Beware! This thread is meant in fun and is for informational purposes only. Please do not let it degenerate into D/D depravity!<P>In another thread, someone asked what do girls look at first on a guy, and I thought it might be educational for all you single guys out there to hear, directly from the horses mouth (so to speak), what girls look at first. Listen and learn.<P>I will start. On a purely physical level, I look at a guy's eyes first, because you can tell a lot about a person from their eyes. I look of gentle, happy, lively eyes--and this extends to the face too. Next I look at the (ahem) rear view. Hey, I'm being honest here! I prefer either a square, firm rear view or a round, perfectly formed rear view. <P>The thing I must tell all you poor fellas out there, though, is that I rarely just go "guy looking." Usually, I know a person a little--like joking around with him at work or something. Then I start to like him a little because he's fun. Then I check him out, after I already like him a little. <P>So girls, will you join me in educating these poor fellas who have no clue what makes us look? Send in your responses, keep it clean, and let's help these lonely gentleman. <P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

CJ,<P>I will help ya out and add to this. <P>I find that a great smile goes a long way!<BR>The eyes of course are another biggie.<P>But for me it is not so much even his looks,as it is his personality.<P>Having a great sence of humor and likes to have fun.That is the ticket for me.<P>Gina <P><P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

Okay, I will play on this one..... If it is a first sighting thing before I can get to know his personality, then the eyes are <B>ALWAYS</B> first!! I have always thought that you could see a persons heart and soul when looking into their eyes. You can see if they are kind or hateful. Things like that. After the eyes, the smile. I will admit that I prefer a man who takes care of himself. It is not that I would not like a person who was overweight, it is just that it shows that he has a respect for himself when he takes care of his body. I am not saying a workout guru or anything like that, but trying to eat decent and be able to do things like maybe take a walk in the mountains or something more energetic than that even.<P>I will admit though, that I have been finding it so much more exciting to get to know someone even before looks come into the picture. The personality is so much the turn on even before looks become involved.<P>Hope that helps.<P>~Java

So...let me get this straight...<P>How would...steel blue eyes that smile...a fairly desent bumm...kinda skrawny arms...and a certain quite shyness go over with yas??<P>It is nice to know that you won't be scoping my "package" <P><BR>Bill<p>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited January 12, 2001).]

Question for the guys now.... KNOWING that you guys will be reading this.... What do you look for in a woman?<p>[This message has been edited by JavaAllNightLong (edited January 12, 2001).]

I confess. I would be scoping the package if it was something I could make out in an easily concealable glance. Since men's "packages" aren't on display like women's breasts are (unless the guy lives in the gay community), we can only guess! Although, one sure indicator is a guy who wears trousers with no pleats and it is (ahem) flat in the front. Hey. I'm sneaky. All my professors are men. I get to check out the male students when they give presentations. The room is dark. I could be looking at almost anything, right? Don't worry, though. There aren't alot of buff male engineering students. <P>Of course, if I were looking for a partner (not just eye candy), none of that stuff would matter. Personality comes first. My first husband was a body-double for Dolph Lundgren (the Russian boxer on one of the "Rocky" movies) and his face looked like Billy Idol. Blonde, blue eyes. It is not too big of a surprise how he managed to get 20 women in his bed in a year. Women would take pictures of him in the grocery store and hit on him right in my face. So, gorgeous is OUT with me.<P>I'd prefer a guy who takes care of himself and a heart of gold anyday. Not that I'm looking. Just trying to help you guys!!

TheStudent, how SHOCKING!!<P>LOL LOL LOL

Just as long as he doesn't have a mouthful of skoal and doesn't go around with unpopped zits.<P>I think Billy Idol was a cutie, too. He needs to go to the gym, though.<P>Does anyone else think that kilts are sexy?

okay - I'll dance - I notice first how a man wears his clothes... (not his size or value) how he wears them... I like a guy who wears his clothing to fit well, comfy, with just a bit of room , and and I want him to be wearing HIS clothes - not them wearing him... if I'm really interested in a guy though - his clothes make NO difference whatsoever. My H wears the same kinds of clothes everyday, changes color but not style... and has for his entire life.

Ok... I'll play on this one too.<P>Physically, well, it depends on which direction I'm approaching from ... but the most important thing is the eyes. Then the smile. The best thing is if the eyes and smile work together. <P>Now, if I'm approaching from the rear, well, that's what get's my attention first. Especially if it's in wranglers.<P>Over all though, given the opportunity to explore the mind and get to know someone, that is by far the most attractive thing. <P>Ok, ok, I'll admit I've also been known to allow my gaze to roam below eye level from time to time too... but geezzz at least I don't talk to the belt buckle. <P>Flutterby

Well, that decides it. I'm definitely going to rent "Buns of Steel" <P>Seriously, you girls sound awfully easy to please. I was expecting something more difficult like maybe washboard abs or Brad Pitt looks. Whew, I may not have as much work to do as I thought <P>Now in answer Javas question. I like cute, in good physical condition and a warm smile. I really like it when I see a girl/woman/lady looking at me in the grocery store or wherever. I always try to smile, just to see if I get one back. <P>Absolutely nothing like the ones in Playboy, etc. If it looks like she spent all morning getting ready, I'm not interested.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

A girl not spend all morning getting ready? Gosh, and I just spent an hour putting on makeup, curling my hair and trying to find stockings without a run just so I can drop my car off at the mech's!!!! All for nothin!

