Marriage Builders
Hello everybody.

PLEASE HELP.

I made a few posts here months ago and deleted them when it was not what I wanted to hear and felt I was bashed. I am sorry.

I am ready to learn and own my mistakes. My situation has spiralled out of control and I am at breaking point.

I am very much in love with my husband. I will do anything to have a chance at my marriage but am very very sure that it may be too late.

My husband came to this site over a year ago in desperate need of help to save our marriage. I cruelly did not give him a chance. I don't think he posts here anymore but this is the link to his posts so you can hear what happened.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...s=lovemybird&Search=true#Post2612974

if the link doesn't work his user name is lovemybird

A lot has happened since he posted. He has met another woman and moved her into his house with her children. He has been seeing me again for the past year and we have fallen back in love. Again I know I Have done the wrong thing by seeing him behind her back.

So I don't have to type it all again I am going to copy and paste the letter I have sent to Dr Harley and Joyce in hope they will respond.

You will get my take on everything that has happenned.

This is it:




Dear Dr Harley and Joyce

I am writing to you in the desperate hope you may have some advice to save my marriage. My life has fallen apart and I don't know how to get up.

It's quite a complicated story. My husband and I have been married for 8 years. We have a 7 year old son together. He also has children from his first marriage and I another child from my first relationship. We all lived together with all the kids.

We have been separated for nearly 2 years now. I had an emotional affair and spoke to another man over the internet which led to phone calls as well. I didn't meet the other man while I was with my husband. I moved out of the house and then about 6 months later I did meet up with him and we had a relationship.

My husband found out that I had the emotional affair and was rightly devastated and did everything in his power to win me back including reading your books and posting messages on your website forum. I did not give him a chance. I broke his heart completely and am not proud at all for what I have done.

While separated and me not living at our home, and when my husband had exhausted all means of getting me back, he was so lonely that he posted a personal ad on a dating site in hope for some companionship. He met up with a woman and they began a relationship. Shortly after he moved her into our marital home along with her 2 kids. She is separated from her husband as well and they are not divorced either.

Shortly after she moved in with my husband I ended my affair. I had been foolish and selfish in what I had done to my husband and my family. I realised how much I loved my husband and was ready to save my marriage and do whatever it took to save our marriage. Unfortunately it was now too late as his new girlfriend had moved in with her children.

My husband still loved me but felt he could not ask her to move out.

During the time my husband has been living with the new girlfriend, my husband and I have been reconnecting and sleeping with each other for the past year. We have fallen back in love with each other. I love him so much and just want a chance to save our marriage.

Last week he promised me it was definately over for good with him and the girlfriend and it was only a matter of time before she would be moving out. He has no courage to just stand up and tell her that he still loves me. He doesn't want to be the bad guy around her family and his family. He keeps waiting for her to leave him so he doesn't have to be the bad guy.

He has told me that he is not in love with her, and not attracted to her and should never have moved her in. I know my husband very well and I do believe this to be true. I do believe that he loves me very much.

After telling me that it was over, three days later he told me that she had begged for another chance with him and he gave in again and let her stay. He told me he felt sorry for her and couldn't kick her out.

I was so devastated at being lead on again that I confronted his girlfriend and got very angry at her. I should not have done this. I was feeling very helpless and desperate. This caused him and his girlfriend to have a big fight and he confessed to her that he had been seeing me for the past year behind her back.

I know how much my husband loves me, but he has now told me he no longer wants to see me at all or talk to me unless it is arrangements involving pick up or drop off of our son. He has now sent me a 'NO CONTACT' letter, the same one that you advise sending to the affair partner. He told me he loves his girlfriend with all his heart and that she is the best thing that has happenned to him. He told me we are to have no further contact. He told me that without my interference, he will rebuild his relationship with his girlfriend. He has told me he wants to settle our financial settlement and he wants to divorce me.

His whole family is involved and now hates me and his father has told me to stay away from him. His father told me that my husband will no longer be seeing me at all. They all love his new girlfriend and not me.

I know in my heart that my husband does not love the girlfriend at all. I know it is all a lie and he is doing it to save himself and do the right thing by her and he doesn't want to look bad around his family.

It hurts me so much that he has promised his love to me and then all of a sudden he has told me he wants nothing to do with me ever again. We had so many plans to get back together and restore and build and fix our marriage.

He did say to me only a week ago that no matter what happens he believes we are meant to be together and we will find our way back to each other one day no matter how long it takes. He said even if we got divorced we would find our way back.

I feel so hurt and alone and I am falling apart in shock that it has come to this. I know I did the wrong thing all over again by seeing him behind her back and it has all come back to haunt me.

I don't want a divorce. I love my husband with all my heart. I'm scared he will divorce me and marry her even though I know he is not in love with her and even though he promised he would not marry her.

I am so in love and desperate to fix our marriage. I will do absolutely everything I can to fix things but I fear things are beyond repair, especially since his family is so involved and keeping me from him.

I will do anything I can to win my husband back, because I believe in our love and our connection. I will wait for him as long at it takes. I will put any plan into action that you advise me if it means getting my marriage back on track.

At the moment I have been very quiet and have not responded to his no contact letter. I have not called or texted him as I believe this would not help the situation and he has asked for no contact. I will do absolutely anything to save my marriage. I want to spend our lives together. I know if we reconcile we can have the best marriage ever and make each other happy. I am hoping it's not too late.

I am grieving quietly and falling apart and trying to stay strong for our son.

Is there any hope for our marriage? I know deep down he loves me very much.

