Marriage Builders
Posted By: Jedi_Knight New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/19/12 08:24 PM
Hello,

I am recently divorced father.
I have 3 children.
Posted By: 1stepforward Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/19/12 09:08 PM
Jedi- You could fill in a few details,

I am going to get Buyers,renters, freeloaders, as you suggested.

When was your divorce final?

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/19/12 10:21 PM
July 2012
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/20/12 02:24 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Hello,

I am recently divorced father.
I have 3 children.
What the heck, Jedi? You've been posting here for months! This post sounds like you just wandered onto this website!

What the heck??? At least link your threads (and they are numerous).

???????
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/20/12 02:35 AM
I was recommended to start a thread here.
So that is why I did.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/20/12 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I was recommended to start a thread here.
So that is why I did.
I would suggest you link your story, so other posters know your story.

By the way: HAPPY BIRTHDAY! smile
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/20/12 04:04 PM
On yesterday's radio show Dr Harley cautioned against discussing recoveries from adultery.
He said it is dangerous to bring the past into the present.
Those that are invited speak to seminars, etc are discouraged from doing so.

Does this apply to the Forum?
Are we not bringing the past into the present every time we read a story in infidelity from a recently betrayed spouse?
Does it hinder healing to read the Forum?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/20/12 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
On yesterday's radio show Dr Harley cautioned against discussing recoveries from adultery.
He said it is dangerous to bring the past into the present.
Those that are invited speak to seminars, etc are discouraged from doing so.

Does this apply to the Forum?
Are we not bringing the past into the present every time we read a story in infidelity from a recently betrayed spouse?
Does it hinder healing to read the Forum?
Everyone's healing is different. Some posters are triggered by reading the forums and some are not.

That is why the board tries to keep things all about Marriage Builders and Dr. H's concepts and works. That is why posters strongly urge others not to post information that contradicts Dr. H or from your own agenda.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/20/12 06:58 PM
Does Dr Harley ever talk about sexual education for kids?
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/20/12 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
On yesterday's radio show Dr Harley cautioned against discussing recoveries from adultery.
He said it is dangerous to bring the past into the present.
Those that are invited speak to seminars, etc are discouraged from doing so.

Does this apply to the Forum?
Are we not bringing the past into the present every time we read a story in infidelity from a recently betrayed spouse?
Does it hinder healing to read the Forum?
I caught that too and wondered the same thing about the forums (particularly SAA). I try to stay off that board because it seems to bring back the bad parts of my ww's behavior to my current memory - I don't like how I feel when that happens. Once in a while I'll follow someone from here (or D board) over there, but rarely.

I also think reality is reality and there probably is no escaping the past. Trying to offer insight to someone new to the nightmare of infidelity does give me some sense of satisfaction. There were plenty here who helped me when I was lost afterall.

opt
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/21/12 06:14 AM
Well. I am a single father with custody of 2 girls and a boy.
I've listened to the Dr Laura Slessinger shown in the past and I know she recommended that kids know about sex by an early age.
So I contacted the school ....turns out they no longer have sex Ed.

My 8 year old girl is asking more and more questions about female development so I searched on amazon and bought 2 books:
Before I Was Born by Carolyn Nystrom
And
What's the Big Deal : Why God Cares About Sex by Stan and Brenna Jones.

I read Before I Was Born to my children today (ages 6,8,10) and although it was a little awkward at first I am glad I did. The books are Church based and promote marriage before sex.

Any thoughts or suggestions on sex discussions with kids?

Currently my daughters really don't have a woman they can speak to that is nearby. Their mothers sister has offered to help as much as possible but she is not local. So discussions such as this fall on me for the time being
Posted By: hopefulwife47 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/21/12 12:51 PM
Yes, I do!

For my daughter I bought The Care and Keeping of You http://www.amazon.com/Care-Keeping-American-Girl-Library/dp/1562476661

I gave it to her when she was 9. It is a GREAT book that explains about bras and how their breasts develop, about shaving how and when to do it, about their period and pads and tampons, etc. It has opened up tons of dialogue with us.

She is now 10 and is turning 11 shortly after Christmas. I bought Family Life today's Passport to Purity along with the project pack.

http://www.familylife.com/find-help/key-resources/passport2purity

The idea is that you take your preteen child for a special weekend with you. There is a travel journal for her. There are Cd's that you listen to and assignments she will complete or you will do together. You are also supposed to do some kind of fun activity that she enjoys for the weekend like the zoo or amusement park or sports game. ( Or he, I will say she because I am doing it with my daughter) You also take your child on a date.

I hope that helps.
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/21/12 02:16 PM
I also gave my daughter The Care and Keeping of You.

Great book......and.......just let your daughter know you are willing to discuss such matters with her, uncomfortable that you know that would be, when she is ready to do so and if she has questions.

Tell her you don't have all the answers but will try to do your best.

Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/21/12 02:42 PM
Thanks for this thread JK. I just ordered the suggested books for my kids. I think they sound most appropriate for my 11 yo daughter.

I'm a little behind the 8 ball with 16 yo son. We've talked but I haven't given him any books to read. We have to talk more about sex because he is just recently started showing an interest in girls (particularly one); but I know they are not sexually active yet (I learned how to snoop with my ww).

any suggestions from anyone on conversation starters for the boys?

opt
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/21/12 03:07 PM
I will order the Care and Keeping of You for my daughter.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/22/12 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by optimism
Thanks for this thread JK. I just ordered the suggested books for my kids. I think they sound most appropriate for my 11 yo daughter.

I'm a little behind the 8 ball with 16 yo son. We've talked but I haven't given him any books to read. We have to talk more about sex because he is just recently started showing an interest in girls (particularly one); but I know they are not sexually active yet (I learned how to snoop with my ww).

any suggestions from anyone on conversation starters for the boys?

opt
opt,

NG has grown children, correct? Were any of them boys? How did she handle it? Just curious.

I just sat down with my DS and started to talk about it. My kids have always been very comfortable with talking with me. They would even bring their friends who couldn't talk with their parents. I always stepped lightly with those because I didn't want to step on anyone's toes.

I told my son "I remember very well what it was like to feel all confused as a teenager about boyfriends/girlfriend relationships and that I wanted to help him and answer any questions he had". It always started a great discussion. smile

I think when you feel comfortable and at ease, they will too.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/22/12 02:56 AM
Well tomorrow I'll be spending Thanksgiving at the bowling Alley!

Our church gave us a Turkey and a basket of food as a gift. When it was offered to me, I told the Sunday School director that I am not in dire need of assistance. She replied that they would like to help. She also said they will buy some clothes for the kids for Christmas. Coming from a family that always refused assistance of any kind, I am learning to reprogram how I respond.

I kindly thanked the Church and can see that these people show their care and love for our family and I am appreciative for their generosity. So, I do have a turkey in the fridge. I just dont want to cook it tomorrow and the kids wanted to spend the day at the bowling alley anyways.

Thanksgiving. A holiday where we are thankful. I have much to be thankful for: I live in a free country, my family is clothed, fed and sheltered and I have $20 in my pocket (which is more than what 80% of the world has tonight).
We are healthy. We have a home church and my children know of God and are instructed in His ways daily. I have employment (although sporadic).
We are all healthy.

The last year was a major roller coaster for me. I my wife left me and the kids for another man. But the kids and I are getting through it and God is providing for our needs.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/22/12 03:15 AM
You could always cook the turkey and bring it to the bowling alley to share with the staff who are there?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/22/12 03:31 AM
No. Outside food Is not allowed.
The bowling alley actually sells pizza on thanksgiving.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/23/12 04:18 AM
Well I ended up taking the kids and a neighbor kid to the skating rink.
While skating a kid came up and asked: "is your name Jedi Knight? Do you go to Jedi Church?"
I said Yes, Hi. I talked to the kid a little bit.

Then I saw where he was sitting at a table and I walked up to talk to his parents and just say hello and ask if they attend the Churvh regularly.

The boys mother told me that she met me at the recent Thanksgiving Dinner and her son attends church wed nights and she does when her work schedule permits it.
I turned to the man she was with and said "your son recognized me"
The woman interrupted me and said "oh we are just best friends and that's as far as it goes"

This woman was physically attractive.
I encouraged her to keep attending church and said goodbye.

But I thought, Why would a woman in her thirties choose to have a best friend that is a male?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/23/12 04:27 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well I ended up taking the kids and a neighbor kid to the skating rink.
While skating a kid came up and asked: "is your name Jedi Knight? Do you go to Jedi Church?"
I said Yes, Hi. I talked to the kid a little bit.

Then I saw where he was sitting at a table and I walked up to talk to his parents and just say hello and ask if they attend the Churvh regularly.

The boys mother told me that she met me at the recent Thanksgiving Dinner and her son attends church wed nights and she does when her work schedule permits it.
I turned to the man she was with and said "your son recognized me"
The woman interrupted me and said "oh we are just best friends and that's as far as it goes"

This woman was physically attractive.
I encouraged her to keep attending church and said goodbye.

But I thought, Why would a woman in her thirties choose to have a best friend that is a male?

Maybe he is gay?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/23/12 04:50 AM
Possibly.
Unlikely though because the church is very conservative.
I think more likely, she never learned to develop same sex best friendships.
My ex wife always had "friends" with males.
Until I found MB I was unaware of the inappropriatness.

Posted By: Caracal Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/23/12 11:06 AM
I find this OS friendship an interesting post.

I NEVER had OS friendships during my marriage (and until the D still won't). It just came natural. Maybe through my parents... neither of them had OS friendships.

I do have male colleagues, and always had VERY high boundaries. H always supported these boundaries, and attended work functions. If he ever felt "jealous" I would reassure him by changing my boundaries... not by blaming him for the "jealousy."

I have a male friend who is gay. I still would not go out with him by myself... it is always a group thing. But if divorced... I guess I would. I am not confident though. Maybe this will change once divorced.

I have friends who do not have the same boundaries... and adultery or cheating has been the norm. Repeatedly.

I guess what I am saying... be VERY careful of poor boundaries from women. You sound VERY confident with this, but it always pays to be reinforced by the OS who are impartial to your sitch.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/23/12 02:37 PM
For single parents, here is a link to a printable Medical Consent Form.
I printed a few out, had them notarized and also noted in the form that I have custody of my kids and referenced the Court Order number and Court that issued the Order.
It's recommended to keep one in your glove compartment and with you when you travel.

http://singleparents.about.com/od/healthinsurance/ss/medrelease.htm
Posted By: hopefulwife47 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/23/12 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by Caracal
I find this OS friendship an interesting post.

I NEVER had OS friendships during my marriage (and until the D still won't). It just came natural. Maybe through my parents... neither of them had OS friendships.

All my friends growing up and in college were guys. I never had any close friends who were girls. that is one thing that I miss. I dropped all my friends once I got married because it felt strange, but that means I've never really had any since then. Guys just talk about better stuff. I never liked talking about boys or clothes, so I just didn't have much in common with girls. So I miss having friends.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/24/12 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Hello,

I am recently divorced father.
I have 3 children.
What the heck, Jedi? You've been posting here for months! This post sounds like you just wandered onto this website!

What the heck??? At least link your threads (and they are numerous).

???????

Don't feel bad Jedi, I came here after my wives death in 2009, and after reading all of Dr Hs statements and policies, realized his total wisdom, and the healing power of MB.

Because my wife is passed on, I have no emergency, but this site is surely a healing place, with good people like MBliss, to associate with.

Im gonna assume this is your main thread, and because i have no main thread,(Because I am here to help, not for help in managing a marriage), I can totally understand your position..and that you still can comment, on the toxic relationship problems, that keep coming up in relationships in this time and place in this world.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/26/12 02:09 PM
Well this morning my dd6 wrote a letter to Santa Claus asking mommy to marry me.

In the meantime, she has weekly supervised visitation and she has been making it there on time so far.

I don't see her and I'm glad I don't. I've read other stories about people staying emotionally attached for years after divorce.

I don't know what her problem is. The court ordered her to see a psychologist or psychiatrist if she wants to have shared custody and I wonder if that will ever happen. If she does then I would have to return to plan A which I would dread.

I struggle with the morality of divorce. Whether I should wait for her to end her affair even in divorce. My relatives told me that would be crazy to do. I do feel much better after divorce. Those last few months were a nightmare.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/26/12 03:58 PM
Same dd as previous post for the last month has been very anxious.
Afraid to use the bathroom (I stand outside the door); afraid to be anywhere in the house alone. I have to sleep with her to help her fall asleep every night.
I listened to this old clip

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=00027#

Dr Harley said not to dismiss fears but to try to calm them down.
I am going to call the child counselor about this because after listening to this I can see she does need some help.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/28/12 02:13 AM
Well I took kids to the counselor today.
She thinks they are all doing well.
She said in her experience the behavior of dd6 is typical of children of divorce.

She did say she felt I was doing a great job as a single parent!
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/28/12 03:59 AM
I have had very similar issues with my kids. Just kept trying different things. Came up with "surprise dreams", I grasp my hands together and they start shaking all about, then they close their eyes, then I blow through my hands onto their faces, and they receive their surprise dream. The surprise "works" if they stay in their beds.

Their Grandparents sent them Dream lights (pillow pets with night lights inside) for their birthdays...that seems to help.

Have her sing songs when she is in the bathroom or at bedtime. We sing "you are my sunshine, my only sunshine" alot in my house.

With her being 6, she should be able to read some very simple books at bedtime, have her read a page or sentence (to build up confidence) and then you get a turn.

Just some ideas....my kids are around the same age as yours.

It was great that the counselor gave you some positive affirmation as a parent.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/28/12 04:12 AM
Thanks.
We have a pet pillow and she really likes it.

We do read every night.
We have prayer time and reading time in bed.

She just seems extra scared lately.
It doesn't help that sometimes her older siblings may tease her.

The counselor was a big help. Because she talked to dd about the new fear of being in the bathroom alone. Older sister saw a spider weeks ago and it terrified dd6.
She asked dd6 to draw a picture of going to the bathroom and there was a big spider in her drawing.
After the counseling we went to visit Santa Claus and when we got home she had to use the bathroom. She asked me to look for spiders (I looked with her); didn't find any and she said she could go to the bathroom alone and I didn't even need to stand by the door!
So counselor really helped a lot today
Posted By: life2short Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/28/12 12:10 PM
Jedi_Knight,
Sorry you're having to go through this. Sounds like you're a wonderful dad. Single parenthood isn't easy especially when the kids are little.
Just happened to see your thread here so this post will be old, but we have a local catholic hospital that teaches classes to young girls. They have two - one is "on being a girl" and that's for young girls 9-12. The second is "the birds, the bees, and me" and that's for 12-15. Not sure if there would be a similar organization where you are, but it was very helpful for my daughter. Of course, you being a guy might not want to sit in a room full of girls and women!!!! - but it explained everything correctly, but also in a religious perspective about how special our bodies are, etc.
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/28/12 01:44 PM
Quote
After the counseling we went to visit Santa Claus and when we got home she had to use the bathroom. She asked me to look for spiders (I looked with her); didn't find any and she said she could go to the bathroom alone and I didn't even need to stand by the door!
So counselor really helped a lot today

Don't kid yourself: you helped more than anyone by validating her anxiety and going through the process of looking for spiders WITH her. You were her knight in shining armour! smile

opt
Posted By: life2short Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/28/12 11:28 PM
Little girls have such a special relationship with their dad. It's amazing how true it is and how many times I've seen it played out that girls grow up to marry a man just like their father. So, you have a great opportunity to show your daughters what real men are like and what qualities they should look for.
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/29/12 01:29 AM
Originally Posted by life2short
Little girls have such a special relationship with their dad. It's amazing how true it is and how many times I've seen it played out that girls grow up to marry a man just like their father. So, you have a great opportunity to show your daughters what real men are like and what qualities they should look for.
Amen
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/29/12 02:06 AM
Originally Posted by life2short
Little girls have such a special relationship with their dad. It's amazing how true it is and how many times I've seen it played out that girls grow up to marry a man just like their father. So, you have a great opportunity to show your daughters what real men are like and what qualities they should look for.

Wow, so my daughter, whom I have always been close to, has picked out a great man in her life, and all those similarities I have noticed, were because of my relationship with her?


Not really a surprise guys, because as parents, we are responsible to set an example, and as human beings, we are also responsible.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/03/12 03:29 AM
Well my kids had a big production at church today and they all did great.
During the supervised visitation after church, I usually go and run 4 miles. Well I had to pay a bill at the YMCA when I went in to pay it I found myself attracted to the lady on duty.

When I left, I thought "she's really cute" and I thought about human attractions.
In BRF Dr Harley wrote about natural attractions and how people are naturally attracted to each other.

At the same time, I thought about how nice it would be in bed with this complete stranger and I remember a Dr Harley show where he mentioned that Socrates appreciated elder years because he no longer had a sex drive.

The sex drive is hard to suppress at times and I think of those monks that take vows of chastity and fight their emotions on an hour by hour basis.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/03/12 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
At the same time, I thought about how nice it would be in bed with this complete stranger and I remember a Dr Harley show where he mentioned that Socrates appreciated elder years because he no longer had a sex drive.

The sex drive is hard to suppress at times and I think of those monks that take vows of chastity and fight their emotions on an hour by hour basis.

Lol, I remember when my sex drive was active, and I had one heck of one...

But I never cheated, wasn't even tempted to,(Well of course THATS a lie, there was always temptation). But seriuosly the mental and emotional health of my family, was always more important.

It is gone now, and has been since my wife got very sick, and then was diagnosed....Nothing can excite me now...it is not like before, when I used to have to keep my thoughts in line sometimes..


Its because of maturity, in the mindset, and I bet it was because also that I put sex into a spiritual union classification, where it belongs anyways. To the guys I know who are like boy dogs..hyuk hyuk yippee! They always respected me for my selfcontrol..

But the mind can be a breeding ground for all kinds of fantasy, and the media, and who you know that has influence in conversation/s, and of course, mixing that with young male hormonal activity, can certainly steer you down the wrong path..

I Imagine those monks, with them also, because of thier desire to remain chaste, mixed with thier imagination, and their hormones...it must have been brutal..

I dont know what Socrites excuse was, maybe it was getting out of the crazy world of human desire, that he was most grateful for
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/04/12 03:04 PM
Should I help the kids make a Christmas gift for ex wife? (their mom)
They see her once a week.
Specifically I want to follow Dr Harley's advice below:

"I understand how you want your children to have a reasonably friendly relationship with their mother. �But under the circumstances, I�d suggest that instead, you create a wall of protection around your children as long as possible because of your wife�s thoroughly uncaring behavior toward them. �Let them know the full truth about her lack of care for them because of her love for another man. �Don�t embellish the story, just give them the facts. �Sooner or later she will probably try to restore her relationship with them through you, perhaps in the hope that she would receive some kind of financial support from you or the state if she were to have partial custody. �But I would let them know that not every mother loves or knows how to care for her children. �Sadly, their mother is probably one of these people. �Plan B is probably the best way to create that wall of protection."

Any thoughts?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/04/12 03:08 PM
Interestingly she never has picked up the car from the auto shop
It's still in the parking lot.
More than a month ago her atty mailed me a letter demanding new tires.
But the mechanic said it is operable.
I'm shocked she hasn't picked it up. It's been months.
Posted By: Pineneedle Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/04/12 05:53 PM
Yes, have them make a gift for mom, you do that for the kids.

Who cares about the car?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/05/12 08:32 PM
Last night, at bedtime my youngest (consistently for the past few weeks) started crying and said she misses mommy.
She said it is all my fault because I made grandma leave and that mommy left because she was afraid I would call her a name.

I replied that mommy left because she wanted to be with OM.
He asked, "so she would leave her own child for him?"
And i answered yes. She left us for him.
I said it is not your fault or your brother or sister fault. You are all good children. And I love you and Jesus loves you and you can know that Jesus said He will never leave us.
I then told her about the prophet when the king sent an army to get him and the prophets servant was terrified as he saw this Army approaching while The prophet didnt seem worried at all. Then God opened the Servants eyes and he saw an army of Angels surrounding the two of them.
I told my daughter that His Angels are always with us even when we think we are alone.

She seemed more peaceful then and went to sleep.

I have listened to many Radio Shows in the past few weeks and it seems to be Dr Harley's philosophy to remain married if at all possible if it is in the best interest f the kids.
I think even if my ex wife would have ended the affair I would have been condemned to a life of unhappy marriage. Dr Harley mentioned a couple with a depressed wife that he was able to help keep married, although not happily married.
So It seems I may be happier divorced than even if she had ended the affair.

Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/05/12 09:29 PM
I have listened to many Radio Shows in the past few weeks and it seems to be Dr Harley's philosophy to remain married if at all possible if it is in the best interest f the kids.
I think even if my ex wife would have ended the affair I would have been condemned to a life of unhappy marriage. Dr Harley mentioned a couple with a depressed wife that he was able to help keep married, although not happily married.

This was a puzzling call (today's broadcast, no?). And, sorry but the fellow didn't speak very good English. I got the impression that Dr. H would have preferred to have them get into the MB program but the depression issue was a real hinderance; and she was also involved with another man...

Ultimately, you, JK, have made the best decision for you and your kids and are doing well to make the best of a bad situation.

opt
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/12 06:03 AM
Well then I guess I did the right thing, staying married to my aldultrous drug abusing wife for the children sake..

It is true that they are doing alright, and have adjusted after her death..although I am having a hard time getting past it, all things considered.

I made her the focus of my life, and the reason I existed even, to keep her alive..

Although that nightmare was something anyone would do without, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone, having my children suffer would have been far worse IMO.

Another thing I know Dr H got right, you do it for the children
Posted By: JenniferVoyager Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/12 07:07 PM
JK, I wouldn't worry about making presents for your ex...are the kids making them at school? Or do they have a santa's workshop at school where the kids can buy inexpensive gifts? If so, give them some money to buy for whoever they want.

I'm with you on the sex drive and since I'm still married, I'm careful to note any of those strong attractions and keep my EPs in place. I'm not totally sure how I'll handle it after the divorce is finalized because I'm committed to not having any more relationships that involve my kids.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/07/12 07:53 PM
Originally Posted by AskMe
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I look at the sins Paul describes and I see myself in all of them.
Our hearts truly are desperately wicked and only by the grace of God are we saved.

AskMe, what is your opinion of divorce (based on Scripture)?
If a man divorces his wife because she commits sexual adultery is divorce justified?
Can the man remarry?
When you get a chance can you read this commentary and let me know your thoughts?
I am recently divorced and would appreciate your views.

http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/joined/joined_contents.html


Let's see if I can make this into a devotion about marriage and divorce.

Genesis 2:22-24
Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, ' for she was taken out of man." For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.

We know from the point of God that He intended for a man and woman to unite together. They were to be an independent unit away from the homes of their parents. They were to create a family and care for that family.

Matthew 19:4-6
"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

Jesus reiterated this message that man and woman would join together as one couple, as one body and as one of thoughts. Jesus tells us this is a covenant under God made between man and woman and they should not to break this covenant.

Marriage was not to be taken lightly and neither was divorce. Jesus said that God didn't intend for divorce, but allowed it under Mosaic law. The intent was marry, stay married and stay faithful to one another.

Matthew 18:7-9
�Then why did Moses say in the law that a man could give his wife a written notice of divorce and send her away?� they asked. Jesus replied, �Moses permitted divorce only as a concession to your hard hearts, but it was not what God had originally intended. And I tell you this, whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else commits adultery�unless his wife has been unfaithful.

So again we see Jesus reaffirming the covenant of marriage. Hard hearts is why Moses mediated with God for divorce. Divorce was not in God's plan, neither were multiple marriages or multiple spouses. I know there are a few others in The Bible, but Job always comes to mind as the one faithful person who had one spouse and remained faithful to her even through all the pain and suffering he endured.

Hebrews 13:4-7
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, "Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you." So we say with confidence, "The Lord is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?" Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.

God intended marriage and sex to go together. Couples should be able to enjoy each other freely without sin. It bothers me when people try to make sex something dirty because it should be a lovely experience shared between two people who mutually agree on what they are doing. The reason I believe some families try to make it dirty is to prevent promiscuous behavior in their children, which is wrong. Honesty about subjects at a level appropriate for a child's age is always the best answer.

1 Corinthians 7:1-16
Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife. To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Again we see that sex within marriage is a good thing. For those who have a strong desire for sex that need can be fulfilled within marriage. I want to emphasize the part about mutual consent. Sex should be treated respectfully between each other, never making the other person an object to be used. We also find there are some who can be happy as a single person. There is nothing wrong with being single and is an honorable thing if one remains so. We also see the problems unlike beliefs can create between husband and wife and for their children. It is why it is so important a Christian person desires a Christian spouse. It's not that two people cannot be married and have different beliefs, but there will be issues that have to be resolved. The verse also reminds us of the importance of marriage to one another and that through one's faith in Christ an unbelieving spouse may also find Christ.

There was a question about remarrying when divorce occurs. I knew a couple that divorced over matters related to sex. They had two children and this is where I think a verse from Malachi is important. Malachi 2:16 from the NLT translation says, "For I hate divorce!" says the LORD, the God of Israel. "To divorce your wife is to overwhelm her with cruelty," says the LORD of Heaven's Armies. "So guard your heart; do not be unfaithful to your wife." The wife was left with the children and the children also suffered because the father was not always there. Well several years passed and neither remarried. The wife became ill and needed help with the children. The husband who had been working on his issues moved back in to help with their kids. The husband slept separately from the wife for over a year, helping, caring and providing. The wife saw the change in her husband and decided she wanted to reconcile. They worked together through counseling and found the hope they looked for. They are happily remarried at this time. Praise God.

So I think as long as there is a possibility for reconciliation a Christian should hold out to see if remarrying might be a possibility. But once the other spouse has remarried that hope is gone and I see no issue with remarrying.

There are other reasons for divorce such as safety of the family. My mother divorced my father because he was an abusive alcoholic. His ways never changed. Had she remained married to him I believe the results could have been terrible. He tried to shoot her, tried to run her over with a car, tried to stab her, but fortunately he was always too drunk to succeed. For the safety of the family there are times when divorce is necessary. My father remained an alcoholic the rest of his life. I only saw him for 5 minutes when I was 10 years old and he was drunk and my mom told him to leave and that was the last time I saw him until I attended his funeral. My mom's mistake was in marrying someone who was not a Christian and who she did not know much about.

One final word on all of this. Divorce impacts live, especially if children are evolved. Divorce should never be taken lightly and marriage should be done with a thought of commitment. However,we should remember there is no sin that cannot be forgiven by God except for the rejection of the Holy Spirit, which means a person rejects God's salvation through Christ. So no matter what has taken place there is always forgiveness from God. God would like us all to live perfect and holy lives, but He knows we can't do it. So God gave us Jesus so that when we fail there is mercy and grace.

I'm sure others may want to comment and I always welcome another's opinion.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/09/12 08:09 PM
Copy of email sent to visitation supervisor:

When I picked up my kids today they immediately asked me if mommy can spend Christmas with us.�
DS and DD both said that Ex ww told them to have me text her and it was my decision.�

I assume that this is a common issue in visitation and divorce/ custody issues.�

It is frustrating for me because I become portrayed as the bad daddy that won't let mommy come home for Christmas.�

Do you have any ideas on how we can ensure that my children are not used as messengers?
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 02:00 AM
More than likely the supervisor will talk with xww about inappropriate comments to the children, (however the supervisor should have already nipped this in the bud during the supervised visitation)......not that her behavior will change or that she will listen. Do you get a transcript of thw supervised visitation?

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 02:03 AM
No.
The supervisor looks in the room every 30 minutes
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 02:19 AM
Ummmmmm.......that sounds more like limited supervised visitation......is that what your state considered supervised visitation? What about having the supervised viaitation done at a different location or at least have someone in the room to watch for appropriate/inappropriate comments.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by Logans_Run
Ummmmmm.......that sounds more like limited supervised visitation......is that what your state considered supervised visitation? What about having the supervised viaitation done at a different location or at least have someone in the room to watch for appropriate/inappropriate comments.

ITA..

Your kids minds should not be bent by WW without WW being corrected..

This should be addressed somehow Jedi..
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 03:39 AM
This is what the court ordered.
The visitation is supervised by the County Visitation Center, part of the Court.
I have no control over the level of supervision The Court ordered.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 03:41 AM
This is what the visitation levels are.
My ex wife is level 3:


During Supervised Visitation, a monitor observes the interactions between the child and both parents and documents those interactions.��

The Visitation Center has 3 levels of monitoring:��

���� Level 1 - a monitor is in the visit room at all times observing and documenting the interactions between the child(ren) and visiting party;�

���� Level 2 - a monitor observes the interactions every ten minutes and documents what they observe;�

���� Level 3 - a monitor observes the interactions every thirty minutes and documents what they observe.��

All conversation and behavior is monitored at all times no matter what the level of the visit.�

Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 04:07 AM
OK so they must have a recorder running if it as level 3

So your lawyer and/or childrens counselor or both, should address the court about this. Maybe bring it to level 1.

Daddy should not be made out to be the bad guy..That is manipulation.

If it is possible to prove in court that she does this..I see no problem in implementing level 1 visitation. You will need testimony and proof though.

Possibly the childrens testimony via their counselor will do, if they are so empowered.

Maybe affidavits..

Find out what your state requires by law for the children from your Lawyer

That sucks I know

Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 04:09 AM
Then maybe she will stop it and receive some help in dealing with little childrens hearts
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 06:09 AM
I think she says it to frustrate me.
She specifically told the kids to have me text her.
Yet she knows That she was blocked from texting me and that I only communicate through a designated email address.

In the meantime I have been reading Buyers Renters Freeloaders and learned that we were both renters. I may have been a buyer. I would not leave the marriage due to religious reasons.

But she did leave at least 2 other times before her affair. And came back.
During the affair she downgraded to freeloader.

It's really a good book to read.

Is there a reason why she would be trying to communicate this through the kids?
Is she upset about limited contact?

My gut feeling is That she will be knocking on the door after her boyfriend beats her up. As I read the book, I wonder if she is trying to go back into a renter relationship with me and trying to use the kids for that.

Dr Harley explains that freeloaders have a dismal relationship future in life. And renters are full of strife but they get some needs met.
Her taker must remember the plan a where I kissed her cheating [censored] and desire that as her freeloader affair partner refuses to meet her needs.

Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 07:31 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I think she says it to frustrate me.
She specifically told the kids to have me text her.
Yet she knows That she was blocked from texting me and that I only communicate through a designated email address.

In the meantime I have been reading Buyers Renters Freeloaders and learned that we were both renters. I may have been a buyer. I would not leave the marriage due to religious reasons.

But she did leave at least 2 other times before her affair. And came back.
During the affair she downgraded to freeloader.

It's really a good book to read.

Is there a reason why she would be trying to communicate this through the kids?
Is she upset about limited contact?

My gut feeling is That she will be knocking on the door after her boyfriend beats her up. As I read the book, I wonder if she is trying to go back into a renter relationship with me and trying to use the kids for that.

Dr Harley explains that freeloaders have a dismal relationship future in life. And renters are full of strife but they get some needs met.
Her taker must remember the plan a where I kissed her cheating [censored] and desire that as her freeloader affair partner refuses to meet her needs.

Loaded post, will answer tommorow, if nobody else does first

Had a long post and I lost it somehow Sir.

Mainly though it was saying how it sounds like she is still trying to cake-eat, and drink from the never-ending well of the Jedi

It also sounds like she has a drug problem..because..if her boyfriend slaps her around...Sorry if I am off with that, just been my experience, with the wimps of this world..

A Lot of speculation sorry. Talk to you tommorow
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 01:04 PM
I suspect possible drug use.
The boyfriend has a serious criminal history involving drugs.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Copy of email sent to visitation supervisor:

When I picked up my kids today they immediately asked me if mommy can spend Christmas with us.�
DS and DD both said that Ex ww told them to have me text her and it was my decision.�

I assume that this is a common issue in visitation and divorce/ custody issues.�

It is frustrating for me because I become portrayed as the bad daddy that won't let mommy come home for Christmas.�

Do you have any ideas on how we can ensure that my children are not used as messengers?

Response received:


We will speak with EX WW concerning conversation such as this.� If she did say this, it is inappropriate.� It does happen especially during this time of the year.� I appreciate the manner in which you informed us.
Posted By: Qoheleth Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/12 04:39 PM
Jedi,

Thanks for posting in my thread. I just finished reading your thread and I'm really impressed with how you are handling all of this. Keep up the good work.
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 01:35 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
This woman was physically attractive.
I encouraged her to keep attending church and said goodbye.

But I thought, Why would a woman in her thirties choose to have a best friend that is a male?
Why not? Maybe she is divorced, maybe she is a widow.
Maybe they run a business together or a charity with consent of their spouses.
Maybe they are having an affaire.

The first thing you notice when meeting these ppl is the womans physicals, perfectly normal.
Next you seem to WANT to judge their relationship as either proper or improper, although you have no real evidence to support either theory.
The woman communicates with you that its ok to approach.
Why do you feel the need to assess their relationship further, before having a deeper conversation with them both?

As for the advice of the Dr. Is there a possibility to relocate your family away from their mother?
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 02:08 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Specifically I want to follow Dr Harley's advice below:

"I understand how you want your children to have a reasonably friendly relationship with their mother. �But under the circumstances, I�d suggest that instead, you create a wall of protection around your children as long as possible because of your wife�s thoroughly uncaring behavior toward them. �Let them know the full truth about her lack of care for them because of her love for another man. �Don�t embellish the story, just give them the facts. �Sooner or later she will probably try to restore her relationship with them through you, perhaps in the hope that she would receive some kind of financial support from you or the state if she were to have partial custody. �But I would let them know that not every mother loves or knows how to care for her children. �Sadly, their mother is probably one of these people. �Plan B is probably the best way to create that wall of protection."

Any thoughts?
BPD Central. For friends and family of people who are living with a personality disorder. Their
support group is amazing
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 02:39 AM
Originally Posted by geroldmodel
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
This woman was physically attractive.
I encouraged her to keep attending church and said goodbye.

But I thought, Why would a woman in her thirties choose to have a best friend that is a male?
Why not? Maybe she is divorced, maybe she is a widow.
Maybe they run a business together or a charity with consent of their spouses.
Maybe they are having an affaire.

The first thing you notice when meeting these ppl is the womans physicals, perfectly normal.
Next you seem to WANT to judge their relationship as either proper or improper, although you have no real evidence to support either theory.
The woman communicates with you that its ok to approach.
Why do you feel the need to assess their relationship further, before having a deeper conversation with them both?

As for the advice of the Dr. Is there a possibility to relocate your family away from their mother?

In the past I would not even think about relationship dynamics.
But after listening to the Radio Show daily, I understand how messed up people are and I find myself classifying people as buyers renters or freeloaders
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 03:14 AM
[quote=geroldmodelBPD Central. For friends and family of people who are living with a personality disorder. Their
support group is amazing
[/quote]

My ex wifes sister told me that she thought ww had BPD.
The SIL does have an education in psychology.
However.
dr Harley said on the Radio Show that if the person does not attempt suicide then there is no BPD.
After listening to several radio clips, and reading about "Electric Fence" in Buyers Renters Freeloaders book, that describes my ex wife.
A couple posters, including Melody Lane have posted that they see similarities between my wife and themselves.
So now I wonder: Maybe she could follow the POJA after the affair?
But then I consider Dr Harley who said they usually can't.
So I'm really just completely without direction in this area.

Several have said that she is just in the fog. But she was always out of mainstream.
The story in the book about Beth sitting in the booth is very similar to my ex wife.

Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 11:39 AM
Quote
dr Harley said on the Radio Show that if the person does not attempt suicide then there is no BPD.

I think that is a very narrow definition of BPD actually.
It is correct from a psychiatric-point of view though.

Only low-functioning BPD's end op in psych-wards because of attempted suicide. They will be diagnosed with BPD there.

High-functioning BPD's do not end up in psych-wards, but the damage they do to their "partners & family" is just as bad.
They will NEVER be diagnosed.

You dismiss the opinion of HER OWN SISTER, who is a PSYCHOLOGIST and has known your wife for her ENTIRE life.

Dr. Harley does not known your wife but TELLS YOU TO PROTECT YOURSELF & YOUR CHILDREN FROM THIS WOMEN.

First thing you do is:
1) Dismiss your SIL's opinion: namely your wife is suffering from a personality disorder. You do this by QUOTING Dr. Harley.

2) You ALLOW your wife access to your children in contrary of what Dr. Harley says you should do.
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 12:33 PM
Quote
After listening to several radio clips, and reading about "Electric Fence" in Buyers Renters Freeloaders book, that describes my ex wife.

I have read that book too.
Dr. Harley uses "Electric Fence"-personality as a laymans term for a series of disorders: Anxiety, Depression, Obsession etc.
All these "issues" can be overcome with therapy.

Personality disorders however, cannot be overcome with therapy.

Quote
dr Harley said on the Radio Show that if the person does not attempt suicide then there is no BPD.

I think that is a very narrow definition of BPD actually.
It is correct from a psychiatric-point of view though.

Only low-functioning BPD's end op in psych-wards because of attempted suicide. They will be diagnosed with BPD there.

High-functioning BPD's do not end up in psych-wards, but the damage they do to their "partners & family" is just as bad.
They will NEVER be diagnosed.

You dismiss the opinion of HER OWN SISTER, who is a PSYCHOLOGIST and has known your wife for her ENTIRE life.

Dr. Harley does not known your wife but TELLS YOU TO PROTECT YOURSELF & YOUR CHILDREN FROM THIS WOMEN. He does not say these things to "electric fense" cases, does he?
He is pretty serious!

First thing you do is:
1) Dismiss your SIL's EDUCATED opinion: namely your wife is suffering from a personality disorder. You do this by QUOTING Dr. Harley.

2) Then you ALLOW your wife access to your children in contrary of what Dr. Harley says you should do.

You can downplay your wife disorder in your own head, but that does not it make ANY LESS REAL, JEDI

Listen to your SIL.
Do what the Dr. adviced you PERSONALLY.
And visit:
http://bpdfamily.com/message_board/
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 02:26 PM
Wait.
I don't allow my wife access to my children.
I followed Dr Harley's advice and I have full custody. She has supervised visitation. That is ordered by the court. I dont have control over what the court orders.

Dr Harley also said in a radio call that a BPD would not end a relationship. They cling to it.

What confuses me is the following:

I have read love cycle of a BPD.
My wife and I met and she basically just moved in with me 2 weeks after meeting me. She was 6 years older than me and I thought I was "in love".
2 months later I asked her to marry me.
But a month later, when she left for a week to visit her sister I had time to think and I decided I didn't want to marry her. Everything was happening too fast.

I resolved to break it off. But then she called and said she was pregnant.
I had been taught responsibility. I made a baby so I had to marry her.

(I'll continue this later. I would like opinions because her affair will eventually die and I don't know how to respond when it does. If I should consider trying to win her back or remain in plan B indefinitely. She has caused a lot of pain to my children that makes me angry. )
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 03:12 PM
Gerald.
I just went to the BPD message board and registered.
There was a member there involved in an affair with a married woman and he was getting hugs and support because he thinks she has BPD.
I was the only one that posted to him that his affair is morally wrong and that he is a homewrecker.
I can't be around people that support adultery like those board members do
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 04:03 PM
Quote
I can't be around people that support adultery like those board members do
They do not support adultery on that board!

The main focus on that forum is dealing with BPD from a friends & partners perspective. It is not MB! Nor does that forum JUDGE people on the nature of the relationship with the BPD.

It is a place DESIGNED to deal with the effects of a toxic relationship: Even affairee's can be victims of a personality disordered OP. They deal with that FIRST. The part the "victim" played, will be discussed in a later face once the "victim" is out of the FOG.

Learn what you can Jedi, save the relationship-morality for this board.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 04:09 PM
Thanks for the suggestion but I can't watch people on that board pat affair partners on the back because they are having an affair with someone with a personality disorder.
I made 3 posts in that forum and told them adultery is morally wrong and I won't make any more. I was shocked at all the adultery cases there.

It is my belief that God and His laws must come first.
These people should not be commiting adultery.
And a lot of the behavior they are self diagnosing as BPD sounds like common affair fog.
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 04:12 PM

Quote
Dr Harley also said in a radio call that a BPD would not end a relationship. They cling to it.

True, but a bit more nuance is in it's place here.
One of the personality traits of a BPD is;

FEAR OF ABANDONMENT

another one that is NOT described in the DSM IV medical guide as it is only apparent witin a relationship is:

THE PUSH & PULL CYCLE
http://www.downwardspiralintothevortex.com/2012/03/push-me-pull-you-push-pull-cycle.html

Rings a bell?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 04:16 PM
Also Dr Harley does not say Electric Fence can be overcome with therapy.
He consistently says that personalities cannot be changed.
I avoided that fence by moving and having mold inspections done, not having the kids vaccinated etc.
But dr Harley says that safety and health are exceptions to his rules and when I got the kids vaccinated and checkups....,huge love buster for my wife. I was on the electric fence.

My kids are probably better off with divorced parents for a more normal childhood anyway.
They were starting to develop the same fears as my wife, with foods and doctors and school.
Now, they are integrated into social circles!
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Wait.
I don't allow my wife access to my children.
I followed Dr Harley's advice and I have full custody. She has supervised visitation. That is ordered by the court. I dont have control over what the court orders.

OK, I am European and not so familiar with USA-court casess.
The Judge ordered she has supervised visitation, but you feel the 30 minute intervals are not safe enough for your kids right?

If you move to another state, she will still have the LEGAL opportunity for visitation & you will not be in contempt with court, right?
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 04:22 PM
Quote
He consistently says that personalities cannot be changed.
Change personalities? That is indeed impossible.
BUT as you know you CAN CHANGE BEHAVIOUR.

Depression, Anxiety & Obsession can be repressed with Behavioural Psychotherapy.
Personality Disorders cannot.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 04:31 PM
Originally Posted by geroldmodel
Quote
Dr Harley also said in a radio call that a BPD would not end a relationship. They cling to it.

True, but a bit more nuance is in it's place here.
One of the personality traits of a BPD is;

FEAR OF ABANDONMENT

another one that is NOT described in the DSM IV medical guide as it is only apparent witin a relationship is:

THE PUSH & PULL CYCLE
http://www.downwardspiralintothevortex.com/2012/03/push-me-pull-you-push-pull-cycle.html

Rings a bell?

I read the article.
But the thing is. My wife left us for her affair partner. She said she was don't being a mom and wife and loved om.
She is also the adult child of an alcoholic and that is also a trait : fear of abandonment

The love Cycle of bpd describes us well.
She had mystery Illnesses starting in the second year of our marriage. Doctors couldn't find any problems.

Weird phobias.

She has never been able to keep a job.

If not for the affair I think I could have learned to live within her fence.
But I would still of had to make
Unilateral decisions for safety and health which would have continually placed the marriage at risk.
On the flip side there are posters that say they have similar personalities and have been able to adopt MB programs. So i really don't know what to think
Posted By: SugarCane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by geroldmodel
One of the personality traits of a BPD is;
gerold - what do you mean by BPD?

Jedi, what do you mean by it?

Are you two talking about the same condition? BPD is used as an acronym for two separate and distinct conditions.
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 07:01 PM
BPD = Borderline Personality Disorder as desribed by the
Official American Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders

Quote
Borderline Personality Disorder DSM IV Criteria

A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

2. a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

3. identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

4. impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.

5. recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

6. affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood
(e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).
7. chronic feelings of emptiness

8. inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

9. transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

The DSM IV goes on to say:

The essential feature of Borderline Personality Disorder is a pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity that begins by early adulthood and is present in a variety of contexts.

Individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder make frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment (Criterion 1). The perception of impending separation or rejection, or the loss of external structure, can lead to profound changes in self-image, affect, cognition, and behavior. These individuals are very sensitive to environmental circumstances. They experience intense abandonment fears and inappropriate anger even when faced with a realistic time-limited separation or when there are unavoidable changes in plans (e.g. sudden despair in reaction to a clinician�s announcing the end of the hour; panic of fury when someone important to them is just a few minutes late or must cancel an appointment). They may believe that this "abandonment" implies they are "bad." These abandonment fears are related to an intolerance of being alone and a need to have other people with them. Their frantic efforts to avoid abandonment may include impulsive actions such as self-mutilating or suicidal behaviors, which are described separately in Criterion 5.

All of it found here (and all over the web)
http://www.borderlinepersonalitytoday.com/main/dsmiv.htm

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 07:13 PM
And my wife never mutilated herself or threatened suicide.
After listening to Dr Harley, I really think the "electric fence" describes her, except for the mystery illnesses and depression. I don't know if she was depressed but she would sleep on the couch all day.
And the food issues. But Melody actively follows the program and she said she has all of these issues so maybe my wife could.

Somehow she would have to get over the fears she has.

I really don't know.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by geroldmodel
BPD = Borderline Personality Disorder as desribed by the
Official American Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders
Is this what you mean by BPD, Jedi?
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 07:26 PM
That said: none of us on the internet can diagnose, neither can you Jedi.

Your SIL who is a psychologist & knows this person probably better than anyone on this planet. She says TO YOU her sister has been suffering from BPD...

Dr. H cannot make that diagnosis, he has never seen or spoken to your wife. But he says "Keep her away from you and your children!"
Which is exactly THE SAME what you should do if your X was diagnosed with BPD

It is up to you to verify if your SIL might be correct.
You have lived with this women for a huge part of your life, you know her too to some extend.

There is no such thing as having "enough" information if your childrens future is at stake.

You do not like to be confronted with cheaters on a forum who get a hug. I understand. I would not like to be in that situation either right now.
BUT
You are not on that forum TO HELP other people!
You are there to EDUCATE yourself, remember?

Safe the help for MB.
You are doing a good job here.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 07:34 PM
I am unaware of any official medical diagnosis

Her sister has a masters degree in psychology but is not licensed.
She has never diagnosed anyone professionally
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 07:43 PM
My ex BPD, did not threaten or try suicide for the 10 years we knew eachother either (18-28)

When she finally DID went into recurring suicide threat-mode, I had a very good talk with her sister who recollected "Enacted suicide rituals" from when my ex was 8 years old...

This is stuff you want to keep you and your children away from if this COULD BE the case.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 08:15 PM
There was something in her behavior or medical records that enabled me to get full custody.
I don't know what it was.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 10:35 PM
Gerald.
I looked at that board again and it is FULL of adultery.
Those people receive terrible advice on ending affairs and they seem to cater to affair partners.

I've never seen so much adultery excused.
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 10:55 PM
You are 100% correct Jedi.
There are not too many DE-FOGGED people who get into a relationship with someone who is suffering from a personality disorder... unless they were obliged or committed in some way or another.
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/12 10:57 PM
Have you read the articles on the main-site?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/12/12 03:05 AM
My 25 year old neighbor talked with me today.
He was recently discharged from the Army and married with a 1 year old baby.