Oh, that's how you do it. Now I know why my truck didn't pass inspection <P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Naw, I've never gotten a traffic ticket, either. Tears and running mascara work wonders--try it!!

1) Eyes. Esp. when they smile & twinkle.<BR>2) Smile. Love shy, boyish smiles & big grins both...<BR>3) Tie btwn shoulders & butt. Butt prob. wins, but by a narrow margin...<P>If the first 2 (eyse & smile) click, tho, I have a pretty wide range of acceptability for the bod.

Eyes and smiles, huh ladies? WooHoo! I've got those two wrapped up. Now if I just work on my bod a little, I should be the hottest 5'6" guy around <P>BTW, I try never to wear any clothes that would accentuate my <ahem> package. Some things are best left to the imagination!<P>Come on Spring, Jayhawk needs to ride the bike!<P>And in answer to Java's question, I look at all parts of a woman, but I am a sucker for beautiful eyes and long hair.<P>cOOker, I know what you mean about the eye-candy. Women like that look great, but it comes with a price. Trust me on this one, I know it all too well! <p>[This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited January 13, 2001).]

Jayhawk,<P>Don't tell me you're one of those fair weather only cyclists Seriously, you might want to look at a trainer. On days that it's below 40, I ride the trainer & watch the news. Kind of boring, but at least it keeps me spinning.<P>I like beautiful women and all, but I'm not interested in any high maintenance girl. Besides, the gorgeous ones probably don't notice me anyway. I want a girl who works hard, plays harder and doesn't mind getting dirty or coming back from a vacation slightly injured once in awhile <P>OK, now here's a question. Where do all these available, longing women hang out? I've been told the grocery store and the coffee shop at Barnes & Noble, but I was wondering just exactly where the <ahem> target rich environment is. And then once deployed to that particular theater of operations, what signs do you make to show that you find a guy attractive or interesting. From a purely academic perspective, of course <P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Well as far as Java's question...<P>I will readily admitt to enjoying the eye candy aspect of lovely women...<P>As far as a particular size...well let's just say my eye is drawn to a nice figure...<P>I like the granola type girl...ya know...wholesome...minimal make-up...looks like she isn't affraid to get her hair wet...<P>I look at lips first...then eyes...body size isn't too awfully important...hair style doesn't matter either...<P>It is all about attitude in their looks...<P>I like to look at all sorts of girls...<P>Remember the oldies song..I'm A Girl Watcher...I can be guilty as charged at times...<P>However, if I'm with my special lady, my attention is on her... <P>Bill

I'm so upset. I had several good posts yesterday - had to go to the office to work on my references for my interview. Had to see what was going on here. Anyway the computer was in the retarded mode and wouldn't take my posts. Took too long to transmit and they went to nowhere land.<P>What I Look For When Initially Looking At A Man<P> By Princess Cinderella<P>Eyes are very important. Not being interested in 25-y-o men any more, I like a few laugh lines. Not Crevices. But nice lines. If you reach 30-35 they're already showing up. You know those lines right at the outer corner of the eyes. If you don't have them, you don't smile enough.<P>Next, smile. Must have a nice smile. Important in this is occlusion and alignment of the teeth. Crooked teeth are a turn off for me because I needed braces so badly and didn't get them till I was 16. Then they could fix my teeth cosmetically but I had a structural problem with my mouth. A vertically open bite - not an overbite or underbite. Took braces and maxillofacial surgery as an adult to fix. (I should have known guy I dated last summer wasn't the one. His teeth were way too crooked.) Folks, poor alignment of your teeth can become an oral health problem If you can't get to them to clean them, they won't last as long. If you can find a way to do braces and you need them, do it. Don't think you are too old. (No, I do not work in the dental field.)<P>Next, the overall body. Don't want the Sta-Puf marshmallow man and don't want Mr. Universe. Want a guy with moderate to nice body. Too buffed and they know they look good. Too plump is too plump. A body which shows normal maturation is ok. Let's face it, we all know where men carry their weight. Well, I can handle some maturation but no Dunlap Disease (where the belly laps over the belt) or Furniture Disease (where the chest falls down into the drawers). This is only fair as I don't have Calista Flockhart's hips and thighs.<P>Next, posture. Your posture says a lot about your self-image. (X is prime example of how to convey negative self-image.) Guys, this affects how your clothes look on you and it affects how fat we think you are. Do you want to wad yourslf up? X didn't look good in most of his clothes because he didn't stand straight - well, he probably didn't look so good out of his clothes but he didn't give me many chances to observe this. Had a blind date over the summer and when I arrived, I saw the likely candidate from 1/2 block away. I thought "Please don't let that be him." but it was. I think it was a posture thing. Had on nice clothes but didn't wear them well because he slouched. Had a miserable time. Didn't hear from him but once after that. Thankfully no more date requests.<P>Now, those are the 4 initial things that will turn me off or on. Height, hair color (except red like x), eye color, that stuff doesn't matter. For me it boils down to:<P>eyes<BR>smile (including teeth)<BR>reasonable body<BR>posture <P><BR> The End<BR>

A couple of questions first: 1. How does a guy wear clothes verse them wearing him? 2. Why don't women approach men?<P>Otherwise it is nice to know that a guy doesn't have to be 6"2" blonde and blue eyed and 195. <P>Although how does one show personality when you don't even have time to meet women?<P>Of course, my ex says I don't have a personality! Maybe we found the problem!<P>

Why women don't approach men...<P>a) They aren't used to being assertive. Women are taught that being assertive is a turn-off, b*tchy, etc.<P>b) They don't want the guy to think they are "easy". An assertive woman is also (usually) considered a sl*t. <P>c) They are afraid of rejection. Women aren't raised to deal with that kind of rejection from a young age, like men are.