Please help me.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read my very long email. I thank you so much for your time and hope you will respond.


~~~~~~ So that is the long sorry story. I am falling apart in agony and helplessness. I now know how he felt when I had an affair and left him. I am so sorry for the hurt I have caused my husband and what I put him through. He was amazingly able to get through it and forgive me which I know I do not deserve. I will do anything in my power to save my marriage. I am scared. I don't want a divorce. I feel I may have to respect his decision. Even if we divorce I will wait forever for him. I will dedicate my life to saving my marriage even if it takes years. I will not give up on our love and making things right.

Thanks everybody.


I am off to work for the day so will not be able to check in for several hours. But I will be back posting and posting and doing whatever I can to salvage our marriage. It may take years but I will dedicate my life to it. Thank you again.
rocksolid, if he will end his relationship with the other woman, your marriage has a chance to survive, but if he wants to continue to enjoy both of you, that will be devastating to you.

You did not do wrong by dating your OWN HUSBAND behind the back of another woman that he is with. He is certainly within his rights to leave you over your affair, but not to go off and live with some other woman while still married to you.
Will he write OW a NC letter?
Generally, men can pursue a wife and win her back over time.
However this does not hold true for women.
When a man is done and closes the door it is difficult to win him back.

I am confident Dr Harley will give you good advice.
I hope you included your phone number in your email to him so he can speak with you; if not I encourage you to email your phone number asap to him.
Do you see a pattern? This is history repeating itself:

Originally Posted by LoveMyBird
LOL NeverGuessed

Mrs R, I think it would be a stretch to suggest I was having an affair on my first wife. We had separated for over 2 years, she had long since moved hours away and was living with another man long before I even considered dating again. Perhaps, technically on paper, but I wouldn't consider this to be cheating. And again with my current wife, this was the last thing I wanted to do. I wanted nothing more than to be loved by her but she didn't want anything to do with me. She moved out before I started any dating and I never lied or was deceitful in any way.

Indiegirl, I don't see how you could consider it a revenge affair. When I started dating this woman, I didn't even know my wife had an EA. For me, it was more of a coping mechanism, a rebound relationship. I know it was the wrong action to take now and will be ending things with her. She has been single for 2 years and i have met her ex husband, so there is nothing dodgy going on there. I don't love her, I love my wife. I want nothing more than to be with my wife for every day of my life, always
Thank you for your responses.

markos - he will not end his relationship with her. Now he has confessed everything to her he has ended it with me and told me wants a divorce. He is going to remain living with her and healing their relationship apparently even though he is married to me.

Brainhurts - No he will not write her a No contact letter. He remains living with her. He has written ME HIS WIFE a no contact letter and doing all the steps to end it with me.

Jedi knight - Yes I am sure Dr Harley will give me good advice. I am not sure how long it will take as I am sure he gets thousands of questions. Does every question get answered eventually or do some remain unanswered? Any ideas of a wait time?

So sad and wanting to get my marriage back. I will do anything and whatever it takes and no matter the time I will do it.

They are pretty quick to respond and usually answer all questions. I would definitely write them.

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.
Hi BrainHurts, Thanks for the info. I have already emailed and included my phone number. I copied the letter I wrote to them in my original post.

Thank you for being so nice to me.
Does anyone have any more advice for me. Please I am desperate.


I will listen and do anything I can.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Does anyone have any more advice for me. Please I am desperate.


I will listen and do anything I can.


I understand what you are feeling. Though I can not offer anything better then contacting Dr H. So sit tight. This mess has been going on for a long time. So it will not clean up that fast.
Thanks TheRoad. I know it will not clean up fast. I am prepared to do the hard yards.

I have organised counselling today. I am full of deep sorrow.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I have organised counselling today.
What does this mean? Are you organizing counseling with Dr. H? How are you 'organizing' this?
Hi maritalbliss

I have seen a doctor and got a referral to see a counsellor. I have called the counsellor and I have my first appointment next week. This is counselling for me to help me through this difficult time and get my life back on track in a good direction for me and my son and be the best mother I can be and learn from my mistakes and not to repeat them ever again.
It's definately over for good. He has chosen the girlfriend over me and remains to live with her and is going to divorce me as soon as possible. I saw him the other day at his work and I can't believe when I crumbled at his feet he stood there and did nothing and let my 7 year old son pick me up off the ground.

I was willing to do anything to repair our broken marriage.

I can't go on I am at my lowest of the low and hardly anyone on here is listening to me or replying.
I'm so sorry for your pain. Can you get into your doctor for ADs?

Have you exposed his affair?

You need Plan B. Can you get into Plan B?
Originally Posted by rocksolid
It's definately over for good. He has chosen the girlfriend over me and remains to live with her and is going to divorce me as soon as possible. I saw him the other day at his work and I can't believe when I crumbled at his feet he stood there and did nothing and let my 7 year old son pick me up off the ground.

I was willing to do anything to repair our broken marriage.

I can't go on I am at my lowest of the low and hardly anyone on here is listening to me or replying.

Your husband was really hurt by you and you have to understand that just because you want him back you can't just snap your fingers and get him back. Both you and your husband just need to learn that you need to end one relationship before starting another. ***EDIT***
Unfortunately he was on here and seemed willing to do anything to win you back but at the time you chose your affair partner.
Instead of ending your affair you chose to separate and he got a girlfriend during this lengthy separation.
I will offer this to consider: He was spending time with you (and sleeping with you?) While with his girlfriend. So you must have been meeting some needs of his and its possible that if he has no contact wiyh you, he and his girlfriend will begin to experience conflict.

Dr Harley may encourage you to write him a letter expressing your deep regret at your actions and expressing your desire to work with him to create a loving healthy marriage.

I would write the lletter and wait a couple weeks before entering a plan B.

You should be hearing from Dr Harley soon. He usually responds within a day

Originally Posted by BrooklynLove
Originally Posted by rocksolid
It's definately over for good. He has chosen the girlfriend over me and remains to live with her and is going to divorce me as soon as possible. I saw him the other day at his work and I can't believe when I crumbled at his feet he stood there and did nothing and let my 7 year old son pick me up off the ground.

I was willing to do anything to repair our broken marriage.

I can't go on I am at my lowest of the low and hardly anyone on here is listening to me or replying.

Your husband was really hurt by you and you have to understand that just because you want him back you can't just snap your fingers and get him back. Both you and your husband just need to learn that you need to end one relationship before starting another. ***EDIT***

This is very biased and obviously not MB advice.
This woman has come here for Marriage Builders advice on how to save her train wrecked marriage.
Her husband was hurt by her actions.
But that does not justify him goung out and getting a girlfriend. Girlfriends don't "help" betrayed husbands get over their wives adultery.
It just makes a bad situation worse.

The fact is, they are married and have a child.
Ideally, it would be best if they could remain married, commit to building a strong marriage and set an example for their daughter.
While his family may never support their marriage, they should be ashamed for suppoeting his adultery. Two wrongs do not make a right
Please stop "crumbling" at his feet, because it is not making you look like an attractive opsion. It is making you look like an idiot. Especially you should get a hold of yourself and not have theatrical tendencies in front of your son. He is a child, for crying out loud. You should be the one to make him feel safe. You have no business losing it and having your 7-year-old pick your up from the ground.

Regretfully your are in this mess, because you made choices that you now realize where wrong. You owe it to your son to become the best mother you can. Teach him how to walk with his head up straight. Do not teach him how to wallow in self-pity.

You can do it, although it is hard.

God bless,

Happyheart
Are you NC with the OM?
rocksolid,

Did you expose yourself? Did you offer to take a polygraph?

Perhaps more importantly did you expose OM, there has to be a downside for OM or it's just too crushing for your BH. Was he your boss or in some position of authority or trust where he can be fired for what he did?

God Bless
Gamma
**edit**
A reminder to posters that the purpose of this forum is to help posters with MB concepts. Please familiarize yourself with Dr. Harley's concepts before posting to others. I see a lot of personal philosophies being posted here. Any questions, please email me.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
It's definately over for good. He has chosen the girlfriend over me and remains to live with her and is going to divorce me as soon as possible. I saw him the other day at his work and I can't believe when I crumbled at his feet he stood there and did nothing and let my 7 year old son pick me up off the ground.

I was willing to do anything to repair our broken marriage.

I can't go on I am at my lowest of the low and hardly anyone on here is listening to me or replying.

You are going to have to pull yourself together and if you cannot do so, then walk away from your H next time. Not only was your behavior a huge lovebuster, it was not appropriate to do that in front of your poor child.

This is quite a mess due to the fact that there are affairs on both sides and nothing is going to get resolved overnight. The fact is you may have to wait for this affair to die a natural death.

Have you read up on Plan A? You should be Plan A'ing your H any time you see him (making LB$ deposits, avoiding lovebusters) and trying to look like the attractive option. You will do this for a very short time before moving into Plan B if he will not end his affair. And I agree with BH, you should look into getting on ADs. Do not beg plead or demand your H come back to you. All lovebusters.

Originally Posted by pinkstraws
**edit**

I saw this post before it was edited.

Do not argue with your H about the NC letter he sent you. Do not tell him how wrong he is and how unfair this is to your child. That will all just come off as a lovebuster. Besides you need to tread carefully given the fact that you were separated in the first place due to your own affair.

And yes, pink straws, a parent can decide to have NC with another separated/divorcing parent if they wish to. There is nothing "wrong" about that.
In fact it is often encouraged due to the pain, right?
As yet I am not familiar with MB philosphies ( spelt wrong ) but have just begun reading them.

I can address your pain though. it is horrible, it physically hurts and it is hard to function at all. the world is black.
BUT YOU WILL SURVIVE THIS.
My pain was no worse or easier than yours and I survived.
Its time and its working towards what you can be doing to start repairing this marriage. I couldn't but trying helped me. I also slowly began to do little things, little bit of gardening, clean a cupboard and I walsked and walked and waklked and talked and talked and talked.
Time is what you need. and AD if available.
Keep warm, wear warm colours and look after yourself and your son.
Wow so many great replies. Thank you so much everyone. I didn't see the edited posts which I think I should probably be thankful for as I assume they weren't too kind.

Brainhurts - I assume AD means anti-depressants? Yes I have been prescribed them and have started taking them. They are helping me to sleep better at night though I still feel low.

About me exposing his affair - When I confronted the girlfriend I didn't actually say we had been sleeping together, but my husband ending up confessing to her. He then confessed it all to his whole family so everybody knows now. His whole family is standing by him and his girlfriend who lives with him, and they all hate me and want me out of the picture for good. His father served me with the divorce papers yesterday frown

How do I get into Plan B brainhurts? I feel that it's my husband doing all the marriage builders concepts on me. He has sent me a NO CONTACT letter, he seems to be doing Plan B on me by telling me he can no longer see me or have any contact with me and that any contact I have with him he will be showing his girlfriend.

Hi Jedi knight - your advice gives me hope that they may experience conflict if I stay away. At the moment I don't even know when I may see him again as he is not allowed and no one is letting him near me.

Dr Harley still hasn't replied my email. It's been a few days. I'm starting to wonder if he will. The letter to my husband seems a good idea. I think I will write it but not send it just yet.

Hi happyheart - that was great tough advice that I needed to hear and which I have realised as soon as it happenned. You are completely right that I should have held it together for my son. He shouldn't have seen that at all and I regret it. I am his rock and he needs me to be strong. I will not repeat that performance. I love my son so much, we have a very special bond and I WILL be the best mother I can be someone he can be proud of.

TheRoad - yes I am NC with OM. This happenned over a year ago. I had emailed him and told him we cannot talk anymore and that I was selfish and needed to save my marriage. I then deleted my whole email account that I had been using to talk to him. I deleted and blocked his phone number from my phone. I no longer go on the website forum that we met on.

Gamma I did not expose OM. He has noo authority, he is not a boss anywhere, in fact still lives at home with his mother and father and is nearly 40 (I still feel so ashamed at getting involved with someone with no obvious goals in life). I did give my husband the OM's name and address a long time ago as I think he was going to contact him but I do not know if my husband did this or not.

SusieQ - Yes I will not act this way in front of my child ever again. He is a child and deserves to be a child. He should not have to deal with adult situations.

Just wondering SusieQ - how would I go about making Love Bank deposits to my husband if I don't get to see him? His family is making it very hard and WILL NOT let him be near me AT ALL. He is having my son on the weekend but I fear he will be getting picked up by someone in his family as he has mentioned this in an email. And my son has his sports lesson on Saturday which we both always go to and watch. I don't think his girlfriend is even going to allow him to come because she knows I will be there. I think she may well insist to come along too. He is being watched like a hawk and well protected as not to be near ME frown

I really want to make some love bank deposits but find it extremely difficult when I can't see him. Do I just take any chance I get if I do happen to see him?

What love bank deposits could I make that are very quick in case I only see him for a few minutes?

thank you toni999 - yes I am on the AD, only for two days now but sleeping is becoming easier. I have made a list of things that I can do with my life to make my life better and move myself forward. I'm really stumped with the love bank deposits though as I don't get to see him.

Thanks again everyone for your wonderful advice it is most appreciated.


At least for me, step 1 actually for you would be to affair-proof your M from your end. If you haven't adequately done this, then I personally would not be willing to help you Plan A your H.

Not to mention, this may carry some weight with your H.

When was your last contact with the OM? Who was he and how did you conduct your affair with him (list all the ways and be specific - email? FB? texting?)

How did you end the A and when?

Thanks.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
TheRoad - yes I am NC with OM. This happenned over a year ago. I had emailed him and told him we cannot talk anymore and that I was selfish and needed to save my marriage. I then deleted my whole email account that I had been using to talk to him. I deleted and blocked his phone number from my phone. I no longer go on the website forum that we met on.

Ok, I just saw this.

Did you ever have contact again after you told him that you wanted to end the A?

Does your H know that all these EPs were put into place?
Susie - last contact with OM over a year ago just before my husband and I started seeing each other again. Husband and I started seeing each other again just after he moved this girlfriend into his home (our marital home).

When my husband and I were still living together as husband and wife I would often go on a website that had forums. This is where I met the OM. We started off talking through the website private messaging. This then progressed to emailing. There was never facebook. We later started talking on the phone. During the time I was living with my husband I did not meet the OM in real life. I think this went for about 7 months or so.

My husband and I began fighting all the time and I didn't want to make love to him. I take full responsibility for this as I know it was because I was having an EA. I will not make excuses. This is what it boiled down to.

I moved out into a house that my husband bought for me and have been paying rent to him.

The week I moved out my husband went on a dating website and met the girlfriend and started dating her. He said he wanted to feel wanted again.

My husband kept trying to get me back and I cruelly didn't let him.

After about 7 or 8 months after moving out I met OM in real life. It took so long for him to meet me because he was so shy and scared and inexperienced.

Our EA then became PA. This went on for a few months, me driving to his house to see him over an hour away.

One night I sent OM a text and I accidentally sent it to my husband. My husband was understandably very upset about it.

I started realising I could not continue with the loser of the OM. His true colours were coming to light and I realised he had no goals or ambitions and was going to sponge off his mother and father for the rest of his life.

I started ignoring his phone calls and text messages and didn't want to speak to him anymore.

I ended it via email. Told him I could not continue the relationship. I did not give him a chance to reply. I deleted my email account and deleted his number from my phone. I knew that he would not turn up to my house as he didn't even have his own car to drive over. The only time he came to my house was on the train that took 3 hours and he complained how far it was, so definately no chance of him turning up at my house.

I cancelled my membership with the website I used to go on and gave it up because I knew that OM would still be on there.

Pretty much after that my husband and I started seeing each other again but he was still dating the girlfriend at this time.

But it was a little too late as he had already promised the girlfriend that she could move in with him and said that he couldn't tell her no.

He said he thought it was over for us and that was why he asked her to move in.

So she moved in. So practically the whole time she has lived with him, my husband and I have been seeing each other.

He kept promising me that we would be together and he felt sorry for her and didn't have the heart to throw her out. I kept waiting but she remained there. He said he was trying to be mean to her and not spend time with her in the hope she would leave so he wouldn't have to be the bad guy.

But it never happened. After promising me to last week it was definately over between them and then telling me again that it wasn't, that was when I confronted her.

I don't think my husband knows the exact details of how I ended it with the OM, but he does know there is no contact anymore.

I hope I have answered all your questions.



I just received a goodbye email from my husband. He loves me and misses me but does not want to jeopardise the relationship with his girlfriend.

He will be divorcing me and I won't be able to do anything about it.

He will no longer be able to talk to me as his girlfriend will be putting a tracer on his phone and be recording all his calls.

All the steps to keep the affair partner away is now being done to me his wife.

I can't go on. I love him with all my heart. Please help. Oh how I wish I had saved my marriage when I had the chance. Oh how I wish I had never confronted her and I would have at least still had him in my life.

So sad he wouldn't stand up and tell his family he loved me :((

So full of sorrow :-((

p.s. I'm also scared because my husband knows Doctor Harley's books like the back of his hand and wanted me to do all his concepts and things that he is now going to do this program with the girlfriend.

I know she will probably do everything to keep him and scared she will make all the right love deposits and he will fall so in love with her and forget about me.

He's already doing the radical honesty by handing his phone over and allowing her to put a tracker on it.

He doesn't love her I know this, but now he has chosen her do you think he is going to start loving her if she does all the right things and he tries really hard to love her and do the right things for her too?

Any more advice in how to Plan A my husband when I don't get to see him would be greatly appreciated. So desperate to get back my love.

Here is a thread that I thought you could read, the BW was the WW first:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=162991&Number=2482050#Post2482050

There should be one or more radio clips linked in there where she got advice from Dr Harley to Plan A her WH.

I think you should definitely talk to Dr Harley yourself because there are differences, one being that you are out of the house and he lives with the OW and, two, the incident where you crumbled. It may be time for Plan B already. He will be able to tell you that.

If they haven't responded to your email, send another. It couldn't have gotten put into their spam filter (that has happened to me before).
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Any more advice in how to Plan A my husband when I don't get to see him would be greatly appreciated. So desperate to get back my love.

RS, you realize nothing is going to get fixed overnight, right? You may very well just have to wait for this A to die a natural death.

In the meantime, be prepared any time you might see him (children's sporting events) look good, be calm, take care of yourself and Plan A your children.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
p.s. I'm also scared because my husband knows Doctor Harley's books like the back of his hand and wanted me to do all his concepts and things that he is now going to do this program with the girlfriend.

I know she will probably do everything to keep him and scared she will make all the right love deposits and he will fall so in love with her and forget about me.

He's already doing the radical honesty by handing his phone over and allowing her to put a tracker on it.

He doesn't love her I know this, but now he has chosen her do you think he is going to start loving her if she does all the right things and he tries really hard to love her and do the right things for her too?

If he was "doing MB" with OW, then he wouldn't be living with her and he wouldn't have been carrying on with you behind her back. And he most certainly wouldn't be having an A!

They are in a renter's relationship -- these relationships don't work out in the long term.

RS, you are going to have to really read everything on this site and learn about this program. There is a lot of information on living together before marriage and the renter's mentality in the Q&A articles. Read, read and read.

Don't just come here looking for quick answers and solutions without doing the work of learning, OK?
rocksolid, I would echo Susie's suggestion that you email Dr. Harley directly, and I would include the material in this post:

Originally Posted by rocksolid
p.s. I'm also scared because my husband knows Doctor Harley's books like the back of his hand and wanted me to do all his concepts and things that he is now going to do this program with the girlfriend.

I know she will probably do everything to keep him and scared she will make all the right love deposits and he will fall so in love with her and forget about me.

He's already doing the radical honesty by handing his phone over and allowing her to put a tracker on it.

He doesn't love her I know this, but now he has chosen her do you think he is going to start loving her if she does all the right things and he tries really hard to love her and do the right things for her too?
Another suggestion, RS: I think you should see your doctor (just your regular MD) about antidepressants for the short term. When you are feeling hopeless and can't see a solution to your problems, that is usually a symptom of depression, and antidepressants can actually have the effect of helping you to get out of that box and see solutions.

This is straight Dr. Harley advice gleaned from many many hours of listening to him on the radio.

Which, by the way, I suggest you (and everyone on this forum) do as well:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
p.s. I'm also scared because my husband knows Doctor Harley's books like the back of his hand and wanted me to do all his concepts and things that he is now going to do this program with the girlfriend.

I know she will probably do everything to keep him and scared she will make all the right love deposits and he will fall so in love with her and forget about me.

He's already doing the radical honesty by handing his phone over and allowing her to put a tracker on it.

He doesn't love her I know this, but now he has chosen her do you think he is going to start loving her if she does all the right things and he tries really hard to love her and do the right things for her too?

If he was "doing MB" with OW, then he wouldn't be living with her and he wouldn't have been carrying on with you behind her back. And he most certainly wouldn't be having an A!

They are in a renter's relationship -- these relationships don't work out in the long term.

RS, you are going to have to really read everything on this site and learn about this program. There is a lot of information on living together before marriage and the renter's mentality in the Q&A articles. Read, read and read.

Don't just come here looking for quick answers and solutions with doing the work of learning, OK?

You are getting good help from one of the best, here, rs!

When my wife and I started Marriage Builders, Steve Harley told us to "embark on a program of education" about the information here - and he was right! It took a long time to put everything together for our specific situation, but everything we needed was right there.
SusieQ - you are giving me such good advice and I sincerely thank you. I am going to read the links you gave me and learn and learn and learn everything I can.

I know there is no quick fix and I am willing to read and learn all I can and do all I can to try and salvage our marriage.

Even if we are divorced,I will not give up.

I am definately in it for the long haul. This I am sure of.

I am going to resend my email to Dr Harley

I can tell from your advice so far that markos is right that I am getting advice from the best! I am so grateful to you and all the kind posters on here.

I hope one day I may be able to offer someone advice and support too.

Markos you are absolutely right about the anti-depressants. I have already been prescribed them and have been taking them for three days now. They are helping me to sleep better but still find myself breaking down but I guess it is only early days yet.

I feel so blessed for everyone's kind support.
Who was your affair exposed to BTW? And how old are your kids?
I just wanted to reassure you RS, that your H may THINK he is following MB but he most assuredly isn�t. This relationship has started out as a live-in renter's relationship with no commitment, he has lied to her and after moving her in he made her the OW in a marriage deceptively. She was a) OK with dating a recently separated married man and b) being cheated on by her renter live in boyfriend.

Does this sound like a relationship to you where no one fights? I bet they fight like cat and dog. I'm not concerned about them. They have made you their common enemy. But if you disappear for a while, they will start to pick on each other.

I am a bit concerned about your Plan A. You were allowing him to cake eat between you both, which is not Plan A. Plan A is about standing tall and not taking any nonsense. I think he may have lost some respect for you during this period.

I'd stop running after him and being dramatic. I'd send one letter offering a reconciled marriage but making it clear YOU refuse to speak to him while he is with the woman he dated while married. I'd tell him it hurts too much and you respect your marriage too much to allow him to cake eat. Send her a copy too so she knows they have no 'common enemy' any more.

Then I would go NC on your terms, and ignore his laughable attempts at 'NC'. Just make sure you are not exposed to him because it will just increase your pain. Then you must build a really good, admirable life for yourself. A life that is attractive and will be welcoming like a lighthouse. This could be a draw for him at the right time.

I doubt his faux-Plan B will be dark enough to avoid hearing such news about you. It's only being done to appease his girlfriend. Plus his relationship will certainly hit the fan at some point. You building a better life and standing tall could draw him back. It may not - but you have to accept that possibility because you did have an affair.

His attempt to do MB is laughable and should be ignored. You should only concern yourself with a) drawing a clear line in the sand that you will not share him and b) ensuring NC so you can build a good life, and be the lighthouse.
Would it be appropriate for her to do her own exposure about the details and erroneous affair that she took part in, by talking with his parents directly, especially after she completely cuts off any ties with current/recent OM?

Would this and additional EP's begin to demonstrate her acceptance of her previous role in how things played out and displat by actions to her H, that he may find an inkling trust beginning to show itself?

I think it would make him think about her new behaviors spoken through actions, instead of just words.

LTL
When did you send your email to Dr. Harley? If it was longer than a week ago, I would hit Notify and let the MODS know and they will let the Harleys know.

Here's a good thread.
Buyers, Renters and Freeloaders
Hi Brainhurts

I have had a reply from Joyce. She has promised to reply to me on Monday the 21st. I feel very blessed.

I have also included what you said markos :-)

Susie do you mean my affair with the OM? My husband told everyone in his family, including the kids. Everybody knows. A while after it happenned I also confronted his parents though they already knew, and apologised for my actions and admitted what I had done.

I have told my parents and my friends. I have owned my actions.

I have a 7 year old son and a 17 year old daughter. My daughter is from a previous relationship. My son is with my husband.

Just a bit of information: My husband's girlfriend is also still married to her husband. She is only seperated as well and living with my husband.



Indiegirl thank you for your reassuring advice. It is very helpful for me. From what I know they did fight a lot and she is very jealous and insecure.

Right from the start she told him that he should have no relationship with me whatsoever, that our relationship should be a business relationship and she didn't even want him coming into my house and sitting on the couch as she said it was inappropriate as she deemed me as a 'single woman'.

Yes I am ready to dissapear on him and do NC. Be strong and be the better option and do not become emotional if I see him.

I am reading so much at the moment and trying to work out exactly everything I need to do. I have bought a journal to journal my thoughts and ideas and plans into.

I am looking forward to Joyce's reply on Monday. She said I won't be able to be on the radio as the time difference doesn't work but am so grateful she will be replying. I will post the link to what she says as soon as I hear.

I am so grateful to you all here the advice has been amazing more than I could have hoped for.

I am ready to plan and do what I can no matter how long it takes.

The pain I put my husband through with my affair was something I never want to put him through again. I was so selfish and cruel and heartless and I will spend my life trying to make up to him if only I get the chance.
Indiegirl

Do you think it is possible for my husband to turn from a renter into a buyer? Doing everything he can to make the relationship with girlfriend work?

He basically told me he was going to rebuild his relationship with her. I know he will try to use Dr Harley's concepts.

Will this work or just be destined for failure do you think?

I am very reassured by your post that this will not work.
So sorry for all the questions - if I do the NC letter to my husband and tell him I want to reconcile our marriage and will no longer see him while he is with the girlfriend as it hurts too much - he will definately know I am using MB concepts on him.

With him knowing this and knowing my every move - will it still work?
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indiegirl

Do you think it is possible for my husband to turn from a renter into a buyer? Doing everything he can to make the relationship with girlfriend work?

He basically told me he was going to rebuild his relationship with her. I know he will try to use Dr Harley's concepts.

Will this work or just be destined for failure do you think?

I am very reassured by your post that this will not work.

A very small number of affairs become marriages. Dr Harley refers to them as affairages.
In a recent Radio Show he spoke about affairages and said that he is unaware of even one that turned out to be a great marriage.
And he has actually tried to help them save their affairage!

Now your husbands case isnt a typical affair because you were separated for 2 yrs.
However he may desire to have a great marriage with this woman. But their behavior is a renter type behavior.
Its possible they could become Buyers. Harley makes it very clear that people can change behaviors.
However it is extremely unlikely.
It actually sounds crazy for him to say he is rebuilding hia relationship with her, as she is also married.

Neither of them are making rational decisions.

Your husband is a broken record, as I recall isn't your marriage to him an affairage?
Originally Posted by rocksolid
So sorry for all the questions - if I do the NC letter to my husband and tell him I want to reconcile our marriage and will no longer see him while he is with the girlfriend as it hurts too much - he will definately know I am using MB concepts on him.

With him knowing this and knowing my every move - will it still work?

I would think that it is showing that you have learned about MB. Which is a good thing for your BH to see this change made in you.

Though you will be getting to hear from the Harley's soon. So sit tight.
Hi Jediknight

I don't quite understand you saying my marriage to my husband is an affairage? When we first married there was no affairs on either of our parts. He was divorced from his first wife and I was single and had never been married.

In the goodbye email that my H sent me the other day he said he would honour his promise to me that he would never marry the girlfriend.

This is my only hope I have in getting him back. That's why I asked about the renter/buyer thing. I hope my husband doesn't become a buyer frown
Hi TheRoad

Yes I am hoping he will see a change in me. So hard when he is not allowed near me!

I feel so sad that he always used to come and pick up our son and have a chat or we would talk on the phone about our son, and come to all his events, and now my son is suffering and his daddy won't come because he's not allowed to see ME. My son is used to this and now he doesn't have it.

I wish so much I had never had the affair in the first place.

How do I even go into NC with my husband, if I need to communicate about our son, for example letting him know when he has something on, or organising when he is seeing him? Am I allowed to send brief texts or emails or does this defeat the purpose of NC? Just wondering if it's different when their are children involved?

Also about the divorce thing - I have been served with the papers. I do not want the divorce. I have spoken to my lawyer and because we have been separated over a year apparently he can get the divorce whether I sign the papers or not. Do I just give in? I don't want to take it lying down but feel I have no choice.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indiegirl

Do you think it is possible for my husband to turn from a renter into a buyer? Doing everything he can to make the relationship with girlfriend work?

He basically told me he was going to rebuild his relationship with her. I know he will try to use Dr Harley's concepts.

Will this work or just be destined for failure do you think?

I am very reassured by your post that this will not work.


He's told you so himself.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
In the goodbye email that my H sent me the other day he said he would honour his promise to me that he would never marry the girlfriend.


This is not someone who is working towards being a buyer. This is someone who is rolling around in their cake eating and loving every minute. It will blow up spectacularly.

When you send him the NC letter I would say that his making promises to you like this is painful and you cannot be kept on the back burner any longer. I'd send her a copy of the NC letter too with a copy of this email so he can see how he is using her.

I have to say that his being a BS does not excuse this kind of behaviour. Even though my WH put me through hell, I would never have looked at someone else during my one-year separation pre divorce. It was not fair until the fat lady sang. I would never do what happened to me to my worst enemy.


Originally Posted by rocksolid
How do I even go into NC with my husband, if I need to communicate about our son, for example letting him know when he has something on, or organising when he is seeing him? Am I allowed to send brief texts or emails or does this defeat the purpose of NC? Just wondering if it's different when their are children involved?


I'd get a friend to mediate by email. Set up a non negotiable schedule of when he can have the children and arrange for them to be picked up at a neutral point where you won't see him.

Then let it get into a routine where not much interaction is necessary.

He needs to give your intermediary 48 hours notice if he cant make it for any reason. He can only cancel, he can't switch days and change the routine. Always have back up childcare in case he does not show.

He can't have you meeting his FC need and discussing the children and being flexible if he is going to treat you like this. You'll have a nervous breakdown.

Give him a realistic picture of what divorce will look like.

I'd get Dr H's opinion first as your case is slightly unusual and I'm interested to hear what he has to say.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Also about the divorce thing - I have been served with the papers. I do not want the divorce. I have spoken to my lawyer and because we have been separated over a year apparently he can get the divorce whether I sign the papers or not. Do I just give in? I don't want to take it lying down but feel I have no choice.


I'd do whatever you need to do to protect yourself legally. A D is not insurmountable. There are people who recovered and remarried post divorce. In fact it is very common because many affairages blow up and the WS goes home.

Is there any benefit to you in your signing? If you dont need to, why should you?
Thanks Indiegirl

So I should send the NC letter and straight to Plan B? I don't really see how I can Plan A when I don't see him.

I'll have to have a think about who could be my IM? Husband already seems to have one - sending his daughters boyfriend to pick up my son today. I will have to think of someone who can communicate with him via email.

I won't start any plans till I hear from the Harleys on Monday but am getting prepared and thinking what I have to do.

You're right Indiegirl about me signing the divorce papers. There is really no benefit so think I will just leave it. I really can't deal with that at the moment anyway.
I'd wait for Dr H's opinion because there are few things which are a bit different here. Just get prepared for a separation and get legal advice. Line up a possible IM.

I'm interested in what Dr H will say as it's not a 'true' affairage as they got together after you left, however it has ALL the features of an affairage. Deceptive, abusive, untrusting.

I'm sure there are other BS's who have had similar extra marital affairs after a separation. I would guess it's also fairly common for those BS's to cake eat, and play the spouse off against the newcomer, because they are not really over their spouse.

I don't think we see much of them here because many people don't regard that as an affair (in these sad days). I also think BS's like your H who doesn't hear what he wants to, (end your Revenge Affair) stop posting.

However I am sure Dr Harley will have seen this many times and will have great advice for you.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Jediknight

I don't quite understand you saying my marriage to my husband is an affairage? When we first married there was no affairs on either of our parts. He was divorced from his first wife and I was single and had never been married.

In the goodbye email that my H sent me the other day he said he would honour his promise to me that he would never marry the girlfriend.

This is my only hope I have in getting him back. That's why I asked about the renter/buyer thing. I hope my husband doesn't become a buyer frown

Didn't you meet your husband on an internet dating website while he was separated from his first wife? That's what he posted on his thread.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Indiegirl

So I should send the NC letter and straight to Plan B? I don't really see how I can Plan A when I don't see him.

I'll have to have a think about who could be my IM? Husband already seems to have one - sending his daughters boyfriend to pick up my son today. I will have to think of someone who can communicate with him via email.

I won't start any plans till I hear from the Harleys on Monday but am getting prepared and thinking what I have to do.

You're right Indiegirl about me signing the divorce papers. There is really no benefit so think I will just leave it. I really can't deal with that at the moment anyway.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I'd wait for Dr H's opinion because there are few things which are a bit different here. Just get prepared for a separation and get legal advice. Line up a possible IM.

I'm interested in what Dr H will say as it's not a 'true' affairage as they got together after you left, however it has ALL the features of an affairage. Deceptive, abusive, untrusting.

I'm sure there are other BS's who have had similar extra marital affairs after a separation. I would guess it's also fairly common for those BS's to cake eat, and play the spouse off against the newcomer, because they are not really over their spouse.

I don't think we see much of them here because many people don't regard that as an affair (in these sad days). I also think BS's like your H who doesn't hear what he wants to, (end your Revenge Affair) stop posting.

However I am sure Dr Harley will have seen this many times and will have great advice for you.


Indegirl gave you a lot of good advice. The best thing to do is to wait in DR H.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Jediknight

I don't quite understand you saying my marriage to my husband is an affairage? When we first married there was no affairs on either of our parts. He was divorced from his first wife and I was single and had never been married.

In the goodbye email that my H sent me the other day he said he would honour his promise to me that he would never marry the girlfriend.

This is my only hope I have in getting him back. That's why I asked about the renter/buyer thing. I hope my husband doesn't become a buyer frown

Didn't you meet your husband on an internet dating website while he was separated from his first wife? That's what he posted on his thread.

Are you fudging the facts? If so you were the OW and you are in an affairriage.
Hi TheRoad and JediKnight

No I didn't mean to fudge the facts. It was over ten years ago when I found out he wasn't divorced. I admit I was one of those people who thought that if someone was seperated then it wasn't classified as cheating. Of course I know now this isn't the case.

When I met my husband on the internet dating site he told me that he was divorced from his first wife. I had no reason not to believe him. They had been separated for years and living miles away so I assumed it was true he was divorced.

It was only about a year later when we were engaged and planning our wedding and his ex spilled the beans to me that they were not yet divorced that I found out. I confronted him straight away and he told me the truth. I was very hurt that he had kept this secret for me for so long especially since we were to be married and it was nearly the end for us.

He then got the divorce straightaway and she wanted it as well so signed immediately. I don't know why he didn't tell me straight up when we met. He had listed himself as 'divorced' on the dating website so I didn't think to ask for proof.

So yes I guess you can say that we did have an affairage. It was not something that I openly knew about though. By the time I found out we were about three months away from getting married.

This was all about ten years ago now. As I said back then I was one of the people who thought if you were separated then it wasn't cheating. It was a long time ago that I thought this, and marriage builders has taught me different. My views have now changed.
So maybe your WH hasn't changed so much. He was okay with dating you and lying about his marital status and now he's doing it again.

Are you going to get yourself into Plan B?
Hi BrainHurts, I am starting to make my Plan B. Just waiting to see what Dr Harley has to say. I'm scared he is going to tell me that is over and I have no chance.

When in Plan B, what should I do if I run into my husband at our son's sporting lessons? Smile, act like the better option? Or completely ignore him?
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi BrainHurts, I am starting to make my Plan B. Just waiting to see what Dr Harley has to say. I'm scared he is going to tell me that is over and I have no chance.

When in Plan B, what should I do if I run into my husband at our son's sporting lessons? Smile, act like the better option? Or completely ignore him?
Once you're in Plan B you will have complete NC from your WH. You may have to go to alternating days for your son's events.

Isn't OW still married? Have you talked with her BH?
Hi Braninhurts

Yes the OW is also still married. I have no clue who her husband is, don't know where he works or what his name is.

My husband has only told me limited info like that he was an alcoholic and she suspects that he may have cheated on her.
My husband said that she hates him and yells at him all the time. I don't know why they still aren't divorced?

Apparently they've been separated for a while and when she told him she was moving in with my husband he was very upset and crying about it.

That is all I know. She has kids with him and the kids are now living with her and my husband 50/50 and their father has them the other half. I know she has little contact with her husband and doesn't talk to him hardly at all unless it's regarding the kids.

I have no other information
I think you need to spend your energy in finding the BH. He could be a good advisory in breaking up the affair.

He can also help expose on her side. I wouldn't believe anything OW or your WH says about their marriage. It probably is all untrue and made up from OW.

So how can you throw a wrench into their affair? You know OW's name, correct? Have you done a background check? It should give you her BH's name.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi TheRoad and JediKnight

No I didn't mean to fudge the facts. It was over ten years ago when I found out he wasn't divorced. I admit I was one of those people who thought that if someone was seperated then it wasn't classified as cheating. Of course I know now this isn't the case.

When I met my husband on the internet dating site he told me that he was divorced from his first wife. I had no reason not to believe him. They had been separated for years and living miles away so I assumed it was true he was divorced.

It was only about a year later when we were engaged and planning our wedding and his ex spilled the beans to me that they were not yet divorced that I found out. I confronted him straight away and he told me the truth. I was very hurt that he had kept this secret for me for so long especially since we were to be married and it was nearly the end for us.

He then got the divorce straightaway and she wanted it as well so signed immediately. I don't know why he didn't tell me straight up when we met. He had listed himself as 'divorced' on the dating website so I didn't think to ask for proof.

So yes I guess you can say that we did have an affairage. It was not something that I openly knew about though. By the time I found out we were about three months away from getting married.

This was all about ten years ago now. As I said back then I was one of the people who thought if you were separated then it wasn't cheating. It was a long time ago that I thought this, and marriage builders has taught me different. My views have now changed.

I hope you included this info in your email to Dr Harley as it may affect his advice
Locate that poor man and share all the information you have. I wouldn't be surprised that the OW is stringing her BH along like your husband is doing to you.
Hi everyone

I don't think I would be able to find the girlfriends husband. I have googled her name but find nothing. I don't think there's any use me exposing her because all her family and friends know that she is living with my H, and they all condone it. I know this because my husband tells me that he's met all her family and friends and they all love him and are happy for her that she has met such a great man (my husband). They all know she is living with him and he is separated from me.

And her husband knows they are living together too.

No one basically cares what she is doing!

My son is so angry and upset at my husband. He's angry because my husband has not seen him all week only briefly this morning when he is so used to seeing his dad 50 percent of the time. What kind of woman demands that a father not be able to see his son because of me?

My son really hates the OW now and doesn't want anything to do with her.

I am the one now doing everything for my son and my husband is not helping out AT ALL. He was always so involved with EVERYTHING regarding my son and now my son is suffering. I fear this will ruin my son and his dad's relationship. I feel so sorry for my little boy. It breaks my heart to see him so sad. At the moment he doesn't even want to see his Dad because he is so upset with him.
RS, I think I understand now why this relationship looks like it is an affairage. It is one!!

Dr H has said relationships began during separations don't have all the hallmarks of an affairage. Its the deception of a spouse that makes them that.

The description she gives of her BH is EXACTLY what a WW would say.

I wouldn't pay any attention to what your H has told you about everyone loving him etc. They may not have the full facts about him. He would also want to deter you. Don't you find it strange he mentioned this at all?

Can you get hold of her BH and exchange information between the two of you?

It's good news if it is a full affairage because it won't last.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
And her husband knows they are living together too.

But you haven't spoken to him. Are you seriously taking your Hs word?
Hi Indie

No i haven't spoken to her BH. I really don't know how I could do this because I don't even know his name, where he lives or anything about him.

My husband and the girlfriend were both separated when they met on the dating website and not divorced so guess that they are in affairage you are right. Is that classified as full affairage?

So you say it won't last but I thought someone on here said that sometimes they do last according to Dr Harley?

Are there any statistics as to how many last?

I have a dilemma. My H is taking my son to school tomorrow. I always go Monday morning to go to my son's assembly.

I still want to go to assembly. He relies on me to go.

Do I wait for my H to drop him off, wait till he leaves the school grounds and then go to assembly so I don't see my H?

Or do I go in when he's dropping him off and see my H? I know H will be alone and it may be my only opportunity just to see him and tell him I love him. I am hanging so much just to see him and look him in the eyes.

I haven't gone into Plan B yet and I just want to see him so much because I am so in love with him and missing him like crazy.
Can I do this as one final ditch effort before I go into Plan B?

Or should I just back off?
Until you are in Plan B, you should be in Plan A
Do not appear clingly or start crying at his feet.
Dress attractively, wear perfume and be formally polite
Thank you JediKnight. I'm scared he will get angry that I turn up as he told me he wants NC.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thank you JediKnight. I'm scared he will get angry that I turn up as he told me he wants NC.


Another really ridiculous stance from your H. If he was REALLY implementing NC, it is his job to enforce it and make sure he doesn't run into you.

I take it more as he knows where you are and turns up on purpose. He wants excuses to get angry so he can demonise you.

I will be in lifetime NC with my XH and I would not leave it up to him to respect what I want!! i wouldnt purpsefully go somewhere he is likely to be and then blame him for breaking NC. I wouldnt blame him for anything, it's up to me.

More and more his behaviour appears like that of someone who betrayed you and is trying to make you the bad guy. How long was it after you left the house they got together; a week? I smell a rat with that story.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Indie

No i haven't spoken to her BH. I really don't know how I could do this because I don't even know his name, where he lives or anything about him.


Isnt it the same as her name? In the UK we have public reocrds which shows you where people lived in different years and who they lived with. Can you access information like that were you are? Some people have said Intelius is good. Use her name to find his name.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
My husband and the girlfriend were both separated when they met on the dating website and not divorced so guess that they are in affairage you are right. Is that classified as full affairage?


It's the thoughtlessness and selfishness of deceptive affairs that is the undoing of the affairage relationship.

No it may not have started as a true affairage (although it is quite likely that it actually did) , but you're forgetting he did juggle you both for a period. I would say that qualifies it as an affairage. Dr H may give you more insight.

About 95 per cent of affairages end in two years after NC from the BS.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Do not appear clingly or start crying at his feet.
Dress attractively, wear perfume and be formally polite


I'd go along with this. If he scowls at you, smile and if he is rude just walk off. He wants to see either desperation or to provoke your anger, so I would just be maddeningly cool.

If you are cool enough you will see that his behaviour is actually quite ridiculous.
Hi Indiegirl

While we were still living together and I was ready to move out,he put himself on the dating site. He did it in front of me before I moved out. He said it was his last ditch attempt to get me to stay.

I really feel terrible for the pain I caused him.

I believe it was only a couple of weeks after I left that he met with her.

In the end I know it's all my fault for having the affair and leaving in the first place.

I feel like H is already Plan B'ing me. He sent me an email that was nearly word for word what Dr Harley suggests in SAA book.

He's doing a good job in having no contact with me, absolutely refusing to have any communication face to face or via phone. He told me that his girlfriend will be putting tracking device on his phone so she can see where he is at all times and all texts and emails will be shown to her.

How do I Plan B when he is already Plan B'ing me!!

I think i will Plan A for a short time and then go to Plan B. Unless Dr Harley suggests something different.

I hate the fact he is treating me as the affair partner/lover and treating her like his wife when she isn't his wife!

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Indiegirl

While we were still living together and I was ready to move out,he put himself on the dating site. He did it in front of me before I moved out. He said it was his last ditch attempt to get me to stay.

I really feel terrible for the pain I caused him.



BINGO!!!! I knew it was an affairage. He is behaving just like a WH. Affairages begin selfishly and as an affront to the M. I remember describing it as a Revenge Affair to your WH on his original thread. He weasled out of that description by saying he was separated and didn't know about your A.

However it is clear he started snouting around for an OW to punish you before the marriage ended and for revenge. He is still punishing you imo.

There is no excuse for that. While your A was terrible and painful and you should own THAT, you should not accept responsibility for his reaction. There are plenty of BS who do not do what he is done and is doing.

In fact I have never seen such cruel punishment from a BS. But that's what hapens when you go wayward.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I feel like H is already Plan B'ing me. He sent me an email that was nearly word for word what Dr Harley suggests in SAA book.

He's doing a good job in having no contact with me, absolutely refusing to have any communication face to face or via phone. He told me that his girlfriend will be putting tracking device on his phone so she can see where he is at all times and all texts and emails will be shown to her.

How do I Plan B when he is already Plan B'ing me!!


Believe me he is not.

I have done Plan B and it requires integrity and self respect. It requires high boundaries around members of the OS. It requires a high respect for marriage.

I NEVER would have punished my WH with my own extra marital affair. Or by shacking up with whomever I could find online with no respect for marriage either. That is completely abhorrent.

He most certainly would not get any guidance here for THAT. If you allow us we can coach you into a true Plan B.

I'd be prepared for anything when you see him as I think he is dead set on punishing you. He may bring her to rub that in your face. If anything gets too much, smile and leave, ok?
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Indie

No i haven't spoken to her BH. I really don't know how I could do this because I don't even know his name, where he lives or anything about him.

My husband and the girlfriend were both separated when they met on the dating website and not divorced so guess that they are in affairage you are right. Is that classified as full affairage?

So you say it won't last but I thought someone on here said that sometimes they do last according to Dr Harley?

Are there any statistics as to how many last?
Why won't you do a background check on the OW like I suggested? Check court records to check their marriage?

It should give you her BH's name.
Here.
Affairage Radio Clips
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Indie

No i haven't spoken to her BH. I really don't know how I could do this because I don't even know his name, where he lives or anything about him.

My husband and the girlfriend were both separated when they met on the dating website and not divorced so guess that they are in affairage you are right. Is that classified as full affairage?

So you say it won't last but I thought someone on here said that sometimes they do last according to Dr Harley?

Are there any statistics as to how many last?
Why won't you do a background check on the OW like I suggested? Check court records to check their marriage?

It should give you her BH's name.

You do not have many options. So why are you not moving mountains to find the OWH?

There are internet sites that charge a fee. Worth the fee to expose to OWH. Just because your BH/WH claims things about the OW you can not believe him.

If that draws up a blank. Then hire a PI.

You are at a big disadvantage. You have very little to use left in your arsenal. Yet you will not try to use the best thing that you have, exposing the OMW.

Exposing the OMW may not work.

Though it is a guarantee that not exposing will not help you.
I want to stay in Plan A for a while.

This morning I went to my son's school to attend his assembly as I do on a weekly basis. I am a part of the school community and my son enjoys me coming. I won't give this up.

My husband came and dropped off my son. This is the first time I have seen him on his own since everything blew up last week.

I felt so good and confident within myself. I was wearing my husbands favourite dress and had his favourite perfume on. He looked at me and I gave him a big smile and he smiled back at me.

He had so much love in his eyes for me and he told me he missed me. I kept smiling and had chit chat with him. He told me I looked good and I said So do you with a big smile on my face.

I did not mention anything about OW or our current situation.

I remained very strong and was not emotional and did not do any love busters. I remained calm and smiling. I felt so confident. I know that he loves me.

I told him that I will be there every week for our son's assembly which is the day my husband will be dropping our son off. He said okay.

I am 90 percent sure that he will not tell the girlfriend that he saw me today.

When he left I said to him ' i am here if you need me' all done with a friendly smile on my face. I was very composed.

If I see him next week I will do the same and smile and look fantastic and be the better option.

I feel great today how strong I was.

I think he would have definately noticed the change in me today and been thinking of me after he left. This is good right?

The OW is probably love busting and making demands of him but I am going to be the strong and happy one.

Did I do the right thing? I felt I did. I actually felt very powerful.
Make sure not to remain in Plan A too long. Three weeks is the maximum for women.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I want to stay in Plan A for a while.

This morning I went to my son's school to attend his assembly as I do on a weekly basis. I am a part of the school community and my son enjoys me coming. I won't give this up.

My husband came and dropped off my son. This is the first time I have seen him on his own since everything blew up last week.

I felt so good and confident within myself. I was wearing my husbands favourite dress and had his favourite perfume on. He looked at me and I gave him a big smile and he smiled back at me.

He had so much love in his eyes for me and he told me he missed me. I kept smiling and had chit chat with him. He told me I looked good and I said So do you with a big smile on my face.

I did not mention anything about OW or our current situation.

I remained very strong and was not emotional and did not do any love busters. I remained calm and smiling. I felt so confident. I know that he loves me.

I told him that I will be there every week for our son's assembly which is the day my husband will be dropping our son off. He said okay.

I am 90 percent sure that he will not tell the girlfriend that he saw me today.

When he left I said to him ' i am here if you need me' all done with a friendly smile on my face. I was very composed.

If I see him next week I will do the same and smile and look fantastic and be the better option.

I feel great today how strong I was.

I think he would have definately noticed the change in me today and been thinking of me after he left. This is good right?

The OW is probably love busting and making demands of him but I am going to be the strong and happy one.

Did I do the right thing? I felt I did. I actually felt very powerful.

You nailed it in my opinion you did well. The fact that he won't tell her is what will be the undoing of his affair. Lies, demands and not being radically honest and practicing the POJA is the death of all relationships. Pay a site on the internet for a background check on POSOW. You will have a address, phone number of POSOW's husband. Then do a background check on him and voil�! Get all your evidence make copies and expose! Exposure is part of plan A.
I don't understand exactly what I'm supposed to expose to the OW'S husband? They have kids together so he knows where she lives and what she is doing.

Am I exposing that my husband and I have been seeing each other behind her back for the past year? Try and get him on side to break them up?

I really can't afford to get a PI and in my country it is hard to find things out just by googling it frown

I already searched online phone directory but don't have a clue what town he lives in. I couldn't even search the marriage records as it only allows you to search historical records no later than 1962.
I don't feel strong anymore.

Once again kicked to the kerb and don't know what to do.

After my husband wanting NC he rang me today and said he had a missed call and was wondering if it was me.

I said no it wasn't me.

We got into discussion and he told me that he sees no way of us ever being together in the near future.

Kindly told me that his whole family hated me and he doesn't see how I would ever be able to change their minds and they are a big influence in his life.

He told me is trying to make it work with OW and has slept with her this week.

I am soooooo devestated and out of control I don't know what to do.

He said he's in love with me but cannot find a way that we will ever be together again.

When I saw him this morning I had hope. I saw the love in his eyes. Now he has broken my heart all over again.

I can't stop crying. I feel so helpless.

I told him I would do anything I can to get our marriage back and he said I could try but he doubt it would work.

I told him I was doing MB and that I was going to talk to Dr Harley and he laughed like he couldn't believe it.

I told him he was having an affair and he said 'Well yes the people on marriage builders would say that'. I said I am still your wife and you are having an affair. He said I know Dr Harley's books say that but none of my family see it that way.

I said to him 'You used to believe in Marriage Builders and Dr Harley's book' And now you are just making excuses.

I think my marriage is over. He told me he actually enjoys the OW company but never told me cause he didn't want to hurt me!

And then he said to me 'I admit it. I am a cake eater'.

He never used to be a cake eater when he was with me. Our love was special and true.

I am so devestated and feel like giving up. His family obviously hate me and would not allow me to come back. What's the point anymore!!!

I keep trying to convince myself he still loves me and when I saw him I could see it in his eyes. But I'm starting to doubt it now.

So low now. I feel I'm back to square on. How do I go on and keep trying?

My heart is breaking all over again. I told him it shouldn't be up to his family and he said they have a big influence and will not allow me back :((
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I don't understand exactly what I'm supposed to expose to the OW'S husband? They have kids together so he knows where she lives and what she is doing.

Am I exposing that my husband and I have been seeing each other behind her back for the past year? Try and get him on side to break them up?

I really can't afford to get a PI and in my country it is hard to find things out just by googling it frown

I already searched online phone directory but don't have a clue what town he lives in. I couldn't even search the marriage records as it only allows you to search historical records no later than 1962.


Can you get a PI to track him down?

In your shoes, I would simply say you want to know how his marriage ended and if it involved adultery to his knowledge. Then tell him what facts you know of. Tell him the stuff being said about him and say you didn't buy it.

This woman is going to be around your kids, so get a PI to do a background check.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I don't feel strong anymore.

Once again kicked to the kerb and don't know what to do.

After my husband wanting NC he rang me today and said he had a missed call and was wondering if it was me.

I said no it wasn't me.

We got into discussion and he told me that he sees no way of us ever being together in the near future.

Kindly told me that his whole family hated me and he doesn't see how I would ever be able to change their minds and they are a big influence in his life.

He told me is trying to make it work with OW and has slept with her this week.

I am soooooo devestated and out of control I don't know what to do.

He said he's in love with me but cannot find a way that we will ever be together again.

When I saw him this morning I had hope. I saw the love in his eyes. Now he has broken my heart all over again.

I can't stop crying. I feel so helpless.

I told him I would do anything I can to get our marriage back and he said I could try but he doubt it would work.

I told him I was doing MB and that I was going to talk to Dr Harley and he laughed like he couldn't believe it.

I told him he was having an affair and he said 'Well yes the people on marriage builders would say that'. I said I am still your wife and you are having an affair. He said I know Dr Harley's books say that but none of my family see it that way.

I said to him 'You used to believe in Marriage Builders and Dr Harley's book' And now you are just making excuses.

I think my marriage is over. He told me he actually enjoys the OW company but never told me cause he didn't want to hurt me!

And then he said to me 'I admit it. I am a cake eater'.

He never used to be a cake eater when he was with me. Our love was special and true.

I am so devestated and feel like giving up. His family obviously hate me and would not allow me to come back. What's the point anymore!!!

I keep trying to convince myself he still loves me and when I saw him I could see it in his eyes. But I'm starting to doubt it now.

So low now. I feel I'm back to square on. How do I go on and keep trying?

My heart is breaking all over again. I told him it shouldn't be up to his family and he said they have a big influence and will not allow me back :((


FIRST rule of dealing with waywards: NEVER BELIEVE A WORD THEY SAY.

He is purposfully controling his family with lies. That could change whenever he wanted it to.

This was just his chance to kick you and beat you down. He wants to live with OW and for you to wait patiently and desperately on the sidelines.

Did I not tell you he was going to try and punish you again?

You need to get your Plan B prepared asap, you can't keep taking this type of abuse and remain well.

While I think you did GREAT calling him on his hypocrisy, you should have walked away.

You can't educate a drunk and you should not be watching his addiction at its ugliest and worst.

Hugs.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I told him I was doing MB and that I was going to talk to Dr Harley and he laughed like he couldn't believe it.

What a scumbag. You see how affairs change people?

The next time he calls up for a 'missed call' or other excuse, say this:

"I'm not really in the mood for a chat with OW's boyfriend. If you are calling as my husband you can put the NC letter to her in the mail and I might consider talking to you then."

I think you've done enough Plan A carrot but not nearly enough Plan A stick.

And get into Plan B pronto.
Rock, this is so clearly a REVENGE affair.

He got her specifically for the purpose of inflicting punishment on you.

While in Plan A, he will continue to cake eat and punish you.

But in Plan B, when you have utterly disappeared, she will just turn into a very useless revenge tool. There's no point owning a knife when there is no longer anyone to stab.

In your plan B letter (which you should copy OW into), I'd raise a little hell between them.

I'd say 'when you called me out of the blue to talk about us on xday morning it was too painful for me to endure. You even said you wanted to go on having two women to cake eat with. This is why I have changed my phone number'.

I'd also say: "When you complimented me at school on xday afternoon, it hurt deeply while you remain in your affair. You will not see me again until your A ends".

Throw a grenade into the A and disappear.
I so agree with Indie.

Let OW see that her Prince Charming is a cake eater. If she has any sense (and she might not....) she'll kick him to the curb. Maybe then he'll sober up.

Love the comment "throw a grenade into the A and disappear". Great advice.
I did not realize that you and your WH had started dating while he was still married. This changes things a lot.

Clearly, we already knew your H had a renter's mentality but he also does not value marriage very much.

His family's support of his waywardism is also a big problem.

RS, I am so sorry to tell you that not only would I want to see your H (1) completely end his A with OW but also (2) come to you on bended knee, remorseful and willing to make changes and (3) have NC with his family until such time that you would be enthusiastic about it.

Agree that you should go into Plan B asap.

You did a great plan A at school. Keep doing the best plan A until you speak with Dr Harley.

No point in going into plan B and then you talk to Dr Harley and he wants you to still plan A for now. You doing flip flops shows WH that whatever you say will not matter.

However if your WH calls up and starts in on talking about OW tell him if he wants to talk about us, the kids find, otherwise you have to go and hang up.
I'm quite sure Dr H is going to recommend Plan B for you Rock, so can you get it lined up? I'm sure Dr H will make other points but I can't see him advising you continue to prop up the cake eating.

Separate finances, get someone to pick up/drop off the children, get back up childcare, see a lawyer (just for guidance re separation, kids and whether you should counter file a D), and set up a visitation schedule routine you will want to enforce.

You will also need an intermediary. A good one with this master manipulator. Do you have a good, level headed friend? Someone neutral? We have a training thread here.

Read the link in my sig for Plan B.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I'm quite sure Dr H is going to recommend Plan B for you Rock, so can you get it lined up?

Agree.

TR, I don't think I have ever heard him recommend it continuing Plan A in circumstances like these. If she was still living with him, of course, she would continue in Plan A until she could get him out.

The only other time I have heard him recommend extending Plan A is if the BW was doing well emotionally, but it is pretty clear from RS's postings that that is not the case here.

And RS, do not take that personally. Dr Harley doesn't recommend more than a couple of weeks of Plan A for a woman because it is so incredibly stressful and potentionally damaging for your health.

Men do not like to be pursued anyway. You have made it clear to your H that if he was to end his affair and return to the M that you would be willing to make changes (you even told him you were learning MB). That is the main purpose of Plan A. I think any more interactions with your H will just lead to lovebusters.
Thanks everyone.

I don't know who I could have as my IM. I don't think any of my friends would be willing to do it or get involved. Does it have to be someone who lives close by?

My H already seems to have an IM getting other members of his family to drop our son off.

I want to Plan B and just disappear. I'm so scared. What do you do if you do run into husband in Plan B? Like out shopping or something?

Joyce said she was going to answer my letter today but I haven't heard anything and I think the show has already aired? I tried to listen to the rebroadcast on the internet but I could not find anything? Was really counting on hearing her reply today?

Has anybody heard if she answered me? Thanks
I heard your question on the Radio Show today;
Dr Harley encouraged you to enter Plan B immediately.
Wow thank you so much JediKnight. Do you know if there's a link up yet? I can't find one and haven't been emailed anything. Thanks
Also we can't seem to agree on child arrangements for our son eg: pick up and drop off.

I am considering mediation so we can agree on things.

If we do mediation that will mean I have to see him. I don't want to see him if I'm in Plan B but I need to have a parenting plan in place and I'm not going to just lie down and agree to whatever he says.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Wow thank you so much JediKnight. Do you know if there's a link up yet? I can't find one and haven't been emailed anything. Thanks

Click the link on the right side of the page that says listen now. It will be continuously rerun for 24 hours until the next days broadcast begins.

Then someone who has paid access to the archives can post a link for you to refer to in the future, which seems to take about 1-2 weeks before the archived episode is available.

I am going to listen to your segment now.

LTL
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Also we can't seem to agree on child arrangements for our son eg: pick up and drop off.

What are some of the issues? Maybe we can help you come up with a solution/s.

Why can't the drop off/pick up be at the school? What has the visitation schedule been for the past year?
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I'm quite sure Dr H is going to recommend Plan B for you Rock, so can you get it lined up?

Agree.

TR, I don't think I have ever heard him recommend it continuing Plan A in circumstances like these. If she was still living with him, of course, she would continue in Plan A until she could get him out.

The only other time I have heard him recommend extending Plan A is if the BW was doing well emotionally, but it is pretty clear from RS's postings that that is not the case here.

And RS, do not take that personally. Dr Harley doesn't recommend more than a couple of weeks of Plan A for a woman because it is so incredibly stressful and potentionally damaging for your health.

Men do not like to be pursued anyway. You have made it clear to your H that if he was to end his affair and return to the M that you would be willing to make changes (you even told him you were learning MB). That is the main purpose of Plan A. I think any more interactions with your H will just lead to lovebusters.

I am not against plan B. I am against her going to plan B before she talks with Dr H. It is in her best interests to wait for Dr H.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I heard your question on the Radio Show today;
Dr Harley encouraged you to enter Plan B immediately.

I just read this. Green light to me.
Originally Posted by TheRoad
I am not against plan B. I am against her going to plan B before she talks with Dr H. It is in her best interests to wait for Dr H.

Understood.

I was just pointing out that the more I thought about the circumstances in this case (they are already separated and he is living with OW) I am pretty sure I have heard Dr Harley say across the board to go into Plan B. I am pretty sure I have heard him say he wouldn't ever recommend more Plan A in this situation.

At first, when I posted the CaliSun thread to her, I thought her WH may still be upset about her A and feeling unsafe with her, unsure about her willingness to meet his ENs. But that was not the case at all here.

And it takes to to get into Plan B anyway. Posters were encouraging her to start the Plan B process which can take a couple of days.
She is sort of already in Plan B, albeit by her H's doing, but now she needs to concentrate on plugging the holes.

The contact or phone conversations are to be met with the stock answer of, Once The OW is out of our home, then we can talk, per Dr. Harley on todays show. She was not advised to write a N/C letter and just become dark until the H does the right thing.

LTL
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Wow thank you so much JediKnight. Do you know if there's a link up yet? I can't find one and haven't been emailed anything. Thanks

You can listen to the Rebroadcast on the Marriage Builder website until about 1 pm New York Eastern Standard Time
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Also we can't seem to agree on child arrangements for our son eg: pick up and drop off.

I am considering mediation so we can agree on things.

If we do mediation that will mean I have to see him. I don't want to see him if I'm in Plan B but I need to have a parenting plan in place and I'm not going to just lie down and agree to whatever he says.

You should contact a lawyer.
Tell the lawyer you have been advised by a clinical psychologist to have no direct contact with your husband.
I just listened to Dr Harley's advice for me. It feels like there is no hope anymore.

I don't know to rebuild my life. I can't see my life getting any better.

I know I have to do the NC now.

Our visitation with our son has always been 50/50. On the nights he had our son he would come here every morning and we would both get him ready for school then I would take my son to school every day. I also picked him up from school every day and H would come and pick him up from my place after work when it was his night with him.

Now it's all changed and H has been dropping our son to school in the mornings when it's his turn so he doesn't have to see me and wants to pick him up from school on his nights as well.

So now I don't get to take him every day and pick him up. I'm used to this and so is my son. I'm part of the school community and is this is MY thing that I do with my son. I feel like I am being pushed away from the school.

I won't allow it. I need to be my with my son. We have a special bond, at the moments he's all I've got and I don't want my time taken away from him.

I feel helpless not being able to get him ready for school and get him organised and have him ready and make sure he has everything. My husband always forgets things and or he won't have what he needs for my son.

I'm going to write out a plan that I want and email it to him. If he doesn't agree then I am going to arrange mediation to get it sorted. I did tell my H that I am not going to just accept his terms because he says. We need to both agree.

If it goes to mediation then I will have to see him and I don't want to see him because it is so painful and heartbreaking.

Do you think my H will ever come out of the fog? He said he is content with girlfriend.





Do you think my H will ever come out of the fog? He said he is content with girlfriend.

--------

Numbers don't lie.
Statistically he stands a very small chance of success in his relationship .
However even when he comes out of t he fog there is no guarantee he will committl to being a "buyer"

My impression is that he grabbed on to MB during your affair but didn't buy into th program and that he will go through his life this way.

I suggest you focus exclusively on parenting at this point.
Also KEEP YOUR BOUNDARIES.HIGH.
I have read of others being in mediation without having to see each other. The H and W are set up in separate rooms and the mediator goes back and forth to address and readdress the issues open for negotiations.

LTL
Thank you everyone.

I have emailed my husband a proposal of what I want regarding our son. It is kind of NC letter too. I told him if he is not in agreement with my proposal then I will organise the mediation.

I was very composed in the letter and factual in my proposal regarding child arrangements.

I ended the letter with this:

Unfortunately I can no longer talk to you while you continue to be in a relationship with OW. It is too painful for me to endure.

I love you with all my heart and hope one day our marriage can be repaired.

Love always
rocksolid.

Is this okay?
What have you decided to do about pick ups and drop offs? Is it happening at school or a third party's house?

Some Plan Bers just have their kids walk outside to the WS's car if they are old enough. As long as you stay out of sight and don't peek it is fine.

I realise that your WH doesn't do things the way you like and is forgetful, but you have to let him stand (or rather fall) on his own two feet now. You just have to concentrate on your own parenting when DS is with you, and just accept that WH has his own parenting to do when he is with him. Whether it is good or bad is up to him.

An IM is imperative. Don't send your Plan B letter before you have all your ducks in a row and an IM to respond to WH. Then change all your contact details.

I'd be willing to be your email IM if you are stuck for someone, but all you need is someone cool and calm and who can learn some easy steps on our training thread. I used an MBer for my IM.
I don't know if this has been said but you should drop all your friends and family that supported your affair. Whether or not you reconcile, people like that never want you to do well and thrive on drama and misery all the while pretending to care.
I had already emailed the letter to him frown

He hasn't responded yet. I went through each day what I proposed to happen. It involves him picking him and dropping him to school some days and me picking him and dropping him most days.

I proposed that 2 of the days that his daughters boyfriend ONLY would come and pick him up from my home. He has already been doing this so thought this could continue to work.

I also said that my H is still free to come to my son's sport lessons as we have always done this and my son likes us both being there. I stated that if we are both there then I will not be sitting with him or talking to him.

I don't think I can completely get out of seeing him once a week at my son's lesson. I don't want to miss out seeing my son's lesson. I'm the one who takes him to the lesson every week and I can't stop my husband turning up.

I told him that any communication would be via text message or email.

Should I change that and tell him it will be through an IM?

Indie that would be great if you would be an IM and very kind of you. But was wondering if it would work if you are in a different country and times are different? I think I am 10 hours ahead of you. So if my husband or I had a question or issue they wouldn't get an answer for ten hours or maybe longer?

So for that reason I think I will be more inclined to find someone close by to me. But thank you so much!

Is there any way I can do this without an IM?
Tranquil no one really knew about it as we kept it well hidden.
Thank you learnedtoolate. I am hoping that it won't come to mediation as it costs a lot of money. But that is helpful to know that we don't have to be in the same room.

SusieQ - I actually still read the Calisun thread you gave me. I still found it helpful and gave me a tiny bit of hope. Just reading all I can right now.

I will find it very hard to wait two years and see what happens.

At the moment I am very lost and don't know how to move forward with my life. Everything seems hopeless.
Dr Harley encouraged you to enter Plan B.
In Plan B you would have no direct contact with him.
Use an IM Block his cell phone, email etc
Okay Jedi. I'm just so new to this and finding it difficult. I have a friend I can ask to be the IM.
Is there any links to info about the thoughts of a WS or being in the fog? I seem to remember seeing some but can't find anywhere. Thank you so much everyone for helping me all the time. I so appreciate all your advice.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I also said that my H is still free to come to my son's sport lessons as we have always done this and my son likes us both being there. I stated that if we are both there then I will not be sitting with him or talking to him.

I don't think I can completely get out of seeing him once a week at my son's lesson. I don't want to miss out seeing my son's lesson. I'm the one who takes him to the lesson every week and I can't stop my husband turning up.

This will be a big crack in your Plan B. If you are serious about Plan B, this can't happen. I am not sure the solution, but this won't work. Just so you know, if you aren't in Plan A or Plan B, then you are in Plan C which is the most likely to lead to divorce.


Quote
I told him that any communication would be via text message or email.

Should I change that and tell him it will be through an IM?
Yes, there needs to be an IM. In addition, you will need to change your cell phone number and email or at the very least block him.


Please don't send any other letters until you have all these loose ends wrapped up. ANd post what you are going to send (redacting any personal info) before sending. I wish you had done that with the first letter. What did you list as a condition of recovery?
Hi Susie

I don't know how to work around our son's sporting lessons. I don't want to have to give up watching him and I'm sure my H won't either.

I didn't list any condition of recovery. I just said while he was with her I cannot remain talking to him.

And the thing with changing my cell number - When my son is at H house I always call my son to say goodnight. Vice versa my H usually does the same when my son is with me.

Do I have to give up saying goodnight to my son so as for H not to have my phone number anymore?

I'm really struggling to do this right
Keep your eyes on the long-term goal. It is best for your son if you succeed in repairing your M. It is best for your son, if the marital repair doesn't succeed, that you are sane and the best mom that you can be.

Both of those options require a truly dark Plan B.

No more Monday Morning Peeksies, no more sporting events that both of you attend. No more contact of any sort, direct or indirect. That is the best for your son. He'll survive the other changes, but needs you to be his rock. You can only be that for him if you're dark.

Contact = you groveling and crying on the ground in front of your child

NC = you strong, and implementing necessary changes with grace and poise

Which do you think is better?
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Is there any links to info about the thoughts of a WS or being in the fog? I seem to remember seeing some but can't find anywhere. Thank you so much everyone for helping me all the time. I so appreciate all your advice.

Just Google, "Wayward Spouse Fog" and you will get the picture. The top links are not from MB, but they accurately describe the always present phenomena.

<<<<EDIT>>>

LTL
Rock, you can't both still go to the sports lessons. That simply won't work and that sort of half-serious attitude to NC will just make him laugh and continue to view you as on-the-side-cake. Plan B is COMPLETELY dark.

He's already made a laughing stock of his own 'plans' by continuing contact after claiming he's going to go NC. If you follow suit with the exact same 'Plan C' approach, not only will it not work but he won't take it seriously at all.

Show him how to laugh on the other side of his face because you can do MB the RIGHT way. You have a higher integrity than he can even dream of right now.

You can a) exclude him, and let him find things to share with DS on HIS parenting days. Or b) you need to simply not go. If you choose not to go, you could have someone (another parent? Teacher? Coach? Friend? Relative?) tape it. That way you could make it part of a movie night with your son under a blanket watching popcorn once a week or something. Be creative.
.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I had already emailed the letter to him frown

He hasn't responded yet. I went through each day what I proposed to happen. It involves him picking him and dropping him to school some days and me picking him and dropping him most days.

I proposed that 2 of the days that his daughters boyfriend ONLY would come and pick him up from my home. He has already been doing this so thought this could continue to work.

I also said that my H is still free to come to my son's sport lessons as we have always done this and my son likes us both being there. I stated that if we are both there then I will not be sitting with him or talking to him.

I don't think I can completely get out of seeing him once a week at my son's lesson. I don't want to miss out seeing my son's lesson. I'm the one who takes him to the lesson every week and I can't stop my husband turning up.

I told him that any communication would be via text message or email.


I wouldn't consider the note you sent a plan B letter. It wasn�t even informing him of your intent to go NC, because you PROMISED him contact at sports days!! You are even allowing texts.

I would consider the note you sent him merely a way of seeking a visitation agreement prior to your proper Plan B. It's good actually beause it will make a true Plan B come as even more of a surprise.

If he doesn�t come back with an agreement (he probably won't prefering to continue hassling you on a day to day basis), you need to enforce your own visitation schedule.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indie that would be great if you would be an IM and very kind of you. But was wondering if it would work if you are in a different country and times are different? I think I am 10 hours ahead of you. So if my husband or I had a question or issue they wouldn't get an answer for ten hours or maybe longer?

So for that reason I think I will be more inclined to find someone close by to me. But thank you so much!

Is there any way I can do this without an IM?


An IM is an absolute must. She must also read the training thread.

Even if your IM is close by, I'd still put a cancellation deadline in place. He must give her 48 hours notice to cancel his turn with visitation. And no swapsies to other days. He turns up or misses out. Also have back up childcare in place for no-shows.

I've been an IM for many different people parallel parenting in different countries and nobody has died yet by being forced to get organised. If you are not ruthlessly organised, he will screw around with your routine merely to annoy you.

You mention the goodnight call, which is a common problem. One thing my IM ( a Canadian lady) used to do in her own Plan B is she gave her boys a special phone for sleepovers. WH could cal the boys at her house (she never answered) and she could call the boys at WH's house (but protected her number so it never showed on her sons' phone).

Originally Posted by Neak
Keep your eyes on the long-term goal. It is best for your son if you succeed in repairing your M. It is best for your son, if the marital repair doesn't succeed, that you are sane and the best mom that you can be.

Both of those options require a truly dark Plan B.

No more Monday Morning Peeksies, no more sporting events that both of you attend. No more contact of any sort, direct or indirect. That is the best for your son. He'll survive the other changes, but needs you to be his rock. You can only be that for him if you're dark.

Contact = you groveling and crying on the ground in front of your child

NC = you strong, and implementing necessary changes with grace and poise

Which do you think is better?


This, x 1000.

We want your son to have a safe, strong, happy mother who is not being hurt any more. That is our priority.
I wouldn't give him your IM's phone number either. She should stick to email only. I'd be glad to help her out if she ever gets stuck or needs advice, too. Just ask the mods for my email.

My first time as an IM, Melody Lane and Scotland helped me out. It's an easy job, but it's reassuring to have back up.
