Marriage Builders
Posted By: CYk752 I need help to save my marriage - 05/09/18 05:53 PM
I wish I had found this place sooner.
My wife wants a divorce and our situation has gone from bad to worse to terrible.
My wife and I have been together for 10 years married 4 years this June. She's 30 I'm 34. We've had plenty of arguments over the last several years we bought a house together that we have been remodeling which has added more stress to us. This last year a big issue for her has been my work schedule, I'm a restaurant manager so my days are long and our time together had severely diminished. Although I recently got a new assistant manager so my schedule has vastly improved since February.
I know I had been cutting myself off from daily marriage and focusing on my job and working on the house which is not where I should have been putting my attention.
In the end of February my wife came to me about us finally having children and planing on what that would look like. Needles to say I was ecstatic. I felt as though our issues were going away and we were getting better. But how wrong I was.
The next week she left for a work conference and I had a feeling something was off talking with her. She was only gone a couple days but when she got home our first morning together I went through her phone. I saw a text exchange she had with another man about how much she missed him and couldn't stop thinking about him. I was devastated, angry and hurt. I left immediately went for a 2 hour drive and got more pissed and went to work. I later texted her that I wanted to talk with her when I got home asking her if she'd go out that night. She said she wanted to talk as well and I asked what about. She informed me through text that she wanted an open marriage and it was something she was thinking about for awhile. I called baffled and got into an argument hung up and went about the day. I confronted her that night about the text I saw and she admitted that yes her first day there she met a guy who lives a couple towns away and they hit it off and she did go to his room but only kissed and couldn't go through with more.
She than asked for a separation so she could see what else is out there and if we should be together.
At her request I found us a marriage counselor (who turned out to be no good) she said right from the get go that we should separate and my wife should not see anyone but should explore what she wants in life. Wow horrible advice.
We continued mainly individual sessions with only a few couple sessions as she liked her and didn't want to find another counselor.
She told me time and time again that she broke it off with the other guy but I found out it wasn't true and drunk one night she told me she didn't end it.
I tried to completely back off. Going out on my own leaving her alone and reading as many marriage saving books as I could. I realized that as hurt as I was I can't be mad at her and I desperately want to save our marriage and work it out. I did make the huge mistake of pushing on her to let's work it out, we can fix this being needy and pushy.
I hit a point after her telling me time and time again she told me it was over that I told her we should just file than and be done. She did tell me that she wasn't ready to end it but she wasn't ready to work on it either.
I went out on Thursday night to a bar up the street from our house and saw her having dinner with the other man. I left without confronting her. I brought it up to her in the morning she apologized for flaunting it in front of me she didn't mean to have him come to our town. I told her I didn't care that she was having an affair and that I would do anything to make it work.
She got extremely angry and told me she didn't want to fight but I need to get it through my head that were done.
I reached out to her father asking for his help. Her 2 sister and brother in law know as well as her mother. He was in the dark. I told him what was going on and asked for any help he could give to help me save our marriage.
He talked with her and I've never seen her this angry. On Saturday night she came home at 1130 slightly drunk and told me I had to leave the house and that if I didn't she would make me leave. She brought a male friend with her and I saw red. I knew I couldn't do anything so I called 911. And her father.
He talked with her about the affair and how he feels she's making a huge mistake and just tore into her about what she was doing.
On Monday she pulled all money out of the bank account closed our cellphone account, packed some bags and took our two dogs with her.
After talking with my brother he convinced me I should talk with his lawyer. I filed for divorce yesterday morning but didn't set anything up to have the papers served. Today she called said she knew I filed because she tried to file a PFA against me. She said she feels unsafe at this point and doesn't want to be alone with me, afraid I would take the dogs from her. She accused me of telling her hr manager about her affair and putting screws in her tire. After reading this site I should have done a full exposure but it's too late for that.
I told her I want to make this work and I don't want to serve her papers let alone have the sherif serve her at work. I have every desire to rip up my divorce papers and burn them. I want to fix what I've done wrong in my marriage and make it better. We have 10 years together and in 2 months it all went to absolute hell.
How do I stop this. How do we fix this.
Any help and advice please. I'm lost and I want my wife back and to make a better marriage than what we had.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/09/18 07:02 PM
Hi, cyk - I am very sorry for the circumstances that bring you here, but I am glad you are here.

The biggest problem here is of course her affair, and in order to get your wife back you need to focus on ending that. Have you read through the Exposure 101 thread? http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566583 It isn't too late to expose her affair. Who have you told, and who have you not told?

PFA - can you tell me what that stands for? What is she filing? Is it a restraining order of some sort?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/09/18 07:06 PM
Does the PFA or whatever prevent you exposing?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/09/18 09:53 PM
The PFA as my lawyer states is a Protection From Abuse and may be used to remove me from the home.
Ive never laid a hand in her or threatened her in anyway. Words can't describe how I feel about it.
As far as people that know. Her Mom, older sister & brother in law, her younger sister and fianc�, her 4 closest best friends one of which has ended all communication of the affair. Her father knows now and from the conversation they had the other night someone from her work emailed her HR manager about the affair.
Not sure who else I would have to tell or even if I could at this point.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/09/18 11:38 PM
What kind of evidence do you (still) have?

Evidence both of the affair and evidence of the real non abusive nature of your relationship would be beneficial for schooling her in court. You might want to save as many communications as you can and keep a recorder on you to use in case she shows up unexpectedly. She's making some very dangerous threats you should take seriously. Maybe have your car record your GPS movements or a nanny cam on you at home in case there's a false accusation of your whereabouts.

You've done exposures before she pulled this legal stuff on you, so you can stand down on that point. It seems to have hit the mark nicely too. Is OM married by any chance?

Try to protect any finances you still can as long as that isn't prohibited by this order. I would play by the orders rules; she most certainly won't and judges hate that like poison.

Be patient. Work on your own lifestyle, make it happy for yourself and that will heal you while also making it attractive to her without you having to reach across any court ordered lines.

Plus, you know, you don't have kids and she's immediately gone to a very dark place in defense of her affair. An affair that was caused by her decision making, and piss poor boundaries around men. It was not caused by anything you did wrong in the marriage.

If she does not take you up on your very generous offer of forgiveness, well then youll probably get tired of threats and slander and then it really sucks to be her. She is going to be stuck with a fellow cheater and a bad reputation while you could move on innocently and freely with a totally clean rap sheet.

So take a breath.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/10/18 12:32 AM
Who is the OM? Have you exposed on his side? Was this someone from her work?
Posted By: Prisca Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/10/18 02:22 AM
What about your side of the family? Do they know?
Do you have a church, or another religious organization?
Does the OM have a wife?
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/10/18 02:23 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
We've had plenty of arguments over the last several years

Quote
Any help and advice please. I'm lost and I want my wife back and to make a better marriage than what we had.

Cyk, it's imperative that you never argue with your wife. If she argues with you you need to make sure you do not argue back. Can you do this?

Quote
I'm a restaurant manager so my days are long and our time together had severely diminished.

Can you make time for her now? Not time for discussions about the house or divorce or any other conflicts or differences of opinion but time to be there for her?
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/10/18 02:29 AM
Do you have Dr. Harley's book Surviving an Affair?

You can get the ebook from Amazon and probably read the whole thing in one evening.
Posted By: Bellevue Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/10/18 03:12 PM
Markos, isn't MB the secret weapon? Posts from the past always advise against letting the cheating spouse know about MB.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/10/18 03:32 PM
Unfortunately I don't have any of the phone records she closed our cell plan so not sure I can get any of it. The OM isn't married works for same company but at a different location. I didn't expose on his side. Not sure if I should at this point. My family knows as well as friends.
It's ironic, since getting an assistant I've had a ridiculous amount of free time. Her brother in law (who married us) works for her family's church and I'm meeting with the head pastor this Monday.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 12:05 AM
Really not sure how to proceed from here. She's seemed to completely hardened her heart to me.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 12:24 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Unfortunately I don't have any of the phone records she closed our cell plan so not sure I can get any of it. The OM isn't married works for same company but at a different location. I didn't expose on his side. Not sure if I should at this point. My family knows as well as friends.
It's ironic, since getting an assistant I've had a ridiculous amount of free time. Her brother in law (who married us) works for her family's church and I'm meeting with the head pastor this Monday.

Yes you should definitely expose on OM�s side. Are you out of the house?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 12:47 AM
I'm in the house. Wife has packed some bags and has been gone since Sunday.
I just got home from work about an hour ago and she was standing in the driveway. Unsure of what to do I turned around and waited for her to leave.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 12:57 AM
Have you read about Plan A?
Posted By: Prisca Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 01:40 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Yes you should definitely expose on OM�s side. Are you out of the house?
Expose to the OM's side the same day you expose to the pastor.
Posted By: Prisca Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 01:41 AM
Originally Posted by Bellevue
Markos, isn't MB the secret weapon? Posts from the past always advise against letting the cheating spouse know about MB.
Markos didn't say anything about letting her know about MB .....
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 01:42 AM
I've read about Plan A and I'm reading Surviving an Affair now.
I approached her about ending the affair before, no argument no anger. Her response was a solid no. At one point she did come to me in the middle of the night, cried about all of it but no real apology, asked how it was even possible to fix it or come back from this. We talked for a bit she took our dogs out and when she came back in she was angry and told me it was done and over and she wasn't coming back. There's been mixed signals galor but plenty of her saying she was done.
I know now I pressed too much about working on it or ending it. Shes gotten extremely angry with me when she would tell me it's done and I would say ok and walk away. Or even when an argument would arise I would say I need a moment to clear my head she would get angry about me leaving the conversation.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 01:43 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Really not sure how to proceed from here. She's seemed to completely hardened her heart to me.

Cyk, are you reading my posts? I haven't seen answers to the questions I've been asking you, and they are designed to teach you the Marriage Builders program so you will know what you can do about your situation.

It's easy to scroll up and reread if you want my help, so take a look at what you might have missed and let's get started teaching you what a husband can do when his wife's heart is completely hardened.

You could've read Surviving an Affair by now since the time I first posted about it. You're falling behind, here.

ETA: Okay, I see you're reading Surviving an Affair now. Good!
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 01:44 AM
I should add I've found him on Facebook but his account is private so I'm not sure how to expose on his side.
Posted By: Prisca Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 01:49 AM
Quote
We talked for a bit she took our dogs out and when she came back in she was angry and told me it was done and over and she wasn't coming back. There's been mixed signals galor but plenty of her saying she was done.
Don't listen to her anger. It's the affair talking. EVERY WW IS ANGRY. This is typical, and has no bearing on whether you will recover or not.
She will get angrier when you expose. That's normal. Expect it. Your marriage can survive her anger.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 11:28 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Unfortunately I don't have any of the phone records she closed our cell plan so not sure I can get any of it. The OM isn't married works for same company but at a different location. I didn't expose on his side. Not sure if I should at this point. My family knows as well as friends.
It's ironic, since getting an assistant I've had a ridiculous amount of free time. Her brother in law (who married us) works for her family's church and I'm meeting with the head pastor this Monday.

Not exposing to the OM's side, including the workplace is a huge gaping hole that you can't afford to miss. Please read the Exposure 101 thread in my signature.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I've read about Plan A and I'm reading Surviving an Affair now.
I approached her about ending the affair before, no argument no anger. Her response was a solid no. At one point she did come to me in the middle of the night, cried about all of it but no real apology, asked how it was even possible to fix it or come back from this. We talked for a bit she took our dogs out and when she came back in she was angry and told me it was done and over and she wasn't coming back. There's been mixed signals galor but plenty of her saying she was done.
I know now I pressed too much about working on it or ending it. Shes gotten extremely angry with me when she would tell me it's done and I would say ok and walk away. Or even when an argument would arise I would say I need a moment to clear my head she would get angry about me leaving the conversation.


That's not a very strategic approach. Its like trying to negotiate with a falling down drunk. She is high on an affair, much like an alcoholic is drunk on alcohol. A more effective tactic is to do everything in your power to kill the affair, ie: exposure. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposing it will be your greatest weapon.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 02:30 PM
Has she actually filed for divorce?
Posted By: Bellevue Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 03:15 PM
"If your wife is not on board with MB, .... "

I went back and found the above, that was what I read, and I jumped to a conclusion about his sharing it with her; I was wrong. Didn't mean to derail the thread.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 03:58 PM
I read through most of Surviving an Affair last night. And I'm looking over the exposure 101 thread again. I need to do this with a clear head.
When she drained our bank account on Monday I panicked and called my lawyer. My auto payments for everything were set to come out Wednesday and my lawyer advised me to file for divorce to protect my self financially. I haven't served her yet. And I truly do not want to.
It turned out to be a good thing though as she tried to file a PFA against me on Tuesday afternoon. It would have barred me from being at my home or any communications with her. She called me numerous times that day, showed up at the house last night and just now texted me she would be going to the house tomorrow after work.

I'll have to search through some posts about how to expose on side. And how to expose at his work.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 04:44 PM
Hi cyk, you can get exposure tips from the exposure 101 thread. It will also give you talking points.

And yes, you need to get legal protection to protect yourself financially even if it means filing for divorce. It doesn�t mean you will end up divorced but you can�t allow her to cause permanent damage to your finances while she is out of her mind. You did the right thing in filing for divorce.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Hi cyk, you can get exposure tips from the exposure 101 thread. It will also give you talking points.

And yes, you need to get legal protection to protect yourself financially even if it means filing for divorce. It doesn�t mean you will end up divorced but you can�t allow her to cause permanent damage to your finances while she is out of her mind. You did the right thing in filing for divorce.

Thanks for the reassurance. I feel absolutely horrible about filing.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by Bellevue
"If your wife is not on board with MB, .... "

I went back and found the above, that was what I read, and I jumped to a conclusion about his sharing it with her; I was wrong. Didn't mean to derail the thread.

That's my signature! smile
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 05:34 PM
I might have missed it, but I never saw answers to these.

Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by CYk752
We've had plenty of arguments over the last several years

Quote
Any help and advice please. I'm lost and I want my wife back and to make a better marriage than what we had.

Cyk, it's imperative that you never argue with your wife. If she argues with you you need to make sure you do not argue back. Can you do this?

Quote
I'm a restaurant manager so my days are long and our time together had severely diminished.

Can you make time for her now? Not time for discussions about the house or divorce or any other conflicts or differences of opinion but time to be there for her?
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 05:34 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
We talked for a bit she took our dogs out and when she came back in she was angry and told me it was done and over and she wasn't coming back. There's been mixed signals galor but plenty of her saying she was done.
Don't listen to her anger. It's the affair talking. EVERY WW IS ANGRY. This is typical, and has no bearing on whether you will recover or not.
She will get angrier when you expose. That's normal. Expect it. Your marriage can survive her anger.

ABSOLUTELY
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 05:41 PM
Originally Posted by markos
I might have missed it, but I never saw answers to these.

Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by CYk752
We've had plenty of arguments over the last several years

Quote
Any help and advice please. I'm lost and I want my wife back and to make a better marriage than what we had.

Cyk, it's imperative that you never argue with your wife. If she argues with you you need to make sure you do not argue back. Can you do this?

Quote
I'm a restaurant manager so my days are long and our time together had severely diminished.

Can you make time for her now? Not time for discussions about the house or divorce or any other conflicts or differences of opinion but time to be there for her?

Sorry Markos thank you for your help and support.
Learning what I've been doing wrong and wanting better for our marriage. I can absolutely not argue with her. Its definitely something I need to work on but she's all the motivation I need to change myself.
I will do whatever I need to to make time for her and be there for her. Even change careers if need be. The life I want needs to be more conducive to my work not the other way around.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by Bellevue
"If your wife is not on board with MB, .... "

I went back and found the above, that was what I read, and I jumped to a conclusion about his sharing it with her; I was wrong. Didn't mean to derail the thread.

That's my signature! smile

I read through every post trying to find that!! Thanks for finding it!
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 06:34 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Originally Posted by markos
I might have missed it, but I never saw answers to these.

Originally Posted by markos
Originally Posted by CYk752
We've had plenty of arguments over the last several years

Quote
Any help and advice please. I'm lost and I want my wife back and to make a better marriage than what we had.

Cyk, it's imperative that you never argue with your wife. If she argues with you you need to make sure you do not argue back. Can you do this?

Quote
I'm a restaurant manager so my days are long and our time together had severely diminished.

Can you make time for her now? Not time for discussions about the house or divorce or any other conflicts or differences of opinion but time to be there for her?

Sorry Markos thank you for your help and support.
Learning what I've been doing wrong and wanting better for our marriage. I can absolutely not argue with her. Its definitely something I need to work on but she's all the motivation I need to change myself.
I will do whatever I need to to make time for her and be there for her. Even change careers if need be. The life I want needs to be more conducive to my work not the other way around.

Can you keep yourself from arguing with her? Do you believe that's something you are able to do at this present time?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 07:05 PM
I can hold back from arguing. I don't think I can keep my emotions in check around her right now though. I still have the urge to talk about working it out and that's the wrong approach I should be taking.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/11/18 08:21 PM
Okay, you're demonstrating good insight there. Let me tell you that in 8 years on this website I have yet to see any husband here save his marriage by persuading his wife to work on it. That will absolutely turn her away.

So learn what Dr. Harley has to say about how to keep your emotions in check. You might check out ongoing threads here about anger mangement, as that is basically the same issue in learning to stay relaxed.

The way you save your marriage is a two pronged approach
1) disrupt the affair, primarily through exposure
2) change the way your wife feels about you, by making love bank deposits and avoiding love bank withdrawals. Notice that this doesn't include trying to lecture her about working it out at all. (Also note that it doesn't rule out part 1 there - do disrupt the affair, even if it makes her angry!)
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/12/18 08:32 PM
So I'm at work today and my wife called and texted me. Said she's back at the house and we should talk, but not in person. She doesn't want me to return to the house since she's back.
Any advice?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/12/18 09:41 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
So I'm at work today and my wife called and texted me. Said she's back at the house and we should talk, but not in person. She doesn't want me to return to the house since she's back.
Any advice?


Go home. Refuse to leave your home.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 02:47 AM
Got home and she wanted to talk about how to make the divorce amicable. She's in purgatory and wants to move on. Her words.
I ended the conversation when she started to get mad. Kept my cool and emotions in check.
Didnt really have a game plan in mind when I walked through the door. She said we need to figure out how to make our living situation work because it's unfair for either one of us to leave.
I want to see hope in her being here and saying she's staying but I have this sense of dread that it's ending.
How do I even talk to her now. Let alone stop divorce.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 08:49 AM
You did great by not playing along with her fantasy and not playing the part of the enemy either. If you can similarly keep your cool while shes hopping mad with exposure, thats another hit for you. I think it's significant that OM is not exposed (they are not hard to run off usually) but I can't figure out that darn order of yours. How is it worded and what does it ask of you?

You can't really talk WITH a wayward, you have to sorta talk AT them.

-I would tell her you love her and you aren't getting divorced or moving out (and don't say this, but she doesn't need your agreement to do so herself and it's a weird insistence on her part. She can figure it out herself without a divorce cheerleader).
-Responses to her disagreeing can be anything from 'well that's heart breaking news ' to 'I understand ' to 'huh, do you want a cookie?' Anything so long as its not getting mad. Leaving is a good tactic.
- Move back into your house AND your bed. If she wants to sleep somewhere else let her do it. But that's a silent message.
-if she talks about being in pain, or purgatory, plop some ice cream in front of her, tell her youre still her best friend and you want to hear all about it. No matter how cuckoo her words, listen with soothing noises. It will make lovebank deposits.

And Yeah, permanently park the relationship talk.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 12:05 PM
So turns out she was never able to get a PFA order against me. She inquired about it but it was kicked back because I had filed for divorce already.
After telling her we would talk under different circumstances I went to the bedroom. She approached me 3 more times demanding we talk. She was still angry and calling me names so I kept telling her we would talk when we could have a conversation. She told me to go F myself wouldn't let me near our 2 dogs.
In the middle of the night I woke up to her crying pretty heavily. Came out of the bedroom to her on the phone with her sister. I took the dogs out and got a glass of water Andres she locked herself in the bedroom.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 02:15 PM
Stay home. Expose the affair! Don't let her drag you into a fight. She will be trying very hard to pick fights with you and you can't let her do that.

Where are you in your exposures?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 05:46 PM
In addition to MelodyLane�s direction get a VAR (voice activated recorder) and keep it on you at all times to protect yourself from false DV charges.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 06:46 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Stay home. Expose the affair! Don't let her drag you into a fight. She will be trying very hard to pick fights with you and you can't let her do that.

Where are you in your exposures?

Her family and close friends know as well my family. She had told her father that someone at her work told hr about her affair. I've thought about exposing to her work on my side but not sure. The OM is a manager as well but at another location so not sure if it goes against company policy.
She keeps insisting that her wanting a divorce isn't because of another's man but that she's no longer happy or in love with me and doesn't want to continue with how things have been. But still wants to date other people.
She had said last night that given all that's happened in such a short time that it was impossible to work it out or continue being married.
I don't want to believe her but man it's daggers.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 07:21 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She keeps insisting that her wanting a divorce isn't because of another's man but that she's no longer happy or in love with me and doesn't want to continue with how things have been. But still wants to date other people.
And my neighbour keeps insisting that her weight gain isn't because of all the food she's been eating.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
So turns out she was never able to get a PFA order against me. She inquired about it but it was kicked back because I had filed for divorce already..

hurray

Expose the heck out of this affair then!

Phew. I thought that was weird. From what I googled you need proof of abuse. This has now become standard operating procedure. Expose!

Use the steps on 101 exactly.

Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 08:32 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
. She approached me 3 more times demanding we talk. She was still angry and calling me names so I kept telling her we would talk when we could have a conversation. She told me to go F myself wouldn't let me near our 2 dogs.
In the middle of the night I woke up to her crying pretty heavily. Came out of the bedroom to her on the phone with her sister. I took the dogs out and got a glass of water Andres she locked herself in the bedroom.

Looks like someone is throwing her toys out of the crib.

While she does that, you expose.

Originally Posted by CYk752
Her family and close friends know as well my family. She had told her father that someone at her work told hr about her affair. I've thought about exposing to her work on my side but not sure. The OM is a manager as well but at another location so not sure if it goes against company policy..

Hit as many people as you can all in one go. Their response doesn't really matter and it doesn't matter what the company's policy is either. You're just trying to create a tsunami of 'people who can see whatcha doin' all in one go. Her boss will probably quiz her and his boss will quiz him even if nothing will be formally done and how much fun is that? Even the people who already know can be encouraged to stand with you and join the intervention on exposures day.

Originally Posted by CYk752
She keeps insisting that her wanting a divorce isn't because of another's man but that she's no longer happy or in love with me and doesn't want to continue with how things have been. But still wants to date other people.
She had said last night that given all that's happened in such a short time that it was impossible to work it out or continue being married.
I don't want to believe her but man it's daggers.

Yawn, yawn, yawn. That's directly taken from the greatest hits of things all waywards say.

Just bing back with 'Honey I don't blame you for not believing a change is possible, but keep your eyes peeled because you're going to see some big changes'

Keep cool and confident and remember that her mood swings are just the addiction and shame of the affair. Handle her gently and steer through.

The crying jags are quite typical too.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 10:25 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Stay home. Expose the affair! Don't let her drag you into a fight. She will be trying very hard to pick fights with you and you can't let her do that.

Where are you in your exposures?

Her family and close friends know as well my family. She had told her father that someone at her work told hr about her affair. I've thought about exposing to her work on my side but not sure. The OM is a manager as well but at another location so not sure if it goes against company policy.

I am confused. Didn't we tell you to expose at work? To expose to the OM's side of the family? Where are you with that?

There is absolutely no need to continue to give you advice if you don't take it. Where are you with this?

Quote
She keeps insisting that her wanting a divorce isn't because of another's man but that she's no longer happy or in love with me and doesn't want to continue with how things have been. But still wants to date other people.
She had said last night that given all that's happened in such a short time that it was impossible to work it out or continue being married.
I don't want to believe her but man it's daggers.

This is all affair fogbabble that you should ignore and not waste our time posting. We could have told you she feels this way because ALL waywards high on an affair say the sme thing!!

So, exposure???
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 10:27 PM
Are you serious about saving your marriage? If so, then stop posting meaningless fogbabble and FOLLOW THE PLAN. We can't help you if you don't follow the advice. If you won't follow the advice, then i view this as a hopeless situation.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 11:36 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
So turns out she was never able to get a PFA order against me. She inquired about it but it was kicked back because I had filed for divorce already.
After telling her we would talk under different circumstances I went to the bedroom. She approached me 3 more times demanding we talk. She was still angry and calling me names so I kept telling her we would talk when we could have a conversation. She told me to go F myself wouldn't let me near our 2 dogs.
In the middle of the night I woke up to her crying pretty heavily. Came out of the bedroom to her on the phone with her sister. I took the dogs out and got a glass of water Andres she locked herself in the bedroom.

When Prisca locked me out of the bedroom I simply popped the door open and calmly went back in and didn't argue with her. I didn't deserve to be locked out of my bedroom.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 11:38 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She keeps insisting that her wanting a divorce isn't because of another's man but that she's no longer happy or in love with me and doesn't want to continue with how things have been. But still wants to date other people.