He told me that he was having "marriage problems".
I suggested he visit marriage builders website and briefly explained how in my experience, marriage counseling doesn't work.
He also told me that a few months ago he and his wife were separated and she met someone on Facebook and "kissed" him but it didn't go further.
I again suggested he visit marriagebuilders and said that in my experience affairs start from poor boundaries around the opposite sex.

He told me he would look at the website. He sounded like he really needed help and his wife was driving the marriage boat.

He also mentioned time. They are together all the time and he said too much time together is bad.
I replied that it isn't bad. I explained that he and his wife need to spend 20 hours a week together without the baby. He said they never time without the baby. I told him he needs to get a babysitter tomorrow.

(I really wasn't asking him questions, he just opened up to me. I think he just needed another mans advice).

He told me that sex was consistent and good and couldn't understand why they were having problems. I explained how women's emotional needs differ from a mans and that he is having his needs met but wife isn't.

He asked me, What would we do with all our time together?
I suggested he download the recreational activity worksheet and find common interests.

He sounded very interested.
I hope and pray that he does do that, before it's too late.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/12/12 03:28 AM
I am going to be visiting my SIL and her family in a couple weeks.
Her husband is a psychiatrist. He works for the VA as a psychiatrist.
He knows my wife.
I am going to ask him about his opinion of her.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/12/12 05:13 AM
Gerald,

I lasted half a day on the forum you referenced!
I posted that affairs were wrong and that using a personality order as an excuse is inappropriate and posted info on how to end affairs.

The board mods erased all my posts!
They do encourage adultery!
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/12/12 08:51 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Gerald,
The board mods erased all my posts!
They do encourage adultery!
You tend to jump conclussions Jedi.

Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/12/12 08:42 PM
Is this the infamous OW type forum?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/13/12 02:47 AM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
Is this the infamous OW type forum?

It is full of adultery. OW and OM post stuff like: I'm having an affair with someone that has borderline personality disorder.
The posters reply: I'm really sorry and I feel your pain.

I wrote comments like: Adultery is wrong. You should end this affair immediately.

My comments were deleted by the moderators! Lol
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/13/12 04:42 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I read the article.
But the thing is. My wife left us for her affair partner. She said she was don't being a mom and wife and loved om.
She is also the adult child of an alcoholic and that is also a trait : fear of abandonment

The love Cycle of bpd describes us well.
She had mystery Illnesses starting in the second year of our marriage. Doctors couldn't find any problems.

Weird phobias.


She has never been able to keep a job.

If not for the affair I think I could have learned to live within her fence.
But I would still of had to make
Unilateral decisions for safety and health which would have continually placed the marriage at risk.
On the flip side there are posters that say they have similar personalities and have been able to adopt MB programs. So i really don't know what to think

Have seen this and have been there Jedi.. My late wife also was the child of alcoholics,(both), and adopted many denial and escape avenues.

Bottom line is she able to love..I mean really love..not just act it out..

The program here, puts it to the test, and it shows where peoples heart is.. I am sorry if your wife's heart is messed up..

You know what your heart says..and it is right, and true, or you would not be here to begin with..

"Hope maketh not ashamed" He is a living God my friend
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/13/12 04:58 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by karmasrose
Is this the infamous OW type forum?

It is full of adultery. OW and OM post stuff like: I'm having an affair with someone that has borderline personality disorder.
The posters reply: I'm really sorry and I feel your pain.

I wrote comments like: Adultery is wrong. You should end this affair immediately.

My comments were deleted by the moderators! Lol

Sounds like the patients are in charge of the nuthouse..
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/13/12 10:12 AM
I had a bad dream last night.
In my dream, I was in plan B. My wife had supervised visits with the kids.
We lived in apartment building and the apartment was having a kids parade.
I was watching my kids when all of a sudden, ww was with 2 of the kids. I carefully waited until she was out of sight and could not see me and I went into my apartment.
Then she told the kids to run and play and she followed me into my apartment. She talked to me about her search for a job.
I listened to her and felt like I was in plan A.

Then I stopped listening and said, I'm sorry. I can't speak with you. You chose to go live and talk to OM; you can go talk to him.
I started trying to close the windows and lock the doors.
Then she followed me outside and started cussing at me. "Well I didn't want to. You chose to ignore me our entire marriage and so I didn't have any choice. If I would have known about the f***ing money or job then maybe I would have."

We were now outside of the apartment and I was walking away from her. She was yelling at me but did not follow me.
I quickly hid around the corner.

Then I woke up.
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/13/12 02:01 PM
The saddest thing about divorce for us MBers is that we finally get to a point where we learn what we did wrong and get real clarification on how damaging some of our behaviors were (once the concept of LB'ers is understood). Then we feel we've discovered the code of marriage and want to turn the Ocean Liner around (a monumental task but one with clear instructions written in the pages of Dr. H's books). HOWEVER, we turn to our co-pilot only to find they've already jumped ship.

Now the task becomes getting our mate back in the boat, before any ship righting can begin. Some take the life preserver, and some choose to brave the surf, I guess.

It's hard to watch the mother of your children struggle.

opt
Posted By: JenniferVoyager Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/13/12 06:29 PM
Jedi, HAM has many of those characteristics as well (child of two alcoholics...and alcohol exposed in the womb), hypochondriac, can't hold a job, paranoid...I think there're certainly things that make it easier for someone to turn wayward.

Sorry about your crazy dream...but dont think too much by it. You did what you could, and offered her a second chance at marital happiness.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/14/12 04:48 AM
My DD8 told me she hated OM today, just out of the blue.
She told me she wished she could kill him.
I answered that she has a right to be angry and not like OM but it is inappropriate to talk about killing OM because that breaks one of the 10 commandments.

As usual dd6 was crying at bedtime saying she missed mommy.
I try to comfort her. I say I feel sad sometimes too then I think of something happy.

We have been praying for mommy every night, at the children's nightly request.
I pray that God will apply His word to her heart, to place hedges of protection around her, that she may turn to Him.

Dd8 told me she didn't want to move (we are in foreclosure) and I look forward to a fresh start because dd6 see emotional triggers everywhere. She says, this stuffed animal makes me sad because mommy gave it to me. Etc etc.

I've asked myself lately: what if ww wrote a letter and said, I want to follow your program. That's my emotional side of my brain. My logical side answers, She probably never will and you are trying to seek control.

Logically I know I am better off without her in my life. She has caused so much pain to our family through her selfish actions.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/14/12 05:04 AM
Jedi,

You and your children are in my prayers. pray
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/14/12 05:21 AM
Well at 12 am my dd6 actually pooped her pajamas.
I gave her a quick bath and sung her child gospel songs to sleep.
This is very unusual for her. The price of adultery and divorce
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/14/12 05:22 AM
Thank you Bh
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/14/12 08:38 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well at 12 am my dd6 actually pooped her pajamas.
I gave her a quick bath and sung her child gospel songs to sleep.
This is very unusual for her. The price of adultery and divorce

Yes you can see how traumatic this is on little children

But Daddy is here for her, her Rock..

Praying for you Jedi, you are doing what real men do. Suffer WITH their children, and not leaving them alone.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/15/12 05:32 AM
I watched the Steve Wilkos show on tv tonight and that lady went from crying to anger and screaming and back and forth continually.
Very similar to my ex wife during her affair.
Steve asked her, how can you change emotions so fast?

He uses a lie detector on all the guests to see who is telling the truth
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/16/12 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Steve asked her, how can you change emotions so fast?

They are called "moodswings" and are caused by instability of Affect.

It's another hallmark of BPD.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/12 01:56 AM
Gerald,

I finally stopped accepting my wife's apologies.
She would politely say, "I'm sorry" and I would reply "I dont accept your apology while you have an ongoing affair"
She would then say. Angrily F*** You! I hope you rot in hell!

Then she would storm off and come back 5 minutes later and do it again!

When I went to AlAnon they explained that is a trait of adult children of alcoholics.
It was always hot and cold with her. No lukewarm behavior.
Electric fence, or BPD or acoa...I don't know. I've thought about all the selfish suffering her adultery put us through. But in some ways, it actually helped me become a better man and father.
It certainly saved my kids from a number of paranoid fears. My dad told me last night, as we were talking about signin the kids up for swim lessons and my son is terrified of swimming because my ex wife told him the YMCA allowed a young boy to drown in the pool and sink to the bottom. (I have asked the Y and neighbors and they don't know anything about this. It probably happened far away). My son is terrified of the pool.
My dad told me," She really f***d those kids up. I can see how kids can be brainwashed in a dictatorship"

And he's right. AlAnon taught me that my perception of reality and thinking patterns were also SICK.

I think if I was to consider ever being involved with her again I would have to wait until my kids were grown. Unless she somehow gets partial custody. In that case, Dr Harley recommends I plan A indefinitely.
Te court said she has supervised visitation until she has a residence an a letter from a doctor that she is fit to be with the kids unsupervised.
She has never been able to maintain a job or even apartment and I have heard Dr Harley say that most people with personality disorders can't keep jobs so if she doesn't get help I will be safe.
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/12 02:59 PM
Quote
My dad told me last night, as we were talking about signin the kids up for swim lessons and my son is terrified of swimming because my ex wife told him the YMCA allowed a young boy to drown in the pool and sink to the bottom. (I have asked the Y and neighbors and they don't know anything about this. It probably happened far away). My son is terrified of the pool.


That happened a couple summers ago, I think in my area of the country. It was a city pool, I believe, not necessarily YMCA but perhaps some other community organization.
I would research it a little and assuage your kid's fears with factual information backed up by an assurance that you would never let something like that happen to him. Contrast what happened to what is reality at the pool he's going to and stay the first few times if possible.

When I was a kid my parents had a trip planned to New York. I just happened to see a documenary about gang violence in NY the week before they were to leave. I was terrified. All it took was for my mom to assure me that they would never go to any area where they didn't feel safe.

You're doing great and I don't mean to tell you anything you already know.
smile
Opt
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/12 05:03 PM
I'll research it and discuss it with my son.
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/12 09:40 PM
Framingham Ma, July 2011.

that will get you started.

opt
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/12 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I'll research it and discuss it with my son.
Someone on this board posted he went searching for the spider hand in hand with his daughter. Why not face irrational fears together, father and Sun?

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Electric fence, or BPD or acoa...I don't know. I've thought about all the selfish suffering her adultery put us through. But in some ways, it actually helped me become a better man and father.

Wayward fog on top of subtance abuse on top of childhood trauma. At that stage I wonder anyone could possibly know.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/12 03:15 AM
I spoke with the YMCA employee today, with my son.i explained that my son had some concerns he would like to discuss and we discussed them.
After the lady explained the safety procedures my son seemed satisfied with the explanation.

I agree Gerald wayward "fog", acoa, BPD. One could spend their entire day trying to figure it out, then start over the next day.

I'm trying to just focus on me and the kids.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/12 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I spoke with the YMCA employee today, with my son.i explained that my son had some concerns he would like to discuss and we discussed them.
After the lady explained the safety procedures my son seemed satisfied with the explanation.

I agree Gerald wayward "fog", acoa, BPD. One could spend their entire day trying to figure it out, then start over the next day.

I'm trying to just focus on me and the kids.
Good job Jedi. Way to make your son feel safe and great way to do it.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/12 03:48 AM
Tonight the kids said, Mommy said that you dont have to talk to her if she comes here for Christmas, it would just be for us kids.

I answered that mommy left us for another man and that the court said we need to visit her at the visitation center. My son disagreed and said mommy told him that she can come for Christmas and it was my decision.
I calmly answered and said that I am very sorry that their parents are divorced but that we dont have control over mommys actions.
But we have to follow the court rules and the judge gave mommy a list of things to do so that the kids could be with her more and it is up to her to do them.
I made it clear that I am sad she left to be with another man and she will not be here for Christmas.

They told me that I ruined their Christmas but seemed to calm down within a few minutes.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/12 03:49 AM
I'd bet money that this is what your W was counting on. They won't understand now, but they will later, and they will be thankful to you for it.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/12 04:45 AM
It's frustrating because I am being portrayed as the mean daddy That won't let mommy come home for Christmas.

What worries me is the possibility of her just showing up at the door.
My plan has been and remains to call the police if she does but that would be traumatic for the kids.
Posted By: Pineneedle Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/12 10:49 AM
Good job for not retaliating with anger towards your kids. They will understand one day!
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/12 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
It's frustrating because I am being portrayed as the mean daddy That won't let mommy come home for Christmas.

What worries me is the possibility of her just showing up at the door.
My plan has been and remains to call the police if she does but that would be traumatic for the kids.

This is tough Jedi I know..WW does not have a sign hanging around her neck that says "BPD", or one that explains to the kids that she needs help, and has a sickness..

All you can do is be kind and within the law, about how you treat her, and not let it get to you..

The children will understand eventually, and applaud your patience sir, as we do..
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/12 08:03 PM
Well I don't know if she actually is mentally ill.
Because numerous posters have pointed out that they had similar issues but decided to follow Dr Harleys program and have done so successfully.


I've thought about this a lot. She was severely neglected by me. I dedicated all of my energy into work.
If I would have shown more care for her, who knows where we would be today.
The flip side is that I also would of had to be responsible and make some unilateral decisions regarding health and safety; when Children Services investigated our family they insisted that the children be seen by dentists and medical doctors. That would have created Love Busters for my wife.

I am very sorry for the neglect I committed against our marriage and before she left I did apologize to her.

Logically I need to focus on my children and our future together. But these days are difficult; when someone leaves they leave their footprints all over the house and its full of memories.

I really look forward to foreclosure so I can move and start over with the kids
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/12 10:50 PM
Question:
Dr Hatley says a woman can get sick if she does plan A got more than 3 to 6 weeks.
Did I make my ex wife sick though neglect? Physically and or mentally?
Posted By: ak1 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/12 01:25 AM
I wrestle with this too. My wife shows serious signs of BPD (creating drama, needs to be the center of attention, doesn't value other perspectives if they differ from her own, insecure, seeks male attention to validate herself, extremely controlling, rude, manipulative, double standards, blame shifting, has her own reality/rules, justifies her actions instead of taking responsibility, views herself as faultless, struggles to connect decisions with consequences, is masterful at silent treatment and withdrawal) (no I'm not keeping a list, this is just what comes to mind when I started typing), but then I think about what I put her though. I was controlling, neglectful, disrespectful, judging, black and white, lecturing, and hard.

So what is really going on here? Did my behavior mold my wife into who she is? Probably to some degree, but then again she treated her dad the same way. Does it matter if she recognizes these things and started to make changes? Absolutely. Has she? Not really. In some ways she is better, but is she willing to completely stop and re-evaluate the way she treats people? No.

So I think this is the difference. You and I completely screwed up, did we make our wifes sick? Maybe, but after we recognized what we did and started to change and seek help it was back on our wifes to do the same, but they were stuck.

All we can do is change ourselves and meet our spouses needs, but if they won't allow that because of bitterness, then use that as an excuse for their wayward actions, then the issue is no longer us, but them.

I read a book that put this in the perspective of a co-dependent spouse living with an acoholic. Many times the acoholic will get help, and turn around, but then all of the spouses issues start to sufface because they aren't overshadowed anymore. The spouse refuses to get help or consider change because they couldn't possibly be the problem. The problems can get so great that the marriage fails, then the spouse goes and marries another acoholic.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/12 03:22 AM
Well a letter from ww to the kids was in today's mail.
Along with a couple pictures.
My dd wanted to show me the pictures. I told her that I did not want to see them because they make me sad.
The other 2 kids didn't show much interest.
She wrote that she loves them and that the dog really likes to swim in the lake (OM lives near a lake) and that they can write to her if they want to. She provided her moms address, not OM address.

DS again asked if mommy could come here for Christmas and I answered we have to do what the court said; that mommy just has to do a few things and then the Judge will allow her to spend more time with the kids. DS replied that mommy told him that takes a year to do.

So I don't know If she has started to take steps to meet the requirements. She never finishes anything through from beginning to end (like her alcoholic mother) so I think she is just gas lighting DS.

Dr Harley says that most affairs die within 6 months. Hers has made it a year.
Of those that don't die within 6 months, the rest die within 2 years. Only 5 percent result in marriage and those marriages have a 85% failure rate.
She told me (when she walked out the door) that she should have never gotten married. From reading Buyers Renters Freeloaders I understand she was a freeloader at that point and her Taker was in control.
Now her Giver must be in control to satisfy this boyfriend. He has serious mental health issues and regularly attempts suicide and uses illegal drugs.

Like you wrote in the posting above, we can only be responsible for our actions.
I regret neglecting her and working out of town but I don't have a time machine.
Also others have pointed out that my perception is through rose colored glasses.

One day at a time.
I have started to be extra friendly with a cashier lady at a local store I shop in weekly. I understand that Dr Harley discourages marriages while raising kids but is it acceptable to go on dates? I think of the Andy Griffith show and Andy Taylor always went on dates and had girlfriends.

Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/24/12 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by ak1
So I think this is the difference. You and I completely screwed up, did we make our wifes sick? Maybe, but after we recognized what we did and started to change and seek help it was back on our wifes to do the same, but they were stuck.
Did you neglect your wife's needs?
you probably did.

Did your actions cause your wife's behaviour?
If their own family experienced the same behaviour
before you even met...
you did not cause this, you cannot fix this!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/01/13 05:51 AM
Gerald,
I visited my brother in law.
He is a psychiatrist.
He said that my ex wife fits the criteria for BPD.
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/01/13 06:56 PM
jedi

i know this will sound really really hard and will go against every you know and believe in.
you are a very religious person and believe in forgiveness... or some sort of peaceful co-existance.

FORGET IT!

BPD is an iceberg and you have only seen 1/4th of it.
she is in 'mellow' mode as long as she has the POS OM meeting her needs.

But you know as much as I do, this affair is not going to last and you will be facing the 3/4th of the iceberg when it does.

YOU WILL HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN AND YOURSELF from this women.

if it is legal and the judge allows it, move to another STATE.

i can give you some examples of what could happen if you do not:
kidnapping, infanticide, treats of suicide...
This is WAY beyond Marriage builders!!!
ANY contact of your WW wife with you or your children will be destructive, rest assured.

Contact your lawyer ASAP and see what is possible to get yourself and your children away from her. MOVE to another state.

You will be facing 'Satan' and your religious believes are NOT going to protect you or your children from IT.
Pray you will have the strength to do this. Save your religion for your own salvation!

I have been there, without children, and it scarred me for the rest of my life.

Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/02/13 11:04 AM
Originally Posted by geroldmodel
jedi

i know this will sound really really hard and will go against every you know and believe in.
you are a very religious person and believe in forgiveness... or some sort of peaceful co-existance.

FORGET IT!

BPD is an iceberg and you have only seen 1/4th of it.
she is in 'mellow' mode as long as she has the POS OM meeting her needs.

But you know as much as I do, this affair is not going to last and you will be facing the 3/4th of the iceberg when it does.

YOU WILL HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN AND YOURSELF from this women.

if it is legal and the judge allows it, move to another STATE.

i can give you some examples of what could happen if you do not:
kidnapping, infanticide, treats of suicide...
This is WAY beyond Marriage builders!!!
ANY contact of your WW wife with you or your children will be destructive, rest assured.

Contact your lawyer ASAP and see what is possible to get yourself and your children away from her. MOVE to another state.

You will be facing 'Satan' and your religious believes are NOT going to protect you or your children from IT.
Pray you will have the strength to do this. Save your religion for your own salvation!

I have been there, without children, and it scarred me for the rest of my life.

X2
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/04/13 06:39 AM
Copy of email sent to Dr Harley.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


I have a question.�
For a third of my marriage, my alcoholic mother-in-law lived with us.�
After divorce in July 2012 I allowed my children to continue visiting her for 2 hours a week at a local fast good restaurant.�
Lately she has accompanied us to the skating rink.�
Last week I picked her up and she smelled like she had been drinking.�
How should I set boundaries with her? Am I morally obligated to allow her to visit her grand kids?
Her daughter (my ex wife's sister) told me that she cut off all contact with this woman (her mom) and will not allow her any contact with her kids. Should I do the same?

Personally I do not like her. During my pending divorce she participating in my wife's concealing the whereabouts of my children, in violation of a court order.�
The children like her and she seems to show care for them but I do not want them to be emotionally dependent on an alcoholic relative, nor do I want them to listen to her lies.�

Can you please offer me guidance?
Thank you
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/04/13 06:50 AM
Update:

I visited both SIL.
They both said (separately) that ex wife is mentally unstable.
They said she has told them she is working towards getting custody of the kids??
I hope my ex FIL is not going to enable more court hearings.

While I was visiting we went places and ex wife sent a text to her sister asking for pics. Her sister replied that she would not send pics because she doesn't want to be in a relationship (even as sister) with someone involved with a drug addict.
(ex wife is living with affair partner and ex felon drug addict)

Her sister told me that even if ww came back I should not let her back in because she would only leave again.

They both said she has been selfish her entire life.

Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/04/13 06:52 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Copy of email sent to Dr Harley.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


I have a question.�
For a third of my marriage, my alcoholic mother-in-law lived with us.�
After divorce in July 2012 I allowed my children to continue visiting her for 2 hours a week at a local fast good restaurant.�
Lately she has accompanied us to the skating rink.�
Last week I picked her up and she smelled like she had been drinking.�
How should I set boundaries with her? Am I morally obligated to allow her to visit her grand kids?
Her daughter (my ex wife's sister) told me that she cut off all contact with this woman (her mom) and will not allow her any contact with her kids. Should I do the same?

Personally I do not like her. During my pending divorce she participating in my wife's concealing the whereabouts of my children, in violation of a court order.�
The children like her and she seems to show care for them but I do not want them to be emotionally dependent on an alcoholic relative, nor do I want them to listen to her lies.�

Can you please offer me guidance?
Thank you
I would tell her if she is going to smell of alcohol around your children that you will not allow her to be around your children.
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/04/13 10:41 AM
I too felt the moral obligation to have my children spend time and continue to have a relationship with their grandparents. Sometimes, especially with your childrens boozing it up granny, that would be where you would have to create boundries and/or have to go NC with them. It all comes down to creating healthy boundries and relationships for your children and yourself. If that includes no visit with granny while she is under the influence, than that might be the way it is. In my case, I recently went NC with my IL's, so the children have not had any visits with their grandparents in a couple months.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/04/13 02:02 PM
I was thinking that a potential boundary would be the following rule:

MIL must purchase a breathalyzer and give it to me : she must breath into it every visit. If she fails the test it means no visit for a month. However I went to the AlAnon chat boards and they basically say that is a ridiculous attempt at control.
Posted By: Pineneedle Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/04/13 04:08 PM
I would agree with that. It is controlling.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/04/13 08:05 PM
Well what do I do?
Last week I smelled booze.
All she would do is deny drinking.

I received the following response from Dr Harley:


The question is what can you do, and what can�t you do. �You may not be able to keep your children away from your mother-in-law when your wife has visitation. �You might need �a court order, which would be very difficult to get. �Another issue is how would the children respond to being told that they can�t see their grandmother. �I don�t think you�re in a position to tell your ex-wife what she can and can�t do with them unless you have custody. �And you might want to discuss the problem with your children to get their take on it. �It may be that they don�t want to be with her as much as you think. �Or, they might feel that you would be mean to prevent them from being with her. �At this point in raising your children, it�s more important for them to know that they�re loved, than it is to be trained do do what you want them to do. �Divorce is tragic, and this is one of the reasons that it�s so undesirable. �
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/06/13 01:36 AM
Email from dr Harley:

I apologize for having not read all of the other posts you sent. �You are right that you can refuse to let your children see their grandmother, so take that problem off the table. �I suggest that you discuss the problem with the one supervising your wife�s visitation. �If the children are to be told by you that they can�t see their grandmother, you should have some backup from a respected person. �In the final analysis, the grandmother may be encouraged to clean up her act if she ever wants to see her grandchildren, which would be good for the grandmother. �If the supervisor feels that it�s okay for your children to be with their grandmother while she�s drunk, you have a problem greater than the grandmother.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/06/13 02:09 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Email from dr Harley:

I apologize for having not read all of the other posts you sent. �You are right that you can refuse to let your children see their grandmother, so take that problem off the table. �I suggest that you discuss the problem with the one supervising your wife�s visitation. �If the children are to be told by you that they can�t see their grandmother, you should have some backup from a respected person. �In the final analysis, the grandmother may be encouraged to clean up her act if she ever wants to see her grandchildren, which would be good for the grandmother. �If the supervisor feels that it�s okay for your children to be with their grandmother while she�s drunk, you have a problem greater than the grandmother.

Makes a lotta sense from my point of view Jedi, I have been away for awhile, and it still sticks out like a sore thumb.

Remember Dr H was an addiction counselor before he got into marriage counseling, so he comes from the right background and is prepared in the right ways..You can trust him.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/06/13 07:05 AM
Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Email from dr Harley:

I apologize for having not read all of the other posts you sent. �You are right that you can refuse to let your children see their grandmother, so take that problem off the table. �I suggest that you discuss the problem with the one supervising your wife�s visitation. �If the children are to be told by you that they can�t see their grandmother, you should have some backup from a respected person. �In the final analysis, the grandmother may be encouraged to clean up her act if she ever wants to see her grandchildren, which would be good for the grandmother. �If the supervisor feels that it�s okay for your children to be with their grandmother while she�s drunk, you have a problem greater than the grandmother.

Makes a lotta sense from my point of view Jedi, I have been away for awhile, and it still sticks out like a sore thumb.

Remember Dr H was an addiction counselor before he got into marriage counseling, so he comes from the right background and is prepared in the right ways..You can trust him.
I agree.

So what are you going to do Jedi?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/06/13 05:20 PM
I am going to discuss it with their child counselor.
Dr Harley recommended the supervisor but the county visitation center doesn't address matters like that; they only ensure safe visitation.

I will also discuss it in AlAnon on how to proceed.

Te issue is that the kids care about her and the visits have been pleasant but it's the relapses that I can't tolerate. The kids will be angry.
We are meeting her today.
If she is intoxicated I will tell her to get out of the car.

Any other suggestions?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/06/13 06:00 PM
I have a question about moving.
I am
In foreclosure and will need to move within a year.
I am contemplating moving near my ex wife's sisters house because their family is close to my kids.
Is there any potential problems with that?
All of my side of the family lives on the west coast and there are not many economic prospects there.
I would like to move somewhere and remain until my kids are grown
Posted By: JenniferVoyager Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/07/13 10:32 AM
Have you talked to WxW's sister? The fact that they are realistic about her and supportive of you is a great sign, but if its something you would do hoping she could help out with the kids (a good idea) it's good to put that on the table and ask if she'd be willing. Sometimes I have made the mistake of not asking family for help, but putting myself in a situation where I let them know I need it then wait hoping they will offer...kind of hard to explain but it comes from my co-dependency. I've worked hard to be more straightforward. I think your best bet is to lay it all out there especially since you don't have family nearby. The other option is moving nearer your church or where people from your church live...that's what I did and who I have as back-ups with school and things, because I have no family here and HAM was my backup before.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/08/13 04:28 PM
Yes I've spoken with them.
They say that they will help any way they can
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/09/13 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I am going to discuss it with their child counselor.
Dr Harley recommended the supervisor but the county visitation center doesn't address matters like that; they only ensure safe visitation.

I will also discuss it in AlAnon on how to proceed.

Te issue is that the kids care about her and the visits have been pleasant but it's the relapses that I can't tolerate. The kids will be angry.
We are meeting her today.
If she is intoxicated I will tell her to get out of the car.

Any other suggestions?

Maybe this is a question for your lawyer to handle, if the law doesn't do anything to protect against drunkeness in visitation.

I would think that they would, but you prolly have to bring it up and make charges stick somehow..Dont worry, She will get the help she needs if she gets busted...

Talk to your lawyer or get a new one if this is not addressed soon
Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/09/13 02:57 AM
Do you know if she drives while drunk?

And I agree with CP -- this CANNOT be ignored.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/09/13 06:43 AM
Jedi you are a spiritual man, and I thought I was too, when in reality I was protecting her from herself, and in the end, her own demons got her anyways.

You cannot be Christ for her, you will only be crucified, as yet again he is crucified again. Just like in Hebrews

This is between her and God, and you only have a small part.

Do not protect her, call out her drinking and make her accountable.

Do it for your children, and do not expect to be appreciated, many addicts do not even see what they do.

I am sure you are learning this in AA, and as you sift through the material, you will come to this realization.

Do it because it is what has to be done, at this time and place brother.

That is all you need to understand, what is going on now, not what could be, should be, or what you might deserve..

What is going on now has to be dealt with
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/09/13 03:11 PM
She doesn't drive.
The only time the kids see grandma is when I allow it.
So far we visit her once a week either at burger king indoor play park or we pick her up and let her go skating with us.
I am always with the kids.

So far it hasn't been bad.
It was 3 weeks ago she smelled like booze.
She has no legal right to see them.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/09/13 03:16 PM
Te grandmother has been disowned by one of her 3 daughters because of severe neglect as a child.
But when she is with us under controlled situations they seem to have fun
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/09/13 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I am contemplating moving near my ex wife's sisters house because their family is close to my kids.

Hey JK, glad to read that things are working out well for you guys.

Can you (legally) move out of state with the kids?
Posted By: 1995droptopz Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/09/13 04:42 PM
In my county, the Friend of the Court Handbook states that a parent can deny visitation if the other parent is under the influence of drugs or alcohol. I would secure a copy of this document, as well as any other Friend of the Court documentation from your state and particular county. Within these documents the court outlines what is allowed, not allowed, etc.

I have also had trouble with my exWW attempting to damage my relationship with my DD8. Thankfully, I have been very close with my DD8, and she regularly tells me stories about how mom punished her because I don't pay enough money, or because I ruined christmas because I wanted visitation.

I found that honesty with my daughter was the best policy. I show her that I only want the best for her, and the court make the determinations, not me.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/09/13 05:04 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I am contemplating moving near my ex wife's sisters house because their family is close to my kids.

Hey JK, glad to read that things are working out well for you guys.

Can you (legally) move out of state with the kids?

I am required to provide 60 day notice to the court and ex wife ; she or the court can request a hearing.
I have emailed my attorney for guidance
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/10/13 01:10 AM
Emails receive from ex ww:

Needing info. On childrens health... Is everyone feeling better?

Email 2:

Also ned to know when thier next couseling apointments are. Please send dates and times for each.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/10/13 04:32 AM
This is my proposed response to email 2:

In an effort to more efficiently share important child event dates such as doctor appointments, school events, vacations, etc I have created an online calendar.
You should have received an email from Google with instructions on how to access this calendar online.
Thank you

Any thoughts?

Also no response to email 1 because I don't know what she is talking about "feeling better". We visited her 2 sisters on Christmas school break and the kids are fine.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/10/13 12:08 PM
Oh and when we visited the SIL over Christmas break she did comment that all is not happy in Affair Land.
Apparently ex ww and POSOM are beginning. To have arguments.

LOL
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/10/13 02:25 PM
What irritates me about email 2 is that she is convinced the kids need intensive therapy when they don't.
I also wonder why she wants the dates and times
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/10/13 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
This is my proposed response to email 2:

In an effort to more efficiently share important child event dates such as doctor appointments, school events, vacations, etc I have created an online calendar.
You should have received an email from Google with instructions on how to access this calendar online.
Thank you


Any thoughts?

It's still the same online calendar that she's always had access to, right?

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/10/13 03:57 PM
Yes
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/10/13 04:03 PM
Then rinse and repeat seems appropriate.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/10/13 04:09 PM
Okay. I rinsed and repeated. Email response has been sent
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/11/13 02:06 PM
Originally Posted by tiredwife45
Yes, I do!

For my daughter I bought The Care and Keeping of You http://www.amazon.com/Care-Keeping-American-Girl-Library/dp/1562476661

I gave it to her when she was 9. It is a GREAT book that explains about bras and how their breasts develop, about shaving how and when to do it, about their period and pads and tampons, etc. It has opened up tons of dialogue with us.

She is now 10 and is turning 11 shortly after Christmas. I bought Family Life today's Passport to Purity along with the project pack.

http://www.familylife.com/find-help/key-resources/passport2purity

The idea is that you take your preteen child for a special weekend with you. There is a travel journal for her. There are Cd's that you listen to and assignments she will complete or you will do together. You are also supposed to do some kind of fun activity that she enjoys for the weekend like the zoo or amusement park or sports game. ( Or he, I will say she because I am doing it with my daughter) You also take your child on a date.

I hope that helps.

I bought the Care and Keeping of You and it arrived from Amazon this week.
My daughter has read it through 3 times so far!
She loves it and said it answered a lot of the questions she had!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/11/13 04:39 PM
Email response from ex ww:

This is understood Completely. I have visited the calendar and see nothing scheduled as far as the counseling apointments
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/11/13 04:44 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Email response from ex ww:

This is understood Completely. I have visited the calendar and see nothing scheduled as far as the counseling apointments
Are they on the calendar?
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/11/13 04:45 PM
...or do the appointments even exist?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/11/13 06:50 PM
There is no current appt
Therapist only wants to see them one
More time and hasn't scheduled it yet.

Her sisters sai she wants custody back. Could these emails have something to do with that?

I'm also going to cut off the MIL.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/11/13 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Her sisters sai she wants custody back. Could these emails have something to do with that?

Well, I want a million bucks but it probably isn't going to happen unless I do some things on my end first.

Same with your ex, and she has a lousy track record of doing anything that will further her role as a mother. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/12/13 04:27 PM
Okay. Some background.
My MIL is an alcoholic. She live with us for a third of my 10 yr marriage. I think she ruined it from the beginning.

She has 3 daughters. They were all sexually abused user her care. Tey were also physically abused. They all have problems as adults. One daughter has been NO CONTACT with her for over a year.

During and after divorce I allowed her to visit te kids once a week in a controlled environment that I supervise.
When we picked her up to accompany us to an event she smelled of booze.
During my divorce she also aided my wife in concealing the whereabouts of my children illegally.

I have decided to cut her out.
I wrote dr Harley and he recommended I have someone back me up with the kids because they will be mad.
They have an emotional attachment with her. I called their youth therapist but she is on medical leave for 2 months. She agreed that kids should not be around alcoholics.
During this process I have observed that even though I emotionally divorced my wife I have difficulty divorcing her mother.

I have drafted a no contact letter. I would appreciate your feedback and how to handle this with the kids. :


Dear Ex MIL

I would like to thank you for your efforts to be involved in my children's lives.�

However when we recently picked you up in December to accompany us to the skating rink, there was a strong smell of alcohol on you. I suspect that you were intoxicated.�

Throughout my marriage to your daughter there were periods of sobriety followed by relapses. This caused extreme stress on our marriage as your daughter was often more concerned about your welfare than her own family.�

I will not allow my children to form close emotional attachments with active addicts or alcoholics. I want them to grow in a safe and healthy environment free from the bizarre behaviors of alcoholism as much as possible.�

At this time we will no longer visit with you. Please do not call, write or make any attempt to contact the children or myself.�

I am open to re-establishing a relationship in the future if you maintain sobriety for at least a year and it is verified by a third party professional or sponsor (not a family member).�

The children and I love you and hope that you will do so.�

Respectfully�

JEDI







Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/12/13 04:47 PM
I want to make logical wise decisions and not an emotional decision in this matter
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/12/13 05:05 PM
Quote
This caused extreme stress on our marriage as your daughter was often more concerned about your welfare than her own family.

If you put this in, that's all she will see. "Oh, you're blaming ME for your failed marriage?!"..."and now your trying to get revenge on me" - I can just hear it.

just a thought.

opt

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/12/13 05:10 PM
Okay I will remove that
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/12/13 06:28 PM
Any other suggestions?
I want to send this today because Sundays are when we normally see her.

I am afraid of my kids being mad at me. But I know it needs to be done.

Personally I wouldn't put it past this woman to orchestrate whatever lies she needed to to assist her daughter (my ex). She is toxic but Its still difficult to go no contact
Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/12/13 07:02 PM
How old are the kids again? Can you explain it to them in a way they might understand?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/12/13 07:04 PM
10 8 6

I have explained alcoholism to them already using AlAnon guidelines
Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/12/13 07:28 PM
Then maybe explain to them in ways appropriate to their separate ages why it's bad for grandma to be around them because of it.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/12/13 10:46 PM
Okay. Boy I'm more nervous than when I sent the exposure letters!

Here we go.
I'm sending the letter now.
Sending copies to my 2 SIL that I have relationships with.

I removed an additional paragraph based on advice I received from another forum. Here is the final letter:


Dear ex MIL

I would like to thank you for your efforts to be involved in my children's lives.�

However when we recently picked you up in December to accompany us to the skating rink, there was a strong smell of alcohol on you. I suspect that you were intoxicated.�

Throughout my marriage to your daughter there were periods of sobriety followed by relapses.�

At this time we will no longer visit with you. Please do not call, write or make any attempt to contact the children or myself.�

I am open to re-establishing a relationship in the future if you maintain sobriety for at least a year and it is verified by a third party professional or sponsor (not a family member).�

The children and I love you and hope that you will do so.�

Respectfully�

JEDI




Posted By: living_well Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/12/13 11:19 PM
Look at it this way; your XW is a mess because of this woman so you owe it to your children to protect them from her while they are still young enough for you to be able to do it.

But they do need a female in their lives, if you trust SIL, that would work, otherwise your own sister if you have one.
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/12/13 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by living_well
Look at it this way; your XW is a mess because of this woman so you owe it to your children to protect them from her while they are still young enough for you to be able to do it.

But they do need a female in their lives, if you trust SIL, that would work, otherwise your own sister if you have one.

I agree.
Posted By: PhoenixStar Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/13/13 12:11 AM
Good luck on the letter JK. Good to read that you continue to be so strong for your kids.

Take Care
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/13/13 04:47 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Okay. Some background.
Dear Ex MIL


Throughout my marriage to your daughter there were periods of sobriety followed by relapses. This caused extreme stress on our marriage as your daughter was often more concerned about your welfare than her own family.�
JEDI
redflag

This is very common in familys where the parents are alcoholics

It is very often used for a reason for the siblings to drink...

You must know this because you can see it yourself..

"Its out of control?"

Sorry you are going through this Jedi. Hope you are getting the plug pulled
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/13/13 05:20 AM
Yes I sent it off.
I already feel as though a weight has been lifted from my Shoulders
Posted By: PhoenixStar Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/13/13 12:51 PM
Hey, did you see my other thread about the Thunder Road Race? Sorry we missed each other but I know you are more than busy.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/13/13 01:34 PM
Look into the role playing you seem to have lived much of your marriage in Jedi.

It was nesessary then, and this is now.

You will do much better living for yourself, for your kids, than hanging on the cross, for someone who can't even see it, won't see it, can't see it.

Trust me on that brother..

May God Bless you
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/13/13 08:01 PM
copy of email sent to Visitation Center:


Hello,

I just picked up my children from VISITATION CENTER
One again Ex WW may have discussed adult matters with my children in an inappropriate manner.�

Allow me to provide some background information:
Ex WW mother Ex MIL has lived with us a third of our 10 year marriage. She is an alcoholic.�
The children are emotionally attached to her.�
Last June the Court issued an Order that Ex WW could not be left alone with the children. Since that time I have facilitated visits between my children and EX MIL and have continued to do so after divorce.�
Unfortunately, Ex MIL chose to return to active alcoholism and was intoxicated when I recently picked her up to accompany the kids and I to the skating rink.�

After consulting with a clinical psychologist and members of AlAnon I wrote a letter to Ex MIL establishing boundaries. I explained that we will have no contact with her until she has been sober for a year. (letter below)

I explained in an age appropriate manner this matter with my children.�

Today, as soon as I picked the kids up from Visitation Dd8 told me that "Grandma cried for 20 minutes when she read my letter" and that "Grandma loves us so much and wants to see us". I asked her who told her this and she said "Mommy said so"

Ds10 and Dd8 also said they "can call grandma anytime"

I feel this is inappropriate conversation and undermines boundaries which have been put in place to protect my children from the damaging effects of alcoholism. These comments by Ex ww also portray me as a bad person in the eyes of the children.�

Do you have any suggestions on how�
Such conversations can be avoided in the future?

(Copy of letter to Ex MIL

�Dear Ex MIL

I would like to thank you for your efforts to be involved in my children's lives.�

However when we recently picked you up in December to accompany us to the skating rink, there was a strong smell of alcohol on you. I suspect that you were intoxicated.�

Throughout my marriage to your daughter there were periods of sobriety followed by relapses.�

At this time we will no longer visit with you. Please do not call, write or make any attempt to contact the children or myself.�

I am open to re-establishing a relationship in the future if you maintain sobriety for at least a year and it is verified by a third party professional or sponsor (not a family member).�

The children and I love you and hope that you will do so.�

Respectfully�

JEDI

Sent from my iPhone
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/14/13 03:09 PM
Email received from Visitation Center:

Dear Jedi,

Thank you for informing the Center of this conversation and the situation with maternal grandmother.� I will call Ex ww myself today and address these types of inappropriate conversations.� I will also have Case Worker remain her next Sunday about appropriate conversation.�

If there is another incident of inappropriate conversation reported to our staff, the level of supervision during the visit go back to a level 1 (someone in the room at all times).
Thank you again.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/14/13 03:10 PM
Good job, sounds like they are handling it pretty well.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/14/13 11:53 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Good job, sounds like they are handling it pretty well.

Ditto
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/15/13 12:02 AM
Maybe it should go back to Lvl 1 Jedi..

The words used are only 1/2 of the communication..Body language and eye contact being very important too..

If they're is someone who can see this, it will help your kids immensely.

At any rate someone who would intimidate her into acting straight at least would help..even if it was just acting..

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/24/13 03:58 AM
Have a question:

OM ex wife ( they divorced same time as I did during our spouses affair) sent me a message:
"Hey just wondering how you are doing? I am mostly good but my ex husband keeps sending me text messages all the time wanting to be friends ha ha ha "

During my exposure etc there were some questions about if OM was reading my exposure letters to her or not. She told me he did delete one message (initial exposure).

There is a possibility that this could be some ploy by my ex wife.
Or it could just be a betrayed wife asking how I am Doing.

Should I respond to the message or should I just block her?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/24/13 04:20 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Have a question:

OM ex wife ( they divorced same time as I did during our spouses affair) sent me a message:
"Hey just wondering how you are doing? I am mostly good but my ex husband keeps sending me text messages all the time wanting to be friends ha ha ha "

During my exposure etc there were some questions about if OM was reading my exposure letters to her or not. She told me he did delete one message (initial exposure).

There is a possibility that this could be some ploy by my ex wife.
Or it could just be a betrayed wife asking how I am Doing.

Should I respond to the message or should I just block her?

How would your xw be able to text from om's bw's phone? Probably best to ignore her.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/24/13 04:25 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Have a question:

OM ex wife ( they divorced same time as I did during our spouses affair) sent me a message:
"Hey just wondering how you are doing? I am mostly good but my ex husband keeps sending me text messages all the time wanting to be friends ha ha ha "

During my exposure etc there were some questions about if OM was reading my exposure letters to her or not. She told me he did delete one message (initial exposure).

There is a possibility that this could be some ploy by my ex wife.
Or it could just be a betrayed wife asking how I am Doing.

Should I respond to the message or should I just block her?

Have you ever directed her to MB?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/24/13 04:54 AM
Smiling woman, the message was a Facebook message.

I've thought about directing her to MB and I have shared buyers renters freeloaders with my ex wife's family. My brother in law (Married to ex wife sister) was very interested in the concepts and I left my book buyers renter freeload with him.

I don't want to share mb with her because I'm concerned about privacy. I go back and forth on sharing it with relatives because I don't want to loose the safe place to post
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/24/13 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
"Hey just wondering how you are doing? I am mostly good but my ex husband keeps sending me text messages all the time wanting to be friends ha ha ha "

We're doing fine, thanks, and hope all is well with your family. Take care.

You probably just came to mind and she thought that she'd drop you a line.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/24/13 02:18 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
"Hey just wondering how you are doing? I am mostly good but my ex husband keeps sending me text messages all the time wanting to be friends ha ha ha "

We're doing fine, thanks, and hope all is well with your family. Take care.

You probably just came to mind and she thought that she'd drop you a line.


I am FB friends with OW's BH...and his sister. We stay in touch. We are both happy that the other is happy.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/24/13 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
There is a possibility that this could be some ploy by my ex wife.

Explain why it is a ploy by your XW or that you are paranoid?
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/24/13 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
"Hey just wondering how you are doing? I am mostly good but my ex husband keeps sending me text messages all the time wanting to be friends ha ha ha "

We're doing fine, thanks, and hope all is well with your family. Take care.

You probably just came to mind and she thought that she'd drop you a line.


I am FB friends with OW's BH...and his sister. We stay in touch. We are both happy that the other is happy.

Yeah it sounds to me Jedi that she would welcome the "Im Happy, are you happy?..Everybodies happy so lets.."Just sweep it all under the rug" ..approach.

Looking for ways to let denial reign, in other words..

Is she going to AA?..or let me guess..she doesn't need it now right?

She is checking to see if the bridge has been burned completely or if there are still some boards that can be walked upon..or maybe how much abuse you can still be counted on to take and remain faithful.

I would ignore this and just go on with my new life sir
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/25/13 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
There is a possibility that this could be some ploy by my ex wife.

Explain why it is a ploy by your XW or that you are paranoid?

Well I didn't know.
I followed Northwood recommended language and sent her that message.
I don't want to appear as paranoid about my ex wife. But I haven't seen or spoken to her some divorce and I don't want a third wheel spying on me for her.

I just don't want anything to do with any of those people.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/25/13 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I just don't want anything to do with any of those people.

Oh ok, that wasn't really clear in your original post. No need to respond to her again in the future.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/26/13 01:45 PM
I had a dream last night:
My ex wife was at home and it was shortly after divorce.
She had returned home and I mentioned something about OM and she responded in an upset tone, "Well he actually told me it was his way or the highway. So we're broke up now"
I asked her, You are no longer with him?
She answered, Well yes and no. I need to tell him it's over.

Then I was washing dishes in the kitchen and looked out of a window (new house entirely) and saw her sitting in a chair. I thought to myself, "if I'm divorced I can make her leave the home. I can tell her that she needs to leave."
But I was uncertain of myself so I tried to find time to post a message in the MB forum for advice.

She was walking around like she owned the place!

---end of dream


Thats a crazy dream. I was hoping to dream of beautiful women and such but instead dreamt of the cheating ex wife!


Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/26/13 02:24 PM
Email received from ex ww:


Please let me know one week in advance when our children have an upcoming doctor or dental appointment

Should I respond with the same notice I always do explaining that all events are posted on a google calendar? Or just ignore?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/26/13 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Email received from ex ww:


Please let me know one week in advance when our children have an upcoming doctor or dental appointment

Should I respond with the same notice I always do explaining that all events are posted on a google calendar? Or just ignore?

Do you have an IM? Since you don't have a problem communicating with her, just send an email back saying "check Google calendar".
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/27/13 12:56 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Email received from ex ww:


Please let me know one week in advance when our children have an upcoming doctor or dental appointment

Should I respond with the same notice I always do explaining that all events are posted on a google calendar? Or just ignore?