Great advice Neak I needed to hear that. Keep my eyes on the long time goal.

I'm so tempted to try and see him just one last time... how I do get past this? I miss him so much.

And thanks learnedtoolate for the links.

Indiegirl I think we are going to do alternate days with the sports so we don't see each other. Me do one week and he does the next. I like the idea of the special phone. I think we will agree that my son will answer the phone and I will not speak to H.

I know Dr Harley advised that I don't send a NC letter but he didn't say if i should send the Plan B letter. I guess this just comes as part and parcel of doing Plan B?

I just need to get the parenting plan settled and agreed on then will be ready for Plan B. I don't plan on seeing him when I'm getting it all organised.



Don't worry too much about 'agreeing' a plan with him.

If he wanted to have a flexible co-parent in you, he shouldn't be having a revenge affair. FC is one of the former needs you met he is going to miss very soon in plan B.

Its nice for you to offer now as part of your Plan A and could make things more seamless later. However you're going to have to realise that in Plan B he will not be cooperative and will turn up wherever/whenever he chooses to get you to break NC. You will need to be prepared for that.

You will likely either need to enforce his absence or choose not to go yourself.

Personally I think you are being far too nice letting him go at all.

But if you are dead set,try it. If he abuses the privelege to mess around and try to break your NC, you can ask staff not to admit him at all in future from then on.

Sometimes the schedule is given as an addendum to the Plan B letter.

The Plan B letter gives him a roadmap back to the marriage. Use the template. Also copy in OW to cause trouble in the A before you go.

It will drive her nuts to know he was too much of a cake eater to enforce NC. So much so he's harassed you to the point you've had to do it yourself.

The letter will make it clear that SHE interrupted a separated couple who were discussing reconciliation, she will be cast in her rightful role as mistress because of his cake eating.

And there's nothing he will be able to do to appease her. He won't be able to do NC, because you've already done it all.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Great advice Neak I needed to hear that. Keep my eyes on the long time goal.

I'm so tempted to try and see him just one last time... how I do get past this? I miss him so much.

And thanks learnedtoolate for the links.

Indiegirl I think we are going to do alternate days with the sports so we don't see each other. Me do one week and he does the next. I like the idea of the special phone. I think we will agree that my son will answer the phone and I will not speak to H.

I know Dr Harley advised that I don't send a NC letter but he didn't say if i should send the Plan B letter. I guess this just comes as part and parcel of doing Plan B?

I just need to get the parenting plan settled and agreed on then will be ready for Plan B. I don't plan on seeing him when I'm getting it all organised.

Dr Harley addressed this.
Joyce asked: Does she need to send a Plan B letter?
Dr Harley answered: No, just have no contact with him
If you do end up sending the (optional) Plan B letter, do not refer to the OW by name. She is either the "mistress", or better yet, the "adultery partner". Of course CC the OW if you do this.

If you don't send a letter, be scrupulously dark. He'll get the point soon enough, and you can have your IM contact him with any necessary kid-related info.
Hi everyone, What does FC mean? Is it frequent contact?

If I don't end up sending Plan B letter how do I tell him I will be having an IM who will be relaying messages?

Do I just send him an email and tell him this?

I am thinking I DO want to do a Plan B letter.

This is what I am considering -

Organise mediation for childcare arrangements. Do not be in the same room as him. Put in the clause about 48 hours notice being given for change of plans. No swapping days if he can't make it.

When this is sorted, send Plan B letter. Tell him about IM and give her email address. Then close my email account so he can't email me. Do not give him my new email address.

Organise my son his own special phone to leave at his dad's that I can call him on when he is over there. It will have no credit on it just one where I can call him.

Go completely dark and do not show up anywhere that he is going to be.


Regarding CC ing the OW IN - I don't have her email address. Should I just send the letter to his house because I know she will be reading everything?

Indiegirl - I think i will get you to be my IM if you are still willing please? Thank you so much for offering. Once mediation is over i will let you know. Thank you
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi everyone, What does FC mean? Is it frequent contact?


Family commitment. When you offer co-parent support you are meeting the need of FC. In Plan B you aren't supposed to meet any of his needs.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
If I don't end up sending Plan B letter how do I tell him I will be having an IM who will be relaying messages?

Do I just send him an email and tell him this?


You could do. Does anyone have the link to the show where Dr H advised no Plan B letter? I would like to hear exactly what he said before I go on putting my opinion in here. I'm also wondering what conditions Dr H advised he meet and whether those conditions should be outlined as part of a letter/email or some other way.

If he said absolutely no letter, you could send a brief note introducing your IM, and saying no contact. She would then do the rest.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indiegirl - I think i will get you to be my IM if you are still willing please? Thank you so much for offering. Once mediation is over i will let you know. Thank you


Happy to.

Just let the mods know you want my email.
Indie, to answer your question;
There is no link yet; her call was ln the radio this week.
Her husband already sent her a Plan B letter and Joyce kind of laughed when she asked Dr Harley if rocksolid needs to send one back.

The impression I get was that Dr Harley was concerned primarily about rocksolids health and encouraged Plan B. He said she didn't need to send a letter because he's already given her one.

The husband is familiar with MB and has read Harley s books.
Harley stated if the husband contacts her (or IM) to explain that he needs to permanently separate from the OW prior to rocksolid meeting with him
Have you read this? There is a link in there about Parallel Parenting. It will help you.
How to Plan B Correctly
Thank you for the link brainhurts. I think we finally have a plan in action. It involves me doing the sports on my days and him doing the sports on his day. Drop off and picks up from school / or me dropping him to my H house, son walking in on his own and not seeing each other. Sometimes picked up from here, son walking in on his own and us not seeing each other.

Information has been given what my son needs for school and is now up to husband to organise.

48 hours notice needed in advance for any changes and no swapping days.

Me calling son to say goodnight at a certain time each night and only my son will answer.

I have a Plan B letter that I am ready to send. I will include indiegirls email in it when I get it.

I have not sent the letter yet.

I feel the letter I need to do just to make it all very clear.

Just wondering how to do this. H will be picking son up this weekend as it is his weekend. I will not be seeing H, I will send my son out. I am thinking of putting the letter in an envelope and getting my son to hand H the envelope. Would this be acceptable for my 7 year old son to do? My son won't be reading it and will be in a sealed envelope.

I don't want to do by email. I think he will take me more seriously if I do it by letter. And better chance he will show the OW.

Hi JediKnight and Indiegirl

I'm glad you heard the segment Jedi. I don't have a link either but I listened to it a few times and took notes myself and this is what I wrote from it:



Dr Harley Radio Advice

He�s in the fog. Wait for the affair to die a natural death. Wait two years. Don�t wait longer than that.

If he marries her it will be an affairage. It will not be a good marriage. It will be unpleasant. It will be a more fragile marriage. Marriage rocksolid has with him will be stronger than any affair marriage will be.

Just hang on no more than two years
Plan B definitely. No contact with him.

If he tries to talk � I�m not going to talk to you till she�s out of the house. When she�s out of the house let me know. I am not going to talk to you still she�s out of the house. Keep saying this if he tries to talk. Don�t do anything. No contact and get on with your life.
A couple quick things:

Don't have your son hand-carry the letter. Take it out yourself. Might as well plant one last surprise kiss on him if you get the chance.

Don't leave the OW reading the letter to chance. Mail a certified copy to the house, paying extra to have only OW able to sign for it. She needs to see the letter, too.

Drop-offs and pickups sound like they will work fine on your end, but start getting a backup plan in place for WHEN he violates his agreement. Right now, WH is not so good at keeping promises, and that will include being respectful about swapping the kiddo, only having DS answer the phone, etc. Your original plan will probably not be workable long on his end.

Be ready to have someone else pick up DS if need be, and to get a phone for him to call you with WHEN your WH begins to "accidentally" answer the phone when you call at your set time.

And above all, never be rude to him when you come face to face with him unexpectedly. Smile, say hello, and excuse yourself. If he tried to engage you, you simply ask sweetly, "Are you ready to go NC with your adultery partner?" and when he stammers, say something like "When you're ready to do that, we'll have something to talk about." And walk away.

Repeat 2000x as needed.
Originally Posted by Neak
A Be ready to have someone else pick up DS if need be, and to get a phone for him to call you with WHEN your WH begins to "accidentally" answer the phone when you call at your set time. .


I would be prepared for that too. Hang up if he ever answers or give your stock response.

I think he will give up trying to answer the phone if you are consistent with this.

Originally Posted by Neak
Be ready to have someone else pick up DS if need be, and to get a phone for him to call you with WHEN your WH begins to "accidentally" answer the phone when you call at your set time.
.


This is good because he could call you whenever he wanted without WH. However I'd be a bit afraid of WH getting hold of the phone and taking RockSolid's number out.

He could then call and text her as much as he liked from any phone.

However I think there are apps you can use to keep your number private. It's used for people who are online dating etc.
Hi again

Do you think sending a copy of the letter to OW will just make her more determined to keep my H?

I feel she is dead on trying to WIN him and will stop at nothing to make sure I don't win.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi again

Do you think sending a copy of the letter to OW will just make her more determined to keep my H?


I think they are doomed no matter what she thinks/intends right now. I haven't listened to the radio show but I am certain Dr H feels confident this A will die a natural death. I think he is so confident of that he doesn't think a Plan B letter is required (also since your H knows MB and knows the way back)

However (personal opinion alert)I know that my Plan B letter gave me a sense of security. Whenever I got the wobbles (that's the technical term btw)and wanted to peek out of my bunker and break Plan B, I would remember the letter. I would think: "He knows what he needs to do.I don't need to look, he needs to act".

I know the paragaphs I advised you to include regarding his persistent and painful contact will cause trouble between them. I also know it will drive her nuts if YOU are the one being strict about NC because he could not be. It's up to you if you want to throw that dart.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I feel she is dead on trying to WIN him and will stop at nothing to make sure I don't win.


Very astute. I agree completely that she is more interested in competing with you than she is in having him. Once you are out of the picture, she loses. She is left with an unwinnable situation. She ends up being LEFT with him, as you reject his cheating instead of WINNING him.

He becomes the booby prize.
I think you are right on the mark indiegirl in saying she is more interested in competing with me.

He does know the way back if he wants to. I don't even know if I need that Plan B letter. I just need to be very strict with the NC.

I noticed indiegirl how much you help people on these boards. You are appreciated very much!

Yes, she will try even harder after receiving the letter. Her additional efforts will only place the A under greater strain. Because her investment is higher, she'll expect even greater returns. Pretty soon there's even more lovebusting going on, with both parties feeling they should be getting more out of the deal.

From there, it's usually only a matter of time.
Originally Posted by Neak
Yes, she will try even harder after receiving the letter. Her additional efforts will only place the A under greater strain. Because her investment is higher, she'll expect even greater returns. Pretty soon there's even more lovebusting going on, with both parties feeling they should be getting more out of the deal.

From there, it's usually only a matter of time.

So true you see it all the time
Thanks indie, tranquil and neak

You have given me a tiny ray of hope. It's all I have right now
No, Rock you have yourself!!!!

You are a lot more valuable than anything you might lose, here.

All you stand to lose is a gangrenous limb.

One you don't even need. You will come through this happy and whole.

It always tickles me how BS come here saying they 'have nothing' and 'want WS'.

Wonderful, strong, moral people mooning after a diseased heart and mind.

THEY are by far the only thing worth saving!
That is so inspirational and so true indiegirl.
Through my struggle I found that you need two things to make it in order to fight for your marriage. Hope and a plan. You have the best chance of you those things. Hope by itself perpetrates a weak mind into "I have nothing without WS" mind set. If you have a plan with it you feel empowered and optimistic no matter what the outcome is. A plan by itself is only good it's executed, fuel your Plan B with hope but follow it step by step. Modifications = disaster. Your stronger than you know.
I think I probably needed to hear that indiegirl. I need to stop feeling sorry for myself.

And Tranquil I needed to hear that too. I do feel empowered knowing that I have a plan it's just remaining optimistic that is the hard part.
Originally Posted by TheRoad
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I heard your question on the Radio Show today;
Dr Harley encouraged you to enter Plan B immediately.

I just read this. Green light to me.
Here it is.
Radio Clip of rocksolid's question
Thanks so much for posting the link brainhurts.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks so much for posting the link brainhurts.
You're very welcome.

What do you think about Dr. Harley's advice?
Yes I think it's very good and makes sense. A lot of what he said was what people have said to me here too. It's hard but I've realised it's my only option if I want to save my marriage.

I didn't want to Plan B at first but I've realised it's my best bet.
How can we help and support you by getting into Plan B?
Have you read how to do it properly? The link is in my sig.
I've gone into Plan B. No more contact. I was feeling very empowered and strong about it all.

Now I just feel down. I spoke to my son on the phone tonight and he mentioned that he was out at dinner with my husband and OW. What's the point? I feel so sad. Maybe I just need to face reality that he is never going to end his affair frown

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I spoke to my son on the phone tonight and he mentioned that he was out at dinner with my husband and OW. What's the point? I feel so sad. Maybe I just need to face reality that he is never going to end his affair


That's a pretty big Plan B gap. Plan B gaps suck. They drag you right back into affairland. I bet you are feeling like you were THERE right at dinner with them, am I right?

Plug this gap by telling your son not to give you any reports about WH. WH is no longer your business at all and his name is taboo.

Don't fear doing this. My family who still had links with WH were freed immeasurably by my severing the 'gossip' tie. They didn't have to worry about how their actions re WH bothered me.they didn't have to worry about keeping me informed if WH did something. They were free to stop worrying about me as I moved on into a WH free life.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
. Maybe I just need to face reality that he is never going to end his affair frown


Dr H once spoke to a woman who was in my exact same position. No kids, no real ties to bring her WH back if/when the A ended.

He told her that as there weren't any real ties and she was q young she should move on into an entirely new life with an entirely new man.

However he said he was sure that this man WOULD come back if she let him. That surprised me. I knew that all A's end eventually, but I didn't think all WH's came back.

He said she should protect herself against the HIGH likelihood that he would come back in a few years time when his A was dust. She should make it so he can't reach her.

I took this advice to heart and there is no way for my WH to reach me now I am divorced. My Intermediary was instruced not to pass on any post divorce messages. I can't be bothered with that.

There's no reason for you to feel like the A won't end. But right now the priority is YOU.

You are far more precious than any silly wayward and we need to take care of you.

You need to make a happy, no-gaps Plan B for yourself. Just focus on the next six months for now.

Things are unlikely to change within six months so what can you do that is happy and productive for YOU in that time?

When Dr H was answering that woman's question he said: "If I was her father, I'd say: "What's good for YOU right now?"

That's always stuck with me as being the entire point of Plan B.
Wow that's such a good story Indie and advice. Yes I did feel like I was right there at dinner, like I was an intruder.

So I guess in you saying that there is no way for your WH to come back, that means you don't want him to come back? I haven't read your full story.

I do want my WH to come back. I guess he knows where I live right?

The things I want to do in the next six months to focus on myself will be:

Doing a writing course
Spending time with my son
Saving and planning for an overseas holiday with my son
Getting my craft business off the ground
Reading all the books I want to read and watching all the movies I want to watch
Listening to music that is uplifting and not music that makes me sad
Reading as much as I can on MB and learning as much as I can
Being the best mum I can be and giving my son memorable fun happy times.


Six months seems like such a long time right now. It's hard to even see forward till next week.

But I will keep going. I have to.

I've just gone back and re read all the pages from my thread and feel a bit better and stronger again. I think I just need to keep reading and sticking to Plan B so I don't fall by the wayside.

I'm so appreciative of all your posts :-)

I think deep down I do know his A will end but it's the time thing that is killing me wondering when.

I will try and focus on myself for the next six months like you said and just take each day one day at a time.


I love your 6mo plan! Sounds amazing.

But make sure NO GAPS.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
So I guess in you saying that there is no way for your WH to come back, that means you don't want him to come back? I haven't read your full story.

After 2 years of no contact, I don't love him. Don't hate him either, he's just the past.


I don't have any children with him and he does not have any recommendations of good character, now. I would be crazy to consider doing something as tough as a 2-5 year recovery in which the A would get discussed all over again.

I WOULD consider him, even without any feelings of love, if we had children. I trust in Dr H's plan for recovery.

In my position it was easier to go love elsewhere and I am in love now. It's better than it ever has been for me right now.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Six months seems like such a long time right now. It's hard to even see forward till next week.


Yes poor love. You are so close to the epicentre still you still feel the shockwaves. I used to cry a little every day. It was good for me. Then I'd go have fun.
Have you read SAA, the part where Dr H tells John to Plan B Sue?

He said at the 2year point he would no longer love his wife and divorce would be much easier and hurt less, if that is what he chose.

He also said that he would not HATE his wife either, as he would if he'd had a front row seat during the entire A. This makes it possible for the love to be resurrected if his wife came home for recovery.

I've never yet known Dr H to be wrong and he surely isn't wrong about what happens to the lovebank in Plan B, either. You end up neither loving nor hating the wayward.

For me, around the six to eight month mark, I simply stopped caring because nothing recent was happening tying me to those feelings. The feelings became dim memories.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I've gone into Plan B. No more contact. I was feeling very empowered and strong about it all.

When did you go into Plan B? Do you have an IM? Have you changed the ways in which WH can get in touch with you (cell phone/email)?
Susie only this past week. I do have an IM if need be. But all our parenting agreements are in place so we know what the deal is about picking up dropping off etc.

I still have my same cell number so my son can call me or H can reach me in an emergency. I just plan to ignore any texts or calls from him if he happens to do this.

Indie thank you for sharing your story with me. I am so pleased that you have found love again and happier than you ever have been smile

I have read SAA John and Sue's story. I feel like it's very much about my own situation.

You say Indie that around the 6 to 8 month mark your memories became dim memories? That is what I am worried about with my WH. We have so many wonderful memories that I am scared that HE will forget about them. What even makes a WH come back if it's been that long??

What makes them come out of the fog if it's been so long like two years?

Going to read John and Sue's story again.

Rocksolid,

Dr Harley generally recommends that spouses move on after two years.

There are people that waited many years. One lady had a husband remarry his affair partner and then later leave her and return to his first wife.

Nobody knows how this will turn out.

But you need to be emotionally healthy for your son and yourself
Hi Jedi

Do you think I should wait 2 years from now since I started Plan B?

Or since he has already been living with OW for a year now should I only wait a year?

Thanks

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I still have my same cell number so my son can call me or H can reach me in an emergency. I just plan to ignore any texts or calls from him if he happens to do this.


HUGE gap. You're going to stay in affairland this way. The goal is to be completely in the dark about what he thinks/feels/does. You should be unsure of whether he would contact you directly IF he could. You need to know nothing about the state of the A.

Also, he just isn't going to take NC seriously if you have such a big route to contact left open.

I would give your 'in case of emergency' number cell phone to a trusted friend who will alert you if there is any emergency. If WH calls or texts for any flippant reason he should be told the number is for emergencies only. Your friend should not let you know IF he does that.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
You say Indie that around the 6 to 8 month mark your memories became dim memories? That is what I am worried about with my WH. We have so many wonderful memories that I am scared that HE will forget about them. What even makes a WH come back if it's been that long??

Dr H says separation is risky, so its possible they won't. However waywards can't stick to a strict Plan B (as you've seen) because they are so hungry for cake. They don't ever get around to 'freezing' the lovebank as the BS does.

They don't stop listening to news of the BS, they don't stop poring over memories and mementos. They keep the memories alive.

As the BS gets stronger, more independent and more healed, she moves into a very attractive new life. One that makes affairland look like garbage. The WS often sees this but the BS does not look back at what the WS is doing.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Jedi

Do you think I should wait 2 years from now since I started Plan B?

Or since he has already been living with OW for a year now should I only wait a year?

Thanks

Generally the recommendation is two years from date of exposure.
I suggest you enter plan B and re evaluate your position every 6 months.
Once youre away from him for a year you may decide to move on or wait a few more months.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Susie only this past week.

Why did it take you so long to get into Plan B? I am curious given that your WH is already out of the house and already to Plan B you himself, it should have been a pretty easy transition.

What types of interactions have you been having with him for the past couple of weeks?
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I do have an IM if need be. But all our parenting agreements are in place so we know what the deal is about picking up dropping off etc.

I still have my same cell number so my son can call me or H can reach me in an emergency. I just plan to ignore any texts or calls from him if he happens to do this.

So that you are perfectly aware - this is not a good Plan B plan, at all. There are so many gaps that I see contact will be continuing in this case. Is that what you want?

BTW, with continued contact, you will then be in Plan C, which is most likely to lead to divorce.
Susie can you please explain Plan C to me? I don't want to be in Plan C.


The reason it took me so long to get into Plan B is because I didn't feel strong enough. I was down, depressed and crying every day and it all seemed to much to handle. So I didn't get into it straight away.

I saw him at the school a few times and guess I was Plan A'ing him even though I knew I shouldn't have been. Guess I just wanted to show him just one last time what he was missing frown

But all that has stopped now and I'm not going anywhere anymore that he will be.

I'm feeling stronger and feeling ready now to do this.
Jedi I like your suggestion of reevaluating the situation every six months.

Indie i do feel a bit stronger and more independent. I guess I will feel this more so as time goes on and I have no contact.

It's so hard I have people around me telling me to forget about him, telling me I deserve better than him and putting their opinions in and telling me what to do but I don't want to listen to them. I only want to listen to people on the MB forum. It's just so draining when they bring it up all the time. I'm starting to distance myself from these people cause I don't have the energy.
Here you go.
BSs.....Plan C is not a Plan
Originally Posted by rocksolid
It's so hard I have people around me telling me to forget about him, telling me I deserve better than him and putting their opinions in and telling me what to do but I don't want to listen to them. I only want to listen to people on the MB forum. It's just so draining when they bring it up all the time. I'm starting to distance myself from these people cause I don't have the energy.


They are scared because they see you love someone who plans on kicking you around like a football. They want you to take better care. So do we. But we won't argue you into it like scared people who love you.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I guess I will feel this more so as time goes on and I have no contact.
.


But you DO have contact. That phone is like an unexploded greanade. It's only a matter of time before the A becomes a bit stressful. Instead of turning on her, he is going to dial your number and attack YOU. Or cake eat.

You are ruining your plans sitting around waiting for that phone to ring - aren't you? How could you not want him to call you and feel disappointed when he does not.

You need to get to a place where you don't have any idea if he is calling you. Nor do you care.

For that, you need NO contact. And a tough intermediary who won't tell you anything that happens with him unless he kicks her out.


Remember when he laughed at you and said you couldn't do MB? Well I know you can.

Get an IM
Change your number, email, everything
Block him and OW on FB.
Be prepared to leave if you see him anywhere public.
Anyone who mentions his name should be told you don't want to speak of him at all and he is not your business.
Throw any letters or notes away unread.

Don't even read his horoscope. You need to get very serious about this.
You're very right Indie. I am going to change my number and email.
And I will leave if I see him anywhere. I am going to make sure though that I don't see him. I am going to do my shopping further out of town and not go to any places that he could be at.


I don't have to worry about FB because neither me or WH are on facebook.

Brainhurts - WOW thanks so much for posting that link on Plan C. I just read the whole thread and it's exactly what I need. It is real eye opener for me.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
The reason it took me so long to get into Plan B is because I didn't feel strong enough. I was down, depressed and crying every day and it all seemed to much to handle. So I didn't get into it straight away.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm feeling stronger and feeling ready now to do this.

I see. You wanted to follow Plan RockSolid vs the advice that Dr Harley gave you. And it's because you have a deathgrip (stealing this term from Melody) on your WH and wouldn't let go.

No BS needs to "feel stronger" to go into Plan B. The reason you NEED Plan B is because interacting with your WH is not good for your health. You actually had a breakdown due to this interaction.

Do you see this? Because if you don't, you are probably going to keep breaking your Plan B.

You're very welcome. We want to help you stay in a dark Plan B so you can heal.


Originally Posted by rocksolid
I am going to change my number and email.

Good.

Quote
And I will leave if I see him anywhere. I am going to make sure though that I don't see him. I am going to do my shopping further out of town and not go to any places that he could be at.

What about seeing him at the school?

Who is the IM and have they been given the IM training manual? Has your H been made aware of the IM?

Can you get a good, neutral IM to take over any communication? They should read the IM training thread.

All they need to do is tell WH he needs to get in touch with them regarding childcare issues. Do you remember what I said about his needing to give notice if he wants to cancel? How you should also have back up babysitting for no shows? If he no shows or cancels he misses his turn. Keep the schedule as it is.

Once he no longer has access to you he will make trouble. One of the easiest methods is to try to mess with your routine to create a need to talk with you. So you need to make sure that does not happen.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
It's so hard I have people around me telling me to forget about him, telling me I deserve better than him and putting their opinions in and telling me what to do but I don't want to listen to them. I only want to listen to people on the MB forum. It's just so draining when they bring it up all the time. I'm starting to distance myself from these people cause I don't have the energy.


Rock I remember how forcefully people put across their opinions and it IS wearying.

Just remember that if you get in to a 'rock solid' Plan B you won't need to persuade anyone your standards are high and that you won't endure cheating. They will SEE it in your actions.

My dad is the perfect example. He never liked my H and tried everything to prevent my wedding. This was long before anyone thought he could possibly cheat. When he had his affair, my dad said he would never speak to him again if we ever got back together. I didn't argue - he was entitled to his opinion.

Over time he saw I wasn't wavering on my standards and I was getting stronger. It was only a matter of weeks before he asked me what my conditions for recovery were in a less argumentative way. When I told him he agreed that it was a high enough bar and that he would support it.
It's been so long since I've posted that I'm sure I've been forgotten about. I've been lurking and reading posts but I have to say the reason that I haven't posted is I am just too ashamed at the total screw up I've made over the past 6 months.

I tried to go to Plan B and kept failing miserably. I kept talking to WH and seeing him. I disregarded Dr H's advice about Plan B and all the awesome posters on here trying to help me.

I don't know what to say except I'm sorry. I'm so in love with my WH and of course nothing has changed. He is still living with OW.

He has continued to give me false promises and hope. He promised me he would leave her by March 31st. Then the next day he said he was so sorry but he just couldn't do it. He just couldn't hurt her feelings and she has no where else to go. Yet he always finds it easy to hurt his wife and keep putting me second.

He has now said he knows the writing is on the wall for them and he knows it won't last. He said he's miserable with her and doesn't love her. He keeps promising me he will be back. He keeps saying that he wishes she would just leave him so he wouldn't have to be the bad guy to everybody.

He keeps giving excuses saying that he is scared what his family will say because they all love OW. He said he is scared about OW's brothers coming to bash him up if he leaves OW.

He always has excuses saying 'my life is so terrible, I Hate work, my kids hate me, I don't have time to do anything other than worry about work. He said work is his future and he needs to do everything he can at work and can think about nothing else.

I have told him 'What about our future and our marriage and our son'.

He says his life is one big mess and he doesn't know what to do. I feel he just wants to coast along and not do anything about our marriage because to him it's all TOO HARD to work on our marriage. He's too scared about what people think. His whole family condones his A and I do not have one single person on my side. They all want me gone and have welcomed OW as part of the family.

He has told me he hasn't had sex with OW in months. I don't know if this is true. I have slept with him again a few times over the last few months.

We have a parenting plan in place where we meet at a neutral place for pick up and drop off of our son at the same time twice a week. My son walks over to WH's car and then I drive off.

During these pick ups, OW is always on the phone to WH because she still does not trust him. She still has the GPS on his phone tracking his every move. She still does not trust him.

According to my WH, he has accidentally called OW by my name a couple of times recently and she has gone off her head.

From what I can gather she is still insecure, untrusting, LB'ing and wants my head on a platter and still determined to WIN at all costs.

I feel like I am the one in the A with my husband. His whole family has made me feel like this and I am starting to doubt myself.

I know that Dr H says that the A usually ends 6 months after exposure. Well I feel like it's been 6 months since I confronted OW and now it's me and WH that are basically over. And she's still there. So does this really mean that me and WH is the one who is over? I feel like I'm having an A and our A is over.

I can't get my head around this.

For the record he has still not divorced me. Apparently she keeps pushing him to do it but he still won't.

I've spoken to him many times about marriage builders and he kindly informed me that my best bet would be for me to go PLAN B like Dr Harley suggests. I told him that instead of giving me marriage builders advice, then maybe he should follow the program himself and end his A! He then makes excuses' I know , I know, it's not that easy'.

I even told him to come back here and post and he said he wouldn't because he knows what everyone will say. And he said' They don't know what it's like. They haven't lived a day in my shoes.'

He keeps saying he doesn't love her. Then next minute he says' I don't know what I feel about her'. Then he tells me he feels a sense of responsibility to her and her kids. I then ask him 'What about the responsibility to your wife and OWN child'. This he cannot answer.

I've been reading Scotland's amazing posts about when she was in Plan B. I wish for her strength.

I feel I don't know my WH anymore. When I see him and we are together it's my loving husband looking into my eyes with so much love and emotion.

Then he goes to being lazy and a coward and not wanting to do anything about saving our marriage. Just making promises and hoping she will leave.

He said he's always loved me and the plan is for us to spend our lives together. He's just too scared and I feel he will continue to live his life this way. Not happy but not doing anything about it. It's like he has accepted that this is his life now.

Does our marriage still stand a chance? Or have I totally blown it for ever? I do know deep down that he loves me.

If anybody doesn't want to reply that is fine. I know how much I've stuffed it and gone against what everyone said. I had such good intentions.

I'm so devastated. It will be 2 years this September that he has been living with OW.

He has also told me that he is not in the fog at all. He said he knows he wants to be with me, he just doesn't know how. Of course I don't believe that he is not foggy.

If I'm on the phone to him sometimes he will whisper 'I have to go' and know she has turned up. That hurts being put second all the time.

I know how much sense Plan B is. I try for a week and then fail. It's so hard frown

I wish I had done Plan B six months ago and maybe I would be in a better place right now.

I'm going overseas in 7 weeks. I will be going for 2 weeks with my son. I'm hoping it will be time for me to gain perspective and have fun with my boy.

Thanks to anyone who responds to me. I understand if everyone thinks I'm a lost cause who just has no hope in saving her marriage.

If there is no hope for our marriage after the worlds biggest stuff up then please just tell me. I need to know. Thanks





I wasn't going to post ever again as I was too ashamed at what I'd done (or haven't done).

But then I read someones post can't remember who and they said you can't just learn from lurking and reading. That you need support from people on the forum.

So here I am being honest about how I stuffed up again. I just need a hug.

RS we will be happy to support your Plan B. But only you can do it.

If you go into Plan B, we can support you. If you don't we cant. Not because we think you are terrible or anything like that but because it will encourage your H to continue to hurt you and we cant stop that.

1) Tell us what you need to do to cease contact. Do you need to change your contact details? The drop off sounds dodgy as you know what he is doing during it. Can you arrange a drop off without contact?

2) Read How to Plan B correctly and get all preps in place. IM, legal advice, separate finances. Prepare to cut him off if he tries to reach you.

3) Send your Plan B letter about how his indecision is hurting you too much. Say you cannot be in contact with him until he leaves her as he promised. Send OW a copy too. This will be very effective at causing trouble IF you stick to your plan B religiously.

There is still some hope, but not for much longer if you carry on with Plan C. You'll be in the nut house, she will be thrilled and they will get married.

However if you remove the prop you have given the A, it is ripe for ending of its own accord.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I wasn't going to post ever again as I was too ashamed at what I'd done (or haven't done).

But then I read someones post can't remember who and they said you can't just learn from lurking and reading. That you need support from people on the forum.

So here I am being honest about how I stuffed up again. I just need a hug.
Do you really want to use MB?

Are you going to follow the plans?

You have allowed for your WH to cake eat for 2 years and he will continue to do so until you stop it.

You need to stop taking his abuse.

Are you ready to do the hard work?

We are here to guide you if you want to follow Dr. Harley's plans.

So how are you going to do this?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
You have allowed for your WH to cake eat for 2 years and he will continue to do so until you stop it.


I hadn't realised it was 2 years. The A would probably be over by now if the plans were followed. 95 pc end in two years. RS would have mader her own attractive, drama free life, protected the money and made a haven for recovery.

Where do you want to be in the next two years RS?

I would post the OW on www.cheaterville.com and www.playerblock.com; tell your story, be factual and ideally post some proof.

Do it the same time you enter Plan B...
Hi Indie

Thanks for responding. The drop off was his idea. He used to pick up son from my place. He wasn't allowed to come to my door (OW wouldn't let him hence her being on the phone to check). I would send our son out the front and I would stay inside.

But then WH told me he wanted to annoy OW and change the drop off to the local McDonalds carpark. He said this would annoy her to no end, her knowing that I was in the same vicinity as him. It was his way to try and make her angry and somehow leave him.

I don't have anyone who can drop my son off at McDonalds. None of my family or friends live close by or would be even willing. I try not to look at drop off I just let my boy walk to his car and then leave. It takes a lot of will power. I'm not tempted to go to his car or anything cause I know he is on the phone and wouldn't dare talk to me within ear shot of her.

Regarding the Plan B letter. I have already given him two. Then I ended up breaking the Plan B. I feel if I do another one he is not going to take me seriously because he knows I just keep coming back.

Should I just go completely dark and hope he gets the picture.

The funny thing about me trying to do Plan B is whenever I try and do it he always says he respects my decision and doesn't contact me. He says he doesn't contact me because he feels it is best for him to stay away so I can heal.

It's always me breaking it. He seems to just accept whatever I do.

I want to do this so bad.
Hi Brainhurts

I do want to do this. If there's any slim chance of saving my marriage I want to do this.

The problem with me is that no matter the hurt I am going through, I always feel bad like I am hurting HIM. I start feeling guilty to him. Stupid but true.

Hi Jedi

I've never heard of those sites. I don't know if OW or anyone would ever read that as we are in Australia and don't think they are well known here?

The only proof I have is that they are living together for 2 years and his whole family know about it and accept it.

Indie:

Yes it's been going on for 2 years him living with her. Probably even longer as he dated her for about a year before he moved her in.

Does that leave any hope for us since it's been so long?

In two years I would love to see myself fully recovered with my WH and having my son smile again to have his mummy and daddy back together. I want to be living a MB marriage and following the program and having a better marriage than before.

I know it would have probably been over by now if I had done the right things.

Should I get counsel from Steve Harley?



p.s Indie about sending OW the NC letter. I feel if I do this she will tell my WH's family again that he has been in contact with me. I know what his family is like and they will put the pressure on him to divorce me again. They love OW and will do anything to come between us. She will put the pressure on too and knowing my WH is not strong he will give in and he will do it.

I will definately end up divorced if I send her a copy. She is controlling and will push it.

That's the only thing keeping me going at the moment is knowing that we are not divorced.
I just thought of something. Maybe WH really does love her. Maybe he just doesn't want to tell me the truth and hurt me. Maybe that's why he keeps making me false promises.

But the look in his eyes tells me something different.

It's hard to believe anything he says anymore.
Hon you have NOTHING to lose by giving this your all. I think, truly, without you propping this up they are on the brink of splitting up and then he is as in putty in your hands. But even if that doesn't happen, we can definitely rescue YOU from this sick triangle.

Are you in?

All this business where 'he' sets up the Plan B conditions is ludicrous. YOU are the BS!!! YOU drive this bus. You won't be taken seriously until YOU decide this is YOUR plan.

You don't need to send him a full blown Plan B letter if you have sent one in the past. Just choose an IM and send a quick note to him.

Dear WS,

Our chats about reuniting and being together again are too painful for me while you remain in your A. I have nominated my friend xxx on xx@xmail.com to act as intermediary between us until you agree to end your affair with this other woman. Visitation with DS will be on xday and xday at x time. You will come to the house and he will leave when he sees your car. Meeting you in McDonalds car park is too painful and is not going to happen any more. Any questions should be directed to xx. Any attempts to reach me in other ways will be blocked.

Regards, Rock. (and I would put 'regards' not love too. He doesn't deserve it after all his shilly-shallying) Send a copy to OW.

Will he take your Plan B letter seriously? Of course not! No WS has ever taken a Plan B letter seriously in the history of time, so that makes no difference.

The only way to be taken seriously is to STAY DARK. OVER TIME. LOTS OF TIME.

Which you have never done.

But I don't give a tinker's cuss what he makes of it. Let him enjoy his misery without wonderful you. I want to get you out of this sick love triangle for your poor son's sake before he ends up with them full time.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
The only proof I have is that they are living together for 2 years and his whole family know about it and accept it.


Are you kidding?!!

That is quite a lot of proof....
Originally Posted by rocksolid
It's hard to believe anything he says anymore.


He's a proven liar and cheat. Don't believe anything he says!!!!

Originally Posted by rocksolid
p.s Indie about sending OW the NC letter. I feel if I do this she will tell my WH's family again that he has been in contact with me. I know what his family is like and they will put the pressure on him to divorce me again. They love OW and will do anything to come between us. She will put the pressure on too and knowing my WH is not strong he will give in and he will do it.

I will definately end up divorced if I send her a copy. She is controlling and will push it.

That's the only thing keeping me going at the moment is knowing that we are not divorced.

If she pressures him to file for divorce it will cause conflict in their relationship. He will feel defensive about YOU and that is what you want. If she attacks you, that harms their relationship, which is a good thing.

And if he does file for divorce and never recommits to your marriage, you will be better off. Being fearful about such things has greatly impeded your strategic thinking and you have inadvertently propped up the affair. Do you realize this? By hanging around and being available, you have given him the best of both worlds and actually DISCOURAGED him from leaving the OW. He would be crazy to give up that set up!!

Be more strategic, rocksolid!! You may not get your husband back, but there is a chance if you start being strategic instead of reactionary.

I would write that Plan B letter to him and send the OW a copy. In your PBL, you should state that you have been having sex all this time and that his repeated promises to break up with the OW have left you exhausted. Make sure she gets a copy too.

Also, make him start picking up your son at YOUR house. Make the OW insanely jealous. Have him pull in the driveway and send your son out to the car. Give him a cell phone so he can call when he is almost home.

Don't be so fearful, it is causing you to overlook opportunities. If he won't leave the OW, you are better off divorced.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I just thought of something. Maybe WH really does love her. Maybe he just doesn't want to tell me the truth and hurt me. Maybe that's why he keeps making me false promises.

But the look in his eyes tells me something different.

It's hard to believe anything he says anymore.

Yes, he does love her. He probably loves you both which is why he strings you both along. She is the first stringer and you are the OPTION. How does it feel to be someone's option?

How does it feel to VOLUNTEER to be someone's option?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[I would write that Plan B letter to him and send the OW a copy. In your PBL, you should state that you have been having sex all this time and that his repeated promises to break up with the OW have left you exhausted. Make sure she gets a copy too.


This is your nuclear weapon and you have never used it because you have been listening to his silly LYING fogbabble.

Scared of her finding out indeed!

Neak left her panties out for the OW to find.

OW was crazy jealous of neak and carped on CONSTANTLY about how her WH should divorce Neak. All she did was nag about Neak.

Was Neakie scared? Nope, she used the jealousy bullseye to turn OW into a nag.

Is Neak in a recovered marriage?

Edited for suggestions:


Dear WS,

Our chats about reuniting and being together again are too painful for me while you remain in your A.
To lie spent in the arms of my H after lovemaking is wonderful, but not when he returns to his mistress afterwards.
Your repeated promises to break up with your mistress and return to me and son, have left me exhausted.

I have nominated my friend xxx on xx@xmail.com to act as intermediary between us until you agree to end your affair with this other woman. Visitation with DS will be on xday and xday at x time. You will come to the house and he will leave when he sees your car. Meeting you in McDonalds car park is too painful and is not going to happen any more. Any questions should be directed to xx. Any attempts to reach me in other ways will be blocked.

Regards, Rock.
Changed my mind - make it 'Yours, Rock'


Because he has never made her his in law and never really can.
I'd also file for a D, because that takes the weapon out of his hands. File and tell the lawyer you don't want to finalise right away. That way he cannot file to appease her when she receives your bombshell.

OMG Indie and Melody thank you so much. I need to hear this.

I CAN do this. I do need to drive this bus. It has been him dictating the terms. And he's been doing it all to annoy her or appease her or whatever.

I've never liked the McDonalds Carpark drop off. I've often said to him why does he get to dictate all the rules just to make her happy.

So I will do the PLAN B Letter. (again).

I will find an IM. I have a couple of friends I can ask. I will think about who will be my best choice.

So with my plan B letter. Should I send to his house?

Or do I give WH his letter face to face?

I don't want to email cause he will then email back and I don't want to get into that.

Or do I email it and then delete my email so he can't reply?

I also want to mention in the Plan B letter that if there is an emergency regarding our son he can contact my IM and she will pass the message to me. Is this okay?

Thank you so much. I can do this.





So it's Mother's Day this weekend. It's my WH's weekend with my son but he said I can have my son on Mother's Day.

Do I somehow work this into the Plan B letter, saying something like 'On Mothers Day this Sunday you may drop DS to my house at 9am and pick him up again at the usual pick up time of 3pm.'

My WH knows I am going away overseas with our son in 7 weeks. I don't think he knows the actual dates but he knows around what time.

Should I offer this in my PB letter as to get it all out there?

Or should I have IM email him when it gets close and say something like:

Dear WH

Your wife and son are leaving for their trip on xxx. Your wife will need to have your son on your night that week as they are leaving for the airport early. They will return on xxx. Your wife will get your son to call you while they are away for your birthday. They will be returning on xxx and you may pick up your son at 3pm on this day that they return.

Regards
IM

Is that too much info?



Originally Posted by rocksolid
So with my plan B letter. Should I send to his house?

Email it to him and then delete your email. Drive by his house when the OW is there and hand her her copy when he is not there.

On her copy of the Plan B letter put a sticky note that says: I love ______ with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make him happy. I will wait for that chance.

Quote
I also want to mention in the Plan B letter that if there is an emergency regarding our son he can contact my IM and she will pass the message to me. Is this okay?

Fine.
Indie

How would H know if I have filed for D or not? When he originally served me with D papers they were just ones that he printed off the internet and signed.

Is it different in the UK where you can only do it through a lawyer?

From your experience here, if a BS does this, doesn't it just make the WS give up and think 'Oh she's filed. There's no point anymore'??

Originally Posted by rocksolid
So it's Mother's Day this weekend. It's my WH's weekend with my son but he said I can have my son on Mother's Day.

Do I somehow work this into the Plan B letter, saying something like 'On Mothers Day this Sunday you may drop DS to my house at 9am and pick him up again at the usual pick up time of 3pm.'

No, I wouldn't complicate this. Pick a time when you can deliver the letter to the OW and email him the PBL.

Quote
My WH knows I am going away overseas with our son in 7 weeks. I don't think he knows the actual dates but he knows around what time.

Your IM will handle all of this.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Neak left her panties out for the OW to find.

OW was crazy jealous of neak and carped on CONSTANTLY about how her WH should divorce Neak. All she did was nag about Neak.

Was Neakie scared? Nope, she used the jealousy bullseye to turn OW into a nag.

Is Neak in a recovered marriage?


Yes I remember reading this just a few days ago. Neak is an inspiration. Don't know how I would leave some panties at his place though haha

But I get the point
Thanks MelodyLane

How would I get my son mothers day? Get IM to email him later in the week and request it?

Going to work on my Plan B letter and when I will deliver.

I think I just need to post here often about what's going on and not remain dark on here (only to WH).
Does it matter that my last conversation with WH was me LB'ing?

I got upset and was crying. I don't want him to have this last impression of me.

Yes the emergency message can be passed on by IM. Scotland did that.


The IM email seems good too.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks MelodyLane

How would I get my son mothers day? Get IM to email him later in the week and request it?

Going to work on my Plan B letter and when I will deliver.

I think I just need to post here often about what's going on and not remain dark on here (only to WH).

Your IM will make those arrangements. Do you have a cut and dry visitation schedule?
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Does it matter that my last conversation with WH was me LB'ing?

I got upset and was crying. I don't want him to have this last impression of me.


Don't doubt your appeal, RS. Your appeal is very strong which is why he wants to keep you around. If you were angry and throwing things, maybe, but tearfulness is to be expected from a reasonable spouse betrayed by an affair. Your pain was valid and I think it probably accesses his guilt nicely.

If it makes you feel better let him see you one last time dressed up and cheerful, but I don't see it as very necessary. I think it is more necessary we get you in a cheerful Plan B.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I got upset and was crying.


You poor bunny. Hugs (((( RS)))))

Originally Posted by rocksolid
.

I think I just need to post here often about what's going on ).


Yes! you did that so you could be naughty, didnt you?

I would have been so naughty without this forum!
HAHAHAHA so I did! If you could call those sheer little gossamer scraps "panties".

Don't waste too much time on this - you do have many more important things to worry about, but if the opportunity arose to stick a pair under the seat of his car, take it.

You HAVE to get dark, chickie!!! You have a 100% chance of a wonderful, joyful life if you do, and still some chance to R your M. Your current method leaves you with 0% chance of R, and 0% chance of a good life for yourself. I know that's not what you want, or you wouldn't be back.

What do y'all think of her just handing WH the PBN (Plan B Note) in person at the next p/u or dropoff, and then walk away? It has the added advantage of OW being on the phone to hear the whole thing. WH will not have any response to it, good or bad, that will satisfy OW.
I must have accidentally had snark for breakfast, because it just popped into my head to hand him a pair of panties with a note pinned to them. "When you want some more of this, go on a diet and lose 150 pounds of unwanted fat."

I'd better go eat something sugary. Clearly I'm not as sweet as usual. grin
Originally Posted by Neak
if the opportunity arose to stick a pair under the seat of his car, take it. .


I. Love. Neak.

Originally Posted by Neak
What do y'all think of her just handing WH the PBN (Plan B Note) in person at the next p/u or dropoff, and then walk away? It has the added advantage of OW being on the phone to hear the whole thing. WH will not have any response to it, good or bad, that will satisfy OW.


I like it but I don't think he would let the OW hear it and it would tip him off that he needs to prevent her seeing the letter .

If WH even had to hang up suddenly, OW would flip out. And getting a copy to OW is no more difficult whether WH gets his copy in person or emailed. It's just important to not tell him that she's going to get a cc.

This OW sounds off-the-charts insecure. I mean, they're all a little frooty, There's only so long you can live with a limpet before you start getting the urge to scrape it off. wink
And I loves me some Indie, too. hug
Yes I have been very naughty haven't I Indie! Very very naughty. I need to change that thought.

The pick up and drop off is pretty much cut and dry. It's every Monday and Wednesday at 6pm and every Sunday at 3pm. It's also every second Saturday at 8.45 when my H picks up my son to take him to his tennis lesson.

Hi Neak

Thanks for dropping in. I love your idea of panties under the seat if I get a chance but not sure I will or not.

I don't think I will hand WH the letter at the next drop off though. The next drop off will be Saturday morning at 8.45 when he picks up son for tennis. I would prefer not to wait that long. I would rather email him at work before the weekend and do the letter that way.

He doesn't access his email on the weekends so if I send it to his work email by Friday I know it will be received. If I send it on the weekend he won't read until Monday.

I'm thinking I plan out letter today, send tonight so he will receive Friday.

RS, do you have your IM all lined out? Do you understand her role? She is only supposed to be a SPAM filter who passes on pertinent information about finances and child visitation. IN HER OWN WORDS. She needs to protect you from phony, insincere overtures or tirades.

That has to be settled before you go into Plan B because you will have to include the IM's name in your letter. We can help your IM offline with all of this.
I know what will happen if I give WH the letter at drop off while he's on the phone to her. He will do anything in his power to shoo me away and not let her hear that I am there next to him. I would be lucky if he even opened the window in case she heard.

I was once in a ticked off mood and I deliberately opened his car door and said loudly Hi DS. You should have seen the look on WH's face. He was horrified that she would have heard me.

Hmmm maybe I should play that to my advantage....maybe I should open the door and let her hear me.
Hi Melody

There is an IM that I want to use. One of my friends. I am going to ask her today. I'm praying she will say yes. I won't be sending the PPL until I have her okay I can use her.



ok good!! Ask her if she can remain completely NEUTRAL with him and agree to only pass on pertinent information about visitation and finances, in her words. Her job is to act as a SPAM filter only. He will try his best to get around her and may even refuse to deal with her. So be prepared for all that.

You can ask the moderators for my email address and give it to your IM. I will help her navigate any difficult situations.
Hi RS, I remember you and your story and I hope you will stick around this time and not disappear if you decide you want to break Plan B like before.

I know the 2x4s suck but sometimes that is what's needed when someone is not thinking clearly....

twoxfour
This was my last post to you, and then you disappeared.

Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
The reason it took me so long to get into Plan B is because I didn't feel strong enough. I was down, depressed and crying every day and it all seemed to much to handle. So I didn't get into it straight away.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm feeling stronger and feeling ready now to do this.

I see. You wanted to follow Plan RockSolid vs the advice that Dr Harley gave you. And it's because you have a deathgrip (stealing this term from Melody) on your WH and wouldn't let go.

No BS needs to "feel stronger" to go into Plan B. The reason you NEED Plan B is because interacting with your WH is not good for your health. You actually had a breakdown due to this interaction.

Do you see this? Because if you don't, you are probably going to keep breaking your Plan B.

I point this out because I don't want a repeat of last time.

If you feel "weak" or that you need contact w WH to "get stronger", please post to us and we will set you straight.

Again, I am afraid if you don't acknowledge some of these missteps you will be in for Plan C, part 2.

Look at it this way.

Every time you meet your WH's ENs while he is still living with OW, you reward his bad behavior and fuel his entitled, cake-eating mindset...

and you move a step further away from any hope of recovering this marriage and also continue to compromise your mental health.

Really commit to Plan B this time. Acknowledge that you are VERY WEAK when it comes to contacting your WH and take whatever steps you can to really avoid seeing him or hearing form him.

We want you to be successful.

I care much less about how you deliver the letter as I do about:

1) Being prepared first, so there's no excuse for C

and

2)Sticking with it - you can do this!!!
Hi Susie

Thanks for coming back to my thread a second time. I have always known that I am very weak in contacting my WH. I will change this.

I am getting my plan in order today.

I have been and visited my friend today and she has agreed to be my IM. She thinks it is a great idea. I have explained all to her and will link her the info as well.

I knew my friend would be perfect as she is a very partial person and will remain neutral and will only pass on the relevant info. She is very natural at this in real life and she has dealt with a lot regarding her own XH and has drawn really clear boundaries with him also.

When I started telling her about what she would have to do she just GOT IT. God I love this friend of mine. She is awesome. She even wants me to include her phone number as well as email in case there is ever an emergency about my son.

She knows my WH due to having a few dealings with him when my son has been at her son's house and he has been to pick him up from there a few times.

I know that my WH respects my friend and would probably not dare say one bad thing to her.

I'm really happy she has agreed. I feel very blessed to have her as my IM and I feel blessed to have the posters here.

Susie yes I definately need those 2x4's I think! I probably more so than others!
Hi Neak

Yep I'm getting prepared. So here it is.

Got my IM sorted. Tick.

Nearly finished PBL which I intend to send tomorrow and include IM's email address and phone number. After sending the PBL I plan on closing my email so he can not respond.

In the Plan B letter can I also include my 18 year old daughter as an emergency contact number if something heaven forbid was to happen to my son? My daughter wouldn't want to be a go between but he would have her number just in case. I think he actually does have her number anyway so would this be necessary?

I also think it would be best if I also change my cell phone number. What do you think? I don't want to be tempted to reply to his text messages if he happens to send one.

I still know his phone number off by heart but I think I would be less tempted to call or text him if I had a new number. I think I would be dissapointed in myself if I inadvertently gave him the new number by ringing him from it.

I want to be as dark as possible so feel I should definately change my number so he will have no choice to go through the IM.

Also should I change the home number too? I rarely use the home phone and I think he has maybe called it once a long time ago. Not even 100 percent sure he still has that number. But should I do that as a precaution too?

Regarding what I set out in PBL about the drop off. I am going to write how my son will be picked up from out the front of the house and I will send him out. What if WH kicks up a stink about this and doesn't agree.

Since he won't have my contact info what if he starts telling IM he doesn't agree?

I did speak to my IM about this today and she said she could say ' That is Rock Solids wishes. If you do not agree you can arrange a mediation and tell me when the appt is and I will let Rock Solid know and you can sort it out in mediation'.

I can probably bet my WH would be too lazy and busy at work to organise something like this.

So fingers crossed he goes along with it. I'm sure OW will be kicking up a great stink that I have changed the drop offs again. I don't care what she thinks.

Thanks everyone x



"Regarding what I set out in PBL about the drop off. I am going to write how my son will be picked up from out the front of the house and I will send him out. What if WH kicks up a stink about this and doesn't agree."

Then he doesn't get to see your son.

Quote
Since he won't have my contact info what if he starts telling IM he doesn't agree?

Then he doesn't get any message to you at all. He will be screwed. If he wants to get a message to you it will be through the Im or nothing. That is not his choice.

Quote
I did speak to my IM about this today and she said she could say ' That is Rock Solids wishes. If you do not agree you can arrange a mediation and tell me when the appt is and I will let Rock Solid know and you can sort it out in mediation'.

No mediation, no nothing. If he wants to get a message to you it is through the IM or it is nothing. There is no negotiation.
Perfect idea to change your phone #. Your husband will not losing you as an option so it is important that he is prevented from getting through. He will be testing you to see if you are serious! He will try to get through.

Before you send the letter, please post it here for feedback.
Originally Posted by Neak
I care much less about how you deliver the letter as I do about:

1) Being prepared first, so there's no excuse for C

and

2)Sticking with it - you can do this!!!


x2

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I also think it would be best if I also change my cell phone number. What do you think? I don't want to be tempted to reply to his text messages if he happens to send one.


This is the MOST important part of Plan B preparation. Of course you will respond if he harangues you enough. Don't just change your number change ALL your contact details. Change email, block him on social media (it's not enough if he has blocked you because he can unblock). Secure yourself from contact as though your plan is a house and he is a burglar.

When I did this my H tried to email me at work, and send me letters. Then I had my IM send him a message telling him any contact aside from what was passed through her was being deleted unread. I threw the letters away unread and deleted the email unread. You must pledge to not read anything he sneaks through! We will know if you do!

I wouldn't give your daughter's number unless she is prepared to have her phone blown up initially by him trying to get messages to you (I know you think this is unlikely - but it is what happens). If she is tough enough she can repeat 'only emergency contact' to him and promise not tell you about any of his attempts to reach you, then I think it is a good idea.

DO take ML up on her offer to coach your IM. She helped me my first time IMing and it was great!
Tonight I feel so hopeless I can't stop crying. I have this feeling deep in my heart that I have lost my H.

I keep remembering back to my last conversation with him. He was telling me that she is pushing and pushing for them to buy a house together. I feel this is her way of trapping him in for ever.

He kept telling me he was trying to deter her and not go down this path with her. But he kept saying that his parents are encouraging him to do it too. I feel if he does this then that is her way of getting some kind of commitment out of him and not letting me have him.

She knows he won't marry her so she is trying the next best thing to reel him in.

I'm so scared he will do it. Why doesn't my WH have a backbone anymore? Why can't he just stand up and say NO to her.

Why has he become a shadow of the man I married?

I'm so scared. I feel if he buys a house with her then our marriage has no chance. I'm praying to God he doesn't do this.

What kind of woman keeps on staying with him after she found out SIX MONTHS ago that he was cheating on her with me.

Why why why I don't understand. Why can't she just leave my H alone.

Does she not see they have no future.

I can't stop crying.

I will post my Plan B letter later tonight.

Thanks for letting me vent.

So sad tonight. I feel like it's over and I've lost.
Indie okay I won't offer my daughter as an emergency contact.

No need to worry about social media as both me and my H do not have any of that.

I need hope but I can't see any. I will do everything you say. I am going to ring the phone company and get my numbers changed.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Tonight I feel so hopeless I can't stop crying. I have this feeling deep in my heart that I have lost my H.
.


One day you will look back and see this as the hour before the brightest dawn of your life, if you stay on track. I promise.


Originally Posted by rocksolid
He was telling me that she is pushing and pushing for them to buy a house together. I feel if he does this then that is her way of getting some kind of commitment out of him. She knows he won't marry her so she is trying the next best thing to reel him in..


Yes of course she is. She doesn't think she is worthy of marriage and she is not. She is an imbecile and she will fail miserably.

Just get out of her way while she works hard on making them both miserable.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
What kind of woman keeps on staying with him after she found out SIX MONTHS ago that he was cheating on her with me. .


Because she is a married man's mistress and she expects this. She does not expect any more than this. Most losers do not. Being the receiver of sloppy seconds is in her job description.

She is a cockroach on the table of life who feeds on the crumbs of others. Once you leave the table and take your food away, she can't feed on your pain any more. Even though she thinks she wants you gone, she will really be unhappier than ever and feel like the loser she is.

Before she was triumphantly taking someone's husband away. Now she has been lumbered with the cheating reject by the far more dignified wife.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm so scared he will do it. Why doesn't my WH have a backbone anymore? Why can't he just stand up and say NO to her.
.


Addiction. He is not there any more. He is alienised by the addiction and will keep you both in his addiction for as long as you allow it.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I have this feeling deep in my heart that I have lost my H.
.


You lost him more than two years ago. That does not rule out future reconcilliation, but you MUST protect yourself while he is not himself.

You are not losing your H, all you are losing is OW's monkey-boy.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm so scared. I feel if he buys a house with her then our marriage has no chance. I'm praying to God he doesn't do this. .


I would be rooting for this actually - it will kill them within months and is a laughable example of her pitiful standards.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I need hope


That is the LAST thing you need. Plan Hope has nearly killed you. Your husband has been strumming on your hopes like a harp until you are played out.

You need certainty. Certainty that you will no longer put up with this. Certainty that you are on a 100 pc guaranteed plan for personal recovery. That you will not abandon that plan until he has presented you with a CERTAIN plan for recovery.

Only an idiot would buy a house with a married man. Half of whatever he owns is still yours! That's why I told you to get legal advice re the separation. He will still need to honour you financially as his wife.

Even if he still has cash for a house after child/spousal support, a simple letter like 'My client wishes me to remind you that any homes or property you invest in, will be considered a marital asset and half hers while she is your wife. Therefore could you give us an indication of the value of any property you own please'. That would cause huge ructions in the A, but of course - they don't think that far.

DO get legal advice regarding your separation. Don't fear filing for divorce if it is advised. Especially if you dread him doing it. Just neatly take away the option and drag it out without finalising.

RS, I have NO fear that they will not break up whatsoever. A's like this one simply do not last.

The biggest risk to recovery is you. I dread to think what your health is going to be like after the past two years. Unless you take care of yourself you will be hospitalised, custody of your son will go to the affairees and there will be no you for him to recover with.

Once you are safely in either Plan B or a real recovery you are going to be very upset. Once you get off the 'he loves me, he loves me not' carousel, you're probably going to feel pretty pissed off. You will have a huge burden of resentment to face after such long term bad treatment. It will make any future recovery much, much harder than it had to be if you carry on.

For the same reason expect to be very sad for the early part of Plan B until you start to heal. Expect to be very sad for a good few weeks and don't be too proud to take AD's.

The A is bound to crash and burn some time. Bound to. The only thing you have to do is make sure you are healed enough to be able to make good, calm, tough decisions when it does.
Indie already told you most of what I was going to. Read it repeatedly.

The only thing she left me to say was this. You weren't "too weak" all this time, you simply "chose contact". Now, "being strong" is as simple as "choosing no contact".

Make it as easy on yourself as you can by changing all your info, then prepare yourself by each day, each hour, each minute, making the choice.

I CHOOSE NO CONTACT.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Why why why I don't understand. Why can't she just leave my H alone.

Does she not see they have no future.

I can't stop crying.

So sad tonight. I feel like it's over and I've lost.

RS, this OW and your WH aren't even the problem here.

You have been your own worst enemy because you have a death grip on your WH.

One of the first steps in a successful Plan B (IMO) is to acknowledge and accept that you cannot control what the waywards are doing and LET GO. This post tells me that you haven't come close to letting go yet.

I truly hope that you are not using Plan B as a means to get your WH back.

Your focus at this point should solely be getting yourself pulled together so that you can be a good mother and get healthy.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Why why why I don't understand. Why can't she just leave my H alone.

Does she not see they have no future.

I can't stop crying.

So sad tonight. I feel like it's over and I've lost.

RS, this OW and your WH aren't even the problem here.

You have been your own worst enemy because you have a death grip on your WH.

One of the first steps in a successful Plan B (IMO) is to acknowledge and accept that you cannot control what the waywards are doing and LET GO. This post tells me that you haven't come close to letting go yet.

I truly hope that you are not using Plan B as a means to get your WH back.

Your focus at this point should solely be getting yourself pulled together so that you can be a good mother and get healthy.



Hi Susie

Yes I do have a deathgrip I admit. And yes I do want my H back. But I do know that my health is suffering and I want terribly to get myself better again and not be so drained anymore. I really want to get personally recovered because how I am living is not good for my health and not good for my son. I can do this. I am going to get back on the AD's as Indie suggested.

My goal for now is that in 7 weeks I want to feel a lot better and at peace with myself so that I may enjoy my O'S holiday with my son and give him the best time that I can.
Originally Posted by Neak
Indie already told you most of what I was going to. Read it repeatedly.

The only thing she left me to say was this. You weren't "too weak" all this time, you simply "chose contact". Now, "being strong" is as simple as "choosing no contact".

Make it as easy on yourself as you can by changing all your info, then prepare yourself by each day, each hour, each minute, making the choice.

I CHOOSE NO CONTACT.


Hi Neak

Thank you. I CHOOSE NO CONTACT. I do. I have read your story a while ago and always thought whan an inspiration you are.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Only an idiot would buy a house with a married man. Half of whatever he owns is still yours! That's why I told you to get legal advice re the separation. He will still need to honour you financially as his wife.

Even if he still has cash for a house after child/spousal support, a simple letter like 'My client wishes me to remind you that any homes or property you invest in, will be considered a marital asset and half hers while she is your wife. Therefore could you give us an indication of the value of any property you own please'. That would cause huge ructions in the A, but of course - they don't think that far.

DO get legal advice regarding your separation. Don't fear filing for divorce if it is advised. Especially if you dread him doing it. Just neatly take away the option and drag it out without finalising.

RS, I have NO fear that they will not break up whatsoever. A's like this one simply do not last.

The biggest risk to recovery is you. I dread to think what your health is going to be like after the past two years. Unless you take care of yourself you will be hospitalised, custody of your son will go to the affairees and there will be no you for him to recover with.

Once you are safely in either Plan B or a real recovery you are going to be very upset. Once you get off the 'he loves me, he loves me not' carousel, you're probably going to feel pretty pissed off. You will have a huge burden of resentment to face after such long term bad treatment. It will make any future recovery much, much harder than it had to be if you carry on.

For the same reason expect to be very sad for the early part of Plan B until you start to heal. Expect to be very sad for a good few weeks and don't be too proud to take AD's.

The A is bound to crash and burn some time. Bound to. The only thing you have to do is make sure you are healed enough to be able to make good, calm, tough decisions when it does.



Thank you so much Indie. I do already feel very very sad like you said. Just breaking away is so hard BUT I KNOW IT'S THE RIGHT THING. I was reading someones post (maybe Scotland) and they said you know when you are doing the right thing because the right thing is not the EASIEST thing.

So I do know I am doing the right thing.

And there is days when I feel very angry towards my WH. I hate what he's doing to me. Sometimes I feel used. I feel used that he has made love to me and gone home to her. He has always promised me that he is not using me and that he loves me and all I can say to him is 'Yes but your actions tell me otherwise.'

I need to get out of this mindset and stop remembering all these excuses and conversations.

After two years especially the last 6 months my life has been an emotional rollercoaster. Seeing my H has been like an addiction for me. I had moments of being so low and then he would come along and I would see him again and get that high again. Dr Harley explains an A like this so that is why I start doubting myself that I am actually the one if the affair. Do you understand what I mean? That's when I start to question that I am having an A.

I don't want to feel this pain anymore.

I can do this. I want to be well again for me and my boy.
This is my Plan B letter. I fear it is too long but I feel I needed to put this info in.

The reason I put in the bit about him having to park directly out the front is because I don't have a driveway and he has to park on the street. There has been times in the past where he has parked on the opposite side of the street and hasn't gotten out of his car to get my son so I have had to walk across the street with my son.

It's not safe for my son to walk across the busy road by himself and I sure as won't be going outside. And I know that my husband will not get out of his car.

That is why I felt I needed to make this message clear he needs to be on the right side of the road. I want this all clear. Is this okay??



Dear H

Our continued talks about reuniting our marriage and family is too painful and has exhausted me.

Our current arrangement of dropping DS off in the McDonalds car park is not going to happen anymore. It causes me too much pain to see you knowing you are with this other woman. It is also too painful for me to drop DS at your place knowing you are living there with the other woman.

From now on DS can be picked up from his home at my place out the front. You will need to park directly out the front so DS can see when you have arrived and be able to walk out safely. He will not be able to cross the road by himself so parking directly out the front is the only option.

He will watch out for you at the set time and come out to your car by himself when you arrive. I will not come outside the house.

He can be picked up Mondays at 6pm and Wednesdays at 6pm. On my weekends with him, you can pick him up at 3pm on Sundays. On weekends you have him you can pick him up at 8.45am on Saturdays before his sports lesson.

My friend xxx has agreed to be our intermediary for any information pertaining to DS or any emergency regarding DS.
Any questions can be directed to XXX by email. Her email address is:
XXX
Her mobile phone number is XXXXXXXX which can be called if there is an emergency.

Any other means of contact will not be answered until the time you have agreed to end your affair.

Yours
Rocksolid.
Indie

What do you see in my WH's A that makes you believe it won't last?

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indie

What do you see in my WH's A that makes you believe it won't last?
Because Dr. Harley states that most affairs die a natural death.

BUT now that you've removed yourself it allows OW and your WH to only Love Bust each other. You're not around for them to blame everything on.

Please stay dark in your Plan B. Your WH has had 2 women meeting his ENs for over 2 years. Let the fireworks go in affairland because they are going to turn on each other. Especially when your WH doesn't have you to run to.
Hi Brainhurts

Thank you for that. I am going to be Dark and send the letter today.

Is my letter okay to send do you think?

I changed the letter up a bit to make it more of a love letter.

My Dearest _WH,

This is a very hard letter for me to write. I love you so much but our continued talks about reconciliation have left me exhausted. Your affair with OW has caused me so much pain that I find I must end all contact with you. I am willing to create a new marriage for both of us but I cannot do that until you end your affair once and for all.

Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan of reconciliation with me, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friend, ________, has agreed to help make arrangements for you to see our children on schedule that is mutually convenient. If you want to communicate about the children or finances, it will have to be through her. Her email address is __________________. For emergencies you can call her cell phone @ _____________.

From now on DS can be picked up out front of my home. Please park directly out the front so DS can see when you have arrived and be able to walk out safely. He will not be able to cross the road by himself so parking directly out the front is the only option. He will watch out for you at the set time and come out to your car by himself when you arrive.

He can be picked up Mondays at 6pm and Wednesdays at 6pm. On my weekends with him, you can pick him up at 3pm on Sundays. On weekends you have him you can pick him up at 8.45am on Saturdays before his sports lesson.

I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to be separated. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend.

I cared for you when we married and I continue to care for you right up to this day. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in this relationship.

With all my love,
(signed)
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I changed the letter up a bit to make it more of a love letter.

My Dearest _WH,

This is a very hard letter for me to write. I love you so much but our continued talks about reconciliation have left me exhausted. Your affair with OW has caused me so much pain that I find I must end all contact with you. I am willing to create a new marriage for both of us but I cannot do that until you end your affair once and for all.

Until your affair ends, and you are willing to follow a plan of reconciliation with me, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friend, ________, has agreed to help make arrangements for you to see our children on schedule that is mutually convenient. If you want to communicate about the children or finances, it will have to be through her. Her email address is __________________. For emergencies you can call her cell phone @ _____________.

From now on DS can be picked up out front of my home. Please park directly out the front so DS can see when you have arrived and be able to walk out safely. He will not be able to cross the road by himself so parking directly out the front is the only option. He will watch out for you at the set time and come out to your car by himself when you arrive.

He can be picked up Mondays at 6pm and Wednesdays at 6pm. On my weekends with him, you can pick him up at 3pm on Sundays. On weekends you have him you can pick him up at 8.45am on Saturdays before his sports lesson.

I hope that we will be able to rebuild our marriage some day. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We can build a new lifestyle together in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never be a reason for us to be separated. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you to be my best friend.

I cared for you when we married and I continue to care for you right up to this day. But I cannot be with you or help you as long as you are in this relationship.

With all my love,
(signed)
Rocksolid ^^^^^ here's the letter to send.
Thankyou melody and indie for helping me with the letter.

Melody I've sent it word for word. That's great thank you.

I've changed my email now.

When I get home today I am going to ring up and get my phone number changed. I don't know long it will take them to do it. Hopefully not too long. I don't want to be tempted to call him.

I feel sad today but feel a sense of relief that i have a plan and am doing the right thing.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
After two years especially the last 6 months my life has been an emotional rollercoaster. Seeing my H has been like an addiction for me. I had moments of being so low and then he would come along and I would see him again and get that high again. Dr Harley explains an A like this so that is why I start doubting myself that I am actually the one if the affair. Do you understand what I mean? That's when I start to question that I am having an A.


All romantic love is an addiction. Plan B is cold turkey for all BW's and it is very hard in the early days for everyone who does it.

It is not because you are in an A. You are his avowed wife who has been gaslighted into thinking herself a mistress. What he has done to you is TRULY appalling and once safely away from him - you may decide to never forgive him. That's why the biggest risk to recovery is you.

I am not worried about him, one day he will be on his bended knee to you.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indie

What do you see in my WH's A that makes you believe it won't last?


Aside from the fact that 95pc end within two years? Lots of reasons. Good grief, where do I start?

She is a jealous, controlling wreck YET she is happy to be a mistress to an undivorced man indefinitely. Usually even the lowest calibre of mistresses DEMAND the faux affairage wedding as their due.

This one doesn't, and is a house of cards if ever there was one. She sends him a very mixed message; 'you are mine but I don't have to be yours'. He will be constantly see-sawing in such an arrangement and they will fight all the time.

Most OW are willing to accept crumbs, which is always their ultimate downfall, but this one accepts the crumbs of crumbs. Her doom is written in the stars.


One of the biggest affair 'hits' that an OW receives during an A is 'winning' over the wife. "If he will leave someone he married for ME I must be worth something!" They get addicted to the sick competition. During an A whenever he decides to be with her over the wife, she gets a lovebank deposit.

That's why she set it up so that your son's handovers were in her control. It's also why she plans to choose to stay with him, even as a perpetually married man. When he chooses to do as she says, and when he abuses his avowed wife - she'll get that old lovebank 'hit' of 'winning/being chosen over a wife' and thinking 'I feel better than someone who is good enough to be a wife'. She doesn�t think she is good enough to be a wife herself. She's only really interested in the competition with you and once he becomes your reject in Plan B and you are calling all the shots, she will feel flat and bored.


He is rather a character as WH's go too. Because he is familiar with MB, he has been using the concepts to gaslight you and convince you that you are the mistress! He has never even considered being in a relationship solely with her - which tells you all you need to to know about their future chances.

He has also tried to 'manage' Plan B by being the one to suggest it which was obviously just a way of tring to scare you off it and gaslight you. Or to be in control of it so he could stop Plan B when it got too lonely.

This tells me he is truly terrrified of you having the strength and ability to go really, truly dark outside his control. This is because he is VERY committed to having you both. When you do a true Plan B, it won't make him leave the OW necessarily (because he wants you both) but it will cause him great suffering which will be a huge lovebuster to her and ruin their relationship.

She will probably put huge efforts into having the relationship without you initially, which will be doomed to failure.

Now that I have let you scratch that itch, I want you to get your head out of A-land and STOP thinking about the cockroaches and how they think. It avails nothing.

Until the day he sends word to your IM that he will go NC there is only one word you need to describe his mindset - alien.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Most affairs end the wrong way -- they die a natural death. Instead of taking control of the situation, and making a decision to end it, most unfaithful spouses continue in the relationship as long as possible. Affairs, however, don't usually last very long. I estimate that 95% of them don't last two years. Those few who eventually marry are extremely fragile -- much more likely to divorce than the average couple. So if an affair doesn't end the right way, it will almost always end, even if it's the wrong way.


Originally Posted by Dr Harley
your effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, and even exposure, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too.


Originally Posted by Dr Harley
almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
've found that breaking a man away from his lover after he reconciles with his wife usually proves more difficult than breaking a woman away from her lover. I am not sure why this is so. Perhaps women feel more uncomfortable loving two men, while men adjust better to multiple relationships. Throughout history, in the common system of polygamy, men have supported many women, but most societies have not permitted women to do the same. Usually sociologists have assumed this discrimination had an economic base (men could support women, but women could not usually support men), but the reason may also turn out to be emotional -- men usually enjoy having several wives, while most women find having several husbands to be repulsive.
The last comment is one of the reasons Dr Harley is so keen on Plan B being implemented quickly for women. Aside from the health dangers for women, Plan A competition does not work on men. Competing with the AP doesn't work when you are a woman because men don't feel as compelled to choose. A WH will simply be glad of the opportunity to have his needs met by two women, if the women allow it.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I feel sad today but feel a sense of relief that i have a plan and am doing the right thing.

Great job!!! hurray


Now, what is the plan to send a copy to skanky? Can you drop it off to her at the house with this note?


I love WH with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make him happy. I will wait for that chance.
Sneak off for a break and change your phone number right now. That should have been done at the same time you sent the letter. You're deliberately giving him a small window within which to contact you - bad idea for a serious Plan B'er.

And you are now a serious Plan B'er.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I feel sad today but feel a sense of relief that i have a plan and am doing the right thing.

Great job!!! hurray


Now, what is the plan to send a copy to skanky? Can you drop it off to her at the house with this note?


I love WH with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make him happy. I will wait for that chance.


Hi Melody

I found out her email address and emailed it. I put that bit in at the bottom.

I just couldn't bring myself to rock up to the house. I feel if I gave it to her face to face I would have totally lost control and hit her or something. I remember when I confronted her six months ago how angry I was and I just do not trust myself.

I'm even more angry now and would be liable to do something I would regret. And I felt that would give her more determination to stay with him. I want to be in control.
My WH has just come 5 minutes ago to pick up my son for his sports lesson. I had my son sit on a chair inside at the door so he could see when WH arrived.

I sat to the side behind the door so WH couldn't see me.

When he arrived my son gave me a kiss and cuddle and walked out to the car.

My son asked me why I wasn't walking him out to the car. I told him that I can't see Daddy until his girlfriend moves out of the house because it hurts too much. I told him it was wrong for Daddy to have a girlfriend when he was still married to Mummy.