I need to jump in...I would say that I am an eye person, but I also like a well groomed man, short hair, well taken care of...no hair on the neck ick! Height, eye and hair color do not matter to me...but I really like a man that takes care of himself...and I would also have to say hands and arms...love a man with strong hands and arms (but definitely not body builder strong...)

Just once if a woman (not married)would say hey would you like to go to dinner and movie with me. I had a couple of married women ask me what a turn off!<P>So did women's lib occur or was that just a night mare I experienced in the 70's - 80's. I believe in equal rights but when in Graduate School was beat up by women for opening doors for them. Maybe they were radicals!<P>It seems we take what benefits us or is easy and don't do the rest. We will only true have equality when both groups can preform all tasks!<P>I will probably be in trouble for my comments but I believe women are very capable and actually better at certain things then men and vise versa.<P>I like the differences and hope they always remain!<BR>

Heck, yes, rejection! It's the same for girls as it is for guys.<P>I am pretty shy, but when I was dating, if I really liked a guy, I would definately let him know--or I thought that I did. Okay, I wouldn't just walk up and say "Hey, baby!" (Like I have some geeky guys do to me!) But I would bake him a plate of cookies, ask him out to lunch (and I had no problem ever paying for a date if I asked!)or I'd try to do any kind of favor for him--meaning at work, I would help him out, or in class, ask him if he would like to study with me. (I am thinking about when I met my husband--he is really shy and I practically chased him, meaning that whenever I saw him alone, I was right there to talk to him.)<P>Or is that too subtle?<P>If, after that, he doesn't show any particular interest in me, I drop it and figure we are "just friends."

Interesting. I would love to have a woman ask me out.. <P>Holy Moly. I just went down to the caffateria to get a snack for lunch (5 minutes ago)and this woman that has been looking at me for the last couple of months noticed that I had a tag hanging out from the back of my sweater. She came up behind me and tucked it back in and I said thanks alot, I hate tags like this. She left and I continued to stand in line to check out and out of nowhere here comes this woman with what looked like a two foot long pair of very sharp, very pointy scissors. Walks right up to me from a the rear and graps the tag puts the scissors up and cuts that tag right off my sweater. <P>I didn't have to ask, I don't even know this ladies name.. I tought it very nice of her because you have no idea how much I hate clothing tags that rub me or stick out. Scared the cr*p out of me at first. But I thought it nice, afterwards. <P>And I will always open doors for woman. They seem to enjoy it.. <P>

Well I'm a lost cause right now, I have very sad and hateful eyes, too much resentment. Maybe once I let it go. Other than that... I'm good to go, I think...<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Ok.... I'm gonna ad one thing to my list....<P>Maners! A guy with no or bad maners is a turn off. <P>I guess I was raised a little old fashioned... I love for guys to open doors for me, hold my chair, help me with my coat... these things make my knees weak . <P>I was recently talking to a guy friend (who I find attractive & interesting)... he told me that some guys just don't get subtle hints. I said, so you mean you need to be hit over the head with a 2x4?? He said... yeah, basically that's it. Well, I've never asked a guy out for a first date before, but I sent him an email today.... the subject was "2x4" and asked him if he'd like to go to dinner & a movie on Saturday. <P>Guys.... what do you think... will he get the hint??<P>Smooches,<BR>Busty<BR>

Oh.... Just for anyone who might be wondering.... I told him to pick the resturant and <B>I'd pick the Movie! </B>

I got a chuckle out of a few of these responses <P>I am what many people would consider a feminist. I have nothing against a man opening a door for me. I always smile and say thank you, and don't consider it a put-down or that they think I'm weak (and if they do, I'd be happy to show them my rock-solid biceps ). <P>Depending on who gets to the door first, or what they are carrying, I will hold the door for anyone. I also think it is polite to at least unlock (and even open) the car door for your passenger first (man or woman). I always pay for myself, no matter who asked, unless he insists. If women expect equal pay, then they can expect to pay half the bill(s) too.

Okay, I thought that I would throw in my two cents worth again since it is getting to the topic of manners and ettiquite.....<P>I readily admit that I am a tom boy. Although I find it charming for a man to open a door for me, I also return the favor. If I ask a man out on a date (friendship or romantic) and I am the one asking, then I am the one paying.... case closed. Also in the terms of friendship, if I go to lunch with a male friend regularly and we get one bill for the meal, I will try to keep it fair with me being allowed the honor (yes, it is an honor) to pay for the meal and treat my friend to a hopefully enjoyable meal. If I am driving I will open the door for my guest first, if I am a passenger and they open the door for me I will lean over and open his door from the inside. I am all for being taken out and spoiled, just as long as the guy is also equally prepared to let me do the same to him.<P>Have I actually asked someone out on a date... in the past 10 years or so, not as anything more than friends or with purely a friendly intent. Prior to the past 10 years, yes. And I really feel for the guys on this one since they are usually the ones doing the asking of us women. It is truly nerve racking!

Stop It Java.. ;-) Your kill'in me.. <P>I only have a problem with one thing. If your driving I wouldn't want you to open my door. If it was a mechanical problem (Look at this, I used the word mechanical twice, no three time tonite.) Ok. Like you had to hold the door a certain way for it to open or something, But I want to get into the car second.. Absolutly perfect on everything else.<P>Here is something else I like and that is vocabulary. I know I can't spell worth a tinkers hammer but I like it when I have a conversation were real words are used.. You know the ones greater than 4 letters.. I like long dinners with nice conversation. Nonconfrontational talk, I like to listen and learn. Watch. Smile. etc.

