Alrighty, where to begin. His Needs, Her Needs has been recommended to me by a couple people and I have yet to get a copy because I have been unemployed/underemployed for over 3 years. I've been separated for almost a year in the hopes that I get back into a good-paying job that will support my family. Hasn't happened. I've been hoping that all the self-improvement that I have been engaged in (and it has been significant) would be noticed, and my wife would open a dialogue so we can start to repair our marriage.

A little about her: She is NOT a communicator. She does not discuss issues like an adult - she keeps her feelings inside until they angrily spill out, then there is no 'discussion', only what "You need to do to fix things", meaning me. Very frustrating. I've tried to express my feelings time after time and she just will not take my feelings or viewpoint into consideration.

We have 2 daughters - 4 years and 15 months. My family is my world. Everything else is secondary, but I don't see my girls as much as I need to. I watch them at my house (where I am not currently living) 5 days a week, all day. I practically live there except that when my wife comes home from work, I leave.

I should mention that she filed for divorce in January, and the 30 day window has elapsed. I cannot afford an attorney so she will end up getting an uncontested settlement.

Last Thursday evening she got home and immediately got the girls ready for bed, an hour earlier than usual. Red flag. When I left, a little voice told me to park down the street and watch, which I did. Ten minutes hadn't passed when the other man pulled up and went into my house. I had suspected his existence, but hadn't caught them. SInce it was dark, I went to my backyard and watched them through my windows as they watched a movie, snuggling on the sofa, then moved to the bedroom where I decided that I didn't need to witness any more of this and entered the house. He hid somewhere, then tore out the front door when I went into another room. I was calm and collected as I did all of this - no violence or shouting or threatening, anything like that.

So now I know, her family knows (she had cut off communication with them also). And I told her that I was not setting foot in my house after that night. It just feels dirty to me, knowing another man has been sleeping in my bed and lounging on my sofa.

I have not seen my girls for 3 days already and it's killing me. I found this site when I was searching for a copy of the aforementioned book, so here I am. I am well behind the curve here with respect to saving my marriage, which I still want to do, despite the fact that my wife is having an affair. For the record, I have not cheated. Been tempted for sure, went out on a couple dinner dates to see if that's what I wanted, but that's all the farther I went in that direction. I was not and am not interested in anyone else.

So that's me. I know I am a tadpole in a very large pond here, but any advice anyone is willing to take the time to give and point me in the right direction would be appreciated. I don't have a lot of support in the real world except for church and some counseling I did last summer when I had the money.

Cheers.

OMGosh, a million things to respond to here but very little time!

FIRST, get your thread moved over to the Surviving an Affair Forum. Do so by clicking on the "Notify" link on the bottom of your thread and ask the moderators to move it for you. It will be in the proper forum and you'll get alot more responses.

Be sure to reply to your responders and answer their questions!

SECOND-- check your local library for any of the MB books. They usually carry most of them. They are not expensive on the MB forum but you also might check Amazon.com as they sometimes have used ones for just a few dollars.

THIRD- Be sure to read the "Start Here!" thread at the top of the Surviving an Affair Forum. Read those links! It will give you a basic guideline and answer alot of your questions.

FOURTH- Why are YOU out of the house? You need to move back in, if at all possible.

FIFTH- Did you recognize this guy as he was exiting? Did your W admit who he is? You need to find out who he is!


Welcome to Marriage Builders! You are not alone!

Blindsided,

You need to get DNA tests for your children.

God Bless
Gamma

Welcome to MB.

Please read this.
Men Don't Leave Your Home

Hey there. Sorry I haven't been quick to respond - been fighting a nasty chest/head cold.

I agree with the advice about my not being there. It has done all of the above - enabled her to cheat, exposed my kids to this amoral parasite...

When I packed a bag and left for a couple days to get away from the pressure, I did so with the intention of coming back after she cooled off, which I did, but she changed the locks on me. There is no using logic with this woman. There is no conversation, either - only what she thinks I should do to "fix things" while ignoring the underlying problems.

When I have attempted to move back in, she has threatened to call the police, and move out herself. I did not want to start another huge confrontation so I relented. Her father and other people gave me the same advice - I need to be in that house. However, a very good friend of mine went through the same thing with his wife, and having read His Needs Her Needs, advised me NOT to move back in. So I was getting all this conflicting advice, all the while going to a Christian counselor alone, trying to get her to join me. I really think I probably caused more damage by not moving back in. Consider also that she had been sleeping in the baby's room after she was born, so we had been "separated" for a while before she changed the locks on me.

No, I don't. They are obviously mine.

There's an interesting phenomenon occurring right now, also. I exposed her affair to her family (again, her father and I have talked a lot about our problems). Her family is supporting her by ignoring the evidence that I have and listening to her baseless character assassination against me.

Here's what I know:

� There was a man in my house all evening.
� He took off his shoes and socks and looked generally very comfortable being there. This tells me that this has been going on a while.
� In his presence, my wife changed into a cotton nightshirt, and nothing else.
� They cuddled on the sofa with a movie. I could not see everything that was going on, but plenty could have.
� They retired to the bedroom where he was observed lounging comfortably on my bed.

At that point i entered the house.

Now, her brother and sister are still believing my wife's claim that "nothing happened", that they just watched a movie. They are disregarding ALL of the above activity and siding with her, saying that I have "no proof" of anything.

Are you kidding me??!!??

Does anyone know the odds of reconciling after divorce? My WW filed 30+ days ago, and Dday was last Thursday. I am quite certain she is still deep in the fog but is hell bent on divorce. With 2 kids under 4 years of age, I would like to see us repair our marriage instead of going down this road.

It would be different if she had agreed to go to counseling int he first place, but she never has, and has never acknowledged her role in our problems, even before the infidelity. Everything is MY fault still, and I don't feel as though al of our options have been remotely exhausted before the divorce card is played.

Am I delusional?

Yes.
Dr Harley has worked with many couples reconciling after divorce and remarrying.
He also wrote an article about it

Here.

Should I Remarry my Ex-Spouse? #1
Should I Remarry my Ex-Spouse? #2

Thanks for the links.

While I personally don't know anyone who has remarried after divorce, my friend (who used Dr. Harley's advice to save his marriage) has TWO friends who are in the process of reconciling after their divorce. I know of a couple other people as well. Not very many, though. I am hoping to avoid it in the first place but I'm just now getting involved with Dr. Harley's works and she has already filed. Kind of in panic mode and trying not to make things worse.

Hopeful_Person update

Click the link to read her most recent post/update.
Then, if interested, click on her name to view her history, you will be able to locate her first thread and read her amazing story.

What's going on BNM?

Is the affair still ongoing?

Did you move back into your home?

Unless she has a current order of protection against you , you can legally re-enter your residence.

Go to your local sheriff's office, tell them you have been illegally locked out of your home & request an escort to re-enter the premises.

"But Pepperband, won't this be a love-buster?" Nooooooooooo

This is not a love buster. It is the 'stick' of plan A. Asserting your rights.
Just because she will not like it, does not mean it is on this LB list.



Once you are safely inside, you do something on the "carrot" side of Plan A. You start to make a delicious meal. (be prepared with a bag of groceries) You clean the kitchen. You change the bed sheets .... etc.

Never raise your voice. Never show disrespect for her feelings, no matter what her feelings are. Just listen to her if she is a lunatic.

Now, this is the IMPORTANT part.
Before you enter your home, you be certain that the VAR (voice activated recorder) in your pocket is functioning. What you need to be wary of is that WW will attempt to bait you into an argument and then call the police claiming "abusive and/or threatening". You never tell WW you are protecting yourself with a VAR.

The most likely thing that will happen when you get the sheriff escort, WW will leave the house. If she does, you do a search for and adultery evidence. You put spyware on her computer. When you have a chance, put a hidden GPS on her vehicle. Research ALL these things on the MB forum "Operation Investigate".

Got it?

These are suggestions of things to DO. Your behavior and your attitude must demonstrate calm self assurance.
Can you do that?

If you want to get responses on this thread you need to post to it! You came here and made a few posts and then abandoned your thread, only to come back 10 days later and post this to someone else's thread!

You started this thread at a quiet time for this board but you did get some responses. If you need more help you need to keep turning up!

So the wife has filed for divorce and as far as I know is still seeing the guy she is cheating with. I am out of the house and have cut off all contact with her unless it has to do with picking up my kids. She is doing all her talking through her lawyer.

I still speak to her father, though. We talk about all that has happened and he is a good source of support especially with his encyclopedic knowledge of scripture. He lives by the Bible and is not pleased with his daughter, but has not necessarily 'sided' with either of us. I am not sure if I should continue talking with him about anything, even though my wife has cut off communication with him, which hurts him. I feel bad about what she is doing, and have talked to him about all the things I did wrong in the marriage that I wish I could do right if I had a do-over - mostly in the hope that the information will get back to her if/when she ever decides that she wants to try reconciling.

So what say you - good idea or bad idea to keep talking to the FIL, and why? I am getting conflicting opinions as usual, and not sure what the right thing is.

Have you exposed her affair? To whom?

Why did you move out of your home if she had the affair?

Are you in Plan B?

I and others asked you questions on your SAA thread, but you never responded back.

Okay, answers. Sorry, been a very rough couple of weeks.

I did expose the affair, to her parents and sister, and on Facebook to anyone on my friends list who read it. Some of her friends ore on there as well. One unfriended me. I left the post up for the better part of a day and then took it down after it had served its purpose.

I had already been out of the house for some time. A little background: I packed a bag and left for a couple days to remove myself from the "pressure-cooker" environment I was in from the constant criticism I was receiving from my wife. I have been unemployed for a while and looking for work while being caretaker to our 2 small children. Nothing I did was ever good enough for her, despite the fact that I was doing everything I knew how to get a job. Anyway, my intention was to get out of dodge for a night or two and let things cool off. Ya know, rather than blowing a gasket and doing something I'd regret later. Well, when I got back to my house she had changed the locks. When I came into the garage with my stuff, she threatened to call the police, so wanting to avoid confrontation, I left and stayed with my parents. I've tried to move back a couple more times but I've gotten the same response - threats to involve the police. While I know they cannot keep me from living in my own house, I wanted to avoid that whole scene anyway. I haven't lived in the house since.

Plan B... I guess so. I need to refresh myself on what all Plan B entails. I have cut off contact with her (and it's mutual). I watch the girls 2 days a week (not enough), and her lawyer keeps trying to get me to sign a "parenting agreement", which I will not do. I'm sure it's some kind of maneuvering that they want to play later, but I'm not having any of it. Yes, she filed for divorce.

So right now I don't know much. I don't know if she's still seeing captain [censored] or not, what her state of mind is - nothing. I've left her alone and kept myself busy to stave off the depression and insanity of it all. I know I do want to restore our marriage but I have basically gone dark.

I've also contacted Legal Aid to get some pro bono help with the divorce since I am jobless and broke. My daughter's 4th birthday is tomorrow and I am wondering if I am even going to see her. Another tough one I am having a hard time with.

Hope that answers your questions.

Here.
How to Plan B Correctly

Who did you expose to on OM's side?

It's best to stick with one thread so that we can get all details of your situation.

IMO, for a new male poster with only 10 posts, Plan B is probably not warranted at this point in time. Dr. Harley usually tries to encourage men to Plan A longer, because Plan B has little chance of winning a wife back in most scenarios.

Do you want to keep your marriage? If so, you need to expose this affair far and wide ESPECIALLY TO YOUR CHILDREN, contact this man and let him know that you intend to win your wife back and you expect him to leave, resume contact with your wife and tell her and show her that you can build a marriage with her that is everything she ever wanted.

Your children are some of the best reasons in the world to do this, if that is what you want. Their odds in life go up dramatically if their parents stay together. In fact, your odds in life go up dramatically if you keep your marriage together.

Nobody would fault you if you do not want to keep your marriage with a woman who was not faithful to you. We would gladly support you in walking away.

But if you want to save your marriage, you need to know that Plan B is not likely to work.

You need to expose the affair to your girls, and you need to warn them that this POSOM may be a predator.

Your posts have been merged to one thread. Please stick to this thread. Thank you.

This is typically a bad idea, if you want to save your marriage:

Men, do not leave your home!

Don't Plan B. Plan A.

* Finish exposure. Tell your four year old daughter. Using age appropriate language, warn your daughter that this man is not allowed to touch her or her sister in sexual ways, and that if he does this, she should tell you and get help. Tell your daughter that mommy should not be dating this man and should not have brought him into your lives, because she was married to you, and that this was wrong.
* Get back into your home if legally possible. I understand it may not be, at this point, due to divorce proceedings.
* Beg friends for help getting a lawyer.
* GET A JOB. You have got to get a job.
* See a doctor about getting on antidepressants. If you don't, your emotions will make it impossible for you to function. If you want your marriage back, you are going to have to override your emotional reactions and stick to a very difficult course. Being out of work PLUS all this crap happening on top of you has surely taken a massive emotional toll. You need some help to override that, because you are in for the ride of your life to get this POSOM out of your wife and daughters' lives and recover your marriage.

Wow.. where to start answering all these. Appreciate the merging of threads.. I wish I could get on here more often but I am rather busy juggling a lot of stuff at once.

I'll work backward, I guess.

My oldest daughter turned 4 this week. I don't think exposing the affair to her would be useful. She does not seem very aware of everything that is happening. I don't even know how much time if any she has spent with the scumbag.

Lawyer - I have contacted Legal Aid but have not heard back. I got a number of a guy who does simple divorces for Dept of Vocational Rehab. This is not going to be a simple divorce. I would really like her to stop the proceedings, actually.

Get a job - I've been trying. There are no jobs here. Wherever you live, it is worse here, I guarantee you. I have applied everywhere, even retail, and no interviews, nothing. I've been putting time into a new business venture also, since I actually believe that may be more likely to get me any kind of income.

Doctor - no medical insurance. No job, no income = No antidepressants. I have been selling my belongings just to be able to eat and put gas in my car. That's it. All of my bills remain unpaid and in arrears. If we ever do reconcile, there is a huge debt that will be staring us down (still will be regardless, I guess). As for being emotional - I've gone into robot mode since catching her, so I don't know if it will be much of a problem.

Plan B - I have been trying this but I really don't have anyone who can be an IM. We have a retail business and I have been picking the girls up there and dropping them off. She stays in her office until the exchange is complete. Lately she has been coming out of her office when I am still there, which bothers me. I still don't really want to see her face right now.

Exposure - I posted on FB the day after, and left it up for a day. I called her father and told him, and I told him months ago that I suspected she was cheating, but as you can imagine, the father just said "I doubt it, she wasn't raised like that", and he was actually in some denial after I told him everything I witnessed. I guess he needs to see video of the act itself to be convinced - this is what I hoped to get, actually, but the dogs heard me come in. Some of her family and a few of her friends are on my FB list, so they know. I left it up long enough for enough people to read it. Got a couple nasty responses, of course, and one of her enabler friend/employees unfriended me. This employee cheated on her husband also, so I guess cheaters stick together and help each other rationalize their actions.

I don't know if I should be in Plan A or B - I am getting conflicting advice here. On the one hand, I caught her red-handed. I am not okay with pretending things are okay and "normal". I have written her a couple letters, the most recent one (a few weeks before I caught her cheating) was 4600 words. I didn't beg or grovel, but I did tell her that I was starting to understand why things went south, and that I wanted to repair our marriage. She did read it but she had no comment or anything.

So I have been kind of doing Plan B since Feb 28. My gut is pushing me toward talking to her about everything, but she is still ignoring me for the most part. I don't feel she would be receptive to talking. We communicate sparingly through text only when it relates to the kids.

The house - she changed all the locks and the garage door code. I realize she cannot legally do this, and I am sure her lawyer told her to do it. I do need to get some stuff from there. April 10 is the restraining order hearing so I have until then I guess. She filed this right after I caught her and it is clearly retaliatory in nature, but she'll probably get it because that's how the system favors women. I've never even thought about being any kind of danger to her or my kids much less actually done anything. Another lawyer move I suspect.

I honestly don't know what her emotional state is right now. Is she remorseful yet? Is she still seeing the dickbag OM? I just don't know. If I know her, I would say that it will take her 10 or 20 years to feel any kind of remorse for what she is doing now. She has been getting all kinds of super advice from her ignorant friends. Advice like "You should never settle" (whatever the hell that means), "You need to do what makes YOU happy", Your girls won't be happy unless YOU'RE happy". You know - all the typical bad advice. She is definitely fogged in bad and I really don't know if there is anything I can do to get her to see the damage she is doing.

I don't have ANY money to put toward a GPS tracker or anything like that, or I would. I am severely disadvantaged since I have zero income. I would love to find out everything I can about this idiot. I bet if I could afford a PI, I'd find out that he had other women on a leash as well, being the swell guy that he is.

Not sure what else to write at the moment. Thanks for everything and I'll try to get on here more often and respond to questions and stuff.

I should also add...

I have a good friend who is helping me through this ordeal. We have lunch a couple times a week. He went through the same thing I am going through. His wife cheated on him (with another woman), moved out, the whole thing. They lived apart and he went to Plan B and after quite a while she came crawling back. He keeps giving me advice as though his wife and my wife are the same person and we have the same situation. I don't know that his advice is always right, but I don't know what else to do sometimes. He tells me that God will restore our marriage, but I have to let go. I am taking that route for now, but I don't know that it will work with her. I'm not sure anything will. She seems hell bent on destroying everything for some strange D (I'm making up my own abbreviations

Whenever I tell him what is going on, he tells me that the same thing happened to him, and what to expect next. He has been right most of the time, but still, I can't imagine our situations are exactly alike.

You'd be surprised how much each and every affair is the same..... stay on board long enough. The veteran posters are not psychics, they see it over and over again.

Dr. Harley advises men to stay in Plan A for as long as possible, only moving to Plan B if they start to dislike or even hate their wives during the time they are in the fog. Plan B is so you can preserve her account in your love bank. Men can often compete with another man without hurting their emotional health; however, since each person is different, you have to evaluate this for yourself daily.

Meanwhile Plan A for as long as you can. Move back home, be a great husband, and avoid all love busters. Don't beg or plead with your wife. MOVE BACK HOME!

If you go into Plan B now, your foggy wife will feel justified in continuing her affair, since you "don't love" her anyway and "abandoned her."

I would love to move back home, but she changed ALL the locks and April 10th there is a hearing for a restraining order/no contact order she files against me. Kinda hard with all that in place.

Well, the cheating wife got her restraining order / no contact order. Funny how someone can just hire a lawyer and get them to make you do whatever you want, like a marionette. Lie during a hearing, make someone out to be someone you know they aren't. Have your lawyer coach you to not say anything about having another man in the house, ya know, since there would be an admission of adultery in the court record.

I am in bizzarro world right now.

In case anyone decides to read any of this and give any more advice, I should mention that I landed a 6 month contract job yesterday. I'll be lawyering up in a few weeks once I save the cabbage.

I'm so sorry.

You weren't able to get back in your house? Is your name on the house?

She has the OM in YOUR house?

I don't think OM is living at my house, but I am sure she has him over often enough that I should be concerned about my daughters.

I spoke with a lawyer at Legal Aid this week and he said that she will probably get the house. We have a business as well that we each own 50% of, and that will probably be sold and split. She works at this business so she'll probably be out of a job. She is a hairstylist, so she'll just rent a booth somewhere else and her clientele will stay with her. However, I am quite confident that she will not be able to pay the mortgage on the house by herself without having to work a LOT. She will end up losing the house and renting a crappy apartment somewhere. This is one of the scenarios I was hoping to avoid with respect to my kids.

If I am offered a more permanent position, I will have the ability to rent a house or maybe buy another one. If lawyer fees don't kill me, I will try to get primary custody at that point. Between the adultery and amount of hard liquor she has gone through in the past year, who knows... I think with this income I will hire a PI to get all the dirt on the affair, and get a lawyer of my own to keep from getting taken to the cleaners. I might ask for a drug test as well to see if she's been getting into weed.

I'm in Plan B, especially now with the no contact order - don't really have a choice. For some stupid reason I still envision my family back together again and happy. She might have been right about my being delusional.


Edit to add: The house is in both our names. NM is a community property state.

Please tell me you're at least documenting everything?

DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT

Since it's your home also can you get a trespass order against OM entering your home?

Have you done a background check on OM? Can you get the kids with you? You must protect your kids DD. OM are predators.

I went back a couple of times and still didn't see an answer.

I saw who you exposed on your WW's side. Who did you expose to on OM's side?

I exposed on Facebook and via phone to her parents. I did say who was on my FB friends list - some of her friends and family members as well. One was an employee who unfriended me after voicing her opinion, which means nothing because she is a cheater herself.

OM - I don't even know his name. All I have are pictures of his car in front of my house and license number. I don't know how to go about getting his info from that, legally anyway. It really seems like I am behind the eight ball form a legal perspective here. Right now I have no money for a PI or a lawyer. I start this new job May 1, so it will be a couple weeks after that that I'll have any money to pursue anything.

As is typical, she is not speaking to her family much either, especially her father. She was raised in a Christian home and her father sides with scripture on this matter - he is against adultery and divorce. He is not happy with what is going on, and neither is the rest of her family.

What about phone records? They must contact each other. Can you check online phone records?

You MUST find out who OM is and expose on his side.

What can you do to get this information?

I am sure they have been texting for months. Again, I do not have $ for a lawyer, so I have not been able to subpoena phone records. She has passcoded her phone. Again, I am in a no-fault state, so adultery is of no legal consequence. All she has to do is cite "incompatibility".

Does she pay the bill?

You don't have online access to check records?

Can you follow him or a friend? To find out who he is?

Our business pays the cell phone bill - she pays that. As far as I know you cannot see text messages on your account. The business will probably be sold during the course of the divorce.

If you're part owner of that business, you should have access.

You can't read what the text messages say, but you can find out the number of OM. Then you do some Intel to find out who he is.

What about my question of following OM?

Is there a reason you don't want to know who OM is?

I do want to know who he is, but I have a restraining order against me. 150 yards from my house. I cannot adequately survey from that distance because of the way the streets are. I also don't have that kind of free time to be playing private [censored].

As far as the phone goes, I may have the user/password somewhere. I'll check.

oops.. I mean 50 yards.

Basically what I'm reading on this site is that since I am out of my house, she is divorcing me, and Plan B almost never works... why the hell am I even here?

That's why you want to do the plans. You never did a proper Plan A. Plan B comes after Plan A.

Dr. Harley has a Plan to recover marriages, but must be followed. Also, MB can help you become a better husband, person, father. There are many resources on this site.

You never exposed on OM's side. You don't know who OM is.

Plan A? I didn't even know about the affair until recently, after she had locked me out of my own house. It would be nice if my situation were textbook, wouldn't it? But it isn't. No plan A - right to Plan B.

However, when we were living apart, I did do sort of a Plan A from instinct, I guess, but it was to try to get her to reconsider our separation. Didn't work, obviously.