Is that okay? I wanted to make it age appropriate. He's very wise beyond his years but he is still only 7.
I was tempted to go outside and wave to my WH just one last time but I was strong and didn't. I knew I had to do the right thing. I knew he would have been on the phone to OW and I just can't see that anymore. It hurts too much.

I think as soon as he picks him up I need to do something else IMMEDIATELY to keep myself busy and not get upset about it.

I hope this become easier me not going out the front. I can do this. I have to.

You did fine and for a 7 year old that allowed him to know the truth.

You may want to sit him down later and explain that what his daddy and the OW are doing is extremely hurtful to you and hurts the whole family.

Ask him if he has any questions or better yet, how does he feel about that.

LTL
Yes, you are avoiding confusing him by giving him clear descriptions about what is happening in his world.

Dr H advocates doing this truthfully with children of all ages. He says 4years old and the only reason he doesn't say younger is because they wouldn't understand.

My 7 yo nephew was giving me advice about my betrayal! I also remember him telling the neighbours how 'terrible' it was. He even said he was glad he'd been told (actually he hadn't he had hid under a table and listened but we wouldn't have kept it from him) because he said it was scary when grown ups were upset and pretending not to be.
Another thing something my son said me to yesterday.

They had a mothers day stall at school yesterday where everyone brought money to buy a gift.

My son bought me a lovely gift and he was so excited, bless him.

He then told me that some people bought 2 gifts. I asked him why and he said that they also bought one for their stepmums.

I said 'oh, well you don't have a stepmum'. I said to him 'OW is not your stepmum and never will be.'

He said 'I know Mummy. I don't even talk to her'.

I love my boy :-)

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I was tempted to go outside and wave to my WH just one last time but I was strong and didn't. I knew I had to do the right thing. I knew he would have been on the phone to OW and I just can't see that anymore. It hurts too much.

I think as soon as he picks him up I need to do something else IMMEDIATELY to keep myself busy and not get upset about it.

I hope this become easier me not going out the front. I can do this. I have to.


It does just like any withdrawal. If you cave you will undo the work and reset the withdrawal clock.

Always think of ways to stay strong. Inspirational music playing when he calls? Rocky theme tune or some diva you'd be ashamed to let down..

Or like you say, plan to be busy and engrossed in something when pickups happen.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
My son bought me a lovely gift and he was so excited, bless him.

He then told me that some people bought 2 gifts. I asked him why and he said that they also bought one for their stepmums.

I said 'oh, well you don't have a stepmum'. I said to him 'OW is not your stepmum and never will be.'

He said 'I know Mummy. I don't even talk to her'.

I love my boy :-)


What a smart little sweetheart.

I think children are cleverer and more clear eyed about adultery than most adults.
Thank you so much Indie into your amazing insight into the OW'S mind. It really seems like it's her down to a tea.

The thing about her getting lovebank deposits every time she 'wins' seems dead on to me. I never realised that people could feel good about this. She just seems so sick and twisted.

When I read what you wrote about that, I knew it was true because of things that WH has said to me in the past about things OW has said.

Apparently after she found out about us, her exact words were 'I am not going to let her WIN'.

She sees it as a massive competition between me and her.

You're right I do believe I have been gaslighted into thinking I am a mistress. I think a lot of this comes from his family who all turned against me when they found out we had been sleeping together. They all made out I was the bad guy and OW was the betrayed one.

I myself know it's not true but try telling that to a whole family of enablers frown

You're right she has never demanded he marry her. She has been demanding for the past six months that he divorce me but he says he doesn't want to divorce me and has been dragging his feet about it. She must be going nuts. Probably why she is now pushing to buy a house with him. Anything to keep her foot in the door and away from me.

Isn't she tired by now? I always wonder how long she can keep it up for.

I know I have to stop thinking about them.

I find it so amazing Indie and everyone else of going into so much depth for me about this. I really appreciate it. And finding all the quotes from Dr Harley about affairs.

Everyone has been amazing I thank you.

I'm going to keep posting thank you everyone.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I was tempted to go outside and wave to my WH just one last time but I was strong and didn't. I knew I had to do the right thing. I knew he would have been on the phone to OW and I just can't see that anymore. It hurts too much.

I think as soon as he picks him up I need to do something else IMMEDIATELY to keep myself busy and not get upset about it.

I hope this become easier me not going out the front. I can do this. I have to.


It does just like any withdrawal. If you cave you will undo the work and reset the withdrawal clock.

Always think of ways to stay strong. Inspirational music playing when he calls? Rocky theme tune or some diva you'd be ashamed to let down..

Or like you say, plan to be busy and engrossed in something when pickups happen.


I think I'll think of everyone here rooting for me smile

Originally Posted by LearnedTooLate
You did fine and for a 7 year old that allowed him to know the truth.

You may want to sit him down later and explain that what his daddy and the OW are doing is extremely hurtful to you and hurts the whole family.

Ask him if he has any questions or better yet, how does he feel about that.

LTL


Hi LTL

Yes I think I will sit him down and talk to him. I've always told him it's wrong that Daddy has a girlfriend and he says I know. But I haven't really asked him how he's felt. I know he wants mum and dad back together.

He isn't a boy of many words but when he talks he just comes out with the most amazing kind things.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
Yes, you are avoiding confusing him by giving him clear descriptions about what is happening in his world.

Dr H advocates doing this truthfully with children of all ages. He says 4years old and the only reason he doesn't say younger is because they wouldn't understand.

My 7 yo nephew was giving me advice about my betrayal! I also remember him telling the neighbours how 'terrible' it was. He even said he was glad he'd been told (actually he hadn't he had hid under a table and listened but we wouldn't have kept it from him) because he said it was scary when grown ups were upset and pretending not to be.


Your nephew sounds like one of those kids that are wise beyond their years too. It's amazing the things they pick up on.
Hi Neak.

I did it! I changed my phone number. It will be effective in the next 24 hours.

Wow I can't believe I am doing this. I feel good about this.

Don't worry he wouldn't try and call over the weekend anyway because he will be with HER. He only ever called on a weekday while he was at work.

Still sad and scared but glad I have a plan. Is it normal to feel a bit liberated in Plan B?

My feelings are all over the place right now.
hurray
Yes, and normal to feel liberated one minute, and crashing and burning the next. Don't worry, the liberation will come back, and stay for longer each time.

This is what sprang to mind.

Good job with the dropoff, and changing your number, too. Even better than WH knowing you mean business, is having YOU know you mean business. smile
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Neak.

I did it! I changed my phone number. It will be effective in the next 24 hours.

Wow I can't believe I am doing this. I feel good about this.

Don't worry he wouldn't try and call over the weekend anyway because he will be with HER. He only ever called on a weekday while he was at work.

Still sad and scared but glad I have a plan. Is it normal to feel a bit liberated in Plan B?

My feelings are all over the place right now.
Good job on changing your number and how you have protected yourself at the pick ups/drop offs.

Please have something planned for you and your son whether it's playing a game or reading so you keep yourself busy.

In the future after pick ups go do something for yourself so you handle the pain and loneliness.

Stay the path rocksolid. You're doing so well.
I'm so proud of you chicky! I think you and DS deserve a treat.
Thanks so much everybody.I wouldn't be able to do this without you all here encouraging and helping me along the way.

I'm reading every day and learning so much.

Neak I love Rapunzel. Me and my son saw that and I remember that part. Definately how I feel up and down.

I felt good today but had a cry tonight cause I miss my H so much.

When I go overseas with my son next month it will be my birthday and will also be WH birthday a few days later. So I'll be away for both our birthdays.

I'd like my DS to still call his Dad for his birthday while we are out of the country. Since I don't want WH to have my phone number, I was thinking of getting my son to call him from a payphone overseas. Of course I won't be talking to him on the phone. Is this acceptable?


It's Mother's Day tomorrow Indie so my treat is going out to lunch with my son and daughter. And when I was at the shops tonight I bought some expensive fish and prawns to eat for dinner tomorrow night. I don't often splash out but I think I deserve it!

Brainhurts thanks I will stay the path. It's only been a couple of days but I do feel I'm going well. I hope I can continue like this. I'll keep posting and reading.

I feel so ashamed and disappointed in myself that I never did this six months ago.

But I'm not giving up in getting myself stronger and better, no matter how this turns out.





Originally Posted by rocksolid
I feel so ashamed and disappointed in myself that I never did this six months ago.

Don't beat yourself up because you're doing it now and you're doing it well.

So glad you're doing the self-care.

Stay posting especially when you hit those bumps, we are here for you.
Your past failures are now learning experiences, not a club to beat yourself up with. Take what you need from them, and go on.

As to the phone call, I think it's fine, as long as DS really wants to call and it's fairly easy to do so. If it would be a big hassle, let him send a postcard as soon as you get there to tell his dad happy birthday.

Right now the kids aren't WH's priority, so you shouldn't go overboard to make him their priority, either. After all, if he wasn't being a bad human being, he'd be with you guys on his birthday, and DS could just turn to him and say, "Happy birthday, Dad!" Since the separation is all WH's fault, he doesn't need a whole lot of effort by other people to make the day special for him.

Leaving him alone with OW means that she has to work her selfish little self extra hard to try and make up for the presence of his entire family. The same thing applies on a day-to-day basis, but the contrast becomes especially sharp on special days.

You know all the reasons for yourself why Plan B is crucial, and you (including your good mental and physical health to care for the children) are THE MOST IMPORTANT reasons to be in PB. The above is one of the reasons why it's important for WH, too. Because as long as you were in the picture, OW only had to carry a very tiny part of the load. This suited her selfish little heart just fine. She enjoys being the OW.

She will not enjoy having to be OW+wife+kids to WH. The more he loses, the more she has to make up to him. Protecting him from that loss also protects the A from reality, allowing it to drag on and on and on.

Eventually, the knowledge of what's best for you will be all the motivation you need to be strong and stay dark. Right now, when you've gotten so used to shoving your own needs aside, it may be hard to think of yourself as that important. During those moments, remind yourself that it's not only the very best thing for you, but it's the very best thing for WH, too. That you are now giving him the best because you love him.

And keep making yourself the priority so you can learn how very worthy of love, respect, and everything good in life, YOU are.
Thanks Brainhurts. It means so much that everyone here is here for me.

I try not to beat myself up and know I'm doing the right thing.

The one thing I do beat myself up about is me leaving my H in the first place and having my A.

Neak I know you say it is all my WH's fault but I know it all started with me when I first had my A.

I wish I could turn back the hands of time and wish I had never had my A. I feel this is my punishment now because of what I did.

The worst thing I did was hurt my H and family for a stupid fantasy.

I tell you what when I eventually did come out of my fog I felt so relieved and glad to be out of that place. I've learned so much from all this and know that if we recover our marriage we will be following Dr Harley's program for recovery. I do believe my WH will be willing to follow the program too.

I just hope my WH will come out of the fog soon so he won't be this alien anymore being controlled by OW.

For so long I have had his whole family hate me and his friends too for me walking out on him 2 years ago. And then they hated me more when they found out I had been seeing him while he has been with OW.

It starts to get you down and make you feel like a terrible person when people continue to shun you when you see them out in public.

Tonight I was in the store and one of my WH's old friends and work colleague saw me. I didn't even see him as I was just in my own little world. He actually called out to me by name and said hello to me and asked how I was. He seemed genuinely happy to see me. I felt so happy that someone didn't hate me for a change. It made me feel happy inside. But then afterwards I cried because it's just so emotional seeing someone from WH's life and knowing I'm not part of that life anymore.

I know one day if WH and I reconcile I can change people's opinions of me and show them I am not the same person anymore as I was when I walked out on my WH. I know I shouldn't care what people think anyway but I do want people to see the changes in me.

Back before I was in Plan B and WH and I would talk, I would always tell him how sorry I was for leaving him and that I would spend my life making it up to him.

He would always say that he had forgiven me a long time ago and that we would both make it up to each other. He would say that it was HIM now that needed to make things up to me. He would admit that he was doing the wrong thing and he wished he had never moved OW in and he wished he had followed MB and just hung in there till my A ended.

He said this all again only recently. He admits he's doing the wrong thing but won't end it with her cause it's too hard.

I miss my H that used to be so strong. He may be weak now but I refuse to live my life that way! I'm going to make this a good year for me and my son!



One more thing. Is this something typical to come out of a WH's mouth?

He kept saying all the time 'Maybe you're better off without me. I don't know why you keep hanging around. I'm not worth it'.

I felt he was saying this so he could condone his A.



Totally normal. He doesn't feel good enough for you, but believes he is trashy enough for OW. It's all part of the fog, and nothing you should worry about.

His A isn't your fault, not even a little bit. The majority of us on here who were BS's did not cheat on our spouses in return. A few did, and some have recovered, but most of us responded with honor. Your WH could have chosen to do the same. Instead, he chose to dive deeply into the pigsty, and splash around for two years.

Your A didn't make him cheat. No one else could do that, only him. Your A was wrong, and you own 100% of that. His A continues to be wrong, and he owns 100% of that. I suspect that you wrongfully taking responsibility for part of his decision to cheat is what helped to hold you in this mess for so long, paralyzed.

Fortunately, you aren't that person any more. This may be one of those handy lessons you learn as you put the past in the past.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Neak I know you say it is all my WH's fault but I know it all started with me when I first had my A


But lots have us have been on the receiving end of As and didn't go out and have our own. My H was never remorseful and I was separated for a year. I never allowed so much as flirting until I was months past divorce.

If I had, I would have had an A. It wouldn't have been his A that caused it but my actions.

How does having a RA help? Especially when you know first hand how it feels. I would never wish an A on my worst enemy. (Which is OW in case you're wondering!)

Your A was caused by you and his was caused by him. It's as simple as that and only he can pull himself out of the nosedive - just as you did.

Thanks Neak and Indie. His excuse to me always was that he just needed to feel wanted again and if I didn't want him he would find someone who did.

Is there any stories or info here about revenge affairs? I've tried to search but can't come up with anything.

Thanks again
Look for Faithful Follower's story. I'm sure there are many others.
Thanks Neak I will look.

I feel really sad today. I think I'm in withdrawal from not talking to my WH. I'm so used to talking to him everyday and now I'm not it makes me miss him.

I know I won't call him but it's just so hard.

I wonder if he will ever come out of the fog. I don't know if I've lost my chance because he has been with her so long now.

Think I'll watch a funny movie tonight to keep my mind off things.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Neak and Indie. His excuse to me always was that he just needed to feel wanted again and if I didn't want him he would find someone who did.


It's just too funny. She doesn't want him at all! An OW has no interest when the wife is out of the picture. It's the image of the mans wife she really wants. The poor dear is going to feel ver unloved by his bored mistress any day now. He's been merely a dog jumping through her hoops for a while anyway.
Indie he definately has been jumping through her hoops that's for sure!!

I can't believe he keeps doing it frown

It's like he doesn't have a voice of his own anymore.

A big part of Plan B is forgetting about what is happening with WH and what will happen with WH. You need to try to pretend he is never coming back and move on with you life.

When your thoughts drift towards what he or OW are doing or not doing, redirect yourself. This is the time for new hobbies, activities, self-care, etc.

Dwelling on WH/OW is going to keep you stuck. Trust me.
I had a feeling that someone was going to tell me that Susie. Thank you for the reminder. I need these constant reminders.

I'm going to look for some new things to do and keep busy and look after myself.

I keep telling myself I can do this. I know I can. Thanks
See? You know this stuff. We're just here to echo what you're already telling yourself. smile
Thanks Neak and Susie

Today I feel horrible. It's only day 4 but I can't stop crying and feel like I can't breathe.

I was triggered because my DS said to me that Daddy said to him that he might buy a new house. He doesn't remember when he said it to him.

I just told my DS that he can't tell me anything else about Daddy and OW because it upsets me too much.

I hate all the promises WH has made me about being back together and as soon as I am out of the picture it's like he's been given a green light to go and plan a future with OW. It's like he doesn't give a rat's a$$ about me anymore.

And today my friend said to me 'You know he's never coming back don't you'. It hurt so much and I nearly cried. Why can't people be supportive of me.

This sucks. It hurts so much. My H should be here holding me and making it better but he is too busy being at OW beck and call.

I know I have to stop thinking about him and OW but I can't. I'm so scared and upset. I can't believe he has been doing this to me for so long and will now probably buy a house with her because she is pushing and his parents are pushing too.

What hope do I really have of getting him back. I feel like I've lost all chances.

I'm going to pick myself back up, I know I will. I'm just having a crap day.




It is temporary, Rock. Get a stockpile of funny movies to help. They help so much!

So does doing stuff with your son.

When any friends give you 'sage' advice just say you have a plan that is entirely focused on you.

One of the biggest pay offs of Plan B is it makes you so obviously self reliant and resilient, so obviously working to your own good, that people lay off you.

Except for trying to fix you up but that's a whole different battle.

I would say that dating during separation causes such a mess that I would have no part of it. People would exchange 'she's such a fanatic' looks.

But that's the thing about introducing an idea to people and then letting it marinate - they can see the sense for themselves if they have any. Now many people who thought I was odd think the same way.
How are you sleeping and eating? Are you exercising?
Have you thought about AD's for the short term?
Don't worry Indie I have no intention of dating anybody. I don't believe in that. I don't want a temporary feel good fix. The only way I would ever date again would be if I was divorced and even then I just can't see myself dating ever again. That's just the way I feel right now.

My son has been making me laugh he is such a sweetheart. He's my strength through all this.

Susie I haven't been exercising at all. I have quite a physical job so every day I get home I am quite exhausted. I know I should try to fit some in somewhere. I remember Jedi Knight (I think) saying somewhere that exercise kills depression.

The sleeping is okay but I wake up early hours of the morning thinking of my husband and can't get back to sleep.

The eating is not so great. When I have my son I cook healthy meals for us because I always want him to eat good.

But when it's just me I'm afraid I don't eat that great. It's like a huge effort to eat something good and I just end up snacking.

I was on AD for a while 6 months ago but I found they made me extremely tired. I tried them for a while a month or two and then when my H and I were seeing each other again I came off them, I guess cause he was making me feel good.

I have a prescription left for the AD's that I could get again. I've been thinking I should start them again.

Was wondering if you are allowed to take prescription AD's with you when you go out of the country? I am going to Canada in 6 weeks. I wasn't sure if you are allowed to just take stuff like that with you.

Do you think I will feel a little better in 6 weeks? I really hope so because I want to have a great holiday with my DS.

I was reading on another thread that some people do an olive branch in Plan B when they've been in Plan B over a month? I think it was you Neak that said SH sometimes suggested this.

I was wondering if I should do this in 6 weeks time just before I'm about to jet off and leave the country for 2 weeks?

I'm kind of thinking that I should NOT do this because I need to be SUPER STRICT because I haven't been in the past, and it would just undo all my hard work. Thoughts?

Or should I need not be thinking of this right now and just concentrate on healing myself. I'm guessing the latter.

I miss my H so much. Getting through each day is a huge achievement for me.

I bought Love Must Be Tough by James Dobson due to some people talking about it here.

Any other book recommendations I should get? I have SAA and HNHN.

Thank you for your support everyone.
Please call your doctor about the ADs. Dr Harley recommends them if you are struggling.

Re exercise, please try to even do something small like taking a short walk with your son for 15 mins in the evening. The fresh air and being outside is great. There are also HIIT/tabata (sp?) workouts on youtube that are as short as 4 mins if you only do one cycle. Please try to do something. Exercise has helped me through some tough times!
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Do you think I will feel a little better in 6 weeks? I really hope so because I want to have a great holiday with my DS.

Yes, but you have to MAKE it happen! Try not to talk about WH or OW anymore!

Talk about what you are doing each day to make your life/health better for you and your DS.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I was reading on another thread that some people do an olive branch in Plan B when they've been in Plan B over a month? I think it was you Neak that said SH sometimes suggested this.

I was wondering if I should do this in 6 weeks time just before I'm about to jet off and leave the country for 2 weeks?

Absolutely not.

You have to stop using Plan B as a means to get your WH back. This is about YOU.
The book,***EDIT*** is one that has been continuously referred to be on the reading list.

LTL
Thanks LTL I will look that one up smile
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Do you think I will feel a little better in 6 weeks? I really hope so because I want to have a great holiday with my DS.

Yes, but you have to MAKE it happen! Try not to talk about WH or OW anymore!

Talk about what you are doing each day to make your life/health better for you and your DS.


Okay Susie I will try not talk about him and OW. I will try and heal as best as I can and focus on myself. I am willing to do everything that everybody says here so I can become strong and a better person.

I actually was exercising a few months ago and doing some exercise videos on youtube. I like the dance ones and actually did one of those short tabata ones. That was definately a great workout in such a short time and so hard! I did feel better afterwards.

I actually do feel better when I get out in the sunshine. About once or twice a fortnight I do get out with my son and I take him to the local bike path and he rides his scooter and I walk. I do always feel good when I have that fresh air on my face. I will try and do more of this.

Another thing I do to get outside is I jump on the trampoline with my DS. That's always fun and he loves it. We do that a few times a week after school.

I've wanted to take hula hooping classes for a while but there's none near where I live. I might buy a hula hoop and a video and do that at home too.

I want to do a writing course too that's a goal I've had for a while. The one I want to do is expensive so I will save up for that when I return from my trip.



I won't do the olive branch. I will concentrate on myself.

I feel I probably wouldn't be strong enough anyway.

**edit**

moderator's note: Please familiarize yourself with our TOS and stop recommending books/resources that are not approved by Dr. Harley.
The olive branch idea was at 6 months, not 1. And after it led a number of BS's to use it as an excuse for just one more C, and just one more C, and pretty soon nothing left of what had once been a good Plan B, it was discarded as forum advice.

I have no idea if SH still recommends it or not, but I do not. For every one PB person that could use it to good effect, there's at least 500 who would find it a stumbling block. It's just not worth it.

Carry on as you are, soldier.
Thanks Neak I won't do it.

I've already done one more C so many times over the last 6 months and do feel it would be a hindrance to my plan. I'll stick to my plan. It's so hard but I'm just taking it one day at a time. Thanks for clearing it up for me.

I'm on day 5 today. That's a record for me in Plan B. I've found that changing my phone number and email has really helped or I would have been tempted to call him again. Hope this gets easier soon.

Think I will take a walk tonight. Have been watching comedy shows and doing lots of reading.

You've already pulled up the whole olive tree by the roots and thrown it at his head. grin

FIVE days already? Good job!! Keep up the great work, and keep on taking care of yourself. Every day you'll set a new record for Plan B. Every Single Day.
haha you made me laugh then Neak about me pulling up the whole tree by it's roots. I definately have done that haven't I!

If only it had been enough to knock him out of the fog!

Thanks I needed a laugh smile

Originally Posted by Neak
The olive branch idea was at 6 months, not 1. And after it led a number of BS's to use it as an excuse for just one more C, and just one more C, and pretty soon nothing left of what had once been a good Plan B, it was discarded as forum advice.

I have no idea if SH still recommends it or not, but I do not. For every one PB person that could use it to good effect, there's at least 500 who would find it a stumbling block. It's just not worth it.

Carry on as you are, soldier.


Surely the olive branch would only apply to men anyway? I can see it being effective on a WW but I can't see it being valuable with a WH even if it were not such a damaging thing for the BW.

I'm VERY proud of your progress Rock, I see a whole new spirit of determination in you.

I second asking your doctor about ADs - if you have a physical job try the salute to the sun yoga pose, there are YouTube videos to teach you. It can wake you up or stretch you in the morning or release tired muscles at night. It's a full body work out and takes only a few mins. Make sure you don't strain beyond a comfortable stretch while trying it though.

I want to hear all about your bucket list, your Plan B pick me ups and what colour your toes are! What is your travel itinerary, your travel wardrobe?

As for eating, I didn't cook much in early Plan B days either. Have some healthy snackable foods on hand, like nuts, salads and antipasto. Crudit�s and dip, or wraps and cooked chicken. Bagels and salmon, sardines and multigrain crackers. Nice bread, soft cheese, cherry tomatoes. My heathen picnics were great fun when there was only myself to please. If it's the days when you don't have your son, why not go out to eat with a girlfriend or have a real picnic?

Hi Indie

You're making me hungry with all those yummy food ideas!

Well tomorrow will be officially 1 week of NC/Plan B. It's been a tough week and I miss H so much but I have survived the first week! Surely it will just get easier. I think I might reward myself with a treat every week that I get through.

My Plan B pick me ups:

- Playing uplifting inspirational music in my car. Also playing it at work as my job allows this. I even just play the songs on repeat to really sink it into my head!

- Playing games with my son and spending lots of time with him.

- Watching movies and funny shows.

My bucketlist:

- Going to PEI Canada which will be ticked off in 6 weeks time!
- Doing a writing course and perhaps getting published.

My travel itinerary:

I have so much planned for my DS and I! Lots of touristy stuff, theme parks for my DS, digging for clams, exploring beaches and national parks, visiting historic sites, climbing a lighthouse, crossing the Confederation Bridge, going on a bus that then goes into the water and so much more! We will be eating out every night and my DS is excited because he wants to try lobster for the very first time!

So it's very jam packed and exciting. It's been my dream for so long to go there. I had hoped it would be with my H but unfortunately he won't be joining us frown But I am determined to have the BEST TIME with my DS and really looking forward to it. I think the change of scenery will do me the world of good and hopefully give me a new perspective on things.

And who knows I might get the travel bug and want to start travelling more with my DS.

I go in 6 weeks so hopefully I will be feeling a lot stronger and positive by then smile

I definately need this holiday!



You're doing great, RS!!!!
PEI is amazing!
Take lots of photos and get to DS take them, too...
hurray

You're a rock star, rocksolid.
PEI IS YOUR OVERSEAS TRIP?????????????????? faint THAT PLACE IS AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you know you can get most of LMM's books for free on Kindle? Even if you don't have a kindle, you can sign up for the account, get the books, and read them online.

Be sure to look for the Anne of Green Gables Windy Poplars Toilet Paper.
Wow thank you Susie and Brainhurts and Cat and Neak and Indie and melody and everybody being so encouraging!

PEI has been my dream since I was little and Anne of Green Gables has been my inspiration to go there. We are doing lots of 'Anne' stuff on the island. I don't think my son was too impressed at doing the Anne stuff so I'm breaking it up and doing fun stuff for him as well.

Neak and catwhit have you been there? I will definately buy the Anne toilet paper! That sounds so cool. Don't think I will use it though! I am going to buy a doll as well. And will check out the books as well. I have the first book but not the others. I have all the movies too.

It will actually be my birthday when I'm over there so I'll be having a good birthday present.

I've always dreamed of seeing the red sand ever since I first saw Anne of Green Gables smile

I think I might add my two favourite lines from the movie to my signature line. I often think about them and use them as an inspiration in my situation and to life in general.

1. It's not what the world holds for you, it's what you bring to it.

2. Tomorrow is always fresh, with no mistakes in it.


Brainhurts I was so flattered you said I was a rockstar! I was actually thinking last week that I was determined to be a Plan B success on MB and for one day someone to post that rocksolid was a rockstar!! After one week of Plan B you saying that I feel very encouraged. Thanks!!

I'm so blessed to have all your support it's been so amazing x









Yes, RockSolid, I have been, several times. But SOOOO long ago, I don't know that my experience would be valuable. In fact, it was before there WAS a bridge!

We did go to the Anne house. And had wonderful lobster suppers (in the church basement, where it was all-you-can-eat, and the minister played the piano for the sing-along.) And the beaches at Cavendish,

I am very excited for you!!
Now I'm going to have to see where I stuck the album. The kids were 4, 2, and in utero at the time.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Brainhurts I was so flattered you said I was a rockstar! I was actually thinking last week that I was determined to be a Plan B success on MB and for one day someone to post that rocksolid was a rockstar!! After one week of Plan B you saying that I feel very encouraged. Thanks!!
If you stay on this path of Plan B you will continue to be a rockstar!!
Oh my goodness, your Plan B will be legendary and will be the thread we direct all who come after!

I ADORE Anne of Green Gables and I'm so jealous!

I used to have "the truth will set you free" in my sig, not solely because of it being a bible verse, but because of its use in Anne's House of Dreams. There, Anne, Gilbert, and their friend Leslie face a tough moral choice and choose logic and principle over emotion. Leslie also does something very brave due to her respect for her responsibility in marriage.

If you don't know what I'm talking about or how the truth sets her free, do read it!

Hi Indie

No I've never read Anne's House of Dreams and don't know who Leslie is. I am going to have to read that for sure!! I really like the idea of chossing logic over emotion. That sounds like what Plan B is all about. Thank you so much for that I will definately get that book plus the others.

Wow I would be honoured if people read my thread one day who were doing Plan B smile I better not fail then!

Neak did you find your holiday album? I bet your trip was amazing!

Catwhit I'm actually staying in Cavendish! I can't wait to see the beaches. I chose Cavendish as it was central to all the Anne things. That lobster supper you had sounds delicous.
Week 1 over of Plan B. I survived. It can only get better from here.

Onto day 8. Thanks everyone!
Haven't looked yet, it's been crazy. crazy

Kindle version of all Anne of Green Gables books for $0.99:

http://www.amazon.com/Anne-Green-Ga...sr=1-3&keywords=anne+of+green+gables
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Oh my goodness, your Plan B will be legendary and will be the thread we direct all who come after!

I ADORE Anne of Green Gables and I'm so jealous!

I used to have "the truth will set you free" in my sig, not solely because of it being a bible verse, but because of its use in Anne's House of Dreams. There, Anne, Gilbert, and their friend Leslie face a tough moral choice and choose logic and principle over emotion. Leslie also does something very brave due to her respect for her responsibility in marriage.

If you don't know what I'm talking about or how the truth sets her free, do read it!

I have read Anne of Green Gables to my children at bedtime.
It is a good book/ series of books.
The Blue Castle (Not an Anne book, but terrific nonetheless.)

Valancy Stirling has been downtrodden and marginalized her whole life. After turning 29 and past all hope of escaping old-maidness, she learns that she only has a year to live. Casting aside all the fears that held her down, she decides to cut a very wide swath.

Quote
Valancy tried to read a story, but it made her furious. On every page was a picture of the heroine surrounded by adoring men. And there was she, Valancy Stirling, who could not get a solitary beau! Valancy slammed the magazine shut; she opened Magic of Wings. Her eyes fell on the paragraph that changed her life.

"Fear is the original sin," wrote John Foster. "Almost all the evil in the world has its origin in the fact that someone is afraid of something. It is a cold, slimy serpent coiling about you. It is horrible to live with fear; and it is of all things degrading."

Valancy shut Magic of Wings and stood up. She would go and see Dr. Trent.
It is good isn't it Jedi! Do you have girls? Unfortunately my DS won't listen to an Anne of Green Gables story! Well he's going to be stuck with hearing about it on Prince Edward Island smile

Neak that Blue Castle book sounds amazing just what I need. I will look for that on ebay. And 99cents for the kindle books what a bargain!

I have a lot of reading to do!

I'm feeling so much stronger now I'm in Plan B. I miss my H like crazy and still light our wedding candle at night to shine the way home for him. I pray to God at night to give my H the strength to come home to me.

And then I continue getting on with things and concentrate on my son and our trip and making the most of each day. The last six months have been so hurtful and draining but I am determined to have a GREAT year. My WH may be miserable with POSOW but I will not live my life like that! I am going to come out stronger and a better person.

I dearly want to reconcile my marriage, and hope he comes back but if this doesn't happen I am going to LIVE MY LIFE AND NOT WASTE A SECOND!!

Thanks everyone smile



Neak, is Magic of Wings an actual book also?
Yes, I have DS (11), DD (9) and DD(7).
We read Anne of Green Gables a year ago.
We are currently reading an Oz book: The Patchwork Girl of Oz.

I read to my kids every night, and often sing to them.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I pray to God at night to give my H the strength to come home to me.

Do you read the Bible daily?
There is a Bible Devotion posted daily in the Forum, if you scroll down to the bottom.
Hi Jedi

That's great you read your girls every night. Is the Patchwork Girl of Oz funny? I believe the best thing you can do with your kids is read with them. It's so wonderful when your kids love books and reading. I used to take my DD to the library when she was little and now my DS.

No I don't read the bible but I pray a lot. I have been thinking about the bible and getting in touch with God more. I can't see that devotion maybe I'm not looking in the right place. Is it where all the topics are listed?
Ah yes I just found the devotionals. Thanks Jedi
Magic of Wings is a fictional book by Valancy's favorite author, John Foster. John Foster, in the story, is a mysterious man who writes popular and uplifting nature books. No one knows who he is or where he's from, only that he must be in Canada somewhere. You will love this book.

Read little bits of the gospels, even just a couple verses at a time to build the habit of reading the Word. Look for Bible storybooks, too. I have some favorite books of Biblical fiction that I read over and over again, and find a new blessing each time.
Thanks Neak I always enjoy reading something new. Especially things that make me think and have positive messages. I downloaded The Blue Castle onto my phone and Anne's house of dreams.

Great ideas about the bible too.

I'm so upset and crying. I don't know what to do or how to proceed.

My DS informed me that his daddy told him that he had found a house to buy with OW.

I'm so devastated. I feel like I can't breathe and am falling apart all over again.

How could he go and do this to me knowing how much I love him. He knew this one thing would destroy me yet he is gong to do it anyway.

I thought he loved me. Even a few weeks ago when I saw him last he said he was trying to avoid buying a house with her. Well he hasn't tried very hard has he? Doesn't he have a voice? I don't understand.

I know the love I saw in his eyes for me. I know he loves me. Who makes that sort of commitment to someone who they don't apparently love? Why won't he say no? I have no chance anymore I just know it.

He has made so many promises to me saying that he doesn't see it lasting with her and that it's ME he wants to spend his life with. But he doesn't want to hurt her. Yet he has no qualms about hurting his wife who has been hanging on like a lap dog for the past two years!!

He told me that we would be together by September and that he really couldn't see it lasting any longer with OW. So if he truly believes this, why would he go and make a commitment of buying a house with her?? Why buy a house with someone that you don't think is going to last?

Or is everything that comes out of his mouth one big LIE?

So broken right now. I love my H so much. I can't believe he continues to hurt me and hurt me and hurt me.

I guess it's out of sight out of mind for him. Looks like my Plan B letter has given him the green light to go and buy his house with OW. Guess he hasn't missed me AT ALL. He's obviously not been pining me whatsoever.

I guess 10 days of NC he hasn't spared a thought for me. As soon as I'm out of the picture he's 'YES now she's gone I will now go buy a house with POSOW'. So much for him missing me and desperately wanting me back. Nope.

Once again his actions have spoken louder than words.

I feel like such a fool for waiting and hoping for something that is never going to happen.

SHE'S WON. I guess POSOW is feeling pretty happy with herself right now. I hate her so much. Even after she knew he'd been seeing me she still continued to cling onto my husband so I wouldn't have him.

I just really thought he loved me you know? Even through everything I could just look into his eyes and see that he loved me. But obviously not enough hey.

I guess he's just like any typical wayward afterall.

What's the point anymore? He's made his choice. I'm so p*ssed off that he has hurt me again.

I so want to contact him badly and tell him how much he has hurt me and how could he do this to me. I want him to know the pain he has caused me. But I won't. It will all fall on deaf ears and nothing I say will change anything.

These last ten days of NC I have come so far in just that short time and felt I was doing so well. I was doing well. And now this has come to light and I just feel hopeless and worthless.

Should I just divorce him and cut my losses and accept that it's truly over?

I've been reading Love must Be Tough and have felt so encouraged but I don't know what to think anymore.

I'm sick of feeling this pain frown

How do I pick myself up from yet another blow?

Why can't my marriage just get the break it needs??

Indie I know you said you had no fear they would break up whatsoever but I just can't see it happening anymore. And that he would be back on bended knee to me. I can't see that either. I really wanted to believe this and hoped for it but after today I feel so broken and uninspired.

I know Dr Harley says most affairs end in 2 years but they've been living together nearly 2 years and dated a year before that so they've basically been together 3 years frown

Even when he cheated on her with me she still clung on like a dog. I don't think she is ever going to leave and he obviously won't tell her to.

So gutted frown




I'm so sorry for your pain. I know this hurts, but do not contact him.

It's going to take awhile for your WH to know you're serious because he has had both of you for 3 years. Stay strong and remain dark.

Stay strong, my friend.
Thanks Brainhurts. I won't contact him. It hurts so much.

I thought even after 10 days he would see I am serious because I have never lasted more than a few days before.

Do you see any hope left for us?



Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Brainhurts. I won't contact him. It hurts so much.

I thought even after 10 days he would see I am serious because I have never lasted more than a few days before.

Do you see any hope left for us?
He knows you're serious, but expects you to break and crawl back to him. It's going to take some real time for him to see you aren't going to take his abuse anymore.

He also knew your DS would run home and tell you this information and so he is probably very shocked you didn't contact him.

If he wants to sink his financials into this OW he will have to learn. He's a big boy who has had 2 women doing everything for him for the past 3 years. Let him get all his ENs met by her and let the financial stress run all over him. Buying a house is very stressful.

I know it hurts, but sit back and let it rain down on him. The OW will drain him.

Where you're going to have to remain strong is when he tries to break NC and tries to complain to you about her.

So let's see how to plug this Plan B hole.

What can you do the next time your DS wants to tell you something your WH tells him?
Also do me a favor. Listen to this radio show of Dr. Harley telling the wives when enough abuse is enough and what they need to do. Mind you this is about 2 WW, but the BH and one is now a WH are trying to "punish" their WWs.

Tell us what you think.
Radio Clip
I agree plug the hole. Stay Rocksolid. Its hard not to constantly think of your WS but what makes it harder is getting new info all the time. My mistake has been seeking it out. You can stay dark about yourself but you also need to stay dark about what you learn about them.
Every bit of advice I have googled or asked about comes back to the same advice I have been given here, focus on yourself. Do something for yourself no matter how small it is. Like today I am going to wash the car so I can take a drive out to get a new air freshner for it. Its something small but its a distraction.
At the end of the day you can only rely on yourself.
Hi Rock,
I am a FWW, so I don't know the pain your feeling, I only know the pain I caused my BH.
I've been following your thread and I just wanted to say how sorry I am at this new "development", I know from reading how important him not purchasing a home with POSOW.
I'm so sorry for what your going through, it's threads like yours, that remind me of the turmoil and distruction I (and all WW's) caused, it's a HORRIBLE feeling, I hope that one day your WH will see it and feel it.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm so upset and crying. I don't know what to do or how to proceed.

My DS informed me that his daddy told him that he had found a house to buy with OW.

I'm so devastated. I feel like I can't breathe and am falling apart all over again.

How could he go and do this to me knowing how much I love him. He knew this one thing would destroy me yet he is gong to do it anyway.

I thought he loved me. Even a few weeks ago when I saw him last he said he was trying to avoid buying a house with her. Well he hasn't tried very hard has he? Doesn't he have a voice? I don't understand.

I know the love I saw in his eyes for me. I know he loves me. Who makes that sort of commitment to someone who they don't apparently love? Why won't he say no? I have no chance anymore I just know it.

He has made so many promises to me saying that he doesn't see it lasting with her and that it's ME he wants to spend his life with. But he doesn't want to hurt her. Yet he has no qualms about hurting his wife who has been hanging on like a lap dog for the past two years!!

He told me that we would be together by September and that he really couldn't see it lasting any longer with OW. So if he truly believes this, why would he go and make a commitment of buying a house with her?? Why buy a house with someone that you don't think is going to last?

Or is everything that comes out of his mouth one big LIE?

So broken right now. I love my H so much. I can't believe he continues to hurt me and hurt me and hurt me.

I guess it's out of sight out of mind for him. Looks like my Plan B letter has given him the green light to go and buy his house with OW. Guess he hasn't missed me AT ALL. He's obviously not been pining me whatsoever.

I guess 10 days of NC he hasn't spared a thought for me. As soon as I'm out of the picture he's 'YES now she's gone I will now go buy a house with POSOW'. So much for him missing me and desperately wanting me back. Nope.

Once again his actions have spoken louder than words.

I feel like such a fool for waiting and hoping for something that is never going to happen.

SHE'S WON. I guess POSOW is feeling pretty happy with herself right now. I hate her so much. Even after she knew he'd been seeing me she still continued to cling onto my husband so I wouldn't have him.

I just really thought he loved me you know? Even through everything I could just look into his eyes and see that he loved me. But obviously not enough hey.

I guess he's just like any typical wayward afterall.

What's the point anymore? He's made his choice. I'm so p*ssed off that he has hurt me again.

I so want to contact him badly and tell him how much he has hurt me and how could he do this to me. I want him to know the pain he has caused me. But I won't. It will all fall on deaf ears and nothing I say will change anything.

These last ten days of NC I have come so far in just that short time and felt I was doing so well. I was doing well. And now this has come to light and I just feel hopeless and worthless.

Should I just divorce him and cut my losses and accept that it's truly over?

I've been reading Love must Be Tough and have felt so encouraged but I don't know what to think anymore.

I'm sick of feeling this pain frown

How do I pick myself up from yet another blow?

Why can't my marriage just get the break it needs??

Indie I know you said you had no fear they would break up whatsoever but I just can't see it happening anymore. And that he would be back on bended knee to me. I can't see that either. I really wanted to believe this and hoped for it but after today I feel so broken and uninspired.

I know Dr Harley says most affairs end in 2 years but they've been living together nearly 2 years and dated a year before that so they've basically been together 3 years frown

Even when he cheated on her with me she still clung on like a dog. I don't think she is ever going to leave and he obviously won't tell her to.

So gutted frown


Honey, you must expect such things. When you have two drunks running around they are capable of pretty much anything, so you must expect anything.

The good news is that the things they do have no significance. They ARE drunk and not even a marriage ceremony could make them sober, or make their actions mean something. The things they do will also not last. It's all fleeting.

I have some concerns about you praying for him and the wedding candle. I will let the more religious folks chime in here as it's not my wheelhouse, but I can't see that being good for your Plan B.

Obviously I don't find it morally objectionable, on the contrary it is sweet and strong and true. It's just for Plan B you have to disengage yourself, withdraw from nostalgia and not rake up your feelings so much with items from your wedding! It keeps the love bank alive, keeps the memory of the old husband alive and makes the actions of the alien that much more surprisingly hurtful.

You are honouring your marriage by being faithful and taking a stand against adultery. Your task now is to make YOU strong -or there cannot be any kind of recovery, marital or personal.

As I said, I feel timid about such suggestions, but I would rather more pray for my efforts to continue being successful and for continued strength. Perhaps use your faith to show trust in the path being shown you and that you accept a rocky path for the greater good. That you will not stumble.


My suggestions are:

1) see a lawyer. How will his possibly making a house purchase affect your rights financially as his wife ( does that mean you would own it and take half in any potential divorce?)
2) remember that this is just TALK of a house - probably to disrupt your Plan B. I'd bet my favourite shoes he is just firing his pea shooter, scared of your new found strength.
3) read Anne of Avonlea, Anne of the Island, Anne of Windy Poplars, Anne's House of Dreams, Anne of Ingleside and Rilla of Ingleside.

The last book, about Anne's daughter is arguably the best. The Anne books are perfect escapism for you, poor chicky, but they are also laugh out loud funny and good soul food - you'll be forty times wiser when you are through.

If his name goes on a house that he purchases while still married to you it becomes your property, too. Any mortgage company or title company will insist that you sign for the house as well.
Originally Posted by Brits_Brat
If his name goes on a house that he purchases while still married to you it becomes your property, too. Any mortgage company or title company will insist that you sign for the house as well.
Is this true in the UK also? She's in the UK.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by Brits_Brat
If his name goes on a house that he purchases while still married to you it becomes your property, too. Any mortgage company or title company will insist that you sign for the house as well.
Is this true in the UK also? She's in the UK.


Hi Brits_Brat and BrainHurts, I'm in Australia. I think any random person can buy a house and it doesn't matter here.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Brainhurts. I won't contact him. It hurts so much.

I thought even after 10 days he would see I am serious because I have never lasted more than a few days before.

Do you see any hope left for us?
He knows you're serious, but expects you to break and crawl back to him. It's going to take some real time for him to see you aren't going to take his abuse anymore.

He also knew your DS would run home and tell you this information and so he is probably very shocked you didn't contact him.

If he wants to sink his financials into this OW he will have to learn. He's a big boy who has had 2 women doing everything for him for the past 3 years. Let him get all his ENs met by her and let the financial stress run all over him. Buying a house is very stressful.

I know it hurts, but sit back and let it rain down on him. The OW will drain him.

Where you're going to have to remain strong is when he tries to break NC and tries to complain to you about her.

So let's see how to plug this Plan B hole.

What can you do the next time your DS wants to tell you something your WH tells him?


Brainhurts I can't see any way really that my WH would try and break NC. He doesn't have my number and email anymore. The only way would be if he turned up on my doorstep. And I know that ain't happening while he remains with OW. The reason I know this is because he isn't allowed by OW and SHE put a GPS tracker on his phone 24/7 and she is always checking where he is. Any minute unaccounted for she knows about it. (see how obsessed she is! It should be the wife that tracks a husband not an OW!)

So I know the only time he would turn up on my doorstep would be if he had left her. He often told me that he will turn up on my doorstep when they broke up. Hmmm we'll see if that ever happens.

I guess I have to tell DS that I can't hear anything else about Daddy and OW. I admit I have fished for info cause I feel I just have to know. And then when I do know it hurts. I have to be stronger in that regard. I know DS feels bad telling me stuff and he always gives me cuddles. I need to be the Mum and act strong.

I think your'e right in saying that WH will be expecting me to crawl back and break NC. After all that's what I've always done. He's probably surprised I've gone this long.



Originally Posted by rocksolid
I guess I have to tell DS that I can't hear anything else about Daddy and OW. I admit I have fished for info cause I feel I just have to know. And then when I do know it hurts. I have to be stronger in that regard. I know DS feels bad telling me stuff and he always gives me cuddles. I need to be the Mum and act strong.

I think your'e right in saying that WH will be expecting me to crawl back and break NC. After all that's what I've always done. He's probably surprised I've gone this long.
My bad, Australia, thanks.

Good girl on coming up with ways to plug the holes. It will probably take some relief off your DS, because he doesn't have to make Mom sad.
Thanks Brain for that link to the radio show. I just finished listening to the whole program. That definately gave me a lot to think about regarding revenge affairs. I haven't been able to find a lot of info on that so that was helpful.

So you would say my WH is deliberately punishing me for my A that occurred over 3 years ago? That he is still punishing me? He has often said that he has forgiven me long ago for that and that he is the one who has the making up to do. And he has said that he never got OW for revenge, he did it to feel good about himself again. I remember Indie commenting way back when I started posting that revenge affairs begin selfishly and as an affront to the marriage.

Do you think that WH'S actually KNOW they are doing it to get revenge and punish? Do they do it deliberately to hurt the BS or is it a more subconcious thing? They don't think they are doing it to punish when deep down on some level they are? Does that even make sense??

When my H would look at me these past months with so much love, and talk to me with so much love it just doesn't seem he would be cruel enough to think 'I'm going to keep on punishing her'. I guess he's just punishing me without realising it?

Originally Posted by Bluebeck
I agree plug the hole. Stay Rocksolid. Its hard not to constantly think of your WS but what makes it harder is getting new info all the time. My mistake has been seeking it out. You can stay dark about yourself but you also need to stay dark about what you learn about them.
Every bit of advice I have googled or asked about comes back to the same advice I have been given here, focus on yourself. Do something for yourself no matter how small it is. Like today I am going to wash the car so I can take a drive out to get a new air freshner for it. Its something small but its a distraction.
At the end of the day you can only rely on yourself.


Thanks bluebeck for reading my thread. Yes I find it hard to remain dark about stuff going on with WH. And then sometimes I ask what's going on and know I shouldn't. I've been trying to focus on myself and doing lots of reading. Just getting through each day is an achievement in itself sometimes.
Hi Indie

I know what you mean about me praying for my H and lighting our wedding candle may not be good for My Plan B. I don't really feel like it tonight now as it's been such a draining afternoon and evening. When I light our candle and pray for our marriage I end up very emotional and crying so maybe I should stop for a while.

I've been thinking about the lawyer stuff lately too. I think I might do that when I return from my trip.

I'm planning on reading those books too. Does it matter what order I read them in? Was thinking Anne's house of Dreams first because you said Leslie did something great to stand up for her marriage?

I really hope I don't stumble and I hope I have a great personal recovery. I really don't want another crap year being treated like a doormat. It's so draining and hurtful.

It took a lot of strength to even get through 10 days of Plan B. I would be so dissapointed in myself if I went back to square one and broke NC. I can't take this abuse anymore.

Thanks Indie. Everyone on here is so wise!

Originally Posted by mrs_cen
Hi Rock,
I am a FWW, so I don't know the pain your feeling, I only know the pain I caused my BH.
I've been following your thread and I just wanted to say how sorry I am at this new "development", I know from reading how important him not purchasing a home with POSOW.
I'm so sorry for what your going through, it's threads like yours, that remind me of the turmoil and distruction I (and all WW's) caused, it's a HORRIBLE feeling, I hope that one day your WH will see it and feel it.


Hi mrs_cen

Thanks for following my thread. I need all the encouragement I can get! I am actually a FWW too. So my H was a BH and now he is a WH. So he knows exactly that horrible feeling that I am feeling. And now I know firsthand what he felt cause he is now doing it to me.

Are you now fully recovered?
Well you listened to the clip and the WW had a on again off again affair for 4 years and now her BH is a WH and Dr. Harley told her to go to Plan B because her WH is punishing her. Like you, she is trying everything to mend her marriage but the WH won't allow it.

Who knows if your WH's affair started as a RA an Is still punishing you for it, but it seems that way.

I just hope you stay dark.
Indie

Do you honestly still believe there is no hope WH and OW will last after them being together so long now?

I don't see her leaving ever and I don't see him ever telling her to, so what do you think will be their downfall?
Hi Brain

Yes I do plan on staying dark. What is the suggestion if I happened to pass him in the street and he tries to stop and talk to me? Do I ignore him? Do I smile and say I'll talk to you when she's out of the house? Get away as quickly as possible and don't engage him I guess?

Originally Posted by rocksolid
So my H was a BH and now he is a WH. So he knows exactly that horrible feeling that I am feeling. And now I know firsthand what he felt cause he is now doing it to me.

You dont know what he feels.
Most people involved in sin, whether is being drunk, being mean to others or committing adultery aren't thinking of anyone other than themselves.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Indie

I know what you mean about me praying for my H and lighting our wedding candle may not be good for My Plan B. I don't really feel like it tonight now as it's been such a draining afternoon and evening. When I light our candle and pray for our marriage I end up very emotional and crying so maybe I should stop for a while.

The Bible says to take our concerns to the Lord.

Personally, I am a BH and our 3 kids live with me.
We pray every night for WW and her mother, along with all of our relatives and friends.
I dont know how you are praying, but instead of praying for your husband to return you may want to consider praying for "God's will to be done."

Another prayer which I learned in Alanon:
God, grant me the courage the change the things I can change.
The strength to accept the things I cannot change;
and the wisdom to know the difference.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I know what you mean about me praying for my H and lighting our wedding candle may not be good for My Plan B. I don't really feel like it tonight now as it's been such a draining afternoon and evening. When I light our candle and pray for our marriage I end up very emotional and crying so maybe I should stop for a while.


I would stop it forever as you are just triggering yourself. You know that you are really taking sneaky sips of the love drug you are supposed to be in withdrawal from. That's why you feel lousy. Don't do the addict's trick of stopping 'for a while' because you feel hungover. We all think you should hold fast to your commitment - but to your feelings of love? Not so much. Prayer is supposed to be peaceful, right?

Mortarman was a man of faith and I would read his post on windows, doors and walls if I were you. Sometimes there is a plan bigger than what you personally want. I found myself returning to that idea of his a lot.

I like Jedi's suggestions of making your prayers less of a personal petition, less triggery and more philosophical.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indie

Do you honestly still believe there is no hope WH and OW will last after them being together so long now?

I don't see her leaving ever and I don't see him ever telling her to, so what do you think will be their downfall?


I am 100pc certain their love won't survive. A camelia can't survive an ice storm. But it doesn't necessarily mean he is to be freed from his addiciton and returned to you. It's quite likely but not at all certain. There are options that could keep the addiction alive.

He could keep her on, but supplant her with a second and even a a third mistress, he could turn to a completely different woman and cheat on her... we have to remember that however much freeing himself is best, he has free will and the freedom to choose folly and sin. Some people even willingly choose unhappiness.

The best plans prepare for the worst, as well as hoping for the best. That's why in Plan B, you focus on yourself and you focus on making your feelings of love 'go to sleep'. If he comes home, he will be able to reawaken the feelings which will be unhurt and if he does not, divorce will hurt less.

However if your feelings are awake, they will constantly be getting hurt by the neglect and trauma. You may end up hating him - and all recovery chances are done with then.

If he does have his road to Damascus moment and wants to come home, I'd rather you were not very much in love with him. If you are, you won't want to set the very bar very high - you won't be stern enough to insist on a tough recovery. You can always fall back in love later.

For me, I got so happy this way I choose divorce; I couldn't be bothered with waiting for him. If I'd had a son, I would have done the whole two years and if appropriate I would have given recovery a try for the child. I would have done that knowing that MB can turn off and then turn love back on.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Get away as quickly as possible and don't engage him I guess?


Yes I think that is the best way to stay dark.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm planning on reading those books too. Does it matter what order I read them in?


Yes because they are about Anne growing up and getting married. The House of Dreams book is about her first home as a new wife so you might want to read about her going to college and her teaching career and her boyfriends first.

This is a good plan smile

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by mrs_cen
Hi Rock,
I am a FWW, so I don't know the pain your feeling, I only know the pain I caused my BH.
I've been following your thread and I just wanted to say how sorry I am at this new "development", I know from reading how important him not purchasing a home with POSOW.
I'm so sorry for what your going through, it's threads like yours, that remind me of the turmoil and distruction I (and all WW's) caused, it's a HORRIBLE feeling, I hope that one day your WH will see it and feel it.


Hi mrs_cen

Thanks for following my thread. I need all the encouragement I can get! I am actually a FWW too. So my H was a BH and now he is a WH. So he knows exactly that horrible feeling that I am feeling. And now I know firsthand what he felt cause he is now doing it to me.

Are you now fully recovered?

We are just over a year into our recovery ~ there were many times I didn't think we'd make it & looking back this time last year seems a lifetime ago. We work our recovery everyday, sometimes they bring new challenges, sometimes they are just quiet reflections or reminders but each day is better, each day is brighter, we look forward to our future.

[/quote]

The Bible says to take our concerns to the Lord.

Personally, I am a BH and our 3 kids live with me.
We pray every night for WW and her mother, along with all of our relatives and friends.
I dont know how you are praying, but instead of praying for your husband to return you may want to consider praying for "God's will to be done."

Another prayer which I learned in Alanon:
God, grant me the courage the change the things I can change.
The strength to accept the things I cannot change;
and the wisdom to know the difference.[/quote]



Hi Jedi

I am constantly amazed at your strength in raising your kids on your own. That's so nice you all pray for your WW. What a good dad they have.

You're right I have been praying for my husband to come home. I like your prayer from alanon I will borrow that thanks. When you went to alanon was that because of your WW's addiction? Do you think you learned a lot from alanon like the addiction of a wayward is exactly the same as an alcoholic? Do you think all addictions are pretty much the same? They have to hit rock bottom and want to help themselves? Sorry if I misunderstand, I just want to learn as much as I can about it.

Your advice is always much appreciated thanks.

Hi Indie

I like your idea of putting my 'love to sleep'. I can imagine me tucking it into bed and waking it up one day if he comes back. Just letting it rest there under the covers!

I'm trying so hard to focus on myself. I know I can get through this with everybody's support here.

Deep down I don't think they will last either but I need to focus on myself and getting better and staying dark. This is so hard.

Do I think about the time limit of Plan B too much? I always think they've been together almost 3 years but I've only gone into Plan B recently. How long should I remain in Plan B? If I do it for 2 years like suggested that means they will have been together 5 years! Hardly any hope if it's been that long.

I have a date in my mind how long to do it and it's less than a year.

Or do I not worry about dates and just focus on myself and see what happens?

Thanks

Here it is.
Originally Posted by Mortarman
Sounds like you are doing the battle plan. So, let me just nibble around the edges.

As I eluded to above, make sure you include taking care of you. Remember, the first rule of combat is "take care of yourself." Why? Because if you dont, then you are no good to anyone else. Your kids (and maybe even your WW) are counting on you to be there. So, make sure you do tyhe little things that take care of you.

Second, you might want to shorten your prayers. Jesus sees you. He is standing right there with you. The betrayal you feel, He feels also...because your wife has not only betrayed you, she has betrayed Him. He weeps as you do.

Instead, my prayers got shorter as time went on...well, let me clarify that. I talk to Jesus constantly. That is the relationship part of the two of us. But when I say I shortened my prayers, I mean that I stopped with the laundry list of requests. He knows what I need.

All I ask now is two things. Number one is that His will be done, not mine. And number two, that he shows me walls and doors. Walls and doors are nothing but this...

In the Bible, it says that He is a lamp unto our feet. What does that mean? Well, in that day, the lamp they were talking about was a lamp with a candle in it...illuminating the path of a traveller at night. Well, how far does a candle illuminate? Not too far! Maybe a few steps in front of you.

But I have NO IDEA what lies down the road. It might be a dead end. It might be a cliff. I have no clue. And that is the point! When I pray "walls and doors," I am saying to Him "Jesus, I can only see a few steps in front. I am trusting you. So, I will pray for you to show me walls and doors. If the path I am on, if the decision I am making is not YOUR will, then please put a wall in front of me so I dont go over the cliff. If it is your will, then show me a door to go through."

Since I have done that...since I have relinguished my will to control my path...guess what? I have gotten walls and doors.

So, when I have designs to do something...but then it just seems to be getting harder and harder to do...and I cant get it done...I look up and ask "is this a wall?" And I quickly find out that even though I wanted to do this thing, it wasnt His will. And so I thank him, make a left or right face (or even an about face sometimes)...and we continue.

My relationship with Christ is one of beginnings. He walks with me. At times I stumble. But instead of laughing at me, or admonishing me, He just reaches down, picks me up, dusts me off...and we begin again. One foot in front of the other.

This is where you need to get to. You CANNOT control what is going on in the foxhole next to you. All you can do is concentrate on what is between your sector stakes...and let God handle the rest.

One last thing...my favorite general of all time once said "Wisdom is nothing more than healed pain." General Robert E. Lee

You are about to become VERY wise.
Thanks brainhurts for posting that by mortarman. He seems very wise. I like the idea about the walls and doors. I will go back and read that again later.

Do you have a link to your story BH? I noticed you are a FWW/BW also.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks brainhurts for posting that by mortarman. He seems very wise. I like the idea about the walls and doors. I will go back and read that again later.

Do you have a link to your story BH? I noticed you are a FWW/BW also.
I don't have a link to my BH, I just have my story.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Indie

I like your idea of putting my 'love to sleep'. I can imagine me tucking it into bed and waking it up one day if he comes back. Just letting it rest there under the covers!

I'm trying so hard to focus on myself. I know I can get through this with everybody's support here.

Deep down I don't think they will last either but I need to focus on myself and getting better and staying dark. This is so hard.

Do I think about the time limit of Plan B too much? I always think they've been together almost 3 years but I've only gone into Plan B recently. How long should I remain in Plan B? If I do it for 2 years like suggested that means they will have been together 5 years! Hardly any hope if it's been that long.

I have a date in my mind how long to do it and it's less than a year.

Or do I not worry about dates and just focus on myself and see what happens?

Thanks


It really does go to sleep! I remember Scotland telling me it would get put into a safe in case I needed it, and not truly believing her. When it happened I was astonished - so cool and calm and able to make purely logical decisions. I decided as a young woman with no children I didn't want to give him any more of my precious time.

For my chosen path I obviously don't want the love 'reawakened' but that's easily avoided with no contact. It's better for my personal recovery that I wasn't torn down piece by piece. I never did get to the point of hating him. Indifference is better.

I needed timescales too. I was advised to focus on the next six months, then to reevaluate at that point for the following six. I'd like to see you past most of the pain at that point and really seeing some benefits of Plan B.

You only get out what you put in. If you moon over WH a whole lot, you won't do as well.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Do I think about the time limit of Plan B too much? I always think they've been together almost 3 years but I've only gone into Plan B recently. How long should I remain in Plan B? If I do it for 2 years like suggested that means they will have been together 5 years! Hardly any hope if it's been that long.


Well that's OK because hope is not a plan.

Really though you were propping the A up during that time. You were rewarding him with a second source of needs and giving him his desire for revenge. That could have gone on indefinitely because he wasn't going to give up the set up until he had destroyed you with selfishness. The clock on their A only started when you went into Plan B.

Hi indie

I really do want to heal and get to that point where I can make cool logical decisions. Is your WH still in your area or do you have completely no clue what he is up to? How long did it take you to decide that it wasn't worth waiting anymore?

this morning I was driving my car and WH drove past. He saw me and waved at me. I waved back. It was instinct. Have I now broken my plan b? I hope not.

When he waved at me he looked genuinely miserable.

It made me sad seeing him and I cried after.

I was so tempted to call him straight after and ask him if he still loved me and tell him I love him. I didn't.

So now I need to acknowledge my weaknesses even more now. I am weak in wanting to talk to him. I am going to be weak if I happen to see him somewhere. So I need to be even darker and act like I've fallen off the face of the earth. I really want to heal. I don't want to cry anymore. I'm so determined to feel better for my holiday.

I need to not ask DS for any more info. I have to look at the places I'm weak and avoid these things.

Did I break NC by waving back in my car? So to avoid this again I need to sing along in my car and focus on the road and not who is driving past. I shouldn't even notice if he has driven past because I am too busy concentrating on fabulous me! Thoughts?

Thanks indie for clearing up the thing about the time and the clock on the affair. That's what i was getting confused with. So i might stick out the 2 years but evaluate every six months and see how i feel.
Hi brain hurts I meant do you have posts about your story? I didn't mean I wanted a link to your H! Not sure if that's what you thought I meant
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Jedi

I am constantly amazed at your strength in raising your kids on your own. That's so nice you all pray for your WW. What a good dad they have.

You're right I have been praying for my husband to come home. I like your prayer from alanon I will borrow that thanks. When you went to alanon was that because of your WW's addiction? Do you think you learned a lot from alanon like the addiction of a wayward is exactly the same as an alcoholic? Do you think all addictions are pretty much the same? They have to hit rock bottom and want to help themselves? Sorry if I misunderstand, I just want to learn as much as I can about it.

Your advice is always much appreciated thanks.

I went to alanon because I was affected by alcoholism...my MIL had lived with us a third of our marriage and was a binge drinker.
I learned that I was actually enabling the drinking and when my wife and I lied to the children to protect the MIL (example" Grandma is in the hospital because shes sick" was code for "Grandma got alcohol poisoning and is in ICU) I was enabling the sickness.

Alanon has a role for helping friends and families affected by alcoholism. It is not for recovering for an affair, etc. or any marriage building concepts other than individual responsibility.

EDIT: Like with indfidelity, alanon generally encourages speaking the truth to children. It's when we lie to conceal the self destructive actions of others that we confuse our children.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi indie

I really do want to heal and get to that point where I can make cool logical decisions. Is your WH still in your area or do you have completely no clue what he is up to? How long did it take you to decide that it wasn't worth waiting anymore?

this morning I was driving my car and WH drove past. He saw me and waved at me. I waved back. It was instinct. Have I now broken my plan b? I hope not.

When he waved at me he looked genuinely miserable.

It made me sad seeing him and I cried after.

I was so tempted to call him straight after and ask him if he still loved me and tell him I love him. I didn't.

So now I need to acknowledge my weaknesses even more now. I am weak in wanting to talk to him. I am going to be weak if I happen to see him somewhere. So I need to be even darker and act like I've fallen off the face of the earth. I really want to heal. I don't want to cry anymore. I'm so determined to feel better for my holiday.

I need to not ask DS for any more info. I have to look at the places I'm weak and avoid these things.

Did I break NC by waving back in my car? So to avoid this again I need to sing along in my car and focus on the road and not who is driving past. I shouldn't even notice if he has driven past because I am too busy concentrating on fabulous me! Thoughts?

Don't beat yourself up over waving at him.
That was a split second reaction which you weren't prepared for.
It was better to wave than flip him off!
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi brain hurts I meant do you have posts about your story? I didn't mean I wanted a link to your H! Not sure if that's what you thought I meant
Haha I knew what you meant, but my response did sound confusing. Sorry about that. smile
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Don't beat yourself up over waving at him.
That was a split second reaction which you weren't prepared for.
It was better to wave than flip him off!

I agree.
Hi Brainhurts and Jedi thanks for replying. Phew glad I'm not in trouble about the wave!

Crying on and off today. Seeing him this morning has upset me knowing he is with OW and not caring about me.

Jedi thanks for sharing about alanon and your
MIL. My brother is an alcoholic and has been for about the last ten years I would say. He is 35 and still lives at home with my Dad. It's surprising because my brother has managed to keep a full time job all these years. He's never saved a cent and pays no rent and I don't see him ever leaving. All his money goes to alcohol.

I've tried to talk to my brother in the past but he refuses help. He does admit he is an alcoholic. He's never had a car license and he's admitted if he had a license he would probably kill someone because of his drinking. So I guess that's good he is recognizing that fact and not getting a license.

He drinks every day after work and every weekend. He gets very drunk and swears a lot. I do feel my Dad has enabled it a lot and let's him carry on and my Dad even drives him to the pub all the time. My dad just accepts that he is an alcoholic and he won't change. But I fear him taking him to the pub is not the answer.

My brother spoils family functions by acting like an idiot and embarrasing himself. But he doesn't see it.

The funny thing is my brother and I used to be so close when we were little. But he is such a different person now. When he's sober he is very withdrawn and you can't get a conversation out of him. Yet when he's drunk you can't shut him up and he'll talk heaps to you. It's hard when he's quiet and won't talk but at least he's sober. But on the other hand when he's drunk you at least have him interacting and laughing with you but you know it's the alcohol talking.

Jedi I'm not too clued in on the ins and out of alcoholism. Would you consider my brother a full on alcoholic if he's holding down a job at the same time?

Sorry for going totally off topic on my thread.
It sounds like your brother is what they call a "functioning alcoholic".

Have you thought about going to AlAnon? I would invite your dad also.
Yes I would go to Alanon. I would approach my Dad about it but I don't think Dad would go. Dad seems to sweep it all under the carpet.

I agree with Jedi you did ok in an off guard moment and could have done worse! You'll have these little Plan B moments where you'll see little gaps and how to tighten them up. That's because your Plan B landscape is different to everyone else's and after the big avenues of contact are closed off, you'll be in charge of spotting the little ones.

I find it really pleasing that you are already brain storming ways to avoid this experience. Perhaps taking different routes or like you say avoiding scrutiny of drivers. I used to avoid looking closely at any big white people carrier similar to OWs car.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi indie

I really do want to heal and get to that point where I can make cool logical decisions. Is your WH still in your area or do you have completely no clue what he is up to? How long did it take you to decide that it wasn't worth waiting anymore?


I'd say about six to eight months. My thought processes are all on my original thread because I am a chatty one! At that point I was pressing ahead hard with the D I had originally only started for financial protection. I told my IM that I 'might' consider any overtures from him before the D, but once it was finalised I didn't want to know if he'd even been in touch.

He's on the other side of the world and I don't let people repeat gossip or updates so I don't know much, or think about it much which is lovely. There was a natural disaster there recently and my bf asked if I thought he'd been affected and I hadn't even considered him when listening to the news.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Sorry for going totally off topic on my thread.


This is your thread and anything and everything in your life now makes up your Plan B. I think on mine I used to witter on about gardening and hiking!
I recommend pages 80-90 of my thread. It's only 4 months in and you can already see progress.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2516378
Great thanks for that Indie. I will read. I always like to read others posts and gain as much knowledge as I can.

I think I've even surprised myself today by automatically thinking of ways to close these little Plan B gaps. I think if I had to give any advice to people struggling to get into Plan B I would say that the breaking off of the initial contact like changing your number etc is the HARDEST thing to do. But once you do it it's such a relief and the little bits that follow come so much easier.

Wow I think I'm making progress. Surprising myself every day in how strong I am becoming.

If I look back to a month ago I would go out of my way to find ways to see my H. But I've realised now that if I see him it hurts so much. I don't want to feel this pain anymore.

It hurts so much to see him knowing that he has made his choice and it's not me. I love him so much. I feel so used these past six months and even two years.

The whole time he was telling me he wasn't using me and that it was love that he kept seeing me. But at the end of each day he still went home to OW and that speaks volumes to me. I can't keep going on words and the loving look in his eyes. I have to look at actions. This is all up to him now. I've done all I can. I'm drained and exhausted.

My job now is to heal and get stronger for myself and my son.

If he wants to be with me and restore our marriage and give our DS a happy home, then he knows what he has to do. I don't need to look at what he is doing. He needs to act.

I hope one day he will see the light and come home. I believe deep down my loving husband is still there.



Originally Posted by rocksolid
I think I've even surprised myself today by automatically thinking of ways to close these little Plan B gaps. I think if I had to give any advice to people struggling to get into Plan B.


It's because you are serious this time. You've reached your pain limit and so have nothing to lose. When you bailed out last time, I was concerned but I just sort of thought "OK, Rock, have some more pain to drink and we will see how you feel in a bit." It's amazing how many people come back when Plan Fear doesn't pan out, so I try to have faith in people's ability to admit a mistake. There's always a chance they'll end up in the nut house instead though.


Originally Posted by rocksolid
It hurts so much to see him knowing that he has made his choice and it's not me.


I don't know that I would call rolling around drunkenly in a shacked up situation with a slattern a 'choice' as such. Not a considered one, anyway. Much as you I did with you, you just have to leave him to his pain and see what it motivates him to do.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I hope one day he will see the light and come home. I believe deep down my loving husband is still there.


That's entirely in his hands. Of course he is, if he has the motivation or get up and go to free himself. If he doesn't then it's a bit like 'if a tree falls in a deserted forest does it make a sound' - the answer is, no one cares. All sinners have an innocent core, a clean slate given them in babyhood from which bad branches grew.

I don't want to hear about the sinner, I want to hear about your Plan B because I just have this feeling it is going to be an epic one.

What colour are your toenails by the way?

Your posts are always so insightful Indie. Thank you.

You're right I am serious this time. It's coming up to 2 weeks of Plan B. Wow! That time has gone fast. I've cried a lot and thought a lot and read a lot and becoming stronger every day.

I do often wonder if he is feeling any pain about me not being around anymore. Wondering if he will be motivated to do anything or just continue on. I guess him probably buying a house with her shows me he has no intention of fighting for our marriage.

But you're right. I need to focus on myself and my Plan B.

I've started reading your thread from the beginning. I know you said around Page 40 was where I would see progress but I like to start from the beginning. Even reading the first pages when you were new and only just learning, and now hearing all your insightful wise advice shows me how much you have learnt along the way. Awesome! Even the way you talk now is so much different and so knowledgeable now.

I hope I can help people on here someday too. I do find myself learning new things every day.

I got a bit teary at the start when you were just finding out things. I do get quite emotional reading lots of peoples posts on here and feel their pain right along with them.

Thank goodness for this site where we can all help one another.

I do hope my Plan B will be epic! I remember you asking a while back what colour my toenails are....so embarrassed I can't remember the last time I painted them.

Hmm maybe that should be my 2 week reward. A new nail polish. I will report back when my toenails are painted!

Another good thing I am doing for myself is my daughter is giving me a new hair colour and cut next weekend. She is a hairdresser. I will be all new and fancy for my holiday! I need a confidence boost that's for sure!

Shiny new nails coming and new hair! And a new travelling outfit is in order me thinks!





Originally Posted by rocksolid
I hope I can help people on here someday too. I do find myself learning new things every day.


This place has changed my life. Never have I encountered so much wisdom in one place. My dad says I have got myself another degree.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
It's coming up to 2 weeks of Plan B. Wow! That time has gone fast.


It's my belief the first three weeks are the worst.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I got a bit teary at the start when you were just finding out things. I do get quite emotional reading lots of peoples posts on here and feel their pain right along with them.


Awww. You are a doll, rock.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hmm maybe that should be my 2 week reward. A new nail polish. I will report back when my toenails are painted!

Another good thing I am doing for myself is my daughter is giving me a new hair colour and cut next weekend. She is a hairdresser. I will be all new and fancy for my holiday! I need a confidence boost that's for sure!

Shiny new nails coming and new hair! And a new travelling outfit is in order me thinks!


Good plan.

Well done! Another difficult situation handled with instinctive grace. No need to be rude, but nothing more than the same politeness you would give a complete stranger.

While you're calmer, get a little emergency list ready to help you handle it emotionally the next time you bump into him. (And of course avoid that whenever possible!!) Just some handy little reminders, like listen to happy music, watch a funny movie, break out the emergency toenail polish, whatever it takes to quickly get your mind back in a good and safe track.

A total standing ovation for keeping up your Plan B!!!!!!! It will keep getting better and better. hug
Thanks Indie I never thought I could do this. You're right the first few weeks are definately the hardest. Hopefully this will get easier. I still cry a lot.

Thanks Neak for the standing ovation. It helps so much everyone here encouraging me. I would never be rude to my H because I love him so much and still believe in our love.

Only 35 days to my trip, getting excited!

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Neak for the standing ovation. It helps so much everyone here encouraging me. I would never be rude to my H because I love him so much and still believe in our love.

Only 35 days to my trip, getting excited!
Woo hoo!!! Good job!! Keep going!

Keep us updated on the color of your toenails!!
I will BrainHurts! I'm going to pick a nice nail colour this weekend with an awesome rocking name to match!

Will give a toe update soon laugh
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I will BrainHurts! I'm going to pick a nice nail colour this weekend with an awesome rocking name to match!

Will give a toe update soon laugh
Right on, my friend. Can't wait. smile
Today was so hard. I was at the store buying groceries and I saw one of WH's relatives. She looked straight at me and looked away again.

I'm so sad and tired of his whole family treating me like I'm nothing and worthless. They all hate me for walking out and what I did and they hate me for sleeping with my own husband behind OW's back.

They all love OW and I am just a useless piece of trash to them.

I'm so sad I can't stop crying.

Anytime my H could have stood up and defended me but he never did. He just stayed with OW and let me suffer the hurt and pain. He let everybody turn against me and did nothing. He proclaims to love me but anytime he could have stuck up for me.

The whole family snubs me if I ever see them out in public.

He has such a big family here and not one of them has been nice to me.

I feel snubbed and feel like I'm being pushed out the community that I called home.

I feel like I don't belong here anymore.

I feel like I just exist here and no one really cares. I've been excluded from this town.

If I'm walking down the street and I see one of them I am an invisible person.

I've changed and I'm not the same person anymore but nobody sees that or cares.

How can they all love OW??

I don't even know where my home is anymore.

I'm so angry at my H for not standing up for me and telling people he loved me. I'm angry he put OW first and continues to stay with her when he KNOWS FULL WELL that his wife is dying inside.

I wish I could turn back the clock and never had my A. That I had treated my husband with love and care and hadn't taken him for granted.

Now I'm paying for it and I feel like I'm being punished.

When I get back from my trip I am going to a lawyer and getting my financial settlement and getting the heck out of this community and finding a new place to live.

I'm living in a house that my H bought for me when I left, and I am paying him rent.

I can't do this anymore. It hurts too much and is so painful.

If he doesn't come back to me soon then he is going to lose me. I can't handle this cruel treatment anymore.

He just keeps me hanging like a doormat and I am worth so much more than this.

I don't think I can wait the 2 years. I've been hanging on for so long now and I don't think I can take any more abuse.

I love him so much but he's killing me.



Remember u have two precious kids and they do CARE abt u! They love u, and u need to be strong for them. You are doing the right thing to fight for ur marriage. those ppl can have their opinion and u don't live for them. U live for urself! Keep ur chin up! laugh
Thanks xpbrain for the support. I felt a bit better after I vented all that out. I just hate seeing anyone from his family and being made out to be the bad guy all the time. I just want someone to be on my side for a change you know?



That's very true xpbrain I don't live for them. I have to keep remembering that.
Screw em!

Where do you think they are headed with THAT moral compass?
To ToriSpellingVille...where a wistress can say things like this:

Quote
"I miss having my best friend," said a tearful Tori on her way to see Dean in rehab. "That was just stripped from me. I had it for seven years and it was just gone one day."

Totally missing the irony that this is exactly what she and her AP did to both their spouses 7 years ago. Seven years is a very long time in the world of A's, and even longer in Hollywood. I suspect that without the cameras, this would have imploded even sooner.

Sorry you felt badly about getting the cut direct. Don't let yourself dwell on it. It was just showing you that you need to move. And there is no need to even think about waiting 2 years to move. You can move while in PB, and under the circumstances I strongly encourage it.

And ending PB doesn't mean you must go back into C. If you have a time that you're ready to close the door to R, fine and dandy. But you can still stay NC for your own sanity - it's just to keep the drama out of your life at that point, not to preserve a $LB any longer. By that time, you would be making decisions based on what's best and most convenient for YOU.