Enough for the outward traits; the beauty of outward traits is relative. And most anyone can MAKE himself attractive to someone else.<P>But some of the personality traits that I like in a guy?<P>Okay, to start--<P>He's got to be smart. I don't mean that he can speak in Latin, thoroughly understands quantum physics, and can accurately forcast the worldwide ecconomic situation for the next 5 years. But, if a guy picks up a history book now and again, can wisely select the politician he would like to represent him, and help with the kid's homework--that's impressive to me.<P>Speaking of kids--don't you think it's cute when guys play with little kids? Nothing is sweeter than listening to little kids giggling and wrasslin with their daddy. A guy that is humble enough to play a couple of rounds of candyland and let the kid win is cool in my book. (I actually talked the husband into lowering himself to play candyland with my 4 year old son once--it was tough, but he finally begrudgingly gave in. Then he actually decided it was fun after a while. . .sheesh!) And guys--have you ever played Barbie with your little girl?-change gowns, comb hair, sip from empty miniature t-cups, all the while carrying on a simpering dialogue? Well, OK, I admit that's too much for even me sometimes. Never did dig Barbie too much. (I had a Johnny West doll. And an Evil Knieval complete with motorcycle.)<P>Oh, speaking of humility now. . .nothing is a bigger turn-off than a guy, ESPECIALLY a cute guy, with an arogant, God's-gift-to-the-world look on his face. UGH! Sometimes you can read it all over him what he thinks of himself when he climbs out of that shiny hotrod with lookin all snobbish. And if he knows everything. . .who cares? Nobody likes to hang with someone who can one-up on trivia facts. Humility means that you are teachable, and you care about what others think--about other's feelings, not about yourself.<P>I like a guy that who has a pet, who likes animals and treats them well. Someone who is mean to animals is mean to anyone. Not saying he has to endure that cat on the kitchen table, but it says a lot about a fellow if he is kind to everyone--even the least of these. (My husband hated my cat--I mean, I fed her, disciplined her and changed her litterbox, he had nothing to do with her except live in the same house with her. But it caused him great mental agony to do that.) I think it is so sweet to see a guy devoted to his pets.<P>I kind of like the look of a workin man. A suit is cool, but coming from a fairly rural community, I think it's sexy to see a guy come down to the corner coffee shop wearing irrigation boots, bits of hay stuck to his coat, maybe a little grease on his calloused hands. Alright, call me weird, I guess. That's just my world. But I like a guy who shows he's a good worker by how he acts. . .turns me on!<P>Okay, that's just a few. . .

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hurtinginOmaha:<BR>[B]A couple of questions first: 1. How does a guy wear clothes verse them wearing him? <BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<P>This generally constitutes attitude and posture. <P>I meet a lot of business men in expensive suits who would look a lot classier in dockers and poloshirts, because the business suits were just not 'them'... And, from out here in the sticks just west of HELL, I see a lot of vacationing city slickers trying to wear jeans and wetern shirts who just look like a 'cityslicker in a cowboy uniform'... <P>Guys, you just gotta be who you are!!! <P>We love ya, just the way you are... maybe not all of us love all of you - but, you get the picture!

First, let me say thanks to all the brave ladies who responded. Thanks for keeping it clean and helping the guys out.<P>Next,let me say that, yup, we really are not that difficult to please. Like you'all mentioned, a stunningly beautiful person is a pleasure to behold, but the maintanence required is too high a price. I'd MUCH rather have a real guy, who has basically handsome, but who was confident, funny, strong, and sexy. So, you guys out there remember: EYES, SMILE, (personal preference, such as behind, well-dressed, etc.). BTW, on a personal note, yes, Jayhawk you have the eyes and the smile sewn up! <P>Now, we have several questions on the table:<BR>1) Where do the women hang out?<BR>2) Who asks who out?<BR>3) What inner qualities are attractive?<BR>So here are my answers:<BR>1) Good women hang out everywhere, except at singles' bars! You know what those women are there for (haha). For some ideas, I'd go to recreation centers, libraries, bookstores, local musical events (i.e., a band you like, an orchestra, or a performance). In addition, I'd pick something you REALLY enjoy doing on your own, and join a group that also enjoys doing that. Thus, you're likely to meet a woman who enjoys something you do!<P>2)Since it is the new millenium, I think both men and women should ask each other out. I can honestly say that I do not wait around and expect a man to ask me out, so I think that "rule" is starting to be old fashioned. Either way, one party or the other is going to have to take a risk and stick their neck out there and risk rejection, so, if there were someone I liked, I wouldn't hesitate to ask him out. What the heck--the worst he could say is "No"!<P>3) I think there are lots of threads out there about the inner qualities that are attractive. But, to summarize, here are my basics: a personality compatible with my INFP; intelligence equal to or exceeding my own; a very hard worker; and a high sex drive (sorry, but if I get to pick next time, it WON'T be once every month!). The very necessary qualities that I look for are trustworthy (guess what--I have a little issue there!); funny, funny, funny; soft and gentle; know my limits and protect me; and want to continue to learn and grow.<P>Well, excellent questions, guys!<P><BR>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Interesting stuff, I have been experimenting with the clothes thing. I used to wear only business suits (was told I looked good)but really did not always feel comfortable.<P>I now wear lots of Dockers and sports shirts to work wow I like but still wear the occassional suit!<P>Actually prefer jeans and sweat shirt or shorts and golf shirt/tee shirt. In fact, I want to mow grass at a golf course when I semi-retire. <P>Manners are very important and I open doors for all people. I also try to pay attention to the needs of the elderly as I will be there some day! As for pets (dog, two cats and a Russian Tortoise) of course when all is said and bone it will get the tortoise and the cat (Cleo).<P>This is a fun topic and it is nice to play! Now if I could just find a play mate or two!