I am having to do what I can here. I just read Harley's book recently, so I'm stuck trying to restore at this point. Unless someone has a time machine I can borrow...

That's why you must find out who OM is and work on killing the affair. Yes you also need to protect yourself and your kids.

You also can only control you. What Love Busters were you guilty of? What Have you done to stop those and clean up your side of the street?

I know it hurts and it's frustrating. That is why get a Plan an follow it.

MB has a Plan.

Do you have your kids with you?

Have you seen this?
Guys. Come on. Assault the Ambush

Also have You emailed the radio show? It's free.

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

My 4-year old was rather chatty today. Got some information that she volunteered. I think she gave up the OM's name, and there's another female name, maybe he has a daughter or something. She said she stayed overnight with them last night. I know nothing about him except what he looks like and the car he drives, including his tag number.

Another thing that bothers me - my kids are with a lot of other people whom I don't know very well. I'd usually say that I trust my wife's judgment, but I don't. ONe woman is definitely a bad influence, telling her crap like "You should never settle" and that sort of ignorant advice.

Another tidbit for those of you who swing by once a week..

WW got a restraining/no contact order 4/10. I am not to talk to her except through text message and only as it relates to our daughters. Nothing else. Today she texts me asking me questions about her iphone email because she's not getting her email. Suddenly I am tech support. I did text her three words: "reboot your phone" to try and help, but she texted me a bunch after that and I stopped responding and called her attorney informing them that she was texting me and to ask her to stop so that I don't violate the order, which I did already by responding in the first place.

Seems she is allowing her attorney to talk her into doing things that she doesn't understand. She wants to scru the OM without fear of interruption in MY house, but when she has email trouble, she feels that I am at her disposal. Symptomatic of what the marriage was like, right there. Always what SHE wanted while my needs were irrelevant.

/rant

Made another realization today after a text from WW. She was going to go to "the lake" on Saturday. She went to the lake last summer with her divorced enabler friend, with two guys. Oh, nothing happened, she said. We were still in the same house but she was sleeping in the other bedroom. I realized that the OM is the same guy from that weekend - almost a year ago.

Question - when exactly is this affair, which of course is based on lies and deceit, going to collapse like I keep hearing about??

Have you ever thought about emailing Dr. Harley.

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

I suggest you just enter plan B and focus on your kid and self
Improvement.

Certainly call the radio show for guidance

I'm not even sure what I should be asking.

Been in Plan B for some time. Something happened yesterday that my friend thinks is significant - in a positive way. He went through this with his wife a number of years ago and used Dr. Harley's books to restore his marriage. It's a bit early yet, so I'll post it later and tell you what he said and get your opinions.

***edit***

***edit***

Not to t/j this thread, but it's in my story.

Anyone give a crap about an update?

Yes.

****edit*****

People who have bothered to reply to you:

BrainHurts
Markos
Jedi Knight
LongWayFromHome
Pineneedle
Sugar Cane
Gamma
Nerlycrzy
Pepperband

True, but I've posted a few times looking for some advice and WEEKS have gone by with no response. I know I'm not the only one on this site here for advice, but gosh dang, ya know?

Weeks really?

I have personally spent a lot of my own time trying to help you.

You still haven't done a proper exposure because you haven't found out who OM is.

What are you doing to kill the affair?

Why wouldn't you do EVERYTHING in your power to find out who OM is and protect your DDS from OM?

Can you hire a PI?

Until late last week, I had zero money and zero income. I had just run out of money and had to borrow $50 to eat. My WW gave me "my half" of our federal refund which came at the right time. I may hire a PI to run his license plate and find out about him but what can I do, threaten him? I'm not about to get myself arrested. The most I can do I suppose is to get a criminal background and whatever else a PI can dig up. Even so, I can't afford a lot.

Let's not forget that she got a restraining order/no contact order and I can't go to my own house. I don't know her status with the OM, either. I don't know how often they are together, if they stay overnight together with/without the girls - nothing.

On the positive side, I have been offered a 6-month contract position with the state. It was supposed to begin last Wednesday but some bureaucrat who needs to sign off has been out of town so I am waiting, like usual. I will be making good money, but again, I never count my chickens when all I see are eggs.

As I mentioned a while ago, I have been getting a lot of advice from a friend who has been through all this and restored his marriage using Dr. Harley's techniques. His wife cheated, and they were separated for 2 years. I have a hard time trusting because it all seems so counterintuitive.

Some things he thinks might be positive:

She texted me about her rings, which I moved from the place she had put them, asking if I had sold them. She gave me some story about wanting to give them to the girls down the road. I hid them because I was afraid she would sell them. In any case, I did not answer her texts because it would have violated the no contact order. She dropped it, didn't get mad or anything and hasn't mentioned them since. My friend seems to think that she's thinking things through. Who knows.

Another sign...? She asked my opinion about taking the girls to the lake for the weekend, if I thought it was a good idea, and if I thought it wasn't, asked me if I would watch them for the weekend. I told her it should be fine as long as they have good life vests. She's not one to do risky things with the girls. She gave me Monday with them to make up for it. And, she seemed a bit angry Monday morning and I'm not sure why. It might be that I didn't even mention her birthday which was the Friday before. Oh well - no contact order, babe. I also think that she might not have had a good a time as she might have hoped. The girls both got sick on the trip, and she was sick Monday afternoon when I took them back to her. SAnd got everywhere, too - never fun.

Another thing that I have noticed is that when I pick up/drop off the girls, she has been hanging around closer to the front rather than hiding in her office like she did at first. I should mention that the exception to the RO is the exchange of the girls at our retail business. She has an office about halfway back. Lately she has been making herself a lot more visible. She looks good, too.

One more thing. I have still not answered the divorce summons. Her lawyer mentioned it during the RO hearing in April, and I got the form that day. I have not filed it, and I have not received anything from her or her lawyer. Whether she is holding off, I do not know. I am hoping.

If she does proceed, I don't think I will contest. I am going to let her have whatever. I'm sure she'll give me what is mine but I don't care about the house or business. She will lose them all by herself anyway and have only herself to blame at that point. I don't want to create ANY source of future animosity if she ever emerges from the fog so I will not fight her for anything.

Not seeing my kids is the most difficult. When I start this job I will see them on Saturdays and that is it. Maybe every other Sunday, not sure yet. Still not enough. I need to read to them before bed and be there for them as long as I can. I am missing their childhood and it kills me. The longer this goes on, the more resentment I have toward her.

I'll wrap for tonight.

I am no veteran, but I think I understand Dr. Harley's advice. You are pretty much still at ground zero. This affair you realize started a year ago, and has benn going on the entire time you wrre separated. It is deeply entrenched. Have you read surviving an affair? Write to the radio show, as BH advised. They will address your situation and send you a copy of the book. In the meantime see if you can get it at the library. As was mentioned to you earlier waywards usually follow the same script. It's amazing. "i love you but I'm not in love with you" verbatim.

Anyway, you know this guy was the same one from the cabin last year. Is he a co-worker? That might be the best chance you have at breaking up the affair. You need to expose that scumbag to the people HE cares about. So even though you've been separated for a while, you only just started. According to Dr. H. most affairs only last 6 mths after having seen the light of day. As the vets said you needed to plan A. Plan A shows your WW that you are a gd option for her. I'm not sure if you can plan A at all with this no contact order. Perhaps a smile? Does the no contact order have an end date? Maybe the next time shyou see her say you would love to talk and suggest she lift the order?

Believe me I understand your frustration.

The reason to find out who OM is to expose him to his family and friends.

To find out if this OM has a background and to keep him from your daughters.

If you can kind find out his name then you could do some researches on your own (operation investigate) for little money. Can you borrow money from family? Credit card?

To not threaten, but to Confront him. Please listen to these clips.
"Don't Put up with OM" per Dr. Harley

Also this.
"I Encourage BHs to Confront OM" Dr. Harley

Also, I have advised you to email the Harleys (and if you become a caller they would send you free book). So why wouldn't you do that?

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

He is not a coworker. He was the friend of my WW's client/friend's boyfriend. The four of them spent the weekend at a lake and they met either there or shortly before then. I don't know that there was anything physical at that time, but I am pretty sure that the physical affair has been ongoing for 5-8 months. She bought a new comforter for the bed, new shower curtain for the guest bathroom, and I noticed she started sleeping on 'my' side of the bed because OM was sleeping on her side. I understand that she did this so it did not feel like OUR bed. These indicators are pretty accurate, I think.

I know nothing about OM other than his first name and his license plate number. I also have phone numbers from WWs cell phone records I could have investigated. By the way, her coworkers are siding with her, of course, partly because she is their boss and because one in particular is a cheater herself. The betrayed is always at fault, right?

I will email the show with my situation because I really am like a deer in the headlights right now. I am not sure what my next step should be.

yup the Harleys are really good at responding quickly. If you include your phone number you can be a caller on the show.

Yes. When can you do this?

Wow. WW demanded that I buy two car seats (at $165 each) because she is tired of having to take them out of her car and put them back in when we exchange the girls. I barely cashed the tax refund check and she's already dictating to me how I am to spend it. Unbelievable.

A bit of a rant, but it just tells me that she has no intention of reconciling. I am getting the feeling I should just get the divorce over with and accept that I will barely ever see my kids.

I did email and got a response. I've been asked to be on the show next week. Is that show actually broadcast on any stations or is it internet only?

I got a quote yesterday from a PI - $70 for a full background check that includes

criminal history
credit
residential
professional licenses
past associates
relatives
phone numbers.

Sounds reasonable.

Extremely. Cheaper than the two carseats! Go for it.

I just replied to the PI and noticed that his first name is the same as the OM's. Uh oh... what are the chances? LOL

Fantastic.

Let us know when you're on.

Did you pay for the background check?

The show is broadcast in Minnesota

Just spoke with Joyce Harley - I agreed to be on next week. I am kinda nervous, despite the fact that I actually have a broadcasting degree =o\

You don't have anything to worry about? They make you feel so comfortable and they're easy to talk to. Let us know when you're on.

Just checked her phone records again. Seems she has been talking to her lawyer yesterday, the day before, and a few other times within the past couple weeks. I haven't heard anything from them for a while - I was hoping she was thinking about reconsidering. I guess I am delusional like she says.

Still no number that could be OM's number?

Did you check all numbers?

Yes, I have two numbers that I've zeroed in on. I might go to a public phone and call them to see who answers. I am first going to cross reference them with the business database to make sure they aren't clients.

Try googling them and see or whitepages.com reverse look up.

Also you can block your number with *67 and it will show up as private or unknown.

The only thing I have is a cell phone. Does *67 still work with that? I did do a reverse lookup on everything and eliminated a lot of the numbers that way. Cell numbers are almost always private.

Yes it still works.

On the show now.

Alrighty then. I was on the radio show today and Dr. Harley advised that I do Plan A. I am going to follow up with him through email, but I found it to be rather surprising that he recommended that when my wife has steadfastly refused to even speak to me about anything, and had a current restraining order. Not sure how to go about that without getting arrested or having it be effective in any way. He suggested a letter, which I tried already. I might read Surviving an Affair before proceeding.

Did anyone catch the show today? Thoughts?

I haven't yet, but will.

Did he mention any other Plan A ideas?

What did he say about the restraining order?

He didn't really address it directly. That's one of the followup questions I'll have for him.

Check this out, though - the friend I mentioned, the one who led me to HNHN, he went through this same thing with his wife a number of years ago. His wife heard the show live and heard Dr. Harley mention them. I about had a stroke because I didn't know he was going to say anything about them. Turns out she was cool with it, thank God.

Good.

I would think she would be proud. Do they follow MB?

I will post your show as soon as it's in the archive.

Do you have any Plan A ideas?

Even though I've been in Plan B, more or less, I have been maintaining a positive demeanor when she makes requests regarding the kids. I always say yes to her requests to watch them at different times than usual, etc. Basically when I do have communication with her I am accommodating to her needs and not confrontational at all (not that I ever was). When she does try to bait me into arguing sometimes, I just ignore it. I used to get sucked into arguments with her but I have better things to do these days.

I did make a Mother's Day card (from the girls, of course) for her, and put their handprints on it and let them put flower stickers on it.. She hasn't mentioned it, though, which I expected.

Plan A starts with communicating a willingness to right the wrongs of the marriage; a commitment to eliminate love busters, to learn to meet emotional needs, to build a compatible lifestyle together.

Sometimes all you can do in Plan A for a time is eliminate the love busters. Sometimes there's only some parts you can really do because your wife is not open to love bank deposits. But you take the parts you can do and polish them up really good, and you study up on the parts you can't do yet so you'll be ready (listen to Marriage Builders Radio daily to be prepping!), and you look for chinks in the armor through which you will be able to lob small starter love bank deposits that open the way for larger deposits in the future.

I am betting that with a restraining order, there were probably some love busters that need to be ELIMINATED, fast.

That's a great component of a great Plan A!

I totally agree.

Also wasn't there a hearing or something to have the RO dropped? What do you need to do about the RO?

No, just the original RO hearing. I haven't heard anything and I haven't asked about it. I thought about saying something but I wouldn't know how to, without ya know - violating it.

Can you check with the police station or court house? How long Is it for?

She contacts you, correct? How is this not violating the RO?

Did you ever find out who OM is?

Pay for the PI?

I have not found out about OM yet. PI is waiting on me for more info. Not sure how to find out about him other than to call those numbers and try to isolate one.

I was on the radio show yesterday, I got my copy of Surviving An Affair today. Either she sent it last week or those guys are the most efficient people I have ever seen. Wow.

Okay folks, I need some advice. The Private Eye has a report for me, all I have to do is pay him. Do I get the report, and what should I do when I get it?

The opportunity to find out if this guy has a criminal history should be enough for me to get it without a second thought - since he is around my two girls, but you can imagine how I am not really wanting to know the information, knowing that it might kill this halfway decent mood I've been enjoying lately.

...since he is around my two girls

Pay the PI

its been over a week -- PAY HIM!

get on with it!

I know, I know. I just paid him. Silly to even wonder about it, especially since my girls are here with me at the moment. Waiting for the report now.

Tell us what the report says.

Now you can finally expose on OM's side. How will you do this?

No idea how I should expose on OM's side. I'll have to see who his relatives are. Hopefully there will be enough contact info for everyone.

When you get his name check for him on Facebook.

Okay, I have his info. TWO mug shots included in the report. No sexual offenses, a LOT of traffic violations including improper child restraint. The PI is parsing the info for me now since it is just a wall of data to me. Correlated his phone number and the name of the girl that my daughter keeps mentioning.

Found his facebook page and am trying to figure out who his family members are.

Good. For now just copy and save all his Facebook contacts and then you can categorize them.

Good job BlindSidedNM.

WOW.. I am talking with my friend (the one who steered me toward MB), and the OM is a friend of a long time friend of HIS. Should be interesting.

Looks like OM has a domestic violence arrest, a DWI arrest, and gets pulled over a lot. He has 3 kids and is paying child support. It also looks like he enjoys his cannabis as well. Not something I want around my kids.

How do I do that? My WW blocked me from her facebook profile, but I had my buddy check, and she is in fact on his friends list.

I have to think about all this for a bit.. sleep on it.

I have to add this: Knowing all of this information gives me a sense of empowerment. A sense that I might actually be able to strategically hurl a monkey wrench into her affair.

Have you tried looking up OM's Facebook now that you have his name?

Also make a new Facebook with a new email and see if you can see his Facebook.

What about Your friend? Will he copy them for you (since he's a Facebook friend of OM)?

Now do you see why I was pushing you so hard to find out who OM is?

Now you can protect your girls and throw a nuclear bomb into their affair by exposing OM for the person he really is.

At the same time it's not giving me a lot of comfort knowing this guy is only 6 years older than her (I am 19 years older), he has a job while I am still being jerked around with this job I was supposed to start on May 1. My friend's wife said that she thought he was good-looking, while I don't know if I can compete there, either.

I just checked her phone records against the verified number and she is still talking to or texting him every single day. Doesn't look good.

After a sleepless night of incessant thinking, I have come to the conclusion that I am not going to win this one. I just don't see it happening. I am going to throw in the towel. She can have it all.

Dude...you just started the fight! Welcome to the rollercoaster.. Listen, why not follow the MB plan. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Even if u do end up walking, you will have your personal recovery well underway.

I wish you people knew my wife. I had a few long-term relationships and many short-term ones before I got married. Never have I encountered the kind of crap I have gotten from this one. She is NOT a typical woman that you can pigeonhole. She is stubborn, has never admitted ANY wrongdoing and has apologized to me maybe three times in the past 10 years. Everything is MY fault and it has always been my fault. I would bet that any problems she might have with this new guy she blames on me. She has way too much pride to be crawling back. She would move on to someone else before she came back to me.

Besides, how can I Plan A when she has a restraining order, and I have been in Plan B since March 1? She talks to this guy several times a day, every day. NO way am I going to change her mind.

No one would fault you if you decide to throw in the towel. I would make sure you're 100% sure you're ready. If not, then down the road you will regret it.

You can't control your WW's actions only yours.

Even if you do decide to throw in the towel, you still have the responsibility to protect your DDs from this OM.

You still need to throw a wrench into this affair and expose OM. Let your WW and OM clean up their own mess.

Exposure has already done a lot of damage and it has not ended the affair. It only pissed off a lot of people, especially WW. I exposed the affair to my facebook friends and her family and for a while no one even believed me. I had no information about the OM then, and even now I would not know who to expose to. He is not attached otherwise. No one gets involved anyway.

Same people as before but now you have dirt on the OM to share. Then get your friend to get you OM's FB contact list. Then you FB expose OM with the truth.

All of her friends know and it has not made one bit of difference as far as I can see, so what difference does it make? She'd just speed up the divorce process and use that against me in court. I am not able to do anything without it coming back to hurt me somehow.

Well I just see it as this you cant make a omlete with out breaking some eggs you need to expose the om, remember this you may not see the exposer work but it is some way. Just imagine this her friends may say something about it here and there it will start getting under her skin. Just know you are doing the right thing. Doing the right thing is very hard you watch those movies with the hero hurt and shot up but he still saves the day. So save the day!

Hmmmmm..how about give it another mth. Your wife sounds like me!! But u know she IS capable of change... You probably throw in a lot of disrespectful judgements around her. How do you know exactly what she will do or how she feels without asking her? How about you stop finding reasons to not do the plan and just do it. You won't kniw what th effect of exposure will be unless you do it. Again what do u have to lose? If it speeds up the process of divorce doesn't matter since you're headed for a divorce anyway.

I texted her a little today. Put my foot in my mouth, as usual. Hard to get any kind of Plan A going when I do that. I'll post what happened below.

5:15 pm I get a text from WW: "A friend invited me to a concert because her other friend had to cancel. Would you mind watching the girls tonight, last minute? I have to let her know asap?"

I respond: "I'm not really prepared for that, I need to shower and I have to run to the store. Not that I don't want to see them."

Her: "Please. I know you don't want to do me any favors, but I'd really appreciate it. Things like this never drop in my lap." Then she offered to bring us dinner also.

So I don't know if it was the "do me any favors" line that kinda set me off, but the next thing I said was...

"(OM) not available? He sees the girls more than I do."

Brilliant move, slick.

I think I did a quick accounting of favors she has done for me lately and got a little peeved:

� Lied to me
� Cheated on me
� Changed the locks on my own house so I would have to stay with my parents
� Filed for divorce
� Got a restraining order against me when I went to my house and caught the OM n there
� Keeping me from seeing my girls more than 2 days a week

So yeah, I was a little perturbed at the notion that any "favor" I might do for her would be "appreciated". She'd have a long way to go to show "appreciation".

5:15 pm I get a text from WW: "A friend invited me to a concert because her other friend had to cancel. Would you mind watching the girls tonight, last minute? I have to let her know asap?"

I respond: "I'm not really prepared for that, I need to shower and I have to run to the store. Not that I don't want to see them."

Her: "Please. I know you don't want to do me any favors, but I'd really appreciate it. Things like this never drop in my lap." Then she offered to bring us dinner also.

So I don't know if it was the "do me any favors" line that kinda set me off, but the next thing I said was...

"(OM) not available? He sees the girls more than I do."

Brilliant move, slick.

I think I did a quick accounting of favors she has done for me lately and got a little peeved:

- Lied to me
- Cheated on me, continues to this day
- Changed the locks on my own house so I would have to stay with my parents
- Filed for divorce
- Got a restraining order against me when I went to my house and caught the OM n there
- Keeping me from seeing my girls more than 2 days a week

So yeah, I was a little perturbed at the notion that any "favor" I might do for her would be "appreciated". She'd have a long way to go to show "appreciation".

What exactly does the restraining order say?

I am to stay 50 yards from her, 50 yards from my house, and no contact with her except through email/text and only as it pertains to the girls. There is no expiration.

I suggest That you wait before responding to texts.
I heard your call on the radio and have been reading
Your thread.
Next time POST HERE for a suggested plan A response BEFORE replying to her.
Okay?

I usually ignore texts that have nothing to do with the girls, as prescribed by Plan B, which I have been in. Since Dr. Harley recommended Plan A, it has been a bit confusing to say the least. As I said before, Plan A would be difficult at best right now. A friend of mine doesn't think Plan A is good at this time, since he knows a lot more about the situation. He says that I am not ready, whatever that means. He has been through it, so maybe he has some insight, I don't know.

I guess I saw it as a Plan A opening, but having just gotten the skinny on the OM, I didn't keep it zipped like I should have.

But it's ok for her to text you whenever she wants? Have you asked legal aide about this?

How can the RO be held to if she keeps breaking it?

Have you exposed on OM's side yet?

Looks like this is the end of the line for me. I got final divorce papers today. She got the house, the business, all of my stuff still in the house. I have nothing left. Two days a week with my girls? Not gonna cut it. This is no life.

Peace.

OUT.

So sorry to hear this BlindsidedNM.

Have you been able to retain a lawyer?

Did you ever expose on OM's side?

No, and no. I talked to my father-in-law (I guess ex FIL now) and told him that he can disclose the OM's DWI and domestic abuse arrest with the rest of my (ex) wife's family.

Insult to injury - I found a diaphragm in my kid's diaper bag today. So she is screwing the OM with my kids present. It's just a total nightmare all around. I just want to wake up, ya know?

Try to plan A her.
That is your best hope

That's what Dr. Harley told me when I was on his show. The divorce is final and the restraining order is still in effect. Kinda hard, especially when she treats me as though I'm not even there - no eye contact, nothing.

Yes I understand.
I've been in a similar situation.
She is in the state of withdrawal.
She is in love with another man and you just have to wait for them to have conflict in their affair and be there as the best option when it gets tough.

It's a terrible situation but as Harley said, it's your best hope

I really don't think she is ever going to consider getting back together, to be honest. And get married again? Seriously? I have never personally known anyone who has done that. I have a friend who knows people who has, but that's it.

