Marriage Builders
Posted By: Petvet Tough Love - 11/15/01 05:49 AM
I want to know whether anyone has used the Love Must Be Tough techniques? Also, I would like to know whether it is commen for people to file for divorce or actually divorce and later reconcile?
Posted By: still reeling Re: Tough Love - 11/15/01 07:54 PM
Hi there-<p>Have you tried them? They seem to go against a lot of the Plan A principles other than the fact that you can only change yourself and therefore should take care of yourself. Maybe it's just me, but Plan A seems to recommend being a doormat while at the same time focusing on yourself. LMBT opposes the doormat approach. I am just in the process of reading the book myself so I can't say I've used the techniques. I can attest to one thing though and that is that although my WH is still with the OW whenever I stand my ground and stick up for myself I get much further with him. It's like they say nobody wants a clingly, insecure person. I agree with the LMBT book in the principle that you get more from people when you act like someone who deserves respect. Besides, what have you really got to lose.<p>As for your other question, there seem to be quite a few people who get back together after the divorce. <p>Take care,
K
Posted By: father of 1, husband of 0 Re: Tough Love - 11/15/01 11:14 PM
My brother seems to have recently used the Love Must Be Tough technique with great success.<p>His wife recently filed on him. She seemed to be involved with someone else.<p>I told him to tell her that he loves her and if that's what she wants then fine. He said that this ran counter to the advice he was getting from others. He got a lawyer as I instructed him to do and quickly went about making the arrangements with her to split everything and set up child support and visitation.<p>When they went to court, she walked out uncertain if a divorce is what she wants. She knew her first marriage had to end and felt good about it. (1st husband was a drug dealer) This time, she felt different.<p>Set them free. It's the only way to keep them.<p>If they feel trapped in a "bad" marriage, attempts to keep them will only intensify the trapped feeling and they will only want to escape more.<p>I earned my experience the hard way. I hope it will help my brother.<p>Kevin
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/16/01 06:14 AM
The reason I filed for divorce is that I felt I had no other choice. You see after I gave my wife the choice of staying or leaving, she decided that she was not going to moved and still chase after a homosexual with a partner(I kid you not). She told me that she was not going to move out because she had a house and child. My attorney told me that I had no grounds to legally get her out of house unless she was abusive to me or my son. Even my christian marriage counselor thought that I had no other options. I am willing to reconcile and drop legal action; however, she has to work on marriage and prove that she is legit.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/16/01 06:22 AM
This is a continuance of my other message. <p>
I still want to reconcile, but I cannot allow her to walk all over me without consequences. My attorney told me that if I want child custody, I better stay in that house. So as a result of her not moving out, we have been a terrible living situation. What do you think about this made for tv movie?
Posted By: BrambleRose Re: Tough Love - 11/21/01 03:59 AM
Hi Petvet ~<p>I filed for divorce and had it end in reconciliation. My behavior during my H's A was probably more Dobson than Plan A - however, I don't agree that Plan A is about being a doormat.<p>I filed for divorce, but put it on hold while going thru the last 2 months of my pregnancy. H asked to reconcile a month after - so I put it on hold again. I reopened my divorce (with Steve Harley's recommendation) several months later after I discovered that while my H had stopped with the OW, he was dating other women thru a personals ad on the internet.<p>I had to file for divorce. My state doesn't recognize legal separation. The only way to make sure that I had personal and financial protections in place was to file.<p>The night before our first court date, he came over and initiated a conversation about what I needed to stop the divorce and let him come home.<p>I had my list of "demands" so to speak, and he met them. We are 5 months into a real recovery now.<p>I think plan A is about putting the focus where it always should have been - on yourself, taking responsiblity for your part of the marriage and for your own individual growth. Drawing some boundaries doesn't seem to be inconsistent with that. Plan A is hard, but I don't think it was ever intended to be doormathood.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/21/01 05:54 AM
Thank you BrambleRose for telling me about your situation. Your comments have given me hope that I am doing the right thing. I think my situation will end like yours when it all said and done. Many people do not understand why I am maintaining hope for a reconciliation after filing for a divorce. Many people feel that you either file for divorce and mean it or don't do it. What was your experience in matters like this?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/21/01 03:09 PM
Petvet,<p>Do not file for divorce, unless you mean it. In this, I mean: you will continue on the path and will be divorced, unless your spouse gives up the OP and agrees to the extraordinary precautions needed for your marriage to thrive. <p>Filing for divorce can not be used as a manipulation tool, because you might well end up divorced! You should only file because you no longer want to participate in the situation as is, and you need to protect yourself and your children financially, emotionally, etc. <p>It is OK to still be open to reconciliation, even though you have filed. However, the reality is that you might very well end up divorced, and you need to ensure that you are able to accept that if it comes to pass.<p>I may have misinterpreted your posts, but I somehow got the impression that you filed as a "manipulation tool", and that is risky, risky business, in my opinion.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: BrambleRose Re: Tough Love - 11/21/01 05:01 PM
Petvet ~<p>Dittos to what Roll Me Away said.<p>Do NOT file for divorce if you are not willing to have that be the outcome. Do NOT use divorce as a threat or a manipulation.<p>I filed because 1. I had to, and 2. I was that completely accepting of the reality of my situation and who my H was.<p>I am not divorced because my H decided to do something different because of my Plan A and letting go of him - NOT because I "woke him up" with the divorce papers or anything else.<p>If you can, read my profile on Just Found Out, and perhaps do a search for posts on this forum at the end of June/early July of this year.<p>If you file, you need to be willing to accept the outcome - that you will not be married anymore.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/22/01 06:17 AM
Roll Me Away and BrambleRose are right on the nose.For the past three years,I tried everything to get my wife on the right track.On July 3rd,I had enough after finding out that she was still pursuing this person she says is gay with a lover.She is crazy about this person.I filed for divorce in late July because I felt that I had no other options.I could either choose to do something or live the rest of my life on a rollercoaster.Yes,I thought the divorce filing would wake her up,it has not.I pray that my marriage won't end,but I'm tired of the lies.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/22/01 06:29 AM
Continuance of previous reply.<p>I cannot say that I am prepared to be divorced if it comes to past.I will have to cross that bridge when I get there.Yesterday, my attorney had a long talk with me that I cannot make someone do right and only she can make that decision. Attorney told me to kill her with kindness.I hope and hope that she will come around.In the next week,attorney will submit to wife a 50 (?) interrogotory with (?) dealing with the OP.I hope this will put pressure on wife to reconsider.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/22/01 01:17 PM
Continuance of Reply.<p>BrambleRose and Roll Me Away: what alternatives did I have outside of filing for divorce. I tried Plan A and B. It was difficult to implement Plan B because she would move out and my attorney advised me against moving out because of child custody considerations, so I went to the Tough Love concept. What other options did I have? Please tell me.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/24/01 11:22 PM
Petvet,<p>I wish I had some "magic" answers for you. Alas, I do not. I can definitely understand how you feel - between a rock and a hard place.<p>Know this - only YOU can decide if it is time to give up on your W as a "lost cause". These are very personal decisions, because the ramifications of hanging on for more, or giving up and filing for divorce, each have their own problems for you to have to deal with.<p>I understand that you feel you have no more options, so divorce seems at least a way to stop the vivious cycle of hurt. It is true, that if you can accept the divorce, it will probably ease the pain of betrayal, because your W will will be doing the same things she is currently doing, but she will no longer be your legal wife. Maybe psychological semantics, but that fact helped me tremendously. I divorced - I initiated the divorce. I would have much preferred to have reconciled with my exH, but he would have no part of it. <p>You have been dealt something, and the best you can do is to decide which course will bring you the most happiness. There are many people on here who have been dealing with the affair while married a whole lot longer than I did (14 months) or even you. I think it comes down to your emotional state, your expectations about marriage and your view about the future. Again, these are highly personal situations, and we all take different roads.<p>Know this, no matter what - YOUR W WILL NOT STOP HER AFFAIR UNLESS SHE WANTS TO. Nothing else works. That is why Dr Harley describes it as an "addicition". Try to reason with an alchoholic or a drug addict or a compulsive gambler, etc. No one can be helped unless HE/SHE chooses help. Your W is stuck in the sam pit as so many of our WS's. You can do nothing more, if you have done the good Plan A, other than Plan B.<p>I can not make a decision for you. I moved on and filed for divorce because I saw no hope that my thenH would come back to the marriage or even attempt to try to change. I was waiting for nothing. He wouldn't file - but he wouldn't be honorable either. I looked at him one day and thought to myslef - this is not a person worthy of my love and truly, it was like a magic moment - the last of the love just melted away. I prayed for months for God to give me peace in my heart. The true "letting go" of my thenH brought me the peace I had prayed so long for.<p>If you are a prayerful person, please do turn to God. He does guide us if we open our hearts to listen to Him.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/25/01 05:56 AM
Thanks for your comments Roll Me Away.The most important thing you said was that the only way to stop the affair is unless W wants to stop.Nothing else works.That's the bottom line. As my marriage counselor said,if w chooses to play in the mud with the pigs,let her.She is the prodigal child. I cannot wait for her to wake up and come to her senses.She may be moving out of the house soon; that will help a lot.Once that happens,I will have a hate attitude towards her.I hate her for her arrogance and responsibility.The thought that another man is probably having sex with her makes me want to throw up.Just that thought alone kills me.I see the only way I am going to accept this ordeal is to hate her as an ememy.I feel sad to say this because we have a son together but I do not know any other way of "letting go".I spit on your integrity.Saying this makes me cry.I'm sad.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/26/01 01:23 PM
Petvet,<p>Your posts continue to make me sad. Know that you are going through all the stages of grieving - grieving for the lost hopes and dreams of the family you knew and the family you dreamed would go on until you or your W died. Every person here can understand how you feel. <p>The hatred you speak of is, I hope, a part of the "anger" phase. I even went through a small cycle of hatred for my exH and the OW during the affair. It didn't last too long, though. Think about what you said - it seems as if you want to carry the banner of hatred. If you do, you will be giving away your energy and power to those (your W and the OM) who don't have your best interests at heart. Why do that? It takes a lot of effort and energy to hate. It robs you of energy for finding happiness and peace in your life.<p>A better thing for you to do is to take your focus OFF of your W and your marriage. Neither . Affairs maim our hearts, Petvet. Makes us feel wary of others and definitely knocjks our self-esteem out of orbit. Once you have done all that you can (Plan A, forgive, and be open for reconciliation) there really is nothing more to do. The rest of your efforts are wasted energy. But, YOU need to build yourself back up. To focus on SELF. If you refortify yourself, you will either be a better partner if you and your W reconcile, or you will be better sustained to face a future without her if you end up divorced.<p>Bottom line is this - and I keep going back there - you can do nothing more to help her. Focus on personal growth, and I promise you that these efforts will return to you a hundred fold. Work at letting go of the hate and the anger. They only end up destroying you. You are worthy of a wonderful life and having a fulfilling and mutually exclusive relationship with another, if that is what you choose. In time, the path to your future will be revealed to you. Spend your time now wisely - get yourself ready for the trip!!!<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/26/01 01:58 PM
Thanks again Roll Me Away. You are right once again. My wife informed me last night that she will be moving out starting today. She got tired of me monitoring her activities. At least now, I can implement Plan B in the reverse since I have filed for divorce. Wife is in for a rude awakening. I feel for my son. Damn her! Excuse me, I cannot help it.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/27/01 11:03 AM
Roll Me Away-My wife started packing her things up last night.It was very painful observing this.She was calling friends giving them her new address and phone number; however,she neglected to even give me her new address and phone number. She does not seem to be affected by anything-no emotions,no nothing.It's like she is arrogant.I wish God would just take me out of my misery;the torture is killing me inside.I am working on a letter to give her this weekend as part of plan B.How did your plan B work?Do you think the WS feels any emotions?I am taking life one second at a time.Yes, I am grieving.My hopes and dreams are vanishing before my very eyes.It hurts so much.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/27/01 01:38 PM
Petvet,<p>I am sorry for your continued pain. Hugs to you
{{{{{{{{Petvet}}}}}}}}} and for your son, too.<p>My Plan B was not so good at first. My exH had his office in my house. Even though he had moved out, he came to the house often to use the office. This created opportunities for us to run into each other, which really defeats the purpose of Plan B. Also, I really was terrified of Plan B. I nearly drove myself insane with "what ifs", Petvet. I just could not accept that I could not fix the situation all by myself.<p>I did counsel with Steve Harley, who helped me to see that I desperately needed to go to Plan B. My MB friends here, helped me to see that I was doing a very, very poor Plan B. I counselled with an individual counselor, too, besides Steve, for one year.<p>The act of your W moving out is a hard, hard one to accept, Petvet. I had to do it - twice. I barely was able to accept it at first, even though I suggested it to my then H, as a way for him to be able to sort through his feelings easier. He jumped at the chance and moved out and then spent all his time either with the OW or on the phone with the OW. He sure didn't appear to miss me one little bit. He virtually never called me one time just to see how I was doing. He only ever called to discuss something like finances, and I can probably count those times on one hand.<p>It HURTS, Petvet - it hurts like HELL!! I went from 127 pounds down to 100 pounds in nothing flat. I literally grieved myself sick. Every BS whose WS has moved out can identify with your feelings, Petvet. It feels like pure abandonment, and there is no other way to describe it. I know that you are feeling that same way, and it is the most awful feeling.<p>I think back to that time, and this was the worst part. Not so much the physical affair (although that hurt me so very, very much). What maimed me the most was realizing that not only did my H not love me, he really didn't even CARE about me. You see, you are not alone. The lack of care often goes hand in hand with the affair.<p>Look, all you can do is this - take some deep breaths and talk OUTLOUD to yourself (so you get the message two ways). Tell yourself that you are going to survive for the next 15 minutes. You get up and go to work. You resolve to not think about the affair and your troubles and your unhappiness for just 15 minutes at a time. Try to survive this 15 minutes. If you are successful, then try to survive the next 15 minhutes. If you break down, then go ahead and cry a bit, and then start the clock all over. Live your life in very small increments right now.<p>The bad news is this - this situation is not going to resolve itself in short order, Petvet. No matter what happens to the relationship, it won't be fixed or dissolved in a short time frame. You need your strength. You need to have your wits about you. You need to ensure the best for your son. Yet, through all of this, you do need to grieve, too. <p>At this point, all the decisions are in your W's hands. Only she can decide to come back. You can't manipulate her, entice her or guilt her back into a loving relationship with you. She has to want to come back. She is determined to go out there and "spread her wings" to see if the grass is greener or not. Remember the analogy in Dr Dobson's book - about the bird in the cage? She is determined to escape her cage and by moving out, she has done just this.<p>Are you in counseling, Petvet? Have you talked to Steve or Jennifer? Both are worth doing. They can give such super support and help. You have no choice but to ride the rollercoaster until it stops. Please try to accept that this has happened, even though you don't like it. Try to focus on your own happiness. <p>I prayed the Serenity Prayer until I was blue in the face. Prayers helped me tremendously. I also have another short prayer that I like:<p>Lord, please don't let my fear steal my faith until I land on my feet, again.<p>Have faith, Petvet. No matter what happens, you will survive and thrive, again. Have faith in God to lead you to a better place in the future. Have faith in yourself - you are worthy of love. Have faith in your family and friends - they will be there for you when you reach out and need them most. Have faith that this is just a really, really rough patch in your life, but that it won't last forever - more peaceful and happier times will come once more.<p>Remember to face this in 15 minute segments, today. I will light a candle today to remind me to send prayers your way throughout the entire day. You WILL SURVIVE this ordeal!<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: advice seeker Re: Tough Love - 11/27/01 02:51 PM
Roll Me Away,<p>You have said something that has really hit home for me. I think the hardest thing that I had to deal with while in Plan B (I was in Plan B for about a month, but caved this weekend and I don't really know where I am right now) was not that my H had a PA- it was realizing he just did not care.<p>He just didn't care about my suffering. He didn't care to find out how I was holding up. He didn't care to find out how work was going. He didn't care about me. Truthfully, I do think he cares. But, I think he is so guilty that he is blocking me completely out of his life. That is his way of coping- not healthy at all. <p>I think you have posted some great advice Roll Me Away. I have also benefited from your posts- thanks.<p>PetVet- my thoughts are with you during this horrible time- focus on you!<p>Advice Seeker
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/27/01 11:53 PM
advice seeker,<p>Yes, the pain of total rejection is a bitter pill to swallow. It really does hurt more than the affair itself, in my opinion, so I can sympathize with your pain. If my posts have helped you, I am glad. I have been here for so long - I can not leave because I have so much more to learn. Relationships are a never ending learning opportunity. Take care, friend.<p>Petvet, I am thinking of you all day today. Are you hanging in there??????<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/28/01 04:48 AM
Roll Me Away:Today was a very hard day.I am going through some serious grieving.I cried a couple of times.I had to call my best friend a couple of times,and he tries to calm me down.A couple of weeks ago my marriage counselor put me on medication,but it was of little help to me today.Yes,I am trying to convince myself to put my focus on my son,but I think I am fooling myself.You made an important point about lack of caring by my W.That's what hurts even worst.She is walking around the house with a kinda arrogant attitude.She is talking to all her buddies about her new apartment.I have been putting a lot of thought into what I am going to say to her on Sunday(her last day here).
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/28/01 04:56 AM
Continuance:I want to implement plan B,but it may be difficult because of visitation issues.I am meeting with my marriage counselor on Thursday, and she will help me figure out what I need to say to W.I want my W to know that I am open to reconciliation but her male friend has to go. Since she is moving just 20 minutes away,she thinks that she is going to be able to come and go from the house at will.That's a no no.We will have to set up a schedule.I am hoping to have my son's grandparents act as betweens if possible.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/28/01 05:05 AM
What makes me so nervous about the future is that W has all the cards in her court.She has to make the DECISION;that puts me in a helpless situation.
The concensus among my close friends is that once my attorney sends my wife the interrogotory plus the having my wife's buddie deposed under oath. My wife's world will get turned upside.Some figure that after this occurs,she will come to her senses and attempt to move back in, but as you have said,she cannot be manipulated.For some reason,I cannot see beyond her.I am letting her stand between me and sunlight.I cannot see an end to my misery.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/28/01 05:14 AM
Continuance:Yesterday was very hard on me to the point of considering doing damage to myself.I am trying to stay calm and take life one second at a time.My son helps a lot.As my friend said,what bothers me is that all my hopes for my marriage have gone down the drain because by my wife moving out, reality has smack me directly in the face.I cannot escape the reality which hurts.You have been very helpful to me Roll Me Away; God Bless You.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/28/01 02:02 PM
Petvet,<p>I don't get to the computer as much as I'd like (started a new job), so I am just able to get to your last 4 messages last night.<p>First thing: The desire to do harm to yourself must GO! Your W does NOT have the best interests of your son in the uppermost part of her mind - she is off sorting her feelings and trying to find her happiness. That means that YOU must be the stable parent in your son's life, whether he is living with you or not. You MUST take care of yourself so that you can ensure the best for your son. If you don't want to stick around for yourself, then do it right now solely for love of your son. HE NEEDS AND LOVES YOU!<p>Look, alot of your feelings are being driven by your FEARS. Fear of rejection, fear of being unworthy and fear of being alone. I can speak frankly to you, because I have been there. All of us have. You need to recognize your fears, because only then can you face them.<p>It is 100% natural and normal for you to be torn apart by your W's affair and especially her moving out. This means that the family you have come to know and love is in more jeopardy than ever. I can definitely understand how you can not see beyond your W. That is just a manifestation of how deep your love for her is. You are willing to forgive and willing to work hard to repair your relationship with her. That comes across loud and clear.<p>Yet, despite all that, you can't control it, Petvet. Right now, you have no choices, because your love is keeping you fighting for your marriage. Even if you psychologically choose to withdraw, your heart will tug you back because you still love her. That does put her in the driver's seat right now. If you want the chance to restore your marriage, you have to stay in the game, Petvet.<p>You know, Plan B is not your only choice right now. I don't know how long your Plan A has been. Also, do you think you did a good enough Plan A, by HER judgement? You do have the option of leaving her alone and Plan A whenever you guys do have contact for your son.<p>I will say this. It is imperative for you to set boundaries about her coming and going to your house, though. She choose to leave. That means that she gives up certain rights about the house. You need to establish boundaries and discuss them with her and then stick to them. <p>OK, enough of that. Stick to your survival plan again today, OK? My candle is going again. You can make it through today, too, Petvet. Just follow the plan. Don't worry if you break down and cry again. It is natural due to these difficult circumstances. <p>15 minutes at a time - no thinking about the marriage, your W, your problems or your unhappiness. 15 minutes......15 minutes at a time.<p>Let me know how you are doing. I will check in this afternoon.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/29/01 04:50 AM
Roll Me Away: Today was a lot better than yesterday.Maybe that's because my concentration was on the audit my office is going through.Auditors can be pesty creatures you know.As my thoughts began to creep back on my situation,I started getting down again.Most of my thoughts was on how I am going to deal with this woman after Sunday.I really don't want to deal with her,but we have a son together.I am trying to prepare what I am going to say on Sunday to my W.I may not be able to avoid her after Sunday.She thinks that she will be able to come over everynight to take care of our son.NO WAY!She made the choice to leave.We will arrange a visitation schedule for her.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/29/01 05:01 AM
I tried Plan A,but I don't remember how long I did it.She would not leave the OP alone and it kept affecting our marriage.She would wrire me letters saying that she could not be faithful to me as long as OP was around.The OP is a co-worker.She would let me kiss her or anything.She would not go to counseling.Once I discovered that she lied to me about seeing OP again,I tried implementing Plan B,but she would not leave house,so I filed for divorce.The only reason she is moving out because she thinks I am spying on her,and she knows that I am on to her activities.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/29/01 05:20 AM
By moving to an apartment,she can do whatever she wants without notice.Now I can do some form of Plan B,but it will be difficult with a child between us.I am going to have a serious talk with her on Sunday and lay down the law to her.She definitely will not be able to see son everyday.You are correct when you say I still love her,but you know she really don't deserve my love.It's clear that she is a problem with a lot of baggage.My friend today said to me,"Are you sure you want that thing back".That's a good question.You know I may be better off fortifying my ship and making it into a nice cruiseliner for her and the world to see rather than letting my ship corrode into an old dilapidated war ship.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/29/01 05:30 AM
It's going to be interesting to see how I am doing this time next week after she moves out.She may get out of my system easier than I think.I may be underestimating myself.I may be stronger than I think.Why would I want a problem-person in my life with no morals?Let her be someelse's problem.She may not be as valuable as I think.I have some value too.Having morals does count for something.Roll Me Away,I made the entire day without crying and the thought of killing myself.It is Thursday morning 12:29am. Three more days.I meet my counselor later this morning.Thanks
Posted By: Honey Re: Tough Love - 11/29/01 06:27 AM
Hi Petvet, You will get there. I was devestated when my H moved out Sept. 15, one day after I realized he really was very likely , yes --- cheating on me... alot has happened since...things deteriorated btween us pretty badly about 6 wks before he left and from the cell phone bills, I know that is when OW came into picture... Now supposedly they are over and OW is back with OW's spouse! Yippie!! SO things are looking a bit better, we have yet to make a counseling appt. together- but went from my H insisting he would definitely divorce me, to me attacking the OW at a bar one night... I was drunk and had not eaten or slept for 2 weeks around the end of sept, begging oct... DO NOT GO BEZERK like that... I now have assault charges against me by OW and my H, ouch, and hopefully S will withdraw b/c I did not attack him just the OW, this is hard to deal with... I did not plan to go crzy and do this, I just did... It was based on a lot of craziness such as my H having my kids spend the night at ow's house 2 wks after he moved out, and also the two of them taking my two boys, age 3 and 9 to a bar while the two lovebirds drank beer and played darts, how sweet, anyway... this is not pretty- I am responsible and wanting a NORMAL marriage and nice family , bars, darts, drinking, OW's do not make me happy.l<p>NOR DID the abandonement... the REJECTION... I hated that word when my counselor brought up that I must be feeling very rejected... it can get better... because my situation is... <p>I think my spouse wanted to work things out... and does and the plan a stuff brings us closer... I do not have to be a doormat to plan a, I can be like Jesus and turn the other check when he "slaps" me and let him "slap" the other. We do not have to punish our WS< GOd will. We do not have to take revenge, GOd will. Do good for your spouse, pray for her, pray for the OP. I did, it was hard, but it made me feel better.. they are in deep doo doo with what they are doing aren't they... it is sooo wrong to you and your son.<p>Let them feel the wrong of what they do alll by themselves. MY H loves it when I LB. THe bar incident is a big excuse for him to tell everyone how nUTs I am and why he had to leave me... no it wasn't that he was having an A... was it??? When we LB is it so easy for them to place the blame on us... <p>I know my H and I had some issues that needed work, but nothing like NOW with the A... but there were issues... Plan aing would of helped prior to an A and after.... for your son's sake maybe more plan a only when you must comjunicate with your WS... protect yourself... take care of you. I know it is hard.<p>I basically at your point in this... I could not sleep, I went through major crying spells, could not eat, etc... having an A involved in marital difficulties makes it sooo unfair... they want to avoid their guilt , the ws, so they just act like you are sooo awful and they just have to get away from YOU. DO not worry your WS will feel the pain..<p>I would not press the divorce if you do not truly want it right now... tell the attorney to DRAG it, if you can... if I filed... which I have thought about to protect myself financially,I wanted to drag it... I am stilll considering, but afraid of pushing away the possiiblity of reconciliation.<p>you can email me... I will be glad to be your buddy through this... It gets better, it has been a little over 2 months and I am started to be more happy than sad... this board helps... take care of you, find support wherever you can... do something nice for yourself... buy yourself something you want, take your son out to a dinner with you only! You can have fun without her, I know it is hard at first, but you can...<p>I am still in this mess, and still on an emotional roller coaster.. but I am learning to take care of me.. since my S obviously wasn't ... and I need to anyway, with or without S.<p>Take care- Lisa [img]images/icons/wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/29/01 01:23 PM
Lisa, <p>I am glad you are doing so much better. You have a good attitude - you have to practice self-care throughout these things. No matter if we are happily married, each of us needs to be capable of living independently, because we never know what circumstances might force us to do so (besides separations and divorce, death or serious illness of our mates). You will do fine - just stay away from the bars, teehee. Sorry, I know you got in trouble for that.<p>Petvet, I am so happy that you had a better day. Doesn't matter if it was the auditors or not - you allowed yourself to be distracted by work, and that is great! It is normal! I am very proud of you. You are holding up well under the most dire of circumstances.<p>I don't know what you are planning to tell your W on Sunday. I do know this - if you need to purge yourself of something (something you just HAVE to say to her), then by all means do so. Just DON'T have any expectations from it. By this, I mean don't expect that you will tell her something that is going to change her mind and make her want to come home right away. You will be greatly disappointed if you expect anything you say right now to have much of an effect.<p>Here is another way to look at your circumstances. She IS gone. She is DEEP into the affair. Your W is determined to follow this path. You CAN NOT stop it, Petvet. You asked why would you even want this problem-prone person? Well, right now you still love her. And honestly, all people come with problems, because we are all imperfect. As long as you have love for your W, you should keep fighting for your marriage. But, the most effective way to fight at this point, is to LET GO. In effect, she IS already gone, so your acceptance of this is crucial. Let her be. Go back to Dobson. If she wants you, she will return. <p>I hope and pray that you two can reconcile. I pray for your son and his well-being. It is so hard to go through this. No one can understand unless they have been through it.<p>Right now, your W is not ready and open to hear anything you say, Petvet, so have no expectations on Sunday, OK? Hope your counselling session goes well. I always looked forward to my sessions each week. <p>Pulling for ya, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/30/01 05:14 AM
Honey:Thanks for your comments.Concerning the divorce,there is five or six months left before the divorve goes to trial,but if I see that things are changing in my marriage,I can either stop proceedings or delay.I would probably delay,but lets see what happens.I look forward to hearing from you.<p>Roll Me Away:Today was another decent day.I went to my counselor,and she gave me a good talking to.She called my W stupid,and that my W is 31 years old and acting like she is 16 years of age.The bottom line is that W will have to hit rock bottom before her eyes open.I cannot do anything for her now.She is on her own.If she wants to screw 10,000 guys,that's her business.It reflects on her morality not mine.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/30/01 05:24 AM
I hope that her and the OP have as many orgasms as humanly possible.I hope she parties 24-7 and live left to its excesses.I don't want to associate with anyone like that.There is nothing I can do for her.My counselor got upset with me that my wife asked me to help her move and I told her I would help.Counselor said that it's time to cut her lose now. Counselor said that she is still using me.I thought about what counselor said I called my wife and told her that I will use my trailer to help her move the bed, dresser, sofa,and TV in two trips and after that she is on her own. Since I had already told her that I would help, I wanted to keep my word.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/30/01 05:35 AM
Besides,I wanted to leave W with the thought that I helped her before she lefted.Don't worry Roll Me Away I am not going to get on my needs and cry and beg for her to come back on Sunday.I am writing a Plan B type letter in Dr. Harley's book;in essence,I am going to try to stay away from her as best I can(no speaking unless necessary/stay out of sight when she is around,etc.),but there is SON.It is going to be a juggling act.I will also lay down the visitation boundaries.She has told her parents that she intends to visit house every night to son.NO WAY IN HELL! She will follow a schedule only.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/30/01 05:47 AM
If she wants to visit everynight,I will tell her that if she wanted to visit that much she should have stayed home,but she WILL follow a schedule,period.I told her that I had something to speak to her about on Sunday.Since that time,she has been asking me what do I need to tell her.I told her that she will have to wait till Sunday.Besides,I am still working on letter.Let's see whether OP can shoulder the weight of my W.The feel of her weight is getting less and less and less.I think this is the feeling of slowly letting her go.It hurts some.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/30/01 01:00 PM
Petvet,<p>I think you are doing well considering. I am glad you are going to help your W move, to a point. It shows that you care about her, but you are also drawing boundaries, which are desperately needed in these kinds of situations. There is a fine line between feeling and acting caring and loving and feeling enabling and used. You need to monitor yourself and draw the line whenever YOU feel enough is enough.<p>Your counselor is right - your W will have to suffer whatever consequences come her way from her actions. You might want to think about this in regard to the talk with your W on Sunday - it is not punishment to disallow your W to come over every night. It is a CONSEQUENCE of HER choices and actions. I think it is important for you to state your position from this vantage point. If you don't, she will think you are trying to manipulate or punish her. Instead, you need to say that if you guys are separated, because she choose to leave, then this is no longer her home. Thus she loses the rights that go along with that. If, however, she is willing to come home, sever all contact with the OP, and agree to working toward true reconciliation, then she can avoid these consequences. I hope you can reach her on that level, and check your anger and hurt when you talk.<p>You are doing well. Keep up the efforts! Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/01/01 06:25 AM
Yep!Roll Me Away.There are consequences for one's actions.She told me tonight that it may take her longer than Sunday to move out,and I told her that I was going to move the bed and three other things as plan.As long as the bed is in her apartment,she can sleep there.What upsets me now is the thought that this woman would leave her baby.You are right RMA this women must have already tasted the forbitten fruit and likes the taste.She is deeply involve in this mess.I had a decent day;no crying nor suicide thoughts.I guess reality has set in.It still hurts.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/01/01 04:14 PM
Petvet,<p> [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] Glad you are doing a bit better. Good luck this weekend, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/03/01 11:03 AM
RMA:Well,my son and I are alone now.Yesterday was very difficult for me and my son.I made two trips with my trailer to my wife's apartment to help her move;after those two trips, she was on her on.Last night,I met with her to lay down the rules.She thought she would be able to come and go from the house at will including washing her clothes.No Way!I gave her a Plan B letter and card.She thinks I am trying to be ugly.You want to hear something funny:Saturday night after telling her that I would only make 2 trips to move her,she said you are suppose to be my husband.Is not that ironic?She has never respected me as her husband in 3 1/2 years but only when it's to her benefit.Since she is not here,I feel a little better.It's my son who I am worried about.Has your ex been hit with the consequences of his actions?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/03/01 11:59 AM
Petvet,<p>You and your son were in my prayers this weekend. I can empathize with how sad and lonely you feel when your WS moves out. <p>Your W's words were definitely ironic. Good sign though - she still is thinking of you as her H. I know this is hard, Petvet, but you can absolutely be driven half nuts with all the conflicting things your W is gonna say to you in the weeks and perhaps months to come. She will tell you or say to others some of the most contradicting things you can ever hear. It is part and parcel of the true angst she is really feeling inside. Expect more of the same kind of talk and double-barreled actions, too. <p>Sounds like you did well in your actions and words this weekend. Of course she will resent the consequences. We would all like to have our cake and eat it, too. You are now, and will continue to be for some time, the recipient of her frustrations and actions. Well, as much as I accept that her angst is real, and I do, I do not believe that it is your responsibility to shelter her from the consequences of her choices and actions. The consequences are not your fault, they belong to her.<p>My situation is much further down the line than yours, Petvet. I have been D for almost 2 years now, and my exH married the OW a couple months after our D. I have not spoken to or laid eyes on him in two years but once, at a party we all attended, one and a half years ago. Has he suffered any consquences? From his perspective - I do not know. From my perspective and the perspective of many of our friends and family, he lost an awful lot. Time alone will bear the truth of their relationship. Truly, my world no longer revolves around worrying about it.<p>You are going to make it, Petvet. You can defintely count these as some of the darkest days you will ever have to face, but despite that, you WILL make it. Everyone here is ready to support you and you are doing the things you need to, including counselling and the anti-depressants.<p>God will give you the strength, courage and fortitude you need to go on.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/05/01 05:28 AM
RMA:The last two days have been odd.Not having W around relieves a lot of pressure,but I hate it for my son.For example,as we were pulling into the driveway yesterday, he said "where is momma?",I did not know what to say.Then he said "I should have known she would not be here". That response absolutely killed me.As I was telling my pastor today,I am so angry that I can't express anger at her anymore.I am just astounded by her stupidity.God please forgive me for saying this,I hope she gets Aids or some other sexually transmitted disease.I want her to suffer for what she has done to my son and I.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/05/01 05:43 AM
For the past two nights,W has called to speak to son.Last night,he did not want to speak to her.She tried to strike a conversation with me but she realized that I did not want to speak to her so she quickly got off the phone.Last night,she did not call at all.Interrogatories went to her attorney on Friday,so maybe that was the reason she did not call my son.The questions are really tough including relationship with OP and sexual relations.Her attorney is going to have a baby when he finds out she moved out.This will be the first major bucket of water thrown in her face.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/05/01 05:55 AM
The reason I implemented Plan B is to take myself out of the loop to prevent her from venting her frustrations on me;as a result,she will have to vent somewhere else.More than likely it will be the OP or her friends who will not want to the mess.Eventually,she will wear out her welcome.I feel so bad for my son.I absolutely hate my W for putting our son through this mess.Well,let me go to bed.He is sleeping with me.I am going to give him a hug.By the way, do you have any kids?If so, how are they doing under the circumstances?Would you have done anything different about implementing Plan A & B since ex married OW?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/05/01 01:29 PM
Petvet,<p>Yes, sounds like you are getting a bit of the relief that Plan B brings. It is a scary thing to do, but once implemented, it can take the "pressure" off in an unbelievable way.<p>Your W is now on her own. She will most likely call home when she is loney or doubting if she has done the right thing. You should only be available to her for matters concerning your son. You should always be available to her for matters concerning your son, in my opinion.<p>My children are older - they are college aged. This was hard for them, as they have been raised by my exH, although he is not their father. The absolute worst part is that he totally abandoned them, too. He has basically severed all contact with all of us, although he occasionally forwards email jokes to the youngest. It is OK for me not to have contact with him, but it has hurt my sons more than you can imagine - as if they "did" something to him, other than love him like a father. Well, this is just another fallout of affairs and something we don't understand at all, but we have come to accept this as something that just "is".<p>I am somewhat concerned about the "hatred" feelings yo have, Petvet. I hope this is just the extreme anger talking. You have every right to be angry about how things have turned out. I just want you to be able to reign it in, so that you don't do anything you later regret.<p>Your W has probably not put herself in a good position legally - I wonder if her moving out is considered abandonment in your state? Not a good thing to do. How sad for your little son to wonder where his mother is. He does need to understand that she doesn't live there anymore. Try your best not to speak ill of her, too, as this will confuse him even more. Remember that all children deserve two loving parents and in return, to love both their parents. I am sure that despite her problems right now, your W does love your son.<p>Pray for your W, Petvet. I prayed for my exH. It is the best way to bring forgiveness - true forgiveness - into your heart - by praying, earnestly praying for someone who has betrayed you.<p>Wishing you a good day, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/06/01 06:00 AM
Would it be OK if I called you Desiree instead of RMA?My anger towards my wife pertains to the fact that I want her to feel the same pain that I have felt for the past 3 1/2 years.I want her to suffer like my son and I are suffering.I AM NOT going to hurt her physically nor mentally.I VALUE LIFE.I am just trying to keep moving forward.She called the house and my mom numerous times last evening.She wanted to know where I was(a meeting)and inquired about how well I was taking care of our son.She also said that she wants to talk to me.I hope she wants to talk about our son or reconciliation;otherwise,I have nothing to say to her.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/06/01 06:11 AM
Are you happy Desiree?Will you marry again?Did you know about your exH's OP identity before filing for divorce?Was the affair ever exposed to the light of day?What have you done to move forward?Just for the record,I stopped praying for my wife when she moved out.I pray for reconciliation and my son.There is nothing I can do for her under the circumstances.Yes,I think my wife has an uphill battle on her hands in court if it gets that far.I enjoy communicating with you.You have been very helpful.The unknown is very scary if you know what I mean.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/06/01 02:30 PM
Petvet,<p>Yes, I type my name in, so anyone can use it. I can understand how you want your "retribution" - for your W to feel the pain that both you and your son are feeling. I believe that your W is probably feeling her own kind of "pain", the angst with being very, very unhappy and not knowing how to solve her dilemma. I am not equating her angst with the pain of your betrayal by any means, but in truth, I do believe that she is hurting, too. Try to remember that, Petvet.<p>While in Plan B, if you still want to reconcile, you are still going to have to come to grips with your anger. Look, say you guys do reconcile - after a bit on her own she realizes that she misses you and her son more than she thought, and she wants to come home. That is just the BEGINNING of the HARD WORK. Look at how many people do reconcile, only to find that it doesn't "work" on the first reconciliation. The WS doesn't give up the OP, even though they pledged to do so when they came home. Dr Harley's book is so right on. It happened to Jon in the book. It happened to most of the people on these boards. The first attempts are rarely successful. So, you have to think that may also happen to you, if she decides she wants to reconcile. I guess, the point I am trying to make is that all this anger is not going to help you in the long run. It may even ruin your chances for reconciliation, Petvet. She may think your anger is so great that why should she even try?<p>I know how badly you hurt. I know how angry you feel about the whole nasty business. Just don't go and shoot yourself in the foot, OK? I was not worried about you hurting your W; I am worried about you hurting your chances for reconciliation with your anger. Remember, even though you are in Plan B, you should use Plan A techniques on the occasions you and your W do interact (for purposes of your son or to discuss possible reconciliation). Try to remember what your ultimate goal is - if it is to reconcile with your W, then you need to show your Plan A changes and improvements and give her something and someone to want to come back to!<p>Yes, I do want to get married, again. I believe in marriage. I am dating someone. But, even though that relationship is going super well, it still takes a long, long time to heal from betrayal. To answer your questions: My ex had his affair with a woman who lived in another state. He met her while on a weekend trip to Florida with the guys. I found out after 2 months. It was then a horrible 14 months for me, because he never stopped contact with her. She would call my house, and once even asked me to speak to him. It hurt me beyond belief. While living at home, he left many weekends to go to FL to spend the weekend or week with her. It was so degrading. He went to one counseling session and refused to go after that. I finally asked him to leave, which he was delighted to do. I could no longer take the hurt of the open affair. Close friends knew and the children knew. I hung on because I believed this was a crisis reaction to the death of his brother (one year younger than ex) who was diagnosed with AIDS the week before ex went on his FL trip, and died 6 weeks later. I really believed that this unexpected tragedy had thrown my ex for a loop, and that one day he would "snap" out of it.<p>Yet, that never did happen. Instead, he progressed further and further with the OW. The affair was exposed to others and his family, and as far as I can tell, it really didn't affect their relationship one bit. He bought a houseboat for them to live on (she moved here from FL) and he took money from our joint savings account to do so, without my knowledge. He let Thanksgiving and Christmas pass without a word from him - he was with the OW, and the children - both his and mine, did not hear a word from him. His continued disrespectful and callous behavior finally made me lose the remaining respect I had for him. With the respect gone, it didn't take long for the remaining love to just go away. At that point, I did not see my ex as a man I would even want to date if I was single and we had just met. I filed for D, and the rest is history.<p>I have since found out that the OW, who he married 2 1/2 months after our D, was not the first OW. There were others before her. I thought we were a happy couple, so the shock of this all really took a long to sink into both my heart and my brain. As for my part, I know now that I was not giving my ex the attention and recreational companionship that he needed. I put my career and my persaonal hobbies before time in the relationship. It suffered quietly, without me realizing it, because I took it for granted. I took it for granted - that he would always be there. Hard lesson to learn the hard way: A relationship takes constant attention and nurturing to survive and to thrive.<p>Petvet, there is alot of experience here - experience garnered the hard way. Listen to the folks here. They can help you, because they have gone through the same thing. Pay attention also to posts by WS's and former WS's who post on the forum. Even if you don't agree with all things that are posted, you can at least get an understanding of where they are coming from.<p>You have to spend this time wisely, Petvet. Work on your anger and resentments. No matter what happens in your relationship, you will need to have the strength to have the energy to rebuild - either your marriage or a single life. Healing takes alot of ebergy and it doesn't happen overnight. Nurture yourself and your child. Reflect on your relationship with your W. Do you have a clear understanding of what went wrong between you two? Have you both spent anytime in trying to understand why your relationship soured? If she won't do it, you need to - you must understand this as a part of the healing process. No matter what, you need to be doing alot of mental work right now, Petvet.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: K Re: Tough Love - 12/06/01 02:56 PM
PetVet,<p>I think that you're in excellent hands with Desiree, but I just wanted to hammer home a couple points.<p>Firstly, although it's very tough to tell, I'm not sure that you've done a very effective plan A. What does seem to be evident throughout your posts is that you're reacting to your wife's behaviors. One of the underappreciated beauties of Plan A and B (especially done under direction of one of the Harley's) is that they're not "reactive"---they are a proactive approach that helps to dampen a bunch of the horrible feelings that you're going through on this rollercoaster. With these plans, you're in effect going to work on your marital skills, tailoring them to your spouse (Plan A), and then completely separate from contact with them before they've killed your love for them (Plan B). All throughout this time you are "demonstrating" your love for your spouse, either by eliminating lovebusters and attempting to meet needs (Plan A)---or by simply hanging in there during what appears to be an intolerable situation (Plan B). You're not reacting to what your wife does or doesn't do---you're saying to her "look---I don't like this affair business. But I will work on our marriage and make this a better place for you, with or without your help."<p>The bottom line is that most affairs will end within a couple of years. And if you loved your wife before this "insanity", and she had decent marriage skills (in effect, you weren't a complete idiot for marrying her)---the chances are good that you can rebuild the marriage, should you get through this period. It's not easy; in fact, it's probably the most horrible period that you can go through---but the pain will fade, should you be successful.<p>I'd encourage you to find a therapist who will not belittle your spouse, and help you feed on your "rightful" anger. It's not helping you in Plan B. Plan B is still a Plan bent on reconciliation---and your only job in Plan B is to protect YOUR love for your spouse. That means insulating yourself from the horrible things that she's doing right now---but it also means managing your anger as well. If you can't get to the point of forgiveness, understanding, and dealing with the situation---you are GUARANTEED to fail, whether you reconcile or divorce. If you reconcile, the work will actually be harder (you'll be in the situation of having to Plan A someone who put you through hell, and you're going to ask the question "is this worth it???"). If you divorce, you're going to be horribly bitter. You won't be able to effectively coparent your son, and this will very likely poison future relationships.<p>Work on the forgiveness aspect now. Lose the bitterness. As bad as you feel, in all likelihood, your wife will end up feeling much worse when she crashes. And she's not going to have anyone to blame but herself for it. If you love her---you'll feel for her and you'll be able to make an attempt at reconcilation. The other (good) outcome of Plan B is when you don't feel much of anything. At that point, you'll be healthy enough to move on.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/07/01 05:18 AM
Thanks for your comments.The important part of this forum is the wealth of experiences that is shared amongst the members.You have given me food for thought.Please understand this messy stuff is new to me.I have always taken my relationships very seriously.Yes,I played a part with my with looking elsewhere for love.I have learned the complex details of meeting your lovers needs.I will not make the same mistakes in the future.I need to review Plan A again.I get the impression that I am not doing something right.I guess I need to be careful with my anger before I scare W away.Can I forgive?Yes,I can.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/07/01 05:36 AM
It will take time to build trust with my wife or anyother women(if it comes to that).It's just going to take time.I am going to have flowers and card waiting for W when she picks up son later today.I am working on myself.I am marching foward and am taking pride in learning from my mistakes and retooling myself. I am very focused.It has been a couple of days since I got depressed or cried.I am trying to build a better me.I guess I need to revisit Plan A in Harley's book for a better understanding.RMA:I'm sorry to hear about your past situation.I can tell you are a stronger
women from your experience.My wife told me last night that she wants to speak to me.I will let you know what she says.I'm going to a movie and dinner this weekend by myself.Son is still asking
where his mom is.He is the main reason I am upset with W.It seems so stupid.I am going to be the best I can for my son.I am going to make myself a better human being.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/07/01 01:42 PM
Petvet,<p>I liked your last two posts. You are showing more understanding already. Please realize - relationships and human dynamics are ever-evolving things. You have to constantly learn and constantly adjust. Sounds like you have begun to critically and honestly assess yourself and your skills and actions as a marital partner. This is one of the best things you can do for yourself, besides for your marriage. By being honest with yourself, you can identify the behaviors you have that MUST be changed. You must adapt and change in order to be successful with your W, because what you have been doing isn't working - she is looking for and finding love elsewhere.<p>K, thanks for jumping in and offering support. I agree with K that you might not have done such a good Plan A. Honestly, I did a TERRIBLE Plan A at first. I did not realize it until I began to counsel with Steve H. He told me on my first counselling session that I was doing a terrible Plan A, even though I thought I was doing great. I was constantly trying to educate my then H and I was also doing all the other things that drive your S further away - beggin, pleading, trying to make him feel guilty, etc. All I did was drive him further into the arms of the waiting OW. The point is, I was making more mistakes without even realizing it. My number one piece of advice to you right now is to call Steve immediately and begin to counsel with him. This is the BEST money you can spend, because you will get professional advice tailored directly to your situation. Think of it as a family Holiday gift. It isn't cheap, but a few sessions to get YOU on track will go a long, long way. It is important to do things right in the beginning, Petvet - 'cause you might end up like me without a second chance.<p>Enjoy the time out by yourself. That will do you some good.<p>You and your W should sit down and talk to your son together about why she has left. If you support her in this, I believe it would go along, long way in your favor. If you trash her, she will add that to the list of reasons why she shouldn't come back to you. <p>Keep the faith - God has put support resources here for you!<p>Desiree<p>[ December 07, 2001: Message edited by: Roll Me Away ]</p>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/08/01 01:03 PM
RMA:I am going to check into counseling with Steve.As far as talking to my son about what's going on,I am going to play it by ear.I don't want him knowing no more than he has to.I am trying to stay focus on the matters at hand.W has son for the weekend,so I may catch a movie this evening and dinner.I am going to get back to strict business like I use to be. I am going to get all my ducks in a row and kick butt(figurtively speaking).I am going to show her what she is missing, and impressing onto others that I have my act together and keeping it that way.I am not going to let her nor anyone else throw me off track.I am a 38 years old with a lot to do for myself and my family before God calls me home.If W wants to be with other people so be it.I am facing this reality because I have no other choice. It is looking me right in the eye. There is no escape.I either face it or parish into eternity. Many people thought my W was a liability to me rather than an asset.All I have to say is I am very focus.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/08/01 01:50 PM
Petvet,<p>Good deal! Glad you will call Steve. I promise you, it is eye-opening and worth the money. I also had a personal counselor that I counselled with weekly for a year. That was a great support, too. <p>Enjoy your weekend. As hard as it is right now, with things so tupsy-turvy, just know that in time you feet will be planted firmly on the ground once again.<p>I will burn a candle for you this weekend. Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/10/01 04:54 AM
Hi RMA:Well,I kinda feel bad again.Let me give you a recap of my won-der-ful weekend.On Friday,W picks up son from school.Starting Saturday morning,I started getting phone calls from W.On Saturday alone,W probably called at least five or six times(point of reference:I tried to make myself out of sight;I saw calls on caller ID so I did not answer every phone call.Today,she called three or four times before I picked son up at her place.She looked like she was under a lot of pressure because her appearance has gone down even though she just got her hair fixed.She told me that our son had a dream last night that she was back home playing video games with him.I really did not want to see nor talk to her as
much as I did this weekend.I did not have anyother choice.I gave her flowers and a card when I arrived at her place and hug and kiss her
goodbye when I lefted.I can't wait to speak to Mr.Harvey.You really think he will be helpful,huh?I have to try to do my part for my son's sake to pull this thing back together if possible as well as get my feet firmly on the ground.In mass today,the priest in his homily said that we alone have to decide to make changes in our lives for the better no one else can do this for us.I have decided to make myself better.How did Harvey help
you?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/10/01 01:46 PM
Petvet,<p>All things considered, this was really not so bad at all. I like the fact that your W called or at least attemptede to call yu so many times. That is very, very encouraging. Do make yourself scarce. Remember, one of the reasons for Plan B is to allow your W a glimpse of waht life without you will be like. She is already missing you or at least worried about what you might be doing, and that is excellent! <p>The flowers and the card were great. Now you have firmly established your desire to reconcile, but do nothing more after that. If you guys interact, think Plan A and be nice and be charming, but leave her alone in the times in between. You are having a good start.<p>Steve Harley was worth the money to me. He answered my questions and most importantly, he helped me to strategize my own situation. Unfortunatley, my ex wanted no part of anything related to it, but still, I feel I did 100% of everything that I could do in my situation. So, even though I ended up D, I feel good about all my efforts. I have no regrets in that arena whatsoever. Additionally, I feel so positive about life and being in another relationship, because I have learned so very much about relationships and human dynamics. You can not control your W, but if you can learn to be a better partner, than at least you will be able to get something positive out of all this pain, no matter how things end up.<p>I do feel somewhat positive about your situation, Petvet. Your W is still fence-sitting, and that means there is still potential for her to want to reconcile and then do things RIGHT. All hope is not gone in your situation. Steve will have something to work with in your case.<p>You are doing well. Keep reading - Look for the link to the suggested reading materials somewhere here on the forum. Make your appointment today!<p>Later, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/12/01 05:03 AM
Hi RMA:My wife and I took my son to a child neurologist today,so I had to interact with her much more than I would have liked.I noticed for the first thiry or so minutes that she had a mean look on her faced and continually look out the passenger side window.Based on my experience with her,she would look out the passenger window when she is angry.I had not done anything to her.After about a hour,she began to interact with me more freely.When we got back from the doctor's office,my son cried very heavily when we lefted his mom (I think my son has come to the conclusion that mom may not be living with us again).What's so odd is that during the past week and a half my W and I always hug and kiss lip to
lip at the end of a visit.The reason why this catches my attention is that there were many times during the past three years when my wife would not allow me to kiss her much less hug her.
Oh!I have an appt.with Harley on Friday morning.I am pumped to speak with him.He may help me to develop a plan.Before I put my son to bed,he said "dad I need to speak to you,I really really miss my mom".THIS IS THE MAIN REASON I AM FIGHTING TO KEEP MY MARRIAGE.Do you think I should tell W what son said?Since I do not forsee any reason for us to be together for an extended period of time,I can better implement Plan B.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/12/01 01:25 PM
Petvet,<p>I am so happy you were able to get the appointment with Steve so quickly! I am not sure if you should tell your W what your son said - that is a good question for Steve. One thing I di that might help to make your first session more productive is this: I sent Steve an email with a synopsis of my situation, in as clear and honest of terms as I could. I think they may have recommended doing this when I set up the first appointment. That way, Steve can have the facts in fornt of him and it helps to get him up to speed on your situation.<p>Petvet, don't read too much into your W's anger right now. Everybody has some anger in this situation. Your W is very unhappy and thus far she can't really see how to resolve her situation. She is likely frustrated and has her own feelings of being "cheated" by life. I do not condone her actions, but having been here as long as I have, I certainly have come to understand that the WS is full of hurt and angst, no matter where or what the origin of that is.<p>What is of utmost importance is that you are the stabalizing force in your son's life right now. Kids understand to a point, and then they don't. Somehow, amny kids often feel "responsible" in some way for the breakup of their parents. Your son needs to know that you will be there for him. Is you son OK - the Neurologist appt? <p>Know that right now, you are doing all that you can. I know you want to stay married for your son's sake, but, Petvet, underneath your anger, your love for your W is still there, too. That love will keep you going when your head says no to.<p>Your family is in my prayers. Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/12/01 02:16 PM
RMA:I will send Steve an email with a brief history.My son has some psychological issues that may be related to some neurologocal problems. I don't know what to think about W.I just need to stay away from her,so that I won't have to look at her.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/15/01 11:52 AM
Thanks RMA for recommending Steve's counseling. The session yesterday was GREAT!He has gotten me on a different track from the one that I have been traveling.He told me to abandon Plan B and solely do Plan A.He wants to determine why wife is unhappy and what's my role in her unhappiness.He told me that there's still hope for my marriage.He told me to go all out Plan A even to the extent of me feeling like a doormat or being used.Also, he wants me to fill out a Lovebuster questionaire from her perspective ans send it to him plus he wants to speak to my wife about my lovebusters if she will cooperate. He said that I need to convince her that things will be different if she returns. Needless to say, I have a lot of work to do, but at least I have a
game plan.I will keep you informed.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/15/01 01:40 PM
AWESOME! Nothing makes you feel better than having a plan! Great going, Petvet!<p>Good Luck, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/16/01 12:45 PM
RMA,you may want to sit down for this one.Yesterday,I asked my wife whether I could come over to her apartment.She said yes.Once I arrived and some small talk,I asked her whether she would be willing to talk to Steve Harley,she said yes.I nearly passed out with shock.Okay,one for two.Then I asked her whether she would accept my invitation to attend a concert by one of her favorite groups with me New Year's Eve and she said yes.I sat there with my mouth open,two for two.I could not believe it.While I was with her and my son,she told me that she was going to come over to wash her clothes.I had to hold my mouth shut to avoid saying anything.Steve told me to be a doormat.In the short run,I guest I will have to use makeup to cover up all the shoe marks that will be reflected on my face from being a doormat.This is going to be interesting.See!That's why I told you to sit down.You may have fainted from this surprising news.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/16/01 03:25 PM
Good morning, Petvet - and this IS a good morning! I am not as surprised as you think. I have told you that I thought your situation was not as hopeless as you had thought. I am very, very happy for you and your family. Keep up the good work!<p>Most of all, your attitude has changed. Yu are doing a great job at checking your anger, and perhaps that is beginning to pay off for you. I do want to address your comments about being a "doormat". My opinion is that there is a fine line between being open and willing to reconcile and keeping your mouth shut to facilitate that as one position, and being an enabler and a doormat as a second position. Right now, I do not think you are in a doormat position at all. You are doing what you need to do to give your marriage the best chance for recovery. It is early in the process, and your W is confused and dealing with her own angst. I do not think it is unreasonable to do what you are doing. It is only later that I believe your position would flip and become an enabler and a doormat. Your W needs your understanding at this point, but with boundaries, too. Try to keep this uppermost in your mind. A change of attitude will change the relationship dynamics, for sure.<p>Be nice when she comes over to do the laundry. And, let me know how the date goes! When will you both talk to Steve next? That will help 1000%. I was never able to get my ex to talk to Steve at all. I am so proud for you. [img]images/icons/grin.gif" border="0[/img] <p>God bless you and your family. Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/16/01 07:40 PM
RMA: Steve is going to talk to my wife separately from me.I think is trying to draw her in.He wants to talk to her about my lovebusters and why she is so unhappy?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/16/01 11:46 PM
Petvet,<p>You are doing fine. Look at your W's revealations as a GIFT. You will get to finhd out what behaviors you have that make you an undesirable mate. You might find out that you do things right, too - maybe just not often enough to satisfy your W's needs. If she does the counselling with Steve, she might even get to the point where she is interested in what SHE does in terms of lovebusting and failing to meet your needs. This is a wonderful opportunity for you two to get your relationship not only on track, but better than it was before.<p>Keeping your family in my prayers! Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/18/01 05:27 AM
RMA:I hope you are right.I just hope she does not change her mind.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/21/01 11:56 AM
Hi RMA:I just wanted to wish you and your family a happy holiday season.I have appreciated your feedback and advice and hope that our relationships with the opposite sex go well in 2002.I have been feeling pretty good lately;as a matter of fact, I have determined that regardless of how my situation with my W works out that I am going to improve myself so that I can be a better mate to someone else.I really want to be in a strong loving relationship with someone.If my W don't want to benefit from what I have learned,then someone else will.I cannot believe I have gotten to this point when I think about two weeks ago.My W and I are taking son to movie tommorrow and we are going to see "ALI" on Christmas.W has an appointment with Steve next Friday.I'm taking her to Spa Sidell tommorrow so she can use a gift certificate that I purchased for her last year this time.I am going to turn on the charm a be as loving as possible because that's the way I am.If she wants me, good,if not,that's good too.Hey!There's other fish in the sea who may want me if she does not.The money I am spending on Steve I am regarding as an investment in my future. I am feeling pretty good right now.I am going to redecorate the house.My W just don't know what she has given up.Talk to you later;son just woke up.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/24/01 02:18 PM
Petvet,<p>I have been gone a few days. Wishing you and your family a Happy Holiday, too! I hope that 2002 brings your family back together and closer and better thasn either you or your W ever imagined!<p>Merry Christmas, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/30/01 01:15 PM
Hi RMA:I hope your Christmas went well.My Christmas was surprisingly good.My W,kid,and I visited my mom's house for the annual Christmas breakfast,and we also opened gifts at my inlaws the night before.My W spoked with Steve on last Friday,and she told hil that she would speak to him again.She had to cut the convrsation short because she was at work,but they spoke for over 40 minutes.She only said that he preached to her and that he knew who the rock group Living Colour was.We are going to see the group tommorrow night.Do you think I should ask her what they talked about?I'm just curious.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/30/01 07:48 PM
Petvet,<p>Thanks for asking. My Christmas was wonderful. I had a house-full for dinner and the kids - mine and my guy friend's - all played basketball in the afternoon. We made hot cocoa and half froze to death watching and played some ourselves. It was a happy time.<p>I am so happy that you and your family ended up together for Christmas. I am thrilloed, too, that your W has kept her word about talking to Steve. 40 minutes is a great start! No, I would not ask her about the call. If and when she is ready, she will talk about it. One thing I learned the oh so hard way, Petvet, you can't force ANYTHING where matters of the heart are concerned. You can only define boundaries for yourself - what you are willing to accept or not accept from others. Let her be and if she chooses to share she will. <p>The most important things are that she is willing to discuss her feelings with Steve and that she is also willing to spend time doing things with you. It will give you the chance to show her how much you love and care about her. Also, this is your time to show the changes you have made in yourself. You have a lot of opportunity, Petvet. I continue to pray for you and your family. There is so much hope here for a successful reconciliation. You guys enjoy the concert!<p>Wishing you a wonderful 2002! Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/31/01 01:04 PM
RMA: You know she said to me yesterday that she was being nice to me because she is going to have to deal with me anyway throughout my son's life. I gave her flowers and a card. I am trying not to get my hopes up. I am trying not to read anything from her expessions, etc. I feel I am walking a tightrope. Do you know what I mean?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 01/01/02 02:55 PM
Petvet,<p>Yes, I certainly understand how you feel. It is so hard to love someone who is so ambivalent back about you. They totally hold your fate in their hands as long as you love them.<p>You are doing a fine job. The flowers and cards are so nice. Deep down, your wife must really appreciate all these things - most women do! The most importyant thing is to understand what you were NOT doing before that made her so unhappy, so that you can do a better job this time around.<p>Do you have a good understanding of what was "missing" in your relationship when the affair started? What have you done to address this?<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/01/02 04:17 PM
Happy new year RMA!Before I tell you about last night,let me address your question.To be honest with you,I can only guest at what was making my wife unhappy.I know about several things that were issues in our marriage but how these two or three issues over five years tie into major love unit withdrawal that led to an affair, I don't know. Steve told me to make a list of things that I thought made her unhappy. They were three or four events during the course of five years. None did not involve a third party. They were first child conception, leaving job to a start
business, part time business I operate outside of my regular job that I operate on average of once or twice a month, and my love of dogs(I show
Alaskan Malamutes in competition)and pets.Two of these issues are not relavent any more, but I am dealing with the aftermath four or more years later.She has told me what her needs are but which ones I am not meeting, I have no idea.That's where I hope Steve can help me. Last night was GREAT.She said that she had a good time.We did not leave concert until after 1:30 am.Interestingly,as I was driving last night,she asked me whether I had spoken to Steve.I told her no;apparently, she thought I would speak to him after her conversation.She said that he will tell me what she said.She does not like psychologists or marriage counselors.She thinks it's a waste of money and time and she relayed that to Steve.She said that she would talk to him again.Also, last night,I heard my son tell W that he misses her and wish she would come home and she responded by asking him whether I put him up to ask her that question and he said no.I am going to talk to get some information from Steve and find out what he wants me to do next.I think at some point in the near future W and I need to sit down for a long
and deep conversation.I know that she is not happy with her present financial situation that will probably get worst if we don't derail the divorce train.What needs I am not meeting is the big question.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/02/02 06:33 AM
RMA:After further comtemplating your question after my response,I remembered that I did ask what she wanted.As a matter fact, I have the original sheet of paper she wrote her response on.The wants are in the following order:Flowers,opening doors,cards,time together,and plan special trips.I will grant you that through my over eight years of marriage,her wants were not met on a regular basis,but I will have to say the flowers,opening doors,cards were regular for the past three years,as a matter of fact,she told me to stop giving her flowers.Time together was normally late in the evening after son went to bed, but a bigger problem for three years was that we worked different shrifts.After the baby was born, special trips ceased to zero.
After the affair became knowledge,I tried to arranged a getaway for us to Amelia Island, Florida but she backed out at the last minute and was not interested in going anywhere with me after that.Still, I wonder whether her wants and unmet needs are the same thing?While we were dating, I was a prolific card giver along with occasional flowers.We spent every available time we had together.We took little excusions to parks,etc.,and I opened doors.I know what you are probably thinking.Just repeat what got me in front of the preacher in the first place.If it worked once,it will work again,maybe.I just need to keep it up continually.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/02/02 12:05 PM
RMA:Have you heard about Restore Ministries?I just received one of their publications,"How God Will Restore Your Marriage".If you have not heard about them,their web site is at www.restorem.org.You know I am doubting myself again because I may have blown it by asking and letting her moveout or worst yet filing for divorce.After months of thought, I just did not know what else to do.Since she has left,my stress level has decreased tremendously.I have some piece of mine.I know that I want my marriage but I am not confident about how to get there.Sometimes I'm not sure whether I am making head way or what.When I call her,she acts defensive.I know I have been through this self doubt before but I am just wondering where this thing is headed if anywhere.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 01/02/02 01:36 PM
Petvet,<p>Lots of info in your three short messages! First off, you really have the information you need. Your W wants to feel admired and appreciated, Petvet. Truthfully, most everyone does. During courtship and early marriage, you made it quite clear that she was #1 in your life. It is an AWESOME feeling to feel so loved and important to the one you love. You obviously did this so well.<p>By her written messages to you, you know what she is missing - that old feeling of being special and most important in your life! <p>All of us with kids can understand how those special things sort of fall off the radar screen once the baby/babies start to arrive. However, you can no longer afford to NOT put your W and your relationship with your W at the TOP of your list. You are seeing and living the consequences of failing to keep the relationship thriving. Your family and marriage will fall apart without your constant attention and nurturing. <p>Without her words written to you, can't you see how easily and sagerly she responds to your efforts? She WANTS to spend time with you when you go out of your way to make her feel important and special. Petvet, the key to success is in your very hands. If you continue to do the things you are doing - and they come freely from your heart, your W will be drawn back into your marriage like a bee to a honey comb. You are doing a bang-up job, Petvet!<p>Her willingness to talk to Steve is amazing. In my opinion, it seems as if her affair was a "wake-up" call top you, Petvet, and not an exit affair at all.<p>I am really glad you guys had fun at the concert. You know, you don't have to spend every waking minute wooing and entertaining your W, but as my signature line says, little acts of kindness on a regular basis go a long, long way.<p>Everybody has to learn how to balance life, love and responsibilities and recreation. Dr Harley says to find things to do together so that you may enjoy activities without the other person feeling resentful of the time involved or feel left out. What might you think to suggest as a new (or old) hobby you two can both pursue and enjoy? Maybe even something like bike riding, so son can tag along, too?<p>Your doubts and fears are all normal at this stage. Again, don't pursue your W too much. She has to come home freely and you can not successfully pressure her to do so.<p>Prayers for you all again today. I am also throwing a challenge out there to other MB friends who may be reading this. This is a truly hopeful situation and we need as many prayers for this couple as possible. Please join in with your prayers for this family.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/03/02 06:58 AM
Thanks RMA for your encouragement.You know it is snowing like cats and dogs here in Hotlanta.It is amazing how 2,3,4,maybe 5 inches of snow can bring an entire city to its knees.I know people up north are laughing at us' crazy southerners.It has not snowed like this since '93.W has called me a number of times about the snow;she wanted to make sure kid and I were OK.Steve wants to speak to me next Wednesday alone.You are right RMA I have been given a wake up call big time.As I said previously,I have wooed her before,maybe I can do it again.I cannot wait to speak to Steve to see what he has to say.One thing I can say is that I have learned so much about relationships in the last couple of months.If I get her back,I am not going to let this happen again.I am going to make sure I keep wooing her.Even when I am in a bad mood,I will always be aware of my actions and how she feels.I hope you are having a ball with your relationship.It must be a good feeling knowing that you have this databank of knowledge about relationships to pull from. Are you seeing a difference in this relationship and the old one?Do you think you are realizing the benefits of
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 01/03/02 04:01 PM
Petvet,<p>I am glad I am encouraging you. It is one of the reasons I haven't left here. I just have limited time for this, though. I have been at "this" for right at 3 years now. All I can say is this - you can NEVER learn enough or too much about relationships and relationship dynamics. Yes, I am having fun in my new relationship, but I try with all my might never to take any part of it for granted!<p>Yes, the snow is a hoot for sure. Enjoy, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/14/02 02:14 PM
Hi RMA:How are you doing?I hope love is going well for you. I have an important question for you: Do you think having a divorce case hanging over one's head would hinder reconciliation? I spoke with Steve again and he will talk to my W and I soon, and she has sent indications to me that I need to read biblical scriptures concerning divorce and adultery.She has not even return her discovery information to my attorney which is two weeks over due.I'm just wondering whether she is scared to take that extra step to me knowing that the D is still out there. What do you think?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 01/15/02 06:25 AM
Petvet,<p>In your situation, I think you should consider putting the divorce on hold. You and your W are just beginning active counselling with Steve. Why push the envelope???<p>You might want to consider telling your attorney to stall and not do anything more unless you instruct him/her to, and then to sit with your W and tell her that you are willing to put things on hold as long as she continues to work on the marriage. You guys have a lot going for you right now, in relation to the affair. If you push the legal aspect, it will send her the wrong message, at a point where she needs to see that you are still interested in reconciliation.<p>Good luck, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/22/02 05:50 AM
Hi RMA,I have some bad news for you.My W and I had a session with Steve Monday afternoon.I thought the session went fairly well with my W agreeing to another session;however,last night, she called me to tell me that she did not want to go through any counseling because it has not worked in the past.Keep in mind that we have not ever completed a marriage counseling program.Why? Because whenever we would start counseling,she would not do assignments or just would stop going to sessions.She said that she never has wanted to go to counseling sessions.She said I was the one who wanted to go not her and that I was the one who made the appointments.She said that for the past year or so,she was depressed and that she does not want to go back to that.She said that she does not want to give me anymore chances,but when I think about it,I'm not to sure whether I have had a fair chance from the get go.I mean it appears to me that she did not go into the counseling sessions in good faith,commitment,and without encumbering the sessions.I think she has dug her heels in.I am going to speak to Steve to see what he recommends.She told me that whenever she was out with the third party that she felt so "ALIVE" that she cannot imagine going back to a depressed situation.I don't know what Steve can recommend.Even though I pray for my family every day,my hope is dwindling fast that we will ever be together again.I think my wife was glad to get out of the house so that she could be free.She told Steve that she was happy with the current situation even though he told her that her happiness will be short live.I'm very sad.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/25/02 11:52 AM
Hi RMA: I recommend reading Dr. Laura's "10 Stupid Things Couples Do to Mess Up Their Relationships". Good Book!.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 01/28/02 01:25 PM
Petvetr, sorry to hear the counselling didn't go so well. It is to be expected. Your W's commitment to recovery will come and go. Her feelings of depression rang a bell. My exH felt the same way - he was deeply depressed and desperately didn't want to go back into the "pit" again, to use his own words.<p>All you can do is support her and let her know that you love her and want a full marriage again. Also, this is a horrible tim for you - so you need to focus on self, too. As much as you can, and this is super hard to do, try to NOT focus on the marriage, but in yourself, your life and your own happiness. It is the only thing in your control, Petvet. <p>I am hoping she will change her mind. Many WS's do, you know. Nonetheless, keep your own counselling sessions. You will need the expert advise and support. Keeeping your family in my prayers.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/04/02 12:30 PM
Hi RMA! I hope life is going well for you and your love ones. I have a dilemma. To make a long story short, Steve think I may need to drop my legal action against my wife. Of course, I need to consult with my attorney first. He thinks this will be good as long as this action does not put me at a disadvantage.He said I would feel so much better if this marriage does not work that I did everything humanly possible to make the marriage work. Even though W said that she could not guarantee that she would be faithful,Steve said that I don't know either way what she may do.It is a 50/50 proposition. He just does not think she can be feeling too good with the legal thing hanging over her head. I am meeting attorney tommorrow.<p>Puzzled in ATL.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/05/02 01:42 AM
Petvet,<p>I am glad to hear that Steve agreed with the advice I had already given you. You can't press for a divorce and expect your W to do the counselling, etc. I agree 100% with what Steve told you. You have a 50-50% chance of things going either way. If you give 100% of yourself to saving your marriage, it just might work. If it doesn't, then you can at least walk away with no regrets that you didn't try hard enough. Petvet, these are TRUE words. I gave 100%, but ended up divorced anyway. But, I can say that I do not regret trying and I think it all helped me to heal quicker and to move on. I did all that I could do and I feel GREAT about that. I like the person I see each morning when I look into the bathroom mirror.<p>The worst part of all of this is the time....waiting what seems an eternity to know how things will end up. Keep the faith. And keep up your counselling. Live your life as if it is the last day, Petvet, because none of us know for sure. Find the joys and happiness whereever you can. Love your little son and hug him. Let your W know that you care, but try not to let this consume you.<p>God bless, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/06/02 12:01 PM
Hi RMA! I have decided to dismiss my suit against my wife in order to make a honest and good faith attempt to save my marriage.My attorney told me that legally it would not be a disadvantage.I am jumping out solely on faith. I can only try and see what happens. She may turn right around and refile against me but at least I tried everything humanly possible.<p>God Bless.<p>Oliver
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/06/02 02:33 PM
Petvet,<p>This post is starting my day off great! I am glad you are doing this. Yes, it is a leap of faitrh, but face it - isn't everyday a leap of faith???? None of us knows for sure what tomorrow will bring into our lives. You are doing everything you can that is within your control, Petvet. I really believe that you are giving your marriage the best chance to be restored. Your family is in my prayers. And, more importantly, YOU are in my prayers. One must love and believe in "self" before one can be a good partner to another. This experience can do a lot to damage "self" and I do pray for your continued personal recovery, too.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: espoir Re: Tough Love - 02/08/02 04:05 AM
Just stumbled across this conversation and there is so much great advice here. I am praying that things will work out for Petvet.Be strong.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/08/02 02:51 PM
espoir,<p>Thanks for adding your comments. I seem to be the only one responding here. Prayers and support from everyone are welcome here.<p>How are things going for you? I am afraid I am not familiar with your story. <p>Wishing you well, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/09/02 12:31 PM
Hi Espoir! Thank you for your prayers and support. How are things going for you? The advice I have received from this forum has been very helpful. The fact that people are willing to share their experiences is great. Let us know if we can be of help.<p>Petvet
Posted By: espoir Re: Tough Love - 02/10/02 11:41 AM
Hi Petvet and Desiree,
I am doing fairly considering. I don't post alot, and actually right now my M is in recovery so fortunately when I'm on the D/D board it's more out of curiousity than actual experience.
My story is- got married in 1987, and I have 3 kids. D-day was 4/01, found out my H was having an affair w/ a married but childless woman since December. It was before I knew about MB but I plan A'd anyway more or less. There was 3 months of continued contact. Then it ended. My husband had planned to move out but never did. (I told him if he moved out we would have to set up a legal separation). It wasn't exactly withdrawal, but I didn't feel like my H started working on our M until Thanksgiving. In Sept I fell into a
DEEP depression. I've been on anti deps but I'm having some trouble- the meds made me calm but VERY sleepy. I've been weaning off them and now I am a bit speedy and having trouble sleeping- I need to find another med I think.
My husband and I are working on our marriage. It's a struggle but we have alot at stake. I find it really hard to get past the affair. I am grateful that we've preserved our family. But I have lost so much respect for my H. I think time will help heal things. But I'm still haunted. I'm just horrified by the memories of what happened. It makes me so sad, and I feel like something so precious has been lost. Once you see the cruelty of your wayward spouse there is a scar that will be there forever. But I do believe in MB and I hope we can use the principles to improve our marriage. We'll see.
I have to go now, but I'll write back about my Plan A. Everyone does it differently, but I don't think it means being a doormat. I think Plan A can be tough and loving at the same time.
Petvet, I feel terribly sorry about the pain you're going through. I think that you're making good decisions about dropping the divorce action for now.
How are you doing?
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/10/02 01:35 PM
Hi Espoir! Yes, I know how you feel about the not forgeting about what happened or what might have happened with the OP.Steve told me that I should not concentrate on the OP because there's nothing I can do about them. We who have been betrayed must concentrate on making ourselves better and concentrate on what we have control over. I find that the power to be empowered in great. As I said in the past, I want my ship to be a mean, lean running machine. I try to show my fortitude and strength by my actions. Think about Drew Bledsoe of the New England Patriots who was benched after an injury in favor of a new and young QB. He kept is mouth shut and showed tremendous restraint and let his actions do the talking for him.He had garnered so much respect. We have to do the same thing and if out spouses want to be low and dirty, let them. As far as depresiion is concern, see can you get another prescription from your doctor. I am on anti depressent medication as well even though I do not take it as I should. God Bless you.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/10/02 08:44 PM
espoir,<p>Thank you for taking the time to get your story down for us. I am so happy for you that you are in recovery. You sound like a sensible person, espoir. I agree that you should give your marriage every chance to recover, despite your disappointments in your H. In reality, we are all imperfect and each disappoint one another in some way during our lifetimes. If things don't work out, at least you will still have your own self-respect. <p>I can't help about the meds. I never had to take them. I did go through a deep depression myself, but I was able to function and my therapist said he didn't think I needed them. However, Petvet has given good counsel - maybe you need a different kind? <p>Best of luck to you. I try to pray for so many by name, and I will add you to my prayer list. Since I can not remember everyone's name, I always include the "and all my friends at MB" as a catch all, lol! <p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/11/02 11:43 PM
Hi RMA: what value to you place in horoscopes as far as whether choosing mates? The reason I ask this question is that my W has told me that our horoscopes say that we are best as friends and not as lovers. I know it is a bunch of junk. Has anyone tried to justify your relationship through a horoscope or is it simply an excuse?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/12/02 10:20 PM
Petvet,<p>I have read my horoscope in the newspaper off and on for years, but I certainly wouldn't say I live by that at all. We can each "interpret" anything we want to back us up -s in that we shoudl stay together or we should part ways. Your W is looking for justifications right now. I do believe she is still undecided. Just tell her, "Look, Hon, I don't know much about horoscopes, all I can say is that I love you and want us to be together as a happy family." All a BS can do successfully is communicate their desire for marital restoration, and demonstrate that by modifying behavior in whatever ways are important to the WS.<p>Keep your chin up, Desiree
Posted By: espoir Re: Tough Love - 02/14/02 04:52 AM
OK, I have a funny story about this (astrology) not that I really believe in it all...... Also a true horoscope is very personalized- the stuff on websites isn't- how could something be true for 1/12 the world's population? Anyway, don't alot of people marry their best friend?
So.... I had a friend who lived on my street- an astrologer. Five yrs ago, I was pregnant and my GYN wanted to induce labor, told me to come in the next day. I was a little freaked out by "choosing" my baby's birth date so I jokingly said- Well first I have to check w/ my astrologer.
I called my friend and said well, I have to have the baby this week, Tomorrow or Friday- what do you recommend? I thought she would probably say, anyday is OK. Instead, she very seriously told me, wait I'll call you back. Later she told me, you should definitely have the baby tomorrow. She was very strong in her advice that it was the better day. She also told me I'd have an easy labor and voila, my son was born in 4.5 hours, natural childbirth and no episiotomy!
OK flashforward to 2001. I find out about the A. I immediately call my friend. We'd been out of touch for a few yrs, and she'd moved away.
All I told her was my H and I are having some problems in our marriage.
She takes our birth data and sends me a reading (her interpretation) on tape.
in which she says,
Hon, I'm sorry to tell you this, but your H is having an A. She said, It's with a younger woman(True), it wasn't planned, it erupted like a volcano (True), she's from a foreign country (True)and he has grand illusions (True) (at the time my H was trying to palm it off as just a fling but unfortunately my friend was right and he was planning on divorce)
She than added all sorts of information about my H's personality- things like he travels the world but doesn't really get involved with the people and cultures of the places he goes to-
True, my H and I are very different in this regard. And many other comments about him that were eerily accurate considering she doesn't know him well at all, only met him a couple of times.
She also kept stressing- You have always had a problem in your life with accepting the unacceptable... (True) and told me to focus on myself and concentrate on becoming a better person. (Good Plan A advice).She also told me "You can forgive him in your heart and that doesn't mean it won't happen again." I'm still analyzing that comment and trying to decide if my H has really changed.
Anyway I do think alot of astrology is hogwash but hmmm this friend of mine is really gifted in that regard.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/14/02 11:47 AM
Espoir: You got me thinking now. Food for thought.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/15/02 12:13 AM
Hi RMA: Well, as I told a few days ago, I dismissed my legal against my wife. Well, when I informed her today of what I had done, she was furious. I had sent her flowers today and two cards. We were surposed to go out to dinner on Saturday. Now, she has told me that she does not want to go out on Saturday nor does she want anymore cards from me. I am not surprise by her reaction. I told her I am doing what is necessary to restore my marriage. I am showing her that I am serious. She told me that she wanted to go ahead with the divorce and resented what I had done. I have done my best.<p>Down in Atl.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/15/02 12:58 AM
espoir,<p>Interesting story. I do klnow what you mean. Sometimes when reading my horoscope in the paper, I think - that is dead on. All during my exH's affair, HIS horoscope keep saying he would have a change of residence and marital staus. HMPF! Turned out all true. But, I still look at his occasionally, and now 2 years and marriage to the OW later, it is saying he will have a change of residence and marital status. HAHA! Wonder if it will come true or they just recycle those horoscopes!! Good for a laugh, anyway, 'cause a recent one of mine in the newspaper said I would be giving birth to a child in the near future and that sure isn't going to happen! Take care, friend.<p>Petvet, Oh, you just have the CONTRARY type of wife. Can't win no matter WHAT you do or don't do, right? Listen, just DON'T mention it again. If it comes up, tell her in a quiet, calm voice that YOU don't want the divorce and felt compelled to withdraw the petition, because that is not what is really in your heart. Leave it at that. After all, if you don't want it, you should not file. If she is so adamant, let her file. I'll bet she will threaten it, but won't do it. You know, Petvet, I often think these contrary ways are test by WS to measure the TRUE depth of your love for them. As long as you have love for your W and a desire for reconciliation, and no legal reason to pursue the divorce, then simply don't.<p>You are really doing a super job, Petvet. You are handling your emotions much, much better than I did. The flowers and cards are so nice. She may be angry at you now, but these kidnesses are seldom forgotten, although rarely acknowledged. Keep true to YOURSELF, my friend!<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/15/02 06:25 AM
Thank you, Thank you, RMA. I got up in the middle of the night to view your response. I am going all out showing my love. I sent her 20 tulips multicolored to her job. Her co-workers were fighting her for the box according to her. She called and thanked me. Now, after realizing that I dismissed my suit, she wants no cards nor dinner at one of Atl's finest restaurants.She wants the good stuff but does not want me. Despite your optimism, I believe she will refile next week. If she does this, my respect for her will go out the door. I think my desire for love from her will go as well. Her action will say alot about her. Would you hold off sending her anything (cards for example) any time soon? The fact that I have done everything humanly possible except putting a bullet through my head has made me feel good about myself. The ball is in her court. Speaking of horoscopes, a couple of days ago I looked at my stars and it said that whatever trials I am experiencing will make me a better person in the future. Yes, I am a better person. I see it and feel it. I think my parents have a new found respect for me by what I am doing with their grandson. My major concern is my son. He is having major problems at school. He is not happy at all. Mom calls him off and on. She may call the house to obtain info about something but does not ask to speak to her son. Several times, he has refused to speak to her. Even though it is hard on me, I keep saying to myself that I am doing my best and that I can only be responsible for my actions not others. That last statement has done wonders for me. I am going to do whatever is necessary to make son happy without making him into a spoil brat. I want him to be an asset to society not a liability. <p>I HAVE DONE EVERYTHING HUMANLY POSSIBLE.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/15/02 01:15 PM
Petvet, I just have one minute. Many People file Aand the divorce never goes through, so don't think that is the end if your wife does indeed file. You know, you say she wants the good stuff only - OK, that is SOOOOOOOOO typical of the WS. After all, when they are engaged in these triangles, isn';t it just about getting the best of BOTH worlds??? Yes, it is a selfish time right now.<p>I go back to what I have said all along. If you love her and want reconciliation, then let her know and do nothing else. If she files, don't acknowledge it. If she brings it up and forces a conversation, tell her that you love her and don't want it. Leave it at that. <p>Your son's situation makes me ultra sad. Do remind him that his Mom does love him, and that she is just going through a rough time right now. Every child deserves TWO parents to love and 2 parents who love him/her.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/22/02 11:49 AM
Hi RMA! I hope things are going well. I'm doing OK. As I predicted, my W file a petition against me. She said that was the only way she was going to get this divorce finalized. As you know, I have done everything in my power to reconcile. On the positive side, I don't know what else I can do.Things that I was holding back on legally, I guess I will have to follow through on since I am now defending myself.<p>I don't know what else to say.<p>Thanks.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/22/02 01:17 PM
Petvet,