How many times have you already told her to look at google calender? 10? 20? I would just ignore. JMO.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/27/13 01:04 AM
Agree, if you've already told her then ignore. Do you Have an IM?
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/27/13 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Thats a crazy dream. I was hoping to dream of beautiful women and such but instead dreamt of the cheating ex wife!

You'll have that...

More distance, more rest and sleep..more chance of good dreams
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/27/13 02:48 AM
Okay. I will ignore the email.
BH I do not have an IM.
I dont really feel like I need one.
When I receive an email I post here and read the divorce order (if necessary) before responding; she is also blocked from my cell.

When she breaks up with the OM I have a gut feeling she will want to come back. But I could be wrong. If she does do that please do not let me welcome her back with open arms. This woman accused me of drugging her, kidnapping her and raping her and was horrible to live with during her affair. Hold my feet to the fire, fellow forumites!
Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/27/13 02:53 AM
We'll hold you to that promise!

She will want to come back if she doesn't find another OM. They all usually do.
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/27/13 03:05 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Okay. I will ignore the email.
BH I do not have an IM.
I dont really feel like I need one.
When I receive an email I post here and read the divorce order (if necessary) before responding; she is also blocked from my cell.

When she breaks up with the OM I have a gut feeling she will want to come back. But I could be wrong. If she does do that please do not let me welcome her back with open arms. This woman accused me of drugging her, kidnapping her and raping her and was horrible to live with during her affair. Hold my feet to the fire, fellow forumites!

I am sure some will be holding your feet to the fire, others will be stoking the fire, others will be discussing MB materials, and I can think of a couple that will be going "have you lost your mind?". I would hope they would do the same for me. smile
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/27/13 03:06 AM
My kids got report cards yesterday.
Excellent grades.
Two years ago they held the school record for absences and tardiness.

I miss the habits associated with ww at times, like watching a favorite tvshow or getting coffee.

But LOGICALLY I know we are all better off. Last year was CHAOS during her affair. Today we have structure and a schedule of events every week.

CP posted on INDIE NEW LIFE thread the question: Can we go without sex?

I haven't had sex for more than a year. I have decided to heed Dr Harley's advice against remarriage and not date until after my kids are grown, which is only 12 years from now. I personally struggle with no sexual activity at all, especially no masturbation. It is really a struggle between mind and body.

Having very limited contact with ex ww has helped my emotional healing immensely. I'm very thankful I found MB duirng my times of trial
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/27/13 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Email received from ex ww:


Please let me know one week in advance when our children have an upcoming doctor or dental appointment

Should I respond with the same notice I always do explaining that all events are posted on a google calendar? Or just ignore?

Do you have an IM? Since you don't have a problem communicating with her, just send an email back saying "check Google calendar".

Why is this BH breaking NC by reading WW emails?

Why is this BH being told to break NC by sending an email to her?

Why is this BH not using his IM?
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/27/13 05:09 PM
Road has a point
bbl
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/28/13 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
CP posted on INDIE NEW LIFE thread the question: Can we go without sex?

It wasn't really a question. We Know we can do without it. It was more a statement to bring the "Contrast" effect back into the realm of compatability without those extreme emotional issues that sex brings in.

Your a guy, and you must also see that women are usually more sexual beings, and by that I mean more the "responder", not as likely the initiator. Yeah I guess that means they think more with the right head..sorry if that crude but it is more the fact.

It puts guys in a tough position because if a girl goes for it with them, and they beg off, all kinds of insecurities can arise..Especially with today's more's.

BTW Road, were you talking about BH=Betrayed Husband or BH=Brain Hurts? I agree with you if you were talking about betrayed husband

I Assume on Indies thread they understood what I was saying and would comment if they didn't get it..

To me the "Contrast effect" was about personality compatability more than anything and I don't see where sexuality has to come in to figure that out.

If you love someone you want to make them happy, and sex usually makes us happy..its a no-brainer

So are you using an IM and insulating yourself from your messed up wife?

Maybe you answered this allready but if not, why not?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/28/13 03:44 AM
No I don't have an IM.
I was recommended by some posters not to; because she may bypass them anyway.
I only have contact through a dedicated email address; I have not seen or spoken to her since divorce 7 months ago
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/28/13 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
[quote=Jedi_Knight]
BTW Road, were you talking about BH=Betrayed Husband or BH=Brain Hurts? I agree with you if you were talking about betrayed husband

I was talking about BH/betrayed husband. When I say BH I mean BH.

I was not talking about Melodylane Jr. MrRollieEyes
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/28/13 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
No I don't have an IM.
I was recommended by some posters not to; because she may bypass them anyway.
I only have contact through a dedicated email address; I have not seen or spoken to her since divorce 7 months ago

Hmm not usually MB policy to suggest not having an IM. At least most divorcing couples have lawyers to handle the communication, those legally bound by law and trained,(Although they might only have a certificate and a diploma).

Plus it costs $

But having someone you both know to transfer messages who can remain impartial and objective usually means things will get filtered through them, and if it is a personal IM, a lot of stuff can be filtered out..IE.

Possible Email from XW in red print

I need you to pick up the kids at 3:00 PM because my boyfriend is going to take me to the Grammys and to dinner at the Ritz Carlton and he hates it when we are late. When we were together you always made me feel like I was irresponsible and he says along with my therapist that was so bad for adults to do to each other.

I am really upset and have been crying all day because I am going to miss the kids.(Blah Blah Blah how its your responsibility and your fault that they are not cared for correctly and because you do not have a magic wand to make it all better..)

You will have to drop them off at 1 PM on the appropriate day because they have a DRs appt at 3 PM that day with thier therapist that was court ordered by your interferance with their life..(More emotional blah blah blame games and reasons why its all your fault..)


Filtered thru IM letter in Blue print

Your wife sent you a letter and she said,

"If you can please pick up the kids at 3 PM on the scheduled day, and drop them off at 1 PM on the following scheduled day."

Hope you are having a good day Jedi



Now the Lawyer would have to give you all the letter and include all the reasons that the law gives you to..(Included in law books version)

The IM could be trusted to trim it down unless they discerned she was in a crisis where someone is endangered of life or limb.

This is the reason for an IM basically. To take you out of the drama that WSs will try to keep you enslaved to.

You are a man that believes above the "Law of the land", and I respect that believe me.

I am sure DR.H is well versed on the law but I am Glad he has not taken the Law version of being a therapist and has the faith and conviction to realize that Marriage is a union between two adults and before God. Gods laws, Gods way.

The IM is set up to help you heal and take you away from the Drama that is so prevalent in all deep human relationships.

Just because someone wants to twist the rules to fit into their own circumstances, doesn't mean you can fool God, being the light and the truth, and the source of revelation to man.

Get an IM and start healing Jedi
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/28/13 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
[quote=Jedi_Knight]
BTW Road, were you talking about BH=Betrayed Husband or BH=Brain Hurts? I agree with you if you were talking about betrayed husband

I was talking about BH/betrayed husband. When I say BH I mean BH.

I was not talking about Melodylane Jr. MrRollieEyes

Mel has inspired a lot of ppl Road, and the site will do good to have someone teach like DR. H and quote him.

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

I don't know about you but I am jealous...
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/28/13 08:45 PM
I don't need an IM because I have full custody. There is no child exchanges etc
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/28/13 08:48 PM
She would just do whatever she wants anyway
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/28/13 09:31 PM
So then if she is contacting you it is at your choice?

Then you can block her number and get a restraining order if nessary.

She is not allowed to disrupt your life in any way Jedi.

Maybe you are just using this site as a means to heal. I am doing the same.

God Bless
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/29/13 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
[quote=Jedi_Knight]
BTW Road, were you talking about BH=Betrayed Husband or BH=Brain Hurts? I agree with you if you were talking about betrayed husband

I was talking about BH/betrayed husband. When I say BH I mean BH.

I was not talking about Melodylane Jr. MrRollieEyes

Mel has inspired a lot of ppl Road, and the site will do good to have someone teach like DR. H and quote him.

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

I don't know about you but I am jealous...
Maybe The Road wants to be called Melodylane Jr?
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 01/29/13 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
[quote=Jedi_Knight]
BTW Road, were you talking about BH=Betrayed Husband or BH=Brain Hurts? I agree with you if you were talking about betrayed husband

I was talking about BH/betrayed husband. When I say BH I mean BH.

I was not talking about Melodylane Jr. MrRollieEyes

Mel has inspired a lot of ppl Road, and the site will do good to have someone teach like DR. H and quote him.

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

I don't know about you but I am jealous...
Maybe The Road wants to be called Melodylane Jr?

TheRoad is not that good.

However you are good enough. Hence you have earned the nick name.

Nicknames are not taken.

Nicknames are given.

So it is up to you to feel insulted or complimented to be called MelodylaneJr.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/02/13 06:26 AM
Well my small contracting business is just about under.
I'm trying to hang in there but the prospects look bleak.

I do have a credit card lawsuit filed against me in small claims court. I have a pre trial hearing Tuesday on this lawsuit. I'm trying to delay collection activity as much as possible until foreclosure lawsuit so I can declare bankruptcy at that time.

The adultery and divorce really did wipe me out emotionally and financially.

I think much clearer now post divorce but at times I sometimes ask, What if I would have done this or that?
I will say, raising kids and working is challenging.

Tonight I was thinking, time does go by fast. I'm 35 and my youngest will be 18 in 12 years. That means 47 until dating! Maybe 44....
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/02/13 03:59 PM
Quote
Tonight I was thinking, time does go by fast. I'm 35 and my youngest will be 18 in 12 years. That means 47 until dating! Maybe 44....
a couple weeks ago this:
Quote
I haven't had sex for more than a year. I have decided to heed Dr Harley's advice against remarriage and not date until after my kids are grown, which is only 12 years from now. I personally struggle with no sexual activity at all, especially no masturbation. It is really a struggle between mind and body.
Jedi, I think MB/Harley forbids porn; but not masturbation. I don't understand the benefit of this level of deprivation.
smile

opt
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/03/13 03:33 AM
Opt I understand but The Church views masturbation as sinful because (a) it does not procreate and (b) if I masturbate I have sinful thoughts.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/03/13 03:35 AM
Well I was served with the foreclosure paperwork today.
Worst possible timing too.
Im nearly broke and the business is under but I just need to hang in there !
I need to pay an atty $500 and he will keep us in the house several more months.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/03/13 04:24 AM
Interestingly my ex wife was supposed to sign a Quit Claim Deed on the house but apparently never did because she is named as a Defendant in the foreclosure complaint
Posted By: BetrayedP Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/03/13 05:20 AM
Hang in there. Hope you catch a break soon. Take advantage of any help you can get if u need it. I will pray for you.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/03/13 06:00 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well my small contracting business is just about under.
I'm trying to hang in there but the prospects look bleak.

I do have a credit card lawsuit filed against me in small claims court. I have a pre trial hearing Tuesday on this lawsuit. I'm trying to delay collection activity as much as possible until foreclosure lawsuit so I can declare bankruptcy at that time.

The adultery and divorce really did wipe me out emotionally and financially.

I think much clearer now post divorce but at times I sometimes ask, What if I would have done this or that?
I will say, raising kids and working is challenging.

Tonight I was thinking, time does go by fast. I'm 35 and my youngest will be 18 in 12 years. That means 47 until dating! Maybe 44....

Maybe you will change your mind.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/03/13 04:51 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Opt I understand but The Church views masturbation as sinful because (a) it does not procreate and (b) if I masturbate I have sinful thoughts.

Do you use any contraceptive. Condoms, etc, because the church views that as sinful too.

Church only allows monitoring the ovulation cycle and and to avoid the fertile time of the cycle.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/03/13 05:48 PM
I don't need contraception because I am divorced.
I'm not having sex with anyone.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/03/13 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Tonight I was thinking, time does go by fast. I'm 35 and my youngest will be 18 in 12 years. That means 47 until dating! Maybe 44....

The time will go right by Jedi..

Nah we know how that will go, in this world with all the switches out there to turn us "on"

You could join a monastery and spend your time in prayer, where there were no distractions.

Hook up electrodes that shock your peepee every time you had a bad thought..

Your stuck with us until you get a new relationship to work on to occupy your time with more challanges
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/04/13 02:11 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I don't need contraception because I am divorced.
I'm not having sex with anyone.

Alright being you answered as a lawyer I will restate the question.

Have you ever used any contraception in your life?

And do not say no if your partner took the responsibility such as the pill or IUD.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/04/13 02:18 PM
Yes. I did use condoms.
But I didnt do so enthusiastically.
I hated using them.

I had a weird marriage. We only had sex at the most a dozen times a year, sometimes only 3 or 4 times a year.

We lived together about 4 months before marriage. She basically moved into my motel room (I was working out of town on assignment) after 2 or 3 dates. She was sexually crazy at that time. Always wanted sex. She got pregnant and so I asked her to marry me.
Literally the day of marriage, the sex stopped and that was basically a sexless marriage.

Im in my mid thirties and ive never had a healthy sex life. It's very frustrating.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/04/13 07:14 PM
That sounds like she just wanted to get pregnant, and trap you into a marriage. What an unhealthy situation for you.
Posted By: kerala Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/04/13 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I don't need contraception because I am divorced.
I'm not having sex with anyone.

Alright being you answered as a lawyer I will restate the question.

Have you ever used any contraception in your life?

And do not say no if your partner took the responsibility such as the pill or IUD.

I'm sorry, but is the point of this question to browbeat Jedi into admitting that he hasn't followed one particular dictate of the Catholic Church so therefore he should not follow any?

If so, that's both offensive...and pointless.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/04/13 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
That sounds like she just wanted to get pregnant, and trap you into a marriage. What an unhealthy situation for you.


Hmmmmm..What does that remind me of? twoxfourCP..twice

So now you are not in that circle of trapping a man into being a father, paying the bills. taking all the blame...

and you have done the best to get conflict resolution done on an even and above board table..

Having that become my life actually twice in my life, I can offer sympathy, and the practical help of saying.."DON'T BE A SUCKER!"

You were only 1/2 of what was supposed to be one whole person in front of the man upstairs.

Make any sense?
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/04/13 09:46 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Im in my mid thirties and ive never had a healthy sex life. It's very frustrating.

A "Healthy sex life" well now that is a wide open statement..

If you had a woman who was crazy about sex and wanted to have sex every day to calm her nerves and because it was good exercise, would that be normal to you?

What if she wanted to dress up?

If she needed it to feel loved?

If she wanted to stay pregnant? If she wanted lots of children?

What is present in a "Healthy" sex life or activity? Sensitivity or aggression and possessiveness? or both or a combination of them? What is the balance?

A total hedonistic approach would still leave us wondering if we were right, or doing what is right, or getting our fair share..

Yeah to big a question..
Posted By: PhoenixStar Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/05/13 04:38 AM
Well... I'm getting a vasectomy in mid march just to be sure that I'm done. Would have had one sooner but my WW talked me out of it.... Lol. Anyways, it's just something I don't want to have to worry about going forward. I'm sure that is viewed as bad too but you can confess and ask for foregiveness afterwards smile

As ive said before, My situation killed my carrier or at lease set me back 10 years. I was top performer for 16 years. After 18 months of this, I'm finally getting back to where I can focus so I understand exactly what you are saying.

I have my girls 50 percent of the time. It's been almost a year now. It's tougher than I thought and keeps me busy but I think it makes me a better dad. I can only imagine your situation since you are at 100 percent and pretty much alone. But JN, it seems you are doing great. Much Better than me!!! You can write a book or something when this is done.

Maybe ill take your advice and find a TV show. It would make a good lifetime movie too. Could call it "web of lawyers and the tangled webs the weave"....
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/05/13 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by kerala
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I don't need contraception because I am divorced.
I'm not having sex with anyone.

Alright being you answered as a lawyer I will restate the question.

Have you ever used any contraception in your life?

And do not say no if your partner took the responsibility such as the pill or IUD.

I'm sorry, but is the point of this question to browbeat Jedi into admitting that he hasn't followed one particular dictate of the Catholic Church so therefore he should not follow any?

If so, that's both offensive...and pointless.


No intent to brow beat. But it is relavent to point out how can one use a condom and yet find it wrong to masturbate. These things are too similar.

I can see someone justifying to steal though refuse to kill. Those two things are so totally dissimilar.

To me it does not matter whether someone picks and chooses the parts of the religion one follows.

The Catholic Church is not run by God but by men. The men running that church have done many wrongs. Crusades, persecuting scientists, inqusitition, protecting pedophile priests, stone walling making restitutions to the pedophile victims acting as a corporation protecting their phyiscal and financial assets over making amends. Dragging this process out for years inflicting more pain for the victims by dragging out the legal process to discourage more suits.

Why did God forget the 11th Comandment: The clergy shall not be hypocrite's.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/05/13 06:53 PM
God is not forgetting. These priests will get theirs first, which gives place to last -- the reward of the victims in heaven, as opposed to what the priests have to look forward to.
Posted By: WizAsst Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/05/13 08:00 PM
*** Just a gentle reminder, folks. Please keep discussions focused on MB principles. Straying off on tangents can cause unintentional hurt and misunderstanding. ***

Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/06/13 02:38 AM
Originally Posted by PhoenixStar
Well... I'm getting a vasectomy in mid march just to be sure that I'm done. Would have had one sooner but my WW talked me out of it.... Lol.

I Got my Vasectomy while my second wife was pregnant for our third child...Three was enough and there are always children to love in the world..
So that makes me proud father of four children that know I love them and stay in contact with me. The youngest is 21, the oldest is 34..

I Don't regret it at all.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/06/13 02:45 AM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Why did God forget the 11th Comandment: The clergy shall not be hypocrite's.

I Think he covered it with the first one Road.."Thou shall have no Gods above me"

Don't see clergy in any of those commandments
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/06/13 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by ConstantProcess
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Why did God forget the 11th Comandment: The clergy shall not be hypocrite's.

I Think he covered it with the first one Road.."Thou shall have no Gods above me"

Don't see clergy in any of those commandments

I don't see your point. Though I am content to say no more and do not need a response.
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/06/13 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
I don't see your point. Though I am content to say no more and do not need a response.

Thats cool road it is all about image anyways..I have nothing to prove by saying this anyways..

It just makes sense that once you have established authority,(God), the next thing was to listen to him and not make excuses.

The Clergy has no idea either cause they just like the "Idea" of obeying God.

It was like, "hey, I told you to....." Why tell it over and over to people who will not listen?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/10/13 06:52 AM
I was cleaning my dd room today and came across a picture ex ww had mailed dd.
I looked at it and became angry about why ww would do what she did.
Dr Harley addressed a caller on Friday and discussed how husbands will wait so long, then say good riddance.
I feel that happening.
If ww came back hat in hand I would be too afraid to risk a false recovery.
I was emotionally unable to run my business during her affair and am now indigent. And I hate being broke.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/10/13 06:39 PM
Question:
Ex ww has told children that she plans on attending our church.
Any suggestions on how I should respond if she shows up at church in the near future?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/10/13 07:41 PM
Email sent to Visitation Supervisor:

Good day,

I would like to inform you that when I picked up my children from the Visitation Center today DD8 told me that "mommy wants to know if I can pay her $50 for tires for the car"
I asked Dd8 how she answered and she said "I said of course daddy will"�
I then turned to Ds10 and said, jokingly, "Did Gracie really say that?" DS answered yes. �

As a general rule I do not ask my children what transpires in the visits. In this case, Dd8 asked me to buy tires for Ww as we were leaving the Center.�

I'm concerned that my children are being used to carry messages regarding adult matters such as finances between divorced parents.�

Do you have any suggestions on how this can be addressed?

Thank you.�

Jedi
Posted By: living_well Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/10/13 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Question:
Ex ww has told children that she plans on attending our church.
Any suggestions on how I should respond if she shows up at church in the near future?


Apologies if this is addressed elsewhere in your thread but is your wife a practicing Catholic? If she is not, then you should expect that this was said to wind you up and just ignore it.

If she starts attending the same church services at the same church on a regular basis, then she will be 'stalking' you and Visitation should be notified. Let them negotiate a solution.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/11/13 04:42 PM
Email received from Visittion Center:

Jedi
VC staff will address this with Ex ww
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/15/13 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Okay. Boy I'm more nervous than when I sent the exposure letters!

Here we go.
I'm sending the letter now.
Sending copies to my 2 SIL that I have relationships with.

I removed an additional paragraph based on advice I received from another forum. Here is the final letter:


Dear ex MIL

I would like to thank you for your efforts to be involved in my children's lives.�

However when we recently picked you up in December to accompany us to the skating rink, there was a strong smell of alcohol on you. I suspect that you were intoxicated.�

Throughout my marriage to your daughter there were periods of sobriety followed by relapses.�

At this time we will no longer visit with you. Please do not call, write or make any attempt to contact the children or myself.�

I am open to re-establishing a relationship in the future if you maintain sobriety for at least a year and it is verified by a third party professional or sponsor (not a family member).�

The children and I love you and hope that you will do so.�

Respectfully�

JEDI

Last night, as the kids and I were watching TV "someone" came to my front porch and left a gift bag and box addressed to the kids from "a secret admirer". I'm certain it was MIL.
This upsets me because the kids could have seen her.
I'm thinking that a formal letter of no trespass, served upon her by the Sheriff would be a logical response for not respecting my boundaries.
Any thoughts?
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/15/13 10:11 PM
What was it...candy and toys?

Unless you (or someone else) saw her deliver it, the police would probably do nothing.
Posted By: living_well Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/15/13 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Last night, as the kids and I were watching TV "someone" came to my front porch and left a gift bag and box addressed to the kids from "a secret admirer". I'm certain it was MIL.


I know finances are tight for you right now but I have had great success with a $150 Panasonic webcam. It is motion activated and stores the history of what it sees which you can then view over your browser.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/15/13 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
What was it...candy and toys?

Unless you (or someone else) saw her deliver it, the police would probably do nothing.

It was candy.
And I did not pass it on to the kids.
I know the police won't do anything but I can have the sheriff serve her with a notice of no trespass for little to no cost. I was thinking this may dissuade her from future unauthorized visits
Posted By: tccoastguard Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/17/13 11:34 AM
Might as well; it's not like you have anything to lose from it. Maybe she will take the hint.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/19/13 04:32 PM
Just when I think I have it all figured out... The kids and I are at a play park and a beautiful woman is there with her kids.
I immediately was attracted to her sexually.
If I am going to remain single I think I should just not speak to women because otherwise I won't be able to think logically.

I really like how dr Harley stresses logical thinking, absent emotions.
But there is something inside of me (hormones I suppose) that causes me to be attracted to beautiful women.
I questioned my thinking as I looked at this woman, as I felt this attraction to her.
I FELT like she was beautiful and sexually attractive. I asked myself Why do I feel this way? She could be an idiot or retarded; she could be a drunkard or addict; I don't know anything about her.

But the sexual drive was there absent any reason. The procreative drive
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/19/13 06:40 PM
email received from visitation center:

Jedi,

We have spoken to ex ww about appropriate conversation during the visits and on Feb. 10, the staff monitored the visit very closely. ww denies having this conversation with the children and the staff have been unable to substantiate inappropriate conversations.



On January 27, ww made the request (1) for staff to relay her concern regarding the cleanliness and odor of the children, (2) inappropriate conversation occurring at your home and (3) would you communicate with her (ww) using the Family Wizard program.



As we have informed ww: the Visitation Center is a neutral third party that provides a safe place for supervised visits and we encourage both parties to work on positive co-parenting for the health, welfare and future of the children.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/19/13 06:51 PM
I am submitting the court required Notice of Relocation today......I listed June 5 as the move date (school ends june 4)
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/19/13 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Just when I think I have it all figured out... The kids and I are at a play park and a beautiful woman is there with her kids.
I immediately was attracted to her sexually.
If I am going to remain single I think I should just not speak to women because otherwise I won't be able to think logically.

I really like how dr Harley stresses logical thinking, absent emotions.
But there is something inside of me (hormones I suppose) that causes me to be attracted to beautiful women.
I questioned my thinking as I looked at this woman, as I felt this attraction to her.
I FELT like she was beautiful and sexually attractive. I asked myself Why do I feel this way? She could be an idiot or retarded; she could be a drunkard or addict; I don't know anything about her.

But the sexual drive was there absent any reason. The procreative drive

I applaude your resolve to put your children's interests first. Don't forget though that you can change your mind about remaining single until they are adults.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/20/13 03:03 PM
YesTerday I submitted a notice of intent to relocate out of state with the court.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 02/20/13 06:10 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Just when I think I have it all figured out...

See this? Right there is your problem. Thinking you have it all figured out. None of us do. None of ever have it all figured out. Isn't that exciting? A never ending learning process.

smile
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/07/13 03:51 AM
I have a question.
My SIL told me that my FIL mentioned that he was going to stop by and visit the kids.
He lives in AZ. We are in Ohio.
He is traveling through.

He ended up enabling my wife in her adultery by paying an attorney for her.
He also bought her an affair phone.

Should I have anything to do with him?


Also this Chrismas he mailed $200 to his daughter (SIL) and my
MIL other daughter (he is no relation to her at all). My kids? Zero.

I sent a Facebook message to my BIL in AZ at Christmas asking for address so we could mail cards.,,, he blocked me and didn't respond.

Should I reach out to FIL or just cut him out ?
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/07/13 02:29 PM
Cut the FIL and BIL out.

While it's nice for the children to know their mother's side of the family, that should be with the condition that those relatives have morals to begin with.

Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/07/13 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I have a question.
My SIL told me that my FIL mentioned that he was going to stop by and visit the kids.
He lives in AZ. We are in Ohio.
He is traveling through.

He ended up enabling my wife in her adultery by paying an attorney for her.
He also bought her an affair phone.

Should I have anything to do with him?


Also this Chrismas he mailed $200 to his daughter (SIL) and my
MIL other daughter (he is no relation to her at all). My kids? Zero.

I sent a Facebook message to my BIL in AZ at Christmas asking for address so we could mail cards.,,, he blocked me and didn't respond.

Should I reach out to FIL or just cut him out ?
Jedi
I would confirm with the FIL that he indeed intends to "stop by." if you're like me this would constantly on your mind until you know for sure.
At that point you can either be straight and say you would rather he didn't and why not (a tough conversation probably) or just start making plans for the week (a trip to Lake Erie perhaps). He's several states away so maybe it won't be tough to duck him until he gets tired of the notion.

I drove by my ex-FIL's house yesterday (may her Rest In Peace). Speaking of Erie...
I always had respect for him for NOT financing my ex's divorce pursuit even though he could have buried me for sport (and I was always fearful of that).
Life is so complicated.
smile

opt
Posted By: Pepperband Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/07/13 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My SIL told me that my FIL mentioned that he was going to stop by and visit the kids.

Would your children enjoy a brief visit with him?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/10/13 10:31 PM
Email received from ex wife:
"
When is the egg hunt at the xxxxxx church? DD8 asked, last Sunday, if I wld go. I said I wld."

What is the proper plan B response if any?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/13/13 04:52 AM
Lately, I have Been thinking about the issue of adoption.i understand that there are millions of children without parents.

Is it reasonable and healthy for me to consider exploring adoption?

I have an 8 and 6 year old girls and a 10 year old boy.
I have full custody.
What is your opinion of exploring adoption of a boy around my kids age?

Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/13/13 12:15 PM
You are a single parent with 3 kids.

Your plate is full now.
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/13/13 01:26 PM
I agree with TheRoad......your plate is full and your current children need your full attention.

Focus on them.
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/13/13 03:48 PM
Not to be contrary but I would like to suggest that it's worth considering, after full research and some planning.

I had a full post but lost my connection (and the post). So to summarize what I had said, I think there are many positives that can come of caring for soemone in dire need. I also think foster programs and even foriegn exchange programs would be viable options.

opt
Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/13/13 06:41 PM
Fostering or exchange would be better ideas, because as the others put it, you do have a full plate. Adoption would take a ton of resources and you wouldn't have as much time to dedicate to your kids.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/13/13 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by reading
I agree with TheRoad......your plate is full and your current children need your full attention.

Focus on them.
X3. Jedi, I applaud your desire to care and nurture another soul, but I think you are too soon out of a huge life-shift with your divorce. I would suggest you not make any big life-altering decisions for a year or two, minimum.

Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/15/13 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by reading
I agree with TheRoad......your plate is full and your current children need your full attention.

Focus on them.
X3. Jedi, I applaud your desire to care and nurture another soul, but I think you are too soon out of a huge life-shift with your divorce. I would suggest you not make any big life-altering decisions for a year or two, minimum.

sounds wise, to wait a year or two.
It is interesting how empowered one feels once you get organized and out of the drama of a dysfunctional/damaging relationship. I remember thinking I was coming out of a fog after the separation and divorce was behind me. With clarity comes a sense of wanting to share and possibly have a positive influence on those around us.

opt
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/15/13 03:02 PM
I do feel like that opt
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/15/13 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I do feel like that opt
You're certainly having a positive impact on many here! I'm sure that's only a small example of what's going on in your life; there are a lot of things to be involved in a share your gifts -- perhaps things that don't carry such a lengthy time/emotional comittment for now.
maybe you can work up to the fostering idea. For the record I think you'd be a great foster dad! Have you looked into the Bigbrother organization?

opt
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/15/13 04:32 PM
No I haven't but I've become the neighborhood dad.
We always have kids over for Friday movie night and usually a kid goes with us skating during the week and hiking on the weekends, I also take kids to church
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/16/13 01:22 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
No I haven't but I've become the neighborhood dad.
We always have kids over for Friday movie night and usually a kid goes with us skating during the week and hiking on the weekends, I also take kids to church
I would suggest you concentrate on continuing these activities for now. There may be a kid who needs you right now, and God is using you to help him/her through these activities. Stay open to that possibility.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/21/13 01:30 AM
Well spring break is approaching and we will be spending a couple days camping!

http://www.nps.gov/cuga/index.htm

I called the park ranger and reserved a cabin for the kids and I. It's only $10 a night!
We hike in about 4 miles to get to it.

Ive been taking the kids hiking every Saturday to get them prepared for camping and I'm so excited that spring is finally around the corner!
Posted By: ConstantProcess Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/21/13 02:04 AM
Awesome daddi Jedi..Your a Knight in my book
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/22/13 12:25 AM
Jedi, I've read a couple of books about parenting; in the time since I was divorced (including one I read with NG). I was well advised by people here and other sources because they turned out to be filled with great wisdom and have helped me see parenting in a new and effective way. Most of the philosophy goes right along with MB principles, so I know it's on target.

One common thread idea has been that divorced parents have some nasty habits when it comes to their individual parenting styles. They tend to act out of guilt and regret, and wind up coddling their kids into a state of spoiled dysfunction.

I don't see you doing this. (unless you plan to carry 4 backpacks for 4 miles...). smile
I like the challenges you put forth for your kids to learn from and it seems to me you're smart enough to hold them accountable for themselves and instill responsibility, even in the midst of adversity.

I applaud your latest plan and your efforts to do the right thing.

opt
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/24/13 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well spring break is approaching and we will be spending a couple days camping!

http://www.nps.gov/cuga/index.htm

I called the park ranger and reserved a cabin for the kids and I. It's only $10 a night!
We hike in about 4 miles to get to it.

Ive been taking the kids hiking every Saturday to get them prepared for camping and I'm so excited that spring is finally around the corner!
Jedi, this is so cool! My kids are adults and still like to go cabin camping in the national parks.
Make sure you find out about neat caves and natural formations to hike to see. And take plenty of pictures! smile
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/24/13 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Okay. Boy I'm more nervous than when I sent the exposure letters!

Here we go.
I'm sending the letter now.
Sending copies to my 2 SIL that I have relationships with.

I removed an additional paragraph based on advice I received from another forum. Here is the final letter:


Dear ex MIL

I would like to thank you for your efforts to be involved in my children's lives.�

However when we recently picked you up in December to accompany us to the skating rink, there was a strong smell of alcohol on you. I suspect that you were intoxicated.�

Throughout my marriage to your daughter there were periods of sobriety followed by relapses.�

At this time we will no longer visit with you. Please do not call, write or make any attempt to contact the children or myself.�

I am open to re-establishing a relationship in the future if you maintain sobriety for at least a year and it is verified by a third party professional or sponsor (not a family member).�

The children and I love you and hope that you will do so.�

Respectfully�

JEDI

Okay. I got a voicemail from MIL today.
She said, "Hi Jedi. I know that you didn't want me to call you for a long time but I've kind of gone crazy lately.
Can you please talk to me and let me know how the kids are doing. Even if you don't let me talk to them just let me know that they are happy and okay. I'm really ashamed "

Question: based on the boundaries from the letter I sent her, I should not respond.
Is that correct?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/24/13 04:38 PM
Shes called three times today.
Usually when she gets emotional is when she starts binge drinking.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/24/13 05:22 PM
Ex ww just called my cell phone and left a message.
I thought I had her blocked through sprint but apparently only text messages are blocked.

I deleted the message without listening to a single word of it.

I will try to get her blocked ASAP
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/24/13 06:44 PM
Okay I went to sprint online and I think that MIL and ww are now blocked from voice calls.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/24/13 08:17 PM
Are you like a crazy-magnet or something?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/24/13 08:59 PM
The kids returned from visitation with ww and they said MIL was in hospital for "amnesia" ( which I interpret as more lies from ww to conceal alcoholism)

Based on prior experience I assume MIL got drunk and was taken to the hospital by ww.

Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/24/13 10:40 PM
So sad. So very very sad. While I respect your right to parent your children as you see fit, I would also see no harm in having a brief conversation with their grandmother to let her know they are doing well.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/24/13 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by SmilingWoman
So sad. So very very sad. While I respect your right to parent your children as you see fit, I would also see no harm in having a brief conversation with their grandmother to let her know they are doing well.

I have thought about doing this.
However AlAnon meetings have taught me: Never make a threat you are unwilling to keep.
If I break down MY own boundaries, the alcoholic will only take advantage of my sympathy.



Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/25/13 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Ex ww just called my cell phone and left a message.
I thought I had her blocked through sprint but apparently only text messages are blocked.

I deleted the message without listening to a single word of it.

I will try to get her blocked ASAP

Well I thought I deleted her voice message but apparently it was still
On my iPhone (but deleted on sprint network).
I heard her first few words "I know I'm not supposed to call but...." and stopped listening.

I deleted all of the messages on my iPhone (I didn't know they were saved on the phone in addition to the network) and hers was the very last.
I was so tempted to listen. To hear what she called to tell me. Would there be remorse in her words? Anger? Sadness?

In the end i deleted it and am glad I didn't listen.

The kids and I prayed for ww and MIL tonight. I have explained alcoholism to them so they understand what is happening and we prayed that God would bless grandma and she would choose to stop drinking and enter a rehab program.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/25/13 01:38 AM
I found out that I had voicemails stored on my phone that were a year old!
I delete most.
I kept a few of ex ww yelling at me as a reminder for when I feel sentimental and wear my rose colored glasses.
I had hundreds of voicemails. I never knew I had to delete them from the iPhone itself.

I am glad I al away from that chaos.
I did a plan A during divorce , about 7 months.
I don't think I could do it any longer.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/25/13 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
If I break down MY own boundaries, the alcoholic will only take advantage of my sympathy.

If I remember right, you've been down that road a few times before.

Is it court-ordered that your ex-wife have your phone number?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/25/13 03:15 PM
No. It is court ordered that she has free communication with the kids.
I have a house phone that is exclusively dedicated for that purpose.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 03/25/13 03:25 PM
Then changing cell numbers seems the easiest way to avoid any surprise contact when she decides to start using an unblocked number.

It's one less thing to worry with, you know?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/14/13 04:00 AM
I have been thinking lately, and I do not desire to remain unmarried for the next 12 years.
Dr Harley recently encouraged a single man to become friends with many women. Which, as Joyce commented, is completely opposite what is normally spoken of in MB.
How does a man become friends with women?

My interim proposed plan is as follows:

Become friends with women (preferably single moms which will help me get a single parent network I really need);

After 2 years of divorce, start dating.

Any thoughts?

I am aware of the high rate of divorce in remarriages; however someone recently posted that Harley said single dads that remarry but better percentile of success?

But as I read the book Atlas Shrugged I become more happy about life. I don't know if it's coincidence or a change in perception but I am starting to really enjoy to live!

I am broke and literally starting over in life but so excited!

I have a very religious background and was in a mostly sexless marriage for 10 years. I have been listening to the MB radio show daily for about 6 months and am very convinced that I could have a rewarding, sexually fulfilling marriage. As I read Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead I increasingly feel that I am the master of my destiny. I have a mind. A mind given to me by God. Instead of surrendering my fate to mysticism I can be the master of my destiny.

Edit: also after reading of the amazing story of Justthe3ofus and TQs story which is similar to my own, I have decided I would be open to considering reconciling with my ex wife IF she met MB conditions.
However lately I have been feeling much better and really indifferent to my ex wife's fate.
And she does have some sort of mental disorder. There have been posters that argued against this but In a recent visit with her sister (who has a masters in Psychology) the sister told me she believes ww sometimes has a hard time separating reality from her reality and that she imagines conversations. So in light of that I am accepting there have been serious mental issues present and not just "wayward fog" and that a condition for dating would be proper medical treatment and taking medication (and not just pretending to take it)

Maybe If she took medication she could follow the POJA?



Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/17/13 01:37 PM
Well I shared my plan on Facebook (my only friends on there are relatives).
These are the responses I got:

From cousin:
Cousin sounds like a good idea but do everything whenever you feel God is leading you in that direction

From Aunt:
don't even think of going backwards......think of your kids state of mind from a year ago and now.........keep them healthy

From Father:
Ww is a good choice you can spend your life moving and looking for a mold free house and the kids can drop out of school and eat cheerios three times a day and Ww can have her time alone time and sneak off to see the drug addict boyfriend and your alcoholic mother in law can live with you again.

From cousin:
Ditto what Father said...don't let being lonely pul you backwards!!

From father:
Jedi I know being alone with the kids is sad and lonely but you are a good father and person you will be rewarded with a fine companion sooner than you think and enjoy having no women nagging you for a while.Even the good ones nag.

From grandmother:
Father is right...don't even think of going "backwards" it would only lead to more grief, and who needs that???

From sister:
if you go back with Ww I'd punch you in hopes it would knock some common sense in! she's a a crappy mother that chose a drug addict over her own children!
Posted By: Wow777 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/17/13 02:40 PM
It sounds like you have a caring family Jedi. Do they live near you? They must be a great support network if they do.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/17/13 03:46 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Maybe If she took medication she could follow the POJA?

This is such a huge "if" that it needs it's own zip code.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/17/13 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I have been thinking lately, and I do not desire to remain unmarried for the next 12 years.
Dr Harley recently encouraged a single man to become friends with many women. Which, as Joyce commented, is completely opposite what is normally spoken of in MB.
How does a man become friends with women?

My interim proposed plan is as follows:

Become friends with women (preferably single moms which will help me get a single parent network I really need);

After 2 years of divorce, start dating.

Any thoughts?

I am aware of the high rate of divorce in remarriages; however someone recently posted that Harley said single dads that remarry but better percentile of success?

But as I read the book Atlas Shrugged I become more happy about life. I don't know if it's coincidence or a change in perception but I am starting to really enjoy to live!

I am broke and literally starting over in life but so excited!

I have a very religious background and was in a mostly sexless marriage for 10 years. I have been listening to the MB radio show daily for about 6 months and am very convinced that I could have a rewarding, sexually fulfilling marriage. As I read Atlas Shrugged and the Fountainhead I increasingly feel that I am the master of my destiny. I have a mind. A mind given to me by God. Instead of surrendering my fate to mysticism I can be the master of my destiny.

I think this part of your post is a fine plan. The other part about reconciling with your wxw, no.

I never heard dr. Harley say single men shouldn't have female friends. That is generally the pool from which potential mates is drawn.

I met my dh through mutual friends.....mutual friends that we both highly respect and whose judgment we value. We both have kids and it does present challenges...but I am so thankful and happy to have my dh. He has been such a blessing to me and made my life so happy.



Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/18/13 01:39 AM
My mom also added to the comments on my idea:

"dating ww would only give the kids false hope ....WHY you would want to date the lying,evil [censored] is beyond me...if you do,then start starving your kids and tell dd8 she is a little freak so they can get used to being with their LOVELY mother.i agree with your sister...i will punch you .
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/18/13 01:44 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My mom also added to the comments on my idea:

"dating ww would only give the kids false hope ....WHY you would want to date the lying,evil [censored] is beyond me...if you do,then start starving your kids and tell dd8 she is a little freak so they can get used to being with their LOVELY mother.i agree with your sister...i will punch you .

I like your extended family, JK. I really like your mom grin
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/18/13 02:25 AM
Yesterday, while in the checkout isle of Walmart, the lady behind me quietly told me that dd6 grabbed some candy and put it in her pocket.

I took it from my daughter and placed it back on the shelf.
In the car, I told her I know she was trying to steal it and that stealing is wrong and against the law.

I told her she would have no candy for the next 2 weeks, and no daily popcicle.

In the past she has stolen candy from her siblings.

Any thoughts?
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/18/13 03:15 AM
You did what you needed to do.

Lots of children that age want candy and take it.

They just need an adult to explain that it is wrong and against the law.

Period.

Oh.....you could tell her to ask you for it if she wants some or could suggest she have an allowance for purchasing things she wants.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/18/13 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Maybe If she took medication she could follow the POJA?

Aside from the POJA issue there are other things for you to consider.

Such as just how DIFFICULT recovery is. It's no cake-walk.

I just happened to read an old post by MarriedForever talking about how horrible Recovery was compared to the Plan B she just came out of. I thought "How true! Plan B has been wonderful for me compared to recovery".

And that's for a normal recovery. Add in other factors (such as if it was a LTA or serial cheating), that makes recovery that much HARDER.

For you the fact that there are problems with her family (xFIL supported her waywardism, etc) and that you have been through the hell of D with her. It's just so much more damage and resentment to overcome than the average A which is bad enough.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/18/13 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
...i will punch you .
rotflmao
Posted By: Pepperband Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/18/13 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by reading
Lots of children that age want candy and take it.

We had our son take the small stolen item back to the sales person, and apologize.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/18/13 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My mom also added to the comments on my idea:

"dating ww would only give the kids false hope ....WHY you would want to date the lying,evil [censored] is beyond me...if you do,then start starving your kids and tell dd8 she is a little freak so they can get used to being with their LOVELY mother.i agree with your sister...i will punch you .

If I had to go door-to-door to every house in the country to find you, I'd punch you, too! smile
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/19/13 12:25 AM
Hey Jedi,

Looks like you are doing fine!
I was surprised you were considering to take her back there for a moment. Good to see your family disagrees.

Quote
How does a man become friends with women?
Maybe I can help with that after a good night rest.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/20/13 06:41 PM
How do I make female friends?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/20/13 07:47 PM
Take a cooking class.
Posted By: Pineneedle Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/20/13 07:54 PM
sign up with a running group
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/20/13 08:47 PM
Try to not be so mysterious crazy

Try a meet up group.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/20/13 10:10 PM
This is entirely new because I never had female friends before.
Do men and women just be friends like going to coffee?
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/21/13 09:19 PM
I think I read you are involved in a church. Aren't there single women there?

Cooking class is great idea.

Single parent groups.

Divorce groups.

Tell your friends you want to broaden out and meet people. Make friends in general...the single female part will come.
Posted By: 6877 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/22/13 12:19 AM
All those ideas are great. I agree with SW, the female part will come with trying anything new. I would be careful with only going in with the intention of friendship.

Women love to laugh, so be funny smile.
Posted By: 6877 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/22/13 12:21 AM
I just thought of something Jedi, b/c I know we have talked about this way back ago. If you belong to a gym, take some of there classes that they have, kickboxing, spin, or whatever. They are usually full of women and the men tend to get extra attention b/c there is so few of them.
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/22/13 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
How do I make female friends?
JK, I'd like to take a crack at this one. smile
It sounds to me like you are concerned a "friendship" will evolve into something more than what you intend.

So, from an MB perspective, perhaps you could use reverse engineering. How do we develop romantic relationships? We engage in intimate conversation, recreational companionship, affection (SF - which is already off the table) and try to spend 15 hours of undevided attention.

So, to me, if you can refrain from too much of any one or all of those concepts you could have a "friendship" that never got into the romantic realm.

[I would be concerned about physical attraction, though, as it is a powerful drug and can push the "love units" into a threshold (even though they are possibly fake love units). -- this is where dating and the concepts of stages like "infatuation" and "disillusionment" can be of particular interest. --maybe AGG would chime in on the topic sooner or later.]

opt

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/22/13 03:24 PM
My grandmother suggested I join parents Without Partners.
I went to their website and am attending an orientation meeting this Thursday
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/23/13 12:08 PM
You're not going to have any trouble meeting women. I'm quite confident of that. I thought you were wondering how to be "friends" with them.

I believe the religious based dating web sites ask preferences and beliefs -- like if you believe in premarital sex. You can focus your searches with that information.

opt
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/23/13 12:27 PM
Opt I don't know the line between friendship and dating
I've avoided women most of my married adult life.
Posted By: Pineneedle Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/23/13 01:02 PM
Why don't you go out and enjoy people, enjoy the human beings, regardless of the sex they are? Enjoy life, enjoy people!
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/23/13 01:34 PM
I think it is so cool that your grandmother is giving you advise on meeting people. Sounds like you have great family support.

As far as the line between friends and dating......it is friends until it is dating. smile

Be honest and keep your integrity. Also, do you have a list made of the top important traits you desire in a woman? It is important to get that list made before you start dating anyone, because you will be unduly influenced if you try to make the list while dating. Of course you don't show anyone the list....except us for discussion of course. wink

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/23/13 01:47 PM
Well I don't want to date yet.i just want to become friends with women as Harley recommended to a recent caller
I'm in NO position to date financially.

I'm afraid to make a list because I don't want to dye anyone with a personality disorder or untreated adult child of alcoholic.

I'm afraid that for some reason I am attracted to women with issues and I don't know why that is. I'm afraid that I dont know what a normal healthy woman is, and even then if she is normal and healthy won't she already be married? I also have 3 kids.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/23/13 04:00 PM
All the more reason to make the list my friend.

And if you just want to meet people including women but you don't want to date yet, it is a good time period to tweak your list. As you observe women and even observe other marriages you will become familiar with what you find healthy and attractive.

Posted By: 6877 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/24/13 01:21 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I'm afraid that for some reason I am attracted to women with issues and I don't know why that is. I'm afraid that I dont know what a normal healthy woman is, and even then if she is normal and healthy won't she already be married? I also have 3 kids.


I often think of this about myself and I think it could be true. You could be attracted to women with issues. All the more reason to make a list and stick to it. It's something that I know I will do in the future when I'm ready to start dating.

I hope not every man thinks that way about women. I won't be taken and I may stay single for a very long time, that doesn't make me unhealthy. It probably makes me more healthy.