I would certainly be open to that, but I have to say that she would have a LOT of work to do before I would trust her or even respect her enough for that to happen. She has dug that hole deep and I don't know that she would put forth the effort to fill it back up.

People reconcile after divorce all the time, as Harley mentioned in your call.
As for trust, the MB program is not a blind trust program. It is a program , through exercising Extraordinary precautions which removes the conditions which made the affair possible.

She has NO interest now because she is In love with someone who agrees with everything she says. In marriage conflict is inevitable.

She and her affair partner WILL have conflict.
During this time you need to maintain employment, physical and mental attractiveness to her. She will compare and contrast AND YOU are the father of her kids. That's something that he isn't.

Read the thread of justthe3ofus. His wife left the country for a year then returned hat in hand after divorce.

Just try to make love bank deposits and avoid love bank withdrawals.

Post here before picking up your kids for tips.
That is a great time to plan A.

As for maintaining employment, I've been ordered to pay $500/mo child support and I don't even have a job. Does the court expect me to knock over a bank to pay this?? When I do start working, it will probably be more. Then I've been saddled with a bunch of other debt that is really the business' debt, but since she had a lawyer and I didn't they stuck it to me hard. Oh, and the court ordered me to pay for her lawyer. WTF? WTFingF??

I understand why people don't get married. I am never getting married again, I guarantee that. I would recommend against it.

I don't really care about all the stuff she's taken from me. It's just stuff. I have lived a more spiritual, spartan life the past year. It will serve as a reminder of what she has taken IF the time ever comes when she grows a conscience.

I talked to her dad knight. He mentioned that her brother said (referring to me and his sister) that "the marriage was over years ago and I need to move on". But then again, he is just like her and his ex wife did exactly the same thing to him his sister is doing to me. He had an opportunity to save his marriage, but his stubbornness and pride prevented him from acting. She has the same personality as he does, so I am not holding my breath.

Love busters? Everything I do is a love buster. She hates the sight of me and can't even look me in the eye any more. I just keep my head down and mouth shut just to avoid ANY conflict.

After today I might have to amend my last post. I have had enough of the manipulation and said a couple things today. She needs SOMEONE to tell her what a vindictive (expletive) she is being. Not exactly an ideal Plan A, but I am only responding in kind when I do speak up.

On a hilarious note, I went to pick up the girls and noticed about $4000 in damage to the front end of her car. She hit something, I'm not sure what. Screwed it up real pretty. Needs a new bumper, hood, maybe a fender. I could only laugh because my MB-experienced friend told me that stuff like that would start to happen to her when her fantasy world starts to unravel.

She is a cheating lying [censored].
That's the truth.
And you need to keep your mouth closed in plan A and tell her that her looks nice.
I know it's not fair but that's your only chance.

Your words caused a big withdrawal last night.
Let's work on making deposits from now on. Can you do that?

She was already seething because I was late. This has been going on for over a year. At some point I had expected her to soften up but she has not. I really do believe she is going to ride this train all the way. Like I said however many pages ago, this woman has apologized to be maybe twice in 11 years. She has never held herself accountable for her actions, ever. She is going to change now? Why?

She isn't going to change now.
She's in love with another man and in the fog.

If you can't deal with the terrible stress of plan A then you should plan B.
But plan A is your only hope of winning her back and t that time MB program will address her refusal to apologize

Let me show you what I said to her via text. It wasn't necessarily a super-damaging love-busting thing, I don't think, it was just a slice of honesty that I felt I had to get off my chest. I haven't told her about how I felt about all this in a long time and needed to let her know. Keep in mind the extremely one-sided divorce settlement that left me with nothing.

I was late picking my girls up at the business, and she texted me that I was selfish because I was disappointing my girls because they were excited to go to church with me. Between you guys and me, I had a huge brain fart and thought that next weekend was my Sunday.. the weeks have been blurring together. Maybe some of you can relate. Anyway, she had texted me earlier and I had that "oh crap" moment and got my butt out the door as fast as I could.

So I am selfish, okay? I took a bit of offense to that because I have said yes to every single request that she has ever made with regard to my kids. She accused me of making excuses to get out of seeing them, which is exactly the opposite of reality. So she is calling me selfish for being late, right? Contrast that with some of the things she has done: Lie, cheat, file for divorce, take everything I have worked for, taken all the time away from my kids that I can never ever get back. And she calls ME selfish. Unreal.

So I texted her what was on my mind...

"I am selfish? Are you kidding? Maybe one day years from now when you've finally grown up, you will realize what you've taken from me. I'm not talking about the house or the business. I don't care about that stuff. You are selfish beyond comprehension."

Maybe a tad harsh, but not necessarily untrue. It's the most I've said to her in weeks. I am hoping it will make her think about what I might be telling her. The biggest thing that breaks my heart is the time that I am losing with my girls. I feel like I am being robbed, and all the days and weeks that are adding up I will never be able to get back, no matter what happens. I am sure she thinks that maybe I am 'getting what I deserve' in exchange for whatever resentment she has built up, but it is in no way a fair trade. Not even close.

So I hope you understand why I popped off a little today. I have been exercising incredible restraint. Even so, I think I kept it somewhat civil, all things considered.

What do you mean the MB program will address her refusal to apologize?

She is a selfish pig.
But don't tell her that!
In the future PLEASE do not respond to text messages without posting here for advice first.
The other posters and I can give you responses That would HELP plan A and make love bank deposits.
Your responses are shooting yourself in the foot.

The MB Recovery program is a program where she WORKS to earn forgiveness.
It is NOT a "forgive me I'm sorry program. "

It is a program where forgiveness is earned through "just compensation"

Oh, that would be the truth. believe me. But I would be very surprised if she ever reconsidered, even if I executed a perfect Plan A. You're saying that she would be aware of the MB program and willing to participate at that point, right?

I came up with a graph the other day of what would need to happen. I think visually a lot since that is my line of work



-------O-- = marital bliss, constant love bank deposits

----O--X-- = typical marriage

-X--X----- = marriage totally broken
(1) (2) (3)


Now, I am on the bottom line (step 1), she would have to start on the middle line (step 2) and travel all the way up to the top line just to drag me back up to the middle (step 3). Then from there maybe we could end up somewhere above the middle line and stay there. Common knowledge to all you guys I'm sure, but I thought I'd share it as a visual aid since some people learn easily that way.

Radio Clip of BlindSidedNM's Call
Segment #2
Segment #3
Segment #4

Eventually her affair will die. Most die within 6 months of exposure. Only 5% make it past the 2 year mark!

Here's another way of loOking at it:

Your LB balance with her: -$25000
OM LB balance with her: $50000
Last nights text to her withdrew another $500 from your account
She is romantically in love at $40000

As conflict occurs in the affair (which is inevitable) OM will make demands of her, and disrespectful comments. Each one withdrawals $500 from his account. He can try to make up for it by talking with her (meeting emotional needs of conversation) but makes small deposits, meeting this need may only deposit $25 a day.

He will make withdrawals faster than deposits and she will fall out of love with him.
At that time she will compare and contrast between you (father of her children) and him.
You want her to see a GOOD image and option of returning to you!
You need to communicate that you are sorry for the mistakes of the past and MAKE the changes she wanted to see during the marriage. Make the changes NOW!

I was talking with my MB friend today, and I had an epiphany. Not a good one, either. It is speculative but it makes sense. I think there is a real possibility that my wife has been talking to the OM since August 2010. That's the first time he was in her business and is likely when they first met. She got pregnant with our little one in February of 2011, and was not happy about it (if you can imagine). Some time after that she declared the marriage "over" even before our daughter was born. I think there is a real possibility that she started her affair with this guy while she was still pregnant. She was very distant during that time and we didn't talk about things very much. I did not want to upset her during her pregnancy so I just tried to be nice and supportive, but she just didn't soften up at all. I hope I am wrong but wow.. if I am right it would be quite a slap in the face.

Perhaps a DNA test is necessary to put your mind at ease.

No, she is my kid - she looks just like me. I don't think anything happened before she got pregnant, but it disturbs me that the affair could have begun when she was pregnant. It just makes it all the more sinister.

Blindside,
You need to decide what you want to do.
If you want to win her back, you need to follow Dr Harleys advice and perform a stellar Plan A.

If you are through with her, then you should enter Plan B.

You need to direct your emotional efforts into one of these plans.

What do you want to do?

I don't know that I have a choice. As much as I resent what she did to me, I can't ignore the fact that I think about her all the time and imagine things being fine, and every time I see her it takes me back to the first time I ever saw her and knew that I wanted to be with her. Our girls deserve to have their parents together, too.

You do have a choice take some time and figure out what you want. Waffling and being a part of procrastination nation won't help.

That was a figure of speech. Of course I would choose to restore my family. I wouldn't be here otherwise, right? Anything other than having my family together just doesn't make any sense to me.

Okay.
Then you need to focus on plan A.
From now on, can you commit to posting any text messages you get from her before responding to them?
This will allow experienced plan A warriors to help you write a response that makes deposits, not withdrawals

Sounds good, except there's usually an hours-long lag between posts. She's going to want a response right away. =o\

Generally, I respond with yes/no answers and avoid conversation. Should I be more conversational? I've found that when I am, it often opens me up to either criticism or other negativity from her.

Yes if possible you should be more conversational.conversation is a top emotional need.
She doesn't need an immediate response unless it's an actual emergency

I'll be picking up my girls from day care at 1 today and taking them to the exchange point at 5:30. Most likely nothing will be said. Not sure how to handle these exchanges since she typically doesn't say anything or even look at me. Last time we had some words and the looks she gave me could kill an executioner.

Wow. So I go to the preschool to pic up my girls as usual, and the xW didn't leave the car seats. She is demanding that I buy my own car seats now, and she wants me to sign a parenting agreement her lawyer drew up. I don't know what you all think about those, but I am real hesitant to sign a contract that limits when I can see my own kids. She is using them against me, which sickens me to no end. It seems she is still in some kind of retaliatory phase. wanting me to pay for something SHE did I just don't get that.

Keep in mind that I have been unemployed this whole time. I finally start a job on Monday, but I'm not going to be rollin in it, either. I have a LOT of things I have to catch up on and necessities to buy - new clothes for this job, tires for my truck, etc.

Slight threadjack: shouldn't your signature say "divorced May 2013"? I've been re-reading your thread and you were not divorced when it started.

oops, yes. Typo.

Regarding car seats call the welfare department.
Sometimes they give them away free.

Local Salvation Army as well.

I should be able to afford them since I start work on Monday. I was hoping that she'd start to see how insane she has been and not make me get them. I am really beginning to believe that she isn't coming back. I read the thread by.. can't remember his handle.. the guy whose wife cheated with a Muslim guy and moved overseas. She woke up rather suddenly and was probably more far gone than my xWife. Hope is the only thing I have left right now.

His poster name is justthe3ofus

Here justthe3ofus's thread

His radio clips are in there also.

That's him. I'm hoping my situation turns out like his. I can't imagine my XW actually wanting a relationship with someone like the guy she is seeing. I have a feeling that he will start to back off now that she's more likely to push him for some kind of commitment. Speaking for myself, I certainly would not want to get married again having gone through all this. He just had a hearing in January and was ordered to continue child support. Another marriage is not likely in his plans. Maybe this will be a point of conflict for them.

Anyone want to point me to some other happy ending threads? I need some freaking hope today. I'm all out.

Here.
Two Years ago.......

Thanks, Brain. You're always there to respond. Remind me to buy you a drink if the sky ever turns blue again. Right now I am buying myself several. I hope I don't do something stupid.

My xW has a knack for gut-kicking me through our 4 year old. As I was buckling her in to her car seat, she declared "Mommy said that you're not going to see me any more." Yeah, buddy. What a way to wrap up a Saturday with my girls, right? I wonder if the alien's lawyer has another play on the white board. I can't wait to find out. That was sarcasm.

Bartender, another please.

Drinking isn't going to help you, my friend. You should stop and go home and fine tune your actions to your WW reactions and your plan.

I agree. Friend please do not go down the drinking path.

We are here for you.

I am home, at least whatever passes for "home" these days. Home is where the heart is, and this place aint it. I haven't been drunk in years so I'll probably just fall asleep anyway.

I'm glad some of you had a SO who has a conscience and emerged from the fog. Unfortunately I don't think I'll have the same happy ending.

O sure there is going to be a happy ending, if you follow things around here. What is your definition of success?

I think generally here the definition of success is recovery. Either of the marriage, or of the individual. Of course there are plenty of recovered marriage, but start looking out for the recovered people!

You are only just divorced. Your kids are shell shocked. Your 4 year old is probably scared to death she is not going to see you anymore, and as the divorce is fresh, so are emotions. Assure her that you will make sure that you will see her.

I'm still divorcing, still not done, with an absolute gem of a WH. But I'm recovered. Individually.

You have to grief about the loss of the marriage. The 5 stages. Let yourself go through them, experience and express them. Trust me, over time it lessens, and I bet a year from now you will be a totally different person. Stick around, look at the other forums!

I'm not accepting of the divorce in any way. This has been going on for almost two years and my views and feelings have not changed one bit. It's not that I am unwilling, I just can't do it. I had all my eggs in that basket and I will never get married again and likely won't even commit to anyone again.

Success to me is her waking up and wanting to reconcile. Anything short of that is failure.

Yes, that is completely normal to feel like that! You will go through denial, anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance. The first 4 will be pretty tough in the beginning. Big swings in emotion.

You are grieving, you are mourning what is lost and you want it back. Completely normal and completely acceptable. Really feel it, express it. Over the next days/months all these emotions will come back and forth. First intense, and then slowly less deep, less raw.

There is no need to 'accept' it right now, but eventually you will.

You can't control your xWW. Perhaps she come out of the fog, perhaps not. But if she comes back half heartedly and you built a crappy marriage, you'll go down the drain.

In the mean time, work on you, become the absolute best father your girls could imagine having! Focus on that, take parenting classes etc etc.

I may have a problem accepting it. Every time I have my girls, then take them back it leaves a huge gaping hole. I can't imagine that getting any better. It happens every time, and it has been going on a year. I'll be pushing daisies before I go through all those phases.

Of course it leave a huge gaping hole! Work on maximizing the quality of your time with your girls. Take cooking classes, do art work, even if you can only make sticks. My girls are currently really into doing combo-animals and drawing them (i.e. the zebra-poodle=zebradoodle).

Realize that for your girls you need to be emotionally available and a good father, that is what they need! Forget about 'accepting' just now, that will come. Of course you can't imagine it, the wounds are so raw. You are grieving. About a year out, I sat on the porch overlooking the yard and even though my life was turning absolutely the right direction, I became sad, but it wasn't of the same intensity as it was a year prior. And now? Don't care about the marriage, I would never go back. I'm ready to built a new life. Did I think I was going to be here back then, nope, so you will get better!

But your girls are grieving too! Focus on transitioning them as well. Focus on building a great relationship with them! Help them heal.

Excellent advice Pine.

Be the best dad you can be. Make it all about you and the kids.

I thought I was here to learn how to restore my marriage. I keep hearing about how the wayward wife will emerge from the fog and realize that she made a mistake and how things will turn around. Has that all been nonsense?

Nope.
It isn't nonsense.

You can not count on her in your future though.

Marriage Builders is the best chance to recover a good marriage but it isn't a guarantee.

The only guarantee is that if you follow it, eventually you, yourself, will be recovered.

Takes time. Oodles of it.

I regret getting married. You said that I can't count on her to be in my future, and it made me realize that I have never been able to count on anyone. Everyone in my life has always let me down. I'm not perfect and I'm sure that I've let people down here and there, but certainly not everyone all the time. My faith in humanity is pretty much gone.

Hello Blind,

I'm just catching up on your thread, and I'm sorry for what you are going through.

Your divorce went through fast, but when I was at the stage you are now, I too refused to "accept" the dissolution of my marriage. I went to a priest for confession as I was guilt ridden over the things I did to cause my wife to lose her love for me and abandon the family. The priest was very helpful in helping me to see that while it is ok to grieve the loss, I would have to come to an acceptance and not be burdened by guilt or things I cannot control. He told me to choose life basically.

Regardless of the outcome of your relationship with your Ex Wife, you have make life-giving choices for your child and for you. Getting a new job is a terrific first step. Congratulations.

Don't give up hope, but don't depend on expectations. You can't control your ex-wife but you can follow Dr. Harley's program and take what you learn to become a better husband in the future, whether it is in reconciliation with your Ex Wife or with someone else. The important thing is take care of yourself and your child.

I am the one you referred to earlier in this thread. Like you, I thought that my wife was gone and would never come back. Seems like a miracle to both of us. We have restored the love we once had and things are better than ever. The point is, one never knows what can happen.

Since my wife has come back, I've had people ask me how we were able to reconcile. Those who ask are people associated with my job, and they are folks who are suffering through marriage crises. I work in an environment where there are a lot of families. I am not in a position to give them advice because of my position at work, but I always refer them to Dr. Harley's books and to this Web site.

As many here have said, recovery from divorce is a process, and it takes a lot of time. Regardless of the outcome, if you follow through on the Marriage Builders plan, you will come out stronger and better.

Best to you!

I was encouraged by your story, especially since I needed a boost that day. You were fortunate to have intervened early on in your wife's affair. I wasn't as fortunate, and stood by and hoped for some kind of miracle when I knew full well that she was cheating on me and there was no way I could prove it. I did nothing, thinking that all I needed to do was to get a good job and she'll start treating me better, we just have to get through this recession and the business will turn around, etc. Weeks turned to months. It was always something that I was waiting for. I was not proactive at all. In fact, when I did decide to be proactive, she shut me down at every opportunity. She changed the locks on the house, threatened to call the police when I refused to leave my own house, she filed for divorce, got a restraining order - all to thwart ANY attempts at reconciliation.

So here I am, still waiting for some kind of miracle. I'm the biggest idiot.

No you are not an idiot. But we can not change the past. We can built a future. You don't know what is going to happen. You can not control another person, but you have full control over the success of your life. And it starts with you.

Keep talking to us. Your feelings are valid, you are grieving, we're here to listen. And then make a plan to get your life back on track!

Regretting your marriage..... nope, don't do that. At worst, it was a learning experience. Faults have been made, improvements can come, you can become the better you.

You can recover. Who knows what happens with xWW, but you will become a catch for any lady that is out there.

Felling of helplessness tonight, and a bit of anger because of it. My 4 year old is at the mercy of her mother, fighting something - probably strep throat again - with a 106 degree fever. And what can I do? Not a damn thing.

106 warrants a docters visit and you can be there. So be the father you can be, and be at her dr's appointment

Yes that's dangerously high. You should be there I haven't been following your story there isn't a restraining order is there?

The restraining order is in place until she has it removed, as far as I know. Yes, I should have been there, but I am not going to risk it. My daughter has a history of high fevers, and I had the same issue as a small child.

I offered, but she was on her way out the door. I expected her to wait until morning but she did the smart thing and took her immediately. I offered to watch the little one but the route she was taking didn't come by my location.

This morning when she dropped our daughter off, I came out and asked her a question, which I never do. Usually we void each other. I am going to ease into Plan A a little bit.

I don't know. people. She asked me if I would take the girls overnight this weekend and of course I agreed, like I always do whenever she asks me a favor. I put the girls' bags in her car when I dropped them off just now and noticed a bottle of wine or vodka (could be either) on her front seat. Looks like the heavy drinking is still going strong. Not sure if I mentioned it before, but she took up drinking about a year and a half ago since her enabler friend is a party girl, and the OM drinks a lot. Not that we never drank, but it was rare, and I can tell you that she has gone through more vodka in the past 18 months than I have in my entire life.

On another note, she read-ended a truck with her fairly new car last week. Messed the front up pretty good. My 4-year-old told me that the 'police checked her neck because she hurt it'. I am betting that she was texting and hit the guy. I'm sure she got at least one ticket out of it to go with her speeding ticket from a few months ago. Living fast, baby. I wonder what will happen next.

It sounds like the karma bus is coming behind her.

Did you document everything? I think with all her continued contact to you that you should be able to show enough cause to have that RO dropped.

I'm just cooling my heels for the time being, being Mr. Nice guy. Her behavior toward me is still very resentful. She is rid of me and got everything, so why would she still be resentful? I thought she'd be HAPPY. She told herself she'd be happy without me, and I'm sure all her friends told her she'd be happy. Where's the happy?

Just a reminder to those of you following my story. It has been over two years since my xWW said she was "done". It was shortly after she got pregnant with out youngest daughter. I don't know how long after that she met OM, but still, it has been over two years.

Any ideas about my chances of her waking up and changing her mind about everything after all this time? She has followed through with all of her threats so far.

Have you read this on resentment?

Resentment Type A and Type B

Also about your question on whether your WW will ever wake up. No one can predict the future and no one can control another.

You can only control yourself.

So why don't you continue to work on yourself?

How is your self-improvement going? How is your time with your kids? How is your new job? Have you picked up any new hobbies?

Also since your D, have you thought about going into Plan B with your WW to protect yourself?

Brain,

I don't know if her resentment falls into either category. I don't really understand it. She acts as though I do not exist any more unless it concerns the exchange of the girls. While we were married, I never disallowed anything she ever wanted to do with friends, and neither did she. Both of us were more content with staying at home (or so I thought). The core problem with our relationship was that she was not getting enough intimacy from me, and the reason she wasn't was because I kept my distance from her because she was always angry with me - for not showing her affection. It was a vicious cycle that we'd break once in a while when she'd FINALLY talk to me about it once every 4 or 6 months. Even though we'd talk, I could never get past her abusive treatment of me when she was feeling resentment for my not having sex with her often enough. I told her a dozen times that I need to feel like I have an invitation to initiate sex, and with her attitude, it almost never felt that way.

I don't know if I mentioned before, but I have Crohn's disease, which would knock me offline with regard to lovemaking, sometimes for a few weeks at a time. Other times it would affect my comfort level during. She would get resentful during those times, then when I'd start to feel better, she'd still act angry toward me. I don't know how many times I tried initiating at night, and she would just lie in bed without moving or saying anything. It felt like I was trying to make love to a corpse - it seemed like she'd get passive aggressive out of her resentment. So I would back off again.

he bottom line is that she refused to have an adult conversation about this issue, and hen I'd try to explain my feelings to her, she would just say "Well, I do that because you do __________ ." She would deflect blame back onto me. Then she'd end the conversation with "All you have to do is f*** me more and everything would be fine." Which of course is not true. It would do nothing to change her treatment of me. I could never push past the vitriol coming from her to feel attracted enough to have sex. She is a good-looking woman, but when someone acts like they want to punch you in the throat, and look at you with that glare that says "I hate you", guess what? It kinda kills the attraction,. She didn't care. It was MY job to service her at least X times a week, and if I didn't, she was angry. I just don't possess a rapist mentality, ya know? I need to feel desired in the same way she does.