Sorry that she has filed. But, as you know from reading other posts here, that may or may not mean a thing. Yes, you do need to get your own legal affairs in order, so do meet with your attorney. The most important thing is to protect your son's interests. <p>You are in my thoughts and prayers, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/22/02 04:27 PM
Thank you RMA. Please read this in your spare time. I do not want you losing your job over this.<p>I'm going to schedule another appointment with Steve, but I do not know if there is anything I can do at this point. I know you have said twice that her filing may or not mean anything. Granted I am going to read more through posts, but I do not understand what you mean by that. My W appears to be really serious. She wants out of this as soon as possible. At this point, I do not know how I can implement Plan A under the circumstances. Yes, my son is the #1 priority. Believe it or not, things are going well for me outside of the marriage. My son has had a good week at school so far but of course he misses his mom.<p>Thanks for sharing yourself(time and prayers). May God bless you.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/23/02 02:37 PM
Petvetr,<p>No, I will not jeopardize my job, which is why I am limited as to time on-line. <p>What I mean, and you will find out by reading others' posts is this: sometimes a person files and then changes their mind. After all - didn't you do this? Look, for some WS - not all - the idea of freedome is most important. Once you step back and leave the path open to her freedom, she may find she no longer craves it as much. <p>Petvet, your W may pursue this divorce to the end. You defintely need to act as if that is the case, in terms of your legal and financial rights and the custody of your son. But, you don't have to be the "driver". <p>No matter how things end up, your W will have to look at this current period and see that she is driving this entire situation to whatever conclusion it ends up with. You have not mentioned in awhile - is her A still active? Is she planning on asking for custody of your son? I am suspecting the affair is still active, as it is the best explanation about why a WS wants "freedom" in these scenarios. <p>Again, you are doing a super job at being a good H to your W. Yes, I agree - call Steve. He is surely no miracle worker, but he can help you to see and do the right things to put you in the best position for recovery possible. That, my friend, is ALL you can do.<p>I am so very happy that you are doing well in other aspects of your life. And that your son is adjusting better. I guess this is obvious, but are you really a vet?<p>Take care, friend. We are all here for you. Yes, and please do call Steve.
Later, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/23/02 03:45 PM
No RMA, I am not a vet;however, I do exhibit in dogs shows (Westminister as an example).It's not my living but a hobby.In response to whether my W is still involve in an A, I personally think there is still some contact of some sort. I think the other person is waiting on the sidelines because my W is in a big hurry to in this marriage.In her interrogatory response to my attorney, she says that her relationship is no more than just a co-worker friendship. She says that she has not had any contact with him since 2001, and that she does not know his home address nor phone number. I know for a fact that she knows phone numbers and address, so that the reason why I know that something must still be there because she is still trying to hide him. She has stated that she wants joint legal custody. Check this out, she states that the reason why this marriage is irretrievably broken is that we have grown apart. I like how she used the word "we" instead of "I". <p>Before I dropped my legal action, I could slow my attorney down, now, I have to go full speed ahead to protect me and my son. You are right my W has driven this and she will have to endure the consequences that can last thirteen to seventeen years. <p>I'm dealing with it.Son is having trouble sleeping at night. I am going to have him see a counselor next week. He is doing his best.
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 02/23/02 08:10 PM
I've stumbled across MB in the past, and now I'm back here again, and have found this thread extremely helpful in my own plight.<p>I've been married for almost 5 years(11-22-97), married when my wife was pregnant, had another child in 1999, and since have been through many struggles with my younger wife(she's now 23). From her wanting a paternity test for our oldest daughter, to her having a one-night stand then wanting a divorce(about 1 1/2 ago), separating for a bit, to currently telling me she does not love me, doesn't show any emotions toward me, and leaving me. She left 3 weeks ago from tomorrow(Sunday). Our daughters(4 and 2) are staying with me nightly since she has not worked in 2-3 years and is staying with a friend down the street. She has been completely nasty to me, and will not even look me in the face, nor even say 'I want a divorce'. She will only say that she's not happy, and wants nothing to do with me. She is being so selfish now to the point that she wants our girls to stay with her, solely because she wants them too, not taking into consideration that they have no beds to sleep in. Currently, they are with me nightly, sleep in their own beds/rooms, then my W watches them during the day while I am at work(she also watches her friends son during this time), then I pick them up after work, and we go home.
In the past three weeks, I have seen and heard quite some bad things, from going to drop the girls off in the morning, knocking, got no answer, then walking in(the guy that owns the house is my friend for years, as well as the girl my W is staying with that rents i've known for 15 years, before my wife met her), and seeing my friend(guy that owns the house), and her waking from the same bed. I think that is just atrocious, especially as I had both our daughters standing in front of me.
I have also seen chat logs of her chatting from the few days before she left with the guy that lives in the basement of the house shes in now, with numerous things said that I couldn't even read all of.
Needless to say, I am in a position not unlike petvet, and am also dealing with the selfishness and pure hurt as a result. One the hardest things for me is trying to understand how she can not care.<p>We have been through a lot together, but throughout it all, we have both always told each other how much we loved each other and how much we would try before even coming close to discussing a divorce. We have tried many things, but it seems we have gotten comfortable too fast and reverted back to the 'old way'. I am just flabberghasted at how she can walk away. I love and care for her so much and it hurts for her to say dead to my face that 'our marriage was a joke', and 'i don't love you'.<p>[ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: furrymitn ]</p>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/24/02 01:03 AM
Furrymitn, I know how you feel. I was told the same thing that the marriage was a mistake, etc. When these like this occur, your W is very self centered. I'm like you; I cannot understand how someone could put someone else ahead of their spouse and children. Have you read any of the Harley's books? If not, I would recommend reading "Surviving An Affair" and "His and Her Needs". The hurt that a BS experiences is tremendous. I would be concerned whether their is anything going on with your wife and other people while your children are there during the day.<p>Stay strong and pray for God's intervention into your marriage. May God be with you.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/24/02 03:22 PM
furrymitn,<p>Glad that this post is helping you. Of course, I am really sorry that we have to have anybody else join this site. At least you have a place to come and get the support you will need to gfo through this most difficult to times. <p>I do NOT like the idea of your kids seeing your W get out of bed with another guy. Please do approach her and perhaps say something like: Please make sure that you are out of bed by the time the kids get here. I think this might be confusing for them to see. <p>The point would be to get your request across in a non-judgemental way, and this would hopefully get her to comply. Perhaps she just hasn't thought about what the kids might think. Well, at least I will give her the benefit of the doubt and hope that she just hasn't thought about it. Please ask her to join you in counselling. I think if you can get the WS involved in counselling as early as possible, it is very, very helpful. Please do ask her.<p>As for what she wants in terms of the kids - YOU do the right thing for your kids, and all will come out as best is possible in these types of situations. Try to keep them upmost in your mind. I have found that trying to do the right thing is something you never regret, even if things don't work out like you had hoped or planned. Keep your chin up, furrymitn.<p>Petvet,
What kind of dogs do you show? Do you raise and show them or show only?<p>I really liked your reply to furrymitn. You are already showing strength and growth. It takes from your own inner reserves to be able to reach out and help another in need. You have definitely grown in spirit and in strength.<p>Yes, I imagine now there will be no holding back on the part of the attorney. It is amazing how your W lied about the OM's address and telephone number. Oh well, I wonder if she fools herself with the lies she's told? No matter. Keep focused on how to best handle your son and protect him and yourself finacially. A counseling session will likely do him good, poor little guy. I know this is hard on you both, but at least you know that you are there each day and can be the stabilizing force in your son's life each and every day. The bond between you is strengthening ever more, Petvet.<p>Wishing you both a peaceful Sunday. Desiree
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 02/24/02 05:23 PM
Forgive me for butting in, but I couldn't help but notice how after you started your plan B, your W started acting nicely towards you. But now, she's back to her belligerent self prior to leaving your home.<p>I suspect that OM is back in her life and she's once again deep in 'the fog'.<p>Since she has filed for divorce, you should consider going for full custody of your son. I say this because your W is very immature and her erratic behavior and selfishness does not inspire confidence that she will put your son's interests first.<p>My xW was(she may be still) a compulsive liar and sexual addict that cared nothing about leaving me and our daughters for the weekends to have her flings with other men. I pleaded with her to think of what her behavior was doing not only to me but to our daughters, and she just sadistically laughed in my face. I could handle the fact that she cheated on me but to care nothing about what she was doing to our daughters wellbeign?, no sir that to me was the last straw. I contacted an attorney thru a fathers rights organization that had a great track record in obtaining full child custody for BH's like me. She contacted my city's social services department and filed a complaint of neglect against my wife. A case worker was assigned to my case and after investigating our situation, filed a report to the court that my then W, was not fulfilling her parental obligations. The report was used by my attorney to illustrate what an unfit parent my then W was. Thank God the judge read the report because she agreed that the best interests of our daughters lay with me. My xW was shocked to say the least, she did not beleive that her behavior had been documented by the social services department and filed. She thought that she was going to take me to the cleaners and in turn it was she that got taken (although that was never my intention).<p>Call me cynical but I beleive that MB principles work best if the marriage has not been subject to an A. After an A, they seem to have mixed results. But one thing I do beleive is that as long as you do not have any expectations from your WW, and you keep in mind that plan A is more for your benefit in a future relationship, then you can become a stronger person from the present hellish situation.<p>Best of luck and God bless you and your son.<p>Joe
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/24/02 10:17 PM
Joe,<p>Thanks for adding your two cents - you certainly are welcome to comment. I definitely agree with you. Ultimatley, it takes TWO to make a successful relationship - whether it is a new relationship or rebuilding a marriage after an affair. One can change the dynamics to bring the impetus to change to the other person, but both have to desire to make the relationship a "go."<p>You were smart about the tack you took concerning the legal advice and then ending up with custody. Yes, your ex certainly wasn't thinking clearly in that she didn't even realize child protection would document her errant and neglectful behavior.
Petvet and furrymitn both need to be aware of how your circumstances were handled, since they both have young kids involved. Thanks for chiming in with good, solid advice.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 02/24/02 11:40 PM
Sorry this post is so jumpy(subject to subject), but that's where my mind is currently, I don't really have a clear mind when it comes to her.<p>Following this thread, especially being able to see the "story" as it goes, and has come to for petvet. My head is in a better place somewhat now. and petvet know that you are not alone. I too have been through the thoughts of self-hurt and disappearing, but have the smiling faces of my daughters to give me all the reasons i need to continue no matter the outcome.<p>My struggles with my W are on a day to day basis, yesterday she and I had a very decent talk on the phone, I basically laid out all my feelings, and what I thought about the possible divorce(noone has filed yet). Basically that I love and care for her, and don't see any reasons that we can't reconcile and mend our relationship. That I understand the things that she was unhappy with, and those things also were on my mind, and they can be changed - it really boils down to communication. But she says she feels like she's doing the right thing, and she may regret it later, but will continue to do what she needs to do to be able to get a car, apartment, job. In our 4+ years, I was always the main provider, and she wanted to stay at home. She's looking at getting a minimum wage job, and hasn't even thought about how she can get by on that. <p>We have really been butting heads on our girls. She watches them daily while I work at her friends house, which is ok, but it's not an ideal environment, but she wants the girls to stay the night sometimes, and without any real place for them to sleep - my oldest would sleep in a borrowed bed with my W, my youngest on a mattress on the floor. I don't think this is appropriate, they have their own rooms, their own beds, their own stuff at their _home_. If my W decides to go off to her own thing, I don't think the girls should suffer. She disagrees and basically says, I want them with me. To me this is completely selfish.
I am having a harder and harder time dealing with her without being condecending to her. She just doesn't seem to get it. I feel she needs to grow up. And I don't think our girls should be dragged through the lessons she needs to learn. That being said, I also have a extremely hard time with saying no to her when it comes to the girls, I would NEVER deny the girls to their mother, nor their mother to the girls, but should I if I feel it's better for the girls in the long run?<p>Then today she calls, asks if the girls could spend the night, I just asked her what she would tell me if the situation was reversed. I did my best to be sincere and not judgemental. She told me to f off and hung up. I waited about 5 minutes and called back to see why she was mad at me for something she agreed with. She just told me she didn't want to talk to me, and hung up again. I felt ok with it, since I think I handled it well.
later on, W called, to say that the girls were yelling to come home, I said ok. I thought this was kind of wierd. Her tone of voice was odd, almost like she wanted to talk. I didn't say anything, just asked if she was bringing them home early, she said no, I said ok, see you then. It was like she wanted to talk or something, but I wasn't ready for that, just let it go. Should I have waited to see if she'd open up? I still trying to figure out exactly how to handle myself. I want this to work, but I know it will be some time before anything is possible. I want to give her space to realize what she's giving up(me, family, home, etc), and be kind to her to show her the things I've realized are important for us to be together(attention, housework, etc), but it's very difficult to not react to her nastiness. I feel like if I don't react, then I'm letting my emotions go away.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/25/02 12:01 PM
Oh Furrymitn, reading your tale makes me feel like I am looking into a mirror.What's so odd about all our situations is our WS are acting in similar ways. Now, I see why the Harley's and other marriage support people have been able to make a living off of these types of situations. The human dynamics are the same regardless of what body contains it. RMA, remember a couple of months ago, you told me that a defining moment for you was you looked at your ex-H and realized the sorry state that he had become; as a result, you said the enough is enough. What brought your statement to mine was recently someone said to me, "you do not need all that negativity in your life". Yesterday was a case in point, I was speaking to W about something I thought was a rather simple subject matter about our child but she took my concern about my child and turn it into a negative attack on me. I was dumbfounded. After we hung up, I had the feeling that this woman hates my guts. I really mean it. I get the impression that she feels I am Mr. Goodytwoshoes and she can't stand it. What brings this into focus even more is yesterday morning I was listening to Dr. Federick K.C. Price (Pastor from LA) and he was talking about the choice to have a pleasant life and a difficult life. He says contrary to popular belief, we have a choice. If we follow the bible and rules and regulations and from the mistakes of others, our life will be less stressful. This comment he made hits home,"The way of the transgressor is hard". I have been doing a lot of examination as to whether I overlooked signs while dating that could have save me from this mess. There were two things that came to mine but I thought they were adressed by me and her. The maturity issue is very important. I think that was my downfall in her. Maturity and fantasy were the knives in my back. I would have never had a child with this woman if I thought my marriage was going this route. Yes Furrymitn, it takes two who are committed. I have learned a lot. A stress free life (As much as humanly possible)is my goal. I hope my wife comes around but I doubt it. It is the web of the devil.<p>PS RMA, think "Snow Dogs". <p>Thanks guys.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/26/02 01:21 AM
furrymitn,<p>As for your W's changing emotions - comes with the territory. As hard as it is to remember, do know that your W is going through her own angst. You need to take care of yourself, because she is not offering any care or protection to you or your feelings right now. So, if you didn't feel like being there when you talked, you didn't feel like it. So, don't beat yourself up over one incident. you did great to try to explain your feelings about not wanting to disrupt your girls' lives by having them sleep here and there. It is important for you two to get along, even when you disagree. Sounds like you are doing a great Plan A. I hope your W will see the care you are offering her and your children. I will keep you and your family in my prayers.<p>Petvet, snow dogs - Malamutes or Huskies, perhaps? Did you get that appointment for your son with the counselor? Is he sleeping any better?<p>Desiree
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 02/26/02 01:20 PM
Thank you for the prayers.
I have a grim outlook for a good outcome, but I'm doing what I can to try until I can't try anymore. Feel so much like just giving up, but i know I'd regret it if I don't pull my all into this. Now it seems when I tell her my feelings it falls on deaf ears, so I probably will not do that anymore, except in little bits. Two weeks, until after my oldest daughters b-day is what I give it until I don't think I'll be able to be the lost puppy. Then I think i'll have to go to plan b, and possibly sit down with her to draw some lines. She currently has a key to our house, and has made it known that she will come and go as she pleases. I would like my privacy.
This is now my home, no longer hers by her own choice. Hopefully she'll see that.<p>I have an appointment with a counselour tomorrow, hopefully that will give me a little more strength. As well as attending church for the first times in my life.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/26/02 04:58 PM
RMA: Are you a dog person? You seem to know the breeds. You lefted out the samoyeds. I have mals. Son is hanging in there, and I have an appointment for him on Thursday. How would you deal with the negativity from my W? I think she hates my guts or at least has it in for me. I am trying to stay away from her at all cost which includes speaking as little to her as possible. I don't need the negativity from her. Is this common behavior from a WS based on your experience?<p>Furrymitn: Church will certainly help you spiritually. Reading the bible will reinforce your church experience.
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 02/26/02 09:48 PM
Talk about a heart wrencher. W calls me a bit ago, asked me to go out to dinner, myself, her, and our girls. But then retracts it and says, 'no, i don't want you to get the wrong idea'. That just tears me up. I think it's important for the girls to see some type of togetherness, but i'm having a tough time telling myself to keep the best of intentions in mind, while expecting the least. man oh man.<p>
I've got a counseling appt. tomorrow, I invited her to go 2 days ago, still waiting to see if she will attend. I haven't pressured her or anything, but I'm trying to tell myself that if she goes, not to expect it to be for the best of intentions on her part..<p>What should I do? Should I be hoping hoping hoping, only to be continually let down by her lack of caring?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/27/02 12:29 AM
Petvet, <p>I love dogs - have a mutt, but have always loved the huskies, etc. Also I am particularly fond of German Shepherds.<p>Aas for the negativity, just stay away from it as much as you can.<p>BOTH PETVET AND FURRYMITN: I think both of your W's are projecting on you. That means they are trying to find some "bad" things about you to transfer their own guilt and anger onto. <p>Petvet, certainly your W is angry at you, which makes no sense. You are trying desperately to give her the room she needs and yet, also you have been exceedingly loving towards her. I think her anger to you is just an outlet of her anger at HERSELF. <p>Furrymitn, all you can do is what you have done - invite her to join you in saving the marriage that belongs to you BOTH. It belongs to two people and it will eventually take two people to save it. As for your hoping, I can only share my own perspective. Hope as long as you have love for your W and a desire to reconcile, but try not to expect it to happen. Only you can read the signs and only you know your W the best to interpret her words, feelings and actions. At first, it is true that you can not trust anything they say, as the WS is usually in such a tizzy themselves. But after a period of time, watch your W's ACTIONS. To me they mean more than all the words in the world. In your heart, in time, you will begin to know what is real and what is not real.<p>I am so glad you are going to counseling, furrymitn, and to church. Truly, my faith is what carried me through the worst of times, and helped me to recover as well as I have done.<p>Wishing you both a peaceful evening, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/27/02 11:56 AM
Furymitn:Hoping has been my biggest problem during this ordeal. I've tried to pin hopes on every word spoken, every facial expression, etc. Through all the hoping, I still have nothing to hold onto. My hope has faded. It hurts me to say this but it is the truth. What really brought my realization on was the fact that she lied on some court papers about some simple questions I think in order to protect the OP. I think she is too far gone now and the fact that after I dropped my legal case she turned right around and filed against me. Thise two things have dash any of my hopes.It is a horrible feeling.To make things even worst, she is still treating me nasty and my son is having many problems with the situation. As my mom said, you can only take things at face value. I would not try to put sugar on something that's really hot sauce. I have been beaten up so much I just cannot take the beating anymore. I am so love drained I'm not sure whether I will be able to love and trust anyone again. She has really kicked my butt for four years. To have a woman tell you that she no longer wants your cards and flowers is a stab right in the heart. I have done everything in my power except put a bullet through my head. I'm serious. Everything from A to Z I have done to no avail. You are going to have to decide how much of a beating you are going to take from your W. From the way you are talking, I'm not sure your threshold is very deep. Do your best but it takes two. You cannot do it by yourself. You know I even looked at horoscope the other day and it said that my wife and I could make a relationship go but it will take flexibilty and work and a lot of give and take.It also said that she would have trouble settling down. WHAT CAN I SAY?
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 02/27/02 02:08 PM
Well, W and I took the kids to dinner last night. things were ok, except for the little bit of tenseness in the air. I told her I was getting out of work early, and asked if she would mind if I picked up the girls early. She told me no way, that it was her time(even though it's my day with the girls). I just said, hey look, i'm asking you. I'm not telling you. She seemed a little better after that, but things weren't well.
I have my counseling appt today, I had invited her to attend with me, but waited until she told me yes, instead of pressuring her. I emailed her last night late night, just said <p>"hey i feel bad that things didn't go well tonight, im not apologizing, but hopefully we can try again and just agree not to talk about anything thats bothering us. I'm also wondering if you're going to go to my couseling appt, i'd really like it if you did, and I have to let the babysitter know."<p>She responded back "NO THANKS, i know after tonight i know that it will never work between us".<p>How is that fair? That is extremely depressing. I didn't go into the dinner expecting anything. MAybe she's using it as an excuse.
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 02/27/02 03:00 PM
ugh. Just spoke with her, trying to make her understand how hard this is on our girls. she just doesn't get it. In the beginning, I didn't mind so much the girls going back and forth everyday, but now it's a month later and nothings changing. W hasn't got a job, car, or even beds for them to sleep in. She showing no promise as a provider. I don't want the girls there, I want them in a stable environment where they can prosper. I don't think I'll be able to take much more of W's 'oh, too bad you messed that all up, it just means we cant be together'.
I'm steadily losing hope, but on the upside, some things don't tend to be so heartwrenching anymore, still feel it, but not as hard, no anxiety attacks anymore.<p>She must be deep in the fog not even to be able to step up and take the responsibility of leaving. I try telling her the girls shouldn't have to suffer because she left, she gets very immature and taunts back.<p>I'm starting to feel a little more in control. Lawyers I've talked with in the last weeks have advised me to hold out a little, make efforts, that I won't have much trouble getting the best for the girls. Which I think is at their home(no matter if it was me there or not).<p>I definately feel its time to move on to plan bish.. no contact unless neccessary. Anyone have a plan bish letter example? I want to sit down with her and draw some lines that I think should be followed, etc(like her not barging into the house unannounced anymore), but I want to give her a letter before that so she can at least think about some of those things.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/27/02 11:41 PM
FURRYMITN,<p>How long has it been that you and your W are separated? I think you allude to one month in your previous post. If that is the case, you might want to stay in Plan A longer. Plan A will help you to learn how to be a good mate and also help you to establish a good "track record" of new behaviors with your W. Plan B is when you just can't go anymore - the affair is continuing in your face, you are losing all love for your W, etc. Plan B is hard to implement with kids and is drastic in a sense, so you need to be ready before you go there.<p>As for Plan B letters, there are some out there. I am not exactly sure where. Someone else, please provide the links if you know where Plan B example letters are. Thanks,<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/28/02 10:51 AM
Furrymitn: Yes, Plan A is hard to implement with kids. I have a child and it's almost impossible to carry out. With plan a (at least in my situation), I feel as though I am treading water. I am supposed to talk with Steve tommorrow about my situation.<p>RMA: My son had a very bad day in school yesterday. It is obvious that he is unhappy and is busting out with rage. I think my wife has really screwed up big time.My mother is very upset with the situation with my son. He goes to see a counselor today.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/28/02 10:52 AM
RMA: How do I eliminate some of my pages on my messgae board?<p>Thanks.
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 02/28/02 07:48 PM
I think I was a little at my wits end previously(read: overwhelmed). After my appt with a counselor, I feel so much better. And a long talk with a friend that is totally on the outside was another eye-opener. I am going to do my best to plan A, but with minimal contact. I'm not going to go out of my way to contact her, unless it's something needed.
My head is at least in a better place. Going to continue with the counselor, see what I can do to get myself(ME ME ME), going strong.
ah, I have a new focus.
RMA, thanks for the minor 'shake-up'. It's the same thing my counselor and friend said. It hasn't been very long(in the big picture). I tend to get a grim outlook and pessimistic on a moments notice.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/01/02 01:11 AM
Petvet,<p>Sorry, I am not as techno-saavy as others here. I don't know how to eliminate pages. You can edit your old posts, however. Click on the pencil on a particular post, and then you can edit only that particular post.<p>Sorry your son is having a rough time of it. I just am not surprised. How can your W expect him to underrstand why she needed to move away from him?? All I can say is to support that you are doing the right things. You really are, Petvet.
How are YOU hanging in there since she is pushing the divorce??<p>furrymitn,<p>Glad things are better for you since you went to counselling. I always felt better after my sessions. I went weekly for almost a year. I also did counsel a brief time with Steve H, but really we had nothing to work with. Yes, you do need to focus on yourself. One of the manifestations of betrayal is that the BS almost always portrays their sadness, grief and other traumatic expressions of the affair. The "kicker" is that these emotional outpourings almost always drive the WS further away from the BS. It just makes our situations even harder to deal with. Then, if you focus as much energy as most do in trying to restore your marriage, all you do is give and give and hold so much back because you can't deal with it and preocess it right now, and your spouse can't handle you dealing with it, etc. You just end up spent - 100% spent emotionally and often physically diminished, too.<p>Plan A at least lets you focus on positive things. How to be a good mate; how to be a good friend. Think less about whether your W desrves a good mate or a good friend, right now. Focus more on learning to BE one. Treat yourself and your daughters well. They will look to you as the stable parent in their lives. This is so confusing for them, too. It is hard to focus on yourself and positive aspects of your life when you are hurting so much and mostly just wanting answers to WHY????? But even if you had all the answers, the events have happened and they can't be taken away. <p>Try to keep focused forward, furrymitn. Your daughters need you and you deserve happiness, too. I have your family in my prayers,<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/01/02 11:15 AM
RMA: How am I doing? Not very well. I have a lot of frustration and anger again. Maybe because the divorce process in on hold until I get served papers so my attorney cannot do anything or I am just having a tough time of it. I have a session with Steve today but I do not expect much. I don't think there's anything to work with. I really really don't want to deal with W. My mom is giving me a hard time because my W is not doing right by our son. She does not call son when she has told son she will call, etc. How do they expect me to explain why she won't do this or that? Yesterday, I took son to counselor. It was very sad to the point of me crying. He gets very little of the situation and he appears to be in no man's land. He talked more than the counselor expected. He is having difficulty sleeping, etc. No one outside of you guys and my counselors understand my pain and my son's pain. Unless Steve can offer some sort of hope, I just want my attorney to get as much as possible for my son and I from this marriage and to bring this thing to an end. I HATE HER; I ABSOLUTELY HATE WHAT SHE HAS DONE TO MY FAMILY. I HATE HER; THAT'S JUST WHERE I AM RIGHT NOW. The more I see my son have difficulty the more I hate her. <p>That's just where I am right now.
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 03/01/02 02:47 PM
W called me yesterday, TOLD me that our girls were staying the night with her. NO discussion, nothing, just told me. I never called back, but waited until end of day to stop by and talk with her. I am so proud of myself for keeping my composure. Told her she was forcing me to take action if they were not home by 7:30p. Before I walked out, I kissed the girls, and it broke my heart when both girls started crying, saying they wanted to go home, they wanted to leave with daddy. I could have died. W basically yelled at them, told them NO!. I had to run out, I wanted to just snatch them up right there, and run with them. Later as I reflected, my feelings turned to rage, and I can't believe she is doing this to our children. I can't believe she is basically putting them in between us and almost using them as a proxy to hurt me. How can anyone in their right mind USE thier children and willingly hurt them, especially when it's not in their best interests. I also had asked her about the guy that's living in the basement, said there was big thoughts on whether something was going on between her and him, and I didn't want the girls around that, not now. She never defended herself, wouldn't even swear on it. <p>I am really starting to get some anger towards her. But I still have the feeling of reconsiling. I still want her, our family. But how can I knowingly put my girls in that environment? <p>petvet: your outrage is not unwarranted, I know how you feel.<p>She ended up calling me at 7:24p, and saying the girls were ready to come home. hehe. felt better. Either something I said made sense, or she got scared with me saying I'd have to take action.(I never specified legal or otherwise)
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/01/02 11:30 PM
Petvet,<p>I can totally identify with your anger and extreme feelings of hate. I did go through a phase of feeling that way myself, although it was very brief (the extreme hatred part). I think it is normal to hate that which threatens your family and is literally ripping it apart. I am so glad you have this place to come to - a safe place to vent those awful feelings. I truly do wish I could take this pain away from you. Do your best to "feel" your emotions and then do your best to try to release them. Acknowledge the feelings and then tell yourself you WON'T be beated down. You WILL survive this, no matter what is the outcome. It is hard to be in a marraige where the mates are not partners and really just pulling against each other. Know that we CARE about both your and your son's feelings. I know you have to wait to be served, and just try to remain calm. You are on a ride you never signed up for; but you are on the rollercoaster nonetheless.<p>Prayers and hugs, Petvet.<p>furrymitn,<p>Well, too bad she wanted to take the girls despite their crying and wanting to go with you. Look, your W is not one to fight for anything that is hard. The girls wanted to go home, and each time they do, even though she wants them to be with her, she sure does not fight too hard to try to get them to stay. Nope, she uses the easy way out and just calls furrymitn to the rescue - come and get the girls.<p>I see this as a sign of immaturity in your W. How old is she? I kinow you are frustrated by her lack of care and concern for others. Obviously, she is very self-focused right now. There is not much you can do to change that, either, furrymitn. It is almost a unilateral thing - few WS's put much time and effort and energy into their family and their children when they are knee deep into an affair. It is just a time of "self" and "it's my turn" for the WS. Don't expect her to be concerned with what is "right" and what is "fair" for eveyone else at this time, 'cause it "ain't gonna happen" right now.<p>My advice is to have boundaries, and be as nice as possible. No matter how things end up with the marriage, you guys are still going to be the parents of those girls and have to interact on certain levels for their benefit. Pray for everything and expect nothing. It is early for you, furrymitn, and time will tell how things will end up. Continue to concentrate on yourself as a person and your role as Father to the girls. None of those efforts will be wasted, no matter how things turn out with your W.<p>Prayers and hugs to you, too.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/02/02 12:53 PM
RMA: Thanks for your concern. I spoke with Steve yesterday and he helped a lot. He told me to keep my interactions with her strictly business and try not to get personal with her. That's pretty much what I have been doing lately. It's safe for me at this distance. Since she does not want to be part of the team (our marriage), my son and I have to move on without her. I don't want nor do I need anyone who is not committed to the team and want to work hard. That's why the committment part of marriage or any kind of team situation is so important. Think of a football or job related team and I know that all of us can relate when there is someone who does not want to put forth the effort, it brings the team down. I am going to let my attorney handle things going forward. My attorney is vicious(I am serious);she scares me and I am her client. Steve told me that in between now and D day, W will have a number of reality check situation (she is in store for many reality checks she has not bargained for)that she will think things through(marriage or divorce). Outside of that the situation will take its course to the end. Last night when W came to pick son up, she told me that she wanted to speak to me when our son is not around. Granted I don't know what she wants to talk about, but I am not settling anything at this point and I am going for custody of my son. Period end of story. Yes RMA, I will be nice and respectful but ALL BUSINESS.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/02/02 03:17 PM
Petvet,<p>Thank you for calling Steve. He can help you by being the unbiased advisor. I do agree with all that he told you. Ultimately, it will take TWO people to make a marriage. You have done so very much to try to get her to turn around and see you as a viable mate/partner, Petvet. The rest truly is up to her.<p>I am glad you have a strong lawyer. Because, if you don't get things settled in your favor now, chances are unlikely you will get them later. I do agree about you going for custody of your son, too. She left and perhaps she hasn't realized that is abandonment on her part. I am sure that she loves your son, too, but she certainly isn't displaying him as her primary concern right now.<p>I am now going to suggest something else to you. Think about getting a personal counselor, too, Petvet. You will need some extra support. Even wqhen people divorce, they generally still do interact for the sakes of the children. This does not always work out well, either. Games are played, even aftert divorce. So, even though some things are settled, so much conflict will still ensue, because you and her will still have different agendas.<p>I am proud of you, Petvet. You should be proud of yourself, too. You have given your W every chance and done a really good Plan A, in becoming a better person. Steve is right, though. When reality starts to sink in, your W is going to have some big home truths staring her in the face. It really isn't over until it is.<p>Try to have a good weekend, friend.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/05/02 11:05 AM
Hi RMA, well I was served papers yesterday. She says that the marriage is irretrievably broken with noi hope of reconciliation. She is just trying to get out of this marriage anyway she can. She will regret this because she will get leveled by a ton of bricks. I am having no mercy. Recently, I saw her and just looked her in the face and said to myself, do I really want this thing? She looked like a wreck. Then I thought about what you had said to me about that defining moment when you looked at your ex and said enough of this. I don't know why that statement has stuck to my mind and has such meaning but it does. I think it may represent an overall assessment of where you are in relation to your spouse and whether you want to be associated with such a creep. Maybe that's it. My spirit is and has been on the upswing. Even more importantly, bad company forms useless habits. Maybe we don't want someone with all this baggage and trials
and tribulations.<p>By the way, how are things going socially with you? Just checking to make sure you are still happy. You have so much to give. Just the thought of having that love return feel so good just thinking about it. I have not had my love returned to me in four years. The thought makes me sad and bitter. Most woman would have been please with my plan A, but I guess her interest lie elsewhere. She has thrown her duty water (me) out the door.<p>Take care.
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 03/05/02 03:45 PM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Roll Me Away:
<strong>furrymitn,<p> Look, your W is not one to fight for anything that is hard. ~Nope, she uses the easy way out and just calls furrymitn to the rescue - come and get the girls.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I agree. I've always been there to pick up the pieces, and that's part of what my counselor wants to work on with me, to stop 'enabling' her to do things w/o consequence. Just knowing that my behavior has/had something to do with it has helped me. I'm doing a little more to 'stick by my guns' and not let her use me, but without making it seem like only my opinion matters. I'm trying. Think that plan A stuff is sinking in, with a little mix of plan Bish(distancing).<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
I see this as a sign of immaturity in your W. How old is she? I kinow you are frustrated by her lack of care and concern for others. Obviously, she is very self-focused right now. There is not much you can do to change that, either, furrymitn. It is almost a unilateral thing - few WS's put much time and effort and energy into their family and their children when they are knee deep into an affair. It is just a time of "self" and "it's my turn" for the WS. Don't expect her to be concerned with what is "right" and what is "fair" for eveyone else at this time, 'cause it "ain't gonna happen" right now.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Self-centered is more like it. It bothers me less her lack of consideration for others as it does her lack of caring/consideration for the best interests of our daughters. I can take a lot of damage inflicted on me, but the slightest harm to our girls' welfare, and i feel like going ballastic. That is something I will not stand for.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
My advice is to have boundaries, and be as nice as possible. No matter how things end up with the marriage, you guys are still going to be the parents of those girls and have to interact on certain levels for their benefit. Pray for everything and expect nothing. It is early for you, furrymitn, and time will tell how things will end up. Continue to concentrate on yourself as a person and your role as Father to the girls. None of those efforts will be wasted, no matter how things turn out with your W.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I'm doing much better at being cordial to her lately, and side-stepping nasty remarks and fight-starters she's said to me. I'm also doing my best to reach out from time to time, invited her to go to church with the girls and I(said no), gave her a referral on an excellent counselor, going to invite her over to make snowmen with the girls(we're in michigan). Little things, that don't force the issue, but also may get her thinking. I'm also doing a little here and there to kind of focus on her, not neccessarily on our marriage. Brought up the other day how painful her childhood and teenage years must have been for her(parents divorced, back and forth game), told her I could see the pain in her face - siad in a very caring manner, without relating it totally to our situation.<p>This much I know. The girls are my only focus now, and every choice I make they are in front of it. All plans revolve around them. By shifting my focus, I hope to relieve myself of some of the pain associated with W.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/06/02 12:06 AM
Petvet,<p>So, she did go through with it and have you served. How sad for your family. However, I can relate 100% to your looking at her and not thinking she was such a great catch. Please don't use my standard as your own, Petvet. I felt that way and it was what helped me to finally and truly let go of my thenH. And, as I have said, I then filed for the D. <p>I am glad your feelings are on the upswing. Keep focused ahead, and try not to look behind, Petvet. You can literally drive yourself nuts with trying to figure out what is going on in the mind of your WS, who probably isn't 100% sure of her own feelings, either.<p>I do ask you to use Plan A techniques whenever you do have to deal with her. You can be firm legally and press for all that you want, including custody of your son. But, she is still his mother and you must not try to interfere with their relationship. Do your best during the D time and afterwards to be as kind and civil as you can muster.<p>I am continuing to do well, Petvet. I am still dating the same guy, and we get along really, really well. I am happy and I do not have regrets for my efforts at trying to restore my marriage. I do not understand it all, but I do feel that I am with a more stable man, now - one who will face his future trials and tribulations instead of running from them. That type of personality is super attractive to me since the affair.<p>You and your son are in my daily thoughts and prayers, Petvet. Hugs to you, Desiree<p>furrymitn,<p>You sound good. I know you are disappointed in your W's behaviors, but still you are trying to Plan A as best you can. Distancing is a good thing when all you get is grief back. Your primary charge right now is to self-care and self-nurture, furrymitn. You can not be a good partner or mate if you are so wrapped in your own pain and anger. Plan A is for you. <p>Your counselor has given great advice, too. Boundaries are super important at this stage. It is hard to separate enabling and supporting your WS. To me, it is a fine distinction. You must do it, however, to ensure you do not inflict even greater emotional damage to yourself. Boundaries and consequences are a natural effect of life, yet so many BS's want to protect their WS from the consequences of their own actions. I was 100% guilty of that, myself. And, the cost to me was to further damage my own sense of self and self-esteem. You sound like you have a good handle on this, though - sticking to your guns without letting her use you, but also letting her know that her opinion is important, too. WOW! You could be a poster child for Plan A, furrymitn!!<p>I do certainly understand how you feel about your kids' hurt in all of this. It is most horrible for them to be hurt. They are the 100% innocents in the entire mess, yet, they have to feel the hurt, too. Yes, do stick to your guns about your girls' welfare and their best interests.<p>You have done an excellent job of trying to re-engage your W. Asking and inviting her all those times and places is great. She may not go, but she will hopefully remember the kindnesses. I do hope that she will turn around and take another look at you as a viable partner for her, furrymitn, before it becomes too late.<p>God bless you and the girls, Desiree<p>[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: Roll Me Away ]</p>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/06/02 10:08 PM
Hi RMA, I have an important question for you, a real gut redging question, a mind bottling question, a Harvard educated Cal-Berkerly type of question. Are you ready? After going through you trials with your ex including the dreaded D, did your ex ever acknowledge to you that he was wrong or apologize for what he did even after he was presnted with the facts that you knew what he had done? My reason for asking this question is I am trying to write this woman of my rador screen. I trying to force myself to accept the fact that this marriage is over. I cannot concieve the thought of being a friend to this woman who stab me in the back and betrayed me like one's business. Even though we have a child together and all things being equal, I would not associate with someone like that under normal conditions. I cannot call someone like that a friend after she has treated me in such a manner. Do you understand what I mean? This is serious business and I take my friendships very serious.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/07/02 12:24 AM
Petvet,<p>My exH has never apologized to me. He did tell me that he was sorry I got hurt, but he directly said MORE THAN ONCE, that he was NOT sorry he had the affair. His perspective was that he deserved to be happy. You know, I agreed with him 100%. EVERYBODY deserves to be happy. However, I still feel that he should have severed his relationship with me and then gone on to find his own happiness, if he was that miserable. I honestly don't think that he was that miserable. He was dealing with a lot of conflict and pain within his own life - his brother died unexpectedly of AIDS (total shocker to us), his job was tenuous due to repeated layoffs at his firm, he turned 50, etc. I wasn't paying him alot of attention - busy with personal hobbies and work. He mets the OW at Daytona bike week and the rest is painful history. <p>I stand firm in my belief of one thing, Petvet. Many affairs are DISTRACTION TECHNIQUES used by people who are just unhappy with life and do not know how to resolve, face or accept things that make them unhappy. So, the WS gets all wrapped up into the affair and the hormones get surging and then they are all happy again and able to push life's problems to the backburner.<p>But, you know the old saying......you can run, but you can't hide forever. One day, things are going to crash for these folks, again, if they don't learn something out of all of this.<p>Ok, my 2 cents of philosophizing!<p>Desiree<p>[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: Roll Me Away ]</p>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/07/02 11:22 AM
Oh no RMA, I do not consider what you said as philosophizing. You are just telling the truth base on your painful experience. I am going through the same pain along with a kid. I'm just trying to find a way to write this woman off mentally. I want you to know that you have been a great help to me. I do not mean to ask you question that bring up bad memories but I am fielding my way along with my son through this deep forest of hurt, pain, and abandonment and trying to figure out what the future holds for my son and I without the woman of the house. I am now father and mother. You know when I think about it WS are people who are stupid and use bad judgement. You cannot depend on them.<p>Thanks for your help.<p>Are you now working the night shift? I just noticed that your responses are coming at night now. <p>You know of someone who is a biker and goes to Bike Week every year and you can find just about anything down there. Many folks take the opportunity to be wild (drugs, drinking,etc.).<p>I can tell you are solid emotionally and well grounded. You appear to be firm and focused. I am proud of you being able to make it through the affair crap with your mind intact.<p>Take care.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/07/02 11:20 PM
Petvet,<p>No, I do not work nights. I just rarely have any time during the day to get to this site, so I mostly just check at night.<p>I am glad I have helped you. I am trying to "give back" a little. So many fine folks gave to me when I was here and in desperate need. No one else can understand how we feel except others who have gone through the same thing. Yes, I have held up well emotionally. But, I was totally devastated initially, Petvet. All one can do is go through the process and hope to come out OK on the end.<p>I hate that things look a bit bleak for you, Petvet. I had such high hopes for you and your W to recover your marriage. It is still not over, although she has officially filed. I still am praying for your family to be reunited.<p>All I can tell you is to give it your all, with boundaries,until it is done and over. It will still take you a long time to heal emotionally. Being divorced solves some problems, but certainly creates others. You will need all of your strength and best thinking to navigate the choppy waters ahead.<p>Please know that we care about you and your son. I am truly sorry for your marriage. Keep the faith - you WILL weather this storm.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 03/08/02 03:47 PM
I'm back!
I've been struggling a little here and there, and barely seem to have time to do anything.
MY latest:
W, in the middle of getting nasty with me regarding how nasty she could get in a D, asked me not to file until she got a job and an apartment. I was floored by the arrogance. First thinking that it was my responsibility to file, second, that I should cut her slack and put my life on hold until who knows when she gets her act together when she won't even cut me slack on anything, even the girls. I told her that I basically didn't feel I had to do her any favors, especially when they aren't returned(boundary, kinda). That I couldn't keep going day to day without having some type of endpoint. She then told me it was over. And still won't even tell me straight out she wants a D, won't even say the word.
I'm feeling like I need to lay it on the line a little with her, site down and just tell her that I can't see putting my life and the girls'life on hold for the next year(she doesn't have a job yet, take some time to get a job history, and wouldn't be making more then $7/hr), when she is totally unwilling to even consider getting back on her medication or go to some sort of counseling, even if it's just for her own good, to make herself a better person. That she is in no position to provide or even care for the girls, and if she is so certain it is over, then why drag our feet? Why put things off when I sit there every night hoping and praying my W will someday come home, while I try to fathom what to say to the girls when they ask 'where's mommy' 'when is mommy coming home'. And if there really is no chance, then let's get the ball rolling.
To see what she'd say.<p>I'm so sick of it. I'm finding out things in couseling that are helping me so much, and help ME be ME, the ME I want to BE! And it's making me stronger, but it's also making me angry at my W. She seems unwilling to change, and that will be her own undoing. If she keeps up her behavior, the next guy is basically going to look at her like "you're a wacko". And that is now totally out of my hands.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/09/02 12:24 AM
furrymitn,<p>Glad you are back. Sorry your W continues to show her selfish side. I suspecdt she wants you to file because she doesn't even have enough money for the filing fee, much less attorney costs. She wants you to initiate it and hopefully pay for it all, too, I suspect.<p>I am so very glad you are in counseling. But, I want to give you a caution. I hear a large roar out of your Taker side. There is absolutely nothing wrong with boundaries - they are 100% appropraite for all of us in relationships, no matter what kind. But, try not to go overboard with your own wants and needs, lest you turn into a self-absorbed person like your W. Please do understand what I am trying to caution you about. Just as there is a fine line with supporting and enabling, I also think there is a fine line with boundaries and being selfish on our side.<p>I have no other pearls of wisdom for you. It is amazing to me to think that your W can abandon the kids, have no job nor special job skills, and still think she is going to be able to go off and then end up with the girls. Truly amazing! Just shpows there is not a lot of HONEST self-assessment going on in her head right now.<p>I will tell you what I have also just told Petvet. She may say she wants a D and she may be thoroughly convinced of it today, but saying so doesn't make it so. It isn't over yet, furrymitn. Try to continue with good boundaries, Plan A when interacting, and as you do so well - continue to look out for your girls' best interests. More time to see how this will all end up. <p>You and your daughters are in my continual prayers. Try to have a relaxing weekend. Do your utmost to just not allow yourself to think about it this weekend, if you can muster it at all.<p>Desiree
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 03/09/02 12:45 AM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Roll Me Away:
<strong>furrymitn,<p>Glad you are back. Sorry your W continues to show her selfish side. I suspecdt she wants you to file because she doesn't even have enough money for the filing fee, much less attorney costs. She wants you to initiate it and hopefully pay for it all, too, I suspect.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>I wouldn't doubt it, she expects a lot that she's not going to get, unless she starts to show that she's willing to return.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
I am so very glad you are in counseling. But, I want to give you a caution. I hear a large roar out of your Taker side. There is absolutely nothing wrong with boundaries - they are 100% appropraite for all of us in relationships, no matter what kind. But, try not to go overboard with your own wants and needs, lest you turn into a self-absorbed person like your W. Please do understand what I am trying to caution you about. Just as there is a fine line with supporting and enabling, I also think there is a fine line with boundaries and being selfish on our side.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree, and have been examining most everything I do and say to make sure it really is a choice I'm making for the girls, and not just something i'm doing to get back at the W and using the girls. In my opinion, i haven't gone there yet, although some things i've wanted to say were close, and i decided not to carry through.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
I have no other pearls of wisdom for you. It is amazing to me to think that your W can abandon the kids, have no job nor special job skills, and still think she is going to be able to go off and then end up with the girls. Truly amazing! Just shpows there is not a lot of HONEST self-assessment going on in her head right now.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Again, I agree. I don't see where she gets her arrogance from, but it's not my job to tell her the things she's doing wrong, only to make sure what i do is right.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong><p>I will tell you what I have also just told Petvet. She may say she wants a D and she may be thoroughly convinced of it today, but saying so doesn't make it so. It isn't over yet, furrymitn. Try to continue with good boundaries, Plan A when interacting, and as you do so well - continue to look out for your girls' best interests. More time to see how this will all end up.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Again, I agree. and it was funny, just as I was reading this part of your post, W came to drop the girls off, and I was an absolutely great actor. :-|
I just don't know how much frustration I can take from her, there's no reasoning with her, she'll only bring up things that really have no bearing on the situation, and things that have happened in the past, just to 'get my goat' it seems, and when i side-step a fight starter, she tries harder. The frustration is really starting to get to me, even though i'm doing my best to just push it off, but at the same time i'm trying to deal with my emotions without letting them take me over. I just think things would be easier if aliens would come get their deciple.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong><p>You and your daughters are in my continual prayers. Try to have a relaxing weekend. Do your utmost to just not allow yourself to think about it this weekend, if you can muster it at all.<p></strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank you for the prayers. I'll do my best to have a good w/e, OD's b-day is tomorrow, and i'm having a b-day party at my house with all the relatives, etc. W will be here in the morning to help decorate, it'll be interesting to see how that goes. plan a plan a plan a, gotta keep my mind in that direction.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/09/02 01:54 PM
Furrymitn, once again your situation almost mirrors mine. Let me me tell something. I recently purchased Dr. Laura's "Ten Stupid Things That Couples Do to Mess Up Their Relationships" (or something like that). I recommend you but the book. Dr. Laura says that stable and unstable people don't go together. I find it sort of interesting that neither of our wives have an interest in counseling.Why?You would think that a someone with a clear mind would want to make things better, but not someone who is unstable. They don't want to make the investment because they may learn that they have problems that will require work. These folks are lazy as far as motivation is concern. They think very highly of themselves even though they are making total asses of themselves. You noticed how they will pull you down whenever you try to move forward. The day to day activities of family life they cannot handle under their present mental unstability. Case in point, before I got married I was very organize. I had my stuff together. About three or four years into the marriage, my stuff became unraveled; as a result, I went four or five years through hell until W moved out. Well, for some reason, I am back on track and feeling good about the future. Everything with the exception of my marriage issue is going well. What is the common denominator of me being off track? W. You see Furrymitn unhealthy people and healthy people cannot co-exist very long without conflict. RMA is right that our marriages are not over yet, that's true, but we need to focus on on us and our kids and let the wives go on to their unhealthy lives. Of course, continue being nice to them but nothing more. For me, I have learned to be all business. I can handle it better that way. I take what is rather than get my feelings and heart involved. A confidant said something interesting to me yesterday. He said this is a blessing this is happening to you. I said why you said that he said sometimes things happen for a reason and that I have been pull down for so long now without that heavy anchor hanging on me now I can sore(wrong spelling) to new heights. Just think stable(Healthy) and unstable(unhealthy). The two don't mix.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/09/02 05:39 PM
Good morning guys,<p>Posted by Petvet:
I find it sort of interesting that neither of our wives have an interest in counseling.Why?You would think that a someone with a clear mind would want to make things better, but not someone who is unstable. They don't want to make the investment because they may learn that they have problems that will require work. These folks are lazy as far as motivation is concern. They think very highly of themselves even though they are making total asses of themselves. You noticed how they will pull you down whenever you try to move forward.
<p>Oh, what wisdom here. My exH also did not want to go to counseling. He did make it to one session and that was it. I agree 100% with what is written here. Very perceptive, Petvet.<p>Yet, we ALL need to remember a thing or two. We married our S's for better or worse. Our responsibility is to do what we can to try to save our marriages. Doesn't matter if our WS is doing a whole bunch of selfish stuff. We must honestly give our all to try to save our marriages, guys. In the long run, it may not happen, but if you have done your best, and given it enough time, you will at least know in your heart that you have done the right things by your wives. I honestly tried and gave my all, and although I ended up D, I am happy and emotionally stable. I like myself and God has been good enough to bring a wonderful man into my life. I am emotionally ready for him, because I feel I did everything I could do to save my marriage, and I don't have regrets for my efforts hanging over my head.<p>Keep focusing on the positives in your lives, guys. As rough and painful as times are, you still have your children with you and many other positive things going for you both. Furrymitn, hope ya'll have a wonderful BD party for your daughter. You are doing so well to temper your anger and I am real proud of you and Petvet, both!!<p>Desiree
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 03/10/02 04:22 AM
Petvet,<p>My father inlaw actually bought this book, and is giving it to W as kind of a way for the inlaws to let her know what it is that shes doing. I'll hopefully get my hands on it.<p>I definately agree with everything you've said.
In order for someone to realize that they need help of some sort, they would have to be somewhat clear-minded, or at least be able to clear their mind momentarily. I'm a firm believer that my W does not have this capability. She is always clouded by the things that she's done in her life, and the repercussions of those things, as well as everything going on around her, and is totally unable to focus.<p>Most of what you've said are thoughts that have been at the back of mind, kept down by my feelings. I have so much feeling for her that I don't want to admit how unstable she really is. Part of what is coming out in my counseling is that I have a deep rooted fear of loneliness and rejection. That my 'enabling' behavior is pretty much caused by that. I'm starting to think that maybe after I make some sort of breakthrough and am not so afraid of losing her to be alone, that I think I may realize that a lot of my feelings for her are actually coming from my fears. I think i lost myself explaining that, but it's pretty pyscho-sematic(sp?).<p>Oh man. I think I was great today. W came over to help decorate, I smiled a lot, even joked around, it was pretty nice, made me a little sad, but i didn't show it. When family & friends came, I kept it up. Cordial, nice, smiling sometimes, and didn't discuss anything but small talk and my D's BDay. There were times when I caught W looking at me at off times. I don't make much of it, but it was nice to know I was feeling good by acting it.
The only sour point was when most everyone had left, and W said she wasn't going with a few of us to take the girls and friends kids to Chuck E Cheese(video games, pizza parlour for kids). I just shook my head and walked away. Said nothing. I can't believe she's that selfish that she wouldn't even help to enjoy her own daughters bday party. But I didn't say anything, walked away, she yelled 'If you have something to say then say it', I just said 'Been a good day, not going to say anything' then she left. I feel good about it. My best friend and I took his son & the girls to CEC, had a blast, W's sister showed up, it was a lot of fun. <p>And, to further elongate my post, this song i happened to be actually really listening to, Quasimodo by Lifehouse, has really excellent lyrics:<p>you could be right and I'll be real
honesty won't be a pain you'll have to feel
'cause I don't need your approval to find my worth
I've been trapped inside of my own mind afraid to open my eyes to what I'd find
I don't want to live like this anymore
there goes my pain
there goes my chains
did you see them fall
there goes this feeling that has no meaning
there goes the world off of my shoulders
there goes the world off of my back
there it goes
does it scare you that I can be something different than you
would it make you feel more comfortable if I wasn't
you can't control me
you can't take away from me who I am
there goes my pain
there goes my chains
did you see them falling
there goes this feeling that has no meaning
there goes the world off of my shoulders
there goes the world off of my back
you can't change me
you can't break me
there it goes<p>have you ever felt that your only comfort was your cage
you're not alone I have felt the same as
you
have you ever felt like your secrets give you away
you're not alone I have been there, too
everyone is looking
and everybody is laughing but I think everyone feels the same
everybody wants to feel okay
everybody wants to
everybody wants to feel
there goes my pain
there goes my chains
did you see them falling
there goes this feeling that has no meaning
there goes the world off of my shoulders
there goes the world off of my back
'cause I don't want it
you can't change me
you can't break me
there it goes<p>I have a couple other lyrics excerpts that are pretty good too on my website(http://playland.bigbrownbeaver.com)
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/10/02 04:47 PM
furrymitn,<p>Glad the BD party went well, even though your W did not join you all for CEC. Oh, I remember how fun that place was when mine were little!<p>I have not read the Dr Laura book. Let me know (you or Petvet) if it is worth the read or not. I read so many others. Yes, the lyrics fit in this situation very much.<p>I went to your website. Saw pics of who I think is your W and your D's. Not sure which one was you. Your family is GREAT looking! I hate that your family is separated. Therapy is good for your soul, furrymitn. I went for a year. All I can is this - I think most people are afraid of loneliness to some degree or another. You spend many years adapting to become oneflesh with your S and then you are just supposed to easily uncleave and see yourself as totally separate and independent?????? Not that easy, friend. Doesn't mean anything is wrong with you. It just takes a large amount of adjusting and time to get used to the "new norm" of being alone, again.<p>Keep the faith, friend! Gotta go the boyfriend's daughter's soccer game.....<p>Desiree
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 03/10/02 08:50 PM
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Roll Me Away:
<strong>furrymitn,<p>I went to your website. Saw pics of who I think is your W and your D's. Not sure which one was
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The Niagara Falls pics are W and I, as well as the NYC pics.
In the Goofy Holiday pics part, my D's are hanging from the doors.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong><p>you. Your family is GREAT looking! I hate that
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thank you. I always liked to believe we looked good together... as a family.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong>
You spend many years adapting to become oneflesh with your S and then you are just supposed to easily uncleave and see yourself as totally separate and independent?????? Not that easy, friend. Doesn't mean anything is wrong with you. It just takes a large amount of adjusting and time to get used to the "new norm" of being alone, again.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes. that's the hardest part, to make it to the point of WANTING to go on and surge forth in life without her. Most everything i've done up til this point in my life has been to look forward and know that at some point, our family is going to 'have it good', and now it skews a little my goals and objectives in life.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr><strong><p>Keep the faith, friend! Gotta go the boyfriend's daughter's soccer game.....<p>Desiree</strong><hr></blockquote>
I played soccer in junior high, HS, and sponsor an open-age tournament team yearly(bigbrownbeaver.com beavers). Did she win or at least play good? How old?<p>[ March 10, 2002: Message edited by: furrymitn ]</p>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/11/02 12:06 PM
RMA, please read Dr. Laura's book. Dr. Laura is very blunt. I have not totally given up on my marriage, but I cannot do it alone. I need her cooperation and committment. I have been focusing on myself and son. The family including W went to the NASCAR race yesterday. Pretty good outing. Whenever W wanted to show feeling towards me, she pull back and said "I said I would not do that".I am forging ahead with or without her. I hate being single too because I know that it is going to be very hard establishing another relationship. In the interest of my son, I will probably go it alone. Dr. Laura does not like second marriages especially when it involves kids. Guys, please read the book. A lot of things she says make sense. Take it from me.
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 03/11/02 11:11 PM
I'm running out to buy it this week. Another very good book is 'If Only he knew' by Gary Smalley.<p>I'm getting to the overwhelmed point again with W. I can't stand the fact that I just know that there are feelings within her for me, but she is unwilling to feel them, like she's too busy making me into the devil to realize anything. I have lost respect for her in many rights, and have to do a lot to keep from being bitter towards her, since all of our interaction is now in front of the kids. She keeps getting bitter and nasty towards me, but i remove myself from the interaction before it goes further, unless of course she keeps at me, then I feel like a schmuck for not defending myself, but I still bite my lip. If she's trying to get to me, it's working. She's also doing an excellent job at convincing herself I am the worst imaginable person. Everything comes back on me, no matter if she was the one who actually did something. Everything puts me to blame, and shame. She is doing such a terrific job of tearing down my self-worth. I find I keep this attitude most of the time now, like i'm angry all the time, and have to beat myself on the wall(metaphor) to snap out of it. It's like she's trying to turn me into her, minimal self worth/self-esteem and angry at everyone for it. <p>I really don't know what else to do to interact nicely with her anymore, except to retract from her, and totally distance myself from her.<p>There is nothing I can say to her that she doesn't came back and say i'm trying to control her or whatever - example, the house she's in, it's now only her and the guy that there are suspicions as to whether she's involved with(he had told her 'he wanted to get in her pants' before, and they had chatted some pretty unacceptable things in the days prior to her leaving. The girl that lives(W and my friend) there is gone for a week. W wanted the girls to stay over, I disagreed and said it was inappropriate with just her and the guy there. She said I was trying to control her. I didn't know how that could be conceived, so I said no, only trying to keep the girls in an environment they know.
I just can't see going on. I can't see continually putting myself through this for who knows how long, and living in a state of disarray and unknown.<p>I can't see keeping myself down like this, 2 months of hearing what a bad person i am and how crappy our marriage was and how it will never work and how nothing can change(even though i am changing myself through counseling and church), it's getting past the point of her getting mad, and more towards verbal abuse. it's hard to keep thinking i'm a decent person. sometimes i'm mad at myself for still loving her and wanting her back.<p>[ March 11, 2002: Message edited by: furrymitn ]</p>
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/12/02 01:11 AM
Petvet, <p>OK, I will get the book, but I just will have to wait a bit. I honestly have zero time to add one more thing right now - just recently started a new job.<p>Wow, your W went to the race, huh? Those tickets were hard to get, I'll bet. How nice you are to include her in the family thing. Look, she still has feelings for you, Petvet, or she wouldn't have to keep reminding herself to be nasty and cold to you. I know it is hard to be where you are, but I don't yet think things are 100% over for you. How many divorcing couples (as in the divorce is filed) do you know that do as many things together as you and your W? I know of none others. Keep your distance and your boundaries. Keep being the nice man that you are. I heard at one point at the soccer game that Tony Stewart was leading, but I never did know how it ended. Who won? My fav is Dale, Jr. - only 'cause I liked his Dad best, and now he is gone.<p>furrymitn,<p>First about the soccer - she is 11 and played for the first time in the fall, so this is her second "Season". She plays offense and goalie. Honestly, and I know next to nothing about soccer - it was not available in my town when my boys grew up - she is just a novice player. But, she does enjoy this so much and is having a good time and learning a lot.<p>Your book recommendation is another I will have to check out. I have not read that one, either. I did read 12 -13 books during the affair time, but have not read any on this subject since that time. <p>I am sorry your W has anger and bitterness towards you. You are not a schuck, furrymitn. By keeping quiet, you are only tempering the argument. If you speak up to defend yourself, she won't listen and things will only escalte from there. Don't think of yourself as a schuck - you aren't - you are just being the sensible and responsible person right now.<p>Work on the anger, though. Don't let her get your goat. Your power belongs to YOU. Don't give her the ultimate gift - power to control you. Those words of hers of "you controlling her" - GOSH! I wish I had a dime for everytime a BS here has heard that! Me included! I just have to laugh - sorry - don't mean that is funny. It is ironic, that's all. This goes back to my theory about WS's. They feel out of control of their lives - they're in pain and irritated about life and just don't know how to handle or solve those problems. I truly believe that affairs are in many cases distraction techniques to avoid dealing with what ails them. They want the control and the power and to call the shots and to be the masters of destiny. Can you imagine any more way to be in CONTROL that to cheat on your spouse, who still wants you anyway, but yet the WS still has to "decide"?? <p>Ugh, just don't get me going there. The truth is that she is likely "projecting" her own feelings and thoughts onto you. Ask your counselor about this. Wrestle with yourself to get control of your own emotions, furrymitn. Your life and your happiness are dependent upon it. Find all the positives you can and continue with your boundaries. You are not being unreasonable about the girls. A judge would likely agree with you. Give your W the space she is wanting and concentrate on being the best Dad and man that you can be. Distance her if you need to do it for you, but please use plan a when you do have to interact. Your girls will highly benefit from this.<p>Prayers for you both, Desiree
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 03/12/02 06:15 AM
I'm still working on coming to terms with the plan a stuff, so maybe i'm not totally understanding it. Should I 'buck up' in the face of adversary and be nice, effectively acting? I've done that many a times, and it feels god as to the outcome, but i fell like i'm fooling myself by acting happy, and also giving her the 'ok' to go ahead with the f'd up plan she's on. Should I just act happy/content?
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/12/02 11:14 AM
Furrymitn, you may want to keep your distance and keep doing plan a when you are around her. Since she is being nasty to you, it's best keeping your distance. Also, evaluating and assessing her every mood and reaction can be exhausting. Just take what she does at face value and move on. I don't mean to be cut and dry, but there comes a time where the BS has to focus on themselves and their children and let the WS drift on. You do not need the negative forces from her. Keep in mind negative and positive do not go together. Stop stuggling and focus on the positives including your next move. It is the only way you will keep stress under control and your sanity.<p>RMA, yes I am nice. People tell me that's my problem. I have let her have a field day running over me. To be honest with you, whether she likes me or not, I don't care anymore.She has to show me going forward.I am not going back to the junk I have lived through for the past four years. I have grown tired of the mess. I had invited her to the race before I found out she had filed against me. Otherwise, I would not have invited
her. I don't want anything from her; there's nothing she can do for me.I've thrown the trash out.I'm trying to move on.I have done everything I could to keep the marriage alive but she has shot down all my attempts and efforts, so there's not anything else I can do. It's time to move on.I must stay focus. Little Dale is a good driver; I feel sorry for the kid having to follow behind legend of his father. To me, he looks just like his dad even though they say his brother is a splitting image of their father. Tony Stewart is not one of my favorites. W and son like the G man(I know I know!). She thinks he is so cute.The man from Dawsonville is my favorite.
Posted By: furrymitn Re: Tough Love - 03/13/02 03:14 PM
Well, I took your advice, stepped back a little to give myself the room to look at things and interaction with from a not-so-close point of view. Calmed me down a little to head towards taking "what she does at face value and move on". I also took that approach at inviting her yet again to my counseling appt. OMG, she said yes! Now i'm very nervous. I'm trying not to evaluate it at all, just take it as getting us through this, whatever the outcome, and trying to keep my (false) hopes down. Just take it as this may help us get through this, either making it easier to get D, or to maybe move closer. Who knows, but it's a start, right? Hopefully she'll go back again, I really think if she starts to see this counselour, she'll get her own head straight, and that can only make my life easier.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/13/02 11:17 PM
furrymitn,<p>How wonderful your W will go to the counselor with you. She has a lot to learn about herself and about relationships, but she needs to learn this from someone else who is not you. I got that directly from Steve Harley. Encourage her to go, but do refrain from trying to "teach" her anything at all - it won't work. Petvet did a better job of explaining about detaching. Look, even if she goes to counselling or even if she decides to move home - that is no guarantee that you guys will work things out and restore and rebuild your marriage. You have alot more to face yet, and the outcome of all of this is still uncertain.<p>Plan A does a few things. It teaches you how to be a better partner/mate. You need to ID what are your W's ENs and try to meet them. You need to not LB, as much as you can. You need to practice POJA, rules of time, honesty and care. These will benefit YOU. You may be able to give your W time to pause and turn around and see that you are really a good partner, and maybe she will ant to come back. Or, she still may want the D. If that happens, at least you have learned really good skills that you can use in youir next relationship, if you choose to have one.<p>By focusing on improving yourself, you spend less time focusing and obsessing about the marriage and what your W is or isn't doing. Spend your time constructively. I did not in the beginning of my exH's affair. I spent my time feeling sorry for myself, trying to convince and educate him about his affair, crying, pleading, begging and being angry and hurt. None of these activitis did one thing to help me or my marriage. Finally, I did do a good Plan A. I learned alot and although my ex doesn't get to benefit from what I learned, my current boyfriend does. Use this time wisely to be a better person for yourself.<p>Petvet,<p>Thanks for the good advice to furrymitn. You are getting stronger each and every day. Doesn't matter that you already had invited her - she still went, and to me that is somewhat significant. I can tell, even though you don't want to, that you do still love your W. Listen, you don't just move on that quickly. You are definitely beginning to "let go", but it takes a long time, Petvet. You can't "will" the love away. The love bank will drain itself because she will not make any deposits and her continued hurtful behavior will withdraw even more. <p>Try to just take things one day at a time with all this. How is your son's counseling going? Also, you did not mention, did your W ask for custody in the divorce papers or not?<p>Wishing you both a relaxing evening, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/14/02 06:47 AM
RMA, W has already drained the love bank bone dry. I'm not going back to her mess unless she makes a 360 degree transformation through counseling. I don't think she will do counseling or anything else that will cause her to commit to anything involving me. If that occurred, I would run through downtown naked.Yes, she asked for joint custody; however, pit bull (my attorney) just submitted an answer and counterclaim and pit bull is not taking any prisoners. The bull does not want the court to give her anything. I mean zero. My counterclaim is tougher than the first petition. As I said before, W has made big error in judgement. Son has counseling session later this month; in the meantime, he has become strong willed and disrespectful. I am getting him back in line before things get out of control. I am sad to hear how much pain you went through with your ex. Well at least, your boyfriend will benefit.I can image the good feeling you must have to express that love.It makes you feel good about humanity to know that there are good people who appreciate you and return your love.I hope things work out for you.Please read Dr. Laura's book before you take the dive.By the way, what was your hobby that you had during your marriage?Ex did not want to participate?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/14/02 11:29 PM
Petvet,<p>Well your love bank may be draining, but you aren't 100% dry, yet. I imagine your lawyer is going to give your W a tough time. She just doesn't see it coming at all, does she? Too bad - more of the hiding the head in the sand phenomenon as exhibited by many WS's. Just make sure that you do your best for your son. The judge will hopefully agree to those things that are deemed best for him. Good luck in all of this.<p>About me. My one big hobby was Tae Kwon Do. I am a second degree Kukkiwon certified black belt. Takes a lot of time to stay in shape and to train. I started because exH got into this and begged me to join after I had finished my master's degree. I did so to share his hobby. He ended up having to quit due to a non-malignant brain tumor. He had surgery and could never recover his balance enough to participate. He stopped but I kept going. In retrospect, I think he felt neglected about the time I spent training and working out. I questioned him many times about it, but he always said he was fine and encouraged me to keep at it. <p>He was not honest, Petvet. He said to me more than once during his affair that the OW put him #1 in her life. To me, that means he felt I did not do that. All people that knew us as a couple know one thing - I spoiled my exH. He was really spoiled by me. The year before he started the affair, I threw him a BD party for his 50th on a cruise to the Bahamas - paid for 20 people to go, and most of the airfares. I could have bought a small car with the amount I spent. Too bad - that didn't mean a whole lot one year later. I guess me not focusing on him 100% of the time really made him feel less "special" than the OW made him feel.<p>Well, after therapy, I see alot. I know I was a good wife, really a great wife in many but not all respects. I know I did let some things slide and took some things for granted. I needed to work on my approach and not try to direct and be responsible for so much of the family activities. I need to make sure any person I am with feels loved by me. Yet, I don't have to try to be 100% responsible for their personal happiness and their choices - that belongs to each person individually. I know I deserve someone who can be counted on for both the good times and the bad. In turn, I must be a partner who can be counted on in the same good and bad times.<p>Lots of stuff learned the hard way. Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/15/02 12:04 PM
Well, I won't be getting into any physical confrontations with you. I am proud of you getting involve and being committed to woth while hooby like that. As I have said before, these WS are stupid, stupid, stupid. What bothers me about these folks is they want everyone to be perfect but they don't take time to look at themselves in the mirror. They are not strong people internally. My W pull the same crap. They want you to stay attached and bonded to them 24-7. The attention they think they are going to get from the OP is only an allusion because they will wear that person out mentally and physically and then they will either get tired or them or get dumped. I do not miss the mess. The trash is out. At my mindset now, I have no mercy.I want to live in peace.The WS's are a bunch of dramas: if it ain't one thing it's another. I think your husband just wanted to taste another lollipop like my W. We are all not perfect but our WS did not have a legitimite cause for what they have done.You done good. I am proud of you.It's his lost.It's going to be my W lost. Screw the both of them. As I have said before, my love bank is bone dry;I think.Take care of yourself.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/15/02 11:25 PM
Petvet and furrymitn,<p>I will be gone for a week. I'll check in on you two when I get back. Hope your week goes well.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/26/02 05:09 AM
RMA, I hope you had a good vacation or business trip.Son and I are doing OK.W told me that she does not like the way I am treating her. I have been all business: no more no less.No touchy feely from me: she did not want that. Now, I'm all business. She cannot have it both ways.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/26/02 01:21 PM
Petvet,
Of course she does not like the "new" you. She wants her cake and to eat it, too. You are now in a semi-Plan B mode. She is the one ramrodding the divorce down your throat. Be as nice and civil as you can when you two have to interact, Petvet. Perhpas your change in attitude towards her will give her cause to stop and think how much she will miss having you as a significant person in her life. <p>Her current irritation is a good sign, Petvet.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/01/02 12:55 AM
Hi RMA, how are things with you? I forgot to ask how you were doing last time.How has Easter been for you? I had a fairly decent Easter. I swallowed my pride and went to church and worshipped with my family. I did it for the kid. Afterwards, I was going to take my son out to dinner; I invited W to go, she accepted. She was very sociable. I think the kid liked us being together. Sometimes, I wonder whether W knows exactly what she is doing.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/02/02 02:25 AM
Petvet,<p>You are a good man. I am happy your family was able to go to church together and then spend the day together on Easter. I keep telling you that you and your W are not done, yet, Petvet. I know you hate the rollercoaster, as well you should, but your W has not 100% walked away from you or the marriage. Keep on plugging, friend.<p>My Easter was great. Had my fella, all my sons and a couple of their girlfriends, too. I also had my sister and BIL from out of state for several days. They went sightseeing from here and may stop on the way back through. I cooked a huge dinner, as I always do on holidays. It was a wonderful time together.<p>Have you heard anything from furrymitn, lately?
I wonder how things are going for him.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/02/02 05:43 AM
RMA, while you were gone, I just knew that Furrymitn would keep us abreast of his situation, but I have not heard from him. I wonder whether he has gotten frustrated or whether things have taken a turn for the good.Either way, it would seem that he would still interact with us. He seem rather quick to wash his hands of W because of his W's indecision; I wonder whether he made his mind up and have moved on.<p>By the way if you don't mine me asking, what was on your menu for Easter? You must love to cook. Apparently, your family knows that's the place to be for the holidays. It sounds traditional. Your sons are protective of you, aren't they? The ex just does not know what he gave up. Men love women who love to cook; I know I do, especially, if they can cook but more importantly, just the knowledge that a women or W would take the time to convene family for special occasions really says a lot about the matriarch.<p>As far as my W is concern, I just don't know. She looked really good in her dress on Sunday.I have to admit that she got my hormones boiling.She was wearing one of those special bras(you know the bra I'm talking about).I think you are right;I still want her.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/03/02 01:36 AM
Petvet,<p>Yes, I knew you were still in-love with your W. It is just the anger and the hurt that you feel when she is being so insensitive and uncaring that make you temporarily forget that love. Just keep being you. Don't obsess about the D, either. I feel in my heart that she is not done with you. You might be one of those couples who D and then remarry. I know 4 couples like that. Keep on praying, too!<p>For Easter, I really had a feast - baked a turkey, smoked a pork loin, wild rice, turkey gravy, cranberry, sweet potato and pineapple casserole, twice-baked potatoes, creamed spinach, sauteed green beans, white and golden corn, macaroni and cheese, a garden salad with everything you can think of in it, baked 3 dozen yeast raised rolls, had a cake (0nly thing I did not cook), lemon squares and brownies. Had a lot of starches, but my sons love them. Now tell me, was that a huge dinner or not!?!? I am Cajun - I love to cook and love to eat. <p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/03/02 12:52 PM
Dawn RMA, you can really cook.You may need to open a restaurant. You know that if you can cook cajun food it is the rage of the eatery industry now. I know of a couple of cajun restaurants that have recently open and are doing really well. Plus I know of a family that caters food, there is really a lot of money in catering especially if you provide good service and the food is good.<p>I really don't know about the W. What do you see that I don't see that tells you that W is not through with me? Also, four couples that D then remarried? How can that be possible? How do they get from disliking eachother to a reunion? These four couples again, did they remarry after how long following their D's? This is unreal.Granted I have heard of something like this before but I thought it was a rare occurrance.<p>Please enlighten me about these four couples. Interesting.
Posted By: Young & Sad Re: Tough Love - 04/03/02 04:01 PM
I need some help people. My husband I and just recently seperated. I moved out since it was his apartment first. He seems to not really be caring and doing better without me. I left to take a stand to not be puushed around. But since that is what he wanted, some space, I do not know if I made any impact. I have stared re-reading the Love Must Be Tough book...but to me it has not gotten any easier for me. I am so depressed, angry and hurt- very betrayed. I do not know what to do. I refuse to call him because I am trying to make a stand and get my respect but still it is getting harder. I miss him immensly. What should I do?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/04/02 01:59 AM
Young & Sad,<p>First off, you need to read the information at this website. Buy theooks or check them out of the library. Gosh, I wish I could tell you to just do X and it would repair your marriage. Alas, there is no magic formula. However, the premise of the Harleys and their material is that you can do some things to improve your position as a viable choice for your H. That is why I encourage you to read and adopt the principles into daily practice. Avoid love busitng and try to ID your H's most important emotional needs and do your darndest to try to meet those. That is the best start you can give yourself right now.
Good luck!<p>Petvet,<p>No, I don't want to cater. That would make cooking work and then it wouldn't be fun. Now, about your W - well, I see that she constantly is hanging around and wanting to do things with you individually and as a family with your son. Look, that just doesn't happen with alot of WS's. Also, she seems to ENJOY alot of the time she spends with you. You are deep into dealing with the hurt and anger and you just don't see some of the things I can see as an objective outsider. Be patient, Grasshopper.<p>Here is the scoop on the 4 couples:
1) Ex BIL and his W divorced for over 1 year and then remarried. He is an alcoholic and I am sure that OW were involved when he was out drinking and carousing.<p>2) My former neighbors - divorced over 2 years and then remarried. The lady's only child got killed in an accident right after her college graduation. I don't know if any other person was involved. The exH moved across the country after the D, yet they did end up remarried after a couple years.<p>3) A couple who are acquaintances were divorced over 5 years and then got back together and remarried. Don't know them well enough to know if another person was involved or not, but I suspect so.<p>4) SDS (Diana) from here recently remarried her exH. I think they were divorced over a year. Her H was the WS.<p>Look, it can happen, it just isn't all that common. More often, I have seen couples get close to D and then one of them calls it off at the eleventh hour. Know that even if things do end up with divorce, you are STILL connected to your W through your son, and always will be. <p>Keep the faith, Petvet. I still have hopes for your marriage.<p>Oh, I made a post looking for furrymitn. No response from anyone. I hope things are OK with him.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/04/02 06:25 AM
RMA, thanks for the info on the couples. Young & Sad seems to be pretty panic right now. Young & Sad gives us more info on your situation prior to your moving out. The Love Must Be Tough book is good, but please read the Harley's books as well. The Love Must Be Tough logic has to be used at the right time. You have to be ready for the fall out. I used it and probably was not ready for the fall out like I should have. Be careful.Are there kids involved? <p>I don't know what happened to Furrymitn.He just dropped from the face of the earth.<p>You are good people RMA.
Posted By: morton Re: Tough Love - 04/04/02 05:34 PM
Hi PetVet and RMA,<p>I was looking at your posts here and I have gained a lot of useful information. <p>My story:<p>I have been married for 1 year. This is my first marriage and my husband's second. My husband and I dated for 2 and was very good friends for 4. During our one year marriage, it has been hell. We were arguing constantly about nothing.My husband and I are both christians. Well in the last few months, we started arguing about our lack of sex and he tried to tell me it was because we were arguing all the time. In January, we had a big blow out and I ended up leaving because he threatened me by saying the only way we could make it is if I be quiet and if I do have a problem,I am to talk to him with fear and trembling the way a child talks to his father. Well I just cried and said the devil is A LIE! I packed my bags and left. Well, after one week, he realized he had messed up and called our mentor couple and begged them to talk me into coming back home which they did. Well, right before, Valentines Day, we had another argument and I told him he had me at that point of wanting to leave and he did not like that statement. He got furious for over a week and told me that he only sees us divorcing because he cannot meet my emotional needs. I told him that he could if he would just seek Godly counsel. He agreed and sought counsel of our mentor couple. They explained to him that he needs to stop trying to run away from things and confront them. They told him that he needs to communicate with me his feelings and not shut them in. Well anyway, we got past that and on Valentines Day, he became really expressive and told me that NO ONE has loved him the way I have and I was such a blessing to him. <p>Well 2 weeks later, he and I had another argument which got kind of physical and he ended up leaving me and coming back 2 days later to tell me he wants a divorce and he was thru with me.
2 days later, I find out that my husband is addicted to porn. He has been masturbated for long time. This was a problem in his first marriage and he NEVER TOLD ME OR OUR MENTOR COUPLE. He apologized for hurting me and lying to me. But he still wanted out.<p>Well, we didn't talk after that for a month and I finally talked to him the other day and he said he wants a divorce but he is not 100% sure. <p>I told him that I did not want a divorce and that I loved him and he was a good man and we could get thru this with God's help. He said, "I didn't think you wanted after all that has happened and the time that has pass." I told him that I will always want him and that is why I married him. I told him EVERYBODY falls short. We just have to learn how to deal with it and move on. I told him that I forgave him and I was no longer dwelling on the past because that has been my problem. I told him what I did wrong in the marriage and I was going to be a new creature when he came home. <p>I am at a lost because I do not feel like we should divorce over this. I have not tried to contact him since the separation because I have ran him down in the past. I decided that he would have to make the decision for contact and if we did talk that I would speak positives and speak about what I did wrong not him.<p>I think it bothered him that I haven't tried to track him down.
What are your thoughts?
Posted By: morton Re: Tough Love - 04/04/02 05:35 PM
Continuance: I forgot to add that he left his first wife and divorce her. Regretted it and tried to get her back but she refused.<p>You would think he would learn from that.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/05/02 01:14 AM
morton,<p>What a story. My impression from reading your story is that you and your H do not know how to resolve conflict. When you don't see eye-to-eye, you guys argue to try to "win" and in the end both feel frustrated and then somebody gives up and just leaves.<p>Your H's addiction to porn is just an "addiction", morton. No different than drug, alcohol, gambling, sex with strangers, etc - it is an addiction - an abnormal obsession with something that is ultimatley hurting the intimacy between you two.<p>You guys are going to have to get some professional help to sort through the porn addiction. Really, do your best to get you BOTH in professional counseling. Know that there is something you both can do to solve your poor communication styles. Dr Harley has laid out the principles of care and policy of joint agreement (POJA). You both have to begin to respect the other person more, and to communicate that respect, care and love by trying to come to solutions to disagreements that don't end up with a "winner" and a "loser". There is a wealth of material on this website to help guide you. Please read the Harley's books, too.<p>I like the Christian mentor couple, too. How wonderful of them to volunteer to help. You have alot of resources at your fingertips - please use them all. Please do speak to your H about the professional counseling for the porn addiction, too. <p>Wishing you the best, Desiree<p>[ April 06, 2002: Message edited by: Roll Me Away ]</p>
Posted By: morton Re: Tough Love - 04/05/02 01:44 AM
RMA,<p>I have spoken with him and he basically let me have it today. He told me that I was the problem and I almost turned his family against him. He says he doesn't have a problem. I am too outdone.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/05/02 10:45 PM
Hi Morton, you and your husband need a strong professional counselor. Your H runs from conflict. You may want to use your mentor couple to try to mediate (use them as intermediary)with him into attending counseling sessions. Remember that you cannot force him into counseling sessions, he has to want it as well as you do. Are there children involve? Would you consider your H to be mature or childish? It appears that it plays cat and mouse games. Like RMA, I would recommend that you read Harley's book on emotional needs. <p>Pray for the best.
Posted By: morton Re: Tough Love - 04/06/02 05:08 AM
Petvet.<p>He refuses to go to counseling at least right now. He still thinks that I am the problem. Typically, I go hunting him down to make peace.
Well, THE DEVIL IS A LIE!
I am not hunting him down. He has to make up in his mind that he has some serious issues. I am in counseling for me. I can't make him do right.
I really do appreciate everyone's input. Let me know if you have anymore.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/06/02 12:11 PM
morton,<p>I am glad yo are in counseling. You are certainly correct in that you can not make your H do things that you consider right. I do want to caution you about one thing. Please take this in the spirit it is intended. You are coming across in these couple of posts as very judgemental towards your H. Look, we all have a right to opinions and we all have our belief systems, many based on religious faith, of what is right and wrong. Just be sure that even if you think he is doing wrong, and most people would agree that porn addiction is a big problem, that you also can communicate concerns to him in a loving and caring way, and thus a l;ess judgemental way. When it comes down to it, we are ALL sinful people, and none of us are perfect. <p>You have tried to improve things by trying to help and improve your H. He just isn't going to let you, morton. This is one of the same mistakes I made when I initially found out about my exH's affair. I tried to modify and change his behavior to improve the situation. He resisted - he didn't want to do it - and he most certainly didn't want me to tell him what to do. A person will change only when they want to and are then willing to put in the effort to change. You want your H to change, but he doesn't want to at this point.<p>It would be wonderful if the counseling you are receiving is bent toward the 12 steps of recovery. You are going to have to accept that he is only going to give up the porn when he is good and ready. You need assistance in acceptance, coping and learning to live with an addict. There are others here who are dealing with the same thing. Please search these posts out on the GQII forum. Keep praying, morton. I am praying for all of you, too.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/06/02 04:22 PM
Morton, RMA was correct in her assessment. I know you are angry because your H does not want to put the same effort into your marriage as you do. If your H does not want counseling, I recommend that you continue to go yourself. Even though it's hard, try to let go of your frustration on him (which burns a lot of mental energy) and concentrate on yourself. You are going to have to build yourself up again. You may want to distance yourself from your H awhile and just take care of yourself. He probably expects you to continue chasing and pleading for him to change. If he wants counseling, he will have to want it and not force into it.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/08/02 10:39 AM
Hi RMA, it seems that lately our forum respondants have not stayed with us very long. It seems that maybe they do not like the responses we are giving them. If I did not know any better, they appear to have trouble with the process because the solutions are not quick fixes. The forum can be a benefit for them if used properly. <p>Well,RMA, I invited my W to dinner again yesterday along with a guest. She accepted. She was very talkative and social. She told me that I do not pay any attention to her anymore. This is going to be an interesting week. My A is going to
give my W a serious reality check this week. I'll let you know what happens.I do not think it's going to be pretty, but she wanted it this way, so she has to accept the consequences.<p>How are things going with you?
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/09/02 01:08 AM
Petvet,<p>One big question for you? Maybe I misunderstood - why is your attorney giving anything to your W? I know she filed, but since you are starting to get along, why don't you just do nothing right now? I am afraid the aggressiveness of your attorney may turn her away for good, just when she is beginning to show interest in you, again.<p>And, she has told you what was "missing" in your marriage - attention for her. You are giving her that now by asking her on special dates. Again, I see so much potential for the two of you.<p>If you were a soldier, I'd tell you to "stand down".<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/09/02 03:35 AM
RMA, you may have misunderstood. Basically, A is requesting temporary custody and child support, and exclusive use of the house. This is part of the process. It is my understanding that if she does not provide support to the household, she has broken our state law. As a matter of fact, since she has not provide support to the household in thirty days, I could have gotten a warrant for her arrest. RMA, she filed against me, so I have to proceed as though this thing is going towards completion. Right now, I am in no man's land. According to A, we have to ask for what we want first before anything goes to court. This is part of the process from my understanding. If she did not want this, she should not have refiled. This is serious business. I do not have the luxury of being lax anymore since she has refiled. <p>Don't get me wrong. I want to reconcile with my wife, but she sent a message with her refiling. I have to take her refiling seriously or I may get burnt.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/10/02 01:09 AM
Petvet,<p>OK, I do see where you are coming from. It is one of those darned if you do and darned if you don't situations. In the long runl the ball still rests in your W's court. I hope she realizes what a mistake she is making before things go too far.<p>You are doing a good job, Petvet, of staying on a fairly even emotional keel. You sure have progressed an awful ot of a short period of time. <p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/10/02 04:53 AM
RMA, thanks for the complement. Of course, I wish my son and I were not going through this mess. I deal with this from two emotional sides: personal and business. I am doing fine on the business side because business is carried out for the most part without feelings involved, but personally I am still hurting because I have been betrayed by a loved one. I want a strong emotionally, spiritually, and committed woman who wants to give and receive and most importantly has values along with being a team player. My wife will have to meet those requirements before we can be whole again.<p>You were not strong emotionally with the breakup of the last relationship were you? The ex tore everything out of you emotionally. I think you are still hurting emotionally to some degree. I hope I help you as much as you are helping me.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/11/02 01:19 AM
Petvet,<p>I was devastated with the breakup of my former marriage. I really, really wanted us to get back together. The worst part is that at first I just could not accept that my thenH did not love me. He sure acted in everyway as if he was happy. I remember asking him about 10 days before Discovery day if he was happy and if I made him happy. He assured me that he loved me and that he was very happy. I even commented that I was living the happy life I had always envisioned for myself and I wanted him to be that happy. He said he was.<p>Well, I know now that he had already begun the affair when he uttered those words of "reassurance" to me. It was just such a shock, Petvet. The entire thing.<p>Do I still hurt - yes and no. One never gets over a traumatic life event. It is always there with you in some small way, but it certainly no longer consumes me. I will never forget what I experienced. But, do I hurt anymore from it? No. This experience is not in the forefront of my life and it does not interfere with my current happiness.<p>I think I am as healed as you can get, Petvet. Truly, I do feel that way. I am still here for a couple reasons - one is to give back, because I know how much BS's are suffering. Secondly, I hope to benefit from others' experiences. I have learned alot about relationship dynamics. Still learning. You have helped me, too, Petvet. I have to try to give you good advice, and your situation makes me think alot. You have turned into a good friend. I pray fervently that your marriage is restored, Petvet.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/11/02 04:41 AM
Thanks, RMA. My situation has turned dry and hard. I do not know how things are going to turn out. You know W has made some really bad decisions all the way around. One will always lose when short term decisions are made that result in long term consequences. I must be honest with you. Recently, I sat down with the priest who did our marriage preparation. Granted, I have sought his counsel since D day. But this particular afternoon while sitting in his residence, he said something to me that he had never disclosed to me before. He told me that he knew I was in trouble because he could tell my wife was not a team player. He felt she wanted things her way and did not want to compromise. The reason we were talking in the first place was someone in my parish died. This person's wife had abandoned this guy and his two kids. The guy did not have any next of kin other than his 17 year old son and 14 year old daughter. Well, he was very upset at the mother because due to the situation the 17 year old had to handle all medical issues and funeral arrangements ( Signing paper, etc.) because he was the closest next of
kin to his father. That made him think of me and my son. At one point, he was saying some pretty negative things like this person miss the turn adn does not act educated. I thought he was referring to the dead man's ex-wife but he was actually referring to my W. Needless to say, I felt bad after that meeting. When I went home, I looked in my files and was able to locate the actual marriage preparation test my W and I took.Well on this test, they like for you to score at least 80% or above. Well, our score came back in the low 70's. Thinking back, I did not think that was too far off to make up through awareness and work. He said that he thought my W said things that she thought he wanted to hear rather than what she actually thought. I do not know what to say RMA. Now, my son and I are here in this house missing an important family member. It does not appear that W's thought process is very good. I may have married someone with alot of baggage. Now, my son and I pay the price.<p>As this priest has said many times, it is what it is.Speaking of priest, this particular one has turned in another priest for doing the BAD thing and testified in court for the conviction of his fellow brother. Not all priest have problems that the press is trying to generalize to all priest.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/12/02 12:25 AM
Petvet,<p>Sorry your counselling did not make you feel better. That is really too bad. I am a Catholic also, so I do understand about the priests.<p>Keep your chin up, Petvet. All I can say is that when you get down, know in your heart that no matter what, you are a good man and a good father to your son. You know you can not change your W in any way. When all is said and done, no matter how things end, you can be proud of yourself and know that you tried your best. At some point, she has to step up to the plate and bat.<p>Wishing you peace and happiness, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/16/02 05:15 AM
Hi RMA, how are you doing? One thing I like about the spring and summer is that I like to work in the yard planting flowers and improving the property plus the extra sunlight gives me more outdoor time with son.Figure this out, as you know JG was sued for divorce by his cutsy Miss Daytona 500 wife. My W brings a article to me about this stuff trying to discuss the Gs ordeal.This was her second attempt. I do not like to past judgement on such issues because it is a horrible situation to go through and I would not wish it on anyone. Why she wanted to make light of his situation was puzzling to me. To make matters even more bizzare, she has been nice to me lately. Just yesterday, I notice that she was reading a magazine with the main article, "Infidelity, What to do with all the drama?". I'm being myself but I do not have anything to smile about when it gets to you because I am not please having to go through this mess. I am the type of person who does not fake his feelings. All I can say is I just do know. I'm still praying. Are you an active Catholic?I mean do you attend mass regularly and participate in your parish activities. I just heard on the news that there are many Catholics thinking about leaving the church. The press has really done a great job on the Church.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/17/02 11:37 PM
Petvet, <p>Too bad about Jeff, but as cute as he is, he won't be alone for long. It is interesting about your W and these articles. Gosh, I wish I totally understood the psyche of the betrayer, but I just don't.<p>What has happened with your legal process? Has your attorney sent her the reply to the paperwork?<p>I have always been a good practicing catholic. However, I have fallen off the bandwagon since discovery day. I did go back pretty regularly for a year in there, but now, I am hit and miss. Over the years I have been very involved, but not now. I have started a new job last year and honestly I have almost no free time, so I have not been going like I should. I do pray very regularly, though.<p>Prayer has really saved me and helped me to turn my situation from despair and hopelessness to peace and happiness. I have a fella that I love and is good to me, too. We can survive and thrive after all is said and done. We have to have the faith and then have the guts to get up and say, "I want to be happy, again." Really, prayer and the right attitude will take you very, very far from the hurt you are currently experiencing.<p>God bless, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/18/02 10:36 AM
RMA, I guess you are right about litte Jeffy; he probably won't be alone for long. As far a the legal thing is concern, my A has replied to her suit and have since requested temporary child support which is due May 1st, custody, and exclusive use of the house. Yah, it is hard to understand the pysche of a betrayer.I'm trying to stop trying to figure out her actions. Unless she comes right out and say something, I cannot try to read her actions. By taking care of my business, that helps a lot. I have been trying to stay busy.<p>Please don't forget God. Make some time for him even with your heavy work schedule.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/25/02 10:08 AM
Hi RMA, I hope things are going well for you. Yesterday was my birthday. I took the day off, but it was not necessarily a good day. I'm having to get a new A because my present A is leaving her private practice to become child advocate for a major county government in the area, so I had to meet with her on my birthday.To make things worst, my W's A tried to sneak under our radar screen a request for a court date even though there is a period of discovery which we would like to use, so my new A had to hurrily submit a court request to oppose the request.As a result, my request for temporary child support and custody will be delayed until the previous issue has been resolved. You know my W did not even help my son purchase a birthday card or present for his daddy. That really bothered me. On the upside, my best friend after learning that I was going to treat myself to a birthday dinner arranged for his wife ,child, and himself to meet my son and I at the restaurant which made the day a little better. This was my first birthday in years without W. At times last night, I was very sad. I am doing my best, but it gets hard sometimes. My son and I will have to go it alone it appears. <p>Take care of yourself.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/25/02 12:24 PM
Petvet,<p>First off - Happy Birthday! Glad you got to enjoy your day with people who really do care about you. It is great to have such nice friends, and of course, being with your son is always great!<p>I was going to post to you last night for an update on your legal situation. What mad scramblings around! Don't you just hate all these things?!? <p>You know, don't think of the divorce as a panacea, Petvet. You and your W, even if she becomes your ex, will always be connected due to your son. The hurt doesn't just stop, either, because you become legally divorced. I wish I could make your hurt go away, but I can't. You still hurt and you still want your family to be restored. I pray for this all the time. I really pray that your W wakes up and realizes how much hurt and distance is happening to you and your son.<p>Keep praying and keep facing forward. This will eventually all be sorted out one way or another. Just let het know you are open to discussion of reconciliation IF she will meet the necessary measures. No matter what, set appropriate interactive boundaries. You are a person deserving of much respect, and sometimes we have to command that respect because others forget to give it to us.<p>Hope you have a good day, today - Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/26/02 04:06 AM
RMA, I think once the D is final that things will get better for me because I can move on. Even though my W and I share a child together, my relationship with her will probably not be good going forward. There will be major changes in store for her. I need peace. She wants to do harm to me, and I know it. I am very tempted to say something to her about not letting my son acknowledge my birthday. Would you say something? As I said in the previous post, I am resign to the enivable. I just don't think she has it in her.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 04/27/02 05:00 AM
Wow, I just read all 13 pages of this post, took be about one hour. This story is all too familiar, I just wanted to wish you luck, sounds like you are getting great advise from RMA.
Petvet, our stories are very familiar, so is the time frame.. check out my signature line..
I have gone though all of this too, my stbxw has acted exactly like yours, guess this is the typical foggy WS behavior. I am now in full "self protect" mode, not contact with stbxw unless it is about our children. It amazes me how cruel the WS can be through out this.. I am going back to court to have my alimony termiated, as suggested by Jen Harley, terminating her health care, and showing her what divorse life is going to be like, I have NO expectations it is going to change things, however I do believe that one day, may months from now, she will realize what she lost, but it is too late. I will continue to follow your post, It has helped me too.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/26/02 09:06 PM
Yea Dave I will try to locate your post. I am sorry you are going through the same mess I am experiencing. I am in the process of giving my WS a reality check. You know I may need to start referring to my W as STBXW plus engaging in total protect mode. Hmmmm!<p>Thanks.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/26/02 11:39 PM
davepr,<p>I have not read your story, bnut will also look for it. You must get an award for reading this thing. It is turning into a novel. Maybe we need to start a new thread. But, then again, it does show the evolution of a person during this rotten process.<p>I am sorry you are here going through the same old, same old. Funny thing is how people in affairs think their situation is special and unique. But, the evidence here shows us the same old, same old. Some of the details are different, but by and large, the stories are all the same.<p>dave, I will look for your story and see if I have anything to offer.<p>Petvet, don't get too hung up on the fact that your W didn't do anything with your son to remember your BD. It is another familiar story written by a person who is currently SELF-ABSORBED. Please, please, please remember where your W "is" right now. She is caught ina vicious cycle of unhappiness and is desperately looking ofr a way out. She is opening all sorts of unsavory doors looking for a way out. You know a safe and loving place for her to be, but she is destined to find her own way out, without help from you. No matter what, she will have to live with the consequences of her actions.<p>Try to find some peace and have a restful weekend, Petvet.<p>Desiree
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 04/27/02 12:59 PM
Petvet,
I used to give my stxw alot of flowers, cards, etc when I was in Plan A, this was way too much for her to handle, it just drove her to OM more.<p>Then I just gave her cards, no gifts, from the children for holidays, etc.. I would get nothing in return from her or from the kids(though her), kids are just 3.5 and 1.5 years old. I come to expect nothing... However, I do continue to give her cards from the kids, not from me, for holiday, I do this for the children, not for her. It makes the oldest feels good to sign (scribble) on the card and then give it to her mom. I am trying to teach them the right things in life, she is too caught up in the fog right now to do the right things for her children, sometimes I have to remind her that she has 2 kids. I never have to worry about her calling here to say goodnight to them or to see how they are doing, that just never happens, although that is hard on my D, she wants to tell mommy good night but mommy is never around, it makes the NC easier. By the way, I live in Raleigh, NC and get down to Atlanta once a month or so, we have a rep. office there.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/27/02 01:30 PM
davepr,<p>I just posted to you on your thread, so please read that.<p>In my opinion, it is now time to STOP doing so much for her. Give her the cards from your kids and that is all. Since you are counseling with Jen, talk to her about this. She can better guide you, but my take is that you are doing way too much for your WS.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/27/02 11:28 PM
RMA,you are right, my situation has become a novel. Unfortunately, this novel I did not want to be involved in.Do you get frustrated hearing my messy life situation at times? Yes, I see that I have thirteen pages. It bothers me too that this has gone on this long. I may need to consider phrasing out of the forum until this thing ends with W. I guess my situation does sound like a broken record.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/28/02 12:23 AM
Petvet,<p>It is OK. The length of this post is fine. It is a good post to see the evolution of you and the gamut of your emotions, because there are all here in this post.<p>Give yourself some more time, Petvet. You are still rather sad. A divorce is a death - a death of the family you once knew and loved that will be no more. It hurts to give up the dreams. You will make it through all of this. You are stronger and certainly seem to have learned alot about what it takes to have and maintain a successful relationship. A whole lot of hard work and dedication to doing the things that will be important to your mate.<p>You will make it, Petvet. Don't leave unless you want to. I leave that decision entirely up to you.<p>Take care, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/28/02 11:17 AM
RMA, I just don't want my situation to be a laughing stock or joke because this has gone on so long. You are right this is the death of a family. What makes it even more problematic is that I like my inlaws, met some good people at her church, etc. It's the relationships were created during this marriage that have been damaged. For some reason, I still feel that I am shouldering most of the load and she isn't.Don't get me wrong I will continue to stay on post to put in my two or three cents for those who need help just like you have helped me. Granted this post is not just for my benefit but it is designed to help others going through the same junk. When all this is over I may print out my entire post to reflect on how far I have come.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 04/28/02 01:08 PM
Petvet,
I think it is great that your story is all here in one post, I know it has helped me.. my story is in about 50 posts across three boards... I wish it is all in one post... It is very interesting to see how things progress in time... it was like reading my situation.. your choice but it great to have the entire situation here ....
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Frank1000 Re: Tough Love - 04/29/02 09:15 PM
PetVet<p>I have just read your entire post and I feel for you. I too am amazed by how much affairs have in common.<p>The stories I read in this post hit really close to home and at times I started to cry (but was able to fight the urge and hold it in) because it was sooo painful and reminded me of my current troubles.<p>I wish I could give you some advice but you have gotten losts of good advice from RMA -- Davepr has helped me and it was good to see his response in your post<p>I will pray for your continued healing.<p>Take care and God Bless<p>Frank1000
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/30/02 01:23 AM
Petvet,<p>this post will not become a laughing stock. Trust me on that. Too many people here can identify 100% with each and every emotiopn you have felt and are still dealing with.<p>Frank1000,<p>I am glad you have been helped by this post. Petvet's story is sadly very, very common. Other men have written to say they feel this story is so very similar to their's. Keep the faith, Frank1000. There is only so much one can do. Do not hesitate to rise to the occasion and do all that you CAN do. But, also recognize that some things are only in the realm of your W to change or "fix". You can only concentrate on being the best H and friend to her, and give her reason to want to reconsider a relationship with you.<p>Good luck, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/30/02 10:32 AM
Hi RMA, I had time to do a lot of thinking and observing this past weekend. On Sunday morning while jogging in a local park, I immediately noticed that the park was busier than usual because normally there are only maybe two other people (including myself) in the entire park at the particular time of morning I jog. Well, as I got deeper in the park I found out why the park was busy. I noticed two cars parked side by side. Us BSs know where I am going with this. As I past the two cars, there were two love birds seating in the front seat of the woman's car. Immediately, I began thinking about the spouses of one or both of the lovebirds including the children. There were two men in separate cars who were paying very close attention to the love birds; I willing to bet they were PIs because they normally work in teams of two or three.What killed me was that the two lovebirds or better yet "dodobirds" did not realize that they stood out like a sore thumb. You are right RMA things WSs are living in a fog. I hope their significant others know about what is going on. <p>I asked W why she did not have son buy card or gift for my BD so son could acknowledge my BD. OK guys (RMA, Dave, Frank) what do you think her response was? Does anyone have a PHD? Not needed. You are right. She responded that she forgot but remembered after the fact but that I will get over it. Nothing like good old fashion love from a scumbag (Dr. Laura said it not me).<p>Speaking of Dr. Laura, I was listening to her show last night and a gentleman call with a situation similar to mines (secret cell phone calls, etc.) which really brought home the point that we who are going through this mess have similar stories even though it's different people. It's hard for me to understand why so many people allow themselves to fall into the WS trap. Do they ever learn?<p>Take care, RMA. Oh, take care also Dave, Frank, etc.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/30/02 10:45 PM
Petvet,<p>I don't think all WS learn from their mistakes, and really many people in general don't learn from their mistakes.<p>Here is the crux - a person has to want to learn and has to want to change. It is not for us to be able to educate the WS that they need to change and start to shape up and do the right things by their families. If only we could say the right things, then our WS would "see"...right???? WRONG!<p>Best lesson I learned from counselling with Steve: Our WS has a lot to learn about relationships, but they can not learn those lessons from us. It just can't happen, because it would cost our relationship too much emotionally.<p>Don't focus so much on the "meaning" of her forgetting your BD. Please do try to remember that your W is still self-focused right now. This entire incident is a not a measure of how little she is thinking of you, but how MUCH she is thinking of herself!!<p>Desiree<p>[ April 30, 2002: Message edited by: Roll Me Away ]</p>
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 04/30/02 11:34 PM
A quote from my WS
"This is all about me"
It sure is.
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/01/02 10:45 AM
RMA and Dave, ME,ME,ME.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/01/02 10:46 AM
RMA and Dave, It's ME,ME,ME! Plain and simple..
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/01/02 02:54 PM
Petvet,
Just noticed something, you said it is plain and simple, me, me, me, you also did this on your
101 post, Kinda of strange. You got it, it is as simple (101) as that.
Hang in there buddy,
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 05/02/02 12:11 AM
Petvet and davepr,<p>OK, this is not new news for you (davepr, this is so similar to your story, I just included you, too). The entire affair is about HER going through HER angst and HER unhappiness and trying to find HER happiness.<p>This is the classic affair story. For some folks, just substitute HIM for HER. The WS is unhappy and their "solution" is to run out and try to find "their" happiness.<p>Look, right now it really is all about HER. All either of you can do is just sit tight and let your Plan B's force your wives' hands. They will either begin to miss you terribly and turn around to give you a "second look" or they will walk away and won't look back. Both of your W's are still too connected to you for the latter to happen, I think. They still come to bothof you because you are still meeting some of their emotional needs by taking care of the family and the financial. <p>Just do as good a Plan B as you can, and try to focus on yourself, because it is the only investment right now, other than on your kids, that is likely to give you a positive return.<p>Desiree
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/02/02 02:52 AM
Thanks Desiree, I hope you are right. I am starting to feel much better, I am much more optimistic about things since finding out about the OM and her 2 best friends telling her point blank that OM is a loser and is not for her. No she has lost them as friends and she won't speak to them. She is getting no support from me, I did a very good Plan B today and will do a better one tomorrow. STBXW invited me to a dance recital for D, I told her I was sorry but I couldn't attend, found out that she did NOT invite OM, just me.
I am pulling back and she is now wondering what is happening, seems like everything around her is falling apart. I do realize that even if she ends it with OM, she may not come back, but for some reason I know that I will be fine either way. I am much less dependent on having my future with her.
Hopefully I can maintain this feeling.
Good night,
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/02/02 05:39 AM
Thanks also, RMA. I hope you are right as well, but I am not optimistic. I have pretty much written her off. I am looking to the future. I know the future will be bright for me with or without her. My only sad point right now is my son. He is having a tough time in school and everything. I have to get him pointed in the right direction. That's my main worry right now. I am trying to distance myself from my wife even more now.<p>I have sad this several times, but I will repeat it. RMA, you have been very helpful. I don't know what I would have done without your incouragement back last Fall. I was in BAD shape. Dave, I hate that you share my misery, but you and I will come out smelling like roses in the eyes of our children and others. People will know that we are good men who care about their families.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/02/02 08:36 PM
Petvet, you are totally right, I know this is not a game but short term they are winning and having all the fun (no responsibility) while although we are morning their loss but working on ourselves and becoming better people. In the long run we will be happier, stronger people and will someday find love again, while they will be dealing with the same issues but worse because when reality does finally hit them, It is going to be painful and they are not going to be able to fix what they broke, ie the family unit.
Hang in there. I have gone all day with no contact, once I get through today, she has the kids for the weekend : ( but I will not have to inferface with her again until Monday so that will be atleast 5 days with ZERO contact with her. My goal is to go the Month of May without ANY contact, they may not be possible because of the kids but I am going to try.<p>I have a new issue, since now I know what a scumbag loser this guy is, If we ever did get back together I don't think I can handle the fact that she has been having unprotected sex with him for 10 months now. YUCK!! That image bothers the heck out of me, that would be a major issue for me if there ever was a reconciliation but we will cross that bridge if we ever get there.<p>Take care,
Dave
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/02/02 09:02 PM
Petvet/Desiree/and others,
Here is what I posted on Frank1001 post.<p>Check out the Tough Love Post: Petvet, you, and I and probably AANAS-2 are in almost identical situations, I was thinking of starting a new thread so that we can share our daily events with each other and learn from them. What do you think?<p>Desiree, it would be great if you could stick with us, it seems we are all now into a modified Plan A/Plan B (limited contact Plan B, but Plan A when we have contact) You advise is sooo helpful.<p>Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 05/02/02 11:19 PM
davepr and Petvetr,<p>If you guys want to post on another thread, I will do so. I will look for whichever it is - new one or another existing one, just let me know where it is if I don't "find" ya'll.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/03/02 09:08 AM
Dave, if you want to open another thread that's fine with me, but I am keeping mine open. Just let me know what the new thread is.<p>You are correct about the long term consequences our WS will experience. You know the thought that our wives may have had sex with someoneelse is what is so demoralizing. They are comtaminated as far as I am concern. If they ever came back, it will take a long time before trust is rebuilt. This mess can consume you if you let it. My W has kid on weekend as well but I am in the process of getting a temporary custody order, etc. to lay down ground rules. She does not want to obid by rules because whenever I try to set ground rules she tries to start an argument and accuse me of trying to keep kid from her. She does not understand that one parent will probably end up getting the short end of the stick. She was the one who lefted, so she has given up alot of her rights. I am going to tighten things up legally because there are too many loose ends that leave me expose. <p>Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 05/03/02 10:27 PM
Petvet,<p>As much as I hope and pray that you and your W won't end up divorced, I do agree 100% that you must protect yourself and your child legally in case things do end up that way.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/07/02 11:24 AM
Hi RMA, how are you doing? Have you heard from Dave or know whether he starting new post? <p>Have question for you? As you know, Sunday is Mother's Day. My good side wants to take W out to dinner with son. My bad side wants to implement Plan B. I spoke with Father in law over the weekend, and he thinks I should continue going after her. Of course, he does not know the entire story. He only knows her side. What do you think? You know I tried to go through several Divorce posts; boy, it can get time consuming.<p>What are your plans for this Sunday? Are things still going well with your friend? By the way, did you ever read Dr. Laura's book?<p>See ya!
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 05/07/02 11:47 AM
Petvet,<p>It might not hurt to do Mother's Day with your W. She is surely dragging her feet about the divroce. She seems so eager to spend time with you, too. Go ahead - your son would likely enjoy the day with both his parents, too. <p>Things are going well for me and my fella. I am having a really good time with this guy. He is going to BBQ for me and all the kids on Sunday, as I would rather do that than go out - too many people rushing around. He did take me out for steaks this past weekend, as a pre Mother's Day dinner out.<p>davepr has started another thread on this forum. Look for it. He, Frank1000 and aanast can all use your help and encouragement, because they have a similar story to you.<p>Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/08/02 10:44 AM
I'm glad things are going well with your new relationship. You are not going to believe this. W asked me last week whether she could keep kid this week (pick him up the entire nine yards). Well, so far, she has call me at work to request that I do her a favor to pick kid up from GP's because of her job. Absolutely amazing! When was the last time she did me a favor? Oh! by the way, my A was able to get our court hearing delayed so a hearing can take place to discuss why the hearing should be delayed. To be honest with you, I don't think she is trying to hang around with me.<p>I'm going to search for Dave's new post again.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 05/08/02 11:53 AM
Petvet,<p>I saw your post on the other thread. You guys are all going to be great supposrt for each other over there.<p>Maybe they are trying to rush things because during the discovery process, it will be obvious that your W will not come out looking too good. By attempting to skip this, they hope she will look more "favorable". I am betting she is asking for full custody and the financial support that goes with that.<p>Stick with your plan, Petvet. You can not prevent her from making decisions that will ultimately out her in some seriously bad spots. You can be the great guy that you are, and nothing more.<p>Desiree
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/08/02 09:23 PM
Petvet, my posted is titled:
WS Wants a Divorce - Plan B - Tough Love<p>I agree with RMA, stick to your plan, the legal could be nasty.. mine was... It is going to be tough time, WS will probably think you are trying to "screw" her, mine did. Stick to you plan through out this process and protect yourself.
My personal experience the legal stuff set us backward but once it was over, we could move forward, I think it helped reality set in for my
WS so it can be a positive thing in the end.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/09/02 03:34 AM
RMA: I think you may be right; however, she has not requested full custody and my A says that she will not get it, but i think she will change her mine concerning custody if she thinks she can avoid child support. <p>Dave: I know things are going to get dirty eventually that's why I am sticking to business.I know I am going to receive pressure from inlaws and the like to take it easy on her. NOT! When she filed for divorce she knew what the consequences were. I'm going to take care of business. I'm going to do it right the first time.I hope you are right Dave about going through this will have a postive affect on W.We will see.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/10/02 01:48 PM
Petvet, you need to show her reality, show her what it is going to be like being divorced, that is not being mean, just reality. The more reality she sees, the more she hits bottom, the tougher life becomes without you and the kids (ie the grass is not greener) the higher the probabilty is that she will hit bottom and start to pull herself out of the fog. Only she can do this, you can help by NOT supporting her and letting her (not making her) see reality, you can make anyone do anything but you can sure open up some of the doors.
Your relationship with her may take a few steps backwards but you are laying the ground work for a good Plan B/Tough Love
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/11/02 02:25 AM
Hello all, <p>I am new to this site, but I am not new to your situation, as I am going through almost the exact same situation for the most part.<p>I hope you don't mind me posting here. <p>My situation started last October.
October 27, 2001 to be exact. <p>That is when my STBX walked out on me. Maxing out all my credit cards, cleaning out my bank accounts and a host of other things.<p>She would not communicate with me for over 6 weeks. We have 3 children, and she made no attempt to contact them either... it's a sad situation.<p>I finally filed for divorce, thinking that it was the end of the marriage. <p>Well to make a long story short, we got back together one week before Christmas. This was because my daughter called her at her work.<p>She told my daughter that, "she had received the divorce papers, and was I really going to go through with the divorce"? <p>When I arrived home from work, my daughter told me that "Mom" was on the phone, I asked to speak to her. We talked... met for dinner... talked about what we could do differently, (with a lot of promises made by her, that were later broken) and she moved back in to our house that night... end of story? <p>ahhh, no.<p>She left again on April 19, 2002 with about $1700.00 in cash and a trail of forged checks on my bank account, and a lien on our house, because she went out and filed bankruptcy. I have just paid $10,000.00 to the courts, to have the lien removed. <p>One week prior to her leaving, I found an unused condom in our bedroom and stains on our bed (disgusting to say the least). I didn't say anything to anybody about it. I just cleaned everything up, and started to look for the smoking gun (pardon the pun).<p>One week after that, without saying a word to anyone... she left.
As I write this, no one in our family has heard one word from her. (three weeks and counting).<p>My youngest daughters birthday came and went, without a single telphone call from my STBX to even wish her a Happy Birthday. <p>That was the straw that broke the camels back.<p>I started the divorce proceedings back up. The sad part is, I still love her very much, but I can't live like this anymore. I'm not going to put my children through this any longer. <p>We have been married for 23 years, the last two years, have been pure hell, and still is. That is how long I have been trying to salvage our marriage. <p>I read all of your posts, and I thought it was somebody talking about my life. There are some major differences though.<p>I had hoped that we could work out our differences. It appears she has been unfaithful, as I just recently found out (Stains on the bed were a give away). She also lies and steals at every twist, and turn she can take. She has been a liar and a thief for most of our married life.
(She has been seeing a shrink for years and because of her actions, so have I.) <p>If I told you all the specifics, you wouldn't believe it.
I am having a hard time believing it myself... it's that overwhelming.<p>I know I'm rambling all over the place, and I am sorry for that. My mind is like scrambled eggs.<p>I don't have any answers for anyone... wish I did.<p>I can't give any advice... because I'm all messed up at the moment.<p>Just wanted to let you know, that your not alone, and my heart breaks for you, because I know how you feel. <p>It tears at the very fabric of your soul. <p>Hoping that things were different, and wondering, how in the hell did I get into this?/ and how can I get my marriage back on track and make my family whole.<p>I tried Plan A, and as you can see, I'm into plan B. <p>Hell, I'm not sure where I am right now. <p>Well, just wanted to vent a little. Hope you don't mind.<p>Also, pardon my spelling, and grammer usage, I'm not thinking very clearly at this point in time.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/11/02 04:08 AM
Boy!! Wallace, I'm speechless after reading your story from hell. After reading your story, my story looks like a cinderella novel. I'm serious as a heart attack; I am honestly speechless. I hope you are still getting counseling. Look, me and the others on these posts are here to support you. It has help me tremendously. One thing I have learned real quick from reading your story is that I am going to stay firm and all business legally with my W. What in the hell is going on with these women who are leaving their families? Is this becoming an epidemic? I'm being nice to W but hard as a rock when it gets to holding W accountable. Wallace I hope you have one hell of an attorney working for you. You have my prayers. Stay in touch with me. By the way, how are your kids doing?
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/11/02 05:42 AM
Thanks! PETVET for the reply,<p>My children are doing O.K., under the circumstances. <p>It has been real tough on them, as well as myself.
They have a lot of resentment against their mother right now. They are all old enough to see what has happened, and how their mother has just tossed them aside with reckless abandon, with no concern for their feelings whatsoever. Unfortunately, she turned out to be a real piece of work.<p>I haven't had time yet to go see my therapist, since the stbx has left. But that is on my "things to do list". <p>There is so much to do, with so much going on (turmoil mostly). It feels like a whirlwind that just keeps raging out of control. <p>I appreciate the support, it has been quite an ordeal so far. I don't expect it to get better anytime soon.<p>I have good attorney's, but we have one problem. No one can locate her to have the divorce papers served. So that is possibly going to go against myself and my children when it comes time for the Court proceedings to continue.<p>She did not respond to the preliminary Court proceedings, either by mail or through her attorney, so right know she is in default, and I was granted temporary orders for the time being, Child custody, etc.<p>But since this is a no-fualt divorce State, the Judge could grant her half of everything, if she is a no show for the trial date. The attorney's say it's doubtful, but they said you never know what a Judge is going to do at any given time, when making a final decision.<p>It just kills me, that someone like this can go out, lie, cheat, and steal, from their own family to benefit themselves.
Without any concern for anybody else, or their feelings. <p>Destroy a whole family, and be rewarded with half of everything you have worked for, for your family, and have it all turned inside out, because someone thinks "the grass is greener on the other side". It just makes me ill to think about it.<p>For the last two years I've held back from divorce, because I didn't believe in it. I feel I was forced to make this move. <p>I love my stbx very much, just as I can sense that you love your W.
I hope and pray for things to be different, for you and for me. I truly know what you are feeling.
I hope That maybe my stbx will come to her senses, and come home, to try to put our marriage and family back together... but, the nightmare continues.<p>I waited for her to come to her senses and tried to be the best H that I could be, but it just became too much. When we got back together this last time, I was determined to make it work, but to no avail. She started right back up within about 5 weeks... not very long.<p>She would reassure me, "that she would never do any of those things again", and told me repeatedly how much "she loved me and the children"... and she would "never ever leave again"... "till death do us part", she would say... it was all lies.<p>So much has happened, that I can't possibly see how our marriage could be put back together. <p>When you lose trust in a marriage, and in your spouse, it's very difficult to heal those wounds. Though nothing is impossible, if all are willing to overcome the obstacles. It's a two way street,
that both spouses must be willing to travel. <p>I hope and pray that your situation doesn't fall in the direction that mine has. If given the opportunity by your W to make things work, do your very best to try to come to a equitable resolve to try and maintain your marriage.<p>By reading your posts, IMHO you have an up-hill battle on your hands such as I felt I did, when we got back together.
But I feel it is workable if both of you can truly commit to each other and trust each other. The trusting part, after everything that has happened is the hard part. Without it, it's destined for failure. <p>Ironically, I still hold a faint glimmer of hope that someday my marriage will all work itself out, but, I'm not very optimistic.<p>I know that myself and my children can no longer live with this type of person any longer. I don't even know who this person is anymore, and I have been married to her for 23 years.<p>Again, thanks for the post. I'll be in touch.<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/13/02 10:28 AM
Hi RMA, I hope your Mother's Day went well. How was the cookout? I attended church and dinner with W, kid, and inlaws. She was social and still critical of me to the point of being corrected by her father.She has been telling me for the last couple of days that she wants to speak to me , yet she has not told me anything. She is still living in a fog.<p>Oh! please read Wallace's story. Very sad.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/13/02 12:07 PM
Hi Wallace, I am very sorry for your situation.
It is obvious that your WS problems go much deeper than your marriage. Until she works out her issues I don't believe there is much of a chance of her working on the marriage or even beening a good parent. I think Plan B is right for you, do not give her any support, emotional or financial. Go to your laywer and protect yourself and your kids, I would also try to get 100% custody of the children. At this point in her life she is obviously not a good influence on them. Make life/reality as tough as you can on her. Don't give her a penny extra and have no contact. I think your best bet is to try to force her to hit bottom, only then will she want to start working on herself, and only she can do this. So a very strict Plan B with not contact my help her get there alittle quicker. In the mean time go and see your IC, work on and protect yourself and your family from her. I am sorry for your pain. Keep posting.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/13/02 06:33 PM
Hello all,