I, personally, hang out at the bookstore, library (I may need to change branches though - in 8 years of going to the same branch, I've not met anyone that I can think of). Don't forget the grocery store. We all go there. <P>Be nice to everyone. You never know...<P>Who knows if I land the job, and get to spend time in the clinic....... <P>I've decided that this may not be the time for me to meet the next someone important. I still have some big things to work on and maybe I need to deal with that first.<P>

Inner qualities??? You mean that there is something more to a man than just looks??? (KIDDING!!!!!!!! don't you guys start jumping my case for that comment, it is a joke!!!)<P>I guess the first thing I should then list is a sense of humor.... someone who can laugh at himself. <P>Honesty. Non judgemental towards me. Patient. Kind. Loving. Supportive. Humble. Shares his true thoughts and feelings, doesn't hide them. An openness to hear my thoughts and feelings. A good communicator, not just a speaker, and not just a listener. Someone who I can have a conversation with. Fun. Will play with my son. Someone not afraid to work for what he wants. Someone with goals (even if he isn't sure what all the goals are, but knows that he wants to strive for something). Not afraid of change. Not afraid of the future. Realizes that he can't change the past but can only learn from it. Those are the main ones that come to mind right now. I know that there are more, but they just aren't coming to me.... oh one more.... <B>Slightly goofy.</B><P>I will agree whole heartedly with Bernzini in regards to seeing a man who is good with children. I have a 6 year old.... There is no greater pleasure for me than seeing someone play, talk, or just hang out with him. Seeing the looks on both of their faces is just amazing! Someone who takes the time to spend with a child is a wonderful person!<P>Tex... why do you insist on getting into the car second? Afraid that it might be jury riged with some kind of a trap??? I guess that we could work out some form of a mutual agreement to satisfy both of our specific wants.... If you were my guest and I was driving, I would still unlock your door and open it for you.... it would be your choice on if you would get in before or after me. How would that be? <P>~Java

Places to Meet Girls--Just Suggestions:<P>The gym, that's where I always hung out (meaning, I need to hang out there more these days, but my friggin schedule!!) Would you be too cool to spot me? ( I have always had trouble with bi's and shoulders.) If I am on the brink of "hurting myself" would you take my elbows in consideration enough to come over and show me the "proper way?" (I think it's so sweet when guys do that!) Don't you think that a girl who takes care of her body is disciplined, dedicated, and self-confident?<P>Maybe if you're a single dad you'd like to meet a single mom--Chucky Cheese or the playground at McDonald's is a good place to go once in a while. Hey, we all hate to cook after working a full shift, picking up kids from daycare, running errands, then realizing that there is no food in the cupboard anyway because there is no time to shop. I hate McDonald's food, but the 1 hour of peace and quiet that I get letting my kid burn off stored energy, screaming in the ballpit is worth it. Good time to share a cup of java and sympathize with another single parent.<P>Don't forget at work (where many affairs start as well! Grrrrr!) A bit of personal trivia, kind of funny: I had one month before my 2nd year of college, needed some of those great 80's style clothes, but no time to get a real job. So I went to work in the corn fields for a couple of weeks. Here I was, covered from head to toe in mud, wearing old army fatigues, I started talking to the cute guy a row over. We tassled corn and talked all day. Got to the end of the field and he tripped me into the ditch as a joke. He said "I had to see what you looked like under all that mud, because I was hoping you'd go out with me tonight." Hee hee. My first real boyfriend, he became. Ah, youth!<P>Church--forget it. They are all happily married except for me at my church. (They think that I'M cool, though.) But if your congregation has a singles activity group, Parents without Partners, or anything like that, take advantage.<P>I guess these are places where nice girls hang out. Not saying that nice girls don't go to the club, but really, do you want to spend all the time and heartache weeding out psychos to find Miss Right?<P>Remember the song "A pretty face don't mean no pretty heart." Well, at the club, pretty faces are a dime a dozen. At some of the places I mentioned, you can get into a conversation that has nothing to do with "can I buy you a drink" and "do you like this song--wanna dance?" but you can get to know someone right away by what they do and how they conduct themselves in everyday life, not putting on a show.

Java.<P>I think it comes from my upbringing.. I have no Idea. I Just think its conciderate of a man to get into the car second or more over, after all of the ladies are in the car/truck if there is more than one like going to lunch with the ladies in my office.... If they are getting into the back seat I will always offer a hand to lean on as they get in or out of the my truck... Little stuff.. <P>I will say this after having a longggggg thought about what you would do I think I could get in the car first after the 5th or 6th date,, Ok maybe the 7th. Aditionally it would probably take a good, talkin to.. Sommething like ' Give it up Tex, Get over the polite stuff its just me.' HeHeHe ;-) But I could do it.. <P>I think its part of being a man.. I'm not a pig or anything like that. I just like being polite almost to a fault.. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Don't you think that a girl who takes care of her body is disciplined, dedicated, and self-confident? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My X does, just like that, and she is obsessive-compulsive. Hung up big time on body and looks. she looks great, but her self image is warped by whether she has gone to the gymn or not.<P>there's always two sides to each story.<P>tom<P>