So now she's getting her fix with some other dude who probably DOES have a rapist mentality. Meanwhile, our girls are suffering, I am suffering, she is suffering financially. I figure something has to wake her up one of these days but it just isn't happening.

Sounds like you are holding on to your 'vision' of what she once was. You know...looking at her through your minds eye in a way that is not real. Maybe you are making her out to be something she is not.

You are clinging to the past in an unhealthy way. Maybe it is time to close that chapter of your life. What you describe in her is extremely unattractive (from the outside looking in).

I know she is the mother of your child but why besides that do you want her? Is it just because you can't have her that you want her?

She is not the person you thought you married. You know, there are millions of other women out there. Why don't you have a look see? Date a few and see what happens.

I'm good, thanks. I have yet to find a woman who hasn't betrayed me. I'll find a hobby or find someone who is fine with a casual thing. I did the marriage thing and that didn't work. Never again.

Interesting. The xW is going to her parents this weekend and just asked me if I could take the dogs while she is gone. I thought I would mention in here and see what you all had to say about it. She did mention that she tried getting other people to stop by and feed them, so I am guessing I was her last resort.

Update, if anyone is playing along at home. The xW canceled her trip to her parents because she could not find anyone to watch the dogs, and one of her employees can't work Saturday so she has to cover for her. I would have watched the dogs but this isn't my house and I was asked not to have them here. Just a little passive aggression between my parents and the ex.

But it seems that her worlds is less than rosy right now. Where's the OM? Why can't he feed the dogs? Hmm, I wonder. I doubt she'd take him with her since she has never even mentioned him to her disapproving family. Also, the business is hurting right now. She's losing her grip on that and she's asked me to do some work on the website (which I built). Asking me to watch the dogs, work on the website... what next?

I thought I was history.

How did you find all this out? Do you still have a PO against you?

As far as I know the RO still stands. I still talk to her father regularly, and that's where I get some of my info because she talks to her mom (but still not her dad)., She asked me to watch the dogs (bot not at her house). Then she asked me to either give her the password to the website login or make the changes. I know that she doesn't have the money to pay someone to make changes. The guy she had in mind to do it before would only screw it up. I'm really not knowing what to make of this.

She also asked me to watch the girls tomorrow since she can't go out of town, which is nice for me. She has to work to cover for someone who decided not to work Saturday or something. She is a bad boss - letting her employees do whatever they want, take whatever time off they want. It's a wonder the place is still in business. I know it is hanging on by a thread.

Another weekend with my girls, another Sunday night depression after I drop them off with their adulterous mother. I'm just waiting these days, and nothing happens. She is still seeing the OM, and heard from my daughter that they all had breakfast together Saturday morning. How nice. I heard that he may have moved in, but a 4-year-old's testimony isn't all that reliable.

So the affair is supposed to fall apart on its own eh? It has been probably 18 months (at least) since she has been seeing this a**hole, and it looks like it's till going strong. With my luck they'll be that 1% success story. I sit here with nothing but empty time to wait until I see my kids again. If I didn't have that, I would probably shut the lights off.

I've about had it with this waiting, and I have thought about moving out of state. Historically, I have cut all ties with exes and have never spoken with them. It is just how I deal with that situation best. I can't do that here, though, because we have kids. This depression will last as long as this goes on like it has. I really don't feel any acceptance or any of the other "stages" of the alleged process yet, so I am wondering if it would be better if I just bailed and moved to another state and let the OM take over daddy duties. I've thought about the permanent solution as well, since I really have nothing going for me right now.

The xW once told me that "if you had f***ed me more, I would have worshipped the ground you walked on". So it seems that as long as someone is fulfilling that need for her, she will worship him. Doesn't look good for me. I would lay odds that she never comes around. I don't think she is in any fog - she knows exactly what she's doing and is simply a selfish person.

Sorry man but I'd say move on. Don't give up on your kids but find someone more deserving of you. My W doesn't want me either and there's nothing you or I can do about that and there comes a point where we just have to accept it and pack it in IF that is thw case. A year from now we may be happier than ever at least that's what everyone tells me and I believe it. It takes two to make it work otherwise both of you will be miserable.

You have to understand that I waited a long time to find who I thought was the right woman to get married and have kids with. I do not, and have never understood how people can get divorced unless they have really tried to work things out and it is the undeniable last resort. My xW did almost nothing to remedy our issues, which she never really told me about to begin with, at least not the severity of things from her perspective. I had a female friend tell me today that she thinks that there was some other issue that she had with everything, and she didn't want to tell me for some reason. Why else would she just cheat on me without really putting forth any effort? Yes, I read HNHN, but it still doesn't make complete sense to me.

Blindsided,

With the great age difference between you and your exWW, I wonder if you are not putting too much emphasis on physical appearance which blinds you to defects which would be obvious otherwise. You mentioned that all your previous partners had cheated on you.

God Bless
Gamma

Not sure what you mean? Emphasis on her appearance or mine?

Not all of them cheated. The first long-term relationship I had was pretty good. We were both in college. But the economy struck again, and I moved to another state with the plan that she was going to follow me after I got established and we'd get married. But after I moved and before she joined me, her father got sick and died rather suddenly. She stuck around for a while to help her mom out, which was the right thing to do, but the relationship suffered and basically just fizzled out.

The ones who cheated: One was bipolar and we had kinda broken up anyway. We agreed to continue the physical part of the relationship, which was the really good part, but she ended up sleeping with an ex and I just lost respect for her because she left me high and dry waiting for hours at her house while she was out with him. NOT cool. The other one was a really good relationship, and I thought it was going somewhere. But I figured out that I was rebound guy and she just wasn't ready to settle again so soon after getting divorced. She said one thing and did another. That one I had a very hard time with. She ended up marrying the next guy she dated. WTF. It seems like they've all cheated, but I think the fact is that I should have been more wary about the situations I was getting into.

I'm in hell with this one. There are two little girls involved, which to me means that you do everything you can to work it out, ya know? Everything. I haven't had a good night's sleep in a couple years.

Well, today is my wedding anniversary. I guess "former" anniversary, since I've been discarded like a used tampon. Would have been 11 years. My ex wife's sister and her family are visiting her (not me) from the next state over. After I dropped my girls off, I happened to run into my former brother in law at WalMart. Interesting conversation. Seems that the adulterous boyfriend spent the day with all of them on the 4th. Isn't that just super. The ink isn't even dry on the divorce papers and she's introducing this POS to her family.

By the way, I couldn't sleep the other night and googled him to see if anything new would pop up. It did. Turns out that Mr. 'I Have No Problem Screwing A Married Woman 10 Minutes After Her Husband Leaves While His Kids Sleep In The Next Room' joined a local singles meetup group. Whatever for, I wonder. Why would a guy who is screwing my ex wife be joining any singles groups? Isn't he happily in a relationship? Sure he is - she seems to think so.

If I wasn't curious about how this turns out I would paint my bedroom with my brains right now, because I sure as f*** feel like doing just that.

Your daughters need their daddy. No matter how [censored] this all turned out, your girls need you. You will be their rock. Things will fall apart for your XWW. As it already seems to be since POSOM is joining meetup sites. Do what you can legally to protect your girls. Repainting the walls with your brains will not be protecting your children.

The only person you can fix is yourself.
That's it.
She WILL not last with the boyfriend. Dr Harley already said that he was certain of it.

Her family sounds like a group of [censored] to break bread with this guy.
Your ex wife's brother should have tossed his glass of beer in the guys face and told him he will never be accepted into the family.

But life isnt always just.

I think you should plan B and focus on yourself. Maybe see a counselor
For help moving on and starting over

In fairness to her sister and her husband, they were visitors and they didn't really have a say - he just showed up. They are very Christian and very passive. I probably would have opted to keep the peace myself, whether I approved or not. Maybe say something later, especially since there are 4 children in the mix. Now, on the other hand, my ex father in law has stated in no uncertain terms that this POS is not welcome in his home or in his presence.

Good for your ex father in law.

Anyone still watching my thread? No one is interested, probably. Nothing new to report. Ex wife's affair still going strong. Had to hear about their latest day trip to the lake from my 4 year old. Yay for the ex wife.. looks like she met the man she was 'supposed' to be with. A man who has no problem screwing a married woman.

Been at this job two weeks now. I get up at 5:30am, take an hour train ride up and back, get out of the parking lot at the train station at 7pm on a good day, and I am exhausted. I haven't seen my girls during the week since I started, and I am not sure if I will be able to, unless I tap some kind of energy source I didn't know I had. I can't handle these hours, and I am getting sick of people telling me that TGHEY used to work that early and THEY did this and blah blah blah. THEY have not had Crohn's disease for the past 20 years, either. Insensitive a**holes. I literally have 2.2 - 3 hours a day at MOST to eat dinner and do whatever before I have to go to bed.

I don't even know what to do these days. I almost started crying in front of a packed train full of strangers last week. Nothing is getting easier. I have a friend who keeps telling me that "God will bring your family back together", but yeah, I am not really buying that.

Have you been to see your doctor recently?

How long did you get to see your 4 yr old for this weekend?

Hey... chin up! Look for another job or maybe move closer to work? Brainstorm solutions. Take your focus of the ex WW and onto yourself and your DDs. I know it is not as simple as 1,2,3... but you have to believe that things will get better. H0PE. We all need it to get through the tough patches of life.

No health insurance.

Answers first: I had my girls two weekends in a row for Saturday/Sunday. But that's only because my cheating ex wife had a guest in town and wanted to get drunk with her. Another job? Nope. This state is really bad - no jobs anywhere. The only reason I got this 6-month contract was because I went to the state department of vocational rehab to get some assistance with hearing aids (I am 40% hearing impaired, on top of all the other fun stuff I've gone through). Since I qualified as "disabled", my resume fell into the hands of someone in the capitol and I got referred for the position. Had it not been for that, ol' creepy [censored] cracker here would still be unemployed.

New developments: CEW (cheating ex wife) is having serious money problems. Who would have predicted? Oh, that's right - I DID, back when she threatened to divorce me. I wonder where Mr. Super Lover is with his financial help. Ya know since he 'loves' her and all that. Her car payment is overdue, she can't pay the cell phone bill, I can't imagine where she is with rent for the business.

This is really sad and indicative of how evil she has become: She texted me today regarding our three dogs. Two of them are 12 years old, the other is a rescue and a lot younger. The one dog she fell in love with when he was a puppy before we were married and she had to have him. He has been with us since before we got married. I haven't seen any of them since Feb 28th (see signature). She texted me today telling me that she has to find homes for them because she can no longer afford the vet bills or the food. She asked me if I wanted them before she located other homes for them. Unbelievable. I'm not sure if she is for real or what.

Thoughts?

If you contact your county Health Department and tell them "I don't have insurance but I have crohns disease and I feel depressed" they can direct you to a free clinic.

How did you respond to her text message?

I responded the same way I do all of her text messages that have nothing to do with our kids: I ignored it.

I have no free time. None. I'm not even joking. In a week and a half I will have to miss a day of work to take care of three appointments. I won't have any time for anything else that day.

Good.
But If you want the dog then take it.

There are 3 dogs, 2 of which are 12 years old. Boston Terriers (high maintenance). I think maybe she texted out of anger because she had to drop $50 for a bag of food today instead of being able to make her car payment. But hey, this is HER show, it's what SHE wanted. Happy happy.

I am tired and want this nightmare to end. I've come to the conclusion that either I get my life back with my family, or it ends. I really have nothing that I look forward to any more, nobody gives a crap and there's no one to share anything with. Seeing my kids once a week is nothing short of torture. I can't do it.

I'm very concerned for you.

Please call 911 if you're contemplating hurting yourself.

Can you contact your friend?

What friend? The one whose wife woke up and came back to him and lived happily ever after? That aint happening to me. All he does is give me crap about "not being ready" and "God will bring your family back together". A load of crap, all of it. I don't think it should hurt at all, really.

Blindsided,

I am so sorry for your pain! I know how isolating these situations can be. UGH....you are NOT alone! Many here have experienced this, as well as the unhelpful or unsupportive advice from friends or family in our lives.

Take care of you now. Can you talk to your Dr. about some AD meds to help you through this?

I don't have a doctor because I do not have health insurance. Believe me when I tell you that I am behind the 8 ball in every way you can think.

There are free clinics out there and also physicians who have fees on a sliding scale. Ask around.

This is excellent advice BlindsidedNM.

Will you do this?

I have no free time. I have no energy. I have a chronic incurable disease that keeps me from being able to do things I'd like to do. Oh yeah, another thing I'm sure the ex wife hated. In sickness and health my [censored].

Maybe you should just go to the ER at your local hospital tonight. Explain your situation and feelings. They can help you now without insurance.

The free clinics that are near me, have hours after 5pm. Many physicians have hours after 5pm. Many ER's at major hospitals do have different programs available for those without insurance. There are patient assistance programs available if you cannot afford your medications. Just because many doctors have hours 9 to 5, does not mean there is nothing else available after those time. It is worth checking out. Again, ask around. Call a doctor, tell them your situation, you might be surprised with some great news.

BlindsidedNM,

While the Marriage Builder's website cannot become involved in threats of this kind, please know that your pain is taken seriously. Please contact a suicide crisis center in your area, call 1-800-SUICIDE or call your family physician.

We do care! Get someone to help you tonight!

Edited to add=====

Beginning February 1, 2013, the New Mexico Crisis and Access Line (NMCAL) will be available statewide, helping New Mexicans get access to local help and resources during a mental health crisis. The line will be available statewide and toll free at 1-855-NMCRISIS (1-855-662-7474).

Really, if I were going to do something, I probably would have done it already. I did not mean anything to seem like 'threats'.. I am just expressing the absolute pointless emptiness that this whole ordeal has given to me. Do I feel like repainting my walls? Hell yes. I fully understand why people do that. It is a catch-22 because the fact that I have kids prevents me, but if I had no kids with this cheating POS, she would be the fossil of a memory by now and I'd have moved on. It's the fact that I failed my kids and I hardly see them, and that they will never have the life that I wanted to give them.

I am so sorry, blindsided. It is absolutely outrageous that you don't have your kids at this point. I hope that as time goes by you will be able to continue to be in their life and hopefully eventually be with them more often (or all the time). I was able in my parents' divorce to eventually swing things so I was just with my father and not with my wayward mother at all, and I understand now just how fortunate I was.

I came here to find out how I could save my marriage. My friend who used these resources seems to think that my WxW will still come around. I think he is out of his mind because I don't see it happening. But he went through it and seems to think that he knows more than me on the subject. I don't know what to think any more and nothing is helping. I just hope the POS OM screws up pretty soon and she wakes up.

Have you read Dr. Harley's Surviving an Affair?

I am about 3/4 through it. It takes two to survive an affair. She's still having the affair.

Exactly.

Marriage Builders is 100% successful when both parties are doing the work. MB, if followed, will recover yourself also. If you truly apply the principles you will recover yourself, but you must do the work.

In SAA, Dr. Harley says that most affairs die a natural death. A very minimal make it past 5 years.

So what better for you then to work on yourself? Be the best dad you can be? When is the next time you will see your kids? What can you do when you have them to be the best dad you can be?

You continue to make excuses about why you can't do anything.
If there is treatment available for your depression and you choose to not get treatment then you will never feel better.

Doctor visit aren't free. Lab tests aren't free - colonoscopies and all that fun stuff are very expensive. I don't have health insurance, and I have so little free time. How much work do I take off to get all this stuff done? This is a new job, I can't just get sick and knock off a bunch of days to go to doctors' appointments. I have been unemployed since 2009. It's called "sucking it up" like everything else I've been told to do about everything that I'm going though.

Well, if you were jack-knifed in the middle of the road and had 2 broken limbs, you'd be in the hosptial. How would you pay for that? What would your employer say? Come on...stop with the "I can't" statements and internal dialogue. You can, and you will.

Let me repeat...you CAN, and you WILL. There is no alternative. You get up and get going. Cry through it, but you get up and keep moving. I am tiring of this pity-party.

You are better than this crap sandwich you are eating. Spit it out.

I have 20 years experience with this condition. I know what a doctor can and cannot do. There are things I know about this disease that some of my past doctors didn't know. The meds I am on some of those doctors have never heard of. So when I tell you that I am wasting my time, believe it. I am not feeling sorry for myself. I have priorities, and wasting an entire day at a clinic is not high on the list. it is what it is and it sucks. If I DID have insurance, I would be aiming much higher, like having surgery.

I have a life long, chronic disease and I managed it at free clinics and health department assistance for a while. Was it optimal care? No. Was it my usual standard of ivy league medical school clinic care? Not by a long shot. Did it keep me moderately healthy so I didn't do any long term damage? Yep! Did I stay on the drugs I prefer that work best and cost $$$$? No, I was on the minimum standards of treatment, generic drugs, and I survived.

FWIW, I have Lupus with spinal and brain involvement, kidney, heart, lungs, and liver issues, RA, Bechets, Migraines, and Trigimenal Nueralgia. I'm not an easy case.

I did order another round of meds from an online pharmacy I have used before. I was wishing I had ordered some hydrocodone the other day, too.

More medical problems, maybe? My 4 year old was running and jumping, and I'd catch her in mid-air. She went into the other room and started doing something else, and I was looking down when she assumed I was going to catch her again. I never saw her coming, and her knee plowed into my eye. It felt like I took a fastball to the face. I was on the floor for 5 minutes at least. Well, I have some vision loss in that eye in the periphery. I thought maybe it was temporary but I just got up this morning and it is still there. It is one of the symptoms of a detached retina. Super. I do have a followup eye doctor appointment this week, so I think I'll have him take a look at it with his contraption.

Otherwise, the xWW's affair is still going strong as far as I know. Oh, sorry, it's not an "affair" any more since she's not married now.

Took the girls back to the POS xWW. Had them two nights and two days. Depressed as hell, as usual. I can't keep doing this to myself. xW looked all happy as usual. I'm sure she is convinced she did the right thing. I wish I'd do a James Gandolfini or something and wake up.

So when does the OM bail, exactly? Still waiting for that. Am I supposed to be doing anything to sabotage their relationship?

Why are you expecting him to bail? Are you expecting him to suddenly have a change of mind so that your WW has no choice but to return to you? I wouldn't count on that.

Blindsided, I would suggest you begin the process of building your life sans your wife. It would be wonderful if everything in their adulterous relationship fell apart, but it isn't healthy for you to build your life around the hope of that.

I'm sorry.

I thought this was "Marriage Builders" Not "Accept Your Fate". I need to know what I should be doing to get her back. It has been 5 1/2 months since discovery, and she had been seeing him for at least 6 months before then. I didn't come here to get all this "Just deal with it" advice - I can get that from absolutely everyone around me.

This morning my 4 year announced that they had stayed at OM's house last night, as is their routine. So obviously that is still going strong. I also noticed that the xW left her phone on the front desk of 'our' business while she was outside pulling the car seats for me to use. I took a little peek and she had a picture of a bible verse open that someone had sent her. It was Philippians, didn't have time to see what verse. Interesting that someone is sending her bible verses since she obviously doesn't believe in God at the moment. I'm wondering if one of her enablers is twisting verses to help her justify her actions.

Time heals all wounds - that is baloney. I still feel all the pain I always have. It would be so easy if we didn't have kids, but I can't prune her from my life because we DO. I am a very black-and-white kinda thinker. All or nothing, ya know? I'm not one if these shallow people who can remain 'friends' with their ex, especially if they've done something like she has. I made a commitment, even though she apparently did not. I meant all those things, and she did not. This is not something I can just "get over". There are not enough years left in my life for this to get better. She has stolen my family from me, continues to steal my daughters' childhood from me (and me from them), and it is not something that I can forgive if things don't change.

I am not friends with my stbx and never will be.

Adultery and the fallout has been a horrible thing to live through. I have chosen not the live in the anger or bitterness. It will not change the past, it will only make my present and future miserable for myself only.

Have you looked to see if there is IC in your area on a sliding scale? There are many that are non-profit and are willing to work with patients. Contact a local clinic and ask them.

I will be praying for you.

The problem is that I have to see her cheating POS face every time I pick up my kids. I can't even look at her, and she always avoids eye contact with me and never speaks to me. I am not angry, but bitter.. probably. I have nothing except a job that uses every ounce of energy I have so that when I do see my girls, I am half asleep and sick all the time. Then my 4 year old has to open her mouth and inform me that they were all at OM's last night and oh what a fun time that was. It's a continual thing that I can't escape. I am never going to get over this having to see her and hear about all that.

How's it going?

I don't know. I am working all the time and have so little free time during the week that it seems like an eternity since I've seen my girls. I still think about having my family back together all the time. I don't know how people get past these things. I did talk to my FIL the other day. xW's mother came to visit and I heard that she did not get introduced to the OM, so I don't know if that is good or not. Her mother is as tight-lipped as she is about everything.

Health-wise I am doing better. Meds finally got here Monday and I was back to work Tuesday. That stuff is like freaking magic.

Still miss my kids all the time. I had a woman tell me something today after I told her about what happened. She said "When a woman tells you she is done, it means that she was done a year ago." Not exactly a morale booster. I do know that the xW is having serious financial trouble, as I told her she would. She has been asking me for help, but I just started working. When I say "help", I mean she has been telling me that I need to pay for half of preschool and other stuff. She also booted my cell phone out of the company plan so I had to get my own account. I need to save a bunch of money to rent a house and buy all new furniture and kitchen gear. I wonder if she even thought of any of that before she decided to cheat. Maybe she expects me to live in a cardboard box.

I'm beginning to think that there is no recovery from divorce. I guess Dr. Harley doesn't address that, right? It's gone too far and there is no recovery. I guess I'm done here.

Don't pay attention to what the woman said to you about woman who trash their marriages. That is just blabber.

You do need to stop thinking about recovery and just focus on surrounding yourself with people who are interesting and kind and fun. Find them. Thinking about recovery is exhausting and doesn't effect your future chances of either recovering or not. It is pointless to obsess about it. Release control of the outcome.

Certainly there is recovery after divorce. Dr. Harley does discuss it occasionally. One thing he mentions is that people who remarry their original spouse actually can have wonderful outcomes.

You need to stop ruminating about the divorce and try to contain what love bank balance your ex still has in your love bank account for her and meanwhile reach out to your children as much as possible to let them know you do love them and that you are one heck of a father.

Financial stress and the fracturing of the family certainly doesn't help getting the momentum to move forward but with the medication you can hopefully see some possibilities you wouldn't otherwise see.

As far as I know, the account is empty and has been for years. There is no way of making any deposits until her fantasy life falls apart, which appears very unlikely.

I made a decision today. When I drop my girls off, I will not see them again. I have had to hear about the OM from my 4 year old for the last time. I hear about how nice he is, how much time he spends with them, all that. Since he spends more time with them than I do, he can be their father. They are young enough that the younger one won't remember me at all, and the 4 year old will have vague memories at best.

I came to this site so that I could figure out how to repair my marriage. It did not work. There is no alternate plan for me. Some of you can "deal with it" and "get over it" - I can't. I am not wired like that, I guess. I made vows that I intended to keep.