Hi, Davepr,

Thank you for the advice.

I have had no contact with her since she left. No one in our family has, but that has been by here choice. I really don't want to see or talk to her right now... I'm so devestated by what has happened, I'm not sure what I would say. I'm speechless.

She knows our home number, and does not call to check on the kids, or anything... I think it is a pretty hopeless situation.

Ove the weekend, I got hit with some pretty heavy news. She may have ended up pregnant from her A with the OM. Also heared that she may have had an abortion. Plus a couple of other items, I can't discuss right now.

All in all, it was a very rough weekend for me and my children.

I have decided to let her go and hit bottom... I hear rumours that she is heavily drinking, maybe drugs as well, not sure. It's insane. I'm not sure how much more I can take of it.

I'm at work right now... my head is just whirling over it all. Having a hard time functioning at work to say the least.

I'm doing everything I can to soften the blow of all this for me and my family.

I wish I could just stop thinking about it, but I can't... it's maddening.

Well I hope all of you had a better weekend than I did.

Got to go back to work for awhile.

Thanks for the help!

Wallace

I keep trying to tell myself, "why should I love someone, who could care less about me or are family".

This is going to be a long road for sure.
Hope we land on our feet in the upright position... it's a real mess to say the least
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/13/02 10:22 PM
Just a side not to all of this.

stbxw, doesn't know that I have all this info on her.

She thinks I only suspect OM, She has no idea, that I really have confirmed it.

The other info that I received, came by way of her so-called friends, as well as the trail of deceit that she left strewn all over.

She was very sloppy about the whole process.

Had I been looking for it, I would of discovered it a lot sooner.

My bad, I should of been more attentive.

Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 05/13/02 11:31 PM
Petvet,<p>My Mother's Day was great. Had a big crowd over, as usual. They did a bang up job for me, although I had to do most of the cooking. Not a problem, though. Glad you all spent the day together. Your W sure is one mixed up puppy, Petvet. She does not act like a woman dying to get divorced from you!<p>Wallace, <p>What a story! I do hope things are not as bad as you fear. You, Petvet, davepr and others have similaritiesa in your stories, so you can all be of good support to each other. I have added you to my prayer list, which is most unbelievably and sadly long.<p>RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/14/02 02:51 AM
Hi, Roll Me Away.<p>Thank you for including me on your prayer list.
I think I'm going to need all the help I can get.<p>I'm very sorry to hear that your prayer list is so sad and long.<p>Yes, I do believe that Petvet, Davepr, and I have a lot in common concerning our situations.
I do have hope for their situations, They are communicating with their WS, which is a good sign. <p>I believe in order for there to be any sort of reconciliation, there must be some sort of dialogue going on between each other.<p>I, on the other hand, don't hold out much hope for my situation. I am however, open for any suggestions to help cope with my situation.<p>I hope I'm wrong about my worst fears, but I think the people that have given me this info on my stbxw are probably telling the truth.<p>A caring mother, just doesn't walk out on her children, and not to call to see how they are doing IMHO... I could be wrong though... but it just doesn't seem normal. Of course nothing at the moment seems normal.<p>Petvet, and Davepr, just wanted to say, that you need to make sure you keep the lines of communication open with WS for as long as you can, be it good news or bad news. If you lose that, then you are going to end up in my situation, and I would hate to see that.<p>Thanks again for allowing me to post.<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/14/02 10:27 AM
Hi RMA & all, this thing with W is a juggling act: plan a here plan b there. Who knows how my situation will in up? After spending a week with W(I should say off and on time whenever it fitted into her schedule), kid had big time difficulty with the switch back to normacy with me and his routine. It was very tough on me. Time will tell. <p>Wallace: I hope you have seen a doctor about your health. You sound depressed. I cannot imagine you not to be. You may want to speak with doctor about giving you some medication to help you. Your wife has really screwed up. Some of her actions would indicate she may be using drugs and is way "out there" lifestyle wise. She will hit rock bottom real quick. Has her so called friends tried to help you? It's amazing how "friends" to the WS act in situations like this. They are so two faced.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/14/02 01:42 PM
RMA, you are not going to believe this. W wants me to do her a BIG favor. I cannot believe it. Has she lost her mine? Then, when I did not give her a yes answer, she went storming off in anger. What a piece of work she is.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/14/02 02:22 PM
Hey all,

To answer your question Petvet, yes I am very depressed. Made appointment with IC, waiting to hear back from him,as to when I can get in to see him

Also her so-called friends are basically the same people that got her going in and on all this.

I don't know them personally... don't want to. They are all a bunch of losers, drugs heavy booze, they are some real low lifes. I think they got stbx to hang around with them (which she did, behind my back), because I think they were jeolous of her life style.

She had a wonderful family, house, etc., and you know the old saying "misery loves company".
But on the other hand, stbxw wanted to be what they are.
She is an alcoholic, through appearances she had kicked it, but it doesn't appear that she has. She put up a front evidently, she always stated to everyone with pride in her eyes, that she has been sober for "12 years" ... guess not, jokes on myself and my family.

Well, I am going to let her go her merry way, and I have to start rebuilding my life as well as my family's with her out of the picture... at least that is what I'm trying to do... not doing a very good job of it though. I'm in a hard plan B and D.

I am taking some meds right now, but I don't think it's working, as you very well could tell... I'm still depressed over the whole thing.

You know, when you stated that situation about you refusing to do your wife a favor, and you told her no,it reminded me of this.

About two weeks after my stbxw came back, she pulled up in our driveway with a new car, and asked me if I would buy it for her. She was out for a test drive in it. I looked at her in amazement (she had only been back for 2 weeks) and I told her no. She pleaded with me to buy it for her. I was very leary of her motives, so I stood my ground. To say the least, she was very upset. I don't regret the decision, especially in light with what has happened.

You never said what the favor was that she wanted. Hope it wasn't a new car.

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/15/02 05:22 AM
Wallace: she wanted me to help her find another job.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/14/02 07:47 PM
Petvet. You sound like your not doing too good today.

Hope your day is going well.

Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/14/02 09:38 PM
Hey everyone, I am traveling this week so I can't post too much.. Petvet, gland you took a stand and said NO, good for you, another reality check for her. Wallace, as far as meds, Celexa worked wonders for me during my situational depression, I highly recommend it, I have no side effects except when I went off it I got headaches. Hang in there, keep up your good Plan B. I'll check back later,I had some big news, not unexpected though, I knew it was coming, I could just tell. Anyway step 1 again - ws ends it with om, lets see how long this time, atleast this time she did it without any pressure from me.
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 05/15/02 12:51 AM
to all of you,<p>This thread is starting to turn into a soap opera! Whomever said that the truth is stranger than fiction wasn't lying.<p>Petvet, your W is amazing. She does continue to look to you for so very much. Again, my constant amazement that she wants a divorce, with how much she looks to you for support and entertainment. Keep your chin up, friend.<p>Wallace, I do hope that your W can come to grips with all that has happened. Pregnancy and a possible abortion - man, when she crashes, she does try to do it all in style, huh? Really, this is a terribly sad situation for you and her, and your family as a whole. Do know that others have had to accept that their W got pregnant by the OM, or BS whose WH's have fathered a child by the OW. Your marriage can survive even that if you two truly want to do the work to restore the relationship.<p>davepr, sounds like your W has waffled, again. I am hopeful things will be more stable and she will stay home this time. DON'T get yur hopes up too much, though. Isn't she mad at OM right now? If so, things could change again for her if they "kiss and make up"....BARF!<p>RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/15/02 10:39 AM
RMA: yes, it is amazing. I think she wanted an affair just to get out of the marriage, yet she wants my support, etc. She has all these so called friends she talks to, so I cannot figure out why she still wants anything from me.<p>Dave: Be careful. Stay firm and watch your back.<p>Take care.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/15/02 11:25 AM
RMA, she doesn't seem to be angry at OM, just sad.
I want to calll sooo bad and find out what is going on but I haven't... in fact the more I think about it the more scared I get... I am not going to call, she can call me...
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/16/02 01:12 PM
Hi RMA, last night I had the weirdest dream. I hope telling you this does not bring me bad luck, but I dreamed that my W and I were getting back together. NO, I had not been boozing last night. It's very rare that I even have a dream. Just wanted to let you know.<p>Dave, I hope things work out.<p>Wallace, what's going on?<p>Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/16/02 04:25 PM
Hey all,

My son was in a bad car wreck the other night.

I was with him all day yesterday and the night before. He survived (God was with him on this one) and he is pretty banged up... a few stiches here and there. No broken bones or anything real serious at the moment.

He was just driving to work from school, and his car went out of control, hit a tree and then rolled down an embankment about 5 to 6 times. The Police are baffled, I asked the Police to look to see if there was any tampering to his car, and they said they would take a look at it. Car looks like it went through a salvage yard crusher... nothing left of it.

But all in all I think my son will be alright, and I thank God for that.

My two D and my stbxw's mother were at the hospital with us. WS's mother said she has no way of contacting WS. She told me that she has not heard from her in almost 4 weeks.

Tommorrow it will be 4 weeks for all of us that we last heard from WS... it' s a sad situation.

So that is why I haven't been able to post. Haven't had a chance to read posts yet either to get up to speed.

So I hope things are getting better for everyone.

Tommorrow it will be 4 weeks (1 month) of no contact with stbxw. Hard plan B with plan D in full motion. What a mess!

Will be in touch.

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/16/02 06:40 PM
Hey all,

My son was in a bad car wreck the other night.

I was with him all day yesterday and the night before. He survived (God was with him on this one) and he is pretty banged up... a few stiches here and there. No broken bones or anything real serious at the moment.

He was just driving to work from school, and his car went out of control, hit a tree and then rolled down an embankment about 5 to 6 times. The Police are baffled, I asked the Police to look to see if there was any tampering to his car, and they said they would take a look at it. Car looks like it went through a salvage yard crusher... nothing left of it.

But all in all I think my son will be alright, and I thank God for that.

My two D and my stbxw's mother were at the hospital with us. WS's mother said she has no way of contacting WS. She told me that she has not heard from her in almost 4 weeks.

Tommorrow it will be 4 weeks for all of us that we last heard from WS... it' s a sad situation.

So that is why I haven't been able to post. Haven't had a chance to read posts yet either to get up to speed.

So I hope things are getting better for everyone.

Tommorrow it will be 4 weeks (1 month) of no contact with stbxw. Hard plan B with plan D in full motion. What a mess!

Will be in touch.

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/16/02 07:54 PM
Hey all,

My son was in a bad car wreck the other night.

I was with him all day yesterday and the night before. He survived (God was with him on this one) and he is pretty banged up... a few stiches here and there. No broken bones or anything real serious at the moment.

He was just driving to work from school, and his car went out of control, hit a tree and then rolled down an embankment about 5 to 6 times. The Police are baffled, I asked the Police to look to see if there was any tampering to his car, and they said they would take a look at it. Car looks like it went through a salvage yard crusher... nothing left of it.

But all in all I think my son will be alright, and I thank God for that.

My two D and my stbxw's mother were at the hospital with us. WS's mother said she has no way of contacting WS. She told me that she has not heard from her in almost 4 weeks.

Tommorrow it will be 4 weeks for all of us that we last heard from WS... it' s a sad situation.

So that is why I haven't been able to post. Haven't had a chance to read posts yet either to get up to speed.

So I hope things are getting better for everyone.

Tommorrow it will be 4 weeks (1 month) of no contact with stbxw. Hard plan B with plan D in full motion. What a mess!

Will be in touch.

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/17/02 08:24 AM
Hi Wallace, Sorry to hear about your son. Is he OK? Why do you suspect that there was something wrong with the car? Did he fall asleep behind the wheel? Make sure that you use this tragic incident against your W in court to show even more how she abandoned the family. Is your son conscious? Stay strong Wallace.Do you have anyone to help you during this trying times like your parents or brothers or sisters? Don't try to do everything yourself because you are going to end up working yourself to death.<p>Take care and I will continue to pray for you.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 05/17/02 12:42 PM
Wallace,<p>I am sorry to hear of your son's accident. You and your family are in my prayers.<p>RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/17/02 02:57 PM
Hi Petvet and Roll Me Away,

Well, the good news is, is that my son is home from the hospital. He is walking around (a little slow mind you, but walking) and he is in quite a bit of pain, due to being banged around in the car, plus a number of cuts and scratches that required stiches.

He is pretty banged up, but it appears that he is going to be O.K. No broken bones, no internal bleeding, brain scans were all good, just quite a few stitches here and there. The Lord was definitely with him on this one, no question about it.

The only family that I have here is my S23, D18 and D16. My stbxw's mother was with me at the hospital the first night and checked in on him by phone the following day from time to time. It was nice to see her there, also kind of surprising all things considering.
All of my family is in Seattle WA. They are all very concerned about what happened to my S,

My stbxw's mother said that she has not heard from WS at all. I believe her, I don't think she would lie about something like that, during our time of crisis with my son.

The frustrating part is, how can someone not want to be in touch with at least their own children to at least know if they are doing well or not? I don't get it.

WS has her own hard plan B going which includes her children as well. (Sick!) Only difference is her plan does not include the concern or well being of her children, or anything thereof (no contact at all 1 month today).

The reason I was concerned about possible tampering to his car... is because on that same morning that he had the car wreck... he had a nail in his right rear tire when he went out to his car to go to school. He took his car in and had the tire replaced that same morning. Just prior to the car wreck, my son said he heard a clicking sound coming from the right front tire and then (boom), the next thing he saw, were people surrounding him, asking him if he was O.K.

That clicking sound (and I'm not an auto mechanic) sounded like it was a bad ball joint or strut. He had those replaced a little less than one year ago. It just feels a little weird, I could be reading things into it that I shouldn't. But right now, with all the strange things that have been happening, I'm not discounting anything.

Thank you Petvet and Roll Me Away for your prayers, it is helping a great deal. I have been praying like crazy. Going to see my church counselor tonight, I'm really looking forward to going.

I feel lost though, it's a very confusing time. I'm not sure what I should or should not be doing, it all seems so surreal, and overwhelming. I have put my faith in the Lord to help me get through all of this and lead me down the path that he wants me to follow.

There is so much insanity surrounding my life, Satan has done a very good job on myself and our family.

But I still thank the Lord for the blessings that he has bestowed on us (my son is the example of this).

Well thank you for allowing me to ramble. Hope things are going well for all of you.

Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/17/02 03:48 PM
Wallace, I am very glad to hear that your S is okay, thank God.<p>I find it very hard to believe that you stbx can go 1 month without any contact with her children but that just goes to show how mentally unhealthy she is. If I were you I would view her as mentall ill (fog) and do not apply any logic to her actions or lack of actions. Someday, this will all catch up with her, it may be too late then, but this will come back and haunt her. That is not meant to be punishment, but just the sad reality of the situation.
Hang in there,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/17/02 04:23 PM
Hi Dave,

I have to agree with you. STBX is IMHO out to lunch mentally.

It's a very tough thing to deal with.

I was left with no choice but to file for D.

I love her very much, and I don't believe in D, but the repeated pain that she continues to bring to our family is just too much, time and time again.

As you stated, when reality finally does set in on WS, she may very well take a very hard fall.

I never wanted it to come to this, but I'm out of options as you can see.

Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/19/02 01:13 AM
Wallace, you will know that you have done everything you could of done to save the marriage, sometimes there is no choice except D. And sometimes it takes filing for D and letting go, moving on, and giving up to wake up the WS.
You are doing everything you can, you will have no regrets, you can't save the other person if they don't want your help. I am so sorry for your situation, I know the pain. Hope you are having a good weekend and your S is doing well.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/19/02 04:05 AM
Hey!<p>Son is doing much better, he is up and around, and he is going to be o.k. (thank the lord).<p>Not much new here, just my brain whirling around at about a million miles an hour.<p>Still no contact with WS 31 days and counting.<p>You know, I wish this D process would move faster so I can put my life back together. It's just as bad as all the previous garbage that has been going on.<p>Mu stbx's mother called me today, we talked a little about WS. She says she has not heard a word from WS either. She doesn't believe her daughter would do all the things that have been going on. She tries to find an excuse for WS on everything... I guess it's only natural.<p>I'm going to move on, just wish it could move a lot faster.<p>Thats about it for the moment, I'll be in touch.<p>Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/19/02 04:53 AM
Petvet,<p>How are you doing? <p>Have not heard from you in awhile, are you O.k.?<p>Let us know if you could.<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/19/02 01:01 PM
Hi Wallace and all, I'm doing OK. I have to agree with you; I am tired of this mess and being legally associated with W. She's acting like things are business as usual. Any suttle emergency, W calls me using my son as a cover. I don't get it. You either like me or you don't. I do not accept in between. It's hard to implement a Plan B. I cannot wait for my hearing next week then I can get a lot of things in writing.<p>How's your S? You are doing fine Wallace. You will be a stronger man and human being for experiencing this mess. I hate your kids have to endure this junk, but it's life. We have to play the cards we are dealt. I recently came across some research that indicated that the fastest growing family structure is families headed by men of my race. As I mentioned several days ago, I don't what in the hell is going on, but my priest said that he has seen women leaving their families on the increase. <p>I have not gone anywhere. We all need eachother to help endure this hell. I need to go,so I can attend mass.<p>Take care.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/19/02 07:30 PM
Petvet,<p>I don't know what the hell is going on either Petvet. But if someone has an explanation for all these W having affairs, and thinking things are going to be business as usual, I would love to hear their point of view.<p>Over this weekend, I learned, that without a doubt WS had an abortion due to A with OM.<p>My WS, knows that I am very much Pro-Life, and this is all happening from a self proclaimed born again Christian W. (It makes me sick to my stomach).<p>People at Church told me that they would work with me, to show me how to forgive and pray for her. That is going to take a whole lot of work. (Do I see a miracle coming my way?)<p>Needless to say, I am without a doubt going to move on. I (IMHO) think I am better than that, and so are my children. We all deserve better, and with Gods help, he will lead my path accordingly.<p>We don't need someone who brings grief to our family on an ongoing basis. Her time will come eventually, it does for most, who act such as the WS has. There is already evidence of it, even though we have not seen or spoken to each other in over a month. (I've heard through the rumour mill (for whatever that's worth).<p>I'm sure there is a mountain of shame and guilt, but she is to busy with her own concerns to let it affect her right now.<p>My S is doing much better, in fact he may even be able to go back to school tomorrow, so that is good news.<p>It seems that your W still wants to maintain a relationship with you, so that is a good start.<p>It is draining to say the least, to have to keep waking up every morning, knowing that all this fun is still in the works. I know how you feel Petvet, wishing it would go one way or the other in your case. Either it's going to get better, or lets end it.
In my case, I have chosen to end it.<p>Hang in there and stay strong Petvet.<p>Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/20/02 01:05 AM
Wallace, is must seem like just one nightmare after antoher with your WS... I am very much pro-marriage but I believe that you are deseve better than she is capable of giving to you. So if you decide to let go, move on, and give up on her, you will free yourself from most of this pain . Good luck,
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/20/02 06:13 AM
Wallace, I am going to in this hell unless she agrees to the terms of a recovery;otherwise, SO LONG to wifey.Keep up your strength Wallace; you sound determined and focused. That's good. I like what I am hearing. Your W is out there in no man's land. Keep your business state of mind without the personal touchy, feely mindset. It helps with the pain. That's how I have been able to get through this junk. Also, focusing on the kids helps a lot.You are going to make it; keep your support system at church. Why do so many people know what W is doing? Has anyone tried to counsel her? Keep your mind on what needs to be done. None of us need all this DRAMA in our lives; life is tough enough. You, I, and all other victims can do better and will probably flourish after this drama is over. Think about it. All that energy concentrated on bad stuff; how much could we accomplish if that energy was focused on good more productive things. Just think about it?<p>Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/20/02 02:14 PM
Petvet,

The only people that know what is going on, is just my church support group for seperation/divorce and my family of course, and her mother. No one outside of family knows besides my attorney. It's not something I want to broadcast all over.

It's got to the point where you have to make a decision and take a stand. I've reached that point. As much as I wish things were different, I can't change the situation at this stage to make things better, if I could I would. It's a two way street for both spouses to make things work correctly, not a one way street. I've worked the one way street long enough (two years).

Petvet, in your mind, you will reach a point with your W, that you will know, in no uncertain terms weather things are going to work out for you and your W... there will be no doubt in your mind which direction to choose.

Hopefully it will work for you in the direction and path that you would like to see it take.

Stay strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/20/02 02:38 PM
Petvet,

The only people that know what is going on, is just my church support group for seperation/divorce and my family of course, and her mother. No one outside of family knows besides my attorney. It's not something I want to broadcast all over.

It's got to the point where you have to make a decision and take a stand. I've reached that point. As much as I wish things were different, I can't change the situation at this stage to make things better, if I could I would. It's a two way street for both spouses to make things work correctly, not a one way street. I've worked the one way street long enough (two years).

Petvet, in your mind, you will reach a point with your W, that you will know, in no uncertain terms wHeather things are going to work out for you and your W... there will be no doubt in your mind which direction to choose.

Hopefully it will work for you in the direction and path that you would like to see it take.

Stay strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/20/02 02:48 PM
Sorry for the double post, as well as spelling, it's as messed up as my situation.

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/20/02 03:04 PM
Sorry for the double post, as well as spelling, it's as messed up as my situation.

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/24/02 01:31 AM
Petvet,<p>Are you still with us?<p>Let us know how you are doing.<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/25/02 12:18 AM
Wallace: I'm still here. I'm just laying low. I went to court yesterday and received a rude awakening by the atmosphere of the process. Everybody's business was out there in full display; attorneys, witnesses, defendants, etc. were all there in the court. Just business as usual I guess. Nothing happened with my case as I thought it would. Things I thought had been done were not done; no temporary this, no temporary that. Very disappointed to tell you the truth. I am so tired of this crap. I have the Memorial Day holiday to spend alone; Woopi!I have to find something to do; maybe, I will go to the movies to look at "Unfaithful". Who knows I may be able to laugh at the movie because I sure as hell at laugh at my own situation. What's up with you and Dave? Have you heard from your W? How's your son doing? <p>Have a nice holiday.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/26/02 06:56 PM
Sorry court didn't go to well... Hang in there, things will get better one way or the other, long weekends are always tough. What is new with your situation/ WS??<p>Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/27/02 06:58 PM
Hey all,<p>Petvet,<p>I got a letter from attorney the other day. he has got everything all messed up conerning this D. So I had to spend a good chunk of my day revising it all. He is giving away the farm to the WW the way he had it set up. Almost seems like he is working for her. Anyway I know the feeling... it is all crap... I just want it over with.<p>Going on 6 weeks and still no word out of her. It all gets very old, real quick.<p>Dave,<p>Hope things are going well for you!<p>Stay Strong!<p>Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/27/02 08:29 PM
Thanks Wallace, I am off to Germany for 4 days starting tomorrow. Things are still going well, hardest part for me is to take things slow but I am trying, it has been so long, I want so much to be a family and husband/wife again, but one day at a time. Hang in there, Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/28/02 11:18 AM
Wallace: As far as attorneys are concern, it amazes me that you can talk to these folks and they still appear to screw things up. I have learned that you have to micro manage these folks. I think that they have so many cases that they have trouble managing their case load. As far as W goes, she showed up at the house yesterday under the guise that she wanted my son to see me. She engaged in a conversation with me and was sociable. Her visit was of sort odd to me; kinda weird. <p>How is your son? I guess your W has fallen off the face of the earth for now.Do you really want to know where she is? If your answer is yes, a PI can probably locate her.<p>Dave: Is you family going to Germany with you? Do you travel a lot? I hope things continue to go well.<p>By the way, has anyone heard from RMA? She has disappeared.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/28/02 12:18 PM
Petvet, no, I am going to Germany on business by myself, I will be back late Friday night so its not too bad. In my old job I traveled alot, about 50% of the time, that was one of the reasons that I could not meet my W ENs. I changed jobs in Dec of last year, now it is only about 15% of the time so it is much better but in sales there is going to always be some travel.<p>I view your W showing up as a very good sign, she is still thinking about what she is missing out on. I also noticed alot of strange behaviour, besides the fog, before my W came back. Keep to Plan B but Plan A when you must have contact but no initiate anything with her. Keep it up, if she is coming around it is working.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/28/02 02:11 PM
Petvet,

I have to agrre with Dave... I think it's a good sign your W showed up as well. She may be rethinking her position... Sounds postive... stay the course.

Dave,

It sounds like things are going pretty good for you as well. Are you going to be able to post from Germany, or are going to be MIA for awhile/

Nice move changing jobs to be with W... great idea.

I'm in my office today so I am going to do just that... micro manage this D. I pretty much have been from the start, and they still find a way to mess up all the paper work.

S is doing well, he is off from College right now, and has started work, so he is going to be O.K. The hospital did an excellent job on him... you can't even tell he was in a car wreck.

In regards to hearing from WW. No we don't really want to hear from her. The only reason why I need to speak with her, is to come out with a final agreement for the hearing. But being the coward that she appears to be, it appears that we are going to go in without an agreement. We believe she will be a no-show at the hearing... which is what we don't want. We want an agreement with her prior to going into the court room.

Keep up the good work guys.

Stay strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/29/02 05:35 AM
Wallace: Damn! You are in a pickle. Now, it just occurred to me why you want some agreement prior to court because the judge will probably split 50/50 sight unseen just to get matter out of his/her courtroom. Does your W work? It may be beneficial for you to go ahead and hire a PI if you can afford it. A PI may be able to find her in a short period of time. There are attorneys and PIs that are call "skip tracers". They are call that term because they specialize in finding people who are trying to avoid paying debts or the law. One of these guys may be able to find your W. If you can afford it, set up a budget to go towards a PI. You have to find a way to drag her out into the open. Are you sure her attorney does not know where she is? I cannot believe that she has disappeared without a trace. The longer you wait the colder the trail will get. I do not want you getting screwed. You must be aggreesive Wallace! You do not want everything you have worked so hard for to go to your W especially after she abandoned your family. You will only get one shot at this. You will have kids to take care of and that will take money. Is your attorney good? <p>Dave: That's the reason I asked about your travel because you do not want to be away from home too much and not meet W's needs.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/29/02 01:57 PM
Petvet,

You hit the nail right on the head, WHAM! That is exactly the reason we want to find WS. I thought about hiring a PI, but that doesn't mean she will appear to court even if we do find her. The whole crutch of this is to get an agreement going before we go to court, otherwise it is going to be a 50/50 split.

Attorney's are working hard on it. They think that they have enough on WS to have my family still keep the house, as well as make her responsible for child support.

Your right, I have worked hard for my marriage. She has been gone over the last 2 years, more than she has been home. So she really has not contributed very much since then.

Dave,

I have to agree with Petvet, you really don't want to be gone at this point in time if you can avoid it, I would try to concentrate as much as possible on your M for the time being. I understand though, that work situations sometime make that impossible.

Stay strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 05/30/02 12:46 AM
Petvet,<p>I am back - been gone for several days on vacation. QWhat happened in court? I am anxious to know what was settled and what wasn't. You made it sound not too good, but I am not sure what that means. Are you divorced?<p>dave,<p>The guys are right about your time needing to be concentrtated on your W. For this reconciliation to be successful, you have to give it your all once again.<p>Wallace,<p>Glad all is well with your son. Too bad about your W being unavailable. But, sometimes you just have to forge forward and jus get things settled one way or the other.<p>You were all in y prayers while I was gone. Take care, Desiree
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/30/02 02:35 AM
Roll Me Away,<p>Glad to hear from you! I was wondering what happend to you.<p>Thank you for your prayers, they are greatly appreciated.<p>Still moving forward in regards to D. With or without WS, nothing really new there.<p>I put it all in the Lords hands, I cannot fight this battle without him at my side.<p>I would of rather of had a different conclusion concerning my marriage, because I still do not
believe in D, but if it is God's will, then I will follow his lead.<p>My S is doing much better since his car wreck, he is almost as good as new.<p>Good to hear from you again.<p>Stay in touch.<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/30/02 11:34 AM
RMA: I am so happy that you are back.The guys and I really appreciate your input.As far as court was concerned, to make a long story short. Last month, I had to get another attorney because my then attorney took on a high profile position with the district attorney in the city too large to hate. As a result, she turned me on to another attorney she knows to take my case. Apparently, during this time, my w's attorney tried to sneak a request to go to trial without even asking us whether we were finish with discovery, etc. They told the court judge that we had turned down request to settle the case which was a lie. After officially transferring attorney's, my old attorney was to file a objection to trail at the 11th hour. A court hearing to hear objection is schedule next week, but the original court date was not cancelled, so we appeared anyway just in case. My attorney told me that she was going to request a temporary order, but my wife's attorney had a conflict. I was just taken aback by the whole atmosphere. Right now, my attorney is going to make a formal request for temporary custody, child support, and exclusive use of residence. I thought this had already been done through an agreement that me old attorney sent to my wife's attorney two month's ago, but my wife has not responded. My attorney said that she told my wife's attorney we would be asking for maintenance and he told her that we could have anything we wanted. (I cannot believe he said that in good conscious.) Yesterday, W showed up at the house to wash her clothes. On Monday, she showed up at the house under the premise that she wanted my son to see me. She is on vacation this week and has had son for the last couple of days. She just does not get it, does it she?<p>Wallace: Go guy! Your attorney's are heading in the right direction. I think eventually you are going to have to locate her especially if you intend on getting child support from her. If she does not want to appear, at least you can show the court that you have made the effort. You may be able to hit her for some attorney and PI fees. The scent is getting colder, colder.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 05/30/02 02:25 PM
Hi RMA, gland you back, hope you had a good time,
Recovery is going very well, W is moving back home at the end of June, we are going on a family vacation on July 04. She told me the A was the biggest mistake of her life, glad she finally came out of the Fog and sees what I saw 12 months ago.
Now I fighting my own internal battle - ie images of her with OM.... [img]images/icons/frown.gif" border="0[/img] <p>I am back to Plan A with her, I know that my EN are not going to be met from her for some time but we are working hard at starting as friends. Thanks for all her help, you and the others here certainly helped me win her back.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/30/02 10:27 PM
Dave: I know what you mean about the images. It will take some time. They will probably always be in the back of your mind. I need to ask you something. What have you done about your divorce proceedings? Just curious. I'm glad things are going well.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/30/02 11:48 PM
Hey all,<p>We think we located where the WS is. Not certain though, took a little time, but we are pretty sure we know where she is. The surprise is, is she is located about an hour out of the city where we live (completely out of character for her, but I don't know who this person is anymore anyway). Not sure why the move up there... makes no sense... OM is still in the city... but I'm sure It will all reveal itself in time. <p>Attorney's are pursuing it for our next court date, so that is a good thing.<p>Petvet,<p>Your court proceedings sound more screwed up than mine, WoW... hang in there, it has got to get better.<p>Dave,<p>I can only imagine how you feel (OM image), it probably is going to take a lot of work to put that all behind you. Stay the course though... I don't have any suggestions for you on that one. I only know what images I conjure up and it makes me ill. I try not to think about those things.<p>
Stay strong!<p>Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 05/31/02 12:07 AM
davepr,<p>You wrote:Recovery is going very well, W is moving back home at the end of June, we are going on a family vacation on July 04. She told me the A was the biggest mistake of her life, glad she finally came out of the Fog and sees what I saw 12 months ago.<p>RMA response: Dave, please do adjust yor expectations! I say this to you because too often, the WS in the beginning of recovery still waffles back and forth and has difficulty in releasing the feelings for the OP. Your W has failed 3 times before to successfully give up the OM. Here eyes may indeed be "opened", but feelings are hard to die and fantasies are loathe to be given up for good. Just realize that she is still going to struggle an awful lot to be successful this time. Best of luck, though!!<p>Petvet,
What a mess!!! About all I can say is that I am glad you have an attorney now who will concentrate on your case. I think it fair and reasonable for you to get all that you are seeking. You have been a most decent man through this entire ordeal. What will likely happen is that you end up divorced and your W will be one of those who later really regrets it all big time., Too bad we can't give them a REAL glimpse of the future - showing them the long-term effects and ramifications of their decisions. Keep your head up, friend. Disappointments don't necessarily mean total disaster! Thing happier thoughts for you!<p>Wallace, glad your W has been found. Yes, it is strange she is 1 hour away when OM is still there. Perhaps he is also thinking of moving where she is? Who knos, but you can best believe they have some kind of plan, even if it is a screwy one. <p>I also wanted to tell you of a prayer that helped me. It is a modified serenity prayer: God give me the strength, courage and fortitude to accept Thy will. Help me to dig down really deep to find that strength, courage and fortitude when I need it the most.<p>When I was able to finally just accept the situation and put my life in God's hands, Wallace, I was finally able to truly let go of all my preconceived expectations for both my marriage and my WS. It wasn't for me to determine the outcome. I did my part and that was all I could do. I accepted that although things did not turn out the way I wanted and hoped, my faith in God and myself helped me to understand that my life was far from over. I still had to grieve and still hurt, but this faith allowed me to release myself as "victim" and become determined to find a happier life for myself.<p>God will give you the strength you need, once you stop praying for YOUR outcome and pray instead for peace and acceptance.<p>Blessings to all, Desiree
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/31/02 04:34 AM
Roll Me Away,<p>I had written a nice post, but it didn't post, so here I go again.<p>Thank you for the prayer, it is appreciated. I will use it quite often.<p>Thank you for the insight... I must now pray for the well being of my family and myself, and not the outcome. I pretty much know the outcome, and it is not looking very good. Let it be God's will however it turns out.<p>You obviuosly can see my pain and angusish over it all... I wish things could of turned out for the best concerning my M, but unfortunatly it appears it is not going to. <p>In reagards to my WS moving an hour away, and the OM still being in town, I am most certain that there is a method to their madness. I am most certain that their A is far from over.<p>I am sorry that your M did not go the way you wanted the outcome to go... for that I am sad. It appears that through the Lord you grown and overcome most of the pain, and have moved on... and for that I am glad, it gives me hope as well.<p>If you lose your faith in the Lord, there isn't anything left... I will never lose faith in the Lord... for he is my pilot on my journey now.<p>There is much wisdom in your posts, and for that I am thankful that you share your knowledge... it helps a great deal, more than you can imagine.<p>May God Bless You always!<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/31/02 11:38 AM
RMA: Thanks for your support. You are right RMA it is a mess. I am going to be firm and micro manage my attorney; I have no other choice. Even though I wish for a better outcome, I am pushing forward to the end whatever the outcome is. This has been a long ordeal. I just want to get her out of my life the best I can. Yes, we have a child together, but I need to disasociate myself from her the best I can. I have set my mission and priorities going forward and I am going to stay the course. The future looks bright. I just want to get on with it.<p>Wallace: I'm glad you found your W. I knew she could be found if you had the right people looking for her. You are just like me; you just want this mess to end. I hope the OP is not helping your W obstruct justice. It sounds like she does not want to face the music. Stay strong and think of the future. You and your kids are going to be so much better off not having to deal with this junk. It takes up so much energy and resources that you feel so confined, but just think of how you are going to feel after this is over. The pressure in itself takes a lot out of you. I think about you situation everyday and pray that things get better for you.<p>Everyone: I have something funny to tell you. Speaking of PIs, I was jogging (it always happens while I am jogging)on a college campus on Wednesday and notice this car with its passenger and driver doors ( it was hot outdoors)opened parked on the campus facing some apartments across the fence. I
thought something was wrong; as I approach the
vehicle, I noticed this guy with a cam coder recorder some activity in the apartments. He saw me and waved me off. It goes to show you never
know who is watching you. OK,that's my PI story for the week. I am very observant as you can tell.<p>Dave: I would agree with RMA that you need to proceed with care. You have a long way to go yet but things appear to be moving in the right direction.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/31/02 07:20 PM
Petvet,

What a great PI story... I had to laugh after I read that... thanks for sharing that.

I think with everything we have been through, it has become second nature to us to become more observant... that's my obsevation on it anyway, LOL.

I agree with you 100%, lets just get it over with. I and my family would like to get on with our lives, without all this hanging over our heads... I'm sure you feel the same way... I know I'm tired of it. It sucks the life right out of you, as well as money.

Here is something interesting that happened last night.

My brother in-law called me. He said that my WS had called him at his house (my WS's mother lives at there house with him and his wife).

WS screamed at him acusing him of telling me where she was living now. He doesn't know where WS is living, I found out through other sources. But WS thinks he told me where she was living.

Anyway I found it odd that WS would call my BI to give him hell, unless WS has been in contact with her mother (who lives there with my brother inlaw). After I was done talking with him, MI got on the phone, and she started asking me questions about what had happened and why WS had left our home. I had previously had an earlier conversation with her about this, but she wanted me to go through it with her again. She still contends that she has not spoken with her daughter in 6 weeks, which is way out of character, but on the other hand she never once during our conversations over the last 6 weeks asked if I heard from WS... Odd? I think my MI has been in contact with her mother.

MI kept insisting that WS has not had an A. Asked if I planned on proceeding with the D, and I told her yes. She told me to write WS a letter since I knew where she was living, and I told her I was not going to pursue my WS... if she wanted to contact me, she could call the house. Told MI, that we need to come to an agreement, to finalze this D. She told me that if she was in contact with her, that she would let her know.

I also have to agree with you that my WS is hiding out, because of the forged checks, as well as the A (doesn't want anyone to see her).

It was a strange evening last night... just thought I would share that... don't know what to make of it.

Petvet, you stay the course, do not waiver, things will get better one way or the other... it has to. I know what your going through and it's no fun. Hope your attorneys get a good foot hold on your situation... you don't need anymore headaches. Stay on top of them... that is what I'm doing with my attorneys, and things are finally starting to move forward.

Dave,

Based on what I've read and knowing how you feel, be very careful. Each fall you take, (WS goes back to OM) hurts a lot worse than the last ones. It doesn't get any easier.

Like Petvet stated, be observant.

Stay strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 06/01/02 01:36 AM
Petvet,<p>What a story! I guess there are PI's everywhere! I never did use one - wasn't necessary.<p>Wallace,<p>Maybe you shouldn't tell your MIL so much. If she is in contact with your WW, then your W is no longer "guessing" or wondering - she is getting the full scoop right from your MIL who got it all from you. Just something for you to think about, OK?<p>Dave,<p>Why is your W waiting so long to move back home and delay your reconciliation?<p>RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/01/02 04:13 AM
RMA,<p>Your right, I should not have told MI anything concerning the D or anything else for that matter.<p>My lips are sealed, it was a foolish mistake.<p>Thank you for pointing it out to me.<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/01/02 06:06 AM
Wallace: Ohhhhhhhhhhhh yes! The INLAWS? It does not matter what your other half has done; in most cases, your inlaws will give support to their kid. They are not going to believe that their precious little monster has done anything wrong or at the very least, if they did do something wrong, it was because their spouse did not do something right or wrong. Complete denial. My father in law has basically cuss me out over this stuff. I mean I understand his disappointment. Recently, he and I had a long talk and I told him that there is a lot that he does not know, but he still blames me. Wifey has done a good job telling her story, but even she does not know the dirt I have on her. I know several law enforcement officers and PIs who have done me plenty of favors the last couple of years and have taught me the ropes of the trade. If inlaws knew what I know, they would be ashame. I am very frustrated with everything. Whenever she comes around, I get irritated because she comes off as though things are business as usual. Hell! it is not business as usual. She comes to house and use the facilities yet I cannot get one dime out of her for child support or anything. I'm having to take her rear end to court to get maintenance. It pisses me off royally. I was so mad this afternoon I had to pop one of my psycho pills. I'm sorry for digressing, but the point I am trying to make is you probably are not going to be able to trust your inlaws and their family. Blood is thicker than their relationshio with you. This is what happens during D. Relationships are damaged. Basically, the victims of this mess are in it by themselves for the most part. You should not have share stuff with your MI because I am quite sure she is in contact with your W. As a matter of fact, she may be giving her financial support. I would let MI and their family come to me not vice versus. Now, your W is really going to be looking over her shoulder. Don't worry though. Her back is still in a corner, but the element of surprise may have been lost.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/01/02 01:21 PM
Hi everyone, I have been out of the country until last night, sounds like alot going on. Wallace, glad you ateast know where ws is "hiding out" has she still made no effort to see S? Petvet, keep ontop of your lawyer, I also found you have to micromanage, they typically have so many cases going on they cannot remember the specifics of each case.<p>For my update, things are still going well. I have put the D proceedings on hold for now. I got a plesent surprise when I got home, w and kids came over and W had her wedding rings on, I didn't say anything and later than night she asked me if I noticed, I said of course and was happy that she had them on, she said that she felt it was the right time to put them on. She also changed her cell phone number and put call id block on her apt. phone. Why is she not moving in sooner? Because I wanted to start slower this time and not have her move back in right away, I thought a month would be good time although she has spent the night here 2 in the last 2 weeks. I want to work on the frienship part of the relationship first and I know I will pressure her for SF if she is here all of the time and I don't want to do that. I am now certain the relationship with OM is dead, I can't be certain that we will work it out or that she will not find another OM, but this A has died a natural death, I am 99% sure. As far as the mental images, not sure what to do with that , that is my own internal battle I will have to win.
Will write more later,
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 06/02/02 02:31 PM
Petvet is dead on about blood being thicker than water! Due to the divorce and ex marrying the OW right after our divorce, I have lost the close relationship I had with my former MIL. Really, it is true that most parents, even though they may not approve of their grown child's behavior, they will stick with their child. My exH is my MIL's favorite child. Even he said he could commit murder with an axe and his mother would find a way to decide it was all OK.<p>I miss the close relationship with my former MIL, especially as my own mother is passed away. However, the parents of my current boyfriend adore me, so I do have another maternal friend.<p>I hope that all of your relationships with in-laws survive the nastiness and emotionalism of the affair and divorce (for those headed that way). But, don't be surprised if the relationship changes significantly.<p>Have a good Sunday! RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/02/02 07:55 PM
Hi All,<p>I had to take a break away for a little while. It just starts working on you... I'm sure all of you know what I'm talking about... but I'm back.<p>Nothing new on my end, don't know if that is a good or a bad thing. Took care of a few things that needed my attention... me.<p>Petvet,<p>It must be hard on you to have contact with your W and it's business as usual. I'm not sure which is worse, to have contact and nothing getting resolved, or not having contact, and nothing getting resolved. It's a tough situation, and I know it's hard to deal with. I've just been trying to get my mind more focused on completing the end of my M. I think that once it's over with, I'll be able to clear away more of the fog that I have, at least I hope so. <p>Is there no getting through to your wife? Is it that hopeless for you and your W at this stage? I believe that if I had contact with my WS, I probably could heal the wounds (with God's help) and put my marriage on track for a while. But I know it would only be for a little while, and we cannot endure anymore pain. My WS would have to come to terms with herself and turn herself around before I would ever consider ever going back with her... I don't ever see that happening.<p>RMA,<p>I agree with you and Petvet with everything that you both have stated. I have not initiated contact with anyone who even knows my WS since. I guess that is the right approach, of course I'm not so sure about what is right or wrong anymore concerning this mess.<p>The relationship concerning the MI, and that side of the family, is it will probably all fall by the wayside in time... ie. less contact and then no contact. That is for them to decide though. I absolutely agree, BLOOD sticks with BLOOD, right or wrong, no matter what they may have done... point well made. It's too bad that things have to turn out like they do.<p>Dave,<p>It sure sounds like your M, may be taking a turn around. I say prayers for all of us, and I will keep you in my prayers to allow God to bring you and your W the marriage that I know you want.<p>Stay in touch, Stay strong.<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/03/02 04:14 AM
Wallace: You asked a very good in whether everything is hopeless with W. On the surface, I would say yes. See, part of the problem is that W has not suffered any of the consequences of her actions. She thinks she has gotten away scott free. I'm serious. She has her own apartment, money, freedom, etc. Now throw the elements of loss job, child support, in accessibility to house and restricted contact with kid, and you can see that things will get very interesting for her. It would throw some Louisiana hot sauce (w/o the shrimp of course!) on the situation: it would get things to jumping if you know what I mean. W will get a reality check. My instincts keep telling me that W will come back. She calls several times a week to see how kid is doing and obcourse she makes use of the house facilities. People who know about my situation think it is crazy. They think W is in another world and don't know what she is in for. Time will tell. <p>To be honest with you Wallace, I think your W is going to hit the wall very, very hard very soon. She knows that she has really screwed up. She may never recover from her mess regardless of whether she hooks up with someone else or not.You better expect anything to happen. Stay strong.<p>Dave: Stay the course.<p>RMA: You really are hitting all engines full blast with your love interest. It must feel real good. Go Girl!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/03/02 10:59 AM
RMA: Since you have been on the board with me from the beginning, I have a question for you?Last night, I was reading the good ole "Catholic Digest". This month the issue features articles on divorce. One of the things it discusses is a marriage encounter for couples headed who are separated, headed for divorce, or have other serious issues called Retrouvaille. I was thinking about inviting my W to attend, but since I had drop my divorce case and she refile a couple of days later, I did not want to get turned down and make a total "_ _s" of myself. Do you know what I mean?This is the same woman who did not want to have anything to do with Steve.
What do you think? Dave and Wallace give your two cents as well if you want.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/03/02 02:14 PM
Petvet,

Based on what I'm hearing so far, your W sounds like she is waffling to a degree. It sounds to me that she doesn't want to cut the cord all the way from you. So in a sense that may be a good sign. She is staying in contact, coming over to the house, these are all positive signs IMO.

She has not severed her relationship with you completely... there is a reason for that.

Of course, it may be because she has not made a complete decision that she wants out entiely yet. She may be trying to ease herself comfortably into the situation that she is headed for. Once she is certain that she can make it, she will might just make a clean break

W could be reluctant to severe the cord from you completely until she feels she is ready.

If you want to save your marriage, this may be your last and only opportunity for the time being. She is still in a state of indecision by the sounds of it. If you sense that it may be in both of your best interests to ask her to the classes that your Church has, and you think she will be receptive, then I would go for it. I mean, what can you lose? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. If she refuses, nothing really will have changed, and you stay the course.
I know about those classes and they are very successful... if you can get her to go, you may be able to put your M back together. It will take time, but if you really want it... it will be well worth it.

In regards to my WS, I have to agree with you... she is going to hit the wall at 100 mph with nothing to protect her. It is going to be ugly I'm sure. But so far, everything she has done, nothing, and I mean nothing has affected her. It's like water off a ducks back. Going on week seven and still no contact. Once the D is complete, then and only then, will reality set in. Only time will tell though.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
Stay Strong!
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/03/02 04:41 PM
Petvet, I will give you my 2 cents.. I personally believe from what I know about your situation that your W is going to come back to you, the question is when. From my experience, until she is truly ready, anything you attempt with her like Retrouvaille will not get the end result your looking for, she has to be ready and she will make the move when she is. The A has to take is course, she needs to find reality and she will.. You cannot bring her to any of these conclusions, she must find them on her own, for my WS it took her almost 1 year to the day, of course some WS never come to this but I believe yours will or she would not be contacting you. What worked best for my WS to help her out of Fog was to make reality set in for her, she wants to be divorced that starting acting like it. the more financial and emotional support you can cut off the quicker it may happen. I remember a session that I had with Jennifer Harley, she told me to go back to court and get my almony terminated and to drop her from my health insurance, she also told me that my WS would be back and she was right.
Last night my W and I talked about everything that happened, she said it was like an escape for her,
it was her get away from the kids, from the problems in the marriage, it was all fun and games, no responsibility, it was all about her.. but then she missed the kids... then she didn't have the money.. then she lost friends.. then OM started LB... then things that she ran away from became the things that she missed.. life
wasn't all fun and games anymore.... she started to realize what she had and what she gave up.. she also finally came to the conclusion that OM wasn't what she thought he was, he wasn't interested what was best for her but only the physical aspect of the relationship. It took her a year to see what I knew in one week, guess that is why they call it the Fog. I don't believe there is much you can do, with the exception of a good Plan B and making reality set in a much as possible. You can't educate them when they are in the Fog, you can't tell them what they should do, you can only let them go and let them figure it out on their own, I believe the more you let go the better the chance they can figure it out but it is so important to let them figure it out on their own. If I were you I would do a strict Plan B and not
try to tell or educate her on anything, just follow your plan, give it more time, and let her come to the conclusion on her own, my bet is that she will come to the conclusion in time. From my experience, the more I tried to educate my wife and to push things along, the more I delayed her finding herself out of the fog. How do you handle her phone calls? Can you try to implement a plan to reduce the amount of contact you are having with her?
Hang in there, Dave<p>Wallace, I am sorry for your situation, I also believe that your WS is going to "crash and burn" but it appears that you may not wait around for this to happen and even if it does it sounds like there is alot of things regarding herself that she needs to come to terms with and sometime people with these type of issues never deal with them, it is easier to run away than to deal with it. I know that you will be a stronger person from going through this. I hope your break did you some good.
Thanks for the prayers...
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/03/02 06:39 PM
Hi Dave,

You make good points in your post to Petvet. We both agree that she will eventually come back, it's just a matter of when. So that is the good news.

I've thought about what you posted to Petvet with a lot more consideration. If Petvet's W is still involved with OM, then I am in full agreement.

So.... Petvet, you should stick with your plan B, as I know, that is probably not what you want to hear. I have to agree with Dave on this one.

Concerning my situation, WW is going to have to hit bottom before she comes to her senses.
I'm not sure how long that is going to take, she may never come to her senses.

As for myself and my family, we are not waiting around for her. If she was to come to her senses today, I'm not sure we could really take her back. She is going to have to have a very long period of adjustments in her life, before we would even consider having her back... too much pain, hurt, for too long.

Stay the course Dave, things sound like they are really working out for you. You also sound like you have a pretty good grasp on your situation.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 06/04/02 12:55 AM
Petvet,

Well, the guys are all validating what I have been telling you all along - your W really does love you and will likely want to reconcile with you. I think Dave gave excellent advice. Retrouvalle is probably great, but your W will likely get turned off on it just because you would suggest it. Just continue to bide your time. If the D continues along, she is surely going to have to face some big time reality really soon. The consequences will come. You just keep being the really great guy that you are. More than anything, your son needs you to be the same old predictable Dad.<p>Wallace,<p>Your W will need some major therapy to address her issues with stealing. There is more dynamic with her than just the marriage/affair issues (as if THEY weren't enough!?!?). Most important is for your children to have a stable and reliable parent who can model a solid moral foundation for them. You seem to be doing an A+++ job in that department!<p>davepr,<p>I can understand you wanting to go slow, but really, I don't understand what waiting a month will accomplish to help your marriage. Sorry to keep asking questions, but I don't understand. I would think it is better to start working right away - move her back in - and to take things slow in the expectation department, not the work department, if you know what I mean.<p>RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/04/02 11:26 AM
Thanks all. I will stay the course. I will let things play out.<p>Dave and RMA: RMA, why do you think it's a good idea for Dave to take in his W now? If I put myself in Dave's shoes, I would not want to let her in right away either until I am more sure that her intentions are really valid rather than just a pit stop until the next prospect comes along. Dave's confidence has to get to a certain level before he jumps into the pool again. Also, he may want to have fun too soon if you know what I mean.You know once hormones get involve our judgement gets clouded. It's sort of letting the fox into the chicken house without putting tape around its mouth. He may need to be guarded in the short term. What do you think about what I have said, RMA? Does it make sense? I am giving my opinion from a man's point of view and my current feelings.<p>Wallace: I think you feel that your W will never come back, yuh. She's like a criminal that is going to jail. It may take years for her to come back to earth if ever. It seems that she has totally done a personality and lifestyle shift.I'm so sorry for you. It sound like you have cut the cord from your wife. You really sound matter of fact in your resolve. Your W has really blown it. I cannot imagine how your kids feel. There may be no coming back for your W because she has totally screw you and her kids. How is counseling going? Are your kids getting help?<p>Dave: I am really happy for you.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/04/02 12:28 PM
Hi RMA, maybe I am being overly cautious this time but I just want to make sure she is serious this time and so far I am 99.9% confident she is so mabye things will speed up some.. we have already started to pack up some things in her apartment so the move is underway, in reality she will probably be in before the end of the month. She is wearing her wedding rings, no contact with OM in about 3 weeks now although I ran into him the other day( it took alot to just look at him and walk away, i didn't give him the satisfaction of saying anything to him). I also want to get us into MC asap, I don't want things to revert back to the way they were, I think alot of couples stop putting in the effort when they reconcile, they think it is the end of the problems instead of the beggining on a new chapter. I want this new chapter to work so I want to get us into MC and her in IC before she moves back(she agrees)..I am still in IC( one a week for 11 months now) Anyway, I guess I am just being cautious and I don't want to pressure her for SF (ever) and I know she is not ready for that yet so actually the less time we spend in bed together the better, must be a male hormone thing,
(11 months has been along time) probably the better. She has spent the night here a few times and we are planning to spend the upcoming weekend together here with the kids so it will be a good start. I think that she will start to spend more time here as the week goes on. Oh, also, she is spending the day here with the kids while I am at work. The nights that she does go home she is using the time to pack, clean, and continue her reading - She is reading Healing from the Shame that Binds You and His Needs/Her Needs. <p>Wallace, I agree with everyone, you are doing great, just continue the course, when your WS crashes and burns, and if she is willing to work/fix her issues, then you could consider reconciliation but until that day happens, if ever, you need to continue to live as if she is not coming back. I think you big question is going to be her fixing her issues, the crash and burn will happen at some point, the question will be what does she do then. You are doing great. I know there has been alot of hurt and pain, I have that too, but the way I have been viewing it is if she is willing to fix the issues,then 1 year of hell, will be worth 40 years of great marriage to come.<p>Petvet, can you reduce the amount of phone time you are having with your WS? If you were divorced would you been talking to her as much as you do? I don't know how much time you spend talking so I am just asking....<p>Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/04/02 03:39 PM
Hi All,

Petvet,

I think for the moment, until your wife completely shuts it off with OM, you should stay the course. As painful as it may be to stay the course I think it is in your best interest at the moment. The OM needs to be completely out of the picture, and your W has to really want to make the marriage work again... even if you do end up D. Just because your D, does not mean that you and her can never get back together ever again.

Dave,

Again, it appears that the direction that you are taking is going well for you. The MC, if they are pro-marriage is a great idea.