In all your decisions from now on, even the one where WH comes crying and begging, make it with the best interests of you and the kids in mind. I hope that day is far enough in the future that you will be strong and glowing. No matter what you want to do, don't crumble!!! Because of the extreme cruelty you've endured, and the length of time you've endured it, you will need to set the bar even higher than you would've otherwise. And if he won't GLADLY jump, you walk away without looking back.

Most likely that will be a problem for another day, but I do want you to keep on building a mindset and habit of care and protection for yourself and the kids, so that you don't end up tempted to leave yourself defenseless again.

And start working toward moving. You need to be in a better place, and even if WH came back today, right this minute, you'd need to make moving an urgent priority. And all those silly IL's are just making it fast and easy for you to realize that you need them out of your life. Your new, A-free life doesn't just exclude WH's and OW's, but also AF's...Affair Friends. If someone is a friend of adultery, they are no friend of yours.

Have a fabulous day. Go paint some toenails. smile
I know Indie. I just can't believe that so many people just condone and enable this. A whole family of around 20-30 people!

So I think I need to just go shopping further away now so I am highly unlikely to run into anyone.

How's things with you?
Hi Neak

So I've had a think and I am still staying Plan B. I won't be going Plan C. Been there done that and it got me nowhere. So for the moment I am Plan B. This could change in the future to Plan D, but not yet. I have a date in mind that I at least want to do this. It is less than the 2 years. I will re-evaluate like Indie said at this date.

I did feel a bit better after that vent. I was 'Phew, I got that out'.

I do want to move. I can't keep living in this house. I need to get my settlement done so I can move so will deal with this when I return from my holiday. I can't wait to get away from all the drama and just concentrate on myself and my son.

If WH comes back the bar will definately be high. One which includes NC with OW, and following MB principles and posting with me here to make our marriage the best it has ever been.

And of course I will be transparent with my life and have no opposite sex friends.

And another thing will be him having to stick up for me to his family and defending me. I will be happy to patch things up with his family as long as he is willing to show them that I am his wife and that I come first to him.



Indie I'm up to Page 78 of your thread. You are one strong woman that's for sure!

Learning so much on here.
So after my meltdown today I started packing my son's and I suitcases for Canada. I got so much done and got me excited to go away. Took my mind off things which was good.

Big announcement what you've all been waiting for....I've chosen my new nail polish and buying tomorrow...researched online to find the perfect colour and name.

Colour: Bright pink.

And the name??? You're going to love this......

I'VE GOT THE POWER!!!

Rocksolid's going to be rocking!





p.s. Neak I used to like Tori back in 90210 days. But I don't like her so much anymore after what you wrote. I didn't know her and Dean were an affairage?

Is he an alcoholic or something?

All I heard recently is that they were swingers.
**edit**
I don't follow much of the HWood gossip. Since he was in rehab, obviously he has some kind of substance abuse problem. Swinging wouldn't surprise me, but I hadn't heard that before.

What I did know is they've been flaunting their adultery in front of the world for years, and now the world is watching an equally public breakup. Due to cheating.....go figure! I never woulda seen that one coming.

Your PINK sounds amazing. You do have the power!!!!!!

Just to clarify, I didn't think for a moment that you were going back into Plan C. You are Rocksolid Rockstar, not a waffle. grin
Thanks Neak. I appreciate you and everyone here steering me down the right path.

Annoys me when new people come and post mean spiteful comments but I will dust myself off from this and re group. I've owned everything I've done and will be a better person.

Thanks to my MB friends you all rock!
I didn't see the comment before it was deleted. I did notice that it was their first post. You so stirred someone that they signed up just to post to YOU!

There now, don't you feel better? grin
Apparently, Divinely Favored wasn't actually FAVORED by the divine. Or the mods. Might want to work on those personal assessment skills and self-image development.

tl
They basically said it serves me right that my WH had his affair and that OW is his saviour because I treated him so bad.

And that doing a 180 on him will just prove to him that I will walk out again.

Somebody has some learning to do.
Oh and that my WH doesn't have a voice anymore because I took it away from him when I had my own A.
Sorry rocksolid there are alot of people out there who condone infidelity.

Love the rockstar Pink nail polish!! laugh
I might have thought all those things once upon a time. Thankfully, I know better now.
Onto my 3rd week of Plan B now. Gosh this is so hard. Thoughts that are running through my head now is how he can just so easily let me struggle through this pain for so long.

I know 3 weeks isn't probably very long but it has felt like a lifetime of loneliness.

Probably because I'm so used to being in contact with him prior to this.

So sad today.

So onwards I plod and plan my holiday. Can't come soon enough :-)

You need nice things every day. The nail polish is a wonderful start.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I know Indie. I just can't believe that so many people just condone and enable this. A whole family of around 20-30 people!

So I think I need to just go shopping further away now so I am highly unlikely to run into anyone.

How's things with you?


So good! I'm on a hen party in Wales. We strolled up Mount Snowden today, it was so pretty and dramatic, I felt I was in Lord of the Rings. Then we put on posh frocks and pearls and went to dinner. The bride to be had a lovely time as did we hens. Still early but I'm in my hotel bed with tea and biscuits. My leg muscles are screaming a bit. I miss my bf a lot but we're spending the day together tomorrow so I can tell him all the weekends gossip.

Everyone is very excited about my new career. I still can't believe how much Plan B changed my life. I identified a hidden wayward today with my Plan B skills.

Frauds are easy to spot after you've gone through Plan B.

There you are, making gold out of hay and someone interrupts the thread of direction, pretending to be divinely inspired... But they are easy to spot.

Mom found some PEI pics for me. I'll have to scan them in and share. Hard to believe the kids were that little!

One foot in front of the other, and you'll make it. (Unless you're my mom, in which case you'll break your foot. Again. grin )
Indie the mountain sounds amazing. I love LOTR too!

How long have you been with BF? I'm not finished your thread yet..about half way there. I bet you set him a massive bar to reach! And so you should have too!

Wow do tell about the hidden wayward! How did you spot them? And did you do anything about it or felt it wasn't your place?



Can't wait to see the pics Neak! I know they will be amazing.

Thanks for the support. It means so much from people who've been there. I have read your story a long time ago will have to go back and read again. How long were you in Plan B for?

I definately won't be breaking my foot that's for sure!

Indie

I was just reading on your thread where people started commenting you were getting your spark back. That's what I want for myself too.

I act happy on the outside to everyone, but there's that inner sadness and I have no spark. I smile but it doesn't reach my eyes (except when I'm with my darling son).



Im sorry you took it that way. I was trying to explain HOW his FAMILY is possibly viewing the situation and why they are treating you the way they are. No I DO NOT CONDONE ADULTRY. I have a hard time having a relationship with my big sister after she had an affair on my BIL. Divorce should always be BEFORE starting a new relationship.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indie

I was just reading on your thread where people started commenting you were getting your spark back. That's what I want for myself too.

I act happy on the outside to everyone, but there's that inner sadness and I have no spark. I smile but it doesn't reach my eyes (except when I'm with my darling son).


I already see little sparks in you.
Thanks Indie.

So I have a Plan B question. There is a document that I MUST get H to sign before I go on my trip. It's a consent form that allows me to take our son abroad.

So I want to know which is the option I should take.

1. Get IM to post it in the mail to him and ask him to sign it and send it back.

2. When pick up next happens of my son, get my son to take it to him with a pen, ask him to sign it there and then and then bring it back to me.

3. Put form in my son's school bag at next pick up with a sticky note that says' Please sign and put back in bag'.

The problem with option 1 is my H may not sign it straight away and may not post it back straightaway. I need this form as soon as possible.

Option 3 probably not so good as me writing a sticky note is contact. And he may not sign straightaway either.

I've probably waited too long to get this form sign but I wasn't sure if I needed it or not. Seems I need it as a precaution and I don't want to NOT have it, just in case I do need it.

So is option 2 my best bet where son takes the form out to his car and gets a signature right there and then and brings it back to me. Is this breaking contact through my son?

I don't want to have to wait for the form.

Thoughts please?



Eeek this is a tough one. It took all Scottys strength to get a similar one done. 2 is probably most effective, but it sets a bad precedent of your son becoming a messenger and you don't want that happening the other way about.

I'd tell your son, he can ask dad to sign it if HE would like to, otherwise you'll get your messenger to ask dad.
Rock, I know what form you are talking about. I had my exH sign one for my daughter but my oldest son's dad wasnt in our lives so I couldn't get one from him. Anyway, the form was never asked for so it was a lot of stress for nothin. If he signs it, great, if not, don't worry bout it.

Thanks indie and rocket queen.

You're right indie I don't think it's fair my son to be a messenger.

So I've spoken to my IM.
She wants to send an email to my H asking him if he will meet her at my son's school to sign the form when he drops my son on his day. My IM has a child at the school too so she will be there anyway.

She wants to do it the right way and give him a chance to reply yes or no. She doesn't want to just confront him at the school with no warning.

I think this is a good idea. I'm sure my WH will not object.

I can't stop crying again today. I'm done with the hurt and cruel treatment. If he wanted me he would have left her. I know it's over. I can't deal with this anymore. Bet OW is feeling pretty good that she nabbed a married man. Having a bad day.
I guess I feel sad cause my IM sent the message to H and he replied straightaway and said it was fine to meet her and sign the form.

I should be happy but makes me sad he can reply to her but not make one scrappy effort to try and reach me. I know it's not Plan B thinking but still hurts that he hasn't even tried or given me a thought.
I can't deal with this anymore I am so hurt and angry that he just continues on like I'm nothing. Actions speak louder than words and his actions are crystal clear. What's the point. OW has won.
I miss him so much. I just want to talk to him. This sucks
Think I should just go straight for divorce. The pain and using I have endured for the last two years is just unbearable. I don't know how much hurt I can endure.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I can't stop crying again today. I'm done with the hurt and cruel treatment. If he wanted me he would have left her. I know it's over. I can't deal with this anymore. Bet OW is feeling pretty good that she nabbed a married man. Having a bad day.


Rock these are feelings, not logic. Logically you know you have more road to cover and that it will be hard from time to time. Rest, reboot, continue.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I guess I feel sad cause my IM sent the message to H and he replied straightaway and said it was fine to meet her and sign the form.

I should be happy but makes me sad he can reply to her but not make one scrappy effort to try and reach me. I know it's not Plan B thinking but still hurts that he hasn't even tried or given me a thought.


You don't have any idea about his thoughts. You don't have any idea what 'spam' messages your IM had to filter. You have no hook to hang these ruminations on, so quit it.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I miss him so much. I just want to talk to him. This sucks


I think you're at that three week low-point. I remember it well. Keep hold of your plan. You don't want to have to do withdrawal all over again!

Three weeks, Rock!! Are you proud of you? I am.
I bet that you are already headed to the upswing part of the rollercoaster after dipping so low. That's how it works.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
How long have you been with BF? I'm not finished your thread yet..about half way there. I bet you set him a massive bar to reach! And so you should have too!


Since January last year. He had a pretty high bar too smile

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Wow do tell about the hidden wayward! How did you spot them? And did you do anything about it or felt it wasn't your place?


I was having a conversation with two friends in a pub and they were discussing an affair that had happened in their workpalce a few years back. My friend said: "The most puzzling thing was what he could possibly have seen in her, she was awful" to which I replied, half-listening and almost automatically: "Oh people do tend to 'affair down'."

A woman sitting near us piped up in a hysterical tone: "What do you mean 'affair down' - what does that mean?" To me, her tone of voice, desperate and offended, was practically an announcement to the room that she was wayward. However no one else seemed to notice.

So I replied: "Oh it's a turn of phrase" and refused to fill the silence that followed. It's not my task to educate her.

So she responded: "Yes but meaning what?"

"Oh you know when you see a tabloid story about affairs, the affair partner is usually..."

"No I don't! I don't read tabloids!"

"Oh, OK."

"Do you mean that when people have an affair, their husband and wife is usually better than they are?"

"Yes that what it measn. Surprised you haven't heard it before."

Then I ignored her but her eyes were wild. I'd see her around the rest of the weekend and she would constantly be scanning my face as though I had a riddle on it. She didn't wear a ring so I would guess she is a mistress waiting on her fellow wayward's empty promises. Poor fool.



Okay I like that Indie. Feelings not logic.

So I'm grounded again. Gosh these feelings really do change from one minute to the next don't they. I felt okay-ish this week but then really down today.

So three weeks in is the worst? So it must be going to get better very soon I hope!

You know what when I was crying this afternoon I was so close to dialling his number and telling him I loved him. To get some reassurance.

So what stopped me?

1) I didn't want to undo all the hard work I had done and knew I would have to start all over. I couldn't do that as I had come so far.
2) I imagined my friends on MB being dissapointed in me.
3) I thought of Dr Harley and knew that he knew best and everyone on MB knows best.

So what did I do instead?

I pulled myself together and dialled a girlfriend and she cheered me up. I then went and tickled my DS and we laughed.

Onwards again.

I am proud of myself for not caving.






Originally Posted by rocksolid
Okay I like that Indie. Feelings not logic.

So I'm grounded again. Gosh these feelings really do change from one minute to the next don't they. I felt okay-ish this week but then really down today.

So three weeks in is the worst? So it must be going to get better very soon I hope!

You know what when I was crying this afternoon I was so close to dialling his number and telling him I loved him. To get some reassurance.

So what stopped me?

1) I didn't want to undo all the hard work I had done and knew I would have to start all over. I couldn't do that as I had come so far.
2) I imagined my friends on MB being dissapointed in me.
3) I thought of Dr Harley and knew that he knew best and everyone on MB knows best.

So what did I do instead?

I pulled myself together and dialled a girlfriend and she cheered me up. I then went and tickled my DS and we laughed.

Onwards again.

I am proud of myself for not caving.


hurray

If you can get through one of those real low roller moments, you can get through anything!
Indie I think you are spot on with the hidden wayward. Even I could probably see that and I'm no expert!

You know that saying 'Those who doth protest too much'. (or something like that).

Your BF is very lucky to have you. I bet he knows it too!

Let's hope my rollercoaster is coming up to the top soon smile I've sure had enough of being at the bottom.

Thanks Indie! Feels good to pick myself up again.
hurray Good for you, Rock!!!! You handled that like a pro.

Indie, how much you wanna bet that OW is still walking around, looking over her shoulder, muttering "Affair down?" over and over and over again. It's almost like that resonated or something. smile
Originally Posted by Neak
Indie, how much you wanna bet that OW is still walking around, looking over her shoulder, muttering "Affair down?" over and over and over again. It's almost like that resonated or something. smile


I've seen dead eyes in the face of a wayward spouse, now I've seen the crazy eyes of the OP (I confronted mine over the phone, never face to face).

I had a lot of pity for her strangely. Not enough to be nice though smile

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Okay I like that Indie. Feelings not logic.

So I'm grounded again. Gosh these feelings really do change from one minute to the next don't they. I felt okay-ish this week but then really down today.

So three weeks in is the worst? So it must be going to get better very soon I hope!

You know what when I was crying this afternoon I was so close to dialling his number and telling him I loved him. To get some reassurance.

So what stopped me?

1) I didn't want to undo all the hard work I had done and knew I would have to start all over. I couldn't do that as I had come so far.
2) I imagined my friends on MB being dissapointed in me.
3) I thought of Dr Harley and knew that he knew best and everyone on MB knows best.

So what did I do instead?

I pulled myself together and dialled a girlfriend and she cheered me up. I then went and tickled my DS and we laughed.

Onwards again.

I am proud of myself for not caving.
I'm so glad you didn't cave!!!

Good job. Now plan some self-care for you!!!
I'm glad I didn't cave too BrainHurts. It's so hard though.

The only self-care I've really been doing is getting earlier nights and resting. All this is wearing me down and I look forward to sleep.

I'm having angry days too where I'm so angry that he keeps staying with OW. Is this normal to get angry too? I suppose it is.

Everything you feel, good and bad, is normal. Keep working to ease your way through the bad feelings, though. Just because they're normal doesn't mean you want to stay in them.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm glad I didn't cave too BrainHurts. It's so hard though.

The only self-care I've really been doing is getting earlier nights and resting. All this is wearing me down and I look forward to sleep.

I'm having angry days too where I'm so angry that he keeps staying with OW. Is this normal to get angry too? I suppose it is.


Sleep is very good self care!

I went through the whole gambit of the different grief emotions. All the way to happy- as- a- clam
Yes sleep is definately a good start considering I haven't slept well in ages. I'm hoping to get to happy as a clam too!

I'm actually going digging for clams on PEI. Don't think the clams will be too happy about that laugh

Today is 3 weeks exactly of Plan B for me. That's a big milestone for me. I actually do see little signs where I'm getting stronger and feeling positive about the future. Baby steps.

Neak I sure don't want to stay in the bad feelings. I'm getting better at pulling myself together and thinking of positive things.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Yes sleep is definately a good start considering I haven't slept well in ages. I'm hoping to get to happy as a clam too!

I'm actually going digging for clams on PEI. Don't think the clams will be too happy about that laugh

Today is 3 weeks exactly of Plan B for me. That's a big milestone for me. I actually do see little signs where I'm getting stronger and feeling positive about the future. Baby steps.


lol

I love it when you see a Plan Ber start to get sparkly. It's like seeing a snowdrop come up in late winter.

You planted it, you knew it was due, but it is always a little miracle when it comes out to play.
Ha! Finally got a few photos uploaded. Copy and paste this, and hopefully it will work fine.

http://s34.photobucket.com/user/you_neak/library/Prince%20Edward%20Island?sort=3&page=1
Neak those photos are amazing!! Thanks so much for sharing. I can't wait to see inside the Anne House that's number one on my list. Is the LM grave site near the Anne House do you remember? And I can't wait to go down those trails smile

Indie I've decided that I am now wearing an invisible crown and nobody is going to dull my sparkle lashes
I don't remember how far apart they are, but the whole island is so small that everything's pretty close to everything.
Thanks Neak that is good to know. Maybe you can go back someday!
Wow just read my whole thread from the start. I've even surprised myself at how far I've come. What a mess I was back then!

Back then everything was so raw and even though the advice I was getting was spot on it was like I wasn't really 'there' if you know what I mean. I was so caught up in my pain that I wasn't really listening. In fear. And now I read back on what everyone was writing it just makes so much sense now and having lots of A-HA moments.

So now I'm onto Week 4 of Plan B. When I first started Plan B every day seemed to last forever and I would cry all day and night. Nearly 4 weeks now I feel empowered and know 100 percent I am doing the right thing.

At first I did think i was doing Plan B for my H to come back to me. Of course I still want him to come home to me. But now I realise more importantly as everyone has pointed out to me, is that it is for ME. For me to heal. For me to become a stronger better person. To become the best mother I can be for my DS.

When I first started Plan B four weeks ago I never thought I could do this. It was hard there's no doubt about it. I nearly caved and called him and I fought with myself about it so many times. But I didn't cave. I was strong. And you know what? It's second nature to me now. I don't fight with myself to call him. I know my plan and I stick to it. I know that I will not cave. I'm doing it and surviving!

It's getting easier each day. I can't believe how fast this time has gone. At the start the days would go so slow and drag on. But I'm keeping busy and enjoying my time with my son and planning my trip.

It feels good to have a plan.

Thank you everyone here for being so super duper awesome and believing in me.

I still love WH with all my heart and pray for a chance for our marriage to recover. But as Susie says ' I don't have a deathgrip anymore'!

I'm going to make my life the best I can be and I won't be treated like a doormat anymore. It's my time to shine!!

Thank you everybody here you have all been my saviour!

Indie you're definately right the first three weeks were the hardest. I can feel myself going higher up the rollercoaster now.

I will be realistic though and know this may change and I may go low again, but for the time being I'm enjoying feeling strong and empowered.



And that my friend, is what a MB success story sounds like. You may not recover your marriage, but you WILL RECOVER YOURSELF.

Good job.
Thank you BrainHurts. Your advice is always so helpful smile I feel good today.

That's great! Remember this feeling when you get discouraged. Your empowerment will stick around more and more and more. So proud of you!
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Wow just read my whole thread from the start. I've even surprised myself at how far I've come. What a mess I was back then!

Back then everything was so raw and even though the advice I was getting was spot on it was like I wasn't really 'there' if you know what I mean. I was so caught up in my pain that I wasn't really listening. In fear. And now I read back on what everyone was writing it just makes so much sense now and having lots of A-HA moments.

So now I'm onto Week 4 of Plan B. When I first started Plan B every day seemed to last forever and I would cry all day and night. Nearly 4 weeks now I feel empowered and know 100 percent I am doing the right thing.

At first I did think i was doing Plan B for my H to come back to me. Of course I still want him to come home to me. But now I realise more importantly as everyone has pointed out to me, is that it is for ME. For me to heal. For me to become a stronger better person. To become the best mother I can be for my DS.

When I first started Plan B four weeks ago I never thought I could do this. It was hard there's no doubt about it. I nearly caved and called him and I fought with myself about it so many times. But I didn't cave. I was strong. And you know what? It's second nature to me now. I don't fight with myself to call him. I know my plan and I stick to it. I know that I will not cave. I'm doing it and surviving!

It's getting easier each day. I can't believe how fast this time has gone. At the start the days would go so slow and drag on. But I'm keeping busy and enjoying my time with my son and planning my trip.

It feels good to have a plan.

Thank you everyone here for being so super duper awesome and believing in me.

I still love WH with all my heart and pray for a chance for our marriage to recover. But as Susie says ' I don't have a deathgrip anymore'!

I'm going to make my life the best I can be and I won't be treated like a doormat anymore. It's my time to shine!!

Thank you everybody here you have all been my saviour!

Indie you're definately right the first three weeks were the hardest. I can feel myself going higher up the rollercoaster now.

I will be realistic though and know this may change and I may go low again, but for the time being I'm enjoying feeling strong and empowered.

hurray

You've come so far, RS!

Just a quick reminder to stay strong. As someone who has BTDT, you can get sucked back into the wayward's drama easily if you let your guard down.

Hugs!

Oh yes. And I also wanted to say, it just keeps getting better.

In the early weeks and months of Plan B, there was instant relief, but at, say, 1.5+ yrs, I could give a crap what WS and OW4 were doing, so long as they left me alone.

Keep it up! smile
Thanks so much Neak and Susie. I do feel I have a come a long way. Thank goodness for everybody here or I'd still be in Plan C.

I will find it hard not to get sucked back into drama so I am going to be very mindful of that and try my best to stay strong and keep up the empowered feelings I've been having.

To do this I have to remain very dark and not let anybody tell me stuff about H and OW.

The only time I wish to hear about H is if he leaves OW and turns up on my doorstep with a promise of NC with OW and agreeing to my plan of recovery. I've endured so much pain these last two years he has been with her so it's all up to him now to prove himself by actions.

I guess time will tell if he is serious about recovering our marriage and family.

In the meantime I be the best ME I can be!

I will have to read your story Susie. You give so much great advice along with everyone here. I always learn so much from other's experiences. There's always something you can take away from it and learn by.

I do hope my empowerment stays. It kind of just crept up on me!





Originally Posted by rocksolid
I will have to read your story Susie. You give so much great advice along with everyone here. I always learn so much from other's experiences. There's always something you can take away from it and learn by.

I don't really have a thread, except for the original one back in 2007. After I discovered affair 3 in 2011, ex WH posted here and he does have a thread which is very good read, lots of good advice and maybe a cautionary tale of how there will just be a FR if a WS is not truly on board and willing to give up IB and SSL. I can give you the link if you would want to read it...
Sounds good Susie. Thanks in advance.
Superstar!

I'd say you're over that really want-to-die bad part so now you know you can face anything else that comes.

It's not over by a long chalk but it's never as bad as that again. There were still points for me when it had been months and months, I was very happy and I still got a destructive itch to Google him or something - which would have set me back.

I think though, when you've had a taste of Plan B power you realise you can do it - do anything.
Hi Indie

Yes thank goodness those first weeks are behind me. It was pure pain. It is getting easier but today I feel a bit down again.

Up and down up and down I go. I miss him.

When the sadness comes I am getting better at picking myself up again.

I finally finished reading your thread last night the whole 160 pages. What an inspiration you are and how far you've come!

Did you ever find out if softlad and OW broke up?





Hmmm not really as I never sought out info.

There are still people who try to tell me things, so I imagine if they had got together in any open way, I would have heard at least a rumbling about it.

As you know, they denied any romantic attachment to other quite vigorously post-exposure. My feeling is the friendship cover failed miserably, so he took a job overseas to show people he wasn't seeing her.

They probably did continue to communicate and perhaps they do to this day. It makes sense that they do (never faced up to reality) and it also makes sense that they don't (no future, and the past covered by shame).

Given that I don't allow any kind of IM message these days (he is not my business) it is even possible that he reached full repentance.

But I honestly don't care which version of sad/crazy it ended up at.



Originally Posted by rocksolid
Sounds good Susie. Thanks in advance.
Sure...
Here you go:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=163881&Number=2520079#Post2520079
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Hmmm not really as I never sought out info.

There are still people who try to tell me things, so I imagine if they had got together in any open way, I would have heard at least a rumbling about it.

As you know, they denied any romantic attachment to other quite vigorously post-exposure. My feeling is the friendship cover failed miserably, so he took a job overseas to show people he wasn't seeing her.

They probably did continue to communicate and perhaps they do to this day. It makes sense that they do (never faced up to reality) and it also makes sense that they don't (no future, and the past covered by shame).

Given that I don't allow any kind of IM message these days (he is not my business) it is even possible that he reached full repentance.

But I honestly don't care which version of sad/crazy it ended up at.


After I wrote that question to you I thought ' I bet Indie says she doesn't know because she never made it her business to know'. A true Plan B answer!

You're so strong it's amazing!
It really does take time. I have been there on the floor smile
Thanks Susie I will read.

After my recent feelings of empowerment I cried a lot this morning. Let it all out. Kept thinking of H and how much I miss him and love him.

Picked myself up again this afternoon. My DS is a godsend. Having him is my reason to keep going. I haven't cried in front of him anymore which is good. I am being strong for him.

Thanks everyone
Originally Posted by indiegirl
It really does take time. I have been there on the floor smile


Me too. I hate hearing of others that have been in the same pain. But helps me in a way to know I'm not alone. And shows me that I can get up and will one day be okay.

I still feel so terrible for the pain I caused my H in the first place. How I wish I can make up for that one day too.

I just read the thread Susie thanks for that. Yes so much good advice for a WS that was unfortunately ignored. I wish my H could read that advice too and have it somehow sink into him.

Hugs to you for all you've been through ((Susie))

The person you're becoming RIGHT NOW is making up for the awful person you used to be. WH will either take the opportunity or not, but YES you are making up for it already!
Originally Posted by Neak
The person you're becoming RIGHT NOW is making up for the awful person you used to be. WH will either take the opportunity or not, but YES you are making up for it already!

There's a quote that goes something like this. "If you continue to make the mistake you can never learn from it. " By ending your affair you stopped the mistake and now your learning from it. I think that is called wisdom.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I just read the thread Susie thanks for that. Yes so much good advice for a WS that was unfortunately ignored. I wish my H could read that advice too and have it somehow sink into him.

Hugs to you for all you've been through ((Susie))

Thanks smile

Despite that nightmare, I'm doing great and it's all thanks Plan B, RS! Stick with it and soon enough you will care less about WH and wonder how you dealt with a wayturd for so long! smile
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Susie I will read.

After my recent feelings of empowerment I cried a lot this morning. Let it all out. Kept thinking of H and how much I miss him and love him.

Picked myself up again this afternoon. My DS is a godsend. Having him is my reason to keep going. I haven't cried in front of him anymore which is good. I am being strong for him.

Thanks everyone


I'm glad you picked yourself up. This all looks on track to me. After the first high, you do get a dip - which we told you to expect. Also, after each dip you get a high. The roller coaster levels out over time and because you are learning how to level yourself out, I predict you will do great.

Originally Posted by Neak
The person you're becoming RIGHT NOW is making up for the awful person you used to be. WH will either take the opportunity or not, but YES you are making up for it already!



Thanks Neak. I know I am becoming a better person. I just wish I had a chance to prove it to H's family. Hopefully that day will come one day.

I am currently reading Blue Castle. I'm loving it so far how Valancy is not afraid anymore. Think she might be my new fictional hero. I am loving seeing her emerge into this strong new woman. I'm up to the part where she marries Barney. I have laughed quite a lot so far especially the things she blurts out at the family dinner!

Originally Posted by TranquilDark
Originally Posted by Neak
The person you're becoming RIGHT NOW is making up for the awful person you used to be. WH will either take the opportunity or not, but YES you are making up for it already!

There's a quote that goes something like this. "If you continue to make the mistake you can never learn from it. " By ending your affair you stopped the mistake and now your learning from it. I think that is called wisdom.



Thanks Tranquil. I have definately learned from my mistakes. I will never cause such hurt and destruction again. How's things going with you?

Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I just read the thread Susie thanks for that. Yes so much good advice for a WS that was unfortunately ignored. I wish my H could read that advice too and have it somehow sink into him.

Hugs to you for all you've been through ((Susie))

Thanks smile

Despite that nightmare, I'm doing great and it's all thanks Plan B, RS! Stick with it and soon enough you will care less about WH and wonder how you dealt with a wayturd for so long! smile


I'm so glad you're doing great now. Somedays I want to break Plan B but I'm not fighting with myself over it now. I have my moments where I want to call him but then I remember my Plan and know I am doing the right thing. If my H wants me then he will find a way. But I will not share him with OW.

I think my holiday is going to do wonders for my self esteem and help me to get away from all the drama.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Susie I will read.

After my recent feelings of empowerment I cried a lot this morning. Let it all out. Kept thinking of H and how much I miss him and love him.

Picked myself up again this afternoon. My DS is a godsend. Having him is my reason to keep going. I haven't cried in front of him anymore which is good. I am being strong for him.

Thanks everyone


I'm glad you picked yourself up. This all looks on track to me. After the first high, you do get a dip - which we told you to expect. Also, after each dip you get a high. The roller coaster levels out over time and because you are learning how to level yourself out, I predict you will do great.


Thanks Indie. I'm feeling okay. I am very proud of myself the way I pick myself up more and more now. I continually read and learn and listen to uplifting songs and spend my time productively.

After Blue Castle I'm onto Anne's house of dreams as I've read the first couple.

Can you believe it will be a month of Plan B this week. I never thought I could do this!

It's good knowing people are rooting for me smile
I want to write something one day. It's been a dream for as long as I can remember. I have a few ideas for a story, one is a story for the 10 - 12 age range. The other is a funny one for grown ups. I've written some ideas down but not really sure where to start. That will be a goal very soon is to start a writing course called Unlocking Creativity. Then after that I can do some more courses to try and get started. I think in 2015 this will be my next journey. Even if I fail at least I will have tried.

A quote from one on my favourite songs 'God knows I've failed, but he knows that I've tried'.



You'll find that, like the rest of us, Valancy isn't 100% perfect. But by the time her hard-won bravery slips a bit, she already has a new habit laid down, making it that much easier to get back on track.

The whole thing is such an adorable book. Can't wait till you get to the ending. smile
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I just read the thread Susie thanks for that. Yes so much good advice for a WS that was unfortunately ignored. I wish my H could read that advice too and have it somehow sink into him.

Hugs to you for all you've been through ((Susie))
That Susie is pretty awesome isn't she?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I just read the thread Susie thanks for that. Yes so much good advice for a WS that was unfortunately ignored. I wish my H could read that advice too and have it somehow sink into him.

Hugs to you for all you've been through ((Susie))
That Susie is pretty awesome isn't she?


Yes!
Originally Posted by Neak
You'll find that, like the rest of us, Valancy isn't 100% perfect. But by the time her hard-won bravery slips a bit, she already has a new habit laid down, making it that much easier to get back on track.

The whole thing is such an adorable book. Can't wait till you get to the ending. smile


I finished The Blue Castle. Loved it! You know I had an inkling that Barney deep down loved Valancy. And the biggest shock for me was that he was John Foster!

I loved seeing Valancy grow into a strong independent woman with her own thoughts and feelings and not doing what was expected of her anymore. I want my own Blue Castle. The view sounds amazing!



grin
So I did something today but not sure if it was a good move or not. When it was pick up time for my DS my H's daughter came to the door to get my son. My H was waiting in the car.

Background - my H's daughter and I had a difficult relationship when we were all living together. She is 15. I have known her since she was 4 and her real mother is not in the picture a lot and was doing drugs and left her kids with my H full time.

So his daughter is quite a handful and been in lots of trouble at school etc. A few months ago my H decided that because she was so out of control that she should go back and live with her real mother and let her see how good she really had it with him. So she has now been off living with her mother (still a druggie I think) for a couple of months. Her mother is a terrible mother and I still can't believe my H let her go.

Sidenote: OW doesn't like my H's daughter and has apparently told my H that it would be worth it for him to pay child support just to get her out of the house! ( I can't believe my H still stays with OW while she is pushing for his daughter to move out). Another proof what a control freak she is. Surely this can't last??

Anyway so his daughter comes to the door today. 6 months ago she hated me too when she found out me and H had been sleeping together behind OW's back. I would see her occasionally and she slowly became more polite but not really nice. She's the type to be nice to your face and bad mouth behind your back.

But I was genuinely happy to see her today. I asked her if she was back living with her dad and she said she No she was only back for the weekend. I was nice to her and asked lots of questions. I really just wanted to be nice you know?

I then told her I was really sorry for everything that had happenned. I told her I was sorry for the way I treated her and I hoped one day I could make it up to her. She smiled and said 'That's okay I didn't make it easy either'.

I was a bit emotional but I'm glad I said it.

I don't know if she was genuine accepting my apology or not. It's likely she may have gone back and said something nasty behind my back. This is just how she is sometimes.

Is it wrong I try and make amends to his family when I'm in Plan B if I get an opportunity? Maybe it will help them to see me in a better light down the track, them knowing I am repentant for everything that has happenned?

But then on the other hand it will probably get back to H, and in a roundabout way that means I am having contact with him and he knows what I'm doing?

I just saw a rare opportunity and I took it. And in the back of my mind I was hoping she might tell OW and send her into a jealous rage or something. Or would this work against me, because then OW knows I still want H and that will make her more determined to win against me??

Anyway it's done now. I really wanted to apologise to her and she and I didn't have a good relationship. I wanted to do the grown-up thing KWIM?

It's now been a month since I've spoken to my H. It hurts that he can even go this long without doing a thing. I know it's a long road. Just somedays are longer than others. I miss him so much.

Had a few down days again. This is so tough. Been wanting to call him again but haven't.

This was about that poor unwanted girl, not any of the side issues trying to crowd into your mind. Of course she's traumatized and acting out, with a druggie mother and a crackho-addicted father who is listening to the crackho about sending his OWN LITTLE GIRL back to a druggie.

So of course do whatever you can to make her life better. That's not about trying to get back in with WH's amoral family - you DO NOT want to do that! This is about ministering to a hurting girl, and letting her know that you care about her.

Who cares what WH finds out, or thinks, or anything else? This isn't about him.
And report the situation anonymously to CPS asap. There needs to be an official investigation to make sure your DSD is safe.
Thanks Neak. My H's mother has always blamed me for H's daughters problems saying I wasn't nice enough etc and I'm the reason she turned out like she did. I tried so hard with her for so long.

She always seemed to blame me but never blamed her real mother. I just want to make things up to her if I ever get a chance.
I think it was a set back, but a worthy one. Sometimes even indirect contact sends a Plan Ber into a tailspin - but it's worth it for something that has to be done like a lawyers meet or something.

I think you gave yourself a few bad days purely so you could give that poor forsaken kid a pick me up. I agree you should notify the authorities too. You're a kind person Rock.

Thanks Indie. My H's family sure don't think I'm a kind person though.

I had something nice happen to me yesterday. I made a mistake at work last week and I was positive I was going to lose my job. My boss was not happy. We had a meeting yesterday to catch up and I was preparing for the worst.

She handed me an envelope and said she had something for me. I opened it up and there was quite a lot of money in there. She said it was a bonus because I worked so hard and was loyal to her and she appreciated me. She said I want you to go and spend it on your holiday and have a great time.

I couldn't believe it, she has never given bonuses before. I said 'I thought you were going to fire me'!

It's nice to feel appreciated smile

Let me edit that for you, ever so slightly.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Indie. My H's family sure don't think I'm a kind person though.

I had something nice happen to me yesterday. I made a mistake at work last week and I was positive I was going to lose my job. My boss was not happy. We had a meeting yesterday to catch up and I was preparing for the worst.

She handed me an envelope and said she had something for me. I opened it up and there was quite a lot of money in there. She said it was a bonus because I worked so hard and was loyal to her and she appreciated me. She said I want you to go and spend it on your holiday and have a great time.

I couldn't believe it, she has never given bonuses before. I said 'I thought you were going to fire me'!

It's nice to feel appreciated smile
haha thanks for that Neak. I do need to remember that other people think I'm kind smile And not worry about people who don't.

Great post - no edits needed. grin
laugh
Is there any articles about the fog? I feel my WH is so entrenched in the fog and will never come out.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Is there any articles about the fog? I feel my WH is so entrenched in the fog and will never come out.

Don't bother to try and educate a wayward spouse. It won't work and it won't reach him, and it will make you feel even worse.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Is there any articles about the fog? I feel my WH is so entrenched in the fog and will never come out.

He's pretty typical and 95 pc of them end within two years. It's just addiction. Addiction means you won't give up something so you have to twist yout thoughts and morals to fit the addiction.

Its just rationalization and excuses

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.


However you need to get past the stage of thinking about him. You need to live your life for you and your son alone and make all your decisions as though he won't return. That way you will be in the strongest position possible when that two year mark comes.

You don't need to worry about the fog till it's time to come out of PB. Right now, all it is, is a distraction. Don't scratch the mosquito bite.
Thanks everyone. I think I should just divorce him. I know it's over and he's not coming back.
Filing for divorce isn't a magic bullet. It won't make you feel better overnight. You still have to do the work and put yourself back together.

If YOU want to divorce him, then do it. If you think recovery would be too arduous, or you don't want to wait in Plan B for an extended length of time, then you have every right to a D.

But don't do it because of what he is/ isn't thinking or will / won't do. You have absolutely no idea and cannot possibly guess at it.
I want to divorce him because I failed Plan B and he treated me in the most appalling fashion and I have now seen his addiction at it's ugliest. I never truly realised how foggy he was.

I can't deal with this pain anymore. I'm sorry I failed. I'm sorry for everyone who tried to help me. After 5 weeks of Plan B I made a stupid on the spur of the moment decision. I can't believe it myself.

He's in with her hook line and sinker and he has proved it beyond a doubt. So sad and devastated that I failed this and undone my hard work. Can't stop crying again and he doesn't really care after all. So much for believing all his promises.

I want to get back in Plan B but I really think he is lost forever.
I think after my major stuff up I have lost him for good and yes it is too late.
What did you do?
Breathe, reboot. Tell us so we can help.
It started two days ago when he decided to put financial papers into my son's school bag. I didn't know what they were so of course I looked at them.

Maybe this triggered me I don't know.

Last night I worked late and as I was driving home I had a feeling he might be working late by himself so I decided to drive past his work and see. He was there by himself and my head was telling me not to go in but my heart took over and in I went to see him.

After five weeks I thought he must be missing me like crazy and I expected a happy reaction from him but this did not happen.

He said he was happy to see me but he seemed very edgy.

I told him to be honest with me and asked him if he was still coming back to me by our anniversary in December like he promised. He said he can't make promises anymore.

He said he's sorry that I'm still hurting.

I asked if he loved her. He simply said to my face 'Yes I love her'

He said he loves me too and our love is special. But he feels responsible for her. I pointed to a picture of our son on his desk and said 'What about the love of your family'?

He then admitted to me that he was a coward and he was taking the easy way out. He said my whole family love her and they all get on so well.

He kept going on about himself saying 'My life is in turmoil. I don't know where I am going to be in 5 years'.

He visibly looked distraught and worn down and couldn't go on anymore. I've never seen him like this. Is this him hitting rock bottom?

To make things worse he then said ' I don't want to live a life of lies anymore. He said he is now living as an honest person and telling OW everything!!

I said you are not living a life as an honest person because you are having an affair. He said 'I know I know'.

He then tells me I shouldn't have come because that isn't what Plan B is about!! I said 'And having an affair is not what MB is about either'.

Then the final knife got twisted into my heart frown

OW called up on his phone while I was there and he said 'I have to talk to her I'm sorry.' He kept apologising. So in front of me he started talking to her in a loving voice. He told her 'She's here (meaning me). Yes she's been here half an hour. She's come to see if there is one final chance with me'.

It hurt so much the way he spoke to her in that voice. Only 2 months ago he spoke to me like that on the phone.

Then after he got off the phone he told me she was angry that I had come and that she would probably start pushing again for him to divorce me.

Then he started to try and shoo me out the door because she was probably on her way over.

I told him to kiss me and tell me if he could still feel the love. He kept saying 'I can't kiss you until I am a free man'.
And then he kissed me anyway and he said he could feel it.

He did have the love in his eyes for me still and I know he loves me.

But I just don't think it's enough for him. I said to him are you staying with her? And he said Yes for now.

And the only reason they would break up would be if she left him because he is a coward and won't do it himself.

He seemed like a very confused fogged out alien who was about to have a nervous break down.

He kept calling me babe and darling like he used to. It's like there is a big fight going on inside him.

She will continue to stay with him and I know she won't leave.

Oh and I said I thought you were miserable with her. And he said 'Why do you think I'm here at work on a Friday night at 6pm and not at home with her'? He always told me he worked late to as avoid going home to her.

He's giving me confusing signals all over the place. Being loving to her on the phone, but still working back late at night to avoid her.


All night I've been dreaming about him. I haven't dreamt about him for ages. All my dreams last night were scenarios where I was chasing him and he kept pushing me away frown

I'm off overseas in 12 days and after this I can't even get excited.

I'm so sorry.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I want to get back in Plan B but I really think he is lost forever.

banghead

Whether he is lost forever or not has absolutely NO BEARING on your Plan B whatsoever.

That is NOT the point of Plan B!!! I suspected and I told you as much earlier in the thread that you were using Plan B as a tool to win back your WH.

That is NOT the point of Plan B. This is:

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I can't deal with this pain anymore.


Are you ready to do Plan B for the right reasons this time??
Originally Posted by rocksolid
It started two days ago when he decided to put financial papers into my son's school bag. I didn't know what they were so of course I looked at them.

Maybe this triggered me I don't know.

Last night I worked late and as I was driving home I had a feeling he might be working late by himself so I decided to drive past his work and see. He was there by himself and my head was telling me not to go in but my heart took over and in I went to see him.

After five weeks I thought he must be missing me like crazy and I expected a happy reaction from him but this did not happen.

He said he was happy to see me but he seemed very edgy.

I told him to be honest with me and asked him if he was still coming back to me by our anniversary in December like he promised. He said he can't make promises anymore.

He said he's sorry that I'm still hurting.

I asked if he loved her. He simply said to my face 'Yes I love her'

He said he loves me too and our love is special. But he feels responsible for her. I pointed to a picture of our son on his desk and said 'What about the love of your family'?

He then admitted to me that he was a coward and he was taking the easy way out. He said my whole family love her and they all get on so well.

He kept going on about himself saying 'My life is in turmoil. I don't know where I am going to be in 5 years'.

He visibly looked distraught and worn down and couldn't go on anymore. I've never seen him like this. Is this him hitting rock bottom?

To make things worse he then said ' I don't want to live a life of lies anymore. He said he is now living as an honest person and telling OW everything!!

I said you are not living a life as an honest person because you are having an affair. He said 'I know I know'.

He then tells me I shouldn't have come because that isn't what Plan B is about!! I said 'And having an affair is not what MB is about either'.

Then the final knife got twisted into my heart frown

OW called up on his phone while I was there and he said 'I have to talk to her I'm sorry.' He kept apologising. So in front of me he started talking to her in a loving voice. He told her 'She's here (meaning me). Yes she's been here half an hour. She's come to see if there is one final chance with me'.

It hurt so much the way he spoke to her in that voice. Only 2 months ago he spoke to me like that on the phone.

Then after he got off the phone he told me she was angry that I had come and that she would probably start pushing again for him to divorce me.

Then he started to try and shoo me out the door because she was probably on her way over.

I told him to kiss me and tell me if he could still feel the love. He kept saying 'I can't kiss you until I am a free man'.
And then he kissed me anyway and he said he could feel it.

He did have the love in his eyes for me still and I know he loves me.

But I just don't think it's enough for him. I said to him are you staying with her? And he said Yes for now.

And the only reason they would break up would be if she left him because he is a coward and won't do it himself.

He seemed like a very confused fogged out alien who was about to have a nervous break down.

He kept calling me babe and darling like he used to. It's like there is a big fight going on inside him.

She will continue to stay with him and I know she won't leave.

Oh and I said I thought you were miserable with her. And he said 'Why do you think I'm here at work on a Friday night at 6pm and not at home with her'? He always told me he worked late to as avoid going home to her.

He's giving me confusing signals all over the place. Being loving to her on the phone, but still working back late at night to avoid her.


All night I've been dreaming about him. I haven't dreamt about him for ages. All my dreams last night were scenarios where I was chasing him and he kept pushing me away frown

I'm off overseas in 12 days and after this I can't even get excited.

I'm so sorry.

Is this what you want for your future? To keep getting sucked into this type of drama over and over for the next 1, 2, 5 years??

Or would you like to eventually be in a place where you really could care less what the wayturds are doing?

You need to decide.

You've let down yourself, not us. All you've discovered is that Plan B breaks simply are NOT worth it. If he hasn't gone to your IM completely hat in hand - that means something! It means the cookies are not done and you'll only be making a soggy mess by peeking.

Any wayward - 100 pc of them - given the chance to cake eat - WILL CAKE EAT. He got a kiss, a good ego boost, and even got the chance to reignite the drama with his OW.

So you're back to square one, but that's OK. 12 days is time to do some solid healing before your holiday. Then you can make up for this lapse by going dark for real, never breaking until your conditions are met.

Tell your IM if you haven't already.


Oh and the next time he puts stuff in your path that triggers you - TELL US.

Susie No I don't want this for my future at all.

I admit when I first started doing Plan B I wanted to win him back. And as the weeks passed I started seeing the benefits of getting myself better and healed and not dealing with the drama anymore.

And now I've relapsed into the mind frame of wanting him back.

'I'm so sorry' I guess that's an apology to yourself. You know in your head Plan B has been good for you. You know in your heart it has too. Go back on your own thread and look at the strength you found in yourself. It's still there.
Indie yes I have let myself down big time. I've let my son down by not being strong for him.

I told my IM about the papers in my son's bag and she was horrified that my son was used a messenger.

Do you still think WH and OW will split up or will this make her more determined than ever?

I have to pull myself up from this mess.
Originally Posted by Bluebeck
'I'm so sorry' I guess that's an apology to yourself. You know in your head Plan B has been good for you. You know in your heart it has too. Go back on your own thread and look at the strength you found in yourself. It's still there.


Yes I am very sorry that I did this to myself and undid everything.
I broke my own plan B and it set me back. I realised the only dramas were the ones I made myself. I haven't posted for a while as all the advice and inspiration came from reading other threads. Yours has been a good one and can continue to be. Your thread your life your choice. Make it a good one I look forward to hearing about your trip

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I have to pull myself up from this mess.

First step: Stop it with this:
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Do you still think WH and OW will split up or will this make her more determined than ever

We don't care about WH and OW, not one bit and we're not going to let you keep going on and on about their drama, so please stop.
Originally Posted by Bluebeck
'I'm so sorry' I guess that's an apology to yourself. You know in your head Plan B has been good for you. You know in your heart it has too. Go back on your own thread and look at the strength you found in yourself. It's still there.


Yes, it's there. You are strong, Rock when you let yourself be you.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Do you still think WH and OW will split up or will this make her more determined than ever?


On a few occasions, I've answered some questions about the wayward mindset because I thought you were interested academically and informing your choice. I'm done answering these questions and I think you should be done letting your mind dwell here. Waywardism is no longer your business. How long they they take hits from the crack pipe is not your concern. Live like he isn't coming back.

Stop fearing it. Fear has claimed you for a slave.

Fear is the mind killer. Fear is numb stupidity. Fear is the little death.

I'd like to see you live.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Susie No I don't want this for my future at all.

I admit when I first started doing Plan B I wanted to win him back. And as the weeks passed I started seeing the benefits of getting myself better and healed and not dealing with the drama anymore.

And now I've relapsed into the mind frame of wanting him back.

I don't think you answered my questions.
Are you ready to do Plan B for the right reasons this time? And do you understand that Plan B is not a tool to be used to get your WH to miss you and come back to the M?

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indie yes I have let myself down big time. I've let my son down by not being strong for him.

I told my IM about the papers in my son's bag and she was horrified that my son was used a messenger.

Do you still think WH and OW will split up or will this make her more determined than ever?

I have to pull myself up from this mess.


Did you tell your IM that you broke Plan B?

Originally Posted by rocksolid
It started two days ago when he decided to put financial papers into my son's school bag. I didn't know what they were so of course I looked at them.

Maybe this triggered me I don't know.

I would really like to know why you did not post about this Plan B breach two days ago.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indie yes I have let myself down big time. I've let my son down by not being strong for him.

I told my IM about the papers in my son's bag and she was horrified that my son was used a messenger.

Do you still think WH and OW will split up or will this make her more determined than ever?

I have to pull myself up from this mess.


Did you tell your IM that you broke Plan B?


No I haven't told her yet. I will see her Monday. She is going to be very angry at me.
Rock, you don't need your H to be happy. Life does not ebb and flow on his approval. We don't care what some crack house dosser thinks.

You're smart, tough, strong and caring. You have the ability to make life delightful. You're going to flipping Anne-land for cripes sake! Why would you risk your mood ahead of such a trip for a peek at wayward-pig-rut-ville?

As Susie said, if you'd mentioned this trigger we could have helped you manage and avoid it.

I think you know that you saw it as a gesture from him, and you nestled it to yourself like a little secret of hope that wouldn't hurt anyone. However it's burned you.

Stop working Plan Hope. You don't need hope of him for a happy life - you were already having one.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
It started two days ago when he decided to put financial papers into my son's school bag. I didn't know what they were so of course I looked at them.

Maybe this triggered me I don't know.

I would really like to know why you did not post about this Plan B breach two days ago.


I thought if I just ignored the papers and not signed them it would be okay.

I'm not signing the papers AT ALL. What he offered me was ridiculous. He's made them all up himself and printed them off the internet.

I need legal advice on them. Should I drag this out as long as possible? Or should I get legal advice when I return from my trip?

We still do not have a financial settlement and I am paying him rent to stay in this property.

It just doesn't seem fair.

He said the only reason he gave me financial papers was so that he could get some money to me for my trip before I left. But I don't need his money for my trip. I am paying it on my own!

Susie yes I do want to do things right this time.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indie yes I have let myself down big time. I've let my son down by not being strong for him.

I told my IM about the papers in my son's bag and she was horrified that my son was used a messenger.

Do you still think WH and OW will split up or will this make her more determined than ever?

I have to pull myself up from this mess.



Did you tell your IM that you broke Plan B?


No I haven't told her yet. I will see her Monday. She is going to be very angry at me.


Yes. She cares about you. She needs to know because while she was guarding the front door, you let him in the back. Tell her how you will avoid more breaches or it won't be worth her time.

My suggestion is managing triggers better. I used to use an elastic to 'snap' my thoughts, and if I got a bad trigger I'd stay with my parents so people were watching over me, making it hard for me to cheat, but you may have your own ideas.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
It started two days ago when he decided to put financial papers into my son's school bag. I didn't know what they were so of course I looked at them.

Maybe this triggered me I don't know.

I would really like to know why you did not post about this Plan B breach two days ago.


I thought if I just ignored the papers and not signed them it would be okay.

I'm not signing the papers AT ALL. What he offered me was ridiculous. He's made them all up himself and printed them off the internet.

I need legal advice on them. Should I drag this out as long as possible? Or should I get legal advice when I return from my trip?

We still do not have a financial settlement and I am paying him rent to stay in this property.

It just doesn't seem fair.

He said the only reason he gave me financial papers was so that he could get some money to me for my trip before I left. But I don't need his money for my trip. I am paying it on my own!

Susie yes I do want to do things right this time.


I would tell every Plan Ber to get legal advice. However don't do anything permanent, like file for a D until this episode has settled down. It's made you quite reactive and a divorce should be a decision, not a reaction.

I'll stop asking about the waywardism. You all have already answered me this before I know.

So this will be a lesson to me about what happens when I break Plan B.

I need to get even darker than ever now. I need to heal.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Rock, you don't need your H to be happy. Life does not ebb and flow on his approval. We don't care what some crack house dosser thinks.

You're smart, tough, strong and caring. You have the ability to make life delightful. You're going to flipping Anne-land for cripes sake! Why would you risk your mood ahead of such a trip for a peek at wayward-pig-rut-ville?

As Susie said, if you'd mentioned this trigger we could have helped you manage and avoid it.

I think you know that you saw it as a gesture from him, and you nestled it to yourself like a little secret of hope that wouldn't hurt anyone. However it's burned you.

Stop working Plan Hope. You don't need hope of him for a happy life - you were already having one.


You're right Indie of course. I am determined to enjoy Anne's land!

I'm not going to file for divorce but I will get legal advice when I return.

I really want to be able to move from this house. I don't want to continue living in this house and paying him rent.

I was feeling okay until I broke Plan B. I wasn't feeling totally happy but I was coping each day.

I just told my IM my break in Plan B. She told me to forgive myself and move forward. I'm sure though she will hash it out with me when she sees me next.

I don't have to do another Plan B letter do I? I hope not. I just have to go dark again right.
Look carefully at the steps that led you to this place, so you can reroute yourself the next time it DOES HAPPEN, and avoid this whole mess.

1. WH ambushes you with a break in NC, by sticking the papers in DS's bag and selfishly, callously USING him as his adultery errand boy. This triggers you to want to reach out to him.

Alternate ending: Instead of holding onto those thoughts, you come here on MB and post them. Vent, then move on and do something nice for yourself. The urges to contact WH are still there, but they're manageable and grow less with time.

AND

Now that you know he's low enough to pull a stunt like this (and got nicely rewarded for it to boot), you can 100% guarantee he's going to try it again. If something comes to you outside your IM, AND IT WILL, it doesn't exist!!! Shred it, unread, and post asap.

2. After the unexpected PB break, you start obsessing about WH. You start wondering what he's thinking, if he was trying to send you a secret message by breaking PB, and what OW is doing these days. The thoughts go round and round and round, fueling your urge to see what he's doing...just a little.

Alternate ending: You realize that the only message he's sending you isn't such a big secret, after all. He's only saying, "I still don't respect you. I spit on you and our family. I'm hoping that I can hock a loogie on you and still get a little action on the side. Because you just don't know any better." Except you DO know better. You recognize where these thoughts are headed, and carry out your plan that you already made ahead of time to deal with thoughts of WH. You sing a happy song, quote verses of Scripture, and any other great and distracting self-care items you have on your list. You also post asap, so we can help you through these very normal feelings.

3. You don't stop the thoughts, and finally decide to look in person and see what WH is doing. Is he working late? Maybe that means he and OW are unhappy. Is he already gone from work? Maybe they are having sex RIGHT NOW!!!!! And the only way to find out is by checking for yourself, right? Because you might learn something important!

Alternate ending: I highly recommend never getting to this point. It will be much easier if you head it off sooner than this. However, even at this moment it's not too late to salvage this. After making a quick post on MB, and while you're waiting for responses, you call your mom, IM, any emergency contact that can help talk you down from the ledge. Who will remind you that nothing you find out is worth the days of pain that will follow. And you don't go.

4. You make a deliberate choice to do the drive-by.

Alternate ending: You can still choose to drive on by, but really, what are the odds that you'll suddenly decide to value yourself more than he does after a whole string of unhealthy and destructive choices? Yeah, the odds are against you suddenly turning it around at this point, but it's a choice. It's always a choice. It's not your heart overpowering your head, it's not your feelings out of control. It's you. Choosing.

5. You walk into his workplace. Each choice led to this moment, and at each choice you chose the path most likely to arrive at this exact place.

Alternate ending: There really isn't an alternate ending at this point, at least not a good one. You could have chosen to either disappear from MB in shame, or come here and own up to your wrong choices. Thankfully, you chose the latter.

So you messed up. Learn from it. Make a plan for the next time. There will be a next time. And next time, I believe you will make the right choice.
No more letters. You'll show you mean business by your actions.
Thanks Neak for taking time to write all those steps down and the alternate things I should have done.

I needed that.

I nearly did disappear in shame again like last time. I wanted to hide but I just can't. I have to post everything.

I do hope I do make the right choice next time. I should have posted straightaway as soon as he put the papers in my DS's bag.

I should have got IM to email him and say Please do not use DS as a messenger and any information has to be passed through IM.

I did tell WH last night that I wasn't signing anything and he shouldn't have used DS as a messenger. He came back and said he didn't want to give papers to IM as it was personal.

So he should have used a lawyer.

Anyway it's done. I'm not signing and I will deal with it properly by a lawyer WHEN I AM READY.

So I've messed up. I've taken a setback. It's going to take longer to heal again. But I dust myself off and get back to business of healing myself and being strong for my son.

Back to day 1 of Plan B. I'm so determined to heal myself. I want to look back in a year and see how much better I feel. I can't keep living my life this way.



Up until this point I was always uncomfortable writing WH. I would just write H. Now I know he is definately WH.
I want to deliver a goodbye letter to my WH. I want to drop it at OW's feet. I want her to suffer. I'm sure she never got my Plan B letter. Can't I do this and cause one last rift between them before I go dark?

If you advise me not to then I won't do it. I feel there's nothing to lose anymore.



Don't do it.
You are just trying to stay in the drama your WH created.

He is wayward. He blew it with you and has to get his act together to get right with you.

Stay out of his mess.

Period.

Heal girl. Heal.
If you'd done it at the same time as your PBL, that would have been ok. Now it's not. Leave the compost pile alone. It'll turn to fertilizer all on its own, since it's one of the self-stirring kind.

Any time you try and stir it will only make the process take longer.

AJ is taking different counseling classes, and one of the ones he picked deals with pornography. (He's never had issues with it himself, but it's a fairly common problem so he wants to be well qualified to help others.)

Anyway, one of the basic principles is that it's much more important to understand the how of porn use rather than why. Because ultimately the why is interesting, but ultimately to effectively stop using it, you need to understand what string of choices leads to using it, and interrupt the process.

The same goes for other unhealthy behaviors, too, such as you've experienced. Why did you do it? Several reasons, but none are as important as stopping before you get in trouble. Change your thoughts before they translate into behavior.

You can still do this.
Thank goodness for all you good people on MB hanging in there with me.

Thanks for your advice Reading. I won't do the letter. I do want to heal and I am going to pick myself up again. I can do this.

I've done it before I can do it again.
I agree don't do the letter get back into a dark Plan B.

So what are you going to do the next time this happens to avoid breaking Plan B?
Hi Neak

So is AJ training to be a marriage counsellor? That's great news if so in bettering himself and helping others.

I refuse to let this mishap bring me down again. Last night I cried my heart out. Today I cried.

Then I took my DS to the movies and had a good time with him. He knows I'm sad and I've been honest with him and told him about Daddy doing the wrong thing about having a girlfriend. He is upset that his Daddy has hurt me.

But I told him I am going to be strong for him and we are going to have a great time in Canada.

I've told him how much I love him and that I am going to be a wonderful strong mother for him. I told him our house may not be big or fancy but the most important thing is that there is LOVE in our house. He feels safe and secure here and knows I am here for him.

I've told him that his daddy buying a big house with OW doesn't make people happy. I've told him money doesn't buy happiness. He knows that I have created a loving home for him and he understands this. We have fun together and we have each other. He's a very wise boy.

So I've talked myself out of the drama this afternoon. I have to do this. I have to forget about the WH and OW.

I'm going to go to Canada in 12 days and have a wonderful much needed break with my son. I refuse to let this get the better of me.

I am going to re-evaluate my situation in six months time and decide how I want to proceed. I will probably see a lawyer about a financial settlement come December.

I don't feel like I can make any rational decisions at this point so I will give it six months and then see how I feel.

Back to living my life. I will not live a life of misery.

I've been getting better at trying to take positives out of bad situations. I will try and find a positive from this such as I now know what a bad idea it is to break Plan B and it will only set me further back.

Hopefully any others here who are tempted to break Plan B can see the hurt it causes if you do. I can use this as a learning experience and grow stronger.

Neak I like the analogy of the compost pile.
Hi BrainHurts

So the next time I am tempted to break Plan B, I think about this time that I broke it and how awful it made me feel. I remember that I do not want to feel this way again.

I post here immediately so I can be talked out of it.

And hit me with twoxfour because I need them!

Another thing which might help is changing your route. The times I would get tempted to break Plan B I was usually on my way somewhere, but I'd get triggered by a place. I place where I knew he would be.

The temptation to break Plan B feels like ' I gotta do it now' so distance from places that could get you into trouble helps. If you make your routes so they miss out WH hot spots, you'll avoid breaks, and you'll avoid triggers too.

I used to walk past some favourite WH hangout when I went to my parents on a Sunday. At first I wondered why I should have to give up my walk, but there was another route just as good. My homeward journey from work took me past OWs house and the temptation to a drive by and see if he was visiting her was pretty strong. When I changed routes I never thought about it again.
You're right Indie. I was going to pick up my son's from his friends house and I took the route that was longest where I knew WH would probably be close by. I took this route as the other route I should have gone there was lots of traffic on the road.

I should have just stuck in the traffic and put up with it instead of taking the other way.

I kind of knew about five minutes before that I was going to do it. I will take different routes. Thanks Indie.

Come up with a few different routes to any destination you might need to go to. I have a 'back up' work route for situations where there is traffic or roadworks. Both routes keep me away from triggers. These routes work so well for me, that I have kept with them even though WH lives on another continent now. Partly out of habit, partly because I know I'm happier away from triggers.
AJ is doing a Christian counselor program, for general counseling not just marriage. It's a certification not a degree, but boy do they make you work for it!

And look at you, figuring out bright new ways to stay dark. smile Keep it up!
Originally Posted by Neak
AJ is doing a Christian counselor program, for general counseling not just marriage. It's a certification not a degree, but boy do they make you work for it!

And look at you, figuring out bright new ways to stay dark. smile Keep it up!

Interesting field Neak.

Does the MC portion adhere to the MB methods?

So as not to T/J this post, if you or AJ could start a topic about it, i feel it would be interesting and stimulating.

LTL
I just read your post about AJ's counselling program on your thread Neak. Great your whole family is learning from it even the kiddies!

Does he still make any posts here on MB?

Today I'm feeling quite down I think because I know it's pick up of my DS today and I'm feeling anxious.

So tempted to do the goodbye letter and mention things in it that were special to me and WH to infuriate OW.

Please talk me out of this. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. But I can't get it out of my head.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I just read your post about AJ's counselling program on your thread Neak. Great your whole family is learning from it even the kiddies!

Does he still make any posts here on MB?

Today I'm feeling quite down I think because I know it's pick up of my DS today and I'm feeling anxious.

So tempted to do the goodbye letter and mention things in it that were special to me and WH to infuriate OW.

Please talk me out of this. I'm not doing it. I'm not doing it. But I can't get it out of my head.


You won't feel calm until you're out of their radar circle of drama. Yes, it will infuriate her, but she thrives on competition with you, so infuriating her helps no one. Don't walk towards the drama, keep walking away to peace.

Just envision how peaceful you'll feel when there's been no drama for a week, then two weeks, then three. You've already experienced what that feels like.
Today is a self care day. What's in store for you self care wise?
I want to feel peace so much but I'm out of control today. I want to let go and tell him goodbye and leave him to his mess he has created.

So sad. I wish i had never gone to his work.
I feel if she sees I'm letting go than that would be a good thing so she sees she has no competition anymore.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I feel if she sees I'm letting go than that would be a good thing so she sees she has no competition anymore.


Why are you in her head?

Why is she in your head? Rent free!

She doesn't matter.
I don't know why I'm in her head. I just want to say goodbye to him and tell him things I will miss about our marriage and our love.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I want to feel peace so much but I'm out of control today. I want to let go and tell him goodbye and leave him to his mess he has created.

.


You HAVE done that. Ages ago. Constantly making contact and stirring stuff up is not saying goodbye, it is not closure and it is not bowing out. No contact means no contact!

Okay I won't do it. This is what happens when I pull myself back into the drama. I was doing so well prior to this.

Breathing.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I don't know why I'm in her head. I just want to say goodbye to him and tell him things I will miss about our marriage and our love.


Right. It's your own addiction talking. You don't want closure or to say goodbye at all. You want to say "hi, remember me?" again.

Whenever your strong feelings want something, like contact, it will make up a reason to get it. You know however that contact is only going to make things much worse.

Whereas you will feel great if you put some space between yourself and the last moment of contact. The last thing you need is more contact.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Okay I won't do it. This is what happens when I pull myself back into the drama. I was doing so well prior to this.

Breathing.


Nice food, funny movie, bath, pedicure?..
Are you going to send a letter every few days so she still knows you're letting go? Or would that maybe show that you're not letting go at all?

I'm just going to scratch this scab so it'll feel better. Scratch, scratch, scratch, scratch. Uh-oh. Now I'm a bleeding mess. Well, I'd better scratch some more, so my arm will know it's getting well.

Yep, that makes about as much sense as stirring up drama to show the other players that you're far above the drama now. How do you really show you're not part of the drama any more? Yep. Leave the theater and don't look back.

AJ hardly ever posts, but he does come on here sometimes and read. At some point this weekend he'll answer LRL's questions. I don't know the answers offhand. It's really neat to learn things as a family. smile
There's a reason I keep mentioning scratching. I gotten bitten up by mosquitoes, and it's about all I can think about. grin
I'm just about to take my son to his sport but I will be back on later to reply.

We are going to go out and buy some activities to keep him busy on the plane.

I won't do the letter. I can get through this. Will post more later. Thanks every one x

Be really nice to yourself today
You deserve it. hug
Okay Neak so I'm leaving the theatre and not looking back. I'll keep remembering that.

I wouldn't even be thinking of sending him a letter if I had stuck to my Plan B. I have to get back into my good state of mind.

I guess I just wanted to somehow remind him of all the good stuff he is missing out on, like DS's activities and achievements that he no longer comes to because OW doesn't let him. And good times in our lives that we shared.

But I guess I don't need to remind him of this. HE KNOWS.

My holiday can't come fast enough. I need to be away from all these thoughts.
I definately do deserve to be nice to myself I will agree with that.

Unfortunately I have to work this afternoon after my DS is picked up. But tonight I think I will have a bath and read Anne's House Of Dreams.

I've realised when I'm cooped up in the house all day that I get miserable and start thinking too much. I need to get out in the sunshine more and do some outdoorsy things. Will have to brainstorm some ideas like picnics with my DS.

PEI will get me in the outdoors that's for sure!

Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Okay I won't do it. This is what happens when I pull myself back into the drama. I was doing so well prior to this.

Breathing.


Nice food, funny movie, bath, pedicure?..



Definately a funny movie tonight I think along with a bath.
Originally Posted by Neak
There's a reason I keep mentioning scratching. I gotten bitten up by mosquitoes, and it's about all I can think about. grin


Oh no I hope the mosquito bites stop itching soon. They're the worst!
First the bites, and by now, the scabs. I'm not a good skeeter person.
I may even be on to my 3rd or 4th scabs in some places.
We aren't in mosquito season here but I read that I should take insect repellant to Canada. You reminded me of that.
I am going back on the AD'S. I think this is best with my state of mind at the moment.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I am going back on the AD'S. I think this is best with my state of mind at the moment.

That's probably a very good idea. The ADs are likely to be of great benefit in leveling out your emotions throughout the few months or so.
Thanks longwayfromhome. I think I probably came off them too early last time and didn't think I needed them anymore. Obviously I still need them.
I know just what you mean. I tried to be too much of a hero with ADs. I would have shaved off a lot of healing time if I'd been more structured with them.

One of the big sand traps in Plan B in my opinion is how good it makes you feel fairly soon and mistaking that for being healed. When you're at the top of the roller coaster you feel invincible so you try to get out!
Wow you're definately right on that Indie. I took them for a while and then felt good and thought 'Ha I don't need these anymore'!

I had some left so I took my first one this morning and went and got my last prescription filled this morning.

So I have 10 days to go till my trip. What are some ideas so I can get into a good frame of mind between now and then?

I do not want to be miserable on my trip and want to make it great for my son as well.

Tonight I have just been lying on the couch and really just resting and watching a funny show. My body is telling me that it really needs to rest.

I can't believe I'm back to square one with this. So I have to learn and push on.

I know I used Plan B as a way to draw my H back. But I know I really need to heal now and do this for myself.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I know I used Plan B as a way to draw my H back. But I know I really need to heal now and do this for myself.
That's a huge misunderstanding that BSs may have.

There isn't anywhere that Dr. Harley states that Plan B is to draw the WS back. Matter of fact, it's quite the opposite. Dr. Harley states that more than not that Plan B can lead to divorce. Plan B IS for the BS to get away from the abuse of the WS's affair and to heal.

Do you understand that now?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I know I used Plan B as a way to draw my H back. But I know I really need to heal now and do this for myself.
That's a huge misunderstanding that BSs may have.

There isn't anywhere that Dr. Harley states that Plan B is to draw the WS back. Matter of fact, it's quite the opposite. Dr. Harley states that more than not that Plan B can lead to divorce. Plan B IS for the BS to get away from the abuse of the WS's affair and to heal.

Do you understand that now?



Yes I definately do understand that now BrainHurts! I've learnt this the hard way that's for sure.
I'm finding it so hard to go back Plan B. When i first started Plan B 5 weeks ago it didn't seem this hard and I coped okay.

I now feel hopeless like I did 6 months ago when WH first shot me down in his office and chose OW.

Maybe because he has shot me down again. I'm low and crying again. Maybe because I know deep down it is really over and things will not change.

I've only been back on AD's for 2 days so not seeing any results yet.

I really need encouragament to keep strong. I hate feeling so alone and not even having anyone to give me a hug.

I want to drag myself out of this hole.

Why is this such a struggle for me all the time? I have to do this, I know I can because I did it before.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm finding it so hard to go back Plan B. When i first started Plan B 5 weeks ago it didn't seem this hard and I coped okay.

I now feel hopeless like I did 6 months ago when WH first shot me down in his office and chose OW.

Maybe because he has shot me down again. I'm low and crying again. Maybe because I know deep down it is really over and things will not change.

I've only been back on AD's for 2 days so not seeing any results yet.

I really need encouragament to keep strong. I hate feeling so alone and not even having anyone to give me a hug.

I want to drag myself out of this hole.
2 days isn't a very long time for the ADs to kick in.

We know it sucks, but remember how much better you felt when you were in a dark Plan B? Hold on to that and keep moving forward.

Your contact with him has you reeling and you're back to square one. Also since you've seen him your taker has shown it's ugly head and you're in taker mode.

What can you do right now to get out of this? Can you go on a walk? Take a bubble bath? Call a friend or a sister or mom?
Yes my taker is coming out. I'm trying to identify this trigger I'm having. I'm thinking my triggers are coming late afternoon when I know WH is at work in the afternoons when no one else is there. It's when he and I would mostly talk on the phone when everybody would go home.

So I keep thinking of that knowing what time it is and wanting to call him for a chat.

My son is with me so we are going to play a game.

Maybe I should find something to do at this time each afternoon so I'm not tempted.

This may sound a bit weird but anything that stops me calling him right?

Something Neak said about not stirring the compost pile.

I put a big disgusting picture of a stinking compost pile on my computer to remind me laugh
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Yes my taker is coming out. I'm trying to identify this trigger I'm having. I'm thinking my triggers are coming late afternoon when I know WH is at work in the afternoons when no one else is there. It's when he and I would mostly talk on the phone when everybody would go home.

So I keep thinking of that knowing what time it is and wanting to call him for a chat.

My son is with me so we are going to play a game.

Maybe I should find something to do at this time each afternoon so I'm not tempted.

Finding something to do during the trigger period in the afternoon is an excellent idea. Maybe you could consider a class: yoga, dance, computer. Or a daily walk with your friend or child. Get out of the house and get your mind off a call and your H by doing something very engaging.

Activity classes are perfect because you have to focus on the task at hand. I take a dance class twice a week and everything else has no choice but to fly out of my brain so I can concentrate on following the teacher and learning the moves and choreography.

Get out your calendar and schedule in something for every day this week, something you can look forward to and that will engage your mind in something else.
I lol'd. You won't need that picture there forever, but as long as its helpful, I say go for it.

You need to look primarily to God and to yourself to meet your needs right now. It's a difficult switch, but you can do it. (Hint: God helps out a whole bunch with this.) Just as couples have to be very deliberate about scheduling their UA time, you will have to be very deliberate about scheduling your "U" time.

Great job recognizing that you have an extra vulnerable spot in your day, and brainstorming to protect yourself during that time. I predict that if you're nice enough to yourself, it will quickly become your favorite part of the day. smile

Stay dark. These bad feelings won't last forever.
rubber band around your wrist. snap each time you think of calling/writing/pot-stirring.

soon you will associate pain with those thoughts.
You're having a bad stretch but your attitude is excellent. Backslides - and I had a few - do feel worse, just as false recoveries feel worse than the original Dday.

When I look back at the really, really tough parts of that uphill climb - the parts that were almost vertical, like what you are pushing thorough now - I feel so proud of myself. I did it.

I have done a few hill walks since then, Ben Nevis in Scotland and Mount Snowden in Wales and although a novice walker I told myself no one can get an uphill climb done like I can. Because nothing I ever do will ever be as tough as recovering from infidelity. Everything else is a cake walk. It is satisfying to get to the top of a hill and know that if you can do this, you can do anything.

I am at least 90 per cent more fearless and determined post Plan-B and I don't think I am unusual in that respect. It makes you tough.

And yet the only thing you need to do it, and do it right is determination.

By the way I've started to read the Blue Castle thanks to this thread and oh my goodness!

How did this book elude me for so long??!! It's perfect Plan B reading.

Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Yes my taker is coming out. I'm trying to identify this trigger I'm having. I'm thinking my triggers are coming late afternoon when I know WH is at work in the afternoons when no one else is there. It's when he and I would mostly talk on the phone when everybody would go home.

So I keep thinking of that knowing what time it is and wanting to call him for a chat.

My son is with me so we are going to play a game.

Maybe I should find something to do at this time each afternoon so I'm not tempted.

Finding something to do during the trigger period in the afternoon is an excellent idea. Maybe you could consider a class: yoga, dance, computer. Or a daily walk with your friend or child. Get out of the house and get your mind off a call and your H by doing something very engaging.

Activity classes are perfect because you have to focus on the task at hand. I take a dance class twice a week and everything else has no choice but to fly out of my brain so I can concentrate on following the teacher and learning the moves and choreography.

Get out your calendar and schedule in something for every day this week, something you can look forward to and that will engage your mind in something else.



Every afternoon at this time I have my DS so I can't do any classes. I might schedule this time as his bath time or playing a game with him time.

I do have a free pass to a boxing class that I might try. Box some anger out! I can do that in the night time when he goes to WH.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
By the way I've started to read the Blue Castle thanks to this thread and oh my goodness!

How did this book elude me for so long??!! It's perfect Plan B reading.



I know! I think I may have to read it again. It should be put onto the required reading if you are going into Plan B smile

Thanks to Neak for suggesting smile

Originally Posted by Lexxxy
rubber band around your wrist. snap each time you think of calling/writing/pot-stirring.

soon you will associate pain with those thoughts.



Good idea. I think I've snapped it about twenty times today already. It hurts!

Originally Posted by indiegirl
You're having a bad stretch but your attitude is excellent. Backslides - and I had a few - do feel worse, just as false recoveries feel worse than the original Dday.

When I look back at the really, really tough parts of that uphill climb - the parts that were almost vertical, like what you are pushing thorough now - I feel so proud of myself. I did it.

I have done a few hill walks since then, Ben Nevis in Scotland and Mount Snowden in Wales and although a novice walker I told myself no one can get an uphill climb done like I can. Because nothing I ever do will ever be as tough as recovering from infidelity. Everything else is a cake walk. It is satisfying to get to the top of a hill and know that if you can do this, you can do anything.

I am at least 90 per cent more fearless and determined post Plan-B and I don't think I am unusual in that respect. It makes you tough.

And yet the only thing you need to do it, and do it right is determination.