I put that extra copy of Surviving an Affair in my girls' bag so their selfish cheating whore mother might someday read it and figure out why I did what I did. For the next 10 or 20 years, I just don't think she'll get it. I just can't do this any more.

Cheers.

You are punishing your girls for being kids and prattling about their lives, not realising how this hurts you. You can't shut them up so you are punishing them this way. You are saying "if they like him so much they can have him". They don't deserve that.

He isn't and can never be their father. He will at best be a stepfather and as such, someone quite likely to harm them one day. You are putting your pain above their needs to have you in their lives.

How horrible.

How cruel for your kids.

Really..........get a grip on your self focused angst and

PUT YOUR KIDS FIRST.

Yes, you feel devalued and put aside BUT

your children did not do that. They are innocent people trying to make the best of their sad little lives with Mom who has OM involved in their lives.

You be a bigger guy than that.

Don't you dare threaten to abandon your children. You made them and they are YOURS.

She took them from me and they are hers. We just see things differently. I am a glorified babysitter, that's all.

By the way, if she wants to give me full custody and [censored] off, I would be okay with that. But she continues to steal all the time I should be spending with them when they are little. All that time is gone. I cannot wrap my head around that and accept it.

No, they are not hers.

They are hers and they are yours.

Both.

Glorified babysitter? Nope.

Father.

When you do spend time with them, just breathe calmly and cooly when they mention OM. Breathe and then hug them for being the best kids in the world. They are your children. You do get to see them. When you do, parent them by telling them how precious they are to you and how you love being with them.

Set the tone for a good relationship into the future with them.

Wow!!!

What you're doing to your girls is flat out wrong.

When they are older they will know yes their mother cheated.

Yes their father abandoned them.

She has to answer for her wrongs.

YOU HAVE TO ANSWER FOR YOUR WRONGS. WHAT A SHAME!!!!

It seems to me that not only are you accepting it, you are signing, sealing and approving it!

Any time I've tried to assert myself, I've been threatened with the police, I've still have a restraining order in effect. I cannot watch my kids grow up with someone else. Sorry. if you want to call it selfish or whatever, then so be it. I cannot get past it. I've tried, and I can't do it. I am the POS a-hole everyone thinks I am, so why dissappoint them?

This is another reason why you should have exposed the affair to your DD4 and others on OM's side.

This is New Mexico. This kind of behavior is normal here. It would have had zero effect, believe me. I hate this place with a passion. We had been talking about moving before all this, but yeah, kinda hard to do when you get your feet nailed down by a divorce. Besides, why would she want to leave now since she found her soulmate here.

Also, I have been isolated by EVERYONE as though I am the one who is at fault. My own family doesn't speak to me any more.

What has any of this to do with abandoning your kids?

What has any of THAT to do with abandoning your kids?

*moral courage*�is the ability to�act rightly in the face of popular opposition,�shame,�scandal, or discouragement.

BlindsidededNM, I encourage you to to not give up on yourself or your children. You have been given a raw deal and are emotionally defeated. You can give up or pull on your boots and keep going.

Okay, you got that out. I can't blame you, being hurt and frustrated. Let's talk about it again over the next few days. See if you are still in the same frame of mind. I don't think you will be. I don't get that impression from you. I just think you are hurt over...everything. The loss of your marriage, the innocent comments of your daughter. I'm sure you're hurt over the loss of what was, and having to deal with what is. I don't get the impression from your posts that you're going to toss away your children.

Take a breather tonight, friend, and talk to us again tomorrow.

I'm not hurt and frustrated. I am dead inside. I have nothing to look forward to when I wake up any more. I am not depressed - I've been through that and now I just don't care.

The whore ex cheater POS said something to me when I dropped the girls off. apparently my 4 year old blabbed something. I had told them that OM was their daddy and I wasn't going to be seeing them any more, which is the truth. They are better off. Everyone is better off when I am no longer a hindrance to their happiness.

NM, if you are sincere that you wish to relinquish your parental rights to your children, for God's sake do not share that information with them. Do that legally through the courts. You are setting them up for a lifetime of abandonment issues. You're treating them like possessions - "Here you go - they're yours since you don't want to be married to me."

No, I still believe you are hurt and are lashing out at your ex-WW for her terrible decisions. If you were dead inside, as you claim, you would have NO reaction to anything that your little girl so innocently said. No, I think you're pissed off and hurt.

Don't shoot yourself in the foot. And don't harm your girls.

Talk about this later. Not tonight. Maybe not tomorrow. CALM DOWN.

Do you attend church? I suggest you go to one and get involved. I get the feeling your doing all this for some attention from your ex-wife. You know its wrong but your throwing a pity party and hurting your kids while you do it. I get it life is hard you didn't get what you wanted, things are not going your way but to abandon your children is a little extreme.

I don't know if you read other stories here, you should it can be really therapeutic to see folks from all over going through the same stuff. Helps keep me grounded in a sense. People don't give children the credit they deserve. Here's an example: my DS5 had his tonsils removed I took off work to care for him. I cook, clean, helped him brush his teeth read stories, etc. It was alot of work and I got frustrated. Not at my son but I was powerless in the situation and in my WW's lack of care as she is still with POSOM and only called to ask how our son was doing.

I kept thinking if my family was together this would be easier. It's all WW's fault. Then I stopped and thought about some of the things I learned in anger managment, about how anger is a choice. I applied that and other motivational things. My favorite is the civil rights movement how people who had rights had them taken from them and how they fought to overcome. Anyways today my DS said this and made it all worth it. He said Daddy, your always taking care of me when I'm sick. Mom doesn't all she cares about is POSOM. I love you and your my best person in the universe.

That's why I say stay in your kids lives. Show them how you should act when things aren't going your way. Seems you didn't so a proper exposure, what's done is done. Everyone have regrets when they go through infidelity. Don't let yours be your children because of your brusied ego and pain. God bless and I will pray for you tomorrow at service.

Hi there Blindsided,

I read your story and I can feel the hurt and pain in your words......no one blames you and have felt that ourselves through the process of infidelity.
Your kids are so young and they don't understand what happened......You are their Dad and no matter what the POSOM does or says nothing can change that in their hearts they have learned to love YOU.
You don't want to be that man that hurts them for selfish reasons their mother already did that as they age they will figure that out themselves stay in their lives be that positive place that soft place they can always land, in the arms of their father.
Be that person they can always know won't hurt them.
If you walk they will hurt they will always wonder what they did that you aren't in their lives........they did nothing their POS mother did.........
You are letting the affair control your life and the lives of your children, that is just plain wrong in everyone's eyes.......including your kids.
Life hurts if you let it Blindsided........you can control you and your children's lives you have that power do not give in to that POS relationship your POS wife has chosen.
Look around you, see the good see the opportunity and make your life better, you are not locked into this life only if YOU allow it and that is what you are doing.
I know it hurts but if you look around about what is good in you and in your life the possibilities are endless and changing you for the better will show you there is life after divorce with your children.......
Show your kids what is right from wrong and what it is to live with morals and right thinking, don't run from that yourself........stay strong.....look around at the positive say yes to opportunity.......re connect with people you have lost through all this....
Affairs don't last the stats show this.........
Someday your kids will say something to you like Tranquil's did and your heart will melt and you will know hanging in for them when you weren't that strong was worth it, God is showing you that direction pay attention don't miss the opportunity ....
What you don't know is what your children are saying to the POSOM about their great dad...........when my kids were in school I was always surprised how much they talked about us and wrote about us.........they love YOU ...........don't forget that important part in all this........you are going to break their hearts.......
don't be like their mother.......they deserve better and you deserve them.........I agree with MaritalBliss get some rest and I am sure you will feel differently ........

SInce you first came on this forum, you have consistently refused to take responsibility for any of your actions or lack of actions.
You consistently make excuses for why you can't do anything and it's always portrayed as the world against you.
You can expose because of xwz. You can't visit your kids because of xyz. You can't see a doctor because of xyz.

Only you have the power to live a happy life sir

I did not cheat, sir. I did not break up my marriage. When I was unemployed I watched my kids ALL DAY, EVERY DAY, and overnights on Saturday so she could go stay overnight with the OM (before I knew). I tried to get my wife to talk to me many times but was always countered with the threat of police, and then she got her lawyer to get a restraining order. Then recently I got a job which has me away from here from 5:30 am to 6:30 - 7 pm. Sure, there are a few hours left in the day where I could see my kids, but I AM EXHAUSTED. Why? Because of my DISEASE, sir. I go to bed at 8:30 at night, because if I don't get adequate sleep, I will GET SICK. These are FACTS, gleaned from having had this disease for 20 years. I know what it can do to me if I let it, and I know what a doctor can and cannot do for me. People like you and my ex wife wave them off as excuses, I guess. I am just being a big baby.

There is a difference between a reason and an excuse. There are only so many hours in the day. There is only so much strength in my body and there is nothing I can do to change any of those. The things I CAN do I am doing.

I wish I could come on this forum and report happy events that occur that would galvanize Dr. Harley's reputation as a marriage miracle worker, but that's not happening. I am getting worn down by all this, emotionally and physically. I don't have a lot left in me to give. I wish I woke up every morning with a sense of hope, but I just don't any more.

At least let your children know about your health issue and how it exhausts you.
How you want to be with them much, much more but are having trouble and trying to keep strong physically.

Arrange to skype them. To call them. To be with them as much as possible.
When you are with them, let them feel precious.

They are.

They are 4 years old and 22 months. They don't understand things like that. They should not be going through this at this age, or any age. Try to imagine all the things I am missing with them - the days that they are little are very short. It is literally driving me insane.

They would understand that. (I am an early childhood educator who works with ages 6 weeks to 5 years).

Find a way to be a wonderful Daddy to your children and you will be able to keep your self respect and hope by doing so. Find a way to shorten your workdays if necessary to be there for them because one day, when it all falls apart over there, they'll need you.

It's not going to fall apart over there. It has been two years and things are as good as ever. I am the one who is falling apart. I can't do it any more - I don't know how plainly I can put it.

You need to find another job. Or take a pay cut, cut your hours - your priority appears to be Job First, Kids Second. Do NOT throw your children away because your work schedule isn't convenient.

Let us know about your disease. We may be able to help you.

I'm sorry, I missed this post.

Okay. Then YOU ARE DONE WITH YOUR CHILDREN.You have NO PLAN TO CONTINUE YOUR LIFE WITH THEM.

Is this correct? If so, proceed post-haste to court to relinquish your parental rights. Let those little girls go. I hope to God your WW has some semblance of parenting.

**edit**

I HAVE to work at this job. it is the ONLY thing I have been offered since 2009. I have no choice. The reason I am so exhausted is partly because I have a one-hour train commute each way. I cannot give up this job for anything. I have far overstayed my welcome at my parents' house. They have threatened to change the locks. They have never been very good parents, and they are extremely selfish. Probably where I got a lot of my undesirable outward behaviors.

Believe me I have been looking for another job but there aren't any. As it is, this is only a 6-month contract. I'm trying to save as much as I can so that when it does end, I'll have enough to live on for a while.

As for throwing my children away... I have been thrown away, so what comes around goes around I guess. Do you know what else? If my whore ex wife hadn't done all this, we could be doing pretty well right now. Our financial situation would be much better, and I would be seeing my kids every day rather than losing my mind when my daughter prattles on and on about the OM. I can't take that.

I have Crohn's disease. It is unpleasant and incurable. Whatever help I can get I am getting. it is something I have to live with, and wasting time at support groups is not going to cure me. I don't have the time to spare. Depression is very common, and I am no exception. I try my best to put on a happy face and work things out, but certain things just push me off the edge and I lose it. Depression because of an incurable disease, then heap on adultery and divorce, and never seeing my kids.

Do you know what would change my life? If my ex wife came to me and told me that she made a mistake and wanted to work things out and really meant it. As much as I cannot stand to even look at her, I still have the knowledge that it is not entirely her fault, and because of that I would give anything to try to make things right. But yeah, we all know that is never going to happen. Every time I watch my girls, I hear another story about how they stayed overnight at OM's house, and how he stays over with them and gives them ice cream and on and on. It makes me want to punch out because that was supposed to be MY life. He is stealing my kids' time from me and I can't even tell you how that feels. I cannot ever accept that as something that was "meant to be".

She already got them in the divorce. You are disgusted with me? Join the club - my ex wife is the president. I disgust myself. I disgust my parents. I disgust everyone.

Good luck, NM.

A reminder to posters to keep your posts respectful and helpful to this poster! Thank you

BNM, I am sorry for your trials and want to make a few suggestions. Right now, it seems you have a couple of very toxic factors in your life that make it hard for you to move forward and find any peace. That is pushing you to the point where you want to make mistakes that you will regret for the rest of your life, namely giving up your girls.

I think you would feel much better if you:

1. get away from your parents

2. arrange weekend pickup/drop-offs of your daughters so you don't have to see your XW or the POSOM

I think if you do those things, while finding a social circle that is more supportive to you, that you will feel better about all this. I promise you that you won't feel better by giving up custody of your kids. It will ADD TO your regret and resentment. This scumbag will not be in their lives for long and when he dumps your wife and your little girls get older, they are going to need their daddy. *YOU* are the only man in their lives that really cares for them. Even though they don't realize this right now, as they get older, your presence in their lives will become more and more critical.

You will not feel this bad forever, but giving your children up will haunt you for the rest of your days. NO MAN can ever take your place as their daddy. NO MAN cares about them as much as you. Make no mistake about that!

BNM, are you on anti-depressants?

This link from web-md has listing for places that can help pay for your meds for crohns.

http://www.m.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/cd-help-with-drug-costs?page=1

Another from the crohns forum that lists links for financial assistance.

http://www.crohnsforum.com/wiki/Prescription-Assistance-Programs-Financial-Assistance

I want to apologise because my posts yesterday were very hard on you. I don't think that you should ever stop seeing your girls, and as ML said, if you continue to be an active father to them, you will be the one man in their lives who looked after their welfare when their mother's affair is long over. However, you have lost almost everything through this affair and I am sorry, for that and for speaking harshly to you.

I would also like to extend my apologies for being harsh BNM.

I've tried to help from the very beginning of your thread and will continue to lend support, friend.

Please stay in your DDS lives.

"If you're going through hell, keep going."

Winston Churchill

Look up Jordan Rubin. He has Crohns disease. Currently he is living happy and pain free.

While I'm not facing what you are, I can tell you that if you stay in your girls lives, when they are older, they will be able to see the difference.

My ex-wife got primary custody because she was a stay at home mom.

Ten years later, my daughter has turned the parenting time on end, spending the vast majority with me.

Who cares if you win in the courts or not. The court that matters is in the hearts and minds of your daughters. Be the dad they need you to be and they will see it. It may not be today. But when they are 12-16 years old, if you have established a consistent pattern, and your ex-wife continues to be the selfish wayward, they will see it.

But it's slow. Many times I simply wanted to give up. Stay the course and you will prevail. Children see far more than we give them credit for seeing.

You can win where it matters, and that's in their hearts by being the father they need.

No problem you guys. Trust me when I say that you can't dole anything out that has been more cruel than my xW. I have a thick skin... with most things.

I'm not, and to be honest I am afraid of those. I dated a woman once who was on them and uh... let's just leave it at that, mkay?

Super day - I caught my 2 year old's snot factory back-to-school virus.

There are several good ones that won't make you so flighty that can help you get through this. You have been hit so hard for so long that I think you would really, really benefit from them. They would take the edge off your pain and help you make better decisions. One of the milder ones that Dr Harley recommends sometimes is Wellbutrin.

Can you look into that?

That makes two of us! Still ran 5 miles though felt like hammered dog manure. Instead on focusing on the bad in your day say something positive. You never answered my question. Are in a church at all?

Yes, I go to a large, non-denominational (southern baptist affiliated, tho), non-judgmental church that I like. My kids like it also. I didn't go yesterday, but I can watch the service online. I have not missed a message in well over a year.

Does your pastor know of your troubles? Did your WW attend this church as well? My church was instrumental in my lifestyle change in general.

They do, and they are too big to really do any one-on-one. I talked with an associate pastor and the couples pastor, but they kinda told me what Dr. Harley says - can't really do much when she is in an affair and unwilling to work toward reconciliation.

Is there anything I should be doing to expedite the failure of the affair? It has been going on for 2 years, we are divorced.. I don't know what to do here. The weeks and months are going by, my kids are growing up and I am not there to experience it, and nothing seems to be happening.

I'm not familiar with your thread but did you expose to all the people that are listed in Melodylane's exposure thread? Might be too late but what could it hurt? I would also suggest you sit down with your eldest child and explain what happened and why mommy has a boyfriend. Break down in kids terms and keep your cool.

My oldest daughter is 4, and she will actually argue with me about the OM. She likes him. I'm sure he's a nice guy on the surface, but he is a POS for tearing my family apart. I exposed to everyone I knew and she knew on Facebook, but on his side I did not expose because I didn't even know who he was until I hired a PI, and even then his FB account privacy levels are high. I still don't know who his family is, other than the names of his kids, and I am not going to drag them into this - I am not the same POS that he is.

I do know where he lives.

My ex wife's grandparents were married many years and it was an affairage.
A small number of affairs do last.
My ex wife is also going on a little more than 2 years in her affair.

You are NOT helping to kill the affair by maintaining cOntact with your ex wife.
As I recall Harley advised you to have No Contact with her.

In an affair, conflict arises and the wayward will begin to compare the OM to you.
She thinks that you are the father of her children, while OM will question why he's helping to raise her kids. He will get bored with her; if she can't pay her cellphone bill she probably can't afford to go out much.

During this time you need to make sure that you aren't causing love bank withdrawls through demands, disrespect, anger.

For starters I suggest you stop referring to her as a whore on this forum.
It would not help your struggle if she came her and read that description; instead refer to her as ww.

You really need to have No Contact with her.
However prior to doing that I suggest you do a 2 week plan A.
Can you do that?
The idea would be to build up love Bank deposits, then pull the rug out from under her feet with a Plan B letter

You need to go very dark and end all contact with her. Find a way to exchange the kids so you don't have to see her and the OM. By staying in her life, you prop up the affair because as long as the subject is BlindsidedNM aka satan incarnate, they don't have to look at EACH OTHER.

You need to also STOP focusing on her affair. It may never end. All you can do is remove yourself from the trauma. If you will do that, you will start feeling immensely better within a few weeks. You won't feel so traumatized and paralyzed with despair.

One of the things that is happening is the she has isolated herself from her family members who she knows are not on board with her actions. Her family (except her brother) are very Christian people who were completely surprised by her actions. She has not spoken to her father since last Christmas, I think. She didn't call him on his birthday, she has completely ignored him as well.

Her parents are driving through this Friday, and they are going to stop. He and I have been talking all along, and he says he is finally going to say something to her and remind her how she was raised and what the bible has to say about what she has done. Don't think that I have nuanced this relationship with her father to get him to side with me because he has chewed my butt plenty of times over things I've done also. But the bottom line is that he is against divorce, and her getting bored and having an affair is not a scriptural reason to end a marriage. Especially with 2 little kids involved.

Like I said, I did toss a copy of SaA in the girls' bag, so we'll see if she reads that or tosses it.

As for going dark, it is next to impossible because we have no common friends any more and no family around who would be willing to act as the nexus. We typically make the exchange at the business we built, and she used to hide in the back while I picked the girls up so I didn't have to see her. Nowadays she is more brazen and comes right out and makes sure I can see her and she often will park right next to me.

Are there other employees there who could take the kids in when you drop them off? I wouldn't give up so fast. Start really thinking this through and find a way to do this so you don't have to see her. For example, could the 4 year old bring the little one out to you and vice versa? Could an employee come out to the car and get your kids?

She could park in back, bring all their gear in and put it up front, then let the girls wave at me from the door. We used to do that at first and I'd never see her.

Some churches will offer child exchanges.
My grandmother used KMart parking lot for exchanges years ago.
As I recall OM works at the business so I would try to get away from any exchanges there.
I would ask your church if they could handle the exchange

My church (used to be ours, but she hasn't been to church in a long time I wonder why) is way out of the way. The OM does not work at the business. I have not seen him since Feb 28th - discovery day. He has managed to avoid me, which I think is a good idea.

It just gets better. I can a text from the xWW showing me a letter from some state agency threatening legal action for not paying child support. Keep in mind that I just started working, and I need to accumulate some money to get out of my parents' house. When I do get a place to live I probably won't be able to pay my own bills and pay child support at the same time. So I guess I get to live in a crappy studio in a bad part of town (or maybe in a jail cell) so that she can continue her charmed life with the cheater. Everything I did for her and our kids. This is how I get rewarded. You wonder why I feel like tapping out.

OK, you need to go see a dr for your depression, it is very clear you are depressed! You need help!

It is normal, it is part of the process, but you need to get out of this!

Do you have an attorney?

I'd be spending every penny I've made since I got this job on an attorney. Anything I do I am stuck in a catch-22.

Are you paying any CS at all? Even if it's a small amount? Do you give her any money for your DDs?

BNM,

I would also strongly repeat Dr. Harley's (and MelodyLane's) advice about antidepressants. When you don't see a solution to your problem, a good antidepressant can help you find one.

My dad was in your shoes many years ago - and I'm happy to echo the comments of others that one day, your children will understand the truth.

I'll look into the antidepressants. Any suggestions? I am going to look up contraindications for the meds I'm on now.

So my ex FIL is passing through town this weekend, and on Sunday he is going to stop at my xWWs house and try to talk to her. So far she has not spoken to him in almost a year, and she refuses to speak to anyone in her family about me. She knows that no one is on the same page as her, so she avoids it. It HAS to be wearing on her since she hasn't seen her family all together in probably two years. I'm hoping he can at least crack her a little bit and let her know that she is still not getting any approval from them. They are (dare I use the term) hardcore Christians, so I haven't had to do any persuading to have them see things the way I see them.

Still trying to figure out how to apologize for last weekend so I can have my girls this weekend. I know how to eat foot, that's for sure.

Prozac, Celexa, Zoloft, Lexapro, and Wellbutrin......all good choices and are available in generics (some are on different pharmacies discount plans). Talk to your doctor and like you are doing, double check the contraindications.

Cymbalta.......only as a brand, good but very, very expensive.

Talk to your doctor about antidepressants, I know people who take Paxil and Cypralex, they say it woks very well. They feel better and more alive, thier memories have gotten much better and they cope much easier with everyday life. I am not sure how CS works in the States but here in Canada you pay based on your income. If you were not working then you do not have to pay, however, I would try to start giving something if you are working now.