Yes, yes, they all say that, whatever. Stick to the plan.

(Are you learning the plan?)
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/13/18 11:40 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Got home and she wanted to talk about how to make the divorce amicable.

Divorces aren't amicable, so decline that conversation.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 03:21 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Are you serious about saving your marriage? If so, then stop posting meaningless fogbabble and FOLLOW THE PLAN. We can't help you if you don't follow the advice. If you won't follow the advice, then i view this as a hopeless situation.

Thank you for the support and advice.
Since I've had a set back with evidence. She's rest passwords on our computers to block me from spying. Canceled our cell plan so phone records are gone. She's also rest her iTunes/iPhone passwords so I'm working on that.
I met with our pastor today and told him the situation. I've sent out PMs to our friends and extended family via Facebook/email today.
I'm trying to find how to expose on his side. I will be sending an email tomorrow to WS and OMs jobs-HR vp, employee relations manager and their direct supervisors.
I'm doing my best to get on track with the plan and make this work
After sending the Facebook messages I did have several of our friends tell me I was being a horrible person by spreading our business around and shaming my wife. I reiterated that I want nothing more than to save our marriage but the affair had to end.
One of her friends said she talked with my wife and showed her what I sent. Wife denied and said that's not why she wants a divorce and that I'm just trying to slander her. Her parents both texted me about how I was ruining her life by sending the messages out.
I didn't expect to get any responses or so quick. I'll wrap up with their jobs tomorrow.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 06:57 AM
Keep a close eye on those friends who are being defensive. It's likely they knew about the affair the whole time.

Every time your wife lies to a friend she makes pursuing the affair a little less possible.

I'm sorry you are under siege but get it all over with in one shot. Since you've started exposures you need to get OMs exposures done quickly. Call a PI if you have to.
Posted By: chalkncheese Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 11:05 AM
Hi CYK, Don't let those negative responses deter you. There are lots of people in the world who believe that everyone's nasty behaviour should be kept secret so that no one has to be embarrassed - and that if people do somehow become embarrased, it is the fault of the person who revealed the behaviour, with no thought of blame on the person actually engaging in it. I was shocked to find how many of my friends and family, and my WH's friends and family, actually hold this view. Finding this out about people shows you who will support your marriage in future and who won't, which is vauable information. You're doing a great job! Keep going.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I'm sorry you are under siege but get it all over with in one shot.

Yes. She will be mad, and you will not want to go through this more than once.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 05:24 PM
Any advice on the best way to email OMs work? My wife and he work for same organization but at different locations and doing some digging it seems he's higher up.
Any thoughts on Email wording who to send too?
Again thank you all for the help and advice.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 05:30 PM
"Expose to Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both of the affairee�s supervisors"

HR is still a good target even if he's higher up. You may need the CEO, MD or board of directors if he's super high. Whoever his boss would be.
Posted By: Prisca Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 05:31 PM
Workplace exposure: Expose to Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both of the affairee�s supervisors using the template letter posted below.

Workplace exposure letter - be sure and send to 3 key people and cc each on the letter. Good targets would be the Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both affairee's supervisor. This can be sent via registered letter or even via email!

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney--

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,
_________________________

Workplace Exposure, in Exposure 101

Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 05:33 PM
This was written by BritsBrat, a lawyer and is on the exposure 101 thread:

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and OM are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and OM are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,"
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 05:39 PM
Lol snap
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 05:54 PM
Thanks for the quick feedback. I was gonna send the exact letter you posted but wasn't sure if was right. Filling in names now and will send shortly.
I hope I'm not too late doing all this I really wish I had found this sight sooner. how often do you all hear that.
I guess I know who our friends really are. Woke up to some replies back this morning that I should just let her go and that I'm harassing her.
She went to a realtor friend today to set up an appointment and have him appraise our house so she can just move on. But in same breath asked me to watch the dogs this weekend while she attended a woman's retreat.
Posted By: Prisca Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 06:44 PM
Are you sending the letter today?
The faster you get this done, the more effective it will be.
Posted By: LMH Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 06:46 PM
Inner strength CY!
I found it helpful when someone described WW as an alien who replaced your W. She will say all sorts of things and not bother to make sense.

Keep a cool head, much as you can, would recommend ignoring or unfriending people who send unsupportive responses - you know who they are now, and guess what you don't need them for anything.

It is her affair that damages (far from ruins, actually I would say) her reputation, not the knowledge of it. Did the crime, do the time.

I got a little off topic here - my main point is that I would assume anything she says about anything is a lie unless she has woken up and is remorseful, willing to do whatever to save the marriage.

Get 7-8 hours of sleep, eat appropriately, look your best (shave, dress smart, etc), get some exercise (for mental health and physical benefits), be confident no matter how you feel, make yourself pleasant to be around, do not get sucked into arguments. Do express your love for her, but do not cave to demands.

Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
Are you sending the letter today?
The faster you get this done, the more effective it will be.
Just sent email to OMs work.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/15/18 09:40 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Thanks for the quick feedback. I was gonna send the exact letter you posted but wasn't sure if was right. Filling in names now and will send shortly.
I hope I'm not too late doing all this I really wish I had found this sight sooner. how often do you all hear that.
I guess I know who our friends really are. Woke up to some replies back this morning that I should just let her go and that I'm harassing her.
She went to a realtor friend today to set up an appointment and have him appraise our house so she can just move on. But in same breath asked me to watch the dogs this weekend while she attended a woman's retreat.


You are doing great!! She is going to be with her OM this weekend. You should let her know you won't agree to sell the house. Just say, "I am not going anywhere and don't agree to sell the house."

Did you expose to the OM's family? If not, get that knocked out NOW! It will ruin the affair if his parents know your wife is a very married woman.

And just ignore the naysayers. You don't need the approval of crapwits and anyone who would condone an affair is not friend material anyway.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 01:02 AM
I haven't exposed to OMs family or friends trying to figure that one out. His last post on FB was in 2017 and not many likes or comments.
I want to believe she's going on the retreat she booked it before all this came up and was really looking forward to it. But your right I can't believe anything she says or does at this point.
Searching post all day about dealing with WS family not being supportive. I'm not trying to make this a me vs her issue or pick sides. Blood is alwasys thicker than water. But damn. I'm putting up a VAR device in the house to see what else I can get.
I want this affair to end and fast.
What happens if exposure doesn't work? Than what? I don't want to behind the 8 ball again and I should have exposed the minute I found out. Instead I've been enabling this and pushing her further into his arms with my mistakes from the beginning.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 02:42 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
What happens if exposure doesn't work? Than what? I don't want to behind the 8 ball again and I should have exposed the minute I found out. Instead I've been enabling this and pushing her further into his arms with my mistakes from the beginning.

Exposure is your last best hope. It might not kill the affair right away, but it can have the effect of hastening it's death. The longer you wait, the less effective, but it is your best shot. i would take this very seriously and do a comprehensive exposure to the OM's friends and family. Especially his parents!
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 02:51 AM
Exposure is likely to speed things up, which is hopefully going to be the end of the affair. Find out who OM's parents are and contact them directly. As MelodyLane said, let them know their son is seeing a married woman.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 03:04 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Searching post all day about dealing with WS family not being supportive.

There's not a whole lot to do to deal with such people. Let people make up their own minds how they are going to respond; don't try to persuade them to see it your way. The good news is whether they support you or do not support you, they will still put pressure on the affair.

I didn't have the benefit of Dr. Harley's advice in the early 1990s when I found out my mother was having an affair and exposed her to her mother. I had no way of knowing that her mother had had her own string of affairs. I certainly didn't expect her mother to give me a lecture about being a religious hypocrite after I told her about my mother's affair. But despite the fact that the woman stood for adultery all of her life and appeared to side against me, witnesses to that event told me that after I left she lit into my mother like nobody's business!
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 06:05 AM
Are his parents on Facebook? Have you tried googling the surname and location? Looked them up in the phone book or looked at electoral roll?

Don't waste time searching what it means if W's family is not supportive! It just means you need to be wary of them in the future.

You still have a good shot with exposure because an exposed affair is not fun.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Are his parents on Facebook? Have you tried googling the surname and location? Looked them up in the phone book or looked at electoral roll?

Don't waste time searching what it means if W's family is not supportive! It just means you need to be wary of them in the future.

You still have a good shot with exposure because an exposed affair is not fun.
Found his Grandmother on Facebook and sent out messages to her and all Family members still a couple more to go still no luck finding his parents though.
Posted By: abrrba Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 02:53 PM
Try looking up the OM, his grandparents, or any other known relatives on one of the following sites, this will give you a list of names to check against. (i.e. it shows list of people who might be related to the person you searched for). These sites (and others) will give you age range for individuals, so you can further narrow it down. They usually list cities the person probably lived in. If you know where his parents might live but not their full name, search their town name and "assessors database". Most towns have their tax assessments searchable online. You can use these to search for last name and town name. If they have an uncommon last name, they'll be easier to track down. If you're certain of the name of a relative but cannot get a phone# or email address, the tax assessors database can turn up a physical address. You can then mail them a letter.

http://whitepages.com
http://intellius.com
http://spokeo.com
https://www.anywho.com/whitepages

With a little effort, it's remarkable how easy it can be to find people via public sources.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 04:23 PM
The grandmother is a good target.

Do you have the first and last name of the parents? If so Google "first name, last name" in quotation marks + (location).

Try this with grandmother's name too, you might turn up a family notice or local news item which mentions the parents. Obituaries are a good source

You could maybe find a parents name by looking up the grandmothers name/address on an old electoral roll to see if they had adult children registered there. (You can do this in the UK, not sure about your location)

Don't forget jobs and hobbies! If grandmother or anyone mentions the parent's profession or hobby Google their name in quotations along with their profession/club/interest.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 04:23 PM
Originally Posted by abrrba
Try looking up the OM, his grandparents, or any other known relatives on one of the following sites, this will give you a list of names to check against. (i.e. it shows list of people who might be related to the person you searched for). These sites (and others) will give you age range for individuals, so you can further narrow it down. They usually list cities the person probably lived in. If you know where his parents might live but not their full name, search their town name and "assessors database". Most towns have their tax assessments searchable online. You can use these to search for last name and town name. If they have an uncommon last name, they'll be easier to track down. If you're certain of the name of a relative but cannot get a phone# or email address, the tax assessors database can turn up a physical address. You can then mail them a letter.

http://whitepages.com
http://intellius.com
http://spokeo.com
https://www.anywho.com/whitepages

With a little effort, it's remarkable how easy it can be to find people via public sources.

This is awesome.
Posted By: abrrba Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 04:41 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Obituaries are a good source

Yes, obituaries are a very good source. Try both "firstname lastname" + obituary + town, or without the quotes. If the OM is referenced in the obit, the lastname may be omitted if he has the same last name as the deceased, so search with both the quotes and without. If you get a match, you'll be able to identify parents, brothers, sisters, and in laws.
Posted By: abrrba Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by abrrba
Try looking up the OM, his grandparents, or any other known relatives on one of the following sites, this will give you a list of names to check against. (i.e. it shows list of people who might be related to the person you searched for). These sites (and others) will give you age range for individuals, so you can further narrow it down. They usually list cities the person probably lived in. If you know where his parents might live but not their full name, search their town name and "assessors database". Most towns have their tax assessments searchable online. You can use these to search for last name and town name. If they have an uncommon last name, they'll be easier to track down. If you're certain of the name of a relative but cannot get a phone# or email address, the tax assessors database can turn up a physical address. You can then mail them a letter.

http://whitepages.com
http://intellius.com
http://spokeo.com
https://www.anywho.com/whitepages

With a little effort, it's remarkable how easy it can be to find people via public sources.

This is awesome.

Thanks, indie! I was always good at searching for stuff on the web (even back in the early 90s before the advent of search engines). But I got better at finding/identifying people after d-day. It freaks my kids out a bit. smile Within 10 minutes of my daughter telling me the name of her first boyfriend, I could tell her where he went to school, his jersey # on the soccer team, what he was selling on OfferUp, the kind of cars his parents own, etc. "Creepy, dad!"
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by abrrba
Within 10 minutes of my daughter telling me the name of her first boyfriend, I could tell her where he went to school, his jersey # on the soccer team, what he was selling on OfferUp, the kind of cars his parents own, etc. "Creepy, dad!"

Useful!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 06:03 PM
Awesome spy tips!!! Thanks abbra and indie!
Posted By: abrrba Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/16/18 09:03 PM

In the event that you can't find an email address or phone# for OM's relatives, you can pay for a background check. When I exposed my WW, I could not find a contact# for OMW. I purchased a background check on one of the above sites, and it provided two or three phone numbers, but they were out of date. I purchased a 2nd background check from one of the others on this list, and it gave a phone number which turned out to be OMW work number. The price is usually around $15-30, and they sometimes offer a more expensive, in depth background check. These might offer criminal background checks in all 50 states, instead of 1 state. I purchased these more expensive background checks on OM1 and OM2, as I wanted to make sure WW wasn't exposing my kids to a felon.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/17/18 04:10 PM
Still no luck finding OMs parents great advice though and I will be pursuing all ends. Sent a couple hundred messages through FB to his friends list all day yesterday.
Got home last night and wife wanted to spend sometime together which was a shock. She originally started off by talking about what selling the house and splitting up would be but changed very quickly to add that she was more open to working on things than she's been. But she wasn't sure what that meant yet.
I'm awaiting fallout from exposusing to their jobs, I don't think it will go over to well.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/17/18 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Got home last night and wife wanted to spend sometime together which was a shock.

My guess would be that they need to keep you from finishing exposures with his parents because it would then be game over. This is a great sign that this target is your golden ticket.Sometimes a wayward will get all friendly so you'll stop mid exposure. She'll slow you down while OM begins to drop into conversation with his parents that theres a crazy jealous husband trashing him everywhere. Once he's done, then she'll turn like a weather vane.

If you aren't getting anything online then I would call up a PI to get you some basic details. Quickly. While he's doing that, take advantage of the lull in the battle to make your wife dinner and make some deposits.
Posted By: chalkncheese Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/17/18 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Sometimes a wayward will get all friendly so you'll stop mid exposure.

Hi CYK, I just wanted to emphasise this comment of Indie's. My WH went totally crazy for a very short time, and then was suddenly all charm, booking us flights for a weekend away together 3 days later, telling me spending time with me was more important than anything else to him. It was all a trick to get me to stop exposing and stop investigating his affair. He also "agreed" to all my conditions - only his version of agreeing meant saying yes while doing totally the opposite. There's an article in the articles section of the main website that describes a wayward doing his best to pretend to his wife that he is sorry just so that he can go back to his affair. I'll find the link in a minute.
Posted By: chalkncheese Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/17/18 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by chalkncheese
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Sometimes a wayward will get all friendly so you'll stop mid exposure.

Hi CYK, I just wanted to emphasise this comment of Indie's. My WH went totally crazy for a very short time, and then was suddenly all charm, booking us flights for a weekend away together 3 days later, telling me spending time with me was more important than anything else to him. It was all a trick to get me to stop exposing and stop investigating his affair. He also "agreed" to all my conditions - only his version of agreeing meant saying yes while doing totally the opposite. There's an article in the articles section of the main website that describes a wayward doing his best to pretend to his wife that he is sorry just so that he can go back to his affair. I'll find the link in a minute.

Here's the link. The article is How to Surive an Affair. https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8001_affair.html

I thought the description of how Alex reassures his OW Harriet that he will smooth things over with his wife so that they can be together again was really insightful for BSs about how misleading wayward's words and actions can be. Don't let anything deter you from doing the fullest exposure you can. There really are no downsides.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/21/18 02:24 AM
Wife found out about the email to his work it was forwarded to hers and she's been suspended.
I thought last time about exposing to family and friends she was mad but she's devastated. Granted everything she's said was what everyone said she would but damn.
What do I do now. What's the next step.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/21/18 12:26 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Wife found out about the email to his work it was forwarded to hers and she's been suspended.
I thought last time about exposing to family and friends she was mad but she's devastated. Granted everything she's said was what everyone said she would but damn.
What do I do now. What's the next step.


That is great news!! Hopefully you have wrapped up your exposures. Have you been in touch yet with the OM's parents?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/21/18 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Wife found out about the email to his work it was forwarded to hers and she's been suspended.
.

That's weird that she's the punished one given he is her superior? Hopefully they've both been suspended?

Nevertheless it's a stroke of luck for you. Her removal from the home of the affair, with all its memories and triggers will help your recovery - if you get there.

Next step? EXPOSE OM. I don't know how it went finding his parents? This should be a snap given you have the grandparents details; can you do it or do you need a PI?

Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/21/18 07:58 PM
Didn't find OMs parents found a sister who's married. Sent to everyone I could.
I think they were both suspended but I'm not sure.
She's pretty furious. Not sure how to proceed with recovery efforts from here.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/21/18 09:29 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Didn't find OMs parents found a sister who's married. Sent to everyone I could.
I think they were both suspended but I'm not sure.
She's pretty furious. Not sure how to proceed with recovery efforts from here.

Just let her know that you are willing to work on the marriage if she will end her affair. She will tell you to go to hell at first, but you need to bide your time. As she withdraws from the OM, she will draw to you. You should be in Plan A at this time, which means you don't fight, don't argue, and put forth your very best foot. As her affair crumbles and she sobers up from the affair, she will notice.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/21/18 10:46 PM
So OM wants to press legal action for exposing to his work and family and friends.
She continues to want to talk or rather scream and yell and push. I've walked away numerous times. She went to my lawyer today to get the divorce papers.
I'm trying to give space and formulate Plan A. Today is really tough.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/21/18 10:50 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Didn't find OMs parents found a sister who's married. Sent to everyone I could.
.

You really need to speak to them. Will any of the people you contacted put them in touch?


Originally Posted by CYk752
.
She's pretty furious. Not sure how to proceed with recovery efforts from here.

Oh excellent! I've been waiting for her to get mad.

This is the ideal opportunity to show her you're unflappable, even tempered and considerate in the face of fire and fury!


Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/21/18 10:55 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
So OM wants to press legal action for exposing to his work and family and friends.

That's great!! Tell him you will be glad to have this broadcast in a open court. [where it is likely to be picked up by the news] You can ask for discovery and get him interrogated under oath! In truth, most waywards make this threat and I have never seen one follow through in 17 years because they have more to lose. First off, the truth is a defense for libel and slander and he knows you have him by the balls.

Quote
She continues to want to talk or rather scream and yell and push. I've walked away numerous times. She went to my lawyer today to get the divorce papers.
I'm trying to give space and formulate Plan A. Today is really tough.

Just hang in there and ride this out. Your marriage can survive her anger over exposure, it cannot survive an ongoing affair. She is lashing out in anger right now.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/21/18 11:23 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
So OM wants to press legal action for exposing to his work and family and friends.

That's great!! Tell him you will be glad to have this broadcast in a open court. [where it is likely to be picked up by the news] You can ask for discovery and get him interrogated under oath! In truth, most waywards make this threat and I have never seen one follow through in 17 years because they have more to lose. First off, the truth is a defense for libel and slander and he knows you have him by the balls.

Oh I missed this bit. They're cute when they're predictable.

Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/21/18 11:37 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
So OM wants to press legal action for exposing to his work and family and friends.

That's great!! Tell him you will be glad to have this broadcast in a open court. [where it is likely to be picked up by the news] You can ask for discovery and get him interrogated under oath! In truth, most waywards make this threat and I have never seen one follow through in 17 years because they have more to lose. First off, the truth is a defense for libel and slander and he knows you have him by the balls.

Quote
She continues to want to talk or rather scream and yell and push. I've walked away numerous times. She went to my lawyer today to get the divorce papers.
I'm trying to give space and formulate Plan A. Today is really tough.

Just hang in there and ride this out. Your marriage can survive her anger over exposure, it cannot survive an ongoing affair. She is lashing out in anger right now.

Good to hear!
Thanks for the support from everyone!
Sorry to keep making a play by play. But this is pretty helpful posting here.
She's pretty adamant that what I've done is horrible and dragging him into this was pointless because it wasn't an affair she already wanted out of the marriage. She's said what's been posted and it's predictable "how could I be with you after telling everyone" "what's the point of doing this" "how isn't dragging my name through mud supposed to make me stay married" "all those message she make you look like a crazy person and an a****le!"
"If I get fired how am I supposed to stay with you"
I'm trying to stay calm and cool but I'm not sure how to respond.
Riding out the storm...
Posted By: chalkncheese Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 06:17 AM
Don't worry about the legal threats CYK. I was actually sued by OW - she is bonkers - but now, one year on, she is trying to retract it (although I won't let her :D). Anger is hot and immediate; legal stuff is slow. No wayward will really want to spend their money and time focusing on the spouse of their affair partner when the affair crumbles.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 11:41 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
[
"If I get fired how am I supposed to stay with you"
I'm trying to stay calm and cool but I'm not sure how to respond.
Riding out the storm...

The irony is that if she doesnt' lose/quit that job you can't stay together because your marriage will never recover. NEVER. The biggest risk to your marriage is her staying at that job, so you should hope and pray she loses the job. That is your best chance at saving your marriage. Just keep riding it out and don't let her drag you into a fight. You are doing great!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 11:43 AM
p.s. if she loses her job it will be due to her unprofessional behavior.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 01:59 PM
So exposure hit its mark on OM. I spoke with his sisters husband who called me yesterday (who's in the military) had plenty to say about it all. OM asked my wife for my contact info to ask me to leave him alone. He did end up calling his local police spoke with a detective last night. I Explained the situation and that I had exposed my wife's affair. He laughed about OM feeling threatened. He did advise me to end all communication though as a courtesy call.
I'm rereading SAA mainly about reconciliation and Love Busters/Love Bank Deposits.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
So exposure hit its mark on OM. I spoke with his sisters husband who called me yesterday (who's in the military) had plenty to say about it all. OM asked my wife for my contact info to ask me to leave him alone. He did end up calling his local police spoke with a detective last night. I Explained the situation and that I had exposed my wife's affair. He laughed about OM feeling threatened. He did advise me to end all communication though as a courtesy call.
I'm rereading SAA mainly about reconciliation and Love Busters/Love Bank Deposits.

Great job!! The OM is a jerk. So now the police know about his affair, how smart is that? grin

Your best hope for recovery is your wife losing her job. I hope you know that. That will set you up for recovery in the future.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
So exposure hit its mark on OM. I spoke with his sisters husband who called me yesterday (who's in the military) had plenty to say about it all. .

Yay! What did he say? Will he put you in touch with his in laws?

Originally Posted by CYk752
. OM asked my wife for my contact info to ask me to leave him alone.

I betcha that was a fun date.

Originally Posted by CYk752
. He did end up calling his local police spoke with a detective last night. .

I would love to sit in on an average day in the copshop to see how many loons try this daily. The OW in my case sent me a message that it was slander (it wasnt. The exposure was not spoken it was written messages, so if it had been untrue it would have been libel) warned I 'better have proof' because she was going to the police (slander/libel isn't a police matter). My messenger asked if I had a response and I just said it sounded like OW needed some legal coaching but that I couldn't oblige.


Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
"how could I be with you after telling everyone" "what's the point of doing this" "how isn't dragging my name through mud supposed to make me stay married" "all those message she make you look like a crazy person and an a****le!"
"If I get fired how am I supposed to stay with you"
I'm trying to stay calm and cool but I'm not sure how to respond.
Riding out the storm...

Usually shrugging and offering tea is fine. But if you want to be fancy:

"I know this is horribly embarrassing for you (don't say 'because OM is a schmuck' or 'what did you think would happen, I'd cover for you?'), tell me what you're afraid of and how I can support you'
"You can do what you like about the marriage! I hope you'll let me give you a GREAT one - but its your call"
"You're breaking my heart. I have a right to ask for support when I'm losing the best thing that ever happened to me."

That tends to cut through their veneer. Don't forget the oldie but goodie of just responding 'so do you want a movie/cookie/dinner Its fine if she storms off. That's to be expected. She has two worlds colliding right now.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 03:16 PM
Talked with his brother in law for about 30 min. OMs Father has done similar things in the past parents are separated. He felt terrible about the whole situation and talked with OMs sister. OM states that I've humiliated him to his family and friends. Not my problem don't do things your ashamed of.
My wife still wanted to talk last night which I take is a good sign she never stormed off but I walked away whenever she started to get mad or yell. I'm not going to allow myself to get into those situations anymore it's unhelpful to us and bad for me.
Great responses I've been struggling with what to reply to her with. I did get a kick out of it when she was yelling and how hurt she was I asked if she wanted some tea. Blindsided at its best.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 03:17 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She's pretty adamant that what I've done is horrible

Whatever.

Quote
and dragging him into this was pointless because it wasn't an affair she already wanted out of the marriage.

Whatever. Divorces are easy to get if she wants one. But don't say that to her.

Quote
She's said what's been posted and it's predictable "how could I be with you after telling everyone" "what's the point of doing this" "how isn't dragging my name through mud supposed to make me stay married" "all those message she make you look like a crazy person and an a****le!"
"If I get fired how am I supposed to stay with you"
I'm trying to stay calm and cool but I'm not sure how to respond.