I don't even feel so determined anymore frown Maybe I need to walk some mountains too.

I don't even know how I even made it through 5 weeks of Plan B in the first place. I'm feeling really disheartened and want to call him. The thing that is stopping me is I'm honestly just all talked out. I'm sick of talking talking talking and it falling on deaf ears.

I'm sick of being hurt and listening to the excuses and false promises.

I know if I ring I will hear the same thing over and over. He'll tell me how much he loves me and he wants to spend his life with me but he just doesn't know how anymore.

I'm sick of hearing about how his family are a big influence on him.

I'm sick of hearing how special I am and how all our times in the last 6 months were special. If they were so special I would be with him and not OW.

I'm done hearing this. I don't want talk. I want action.

I don't want to feel the pain anymore. That's why I'm not calling.

So how long do the pi$$ed off feelings hang around for? I guess it's good I'm feeling like this. I've nearly had enough I tell you.
I felt when you called him WH you were having your Eureka moment. You've spent far too long thinking of yourself as the wayward. I know what a wayward sounds like and you are not one of them but he most certainly is. He will be while the A lasts, a stranger. I'd give him a nickname to distinguish the new alien from the old H.
What self care is going on today?
I suddenly realised he was WH when I saw him at his work last week. That's the first time I saw him at his foggiest. That's when I realised that wasn't my husband standing in front of me.

My self care at the moment has just been lots of rest. Last night I actually had a good night sleep. I was quite upset at work today so I kept just sitting down and having lots of rest and just breathing. Then I would get up and keep going again.

I've taken to carrying round Dobson's book in my bag cause it's handy and small. When I'm feeling down I'll take a quick look and read a passage to help me feel better again.

Hmm I'll have to think of a nickname not sure about that one yet!



Why don't you want to call him? Because if you do, these bad feelings will get worse, much worse, and last oodles longer.

And, although you and DS should be the only priority, the only consideration when making decisions, calling is bad for WH, too. Think of the A as a giant monster who is holding him prisoner. The only hope of WH ever going free is for the monster to starve to death.

Every time you pick up the phone or email, you toss the monster a big, fat, juicy steak. Every time you stop by in person, you give the monster the whole cow. WH and OW try to feed the monster, but as time goes on their loaves of bread dwindle to crumbs. 99% of the time, the monster will starve if it has no other food source.

Never feed the monster again.

Now your computer is going to have a picture of a compose heap, and something like this:

Rocksolid's New Sign
I don't want to call WH again because I end up hurt and back to square one. I want to feel better again.

That was great advice about the monster Neak. I didn't realise how bad it was for WH too.

I won't feed the monster anymore! Thanks so much for that it really helps. Off to change computer picture that was good smile

You WILL feel better again. smile

For fun and science enrichment, here is a little sermon synopsis that deals with the subject of habits. Gotta love those boutons! (Pronounced BOO-tawns.)

Quote
So how do our brains work? The entire brain operates on 10 watts of electricity. Each brain cell has many fibers called dendrites which receive all kinds of information constantly. One long fiber called the axon transmits messages between cells. 3T:369

The microscope shows us that on the end of the axon are tiny enlargements called boutons (French, for �buttons�). These boutons secrete chemicals (ACH and GABA) which stimulate the next cell to send a message down the nerve path to whatever muscle or organ is to be activated. But there is no direct connection between the axon and the next cell�s dendrites, only a tiny space, called the synapse. How does the message get across this synapse? Through the chemicals of the boutons.

Here is where it gets interesting. Some axons have more boutons than others. Why? Because that axon has been stimulated more than others. More stimulation, more boutons. With more boutons, the easier it is the next time for similar messages to flow along that particular pathway. Habits are forming!

How are boutons formed? Any thought or act forms a bouton. Thoughts and acts often repeated build more boutons on the end of that particular axon so that it becomes easier to repeat that same thought or act when the same situation is again faced. Just like cutting across the lawn eventually wears a worn path, so repeated thoughts actually produce physical and chemical changes in our nerve pathways. Thoughts don�t vanish into thin air, they are etched into a biochemical pattern that we call habits.

The good news and the bad news is that boutons never disappear. Right! Frightening, as well as assuring! For example, recovered alcoholics tell each other that they �are always� alcoholics. So they avoid friends who drink and places where alcohol is likely to be served Chocoholics and those involved in �fatal attractions� with the opposite sex, never lose those boutons that make it easier for them to �cave in� the next time temptation stares them in the face.[1]

But the good news is that the bad-habit boutons can be overpowered by good-habit boutons. Those who find it easy to be angry, to be lazy or self-centered, can believe that with the right set of the mind and the power of God, new habits of self-control, industriousness, and caring can be established firmly. Solomon is right: We are what we think.

Sounds too easy? Here is how we build more yes or no boutons, whichever is appropriate for the occasion. For example, when we are used to saying �Yes� to bad choices, we must build �No� boutons.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
[quote=indiegirl]By the way I've started to read the Blue Castle thanks to this thread and oh my goodness!

How did this book elude me for so long??!! It's perfect Plan B reading.
Who is the author? I would like to get it.
LM Montgomery. The author of Anne of Green Gables smile
Lucy Maude Montgomery (same author as Anne of Green Gables), and you can find it for 99 cents on Kindle. You can buy Kindle books even if you don't have a Kindle, and just read them on your computer.
Wow very insightful about the brain Neak. I had to read it a few times to really get the gist of it.

I think I must have a big whole heap of 'Yes' boutons! So I have to build 'No' boutons to override these I guess?

My axon has been so stimulated in contacting WH that I need to stop this and develop better habits.

I think I understand. I'm glad you posted this.
Neak's mom here. I wanted her to rewrite that for you (not that I'm complaining, dear--you know I never do THAT! flirt You didn't? You must not have been paying close enough attention. Or maybe it was TOO close. Whatever...I didn't feel like doing it myself. I broke my ankle and I can't type. I have excellent excuse boutons, apparently.)

When I was in college, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, I started out as a music major the first year, before switching to nursing. During that year, I practiced some pretty difficult stuff. Once I switched to nursing, became a nurse, married, and had children (and children), those complex musical efforts gradually slipped farther and farther back into my memory until they were hardly there at all. I think the kids were all teens or barely out of it when I happened to get curious about that music again. I was STUNNED, when I started to practice, how quickly I re-learned the songs. What had seemingly taken forever, back in my youth, returned with astonishing rapidity. And I had no idea why...

Until we heard about boutons, and I realized that those music boutons, the neural pathways that had been activated by all that practice before, had simply been lying (VERY) dormant in my brain until I started practicing the same pieces again, and they sproinged back to life.

Contacting your husband reactivated an established neural pathway. It didn't take a long time to do it, and it was easier because the pathway was already there; it didn't need to be FORMED--it just needed to be nudged and awakened. So your reaction was quick, and surprised you by its intensity. Boutons explain why; they also explain how to override them--by forming newer, stronger pathways. But the old ones never go away; which explains the physiology behind Dr. Harley's instruction that a person can never be around an old affair partner. Weird things, boutons, but they explain a lot.

tl

lashes Oh.
Originally Posted by Neak
lashes Oh.

I've always tended to be too subtle, too. Don't tell me--you've never noticed that, either! crazy

tl
Thanks Neak and Neaks mom! I'm very interested in this bouton thing. That makes so much sense now about why you can never be around an old affair partner ever again. It's disrespectful to your spouse and it is also too easy to go back down that path again because it's always there lying in the background ready to be re-ignited.

So are you still playing music Neaks mom?

I think you are both very wise ladies!!
It's funny you mention the music. I taught myself to play keyboard when I was about 8 years old. This one Christmas song I used to play still sticks in my mind all these years later. I can go a year or so without playing it, but when I do I still remember all the notes.
Everybody in the family is musical some way or another. Just for fun, I tried one of my old piano pieces,and was going to mess around with one of the organ pieces, and almost immediately broke an ankle and can't do anything with my feet (musically, at least), for several weeks yet. Mostly I played for church, which I enjoy, but it's a very different level.

Neak is the most musical, I think. She composes, sings, plays the piano, and then a bunch of different instruments (some better than others, obviously). I just did keyboard and sang. But music is a great escape valve for internal pressure. You don't have to be a professional to do THAT! laugh

tl
I hope your ankle heals quickly smile

Wow what a talented bunch we have here on MB!!


You should play the piano--an add to your repertoire! It's very cathartic. When my kid were young, I discovered a song that I decided I wanted to have played at my funeral. (I have not been obliging enough to die yet, however, so I used it first for my mother's service. It will still be available when I'm ready, I'm sure!) I have the lyrics printed and framed, and hanging on the wall right behind the desk where I'm sitting now. It's called "Be Still, My Soul", and the 4 stanzas of the poem are just as beautiful to me now as they were the first time I read them.

So, when I was sad I would sit down at the piano and play that song. Sure as you live, whenever I did, I would promptly have at least one child (and sometimes more) materialize and say, "Feeling depressed today, Mom?" MrRollieEyes So, if you decide to express yourself with music, don't tell your kids which songs mean what because explaining your poignant thoughts to juveniles spoils the mood!! Just sayin'...

tl
I've never heard Be Still, My Soul. Who sings that? Sounds lovely.

I have always wanted to learn piano. I could probably do with getting lost in some piano playing.

Haha I won't tell anyone what songs make me sad!

Be still, my soul; the Lord is on thy side;
Bear patiently the cross of grief or pain;
Leave to thy God to order and provide;
In every change He faithful will remain.
Be still, my soul; thy best, thy heavenly, Friend
Through thorny ways leads to a joyful end.

Be still, my soul; thy God doth undertake
To guide the future as He has the past.
Thy hope, thy confidence, let nothing shake;
All now mysterious shall be bright at last.
Be still, my soul; the waves and winds still know
His voice who ruled them while He dwelt below.

Be still, my soul, though dearest friends depart
And all is darkened in the vale of tears;
Then shalt thou better know His love, His heart,
Who comes to soothe thy sorrows and thy fears.
Be still, my soul; thy Jesus can repay
From His own fulness all He takes away.

Be still, my soul; the hour is hastening on
When we shall be forever with the Lord,
When disappointment, grief, and fear are gone,
Sorrow forgot, love's purest joys restored.
Be still, my soul; when change and tears are past,
All safe and blessed we shall meet at last.
Catharine Amalia Dorothea von Schlegel, 1752 Music by Jean Sibelius, mid-1880s from "Finlandia"

(1) Interesting that the poem is more more than 250 years old. Have people really changed that much? Essentially, I mean. (2) Hard to find a performance that does all 4 stanzas. (3) Not too many modern renditions of such an old song, but this one of David Archuleta (don't actually know who he is, but I've at least heard his name, and he isn't old) singing to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir was a nice one. (4) Tears and sniffling do not actually go all that well with hash browns and scrambled eggs.MrRollieEyes

It will never lose its power to move me. OK, not at my funeral, but up till then.............

David Archuleta Sings to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir

tl
What a lovely piece. Thank you for sharing. I felt very moved by that (and a tad sad).

I can see why you want such a moving song at your funeral. (hopefully a VERY long time away)!!!



So I have a question. When I broke my Plan B last week and saw WH he asked a request of me. I don't really think he should be asking ANY requests of me since he has not ended his A.

So anyway. He's always loved my perfume. He asked if at pick ups of my DS if I could wear it because then he would be able to smell it on DS when he got in the car and be reminded of me.

At the time I said yes, but I didn't wear it today when he picked DS up.

I feel this would be cake-eating on his behalf. What do you think? This would be him still getting his fix of me, and still being with OW.


If he wants to smell me he can leave OW and come home and smell me every night! I think it's totally unfair I give him his fix, when he won't leave OW.

It's like he wants a reminder of me so he can feel good. But I don't get to feel good because he won't leave her.

Him being able to smell my perfume on DS is not me being dark is it?

Do you agree?



It's not being dark if you know it's on purpose. I'm sure you can see the difference between blithely wearing your fave parfum, which unbeknownst to you WH can smell later, and making a transference on purpose. Sending a message - albeit an olfactory one - that you know WH will receive.

Either change your perfume or wear none at all. Switch Chanel #5 for Old Spice or Axe, lol. I AM JUST KIDDING.

How well you're doing to have picked up on the ramifications of this all by your little self!

Quote
If he wants to smell me he can leave OW and come home and smell me every night!

Priceless.
Hi Neak

Yes me wearing it would be on purpose so I'm not doing it. I think it would give him the fix that he is looking for and I don't want that. He has to miss me all on his own and want to come home.

And when he picks DS up in the morning it's early and I haven't even thought about putting on perfume yet!

I actually like the smell of Old Spice smile Reminds me of my late grandfather smile

I changed my perfume because a perfume my H had always liked was a trigger for me. The sense of smell is powerful at keeping memories alive.

Fresh start.
That's what my grandpa used to wear, too. Smelling it makes me happy. smile
Originally Posted by Neak
Lucy Maude Montgomery (same author as Anne of Green Gables), and you can find it for 99 cents on Kindle. You can buy Kindle books even if you don't have a Kindle, and just read them on your computer.
Thank you. I just ordered it in paperback form.
So it's 4 days to my holiday and I'm sick frown

I'm finding it hard to get excited because I feel so terrible. My DS has thankfully already been sick so he's all better now.

So I have 4 days to dose myself up on vitamins and get better!!

I think also combined with me feeling very down and depressed about WH is not helping. I've been getting lots of sleep and resting.

I think I'm coming to that stage of acceptance that WH isn't likely to be coming back and it sucks big time. I don't know. My feelings are all over the place right now. I think I am at my lowest right now. Wondering when all the hurt will go away.

Plan B'ers please don't break your Plan B. It is too painful and is a major setback when you've been doing so well.

I'm coming up to week 1 of New Plan B.

Books! They are nurses when you are ill.

I think you need laughter, so try some bill Bryson.
Who is Bill Bryson?
Iowan born journalist and travel writer lived in UK most of his adult life. The subjects he writes about, you expect them to be really dry but he has you howling with laughter
Or some funny poetry. Here's one of my personal favorites.

Baxter Black: The Uterine Prolapse
Be encouraged that reading your experience will deter one or more Plan B'ers from making C. And it will encourage someone who messed up to pick themselves back up and keep going. You may never know it, since some of the people who benefit most from this site only lurk, but it will happen.
Do NOT take humor books to the hospital to read while you're recovering from an abdominal hysterectomy. Why do I say that? I don't know--just a random thought, I guess.

tl
Do NOT take walks to other parts of the hospital the day after your abdominal hysterectomy. When you faint, the nurses in the other ward will have no idea who you are or where you belong. Just another random thought, I guess.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Iowan born journalist and travel writer lived in UK most of his adult life. The subjects he writes about, you expect them to be really dry but he has you howling with laughter



Great I will look him up thanks Indie smile

Originally Posted by Neak
Be encouraged that reading your experience will deter one or more Plan B'ers from making C. And it will encourage someone who messed up to pick themselves back up and keep going. You may never know it, since some of the people who benefit most from this site only lurk, but it will happen.



Yes I hope so Neak. I have learned so much from just reading other threads too.
Originally Posted by thndrnltng
Do NOT take humor books to the hospital to read while you're recovering from an abdominal hysterectomy. Why do I say that? I don't know--just a random thought, I guess.

tl


Originally Posted by Neak
Do NOT take walks to other parts of the hospital the day after your abdominal hysterectomy. When you faint, the nurses in the other ward will have no idea who you are or where you belong. Just another random thought, I guess.



Looks like I'm getting my daily humour already rotflmao
Originally Posted by Neak
Or some funny poetry. Here's one of my personal favorites.

Baxter Black: The Uterine Prolapse



So funny!!
She had her hyster at the same hospital where I'd worked for decades as an L&D nurse. I was her nurse for all 4 deliveries, including the baby that died. My kids had been to the department numerous times over the years. They knew many of the nurses well. The nurse who got to her first had even read both of Neak's books and had been the nursery nurse for her last live birth; she knew her well. And she still didn't recognize that pasty-white, unconscious body lying peacefully in front of the elevators.

At least she knew not to get humor books to read...and her daughter will know not to do either, when her time comes. naughty Wisdom--a generational accumulation!

tl
She KNEW me??? faint
In theory, of course she knew you, just like you knew her. In practice, you were unrecognizable. I would have recognized you. I'm pretty sure of that.

tl
Originally Posted by thndrnltng
In theory, of course she knew you, just like you knew her. In practice, you were unrecognizable. I would have recognized you. I'm pretty sure of that.

tl


I'm sure you would have too! I wonder if the nurse thought later 'ah I thought I knew her from somewhere'...

Yeah, the Pillsbury Doughboy commercial.
Hi everyone

I am finally off to Prince Edward Island tomorrow! Yippee. I can't wait to make some awesome memories with my DS.

I really need this holiday after all the hurt I have experienced lately.

I may not be online for a few weeks but I will update all about my holiday when I return!

Thanks everyone here for your support smile

See you when I get back!
Have a wonderful and amazing time!!!
Have a wonderful time.
I'm back from Canada. My DS and I had such a great time and I didn't want to come home! Loved the scenery and all the Anne sites.

Upon returning home I felt relaxed and better to cope with things.

My DD came to visit me today and blurted out that my WH has definately bought a house with OW and they are moving into it in 10 weeks. I am gutted. I don't know how to cope with this. The one thing that I knew would lessen our chances of reconciliation is now real and happening.

I hate my WH so much and love him at the same time. He knew that this would devestate me and has gone and done it anyway.

I can't stop crying. My DS doesn't even know yet because we have been away.

I just want to move on and I don't know how.

I guess OW is pretty happy with herself that she has nabbed him and got the closest thing to commitment she is going to get from him.

I feel this is the final straw and all chances of us reconciling are now gone. OW will never be leaving now.

To find out on the day I get back from my holiday is devastating. I don't know what to do anymore.

I just always thought he'd come back but after this I know it won't be happenning.

Looks like my WH is going to be in the 5 percent that last.

So sad and lost.
Sorry that this information has caused you pain.

You need to tell your DD18 that's it's too painful to hear anything about your WH and to ask her please to not tell you.

Dark plan B means, sometimes you have to tell others not to tell you things.

Will you do this?
I will do this.

I feel so consumed by this information though and feel I have lost all chances now. I'm starting to hate him for all he has done to me.

Rock he is neither here nor there. It's impossible to avoid pain upon experiencing direct news but this is hardly a game changer. You knew he wasn't off helping orphans or creating homes for the homeless. You knew he was doing whatever he could to keep his affair/addiction going.

Since you do know this; remind me, did you get legal advice about how to protect your finances? He is a married man and he doesn't have any money of his own. It's marital funds he is using to buy a home with.
By the by I think your trip has done you a lot of good. This was your worst fear yet you sound really strong. Sounds awesome as well! Call your lawyer then give us DETAILS.
Hi Indie

My IM has been telling me to speak to my lawyer too. When my WH left financial papers in my son's school bag weeks ago he had written an amount on them that he wanted to give me for our financial settlement. He wants to do it all privately and not have lawyers involved and doesn't want to pay lawyers fees.

I disagree with this. I want to take the papers to a lawyer for advice on what to do.

I need to think what is best for my DS now.

Though if I go to a lawyer and ask for more money, WH will get nasty and will likely divorce me immediately. And probably marry OW no doubt.

I felt that was the only thing I had in my favour was that he hadn't divorced me.

Maybe I should just divorce him. I can definately feel the love depleting from my LB.

I'm trying to think of a positive to take out of this information of him buying a house with OW. The only positive I can think is that it makes me more determined not to contact him. I'm so hurt and angry and I don't want to speak to him.

I'm sick of his lies and promises. He even told me that OW was not his forever woman and hoped me and him would end up back together some day. I'm sick of being a doormat. The way he has treated me has been so cruel and the hurt I feel is unbearable.

Trying to Plan Nice him into not divorcing you is absurd as he is shacked up with another woman.

Stay on plan. An integral part of the plan is to protect the money. You want a solvent recovery. Whether personal or marital. Do whatever it takes. A lot of Plan Bers had to divorce to protect the money. It doesn't mean you can't remarry upon the end of the A. That happens a lot.
You're right Indie of course. I do want some sort of recovery that's for sure. At the moment I just want to feel better for ME. I hate feeling like this and I want to heal.

I guess I'm now learning the real concept of Plan B. At first it was all about getting WH back. Now it's all about getting MYSELF back.

I really don't see his A ending anymore though. OW is obsessed and she won't be leaving. And WH is not a strong enough person anymore to leave her. And his parents are way too involved in his life for this to ever end. I see this. I've pretty much given up hope now for this A to end.

It kills me but I somehow have to accept this.

Thank goodness for my wonderful son who shows me all the love in the world. I'm so thankful for him.



You WILL recover yourself. You've recovered so much of yourself already, and will only get better and stronger.

Stay strong, and stay out of the way. The A has its best chance of collapsing with you far out of the picture. In the meantime, consider yourself to be protecting family assets from a crack fiend. You're not being mean, you're protecting what rightfully belongs to the family - to your son.

You'll be able to move mountains for your DS that would have scared you to death to move only for you.
Hi Neak

I don't feel strong after this. I can't cope with the info that he has bought a house with her.

Should I just divorce and move on? I can't deal with this anymore.

The pain is so great I don't know what to do anymore. I can't see forward anymore. His life is all mapped out and I have no idea where my life is going.

I've put up with so much pain and hurt and I can't cope anymore. I'm on the AD's but what's the point anymore.

Please help me pick myself up. I feel the worst I have ever felt. I know in my heart it is over. He's not coming back now. I tried so hard and fought so hard.

Indie I know you think I sound strong but I'm really not cry

It just seems like he is always twisting the knife into my heart. There's always something to make me sad. When will this hurt ever stop. Why does he keep doing this to me?

I deserve to be happy.

That last sentence is why you are stronger. You never used to say that.

The pain you feel is not weakness, it is pain. Strength is what you decide to do with the pain.

Strength is continuing to conquer the mountain when your legs ache.

Go see a lawyer. Tell him you will divorce when it is in YOUR best interests to do so: either a) to protect funds or b) when you are emotionally ready. You won't divorce as a reaction to his nonsense.

Then put in place blocks so you don't hear more news. Treat yourself well, continue healing.

Lots of hugs today my lovely. I had days like this too.

It's so hard to conquer that mountain. I don't even know how to get through each day.

It hurts so much he is off living his life and not caring how I feel and how alone I am.

I want to know where my life is heading and I have no clue. Everywhere I go are happy couples in love and I wish for that and it gets me down.

Life is so short and I don't understand how he can go off and live his life with someone else when I know deep down he loves me. What if something terrible happens one day and we never get a chance?

My mind is all over the place. I keep wanting to contact him and tell him how hurt I am. Why can't I stop this way of thinking?

I'm so emotional and I'm still jet lagged and my sleep is all over the place. Every day is so painful and I feel I can't function.

Even basic things like unpacking my suitcase and tidying the house is a massive effort and I can't bring myself to do it.

It feels so much like last year when I confronted OW and he chose her over me.

I want to get past this I'm sick of feeling like this.

You need to keep finding distractions that focus on you and making you feel good!
Originally Posted by rocksolid
It's so hard to conquer that mountain. I don't even know how to get through each day.


Oh that's too big a bite. Do the next half hour. Then the next.

I will admit that I spent a leeetle too much money during this stage on pretty shoes. I still think that was OK.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I want to know where my life is heading and I have no clue. Everywhere I go are happy couples in love and I wish for that and it gets me down.


Oh chicken I remember this so well! I went away for some Plan B respite too and there were couples all over the place. They actually waited for me to show up before they draped themselves all over each other. They really did!

I survived it, you will too...


You're jet lagged so if you need to stay awake I think you need laughter. Either get a funny friend over there stat or put something really silly on the telly or read a funny book.

Plan B teaches you to get small with your goals and concentrate on the little, vastly important things like pretty shoes and laughter. You don't NEED to know where you're going to be in two years exactly to the day.

What it teaches you is to get back in touch with the reality of the day. That your old assumptions when you believed your life was concrete and mapped out were totally wrong - nobody knows the future. It's not just you.

At first you feel aimless but eventually a bigger picture starts to form. Trust me honey, I've transformed my whole life and found a new career doing this. Goals that were not even on my list when I started Plan B.
I wish there were a "Like" button for some of these posts/comments. Such uplifting and concrete ideas to offer hope, support and direction. RockSolid, it looks like you are being offered much care and concern from fellow posters. A Blessing. Having been there and done that, they have seen the other side and they know you can do this.
WallFlower yes I am definately being offered lots of great advice and care from everyone. I don't know how I would cope without it. It amazes me and humbles me that people on here who have saved their marriages and living happy lives that they still frequent here to help others.

Originally Posted by Bluebeck
You need to keep finding distractions that focus on you and making you feel good!


Yep I know. Gosh this is hard but I have to do this. I can only rely on myself now.
And God. smile
RockSolid:

We know you can do this. It is the toughest thing you will ever have to do - EVER - but you can do it. We have seen the strength in you, and we know what it takes to get through it.

indie is right, don't focus on the long term. Or even the mid-term. Go thirty minutes. Then another. And another. That is how you climb the mountain, one step at a time.
Hi Indie

I always read your advice so carefully because I know how far you have come. And everybody else's for that matter too!

So I've listened carefully about setting small goals and just concentrating on the next half hour and taking baby steps.

It's 6am and I've been awake for 2 hours. I think still due to jet lag. I need to concentrate on my life and my beautiful son now.

So I forced myself to get up and tidy the kitchen and put a few things away in the house. Then I decided to hang up an Anne of Green Gables embroidered wall hanging on the wall that I bought on my holiday. I've put on a funny comedy to watch in the background. Thought about what I will cook my DS for dinner tomorrow night - a roast chicken with potatoes and vegetables since we haven't had a good home cooked meal since we've been on holidays.

Baby steps but I feel a bit better doing them.

So looking forward...I've written a list of other things I want to do. Not very big things but I need things to focus on:

* My DS is turning 8 in 2 weeks. I am going to give him a wonderful birthday. I am going to make him a special Spongebob birthday cake. He loves Spongebob. I am going to decorate the house with balloons and maybe some Spongebob decorations. I will look on ebay. Invite my DD over to celebrate with us. Plan some nice presents for my DS.

* My mum is turning 60 in September. Maybe plan a little party for her.

* Organise appointment with lawyer and organise financial settlement. When I get money I am going to put it in the bank and leave it there and save for a deposit on a house. I need to get out of here. Not ready to divorce yet so will just do the financial side first.

* Print photos from holiday and put some in frames on the wall. Put a nice one up of my DS catching fish on our holiday in his bedroom.

* Do a tapestry of Anne of Green Gables that I bought on holiday.

* Look into doing a couple of courses that may take me down a new career path.

I think these goals are do-able and not too hard and will give me something to aim for.

I have to live my life now on my own and live for my DS and make it the best I can be. I want to be a completely different person and come out the other side.







Originally Posted by Neak
And God. smile


Yes that too!
Originally Posted by catwhit
RockSolid:

We know you can do this. It is the toughest thing you will ever have to do - EVER - but you can do it. We have seen the strength in you, and we know what it takes to get through it.

indie is right, don't focus on the long term. Or even the mid-term. Go thirty minutes. Then another. And another. That is how you climb the mountain, one step at a time.



Thanks catwhit. Yep it's hard and you are right. One step at a time is my best bet I think. Staying dark is paramount for me now.
That's a great list, RockSolid.

How about some self-care, too?
Bubble bath?
Pedicure?
Brisk walk around the block?
Online yoga program for 20 minutes?
Bring in some flowers from the garden?
Put on some lipstick?
Massage your legs with a great=smelling lotion?

Your turn....
Hi Catwhit

The bubble bath is a good idea. I've never had a pedicure so that might be an option. The exercise is good but I think I will work up to that. I've never tried yoga before but have always been interested.

At the moment I just feel like hiding from the world know what I mean? I might start with the lipstick smile
:-) Lipstick is good! Kudos on the list!!
Hello Rock,
Take solace knowing that this will pass. The pain is so very hard, but you have your integrity, your soul, and your family. In the end, all will serve you well.

This grief is real, but it will not stay with you because have been true to your pseudonym: a solid rock. Your actions right now are directing you along the right path, while your husband is heading for destruction.

You might use your suffering for the good of others through service, kindness, and compassion. There is a part of suffering that instructs us and builds our soul. Though we don't relish it, we learn from it.

God bless you.

Thanks Justthe3ofus. I am sure this will pass but I just can't see it at the moment.

I have often thought about doing things to help others. I will have to think on that some more.

It's funny how everyone can see that my WH is heading for destruction, but I don't seem to see it myself. I guess it's a case of others being on the outside and can see things more clearly than me?

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Indie

I always read your advice so carefully because I know how far you have come. And everybody else's for that matter too!

So I've listened carefully about setting small goals and just concentrating on the next half hour and taking baby steps.

It's 6am and I've been awake for 2 hours. I think still due to jet lag. I need to concentrate on my life and my beautiful son now.

So I forced myself to get up and tidy the kitchen and put a few things away in the house. Then I decided to hang up an Anne of Green Gables embroidered wall hanging on the wall that I bought on my holiday. I've put on a funny comedy to watch in the background. Thought about what I will cook my DS for dinner tomorrow night - a roast chicken with potatoes and vegetables since we haven't had a good home cooked meal since we've been on holidays.

Baby steps but I feel a bit better doing them.

So looking forward...I've written a list of other things I want to do. Not very big things but I need things to focus on:

* My DS is turning 8 in 2 weeks. I am going to give him a wonderful birthday. I am going to make him a special Spongebob birthday cake. He loves Spongebob. I am going to decorate the house with balloons and maybe some Spongebob decorations. I will look on ebay. Invite my DD over to celebrate with us. Plan some nice presents for my DS.

* My mum is turning 60 in September. Maybe plan a little party for her.

* Organise appointment with lawyer and organise financial settlement. When I get money I am going to put it in the bank and leave it there and save for a deposit on a house. I need to get out of here. Not ready to divorce yet so will just do the financial side first.

* Print photos from holiday and put some in frames on the wall. Put a nice one up of my DS catching fish on our holiday in his bedroom.

* Do a tapestry of Anne of Green Gables that I bought on holiday.

* Look into doing a couple of courses that may take me down a new career path.

I think these goals are do-able and not too hard and will give me something to aim for.

I have to live my life now on my own and live for my DS and make it the best I can be. I want to be a completely different person and come out the other side.


Wow! You make my 'buy shoes' Plan B look bad girl. This sounds amazing. Just be sure not to ask too much of yourself. Always take breaks and go slow when going through periods of crisis.

I'm really, really, proud of you.

If you're interested, Yoga is very Plan B I think. It's all about stopping and focusing on the fact that you are warm, you are dry, that you have a body that works - and how wonderful those things are when they are truly appreciated. That your happiness and ability to relax are internal. Even stretching is a mini blessing, easy to appreciate when your mind is calm. There's no competition, you are just checking out what your body can do and how you can progress its abilities a little bit every day. I like to start the day with a salute to the sun move, a nice wakey-up stretch that is very easy to do and only takes five minutes. There's nothing like a proper class with a trained teacher though, especially for a beginner - find one with a guided meditation or relaxation. I don't like these new ones which are all 'power yoga' or 'hot yoga' because they miss the point. If you wanted to shed half a stone overnight or get your heart racing you would be doing another type of exercise entirely.

I know my Plan B looks good but in reality I'm just not coping. I'm back to square one. I feel so much pain and don't know how to go on.

Just knowing he has bought a house with her feels like it IS a game changer. There is no way she is ever going to give that up now.

I feel so alone and helpless. His life has moved forward and I am stuck in this horrible place that I can't pull myself out of.

I want to move forward and I can't. All I do is cry. The news of him buying the house is something that I would never have been able to avoid as eventually I would have found out that my DS was moving there.

How do I get over him? Everything seems so helpless right now.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Justthe3ofus. I am sure this will pass but I just can't see it at the moment.

I have often thought about doing things to help others. I will have to think on that some more.

It's funny how everyone can see that my WH is heading for destruction, but I don't seem to see it myself. I guess it's a case of others being on the outside and can see things more clearly than me?

His choice to abandon his wife and family are destructive in that he has murdered the most important relationships that he has. Marriage is the ultimate test and he has failed it. That non-passing grade doesn't go away. It carries on to his next relationship.

Your pain over him buying a new house with his affair partner is a bitter pill, and we understand your grief. Many of us have been there before. But there is nothing you can do about his choices.

You certainly need to protect yourself by seeing a lawyer if you haven't already.

In the meantime do the things that will help you keep your mind of your fogged out husband. By going into a solid Plan B you are minimizing the poisons of his bad choices. You are strong. Keep the faith, and find purpose in your life outside of him. The vacation you took was great. Find more things to do as a healthy outlet. I mentioned service to others, and I would also encourage an exercise program: yoga as Indie suggested, running, etc. The endorphins from exorcise provide a natural high. They will lift your spirits.

Good luck and God bless.
I just can't focus on anything to do anything right now. I'm not strong at all.

In 10 weeks time when he moves into the new house it will be crashing around me again. I can't go on anymore.

The pain is too great I can't see forward.

I want to ring OW and tell her the damage she has caused to a marriage and family. Not that she would care.

I hate my life.

I bet you can look up! Sometimes forward is just today or tomorrow. Up is? You tell me?
Phoning OW never going to happen, you would of done so already and felt so mad at yourself for being so daft! Yet by not doing so you already show strength, you just fail to see it.
You don't hate your life, or are you suddenly 13 again? You're frustrated about the things you can't control. Trust me. I won't say I've been there, I am there!
So what do you do? Anything! Everything, whatever you want to do. I don't need to suggest you focus on yourself or find a new hobby, just go howl at the moon and if it howls back laugh.
Don't miss everything else around YOU looking elsewhere
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I know my Plan B looks good but in reality I'm just not coping. I'm back to square one. I feel so much pain and don't know how to go on.


Yeah you are back to square one. It really sucks and it hurts like hell. Every trigger restarts the clock. Especially a big one like this so soon near the start. It does suck that you have to re-climb the same piece of mountain again - but you can do it. You already have done this once.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Just knowing he has bought a house with her feels like it IS a game changer. There is no way she is ever going to give that up now.


Your plan was NEVER based on what SHE was going to do!!!

That's like handing your life to a serial killer.

As for the house move - I always thought that was going to happen - almost all affair partners shack up together and a good many go as far as to marry. That's textbook.

Do you know what happens to shack-up relationships and affair-marriages where the participants have a death grip? Dr H says they are uniformly "brief, abusive and violent".

Aside from which Plan B is not about sitting around hoping they self combust. Your plan is to assume you will divorce, leave him in the bed of his own making and focus on yourself. It's survivial.


Your pain is talking, not your logic.


Originally Posted by rocksolid
In 10 weeks time when he moves into the new house it will be crashing around me again. I can't go on anymore.


Ten weeks is TOO far ahead. Your mood is going to change multiple times between now and then. focus on today. What can you do for yourself today?

Indie the only thing I can do for myself today is get through today.

I know I've done it before but I keep failing.

I can't stop crying and I know it's over and I just can't seem to do this anymore. I feel helpless.

She's been living in our house for 2 years now but somehow them moving and buying a new house together seems to hurt so much more. I guess it's because they have this 'commitment' together now.

I guess it's because something is tying them together now.

I can't even focus on anything. Going to work is a struggle and find myself breaking down all the time.

I can't see any light at the end of the long tunnel.

Even when my DS cuddles me I am silently crying into his arms that I couldn't save our family.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{rocksolid}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

we WILL go through this! Be strong for your son!
Thanks xpbrain1 I really need a hug right now.

My DS cuddles me all the time but it's just not the same when I want WH to hold me.

I know Dr Harley states that after 2 years of NC a divorce will hurt less. Well I'm pretty sure the divorce will be coming very soon if OW has anything to do with it. I am in no means able to deal with a divorce right now. The pain I feel right now is unbearable and to be hit with a divorce on top of it all would just be too much for me.

WH knows a divorce will kill me but yet he will still do it I fear.

I just want a good day of no crying.

Hang in there!
I have been divorced for 2 years and I promise it does get better IF you follow Plan B!
Thanks Jedi

I'm constantly amazed at the strength of people on here.

Would you ever consider dating again? I don't think I could ever be with anyone else besides my H. I think if I divorce I will just live my life for my son. He doesn't need any more confusion in his life.

I keep wanting to remind my WH of things we've done in the past and special memories we have together. How do I stop wanting to do this?

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Jedi

I'm constantly amazed at the strength of people on here.

Would you ever consider dating again? I don't think I could ever be with anyone else besides my H. I think if I divorce I will just live my life for my son. He doesn't need any more confusion in his life.

Yes.
I am willing to date now....after 2 years since divorce.
When I first got divorced I thought I was ready but I really wasn't
I raise my 3 kids and thats enough for me at this point in life.
You need to focus on One Day At A Time
Yep one day at a time is all I can manage. Even that is a milestone for me.



Originally Posted by rocksolid
I keep wanting to remind my WH of things we've done in the past and special memories we have together. How do I stop wanting to do this?

It would not be productive.
At this point he is in the fog. The same fog you were in before.
He will not think rationally until his affair dies a natural death.
During this period the best way to preserve your emotional health is in Plan B.

After his affair dies, you may have opportunity to recover your marriage.
Thanks Jedi. I will try and get past this new information and stay positive.

My DS birthday is coming up in a couple of weeks and want to make it fun for him.

I do remember when I was in the fog when I was in my own A. I am so glad I am not there anymore. I have learned so much and will never do that to anyone ever again.

Oh yeah the crying, gosh. I don't know how you go through something this painful without crying. For ages I was leaving piles of soggy tissues everywhere. For a while I WAS a pile of soggy tissues. Even my angelic mother got a bit fed up and wondered 'will this ever end?' But it does. Life is irrepressible.


Originally Posted by rocksolid
Would you ever consider dating again? I don't think I could ever be with anyone else besides my H.


Keep your head in today! Of course you don't fancy a run, you have a broken leg.

Yeah the crying bit is so hard. I don't wanna cry anymore but it isn't stopping.

Today I'm slowly tidying up some bits of the house and hiding away from the world. I'm at a point that I don't really want to socialise with anybody.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Yeah the crying bit is so hard. I don't wanna cry anymore but it isn't stopping.

Today I'm slowly tidying up some bits of the house and hiding away from the world. I'm at a point that I don't really want to socialise with anybody.

I encourage you to focus on being productive.
Do you exercise?


No I don't exercise. I can't get motivated.
Check out this video:

Usually I see the ladies on MB tell other ladies in Plan B to get their nails painted, manicured etc.
I dont know anything about that, but since there arent any MB women posting at this moment I will share what saved me:

Exercise: Push yourself, as Arthur did in this video. Transform yourself. Doctors are amazed at how exercise literally kills depression.

Prayer: Get right with God. Attend church, read the Bible and pray.

Diet: eat healthy, no processed foods. Healthy foods. If you need help just google it and you can learn how to cook any type of meal.

Sleep: Get sleep. Your brain releases chemicals while you sleep that are essential to life.

It is important that you LIVE.
Wow thanks for sharing the video Jedi. That was very inspirational. The song did make me cry though!

The list you gave me was great. The only one on there that I don't have a problem with is sleep. I seem to do that a lot. Maybe too much though.

The diet is a big problem for me. I'm not overweight or anything but finding it very hard to get motivated just to eat a decent meal.

How long after you started exercising did you start to feel a bit better?



I'm also finding myself pushing people away in real life who want to talk and help me. A lot of people don't know what I'm going through and it just hurts to much to speak about it.


A big problem I have is my mother. I haven't told her the latest episode because she is way too opinionated and gives advice which is not helpful. She continually hounds me and texts me with irrelevant happenings and says stupid things.

She thinks we are really close and best friends and tell each other everything but unfortunately I don't feel the same. People might think I'm bad for not feeling that about my mother but I just don't feel close to her.

I think it stems from the fact that she walked out on my Dad when I was 13 and had an affair. My mum and Dad got back together for a few years but she had another affair and now she is married to the OM (he was married at the time too). She is in an affairage. They have been married for 12 years now.

I hate the fact that their affairage has 'lasted' as I believed that affairages never work out? In saying this though, she doesn't trust him one bit, she thinks he is out having affairs, she thinks he has some 'hidden love child' somewhere and they bicker constantly. So they may be together I guess but they are not happy.

I'm so dissapointed in myself that I had an A to start with. I don't want to turn into the person my mother is. I want to rewrite history and not be that person anymore.

Dont talk to your mom. She will offer no support.

As for myself, when I discovered the affair my dad made me promise him that I would continue to exercise, no matter what. He told me it will keep me from depression.

Plan B will help you feel better. It is important to remove emotional triggers from your home. Box up all pics of husband, gifts etc.

Edit: as for yourself, you are no longer in an affair. You choose how to live your life. You can choose a good life or follow your mother in a bad life. But every day is a new day.
Thats why I feel church and the Bible are so important ; to keep us focused on choosing to live a good life.
I don't find myself looking at my H's photos or videos of our wedding day. I find if I look at them it hurts way too much that we are not together.

I have an emotional trigger that I look at every day and that is my DS. He looks more and more like his Dad every day. But I'm not boxing him up because I love him so much and am so grateful for him!



My friend once asked me to go to church. I might see if she still wants to go.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
My friend once asked me to go to church. I might see if she still wants to go.

Dr Harley is a major proponent of attending church.
In a recent interview on Leadership, he stressed that his Christian faith plays a major role in his life.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm also finding myself pushing people away in real life who want to talk and help me. A lot of people don't know what I'm going through and it just hurts to much to speak about it.


A big problem I have is my mother. I haven't told her the latest episode because she is way too opinionated and gives advice which is not helpful. She continually hounds me and texts me with irrelevant happenings and says stupid things.

She thinks we are really close and best friends and tell each other everything but unfortunately I don't feel the same. People might think I'm bad for not feeling that about my mother but I just don't feel close to her.

I think it stems from the fact that she walked out on my Dad when I was 13 and had an affair. My mum and Dad got back together for a few years but she had another affair and now she is married to the OM (he was married at the time too). She is in an affairage. They have been married for 12 years now.

I hate the fact that their affairage has 'lasted' as I believed that affairages never work out? In saying this though, she doesn't trust him one bit, she thinks he is out having affairs, she thinks he has some 'hidden love child' somewhere and they bicker constantly. So they may be together I guess but they are not happy.

I'm so dissapointed in myself that I had an A to start with. I don't want to turn into the person my mother is. I want to rewrite history and not be that person anymore.


Oh babe. You poor thing. A wayward mother makes everything so much harder. I have a few friends who have them and quite honestly I'd cut them loose. Both my parents know this, because even though I am fortunate in parents right now an affair can claim anyone.

I don't think you're bad for feeling raw around the person who ripped out your heart at age 13. Then again a few years later! Blimey she is a walking disaster.

I have two suggestions for putting her back in her box.

1) Mother, I haven't felt close to you since you broke my heart at ages 13 and 16 just so you could have affairs. Since I am recovering from one myself now, I simply can't handle you and won't be taking your calls until you end your affair -age and give me a sincere apology for what you did to me and my father for a cheap thrill.
2) Mother, since your own affair is still ongoing, your advice isn't welcome. We can talk about shoes, current affairs and the weather. Any attempts to discuss either my marriage or your affair will be met with a dial tone or a walk out. Shall we have some cake?

I sincerely plump for number one. She's not your mother right now and is no good to you until her affair is over.

Jedi's right about our negligence on feminine Plan B advice. The last few days have earned you a luxury pedicure for sure.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
No I don't exercise. I can't get motivated.

Great advice by Jedi.

I can honestly say staying healthy and active over the past few years is what has gotten me through everything. I highly recommend Paleo and get rid of the junk food. Cooking and making my way through a cookbook (I can recommend a paleo one if you want) is a hobby/passion of mine. It keeps me busy and knowing that its good for me and my kids just makes me happy smile

I don't ever feel like exercising before I actually do it. I just get everything set up and force myself to do it, knowing that about 10 mins into it I will feel great and keep going. I am really into Buti Yoga right now. It's amazing!

Volunteer work (that includes helping others here on MB), Plan A your son, surround yourself with people who make you laugh and smile. Go for a long walk outside each day with your kid/dogs. Fill your time with good things and don't allow yourself to dwell.

This is a good opportunity for you to teach your son about coping skills and how to deal with stress/sadness etc.

You have to MAKE a good life happen. There are bad days and moments for all of us. You push past it and keep going.

Hang in there!

Indie and I have had this disagreement before. Forget the mani/pedi. It's all about makeup. Makeup makes everything better! smile
RS,

Exercise is wonderful to throw all that frustration into a tough workout, it feels so good. Sometimes you may be working out so hard that you get mad at your situation and workout even more intense. It feels good. Yes it doesn't make your situation disappear or bring your WH back, but it helps YOU. It helps you sleep better and clear your head.

All you can do my friend, is control yourself.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Indie and I have had this disagreement before. Forget the mani/pedi. It's all about makeup. Makeup makes everything better! smile


How does that get you a foot rub from a nice lady in a white coat?

Plus, you have lovely smooth pretty feet which you can dress up a la Arabian princess. Who could feel sad with Arabian princess feet?
Indie it's hard with my mum. I feel I have enabled it for so long. It's been 12 years since they've married. Maybe it's because I never knew about MB back then and everyone was so accepting of it.

I honestly don't think her affairage will ever be over. After 12 years I just do not see that anymore.

I thought affairages never worked out? I guess it hasn't really 'worked' though. They would be far from happy and she doesn't trust him and she's very jealous and insecure.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
No I don't exercise. I can't get motivated.

Great advice by Jedi.

I can honestly say staying healthy and active over the past few years is what has gotten me through everything. I highly recommend Paleo and get rid of the junk food. Cooking and making my way through a cookbook (I can recommend a paleo one if you want) is a hobby/passion of mine. It keeps me busy and knowing that its good for me and my kids just makes me happy smile

I don't ever feel like exercising before I actually do it. I just get everything set up and force myself to do it, knowing that about 10 mins into it I will feel great and keep going. I am really into Buti Yoga right now. It's amazing!

Volunteer work (that includes helping others here on MB), Plan A your son, surround yourself with people who make you laugh and smile. Go for a long walk outside each day with your kid/dogs. Fill your time with good things and don't allow yourself to dwell.

This is a good opportunity for you to teach your son about coping skills and how to deal with stress/sadness etc.

You have to MAKE a good life happen. There are bad days and moments for all of us. You push past it and keep going.

Hang in there!


Hi Susie

What is Paleo? Never heard of that before. I'm willing to try anything once!

I'm such a procastinator with exercise.

I try to be the best mum I can to my DS, but I know he feels my pain. So sad about that.

Originally Posted by BrainHurts
RS,

Exercise is wonderful to throw all that frustration into a tough workout, it feels so good. Sometimes you may be working out so hard that you get mad at your situation and workout even more intense. It feels good. Yes it doesn't make your situation disappear or bring your WH back, but it helps YOU. It helps you sleep better and clear your head.

All you can do my friend, is control yourself.



Thanks BrainHurts. I do want to exercise. I think I need to do something small first. There's a 10 minute workout I used to do. Might try that again.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
There's a 10 minute workout I used to do. Might try that again.

You have to start somewhere.
And a 30 minute walk outside, every day.

This has known positive effects on depression. It's a one-two punch, because the exercise will release endorphins, AND the fresh air/light exposure are documented to lift the mood and outlook.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Indie it's hard with my mum. I feel I have enabled it for so long. It's been 12 years since they've married. Maybe it's because I never knew about MB back then and everyone was so accepting of it.

I honestly don't think her affairage will ever be over. After 12 years I just do not see that anymore.

I thought affairages never worked out? I guess it hasn't really 'worked' though. They would be far from happy and she doesn't trust him and she's very jealous and insecure.


I know of one where it lasted 12 years: my friends father then went on to have four more adulterous marriages, then one faithful one. He's apologised to his family since and seems really remorseful.

Another I know of lasted 20 years before the OM discarded the perfect family act and beat her. Both cases involved everyone being very accepting of the affair. It seems to make them last longer but it doesn't make them work.

You need to do whatever is right for you right now. You can't afford to sweep up after others or make them feel better.



I have in the past listened to her problems and complaining about him. I think she senses though that I won't tolerate it anymore.

Originally Posted by catwhit
And a 30 minute walk outside, every day.

This has known positive effects on depression. It's a one-two punch, because the exercise will release endorphins, AND the fresh air/light exposure are documented to lift the mood and outlook.


I do agree Catwhit that once I actually get out in the sunshine and have a walk with my son, it feels good. Just to get out there now. I worked this weekend which was a struggle.

I had a few moments of feeling stronger today. I pushed myself to work and then I went and bought some groceries which I hadn't done much since I've been back from holiday.

So now my kitchen is full of reasonably good food.

I know I'm still not up to cooking much so I had some pumpkin soup for dinner. It's a start and better then the take away I've been having.

I got my DS and I some fish and salmon to eat and vegetables. Something good and not much effort required. Baby steps for me.

For the last week I've been so sad and down and haven't listened to any music. By the way, how come when you're in a sad mood, all the stores seem to play sad love songs??

I always listen to music in my car and play it LOUD. This week my car has been silent. No music. Just me and my thoughts. Today for some reason I wanted to play music. Put my music on an upbeat song that I liked and just played it over and over. It felt good.

I'm sure my feelings are going to be all over the place but for now when I feel okay, I will just go with it.

I'm also finding that whenever I have small bursts of energy, that is when I am most productive and I take that time to do little things like clean the house. I take advantage of these times to do stuff as I know I may not feel like it later.

That's great, RS.

And give yourself the gift of enjoying the results of your productivity. Notice how nice your house looks and smells and feels, or how tidy the laundry looks all clean and folded. Or how sparkly the clean dishes look. Take pleasure in these small things. And know you are making a wonderful home for yourself and your DS.
I'm trying catwhit. I've often said to my DS that it doesn't matter if our house isn't big or fancy. I tell him that it's filled with love and fun. We do have fun together and have special times which I know WH does not do a lot with him.

Hmm hoping to get to that stage of the laundry being folded but that hasn't happened yet laugh
Is it worth me holding out two years in Plan B? Is this affair still likely to blow up or should I just divorce?

I'm concerned I never exposed properly because everybody already knew about it and condones it.

So saying that, if an affair isn't exposed properly, does that mean it never ends, or it just takes longer to end?

I exposed to people who don't condone it but see it as a fact of life! Frustrating! Makes me think of the serenity prayer.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I have in the past listened to her problems and complaining about him. I think she senses though that I won't tolerate it anymore.


But if you ever WANT to say: "Hey mum it is totally horrendous for me to listen to your affair info" - don't feel bad!

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Is it worth me holding out two years in Plan B? Is this affair still likely to blow up or should I just divorce?

I'm concerned I never exposed properly because everybody already knew about it and condones it.

So saying that, if an affair isn't exposed properly, does that mean it never ends, or it just takes longer to end?


Why don't you ask Dr H about the difference? I don't see anything different but he might.

Even when you do a full-blown exposure you get condoners. Then the fact the couple have really bad-back stabbing friends it is what helps them to self-destruct.



As for your food and cooking thingy, get a slow cooker! Just bung everything in in the morning and voila - your dinner at night.
Your mother isn't in a marriage - she's in a hurricane. Her motto- "Isn't almost drowning fun???"

Most A's don't get that far, but the ones that do are turbulent and angry. There is no happily ever after for adulterers. Think Tori Spelling.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
So saying that, if an affair isn't exposed properly, does that mean it never ends, or it just takes longer to end?

Affairs usually die a natural death on their own.
Exposure speeds up the death of the affair. By bringing it into the full light of day, the secrecy and fantasy crumbles and the partners experience conflict.

This is provided that the betrayed spouse IS following Plan B AND is NOT enabling the affair (ie open marriage, swinging, etc).

Very few affairs survive long term; Harley has explained that their relationships are based on such a lack of trust and care that they can't last.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I have in the past listened to her problems and complaining about him. I think she senses though that I won't tolerate it anymore.


But if you ever WANT to say: "Hey mum it is totally horrendous for me to listen to your affair info" - don't feel bad!

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Is it worth me holding out two years in Plan B? Is this affair still likely to blow up or should I just divorce?

I'm concerned I never exposed properly because everybody already knew about it and condones it.

So saying that, if an affair isn't exposed properly, does that mean it never ends, or it just takes longer to end?


Why don't you ask Dr H about the difference? I don't see anything different but he might.

Even when you do a full-blown exposure you get condoners. Then the fact the couple have really bad-back stabbing friends it is what helps them to self-destruct.


I would email Doctor H but I'm scared he'll tell me it's over. So I guess I'll just stay in Plan B for now.

I'm thinking of a total career change. Study will be involved but I think I can do it. I haven't been happy with my job for a while. My boss is sometimes rude one minute and nice the next. The crunch came for me today when she yelled at me on the phone and made me cry.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
So saying that, if an affair isn't exposed properly, does that mean it never ends, or it just takes longer to end?

Affairs usually die a natural death on their own.
Exposure speeds up the death of the affair. By bringing it into the full light of day, the secrecy and fantasy crumbles and the partners experience conflict.

This is provided that the betrayed spouse IS following Plan B AND is NOT enabling the affair (ie open marriage, swinging, etc).

Very few affairs survive long term; Harley has explained that their relationships are based on such a lack of trust and care that they can't last.



Thanks for that Jedi. Is there more on this in the updated SAA? I was wondering how much more information was in there than in the first book. I only have the first edition.
Originally Posted by Neak
Your mother isn't in a marriage - she's in a hurricane. Her motto- "Isn't almost drowning fun???"

Most A's don't get that far, but the ones that do are turbulent and angry. There is no happily ever after for adulterers. Think Tori Spelling.



Tori Spelling did come to mind. I often wonder how my Mum's affairage has lasted this long. I just don't understand. She's obviously not happy but seems to accept this as a way of life.

I haven't seen you and your Mum around for a while! Good to see you back.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm thinking of a total career change. Study will be involved but I think I can do it. I haven't been happy with my job for a while. My boss is sometimes rude one minute and nice the next. The crunch came for me today when she yelled at me on the phone and made me cry.


What an unprofessional bully. You need to get out of toxic environments like that and consider new horizons.

The great thing about Plan B is it is not just an opportunity for a life change - it's compulsory! No PoJA, no putting anyone else first - all your energies go on creating a brilliant and totally brand new life.

You review your bucket list, your career, your friends; everything - and one by one make them all sparkly. I did the same with better friends, a trip to India and I have a complete career change coming up. It's hard because early on in Plan B you feel a bit straggly and have very low energy - but every day you are getting stronger and making plans that slowly start to stack up.

Maybe you could move and start over entirely. I didn't but considered it. Dr H advises that sometimes, and I think it is especially important when there are nightmare enabling relatives on either side of the marriage. That's because you won't run into them anymore (healing!) Upon the end of the A, the wayward spouse is more tempted to move away from the troublemakers and join the brand new spanking life you've made. If they don't - you'll still have the great life you've made.
Good advice Indie. A few of my ex-workmates told me what a mean person she was and not very professional. They all left but I stayed on because I needed the money.

I have seen her mean side a few times now. But then she cools off and is all nice again.

Well she's been mean one time too many now.

I'm looking into a few courses to see what I can do. I can't afford to leave my job yet but I do want to eventually if I can.

I have a feeling my divorce is coming and I don't want it. I know that now he has bought the house his parents will be pushing it and so will OW. I know deep down he doesn't want this, but I know he will do it because he is pressured.

So if I get divorced, does Plan B still apply? I obviously won't be starting up contact or anything but would I still wait the 2 years to see if his A ends? Is a divorce the be all and end all?

I do want to move too.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I would email Doctor H but I'm scared he'll tell me it's over. So I guess I'll just stay in Plan B for now.

Why not email him anyway?
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I would email Doctor H but I'm scared he'll tell me it's over. So I guess I'll just stay in Plan B for now.

Why not email him anyway?


Because I don't want to hear the worst frown

I've been through so much pain and crying and with a divorce probably coming I just don't think I can handle anymore.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I would email Doctor H but I'm scared he'll tell me it's over. So I guess I'll just stay in Plan B for now.

Why not email him anyway?


Because I don't want to hear the worst frown
The Harleys have a such a calming effect when you talk to them.

Do you believe knowledge is powerful?

I know it's tough and I'm sorry for that.
Okay I guess I have nothing to lose. I've written a letter and will email him.

Could you please listen out if my letter gets read on the show? I know I won't be able to talk on the show because of the time difference.

Thanks :-)

He is really gentle and kind. I remember hearing about a case where the WH had headed for the hills overseas and the BW who emailed in was clearly desperate and wanted to know if he would ever be back as they had no real ties, no kids etc.. Dr H said: "Yeah probably he will do - but it isn't best for you to let him!" He basically said as a young childless woman she should just focus on moving on.. Awesome. You never know what he is going to say and it is always better to know chicky.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I have a feeling my divorce is coming and I don't want it.
So if I get divorced, does Plan B still apply? I obviously won't be starting up contact or anything but would I still wait the 2 years to see if his A ends? Is a divorce the be all and end all?

But you probably will want a divorce if you get to the point you see he is a hopeless case and you feel healed.

While filing for a divorce before you are ready (as I did for legal reasons) IS very painful it meant I got a jump on things and protected myself. It also left me in control of the process - he couldn't finalise, but I could because I was the petitioner and he was just the respondent.

He therefore had no say in the divorce timescale - only I did. When I was ready I did choose to finalise and get divorced (looong after I started the process) whereas he couldn't have decided to do that ever. It also meant that when I was ready to go on, it was quicker. This was good because by the time I was ready I was looking ahead to dating. Even if you did finalise the D, you can always remarry.

As for Plan B post-divorce - if you are healed you be very indifferent and will not want any contact. If you do decide to have contact you will probably become unhealed again. He doesn't get any visitation rights to you smile

Thanks for that Indie. I don't see him as a hopeless case yet. How long does it take to heal do you think?

I'm finding it hard to even imagine me being healed by all of this.

I'm sure it will be him the one who is filing. I will never file because I feel me filing will mean I'm giving up and I haven't.

I just wish this wasn't coming at a time when I'm so raw and not healed by any means.

I wonder what happened to that lady you heard on the radio show with Dr H. I wonder if she took his advice and moved on.

Can you see yourself marrying your BF one day?

Totally off topic. What's the difference between a guest and a spider? Wouldn't they be the same as they are just people lurking without having memberships?

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks for that Indie. I don't see him as a hopeless case yet. How long does it take to heal do you think?


I'd say six months in you are doing pretty good, head above water. A year - mostly fabulous. Year and a bit you are only having the occasional bad day. Two years pretty amazing and well nigh healed. This is a bit longer than my timescale but I think I was faster than most - having no kids precludes a lot of light.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Can you see yourself marrying your BF one day?


Totally. He's lovely smile


Mom's been sewing day and night for the fair, and I've been getting a lot of UA time. smile

Even if you're not technically still in PB at some point, why would you ever want to be in contact with a wayward? (Hint: you wouldn't.)
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Totally off topic. What's the difference between a guest and a spider? Wouldn't they be the same as they are just people lurking without having memberships?

I think spiders are not people.
They are like a google search engine.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I would email Doctor H but I'm scared he'll tell me it's over. So I guess I'll just stay in Plan B for now.

Why not email him anyway?


Because I don't want to hear the worst frown
The Harleys have a such a calming effect when you talk to them.

Do you believe knowledge is powerful?

I know it's tough and I'm sorry for that.

You can choose to hear Dr. Harley's professional opinion, or just cover your ears and believe whatever you want.
However, facts are facts and 1+1 will always equal 2, no matter if we will it or not.
Originally Posted by Neak
Mom's been sewing day and night for the fair, and I've been getting a lot of UA time. smile

Even if you're not technically still in PB at some point, why would you ever want to be in contact with a wayward? (Hint: you wouldn't.)



Yes you're right Neak. Seeing him would just cause more pain.

Thanks Jedi. I decided to email Dr Harley again. I feel a bit better in doing so.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks for that Indie. I don't see him as a hopeless case yet. How long does it take to heal do you think?


I'd say six months in you are doing pretty good, head above water. A year - mostly fabulous. Year and a bit you are only having the occasional bad day. Two years pretty amazing and well nigh healed. This is a bit longer than my timescale but I think I was faster than most - having no kids precludes a lot of light.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Can you see yourself marrying your BF one day?


Totally. He's lovely smile


I just want to get to that stage of being okay so badly. I finally made an appointment to see a lawyer this Friday. I'm going to give them the financial papers that my WH gave me and get some advice on how to proceed.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks for that Indie. I don't see him as a hopeless case yet. How long does it take to heal do you think?


I'd say six months in you are doing pretty good, head above water. A year - mostly fabulous. Year and a bit you are only having the occasional bad day. Two years pretty amazing and well nigh healed. This is a bit longer than my timescale but I think I was faster than most - having no kids precludes a lot of light.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Can you see yourself marrying your BF one day?


Totally. He's lovely smile


I just want to get to that stage of being okay so badly. I finally made an appointment to see a lawyer this Friday. I'm going to give them the financial papers that my WH gave me and get some advice on how to proceed.


Good girl! I won't lie to you - that is a bad day. It's hard to do but it's better to get this stuff out of the way early to allow healing later. See a few lawyers and interview them before choosing one. So many are lazy and uncaring.

I know you want to get to that healed point fast, but be patient. A broken leg wouldn't heal overnight and this is so much worse. So much worse and yet it WILL heal if you let it over time.
Remind me what the financial papers are and why you are bringing them?
I know how hard this will be but I'm in the thinking of you to get this out of the way.

The financial papers are the financial settlement. He has offered me an amount of money and I want to get the lawyers advise on what I am entitled too. My WH doesn't have a lawyer and he just printed them off the internet and filled in details.

I need to get this done now seeing as he now gone off and bought a house with OW.

I've dragged this out for so long now as I just don't want to deal with it.

I haven't met the lawyer yet but she comes highly recommended by my IM who is using her as well.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I know how hard this will be but I'm in the thinking of you to get this out of the way.

The financial papers are the financial settlement. He has offered me an amount of money and I want to get the lawyers advise on what I am entitled too. My WH doesn't have a lawyer and he just printed them off the internet and filled in details.

I need to get this done now seeing as he now gone off and bought a house with OW.

I've dragged this out for so long now as I just don't want to deal with it.

I haven't met the lawyer yet but she comes highly recommended by my IM who is using her as well.

That is the rihgt route. As you have children involved and I may be wrong but isn't your husband the breadwinner. Too many times on this site you hear about WH spending absurd amounts of money on their skank and neglecting the children financially. Since he is being lazy and expect you to bow to his will by not having a lawyer of his own, sneak attack and go on the offensive and protect your children from his dangerous actions. Also, being he is buying or bought a house ask the lawyer if you will be liable if foreclosure happens. If the lawyer you go see doesn't say what you want to hear or is lazy go see another. I suggest you consult with at least three lawyers and pick the best one for the job.
Good for you! You're no longer letting yourself be swept along at someone else's mercy. You're taking charge even of the less pleasant aspects of your life. Doing so will give you a measure of control, which will bring a surprising peace.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Okay I guess I have nothing to lose. I've written a letter and will email him.

Could you please listen out if my letter gets read on the show? I know I won't be able to talk on the show because of the time difference.

Thanks :-)
Of course, and it's on my list.

Did they get back to you as to when it will be on?
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I know how hard this will be but I'm in the thinking of you to get this out of the way.

The financial papers are the financial settlement. He has offered me an amount of money and I want to get the lawyers advise on what I am entitled too. My WH doesn't have a lawyer and he just printed them off the internet and filled in details.

I need to get this done now seeing as he now gone off and bought a house with OW.

I've dragged this out for so long now as I just don't want to deal with it.

I haven't met the lawyer yet but she comes highly recommended by my IM who is using her as well.

That is the rihgt route. As you have children involved and I may be wrong but isn't your husband the breadwinner. Too many times on this site you hear about WH spending absurd amounts of money on their skank and neglecting the children financially. Since he is being lazy and expect you to bow to his will by not having a lawyer of his own, sneak attack and go on the offensive and protect your children from his dangerous actions. Also, being he is buying or bought a house ask the lawyer if you will be liable if foreclosure happens. If the lawyer you go see doesn't say what you want to hear or is lazy go see another. I suggest you consult with at least three lawyers and pick the best one for the job.



Hi tranquil

I see your point in consulting with 3 lawyers. If I could afford this I would. It cost me 300 dollars alone today just for the consultation which I had to scrape together. Lucky for me the lawyer seemed very good and made me feel comfortable. She is confident I will get a fair deal.

I got served with divorce papers the other day. A court date has been set and I am going to be divorced soon. I know WH has been pushed to do it because I know this is not something he would do off his own back. I am so sad and upset. My lawyer said I can drag it out a bit but it won't be long and I won't be able to stop it. I Didn't Want This To Happen when I haven't healed. I'm so upset.

I still believe deep down WH and OW will not last the distance but who knows how long it will be.
Originally Posted by Neak
Good for you! You're no longer letting yourself be swept along at someone else's mercy. You're taking charge even of the less pleasant aspects of your life. Doing so will give you a measure of control, which will bring a surprising peace.


Hi Neak, Through all this sadness I do feel a little more in control. I felt so relieved after going to my lawyer today. I didn't want to have to do any of this but it was my WH who wanted this done so I have to do it for me and my son.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Okay I guess I have nothing to lose. I've written a letter and will email him.

Could you please listen out if my letter gets read on the show? I know I won't be able to talk on the show because of the time difference.

Thanks :-)
Of course, and it's on my list.

Did they get back to you as to when it will be on?


No I haven't heard anything back BrainHurts. It's been a few days. Should I wait a bit longer or re-send?

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Okay I guess I have nothing to lose. I've written a letter and will email him.

Could you please listen out if my letter gets read on the show? I know I won't be able to talk on the show because of the time difference.

Thanks :-)
Of course, and it's on my list.

Did they get back to you as to when it will be on?


No I haven't heard anything back BrainHurts. It's been a few days. Should I wait a bit longer or re-send?
They had replays on the radio show most of the week and so I think they may have been away.

Although, I would send it again.
I've just resent the email.
Does it seem they are still on holidays Brainhurts? I still haven't heard back after 2 emails.

Nothing much to report. My DS had his birthday yesterday so I made him a beautiful cake and spoilt him. We had a great night. He is my strength. I am so happy with what a kind thoughtful boy he is. I got some beautiful photos of his eyes all lit up with his presents.



Your question was answered on Mondays show.
Thank you so much Tranquil. Do you remember what was said or if there is a link up yet?

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thank you so much Tranquil. Do you remember what was said or if there is a link up yet?
It's on my list as soon as they load them in the archives.
Thanks for looking out for my question BrainHurts. I thought it was odd that they never replied and told me when it was going to be on.

Still feeling quite emotional with the impending divorce. I never wanted this. It seems so final and I don't want it to be.

I would have preferred to be healed so I could deal with this better.
Divorces can take ages. By the month it's time to be finalised it's likely it will either be off the table or you will want it in a desperate hurry. The start of the process is pretty woeful though when you aren't ready.

Your son's birthday sounds great!
Thanks Indie I did have a great birthday with my son. I went out with some girlfriends tonight for dinner and dancing. It was okay but unfortunately I just felt very sad looking at all the couples and I didn't dance at all. It felt so good to be home in my bed.

Unfortunately the court has set a date for our divorce and it is in 4 weeks time. Apparently my WH filed a couple of months ago and was pressured to do it and I didn't know about it.

So it will go through quickly and I don't want it at all. It doesn't take much to get a divorce here and I can't drag it out.

The crazy thing is that even though he has bought a house with her and divorcing me, I know he still loves me. What he's done hasn't shown this but when I saw him ages ago I could see it in his eyes. I just knew.

I guess the fog makes you do crazy things right.

I just can't see him being with her forever.

I need to find something else to concentrate on. This pain is still so unbearable.
I thought you were in the UK for some reason? Whereabouts are you?

Also at teh start of your thread last year you said your FiL served you with divorce papers? What happened with that?

Are you sure divorce papers can be filed without your knowledge? That seems most strange to me. And is it the first stage or final stage that is set for in four weeks?

What grounds did he file under and did you accept or challenge them?

See, if he says the marriage should be dissolved for your adultery, you can easily just rebound back with the fact he forgave you and marital relations continued. He can't file for reasons of his own adultery.

What did your lawyer say?

Rocksolid,

I think you should proceed with the divorce and GET AN ATTORNEY.
You NEED to have an attorney in this matter.
Remain in Plan B.
Radio Clip of rocksolid's question
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I thought you were in the UK for some reason? Whereabouts are you?

Also at teh start of your thread last year you said your FiL served you with divorce papers? What happened with that?

Are you sure divorce papers can be filed without your knowledge? That seems most strange to me. And is it the first stage or final stage that is set for in four weeks?

What grounds did he file under and did you accept or challenge them?

See, if he says the marriage should be dissolved for your adultery, you can easily just rebound back with the fact he forgave you and marital relations continued. He can't file for reasons of his own adultery.

What did your lawyer say?


Hi Indie I am in Australia. Yes my FIL served me with divorce papers last year. When this happenned my H did it as a joint application, meaning I had to sign it too. I didn't do this so they didn't get sent and nothing happenned.

The ones he did a couple of months ago, he did it as a sole application, meaning I didn't have to sign it. In Australia, you don't need a reason for divorce, it is a no-fault country. You only have to be separated for 12 months and if one person wants the divorce they basically get it even if the other person doesn't want it.

So he's done the sole application, and it came back from the court setting 4 weeks now as the hearing date. My WH needs to go to court on this day because he was the one who filed. He needs to go because we have a child under 18 together and the judge needs to be satisfied that our child is properly looked after. I don't need to go to the court but I can if I wish to.

I've spoken to my lawyer about it and she said if I don't go to court, the judge will ask my WH for proof that I was served the papers. My WH does not have proof as the papers were just pushed under my front door.

Apparently because he doesn't proof of service, the divorce MAY get adjourned. She said it would only get adjourned for the minimum of 8 weeks and that it would go through eventually.

So my WH is very forgetful and I'm just wondering if he will even turn up to the court! If he doesn't I'm sure it will get adjourned in that case too. Though, I'm sure OW will know the date and make sure he doesn't forget.

So here you can get a divorce pretty easily as long as you are separated 12 months. There's no first and final stages, it's pretty much just a final stage frown
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Rocksolid,

I think you should proceed with the divorce and GET AN ATTORNEY.
You NEED to have an attorney in this matter.
Remain in Plan B.


Hi Jedi

Yes I have a solicitor. She has sent him a letter requesting all his financial documents, bank details etc for our financial settlement. He now has to respond with all this information. Who knows how long that will take him to do.

She's pretty much told me I can't stop the divorce.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts



Thank you BrainHurts. I have started to listen I am up to the first caller Tammy. I'm a bit scared to hear what he has to say about my situation.

Ah yeah, Aussie divorce laws are even worse than ours.

I thought what he said about divorce ushering in reality would be very encouraging to you. Still listening myself right now.
Wow, what did you think? He gave you a timescale of a year and even said it turning into an affairage would speed up the demise?

I think you're going to be in a position to choose in a years time and your biggest problem will actually be his yes man attitude. You might not want a marriage with him unless he can PoJA properly and stand up to his family. If he gets to a real repentance point though you could address that.
Yes Indie he seems to go along with what everybody tells him to do. I hope I do get to that position in a year but it's so hard to see through each day.

I was a bit dissapointed that Joyce didn't seem to know my background when I had wrote in the email that they had been living together for 2 years already and that we have a child together. I really wanted to know that because they had been together so long, was it so entrenched now that it wouldn't survive.

A lot of the important information I had written in my email wasn't read out.

If he does get to that repentance point, his standing up to his family would be a big thing for me to take him back.

I did feel hopeful that Dr Harley said his chances of the affair not working were slim. But I do agree that him buying this house with her makes it difficult.

I remember you saying Indie that them buying a house together would kill them in months. Maybe this is the reality he needs.

They never do read out the emails in full, but they take it all into account when giving out the advice. They'd overrun on time if they did that.

The fact they've been together a long time - well most of that was triangular with you still in the picture. I think you can safely discount that. Dr H focused on the divorce date as being the start date for their destruction and you can sure see why he'd think so, given the dynamic.

She's running towards it like its the finish line in her competition with you, he is doing it to please her. When they hit that finish line it will be hugely anti climatic: she is going to look at him and think "what now?" Then he is going to look at her for his reward and she won't have any. If they marry, to keep the momentum going, it will be an even bigger anti climax.

I think all in all the close divorce date is great news and gives them lots of rope. We just need to keep you happy and thriving throughout it.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
If he does get to that repentance point, his standing up to his family would be a big thing for me to take him back.


Good! The longer you are in Plan B the higher your bar will get.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
So he's done the sole application, and it came back from the court setting 4 weeks now as the hearing date. My WH needs to go to court on this day because he was the one who filed. He needs to go because we have a child under 18 together and the judge needs to be satisfied that our child is properly looked after. I don't need to go to the court but I can if I wish to.

Do you plan to go?

Quote
I've spoken to my lawyer about it and she said if I don't go to court, the judge will ask my WH for proof that I was served the papers. My WH does not have proof as the papers were just pushed under my front door.

Apparently because he doesn't proof of service, the divorce MAY get adjourned. She said it would only get adjourned for the minimum of 8 weeks and that it would go through eventually.

If you say you weren't served then why is your lawyer requesting financial documents? How would that be explained? dontknow
I wouldn't drag it out. Can't see any benefit in that after hearing Dr H's advice. To Tammy as well, he said if you're getting divorced speed it up rather than slow it down.

It's a fascinating Art of War move. Hand the enemy a victory which is actually their undoing.
Rocksolid,

Try to focus on yourself during this time and not on his affair.
Can you do one good deed for someone every day?
Can you do one good deed for yourself every day?

Focus on building a life without WH and if he eventually comes around then you will be in a healthy, sane state of mind to se things objectively.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by BrainHurts



Thank you BrainHurts. I have started to listen I am up to the first caller Tammy. I'm a bit scared to hear what he has to say about my situation.
You're welcome. What did you think?
Originally Posted by indiegirl
They never do read out the emails in full, but they take it all into account when giving out the advice. They'd overrun on time if they did that.

The fact they've been together a long time - well most of that was triangular with you still in the picture. I think you can safely discount that. Dr H focused on the divorce date as being the start date for their destruction and you can sure see why he'd think so, given the dynamic.

She's running towards it like its the finish line in her competition with you, he is doing it to please her. When they hit that finish line it will be hugely anti climatic: she is going to look at him and think "what now?" Then he is going to look at her for his reward and she won't have any. If they marry, to keep the momentum going, it will be an even bigger anti climax.

I think all in all the close divorce date is great news and gives them lots of rope. We just need to keep you happy and thriving throughout it.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
If he does get to that repentance point, his standing up to his family would be a big thing for me to take him back.


Good! The longer you are in Plan B the higher your bar will get.



Indie thank you. It makes a lot of sense to me in what you are saying. Especially the competition thing. All along OW has been competing with me. I have seen this so many times over the past couple of years. I do think that once the divorce is final, she will think that everything will be different for her and WH but I believe she will still be as unhappy as ever.

I was actually thinking last night about how high the bar will be for him to come back. And if he never comes back, whoever tries to win me will have a very high bar too.

When I was out with my girlfriends last night, I was observing other women on the dance floor and just couldn't believe all these women throwing themselves at random men who they didn't even know. And the men were so sleazy checking out all the women and ogling them so blatantly. I was thinking to myself that whoever gets me one day is going to have to be pretty damn special and respectful.

If my WH comes back he has a lot of making up to do. As do I of course. I do believe this experience has made me learn so much and I know I have all the tools I need to protect our marriage and our love and never have this type of thing happen ever again. It's just so frustrating knowing I have this knowledge but not being able to do anything with it. Hopefully one day.





Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by BrainHurts



Thank you BrainHurts. I have started to listen I am up to the first caller Tammy. I'm a bit scared to hear what he has to say about my situation.
You're welcome. What did you think?



I'm glad Dr Harley didn't say it was a completely lost cause. I like how Indie explained it to me.

I also found Dr Harley's advice to Tammy to be helpful to me as well. I like how I can take bits of others advice and relate that to my situation as well.