Interesting update. Last Saturday I put the extra copy of SaA in the girls' toy bag. xWW sent it back to me unopened. I keep telling my friend (whose WW came back to him) that my xW is NEVER coming back to me, but he still likes to blow sunshine up my butt and tell me that when the OM leaves her, she'll start to put things into perspective. But, the OM won't leave her, she will not see things any differently than she does now. It has been going on for over 2 years and there is no indication that it will end. She'll figure out all the things she did wrong in our marriage, and apply it to her new one and I will be left to rot from the inside out. It would take nothing less than divine intervention, and I have seen none of that in this whole situation. It's not that I don't believe in God, it's that I don't believe God gives a crap. I am starting to hate this woman with a passion.

I agree you should consider this a lost cause. That will help you accept the situation as it is and start making decisions about your future.

As far as God not caring, he does not give a crap, it is that he is not going to force your wife to do something against her will. He allows people to choose their own path.

Any update on those anti-depressants?

The problem is, I don't give a crap about my future any more. My future was with my family, as a whole unit. I think (I hope) we are in the end times. I really don't like it here any more.

You can't envision a future because you are DEPRESSED! This is why you need to get on AD's and cut off all contact with your wife. You DO have a future. It will not always be like this. What you have to do is walk yourself out of this fire. You can't give up. You have a lot to feel sorry about, but you have to walk yourself out of this fire mechanically even though you don't feel like it.

Feelings follow actions.....

When you are going through hell, you must rely on your intellect to drive you out of the fire. I have been in your shoes, except my child was killed after my husband left. Just keep walking forward, BNM, and don't stop. You may not see where you are going just yet, but soon enough you will see how far you have come. It won't always be like this.

It has been over two years. Nothing has changed for me. I've gotten over relationships before, but this is different. I told you all why - because my kid's childhood is being stolen from me. All the days and months that I should be watching my kids play and learn and grow up are being stolen from me and I will never get it back. I am frankly getting tired of everyone telling me that "it gets better" because THAT will not get better with time. I will only lose MORE of that time that is most important to me.

This is why I am suggesting you try something different. I know nothing has changed for you. And this relationship is unlike any other, it has been devastating. But you can live over it if you take a different approach.

You have lost your kids and yes, that is a tragedy. My son is dead. I will never get over that. But I do have a happy life. You can have that too.

Did you petition the court for equitable child custody when the divorce decree went through?

I know you didn't fight the divorce, but now that you are working, you can petition for your parental rights for a more fair visitation, even if you have to file Pro Se. The county law library and department of children and family services would likely encourage a father who desires to have more involvement in their childrens upbringing and welfare.

Were you ordered to pay child suppirt or maintenance to the ex-W?

If so, are you making the required payments?

Regardless even if you have not, or fell behind, that is not, in and of itself, a legal ground to deny or limit your visitation rights, but you must properly request them, otherwise the opposing side gets what they asked for.

LTL

I am thinking about hiring an attorney to get more than that - I want half of the business that I spent 2 years building for her. I want half of the house we lived in together for 10 years. I want everything I owned before we were married (judge gave her that, too). New Mexico is a community property state, yet the judge gave her everything. How does THAT work?

I did not answer the petition because the answer would have required me to either agree to what it said or disagree. I did not agree with one word of it for philosophical/religious reasons, so disagreeing would have meant a fight that I could not afford or want. But now that she has committed to this path, I am going after what is mine.

Maybe New Mexico has different procedural rules, statutes, or laws, but in my state, once a decision is rendered, either party has a strict 30 day time limit to appeal the ruling before the presiding judiciary.

A change in circumstances is a valid reason to petition for modification of child suppory and/or custody/visitation rulings.

Use your anger at your situation to pull yourself off of your self imposed pity pot and get proper Anti-Depressant medication. A self loathing, potentially para-suicidal parent will not be viewed in a favorable light to receive additional privileges. So Get On With YOUR Life immediately and be positive for your own well being. Now!!!

I wish you the luck and success you deserve.

Go see your kids and be their Father.

LTL

So I took a breather and tried getting my mind off things. A couple things have transpired since last time I was on. First, my ex FIL was at my xWW's house a couple weekends ago. He has not seen her since last year and talked to her maybe twice on the phone very briefly. The xWW has been avoiding him because she knows that he does not approve, will never approve of her actions, and will let her know. He is very much against adultery and divorce and prescribes to scriptural doctrine. Well, when he was there, he let her know. In fact, he used the OM's name in a rather derogatory manner, and she didn't even bring him up. He also told her that "Your ex husband wanted me to talk to you" which I wish he would not have said. I did say that I was a bit upset that he and her mother never said a damn thing to her ever. What if she were a drug addict, would they just sit back and watch her destroy herself without saying a word? Anyway, I digress. After he said that I asked him to talk to her (which I guess I did indirectly), she told him "That's not your job, that's HIS job," which quite frankly surprised me. MY job? I thought I was out of the picture, ya know?

So the other thing that has been going on is that she has been gently urging me to see my kids more. I actually took them to dinner tonight and I just got home. I am BEAT, and I don't think I can do that during the week with my schedule. If I don't get enough sleep, I get sick - t's that simple. Monday after work I saw my kids briefly when I went to the business for a charity event that we have hosted 3 years running. I have become friendly with the guy who we host, so I stopped by to visit a little. The xWW was there and it has been the first time that we have been in proximity like that in a LONG time and didn't pick up a lot of tension from her. She wasn't chatty or anything, don't get me wrong. I had been there maybe 90 minutes and I had to leave. When I did, my 4-year-old was beside herself. She was crying til she could hardly catch her breath. Before that, she asked her mother "Can daddy come to our house?" So I don't know - the xWW is feeling some pressure I am sure - from her father who she got NO approval from, from her mother who does not approve, her sister who does not approve, her brother approves, but he's an [censored] and never liked me anyway. His wife did the same thing to him, but that's his problem.

Anyway, the dynamic seems to have changed slightly and I am not sure what to make of it. The xWW has also fired off a few texts about random things in a very conversational tone, rather than the usual "I hate your guts" tone. She has also asked me to watch the girls when it wasn't my 'time' because she had some things come up, and thanked me after.

I hope this isn't her trying to be friendly exes, because that is not going to fly. I am relenting a bit to see what happens, but if she does not start talking about reconciliation, Mr. Friendly is going on vacation.

Also, the OM's name has not come up in conversation with the 4 year old lately, either, but his daughter has. 4 yr olds have an interesting concept of time, so I am not sure if that means anything. I've learned that "last last yesterday" could mean three weeks ago or 2 days ago. Again, I don't know if he is history or if my daughter has been coached to not talk about him.

I wish Dr. Harley got on these forums and helped with situations like this because I have no idea whether to stay Plan B or do a soft Plan A. Any thoughts? Sound like anyone else's experience?




Oh, on a side note, she informed me that she is closing the business and renting some space with 2 of her employees in another, cheaper space. I frankly don't care because that business has probably been the biggest cause of our problems. She'll make a lot more money, too. I just hope she keeps all of our equipment and finds a buyer or something. But she asked me to do website work for her (I built the site for our business). Again, I'm not sure what it means, if anything.

BNM,

I'm sure your wife is still with POSOM, but she's wondering now. Something is not right in fantasy land I'm guessing.

I have Crohn's, my wife is a cheater, I am a father. The best part of my life is the time I spend with those kids. I go to work, I deal with the pain, depression, and discomfort and everything else, I feel the hurt from what my WW does. I share some of your pain.

I wish I had better advice about how to end a divorce and reconcile with your wife. But honestly all I can say is wait it out man. Take care of YOU first, so you can be there for those kids. He's not their Daddy and never will be, and your wife knows that. Sometimes it's enough. When it happens go slow and follow the Plan. I can't stress enough to take care of yourself through this. I know from experience. Hell right now I'm staring down the barrel of the colostomy shotgun. It's frightening. And a WW doesn't help. When you're right with yourself and those kids though, the judge will see it.

I do encourage the Anti-Depressant meds, they gave me more energy, took away a lot of the stress, and I got more done so I could be daddy more often. You just have to get the right one.

Good Luck Man

Why don't you write him?

What's his email address?

You can write the radio show at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. Include your telephone number and they will call you to see if you'd like to get on the air for a conversation with them. Joyce will call you ahead of time to talk it over with you first and put you at ease. They can also answer by email, but it's often better to have a conversation with them so you can share more details, and they don't have to guess.

Wow, it sounds like you might have more drama than me, and I cna barely handle what I have. Sorry, man.

Which antidepressants did you settle on? I have heard so many bad things about all that stuff that I am afraid to take them. As for the crohn's, I feel bad for you. I've had the looksee procedure 3x and am probably due for another one. The drugs are fantastic, though. Depending on your condition, look into a drug called Entocort EC. That's what I have now and it works really well. Just don't stay on it for several years like I did - no one told me to stop taking it. The generic is called Budez CR and I get it from alldaychemist (website) since I have no insurance. It's pretty cheap there.

I'd PM you all this but it is disabled.

The most important concern is your mental and physical health. CAN YOU stay in touch with her and maintain your sanity and your health? If the answer to that is YES, the next question is can you be PLEASANT and avoid all lovebusters? Can you be around her without criticizing her and being ugly? Can you be pleasant?

If you cannot be pleasant and if your mental health suffers, you should go into a dark plan B. You have experienced depression and suicidal ideation in the past, though, and that is very concerning.

Can you remain in plan A? If you can, there might a chance you can make a difference.

The problem I have with any Plan A is the fact that she might still be seeing the OM. I honestly don't think anything will work. Even her father doesn't see her losing her pride and admitting ANY wrongdoing. She is THAT stubborn. I would be more comfortable with a Plan A if he was out of the picture.

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

Listen to Mel, she's right. You gotta keep yourself up on your feet, and with this crappy disease you know you gotta be well. (pun intended because I'm entitled to it)

You've got a chance coming at you soon with your wife, I can feel it. Now is the time to start a stellar Plan A. Show her what a great husband/person you are. But you really gotta drop the anger around her. You can vent here if you need to, but cool, calm, and collected when you face her. The courts will listen. They are changing and realizing kids need both parents. You'll get rights back. It'll take time. And if you do a good Plan A, your wife likely wouldn't mind some changes. Check out the county law library. Free meetings with reference lawyers and they will help you draft your own papers and get the right forms many times.

As for your questions:
The AD I took was generic celexa (citalopram). I knew it was right for me immediately. I had tried Prozac, but it just didn't do anything I didn't feel any different. The first dose of this hit like a ton of bricks, but after a couple days I didn't notice it as much. By weeks end I felt fine. Tons of energy, worked harder, paid better attention to my job, better memory. I was able to focus on me, my kids, and my daily activities, and not worry about all the crap I had being heaped on me by the situation. When I got off them, I just got off. No biggie. They are not forever for most folks. They are like crutches, once you're healed and have dealt with the problem you don't need em anymore. Just be done.

For crohn's a totally different story. I was diagnosed at 13 and have already had one resection. I do not look forward to the prospect of another. For meds, I was on prednisone, azulfidine, metronidazole for about a decade; was great for the 60's treatment methodology. Then mercaptopurine and budesonide most recently, also had proctocort, and mesalamine (YAY Suppositories) and some others in there somewhere. None of those are working for me right now. Surgeon said "Lemme cut you open and take it all out" to which I responded "Hell NO!". I began Remicade infusions on Monday to hopefully prevent me wearing a bag for the rest of my natural life. I had done it in the past but it was prohibitively expensive even with insurance. But it knocked me into remission for 2 years! The stress from this hell did me in though and I landed in the hospital a couple months ago. Luckily I have excellent insurance now. $30 co-pay is all according to the hospital. I also have the manufacturer's remistart program on standby if i need it. They will pay the balance of the medication cost after insurance if any. We'll find out when i get the EOB.

Brain, I've been on the show once already. I don't know how many followups they do, especially when things have gone from bad to worse. Not sure it makes for good radio.

I'm not too concerned with the legal stuff right now. I can tell you already that the xWW is trying to get me to take my kids more, giving me different reasons. I have them tonight, actually, because she allegedly has a 'lot of things to' before she transitions to the new space where she'll be working after the business is closed. Of course, she is probably lying. She likely has plans with OM. I know they all stayed overnight at his house last night, so that seems to be going strong.

I will mention that my friend's wife made her decision to return to him when things were going well for her and her affair partner. She had an epiphany and things changed. She did have a few relapses but ended up staying married and ultimately followed SaA and rebuilt the marriage.

Also, I'm not ignoring your crohn's discussion - It's late and I'm tired. I could go on an on about that and wouldn't mind PMing a side discussion.

As many times as you need.

Dr. Harley even encourages listeners to email him if they disagree with him.

NP. You've got bigger things to deal with that talking to me about something we both know backwards and forwards. So long as you keep it under control during this ordeal.

Can't move forward. I think I'll be stuck here forever. xW is still seeing the OM. STILL, almost 3 years now. WTF. What happened to this "affairs collapse on their own soon after exposure". BULLSH!T. Why do I have to be the lucky [censored] whose xW beats the odds? I swear my purpose is to be an example to everyone around me by waking them up with my departure. I really don't see any other path for me. I can't continue to be a babysitter to my own kids, going into the same depression after they leave week after week after week, and be kept destitute by the court system. No decent school for my girls, no normal childhood for them. I may as well lock in that existence and relieve myself of this nightmare at the same time. And no, I am not going to medicate this away with happy pills.

Can you discuss this with your Pastor?

You never exposed on OM's side and so exposure was never completely done.

Me) BH - age 49
WW - age 30
D - age 18mo; D - age 4
Married 2006
Divorced May 2013 - uncontested (she got everything).
D-day 28feb13 (suspected months earlier)

You rolled over and played doormat. Why did you not contest the divorce?

Why do you not get a husbands rights advocate lawyer and take this hose job of a divorce back to the courts?

You complain why me.

I will now complain WHY YOU did not do a full exposure.

Exposure is not full proof. That in itself proves why not all marriages are saved from an affair.

What is full proof is that when affairs are not fully exposed they are not killed.

You gave up the marriage by not exposing.

You gave away everything through the divorce settlement by not fighting.

You just give up. No one ever gets victory from giving up.

When you are done giving up hire a lawyer to amend the D settlement and expose OM totally.

Just for the satisfaction that people will know the damage that he did.

This is New Mexico - attitudes are different here, I am telling you. There is a lack of morality here that is astonishing. I exposed to her family and she is still seeing him - there is NO ONE in her family who is supportive of her decision. You'd think that alone would be enough to make her rethink her actions but it's not.

As far as contesting, I don't have the money. I have been at a contract job for 4 months and I need to get my own place this week before I lose my mind. Between that and child support that I owe I am going to be tapped out and living week to week like usual. One thing I have learned since staying with my parents is that my mother is mentally ill. Without going into too much detail - rather than being supportive, she has made my life a living hell with her controlling behavior, her OCD, and the passive aggression when I don't toe the line like some kind of slave. She treats me like I am 12 years old. No empathy whatsoever. And my father has two emotional states: Apathetic and angry. He has major anger issues that he has never dealt with. I talk to my xFIL because I can't talk to my own father about anything - he is not equipped to give any advice on anything

I wouldn't know who to expose to at this point. I don't know who his family is, except his kids. Who would care? His ex wife? I don't know who she is. I have to get to work so I'll check in later.

I and my WW are from NM. We lived there for 21 years and moved to TX about an hour and a half away from NM. Trust me, this program works and every action they tell you to take is correct. Your problem was that you let fear dictate your actions, its ok we've all been there and we've all felt that embarrasing feeling and that embarrassment with yourself of being scared.

Guess what? You lost everything because you let that fear dictate your actions, stand up for yourself, what do you have to lose now?

Took my kids trick or treating tonight - met them at the mailbox because I am not setting foot on my former property. Took them up the street and back, carried my 2 year old almost the whole way. Decided to be a little brave and walk them to the door. xW answered and they walked in. Interesting, though. There was a POS pickup parked in front of my house. I did some checking, and turns out the very same truck is parked in front of the POSOM's house on google maps. She has a lot of ****ing nerve asking me to take the girls, then having that POS in the house when I get back. Unbelievable. I am not in a good mood right now.

Interestingly, I talked to her father a few days ago and he mentioned that she had told her mother than she has no intention of marrying the POSOM. So what the hell is she still doing with him?

By the way, exposure after a year and a half? There aren't may people who don't already know. It obviously hasn't lifted any fog. I doubt that she was in a fog to begin with. She had told her mother a MONTH after we got married that she thought she had made a mistake. I never found this out until after we were separated - after 10 years and two kids. Her entire family lacks communication skills. Not one heads up from anyone, ever. Feb 28, 2013 was the day I caught them, the next day I posted on facebook for all of our mutual friends to see, and also told her entire family. What happened? Nothing except divorce papers. Nothing has happened STILL. This is a done deal, people, She is never coming back.

She probably doesn't know why she's still with him.
Dr Harley sould probably question what emotional needs the posom is meeting that keeps her drawn to him

I think leaving him would be to admit that she had done something wrong that needed fixing.

I think this is the case with all waywards who move in with their AP. Especially WWs, the POSOM does a good job selling a dream of how he is a good father, provider, etc. but in reality like we all know that isn't the case. They are deadbeat dads, players and the opposite of what they make themselves out to be. Foolish pride on the WW's part and lack of logical thinking prolongs a useless relationsh!t. Isn't pride one of the seven deadly sins? Just stay strong for your children.

I just don't think she ever wanted to be with me in the first place. I think the age difference started to eat at her brain after we got married. I also think her miserable, divorced enabler friend (who bought her birth control pills for her when I was still living at my house) told her that she should divorce me when the girls are little, that way it would be easier for them. Such good advice from someone who couldn't keep their own marriage intact. Like my FIL says, "Misery loves company."

Actually, let me amend that. I think my mother had a big part in destroying our relationship early on. We stayed with my parents for several months while we got on our feet (Never, ever do this under any circumstances). My mother is the most judgmental person you will ever meet, period. Everything out of her mouth is a judgment upon you that makes you feel worthless. I didn't realize how bad it was until I had to move back in while we were separated. She felt my mother's wrath early, and I think she started resenting me because of her.

In related news, I am moving out of this hell TODAY. My relationship with my parents is irretrievably damaged. I do not plan on speaking to them after I am out of here. I could open a whole new thread on why that is, but trust me - I do not need miserable, controlling, judgmental, selfish people like them in my life.

Good for you!

We went through some very similar stuff with my parents. They were very controlling and judgmental. Around the time we found Marriage Builders I started to realize that basically every time my parents were disrespectful to Prisca, it was making a love bank withdrawal in my account in Prisca's love bank, simply because I was associated with them. That realization made it easier for me to completely cut off contact with them when I learned that was Dr. Harley's advice.

It took about two years, but my parents finally gave us an apology and agreed to not be disrespectful toward us any more. We are now back in contact with them and it is like they are completely different people! There was a time when I thought I would never see them again for the rest of my life - I even remember thinking that if Prisca and I ended up divorced I still probably would not see them.

Some people rise to the occasion when you set the bar high, and some do not. We continue to be somewhat wary but so far they haven't said anything to us that we find hurtful. They are so much more laid back and accepting. But you have to place a priority on protecting yourself from harmful people. It is their decision whether or not to meet the terms of admission in order to be a part of your life.

The radio show where Dr Harley discussed your situation really stuck out at me.

If I recall correctly, he said most couples have an easy time solving problems until the kids come along and that in your M, your xW probably became very unhappy with the M after kids....because she had a different expectation of you being able to solve issues and problems as they arose vs working at solving problems together, like he and Joyce have grown up doing. And that this is very common in marriages like yours, where the H is older.

Anyway, glad to hear you are moving out!

Congratulations on moving out.
Its hard to start over i know but its baby steps (like in the movie What About Bob?)

I don't really care to start over, honestly. This feels like being led to the electric chair nice and slow or something. I understand how old people feel when they're sitting around waiting to die because they are forgotten by their own family.

Blind,

Consider Ecclesiastes 3 - A Time for Everything. You are going though hardship right now, but this too shall pass. As you transition to life without your wife, you must now rebuild and move forward. Many here have been in your shoes and have done just that with great results.

Author a new story for yourself and your girls. Let today be first page in a new book. God loves you. And you still have family and friends, right?

Don't wallow in the darkness of the past and let it defeat you.
Give your love to your children and make life-giving choices for them and yourself. Surround yourself with positive people, positive messages, positive music, positive activities.

My family has abandoned me. My parents have not been supportive, in fact my mother has gone out of her way to make my life as difficult as possible. My brothers don't call any more. I have one friend here who is semi-supportive, but he keeps telling me that if I do nothing and "put God first" then my ex wife might magically change her mind. I'm actually becoming more of an atheist because of this whole experience. I have some major doubts about any kind of "God's plan" BS. He thinks that just because his wife cheated in him, moved out, changed her mind and agreed to do the MB thing, then all women would do that. He says everything that happens to me "textbook" which does nothing to make me feel better about anything.

I just woke up at 5:15am. Alone in this house that is not my home. The first thought I had was that I wish I hadn't awakened at all. Most of the time I just don't want to be here. I'm tired of this life that has been a constant trial. I'm universally unliked and marginalized. I know it would mess up my kids, but the constant pain of missing all these days of their short childhood punctuated with the joy of being with them one or two days a week is killing me. I can't "move on" or "get past it". I'm not going to drug myself so those feelings go away, either.

To me there is a difference between "moving on" and "moving forward." When I was in your shoes, I never used the term "moving on," which I hate. You don't simply walk away from marriage like its no big deal.

But you do have a choice to move forward with your life. As bad as things are right now, there is life. And you get to make choices what do with it. You can focus on the ugliness or you can search for beauty. And it is out there for you. But you have to be willing to find it. Don't give up, Brother. This too shall pass.

I'm sorry you have no friends or family. Start fresh. Find wholesome things to do that will spark some enjoyment, pleasure, happiness. Build on the small positives. Once you can have a more positive outlook, your life will change in small increments.

Isn't it something like 70% of people or more eventually regret getting divorced? They wish they had tried to save the marriage? When exactly does that happen? 10 years down the road? 20?

How are you doing?
Will you see your daughters this weekend?

BlindsidedNM... I am not sure the exact number but it is something like 70% or even higher. I tried to fight for my marriage, all I succeeded in doing was bond them tighter to each other, against ME. The harder I tried, the further he ran. They live together now. His mother was in denial too, thinking this was all going to pass. He filed for divorce. His mother STILL didn't get it. I am moving on. I am not sure he will regret it. He swears he won't and that he's happy and all the times he said he was confused was a lie he told to keep me from being hurt. He said he will never regret this. I suspect he already does but would never admit it. That would be weak. And "him big strong man" lol... I wish him well in his life. I know mine will turn out fine with him and her out of it forever.

I've said it many times on here, but the hardest thing for me is not seeing my kids day to day. They are 4 1/2 and 2 now. I miss them every moment I am not with them. I am missing all the funny things they say and playing with them after work every day. It is not fair. The xW is giving my time to that POSOM who doesn't care about anything except a piece of A. I can't get a hold of her dad, either. I am wondering if he is just not answering my calls any more since he has spent a couple weekends up here visiting.