Remember that nobody saves his marriage by persuading his wife of anything. Don't worry about responding. You don't need to convince her to believe exposure was the right thing to do. Just keep making love bank deposits and avoiding love bank withdrawals, and let her know you love her and have no intention of sharing her.
Posted By: Prisca Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 03:25 PM
"I love you and I'm not willing to share you."
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 05:15 PM
Cyk, you are getting great advice! I would suggest you get his mother's phone # and give her a call and see if you can enlist her help? That will be a death blow to the affair if your wife finds out that his mother knows she is a married woman. She will be ashamed to face her which will ruin the affair. Keep the pressure on!! You are doing great!
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 06:28 PM
From the convo with his brother in law sounds like his mom hasn't been around in years so I think it's a dead end.
I need to get a handle on making love bank deposits and rebuilding from here.
She got divorce papers this morning so I need to put a hold on this.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 06:55 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
From the convo with his brother in law sounds like his mom hasn't been around in years so I think it's a dead end.
I need to get a handle on making love bank deposits and rebuilding from here.
She got divorce papers this morning so I need to put a hold on this.

What do you need to put a hold on? The fact that she got divorce papers means nothing other than she wants to SCARE you; so you will stop I interfering in her affair. You need to put aside your fear and do what is right for your marriage. You will not win if you choose to operate on emotions (fear) instead of a plan. You have NOTHING to lose and everything to gain at this point.

Do everything you can to wreck the affair while showing your best side. Cobtacting the OMs mother can be a powerful weapon against the affair. If that were my son I would give him and his OW holy hell. It will also greatly discourage your wife from s affair.

Put aside your fear, My friend.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
From the convo with his brother in law sounds like his mom hasn't been around in years so I think it's a dead end.
I need to get a handle on making love bank deposits and rebuilding from here.
She got divorce papers this morning so I need to put a hold on this.

What do you need to put a hold on? The fact that she got divorce papers means nothing other than she wants to SCARE you; so you will stop I interfering in her affair. You need to put aside your fear and do what is right for your marriage. You will not win if you choose to operate on emotions (fear) instead of a plan. You have NOTHING to lose and everything to gain at this point.

Do everything you can to wreck the affair while showing your best side. Cobtacting the OMs mother can be a powerful weapon against the affair. If that were my son I would give him and his OW holy hell. It will also greatly discourage your wife from s affair.

Put aside your fear, My friend.

You're right. I'm scared of the divorce. And yeah there is nothing else to loose.
Like I said I asked OMs brother in law about his parents they haven't seen or spoken to his mother in over 5 years and it sounded like the dad was a POS and kicked to the curb by they family years ago. I contacted aunts and uncles cousins etc, grandmother was a big one though. His sister also got in touch with me after speaking to her husband. Was furious that her brother would act like their dad.
In a voicemail he left me-I destroyed his career, his relationship with friends and his family now hates him. All over some woman who doesn't mean anything to him or love me. I should probably play that for her.
But ultimately yes I'm scared of the divorce and want to stop it. But I'll take any and all advice I can. I will end the affair first and foremost.
Posted By: chalkncheese Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/22/18 07:50 PM
CYK, Don't be scared of her initiating a divorce - it takes MONTHS if not YEARS! Even if she files papers in anger, you just focus on love bank deposits and as soon as she realises how much money and time it costs her - and you won't let her have a quickie divorce because why make it easy for her to run away? - while you start looking like a really attractive option because you are being the best husband, she will rethink. Ignore what she is doing and focus on attacking the affair (exposure) while making as many love bank deposits as possible.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/23/18 05:57 AM
I had a niggling fear the BiL was a plant from OM whose job it was to tell you not to bother with the parents. That is common. Can the grandmother put you in touch or confirm what he's saying?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/23/18 05:57 AM
Most definitely repeat his words!
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/23/18 01:56 PM
I'll keep looking into it for his parents. You're right no point in not following all the way through.
I made a point to play through some voicemails through speaker phone while in the kitchen last night so wife could "over hear"
Haven't heard anything from there work and she's going into today for a meeting. I take it as a sign no real action will come from exposing, but now nearly everyone I could get in touch with that she supervises knows about the affair.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/23/18 02:23 PM
The work result you were mainly after is her shame, which you got. But it would be awesome if they canned her.

Yeah, the parents; my antennae is really up on that one because it seems like OM is reeeaaaally trying to stop you hitting a particular target.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/23/18 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I'll keep looking into it for his parents. You're right no point in not following all the way through.
I made a point to play through some voicemails through speaker phone while in the kitchen last night so wife could "over hear"

Is there a reason you did this? I would be real careful giving too much transparency at this time, because it could blow up in your face badly.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/23/18 03:53 PM
She kept asking what I talked with OM about and what the detective said about the whole exposure.
In hind sight I made a mistake by playing the voicemail out of spite. I found OMs father both have same name. Still no luck with his mother.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/23/18 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She kept asking what I talked with OM about and what the detective said about the whole exposure.
In hind sight I made a mistake by playing the voicemail out of spite. I found OMs father both have same name. Still no luck with his mother.

Great job getting his name!

Yeah, even when the parent is a deadbeat, a cheater themselves, you'd be surprised how effective exposure still is. It's like the WS begins to compare themselves with ma/pa - that's quite the shock of cold water.

Originally Posted by CYk752
She kept asking what I talked with OM about .

Someone's been lying to their affair partner! Typically from a WW it's how their H doesn't care. Dr H says it's very effective to tell an OM simply that you love her and won't quit.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/23/18 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
[
In a voicemail he left me-I destroyed his career, his relationship with friends and his family now hates him. All over some woman who doesn't mean anything to him or love me. I should probably play that for her..

Yes!! Play that for her!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/23/18 09:50 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She kept asking what I talked with OM about and what the detective said about the whole exposure.
In hind sight I made a mistake by playing the voicemail out of spite. I found OMs father both have same name. Still no luck with his mother.

Oh, i am sorry, i missed what you meant. I think it was a great idea for her to overhear that comment!!
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/24/18 12:17 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
She kept asking what I talked with OM about and what the detective said about the whole exposure.
In hind sight I made a mistake by playing the voicemail out of spite. I found OMs father both have same name. Still no luck with his mother.

Oh, i am sorry, i missed what you meant. I think it was a great idea for her to overhear that comment!!

Good to hear I made the right call by playing the message. I'm trying not to do anything or say anything out of spite don't need to keep making love bank withdrawals.
As I'm sure you all know how easy it is to say and do mean stupid things, I'm struggling with how to talk to her and what to reply back to most of what she says. I'm still not sure how to take her when last night and this morning she was in a good mood and talkative with me.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/24/18 05:59 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
She kept asking what I talked with OM about and what the detective said about the whole exposure.
In hind sight I made a mistake by playing the voicemail out of spite. I found OMs father both have same name. Still no luck with his mother.

Oh, i am sorry, i missed what you meant. I think it was a great idea for her to overhear that comment!!

Good to hear I made the right call by playing the message. I'm trying not to do anything or say anything out of spite don't need to keep making love bank withdrawals.
As I'm sure you all know how easy it is to say and do mean stupid things, I'm struggling with how to talk to her and what to reply back to most of what she says. I'm still not sure how to take her when last night and this morning she was in a good mood and talkative with me.

Warily on the inside but sunshine on the outside.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/25/18 01:20 AM
So I finished another/last rounds of exposures on OMs side yesterday.
I believe I found his mother (lots of digging-census records and such) and contacted her this morning.
I guess it worked. I received another call this evening from the county police detective I spoke with the other day as OM contacted them again. I am to cease and desist all contact with OM.
WW came home after work got changed real quick and told me she was going out for the night and would be back in the morning before work. And could I take care of the dogs. Um what!? She's made our dogs a point of contention i.e. They're hers and not mine. I get to be around them when it's convenient for her.
I said no, she called me an [censored].
What do I even do now? Before she wasn't overly blatant but wow.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/25/18 06:09 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
. I received another call this evening from the county police detective I spoke with the other day as OM contacted them again. I am to cease and desist all contact with OM..

Hopefully forever!

What the what. You're contacting others, not him. Can you get him to stop 'contact' with you through your wife? Isn't HE the one who contacted YOU?

Never mind, you're done!




Originally Posted by CYk752
.
What do I even do now? Before she wasn't overly blatant but wow.

Yeah, the nice act was to prevent exposures. When they're mad you know exposures have hit the mark.

Just take a break now. You've got them running scared, go do something fun and relaxing while they yell about what he said about her and how she didn't keep you in line.

You won't get long to take a break!

What was his mother like?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/25/18 07:03 AM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by CYk752
. I received another call this evening from the county police detective I spoke with the other day as OM contacted them again. I am to cease and desist all contact with OM..

Hopefully forever!

What the what. You're contacting others, not him. Can you get him to stop 'contact' with you through your wife? Isn't HE the one who contacted YOU?

Never mind, you're done!




Originally Posted by CYk752
.
What do I even do now? Before she wasn't overly blatant but wow.

Yeah, the nice act was to prevent exposures. When they're mad you know exposures have hit the mark.

Just take a break now. You've got them running scared, go do something fun and relaxing while they yell about what he said about her and how she didn't keep you in line.

You won't get long to take a break!

What was his mother like?

Yeah I was a little put off by the I'm harassing OM by exposure, though the detective restated what I can do if OM comes around, but I've now hit everybody on his social media.
No reply from his Mother as of yet.
Half my wife's family is upset that I put her business out there for everybody. The rest are supportive. Her mother told me to leave it be and her father hasn't replied back to any calls or texts I've sent.
I guess I need to learn patience I want to start working on saving/rebuilding our marriage and I'm still upset about the divorce papers though nothing else has been done.
Should I start a full Plan A or go to Plan B? I barley see her or have any interactions with her as is.
Posted By: chalkncheese Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/25/18 10:41 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I want to start working on saving/rebuilding our marriage and I'm still upset about the divorce papers though nothing else has been done. Should I start a full Plan A or go to Plan B? I barley see her or have any interactions with her as is.

Hi CYK, While you're waiting for the dust to settle, it is a great time to become an expert on MB. I used the time immediately post exposure to read everything I could on this site, and tried to work on myself so that I would be in a position to know what to say and how to act if my WH made all the changes he needed to (he hasn't - but that doesn't mean it wasn't a useful process for me). It's helpful to get clear in your mind what your non-negotiables are now so that if your WW suddenly says the affair is over and she wants to work things out properly, then you know what you are going to say and do in order to make your marriage great and affair-proof it for the future. The Surviving an Affair checklist is the place to start so that you understand what your WW would need to commit to in order for you to be able to create a great marriage. I'm a details person, so I went through each item on the checklist and asked myself: what would doing this mean in terms of specific changes to my and WH's life? I found it a really useful exercise because I now have my list of what he would need to do in order to be able to come back. And it makes me feel confident that I won't be manipulated or persuaded into accepting anything other than a totally affair-proof marriage for the future.

You've done a really great job with exposure! It is so nice to see someone prepared to really fight an affair like that. Not many people do.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/25/18 03:30 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Half my wife's family is upset that I put her business out there for everybody. The rest are supportive. Her mother told me to leave it be and her father hasn't replied .

Is it possible that dad is wayward and mum has always covered up for him? Which half of the family is against exposure? Do the supportive folks know her parents couldn't give a monkeys about their daughters future?

Be very wary of these types. Worth keeping an eye on what their deal is.


Originally Posted by CYk752
I guess I need to learn patience I want to start working on saving/rebuilding our marriage and I'm still upset about the divorce papers though nothing else has been done..

Ha! Waywards very rarely process divorce papers. Their heads are too far up their arses to be prompt with paperwork. Ignore it for the time being. If it does proceed be very kind to her face but ruthless about getting a good deal through your lawyer. If she complains be all 'Well I don't want a divorce at all!', 'I talk marriage, not divorce' or 'With OM in the picture, I don't want you to fall prey to a golddigger'

Oh and move as much cash from her wayward grip as humanly possible, even if she's been financially responsible in the past. If she spends it, the lawyers can't redistribute it equally.

As for Plan A/Plan B, husbands are advised to Plan A for as long as possible, up to two years. At the two year point Dr H advises you give up and divorce for real. If it starts to take a toll on you, you would move into Plan B. Lots of people start off with a six month timeline before reassessing.

Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/25/18 04:23 PM
My wife's parents divorced when she was 12, for nearly the same reasons. Her mom has been dating affair partner ever since but her life has been in termoil and been in financial hardship. Her dad remarried but sadly she passed 2 years ago. Her mom has no family to speak of so it's mainly her dads side that's split on how I did things.
Advice her dad originally gave was bite my tounge and ride it out. Since exposure he's done, said I took things too far.
Just before I started posting here she had cleared the bank accounts, canceled cell phones and some utilities did it just as all our monthly bills were to be auto payed packed her bags while I was at work and left. It was nearly 2 weeks till I saw her again.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/25/18 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
My wife's parents divorced when she was 12, for nearly the same reasons. Her mom has been dating affair partner ever since but her life has been in termoil and been in financial hardship.

The waywards suffered financial hardship huh? NO KIDDING.

This is what your wife has to look forward to.

I wouldn't bother at all with mum.

Originally Posted by CYk752
.
Advice her dad originally gave was bite my tounge and ride it out. Since exposure he's done, said I took things too far..

He's an enabler. Sorry to say it but he's gutless.

Is he truly against you now or was he just squawking in fear? If the latter, just ignore it and maybe down the line, if you get there, say you need recovery supporters for your new marriage who are honest and brave. If he is no longer pro-you (or worse, pro affair) let one or two of the best supporters know "unfortunately I have lost Bobs support and he now approves of the affair. As someone who cares about WW can you continue to keep an eye on her in case she is taken advantage of? She's lost a lot of money since she met this guy."


Originally Posted by CYk752
.
Just before I started posting here she had cleared the bank accounts, canceled cell phones and some utilities did it just as all our monthly bills were to be auto payed packed her bags while I was at work and left. It was nearly 2 weeks till I saw her again.

That's too bad, but you're still sane and she's not. You have a plan, she has a crack pipe. So one way or another you're going to come out of this better off.

I was financially ravaged, but im wealthier than I've ever been thanks to the plans. I did not get dragged down too.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/25/18 11:58 PM
So been spending the last 2 hours together. She came home early and we agreed to have a couple drinks together.
I'm trying to steer the convo away from our separation which seems to be the only thing she wants to talk about, that and how she doesn't want to send mixed signals about spending time together.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/26/18 01:21 PM
So after spending several hours together we had to call it. She's still super hurt and pissed off about me sending messages out to everyone and to her work exposing. Because I've jeopardized everything she's worked so hard for. I did however tell her I would do it all again. That really set her off. So last night she went to bed angry and woke up angry.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/26/18 01:23 PM
Cyk, just take it day by day and avoid lovebusters. Have you read the book Surviving an Affair? If not, I would download it kindle and read it this weekend. It will help you understand the dynamics of what happened here and help you understand the advice we are giving you.

And don't worry about her parents. They haven no idea how to save marriages and don't understand the effectiveness of exposure.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/26/18 02:21 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Cyk, just take it day by day and avoid lovebusters. Have you read the book Surviving an Affair? If not, I would download it kindle and read it this weekend. It will help you understand the dynamics of what happened here and help you understand the advice we are giving you.

And don't worry about her parents. They haven no idea how to save marriages and don't understand the effectiveness of exposure.

Thanks. I'm rereading Surviving An Affair up to chapter 8 and need to let it all sink in.
Posted By: unwritten Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/26/18 10:45 PM
Just remember that it is not exposure that jeapordized her career, it is the fact that she is committing adultery with a coworker. Her own actions jeopardized her career. You are just telling the truth and asking for help. How does telling the truth and asking for help jeapordize a career? It does not, but acting immorally at work DOES.

Drives me NUTS when waywards blame exposure for the negative consequences of their own actions. Yet they don�t seem to be at all worried about how it will affect them when they are doing the act.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/26/18 11:46 PM
I realized from talking with her when the exposure happened that debating why I did it was like talking to a brick wall. I did my absolute best last night to remain calm and cool and exert nothing but kindness and love.
However she's still extremely mad and keeps reiterating that she could never see herself being with someone who would do that. Even as messed up as her morals are right now. It's a hard thing to overcome.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/27/18 12:01 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I realized from talking with her when the exposure happened that debating why I did it was like talking to a brick wall. I did my absolute best last night to remain calm and cool and exert nothing but kindness and love.
However she's still extremely mad and keeps reiterating that she could never see herself being with someone who would do that. Even as messed up as her morals are right now. It's a hard thing to overcome.

Think of it like this: you take the car keys away from a falling down drunk. She is FURIOUS that you took the keys away because she wanted drive to the bar.

Would you take her anger seriously? Or would you understand that he is very likely to feel differently when he sobers up?

You need to not get hung up on the temporary anger of a wayward who is still high on her affair and angry that you interfered with her affair.

You are very right that it makes no sense to debate with her about exposure. That is about as effective as debating with a falling down drunk. If she brings it just tell her "so sorry you are upset, but I felt everyone should know. "
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/27/18 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
.

You are very right that it makes no sense to debate with her about exposure. That is about as effective as debating with a falling down drunk. If she brings it just tell her "so sorry you are upset, but I felt everyone should know. "

I really liked a similar thing, a non-negotiable statement, wifedivorcing said during his stellar Plan A

Originally Posted by wifedivorcing
. She ask me if I believe it was right for telling everyone are business, I told her this. I had no reason hiding your affair and I didn't believe that is the right thing to do hide it. .

Wasn't that line one of your suggestions too, Melody?

Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/27/18 08:36 PM
So she asked if when I got home yesterday we could try a do over of the previous night but without getting upset. She told me she had an emotional roller coaster of a day and was torn about working it out or not. I made her something to eat and came back to her in the living room crying.
She asked what I was doing to better myself. Told me that she kept going back and forth about working it out and all the things that have happened lately and she's still not sure she can forgive me for jeopardizing her reputation and career. So really we just ended up having a rehash from the night before.
I did everything I could to show her love and kindness but kept from getting dragged into an argument.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/27/18 09:26 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She asked what I was doing to better myself. Told me that she kept going back and forth about working it out and all the things that have happened lately and she's still not sure she can forgive me for jeopardizing her reputation and career. So really we just ended up having a rehash from the night before.
I did everything I could to show her love and kindness but kept from getting dragged into an argument.


She is starting to break but you need to be prepared to offer up a road map out of this. Tell her that you don't want or need her forgiveness, but what you do want is a happy, passionate, romantic relationship with her that is affair proofed. Tell her that you have a plan that can bring happiness and passion back to the marriage, but she has to first commit to never seeing the OM again. I would print out the basic concepts here and ask her to read Surviving an Affair with you.

Instead of allowing the conversation to spiral back to negative things, start steering her to more optimistic discussions.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/27/18 09:28 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Told me that she kept going back and forth about working it out and all the things that have happened lately and she's still not sure she can forgive me for jeopardizing her reputation and career. .

"I am sorry your affair jeopardized your reputation, career and marriage. I know that must hurt. I am not seeking forgiveness; rather I am seeking a fantastic future. I hope it can be with you."
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/27/18 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She told me she had an emotional roller coaster of a day and was torn about working it out or not..

"Yes, I am torn too after what has happened. Under certain conditions I think it could work. But only if we both commit to a plan. Not having a plan is a plan to fail and I am not willing to go through this again."
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/27/18 10:06 PM
In other words, don't get hung up on "forgiveness." You don't need her forgiveness and she doesn't need yours. All you both need is a PLAN to a) affair proof your marriage and b) create a romantic, passionate marriage.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/27/18 10:10 PM
MelodyLane- something must be sticking in my head from reading the books and posts here, thankfully! I darn near said those exact words as my responses.
I want to show her and prove to her that it can work and something better can come from all this.
What I thought would always be a deal breaker for me, though I'm still hurt and struggle with that to some degree, I'm willing to move past and rebuild something better.
Again thank you to everyone for all your help. I still have a long way to go so bare with me...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/27/18 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
MelodyLane- something must be sticking in my head from reading the books and posts here, thankfully! I darn near said those exact words as my responses.
I want to show her and prove to her that it can work and something better can come from all this.
What I thought would always be a deal breaker for me, though I'm still hurt and struggle with that to some degree, I'm willing to move past and rebuild something better.
Again thank you to everyone for all your help. I still have a long way to go so bare with me...

You are doing great! And you are in a good position to save your marriage. Keep focusing on attracting her back.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/28/18 03:23 PM
Ended up having a pretty good night with my wife. She filled me in on a lot of what she's been doing. I let her talk for over 2 hours straight and engaged her in conversation, something I had been doing a terrible job of the last year or so. I'm slowly learning what her needs actually are and what I've been neglecting.
She did bring up that for us to make any effort I had to work on myself and something's would have to change which I fully realize.
Ultimately she is still very worried about trying to make it work. She says she has a huge trust issue with me (odd given the affair and what not) She's still has a wonderlust that she wants to explore as she's felt we were getting locked down and not living. And of course she has a big fear that if we try and fail it will be 10x worse.
I told her I did t want to reiterate what I've been saying but if we were open to it there are things I'd like us to try to fix and rebuild our marriage.
That did however set her off, she got angry that I had some unrealistic view and expectations of what marriage and a wife should be. I told her I have no idea what marriage should be I have no manual but I wanted to experience life with her. I didn't want her to conform to expectations of what a wife should be. She got angry again and I did hit her with "my only expectation in marriage was for us to be honest and faithful to each other" which didn't go over well.
We ended the night then both angry. I spoke with her this morning before leaving just to say sorry and have a good day.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/28/18 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She's still has a wonderlust that she wants to explore as she's felt we were getting locked down and not living. And of course she has a big fear that if we try and fail it will be 10x worse..

This is very, very concerning and I wonder if it is her philosophy of marriage that is the issue here? Does she believe in sexual exclusivity in marriage? Or does she believe that she is entitled to keep looking for better options? Because if it is the latter, then you are facing a lifetime of adultery. if she has a freeloaders approach to marriage, your marriage won't last and you are wasting your time. How would you describe your wife?

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accommodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

Renters believe Our relationship is temporary. You may be right for me today and wrong for me tomorrow.

Buyers believe We are together for life.

Renters believe Our relationship should be fair. What I get should balance what I give.

Buyers believe We both contribute whatever it takes to make our relationship successful.

Renters believe As needs change, the relationship may end if needs are difficult to meet.

Buyers believe As needs change, we will make adjustments to meet new needs.

Renters believe Criticism may prompt me to change if it's worthwhile for me to do so.

Buyer believe Criticism indicates a need for change.

Rentersbelieve Sacrifice is reasonable as long as it's fair.

Buyers believe Sacrifice is dangerous and to be avoided.

Renters believe Short-term fixes are fine.

Buyers believe long-term solutions are necessary.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/28/18 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She says she has a huge trust issue with me (odd given the affair and what not) .

We hear this ALOT from waywards so don't let it bother you. It is the FOG speaking. grin

Is she willing to affair proof your marriage and address her sloppy boundaries with men that led to this affair? Because if not, this will happen again. As much as it will tick her off, you need to start having this discussion about what led to this affair.

WHAT led to the affair? Was she looking for it? Was it poor boundaries? You need to address this and print this out and show it to her. Say, this is what it will take to create an affair proof, SAFE MARRIAGE.

From Surviving an Affair, pg 66-67

The extraordinary precautions do more than end marriage-threatening affairs; they help a couple form the kind of relationship they always wanted.

These recommendations may seem rigid, unnecessarily confining, and even paranoid to those who have not been the victim of infidelity. But people like Sue and Jon, who have suffered unimaginable pain as a result of an affair that spun out of control, can easily see their value. For the inconvenience of following my advice, Sue would have spared herself and Jon the very worst experience of their lives.


Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.


Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/28/18 04:19 PM
Great about Buyer/Renter/Freeloaders need to figure out were she stands.
I was debating when to present the checklist, I've had it the back of my mind whenever talking to her but I think your right I need to determine why the affair and subsequent fallout of our marriage actually happened before moving forward.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/28/18 04:35 PM
Has she ever had other affairs? Does she feel entitled to look for better options? What did she mean by "wanderlust?"
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/28/18 06:51 PM
She's never had an affair or cheated on any boyfriend (the few she's had) which is why I originally wanted to attribute this to some mid life crisis from when we started talking about kids.
I say wonderlust because I'm not sure how to sum up everything she's said. She's not sure we should be married because of what's happened and how we let ourselves get to this point.
She felt like she had been putting in most of the effort without much from me. I feel the same.
She likes the fact that she's talking care of herself, going to the gym, yoga, focusing more on herself. I've wanted her to that and more for sometime.
On the same note she asked me to tell her what I want her to be and how to be and she would be that. I told her I want her to be herself. I don't want her to adapt or change to be something, that wasn't the woman I fell in love with.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/28/18 08:04 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
On the same note she asked me to tell her what I want her to be and how to be and she would be that. I told her I want her to be herself. I don't want her to adapt or change to be something, that wasn't the woman I fell in love with.