Be patient, be careful... I would hate to see this all go down the drain.

Just to give you some background, when my WS left this last time... we were trying to reconcile our M. It appeared everything was going great. Of course there were bumps along the way, but nothing major that I could see... and then WHAM! Out of nowwhere it all hit... she just up and left... leaving me and my family in the dark. Of course we later found out the ugly truth of what was really going on. I'm not saying this is going to happen to you, I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy... I'm just saying be careful, and be observant of what is going on around you at all times... that's just my 2 cents worth.

RMA,

I can understand why you want Dave to have his W move back in. It puts things a little more in a M building mode, and that I can agree with. Lines of communication are better established, with no outside influences (we all Hope) from OM. Also, thank you for the post... I'm hanging in there.

Petvet,

Concerning my WW... you are right. I don't believe that she will ever come back. It would be a miracle if she did. She has many issues that she needs to come to terms with. Even if she were to acknowledge all the issues, it would take a very long time for her and us to recover from them in order to have a stable family again. I don't see that happening... as much as myself and my family would love to see that happen.

She has to want to help herself at this point, and if she did, I would be there with her to support her.

The hurt that she has done to our family runs very deep and I wished that none of this ever happened, but it has. I'm not very optimistic about the outcome of a renewed marriage.
There is no doubt in my mind, that she will eventually crash and burn. I pray for her everyday, as well as for myself and our family... we all need all the help we can get... it has been very tough on all of us.

I am seeing an IC, however, at the moment my children are refusing to seek any IC. I worry about my children, they are deeply hurt, and I try to console them, but,sometimes I feel so helpless. We are all taking it one day at a time.

Stay Strong!

Wallace<p>[ June 04, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/04/02 06:06 PM
Hi Wallace, thanks for the advice, i am being cautious becuase of our last 2 failed attempts, I have found a pro MC... I am working on getting our insurance setup to cover it, I expect that we will start shortly.. My W told me that OM e-mailed her today, she asked me to help her change her userid, she didn't know how to do it.. I wasn't aware that he had her e-mail id, atleast she told me about it, I thanked her and am going to change her userid today... she also asked if we could
bring a few loads of boxes from her apartment to our house this weekend, I agreed.. we also made plans to go out together on Saturday night, we have a baby sitter for our 2 children.. The Stanley Cup finals are here in town on Saturday and i was lucky enough to get tickets, my W is a big hockey fan so we will have fun. It is very interesting in talking to her about what happened, her feelings, etc, I do have to say that most of the MB concepts are right on. It is interesting if you can be objective and no emotional.. the hard part is to not be emotional when you are discussing SF and other issues that are difficult to deal with.. so far I have been good about not LB when dealing with these difficult topics...
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 06/05/02 12:25 AM
To all,<p>Of course, I have never really been in any true recovery, so my thoughts can be 100% off base, but nonetheless, here they are. Dave, I think it is important to immediately begin the WORK of reconciliation, whether your W is 100% enthused about it or not. My understanding is that most WS are extremely ambivalent about reconciliation at the outset. Additionally, there is the withdrawal that they have to deal with. I realize your W has "seen the light" in regards to the OM, however, she still has to deal with the death of her fantasy relationship. She may have decided it isn't going to work out with the OM, but she still has feelings to process.<p>Why wait a month? I just don't think she will be any surer by then about wanting her marriage. I truthfully think she is likely somewhat ambivalent about you, Dave. I mean that with no disrespect, either. I just really think she is likely feeling that. Also, it isn't likely that she will have processed whatever feelings she needs to process about the OM in one month's time, either.<p>From all that I have read and seen on these boards the past 3 years, I would say that you need to start the work as soon as possible. It reminds me of people going on a diet - why wait until Monday morning to start the diet? Mostly, they delay the start to give themselves the excuse to gorge for another few days.<p>If you guys start sooner and the reconciliation fails, Dave, I don't think it will be because you started too soon. It will likely be because some lessons have not been fully learned.<p>Anyway, my motto is ....There's no time likje the present!<p>RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/05/02 01:40 AM
Hey All,<p>I have to agree with RMA on this one Dave. I know it's probably a tense proposition at this point.<p>To even consider reconciliation at this point would make me nervous. Is it because you might not want the whole thing blow up in your face?<p>
Wallace<p>[ June 04, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/05/02 11:06 AM
Dave: RMA has a point. I guess what do you have to lose. I guess you cannot be 100% sure about anything;give it a shot. PLEASE KEEP YOUR EYES AND EARS OPEN.I'm happy that she told you that OM contacted her on the email. I have to give it to you Dave by not creaming the OM when you saw him. You did the right thing, but I know you had thoughts to go through your head. <p>Yesterday, I took kid to counseling and was talking with the therapist,and she told me that she has seen an increase in woman leaving that families for other men. This is not good news for our family structure in this country. <p>As far as phone conversations with W, I don't know what I can do about them. If she calls about kid, I cannot slam the phone down on her then I would be accused of trying to keep her from the kid. I always keep conversation all business. I don't know what else I can do. Until I get temp order, I cannot keep her out of house. I am very disappointed with my A. Phone calls are not being returned and the like. I am mad as hell about it. Nothing that I have asked her to do, has been done. I see that I am going to have to pay A a visit and raise holy hell to get things done. This is not the way to do business which bothers me because things like this causes stuff to fall through the cracks and stuff gets overlooked.<p>Mad in the city to large to hate.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/05/02 02:43 PM
Thanks for the advise everyone.... W and I have agreed that we are working on the marriage, she has agreed to no contact with OM, changed her phone numbes, email, etc so that is all going well. She is spending most of days this week at our house, she has started to pack up her apartment, she has sent a letter advising them that she is vacating on June 28th... she has scheduled her utilities to be turned off,etc.
She spent the night at the house last night too...
we watched the hockey game until after 11pm and then went right to bed, everything went well..<p>I will take your advice and
I will talk to her today about moving her move back home date from June 28 to June 15th. We can't do it any sooner as I have to find a truck to rent and to find a few friends to help out. I will let you know after we talk...<p>Petvet, when my WS would call me to "check up" I would check the caller id, if it was her then it would go into voice mail. I would check the voice mail, if it was urgent then I would call back immedately but if it was just to chat, then I didn't return the call. Your WS is still getting an EN fulfilled by you, if you are in a strict Plan B you need to attempt to find a why to cut this off... I understand the legal issues about her coming into the house but i would try to find ways to avoid contact with her to force reality.. I had an agreement with my ws that when we exchanged the children, we would open door, let the kids go in, and leave without ever entering each other's dwelling. If the WS is getting some ENs meet by BS and others by OM, there is no reasons to change. Looking back at my situation, I believe that if I would have gone to a stict Plan B alot sooner than I did, things would of changed sooner.
I just wasn't strong enough to do a stict Plan B until the end, I needed her to meet some of my ENs and just hearing her voice would do it for me..
Be strong...
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/06/02 10:57 AM
W called last night a said that she wants to talk to me. I think she may want to ask me not to make D difficult including child support, but I could be wrong. We will see.<p>Dave: Sounds like things are getting better and better. Good for you and your family. God bless you.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/06/02 01:52 PM
Petvet,

Good luck tonight, hope things go well.

Dave,

Things do sound good for your situation, keep up the good work.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/07/02 05:07 AM
<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/07/02 05:53 AM
HI All,

For some reason, my computer at work keeps posting the same post over and over again, when I click my mouse on certain items. Don't know why, but sorry for the double and triple posts.

Wallace<p>[ June 06, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>
Posted By: Tatchina Re: Tough Love - 06/06/02 09:06 PM
What is Plan B?
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/06/02 09:11 PM
Tatchina,

I'm not good at giving directions, so here goes.

At the top of the page there is a thread that says something to the effect "General Welcome to Marriage Builders, click on that, and then look for Plan A and Plan B. It will give you the details of what Plan B is.

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/07/02 10:50 AM
Dave: How were you able to avoid talking to W when your kids were home? Maybe your kids are older than mine and they could answer phone themselves.<p>
Wallace: Be careful with using the web at work. I would hate you getting in trouble. Some employers can monitor your activities. BE CAREFUL. Have you heard from W? What's going on?<p>RMA: Are you still with us? Just let me know that you are still alive.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/07/02 02:29 PM
Petvet,

Well it is officially 7 weeks to the day and have not heard anything from WS.

I'm trying to get my attorney off of his rear end and start moving on this D. It seems that he wants to take a vacation about every other week. I just want to get this over with at this point and move on.

We are packing up her various collections that she has at our home. Music boxes, Barbies, etc. I don't want to look at them anymore.
Looks like she was selling some of her Barbies, she had some real rare ones. She either has a drug habit that I'm not aware of, or she is trying to support the OM, but who knows.

So basically we are packing all her belongings that she left behind, which was many, and putting them in a storage garage that I rented.

How is your situation going? Hopefully better than mine.

Good question Petvet, where is RMA?


Dave,

Hope everything is still working for you.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/08/02 05:23 AM
Hi everyone, i was out of town for the day yesterday so I could not post. W if moving back home this weekend!!!!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]
I am scared but anxious to get going on our future together. I wish you guys were having the same good luck.. I feel bad that my situation has improved but you guys are still where you are at, I know you are doing fine, I can see it your e-mails...<p>Petvet, my kids are 1.5 and 3.5 years old... if W wanted to talk with my 3.5 year old daughter, she would leave a voice mail stating that she just called to check on Emily.. as I stated, when she called I would let it go into voicemail, then immediately check it, if she called to check on Daughter I would call her back and hand the phone to Emily, when she was done speaking I would simply hang up the phone, seemed to work for us.
When she had the kids I simply would not call, that was not easy but sometimes they would call me, again I would let it go into voice mail, if it was my daughter I would immediately call back, most of the times W knew it was me calling back and D would answer, when W would answer I would simply ask to speak to D and would not make any conversation with W. Hope this helps you.
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/08/02 10:47 AM
Dave: How did W initiate conversation with you to start the road back to recovery?<p>Wallace: Once again, I cannot believe your W is willing to give up so much for the unknown. Boy, she is in for it. Man! she is going to hit the wall hard. Do you know anything about this OM?Can you assume that your MI still has contact with her daughter? I really feel bad about your situation Wallace. I really do. My eyes get watery after reading your post. You are a better man than I am. If you like sports, why don't you take in the fight tonight? You need a diversion. This D thing will drive you crazy.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 06/08/02 12:01 PM
Petvet,<p>I am still here. Been busy, but have tried to keep up with at least reading and checking on ya'll this week. My garden is begining to come in, so I am busy with the vegetables. I have a lot of green beans to snap and put up this weekend. I have tons of green tomatoes and I check everyday for the first ripe one, but not yet. I may have other veggies ready - need to check today.<p>What happened with your W?????? If you two haven't already talked, my suggestion is this: LISTEN to her, even if she starts off with stuff you don't agree with. Listening shows love, respect and care for another. However, you also need to stand by what you think is right and then get your points across, if they are opposing, in a respectful manner. If you can, do your best to use POJA. Even if you two end up divorced, you will have to be able to co-parent, and POJA is necessary to be successful in deciding together what is best for your son.<p>What I would hate is that no matter what, she comes away with the impression that you are trying to punish her or hurt her in some way. It is hard, I think, for the WS to understand that the "negatives" out of this entire mess are NOT necessarily ramifications of the BS becoming vindictive or "not being able to let go", but oftentimes the negatives are just ramifications of the WS's own choices.<p>The point is (and I am a wordy one, huh??), I hope that she can see that you aren't necessarily "going hard" on her to get back at her - she is just going to lose alot of the benefits - financial, physical and emotion benefits of being in a relationship with you. It's all about the consequences on her own choosing.<p>Your job is to leave the door open for reconciliation; make it clear what the terms would include for you to consider reconciliation; and also stand firm that you will protect your child and yourself legally and financially, to the fullest extent of the law, if the divorce becomes final.<p>The rest is up to her.<p>Big-time prayers for your family this weekend!!<p>RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/08/02 06:12 PM
Petvet,<p>What I know about the OM is this.<p>He is a Pro., he has done this before with another woman. Once she got her D settlement, he took her money and wasted it away. She pressed charges on him, and he was facing an 8 year prison term.
This woman dropped charges on him, because she didn't want him to go to jail... she wanted to be with him. Once the charges were dropped, he dumped her and started pursuing my W through a friend of my W. <p>He has done this many times before, so he is not new at this game. This info came from friends of mine at the Police Dept.
OM has one problem though, and so does my W. It appears that my Attorney's are going to plead to the court that all the money she has stolen during our separation as well as cash withdrawls from my credit cards, should be her 50% of the settlement.<p>If the courts agree, then she will get very little, except her personal effects. <p>If that happens, OM and STBXW will have a feeding frenzy off of each other. They will be stealing and cheating on each other in very short time. On the other hand the OM will probably look for his next victim... leaving my stbx to fend for herself. Only time will tell though.<p>Do I think she realizes what she is giving up? I can't answer that, only she knows what is running through her head.<p>She is leaving a beautiful family that loved her dearly. A nice home (OM house looks like an old garbage dump) and stability.<p>His occupation? he is a garbage collector, that races cars at a local speedway here parttime. OM is D, and has 2 children that his X has.<p>My stbx met this OM through one her drunken girlfriends, who I never approved of.<p>Will she hit the wall at high speed? Probably, but when? I don't know.<p>Nothing has touched her so far, so maybe it will all go the way she wants. Only time will tell.<p>Do I think the MI is in touch with her? You bet I do, Mother's Day came and went, and W, would always make it a point to do something nice for her mother on Mother's Day, I don't see any reason why she would not at least call her to wish her a Happy Mother's Day.<p>Stay Strong!<p>Wallace<p>[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]<p>[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 06/08/02 09:06 PM
Wallace, RollMeAway, and Petvet:<p>Why is it that WS's almost always chose such pieces of work as their lovers? It's almost like there is a part of them that wants them to self destruct, their inner Satan you might say. <p>If it wasn't for the pain they have inflicted on us, they would have to be pitied for their choice of travelling 100mph on their highway to hell. Talk about the crash and burn at the end of the highway.<p>Maybe another acronym for WS should be HH for hellbound heart.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/09/02 12:35 AM
Toomuchcoffeman,<p>I wish I could answer your question. But now that you mention it, I've all of a sudden taken notice of this self destruct method myself.<p>It does appear that the WS's pick some real winners. It's liike an epidemic, which Petvet eluded to in an earlier post.<p>Most of them are going to do a crash and burn, and most of them including mine, will need someone to be there to pick-up the pieces. <p>I don't know about anybody else, but there is one problem my WS has... I am not going to be there for her to pick those pieces up for her, and I doubt anyone else in my family is going to be there for her either, she just doesn't realize it yet. In fact, I believe (I could be wrong), that when this is all said and done with, it is going to hit her like a ton of bricks, (At 100 mph).<p>Stay strong!<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/09/02 01:06 PM
RMA: No we have not talked yet. On Friday when she came to get kid, she told me that she was going to call me later that night, she never did (that was the third time she has said that to me this week). I don't know what is going on. I attended a church picnic that my inlaws invited me to and she was there with the kid but she did not discuss anything with me of importance. My thing is if she has something to say, say it and be done with it. She has not had any problem in the past expressing herself. She is a very talkative person. I have not been mean to her, but I have been all business. Now! this garden of yours. You must have acres of land for your garden. I have a small parcel that has not produced any eatable specimens so far. How can you have eatable specimens so soon? Mr. Garden expert (my next door neighbor) does not even have any eatable specimens yet. You must live in Napa Valley, California. PLEASE PLEASE tell me your secret, so that my little parcel can be the envy of Mr. Garden expert. I have some melons (got to have melons), cucumbers, greens (gotta have them too), and to be honest with you I have forgotton the rest.<p>SORRY EVERYONE FOR THE GARDEN OUTBURST! I HAVE TO FIND OUT HER SECRET. IT'S ONLY JUNE.<p>Wallace: You know Mr. Harvey said in his book that the WS will generally chose someone with the same human failings as themselves. Your W has really chosen a piece of work. I'm sorry that I asked because it makes your W look even worst.<p>Toomuchcoffee (I hope I'm saying it right): You are correct. Creps hand out together.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/09/02 09:20 PM
Hi All,<p>RMA,<p>Even though I didn't plant a garden this year (started to, then all hell broke loose), I would also like to get some good gardening tips.<p>Petvet<p>One good thing that is in your favor... you are still able to have a point of communication with your W, even if it's not up to snuff right at the moment.
Then next time you talk to your W, I would try to strike up a conversation with her that you both can find some common ground to communicate with each other on. It might be a good starting point. <p>IMO, it sounds like your "business as usual" may be annoying your W. Hence, she says she will call, and then doesn't. It may be her way of getting under your skin for the way she feels she is being treated at the moment. I could be way off base with that one though... just a thought.<p>I have to agree with you about WS's seeking out people with similiar shortcomings... how sad it all is.<p>Stay Strong!<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/10/02 11:10 AM
Wallace: I have absolutely no idea what W is up to. If she has something to say, she needs to say it. She has had plenty of opportunities. I don't think she is playing games. Since she lefted home, this is the third or fourth time she has done this but this is the first time she has indicated her desire to speak to me about something. You know something just came to me; in the past, sometimes when she would have something really important to say to me she would write me a letter. Due to the D, she probably does not want to write a letter. That was one of her problems was that she would not communicate with me face to face but by letter on some really important issues especially if it was about something she had done wrong. If she wants to talk to me, she will figure out a way. <p>Come on RMA, we need those secrets. My garden is waiting. Please don't tell me you have one of those million dollar irrigation systems. If that's the case,then back to the garden hose.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/10/02 02:40 PM
Petvet,

I understand about the communiction problem. My STBXW and I had a similiar problem.

Only problem with communicating with my STBXW, when she did say something... it was all lies. Maybe if she wrote it down, she would of thought a little harder about what she was doing.

Don't know what to make of your situation though.

Your situation is similiar to mine, with her coming and going all the time. I couldn't see the writing on the wall, until it was all said and done with.
After she left this last time... it all became very clear what in fact was really going on.

Something will break, It's just a matter of when, and what.

Wish I had more to offer you on this one.

Maybe RMA, or Dave can help out... by the way... Dave must be doing pretty good... we haven't heard from him in a while. Hope things are going well for him.

Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/10/02 08:17 PM
Dave: How did W initiate conversation with you to start the road back to recovery?<p>Answer:
Well, first I could tell things were starting to change by her actions, she was becoming more friendly and going out of her way to see me, she would also tell me things like - I will be home ALONE tonight if you need to reach me. The WS will find a way to have contact with you when they are done with the A and considering recovery, don't worry, she will find a way in and you will know that something is up. It will be a dramatic change from the Fog that they are in. My plan was to avoid as much contact as possible, but when you must have contact, and you will especially with children, be friendly, polite, etc, but limit the contact to what is necessary. I wanted to show her the person that I had become yet show her that she was giving this up, if that makes sense. Try not to do any LB or be revenageful, even if you have to suck it up once in a while.. ( I basically did the opposite of what I wanted to do alot of the times). For example, if subject of OM came up, instead of getting mad, I would just try to be as understanding as possible. I tried to think of her as having a mental condition(fog)and she couldn't help what she was doing, I loved her unconditionaly so even though I disapprove of her behavior I still loved her...
Hope this helps..<p>Wife moved back in this weekend, been very busy with the move ,etc... things are still going well.<p>Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 06/11/02 12:39 AM
Petvet,<p>So, you guys haven't talked??? No surprise, really. Your W is a classic conflict-avoider. Just stick to what has been working so far. It really is all you can do and all you need to do, too.<p>About my garden. Well, I really don't get any credit for this one. My boyfriend did it all. In less than 60 days, we have picked about a bushel and a half of green beans (off of one short row), some pole beans and had loads of radishes. The tomato bushes are laden, truly laden with tomatoes. Have cucumbers and squash on the vine, too. Only laggard is the lima beans. They have flowered but nothing on them and they are my favorite veggie (next to tomatoes), so I have been hoping and hoping, but nary a thing yet. <p>I have always been a gardener and done it myself. This guy I am now with also has this as an interest, and I asked him to put one in for me and it is incredible. His secrets are this: one large load of good topsoil and small load of mushroom compost from the nursery. Add to that the compost from composting since I moved into this house a year ago. Water, fertilizer and using a hoe everyday to keep the soil around the plants from compacting is it, guys. Those are all the secrets.<p>Davepr,<p>Glad your W is finally home. Keep your expectations as low as you can. Don't be surprised if her attemps are half-hearted. I hope not, but you have to be sorta prepared for that. You and your W are in my prayers!<p>Wallace, <p>Maybe your W didn't leave you as much as she just decided to leave behind all of her responsibilities. What do you think of that?? Could that be the case??

Too Much Coffee Man (hope I got that right!),<p>Welcome onto this thread. I am not sure about the attraction to the WS's weaknesses, but I would definitely say that the WS is attracted to someone who can provide him/her with whatever they felt was missing from the marriage. Of course, if makes no difference HOW these needs were missing, only that they were.<p>My experience is that it matters little what you have done for the WS in the past. That all seems to be forgotten - it is what are you doing for me right now?<p>All, I have picked more beans tonight, so need to get off line to get these snapped and canned. I am gonna be enjoying myself all winter long with these beans!<p>Take care, RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/11/02 02:26 AM
RMA,<p>I think you hit the nail right on the head. She is running away from all of her (I'll call them troubles), that are, and have, manifested themselves to a point of no return.<p>I have a question for everyone!<p>My BI called me tonight on my cell, and started to ask me questions about what I was doing.<p>During the conversation, he brought up to me that my STBXW had called him. He didn't say why or what they talked about, he just told me that he stated to her during the course of their conversation, "that she needed to give me an explanation of why she did the things she did, and that she should at least let everyone know her intentions". He stated that her reply to him was, "it's none of your business what I do", and then hung up on him. Does this get any stranger?<p>I asked him, "that is all she said", and he said it was.<p>He then asked me if I was going to continue with the D, and if so, was I going to move out of State after it was all said and done with? I told him that the D was going to go to the Courts.<p>I'm not real sure what I'm going to do as far as moving. I had been talking about moving for quite sometime, even before my life went in the dumper. He wanted to know where I was going to move, so like an idiot, I told him "Tampa Bay, Florida". Which I have been thinking about moving to, but probably not right away.
I don't know why I blurped that out... it just kind of caught me off guard, and I really didn't know what to say when he asked me... it sounded good at that moment. I should of not said anything in retrospect.<p>I also told him that in my heart I had forgiven WS for what she has done, but she needs to seek God's forgiveness, not mine.<p>My question (sorry it took so long to get to this part), is do you think I should not say anything to him about what might, or might not be going on in my life concerning my affairs and the D?
keep in mind, this is the same BI, that lives with my MI. I still believe that STBXW is in contact with her Mother. <p>I'm still good friends with my BI, but so is my STBXW.<p>Your input, and any other additional words of wisdom will be greatly appreciated.<p>Dave,<p>Glad to hear that things are woking out for you so far... keep up the good work... but stay on your toes.
I have been in this situation your in right now, and you see where I am.
So please stay on top of it all, I would like to see you both have the type of marriage that I know you truly want.
I hope it really works for you this time.<p>Stay Strong!<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/11/02 10:40 AM
RMA: Thanks for the garden tips. Watch out next door neighbor.I need to work order in my garden. Next door neighbor was tooling away in his garden yesterday when I arrived home from work.<p>Wallace: It seems to me that you are being scoped for information by your BI. Apparently, your BI is giving your W a hard time about what she is doing. Once again, you should not have told them your future plans. I would tell BI that if W wants to talk to you, she knows how to contact you. I think your MI may be afraid that you will move away with her grandkids and she will not be able to see them on a regular basis. If that's the case, your W may file a court petition trying to keep you from moving too far from her. Your W is still fighting this thing. She knows she is knee deep in _______ ,so she is trying to just survive and keep these together in her odd way. She knows she is in a mess. It seems that the inlaws are really giving your W the business. This may work to your advantage as far as getting her pointed toward your way. Don't give inlaws too much information. Think before you reply. That's my opinion. <p>Dave: I am still praying for you, man. Like RMA said, please keep your expectations low. Be cautious with your eyes and ears wide open.<p>Garden, here I come.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 06/11/02 12:10 PM
Wallace,<p>You remind me of me! I give away too much info, too. But, I am trying to work on that. A truthful answer would have been that you really haven't decided to move at all, and have considered several places. My concern would be her popping up on you later down the road. I would be thrilled if she would work on both her issues and your marriage. But, with her history with the forged checks, etc, I would be somewhat leary of her popping up unexpectedly.<p>Noone knows her heart for sure, and probably your W least of all. She is sorta drifting right now. She sure doesn't seem to have a spot picked out on the horizon that she is definitely heading for. No, she seems rather aimless. Your best hopes are to keep doing what you are doing. She has to decide to come back to port. All you can do is be there. Hang in there!<p>Petvet,<p>Teehee...I sense a contest with your neighbor coming on. Gardening is good for the body, soul, taste buds and for the budget, too! This will be good "therapy" for you. Get out there and whack the ground all you want! Take care.<p>RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/11/02 03:21 PM
Thanks for the advice all,

Petvet:

I think you are right about me being scoped for information. I think my BI has good intentions, but I'm not so sure that he may not be giving that information to my STBXW, or MI. I'm not real sure what to make of it.

I've decided to not give out anymore info to anyone on my STBXW's side of the family. In fact I'm not initiating any contact with them at all at this point.

Sticking with a hard Plan B and Plan D.

RMA:

Again, I think you are right on the numbers concerning my STBXW.
Regarding if she has any real plan, I'm not sure. We got a change of address notice from the Post Office yesterday, changing her home address to who knows where. So she is on the move to some where that is for sure.

IMHO, I think she is so ashamed and guilt ridden with what has been exposed since she has left. That she can't face anyone at this point, if ever.

I read, that WS's who go through this type of A, tend to move a distance away from family and friends, and have no contact with anyone for a very long period of time, while their A is ongoing.

So I'm sticking to my my Plan B and Plan D. I'm not changing directions on it, unless some miracle by chance happens, and I'm not looking for that to happen anytime soon.

In the end, It will be her loss, not mine, nor my childrens.

I'll be glad when this is all over.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 05:21 AM
Hi Wallace, I agree with your conclusion, I would avoid any conversation with MI or BI regarding STBXW. If MI and BI still want to be friends then fine, but the ground rules should be no discussion regarding the D, STBXW, etc. <p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> RMA, I think you hit the nail right on the head. She is running away from all of her (I'll call them troubles), that are, and have, manifested themselves to a point of no return.
<hr></blockquote>
I am learning alot about why my W has her A now that we are communicating fairly well. She has told me that she was not thinking clearly and was running away from her responsibilities as a parent, as a mother, and as a person. The OM was her ticket out. She said that she got to the point where she just could not take the kids all day (being a stay home mother), it was just too much stress. So, I think my W was doing the same thing as Wallace STBXW, running away from responsibilites/troubles. As we all know,you can run but you cannot hide, eventually it will catch up with them. My W has stated that she has learned alot from this, that instead of running she needs to face the problems, communicate them to me, and work out a solution to them. As an example, now she (we) are planning to put our youngest into day care for 2 days a week starting in Sept when our D goes back to school so that she does have a break durning the day.<p>Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/11/02 09:07 PM
Hi Dave,

Thanks for the insight of the thoughts of your W, and why she did the things she did. It puts things a little more into perspective.

In my case, I don't respect it, nor can I condone it. I think communicating to the other S, is a much better form of resolving the issues at hand. I guess that is why I am in the shape I'm in. STBXW chose the opposite way of communicating... it got my attention though, but not in a positive way. In fact it was the most destructive things she could of done concerning our M.

In the last couple of years, STBXW's communication skills dropped to about zero regarding much of anything. It was not that I had cut off talking with her. On the contrary, I begged her to open up and let me know if there was anything that I could do for her.
She was probably withdrawn from the marriage at that point and I didn't realize it.

Anyway, I get the feeling from you Dave, that maybe I should pull back from proceeding with the D, that maybe I should give this some time, or am I reading that wrong?

It is a definite plus that you and your W are communicating with each other. I believe that communication in a M is critical, without it, there will be problems for sure.
keep up the good work!

Sorry, I had to vent a litle on this one. It gets so frustrating sometimes.

Stay Strong!

Wallace<p>[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 01:35 AM
davepr,<p>Sounds like things are starting off on the right foot! Gosh, I am so encouraged for you and your W. You are both in my prayers. I think a break for her is going to be a definite plus.<p>Wallace,<p>My best advice to you and anyone else regarding getting a divorce is this: do NOT file unless you want to be divorced. If you can see no end to her affairs, if you see no hope that she has any interest in wanting to come home and wanting to change, if you have lost desire to have her as a partner, if you have begun to feel that your life will be better off without her and her drama in it, then.....really begin to consider what your life will be like without her in it. Consider divorce and be honest about the plusses and the minuses to you and the kids. Then, once you make up your mind - sit on your decision awhile; pray on that decision before doing anything.<p>When you get a certain peace in your heart - that you are incredibly sad but know it will all work out OK somehow, then you file for divorce. <p>If you feel all these things, then keep the course - you are likely doing what needs to be done now. If you have any doubts about yourself, your own feelings or whether or not your W might want to reconcile in the near future, then stop the proceedings for a bit. They can always be re-initiated in the future, if need be. You need to listen to your inner voice - that is God answering your prayers and leading you.<p>Petvet,<p>Hope you are having a good day.<p>RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 03:10 AM
Hi RMA,<p>I have stared at this whole D situation that I have in front of me and thought and prayed about it for hours.<p>There will always be doubts in my mind concerning this issue. So much damage has been done in this marriage, only the Lord can save it I believe.<p>My W, in the past 2 yrs. has done the following, (most of which has happened in the last 4 months)<p>Left our home and children (4 times) not counting now, which will be 2 months to the day and counting this Friday, and she has still not attempted to make contact with any of her children.<p>Has had multiple A with OM, which I believe is still ongoing.<p>Got pregnant by OM.<p>Got an abortion. (This is suppose to be a Christian woman - Pro-Life).<p>Stole money, forged checks (one was to pay for the abortion)on my personal checking accounts, not hers. <p>Maxed out my personal credit cards for cash only advances (Thousands of dollars).<p>Took household items from our home and took them to pawn shops and sold them.<p>This is suppose to be my W, who I took vows to love and to cherish, till death do us part. If I remember correctly she took the same vows as I did.<p>Excuse me, if i am getting a little excited, but just writing this list makes me ill.<p>Reconciliation, remorse, I don't even think she knows what those words mean anymore. She is not feeling any of what those words mean.<p>So RMA, I think you can see what I'm left with. It's pretty much a no brainer I think.<p>I wish it wasn't so, but it is. Unless God creates some miracle, then I am left with no choice but to continue with the D, as sad as it all is.<p>You speak words of wisdom, if only I could of found this site, before all this transpired... things may not of turned out the way they did.<p>May God Bless you!<p>Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 10:41 AM
Wallace: I went through the same inner turmoil concerning the D case. I finally listened to the inner voice and dropped my case only to have wifey to refile against me three days later. I am forging ahead with the business at hand. I have no other choice. Now, she is fighting against paying child support. After listening to what Dave's W told him, that goes along with my thoughts that my W left to avoid full time responsibilities as wife and mother. Now, she is the proud distinction of being a visitor and visitied by kid. She wanted the single life, so that she could do whatever she wanted when she wanted. She wanted no accountability whatsoever. She still has not had the DISCUSSION with me. There was a time when this woman could tell me anything. Now, she cannot hold a serious discussion with me but only small talk. This is a very STUPID breakup that what makes me so angry about this thing. If she treated me like she did when she was trying to get me in the first place, she could turn this marriage around but that would take some effort from her. Dr. Laura tells people this all the time when they say that they have fallen OUT OF LOVE. If these folks continue with their OUT OF LOVE views, they will be in and out of relationships every two to three years if not sooner.<p>RMA: I'm not in a competition with neighbor per say but I just want my garden to look like his spread. He deserves the accolades because he really works hard.<p>Dave: Keep up the good work.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 03:42 PM
Petvet,

Unfortunarely, I believe that my W and your W both have the same distinction of wanting to live the single life again , and dispose of any responsibilities that they have had.

I agree with you when you quoted Dr.Laura.

I know that if I did decide to drop or put the D on hold, my STBXW, would indeed turn around and and file within a short period of time such as yours did.

I never really had any intentions of holding back. I do believe that if we had a clear line of communication between each other, we may in fact be able to work past all the issues, and work through this.

My BI called me again last night, and told me that in fact my stbxw and my MI are in contact. He said that MI bought a used living room chair from the people that live across the street. He said he believes it's for STBXW's new residence. because the chair is still at neighbors... MI didn't bring it home.
Probably STBXW and the Om will pick it up this weekend and tek it to her new home.

Also stated that W is denying A, as well as everything else. She is stating that I was physically abusing her, so that is why she left. When I heard this, It hurt. I could not believe what I was hearing. At first I didn't understand why she would make a statement such as this.
My STBXW knows I have never physically abused her. My children would never stand by me if in fact that was the case. In fact, the day she left our home I was at work. We had not been in any type of an arguement for quite some time. I though we were doing pretty good.

My only explanation for her statement (and I'm still brain crunching this one) is she may be using this excuse to try to mask the horrible acts she has committed in our marriage, to validate her actions in her own mind as well as others so It looks like I'm the bad guy in everybodys eyes.

I never wanted a good guy versus bad guy situation. I just wanted to have a good M.

I am guilty of one thing though... I did a horrible Plan A. I was not meeting her EN's. I was not aware of it at the time, because I didn't realize the amount of time I needed to expend to meet W's EN's until I found this site.

Anyway, it seems like my STBXW has stooped to a new level by making these physical abuse statements. I'm still trying to figure out why this physical abuse statement was made. It really hurts me to hear these type of statments made about me. I have always tried to be the best H I could be. Never, would I ever try to hurt her physically . My STBXW knows in her heart these statements are not true. Our situation just seems to get worse as each day passes. As I stated in an earlier post, I believe only God could save this marriage.

I would appreciate any ideas as to why you might think she would make a statement like this. This hurts just as bad as all the rest of things that has happened here lately.

Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 03:59 PM
Wallace, <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> It is a definite plus that you and your W are communicating with each other. I believe that communication in a M
is critical, without it, there will be problems for sure.<hr></blockquote> Yes, I totally agree. I think the running away from issues/responsibilites has alot to do with how the person was brought up. I know from my W experience that she came from a broken home, that her father left their mother and 3 children when she was only 3 years old, her mother was a non influence in her life, my W learned no responsibilty and the only lesson she did learn was how to run away when things got tough. When things went wrong for her with our mariage, the stress of the children, etc, she did the only things she knew how to do - run.
I don't have alot of sympthy for people that run away from life but it was the only thing she knew how to do... but she finally "crashed and burned". She could not longer run away and the things that she ran from were the things that she missed, ie the children/me. She was then faced with two choices, run futher to get away from the pain or face reality, she choice to face reality and work on the issue, that I can respect. So in one hand while I don't respect what she did and she is accountable as she is an adult, it was the only thing she knew how to do, and I do respect that for once in her life she is going to work things out instead of running away from them.<p> <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> Anyway, I get the feeling from you Dave, that maybe I should pull back from proceeding with the D, that maybe I
should give this some time, or am I reading that wrong?<hr></blockquote>
RMA can a great reply to this, I cannot add much more. Only you can decide this.. from your postings I know that deep down inside you want your marriage and your family back but the pain from what she did is so great and she would really have to make a committment to work on her issues as she obviously has many. I can only believe that there must be some kind of childhood issues to make her do the things she is doing? She seems to have done a 180 from the person that you knew and loved. All I can say is that it is possible for the WS to face reality and make a committment to work out their issues. I believe this is the first time in 33 years that my W is going to finish what she started, face reality, and make this work. Of course some people will make the choice that they will continue to run and not face reality, I think you need to decide how long you are willing to wait for something that may or may not ever happen, only you can answer that. Of course if you decide to wait and it does happen,there are alot more bridges you will need to decide to cross or not. Either way, you are going to be a better, stonger person for the experience.<p>Petvet, <blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr> After listening to what Dave's W
told him, that goes along with my thoughts that my W left to avoid full time responsibilities as wife and mother.
Now, she is the proud distinction of being a visitor and visitied by kid. She wanted the single life, so that she
could do whatever she wanted when she wanted. She wanted no accountability whatsoever. She still has not had
the DISCUSSION with me. There was a time when this woman could tell me anything. Now, she cannot hold a
serious discussion with me but only small talk.<hr></blockquote> You know the old saying "be careful of what you wish for" You WS wanted the single life, no responsibility, etc, so now she got it. Sit back, be patient, and wait and see, my bet is that she will find out that this is NOT what she really wanted.
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>This is a very STUPID breakup that what makes me so angry about
this thing. If she treated me like she did when she was trying to get me in the first place, she could turn this
marriage around but that would take some effort from her. Dr. Laura tells people this all the time when they say
that they have fallen OUT OF LOVE. If these folks continue with their OUT OF LOVE views, they will be in and out
of relationships every two to three years if not sooner. <hr></blockquote>
I think most of the breakups are STUPID.. I am not so sure she has fallen out of love although my guess is that she tells you this, mine did too, I think it is more confusion, they think they have fallen out of love, they think the grass is greener on the other side, etc, it is all part of the fog... when reality comes back, and I believe it will, my hope is that she will realize that she still loves you. I think the best advise is to give her what she wants, if she wants to be single, to not be a full time parent, etc, let her go, I believe that it will come back to bite her.
Hang in there..<p>Wallace, Petvet, RMA - thanks for your prayers and kind words... each day seems to get better, I believe we are truely on the road to recovery this time... we went to chuch on Sunday as a family, first time in almost a year, what a great feeling.
The kids are so happy to have both of us there in the morning when they get up, our littlest one doesn't know who to hug in the morning, he has not seen both of us there in the morning since he was 6 months old so this is like brand new to him.
Take care and God Bless,
Dave
Posted By: elainenrt Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 04:44 PM
You all seem so strong, how do you do it. My H had an affair for 14 months with a coworker. She has moved to another state but they still communicate through email and by phone. He tells her that he wants to move there with her and he tells me that he wants to stay with me. He said he wants to keep his options open with her in case I throw him out. I would like to throw him out but I am afraid to lose him. I am about to try some tough love.
Posted By: willmakeitwork Re: Tough Love - 06/13/02 05:21 AM
Dear Wallace:<p>Sorry to interrupt this thread and I know this is MB, however you have significant issues that most of us do not face.<p>a) Theft of family assets. Forgery etc<p>b) Abandonment<p>c) Lies to third parties of crimes on your part.<p>d) The potential for further crimes (because of drugs or whatever) that could effect your own credit standing or family assets.<p>It is important for your kids and yourself that you finalize complete financial and custodial separation now. Get CS as required by law from W.<p>You are in protect the family mode right now.<p>If W comes to her senses and you so desire you can both rebuild. You must protect your family now<p>Just my two cents<p>My prayers go out to you and your kids.<p>Jack
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/13/02 05:58 AM
Willmakeitwork,

Thank you for your input concerning my situation.

You are right about what I am facing and have been involved with... it is quite significant.

To answer your question bout CS, and the like.

Temp.orders have already been put in place by the Courts. Of course collecting CS is a whole other matter. I am waiting to hear from attorneys as far as the next court date as of this moment for the final hearing.

There are safeguards in place as we speak, to protect my family. They are my #1 priority as far as their well being is concerned.

Still working on the Credit card and forgery issues... those are not as easy to clear up unfotunately as most of the other items were.

Thank you for your 2 cents worth, it is appreciated.

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 06:11 PM
elainernt,

I can only speak for myself on being so strong while going through my situation.

In my case, I have no choice but to Stay Strong!

I have my children to take care of. I have no choice but to gather up everything I have in order to maintain.

I give my thanks to the God for that. Without his guidance, I'm not so sure I would or could make it through all of this.

In regards to your situation, I would work on Plan A with your H, before I would even think of going to a "Tough Love" approach.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 06:46 PM
Dave,

Thank you for the response.

I'm in agreement with what you, Petvet, and RMA had stated about the continuing with the D.

It seems all of our S's, have some of the very same characteristics, mine just took her way of dealing with problems to the farthest extreme.

Keep up the good work Dave, glad things are still working.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 07:32 PM
RMA: Well well well, I finally found out what W wanted to talk about. She called me this morning and wanted to schedule a meeting. BINGO! Do I know my W or what? She wants me to meet with her to finalize an agreement. She says I am dragging things out. She wants this thing finish, now.I told her with some reservation that I would listen to what she had to say, but I could not guarantee her that I would agree to anything until I heard what she had to say. She got angry and said that it would be a waste of her time to meet with me and not obtain an agreement. I said that's your decision. Listen everyone, SHE WANTS ME TO AGREE TO SOMETHING WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT'S ON THE TABLE. I was sooooooo insulted. OK, I have cooled down.<p>Elainenrt: Think things though, set your boundaries (what you will and will not accept), give WS a choice, and based on his choice you act accordingly. Be firm. Let him know you are all business.<p>When you are involve in this stuff, you have to be strong to survive. <p>Willmakeitwork: Good advice to Wallace. I agree 100%.<p>Dave: Thanks.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 07:40 PM
Wallace: Get ready. She may try to use this against you in court. I hope you have alot of evidence against her. She wants sympathy from her family amd friends. She is trying to hide her stuff, and MI has brought her story, apparently. I would not have any contact with MI, period.<p>GET READY. Money, money, money, she intends to come in through the back door. Watch you back. Protect yourself, buddy.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/12/02 10:58 PM
Petvet,

Keep dragging your feet... and don't agree to anything your W wants until you read it first... and then foot drag your feet some more, until you are absolutley sure it's something you can live with and want to do.

I agree with you on my stbxw trying to come in through the backdoor on me. How could Iexpect anything less at this stage.

I have plenty of evidence against WS concerning the things she has done, and I think that is why she is trying to bring this lie of hers to life.
If I did half the things she is contending I did, I would be sitting in jail as I speak right now.

It's a very low blow, and she won't get away with it in Court.

She is so use to lying all the time, you would think that at some point in her life she would grow up, and start telling the truth for a change and start living in reality.

My children know that I have never physically harmed my wife ever. They volunteered to testify in Court on my behalf that it is a lie she has created, that it has never ever happened. My children know, they live in the same house and have for a very long time. They know what has gone on in our home.

It's my opinion, that she is going to use that lie, to try to minimize the evidence we have against her. I unfortunately have plenty.

Petvet, don't you just hate being right sometimes. You knew that your W had something to talk to you about that you probably were not going to like. I'm sorry that your situation didn't take a turn for the better.

You need to watch yourself as well, it looks like things are going to start to heat up.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/13/02 01:00 PM
Petvet, I agree with Wallace that things may heat up with your situation, protect yourself but try to keep your temper with WS. When she asks for things that are unreasonable, sounds like this is already starting, simply keep your cool and calmy state that you cannot agree to this... remember my
W (WS at the time) asked me to pay for her to get her tubes ties, obviously so she could have unprotected sex with OM. How insulating to me! It is hard to keep your cool when you get these outragious requests but do it anyway, you will be better in the long run and you can probably expect some outragious things when they are in the fog.
Take care Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 06/14/02 01:43 AM
Petvet,<p>Gosh - what a revolving door your W is going through. She just runs around in circles!!! I agree with everyone on this one - don't agree to squat unless it runs through your lawyer and you know what you are commiting to. I am sorry - but if things don't turn out to your W's advantage....well, that is just a consequence of her bad choices, so too bad for her! You are a good man and a great father. To copy Wallace, stay the course, friend!<p>Wallace, you have your head screwed on straight about this entire mess. God bless you - you see all of your W's issues and you still care so much even though you hurt so much. To me the true test of love is that your mate does not have to be perfect....truly, none of us is....but that she would feel remorse for hurting you, the children and most of all HERSELF. I pray for your W as she is in dire need of many, many prayers. You are doing great despite all of your hurts and disappointments.<p>davepr, So happy to hear things are continuing to go well! I am really, really pulling for you guys to be one of MB's best success stories!!!!<p>elaine and will make it thru this, welcome to this humble thread. \<p>Elaine, all I can say is that you will make it through this. Do your best Plan A and also do your best to be respectful and tryt o meet all of yout H's most important EN's. This is what you can impact - your own actions and nothing more. <p>willmakeitthroughthis, you gave Wallace some sound legal advice - thanks! It isa hard to fight the urge to want to help the one you love and have loved for so long. But at some point, one must learn to be responsible for themselves and no amount of "assistance" for another will really help at all. Hope that things are going well for you,<p>RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/14/02 03:54 AM
Hello All,<p>RMA,<p>I just want to thank you for your kind words and Prayers for my W. You know my heart concerning my situation.
I had to finish signing the final disclosure papers today at my attorneys today. I had to laugh to myself while siging them, I'm the only one disclosing anything concerning this D. It just doesn't seem fair, but what are you going to do.
While signing the papers today, I finally decided to let go... of my marriage as sad as I am to say.
So we are going to be rolling here for the final hearing in the not to distant future.<p>Dave,<p>Whatever your doing, keep doing it. I have to agree with RMA, I think you are going to be one of the happy ending stories on these boards. I'm truly happy for your success on having your W back with you. It's like a whole new beginning, and for that I'm pleased for both you and your W.<p>Petvet,<p>I have you in my prayers as well, I know you will fight for your M like I did. I can only pray that your outcome will turn out better than mine. Let God lead your path.<p>Elaine,<p>You can stay strong as well, it's a tough fight that we all face. But if you have the resolve to put the MB practices in place you can salvage your M.<p>WillMakeItWork,<p>Thank you for the sound legal advice, your advice was heeded.<p>Stay Strong!<p>Wallace<p>[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/14/02 06:37 AM
RMA: Thanks for your kind words. Yes, I am not agreeing to anything with out my attorney's advice and serious thought on my part. She makes hasty decisions. Not surprisingly she is angry, she has not called the house since she asked me to meet her. I am so glad that I don't have that evil in my house. I am grateful for what I have. I have my kid. Being a single parent has been tough, but I am grateful and can say thanks. I am looking forward to vacations with kid this summer. I am thankful and it's even better because I have peace in my life. I look forward to coming home now. My future is bright and the kid will be better too once he gets stability. I don't need or want evil in my life.I'm going to let the legal process take its course. It will be over sooner or later. If she comes around (I doubt it), I will cross that bridge will I get to it. Until then, I am staying the course. I have
peace now. <p>Wallace: Buddy, it appears our marriages are headed to the same end. I should be getting discovery soon from my w's attorney. I am going to be happy to disclose what I have on my wife. After that, it will only be a matter of time. I do not know about you; I am going to come out of this better than when I arrived. I have decided to spread my wings and soar high into the sky. All I want out of my situation are the things of value. My losses. When we made our vows before God, as I remember the phrase "for better or worst etc etc etc" "through sickness etc etc" it are times like these when you know whether you have a spouse who has value. My point is we might not have had anything of value in the way of wives in the first place. I know it's a harsh statement, but you and I have to face consequences for our choices for wives. What kind of woman would abandon the marital home and their children? A woman? On the web site divorcebusting.com, these women are refered to as "walkaway wives". Our wives may come around at some point, but I am not waiting for mine to change her mind. Throughout life, we have to sometimes drop people from our lives who prove to be dangerous to our well being. You and I are at that point.<p>Dave: apparently, you have a wife of value. She has a backbone. I hope it works out. What gets my attention is that she has repented. That took guts. She is making the right moves. Value and values!<p>All: I have peace at home, now; what a feeling. I decided to take a right turn.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/14/02 02:22 PM
Wallace/Petvet:
You and your families are in my prayers, I don't know what else to say, you both are doing great and will be stonger for going through this. I am sorry for your pain... When my W left me for the third time for OM, I also gave up, we were legally seperated and heading for a divorce on Aug 04. She came back and I crossed that bridge when I got to it. Some times you have no choice but to let go and I know from reading alot of other posts on MB that sometimes letting go is what gets them back, and if not then you have started your healing/recovery process.
Stay stong,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/15/02 05:37 AM
Petvet,

I can only pray for you and your W, that your situation does a major turnaround.
I have to agree with Dave, that sometimes going through the D, sometimes sets reality more into focus... and people start to realize just what they are giving up and where their life is headed for... Only time will tell.

In my situation, I'm not looking for any turnarounds to happen. I believe it will go all the way, and unfortunately it will end that way.

I am mentally ready to move on. I believe ofcourse that there will be set backs. But, you pick yourself back up again, and continue your journey.

I'll keep you in my prayers, because I know your situation.

Dave,

Thank you for keeping us in your thoughts and prayers, you don't know how much that helps. keep up the good work, you earned it.

RMA,

Your kind words have helped me greatly, and for that I thank you.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/14/02 06:41 PM
My computer is double posting again.<p>[ June 14, 2002: Message edited by: Wallace ]</p>
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/19/02 04:07 PM
Hi Wallace, RMA, Petvet: Have not heard from you much this week, hope all is well. I will be out of town until Monday. Hope everyone has a great weekend. You are in my prayers.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/20/02 10:47 AM
Dave: I hope things are still going well with your family. Nothing has changed on my end. I'm just waiting for D day. Have a nice weekend.<p>Wallace and RMA: I hope things are going well.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/20/02 02:50 PM
Hi All,

Well a little has changed on my end.

My attorneys seem to just be spinning their wheels and wasting my money for the moment concerning the D.

I put them on hold. I asked them what good is all this if we can't locate her, or she doesn't show up for court? They said the outcome would probably be worse. They would prefer to have her get an attorney and a get the process moving and show up for the final hearing.

They stated it would work to my advantage if she would grow up and get this over with. They don't understand her thinking. I'm not sure if anybody understands her thinking... including herself.

They said just sit on it, and let her make the next move, and then we will counter.

This could be a long wait, but I'm sure she will come around and file a motion for D.

That is about it for the moment on my end.

Dave:

Glad to hear things are still in good shape, keep up the good work.

Petvet:

Sorry to hear that nothing has changed on your end. Hang in there, I know how you are feeling.

RMA:

How is everything going for you?

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/29/02 09:42 AM
Hi Dave, Wallace, RMA: How are things going? It seems as though things have really calm down quite a bit among ourselves.

Dave: How are things going with you? By the way, what kind of visitation schedule for kids did you have in place during your separation? I recently tried to implement a everyother weekend deal with wifey, and she went crazy. She does not think think that anything should be done until a ruling comes down from a judge.

Wallace: How have you been doing? Has there been any changes?

RMA: What's up with you?

Me: Same old stuff. I have a child support hearing next month to get support from W. I think she is unrealistic about the consequences that she is going to face.

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 06/30/02 12:43 PM
Petvet, davepr and Wallace,

I have been on vacation. Also, just enjoying the summer alot. Not getting here as often. You guys are in my daily prayers. Just know that one day all of this will unrest will be settled. It is a tough time for you all (even you, davepr, in the beginning of recovery) but you will survive it all and happiness will be a part of your daily life once again, if you let it.

God bless you all - RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/01/02 11:27 AM
Hi RMA: I'm glad you are enjoying your summer. My garden is doing pretty good. It is producing string beans like crazy. Based on your experience, is every other weekend is the normal visitation rule? I was just wondering.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/01/02 02:53 PM
Hi Petvet, Dave, RMA,
Sounds like gardening is the in thing to do. I didn't plant one this year... first year ever in 23 yrs.
Nothing really new on my end. Still moving very slowly on the big "D".
My BIL saw my "I don't know when she will be my ex-wife". drive past our house yesterday. Going on 2-3/4 months and still no contact from her.
I wonder if there is an abbreviation for a STBXW, that you could use in my case... since who knows when this "D" is ever going to get over with.
I'm hearing from a few people that she is really having a real wing-ding out there. Sounds like she has a new OM, in addition to her current OM. She is a real piece of work.
I have a question, maybe you can give me some insight.
WW knows there is a "D" pending, but she will not cooperate with my attorney by calling him and coming up with an equitable agreement. She has not got herself an attorney. She is just doing absolutely nothing but having a good time. I don't get it, could someone please possibly shed some light on this for me.
Oh by the way, MIL, has been in contact with WW since Day one.
BIL is now living at my house told me everything that he could about what he saw and heard about WW (he lived with MIL, his W wants a "D" as well). They threw him out when he discovered what was really going on.
BIL told me that my WW would call MIL everyday to see if I had called up there and wanted to know everything I said. MIL is helping WW with furnishing WW's new apartment.
MIL also lied, told WW that I have a new girlfriend which is a lie... lying seems to run on their side of the family.
Petvet,
Anything new on your end?
DAVE,
Hope things are going well for you and your W.
RMA,
Thank you for your prayers, hope your garden is doing well.
Stay in touch!
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ July 01, 2002, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/02/02 08:34 AM
Hi Wallace: Boy, you have quite a mess on your hands. Did you and your MIL ever get alone? She is really going overboard in helping your WW.Could your attorneys just phyically serve her papers whereby she would only have a ceryain number of days to respond and if she does not, she loses the case? I find it interesting that she called your MIL everyday to see whether you had called. At least she is thinking about you? She is afraid to face you and the consequences of her actions. Are you sure the BIL is telling you the truth? Has you inlaws and their relatives always been this wacky?

I guess things are going well for Dave.

Me: Well, there has been really no change; however, I expect things could get a little exciting on July 18th because that is when I have a temporary child support hearing. I'm trying to get child support from her along with attorney fees because she is working a full time job but has given me nothing in the way of support for the kid and she has refuse any type of support request I have made. She is still coming to the house to wash clothes, using the phone while washing clothes, using a/c and fan, etc.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/02/02 03:17 PM
Hi Petvet,
Did I ever get along with my MIL. Lets put it this way... there is no love lost between each of us. We tolerate each other.
She has been trying to break up my marriage for the last 23 yrs.. She has done that with all her children. She succeeded with one, and now she has two on the burners as we speak... mine and my BIL. MIL put her "H" in his grave at the age of 55. She is also a real piece of work.
MY BIL'S wife is wanting a "D" as well. Guess who is behind the curtains on that stage concerning my BIL's marriage... my MIL.
I use to call them the Asylum when I spoke about them... my wife hated when I did that. I should not of called them that... but, I was just calling it as I saw it. So to answer your question... yes they are all wacked out in the head. It's a genetic mutation that has infected them all, LOL.
We could serve WW papers if we could locate her, but that still doesn't mean she would show up. Some people are saying that she doesn't think she wants to get a "D", that she may want to work it all out, but she is too ashamed at what she did to come forward. I'm not sure if I'm buying that line.
Sounds like you have a real problem with your W and these custody issues. I have not hit that problem yet. At the moment I have full custody, and without WW showing up for anything... it doesn't look like it's going to be a problem.
Hang in there.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/02/02 10:19 PM
Wallace: There may be hope with your marriage. Your WW does not seem to much in a hurry to get a D. Your MIL should be ashame of herself. You guys may have to move away from her. She must be very controlling.

The reason why I say that things will get interesting after the hearing because she has yet to experience any consequences; she is still living like a single person without any responsibilities other than herself.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/02/02 10:45 PM
Hi Petvet,
Im not so sure if she doesn't want the "D" or if she has just blown through all the money and can't afford an attorney right now. Or, she could be perfectly content just to leave it the way it is.
She is living the single life, while I have all the headaches. So she just might be content to leave it that way.
I really don't see much hope for my "M".
I feel like I need to make the break, because I'm getting real tired of living in limbo, and I would just as soon get it over with.
How are you making out on your end? Anything new with the Custody issue's. I know it gets very frustrating at times... almost maddening.
Hang in there.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/03/02 10:47 AM
Wallace: Something has to give sooner or later in your situation. You may need to file a missing person's report or something. I thought you had located where she was. If you filed a missing persons' report, maybe your MIL would have to tell authorities where your WW is, but you cannot let her keeping your in limbo like this. You are letting her set the agenda and controlling things. I do not think I have a custody issue, but a financial one. She does not want to come out of her pocket.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/03/02 03:30 PM
Petvet,
We had located her, but she moved... and now we don't know where she is. I could put out a skip trace out on her, but she would just move again and not show up for court.
I know she is setting the agenda, but I don't know how to stop her from doing it.
I'm open for suggestions on how to turn this thing around.
So the final issue for you is financial at this point. That usually is the final sticking point.
Hang in there.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/04/02 11:38 AM
Wallace: I think once she is served papers if she does not show up for court she would be in contempt. Right? So she can move all she wants, but she would have been served the papers. Ask your attorneys. As far my situation is concern, I don't think money is a sticky point as much as I think that once she is hit with heavy financial consequences, she will sit down and think very serious about what she is doing. I will be away for a couple of days. Heading to Florida this morning. I'll be in touch on Monday.

Oh! by the way, what has happened to the other two folks?

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/04/02 12:56 PM
Petvet,

Happy 4th of July! Have a safe trip and try to enjoy yourself!

Wallace,

I think your W is trying to duck the CONSEQUENCES of the divorce, more than the actual divorce. Chris123's W was missing for over 2 years and he was able to get divorced by doing what Petvet said - running it in the local papers. Also, from what I can recall, he did not fare badly out of this at all. If you want to know the particulars, you may want to start a thread addressed to him and I am sure he will explain what he did and what happened. Don't let her absence deter you, but also don't try to read more into this than may really be there. Your W is a hurt individual who has many serious issues. Your marital problems are only one portion of it. She has much to face up to and years of serious, hard work ahead of her. To me, she is not showing any signs whatsoever that she is willing at all to face anything about herself or your marriage.

Nonetheless, God bless you for your continued caring of her. Have a wonderful Fourth with your family....

RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/08/02 03:24 PM
Hi All,
I hope eveyone had a good 4th of July.
I'm back from a much needed rest... which I didn't get.
RMA... I believe you are exactly right on your assessment of my WW.
I am moving forward with the "D", she is going to be divorced... I am not pulling back.
She has done everything you could do the wrong way. She has very serious issues, of which I want no part of.
Thanks for the advice RMA, it is much appreciated.
Petvet, Dave,
How are you all doing? You still with us?
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 07/09/02 05:49 AM
Hi everyone,
I am back after a week offf work and a family vacation to the beach. Glad to see eveyone is dong well given the situations.... Hope everyone had a good fourth....

Wallace, I am not surprised to hear about your stbxw's family... that does explain somethings...
I think if your stbxw is calling and asking about you then there are still some feelings there but unless she ever gets to the point that she deals with her issues then there is no hope. I pray that your pending D snaps her out of this mess she has created for everyone..

Petvet, sorry things are not changing for you.... there was something I read in your post from last week about your WW coming over to do laundry, etc, is there anyway that your lawyer can prevent her from doing this? I know the house is still hers but given the situation can you do
a propertly settlement or anything? Your WW has not yet seen reality, maybe it will take a D for her to see it, not sure but she still has it too good right now. Hang in there..

Things are still going well on my end, we had MC this AM, the session went well. My biggest issue is trying to let go of the past and move forward, I am struggling to do this but I know that if our marriage is to work I need to forgive and move forward but it is a very difficult thing to do.

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/08/02 06:31 PM
Dave,
It's good to hear that things are moving forward with your "M".
I can relate to what you are saying, "not being able to put things in the past".
I know that would be my major stumbling block. With all that you know, and I know with our W's I'm sure it is very hard to block that out.
For me, I don't think I could get past it... but that's just me... to much damage done.
Keep up the good work Dave.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/09/02 12:52 AM
davepr,

You wrote:My biggest issue is trying to let go of the past and move forward, I am struggling to do this but I know that if our marriage is to work I need to forgive and move forward but it is a very difficult thing to do.

RMA response: Dave, it will likely take a long time to work through this issue, but it can be done. Your feelings of resentment might even get worse before they get better, so now that your W is home, you might relax a bit and "allow" yourself to really feel what is deep inside of you. It takes a long time to get over these feelings, dave. Just keep trying. If your heart is true about wanting to forgivr, the forgiveness will come in due time. I admire you and your W very much. I never expected perfection in my own marriage - just persistance and caring. Both of your efforts for your marriage will not be wasted, no matter what the outcome of your reconciation attempts.

Wishing ytou both much love and success, RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/09/02 06:17 AM
Hi guys and gals! I'm back! Kid and I had a blast in Florida over the holidays. I had to literally drag kid off the beach to get home. Wifey wanted to go on the trip as well but could not get off work. She complained again that I was taking her time away from kid this past weekend. Dave, the anwser to your question as to whether I could keep wifey from the house is no. She is part owner and she can come and go as many times as she wants anytime she wants and there is not a d--- thing I can do about it until an agreement in signed-sealed-and delivered. She has it made. We have a child support hearing next week and I cannot wait. As I have said before, she has yet to feel the consequences. You know, I'm like Wallace, I'm not to sure I want her back. The only way I will accept her back is unless she makes a decision to be marriage to me regardless of my imperfections. Once someone decides that they want to be marriage, then problems can be resolved and the marriage can be saved; otherwise, it's a waste of time. Love is a conditional commitment to an imperfect person. Like Wallace's W, my wonderous beauty has many issues that I am not going to deal with unless she is committed to doing what's best for the marriage and will STOP doing things that hurt the marriage. I don't mean to come off as though I don't have issues, but I try to acknowledge my problems and resolve them so that they don't hurt the marriage. I am willing to forgive my wife, but she has to repent and acknowledge what she has done.

Dave, keep up the hard work. As long as she is willing to work with you, stay with it.You will never forget, but she will never forget what she did to you and the kids either. Once you and her have fill up your love banks, you will think less and less about the other guy and what he did. Love is much more than a physical thing. You have all of her; the OM(the loser) just had his three minutes. Maybe this will make you and your W bond stronger than ever before.

RMA, how is LOVEVILLE for you? Did you cook over the holiday's? Tell me a little of the menu. I know had a large array of tasty meats, vegetables, etc. Oh! my okra is growing nicely. My melons have yet to show any promise. As I was driving down I-75 last week in south Georgia, I past farms that had melons so large you could see them from the interstate.

Wallace, you are going to be OK. RMA was right. You can proceed with your D even though WW is trying to throw you a curve. You and I seem to be in the same boat.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 07/09/02 02:12 PM
Thanks everyone.... RMA, you are totally correct, my resentment is getting worse... I think that I fought for so long to get my marriage back, and now that I have it back my focus has shifted from fighting for the marriage to dealing with what has happened. I know that time will make things better, we are doing well, establishing some good communications lines, and accepting that neither of us are perfect, the marriage will never be perfect, but we will work on the issues instead of running from them, learn from our mistakes, and try to make things better.

Petvet/Wallace, I agree that you should not even consider working on your marriage, given the opportunity, unless your WS does a 180 and commits to working on her issues and working on and accepting the marriage as per your vows. I am still in shock at how quickly my W did a 180, I am not sure if this is typical or not for a WS but once she started coming out of the fog she came out as fast as she went in. Yesterday in MC, she talked about how the entire A seems like a nightmare,that it wasn't her, that her mental state was so bad, that she can not believe she did what she did, how the OM brain washed her into thinking this was the right thing to do, etc. RMA, do you know if this is typcial for a WS after she comes out of the fog? Is the Fog really an alterned mental state? My W is on 10mg of Paxil, this seems to be helping her alot, she started taking the Paxil about 1 month prior to ending the A... I wonder how much this drug helped her? Our MC stated the the Paxil gave her enough mental stability for her to think clearly and determine what she needed to do, the MC suggested that she stay on the Paxil for atleast 1 year to give us time to work out our issues and her issues.

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/09/02 02:25 PM
Hi All,
Just a little update on my "D".
Talked with attorneys yesterday. They said they are just going to have the courts send her notice of the next trial date to her last known legal address. It's legal and it's binding... since it is her responsibilty to inform the courts of her whereabouts at all times.
If she doesn't show... the attorneys say I could possibly win big... even though there really isn't any real winners when it comes to a "D".
We are moving forward with or without her.
Petvet, It's unfortunate that are WW's have so many issues to deal with. I like you am not perfect. Had my WW stopped the nonesense and truly was remorseful... then there might have been a chance to save the "M". That is not the case, and I'm sure someday it is all going to come to a head... and when it does it will be ugly... at least for her.
Dave... If you can stay committed to your "M", you will be one of the success stories on these boards... stay the course.
RMA... As always, your advice is so very valuable, and I thank you for your input.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/10/02 01:24 AM
Petvet,

You wrote: Love is a conditional commitment to an imperfect person.

RMA response: WOW!!!!! This is the TRUTH!!!!!! Petvet, you continue to amaze me! The clarity of your thoughts is definitely there. I concur with this sstatement. You seem to have condensed it all into one little, poignant sentence. Just....WOW!

Glad you had such a good time in FL with your son. As for me and my man - all is well, and thanks for asking. We had a quiet 4th. We were supposed to go to FL and it got cancelled at the last minute due to his job. We ate with friends, but I brought the hamburgers to BBQ, the appetizers (chips and dips) and a delicious shrimp remoulade as a salad. I also made and brought a homemade carrot cake, which is my one of my favs. I'm baking a banana cake right now - another one of my favs!

dave, it all sounds just normal reaction to me. Yes, you have focused so long on winning her back and now she is there. The good news is that you can "see" so much right now and you both are in counselling, so you get the added beenefit of an unbiased person to guide you along. Keep up the good work!

Wallace, I did think you could likely go through with the D even withoput knowing your W's whereabouts. I can tell you are somewhat conflicted about it....heck, I really think that is normal. You spend years trying to become "one" and learning to live together in harmony. It is hard to give up and uncleave. Your best efforts for your W are prayers for her and for you to go on as best you can to be the stable influence in the lives of your children. You never know....some WS's do "come around" even after divorce. All the more important to get your own life together, because it is needed by you and your loved ones, no matter what happens in the future. Just know that you ARE worthy of much love and respect.

My best to all of you, RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/10/02 02:46 PM
Hi All,
Gald to hear that everyone had a good 4th of July.
RMA,
That was an excellent statement that Petvet had made as far as Love is a conditional commitment to an imperfect person.
In my support group they state that Love is a gift that we can choose to give to the person we so choose, or we can take the gift of love away as well. I have chose to take my gift away.
As this "D" was moving forward, I was reluctant during the process, but that has changed. I do want to get this "D" rolling asap. I do not have any reservations left at this stage. I am committed to move forward and not turn back under any condition... that is my resolve, with the full backing of my children.
I'll keep you updated as things progress.
May God Bless you All!
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/11/02 04:49 AM
Wallace, your statement about withholding your goft of love from your W really struck a chord with me. You know lately I have been wanting to share my love with someone who will appreciate what I have to offer. You are right. Why give love to someone who does not either appreciate it nor wants it? I have some hope left for my marriage, but only a small hope. I really feel sorry for you and your kids Wallace. You have been devastated. As a single parent, it is hard as hell going through all this stuff. I have one kid, so I can imagine what you are going through with all your kids. It gets exhausting thinking about this stuff; even when you try to get it out of your mind, it stays with you. You know Wallace, I am glad you and I are not our wives because it must be a miserable existence. Wallace, I ask that you pray and hug your kids and maintain your support system. I also recommend that you take time each day to just sit by yourself and gather your thoughts. It really helps me. Take care of yourself.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/11/02 02:12 PM
Petvet,
With what is happeneing in our lives, it is very difficult to stop and take time for yourself. I find a little time right before I go to bed for the evening.
I thank God for the blessings that he has bestowed on myself and my children, as well as say prayers for all of us who have had our lives turned upside down due to the actions of our spouses. Make no mistake about it, my family had been devastated by the actions of my WW... but we are slowly putting our lives back in order. It's a long and hard road to recover from all that has happened... but with the help of the Lord... we will make it.
Petvet, I know that you are holding on to your "M" with the hope that your "W" will snap out of it, and come to her senses. I pray for you that she will. Put it in God's hands, and let him lead your way.
In my case there comes a time that you know in your heart it is time to take your gift of love back, and move forward.
My STBXW does not deserve the gift that I had given her for so many years.
Someday I will find someone that will truly appreciate the gift of Love that I have to offer.
I am not going to give my gift of Love to someone who does not want it, nor appreciates it.
About assuming the role of both father and mother with 3 kids... you bet it's hard as hell, as you well know. But the Love my children have for me, knowing that I am there for them... makes it all worth it. Under the circumstances I wouldn't have it any other way.
With God's blessings to all of you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ July 11, 2002, 09:15 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/12/02 04:31 AM
Wallace, Dave, and RMA: Late Wednesday night, I received a call from my attorney telling me that I had a mediation hearing to discuss child support case I brought against my W on Thursday afternoon. She sure gave me a lot of advance notice. Anyway, to make a long story short, we have come to a temporary agreement on support, visitation, and medical bills. W was furious about having to pay 17% of her gross salary to me. Keep in mind that she has given me nothing since she lefted even after I asked her for help. In my state, the law says that child support for one kid is 17%-23% of gross income. Most judges will give 20%. W is angry at the prospect of having to pay 20%. She says that she may have to get a part time job; the mediator said told W that she may have to find part time work to meet her obligations. My big question is visitation which I finally got everyother weekend, but the mediator threw in a overnight stay for the kid at the W's place. I am concern about that because I do not want kid going from one place to the other like a yo-yo.What do you guys think? I think W is possibly looking for a way to discredit me so that she can get custody of the kid. She was very angry after leaving the meeting.I am very leery of her. She complains that I do not put the kid to bed early enough. She thinks that he should always be in bed by nine o'clock. She does not think I am feeding him correctly. She says that I do not listen to her. How do you think I should handle this? I think she may try something to discredit me because she does not want to pay that money.

Let me know what you think.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/12/02 12:53 PM
Petvet,

PLEEEEEZZZ! I could almost gag when I wrote your W's concerns about your parenting skills. If she was THAT concerned for how her child was going to be raised, she would not have abandonded him by moving out without him. What a farce!!!

Look, in reality, I know she loves and cares about her child. Truly, I do. Yet, this entire thing is still about HER. She wants to call the shots even if she is the one who left.

Listen to her concerns, Petvet, and then ask yourself HONESTLY if they have an merit. Get a few opinions from trusted family members and friends or even your son's counselor, if you have any doubts. If you can improve yourself in any way as a parent, by all means do try to do so. If the feedback you get from your own gut and from others is that you are doing a fine job with your son and his meals and bedtime are age-appropriate, then just IGNORE her.

I go back to something I believe is almost universally true about affairs: they occur in most cases because the WS is feeling out of control of their own lives. The affair is a situation in which the WS gets to CONTROL things. Look at most of the folks on this board. They divorce and yet the power struggles continue on, and oftentimes at an even greater or frenzied pace than before the divorce. Your role will be, as much as possible, to NOT PLAY THE GAME. Hard, hard to do.

Just keep doing the best you can for your child.
No parent is perfect. What your child will reflect upon later is that you were there and you did do the best you could. Isn't that how most people feel about their own parents????

Just keep being YOU. You come across as a loving and dedicated parent. If your W wanted to raise her child a certain way, then she should never have left. Period.

RMA

<small>[ July 12, 2002, 07:54 AM: Message edited by: Roll Me Away ]</small>
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 07/12/02 02:42 PM
Petvet, sorry for your situation... I have been there and can hopefully help. Since we were legally seperated in NC, we went through the propertly settlement, alimony, child support, child custody, etc. RMA advise is right on the money!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">W was furious about having to pay 17% of her gross salary to me </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good, about time she got some reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She says that
she may have to get a part time job; the mediator said told W that she may have to find part time work to meet her
obligations. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even better, more reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am concern about that because I do not want kid going from one place to the other
like a yo-yo.What do you guys think? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We ended up with joint custody, 50% overnight for me and 50% to her. For the fist 7-8 months I had the kids for 11 out of 14 overnights, for the last 2-3 months she lived up to her obligation for 50%. My kids are 1.5 and almost 4. I was also very concerned about my children and going back and forth, I even spoke with a IC that deals with children, my IC put me in touch with her. Overall, my children did very well with the situation, they were alot more resiliant that I thought. My D would ask for me when she was with the W and visa versus but that was too be expected.
I think the situation is harder on the adults than the children, I missed mine so much when she had them but then I learn to appreciate them even more when I got them back. The nights without them gave me some free time to focus on myself, reading, going to divorce care, etc.
Overall, I would not be too concerned about the children as long as they have to parents that love them and take good care of them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> think W is possibly looking for a way to discredit me so that she can get
custody of the kid. She was very angry after leaving the meeting.I am very leery of her. She complains that I do not
put the kid to bed early enough. She thinks that he should always be in bed by nine o'clock. She does not think I am
feeding him correctly. She says that I do not listen to her. How do you think I should handle this? I think she may try
something to discredit me because she does not want to pay that money. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think that she would really want the kids 100%? I know my W could not handle them when she was in this state of mind. She was just lashing out at me, I was also told that I did not listen and didn't do things right. Just because you do not do things exactly as the WS would do does not make them wrong. I would just reply to her either of two way:
" I am sorry that you feel that way" or "I am doing the best I can". Other than that, don't get into it with her, it will do no good. Just keep repeating these lines to her if she wants to debate it, she is trying to get a reaction from you, don't give it to her.

Hang in there, this is the really tough part, it will get better.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/12/02 03:14 PM
Petvet,
I agree whole heartedly with RMA.
Your wife is very angry right now because she is starting to feel some of the repercussions from her actions. I guess they should look past the moment before they go off on their tangents.
She is indeed upset, especially if she has to get a second job to meet her "CS" obligations... that may cut into her play time... they don't like their play time taken away at any cost.
Your wife does appear to be wanting to take control of the situation based on the custody issue... I would walk a very straight line.
She will be looking for anything at all to trip you up in order to relieve herself of her present situation.
My STBXW is going to flip when she gets hit with all the past due payments regarding CS payments. I'm moving to have her wages garnished.
Our STBXW's should of taken a deep breath, and thought about what they were getting ready to do. When they walked out that door, and abandoned their children.
As long as we look after our children and take their best interest into consideration, IMHO they gave up their right to dictate anything concerning the raising of our children when they walked out that door.
Your going to have your hands full on this one, with probably more to follow in the not too distant future.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ July 12, 2002, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/12/02 10:49 PM
Well guys and gals, it has gotten even weirder. Wifey called me at work to tell me that she would not be able to pick kid up this weekend because she needs to get herself together.

Hmmmmm?
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/12/02 10:59 PM
Wallace, Take it to her. I feel like a load has been lifted from my shoulders. These WS are something else.

Thanks everyone for your comments. I have really gotten a real charge from her anger. THERE IS A GOD.

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/12/02 11:16 PM
Petvet,

OK< she needs to get herself together. What a telling statement. Only people who feel like things are spinning "out of control" make statements that they need time to get themselves together. I think my suspicion has just been confirmed.

I loved Dave's and Wallace's observations. Yes, she just hit the ole reality wall - rather smashing her going 90 mph!

Consequences don't always feel too good, and she is starting to feel some negative consequences. I would definitely say she is mightily uncomfortable with her current position and she needs the time to think things through. I'll wager that you will be receiving more calls soon -really soon.

The other side of the fence ain't as green as she thought!

Have a lovely evening, RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/13/02 10:08 AM
RMA, you are probably right the one hand, but I think she also wants the time to console with the other guy. I still believe that he is in the picture in some way,fashion or form. I believe he is her soulmate as far as planning and strategy and of course love. She wanted to have Friday and Saturday nights to be with him. That's my guess or she is getting feedback from somewhere else. I knew that she had been having it too good. I knew that once the consequences started to hit home and her actions were judged by impartial people that she would start to really feel the heat. I knew it would start with money. She loves money. She loves to spend. She does not like working part time because she has tried it before during our marriage. If her parents help her financially, she will probably continue in her fog. My in laws helping financially, especially the father in law, is a definite possibility. It would not surprise me if she tries to go to other guy to rack on his sympathies to see whether he will help her financially.THAT'S THE BIG ISSUE NOW, "MONEY". She knows that she will probably get hit for more money by my attorney and the courts; and you know something, SHE'S RIGHT. Check this out: she has this male friend who she has known for years even before she met me.This knucklehead would call the house, page her, and call her on her cell phone to talk to my wife on a regular basis. I never like it that much
because I thought it was inapropriate. Well, she recently told me that "El Stupid" got a girl pregnant and was working three jobs. If my memory serves me correct, this guy has no car. I think she also told me that this guy is thirty five years old. Now this is one of her confidants. This will be one of the people she will be talking to this weekend and probably getting advice. I think she told me a while back that this guy (or some long lost buddy) came back on the scene and wanted to pile on her; She told me this in one of her glorified moments while discussing her adultery.

You know something, I still am thinking about my kid. He is caught in the middle of this mess. He wanted to know why mom did not pick him up. I just try to make him as happy as possible without spoiling him. It's a tough balance.

Thanks for your comments, RMA.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 07/13/02 08:25 PM
Petvet,Keep up the good work,especially with your son. It sounds like she is spinning out of control right now and she may have to do that in order to want to start to dig herself out of this mess. Sounds like she is not going to get any good advise from this other OM. If the OM is still in the picture,and my guess is yes, this
will now start to strain their relationship, reality will set in for her and for their relationship, hopefully she starts to figure
some things out and finds out that the grass is not greener on the other side. It is not to hard to have a relationship with anyone when you are living in fantasy land. Hang in there.
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/14/02 01:09 AM
Petvet,

I hope your FIL does not financially bail out your W for the long haul. If so, he would be doing her a disservice.

Yes, the OM may still be in the picture. You know, it doesn't matter what kind of guy he is to one extent - she has to stand up and stand for your marriage all by herself. His bad counsel should be revealing to her - that he is a person who makes bad choices. I am still praying for you, friend.

davepr,

How is the reconciliation going? In particular - any bad withdrawal for your W??

RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/15/02 04:28 AM
Hi Guys and Gals, today was not a good day. Wife told me last Friday that she was going to pay kid a visit today. Well, kid was on the lookout for her and when she had not showed up late in the afternoon, she became very upset. He did not want to eat nor do anything else. I called her after I noticed her call on the caller ID late in the afternoon. She came over and was very subdued. She was not her usual cocky self that I had been observing for the past couple of months. She went a couple of hours without one criticism. Kid did not want to speak to her. Whenever she tried to hug kid, he would wrestle himself away from her. She was visibly affected by his actions. All of a sudden I feel a great sense of anger towards her because of what her bad choices have done not only to her but to our kid and I. If her choices just screwed her up, then that would be one thing but her actions have messed other people up as well. After she lefted, kid said that he missed his mom. In retrospect, I wonder whether I should allow her to come inside the house anymore. Tough tough tough situation.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/15/02 04:19 PM
Hi All,
Have had a busy weekend with all the legal stuff and paper work that had to get ready for filings.
Petvet-
It sounds to me that your wife is really beginning to feel she is losing control... not to say that she wasn't out of control before. It appears that she is starting to feel the pressure and is not liking it.
You know something, my STBXW's #1 priority in life is money somewhat like yours. When STBXW gets these new set of divorce decrees she is going to lose her mind... because I'm going to be taking away some of her money.
I wish I could be there to see her face.
I think when our wives see what kind of life they have left for themselves they are not going to be very pleased... at least I don't believe mine will. It sounds to me like your isn't very happy at the moment either.
It's like the old saying says, "if your going to play with fire expect to get burned" or something like that.
I talked with my MIL for about an hour this weekend against my better judgement. She indicated to me that people make mistakes that they can't undo... hmmmmmm... sounds like someone I know.
She was trying to feel me out. Told her that I was "D" her daughter and that I hoped her daughter enjoyed her new life. MIL kept her emotions very guarded as well as myself during our conversation. neither one of us tipped their hands.
Dave and RMA I hope you are all doing well. Keep me updated as things progress, I have a feeling things are going to get interesting.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/16/02 05:24 AM
Yep, Wallace, our wives are in for it. No, you don't want to see your W's face when she receives the legal papers. Let her PRINCE CHARMING deal with it. Let him shoulder her wild outbursts and frustrations. Let him try to help her out of the jam he helped to perpetuate. Let the SOULMATES deal with it. It seems MIL is getting a reality check as well. With the exception of how this is affecting my kid, I feel like a load has been lifted from my shoulders. How about you?
As I have said before, there is a GOD.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 07/16/02 05:50 AM
Petvet, Wallace: the next several weeks should be very interesting as hopefully your WS start to face reality. FS is just one of the 10 ENs but if it is very high on your WS list, then it should
be even more interesting.

RMA, my wife stays that she is not experiencing any withdraws from OM, just gult, shame, and remorse, she continues to state that it was the biggest mistake of her life and that she can't beleive she did it. We are still going to MC, it is going well. OM tried to contract her on
Thursday of last week, well, I don't know if it was so much contact as trying to interfere with our marriage. He sent her an e-mail, the subject was SEXY, the e-mail stated
thanks for the good time the other night. She showed me the e-mail, I thanked her for being honest and showing me this. W changed her e-mail account and we got a new private home number just in case he tries to call, she did this all on her own. I did do something that wasn't
so smart out of anger, I sent OM a e-mail, stated, consider this a warning, stay the way from my family. I hope this will scare him enough to stay away but it could back fire, if he tries to contact or harasses us again, i will turn it over to my lawyer, there are some tough laws in NC about this. Hopefullly, we don't have to deal with him again and he moves on and finds a girlfriend that is NOT married. While I can understand that he is hurt and upset by this, he should of know not to get involved with someone that is married and if that person goes back to their marriage, he should respect that and not interfere. I have zero respect for him.

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/15/02 06:36 PM
Petvet-
You are probably right, let the OM deal with her... because it is going to be ugly. The creep that she is with... to the best of my knowledge hasn't NEVER given her a dime. She was too busy WACKING my bank accounts and credit cards.
I have her cut off of just about everything now except medical insurance, so I know she is feeling the finanacial strain of it all.
I'll be glad when it's all over with so i can put my life back togehter.
I'm putting on a full court press concerning this "D" now, so wish me luck... I'm going to need it.
Dave-
What a piece of scum this OM is. Of course most of them if not all of them are. It's a good sign that your "W" informed you of this, that's a good sign she wants the "M" to work. I would of done the samething you did (contacting OM)... good job.
Keep me updated as all of you progress.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/15/02 10:44 PM
Dave: Financial Support is #2 on my W's list. I hope you know that the OM is all about games and ego gratification. He is scum. You were right by sending the email. Go after him in a legal manner; don't break the law. That's what he would want you to do.

Wallace: As I said before, take it to her. OM is using your W. My guess that soon he will dump her for another woman to take care of him.

It should be an interesting couple of weeks. Oh! by the way, my child support payment has not arrived. Today, was the start date.Hmmmmmm?

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/15/02 10:59 PM
Petvet,
Why doesn't that surprise me that your wife has not paid her child support yet?
My STBXW is so far behind on her payments it's turning into a joke.
That's O.K. though... I'm just beginning, she has been the one calling all the shots and having all the fun.
It's my turn now. I've taken everything she has thrown at me... and I'm still standing.
She can't hurt me anymore than she already has. She can cannot inflict anymore pain on me, and I'm sure she knows it.
I don't want vengence, I just want out.
Her pain will begin, when she realizes what she is left with for a life.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/17/02 08:46 AM
Hi Folks, well things are getting interesting. Wifey called me last evening to ask whether she could have kid for the rest of the week; I said no because that was not agreed upon in our temp agreement. She got upset and said that I need to stop thinking with my head and going by the book and start thinking with my heart and feelings. Huh? Also, she showed up at my job to ask me a simple question that she could have called me on the telephone. I really don't understand her thought process. I am being fair and following the rules and agreement. She wants to do whatever she feels.

What can I say?

Later.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/17/02 09:09 AM
Oh by the way, wifey said that I was not going to act like a man because I don't agree with her.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/17/02 02:25 PM
Petvet,
I know your wife is confused by the way she is acting. I may be way off base on this one... but it appears she is starting to chase you.
Whatever you are doing it seems to be working to your advantage.
Her statement is indicative of an ongoing frustration she appears to have.
There may be a glimmer of light showing.
keep up the good work.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 07/17/02 03:03 PM
Petvet, I agree with Wallace, this could be the start of something..... but remember she will move forward and then take a few steps back, this is all part of the process that she may be starting.... there may be a few false starts before she is ready to move forward. Regardless of what she does, stay your course, being consistant will get the best results, there may be some hope, but it is still very early in the process, she is still confused and in the fog.

Wallace, you sound very determined and strong, sounds like you are in a much better place now, as you stated, she cannot hurt you, only you can allow her to hurt you....

Stay stong,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/18/02 05:50 AM
Hi Dave,
How are you doing in your recovery? I hope everything is going well.
I wish you and your wife much happiness as well as a long and loving marriage.
Concerning my current state of affairs... my attorney called this morning. We are waiting for the Courts to give us a date for the final hearing.
I am determined to go through with this "D", and move on with my life as well as my childrens.
I know it will be a very sad day for us all when the final hearing is over and done with. I have been left with no other options but to move forward.
I wish my STBXW had never went out of control... but unfortunately she did.
I'm only playing the cards that were dealt to me... unfortunately it's a hand of cards where everybody comes out a loser.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/17/02 09:25 PM
Wallace: I hate to hear you talk so sadly, but I guess you have no other cards to deal with. Your W just don't know what she is in for. She is stuck in park. Seeing you go through this only reminds me of what I probably will be dealing with within three months.

Dave: I continue to wish you well.

RMA: Where areee you? Pay us a visit.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/17/02 10:07 PM
Hi Petvet,
I'm sad about it all, but I am no longer hurt.
It does make you stronger though. In my case I had no choice but to either become stronger from it all, or be destroyed. I chose to become stronger and so did my children... thank the Lord.
In your case I do see hope... so please don't give up just quite yet.
You are doing something that is attracting your wife back to you. I don't know what you are doing, but keep doing it... I'm telling you, I can feel it working in your favor, based on your most recent posts.
Trust me, work hard, work very hard and don't give up, not yet. I think you will see some good results.
I don't want you following in my path, O.K?
Promise me that now, alright?
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/18/02 04:38 AM
Wallace: I know God is looking over you and your kids. I guess you have no choice but to be stronger since you and your family have been through hell and back and back again. I tip my hat to you Wallace. You are a MAN. Your W will miss that important aspect of you when all is said and done.