Oh, yeah, Tom, I can definately sympathize with your point of view;<P>My wedding day--we get done with the ceremony, eat, go back to the little cottage we rented for the night. The Prince of Darkness throws on his PT sweats and says "I'm going to the gym for a couple hours, maybe a run. Have fun, see you later."<P>Sigh!! Well, I did marry a Marine, but that's kinda taking it too far. Nevertheless, I said nothing. He kept telling me that if he wasn't muscle-bound that I probably wouldn't love him, so there. . .<P>As for me--you would not think that I was an obsessive-compulsive person when it came to fitness if you saw me. I am one of those people who can eat a pickle and gain 10 pounds--it's a must, and I just happen to enjoy it. I am too squirrley to sit too long. And it became a way of life in my own military service--I was the only female soldier in the platoon to get the crew serve weapon--cuz I could carry it. I beat my entire company in on a 12-mile hump once--I had the radio ruck, too, and I could throw a hex-net over my shoulder and on top the truck, thanks to my lunchtime workouts. (I'm bragging now)<P>I can certainly see your point, though!!

Sorry for the delay Tex....<P>I have no problems with a man being polite, but there is also that point where..... well, for me it could get to the annoying point. I am trying to put it as bluntly as possible, no offense intended. As a friend of mine keeps telling me, sometimes it is just better when you suck it up, politly say thank you, and accept it for what it is, and always be gracious.<P>Okay, so you are polite, what some might consider to be old fashioned. I am polite too although not really old fashioned. I would accept you for who you are, I would hope that you would do the same for me. And if this whole little door thing became an issue for you, well then, I guess you could just drive all the time.

I have a real superficial thing that I notice. Where, around his body, the waistband of a man's pants sits. Don't like the pants too high around the body - reminds me of a nerd. Don't like them too low. I can't define the right spot. There are more rooms at the Holiday Inn-Brentwood in case any men would like to come and have the position of their waistband examined.<P>I joke a bit.<P>But I do have this thing about waistbands. <P>And there are still rooms at the hotel.<P>And we need more men.

hmmm, I've always wondered about that <P>Is there a scientific approach to getting the waistband properly located? I always thought a sweatshirt was the ultimate solution to that <P>Now I have one more thing to worry about <P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Okay, I've been around my stbx and his buddies for too long. Men still open car doors for women? My stbx liked my "self-sufficiency." To him that meant he didn't need to go out of his way - I could just do whatever myself...<P>To a point, I agree. I'm not a frilly girly girl who has to be pampered and protected all the time. I like working on my house, can use power tools like a good construction worker, and have mucked concrete in my lifetime...but, it's nice to feel like your man WANTS to pamper you...at least some of the time.<P>Come on guys...just read our minds so you know when you should and when you shouldn't. That's not too much to ask, is it? <P>Lisa

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JavaAllNightLong:<BR><B>Sorry for the delay Tex....<P>I have no problems with a man being polite, but there is also that point where..... well, for me it could get to the annoying point. I am trying to put it as bluntly as possible, no offense intended. As a friend of mine keeps telling me, sometimes it is just better when you suck it up, politly say thank you, and accept it for what it is, and always be gracious.<P>Okay, so you are polite, what some might consider to be old fashioned. I am polite too although not really old fashioned. I would accept you for who you are, I would hope that you would do the same for me. And if this whole little door thing became an issue for you, well then, I guess you could just drive all the time. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Java:<BR>First and formost I can eazily call this one a draw.. ;-) And I think I like your way better.. <P>Or you could give that STOP IT look. You know that look that ALL woman have. HeHEHe.. That stop it look. I crack myself up.. LOL.. No flames please..

The "stop it look"? I have NO idea on what you are talking about Tex! (yeah right, and if you believe that I've got this bridge to sell you.... well nevermind) Okay, we are agreed upon the draw. But I will prewarn you, my "stop it look" will scare you!!!<P>I will agree with soon2b_alone in that it is It is quite a nice feeling that the man that you are with does WANT to papmer you. But there are other ways then the whole door issue.<P>Nick- you know the right spot on the jeans.... not low enough to see your underware, not high enough to where they touch your ribs. But right at the waistline, top of the hip bone area. I am sure that you will be just fine in that department so please don't fret!<P><B>Question for the guys here:</B><BR>Do you MEN feel intimidated by a woman that can weild a tool on her own? What I am getting at here is this, I fix my own car when I have the time, I am the one that would switch the AC/heater every year (and no, my idea of switching it was not calling someone to come do it for me), I have installed celing fans in my house, torn apart my pipes to clear a clog, general things like that.... not girly stuff by any means. Do you find it as something that is "man's work" or would you be perfectly comfortable with it? Now- be honest here.<p>[This message has been edited by JavaAllNightLong (edited January 17, 2001).]