Let us know what steps you take, it could be interesting.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/28/13 02:39 AM
Well I went to a Parents Without Partners meeting...but nobody was there.
I called the number on the website but 2 days have passed and no return call. I think this may be a dead chapter with a website.

In the meantime I started a garden. In the last 2 days I've planted:
Abt 120 onions
100 carrots
16 tomato
45 lettuce
16 broccoli
16 spinach
16 cucumber
Parsley (about 20 ft row)
Lots of marigolds mixed in the rows
8 hot peppers
8 bell peppers
10 Hungarian peppers

And I'm now starting to dig up the back yard grass and plant corn and squash.

I may convert the entire back yard to garden
Posted By: Pineneedle Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/28/13 03:48 PM
Lord have mercy on you! That is going to be a lot of work, but so rewarding, you'll curse and love it at the same time!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/14/13 01:51 PM
I had a bad, restless dream last night.
Ex ww was in the dream, asking about reconciliation.
I gave her the SAA book and she said she was willing to follow it.

I think reading about affairs on SAA caused this dream.

I know Dr Harley encourages men to plan A for years and yesterday's caller had plan A for nearly 2 years. Like yesterday's caller, whose wife left him for another woman, I would be too much of an emotional wreck to Plan A.

My short plan A was all I could do. When I listened to that caller, who lost 40 pounds, I thought "Plan A is insanity"

I thought "There is no way I would want to attempt any recovery because it's just too much emotional stress"



Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/14/13 02:00 PM
Quote
I thought "There is no way I would want to attempt any recovery because it's just too much emotional stress"
Dr. Harley would also be the first to tell you that it is your right, as the BS, to just move on. You don't HAVE to Plan A if you don't want to save the marriage.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/21/13 04:03 AM
The kids and I had a good weekend.
DD6 and DD8 completed their first 5K!
This was DS eighth 5K!

I placed first in the men's age group and celebrated by running 9 1/2 miles the following day.

On a separate question, I want to make female friends.
I met a single lady (our daughters play soccor together).
The girls wanted to have a sleepover.
This is scheduled for this weekend.
I spoke with this woman a couple of times, and enjoyed speaking with her; she is a Christian.

Trying to develop a friendship, should I ask
Her to have coffee at a coffee shop or dinner at my house?

If so, how long should I wait before asking her?
Posted By: kerala Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/21/13 04:11 AM
Do not lead off with dinner!!

Slow and easy, like coffee, first.

See how the first playdates go before approaching her for alone time.
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/21/13 02:35 PM
I think even just asking her for coffee is going to sound like a date ...

Jedi, I apologize if someone has already recommended this to you but have you tried Meetup.com? There are tons of groups for people seeking friends with similar interests - for example, there are groups for those who like going to the movies, runners, singles, single parents, people who like to get together and knit, divorce support groups, wine enthusiast groups - you just join the ones you might find interesting and when they create events you just sign up and show up. No pressure at all, and in my experience the quality and quantity of women is always greater than of men so it may be a great way for you to make female (and male) friends.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/21/13 03:02 PM
I haven't heard of meetup.
I will check it out.
Thanks
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 02:05 AM
Update:
I sent a text to the lady, explaining that we go skating every Tuesday and DD8 would love it if her friend could come. Here's the text exchange:

Me:Hello, I take the kids skating Tuesday evenings. DD8 would love to skate with Your DD sometime if she skates

Her: OK sure My DD likes to skate. when and where
I mean what time and where?

Me: (time and place)

Her:we will meet you there

Me: Great! We'll see you there

Her: :-) :-) :-)

They arrive and she explains that she lost her debit card, dropped it between the car and the door. I offered to pay the admission fee and skate fee (around $10 total) and help her look for her card.
We looked near her car and couldn't find it; she called and cancelled it; then we walked in and it was inside the building, about two feet from the door on the floor.

I also brought a neighborhood boy with us and it turns out they know each other and her daughter plays with him.

My daughter had a great time having a friend with her.
I spoke with this lady briefly (she has a 2 year old so she was busy with her baby daughter)

She is never married; she has DD8 and DD2.
The fathers are deadbeats that have been absent for years.
I don't know if she works or is on welfare.
She is attractive; she is also black and I'm white which I know can be some culture differences.
She is clearly a renter.

Any thoughts?
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 03:04 AM
Take her for coffee!
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 03:08 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Her: :-) :-) :-)

That's a pretty good sign. smile
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 01:06 PM
Originally Posted by markos
Take her for coffee!

I agree take her for coffee.

You are doing fine....just live your life and be kind and reach out sometimes and take a hand when others reach out and one day when you least expect it you will have female friends and one of them might lead to more when you are ready.
Posted By: living_well Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Update:
I sent a text to the lady, explaining that we go skating every Tuesday and DD8 would love it if her friend could come. Here's the text exchange:

Me:Hello, I take the kids skating Tuesday evenings. DD8 would love to skate with Your DD sometime if she skates

Her: OK sure My DD likes to skate. when and where
I mean what time and where?

Me: (time and place)

Her:we will meet you there

Me: Great! We'll see you there

Her: :-) :-) :-)


I'm uncomfortable with this. Lovely that your daughter has a friend and lovely that you are mixing with other singles. My discomfort is that I feel these should be kept as separate activities. I don't think your daughter should be around your dates. You should mix/date with women that appeal to you. By all means tell your children you are going out but your children should not meet them until you have been dating someone exclusively for 6 months.

Why? It avoid the temptation of using the children as a bonding tool. A lone father-parent is a very attractive concept for many women.

You need to find someone that is right for YOU, not for your daughter. If she is right for you, your daughter will love her and she will love them.

You don't want her bonding with someone who may eventually disappear. This is too traumatic for a motherless little girl.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 03:26 PM
Living well,
I'm not dating her.
At this point I am trying to become friends as Dr Harley suggests.

How else can I develop friendships with other single parents?
I don't want to date for another year
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 03:37 PM
She wasn't his date. Yet.
But I think she should be.
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 06:37 PM
Maybe I'm jilted, jaded and paranoid but to me it seems a bit suspect that she just happened to lose her credit card, just happened to know the number to get it cancelled in the parking lot(which in my experience takes some time on the phone by the time you're transferred from one person to the next) and then just happened to find it on the floor 2 seconds later. Also two children by two separate men (that's the impression I have) ... it sounds like she may not be a good partner for you. (I know, I sound judgmental but I can't help it.)

But you said you have no interest in dating her. Maybe I missed why you're looking specifically for female friends instead of fellow single male parent-friends, but if you ask her to coffee with you, and you pay (again) she, in her mind, will think you're dating. If a man asks me for coffee, and especially if he pays, I think he wants to date me or we're on a date. I suppose you could make your intention clear to her upfront. Are you okay with a friendship with a woman which from your POV was strictly platonic but from her POV was potentially romantic?

I agree that it will be confusing for your kids to have a female figure around even if that female figure in your mind is just a friend.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by JustMe385
Maybe I'm jilted, jaded and paranoid but to me it seems a bit suspect that she just happened to lose her credit card, just happened to know the number to get it cancelled in the parking lot(which in my experience takes some time on the phone by the time you're transferred from one person to the next) and then just happened to find it on the floor 2 seconds later. Also two children by two separate men (that's the impression I have) ... it sounds like she may not be a good partner for you. (I know, I sound judgmental but I can't help it.)

But you said you have no interest in dating her. Maybe I missed why you're looking specifically for female friends instead of fellow single male parent-friends, but if you ask her to coffee with you, and you pay (again) she, in her mind, will think you're dating. If a man asks me for coffee, and especially if he pays, I think he wants to date me or we're on a date. I suppose you could make your intention clear to her upfront. Are you okay with a friendship with a woman which from your POV was strictly platonic but from her POV was potentially romantic?

I agree that it will be confusing for your kids to have a female figure around even if that female figure in your mind is just a friend.

I was also suspicious of the lost card but I'm guilty of locking myself out of my car in the past. She did say she owed me the money back

Regarding female friends, this is what Dr Harley told a single man to do. He said learn to become friends with women
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 06:52 PM
Seems to be that if her goal was just to get you to pay for it all by claiming to lose her card, it would have just been easier to leave her card at home rather than pretend to find it later ...
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 06:57 PM
If your goal is to become friends, why not invite her and a few other single parents over for a cookout or something? It would seem less like a date if there are several people there.
Posted By: living_well Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
She wasn't his date. Yet.
But I think she should be.


On that we will just have to disagree. I think the dates and the children should be kept separate :-)
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/22/13 07:08 PM
I think the group setting is the way to go here. Relaxed setting, less pressure and this way you have the opportunity to make several friends.

It just seems that if you want to avoid dating anyone yet, but you begin to spend one-on-one time with a woman, you will end up meeting each other's ENs and then the next thing you know you're dating.
Posted By: Pineneedle Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/23/13 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
She is never married; she has DD8 and DD2.
The fathers are deadbeats that have been absent for years.
I don't know if she works or is on welfare.
She is attractive; she is also black and I'm white which I know can be some culture differences.
She is clearly a renter.

Any thoughts?

You know the signs of BPD right? Read this over and over again, you are going right back into this; inability to sustain relationships and externalization of blame.

Be friendly, but in a group setting. I *love* how she played the damsel in distress (BPD) with the credit card.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/23/13 06:21 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
If your goal is to become friends, why not invite her and a few other single parents over for a cookout or something? It would seem less like a date if there are several people there.

I agree. I love it that he is reaching out to make friends. It is a really good way to determine what qualities he desires.

Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/23/13 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by Pineneedle
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
She is never married; she has DD8 and DD2.
The fathers are deadbeats that have been absent for years.
I don't know if she works or is on welfare.
She is attractive; she is also black and I'm white which I know can be some culture differences.
She is clearly a renter.

Any thoughts?



You know the signs of BPD right? Read this over and over again, you are going right back into this; inability to sustain relationships and externalization of blame.

Be friendly, but in a group setting. I *love* how she played the damsel in distress (BPD) with the credit card.

I would have to have more info before making such a judgment.

I would like to know what she has been doing with her life since she got pregnant with her youngest child. Maybe she has seen the light and living differently now.

And if she is really such a user that she would go to the trouble to fake a lost card that will be evident soon enough.
Posted By: Gamma Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/23/13 06:47 PM
JK,

There is a bit of an issue with your still being dazed from your divorce, it's likely you will chose someone with the same defects as your ExW.

She did say she owed me the money back

Easy test here, don't mention anything, if she pays you back without prompting it's one sign of honesty.

Whatever you do you need to keep your eyes open for any signs of secretive behavior or anything she is not forthcoming about.

The two baby daddies are a major issue as well, as losers have a way of reinserting themselves into ex'es lives when the ex regains the means to support them. Remember both of these ex'es are guys that readily abandoned their own children.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/24/13 05:33 PM
My gut feeling is to be wary of her also.
The girls have a sleepover at my house Sunday night.
After this I know the girl is staying with her aunt out of state for the summer so that should end seeing her, as soccor is also ending this week.

When I spoke with her Wednesday at soccor, she told me she is 7th day Adventist and questioned why I work on the Sabbath.
I didn't really respond other than to say that I'm not seventh day Adventist;
She told me she goes to three different churches on Saturday.

My gut feeling is that the credit card issue was a lie.
She also didnt pay me back on Wednesday.

The parents without partners chapter did contact me; they are active.
So I will check them
Out
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/24/13 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My gut feeling is to be wary of her also.

No matter who you start developing friendships with, start out as a freeloader.

Quote
When I spoke with her Wednesday at soccor, she told me she is 7th day Adventist and questioned why I work on the Sabbath.
I didn't really respond other than to say that I'm not seventh day Adventist;
She told me she goes to three different churches on Saturday.

Oh my -- that would really make for an interesting POJA situation!! BTW, several of the people who post here are 7DA.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/24/13 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My gut feeling is to be wary of her also.
The girls have a sleepover at my house Sunday night.
After this I know the girl is staying with her aunt out of state for the summer so that should end seeing her, as soccor is also ending this week.

When I spoke with her Wednesday at soccor, she told me she is 7th day Adventist and questioned why I work on the Sabbath.
I didn't really respond other than to say that I'm not seventh day Adventist;
She told me she goes to three different churches on Saturday.

My gut feeling is that the credit card issue was a lie.
She also didnt pay me back on Wednesday.

The parents without partners chapter did contact me; they are active.
So I will check them
Out

The bolded is a big problem, as it speaks to character. If I had lost my debit card and a man I barely knew offered to pay my way in, I would be doing back flips to make sure it was paid back immediately.

And the 2 kids with two different men, neither of which she married, is also a problem.

Lots of good decent women out there...you have to be careful who you let into your life because you are very vulnerable to being used.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/25/13 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Update:



She is never married; she has DD8 and DD2.
The fathers are deadbeats that have been absent for years.
I don't know if she works or is on welfare.
She is attractive; she is also black and I'm white which I know can be some culture differences.
She is clearly a renter.

Any thoughts?



Why are you going from the frying pan into the fire?

You need a check up from the neck up.

Hello the lights are on but I do not think any one is at home.



Originally Posted by markos
Take her for coffee!



I think your meds must be off for you to give advice other then run for the hills as fast as he can to get away from this woman.


Originally Posted by Pineneedle
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
She is never married; she has DD8 and DD2.
The fathers are deadbeats that have been absent for years.
I don't know if she works or is on welfare.
She is attractive; she is also black and I'm white which I know can be some culture differences.
She is clearly a renter.

Any thoughts?

You know the signs of BPD right? Read this over and over again, you are going right back into this; inability to sustain relationships and externalization of blame.

Be friendly, but in a group setting. I *love* how she played the damsel in distress (BPD) with the credit card.



Be friendly no way Jose. Be polite but do not encourage this renter in any way shape or form.



Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/25/13 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by markos
Take her for coffee!



I think your meds must be off for you to give advice other then run for the hills as fast as he can to get away from this woman.

lol, well we do know a little more about her, now.

But, seriously, there's no harm to come from dating a few people you'd probably never get serious about. It's a good way to get your toes back in the water.

Quote
Be friendly no way Jose. Be polite but do not encourage this renter in any way shape or form.

Actually when people start dating they should be freeloaders.

For example, they might start by just going to coffee with no other expectations.

Where people go wrong is where they have one date and then stick with that person until there's some serious reason to leave. They get emotionally invested just from the excitement of the date and stick with a loser. Far better to date around, several people, start to get an idea of who really does the best job of meeting your emotional needs.

After you have some perspective you can progress a relationship from freeloaders to renters to buyers.

"Buyer," "Renter," "Freeloader" are not types of people. They are approaches to relationships. People who start out as Buyers are asking for trouble; they are asking to get stuck in a relationship with a permanent renter or freeloader.

So if the lady is a renter -- that's too committed!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/27/13 03:55 AM
Okay her daughter is at my house for a sleepover tonight.
When she dropped her off she visited for nearly 3 hours.
There were some text exchanges also later, asking about her daughter but also complementing me.

I have been careful not to be other than polite.

She does ask questions, such as what my long term plans in life are etc.
She also told me that she attends a weekly class on marriage.

The marriage issue came up when dd6 asked if she had a husband.
All my kids hear the MB radio show daily so they mentioned that I know about marriage.

She asked about the show I listen to and I answered and explained the MB Radio show app.

I'm very concerned since you warned me that she may be BPD.
Posted By: kerala Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/27/13 08:12 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I'm very concerned since you warned me that she may be BPD.

Jedi. Please.

You cannot take everything everyone says as gospel truth!! If what you have revealed in your very brief descriptors are signs of BPD then it would appear that half the country is affected.

Just keep your wits about you and use your common sense.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/27/13 12:34 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Okay her daughter is at my house for a sleepover tonight.
When she dropped her off she visited for nearly 3 hours.
There were some text exchanges also later, asking about her daughter but also complementing me.

I have been careful not to be other than polite.

She does ask questions, such as what my long term plans in life are etc.
She also told me that she attends a weekly class on marriage.

The marriage issue came up when dd6 asked if she had a husband.
All my kids hear the MB radio show daily so they mentioned that I know about marriage.

She asked about the show I listen to and I answered and explained the MB Radio show app.

I'm very concerned since you warned me that she may be BPD.

I wouldn't look @ it as BPD, but I would look at her as someone who uses external locust of control. She has some very bad habits and they will likely take her a long while to build better habits.

She sees you as a stable father something I am 100% positive she is searching for her own kids. Be very weary of this because she likely doesn't have any idea on how to care properly for others...instead she looks for quick emotional needs fixes that get her into trouble.

You are getting your own self healed...believe in what you deserve.

Watch the habits they have....they will help you to steer clear of those fixer up damsel in distress kind of women.
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/27/13 03:38 PM
Nope. You just don't need a damsel in distress.

Keep your eyes out for potential other women to date and get to know and
don't latch on to the first possible lady.

: )
Posted By: Pineneedle Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/27/13 04:24 PM
We don't know she has BPD! But this damsel in distress mode, and trying to conform YOUR life are certainly redflag s

Be a freeloader, have fun! Make friends, you don't have to date her, you can still be friends!
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/27/13 11:35 PM
Quote
I'm very concerned since you warned me that she may be BPD.
Jedi, I'm not sure (not going to go back and re-read) who suggested BPD, but none of us are qualified to suggest such a thing. I didn't get that impression, myself.

Here are my thoughts:
She is the mother of your kids' friend. Treat her as such, like you would any other mother. Friendly, kindly, with compassion and humor. So she lost her card. It happens. Do I find that a little suspect? Yes, I do. But it does happen. (Flag: she should have gone out of her way to pay you back, unless you waved it off. If you said "Hey, don't worry about it" you just picked up the tab. If that were me, I still would have tried to repay you, but many people will accept that statement at face value and will call it even. She may even have gotten the impression that you were picking up the tab because you issued the invitation.)So I'm not going to spend time on that part of the evening.

My flags: a never-married mother with TWO kids that far apart in age tells me there are two other men, minimum, in her life with whom she procreated. I don't care if she's a Christian or a Steelers fan - she appears to not respect the institution of marriage.

I don't think it's wrong for you to be friends with this woman. But I certainly DO think you should proceed carefully. And I think you will do that. smile
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/27/13 11:51 PM
Okay her daughter spent the night.shes a sweet well behaved girl and they get along well.
When she dropped her daughter off, she stayed and watched part of the movie (home alone) for about 2 hours.

We woke up, I cooked pancakes and sausage and took the kids to a museum.
When she came to pick up her daughter she stayed for another 2 hours!
She kept talking and talking.
She suggested that I should hire a housekeeper to clean my house. (I didnt ask for her opinion).
Then she asked me when my ww left and told me that people have affairs when their needs aren't being met.
She then told me she got married about 7 years ago and was only married a short time but "isn't really divorced". She said she hasnt seen him for 5 years.

I would have never had personal conversation with her if I knew she was married.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/27/13 11:57 PM
How should I stop this friendly relationship from developing further and reverse it back to parental (kids in soccor) acquaintances?

Even though she hasn't seen her husband for 5 years it would violate MB rules for me to be friendly on a personal level with her
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/28/13 12:12 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
How should I stop this friendly relationship from developing further and reverse it back to parental (kids in soccor) acquaintances?

Even though she hasn't seen her husband for 5 years it would violate MB rules for me to be friendly on a personal level with her
Her comment about hiring a housekeeper is a bit over the top.

I also think her 'husband' is probably not legally her husband. He's her Baby Daddy.

I would suggest you put some distance between to two of you, which shouldn't be difficult. It sounds like it's going to happen naturally as soccer season ends.

Interview: FAIL. There will be others smile
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/28/13 12:26 AM
Just tell her out of respect for your marriage you cannot be opposite sex friends.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/28/13 01:14 AM
Originally Posted by WalkinForward
Just tell her out of respect for your marriage you cannot be opposite sex friends.
Um, Walkin - he's divorced.
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/28/13 03:34 AM
Quote
Interview: FAIL. There will be others
Agreed!

I simply would not go out of my way to be around her. If she ever presses you, I would be honest with her. She told you she was still married, and you can not be friends with a married woman.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/28/13 05:24 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
How should I stop this friendly relationship from developing further and reverse it back to parental (kids in soccor) acquaintances?

Even though she hasn't seen her husband for 5 years it would violate MB rules for me to be friendly on a personal level with her

Okay, I have another suggestion:

Take another woman for coffee!
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/28/13 12:56 PM
I agree, find another, unmarried woman to go for coffee with
and
be cordial to your daughter's friend's mom
but tell her you don't hang out alone with, nor discuss your personal life with married women, and even though she hasn't seen her husband for half a decade, she is still married.

Matter of fact but not disrespectful. Just a fact about you.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/29/13 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by WalkinForward
Just tell her out of respect for your marriage you cannot be opposite sex friends.
LOL! Walkin, I just re-read my response to your post, and I think I misunderstood you. If you meant that Jedi was to tell her that, your advice is accurate. smile
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/29/13 03:17 AM
Yes marital...I meant out of respect for her marriage smile
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/30/13 02:03 PM
On Saturday we went to a local 5K.
My DD8 walked it (2nd 5k for her); my other two kids helped the race director hand out medals at the finish line and I came in third place!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/30/13 11:24 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
On Saturday we went to a local 5K.
My DD8 walked it (2nd 5k for her); my other two kids helped the race director hand out medals at the finish line and I came in third place!
hurray Jedi.
Posted By: Gamma Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/31/13 09:49 PM
JK,

That was the best $10 investment you ever made in your life, when the potential GF didn't pay you back.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/05/13 05:11 PM
I wanted to let everyone know that I immediately placed high boundaries around this woman we have discussed.
But I did leave the door open for child activities, and (I help with the church van) did pick up her daughter for vacation bible school a couple weeks ago.

Recently this woman asked what we were doing and I said I was taking the family hiking.

Look at this text:

Woman: would it be alright if we came hiking with you? We have our own tent. Do we just go out there? Does it cost anything?

Sorry you probably want this to be a special family time.

Me: as a general rule I do not go camping with married women. However we can still schedule a play date next month when your daughter returns from camp.

Woman: omg Jedi you are so funny. You are very interesting but I'm not interested in you in that way. I just enjoy the conversation and was hoping to go camping with a friend. I thought camping was about bugs, nature and family

So I guess I have to be divorced in order to go camping with a friend/expert camper? that will take a minute. I guess i might see you next month


------

Now, that is a definite wayward text isn't it?
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/05/13 05:21 PM
Yes, pretty close to it. She's uncomfortable by you reminding her she's married and the thought that her going camping with other men might be inappropriate, so she immediately tries to get away from the discomfort with humor.

You probably made a good love bank withdrawal there. smile
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/05/13 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Me: as a general rule I do not go camping with married women.

Woman: omg Jedi you are so funny. You are very interesting but I'm not interested in you in that way.

Notice that she completely misses the point: you don't go camping with married women, whether they are "interested in you that way" or not.

And many people miss this. It's okay to go to coffee with someone of the opposite sex as long as they are not "interested in you that way." crazy

You didn't say anything about her being interested or not. You simply made a statement of your own boundaries. And she was pretty disrespectful to you in response, I might add.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/05/13 05:33 PM
Yea I noticed that too.
Conversation leads to emotional needs being met, and the romantic love threshold.

I won't meet those needs.
I'll keep my boundaries high around her.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/05/13 06:19 PM
Good job Jedi for keeping high boundaries.

I wonder if her Husband knows she is asking to go camping with Other men?

Do you know her husband?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/06/13 03:04 AM
No I do not.
When she "mentioned" to me that she was once married (but never divorced) she said that he is the father of her child but hasn't seen her for several years

I think she is hiding from him and she came from out of state.


Not going to try to investigate her or her husband.
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/06/13 03:35 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
No I do not.



Not going to try to investigate her or her husband.

Good for you!
Posted By: FooledMeTwice Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/08/13 11:53 AM
I am less than 24 hrs into Plan B, 14 months after initial D-Day and at least 8 months of doing Plan A (although it could EASILY be argued that I spent all 14 months in Plan A), and I have to question Dr. H's assessment that keeping a marriage, even a bad marriage is better for the children. This is always what I thought before the past 14 months and I tried desperately to keep the marriage together for the children, for religious reasons and because I sincerely believe that if both people actually try to fall back in love they usually can (provided all A's are over and any AP is no longer in the picture). However, the amount of work, effort and focus that WS required and I therefore spent on him trying to save the marriage was enormous. Additionally, when WS and I were together, he was always neglectful (once or twice in a physically harmful way) of the children. He is so different when he is alone with the children than when we were all together. He gives them more attention when it is just them vs. when he and I were both present. Whenever he and I were both present, he wanted everything to be about the two of us and would constantly tell the children not "to bother us." They are 9 and 7 and would approach us if we were sitting together talking not more than once every 20+ minutes.
So, respectfully, I may have to change my tune and disagree with Dr. H as sometimes even w/o any type of abuse being present, children are not better when their parents stay together if the parents being together causes more neglect for the children.
Now, when WS and soon to be exS will be in a new relationship or return to his AP, the situation for the children whenever they will be with him will be grim. After all, my WS said about the affair, "one the sex started nothing else mattered, not you, not the children."

One question about Dr. H's comments, did he suggest that a couple stay together for the children even if the WS is not willing to complete the steps of R? In other words, what is Plan B for if we are not supposed to enforce the boundaries we establish in order to have a strong, supportive, caring and safe marriage? Or am I missing something?

(edited: Oops, sorry. I was reading through the thread and found a post I wanted to reply to and did not notice how old it might have been. I see the last several posts are on a completely different topic. My apologies.)
Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/08/13 08:38 PM
No, he says no such thing -- he does not recommend staying together if the WS does not want to R. It would be too much abuse on the BS and that is the last thing he would want.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/12/13 12:58 PM
I've decided to start dating.
I think I should build a profile of my potential date.
After speaking with Dr Harley on the Radio Show conflict is inevitable with children in remarriage.

So for dating should I focus on childless women?

What about age? I'm 35. What's the minimum age I should date? 25?

Online dating? Match or eharmony? Or are they a waste?

I've read the Art of Manliness and will follow those guidelines for dating also.

Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/12/13 01:14 PM
Childless women might be a good idea - boy I wish you'd asked that one yesterday. smile I don't know that I'd rule out women with children, but I don't know for sure how to advise you.

I'm very much in favor of online dating; it's how I met Prisca. In addition to whatever dating sites you use, get on Facebook and make lots of friends and microblog your life. Live life out in the open and have lots of conversations. Lots of relationships start this way. On the singles' site Prisca and I were on there was a chat board and message forum and I think that is really where most people connected.

Church singles groups may also be a good idea. Knowing that you are religious, I suggest visiting lots of churches in the area, especially when they have special events. Some people still use these to connect. You get better quality dates when you pick up a woman at a revival than, say, a bar. wink

I like Art of Manliness. smile (Most of it, anyway!)
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/12/13 01:15 PM
"After speaking with Dr Harley on the Radio Show conflict is inevitable with children in remarriage. "

Conflict is inevitable, period! smile But issues with children are very hard to resolve, because people tend to be less likely to resolve them the right way.

There was a good call about this on a Friday a couple of weeks back, but I don't think it's in the archives yet.
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/12/13 01:18 PM
You will find a bigger potential pool if you are open to women with or without children. I would not put that as a factor in your profile.

Age wise.....21 to 41 would also open the pool (older is fine too if you are game).

Why don't you consider either Match or eHarmony to start and you can always try the other (say a prayer and pick from a hat).

Good wishes to you.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/12/13 01:19 PM
I asked my kids how they would feel about me dating and the older ones were happily excited.
The youngest responded by asking If I could date ex ww.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/12/13 01:47 PM
That's touching.

BTW, if you do exclude women with children a lot of people will judge you for it. But I firmly believe that that is YOUR decision to make.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/12/13 02:01 PM
Originally Posted by markos
That's touching.

BTW, if you do exclude women with children a lot of people will judge you for it. But I firmly believe that that is YOUR decision to make.

Less conflict. The exception would be perhaps a widow with an infant or very young child?
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/12/13 02:32 PM
I really think it is up to you. You might want to evaluate each decision on a case by case basis.

For now, just date! Even if it's not someone you might start a long term relationship with, some dating experience will probably do you good for the future.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/12/13 03:20 PM
I agree with Marcos.......it is your decision. I will say in my case I have had almost no trouble with my step sons....all of our problems come from the xw. For men, I have observed there are less problems out of the xh. My xh gives us no problem.

So for you, a man, finding a woman with a small child......either widowed OR with the father out of the picture would probably work well. But if they do have an involved father he might be easy to deal with....so that is why evaluating case by case is recommended. And since you have full custody of your kids, a lot of the issues dh has with visitation would not be a problem for you.

Handling the inevitable problems with children properly is key. One thing that has helped me is to remember that dh loves his boys as much as I love my son. I also think that acknowledging up front that you each wont have the same kind of feelings for their child as you do for your own is helpful.
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/16/13 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by markos
That's touching.

BTW, if you do exclude women with children a lot of people will judge you for it. But I firmly believe that that is YOUR decision to make.

Less conflict. The exception would be perhaps a widow with an infant or very young child?

Hey JK,
I heard you on the show - that was you last week, right? It was great and very helpful to me to hear some of the related concepts.

I have been thinking about your situation a lot since then. I have to tell you that I think you may find getting into a LT relationship will bring many challenges, some of which may not be best for your kids. The big factors that make me feel this way are that you have full custody and that could make it hard for you to spend the time with a potential mate that you really need to make a good judgement. Also since they are all girls, you are bound to run into jealousy issues all over the place.

I can tell you that I would not have wanted anyone to tell me that when I was where you're at. I don't mean to bring you down - but you are very logical and level-headed (just what your kids need in fact), so I figure you can handle the info.

Most encouraging was what Dr. Harley said about kids who are raised by their Fathers turning out to do very well in most cases.

If you are someone who could date casually, with all the right boundaries, you would probably be fine. Just be really upfront with women from the outset because I believe your are bound to be a big hit! smile

opt
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/17/13 11:57 AM
Opt
I have DS 10, DD 9 and 6.

I agree time is an issue because I have a hard time just keeping up with current stuff.
How can I find a potential date that fits the profile of single, no kids and between 25-35? I'll try the Internet date service match or eharmony.
I'm not very enthused about using an Internet service to find a date though
Posted By: optimism Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/17/13 12:29 PM
I think there is something called "meetup groups" going on right now, that's all the fad.

My Brother in Law is a musician and he said the clubs they play once in a while will sell 30-40 tickets at a time to these types of groups (to the point his wife can't even get into the show at the last minute if they sell it out!)
I guess the idea is casual recreational activities (probably with different themes or a variety of events).

It's for singles, so might fill that desire for adult socialization that you may be feeling.

I've always thought volunteering is a great way to meet people. If you strike out one night, at least you will have given your time to a worthy cause!

I also had to wonder why 25-35. You are very mature and have had tremendous life experiences; perhaps not all good, but you are someone who learns life's lessons. A 20 something is just starting to figure out which end is up...:)

just some thoughts Jedi.

opt
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/17/13 02:06 PM
I am 35.
What age would you recommend?
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/17/13 04:10 PM
I'm 34, divorced for 4 years, no kids, and I've been using Match.com and PlentyofFish.com (which is free) - my experience is that if you go younger, you're more likely to find girls who don't have kids, but a 25 year old is probably also less likely to understand/accept that she will not come first in your life as a father of 3.

Personally, the youngest I go is 32, and the oldest 39, because I very much want to have kids and I feel that an older man would be less likely to want that, especially if he already has children of his own.

Another free dating site is OkCupid.com - I recommend trying out the free ones at first, especially if you are skeptical about the idea of finding a date online. Then at least you aren't out the $170 fee and you're not stuck with it for 6 months.

Good luck - I hope you find who you're looking for.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/17/13 06:08 PM
I agree that 25 is probably too young for you...32 is a good age, however, if you are willing to go just a few years older you might find a woman who has grown children which can be much less stress. Again, look at case by case because some women with grown children are letting those kids run her life and you sure don't want that.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/17/13 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by JustMe385
a 25 year old is probably also less likely to understand/accept that she will not come first in your life as a father of 3.

I don't think Jedi is looking for a situation where he is married but puts kids before his wife.
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/17/13 07:28 PM
That's not quite what I meant - more like if I were dating a man who had full custody of his kids, he may not want me to meet them for a while, and therefore our dates may not be as spontaneous and carefree as I might like. Staying over at each other's houses would be unlikely, weekend trips would be unlikely; if no one was available to watch the kids one weekend that may mean not seeing each other. Stuff like that, before you even reach the marriage stage.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/18/13 04:27 AM
Yes I understand.
Dr Harley recommends against sex before marriage and I also do not want to have sex prior to marriage.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/18/13 04:37 AM
Question:
I have a third cousin, his wife of 10 yrs is having an affair.
My cousin is a drug addict, recently release from jail.
She found a boyfriend during the drug use and jail time (he basically abandoned his family for drugs).

Well she makes Facebook posts regularly about spending time with her boyfriend.

I'm tired of reading her crap.

Her children are my 4th cousins and my children's cousins.
Does etiquette play into my choices? If I "unfriend" her (which I intend to) should
I send her a message explaining that I dont want to read about her adultery?
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/18/13 03:11 PM
I wouldn't bother with any messages or anything as she could probably care less and isn't even related to you.

They're trash, buddy, and not worthy of any further attention or concern from you.
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/18/13 04:07 PM
I agree. Since she is a soon to be X inlaw, I would just unfriend and not look back.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/18/13 06:26 PM
Okay I unfriended her and another cheating relative
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/22/13 03:39 AM
Here.
Radio Clip on Jedi_Knight's Call
Segment #2
Segment #3
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/05/13 02:34 AM
Today's sermon was about Adultery.

Afterwards I ran a nice 8 mile run while the kids visited ex ww and I thought of how GREAT plan b is!
Posted By: divorcedandlost Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/08/13 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I've decided to start dating.
I think I should build a profile of my potential date.
After speaking with Dr Harley on the Radio Show conflict is inevitable with children in remarriage.

So for dating should I focus on childless women?

What about age? I'm 35. What's the minimum age I should date? 25?

Online dating? Match or eharmony? Or are they a waste?

I've read the Art of Manliness and will follow those guidelines for dating also.

Hi Jedi, listened to your radio clip it was very insightful! I think you can set age limits,(restrictions) but be open to fudging them a bit. I say I have a 5 year, 10 year rule, a lot of it depends on your current age, for me going 10 years younger as a woman who is 30 would be frowned upon and I highly doubt I would have much in common with a 20 year old man, kwim? So for me, I say 5 years younger and 10 years older max. I tend to go for guys 3-5 years older in general.

As for the idea of dating someone without kids, I think it is totally dependent on you and the woman. I have known many childless women who would of and did make horrible step mothers, and there are many women with children that make great step mothers. I, at first thought I should date single dads only since I am a single mom, but now realize, I should not judge a person based on whether a person has children or not, or I could really be missing out.

Do you feel you personally would have issues with a partners children? My xwh said he could never have another womans children living with him while his own kids were not there, it would be too upsetting. Are you worried you would not treat potential step children well? If so, how do feel about if the tables were turned and a new wife didn't treat your bio children well, particularly if you were to have more children with the new wife?

Someone near and dear to me treated her now stepdaughter like her own and she has gone above and beyond to give her stepdaughter the best, she was 19 at the time when her and her now husband started dating and her stepdaughter was about 1 year old. They now have their own daughter as well and I can say she is an excellent stepmother, so it isn't an age thing or a child/childless thing, it is a PERSONALITY thing.

As far as the avenue for dating, I would be very choosy if you go the online dating route. I had briefly tried it, but now have taken myself out of the dating game and will only entertain the idea of a date if I meet someone the old fashioned way IN real life, though I met xwh off the internet so i may be a bit jaded.

Lastly, when was your divorce finalized, I don't read all the threads here so I was curious how long you waited to start dating. I began dating way too early and now I embracing my singleness.
Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/08/13 04:55 PM
Quote
I've decided to start dating.
Good for you Jedi!

Do try to befriend (non-married) women too as Dr. Harley said.
You will learn a lot about women if they do not see you as a romantic interest and viceversa.
They will introduce you to new people aswell.

On the age thing:
It is most probably different if you do have children.
I am exactly your age and have dated range 21 to 33.
30+ childless singles are NOT abundantly available in these parts. I hardly meet them and if I do they make it impossible to date them. (=have a career that is absorbing them)

I am not meeting ANY divorced women with children, but that is probably due to the fact I do not have kids and not hang out in places with kids for obvious reasons.

Do not get distracted by the age thing.
The 21 yr-old I dated was more mature and interesting than some of the 26+.
Not every date has to end up in a romantic interest remember? It's OK to be just friends too!

Looking forward to read your dating stories, JEDI.
Our worlds are both literally and figuratively "worlds apart", but I can GARANTEE it's a jungle out there! ;-)
Good luck!
Posted By: divorcedandlost Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/10/13 01:25 PM
geroldmodel please tell me where to meet male friends? I have tried meetup groups and guys are either too into me so they want to date or think that I am into them and not interested so they won't contact. I have heard many women say it is impossible to be friends with members of the opposite sex.

A couple months ago I was at a bar and there was a guy who was friends with another guy who dancing with a woman in my party all night. I go a lot on instinct and I guess I am not dumb because I know he was interested in me and checking me out. We talked for a bit and I found out he was a teacher and I am in college to get my teaching license and he went to the college I am now enrolled at. So we had some commonalities and exchanged numbers. He seemed a bit young than I, maybe 5 years and we did not talk about anything personal, just about college, teaching etc. We exchanged numbers but I immediately decided not to call him because I did not want to lead him on....So how should i of approached that situation as not to lead lead someone on while trying to befriend them?

As a single mom ds would probably wonder why I had male friends all of a sudden, though he said one day when we were talking about friends and I mentioned i hardly talk to my old friends and one of my bff's is pregnant and doesn't want to hang out anymore, so he says 'why don't you be friends with D?' I say well that is dad's neighbor now so that would be weird' (plus d is married)he says not that D, our new neighbor D, I just said "Oh I thought you meant the other D" this new neighbor D is also married and like the other D he is home more and I interact more with him than the wife. But I am not interested in being friends with any married men! I am no spring chicken but am 10 years younger than Dhave been told I am easy on the eyes and the last thing I want is the reputation of befriending male married neighbors, that is one boundary I will not cross. Ds also said he would be okay with me dating and has brought up me getting married again a few times, without me even suggesting it. Dd is still young (2) so doesn't comprehend dating or marriage. Right now I would just be happy with some nice friends male and/or female. Dating will happen when it happens.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/11/13 02:12 AM
The kids and I have been doing well.

Today was ex ww birthday so I helped the kids make a gift (decorate a flower vase) and they will pick flowers tomorrow, and I am also baking a chocolate cake for them to bring to visitation with her tomorrow.

They all made cards for her also.

I'm working on my online dating profile and will post it on the online Dating thread for advice soon.

Posted By: geroldmodel Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/12/13 09:52 AM
Originally Posted by divorcedandlost
geroldmodel please tell me where to meet male friends? I have tried meetup groups and guys are either too into me so they want to date or think that I am into them and not interested so they won't contact. I have heard many women say it is impossible to be friends with members of the opposite sex.

Ofcourse it is quite impossible to maintain a friendship for life with someone of the opposite sex, but that does not mean you cannot be friends for a while.

My best female friend (26 yrs old) is very good at making new friends.
Ofcourse some of these male friends are interested in dating her, but she maintains her boundaries by being very frank about not wanting to date them romanticly (for now).
She is very pro-active and not too shy to call/FB these guys to hang out.

Her strategy is to befriend people with the same recreational activity.
For her it's music, but that could be anything I guess...



Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 10/08/13 04:58 AM
Well, I was up late watching a movie. Sick child in bed and I have a lack of aleep sleep for the past couple days. The movie features a man whose wife had an affair right in the beginning.

I hate affair plots. But they are very prominent in movies because they are prominent in life and marriage.
I sometimes watch the Steve Wilkos show, which usually features those whom Dr Harley refers to as "renters." Cheating is present in those relationships as well.

I've registered for the online POF website, without success.
The fact is I am 35 years old (soon to be 36) and had sex with 2 women.
My marriage was mostly sexless, and I feel deficient.

Dr Harley once mentioned on his radio show that Socrates longed for old age to loose his sex drive. I replaced my sex drive with a business.
I lost the business during my divorce but found a purpose in life.

I think of the great tragedies caused by my ex wifes affair.
I don't understand why she made her decisions.

I would like to have a beautiful intelligent woman to share my life with but I feel stuck in a rut
Posted By: ak1 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 10/09/13 06:45 AM
Dude,

I know how you feel. Like you, I'm serious about faith, family, and marriage. I've been divorced 10 months now and it's hard to find a worthy date. I've seen 2 different women a few times, and while it's exciting at first you quickly realize that they have their own issues, and in some ways it's even more stressful.

Let me explain. The first girl was very pretty, and she is a believer, but no boundaries. She talked to her ex daily and he controlled her. On day she called and said her ex was freaking out that she was seeing me and wanted to reconcile. I told her that if she has a shot to get her family back together she should go for it. I gave her the boundaries book and HNHN and haven't really talked to her since.

The second girl is nice enough. Her ex was emotionally abusive so she left him. I can't figure out if she us a buyer, and I don't think she is as serious as I am about faith/God/church.

I still talk to her, but I don't think she is the one for me so I need to tell her and move on, trouble is that she is meeting some of my needs and I think she likes me and don't want to hurt her, but I'm not going to be dishonest and use her.

There is a third girl from church, but she moved away right after her divorce so I haven't spent any time with her.. We talk a lot and I adore her, but she isn't healed up yet, and she is 4000 miles away.

So the point I'm making is that dating can be very stressful, perhaps even more stressful than being single. I know that you are wanting some of your needs met, but be careful not to let yourself get too desperate, as it's a turnoff and it will cause even more trouble.

I think the best thing is to work hard on you, write a really good profile, then just work on talking to other women, but not trying to meet them. Another thing you can do is start taking to women at the grocery store, but don't limit it to single girls you are attracted to, all women. Not to be rude or inappropriate, but to get more comfortable with women in general. When the cashier asks how you are doing, tell her great, and ask how she is doing. When she answers tease her or ask more questions.

I've only been with one girl my entire life. I'm waiting on #2. She is going to be amazing. In the mean time, I'm starting to get comfortable complementing a girl on her hair style or dress, then walk away. It helps me feel comfortable with the situation I'm in, it brightens someone's day, and I've gotten a few looks and complements back.

Hope that helps.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 10/20/13 02:02 AM
I took my kids to the skate rink today; and encountered two women.

The first woman was about 25 or so and very attractive.
As I observed I was attracted to her, I asked myself: Why?
She has tattoes, which I dont find attractive. (Although I philosophically am not opposed to tattoes)
She had a great figure, a nice butt.
And she was the best skater in the rink.
I spoke with her briefly and she told me she is on a roller derby team and this is their off season.
So, I concluded I was attracted to her because she had a great body, and was a great skater.

The second lady I encountered was formerly a member of my church; her husband was a famiky counselor / associate pastor in the church and under very concealed reasons they left the church and he was dismissed from his job. Their divorce Is in the courts.
She is abt 45 and I said hello to her and her kids.
I found her attractive (although I certainly maintained full boundaries and would never tell her)
I asked myself; Why? She is physically attractive but older than I.

This made me question, What causes attraction?
I read of Dt Harleys experiment in college with measuring attravtiveness and all the students had different standards.
But I wonder, Why do I find a woman's buttox more appealing than their breasts?
Is the attraction a learned behavior? Or inherent?

Has Dr Harley ever spoke on this?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 10/20/13 02:05 AM
Oh I should clarify that Atlas Shrugged did help me realize that I was attravted to suffering.
After reading Atlas I guard myself against that.

I ask myself, What values do I find attractive?

But as with the case of most, my first attravtiveness is always based on physical
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 10/20/13 10:52 PM
Does not matter why you find a woman attractive. I do not like tattoos on woman. Though I have found some woman to be attractive that do have tattoos.

We have preferences as to what we like. To me attractiveness is based on the total appearance of the woman. Not her individual assets.
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 10/20/13 11:48 PM
There are all types of things we find attractive in other people.

People are each unique.

Their combination of traits make them that way.

Scent is important too. So is sound of their voice, etc.

As we know from marriagebuilders concepts.......someone can meet your needs and become WAY more attractive to you than otherwise.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/08/13 06:08 AM
Well this is an update to my post on page 36:
This is an email I sent to our church pastor today. The woman's daughter has been coming to church wed nights and she started to come. On my part, I have kept my boundaries high with her.

Pastor
,I would like to inform you of a matter:
After Wed Night class, Lady (who has two daughters - dd (age 8) and dd(age 2) approached me and asked for assistance. She is pregnant and felt dizzy.

She called a nurse from the church and the nurse told her to go to the hospital.�
I took dd8 home with me and Church Member drove Lady and dd2 to Hospital 1. She was then transferred to Hospital 2.
�I went to visit Lady today in the Hospital and she told me that the unborn child (7 mos) has non functioning kidneys. There is no amniotic fluid.�

She was understandably very emotionally distraught. I prayed with her and encouraged her to reach out to the Hospital patient advocate or chaplain for assistance in coming up with a plan on how to be prepared for when the child is born.

�She relayed a conversation she had with you regarding marriage. She said that you told her God intends marriage for some and single life for others.
�I want to make sure you understand that she is legally married.�I suspect she is hiding from the husband, dd8 father.�Dd2 is from the same on and off boyfriend as the unborn child.�Dd8 does not attend public school and last night she told me that her mom is worried someone will kidnap her so she isn't allowed to sleep in her own room; she must sleep with the mother.�

During the hospital visit, Lady told me that "everyone I meet is somehow against me" and several other similar statements.

�I think she could probably benefit from seeing a psychologist.�I try to include dd8 in events that I take my kids to; However, I maintain very high boundaries around the mother.�

I hope this information may be helpful to you in your interactions with her.�Hopefully if she attends more Wed Night classes a lady can reach out to her and become a peer role model. Perhaps you may consider asking a lady to reach out to her.

�Please feel free to contact me with any questions or concerns. Its a very unfortunate and complicated situation and I am concerned for the family
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/08/13 01:52 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Dd8 does not attend public school...�

Assuming that there is no equivalent homeschooling going on here, isn't school attendance compulsory in your state? Or is it only an issue with the state when they know about it?

Is that child literate? You might ask her to read something the next time you get a chance.



Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/08/13 02:11 PM
I think she can read because she and my daughter read books to themselves that evening. Then again, she may just be looking at the pages.

Ill try to read with her next time she's here.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/11/13 02:21 PM
A lady in Sunday School class told me she was the girls public school teacher last year.
She said that it is a bizarre mother.
She said she will email the District to see if the proper homeschool papers were submitted.
She also said that she thinks social services had the girls at one point and wouldnt release them and that's why the grandmother was living with them.
But now the grandmother is in florida...

And there's more. ...