Thanks so much for the link BrainHurts.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Rocksolid,

Try to focus on yourself during this time and not on his affair.
Can you do one good deed for someone every day?
Can you do one good deed for yourself every day?

Focus on building a life without WH and if he eventually comes around then you will be in a healthy, sane state of mind to se things objectively.


Thanks Jedi. I like the idea of doing a good deed for someone every day. I'm looking into getting into aged care in the near future, having a complete different career change. I think a change of focus would be good for me and I've always wanted to help elderley people.

Have you read any new good books to your girls lately?
Hi black_raven

No I don't plan on going to the divorce hearing. I don't think this would be a good idea especially if WH is going to be there. This would hurt me extremely to see him there and I would get too emotional.

The divorce and financial settlement are 2 different matters. I'm mainly seeing my lawyer for the financial settlement but did ask advice on the divorce while I was there.

In Australia, you can do your financial settlement without having your divorce yet. In saying that, once you are divorced, you only have 12 months to do your financial settlement or it becomes harder to do or maybe impossible. So seeing I will be divorced soon, I need to get my financial settlement done as it may take a while.

So..thinking out loud about the divorce.

A couple of options.

1. My lawyer currently has the divorce papers. Do nothing as she suggests. WH turns up to court with no proof I've been served. Divorce may get adjourned for another 6 - 8 weeks. This pi$$es OW off that divorce didn't go through straightaway which causes her to lovebust him some more.

2. Get the divorce papers back off my lawyer. Sign the part where it says I acknowledge them and agree to divorce. Send back to WH. WH does not expect this at all as he will be fully expecting me to not want the divorce. So he either gets scared and thinks oh sh*t, I wasn't expecting that. Makes him stand up and take notice. OW thinks 'Yes rocksolid doesn't want him anymore, he's all mine now'. Or it just causes him to think 'Oh she doesn't want me after all, I might as well marry OW.

3. Combination of 1 and 2. Drag it out for another 8 weeks to pi$$ off OW. Then sign it on his second try around.

I don't know. Maybe I'm over thinking things.

What would be the most strategic option?

Originally Posted by indiegirl
I wouldn't drag it out. Can't see any benefit in that after hearing Dr H's advice. To Tammy as well, he said if you're getting divorced speed it up rather than slow it down.

It's a fascinating Art of War move. Hand the enemy a victory which is actually their undoing.



Hmm maybe I should hand the OW her victory. But should I just pi$$ her off some more before I do? Surely her doing some more lovebusting to WH would be good.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
So..thinking out loud about the divorce.

A couple of options.

1. My lawyer currently has the divorce papers. Do nothing as she suggests. WH turns up to court with no proof I've been served. Divorce may get adjourned for another 6 - 8 weeks. This pi$$es OW off that divorce didn't go through straightaway which causes her to lovebust him some more.

2. Get the divorce papers back off my lawyer. Sign the part where it says I acknowledge them and agree to divorce. Send back to WH. WH does not expect this at all as he will be fully expecting me to not want the divorce. So he either gets scared and thinks oh sh*t, I wasn't expecting that. Makes him stand up and take notice. OW thinks 'Yes rocksolid doesn't want him anymore, he's all mine now'. Or it just causes him to think 'Oh she doesn't want me after all, I might as well marry OW.

3. Combination of 1 and 2. Drag it out for another 8 weeks to pi$$ off OW. Then sign it on his second try around.

I don't know. Maybe I'm over thinking things.

What would be the most strategic option?


In Plan B at all times you consider yourself - not the A. The A's self destruct button is built right in - there's nothing you need to do to it. You can see for yourself that whatever option you take - go along with the divorce or stall it, the APs will lovebust each other. They will lovebust each other no matter what you do, so in Plan B you are free at all times to just pick whatever option is best for you.

Now, going by Dr H's advice there is roughly a year's timescale on the A from the date of divorce. A date when you will likely need to make a decision. So is it better for you to reach that point sooner or later? I'd say sooner.

Then factor in the finances. Does more or less time help you in the fight for finances?

Just pick the right decision for you and let them worry about their affair.


I'm inclined to say, for the sake of your Plan B healing that the court day that's been set is going to be unpleasant for you anyway, so you might as well have it all over with on that day. Just allow the D through to prevent another bad day. Then concentrate on your financial settlement and on healing. By the time a year has passed I want to see you feeling very good and your bar very high; so you should get started!

That's my tuppence worth unless a delay gives you a legal advantage.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Jedi. I like the idea of doing a good deed for someone every day. I'm looking into getting into aged care in the near future, having a complete different career change. I think a change of focus would be good for me and I've always wanted to help elderley people.

Have you read any new good books to your girls lately?

Yes, we started reading Dorothy and the Wizard In Oz. (I'm also recording the readings on a cassette tape and mailing it to my nephews so they can listen too)
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I wouldn't drag it out. Can't see any benefit in that after hearing Dr H's advice. To Tammy as well, he said if you're getting divorced speed it up rather than slow it down.

It's a fascinating Art of War move. Hand the enemy a victory which is actually their undoing.



Hmm maybe I should hand the OW her victory. But should I just pi$$ her off some more before I do? Surely her doing some more lovebusting to WH would be good.

IN Plan B you should focus on yourself.
Oh, if you want to upset OW a much better way is to post her on www.cheaterville.com

Most of the cheaters hate being posted on that website.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
What would be the most strategic option?

I would sign the papers and let the D proceed. Stalling for a month or two is unnecessarily dragging out the limbo.
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by rocksolid
What would be the most strategic option?

I would sign the papers and let the D proceed. Stalling for a month or two is unnecessarily dragging out the limbo.

Plus any delay will cost you additional money.
rocksolid,
you had to stop craying and saying your STBXH love you..
I was here 2 years ago when your husband said that he love you so much and want you back even if you are cheating on him..
yes he did really love and probably steel but he will never forget what you did to him ,maybe forgive but never forget..
I remembre that he said that you refuse to make love to him to stay faithful to your lover who live with his parents right ?
-I mean come on just think twice before you question why yoour STBXH doesn't want you back
Nak, you have been asked a couple of times now: what's your story?
Originally Posted by Prisca
Nak, you have been asked a couple of times now: what's your story?

Well, I think its safe to assume that this poster is the husband.
Jedi, this poster is definately NOT my husband. My husband is very well spoken and does not write in the manner this person writes.

Without a doubt, this is NOT him.
why do you think I'm the husband ?
i just remind her of the facts and quotes of her husband
and no i'm not the husband i'm a woman
If you posted here 2 years ago, why don't you tell us all your user name back then? As your current username is only newly registered.

Please stop posting your unwanted non MB advice on my thread thank you.

Originally Posted by nakxd
why do you think I'm the husband ?
i just remind her of the facts and quotes of her husband
and no i'm not the husband i'm a woman

Well who are you?
What was your previous posting name from 2 years ago, and why are you posting now?
I'm just telling you the truth rock , and it's your husband words not mine
I'm very well aware of what my husband wrote thank you. Stay off my thread.

Originally Posted by nakxd
I'm just telling you the truth rock , and it's your husband words not mine

All you are doing is disrupting her thread.
She came her, well aware of her mistakes of the past and has committed to following Dr. Harley's advice.

What her husband said two years ago is irrelevant at this point because it is obvious that he did NOT wait for her affair to die a natural death, but instead started one of his own.

He is the one living in a current state of adultery, not her.
Thanks Jedi I appreciate the support.

I must say I've never read The Wizard of Oz. I have watched the movie. I bet the book would be obviously better?

Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by rocksolid
So..thinking out loud about the divorce.

A couple of options.

1. My lawyer currently has the divorce papers. Do nothing as she suggests. WH turns up to court with no proof I've been served. Divorce may get adjourned for another 6 - 8 weeks. This pi$$es OW off that divorce didn't go through straightaway which causes her to lovebust him some more.

2. Get the divorce papers back off my lawyer. Sign the part where it says I acknowledge them and agree to divorce. Send back to WH. WH does not expect this at all as he will be fully expecting me to not want the divorce. So he either gets scared and thinks oh sh*t, I wasn't expecting that. Makes him stand up and take notice. OW thinks 'Yes rocksolid doesn't want him anymore, he's all mine now'. Or it just causes him to think 'Oh she doesn't want me after all, I might as well marry OW.

3. Combination of 1 and 2. Drag it out for another 8 weeks to pi$$ off OW. Then sign it on his second try around.

I don't know. Maybe I'm over thinking things.

What would be the most strategic option?


In Plan B at all times you consider yourself - not the A. The A's self destruct button is built right in - there's nothing you need to do to it. You can see for yourself that whatever option you take - go along with the divorce or stall it, the APs will lovebust each other. They will lovebust each other no matter what you do, so in Plan B you are free at all times to just pick whatever option is best for you.

Now, going by Dr H's advice there is roughly a year's timescale on the A from the date of divorce. A date when you will likely need to make a decision. So is it better for you to reach that point sooner or later? I'd say sooner.

Then factor in the finances. Does more or less time help you in the fight for finances?

Just pick the right decision for you and let them worry about their affair.


Hi Indie, Yes I think sooner should be the option. I guess I should get the hurting over sooner than later. I'd rather hurt in a few weeks time when it happens, than 8 weeks down the track. If it goes through in a few weeks, then hopefully 8 weeks down the track I will be feeling a bit better.

But maybe not because I will have to then deal with him moving from our marital home into his new home with OW.

I just want all this hurt to go away. I'm just feeling so worn down by it all.

I want to survive this!!

I'm pretty sure that his 'relationship' with OW will not last forever. But I want to get through this a stronger person.

I'm sick of crying and being sad.

It's funny I've cried so much and I always think 'When is this hurt going to end? But then I also look back on this all and am so proud that I am still pushing on in despite of everything. It's so hard but I'm just taking it one day at a time.
Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by rocksolid
What would be the most strategic option?

I would sign the papers and let the D proceed. Stalling for a month or two is unnecessarily dragging out the limbo.



I called my lawyer today as she has been holding on to the divorce papers. I left a message for her that I wanted to come and pick up the papers and sign them that I have acknowledged them. I will follow up with her tomorrow.

Just wondering how to get them to WH. I think by post would be the best option.


I'm really proud of you too. I also wanted to add that you WILL get a chance to implement your growing MB knowledge - I'm not married either and implement it every day. It can be applied to so many things.

Why look how well you dealt with the recent disruption on your thread. Living up to your name in full!

I'd never thought of it like that - applying MB in other situations too. I think I implemented when I went out with my girlfriends in keeping away from men and not letting my friends lead me astray.

As for the recent disruption on my thread I think that poster must be friends with divinelyfavored grin
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Jedi I appreciate the support.

I must say I've never read The Wizard of Oz. I have watched the movie. I bet the book would be obviously better?

The book is great.
We are reading Dorothy and the Wizard In Oz, which is a sequel to the Wizard of Oz.
Could the poster posting on your thread be the OW? If you look at her posts, first asking for other posters to link her to 'remorseful cheating wives' (perhaps looking for this one) and then to ask how revenge affairs turn out (and that is how I would categorize your H's affair so perhaps asking how her own A would turn out). And not being willing to post her own story.

I fear this thread is not safe.
Just in case it is...OW, I have a news flash for you. A hollow victory is headed your way in 3, 2..........right about now.

Rock, glad to hear you took the advice I hadn't even given yet about getting service from your attorney. Most people don't get to control when and how they get served D papers, but you do! Hooray!!

A's and affairages are either doomed completely or miserable, so the faster you can get out of the way, the better.

smile
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Thanks Jedi I appreciate the support.

I must say I've never read The Wizard of Oz. I have watched the movie. I bet the book would be obviously better?

The book is great.
We are reading Dorothy and the Wizard In Oz, which is a sequel to the Wizard of Oz.


Ah I didn't realise there was a sequel called the Wizard In Oz. I will have to check that out it sounds exciting.

Originally Posted by unwritten
Could the poster posting on your thread be the OW? If you look at her posts, first asking for other posters to link her to 'remorseful cheating wives' (perhaps looking for this one) and then to ask how revenge affairs turn out (and that is how I would categorize your H's affair so perhaps asking how her own A would turn out). And not being willing to post her own story.

I fear this thread is not safe.


Hi unwritten, I hadn't thought of that. I don't think it is OW though. I've spoken to the moderators and can quite safely assume it isn't her. Thank you for your concern smile

Originally Posted by Neak
Just in case it is...OW, I have a news flash for you. A hollow victory is headed your way in 3, 2..........right about now.

Rock, glad to hear you took the advice I hadn't even given yet about getting service from your attorney. Most people don't get to control when and how they get served D papers, but you do! Hooray!!

A's and affairages are either doomed completely or miserable, so the faster you can get out of the way, the better.

smile


Hi Neak long time no see smile

Yes I do need to get out of the way I agree. I'm thinking they will be doomed eventually. Yeah right about now would be good for OW to have a hollow victory!

Back to concentrating on myself.
So this is my latest dilemma regarding the divorce.

I just went and picked up the divorce papers from my lawyer as she was holding onto them.

I see that when WH has to go to court he needs to bring with him a signed 'acknowledgment of service' with him to prove that I received the papers.

This was supposed to be attached to the divorce papers by WH. So lo and behold I pick up the papers and realise that WH hasn't attached this form. That's what you get when you print forms from the internet and don't do it properly!

So now I either have to ask WH to print one off the internet for me to sign. If I don't tell him about it he will turn up to court and it will get adjourned.

So going by Dr Harley and everyone here I should get this over with sooner rather than later.

But I feel like I shouldn't have to help WH out with this information. It's not my fault he didn't include the form for me to sign. But if I don't help him out then he turns up to court and it gets adjourned for another 6 - 8 weeks.

Should I get IM to send him an email and request the form? Do I tell him that without the form it will get adjourned? Or do not offer that information, just ask for the form and that's it?

Why should I have to help him out when it's never what I wanted?
Can't you just have your lawyer give you one to sign then she can send it over to WHs lawyer?

I don't see it as 'helping him' now that it's been identified as your goal. Having it drag out in court is painful to you and keeps you in limbo so just work whatever steps you need to to make things better for you.

There is no 'helping him' - only he can do that!

My WH doesn't have a lawyer. The lawyer said he has to print one off the family court website.

So I guess I'll just tell IM to tell him to do it.

Remember it is for YOU. Everything you do in Plan B is for you. No matter when the day falls when you need to make a decision or what prompts it - the most important thing is you are in the best possible emotional shape on that day and that your life looks great.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
So this is my latest dilemma regarding the divorce.

I just went and picked up the divorce papers from my lawyer as she was holding onto them.

I see that when WH has to go to court he needs to bring with him a signed 'acknowledgment of service' with him to prove that I received the papers.

This was supposed to be attached to the divorce papers by WH. So lo and behold I pick up the papers and realise that WH hasn't attached this form. That's what you get when you print forms from the internet and don't do it properly!

So now I either have to ask WH to print one off the internet for me to sign. If I don't tell him about it he will turn up to court and it will get adjourned.

So going by Dr Harley and everyone here I should get this over with sooner rather than later.

But I feel like I shouldn't have to help WH out with this information. It's not my fault he didn't include the form for me to sign. But if I don't help him out then he turns up to court and it gets adjourned for another 6 - 8 weeks.

Should I get IM to send him an email and request the form? Do I tell him that without the form it will get adjourned? Or do not offer that information, just ask for the form and that's it?

Why should I have to help him out when it's never what I wanted?


I would just ignore the situation and move forward.
Let him figure it out.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Remember it is for YOU. Everything you do in Plan B is for you. No matter when the day falls when you need to make a decision or what prompts it - the most important thing is you are in the best possible emotional shape on that day and that your life looks great.


Yes I do need to do everything for myself now. I want so much to heal and not feel this pain anymore.

I listened to Dr Harley again and do you really think he meant that I would have to make a decision in a years time? From what I took from it he just meant 'oh wait another year and see what happens'. I don't think he could definately say that I would have to make a decision then. I know he said that now that WH had bought the house makes things extremely difficult.

Maybe I'm thinking about this too much. I actually felt like I learned more from the previous callers situation.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
So this is my latest dilemma regarding the divorce.

I just went and picked up the divorce papers from my lawyer as she was holding onto them.

I see that when WH has to go to court he needs to bring with him a signed 'acknowledgment of service' with him to prove that I received the papers.

This was supposed to be attached to the divorce papers by WH. So lo and behold I pick up the papers and realise that WH hasn't attached this form. That's what you get when you print forms from the internet and don't do it properly!

So now I either have to ask WH to print one off the internet for me to sign. If I don't tell him about it he will turn up to court and it will get adjourned.

So going by Dr Harley and everyone here I should get this over with sooner rather than later.

But I feel like I shouldn't have to help WH out with this information. It's not my fault he didn't include the form for me to sign. But if I don't help him out then he turns up to court and it gets adjourned for another 6 - 8 weeks.

Should I get IM to send him an email and request the form? Do I tell him that without the form it will get adjourned? Or do not offer that information, just ask for the form and that's it?

Why should I have to help him out when it's never what I wanted?


I would just ignore the situation and move forward.
Let him figure it out.



I was actually thinking along these lines Jedi. Just letting him figure it all out for himself. He wanted the divorce so he can deal with it.
Whatever works best for YOU is what I vote for. Either helping or not helping is a legit choice under these circumstances.

My personal opinion is that if you hold off making any final decisions of your own for a year, that in a year you'll know what you should do. Not that you wait a year and then MUST make a choice of some type, but rather after you've been dark that long you'll know whether you're better off deciding then, or deciding later.

It's been a whirlwind of music around here the last couple of weeks. Since the 31st of July, DD15 won a music talent search at the local and state levels. It's nice to have a little time to breathe again, since it's several months till the next one.
Wow Neak great news on your daughter winning the talent search. Did she play an instrument or sing? I remember your Mum saying what a talented family you all are!

I like the idea of not making any decisions of my own for a year. And even then I may not be ready to make any. I really don't think I am in any state of mind to make any decisions right now anyway. I would rather be in a clear frame of mind. Who knows how I will be feeling in a year right?

Yep, so re-evaluate in a year. Time is your friend.

Thanks for the congrats. She played and sang both. smile
Hi Neak

I don't know if I can re-evaluate in a year. It seems so long away. The divorce date is looming and I'm just feeling really down about everything.

Somedays I think I just want to Plan FU. I'm really over it all to be honest. I'm sick of the way he has hurt me for so long.

hug Whatever is best for YOU, that's what you do.
Hey Rock. Staying solid I hope! That was all. Feel down? Go for a run it works wonders! Even 100 yards
My advice is stop being reactive and be proactive. Make your decisions for what's best for you like a Neak said. Even though your in Plan B its a rollercoaster and you see how "news" about your WH upsets you. Do you and running or some exercise does wonders for depression. Buy a workout DVD and start small. What have you done for rocksolid lately?
Originally Posted by TranquilDark
My advice is stop being reactive and be proactive. Make your decisions for what's best for you like a Neak said. Even though your in Plan B its a rollercoaster and you see how "news" about your WH upsets you. Do you and running or some exercise does wonders for depression. Buy a workout DVD and start small. What have you done for rocksolid lately?


Hi Tranquil. Thanks I will have to remember to be proactive and not reactive. I often forget this and need the reminder. I tend to be very reactive and let my emotions take over.
I haven't done any exercise. I'm often so exhausted when I get home from work that I'm too tired. I'm thinking about buying a bicycle though and maybe doing some leisurely riding to start with.
I do feel like I'm on a rollercoaster. I feel I have had so many hurtful things thrown at me. I often wonder how I've got through it all. But somehow I have. Wonder if it will ever get any easier. Thinking am I ever going to get a break!

It's great knowing I have lots of support here and that everyone can relate.
Originally Posted by Bluebeck
Hey Rock. Staying solid I hope! That was all. Feel down? Go for a run it works wonders! Even 100 yards


I used to run when I was a teenager but that was a long time ago! I think a walk might be a better start for me.
Originally Posted by Neak
hug Whatever is best for YOU, that's what you do.


Thanks Neak. I'm starting to realise this. I have to think of myself now.
Whenever I had a down day, I would look to see if anything had triggered it (sometimes it was just a very innocuous item from my marriage) or if it was just one of the days the rollercoaster dipped some.

I was able to eliminate a lot of triggers in this way and keep down days to a minimum. But you are going to get them. The other down days will only go away with time.

Every down period is followed by an upswing. You learn how to enjoy the upswings and endure the downs - treating them like summer rainstorms. So much so that you are surprised when the downs disappear all together.

I think anyone who endures this and comes out the other side becomes naturally formidable. No matter what future pressures await you will always know how to treat your feelings and anxieties like temporary weather conditions, look past them, hold your nerve, show patience and come out smiling.

Formidable. Yes. smile
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Whenever I had a down day, I would look to see if anything had triggered it (sometimes it was just a very innocuous item from my marriage) or if it was just one of the days the rollercoaster dipped some.

I was able to eliminate a lot of triggers in this way and keep down days to a minimum. But you are going to get them. The other down days will only go away with time.

Every down period is followed by an upswing. You learn how to enjoy the upswings and endure the downs - treating them like summer rainstorms. So much so that you are surprised when the downs disappear all together.

I think anyone who endures this and comes out the other side becomes naturally formidable. No matter what future pressures await you will always know how to treat your feelings and anxieties like temporary weather conditions, look past them, hold your nerve, show patience and come out smiling.


Hi Indie
I have been triggered. I saw my friend at the store the other day and she kindly told me my WH had a big real estate For Sale sign out the front of his place with photos on the sign.

I tried for days not to look but I went on the real estate website and looked at the photos of our home. It just made me sad to see all the work he had done to our home and there was a photo of him and OW on the bedside table.

I know I shouldn't have looked at the website but I couldn't help it. I knew it was going to make me upset yet I still looked.

My friend who told me about the sign, she actually lives in the same suburb as where my WH has bought his new house. So I am not going to go to her house anymore. It will upset me too much to go to that suburb knowng my WH is moving there. It's not my friend's fault but I just can't go there anymore. If she is a good friend, she will understand and we can meet elsewhere.

I don't really see her a lot anymore anyway so I don't think it will be a problem.

So I want to make some goals for the next 6 months. I want to heal. I want to try and get over him and be feeling a lot better in 6 months time. Then after that, I will focus on the next 6 months.

I need some ideas for a few weeks time when my divorce will probably be final. I need some ideas how to deal with this. This is going to be hard.

I hope I can come out the other side and be formidable too!
I feel like I have no willpower in looking at the pictures. So I've looked now, I won't be looking again.

Quote
I know I shouldn't have looked at the website TRUE
but I couldn't help it FALSE.
I knew it was going to make me upset TRUE
yet I still looked TRUE.

What's done is done. We're just dealing with mop-up here, figuring out what needs to be learned and moving forward. I submit to you that as long as you let yourself get away with lying to yourself as above, you will continue to make these unwise choices. Choices that have long-term consequences for your emotional well-being, which then spills over into your physical well-being.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I feel like I have no willpower in looking at the pictures. So I've looked now, I won't be looking again.
What are you going to do to avoid this next time?
You are going to meet friends from time to time who you aren't so close to. All close friends should know you will not entertain hearing the first syllable of his name.

Other people should be interrupted by the second syllable: "he is not my business. I do not accept news or gossip about him for my own sanity. I do NOT want to know".

If you interrupt them before hearing the news, you won't be triggered and you won't know to look into whatever is they were going to tell you.

When they do tell you news, come to this site first.

You have a weak spot. While working to correct it, also accept it. Protect it. Guard it vigilantly, because it's a back door to your health.
I do have a very weak spot. I'm still having such emotional days wondering how I'm supposed to go on. I know I go on for my son but I find it so hard coping with this. Maybe everything is just getting to me with the divorce and everything.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
You are going to meet friends from time to time who you aren't so close to. All close friends should know you will not entertain hearing the first syllable of his name.

Other people should be interrupted by the second syllable: "he is not my business. I do not accept news or gossip about him for my own sanity. I do NOT want to know".

If you interrupt them before hearing the news, you won't be triggered and you won't know to look into whatever is they were going to tell you.

When they do tell you news, come to this site first.


Thanks Indie I do have to do this. Thankfully the friend that gave me such news I don't see that often.

Another problem I have is my IM starting to make comments all the time about WH. Saying he doesn't care about me, she even butted her nose in and rang the real estate asking them how much his house is on the market for. She says she is doing it for me and she wants me to get as much money as possible from the settlement.

I did say to her that I can't believe you rang the real estate and that she shouldn't have done that.

I feel she's pushing too far in my business now. She's a good friend to me. I think I need to tell her to back off.
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I feel like I have no willpower in looking at the pictures. So I've looked now, I won't be looking again.
What are you going to do to avoid this next time?



I'm going to start doing what Indie says and tell them I don't want to hear anything about him and it's not my business. I'll have to walk away if need be I think.

Originally Posted by Neak
Quote
I know I shouldn't have looked at the website TRUE
but I couldn't help it FALSE.
I knew it was going to make me upset TRUE
yet I still looked TRUE.

What's done is done. We're just dealing with mop-up here, figuring out what needs to be learned and moving forward. I submit to you that as long as you let yourself get away with lying to yourself as above, you will continue to make these unwise choices. Choices that have long-term consequences for your emotional well-being, which then spills over into your physical well-being.


Hi Neak

You are right. I didn't have to look at the pictures. I am so weak in things like this. I feel I have no willpower grr!!

This is such a long road. I seriously just want to feel better now.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I feel like I have no willpower in looking at the pictures. So I've looked now, I won't be looking again.
What are you going to do to avoid this next time?



I'm going to start doing what Indie says and tell them I don't want to hear anything about him and it's not my business. I'll have to walk away if need be I think.


I actually had to put my fingers in my ears and sing while walking off on one occasion. They never tried it again!

You need a neutral person to be your IM. An IM gets to see such an ugly side during the A they end up hating the wayward if they are too close to the issue. I would try presenting a very strong front to the IM; you don't care, you don't want to know etc.. This means they don't feel they have to argue you into taking care of yourself. I'd also tell her that if she is getting too upset on your behalf, it will also affect you and someone else will need to do it.

I don't think her enquiring about the house price is a bad an idea though.
I laughed Indie about you singing with your fingers in your ears!

I may have to try that if I need to.

My IM did used to be very neutral but I do think she is getting too close to the situation. I will try and be more tougher with her if she says anything else.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I laughed Indie about you singing with your fingers in your ears!

I may have to try that if I need to.

My IM did used to be very neutral but I do think she is getting too close to the situation. I will try and be more tougher with her if she says anything else.

There is a thread here for IM's.
Has your IM read it?
No she hasn't I had forgotten about that Jedi. Thanks
It's not a matter of you being tougher with her. She's walking into the lion's den for you, and it's a tough job. Not everyone can do it. She needs plenty of appreciation from you, and lotsa love.

As for her IM duties, one of two things will need to happen.

1) She gets more information about being an IM - the IM thread is a fantastic resource - so she can successfully filter the spam

or

2) She steps down as IM

Either of these options is ok. There is no shame whatsoever in finding out that IM'ing isn't your bit of specialness. It also may be that all she needs is more info, and perhaps someone to talk to about her job who isn't you, and who understands. No matter what, a friend like her is more valuable than rubies! Nurture and cherish that.
I agree with Neak. If it turns out she isn't up to the IM job it will only be because she loves you a little too much. She's been a great friend to you.

Its either a case of she needs a bit more training in being distant to him or someone a bit less passionate can fill in instead.
Hi Neak and Indie

Yes you are right she is a good friend. She is doing a good job in being distant with him. It's the comments to me that she makes about him. I will have a chat with her about this and tell her that talking about him upsets me.

I am currently reading The Art Of War. I can't believe how much of this can relate to Plan B. Also I feel it relates greatly to exposing an affair.

I particularly like this point which I feel relates to snooping and exposing:

' Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move fall like a thunderbolt'.

I'm glad you're reading the book. Have you read the thread we have on here?
The Art of War by Sun Tzu
No I haven't read that BrainHurts. Thank you for the link :-)


Just caught up on this thread and was very disappointed to see so much of the focus is still on WH frown

By looking at that website and allowing your IM to tell you these things, etc, you have been breaking Plan B = no healing.

I had to repeatedly tell my first IM not to tell me things and basically STOP her when she started to tell me something. Eventually I had to change IMs.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I have been triggered. I saw my friend at the store the other day and she kindly told me my WH had a big real estate For Sale sign out the front of his place with photos on the sign.

All of your friends should be told that you don't want to know what your WH is up to or doing. And once they start to talk about him, stop them or get yourself out of the situation (leave the store).
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I have been triggered. I saw my friend at the store the other day and she kindly told me my WH had a big real estate For Sale sign out the front of his place with photos on the sign.

All of your friends should be told that you don't want to know what your WH is up to or doing. And once they start to talk about him, stop them or get yourself out of the situation (leave the store).


Hi Susie

You're right I am still too focused on what WH is doing. I will tell people I don't want to talk about him.

I'm starting to focus on myself and my future. I'm planning on doing an evening course next year to try and get more skills so I can have a different career path.

I'm not happy in my current job and the pay is not great either. The career path I choose will be better money and will allow me to support myself and my son better.

I need to start thinking of myself and my son and act like I won't be getting WH back. This is a possibility that he won't come back so now I need to focus on me and how I am going to live my life.

The course will take a year to do. After I have completed it I will look for a new job. Once I get a new job I am going to move out of this place and find a new house in a new area. Too many memories here.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I need to start thinking of myself and my son and act like I won't be getting WH back. This is a possibility that he won't come back so now I need to focus on me and how I am going to live my life.

I think that would be very wise. After the WS has been gone for 2 years, this is what Dr Harley advises.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Hi Susie

You're right I am still too focused on what WH is doing. I will tell people I don't want to talk about him.

I'm starting to focus on myself and my future. I'm planning on doing an evening course next year to try and get more skills so I can have a different career path.

I'm not happy in my current job and the pay is not great either. The career path I choose will be better money and will allow me to support myself and my son better.

I need to start thinking of myself and my son and act like I won't be getting WH back. This is a possibility that he won't come back so now I need to focus on me and how I am going to live my life.

The course will take a year to do. After I have completed it I will look for a new job. Once I get a new job I am going to move out of this place and find a new house in a new area. Too many memories here.


A* Plan Bing!

Why can't you do the course this year? What is it?

The course is in Bookkeeping. I can't do it this year as this semesters intake already started half year and now it's full. The next course starts in February. I should be able to enrol in October.

I could do it online but the online one takes 2 years and I'd rather do it in 1 year so I can find a job faster. And I think it would be better to do it in a classroom setting and be around new people and get me out of the house.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
The course is in Bookkeeping. I can't do it this year as this semesters intake already started half year and now it's full. The next course starts in February. I should be able to enrol in October.

I could do it online but the online one takes 2 years and I'd rather do it in 1 year so I can find a job faster. And I think it would be better to do it in a classroom setting and be around new people and get me out of the house.

Good thinking, RS. Since you are in Plan B, just realign your thoughts and keep your wayward husband out them as much as possible. And though it may seem like he is the happy one, I wouldn't trade places with him for all the tea in China. You are actually in a better place than he is. Keep following the program and doing what is right. You will be ok.
That sounds like a great plan and February will be here before you know it.
Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
Originally Posted by rocksolid
The course is in Bookkeeping. I can't do it this year as this semesters intake already started half year and now it's full. The next course starts in February. I should be able to enrol in October.

I could do it online but the online one takes 2 years and I'd rather do it in 1 year so I can find a job faster. And I think it would be better to do it in a classroom setting and be around new people and get me out of the house.

Good thinking, RS. Since you are in Plan B, just realign your thoughts and keep your wayward husband out them as much as possible. And though it may seem like he is the happy one, I wouldn't trade places with him for all the tea in China. You are actually in a better place than he is. Keep following the program and doing what is right. You will be ok.


Thanks Justthe3ofus. I know you're right that he is probably miserable. I don't want to be miserable anymore. I want to have a happy life. I'm looking forward to a new career eventually.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
That sounds like a great plan and February will be here before you know it.


Yes I hope so Indie. It's good to have something to look forward to for a change smile

Nothing much to report but I'm doing okay. I've changed my mind on the bookkeeping course and am going to do an accounting course as I feel my job options would be more varied.

Totally off topic is I feel quite sad about what's going on with my daughter. She is 18. She has always been headstrong and even though I know it's not a good idea to live with someone before marriage, she doesn't listen to a word and just does what she pleases. She's been living with her boyfriend who is 22 for about a year now.They have been together about 2 years in total.

She is a fully qualified hairdresser and has studied and worked hard to get where she is now since she was 15. He is a chef and works hard to.

He is the total opposite to her. He is very quiet and doesn't have much confidence. My daughter being a hairdresser is very outgoing and social. But they always seemed to complement each other.

They have always had a sort of relationship where she is the more dominant one I guess who likes to get her own way. And he basically does what she says and doesn't really stand up to her.

But he is so lovely and I really like him and he adores my daughter so much and would do anything for her. I think she is his first real serious girlfriend and just loves her so much. He's a very good character and he's just a nice sensitive boy.

So the other night he turns up at my house late at night worried about her that she hadn't come home and asked if I knew where she was. He then told me that she had broken up with him a week before and was now going out with her friends all the time. They are still living together at the moment but I think one of them is going to have to move out. They have a shared lease together and pay rent so I don't know how they will get out of it.

So I've since talked to my daughter to ask her what's going on and she's had this complete change of heart and doesn't want to go out with him anymore and told me that he's possesive and texts and rings all the time and doesn't trust her and always going on her facebook etc.

It's so strange it's like she's a completely different person. Only a few months ago they were so in love and excited about the future etc. I know she's only young and shouldn't be settling down but I just feel so sad. I feel so sad for him as he is obviously devastated. Maybe he needs someone a bit more mature perhaps?

I feel so sad for him as he loves her so much and he is ringing me asking if I've spoken to her and texting me. He's really desperate for another chance but I think she is done.

She came over tonight and I tried to talk to her and she completely flew off the handle and kept yelling at me saying I was taking sides and that I don't know anything and that it's her life and she's 18 and she wants to have fun. Then she stormed out the door.

I understand she's only 18 but I just feel so sorry for him. He genuinely is a nice boy and he's been so good for her. I fear she is hanging out with old girls that she used to work with and they are a bad influence. When she turned 18 back in April, she never wanted to go out and party and now all of a sudden she wants to do that.

I know I should let her be young and not want her to settle down, but on the other hand I just feel it's such a shame that she's throwing away a great thing.

Since they are still living together for the time being the advice I have given him to is to pull right back, don't text or phone her anymore, go out with his friends, give her space and let her see that he is not chasing her and to be confident and not clingy anymore. If she talks, be nice and don't start a fight. Pretty much Plan A I guess.

I'm really worried he may become depressed. He's so sensitive. I feel so bad for him. I've told him I'm here if he needs to talk.

I've tried to tell my daughter I'm here for her, but she always seems to get on the defensive with me and it ends up in an argument. I feel sad that when she was little we were so close but over the last few years we aren't close anymore. Do daughters ever come back to their mothers and be close when they're older? I feel like she thinks I'm annoying most of the time. She's normally quite nice (though she did put me through a terrible 3 years from 15 - 18). But lately she seems to have reverted back to her old ways of being rude all the time and argumentative.

I hate seeing people hurt and he is hurting. She seems to not care.

It makes me think back to when I had my A and how much I hurt my H. I will never put anyone through that ever again. It haunts me so much what I did.

Sorry it's so long. Sigh.

My divorce got adjourned as I thought it would. It's going to be final in a few weeks. It's been a hard time.

But I'm getting excited for Christmas and enjoying making some plans with my son.
We do lots of things like make gingerbread houses,decorate, bake cookies for Santa, watch Christmas movies and get out my little old record player and play old Christmas records.

I asked my daughter if she's met someone else and she says NO. I don't know if she's been talking to any other guys. Should I just mind my own business?

I feel like putting a VAR in her car to find out what is happening. Or am I just being nosey? I know I can't really do anything cause technically she is an adult. Even though the way she carries on is far from it!

He sounds like he has a lot to learn to be honest. Anyone who accepts a living-together situation is either desperate to be accepted (settling for an uncommitted person) or is the uncommitted person themself.

Not only is he being a doormat to a girl who doesn't want him but he is going to her mother for advice? He probably is a nice boy but there isn't much of the man about him. I wouldn't mourn the loss of a live-in relationship for your daughter anyway. They are toxic.

Next time your daughter says she wants to have fun; agree with her need to find the right person but tell her she can't date around while using someone for rent. Just say you disapprove of living together for convenience and leave it at that. You are not interested in talking her around either. If she doesn't agree with you fine.

She will find out for herself. I wouldn't entertain any more of the boy trying to get you to intervene and salvage this for him. Its not an affair, it is not exposure. It is a girl who has never committed to him not being committed - which is her right.

He can't get you to do his wooing. That isn't how grown ups behave.

And to add to Indie's response, yes, daughters can return to having a great relationship with their mothers, but it often takes a few years, some maturing on their part and lots of patience and grace on the mother's part.

When I was a teenager, I turned against my mother but regretted it deeply a few years later - when I was around twenty-one. I have loved her and admired her since those days.

My daughter did the same. My older friends who were mothers told me it was kind of "normal" for this to happen. I don't know if it happens to the majority of mother/daughter relationships but it doesn't seem unusual.

I would step out of her way for a while and don't offer advice unless she asks for it. Just be gracious and kind but it's her life now, and she's going to make mistakes. Hopefully, she'll learn and grow from those mistakes. But don't step in or give advice unless asked for.
I agree with Indiegirl. Plus, she is 18! She should be having fun and going out with a lot of different boys at her age. 18 is way too young to commit to a potential husband for the rest of her life. She has plenty of time to be an adult later and settle down. At her age she is still a child and however mature she may be she has a lot to learn about herself and what she wants in a man.
Originally Posted by msmcbeth
I agree with Indiegirl. Plus, she is 18! She should be having fun and going out with a lot of different boys at her age. 18 is way too young to commit to a potential husband for the rest of her life. She has plenty of time to be an adult later and settle down. At her age she is still a child and however mature she may be she has a lot to learn about herself and what she wants in a man.

Actually, people can commit to marriage and have a fulfilling marriage at that age.
Dr. Harley, the founder of this site did that and has spoken favorably of young marriages on the Radio Show.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I asked my daughter if she's met someone else and she says NO. I don't know if she's been talking to any other guys. Should I just mind my own business?

I feel like putting a VAR in her car to find out what is happening. Or am I just being nosey? I know I can't really do anything cause technically she is an adult. Even though the way she carries on is far from it!

Yes you are being nosey and should leave it alone. A VAR? Really?? Don't do that, rock. Agree with Indie's post...stop being the shoulder for this boy to cry on. There is nothing wrong with her breaking up and wanting to go out with her friends.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by msmcbeth
I agree with Indiegirl. Plus, she is 18! She should be having fun and going out with a lot of different boys at her age. 18 is way too young to commit to a potential husband for the rest of her life. She has plenty of time to be an adult later and settle down. At her age she is still a child and however mature she may be she has a lot to learn about herself and what she wants in a man.

Actually, people can commit to marriage and have a fulfilling marriage at that age.
Dr. Harley, the founder of this site did that and has spoken favorably of young marriages on the Radio Show.


I agree and I know I could have been a buyer at 18. I also agree with Dr H that young marriages mean you learn those good habits early and never have to unlearn bad independent habits.

Let's not forget though that he predicates all of that on the advice you should date a lot too.

Though I think it is fairly easy to decide to be a buyer yourself it is quite hard to diagnose whether your love interest is one.

The more sociable years are the college age years (even if you don't go to college) and this is when Rock's daughter is going to be finding out what she likes plus what really works.

Her current boyfriend is a die-hard renter making unsustainable decisions; Just agree with everything and hope for the best. We know that when men do this it makes women very unhappy because they are not seen as sincere.

He is also making life unpleasant for her by tattling to her mother and acting moody when she makes the decision to break up. This is nothing more than a selfish demand. A potential buyer would smile and move on, or just remain friends.

I think it is wonderful news this relationship is breaking up. There are no relationship skills being used here at all and the immaturity would just lead to misery if they got married.

Hopefully she has learned it is more trouble than it is worth to casually move in with someone and will do better next time.

You have all given me some good things to think about it. I do think you are right Indie that she will have to learn the hard way about living with someone that these things aren't a good idea. I can tell her all I want but what is it with teenagers these days? They don't listen, all their friends are doing it and it seems to be the norm unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by msmcbeth
I agree with Indiegirl. Plus, she is 18! She should be having fun and going out with a lot of different boys at her age. 18 is way too young to commit to a potential husband for the rest of her life. She has plenty of time to be an adult later and settle down. At her age she is still a child and however mature she may be she has a lot to learn about herself and what she wants in a man.

Actually, people can commit to marriage and have a fulfilling marriage at that age.
Dr. Harley, the founder of this site did that and has spoken favorably of young marriages on the Radio Show.


Hi Jedi, I didn't realise that Dr Harley married at a young age. That's a great testament that you can be a buyer at such a young age. I do know a few people who have been married just out of highschool and have been together the years.

Though I don't think my daughter is a buyer yet and that's okay I guess. I just felt quite sad for her BF.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by msmcbeth
I agree with Indiegirl. Plus, she is 18! She should be having fun and going out with a lot of different boys at her age. 18 is way too young to commit to a potential husband for the rest of her life. She has plenty of time to be an adult later and settle down. At her age she is still a child and however mature she may be she has a lot to learn about herself and what she wants in a man.

Actually, people can commit to marriage and have a fulfilling marriage at that age.
Dr. Harley, the founder of this site did that and has spoken favorably of young marriages on the Radio Show.


I agree and I know I could have been a buyer at 18. I also agree with Dr H that young marriages mean you learn those good habits early and never have to unlearn bad independent habits.

Let's not forget though that he predicates all of that on the advice you should date a lot too.

Though I think it is fairly easy to decide to be a buyer yourself it is quite hard to diagnose whether your love interest is one.

The more sociable years are the college age years (even if you don't go to college) and this is when Rock's daughter is going to be finding out what she likes plus what really works.

Her current boyfriend is a die-hard renter making unsustainable decisions; Just agree with everything and hope for the best. We know that when men do this it makes women very unhappy because they are not seen as sincere.

He is also making life unpleasant for her by tattling to her mother and acting moody when she makes the decision to break up. This is nothing more than a selfish demand. A potential buyer would smile and move on, or just remain friends.

I think it is wonderful news this relationship is breaking up. There are no relationship skills being used here at all and the immaturity would just lead to misery if they got married.

Hopefully she has learned it is more trouble than it is worth to casually move in with someone and will do better next time.


Yeah he does do everything she wants. I have told him in the past he needed to be more confident and stand up for himself.

It definately was a big mistake I think for them to move in together. She will probably think twice about doing that again now that she sees it isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Do you think trying to teach kids from a young age helps at all? Maybe I've left it too late to instill it into her. Or do they pretty much do what they want no matter what you say these days? I think in my daughters case she thinks I know nothing, and will make her own decisions no matter what I think. I guess that's the only way for her to learn though.

Originally Posted by black_raven
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I asked my daughter if she's met someone else and she says NO. I don't know if she's been talking to any other guys. Should I just mind my own business?

I feel like putting a VAR in her car to find out what is happening. Or am I just being nosey? I know I can't really do anything cause technically she is an adult. Even though the way she carries on is far from it!

Yes you are being nosey and should leave it alone. A VAR? Really?? Don't do that, rock. Agree with Indie's post...stop being the shoulder for this boy to cry on. There is nothing wrong with her breaking up and wanting to go out with her friends.


Hi black raven, Yeah that was quite nosey of me wasn't it. Don't worry I won't be installing any spyware lol. I guess I was kind of thinking out loud on that one.

I'm wondering if I should give my daughter some space after she stormed out the other night. I don't want to fight with her. Should I be the graceful one and tell her I'm sorry for interfering and that I'm here if she needs me?

Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
And to add to Indie's response, yes, daughters can return to having a great relationship with their mothers, but it often takes a few years, some maturing on their part and lots of patience and grace on the mother's part.

When I was a teenager, I turned against my mother but regretted it deeply a few years later - when I was around twenty-one. I have loved her and admired her since those days.

My daughter did the same. My older friends who were mothers told me it was kind of "normal" for this to happen. I don't know if it happens to the majority of mother/daughter relationships but it doesn't seem unusual.

I would step out of her way for a while and don't offer advice unless she asks for it. Just be gracious and kind but it's her life now, and she's going to make mistakes. Hopefully, she'll learn and grow from those mistakes. But don't step in or give advice unless asked for.


Thanks LWFH. That's reassuring for me to hear that it doesn't seem quite so unusual. Looking back I did give my own mother a difficult time in my teenage years too. My daughter seems to be a lot closer to her father, I think she thinks he's cooler than me grin

Do a lot of girls tend to be closer to their dads, and the sons tend to be closer to their mums? I definately feel closer to my son than I do to my daughter, but hopefully that will only be temporary. It's not for lack of trying on my part.
rock;

It is more than "Normal" for children to go through a phase where they think you know nothing. It is part of the growing experience.

And, all generations think the one that succeeds them is on the wrong track. This has been happening for ever. So it is part of YOUR parenting experience, as well.

Some of us learn much from our parents, but others of us have to learn things "the hard way". You can't protect her from everything, nor should you. Our success in life is not measured by whether we make mistakes, but how we handle them when we do. Most successful people have made MORE mistakes than others, but they don't let that stop them. (Try reading Abraham Lincoln's bio, for example!)
Thanks catwhit.

My daughter wants to now move back in with me. I've told her I don't have room anymore now that my son is into his own room. I don't want to disrupt him again and having her traipsing in and out at all hours and bringing friends through all the time like it used to be.

Is this wrong of me to not let her move back in? She has treated me so bad for a long time and I don't have the strength anymore.

I told her she can't just decide she's going to play grown up and then cancel on her lease when it's not fun anymore.

She has now informed me that she wants nothing to do with me anymore because I am clearly not there for her.

I'm sick of her poor me attitude.

It hurts so much for my own daughter to say she wants nothing to do with me anymore.

I remember my mother saying I really hurt her one time when she said 'Love you' as I stalked away from her lecture. My Parthian shot, scowling over my shoulder was "Well I don't love you"

I don't remember this at all. I worship my mother! I doubt I meant it even in the moment. I also never remember her being swayed by our temper tantrums. Her poker face stayed on and poor behaviour never got the reward of a reaction.

I think telling her you expect something from her in return for your care is dead on. One time my mother made me cook my own meals and buy my own groceries at 13 because I wasn't treating her well. Sure she was a bit perturbed when I enjoyed it, but poker faced she just said she'd had enough of a break and resumed normal business when she wanted to.

When I read Dr H's article on unconditional love being a bad thing, the penny dropped as to why she had been so persistent about that.

The critical thing is that YOU are now ready to enforce your boundaries. I suggest that you treat her like an adult. Which she is, albeit a young one. If she doesn't like it, too bad.

I predict she will come around. When she matures a bit.
I think it may be a good thing that she isnt living with the boyfriend anymore.
It's not good to live together like that especially starting at her age.

Originally Posted by catwhit
The critical thing is that YOU are now ready to enforce your boundaries. I suggest that you treat her like an adult. Which she is, albeit a young one. If she doesn't like it, too bad.

I predict she will come around. When she matures a bit.


Well she texted me and said a short 'sorry mum'.

I was gracious and wrote back 'that's okay I still love you'.

She turned up tonight and sat on the lounge, opened her laptop, did a bit of assignment and didn't say much. It was very awkward. I tried to make small talk and she did the same.

She then left saying 'I've got nowhere to live'. She does still live in the house with the BF, I think they don't know what they are doing at the moment.

I think I will probably let her back, but there will have to be rules and boundaries. I'm waiting to see if she comes to me about it, and letting her make all the effort.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I think it may be a good thing that she isnt living with the boyfriend anymore.
It's not good to live together like that especially starting at her age.


Hi Jedi

They are still living together but I don't think it is going to last very long. Yeah I agree they shouldn't have lived together. If she comes home, I plan on telling her I don't think she should live with any boys again unless she is married.
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I remember my mother saying I really hurt her one time when she said 'Love you' as I stalked away from her lecture. My Parthian shot, scowling over my shoulder was "Well I don't love you"

I don't remember this at all. I worship my mother! I doubt I meant it even in the moment. I also never remember her being swayed by our temper tantrums. Her poker face stayed on and poor behaviour never got the reward of a reaction.

I think telling her you expect something from her in return for your care is dead on. One time my mother made me cook my own meals and buy my own groceries at 13 because I wasn't treating her well. Sure she was a bit perturbed when I enjoyed it, but poker faced she just said she'd had enough of a break and resumed normal business when she wanted to.

When I read Dr H's article on unconditional love being a bad thing, the penny dropped as to why she had been so persistent about that.


Hi Indie,

It's funny you mentioned how you told your mum you didn't love her. I'm slowly regaining my memory of the awful things I did to my Mum and Dad in the teenage years. I was a horror. I remember slapping my dad in the face and then running down the hallway. And I gave my mum so much grief I can't believe she survived. I often joke to my mum that I was a perfect angel!

Indie, do you have a link to Dr Harley speaking about unconditional love?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8110_ul.html

See I bought into UC love for too long. I learned my mother wouldn't give it without holding up my end but it took too long to learn how to insist on care and conditions for myself.

I think it's slowly dawning on your daughter that you don't bite the hand that feeds you and that's good.

Your accountancy plans sound really exciting too.
Thanks for the link Indie. Lots of great information there.

My daughter is still being selfish and entitled but I am determined to not let it get to me.

She's still living with BF but she keeps saying they are going to move out. She seriously treats him like a piece of dirt the way she speaks to him. I think it would be best at this stage that they go their separate ways. Looks like it could be any day now if they just hurry up and make the decision.

If it comes down to it, I think I will have to let her move back in as I don't think she can find anywhere else. But if this happens there are going to be lots of changes and I won't be tolerating any more of her disrespect. Things are going to be a lot different and she will find out quickly I'm not putting up with any more nonsense.

We'll see how it goes over the next few weeks.
So update on my daughter. My daughter moved out of where her and BF were staying. I offered her to move in here and told her my rules.

She told me my rules were BS and stormed out of the house. She then moved in with a girlfriend for about a week.

Then I get a visit from her a week later and she tells me her and BF are back together and she's moved back in with him.

I seriously don't think this is a good idea and she knows but refuses to listen. Sigh. I guess she will have to learn the hard way.

Things are okay with me. I've been feeling really sad these last few weeks because my son told me him and WH have now moved into the new house that WH and OW have bought together. It's so hard to deal with this. It's not really something my son can keep from me because it's a big deal him going to a new house (when he's not with me). I did know this was coming but it's just so hard you know.

I'm feeling quite sad with Christmas approaching and wondering how to get through this time. But determined to make it wonderful and special for my little boy. We always do such fun things at Christmas.

I have a few weeks off over Christmas so if I can afford I think I might take my son away for a short trip maybe a week. Think I need some quiet time.

This may seem strange but I do not know if I am still married. As mentioned earlier, the first divorce hearing got adjourned because WH had not served papers correctly. My WH's 19 year old son, who I get along well with came to my house and had me re-sign the divorce papers which I did.

So his son gives me a copy of the new papers and it has a new court date 29th October. Either me or WH had to go as we have a child under 18. Obviously I didn't go.

So a few days after the set date, IM gets an email saying that WH forgot to go to hearing and wondering if I had turned up.

So because we both didn't go, I'm wondering if they will adjourn it again for a second time or if they will completely dismiss it.

I'm wondering if I should ring the court and find out or if they would tell me? Just wondering if I'm still married or not.

I never wanted any of this.

Or should I not worry about any of this and let WH deal with it when the crap hits the fan when OW finds out he didn't go?

I deliberately didn't go because I'm not the one who wanted this. I still love him so much.

I guess he made all this mess, let him deal with it yes?

It's kind of strange not knowing if you are still married or not.

I guess I'll know eventually if the court sends the final divorce statement.

I guess for now I'll still assume that I am married.







rocksolid,

You need to know if you are married or not.
This affects tax filings, life insurance, pensions etc.
You should have an attorney, even if it's some cheap guy just out of college with a runny nose or (preferably) an experienced one.

If you can't afford any attorney at all, then at a very minimum go to the Court Clerk office and ask the Clerk if the hearing took place and what the outcome was. You will need to get copies of any Divorce Decree for banks, IRS, etc.
Oh, as for your daughter.
She's a "renter" in a "renter" relationship and these fights are common in such relationships.

I think the best way you could help your daughter is by attending a Bible teaching Church and eventually inviting her to visit with you. She will then be exposed to many people who share the philosophy of marital commitment.
As for your husband and the OW buying a house together, that's really unwise because he is in a renter relationship while in the fog!
That's double danger!
They will inevitably break up and then some accountant or lawyer will tell him not to buy houses with women that he isn't married to!
Call the county law office and find out the status of the decree. The number might be there on the paperwork.
Originally Posted by Justthe3ofus
Call the county law office and find out the status of the decree. The number might be there on the paperwork.

Most Counties have the Case Status posted online.

LTL
So I rang the court this morning to find out the outcome. They told me the divorce was granted and will be final on the 30th November.

I broke down and can't stop crying. I never wanted this. I know he was pushed into doing this.

How do I get through this? I feel so broken and it feels so final. OW has got what she wanted. Me and him divorced.

I'm sick of feeling like this. I want to have a great 2015. I don't want another year of hurt.

I wish I wasn't in love and I wish I didn't care so much. I feel it would be easier if I hated him.

How do I stop caring??

What positives can I take out of being divorced?



Originally Posted by rocksolid
So I rang the court this morning to find out the outcome. They told me the divorce was granted and will be final on the 30th November.

I broke down and can't stop crying. I never wanted this. I know he was pushed into doing this.

How do I get through this? I feel so broken and it feels so final. OW has got what she wanted. Me and him divorced.

I'm sick of feeling like this. I want to have a great 2015. I don't want another year of hurt.

I wish I wasn't in love and I wish I didn't care so much. I feel it would be easier if I hated him.

How do I stop caring??

What positives can I take out of being divorced?

You have 30 days typically to Vacate that judgment without too much of a hassle.

If you don't even know the terms of the decision, or if you don't want the divorce, you Should do that immediately. Don't let the clock run out.

LTL
In Australia the laws are different. Anyone can get a divorce and there's basically nothing you can do. It's too late it can't be stopped it will go through.
Because we have been separated more than a year anyone can file divorce and get one. The only way they would stop one is in an extreme case where the child is being g abused or something.







Dr Harley seemed to think it was a good idea to divorce. He thought that would be the clock on WH's A to end?

Indie described it as a great Art of War move. Handing the OW what she thinks she wants when really it is a hollow victory for her.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
In Australia the laws are different. Anyone can get a divorce and there's basically nothing you can do. It's too late it can't be stopped it will go through.
Because we have been separated more than a year anyone can file divorce and get one. The only way they would stop one is in an extreme case where the child is being g abused or something.

Even if neither party, The Plaintiff or The Respondent showed up at the hearing?

LTL
Yep the laws suck here.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
What positives can I take out of being divorced?

You are out of marital limbo hell and can move forward rebuilding your life.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Dr Harley seemed to think it was a good idea to divorce. He thought that would be the clock on WH's A to end?

Indie described it as a great Art of War move. Handing the OW what she thinks she wants when really it is a hollow victory for her.


Exactly, but what blackraven said is more relevant. It's all about you now.

So where now?

Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Dr Harley seemed to think it was a good idea to divorce. He thought that would be the clock on WH's A to end?

Indie described it as a great Art of War move. Handing the OW what she thinks she wants when really it is a hollow victory for her.


Exactly, but what blackraven said is more relevant. It's all about you now.

So where now?


Thanks blackraven and indie. You are correct.

Today I went indoor rope climbing with my son. It was so much fun even though I was totally hopeless! I was so scared to come down from the ropes as you have to free fall down with just your harness. But I did it. And I went back up and did lots of other ropes really high. My son was awesome and could make it right up to the top. He is such a dare devil. I didn't go up very high as I'm not very strong but I still did it and had fun.

I didn't think of WH for the whole hour. Yay me!

I've decided that 2015 is going to be about me. I am going to do my accounts administration course which will be 2 nights a week. If I can afford, I am going to take on a creative writing course online. It's not too expensive to do the starter course 'Unlocking Creativity' to see if I like it.

I think the key is to totally fill up my life and be so busy that I don't have time to think about WH.

I really want to get to the point where I become indifferent. I do not want to hurt anymore.

This pain this last year has been unbearable and I can finally see that this pain is literally killing me and I can't feel this pain anymore.


My goal is to be over him by the end of 2015. Do you think this would be possible? I will always love him but I simply CANNOT hurt like this anymore. It is way too painful.

So even if one day he were to come back, I want to be able to think clearly and not be emotional.

I'm not wasting another year being miserable.

It's my time to shine. I want to find new activities. I want to be super busy.

I'm even thinking of starting fun runs, just short ones at first. I used to run in high school and might get back into it.

I even saw there was a triathlon in March for women. Very casual and just for fun and you even get a medal for participating. It's very short, just a 1 km run, 3km bike ride and 100 metres swim. I am totally unfit and not a good swimmer but think I could do it.

Jedi I know you are into triathlons, do you think I could get fit enough by March to enter something like this, considering only a short distance?

And keeping in mind it's really just a fun day so I guess it doesn't matter how fit you are! The only thing is I would have to buy a bicycle which I don't have. But that would be a good excuse to start riding too!

Oh even better the triathlon is to raise money for Cancer too smile

I've also started looking at things online to do with my son over the Christmas holidays. We are going to go ice skating and we are going to learn indoor snow boarding.

I'm ready to try new things and new challenges.

I will be open to lots of suggestions to fill up my life!

Yes, you can prepare for the race by March.
The important step is to have a training program to follow.
The local YMCA may be have a group training program available that you can participate in.
Yes, by March you will be able to do this. You have four months to work on getting ready.

Congratulations on your getting your life and your physical fitness back.
That's good to know Jedi. I will look into what I can do. It felt good to do some exercise on the ropes yesterday.
Thanks I'mNotReady2Quit. It does feel good to have a bit of a plan and things to look forward to.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
That's good to know Jedi. I will look into what I can do. It felt good to do some exercise on the ropes yesterday.

Listen, you will need to exercise even when you don't feel good enough to.
You need to use your mind to FORCE your body to move. The body will plead fatigue. It may threaten to vomit. It may say it is sore.

You need to FORCE it to move and submit to your mind.

Jack LeLane (you can google him if you aren't familiar with him) performed amazing superman-like feats. He towed 60 some odd boats full of people to Alcatraz (swimming) on his birthday.

He said in an interview that he literally yells at his muscles during his daily 2 hour exercise regimen.
The main thing is that you haye decided to heal smile
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
That's good to know Jedi. I will look into what I can do. It felt good to do some exercise on the ropes yesterday.

Listen, you will need to exercise even when you don't feel good enough to.
You need to use your mind to FORCE your body to move. The body will plead fatigue. It may threaten to vomit. It may say it is sore.

You need to FORCE it to move and submit to your mind.

Jack LeLane (you can google him if you aren't familiar with him) performed amazing superman-like feats. He towed 60 some odd boats full of people to Alcatraz (swimming) on his birthday.

He said in an interview that he literally yells at his muscles during his daily 2 hour exercise regimen.



Wow I have never heard of him. I just googled him and was reading about all his amazing achievements. He was a machine for sure!! Boats and handcuffs amazing! It's interesting reading about all his nutrition info too.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
The main thing is that you haye decided to heal smile


I think I'm finally turning a corner in my life. I'm starting to not care too much about him anymore. I've seriously just had enough. I'm glad I feel like this. I WANT to feel like this because it can stop me being upset and it helps me to think clearer when I've taken the emotion out of the picture.

I don't know why this change in me but I think because it's been so long now of putting up with such bad treatment that I just cannot do it anymore. I don't want another bad year. I'm ready to take my life back.

So glad I am reaching that point. I can't believe I have even reached this point. I never thought I would but am so glad it is happening. I seriously don't want to spend another year hurting and thinking about him and OW.

I think there just comes a time when you think Enough Is Enough and I deserve better.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
That's good to know Jedi. I will look into what I can do. It felt good to do some exercise on the ropes yesterday.

Listen, you will need to exercise even when you don't feel good enough to.
You need to use your mind to FORCE your body to move. The body will plead fatigue. It may threaten to vomit. It may say it is sore.

You need to FORCE it to move and submit to your mind.

Jack LeLane (you can google him if you aren't familiar with him) performed amazing superman-like feats. He towed 60 some odd boats full of people to Alcatraz (swimming) on his birthday.

He said in an interview that he literally yells at his muscles during his daily 2 hour exercise regimen.

Agree that exercise is SUPER important in Plan B/D. I think I have mentioned it on this thread at least once smile
Jack LeLane was actuAlly one of my instructors at the Jedi Training Academy. He had already passed away but his ghost was still alive and part of the Force.
He sounds so inspirational. I'm going to learn more about him. Thanks Jedi.

Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by rocksolid
That's good to know Jedi. I will look into what I can do. It felt good to do some exercise on the ropes yesterday.

Listen, you will need to exercise even when you don't feel good enough to.
You need to use your mind to FORCE your body to move. The body will plead fatigue. It may threaten to vomit. It may say it is sore.

You need to FORCE it to move and submit to your mind.

Jack LeLane (you can google him if you aren't familiar with him) performed amazing superman-like feats. He towed 60 some odd boats full of people to Alcatraz (swimming) on his birthday.

He said in an interview that he literally yells at his muscles during his daily 2 hour exercise regimen.

Agree that exercise is SUPER important in Plan B/D. I think I have mentioned it on this thread at least once smile



Yes I think you probably have mentioned exercise too Susie. Agree very important.
I'm gonna check this post in March, see how you ran!!
Well I've been quite busy trying to get my life back on track. I finally get Plan B. For so long I would pray at night to God to please bring my husband home. Now I pray for strength and for help to get through this. I'm at the point in my life where I realise the importance of healing.

It's like a big 'ahhhh' moment when you finally get the importance of Plan B.

I realise I can't go through this hurt anymore. I have been hurt beyond words by the divorce and WH buying a house with OW. Everytime I think of it I still cry and get upset because of all the false promises he made me.

I feel like a fool for believing anything that he said. It wasn't followed up with actions and that really hurts.

I still love him so much but I don't want to feel this pain anymore.

I do still feel the pain immensely, but I want to heal from it.

I've decided to make the best of my life and appreciate what I do have. I have a wonderful son who is the centre of my life and makes me smile every day. He is doing wonderful at school and his sporting activities. WH chooses to miss out on a lot of his sporting activities and school events because OW won't allow him to go because of me being there. He is the one missing out on his successes and achievements because of choices that he has made. Maybe one day he will see this, who knows.

In the meantime I will be there at every school event, every carnival and make sure he has at least one parent who is supportive. I am so proud of my boy and I will never miss a minute. I'll be the parent clapping the loudest and smiling the biggest and having the biggest amount of pride in my heart, thinking 'that's my boy'.

We have so much fun together too. I really appreciate the time I have with him. We watch movies, we jump on the trampoline all the time, we play around, we play games, we bake, we do homework, we read, we go bike riding, we watch movies and we laugh. He's the light in my life and I don't know what I would do without him.

It would be wonderful to be a family with WH and share our happy times. But while he chooses another woman over our family this won't happen. So I will be my son's rock and give him the happiest times I can.

My son often says he doesn't care that our house is small and we don't have much. Because what is even more important is that we have LOVE and LAUGHTER in our house. And that's what counts.

I have good friends who care about me. They have seen me fall and pick me up from the ground. They have laughed with me and cried with me.

I have started my bookeeping course this week online. It looks really hard but I'm determined to do it and make something better of my life.

My son and I want to travel again one day. We want to go to Finland.

I am going to 2 concerts next month with friends which I am looking forward to.

I started doing laps at the local swimming pool last week. I was scared and self conscious about what people would think and wondering if they were staring at me. But I remembered Indie's saying What would you do if you were not afraid? And I jumped in and swam.

I am starting a women's fitness class next week once a week at the local church that my friend told me about.

I am slowly turning my life around and trying to heal the best I can and being thankful for what I have.







What a wonderful update. I'm so glad you finally understand plan B. You are showing all the growth and strength in Plan B and will continue to heal if you stay the course.
ROCK star!!!!!!



Thankyou Indie and Brainhurts. I feel so blessed that I have received so much support in this journey. It's ironic really that WH was the one that introduced me to this site in the first place. I was the one who resisted MB to start with and now he is the one who goes against it all.

I've learned so much. I think MB is saving my life.
The reality of the hurt and hell I have been through these past 2 years is taking its toll on me. I am starting to hate WXH. Is this a normal occurrence? I thought Plan B was supposed to put your love to sleep and you weren't to feel anything anymore? I love him so much but find myself getting more and more pissed off every day at the hell he has made my life and ripped my heart out time and time again. Today I hate him so much. I think he is a coward and he's not the man I used to know.
Are you having a dip? That can happen for a long time afterwards and it's harder with children.

You also went through a great deal of trauma and distress after d-day : there's bound to be some resentment.

What are you doing for yourself today?

Yes I think so Indie. All this anger has been building up this past week. I do feel like I have gone to hell and back.

Some days I'm coping, others not quite as much.

I'm going out to dinner tomorrow night with girlfriends which will be great as they laugh a lot and usually the whole restaurant can hear us!

I'm going to see Ed Sheeran next week with a girlfriend and I am super excited.

I bought all new hair things and headbands for my hair to make myself prettier and have been painting my nails more.

Just down this week and angry.

I do feel I'm getting better at working through the dips.

I really want to get to the point where I couldn't care less about him anymore.

I'm determined to get to that place it's just taking a long time.

OK, a few things:

Do you hear anything about him?

Do you let yourself think about him for any length of time?

What are your timescales at this point? Are you divorced/open to recovery and how long for?

When you have a dip at this stage it feels worse than earlier dips because of the contrast to an ordinary day where you feel OK.

I think about him way too often. I don't hear anything about him.

I try not to think about him. Most days I can get by but there are still tears and anger.

I saw OW in her car the other week at the shop and that upset me. I've filled that hole by now shopping further away.

Yes we are divorced. We've been divorced since the end of November.

I am still open for recovery but I don't know how I will feel within the next 6 - 12 months.

I want to be nearly healed within the next 6 months. In that 6 months I want to not think about him much anymore. Within 12 months I would like to be fully healed.

I guess I would probably wait 2 years since the divorce date since I propped it up for so long. But I may not wait that long, depending on how I feel over the next 6 - 12 months.

The most important thing for me right now is healing so I don't feel like this anymore and trying to forget the waywards.

I am looking forward to feeling better and not being sad anymore. I think you're right it does feel worse after I've had OKAY days.

I do have alot of resentment built up.

I am trying so hard really to feel better.
I guess a lot of hurt is coming from the way he divorced me so coldly to satisfy OW. Along with buying the house.

It only happened the end of last year so it's still painful.

It sounds to me like you have a lot of triggers and could benefit from ADs.

Is your home triggering you? How do you feel about where you live? It sounds too close to OW. The recent sighting explains your current mood.

You really should try to limit his presence in your mind.

What do you do when you start thinking about him? Do you use any distractions? There's a thread about triggers and resetting thought paths around here somewhere but I found a combination of elastic band/books/movies adequate.
My home is owned by WH and his father and I pay them rent. WH always used to come here when he and OW were together. So I guess the house is one big trigger. I can't afford to move right now as the rent I'm paying is the cheapest you can find.

That's why I'm doing the bookeeping course so I can find a better job and find somewhere else to live that I can afford.

I do play inspirational upbeat music when I think of him to try and stop myself but I also let the tears come and just go with it. After I cry I pick myself up and continue on.

I'm getting pretty good at talking myself out of thinking about him.

Another trigger is my DD and WH's daughter have always been close and still close. My DD has been asked to be bridesmaid at her wedding. That triggers me because WH's daughter hates me now because me and WH went behind OW's back. No one cared and they all blamed me even though I was his wife.

So I guess I feel triggered knowing my daughter will be at the wedding and WH and OW will be there. It's not for 18 months or so so maybe I won't give one iota by then. I hope I don't.

I know in my heart I can heal over time I just want it to happen yesterday.





Originally Posted by rocksolid
The reality of the hurt and hell I have been through these past 2 years is taking its toll on me. I am starting to hate WXH. Is this a normal occurrence?

I am sorry, RS, but it sounds to me like you are dwelling instead of focusing on moving your life forward without your ex (which is what Plan B is ALL about!)

My ex was a serial cheater who tricked me into 3 years of a false recovery....and post divorce I have gone thru YEARS (2+) of getting nasty emails from his OW who tries to bait me into fights, being dragged in and out of court and my kids going thru crazy drama.

And I don't hate him and I don't really care about him or what he is doing.

My life is full of so many positive things that I don't really have time to dwell on the negative. I know that doesn't sound possible and maybe even corny but it is the complete truth. I literally fall into bed completely exhausted at the end of the day, between projects around the house, cooking, activities with kids, walking the dogs, posting/reading MB (haha) and exercise etc.

I have asked you before about self-care which is really important and at that time it didn't sound like you were doing very much in the way of physical activity. I exercise twice a day and eat extremely well, and I can't emphasize enough how important I think this is to overall health and well-being.

So.....

How are you eating?
How are you sleeping?
Are you exercising daily?
What do you do for fun regularly?
What types of goals do you have for yourself?
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I thought Plan B was supposed to put your love to sleep and you weren't to feel anything anymore? I love him so much but find myself getting more and more pissed off every day at the hell he has made my life and ripped my heart out time and time again.

The point of Plan B is that you should avoid these types of thoughts altogether. Don't think about WH and the possiblity of recovery.

Take it off the table completely and move your life forward as if he doesn't exist.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
My home is owned by WH and his father and I pay them rent. WH always used to come here when he and OW were together. So I guess the house is one big trigger. I can't afford to move right now as the rent I'm paying is the cheapest you can find.

That's why I'm doing the bookeeping course so I can find a better job and find somewhere else to live that I can afford.


Rock, that is going to take forever! What would you do if you were given notice to leave? Would there be absolutely nowhere else you could afford?

Originally Posted by rocksolid
My home is owned by WH and his father and I pay them rent. WH always used to come here when he and OW were together. So I guess the house is one big trigger. I can't afford to move right now as the rent I'm paying is the cheapest you can find.

That's why I'm doing the bookeeping course so I can find a better job and find somewhere else to live that I can afford.

I do play inspirational upbeat music when I think of him to try and stop myself but I also let the tears come and just go with it. After I cry I pick myself up and continue on.

I'm getting pretty good at talking myself out of thinking about him.


Music wouldn't have cut it for me because you're still free to continue thinking. Nor would talking myself out of it. You only get a minute to redirect your thoughts. Get up and do something that takes up all of your focus.

Originally Posted by SusieQ
I am sorry, RS, but it sounds to me like you are dwelling instead of focusing on moving your life forward without your ex (which is what Plan B is ALL about!)

I have asked you before about self-care which is really important and at that time it didn't sound like you were doing very much in the way of physical activity. I exercise twice a day and eat extremely well, and I can't emphasize enough how important I think this is to overall health and well-being.

So.....

How are you eating?
How are you sleeping?
Are you exercising daily?
What do you do for fun regularly?
What types of goals do you have for yourself?

x2




[/quote]

Rock, that is going to take forever! What would you do if you were given notice to leave? Would there be absolutely nowhere else you could afford?


I don't really know what I would do. I have looked at the current market and I am seriously paying less rent than what I should be. I do need another room as my daughter has moved back in, so finding somewhere with an extra room well that would be even more money.

Even somewhere with the same amount rooms I have would still be more expensive.

I just have to deal with the living situation for now till I make more money. It is quite homely, only small and my son and I have fun and enjoy each other.

I just have to be even stricter in not going anywhere I can run into WH and OW. I've done quite well, the sighting was the first in a very long time.








Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I thought Plan B was supposed to put your love to sleep and you weren't to feel anything anymore? I love him so much but find myself getting more and more pissed off every day at the hell he has made my life and ripped my heart out time and time again.

The point of Plan B is that you should avoid these types of thoughts altogether. Don't think about WH and the possiblity of recovery.

Take it off the table completely and move your life forward as if he doesn't exist.



Yep Susie I'm trying really hard to do that. I've had a good weekend with my son and haven't really thought about WH.

I've been eating healthier and given up coke soft drink altogether which I feel better for. I was drinking it a lot but have stopped.

I went for a long walk on the weekend with my son and he rode his bike. I have also been doing a few runs around the neighbourhood. I feel better when I do that.

I'm busy studying, I have lots of friends and I am going to a concert this week and next week. I also went out to dinner with some friends last week. My son and I have a few movies planned over the next few weeks too.

I am trying to fill up my life with activities and keep busy.

I have also met some new friends online from overseas and been chatting to them so I'm feeling pretty good this week.

I really want to turn my life around and I feel I'm on the right track.

I guess last week I was having a bad week. I will pick myself up and work through the down times.

RS, I have been looking at your thread, trying to figure out why you describe yourself as still being so hurt and in pain (it doesn't make sense for me given your timeline and your PB) and I think I see the answer:

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Dr Harley seemed to think it was a good idea to divorce. He thought that would be the clock on WH's A to end?

Indie described it as a great Art of War move. Handing the OW what she thinks she wants when really it is a hollow victory for her.

I think you are still waiting for your ex WH to come back and that you have been holding on to false hope that the divorce would finally break ex WH and OW up.

Dr Harley also told me that my ex WH would probably not even end up marrying OW4. They fight horribly and have so many problems, I hardly know where to begin. In a court-ordered counseling session, my ex basically complained and whined the entire time (when we are supposed to be discussing parenting issues) about how hard and stressful his relationship w/OW4 is.

Well, they did end up getting married and are even expecting a child. I see many waywards who have a death grip and miserable affairages lasting years and years here on the forums all the time.

RS, your ex has been gone for a VERY LONG time, and even if they did break up, he's not coming back. He's been wayward for so long and so much damage has been done that you don't want him back anyway.

I'm sorry and I know it probably hurt to hear this, but once you do let ex WH go, you will see your life turn around.


Yes Susie that really hurt to hear that. I'm not upset with you it just made me really sad frown

I guess you are right. I just don't understand though. If a wayward is so miserable and complain all the time why they hell would they marry the OW if they are so miserable? Why would they last years and years and years?

I do have to let him go I know. I've just been kidding myself all this time.

I don't know how to let go. I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life.