Tex,<P>What do you MEAN that "STOP IT" look? I don't know WHAT you mean. Now, stop posting to me in that tone of voice (flashing "Stop It" look--eyes throwing daggers). <P>Heehee. <P>I never have PMS, either. And if you believe that--I have a bridge in New York that I'd like to sell you!<P>You guys, take some of this politeness discussion over to the "After D Dating Etiquette" thread--it's pretty relevant.<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

OK, right on top of the hip bones. That's where they normally fit on me (if I cinch my belt all the way up now )<P>I would love to have someone mechanically inclined. I work on my cars and bikes and the house as much as I can, but it sure would be nice to have someone to help.<P>As far as being girly, I would like someone who can go from sexy lingire to coveralls and back in the span of the day. Someone who is as at home in at a play as she is blasting her bike through a mudhole. Someone who likes hamburgers as much as haute cuisine.<P>Now, I just have to find one of those <P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

I made a list a while back for kicks: what I am not looking for:<BR>I won't date<BR>1) anyone who wears camoflage (sp?)<BR>2) anyone who hates dogs (or has allergies)<BR>3) anyone who drives a truck with wheels higher than my car<BR>4) anyone who doesn't own a belt<BR>5) a bag boy, burger flipper, or anyone "creatively unemployed" (ie, welfare)<BR>6)anyone who has kids my age<BR>7) anyone who sticks stupid vanity stickers on the front windshield of his car ("bling bling", "i'm da man," etc.)<P>I keep adding daily. <BR>

Heck no. I not intimidated in the least. <P>I guess my question is 'How are ya with a post hole digger?' I need some help putting a new fence up in my back yard. I'll provide the beer.. ;-)

Ok, I'm gonna take a stab at it. <P>Physically - I look at eyes first. They say a lot about a person. I like strong arms and hands too but I don't like the Mr. Universe look. I tend to like dark hair and brown eyes, but that's really pretty minor. I also don't like really tall guys. I am only 5'2" so I don't want someone to tower over me. My ex-H was 5'6". <P>Personality - Someone who's intelligent but NOT a know it all. A good sense of humor is a must. Someone who enjoys talking, good movies, good music, and laughter. <P>I tend to like the more casual look. A pair of faded jeans and a T-shirt is nice. But I also want someone who can dress up when they need to. <P>I like being treated like a lady too. Not overly so, but having your car door opened is nice. Just little touches. <P>BTW, Tex...I need a fence put up in my backyard too. You bring the post-hole diggers and I'll supply the beer at my house!<P>c00ker...you're a riot!<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by c00ker:<BR><B><BR>I would love to have someone mechanically inclined. I work on my cars and bikes and the house as much as I can, but it sure would be nice to have someone to help.<P>As far as being girly, I would like someone who can go from sexy lingire to coveralls and back in the span of the day. <P><BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>c00ker,<P>I think you meant you wanted a woman who wore her sexy lingerie UNDER the coveralls...a little lace peaking out from the sawdust covered neckline?????<P>Puts home repair in a whole new light, doesn't it? <P>Lisa<P>

Java,<P>although I never worked with a female, I used to work on oil tankers and went to a military academy for it. Girls were recently accepted in the late 70's, and about half of them were engineers.<P>I have never worked on a ship with a female engineer, but they exists in droves where I used to work, and they even have made it to the top of the engineering ladder. Some of my female class mates are ones.<P>One of the women who lived down the hall from me is the first women to be a San Francisco Bay pilot, bringing in all the large ships from the ocean to the dock.<P>Nothing wrong with them. The only difference between the sexes on the ship was that females had less physical strength than guys. It takes a secure male to allow females into the traditionally male environment.<P>tom <P>

Java,<P>Having a woman around that knows a thing or two about tools and household repairs would be great. Personally, between my house, my sister's house and my mother's house, I could use the help!!!! I would also like to get into the business of buying properties, fixing them and either selling them for a profit or renting them out for some residual income. In doing so, having a partner around that can do more than just pick out pretty colors would be a lot of fun, especially during the repair stage. Someone to get sweaty with and then to get clean with......<P>Ooops, I almost forgot which thread I was on

keridwen, <P>Me, a riot? Nah, just a minor distrurbance. I do however have very electic interests, so I either have to find someone like me (that'll be a chore) or someone at least as adventurous to share activities with. It just wouldn't be a vacation without the waiver of liability <P>Soon2b....<P>hmmm sawdust and lace? Sounds like an interesting combination. It would make for a much more enjoyable episode of Home Time or the New Yankee Workshop <P>But seriously, I really need to be with someone who has very diverse interests, but I'd also like to find someone to teach me to appreciate some other activities. I'm pretty much game for everything but skydiving. No reason to jump out of a perfectly good airplane <P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Oh come on Nick, where is your sense of adventure? <P>I've always wanted to go skydiving, but have not made it yet. Better to jump from a plane with a parachute then to be dangling from a bridge on a rubber band!

No skydiving or bungie jumping for me...hurtling myself out into open space just to prove gravity works doesn't seem like a good idea...I believe Newton...no need to test his theories.<P>BUT, as my counselor told me, I need to make stbx's loss (I'm not sure he realizes he lost anything, but I digress...) into my gain. So, I am going to use the weeks in the summer that I don't have my kids to do things that challenge me to be brave, strong, and confidence building...sort of a divorce Vision Quest.<P>Adventure #1:I am planning to go white water rafting in Idaho on a 3 day trip...camping out in the boonies...nature's restrooms...clinging to a rock if I get tossed by a wave...etc. I've never done it before but it always looked like so much fun...now, if I can just find out which week had the most single men scheduled.... <P>Adventure #2: Sailing (warm water area - Hawaii? Mexico? California?...not sure how I'll make this one happen, but when I was on vacation in Hawaii two summers ago...we went sailing twice. I absolutely loved it. So, I'm going to find a way to make it happen.<P>Adventure #3: Travel some place I've always wanted to go but stbx never did - finances to be considered of course. New Orleans, New York City, the Florida Keys, the Carribean, Australia, Europe, etc. All stbx ever wanted to do was go camping or to Las Vegas to gamble...BORING! I want sunshine (my Washington State rainy mildew needs to dry out)!<P>Beyond that?? Who knows!<P>and c00ker, next time I'm hanging drywall wearing my lingerie under my overalls...I'll be sure and think of you . Of course the only one who'll ever see the lingerie now will be the cat...and frankly, it could care less. <P>Lisa<BR>