Her father may have finally accepted her adultery.
"Blood is thicker than water"
I see it time.and time again on this forum and in my own life

Place it in Gods hands.
Hopefully the Good Lord will give the posom a flesh eating disease that consumes his private parts first

So the xW sent me a picture of my nightstand that I used when we were married and asked if I wanted it. Not the move of someone thinking about reconciling.

Interesting exchange of the kids tonight. She parked right next to me which is rare. I pretty much ignored her like I always do until I saw that my 4 year old had a new stuffed animal. Of course I asked where she got it, and she said "My mommy said that I'm not supposed to tell you." Wow. So my kids are getting gifts from the POSOM now and it's being hushed up. That's not going to be too confusing for a 4-year-old. I got a little miffed as you can imagine but I didn't lash out or anything, and the xW immediately got indignant and started in with her usual demeaning talk about how I don't care about my kids, etc. She also mentioned that I have ruined her relationship with her father. Really?? I don't think so. He has told me in no uncertain terms that he is not in agreement with her actions and will not cut me off because of it since she brought me into the family. I am the father of his granddaughters and he considers me family. SHE is the one not talking to HIM because she knows she is wrong.

So she is obviously still angry with me about everything and still blames me for all of it. I told her that I was going to hire a lawyer and revisit the divorce agreement since this is a community property state. She then informed me that half of nothing is nothing. Apparently the house is still in foreclosure and she's only living in it until it goes to auction or something. I don't know any details. Too bad - I could make the mortgage payment, especially if I didn't have to pay rent on my own place. Looks like she is going to have to shack up with the POSOM at some point. What a couple books and some compromise would do for all involved, and she has no interest. I'm just this useless a**hole who ruined her fairy tale life.

As a sidebar to all of the problems I've had and the emotional roller coaster I've been on, I've been working on a project for about two years. I've been developing a product idea I came up with about 5 years ago and have gone through the design process and am in the beginning stages of prototyping. I have fab shops making parts for me and I have people interested in investing (although I doubt I'll need it). I can't disclose what it is - maybe there's a rule against peddling goods here, not sure - but suffice to say that if I reach my goal of having it ready for preordering by 2Q of next year, I could be doing quite well. I have a history of getting things done, so I am confident that I will get this thing launched and start another company.

Of course, in the back of my mind I will wonder if it will make me any more desirable to the xW. Sometimes I wonder why I even want to get back with her, but then I look at my little girls and I think of Dr. Harley's books and I know that it is possible.

If my math is correct, for every ~one~ unit I sell per business day, I will make about $500,000 a year, net. That's not a typo. I sound like I am bragging, sorry. It is about the only thing that gets me excited to any degree these days.

(I put up a big post on the previous page)

I hope she didn't talk to you like that in front of the kids because it will cause them stress.
The problem I see is that you don't operate with a plan in dealing with her.
You speak of attorneys , that won't bring her back to you.if you could avoid to direct contact with her that would benefit your children.have you ever seen a doctor for depression?

No. I am not a fan of pharmaceuticals. Although I am on some necessary meds for my Crohn's that has the added benefit of having euphoria as a side effect. It is mild but noticeable. I keep too busy these days to be too depressed. I really feel that whatever depression I do feel now is normal and not unmanageable. I'd rather not go through life numbed of emotions.

I know I should have kept my mouth shut about the attorney, even though I have been thinking about doing that. I don't know that it would do any good. Waste of money, most likely. It did cause them stress, actually. My 4 year old was upset and crying. But again - my fault like always.

She said another thing that blew my mind, too. At one point I said "I'm not the one who committed adultery", to which she replied "After I got pregnant, I told you I wanted a divorce, and I didn't start seeing him (POSOM) until after that."

Oh, I see, adultery is fine as long as you SAY you want a divorce and it makes it acceptable. She was with this guy for a YEAR before she even filed papers. Adultery is adultery, ya know?

Every time you speak, you should ask yourself: Will my words make love bank deposits or withdrawls?

Of course she is in the wrong.
My ex wife still defends her adultery (and still lives with him)
Continued contact with her is not helping your well being

She told me 2 1/2 years ago that she doesn't love me any more. You think that is ever going to change? She is obviously still angry at me after all this time.

Well you must ask yourself what is romantic love?
Its a full love bank.

How am I supposed to make any deposits when the POSOM is standing at the teller's window the whole time?

There are opportunities for love bank deposits during child exchanges.
How?
Through pleasant conversation.
Avoiding love busters.
No arguing

My ex FIL called me yesterday. Haven't talked to him in 2 weeks. He was at my former house helping the xW with some stuff. The POSOM showed up and introduced himself. He told me that he didn't put 1 and 1 together fast enough or he never would have shaken his hand. He told me he didn't say one word to him after that. Interesting that he called to let me know what happened. I am betting that the xW is pretty angry that her father isn't accepting the situation. She vented a bit of that like I described a few posts ago. Not sure if this good for my desire to reconcile or not.

Your ex FIL is a good man

I agree. He is an unwavering Christian who lives by scripture. That may not be desirable to some, but I am the same way. There is no gray area in these matters, to either of us.

I dropped my daughters off with the xW in a parking lot. As I was driving away, my 4 year old was staring at me with this look as thought I had driven her to the middle of nowhere and left her all alone. It was heartbreaking. That is the kind of thing that I can't take very well.

When will this selfish woman wake up?

I'm sorry.
She may never wake up.

I am beginning to think you're probably right. I feel so powerless to do anything to make my girls' lives normal. They get shuttled around from place to place. They have 3 beds (at least) that they sleep in. They should have ONE.

Do you have them this weekend?

The bed at your home......make sure it is super cozy and feels like a big, wonderful place to be.

Concentrate on the time WITH them versus the time apart.

Focus on them completely when together and be in the present at those moments.

You can do it.

Yes, I have them this weekend. I do concentrate on them when they are here and I try to fit as much fun stuff in as possible without overwhelming them (or me). This weekend is going to be a quiet one at home because I am not feeling well. We will go to church and have pizza after like we usually do.

SOmetimes I wonder if it affects my xW when I have the girls, if she misses them and has any perception of what all of this is doing to me or them. I doubt it. I think for her it is an opportunity to be carefree and go scru the POSOM all weekend. Remember, she got ANGRY when she got pregnant with our 2 year old.

Don't worry about what she thinks.
Just focus on yourself

Man if I had a nickel for every time my buddy told me that. Ya know - the one whose cheating wife came back to him?

My ex wife and her affair partner just passed the 2 year mark on their affair.
So they are the exceptions, like your ex wife

I seriously doubt that she is ever going to want to come back to me. I am old now, she is having too much fun. Why would she even consider it?

There is no way of knowing what she will want or do.
The beat thing you can do, as others have told me to do, is live a good life and e strong for your kids

I dropped my girls off at the usual meeting place -WalMart parking lot. Noticed the xW had taken a shower, wonder why. Oh, that's right, she is getting sex five to nine times a day, which is of course the most important thing to her, above family and commitment and whatever else.

I yelled at her good tonight, called her lots of choice names, told her all the damage she is doing to her kids. I guises it's a good thing I was by myself in my truck on the way home or she might have heard some of it.

Your children thank you for your control too

In all honesty I did breach a bit of a gasket earlier today with them in the car. I snapped at them a little about the POSOM and stuff. The holidays are coming up and I am going to be alone both Thanksgiving and Christmas and the thought of it has me pretty depressed.

Well, in the course of the little rant, my 4-year-old blurted something that was pretty surprising. She said "but mommy loves you." Huh? Did she hear that somewhere? Did she tell her that recently? I didn't really press her on it because she is 4 1/2, but I found it pretty interesting. You know how 4 year old logic works, though, so I can't really take it seriously.

Well I zcan tell you that she doesn't love you.
No more than Madussa loved those who gazed upon her

Wow. I thought I was done getting gut-punched for today.

Well I dont mean to gut punch you but Christ showed us love, by giving his life for us.
Look to Christ.

Not to a word your ex wife does not understand

She was brought up in a Christian house, went to a Christian school K-12, has an uncle who is a Baptist Pastor for pete's sake. You'd think she would at least try to adhere to scripture. But no, she broke I don't know how many commandments for some strange. Kicked me to the curb because I couldn't find a job. Real upstanding Christian, that one.

Wow. Got a doozy tonight. Thanksgiving eve of all things. I think I am just wanting some help translating the meaning behind this angry text I got from the xW this afternoon. Let me set it up a little and tell you what her circumstances are.

She is broke, unable to pay all her bills. The house is still in foreclosure, apparently, and she tells me she is still there "for the time being". Not sure exactly what is going on for sure. She texted me the other day asking me if I could take any of the dogs, so it is apparent that she is having trouble affording dog food. We've always fed them quality food that costs $50 for a 40lb bag. Anyway, she's trying to unload some of her expenses onto me.

So I get a text from a storage place that we are renting a unit from. The business was paying for this since most of the stuff in it was business-related. The credit card that it was being paid with is one that she has. She canceled my copy of that card. So they text me saying there is a problem with the card, and who do they talk to about it, and I told them. They asked for her number and I gave it to them. Then they asked me to have her call them, so I texted her "Call storage plus tomorrow". Right? Just doing what I've been asked.

More circumstantial stuff� Our 4 yr old is sick today. She texted me yesterday asking if I was off or if I was working. I said "working". She said that she'd have to take our daughter in to her job. What am I supposed to do? Take off work with no notice so SHE can work? Another thing - I still haven't paid any child support. I need to contact the child support extortion office and have my 'account' adjusted to reflect the $1750 she owes me from our state refund check that I never saw a penny of. After that I will square it up. okay, having said all that, here is the text I got:
-----------------------
our storage unit with your name on it is now paid through until the 21st. Congratulations. You have until then to get your belongings out if you do not wish to keep it any longer.
If you can afford a lawyer you can afford to provide Netflix for your children and any other belongings they may need at your house, including the following:
Clothes, pajamas, socks, underwear, diapers, jackets, gloves, etc.
Car seats...do not show up without them. You are required by law to have them. I am not making the girls stand out in the cold any longer than necessary to switch vehicles any further.
Do not tell me to call any more people because something is due. ESPECIALLY when my name isn't even on the account. Your lack of responsibility is astonishing. Kind of ironic how you used to knock (my cousin)'s husband "Joe" about not providing for his kids. Maybe some day you'll grow up and stop blaming me for everything, highly unlikely I realize, but for the sake of the girls it'd be nice. Pretty sad when you fill a 4 year olds mind with nonsense and burden her with things she cannot control. You are sick for being so selfish to feed (our daughter) with such bs on your own account. Read some literature on divorced parenting. Neither parent is to talk negatively about the other parent or their future significant others. I have abided by this but you most definitely cannot say the same. You are only going to confuse them even more by your rants. But after all, it makes YOU feel better to say what's on your mind to innocent children, so that's ok right?
-----------------------

Okay, there it is. She is obviously very angry. The thing about the ranting is partially true, but she is getting her info from a 4 year old, ok. My daughter starts bringing up the POSOM and I respond. I am not going to ignore her. I am only telling her factual things about him and what happened, and yes, I should probably zip it, but it bothers me when she starts talking about him. I try taking it with a grain of salt but ya know.. it is still a very sore subject. xW thinks I need to just accept it with a grin, apparently.

My xW has always had this attitude that if I have a job, then there must be this magical money fairy that will pay for everything. When we were together we made probably $85k one year, had a mortgage of $900, yet we had ZERO savings at the end of the year. How does that happen? I always suspected her of squirreling money away behind my back but apparently she didn't. She just loves to blow money with no regard for the consequences. So now I am working and again I think she believes that I have a magic money fairy that can make things all better. I moved into a rental 3 weeks ago and that was a $2500 weekend right there. I am trying to keep MY expenses down so I can pay the damn child support when that comes around. I have a credit union breathing down my neck for a line of credit that they need to start seeing payments on again.

So what are your thoughts on this? Why is she still so angry with me? Why is she looking to me to fix things? She has moved on, right? Where's the POSOM with the wallet?

I would ignore the texts and go a step further;;
Block her from text messaging you.
Use an IM for messaging

I do ignore the messages. It is so tempting to respond in kind but I have grown quite disciplined in that area. Still need to work on some other areas, of course. I am a work in progress.

The thing that bugs me is that knowing all that I know, I would be a fantastic husband if she ever came out of the fog and wanted to reconcile. But yeah, that ain't happening until she wants it to.

There is no depositing anything into any love bank with this woman. There is no bank. All she wants to do is make my life miserable. Everything is about money and everything is my fault. I am getting tired of this. I understand why the suicide rate is higher around this time of year, too. While you are all with your families and friends, I am in my crappy little rental house alone, no family, no friends. Maybe I am the problem after all.

I'm sorry that you are having a bad day

I'm having a bad life.

How many people have recovered their marriages after this long? After this much time has passed and the WW is still with the POSOM? I am guessing very few.

I am in Plan B as much as I can be, but then I'm told that I have opportunities to make deposits in a love bank that doesn't exist and can't exist as long as that POS is still in her life. She shows zero signs of feeling guilty. I don't think I can ever be friendly with her after all of this. The only redemption will come if she stops the other relationship and indicates that she made a mistake. Then I might be willing to talk, but she'll have a long way to go to prove to me that she is serious. She has done so much damage, she has no idea.

I also just learned from my 4 year old that Thanksgiving was attended by my xW's sister and her family, and the POSOM and his kids. One big new happy family. I have been completely expelled from my own family. I wonder how they'd feel if I were expelled even further.

Did the father in law come?

Im sorry, Blind. You can't control her actions and morals, or that of her family. Keep in a dark plan b and ignore what is happening on her side. Dwelling on it serves no purpose and only makes you depressed. Time to rebuild your life and build a new social network.

Dont let her choices defeat you. Time to start a new and happy life. Trust in God and give it time.

He's not in a dark plan B. He's not in plan A or Plan B and having a difficult time.
Dr Harley revommended plan B and I encourage you to do that

Jedi is right. Get into Plan B. Go dark. And see a doctor for your despondency.

No. I asked my daughter and she said they were not there.

Explain again a dark plan B if you would. Keep in mind I have NO ONE here supporting me in any way. I cannot use an intermediary because there is no one to use.

I'd also like to hear from a former Wayward Wife who had an extended affair and snapped out of it. As much as I rail against this cheating B on here, I can't even date anyone else because I am not really interested in being with anyone else. I spoke those vows because I knew I would adhere to them and I meant them.

I also wonder why she feels the need to say things, like "typical, you haven't changed" when my changing or not changing should have no bearing on her life at this point, right? Is she still wanting some kind of change from me? Of course I have changed dramatically, though, in my understanding of things and many other ways, but she still wants to perceive me as that frustrated confused angry guy she cheated on so she feels better about continuing a relationship based on adultery and deceit.

A dark Plan B is you do not see, hear or have any contact whatsoever with ykur ex wife.

I don't think that is possible. Like I said, I have no one I can trust with my kids.

Then I suggest you limit contact as much as possible

Blind,

Maybe someone here would be willing to be your IM if need one. If not, keep your contact limited to text messages. If she tries to start an argument with you, do not respond. Simple messages that deal only with the business of the children and legal matters that might pop up. Ignore her wayward fogbabble. She is responsible for her decisions to break vows not you. But you are responsible for not letting her hurtfulness hurt you. Shield yourself.

I'm going to put this out there plainly because I think you need to hear it: You have had a rough 4 years, and I am very sorry for the bad breaks you've had. But if you don't change your outlook and your defeatist attitude, you will fall deeper into despair.

If you don't have a social network, build one. Volunteer, attend a church, join a club. If you don't have employment, find an entry level position to get you back in the game.

Pick yourself up, man. See a doctor and get help for your depression. And try to find the positives that life has to offer. Right now that will be hard, but they are there if you look for them. It's up to you.

Watch your thoughts, they become words.
Watch your words, they become actions.
Watch your actions, they become habits.
Watch our habits, they become your character.
Watch your character, it becomes your destiny.

I, also, think you need to get into a very dark Plan B. She is so toxic in her interactions with you.

Change your contact information, enlist your FIL's help with the child exchanges, and focus on getting yourself mentally healthy.

And I agree with Justthe3ofus' post (except for the contact-I don't think you should have any contact since she uses any chance she gets to dig the knife in a little deeper).

FIL lives in another state. As I said before, I have no one that I can use as an intermediary. My parents live here but they are very mentally unhealthy people. The would move the earth for my younger brothers but they would do nothing to help me out in the slightest way. I have not spoken to them in almost a month and I intend to keep it that way. THEY are toxic also. Everyone I have ever had in my life does nothing but remind me what a failure I am and have never been supportive. On top of that, my parents try to control me. I don't need that. Again, if there weren't two innocent little girls involved, this cheating POS would be a mere footnote in my history by now. But having kids with someone does something. All I can see is the future that my girls won't have because their mother is a selfish person who surrounds herself with enablers.

I know he's out of state.
But there are some other options.
Some use a "curb side " pick up.
The issue is the ongoing conflict from contact.

You need to find a way to have no contact with her
As example, the recent text messages about the storage unit.
There is no need to text her or receive her messages.
You can have an intermediary act as an email IM for communication.
That alonr would eliminate a lot of stress

I do have minimal contact with her. Sometimes I go a week without texting, and then I'll get a text pertaining to when/where we make the exchange. But I do think we need to find a place where she can unload them and I don't need to see her cheating face.

I'm still waiting to hear from a former WW who was in a fog as deep as hers. Anyone know any MB members who have been in my xW's position?

What a day. My 4 year old got extremely upset when I told her that I was taking her back to her mommy. She got upset again when I dropped her off. I mean like the deep sobbing kind of upset. I didn't say a thing to her to make her upset - she knows she won't see me again for 5 days. I hope that selfish cheater feels at least a little bit guilty about what she is putting our daughter through, but probably not. She'll just blame me and sleep soundly at night.

I think you are right.
She probably will sleep soundly.
She doesn't care about your kids and has no shame

Your daughter loves you. That is something to appreciate. A girl loves her father in a very special way.

Try to not get caught up in your ex and her ability to see things.

Instead, consider how your kids can truly enjoy time and feel cherished when they are with you.

For how long? What is wrong with people? I thought she was intelligent but I guess I was very mistaken. Some Christian she turned out to be.

Unfortunately some people just turn wicked

From Dr Harleys letter Should I remarry my ex spouse:

"
Every time you get together, you are being exposed to his attractive characteristics. Somehow, he is meeting your needs and depositing love units, keeping his account in your�Love Bank�full to the brim. The effect of it all shows up most when you are apart from each other, and you want him to meet your needs again. So to avoid being attracted to your husband, you must make sure he doesn't deposit any more love units. You must simply discipline yourself for a period of time (six months to two years), to not have any contact with him whatsoever. The saying, "out of sight, out of mind," is true if you give it enough time.So the answer to your question, how can I "let go," is to never see him or talk to him again. Move away so you are not tempted to see him. Have someone deliver your children to him when it's his turn for visitation. Get him completely out of your life. It's what I recommend when a spouse is having an affair, which is another approach-avoidance conflict. The wayward spouse should never see or talk to his lover again the rest of his life. By doing that, he or she is able to let go.But until you either get rid of the repulsive characteristics that drive you away from each other, or discipline yourself never to see your ex-husband again, you will continue to watch him go through an endless loop of coming and going. You both have very attractive characteristics that drew you into marriage. Those same characteristics have created a trap, keeping you from "letting go."

Jedi, in that scenario, who is the wayward spouse? I can't imagine my xW having ANY attraction to me whatsoever, even though I am still attracted to her (but then I didn't have the affair). I can't cut off contact completely because there is no one to act as intermediary, and I mean no one.

I have cut off contact with my parents, though, which is a separate issue that I have to deal with. Regardless, they would be unreliable as intermediaries since they could give a rat's caboose about my situation. That leaves me with no family here at all, and I have no friends that have the free time to help.

In that situation, there may not have been a wayward.
Harley just says to get the person out of sight, out of mind

Here are the articles.
Should I Remarry My Ex-Spouse? #1
Should I Remarry My Ex-Spouse? #2

Here's an example of how I can't do a dark Plan B: I got a text this evening informing me that my 4 1/2 year old daughter has a Christmas program at the local high school tomorrow evening. I will have to take off work early with no warning. She was giving me crap about "not knowing about it" - I have been to their day care ONCE in the past couple months and I get no correspondence from them even though they have my email address. She seems to love to ignore the fact that I am gone 12 to 14 hours a day at this job.

I almost broke down when I got the text, because this is her first Christmas program, and I had envisioned sharing the moment as a family. But yeah, that won't happen. In fact, if the POSOM is there, I can't guarantee that there won't be some trouble. I don't want to ruin my daughter's evening, but it would be pretty brazen of the xW to have him there.

I also talked to my FIL last night. THey are coming out for Christmas, and it should be interesting if she has the POSOM at the house, given the fact that her father is NOT approving of her actions or his presence. He actually met him briefly last time he was in town, but he didn't know who he was at the time. After he found out, he had nothing to do with him. That was the weekend my xW accused me of "ruining her relationship with her father", which of course is BS - she did it all by herself.

Anyway that's my post for tonight. Not a happy camper, as usual.

Do you have a friend that can come with you?

I've said it 5 times: I have no one here. No family, no friends. I am about as alone as you can imagine.

Well watch out.
Don't do something you'll regret later

I'm not sure if she is that dumb to bring that POS along. She said she invited my parents, but I doubt they will show up. I haven't spoken to them in almost a month and I'm trying to put as much distance between me and them as possible.

Can you set up Google calendar to have all the children's activities entered and so you don't have to communicate with WXW and you stay updated?

That's the thing - I wasn't even aware of this event until yesterday. I was not informed by anyone. I was not at the daycare to see the announcement and I apparently didn't see it the last time I picked them up because that's not where my focus was.

Does the daycare have a website to check for events? When my children were in preschool (and now elementary), I check their website a couple times a month in case I missed any notifications that did not make it home.

This is so simple. Call the Daycare and ask the to put you on their e-mail list (if they communicate that way) or their mailing list. There has to be a communication loop and you simply need to be included in it so this doesn't happen again.

Ignore your WW's criticisms. They're worthless.

Yes.

Let daycare know that they must send you information and events in addition to the mother. That you expect them so that you can plan work accordingly.

(daycares and schools understand this if notified)

I checked their website today - they only have scheduled days off and that sort of thing on their calendar, and no announcements. For what they charge you'd think they'd have that on there.

Can you email them and ask them to send you notices, because you aren't getting them?

Blindsided,
Have looked in on your story from time to time. I have to say that you have probably been kicked around and 'blindsided' by your ex-wife. However, seems that you do open yourself to misery and conflict in your life and current situation Think you need to: 1) change your focus from your ex-wife to you she is your ex-wife now, and if she wants another man in her life is her choice, 2) be much more proactive on your own behalf, and 3) obtain a decent-paying permanent job, even if it means you have to relocate from an economically -depressed are as you have described.