The childrens minister (a lady) spoke with me after the class and said that apparently the woman left her 2 year old just running around last Wed early evening: she brought her d8 to dance class and also dropped off the 2 yr old. However Wed night there is no care for young toddlers available! And she left the church for an hour! The minister told her she can't do that again. She told me if she does she will call Social Services.

She also instructed me and the church van driver that we are not to be alone with the mother and reminded us there must always be 2 adults in the church van.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/15/13 04:41 AM
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Posted By: stilltryingx2 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/15/13 05:28 PM
I'll do it
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/17/13 02:57 AM
Well tomorrow is my birthday.
36 years old.
I spent half of the day hiking with my kids.
I'm very happy to see that develop well in a safe loving home.
I reeived a birthday card from my grandmother which was very kind and wishes from an older cousin far away.

Its been a little more than 2 years since my ex wufea affair, a little more than a year since divorce.
But I've been ao very happy lately having NO contact with her.
I tried the limited contact but going no contact is so freeing.
I go running while the kids visit her on Sunday and I smile and love life so much.

I will be honest and say that sometimes I feel lonely.
It is nice to have a companion.

I'm so very thankful for dr Harley and MB and all of you dear people that have posted to me over the past couple years.
I love Dr Harley. I love the valuues he promotes and lives by, and don't know where I would be if I did not stumble upon his book, Surviving An Affair when I searched the internet in desperation for how to deal with my wife's affair.


Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/17/13 02:59 AM
Originally Posted by stilltryingx2
I'll do it

Thank you very much.
Ill ckick Notify Mod and they should exchange our email addressea.
Thank you!
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/17/13 03:48 AM
HappyBirthday tomorrow.
Posted By: stilltryingx2 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/17/13 03:48 AM
you are very welcome smile have a very happy birthday!!!
Posted By: IrishGreen Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/17/13 04:01 AM
Originally Posted by stilltryingx2
you are very welcome smile have a very happy birthday!!!
JediKnight and stilltryingx2,
Please check your emails.
Posted By: stilltryingx2 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/17/13 05:11 AM
Originally Posted by IrishGreen
Originally Posted by stilltryingx2
you are very welcome smile have a very happy birthday!!!
JediKnight and stilltryingx2,
Please check your emails.

Received and reply sent to Jediknight. Thank you!!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/23/13 12:07 AM
I am going to share some texts between this woman and I.
I would appreciate any feedback.

Facebook messages:
Me:
How did you find me on facebook?

Her:
So, I have been reading Atlas Shrugged and absolutely fell in love with Ayn Rand's writing....that's where I saw your comment and checked your page, and wanted to know you. smile Thanks for adding me. I am almost done with the book, I have been too busy to read, and I take breaks in frustration over what is happening, but that's why I love it so...I don't know about you, but I haven't met anyone who has even heard of the book, I started it so that I could write an essay for a college scholarship. I will definitely make it for next years deadline. Ask me anything.

Me:
Thats great
How old are you? Have you read the Fountainhead or Anthem?

Her:
I'm 38. I haven't read them yet, Atlas is my first one, but as soon as I finish I plan on reading one of those next. I haven't decided which yet though. Have you read them?

Me:
I listened to Athem on Audiobook. You can listen to it on Youtube. I've seen The Fountainhead but haven't read it in its entirety

Her:
I have never listened to an audio book. Just checked the you tube. I can't believe you can listen to the whole thing in two hours. Seems a bit like cheating. smile

Me:
Yes. I listened to it while gardening. I also listen to John Galts speach on YouTube.
My name is Jedi. this is just an alias name I use on facebook

Her:
ah. I hear about people that listen to audio books and fall asleep then lose their place. I may try it sometime with one I don't intend to read. I had no idea you tube had that. Your alias is clever though. Are you worried someone from your past might find you? haha, I have accepted friends from past and then got rid of them because I realized why they were no longer in my present. wink

Me:

Yea I use it to help prevent my ex wife from contacting me; it serves as an additional measure of privacy

Her:

I blocked my ex, but have since unblocked him. Then he wanted to be friends again, but it didn't work out. Do you share custody with her? Mine lives out of state, it makes life sweet.

Me:

Yea. Such attempts rarely do work out.
I have full custody of my 3 children.

Her:

I have full custody too. My daughter is 11. Then I have two older ones 18 and 20 and a grand daughter. I have been a mother all my adult life, wouldn't change it for the world. They are everything to me.
I have 230 pages left. Taggert's wife just ran from him.
You are the same age as my brothers. Well two of them. I have 4.
I am being summoned for a movie that is starting with my sons girlfriend. do you want to text?

Okay then we started texting on 11/13.
The texts become more personal. ....
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/23/13 12:57 AM
Well I was going to post the text mesaages but don't know how to export them

Basically I have spent hours texting this woman at night, with texting throughout the day.
The texting is new to me
In a way, I always hated texting because my ex carried on her affair with it so I was prejudiced against texting.
But I have enjoyed it

We have discussed history, philosophy, life etc.
I mentioned some of Harleys concepts and asked her about her philosophy of sacrificing in marriage.
She ideRiontified her top 5 emotional needs and I find myself attracted to her.

I've sent her mildly flirty text messages (thank you internet websites for the copy and paste) and she has done the same.


Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/25/13 12:38 AM
Is she local?

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/25/13 01:25 AM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Is she local?

No she isn't.
So I have to keep it at a friendship level.
Ahe lives 2000 miles away.

Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/25/13 03:47 AM
Sounds entertaining and sounds like fun (after all you ARE a bachelor now!)

That is a LOT of miles though.........you can have fun BUT look for someone local.


Once you find a local. Shut the long distance communication DOWN.

Bammm. (quick).
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/25/13 04:06 AM
Okay
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/27/13 03:25 AM
Well we had a lot of texting.
Romantic texts and I was following the friends of good conversation guidelines.

Then we were going to speak on the phone for the first time today.
We had a set time to talk. Unfortunately, I had an emergency work situation and was unable to talk. But I called at the appointed time and she answered.
I said hello, apologized for having a work emergency and then we agreed to talk later.

Well she sent me a text that she was busy:

How bout we dont plan it. My day is not that predictable. I understand for this morning When it comes to work its hard to even have a minute. I usually dont even take time on the phone with my family because I get so busy.today I have so many things getting ready

I tried to call again later and she texted:

I cant believe I missed your call. Im at a friends house. I still have not made it to the store.Im so behind and Im getting overwhelmed with everything right now
I didnt want to call back just now because we are In the middle of something so I dont want to be rude to her or to you.

I replied texted:

I understand. I very much look forward to hearing your voice and hope we can connect soon. You sounded very sweet when I called you this morning

Am I correct that the ball is in her court now?
What surprises me is that she has been texting me probably 50 times a day, sometimes for an hour or two at night. But when it came time to talk in person nothing.

Yesterday she even gave me her mailing address so we could also write letters to each other.
I suppose its also possible she just didn't like my voice.
Posted By: stilltryingx2 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/27/13 07:31 PM
Hate to bust your bubble, but I'm smelling 'player' here. When someone is interested in someone, they TAKE THE TIME to show it and make that person and their time 'somewhat' of a priority. And advance the 'relationship' She's not advancing. Just my two-cents worth.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/27/13 08:10 PM
Originally Posted by stilltryingx2
Hate to bust your bubble, but I'm smelling 'player' here. When someone is interested in someone, they TAKE THE TIME to show it and make that person and their time 'somewhat' of a priority. And advance the 'relationship' She's not advancing. Just my two-cents worth.

That's the impression I get.
I showed my sister the texts and she thought this lady liked me a lot.
But as soon as it came time to talk on the phone there were excuses.
So I think I will just back off and if she decides to call then we will see
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/27/13 08:25 PM
Do you think maybe she wasn't honest with you about her status? It's odd that she doesn't want to talk on the phone but is willing to text. Seems like she might be hiding something? A boyfriend maybe? If a guy I liked called me while I was at a friends house I would probably leave early to call him back! Definitely would not respond with a text. Your instict to be wary are right on.
But at least you got some practice talking to a woman!
Also, Happy Belated Birthday, hope you celebrated with a nice long run.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/27/13 08:46 PM
Texts from her this week:

Goodmorning to you
As I casually get myself ready for work, I ponder, have you dreamt of me? Would you tell me if you had? I hope you have a wonderful day full of happiness

I feel raw and exposed. Vulnerable to your desires. Your words speak to my soul. I long to feel your breath. I want more than just a dream. My dreams are explicit and full of passion.

You are so romantic!
Its been so busy since I got here and my heart is pounding!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/27/13 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by JustMe385
Do you think maybe she wasn't honest with you about her status? It's odd that she doesn't want to talk on the phone but is willing to text. Seems like she might be hiding something? A boyfriend maybe? If a guy I liked called me while I was at a friends house I would probably leave early to call him back! Definitely would not respond with a text. Your instict to be wary are right on.
But at least you got some practice talking to a woman!
Also, Happy Belated Birthday, hope you celebrated with a nice long run.

Well I looked on the cali court website and it looks like she is divorced.
And she friended me on facebook but of course we all know that doesn't mean anything.
My feeling is that she liked the texting but when it came to talking she backed off
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/27/13 09:08 PM
I hate to sound paranoid, but I don't trust very easily, and there are so many crazy people out in the world. Have you ever seen Catfishing? Anyone can be anyone or anything online.

What reason could she possibly have for not wanting to talk live?

You said you know you have to keep it at friendship level because of the distance (a safety net for her, it seems as she doesn't want to speak on the phone) but the latest texts go beyond friendship. So what are you really hoping to get out of this?

Say you keep up the romantic conversation with this lady, and a couple weeks from now you meet the girl of your dreams in the gardening section at Home Depot. Are you going to be so attached to her that it'll be difficult to cease communication?

Just be careful. Have fun with it but don't get in too deep.
If you hate my advice just say so, I'll butt out!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/27/13 10:18 PM
I read website they said if a woman ignores you for a day then you ignore her for a day or two days vice versa. so I think I will do that
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/28/13 05:52 AM
Well she called me on her way home from work.
The conversation was alright.
Then after abt 15 min she said that she was home and needed to go (before she got out of her car)
So I think maybw there is some issue. Why can she not talk on the phone in her single apartment?

I followed the rules of good conversation from Dr Harley.

She told me that she will be unable to talk on the phone for the next few days but can text.

I think you are all right. Perhaps she is playing games.

Personally I am baffled. I don't understand how someone can text for hours but can't have a 15 minute phone call?
What has been the point of all these texting? Hours worth of texting!
Why did she give me her address to write?

I know that men should not appear clingly or upset.
I don't know how to handle this other than just brush her off for a couple days

Posted By: living_well Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/28/13 12:51 PM
Jedi, people tell you all about themselves the first time you meet them. Later their actions are coloured by your expectations and your interpretations are coloured by your emotions.

Move on, good women don't play games.
Posted By: stilltryingx2 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/28/13 02:29 PM
Originally Posted by living_well
Jedi, people tell you all about themselves the first time you meet them. Later their actions are coloured by your expectations and your interpretations are coloured by your emotions.

Move on, good women don't play games.

Ditto!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/29/13 04:20 AM
I received a text from ex sil:

Hey,I might have some things in with ww stuff. Would you leave her things on the front porch to get after you are done moving? Especially a purple momento tub. I could tell her what day to get them so you wouldn't have to see her if you don't want to. Let me know.night.

My reply:
I have nothing that belongs to her
I do not have a purple momento tub. Everything else is gone. I don't save stuff from a divorce
Please do not send her here

Her:
Fine. Just thought id try. My great grandmas necklace that I wore to my wedding was in there.oh well.night.

Me:
I'm sorry for your loss.


Now, I'm shocked she asks me about this now. 1 week before we move.
We have visited her probably 6 times in the past 2 ywars.
I've been divorced since july 2012.
Now I know that etiquette requires one to be thoughful.
But I felt like typing Ask your cheating sister about the necklace!

Should I reply, your sister probably took it (as she confessed to me during our marriage that she actually stole something of value from her sister.....or just ignore it?)
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 11/29/13 04:21 PM
You already responded that you don't have the tub or anything of XW.

If XSIL ever inquires about the necklace again, let her know her sister probably has it since you do not. Matter of factly.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/01/13 05:40 AM
I spent spent 1.5 hours talking with this woman.
We have been texting all day.
When I came home today there was a letter from her.

I wrote her a letter.

I'm happier now than I havr heen in a long long time
Posted By: ChangedbyGod Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/02/13 01:13 AM
Jedi Knight,
I know you are a Christian man, who is full of integrity and good character, yet you are infatuated with someone I see as questionable. What does she mean by feeling raw and exposed and vulnerable to your desires? She longs to feel your breath? Her dreams are explicit and full of passion? I guess there would be nothing wrong with having flirty conversations with sexual innuendos since you are a bachelor, but reading from your past posts, this does not seem like something you would go for. I would proceed cautiously. She seems like she is using her words to ignite something in you that may be hard to be delivered long distance?? Just wondering if you may want to wait around for someone local who may be a little more down to earth. Just my 2 cents.




Posted By: Jhamila Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/02/13 01:40 AM
Hi Jedi. Thanks for sharing your experiences here, as it helps me understand the guys' POV. It's a jungle out there!

Quick question, at the risk of sounding obtuse: why are you communicating with her? (No judgment or latent advice here, just trying to understand)
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/02/13 04:43 AM
I confess I enjoy the conversations.
I don't think they are sinful.
The Song of Solomon describes sex and passion.

Why do I speak with her? I like her a lot.

If I sound crazy let me know.
I know I have a bad track record so I have kept my sister informed of everything for perspective.
She says I should proceed with caution but felt that I (1) get practice talking to women and (2) if the lady is truthful it could turn into something serious.
My sister said people meet out of state and use web cams and get married and move.
Posted By: living_well Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/02/13 12:20 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I confess I enjoy the conversations.
I don't think they are sinful.
The Song of Solomon describes sex and passion.


The conversations are not sinful. But this woman is trying to get you addicted to her. She knows that you are vulnerable and is preying on you.

Start asking some tough questions and see how she responds.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/02/13 01:13 PM
What questions ?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/02/13 01:59 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Then after abt 15 min she said that she was home and needed to go (before she got out of her car)
So I think maybw there is some issue. Why can she not talk on the phone in her single apartment?

I can answer this because I do it too. My cell phone does not work inside my house. BUT, I can either text or use my land line. Could it be that her cell phone does not work inside her house?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/02/13 02:08 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Then after abt 15 min she said that she was home and needed to go (before she got out of her car)
So I think maybw there is some issue. Why can she not talk on the phone in her single apartment?

I can answer this because I do it too. My cell phone does not work inside my house. BUT, I can either text or use my land line. Could it be that her cell phone does not work inside her house?

I don't know but I did talk to her for abt 90 minutes on her phone in the apt.
I know she was there because I could hear her daughter in the background.
I don't think she's hiding a live in boyfriend.
She also posts stuff to me on facebook too
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/02/13 02:20 PM
This is the letter she wrote and mailed to me (on nice stationary):

Dearest Jedi,

Before I found you I had not thought this possible. I hadn't known any other to share my thoughts beliefs and dreams. I hold our friendship close to my heart not willing to let any harm come to what we have together.

I find myself wanting more of you as each day passes. I want to stop time so that I may be able to spend time getting to know you more.

I want to bridge the distance that is between us and be a part of your life amd you in mine.

I will accept our fate and be satisfied with any part that you are willing to share. Never did I expect to find a man like you.

With love,
(Ill call her Dominique - alias)
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/02/13 02:34 PM
Ex ww gave the kids christmas ornaments and decorations and a table centerpiece.
She also told them she was bringing a tree (fake tree) next week for them to set up.
I told them that we will not be setting up a tree she brings and we willpick kne out together.
I also will not have her centerpiece on our table!
Is it reasonable to say, You can keep it in your rooms but not the living areas?
Posted By: Justthe3ofus Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/03/13 01:28 AM
Jedi,

Take it slow. See where it takes you. Sounds like both of your love banks are getting filled faster than a Las Vegas slot machine. The empty heart has a voracious appetite and things can rev up fast as they have with you. I wish you well.

Regarding the ornaments and tree, your XW should keep them at her place if the kids are there often. These are tough issues because they pit the children between you and your ex. You should not have to be subjected to her Christmas tree and center pieces.

To answer your question, yes, its reasonable to ask them to keep the ornaments and decorations from their mom in their rooms. That is exactly how handled the things my FWW gave my girls when she was having the affair. I told them, "These are yours but they are hurtful for me to see (they came from overseas where the POSOM lived) so please keep them out of my sight."





Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/03/13 03:38 PM
I spoke with her for nearly 3 hours yesterday.
we send text to each other throughout the day.
if there are questions I should be asking please let me know as I have discussed marriage Builders principlesand she seems very much on the same page

I am going to California to visit relatives in May and I'm going to visit her then

I'm very much find myself falling in love with her
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/03/13 06:41 PM
I sent her flowers today at work. my sister helped me choose which ones
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/03/13 08:33 PM
Awwww!
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/03/13 09:24 PM
Have you discussed whether one of you is willing to move to be together? I know you have full custody but would your ex have to sign off on that? What about her ex? Under normal circumstances I'd say it's too early to have this talk but it seems you two are moving at lightning speed.

How much background checking have you done, beyond her Facebook page and court documents?
Posted By: Jhamila Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/04/13 02:49 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I confess I enjoy the conversations.
I don't think they are sinful.
The Song of Solomon describes sex and passion.

Why do I speak with her? I like her a lot.

If I sound crazy let me know.
I know I have a bad track record so I have kept my sister informed of everything for perspective.
She says I should proceed with caution but felt that I (1) get practice talking to women and (2) if the lady is truthful it could turn into something serious.
My sister said people meet out of state and use web cams and get married and move.

I don't think you sound crazy at all. I think it's totally natural to enjoy being 'someone special' to someone special.

For the record, I doubt you need "practice" talking to women - I'll bet it comes easily to you when you're attracted to someone wink

Heck, maybe you'll find a way to meet someday!
Posted By: Jhamila Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/04/13 02:51 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I spoke with her for nearly 3 hours yesterday.
we send text to each other throughout the day.
if there are questions I should be asking please let me know as I have discussed marriage Builders principlesand she seems very much on the same page

I am going to California to visit relatives in May and I'm going to visit her then

I'm very much find myself falling in love with her
Wow!! Thumbs up! smile

(We could tell you were falling in love...so cute)
Posted By: Jhamila Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/04/13 02:52 AM
Now THAT'S "online dating" at its finest! loveheart
Posted By: Jhamila Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/04/13 02:53 AM
Can you skype? (no hanky-panky now! lol)
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/04/13 05:40 AM
She liked the flowers;

Here's a text. She also called:

These flowers are amazing! Beautiful! You are amazing!
Thank you!!!!
If I can call on this phone tell me Im on my break. Thank you!
Its one of the girls birthday today. I thought they were for her. I was doing a haircut and walked up to the front to sign for them and when she said my name I gasped! They are so beautiful!
Jedi, Im already falling so hard for you! Every day more and more
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/05/13 02:20 AM
We are having a "movie date" where we watch the same movie at the same time.
The Fountainhead, starring Gary Cooper
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/05/13 09:23 PM
Well today we discussd physical appearance and she told me she is overweight (I can't see it in her pictures)
She said she weighs 205, and recently lost 30 pounds and is trying tl loose another 30.
I her I think she is very pretty and she would look fabulous with another 30 off.
I said that in any future marriage, physical attraction is a top emotiinal need fkr me (see text):

Physical attraction is high on my emotiinal needs list so it would be important for me that you lost the 30 amd maintained it throughout (future talk) marriage




Well, she hasn't responded and posted on facebook Live yourself and dknt change for others
Now, i don't want a mate thats obese and that's a fact.
Did I handle this respectfully and correctly?
Posted By: kerala Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/05/13 09:49 PM
I think, if PA is an important EN, then you probably need to not be with someone who is or was obese as an adult. The odds against such a person being able to get to a weight you are comfortable with and, more importantly, to maintain it, are pretty slim.

So, while I think that the precise wording of your message was stark, to the extent that the underlying sentiment is legit (and MB says it is), you are probably better off if she IS offended than if she agreed to your request.
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/05/13 10:12 PM
I agree that perhaps your delivery could have been a tad softer, but hey, you're supposed to be a Freeloader right now, so it is what it is.

She wants someone to love her for who she is, as she is (and she apparently has a wonderful personality, as you fell quite hard and quickly) and you can't blame her for that.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/05/13 10:26 PM
Text:

Jedi I have grown Inareasingly close to you over the past month. I did not realize you didnt look at all my pics on facebook. One of the values we share is that of sacrafice. Please take the time to look through my entire facebook profile. I really like you more than I set out to and am guarding my self right now. I like the way I look and am not seeking to change. I am hurt that I feel you were thinking I was something other than I am
Posted By: Jhamila Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 12:09 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Text: Jedi I have grown Inareasingly close to you over the past month. I did not realize you didnt look at all my pics on facebook. One of the values we share is that of sacrafice. Please take the time to look through my entire facebook profile. I really like you more than I set out to and am guarding my self right now. I like the way I look and am not seeking to change. I am hurt that I feel you were thinking I was something other than I am

Jedi, I think it's good that you mentioned this now rather than later. Sounds like she is happy the way she is, and I admire her honesty. And it sounds like her appearance (a slimmer appearance) is really important to you. If she's not willing, then this might be a deal-breaker for you.

One of the things I look for - dating - is a person willing to accommodate the sensitivities of others. Not 'sacrifice' to accommodate, but willing to negotiate to make sure both are happy. This usually comes out very early in dating, if you're on the lookout. Doesn't sound like this is an area she'll bend on.

frown
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 12:26 AM
What is the polite way to communicate this to her and reply to her text above?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 01:30 AM
I just read both of Dr Harleys letters on Physical Attractiveness and apparently somepeople get upset about it.
My sister thought I made a mistake but I feel its important to be honest, especially when the lady solicits my thkughts.

Should I possibly show her this article by Harley or would that be a love buster? (Disrespect)


Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 02:12 AM
I sent this reply:

, I'm sorry that you feel hurt. I care for you deeply and want you to be happy. I was trying to communicate my emotiinal needs that I would need met in a marriage. I would never ask you to sacrifice for me.
Posted By: Gamma Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 02:45 AM
JK,

An important question is did she hide her weight from you or intentionally omit that fact?

This isn't a deal killer, but you certainly do not want to live with even a white liar anymore.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 02:59 AM
Good point Gamma.

Also another thing to consider, weighing 205 would look different (male and female) if she is 5 feet tall verses 5' 8", along with other factors.
Posted By: living_well Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 01:38 PM
Originally Posted by Logans_Run
Good point Gamma.

Also another thing to consider, weighing 205 would look different (male and female) if she is 5 feet tall verses 5' 8", along with other factors.


I'm 5'7" and weigh 120 lbs. 205 is a lot of poundage even at that height!
Posted By: living_well Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 01:44 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I just read both of Dr Harleys letters on Physical Attractiveness and apparently some people get upset about it.


Somewhere on this website is some some advice from Dr Harley about on-line dating. It said that you should limit virtual communications to two weeks without meeting face to face. I think he had in mind issues such as the one you are running into.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 04:15 PM
well at least I got to experience some communication and I don't feel bad because I communicated my emotional needs so this is the point of getting to know someone.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 04:20 PM
Did she respond to your last text?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 04:24 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Did she respond to your last text?

Yes she texted:
I understand. And I appreciate your honesty.

She also make several posts on Facebook about loving yourself and complain that men are superficial
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 06:06 PM
She sounds pretty passive aggressive, in regards to texting you one thing and then her facebook posts are sounding opposite.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 06:59 PM
It's not a superficial thing, though. If she's attractive to you, she'll make deposits every time you see her. That totally makes sense to set yourself up for success and wait for someone who is beautiful to you.

If you were superficial you wouldn't have taken all this time to get to know her.
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 07:56 PM
Except he can't see her ... he does find her attractive based on her photos. Every time they text or talk he becomes even more attracted to her on a non-physical level.
The question is, is she so overweight that she will become unattractive in person? Either she's really photogenic, or she has some really good photoshopping skills, or Jedi isn't as opposed to being with an overweight person as he thinks he is.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by JustMe385
Except he can't see her ... he does find her attractive based on her photos. Every time they text or talk he becomes even more attracted to her on a non-physical level.
The question is, is she so overweight that she will become unattractive in person? Either she's really photogenic, or she has some really good photoshopping skills, or Jedi isn't as opposed to being with an overweight person as he thinks he is.

I know for certain that I must have a healthy partner.
I am not attracted to obese women on a physical level.
Unfortunately, we shared many similar values but physical healtg is important to me.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 09:02 PM
It may help you to look at it in terms of how Dr. Harley classifies it as deposits/withdrawals.

Her weight will be a withdrawal for you. She can fill you up with IC and affection, but may not beable to fill you up with RC. You will have to evaluate to see how she is truly draining your lovebank.

I am currently seeing someone who is short. It bothers me. Mostly because I like my platform heels. I am at his height when I wear them. I haven't decided yet how this will drain me. It drains me some, but not at the same level as the LOVEBUSTERS. I honestly believe he has the potential to fill me up with IC, RC, and affection, and his height will barely drain me so it could work.

I think it is great that you mentioned weight. Most women don't get it, and most feel it is shallow. It isn't ... it is a huge drain on a man's lovebank if he doesn't find his woman attractive. Weight is a huge part to this.

The key is she willing to do something about it? Her habits are going to tell you if she can change. Anyone has the ability to change if they want ... it is simply building better habits.

I know I will not marry a man who doesn't care for himself. I don't want to be in my 50's nursing someone already. I want to be in my 50's with an activity level of a teenager. I will not entertain a man who will not be active. By now (late 30's) their habits are going to tell me what I am dealing with.

It is okay to keep her as a friend also. Just because she doesn't do it for you romantically doesn't mean you can't be friends. Why not see if you can have that conversation with her?

If she choses to not move forward then so be it ... you learned something. If she does, then you have gained a good friend!!!

Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 09:43 PM
That's why the suggestion is to date 30 people, so you get an idea of what ENs you are good at filling and how and what ENs you would like met and how.
Posted By: Justthe3ofus Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/06/13 10:27 PM
I went to my grandmother's house when I was a kid. She had nuts in a bowl by her chair. While I waited for her to come out of her room, I helped myself to some of her nuts. She took a long time to come out so I kept helping myself.

When she finally got into living room she greeted me with a hug. I hugged her back and said, "Hi Grandma! I hope you don't mind, but I finished all of your nuts."

She replied, "Oh, those were actually chocolate covered nuts. I had my false teeth out, and so I couldn't finish the nut part."

Well, that's dating, right? The chocolate and the nut. It's not only the inside that counts.

I've heard Dr. Harley and Joyce talk about looks, and how that is one of the most challenged principals they put out there. Joyce likes to say its not the way the person looks as much as it is how they take care of their appearances. In this case, if you are put off by obesity or heaviness, then it simply won't work for you.

Sorry Jedi. It's not fun going through this kind of thing for either of you.
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/07/13 03:45 AM
But......Jedi......you DID have fun getting back into the game!

Yay!

Keep on trying with people. Be open to love working out for you.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/07/13 05:41 PM
I wrote her this letter:

Dear ,

I have deeply enjoyed getting to know you over the past weeks.
However I do not believe we would be compatible in a long term relationship.
I wish you the very best. Sincerely



Jedi

THIS IS A DRAFT. IF THER IS SOMETHING ELSE I SHOULD INCLUDE LET ME KNOW
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/07/13 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well today we discussd physical appearance and she told me she is overweight (I can't see it in her pictures)
She said she weighs 205, and recently lost 30 pounds and is trying tl loose another 30.
I her I think she is very pretty and she would look fabulous with another 30 off.
I said that in any future marriage, physical attraction is a top emotiinal need fkr me (see text):

Physical attraction is high on my emotiinal needs list so it would be important for me that you lost the 30 amd maintained it throughout (future talk) marriage




Well, she hasn't responded and posted on facebook Live yourself and dknt change for others
Now, i don't want a mate thats obese and that's a fact.
Did I handle this respectfully and correctly?

Jedi, I think you did well. A complaint is always a love bank withdrawal, so of course she wasn't happy about it. It doesn't sound like she's going to be willing to live a philosophy of extraordinary care.

Get right back up on that bicycle and keep trying, though! i.e., keep dating and looking for relationships.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/07/13 05:51 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Text:

Jedi I have grown Inareasingly close to you over the past month. I did not realize you didnt look at all my pics on facebook. One of the values we share is that of sacrafice.

redflag

Oops, no, she's mistaken. You don't believe in sacrifice, at least not in a marriage relationship. I may be reading too much into this, but it sounds like she's looking for sacrifice as proof of love, i.e., change how you feel about it instead of her changing her behavior.

I wouldn't have a deep discussion with her about it; I'd just note that she's not the one for you.

Quote
I am hurt that I feel you were thinking I was something other than I am

Translation: she's offended that you find physical attractiveness important. She's posting disrespectful comments about it on Facebook. Ouch!
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/07/13 06:51 PM
Quote
Originally Posted by Logans_Run
Also another thing to consider, weighing 205 would look different (male and female) if she is 5 feet tall verses 5' 8", along with other factors.

I'm 5'7" and weigh 120 lbs. 205 is a lot of poundage even at that height!
I'm 5'6", and I would be deathly thin if I were to weigh 120 lbs. Logan is right that many factors go into a person's ideal weight. A healthy weight is tied to more than just a number on a scale, especially for women.

Quote
Translation: she's offended that you find physical attractiveness important. She's posting disrespectful comments about it on Facebook. Ouch!
Next! She's not the one for you if she feels this way. I think your letter sounds good, Jedi. Meanwhile, you had a fun time and got your feet wet in the dating scene. Don't wait too long to find someone else to have fun with.
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/07/13 07:05 PM
I don't get her, Jedi ... she said she wanted to lose the weight, but you're superficial for wanting her to lose the weight?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/07/13 07:23 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
I don't get her, Jedi ... she said she wanted to lose the weight, but you're superficial for wanting her to lose the weight?

As I understand it, yes. She wanted to lose weight but also said shea comfortable with her weight.
When I communicated it would be an important emotional need of mine, she then postson facebook that "men are so superficial . I think ill just vomit all night long in disgust"
However she replied to me, "Thank you. I appreciate your honesty"
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/07/13 08:20 PM
Someone can appreciate honesty but still be frustrated by it.

i.e. if a wayward tells a betrayed that they are still seeing the other person. It would be honest but upsetting. YK?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/10/13 09:22 PM
OKAY....
I'm ready to revamp/ make a new profile on the dating site Plenty of Fish.
OR....Should I use another site?
I dont want to start subscribing to all of them.

Eharmoney will probably have some specials around New Year...

What site is best?
Posted By: stilltryingx2 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/13 01:27 AM
From a woman's point of view:

OkCupid, Match, OurTime, eHarmony, ChristianMingle, Zoosk, PoF, Date.com....all the sites I am on and paid for at one time or another. Maybe it's my region (Indiana) but all I seem to get are scammers, liars, idiots or guys looking constantly at my profile but never initiating conversation. If I send a message, no reply. I have no clue if it is different for guys. And yes, I re-vamped my profile to make it fun, light-hearted and witty.

Therefore, I can't honestly recommend any of them based on my experience.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/13 02:58 AM
I met some potential guys who didn't pan out on Plenty of Fish, but a good friend met her DH of 5 years there. And my fianc� on OkCupid.
Posted By: Jhamila Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/13 05:24 AM
um....Craigslist? I go to the "classifieds" and I've met lots of nice serial killers - er, dates - there.

KIDDING.

Match has the most people in my town - so the best chance of meeting someone I'd be interested in. Some of the same guys there were also on the other, smaller sites - so I felt like I could focus on Match.

But the 'down side' is that everyone's on it - even co-workers and friends. So, you're kind of "out there" for everyone to see. And your ex might be on there, but you can always block her.
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/11/13 05:38 PM
I've paid for Match twice and also tried Plenty of Fish and OK Cupid. I tried eHarmony briefly but never paid.

My experience -

Match - Was successful, I guess. First time I used it 4 years ago I met the man I spent the next 3 years with. When I used it over the summer, I only went on a date with one guy after about 3 months. So, not a great experience considering the cost.

OK Cupid - Went on one date. Found it to be the poorest quality/selection of men. Not sure why that is. The site itself isn't that pretty either, which for me was a turn off. They also have these ridiculous questions and I don't know what formula they use for "matches" "friends" and "enemies" but it seemed way off to me.

Plenty of Fish - Went on several dates; am currently dating someone ("The One"). Found this site most user friendly, found the quality of men much better, for some reason it seems to attract more of the type of man I was looking for (in terms of age range, career/family oriented).

eHarmony - When I tried for free, I did talk to a few men but never met any in person. It seems to focus more on building a true connection based on values than any other website. It seems to target those who are serious about finding a relationship that ends in marriage rather than just flirting, having fun, dating.

I'm still an advocate of Meetup. It's not online dating but it's the best way to meet singles in a low-pressure, fun situation which is especially important when you're just getting your feet wet. My experience with Meetup was that there were about 3x more women than men at all times so it's actually better for a man for finding a potential date.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/12/13 09:32 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I took my kids to the skate rink today; and encountered two women.

The first woman was about 25 or so and very attractive.
As I observed I was attracted to her, I asked myself: Why?
She has tattoes, which I dont find attractive. (Although I philosophically am not opposed to tattoes)
She had a great figure, a nice butt.
And she was the best skater in the rink.
I spoke with her briefly and she told me she is on a roller derby team and this is their off season.
So, I concluded I was attracted to her because she had a great body, and was a great skater.

The second lady I encountered was formerly a member of my church; her husband was a famiky counselor / associate pastor in the church and under very concealed reasons they left the church and he was dismissed from his job. Their divorce Is in the courts.
She is abt 45 and I said hello to her and her kids.
I found her attractive (although I certainly maintained full boundaries and would never tell her)
I asked myself; Why? She is physically attractive but older than I.

This made me question, What causes attraction?
I read of Dt Harleys experiment in college with measuring attravtiveness and all the students had different standards.
But I wonder, Why do I find a woman's buttox more appealing than their breasts?
Is the attraction a learned behavior? Or inherent?

Has Dr Harley ever spoke on this?


Okay, I signed up for okcupid. I followed an online guide for using okcupid and selected a good username, profile pics and content.

Within 10 minutes I was matched with Roller Derby Girl that I made the above post about last month!
we were matched because we both liked each others profiles.
I contacted her, she remembered speaking to me in the skate rink.
She asked me out, and we are planning for next Wednesday.
This is my first date in years.
She asked to go skating, and I suggested dinner afterwards.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/12/13 01:52 PM
Fantastic, have fun Jedi. What a small world.
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/12/13 04:54 PM
Aw. It was meant to be!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 01:38 AM
I canceled the date.
She was real wishy washy.
And she seemed to go quiet when she asked how many kids I had and I answered 3.

Regardless of her reasons, she couldn't commit to the wednesday date with certainty so I canceled and left the door open if she wants to ask me out again.

I read an article by Dr Love and he has a great website about how to date women.

I'm going to try his system
Posted By: karmasrose Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 01:49 AM
Maybe she doesn't like kids, or wants some of her own and doesn't want to "share" you? My guess.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 02:25 PM
Jedi I hope it's okay that I found comedy in that, I hope that's what you intended? I come from a family of 6 and now have two and all I can say is that 3 is exponentially more work than 1 or 2.

Maybe next time you could preface by saying that you don't expect someone to come in and get the kids back in line, it's more of an observe and report role. You're good with humor and could make that light and easy. My kids are a handful lol but they're my handful and not a burden on my fianc�. Hmm maybe I should ask him his opinion before saying that.
Posted By: living_well Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 03:09 PM
Yup 3 is definitely more complex because they then outnumber the adults. Mine would gang up and concoct all kinds of secret plans. I mainly blame Roald Dahl.

I remember my youngest at the age of 4 asking me detailed questions about what prison was like. Eventually I decided it was time to find out what was behind the questions. She confessed that she had cooked up a plan with her older brother and sister (ages 6 and 7) to kill their father, steal all the money from his pockets and open a sweet shop with the proceeds. Apparently I was going to have to take the blame so would need to go to prison for a while. Hence the concern as she did not want me to be too uncomfortable.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 03:15 PM
Here is the profile I posted on OKCUpid:

(I followed the guidelines on this blog: http://howtookcupidprofile.webs.com/) However she recommended posting a song and using different font colors and when I tried it okcupid immediately removed it so I dont think it can be done anymore):

PROFILE:

Name: RunningChef

SELF SUMMARY:

I love life! Gardening, running, family and food are passions of mine. I'm energetic and healthy, always looking for another adventure.
Im from the West Coast and find myself in Ohio many years later! I'm a single parent and spend a lot of time doing activities with my kids but still have time to date and devote to a relationship.

WHAT I'M DOING WITH MY LIFE:

I work in the fire protection industry, installing fire sprinkler systems. I have been in this industry since the age of 18 and enjoy my work very much, taking pride in the knowledge that I am helping to save lives.

The Xenia Marathon is coming up in April and I'm also training for that, in addition to moving into a larger home in December!

I'M REALLY GOOD AT...

.....singing in the shower!
and cooking awesome meals!
I'm also a good listener and organizer.

THE FIRST THINGS PEOPLE USUALLY NOTICE ABOUT ME:

I've been told people usually notice my dress and smile. I conduct myself as a gentleman and objectively

FAVORITE BOOKS, MOVIES AND SHOWS:

BOOKS
Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand
The Carpetbaggers by Harold Robbins
Gone With The Wind

I feel these books have helped me develop a personal philosophy about life.

MOVIES
Classics, Westerns, Action, Drama
recently watched The Rise of the Titans and loved it!

SHOWS
Blue Bloods - Starring Tom Selleck
Stargate SG1 - Starring the McGyver guy
Elementary - a Great TV show about Sherlock Holmes and his gorgeous assistant Watson

MUSIC
I usually listen to country in the car, rock when running and clean rap with the kids sometimes

FOOD
I really love good foods! Indian, Chinese, Thai, Mexican...I like it all and am always willing to try new food

THE SIX THINGS I COULD NEVER DO WITHOUT:

1. Push signs on doors that look like they should be pulled open

2. Church

3. Justice

4. Summer rains

5. The beauty of nature

6. Laughter

I SPEND A LOT OF TIME THINKING ABOUT:

...gravity.
I'm fascinated by the fact that the earth is orbiting around the sun, spinning and we all keep micromanaging our lives.
I think about philosophies, religion, human psychology.

ON A TYPICAL FRIDAY NIGHT I AM...

Going out for dinner and a movie; or perhaps staying home with a date and watching a movie with a glass of wine and dinner.

THE MOST PRIVATE THING I'M WILLING TO ADMIT:

Horror movies give me nightmares!

I'M LOOKING FOR:

Girls who like guys
Ages 27�38
Near me
Who are single
For new friends, long-term dating, short-term dating

YOU SHOULD MESSAGE ME IF:

You love Starbucks!

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 03:18 PM
I'll post my profile pic later for feedback;

The problem is that okcupid matches me with married women and orgy couples.
It seems like half of the site is cheaters.

I have also been editing my profile daily; I read that affects how its broadcast so I change a sentence etc
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Here is the profile I posted on OKCUpid:

ON A TYPICAL FRIDAY NIGHT I AM...

Going out for dinner and a movie; or perhaps staying home with a date and watching a movie with a glass of wine and dinner.

Good profile Jedi, but for some reason I'm a bit turned off by this. I guess because this statement isn't exactly true as you haven't been dating. I think it'd actually be more appealing if you said something like
"My actual typical Friday night: catching up on the DVR or dinner and a movie with the kiddos.
What I wish a typical Friday night would be: Date night with a special lady, cozy dinner at home followed by a movie and glass of wine"

For some reason when I read "perhaps staying home with a date" I can't help but think 1) you must go on an awful lot of dates, and 2) you're not really looking for anything too serious.

Just my opinion, others may disagree.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 03:33 PM
I understand; much of the profile isnt true.
For example, I dont care about signs on doors, etc.
Dr love says that women should never have the impression that men desire or need them.

Wouldnt that seem needy if I posted "i wish"?
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 03:41 PM
To be completely honest with you, I wouldn't think it was needy. Not if the rest of your profile communicated that you do have a life and interests and such. I like to see a man be honest and humble and vulnerable. It's no secret that you're on OkCupid because you're single and want to find that special someone.

I think you can say it in a funny way.
Perhaps the other ladies will chime in and disagree with me, so let's see before you change it.

I think it's okay to embellish a tiny bit, but the essence has to be true to you. Signs on doors, who cares about that, but the big stuff (running, cooking, like to eat different foods, the books and shows you listed) has to be accurate because if that's what she picks up on as a common interest and then you meet and she finds out you hate Starbucks, well that could set off red flags for her.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 04:19 PM
Jedi, I was thinking the same thing as JustMe, if you're out every Friday, then why are you on a dating site?

The Ayn Rand thing put me off too because I take that as a code word that you'd think my religion is just a crutch that you would try to cure me of. That and Gone With the Wind helping you form your philosophy of life is code for saying you're a racist and would try to cure me of my biracial family.

I doubt this stuff is true of you but just giving you my objective reaction. I like folks that stuck to the "happy with life" stuff and didn't throw me any obstacles. I also really liked folks that talked about what kind of stuff they were doing with their kids, like pick-up basketball games or roller skating. Then I figured they would be an asset to my family, not just a fun activity partner for me. Moms feel better about doing stuff that's good for their kids smile
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 04:23 PM

THE FIRST THINGS PEOPLE USUALLY NOTICE ABOUT ME:

I've been told people usually notice my dress and smile..."


If you were in a dress that's the first thing I'd notice too.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
Jedi, I was thinking the same thing as JustMe, if you're out every Friday, then why are you on a dating site?

The Ayn Rand thing put me off too because I take that as a code word that you'd think my religion is just a crutch that you would try to cure me of. That and Gone With the Wind helping you form your philosophy of life is code for saying you're a racist and would try to cure me of my biracial family.

I doubt this stuff is true of you but just giving you my objective reaction. I like folks that stuck to the "happy with life" stuff and didn't throw me any obstacles. I also really liked folks that talked about what kind of stuff they were doing with their kids, like pick-up basketball games or roller skating. Then I figured they would be an asset to my family, not just a fun activity partner for me. Moms feel better about doing stuff that's good for their kids smile

Well I posted Ayn Rand as a way of hopefully attracting an objective woman.
Gone with the wind and the carpetbaggers are also about objectivism.
I'm surprised you felt Gone With the Wind is racist. I see it as a struggle between those who can adapt to change (Scarlett) and those who cant (Ashley) and that's why she wasted her time with him. Rhett changed because the world was changing. Ashley didn't want to change and that's why his life was so messed up. In the end who is happy? Rhett and Scarlett.
Mitchell wrapped this philosophy up in a historical love drama but that is what the book boils down to

I want to attract someone that sees that as i do; Because I need a sane woman. Not a woman that is ruled by emotions.

Also I really dont want to attract a woman with kids.
I'm hoping there may be a single woman out there without kids.



Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 04:51 PM
And a healthy woman that can run 10 miles and eats vegetables......boy I really am out of luck aren't I?
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 05:15 PM
Also I really dont want to attract a woman with kids.
I'm hoping there may be a single woman out there without kids.



Jedi, have you considered expanding your age range a bit into the 40's? You'll find more women who have already had their kids (who are out of the house or almost out of the house) and are not looking to have more.

A single woman who has never had kids will likely want them - you are really limiting your pool to just those that never have and never will while meeting all of your other criteria.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 05:50 PM
How far should I go?
I'm 36.
I'm attracted to some women in their early to mid 40s.
However Harley seems to discourage going too much older
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 06:09 PM
If a woman had her two children by 25, by 40 she'll be realizing her last one is almost out of the house and she'll be alone.

If you go as far as 40 to 43-ish, you should be able to find women who love children (which is important for you) and are facing a lonely time in their lives.

At 45, I'm nowhere near ready to be an empty nester. I won't take any steps to find someone until my D is final (not even browsing a dating site), but my ideal candidate would be a man with lots of children in the house so when mine move out my house is still lively for more years.

I am also a runner and it makes me feel 35....why stop there - maybe 25! So if you find a healthy woman who runs (or has a workout passion) and loves children, she'll have the energy and wisdom to deal with yours. There's nothing like raising your own children to teach you how to be a great parent - yours will benefit from everything she's learned on hers.

She may be a better rounded candidate for you than a single woman in her 30's that hasn't had children and doesn't want them.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 06:12 PM
Okay ill change it to 43
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 06:30 PM
You may want to also solicite advice from the forum concerning your finances. Most women in their 20's/30's are going to have FS as their top need. You can't provide FS currently, and it may be a couple years until you are financially sound.

I know this because you have told the forum.

I have gone out on several dates. The man raved about his great job, his activities, his future hopes etc. When I learned that he actually had either high debt, a bankruptcy, and/or a foreclosure under his belt I didn't just walk I ran from the date.

Those turned me off huge because as a women all my aspirations about my future were crushed, and the thought "will he never learn the value of money" always be part of this relationship.

I understand finances can take unexpected turns, but the reality is they are going to be looking for you for their security. If you want a woman with no children then you are really putting yourself in a pickle because she will either be financially sound herself and/or have that requirement of you since she will have no kin to help her later in life.

I am okay with a guy who had gone through some trying times ... what I am not okay with is when you don't learn this up front right away. It seems to be the black eye of dating. There would need to be serious actions on his part to demonstrate his lesson learned, and to prove this kind of financial disaster will never happen again.
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 06:35 PM
Good luck.

I also think you dodged a grenade when you let the woman go who was hissing on her facebook page.

Someone who is passive to your face but aggressive behind your back would have kept you spinning circles around her.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 06:40 PM
I think the Venn diagram for that is going to leave a very small intersection - women who are open to raising your 3 kids, who have no kids and are enthusiastic about having no more, and are integrated enough to be honest with you. I think more likely you would find the first 2, but the third would be missing, she would be lying to herself that she is settling. Then when she wakes up and figures that out you'll need to be her emotional rock as she learns to be honest in all areas of her life. She probably was settling about other things too that she wasn't consciously aware of and will need to step up and have you step up in a big way.
Posted By: writer1 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
I think the Venn diagram for that is going to leave a very small intersection - women who are open to raising your 3 kids, who have no kids and are enthusiastic about having no more, and are integrated enough to be honest with you. I think more likely you would find the first 2, but the third would be missing, she would be lying to herself that she is settling. Then when she wakes up and figures that out you'll need to be her emotional rock as she learns to be honest in all areas of her life. She probably was settling about other things too that she wasn't consciously aware of and will need to step up and have you step up in a big way.

I was thinking the same thing. How many women are there who don't have any children of their own, don't want any children of their own, but are willing to raise someone else's three kids? I mean, they might exist, but that's going to be a pretty small number. Most of the women I know who don't have kids and don't want them made a conscious choice to be child-free, and they wouldn't be open to raising someone else's kids either.