You know what I probably needed to hear that. It may just be the kick up the butt I need.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
You know what I probably needed to hear that. It may just be the kick up the butt I need.
rs you deserve so much better and once you get divorced and heal and move on you have no idea the opportunities to come your way. Heal and stay the course and soon you will look back and see how much you've grown. Don't stop your growth.
Thanks BH. I am divorced. It's the healing that's not happening. Some days I'm positive and okay. Other days I take 2 steps back.
Don't you think moving out of the house the ex owns would help tremendously?

Brainstorm and look around for other options that move you out of there. You need a clean break much more than you need this particular cheap rent. Find another cheap rental.
There are no other cheap rentals. It's not possible right now.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
You know what I probably needed to hear that. It may just be the kick up the butt I need.


I thought you would come to the realisation on your own that he doesn't have what it takes to recover a marriage.

Yes, you had an affair, but typically a husband's reaction to that is either a) divorce b) Plan A hero or at the very least c) doormat-ville.

Yours is the only case I've ever heard of where he thought this was a brilliant opportunity to juggle women. His first post here was repugnant. Even his username was repellently sexist.

I think your own repentant feelings kind of blind you to how sucky he was during your A.

Someone with his history isn't to be counted on or measured using logic. He could well decide to stay with an OW he could cheat on or move into another dysfunctional relationship when it goes sour. But to come up with enough moxy to live up to the Plan B letter standards?

It's possible, but I wouldn't count on it.

Yeah it has been a long painful road for me Indie where I'm still needing kicks up the butt to show me the facts.

Ugghhh. I'm so desperate to heal and I wish I was over all this by now.

I learned from my mistakes and fought the hard battle to turn my life around and get my marriage back on track and never put him through that hurt ever again but I guess I lost the battle.


He was so for MB and bought all the books and learning it and asking me to read them. And then it all flew out the window.

Don't worry Indie I'm not counting on anything anymore.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
He was so for MB and bought all the books and learning it and asking me to read them. And then it all flew out the window.
.


He was only ever interested in the needs meeting part. He can't handle any kind of rough patch in which his needs are not met. So if you got sick you'd be screwed.

Yep that's correct. He got her so he wouldn't feel lonely.

I know I have a lot of guilt over what I did and blame myself for everything that has happened.

I know I played a part in the beginning but not the ending.

Originally Posted by rocksolid
I don't know how to let go. I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life.

You aren't alone, though. You have two children that need you to pull yourself together and be a good role model for them. Especially your son who has a wayward father.

That alone makes it easy, for me.

Make your kids your priority, set a lot of good goals for yourself that have nothing to do with ex WH, and the rest of it will fall into place.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Yep that's correct. He got her so he wouldn't feel lonely.

I know I have a lot of guilt over what I did and blame myself for everything that has happened.

I know I played a part in the beginning but not the ending.

I would encourage you to stop posting about stuff like this. You are past this now.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
How are you eating?
How are you sleeping?
Are you exercising daily?
What do you do for fun regularly?
What types of goals do you have for yourself?

Can you post specific answers to questions like these on a regular basis - update us on the progress you are making?

I personally use a bullet journal (check it out on Youtube) and have a list of things to do every single day.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I don't know how to let go. I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life.

You aren't alone, though. You have two children that need you to pull yourself together and be a good role model for them. Especially your son who has a wayward father.

That alone makes it easy, for me.

Make your kids your priority, set a lot of good goals for yourself that have nothing to do with ex WH, and the rest of it will fall into place.

I posted on another thread about reaching out to Dr Harley about an issue regarding DD19.

RS, Dr Harley told me that most people he talks to in the end stages of their life regret not having a better relationship with their kids. Not making more money or having traveled more, etc.

Start focusing on making life awesome for your kids, will be a good start for you to move forward and letting the old part of your life go.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by SusieQ
How are you eating?
How are you sleeping?
Are you exercising daily?
What do you do for fun regularly?
What types of goals do you have for yourself?

Can you post specific answers to questions like these on a regular basis - update us on the progress you are making?

I personally use a bullet journal (check it out on Youtube) and have a list of things to do every single day.

We can make this fun and other Plan B/Ders can post to you about what they are doing too, if you'd like smile
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I don't know how to let go. I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life.

You aren't alone, though. You have two children that need you to pull yourself together and be a good role model for them. Especially your son who has a wayward father.

That alone makes it easy, for me.

Make your kids your priority, set a lot of good goals for yourself that have nothing to do with ex WH, and the rest of it will fall into place.



Good advice Susie thanks. I do pull myself together for my son and he doesn't see me sad anymore. I give him so much love and attention and quality time together. We're each others rocks and very close. He feels very secure with me.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by SusieQ
How are you eating?
How are you sleeping?
Are you exercising daily?
What do you do for fun regularly?
What types of goals do you have for yourself?

Can you post specific answers to questions like these on a regular basis - update us on the progress you are making?

I personally use a bullet journal (check it out on Youtube) and have a list of things to do every single day.


Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by SusieQ
How are you eating?
How are you sleeping?
Are you exercising daily?
What do you do for fun regularly?
What types of goals do you have for yourself?

Can you post specific answers to questions like these on a regular basis - update us on the progress you are making?

I personally use a bullet journal (check it out on Youtube) and have a list of things to do every single day.

We can make this fun and other Plan B/Ders can post to you about what they are doing too, if you'd like smile


I'm always happy to hear from other Plan B'ers on how they cope and what they do.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I don't know how to let go. I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life.

You aren't alone, though. You have two children that need you to pull yourself together and be a good role model for them. Especially your son who has a wayward father.

That alone makes it easy, for me.

Make your kids your priority, set a lot of good goals for yourself that have nothing to do with ex WH, and the rest of it will fall into place.

I posted on another thread about reaching out to Dr Harley about an issue regarding DD19.

RS, Dr Harley told me that most people he talks to in the end stages of their life regret not having a better relationship with their kids. Not making more money or having traveled more, etc.

Start focusing on making life awesome for your kids, will be a good start for you to move forward and letting the old part of your life go.



I do focus on my relationship with my son and it's very close. I should focus that on my DD too and get the closeness back with her. It's getting better but not as close as I'd like. We had a tough time for a while and she's very headstrong. I'll have to think of more ways I can spend time with her. She's very caught up in her life and boys etc. She did babysit my son last week which was nice.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I don't know how to let go. I don't want to be alone for the rest of my life.

You aren't alone, though. You have two children that need you to pull yourself together and be a good role model for them. Especially your son who has a wayward father.

That alone makes it easy, for me.

Make your kids your priority, set a lot of good goals for yourself that have nothing to do with ex WH, and the rest of it will fall into place.



Good advice Susie thanks. I do pull myself together for my son and he doesn't see me sad anymore. I give him so much love and attention and quality time together. We're each others rocks and very close. He feels very secure with me.

That's great.

But I don't doubt for one second that your children are aware of the fact that you have been depressed and hoping for ex-WH to come back. This isn't good for them.

If you continue to feel this way, I would also recommend ADs. But if you exercise daily, there is a good chance you won't need them.
Yeah DS has probably noticed but he sees me more of a fun mum now which is great. I highly doubt DD notices she's so wrapped up in her own world. She's not the kind of person who ever asks if I'm okay or what's wrong.

Bit sad really. I know if something bad happenned to me she would be upset but she doesn't really seem to care about my life.

I may reconsider the AD's again down the track if it doesn't improve. I'd like to keep trying the exercising for now smile

Originally Posted by rocksolid
Yeah DS has probably noticed but he sees me more of a fun mum now which is great. I highly doubt DD notices she's so wrapped up in her own world. She's not the kind of person who ever asks if I'm okay or what's wrong.

Bit sad really. I know if something bad happenned to me she would be upset but she doesn't really seem to care about my life.

That's not sad, it's very normal for teenaged- early 20s girls.

Quote
I may reconsider the AD's again down the track if it doesn't improve. I'd like to keep trying the exercising for now smile

What are you doing for exercise? And what is the frequency? How consistent are you being?

Hi Susie

I've only been walking and running. Probably only a couple of times a week at the moment.

The eating is okay mainly healthy.
How are you feeling today?

I'm feeling amazing Indie! My friend and I partied on the dance floor at Ed Sheeran last night. Best night ever!!
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm feeling amazing Indie! My friend and I partied on the dance floor at Ed Sheeran last night. Best night ever!!
How fun!! I like Ed Sheeran's music. Good for you.
I thought so laugh

Hey Indie and BrainHurts

Yep he's very talented!! You seen him too Indie?

No would like to though..

Can you run yet?
Update. I've now been divorced for 8 months. It's been a long hard road in fighting for my marriage for the past 3 years or so. I didn't win the battle. I fought so hard but my WXH is in deep with OW and I guess will never get out. I now just believe him to be one big coward.

They are still living together unmarried after 3 years.

I don't know how I feel about him anymore. Most days I don't even think about him anymore. The occasional time I do think about him I just feel feelings of disgust and hate.

I'm still doing my course which is going well.


For the past month I have been dating a lovely man who is just beautiful and we get on really well. It's only very early days but we really enjoy each others company and he makes me laugh.

I never even thought I was ready to date again. But a friend introduced us and we just clicked. And now I realise I AM ready for another relationship. I realised what I've been missing. I'm glad that I waited until I was divorced.

I am really happy. Thank you everyone who has posted on my thread. Will keep you updated.

That's so nice.

Your ex was a huge nightmare with a nightmare family to boot. I don't think moving on is a mistake.

If you really like this guy I'd look up all you can on Dr Hs advice for remarriage as a mother and blended families as this can affect your dating decisions. Maybe even drop him a line.
Congratulations.

Are you still in Plan B with your WXH?
At this point, the best advice i can offer is to avoid sexual relations with this man. Dr. Harley has explained on his Radio Show that based on his observation of counseling more than 50,000 couples that women sometimes after divorce get swept away by a new romantic interest and kind of allow the man to take over. This is particularly concerning when there are young children in the home but since your son does not live with you that aspect may not be a main issue. However, the scenario is exasperated if the couple have sex because the female develops an emotional bond and does not always rationally consider all aspects of the relationship.

Throughout my personal observations on the forum, it seems that after a woman is divorced they quickly jump into dating, often immediately after divorce. Harley does not advocate this but it seems their emotional need to be loved by a man trumps his cautions. Men on the otherhand seem to delay dating while getting their lives in order.
Jedi it sounds like this is a general recollection, but do you have any links or remember a specific show? I just find some of these points very interesting.

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
women sometimes after divorce get swept away by a new romantic interest and kind of allow the man to take over.


Do you mean the new husband takes over from the ex? There's no contact with exes anyway as I understand it. I'm not sure how a boyfriend could take over a household he wasn't part of.

Or do you mean he takes over the woman so she has no say in decisions? Surely PoJA would prevent that. If he wasn't living with her decisions would be limited to restaurants anyway.

One of the reason I'm so interested is I certainly see a lot of problems with mum's boyfriends in schools, theyre much more visible issues than dads girlfriends, because custody tends to be with mum. But these tend to be live in boyfriends. I'd also bet my hat that lots are the OM.

Sorry to TJ Rock!

This is just an anecdote that has no basis in fact. Women are slightly less likely to remarry after divorce (at least in the population over 45).

https://www.nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/19345-why-are-men-more-lik

Also an anecdote that may or may not have any basis in fact: it seems that it's harder to divorce a WH than a WW. The WH's I've seen on this board rarely file for divorce and when they do, they drag out the divorce proceedings or don't lift a finger to settle anything. Many women have been in Plan B for a year or more by the time the ink is dry. For many women, they wait so long to date anyway, its not like they go straight from a regular marriage to a new boyfriend right away, but have been alone for a considerable period of time before they date-sometimes up to 5 or 6 years.

That said, it is tempting to go after the first positive attention you receive in that situation, especially when your last recollection of a romantic partner was someone who was cheating on you, abusing you and gaslighting you. So, yes, proceed with caution, especially if you have kids.


I've heard Dr Harley say something similar to that therapist about a woman's support network. He says single women do really well and thrive typically. But I don't know about whether they typically decide to do that.

I know quite a few older ladies who are determined and permanent non-daters and very happy. However they did have some unhappy dating experiences soon after divorce. The really typically obvious user type men. It's well worth reiterating and you can see how it could happen without MB advice.


Even with MB advice, considering new actions and taking new actions are two different things!
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Jedi it sounds like this is a general recollection, but do you have any links or remember a specific show? I just find some of these points very interesting.

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
women sometimes after divorce get swept away by a new romantic interest and kind of allow the man to take over.


Do you mean the new husband takes over from the ex? There's no contact with exes anyway as I understand it. I'm not sure how a boyfriend could take over a household he wasn't part of.

Or do you mean he takes over the woman so she has no say in decisions? Surely PoJA would prevent that. If he wasn't living with her decisions would be limited to restaurants anyway.

One of the reason I'm so interested is I certainly see a lot of problems with mum's boyfriends in schools, theyre much more visible issues than dads girlfriends, because custody tends to be with mum. But these tend to be live in boyfriends. I'd also bet my hat that lots are the OM.

Sorry to TJ Rock!

Regarding the new boyfriend kind of taking over, HArley addressed this when i was on his radio show around Dec 2012.
Someone may be able to post a link to the show.
On the show, Harley explains this is one of the main concerns he has with single moms dating after divorce.
Also, he often tells single moms to wait until the kids are grown before remarriage. He told poster Jennifer Voyager this also.
Thanks Jedi smile
Here it is.

Radio Clip of Jedi_Knight's Show About Dating After Divorce
Segment #2
Segment #3
BH, you're such a legend!
Originally Posted by indiegirl
BH, you're such a legend!
blush
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

I think Dr. Harley's exact advice to single moms requires a bit of finesse for each individual situation. In general I think his big concern is to not introduce a man to the children's lives because he will tend to take over. The typical pattern is the Renter pattern where the guy moves in with no commitment, which is extremely harmful to children and extraordinarily risky.

BTW, dating didn't always automatically lead to sex. That's a new modern phenomenon. But I think the big concern Dr. Harley expresses is not about sex but about moving a man in.
One particular observation Dr. Harley has made is that women really do tend to do just fine on their own without a man in their lives. He's usually dealing with women who feel like this is not the case, and trying to persuade them that they don't need to "find someone" with urgency.
I get the man moving in thing. I would never live with a man before marriage (I did not with STBX, but he never asked anyway. He knew I would not live with him) and now I would never engage in permarital sex (I did with my STBX and that was a disaster).

I have to say, I probably won't abstain from dating and I'd ideally like to get married again. But I would absolutely NOT introduce my kid to a man unless he was dead serious about getting married.

We'll see. In any case, I would rather stay single than marry a low quality man or a renter again. I was thinking the other day that if I met my WH today, I wouldn't even go on a date with him. He uses vulgar language now (or at least he did before I went into Plan B), he no longer goes to church, etc. I suppose the affair changed him and caused extreme incompatibility.

In general for singles Dr. Harley recommends dating several people. He's made the statement that by the time you have dated 30 people you'll probably have found somebody decent. I think when people tie themselves down to the first or second person they date they often end up trying to become a Buyer much sooner than is advisable, with someone who may never be willing to become a Buyer. Dating several people (and not even introducing them to your children) sounds like a great way to avoid becoming too invested too early.

BTW, this would be a great thing to talk to Dr. Harley about. Frankly I think we could use more radio shows out there with Dr. Harley's advice to single people, for reference.
I'll be emailing Dr. Harley when I am officially single, which is still going to take a while since I live in CA.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
This is particularly concerning when there are young children in the home but since your son does not live with you that aspect may not be a main issue.

What? I thought she had shared custody with her ex.

Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

We posted a lot of clips regarding dating for single moms and remarriage for you on the other thread. I know in at least one of those clips Dr Harley said the danger with dating is that it will lead to remarriage.

Outside of that warning (and the warnings against remarriage for a single mom - high 2nd divorce rate, troubled marriage putting stress on the child who is already traumatized from the first divorce, risking adding a lot more problems into your life than if you just stayed single, etc) I haven't ever heard him say he is strongly opposed to dating for a single mom. I have heard him giving a a single mom dating advice that was along the lines of - keep the children and dating life separate and to focus on friendship with men.

I am not sure why you think dating must lead to sex or marriage. I have done a lot of casual dating - I have a handful of friends that I still talk to/am FB friends thru dating. But I am not dating for marriage and dating is not a priority for me....my kids are.
If you WANT to get married, then I can see dating being more dangerous for you and perhpas you should stay away from it entirely ?

Definitely agree that you should write in to Dr Harley and get his thoughts on it.
Originally Posted by markos
One particular observation Dr. Harley has made is that women really do tend to do just fine on their own without a man in their lives. He's usually dealing with women who feel like this is not the case, and trying to persuade them that they don't need to "find someone" with urgency.

Yes! I have heard him say this more than once.

Oh my goodness let me just say you all are awesome. I know it may get tiring saying the same thing again and again but I for one benefit so much. I married someone who had no concept of POJA the first time around because I was so ready to be married, of course my marriage died, and then like everyone else I just wanted to go find someone to try and be a nuclear family with again, moving my ex-fiancee in twice even though it was clear to everyone else but me, and I mean everyone, that he was not marriage material. Thank goodness I finally got it into my head not to move a man in before marriage. I have to keep reminding myself that the house is not on fire!
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

We posted a lot of clips regarding dating for single moms and remarriage for you on the other thread. I know in at least one of those clips Dr Harley said the danger with dating is that it will lead to remarriage.

Outside of that warning (and the warnings against remarriage for a single mom - high 2nd divorce rate, troubled marriage putting stress on the child who is already traumatized from the first divorce, risking adding a lot more problems into your life than if you just stayed single, etc) I haven't ever heard him say he is strongly opposed to dating for a single mom. I have heard him giving a a single mom dating advice that was along the lines of - keep the children and dating life separate and to focus on friendship with men.

I am not sure why you think dating must lead to sex or marriage. I have done a lot of casual dating - I have a handful of friends that I still talk to/am FB friends thru dating. But I am not dating for marriage and dating is not a priority for me....my kids are.
If you WANT to get married, then I can see dating being more dangerous for you and perhpas you should stay away from it entirely ?

Definitely agree that you should write in to Dr Harley and get his thoughts on it.

You didn't post this on my thread. You posted this on another thread.

And actually the show either you or Brainhurts posted actually specifically warned single mothers against dating AT ALL. If you eventually have a steady boyfriend from dating, it can often lead to sex. It's unrealistic to think it can't or won't. I don't see anything wrong with casually dating and it's fine if it's not a priority, but it's not always not going to be a priority for me. That's just a fact.

And I do want to get remarried eventually. I don't think that either strange or dangerous. There is nothing wrong with me wanting a partnership when my first marriage was ruined by an affair that was not my fault and I had no control over.

Caution is in order, but I find these conversations really tiresome. Some people on these boards remarry, others don't. I completely understand the concerns, but in general, I find it pretty unrealistic to completely subsume a lot of your emotional needs for more than a decade because your ex-spouse exploded your marriage. Im not in any hurry and will probably wait a couple years to date at all, but If I find a good guy who can also willing to love me and be a good step-dad, I'm probably going to get remarried. I see guys on this site all the time who are good step dads with wayward wives who are trying to save their marriages for their step kids as well, so I know they exist.





Quote
It's unrealistic to think it can't or won't.
Not really. It's only unrealistic if you settle for that.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
If you eventually have a steady boyfriend from dating, it can often lead to sex. It's unrealistic to think it can't or won't.

I don't understand - do you just not know anybody who dated without having sex?
When your daughters get to be dating age, do you think it's unrealistic to expect them to date without having sex?
Of course, I've dated without sex. Most dating is without sex. But at some point, when the relationship becomes serious or exclusive it becomes difficult to abstain for most people. Anyone who makes it that far with me (to a year), I'm considering marrying. I'm not just going to keep endlessly dating that person.

What I am referring to is single mothers who date without getting remarried. That's fine, if it's all super casual. However, many people find someone to be exclusive with eventually. Then it becomes difficult to abstain for years and years if there is a no remarriage rule until the kids are out of the house (which doesn't guarantee anything by the way, adult children and step parents have problems to. I did with my dad's second wife and I was an adult when he remarried).
I only have one daughter.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
You didn't post this on my thread. You posted this on another thread.

I didn't say I posted it on "your" thread.

Quote
We posted a lot of clips regarding dating for single moms and remarriage for you on the other thread.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
And actually the show either you or Brainhurts posted actually specifically warned single mothers against dating AT ALL.

You did this on the other thread too, PW.

Here:
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2849727&page=6

Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
The clips that were given by Dr. H advocated no dating at all for single moms. So that is what I thought you were getting at.

No...the clip I shared he talks about the dangers of remarriage.


Then you apologized and said you were only referring to BH's radio clips.

Why are you arguing about dating when you just want to remarry? Just ignore Dr Harley's advice and do what you want in terms of remarrying.

Seriously, I don't get it.


I know exactly what I posted. I am posting the same thing and I am getting the same feedback. I know what harley says specifically about remarriage.

I keep posting because I am confused. The clips you posted or BH (and I only apologized because I got the poster wrong, not because I was mistaken about the content) posted talked about specifically said no dating AT ALL and if that is the case then most of the single mothers are just doing what they want.

Posters, particularly you, are incredibly stringent and strident on this topic and I want to know if it's for personal reasons or because there is some real backing. If the advice is not to date at all, that's fine, but let's be upfront about it.



Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
Posters, particularly you, are incredibly stringent and strident on this topic

Originally Posted by markos
I think Dr. Harley's exact advice to single moms requires a bit of finesse for each individual situation.
I've written Dr. Harley on this topic and will cease posting.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I've written Dr. Harley on this topic and will cease posting.
If your mind is already made up, then there is no reason to post. But in the event that you are still listening, then consider this:

The problem with blended families has to do with the intrinsic situation and not the people involved. You seem to think that there is the right match out there with whom this whole thing will just work. That is not the case. Even if the guy were perfect, the kind of sacrifices he and you would have to make are inconsistent with the essential requirement that married spouses keep each other first in all decisions. That is why blended-family marriages fail 85% of the time. It isn't that the people just didn't find the right partners. It is that the situation is so difficult.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
Posters, particularly you, are incredibly stringent and strident on this topic and I want to know if it's for personal reasons or because there is some real backing. If the advice is not to date at all, that's fine, but let's be upfront about it.

Here we go again. As I told you on the other thread that I linked above, I don't want to debate dating with you. I have told you that I have heard him give dating advice to a single mother to basically focus on friendship with her dating and I gave you clips where he says the danger of dating is that it will lead to marriage - but the main topic of the show is about the dangers of remarriage. Markos also just told you that Dr Harley has given different advice out regarding dating.

I have to confess I am puzzled by your position - you want to hold posters' (who plan to follow Dr Harley's advice regarding remarriage) feet to the fire and argue with them about dating, yet you are making arguments (even adult kids can have problems with stepparents, etc) and have said outright that you want to remarry. Really? Just write to Dr Harley for advice on your situation if you want it and be done with it.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
Posters, particularly you, are incredibly stringent and strident on this topic and I want to know if it's for personal reasons or because there is some real backing. If the advice is not to date at all, that's fine, but let's be upfront about it.

I want to point out that *I* am not stringent on the topic of dating or remarriage.

Dr Harley is the one who warns about the dangers of remarriage which I completely get since my kids have been through hell with the divorce and then again with their father's remarriage.

Here is another example of Dr Harley's specific advice to another poster about her fiance (to continue dating but not marry until the kids are grown).

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
My general advice regarding remarriage after divorce is to make sure that the children are in enthusiastic agreement with the plan. If there is any hesitation, I don�t recommend it, regardless of how much in love the couple are. The couple can continue their relationship until the children are on their own, and marry then. Blended families (marriage after divorce with children), and notoriously fragile, and children often become very jealous of their parent�s time and attention. As a parent watches her children suffer after such a marriage, it inevitably ruins the marriage itself as well as the children.

Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

I agree. I see no point in dating if you intend on being single for years.
Most men dating are looking for a partner and the ones looking for casual dating are looking for sex.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I get the man moving in thing. I would never live with a man before marriage (I did not with STBX, but he never asked anyway. He knew I would not live with him) and now I would never engage in permarital sex (I did with my STBX and that was a disaster).

I have to say, I probably won't abstain from dating and I'd ideally like to get married again. But I would absolutely NOT introduce my kid to a man unless he was dead serious about getting married.

We'll see. In any case, I would rather stay single than marry a low quality man or a renter again. I was thinking the other day that if I met my WH today, I wouldn't even go on a date with him. He uses vulgar language now (or at least he did before I went into Plan B), he no longer goes to church, etc. I suppose the affair changed him and caused extreme incompatibility.

On the flip side, i knew a woman that dated a guy and he told her he did not believe in premarital sex so they Waited until after marriage...and he was impotent! She left him a few months later without ever having sex with him!
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
This is particularly concerning when there are young children in the home but since your son does not live with you that aspect may not be a main issue.

What? I thought she had shared custody with her ex.

I thought the boy lived with his dad.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

I agree. I see no point in dating if you intend on being single for years.
Most men dating are looking for a partner and the ones looking for casual dating are looking for sex.

All I can say is it's been working OK for me for three years now. Dating is not a big part of my life, but I have enjoyed male companionship, gone on a lot of great (and some awful) dates and made OS friendships. I know some other single moms who it has worked for as well.

If something were to have the potential to be serious, the way I look at it is that my youngest is 13 so I could push the remarriage until he is grown. If my kids were really little then I might not take the chance of dating if I had a strong desire to get remarried.
Well piglets child is 3 so she will need to wait 15 years to remarry or have sex.
How many men will say, okay i wjll wait 15 years for you?
The fact ia that men looking for a mate try to avoid serial daters because there is no future or reward in pursuing more dates.
If i went on one date with a serial dater and she wanted to be friends and go out, i would agree to it but i would try to meet her friends and ask for phone numbers.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

I agree. I see no point in dating if you intend on being single for years.
Most men dating are looking for a partner and the ones looking for casual dating are looking for sex.

BINGO!! That is my point, completely. If the advice is for single mothers not to remarry, then there is no point in really dating. Men either want to get married or want sex.

I am communicating with Dr. Harley on this and he is asking me some specific questions about it. So, I'll be doing that.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
The fact ia that men looking for a mate try to avoid serial daters because there is no future or reward in pursuing more dates.
If i went on one date with a serial dater and she wanted to be friends and go out, i would agree to it but i would try to meet her friends and ask for phone numbers.

I have met many single men who are divorced with children and not looking to rush into marriage either. They would be willing to date long term and hold off on marriage for a few years. When you are only dating when your children are with your ex, it puts the brakes on a relationship and slows it down considerably anyway. That has been my experience.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well piglets child is 3 so she will need to wait 15 years to remarry or have sex.
How many men will say, okay i wjll wait 15 years for you?

If I were Piglet and going to follow Dr Harley's advice on remarriage, I would probably just avoid dating until my child was much older.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

I agree. I see no point in dating if you intend on being single for years.
Most men dating are looking for a partner and the ones looking for casual dating are looking for sex.

I disagree.

If something were to happen to markos before the kids were grown, I would date causally for the fun of it. I would make opposite sex friends. But I would not remarry until the kids are grown.

And there are men out there -- DECENT men -- who also are willing to date causally and aren't looking for a long-term relationship or sex. I've dated them. It's all about boundaries -- the guys who just wanted sex never made it past "Hello."

It probably also depends on the circles you run it, too. If that kind of guy isn't in your circle, find a new group. They exist.

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Most men dating are looking for a partner and the ones looking for casual dating are looking for sex.

JK, you have also posted before that lots of people who are doing online dating are just looking for sex. That hasn't been my experience. I have dated many men that I met through online dating - not one single one of them was like that. I have girlfriends that have done a lot of online dating and also haven't had that experience.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well piglets child is 3 so she will need to wait 15 years to remarry or have sex.
How many men will say, okay i wjll wait 15 years for you?

If I were Piglet and going to follow Dr Harley's advice on remarriage, I would probably just avoid dating until my child was much older.


Okay. Here's the thing: i probably predict she will contact dr harley and he will tell her to date and find a husband.
But we will see
Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

I agree. I see no point in dating if you intend on being single for years.
Most men dating are looking for a partner and the ones looking for casual dating are looking for sex.

I disagree.

If something were to happen to markos before the kids were grown, I would date causally for the fun of it. I would make opposite sex friends. But I would not remarry until the kids are grown.

And there are men out there -- DECENT men -- who also are willing to date causally and aren't looking for a long-term relationship or sex. I've dated them. It's all about boundaries -- the guys who just wanted sex never made it past "Hello."

It probably also depends on the circles you run it, too. If that kind of guy isn't in your circle, find a new group. They exist.

You can find friends at the YMCA. Dating is traditionally for finding a mate.
What would be the point in dating a serial dater continually?
I dont get it
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
The fact ia that men looking for a mate try to avoid serial daters because there is no future or reward in pursuing more dates.
If i went on one date with a serial dater and she wanted to be friends and go out, i would agree to it but i would try to meet her friends and ask for phone numbers.

I have met many single men who are divorced with children and not looking to rush into marriage either. They would be willing to date long term and hold off on marriage for a few years. When you are only dating when your children are with your ex, it puts the brakes on a relationship and slows it down considerably anyway. That has been my experience.

For how long will a man agree to have dates with no prospect of marriage or sex?
15 years? 5 years?
People are different in a decade.
mens top emotional need is sex. Basically you are saying there are men that will live as a monk because a woman they date won't commit to marriage? I suppose there are some.
I think part of the problem may be that many of the divorced women on here have never met a man of my caliber. There are many guys that they can be girlfriends with and go shopping with but a man of my caliber is usually irresistible and they dream of being proposed to.
so perhaps we are discussing apples and oranges.
in fact, in a radio show Harley said i should wear a motorcycle helmet on my dates so the women do not see my good lucks or they would start stalking me.
I just remembered we are off track with the original poster.
she has a son but he does not live with her.
in that case, i think harley would advise waiting a couple years and then dating.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
The fact ia that men looking for a mate try to avoid serial daters because there is no future or reward in pursuing more dates.
If i went on one date with a serial dater and she wanted to be friends and go out, i would agree to it but i would try to meet her friends and ask for phone numbers.

I have met many single men who are divorced with children and not looking to rush into marriage either. They would be willing to date long term and hold off on marriage for a few years. When you are only dating when your children are with your ex, it puts the brakes on a relationship and slows it down considerably anyway. That has been my experience.

For how long will a man agree to have dates with no prospect of marriage or sex?
15 years? 5 years?
People are different in a decade.
mens top emotional need is sex. Basically you are saying there are men that will live as a monk because a woman they date won't commit to marriage? I suppose there are some.

I have to agree. They just may not be having sex with you.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

I agree. I see no point in dating if you intend on being single for years.
Most men dating are looking for a partner and the ones looking for casual dating are looking for sex.

BINGO!! That is my point, completely. If the advice is for single mothers not to remarry, then there is no point in really dating. Men either want to get married or want sex.

I am communicating with Dr. Harley on this and he is asking me some specific questions about it. So, I'll be doing that.
Is he going to read your questions on the radio or will you being on the radio?
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
This is particularly concerning when there are young children in the home but since your son does not live with you that aspect may not be a main issue.

What? I thought she had shared custody with her ex.



SusieQ yes you are right I do have shared custody of my son. He definately lives with me 50 percent of the time. Jedi I don't know where you got the idea that my son didn't live with me at all?

I'm just reading everyones replies now.

And Brainhurts Yes I am in Plan B still with my exWH. I have no plans or interest in talking to him.



Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
I think part of the problem may be that many of the divorced women on here have never met a man of my caliber. There are many guys that they can be girlfriends with and go shopping with but a man of my caliber is usually irresistible and they dream of being proposed to.
so perhaps we are discussing apples and oranges.
in fact, in a radio show Harley said i should wear a motorcycle helmet on my dates so the women do not see my good lucks or they would start stalking me.


LMAO Jedi and have you tried the wearing of the motorcycle helmet?

Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

I think Dr. Harley's exact advice to single moms requires a bit of finesse for each individual situation. In general I think his big concern is to not introduce a man to the children's lives because he will tend to take over. The typical pattern is the Renter pattern where the guy moves in with no commitment, which is extremely harmful to children and extraordinarily risky.

BTW, dating didn't always automatically lead to sex. That's a new modern phenomenon. But I think the big concern Dr. Harley expresses is not about sex but about moving a man in.



Hi Markos

I have no intention of introducing my son to ANY man. I'm not going to do what XWH did and introduced him to the OW and her children. As I said it's very early days and it's only been a month of seeing him. I'm with pigletwiglet and won't introduce my son to anyone unless I knew that I was going to remarry. And don't worry everyone I'm not moving in with him!

I really just wanted to point out that I was dating and FINALLY moving on from my WXH.

And finally having fun and getting on with my life!

And Indiegirl - you are soooo right. My WXH's family was and is a total nightmare!!

Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
The fact ia that men looking for a mate try to avoid serial daters because there is no future or reward in pursuing more dates.
If i went on one date with a serial dater and she wanted to be friends and go out, i would agree to it but i would try to meet her friends and ask for phone numbers.

I have met many single men who are divorced with children and not looking to rush into marriage either. They would be willing to date long term and hold off on marriage for a few years. When you are only dating when your children are with your ex, it puts the brakes on a relationship and slows it down considerably anyway. That has been my experience.



SusieQ I very much agree with this. The man I have been seeing is divorced with kids. As I said it's only early days and we just enjoy each others company. I only see him when we don't have our kids.

I know people think I am rushing into things but I have been divorced 8 months. I know that may not seem like a long time, but you also have to remember I have been living on my own for 3 years watching my WXH live his life with OW. I have done everything right and did not date in this whole 3 years while I was married. So I think I deserve to just have a nice friendship with a man. At this point in time, I don't know if i will every remarry, I'm just happy to be moved on from my WXH.

And I'm super happy to be in a much better place than I was even 6 months ago.

And Indie thank you for once saying to me 'This will be the darkest hour before your brightest dawn'. (Or something like that).

Ok. I got advice from Dr. Harley--

Take it slow. Don't date for at least a year until you establish yourself as a single mother. He said I was young enough to conceivably date men with no children and to do that if possible. He said to be very vigilant and in evaluation mode from a distance as long as possible if I do start dating.



Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

I agree. I see no point in dating if you intend on being single for years.
Most men dating are looking for a partner and the ones looking for casual dating are looking for sex.

I disagree.

If something were to happen to markos before the kids were grown, I would date causally for the fun of it. I would make opposite sex friends. But I would not remarry until the kids are grown.

And there are men out there -- DECENT men -- who also are willing to date causally and aren't looking for a long-term relationship or sex. I've dated them. It's all about boundaries -- the guys who just wanted sex never made it past "Hello."

It probably also depends on the circles you run it, too. If that kind of guy isn't in your circle, find a new group. They exist.

You can find friends at the YMCA. Dating is traditionally for finding a mate.

Not really. Dating is to have fun with members of the opposite sex. One purpose may be to find a mate, but it is not necessarily THE purpose.

Dr. Harley himself was a casual dater. He dated "placeholders" he had no interest in marrying just because he wanted the companionship of a female. There is nothing wrong with doing that, and there are fine and decent people who do just that.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
The fact ia that men looking for a mate try to avoid serial daters because there is no future or reward in pursuing more dates.
If i went on one date with a serial dater and she wanted to be friends and go out, i would agree to it but i would try to meet her friends and ask for phone numbers.

I have met many single men who are divorced with children and not looking to rush into marriage either. They would be willing to date long term and hold off on marriage for a few years. When you are only dating when your children are with your ex, it puts the brakes on a relationship and slows it down considerably anyway. That has been my experience.

For how long will a man agree to have dates with no prospect of marriage or sex?
15 years? 5 years?
People are different in a decade.
mens top emotional need is sex. Basically you are saying there are men that will live as a monk because a woman they date won't commit to marriage? I suppose there are some.

She didn't say that at all.
The point is not to date someone for 5 years or 15 years (although I've known good people who have done just that). The point is to date AROUND. Date 30 people.

He can date her for a few months or a few years, then move on when he is ready to get married.
Quote
For how long will a man agree to have dates with no prospect of marriage or sex?
15 years? 5 years?
People are different in a decade.
mens top emotional need is sex. Basically you are saying there are men that will live as a monk because a woman they date won't commit to marriage? I suppose there are some.
This is a strawman.
Originally Posted by Prisca
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by Prisca
I disagree.

If something were to happen to markos before the kids were grown, I would date causally for the fun of it. I would make opposite sex friends. But I would not remarry until the kids are grown.

And there are men out there -- DECENT men -- who also are willing to date causally and aren't looking for a long-term relationship or sex. I've dated them. It's all about boundaries -- the guys who just wanted sex never made it past "Hello."

It probably also depends on the circles you run it, too. If that kind of guy isn't in your circle, find a new group. They exist.

You can find friends at the YMCA. Dating is traditionally for finding a mate.

Not really. Dating is to have fun with members of the opposite sex. One purpose may be to find a mate, but it is not necessarily THE purpose.

Dr. Harley himself was a casual dater. He dated "placeholders" he had no interest in marrying just because he wanted the companionship of a female. There is nothing wrong with doing that, and there are fine and decent people who do just that.

When dr harley did that he was a teenager.
The reason why he advocas dating around is to find someone that meets your emotional needs.
I have never heard him advocate dating for the purpose of finding friends. That is something that has evolved on this forum, not from his books or radio show.
A reminder that the purpose of this forum is to discuss Marriage Builders concepts and Dr. Harley's views. This is not a platform for personal philosophies and folk wisdom. If you are going to post here, you must abide by those rules, or kindly refrain from posting. If you disagree with Dr. Harley's views, feel free to email him directly at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.
Quote
I have never heard him advocate dating for the purpose of finding friends.
Another strawman.

Quote
When dr harley did that he was a teenager.
The reason why he advocas dating around is to find someone that meets your emotional needs.
I have never heard him advocate dating for the purpose of finding friends. That is something that has evolved on this forum, not from his books or radio show.
Dr. Harley does not tell people to only date placeholders if they are teenagers.

Dr. Harley does not say to date only when you are trying to find a mate. That goes against his placeholder advice.

For clarification:
People have emotional needs. One of them is sex.
After divorce, Harley is cautious in recommending remarriage because of the high failure rate. He often advises women to gain independence after divorce and receive an education if needed so they can support themselves and their children. He has observed that women seem to do well on their own when not in a relationship.
He has often advised women to not remarry until after the kids are out of the house because of the high divorce rate. However, many women refuse to wait that long. One recent poster (a divorced woman with kids)contacted Dr Harley and said she was in love with her new boyfriend and he encouraged her to marry him.
Harleys main focus is on preaching the Policy of Joint Agreement. Everything revolves around that. As he explained on my radio call, remarriages can be very successful if the POJA is followed.
One thing he would never recommend is cohabitation before marriage. Over the years, some posters will invite their boyfriends to spend the night on the couch or go on trips. Harley would not advocate that with children.

Much of the focus on dating for friendships seemed to start a couple years ago when he recommended to a few callers to date and develop friends with the opposite sex. One of these callers was a man that was admittedly scared of women. Harley advocating developing female friends, not as the end but rather as the means to the end which would be ability to have a romantic relationship.

Personally,i think there is nothing wrong with dating to find friends but if i was dating a woman to be friends it would be 50/50 and not a date. Many men follow guides of traditional dating and ** EDIT ** has been mentioned on other forums which advocates men keep dates as dates and friends as friends.

Oh btw the poster that Harley recommended get married: She started dating after divorce for "casual dating" and fell in love. If an individual is going on dates with the mindset of "i will not fall in love and this is for fun" they may have a great time but the so called "friendships" will quickly end once the "friend" finds a person that wants to pursue romance. I dont see much ROI on such friendships.

Since your son lives with you 50% of the time, i dont know what harley would advise. As markos suggested you should write to him and ask him to answer your question on the air. But remember everything he saya revolves around the POJA so it would be imperative that it would be followed in any future marriage.
The only person I've seen that has said anything about dating for friendship on this thread has been you, Jedi.

Casually dating placeholders for years until you are ready for marriage does not equal "dating for friendship."

Quote
If an individual is going on dates with the mindset of "i will not fall in love and this is for fun" they may have a great time but the so called "friendships" will quickly end once the "friend" finds a person that wants to pursue romance.
I think that's pretty much a given.

Quote
I dont see much ROI on such friendships.
Many people do see a benefit to this casual type of relationship, including Dr. Harley. The people dating casually do not think of it as a "friendship," and neither does Dr. Harley. His term is "placeholder."
Well then i guess this poster should post an ad on internet dating that she is looking for placeholders and see who responds
Jedi, you just sound anti-dating to me.

Why do you care so much if people like to date but don't plan to remarry until their children are grown?
Or perhaps she can follow the advice of those who have successfully dated placeholders, such as Susie.

If you have a problem with Dr. Harley's placeholder advice, maybe you should contact him to discuss it.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well then i guess this poster should post an ad on internet dating that she is looking for placeholders and see who responds

I have heard Dr Harley say that he would even advocate dating to help someone move on from a bad break up. I doubt he would advocate advertising that.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Jedi, you just sound anti-dating to me.

Why do you care so much if people like to date but don't plan to remarry until their children are grown?

I have no problem with that.
th point i am making is that this is not a "rule" of dr. Harley.
There's no rules for dating, there's just advice.

Dr. Harley often strongly advises women to not remarry before the children are grown, but also to casually date placeholders with no plans to marry.

This is Dr. Harley's advice, not just the forum's.

Why do you feel the need to contradict that advice?
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
Ok. I got advice from Dr. Harley--

Take it slow. Don't date for at least a year until you establish yourself as a single mother. He said I was young enough to conceivably date men with no children and to do that if possible. He said to be very vigilant and in evaluation mode from a distance as long as possible if I do start dating.
So he's ok with dating with some conditions/precautions.

Did he say anything about remarriage?
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Jedi, you just sound anti-dating to me.

Why do you care so much if people like to date but don't plan to remarry until their children are grown?

I have no problem with that.
th point i am making is that this is not a "rule" of dr. Harley.

Ok, I was just wondering because like I said earlier, I remember you posting negative stuff about online dating and people only wanting sex. The reason I specifically remember that was because you scared me!
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
Ok. I got advice from Dr. Harley--

Take it slow. Don't date for at least a year until you establish yourself as a single mother. He said I was young enough to conceivably date men with no children and to do that if possible. He said to be very vigilant and in evaluation mode from a distance as long as possible if I do start dating.
So he's ok with dating with some conditions/precautions.

Did he say anything about remarriage?

He said ideally to wait until she was out of the house, but to take it "year by year." There was an acknowledgement that waiting 15 years to to have your needs met may not be realistically possible, so he encouraged me to wait as long as possible--but at least a year. At that time, reevaluate. If I do decided to date, try to date men without kids if possible to lessen the risks.

I think this is pretty much caution and hedging your bets kind of advice. The longer you wait to date with kids, the easier it is to just not date and you may decide you don't want to. Also, the standards get higher if you are not trying to rush and rebound because you miss the trappings of getting married. He basically said, "if you fall in love and want to marry, you need to weigh that against the risks of a blended family," which is true.
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well piglets child is 3 so she will need to wait 15 years to remarry or have sex.
How many men will say, okay i wjll wait 15 years for you?

If I were Piglet and going to follow Dr Harley's advice on remarriage, I would probably just avoid dating until my child was much older.


Okay. Here's the thing: i probably predict she will contact dr harley and he will tell her to date and find a husband.
But we will see

Do i win a prize?
Originally Posted by Prisca
There's no rules for dating, there's just advice.

Dr. Harley often strongly advises women to not remarry before the children are grown, but also to casually date placeholders with no plans to marry.

This is Dr. Harley's advice, not just the forum's.

Why do you feel the need to contradict that advice?

Here is the issue with this--and I also think what Dr. Harley was saying to me as well. With dating ALWAYS comes the risk of falling in love. It just does. When that happens, as we know, all bets are off. That is why he encouraged me to WAIT as long as possible to date at all. OS friendships lead to love, we all know that.

One cannot say in one breath, "affairs are caused by OS friendships" and then say, "I can have OS friendships as a divorced person and it won't lead to falling in love or having sex or getting married for years and years" in another. It can and it may very well lead to falling in love and then we know it's extremely hard to control.

So go ahead and date, but don't pretend like it can't lead to a love affair. It can. And then, you might have sex. Or might want to risk a blended family.

If you want to stay single, the best thing to do is not to date.
This has been quite an interesting discussion to follow.

My position would be on Jedi's side of the argument.

Maybe dating vs courting would be a more precise way to distinguish what we're talking about here?
Originally Posted by axslinger85
This has been quite an interesting discussion to follow.

My position would be on Jedi's side of the argument.

Maybe dating vs courting would be a more precise way to distinguish what we're talking about here?

I agree. Its a definition of the word.
** EDIT **
The American Heritage Dictionary defines date as "An appointment to meet socially at a particular time; especially with a member of the opposite sex."

So I was incorrect considering the definition of the word. Of course men and women can have dates.
I'm a single mom of four ... I absolutely love dating ... I've had several boyfriends and I made some unbelievably great guy friends.

I've been in love, and I love some of my guy friends.

The best advice and the best choice was to heal myself first. I had to get to a place where I was very happy as a single mom, and anyone who came into my life simply complements my life.

I wouldn't trade how I got to my life today for anything. Right now I'm in the middle of the worst fight of my life. My WxH came around after five years with a vengeance. No matter what comes at me he doesn't break my spirit or my happiness.

I wouldn't be able to still be Tough as nails if I didn't take the time to heal and find peace.

My dating life has been fun ... has been heartbreaking ... and has been joyful.

I wouldn't trade all of it for anything. My four kids and I are doing very well, and I'm a darn good single mom. I'm rocking single mom hood ... truly loving every minute of my life.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
Here is the issue with this--and I also think what Dr. Harley was saying to me as well. With dating ALWAYS comes the risk of falling in love. It just does. When that happens, as we know, all bets are off. That is why he encouraged me to WAIT as long as possible to date at all. OS friendships lead to love, we all know that.


That is exactly right. I was fortunate in that my youngest was already 18 so I did not have your constraint. I decided to date casually to help me decide whether to stay in the US or go home to the UK. After meeting some people (including some that reminded me scarily of my XH), I met someone who was totally amazing. I had no idea that people as lovely as him were around and single.

On the other hand I have a number of girlfriends who are either divorced or widowed that are incredibly happy as singles. I would have also been a happy single and expected to be.
I agree with this, living well.

I think single mothers have to acknowledge that they are willing to risk falling in love and possibly remarrying if they are going to date at all. It's a possibility. And if so, your eyes have to be WIDE OPEN to the real risks. That's why I would date only childless men if I did date. That might, of course limit my dating pool to zero (because I am sure there are many men who wouldn't want to date me as a single mom).

It's also a possibility to date, fall in love and not marry, but that is very hard too. I am not sure I could fall in love again and not marry (as I am the marrying kind. I love the rhythm of marriage).

Overall, it's a difficult and frankly unfair position to be in. However, I would rather be a single mom for 15 years than be in the presence of a remorseless cheater for another 5 minutes, so it's all relative. LOL.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I agree with this, living well.

I think single mothers have to acknowledge that they are willing to risk falling in love and possibly remarrying if they are going to date at all. It's a possibility. And if so, your eyes have to be WIDE OPEN to the real risks. That's why I would date only childless men if I did date. That might, of course limit my dating pool to zero (because I am sure there are many men who wouldn't want to date me as a single mom).

It's also a possibility to date, fall in love and not marry, but that is very hard too. I am not sure I could fall in love again and not marry (as I am the marrying kind. I love the rhythm of marriage).

Overall, it's a difficult and frankly unfair position to be in. However, I would rather be a single mom for 15 years than be in the presence of a remorseless cheater for another 5 minutes, so it's all relative. LOL.

Falling in love is very much a possibility, with dates or friends of the opposite sex.
A small percentage of women and men are serial daters and looking only for dates but for the remaining majority when love bank balances start getting deposited love is a possibility.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I agree with this, living well.

I think single mothers have to acknowledge that they are willing to risk falling in love and possibly remarrying if they are going to date at all. It's a possibility. And if so, your eyes have to be WIDE OPEN to the real risks. That's why I would date only childless men if I did date. That might, of course limit my dating pool to zero (because I am sure there are many men who wouldn't want to date me as a single mom).

It's also a possibility to date, fall in love and not marry, but that is very hard too. I am not sure I could fall in love again and not marry (as I am the marrying kind. I love the rhythm of marriage).

Overall, it's a difficult and frankly unfair position to be in. However, I would rather be a single mom for 15 years than be in the presence of a remorseless cheater for another 5 minutes, so it's all relative. LOL.

This is also why it is important to weed out dates that do not have a shared value system with you. Harley mentions this in his book.
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I agree with this, living well.

I think single mothers have to acknowledge that they are willing to risk falling in love and possibly remarrying if they are going to date at all. It's a possibility. And if so, your eyes have to be WIDE OPEN to the real risks. That's why I would date only childless men if I did date. That might, of course limit my dating pool to zero (because I am sure there are many men who wouldn't want to date me as a single mom).

It's also a possibility to date, fall in love and not marry, but that is very hard too. I am not sure I could fall in love again and not marry (as I am the marrying kind. I love the rhythm of marriage).

Overall, it's a difficult and frankly unfair position to be in. However, I would rather be a single mom for 15 years than be in the presence of a remorseless cheater for another 5 minutes, so it's all relative. LOL.


Youare fresh off divorce. Take the time to find your rhythm as a single mom. Join some fun social events that includes single guys.

Don't rule out anything. Men in their thirties who are dedicated fathers are good stuff. I have dated men with kids and without. Both have their positives and negatives.

The best advice as a single mom is to be happy and thriving on your own. This will give you a good head on your shoulders to choose wisely.



Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
Originally Posted by Prisca
There's no rules for dating, there's just advice.

Dr. Harley often strongly advises women to not remarry before the children are grown, but also to casually date placeholders with no plans to marry.

This is Dr. Harley's advice, not just the forum's.

Why do you feel the need to contradict that advice?

Here is the issue with this--and I also think what Dr. Harley was saying to me as well. With dating ALWAYS comes the risk of falling in love. It just does. When that happens, as we know, all bets are off. That is why he encouraged me to WAIT as long as possible to date at all. OS friendships lead to love, we all know that.

One cannot say in one breath, "affairs are caused by OS friendships" and then say, "I can have OS friendships as a divorced person and it won't lead to falling in love or having sex or getting married for years and years" in another. It can and it may very well lead to falling in love and then we know it's extremely hard to control.

So go ahead and date, but don't pretend like it can't lead to a love affair. It can. And then, you might have sex. Or might want to risk a blended family.

We are not ignorant of the love bank model and the possibility of falling in love, PW. Nobody has said there is no risk.

In fact, a lot of what has been discussed (in line with advice Dr Harley has given to single moms) is designed to help do the opposite....slow romance down and help a person make a good decision when/if they DO decide to marry, such as:

~ establishing yourself as a single mom first
~ focusing on texting, conversation and OS friendship
~ making the kids a priority, not dating
~ not mixing kids and dating time (these last two are going to limit UA time severely -- at least it has for me -- and lessen the amount of ENs your dates are meeting)
~ casual dating AROUND so that you are meeting many different kinds of men vs focusing on getting into a serious relationship with ONE person

For me personally, I feel like, well, if I happen to meet a man that I fall in love with in the next year or two, and we dated for another year or two, my son will be nearly grown anyway. In the end it will be best if I have dated around and have a good sense for what kind of man can meet my needs best and given me adequate time to practice POJA with them during the dating period. Sometimes I think, who knows, maybe one of these guys could end up being my husband in a few years. You never know!

Aside from his warnings about remarriage (which he brings up every time he talks to a single mom), the bottom line is that there are no hard and fast MB rules for dating - as markos posted to you pages and pages ago, Dr Harley seems to give different advice out to different single moms based on their goals and situations.

Originally Posted by My4Loves
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I agree with this, living well.

I think single mothers have to acknowledge that they are willing to risk falling in love and possibly remarrying if they are going to date at all. It's a possibility. And if so, your eyes have to be WIDE OPEN to the real risks. That's why I would date only childless men if I did date. That might, of course limit my dating pool to zero (because I am sure there are many men who wouldn't want to date me as a single mom).

It's also a possibility to date, fall in love and not marry, but that is very hard too. I am not sure I could fall in love again and not marry (as I am the marrying kind. I love the rhythm of marriage).

Overall, it's a difficult and frankly unfair position to be in. However, I would rather be a single mom for 15 years than be in the presence of a remorseless cheater for another 5 minutes, so it's all relative. LOL.


Youare fresh off divorce. Take the time to find your rhythm as a single mom. Join some fun social events that includes single guys.

She isn't even divorced yet, M4L, lol.

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Well piglets child is 3 so she will need to wait 15 years to remarry or have sex.
How many men will say, okay i wjll wait 15 years for you?

If I were Piglet and going to follow Dr Harley's advice on remarriage, I would probably just avoid dating until my child was much older.


Okay. Here's the thing: i probably predict she will contact dr harley and he will tell her to date and find a husband.
But we will see

Do i win a prize?

What? lol.

I did not interpret his advice that way. He warned her about remarriage and told her to wait a year before dating to establish herself as a single mom.

Plus you were wrong about RS's son not living with her....so minus points there too...

Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

I agree. I see no point in dating if you intend on being single for years.
Most men dating are looking for a partner and the ones looking for casual dating are looking for sex.

I am kind baffled by the people who think dating has NO purpose besides sex or marriage and wonder if maybe they have had a bad experience or haven't tried it yet (aren't divorced yet).

Like M4L, dating has had many benefits for me.

It's been fun
it's gotten me out of the house
given me something to do with my free time
it's helped me with lonliness/boredom
it's a distraction
helped me meet lots of new and different kinds of people
Worked on my social/dating and conversation skills (before my ex, I was very shy and NOT good at dating...I have improved a lot!)
I am kind of desensitized to the process - I don't get super nervous or butterflies when talking to a good looking man like I did at first, I think this is a good thing...

the list goes on.

To go from having a family of 4 that I devoted 100% of my time to being all by myself about 40% of the time....not to mention that 99% of my friends and family are not single....was a HUGE adjustment and dating helped me through that process.
My apologies ... I thought I saw her divorce date was April. I see PW filed in April.

As a still married woman ... focus on you. This is the time to decide how you want to live your life.

Before my divorce was final I jumped into my health. Lost weight, healed my pain, and devoted my time to my kids.

When my divorce went through I was in such a strong place. My WxH actually called me four days after the divorce talking reconciliation. I handed him a list of Just Compensation and he balked, so I jumped into having a great life as a single mom. Never looked back and today still loving my life.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by PigletWiglet
I'm unclear if Dr. Harley's advice to single mothers is not to date at all or not to remarry. Some of the single moms on this board date, but will not get married. But of that's the case, why date? At some point dating will lead to sex, etc.

I agree. I see no point in dating if you intend on being single for years.
Most men dating are looking for a partner and the ones looking for casual dating are looking for sex.

I am kind baffled by the people who think dating has NO purpose besides sex or marriage and wonder if maybe they have had a bad experience or haven't tried it yet (aren't divorced yet).

Like M4L, dating has had many benefits for me.

It's been fun
it's gotten me out of the house
given me something to do with my free time
it's helped me with lonliness/boredom
it's a distraction
helped me meet lots of new and different kinds of people
Worked on my social/dating and conversation skills (before my ex, I was very shy and NOT good at dating...I have improved a lot!)
I am kind of desensitized to the process - I don't get super nervous or butterflies when talking to a good looking man like I did at first, I think this is a good thing...

the list goes on.

To go from having a family of 4 that I devoted 100% of my time to being all by myself about 40% of the time....not to mention that 99% of my friends and family are not single....was a HUGE adjustment and dating helped me through that process.

Dating can have whatever purpose you want.
What I am saying is that a man looking for a mate will dump a serial dater. If you are looking for another serial dater, then its a match but eventually he will move on because he is playing the numbers and wants sex, not a relationship or to be a girls "guy friend."

I'm not talking about right or wrong. I'm talking about a man finding a mate. I was in sales. Some people will shop and nickel and dime to where you dont make any profit. Does the salesman keep selling to someone who will not buy or does he go to another prospect? Sure, some people will negotiate and want to hang around in the store all day and be your friend but at the end of the day, you either have a sale or no dinner.
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted by SusieQ
If I were Piglet and going to follow Dr Harley's advice on remarriage, I would probably just avoid dating until my child was much older.


Okay. Here's the thing: i probably predict she will contact dr harley and he will tell her to date and find a husband.
But we will see

Do i win a prize?

What? lol.

I did not interpret his advice that way. He warned her about remarriage and told her to wait a year before dating to establish herself as a single mom.

Plus you were wrong about RS's son not living with her....so minus points there too...

Darn! I'm never right!
On yesterday show Dr Harley answered single mother's email regarding her dating relationship and remarriage. He said it's the same 2 year rule for any couple in romantic relationship, it should either lead to marriage within 2 years or break up.

It's definitely not recommendation to keep dating for 5-10-15 years before get married.

My impression was it's ok to remarry if both are truly committed and clear understand the issues of blended families.



Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Dating can have whatever purpose you want
Ok, but your earlier posts said that unless you are going to have sex or marry there is no point. That's what I am responding to.

Quote
What I am saying is that a man looking for a mate will dump a serial dater. If you are looking for another serial dater, then its a match but eventually he will move on because he is playing the numbers and wants sex, not a relationship or to be a girls "guy friend."
It's not about what a "mate" wants - I couldn't care less what a guy is looking for. My priority is what's best for me and my children.

Dr Harley on dating for single moms: "There are all bad choices. It's about choosing the best worst choice."
Originally Posted by Aerith
On yesterday show Dr Harley answered single mother's email regarding her dating relationship and remarriage. He said it's the same 2 year rule for any couple in romantic relationship, it should either lead to marriage within 2 years or break up.

It's definitely not recommendation to keep dating for 5-10-15 years before get married.

My impression was it's ok to remarry if both are truly committed and clear understand the issues of blended families.

First of all, I am not in a serious relationship. It sounds like this woman is - totally different situations.

As markos said earlier, he gives different recommendations based on your situation. The biggest thing he says regarding remarriage is that your children have to be enthusiastic about it, maybe in this woman's case they were.

Did you see this from a few pages back? He gave this advice to a poster to keep dating her fiance for a few more years until her children were grown and not marry because they were not enthusiastic:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
My general advice regarding remarriage after divorce is to make sure that the children are in enthusiastic agreement with the plan. If there is any hesitation, I don�t recommend it, regardless of how much in love the couple are. The couple can continue their relationship until the children are on their own, and marry then. Blended families (marriage after divorce with children), and notoriously fragile, and children often become very jealous of their parent�s time and attention. As a parent watches her children suffer after such a marriage, it inevitably ruins the marriage itself as well as the children.

Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Jedi_Knight
Dating can have whatever purpose you want
Ok, but your earlier posts said that unless you are going to have sex or marry there is no point. That's what I am responding to.

Yes but I was wrong. I looked up the definition of dating and it is just a social engagement.
edit: using the definition of dating, there is no "right or wrong" way to date, ie meet in a social engagement.

When Harley makes recommendations about dating to divorced women, he is encourages caution because most of these remarriages fail. So the fact is the woman is better off living as a nun so long as she has kids.
But, they wont so he tells them to date but he's really trying to slow down the oncoming train.
inevitably, they fall in love and want to consider remarriage and then he encourages POJA...even though most wont use it in blended families and end up divorced.
Originally Posted by Mizar
A reminder that the purpose of this forum is to discuss Marriage Builders concepts and Dr. Harley's views. This is not a platform for personal philosophies and folk wisdom. If you are going to post here, you must abide by those rules, or kindly refrain from posting. If you disagree with Dr. Harley's views, feel free to email him directly at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.

It's time for this dating discussion to be over. There are still way too many personal opinions being thrown around here.

Thank you.
**EDIT**

Note - Do not debate moderator direction on the forum. If you have any issues with moderation, email the moderators.
**EDIT**

Moderator's note: STOP.
I have written to Dr Harley explaining my situation to him (I have taken to heart his advice regarding remarriage and plan to follow it but still enjoying casual dating around and OS friendships) and he has responded.

Note: I emailed the moderators and told them I had received this email from Dr Harley and asked for permission to share it, which they approved.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
From my perspective, and from the experiences I've witnessed in helping single moms get through the growing up years of their children, I see nothing wrong with dating. And when a relationship starts to become serious, I see nothing wrong with introducing your children to the man to get their reaction. Since they are not romantically attached to him, they will have some objective reactions that can be useful to you. He can even come over for dinner if your children would encourage it, but definitely not stay overnight, even if he sleeps in another bedroom.

Some men want to get married as soon as the relationship heats up, and if you want to wait until your youngest is grown and out of the house, they might break up with you. That would be very hard on you emotionally, but if that�s their choice, I�d encourage you to let them go.

Premarital sex usually makes any friendship so compelling that it becomes irrational. Many single women have told me that as soon as they have sex with a man, they lose their ability to objectively judge the wisdom of their marriage to him. So I would encourage you to avoid it.

I have always been a big believer in singles having many relationships with those of the opposite sex (Joyce and I certainly did), and then when married, end them all, swapping them for couples friendships where the primary friend for each is the same sex (Joyce and I did).
Thanks for sharing what Dr. Harley said, SusieQ.
Hi, thought I would come in for an update on my life. Well that guy I was dating didn't work out. He just disappeared and started ignoring me. I've decided that dating isn't really worth the hassle and I'm not looking to meet any man. I want to concentrate all my time on my son and just being the best mother I can be. And to be honest I'm just so busy I really don't have time for a man in my life.

My XWH is still living with OW unmarried, has been for about 4 years now in the house they bought together.

My son comes home and tells me he hates OW and she bosses him around and hardly acknowledges him. He's told me he's happy that I don't have a boyfriend and that all my time is for him. I'm happy with that and my son knows he always comes first in my life.

Since the last time I updated I had some contact with WXH. I had quite a few phone calls to him where we discussed our son. I thought I could handle this as we have been divorced for a year and a half now. But turns out it just made me upset so I've decided that this is not a good idea for me.

Even during these phone calls he started going on about how he missed me, still loved me etc but was stuck with OW because of the house etc. He's definately not happy but I doubt he will ever change things. Same old story.

XWH has missed out on so much of our son's school events, presentations, sporting carnivals because OW still won't let him be in the same vicinity as me. He is still controlled and under constant GPS surveillance even after all this time.

Sadly my son misses out. I'm just glad that he has me there to celebrate his achievements.

It's funny I don't even blame OW for my WXH not being involved in our son's events and achievements anymore. At the end of the day it's my WXH who is a coward and can't stand up for himself and say 'hey this is my son and I'm going to see him at school presentation night, or i'm going to watch my son's swimming carnival'.

He's definately not the man I married. He has become a weak coward of a man and I feel sorry for him.

I still love him and when I think of him it just makes me so sad.
I do think we are still supposed to be together, but I don't know if I could ever take him back after the hurt he has caused my son and I and because of the time that has passed.

But I am doing good and don't think of him that often.

I gave up the bookkeeping course and I am studying a Diploma in Beauty Therapy and go to night classes 2 nights a week where I have met some great ladies and we have a lot of fun.

Once I have finished this course in 18 months I will be a fully qualified Beauty Therapist and hopefully will leave my current job and find full time work in the beauty industry. My son will be a bit older so I will be able to work more.

My plan is eventually to find a new house to live in for my son and I. Currently I still rent the house that is owned by my WXH and his father. They have increased the rent 3 times in the past 3 years with no consideration for me, and claiming that it's business.

I hope to get a good job and cut all ties completely and not have to live here anymore.

XWH has definately come out on top after our settlement leaving me with barely anything as I needed to pay off loans etc.

But I refuse to let it bring me down and I am determined to live the best life possible for my son and myself.

I've taught him that even though we live in a modest house, unlike his father in his million dollar home, what's important is that we have so much love and fun and we are very lucky. My son understands this and is a lot happier when he's with me. He can just relax and be himself and not have OW'S kids around.

My WXH is good in respect to paying child support for my son, but I'm the one who basically does the hard yards in regards to everything else.

I'm proud of that and if WXH wants to miss out on all his stuff, just because a woman tells him too that is not even his wife, then I just feel sorry for him because one day he will regret putting an OW over our son.

The situation still hurts and makes me teary, but I don't dwell on it anymore. I've learned to be positive and picked myself up.

I have no desire to talk to WXH anymore. I've got good friends, a wonderful son and my 20 year old daughter and I are so much closer now. I'm looking forward to finishing my course and starting a new life for my son and I.

I think I've come a long way smile










Thank you for the update, RS!

I think my post-D life mirrors yours in a lot of way, from the top priority being the kids right now all the way to trying to balance a Plan B mindset but struggling with dealing with emotions from seeing your kids being hurt by their still wayward father. My exWH also has a new wife and family and basically doesn't have much to do with either of our children. I currently have my son 100% of the time because he has had a lot of issues with his stepmom.

I guess I am different than you in that I could never ever see myself loving exWH
again - everything from the woman that he married to the woe is me attitude and treatment of the kids...the negative love units are like -100 million. lol. He's so incredibly unattractive to me. Yuck.

Anyway, how did you even get to the point of having phone calls with him? Have you blocked him again?
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Anyway, how did you even get to the point of having phone calls with him? Have you blocked him again?

I was wondering the same. Are you going back to Plan B?
I pretty much sucked at Plan B. Did manage to go about 6 months of no contact.

Fast forward a year. WXH is marrying OW in 2 weeks time. Another thing he said he would never do.

My 11 year old son has said all along he never wanted to attend. He still doesn't want to go but he has now decided he will go because he doesn't want to people to ask questions why he wasn't there.

My WXH told me the reason he is getting married to her is because it's what his family expects and that he is content with his life even though what he has with her is nothing like he had with me (well DUH!)

Nothing else has changed, except for him marrying her. OW still watches him like a hawk and doesn't trust him.

OW still doesn't give my son the time of day, but now leading up to the wedding she had the nerve to chat to my son and apologise for being mean and saying sorry to him. She also said to him that she never bothered trying because she knew that I hated her. (Well I wonder why I hated you OW!) I feel pissed off that she said this to my son.

Anyway nothing else can be done anymore.

I'm done caring anymore.

Other than that I graduated my course and I have a new job. I'm dating a nice man for the past 2 months who is amazing and lovely. I haven't introduced him to my son. I'm just waiting to see what happens.


So I guess I survived the affair even if I didn't recover my marriage.



I am sorry to hear you did not stick with Plan B and are still tangled up in this mess frown Even though you say you are done caring, it is evident by your post that you are not, you are still emotionally tangled up in it, and still allowing your XH to manipulate you. I'm not exactly sure why you would choose this, when you have a better way. I know if I started dating someone who was still tangled up in a situation like this, I would choose to run the other way.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I'm done caring anymore.
It is quite clear that you do care.

You WILL care as long as you are in contact. That is the WHOLE POINT of going into Plan B - to remove yourself from this kind of unnecessary drama and not have it have ANYTHING to do with you.

We've had other BSs who refuse to let go after divorce. What's going to happen here is you are going to continue to be caught up in this type of unnecessary drama regarding them for years and years to come. And yes, it will affect your life and it will affect your son.

We have seen this before, even with BSs who remarry, and they continue to refuse to let go.

If you want to do that, we can't stop you - but this is not MB and it is not healthy.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I pretty much sucked at Plan B. Did manage to go about 6 months of no contact.

Any kind of behavior change is difficult for ANYONE. The whole point of MB and this forum is to get support and help from people in following through on behavior modification in marriage and separation and even divorce.

You darn well know that. You disappeared. You didn't WANT to do Plan B.

You actively stayed in contact and didn't take steps to get help to get back on track even after knowing that breaking the Plan B was a terrible idea (look at your post from 2016).

I agree with everything unwritten and SusieQ have said. They are so on point. As we have all said, you will continue to stay stuck because you refuse to go into and stick to Plan B.

Also, about your guy friend that you�re dating. How fair is it to him and a new relationship when you�re still so entrenched with your XWH? I would not want to be involved with someone who is still so stuck on their Ex. That is just setting anyone up for drama and heartbreak.

So what is your plan?
I guess I should have mentioned that I actually don't want my WXH back. If he turned up on my doorstep begging forgiveness and promising to follow MB I wouldn't take him back.

I'm very happy with my new guy. Yeah I've made lots of mistakes in not following Plan B and disappearing. I actually am so positive in my life now though it may not seem so from my post. I've made lots of changes in my life and I don't let things get me down much anymore.

I guess I came here because WXH getting married was like the final blow and made me feel hurt again. But I am coping and I'm happy with how far I have come. I can honestly say I don't want him back. I don't want to talk to him anymore and I'm definitely ready to move on. I just struggled finding out about the marriage but I'm not going to let it get me down.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I guess I should have mentioned that I actually don't want my WXH back. If he turned up on my doorstep begging forgiveness and promising to follow MB I wouldn't take him back.

I'm very happy with my new guy. Yeah I've made lots of mistakes in not following Plan B and disappearing. I actually am so positive in my life now though it may not seem so from my post. I've made lots of changes in my life and I don't let things get me down much anymore.

I guess I came here because WXH getting married was like the final blow and made me feel hurt again. But I am coping and I'm happy with how far I have come. I can honestly say I don't want him back. I don't want to talk to him anymore and I'm definitely ready to move on. I just struggled finding out about the marriage but I'm not going to let it get me down.

It sounds like you are saying you are not going to do Plan B? Is that right?
No its not correct Susie. I don't feel a need to be in contact anymore.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
No its not correct Susie. I don't feel a need to be in contact anymore.
So what is your Plan to get into Plan B?
No, don't divorce him; if he chokes and dies while eating her food you hopefully will collect on a life insurance policy. So, until he chokes out continue to search for Mr. Right. Accept it, your ex-husband is gone and he is handsome enough to be able to have two women when most men just want one good one! Studs don't make good husbands. I understand you sleeping with him; afterall he is your husband and loneliness from desertion is painful. So, be sure to get the GF's/ phone number so that when you are strong enough to go through the divorce you will get the property(for desertion) and she could become your ally after he leaves her. Hang in there, you'll get over hurt after many years...the other side is better and the only regret is that you didn't move faster. flash4ga
Originally Posted by rocksolid
No its not correct Susie. I don't feel a need to be in contact anymore.

Hi RockSolid, I just wanted to write to you to share some of my experience. When I was previously struggling to implement Plan B, I thought I was having no contact with my WH and that I was therefore doing what I needed to do, but now that I am in a real Plan B I know how wrong that was. I was still totally involved in the drama of it all - and that stopped me being calm, happy and confident like I am now.

The real benefit of plan B is that is stops you having any kind of negative emotional reaction to your XWH at all. Why would I care if he got married again, had more kids, or anything else? He's not the man I want for a husband and he's not willing to change to become one - so I don't want him. It is ME saying he's not good enough for me. Not him rejecting me. I am so much better off than I was before and I wouldn't change it for anything! I think if you were in a real Plan B, you would start to feel like that very quickly. You would chuckle to yourself about him getting married because you know what a lucky escape you have had and what misery OW has got ahead of her laugh
Originally Posted by rocksolid
No its not correct Susie. I don't feel a need to be in contact anymore.

Well, I am confused because Brain asked you what your plan was and you did not answer her.

Is there a reason that you are not answering that question?

Plan B does not happen by a declaration that you don't feel you need to have contact anymore - steps need to be taken. I know that you know this.
Originally Posted by rocksolid
No its not correct Susie. I don't feel a need to be in contact anymore.

You told us that you did not want to be in contact back on 4/2016:
Originally Posted by rocksolid
I have no desire to talk to WXH anymore.
However you stayed in contact with him for a year and a half after saying this.
My post to you 3.5 years ago when you had broken Plan B and written another post about WH/OW drama:

Originally Posted by SusieQ
Is this what you want for your future? To keep getting sucked into this type of drama over and over for the next 1, 2, 5 years??

Or would you like to eventually be in a place where you really could care less what the wayturds are doing?

You need to decide.

RS, I'm sitting here trying to help you when I have a to-do list that is about a mile long because I am taking getting ready to go on a well-deserved vacation (I am a single mother and I work 7 days a week).

I've been trying to help you with Plan B for over 3 years now. It feels like we are more serious about your Plan B that you are.

You need to let posters know if you are serious about this or not so that you do not waste people's time. We are volunteers, we do not get paid to do this.

We do not want to hear anything else about xWH or OW drama (now or years from now).

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