As far as my situation is concern, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know what W is up to. Time will tell, but I am going to stay the course despite the critcism from her and my inlaws. I know I am doing right. That's all I care about.

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/18/02 12:02 PM
Petvet,

I gotta agree that your W is definitely having some sorta angst going on in terms of the divorce. I concur with Wallace and davrpr - you need to continue what you are doing. Your situation continues to be far from over. As the legal process is drawing out, it is beginning to become immediatley apparent to your W what all is at stake - she is giving up alot of things important to her - the money, your son, your friendship and companionship, etc. - and what is the big prize she is getting in exchange for all this loss????? I don't see it and I am beginning to think she doesn't see it, either.

Continue to focus on you and your son...RMA
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 07/19/02 12:44 PM
Hi, I am going on vacation with my family, will not be back until July 29. I'll catch up with everyone then. Hope things go well for everyone, you are in my prayers, stay stong, remember that this is going to make you a better stonger person, it already has, and in the end you will find true happiness, will have become a better person and have a better life, take care your families and most importantly yourselves.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/19/02 02:54 PM
Dave,
After all that you have been through, a vacation is probably in order.
Have a good time, and keep up the good work.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/21/02 01:05 PM
Hi folks, I hope everyone is doing well. Nothing really new in my camp, but I did receive a 40% child support payment from W. She said that was all she had. Right! My mom is giving me a lot of grief about taking child support from my W.She feels I should let W give me whatever she wants. Not! She is afraid for my safety. She thinks that if I persist in getting money from W that someone may kill me. My response is if the shoe was on the other foot, I would have to pay. She knew what the consequences were before she lefted because I made her aware of the 20% minimum law and she lefted anyway. Besides, up until now, she had given me zero. If she wants to have me killed, the cops will know where to go; Trust me. My main responsibility is to make sure my kid is taken care of and since she is his parent, she should help support him. Mom says that she knows inlaws are angry at me for seeking support, but I told her that I do not care how angry they may get because I am doing the right thing. I know I am.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/22/02 03:31 PM
Petvet,
You are doing the right thing, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
She is lucky that you are letting her get away with a 40% payment only.
If anything happened to you, she would be THE #1 SUSPECT, make no mistake about it... does she want to take the chance of spending the rest of her life in jail?
My STBXW isn't going to be so lucky... as soon as the final court hearing is over, I'm going to drag her in for the CS she is already behind on. She will be in court every month if she gets behind, I am not going to be so kind.
They should of thought about all of this before they went ahead and acted the way that they did, and are.
Sorry for venting and being so harsh, but this area is a real sore spot for me.
I wouldn't let up one inch as far as the support goes.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/22/02 10:40 PM
Oh no Wallace, please don't be mistaken. I am NOT going to let W get behind on support. I am going to ride her let a wild bronco. I have already contacted my attorney. I'm not letting her get away with anything. Lately, my son has been making some negative comments about me like " you are a bad father", "I don't want you looking at me" etc. I wonder why he is making these comments? I hope she is not speaking negatively about me to him or he may be overhearing conversations she is having about me.

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/22/02 11:36 PM
Petvet,

Please help your Mom to understand that the money is for the benefit of your son. If you don't "need" it right now to make the monthly bills, then go ahead and stash it into a 529 college savings plan for him. Of course, if you need it for monthly expenses, by all means use it. It is for the benefit of your son and his household and your Mom should certainly understand that it takes a lof of money to keep a house going and to raise a child these days! Keep talking ot her about it.

Let me also say one thing, Petvet. Please don't hound your W for the money. By that, I mean don't turn this issue into yet another power struggle between the two of you. She owes it and you deserve it. If she doesn't pay after a reasonable amount of time, get the lawyer involved. Just don't nag and browbeat about the money because I have seldom seen that work to any good. It usually comes across as "sour grapes". Use the legal system if you must to get the money owed. That is fair and impartial.

davepr, hope you and your family have a most wonderful vacation. I am really happy you guys can all get away and have time to bond again.

Wallace, you are in my thoughts and prayers. How is the divorce coming? Any news or dates yet?

RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/23/02 05:04 AM
RMA, I agree with you. I have not hounded my W about money; I have done things through legal means where it is impartial and fair. Everything I have done has been above board. That's what has saved me and put me in such a good position and my W in a bad position. I think mom is ok with the support; her only concern was to not hound W for support because she may get mad and have me wacked. I have remained quiet and have avoided ant arguments with W even though she has tried to engage me in arguments. I have been all business and by the book. My reasoning for staying on top of the support is to let W know that I mean business and that I am not going to let her slid on the support. If I am firm up front, this will avoid problems later.

How are you doing?
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/23/02 02:27 PM
Hi All,
I am still waiting to hear when my final court day is scheduled for, so nothing really new as of yet.
My STBXW is behind in CS payments technically since October of last year. But we are only probably going to go back as far as April of this year.
I'm sorry to say, but in addition to everything else... she doesn't pay any of her bills either.
But that is another story for another day.
CS is however one area that I'm not going to play games with my STBXW. She has stolen enough money from my family and now it is going to be time for her to pay the Piper as far as the money issue is concerned.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/24/02 12:42 AM
Wallace, I agree with you 100%. Up until last Friday, my W had not given me anything in over seven months. Yes, they will pay the piper financially. People don't understand how this feel until they go through it themselves. Having to shoulder this D stuff along with finances is stressful. You and I try to do things legally and by the book. It will be over for both of us soon.The court date will be our wives day of judgement as far as the law is concern.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/24/02 03:15 PM
Petvet,
What is so sad about all of this... is that it didn't have to end the way that it is.
My STBXW has not been to one hearing, has not submitted one thing to the Courts.
She thinks if she ignores it, it will just go away.
We don't think she will even show up for the final hearing. I hope she doesn't... it will make things go so much smoother for me if she is not there.
I know one thing... when this is all over with... she is going to squeal like a stuck pig (no pun intended, LOL). of course if the shoe fits.
Your right in your statement... we try to do everything legal and by the book and they go on about their business like it's another day. Only for the moment though, we will have our day in the sun. This will all catch up to our W's in the end... make no mistake about it.
I have a feeling that when the "D" is finally granted it still will not be over. It's a gut feel, and I'm usually right, when I go with my gut feel.
Not sure what will happen after it's all said and done with, but I have a feeling the saga will continue.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/24/02 10:34 PM
Wallace: You know something; you bring up a good point. Our saga will probably not end with our D, but it will continue with our W's in some fashion or form. They are not going to be able to handle the aftermath of this stuff. Oh no! I really think you have something here. The saga will probably not end. Dang! These women may be problems for us going forward. Oh well?

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/25/02 12:38 AM
Petvet,

I have been up to my eyeballs in veggies. Right now I am putting up tomatoes, making salsa, made pickle relish and am shelling lima beans. Have been super busy at work, too. All is well with me. How has your garden fared?

Petvet and Wallace,

You guys will both have to deal with continued irresponsible behavior from your wives, even after divorce, unless something drastic changes in either or both of their lives. These ladies have gone through a trauma of their own, albeit it a lot of their troubles are self-inflicted. Yet, to date, neither has done one thing to professionally address their issues. They are proving that they can not constructively resolve conflict in their lives. Yes, you both should probably expect more of the same old, same old....

RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/25/02 02:49 PM
Hi All,
RMA... Glad to hear your garden is doing well. There is nothing like fresh picked veggies out of the garden.
Petvet and RMA... I have to agree with what both of you have said.
"Nothing changes when nothing changes"... and just because we will eventually be "D", the saga will most definitely continue.
I know my STBXW needs professional help, as well as spiritual help, of which she will seek none of.
Sometimes you have to wonder to yourself, what I'm I gaining from all of this?
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/26/02 05:38 AM
Wallace: You are right, "nothing changes when nothing changes". Case in point, W came over two days ago and she was still up to her same old negative comments and criticizing just like when she was living here. Your comment rang true with me because that's what I was thinking about while she was running her mouth. I was saying to myself that I cannot and will not put myself through this mess again.This woman told Steve that she did not believe in counseling because her parents had been married over thirty years and she had not ever seen them have any marital problems plus they had never received counseling, so as a result, she did not understand why counseling was necessary. Her opinion was that no marriage should need counseling if it was any good, so if a marriage needs counseling it must not be any good. A priest said to me in response to what my W said, "she knows damn well that she needs help". Yes, a priest said this. He was the one who did our pre-marital meetings.He told me that he could tell that W wanted things her way and was not going to compromise. My guess is that when she remarries that she will probably treat her new man the same way she treated me, but he may respond in a negative manner from the way I responded. You made your best one liner, Wallace, "nothing changes when nothing changes". I am going to post that one in my office on the wall. Whenever I see her and hear her negative comments, I will remember your comment. It is an empowerment phrase. It helps one to accept what you cannot control. Please understand, I have been very quiet through this crap. I have allowed her to kick my butt because I don't want to damage my case, but once the D is final, I am going to cut loose on her and tell her to keep the ______ out of my life, and that I do not want to have anything in anyway shape or form to do with her. Of course, she is entitled to our kid and that's OK, but I want her to understand that we have a business relationship only because of son and no more. I have been very frustrated lately because I cannot understand how she can imagine that this thing is going to turn out well for her. It makes her look so stupid. Also, this living arrangement is killing my son. He wants his mother and me under the same roof. He told the counselor today that he blames me for everything. I am going to try to speed up this D,
so that I can disassociate myself from W as much as possible and move on. I DO NOT associate with people who treat me in such a bad manner. Why put myself through the torture? It's funny that whenever she comes around and starts her stuff that my stress level immediately goes up. I feel real bad for my kid. I wish that she could see what she has done. Oh! Go to AmericanValues.org and read the study on divorce. It's very enlightening.

RMA: The garden is going pretty good. We have received plenty of rain. I have pull green beans. I think I made a mistake and pulled my plants up thinking that they were weeds, so my veggies may be delayed coming in. My okra are starting to come in. I will check them this morning. I'm glad everything is still going well for you; I wish I could say the same for myself. Seeing how this mess is affecting my kid just kills me.

Later.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/26/02 05:41 AM
Wallace & RMA: you know something, I am seriously considering going for full custody rather than partial custody with me being the custodian parent.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/27/02 05:11 AM
Petvet,
I went to the American Values.org site and found it very interesting.
I read elsewhere that people who stay in a unhappy marriage and put forth the effort to turn it around... that over 80% of them have a happy marriage within 5 years.
It's a shame that our WW's have chosen the path that they did. They persist on ending the marriage by doing the things that they do.
They leave you no choice, but to get rid of them by virtue of a "D".
Your "W" sounds very bitter by what you are describing. I wonder if she is really unhappy about the decisions she has made and the things that she has done and is still doing and is taking it out on you.
Do you think she may be having second thoughts about what is going on? After all, this is "Tough Love", and maybe it's starting to work on her and she is venting her frustrations out on you because of the dilemma she has put all of you in. I could be way off on this one. What are your thoughts on it?
I'm sorry to hear that your child is blaming this all on you... over time that will change, just give it some time... it will work itself out. I know, I went through it, and my kids have fianlly seen the whole shooting match and they have drawn their own conclusions. They all love their Dad, and thye now know that I was the one who tried to hold the marriage together.
It all gets so tiring, going through the "D". There are somedays that I wish it would all end as soon as possible, and then there are other days when you just wished it all had never happened and you wish you had your marriage back.
My BIL is now in the middle of a "D", because of all the garbage that I guess I have been going through (I don't quite understand that, but I feel for him).
He told me that in his opinion... my STBXW would contact me in the near future and try to reconcile the marriage.
I don't see that happening... and I wish he wouldn't have told me that.
I know one thing... once this is over with... I'm never going to look back at it again. I have made up my mind on that one.
I am in full agreement with you about not wanting to be with someone who has treated you so badly. I feel the very same way.
Our W's need a lot of work. They need to stop and take a deep breath, and do a self assessment on themselves. I'm not perfect, I know what my faults are, and have been working on them to make me a better person (Plan A). They need to do the same.
Hang in there, this is a rough ride, but we will make it through, in spite of everything going on.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/27/02 05:17 AM
Petvet,
I forgot to mention this in my post.
Talk to your attorney, and ask him what your chances are about getting full custody.
That is a tough road to take, and your chances will be slim... unless you can show a clear cause or reason for your W not having joint custody... like murder, drug abuse, abandonment.
I think you get the idea... check with your attorney and see what he says.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/26/02 10:20 PM
Petvet,

You wrote: "Please understand, I have been very quiet through this crap. I have allowed her to kick my butt because I don't want to damage my case, but once the D is final, I am going to cut loose on her and tell her to keep the ______ out of my life, and that I do not want to have anything in anyway shape or form to do with her."

RMA reply: I can understand exactly how you feel when you made this statement. BUT.....haha, this is RMA< so you KNEW there was gonna be a BUT.....

Read this, Petvet. Right now, you are totally FILLED with unresolved anger. Every bit of it is justified, considering the circumstances. You have only been suppressing that anger for months now, as you have tried to work on first wooing your W back, and now working on the D. You have been stuffing all of your anger and frustration, and doing a darn good job thus far.

This anger will come out and should come out. That is the only way you can process it and eventually resolve those feelings. That is a natural step in the healing process.

YET.....I urge you NOT to purge yourself on your W. Look, the D is going to resolve some issues for you. Yet, the emotional struggle isn't going to go away because you two end up divorced. Purging and telling her off isn't going to make things better. YOU will feel better, no doubt, but your situation is likely NOT to be improved. Your son is struggling enough. The more things strain between you and his mother, the worse he is gonna feel.

Look, you deserve to unload and tell her how you feel. Just don't do it right after the D. Wait until you get to the point that you are well on the road to recovery. Hey, maybe at that point, she might even LISTEN, LEARN and CARE??????

I can relate, Petvet....truly I can relate to how you feel. But, seldom does telling the other person off make anything better, other than a brief period.

Take care, dear friend....RMA
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/27/02 12:04 AM
Hi All,
I have been reading all 28 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> pages of your posts over the last two weeks because my counselor recommended "Love Must be Tough" by Dobson, and your thread caught my eye. Your interaction and replies are very enlightening; thanks for sharing them with everyone.

I especially like the recent post by Wallace, "Nothing Changes When Nothing Changes". It is now my new slogan, to apply to myself and my STBXH. I guess it goes both ways, huh?
Anyway, it was a mini-revelation! Thanks again!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/29/02 03:44 PM
Avondale,
That is quite a bit of reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .
Sorry to hear that your here, but you couldn't have found a better place and nicer group of people to talk to.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/29/02 11:37 PM
Hi Avondale25, you have done alot of reading 28 pages. Wow! It is alot of sad reading about people who lives have been turned upside down. Yes, Wallace's quote is classic.Where are you in your D situation? Is your situation similar to ours?

RMA: Is it OK to freeze veggies that have been harvested? Do I need to freeze veggies in water to maintain freshness? What could be the cause of my melons not turning out melons because they are blooming? Someone said that they may need pollination?

Wallace: How's everything going? W is upset taht I won't hardly speak to her. I don't even say hello to her because I try to agnore her.

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/30/02 12:30 AM
Petvet,

You wrote: "RMA: Is it OK to freeze veggies that have been harvested? Do I need to freeze veggies in water to maintain freshness? What could be the cause of my melons not turning out melons because they are blooming? Someone said that they may need pollination?"

RMA answer: Yes, you can freeze most vegetablers, but they need to be blanched first - barely cook in boiling water and then immediately drain and immerse in cold water to stop the cooking process. I don't add any water - just put in freezer bags and pop in the freezer. For frozen tomatoes, drop tomatoes in boiling water until skins rupture. Take them out and cool and skin them and drop in freezer bags. None of this is hard, just takes time. Usually blossoms that drop and no fruit or veggie does mean poor pollination. You have to plant several rows of these type to provide cross pollination.

This is a good diversion for you, Petvet. Keeps your hands and your mind active. Good!

Avondale, welcome to our "little" thread. These guys have come a long, long way in a few short months. You are more than welcome to become a regular here, too.

Wallace, hello to you! Your positive attitude continues to amaze me.

Take care all, RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/30/02 04:14 AM
OK RMA, lets take it r-e-a-l slow. I did not take a horticulture course in college, so please bear with me. CROSS POLLINATION?????????????This sounds like something similar to Y chromosomes cross with X chromosomes (I hope you aren't a science professor because I don't want to sound like a total numskull). I thought this pollination stuff involve bees. It may just be easier for me to drive to South Georgia along I-75 and raid a couple of those melon farms I saw a couple of weeks ago, or do I need to purchase a beehive, or I may just give in and purchase a $3.50 melon from Wal-Mart. This garden stuff does not keep me busy enough to relieve my tension concerning my D, but as Dr. Laura would say, at least I have taken control of my situation. There just is no easy way out of this stuff. I honestly think that the only way to get over this mess is to find another significant other to fill in the missing gap of love and affection. I really believe this may be true. I think Wallace has come to the same conclusion. You seem to have forgotten about your ex. My best friends w told me over the weekend that I am going to be amaze when I hook up with a mature woman and notice the difference in the way I have been treated. She said that she does not think I will have any problem finding another woman. Don't get me wrong, I am not looking to get married anytime soon again, but I would like to have a acquantence that I can talk to who likes and enjoys my company. I am going to be extremely picky. Who knows my W may come back, but I would not let her back into my life fully right away until she shows what her intentions are. I don't need the aggravation. I have to figure out a way to make this thing easier on my son; I have to find a way to always make him happy.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/30/02 02:48 PM
Hi All,
I got a call from my STBXW MIL. She had plumbing problems at her house and called me to come up there to see if I could fix it.
Against my better judgement, I went up and fixed their plumbing problems... took about an hour.
MIL informed me that my STBXW needs to answer to God for the things she has done, and it's a shame that all the years that we had invested together are going to be gone. I agreed with her on all counts and then left.
MIL called me two days later to thank me for fixing her plumbing... wasn't that nice of her? It took her two days to do this. She left the message on my answering machine at home. Needless to say I didn't return the call.
About 15 years ago a friend of mine told me that statement "nothing changes when nothing changes". I don't know where it originated from, but it sure sticks to many situations.
I didn't grow a garden this year. First time in many years. It probably wouldn't have made it due to the watering restrictions and drought we are in. It's hard just to keep the lawn looking green.
Well I got my court date for the fianl hearing, if they don't postpone it or kick it back. It's October the 22nd of this year. I was hoping that we could of had an earlier Court date... but oh well.
Petvet... filling in the missing gap... hmmmmm. I think you are correct about filling the void, but you need to be very careful. I agree that it might help ease some of the pain, but then on the other hand, it could cause more headaches that you most probably could do without right at the moment.
There is a gal in my divorce support group that I could probably go out with... in fact there is a few of them, but I have not pursued it. I know what you are talking about though, it is a good diversion, and it probably would help pull you somewhat out of the funk
I have got to work on me first though. I'm not going to do anybody any good, or make anyone happy, until I get out of this mess I'm in.
Of course once I've cleared the decks, then it's a whole new ball game.
I think there is still hope for your "M". Your W is showing some signs of weakness, that she may indeed be confused, and has not entirely made her mind up as to what she really wants. Of course she could swing either way with her emotions, so be prepared for anything... which I know you already are.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 07/30/02 06:44 PM
Wallace, glad to hear your got your court date, it will be here before you know it, I also liked your phrase.. that is a classic... glad the see you are still doing well... your MIL is right about one thing, your STBXW will have to answer to GOD and it is a shame for all that she has done...

Petvet, I stongly agree with Wallace regarding getting involved with other people right now, although it may ease some of your pain, it could potentially make things worse, especially if your WS comes back, now you are involved with someone else and someone is going to get hurt. Not saying that you don't have the right to do this but you have made it so long, hang in there until the end, it will be better that way all around.. Stay stong...

Avondale25, sorry to see your story...are you having any contact with your STBXH? You said he moved out of state, how far way? what do you know about he OW?

Take care,
Dave

Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/30/02 07:57 PM
Guys you misunderstood what I meant concerning filling the gap; I must did not make myself clear. I'm not getting involve with anyone anytime soon. I need a clear head and to get back on track. I would be making a bad mistake. No No No No, I am not getting involve with anyone.

Wallace: I wonder why your MIL changed her mind about your W. hhhhhhhhmmm! Interesting. You may be hearing from your W soon.

Dave: How are things going?

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/30/02 09:28 PM
Petvet...
O.K., I was just checking... didn't want you to go out and do something you might later regret.
Why do you think my STBXW is going to call soon?
My MIL only confirmed what I've already known. I don't think she could believe it. I think she does now. It's a lot to swallow, make no mistake about it. The "A" is one thing, then you add everything else and "WOW".
Dave... It was good to hear from you. Hope everything is going well.
I've seen three "M" turnaround in the last 3-1/2 months, and for that I'm glad.
Keep up the good work, and stay the course.
RMA... I always look forward to hearing from you. I have much respect for the advice you give everyone.
Avondale... If you read this, there are a lot of wise people on these boards. Feel free to share, I'm sure you will find that it helps.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/30/02 09:39 PM
Wallace: Also, I am still married. I still respect the institution. I am still wearing my ring. I still have hope though very minimum. I think your wife will contact you because her buddy(mommy) has figured things out. Her only chum now is the OM; she has a lot to loose. My guess is she will probably start getting very nervous because her lifeline is being pulled away. October is a long time when it comes to changing minds.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/30/02 10:50 PM
Petvet,
I'm with you as well... I'm still married too.
I took my vows very seriuosly, and I walk the walk as well.
My STBXW took my wedding band and sold it, so I don't have to worry about wearing it ever again.
I still have my original wedding band (the one I had placed on my finger by my wife during our wedding vows), but I can't place that back on my finger (the pain would be to much to bear).
I keep it in a special place though.
October is a long time and many things can happen. However, I don't see the plans that are in the works changing.
I do see a glimmer of light for you on the horizon... it's a gut feel.
Maybe I can be around for a fourth "M" being turned around. I sure hope so!
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 07/31/02 01:26 AM
Petvet,

Hey, I'll need to get you a dictionary and a thesaurus, teehee! Really, that is probably the problem with your melons. Could also be the drought/water ban. I do sneak and water my garden and flowers. But, my grass is in terrible shape.

Well, I sure could relate to the loneliness you are feeling. I no longer feel that way, but BOY OH BOY, did I ever feel awfully lonesome during my exH's affair. It's like you are SOOOOOO ready to give your love and your newly improved self to your spouse, yet they turn away from all that you have to offer. But, eeverything has a time and a place, and you aren't ready yet, Petvet. Just keep being the wonderful person you are. Chat here. It isn't the same, but try to fill your lonely times with friends and family. One day all of this awful mess will be sorted and you will be emotionally ready to be a great companion and mate to either your W or to another woman, if that is your choice. Trust me, when all is said and done, if you desire it, God will bring love into your life again. It just takes the dreaded time and patience.

Wallace, gosh why the long wait for the court date? I would have thought they could move this thing along sooner. But, it may give your W more time to reconcile herself with the "new reality". You are so kind to help the MIL. Try as best you can not to react or say anything to her comments, as she may also repeat things to your W and they may come back differently than originally said by you, if you know what I mean.

davepr, How was the family vacation? Hoe are YOU managing things??

avondale, feel free to join in.

Take care all, RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/31/02 11:19 AM
RMA: My area is getting a fairly good amount of rain. The grass is going well. I am going to call the extension service to see whether they may be able to recommend something for the melons.

Wallace: I just have a feeling that your W will make contact. She will get her real reality when she is hit with a child support order,etc. As far as I am concern, she is still living in a dream world. By the way, how does she support herself? It was really low for her to sell your wedding ring.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/31/02 12:08 PM
Hey all
Here's a synopsis of my story....I live in NC and work for a church -where my husband USED to be an upstanding member. Three yrs ago he was accepted into a prestigious doctoral studies program from an ivy league college (in NY). The crux of the program is that they live there for the summer and then do online courses during the school year. Last summer (2001) he had an "epiphany" and realized that he doesn't want to be married to me. (I realize things were rough but had never thought that could happen TO ME.) When he came back at the end of summer, I figured out he was having an EA with another student (she's older!) and confronted him, he admitted it, and we began marriage counseling.

September 2001 was our 25th anniversary. We belatedly celebrated this event in January by going to the Caribbean. He quit going to counseling in early spring, 2002, and told me in May that he no longer wanted to be married to me. At that time he also re-contacted the OW and began the EA again while he lived in our house and I did Plan A for all I was worth. Since our daughter was getting married at the end of June, we agreed to not tackle the separation issue until after her wedding so she would have happy memories of the wedding day and so it would not be awkward for our families.

The night after her wedding (didn't waste any time, did he?!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , he told me he had already contacted a lawyer and rented an apt. here in town. He left the next week for classes in New York where the OW is and I'm sure by now their EA has turned into a PA <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . We're working through the technicalities of separation this month, with finances and other legal work. I also need to confront him when he returns for good in mid-August to get the rest of his personal stuff out of the house - his clothes, books, etc. are a constant reminder of him and that's hurting me. (He flies back to town almost every weekend to work but so far has not "had time" to get more stuff.) He still wants to be "my friend" but I can't transition from a wife of 25 yrs to a friend like he seems to be able to do. I have a great group of solid friends from church who are supporting me, but to be honest, I'm the first person we know personally who's had to go through this. Guess that makes me a pioneer, huh?

I'm glad your posts are public. I'm learning a lot through them, and its always GOOD to know I'm not the only one going through this!

<small>[ December 17, 2004, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 07/31/02 01:51 PM
HI everyone, the vaction was good, the W and I had a great time at my 20 year class reunion, we also went horseback riding and took the kids to the zoo. We spent alot of time visiting family and friends. Things are still going well for us, no contact from OM since my little e-mail to him. I think things are starting to get easier, I am thinking less about them two being together, hopefully those thoughts continue to fade in time.

Wallace/Petvet, I still have some hope for your Ms, although your Ws will have to demonstrate alot to you in order for you to even consider it... I pray for you and for your WS. I know it will all work out one way or the other, as RMA stated, when you are ready, God will send someone into your life... I truely belive that, that one one of the principle in Divorce Care.

Avondale25, sorry to hear your story, you are pratically my neighvbor, I am in Raleigh NC. Have you tried plan B with your WH? I know it is hard to think that they may be having a PA... when I was in that situation, instead of thinking about them to being together and getting myself upset, I tried to take a more positive approach... Most A will die, about 90-95%, so everytime they were together I viewed it as a step closer to their A ending, when I found out that they were going away for the weekend, instead of being upset, I was encouraged, I knew it was just another step in the process. Hang in there, sounds like you have a good suppport system.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/31/02 03:45 PM
Hi All,
RMA... I'm not sure why the Court date is pushed so far back. It was designed to be on a fast track program that the Courts had initiated... called "Divorce with Dignity". I live in Colorado and according to the State, we have a 65% divorce rate... so they must really be backed up.
Petvet... My STBXW has always had a hard time holding a job. To tell you the truth I'm not sure she is working now, but I believe she is.
I agree with you about her selling my wedding band... she is a real piece of work.
Have you talked with your "W" since your last post?
Dave... Sounds like you had a good vacation, I could sure use one right about now.
I believe that time will heal your pain as far as thinking about the "A" and what visions of it you are probably having. When I would think about my STBXW being with the OM, I would ask God to please take it away, and he did.
Time will ease the pain of it all, and it will get better for both of you.
Stay the course.
Avondale... I'm sorry to hear of your situation.
Your "H" still wanting to be friends with you is not uncommon.
IMHO, I believe there is two lines of reasoning for this.
1. It helps lessen the guilt they have for what they have done if you agree to be their friend. It helps validate their position, that things will be O.K. in spite of what they have done... and you have accepted it by agreeing to still be their friend.
2. It keeps the door open for them in case things don't work out. So long as the lines of communication are still open as friends, it gives them in their minds a fall back position (safety net).
Since you have been working a hard Plan A, I would consider going into Plan B at this point in time and see what transpires.
I have all of you in my prayers.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
For some reason I can't put in any new paragraphs in any of my posts, so please excuse what appears to be a run on process.

<small>[ July 31, 2002, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 08/01/02 01:33 AM
Wallace,

You wrote:"Avondale... I'm sorry to hear of your situation.
Your "H" still wanting to be friends with you is not uncommon.
IMHO, I believe there is two lines of reasoning for this.
1. It helps lessen the guilt they have for what they have done if you agree to be their friend. It helps validate their position, that things will be O.K. in spite of what they have done... and you have accepted it by agreeing to still be their friend.
2. It keeps the door open for them in case things don't work out. So long as the lines of communication are still open as friends, it gives them in their minds a fall back position (safety net).
Since you have been working a hard Plan A, I would consider going into Plan B at this point in time and see what transpires."

I agree with all that you have written here. You are getting good at understanding alot of the psyche of the WS. I also think you have given avondale good advice.

Avondale, sad to say this, but Welcome to the thread. As Wallace said, your H's attitude of wanting to be friends is very common. I do think that Wallace pegged it right on the head of the nail as to why they want to be friends, too.

As to yor situation, if you have done a truly good Plan A, then, perhaps Plan B is in order. It will help to minimize the contact with your H as well as give him the best idea of what life without you is like. Even with sporadic contact, you are likely still meeting some of his needs. It is important at some point to eliminate meeting any needs at all. At some point, it is time for consequences, and Plan B can allow your H to see and feel the absence of you in his life.
Please give this some consideration.

davepr, I am really happy ya'll had such a great vacation! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Gosh, I am just so extra happy that your family is getting another chance, period!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Take care, all, RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/01/02 04:39 AM
Hi guys!

Avondale: Like RMA, I'm sorry you have to be part of this thread. Your situation mirrors ours. It's interesting that you mentioned your husband's stuff still at your house. My lovely, wonderful, considerate, and committed wife (slap-slap on the face, sorry that was an illusion) has alot of her belongings at the house. You name it; clothes(many clothes), hair products, shoes(many many shoes), records (junk junk junk). Now, she manages to take a dress here and a dress there, but for the most part, I still have to look at her stuff everyday. It makes me feel as though she intends on coming back. I agree with RMA that you need to implement Plan B. The sooner you can put the consequences on his shoulders the better. My attorney advised me against a separation because it was a waste of money. What's the point of being separated if you are not working on the relationship. It creates a safety net for the WS.It's like putting the relationship on hold (freeze frame) for a period of time while he experiments with his desires and fantasies. My W tried pulling that separating mess on me. Not! It is really hard when your WS is in another state doing his ugly mess. I'm happy you opened up; we will help you as best we can. When I started on this thread, I could not have imagine the wonderful people who I have shared so much with. It helps when people understand what you are going through. Stay strong. You have a long way to go and some important decisions to make.

Wallace: Boy, if your W cannot hold a job, she is going to have a couple of babies when she realize that she is going to have to help take care of the kids. Sixty-five percent D rate! What's going on in the mountain state? I am very close to putting down money that your W will show up before the court date. As far as wifey is concern, she came over the other day to get kid. She spoke cautiously to me because she knew I did not want to speak to her. When she showed up the following morning, she tried to be very conversational. Even though I have exclusive use of the house, she is still letting herself into the house. She still is not meeting her financial obligations that she agreed to. I am meeting with my attorney today to map out the final nails to my w's coffin. Her ______ is getting ready to hit the fan. She might want to load up on her medication because she will need it.

Dave: Glad to hear everything is still going well.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/01/02 02:46 PM
Hi All,
My MIL called last night. I didn't answer the phone. I figured she could leave a message on the answering machine when I saw her telephone number come up on the Caller I.D. She didn't leave a message so I guess it couldn't of been very important.
65% divorce rate in this State is what the Parenting Program people had said during our class. We are one of the highest in the Nation, if not the highest.
So if you want to keep your "M", I wouldn't suggest a move here.
Petvet... I still think your "W" is still trying to sort all of this out. She still has her personal effects at your house? IMHO, she has not fully committed to letting your "M" go just quite yet. With her coming over to the house to get this and that, tells me she may want her "M" still. I still hold out hope for your "M"... it's far from over IMHO.
Concerning my STBXW having to pay CS. It is going to hit her hard. When the final hearing comes, and they find out she has not paid one dime to date. I don't think the Judge is going to be very happy with her. Of course we do not expect to see her at the final hearing, so I guess we will just have to start garnishing her checks if she is working after this is all over.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/01/02 03:17 PM
ooops, sent twice so i'm trying to erase one...will it work? LOL

<small>[ August 01, 2002, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/01/02 03:24 PM
OK y'all (southern-speak)
Thanks for the warm welcome. We are still hashing out the separation agreement (which I obviously don't want but must participate in). I am seeing our marriage counselor (alone) this afternoon. He was the one who suggested "Love Must be Tough" book and train of thought. I intend to write a letter to hubby, not exactly a formal Plan B as I've seen here at MB but it fits our situation better for right now. While we're still working out legal separation it seems just a LITTLE too soon for a full Plan B. Please tell me what you think. I plagarized some of it from this site, LOL...

Dear H,

I want to respond to a couple of your recent e-mails. You are so amiable, both in person and through email. It seems you want to still be "friends", but I just can't do that. I cannot immediately transition from being a wife for 25 years to being only a friend. It just isn't normal. Perhaps in the future that might be possible, but for right now, it isn't. That is why I need some space. That is why I haven't replied. I hope you understand.

Another thing I wanted to respond to was something you had written: "as others have said, even though I (H) brought this situation on, both of us were responsible for the unhappy parts of the marriage". I don't know who the "others" are.... but I can't and won't be responsible for that which I am unaware. I still feel very uninformed as to what it was that brought us to this point after 25 years of marriage. All I know are 3 reasons which you've said, none of which seem to be serious enough for action of this nature, and all of which seem to have come about after you began traveling to NYC and working on your PhD.

Your personal notes to me about school are nice but at this point I do not want to know about it. You know I supported you 110% but to continue to be interested in that facet of your life which will no longer be shared with me and will no longer be a part of my future is hurtful. I'm sure there are others around you who are able to be interested in your career.

If you truly want to separate, you need to do just that. Your personal things need to be removed from the house. I feel you have had opportunities over several weekends to get belongings from the house, Sunday mornings for example, but haven't. I would like them to be gone immediately upon your return to Greensboro. They are constant reminders to me of the love that we've shared and continue to pour salt in the wound of my heart.

I hope that you will understand that I am not doing this to hurt you or punish you but to protect my feelings for you and any chance of reconciliation in the future. You must know the pain and suffering I have endured because of your relationship with OW, especially while living in our home and sleeping with me. Our relationship has become more distant as you've become more self-centered with your music. (I know this is a LB but it's true!) I feel my love for you slipping away. This total and complete separation needs to be done in order to protect my feelings for you so they don't turn to resentment, and for our future, regardless of whether or not it is together.

I have said this before, and I want to say it again: I want to do whatever I can to put our marriage back together in a mutually satisfying way. I am totally open at any time for communication that would pertain to that coming about. Until that time, as you wanted per the separation agreement, you are "free from the interference, authority, and control of me as if you were single".

I loved you when we met, I love you today, and my love for you will last forever. That's a paraphrase of Hebrews 13:8, "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever." Please remember that.
Love,

Me

Oops, just hit enter key; hope it didn't send this twice, if so, i am sooooo sorry!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/01/02 03:44 PM
Avondale,
I believe your letter is to the point and well done.
Everybody's situation is different, and if you feel this is this best approach to take at this time... then I would follow through with what you believe is best.
IMHO, you were direct, but you didn't slam the door shut... and that is a wise move on your part.
Always try to keep your options open.
Forward the letter to him, and see what type of a response you get.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 08/02/02 12:36 AM
Petvet and avondale,

While separated, my thenH also had his "stuff" still at the home. He also continued to use the house office to conduct his job several times each week. While in Plan B, we would run into each other all the time, so it was not effective at first. Eventually, I did do a good Plan B and when I did, I felt great! Not about being separated, but it did help not to have to deal with it all daily. Eventually, I asked him to move his stuff out. This was after we were divorced and he was still using me to store his stuff and using my home as his office, because he and the OW were living together on a 2 room houseboat. He didn't have the space and was using me to supply that.

See how similar so many of the stories are? Point in all of this is that the WS will in many cases, not be the one to sever the cord to the BS. Maybe it is only convenience, as in my case and maybe even the same for avondale, but, Petvet, I think differently in your case. I still do think your W has not totally given up on you and your marriage. That is why she keeps coming around so much.

avondale, the letter is good, but don't expect it to accomplish much of anything. Your H is not open and receptive enough right now to deal with your hurts. Also, he is likely to misunderstand your reasons for asking him to move his stuff. Although you say it isn't punitive, and I do believe that, he will likely be mad and angry because he is going to be inconvenienced. And, you are somewhat upsetting his timetable and his plan. That is how my exH felt. He could never quite get it that I did it for me, not to hurt him. But, then again, at that time, it was ALL about him. Just want you to feel prepared in case he reacts negatively.

Hi, Wallace and davepr!

RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/02/02 06:04 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: For the most part, your letter is fine; HOWEVER, I think you are being toooooo nice. Please understand I am just voicing my opinion ,and you have to do what is comfortable for you. While reading your letter, I continued thinking to myself how it appears that you are walking the line rather than being tough and giving your H the impression that he has to make a choice. Right now, I think he may misconstrue your letter in a way that may make him think that he can play with your feelings. He must undertstand that if he does not come back to the marriage and give up the stuff in NY that things are not going to be OK between you and him. You kept the door opened for a friendship, but my opinion is that you need to close the door to that as well because he may think that he can return to you on the rebound in the future. Do you understand what I mean? Tough love is just that, TOUGH. My point is that he must be under the impression that you have cut the cord even though you are feeling the pain inside. It is tough stuff. Outside of that, I think the letter is fine. Once again, please do what is comfortable with you. Your letter is a one time deal in order for it to have any effect, so you have to make sure that you can follow though with it. I still don't like the legal separation idea. He needs to feel the consequences, NOW. You know something, you WS sounds like things are business as usual.

Me: I met with attorney yesterday and she told me that I have everything I need to get what I want.
After I clarify some things with the Tribunal, I may be able to get a court date next month if not late this month. She told me that I may be wasting money to get a deposition because we can get the same thing in court. My attorney pulled off her attorney's hat and asked me whether my W has some psychological issues especially a sexual addiction. She is the fourth or fifth person to ask me that question. She also told me that she has seen an increase in the number of woman leaving their families. She told me that my wife is going to get hit very hard by the judge. My attorney called W's attorney to tell him that if W does not produce the support in full that we will take her to court for contempt plus she has not signed the temp agreement plus her attorney was not aware that she had not met her obligations. Even though I have exclusive use of house, W came by the house again w/o my knowledge including checking my caller ID and mail.

Wallace: I'm telling you something is up. My hand is heading into my pocket.

Later.

Oh PS, has anyone been to Dollywood? Is it worth $34?
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/02/02 11:05 AM
Thanks to all for your feedback....

The MC said he thought it was a very good letter for our situation, except to maybe change "If you truly want to separate" to "Since you want to separate" to be more definitive. He also suggested adding "get your mailing address changed" too.

RMA, I am not pinning all my hopes on this letter, but I do think even this will be an eye opener to him because I haven't been very demonstrative or hyper-upset throughout the ordeal...Somehow I just am not worried about this whole situation (maybe God's grace?). I know that no matter what, I will make it through this and be OK.

Petvet, I see your point and I am going to think on the level of toughness today before I send it this evening. You're right, this letter should have maximum impact by itself.
Sounds like you have a perceptive lawyer and that fact should help. I've heard horror stories about lawyers making things more difficult in these cases. I've never been to Dollywood.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/02/02 02:35 PM
Wallace,
My W did the same thing, even after we changed the deed on the house to me. I changed the locks and change the security code on the alarm, told her I did that and if she came in the alarm would go off and she would not be able to turn it off. She even went so far as to hop the fence in the backyard, with the children, so they could play on the swing set. The house was no longer hers, she had no right to it or the yard, Tough Love, she wanted out of the marriage then she doesn't get use of the house, yard, or anything attached. Do what you have to, do it in a friendly way, but do it, keep her out of the house, force more reality for her, she may be at the point where it forces her to start reconsidering if she is not already there.

Also, there is a interesting thread going on on the GQII board, the subject is I am the OM..
you may want to check it out, there is some interesting feedback....

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/02/02 04:53 PM
Hi All,
Dave... I think you were posting that info for Petvet. I haven't heard from my STBXW in almost 4 months and counting. I already did what you stated a long time ago, but thanks for the info on it.
I'll check out that post on GQII.
Hope things are still going well for you and your family.
Petvet... I think you need to do what Dave had stated to really let her feel the effects of the whole "Tough Love" approach.
I think it will really set her back into reality if she is completely cut off.
Let her feel the full effect of it all.
If she is going through your house like that... you need to put a stop to it.
With what she is doing, there is no doubt in my mind that she does not want to end the "M" at this point. There is still an emotional attachment there. You don't go through someones personal effects like that... she is checking up on you!
You keep doing whatever you are doing... because she is starting to come around. I feel another "M" being turned around here.
Avondale... Did you send the letter or did you make changes to it?
In a way I have to agree with what Petvet had to say ("Tough Love"), but you know what will work best for you regarding the letter.
RMA... I think you gave Petvet and Avondale some good advice. How are those yummy veggies doing?
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/02/02 06:25 PM
Child Support does bring a wake up call and you do feel the impact immediately. I payed it on my own at first then WW wanted it to be handled by the court and its a sting to the pocket and paycheck.

My now xw has a great thirst for the Love of Money, she tried to gold dig me using the courts.

Since my OD is 18 and out of HS, she will be dropped, will still pay it for YD. I sent modification papers to xw this week to fill out so she should have them Sat or Mon.

Problem now is because of the caseload it will be 6 months before they make modification which will be early next year and because of that this will cause an overpayment to xw and they will either stop CS altogether until it all balances out or make her pay it all back when YD turns 18. Therefore things are starting to backfire on her.

She should have let me continue to pay as I was and agreed because this would have avoided the mess she's about to face now. The amount she's going to get after the modification is the same amount I was paying in the first place.

Paying CS does give you a constant reminder, so good luck with this in getting her attention, she needs some responsibility. Working hard and then having to dish out a big chunk for a motive you're not in agreement with is no fun at all.

I'm curious to see how xw is going to respond now that she's getting over payments, if she was smart she would send it back to CS office or save it which probably won't happen.

Good Luck
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 08/02/02 06:51 PM
Petvet, do what Dave did and change the locks on your house. Your stbxw has a much right to enter the house as a thief does. In fact the thief will only take things of monetary value, while your wife will take things, like information, to use it to hurt you beyond your finances. SO CHANGE THOSE LOCKS ASAP.

<small>[ August 02, 2002, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/03/02 07:06 PM
Hi all! Thanks TooMuchCoffee and Everlasting Compassion for your comments. The reason why I had not change the locks yet is that my attorney told me that I could not do that until I had a temp order in place for exclusive use; however, since W has not signed the agreement yet, I cannot do anything.

Dave: I think Wallace is correct. It sounds like your advice concerning changing the locks was meant for me. I will take a look at the spread about the OM.

Wallace: How are things going? I still have hope for your marriage.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/04/02 03:35 PM
Petvet/Wallace,Yes,it was meant for Petvet, not Wallace, sorry. I agree with Wallace, she would not be snooping around if she did not care. You need to find a way to cut off the remaining emotional support she is getting, hopefully you and you lawyer can find a way to keep her out of the house. Ask your lawyer what would happen if you changed the locks without the agreement.. she is not paying her A and nothing has happened to her,yet anyway. I feel if you can find a way of breaking these lasts strings, she may come around.

Today would of been 1 year for our legal seperation offical move outdate,meaning tomorow we would of been divorced if things stayed on the same path. I am gland they turned around, feels kida of strange knowing that I could of been divorsed tomorrow....

Take care all,
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 08/04/02 07:29 PM
Petvet,

I also waited until the house was in my name before I changed the locks. You would be prudent to do as your attorney advises, even though it stinks that she can come and go at free-will. Too bad, because maybe if she showed up one day and the locks were changed, she would get some IMMEDIATE negative feedback. But, anyway, listen to the lawyer on this.

I have not been to Dollywood, but do recommend the Opryland Hotle. It is awesome - especially once the Christmas decorations are up!!

Wallace, I am busy, but the bulk of the garden is in. Still making tomato juice and salsa. Today I cooked some fresh lima beans and made a jambalaya to take to friends for dinner at their house. You sound good, friend.

davepr, EC and Too much coffee,Hello.

avondale, yes, the grace of God does give us the strength we need to face the things we do not want to face. You sound like you have enough faith in God and yourself to weather this storm, no matter how things play out. Keep that great attitude, as you will need it in months to come.

Going swimming soon. Ya'll enjoy your Sunday, RMA
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 08/04/02 07:43 PM
Petvet:

I stand corrected on the changing of the locks, but it is still imperative that you do not leave valuables, especially private information, where she can have access to it. For example you might consider downloading any sensitive information on your hard drive onto a floppy or cd and then deleting it from your computer.

RMA:

I'm glad that you had a wonderful time and just hope that you did not come back more physically exhausted than when you left <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/05/02 05:05 AM
Hi all,

Yes, I am going to follow the instructions of my attorney. Heck, I just as well since I am paying her a fortune.

RMA: My garden has taken a turn for the worst. The heat is killing my garden plus insects are feisting on my plants. What do you use to keep the multi-legged creatures out of your garden? Does lime work?

TooMuchCoffeMan: Yes, you bet I am on top of things when it comes to my wife snooping around. All important papers especially the ones that relate to the divorce are under lock and key. I also check the house regularly for listening and photographic devices. I am not taking anything for granted. That's one reason I avoid speaking with her on the telephone as much as possible because my attorney has warned me that she may be taping our conversations.I also delete all email and web history from computer memory.

I have a question for all of you. Since my wedding anniversary is coming up within two weeks, would you acknowledge it to my wife or would you just let it go without a mention?

Wallace: Have you taken a vacation or days off lately? You need time away if possible. Getting out of the house can really help clear the head.

Dave: How are you feeling about things? Is you trust coming back? Is she still on track without wavering?

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/05/02 02:50 PM
Hello also RMA and Petvet, hang in there....

Petvet - You mentioned should you acknowledge your anniversary and send a card? Well I wrestled with that question back in Nov 2001 when mine came. I end up sending her a card even though I was 1,200 miles away, why? was she still in the fog, yes and still in it.

I did it because I came across an interesting discovery one day. In May 2001 4 months after she moved I had to go get both YD and OD at W's house, she was out of town. As I was in the house and daughters we're not in the room, I saw a stack of bills banded together with a rubberband, old bills and current bills setting on the table outside a tote bag she carried everyday.

Nosey me I picked it up flip through them [oh bad me] and behold in this stack of bills she was carrying, apology letters from me, love cards, hurtful D-day letters from me, I love you letters, etc, they were worn a little like she read them daily.. when I saw it I was stunned and tears came in my eyes, I couldn't believe it, I said to myself but this is the woman that betrayed me, cheated on me, wanted nothing to do with me, has 5 OM, but yet she's carrying around all this stuff everyday looking at it.

Since I knew now she was doing this, I took a chance on sending her an Anniv. card in Nov because I knew she would tote it around. Since she had filed for divorce in Oct 2001 I feared she would send it back but she didn't. She stalled dv for 1 month after.

I feel I could send her a card today and she'll tote it around and cherish it even though we're Dv'ed, but I wouldn't do that yet because she hasn't hit bottom yet, she'll think I'm validating her actions, OM hasn't done his dirty work enough yet, she's getting their, when she's send me her financial affidavit, it will tell how she's doing financially, her previous job was her god and her car also, it caused her to puff up, she recently changed jobs, but I don't know if she got fired or not. If she's making more, then I'll know she wasn't fired, she would not take less in the financial state she's in.

So sending a card won't get you any short term results but it will be a lasting reminder to her, it'll touch something going on within her that you'll never see, she'll still appear cold as ice, if you send it don't expect anything in return.

I did it also because we weren't dv'ed yet and I didn't want to give her more reason's to use against me through manipulation such as "you ignored our anniv.day".

Everybody has a diff circumstance I planned B her at that point but I also had some inside info too she was carrying info around everyday..

One thing my counselor told me in private after he spoke to both of us, he said despite what she does, she see's me as one that can point her out of the way of darkness, he said her life was though if she was walking in total darkness in a dark room and she saw me as a flash light in a dark place [because of the Lord] he said just let her keep walking until she's lost her way, until then work on you.


..........Good Luck
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/05/02 08:49 PM
Hi Y'all
I haven't posted anything because I had thought H was coming home last weekend and I would give him my letter then and maybe have something to report. But he didn't, he stayed in NY. (I guess getting the last few hours he could with OW.) Anyway, he indicated he'd come by tomorrow (I hope) to get mail and my letter will be in there with all this others.

I did modify it a little, but all in all it's the same. I wasn't looking to be totally tough because this may be a little too early in the game. I understood what you meant, Petvet. But I applied it to my personal situation, as everyone does with their own letters and stuff.

I am also curious about the anniversary card issue, our # 26 is mid-September. I'm thinking I might send one, just to be safe and keep that olive branch (and marriage-related communication channels) open.

Thanks again to everyone for your feedback!
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/05/02 11:41 PM
Hi everyone..

Petvet, things are still on track for us....the trust is just starting to come back, I think it will take a long time to get most of it back, it will never all come back, atleast not for me... Anyway, thanks for checking, today has been a strange day for me, strange knowing that if I didn't find MB, if the A didn't end, if I wasn't open to taking her back for a 3ed time, I would of been divorced today.

Regarding the card, that is a tough one, if you were doing a strict Plan B or Tough Love I would say no, but again every situation is different. Personally, I would not, I don't know what it would accomplish but you will have to decide what is best for you. This situation is not what you wanted, this was her decision, she knows that you want your marriage to work out. At this point I would try to break all emotional support that you can with her, she needs to hit bottom, if she is still getting some ENs met by you, then this situation is just going to continue. She wants to be divorced, then show her what life is going to be like being divorced. My 2cents anyway, again, every situation is different but I know from my experience the more I cut off support, the more she came around. I remember all the great adivse RMA, and many others gave me here, RMA would get on me for talking to her on the phone, etc.. well it worked in my case and I firmly believe that cutting off the emotional support forced her into reality.

Good luck,
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 08/05/02 11:56 PM
First off, Hello to Petvet, Wallace, davepr, avondale, EC and TMCM! Nice to have some other folks offering support and opinions, here.

davepr, sounds like things are really starting to click for you and your W. You know what they say....third times a charm!!! I am really happy for you and your family. Just a little reminder - if you need to vent, come here.

avondale, it will be interesting to see if and how your H reacts to your letter. I'll wager that he acts like he never got it.

Petvet, I had beetles eating my bean plants, and used a beetle bag (got it at Home Depot). That helped. Also, had soemthing else on the tomatoes and I unfortunately had to use some sevin dust on the leaves, but it got rid of the bugs. My beans are almost gone but still getting peppers and tomatoes like crazy.

I am conflicted on the idea of the anniversary card. Normally, I would agree 100% with what davepr wrote and said that I would say. Yet, somehow, in your case, I waver. Your W hasn't really been super nasty to you, Petvet.Maybe a simple card that states that you are open to discussion on reconciliation and nothing more. If she isn't open to reconciliation, then what do you really have to celebrate in terms of your wedding anniversary?? But, definitely no gift this time. You have been too thoughtful and too generous and it is time for all that to end unless she can step up to the plate.

EC and TMCM, how are things going with you two?

RMA
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 08/06/02 03:08 AM
Hi RMA.

Everything couldn't be better. I'm doing fine, my girls are doing great, and so is my lady and future mrs TMCM. Sometimes I worry that fate is setting me up for a fall but thankfully those times are few and in-between. Even my xWW has continued with her counseling and treatment for drug and sexual addictions, and is behaving in a much more responsable way towards our daughters.

I guess you might say that there is definetely life after divorce. I just can't beleive it took so long for yours truly to wake up and realize this. Oh well, we live and learn don't we?
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/06/02 10:41 AM
Hi all:

RMA: Thanks for the advice on the garden. I have sevin dust and will try it on the plants. I am still frustrated about the melons, but I will live. I have decided to not send W a card for the anniversary next week, what's the point? I need to continue distancing myself from her. My plan has worked so far, so why mess around with something that is working? My mindset is focused on the future and eliminating her from my life. Something funny happened over the weekend. W is away on vacation with the kid. Even before they left town, she had the kid to call me to say goodbye, then on Sunday, she called me and left a message to tell me that they were doing OK and what they were doing. I'm like, what in the heck are you calling me for (that's what I said to myself as I listened to the message). I am looking forward to the future without her.

TooMuchCoffeeMan: Do you have custody of your kids?

Dave: I am getting this weird feeling that my W is going to pull a 11th hour return on me? I cannot take her back without change and PROOF that she has taken a turn for the better.

Avondale: Let us know how hubby reacts to your letter. He may not react at all. If he does not respond to your letter, please do not ask for his response. That's my four cents.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/06/02 03:39 PM
Hi All,
I'm back... took a day off to get my YD16 registered for school.
Petvet... I think your "W" is going to do a turnaround as well. I've had that feeling for quite some time now. The question is... are you ready for it and how are you going to deal with it?
IMHO, I would not send the card. You have been doing everything right so far. It could be a major "LB" though, by not sending her one but that is a chance you must be willing to take.
Only you can can make that determination as to what is best for you and your situation as it stands at this moment.
If you send her the card it may validate that you still want her back in her mind... hence, she will know where you stand as far as reconciling. It could work against you possibly.
Dave... it's good to hear that you are not getting "D", and your "M" is going well.
You will in time be able to forgive, but don't ever forget. Keep up the good work.
RMA... Sorry to here that your veggies are under a bug attack. I remember fighting that all of last year.
With the watering restrictions we have here, we can barely keep are lawns green, I'm kind of glad i didn't start a garden this year... If I had planted a garden this year it wouldn't have made it.
Tomuchcoffeeman... You give us hope that there is life after "D". I'm glad to hear that you have found another to share with.
That helps a great deal in the healing process.
EC... I wrote my STBXW a letter some time ago. I never heard a word back from her. I didn't expect to hear anything, but it makes you wonder what if anything they may be doing with it.
I wonder why she has it with her all the time. She must still have feelings for you.
When the fog lifts on her, who knows... you may be hearing from her again. I just hope she doesn't drift around in the fog for long.
Avondale... Let us know how your "H" responds to the letter. If he is like most, you probably will not get much of a response, but you never know... it may snap him out of it.
Concerning my situation...my MIL has been calling my house every other day. I have not been answering the phone. I didn't have the answering machine on either, so I don't know what she wants.
Somethings up, not sure what though.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/06/02 03:42 PM
Petvet, it would not surprise me if she does.. the calls, the snooping around,etc, all tell me that she still cares, but she is still probably in the fog. I think the key is that until she comes out of the fog, there can be no recovery. I know now that the first two times my W came back she was clearly in the fog, the withdraws became too great, and she went running back to OM.
I think there are some clear indicators that when the WS comes back if she is ready to start recovery or not, you will know and others will help you look for signs IF you get to this point and decide it is something that you want to consider. Keep up you good work, Dave
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/06/02 07:42 PM
Hi Y'all
I got off work early today 'cuz all I could think about was H reading my letter. And he responded by leaving one of his own...here are some excerpts:

I understand you needing space. I will give you the space. I hope when we do need to talk about household, the kids, etc. We can both be civil and "sort of friends". But of course I'm aware of your feelings, and will respect them.

I do intend to remove my personal items as soon as I'm back from NY for good, which will be Aug. 12. But I think we need to talk about what is what so I won't take anything that is not really mine. I will make up a list and email it to you and we can go from there, ok?

And yes, I do understand you are not trying to hurt or punish me. You deserve a full explanation, and I'm trying my hardest to come up with words that will explain my inexplicable actions (at least in your eyes). For the present, just know that I only rejected those other people's [i.e.,counselor, pastor, family members] advice after I found it wasn't working (note from me: he only tried for 6 months). I did not make this decision lightly; there were (and are) risks in it for me. I have alienated practically everyone who cares for me; they all think I am crazy and just having a mid-life crisis. And yet, I still made the decision I did, and I still think it was right.

I realize that my situation isn't quite as "dire" as others I've read about here on MB. No abuse, no financial shenanigans (yet), no young children, just a husband who is self-centered and somewhat lost in his own world for the time being. Anyway, this letter from him gives me hope, somehow.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 08/07/02 11:15 AM
To all, just have a sec this morning.

avondale,

Your H wrote: "And yes, I do understand you are not trying to hurt or punish me. You deserve a full explanation, and I'm trying my hardest to come up with words that will explain my inexplicable actions (at least in your eyes). For the present, just know that I only rejected those other people's [i.e.,counselor, pastor, family members] advice after I found it wasn't working (note from me: he only tried for 6 months). I did not make this decision lightly; there were (and are) risks in it for me. I have alienated practically everyone who cares for me; they all think I am crazy and just having a mid-life crisis. And yet, I still made the decision I did, and I still think it was right."

RMA reply: This really sums it all up for him. I think he is re-iterating something I feel is common in many of our cases: he has reached a point in his life and he is unhappy and desperately trying to find this happiness. Unfortunately, he is still seeking external, and not internal peace, happiness and validation.

Reminds me of Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz.......

RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/07/02 11:21 AM
Hi all!

Dave: I don't know what I am going to do if she tries to come back. In the meantime, I forge ahead with the D as quickly as possible. I want this mess over.

Avondale: I had to read your H's letter twice to let the words sink in. Some of the things he said reminds me of the excuses my W made throughout this thing. Counselors (off & on: never committed to finishing a program), pastor (she would not listen), and her family (she would not listen) all of these intermediaries could the crack her way of thinking. He wants to be buddies and friends with you. How nice! Real cute!Does that make you feel wonderful? I guess he is doing you a favor by having you associating with him. He has a good "SHOW" going on. My W wants to be friends, but I am not having any part of it. With me, it is plain and simple: you are either FOR me or you are AGAINST me. It is as clear and black and white as that. Since I have a kid with W, our relationship is strictly BUSINESS; No more no less. He seems to want to stradle the line and have his cake and eat it too. He used the term that he is taking a risk too. Well, that's his problem and choice. Yes, he accepted some of the biiter pill, but he is in crybaby mode as well. Excuse the tone of my response, but I take committment very seriously. I have no respect for those I cannot trust.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/07/02 02:34 PM
Avondale,
I agree with all of the above responses from RMA and Petvet.
This letter is all about him. It's a typical self centered, "I'm going to find my happiness no matter what the costs are" response.
I'm surprised that you did get a reply as soon as you did.
If he does move out, I would go into Plan B and let him make the next move.
IMHO, I don't think you will need to wait very long for him to do that.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/07/02 03:03 PM
Avondale, your H is clearly in the fog, he is confused, mixedup, whatever you want to call it. Clearly he is not happy, he believes the A is going to solve his problems and make him happy. In time, he will learn that you cannot run from your problems and running only makes things worse. For now, there is not much you can do except work on yourself, you need to let him learn this on his own, some learn quickly, others take years to find themselves but I believe tha evenetually he will come to this realization.

Wallace, I wonder what is up with MIL... interesting....

Petvet, try not to think about what you will do if she comes back, you will cross that bridge when you get to it, for now, just stay the course, I think what you are doing is working, for both you personally, and to help push your WW into reality. Stay strong..

Dave
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 08/07/02 10:03 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Original post by Petvet:<strong>
TooMuchCoffeeMan: Do you have custody of your kids?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I do have custody of our two daughters.

My xWW's out of control behavior was responsable for the court to view me as the best fit parent for our daughters.

I hope that the court also agrees that you are the better parent.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/08/02 12:27 AM
Hello all!!

Its nice to see and hear all the wonderful advice. Well I haven't been doing to much lately just staying out of the heat wave.

Well OD should have letter now, don't know what to expect on that issue, I guess it will tell if wifey[xw] kept her in the open or not as she said.

XW should have CS modification papers now, I'm sure she's in a mad rush to get it done, every week or month she waits is bigger mess of backpay for her since she being overpaid by me.

Since she has no house phone she establish a number for me to call and contact them and then they call back later. Well I had to leave a message today for XW that someone broke into a storage unit I had and they stole her mothers possessions they took every box in there nothing high value just sentimental. Her mother is deceased. I don't know if she will be concerned or not? she's 1,200 miles away from the stuff and have not seen it 5 years. She was suppose to had it all shipped to her. My heart was broken when I found out.

Anyway the next week or two is going to be interesting having to maybe communicate with xw.

Does anyone know if there WW grieved over them, I know the WS grieve's the lose of OP, but what about over the BS? any info on that? In about 2-3 months my xw has been in this state of mind for 2 years I wonder if she's ever grieved over me or does it come at the end of the fog when OM leaves?

Thanks.....
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 08/08/02 04:27 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by EverlastingCompassion:
<strong>Does anyone know if there WW grieved over them, I know the WS grieve's the lose of OP, but what about over the BS? any info on that? In about 2-3 months my xw has been in this state of mind for 2 years I wonder if she's ever grieved over me or does it come at the end of the fog when OM leaves?

Thanks.....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yeah there have been quite a few hit and run posters that have told their stories of beign xWS that left their BS and later on, after the OP has left them, grieve the loss of their BS. They are quite heartwrenching stories because in most of them, the BS have moved forward with their lives and started new relationships. It's too bad that they were in such pain that they did not stick around to be helped by us. I hope that God has helped them heal from the pain and weight of their guilt.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/08/02 04:50 AM
EverlastingCompassion: TooMuchCoffeeman was right in his assessment of the reality check felt my WS after they have left their BS. Basically speaking, the WSs are basically in no mans land because the affairs have ended and they have given up everything. They look like fools. Do you still love your xW?

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/08/02 01:06 PM
Hi Petvet - Do I still love my xw? is a tough question? I think I'm in love with the person she once was. Based on all things she's done in the past 2 years it's even hard to say she is my friend. It's sad to say but I really see her as a threat to my life somewhat, but I still focus on who she used to be. We used to have endless times together.

A friend contacted me last night, checking to see how I was doing and xw was doing, she was friends to me and my xw, but she was real closer to my W. She always saw us as one and felt if she talked to one she was talking to the other.

She told me something lastnight that I knew but I was surprized she knew. She said: You know, something was bound to happen and change had to take place, not divorce or separation or anything, then she said you know, your W truly did love you but the problem came when you started growing in many area's of your life, she said when you guys started dating in highschool and got married afterwards, she felt she always had you in her control and it was security to her, she was also more advanced than you in a lot of ways, but when you started advancing in life and became the leader you always were, she felt she was losing control over you. She said she had you controlled by money, by sex, her knowledge,your spiritual walk with God, etc.....she saw you as one of the kids almost in your inabilities for many years, but also as an authority in her life.

Ok, after she said this I started thinking back because I knew some of this but its different when an outsider tells you this. Then I went back to a email my WW sent to me where it shows her lose of control over me, she's not only writting from fog talk because of OM, but its also defeat of a person who lost control over another. Yes, she has a boyfriend when she wrote this but, during OD graduation, I found out the guy is younger than her maybe by 5 years, she needed that control again. What's amazing about this she wrote about we handle money diff and as you know she can't pay her bills and hasn't been since she left.

Her Email: This was about Mar 2002

As for us, we aren't compatible anymore. We don't enjoy the same things. We don't listen to the same music. The only thing we have in
common is the desire to succeed in business and our children. But even our methods of succeeding are different. Where I want to be is not
where you want to be (California). Where you want to be is not where I want to be (Missouri). Even our religious beliefs are different. The way I handle money is different from the way you handle it. What I like to cook and eat is different from what you like to cook and eat. The places that I like to go are not the places you like to go and vice versa. We are just 2 totally different people now. The woman I am is not the woman you need. The man you are is not the man I need. We've lived apart for over a year and we are not the same people anymore.

Anyway she's excusing me from the marriage why I should move on but also she's defeated of control over over me.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/08/02 02:04 PM
My W has told me that when we were apart, she cried herself to sleep many nights, she missed me, the kids, her life, etc. I never expected to hear this, when we were apart, she always seemed so happy, that life was great with OM. I think that WS put on a front to the BS, they don't want us to see that maybe things are not so great.

I also think that in most cases, the WS has some sort of internal problem that leads to the affair. Of course if the spouse is not meeting their ENs that contributes but I believe that most have some issue on their own. For EC is sounds like his XW had a control problem, for me, it was my W self esteem and inability to face problems. Until the WS is ready to face their own issues, there can be no true reconciliation and the A will probably continue, ie the fog. My 2 cents.

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/08/02 02:36 PM
Hi All,
To the best of my knowledge, my WW has not grieved over her "M" or the lose of her family.
Of course I have not heard from her in almost four months so it's hard to say, but I don't think there is very much grieving going on.
I have read other posts where the WS does grieve over the BS, but it's only after the OP has left the picture.
I believe that once reality sets in for them as to what they gave up... that is when they begin to grieve for the BS.
Usually it's to late because the BS has either moved on, or moved apart such as EC has referred to
I agree with TMCM, Petvet, and Dave's posts.
It's sad that people don't think before they act. if they did... most of us probably wouldn't be here.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/08/02 02:49 PM
Thanks Davepr for sharing that, I just wonder sometime if they WS's ever feel anything for the BS as much as we do for them.

My xw gives the impression today as if being away from me is the best thing that ever happened and she's on this happy go lucky journey, never looking back.

Thanks
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/08/02 02:56 PM
Thanks Wallace Good Point.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/08/02 04:19 PM
EC,
IMHO, I think that most WSs are in such a deep fog while being with OP that they don't grieve very much for the BS.
In fact most of them use the BS and any unhappy thoughts of the "M" as justification for continuing their "A".
The WS looks at all the negatives of the "M" and compares it to the life they are leading with the "OP" at the moment.
I believe that the WS compares the life they are living now with the life they had in their "M" on a daily basis. I believe they do this everyday... for a very long period of time.
When the life they had in their "M" is more fullfilling than with the "OP", or the "OP" dumps them, then and only then is there a chance for a "M" to be truly reconciled.
I don't believe that the "WS's" grief, compares to the grief the "BS" feels.
If the "WS" felt anything like the "BS" did, there would be a lot less "D".
That's my take on it anyway.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/08/02 11:46 PM
Hi all!

EC: You know I believe my W has some control issues. My mom told me from the get go that my W would be a control freck. I believe that the turning point of her moving out was when she felt she had no control. She use to always say to me that I never listen to her or do what she wanted me to do. Case in point, after she moved out, she wanted me to sign away all of my rights to her life insurance policies, retirement, investments, etc. Of course, my attorney said no way in hell. One day I arrived at her spacious Biltmore Estate crib, and she had all the paper work in hand. She asked me to sign the papers; I said no then she firmly said "just sign it, do what I tell you to do". That was an eye opener, but made my point that she felt she had no control over me. She did not want a partnership but a dictatorship. She use to write me letters saying that we had nothing in common. When I think back, I noticed that she could not get alone with mature, well educated women; however, she has many male and female misfits that she calls friends including the OP. She has called me at work twice in two days. I say very little if anything. At this point, whether WS feel guilt or not does not matter at a certain point. As I said earlier, it's either for you or it's against you.

Later.
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 08/09/02 03:38 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Wallace:
<strong>
I don't believe that the "WS's" grief, compares to the grief the "BS" feels.
If the "WS" felt anything like the "BS" did, there would be a lot less "D".
That's my take on it anyway.
Stay Strong!
Wallace</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you for the most part Wallace, but I've seen quite a few xWS's that have attempted suicide when the full realization of what they did hits them right smack between the eyes. Nobody wants to be the bad guy and WS's are no exception so they tend to build these walls made of excuses against the BS's to justify their A's but if and when they can no longer use their excuses to protect themselves, they find themselves engulfed in an unbearable sea of guilt. The thing is that their BS has moved on and they no longer have their OP to help them cope, so they end up alone in their most darkest hour. Talk about punishment.

As for myself I'd rather be the BS than the WS any day of the week.

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 03:28 AM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/09/02 05:52 AM
Hello all, very good postings here. Thats a good earthshaking point TMCM....Now I remember a persons post where their WS tried to commit suicide after OP left. I think her post name is DanaB....her WH tried that after marriage relationship with OP failed......So I guess what you say is true, they are consumed in a sea of guilt when OP hits the road.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/09/02 10:46 AM
Hi all:

TMCM:Very good point on the grief issue with the WS. They reap what they sow. What goes around comes around. I guess you can tell that I have no pity. You are very insightful. I'm glad you and EC have join the rest of the gang at this thread.

Avondale: Have you heard from hubby?

RMA: What's your comment on the last couple of posts?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/09/02 11:19 AM
Hi y'all,

PETVET- nothing new since my last post 8/6...I think he's in NY finishing a class but indicated he'd get his stuff early next week. Meanwhile, I hate my imagination <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Thanks for asking!

ALL - I'm curious, with all this talk about WS guilt, does that make a case for "holding out" on developing new relationships by BS as part of "moving on"? Or is it just part of the price one pays for infidelity? Should it even matter to BS? (I think I know what Petvet's answer will be, lol)Hope you all have a great weekend!
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 08/09/02 12:21 PM
Hello all,

EC's friend wrote:"but when you started advancing in life and became the leader you always were, she felt she was losing control over you."

RMA reply: I have posted numerous times on these boards that I think control issues are paramount issues in affairs. Perhaps for some it is control over the other spouse, but mostly, I truly believe that the WS has come to a point in his/her life where he/she feels 100% out of control of their own lives and they look for an escape/diversion. For people seeking a diversion it may become drinking, drugs, gambling, etc. or in our case, affair(s).

I really believe the affair is more about the unhappiness of the WS than the state of the marriage, in many cases. The WS is really not happy with where they are at that point in their life, and the marriage is a part of that. The unhappiness is internal to the WS.

The solution lies in the WS's ability to cope and problem solve themselves out of their own unhappy situations. That may involve the BS doing a better job to meet ENs, not LB, etc, as these may be big contributors to the WS's unhappiness. But, boys and girls, we are ALL adults and all responsible for ourselves, when push comes to shove. If we want to have a good partner, we have to be a good partner. The WS has a responsiblity to the BS to try to work through the issues in which the BS is contributing to the general state of unhappiness. However, most of us on these boards were never given a fair chance to do that. Our spouses became involved with someone else and our WS spent the effort and energy in making the affair relationship work rather than trying to cope and problem solve the marital relationship.

What is worrisome is that the WS learns through this that the best way to revolve conflict and work through problems is to get up and leave them behind. Unfortunately, history does have a way of repeating itself, if not efforts are made to change behaviors and thinking.

RMA
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/09/02 01:55 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What is worrisome is that the WS learns through this that the best way to revolve conflict and work through problems
is to get up and leave them behind. Unfortunately, history does have a way of repeating itself, if not efforts are made
to change behaviors and thinking.

RMA </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally agree with this, this was so true in our case.... but becasue so much of the problem is as RMA put it "internal to the WS" the problems just keep getting worse for the WS so they have to to run further, like many of your WS are doing, or face reality like my W finally did.
I compare it to a drug addict, they know it is bad for them, they can't stop doing it, they pretend that everything is fine to everyone else and many times to themselves.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I agree with you for the most part Wallace, but I've seen quite a few xWS's that have attempted suicide when the full
realization of what they did hits them right smack between the eyes. Nobody wants to be the bad guy and WS's are
no exception so they tend to build these walls made of excuses against the BS's to justify their A's but if and when
they can no longer use their excuses to protect themselves, they find themselves engulfed in an unbearable sea of
guilt. The thing is that their BS has moved on and they no longer have their OP to help them cope, so they end up
alone in their most darkest hour. Talk about punishment. TMCM </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I spoke with several of the WS that post her on MB, one in particular helped me alot. I WS helping a BS... well she ended up back with her H and going through all of this she was a good coach. Here are parts of 2 different e-mails she sent to me, very insightful.

"More than likely, Lynn will be one of the statistics. Her life with the OM probably will explode. But, if she someday decides to come knocking at your door, it may be too little too late.

Life somehow or another does go on. You've suffered for far too long. However, the D proceedings will require a whole new type of strength. Then, there is grieving afterwards to look forward too.

Dave, the most important thing in life is YOU and your kids. I would have concerns over someone else around my kids too. It will be interesting to find out if the law helps you out in regards to this kind of situation. How about the fact that Lynn is not currently employed? Doesn't that give you any leverage in custody? I'm just throwing thoughts out there.

The interesting thing is that she is flying by the seat of her pants. She emails that she doesn't know what to do, yet looks at homes with the OM. She is definitely in the place that all the books talk about. The WS is soooo predictable, it is pathetic. It is near insanity at its finest! I am so incredibly embarrassed that I was in that place, nearly 5 years ago. I still cannot believe that I was in this bad movie that is in my memories.

Well, she'll snap out of it someday and she'll regret all these decisions she's making. She'll be asked someday, by your children, why she is divorced. She won't be able to tell them anything nice, will she? "

" For me anyway and several other WW that I've spoken with, once the bubble breaks, a bewildered feeling begins to take hold. It is not something that can be explained, nor did we want to talk about it. Eventually over time, it becomes embarrassing and very very shameful. Again, difficult to discuss. After another period of time, it all starts to sink in. "My God, what have we done!" We were in pond scum. To tell someone the full ramifications of what we have done, runs the risk of hurting them further.

Depression can and probably will take hold. Not to scare you, but for you to keep in the back of your mind, I became suicidal. A couple of other woman spoke of this too. One of my email ladies was in the psychological "watch" wing for 3 weeks. However, some never experienced it as bad as others - thankfully. When the fog lifts, it exposes us fully. There is nothing to hide from any longer. The shame is overwhelming and won't wash off our skin. The guilt over the agony we have imposed on so many people is constantly on our minds. We are very paranoid that everytime we speak to our loved ones and friends, that they are thinking about their disgust towards us. We also lived in fear that the OM's wife is just around the corner for revenge.
Another huge obstacle is discovering "how" and "why" we all got ourselves into this mess. "Inner Self Reflection" as my brother puts it, is a hard nut to swallow. It can start off as blaming everyone else other than ourselves. Lynn has thrown a lot of blame your way, but will have to start looking inside herself. This obstacle was probably the roughest for me. I was a quivering mess in the corner when all my demons came out. I finally fully understood the ramifications of what I had done. I knew "why" I had the affair and I wasn't pretty. Boom, I hit bottom like a sack of potatoes."
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/10/02 05:22 AM
Hi All,
I am in full agreement with what everybody has posted concerning the pain that the "WS" feels.
TMCM... I agree with the fact that many "WS" feel suicidal at some point. I also think many "BS" feel the same way at any given time as well.
My STBXW had commented to me once, that she had contemplated suicide. I looked at her in amazement when she blurped that out.
She had just come back home from one of her six week outings.
Little did I know she was out having an "A", it never even entered my mind.
When she made that statement as far as killing herself. I told her, no I begged her, to please come to me if she felt that way ever again.
I begged her to come to me and communicate with me about anything, anything at all that may have been bothering her... she never did. In fact she would always tell me that everything was fine.
I agree with your statement...when the "WS" is alone... no "OP" and the "BS" has moved on and they have no one to turn to, that they reach their darkest hour.
That by far is a true punishment far greater than anything the "BS" will ever feel IMHO.
RMA... You summed up my whole situation in your last post. You described myself and my STBXW right to a tee... that was an excellent post.
Dave ... Thank you for sharing the insight of what a "WS" is going through and feeling.
I'm just curious... she says in the post, "she will snap out of it someday"... Is this when the "OM" dumps her, that they snap out of it?
Or does she just wake up one day and realize that they have really screwed things up for themselves and everyone around them and decide it's time to try to go back home?
It's just a thought.
Hope things are still going well for you.
Petvet ... I think in spite of the control issues, she is out of control, such as RMA has stated.
I still believe she is going to do a 180 on you and make a move to come back home.
Keep doing what your doing, and I believe your "W" will come back.
Will you be ready for her when she does?
Avondale... Try not to let your imagination get to you. If you let it, it will beat you right into the ground.
Use this time on bettering yourself... don't dwell on it if you can (I know that it is easier said than done).
Jump into something that you feel like doing to occupy your time.
To answer your question about the "WS" guilt... if it really matters to the "BS".
In my case it does matter.
I would like to know what my STBXW is feeling, so I can possibly put things into perspective concerning this whole mess.
EC... I look at it like this... either our "WS" are living the life that they chose, or are living in a "sea of guilt".
In my case, I think my STBXW is living the life that she wants. I don't believe she is feeling very much guilt.
That's my 2 cents worth.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ August 09, 2002, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/09/02 06:19 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dave ... Thank you for sharing the insight of what a "WS" is going through and feeling.
I'm just curious... she says in the post, "she will snap out of it someday"... Is this when the "OM" dumps her, that they
snap out of it?
Or does she just wake up one day and realize that they have really screwed things up for themselves and everyone
around them and decide it's time to try to go back home?
It's just a thought.
Hope things are still going well for you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wallace, I don't think it takes the OM dumping them to snap out of it, I think in time they come to realize that the OM and A is not what they thought it was going to be, ie reality. I know several cases like this, in these cases it was the WS that dumped the OP.
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/10/02 11:33 AM
Hi all! RMA & Dave, thanks for your wonderful posts. I agree with them totally. I think that most WS hit rock bottom after they realize that the euphoria of the A has worn off and they realize what they have given up. Also, embarrassment plays a part in all this. I can't tell the negative comments I have received from women who know about my situation towards my W. The WS behavior is not something you brag about unless you are Jennifer Lopez. Most decent people will frown on such behavior even if the WS tries to blame their BS. Many people still don't know what is going on between my W and I, but I am getting more and more questions.

Wallace: I cannot believe that your W can substain this type of lifestyle and enjoy it over the long term. The OP is going to dump her sooner than later. I still think that something is up with the MIL. Your W may want to use your MIL as a barometer to see we your mindset is. MIL is calling for a reason. Do you know whether OP is still around?

Avondale: Don't worry about this (Easier said than done). Concern yourself with what you can control not him. Keep in mind that many of your husband's respones are influence by the OP feeding your H ego. She is in the background helping to push the buttons. It is a control thing for the OP as well because they have someone who really values them and depends on them even though they are creeps as well. Your H does not see that because he is busy trying to escape his marriage. Keep your head up! Oh! I just forgot. Keep your eyes on the your marriage until its end. I know it is easy to want someone else because it is a natural feeling to want someone to love you. Take care of YOU internally. Make yourself better.

Me: I pull into the driveway yesterday after work and guess who was at the house? Yep, you guess it wifey sitting on the livingroom floor
playing with kid.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/10/02 02:23 PM
Petvet, your story is starting to sound like where mine was in May... W could not come into the house as she didn't have a key but I would come home from work and W and kids would have jumped the 4ft fence to the backyard and be playing on the swing set. The calls, the snooping around, coming in, all sound familiar to me...

I was going to send this and just asked W what coming into the back yard and playing meant.. she replied that she missed her life and this was part of slowing trying to come back... coming back meaning all internal to her.... part of HER recovery, not ours....
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/11/02 04:52 AM
Dave: You and Wallace are more optimistic than I am. Things may be hopeful, but I will believed it when it happens. In my opinion, W has too much pride to admit that she was wrong. That's her trademark. I don't think she can change; it's too below her. She would say, "you've got to be kidding". It would mean reality. It is much easier to continue the fantasy. I'm not going to get my hopes up.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/11/02 07:32 PM
Petvet,no,I don't think you should get your hopes up,you have come too far, just keep going,if it happens and you want it then great but don't let yourself get hurt. I am optimistic for you.Hope you had a good weekend.
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/12/02 03:34 PM
Hi All,
My MIL called me yesterday, and I decide to answer the call.
The conversation consisted of this... "She wanted to pay me for the time it took me to fix her plumbing... nothing more, nothing less.
STBXW and the ending of my "M", my children, never came up during the telephone conversation... nothing.
So that was it... I told her to keep her money, I didn't need or want it.
My "BIL" evidently had called her and told her she had a lot of nerve... lying to me about talking to STBXW and then calling me up to come fix her plumbing. I guess this is how this all got started.
There is nothing more to be read into it.
On October 22nd, my "M" will be over... there is no doubt in my mind.
Petvet... to answer your question about OP still being around?
I believe that not only is he around I believe that she is living with him.
This is pure speculation on my part.
I base it on the statement that my MIL made while I was fixing her plumbing, "She has a lot to answer to God to".
This was spoken from a person who doesn't even believe in God. So "WW has to be up to something pretty bad for her to say something like that.
I could be wrong about this, but I'm going with my gut feel on this one.
I personally think I will never hear from her again.
Petvet... I think your "W" wants to come back home.
She probably will not admit to her mistakes, but that is not going to stop her from wanting to come back home.
Only you can stop her from that... the ball is in your court.
How are you going to play it?
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/12/02 08:50 PM
Wallace,
Are you at least glad to hear that "explanation" re: MIL and plumbing? Is it possible your MIL didn't know what else to say (some family members feel awkward or don't want to take sides sometimes, right)? It seems your in-laws are split as to whose "side" they're on, is that correct? It's good your BIL stood up for you!

I'm sorry you have that date looming in front of you...be sure to take your own advice and Stay Strong! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/12/02 10:23 PM
Hi Avondale,
How are you doing?
You sound like you are doing well under the circumstances.
Anything new happening on your end?
To answer your question as far as my MIL's reason for calling... I found it rather insulting.
I went up to fix their plumbing because I wanted to just help them out as just a nice gesture.
I never expected any compensation from them for it.
I took it as a slap in the face.
After that insulting call, I would never go up there and do anything of the kind for them ever again... they can hire a plumber next time.
There is a split amongst my in-laws concerning my situation.
My "BIL" is in the midst of losing his "M", because he informed me of one of my STBXW's "A's"... he was told to leave his home because he infromed me of the "A".
As far as Staying Strong, thanks for the reminder Avondale.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/13/02 01:44 AM
Hi guys and gals, I had an interesting weekend. My exw sent me an email stating she has not recieved papers yet I sent, it's been more than 1 week. I haven't held any conversation with her since May, if I've spoken to her its quick to the point in which I've only had 1 phone conversation with her since may. Well she sends me an email telling me what D's are upto she don't know OD sent me a letter. Well any way she tells me in part of the email she saw my niece picture on the internet who is 14, I asked where, I get no response. I then ask my sister the next day if she knew about this, well things kinda hit the fan in that house, oopss, hope my niece will forgive me.

Well I find out the site is kinda ronchy....Strange part is, my exw would have had to do a search on the state,age range,gender, etc...then look at every id and profile that appeared, she stumbled on my niece, my niece said she did that a year ago, they currently suspended kids internet service 1 year ago.

Funny part is exw wouldn't tell me where she found her picture, I think it's because she was somewhere she shouldn't be, I wouldn't put it past my xw that her own picture is posted up in dirty way, this is the same kinda stuff I dealt with when all the affairs were discovered. She made her breast larger through photo manipulation I remember in one internet bust that happened.

She's searching for things in the State I'm in 1,200 miles away. Makes me wonder. This is where she is from, sometimes I wonder if she'll ever move back since OD is out of the house and YD has about 1 1/2 - 2yrs before shes on her way out.

I'm not looking for her but where she is she's by herself and YD, no family or real friends besides OM.

In her emails she's trying hold a conversation but I give a 4 word response and mention nothing about me or ask any questions about her, such as she said, Oh I've been so busy lately traveling at work and things....I say nothing, I don't ask where she works, nothing...

So there's something happening, I feel her trying to make more contact....I remember In late 2001 she was secretly job searching in the state I live in.

Now I'm trying figure why is she searching profiles of female youth?
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/13/02 10:48 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: Sorry to hear that our speculations were wrong about MIL.I guess there's not much to say. I guess you know your W better than anyone. Your BIL must be a morally grounded person. Not many people would have done what he did in informing you about the A's. By the way, how did he find out about your W's A's? How are you going to get CS from W if you cannot find her?

EC: Your ex W really many issues does she?

Me: Wallace, I am not going to speculate on my situation. No, the ball is not in my court; the ball is in her court. If she tries to return, I will pray on it. Change has to be in order. Her pride is too great for her to return. That's my opinion.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/13/02 11:42 AM
Everlasting - all the reasons I can think of are not ones suitable for printing here...it sounds like something out of a TV show. (of course, all our dramas sound like they are fodder for tv <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )Perhaps the OM was searching the site and she noticed and was curious as to what it was? Or maybe your niece confided in your XW (or other family member) about posting her pic. That's about as innocent a reason as I can come up with.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/13/02 02:50 PM
Petvet...
You're "W" sounds very much like mine as far as having too much pride to want to come back.
I don't know about your "W", but mine doesn't have very much at this point to be proud of.
I would agree with you as far as "change needs to be in order", concerning your "W".
Why would you want to start over again, only to find out that nothing in the relationship has changed. You would only be setting yourself up for another fall.
I would let God lead your way on this one.
My "BIL" found out about my STBXW's "A's" through a conversation he overheard between his "W" and my "MIL" at his house.
While they were talking, they thought he was sleeping on the couch in the family room they were in.
Guess what... he was only pretending... he wasn't asleep at all... he heard everything.
The sad part of it all, is I already knew about what my "WW" was up to. He just added a little more to the mix.
He is paying a heavy price for it though, because now his "M" is on the ropes.
He moved out becasue they (MIL lives with them) told him to get out of the house, and no one knows where he is right now.
He was staying with me for awhile, but his "W" found out some how, so he felt it best that he leave.
As far as the child support goes... there is a child services center that is run by the State that can locate where "WW" lives, works, etc., and they can garnish her paychecks, once we get the court order to do so.
EC...
It sounds like you have got some pretty wild things going on?
Who put your niece's picture up on the internet?
I'm having a hard time following that one.
Your "W" seems to have some real issues going on.
How do you know she is trying to come back to the State your in?
Have you been in contact with her through various emails?
It does soundS like you had an interesting weekend.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/13/02 08:28 PM
Hi Wallace and everyone,

Thanks for your thoughts, I don't know what to make of her internet searching, I could see that happening if my D's were on the net and you want to monitor what might be happening, but they don't even have a phone in the house, xw wife is at work surfing.