I would rethink this philosophy, CYK, because you do need her to adapt and change to make your marriage a happy place. A freeloader never changes, a buyer changes to make the marriage happy. As a homeowner, I do what is necessary to keep up my home. I make necessary repairs and keep up my home. That is what a buyer in marriage does; they change to accommodate their marriage. The result is a passionate, happy marriage.

I would not explain this to her NOW, just focus on attracting her to this program. Paint a beautiful picture for her. Don't be pushy or desperate, but tell her you would be willing to try this.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/28/18 08:19 PM
]
Originally Posted by CYk752
she asked me to tell her what I want her to be and how to be and she would be that

"I have given this alot of thought and what I want you to be is HAPPY in a romantic passionate marriage to me where we both feel fulfilled with our needs met."


Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/29/18 12:20 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
On the same note she asked me to tell her what I want her to be and how to be and she would be that. I told her I want her to be herself. I don't want her to adapt or change to be something, that wasn't the woman I fell in love with.

I would rethink this philosophy, CYK, because you do need her to adapt and change to make your marriage a happy place. A freeloader never changes, a buyer changes to make the marriage happy. As a homeowner, I do what is necessary to keep up my home. I make necessary repairs and keep up my home. That is what a buyer in marriage does; they change to accommodate their marriage. The result is a passionate, happy marriage.

I would not explain this to her NOW, just focus on attracting her to this program. Paint a beautiful picture for her. Don't be pushy or desperate, but tell her you would be willing to try this.

You're right I do need her to adapt and change to have a happy and fulfilling marriage. But I don't want her to , as she said she was doing, adapting and being something she's not. I see that as asking to repeat all of our issues and more affairs.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/29/18 12:22 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
[

You're right I do need her to adapt and change to have a happy and fulfilling marriage. But I don't want her to , as she said she was doing, adapting and being something she's not. I see that as asking to repeat all of our issues and more affairs.

She was being a phony? In what way?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/29/18 01:47 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
[

You're right I do need her to adapt and change to have a happy and fulfilling marriage. But I don't want her to , as she said she was doing, adapting and being something she's not. I see that as asking to repeat all of our issues and more affairs.

She was being a phony? In what way?

That was the vibe I got which kinda took the wind from my sails. She had said she was being the wife I wanted and the wife society wanted her to be. She said she's always been good at adapting and changing to what see supposed to be.
So red flags went up for me.
This whole things been like peeling layers off an onion.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/29/18 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
[

You're right I do need her to adapt and change to have a happy and fulfilling marriage. But I don't want her to , as she said she was doing, adapting and being something she's not. I see that as asking to repeat all of our issues and more affairs.

She was being a phony? In what way?

That was the vibe I got which kinda took the wind from my sails. She had said she was being the wife I wanted and the wife society wanted her to be. She said she's always been good at adapting and changing to what see supposed to be.
So red flags went up for me.
This whole things been like peeling layers off an onion.

Is this before or after the affair began though?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/29/18 11:55 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
[

You're right I do need her to adapt and change to have a happy and fulfilling marriage. But I don't want her to , as she said she was doing, adapting and being something she's not. I see that as asking to repeat all of our issues and more affairs.

She was being a phony? In what way?

That was the vibe I got which kinda took the wind from my sails. She had said she was being the wife I wanted and the wife society wanted her to be. She said she's always been good at adapting and changing to what see supposed to be.
So red flags went up for me.
This whole things been like peeling layers off an onion.

That's a victim mentality we see with most waywards that is used to justify their bad behavior.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/29/18 04:24 PM
@Indiegirl -she told me this the other night about how she had been all through our marriage.

@MelodyLane-I want to believe it was all just justification babble she was telling me and your probably right. Like I said, she had pleaded with me with tears in her eyes, to tell her what I wanted her to be and she would be that.

That's why red flags went up form me. Granted I thought we were both in this together no matter what when we got married. I do feel like we got to a breaking point with so much built up issues that she bailed out early just as it was starting to get bad instead of working through it. Which is why I'm leaning towards her being a Renter and me a Buyer.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/30/18 01:53 AM
Little victory if you will, wife called to ask my schedule for the next coming days to set up a dinner date.
Hopefully optimistic at this point.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/30/18 02:10 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
@Indiegirl -she told me this the other night about how she had been all through our marriage.

@MelodyLane-I want to believe it was all just justification babble she was telling me and your probably right. Like I said, she had pleaded with me with tears in her eyes, to tell her what I wanted her to be and she would be that.

How cute and dramatic! sigh


Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/30/18 09:06 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
@Indiegirl -she told me this the other night about how she had been all through our marriage.

@MelodyLane-I want to believe it was all just justification babble she was telling me and your probably right. Like I said, she had pleaded with me with tears in her eyes, to tell her what I wanted her to be and she would be that.

That's why red flags went up form me. Granted I thought we were both in this together no matter what when we got married. I do feel like we got to a breaking point with so much built up issues that she bailed out early just as it was starting to get bad instead of working through it. Which is why I'm leaning towards her being a Renter and me a Buyer.

If she wasn't talking like this before the affair it's just fogbabble resulting from the affair. Look out for "you're so controlling!" and "I need space" and "I love you but not in love with you" as well. Good people can and do get into affairs, which messes with their self image so they go into self justification mode which results in a lot of nonsense and rewriting of history, as well as a lot of hand wringing and anguish.

Everyone in an active affair is a freeloader. Who she is after the fog remains to be seen but the checklist creates buyers habits.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/30/18 07:46 PM
Yeah I kinda took what she was saying as her way of justifying the affair. But her sob story kinda gave me red flags.
What's best timeline to implement the checklist?I feel it might be too soon?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 05/30/18 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Yeah I kinda took what she was saying as her way of justifying the affair. But her sob story kinda gave me red flags.
What's best timeline to implement the checklist?I feel it might be too soon?

Did she wear her Joan of Arc martyr outfit when she did that?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 01:53 AM
We had made plans to go out tonight. She got home and canceled saying it probably wasn't a good idea. I didn't put up any argument just said ok I was still going out if she changed her mind.
Guess it's back to the drawing board.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 11:09 AM
Cyk are you listening to the radio show daily? Maybe you want to be inviting her on dates and she's feeling exhausted with planning them.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 03:58 PM
I have not been listening to the radio show I should start.
She's on quite the emotional roller coaster. Super happy the other day but moody and sad yesterday and this morning.
I've been trying not to pester her with spending time together and that's all I want to do. What would be or is, not sure what to call it, our anniversary is coming up and I'm kind of dreading the day.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 04:06 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I have not been listening to the radio show I should start.
She's on quite the emotional roller coaster. Super happy the other day but moody and sad yesterday and this morning.
I've been trying not to pester her with spending time together and that's all I want to do. What would be or is, not sure what to call it, our anniversary is coming up and I'm kind of dreading the day.

What is the latest with her job? Is she still in touch with the OM?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 04:37 PM
She was suspended for a couple of days than back to work. From what she told me he was suspended for over a week. Didn't seem like much came from it other than "her reputation being hurt" as she put it.
I haven't been able to check her computer or email but no contact has been made with OM that I can see on her iPhone. She may have deleted texts and calls. I haven't had a chance to really dig through it though.
I'm trying to stay as vigilant as I can with OM popping back up. But nothing yet.
I'm not sure where she's at with things. We talked last week about working on it what that would mean. We even kissed that night in the heat of the moment. Had a good couple days but it seems we're taking a couple leaps backwards.

*i should ask, what approach should I talk if she has been in contact with OM?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 04:40 PM
So she still works with the OM?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 04:45 PM
Same company different locations. 1hr30min apart. But too close for me.
I haven't fully breached the subject that if we were to make it work she would have to quit.
I'm still trying to get her to commit to working on the marriage.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Same company different locations. 1hr30min apart. But too close for me.
I haven't fully breached the subject that if we were to make it work she would have to quit.
I'm still trying to get her to commit to working on the marriage.

You need to drop this bomb NOW, rather than later because y ou are wasting your time if she doesn't leave that job. The longer you let this go unsaid the harder it will be to sell. Trust me on this. It will cause much more damage to drag this out with her thinking you would accept these conditions. GEt this all out on the table NOW.

She will be FURIOUS at first and tell you to go to hell. But once she sees you are serious, she will start thinking about solutions for your marriage. It is also critical how you present this, but you need to get it all out there NOW.

Tell her, I want to have a happy, romantic safe marriage for both of us. But that can only happen under certain conditions. Your affair has hurt me badly and I cannot stay in a situation where I am unsafe. In order for our marriage to succeed, I am asking that you leave that job. I can't endure you working at the same place as OM.

Show her the checklist of what it will take to affair proof your marriage. But you need to plant these seeds NOW and get her thinking about it.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 06:10 PM
Your right I should lay everything out now no point in waiting. I haven't brought it up as she still seems to be leaning more towards divorce then reconciliation and I'm worried, even though she's asked me to leave my career, that she would definitely pick her career over me.
I have the checklist. As well as a scheduling UA time I've been trying to put to use but I'm still getting push back from being together.
So what should my plan be moving forward? Layout what I want. Give her the checklist and start scheduling time together?
Can I even give her the checklist and say what I want if she's still on the fence?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Your right I should lay everything out now no point in waiting. I haven't brought it up as she still seems to be leaning more towards divorce then reconciliation and I'm worried, even though she's asked me to leave my career, that she would definitely pick her career over me.
I have the checklist. As well as a scheduling UA time I've been trying to put to use but I'm still getting push back from being together.
So what should my plan be moving forward? Layout what I want. Give her the checklist and start scheduling time together?
Can I even give her the checklist and say what I want if she's still on the fence?

Yes!! Because she has to know about the plan from the start. She shouldn't be led to believe that the future of your marriage is unconditional, it is not. Unless you are willing to have no plan and a future of more affairs. That will be a disaster.

You need to let her know that YOU are on the fence too and these items are what will bring a happy marriage.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 06:25 PM
If she is going to divorce you because you want a happy, affair free marriage, then you are better off divorced.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 06:53 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
We had made plans to go out tonight. She got home and canceled saying it probably wasn't a good idea. I didn't put up any argument just said ok I was still going out if she changed her mind.
Guess it's back to the drawing board.

It is beyond normal for her to waver back and forth. Treat her retreats as a break for yourself.

.
Originally Posted by CYk752
Your right I should lay everything out now no point in waiting. I haven't brought it up as she still seems to be leaning more towards divorce then reconciliation and I'm worried, even though she's asked me to leave my career, that she would definitely pick her career over me.
I have the checklist. As well as a scheduling UA time I've been trying to put to use but I'm still getting push back from being together.
So what should my plan be moving forward? Layout what I want. Give her the checklist and start scheduling time together?
Can I even give her the checklist and say what I want if she's still on the fence?

Nobody really wants a husband who is blas� about another guy! You have no reason to fear being strict on that point. Of course she wont like it, because RIGHT NOW, she's not ready to commit and she will welcome any doormat behaviour on your part; it makes it easier for her to discount you. But just go ahead and confidently plant the seed now. When the affair crumbles, and she has no need to insist on the wiggle room for another person, your conditions re working with the other man will not be a barrier for her.

You should be pitching yourself as somebody who has options and who has no reason to settle for crumbs. Be confident and as though you are in no hurry for her to comply - but make it clear this free trial isn't going to last forever. If she wants the new you, the new work life balance, she (eventually) needs to pony up some effort too.

Waywards are always looking for data to 'make a decision' (even though they never do) so even though she wont be encouraging, she will consider it.


She wont make a decision, the decision will be made for her (affairs always bottom out) and at that point she will only be left with the options you have outlined.


Oh and of course the looming anniversary is going to suck for you. Offer to Plan A her for the day and if she turns you down go do something nice for yourself. You can leave her a gift and then go take care of you.




Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 07:10 PM
MelodyLane, thanks for the support. Harsh truths and realities I don't want to face. I do appreciate your advice. Thank you.

Indiegirl, I've been trying but probably failing at making myself appealing to her. given recent events I feel like I've fallen back into a begging and pleading stage. Which is why last night when she canceled plans and told me I wasn't a good idea for us to go out. I didn't challenge it. Just kept a smile and went about my business.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/01/18 07:33 PM
Cyk, I want to encourage you to stick with this. I have seen much worse than this make complete recoveries, but only on the right conditions. If she is not willing to follow this plan, she will never be marriage material. But she needs your leadership. You need to show her the plan and be persistent.

Show her this plan, the checklist and ask her to leave her job. She will balk at first, so you must be a broken record and keep bringing it up.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 12:40 PM
We spent some time together last night. I made a pass at her she pulled away and she asked if we could talk.
She said she can't see making it work. Even though I'm trying to get passed the affair (she still won't call it that) "me involving" her work is now a line in the sand and not something she's willing to get passed. On top of the fact I had said before I have no regrets about exposing and would do it again. She said she has no regrets or remorse for what she's done. And wants to move forward with the divorce.
I don't know what to do now.

*And on top of all that saw on her FB messages that she's still in contact with OM as of last weekend
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 01:45 PM
Go talk to her and tell her that her affair hurts you deeply. Lay out the plan I outlined above. I REALIZE it seems insane to address this when she is talking about divorce, but you can let her know, that YES, if you can't agree to these conditions and agree to quit your job, this will lead to divorce.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 01:48 PM
As her affair crumbles, as it is now, she will start drawing to you. As this happens, she will remember the conditions you lay out. Keep in mind, you are not dealing with a rational person. This is a person who is drunk on an affair. You just need to be patient while her affair dies out.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 01:49 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Even though I'm trying to get passed the affair (she still won't call it that) "me involving" her work is now a line in the sand and not something she's willing to get passed.

Anger over exposure is caused by the FOG. The FOG is caused by continued contact with the OM.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 02:38 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Go talk to her and tell her that her affair hurts you deeply. Lay out the plan I outlined above. I REALIZE it seems insane to address this when she is talking about divorce, but you can let her know, that YES, if you can't agree to these conditions and agree to quit your job, this will lead to divorce.

I'll talk with her when I get home tonight. It does seem insane to bring it up now but I will do it.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
As her affair crumbles, as it is now, she will start drawing to you. As this happens, she will remember the conditions you lay out. Keep in mind, you are not dealing with a rational person. This is a person who is drunk on an affair. You just need to be patient while her affair dies out.

God I hope your right. As I run everything through my mind I keep hearing her reasoning on why it wasn't an affair and that it doesn't mean anything, I I find myself falling for it and justifying it. It's a bad trap.
I thought and hoped stupidly that the affair was done but I was wrong.

I'm struggling with getting an overall plan together. I really have no idea what to do on a day-to-day basis with her, and things like this are like getting kicked back to the ground.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 02:51 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
[

God I hope your right. As I run everything through my mind I keep hearing her reasoning on why it wasn't an affair and that it doesn't mean anything, I I find myself falling for it and justifying it. It's a bad trap.

Yes it is a bad trap. You are allowing your sense of reality to be shaped by a falling down drunk who has a vested interest in justifying her affair. You need to call it what it is: an affair but don't get hung up on definitions. Tell her she can call it a baloney sandwich if she wishes, but it was extremely painful for you and in order for your marriage to ever recover, she has to leave that job.

Quote
I'm struggling with getting an overall plan together. I really have no idea what to do on a day-to-day basis with her, and things like this are like getting kicked back to the ground.

We gave you the plan. Did you read my posts about what to show her?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 02:58 PM
CYK: i want to talk to you about what it will take to save this marriage. I love you and know this marriage can be saved, but only on certain conditions.

WW: are you crazy? I am getting a divorce!!

CYK: I agree this will lead to divorce unless we have a plan. I do not want to stay in an unhappy marriage either, but it doesnt' have to be like that. Let me outline a plan that would change that. It is a 2 part plan that will lead to a happy, passionate relationship. The first part is to affair proof our marriage, which means you would have to commit to never seeing or speaking to your affair partner again. That means leaving your job and making our lives completely transparent to each other, making it impossible to have another affair. The next step is to fall in love again by following certain steps.

WW: You must be nuts! i will never agree to leave my job and want a divorce

CYK: I agree we are headed for divorce as it is now but these are the conditions that would motivate me to try to save this marriage. Your affair has hurt me terribly and I have to have assurance it won't happen again in order to try. For the time being I am asking you end your relationship with the OM. Stop hurting me!
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 04:55 PM
It's funny I can see me saying all that and her response would be just that.

Bad phrasing on my part with not having a "plan" I should say I don't know what to do or say when I'm around her.
I still feel like I'm walking on eggshells with her. But I will go over everything you posted, with her.
I half a$$ed telling her the outline of what it would take for us to work it out but stopped when she kept hitting me with "We are getting a divorce! I can't be with someone who would jeopardize someones livelihood! That's hard line in the sand for me!"
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
It's funny I can see me saying all that and her response would be just that.

Bad phrasing on my part with not having a "plan" I should say I don't know what to do or say when I'm around her.
I still feel like I'm walking on eggshells with her. But I will go over everything you posted, with her.

Good man! Please remind yourself that you have NOTHING TO LOSE and everything to gain. Don't be deluded into thinking that just being together is a solution. IT IS NOT. Living in the same house with no plan is just a train to divorce. So don't be afraid of upsetting the status quo when the status quo is DIVORCE!

Be brave and confident and jump right into it, my friend! Go fight for your marriage. It is the only hope you have.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 05:34 PM
And don't get into the trap of trying to talk her out of divorce. You need to AGREE WITH HER about that. Say, yes, this will lead to divorce without a plan. I agree divorce would be better than enduring this hell again. But that is not the only option.

If you AGREE WITH HER, you neutralize that weapon.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 05:58 PM
I gotta drive that point home to myself that at this point I have nothing to lose. I like the advice about neutralizing the weapon.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/03/18 06:45 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I gotta drive that point home to myself that at this point I have nothing to lose. I like the advice about neutralizing the weapon.

Cyk, I know this is scary, but you will lose if you allow fear to guide your path. Don't allow her anger and threats to guide your actions. You need to follow YOUR plan because your plan is the only one that will save your marriage.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/04/18 12:03 PM
It's a dreadful mistake to listen to her. Very depressing!

Don't look for any signs of hope in her words and if you see any, distrust them.

Just listen with half an ear. Listen for opportunities to state your case and to make soothing noises and discard the rest.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/04/18 04:43 PM
I tried to talk with her yesterday got the cold shoulder and her telling me to leave her alone. She was pleasant enough when I walked in the door but when I tried to engage her in conversation asking how her day was she got really mad and blew me off.
Spent the rest of the night in the house separate and quiet.
As she put it we are legally separated at this point and just roommates.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/04/18 04:58 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I tried to talk with her yesterday got the cold shoulder and her telling me to leave her alone. She was pleasant enough when I walked in the door but when I tried to engage her in conversation asking how her day was she got really mad and blew me off.
Spent the rest of the night in the house separate and quiet.
As she put it we are legally separated at this point and just roommates.

You are not "separated." Be sure and point out to her that you are very married and that even if you really did "separate" [which means to SEPARATE] you are still married. It is important that you make this point, because she will use this to justify cheating.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/04/18 04:59 PM
What does she mean by "legally separated?" Do you have a court order?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/04/18 05:59 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
What does she mean by "legally separated?" Do you have a court order?

No court order, she said that in reference to divorce papers being filed.

I feel like we reset to zero and we are back to where we were a couple months ago, she's got venom in her voice and won't even look at me.
A friend called me this morning just to see how I've been doing got to talking about it all and it kinda reopened some of the wounds I thought were good. He pressed me as to why I want to save my marriage after what she did and her words from the other night got stuck on repeat "I don't feel bad for what I did and I would do it again."
My only reply I had was because I love her. Now yes there are a million plus things that run through my mind when I think about it but the words and verbal expression of those exscape me.
This has definitely been a lesson in patience for me as I have none, always been a procrastinator and looking for a quick fix, I've been trying to work on that. But after this week and the build up to last night and the silence that ensued I woke up in an empty bed again and a quiet house.
Sorry for the sob story and self deprecation I'm putting out, it's kinda back in full force today I'm I'm trying to keep it all internal with a smile in my face.
Any suggestions on how to proceed from here with her?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/04/18 07:50 PM
Nope, just stick with your PLAN. As long as she works with the OM she will be distant and fogged out so just expect it. And once again, I will reiterate that if she has a philosophy of marriage that entitles her to have affairs, you may be looking at your future. I would think very hard on that.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/04/18 10:44 PM
I got my hopes up that it would be over quick once exposing it probably would have been different had i come here sooner and I done it much earlier.
Which is why I'm half tempted to listen to her excuse as to why the affair happened. That she just doesn't want to be married anymore. I just feel a little defeated today. I still will try anything to save my marriage.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/04/18 11:17 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Which is why I'm half tempted to listen to her excuse as to why the affair happened. That she just doesn't want to be married anymore. I just feel a little defeated today. I still will try anything to save my marriage.

First off, your wife is angry that you interfered with her affair. You have really caused alot of trouble for her and the OM. That is a good thing and I suspect the affair is slowly dying as we speak. Your wife had an affair because she has poor boundaries around men. If she "just doesn't want to be married anymore" she would have not had an affair, she would have got divorced.

Don't listen to her fogbabble. She has already come up with many excuses for her affair this is another one. Don't pay attention.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/05/18 12:00 AM
Any suggestions on how to lay my plan out for her if we're back to not talking?
Or even any suggestions on how to get back to talking.
Trying my best to be nice and not say mean or sarcastic things to her.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/05/18 12:20 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Any suggestions on how to lay my plan out for her if we're back to not talking?
Or even any suggestions on how to get back to talking.
Trying my best to be nice and not say mean or sarcastic things to her.

Why don't you tell her you would like to speak to her? Lay out the plan like I suggested and be sure and let her know you FULLY AGREE that you are headed to divorce if things don't change. You need to neutralize that threat..
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/05/18 12:21 AM
Start with something like: "we need to have a talk so you can understand my position......."
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/05/18 12:42 AM
You are acting as though the worst case scenario is divorce. The worst case scenario is another affair. You are also listening to a cheater. A proven liar. With wide open ears and believing everything she says! DO NOT LISTEN TO WAYWARDS. I don't care how much you want her to give you words of hope.

She wont. She wont give an inch until the affair is total dust.

As long as there's even a bit of heroin dust left, she's not really your wife.

Originally Posted by CYk752
I feel like we reset to zero and we are back to where we were a couple months ago, she's got venom in her voice and won't even look at me.


twoxfour

DO NOT LISTEN TO WAYWARDS. It is getting pathetically easy for her to psych you out. If she wants to sulk, go get ice cream.

Originally Posted by CYk752
My only reply I had was because I love her.

I wouldn't be happy with this response from a friend either. Loving her is fine, but both she and all your friends (but especially you) should know you will be ABSOLUTELY getting a divorce unless she can affair proof this marriage. This is the kind of confidence you should be projecting.

Stop listening to her for hope. You will find no hope in a waywards words. The hope is with YOU. You are the hope. Bring the plan, and it's assurance of no more affairs, and your resulting confidence to the fore.

Plan?
1) Stop trying to have serious conversations with someone drunk off their nut on an affair.
2) Reiterate your conditions that YES you will get divorced unless future affairs become impossible.
3) Ignore all the stuff about how she is going to move into the garage so she can bone someone else as a 'legally separated' according to made-up-law woman. Stop expecting to get cosy with someone who's trying to rip out your spleen for drug money.
4) Tell her you love her. BUT that you love yourself too. Hold out for the day she will commit to recovery.
5) Self care. Plan A is a rough old marathon. ADs if necessary.

Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/05/18 01:50 AM
Great points MelodyLane & indiegirl, all things I really need to remember. I'm looking for hope and positive signs from a junkie and liar - things I'll never get until she's done.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/06/18 04:11 AM
Laid it all out for her tonight. She wanted to talk which was a surprise, started telling me about her day, I listened for a bit but had to stop her. Told her I can't keep being in this hell I love her and want to save the marriage but I can't and won't do it with how things are. Laid out the plan of never talking to OM again and working on us affair proofing our marriage and her leaving her job. But as thing are now we are getting a divorce. Sure enough she was angry. She stormed off kept coming back to trying to talk to me but couldn't say anything let alone what she wanted, would start but than just say "I can't tell you what I'm feeling you won't understand"
Finally after her asking to talk and her not saying a word, I told her I can't do this anymore if she wants to talk than talk to me otherwise I can't keep letting her hurt me. She finally said she can't work on it because she can't see her self being intimate with me or being trusting of me anymore. I told her "yeah neither can I with how things are" she brought up exposure again, and how that was far worse than her affair but it wasn't my business to tell everyone. I fired back that yes it is my business that my wife is having an affair and wants a divorce.
We ended with her just reiterating that she can't see her self being intimate with me or tell me what's going on with her, she can't be vulnerable around me.
She was quite angry that I kept hitting her with "if things don't change, than yes we are getting a divorce."
So plan has been laid out went over better than I thought, she never challenged any of it or got said anything about leaving the job.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/06/18 10:42 AM
You did great!! Now, you just have to work on attracting her back and avoiding lovebusters. When you have an opportunity, bring the PLAN up again by saying "I want us to have a loving, happy, SAFE marriage and i am asking you to leave that job and follow this plan." Let her talk to you as much as possible, because talking will bring you closer.