Jayhawk, I'll have to add bungee jumping to my list to pass on as well Same for alligator wrestling...<P>Lisa, adventure #1 is a hoot, but I couldn't tell you which ones have the most single guys Adventure # 2 sounds fun, but I've only sailed in the Carribbean. Been to Hawaii & Mexico, but never sailed there. Adventure #3, I'd always pick the Big Easy, been everywhere else, save for down under & they all have attractions.<P>Damn, I always wanted to watch a girl in a teddy hang sheetrock Hey point that nail gun somewhere else!!! Yikes!<P>For me, I would like to go Mtn. Biking in New Zealand, but I'd probably never come back. I'd like to ski on all the continents, re-learn rock climbing, and take competitive driving courses and maybe do some mountaineering. Now where did I put that darn lottery ticket <P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Since we're talking about summer fun now, I wanted to see what you guys thought of this.<P>I will be unemployed as of March 31 because our facility is closing down. So I'm going to school full time now (while I work) and afterwards, living on Financial Aid and scholarships. Anyhoo, I am an Anthropology major and this summer is an archaeology class/dig on Little St. Simon's island off the coast of Georgia. I can probably manage to go, but I'm kinda nervous about it. Reasons....<BR>1) My kids will have to stay with their dad and new stepmom for the 4 weeks I'm gone.<BR>2) I will be there with 1 professor and a slew of college types (young).<BR>3) It's been a real long time since I had to "rough it". <P>I want to do it, but I'm not sure I can. Arghhh! Any ideas, suggestions, survival tips??????<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

Well, if you can manage it, and leaving your kids with their dad & SM isn't completely unpalatable option, I wouldn't worry about the younger people, you never know who you might meet Hopefully it's not late spring or summer, the mosquitos down there sometimes have FAA identifiers on them. ouch (we used to call them jaws with wings)<P>I don't have any good survival tips, I just learned to get used to being hungry & dirty & eaten alive by the local population. <P>Sounds like a really cool opportunity!<P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Hey Cooker - I was driving down Greenbrier Parkway last week and drove by your restaurant!!! (Cooker's). Is that where you got your handle?

Nope, I've been c00ker a lot longer than that. I like to "cook" the tires on my car on twisty roads and the occasional off ramp, leading the unsuspecting soccer mom in her "subhuman" following me, unsuspecting, to her cell phone trance induced doom <P>BTW, I live just off Greenbrier, behind the mall. I drive a little blue convertible, unremarkable save for her roll bar and propensity to "shake her tail" <P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

I really love all the new stores that have gone in the last few years on Greenbrier. Like Target (my favorite store!!) and Barnes and Noble and Best Buy, etc. That's one thing you can say about Va. Beach and Chesapeake - there are enough stores to keep even the most diehard shopaholic happy!!<P>Have you been to the ice rink? I haven't gone there yet, but want to, even though I would probably fall on my butt the first two seconds on the ice. It has been way too long since I last went ice skating!

Definitely, Hey Lady, if you'd like, my e-mail is skeeebums@home.com<P>This place has definitely grown up <P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

okay guys - <P>what about the ladies who manage the business where guys weld hammers??? How do you feel about working for a lady boss?<P>just wondering?<BR>

I guess I can add two cents here...<P>I just responded to my stbx's papers through an attorney and read a copy of the letter he sent her. Now I am trying to breathe.<P>My W was probably addicted to her running. She competed in 50K and 50 milers around the west. It was awsome to watch, but for the first five years of our marriage, I counted on one hand the number of times we slept in on Saturday morning, together. 'Course, the showers after the work out was, well.... All in all, there is a self-centeredness there that was not conquerable.<P>So, I have had the "hard body" woman already. Don't think that I will go overboard the other way, folks, but when I am downtown, especially during lunch time, I look at women and think that the personality of this woman, or that woman, would be more important than the tightness of her sweater. (Though, I wouldn't be blind to the latter.) Granted, I should also try to care for myself as much as I would like her to care for herself.<P>I often felt that there is something in each woman that deserved to be appreciated by someone, and for her to be loved for it. <P>And as for make up, any wife is beautiful first thing in the morning, whether she thinks so or not.<P>Being asked out...<P>I just recently told a younger woman who works for one of our customers that I don't have any energy to try and persue anyone right now, but that I may let myself be persued instead. It was not a veiled hint to her, I just indicated that I could NOT deal with the rejections right now.<P>Anyway, it sort of fits with my new dietary adjustment...No fat after 5pm. That is, unless a woman asks me to dinner. (A coworker rolled on the floor laughing when she heard me say that. She said I'm not going to be eating for a looonng time.)<P>Eyes do it for me first, then the lips. There is just something about the mouth of Burnadette Peters!!<P>Manners: I would open the car door for my girlfriend in high school when I took her home. Her mother thought it was so nice that I did that. Then the girlfriend informed her mother that the door handle inside did not work. (Well, for a while, anyway, I looked impressive.)<P>Great thread!!<P>rrunrr.<P>I have the time but not the money for the AZ trip. <P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Almost anything can be undone or forgiven.<P>Never take trust for granted.