I can't say she's looking to move here, thats a wild, wild guess and me just trying to let go, you always wonder sometimes, I just remember late 2001, her making mention of places here and how the job market was in the State where I am and told me who was hiring, I was looking for work at the time. I am only guessing because she will be by herself soon, no family or friends there,just OM, she's not the type that can be alone for too long.

My thoughts were if she's searching profiles in this State and appears she hasn't changed, she might still be up to her old tricks. I'm sure she's cheating on OM.

Well anyway my imagination could just be running wild making more of something than it is.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 08/13/02 11:07 PM
Hello all,

EC, I don't even want to guess what your W must have been up to in order to find those pics. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

avondale, you sound like you are weathering the storm OK. You are in my prayers.

Wallace, the story with your BIL is rather pathetic. What a thing for a marriage to break up - that he would get thrown out for telling you details of an affair you were already aware of. Your W's family does not sound like they value marriage very much.

davepr, how is the anger? How are you coping, friend?

Petvet, I agree the ball is in your W's court. You have done everything to let her know you are open to discussions of reconciliation. If she does indicate to you a willingness to try, I do think you have it "in you" to give her another chance. However, I agree that she must be the one to make the first move, or you would just be setting yourself up for a false reconciliation and more hurt.

Prayers and hugs all the way around...RMA
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/14/02 12:07 AM
Hi RMA, How are things with you? Well, I think I am starting to let go of the past and put this behind me, I have a long way to go, but I feel that I am improving. Things are good with us, we are going to VA this weekend to visit W sister and family and then going white water rafting
in West VA, I have never been so it should be fun.
I think OM gave up, no attempts to contact us in
many weeks now.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/14/02 02:43 AM
Hi RMA, I don't what she was up to, who knows....

Well today was the first time I had any lengthy conversation with her via email, she sounds like she's still arrogant as ever, but at the same time her world is crashing down, its like she's standing strong before the ship goes down, kaboom!!

I found out she no longer works at the same place but now making less and no overtime. So something happened. I found out at the time when her car was about to be repo'ed it wasn't running and needed major repairs.....its a fairly new car, I don't get it? I'm amazed since she launched out in all these affairs that her financial downfall has been unreal.

So looking back in June she must have lost her job and her car wasn't working or car stopped working so she maybe had to quit her job because job was an hour away, she had no way to get there......She's getting hammered big time....

I knew if her gods [job and car= money] would be shaken she would feel less powerful, she loves money real bad....When she left me, she felt on Top of the world like I was low life scum as if I had nothing to offer no one in life as she marched in my face with her affairs, man I'll never forget that.

I remember the we're diff now thing, you're no fun, just many things that a person would say and do only if they had extra money. I remember the secret conversations she had how well she was going to be doing away from me now and the new life and greener grass.

Having to tell her that her mothers things were stolen from storage is bothering her now she feels a great since of loss, she said that was all she had of her mother and the things she grew up with and now they're all gone now.

She is having it rough, all this within 2 months, OD left home, unplanned job change, financial issues and making less, 18 year marriage she cheated in and divorced, car messing up weekly, mothers things stolen, somewhere she's going to have stop and deal with herself.

Breaking communication with her has been the best thing for me, I'm glad I did that now, what a mess, she still has OM as she said in her email, but what he chased after is not what he's going to get in the end, she's going to be a broken down woman with a lot of baggage.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/14/02 03:35 AM
Hi all!

RMA: I'm feeling pretty good. Anniversary is tommorrow,and it does not bother me. I will not acknowledge it. I'm ready to move on. This has been a long ordeal,and I cannot be involve with someone who is against me. It will take a miracle to save my marriage. W has missed so many opportunities. I have noticed that after my attorney went through alot of evidence in my case, she became upset at how my W has treated me. As a matter of fact, attorney has notified W's attorney that W has until Friday to pay be all child support due or a contempt order will be filed with the court. W has brought so much trouble for herself. Kid told me this morning that I am the best dad in the world. To hear that makes the goal of a peaceful household all worth it.

EC: Oh yes! I remember the cocky proclamations from my W as well. I am no good, we were not meant for eachother, my best is not enough, no respect, etc. It would seem that your W should still be cocky. It's amazing what a reality check does to a beefed up ego.

Dave: I see you are getting there; slowly but surely.

Wallace: I will find out my court date later this
week. Both of our marriages will end soon. Let our wives find the lives that so much desire. You and I can watch them florish and live the lives of royality. Someone else can deal with them. How are you feeling? I am feeling pretty good right about now.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/14/02 03:24 PM
Hi All,
A good friend of mine died last night... so I'm not doing well at the moment. I will be attending his funeral on Friday.
When I heard the news... I started to think to myself... what is this all about?
Life! It's so short, and it's taken for granted by so many people.
"There is no guarantee for tomorrow".
If maybe people could just stop and realize how precious our time is here... things might be a lot different.
I said many prayers last night and this morning.
It really put things into perspective... what the important things in my life are.
I guess death is a reminder, that we should all hold dear everything that is importamt to us.
"All things must pass"... George Harrison's Album
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/14/02 09:08 PM
Wallace: Yes, life is too short and precious to be unhappy. One has to live life one day at a time because tommorrow is not promised to us. In times of lost of a love one, one can only sit back and reflect. I wish your friend a safe trip home. May the Lord be with him.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/14/02 09:31 PM
Petvet,
Thank you for the kind response... it does give you cause for pause when something like this happens.
You hang in there, I know what you are going through.
I'm sure tomorrow being your aniversary is going to be a little rough.
Petvet, I agree that both of our marriages will be over soon.
They will get to lead the lives that they evidently seemed so hell bent on living.
I don't plan on watching them live their lives... I hope you don't either.
Maybe when your STBXW feels the sting of "CS" she may realize how big of a mistake she really made.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/14/02 10:05 PM
Double posted by accident.
Wallace

<small>[ August 14, 2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 08/15/02 12:39 AM
davepr,

The trip to VA sounds wonderful! You have been given another chance and it sounds as if both you and your W are really trying to do things right this time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace,

I am sorry about your friend passing away. Death does give us the impetus to re-evaluate our own lives and situations. Just know that in due time, your situation will be all sorted out. You have been a real trooper here. Prayers for you, your friend and all that he touched.

EC,

Yes, I agree that your W is headed for a big crash. Reality will hit here sooner or later. It doesn't even have to be that she will miss you and want you back. But. I'd bet money that she realizes one day, and perhaps even one day real soon, that she walked out on an awful lot and perhaps her life with you wasn't so bad after all.

Petvet,

All is great here. I really have no complaints. Things are going along swimmingly well for me and just writing that makes me nervous as if I am going to jinx myself somehow. Let us know when you get your court date. Oh, by the wway, any response from her lawyer about your W being so much in arrears on the CS?

Too Much Coffee,

How goes it for you this week????

RMA
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/15/02 01:05 AM
Hi Y'all
Wallace - sorry about your friend. I had same thoughts about life's uncertainties after 9/11. Which was only a few weeks after D day at my house, so it was made more poignant.

Update on me: hubby came back to town from school in NYC last week. As per my request, he came to get his stuff out of the house 2 days ago. We had heretofore (how's THAT for a word?!) interacted via e-mail. But he called me at work to tell me he had gotten most of the "visible" stuff and would need a couple more trips to get the rest of it. It was SOOO hard to talk to him on the phone about inconsequential things (compared to our lives right now) and remain unmoved (but I did). However I broke down in tears after we hung up. I am so thankful I have a private office with a locked door!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/15/02 04:13 AM
Hello all,

Well xw decided to email me today, it was in response to I told her I wasn't in favor of her adultery and won't endorse it. Well her response was what does this have to do with filling out CS modification papers. She says, "now I apologized for being late on payments that affected your credit", I tried to be positive and tell you I'll fill out the papers and whatever else you want, why are so negative towards me? Do you want me to be a friend or enemy?, I can be an enemy you know (of course I already thought she was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) ooops!

Then she says ok what do you need me to do? Tell me what to fill out and lets do this right, do you need me to do this or that? See I'm trying to help you just tell me what you need. See didn't I tell you need to do this and that?

Ok guys, this is just a peice of things today...Now she has me wondering, I know her. She gave me this odd feeling I remember when we were married how she would participate and be nice and do business stuff, she knew to help me was a way to my heart back then and get in good after a spat. Even though she got mad at me today at one point she didn't turn me away and say I had enough of him don't talk to me, etc...this time its like she's trying to keep the door open and not have me shut it on her, she was being extra nice, before she wanted nothing to do with me.

Ok, I tried something I shouldn't have <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , don't try this at home. Have you ever had your curiosity eat you up? well mine did. So I decided to test mine. I've been strong all this time and resisted her and here I go.In three different emails at the end I said diff things, in one I said, you must want me to hold you in my arms, no response on that, another you must still be deeply in Love with me? no response, another, you must want me to kiss you, no response.

She always corresponded on the other issues in each email but always skipped the tail end personal message....I was surprized though, she used to say, I'm not attracted you that way, or I'm not interested in you, or please keep that to yourself, those things will never happen between us, I don't feel that way about you, go find someone else, etc....

So I tested the waters, I'd still be scared at this point to take her back because she is still arrogant and unrepentant, but it's interesting she's not knocking down my words like before.

I don't recommend anyone doing what I did, my circumstance is different than others. Breaking communication, Plan B does work., she's careful now not to have me cut her off again.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/15/02 05:15 AM
Hi all:

Wallace: "They will get to lead the lives that they evidently seemed so hell bent on living. I don't plan on watching them live their lives.. I hope you don't either." Well said. I'm ready to be happy without dealing with someone who is against me.

EC: Be careful, don't get yourself hurt again. Are you and your W legally divorce? You had mentioned that you got on her about her adultery, but if you guys are divorce, she can have as many relationships as she wants. I can tell that you still have feelings for her.

RMA: I know what you mean when you say that things are going so well that you know that the grimweeper is around the corner. I found out that wifey is in the market for another apartment. As far as the CS is concern, payment is due today. My attorney informed me that she sent a letter to her attorney to inform him that if they do not return the Mediation Agreement to her office by this Friday that she will file a Motion to Enforce the Stipulation Agreement. Wifey owes me over $600.

Avondale: I have cried as well. In such cases as ours, we are only human. There is only so much pain that we can take without letting it out. It's that pain that will make us stronger. At some point, you will build enough armour around you that no matter what you WS does to you, it does not hurt as much. Stay strong.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/15/02 11:55 AM
Petvet - While I was running this morning you came to my mind; just wanted you to know you were in my prayers today.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/15/02 12:36 PM
Hi Avondale, yes, we are dv'ed was final in May. I made mention to her of that because in one aspect she's looking for my approval on the issue and she's not getting it. To be friends in her eyes I'm sure is to ease her guilt.

Many people have warned me about keeping away from her for the fear of getting sucked back into her mess and manipulation and getting used.

One thing I did see though was even though I have feelings it wasn't like what it once was, I saw that I moved on somewhat, 21 years don't dissolve quickly, its was like she would have to come up to where I am, I'm no longer back there anymore.

I felt a heavy weight thinking of the possibility of being with her later, going right back to all the games and sneaking snapped me back into reality. I said to myself, you better keep moving on and leave that door shut, you're asking for trouble.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/15/02 02:31 PM
Hi All,
I'm doing better today than yesterday.
Thank you all for all responses, it helps... make no mistake about it.
RMA... If your life is anything likemine... just when you think things are going good... it isn't.
Lets hope that's not the case for you.
I'm glad to hear your doing well.
PETVET... Have you heard from your "W" in the last couple of days?
I noticed that you haven't mentioned talking to her... is it because of the CS issues?
When is your next court date?
I don't know about you, but I will sure be glad to have this end so I know where and how we are going to land on this one.
It really works on you at times.
DAVE... I hope you have a good vacation this weekend.
I know I could sure use one.
Keep up the good work.
AVONDALE... There will be many times that your emotions will run so high that you will swear that you are losing your mind.
Our "WS's" will hit every nerve they can before it's all said and done with.
Over time, you will be surprised, just how much of their garbage you will be able to handle.
You will become a much stronger person after it all concludes.
So there is a positive side to it all.
EC... I think it would be wise to listen to what your friends are telling you for now.
For your own well being... I think I would stay clear of her for awhile until she decides to come back down to earth.
I too can sense that you still have strong feelings for her still... even though you are "D".
But for your own good... you need to start taking care of yourself and not think about her for now (as hard as that may be).
She has a lot of issues she needs to work through.
Give it some time, maybe she will get past her issues in time and then you might want to try to renew the relationship again.
I think I know what you mean about the adultry issue.
Even though your "D".
From a Biblical standpoint and in the eyes of God, it's still adultry no matter how many relationships she has... if it involves any form of sexual contact.
TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN... Whats going on, anything worhtwhile?
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 10:40 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 08/16/02 12:50 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Orinal post by Wallace:<strong>TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN... Whats going on, anything worhtwhile?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Wallace. I've been terrorizing the other boards with my caffeinated comments and just wish I haven't screwed up anybody else's life more than they already are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Not much is happening here on the home front and I kind of like it that way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> My daughters are finishing up their last days of summer vacation and are of course bummed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> .My lady has had a cold for the last two weeks and yours truly has been babying her and thus have made big time deposits in her love bank <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .As far as my xWW is concerned, she is still going to therapy and seems to be making good progress in the responsable parent department. She still sends me the occasional 'I'm sorry I hurt you, I know now that you are my true love, yada, yada, yada' e-mail <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , which ,after I show it to my lady, gets promptly deleted.

I've been following the thread on a daily basis and by your posts, you sure look like Ahnold or Hercules twin bro (emotionally speaking of course) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

So how are you?

<small>[ August 15, 2002, 07:56 PM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/16/02 04:57 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: Thanks for thinking of me in your prayers. Jogging is very good for the body and soul. I run on a couple of times a week. I am in the process of resuming working out in the boxing gym. I need more physical workouts to obtain muscle tone because at my age just running the two or three days a week just does not get me where I want my weight to be. Don't get me wrong, when I was a kid I boxed but I do not get inside of the ring now because I value my facial features. I just work on the heavy and speed bags
along with rope work.

Wallace: What's the point in communicating with W unless I absolutely have to. I am quickly getting beyond her and her ______. I am approaching forty; I cannot and will not involve myself in this mess. It takes up too much unnecessary resources. She is either for me or against me. Since it appears that she is against me, I must move on. I don't need that kind of baggage. I need to prepare my resources to care for my kid and my retirement and a better life. As long as I am invlove in this mess, I am going to continue threading water and running in place rather than moving forward and making progress. Negative and positive do not mix. All the mess I am going through with CS only highlight the messy world that my W lives. Nothing has changed. I have to have order in my life. That's just the way I am.

EC: I agree with your statement about WS having to come up to your level rather than you going back down to her. Who have time to deal with this negative stuff? All their(WS) junk just rolls right of you after a certain point. I believe Avondale will get to this point sooner than later.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/16/02 01:06 PM
Hi Petvet, yep going back to where she is would be a major step backwards, she's been in the same mentality for about 2 years now when she first started drifting. From what I can tell just knowing her, even though she puts on a front as if things are going ok, there's been a major change In her I can't describe yet, I think her eyes are coming open now, she was still arrogant but it was a whole lot weaker voice behind it.

Her speech is different now, she's trying to be level headed somewhat, ...Whatever took place in the past 2 months did something, no car and major job and income loss and whatever else happened shook her world. She was having trouble making it before, I can't imagine what it's like now.

On the CS issue. She knew OD had to be dropped from CS but she also thought I had back child support to pay for a number of years for my OD/YD but thats paid, that was a blow to her financial outlook also and she was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> she counted on that I guess to make up some of the diff of her job income loss too. Therefore I'll just be paying for YD. All the money I paid before the court date in May and now all the overpayments for OD added up.

CS gets your attention I'm sure you're going to see the effect of that very soon with your WW.

Thanks Petvet and everyone for all the advice

Take Care
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 08/18/02 03:25 PM
Petvet,

You wrote:"What's the point in communicating with W unless I absolutely have to. I am quickly getting beyond her and her ______. I am approaching forty; I cannot and will not involve myself in this mess. It takes up too much unnecessary resources. She is either for me or against me. Since it appears that she is against me, I must move on. I don't need that kind of baggage. I need to prepare my resources to care for my kid and my retirement and a better life. As long as I am invlove in this mess, I am going to continue threading water and running in place rather than moving forward and making progress. Negative and positive do not mix. All the mess I am going through with CS only highlight the messy world that my W lives. Nothing has changed. I have to have order in my life. That's just the way I am."

RMA reply: This is how I feel about it all: The BS owes the WS a period of time for the WS to sort things out. I have stated many times that I believe the WS in an affair is in a turmoil and angst of their own. Things get complicated and the WS must have the time and space to sort these issues out. I believe that you owe your spouse some time and space to try to figure it all out. In the meantime, the BS should be doing everything they can to remove LBs, identify and try to meet ENs (to the extent they are allowed by the WS), and to focus on being a better person in general.

Yet, in my opinion, there does come a time when the BS must draw a line in the sand. The WS must make a decision to come back, or the BS must make the decision to move on as best as he/she can.

Petvet, in my book, you have done so many right things. You have Plan A'd your wife and done such a super job of it right from the start. You have given her every indication that you have desired to have her return to the marriage and be your wife. I agree with your thinking 100%. If she isn't going to come back and start doing anything to try to at least EXPLORE if the marriage can be saved, then there is nothing there to wait for. You are TRYING to move forward with your life to make it more meaningful for yourself, even though y ou do still care about her.

I definitely believe the WS deserves a life full of happiness. But, I also believe the BS is JUST as deserving of a life full of peace and happiness. If the WS chooses to leave, after a decent period of continuing to try and be receptive and open to forgiveness and reconciliation, if you as the BS choose to move yourself forward and try to reforge a new and hopefully happier life than the current hell you are living, then my opinion is that you should.

If at some point down the road your W (or maybe she will be an exW by then) decides maybe she made a big mistake, then you can decide at that point in your life, if you are open to giving her another chance or not. I feel it is healthier for you emotionally to try to move on at some point, and each person must decide when that point is. As can be seen from posts on these boards, that point is definitely different for each person.

To avondale, Wallace, EC, davepr and Too Much Coffee, hello to each of you and hope your Sunday is pleasant.

RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/20/02 05:45 AM
Hi All,
B]RMA[/B]...
I had a pretty decent weekend.
My "OD" had her 19th birthday yesterday.
We had a BBQ with the immediate family and I think it went rather well... all things considered.
My "STBXW" stuck with tradition and didn't acknowledge my "OD"birthday.
She did not send a card, telephone call, or anything, to wish her a Happy Birthday.
She did the samething to my other two kids as well.
She is a real piece of work... I know the kids just love her to death.
It will take years for her to ever reestablish any kind of a relationship with my children, if that.
Petvet...
Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying you should establish any kind of communication with your "WW".
In fact, you keep doing just exactly what you are doing... don't change a thing.
I was just wondering... she had been in contact with you quite a bit, and we hadn't heard anything more about her.
So I assume that she hasn't been around lately?
TooMuchCoffeeMan...
Glad to hear that nothing new is really going on... sometimes that is a very good thing.
I'm also glad to hear that your out there on the other boards.
I've read some of your posts on the other boards, you've got a lot of good advice... keep up the good work.
EC... It sounds like your "XW" is starting to do a crash and burn.
I wonder if she is regretting the decisions that she has made?
Reality has a way of bringing you back down to earth.
It appears she is going to hit hard real soon.
Avondale... How are you doing?
Is your "H" coming back to get more of his personal effects, or did he get it all when he came back this last time?
Dave... I hope you had a good weekend getaway and everything is still going well for you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/19/02 09:53 PM
Hello Wallace and everyone,

I can't imagine what kind of repair your WW will have to do, talking about total abandonment on her part.

You know more and more I'm starting to see as time goes on, its best to keep moving forward, its amazing as time goes on how when D-day first occured you feel like you're in a mist of a forest on fire trying find your way out then after a while you're walking out alive and you begin to look back as you get further away and think what a mess, everything is chared, you look at the forest fire and think, all that because the fire that belongs in a marriage the WS took outside the home and set other houses on fire from burning lust. The fire between a couple will always destroy if taken outside the bedroom of the home, it burns down everything in site,you, friends and family. The deception the WS has is, they think there is no fire in marriage but there is, its like a natural gas line, the pilot may go out, but the Gas is still on.

Then they go find OP and they say oh he/she really turns me on, he/she lights my fire....Problem with all that is, the WS left claiming they were no longer on fire in the marriage and didn't realize they had a leak and they get lite by OM/OW only to explode into tragedy later, they were leaking the whole time in the marriage but never fixed there problem, its always the BS that has the problem.

This is where my xww is now, she has a leak and she's turned on by OM who's lighting her fire, the things that caused that fire to burn at the start is dwindling down, now vapors are coming into to play, that thing is about to explode into a mess.

Will I know when it happens? probably not, the only thing I know is she'll be a broken woman when it does. The Gas was on in the marriage all along, and at some point they realize that.

Take Care
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 08/19/02 11:23 PM
Wallace,

How sad for your daughter to not be recognized by her Mother on her BD. You can not control these sad events, but only feel good that your child is secure in the love YOU have for her. May God continue to bless your most loving of hearts!

EC,

What a good analogy! Yes, I agree the WS oftens takes their leaks and baggage on to the new relationship. Your exW's problems are stating to get to her, huh? You can only pray that the mother of your children will learn and grow one day soon.

Hope you are all having a good Monday evening!

RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/20/02 10:37 AM
Hi all! Wallace, I think your W is at the point of no return. As you said, it will take years if ever for her to reestablish relationship with the kids. She is a total mess. Be happy in the fact that you will soon be no longer tied to her legally and emotionally.

EC: Your analogy hits the nail right on the head. From the WS view, it's all smoke and mirrors.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/20/02 03:16 PM
Hi All,
Well I am on the count down to the final "D" hearing... only 63 more days to go.
STBXW is expected to be a no-show for the hearing... why break tradition.
It would of been easier had she communicated with me so we could of drawn up an agreement. That would of been to easy though.
I think one of our main problems in our "M" was she never was able to communicate... and as you can see, she is still having trouble in that area.
As we all know, communication is one of the cornerstones to a happy "M".
RMA...
Thank you again for your prayers... they are always appreciated and needed as well.
Is you garden still going well? It's starting to get late in the season, at least over here it is.
Petvet...
It appears that both you and I picked some real winners to get married to.
You are absolutely correct... my STBXW is at the point of no return... with me as well as my children.
How are things going on your end?
I know you are pretty much heading in the same direction as I am.
You can only take so much, and then it's time to call it a day.
EC...
It sounds like your XW is going to explode all over the place.
Just make sure... when it happens... you don't get hit with any of the debris.
That was a good analogy you posted... keep your head down and your back against the wall on this one.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/22/02 04:48 AM
Yep Wallace, I guess we did marry a couple of winners. I imagine I should be counting down as well. I received some wonderful news from the Tribunal. Check this out: I cannot file for an annulment until at least one year after the divorce is final. Great! This means that I will have to continue dealing this mess for a couple years yet. Wow, I have something to look forward to. Oh! It only gets better. Wifey failed to make her CS payment. What is she thinking?

RMA: My garden is OUT OF CONTROL.

Avondale: Update, Update.

EC: Keep your protective armour on.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/22/02 04:56 PM
Petvet,
Sorry to hear the news from the Tribrunal.
It just seems like it never ends... but hopefully it will someday.
I didn't think your "W" would make her "CS" paymant.
I thought your attorney was filing a motion for contempt as far as the "CS" issue was concerned.
Where are you at on that?
I go to court today to try to get my money back.
If you recall my STBXW forged my signature on my bank account and left with a good chunck of money.
Seems the bank (that I filed suit against) thinks it's easier to fight me in court, than to just credit me my money back.
Well I'll know later on today how this one plays out.
I'll let you know the outcome.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/22/02 07:10 PM
Hi Y'all
I was thinking of posting today even though I haven't had much to say, just trying to follow along since you're farther down the road than I am at this point. I had intended to get everyone's feedback on the role in-laws play (good or bad) in tough love concepts...

BUT I had an unexpected appt with Steve Harley today (was set for next week but time slot opened up). The main reason I made the appt. was to get a different perspective from local counselor who had recommended Tough Love (but not much else) to me after H left. In talking to SH I realized our prior marriage counseling wasn't very focused on either us as individuals or our marriage (no homework, no goals, etc). Guess I was in a fog myself to not recognize it, but what do I know, I've never been through this before <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Or maybe I did but it was after H had left. Anyway, I feel encouraged after talking to him that no matter what happens, I will have another stone unturned and can hopefully rest with whatever outcome may be.

PETVET - sorry to hear about the CS but I know you weren't surprised. Now, is an out of control garden a good thing? LOL Hope it's the veggies that are growing and not the weeds!

WALLACE - Are you having to actually pay an attorney to go to court against the bank? How does that work? I hope the outcome is in your favor!

Well, it's back to work for me...I can smell the weekend ahead. Will see H when he comes by to do some yard work and can try my skills at communicating via Steve Harley's suggestion!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/23/02 03:51 PM
Hi All,
Well I went to Court yesterday and won... YAY!!!
So the Bank now has to credit my account for all the money my "STBXW" stole from my account by forging my signature on my personal checks.
If they don't credit the account by Monday, the Sherriffs Dept. is ready to come in with a garnishment... they ought to love that.
Well that was one small victory, now on to the rest of it.
Avondale...
I didn't have an attorney, I represented myself.
I felt the case was so open and shut, that I could handle it myself.
I started out in college wanting to be an attorney, but changed majors to business... so I had a little bit of background behind me.
Hope everyone is doing well.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/26/02 10:30 AM
Hi all! I've been very busy the last couple of days, so I had not been around to post.

Wallace: I'm glad you won your suit. It seems that the bank would have had common sense to just credit your account rather than going to court. The big banks are very cocky that's why I try dealing with community banks. Have you gone after your wife yet for CS payments? What has been the outcome?

Avondale: Steve Harley is great. If W had been willing to work with him, our marriage could have probably survived. She did not believe in counseling. The out of control reference to the garden means that things have grown up including weeds. What happened over the weekend?

RMA: I had some melons to start growing, but they started to rot. The heat is killing my garden. The only thing that is still growing nicely is the okra. You know something melons may like very hot weather with little rain.

Me: Attorney filed a contempt order last Friday, and I told her to file for a court date. Kid had a birthday party on last Saturday. I'm glad kid owns stock in Mattel because he keeps their Hot Wheels line in business.What bothers me about wifey is that she is going around as though she has done nothing wrong. It's like she picks and chooses what to block from her mine. Amazing.

Dave: Where are you?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/26/02 11:59 AM
Wallace, congrats on your big win <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I was also wondering about your CS payments... what's your plan?

Gardening - when we had melons we put them up on milk crates (or any raised thing will do) to keep them from rotting until they were ready to pick.

Petvet - you know as well as anyone the selective memory of those who choose to have one, especially WS. Wish I could do that as easily, there are plenty of things I'd like to block out! Tell us when you know your court date.

Update for me:
I saw hubby for the first time Saturday since he went to NY in early July; he is now back in town for a while. He came over to do heavy yard work (which is great). I thought it would be difficult, seeing him and interacting but it wasn't (had ppl praying for me). I didn't do the "tough love" thing, in fact, I may back track a little based on things that Steve said during my appt. last week. Will have to see...

Anyway, hubby agreed to give Steve a call to give his opinions for the bigger picture to help Steve work on me. I was VERY surprised he agreed to and can only pray he'll follow through with the call. I'll keep ya posted.

Hope everyone has a great week!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/26/02 01:37 PM
Hello everyone!....Well my weekend went pretty good. I had to drop some remaining things of my xw's at my SFIL house, they live about 4 miles away from me. My BIL had went to FL to my OD's graduation in May and this was the first time I seen him since then and we talked a little about his fun while he was there and then the subject came up about the my marriage crash, I said I guess you saw your sisters boy toy while you were there?, he said yep, I saw it all for my myself and she definitly cheated on you and shook his head.

Hours later I was in the backyard and my now xSTepMIL and xSTepFIL asked me privately what happened in the marriage, I said to myself, Oh boy!, lights camera, action, I'm in the spotlight now, I said there were several things that played a role, but I held back and blurted out a little and just said despite any marriage problem the answer is not to go cheat and have multiple affairs and I said yes, there were many OM's, they said well when you are apart its easy to be involved with someone you know, I said No, this is while we were in the same house 2 years ago, they looked stunned and changed subjects, boy toy was too much evidence to deny it, when my BIL went there he saw OM driving xw'a car 6 days after DV, my daughers in there pajama's around OM, the guy appeared to know his way around the house, so my BIL knew the story and also my sister said the same thing who went.

Well they wanted to know, I told them a little, my BIL saw the rest for himself, I can't hide her wrong doing.

After I got home I thought what a mess because my xw who was raped by her stepF when she was 13 here I am telling him about these affairs, he and his xw my xw's real mother is deceased 5yrs ago cheated him, he's remarried now, my xw held that rape over his head for 27 years, I wondered how he felt after knowing what she did now? earlier this year I told her she's need finally resolved that issue with him and she said had a talk with him prior to that, but now I guess he was probably surprised to hear what I said.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/26/02 03:26 PM
Hi All,
Petvet...
It is amazing what these "WS's" will selectively pick and choose what they will let seep through their minds.
They can remember every rotten thing you have ever done... but when it comes to them...they pick and choose what they want to remember... be it good or bad.
They certainly try to avoid anything bad they have ever done.
Keep us updated on your "CS" situation... it ought to be interesting.
Avondale is right... you need to get those melons up off the ground or they will start to rot.
Avondale...
It appears that you may a "M" that is able to be salvaged.
Your "H" is willing to get together with the Harleys... that could be a good sign that all is not lost.
I don't think you need to be in the "Tough Love" approach right now... I would work a good Plan A, and see what transpires.
I'll say a prayer.
EC...
I'm sorry to hear about the news you got from your in-laws and "BIL".
They won't be of any help to you, so I would try to say as little as possible to them as you can.
If anything they can only hinder any progression that you and your "XW" could ever try to make.
You can only sit back and let everything run it's course, and let whatever happens happen.
Take care of yourself, and try not to let it get to you... easier said than done.
In regards to my "CS" situation.
We are letting it all add up and we are going to deduct it from the final "D" settlement.
STBXW is suppose to be paying half of the tuition for my "YD's school tuition... which of course she has not, in addition to "CS".
So that will be added into the final settlement as well.
At the rate she is going, she won't be getting much, if anything for a settlement, but I'll cross that bridge when it comes to the Judge making his decision... you never know how they are going to rule.
I've heard rumors that she quit her new job, and has had her phone shut-off, so I would say she hasn't changed a bit.
B]RMA and Dave[/B]...
How are you all doing? Hope things are going well for both of you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/27/02 05:16 AM
Hi Wallace, thanks for the advice, letting everything run its course is true, to get in the way of anything is a waste of time and energy. Its been almost 2 years now since xw has been in this mind frame I think she is starting to ware down eventhough she is still arrogant. For some reason I feel she still wants to be friends, I can't say she has said anything down that road, but it's like when a person wants to say they're sorry but to proud to say it, they may try to communicate it in another way, not saying she is sorry but she is trying to say she wants to be friends but won't come out and say it, she still has a wall up, she emails me about stuff that If I responded back it could start a friendly conversation, but I feel having a conversation with her she will think I'm accepting and approving her stand, but I refuse to give my approval......She made mention she's not communicating with me to get my approval if thats what I was thinking, hummm?

If she would ever say she was sorry and acknowledge her mistakes I could talk, until then, I keep her at a distance. I told her a week ago if she didn't treat me nice I could cut communication with her and be fine, in her eyes that meant 2-3 months again, I only talk to my 2 D's so xw learns of my progression through them, I think she see's me moving on, I remember I used to do the beg, cry and chase thing, eventhough we're divorced now I still think she wants me there for some reason, probably to flaunt OM in my face, but I'm not giving her the chance, she's a mean snake right now.

If my OD 18 was able to apologize then surely my xw is capable of the same thing, she's not stupid.

As far as the In-laws they have some twisted views on marriage, they were half drunk when they asked me so if that says anything...
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/27/02 10:31 AM
Hi all! RMA & Wallace, thanks for the gardening advice; why did not the Extension guy tell me that gardening tip? Go figure.

Wallace: Like you, my W will prpbably have all the money she owes me taken out of the final agreement. IMPORTANT POINT: I am not signing any agreement until all monies she owe me are in my hands. We have some joint debt, and I want her part before I sign anything; otherwise, many people don't pay after the agreement is signed. Based on how she is handling the CS issue, I think I am warranted.

Avondale: BE FORE WARNED: My W agreed to talk to Steve to give a total picture to help me out. After the initial meeting, she did an aboutface during one of our meetings and has not come back. Please don't read anything into it because the WS uses the meeting with Steve to rant and rave about what the BS has done wrong in their eyes.

EC: What is done in the dark always come to light. Continue to work on you and do what you have been doing.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 08/27/02 10:33 PM
Hi Everyone, I have been out of town on business this week, hope everyone is doing well.
Wallace, congrats on you win againist the bank, that is great.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/28/02 03:26 PM
Hi All,
I had a real mess going yesterday... car decided it wasn't going to run... so I had it towed over to the mechanics to have them work on it. Fuel pump went out on it and now I have to lay out a little over $600.00 to get it fixed
Also on Monday.. the Company I work for decided to just cut my salary by 25% because things are so slow here... I guess it's better than getting layed off.
I'm not happy about it and will I be looking for a new job just as soon as the "D" is final.
Had I not been involved in this "D", I would of walked out on them instead of taking the pay cut.
After the "D", I will probably start looking for a new job. Don't want to have anything interfer with my refinacing of my home and such... what a mess.
Just when you think things are starting to settle down... they get worse.
Petvet...
Unfortunately your 'W" sounds like my STBXW.
Mine has not, and does not, pay any bills.
She filed bankruptcy about 9 months ago without me even knowing about it.
Because of her past payment history and credit record, I will not be signing anything either.
I will not be transferring anything until all debts that she owes on are paid off in full.
Sounds to me like you are doing the same.
You are warranted, make no mistake about it.
EC...
Your XW appears to be trying to gain your approval... and if she can have you as a friend as well, then she gets what she wanted in spite of all she has done.
IMHO, I would keep her at a very safe distance until she acknowledges all that she has done.
You may never see that, but you don't have to be friends with her either.
I would keep your contact with her, cordial and all business... for the kids sake.
Your "XW" is like my "STBXW... she is to proud to admit to her mistakes.
There have been many mistakes that my "STBXW" has made... not that I'm perfect... I'm not.
I have made my fair share of mistakes in my "M", but nothing compares to what she has put forth in our "M".
I said in earlier posts... my STBXW has nothing to really be proud about.. in fact if anything, she should be ashamed... very ashamed.
I have not spoken to my "STBXW" in almost 5 months... and after the "D" is over and done with... I have no intentions of ever speaking with her again unless I absolutely have to.
I'm rambling and starting to vent, because this hits real close to home for me.
DAVE,
I couldn't do a bold face type on your name.
It kept throwing your name about 28 lines down the post.
Dave... thanks for the Congrats... it is appreciated.
Hope things are going well, it sounds like they are.
RMA and Avondale...
Hope things are going well for both of you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/28/02 04:11 PM
Wallace
Sorry to hear about the double whammy regarding your car and job situation. You're right, at least you weren't laid off and you're also very right about keeping the job while you're going through this financial stuff regarding divorce. I'll pray you'll be able to get something much better afterwards. What type of work are you in?
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/28/02 04:30 PM
Hi Wallace, I think she is trying to get my approval, here's a peice of an email she sent after I said she don't realize the pain she has cause me through the affairs, she's still arrogant and won't take responsibility, she wants me to shut up and let her do her thing:

Her:

I don't pretend to know what you went through but
neither do you have a clue how your "hateful" comments for the last year have affected
me and how painful they've been.

And why do you keep bringing my man into the
conversation? Here you go again. You can't get him
off of your mind now can you? Every conversation we have ends up with a discussion about him with YOU starting it. Your jealously is definitely showing.

You won't even be civil for the sake of the girls. You'd rather argue. When I legitimately try to work with you think it's an act and start up with the name calling again. You refuse to let me live my life in peace. You would rather dwell on past events and make them seem as though they are yesterdays headlines.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/28/02 06:01 PM
Hi Avondale and EC,
My line of work has been primarily involved with the pipe, valve, and fitting installation and sales end of the construction spectrum. I have been a Plumber for more years than I care to remember... but I am now offically called a Sales Executive in the above stated area.
I had my own business in the construction area for 13 years.
I closed the business down because I decided I didn't want to play banker any longer for the Companies we were doing projects for.
I then went to work for a company that supplies these items to the construction industry... bad move.
After my "D", and when the economy picks back up... I will probably reopen the doors to my business.
EC...
Your "XW" sounds to me that she has absolutely no remorse for anything that she has done... so I wouldn't expect anything positive out of her anytime soon.
In her email she states that you always bring up the "OM" to her and that you can't get over it.
If in fact this is a true statement... I would stop bringing up anything at all concerning the "OM".
IMHO, you may be only fueling the flames of their passion for each other, and driving yourself further away from her by doing this.
I would keep all contact with her on a strictly business basis only.
Keep it brief, and to the point... a modified Plan A.
I think if she sees that your interest in her and "OM" is dropping... she may adjust her attitude and way of thinking.
I would not give her approval, that only validates what she has done.
I know many people will not agree with me on this, as there has been much discussion on these boards about forgiving and accepting your "WS" in order to heal yourself but that's my feelings about it.
You can forgive her if you wish, and in your own mind you can accept what is... but that is a choice you have to make, no one else can make that decision for you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ August 28, 2002, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/29/02 05:26 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: Sorry to hear about your car and job situation. I'm expecting my car to hit the skids soon; I'm trying to save money to soften the blow. Yes, it is a good thing that you did not get laid off. If you think that you can make more money in your own business and spend more time with your kids, then go for it. Of course wait until the D mess is over.

EC: Just keep your distance from your W. Don't add more fuel to the fire. Your XW is just trying to make you jealous. Please don't let her play with your feelings. I know it is tough. Don't expect her to admit or have any regrets. You may just have to get on with your life. You have to take care of you. You deserve it.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/29/02 02:33 PM
Petvet,
Yea, this "D" has everything all messed up.
It just locks you into a state of limbo that you can't do anything about until the whole mess is behind you.
I am on the count down to the final hearing. In a way... I really can't wait to get past this.
There is probably going to be some massive changes made when this is all said and done with... as well as quite few surprised people when these changes are made.
How have you been doing?
I hope your car doesn't die out on you when you least expect it.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/31/02 10:56 PM
Hello Wallace and Petvet,

I had decided to back off and stop adding fuel to the fire, when she refers to me making "hateful" comments thats about the 'OM'. In the past I always called him a slime sewer rat for sneaking in my house and how wrong that relationship is, but she thinks differently as you see.

A few weeks ago from what my sister told me while she was there at ex house in May that this OM has dreadlocks in his hair but said it looked very dirty and nasty, so I took a potshot lastweek and told my ex...."It's a shame you're walking around with a guy that has a dirty Octopus on his head, I'm sure its full of spiders and flea's". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Well she didn't like that. She said leave her man out of it, I said ok if thats what you call a man.

Anyway I went back and regrouped my thinking and prayed and told the Lord I was sorry for giving her such a hardtime even though she never said she ever been sorry for nothing. He's fought the battle this far I need to let him continue. As I said she wants me there to talk, but what her plan is,is to be friendly with me and we can start talking often, but then in her subtle way she'll slip OM in the picture slowly by mentioning his name getting to me to accept him, gaining my approval, I know thats what she wants but I won't give in.

I do talk to my daughters but make no mention of ex, I'm sure ex is still trying to talk to them as a teenager rather than a mother with some moral values. If ex ever needed to notify of anything about my D's she has my work and home number, she don't have email me. She just knows I won't except OM over the phone because I won't listen to her, to her advantage she can try to email info about him.
I'll try not mentioning him,see what happens in the future...Thanks
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/01/02 12:10 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: I know you will be glad when this mess is all over. I know you are excited about the future.

EC: You are doing the best thing by limiting your coummunication with her. Dreadlocks? She has chosen a winner and someone she can probably control. Your kids are not around this guy, right? Please tell me no.

Me: Last night, wifey had big news for me. She does not have an attorney. Apparently, she used up all of her money in her retainer and could not replenish it. As a result, the attorney dropped her. What makes this bad timing is that my court date was going to be this month (the date I'm not sure of).My question is if she cannot pay this attorney, how is she going to pay another attorney. Since this thing is a contested D, it will cost her more than $500. As you well know, there are attorneys who advertise that they can do an uncontested D cheap. Also, she has a court date soon concerning contempt for not paying
child support. Lately, she has been very conversational. Yesterday, I attended a family get together given by her cousin. Apparently, few if any relatives know about our marital issues. I feel as though I am in a spin cycle that won't end.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/02/02 05:59 AM
Hi Y'all,
Hope you're having a good holiday weekend. I'm just trying to stay busy with all this free time...didn't realize how free time can be both a blessing and a curse, ya know?

Petvet - does the fact that your W can't afford an attorney put you in the "power seat" for legal maneuvering? Could it play in your favor at all, or will it complicate your matters even more? (I hope the former and not the latter.)
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/02/02 10:17 AM
Avondale: I think it's going to complicate matters. It does not make sense to me. If she does not have an attorney, I'm going to get accused of taking advantage of her. My big question is why would you not pay your current attorney because she will have to pay a retainer to whoever she uses and once an new attorney finds out that she lefted her old attorney due to money, they will surely want to receive their money up front. Also, why would her attorney not give her a payment plan since he has had her as a client for close to a year.It does not make sense to me. My gut feeling is that more was involve with her decision other than money. She still has not sign the temporary agreement. It just does not make sense.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/04/02 05:51 AM
Hi All,
I don't know about any of you but my Holiday weekend went by way too fast... hope all of you had a good Holiday.
Petvet...
I have to agree with you... I think it is going to complicate your "D" proceedings, especially with the "CS" contempt proceedings.
If your "W" does indeed have a new attorney, he will more than likely ask for a continuance.
The Judge may not give it to him, but there is always that possiblity.
Concerning the temporary agreement, why do you think your "W" hasn't signed it?
Do you think that she may be thinking that if she doesn't sign it, she won't be liable for anything?
Your "D" is starting to turn into one that is almost as ugly as mine is... that's a bad place to be... hopefully you can get it turned around.
Have you talked to your attorney concerning these latest developments?
If not, I would get in touch with him and see if he can't shed some light on this present situation.
EC...
Yor "XW" sounds like she picked a real winner for "her man".
We have noticed that there is a common denominator with these spouses when they take up with their new "SO"... they take about 10 steps backwards.
It is all too common, especially when they step into a relationship soon after leaving the "M" for dead.
In most cases it doesn't last and that may be one of many reasons why she wants to keep you on the back burner.
I would continue doing what your doing.
I would not validate her "OM"... let her live with what she has done.
Avondale...
I agree with you as far as having too much free time, it can indeed be a blessing or a curse.
Hopefully more of a blessing, I know what the mind can do, when it has too much free time on it's hands.
How are things going on your end?
Dave and RMA...
Hope both of you are doing well.
If you have an update let us know.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/04/02 12:10 AM
Wallace: My weekend was busy. I could not wait for the holiday to be over. Holidays are bad for me right now. Maybe in the future, I can enjoy holidays again, but not now.

Me: Wifey came over yesterday and spent nearly four hours at the house playing with kid. She made herself at home(shoes off, the whole nine yards). She told me that she had gotten a part time job. She has no intentions of paying me anything. I just want to be through with her.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/04/02 04:44 PM
Petvet,
This has got to be tough on you... with your "W" coming over and spending the day at your house and just acting like it's another day.
Does she have anything constructive to say while she is at your home?
If she didn't then I'm sure this past Holiday was rough.
As far as "CS", did she come right out and tell you she had no intentions of paying you anything?
I have a real legal mess on my hands as well... with my STBXW not showing up for any of the Court proceedings.
It is goiing to take months if not a couple of years to untangle the mess she has left... and with no cooperation from her whatsoever, who knows how this whole thing is going to shake down.
Keep talking to your attorney, I know I am.
Stay strong!
Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 09/04/02 09:41 PM
Hi everyone, i am traveling again this week so not much time to write... all this travel cannot be good on my marriage but we are doing very well. We went to look at new houses this weekend, we are considering putting our house on the market and selling it... Some of our
neighbors did not approve of what my FWS did and still do not speak to her, seems they have a harder time with this than me, she really wants to move out of our neighborhood so we are looking....
Wallace, sorry about the paycut, in my industry things are very tough too, hopefully the economy starts to pick up early next year and things get better for all of us.
EC, I know it is hard to leave the past in the past, I struggle with that too but if you can it will
free you...
Petvet, sorry that things have not improved much.. hang in there...
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 09/04/02 11:14 PM
Guys,

I have been gone for work and then on vacation. Just wanted you all to know I saw this and am thinking and praying for each of you.

RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/05/02 12:03 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: No, she does not say anything constructive that's why I don't say much to her. I am so tired of this mess. I am very frustrated and angry. I don't intend for my mess to last for years. I hope you take care of business and put an end to your mess. Our wives have no credibility.

I'M SO MAD.

Later.

PS- I hate to see you and I go through this.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 09/05/02 03:34 AM
Hi All, hope the holidays are getting better. I made a goal this year I'm going to buy 10 turkeys and pass them to selected persons or families in need this Nov. In Nov 2000 is when affairs we're happening and she announced she wanted a DV, In Nov 2001 I was just starting to work again from having to move 1,200 mile's from WW, also this Nov 2002 would have been our 19th Anv.....So I'm doing something thats going to make a strong impact for 10 families for the month of Nov and let that be my good times of memories. Despite what exw has done I know in my heart I will still love people and some person or family out there is waiting for a blessing, so the time now is to prepare, thats worth the push to keep on going, giving out of yourself releases your hurt and you feel self worth again and that you are a reward to someones life.

Petvet - Yes, OM is around my 2 D's, sad but true, I can't imagine how she can teach any morals to our teenage daughters, I wonder what they think about sleeping with a strange man from the Internet as there mother did and bring him in the house?

Davepr - I know its true to let go of the past, at times it does seems like yesterdays headlines because she never says she's sorry for nothing, just flaunts her actions even greater in my face. I decided to try not to bring OM up next time I talk to her. Do you know of any signs when your WW was coming to an end?

Wallace - I have thought about how much I want be involved with her, I've asked myself since I've let her back in communication what have I gained? Has it been a weight? or healing? I lean more to the weight right now, I do have 2 business issue to resolve with her and once those are done I no reason to really talk to her other than the Kids, but of course thats what she wants, ease her way back in is her plan, she wants cake and ice cream, she knows I made good things happen in her life and she see's that in mines now and hers have went in a diff direction, its like she's trying to keep one hand on OM and one hand on the anchor (me).

Take care all.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/05/02 08:59 PM
Hi All,
Petvet...
As far as our wives having "no credibility", I think that might be an understatment.
I understand your anger, and frustration, but try to let it pass as best you can (as hard as that may be).
It will just wear you down, and nothing good will come of it.
I don't want to sound like I'm preaching to you, just want to give you a helping hand to try to help get you out of the funk.
It will work you, if you let it.
I can only imagine what you must be feeling when she is in your house, acting the way she does.
In a sense I feel lucky that I don't have to communicate with my STBXW, I have seen all I care to see concerning her.
I'm glad to hear (under the circumstances) that your going to be able to end your situation in a timely manner... unfortunately that is not going to be the case for me I'm afraid.
I think that after the "D" is final, the real fight will only be just beginning.
RMA... thank you for your thoughts and prayers... I'm sure we can all use them.
Dave... glad to hear things are going well for you.
It appears to be a good sign that your"W" wants to move and stay committed to the "M".
I can see you are aware of how traveling so much can affect your "M"... I'm sure your keeping a close watch on that... keep up the good work.
EC... It does sound like your "W" wants to keep you around just in case the bottom falls out.
If she sees that you are truly moving on with your life, she may do a 180 on you.
I'm not sure if that is what you want, but it's an option that may possibly open up to you.
Avondale... How are things with you, and how are you getting along?
As far as myself... I'm just taking each day one day at a time.
I'm nervous about coming to the FJ day which is next month... but I'm also looking forward to it all at the same time.
I've been living like I have been "D" for quite awile now... on again off again for almost 2-1/2 years watching the antics of my WW.
So in a sense I'll be glad when the marriage is finally over.
It's to bad it had to turn out the way it did.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/08/02 11:49 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: Thanks for your encouraging comments. I spoke with my attorney last Friday after she called W's attorney's office to find out what was going on. Even though she had not spoken to w's attorney personally, she spoke with an assistant who told her that wife still was a client; however, she owed them money. My attorney was incense that wife would go out and get a part time job to pay off her attorney yet she has not met her financial obligation to me. It shows just how little respect she has for me and kid. I'm seriously thinking about speaking with her and laying it on her for her lack of responsibility for caring for her kid. I'm not going to let her off the hook. I called the court office and found out that no court date has been set for either of my cases, so who knows when I will get to court.

Avondale, RMA, and Dave, etc.: how are things going?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/08/02 12:55 PM
Hey y'all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Wallace, I can't imagine dealing with the issues you have for 2 ½ years...it is unfathomable to me! While it is indeed sad that things turned out the way they did for you, I know you'll be glad to start a new chapter in your life. Other than things with your job, do you have any specific plans?

Petvet, can't your lawyer do anything to expedite setting up a court date for you? I thought that was one of the things lawyers did.

As for me, I have found myself in a unique situation, needing to do a TOUGH LOVE ultimatum on my 22 year old son who has become totally immersed in a socio-political-idealogical (dare I use the word "extremist"?) group whose views are, to put it mildly, very alarming to both me and his father. In fact, they would be alarming to anyone who knew the extent of what he's into right now! So this afternoon WH is coming over and we will have to present a united front, and confront our son, telling him to move out. The irony in this is not missed by me - WH, who's lifestyle and moral standards have decayed and are questionable at best, telling our son - who's lifestyle standards are just as bad, what to do <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . But I am determined to not use this time to point any fingers or bring up that irony to him. Hopefully I can convey love and concern for my son while telling him to leave...
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 09/08/02 11:01 PM
Avondale,

Your son may be "acting out" due to stress of you and your H's situation. Although he is an adult, I can tell you, the young adult kids do hurt from all of this, too. That in no way condones unacceptable behavior. Tough love may indeed be exactly what he needs. Just wanted you to think about his angst and hurt, too.

Hugs to you for all you are dealing with right now.

Petvet, I am doing well. Why is this all taking so long? Just curious, as my divorce only took 31 days after official filing.

Wallace, you have such a good attitude about all of this. I hope and pray that one day soon the largest part of the hurt will be behind you.

EC, you sound pretty good yourself! Keep up your chin and keep trying to move forward.

davepr, a new home and new neighbors might help you both.

Just saying to all that someone does care...RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/09/02 10:42 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I agree with RMA that your son may be upset over the situation with his parents especially if problems have been ongoing for a while. He is probably missing the male influence even though twenty two is kinda old, buit that does not excuse his views and possibly dangerous interaction in groups that are negative.

RMA: I'm glad to hear that all is well in your life. You are not going to believe this but even after I put my melons off the ground, they still rotted. Well, so much for melons this year.

Wallace: I have to agree with everyone that your attitude is great under the circumstances. I know you just want it over.

Me: Apparently, there is a problem with the judge assign to my case. He is retiring after this year. My attorney would not complain too over the telephone, but she told me that she would fill me in when she sees me. I'm told that the court system is a mess in my county. I want to get this judge before he leaves office because he is an advantage for my case. I'm going to call the court again to find out whether they have any idea when my case will go to court.

Oh! Everyone, please take a moment or two on Wednesday to remember those who have suffered (The Deceased and their families)by the events of
9/11.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/09/02 09:17 PM
Hi All,
Petvet...
After you get done talking with your wife about how irresponsible she is and such, I would you get your attorney kicked into action.
It sounds like someone is dropping the ball here (your attorney).
What is happening on your Contempt of Court charges concerning your back "CS".
Are you still planning on adding that to your final court judgement?
You need to get a court date scheduled by the sounds of things... unless you want to slow things down.
No court date? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
IMHO that does not sound good... in addition... in most States, the other party does not need an attorney for the "D" proceedings to continue.
My STBXW does not have an attorney at this point, and we are 42 days away from the "FJ", attorney or no attorney on her part.
Just something for you to think about.
RMA and Avondale... When the "FJ" comes it will be bitter sweet I believe... and yes as hard as it is to believe... I have put up with her for a little over 2-1/2 years.
When this is over with... I can walk away from it, knowing that I tried my hardest to keep my marriage together.
The wounds are deep and I'm sure the scars of it all will linger for quite sometime, but hopefully with the Lord's help I will get through it.
I have to agree with RMA and Petvet, Avondale... that your son may be acting out due to what is currently happening in his family life.
My OS, who is 23 yrs. old, and who is now living at home... hates his mother for the things she has done... so I do know that it does have an affect on even the oldest kids.
RMA... I'm not so sure if I really have a good attitude about all this to tell you the truth.
I had a rough weekend this weekend over all of it. I had a number of triggers that went off on me.
I'm doing better today though... weekends are rough sometimes.
I do want it over... be it good, bad, or indifferent, my family and I need to move on with our lives.
I don't have any definite plans as of yet Avondale, but I do have a number of irons in the fire.
It all is going to depend on how this all shakes down... that will determine which direction I need to take.
I have another court date on 9/11 of all days.
A credit card company is suing me over $550.00 they say I owe, and I show the card was paid off in full years ago.
I have a bad feeling my STBXW may be behind this one as well.
Well I've been rambling since I started this post... it's been a busy day.
Well I hope everything goes well for everyone this weekend.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/10/02 10:38 AM
Hi all!
Wallace: I have decided to wait until I speak with my attorney before talking to wife. I called the court and they said that it is my attorney's fault that no date has been placed, so both parties are pointing fingers at each other. I think my attorney is trying to talk with w's attorney. I intend to get this mess resolved.
Are not the credit card companies going after your wife for improperly using the credit cards? She is going to have a lot of people after her when it is all said and done. I'm with you when it comes to all these mood swings. I had a bad attack last week. Hopefully, once I get this mess over with, things will be better.

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 09/10/02 11:52 AM
Petvet,

I actually have a canteloupe that "volunteered" from my compost. Rotting may be caused by a calcium deficiency. Get some liquid calcium (blossom rot)and srpay that and see if it helps.

To all,

Just a quick word of caution. I know most all of you just want your situation resolved. Trust me, I was there once, myself. Please do know that although divorce solves some problems for you, others will not go away and new ones will be "created". The divorce in itself is not a panacea for all that is ailing you right now. No matter what, you will always have a connection to your WS due to your children. And, even though you get divorced, you will still have to deal with the ex and his/her shenanigans, even if only from a periphery. They don't just wake up and become responsible, caring, mature or fair players.

Just keep to your plan and do the only things you can do - try to become the best person you can be for yourself and for humankind. Pray - really pray - and ask God to eventually lead you to a better life - one filled with love, peace and happiness. Focus on your family and friends. In the midst of all of our hurt and angst, we tend to forget that only one part of our life is in disarray - the marriage. Yet, there are a host of family, friends and co-workers, etc. that love and care about us - people we can depend upon to be there for us. Each of us has a life that is filled with many blessings, and we tend to overlook those while we concentrate on the pain. As you are able to, focus more and more on your blessings and it will help you to move away from the pain.

My heart goes out to each of you. I WAS you just a few short years ago. The pain has a way of making you feel as if your life is worthless and maybe even you, too. But, guys and gals, we who have survived can tell you that it isn't so. Life is worth living and YOU are someone very SPECIAL! RESOLVE to live a better life, and in time, it WILL come to you!!!!

May God send a special blessing to each and everyone of us here......RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/10/02 06:15 PM
Hi All,
Petvet...
I think that it might be a good idea to talk to your attorney first, before you have anymore continued conversations with your "W".
I believe that if you allow this to linger for too long without any movement in any direction whatsoever... I believe it will fester like an old wound and you will only end up aggrevating yourself even more.
I understand about the mood swings... this whole ordeal really works you, make no mistake about it.
It will probably get worse before it gets better as far as the mood swings go... at least in my case it seems to be the case.
I'm getting more triggers the closer I get to my "FJ", which of course causes my mood to swing to a much sadder frame of mind.
RMA...
Thank you so much for your very wise words of wisdom.
Your words are so true, and even though I am not quite there yet... I know in my heart and soul that the divorce will not be the cure all to end all.
In fact in my case, I believe it will only be the beginning of many issues that will still need to be resolved.
I agree that praying to the Lord like you have never prayed before will help get you through whatever path the Lord decides to take you down.
I hope your pain has diminished as time has gone on as well RMA. I stumbled across some of your old posts and I know that you have been where we are now.
It is always very comforting to hear from you, as I know you felt the very same pain as we are experiencing... and you have dealt with it as well.
May the Lord bless you always as well as all of us here.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/16/02 09:41 AM
Hi all! I hope things are going well for everyone.

Last evening, I called myself trying to discuss some simple business with my W regarding kid. Well, what was intended as something simple resulted in an accusatory tyraid from W. I was not arguing with her or anything. She was upset with me. She said that I was unChristian, trying to get back at her because she lefted me, trying to get rich off her, causing her mental unrest, trying to drive her out of her apartment,etc. She said that she has no money for attorneys nor child support. She said that she should have thrown me out of the house. She said that the reason she lefted kid with me was that she could not afford to take care of her and him on her
own. She said that she would have gone for custody but she did not have the money. After the initial conversation, I tried to call her back to explain to her that the support is for the kid not me and it was her responsibilty to help care for her child, but she would not answer the phone after two attempts, so I just lefted a message. I am calling my attorney today to finalize a court
date, so this mess can be over. The bottom line is that W was against me before moving out and after.

Later.
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 09/16/02 02:24 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Petvet:
<strong>Hi all! I hope things are going well for everyone.

Last evening, I called myself trying to discuss some simple business with my W regarding kid. Well, what was intended as something simple resulted in an accusatory tyraid from W. I was not arguing with her or anything. She was upset with me. She said that I was unChristian, trying to get back at her because she lefted me, trying to get rich off her, causing her mental unrest, trying to drive her out of her apartment,etc. She said that she has no money for attorneys nor child support. She said that she should have thrown me out of the house. She said that the reason she lefted kid with me was that she could not afford to take care of her and him on her
own. She said that she would have gone for custody but she did not have the money. After the initial conversation, I tried to call her back to explain to her that the support is for the kid not me and it was her responsibilty to help care for her child, but she would not answer the phone after two attempts, so I just lefted a message. I am calling my attorney today to finalize a court
date, so this mess can be over. The bottom line is that W was against me before moving out and after.

Later.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Petvet.

It's a desperate attempt by her to use guilt as a weapon against you. She is still in denial of all the damage SHE has caused and is trying to get off easy by trying to make you feel bad for enforcing what is the just and right responsability of both parents to support the child(ren) they bring on to this world.

I would humbly suggest to you that the next time she calls you to chew you out, you promptly hang up on her. In time she will realize that her manipulative childish tirades will gain her nothing from you. She'll, hopefully, realize that the only way she'll get anything from you is thru reasonable and adult dialog.

Your doing grea, stay the course.

<small>[ September 16, 2002, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: TooMuchCoffeeMan ]</small>
Posted By: RWD Re: Tough Love - 09/16/02 02:52 PM
PetVet,
My x did the same, she said she left the kids with me because my schedule is flexible. It is because I make it that way.

Since om is out of the picture, she wants more time. Once in a while she mentions having the kids live with her but there has been no movement that way.

She works 12 hr shifts 3-4 days per week so would be gone most of the time anyhow. She gripes about the child support too, even though it was based on her working part time back in 1998. She now works full time and can work any amount of over time she wants.

HAng in, do what you have to do for yourself and your kids!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/16/02 02:52 PM
Hi All,
Petvet...
It appears that your "W" is starting to feel the ramifications from her actions and she is not pleased with the scenerio she has created... therefore it's all your fault.
Don't buy into her rhetoric, she should of thought about the possible long term effects and outcome due to her actions... but like so many "WS's", they leave any rational way of thinking laying in the dirt.
I would notify your attorney that you would like to move forward with the "FJ" court date and let it get sorted out there.
I wouldn't even discuss "CS" issues with her anymore... let the courts deal with it.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/17/02 05:32 AM
Petvet,
Sorry you had to go through that (again). Sounds like you handled it well by not reacting to her! Just let her tirades roll off your back, and look ahead to better times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
BTW, I have wondered for a long time now, are you a veterinarian? (I know it's off subject but figured I'd ask anyway, lol)
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 09/16/02 11:37 PM
Petvet,

She is whining because the negative consequences are starting to stare her in the face. Too bad for her! Your son is better off with you because you have a proven track record of stability and dependability. Her motives are driven right now off what's "best" for her, and not what's best for the family. You are a good man and a great Dad! I pray that this big fine mess will be resolved soon. You need some peace in your life!

To all, you guys are the greatest! You all give such great encouragement and sound advise.

God bless us all, RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/17/02 05:56 AM
Thanks all for your wonderful comments. Yes, wifey is very upset and bitter at me. Believe it or not, I was just pecking away at the computer writing a letter to wifey to see whether she wanted us to visit her pastor for one last marriagesaving session. In the letter, I told her that either we reconcile or its DIVORCEVILLE.My mom wanted me to give it one more shot because she thinks it will help the kid if we could get out marriage back on track, but I do not think W is going to act right. After reading your comments, I removed the letter from the envelope and filed it. She is scary because I sense a great air of EVIL from her. She hates that I am holding the cards. She has bad intentions for me. My attorney's legal asst. told me that she hopes to have a court date for me by the end of the week. My attorney spoke with her attorney and I get the impression that my w is not on good terms with her attorney.So Wallace, next month may be D Day for both of us.

Avondale: I laugh at your question because RMA asked me the same thing. I wanted to be a vet, but those upper level science classes in college did me in; however, I breed and show Alaskan Malamutes in conformation (Westminster for example). As a matter of fact, W was jealous of the dogs and birds. I've love animals since I was four or five. I have had taurantuas, lizards,
birds, ants(yes! ants including the queen), dogs, and tropical fish. Don't get me wrong. I do not have a house or yard full of pets. It's a hobby.
How's your situation?

Oh! For the people who have been divorced, we did you do with old pictures etc. of your and your ex? I hate to say this but I am feeling really funny wearing my wedding band knowing that my w wishes that I would drop dead. Also, my mom was concern that if I died that my w would get all of my insurance etc. How did you'll handle this?

Later.
Posted By: ezra Re: Tough Love - 09/17/02 06:32 AM
Petvet;
You must seriously consider breeding horses! I love it! The foals are so sweet yet spunky. The mares are like my sisters-the studs....they are a handful. Ever thought about getting into horses?? It can change your life!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/17/02 06:52 PM
Hi All,
Petvet...
If you sent the letter to try to reconcile with your "W" do you think it would do any good?
Your "W" sounds so much like mine... it's scary.
My STBXW carries a sense of evil around with her as well.
You can see it, as well as feel the evil she has within her... and I haven't seen or talked to her in 5 months... so I can only imagine what she is like now.
As fas as pictures, etc, I'll tell you what I did with our pictures and such.
I gave most of our family pictures to my children, so they have them now.
I kept maybe 3 or 4 pictures with just myself and her in them, and I have a few of the family all together that I tucked away.
I'm keeping them in a large dresser that I have. Any that were on display in our house have been removed.
In fact any personal effects that she owns and did not take have been removed, and are being kept in storage.
Don't need or want the triggers, so they have all been removed.
I took my wedding band off on April the 19th of this year (the day she left). I knew it was over, and I didn't want to be reminded of what was. I had two, she stole and sold one when she left, and the original one I was married in I still have. I keep it in a special place in my bedroom.
As far as life insurance is concerned, she was removed and my children were put in her place as far as being on the insurance
In fact the only insurance she still has covering her that I'm paying for is medical insurance... all others have been removed.
Well I hope you can possibly figure a way to possibly get back with your "W" if you really want to... it sounds as though you may... I see nothing wrong with it, if you think you can make it work.
I just don't want you to end up feeling more pain in the process.
When this first went down with me, I wanted to try to reconcile, but as the time past, I knew that it was something that most likely could never be... I don't think I could stand the pain of it all over again.
As always, you have had some very good advice from everybody concerning this last incident with your "W"... I think we are all on the same page as far as what is going on.
I say prayers all the time asking the Lord to lead us in the direction that he so chooses.
Hopefully it will be a path that we can all find true happiness.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 09/17/02 07:54 PM
Hello Petvet and everyone,

To give a response about the picture issue. I kept pictures that involved our family even if she was in it, she was a good woman back then and I can't deny it, so the pictures are ok with me I just keep them tucked away.

If she had the pictures in her hand she would pitch them in the trash even if the kids were in them along with me. Therefore I made a point to keep them and cherish them for the kids sake, they need memories of where they came from and there fun childhood before all the mess.

I'm currently dealing with a problem that just occured today. I mailed exw's pictures of herself and her own family, father, deceased mother, brothers, yearbooks, sacred items, highschool items, her baby pictures, etc......I did this 3 weeks ago only to find out today she has not gotten them yet and the post office so far has no record of the shipping reciept I have to perform a trace. As you know in August my storage unit was broken into and they stole her mothers belongings and now I just mailed everything wife had left (pictures)I had at the house which now may be gone, I hope not though. I can't believe this?......

I told her I was grieved over this and would do all I could. I have to go to the main post office downtown and see what they can do from there. At this point I could cheer and say goodie for her this what she gets, but those items meant a lot too me also refering to the highschool stuff. Even though I insured the box the money can never buy or replace what she had......For some reason I scanned and took pictures of some of the pictures and items thinking the what if lost? at least she'll have that. I hope she gets them despite what she's done over time. When she emailed me asking where they were stating no site of them, I tried to focus on the issue and didn't bring up OM. She thanked me for being concerned with her in the matter.

Her response:

"Thank you. It's nice to know that you share my
concern".

End....

If these pictures and things are lost I'm sure this will shake her even more. Also in her email she stated YD was strongly considering coming here for Thanksgiving, thats all I need is for YD get in my environment one time and her eyes will open to whats normal and she'll reconnect to how things should be...in the positive!!

Anyway what you do with the pictures is based on what you can handle...It takes time..don't pitch anything too soon give yourself time to heal I find pictures that once were painful to look at now turning into joy, you remember the good and not the bad. Sometimes I ask myself what will I do with the pictures that have her in it if I should ever get remarried? Only time will tell...I think a new wife would respect my pictures knowing thats part of my history and thats what I have to share with my kids and I think I would do the same for her also.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 09/18/02 12:58 AM
EC,

You are such a kind and thoughtful person to think of her by insuring the box of momentoes and scanning some of the pics before mailing them. Acts of kindness are never for naught! And, I agree that any decent new woman will respect your previous family pics.

Petvet,

Keep the pics for your son. He will want them, as you two are still and will always be his parents. Now, this is interesting....you were writing a letter to your W about "one more try"? Petvet, although you are really angry and hurt, in your heart of hearts, I believe this is what you truly desire. If for nothing else, as your Mom thinks, for the best interests of your son. Listen, if you really don't want the divorce, just don't get it. Go for the legal separation of property and custody and a legal separation if that is allowed in GA. I don't know. I do think you should get divorced because you can see yourself as better off divorced than being married. I just want you to be as sure as you can be that this is the right thing for YOU. I don't mean for you to enable her in any way....I am just thinking about you. Do what you need and want to do for you and your son, and if divorce isn't it, then don't do it. If you really want to, it isn't too late to ask her for one more try. At this point, all she can say is "no", and that answer right now is "no" if you don't ask.

Prayers and hugs to you, Desiree
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/18/02 12:53 PM
Hi all!

Ezra: OOOOOOOOOOOO no! I'm staying away from horses. As a matter of fact, I know several people who are now into dogs who use to be into horses. Dealing with 85-100lb dogs is enough for me, but thanks for the recommendation anyway. What breed of horses are you into?

Wallace: Thank you thank you thank you for your advice. No, I was only writing the letter to see whether she would look into reconciling by going through counseling with her pastor. After I thought about it,it's best that she makes the move on her own. I cannot go through her mess anymore. I cannot get hurt again.

EC: You deserve a gold medal for your compassion and God driven forgiveness towards your wife.

RMA: Yes, I want a divorce because I do not see any change from my wife that I think will be beneficial to our family. She is in a mess.The only way I would do a legal separation is if she was working on the marriage, but she is not.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/18/02 03:12 PM
Petvet...
As hard as it is... and I know it's not the path or outcome that you had hoped for... you come to a point where you just have to let go.
I understand your position I believe.
In order to have a true reconciliation of your marriage, your "W" has to want it as bad as you do. Otherwise you are destined to repeat the past.
Without the desire or initative from your "W" to put forth the effort to try to make the "M" work, and take the initial steps toward recovery, you don't see any use in trying to save the "M".
I don't know for sure if that's what your thinking is on this, but if it is... I understand why you are doing exactly what you are doing.
I call it the, "no option, option".
Unfortunately, many of us are left with the "no option, option".
As RMA stated, you may want to just go for the "LS" rather than the "D", if there is any doubt in your mind.
It's a horrible burden to be undertaking, and I'm sure there is some hesitation and doubt there, but I know you will follow the path you feel is best for you and your child.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ September 18, 2002, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/18/02 10:44 PM
Hey y'all,
I remember when I first posted on this thread, I think someone was talking about anniversaries and whether or not to recognize them during separation. Well, today is mine, would be #26...I did what I planned which was to send a "Thinking of you" type of non-mushy card to H at his apartment address. Who knows, it may be my last opportunity to remind him in a non-threatening way that we're married. To my surprise, he sent me an email at 7:30 AM (didn't know he ever got up that early!) saying basically the same sentiments: "realized what day it was, sorry for hurting me, thought of me today and hoped I didn't hate him, etc." Funny how a couple can be on the same page on some days and in entirely different chapters on other days! But today has been a good, positive day for me and I'm going to be with friends this evening. So all in all, I'm not mopey or anything. Catch ya later!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/19/02 11:01 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: You are correct. It's the "no option, option". You are in the same situation. I really hate it for my kid.

Avondale: It was me who had the anniversary when you started on the thread. At least your hisband acknowledge the anniversary. There may be hope for your marriage.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/19/02 04:17 PM
Petvet,
Unfortunately, we are both in the same situation.
It is hard on the kids, I know... but it has been hard on us as well... it has been no picnic.
In 33 days I will be "D"... and yes I am counting the days.
Not because I'm looking forward to it... because I'm actually dreading that day... but I know that it is something that must be done.
When we are put into the "No Option-Option" there is little you can do.
In time, I'm sure the realization of what has happened will eventually hit our WWs.
I don't know about you, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 09/20/02 03:44 AM
Hello everyone,

Thanks for all the compliments.

Well my exw called me in her excitement on the issue that the box of pictures and stuff that was lost in the mail showed up today after 3 weeks. I was happy for her too. I spoke to her for about 20 min. This is the first time I spoke to her personally on the phone since April felt kinda ackward at first like a stranger or some old familar voice from the past. We've only communicated by email. She was defensive at the start until I said I'm not making war with you and told her I know what happened to me but its time to stop going around the same hurt and pain and move on, Her Response: "Well you gotta do what you need to sometimes"....of course I'm not surprised she said that you'd think she'd would have said words in the area of apology but hey they're innocent and thats asking too much.

As the conversation went on I asked her , why are you so defensive and sound angry? Her response: I'm frustrated because I ordered a PC through this guy and for 2 weeks he ignored me and now he just responded and lots of projects at work. Well me knowing her I'm sure her and OM are having problems, she didn't sound relaxed and happy at all, I know her work frustration verses other strains, she didn't have that happy go lucky sound as in the past, she still sounded arrogant and unrepented...I didn't bring up OM issue.

When I was talking to her I made a point to sound like mr nice guy and made her trip over her anger and defense, she had to come down to my level and be nice, I made her show herself that she was all bent up and tense, ready to fire back, but I disarmed her, I think she was surprised I didn't say anything negative.

I had to discuss some business stuff with her on signing papers and mailing stuff to me, she sounded eager to help.I asked her where she worked she wouldn't say therefore the sherriff dept will have to search her out to serve her CS modification papers, she's dreading me knowing how less she makes now, she's not high on the hog as before when she flaunted her income in my face before she left. I know she's being humbled.

Before I got off the phone there was a silence like she was waiting for me to say a sweet word , like I love you or something like I used to, but I didn't because I don't love her that way anymore, I feel I would have done damage to myself or something, I only said, I'm here if you need me, she said ok then there was a delay before hanging up....I'm sure was puzzled.

After I thought about it saying that might have made just as strong as a impact as I love you because she's trying keep the door open with me security and hang onto OM...

Now that we've been apart approaching 2 years and divorce final in May. I think I'm at the point I'm ready to face OM if I have to knowing both of them are walking in total ignorance of what a relationship is suppose to produce longterm, I know its not going to last I see him as a temporary fix to her lifelong problem, she never worked at our marriage when things went wrong she'll repeat the same thing with the next guy because she never studied what she did wrong in our marriage and she's carrying lots of baggage still...

How does a woman go to another healthy relationship if she left her marriage out of multiple affairs and while still married the OM tells the husband (me), "OH your wife belongs to me now and you messed up? I don't know the answer but I guess oneday I'll find out in our case.

I'm trying to keep my distance and not get wounded again, she's still dangerous and unstable. I still think she is a snake with removable fang caps.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/20/02 04:39 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: I know how you feel. I am looking forward to moving on. I am exhausted of this stuff with W. I know you are as well.

EC: Don't mess around and get hurt again. She is unpredictable.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/20/02 12:13 PM
EC,
Sounds like you handled yourself perfectly on the phone with your ex. You're right, not saying anything at the end of the conversation probably had MORE impact than anything you could have said, which is she probably expected. And it seems you've been able to move on fairly well, not letting her trigger any negative responses from you. You're living up to your screen name here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/20/02 03:32 PM
Hi All,
Petvet...
It does take it's toll on you... I know.
I'm hoping that once it is over, I feel some sense of relief.
There is quite a bit hanging out there from a legal standpoint, which I believe is going to take a very long time to clear up... and with the STBXW hiding out (Police are now looking for her over the forged checks), it doesn't make life any easier.
EC...
I think you did an excellent job with the way you handled yourself during your telephone conversation with your "XW".
I'm sure it did feel weird talking with her after so long.
I have had no contact with my STBX for 5 months and counting so I can only imagine how you felt.
IMHO, I don't think that your "X" is going into a healthy relationship... in fact it can only be anything but.
Add all the baggage she brings with her to the relationship, as well as the "OM's" baggage... and you have failure written all over it.
If "WSs" don't work on the issues that they contributed to the break-up of their previous "M"... then they are destined to repeat the same cycle again, and again, and again.
That's why there is such a high failure rate in relationships such as this.
Keep doing what your doing by taking the high road... it will indeed make you a better person.
Keep up the good work!
Avondale...
How are things going on your end?
I hope you are doing well.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 09/21/02 02:01 PM
EC,

You are great, and your "name" suits you to a tee!
Like many WS's, I do agree she would probably be happy to know you would still be pining away for her, and make a great "backup" plan if things don't work out with this OM. I am glad she got the box, and you did some great Plan A stuff in the conversation, too. But, stay away from her. Plan B, only. I fear she could draw you back in to provide some of her EN's. She needs to get them all.....including friendship....elsewhere. That is the only way their relationship can stand on its own merit, and Plan B is what will allow you to move on in the healthiest and fullest sense.

Take care, RMA
Posted By: DJ T-Bird Re: Tough Love - 09/22/02 12:49 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Petvet:
<strong> Oh! For the people who have been divorced, we did you do with old pictures etc. of your and your ex? I hate to say this but I am feeling really funny wearing my wedding band knowing that my w wishes that I would drop dead. Also, my mom was concern that if I died that my w would get all of my insurance etc. How did you'll handle this? Later.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Y'all ready for this? I moved out on April 1st 1998. I walked up to the Pawn Shop and sold my Wedding Band 3 days later. I kept our old Family Camcorder videos - it does a body good to see just how 'hellish' my former life with her was - it's theraputic, actually, to see her walking around in the videos: in a few of them she's snapping at the kids, or yelling at me, etc. - to see how every single thing in our lives revolved around WHAT SHE WANTED - it gives you an attitude of REAL THANKFULNESS that I don't have to live with her abuse any longer! The one remaining Family Photo with her and the kids in it? Oh, I burned that last year, sort of a 'final release ceremony' - and it was with a feeling of PEACE I watched the flames consume the one and only picture she was 'nice' enough to let me have after I moved out. (She kept every single picture - including my Baby Book my Mom gave me, and pictures I had taken of scenic nature years before I met her - somehow they 'became' her Property after I walked out of her Life...
"Life's Been Good" - Joe Walsh, late '70s
Harold <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: DJ T-Bird Re: Tough Love - 09/22/02 12:56 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by DJ T-Bird:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Petvet:
[qb] qb]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Y'all ready for this? I moved out on April 1st 1998. I walked up to the Pawn Shop and sold my Wedding Band 3 days later. I kept our old Family Camcorder videos - it does a body good to see just how 'hellish' my former life with her was - it's theraputic, actually, to see her walking around in the videos: in a few of them she's snapping at the kids, or yelling at me, etc. - to see how every single thing in our lives revolved around WHAT SHE WANTED - it gives you an attitude of REAL THANKFULNESS that I don't have to live with her abuse any longer! The one remaining Family Photo with her and the kids in it? Oh, I burned that last year, sort of a 'final release ceremony' - and it was with a feeling of PEACE I watched the flames consume the one and only picture she was 'nice' enough to let me have after I moved out. (She kept every single picture - including my Baby Book my Mom gave me, and pictures I had taken of scenic nature years before I met her - somehow they 'became' her Property after I walked out of her Life...
"Life's Been Good" - Joe Walsh, late '70s
Harold <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh yeah, almost forgot: when I was discharged from the Army on Disability in April '98, I had her on my Life Insurance for the max - $250K - but her only remark regarding that was, "Well, Harold, with MY luck, you'll die the day after the Policy expires." (My Army Policy remained effective for exactly 4 months after I left the Army). Well, her kind thoughtful remark made me more determined than ever that - if for nothing else - I WAS going to live at least until the day AFTER my Policy expired!
Ha! I'm still alive and kicking!!!
LOL, Harold
(from an email joke: "Live well, it's your best Revenge.")
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/23/02 05:44 AM
Hi all!

DJ: Thanks for your comments. I hear you loud and clear.

I took off my ring last Tuesday and put it away in a safe place. It took me a long time to get to that point. I guess it was my way of letting go. The future is ahead. I also will be receiving change of beneficiary forms from several insurance companies, so I can remove her from my life policies. I will never forget when my W told my father in law that I did not have any life insurance to provide for my family when I died. Back then as now, she tried her best to make me look so bad to everyone.So until the forms show up, I look both ways four or five times before I cross the street, and I am driving very slow on the roads. I'm trying to defy death at least until my W is off the policies.

Avondale: What's up with you?

Oh guys! Are we missing someone from the thread lately? Come on Wallace, RMA, EC,and Avondale, help me out. Is it Dave? All I know is someone is missing.

Wallace: I hate to say this; please don't get angry. Can we classify your w as a criminal? I mean if the police and probably the banks are looking for her; that's probably why you have not heard from her? Watch out! When she gets caught, she will be calling. Check this out, I just read in the Wall Street Journal where the former CEO of Tyco had to get his ex-w to post a 10 mil bond to get him out of jail because his assets had been frozen. He divorced her in 2000 and is already remarried. His attorney told the press that his ex fully supports him; RIGHT. I bet he is paying interest on that money. I think your w will be calling unless her mom gets her out of jail on bond. What do you think about imagination?

RMA: How are things in your world? Is HE still around?

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 09/23/02 01:44 PM
Hello Petvet,

Well my weekend was productive, still trying to shut doors and paper issues between exw and me, I mailed some stuff off to her to sign.

I remember having to remove my W off my policy after the divorce was final, by law I couldn't do it until then. Eventhough I removed her and she is living it still felt like someone died anyway...

I remember when the multiple affairs were first discovered and it took its toll on me I lost my well paying job, I had no money at all, no health or life insurance, at that time I didn't know what WW was totally up to, at that time I would wonder if she had a secret policy on me from her job, I had these crazy thoughts that her and OM's was going to bump me off, poison me, or throw me in the river somewhere and collect the cash, so I was starting to watch over my shoulder sometimes, sleeping with one eye open on her, one eye shut, cooked my own food. At that time there was a actual live murder case on Court TV about a woman and her email lover that killed her husband so her and OM could be together and collect the cash and the same conversations my wife was having with OM in an email was similar in 2000, so I said wow this is real, my WW didn't discuss murder for hire but how they wanted to be together, her in Dec 2001 when I called my wife's cellphone one of her OM answered and said he was going to come kill me himself or send someone to do it said he knew people in the city where I lived, she laughed and applauded him....At that point I cut total contact with WW, I said she's history, I told her to stay as far away from me as east is from the west....

After 2 months of no contact she made contact with me to sign Dv papers and said she cried in anguish over the incident about what OM did??

So I opened the door back to her just a crack at that time....as you see today she still braggs about OM..

Some would probably ask why do I give her the time of day?...I believe my wife is held hostage by an evil force and its not the real her. I believe OM is a evil messenger of that evil force that invaded my home...Like many I think she may come loose from it. I believe she followed and illusion that steals and destroys your most inner self.

There's a new person that posted named Hopeful_Person, she has a good story of before and after...Thats what most BS would like to see, when they come out of the illusion, I really applaude her and pray she recover.

Anyway Dave is (MIA) missing in action...

Take Care Everyone....
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 09/23/02 04:29 PM
Hi everyone, I just got back from an 8 day business trip, not too much fun.. I have not read all of the posts since I was gone but I hope everyone is doing fine. We had MC this morning, things are still going well, it was my D fourth birthday this weekend so we had the party on
Saturday. Last year I missed both my S and D "official" B-days as I wouldn't go with OM in the picture but I did have my own parties, boy, alot can change in a year. No contact with OM in over 3 months now, I still worry about the day they run into each other.... My D is experiencing some seperation/behaviour problems now, we talked to our MC this morning about it, she gave us a recommendation of a child specialist, guess we will be dealing with the aftermat of the A for years to come.

I will try to catch up with all of the posts when I can get dig myself out of the hole from being out of the office.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/24/02 05:45 AM
Hi All,
You know something... I think it was Dave, and there he is.
I was going to ask, where has Dave been? But, you already beat me to the punch.
Hi Dave... good to hear from you.
It appears that you have a good handle on the healing process that both you and your family are going to have to undertake... it won't be a walk in the Park I,m sure... but I think you are up to the task.
EC... I don't know if your a believer... but if you are, I would pray for your ex... I beleive that all "WSs" have allowed Satan to take charge of their life. They get caught up in the evil that surrounds them in that point of their life... and it's a tough chain to break away from.
Speaking of that... I have a question for everyone.
I think I already know the answer, but I'm going to ask it anyway.
This weekend I was asked out for a date this coming weekend.
Should I go, or decline the invitation?
One part of me wants to say yes (I don't plan on getting serious with her and she knows my situation, I told her that she is just a friend) and another part of me tells me to decline (too soon to start dating again, even as friends).
I need some opinions on this one.
Hope all of you had a good weekend, and hope everybody has a good week.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 09/23/02 07:35 PM
Hi Wallace thanks for the advice, I am a christian......

On the date issue? I know your final dv date is less than 30 days away and I think you said you and your WW have been apart for 3 years now?

There's nothing wrong with having a female friend, but for starters, I would go to lunch for now, keep it daylight stuff for now and keep the conversations generic just like if you took a female co-worker to lunch its innocent stuff, night time stuff can produce a romantic thing and if its somebody you wouldn't want to befriend longterm at least you can walk away without feeling any emotional obligation or anything.

Ok funny story:

Two months ago my sister introduced me to a friend of hers I never meet, we spoke on the phone for short time and went to lunch a few days later, I wouldn't take her to dinner, my preference, I'm trying to stay free. I told her upfront I'm not interested in any relationship, I said a woman would get in my way right now and it would be a emotional weight, she said she wasn't ready for any relationship as well, I said great!.

Well I saw her for about 1 hour on my lunch break and after that I never heard from her again.

I left her a message and said thanks for the lunch time thinking I did or said something wrong.

Well 3 weeks after that she tells my sister, she cut contact with me because, she said she could easily fall in love me and jump my bones and cause me the pain of sex before marriage issue.

I was shocked?!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> After what WW did to me, I thought I looked like the Grinch or some hunchback man with one eye in the center of his head walking with a stick for a cane, feet turned outward.

So as you see women can't always trust themselves sometimes it's not always the man doing the chasing or provoking, I said nothing, but more than anything just keep conversations generic for now. The biggest mistake you can make is jumping at the first thing that comes your way, we're not as ugly as the WS's make us feel.