What was it that attracted her to the OM? What were the problems in your marriage?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/06/18 01:10 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You did great!! Now, you just have to work on attracting her back and avoiding lovebusters. When you have an opportunity, bring the PLAN up again by saying "I want us to have a loving, happy, SAFE marriage and i am asking you to leave that job and follow this plan." Let her talk to you as much as possible, because talking will bring you closer.

What was it that attracted her to the OM? What were the problems in your marriage?

It's what is or would be our anniversary today. She came in the master bedroom to wake me up just said good morning and sat on the edge of the bed while we played with our dogs. I did say Happy anniversary but didnt expect anything from her.

Why this all happened and why she had the affair are the questions I need to find out. As she put it last night I can't handle the details of what's happened, on the contrary for me the nitty gritty details don't matter only why it happened and how we got to this point.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/06/18 02:08 PM
Can you ask her how her affair started? What was the attraction?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/06/18 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Laid it all out for her tonight. She wanted to talk which was a surprise, started telling me about her day, I listened for a bit but had to stop her. Told her I can't keep being in this hell I love her and want to save the marriage but I can't and won't do it with how things are. Laid out the plan of never talking to OM again and working on us affair proofing our marriage and her leaving her job. But as thing are now we are getting a divorce. Sure enough she was angry. She stormed off kept coming back to trying to talk to me but couldn't say anything let alone what she wanted, would start but than just say "I can't tell you what I'm feeling you won't understand"
Finally after her asking to talk and her not saying a word, I told her I can't do this anymore if she wants to talk than talk to me otherwise I can't keep letting her hurt me. She finally said she can't work on it because she can't see her self being intimate with me or being trusting of me anymore. I told her "yeah neither can I with how things are" she brought up exposure again, and how that was far worse than her affair but it wasn't my business to tell everyone. I fired back that yes it is my business that my wife is having an affair and wants a divorce.
We ended with her just reiterating that she can't see her self being intimate with me or tell me what's going on with her, she can't be vulnerable around me.
She was quite angry that I kept hitting her with "if things don't change, than yes we are getting a divorce."
So plan has been laid out went over better than I thought, she never challenged any of it or got said anything about leaving the job.

Very promising!

She is very confused. From here, let her ramble on if she needs to and make soothing 'there is a plan' noises wherever possible.

Originally Posted by CYk752
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You did great!! Now, you just have to work on attracting her back and avoiding lovebusters. When you have an opportunity, bring the PLAN up again by saying "I want us to have a loving, happy, SAFE marriage and i am asking you to leave that job and follow this plan." Let her talk to you as much as possible, because talking will bring you closer.

What was it that attracted her to the OM? What were the problems in your marriage?

It's what is or would be our anniversary today. She came in the master bedroom to wake me up just said good morning and sat on the edge of the bed while we played with our dogs. I did say Happy anniversary but didnt expect anything from her.

Why this all happened and why she had the affair are the questions I need to find out. As she put it last night I can't handle the details of what's happened, on the contrary for me the nitty gritty details don't matter only why it happened and how we got to this point.

Ah, the not-anniversary is such a stinker, isn't it my friend?

I would use this phrasing of 'I don't care about the nitty gritty, just the outline facts' that will be appealing to her. In fact you could give her a list of suitable questions and promise her that it will be the one and only time you discuss the affair, once she has met your conditions.

Melody Lanes suggested phrase should be liberally sprinkled too!

How bout tomorrow you send her a big bouquet of flowers with 'I didn't want you to feel obligated yesterday to give me something in return but I hope these make you smile'
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/06/18 04:25 PM
I've been able to see from the last couple of days together that she's confused even saying so at a couple of points. It was odd how quickly she turned once I told her that yes as things are we're getting a divorce, I won't allow myself to be hurt anymore.
the not-anniversary sucks big time lol.
Oddly enough I wanted to know the nitty gritty when all this happened, now, well I could care less. I'm only interested in knowing why it happened, why she did it and where we went wrong.
So from here on I just try to win her back? Make some love deposits untill she and I agree to fix it?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/06/18 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
So from here on I just try to win her back? Make some love deposits untill she and I agree to fix it?

You got it! It will be helpful for you to understand what went wrong here so you can make course corrections. Did you commit lovebusters? [most restaurant owners are very stressed out, were you?] You had said you were working long hours which surely had an effect. Did she feel neglected? I would discuss the state of the marriage if you can and talk about solutions. You don't want to get lost in the past, but it can give you clues on how to improve.

And I hope you are serving Pepsi in your restaurant! grin
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/07/18 04:40 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
So from here on I just try to win her back? Make some love deposits untill she and I agree to fix it?

You got it! It will be helpful for you to understand what went wrong here so you can make course corrections. Did you commit lovebusters? [most restaurant owners are very stressed out, were you?] You had said you were working long hours which surely had an effect. Did she feel neglected? I would discuss the state of the marriage if you can and talk about solutions. You don't want to get lost in the past, but it can give you clues on how to improve.

And I hope you are serving Pepsi in your restaurant! grin

I've been trying to evaluate what went wrong replaying every conversation and argument we've had. Everything she's said lately. I know a big factor was my time I've spent with her, too much at work and not enough with her. I had also started to become distant when she was asking me to leave my career and find something new. I wasn't ready to give up my passion for restaurants as my goal has always been to own my own and I was getting pretty close.

I came home yesterday to her watching our wedding video she asked me to watch with her. We talked most of the night but I think I messed up pretty bad. She had asked me if I really did want a divorce I said of course not but given how things are that's where we are headed.
She said there was no guarantee that this wouldn't happen again and we wouldn't fix things over night. But she didn't feel like I'm in a place ready handle why the affair happened.
I reiterated the plan as being how we start to affair proof our marriage and rebuild, but I didn't want to have a conversation with her about working it out if she wasn't on board let alone if she was still seeing OM.
She confessed that they spoke only moments before I got home and still spoke daily but hadn't seen each other in a week.
I did get angry but held back as best I could but I shut down and closed myself off, I ended the conversation much to her anger, telling her I wouldn't allow myself to go through this with her on the fence about about me and OM, and her not wanting to commit to the plan.
Overall I could have handled the situation better. She wanted to explain why it happened and why she fell for OM but I shut her down. I told her I saw no point in having any talks about us or moving forward if she was still in an on going affair.
Posted By: overtherainbow1 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/07/18 05:12 PM
**EDIT**

Moderators note: please familiarize yourself with MB concepts before posting to others. The forum is intended for discussion of Marriage Builders, not personal philosophies.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/07/18 10:07 PM
She's watching the wedding video and trying to sound you out about how serious you are about a plan. It sounds like she's also testing your temper. This is all promising stuff.

You're well within your rights to shut down a conversation when she's blatantly talking about her affair, you didnt err by letting her know its intolerable. Plan A is not plan doormat.

Make sure you are never visibly angry or fuming though. Go with 'Im hurt' over angry every time. She'll never give you the radical honesty you need for recovery if she thinks you lean more towards angry, as opposed to 'firm but fair'

You're having to woo and sales pitch her, while hearing about OM and watching her vacillate back and back forth. That is not for the faint hearted, but if you need anti depressants to keep your poker face on, take them.

If you start lovebusting her you're not in Plan A and would be better off in Plan B.

Originally Posted by CYk752
. I told her I saw no point in having any talks about us .

The whole point of Plan A is to talk. To sell her on a version of the future. Pitch your heart out. Reminisce. Talk about vacations she has always wanted to go on, weekend stuff she would like to do, promise to spend lots of time with her, apologise for not realising sooner and promise that the marriage will not only survive but thrive. Tell her that the recovery of your marriage will be the wonder of all your friends.This little confusion will be entirely forgotten!

Then when you've got her eyes on the carrot, bring down the stick 'all you have to do is leave the job, and affair proof our marriage'


Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/07/18 11:19 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
[She wanted to explain why it happened and why she fell for OM but I shut her down. I told her I saw no point in having any talks about us or moving forward if she was still in an on going affair..


This is actually going very well, much better than you think. I would pick this back up and ask her to explain to you what happened that caused her to check out. You can then reiterate your plan to a) affair proof and b) fall in love again.But that can only work IF SHE WILL END ALL CONTACT WITH THE OM. Ask her to quit her job now and end her affair immediately by sending this no contact to the OM.

I would also call up the OM and tell him you will fight for your wife and will not give up.

Quote
She said there was no guarantee that this wouldn't happen again and we wouldn't fix things over night.

Let her know you aren't willing to go through this ever again. Tell her that it has been the most painful event of your life and you are willing to move forward with her as long as she cleans up her boundaries with men. What led to this affair was that allowed another man to meet her needs. This will happen again and again unless she changes her behavior. Is she willing to change her behavior that led to her affair?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/08/18 04:14 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I would also call up the OM and tell him you will fight for your wife and will not give up.

Yes this is the perfect time to reiterate your commitment that you will be a flea in his ear and are not going anywhere! At this stage the OM's commitment is usually flagging because there are other women in the world with less drama. I bet he was told not to continue this affair with a subordinate too - and she is the one who ratted him out to you!

Another thing WW commonly do is they tell the OM their husbands don't care about them. Following exposure the OM is usually angry about this lie "What the what? I thought he wouldn't care?" but the WW excuses herself by claiming it was momentary vengeance. It is very effective to follow up and calmly confront the OM and tell him that he is interfering in a loving marriage, so much so that you will be forced to take any legal means necessary to protect your marriage and that you will fight for WW.

Not only is he unlikely to be up for the competition but it causes trouble between them by exposing lies.

Does anyone know where Dr Hs advice on confrontation is? I can't find it.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/08/18 06:11 PM
At her request we went out last night, she had to run some errands and asked if I would join her. She asked me again to put my ego away and tell her if I really wanted a divorce, again I told her the plan and that if nothing was changing than yes I wanted a divorce, I've no desire to ever go through this again. I'm starting to sound like a broken record with her lol. She said it was a yes or no, not a "well if things change" she had to know my immediate feeling. I asked her if she wanted a divorce or to work on it, she said its different she's not sure what she wants.
And given that stance it's divorce for me until things change. She didn't like that answer.

I've thought about contacting OM but not quite sure how to go about it.

What I thought was a unique situation, has turned into a very scripted drama, nearly all of her replies and conversations have been played out here before. And I'm really just starting to see that. I have a long weekend off from work and plenty of time to work on making some love bank deposits. Me not spending time with her and OM wanting to spend time with her was a big factor as she said. Should I pull out all the stops and woo the heck out of her? Ive been reading HNHN and I'm trying to determine what would make the biggest deposits for her.
Posted By: unwritten Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/08/18 06:22 PM
Yes you should woo her, that is Plan A. But you are right not to fall for her trying to get you to stray from your scripted plan. She obviously doesn�t like it because it puts the ball in her court. You are telling her you love her and want to do what it takes to have a happy marriage, but will not subject yourself to affairs. Basically, she can�t have her cake and eat too. She doesn�t want to hear that but needs to. Plan A does not equal Plan Doormat after all.

Can you plan a quick weekend getaway to take her on? Could be simple, hotel room in the city (or country depending where you are), dinner out, etc. No strings attached, just a mini mental vacay.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/08/18 06:32 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
. Should I pull out all the stops and woo the heck out of her? .

Yes. Carrot and stick. Talk about the price of your product (affair proofing) but also give her one heck of a free trial. I'd also sprinkle into your 'Yes we are headed for divorce' responses a few 'Yes it is my dream to be married to you. We can be so incredibly happy if you commit to it.

If she's being negative 'we are getting divorced ', be negative back 'Yes as it stands' but put a positive spin wherever possible.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/09/18 02:17 AM
I'm finding it really hard to swoon her. It had always been so easy to talk with her and I have no problem talking to anyone else, I've always been a flirtatious person anyway but man it's tough lately.
On my prodding she did tell me that she feels trapped, uninspired, caged in and lonely. I asked if she meant in life in general or with us and she said mostly us.
She wants to be in the here and now not worrying about us in the future, I told her I can't and won't do that. I can't be on board while she decides if she even wants to put a foot in.
Posted By: unwritten Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/09/18 05:07 AM
You are making the mistake of listening to a wayward which is the equivalent of listening to a falling down drunk. You need to stop this and just stay the course.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/09/18 08:10 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I'm finding it really hard to swoon her. It had always been so easy to talk with her and I have no problem talking to anyone else, I've always been a flirtatious person anyway but man it's tough lately.
On my prodding she did tell me that she feels trapped, uninspired, caged in and lonely. I asked if she meant in life in general or with us and she said mostly us.
She wants to be in the here and now not worrying about us in the future, I told her I can't and won't do that. I can't be on board while she decides if she even wants to put a foot in.

Are you saying you can't plan A any more? She's asking for a free trial and plan A is that free trial where you demonstrate changes.

Do you have enough plan A left in you to ask her away on a trip?

It is very unlikely that a wayward wife is going to 'decide to put a foot in '. What usually happens is OM dumps them.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/09/18 12:55 PM
I told him to try and find out why she checked out of the marriage. Unfortunately, she is still in touch with the OM so all she is giving him is meaningless fogbabble.

Cyk, just do your best to present yourself in the best possible light and be a broken record about leaving her job and ending all contact with the OM.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/09/18 03:54 PM
Not saying I can't Plan A anymore just finding it hard right now.
I did ask her to go away this weekend no strings attached. She declined, she has to work this morning family event tomorrow, blah blah blah, just not enough time. She was going on the other day about never doing anything anymore, I asked her to go out Friday night she said maybe but again turned it down.
So I did a whole host of chores I've been putting off, I cleaned the house redid the gardens, bathed the dog and a host of other things, made her her favorite dinner.
We had a decent enough time, did my best to just talk to her tell jokes, flirt all that.
She never did want to go out and was pretty moody the whole time, I did my best to make it a good night at home.
She got really upset at one point stating that again she was home on Friday night -I re extended my offer to go out with a couple of different options and she said no she had to be up early and couldn't go out, she went to bed extremely early.

So far what she's told me about why it happened was she had been feeling very alone, unmotivated, stuck in the same cycle and unchallenged. She liked the fact the OM wanted to spend time with her, she was able to forget about all the problems of "adulting" didn't have to worry about the bills or the house or even her dogs. My work schedule and me renovating the house (which she so wanted to buy and fix) was finally too much. Her family and friends asking when we were going to have kids was driving her nuts.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/09/18 04:10 PM
CYK, I think the basic issue was the marriage was not fun anymore and she felt left behind. I think you have identified that. I would let her know that you realize you both neglected the marriage. If she will end her affair and leave that job, you have a PLAN to overcome the problems in your marriage, such as planning 4 - 4 hour dates per week. That is what it takes to maintain the romantic love in a marriage and you need to make that commitment to your marriage.....IF SHE QUITS HER JOB AND ENDS ALL CONTACT WITH THE OM.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/09/18 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She was going on the other day about never doing anything anymore, I asked her to go out Friday night she said maybe .

Aha! So she is tempted. It may be that she would get into trouble with OM which is even more reason to keep dangling bait. Can you get a dog sitter and encourage her to take time off? Make her feel tempted even if she doesn't bite.

I feel like your Plan Aing is going very well and a fatal blow to the affair, like her going away/on a date with her husband would tip things.

Originally Posted by CYk752
I've thought about contacting OM but not quite sure how to go about it.

No contact details?

Why not get him to contact you? I'm sure he would be in touch if you posted him on a cheater website and passed the message along to your wife that you were not done exposing him.

Posted By: LMH Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/11/18 03:24 PM
I would suggest contact him at work via phone if that is only contact details you have, if legal to do so record the phone conversation (many states only require consent of 1 party to do so (you being that one party)).

If you know where he works and his name you should be able to call during working hours and have an operator transfer your call.

I would recommend not leaving any answering machine message if you get his voicemail, also speak as if your words may be recorded on his end.

Do not make any sort of threat, but be direct, Melody may have some better details on what to say but something like "I will not give up fighting for my wife, and I will not be party to keeping your dirty secrets from the light of day" or similar may be appropriate.

Rehearse or write down what you will say beforehand, don't do it off the cuff as your anger may betray your interests.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/12/18 01:37 PM
I spent the whole weekend at home trying to present the best me and woo my WW. I'd have to say I don't feel like it went over all that well. Or maybe at least it's a start? She kept pretty quiet and distant all weekend, she asked me if I would go to her family's BBQ so she "wouldn't have to deal with her family's questions and ridicule" just on how she asked me I said no I wouldn't go, possible mistake.
Either way I got no reaction from her all weekend except cold and distant.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/12/18 02:30 PM
You're not going to see anything encouraging during plan A so don't let her snarkiness shake you.

Possibly a good call on the bbq. It sounds like she may have been warming up for a day of digs. If she asks just say you'd rather wait so they can see 'the recovery version'.

How are you?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/12/18 05:00 PM
Its not the snarkiness per say, it's like interacting with a brick wall.
She gets upset that I won't stay in the same room with her when she's home, but won't engage in anything when I'm with her. Sitting in silence and watching TV didn't seem like it was the best us time we could have spent. And I've asked daily now if she wants to go out but it's always something. Even today I asked if she wanted to have lunch but it's too busy for her she'll have to skip lunch today.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/12/18 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Either way I got no reaction from her all weekend except cold and distant.

This is very normal dealing with a WS who is still in contact with their affair partner, especially when you have ruined the fun part of the affair with exposure.

Is your WW still suspended from work? What about the OM?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/12/18 05:09 PM
You are SERIOUSLY missing major opportunities to warm her up!!!
Quote
she asked me if I would go to her family's BBQ so she "wouldn't have to deal with her family's questions and ridicule" just on how she asked me I said no I wouldn't go, possible mistake.
Either way I got no reaction from her all weekend except cold and distant.

WHAT? You said no?? This would have been a perfect opportunity to spend valuable time with her. Missed opportunity. This is something the OM can't do and it would have reminded her that you are unique in this regard.

Quote
She gets upset that I won't stay in the same room with her when she's home, but won't engage in anything when I'm with her.

Missed opporunity. Why won't you stay in the same room with her!??? i have to ask whose side you are on here? Yours or the OM?

Have you considered doing PLAN A?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/12/18 05:12 PM
You need to be looking for EVERY OPPORTUNITY to be with her. Expect her to be cold at first but she will thaw out. And who cares if she takes little digs at you? You are a big boy. Avoiding her makes that thaw farther and farther away.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/12/18 07:43 PM
I kinda figured I missed a good opportunity with the bbq, I said no to going from reaction to how she asked me.
And I have spent nearly every hour we were home together, together- she got mad when I got up to go to the bathroom or go to the kitchen, I caught on early enough that if we're not fighting I should be in the same room with her.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/14/18 06:17 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
And I've asked daily now if she wants to go out but it's always something. Even today I asked if she wanted to have lunch but it's too busy for her she'll have to skip lunch today.

The main thing is you are asking, she will be noticing that. It's normal for her to be aloof

When you can spend time with her do so - if you can without lovebusting.

I am a little worried about you though. Are you ok?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/15/18 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by CYk752
And I've asked daily now if she wants to go out but it's always something. Even today I asked if she wanted to have lunch but it's too busy for her she'll have to skip lunch today.

The main thing is you are asking, she will be noticing that. It's normal for her to be aloof

When you can spend time with her do so - if you can without lovebusting.

I am a little worried about you though. Are you ok?

I'm doing ok, a lot better than I was a couple weeks ago. Still stressed but better. Thank you.

I kinda feel like I'm asking too much. I was able to get a couple days off from work so I had a mini vacation. I made sure to be home with her every chance I got cooked dinner every night for her. I did ask her out to lunch every day this week, she couldn't because she was too busy but yesterday she told me she would be home early but she was going out with people from work first. She came home around 10pm. I asked if she wanted to spend some time together she said yes but sat on the couch texting constantly not focused on anything I was saying so I called it a night which she got upset about.
We did talk the other night, at her prompting. She stated that in order for us to move forward we needed to talk about everything. She stated that a week before I exposed she and OM had agreed to end it as it was the wrong time, I told her that since she was still in contact with him it wasn't over, I restated the plan, she became angry because I obviously didn't want to hear what she was saying and I was being unrealistic. I told her that I needed to have an affair proof marriage and I didn't want to go through this again.
She said there was no way to guarantee this would never happen again. Which I told her was unacceptable for me. We talked for another hour or so with her being pretty upset. She stormed off only to come back hug me and sat on my lap telling me she was sorry. I took it as a good sign but since there's been distance from her.
Posted By: LMH Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/15/18 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
This is very normal dealing with a WS who is still in contact with their affair partner, especially when you have ruined the fun part of the affair with exposure.

Is your WW still suspended from work? What about the OM?

I think this is pretty important. On the one hand we can hope she is mourning the loss of her affair, on the other hand if she has any contact with him, then the affair is not really over.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/16/18 12:43 AM
Originally Posted by LMH
Originally Posted by SusieQ
This is very normal dealing with a WS who is still in contact with their affair partner, especially when you have ruined the fun part of the affair with exposure.

Is your WW still suspended from work? What about the OM?

I think this is pretty important. On the one hand we can hope she is mourning the loss of her affair, on the other hand if she has any contact with him, then the affair is not really over.

She told me the affair was over and that I needed to realize and accept that she has a lot of emotions of it ending. I'm definitely biting my tongue on that one I don't like it but I do have to handle it. On the same note though the affair isn't over as she keeps contacting OM. I restated the plan and ended the conversation, kept cool but told her we are headed for divorce if we can't affair proof our marriage I don't nor can I go through this again.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/16/18 02:34 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Originally Posted by indiegirl
Originally Posted by CYk752
And I've asked daily now if she wants to go out but it's always something. Even today I asked if she wanted to have lunch but it's too busy for her she'll have to skip lunch today.

The main thing is you are asking, she will be noticing that. It's normal for her to be aloof

When you can spend time with her do so - if you can without lovebusting.

I am a little worried about you though. Are you ok?

I'm doing ok, a lot better than I was a couple weeks ago. Still stressed but better. Thank you.

I kinda feel like I'm asking too much. I was able to get a couple days off from work so I had a mini vacation. I made sure to be home with her every chance I got cooked dinner every night for her. I did ask her out to lunch every day this week, she couldn't because she was too busy but yesterday she told me she would be home early but she was going out with people from work first. She came home around 10pm. I asked if she wanted to spend some time together she said yes but sat on the couch texting constantly not focused on anything I was saying so I called it a night which she got upset about.
We did talk the other night, at her prompting. She stated that in order for us to move forward we needed to talk about everything. She stated that a week before I exposed she and OM had agreed to end it as it was the wrong time, I told her that since she was still in contact with him it wasn't over, I restated the plan, she became angry because I obviously didn't want to hear what she was saying and I was being unrealistic. I told her that I needed to have an affair proof marriage and I didn't want to go through this again.
She said there was no way to guarantee this would never happen again. Which I told her was unacceptable for me. We talked for another hour or so with her being pretty upset. She stormed off only to come back hug me and sat on my lap telling me she was sorry. I took it as a good sign but since there's been distance from her.

You are doing great!!! Just hang in there and stick to your guns. Be a broken record about her quitting her job and ending all contact.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/18/18 04:51 PM
I'm struggling with trying to connect with WW and I feel like I haven't been making any meaningful love bank deposits. She voiced that she's depressed and stressed out and not sure what she wants. And last night told me that the few times we've hugged recently it's made her extremely uncomfortable. She's not sure what she wants but she's taking it day by day and she's not ready to decide.
I was rereading an article Dr. Harley posted and what he said about the withdrawal stage of an affair and it seems she's in the midst of that. She did ask me last night what I need from her to facilitate us moving forward and I restated that plan. Like I said I feel that I'm making no headway, she seems to only want to spend time together when it's convenient for her and continues to decline any invitation to go out.
As Dr. Harley states and contact with OM will only restart the withdrawal process all over again. How do I get her to end this completely now? What are something's I can do to make big meaningful love bank deposits?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/18/18 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She did ask me last night what I need from her to facilitate us moving forward and I restated that plan. Like I said I feel that I'm making no headway, she seems to only want to spend time together when it's convenient for her and continues to decline any invitation to go out.

You ARE making headway. She is still fogged out, not in withdrawal, but is thinking about your offer. Keep painting a rosy picture for her that can only happen if she leaves the job and ends all contact with the OM. Tell her you want to have a marriage where you are both happy and in love. I know you don't think this looks good because it is going slow, but it is actually going very well.

Quote
What are something's I can do to make big meaningful love bank deposits?

You need to tell us. Think back on things you did for her when you were dating. What made the greatest lovebank deposits?

Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/18/18 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
She did ask me last night what I need from her to facilitate us moving forward and I restated that plan. Like I said I feel that I'm making no headway, she seems to only want to spend time together when it's convenient for her and continues to decline any invitation to go out.