Honestly, it comes across as kind of hypocritical to say you want a woman who doesn't have kids, but is willing to accept and raise yours. If I were single, this sort of requirement would be a huge turnoff for me, even if I didn't have children.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 06:48 PM
I am willing to have another kid.
I'm not closed to that option;

Also all the blogs I read said to avoid any negative talk, such as bankruptcy, divorce etcon the profile.

The reason why I dont want a single mom (preferably ; This is not set in stone) is because there can be conflict with kids and ex husbands/ boyfriends
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
The reason why I dont want a single mom (preferably ; This is not set in stone) is because there can be conflict with kids and ex husbands/ boyfriends

Well understood.

I wouldn't rule out women that had children, though. Those that are parents have a different perspective on things than, say, a single 28 year old hipster type that doesn't understand that you do not get to call in sick once you have kids.

You may find that you have more in common with someone that has had similar life experiences.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I am willing to have another kid.
I'm not closed to that option;

Also all the blogs I read said to avoid any negative talk, such as bankruptcy, divorce etcon the profile.

The reason why I dont want a single mom (preferably ; This is not set in stone) is because there can be conflict with kids and ex husbands/ boyfriends

I'm not saying it should be discussed. Just give a much more realistic picture. What you are looking for and what you can provide contradict each other. What woman wants to be with a man with three kids, expect to raise them, and possibly a fourth with someone whose financial house isn't in order? I cannot think of an emotionally healthy woman who would sign up for this.

If you pick a single woman who will continue to work, will she be okay with picking up the financial slack that cannot come from you and your three kids, i.e. you get no child support and/or your lifestyles will not mesh. Can you financially carry a family of six (if she does have a baby) without losing the time with your kids?

The single most important part to dating me is the fact that I will not be responsible for taking on the burden of the guy's finances. I cannot put my kid's financial future at risk by carrying two households. That isn't fair to my kids.

Therefore it is one of the first topic of discussions ... because there is no point in moving forward unless I understand where he is financially

Posted By: writer1 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
The reason why I dont want a single mom (preferably ; This is not set in stone) is because there can be conflict with kids and ex husbands/ boyfriends

True, there can be. But you are asking a woman to take on these conflicts that might exist with your kids/ex, while telling the woman you aren't willing to deal with any of this on her end.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:28 PM
I should clarify that I just want to date and have good conversations.
I dont want to have deep marriage discussions with dates on the first or second date.
Or is this not feasible in my age group?
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:31 PM
Then have friends only and don't use a dating website to meet them. Women in their 30's/40's are wanting marriage, or they want to be freeloaders. Most want to find a great boyfriend, and to get married. No one wants to be alone.

If you want just friends use Meet-up and not OKcupid.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:34 PM
I dont want just friends though;
I want a girlfriend....
but not a wife at this point
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:35 PM
I just dont want to have dates that are immediate interviews...
dates like when I was younger!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:38 PM
I'm going to suspend my dating profile until I have the following:

1. A list of qualities I am looking for and

2. A system for interacting with women

Dr Love claims his system is the best; I read a little about it and it consists of being vague and a man of mystery to women.
Does anyone know if this works?
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I should clarify that I just want to date and have good conversations.
I dont want to have deep marriage discussions with dates on the first or second date.
Or is this not feasible in my age group?

The rule of thumb is to have the first two or three dates start as freeloader, and then you move into renter.

I am very confused by your mission here. Like so many are saying all I am hearing is "Meet my needs" and don't be too much trouble, i.e. bring your past issues (divorce, ex-h, kids) into this new relationship from me.

I don't think this is your goal, so let me ask you some questions.

1) Are you sure you have your own emotional baggage in order?

I ask this because the kind of woman you want and what you have to offer are not one in the same. This is why I tell you to go out and just meet women (good, bad, silly, selfish, etc.) Meet all kinds ... learn from them. See what you like and don't like.

2) What are you willing to not have?

Because most women in their late 30's (even those without kids) were likely married once. What is the difference between a woman with an ex-husband and one with kids?

3) How do you plan to woo these women?

It sounds like you want them to be this person (yet very few women are like what you want). Women want to be chased and woo'd ... sometimes I hear from your feedback you have no desire to chase a woman or woo her. What then? How do you plan to compete with all the other men? The kind of woman you desire is a rarity, so you will need to be the one who outshines the rest of them.

4) What are you doing to beat out the competition?


Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:46 PM
I dont think I have a plan as you detailed above but I've been reading about Doc Loves system and he advocates men to be "Spartans" and not drool over women; he advocates attracting them to you through his System.

His book is $99 but I found a used on on Amazon for $50.....maybe I should go ahead and buy it.

I'm thinking back to all the John Wayne movies I've watched and he never pursued the women; they pursued him; also Ayn Rand taught that like values will attract like values....
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:50 PM
My ideal candidate would be a 26 year old foreign beauty queen with no emotional issues, no alcohol/ drug/ mental health issues, etc.....but obviously I know thats not possible.

Posted By: writer1 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I'm thinking back to all the John Wayne movies I've watched and he never pursued the women; they pursued him; also Ayn Rand taught that like values will attract like values....

You do realize there is a difference between reality and fiction right?
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:54 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I'm going to suspend my dating profile until I have the following:

1. A list of qualities I am looking for and

2. A system for interacting with women

Dr Love claims his system is the best; I read a little about it and it consists of being vague and a man of mystery to women.
Does anyone know if this works?

Jedi ... just jump in with both feet. Who cares what you meet at this point? The goal is to simply see what is out there. That will take a certain level of vulnerability on your part.

I used to analyze dating when I first got divorced. Then I started dating ... and dating ... and dating ... and getting guy friends ... and dating ... and getting more guy friends.

I've been burned, lied to, seduced, felt very confused, felt very angry, hated it at times, and loved it so much ...!

Welcome to the 21st Century of Dating!!! It's all about the craziness...nothing resembles how it used to be. It is all about the competition.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I'm thinking back to all the John Wayne movies I've watched and he never pursued the women; they pursued him; also Ayn Rand taught that like values will attract like values....

You do realize there is a difference between reality and fiction right?

Are you saying that men have to fight out competition to win a good woman?
Is every date a fight against the competition?
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I dont think I have a plan as you detailed above but I've been reading about Doc Loves system and he advocates men to be "Spartans" and not drool over women; he advocates attracting them to you through his System.

His book is $99 but I found a used on on Amazon for $50.....maybe I should go ahead and buy it.

I'm thinking back to all the John Wayne movies I've watched and he never pursued the women; they pursued him; also Ayn Rand taught that like values will attract like values....

Jedi...Really? Dr. Harley repeatedly states in thousands and thousands of pages of documentation ... pursue the woman!!!
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by writer1
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I'm thinking back to all the John Wayne movies I've watched and he never pursued the women; they pursued him; also Ayn Rand taught that like values will attract like values....

You do realize there is a difference between reality and fiction right?

Are you saying that men have to fight out competition to win a good woman?
Is every date a fight against the competition?


Yes ... Yes ... Yes ... and YES!!!!
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 09:59 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My ideal candidate would be a 26 year old foreign beauty queen with no emotional issues, no alcohol/ drug/ mental health issues, etc.....but obviously I know thats not possible.

I'm logging off after this ... but this screams to me I have no idea how to properly care for a woman, and it's all about me, and please don't be any trouble for me woman!

This is a serious question ... are you sure you are not really a freeloader? I derive that from your posts, your dating profile, and your feedback today. I'd run from you if I read you online!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I dont think I have a plan as you detailed above but I've been reading about Doc Loves system and he advocates men to be "Spartans" and not drool over women; he advocates attracting them to you through his System.

His book is $99 but I found a used on on Amazon for $50.....maybe I should go ahead and buy it.

I'm thinking back to all the John Wayne movies I've watched and he never pursued the women; they pursued him; also Ayn Rand taught that like values will attract like values....

Jedi...Really? Dr. Harley repeatedly states in thousands and thousands of pages of documentation ... pursue the woman!!!


Well, I've been chastised my some mods for not being familiar with MB principles and perhaps this is an area.
I've never heard Harley say to pursue a woman in dating.

Where does he say this?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My ideal candidate would be a 26 year old foreign beauty queen with no emotional issues, no alcohol/ drug/ mental health issues, etc.....but obviously I know thats not possible.

I'm logging off after this ... but this screams to me I have no idea how to properly care for a woman, and it's all about me, and please don't be any trouble for me woman!

This is a serious question ... are you sure you are not really a freeloader? I derive that from your posts, your dating profile, and your feedback today. I'd run from you if I read you online!

At this point in my life; Yes, I am a freeloader.
However, I would like to have a romantic marriage where the POJA and other MB rules are followed because I know that would be the best possible outcome in life.

I'm just saying that I truthfully dont want any baggage from a woman, but I understand that I'm not 20 anymore and so thats not possible
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/17/13 10:59 PM
Jedi,

There are unmarried women out there in their 30's who would happily take on step-children with a good man. Keep working at finding your new woman. Don't give up hope yet.
Posted By: JustMe385 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/13 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I'm going to suspend my dating profile until I have the following:

1. A list of qualities I am looking for and

2. A system for interacting with women

Dr Love claims his system is the best; I read a little about it and it consists of being vague and a man of mystery to women.
Does anyone know if this works?


Why play games? If a man I'm interested in is vague and aloof around me, I assume he's not interested and move on to the next guy. I don't have time for that.

You're reading so many books and articles and How to's, but it's too much. Stop thinking about it so much. Just be yourself, have fun, don't be someone or something you're not. If you go on a date, and some topic of conversation comes up in a natural state, don't think "well, So and So's book told me not to talk about it" - just go with the flow and take your cues from your date as to what to and not to talk about.

Do some women like men who are hard to get/vague/mysterious? Yes. Those women are not ready for a relationship. Any relationship-seeking, mentally stable, emotionally healthy woman doesn't have time for that crap.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/13 04:48 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I dont think I have a plan as you detailed above but I've been reading about Doc Loves system and he advocates men to be "Spartans" and not drool over women; he advocates attracting them to you through his System.

His book is $99 but I found a used on on Amazon for $50.....maybe I should go ahead and buy it.

I'm thinking back to all the John Wayne movies I've watched and he never pursued the women; they pursued him; also Ayn Rand taught that like values will attract like values....

I'm not sure what all of the above say, but I'm not sure Ayn Rand had a very good marriage. I've heard that she was very rough on some married people in her group (read about JoAnn Rothbard, although there is some debate about how historic the account is), that she dominated her husband, and that some of her writing was aimed at expressing her sexual frustration toward her husband. Disclaimer: I haven't actually made it through a Rand novel (yet).

I would focus on becoming skillful at meeting the typical woman's top two emotional needs. Check out Dr. Harley's little known concept of the "universal spouse" (remind me - I'll try to get you a radio show on this). That's what you want to be. Some similar material is in the end of HNHN in the section on "the man who is irresistible to his wife." This is the kind of things Dr. Harley used to teach men in his dating service.

And yes, Dr. Harley has talked about the importance of a man "pursuing" a woman, although that word could probably be easily misinterpreted.

Take a look again at the typical top five emotional needs of a typical woman:
Conversation
Affection
Honesty and Openness
Family Commitment
Financial Support

Work on those five things!
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/13 04:49 PM
Quote
Dr Love claims his system is the best; I read a little about it and it consists of being vague and a man of mystery to women.
Does anyone know if this works?
I seriously doubt it will work for most women. Women aren't attracted to vagueness. Women crave Intimate Conversation and Openness and Honesty. A man who wanted to be a "man of mystery" would only make me groan and roll my eyes.

I'd suggest that you work on becoming an expert at meeting a woman's typical emotional needs, instead.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/13 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by JustMe385
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I'm going to suspend my dating profile until I have the following:

1. A list of qualities I am looking for and

2. A system for interacting with women

Dr Love claims his system is the best; I read a little about it and it consists of being vague and a man of mystery to women.
Does anyone know if this works?


Why play games? If a man I'm interested in is vague and aloof around me, I assume he's not interested and move on to the next guy. I don't have time for that.

You're reading so many books and articles and How to's, but it's too much. Stop thinking about it so much. Just be yourself, have fun, don't be someone or something you're not. If you go on a date, and some topic of conversation comes up in a natural state, don't think "well, So and So's book told me not to talk about it" - just go with the flow and take your cues from your date as to what to and not to talk about.

Do some women like men who are hard to get/vague/mysterious? Yes. Those women are not ready for a relationship. Any relationship-seeking, mentally stable, emotionally healthy woman doesn't have time for that crap.

Vague and aloof is kind of the opposite of Openness and Honesty.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/13 05:00 PM
Jedi, take a good look at what Ayn Rand attempted to do to the marriage of Murray and JoAnn (Joey) Rothbard:

http://books.google.com/books?id=8D...ard%20ayn%20rand%20christian&f=false

The Gospel According to Ayn Rand, pages 20 - 22.

I am not attempting to turn you off of Ayn Rand or her works. I still hope to read them myself, some day. But I would not look to her for advice on how to attract a lady you want to be married to.

ETA: I wouldn't mind turning you on to Murray Rothbard as an alternative perspective to Rand. He sounds like he was a good husband, at least in one very important respect.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/18/13 07:22 PM
Originally Posted by JustMe385
Stop thinking about it so much. Just be yourself, have fun, don't be someone or something you're not.

I kind of agree, JK, that you might be overthinking this.

It's supposed to be fun, remember? smile

I would guarantee you that you're not the only one out there that has been out of the dating scene for over a decade, so don't be so hard on yourself.
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/13 02:25 AM
I liked your profile pages back.

Don't play games. Have fun. Be open to meeting lots of people who don't match you well but enjoy having met them.

You can always say "I enjoyed spending time with you but we are not a good match." and move on.

Eventually things will click.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/13 04:11 AM
Thats what I'm going to do.
I watched a John Wayne movie tonight, The Undefeated.
The Indian loved this white woman. And John Wayne told him, I taught you how to survive when snow comes, how to fight and how to deal with men....but women, nobody knows whats on a woman's mind!
Posted By: Jhamila Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/13 01:19 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Thats what I'm going to do.
I watched a John Wayne movie tonight, The Undefeated.
The Indian loved this white woman. And John Wayne told him, I taught you how to survive when snow comes, how to fight and how to deal with men....but women, nobody knows whats on a woman's mind!

As a woman, this offends me. frown If you want to know what's on a woman's mind, just ask.

I don't get the sense that you like women enough yet to start dating. Respect is pretty crucial to building any relationship - especially a romantic one. You've been deeply hurt, so I don't blame you.

You may want to spend some time healing. Otherwise, the good women (likely the ones you'll be attracted to) will pick up on the disrespect and dismiss you. You may get hurt over and over, and not know why. No fun.
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/13 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by Zhamila
As a woman, this offends me. frown If you want to know what's on a woman's mind, just ask.

I don't think he meant it offensively. It's been my experience that a lot of women don't necessarily say what they mean. Not all mind you and this is just my experience. Thankfully my wife is very direct and to the point. But my ex wife and many women I dated would often say "no, what I meant was..." or "you should have known that..." And I can remember many times a woman telling me that when she said she was fine with something that she really wasn't fine with it but went along with it.

I remember my mom would tell my dad "fine. Go ahead." This didn't mean to really go ahead or that she was fine with it. Whereas if most guys say that, that's exactly what they mean.

Like I said, not all women are the same but a ton of guys have the same experience that I have had.

Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/13 06:18 PM
Quote
And John Wayne told him, I taught you how to survive when snow comes, how to fight and how to deal with men....but women, nobody knows whats on a woman's mind!
As a woman, I laughed laugh
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/13 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Thats what I'm going to do.
I watched a John Wayne movie tonight, The Undefeated.
The Indian loved this white woman. And John Wayne told him, I taught you how to survive when snow comes, how to fight and how to deal with men....but women, nobody knows whats on a woman's mind!

I did laugh when I heard it. Hey, women are complicated! laugh
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/13 06:55 PM
"I remember my mom would tell my dad "fine. Go ahead." This didn't mean to really go ahead or that she was fine with it. Whereas if most guys say that, that's exactly what they mean. "

Yup, yup. My mother raised 5 girls and 2 boys and she likes to say the boys were so much easier. "You always knew what the boys were thinking, but my girls always had agendas." Guilty! grin
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/13 07:05 PM
Quote
Hey, women are complicated!
Markos says the female brain is melted. He seems to think Dr. Harley said that :P
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/13 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
Hey, women are complicated!
Markos says the female brain is melted. He seems to think Dr. Harley said that :P

Absolutely - Dr. Harley explained that the female brain has too many connections in it - all the parts are connected, which is why they have to think about everything all at once instead of being able to focus on one thing at a time. It's like the circuitry is just melted together.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/13 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
Hey, women are complicated!
Markos says the female brain is melted. He seems to think Dr. Harley said that :P

Absolutely - Dr. Harley explained that the female brain has too many connections in it - all the parts are connected, which is why they have to think about everything all at once instead of being able to focus on one thing at a time. It's like the circuitry is just melted together.

I need to come back and clarify that Dr. Harley NEVER said any of the above. I am completely joking! He talked about how men's and women's brains are DIFFERENT. I personally turned it into a big joke between me and Prisca about women's brains being "wrong."

I don't want anybody to read this and misunderstand and think Dr. Harley actually said all of this and think poorly of him. Dr. Harley would never say anything like that!
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/19/13 09:31 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
"I remember my mom would tell my dad "fine. Go ahead." This didn't mean to really go ahead or that she was fine with it. Whereas if most guys say that, that's exactly what they mean. "

Yup, yup. My mother raised 5 girls and 2 boys and she likes to say the boys were so much easier. "You always knew what the boys were thinking, but my girls always had agendas." Guilty! grin


Irrefutable proof that women can not met a man's need for open and honesty. MrRollieEyes
Posted By: SusieQ Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My ideal candidate would be a 26 year old foreign beauty queen

I would put that thought out of your head.... I would be careful who you say this to (women) because I personally find this offensive.

Why not just say someone I have chemistry//attraction with?

ugs.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My ideal candidate would be a 26 year old foreign beauty queen with no emotional issues, no alcohol/ drug/ mental health issues, etc.....but obviously I know thats not possible.

I'm logging off after this ... but this screams to me I have no idea how to properly care for a woman, and it's all about me, and please don't be any trouble for me woman!

This is a serious question ... are you sure you are not really a freeloader? I derive that from your posts, your dating profile, and your feedback today. I'd run from you if I read you online!

At this point in my life; Yes, I am a freeloader.
However, I would like to have a romantic marriage where the POJA and other MB rules are followed because I know that would be the best possible outcome in life.

I'm just saying that I truthfully dont want any baggage from a woman, but I understand that I'm not 20 anymore and so thats not possible

I wanted to comment on this, and apologize it has taken me a couple days to get back.

There are two kinds of freeloaders, and they are polar opposite of each other. I think sometimes this mindset gets confused, but in BRF it makes sense.

The term freeloader that Dr. Harley discusses is not something that changes. They go through life only wanting their needs met, and will put no effort into the relationship of meeting the other persons needs. It is their character, and likely a long life of bad habit building. The term Freeloader Dr. Harley discusses in BRF is a way of life. They jump from partner to partner when more is asked from them. The likelihood of getting them to change is slim. They consist of Selfishness and IB ... because its all about them.

There is also the "freeloader" who starts off dating. This person goes into the first couple of dates with their Taker in charge. They don't focus on meeting the other persons needs, instead they scope out how the person will properly meet their needs. They understand the relationship will not stay here long because it must move to renter stage in order to have a chance at building romantic love. This type of freeloader should have a "buyer" like character. In terms of MB even though they go into dating as a "freeloader" they do not consist of the same character traits unless they are truly a freeloader. Most in the dating world will move to "renter" quickly, and stay there.

Can you see the difference? Sometimes your feedback concerning what you want in a woman tells me you may fall into the first category "freeloader". It may not be something that is permanent and my thought it is likely due to some healing needed on your part. Your Taker is really on fire, and it is my experience while dating having the taker start out strong is good, but you should be able to transition towards the middle with Taker/Giver in Equilibrium. This can put you into renter within the first couple of months dating. After this POJA can start to enter the dating relationship, and then you can be a buyer while dating.

A woman will want to express her taker in the relationship relatively soon, i.e. by getting her IC and affection needs met. My question for you can you handle this? Can you date a woman and simply talk to her, her needs, her wants, her desires, her life, her failures, her kids, her hair, her clothes, her job, etc.?



Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 07:01 PM
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
The term freeloader that Dr. Harley discusses is not something that changes

I don't think that's the way Dr. Harley presents it. His whole book Buyers, Renters, Freeloaders is designed to help people move from Freeloader+Renter culture to Buyer culture.

This is made a little more clear in Defending Traditional Marriage - originally Dr. Harley found that he could not reach Renters and Freeloaders by trying to talk to them like a Buyer. He was a Buyer and could not communicate with them because he thought like a Buyer. To reach them he had to learn to think like Freeloaders and Renters. In doing so, he learned how to persuade them to try the Buyers agreement. Doing so transforms them into Buyers.

Defending Traditional Marriage is an interesting counterpoint/companion book to Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
A woman will want to express her taker in the relationship relatively soon

As will a man's. Dr. Harley's whole approach is to integrate your Giver and your Taker and make sure that you use your intellect to ensure that both are satisfied.

The Takers are a good thing! They just shouldn't be allowed to get their way at the expense of another person.
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 07:05 PM
Quote
The term freeloader that Dr. Harley discusses is not something that changes.
Are you aware that Dr. Harley acknowledges himself that he was once a freeloader?

He doesn't make a distinction between two different types of freeloaders, and I don't think we need to start doing that either.
The only distinction I can think of that Dr. Harley makes is:
Freeloading while dating = good
Freeloading while married = bad

Jedi's on the right track. He's a freeloader, but he has a willingness to be more eventually. This is a good thing.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My ideal candidate would be a 26 year old foreign beauty queen

I would put that thought out of your head.... I would be careful who you say this to (women) because I personally find this offensive.

Why not just say someone I have chemistry//attraction with?

ugs.

I need to clarify that I was joking when I said this.
Because obviously there is no young beauty queen with no baggage.
That was a joke like All Bundy would say.
I would like to date an attractive woman like Susie that is sane and not a drug addict or some other major issues.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 09:09 PM
Yes Home sweet home, I would be prepared to meet woman's top emotional needs.
But I would really just like to go on lots of dates, and that's kind of what Harley encouraged me to do...
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 09:12 PM
Originally Posted by Zhamila
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Thats what I'm going to do.
I watched a John Wayne movie tonight, The Undefeated.
The Indian loved this white woman. And John Wayne told him, I taught you how to survive when snow comes, how to fight and how to deal with men....but women, nobody knows whats on a woman's mind!

As a woman, this offends me. frown If you want to know what's on a woman's mind, just ask.

I don't get the sense that you like women enough yet to start dating. Respect is pretty crucial to building any relationship - especially a romantic one. You've been deeply hurt, so I don't blame you.

You may want to spend some time healing. Otherwise, the good women (likely the ones you'll be attracted to) will pick up on the disrespect and dismiss you. You may get hurt over and over, and not know why. No fun.

I feel that I've had plenty of time to heal. Almost 2 years.
I'm ready to date.
I respect women. I try to conduct myself as a gentleman
Posted By: writer1 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
But I would really just like to go on lots of dates, and that's kind of what Harley encouraged me to do...

In that case, just date, widely and diversely. It doesn't matter if every date you have fits your description of the perfect potential spouse, since it doesn't sound like you're looking for someone to settle down with immediately anyway. You may find yourself on dates with women who ultimately don't turn out to be a good match for you, but who cares? You haven't lost anything by having the experience of meeting them, other than maybe a couple of hours of your time, and you don't have to ask them out again.

Dating a wide variety of women will give you a much clearer picture of what qualities you do and do not like in a potential companion. It will also provide you with a much wider pool of candidates to choose from when you do reach the point where you want a relationship that goes beyond casual dating.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 09:57 PM
Just sayin, I have a ex BiL who married a beautiful young lady from the Phillipines, and it was great while it lasted....
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:04 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
The term freeloader that Dr. Harley discusses is not something that changes.
Are you aware that Dr. Harley acknowledges himself that he was once a freeloader?

He doesn't make a distinction between two different types of freeloaders, and I don't think we need to start doing that either.
The only distinction I can think of that Dr. Harley makes is:
Freeloading while dating = good
Freeloading while married = bad

Jedi's on the right track. He's a freeloader, but he has a willingness to be more eventually. This is a good thing.

So if a freeloader in marriage is bad, then what were they before marriage good? We can try and spin it however we want, but the fact is a freeloader in marriage was a freeloader in dating (and/or possibly a slight renter with very bad habits). One doesn't just wake up one day in marriage and turn into a freeloader. It is most likely learned behavior, and likely fully present while in the dating relationship. You read on here all the time ... we usually tell those dating freeloaders to run for the hills, and do not consider marriage.

I took from BFR a difference in freeloaders. I also discussed this with Dr. Harley who told me one can also be a buyer in dating. Most assume buyer is only marriage.

I agree in dating we start as freeloaders ... but most move to renters early on to demonstrate a willingness to meet the needs of the others and while lovebanks are being filled ... and some move to buyers in dating which demonstrates the proper use of POJA.

I have dated a lot of men, and many have been freeloaders. They have no desire to change (set in their ways). They have little desire to meet my needs, and feel entitled to me meeting their needs. They often come with IB, and I think they are quite selfish. When I start to press to get my needs met, they usually move on and the relationship is a no go. I usually find this out by date #3 or after several months of havng a friendship. Sometimes the freeloaders are difficult to spot, but over time their inability to demonstrate proper care usually rears its ugly head.

Yes I could marry one of them and get a freeloader in marriage, but I choose not to ... I choose run from them. I cannot see how one is a freeloader in marrige without showing great signs of this before marriage. We see these relationships on this forum extensively and in all cases they poster is usually advised to run for the hills.

Several of us women on Jedi's thread have discussed our concern with his feedback. I posed the question is he a freeloader? I don't know if he is, so I'd hope the feedback would allow him to honestly look at himself. He may not be a freeloader ... he could be a renter with just bad habits. I don't know ... but several of us have seen red flags and have provided the necessary feedback to grow.

My 2cents!!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:19 PM
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
[. You read on here all the time ... we usually tell those dating freeloaders to run for the hills, and do not consider marriage.


No, we don't. Because dating is a freeloader proposition in the first place. The freeloader doesn't own the house and is not going to make improvements, as such. The only time being a freeloader is a problem is if he STAYS that way in marriage. But you can't say "don't marry a freeloader" because people who date ARE freeloaders. Dr Harley was a freeloader; my H was a freeloader. They are now buyers.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:22 PM
This describe daters perfectly because they are just there to interview the candidate:

Quote
Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

This describes married people: [hopefully!]

Quote
Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accommodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:34 PM

Quote
Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

So you want me to date "this" and expect that "this" is going to be what? I certainly don't want to marry that...!

My definition of dating is the entire "time" up until marriage. Are we all on the same page here? Maybe my use of date is confusing people....when one dates they continue dating ... I am dating this person who is my boyfriend or girlfriend. I am going on a date with a guy I have been seeing for a couple months ... I am dating this man for four months. My definition of dating is building a romantic love ... it is my understanding a freeloader shouldn't be part of this "dating" or "courtship" except on the first couple dates, but after that they should go to renter.

How is this freeloader person you are telling me to date going to show me they can properly care for me while dating?

How am I as a dater going to be reassured that "this" freeloader you describe above is going to be good marriage material if I am expected to date that?

So date the freeloader ... did you just recommend that?

Step 1) Date
Step 2) Engage
Step 3) Marriage


Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:37 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
[. You read on here all the time ... we usually tell those dating freeloaders to run for the hills, and do not consider marriage.


No, we don't. Because dating is a freeloader proposition in the first place. The freeloader doesn't own the house and is not going to make improvements, as such. The only time being a freeloader is a problem is if he STAYS that way in marriage. But you can't say "don't marry a freeloader" because people who date ARE freeloaders. Dr Harley was a freeloader; my H was a freeloader. They are now buyers.

And again as a dater ... how am I going to know this person can properly care for me when they are expected to not put any effort into it? When does POJA get tested? After marriage? How am I going to be reassured this "freeloader" is going to be a buyer in marriage? Where's the test?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:38 PM
yep! Dating is just a job interview for marriage, which is a freeloader position. They do what comes naturally. One doesn't become a BUYER until they are married. While dating, one can express that they will become a buyer when married, but a person who is dating is still a freeloader until they have bought the house.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:41 PM
And just consider this point: a person is not a buyer until he is married. You can't be considered a buyer if you are not even married, because you haven't made a legal commitment. Sort of like test driving a car: you haven't bought it until you have signed the papers.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
yep! Dating is just a job interview for marriage, which is a freeloader position. They do what comes naturally. One doesn't become a BUYER until they are married. While dating, one can express that they will become a buyer when married, but a person who is dating is still a freeloader until they have bought the house.

I'll have BrainHurts pull my Harley radio interview, where he discusses I should be a buyer in dating and how that's good. I cannot recommend anyone to date a freeloader without any substance to prove they can not only meet needs, but successfully establish a POJA relationship.

I feel it is dangerous to recommend anyone date a freeloader and then marry them blindly without any action to back up their ability to meet needs.

I have read a lot and I do not know of anyone on this forum who has ever recommended marrying someone who doesn't have the habit of showing proper care, which not only includeds EN meeting but also the ability to resolve conflict.

It is my understanding by reading BFR and talking to Dr. Harley one should demonstrate action of good marriage building habits before you marry them.

I am a dater and I run from freeloaders because I don't want to take a chance on blind trust that that freeloader will be a buyer in marriage. I'd have zero ability to verify a freeloader.

Marrying a freeloader sounds like a gamble this betrayed wife certainly doesn't want to sign up for, and certainly something I would never recommend to anyone who has felt the wrath of adultery.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:51 PM
Something else to think about. When you test drive a car, you buy it on faith. You check it out, kick the tires and test drive it in the hopes that it will be a reliable car in the future. But you don't know for sure. You have make a judgment based on the information available to you at the time.

Same with a house. You have it inspected, appraised, check it's history. But you can't live there.

It is in that way that dating is a freeloader proposition. The goal of dating is to find someone who will be a BUYER in the future.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:53 PM
I dont understand why I should be a "buyer" if I'm not married and just starting to date
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
[
I feel it is dangerous to recommend anyone date a freeloader and then marry them blindly without any action to back up their ability to meet needs.

I have read a lot and I do not know of anyone on this forum who has ever recommended marrying someone who doesn't have the habit of showing proper care, which not only includeds EN meeting but also the ability to resolve conflict.

BUT, they are still a freeloader until they are married. They are not a buyer, by definition, until they are married. Once again, daters are freeloaders. Dr Harley says all the time he was freeloader when they were dating. He is now a buyer.

What you have to do is make sure your dating candidate will be a BUYER once married. The goal of dating is to eliminate - not freeloaders - but those will REMAIN freeloaders after married.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:56 PM
I understand to try to find people that have a similar philosophy on marriage.
That's why I listen one of Harleys books in my top 3 favorite books list , as a way of hopefully attracting someone of similar philosophy.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I understand to try to find people that have a similar philosophy on marriage.
That's why I listen one of Harleys books in my top 3 favorite books list , as a way of hopefully attracting someone of similar philosophy.

Exactamundo!
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 11:01 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
The goal of dating is to find someone who will be a BUYER in the future.

How will you know this is possible if the freeloader is expected to do nothing...only what comes natural?

It is my understanding one needs to work at EN meeting, POJA learning, and conflict resolution before you get married. I'd expect the person I am dating to do this with me, which means they won't be doing what comes natural. They will be doing something to build new habits.

I'd never compare buying a house or a car with a human who has been cheated on. I think it is dangerous to not recommend one demonstrate and expect their partner to demonstrate those characteristics before marriage.

All I am saying is I run from freeloaders in dating. If they cannot move to renter after a short time, then I'm done. They are too selfish and I certainly don't want to deal with their on fire Taker. YIKES!!!

Freeloaders in dating cannot demonstrate proper care and they certainly have IB, and Selfishness as part of their character.

I'd never date someone who maintains that level of Taker up until marriage. I'd NEVER recommend that to anyone I know who has been betrayed.

How do you recommend a freeloader then ... I am hearing blind trust. I'm not reading trust but verify here. We are human...not a car ... not a house ... humans with emotions! I'd like to trust and verify this human can meet my needs, negotiate properly, and have good conflict resolution before marriage because that protects me from a lifetime of a painful marriage and/or another bout with adultery.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 11:09 PM
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
The goal of dating is to find someone who will be a BUYER in the future.

How will you know this is possible if the freeloader is expected to do nothing...only what comes natural?

How do you know a house is going to be a good buy? How do you know a car is going to be a good car? How do you know a job candidate is going to be a good one? How do you know anything is going to be good before you buy it? You test it out and make a decision based on the information at hand.

But a dating person is a freeloader by his nature. They are SUPPOSED to be a freeloader at that point. They ARE independent by nature, because they are not married. Of course they are not going to have an integrated lifestyle BEFORE they are married. That comes after. Just like I don't fix up a house BEFORE I buy it, I don't change myself to accommodate a boyfriend, unless and until I am married.

Once again, Dr Harley says all the time he was a freeloader when they were dating.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 11:10 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My ideal candidate would be a 26 year old foreign beauty queen

I would put that thought out of your head.... I would be careful who you say this to (women) because I personally find this offensive.

Why not just say someone I have chemistry//attraction with?

ugs.

I need to clarify that I was joking when I said this.
Because obviously there is no young beauty queen with no baggage.
That was a joke like All Bundy would say.
I would like to date an attractive woman like Susie that is sane and not a drug addict or some other major issues.

Oops! Sorry, Jedi! I have online dating tips for you, I will come back. And thank you smile
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 11:10 PM
Well in the case of the poster who married Nature Girl, Harley encouraged him to practice POJA when they were boyfriend and girlfriend
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 11:12 PM
Also, the analogy between a house and a person is DR HARLEY'S idea and it is a legitimate analogy. I encourage the use of that analogy because it so aptly makes the point.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 11:13 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well in the case of the poster who married Nature Girl, Harley encouraged him to practice POJA when they were boyfriend and girlfriend

Yep, that is one good way to test the candidate. Will this person use the POJA? How will this person handle conflict? This is another way one can test the candidate.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 11:44 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
The goal of dating is to find someone who will be a BUYER in the future.

How will you know this is possible if the freeloader is expected to do nothing...only what comes natural?

How do you know a house is going to be a good buy? How do you know a car is going to be a good car? How do you know a job candidate is going to be a good one? How do you know anything is going to be good before you buy it? You test it out and make a decision based on the information at hand.

But a dating person is a freeloader by his nature. They are SUPPOSED to be a freeloader at that point. They ARE independent by nature, because they are not married. Of course they are not going to have an integrated lifestyle BEFORE they are married. That comes after. Just like I don't fix up a house BEFORE I buy it, I don't change myself to accommodate a boyfriend, unless and until I am married.

Once again, Dr Harley says all the time he was a freeloader when they were dating.

You recommend the freeloader and I'll recommend the buyer. I am in the dating world, and I am 100% certain nobody comes free of bad habits, and learning to meet needs and POJA takes one out of the "comes naturally" state.

I cannot recommend anyone date a freeloader unless it is fresh in the relationship. The guys that keep me interested in them are the ones who will meet my needs with proper care, work to resolve conflict, and learn the art of negotiation. As a betrayed spouse this is the only thing that remains a priority for me while dating.

I have zero interest in a man who demonstrates his Taker the entire relationship, and I certainly do not want a man willing to sacrifice to make the relationship work.

A man who dates me is one who understands win/win, and the goal of maintaining romantic love is using proper care to meet ENs. I have yet to find a single man (out of the 30+ I have dated in the past 18 months) to fit this billet exactly. Men in their late 30's and early 40's come with bad habits and baggage.

I caution you on recommending Jedi take the freeloader path throughout the relationship. I wouldn't date it and I wouldn't recommend a freeloader to my friends. With 85% of blended marriages ending in divorce I feel an extra layer of protection is needed. The ability of the person to demonstrate effortlessly buyer qualities not only takes an effort on their part to change, but also an effort from me to work with them. Bad habits are simply part of today's dating world. The goal is to build good marriage building habits while dating. I believe this makes them a buyer, which is something Dr. Harley told me to do during my last phone conversation with him.

Hence we both have buyer qualities that demonstrate the willingness to show proper care and EN meeting before we make the committment. Call me jaded, but as a betrayed spouse anything less puts me at risk for dealing with adultery again.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/20/13 11:57 PM
I heard Dr. Harley say the best preparation for marriage is POJA. If you can do that successfully, then you're on a good path.

Radio clip on engagement
Radio clip on engagement

So when someone moves from freeloader to renter to buyer (the natural progression of relationships) they will be good partners for marriage.

This is also why Dr. Harley recommends to date multiple partners during the dating period, to have the contrast effect.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 12:31 AM
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
[

You recommend the freeloader and I'll recommend the buyer. I am in the dating world, and I am 100% certain nobody comes free of bad habits, and learning to meet needs and POJA takes one out of the "comes naturally" state.

No, I recommend someone who WILL BECOME a buyer in marriage. A dater, by definition, is a freeloader. But I accept and acknowledge that daters are freeloaders by definition. To believe otherwise is to believe that if a dating relationship becomes rocky, the wisest path would be to go to years of counseling [for the purpose of changing behavior] versus eliminating that candidate. The former would be a buyer strategy but would be very inappropriate when dating. What would be appropriate in that situation would be to break up.

So if Jedi is going to date, he will be dating freeloaders. He will have to determine who will be a BUYER in the future.

Keep in mind that Dr Harley is a self described FREELOADER when he was dating but is a 100% buyer since he has been married. Imagine what Joyce would be missing out on if she rejected him for it!

Now, I do agree with you that a candidate must show a willingness to become a buyer once married, but a dater is not a buyer by definition because he has not made a legal commitment.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
The term freeloader that Dr. Harley discusses is not something that changes.
Are you aware that Dr. Harley acknowledges himself that he was once a freeloader?

He doesn't make a distinction between two different types of freeloaders, and I don't think we need to start doing that either.
The only distinction I can think of that Dr. Harley makes is:
Freeloading while dating = good
Freeloading while married = bad

Jedi's on the right track. He's a freeloader, but he has a willingness to be more eventually. This is a good thing.

Prisca stated it perfectly in this post. That is Dr Harleys position.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 04:08 AM
Here.
Radio Clip on Jedi_Knight's Call
Segment #2
Segment #3
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 04:27 AM
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
Hey Brain when the archives come ... can you post the buyer radio show from 4 September that discussed being a buyer?

I think Dr. Harley suggested one can be a renter and a buyer in dating...unless I heard him wrong???

Thanks Tough~
Here it is.
Radio Clip
Segment #2
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 04:36 AM
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
I'll have BrainHurts pull my Harley radio interview, where he discusses I should be a buyer in dating and how that's good.
Here it is.
Radio Clip on Tough's Call On Dating
Segment #2
Segment #3
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 04:41 AM
Homesweet, if you were going on dates with a guy and he wasn't a match for you, would you be a buyer and go to counseling or say "this isn't the relationship for me?"

I know when I was dating, I wanted a stable relationship that would lead to marriage. A buyer would do stuff like integrate checking accounts and in dating, I'm not going to do that. And if the person had that need for FS and wanted to be a stay at home spouse, I would indicate whether I was okay with that or not but I wouldn't immediately tell her she could quit her job... That would be saved for marriage. And, not to mention, the first part of dating is getting to know each other and introducing each other to the ENs and getting on board with POJA. I would run from a woman that immediately started into POJA because without understanding the concept it can seem controlling.

Think about this... Most guys have a high need for SF. A buyer would be interested in meeting this need. Are you going to start being intimate with the guy you're dating very quickly or are you saving that for the marriage or the engagement time?

My understanding is dating is freeloader, being engaged is renting, and marriage is buying.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 05:34 AM
A buyer demonstrates the ability to show care, meet needs, and POJA ... when that happens in the relationship depends on the couple. As Dr. Harley states to me in my phone calls with him one should become a renter/buyer in dating.

How one goes about it is their business. All I'm trying to tell Jedi is remaining a freeloader the entire time up until marriage is likely not optimal considering that most folks come with bad habits and baggage. It best suites the dater to hone in on good marriage building habits such as proper care, POJA, and need meeting.

When and how one does it isn't my business. I will not continue to date a freeloader ... they scare me and give me zero reassurance that they have the fundamentals of a good marriage.

By the feedback I was provided on a couple occasions by the good Doc ... it is very wise for me a single mother to set my bar high ... I.e. buyer high.

If others feel they get a great catch by dating a freeloader then more power to them ... I will not date them and I tell all my single friends to run from them. This is why I am still dating because I feel the more opportunity to see these freeloaders for their lack of care, selfishness, and IB the better I am at knowing what I want.

Women in dating get to drive this ... this isn't a man driven area. I am asked out weekly, and I have several men I may consider as renters. I find men really do want a great wife. I am able to meet their needs except for sex. We don't need sex for romantic love ... so I don't worry about SF. In my opinion after dating 30+ guys and having a handful of guy friends that being a freeloader isn't wise. Usually most guys I date match me on my values. So we can transition to renter fairly quickly, but their lovebusters drain quickly. If they only do what comes natural they won't address the lovebusters. Why give up so quickly if they can demonstrate a willingness to care for me be building a better habit? If we meet needs well isn't getting rid of the lovebusters ideal? Some do and some don't ... the ones that don't are no longer dateable to me. The ones that show a willingness keep my attention. I can't expect to date anyone perfect ... but what I can expect is their willingness to POJA with me. If I had a habit that was bad and the person I was dating asked me to build a better habit I'd do it. It's all about the willingness to show proper care ... seriously how's that not your ideal candidate?



Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 05:50 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[quote=HomeSweetHome][

Now, I do agree with you that a candidate must show a willingness to become a buyer once married, but a dater is not a buyer by definition because he has not made a legal commitment.

So if one must only show a willingness "once married" how does that protect a betrayed spouse from not eternally being bonded with someone who may or may not be a buyer?

Why should any betrayed spouse marry someone who hasn't already demonstrated their "ability" to be a buyer? If your buying a mansion that needs no fixing you have already verified it by doing a whole host of inspections beforehand. If you decide to buy a decrepit house how are you ever going to know it can be fixed up? Fixing takes time and energy ... I don't want that. Plus it may tell me it wants to fix itself but after marriage it gets lazy and decides its happy being decrepit.

I want my mansion ... the place I inspected ... the place that demonstrated to me it was a good buy. The place that invested time and energy beforehand to make itself the best. I'm not going to take the word it's a good house unless I can see it with my own eyes... I expect that house to demonstrate to me it's a good house.

Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 06:15 AM
Demonstrating the ability to be a buyer is different than being a buyer.

Read my post. My wife is a stay at home wife. I wouldn't have supported her when we were dating. I was willing to in marriage. So I was willing to be a buyer. But I was not a buyer during dating.

And if a buyer is one that is willing to meet the ENs of the other and the other has a high need for SF, but you are not willing to meet this need, then are you fully buying or are you renting?

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 08:15 AM
"So if one must only show a willingness "once married" how does that protect a betrayed spouse from not eternally being bonded with someone who may or may not be a buyer?"

No, one shows a willingness before married, to actually BE a buyer after married. They are not a buyer, though, until they have bought, ie: married.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 02:42 PM
I never said that I was going to be a freeloader permanently.
Some posters said that I sound like a freeloader and asked if I was one.
Its impossible for me to be a renter or buyer because I'm not married, dont have a girlfriend, or even a date!
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by kilted_thrower
Demonstrating the ability to be a buyer is different than being a buyer.

Read my post. My wife is a stay at home wife. I wouldn't have supported her when we were dating. I was willing to in marriage. So I was willing to be a buyer. But I was not a buyer during dating.

And if a buyer is one that is willing to meet the ENs of the other and the other has a high need for SF, but you are not willing to meet this need, then are you fully buying or are you renting?

We talk about this on another thread in dating. FS and SF are not needed to build romantic love. It's the ability to meet the most important ENs and the elimination of love busters that is key. If my dating partner had a need to be a stay at home dad after marriage I can demonstrate this ability to fulfill the need by going to work, showing them my bank accounts, and my budget, likewise I need my SF need met. My boyfriend can demonstrate his ability to meet the need by talking to me about it, by showing me his affection, and his awesome yoga moves!!!

I believe the good Doc that SF will fall into place when romantic love is met.

My concern going into marriage would be can this person and I maintain a romantic love threshold and not drain each other by sacrifice and love busters. If you listen to my radio conversations with Dr. Harley he agrees. One should learn to eliminate love busters and the importance of this.

As a betrayed spouse I wouldn't want anything less....so my bar for men is high. I'd hope they had a high bar as well. Feelings follow actions...!

I'll say it one last time ... you can be a freeloader in dating up until marriage, but I would be very concerned one may get stuck with a bad egg. We talk about this in the dating thread. Many freeloaders just don't work out well.

If you read BRF .... the freeloader sounds like a very bad choice during marriage. I've been in the dating world long enough to feel very scared of the freeloader. Men not willing to demonstrate proper care during dating will likely not do it in marriage. This betrayed spouse only believes actions. Words mean nothing unless verifiable. Feelings follow actions ... that makes me feel safe.
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
If you read BRF .... the freeloader sounds like a very bad choice during marriage. I've been in the dating world long enough to feel very scared of the freeloader. Men not willing to demonstrate proper care during dating will likely not do it in marriage. This betrayed spouse only believes actions. Words mean nothing unless verifiable. Feelings follow actions ... that makes me feel safe.

Also, you need to be aware of red flags and act on them. Such as those pretending to wanting to meet your needs, only to be an actually freeloader. Ignoring the red flags during dating will get you that bad egg in marriage.
Posted By: My4Loves Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 03:48 PM
]
Originally Posted by Logans_Run
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
If you read BRF .... the freeloader sounds like a very bad choice during marriage. I've been in the dating world long enough to feel very scared of the freeloader. Men not willing to demonstrate proper care during dating will likely not do it in marriage. This betrayed spouse only believes actions. Words mean nothing unless verifiable. Feelings follow actions ... that makes me feel safe.

Also, you need to be aware of red flags and act on them. Such as those pretending to wanting to meet your needs, only to be an actually freeloader. Ignoring the red flags during dating will get you that bad egg in marriage.

That's why you watch them by their actions. Words mean nothing. Men can say all day long they will do this and they will do that ... but that means nothing. It's what one can verify.

The first guy I dated was super hot. He met my needs, FS, affection, IC, and RC. We had a good time, and he spent money on me like no tomorrow. We started out as office friends, but after a couple months I could see his IB, and his minimal time with his kids. We talked about his IB, like you think you could give up golf some to do this with your kids? He wouldn't and felt his Saturdays with his buddies were his time. I broke up with him almost after that discussion because I knew his habit of IB was likely not going to change much. He had no desire to change.