Before we meet I told her a little of what happen in my DV over the phone but didn't open the door for any sympathy, my preference is to cry unto the Lord and not to some woman. I wanted her to know I wasn't some woman beater, playboy or something and why I was Dv'd. After she listen she said oh!, you still need to heal, you have a lot of hurt and anger still, I said yep, thats right I'm still healing and its a process, dropped the subject done deal, talked about other generic stuff, went to first lunch days later, nothing gained nothing lost.

Take care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/23/02 10:08 PM
Hi EC...
Your story had me laughing all the way through... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
That was good.
I know what you are talking about as far as feeling like some Frankenstein, or some freak of nature, when the WW starts giving you the business for the "OM".
It is nice to know that even though you may feel like you look like the "Grinch", someone is there to remind you, that you don't look or act like him... it helps.
I have known this person for quite some time, and I only have viewed her as a good friend.
She knows what I have been through, and she knows the pain and hurt that it has brought to myself and my children.
I am not ready to get into another relationship... not right now.
I think she knows that, at least I hope she knows that.
I may just wait until after the "D" is final... because I think she wants to go out for dinner, and I know what you are saying as far as keeping it innocent.
Thanks for the advice EC.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/23/02 10:20 PM
Wow Wallace,
We all know that you're a great guy. I'm sure it made you feel so validated just to be asked about going out! She is seeing all the great things your XW was too deaf/dumb/blind to see. Three years is a long time - you've got a lot of patience. Are you ready for a "friendly date" now? My opinion is to go with EC's suggestion - daytime lunch thing would be fine for all the reasons he gave against nighttime. And keep things generic. But only if you're comfortable with that idea. You're the only one who really knows.

EC - that is a great story! And you're right, I admit it as a female, we think and feel the same things about members of the opposite sex that guys do. Divorces and separations can really take a toll on self-esteem. We all need to remember that what our WS have said is not always the truth. Especially things said in the heat of arguments or during foggy times.

So now I'll look forward to reading all about the "first date" stories from the Tough Love Crew, LOL. Ya'll are awesome!
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 09/24/02 12:58 AM
Petvet,

Well, that is quite significant for you - taking off your ring. I know how much your heart hurts and how lonely you feel right now. For that, I am truly sorry. Just know that I care about you and your son's feelings.

You asked about "him". I am not sure which him, but my "boyfriend" (I hate using that term, at my ripe old age!) is doing fine.

davepr,

Well, you have alot of fun stuff to look forward to with the upcoming BD's. Sorry about the behavioral issues, but, hey, the kids get hurt, too. There has been alot they probably haven't understood, and I am sure fear of her leaving again is just underneath the surface.

avondale,

Any "new" news with you and your H? How are you doing in the depre4ssion department? You seem to be coping pretty well, all things considered.

Wallace,

You will be out on dates and enjoying yourself soon. It will really perk you up to get some well-deserved female attention. Just keep your guartd, too, as you are at your most vulnerable for falling "too quick-toofast", if you know what I mean. MY personal opinion is that lunch at this point would be fine. After all, you are just getting to know this person, right? But, you also need to do what makes YOU feel best about yourself and your circumstances.

EC,

Wow! That lady thinks alot of YOU! Hey, that is no surprise. Listen, I think alot of us here. There is something admirable and remarkable about a person overcoming what we have. You art smart to only slightly open the door to your exW. I worry she could emotionally drag you in to provide emotional support for her new life, and its' ensuing consequences.

To all, keep the faith! There are so many people praying and pulloing for you!

RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/24/02 10:54 AM
Hi all!

Wow! EC & Wallace, go on with your bad selves. Just kidding. Seriously though, Wallace, I would start out with just phone conversation first. We need to be careful not to use these folks as rebound material. I know there is nothing like the attention of the opposite sex, but we especially need to be careful. I was told by a women the other day that men like us are hot property because we are good men especially to to be hea of households for our kids. Keep in mind that you need to be very picky, and remember that our kids must stay our top priority. Telephone, telephone, telephone for now. That's my recommendation. EC, WATCH OUT! Go slow too.

Dave: Glad to hear evrything is still going well.

RMA: I meant your male friend. Sorry for not not being clear.

Avondale: What's up with H?

Me: I have been asked several times recently whether I am still married or married. I just want good conversation with good people right now. No more no less.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/24/02 03:51 PM
Hi All,
Petvet...
I wanted to hopefully add to what RMA brought up as far as you taking off your wedding band and putting it away in a safe place.
When I took mine off, I knew it was for the last time. It was one of the most gut wrenching feelings I had ever experienced... it felt like I had lost a part of my body.
I know the pain and sorrow had to have been there for you as well, as it is one of the most difficult parts of beginning to detach there is... at least it was for me.
I still feel somewhat naked without it.
It is a very emotional step to take, and we are here for you as you move foward.
Thank you all... RMA, Petvet, EC, and Avondale for all of your insight and advice as to this dating thing.
I'm not sure if I want to become involved with any type of a relationship right now... I still have quite a bit on my plate to deal with.
It's kind of hard to avoid her and not see her in person, as she is in one of my classes that I attend on the weekend that is associated with the Church I attend.
So if I do anything, it will be just a lunch as friends type of thing (I didn't want to use the word affair... it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I do).
I also wanted to add a little time line clarification.
My STBXW and I have been legally separated off and on for almost 3 yrs. with numerous attempts to reconcile... which would put things on hold of course during those attempts to reconcile.
In October of last year, I finally filed for "D", after she walked out in October.
She came back about 10 days before Christmas, with one last attempt to try put our marriage back together again (the "D" was still rolling).
On April 19th of this year... she walked out the door and have not heard from her since.
Hopefully that puts the timeline into perspective.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ September 24, 2002, 10:54 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 09/24/02 11:16 PM
Hi, I posted this on the GQII board,any comments?
Thanks Dave

We have been in recovery for several months now, things have been going very well...
Yesteday I found out that something happened between my FWS and a good friend of ours
about the same time her A with OM started.
We went out to dinner with some friends, this is well over a year ago now, after dinner and a few drinks, our friend, Steve, whom is married and has kids, his W is best friends with my FWS,
asked Lynn if she wanted to go for a motercycle ride, she accepted againist my judgement and left with him. I didn't think it was a good idea to go for a motercycle ride after they had both
been drinking. Turns out they went for a ride and pulled over somewhere, they were gone
about 45 minutes, and I was not happy at all.
Well, yesterday I find out that something happened when they pulled over, the person that told me only said that Steve tried to kiss her, didn't know what else happened.
Well Steve and his W are still very good friends of ours, atleast until yestday. I asked W about this last night without LB or getting angry,etc. She first denied anything happened, then I told her that I had already found out, finally she confessed that he tried to kiss her but it or anything else never happened. Personally, i don't beleive it but maybe I am just pestimistic after everything that has happened.
I have ALOT of anger with this, although I have not shown her this. I thanked her for finally
telling me the truth and for making the right decision that night.

Now for the problems: I obviously do not want to be friends with Steve any more, FWS understand this but doesn't want me to say anything to Steve or his W.

I feel betrayed again, even though nothing may not of happened, don't know if I will ever
get to the bottom or if I should even want to, the past is the past right? She obviously had
alot of problems back then so even if something happened I shouldn't be surprise. So why am
I filled with anger, I couldn't even sleep last night.

Comments?
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/25/02 12:32 AM
Hi All,

For the past 3 weeks since I discovered MB, I have read every last post of this thread. Therefore, I could not continue without thanking you all for the great information.

My story is quite weird actually! 6 months ago my H became very emotionally detached. There was no evidence of an A at the time. No Working Late, no unexpected trips to the store, no unexplained absences from work. No visible signs at all! Then 3 months later, he was asking for a divorce. I knew things weren't right and without knowing about Plan A or B at the time, I was doing A on my own! To no avail! I felt in reading the MB basic concepts, it was a good plan A. Apparently not good enough! During the middle of July, while I was at work, he was moving out without so much as a goodby! Oh, Except for a letter telling me not to get in touch with him!

I cried myself to sleep for a week, I am a Christian so I prayed with My Pastor and Friends. On the 7th Day, I was a new person! Through Prayer I discovered the 34th Psalm. What a wonderful Prayer especially Verse 18. Through that I am learning that no matter who comes or who goes, the Lord is always there!

Since I was forced into Plan B, I had no choice but to be strong in the Lord.

It's been almost three months now and there has been no contact with H, and it becomes easier everyday.

During that time, I have seen evidence of an A, but because it was 3 months later and I'm stronger, it's not as painful. Oh I still cry, and sometimes even hope for reconcilation but not as often.

We were only married three years. Am I shock or is it possible I didn't love him as much as I thought I did?

And through it all I just took my ring off today thanks to you Petvet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 09/25/02 01:46 AM
davepr,

Your post was MOST distressing to me. While no one can expect any form of perfection in a relationship, I find it extremely disheartening that your W continues to pursue BAD choices, without regard to how YOU will feel. This violates the principles of care and POJA. I can surely understand how this is upsetting to you.

I guess if I were in your shoes, I'd ask myself what sort of PLAN do you and your W have for recovery? It is not enought o just physically get back together. It is not enough to go on vacation and have a good time together. Your relationship must be able to go throiugh the bad times, as well as the good. She needs to protect herself against her weaknesses and vulnerabilities, especially as they relate to OM. Besides that, she should be acting with the UTMOST concern to not give you any angst or worry in the infidelity department.

What is her plan to earn your trust again????

relady,

Your prayers are giving you strength to face you pain and that is such a good thing. Although it may be hards tyo believe this,. 6 months is too early to know "for sure" whether your marriage is 100% dead. Keep praying. You may just get a chance to do some Plan A'ing befrore all is said and done. Oftentimes, the WS walks out but is not quite "done" with the relationship all in one feel swoop like that.

RMA
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 09/25/02 04:08 PM
Hi RMA, I plan to discuss most of this though our MC, remember this event happened over 1 year ago so it is nothing that she has done recently but the fact that he has not told the truth
about it upsets me, plus the fact that this guy (not OM) is still part of our lives....
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/25/02 04:30 PM
RMA,

Thank you for your reply. I will continue to pray, but sometimes I'm not sure how or what to pray, so I'm just praying that the Lord's will be done. Sometimes it feels like it's 100% dead with no contact for 3 months.

I was sure H would serve me papers by now! So maybe there is hope that he's not quite finished yet.

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/26/02 05:22 AM
Hi All,
Dave...
"Ditto" to what RMA has stated.
I see "red flags" all over the place.
She should be very much concerned as to what your feelings are on these type of issues... especially this early into your recovery.
Her apparent lack of concern and/or consideration is the part that is most troubling.
I understand your position... I would be very upset over it as well... and I'm glad that you approached it without any "LB".
I'm sure your guard is up and your walls are starting to go back up at this point in time as well.
I would have a heart to heart talk with her about this.
Get it all out on the table... and express your true feelings as far as how it has affected you and go back over your "POJA".
I would go along with your "W's" wishes for the time being and not say anything to your "X" friend's wife... it will only further confound the problem that already exists... but I would keep a watch on it.
If it continues in anyway, I would then inform your X friend's wife of the situation and circumstance... and brace yourself for the ramifications that I'm sure will soon follow.
Hopefully it is and will continue to be a one time situation.
Hi relady...
First of all, I would like to welcome you to Marriage Builders.
I'm sorry that your here, but it's a good place to be with all that you have going on.
Your situation isn't all that weird... I have been going through a very similiar situation as you have in regards to the way your spouse just up and left with no contact.
As a believer myself... I have had the Lord walk with me through this whole nightmare.
The Lord will get you through this no matter what the outcome.
Put God first in your life and the rest will come.
I can't answer your question as far as if you were in shock or your just not in love with your husband as much as you thought you were.
In my situation... as the time passes, so does the pain.
You will find that you will have good days and bad days as things progress.
It sounds like you are handling it well... and I'm pleased to hear that.
Give it to the Lord, and let him lead your path.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 09/26/02 05:32 AM
Thanks Wallace.... I plan to discuss with my MC (one on One) this week, and then together next week. Nothing may of happened, but once you break trust it is a very difficult thing to rebuild, especially when the other person is caught in a new lie. I understand her position of
not wanting to hurt me, although she claims nothing happend, he tried to kiss her but she
said no, but it makes we wonder and brings back alot of bad memories..

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/26/02 05:54 AM
Wallace,

Thank you for your insight, and for your welcome. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

When I say my situation is wierd, I mean: How do you go from being married and being with each other for 3 years everyday and walk away with no contact?

I read in your some of your post that your WS did at least try to reconcile at times.

Right now I feel very in control and strong, but is that to say I won't fall apart or regress once I see him or hear from him. I'm not sure! Because during his emotional withdrawal I became a clingy whiner! (Oh, boy) Now I know through MB, that was definitely not the thing to do!

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/25/02 07:05 PM
Dave,
Once trust has been broken, it is by far a very difficult thing to rebuild.
Unforutnately she made a very bad decision in regards to going on the bike ride... knowing full well, that it was against your wishes that she go.
Your guard is up, and it's going to take some work on your end and especially your wife's end to ease your concern.
One on One with your "MC" is good, but I think the most productive thing at this stage is for your "W" to show you by her actions that she will be more considerate of your feelings.
Without that... IMHO, I think this incident will stick with you, and it will always be there in the back of your mind... until you see some positve moves on her end.
I wouldn't dwell on it though, you have worked through a lot tougher stuff than this.
Hi again relady...
I think I know where you might be going with this... and correct me if I'm wrong.
How does a spouse walk away from a marriage with no contact whatsoever without at least one attempt at reconciling?
IMHO, in most marriages, not all marriages, they don't just walk away for good, unless there was some form of abuse going on in the marriage.
Your "H" most likely will eventually make contact with you.
Now, I can't say they he may want to reconcile, but, you more than likely will hear from your "H" somewhere down the road.
If and when you do see your "H", I'm sure your emotions will run the full spectrum... no matter how strong you are on any given day.
When I saw my STBXW drive past me on the highway about 2 maybe 3 months ago... my emotions were all over the place.
One thing I can say for certain... when you do meet with him eventually... project yourself not as the "Clingy Whiner", but as a person that is confident, independent and happy.
Show him what he is missing out on... even if you decide that you don't want to reconcile with him.
My STBXW and I reconciled many times... so many, I lost count.
I didn't find MBers until it was too late
Would it have made a difference in my marriage had I found this site before it all came crashing down around me?
I think it would of.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/25/02 10:15 PM
Wallace,

I understand what you're saying. No there was no abuse. Maybe he won't just walk away for good. One thing that I am sure of is that I am by no means perfect, so why do most men instead of communicating let things go to a point of no return?

By the time he pointed what had been wrong from day one 'according to him', and made him feel better he was two weeks from leaving.

Thanks for the advice on how to act when I eventually see him. I hope I can pull it off.

relady
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 09/25/02 11:05 PM
Wallace,you are right,the past is the past and
actions speak louder than words...I spoke with
the mutual friend and atleast what my W told her
is consistant with what she told me... ie he tried
but W said no... Take Care Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 09/26/02 01:28 AM
davepr,

Sorry, I did miss the fact that this happened one year ago. My reply was given thinking this was a new incident.

Your hurt and anger are going to continue to well up, Dave, until you get to the point that you have processed all thos feelings. It is natural for you now to be able to focus on ho hurt and mad you are about all those incidents. Indeed, they were hurtful incidents.

Just be careful - you have to grieve those things and feel the anger and hurt, but you also have to be able to be loving and forgiving. You have so much to do when working on repairing the marriage, but you can't forget about you in the process, either. Use this place, trusted confidants and your personal counselling to vent all those bad feelings, dave. You can't stuff them - you've already done that for a long time and look - they don't go away - they just simmer beneath the surface. Just try not to vent to your W, as I think this would be hurtful to your recovery. She likely isn't quite up to facing 100% of the reality of the hurt and anger she has caused you.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{davepr}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

relady,

Wallace has given good counsel about how to act. Yes, most often, you will get some interaction with your H when you least expect it. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Work on yourself during this time alone. You need to be confident and secure in yourself as a person before you can be good mate "material". You are much more stable than I was 6 months after discovering my H's affair. Keep praying for God's will. That way you leave your expectations open - not pre-determined. You can only control you and your expectations - nothing else.

God bless, RMA

<small>[ September 25, 2002, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Roll Me Away ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/26/02 02:09 AM
RMA,

That's is why I asked if I'm still in shock or not in love. It has been 3 months and I feel as though I've moved along too rapidly!

Just today I found out that he was having A with OW-25 H-55. All I could do was laugh histerically.

Now I ask you, is that normal?

But, on a serious note, My strong belief in the Lord and Wonderful friends and family have gotten me through this. And especially praying God's will. While being alone, I realize that I don't want what God doesn't want for me. Because what He gives, He adds no sorrow to it. And my M included alot of sorrow.

When and if he contacts me again, I will be calling on MB for advice, so that I don't make a complete idiot of myself! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care,

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/26/02 02:36 AM
Hi Y'all
Wow, a lot of posts in 24 hours!
Dave...I also ditto what RMA said. I'm sorry you're having to re-live some forms of deception (I guess the "guilt of omission" type of thing). I'll be praying you can work through this without much backtracking during recovery.

Relady...welcome to MB. I wonder what state you live in? Each state's requirements for divorce are different - is that the outcome you want? (I know it's hard to think of reconciliation when you haven't heard from him in so long.) I understand what you mean when you say you don't know how to pray! My prayers basically are for the Lord to take the blinders off my husband's eyes to be open to the deception he is operating under (a.k.a."the fog" here at MB). Also for myself, to be open to hear His voice and purposes for me during this time. And you are correct, it is easy to be strong when you haven't seen or heard from him, but that may change when you are in contact. So use this time to continue improving yourself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Once you're separated, not seeing your spouse at all, it's easy to start thinking of yourself as single, independent, and not allowing for the possibility of the marriage working out. That in itself isn't totally a bad thing, part of our natural self-protection mechanism. It's something that, early in separation, we might still need to guard our hearts about, lest we become too hardened to our situation and not allow room for anything else other than what WE assume/predict our futures to be occur. Something along the lines of "emotions predict our future based on how we feel today (single?)". That may not make good sense, but it's just my opinion.

Update on me....I spoke with Steve Harley this week, 3rd counseling session. He feels that maybe I jumped too soon into Tough Love/Plan B scenario and wants me to initiate some types of contact with H in order to have opportunities to demonstrate change and also to have positive types of interaction. So I called H today about taxes (yes, we file late!) and he agreed to meet for dinner. Now, I didn't get my hopes up that this one thing means anything (remember, H had wanted us to be friends throughout his affair). But I admit that since he had not finalized the separation agreement he initiated, and still has belongings here, I felt somewhat hopeful for our future. Dinner went fine, lots of small talk but good conversation too about our jobs, worries about son, etc... However, I checked the mail after I got home from dinner, and what do I see but the finalized separation agreement, which he signed the day before our anniversary <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> He didn't bring it up at all during dinner. He agreed to everything we rebutted the original one with, but I don't consider it a victory. And why he waited 3 months from writing it originally to making the changes I asked for and then signing it, I don't begin to understand. I'm a little bummed about it but it's in God's hands! Anyway, that's my little vent, time for bed.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/26/02 09:47 AM
Hi all!
Boy, things have been very active on this thread for the past day or two.

Dave: I'm sorry to hear about your situation. The first thing I would do is meet with the MC to find out whether it's a good idea for your W to spill her guts or protect(or guard) your feelings. It's going to be hard to recover if revalations keep popping up. Another thing that you need to speak to MC about is whether to inform the biker's W about the incident. As a real friend, she needs to know that she is living with a scumbag who has probably strayed to other women. Personally, biker would not be a friend of mine. With friends like biker, who needs enemies? I'm so sorry Dave. Talk to the MC.

Avondale: Does your H want his cake and eat it too? You may want to inform Steve about the separation agreement to determine whether he wants you to stay in plan a. At this point in my relationship with my w, I do not have time for small talk. If she want small talk, she can talk to her buddies and OM. You may want to ask your H whether he is going to move his things out since he is legally separated. Also, please resolve your tax issue with him ASAP. If you owe money, try to get it resolve soon. You don't want any lingering debt with him.

Oops! I need to go to wake kid up for school. I'll be back later.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 09/26/02 12:11 PM
Thanks everyone, I have an IC scheduled with our MC at 5pm today... I feel like my W needs to tell bikers W, they are best friends..butit needs to be W decision... If biker did this with W, he will do it again and again, and at some point he will get caught... at some point he will get what he deserves... Personally, I will never speak to him again, ever, unless I decide to tell him what I think of him but I am trying to hold off on that.

Avondale, sorry to hear about the seperation agreement, but we also went through a legal seperation and child custody,so you never know, you are doing the right thing, leave it in Gods hands.

Petvet, Wallace, RMA, Relady, EC,hope all is well.

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/26/02 12:29 PM
I'm back.

Relady: Welcome. Since you have had no communication with your H, you may want to contact him if possible to see what his intentions are. It may take him a while to come around since he has found him a younger gal. Thirty years huh? That is funny, but not uncommon. When she finds someone with more to offer, she will kick him to the curb. I will assure of that.

Dave: Stay strong.

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/27/02 05:13 AM
Hi All,

Avondale25, Sorry to hear about your separation agreement, but hang in there. Remember God saw this day coming and He has made provisions for it, just ask Him what your next step is and lean not to your own understanding.

There is a six month waiting period in my state for divorce, However; I'm not thinking about divorce or reconciliation. IMHO When BS operates from "emotions" we always lose, because they will always let you down when you need them the most.
So, I try to keep them in a straight line by analyzing the thoughts I allow to linger in my mind. Sounds like I have it all together, huh? WRONG! I still allow the tears to come periodically.

PetVet,

I a little confused by your advice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Since there has been no contact for 3 months, won't my H feel I should know his intentions? And if not, won't they become clear eventually? Besides that, he left under a 'cloak of darkness'; he needs to find out what my intentions are, like do I have a gun!! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/26/02 08:55 PM
Hi All,
O.k., where do I start?
There is quite a bit going on... it has to be in the air.
Within these last couple of years... it seems like this country is losing all of it's morale standards. I do believe we are heading for end times... this world can't keep going down the path it is... well now that I got that off my chest.
Petvet...
How are you doing?
You were MIA for a little bit... how are you making out?
RMA...
You have given such wonderful advice and insight as to all that is going on with our trials and tribulations... you are truly a very kind and considerate person.
May the Lord bless you always.
How are "you" doing, and how did your garden finally turn out?
Dave...
In my opinion I think you are on the right track with this latest development.
I wouldn't make too much more out of it, but I would keep my eye on it... and you already know about finding a new set of friends.
Avondale...
I'm so sorry to hear about how your "H" handled the seperation agreement.
When our spouses are in the "fog", they are capable of just about anything at anytime.
They have a total disregard for our feelings, as they are to caught up in their own selfish needs to worry about anything else.
I would keep the lines of communication open with your "H" as much as possible, and work a good "PLan A" without becoming a doormat or allowing yourself to experience any additional hurt while working your "Plan A".
Much can happen before your "D" is final.
The Lord will take you down the path that he feels is in your best interest and is best for you.
Your holding up well... with all that you have happening right now.
Keep up the good work.
relady...
I think Avondale put quite a few things into perspective... I fully agree with what she has brought forth.
I'm rambling I know, but I will try to make this brief.
As far as communication... "why men let things go to a point of no return".
It's not just men... woman do it to.
I'll give you my STBXW as an example... she
did the very same thing as your "H"... let it go to the point of no return.
My STBXW has had multiple "affairs", and got caught.
Why no communication? I think it's a combination of a number of things... shame, guilt, low self esteem, the list goes on.
They can't face us, due to their actions.
They know what they have done, but they don't care, and they don't know how to deal with it... at least for know they don't.
So this is their answer, no contact... because "really"! What are they going to say?
In the long run... it will be their loss, not ours.
Are you moving too fast? Somedays you will feel that you are moving at 1000 mph, and other days you will feel as though you are stuck in a rut... it's the start of the roller coaster ride IMHO, and it is not a fun ride to be on.
Keep your focus on the Lord... put God first and foremost in your life, and you will get through this, no matter what the outcome.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/27/02 02:50 AM
Relady
Your husband really isn't in any "shape" to truly "know" anything. Do you have any idea where he is, or is it as if he's in the witness protection program? Maybe he got abducted by aliens and that's why his behavior is so bizarre <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (that is what I say about my H sometimes, LOL).

You can't assume that you know what his intentions are. After all, I think you said you two haven't talked much about your situation. How have you handled his mail, banking, etc.? Have you not needed to contact him about anything like that? Although I didn't see my H for 8 weeks straight after he moved out, we did have to correspond through e-mail a few times to settle things initially. Surely there has been (or could/will be) an opportunity to interact with him. If so, I'd use that time to not LB and to show him how you've changed (even if you don't need to change, you can change his faulty perception of you). I would welcome the opportunity for a mature discussion just for personal peace of mind and knowledge to help in any future relationships. I don't know much about your particular situation but I wonder even about taking off your ring after being separated 3 months. Petvet & Wallace had been separated for years (I think) before they did that. I guess what I'm saying is, don't do anything hastily, don't burn any bridges behind you, while you're still in this transitional phase. Oh, and thanks for the gun warning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RMA , I meant to ask you earlier...if you don't call him a "boyfriend" what do you call him? Just curious, I know what you mean about those terms when you're over 30, LOL
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/27/02 04:57 PM
Hi All,

Wallace

I'm sure it's not just women, "fog" apparently has no gender <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale

I have no idea where my H is. Every telephone number I discovered has been disconnected. I'm sure I could do some snooping and find him, but I haven't had a desire to do that. Before he left, he said some of the most horrible things imaginable as I'm learning that all WS do.

He changed his address on the things he wanted to come directly to him and I get the junk mail. We never had a bank account together per his request which was one of the problems. From what I've been hearing lately, this isn't the first time he's disappeared from a relationship!

If I have an opportunity to interact with him, I definitely won't LB, even before he left I deposited many units to no avail.

I took off my ring because it no longer represents what it was meant to. I'm not doing things hastily, or burning bridges. I'm allowing God's perfect will to be done in this situation, and when I get directions to move forward, I will.

Remember, we have no children, married 3 years, I owned the house. One of the things my H said before he left was, "don't expect me back"

relady
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/27/02 04:58 PM
Wallace

Sorry, I mean 'men'

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/28/02 05:02 AM
Relady,
Thanks for the clarification...sounds like y'all have been on different wave lengths for a while. Keep us posted if anything new develops:)
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/27/02 08:26 PM
Avondale,

Gee, does that mean my case is hopeless?

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/27/02 08:41 PM
Hi All,
relady...
I'm going to try to answer your question as best I can.
Why do men (and or women... LOL) let things get to the point of no return?
I'll try to sum it up in two words...
SELFISH and SELF CENTERED..
IMHO, I believe that it all evolves around those two words.
The "WS" is all consumed with themselves... nothing else matters... and their life at this point in time evolves around those two words by virtue of their actions and their thoughts.
I don't know if that helps explain why they let things go to the point of no return, but for me, those two words help explain why the "WS" conducts themselves in the manner that they do.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/27/02 09:02 PM
Hi again relady,
Your case is not hopeless... anything but.
I know exactly the position your in... my STBXW has done much of the very same things as your "H".
I... like you... could locate my STBXW if I really, really wanted to.
I chose not to pursue that avenue.
If she wanted the "M" as badly as I had, she would of found a way to make contact.
I know if I was in her position, I sure would of figured a way to try to bring us back together again if I had any concern for my marriage.
So in essence... her actions, and her lack of communication, speak volumes as to the state of our "M".
I'm going to give her what she wants... OUT of the marriage.
I will be "D" in about 3 weeks.
I have no regrets... I gave it everything I had and then some.
I will be able to walk away from my marriage with that in mind, I'm not so sure she will be able to the same.
relady... you should be working on you while you have the time... Plan A.
Plan A is really for you, it's not intended to be used as a lure to get the other spouse back.
If they are around to notice the changes in you, then so much the better... but in essence it's to make changes for the better for you.
I would work on Plan A, and if your "H" has contact with you, he will notice the changes.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/27/02 09:12 PM
Relady
No, I don't think ANY case is hopeless in the early stages of separation, yours included! (Sorry if it came across that way, not what I meant at all.) As you said, you were Plan A'ing before you even know of Plan A (me too!) So you were already ahead of the situation before he left <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That's great!

Wallace is totally right about selfishness and self-centeredness being the main cause of why WS do these stupid things they do. They are only looking out for themselves and their own personal satisfaction, usually for the moment, not for the good of the whole (such as couple/family/kids) and certainly not for any long-term planning.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/28/02 12:08 AM
Hi All,

Now that I have finished "crying" myself a river", I feel much better. I haven't done that in over a month.

In reading all the other posts at MB, there is so much pain. God can not be pleased. How in the world can so many WS's think that they could possibly reap any kind of happiness in light of what they have sowed is beyond me. Meanwhile the devil convinced them that they had a bad marriage so they left, and he's sitting in the corner laughing at them. Yet claiming another marriage! Pathetic!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

You guys, Wallace, PetVet, RMA, Avondale are the most awesome bunch of people. Through all of your posts right back to page 1, I have been inspired by your strength, and courage. Thank you all for being there and welcoming me without judgement <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am continuing to take this time to work on myself. I'm reading a book entitled, 'Finding Peace for Your Heart: A Womens Guide to Emotional Health, by Stormie Omartian.

I'm currently thinking that any attempt I might make to contact my H would be very painful, because as long as he's in this "fog", what he has to say would probably not be kind, and push me back to step 1.

Take Care All, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Have a great and wonderful weekend,

relady
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 09/28/02 12:26 AM
relady,

You wrote:"IMHO When BS operates from "emotions" we always lose, because they will always let you down when you need them the most."

Good point! It is sooooo hard to not let one's hurt and anger drive the decisions that have life-long ramifications. Yet, each person involved in the affair - the WS and the BS - needs to really think things through carefully before making decisions such as to divorce or not. Unfortunately, too many jump too quick based on the emotions of the moment, without thoughtful and thorough analysis of the situation and ALL the options. Too often, people only see 2 options - divorce or return to an unfulfilling marriage. The third option is often disregarded by not just one of the spouses, but often by both of the spouses: creating the marriage you want with the partner you already have. Sad thing is this: even if one partner "sees" the third option, it does no good if the other partner refuses to "see" this an option. Alas, that is why so many of us ended up on this board.

avondale,

Glad you got to counsel with Steve. Makes you feel uplifted and inspired, doesn't he?? I enjoyed the sessions I did with him. You know, Plan A techniques are wonderful. They will help you no matter who you are dealing with. If you get the chance, do practice them on your H. You may end up back in Plan B at some point later, but kindness and respect to your H are good things no matter how things end up with you two.

Oh, I do call him my "boyfriend" or my "guy". I just don't like the term - makes me feel like a teen!

Wallce, I am well, friend. We are still going strong - my guy and me. The garden really did produce a ton for having a drought. Now, with the tropical storm, it has rained for a couple weeks almost every single day, and the tomatoes are starting to rot from too much water. You know - one extreme to the other! But, I have canned and frozen and eaten so many. I still have some coming in, but things have definitely begun to dwindle in terms of tomato production, due to the cooler nights.

Only 3 weeks to your divorce, huh? Know that prayers are definitely coming your way. You will continue to have mixed feelings for a while, Wallace. Glad that you are no longer legally tied to your W due to her actions, but incredibly sad as it signals the death of the family you had known and loved. It is going to hurt for a while more, Wallace. Thinking of you and your kids.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Wallace}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

davepr, how did the counselling session go? Thought about you today. Well, at least, I think you had that session today. Let us know how things go. But, it seems plausible that you are just going through a normal grieving and angert phase. I agree with Petvet - this guy isn't your friend. But, I respect that you will leave the truth-telling up to your W.

Petvet, how is your son getting along these days? Is his Mom spending much time with him? I havemn't noticed you posting about her visitation lately.

RC, where did you go? No news from you for a couple days, I think. Just saying Hello and hope that all is well with you.

Hope I did not miss anyone. Have a good Friday night, friends!

RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/28/02 06:43 AM
Hi all!

Well, the court date is November 7th. Part of me feels good and another part feels bad. I wish the date was sooner. November seems so far away. I feel bad for my kid. He is having alot of problems in school. We are considering moving him to another school. One of his teachers who knows w told me that she wants to have a woman to woman talk with her. He told me recently that he doesn't understand why mom is living somewhere else. It makes me sooo angry when I think about
it. That letter that I was going to send to W
about a week ago, I sent out earler this week
after I had shorten it. The letter basically says that if she wants to meet with her pastor to try to work things out that I am open to such a meeting. As of today, she has not accepted my offer. My mom, in laws, teachers, etc. are worried too death about the kid. I can tell that my inlaws have aged on their faces since this mess started. My father in law is not his happy go lucky self lately. RMA, w sees son everyother weekend and on Tuesday. My attorney has given w one more chance to sign cs agreement. The deadline is Tuesday. At this point, it does not matter whether she sihns it or not since the court date is so close. I know that all of her friends and OM (I still believe he is around some how some way)are hailing her as a hero. She believes that she will end up on top. Lately, whenever we get into some sort of conversation, she blames me for everything.

RMA: I'm happy to hear that things are going well between you and your man. To be honest with you, I have not paid much attention to garden lately, especially, since my melons did not see the light
of day.

Relady: Take this time to build yourself up mentally and physically. Don't be hard on yourself; many of us did not come to this MB site until it was too late. I hook onto this site in time if only my w would have cooperated. You will have to make the decision as to when you are going to cut the rope. It will come in time.

Wallace: Well, you and I are really in the same boat now. I'm not going to use the manter "STBXW" because I don't view my impending court date as a happy time.I am prepared to move on but this was not what I wanted. I still care for my w. I know that I will fall in love again. I want that in my life. One thing that I am so happy about is that I get to raise my kid. At least, I am not a visitor. People really respect that from men.

Avondale: What's up?

Dave: How did things go?

EC: Where aaaare you?

I'm glad I have you folks to interact with.You have been a life saver.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 09/28/02 01:39 PM
Petvet/Wallace,I am so sorry that it has come to this, I pray for you and your children..

IC went well,she did help me find some positive signs in this mess...regarding where we go from here, obviously we don't want to be friends with him anymore, my W is very uncomfortable around him, he is a preditor,he preys on the weak.
Our MC said that we cannot continue to make excuses to avoid them, that we need to tell them
why without going into the details. Thefore,we are going to tell biker guy that we are both not
comfortable with his feelings toward W and therefore we can no longer be friends. As far as his W,we will not tell her anything except that she should discuss with her H as to why we don't come around anymore. It is not fair that our M
has to deal with this, he caused the problem, therefore we are going to give it back to him.
We have had a few very good days since all of this,I am still dealing with the A but it will get better.

Petvet,I commend you for sending the letter, I hope it gets the results you are looking for.

Take care everyone,hope you have a great weekend.
Dave
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 09/29/02 05:46 AM
Here I is, I is baaaaack.....

Hellwo guys and gawls.....A little elmer in me.

Nothing new happening here. I am just trying to take it one day at a time. Looks like everyone has some interesting things going on here. Haven't spoke to exw or D's. My YD b-day is in about 3 weeks, trying figure out what to send a seventeen year old. I really miss her.

Its sad but I don't take the blame that I missed OD 11,12 grade years and now missing YD 10,11,12...Sometimes I want to be there with all my heart but WW has dangerous OM in the house I can't take the risk eventhough I want to face him sometimes....they're both snakes..

I remember reading WW's emails and how people rooted her on in leaving me, they would tell her you got this far you can't stop now...Sounds just like the devil to me..anyway what they didn't know was all her affairs going on, she was decieving these people making me out as some monster and her some soft sheep in a bad marriage.

My WW was so good she even had my sister convinced I was a problem until my sister heard my side and realized she was seduced by WW manipulation. When my sister went to FL in May she saw it for herself with OM there.....

I told exw my sister knew OM been around for sometime and exw was fumming, she said "You big bunch of gossipers" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> mind your own business.....

Sister and exw has been best friends since 11 years old until all this.

I laughed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> at that comment because she thinks what she is doing is not a topic for discussion, thats where the Self-Centerness really shows itself.

So here's what WS's want us BS's to know while they do their dirty work and A's in your face.."Mind your own business you big bunch of gossipers don't you know affairs and adultery are private and personal, if you see me with OP, turn your head and don't ask questions!!!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Take Care
Posted By: Nitehawk Re: Tough Love - 09/29/02 01:47 PM
Hi everyone involved. Read all of this from page one on and now I come back to see whats occuring. Im Nitehawk my post is Communication/Plan B. I am geeting closer to my divorce from BS but there is always a glitch that stalls it. For one trying to do this amicalbly {pro se} with someone you don't trust. If we don't do something by Oct. 24th the case is dismissed. Yes sometimes I want this but more times I want to get this over with so I can get on with my life
What I want God would not approve of because we are still married. Ive tried all the plans since Sept 28th 2001. Sometimes it seemed like they were working in the beginning but as time went on her OM and family and friends let her know and convinced her he is a great guy and I will always be the jerk. There are no morals in her group of people.
This is a great site to learn andlive by. Take care and good luck to all. We all could use some
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 09/29/02 04:02 PM
EC,

I really had to laughoutloud when I read your post. Sorry, 'cause it really isn't funny. I just laughed at the ridiculousness of your exW - gossiping about her and OM! Gee whiz! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

nitehawk,

Hello, and welcome to this thread. You get a pat on the bak for reading through so many pages! Really, this post has chronicled the evolution of Petvet's relationship with is wife. Yet, I do agree, there is alot of good advice here. I will go and check out your post.

Petvet,

So you finally got a court date. I truly do hope and pray that your W will answer your letter and agree to the counselling effort with your pastor. If she does agree, it won't guarantee success, but at least will be a barometer of her willingness to exhaust all avenues before giving up. if she doesn't respond, then I think it means she just isn't to the point where any meaningful recovery could take place, because she has no desire or willingness to fight and work for it.

No matter how that plays out, I think yoiu have done one of the finest jobs of following Harley's principles. You have been so good and kind to her, yet established appropriate boundaries and consequences. You seem to have done little to no LB'ing or venting and disrespectful judgements to her. You really have done just virtually everything you can do. You should be proud of yourself. Know that you have earned the respect of many people here, including me.

Take care, RMA
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/29/02 08:35 PM
So now we know that EC turns into Elmer Fudd after midnight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm trying to think of what gifts to suggest for your daughter's birthday...at that age they always want cash but that is so impersonal. Any chance of you seeing her on her birthday? I think I recall that you were having improved communications with her this summer. Whatever happened ?(you probably posted it but I missed it.) I bet she misses you more than you realize. There is a bond between daughters and dads that is VERY hard to break, and even without regular communication, it will renew itself easily. Hang in there!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/30/02 08:33 PM
Hi All,
Well my OD19 laid a bombshell on me this weekend.
It ticked me off so much I posted a new thread on it.
I could just spit I'm so angry.
relady...
Letting, and getting it all out,
is one way of helping yourself heal... and as you said... it does make you feel better after you've let it all out.
If you think that contacting your "H" would be painful... then by all means don't do it... at least not until you feel that you are in a safe zone for yourself emotionally.
RMA...
It's good to hear that you and your guy are doing well.
You must be one of the few that had your garden turn out so well with the drought conditions and all.
Thank you for your prayers RMA.
Yes... it's 3 weeks away until the day.
My emotions are way up there right now... and I know it's not a good place to be.
I'm leaning on the Lord as much as ever now... and Satan is very busy... not only in my household but many other people's homes as well.
I feel it's going to be a very rough ride over the next several weeks, and the fun will only be beginning at that point I'm sure.
It is very much like a death. I've ran through just about every emotion conceivable since it all started.. it's gets better though as time goes on.
I'm glad your here to share this with.
Petvet...
You are the man.
I truly admire you my friend... you have come so far, and you have endured so much.
You allowed me to come to your thread when I was at one of my lowest points.
With no where to turn... and with no answers... You, RMA, and Dave helped me more than you can possibly imagine, as well as all the other people who are too numerous to mention... and I will never forget that.
I pray that your "W" will respond to your letter in a positve manner.
If I thought that there was one slight chance to save my "M", I would of done the exact samething you did.
I know this isn't what you wanted.
You and I have been running side by side as far as wanting to save our marriages.
My battle has been lost, and it's time for me to retreat from this battle to heal from the wounds that have been inflicted.
Hang in there my friend, it's not "over" until you say it's "over".
Dave...
Thank you my friend for your kind prayers as well as the wisdom that you bring to these boards.
You hit a bump in the road, as I'm sure there will be many.
You are on the right track... keep doing what your doing, and as tough as it is... you will make it.
It "will" get better.
EC...
It's a shame that your "EX" has put you into the position your in concerning seeing your "D's".
There is probably no easy solution to get past that if the "OM" is that dangerous
"shhhhhhhh... I'm hunting Wabbit"... j/k.
You are so right about "Mind your own business you big bunch of gossipers" ... that's how twisted these "WSs" think... LOL.
Avondale...
How are you doing?
I've seen some of your posts... and with everything you have going on... you are handling things very well.
Keep up the good work.
Nitehawk...
I too would like to welcome you to "MBers".
I am amazed that you have read this whole thread... that's a lot to read.
I read the whole thread as well... of course it wasn't quite as long as it is now.
I think Petvet could make a miniseries out of his thread.
I haven't read your thread yet, but I will... and i fully agree... the "BS" is always made out to look like the bad guy.
Sorry to see you here, but you have found a good place.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/02/02 01:15 AM
Y'all
I am totally in the pits. I found out that H is out of state visiting OW. After actually having hope for us because we were communicating, then getting the separation papers somewhat unexpectedly after 7 weeks of inactivity, I feel like I've given a stronger kick in the gut. And to top it off, I have a strong suspicion that H has used some 401K money which should have played into any settlement to pay off a personal credit card. I don't know if this is finally reality coming to land on my door or what. I was doing great with everything until now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I will see him on Friday per previous agreement to work on the dreaded taxes. I plan to ask about his timing of the separation papers (remember, he signed day before anniversary). Part of me wants to ask if he's made any trips lately (he mailed support check from airport out of town). Yesterday Steve Harley gave me some pointers about conversation along these lines, without being combative. But I'm scared I won't remember any of the right words. I'm not prone to angry outbursts but I am so POed right now. Hopefully I'll cool down before I see H on Friday.
I am so discouraged <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/02/02 04:40 PM
Avondale,

It's OK, I'll just jump down into the pit and bring you out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Don't be discouraged, there is always hope as long as you are communicating. Actually, you're not sure why your H went out of town to see OW!

Don't allow your emotions to dictate your actions, or your mind to entertain thoughts that can be of no benefit to you. Nothing is what it seems!

IMHO, when you see your H, I definitely would not ask about trips out of town. If your communication has been great lately, allow him to do the talking and be a great listener and he may just tell you.

And only be POed for 15 more minutes, otherwise you will be exhausted on Friday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Also, read my post on CaJunky's Prayer list and your discouragement will disappear.

Take care,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/02/02 08:32 PM
Hi Relady
Thank you sooo much for the encouragement. I did read your post on Cajunky's prayer list. That is like the third time I've seen that book recommended. Guess I'll have to buy it. I've already read "Power of a Praying Wife".

I had a pretty rough night last night and didn't go to work today. But I did stuff around the house I enjoyed, and am trying to not mope. I'll keep your 15 minute limit for POedness in mind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Will see H on Friday afternoon, and still not sure whether to slide his trip into the conversation (maybe so, in a little "hit and run" style), but I"ll keep your advice in mind. I definitely won't ask outright, for sure.

Thanks again!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/02/02 10:20 PM
Avondale,

You are too funny! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You already know that WS's are the authors of the "hit and run" style, so you probably won't succeed. And it could hender any further open communication. Remember, WS wants to have an A, but can't take having it rubbed in their faces on top of the guilt they already feel.

Sorry, you had a rough night, but after 25 years, you are entitled to them, just remember the 15 minute rule.

I strongly suggest you get that book. It will definitely keep you focused on you and the Lord.

IMHO, On Friday, I would also suggest, you look like a million dollars and act very nonchalant, and by all means, don't be reactionary. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/03/02 01:06 AM
Hi All,

Ditto to what relady has already stated.

It's hard when things like this come out of the blue when you least expect it.

It's like getting hit in the back of the head, it just puts you into a daze.

Keep the lines of communication open with your "H" and try not to "LB" when you meet with him.

Petvet, RMA, Dave, and everybody else, where are yoooooooou?

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: candybars Re: Tough Love - 10/03/02 02:40 AM
Hey Petvet!! Could you email me and tell me a little about your situation? Mine may be a little similar to yours.

I was on this board a while back under a different name but am back- and sorry to say that my situation is actually worse now. I am the bad guy I guess- left my husband in May for a woman. H and I went to court on the 12th of this month and were granted the divorce. Throughout this whole situation I have had a nagging feeling in my stomach that I was doing the wrong thing- even in terms of what I wanted. I have however been very blinded by this other person- and little by little over the past few months the sparks have lessened (as my logical mind knew they would)- I have always known that it wouldn't last because I know that very few affairs ever do.

SO........

The typical thing is happening now- I want my husband and family back. I know that we have a lot of work to do- but I am willing.

Glad to be back here.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/03/02 05:24 AM
Hi all! I'm so sorry I have been away off and on lately. I am soooo exhausted. I am hagging on my the skin of my teeth if that. I am so worried about my child. He is having so many problems in school and I am not getting any answers on how to resolve this problem. He has taken a turn for the worst big time. I just don't know what to do. I never have enough time in the to do anything. I have to make my life simplier.

I feel bad that this thread has been in existence for so long. It sort of happen this way. I know it is a soap opera; unfortunately, it's not fiction. I would not wish this on my worst enemy. I just want to be happy with my son and live in peace. My life has been a hell hole for five or six years. I cannot give up because my depends on me.

Wallace: I hope your daughter is not making your life more difficult. I think you are feeling alot of pressure like me because so much has been placed on our shoulders; unfortunately, our bodies (mentally & physically) are beginning to break down.All the outside presuure from family only make things worst. You and I realize that our wives will probably continue to be pains in the butts. One thing we need to do is to associate ourselves with good people.

Avondale: I understand your hurt and expectations. I would recommend that you not expect anything from your husband. I would get a clear understanding what your husbands intentions are , so that you can act accordingly. I think that he is trying to be friendly to you for his ego, but he taking care of his business of hooking up with someone else and starting a new life.

Candybar: What are you going to do now since the fog has lifted? Are you contemplaing going back to your husband?

EC: Your exw has lost it. She expects people to just overlook her lifestyle and weird beau. I was so exhausted that I did not even catch the funny cartoon antics. I wish I had your positive attitude about your situation. You appear to be a very grounded individual. I hope you are getting along with your life. You deserve a good life.

Later.
Posted By: candybars Re: Tough Love - 10/03/02 10:37 AM
Hi again-

Although I left my husband for a woman- I think in my case the gender is not a real issue. I have always considered myself bisexual.

Anyway- I broke off the other relationship for the sixth or seventh time the other day so I know that I am in the midst of infancy here in terms of getting anywhere. This time feels different though. The pain of "withdrawal" doesn't feel like it is approaching- I think a lot of the stuff that brought the withdrawal on has passed. I am trying now to start forgiving myself for the mess that I helped create.

Our 2 children are doing well at the present time and we have agreed (H and I) that we will not discuss any thoughts of reconciliation to them because we need to take things real slow. H of course is quite skeptical.

H had made it very clear at the time of my decision that we needed to separate that he was not going to leave the house- and that he would fight me for custody. We also happen to live right next door to his parents and sister- so I decided that my leaving would be the best. I did not want to disrupt the kids lives anymore than what already would be. It was the hardest thing I have ever done. (kids are 10 and 4)That was 6 months ago. I see the kids almost every other day-liberal visitation- and have them the usual every other weekend and one night a week. Initially I lived with the other person- but that went sour quick so I got myself an apt 4 miles away from the marital home. I was a stay at home mom and went back to work full time after 14 years. H bought me out of the home so I have been able to make a nice home for myself- but I am somewhat in a fairy tale because I cannot afford even the place I live. I am surviving off the equity money. I knew that I would need to until I made more money..

Well- that's where things are now- my situation has been a true Jerry Springer episode- if the details were discussed most people would find all 3 adults here pretty dispicable- but I am trying to recognize our humaness and learn from some of the mistakes.

Hope everyone has a good day.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/03/02 11:52 AM
Wallace... How are you holding up? Are things any better with your daughter, now that you've gotten over the shock? At least you know where she is, I have no clue where my son is. You've responded to the "flameing" posts very admirably, btw. You're a strong person to not return fire with fire, you've given very level-headed responses, and I wanted to be sure to let you know that.

Petvet ... How old is your son? You've said he's having problems before but I can't remember the particulars. Any way we can help?

<small>[ October 03, 2002, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/03/02 01:21 PM
Hi Petvet and the gang!!

Thanks for compliment Petvet but I hurt and suffer just like everyone else here, I have more good days than bad, I feel I'm on the other side of the storm now, I can look back now at the damage. I think what happened with me at the beginning was WW had her many A's at once she chased me off and with many OM's threats they became an army of adulters...I felt so low at that time like a slug in the road I could have just melted and washed away. In that time of need my strength came from the Lord to get back up and believe I was worth a million dollars in society when I had nothing and lost everything, feeling worthless....

Ps 18

17 He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me. 18 They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the LORD was my stay. 19 He brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.

Its ODD but exWS's ran to my rescue first before BS's to help me. At that time I didn't know anything about what a BS was or WS, all I knew was either one spouse was faithful and one was a cheater, so the converted cheaters, as I knew them helped me and gave me lots of info until I found this site.

Hang tight you're going to make it, as you know it gets better with time!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/03/02 03:41 PM
HI Wallace,I read your other post regarding your daughter. I am sorry for the situation,not exactly what you needed after everything else. Personally, I don't think you are going to change her mind, kids sometimes need to figure things out on their own, even though we as parents know from our experience that it is wrong. I think all you can do is to love and support her, not the behaviour, but her as a person, kinda like Plan A.
I hope everything works out.

Petvet,any reply regarding the letter?

I am going to be MIA for a while again, going to the beach with the W for the weekend, leaving this PM, fist time we have been away without the kids in over 4 years. Gradma is in town and watching the kids... Traveling all of next week (Mon-Fri, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Take care everyone!
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/03/02 09:01 PM
Hi All,
Petvet...
I'm sorry to hear of the problems that you are having with your son.
I'm sure your son is feeling the effects of what has been going on just like you have.
I know this whole mess on my end has had a profound effect on all my children... as you can see with what has just transpired with my OD.
It's difficult juggling work, and spending quality time with your child, with all the wonderfulness that is surrounding you I'm sure.
I've tried to make my life as simple as possible in order to try to juggle everything that is going on. Sometimes it's easier said than done.
I would however try to make a real effort to try to spend as much quality time with your son as you can. They will sometimes open up to you at that point and tell you what's bothering them.
Hopefully you can garner enough info from him to try to head off any additional problems that may come up.
I have to agree with you... I think we are mentally and physically starting to wear down.
We both have been at it for quite awhile and it does start taking it's toll on you.
With my OD leaving, it didn't help anything. I'm sure it was taking it's toll on her as well.
As far as our wives being pain in the butts for sometime to come... I have to agree, I think I am going to be wrapped up in her garbage for a few years to come... mostly from a legal standpoint.
Have you heard anything from your wife concerning the letter you sent her?
Hang in there, it will get better... it has to... can it get any worse?
Avondale...
I'm holding up O.K... thank you for asking.
I did talk to my OD the other night by phone, but I don't know where she is staying.
So I am in the same boat you are in as well. I don't know where she is staying... I think she already moved in with "BF".
I think she had already committed to an apartment before she left... and before she gave me the news that she was moving in with her "BF".
By the way... thank you for the nice compliment.
I expected many more flames than what I actually got.
How are "YOU" holding up?
I know that was quite a jolt you received the other day?
With these "WSs"... expect anything, at just about anytime.
You can try to prepare as best you can for what they are going to do next, but it's very difficlt to anticipate what they are going to do at any given time.
Just guard your feelings as best you can... for they surely will have no consideration for them... at least not while they are running around in the fog they are in.
EC...
The way you described how you felt, brought back some painful memories.
I... like you... still feel the pain and suffering like so many of us here, but it does get better as time goes on.
There are those good days and bad days still.
In time I'm sure they will start to level out.
Keep posting the Bible versus as well... I don't have a Bible in my office... and it's always refreshing to read scripture no matter where you are.
Dave...
You are so right about not changing her mind.
There comes a point, when you have to just let go, even when you know deep down it's most likely not going to work out for the best.
Have fun at the beach... and I hope things have leveled out concerning the situation with your ex-friend.
candybars...
It sounds like you are trying to put your "M" back togehter.
If that's the case... congratulations!
Is your husband open to reconcile?
I noticed that you said you broke it off with the "OW" for the sixth or seventh time. Do you think you can get past the withdrawls this time around and make a go of truly putting your "M" back together again?
I hope you can... keep us posted.
RMA and relady...
How are you both doing?
I hope all is well.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Just Learning Re: Tough Love - 10/03/02 11:54 PM
Candybars,

There are several women posting on the General Questions section: Kily and hopeful_person, who are in a similar situation. HP had a long term affair and divorce is final, but the fog has cleared and she is trying to get back with exH. Kily is dealing with a similar situation. You might find that they can help you and you can help them.

In any event sorry for breaking in here, but I thought you might find it something to consider.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/04/02 01:28 AM
candybars,

Welcome to the thread. I echo Wallace - it is wonderful that you have the desire to repair your marriage. Your children can only benefit if you two can make a successful marriage this time. It really boils down to Plan A, doesn't it? Treat your exH as if he were a guy you were trying to woo and attract, because he is. I would think your biggest challenge here is going to be trying to temper your own expectations and frustrations as your exH eyes you up and down twice with distrust. Know that you will have to earn his trust. It will be doubly hard since you are bi-sexual. You will have to guard yourself from both mean and women. Are you in any counselling? It is important o be able to critically and truthfully assess yourself for both your strengths and weaknesses, to help you ID problems that lead to your affair. Keep working on knowing yourself better and improving yourself. If you are honest and sincere, and you truly put in the efforts, you may be able to put together an enviable marriage with your exH. Pray that he will be open and receptive, and give it plenty of time.

Petvet,

Sorry to hear about your son. Look, he just doesn't understand and is likely having problems understanding it all. What does his counselor say? What is he/she advising you to do? Is his mother a part of the counselling?

Don't beat yourself to death. You are doing everything for him that you can. His hurt is really starting to show.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Petvet}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
Wallace,

Sorry to see the post about your daughter. My experience with young adults is this: you are responsible for imparting good values and modelling those values for your kids. Once they are over 18, unfortunately, they are considered adults, and responsible ofr their own decisions. I think it is important to share how disappointed you feel about the choices she is making, and WHY you are disappointed (religious convictions, whatever, etc). Yet, I also think it is important to let her know that you love her and always will. Yet, with love, comes YOUR conviction of not helping to support a lifestyle that you do not condone. In other words, you cut her off because by not doing so, you violate your own convictions and morals. Leave it at that.

Also, I'd make it clear that she is always welcome around. You don't want her to think that she can't ever come home because she made a mistake, do you? You must leave the door open, so that if she decides she made a huge mistake, she will know that she can come home and begin to make things right.

Really, it is how you are treating your WW, isn't it? You don't condone or support her behavior because it violates your principles, but yet, you have left the door open for a very long time in case she wants to come home and being to set things right with herself, you and the marriage.

Tough Love is truly in order.

To all else, Hello and thinking of you all.

JL,

Thank you so very much for adding that advice to candybars. I get to see so little of what goes on here, so your input will be greatly appreciated by her, I am sure.

Also, I invite you to add your thoughts onto this thread. You have so much to offer and we have collected a wonderful group here that post encouragement to each other. Your wisdom would also be appreciated.

RMA
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/05/02 05:25 AM
Hi All,

Friday at last, I hope you all have a great weekend.

Petvet

Sorry to hear about your son, it's difficult to be around the stress of parents in a DV and not be effected by it. Once he sees peace reestablished in your life, I'm sure things will get better..

As for your tread. I'm certain it was somewhat painful and healing at the same time. Although, I'm relatively a newcomer, I feel like I know you all personally. I have read every page and every post and it was God sent for me, as I'm sure it has been for others as well.

So hang in there, when you get to the end of your rope, tie a knot and God will show up.

Wallace

I'm doing great.

How is your daughter? These 19 yr olds, who can figure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I was just informed that my 19 yr old niece is dropping out of school with her boyfriend to continue their education in New York! (Yeah Right)

Avondale

This is the day you're meeting with your husband, Right. NO OW TALK, OK. BE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> LOL

RMA

How are you? Hope you're well.

Candybars and JL welcome to what I think is one of the best threads on this forum.

As for me, I have still had no contact with H. Each day I am fully understanding what it means To Take Care of Me and To Be Strong. Now that I have more time to spend with the Lord, He has been revealing things in my heart that I had no idea was there! Each day I get stronger and more confident. There is no way I could except my M the way it was. I thought I was being a loving wife when in actuality, I was a doormat <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I am beginning to see that once you start working on yourself, there is no time to wonder what the H and OW are doing. I am a full time job in me!

God Bless You All,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/04/02 09:51 PM
Hi All,
RMA...
I think my OD is mad at me for not accepting her choices that she has just recenlty made.
I talked with her the other night, but haven't heard from her since.
So I'm not sure which direction she is heading with all this.
She knows that she was making a bad move, but she went ahead with it anyway.
I have left the door open for her to come home when it starts to become too much.
She knows I love and care for her, but all I can do now is just hope and pray that it all turns out for the better.
I guess I'm in a "Tough Love" situation with her as well as with my STBXW.
It just gets crazier as time goes on.
I'm heeding your advice.
Petvet...
How are things going with your son?
Give us an update when you get a chance.
relady...
So far, I haven't heard another word from my D since I last talked with her the other night.
I had to snicker when I heard about your niece. Hopefully your niece will get her education in a school instead of somewhere else... it does sound a little suspicious.
I as well have had no contact with my STBXW.
During this time of healing, grieving, and all the other emotions associated with going through a "D".
I have become much closer to the Lord.
Without him at my side, I'm not so sure I would have gotten as far as I have.
He has shown me things as well put things in my heart also.
I... like you... could never go back to the "M" that I had.
I guess as time goes on, this is all somehow revealed to us.
You sound like your heading in the positve direction.
Keep up the good work,and let the Lord lead you down the path he chooses.
Avondale...
I hope your meeting with your "H" went well today.
Hope everyone has a good weekend.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/05/02 12:55 AM
Petvet I'm kind of concerned cuz you haven't posted lately. Are things OK? Just know we all are here for you...an update on your son would be helpful if you have time and inclination.

Relady Sounds like you've got the vision, using your time to work on you. That's great! I also used my time to clean things around the house I hated to do, like under the burners of the stove. Yuck!

Me My meeting with H went well. I didn't get disgusted by mental pics of him with OW, I didn't LB at all, and yes, relady, I kept <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> about what I knew! All in all, things were positive in that it was pleasant and he agreed that we need to talk because he's never given me a reason for this whole separation/OW business. In fact, he halfway agreed to talking to Steve Harley, not for reconciliation purposes, but for himself and to see how to go on with this decision he's made towards divorce. We'll see how & if that appt. might work out, but he did seem agreeable to possibly talking further, which is a good sign. I'm not getting my hopes up, though. I just keep praying his eyes will be open to this stupid deception he's fallen into. The whole time we talked, I just felt pity and compassion for him. Not love, but regret for what he's doing with his life and family. Oh well.

RMA, are you doing a fall garden? We used to plant spinach and broccoli which were hearty and easy to harvest and freeze

EC, Dave, everyone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ...hope y'all have a good weekend and enjoy yourselves.
Posted By: candybars Re: Tough Love - 10/05/02 01:28 AM
Roll Me Away- thanks for the words. I am in counseling and have been in counseling most of my adult life. I am also in AA and have been sober almost 14 years.

One of my counselors felt that my attraction to woman in my marriage has been related to the lack of oral sex in my relationship with my H. I know that H and I have some sex work to do which is yucky. We have never been on the same page with regards to frequency- I have always wanted more than him but I was willing to compromise so long as he was giving and considerate when we were intimate. I have been with many men and never have had an orgasm via penetration so I have always needed oral or manual stimulation to be satisfied. What started happening with H was I was always taking care of him- he would be satisfied- and then would make an excuse or just fall asleep etc and I would be left with nothing. I've been through the whole gamut- made myself extra clean, attractive etc--to no avail. Then to top it off I was feeling emotionally neglected and boy- a woman did look better- especially because -hey- they look a lot better too!

H and I have done some marital counseling but never enough to do any real work and that is what I am hoping we can do now.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/06/02 10:59 PM
To all,

Only have a minute. Guy friend is taking me to dinner. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Just wanted to let you all know that I am thinking of each of you, although I don't have much time tonight.

Prayers for all my friends here....RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/07/02 05:41 AM
Hi folks! I have been catching up on what's been happening to my buds.

Wallace: I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. I think her BF is taking advantage of your daughter's family situation and is trying to form some sort of family bond between him and your daughter. I just hope that she does not get pregnant. This situation will burn out. How old is this cat? If you don't know, you need to find out because that means a lot. At this pace my friend, you are destined for a spot in heaven. You are one tough cookie emotionally. You will be one better person after your mess is over.

Candybar: First, let me give you credit for getting out of the fog and making an attempt to get back with your husband. Do you have a sexual addiction? Were you searching for something? The reason why I asked is that I wonder whether my w has a sexual addiction.

RMA: I'm happy to hear that all is well with your guy.

Avondale: Sis, i'm hanging in there. Your H is still on the fence or what? Don't get your hopes up.See what Steve can do.

Dave: Keep on keeping on.

EC: I realize you have your good days as well as bad, but you seem to have a good handle on things. Do you want someone else or are you holding out hope that your w will come back? You have alot to offer someone who will appreciate it. What do you think?

Me: well, situation with kid(six years old)has gone from worst to worser. I am keeping him out of school Monday until we meet with principal on Tuesday. He had a bad episode on Friday. I am seriously thinking about taking him out of public school and putting him in parochial school. It will be so much easier for me and him. I want to give it at least a try. He needs structured environment. Since I work next door, I could check on him several times a day. Something has to change because the present program is not working. I don't buy the Attention Deficient psycho babble. Have anyone on this thread had any dealings with ADHD in their kids as far as their kids being diagnosed as having ADHD? No, w has not replied to my letter. She has said that she wants to talk to me. When I went ti pick kid up yesterday, she started telling me about her messed up tire. I said to myself, you are not married to me anymore, what do you want me to do? Yesterday, I slept like a rock. I got seven hours of sleep. That was the most sleep I've had in months. Normally, I get three or four hours of sleep per day. I went out of town Saturday to make some extra money; while driving in the wee hors of the morning, I nearly drove off the road several times. This Greyhound bus and I really had it going on I-20 East. He was going 80-90 miles per hour and I was right behind him. As a matter of fact, I made the trip in record time. When he pulled off to a rest stop (I should have pulled off as well), I was on the road by myself and nearly ran off the road several times. I have decided to make my life less stressful, so I can better care for my kid. Since I am a single parent, I have more responsibilities. Driving the way I did was not smart. I could have killed myself. I am glad God was looking over me.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/07/02 03:28 PM
Hello Avondale,Petvet and Everyone,

My weekend was pretty good. I one friend over on Saturday we ate pizza listen to music.

I had another friend of mine up on Sunday we bar-b-qued and watch football. We spoken over the years but my first time seeing him in seven years, he lives out of state.

We had a chance to talk about a lot of stuff.

First thing he saw was how my house looked inside and asked what woman has been in my house decorating? He was like oh who's the new chick in your life? I chuckled and said this is all the things me and exw had. I told him I set the house up with all the things we had and this is what she gave up at the time she left for her affairs, then I asked him the question what should I do if I decide to meet someone else and the relationship grows and exw decides she wants to come back? Then what?

Well he expressed that exw is someone totally different now, she's not who I remember.

Thats very true and hard to except. When someone who knew us both says that its like a reality check. He really thought I should focus on what's in store for me rather than trying to revive whats dead.

His concern is when he saw me last 7 years ago he and his wife marvelled how my W put me down in front of people. His concern was why risk it and go back to that, especially if she hasn't changed?

I said I don't know, you just seem to remember the way they were, you remember more good than bad....

At some point I will start to feel single again haven't got there yet. I kind of like feeling married some days eventhough I'm not, I think it keeps me out of trouble sometimes.

I guess if a woman comes along she'll have to club me upside the head to get my attention because I don't have a clue if a woman is trying to flirt or not, I just don't know.....I guess she'll have to slip and fall down in front of me then I'll say, "Oh Hi".

Take Care.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/08/02 01:39 AM
Petvet,

Yuck! about your son and his troubles. I have no experience with ADHD. But, I did send my sons to parochial school as long asd I could afford it. I loved it! Graduated from one myself. I think the smaller school benefits some kids, so, yes, it may be worth a try.

Your W is telling you all her troubles about her tire because she is still trying to depend upon you for emotional and any other type of support that she can. Stick to the issues regarding your son and nothing more unless she wants to discuss issues related to reconciliation. I am not surprised she hasn't mentioned the letter. But, that may mean she hasn't ruled it out completely or it may mean she is a 100% conflict avoider and just doesn't want to try reconciliation but can't bring herself to tell you that. I honestly think she is 100% through with you yet, as she continues to try to get you to meet some of her needs. I don't know, Petvet - just stay the course, as Wallace would say.

Wallace, yes, Tough Love is in order. Have you heard anything else from your daughter?

EC, how smart your friend is. Yes, I agree, at this point, you should be concentrating efforts forward. I know it is hard to get over your exW. It SHOULD be hard to get over her. After all, you loved her very, very much. You just don't give that up very easily. It takes time. In time, if you choose, your heart may open up to allow another to touch it, even it she has to knock you over the head with a 2 x 4 to get your attention! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Look, seriously, if your exW wanted another relationship with you in the future, she would have to do a couple things: 1) make herself attractive enough to you to want to be in a relationship with her and 2) I would think she would have to put out sufficient effort to woo you this time. Hey, never say never - I know several couples who divorced and married each other again. All 3 couples I know are still remarried to each other, too. Actually, I know 4. You never know, but don't hold your breath waiting. Keep trying to move forward.

relady, what a good attitude you have! I had such a whiny, clinging and begging attitude. I think you respect yourself an awful lot, relady. That confidence can only help you. God does give us the strength we need to face anything when we trust in His outcome - not our own. Yes, efforts to improve yourself are nver wasted. Keep up the good work!

avondale, hope to plant lettuce and cabbage. Just haven't gotten much done lately. We are still picking tomatoes. I am dreading the end of the fresh tomatoes and having to spend a fortune on tasteless tomatoes during the winter.

That is great your H is at least thinking about talking to SH. Mine never did do it. You know, SH helped me alot. If nothing else, you won't get off that phone with him and not feel uplifted. I think I did 4 or 5 sessions with him, and I never felt the money was wasted even though my marriage was not saved. I felt like it was an investment in ME. Good luck!

candybars, good deal. You already have a proven record of being able to overcome some bad things in your life. The things between you and your H are "fixable" in my opinion, if both of you can treat each other with care. If a person cares about the other, they will do those things to please their partner. Your H must learn to meet your needs in a way that pleases you. This can be learned. You guys need to fill out the emotional needs questionaires - might be eeye-opening for you both!

Hope I didn't miss anyone. Good night, RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/08/02 04:09 AM
Hi folks! I absolutely cannot believe the Braves are about to blow another playoff series. Well, at least my Bulldogs are back on track. Since Spurrier is gone, the Gators are prime for a whipping.

EC: yep, I think your friend is right. You need to look forward to the future. I would not wait for your w. You can live a happy life w/o her.

RMA: Later this morning, we have important meeting with principal. I think I am going to give parochial school a try. Wife does not like the idea because it will mean increased cs for her. W called to let me know that she is willing to take a 3rd shrift jobb in order to pick kid up from school. I said thanks but no thanks.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/08/02 11:49 AM
EC - I think it's great that you can even get together with a friend you haven't seen in 7 years. Somehow I have lost touch with a lot of my old friends. That may not necessarily be a bad thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> for all of them, but I think it's remarkable that you were able to pick back up an older friendship. This person was objective with his comments, having not been "in the middle" of your storm, so to speak. What he said was right!

Petvet - As you may know, North Carolina ranks #49 in all educational results & statistics. So my kids went to smaller church-run schools up until middle school. It is definitely worth the money. You may want to look at it as an investment that is more necessary than setting aside college funds. There are always scholarships, work-study programs, and grants for college kids. You'll be able to lay a strong educational and spiritual foundation while your son is at this age and it will only serve to help him down the road. Hope your meeting with principal goes well this morning.

Catch y'all later <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/08/02 02:11 PM
Hi All,
Petvet,
My kids all went to private and/or Catholic school.
They all received a good education... more so than at a Public School.
I found out early on in their elementary school years, that the Public School system could not meet my childrens educational needs.
My experience between the two is they are like night and day.
My advice... if you can afford it... send them to private school.
On my side... my OD calls the house everynight.
She talks to my YD16. She hasn't asked to speak with me.
She did move in with her boyfriend in an apartment and to the best of my knowledge she is getting along just find for the moment.
Nothing else really new, just getting ready for the final court date on the 22nd of this month.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/08/02 04:48 PM
Hi Everyone,

I hope all of you had a great weekend.

Wallace

I'm sure that even though your OD is not asking to speak to you, she is asking your YD about you. Of course, your YD won't tell you because it is a sister thing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RMA

Thank you for the compliment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Before H left, I was a whiner, a clinger and a begger. I think that is one of the reasons he left while I was at work. (coward) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

During the first week, I was a basket case. I suffered a great deal. But through it all, I refused to call him. When I felt the urge, I would call a friend. After that week, it seemed like I had a 'supernatural' heart fix. God revealed to me that I had let my H take His place in my life. 'There shall be no other God before Me' came flooding back to me. Even though I attended church every Sunday, I had stopped talking to God.

I think when we look to someone else other than God to fulfill our needs, we put a lot of pressure on a relationship and our H or W.

Over the last 3 months, I have indeed become stronger, and more confident. I still have a long way to go, but now I depend on the Lord to guide me every step of the way. And He unlike our WS's will never leave us, no matter how whiny, clingy and beggy we are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Sorry to Preach, but thanks for listening.

God Bless You,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/09/02 02:07 PM
Hello everyone!

Well my yesterday was an awesome day, it was my b-day...yep, the big 40 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ...

Anyway it was good day they plastered my picture up at work along with a decorated cube in the big 40 theme..

Well I didn't do much to celebrate just treated myself to Redlobster....

Now the other part. Exw called late at night and said the girls want to talk to you and she said oh, happy b-day, I said thanks. YD gets on phone says h-day, we talk and she is excited to talk...she's working evenings..

Then its OD turn, she says h-day and we talk, to my amazement she sounded so humble and gentle, smiling and talking and giggling a little? I was shocked! I asked her if she's planning to come she said she would like to but can't decide thanksgiving or christmas....it was so nice, for the first time in 2 1/2 years she sounded like my old D when we sat down and watched a movie and ate popcorn and talked about anything. In the past 2 1/2 years all she did was abrupt into anger, as you remember in her letter she was wanting us to move forward in our relationship, wow what a change. I felt I have both D's back now more than ever she was so positive.

While talking to her I could hear YD and exw in background laughing and joking like they were excited I was on the phone. I remember those times they would do that when I was at work and had to work late or something and they were waiting for me to get home, I would call and check on them.

I also found out from OD that she was suppose to go to the 4 year university on her scholarship but some reason she's going to a community college in town for 2 years then going to finish at a university for the last 2 years...I guess its to save money? I know her plans were dwarfted by exw's affairs having me put out of my family, exw in her affairs thought my presence as a father and money meant nothing.....I remember D in letter said she missed out on so much in the past 2 years, I guess its that out of highschool syndrome. ......Divorce destroys lives

Anyway exw gets back on phone and I say in a loud voice " so how are you doing?!!" she said, fine, monotone, It was real short, but, it was the kind of "fine" of a cover up, I know her. I think she was saying its going horrible but I don't want you to know.

Then I had to talk to her about a form and she was just as nice but she stuck to the business stuff, however she was open, she wasn't closed up and defensive as in the past.

I was so excited about talking to YD/OD and that exw wasn't hostile ,when I was saying bye I said " I love you " she said talk to you later..

I hang up and said dang it, why did you say that? I felt I played right in her hands because she paused again before hanging up.

Take Care.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/09/02 02:38 PM
Hi All,
relady...
My YD will make it a point to tell me that my OD called, but she wont elaborate any further than that. So I think you are on to something there.
I also think that you are doing all the right things concerning your situation. I wasn't clingy, etc., but I pretty much followed and have continued the same pattern as you are.
RMA...
I agree, I think "Tough Love" is in order.
I think she is following the same pattern as her mother... they are both in Plan B and using it on me.
Petvet...
How are you making out? Have you made any decisions concerning your son's school?
EC...
How are things going on your end?
Sounds like you had a pretty good weekend.
I talked on the telephone with some old high school friends a couple of weeks ago who called me out of the blue. I hadn't spoke to them in years... we got caught up on quite a few things... it was good hearing from them.
Avondale...
How are you making out since the last meeting with your H. I hope you are still holding up well.
Dave...
Hope your trip to the beach went well, and that things are progressing in a positve manner.
I hope everyone else is doing well as well.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/10/02 05:37 AM
Hey EC,
We must of cross posted.
Happy belated Birthday... hit the big 4/0 yesterday huh?
Well congrats on making it to the 40 mark.
It's great news to hear that you had an opportunity to talk to your girls... I'm sure that made your day.
It looks like you will be seeing your one daughter here real soon... I'll bet your excited about that.
Your daughters sound like they are missing you a lot, it will only be a matter of time when you will be together again with them. You may not be there in body but I'm sure your there in their minds all the time... you can count on it.
Interesting conversation with your ex. Even though I haven't spoke with mine in so long, I would expect a very similiar conversation such as what you had with your ex. I'll bet your heart was ponding at about a million miles an hour.
I know how you probably felt, I can't describe it, but trust me... I know.
I'm sure you wanted to just slap yourself after telling your ex, "I love you".
I don't think you did any harm in telling her that. No "LB's"... you handled it all very well.
Keep that up and your ex may start rethinking her whole situation.
Things are looking up for you, you have a great outlook on everything, and I look for good things to come your way.
Keep the faith.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ October 09, 2002, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/09/02 11:52 PM
EC,

How wonderful to feel like you got both your girls back emotionally! What a GREAT BD gift for you!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Don't worry about saying "I love you" to your exW. You still do ina way, don't you? A part of you will always love her - the part that remebers all the good times. I don't think it played into her hands. For all you know, God may have put those very words into your mouth as a healing gesture. Your kindness towards your exW will go along ways to ease the tension of your daughters. I am happy for some positive news in your life.

relady,

You wrote: "Over the last 3 months, I have indeed become stronger, and more confident. I still have a long way to go, but now I depend on the Lord to guide me every step of the way. And He unlike our WS's will never leave us, no matter how whiny, clingy and beggy we are."

WOW!!!!!! You are a trillion miles further down the road than most. This is some amazing stuff. You know, I also have that faith, but let my own pain eclipse my faith. My healing began...truly began when I was able to pray for "Thy will be done and Lord, give me the strength, courage and fortitude to dig down deep and accept Thy will when I need it most."

relady, you are doing well. God is nusing you as an example, I am sure, for many, many here. Keep the faith!

Wallace,

Don't worry too much about the OD calling for the YD and you being left out of the lopp right now. Look, you aren't approving, and in a way, perhaps your OD is "punishing" you with this Plan B. Banish thoughts of comparing your OD to your W. Pray and think the best thoughts for her. Remember, she has YOUR blood in her, too, so there is alot of good and tenancity there. Keep praying - this is just another test of your faith, friend.

Petvet, How is son?? How are YOU??? The days are ticking off here - any word or reaction from your W or her lawyers??

Avondale, anything new with you?

Dave, hope your trip was great.

RMA
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/10/02 01:44 AM
EC ....Happy Birthday to you! And what a treat, to get that phone call. I agree with RMA, don't worry about the "i love you" slip. Besides, maybe you threw her OFF a little bit by saying it!

Petvet , how did it go with the principal? (Does that sound like a flashback from when you were sent to the office years ago? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) Hope your meeting went well and your son will soon be settled in somewhere.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/10/02 04:42 AM
Hello Wallace, RMA, Avondale and All,

Thanks for the b-day wishes

Wallace I remember not long ago going through the leave you out of the loop thing with OD. I would call the house and speak with YD and OD would never want to talk and ignore me calling. IF OD ever wanted something she asked YD to ask me. I had to tell YD to stop being her messenger and I wouldn't except anymore of her passing messages, so at some point your OD may have a need that only Dad can meet with cash or something, haven't we all been there? the longer we waited the more we suffered. I took a tough love approach I even knew she was in need of money or whatever, I stood my ground. I remember when OD finally gave in it was a load off her shoulders. I always passed the message though and said tell OD I love her. I knew she was taking it in, but she never showed any sign, she still appeared angry, never would get on the phone and talk, happened for 1 year. I remember when she did open up a little at first I mailed her some knick knack items. YD is the one that wanted come OD wasn't sure, now they both want to come, thats a major change. I think a big part of them not wanting to come at first was me and WW battles and them having to face the family here and embarrasment I think they were feeling exw's shame also....I think the hunger to see me and family despite what happened seems more important to them now.

RMA, yes, I do still love her, but now I'm trying to define in what way? things have changed. Saying I love you has a different meaning now. I had the thought of what if she told me she was getting married next week, how would I feel? At this point I know it would collaspe because she left out of lies and deception and never worked on her, of course thats beside the point. I think I feel detached far enough not to cry over it at this point, maybe cry for OM. I do love her in remembering the good times, she was great for 17 years of M.

Avondale, you're right I don't think I may have done any damage, I think when I talked to her the time before this and said I'm here if you need me, that may have caused her to be nice this time.

If she is like me, there's not a day that goes by I don't think about her. Who knows what may happen if she knows that when she talks to me now she may get sweet words with a track record to them like oven cooked food verses, the fast food she's getting now, that stuff gets cold quick. Thats all OM/OW bring to WS's, fast food, its hot for a moment, taste good, feel good, never can build a healthy lifestyle with it.

Anyway take care all......
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/10/02 05:30 AM
Hi folks!

EC: Happy belated birthday! I'm knocking up against 40 myself. The way things been going I sometimes feel like 140. No pune intended. I am happy that your kids and ex acknowledged your birthday. On my birthday, I treated myself out as well to a nice restaurant.

Wallace: It will only be a matter of time before your OD when be in touch with you. She knows that you are not happy with her decision, so she is staying clear of you. Did you find out anything about the dud?

Me: We had the meeting with the principal, and she was ready for us. She had already decided to give us what we wanted which was to move kid to another classroom where there would be structure and a no non sense teacher. This morning kid started in his new classroom, and he was not happy when he saw who his teacher was. If this does not work, I'm moving him to parochial school. W is against moving him to parochial school because it will increase her child support. Oh, thanks for your comments everyone about your experiences with parochial education. I was notified yesterday that w has signed the cs temporary agreement. I was told that the November 7th court date was to hear the comtempt charge not the divorce case. I am not a happy camper. I am meeting with my attorney later this morning when I go to attorney's office to sign temp agreement. W has been calling daily to talk to son. She makes a point to take time to hold conversation with me.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/10/02 04:28 PM
Hi All,
Thank you all for all the input you have given me.
I'm actually pleased that my OD is calling the house all the time. It tells me that she wants to keep the lines of communication open.
I know she is mad at me because I haven't accepted her decisions, but I think in time we will eventually start talking with each other again and start working through some of the issues that are there.
Petvet...
Her boyfriend is 20 years old, and he works as a bus boy in a hospital cafeteria.
They both have their work cut out for them.
I hope things work out for your son with the class change and everything. I went through the class change routine with my son and eventually we just pulled him out and put him and his sisters in private school. It was a little spendy, but it was well worth it.
It appears that your "D" proceedings are starting to drag like mine did. You reach a point where you just say let's get this over with one way or another. I guess everything for a reason.
12 more days to go for my final day... looking forward to it, bet yet... I'm not looking forward to it.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/12/02 04:53 AM
Hi all! Thanks for the advice concerning kid and school. So far, things appear to be going well with new teacher; however, the principal does not appear to be too happy to have been asked to make a change. She did not hardly speak to me yesterday when I attempted to speak to her twice just in small talk. It's my understanding that she has tried to take retribution against those teachers who she thinks advised me to me with her ans request the change. Not good if you ask me. Eventually, I am going to probably move him. D NEWS: Kid's mother finally signed temporary agreement after three months. I asked my attorney did she find out what took so long, and she told me that the kid's mother tried to fire her attorney because he advised her to sign agreement and pay cs per the law. Remember, she told me that he wanted more money and that's the reason she did not have an attorney anymore. We are still going to court on Nov. 7th anyway because she still owes me and my attorney money. We are going to try to get the D case heard as well as the contempt charge. I'll be glad when I don't have to deal with anymore attorneys. I need to be involved in healthy relationships rather than with someone who causes so much stress.

Wallace: Yes, your OD is in for a hard time. After your court date comes and goes, a large amount of pressure will be lifted from your shoulders. Who is going to represent your w in her absence? Does she have an attorney? How are you going to collect the damages after the court ruling?

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/12/02 12:53 PM
Hi Everyone,back from vacation (last weekend Thurs-Sunday) then on the road with work (mon-fri).We had a great time at the beach.

Hope everyone is well...Happy Birthday EC....Gland things are going better with daughters. I would't worry about saying I love
you, it never hurts to be honest.....

Wallace... stay stong, I wish you the best on your
upcoming date,I know you want to get this behind you, yet I understand that it is still very difficult.

Petvet..sounds like you WS still has a need for ES from you otherwise she would not be going out of her way to try to have conversations with you.

RMA, Relady,Avondale: Hope everything is well..

For those of you on the East Coast,hope you didn't
get too much rain, we had a lot of flooding here
in NC..

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/13/02 11:01 AM
Dave , glad you had such a great vacation. Making more of those good, positive memories, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's almost 7 AM here and I've been awake since around 4...got bored and decided to hang around online. Big Mistake . I ended up doing a google search for the OW's name...she has a ton of listings. I knew she was a musician (as is WH) but seems she is somewhat famous, at least on the west coast. I even found pictures of her. And she looks a lot like me, just older with (hopefully) colored hair! Is this bizarre or what? Now I wish I had never done that, I felt better thinking she was some gray haired grandma with wrinkles <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

How much snooping did y'all resort to in order to find out details about the other person? I wasn't that curious before; was just living in my little fantasy world that she was really ugly or something and it was only the "music/soul connection" that hubby had with her. Now I feel worse for knowing. I guess the old adage about not snooping unless you can handle what you find out is really true.

<small>[ October 13, 2002, 06:03 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/13/02 11:48 AM
Hi all!

Dave: It's nice to hear that everything in still going well. Word to the wise, be careful with the business trips because you do not want to get back into a similar situation as before with your family.

Avondale: Your H is in a fantasy world. This is going to be interesting.I did alot of snooping at first to get as much info as possible on the affair, so I could use it in the case. I would only get what I needed because to much info will probably get to overwhelming. Do you have an attorney? If not, you need to get one. Singers (male & female) go through people like it's nobodies business. Does the singer know that her boyfriend is married?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/13/02 12:39 PM
Hey Petvet,
Thanks for responding! She's not a singer, she's a classical musician...no way can I compete with THAT, lol. And I do have an attorney, who is holding all my findings. I think I'm going to stop with the snooping. You're right, it CAN become overwhelming and I don't need any more "evidence" for my case.
And yes, she does know he's married because I have emails where he was torn about being with her (because of me) and she was encouraging and "chasing" him.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/13/02 10:11 PM
Avondale, I did very little snooping, guess I already knew enough to drive me crazy.. I never met or saw OM while FWS was having the A. I didn't see him until after the A was over and I wasn't impressed. But,remember it is not about the OP. The OP just happens to be there, the problem is with the WS, the OM could be anyone,it doesn't matter if they are the best person and have everything going for them or in my case some
guy that turned out to be just in it for himself... it is about the WS trying or not trying to find out what is wrong with their lives..running away for their troubles..and not facing reality.. the OP is just the ticket out, nothing more...

Petvet...I have no more travel scheduled at this point, I hope I can go the rest of the year without any business trips but that may not happen.. alteast no more week trips,maybe just an
overnight...

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/14/02 05:50 AM
Avondale: You are correct; you cannot compete with the classical maneater because your H is in wonderland. There is a local hall that send me solicitations concerning classical concerts all the time, and I have to admit that looking at the glossy pictures of the classical artists is impressive. If she is any good, it will be interesting to see how your H likes the fact that his classical Barbi doll is out on the road over 100 plus days a year trying to make a living.

Dave: Good points made about OP not being the main problem with affairs but the WS.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/14/02 11:25 AM
Dave
You're right, and you put it so well about the OP just being the ticket out. The problem is the WS needing a reality check and not realizing their dissatisfaction comes from within themselves (at least in my case). Thanks for the reminder.

Hope y'all have a good week! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/14/02 04:51 PM
Hi Everyone,

I hope you had a great weekend. In trying to keep busy I'm wearing myself out! So, I booked myself on a last minute cruise leaving this coming friday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's been a little over 3 months now and I haven't heard from my H since he left. One thing I can say about no contact, it is far less painful!