You ARE making headway. She is still fogged out, not in withdrawal, but is thinking about your offer. Keep painting a rosy picture for her that can only happen if she leaves the job and ends all contact with the OM. Tell her you want to have a marriage where you are both happy and in love. I know you don't think this looks good because it is going slow, but it is actually going very well.

Quote
What are something's I can do to make big meaningful love bank deposits?

You need to tell us. Think back on things you did for her when you were dating. What made the greatest lovebank deposits?

Thanks for the reassurance that I'm making progress.
Honestly the best thing about us when we first started dating was our conversations. The first time we met we spent the whole night talking and would do that regularly. We were both always game for whatever and spontaneous day trips were our thing. So really just spending time together was a big factor for both of us. Something we both, or rather ME got away from doing.
Now though I'm finding it hard to talk with her about anything. I'm a little jealous and hurt when I asked her to lunch last Thursday she said her schedule was too full and had to work all day/ would be home late only for her to tell me she was leaving early to go out with friends.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/18/18 06:42 PM
Try to keep it pleasant and light and attract her into fun conversations. Don't be too serious, be fun and flattering and romantic when you can. it will come, you just have to be patient. I can tell she is thinking about it!
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/18/18 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I'm struggling with trying to connect with WW and I feel like I haven't been making any meaningful love bank deposits. She voiced that she's depressed and stressed out and not sure what she wants. And last night told me that the few times we've hugged recently it's made her extremely uncomfortable. She's not sure what she wants but she's taking it day by day and she's not ready to decide.

No this is all very promising! Have you read many other plan A threads? If you had, you would realise WWs are usually much, much more hostile than this! They are blatant about preferring OM and scathing to the BH: even that is not a hopeless picture, it's just a stage.

What you see here is a woman who is thinking it over and she wouldn't be doing that if your offer were not attractive to her. She must also be realising that the affair doesn't really measure up; but it is confusing when an affair collapses quickly; no doubt due to exposure.

I would paint her a lot of pretty pictures about the future. What are her dreams? Is there something she's always wanted to do as a couple? Somewhere she wants to live, vacation, go back to school or change careers? Have a family?

Dont expect her to seriously talk about those things but if you can lightly hint that youre the dream maker, she'll have more to think about!

Keep in mind, that one of her main complaints was not having an integrated life with you. So paint the picture of an inseparable couple, of a life where she gets a full vote on what happens.

You can't go wrong with affectionate daily texts.

'Remember when's ' are also a good one. Bring up your shared past and old jokes.

Also, don't catch her confusion. When she says hugs make her uncomfortable, just be soothing and confident. Say you know this is all happening very quickly for her and your love is a patient one.

Posted By: LMH Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/22/18 03:42 PM
Pulling for you Cyk!
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/24/18 06:30 AM
Each day is something new and things change quickly. We started the week off rough but it's been good the last couple days. We did have a more serious conversation that she initiated. She again was asking how do we work on us. I again laid out the plan she was more vocal about it. Stated that the affair was over but ending all communication and blocking OM from social media, etc., was unrealistic as was her leaving the career she wanted for so long.
I told her that if it wasn't ended completely and we couldn't work to affair proof our marriage I would still follow through with divorce. She told me it was impossible and impractical to guarantee that an affair would never happen again for herself or even for me. But we should take each day as is and see if we want to be together. After I stated that was unacceptable for me she got angry and we let it be for a few days.
She had begun asking if I wanted to sleep in her room with her, I accepted one night when we stayed up late talking but declined after our recent conversation. I got home late last night and she wanted to talk over drinks but it quickly escalated from there and we did spend the night together, which as of today she regrets.
I am unwilling to work on it if total separation isn't made and we can take necessary steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/24/18 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I am unwilling to work on it if total separation isn't made and we can take necessary steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

You are doing an excellent job!! Just be sure and paint a very wonderful picture of how your marriage can be if she leaves her job and ends all contact. You are being a broken record and that is what it takes.
Posted By: LMH Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/25/18 02:55 PM
Wow, good job Cyk! I'm proud of you, stick to those guns for the marriage you both deserve!
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/26/18 06:34 PM
At her invitation we went out last night, I've asked her out nearly every opportunity and always get a no, so I took her up on it. She immediately stated when we were out that she hasn't been living life and sitting at home isn't ideal for her. She also felt that we weren't making any progress which I agreed with. No guarantee of an affair proof marriage or total ending of the affair. She asked why else I felt we weren't making progress. I told her that I felt she still had a wall up and more often than not our interactions felt very one sided and communicating with her was challanging given all that.
She agreed that she had a wall and still wasn't sure what she wanted. With all the emotions and thoughts in her head it's been hard for her to move forward.
I told her she could tell me anything and i want her to talk to me not hold it all in. She wasn't ready and just wanted me to stop pushing so hard to work on things, just let it be.
I told her that as much as I love her I'm not going to be waiting around while she "explores what's out there" she got angry that I was giving her an ultimatum, be happy with me or be miserable alone. Cue the pity party.
I changed the subject to just have an enjoyable night out and not get stuck in a loop.
It feels good that we're talking again and spending time with each other, I've been making it a point to not let myself be a door mat to her. I have been getting more and more frustrated unfortunately by the fact that she's turned down every opportunity to go out and get out of the house (she reminds me consistently that she doenst want to sit at home) and that even though her phones glued to her hand she still doesn't respond to calls or texts.
Am I pushing too much? Any advice to be more effective in getting us to work on things or is it too soon?
I do feel like there's a shrinking window of making it work and resistance from her makes it tough.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/26/18 07:09 PM
I don't know if this helps with your frustration but WWs don't typically get intimate with their BHs or invite them out on dates! Even if she does sometimes revert to 'kitty hiding under the sofa' it's an extremely positive picture.

Pressure on the relationship is always bad, the pressure must be aimed at the affair. Carrot for wife, stick for affair. Do you have any idea what's going on in that direction? Do you think there was any exposure left undone? I know there can be very good successes with a more public exposure, such as a website. Or getting hold of his mother. Some thing guaranteed to make them fight would make her feel more inclined towards you.

Another idea is confronting OM and reminding him that youre not going anywhere, that you love her and that youre talking reconciliation.
Posted By: LMH Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/26/18 07:10 PM
First of all, this sucks Cyk, the whole thing has and I'm sorry you have to go through it.

You cannot see her window. There is no window. You cannot tell if it is shrinking or growing, except if your own is (as in getting fed up). I invite more experienced posters to correct me if I am steering you wrong here.

Avoid R talk. Avoid R talk. Got that? If it comes up, stick to your guns - checklist for affair proof marriage or no marriage - but then extricate immediately. If it is a repeat convo that goes nowhere just end it. Go for a walk, push yourself for a run for part of it, just get away.

Avoid R talk - invite her to activities where people have fun, but not sit around and chat - music, movies, museums, shooting range, fishing, whatever things you think she may enjoy or enjoyed in the past with you.

If you can talk about pleasant things without talking R then do so - fun memories (careful there, be sure it was times SHE had fun, not just you), compliments, etc., But if you always have R talk when going out to dinner, for example, than quit asking her out to dinner - she may be turning you down because she fears R talk.

Activities she enjoys will make LB deposits.
R talk will always be a withdrawal until she really agrees NC with OM. The longer or more heated the R talk, the bigger withdrawal.

Make some good LB deposits (even a rebuffed effort, if something she would truly enjoy, should be at least a small deposit). Make those LB deposits for as long as you can (as long as you can tolerate).

When YOU can tolerate no more, detach (actually I recommend working on detach the whole time), move forward with D, plan B.

Also Cyk - You can get through this. No matter what happens, and you can't control what does, YOU CAN GET THROUGH THIS.
Posted By: LMH Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/26/18 07:23 PM
ALSO - on those outing you do have with her - be sure to have a good time and enjoy it. Make it clear to her to her you are enjoying her company. If your heart isn't in it try telling yourself what I did - that each time your together it may be the last time so make the most of it!

But at the end of the night or activity snap out of it and don't get sappy - it may or may not be the last time but you will have a great life ahead of you no matter what!

I should add that from I have seen, it is when you have become fed up and are moving forward to be without her, that she is most likely to realize what she is about to lose and to try to R.

Not before, not after a big LB deposit, but when she can see that her husband (who even after all she's done) tried to make all these LB deposits is about be done with her - that's when she's likely to try to R if she will.

Also Indie is right about everything in her post, she makes all good points there!
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/26/18 07:55 PM
Indiegirl- I've exposed to everyone I could went through 2 years worth of OMs Facebook and instagram and messaged everyone. The last contact made was from her to him about 3 weeks ago.

LMH- I try to avoid any R talk when I can I don't bring it up and when we do get talking about it I'm the first to pull back. I have been trying to get her to open up and tell me what's going on what she's thinking etc., which is probably the same I guess.
The time I do spend with her I try to make it fun, just being together and being present for her. She's said she needed that most.
As I said my frustration is coming to a boiling point and I'm trying not to slip back to old habits of snarky comments or remarks (I've always been sarcastic) but I guess it is a good sign how things are going. It still bugs me when she says ending the affair isn't easy or simple and working on us is hard. "Really how hard was it than to step out of the marriage and get over me?"
I'm trying not to get to the point of being done so thanks for the encouragement and reassurance.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/26/18 08:08 PM
Cyk, you have nothing to lose really by hanging in there for about 6 months to see if she comes on board. I wouldn't spend much more time than that, though, because you could be focusing on building a great life for yourself.
Posted By: LMH Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/26/18 08:11 PM
Good, keep it up!

Keep steady, but take what you think you know about her last contact with him with a grain of salt if she is not being transparent about her phone.

Focus on being calm, confident, and pleasant.

Yes it sucks how easily they seem to chuck away the LBH, but that speaks about them, not you. Not the best comfort, I know, but it should have some.

Keep that snark in check, and keep practicing your good habits, and you'll be in good shape.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/26/18 09:13 PM
If the affair has had every knife thrown at it, it's just a matter of time.

Originally Posted by CYk752
I'm trying not to slip back to old habits of snarky comments or remarks (I've always been sarcastic) but I guess it is a good sign how things are going. It still bugs me when she says ending the affair isn't easy or simple and working on us is hard. "Really how hard was it than to step out of the marriage and get over me?"

I think then, that the months of Plan A will be just as transforming for you! Every sarcastic remark made in the past gets erased with every day that you show that you do not lovebust under even the most trying of circumstances. You would leave, sure; but you would not stay to do harm.

In this stage you can get a bit haunted by 'what if this is all for nothing?'. I can tell you that the biggest gift MB gives you is the eradication of your lovebusting habits. Even if your wife were not entertaining you, this experience would make you a gold level partner for someone. That's what happened to me.

So as Melody Lane says there's literally nothing to lose.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/26/18 10:23 PM
Again thanks for the advice and support.
For me it's not a matter of if this is all for nothing, I started down this road because I wanted to make sure I did everything I could to save my marriage but I see it coming down to if she wants to be married to me or if she even wants to be married at all.
I'm trying not to be defeated but these are questions I've had running through my mind for the near 5 months since this all started.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/26/18 10:35 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
but I see it coming down to if she wants to be married to me or if she even wants to be married at all. .

Here's the thing, she doesn't know how she feels because she is intoxicated on an affair. She is in the fog. It is like asking a falling down drunk if they want to be married.Until that drunk sobers, he won't have a rational answer. It is the same with your wife. Until she ends all contact with the OM, this going nowhere. This is why I suggested being a broken record about her quitting that job. If you can achieve that, you have a chance. If she won't, then recovery will be impossible and you should move on.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/26/18 11:38 PM
MelodyLane- I keep telling her but in all honesty I don't see her leaving her job. So I'm struggling with that and how to proceed.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 06/27/18 12:13 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
MelodyLane- I keep telling her but in all honesty I don't see her leaving her job. So I'm struggling with that and how to proceed.

If she won't leave the job, you have no chance. However, she seemed to be thinking about it.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/01/18 05:27 AM
I feel as though I am starting to reach a breaking point. I'm frustrated with her indecisiveness and her unsureness of what she wants. As she told me she thinks about the affair and OM daily and is torn weather or not she passed up fate. I get that there are emotions and what not but it's a hard pill to swallow.
I should be happy, she's taking vacation this week and asked me to go to the beach with her. I'm looking to rearrange my schedule to go but the being stuck in limbo is taking it's toll. Some days she wants to work on it and be together other days wants nothing to do with me.
I'm probably expected to move much faster than what it is on the positive a month and a half ago we weren't even talking.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/01/18 04:33 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I feel as though I am starting to reach a breaking point. .

If you get to the point where you are tempted to lovebust, try ADs or you might need to go into plan B, as it would be far preferable to lovebusting. Stay with it if you can.




Originally Posted by CYk752
. As she told me she thinks about the affair and OM daily and is torn weather or not she passed up fate. .

You dont have to listen to that if it's a trigger affecting your plan A and mental health. You can politely just tell her it bothers you/is too heart breaking for you. Other scripts:

"It wouldn't be a particularly kind fate for me"
"I don't want you ending up with a guy who abuses his position at work for an affair"
"Excuse me, that is too much for me to listen to" (leaves)
"I am begging you to stop breaking my heart with this refusal to give up on your affair "


Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/03/18 05:24 PM
We spent most of yesterday together went to the gym together (something we never did together) got lunch and lounged around the rest of the day.
We did go out last night which ended in a somewhat heated argument. She started the R talk which I asked if we could just keep enjoying the day together and not bring it down. She insisted we talk and she kicked it off with how she was still unsure of what she wants and she's missing out on life experiences. She hates that when I talk to her I start off by asking how her day is which she stated "it's always miserable and I do nothing"
I committed a big LB as I snapped back that all she tells me is she doesn't do anything and every time I make a suggestion to do anything she's never got the time, or she can't just pick up and go, her hairs a mess, or any other excuse.
She shot back with she's not sure what she wants but she's missing out and I just need to wait till she's ready to work on it.
I told her we weren't working on it or moving forward till we can follow the Plan and affair proof our marriage, I also wasnted to know that she wanted the same things in life and marriage and from what she's been telling me it seems we're not on the same page.
She got extremely mad that I keep bringing up the Plan and "whatever stupid book or website that told me to ruin her life by telling her family and friends our business had it all wrong. Nobody can ever guarantee an affair won't happen and I just need to wait till she decides what she wants!"
I got a little heated at that and told her if that's how she felt than we need to just end it and as soon as possible.
On our way home she said it was just a lot to deal with and 10 years is a lot to just throw away but so much has happened that it makes it hard and we always argue when we talk about it.
She left this morning for the beach for a few days as time away will hopefully help. I helped her load the car and our 2 dogs she hugged me and left.
I want to call her while she's gone but not sure if I should. We also talked about me going down sometime this week with her but not sure if I should still.
I'm torn I can't seem to pull away from her but yet I don't want to keep waiting. I do need to up my Love Bank deposits and stop Love Busting, I'm finding it hard to make big moves. The little ones are getting immediately withdrawn by both of us.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/03/18 06:42 PM
What can you do when you are with her to make deposits instead of love busters?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/04/18 05:57 AM
You can't afford to do this. Disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, selfish demands....it undoes weeks of needs meeting.

I have been waiting for this because you dont seem to respect the fact it can take months and instead think 'any day now' and get frustrated when it's not today. You don't expect her to be in cake eating mode and are surprised when she tries to keep things dramatic and unstable. If you think you're at your limit with plan A you have to be honest about that.

Its important that if/when you go into plan B, she remembers the stellar Plan A experience you were giving her. That she has something to miss. If you were to do that now she would just remember a fight where you didn't get your own way.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/04/18 01:16 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
You can't afford to do this. Disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, selfish demands....it undoes weeks of needs meeting.

I have been waiting for this because you dont seem to respect the fact it can take months and instead think 'any day now' and get frustrated when it's not today. You don't expect her to be in cake eating mode and are surprised when she tries to keep things dramatic and unstable. If you think you're at your limit with plan A you have to be honest about that.

Its important that if/when you go into plan B, she remembers the stellar Plan A experience you were giving her. That she has something to miss. If you were to do that now she would just remember a fight where you didn't get your own way.

You're right....I'm far too impatient with this whole thing. I reread everything In this thread and some other successful ones and am reevaluating myself.
I see that even small issues are resulting in big love busters and that needs to change. I am also realizing that this is going to be a little more one sided with me not really getting much from her.
Should I reach out to her while she's away? Should I still make plans to go see her? Since she's getting mad when I don't want to talk about the relationship when should we have that talk?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/04/18 02:40 PM
I think you need to take a break and seriously evaluate your frustration levels.

Get out of the fever cabin and do something for yourself.

Originally Posted by CYk752
since she's getting mad when I don't want to talk about the relationship when should we have that talk?

Relationship talks are completely futile before she leaves the job and goes N/C with the OM. It's like having a discussion about sobriety with a drunk. You have to just repeat 'when you're sober' or 'uh huh' or just leave the house.

It's absolutely fine if SHE gets mad; as long as you don't. Of course, that is hard to withstand which is why Plan A has an expiration date.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/04/18 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
[
Should I reach out to her while she's away? Should I still make plans to go see her? Since she's getting mad when I don't want to talk about the relationship when should we have that talk?

Cyk, when the discussion of your relationship comes up, I would be a broken record and say: I need for you to leave that job and end all contact with the OM. Otherwise this will lead to divorce. Don't fight with her and don't try to reason with her, just be a broken record.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/05/18 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
I have been waiting for this because you dont seem to respect the fact it can take months and instead think 'any day now' and get frustrated when it's not today. You don't expect her to be in cake eating mode and are surprised when she tries to keep things dramatic and unstable.

This is a common difficulty for husbands in Marriage Builders. We expect to see some sort of gradual improvement and there's not any. Even when the wife is not a cake eating wayward, the change is not gradual - there's a sudden avalanche of change when passing the romantic love threshold in your account in her love bank, so sudden and unexpected it surprises the wife herself. No leadup to it whatsoever. And when contact with an affair partner is still going on, there's not going to be any change until the affair dies, so your job is to hasten the end of the affair and be the best husband you can be with Plan A so that she chooses you when she detoxifies from her addiction and her brain comes back.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/23/18 05:26 PM
After two weeks it's probably best for an update. I did reach out to WW while she was at the beach just to say hi and she invited me to come. I took her out that night and spent the next day on the boardwalk shopping and lounged on the beach all day (two things she loves)
We stayed on the beach till it started to get dark. As we were packing up she went to the water I followed after a few minutes where she stood crying asked me for a moment to herself and was there another 10 minutes. It was a quiet rest of the night and we drove home separately.
The next week was all good we spent time together and even went out the following weekend and had a great time together she did brake down that night and cried to me about how sorry she was sorry about everything and how wrong she was and she doesn't want to loose me.
Things were good for a couple days we talked one night we both got home late and she said she was happy with how things were with us but something still isn't right, she was missing me most days now but when we would see each other she just doesn't feel any desire for physical affection. She told me she still had stuff to workout and she wasn't sure want she wants but since I've stayed this long she's not worried about loosing me since I'll wait for her. Um what? This comment has been nagging me for the last couple days.
We spent the last three days together. I moved my schedule around to better fit her and got 2 days off to spend with each other. Yesterday was good but as we were laying on the couch yesterday playing with our dogs she put her legs over mine and I started rubbing her foot, she snapped at me that she needs me to not touch her. I'm still monitoring to see if there is any contact with OM but haven't seen anything since beginning of June. Since coming back from the beach she's been sleeping in the master bedroom with me again. I'm trying to not LB and after yesterday I don't want to slip backwards I want to make sure my impatience is in check. I am curious if this is all good progress or not. I know it's been evident that I'm impatient and had been getting frustrated by the seemingly one sided efforts on my part.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/23/18 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I've stayed this long she's not worried about loosing me since I'll wait for her. Um what? This comment has been nagging me for the last couple days...

Ah the lady protests too much. I talk all the time about the stuff I'm NOT worried about, dont you?

To me it all sounds good. Like she's still clearly very foggy but the Plan A is clearly going well and has her thinking. Snapping at the BH for an incidental touch is very typical too.

Pep used to say something in her notable 'Be Still' post about how the wayward persona was built up bit by bit like a house and it takes time to come down.

I'll dig it out
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/24/18 11:24 AM
Cyk, it sounds like things are going good. Just guessing, I would wager there is trouble in her affair. I would reiterate the point that this will lead to divorce unless she quits that job and commits to no contact. Let her know you won't be waiting forever.

Does she have a sexual aversion? What do you think triggered her reaction when you touched her?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/24/18 04:26 PM
found it! it was by a poster named Arkie, not Pep:

Originally Posted by Arkie
the goal is not marriage rebuilding at any cost...
the goal is guiding yourself to a place of stillness...no matter the outcome....

the anatomy of a WS is that they changed and molded their own thought processes so that they could engage in a affair....

they did this....
they did this....over time and in a way in which they can barely see the reality of this...but they did do it...

be still

it takes time.....

too many posts are from BS with unrealistic EXPECTATIONS which will harm you...

it is unrealistic to think that the thought processes needed to engage in such vile actions....vanishes over night

working through affair issues takes time...gobs and gobs of it...
and if you find yourself standing in a place of demanding change and specified responses, introspection, apologies, and instant change...

be still

for you are causing more grief that you need to burdon....

they did this...and they must undo this...
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/24/18 06:44 PM
Indiegirl-thanks for finding that. Sound advice for sure!

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Cyk, it sounds like things are going good. Just guessing, I would wager there is trouble in her affair. I would reiterate the point that this will lead to divorce unless she quits that job and commits to no contact. Let her know you won't be waiting forever.

Does she have a sexual aversion? What do you think triggered her reaction when you touched her?

From what she's said/what I've seen and what she told me last night no contact has been made since beginning of June. I know not a lot of time. No sexual aversion at least there never was any. She had always been a very sexual person which had caused an issue only a few times in our 10 years together. I had always made it a point to not spend anytime with women while she kept male friends.

She called me last night and we talked while we drove home I got in the door and she was upset as she had been thinking about things all day and is still very angry with exposure. She's not sure where she's at or what she wants. She's not sure if our issues we had leading up to this can be fixed. She started to talk about the affair but wasn't ready to share details. She asked other than her leaving her job where do we start and how do we fix it.
I told her I wasn't ready to discuss the affair or relationship until she wrote a letter and ended it completely. We basically rehashed the same discussion.
It ended with her telling me I just need to accept where she's at and wait till she figures out what she wants. I did get angry but ended it before I said anything and went to bed.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/24/18 09:41 PM
oh wow!!! she is really thinking it over. You are headed in the right direction.

I don't understand this statement:
Quote
From what she's said/what I've seen and what she told me last night no contact has been made since beginning of June.

Doesn't she work at the same place? How could there be no contact?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/25/18 12:53 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
oh wow!!! she is really thinking it over. You are headed in the right direction.

I don't understand this statement:
Quote
From what she's said/what I've seen and what she told me last night no contact has been made since beginning of June.

Doesn't she work at the same place? How could there be no contact?

They work for the same company but different locations.
Glad you think it's headed in the right direction it doesnt seem like it at times especially when I hit her with we are still headed for divorce it kills the vibe for a couple days.

She just called a little bit ago to tell me after thinking about things last night she knows I can't wait forever so I need to do what's best for me.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/25/18 05:43 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
. She asked other than her leaving her job where do we start and how do we fix it.
.

HAHAHAHAAAAAA!

Bingo.

I don't see the harm in giving her the written steps of the plan. Maybe attach a nice love letter of what your relationship could be like.

Given her present demeanour of 'Not that I want to, but what would that look like?' shed probably pore over it in private.

Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/27/18 03:52 PM
WW went out last night and got home around midnight I had just gotten into bed when she came home and she was immediately upset that I wasn't waiting up for her because she was in the mood to spend time together. She got into bed and started scrolling through Facebook and sending texts I asked how work and her night were. She got angry and feels like I keep pestering her and I should just let her lay in bed and leave her alone. I said no problem layed down and went to put my arm around her. She snapped again and an argument ensued.
I told her I wasn't going to argue with her, I wasn't sure what her adversion to me was but this isn't how I would be spending the night. She told me at this point I was just being disrespectful and why can't I just let her be. She kept at it until I told her again I wouldn't be fighting with her and if she wanted to keep at it she should probably not sleep in the master bedroom. She kept at it but I stayed silent and she went to the guest room.
I woke her this morning as she was over sleeping and she asked how I was and about my schedule for the day what I had planned and when I'd be home.
I'm trying not to listen to her words but am paying more attention to her actions and it seems like things are slipping backwards she's had a wave of emotions over the last couple days good one moment and angry the next.
Any advice on what I should or shouldn't be doing at this point?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/27/18 04:54 PM
She is going to be up and down because I suspect her affair is up and down. It will stay this way until she leaves that job. I bet she is still in touch with the OM. Are you spying on her?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/27/18 05:49 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
She is going to be up and down because I suspect her affair is up and down. It will stay this way until she leaves that job. I bet she is still in touch with the OM. Are you spying on her?