Then I started dating another guy. He started off very IB. He and I had great IC, RC, and he was very affectionate. He met my FS need, and I liked him. His IB during the first three months of the relationship was a huge turn off because again I knew he wasn't going to give this up. But he proved me wrong. When I broke up with him I told him I was just not sure he and I could mesh our lives, and he had no kids and I had several. I felt we should go our separate ways. He proved me wrong. He came to me after a couple weeks, apologized, wooed me, and said he was willing to work with me on negotiations and showing me proper care. He felt I had great qualities in a woman, and so forth. He demonstrated his actions to me all the way up until I moved. He was a great catch, and looking back I can see how he was working on himself to be a better boyfriend. I learned a lot from that relationship.

I have several guy friends who are now going into dating with knowledge of EN's and POJA. Many of guy friends are open to POJA. Some say they aren't because it is too controlling...so you just say, Okay then good luck to you.

A guy I became great friends with in August is starting to come around and woo me some. He and I have had many great discussions about adultery, POJA, and EN's. He doesn't have a close relationship with his 15 year old son, but is working some new approaches with his son to be more involved.

These are things one should be looking at during dating. Can people who have made mistakes have a willingness to correct them. Like I said most people in our age range have bad habits and baggage. It is how they show they can overcome those obstacles that makes the person desirable in my opinion.

I would never take a man for his word ... I would want him to really demonstrate he cared for me. My WxH believed in the notion his needs trump all others and I should sacrifice. I did that for years. I won't do it any longer. Many freeloaders fall into this pattern. They love women to meet then needs at their expense. I have had many many dates with those kind of folk. Most men in our age range are set in their ways.

There is a good portion of men out there that want to learn and do better. They want a marriage that is great. They have to overcome the sacrifice notion as well. It's those men who understand how sacrifice ruins marriages that get my vote. It's those men in dating that show enthusiasm for the win/win that get my extra vote. I've only found oneof them so far (out of 30) ... so the rarity is real.
Posted By: Justthe3ofus Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 05:02 PM
Marriage is the biggest commitment one makes, so one should only enter it with a sense of ownership. Dating, on the other hand, is a series of field tests. No commitment. Its a try out. Almost all sports teams at the school level have try outs, right? No commitment to any player is made until the try outs are over. Part of the dating "try out" is getting a sense of compatibility, character, and how well each is able to meet the other's needs. It's also a chance to discover things that are not so appealing or that are red flags.

The concept of "freeloader" and "buyer" applies to many areas of life. For example, we see them both in the work place every day. There are employees who are there just to collect a pay check, and then there are those who see themselves as shareholders and who treat their workplace as if they "own" it. We all know which of these two make for better employees. I look at being a buyer as commitment. I really like what Hyundai had to say about this in one of their commercials a few years back:


Some people have the integrity and the substance to understand commitment, while others are shallow and don't have the will to see a commitment through and let their roots run deep. Though dating isn't a commitment in the way that marriage is, you will discover the person's quality over a period of time and find out if they are committed to those things that are most important: faith, family, work, and community. This is what Home Sweet Home was pointing out. But that speaks to the person's values, not the process. The dating part of the process is a try out, not a commitment.

The freeloading aspect of dating is simply a function of the process. When we are dating, we are on the free market. We can take it or leave it if its not right for us. If we like it a lot, we prepare to make a commitment, and once we are ready to commit we are locked in forever. At that point we become owners, or "buyers" as Dr. Harley puts it.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/21/13 05:58 PM
Awesome post, Justthe3ofus! You stated it perfectly. smile
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/22/13 03:11 AM
Well I took the kids skating today.
There was an attractive woman with 4 kids there.
I went up to her and said "Hi" and engaged in some light conversation.
I asked if she was a single mom and she said she was married.....so I quickly backed out of the conversation.
She wasn't wearing a wedding ring so I had no way of knowing.

Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/22/13 03:27 AM
Hearing Jedi described as sounding like he doesn't want to be a Buyer sounds to me like the times I've heard wives on this board who have been trying to bring their husbands around for 3+ years, the husbands are still abusing/neglecting them, they desperately need to go to Plan B, and some knucklehead shows up saying "You have to show him you are willing to have a good marriage with him."

banghead

Of course Jedi plans to be a Buyer. Isn't that obvious? Just as obvious as the fact that women in that situation desperately are willing to have a good marriage with their dirtbag abusive husbands if they will ever get their heads out of their butts and straighten out?

I'm not sure how anyone could say different with all the effort he has been putting in around here first to save his previous marriage and now to learn the program and how to be a good husband! Makes me wince to see people suggest otherwise.
Posted By: reading Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/22/13 04:09 AM
Jedi,
I rarely wore my wedding ring (my finger would swell during the day and it was super uncomfortable when it did so I literally could not keep it on).

I am so impressed that you asked.

Good job.
Posted By: Jhamila Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/22/13 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by Logans_Run
Originally Posted by HomeSweetHome
If you read BRF .... the freeloader sounds like a very bad choice during marriage. I've been in the dating world long enough to feel very scared of the freeloader. Men not willing to demonstrate proper care during dating will likely not do it in marriage. This betrayed spouse only believes actions. Words mean nothing unless verifiable. Feelings follow actions ... that makes me feel safe.

Also, you need to be aware of red flags and act on them. Such as those pretending to wanting to meet your needs, only to be an actually freeloader. Ignoring the red flags during dating will get you that bad egg in marriage.

I could not agree more that "words mean nothing" while dating.

I've dated 25 men in the past 6 months. Many have said they've "learned so much" from their divorces, but their actions show me otherwise. They say they want to meet a woman's needs, that they want a life-long partnership, but it's painfully obvious that they are unwilling to make even the simplest accommodations in a relationship (based upon their ex GF horror stories & dating behavior).

Several are deeply discouraged and wonder aloud if it just takes "too much work" to please women & "nothing they do is good enough."

My heart breaks for these men, as the gap between their understanding and their desire is so great, and they cannot figure out why they've been unsuccessfully looking for a wife - for years. In my age range, women are pretty cautious about remarriage and they watch for behavior that shows "I'll become a buyer."

My personal experience is that men usually want to date me exclusively rather quickly (my first freeloader-to-renter clue) but after I'm "locked in," their behavior shifts ever so slightly. I tread lightly, listen a lot, and watch their behavior with their exW, children, boss, and friends...and with me. And this is where things fall apart rather quickly.

These aren't bad guys...but they just haven't learnt to appreciate the differences between men and women, or the need for both people to be happy long-term.

Probably my greatest "early" clue is: do they speak respectfully of people - especially of women? Without profound respect for others, it's awfully hard to avoid SDs, DJs, and anger. It's nearly impossible to live by the POJA if a person believes - deep down - that the other person is "irrational" or " ridiculous."

Our culture sure doesn't help men much. It's a bummer. frown Thank goodness for MB.


Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/23/13 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My ideal candidate would be a 26 year old foreign beauty queen

I would put that thought out of your head.... I would be careful who you say this to (women) because I personally find this offensive.

Why not just say someone I have chemistry//attraction with?

ugs.

There is nothing offensive in stating his preference. People have be smart enough to realize that most people can not be every guy's/girl's dream date.

Though a dialogue in the movie king pin a few can.
Posted By: Jhamila Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/23/13 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My ideal candidate would be a 26 year old foreign beauty queen
I would be careful who you say this to (women) because I personally find this offensive.

If I heard a statement like this from a man, he would be immediately eliminated from my pool of eligibility.
I am looking for a man who wants an equal partner.
This statement is the opposite (in my mind): it makes me think he wants a young, easily dominated, bright shiny toy. I would say good luck to him, and move on.

Jedi is perfectly within his right to state his preference. And ladies are also within their rights to take the information available to them and go somewhere else.

I acknowledge that I could be reading too much into the statement here - which might cause me to miss a great person! But the fact is that in dating, I have very little information to go on, and every word counts. I listen carefully for any hint of an 'I don't really want an equal partner" attitude - and move on quickly if I hear it.
Posted By: Jhamila Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/23/13 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by zhamila
I could not agree more that "words mean nothing" while dating.
Originally Posted by zhamila
...and every word counts.
I should clarify, these sound like opposites!!

The first statement should probably read: "promises mean nothing," or "statements assuring a person of future good behavior while actions and history have not shown it - mean nothing."

THIS is why I would never succeed in politics...although I'm sure there are many other reasons as well! wink
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/23/13 05:09 PM
I think the reason why some of your are reading more into it is because you are. 26 year old beauty queen = young, hot woman. He didn't say anything about dominating a woman. Maybe 26 because typically younger = energetic. Who knows. I don't see this any different than a woman saying she wants a man who is financially well off or rich.

I spend a good amount of time in the gym. Some women think big muscles are gross. This is their preference. I don't think it's insulting. They're just preferences. It's not like the poor guy wants to hook up with children.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/23/13 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by Zhamila
I acknowledge that I could be reading too much into the statement here - which might cause me to miss a great person!

You are definitely reading too much into the statement here. I don't think it's a problem if it causes you to miss a great person - there are plenty of great people available. But I think it's causing you to be pretty rude to a nice guy.

Nothing wrong with making a joke that of course he'd love a 26 year old beauty queen to drop into his lap, and I think you should quit riding him so hard about it. It doesn't mean he wants to dominate his wife - that's ridiculous and totally out of character for him. He obviously wants a marriage based on Marriage Builders principles.

Prisca has jokingly told me I'm not allowed to die before her because she doesn't want to be left without me, that she has to go first. My joking response was that afterward I'll go chase 20 year old women. Prisca doesn't feel dominated, nor does she think I want to dominate anyone.

I think you should leave Jedi alone - you are being extremely rude and disrespectful to him. We get that you didn't find the joke funny.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/23/13 05:48 PM
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 12/23/13 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My ideal candidate would be a 26 year old foreign beauty queen with no emotional issues, no alcohol/ drug/ mental health issues, etc.....but obviously I know thats not possible.

Loose paraphrase:

"Of course, if I could have everything I wanted, I'd like a 26 year old foreign beauty queen with no issues to appear out of nowhere and start a perfect relationship with me, but of course I know that's unrealistic, and I intend to look far and wide, find a good woman, and give myself to her totally in a relationship of extraordinary care, which will certainly include protecting our marriage from threats and competition."

I'd say the phrase "issues" is a little bit loaded - too many men (and women) dismiss their spouse's feelings as being caused by "issues," rather than separating the concerns of a) I want to respect and consider your feelings in all things regardless of the cause and b) I want you to avoid being demanding, disrespectful, or angry to me regardless of how you feel.

But other than that - let's be honest, men are turned on by beauty. We can try to beat that out of them with disrespect, or accept it.

I'm sure I'd love to have a relationship with a 26 year old beauty queen - provided certain other conditions were met! But I don't even take the first step toward that because I value and protect my marriage with Prisca. Who I would rate as a 31 year old beauty queen, actually...
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Forgiveness Question - 12/23/13 07:39 PM
I have a question about forgiveness.
I was speaking with a minister today and he encouraged me to forgive my ex wife; During this conversation I shared with him the key points of Harley's article, Why Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

The minister responded by pointing out Second Corinthians and said that I should do it to show an example of God's forgiveness, and as Paul said, so that the sinner will not be given over to the Devil. He does not advocate forgetting and he states there should still be high boundaries.
He told me his brother in law was recently killed by a teenager with a cell phone and that it was difficult for his sister to forgive but she did.

I have thought about this and was curious what other thought.
He suggested I write a brief letter to ex wife simply stating that our relationship is permanently severed (still be in plan B) but that I forgive her for her adultery.

He says he deals with a lot of people that have bitterness and I told him that I dont feel bitterness.

I am starting a new year and going through major life changes and if a letter of forgiveness would perhaps help ex ww repent and seek a relationship with God then I would be willing to do that, as it would also permanently close that chapter of my life so I could move on into this new year
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/23/13 09:41 PM
Jedi,

Here's what Dr. Harley says about forgiveness and he's speaking from a Biblical perspective:

Dr. Harley uses Matt 18:15 and Luke 17:3 as his basis for talking about what it means to forgive.

When we forgive someone it is for the purpose of reconciliation so that the end result is a relationship. He says that if reconciliation isn't happening, then forgiveness really has no purpose.

From Dr. Harley's perspective, the other person would repent and then we would forgive. Repentance would mean a 180 turn from the sin. The condition for God's forgiveness of our sins is repentance. If this were not so, then everyone would be forgiven without condition. Some people quote Jesus on the cross asking God to forgive those who were crucifying Him, because they "didn't understand what they were doing." They use this passage as the reason we are to forgive even when someone is not asking for forgiveness. However, many many verses in the Old and New Testaments show that God requires repentance of His people.

Forgiveness can happen when a person owes a debt to you that they cannot repay. When the debt is forgiven, it is forever wiped out.

Forgiveness is a term that is often used incorrectly. What many people really mean is to "let go" and to get on with one's life.

That is what you want to do. You hold no bitterness toward your wife, but you also don't want a relationship with her. You are letting go and moving on. You don't wish her ill and you are not dwelling on the pain she brought to you.

If you really want to write your wife a farewell-type letter, you could say something to the effect that you hope she has a good life and that you wish her the best. But then still, what would really be the point of it? Unless you parted on horrible terms and you want to clear the air, then you can just let your Plan B love letter stand.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/23/13 09:53 PM
The only purpose of any letter would be to offer spiritual benefit to ex ww.
The pastor said that it could allow her to see the love of God.
I also am entering a new phase in my life and want to close this chapter of my life forever
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/23/13 10:13 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
The only purpose of any letter would be to offer spiritual benefit to ex ww.
The pastor said that it could allow her to see the love of God.
I also am entering a new phase in my life and want to close this chapter of my life forever

I do understand where you are coming from. You want to offer to your XWW the opportunity to experience the love of God. But I am trying to picture how such a letter would be helpful. You would be very kind, I'm sure, telling her how you wish her well and that you will be praying for her that she finds success and happiness in her life and that she finds God. Meanwhile, also said kindly, please never contact me and I won't be contacting you. These two aspects don't really coincide very well, do they?

Are you planning to stay in Plan B? If so, then a letter of forgiveness but no relationship seems contradictory of forgiveness.

But letting go and moving on is very good for you.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/23/13 10:32 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
The only purpose of any letter would be to offer spiritual benefit to ex ww.
The pastor said that it could allow her to see the love of God.
I also am entering a new phase in my life and want to close this chapter of my life forever

JK, I agree with Longwayhome that sending her a letter is not going to achieve your purposes for the reasons she gave. The best way to allow her to see the love of God is to pray she will be recognize God. Sending her a letter is not necessary because those spiritual benefits come from God, not you.

The way you close that chapter of your life is to close that chapter in your life completely. Like longway pointed out, you don't need to offer up "forgiveness" in order to shut that door, you just need to shut the door.

And I want to remind you of one of the most powerful scriptures, in my opinion, telling us not to associate with the works of darkness. That is how satan gets a foothold in our lives. Ephesians 5:11, Proverbs 1:10, Proverbs 28:4

Stay away, my friend. Place her in God's hands and accept that you cannot force her to come to God.
Posted By: markos Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/23/13 10:43 PM
Let me throw in that God is constantly sending your ex-WW love letters every day, calling her back to Him.

I agree strongly with what LongWayFromHome and MelodyLane are saying above - in fact LongWay has got probably the best summary I've ever seen of Dr. Harley's position on that subject.

I decided to "let go" what my wayward mother did to me many years ago. At the time I called it "forgiveness." She definitely never repented, and there was no reconciliation. I also chose to quit making attempts to reach her spiritually, because they were fruitless. She is in God's hands, and if she comes back to God the instigation of that decision will not be through me.

He hasn't left himself without witness. (Acts 14:17) I'm sure that you shared your Christian faith with your ex-WW many times in the past. I can't see how a new contact would be sufficient to help her spiritually when the old contact was not.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/24/13 12:15 AM
Okay. I will just leave it as it now is
Posted By: stilltryingx2 Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/24/13 03:19 AM
***EDIT***
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/24/13 04:04 AM
Originally Posted by stilltryingx2
***EDIT***

I feel that I have done this.
I dont really have anger or bitterness towards her any longer.
I really just want to focus on the next half of my life.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/24/13 04:51 PM
An excellent clip on forgiveness.
Radio Clip on Forgiveness
Posted By: Justthe3ofus Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/24/13 05:50 PM
Jedi,
Mercy and Forgiveness are central to the Christian faith. But there is a difference between reconciliation and forgiveness though they are closely tied together.

Reconciliation is a restorative process that the Church has in place that heals relationships between one person and God and the others who were hurt by the sin. Reconciliation requires 1) an examination of conscience, which requires one to come out of the fog of denial, 2) a confession (an admission of the transgression, which includes an appeal for forgiveness), 3) an act of Contrition (a genuine and sincere expression of sorrow for what has been done and a promise to not do it again, and 4) penance (an act or prayer that atones for the mistake in God's eyes). So as you can see from this process, the responsibility for reconciling falls on the sinner. But through God's grace and the grace of the victim, this process reconciles and heals. When done with genuine intention, reconciliation is a beautiful, life-giving sacrament.

I believe that Dr. Harley stays away from the term forgiveness because forgiveness without the true recovery process that includes just compensation, leads to a false recovery.

I'm sure that Dr. Harley, a faith-filled Christian, believes in mercy and forgiveness as they are at the heart of the Gospel message. But he has seen too many couples offer forgiveness without putting in place the essential elements of just compensation, without which recovery is impossible. You can forgive a drug addict over and over, but until they make a commitment by going through process to come clean they will walk all over you. Same goes for one in an affair.

So here is how I see this applying to your situation. I don't think you should tell her that you forgive her because that takes her off the hook. It's a free pass, which does neither you or her any good. It's meaningless. But if she were to go through a genuine reconciliation process then you are bound to forgive as Jesus demands us. I ask you this: Who would you rather be in the parable of the Return of the Prodigal Son? The father or the brother. More importantly, which role would Jesus ask you to take? (Luke 15:11-32)

I think that maybe your pastor is concerned that hurt, anger, and pain have created in you a resentment that will not allow you to heal. Forgiveness can free you of those things and give you new life. Have you ever seen the Clint Eastwood's film Unforgiven? It's a great morality play about people who carry the burden of resentment and let it activate their hate into vengeance, and the bloodbath that ensues makes losers out of everyone. Or to look at it from the opposite perspective read this story about a South African woman who lost her husband and son to atrocity: http://www.thirdway.com/rad/?Page=1659|Fainting+to+the+tune+of+Amazing+Grace
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/24/13 06:21 PM
JediKnight has said that he feels no bitterness toward his XWW. He has "let go" of her and is moving on with his life, with an eye toward a good future for himself and his children.

Forgiveness is, as you said, tied to reconciliation and restoration of relationship. There is no such restoration of the relationship, so letting go is appropriate in JK's case.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/24/13 07:13 PM
The point that Dr Harley and longwayhome are making is that one does not have to go though a fake, one sided forgiveness to move forward from the bitterness and anger. I don't know where we ever got that idea because it simply isn't true. People can and do overcome anger and bitterness successfully without going through all this.

I have not "forgiven" my XH but I feel no bitterness towards him. He has not asked for my forgiveness, in the first place. A better way to relinquish the anger is to stay away from the person and avoid triggers. That has worked beautifully.
Posted By: markos Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/25/13 01:42 AM
Merry Christmas, Jedi!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/25/13 03:11 AM
Thank you all for the advice and Christmas wishes
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/26/13 12:38 AM
Do Chinese use wedding rings?
I saw a beautiful Chinese lady at the Chinese restaurant tonight (where I took the kids for dinner)
I'm tempted to go back and try to talk to her.

I used to know a Chinese restauranteer but he moved and I lost my unofficial cultural attache.
Posted By: reading Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/28/13 12:35 AM
Why don't you go back and ask her if she is married.
If not, ask her out.

Rings missing don't necessarily mean not married for any culture. Some very dedicated, married women don't wear them for comfort and safety reasons.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/28/13 03:11 AM
Originally Posted by reading
Why don't you go back and ask her if she is married.
If not, ask her out.

Rings missing don't necessarily mean not married for any culture. Some very dedicated, married women don't wear them for comfort and safety reasons.

How do you ask someone if they are married?
Do i just ask "Are you married?"
How should i do it?

I know how to ask her out if she's single.
I dont know how to start a conversation with someone that may be married
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/28/13 04:38 AM
Could you ask one of the coworkers of the lady? You could say to her coworker that she is certainly very attractive and then ask if she's married.
Posted By: reading Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/28/13 04:58 AM
You can also make pleasant conversation with a woman and respectfully say

"Do you mind if I ask......are you married?"

If yes, you say "He must be a lucky guy" and pull back from anything further.
If no, you can say "Would you mind having coffee with me sometime?"

etc.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/28/13 05:14 AM
Okay ill do that.
Thanks for the guidelines.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/29/13 03:37 AM
My dad told me not to ask her out. He said her father decides who she marries and is allowed to date and I would just be getting myself into trouble.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/29/13 03:59 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My dad told me not to ask her out. He said her father decides who she marries and is allowed to date and I would just be getting myself into trouble.
How did he find this out?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/29/13 05:09 AM
He said that is how the Chinese are.
I didn't know.
I know the Indians are this way. I've done business with several Indians and they all tell me that they pre arrange marriages
Posted By: kerala Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/29/13 05:47 AM
How unbelievably reductive.

Posted By: living_well Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/29/13 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
He said that is how the Chinese are.
I didn't know.
I know the Indians are this way. I've done business with several Indians and they all tell me that they pre arrange marriages


Some Chinese are that way but not all. Arranged marriages are very MB. The families are very close knit and often live multi generationally. Parents look for matches that fit the personality of their child and for someone from the same cultural background. The young people meet and decide if the chemistry is there. If it is not, both move on with no hard feelings.

A spouse chosen this way will always get the full support of the family because they helped to select him/her. This resolves one of the greatest stresses that can happen in a family. These marriages can be extraordinarily successful. I know young Indians, both girls and boys, who have asked their parents to help arrange marriages rather than finding their own love match.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/29/13 02:55 PM
I have read that arranged marriages have the same success rate as the do it on your own. Not all Indians and Chinese have arranged marriages.

The girl you like can be westernized and open to either way.

You definitely have no chance of dating her because you will not ask her.

Posted By: reading Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/29/13 05:53 PM
She could always tell you, if you inquire about a date
if she will go on one, if she is not interested or if she will not date without family input.

BTW...you don't have to try to date her.

You can keep on looking for potential women who you might feel more comfortable schmoozing with and asking out.

There is a whole world out there full of single women waiting for you to cross their paths.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/29/13 05:58 PM
Yes Reading. Thats my plan.
Posted By: Justthe3ofus Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/29/13 06:18 PM
Dude,
It's paralysis by analysis right now. If you're attracted to someone ask her out and find out for yourself it its a good match. Cease and desist with the profiling since its causing you to over-think things. That's why Dr. Harley says date at least 40 people so that you can find out through the process.

And if you're looking for Mrs. Perfect it's going to show when you start dating women and I think that is going to work against you. Gonna make things a little uptight, methinks. Let the process unfold a little more naturally. Relax Brah, and have fun with it.


Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/31/13 03:37 PM
Well, I was talking to three women online...
and all of them backed off when they found out I have my 3 kids full time.
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/31/13 06:32 PM
I think that is a blessing for you that they did that before you became emotionally invested.
Posted By: kilted_thrower Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/31/13 09:05 PM
It also depends on how 'Americanized' the Asian family is. I have seen dozens of my graduated students that are Asian marry and none were arranged marriages.

Seriously, go backYou're bacon me crazy hahahaha. Ask if she would like to have lunch with you or meet for coffee if she is not in an exclusive relationship.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/01/14 01:59 AM
I met 2 women at the skate rink tonight.
I went up, introduced myself, made small chat.
The next time I see them ill ask for their phone number.

I started growing a mustache, which Is bound to attract women
Posted By: reading Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/01/14 02:25 AM
LOL on the mustache. Some women don't like them......

Anyway. Good job getting in action online and IRL.

Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/01/14 02:41 PM
Everyone's different. I would take raising 3 kids on your own a very positive sign that you have what it takes to be there even when it's *tough*.
Posted By: reading Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/01/14 03:32 PM
If you have it stated in your profile somewhere.....

you will attract women who find the fact endearing and attractive.

Some women are not ready to share a man with their children to that extent and some are up to the experience and would love it.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/01/14 04:22 PM
I posted in my profile "single father of 3 wonderful children"
Posted By: reading Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/01/14 06:05 PM
Okay.

Make sure it says

'single father of 3 wonderful children who live with me full time.'

That'll help!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/01/14 06:39 PM
10-4. I'll do that
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/02/14 01:09 AM
Im starting to encounter a problem....
my new mustache is growing a personality of its own...
it is demanding that I try to grow a fancy mustache but I just want a normal mustache.

How would Dr Harley recommend to apply the POJA in this situation?
Posted By: Jhamila Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/02/14 03:19 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well, I was talking to three women online...
and all of them backed off when they found out I have my 3 kids full time.

Some women might be afraid your exW is crazy or drug-addled, or other drama. When the guy has the kids full-time, it can make some women nervous. Not a reflection of whether they like kids...perhaps just a fear of "why." So if you can explain the situation and alleviate concerns about it, it might help? Not sure if they've given you the chance.

50/50s tell me that both parents are loving and involved, and emotionally healthy. It's just a quick barometer, not always a fair assessment. Sorry it's tricky - online dating is full of snap judgments.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/02/14 03:21 AM
Originally Posted by Zhamila
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well, I was talking to three women online...
and all of them backed off when they found out I have my 3 kids full time.

Some women might be afraid your exW is crazy or drug-addled, or other drama. When the guy has the kids full-time, it can make some women nervous. Not a reflection of whether they like kids...perhaps just a fear of "why." So if you can explain the situation and alleviate concerns about it, it might help? Not sure if they've given you the chance.

50/50s tell me that both parents are loving and involved, and emotionally healthy. It's just a quick barometer, not always a fair assessment. Sorry it's tricky - online dating is full of snap judgments.

Well in Ohio the standard order for parenting is not 50/50.
It is every other weekend and every wed for the non residential parent.
Posted By: Logans_Run Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/02/14 03:41 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Im starting to encounter a problem....
my new mustache is growing a personality of its own...
it is demanding that I try to grow a fancy mustache but I just want a normal mustache.

How would Dr Harley recommend to apply the POJA in this situation?

Well, your not married to it, so shave it off and go with a goatee. Nothing wrong with switching sides.
Posted By: reading Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/02/14 03:49 AM
The mustache must behave. It must not get wild.

As to a man having full physical custody.....if some women see that on a dating website, they will think "What a good guy to be there (emotional need of family commitment)" Yes, they will think your ex must be a lost soul to leave it all to you but they will figure an ex who doesn't have the kids is probably missing in action anyway. That the ex is g.o.n.e.

Women who find it attractive will come out of the crowd of people you see.
Those women would be a better match for you. They will openly embrace being potentially a full mate for you.

They will not turn and run, but be intrigued and open.
Posted By: Jhamila Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/02/14 05:49 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well in Ohio the standard order for parenting is not 50/50.
It is every other weekend and every wed for the non residential parent.

It's not the standard order in either of my city's states either (we straddle states). But non-custodial parents who ask for it are granted 50/50 unless there are very unusual circumstances (like drugs, or other indicators of an unfit parent). And the weekend parent is usually the Dad, so if the weekend parent is the Mom, that's a concern for some women (again, the fear of drama).

If your approach is that there is 'no drama,' and you alleviate any concerns from the beginning, it might help some of those more skittish ladies online. We dating women can be pretty gun-shy and sometimes the slightest thing can make us slam the door shut. Not fair, of course, but knowing your audience and what they are looking for/seeking to avoid is always helpful. Just my $.02.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/08/14 05:19 PM
I have come to realize that I am not being efficient in certain areas of my life.....

online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303933104579306664120892036?mod=e2fb

Ive had issues with procrastination in the past and read an article on WSJ today which hit the nail on the head...(above)

Ive been putting off priorities while (as the article describes) checking Facebook on my Mobile or checking this forum. Its not in my best interest to do so

So, I am resolving to remove my facebook app (I was using it so my family could see pics of the kids but I think ill just mail real pics instead...they are only 20� or so at w algreens)...
And I will limit my posting on here to the evening after I lay my kids down, around 9:30 - 10:00 pm.

If you see me make a post outside of this time, PLEASE hold me accountable and chastise me on this thread!
Thank you dearly.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/18/14 04:36 AM
Im starting to plant indoors early...peppers, tomatoes and some flowers...

Im planning on planting zinnias along the street in front of our new home....and planning to convert half of our yard to garden for this year!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/18/14 04:41 AM
Moving has been more complicated than I anticipated.
I've also had problems with online okcupid...and decided to suspend actively looking for a date online.

I don't like online dating.
I understand that a third of people meet online...yet I'm being matched with open marriage people and morbidly obese people and I'm terrible at examining pictures.

So I have decided to focus on fixing my house (previously unoccupied for 3+ years), living my values and raising my kids.

I will continue to flirt with women as I meet them in person, but I will no longer try to find them online; nor read literature about how to get them online etc.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/18/14 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Im starting to plant indoors early...peppers, tomatoes and some flowers...

Im planning on planting zinnias along the street in front of our new home....and planning to convert half of our yard to garden for this year!


Do not convert too much of the lawn into flower beds. You will create a high maintenance landscape. I have seen to many people create landscapes that they can longer maintain or afford to pay someone to maintain it. banghead

And, AND, do not dare tell me how much fun as a guy that you enjoy spending all that time on your knees. rant2
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/18/14 02:37 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Moving has been more complicated than I anticipated.
I've also had problems with online okcupid...and decided to suspend actively looking for a date online.

I don't like online dating.
I understand that a third of people meet online...yet I'm being matched with open marriage people and morbidly obese people and I'm terrible at examining pictures.

Not anti dating sites. If single would I try one maybe. But I would not have high hopes. Because if a woman is pulling in guys in real life why is she using the internet.

The past month or so a site Farmers Only has been advertising on TV. Where they show a couple of pretty young women that were lonely before. An now found a man after joining Farmers Only.

If you saw how pretty these girls were you would say I can't believe they needed a dating site to get a man.

I do not know of anyone that has used a dating site though that's because I not on the young half of my life.
Posted By: tccoastguard Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/18/14 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Im starting to plant indoors early...peppers, tomatoes and some flowers...

Im planning on planting zinnias along the street in front of our new home....and planning to convert half of our yard to garden for this year!


Do not convert too much of the lawn into flower beds. You will create a high maintenance landscape. I have seen to many people create landscapes that they can longer maintain or afford to pay someone to maintain it. banghead

And, AND, do not dare tell me how much fun as a guy that you enjoy spending all that time on your knees. rant2

Lol... some people actually enjoy planting things and watching them grow. I'm certainly not one of them but more power to Jedi if he is. Speaking of, don't worry about the online dating thing. Everything has its time. Maybe it's time for you to concentrate on you and the kids. Besides, maybe you'll meet your future lady at a nursery or home depot. smile
Posted By: tccoastguard Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/18/14 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Moving has been more complicated than I anticipated.
I've also had problems with online okcupid...and decided to suspend actively looking for a date online.

I don't like online dating.
I understand that a third of people meet online...yet I'm being matched with open marriage people and morbidly obese people and I'm terrible at examining pictures.

Not anti dating sites. If single would I try one maybe. But I would not have high hopes. Because if a woman is pulling in guys in real life why is she using the internet.

The past month or so a site Farmers Only has been advertising on TV. Where they show a couple of pretty young women that were lonely before. An now found a man after joining Farmers Only.

If you saw how pretty these girls were you would say I can't believe they needed a dating site to get a man.

I do not know of anyone that has used a dating site though that's because I not on the young half of my life.


There's all kinds of reasons attractive women use dating sites. Curiosity, lack of available single men within their social circles, lack of attraction to the bar scene, new in town, etc.
Posted By: reading Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/18/14 04:19 PM
Dr.H has said that online dating expands the circle of potential dating material.

That it is a good thing for single people due to that.

Think about it.........there are amazing people out there you would never otherwise meet.

That is why quality men & women do it.

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/19/14 03:40 PM
Originally Posted by tccoastguard
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Im starting to plant indoors early...peppers, tomatoes and some flowers...

Im planning on planting zinnias along the street in front of our new home....and planning to convert half of our yard to garden for this year!


Do not convert too much of the lawn into flower beds. You will create a high maintenance landscape. I have seen to many people create landscapes that they can longer maintain or afford to pay someone to maintain it. banghead

And, AND, do not dare tell me how much fun as a guy that you enjoy spending all that time on your knees. rant2

Lol... some people actually enjoy planting things and watching them grow. I'm certainly not one of them but more power to Jedi if he is. Speaking of, don't worry about the online dating thing. Everything has its time. Maybe it's time for you to concentrate on you and the kids. Besides, maybe you'll meet your future lady at a nursery or home depot. smile

I do not want to say how I know this. Though I see many people that age leaves them with a landscape that they no longer can take care of themselves or afford to pay someone to take care of them for them.

I did not say do not plant flowers. One can get many large pots and have very nice plantings around their deck/patio. Fall dump the dead plants put the pots in a shed. When you have aged like a fine wine and can not longer put out the pots you don't. And you have a easy lawn to mow on your feet or seat. Which is better then beds full of weeds and you can not get down on your knees.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/19/14 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by tccoastguard
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Moving has been more complicated than I anticipated.
I've also had problems with online okcupid...and decided to suspend actively looking for a date online.

I don't like online dating.
I understand that a third of people meet online...yet I'm being matched with open marriage people and morbidly obese people and I'm terrible at examining pictures.

Not anti dating sites. If single would I try one maybe. But I would not have high hopes. Because if a woman is pulling in guys in real life why is she using the internet.

The past month or so a site Farmers Only has been advertising on TV. Where they show a couple of pretty young women that were lonely before. An now found a man after joining Farmers Only.

If you saw how pretty these girls were you would say I can't believe they needed a dating site to get a man.

I do not know of anyone that has used a dating site though that's because I not on the young half of my life.


There's all kinds of reasons attractive women use dating sites. Curiosity, lack of available single men within their social circles, lack of attraction to the bar scene, new in town, etc.

Not all women on the dating sites wear apparel by Omar The Tent Maker. rant2

Not every woman on dating sites are the from the Lee family. rant2

You know them. Beast, Ghast, Ugh, and their cousin Home. rotflmao


There is cross section of people on those sites as in real life.

Though as time goes on. Or as every year goes by the pickings get slimmer because the good ones keep getting culled out/taken.

So odds are the ones that are in there 30's and up are for the most part are not going to be prime choices for the most part. Because why is it that a person never dated much? Why divorced 2 times already? Why have they never married happy to be just renters? These things are red flags.

Yes there can be average people in their 30's 40's never dated because the had no game and were almost terminally shy. That would make a good spouse. Those are not that common.

Employers looking at a resume are the least likely to hire someone that has too many jobs and or out of work. Red flags that odds are they will not be good employees.

When the economy went bad in 2007. Employer's were openly saying for the first time that I could ever remember. That if a person was out of work in this economy then they must not be good, let alone if they have not stayed on jobs that long. Though they forget that they are downsizing all the time.

Dating sites have a lot of people that have been thrown back. Just like the potential people to date at work, recreational activities, bars, parks, where ever you can meet people.

The one good thing about dating sites is that it gives one more people to fish from then what you can do in real life.
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/19/14 04:17 PM
Dating sites keep your options open, and provide more options. Also, a low-maintenance yard will provide more time available for dating or for playing outside with your kids.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/20/14 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by BlairBluefin
Dating sites keep your options open, and provide more options. Also, a low-maintenance yard will provide more time available for dating or for playing outside with your kids.

Such brilliant thinking you would swear that she was a man. MrRollieEyes
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/20/14 03:35 AM
Originally Posted by BlairBluefin
Dating sites keep your options open, and provide more options. Also, a low-maintenance yard will provide more time available for dating or for playing outside with your kids.

Last year I converted nearly half of my back yard to vegetable and corn garden.
I moved a couple weeks ago and plan on doing the Same at this house.

My kids can help me work in the garden.

I love fresh vegetables.
I have a juicer and also enjoy juicing a lot.

So gardening is a pleasure for me.
And I say that knowing how difficult it is to dig up turf and replace with garden
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/20/14 05:47 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Such brilliant thinking you would swear that she was a man. MrRollieEyes

T/J
Thank you! smile Back to a project of refinishing furniture!
/End T/J
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/20/14 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
And I say that knowing how difficult it is to dig up turf and replace with garden

I agree about digging up turf - it is hard work. But the joys of gardening are worth it. Having a large garden is time-consuming. It just depends on whether your future woman loves all that time spent in the garden as much as you do.
Posted By: Justthe3ofus Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/22/14 06:10 AM
I designed and did 100% of the labor in my back yard. It was a large rectangle of compacted soil. Put in the patio, sprinklers, lawn, flower beds, and vegetable garden.

Yes, it is a very high maintenance yard, but beautiful from March through October. The art of cultivating a beautiful outdoor space is quite fulfilling, and all of my family and guests enjoy the scenery.

So have at, Jedi. So long as you enjoy the work, it's a great thing to do.
Posted By: tccoastguard Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/22/14 02:21 PM
I've been thinking of doing my own patio this spring. Did you guys use pavers, bricks, concrete, etc?

Do you have a list of ideas on what you're planting this year Jedi?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/22/14 03:43 PM
Yes! Corn, zucchini, cucumber, peas, lettuce, tomato, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, wheat grass for juice.
I tried melons last year but was unsuccessful so I will stay away from those and strawberries.

A gent from churvh is a master gardener and specializes in butterfly gardens and he will help me create a butterfly garden.

Along the street, I am planting zinnias. I did last year in my old house and they looked beautiful. I also planted sunflowers along the fence and I will do so this year too.
I like the zinnias because they are drought resistant.

Im also planting herbs but havent decided which ones.
I have a lot of space in my new home and I want to can this year.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/22/14 04:32 PM
I had a stamped concrete patio put in last summer and it was worth every penny. My father and BIL helped me w/the landscaping around it....got a grill and dining set and there's a separate firepit area. We used it almost every weekend this past summer - family and friends would come over and we would hang out there around the fire at night.... highly recommend if you can afford it!
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/22/14 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Im also planting herbs but havent decided which ones.

I planted chives, Italian oregano, cilantro, parsley and basil in my flowerbeds. I used them as greenery between several other types of flowers, so they don't stand out unless you're looking for them. The Italian oregano brought a lot of bees into the garden because of the flowers. Plant what you will enjoy the most and what you will use often. And have fun!
Posted By: Justthe3ofus Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/22/14 11:25 PM
Originally Posted by tccoastguard
I've been thinking of doing my own patio this spring. Did you guys use pavers, bricks, concrete, etc?

Do you have a list of ideas on what you're planting this year Jedi?

I used pavers. The book said it was a weekend job. Ha! Took me a month-and-a-half with a lot of vacation days used. But it was a big project. Still, looks better than simple concrete in my opinion.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/07/14 05:20 AM
My youngest asked Santa for a mom for Christmas....

Im almost tempted to date just to find one. ..
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/07/14 03:10 PM
Your daughter is fantasizing about a real mother who will love her as much as you do. It doesn't quite work out that way in real life. Most little girls view step mothers as competition!
Posted By: 235 Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/07/14 11:21 PM
Melodylane, I wanted to read a couple of people's posts because I think they too just joined but when I click on their names, nothing comes up. One is wildcat06. Is there a way to read the posts? I forgot the other one but it is something 80 and they too just joined. I just wanted to read what some of the newest members are going through
Posted By: Brits_Brat Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/08/14 04:37 PM
235,

I've been on this board for twelve years and seen people come and go....some stay a long time, some just a few hours or days. Many ask the moderators to delete their posts when then leave. That is likely what happened with the posters to who you refer.

BB
Posted By: Missy80 Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/13/14 10:17 PM
Hi I think you were looking for me. I am new here but reading posts around the clock, trying to learn as much as I can. I am a business woman and I travel a lot. Too many things are nit adding up with my husband. I suspect there's someine else because we haven't been "together" in over five years. Oops I said too much!
Posted By: Nerlycrzy Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/13/14 11:52 PM
Missy,

Give us some hints here!! Something to go on. Why do you feel someone has been "looking for you." Why do you feel (if you do) it has something to do with this poster or thread?

Help us out!

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/14/14 12:32 AM
Originally Posted by Nerlycrzy
Missy,

Give us some hints here!! Something to go on. Why do you feel someone has been "looking for you." Why do you feel (if you do) it has something to do with this poster or thread?

Help us out!

She is referring to poster 235
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/14/14 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by Missy80
Hi I think you were looking for me. I am new here but reading posts around the clock, trying to learn as much as I can. I am a business woman and I travel a lot. Too many things are nit adding up with my husband. I suspect there's someine else because we haven't been "together" in over five years. Oops I said too much!

Surely she didn't mean you. She would not even know about you since you didn't post until today.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/20/14 05:02 AM
I have a 5k race my kids and I will participate in next month...and then a marathon in about 2 months..

Unfortunately I havent ran in about a month! The roads have been icy and frozen...so I hope I survive.

Its been a long long winter.

I am having the soil tested for my garden...
and very excited!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 03/14/14 03:16 AM
Does anyone listen to Gary Coxe?

I've listened to a few of his shows, and they are great 10 minute pick-me-ups.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 03/30/14 03:10 AM
Well, every time I have court hearings I always think about marriage and the affair.
It is at times emotionally draining, but I really cant complain because there are people much worse off...

I have a custody modification hearing next week and have had dreams of ex ww, plan A, etc...mostly about trying to win her back.

Thank God I discovered Marriage Builders and Dr. Harley's book, Surviving an Affair during that process...
Posted By: Justthe3ofus Re: Forgiveness Question - 03/30/14 05:48 PM
Sorry Jedi. You have done a good job of removing as many triggers as possible and recovering your life. But, alas, with children in the picture, there will always be some kind of connection.

Wish you the best with the court hearings. Thinking good thoughts for you, brother.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/06/14 09:28 PM
Well, I ran a half marathon today...donating blood tomorrow and court on Tuesday!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/09/14 03:32 AM
My court hearing was delayed...
I did not speak to or even look at ex ww in the court lobby.

lately, I have been praying for her salvation.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/09/14 04:18 AM
Jedi, that's a beautiful thing to pray for. I do that too.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/09/14 04:38 AM
I have thought a lot about this and if I was the Godly husband that I should have been, her affair would likely not have occurred.

So, in some regards, I do take some responsibility for her affair and subsequent downward spiral.
I know that she is responsible for her actions, but I am becoming increasingly of the opinion that all problems are a result of sin.

I have watched (or read) of how Justthe3ofus is working towards restoring his marriage; (his timeline is similar to mine);

I have also thought about the past, from the beginning of our relationship (very bizarre) to different times during the 10 year marriage.

I feel if I we would have followed the POJA, and met each others emotional needs we could of had a good marriage. The reason why I feel this way is because she consistently tried to do nice things for me during the 10 years (in our renter/ marriage relationship)

There is a kick: She does have a "electric fence personality" as Harley describes in his book BRF.

The affair started July 2011 and it's been more than 2 years since I discovered it and filed for divorce. My father says that there is too much water under the bridge to even consider having anything to do with her...

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/10/14 01:19 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I have thought a lot about this and if I was the Godly husband that I should have been, her affair would likely not have occurred.

So, in some regards, I do take some responsibility for her affair and subsequent downward spiral.
I know that she is responsible for her actions, but I am becoming increasingly of the opinion that all problems are a result of sin.

I have watched (or read) of how Justthe3ofus is working towards restoring his marriage; (his timeline is similar to mine);

I have also thought about the past, from the beginning of our relationship (very bizarre) to different times during the 10 year marriage.

I feel if I we would have followed the POJA, and met each others emotional needs we could of had a good marriage. The reason why I feel this way is because she consistently tried to do nice things for me during the 10 years (in our renter/ marriage relationship)

There is a kick: She does have a "electric fence personality" as Harley describes in his book BRF.

The affair started July 2011 and it's been more than 2 years since I discovered it and filed for divorce. My father says that there is too much water under the bridge to even consider having anything to do with her...


It is not your dad's decision.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/10/14 02:54 AM
Jedi, he just doesn't want to see you hurt, that's all. Don't worry about it, if she changes and it's real it'll be beyond obvious. My family adores my xh again.
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/10/14 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I have thought a lot about this and if I was the Godly husband that I should have been, her affair would likely not have occurred.

So, in some regards, I do take some responsibility for her affair and subsequent downward spiral.
I know that she is responsible for her actions, but I am becoming increasingly of the opinion that all problems are a result of sin.

I have watched (or read) of how Justthe3ofus is working towards restoring his marriage; (his timeline is similar to mine);

I have also thought about the past, from the beginning of our relationship (very bizarre) to different times during the 10 year marriage.

I feel if I we would have followed the POJA, and met each others emotional needs we could of had a good marriage. The reason why I feel this way is because she consistently tried to do nice things for me during the 10 years (in our renter/ marriage relationship)

There is a kick: She does have a "electric fence personality" as Harley describes in his book BRF.

The affair started July 2011 and it's been more than 2 years since I discovered it and filed for divorce. My father says that there is too much water under the bridge to even consider having anything to do with her...

Jedi, don't beat yourself up over this. Maybe, maybe not.

As my situation spiraled downhill, I consciously tried to behave in all the ways a Christian should. My reactions became analytical (what is the "higher road" response; what response would best hold the home together), and even with a fairly consistent pattern on my part, the spiral continued.

MB'ers have argued with me that I took it too far. I agree. I simply didn't know how to MB, but when i started setting boundaries per MB, the spiral destructed even faster.

It simply was not meant to be. Sometimes things are like that. I truly feel that being a "better Christian" in any additional stereotypical way would not have impacted my marriage a single bit. I would also argue that the MB methods are being a "better Christian" than simply continuing to disrespect yourself by turning the other cheek.

In my case, I feel this strongly validates the "unequally yoked" caution God issues, which is secularly described also under those 5 elements of compatibility I've seen referenced on this site also.

I have not felt such a peace and tranquility in my life for decades as I have felt after my H left.
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/10/14 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
I have not felt such a peace and tranquility in my life for decades as I have felt after my H left.

And just for emphasis, I lost my job in February. As an exceedingly conservative person financially, I can't believe I'm not pulling my hair out right now. Prior to my H leaving, I would literally lie awake at night and struggle not to moan/groan with worry, knowing the job loss was coming at the same time my H was leaving for another home he had purchased. I didn't know how I could pay my bills.

It is unreal that I feel so uplifted and happy right now, with not even a prospect for a job. A dear friend even remarked this morning about she has never seen my spirits so joyful.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/10/14 06:02 PM
hug I am so very happy for you!!!!!
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/11/14 12:23 AM
Thank you, Melody.