Blindsided, regarding No. 1 - she is your ex-wife. She is legally free to choose another man at this point, and you have no say in that matter. If their relationship began while you were legally married, then you do have a say - other-wise not. There seems to be a custody issue regarding your kids living and being supported by the OM and you not having much visitation. Then, work hard, earn god money, and get back to court to resolve that. Regarding No. 2 - as a dad, I would have taken a day off work and resolved that mis-communication issue with day care with a personal visit - not got gripe, but to get to know the administrator of that day care and ensure that he/she knew how important it is to be in the loop, as the dad. Regarding No. 3, all I can say is get a decent-paying permanent job that will ensure you employment and economic security for the next several years. I suspect there are a couple of things on your mind now, and those are that you may not have much in the way for your retirement socked away (and at your age that is not good), and that you have much in the way of child support facing you over the next several years. Not good. You ARE on the hook for child support for your two kids for the next several years - same as if she had never divorced you! Please do not underestimate the state's power to place you in the slammer (at her request) if you financially ignore child support. All the more reason for you to do the best you can to obtain a good permanent job. If that requires relocation, yes it may mean sacrificing time with your kids in the short term. In the long-term tho, it will pay off.

In sum, focus on yourself(not at all on your ex-W) and your future (i.e, Plan B), take any measure to grow your job skills and devote at least 30 hours per week to obtain a permanent position, and be much more proactive in our life in dealing with people and disappointments that may come your way.

I do have sympathy for you Blindsided, but it wounds like you could do much much beter to overcome your woes. Will say some prayers for you as I did when I first read your sotry.

Tom

Tom, let me address your post.

1, She may be legally free to do what she pleases, and that was her reason for divorcing me - to justify her adultery and make it okay somehow. She DID commit adultery and started the affair even before we were separated. Rather than make any attempt to fix our marriage, she began an emotional affair that became physical long before we were divorced. None of this came up in court because there was no court - I did not respond to the petition for philosophical reasons. Also, the POSOM does not support her or my kids in any way whatsoever. As far as I understand, he still swings by for some punani and spends the night a couple times a week and that's about it. Her parents are not supportive of her actions, especially her father. She is not happy, despite hat she may have thought divorcing me would do for her.

2. I don't have a crystal ball, and I do not go to my kids' preschool, so unless someone informs me, I don't know what is going on. I suppose I could be more proactive in that regard, but I am also very busy during the week and have little free time for anything.

3. The contract position I have now pays pretty well, and there it talk of it becoming permanent. Remember, too, that I am in the process of bringing a product to market that should be very lucrative for me if all my ducks line up how I need them to. Not counting those chickens yet, though.

Most of the time I have my head about me, but there are times when I lose it and say dumb things. It's hard when the WxW is still kicking my balls every time I see her - she still blames me for all of her problems which tells me that her side of the equation ain't going so well, either.

I may be a complete idiot, but I am still holding out hope that she decides that she made a mistake and wants to talk about things. In the meantime, I am indeed concentrating on other things like starting a company, and I also bought a cheap keyboard controller so I can start putting some of my music compositions that have been rattling around my brain into garage band.

How's everything going this week?

Same S different day. Having a real hard time with Christmas. I do believe you are the only person on the planet who bothers to give a crap, Jedi, Thanks.

Blindsided,

I am a fairly new poster here. But I have been following your thread since you began to post.

It seems that your pain is turning you into a negative person. I don't know you, but this is what I am hearing in your posts. (I think Just3 referred to this as a self-defeatist attitude.) Have you tried writing a list of things you are thankful for, or things that you can be positive about? Then, read through your list several times each day (or more). The positive and up-beat man will attract other people to them more easily. I want you to heal from the pain you are feeling. It almost seems like you are punishing yourself for your ex-WW's choices.

Have you tried to write a list of positive things? (Some examples I see would be that you have 2 beautiful daughters, and you don't have any compound fractures, or your sewer system didn't break last week in your house.) Will this help you and is it worth a try? Have you tried to become involved in a church or in volunteering? Others do care, but you must take the first step in your journey of personal healing. Be strong. You are worth it, and your daughters need you.

I'm not really that negative a person, but this place ends up being a venting station, ya know? I get wound up about something and I come here to find out if I am insane for being angry or whatever.

As for making a list of positive things, there aren't many, to be honest. Let's see: I hardly see my kids. They are growing up fast and I am missing almost all of it. I have a chronic medical condition that makes eating unpleasant at the least. I have a temporary job that is an hour away, which east up almost all of my free time during the week. I have no health insurance. My family has ALL abandoned me. I got no calls or texts at Thanksgiving and don't expect to get any for Christmas. Why don't I contact them? Because it goes both ways, that's why. I have always been the one to have to pick up the phone, and if I don't, we don't talk. It shouldn't be like that with family. They don't like me. I don't know why but I am beginning to not care.

What else? Oh yeah - my wife cheated on me and I am into her for child support. The state office already had my license suspended. I need to straighten some things out with them before I can pay her anything. Not that I don't want to "support" my kids, but it seems unnecessary for me to contribute when I need to support myself, and she can seem to be able to afford a brand new iPad even when she doesn't get anything from me. No shortage of money there.

What else? I can't get a date to save my life. Been celibate for 2 years and 10 months. That's a super confidence-booster right there.

In the positive column? I'm not dead. Yet. I really don't have anything to look forward to exert the time with my girls. Everything else is wasted time.

Well believe me, I'm with you on the celibacy.
But so are a lot of men.

I'm not sure if you are driving or taking a train for your long commute. Have you tried to listen to books on CD, learn a language, or write special notes for your daughters? What goals do you have for self-improvement? Do you have anything to look forward to?

I take a train. I have tried reading, but I can't really concentrate. My daughters can't read yet. I have very little free time so I don't have much of an opportunity to devote a lot of time for self-improvement. What time I do have I spend working on the product launch I mentioned a bunch of posts ago. I actually had a meeting yesterday afternoon with an engineer who loves my idea and has offered to be my project manager. He has a lot of manufacturing experience and will be a very good person to help me get this thing off the ground. That is about the only thing I have to look forward to, really. I will probably end up making a LOT of money and be able to get cheap floozies left and right, but that's not really what I want.

BlindSided, just wanted to let you know that I've been following your thread also. I know you are going through a very difficult time and it might seem as if there is no way out, but I also believe life always has its ups and downs and if you wait long enough things will change. Having been through the depths of despair myself earlier this year,I can certainly sympathize with you. The only advice I can offer you is not to give up on your faith, but instead pray to God more than you ever have before. I believe if you are faithful to Him, you will be in His care. I will keep you and your family in my prayers as well.

Blindsided,

Seems you have a couple of things to add to your 'positive' side of the list, which you didn't include: 1) you currently have a well-paying job that could turn permanent, 2) you have two kids, who you seem to love very much, and 3) the prospect of the market launch of your product development. On the other side of the ledger, and as someone put it, you have challenges - and not necessarily unscalable obstacles.

However, you seem easily prone to swoop down on yourself to feel comfortable as a victim. That stance doesn't make you very appealing to anyone you encounter - including your XW and your daughters and those here on MB trying to counsel you. We all face challenges! In my own situation, my wife has been in a nursing home for three years Hard, yea, but you adapt - not what I expected for us in our golden years. It is what is is.

This may hurt, but - I was watching an older "A Christmas Carol" movie the other night, and a line by the narrator sort of reminds me of you - "Old Scrooge lived alone and disliked everyone!" Who could ever like this guy, much less want to reconcile with him? I believe your negative attitude is evident to your XW and your daughters, and compared to her guy, you probably do appear as unappealing - pretty obvious from your comments regarding how your 4-yr old admires him. Pretty obvious that their admiration is tending toward him.

So, maybe just maybe, you will find it within yourself to take some of the suggestions here to begin to think more positively about yourself and others! The recommendation regarding volunteer work is great. I know you will say you do not have the time, are too tired and feeling poorly and all that. However, I have worked in a volunteer situation with an 81-year-old woman who travels 15 miles one-way at 4 am in the morning two days a month to make breakfast for our local PADS clients. Getting to know her I learned she lost her daughter several years ago and recently lost her husband. With all that, she is a warm and inspiring person to be around.

This is meant to help - sometimes caring is tough!

Tom

Count your blessings not your misfortunes.

Great post. If the pattern holds this poster will come back with self-fulfilling defeatest comments. I challenge him to read your comments with an open mind and take your advice. .

I am aware of my defeatist posts, and I think that I do this to vent, and also because I was brought up around defeatist people. My mother sees the worst in everything, never anything positive comes from her. That's why I haven't talked to her in 6 weeks. I think that I come off as way more negative than I feel like I am. I come here when I feel defeated, but I don't feel like that most of the time. Know what I mean? I don't go around complaining about everything all the time, but this forum seems to be a place that I come to express myself and see if there's anyone who relates, because there isn't anyone out here in the real world who gives a damn.

xFIL/MIL are visiting xW this week. Should be interesting. Not sure what will come of it, if anything.

Well hopefully your ex FIL will let OM know what a low life scum he is.

I need this nightmare to stop, one way or the other. I told the cheating xW even before we separated that divorce isn't going to work for me. It still doesn't work for me. I am tired of this long unending nightmare.

You should really focus on finding a way to have no contact with h her.

No contact with her = no contact with my kids. There are no options - I have no family or friends any more.

Then at a minimum eliminate text, phone and email contact with her.
Use an IM for communication and curb side pick up/ drop off

That's basically what I do now, except NO INTERMEDIARY. How many times do I have to say it? THERE IS NO ONE. I HAVE NO ONE TO USE AS AN INTERMEDIARY. NOT ONE PERSON.

Blindsided,

First of all a Merry Christmas to You!

Have a little break now before making dinner for my son and his gf for later this afternoon. I was down some myself yesterday in thinking that my wife is in a nursing home out-of-state, and that the last time we spent Christmas here at home together was for Christmas 2010. So, this is the third Christmas that we are not at home together in 45 years. I know it could certainly get to me if I let it. I did call her last night and we had a wonderful talk, and she's already planning things for us to do when I travel to see her in early Jan.

Have you seen your daughters yesterday or today? Have you done something special for yourself today - watch a good movie, prepare a nice meal, etc.? Do you have a few days of vacation this Christmas season that you can spend with your daughters or go and see a good first-run movie?

Take care of yourself,
Tom

Fed up.

Whats going on?

Nothing is going on. Same as always. It's so nice to go through the entire holiday season without hearing from a single member of my family. Add to that having to leave my kids again and again to not see them for days at a time. I can't keep doing this.

Do you go to a church where members of the congregation can offer support? Can you have visitation drop-offs at the church or pastor's home? Any neighbors that could help? Have you met some new friends recently?

Have you thought about getting help for depression?

Did you hear anything from your FIL after his visit with ex ww?

I go to a church, but it is a large church and I really only know a few people there and I have worn out my welcome with regard to my problems. I cannot use them for drop-offs because they are out of the way. I don't know any of the neighbors here - been here one month. I have no friends to speak of, only work acquaintances. As for depression, I am not going to medicate myself into a stupor. I have heard nothing but bad things about antidepressants.

Not yet. I left him a message Saturday but he hasn't returned the call. He is hard to get a hold of and insists on using a basic no-contract phone.

Then you must not be paying attention to Dr. Harley. He strongly recommends antidepressants for those in situations like yours. Antidepressants are lifesavers. They restore a state of normality to your mental state, allowing you to think clearly once again. That is what the medication did for me. I am confident your experience would be the same.

My H was on ADs for some time, due to career stress. He was never medicated into a stupor, nor did they ever cloud his judgment or cause him to feel strange in any way. They balanced out his brain chemicals to bring him up from the extremely negative state he was in. He felt better about life in general and was much easier to get along with, because he viewed life in a more positive way.

I have also been on ADs. They serve to normalize the mood, taking out the extreme bottoms.

You could try Wellbutrin, which has very few negative side effects. If that doesn't help after a couple of weeks, work with your doctor on getting one that WILL work with your particular brain chemicals.

ADs really do help, and they don't have to be forever.

I read a lot on this Forum but rarely post as I do not feel I am expert enough to tell anyone what to do when my life is so messed up.....BUT in case (as I have follow your thread and do know so much about depression and lo loneliness and you are suffering from both.

My heart just goes out to you and I continue to pray for you. I'm not praying for healing of your marriage but healing of you!!!!

So many people on here are giving you great advise but you are doing nothing but wallowing in self pity. Please get to a church, start there, take your girls as people will welcome you. That will be a start in digging out of this hole.

Your life will never change until you take a step to do something. You are waiting for others but that will not work.

Wishing you a better 2014.

I too was concerned that AD's would make me into a passionless zombie and resisted asking for a prescription until about 6-9 months after D-Day.

I didn't feel as triggered or jumpy, but personally didn't feel much benefit, but all my close acquaintances said they noticed an improvement. I was on Lexapro.

You can Choose to stay stuck or start doing something about it. What you are doing right now doesn't seem to be working, does it?

LTL

See, this is what people do when they are depressed. They give excuses and say "I can't" and "yeah, but". They can not think logically only emotionally. (Dr Harley spoke of this on a recent radio broadcast but I can't remember when, I'll link it if I can find it).

AD's will help you think positive and be constructive in finding solutions. I have been on celexa and it did not slow me down or cause any side effects. It kept the "I can't" out of my vocabulary and allowed me to think hopefully.

There are sooo many people here who care for you and are trying to help, but it is difficult when we feel like we are banging our heads against a wall.

Everyone is right and so dead-on in regards to depression, negative thinking and AD's. I take Buspar and Lexapro. Both are non-addictive/non-habit forming, which I like. I feel/act like a zombie when I'm NOT on them. I don't like drugs either, but at least taking them makes me feel human. I can think logically and function instead of crying constantly....sitting and feeling sorry for myself and wallowing in self-pity. You want your circumstances to change? You want to get out of this self-destruct mode? No one can do this for you. You have to do it yourself. Please get help and don't drag the garbage from 2013 into 2014. Pledge to make 2014 the best year ever.

I just received this timely e-mail ***EDIT***

Moderators note: Please refrain from printing advice from other web sites or programs on Dr Harley's Marriage Builders site.

The drama continues. I dropped my girls off and 5 minutes later get a text from the xW: "(4 yr old) just told (2 yr old) 'nana and pop-pop don't love us anymore'. What are you telling them?" Then she proceeded to accuse me of brainwashing them and whatever else. I've never said anything of the sort to my kids, and I have no idea where she came up with that. My 4 yr old actually brought them up today because I was staying with them, as you know, and they have a pool. She was talking about going swimming and I said "well, maybe when summer comes we can go visit them and use the pool." How that turned into "nana and pop-pop don't love us anymore" is well beyond my comprehension. Then the xW started complaining that I always blame others for everything and take no responsibility for my actions, blah blah. which might have been more true before I read HNHN and Surviving an Affair. But still, I never blamed her for anything more than she deserved being blamed for, ya know? I screwed up plenty. Anyway, that was my evening and I'm not even angry or upset that she dished that garbage my way. I don't know what is going on in her head any more. She still thinks what she did is right. She has no guilt, no remorse, and if she does she had not let on in the least.

Antidepressants allowed me to coolly and calmly make my life better, even when it required plowing through some very emotional ground.

Antidepressants for numbing normal feelings from being betrayed. I guess I should just "man up" and "deal with it" and "get over it" and "accept it" and all that garbage.

Now my xFIL apparently isn't talking to me. Looks like he has accepted his daughter's adultery and the fact that my little girls are now in danger of abuse - the POSOM has a son who is approaching puberty. I cannot guarantee I will keep my **** together if something happens to my girls. I can tell you I am never going to "get past this", with antidepressants or without.

Thats unfortunate that the exFIL may be accepting her adultery.

Its possible hes just not calling you back and might not necessarily mean hes approved of her though.

But the last time he visited he shaked OM hand, so he may not be as strong a Christian father as you thought.

He has gone a couple weeks without calling because he has been sick or really busy. He did shake the POSOM's hand, but he said he didn't know who it was at first. After he found out, he ignored him and didn't say a word to him. There were a few other people there as well, so the confusion is understandable.

My 4 1/2 year old is still getting very sad when I drop her off on Sundays. She cries when I leave.

Im sorry to hear that your 4 yr old is having a hard time.

I think it is probably worse than I even think it is. Even though the xW denies any brainwashing, my 4 year old won't even mention the POSOM's name around me.

Do you have the kids this weekend?

I have them every Friday night and Saturday, and every other Sunday as well. Not enough. I need to see them every day, tuck them in to bed every night. I almost lost it on the train home this evening because I miss them so much.

Do you take them to church on Sundays?

Blindsided,

Have you considered suggesting to your wife that you would like to take the kids to some xxx event which (oh so coincidentally) falls in her custody timeframe?

She may be up for the night "off" and that might get you more time with your kids?

You could do this every once in a while and gradually increase in frequency.

On the Sunday I have them, always. And they love going - they ask me if we are going to church every time I see them. You'd think it would rub off on their mother but it doesn't. She is about as far away from the Christian upbringing she can get without murdering someone.

Exactly how long can I expect this "affair" to go on? She is still seeing this POS after at least two years, and knowing him for 3 1/2. I thought it was supposed to last 6 months, tops.

According to Dr Harley, 95% of affairs die a natural death within 2 years

I'll probably be the lucky stiff whose shearing wife falls in the 5%. She is still extremely resentful and angry, as evidenced in this recent text:

"Do you think you're God and that you're perfect and you do nothing wrong and you can just place blame on everyone but yourself?"

This after she accused me of brainwashing my kids after my 4 yr old said that my parents don't love them anymore. I don't know why she said that, because I never said any such thing to her. Anyway, I still have no clue what goes on in that woman's head. I don't think she will ever own up to anything. She lives her life her way with no regard to anyone else's feelings, and she makes sure she keeps her enabler friends around her to justify her behavior.

Sound EXACTLY like my ex-husband, only he thinks HE IS God

Did you respond to her text?
If not, i suggest you write the following: "I am willing to work with you to createa loving marriage but you must first end your affair"
(Send the above if you want to reconcile)

If you are willing to go no contact, Dont send a reply

Every communication is going to upset you so if I encourage you to 1. Follow Dr Harleys recommendation to go to no contact ....

Or if you insist on remaining in contact to go to Plan A.

I removed this post.

Jedi, I can't go no contact, I have no one to act as an intermediary, no one. I did respond to the text because she was accusing me of brainwashing them - something SHE has been engaging in from what I can tell. Again, more projection from the innocent adulterer.

What little contact I have had with her I have kept it neutral. She can still barely look me in the eye unless she is angry. I wouldn't even know how to Plan A with this creature.

Also, if I were to send that text, asking for reconciliation, she wouldn't even respond. If she did, it would be in the negative, and with a hateful tone.

Have the girls today and will be taking them back soon. When we were in the store my daughter ran up to the flower kiosk and said "Let's get mommy some roses." What the heck. $10 for a dozen roses to make my daughter happy, and to see what kind of reaction it gets. Stay tuned, but don't hold your breath. I'm certainly not.

What a cute daughter! And you can compliment your daughter on how thoughtful she is!

Blindside,

Instead of responding to her texts immediately, can you please post them here for suggested responses?

I agree with Jedi, if you post any texts/emails from WW we can help you with a response. Its important for your response to keep to the facts and not who any emotion ...you don't want to give her any ammunition she may use against you and you can't reason/educate a WS. As you probably already know waywards are very good at transferring the blame and projecting their own behaviour onto the BS.

Agree with Bluefin. Your daughter is sweet.

As far a text messages go, you should go dark. But since you cant find an IM, just delete them and don't respond. As it is, they are going to be ongoing daggers. Not fun. Not healthy.

How is your "invention" coming along. I am hoping that project will work out for you so you have some positives in your life. Glad you had a weekend with the kids. That's a blessing that you can count.

I am hoping circumstances will change so you can drop the Eeyore persona and become happier.

The only time she text me is when it has to do with the girls, and that is it. Half the time I don't even respond. I sometimes wonder if she is doing the same thing to me. We're Plan Bing each other and there's nothing happening.

Thanks of asking about the invention. I finally contacted a mechanical engineer that a friend of mine kept prodding me into talking to. He loves the idea and is working on it for me. I put fabrication on hold so he can work out some issues in SolidWorks that I was planning on doing in reality. He knows a lot of people and is pushing me toward going for some VC funding to get it going. He believes I will sell a lot more than even I think. If he is right, I'll probably be very well off in a short time. If that happens, I don't know if I could trust the xW if she told me she wanted to reconcile because her motive would be questionable.

What did you text in reply to her orihinal text?

Gosh, it was an exchange. You want me to transcribe the whole thing?

It would be very helpful to see for those of us offering our advice

Interestingly, my ex wifes affair has lasted nearly 2.5 years to date...

Your invention sounds really awesome. Keep working on it.

If you are worried about your Ex wanting possible recovery with you because of the money, you can always have her sign a pre-nup. This is something you can decide later on *if* things go that way.

Okay, here it is, with names redacted:

xW:

<4yr old> just told <2yr old> "Nana and pop pop don't love us anymore." Are you freaking kidding me? Are you trying to screw them up in the head or what???

Me:

Whaaaat. I never said anything like that.

Trust me, they'll be screwed up enough with everything you've done without me telling them anything.

xW:

A 4 year old can't make that up.

Me:

I didn't say that

She mentioned them and swimming, and I said maybe when summer comes we can go

xW:

You are so quick to blame me for everything.

Me:

But nothing like that

xW:

They will only be screwed up if you continue to feed them BS

Me:

But I don't. By the way, I haven't been brainwashing them to keep secrets like you have.

I'm sorry, who committed adultery again?

But I made you do that

xW:

Brainwash? Hardly. I only told <4yr old> that one time not to mention where she got the stuffed animal because I didn't want her to mention <POSOM> and then have to flip out and get mad at her. That was the only stuffed animal in my car and she started crying because I told her not to take it.

Me:

She shouldn't even be getting stuffed animals from strange men that are not her father.

xW:

Umm he's not a strange man and he didn't get it for her. One of his kids let her play with it and I didn't even know it was in the car

Me:

But you've got your worldly friends to tell you that it's okay to cheat and divorce and as long as the kids are little they will adjust.

He doesn't belong in their lives

And you know that

xW:

Do you think you're God and that you're perfect and you do nothing wrong and you can just place blame on everyone but yourself?

Me:

Not at all

xW:

No I don't know that...

Me:

I've got plenty of blame to accept

But adults talk to each other and work through things, especially when there are children

xW:

You can't take any blame without pointing your fingers right back at me in the same breath

Me:

Recall our past conversations and you'll remember that you did that very thing to me over and over.

I usually do not even get suckered into a conversation with her because it always turns into this kind of thing, but I don't take kindly to unfounded accusations.