Yeah still keeping tabs, everything checks out no contact since June.
Maybe it's my paranoia from all this but I get this nagging thought that she ended the affair to say that she tried to work on the marriage but it was US not OM that ended the marriage.
I'm trying not to listen to family/friends who tell me that if she wanted to save the marriage she'd be doing everything possible to make amends,not be on the fence.
The advice here has been true so far, so I'm sticking to the book as best I can.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/27/18 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
.
Maybe it's my paranoia from all this but I get this nagging thought that she ended the affair to say that she tried to work on the marriage but it was US not OM that ended the marriage..

Oh that totally happens. The WS and OP agree to not talk and reunite in the future. But I really do get the impression that she seriously considers a future with you. Typically in the 'reunion' plan the WS feels free to be scathing and causes all kinds of fights to force you out sooner rather than later. But it's clear your wife revels in your plan A and is not too concerned with Plan Burn Down Marriage.

Besides, it's an addiction. Even if they agree to not talk, if the affair is still fun they will. Frequently.


Originally Posted by MelodyLane
She is going to be up and down because I suspect her affair is up and down. It will stay this way until she leaves that job. I bet she is still in touch with the OM. Are you spying on her?

I've got to agree here. She was showing signs of stress and indecision prior to this. She may have gone back to him asking if he can beat your conditional offer, with the 'unconditional love' that typified their unexposed affair.

Only now it's exposed and subject to reality, so it's probably not worth his time. Or he has a bunch of conditions, like she has to get control of you and your tendency to expose.

What spying methods are you using? I think that they will probably just contact each other at work but if you do happen to catch an out-of-work message it would be enlightening.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/27/18 06:29 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Yeah still keeping tabs, everything checks out no contact since June.
"Keeping tabs" is not enough when it's a workplace affair. Even if you had a VAR in her office and keylogger on her office computer/s and access to her work email, which I doubt you do.

The reason that leaving a workplace is so strongly emphasized here on this site is that there is absolutely no way for you to monitor if the coworker affairees are in contact, unless you are standing right there with your WW the entire time. Every time I have seen people here try to recover with their spouse working with the OP "in a different location" the affair continues. It's too easy. Plus your WW knows you are on to the affair, so she's going to work EXTRA hard to make sure you don't know what she's up to.

Quote
Maybe it's my paranoia from all this but I get this nagging thought that she ended the affair to say that she tried to work on the marriage but it was US not OM that ended the marriage.
Part of being a gaslit BS is that you question yourself and tend to at times want to minimize the role the affair is playing in CURRENT marital issues - because that's what the WS fog spew has done to you. Your WW is acting exactly the way that a wayward does when they are still in contact.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/27/18 07:03 PM
Yeah I have no real way of knowing what's going on at the workplace and I was afraid that with how she's been acting it may be a sign of the affair still going on. No calls or texts and VAR in the car has nothing.
She did at one point shortly after she said it ended say she felt it wasn't right timing for them, so it's been on my mind. But I guess I should listen to my gut feelings on this.
It was looking good for a bit than all this started back up and her emotions have been all over the place. I'll see what else I can do to find if they are still in contact. It's definitely messing with me that she wants to be back in the master bedroom again and spend time together but god forbid I show any signs of physical affection large or small.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/27/18 08:43 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
She is going to be up and down because I suspect her affair is up and down. It will stay this way until she leaves that job. I bet she is still in touch with the OM. Are you spying on her?

Yeah still keeping tabs, everything checks out no contact since June.

BUT, she still has many ways and I think the affair is still on. She can easily contact him at work and you would never know.

Quote
Maybe it's my paranoia from all this but I get this nagging thought that she ended the affair to say that she tried to work on the marriage but it was US not OM that ended the marriage.

You are exactly right! It is a classic ploy.

Quote
I'm trying not to listen to family/friends who tell me that if she wanted to save the marriage she'd be doing everything possible to make amends,not be on the fence.
The advice here has been true so far, so I'm sticking to the book as best I can.

Women don't do anything to make amends after an affair. Your wife is the rule, not the exception. But you do have a chance to win her back. It wont hurt you to try for a while. I can tell she is becoming very confused and is looking very hard at you.

I am telling you as someone who has seen hundreds of these cases that the reason your marriage is crumbling is 100% due to her affair.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: I need help to save my marriage - 07/27/18 09:47 PM
Just knowing the possibility exists to meet OM in the workplace is a trigger. Seeing a car like his on the parking lot wil make her wonder if he's there today. Even if there would not be any contact, the mere possibility keep him on her mind and makes it so much more difficult to recover. If they used work email to communicate, opening her mailbox might even be a trigger. Don't underestimate this.

In a weak moment she will be triggered and tempted to check his facebook or linkedin or whatever. Don't underestimate the addiction.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/12/18 01:42 PM
We had a good week followed by an ok week. I've been taking her out as much as I can as this was an issue she had with us but she protests about everything under the sun and begrudgingly will go out. While out the other night we were getting along fine she brought up the topic of us wearing our rings again but has been putting it off because she still thinks about all the ways I left her alone and again exposure of the affair. The night derailed pretty quick at that point and since she's been picking fights with me at every turn.
I called her yesterday morning just to talk with her and she said we should see a marriage counselor to help us but she would like to talk at night. I unfortunately got home much later than we discussed (something which has been happening more frequently with my job) rightfully so she was angry, but felt that it was just a sign that we're not making progress and her being alone is why she had an affair in the first place but yet she's made out to be the bad guy in all this.
I told her that without an affair proof Plan there is no way we could make it work. Which she told me I should stop worrying about the future and things we can't control and it's not like she's seeing anyone now so I should drop the affair.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/12/18 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I told her that without an affair proof Plan there is no way we could make it work. Which she told me I should stop worrying about the future and things we can't control and it's not like she's seeing anyone now so I should drop the affair.

Cyk, I would explain to her that her affair was the most painful thing you have experienced and you are not willing to go through that again. Ask what she is willing to do to protect you from that. Be a broken record, because you should not even consider a future with her unless steps are taken. At some point, you might need to cut your losses and move on.

ALSO, I would strongly urge you not to go to marriage counseling, because they are destructive to marriages. The typical MC does not understand the dynamics of infidelity and is more likely to validate wayward fog, making it harder for you to save your marriage. The typical MC will have you both air your grievances in a session [major lovebusting] and you both leave more angry than before. It is almost always a disaster.

You don't need marriage counseling, you need her commitment to affair proof your marriage.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/12/18 03:05 PM
Read this Beware of Bad Counselors
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/12/18 04:50 PM
MelodyLane- I'm really hesitant about seeing a marriage counselor again we saw one when all this started and it was nothing more than a reassurance to her that an affair was acceptable and the last straw was that I should move out to give her space. No actuall marriage saving going on.

BrainHurts- I read through most of what's been posted here even referenced back to what Dr. Harley wrote about finding one. As I've said the last experience left a bad taste in my mouth.

Overall I'm still at the point where I want to jump back in and push through everything but the resistance from her makes it hard. But the flip side to it is that she's been planning a trip for us for an extended weekend for us to go to a friends wedding. I'm excited but hesitant to go. I'm not sure if we should delve into any relationship talks. We did talk the other week where she expressed that she made a commitment to marriage and doesn't want it to end but something just doesn't feel right to her. She's finding it hard to connect or be intimate in anyway with me.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/12/18 05:16 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
MelodyLane- I'm really hesitant about seeing a marriage counselor again we saw one when all this started and it was nothing more than a reassurance to her that an affair was acceptable and the last straw was that I should move out to give her space. No actuall marriage saving going on.

Oh good, I am relieved that you already know that MC don't know how to save marriages.

Quote
But the flip side to it is that she's been planning a trip for us for an extended weekend for us to go to a friends wedding. I'm excited but hesitant to go. I'm not sure if we should delve into any relationship talks. We did talk the other week where she expressed that she made a commitment to marriage and doesn't want it to end but something just doesn't feel right to her. She's finding it hard to connect or be intimate in anyway with me.

I suspect the reason she is not connecting at this point is a) still in some sort of contact with the OM - this can even be driving by his car, gawking at his facebook page or occasional contact. I wonder if he is stringing her along? b) your contact with her has been unpleasant. I would stop relationship talks except for reminding her from time to time that you are not willing to go through another affair and this will lead to divorce if there is not a plan in place to protect you and create a romantic, happy marriage. Be a broken record but after that, just drop the subject. Try and have as much fun as you can with her.

You also need to be thinking about your future without her. That may be the definition of success for you and I want to give you hope. We have many members who moved on and are in fantastic, fulfilling marriages today. While I agree you should do everything in your power to make this work, there comes a time when you may have to accept you are getting no return on your investment and that investment should be better placed elsewhere. Its like a failing restaurant; sometimes it is better to accept that you can't overcome a bad location and your investment would be better spent on a new place in a better location. But if you are spending all your time at the bad location, you can't be working on a winning strategy.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/12/18 07:24 PM
I have been steering away from the relationship talks. I've been a broken record which seems to be some of the anger from her. She'll want to talk and I'll repeat the Plan and it it she gets angry that won't talk about moving forward.
I did pull back this week after it seemed like everything from her was picking a fight. Which made her mad that I wasn't spending time with her or talking with her.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/12/18 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I have been steering away from the relationship talks. I've been a broken record which seems to be some of the anger from her. She'll want to talk and I'll repeat the Plan and it it she gets angry that won't talk about moving forward.

That's fine, just keep it up. Remember, your goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid her anger at all costs. What makes her ANGRY is that you want to affair proof your marriage.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/15/18 01:05 PM
Forgive me if I am forgetting something, but does she know how you will enact your promise of being home more if she decides to go for it? I see she went cuckoo and was in full on wayward mode the night you got home from work late. It pales in comparison to your pain, but it is going to trigger lonely memories as well as justification mode.

I'm not saying quit your job; until she's on board you need to be planning for a divorce. It's also more important and urgent that she quits her job and I doubt you want to both quit work together.

I just think this aspect of The Plan bears some parroting. Instead of relationship talk, paint a picture of the future; "I can't wait to start hunting for x style job, this means we could do more y activity. Look at these job ads I found! I can't wait to get started on applying when you've quit.'"

Oh, and this may be a highly impractical suggestion, but I'm tossing it in. Would her skillset at all suit running a business alongside you? Its a dream of yours, she uses the word 'alone' a lot, and she needs a different job. The offer, even if she doesn't like it, would express a desire to be with her more and admiration of her professional skills.

Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/15/18 05:08 PM
indiegirl- I should probably tell her more about me switching jobs or careers. I know I've expressed it before but my work doesn't exactly fit a family life I want. Gone weekends, holidays, late nights etc. I know and work with many others who have a good family life and make it work but I don't see it for us. I had been putting it off till we were ready to have kids and make that change.

To me it feels more like we're roommates. I'll try to engage her in conversation which usually goes no where or is extremely one sided. Put my self in the same room and give it 10 min or so with no interaction from her. I'll make dinner but she's not hungry or ate earlier. She's back in the master bedroom but that's as far as things go.
We made plannes to go the the beach this weekend but I'm not really looking forward to it with how we've been. She's been hitting me with "So much has happened and I just want to take things really slow, be friends and go from there" I find it's a weird statement to make.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/17/18 10:57 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
. Gone weekends, holidays, late nights etc. I know and work with many others who have a good family life and make it work but I don't see it for us. .

When I first came here I thought Dr H's insistence that people spend 15 hours a week together, or they would not be in love, was unrealistic, exaggerated or at the very least included a wide margin of error. I knew people! People who worked away but were devoted to their families!

Yeah, they're either divorced now or it's clear to me that they may have a good, well scheduled family life, but they don't have the best romantic life. Maybe for a couple of years they can remember that feeling but they can't go longer than that. The divorce announcements were very much out of the blue and shocking to everyone but me.

Originally Posted by CYk752
. I had been putting it off till we were ready to have kids and make that change..

I did the same thing and never got there. It's difficult to make kids without romantic love!

Originally Posted by CYk752
indiegirl- I should probably tell her more about me switching jobs or careers. .

So what is the plan? She should know what it is you are hoping she'll sign up to. She should have some experience of you doing something about it. Since you should be modelling PoJA you should be asking her opinions about different fields and lifestyles.

I also say this as someone who chose divorce as my success story; how much do you want a romantic life with someone else if this fails? Are you going to be ready for that person? The main point of following the plans is to start developing good marital habits within yourself. Sure, the hope is that the WS sees them and wants in on that lasting happiness, but if they don't you have a lifestyle focus someone else will snap up.

For me, that meant changing my career focus and listening to Dr Hs advice that success in everything else follows from success at home.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/21/18 01:05 PM
Little update. We went away this weekend and by all accounts we had a great time together. Or so I thought. She called me as we both drove home from work, all good, got home and she she's was in an odd mood, said she was flip flopping in her mind all day and after some talking on her end she confessed that she contacted OM about and employee transfer.
I told her that this was the reason she needs to leave her job and since she's made contact again she needs to write/email/call anything ending all communication. She gave push back saying it was over, but the thoughts of what she's done are always there daily but it's over with him.
She was adamant that we see a marriage counselor so we can see if we can work it out, or if everything she's feeling is just her unrealistic expectations. She stated she wants someone to convince her to make it work. I was left with feeling like she wants to go so she can say she tried everything. Not because she wants to.
She became really upset when I told her that and that if she wasn't going to cut all contact i would proceed with the divorce and our Dday is fast approaching.
She feels like I keep giving her ultimatums and she needs time to decide but right now she's only in maybe 50% but wants the push to want to repair our marriage.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/21/18 01:35 PM
Cyk, Why don't you pick up the book Fall in Love, Stay in Love and see if you can sell her on it? Tell her that if she can help affair proof your marriage, leave her job and end all contact with the OM, this is what you would want for your marriage. Tell her about falling in love again using the concepts in that book. I agree she wants to go to counseling so she can say she "tried."
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/21/18 02:53 PM
Just ordered a copy. I was debating if I should be giving her any books to read. I've been going over what Dr. Harley's written about marriage counseling. If she's set on going to a counselor any suggestions on additional guidelines or things that we should do before going?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/21/18 04:39 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Just ordered a copy. I was debating if I should be giving her any books to read. I've been going over what Dr. Harley's written about marriage counseling. If she's set on going to a counselor any suggestions on additional guidelines or things that we should do before going?

I wouldn't go unless a) the purpose is to save your marriage and b) they use the MB plan. Otherwise, you are going to only validate the fogged out feelings of a wayward that the MC won't understand. If the goal is not to effect recovery, then it is to get validation for her to end the marriage or get validation for her foggy ideas, which does not help you. Just imagine if she finds a MC who would validate her ideas that affair proofing is impossible and that you are 'controlling" to ask her to leave her job and end all contact?

Since she is so gung ho about "counseling" would she agree to speak to Dr Harley on his radio show?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/22/18 05:11 PM
She wanted to talk more about whats going on "in her head" she's still flip flopping and back and forth between what to do. She told me it would be nice if I was trying to pursue her more, send flowers like I used to and try and chase after her. The times I spend with her now I just let her talk and listen, something I had gotten away from doing, last night we stayed up until 2. Im wading my way through her fog babble as I know with her making contact with OM again it resets us to zero. She's not sure why she did as she said it's brought up all the feelings again.
I told her that since she's remade contact she needs to ended or we aren't moving forward.
What should my next moves be? Do I chase? Pull back?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/22/18 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She wanted to talk more about whats going on "in her head" she's still flip flopping and back and forth between what to do. She told me it would be nice if I was trying to pursue her more, send flowers like I used to and try and chase after her. The times I spend with her now I just let her talk and listen, something I had gotten away from doing, last night we stayed up until 2. Im wading my way through her fog babble as I know with her making contact with OM again it resets us to zero. She's not sure why she did as she said it's brought up all the feelings again.
I told her that since she's remade contact she needs to ended or we aren't moving forward.
What should my next moves be? Do I chase? Pull back?

Chase her!! women like that.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/22/18 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by CYk752
She wanted to talk more about whats going on "in her head" she's still flip flopping and back and forth between what to do. She told me it would be nice if I was trying to pursue her more, send flowers like I used to and try and chase after her. The times I spend with her now I just let her talk and listen, something I had gotten away from doing, last night we stayed up until 2. Im wading my way through her fog babble as I know with her making contact with OM again it resets us to zero. She's not sure why she did as she said it's brought up all the feelings again.
I told her that since she's remade contact she needs to ended or we aren't moving forward.
What should my next moves be? Do I chase? Pull back?

Chase her!! women like that.
Yes, do your best Plan A.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 08/22/18 09:47 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
. She told me it would be nice if I was trying to pursue her more, send flowers like I used to and try and chase after her.

Wow, a wayward wife actually asking to be chased!

She is on the brink! Do you think you could get her interested in MB? Pitch it like it's her idea. 'I was thinking about what you said'; talk about the bits that would particularly appeal to her such as marriage before career, lots of fun dates and daily affection etc. Then ask her to speak to Dr H; you could even call the counselling centre ran by the Harleys if she's keen on that, but you might not want to spend money on counselling until she's gone NC.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/04/18 04:28 PM
I've been reading through Fall in Love, Stay in Love and trying to making some adjustments.
We had a very rough extended weekend together. We had a trip planned and our first night out she expressed she didn't feel like we were making any progress everything I've been doing was nice appreciated but she just wasn't feeling any connection. She wanted to go through the rest of the trip as friends and not as husband and wife. On our way home we did get into the relationship talk she expressed that she doesn't know what she wants, she's unsure if she wants to be married still. She told me she didn't feel like anything was getting better because she still isn't felling connected to me and isn't sure what the hang up is. She feels like she's tried everything she could but want ready to give up.
She felt originally the hold up was because of the affair but for her so much time has passed and her feelings are still the same about us and she doesn't feel it's getting better she's not sure what to do.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/04/18 10:57 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I've been reading through Fall in Love, Stay in Love and trying to making some adjustments.
We had a very rough extended weekend together. We had a trip planned and our first night out she expressed she didn't feel like we were making any progress everything I've been doing was nice appreciated but she just wasn't feeling any connection. She wanted to go through the rest of the trip as friends and not as husband and wife. On our way home we did get into the relationship talk she expressed that she doesn't know what she wants, she's unsure if she wants to be married still. She told me she didn't feel like anything was getting better because she still isn't felling connected to me and isn't sure what the hang up is. She feels like she's tried everything she could but want ready to give up.
She felt originally the hold up was because of the affair but for her so much time has passed and her feelings are still the same about us and she doesn't feel it's getting better she's not sure what to do.

This was on 8-21-18:

Quote
said she was flip flopping in her mind all day and after some talking on her end she confessed that she contacted OM about and employee transfer.

That contact put her back to day 1 and she is probably still in contact.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/05/18 03:16 AM
Any thoughts on how to proceed from here? I knew the moment she told me she contacted OM that it reset us to day 1 things were looking good or I thought progress was being made. I'm not sure what to do though especially after this weekend. She did wake me up this morning with a kiss goodbye which is out of place. I need to readjust my approach with her as I'm unsure what's making the most Love Bank Deposits.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/05/18 12:38 PM
How long are you willing to plan A for? It's two years max, the longer the better but people have their own timelines; some people only want to do six months, understandably.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/05/18 01:40 PM
Well it's coming up on 7 months since everything started. The stress and anxiety sucks to say the least, it's all I can think about most days and my Dr is a little apprehensive about depression meds. I'm scared to lose her and I want to make this right. I know it's not going to be quick I just want to make sure I'm on the right track and doing the right things.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/05/18 03:48 PM
Seven months is a solid effort.

I think it might help you to set your own deadline in advance. One that you don't communicate to her (that would be a threat). This prevarication and indecisiveness is completely typical in Plan A, because contact is happening in Plan A and when contact is happening, annoying fogginess is the result.

It might just be helpful as a coping mechanism if when she hand-wrings you can say to yourself; 'Welp, you've only got x more months to figure it out and I'm going to make sure I'm happy no matter what you decide'.

I am kind of in awe of you men and your willingness to Plan A for months. My deadline setting was a bit different, because as a woman I was advised to plan B which makes you feel more detached. I started the plans in the desperate hope of achieving recovery. By the seven month point I was planning on cutting him off entirely as soon as I got the divorce finalised, which happened at the 14 month mark. By that time I felt divorce was not my failure, and he'd had plenty of opportunity and I felt good about not having to do recovery.

If we'd had kids I probably would have given it the full two years, but for me he ran out of time a bit sooner. Only you can decide. Plan A is different in that it's more proactive and the longer you can do it the better. I wouldn't go past a point of mental health though.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/05/18 04:50 PM
There have been those moments when I'm frustrated enough that I want to throw in the towel but I just can't and I boomerang back too quick. It's definitely painful to see her pullback or not reach out or push me away and more I could go on and on. I've been thinking about what she said the other day, she feels like we never really discussed things and still feels I get too angry and defensive when she talks about the affair or how she tried for so long to be in the marriage before this. She feels I never want to talk about the marriage or our problems. She hates that I say if XYZ doesn't change we're still headed for divorce, feels like I'm threatening with ultimatums. I thought I had been reiterating the plan well but I guess it's too much of a broken record?
There had been a couple of times we've had sex but she still feels like theres no connection on her part and she's tried everything to make it happen. She had moved back into the master bedroom in June and we've been sleeping in the same bed ever since. Even this weekend after she told me she didn't want to be a couple she insisted on sleeping in the same bed. I did tell her while coming home and I've said it before she couldn't be in the MB with me out of convenience for her if she didn't want the marriage, its too much of a mental emotional drain on me. But still she stays and we sleep in the same bed usually with her snuggling up to me but if I get too close I'm smothering or too pushy it's all an emotional punch for me.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/05/18 07:09 PM
This is where you need to lead the conversation. Find out what the problems were in the marriage and find solutions together. But you need to stand fast and let her know if the conditions don't change this will lead to divorce. That is not an ultimatum. An ultimatum is a punishment. You are not planning to punish her, you are planning on protecting yourself from another affair. You are projecting yourself from punishment, which is your right.

No SANE person would stay in a relationship that has a very high risk of adultery unless they are a swinger. You are simply stating a fact that this will lead to divorce if the conditions don't change.

And you need to start thinking about an exit strategy if you don't see things changing in the near future.. She might not be marriage material at all and if that is the case, you could be using your time finding a good match who believes in an affair proof marriage.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/05/18 07:10 PM
Will she read Fall in Love, Stay in Love?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/05/18 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
There had been a couple of times we've had sex but she still feels like theres no connection on her part and she's tried everything to make it happen. .

I wouldn't have sex with her then until there's enthusiasm. Wait until she's palpably swooning. Stick to just affection in bed for now which she's clearly lapping up. I'm a meanie, I know.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
. Find out what the problems were in the marriage and find solutions together.
.

I really like this. It's excellent PoJA practice. You could let her have a moan and be making affection deposits the whole time just by making sympathetic noises. Then flip it to 'what would you like to see happen instead?' and boom you're in a positive conversation.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/05/18 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Will she read Fall in Love, Stay in Love?

She seemed interested when I bought it I started reading it she said she looked at it and asked if this was the same place I got the idea to expose and got very angry again about the exposure. I haven't brought it back up to her yet.

I would genuinely like to know the why's and I've told her I'm not interested in the gritty details of the affair only why it happened and what's missing what does she need but her only reply has been she's told me before all this and I didn't listen. Even when she talks about it I ask the whys and what she feels and what's missing but get push back and she closes off.

Originally Posted by indiegirl
I wouldn't have sex with her then until there's enthusiasm. Wait until she's palpably swooning. Stick to just affection in bed for now which she's clearly lapping up. I'm a meanie, I know.

Yeah as much as I would like to no enthusiasm is a big turn off and I don't see it helping anything.

How should I approach the conversion of finding out what our problems are and finding solutions should I wait for her or bring it up. I don't want to push or have her feel like I'm pushing for the R talk.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/05/18 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
[

How should I approach the conversion of finding out what our problems are and finding solutions should I wait for her or bring it up. I don't want to push or have her feel like I'm pushing for the R talk.


I would avoid those conversations as much as you can. All it does it bring the misery of the past into the present. If you can, focus on making each other happy in the present. I would print out some of the questionaires and ask her to fill them out. Fill out lovebusters, emotional needs and marital problem analysis. Let her know that this program addresses all the problems in marriage. https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4500_resource.html
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/06/18 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She seemed interested when I bought it I started reading it she said she looked at it and asked if this was the same place I got the idea to expose and got very angry again about the exposure. I haven't brought it back up to her yet..

Do you have the paper version? The kind with the little quizzes and checklists?

I've been mulling this one over, and WW tend to be defensive and hostile while contact is on going, but only to the BH's face. Behind his back they are curious kitties.

I think it might be worth while to do the quizzes and stuff, sprinkle a bunch of positive notes in the margins, e.g. 'should I buy her more flowers?' 'Would WW like this?' And leave it out on the coffee table looking well thumbed, with a big pen hooked on to the front.

Since you've invited her to take a look it would be a very un-nosey lady who didn't at least check it out.

Then you could do the same with the print outs.