You were instrumental in helping me get a better perspective. I really appreciate the time you spend slamming your head into a brick wall on my behalf. I finally got it, and then accepted it and started enforcing boundaries.



Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/11/14 12:46 AM
It makes me so very sad that it took so long for you to get quality advice on this forum. What a crying shame that so much time was lost.

BUT...............better late than never. And thank God you took action. smile
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/11/14 01:16 AM
The advice back in the early 2000's when I was whistlewhileyouwork and when I came here in 2006 for my husband's anger problem is so much different than today.

Those older "hmmm....awww shucks" lines of advice didn't make any difference.

There is so much more purpose and clarity now. Many kudos and thanks to the MB veterans. You really made a huge difference in my life. The thankfulness that I feel almost brings me to tears.

(thank you Jedi for hosting our momentary thread jack. back to you.....)
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/11/14 02:00 AM
What a wonderful thing to say, sunny. Thanks for making my day!
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Forgiveness Question - 04/11/14 03:13 AM
:-)

I meant every word, Melody.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/12/14 05:12 AM
I ran 8 miles today, while the kids visited ww ex in visitation...and truly enjoyed the beauty of God's creation in Spring on the trail.

We went to the zoo last week and saw beautiful colorful birds.

It is truly amazing what a great artist our Creator is.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/17/14 02:38 PM
My kids and I ran a 5k and we all came home with awards!
Posted By: NevrStopLearning Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/17/14 02:48 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My kids and I ran a 5k and we all came home with awards!

Excellent, Jedi!
Bonding with your kids, encouraging a healthy lifestyle of exercise...again, they're fortunate to have a great dad. cool
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/17/14 03:10 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My kids and I ran a 5k and we all came home with awards!

Congrats!!
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/17/14 04:24 PM
Way to go! This is what it's all about, moving forward together.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/18/14 02:07 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
My kids and I ran a 5k and we all came home with awards!
hurray
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/19/14 02:25 PM
A friend of mine spent the night at the house, passing through town.
He is a deputy sheriff and works one month nights, one month days (3/12 shift followed by 4/12 shift weekly).

I discussed briefly Dr. Harley's methods.
His wife (2nd marriage) is expecting in August, so I was thinking of mailing him His Needs Her Needs for Parents.

Any thoughts on that?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/19/14 08:45 PM
Was he interested in MB? What about HNHN?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/19/14 09:59 PM
I explained the policy of UA time to him and he agreed it made sense.
he told me that he didnt want to mess up his second marriage.

I didnt discuss HNHN with him.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/19/14 10:17 PM
I struggle with giving people books but I'm always tempted. On the one hand it's nice on the other it's preachy when people aren't keen. I think if he's really a bit worried and was seeking advice then it is a very nice gift.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/20/14 01:48 AM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I struggle with giving people books but I'm always tempted. On the one hand it's nice on the other it's preachy when people aren't keen. I think if he's really a bit worried and was seeking advice then it is a very nice gift.

I agree. Most unsolicited advice is self-serving so I am also very hesitant to distribute literature.
Posted By: Prisca Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/20/14 01:55 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I struggle with giving people books but I'm always tempted. On the one hand it's nice on the other it's preachy when people aren't keen. I think if he's really a bit worried and was seeking advice then it is a very nice gift.

I agree. Most unsolicited advice is self-serving so I am also very hesitant to distribute literature.


When there is a special event such as a pregnancy/birth or a wedding we don't hesitate to give a marriage builders book. Gifts at these times are at the very least easily accepted without the "preachy" feeling that can occur at other times. Giving a book to new parents about parenting and marriage, or a book to newlyweds on marriages, is a great idea.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: Forgiveness Question - 05/20/14 02:03 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I struggle with giving people books but I'm always tempted. On the one hand it's nice on the other it's preachy when people aren't keen. I think if he's really a bit worried and was seeking advice then it is a very nice gift.

I agree. Most unsolicited advice is self-serving so I am also very hesitant to distribute literature.
If it's unsolicited advice then it's better not to send him anything.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 07/27/14 04:27 AM
Question: While doing laundry today, I found a pair of DD10 underwear with a maxi-pad on it.

I don't think she has started her period yet and I was surprised to find it.

I havent said anything to her...What would be the best way to approach this?

Posted By: TheRoad Re: Forgiveness Question - 07/27/14 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Question: While doing laundry today, I found a pair of DD10 underwear with a maxi-pad on it.

I don't think she has started her period yet and I was surprised to find it.

I havent said anything to her...What would be the best way to approach this?


Does she have a favorite aunt?
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 07/27/14 02:14 PM
Some kids are starting as young as 9 nowadays, so it would be great to have a short talk with her, that as her body is changing she may need pads. I gave my DD13 another package of pads to bring to her father's house, but it's a simple thing to find the kids' ones at the grocery store, and then tell her where to find it under the bathroom sink. At those ages one package can last a year, but let her know to tell you when she runs low. And because laundry day is not when you want to find this stuff blush let her know to wrap it really well with toilet paper and put it in the bathroom garbage.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 07/27/14 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Question: While doing laundry today, I found a pair of DD10 underwear with a maxi-pad on it.

I don't think she has started her period yet and I was surprised to find it.

I havent said anything to her...What would be the best way to approach this?


Does she have a favorite aunt?

No, she is not close with any relatives. I was hoping SIL would try to be close to her but she really hasn't
Posted By: reading Re: Forgiveness Question - 07/27/14 07:32 PM
I would just ask her
"DD, have you started menstruating yet?"

If she seems embarassed or not, let her know you found a maxi pad and were curious about it. Tell her you are there for her as she is growing up.

Open communication should pertain to this, as other things in life.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 08/01/14 03:46 AM
Originally Posted by reading
I would just ask her
"DD, have you started menstruating yet?"

If she seems embarassed or not, let her know you found a maxi pad and were curious about it. Tell her you are there for her as she is growing up.

Open communication should pertain to this, as other things in life.


I spoke with her tonight.
She told me that she has not started her period and did not use the pad.
She said DD7 used the pad; she said that while they were last at ww apartment for overnight weekend, ww did not have any underwear for DD7 to wear and gave her a pad and had her use that on the underwear she wore there...

DD10 did tell me that she has started to grow breasts
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 08/01/14 11:04 AM
Whew, crisis averted!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 08/03/14 04:47 PM
I ran a 5k last weekend and was 5th place, and ran a 15k last night and was 3rd place in my age group (30-39 male)!

Posted By: reading Re: Forgiveness Question - 08/03/14 08:50 PM
Awesome!
Posted By: rocksolid Re: Forgiveness Question - 08/05/14 06:05 AM
Great news on the run. When is your next one?

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 08/05/14 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Great news on the run. When is your next one?

In a couple weeks, when my kids are next with their mom for the weekend.
I plan on running a 5k race Friday evening, and another 5k race Saturday morning
Posted By: rocksolid Re: Forgiveness Question - 08/05/14 08:42 PM
Wow that is amazing!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/02/14 02:28 AM
I have a question about internet safety for children.
My ex wife created a Google Plus page for our 3 children and has posted dozens of pictures of events that they participate in.

I don't like their pictures online because strangers don't need to see them. I mail pictures to relatives and friends.

Any thoughts on this?
Posted By: markos Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/02/14 02:40 AM
Most people I know restrict how much of their children are posted on the internet to some extent. Unfortunately in a divorced situation there's not a lot of control over what the ex-spouse does. frown
Posted By: cyllanlisa Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/02/14 04:50 PM
Do they have the passwords? Would they be able to go into it to restrict the world from seeing these pictures to just friends and family?
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/02/14 08:55 PM
Jedi, that would be tough to address with no contact. Do you have anyone that serves in an IM type role that could reason through this with her, like maybe your parents or something? I'm not in NC, but my mom is really great about talking though concerns about her grandbabies with my ex. He is much more open to her input than he is to mine.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/03/14 01:58 AM
Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
Jedi, that would be tough to address with no contact. Do you have anyone that serves in an IM type role that could reason through this with her, like maybe your parents or something? I'm not in NC, but my mom is really great about talking though concerns about her grandbabies with my ex. He is much more open to her input than he is to mine.

I don't think she is receptive to reason; she lives in the fog
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/03/14 03:07 AM
So what do you have in mind?
Posted By: markos Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/03/14 04:36 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
Jedi, that would be tough to address with no contact. Do you have anyone that serves in an IM type role that could reason through this with her, like maybe your parents or something? I'm not in NC, but my mom is really great about talking though concerns about her grandbabies with my ex. He is much more open to her input than he is to mine.

I don't think she is receptive to reason; she lives in the fog

I fear you are pretty much at the mercy of the legal system - I don't see any hope of persuading her of anything or negotiating with her.

That said, and having been a kid stuck at the mercy of the legal system myself years ago, I do believe God works things together for good, and I will keep your children in my prayers, Jedi.
Posted By: 1995droptopz Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/03/14 12:49 PM
The age requirement for Google accounts is 13 years old, so if it is in your children's name you can report it as a violation of Google standards. If her name is on it there is not much you can do
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/04/14 02:26 AM
Originally Posted by 1995droptopz
The age requirement for Google accounts is 13 years old, so if it is in your children's name you can report it as a violation of Google standards. If her name is on it there is not much you can do

I will send a letter to Google with a copy of my court order and documentation that my kids are minors.
At this point, it appears to be all that I can do.
This isn't a major issue of concern for me, but it is important.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/09/14 01:12 AM
Last weekend, I found out that DS11 has been lying to me about doing his homework.
None of it has been done.
I confronted him and he admitted to lying.

Today, he said he felt too sick to go to school.
So, he stayed home while I was at work and was told to finish his homework.
He said he worked on it all day, yet I checked the computer history and he spent the whole day on Youtube.

More troubling is what he watched on youtube, videos with titles such as:
nood 10 year old
nood girls
boobys

Now, as for school, I am meeting with the principal tomorrow morning to tell her what I am doing and asking for any suggestions, making sure we are on the same team.

As for the internet, I am removing the laptop from the living room.

Any suggestions or thoughts?
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/09/14 11:32 AM
Jedi, I know that stuff is disturbing but it is normal for kids to be curious. Maybe you can put some parental controls on the computer, so they can still play games and stuff?
Posted By: 1995droptopz Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/09/14 11:46 AM
I make my DD9 do her homework as soon as she gets home from school, and she cannot do anything else besides eat dinner until I have seen it and it is correct. I am assuming that he needs his computer for the homework? If not I would take it away until homework is complete. Make that the incentive for doing the right thing.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/09/14 03:08 PM
Have you had the "talk" with DS11?

I would hazard that it's pretty normal...they just now have the technology that we lacked at that age.

Our nine year old was doing similar searches via an ipod--with the same (mis)spellings actually--so we talked to him about it and removed the internet function from it. He is allowed to use a laptop when we are around. No internet in his room, for instance.

But you might have the talk to him about sex and internet pornography if you haven't done so already.


Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/09/14 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by 1995droptopz
I make my DD9 do her homework as soon as she gets home from school, and she cannot do anything else besides eat dinner until I have seen it and it is correct.

That's what we do as well. It keeps them on a schedule and gets the homework done and out of the way as soon as possible.
Posted By: markos Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/09/14 08:24 PM
In additional to parental controls, you might consider completely turning off internet access when your children are home alone.

It won't be too many years, though, till they can get their own phones and access the internet that way. So there's got to be more than that.

Recognize that it won't be long until you can't stop your son from viewing what he chooses to view, and talk to him frequently about what principles you believe he should use to make those decisions.

Nude pictures of minors are illegal pretty much everywhere and can get YOU in an insane amount of trouble if your equipment is being used to view it. Make sure he knows this. Monitor what the internet access you pay for is used for, and let him know when you are aware he is accessing material you don't approve of. Cut it off technologically as much as possible, but recognize that at his age if he puts his mind to it, he can probably stay one step ahead of you technologically.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/09/14 09:38 PM
I did look at the youtube he viewed and none of it was nudity.
But he clearly searched for it on youtube.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/17/14 02:07 AM
Okay, I took my girls to a girl scout meeting and he was a lone for an hour...supposedly doing homework.
well, no homework was done. he lied and said he did it, then lost it.
I looked at the internet browsing history and it was all youtube videos.
Fortunately, youtube does a good job of policing their videos.
Most of the time was spent watching minecraft videos, the rest was "boob girl" etc videos.
So, I confronted him about the missing homework and he got mad and said "Fine, never trust me then!"
I then asked him to come to the computer and I said, this is a list of all the computer time and videos watched while we were gone and I pointed to them all. I then said, 'You were on the computer the whole time and lied to me about the homework."

His demeanor quickly changed at that moment.
I didn't discuss the youtube videos, but pointed at them.
I will tell him tomorrow: "If you have questions about sex please ask me and do not try to find the answers on the computer or youtube." I didn't do it tonight...instead I said "Stop lying to me."

For what its worth, I have done sex ed with all of my kids.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/17/14 03:05 AM
Jedi, I understand why you said that, but if you had questions at 10, would you ask your parents? Or try to find the answer on your own?

I know there are things you can do to protect your kids. And it's great you are doing them. But as a mom with one out of the house, let me tell you they find ways around it. And you know my daughter chose to move in with her Dad at 18 until she went away to school. They resented my logging and monitoring and all that. Not saying it was a good answer or not for these kids. But just saying there is a lot to weigh there, short and long term. And what is the right answer at 10 may change as he gets older.
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Forgiveness Question - 09/17/14 03:48 AM
My suggestion would be this: when your children have homework or chores that must be accomplished and you know already that the computer is a temptation, why not password protect the computer and simply remove the temptation?

Even if your son was not trying to view objectionable videos, but just doing harmless little things on the computer, he'll have one less temptation to deal with when he's on his own.

If he has homework that has to be done on the computer, it can be done while you're near.

We didn't have to deal with this when my daughter was young, but that's how we plan to handle computer use when our grandkids visit.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 10/01/14 11:45 AM
Originally Posted by Northwood8900
Have you had the "talk" with DS11?

I would hazard that it's pretty normal...they just now have the technology that we lacked at that age.

Our nine year old was doing similar searches via an ipod--with the same (mis)spellings actually--so we talked to him about it and removed the internet function from it. He is allowed to use a laptop when we are around. No internet in his room, for instance.

But you might have the talk to him about sex and internet pornography if you haven't done so already.

Yes, I have taught basic sex ed to all of my kids.
I used Christian resources for the books; "Sex: What's It All About?" and "All About You", and "Before I Was Born"

I did install a parental internet control called K9.

In the meantime, DS is very upset that he doesn't have an Iphone or IPAD! He thinks he is seriously deprived and complains constantly of not having a smartphone or television (in his room).

Posted By: cyllanlisa Re: Forgiveness Question - 10/01/14 03:11 PM
My kids have dumb phones (with texting - they are 14 and 16 now). Both of them saved money to buy their own ipods - for music and some apps. Most of their friends have a smartphone of some kind, but mine get along just fine with what they have. Neither have tv's in their room either - and won't.
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Forgiveness Question - 10/01/14 04:17 PM
Jedi,

Eblaster allows you to block specific sites on computers. When I caught DS14 being curious a year ago, I blocked google on his account (he was going to google images). You can block youtube and let him "earn it" back.

Secondly, it's great you are catching early that his curiosity to the gateway drug to porn (nude images) is interfering with his responsibilities. That is a first symptom of addictive behavior, so great you are on top of it.

Thirdly, your modem should be able to restrict activities on the wireless between certain hours. This could allow you to limit the amount of time which internet is available. I am considering doing that for DS14,DD15 and DD16. I don't know how easy it is to do the settings on a quick one-off basis, i.e. when he is supposed to be doing homework, but it is very easy to block/unblock sites in eblaster (not quite the same but might be a quasi-ok workaround). Not sure if eblaster allows entire internet block or not.

I strongly recommend teensafe for kids' phones, but you have to disallow them to use the social apps that are not monitored by teensafe or else you miss everything. Eblaster only monitors text and saved pictures on phones, so not as useful, but teensafe doesn't monitor saved pictures. I had a daughter getting into risky behaviors so her phone has both of those apps monitoring it.

I think smart phones are way better than dumb phones if you want to monitor their activity. You just need to not allow kik and snapchat on them; limit them to texts, instagram and FB (all of which teensafe monitors).

edited to add: Am also a huge fan of location apps, such as findmyphone or life 360 for kids' phones. It really is great to know they are where they are safe & supposed to be. If they are running late, it's great to not worry they are in an accident because you can see the car advancing down the road towards home.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Forgiveness Question - 10/02/14 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
In the meantime, DS is very upset that he doesn't have an Iphone or IPAD! He thinks he is seriously deprived and complains constantly of not having a smartphone or television (in his room).

You can turn off the Safari on an ipod so that they cannot even open it and the icon is turned off, leaving the rest intact.

That is what we did with our oldest.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 11/08/14 05:45 PM
Well, I decided to take the time I have to enroll in college full time.
I am working part time and that pays the basic bills.
The college is actually more than full time...I'm taking a semesters worth of credits in half a semester time and I have been WORN OUT!

But...I've also been very happy. I very much enjoy the challenges of being overworked.

I've also been busy building raised garden beds for next spring, using free mulch, wood chips and chopped leaves from the county.

My biggest daily challenge is keeping up on the housekeeping between school, work, cooking dinner etc.

I asked a couple women for phone numbers last week but got turned down. I'll keep asking though.
Posted By: rocksolid Re: Forgiveness Question - 11/09/14 11:00 AM
Would you consider online dating?

You would have a lot of interests and info like your college and gardening to put on your profile!

What course are you studying?



Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 11/09/14 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Would you consider online dating?

You would have a lot of interests and info like your college and gardening to put on your profile!

What course are you studying?

I have had NO success with online dating websites pof and okcupid.
I closed the okcupid account and only check the pof website weekly.
Also, I had a professional write my dating profile and select the pictures. She also wrote some of my emails to women on the site.

My sister thinks I should just meet women in person, like at college or at social functions. I'm not going to go hunt them down.

I'm lonely at times but really becoming accustomed to be being single and enjoying what limited freedoms I have as a single man. Obviously I don't have the freedoms that Cary Grant did in Arsenic and Old Lace but I am just really enjoying life right now.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 11/09/14 05:15 PM
Oh, I am currently taking US History, English and Algebra.
The algebra is the most challenging.
The English is challenging but I am getting an A.
History is another matter: The Professor is communist and asks us to write essays about "Should the US have done ABC?" at different points in history.
My first report was a B. I presented America as a great nation.
After that, I started referencing Marx and Henry George in my reports (and portraying America as an evil capitalist country) and have been receiving high praises and 100% on every paper!
Posted By: rocksolid Re: Forgiveness Question - 11/10/14 02:55 AM
Wow good jobs on your 100 percent marks. That would be a great confidence boost for you.

Probably cliche, but someone will probably come along when you least expect and not looking. Does the college hold many social events?



Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Forgiveness Question - 11/10/14 03:35 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Would you consider online dating?

You would have a lot of interests and info like your college and gardening to put on your profile!

What course are you studying?

I have had NO success with online dating websites pof and okcupid.
I closed the okcupid account and only check the pof website weekly.
Also, I had a professional write my dating profile and select the pictures. She also wrote some of my emails to women on the site.

My sister thinks I should just meet women in person, like at college or at social functions. I'm not going to go hunt them down.

I'm lonely at times but really becoming accustomed to be being single and enjoying what limited freedoms I have as a single man. Obviously I don't have the freedoms that Cary Grant did in Arsenic and Old Lace but I am just really enjoying life right now.

Are you in a position where you can meet with women and be friends with them for a good while just doing fun things? I know you are probably very busy with your children, your job and school, so making a bit of time here and there for fun things like a bicycle or hiking (or some other activity) group and singles opportunities at church is going to be challenging, but that's where I'd start.

If you go into this simply seeking out friendships, rather than a romantic interest, it may make your life less stressful and possibly more fun.

At a local university close to us, a group hosts weekly dance lessons followed by a dance party every single Friday, and for only $2 per person. they sell bottled water and cups of popcorn, so it's pretty tame. There are lots of single women and men as well as married people who show up every week. It's totally open and fun. If you can dance or want to learn, something like that would be a great place to meet women.

Also, if you have a botanical garden nearby, you might be able to volunteer there or learn master gardening and/or work in the produce garden.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 11/10/14 05:42 AM
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Wow good jobs on your 100 percent marks. That would be a great confidence boost for you.

Actually, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that I have to resort to this to get a decent grade
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 11/10/14 05:43 AM
Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Would you consider online dating?

You would have a lot of interests and info like your college and gardening to put on your profile!

What course are you studying?

I have had NO success with online dating websites pof and okcupid.
I closed the okcupid account and only check the pof website weekly.
Also, I had a professional write my dating profile and select the pictures. She also wrote some of my emails to women on the site.

My sister thinks I should just meet women in person, like at college or at social functions. I'm not going to go hunt them down.

I'm lonely at times but really becoming accustomed to be being single and enjoying what limited freedoms I have as a single man. Obviously I don't have the freedoms that Cary Grant did in Arsenic and Old Lace but I am just really enjoying life right now.

Are you in a position where you can meet with women and be friends with them for a good while just doing fun things? I know you are probably very busy with your children, your job and school, so making a bit of time here and there for fun things like a bicycle or hiking (or some other activity) group and singles opportunities at church is going to be challenging, but that's where I'd start.

If you go into this simply seeking out friendships, rather than a romantic interest, it may make your life less stressful and possibly more fun.

At a local university close to us, a group hosts weekly dance lessons followed by a dance party every single Friday, and for only $2 per person. they sell bottled water and cups of popcorn, so it's pretty tame. There are lots of single women and men as well as married people who show up every week. It's totally open and fun. If you can dance or want to learn, something like that would be a great place to meet women.

Also, if you have a botanical garden nearby, you might be able to volunteer there or learn master gardening and/or work in the produce garden.


Those are all great ideas but I have no extra time and meeting women is not a priority for me at this point.
I will continue to ask women for phone numbers but I'm really not interested in female friends or volunterring.
I already volunteer at church and I dont have any extra time
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/05/14 03:19 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Would you consider online dating?

You would have a lot of interests and info like your college and gardening to put on your profile!

What course are you studying?

I have had NO success with online dating websites pof and okcupid.
I closed the okcupid account and only check the pof website weekly.
Also, I had a professional write my dating profile and select the pictures. She also wrote some of my emails to women on the site.

My sister thinks I should just meet women in person, like at college or at social functions. I'm not going to go hunt them down.

I'm lonely at times but really becoming accustomed to be being single and enjoying what limited freedoms I have as a single man. Obviously I don't have the freedoms that Cary Grant did in Arsenic and Old Lace but I am just really enjoying life right now.

Are those the only sites you've tried? I have some relatives who have met their spouses on eHarmony and had good results. I've never done online dating myself but it seems like a no brainer with regards to getting a large pool of candidates.

That being said, I know the culture around some sites is more "hook-up" than "long term relationship".
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/05/14 03:26 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
History is another matter: The Professor is communist and asks us to write essays about "Should the US have done ABC?" at different points in history.
My first report was a B. I presented America as a great nation.
After that, I started referencing Marx and Henry George in my reports (and portraying America as an evil capitalist country) and have been receiving high praises and 100% on every paper!

I loathed History courses in college for basically the same reason, and I'm a history buff. Wait till world history and discussions on the origin of the Bible/Church. Doesn't get any better. grumble
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/05/14 03:41 AM
No, I haven't tried sites like eHarmoney because they charge fees.

I understand Harley is a proponent of online dating. I also understand that Harley did experiments as a college Professor to prove that attraction is unique and not always broad.

In the novel the Fountainhead, the hero of the book, Howard Roarke, was in love with a woman named Dominique Franco and waited for her. He did not seek her out. He knew that she would eventually seek him.

The author, Ayn Rand wrote that romance was mutual attraction to shared values and that like a magnet, persons of shared values would find each other. They had to, she reasoned, just as magnets in nature draw close to one another as a form of natural law.

At this point, I am busy with full time college, a small business (for income), raising 3 kids (and all the stuff that goes with that) and keeping house as a single parent. I've decided that I don't have time for online dating and rarely check my online profile.

I've given this up to the Lord. My grandmother, also told me to just wait on the Lord's timing and that is what I am doing. The argument can be made that perhaps I lack proper communication skills or am poor looking in appearance to attract a mate with online dating. Truthfully, I don't know why I've been unsuccessful with it and at this point it is no longer a priority for me.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/05/14 04:00 AM
Jedi, I didn't do so well with PoF and OkCupid either, too many folks looking to hook up. But I really liked the folks I talked to on Christian Mingle, and I met my boyfriend there, they were going somewhere with their lives if you know what I mean. But at the same time I totally understand that working and raising kids doesn't leave much time for dating!

My guess as to why you haven't found someone yet is that you are very high energy and not everyone can keep up with that. But that's okay you're not looking for everyone wink It sounds like you're doing the right things to be where a good woman will find you smile Do you take the kids to church?
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/05/14 04:16 AM
Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
Do you take the kids to church?

Yes! We were attending every Sunday and Wed evening but my ex wife recently obtained part custody so they are now with her Wed evenings and every other weekend.
The weekends they are with me, we go. My daughters have good relationships with their Sunday School teachers. My son doesn't enjoy it so much but It's not optional for him.

Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/07/14 04:54 PM
How about finding a good woman at church?
Posted By: nmwb77 Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/07/14 08:46 PM
Is your ex working on becoming a better person?
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/07/14 09:47 PM
JK,

You recently commented that your Ex-W is finally taking visitation with your children.

How did that come about and how are your kids proccssing it after she left and now returned for limited contact?

Is it a Court Ordered visitation, or something she and you discussed and agreed with?

LTL
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/08/14 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
JK,

You recently commented that your Ex-W is finally taking visitation with your children.

How did that come about and how are your kids proccssing it after she left and now returned for limited contact?

Is it a Court Ordered visitation, or something she and you discussed and agreed with?

LTL

Yes, it is court ordered visitation.
The kids handle it alright. They are often upset when they return though so I followed my moms advice and just started playing a movie when they return to settle down.
She sees them Wed evenings and every other weekend.

Ironically, she actually tells the kids she left them because I was neglectful, abusive and cheating on her!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/08/14 06:54 PM
Oh, it has caused problems with church too.
She has become an atheist and argues with the kids about their faith.
My DS12 is increasingly hostile to attending our church. She also told the kids that our church "hates her" and that I "...told them about all of our problems [her adultery]..."
There is another church we visit at times (I have a business relationship with them and the Pastors daughters attend our school) and ex ww told the kids that that church has people "spying on her."

Last night, as often happens Sunday evenings after I pick them up, DD8 was crying and afraid to go to sleep at bedtime. She said mommy scared her and she doesn't want to talk about it. (I later learned from DS that ww was telling her stories of how she (ww) has communicated with ghosts in the past and had in depth conversations with one ghost).

I've told the kids that the ghost experiences were either demonic or imagined and that when we trust in the Lord we don't need to worry about that. I've also told them to make the sign of the Cross if they wake up scared etc.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/08/14 06:56 PM
Originally Posted by nmwb77
Is your ex working on becoming a better person?

I don't know what she is doing. I have not spoken with her since divorce date and only see her at child exchanges and do not communicate with her at these exchanges.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/08/14 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
How about finding a good woman at church?

Well, most of the younger people at my church are married.
I'm active and present, I bring the snacks to Wed night Bible Study and usually help with serving Communion, etc. but the majority of my church is age 50 and older.

However, they do have a great childrens program with about 100-150 children attending.

Posted By: nmwb77 Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/08/14 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I don't know what she is doing. I have not spoken with her since divorce date and only see her at child exchanges and do not communicate with her at these exchanges.

Well, from what you described about her interactions with your children, I would say she hasn't learned anything. I'm sorry to hear about that. It's so sad. God bless you. I'm glad that you do not let it get you down. Hopefully someday she will repent and become a better mother.
Posted By: PigletWiglet Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/08/14 08:28 PM
Wow,

That sounds nutty. What cognitive dissonance people experience when they do the wrong thing. I am glad that your kids have at least one parent to keep them grounded. I experienced the same thing with my mom, although all she did was demonize my dad to the high heavens to justify her affair.

Now that I am an adult I understand that my dad is a flawed man (he has a temper that really hurt my mom) but my mom remains off the deep end in the justification of her behavior. She maintains that she was a "young girl" when she started her affair (she was 33) and that she "needed" it. She has been in volatile affairage since my parents divorced (she got remarried just months after the divorce was final) and her husband is an alcoholic, they are animal hoarders and their house was recently forclosed on. Sigh.

Posted By: indiegirl Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/11/14 05:56 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Wow good jobs on your 100 percent marks. That would be a great confidence boost for you.

Actually, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that I have to resort to this to get a decent grade


It's quite difficult to convincingly present an argument that we don't personally believe. You deserve that grade.

I don't ask my pupils to conform to a set belief (which would gall me too) but I do make them write against their own standpoints occasionally to improve and prove their skill and technique.

Do you think any of the older people at church would set you up on dates or would that be inviting a world of trouble?!


Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/11/14 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Wow good jobs on your 100 percent marks. That would be a great confidence boost for you.

Actually, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that I have to resort to this to get a decent grade


It's quite difficult to convincingly present an argument that we don't personally believe. You deserve that grade.

I don't ask my pupils to conform to a set belief (which would gall me too) but I do make them write against their own standpoints occasionally to improve and prove their skill and technique.

Do you think any of the older people at church would set you up on dates or would that be inviting a world of trouble?!

I changed my policy on the reports.
LOL. You mean blind dates? I don't think I would like that idea.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/11/14 08:05 PM
My dad's advice on blind dates was to meet somewhere with a back door!

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/12/14 04:07 AM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
My dad's advice on blind dates was to meet somewhere with a back door!

This is something I will consider.
There are lots of retirees in church. I could tell them I want to start dating and ask if they know any young women.
Posted By: reading Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/12/14 06:19 AM
And don't go out with women with the idea to find a steady gf.
Go out to have fun and to mingle in life.
If you find someone you like romantically and they also like you.......extra points for the date.
Posted By: Sunnytimes Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/12/14 08:03 PM
Well, Jedi I was very pleased with the caliber of people on ChristianMingle. They allowed preference settings to narrow the pool to likely matches based on the practice of your faith. I found the choices to be of pretty high quality, and as you have noticed, one choice in particular is standing out at the moment!

I was on it for less than a day after my picture posted before several seemingly sincere Christian men reached out. While I didn't peruse the females in any depth (other than a quick glance to estimate my competition, lol), hopefully they are of similar depth as the men.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/18/14 12:21 AM
well, I bought a keyboard and my mom mailed a Christmas gift Guitar.
My girls start piano lessons and boy starts guitar lessons in January!
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 12/18/14 03:38 PM
Jedi that sounds so awesome, you all are going to love it! YD and I will be starting singing lessons, we're so excited too smile
Posted By: Pius Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/03/15 04:30 PM
Jedi - I've been reading in your thread and have read other posts you've made and I'm just curious about a few things, if you don't mind.
1.) What denomination of Christian are you? Are you Catholic?

2.) How long ago was your divorce?

Posted By: Pius Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/03/15 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by Pius
Jedi - I've been reading in your thread and have read other posts you've made and I'm just curious about a few things, if you don't mind.
1.) What denomination of Christian are you? Are you Catholic?

2.) How long ago was your divorce?

OK so I see from the beginning of your thread that the divorce was in July 2012 smile
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/04/15 09:21 PM
I am a Protestant Christian. I do not belong to a major denomination.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/08/15 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
I was very pleased with the caliber of people on ChristianMingle.
A (seemingly) sweet cute guy that I was supposed to go on a date on had a profile on Christian Mingle...and a nasty sex site. Take that for whatever it's worth.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/08/15 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
I was very pleased with the caliber of people on ChristianMingle.
A (seemingly) sweet cute guy that I was supposed to go on a date on had a profile on Christian Mingle...and a nasty sex site. Take that for whatever it's worth.

Well he is just trying to market himself to all types of women!
Posted By: black_raven Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/08/15 03:58 PM
My bf's ex was on CM. She lied about several things on her profile but posted that she was looking for an honest man LOL

Take that for what it's worth.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/09/15 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
I was very pleased with the caliber of people on ChristianMingle.
A (seemingly) sweet cute guy that I was supposed to go on a date on had a profile on Christian Mingle...and a nasty sex site. Take that for whatever it's worth.

Well he is just trying to market himself to all types of women!

rotflmao
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/10/15 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Sunnytimes
I was very pleased with the caliber of people on ChristianMingle.
A (seemingly) sweet cute guy that I was supposed to go on a date on had a profile on Christian Mingle...and a nasty sex site. Take that for whatever it's worth.

Well he is just trying to market himself to all types of women!

rotflmao

An equal opportunity deceiver! laugh
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/12/15 05:46 AM
I took my kids to see The Wizard of Oz in theatre today.
It was expensive..$50 for tickets and popcorn.
But it's great to see in the theatre!
They enjoyed it immensely.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/12/15 01:58 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I took my kids to see The Wizard of Oz in theatre today.
It was expensive..$50 for tickets and popcorn.
But it's great to see in the theatre!
They enjoyed it immensely.

$50!

Did you tell the ticket lady that you just wanted to see the movie, not buy it?

Back in 1939 $50 you could of bought the whole studio.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/13/15 04:17 AM
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I took my kids to see The Wizard of Oz in theatre today.
It was expensive..$50 for tickets and popcorn.
But it's great to see in the theatre!
They enjoyed it immensely.

$50!

Did you tell the ticket lady that you just wanted to see the movie, not buy it?

Back in 1939 $50 you could of bought the whole studio.

Yes, I know.
Posted By: rocksolid Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/14/15 09:39 AM
Prices are ridiculous in Australia too. I don't get out of it for less than 50 dollars either and that's with only one child. Usually I buy cheap snacks at the supermarket and stash them in my bag it's a little cheaper.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/14/15 12:32 PM
I just wanted them to see such a classic in full cinema.
It really is different than watching it on DVD.
I read the Oz books to them at night, currently reading Rinkitink of Oz.
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/14/15 01:40 PM
I tak err my son about once a month to a late Sunday afternoon Matinee movie at a thriftier movie theater. Along with 1 popcorn and 1 soda pop, which each get free refills and it costs $20.00 total for the two of us.

Check out other basic theaters in the area.

LTL
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/20/15 06:55 PM
Well, I'm really excited about this new year! I just filled out the Calendar for the next 3 months and the kids and I are busy every day!
My 12 year old boy is in boy scouts, 10 and 8 year old daughters are in girl scouts and they all start music lessons this week.
The weekends they have with me will be in Church on Sundays and events at National Parks on Saturdays. Roller skating twice a month...
and I have a couple small races and a larger one coming up.

It's so nice to fill out that calendar and not be troubled with ex wife drama. I enjoy watching the Gary Coxe videos on Youtube and he encourages people to not allow others to "rent space in your head."
If it wasn't for Plan B, I don't think I would be as happy as I am now.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/20/15 10:25 PM
That's so awesome Jedi, I love seeing your life continue to get better and better smile Maybe I'll get somewhere with that contagious enthusiasm smile
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: Forgiveness Question - 01/20/15 11:36 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well, I'm really excited about this new year! I just filled out the Calendar for the next 3 months and the kids and I are busy every day!
My 12 year old boy is in boy scouts, 10 and 8 year old daughters are in girl scouts and they all start music lessons this week.
The weekends they have with me will be in Church on Sundays and events at National Parks on Saturdays. Roller skating twice a month...
and I have a couple small races and a larger one coming up.

It's so nice to fill out that calendar and not be troubled with ex wife drama. I enjoy watching the Gary Coxe videos on Youtube and he encourages people to not allow others to "rent space in your head."
If it wasn't for Plan B, I don't think I would be as happy as I am now.

I only have one child and he will be turning 12 in about 3 weeks and I strongly advocate for the Scouting activities.

This past weekend, we went camping with his Scout Troop and spent the weekend camping inside of a cave and the kids did all sorts of exploring, crawling through cave crevices and discovering hidden rooms.

It keeps us busy and usually not too bad on the budget, with this current expedition being one of the higher priced exceptions.

If you ever sense any self esteem issues, I also would highly recommend signing up for a form of Martial Arts. We are nearing his 3rd anniversary of 2-3 times per week practice sessions and twice per year tournaments for Sparring and Forms competitions. He is extremely proud of any trophy he has earned, which are for 1st through 3rd place.

Do you have your kids enrolled in any extracurricular school activities? My son enjoys Choir and Orchestra and really likes a variety of music due to the additional exposure to our classic genre along with true classical compositions.

As long as he continues this path, it is rare that I have to seek out any further options and along with Church and Catechism Class, I think he is being emotionally and Spiritually fulfilled.

You are definitely doing a great job and have your hands full with one boy and two younger sisters. Congratulations!!!

LTL
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/02/15 03:00 AM
Well I missed the Super bowl because my ex wife didn't return the kids on time and made me drive nearly 4 hours for no reason...
I wanted to watch it with my kids and she ruined that.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/02/15 03:44 AM
How awful! How did that happen?
Posted By: rocksolid Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/02/15 09:24 AM
I bet the kids were disappointed too.
Posted By: BlairBluefin Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/02/15 10:48 AM
Wow, I'm sorry your Ex is like that.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/02/15 09:22 PM
It happened because she lives 1.5 hours away and I drove out there to pick them up in the appointed location, waited 30 minutes then left.
When I arrived home, my daughter called me and said that I could pick them up in town. She said ex ww "forgot" about the time and location.

This is regular behavior from her. There is no consistency at all.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: Forgiveness Question - 02/02/15 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
There is no consistency at all.

Then I would consistently report her missed drop-offs to the authorities at the time that they happen.

Doing otherwise may make it look as though the behavior is acceptable to you.
Posted By: rocksolid Re: Forgiveness Question - 03/18/15 09:55 AM
Haven't seen you online for ages Jedi. How are all the activities with your girls going?

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: Forgiveness Question - 03/20/15 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Haven't seen you online for ages Jedi. How are all the activities with your girls going?

They are going well.
I've been very busy with work, parenting and college.
And now gardening. The girls and I planted tomatoes and peppers and are happy to see those growing now.
They have been busy in Girl Scouts, playing outside as the weather warms, and piano lessons.
We will not go on a vacation like we did last year (to Disneyland) but will instead do a lot of camping and fishing this summer at various state and federal parks.

Posted By: rocksolid Re: Forgiveness Question - 03/22/15 09:24 AM
It's very satisfying growing your own fruit and vegetables and eating what you've grown!

I think camping are the best holidays you can do with your kids. You can create so many happy memories and so great being in the outdoors.

I'm so happy your life is so fulfilling and busy.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/15/15 03:15 AM
Well I've been swamped with work; college; parenting...growing a garden and life.
I have spinach starting to grow in the garden (about 20 square feet).
I also planted a half dozen lavender plants the other day and turned a piece of hard driveway/ compacted clay into a raised lavender bed. (Raised with mulch). I will try to get some pics posted for anyone interested.

I ran a half marathon race Sunday and was a little sore, I have a large blister o my foot...and my time was 10 minutes too long...

But otherwise everything is well. Kids are doing well in Scouting and music lessons.
Posted By: rocksolid Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/19/15 09:14 AM
Would love to see the garden pics Jedi.

Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/29/15 05:32 PM
I have been committing disrespectful judgements and am a little disappointed in myself.
However, I feel that when I ask him to stop doing something that offends me and he keeps doing it...then he deserves to be treated disrespectfully.
Is that a bad attitude to have?

I recently planted several garden beds and need help controlling any rodents that may try to move into the beds. In my opinion, that is what a cat should do. But he has no interest in that. Instead, he wants to be in the house all day long. I lose patience with him when I see him laying around sometimes and call him names and tell him he is a welfare bum that refuses to work. I've told him the purpose of his life is to catch mice but he acts as though my purpose in life is to serve him.

I feel he's love busting me and making me have disrespectful judgements towards him. What do you think I should do?
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/29/15 06:09 PM
Personally, I think some things just cry out for disrespectful judgements ....
Posted By: living_well Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/29/15 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I lose patience with him when I see him laying around sometimes and call him names and tell him he is a welfare bum that refuses to work. I've told him the purpose of his life is to catch mice but he acts as though my purpose in life is to serve him.


I think you are being far too soft with him. Time to show him your sword that glows in the dark.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/29/15 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
Personally, I think some things just cry out for disrespectful judgements ....

And I am sure they are working so well here! laugh
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/29/15 06:41 PM
I've dealt with this type before. They are so selfish that no amount of respectful persuasion will get you anywhere. Best to nuke 'em.
Posted By: markos Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/29/15 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
I've dealt with this type before. They are so selfish that no amount of respectful persuasion will get you anywhere. Best to nuke 'em.

I'm not sure you can nuke them. I think that's just an urban legend.

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/microwavedpet.asp
Posted By: Prisca Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/29/15 06:45 PM
I was referring to Disrespectful Judgements sigh
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/30/15 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I have been committing disrespectful judgements and am a little disappointed in myself.
However, I feel that when I ask him to stop doing something that offends me and he keeps doing it...then he deserves to be treated disrespectfully.
Is that a bad attitude to have?

I recently planted several garden beds and need help controlling any rodents that may try to move into the beds. In my opinion, that is what a cat should do. But he has no interest in that. Instead, he wants to be in the house all day long. I lose patience with him when I see him laying around sometimes and call him names and tell him he is a welfare bum that refuses to work. I've told him the purpose of his life is to catch mice but he acts as though my purpose in life is to serve him.

I feel he's love busting me and making me have disrespectful judgements towards him. What do you think I should do?


Can you get the cat to post here?

There is always two sides to every story.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 04/30/15 11:56 AM
He won't post.
He thinks humankind is stupid and not worthy of his time.
I saw him looking at a National Geographic magazine on the table and the article was about ancient Egypt and worship of cats.
He thinks he is better than everyone else.
Posted By: unwritten Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/01/15 03:11 AM
Jedi you are coming at this all wrong.
Tell the cat that he is NOT allowed in the garden, and by all means, stay away from the Mice Family!
They will all be dead by tomorrow, yet he miraculously will know nothing.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/01/15 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by unwritten
Jedi you are coming at this all wrong.
Tell the cat that he is NOT allowed in the garden, and by all means, stay away from the Mice Family!
They will all be dead by tomorrow, yet he miraculously will know nothing.

Okay I'll try that
Posted By: TheRoad Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 05/01/15 12:38 PM
Originally Posted by unwritten
Jedi you are coming at this all wrong.
Tell the cat that he is NOT allowed in the garden, and by all means, stay away from the Mice Family!
They will all be dead by tomorrow, yet he miraculously will know nothing.

Evidently some people do not know about disrespectful judgments banghead or POJA rant2

MrRollieEyes

laugh
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/09/15 05:07 AM
Well, I have some updates since my last post.
I followed the posted advice and told him not to attack mice and birds...
But... He started attacking mice and birds near the garden (near the cucumber plants).
As I was drinking some Folgers coffee and thinking of the honest man Juan Valdez, I watched in horror as he leaped from the ground and took the life of an innocent sparrow. That was 2 months ago. I ignored his actions and thought they would go away over time.

A few days ago, the FBI kicked in my front door while I was watching a Star Trek rerun. Captain Kirk was about to kiss a blue alien girl when the agents from the FBI shouted they had a search warrant for my home. I read it and the officer said they were looking for my cat. Apparently he is suspected of killing an endangered mouse and its a violation of federal law. Something called the Endangered Species or Specimen Act. The penalty of it is death by listening to the Dianne Reames show.

I told the agent the cat wasnt here, that I dont own a cat and dont know any cat. The agent had cute eyes, and she was wearing a FBI mask when she spoke with me. I thought about what Dr. Harley said of dating 30 women...She had a nice figure and I asked for her number. She gave it to me...then took off the mask and I saw she had a handlebar mustache!

Now, I have 2 main issues. A wanted cat and a handlebar mustache woman. What should I do with the cat and the womans phone number?
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/10/15 03:55 AM
Put signs up for "Missing Cat" with handlebar mustache woman's number on it. Relocate feline off-premises. Perhaps she'll think whoever returns it was the one harboring it.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/11/15 05:11 AM
Okay the Handlebar Mustache lady called me. She said she got my number from the FBI database. I guess they have everyone's number and any agent can access it.
She told me she could tell I seemed really interested in her but felt that I changed as soon as I saw her handlebar mustache. She said she has a genetic disorder which called muctachitis and it causes handlebar mustaches and hairy chests.

Now, she has a great figure except for the problems with her genetic disorder.
I'm very confused. she said if we date she could teach me how to properly wax a mustache but thats not a typical quality I look for in a woman.
Posted By: unwritten Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 07/13/15 07:15 PM
According to Dr Harley, if she meets your other needs very well, you may be able to overlook this mustache situation and still fall in love and find her beautiful to boot. wink

But, that cat needs to go. He is nothing but trouble.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/03/15 07:55 PM
I ran 2 races Saturday!

[Linked Image from s17.postimg.org]

Saturday morning 5k: 3rd place in 30-39 year old group



[Linked Image from s30.postimg.org][/img]

Saturday 15 K Finish Line: 3rd place in 30-40 year old group.

Posted By: axslinger85 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/03/15 08:30 PM
Awesome! How hot outside was it in your area?
Posted By: pinnacle06 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/03/15 10:22 PM
Running is so therapeutic... I do the same. Have a 5k coming up this saturday and a half marathon in Oct. Can't wait!
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/04/15 03:23 AM
Way to go Jedi!
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/04/15 03:39 AM
Originally Posted by axslinger85
Awesome! How hot outside was it in your area?

High 80s. Perfect running weather.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/04/15 03:39 AM
Originally Posted by pinnacle06
Running is so therapeutic... I do the same. Have a 5k coming up this saturday and a half marathon in Oct. Can't wait!

No need to wait! Run More!
Posted By: unwritten Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/04/15 12:30 PM
High 80's. Yuck!

It was high 80's here too and I was a bridesmaid in an outdoor wedding. I think I would rather have been running back to back races. smile
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/21/15 03:59 AM
Well i have caught the canning bug and have been canning in my spare time. I've been using the open boil method but juat received a pressure cooker and also a freezer.
when i was a kid all my friends were Mormon and i was alwaya impressed with their pantries. They had enough food for several months. I would like to have a similar supply.
i canned some zucchini (dd8 helps me) and the flavor was incredible.
Posted By: Jedi_Knight Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/21/15 04:01 AM
I nearly gave up on love...
and then started reading the Fountainhead.
Ayn Rands writings instill romanticism in me!
Posted By: axslinger85 Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/21/15 12:31 PM
Gave up on love? Sounds pretty heavy.
Posted By: LearnedTooLate Re: New Chapter: Post Divorce - 08/22/15 04:23 AM
Jedi,

Are you doing okay?

Seriously, for the last several weeks to maybe 1 1/2 months, you have posted things, mostly on other people's threads, you have sometimes delved into a Jedi Knight version of recommendations versus an MB Dr. Harley philosophy.

It has not been every post you make, but often enough to cause concern.

How are things Really going for you?

I care my friend. Others on here do as well.

LTL
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