Slowly, slowly, catchee monkey.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/06/18 05:28 PM
I do have the book version with the quizzes. I also bought the book version of HNHN and Love Busters. I'll print out some of the quizzes/questionnaires to lay about as well.
When I got home yesterday she had been looking through them but tried to hide it. So positive I guess. She did want to spend sometime together last night and we stayed up late I did everything I could to make her laugh and listen to her bad day at work. It was an enjoyable night.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/06/18 05:38 PM
Yeah! laugh
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/06/18 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
.
When I got home yesterday she had been looking through them but tried to hide it. ht.

I know it's probably not funny to live with one but I do find WWs amusing sometimes!
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/15/18 07:31 PM
Things had fallen back into our regular routine for us which just felt out of place given everything she had been saying to me. I needed to distance myself as again my every thought has been caught up in this. We went out a couple times as i find just us sitting at home is a bit awkward at times. Even though we've been talking and getting along fine it's been on her terms and she's pulls away every time I start a conversation or the couple times tried to get close.
We went out last night but she was closed off and gave one word replies and she just wanted to go home the minute we left.
I thought it over this morning and though I feel I may have made a mistake I told her I can't keep doing this and limbo sucks, this has been the worst experience of my life. She can't keep coming and going as she pleases and only when it's convenient for her. She said that was fine as she's still not sure what she wants and it's a comfort thing at this point she just can't make a move either way.
I feel like I'm being taken advantage of she flip flops consistently and pushes me away. I don't want to end it but I don't want to feel like I'm being used.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/15/18 10:43 PM
What are you considering? Going into Plan B or straight up going for Plan D?

Or do you just feel yourself flagging and wanted to give her a heads up?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/16/18 12:49 AM
Originally Posted by indiegirl
What are you considering? Going into Plan B or straight up going for Plan D?

Or do you just feel yourself flagging and wanted to give her a heads up?

I had filled for Divorce just before finding this site/Dr Harleys books. Something she's been reminding me of.
Not sure if I should Plan B or keep working on it but I feel like I'm being strung along. She won't quit the job or let alone unfriend OM on FB or delete his number and she pushes me away when we get too "close" I'd like the marriage to work and build something better.
Most of this is probably just venting I'm probably doing the opposite of what I should. It's weird sleeping in the same bed, going out and spending time together, being a couple but not.
Again though not sure what to do or how to handle things moving forward.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/16/18 08:40 PM
Yeah it's tough when you're not sure but only you can decide! How about if you were to take a break and give yourself some self care while weighing the options?

The thing I tend to do is weigh up the worst case scenario against the best and make sure I'm cool with both.

How long would your divorce take to go ahead? Are you dragging it out or is it on a set timescale?

Originally Posted by CYk752
or let alone unfriend OM on FB or delete his number.

doh2

Well, you know, as long as the job is on the affair is on but sometimes B.S. get confused and tell themselves it's not 'really' on.

Nice of her to make it so unambiguous.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/17/18 12:30 AM
I think pulling back and taking a break would help me.
I actually need to contact my lawyer as I'm not sure in what stage of the divorce I'm in, papers have been filed and served to her, other than that haven't heard anything else.
I had told her we couldn't be sleeping in the same bed with how things are she said she was trying. I caved. She slept in the MB with me, we had a good enough morning until she told me to not get so emotional on what's going with us and just let things be. Kinda struck a nerve. She brought up how I exposed and how I've talked about it with friends/family. I brought up her not cutting all contact with OM she said some mean stuff I bit my tongue and walked away.
I feel like we're at an impasse. I need to change myself and how I interact with her but for what if she's not taking any steps? Or am I over looking what she's been doing? I know I can't expect her to jump in with both feet but what are the signs at this point that it's working?
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/17/18 04:13 PM
It depends what you mean by 'working'; neither Plan A or Plan B repair the marriage because they happen during an active affair. Affairs are toxic and nothing 'works' during an active affair. Because they are in an active affair, you're dealing with an entitled and callous soul like:


Originally Posted by CYk752
she told me to not get so emotional on what's going with us and just let things be.

Is she different, more empathetic and more committed when not in an affair? You would know better than us. If so, upon the (likely) death of the A, she will pay JC. If she's not, she won't.

The plans just basically put deadlines of two years max on your patience and help you to manage the limbo and set up positive possibilities while the affair falls apart. Which the vast, vast majority do. 95 per cent.

When the A does fall apart she may or may not be willing to sign up to recovery. Or leave her job. I would talk to your lawyer about timescales and costs and make a plan for both eventualities.

It will help you decide how much of a chance you're willing to offer her.

Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/18/18 09:08 PM
"Working" was the wrong word. We aren't at the stage to begin repairing the relationship. But getting her to end the affair and cut all contact, which she's now showing/telling me she won't do.
I would say she's always been empathetic in the past but who she is now I don't know this person.
I again told her she couldn't be sleeping in the MB with me and it's something she's fighting. We are back to not talking, or rather she doesn't respond to me.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/19/18 03:58 AM
I should add as it's something that's been driving me nuts and I didn't and still don't fully know how to respond. When it's brought up about her cutting all contact with OM her reply has been it's someone she cares for so why? For what purpose?
Granted my reply has always been for us to even begin repairing us, the relationship and all contact has to be gone.
I feel as though it's like talking to a brick wall. Any better way to phrase it to make her snap out of?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/19/18 11:35 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
I should add as it's something that's been driving me nuts and I didn't and still don't fully know how to respond. When it's brought up about her cutting all contact with OM her reply has been it's someone she cares for so why? For what purpose?

Because her affair hurts you so much.

Quote
Granted my reply has always been for us to even begin repairing us, the relationship and all contact has to be gone.
I feel as though it's like talking to a brick wall. Any better way to phrase it to make her snap out of?


You need to make plans to move on. You have been at this for some time and I don't think she has a philosophy of marriage that will support marriage. She is what Harley would call a freeloader.

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.

Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accommodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carpet, replacing the roof, and even doing some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/19/18 11:45 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
. When it's brought up about her cutting all contact with OM her reply has been it's someone she cares for so why?

I have to wonder how she would react if the answer became: "Because it's going to lose you a marriage". If you said time's up: me or him. A lot of the stuff she's been saying implies she would resent you placing any conditions upon her, she talks like someone who believes in unconditional love, just flit wherever the mood takes you.

A person who has that philosophy permanently can absolutely seem empathetic when in the right mood. It's not empathy you need but the ability to remain constant when times are tough. A buyer, like yourself.

Because you can't be married to someone who follows every mood wherever it takes them.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/19/18 02:37 PM
The other thing that you need to consider (I don't know if someone has brought this up yet) is that a WS has a lot of RADICAL changes they need to make -- they need to become open and honest and transparent, change their lifestyle and end opposite sex friendships. These are hard changes to make - there are no children to motivate her.

You are still young - I agree that you may want to start thinking hard about how long you want to keep fighting for this marriage.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/19/18 03:50 PM
Again thanks for the support. I should have checked here this morning before we talked.
Slhe's frustrated that we haven't discussed things openly yet and feels like I need to move past the affair for us to move forward. I did tell her again how much the affair hurt me and her not cutting contact hurts me. She feels like at some point I stopped recognizing her and she she stopped caring.
She did tell me. 'I'm here. I choose you. Not him, so what does it matter!' She went through her text/messages and call logs to show me when last contact was. And told me even if she blocked him and told him off she could look him up anyway but would he want her if she picked me. So again why is it an issue
I than gave her the ultimatum. 'Actions speak louder than words. You want me and our marriage prove it step up and show me. Otherwise we're done.' Probably not what I should have said, or the best way I could be handling everything but I feel a little better for saying it. I should reread parts of SA again.
She didn't say anything else and left. Great way to start the day.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/19/18 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
. 'Actions speak louder than words. You want me and our marriage prove it step up and show me. Otherwise we're done.' Probably not what I should have said,

No I think you nutshelled it perfectly.

She knows that she has to leave the job, and change her number entirely. She's seen a stellar free trial of what comes after that, which would be when you 'move forward' from your Plan A.

She's throwing a bunch of crumbs and a 'No big deal' attitude.

Sod that.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/19/18 04:41 PM
Good to hear. I made sure to say it in a calm way keep my old snapping in check. I've been holding back for fear of LB but I need to learn the line and I more often choose to not say anything.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/19/18 07:50 PM
If you feel you're close to lovebusting, then you should probably be considering Plan B at least.

There's only so long that anyone can Plan A for. Some people mistake the Taker for a bad guy but he only appears when your own interests have been neglected too long.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/19/18 10:22 PM
ive been considering Plan B I'm still not sure how to do it and I'm not sure if I'm really ready to yet. Maybe it's me still having hope? I feel terrible about throwing in the towel but given recent events I'm considering it more and more. I know I went no contact the first month or so and that was hell. I'm not sure I thought there would be some breakthrough or even a crack, it looked positive in the beginning but now who knows.
I wish she'd read the books.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/19/18 10:31 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
ive been considering Plan B I'm still not sure how to do it and I'm not sure if I'm really ready to yet. Maybe it's me still having hope? I feel terrible about throwing in the towel but given recent events I'm considering it more and more. I know I went no contact the first month or so and that was hell. I'm not sure I thought there would be some breakthrough or even a crack, it looked positive in the beginning but now who knows.
I wish she'd read the books.
Please remind me, did you write Dr. Harley?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/20/18 12:11 AM
I have not sent it in yet I'm not quite sure how to condense or really how to write to him. I don't want to fill a page or more.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/20/18 12:36 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
AI than gave her the ultimatum. 'Actions speak louder than words. You want me and our marriage prove it step up and show me. Otherwise we're done.' Probably not what I should have said, or the best way I could be handling everything but I feel a little better for saying it. I should reread parts of SA again.
She didn't say anything else and left. Great way to start the day..


That is exactly what should have been said. Your marriage is moving to divorce if she won't stop hurting you and end contact with her OM. That is just a fact. If she won't affair proof your marriage, you are looking at your future. I don't think you really want that.

I don't necessarily think you need to be in Plan B, but you need to accept she does not intend on repairing your marriage or doing anything to protect you from a future affair. I think you are wasting your time at this point and should start an exit plan. You are still young and don't have much to lose here.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/20/18 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by CYk752
I wish she'd read the books.


Most people don�t need to read a book to understand that adultery is painful and catastrophic. You don�t need to be an expert MBer to understand that you should thank your spouse on bended knee for any offered forgiveness and that deleting the guy�s number would be a no brainer.


The world is full of women who would totally get this without having to read a book!


Originally Posted by CYk752
I feel terrible about throwing in the towel but given recent events I'm considering it more and more. I know I went no contact the first month or so and that was hell.


If you don�t want to give up entirely, then Plan B allows her to contact you whenever she wants to get serious about conditions. But honestly, no one would blame you for moving straight to Plan D and being done. You�ve eliminated lovebusting and met her needs to the point she wants to be close to you every night. You have offered an amazing marriage to an unremorseful cheater. That�s not �throwing in the towel�.


The next step (whenever you are ready) is to make it clear with actions that you would rather be divorced than settle for less than an amazing marriage.


Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/20/18 06:31 PM
Cyk, my suggestion would be to stay in plan A but move forward with separation and divorce. I don�t envision she will ever get on board because she has a freeloaders approach to marriage. Because Of that, she will never have a stable marriage with anyone. Going forward with the divorce gives you more time to PLan A and by the time it is finalized you will know if there is any hope or not. If there is, you can drop the divorce and if not, you can divorce and get on with your life. That is a win/win.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/21/18 03:01 AM
indiegirl & MelodyLane- again thank you both for the support.

I know that I've played a part in getting to this stage with my marriage, neglect and loosing focus on her and what truly matters. I never in a million years ever thought either of us would cheat, she came from a divorced family similar situation oddly enough and she even stated she would never cheat or ever wanted to divorce.
So I'm surprised it happened, shocked and angry. When I first found out I wanted a divorce immediately, she wanted a seperation, which ultimately she got when we fought and I went no contact on her out of rage and anger.
It's true you never know what you'll do when you're in this situation and I surprisingly wanted to save my marriage. I thought things were looking up, as I've told her I don't care about the affair itself or the OM but why it happened what she's was missing, what she wants and needs. I've asked questions to gain knowledge of what to change, and given her ample opportunities to talk about anything. She's never given me an answer till the other day and just the one satement that she feels like forgot how amazing she is killed me.
I'm angry now and not sure how to handle myself at home with her I'm still killing her with kindness but can't bring myself to reach out to although that's all I want to do. I'm shocked that she doesn't see a problem with not cutting off contact with OM or really reaching out at all, I know I can't expect her to be jumping all over me or chasing after m, even though i would love it.
Still she won't leave the bedroom and I guess it's pride on my part that I shouldn't be the one who leaves. She's has been calling me the last couple days and even today on our way home. But at home it's silence.
If it doesn't change I can't stay with someone who doesn't put forth the effort or really show the empathy for the pain. Ten years is a long time Andres a lot of memories.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/21/18 06:11 AM
Originally Posted by CYk752
.

I know that I've played a part in getting to this stage with my marriage, neglect and loosing focus on her and what truly matters..

If she didn't have poor boundaries with men the affair would never have happened. She just would have told you that the long hours of your job were leading her to consider a separation and you would have cut it out. The end.

If you'd been home every night, she still would have had poor boundaries with men and affairs would still (are still) have been a possibility.

You are 50% responsible for the condition of the marriage, she is 100% for the affair.


Originally Posted by CYk752
, she came from a divorced family similar situation oddly enough and she even stated she would never cheat or ever wanted to divorce.
.

It's actually really common. My ex husband's father was wayward and the affairs were brushed under the rug. He said he hated his father and never wanted to become a cheater. But the little habits and attitudes are set in childhood.

Check this article out:

https://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_lesson.html

I went NC just before our tenth anniversary and I couldn't understand why someone wouldn't fight for ten good years. It was unbelievably painful and no cake walk but you do come out the other side much, much happier.

Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/21/18 06:12 AM
What is the timescale of your divorce and do you think you can Plan A?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/21/18 02:24 PM
By no means am I saying I'm responsible for the affair. That's fully on her. I know my part in our marriage issues and yes I should have changed sooner. I am by no means underplaying or leasing the affair as I still feel it's one of the worst thing to do to someone. There are no excuses for it.
Can I Plan A? Sure but for what purpose? If I feel like this and the feedback I'm getting is its not gonna happen for her, than to what end? I'm a decent person not an [censored] but I don't want to be walked over or taken for granted.
Do I have unconditional love, absolutely. Do I have faults, for sure. I'm trying to be the best that I can but I feel like I'm walking on eggshells with her.
I reached out to my lawyer but am still waiting to hear back on the timeline.
If she showed any real sign that she was still interested in me and the marriage I'd do whatever for her.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/21/18 10:18 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Can I Plan A? Sure but for what purpose? If I feel like this and the feedback I'm getting is its not gonna happen for her, than to what end? I'm a decent person not an [censored] but I don't want to be walked over or taken for granted.

There really is no purpose other than to treat her well while you are in the process of moving on.


Quote
I reached out to my lawyer but am still waiting to hear back on the timeline.

Good deal! I would also speak to her about your plans to move forward wtih the divorce.


Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/22/18 09:08 AM
I hear your concern that Plan A can be misconstrued as being a walk over. You might be overlooking the fact that a major part of Plan A is where you stand up for yourself. Saying that you believe in telling the truth and that cover ups of adultery are not ok.

Saying that you would rather be divorced than be a party to predictable adultery is a huge factor in Plan A. It's a noble stance and is actually very caring. As you already know it's a stance that has to be repeated and held firm to.

I think that once you know your timeline you'll know whether or not you will want to spend that amount of time in contact with your wife.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/22/18 12:29 PM
Cyk, I wrote a Plan B letter because I was afraid I was going to take my XH back before making the changes that would set us up for success. It sounds like you are getting to a point where you will not settle, but I think it may help you to write out a Plan B letter anyway even if you do not give it to her.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/25/18 11:14 AM
I�m so glad you called into the show! I�m halfway through so I didn�t hear the advice yet but I�m hoping it helped you find peace.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/25/18 03:56 PM
I did write in to the show and was very surprised not only did I hear back but was invited on.
It was hard to write down the relevant facts and issues and I'm sure I left out some important details but for the purpose of the radio broadcast it was great speaking with Dr Harley and Joyce!
The advice is to stick with Plan A for as long as possible and continue to be the best husband I can be. Also I'll be taking some time off work coordinated with WW to find a mutually agreeable solution, me finding a new job or a joint venture with her. Any thoughts on the show would be great!
We didn't speak over the weekend expect a hello and good bye but yesterday after she got home from work I engaged her in conversation, small talk to start but it kicked it off. She brought up that she wants to see someone about her mental health state as she's depressed and her mind is racing all the time. Made her tea and listened asking questions, being supportive.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 09/25/18 05:50 PM
That�s great! I am so glad you got their advice.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/24/18 02:32 AM
Here is your show Radio Show of CYK752

How are things going?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/24/18 02:46 PM
Been following the advice from Dr. Harley. Stepped up my game and being the best I can be. Took a couple days off of work for us to spend time together and have some more time off coming up.
Shortly after the radio show she expressed she wanted to see a therapist on her own and has been going to work on some of her issues and struggles she's been having, build up over the years of job stress, us and her affair.
About two weeks ago she told me she wants to try and work on us as she feels we've been in a very good spot lately and it seems it's getting better. She told me a couple days ago that at the recommendation of her therapist she contacted OM in the beginning of October to express some of the guilt and other issues that have come from the affair and she had the realization that he was not a good person or had his life together. She told him she wanted no more contact with him and wanted him to except and respect her choice. She said he blew her off and and wants nothing to do with her anyway.
Things have been good there's still a wall between us and some hesitation from her. I'm not 100% sure it's all true my trust is still gone but I'm trying to not be the pessimist.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/24/18 04:57 PM
This would be an excellent report but for the bit about her therapist. Such people should be banned from dealing with people that have had affairs. The advice to speak to OM to express guilt and "other issues" was like suggesting putting a match in a petrol can; the whole affair could have re-ignited and killed your marriage dead. I am absolutely horrified at that advice. The only recommendation should have been for her to write a no contact letter with the wording that Dr Harley advises, and for you to have sent it. Your wife is doing herself more harm than good by going to a therapist anyway, to rake up old issues and to rehash things that happened in her past. What she needs to focus on is practicing good behaviour in the present. I'm sure you've been warned how destructive individual therapy is to marriages, especially after an affair.

You need to monitor very closely to see that she wasn't lying to you about his rejecting her, or that she does not try again to get him to see something she thinks he hasn't understood properly. Any more contact between them will set you back to day one.

Did you know she had contacted him? Did your spying allow you to see that? How will you know if she does it again, or he contacts her?
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/25/18 02:32 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
This would be an excellent report but for the bit about her therapist. Such people should be banned from dealing with people that have had affairs. The advice to speak to OM to express guilt and "other issues" was like suggesting putting a match in a petrol can

Yes, that is insane! People fall in love with the people that they share their intimate feelings with. She doesn't need to confess her guilt to the other guilty person - she needs to confess it to her victim, if anyone. And as SugarCane said, what she really needs to do is practice good marriage building behavior in the present.

I would fire that therapist in a heartbeat. Yesterday. Last year.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/25/18 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She brought up that she wants to see someone about her mental health state as she's depressed and her mind is racing all the time.

Dr. Harley is a big fan of short term antidepressants, which can be prescribed by any regular doctor. (I asked my doctor to prescribe them for me in 2013 - good decision!) He also sometimes recommends anti-anxiety medication, which if I remember right can be taken as needed.

Your wife and your marriage and you would probably get a lot more benefit from her just going to a regular doctor and asking for antidepressants and anti-anxiety medications than going to a therapist who doesn't know that to fix a marriage you get the offender to care for the victim, and vice versa.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/25/18 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
About two weeks ago she told me she wants to try and work on us as she feels we've been in a very good spot lately and it seems it's getting better.

When she says that, take her on a date.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/25/18 07:00 PM
To say I'm not thrilled about the individual therapy let alone the recommendation to contact OM, is an understatement!
I had been happy with how things have been but contact from advice from her therapist have me uneasy. I think it was horrible advice and I have been pushing for Dr. Harley's no contact letter.
It would still be nice to get sorrow and guilt speech from her but I'm going to keep pushing forward.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/25/18 08:25 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
To say I'm not thrilled about the individual therapy let alone the recommendation to contact OM, is an understatement!
I had been happy with how things have been but contact from advice from her therapist have me uneasy. I think it was horrible advice and I have been pushing for Dr. Harley's no contact letter.
It would still be nice to get sorrow and guilt speech from her but I'm going to keep pushing forward.
What does she say when you ask her to send a NC letter?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/26/18 06:19 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
What does she say when you ask her to send a NC letter?

My last conversation which prompted me to write in, she didn't want to cut off all contact or block/delete OMs number was because it was someone she cared for and she didn't see the point in doing so. That nearly pushed me over the edge but I took Dr. Harley's advice, I can't help but have the feeling after she told me he blew her off that she was making an effort because the affair was falling apart and me the 2nd option.
Either way we've been spending more and more quality time together she's still stand offish at times, she has saying I love you, which makes me feel uneasy when she says it and I'm not sure why?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/26/18 07:05 PM
Did you answer my questions? I didn't see where:

Originally Posted by SugarCane
Did you know she had contacted him? Did your spying allow you to see that? How will you know if she does it again, or he contacts her?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/26/18 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Did you answer my questions? I didn't see where:

Originally Posted by SugarCane
Did you know she had contacted him? Did your spying allow you to see that? How will you know if she does it again, or he contacts her?

I hadn't been looking at all the spying, I need to stop being so consumed by it daily, but looked through everything after she told me and the last contact she had since I had posted previously about it was 2-3months I think? I'll need to look back.
I've told her in as many ways I can that if it starts back up we're done, I had also told her numerous times that if we were to make any steps in repairing us she had to cut all contact and her not wanting to "because it was someone she cared" for had me at the end.
I can have have unconditional love but I won't be taken advantage of or walked over.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/26/18 08:28 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Did you answer my questions? I didn't see where:

Originally Posted by SugarCane
Did you know she had contacted him? Did your spying allow you to see that? How will you know if she does it again, or he contacts her?

I hadn't been looking at all the spying, I need to stop being so consumed by it daily, but looked through everything after she told me and the last contact she had since I had posted previously about it was 2-3months I think? I'll need to look back.
I've told her in as many ways I can that if it starts back up we're done, I had also told her numerous times that if we were to make any steps in repairing us she had to cut all contact and her not wanting to "because it was someone she cared" for had me at the end.
I can have have unconditional love but I won't be taken advantage of or walked over.

This is probably answered up above in the thread, but how long are you going to continue with her before going into Plan B if she does not cut off contact with him?
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/26/18 09:08 PM
The advice from Dr. Harley was to just keep at it as long as possible and to make myself the better option. I think with her recent change of voicing wanting to work on the marriage if she does reestablish contact or the affair continues I'll have my answer.
Posted By: CYk752 Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/29/18 03:57 PM
One area that still has me in doubt about her wanting to work on us is her affection and intimacy. She'll cuddle up sitting on the couch or when sleeping, hold hands when we're out (briefly) will kiss me goodbye and say I love you when she leaves for work. But the couple of times I've moved to kiss her she pulls back or anytime I make a move to hug her. I find I'm in a hyper bonding mindset lately despite the fact I keep telling myself to hold back make sure it's real. She's been good about wanting to spend time together and we've been together every moment we're not working.
She brought it up the other night after our date, I went to kiss her and she pulled away. She said that she wasn't ready to have sex or be intimate and she wasn't sure why. She was hoping her therapist could help her.
Like I said everything's been going good but I have this nagging feeling. So with all that I'm not so sure the affair is over. I'm I crazy? Is this normal? I Haven't seen anything come up through spying.
Posted By: markos Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/30/18 01:26 PM
I would assume that this uncertainty on her part is going to continue for awhile. And every contact with the affair partner is going to set her back.
Posted By: indiegirl Re: I need help to save my marriage - 10/30/18 06:37 PM
Originally Posted by CYk752
She brought it up the other night after our date, I went to kiss her and she pulled away. She said that she wasn't ready to have sex or be intimate and she wasn't sure why. .

I would just reassure her that this is really normal amd natural and not allow it to be a focus. Love isnt created through sex, its the end result so it wont help you. Go nuts on the affection end of the spectrum where she is comfortable and where love grows slowly and naturally. Indeed her efforts to jump start her own engine with a therapist have nearly undone everything. Hack!

Besides it is normal and natural. Her main complaint re work hours is still unaddressed. She knows your main complaint is unaddressed too and also that she's not ready to address that complaint.

Women dont want sex when situations are up in the air and unsettled. Particularly a long running complaint and her most vocal worry. This is also clearly worsened by the fact she's in low grade contact with OM. She may want to want it, but thats not the same thing.

When a plan is place it will still take some time after that for her to relax. So i would not worry about end results like sexual desire before starting positions are found; i.e. jobs solutions and NC.

"You are more important to me than my career" is gold. Jobs conversations are where the real intimacy is at. Focus on having this conversation over and over, about solutions and plans and affection; and dont let her dwell on anything so beside the point as her current sex drive.

© Marriage Builders® Forums