EC,

Happy Belated Birthday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Oh, to be 40 again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Glad to see you spent quality time with your daughters.

You said 'I Love You' to your EXW because 'Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks'

Avondale,

The only snooping I did was the cell phone bill and a bank statement. Saw a lot of preparation before H left. But after a month or so, it became to painful and I decided I had enough pain without reliving it everytime I snooped.

It is so true that WSs' use OP as a ticket out, because they are all such cowards anyway.

Petvet,

How is your son and have you settled on a school yet?

Davepr

Glad you had a nice vacation, I'm looking forward to mine this week. I really need it!

Wallace,

Once your OD sees what she is giving up to live with her boyfriend, she turn around especially if he can't support her in the maner to which she is accustomed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Because I'm sure you were a wonderful father.

RMA

You are way too kind <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I too believe the Lord is using me to reach other women who may be in the same situation; and to let them know that it is not hopeless. If we allow the Lord to use us in these situations, we grow through them. Because, they have indeed come to pass. A book entitled, 'Finding Peace for Your Heart' by Stormie Omartian has been my second bible through all of this.

And as far as my H is concerned, I want the Lord's will for my life If that includes my H then he will be a different man when he comes back. If it doesn't so be it, he'll just make room for the right one. Every time I try to direct my own steps, it turns into a fiasco. So I now have a hands off policy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless You All,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/15/02 05:39 AM
Hi All,
I hope everyone had a good weekend. Mine was too short as always.
PETVET...
Does your wife have an attorney now, or is she going to represent herself on the upcoming trial date?
Do you think you can combine the contempt trial with the actual divorce trial?
Concerning your son's school. I ran into the very same problem with the School Principal.
My son's Principal was on a massive power trip. She didn't like her authority being questioned. So she created quite a few problems. So much so, that we pulled all of our kids out of the Public School system, never to return. It was a very wise decision moving my children from Public to Private school... I wish I had never let them go to Public School looking back on it.
As far as my situation with my "D" and what is going to happen if she is a no-show. I'm not sure how it is going to play out... I'm sure it's going to be a mess with or without her there.
Avondale...
When I got wind of my STBXW having an "A", I didn't snoop becasue she was already gone. I did however dig up everything that I could possibly get my hands on concerning her last years activities. I was quite shocked to say the least with what I found. I found out more than I ever cared to know.
I no longer need or want to know anymore about my WS... I've found out enough.
It's normal to want to know as much as you can possibly find out about what they are up to and who they are with... but you will eventually reach a point where you will not want to know anymore, unless your a glutton for punishment, which I don't think you are.
What Dave has stated is 100% on the numbers... it's about them not you.
Dave...
Gald to hear that you had a good vacation and everything is going well. Petvet already brought up about the business trips so I don't need to get into that.
keep up the good work and stay the course.
Me... The lady I recently told you all about... Well I have decided to start dating her just as soon as my D is final. I have been talking to her mostly over the phone. We have had a few get togethers with friends after Church... and we have decided to take the plunge and commit to a possible relationship, not marriage though, just dating to see where it is going to take us. So maybe relationship is too strong a word here. We are just going to date.
Her D is final tomorrow, and mine is just about a week away.
I wanted to make it a point that if and when I did find someone... they would understood just exactly how I felt, and what I have experienced... I'm not sure but I think I found that someone. We are both taking it very slow though.
RMA, EC, relady, hope everything is going well and that everyone has a good week.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/14/02 07:44 PM
Wallace, I am very glad to hear that you found someone to have a potential relatonship with... I know you will take it slow so I don't need to say anything.. I think that is is extremely admirable that you waited until after your divorce before starting up something new... after what your STBXW has put your through, most people would have started another relationship long ago, I admire your values! I wish you the best of luck next week, what is the exact date again?, and the best of luck in your potential new relationship/dating.. although happiness comes from within, it is always nice to have someone to share your thoughts, feelings, days, etc with...

W and I had a good MC session today, we are going to write a letter to our ex-friend and his W and explain that because certain boudries have been crossed we can no longer be friends.. we are not going into the details of what did or did not happen that night but only to say that
they should discuss the details if she is unclear of the situation...

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/15/02 01:45 PM
Hello All,

Nothing new happening, thanks for all the B-day wishes.......

Relady, you're right out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speakest...I do love her, but I'm trying to examine in what way now, you want to love them but without validating their actions...if she ever turned, repented and was sorry, became a strong christian woman again, learned what she did wrong she could really reel me in like putty, a hot knife to butter...

Wallace, man just a matter of hours and you'll be a single guy.

Avondale, just because a person is a musician or singer and you meet someone of the like gift, don't mean thats the right person, all you find is that you are in love with the persons gift and ability but not the person, go beyond the gift and what do you have? a mess. So your H is chasing a fantasy, don't be discouraged.

Take Care.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/15/02 04:36 PM
Well guys I think I spoke to soon, I emailed exw about YD b-day coming up and what YD wanted besides the expensive $300 gift, exw responded back:

Her:

I may talk OD into splitting the cost of the
PlayStation with me. Just not sure yet. If you're
interested, we could all split the cost and get her a game to go with it. It would be about $85 for each of us. Just let me know.

I tried to email you yesterday but it came back. I
wanted to tell you that I just put the forms in the mail this morning. I apologize for the delay but so many things are going on right now with family and work. I'm trying to settle on a new church home. If it's okay with you I'd love to ask your opinion about the two of them.

What about the papers so we can modify child support? I haven't seen any papers or heard anything from the courts yet? Just let me know.

end
******

Oh boy!?? She said she would love to talk to me about this and get my opinion?? Is this wild or what? This is the same woman that wanted nothing to do with me, sounds like she getting her act together? maybe?

I know this sounds crazy but I'm nervous because as you see I haven't had a personal conversation with her since April and I just posted above what would cause me to open the doors to her again and behold she sends me an email wanting my opinion what church should she attend, I guess you have to watch what you ask for. If she's asking me where she should go I assume there's no OM? or maybe he's on his way out? Surely she wouldn't be so low to ask me where her and OM should go to church? Like I said the one she had in May gave the appearance of a thug.

I felt bad months ago because of all the LB'ing I did in the past, but who knows how you will react when cheated on several times, its new territory. I thought she would never cherish anything I would ever have to say again or value my opinion.

Maybe this is a beginning of a new era? Maybe I could be reading into it more than what it is? If you remember what I said about my counseling session from 2001, the counselor said she see's me as a flashlight in a dark room that could always point her in the right direction and she knows it, but will never say that to me, I guess he's proving to be right.

I'll keep you posted.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/15/02 07:00 PM
Just an update,

I asked exw to call me so we can talk about where she wants to go to church and about D's b-day gift. Exw said she was going to call me tonight to talk about it but said:

Her:

Okay... I'll call tonight. But can we just keep it on a friendship level?...

end
*****
I just wonder if this is back to my old theory, Me the anchor for security, OM pleasure. Who knows I hope her asking about church is not a lure to open the door wide again, maybe she's not planning to attend church at all? I need to take it slow, she's always pressed me to be friends while she had OM. As I always said at one point her offer of friendship was only so she could ease her OM in the picture and slowly bring up his name to get me to accept her decision, I wonder if I'm being setup.

I tried to move on and let her go, but she seems to always want to be friends. I love her but I don't want to get hurt again either. As I said she knows how to ease her way into my heart, she done it for 21 years, she's a pro with me.

Ok I know I sparked this when hanging up on the phone a couple weeks ago, I simply said " I'm here if you need me" another time, I said " I love You". So I guess I gave her the signal...I hope all this is a good turn out, see what nice words do, she's only responding to my goodbye's on the phone. We're 1,200 miles away, she drank what I said.

Prov 25:

As cold waters to a thirsty soul, so is good news from a far country.

Take Care....
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/15/02 07:14 PM
Hi All,
Dave...
Thanks for the compliment.
My court date is Oct 22nd., so I'm a week away from the final court date.
I have to agree with you... happiness has to come from within. If you can't make yourself happy... your not going to do anyone else any good as far as achieving happiness for either yourself or them.
I think sending a letter stating that you are ending your friendship to your ex-friend is a great idea.
By doing so, I believe that you and your wife are communicating to each other that you both want your marriage to work.
Keep up the good work!
relady...
I think a vacation is most definitely in order... I know I could sure use one... hope you have fun.
You are running the same pattern as I with the no contact... I do believe it is less painful. I wouldn't have it any other way.
I'm not sure if my OD is calling anymore or not. My YD hasn't said anything lately about her calling. I know she has mail at home, I'll have to check to see if she picked it up.
My OD is pretty stubborn... not sure if she got that from me or my STBXW... but I know she will hold out till the bitter end before she calls me.
My OD is pretty good at adapting to whatever situation she is confronted with, so it will get interesting.
I like what you said "I have a hands off policy". I have been running in that mode as well. I think that's a good attitude to have.
EC...
I've got a little more to go than a few hours before I'm a single man, but it is fast approaching. Hope things are going well for you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/15/02 09:38 PM
EC,
You got your last set of posts in before I finished with my first one for the day. It's been busy at work today, so it took me a little longer than usual to finish typing my post.
Just a quick question... why do you think she said, "okay I'll call tonight, but can we keep it on a friendship level"?
As I recall, she has been trying for quite some time now to get you to accept her situation that she has going on with the "OM" and still have you be her friend.
I know having verbal communication with your ex after all this time is a major do all in of itself. I can understand your excitement... I would probably be excited if I was in your position as well But you need to be very careful EC. I know that you still love her very much, but you need to stay very guarded at this point and protect yourself from any additional pain. It's hard not to get your hopes up and then watch them be dashed, all in one fell swoop.
I won't sugar coat it... I'm not hearing anything any different as of yet coming from her.
I would somehow try to find out if the "OM" is still in the picture, and then proceed with caution.
The only reason why I say this is because of that one question that she asked you.
It does sound like she is starting to come to her senses somewhat, but you need to make sure they what she is saying is for real.
I don't need to tell you how to proceed... you have that already under control. Just be careful about getting your hopes up to high for the moment.
I pray that she is for real this time EC, and she is not just trying to have her cake and eat it to.
You would be foolish not to at least see if there is any kind of possibility that she might be for real this time.
Take it nice and easy, and don't leave yourself open for anymore disappointments.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/15/02 10:40 PM
Hi Wallace thanks for the advice, at this point I don't know what to think but I guess I'll find out tonight, I'm sure she's excited to talk because she knows I always applauded her and made her feel good when we were married, I'm sure thats one thing she misses and also someone to listen to her and understand her, I'm sure OM's have treated her like dirt. I find it interesting, If things are so good being divorced why does she keep pressing me to be friends its apparent she's not finding what she was looking for out there and believe me she's had many and probably still has many.

If she's serious about going to church I'll know. I find it strange that she is trusting me to tell her what to do? maybe? we'll see.

As you said this could be another way of the cake eater approach for her. I will be careful, she's clever, I told her in the past I was done with her and the only way I would ever associate myself with her after OM threaten to kill me is that she would have to get the Lord back in her life otherwise it was just hi and bye and give me updates on my D's when neccessary, so I hope she's not using the word 'church' to get back in my territory but that she is seriously trying to get it together.

She said happy b-day last week. Our what would have been 19th anniversary is coming up in 3 1/2 weeks this will be odd, last year we weren't talking but I sent her a card anyway.

Its funny but I'll bet she is still carring that card around with her everyday, as you remember I made that secret discovery how she was doing that in the past months after d-day carrying around cards along with bills I gave her weeks prior. I think I could send her a card today and she'll carry it around everyday.

She always gives the that strong appearance I'm fine I don't need you but behind the scene she's wanting to talk to me, she is slowly coming out of the fog and I know she has a lot of guilt but deception is still their too,...So I'll keep you posted what happens tonight.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/16/02 12:31 AM
EC,
Although I am a novice at this (3 months) I ditto what Wallace said. First and formost you must guard your heart and your mind. Remember the enemy hears your words too and he would like nothing more than to see you back at square one with the pain.

In your time with the Lord, ask Him What is real about your situation and wait until He answers before you make a move. You should not be confused. If you are, it is not from God. He is not the author of confusion. I have a rule, If I am confused or if everything seems out of place, I do nothing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

One thing I am learning from all of this is patience, and believe me, it is a hard lesson.

Lean not to your own understanding, you will never be able to figure your EXW out. The fact that she is asking about a church is good. Make sure it is a bible believing church where the Pastor, Priest, etc. is not afraid to mention adultery for fear of loosing the money from the congregation! There are some wimps in the pulpit! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless You,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/16/02 12:43 AM
EC
I was going to respond earlier but I didn't want to sound too negative since I don't know you that well. I totally agree with Wallace. (He's so smart!) I'd hate for you to get hurt again by reading more into your exW's response than you should have. So taking it slow would be the key phrase here. This is a great chance to show her any positive changes you've made in your life.

I think my H wants to be friends to ease his conscience. He won't feel quite as guilty if I am his friend, and he could even twist that fact in his mind to read that I condone or agree with all that he's done. Therefore, I am careful when we interact. Not too friendly, but more compassion instead of love. That reflects how I feel these days anyway, so it's not too hard.

I'm looking forward to what you have to report. I know you're nervous and I just finished praying for you a little while ago. Looks like relady was writing you at the same time!

<small>[ October 15, 2002, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/16/02 05:02 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I was not trying to make fun of your H's attraction with the classical star. I was just making the point that he was in a fantasy. This classical person is no better than you. Once the gloss wears off, your H will know that he had alot in you. I apologize with I came across wrong.

EC: Once again be careful, you have to protect yourself. It's nice that she wants to go back to church, but she must be accountable for her actions. Is the OP still around?

Relady: Cruise!!! I'm ready, LETS GO. Just kidding, I love cruises. Where are you going? This will releave alot of pressure. Good job.

Dave: Glad everything is going well. Biker will have some explaining to do after his w inquires about the letter.

Wallace: One more week. Happiness will be yours. Your next relationship will be serious and heavy. Take it slow.

Me: Wife does have an attorney. We are going to court Nov. 7th. She owes me close to $1,500 not counting attorney fees. I intend on combining the cases come hell or high water. I want this anchor of my back. Kid has started with new teacher, and she appears to be cracking the wipe. On Monday, kid had an episode where he cried in class that he missed me, etc. Kid had the same episode yesterday. His counselor told me that was a good sign for me. Wifey did not like because she accused me of doing something to cause this. Go figure.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/16/02 10:47 AM
Petvet , No apology needed, I didn't take what you said in a negative way at all. I appreciate all opinions and comments on my situation! And in forums like this, we all realize it's difficult to give all the details of the facts. So don't worry, I hadn't even thought anything strange until you wrote your last post.

Relady, Petvet has the right idea about crashing your cruise party <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL , jk. I've never been on a cruise and I know you're gonna have a great time. It will give you something wonderful to look forward to and look back on later. Surely you're not going alone - with friends? family?

Wallace , are you planning on doing anything special after you sign the papers? Go out with friends, etc? As much as you're glad it will be done with, how emotional do you think it might be? Don't get down in the dumps alone. Your new lady friend will be a good support.

RMA , so now Wallace has a "lady friend" and you have a "guy friend". How terminology changes as one gets older. How are things with you?

EC , how did it go with your exW last night? We're waiting for a report <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Catch everyone else later...

<small>[ October 16, 2002, 05:48 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/16/02 03:07 PM
Hello Guys and Gals,

Ok here's the scoop,

Exw calls we talk for 3 1/2 hours so I can only give you a snapshot of the conversation.For me it was 9p to 12:30a, her 10p to 1:30a, so I'm dragging a little..back up at 5:30a

The conversation starts off about D's b-day gift what we can buy her and this what D really wants. Then we start talking about D's and what they're up to school and college stuff.

Then we get into what I been up to. Then we get into what she's been up to. I probably spent 2 hours listening to her on that topic. Then she starts talking about 2 churches she been attending but cannot make up her mind which one to join. She said she was getting her hair done oneday and heard these women talking about this great church so she went to check it out so she seem to be torn between the two. I told her I didn't know which one to attend but go where you think you can grow in the word and she agreed, so we'll see what happens their.

She sounded very humble and not the so I'm glad to be away from you attituded, I think she has come 3/4 of the way out of the fog. She reminded me of the old her with some added experience to herself. She's been brought back to reality but not all there yet. I asked how long ago did you make your journey back to the Lord, she said, Oh, I never left. I ask her if she was happy she said yes, I said great, I said you deserve it.

She said she's considering moving to other states, doing business here and there, travling here or there......It was so much unstability. I found out she's been in contact with old friends in my city, people fron highschool 20 years ago, guys and gals. I was surprised. I can tell in talking to her she's considered and weighed moving here but has her reasons why she wouldn't are mostly weather related hot V cold, she said an offer of a lot of money would change her mind to move from FL.

She said she was burden down by family stuff from brothers they seem to be flipping out with issues.

She tells me she has this big network of business friends I said good for you and mentions people by name. She then says she has a guy she's dating, I said nothing and acted like I didn't care, she said where he's from and talked about his family, I said nothing, just listen....She didn't mention his name and I didn't ask. I changed subjects.

I told her based on all the things she wants to do she's going to need a place for her roots to go down and settle, she flared a little and said NO!, you don't know my future and don't tell me where you think I'll be, she said she was a moving person and can't stay in the same place too long, I said thats fine, then she said and I'm not coming back where you are either. I said I didn't ask you to but things can happen you know. She said because of how she was raised she's not like me where I can settle in a city for years, she said she was always on the move growing up. Now this she's said because her father was in the military of course he was out of her life when she was 3 years old?. My thoughts were no, you moved around because your mother married 7 times and your dad 5 but I didn't go there. I said life is what you make it no matter where you go and she said she's had enough of FL and Disney W, Mickey Mouse she's been from one end of the state to the other and ready for something new.

Well the conversation closed after 3 1/2 hours of listening to her, as I told you she loves for me to hear her. I tell her I'm her if you need me and love you, she said , Yes I know. When she said , yes I know, it reminded me of the whole course of times while she was in the affairs I would say, I love you, she would just say , yes I know, but would never say I love you back in return, but yet it was all walled up inside her, she would fight it because of the anger she had. I sensed there's something there in her towards me some love feelings, how much or what I don't know, but to talk to me that long and then said she going to call me again this weekend , I don't know what to think. I remember even our last counseling session in 2001, she cried in my arms after telling me all the things she loved about me and knew the affairs were wrong, we get in the parking lot, I say I love you, she said, yes I know, so last night reminded me of the same thing, Its like she wants to say it but if she does, it would mean she gave into what she feels, maybe?

So here it is I don't know what to think, is relationship with OM really all that great and stable?,I know she is single now and can do what she wants, but one minute she's talking about moving here and there, the next minute talking about a dating relationship with OM, next business things that require stability of incorporation and taxes, etc....but she's ready to bounce around the country? If I ever said I was dating someone it would crush her, I can tell she is still attached to me somewhat, if another woman stepped in it would floor her. Its not going as great as she's making it sound that I do know. I marvel at that out of all the guys she's meet and connections she has now, she still wants be friends with me talk long like this, my last conversation with her on a personal level was in April and that lasted 4 hours, that I don't understand. I really didn't get into the us stuff, it was all about her mostly. In testing the waters I can tell I'll never talk about what she did to us, she's not ready yet and at this point its a waste of time and negative energy, she's not apologetic about the affairs, oh she sorry for not getting papers in the mail, I guess that needs more sympathy. It would take me back a couple of years bringing up the past. I told her I said some of things in the past because I was hurt, she said yes I know, I said I was starting to heal now she said yes, you are.

Haven't seen her in over a year, its been 2 years ago when A's started, dv'd for 5 months now , seperated for 20 months, its amazing what times does.

So there you have it folks...


Take Care.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/16/02 07:14 PM
Hi All,
EC...
I'll give you my take on this, and this is just my opinion.
Your exW is still out looking for something that she will probably not ever find.
She is looking for someone that is just like you!
She has not completely detached from you IMHO... nor do I think she wants to... and if she has been keeping the cards you sent to her with her this whole time... well I think you get the idea.
She is going hither and fro looking for something or someone she will never find... that's why she doesn't want to stay in one place for any long periods of time... she's still searching.
I have to agree with you, she probably is not very happy.
Pardon the expression but this is going to be a tough nut to crack. I think timing will be everything on this. I would keep doing what you are doing with no "LBs". I think you are on the right track with the way you are handling this so far.
Patience is going to be in order as well, because I feel this is going to take an extended amount of time for her to finally come to the realization that you can't be replaced.
Let her find her Church, and start walking with the Lord... her actions will speak volumes as to having any sort of a reconciliation. Only then will you have any chance for any meaningful recovery.
Try to stay in touch with her, but don't pursue her... let her initiate the communication between the two of you. It's going to take some time, but it is workable.
One more thing... keep your guard up at all times.
Petvet...
I know the feeling about having that anchor strapped to your back... it does get heavy.
I understand what you are feeling, and why you want to just, "get it all over with".
You reach that stage as things start dragging out, be it good, bad, or indifferent.
Why does your wife think that the situation with your son is all your fault?
Well I hope your son is doing better at school since they changed his class.
Hang in there, the fun is not over with yet.
relady...
With everything going on, you do learn patience. I never realized how much of it was going to be needed until all of this wonderfulness started up.
I as well have had to lean on the Lord quite a bit through all of this... without him at my side, I would of never made it as far as I have.
By the way, there is wimps in the pulpit in some Churchs... how right you are.
Have you heard anything at all from your "H" yet?
It's a shame that you are following in my footsteps (no contact) in that area.
It's bad enough, having to live with what they have done, but it's like adding insult to injury when they continue to act in the fashion that they do.
You have it right... put it in the Lords hands and all else will follow.
Avondale...
I agree with what you stated concerning your situation.
Your "H" wants to be friends with you (very similiar as EC) to lessen his guilt, shame, etc... he wants acceptance from you in spite of what he has done.
I think you are handling it very, very, well... and you are conducting yourself in a very postive manner as you deal with what is going on.
Stay the course!
RMA...
We could sure use your words of wisdom. I hope everything is going well for you.
Let us know how you are doing when you get a chance.
Dave...
Did you deliver the letter yet? I wouldn't want to be your ex-friend when he has to start explaining what that letter is all about.
Me...
My attorney called me this morning... he wasn't to optomistic.
If I haven't paid my STBXW enough already... it appears that I'm going to have to pay her quite a bit more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
It's a sad state of affairs when a spouse can go out and do the things they do, and then turn around and get IMHO rewarded for all the damage that they have done... it's just not fair.
My OD stopped by the house while I was at work and picked up her mail. She spoke with my son only breifly... so nothing really new on that front. She hasn't tried to contact me, so I'm sure I'm in it for the long haul.
On the day of my final court date... I'm not sure what I'm going to do after it is all said and done with. I haven't made any definite plans.
I'll probably spend the day and evening with my son and daughter,and call my "lady friend" to let her know how things went. I'm going to keep it very low key.
Hope everyone has a good day!
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/16/02 08:33 PM
EC
You are a strong person to listen to her for 3 hours straight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . In doing that, you showed her you care for her as much as any words could have said. I agree with Wallace (again, LOL). It sounds like she still hasn't "gotten real" with herself about some things (like moving around, yet wanting a business, for instance). But you provided good support and I hope it didn't cost you too much emotionally. We can pray that if she settles into a church, it will be one that God could use to bring maturity into all areas of her life. All in all, it sounded like you handled yourself WONDERFULLY!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/16/02 09:31 PM
Hi Wallace thats a good analogy, "she looking for someone like me", I never thought of that? Maybe sweet daddy wasn't so bad after all? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am keeping my guard up and yes I should start to let her come my way and not pursue or chase, I think after last night I'm sure she's probably puzzled, I made no war with her. I think also she's been doing damage control, I think she has been contacting several people she knows here in my city talking to them probably in case she wants to come here to visit or live...making herself look good after A's, it spread like wildfire when people found out.I would say too she don't want me out of her life but she says we need to talk for the kids sake. This will be interesting once she joins church I think she's going to really get it together then, she knows her bible well and I can tell God has been drawing and speaking to her. She told me a movie to go see for some laughs and said oh, you'll enjoy it, its not vulgar or has any severe cussing in it, I was amazed she was concerned about any moral standard. That was a change, she said during A's I wasn't dirty enough, wouldn't get into porn, said she didn't want no christian husband, hmmmm? We'll see when equally yoked time comes weather it be me or someone else.

Avondale, It wasn't an emotional drain, she don't know it but thats what one of her main emotional needs are "Conversation" she don't know I know that. She also likes recreation and spending quality time with her....So I met those for many years but got careless, but also she didn't study to meet my needs either. She still could careless and she still has no clue today what a man needs. One of her greatest complaints in counseling was, "you didn't spend time with me and go here or there with me or hold my hand in public"....So these long conversations is what I spent my life doing with her, its a natural for me, she knows it, so as you see this is why I was so hurt about A's because we spent endless hours like this talking over the years, then she gives that attention like this to someone else along with sexual content. We spent every Sat morning talking just like this, I would just listen but give no answers just a bent ear....I carried a lot of her burdens because of that, seeing she's burden down now, what real joy does OM has with her? I wonder if he listens to her? it appears not, maybe I was an outlet for her.

Take Care..
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/16/02 10:24 PM
EC,

You really are patient <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> To listen to your WS for three hours and basically talk about herself!
You did a great job, the key is did she notice that she was only concerned with herself?

I'll said again, just guard your heart, one small slip and it could send you back. I think I would limit my conversation with her, believe me she knows how to reel you in! And you know if you hang around the edge long enough, you will fall in! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

All

I will be cruising to Mexico, Cabo, Cancun, etc. It was a great deal, under 600 for last minute travel, 7 days. I'm going with several friends. Leaving on Friday from Los Angeles if you care to 'crash' my cruise, you're all welcome. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace,

No, I have not heard from my H since he left 3 months ago. Maybe I never will until he or I decide to file. I continue to pray for him daily.
If he was truly my husband sent by God, then God is the only one that can change him, and return him, after all he made him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> He knows him better than I do. I can only work on me at this point.

I admire the fact that you waited until your divorce was almost final before you dated. Being separated, is a very vulnerable time as I am finding out. You almost want to go home with anyone who says a kind word! And believe me there are a lot of men and women out there who prey on BSs' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Hope all is well with everyone.

God Bless You,
relady
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/16/02 11:13 PM
To all, don't have much time - company is here. But, wanted you all to know i have read all the posts and am current. Want to spend my limited time addressing EC.

EC,

Honestly, your post concerns me, because I am conflicted on what to say to you. I personally know several couples, and have seen the same on this board - divorced couples who can't seem to totally disconnect from each other. The bothersome part to me is this in a nutshell: your exW is still letting you meet too many EN's for her. You are willingly doing this because it still meets ENs for you, to have even this peripheral relationship with her. This could go on forever, EC. No real commitments to you from her. Also, I can just "hear" it in your post - you "read" some sort of hope into everything she says or emails to you. My concern is that you will never truly be able to move forward in your own life because you will always still be "waiting" for her. I see that she wants to continue to lean on you for many things, but I do NOT see that she wants to come back and be a stable, monogomous partner to you.

My advice is this. Look, perhaps there IS something here. Perhaps her reaching out to you DOES mean something. You need to get a couple counselling sessions lined up with the Harleys and get some professional advice here. Should you be interacting with her on this sort of level or not??? You don't want to be her emotional crutch for life, without regard for you. If there is a possibility of winning her back, let Steve show you the way. If he doesn't "see" it, then let him guide you on to emotional independence.

This is something you need to do for YOU. You deserve someone who loves and cares about you.

God bless you, EC.

RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/17/02 11:12 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: Thanks.

Relady: Enjoy the fun and sun. I loved Mexico minus the noisy countryman following me around like I was a spy. I loved the clear ocean. Oh! be careful not to walk onto one of those beaches where the Europeans are. They like to shed their clothing if you know what I mean.

Wallace: What do you mean that you are going to have to lay out alot of duds to your w? Wothout getting to personal, bottom line it for me. I'm not happy with this news. Do you have a pitbull for an attorney? What does your w owe you and
your kids? You need to ask some hard questions to your attorney. Ask whether the judge will actually go this way.

EC: I'm very concern with you. It is torture hearing your description of the phone conversation. You are not doing yourself any good opening yourself up to your ex like this. At some point, you have to move forward. I agree with RMA; you need to consult a counselor for feedback. I'm afraid that you are opening yourself up to get hurt again. Unless you put a stop to it, your ex will continue leaning on you. Be careful.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/17/02 03:51 PM
EC, I agree with RMA... seems this could go on forever.... I would try letting go, that does
not mean giving up or moving on.. but is the first step and I think you need to do that
for yourself. In "letting go" sometimes this forces the WS into more reality and they do come back but either way it is a first step in healing the wounds.

Wallace, sorry to here about the $.... I had to pay CS and alimony...yet she was the one that
left and had the A, go figure... I mailed the letter yesterday, not sure who is going to open it, I addressed it to both of them.. I would guess that she would get the mail as she is a stay home mom but either way the message is going to get there tomorrow. Here is the letter:

Dear Steve & Kelly,

We find it very difficult to write this letter to you as is causes all of us a great deal of pain, but we felt that we must be honest with you.
Because certain boundaries have been broken between Steve and Lynn, we both feel that it is the best interest of our marriage to
terminate our friendship. We do not wish to discuss the details of the events that have happened in the past as we can not change
what has already been done, but as we try to rebuild our marriage we must make some difficult decisions that are in the best
interest of us having a successful marriage and this in one of them.

We do wish both of you the best of luck in your marriage and hope that you too can also work out any problems that may exist or
existed in your relationship that lead to this event.

Dave & Lynn

Relady: Enjoy your vacation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/17/02 03:52 PM
Hi All,
relady...
I would love to come down and crash your cruise, but I have a divorce to deal with that week.
I'm looking at taking a vacation somewhere in the the not to distant future... just as soon as I see where I land after this "D".
I agree with your statement that there is a lot of people out there that prey on BSs.
I will probably go out on my first, "official" date next Friday... so I'm looking forward to that. Taking it very slow and mythodical.
Petvet...
My STBXW is in arrears for approx. $6,000.00 and counting in CS, not counting all of the money she stole, forged checks and forged credit card purchases.
This is not counting any future CS payments and tuition payments that she would be responsible for... and since she doesn't pay any of her bills... I will have to find her, and then drag her into court on a monthly basis to get her to pay her share which I'm not very happy about.
In addition my attorneys think I'm going to have to pay her a yet to be determined amount of money that could be quite significant. I don't know the amount yet... because they are still hammering away at it to get it as low as possible... but it doesn't look good.
So, that is a major concern of mine come this Tuesday.
Hope everyone has a good day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/17/02 06:57 PM
Hello All,

Thanks for all the feedback, I will consider it all, I will be very careful. I ask myself how do I feel a few days later? Well after pondering on the conversation and looking I find myself somewhat carrying her burdens for her again. Seeing that she is dating someone and yet still wants me there, it would be wise for me to set some boundries as well, just as she mention keep it on a friendship level, I now need to define my definition what friend means in relating to her. I have no problem with other females in keeping things where they need to be but exw knows how to seduce me, she may not know my emotional needs by definition but she knows how to win me to her side with stubtle actions. She studied me for years. I'm not saying im weak and can't resist her and move on, she's not a ugly woman.

If you been together for 21 years and had arguments over time and needed to get the spouse on your side again, shes a pro.

Talking to her has helped me forgive her a little more for my sake, its not all about meeting my love needs right now, its just feels nice that the one who betrayed you wants to talk, who also rejected you, they rejected you and now they're asking a question regarding a place to serve the Lord, agreeing with her in where to worship the Lord is a good validation, anything else I will step back from and set boundries for my emotional sake. I do need to limit my conversation time for now, she's getting cake and icecream.

I do understand about the endless cycle of hoping for a relationship and never letting go and that is a dangerous emotional position to be in.

She's a book reader and I remember earlier this year she told me she has a book about divorce the name I don't know. She could be applying these prinicples to me, It could be called "divorce as friends" I don't know? I could be reading the wrong message into what she is wanting from me, she wants friendship, my thoughts are possible restoration.

Another thing I guess I need to look at also she is seriously trying to get her brother to move from here to down there, I guess thats a clue she's in for the long haul there.

Take Care
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/17/02 07:46 PM
EC, I think that ultimately you may be able to be friends with your EX, assuming that is what you want to do, but I know atleast for me, it would be impossible to try to keep it to a friendship level until you have let go, given up, and maybe even moved on, it would just
be too painful. I don't think you are at that point where you need to make that decsion, I know you are still holding out hope that things could be worked out in the future.. but I still think
you need to let go.. it is the first logical step in either direction and will give you some
space to heal.

Let Go
| |
Give
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/17/02 07:53 PM
Let
Go
/ \
Give Allow WS
Up space, BS begin
/ to heal
Move \
On Potential recovery

I was trying to make a little diagram in the last post but hit add reply too fast....
My point was they wither you choose to give up and move on OR continue to
try to reconcile, at this point in time I think that Letting Go is still the
first step... it gives you the time and space to start healing and will allow your
X time and space to realize that she misses you and that she is not going to find
the perfect person (ie come out of the fog), and for you to stop meeting some of
her ENs.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/17/02 07:57 PM
okay, so I can't get me little diagram to work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/17/02 09:53 PM
Hmmmm Dave , did you mean this?

Let
Go
/ \
Give up, allow WS space
BS begin to heal
/ \
Move on to potential recovery

(Do it in word processing program first. But I may have mixed up your words, LOL) Your letter was good...How much of that was worded by your wife?

Wallace, that's a lot of money! It seems kind of paradoxical, she owes you so much in back CS yet you're going to have to pay HER something additional that is "significant"? I'm sure there is more involved than what I'm aware of, but that doesn't sound right to me. Maybe it's the laws of your state? Do you feel confident in your lawyer? I'm sorry this is such a mess for you.

<small>[ October 17, 2002, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/18/02 01:37 PM
Hello Everyone, well it's good ol' friday don't know what I'm going to get into tonight.

Haven't talk to exw since earlier this week. My OD has a email address now so I get to converse with her on a more personal level often.

Regarding moving on and healing that I need to continue doing, I didn't like what I felt later after talking to exw when she started talking about OM, she took me back to the past... . I've been told by exw's female friends who know her who she avoids since her A's said oneday if she ever found out I had a GF or dating partner she would take the first flight to where I live to find out what's going on. They said her thing is as long as I stay single and female free it shows she made the right decision and nobody wants me but if another woman wants me then she realizes someone else thinks I'm attractive and they're happy with me while she gave me up looking for something else. They said she shows she don't care on the outside but said it would eat her up, I'm her partial security.

So sometimes I find it hard to move in that area thinking she may return to invade my new relationship should I get into one, while I do hope she recovers, I can't put my life on hold for the next 2-3 years waiting on her either.

But I am defining what friend means in dealing with her.

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/18/02 04:06 PM
Hi All,
EC...
RMA gave you some very good advice... she has a way of putting things into perspective and seeing things that I for one over look.
Looking at what you just said, I think you need to move forward as well... for yourself not anyone else.
As hard as it may seem to let go... once you do... "life does start to get better".
I know I heard those words here many times, of course I wasn't experiencing any of it... becuase I wasn't letting go. So I was having a hard time seeing it. But once I did decide to let go completely... it did get better.
Put it in the hands of the Lord, and let him lead your path. Who knows, once your exW sees you moving on with your life, she may start to get her life in order... only time will tell.
Dave...
Just wanted to say that I thought your letter was very well done. I still wouldn't want to be your ex-friend trying to explain that scenario.
You are absolutely right about having to pay for the damage they have done.
I got a kick out of you trying to post that diagram... that was good... LOL
Hope everything is going well for you and your wife.
Avondale...
How do I best explain this mess I have going.
I think it boils down to the fact that I may have too many assets that still need to get divided up equally. In spite of all the damage that my STBXW has done to me financially.
The Judge may give her even more after deducting all that she has taken and owes. I have a telephone conference with my attorney today at 2:00 p.m. to go over everything, and at that point I will probably have bottom line numbers in which to work with.
Walking in with no agreement is just killing me, and even if she is not there, the Judge can rule anyway he so chooses. It is going to be a crap shoot make no mistake about it.
As hard as it is for me to believe, she will more than likely walk away with a good chunk of change after they split the assets vs. debt ratio.
Petvet...
My number is coming up in 4 days, and your not that far behind me. I'm sorry that you ended up in your situation, I was hoping that you would of had a better outcome.
No matter what happens my friend you will come out of it a better person after it is all said and done with... hang in there.
RMA...
Thank you for being there... I hope everything is going well for you.
By the way, do you have any veggies left from your garden?
relady...
Anything new on your end? Let us know how you are making out.
I hope everyone has a good Friday!
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/18/02 07:39 PM
Wallace thanks for the info as you said before you posted it was just your "IMHO" so thats why we post to get other views on the subjects and sometimes another person can have there highbeams on and focused at times when we're just crusin with our hair blowing in the wind.....

You know as I was thinking of all the contacts she's making while she has her BF and you know, I had to stop and think, she's not potentially cheating on me any further, its over I had to think about that, she most likely will cheat on him if not already with all the contacts she's making with all these guys, hmmmm? New guys coming in her life while she has BF? Thats something he will have to deal with, not me, I guess moving on does help, if I don't move on I'll have to deal with it which I rather not.

She told me she contacted old classmates on a classmate site, I went to see what she was talking about, I've seen advertisement but really didn't care about seeing old classmates, some turned my stomach 20 years, I don't need a another turning 20 years later, I see many around town that I like, Well I get to the site, of course who did I see? Her exw!, she posted her picture up and said please contact me I want hear from you....Nothing wrong with that but she's looking for somebody to sow some wild oats with in her state of mind..

Thanks guys and gals for all your replies, being on Petvet's "Tough Love Thread" is like being with the Generals!!

Take Care..
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/18/02 09:22 PM
Hi EC,
I think you are starting to get the picture.
Why on earth would you want to become part of what your exW has going on... especially now.
You don't need that in your life. You need to start looking after yourself, take care of yourself... begin healing, and allow yourself to move forward.
She isn't cheating on you anymore... you guys are not M anymore. Let some one else deal with what she has to offer. Who in their right mind would want to live with what you described.
It will all catch up with her in time.
Her actions speak much louder than words.
Let her go... and if by chance someday she finds herself and starts walking with the Lord... then and only then (if you haven't moved on already yourself) would I even think about taking or wanting her back.
You deserve much better... be good to yourself. Lean on the Lord and have him direct your path.
It's a hard road to travel, but it gets easier as you continue your journey.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ October 18, 2002, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/19/02 05:15 AM
Hi all!

EC: I think you have gotten the message now. Move your attention elsewhere.

Wallace: Now I get it. I figured you must have a lot of assets divie up. Listen to this! I'm not an attorney, but listen to this argument to the judge. Judge, I understand that mt w and I have alot of assets; however, due to my w's lack of dependability and stability, any CS and tuition help is doubtful without incurring further attorney fees and lost wages on my part. I think that I should maintain large percentage ot my assets since my kids only have me to depend on financially. I will probably have to sell assets in order to maintain my kids standard of living and college tuition. Also, if you were ever to die, your kids would need those assets to live on and maintain their standard of living. YOU MUST FIGHT TOOTH AND NAILS FOR YOUR ASSETS. THIS WILL BE YOUR ONLY CHANCE. This may be what your w is waiting on. MAKE SURE YOUR ATTORNEYS UNDERSTAND THIS.

Dave: Someone is either on their hands and knees right about now begging for forgiveness or someone is lying their ---- off. I'm happy that you and your w are on the same page. Things continue to look good.

Avondale: How are things going with you?

Me: Less than three weeks and counting. W has been calling everynight now to speak to son. Whenever we talk, I keep the conversation very short and business.

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/19/02 03:17 PM
To all, I am pressed for time, again. I wish I could answer all of you, and will do my best to do so soon.

EC,

Here is something to think about. Try to distinguish between being "friends" and being "friendly". I think it is healthy and good to get to the point where you can continue to be friendly with your ex-spouse. A whole lot of hurt goes on during an affair and a divorce. It is a mature thing for both parties to be able to get to a friendly level after all of that has occured. Yet, I for one, don't see a need for ex-spouses to be big "friends". Maybe it works for some, but IN GENERAL, I don't think it works best for both parties to try to be friends right off the divorce.

To me, being a friend means that you will expend time and emotional energy on each other. EC, that is exactly what is happening in your case. You are spending precious emotional energy on your exW, that is needed for your own healing. You need to be spending your efforts on building a happy and fulfilling new life for yourself. It is hard, because you were forced out of a life that was once happy and fulfilling for you, and then it was taken away from you.

Yes, EC, I think it is good to be friendly and converse on a few matters. But hours of conversation just get you sucked back into an emotional relationship with her that is one-sided. It prevents you from "seeing" that she only wants from you what SHE wants. It is not about 2 people putting effort into building a relationship. I continue to think your exW just wants to keep you in the game. She really doesn't want to be in a monogamous relationship with you, but she isn't ready to 100% let you go either.

In my own case, I used to think that it was quite significant that my then H couldn't file for the divorce. I used to think it "meant" something. In my heart, I convinced myself it meant he continued to love and care about me, even though he was gone and was "loving" someone else. It took me an awful long time to realize what it meant - he was just being selfish and wanted to keep me in the game. Truly, that was all it meant.

I believe this next statement with all of my heart: If your ex-spouse realizes at some point in the future that he/she made a huge mistake and they want to try to get back with you - then he/she will come back around and he/she will knock themselves out silly trying to PROVE to you what a terrible mistake they made and that you are the ONLY person they love. ANYTHING LESS THAN THIS IS JUST MORE OF THE SAME OLD, SAME OLD!!

My heart goes out to you, EC. It is HARD to give up your hopes and dreams for the family you had and loved. Look, it isn't that you have to run out and try to get a girlfriend. That is not what "moving on" is about. It is about opening your heart and your life to other possibilities that will allow a sense of peace and happiness to come to you. YOU desrve that!!

God bless each of you here. Luv to you all, RMA
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/19/02 08:06 PM
RMA
Thanks for making such a distinction between "being friends" and "being friendly". I needed to hear it for myself, so I'm glad you said it for EC. It also applies to the way I'm relating to my H when we speak. He wants to be friends, but I don't agree with that (going from a wife of 25 yrs to friends is not where i'm at). However, I can now be friendly. Three months ago I couldn't say that, though. I think what you've wrote is a good reminder that a lot of people (maybe not on this thread) need to hear.

<small>[ October 19, 2002, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/21/02 12:50 AM
HI Everyone,It's Sunday night, not sure if anyone is on,just wanted to say hi.. Wallace, I will be
praying for you all week as your big day approaches... stay strong..
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/21/02 12:22 PM
Hi all!

RMA: You are absolutely too GOOD. Your destinction between friendly and friends will help many people including myself. As Avondale said, it's hard for one to go from a committed marriage to friends. Along with her, I cannot go there. EC, I hope you understood what RMA was saying. Don't waste anymore emotional assets on your ex. As RMA said, if she wants you back, she will break down walls trying to get you. My w is trying to keep me in the game, but I am staying steadfast to being short and business with her.

Wallace: I'm thinking about you. I wish you well, tommorrow.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/21/02 03:28 PM
Hi Everyone,
I would like to thank everyone for their support for me tommorrow.

I have to be at the Court house @ 7:00 a.m. to go over everything with the attorney prior to going into the Court room.

Thank you Petvet for the advice... It does have to do with dividing up quite a bit in assets. I like what you said, and I believe my attorney is going to present that point to the Judge. Thanks again for the advice.

Well to put it all into perspective... I never in my wildest dreams would of thought I would be getting a divorce. I took my vows very seriously. But life has a way of taking twists and turns along the way. Unfortunately myself and my children were in the line of fire concerning this situation.

I am going to type in my signature line... probably for this one time... it's too long to run with as a sig line. Plus it's too confusing to make any sense of unless you lived the nightmare.

Ec... you have got some great advice, it's probably time you take a look at it,and try to build from there.
If your exW wants you back, she will in fact do everything in her power to win your favor back.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

BS-me 49
WW 42
M 2/24/79 23 yrs.
3 children OS23 OD19 YD16
WW leaves numerous times over the last 3 yrs. of our marriage. evidently was having numerous affairs with numerous people during this time.
Numerous reconcilitations over the last 3 yrs. wasn't sure if she was truly having an A, but suspected.
WW became pregnant by OM, not sure by which OM, there were too many to keep track of
WW has abortion 2/15/02 without my knowledge... didn't even know she was pregnant.
D-Day 4/19/02 suspected prior to that, but not enough hard evidence.
I Filed for "D" Oct 27, 2001 I had had enough.
Last attempt at R 12/18/01 to 4/19/02
No contact with WW since 4/19/02
D final on 10/22/02

<small>[ October 21, 2002, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/21/02 03:43 PM
DOUBLE POST!

<small>[ October 21, 2002, 10:44 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/21/02 04:12 PM
Hello Everyone,

What great advice, at this point to move away from the issues feels better than trying to move into a warzone of emotions with her. I agree to be friendly is better than to be friends at this point. I think that is true that if she ever wanted me back she will do everything in her power to get me back otherwise I'll be chasing her and she will still have her crowds of people among her. When and if she was ever ready to put things back together she will start getting rid of the people and relationships that would hinder and that are inappropriate, right now she wants me and her BF in the picture.

Its funny I told my sister I spoke to exw lastweek and what we talked about and my sister said "why?" why are you talking to her on that level? My sister said I thought she didn't want a christian husband, but yet she's trying to still reap the benefits of having you, she still wants you to play your role in her life. Why come she didn't ask her "Man" as she calls him? Don't he go to church? My thoughts were If this is the same guy that said my W belong to him last year long before we were Dv'd probably not. Anyway I'm starting to see the overall picture now...

While I do believe in restoration, I can't be an emotional crutch either...

Wallace - I be praying for you, I remember my Dv'd back in May....I remember the I can't believe this is happening to me, the word Dv was not to be found in me or our marriage, it was forever....I really do understand your position and why you are dv'ing, its been a tough road, despite me and my W had been apart for months prior to divorce and she had her BF, I felt a release from all the mess after Dv'd...Hang in there...

Thanks once again everyone for the advice..
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/21/02 06:48 PM
Wallace,
I have never seen your sig line before! That is a sad story unto itself. You must be on the fast track to sainthood <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It's probably hard to realize at this moment, but your future will be much brighter once this is behind you. I can't remember which state you're in, so not sure about time zone differences, but I'll pray for you (and courtroom outcome) in the early morning and then throughout the day as I remember.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/21/02 10:49 PM
Wallace,

I am burning a candle for you tonight. It is something us "oldtimers" used to do as a visible reminder of friends here at MB in special need of our prayers. Each time we see or pass the candle, another little prayer goes up for you. I hope the judge will be fair to you. You will likely go through a whole host of emotions tomorrow.

know that we all care about you and your family.

{{{{{{{{{{{{Wallace}}}}}}}}}}}}

RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/22/02 01:43 AM
Avondale and RMA,

Thank you both for your prayers.

I'm in Colorado, so the Court time is Mountain Standard Time.

Thank you for the candle RMA, I will remember it always.

I'm feeling pretty emotional at the moment so I will talk to you tomorrow.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/22/02 03:34 PM
Hi Wallace, I hope that things went well for you today... I know this has got to be very tough... but you did all you could to save the marriage, more than most humans could imagine... you will not have any regrets, you did all you could but the outcome was out of your control.
Today you will close one chapter in your life but begin a new one.. one that has endless possibilities, you have learned so much for going through this, this process has made
you a better, stonger, wiser person, everything happens for a reason, sometime it is difficult
to understand why God puts us through this but in the end you will see.
Regardless of what happens in the court room today, you are closing this chapter and moving on to better things.
I hope this day brings you some final closure.... you have been through alot of the last couple of years. I wish you the best my friend.
Take care and God Bless you,
Dave
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/23/02 12:53 AM
Wallace,

How are you, friend? I have been thinking of you today. How are your kids handling today?

RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/23/02 10:38 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: How are you doing? I hope things went well in court. I was thinking about you yesterday.As Dave said, you did everything you could to save your marriage,and you have learned alot that will benefit you in the future.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/23/02 02:15 PM
Hello Petvet, RMA, Avondale, Davepr, Wallace, Relady and everyone,

Just passing through hope all is going well for everyone and things moving in your favor.

I found out lastweek my employer missed sending 2 CS payments to the State but they deducted it from my check, it also shows on my paystub, I am current. My exw on friday had called and said it was late I then went to HR/payroll they said it should be there shortly they had already mailed it they tried something diff that caused a delay. Then yesterday HR dept notified me it was possible I might be going to jail and told me to get ready just in case police may come and get me, of course they apologized and was ready to assist. They said the State was threatening to come get me if they didn't have there money, HR said they seen it happen before....My exw was calling everybody she could to get the money. My employer told me state workers called, an attorney called, other state personal...Without me knowing it HR and my exw had a heated brawl....they said that woman your exw is incredible? I see why you're divorced, her words not mine....I felt bad and apologized for her behavior...

I spoke to exw and her response was ,"Oh they should have never been late and did there job", its there fault you were going to jail not mine.

I made sure I made the point to her had she been faithful and agreed with me I wouldn't be paying CS through the court in the first place.

So anyway that was my yesterday exw should have the money in a few days, I'm amazed I try to get away from the traps and do the right thing and still have to suffer under this CS issue so as you see I'm innocently made to be a deadbeat dad when I did nothing....

On the flip side exw is currently being overpaid for my OD who's 18 going on 19...by the time the court does modification exw will owe me about $8,000..in overpayments....I'm amazed that all she had to do was agree on the amount I was paying her and now it backfired on her.....She tried to suck me dry.

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/23/02 07:21 PM
EC - Yesterday was then and today is a new day, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> That's unbelievable that HR would mess up like that. Seems they should know that mistakes like that affect much more than just their own little bookkeeping world. On the other hand, how realistic is it that your exw will pay that $8000 back support for OD ? Will it be taken out of her paycheck? (Since CS is not an issue with me, I don't know how it works.) I hope things go in your favor.

Wallace - yoooo hooooo....how did things go yesterday? We're hoping for a good report but if that's not what happened, share that too. We can commiserate with you. Don't do a disappearing act on us, you're insight is much too valuable!

Petvet - I guess you're in the crosshairs for prayer next month when your court date comes.

Dave - Have you heard any feedback regarding that letter? (Maybe you don't expect any, just curious)

RMA - How is stuff with you? Still with the "guy friend"? Is that part of your life (after divorce/dating) chronicled anywhere here? I'm wondering if MB should start a Post-Divorce forum. Maybe it's not a positive thing when the focus here is marriage restoration, but as we know, restoration just doesn't always happen. Things like dating and stuff would probably be helpful to have others' input with. Oh well, just a thought. Maybe there is already a forum about that and I just haven't been there.

Me - well, I never thought finances would be anything I'd complain about. After all, my H makes a good salary and we've both been responsible with money. However, I just found out that he has not paid our home equity bill for the last two months. This is something that he agreed, both verbally and in the separation agreement, was his responsibility since most of the charges on it are related to his PhD studies. So now I have to talk to him about it, probably in the next few days. If that doesn't bring results, I guess I'll have to have my lawyer talk to his lawyer. Don't want to go that route unless I have to, but I won't sit around and let my excellent A++ credit history be messed up. Don't worry, I'll be firm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/23/02 10:47 PM
Hello All,

First, I would like to apologize for taking so long to get back with everyone.

It was a pretty hectic day yesterday.

I am officially divorced as we speak.

To make a long story short. My exW did not show up for Court as expected, needless to say the Judge was not happy about that.

I was on the stand for about two hours... I thought I would never get out of that chair.

I was awarded everything... the Judge deemed that the forgeries were so extensive that I had already paid above and beyond any additional money that she should receive.

In fact the Judge awarded me an addtional $5,000.00 for my wedding ring which she stole as well as all the CS payments for my 2 daughters going all the way back to October of last year. He also awarded me CS payments that would make a horse choke.

The Judge was not happy with her and her conduct, or lack thereof.

I basically hit a Grand Slam in the Court room yesterday... even my attorney couldn't believe it.
He said in all the years he has practiced... he had never seen anything quite like this.

I was totally in shock when he read the decree... also very pleased with the outcome.

I would have much rather had my family in tact and whole than have this, but I had to play the hand that was dealt to me... I was left with no choice.

I would of got back with everyone sooner, but I was really wiped out from my emotionas yesterday.

I am glad that it is over, but at the same time I am sad for what was.

I never want to have to go through it ever again, so I'm really guarded with any new relationships right now.

My friend understands, and that is a good thing. She is a good person, and she understands what I and my children have just went through. She just recently went through her own divorce as well. She knows what it's like to have an unfaithful spouse.

I spent most of yesterday and last evening and today with my kids. Today I was taking care of a ton of paper work concerning the divorce today... transfers etc., barring any appeals which she has 15 days to do.

We are not anticipating any appeals, but you never know.

The power of prayer truly works... in spite of all that has happened the Lord was smiling on my family yesterday.

Thank you all for being here, and for your prayers.

God bless you all.

I'm going to be around for quite some time to come. so don't expect me to go anywhere.

You are not going to get rid of me that easy.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/23/02 11:10 PM
Wallace, although I am sad it came to this,I am
glad that things went your way in court, you deserve this and your ex got what she had coming, I hope this forces some reality into her but
my guess is that she is going to spend the rest of her life running away from responsibilities.
I am very happy that things went your way
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Take care,

Dave
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/23/02 11:11 PM
No reply on the letter.. didn't expect one, my guess it that he got the mail and riped it up,that only bought him some time..
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/23/02 11:30 PM
Wallace,

God has afforded you the protection you needed and deserved. I am happy at least you didn't get fleeced in court. However, I doubtr if you will ever see one penny of CS from your exW. I just don't see her as responsible or mature enough to do this, even for her own kids.

Take your time with any new relationships. Trust me, your emotions will still up and down in the weeks to come. Remember, it takes a long time for deep love to wind down, and you have definitely demonstrated that you loved your exW deeply through some pretty bad times.

EC,

Your story was almost as amazing as Wallace's! Gosh, she just couldn't ask you about the delayed money when she had those hours of conversation with you??????? Was she being nice "to your face" while calling the police and everybody else behind your back???? I stick with my assessment of your exW - she only wants what SHE wants from you, and nothing more.

Petvet,

Your court date is coming in another couple weeks. Any response at all from your W concerning your offer for the counselling with the pastor? How are you holding up emotionally?

avondale25,

Girl, do I need to talk to you!!! Please listen to me: do NOT expect your H to follow-thru on anything he is promising you financially, right now. I have been there and been burned!!! Please realize that your home equity loan is financing HIS education, and you are half responsible for that debt, even if you end up divorced. Consider doing what I did - after you have been separated a long time, consider splitting the finances. It will be worth your time to do so - money,credit cards, everything you can. If you two reconcile, then you can always merge it back together. But if you end up divorced, you will be responsible for half of all this stuff he is doing to benefit HIM and potentially the OW....definitely not you! Please consider legal advice. You don't want your finances sucked dry and your credit rating impaired in any way. Trust me - my exH had drained money from our joint savings acct to buy a houseboat for him and the OW (who is now his W)right from under my own nose! I never suspected he would do that to me, and he promised to treat me right. HA, remember, the WS also promised to love, honor and cherish until death do us part, and he didn''t keep that promise either!

davepr,

Thanks for the support of each of us here. Your guidance and good advice is always appreciated!!!

Hope I haven't forgotten anyone here! RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/23/02 11:41 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: HALLELUJAH! HALLELUJAH! THERE IS A GOD.

Got to go; I'll be back later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/24/02 01:29 AM
Hi eveyone,

Wallace hey you made it, I know what you mean when you feel out of it after a day like that, its an emotional time...its sad but now its really over, lots of joy ahead for you...
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/24/02 08:13 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: I am very happy for you. Apparently, the judge felt the same way that all of us on this thread felt and that is that your marriage was one of the worst cases of adultery that any of us had ever seen. Your ex got what she deserved. Since you will probably have trouble collecting your money, make sure that you hit her credit report, so that she will have to eventually did with her obligation to you and your family. This way she will not be able to buy a car, house, or even a job because of the large judgement against her. How do you kids feel about the outcome of the case? How do you feel? Is the pressure gone?

Avondale: I am willing to bet you that your H will start leaving his financial obligations behind and on your plate. I recommend you speak to him soon to resolve this and give him a deadline to get everything in order. This may explain why he is trying to be FRIENDS because he is in the process of pulling the wool over your face. BE CAREFUL.

EC: Once your ex realizes that she owes you eight grand, you will see how she reacts and how long it will take to get your money back.

Me: I received some bad news today. It appears that my case in two weeks will not include the divorce part but only the CS contempt case. I'm not a happy camper because the judge that has my case is retiring at the end of the year, and he was very good for my case. He gives out heavy judgements in cases involving adultery. My attorney reassured me that the judge that my case would go to is even just as hard on adultery as the present judge. We will see. My attorney just receive a interrogatory from w's attorney. Now, she will find out that I have some serious adultery evidence against her. W is going to have a cow.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/24/02 11:30 AM
Wallace, what can I say? I could say "that's great" but we all know it isn't. If I say "congratulations" we would be congratulating the end of large part of your life. If I say "You won" we know that nobody wins in divorce. It is great that the judge saw through all the mess and awarded in your favor. You have done everything as well as could be done, and I have so much respect for you! So now the next chapter in your life begins...

RMA - don't worry, I will not let H get away with this. It's in our legal sep. agreement, but I want to approach him personally first, w/o lawyers. Don't want to be the first to get antagonistic, ya know? I will probably ask him to include separate check for the payment along with the support next week. If he complies, then we will still be interacting civilly with each other...Otherwise, I'll call my lawyer the next day.

Relady - when does your ship return to port? LOL (Is that the right cruise lingo?)
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/24/02 11:31 AM
Petvet,

What are you doing up at 3:30 am??? Are you getting enough rest??? Sorry your legal process has to be 2-step like this. Just prolongs things. But, perhaps this is a blessing in disguise, as I still feel your W isn't 100% out of the door. You nevr know - maybe this first step will be like a bucket of ice cold water in her face. Reality could slap her awake here really soon. Continued prayers for you and your son.

RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/24/02 09:04 PM
Hi All,
Thanks again everyone for all your prayers and support.
I have been real busy today, and I thought I would check in for a moment.
Be back a little later.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/25/02 09:20 PM
Hi All,
Not a lot new here... attorneys and still more paper work after the FJ... aside from that I'm doing pretty good.
Petvet...
I believe there is all things for a reason. I didn't think you were going to be able to combine both the CS hearing and your "D" all in one hearing... but every State is different.
Even though you are getting closer to your CS hearing... I still haven't given hope on your situation yet. I keep getting this nagging feeling that something is going to change concerning your wife... I can't put my finger on it as of yet, but it's a gut feel that I keep having. I'll let you know, when I can be more descriptive about it.
Avondale...
I believe that you are handling yourself very well. I would keep my eye on that situation though.
I have seen this happen with other people before... spouse is paying the bills like they say they are going to, and then all of a sudden they stop.
I know your right on top of it though, and you know what you need to do if it starts getting out of control.
Stay the course.
EC...
It sounds like you got a real predicament going there.
If your exW will go to that extent to have you thrown in jail over HRs screw up on yoursupport payments, I would steer very clear of her.
Dave...
Do you think your ex-friend got to the letter you sent, and threw it away before his W could read it.
If so, send it again with only his wifes name on it with their address and not put your return address on the envelope... put their address on it in place of it.
Hope things are still going well for you and your wife.
RMA...
Thank you for the advice on not moving too fast in another relationship. Tonight is my first officail date with my "lady friend".
We are going out for a nice quiet dinner, just her and I... no other people... so it's an a offical date.
I've been out of the loop for so long, it's kind of scary.
I may need some pointers, as well as some direction in this area as well.
relady...
Not sure if your back from your cruise yet, but if you are, I hope you had a good time.
Let us know how you are doing when you get a chance.
Hope everyone has a good weekend.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/26/02 03:13 PM
Hi All,

Well exw responds back to my comment "Had she been faithful I wouldn't be paying CS and worked things out she wouldn't be owing me" I also tell her I can't be friends with her if she's continues to perform her dirty work, smile in my face, knife in the back next moment, I tell her thats not what a friend is. I tell her the "Man" she has is not a man, I say any guy that invades your home and then says your wife belongs to him to your face has a serious immoral problem, however she defends him. I tell her, he's a controller and possessive. I said make sure when you go to church you tell your Pastor how you guys met and what he said to your husband while we were still married....He's 1 of 6 OM's.

Ok, I know I was rough but she can be cruel - I try to move on and forgive her but she thinks she or he has done nothing wrong. She feels she can do to me what she wants and then I'm to just get over it and she'll befriend me all over again and as you know, she'll want to talk for hours about her. I'm seeing now the definition of friends vs friendly on my part. Below is her response:

Her:

Now the bottom line is I have someone now. Your
daughters are fine with him. He's never tried to be their father, only their friend. And he's been
successful at that. He treats the girls like they are his own. If we end up in court over CS, he'll be with me.

Staying married to you was not necessary in order for the girls to receive those things you mentioned from you, such as love, security, financial support, touch, guidance, involvement, spiritual guidance, you can give them that from where you are. The girls are a little mouthy right now talking back to me here and there but thats part of life.*
[remember we're 1,200 miles apart]

He's a strong personality and he's not easily
intimidated. When it comes to us, he won't allow us to be disrespected regardless of who you are. So if you've experienced anything, that's the side you experienced. He's not perfect and I won't pretend like he is. He has faults just like the rest of us. But he's real... all the time.

No one forced you into leaving. You can't be forced into anything. Everything you did and everything I did was a free will choice. Nobody forced anybody to do anything.

Losing you as a friend is a loss but the friendship is too detrimental. It's too full of hurtful words and pain. And neither of us needs that right now especially while we're healing. I don't want to continue to open up your wounds and I don't want mine opened either. I'd rather suffer the loss and be completely healed.

I understand your concerns. But as long as he's good to your daughters and they are cool with him, you should have no complaints. Like I said, let the old things pass away.

******
I only post these things to show what I'm up against and to show you are not alone, some wonder how it might be to talk with your spouse after time passed, well? see what you might get!!?. Even if we never got back together her manipulation is so strong... How can somebody say they are healing if they left a marriage through deceit and lying and has the OP who invaded your marriage still?? Once again her hurtful word comment is in reference to her "Man" not her, she hates when I say something about him...She's only using the comment "healing" because I said I was starting to heal, she's playing on my words. She's never fostered any apology or words of healing to me, she still boasts.

As far as court goes for CS, they are doing a telephone court session with me, she don't know that yet, so she won't be able to flaunt her man in my face, she has tried so many times but it never happens...

She's obsessed with trying to get me in the same room with this guy, for what reason I don't know. She tried it during the final Dv date, I didn't have to be there, she tried it at OD HS graduation, I never saw exw and OM there, she tried after graduation while OM was at her house I didn't know but I didn't go, now she thinks she will see me a this CS hearing her and OM, once again it won't happen, I don't have to be there.

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/27/02 03:06 AM
EC
I've spent some time tonight searching out some of your earlier posts and have learned more about your story. (This is what happens when you are separated and have nothing to do on Saturday night!) This also confirmed that you DO INDEED live up to your name, Everlasting Compassion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am sooo sorry you had to endure what she's said about the OM. It just seems real clear that she's playing you along. She says she's healing because she is still "in the fog". Her comments about the OM play into that too. Maybe it gives her a sense of control, maybe she just likes to yank your chain, maybe it's a by-product of the abuse she went through when she was younger, whatever. It's time to put her behind you. Focus on YOU, and whatever you are able to do and are comfortable with regarding your kids.

That's good about your not having to appear in court; she probably wants to get a reaction from you, or do some type of perverse validation of herself by flaunting him. No matter what, keep your cool about him. Believe me, you are such a better man than he is, your character shows in your posts. He, I am sure, has none.

Hope everyone is having a great weekend.

Wallace , how did the FIRST DATE go? LOL

<small>[ October 26, 2002, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/27/02 04:39 AM
Hi All,

I'mmmmmm Bbbbaaaccckkk!

Got back on Friday morning and had an opportunity to catch up on all the posts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope my writing isn't lopsided!! I've been walking funny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace

I'm so glad to hear everything worked out in your favor. God was truly in charge. Don't keep us in suspense, How was your first 'official' date?
You're my hero <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet

I'm sure God will be in charge with you as well. It will soon be over <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC

WOW, What can I say, You are truly a Saint! Look how the Lord has been protecting you from that confrontation with the OM! But, she really has too much access to your life! I think you may just have to cut her off completely!

Davepr

How did they reply to your letter? I don't remember reading about that in the posts.

Avondale

You have the cruise lingo right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I walked from the Aft to the Forward of the ship and arrived at Port on Friday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> LOL

RMA,

You are just one of the wisest people I know, Thank you for sharing your experience with us.

Me

Oh my, where do I start?

I had a wonderful time, ate too much, thought too much and now I really need a vacation!

This was the first time in the 3 years that I had ever been on a vacation without my H <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I never thought I would miss him so much. Many times I just sat in the window seats and stared out at the ocean wondering how I got here!

On the ship, the had a newlywed game, couples married 45 years, 2 weeks and 15 years, The couple married 45 years won, the others knew almost nothing about each other, is that sad or what? And does it take that long?

How do you go from being so much in love to not talking for 3 months?

Most of you here have at least been in touch with your WS's and have been able to make a consious decision based on conversation whether they were in a fog or not. I have no idea what's happening!
Sometimes, I feel like I'm the one in a fog!

Although, I know the Lord is directing my path, patience is not a favorite of mine!

I suppose I could call if I choose too, but the desire is not there.

So, experienced ones, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> How do you move on and not be divorced? Should I call, file, or have patience?

God Bless You,
relady
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/27/02 06:01 AM
Hi Again,

Forgot to add. When I asked my Pastor if I should file for D, He said, "Have you really given the Lord a chance to work? My H has not returned any of his calls!

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/28/02 06:49 AM
Hi Relady, welcome back!
To my best recollection, you haven't seen or heard from your H in 3-4 months now. And you haven't contacted him or his family yet, right? Do you even know where he is? Do you think his family knows where he is?

If you didn't have a clue about anything until the day he left, I would tend to agree with your pastor. Is 3-4 months long enough? Eventually you will come to a point in your life when you KNOW it has been long enough. I guess that would be where you can look back in time, without regrets , and KNOW that you did everything you could, given your unusual circumstances (no contact). Do you feel you're at that point yet? I'm sure it's got to be frustrating, because you're living in limboland! But could you hold out a little longer?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most of you here have at least been in touch with your WS's and have been able to make a conscious decision based on conversation whether they were in a fog or not. I have no idea what's happening!
Sometimes, I feel like I'm the one in a fog!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everyone else's conscious decisions were made long after 3-4 months, I am sure. Do you have compelling reasons to go ahead with filing? Would it somehow be in your best interest to do any legal action sooner, rather than later?

Now Wallace, Petvet, EC, Dave, and the always-wise sister guru RMA would really be the ones to answer this - they've walked through it. I'll look forward to seeing what they have to say!

PS>..RMA, that was a compliment, I just realized it could be misread to be facetious since you read it and didn't "hear" it. But I mean it in a sincere, admirable way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm learning a lot from y'all.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/27/02 07:39 PM
Hey, girls!

I only have half a brain today. My guy friend's older son got married last night. It was a big bang-up. They had an 11 piece band at the reception and I danced almost every dance and drank a tad too much wine, too. Then, I got up 1 hour too early for 7 am church - forgot to change the clocks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

relady, glad the cruise was fun. I know what you mean when you say you need a vacation after your vacation! LOL!

I have to agree with your pastor and avondale. I believe you owe your H "an amount of time" to sort things through. Who knows why he isn't trying to contact you? He could be wrestling with guilt and shame. Or, perhaps he is off having a good time. You don't know and truly it does no good to try to second guess these things. My opinion is that you give him some room and time to figure things out - within reason. For each of us, it is personal. I say go as long as YOU can. Somehow, if things end up going too long, God will tell you. A feeling that you need to do something different will come to you. Right now, your first priority is to work on yourself, so that you can be the best mate and partner you can. You are really doing great considering the absence of your H. There is some reason for this, so trust God on that one.

avondale, you are a sweetie. Have you heard anymore from your H?

Guys, hope all is well with you this Sunday afternoon. This is all I can post right now. RMA
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/28/02 01:51 AM
Hi All,

Avondale,

Your recollection is correct, I haven't seen or heard from H in almost 4 months now. It is somewhat by choice because I have his cell number and family numbers but I haven't had a desire to call. Whenever there was a problem with us, I would always approach him and apoligize and then he would. We never solved anything. So, I refuse to allow that to happen this time. He also left a note asking me not to try and contact him.

The pastor's aide called him last week and he said he would not be coming back to the church!

Six months before, I did have a clue something was wrong, but he always claimed we were OK. Then 2 weeks before he left, he sat me down and gave me the typical fog speech. 'I'm not happy, you do this and you don't do that'etc.

No compelling reason to file. I just hate loose ends in my life. And he knows that, so he is probably waiting on me to do just that! It does get pretty frustrating. We have no children, and only married a short time, not good for reconcilation. That is the natural side of me, however; on the Spritual side, I don't want to put God in a box. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It's sometimes hard to keep these darn emotions under control.

RMA

Your half a brain is better than my whole brain today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I will give my H time to sort things out. Thank you for reminding me that God will let me know when it's time to take the next step. I'll be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I am definitely working on myself. I'm sure my H is having a good time! I see evidence of 'match.com and yahoo personals, and those are a virtual smorgasboard for WS's one after another!

I promised God, I would stay out of His business and let Him handle it, and then I let my mind carry me away. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

You're all so wonderful here,
god Bless You,

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/28/02 02:30 PM
Hi all!

I've been in the Big Easy for a couple of days on business, so I am trying to get back in the saddle. I'll be back later today.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/28/02 07:23 PM
Petvet,
We wondered where you were! What kind of job takes you to New Orleans? How are things with your son and his new school situation?

<small>[ October 28, 2002, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/28/02 07:35 PM
Hi All.
Well, I went on my first "official" date... Friday night... Saturday night, and Sunday day right after Church... it went on a little longer than I had expected.
I was very nervous to say the least, (I haven't been on a date in almost 24 yrs. let alone 3 in a row) but I started to get less nervous as time went on.
I'm not sure, but I think she really likes me.
It's like a whole different world from what I just came out from... It was kind of nice actually... I still have my walls up, and I know I need to start trying to bring them down, and hopefully that will come in time.
I'm still nervous though... it felt a little strange after being out of the loop for so long... hopefully I will get past that part of it.
So my lady friend and I have set a date for this Friday evening <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I guess there is life after your marriage dies.
EC...
How can your exW expect you to be friends with her, when it appears that she is trying to set you up for trouble.
I would really try and concentrate on moving as far from her and her exploits as possible. It's a shame that she has custody of your daughters.
From what your stating, I'm not so sure that this OM is as stable as she is leading you to believe... he has already threatened you once if I recall correctly. I'm a little concerned with the direction she is trying to lead you... be careful.
You need to keep moving forward without her and her "OM" in the picture. I know it's hard because of the children, but I would try to remove them and their antics as far out of my life as I could.
Avondale...
My "FIRST OFFICIAL DATE" went so well I'm going to do it again... LOL
We had dinners and lunchs together... and talked and talked and talked. Lots of talking... LOL
We are both taking it very slow, I know it probably doesn't sound like it by the amount of dates in such a short period of time, but I know in my mind... I'm taking it very slow and mythodical.
Anything new on your end concerning your "H" not paying the bills etc.?
I'll keep you updated on my end as things move forward.
relady...
I bet you still feel like your on that boat... LOL
Glad to hear that you had a nice cruise.
Isn't it funny that we always need a vacation to recover from our vaction... I know all about that... LOL.
Ditto to what Avondale and RMA stated concerning your situation.
I think I know how you were feeling when you stared out your window and wondered... "how did I get here"?
I've been there a few times myself... asking the very same question... I try not to ask that question to myself or dwell on it if I can.
When that starts happening to me, I give it to the Lord. That's confusion setting in, and that's Satan's work at hand there.
Let God be your focus on this, and hand it over to him. Let him guide you through this... he will eventually give you the answers you are seeking. He will put it in your heart as to what to do next.
Don't try to rush anything... patience is something that I learned through this whole thing if nothing else.
Regardless of the outcome, let it be of the Lord's choosing... there will be no doubt in your mind what to do as things unfold... just pray on it and God will direct you.
Keep the faith and continue your walk with the Lord, he will comfort you as you continue your journey.
RMA...
It sounds like you had a better time this weekend than I did... LOL.
Every once in awhile, you just have to get out there and let it all go.
I'll bet it was a very nice wedding and reception as well.
Hope you got your clock situation straightened out... LOL.
Petvet and Dave...
What's going on guys?
Hope everything is going well for you today.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/28/02 10:56 PM
Hello Everyone,

Looks like everyone is busy and on the go..

Business stuff, Dates, Trips, etc...Finding the beauty in living is a wonderful thing even after DV or through the storm of it.

Well I had a friend and his wife give me a surprize visit this weekend from out of town. They really wanted to talk to me which they did, in great detail and we prayed together for total detachment from her now. We talked about me mostly, then exw...They said, Ok, its time to start living life to the fullest and let your exw wife go and move on, of course I've heard this before, but they said, no, we want you to really let go and shut the door this time, you have grieved long enough over her and she knows it and knows you want her, it's time to bury it and move forward, they said yes she causes you to relive it all over again by trying to be friends, flaunt OM and talk long conversations but said keep the conversations short and on business, they said she's not happy and fulfilled OM is not what he appears to be....

Exw sent me an email Friday and said her and my 2 D's might be moving from the city they are in 200 miles further north late Dec, but will let me know in 2 weeks, as I said she's just unstable, my D's never know if they will finish the school year at same school or be moving from house to house because exw can't pay rent at times, exw has lost her sense of stability...

So anyway guys I'm closing the emotional door I had swinging open more than ever now, thanks to the Lord and all of you and my friend...I feel better now..

Take Care
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/28/02 11:12 PM
Hi All,

EC

Ditto your friends. Time to move on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace

We wondered where you were <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WOW, was that your 'moving slow'? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Three dates in one weekend!! So, it was just as I suspected, you were kidnapped for the weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL
Or maybe it was the other way around. LOL

Thank you for your words of advice, I really appreciate all of you here. Yes, Satan is definitely the author of confusion, but sometimes I can't stop myself. I just feel like turning myself upside down and emptying out my head <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Then 'Poof' no more bad memories.

The Lord has been silent on this issue. The one thing I am learning is patience, but it is not easy. But, 'Father knows best'.

God Bless You,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/29/02 02:57 AM
Wallace - oh wow, THREE dates? Isn't that called "marathon dating"? You must be making up for lost time, LOL. It has been said before, I think MB needs to add a forum about "post divorce". Not everyone gets the chance for recovery. I've seen several posts over the weekend from people asking questions about dating (and life in general) after a divorce. I mean, I can think of zillions of questions to ask but my time hasn't come-- yet-- so I'll wait. Wallace, maybe you can be a moderator for that forum!

EC - I know that it was great to see your friends. Did having someone there with you, in person, help come to grips about your xW ? How much contact, if any, do you have with your daughters? I can't remember.

Me - I did talk to hubby about not paying the home equity bill. His explanation was that it didn't have an "amount due" (which was true-bill said $0). I told him my understanding of our agreement was that he would continue to pay what we had always paid (to cover finance charges, which continue no matter what the bill says) and he understood my point (and I understood his faulty logic, too). He agreed to pay what we had previously discussed, but felt the fact that it was written into the separation agreement had more to do with the final determination of percentages owed at divorce than what is due during this year's separation. I thought it applied to both. We'll see what happens, now that I've made my point.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/29/02 05:57 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: THREE DATES back to back. While I as reading your posts, I was just going through flashbacks when my w and I started dating and we could not get enough of eachother. I guess all of us started that way. I'm happy you have found someone to connect with; however, be careful. Every step of the way, always think with your head not with your heart. You do realize that you are started out the gate very fast. Just be careful.

Relady: OK! Tan, 10 extra lbs., refuel your engines. It sounds like you had a great time.

Avondale: I hope your H keeps his words. I expect sooner or later he won't be very agreeable on matters. Of course, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt until he proves otherwise.

EC: Have you ever thought about going for custody of your kids? Why is you ex moving your kids further and further from you?

RMA: My sleeping habits are out of control. Lately, I try to sleep as much as possible with a kid in the house,but sometimes I cannot sleep, so rather than waste time looking at the bedroom ceiling, I get up and do something which is normally in the wee hours of the morning. I bet while you were at that wedding you thought about marriage again. Has it pop up in your mind? It's good you main man is keeping you in the mix of things.

Dave: How can you tell that biker jerk intercepted the letter? I guess one way to tell in that he is still living under the same roof as his wife or you could have ventured by their house to see if his belongings were on the side of the street (just kidding), or whether he has a black eye or stratch marks on his face, or even better yet whether there were reports in the local news media of someone having a barn fire conprising of a car, clothes, etc. and a bewildered man outside crying on his dog's shoulder.

Me: Well, it's clear to me that this mess with w will not be over before the new year. I was hoping to have this over with before the holidays. I guess I will go to the beach or something during the holidays to avoid being around family. I don't like putting on preteases. I just received interrogatories from w's attorney. She is in for a rude awakening. I am going through the final countdown until next week's court hearing. While in the Big Easy, I confided in an acquaintance about my situation after constinct inquiries about my wife and kid. This person was floored when I told them about my mess. They told me that I am very cool and reserve and that no one would be able to tell that I have problems, but this person said that my reserveness and cool headedness probably lead my w into thinking that she could walk all over me. She is correct because my mom said the same thing. This person said that some women like guys to treat them bad in other for them to respect them. I was told that a number of women don't like guys like me. RMA, Avondale, Relady: what do you think? I was told that I am not loose enough which probably turned w the wrong way. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/29/02 12:46 PM
Hey Petvet ,
Not exactly sure what it is you're asking, but I'll give my opinion anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . People who are "cool and reserved" tend to appear to be emotionless and detached from any given situation. Not that they ARE that way, but they appear to be. That MIGHT be why your W thinks she can walk over you, because maybe it appears you don't care what happens. Some also may think these people types can be over-controlling. The positive side to that type of personality is that these people usually don't jump to conclusions, and plan what they say and do (thinking before acting). They tend to look at the whole picture of a situation, evaluating for future consequences, instead of just how an action affects just one part. Do these positive attributes apply to you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This person said that some women like guys to treat them bad in other for them to respect them. I was told that a number of women don't like guys like me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now I personally don't agree with this at all. Why would I want to hang around someone who treated me bad? (Not sure exactly what "treated me bad" means in this case.) I much prefer respect and some type of positive feedback, affirmation of myself as a person, good mother, skilled worker, buff gym girl <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , etc.. I guess that thought applies to all parts of life. If I was "treated badly" then I can guarantee there would be absolutely NO reason for me to hang around that person at all! It would push me away, not draw me closer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was told that I am not loose enough which probably turned w the wrong way. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THIS WAY </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What does "not loose enough" mean, anyway? You don't party til 3 AM ? Maybe you like your rest. You are predictable? Some women like knowing what to expect from their mates. You aren't a comedian? You take life seriously, so what.. YOU be the way God made you and I know there will be a woman (probably many more than one) who will love you just the way you are.

On another note, seems like there is a lot of sleeplessness going around. I had insomnia really bad Sunday night....so another suggestion is for MB to have a chatroom, LOL.

<small>[ October 29, 2002, 07:45 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/29/02 03:55 PM
Hi Everyone, rise and shine....

Petvet - Thats a good subject about being nice to women vs treating them like a mop. Despite my exw said OM is a strong personality and trys to make me look soft or passive, I know she's being controlled and living in fear of him, if he talked to me the way he did, don't think he'll have any respect for her in time to come, thats ruthless. I can't have a woman love me based on fear of what I might do to her, I rather have her fear what if she looses me because of the love and all that I have to offer. I got a compliment from female aquaintence yesterday that said my kindness is such a rare breed these day, not that I'm a push over or passive, I can be firm, stubborn and execute a harsh sentence if necessary, but my first choice is to always give someone 100 hundred and let them prove there own actions with me, they will either add or subtract my trust extended to them, people either add, subtract or multiply to your life. I guess this is the conclusion I had to come to with exw, she is definitly subtracting, if she's adding anything, its more sorrow and grief.

Therefore kindness is more for you to walk in and enjoy, its something that makes you feel good inside knowing how you treat people, if women like to be a doormat and treated less than who and what they are, then, consider yourself the type that don't do that to women. I exalt a woman because I think they are some of most precious creatures God created. When God created a woman he made her look beautiful, curvey and appealing to man, I don't care if she is fat or skinny, it don't take a supermodel to look lovely and pretty, I hate to see women beat themselves up never arriving to that place of accepting how they look, sure improvements are always nice, but many need to be at peace and realize they are just pretty as they are, he placed in her precious feelings and emotions that complete the man, men are strong and not so sensitive most times, so we balane each other out.

So for me I tend to treat a woman as my equal and lead her into all that she could be and not some mop thats to be dragged on the ground or treat her like she's something less than human. Some women like that kind of degrading treatment, but it won't come from me. So Petvet keep treating women nice, some like being treated rough, some like to be treated nice and pampered.

My rough side with my exw was we would play and wrestle and while I had her pinned down I would kiss and hug her, then she would call in for troops and re-enforcements then my kids would jump on my back and there would be a pile of bodies with my W under us all with screams of laughing.

Kid Issue - My Kids are 17,18 1/2 custody is there choice at this age. OD could get married if she wanted to by law. Exw is in FL i'm in Mo, she's considering moving to another city in FL, so it's not any further away.

Avondale -

Having my friend and his wife in my house helped, they didn't rally against exw, but rallied me to push harder to seperate the old marriage tie so I could move on and get out of the emotional loop of possibily being drawn back by exw's emotional games. There concern was, yes, I grieved her loss but now it must ALL stop and cease lest it become unhealthy to me, its over, stop feeling sorry for her and move on as I been doing. After we prayed something inside lifted and broke.

Contact with Kids has been as much as they will allow, at this time its about once a month, I backed off a few months ago from the weekly calls, it was always a oneway conversation and they talked in code hiding exw's dirty work,[ OM was in the house] so my relationship with them was strained, I sent them stamps and calling cards,etc... this summer, OD wrote only one time and that was an apology letter and wanting to restore our relationship, but still neither has called at anytime, I still do the calling. I spoke to YD lastweek on her B-Day, we talked but its still oneway, only answer questions I ask. I bought YD a color 13" TV for her B-day it hasn't arrived there yet. Until they come here things probably won't change, but I'm going to make sure despite how they are distant with me, I'm going to let them know I never gave up on them.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/30/02 06:07 AM
Hi All,
Yes, I have to agree it was somewhat excessive... 3 dates in a row... and I did start to think that I probably needed to put the brakes on it and slow it down to a snails pace... but it just kind of happened.
At first I didn't realize what was happening as it was unfolding, until the second consecutive date... then it started to become apparent to me that my lady friend might have very strong feelings for me.
I did enjoy her company and conversation very much though. It was quite a bit different from what I had been involved with in my past marriage.
"Time flies when you're having fun"... the old saying goes I guess... but my walls are still way up.
It's going to be a long time before they start coming down I'm sorry to say... and I stated that to her.
She did respect and accept my position on this, for how long though, I'm not sure.
Probably not the best thing to say to someone, but I wanted to be truthful... and not set any false expectations for either her or me... I'm just going to play it by ear.
relady...
I think there was a kidnapping <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I'm not sure who was kidnapping who though.
I just wanted to let you know that God was silent with me as well during the longest time while my "M" was falling apart. I prayed on it for the longest time... asking God to give me direction and allow me to see the truth concerning my marriage.
He finally let me see the truth... it was far more than I could have ever imagined.
It took quite a long time for the Lord to answer my prayers and lead my way, but eventually he did.
As painful as it was, and still is... I'm glad that he gave me the stregnth and determination to come to a resolve concerning my "M".
I think your Pastor gave you some good advice as well as Avondale and RMA... as hard as it may seem now... patience is in order for the time being.
The Lord will eventually give you the answers that you are seeking.
Avondale...
I think it was a marathon date... LOL.
It was suppose to be a nice quiet walk and then it turned into a 5k marathon.
I have to agree with you about "post divorce issues... dating, to soon, to much, relationships, etc.
I don't know about me being the moderator though... this is all pretty new to me, and I'm sure I'm stumbling around as bad as anybody at this point in time.
My vote would go to RMA on that one... what do you think RMA?
As far as your "H" not paying the "home equity bill... I would give him the benefit of the doubt for now, as it may have been a misunderstanding... but I would also keep a close watch on it as well as all other financial transactions.
You are on top of the situation, and he now knows it.
I would wait and see what he does. hopefully he will do the right thing and pay his shair accordingly.
Stay the course.
Petvet...
I have to agree with you my good friend... this dating scenario took off way to fast and I'm trying to slow it way down.
I'm not ready for a full time relationship at this stage... I just got divorced.
I think I have slowed it down to a point where expectations are not going to be so high, so quickly... at least that's the game plan.
I'm sorry to hear that your court hearings are dragging out in the fashion that they are.
It is even tougher to deal with when it's all revolving around the holiday period.
Your CS hearing is coming up soon and I wish you well during that time... my prayers will be with you.
I know you asked the question of the ladies, but I feel compelled to throw my 2 cents worth on what I think your friend was trying to elude to.
IMHO, I don't believe woman like to be treated badly... quite the contrary.
I think some woman, not all woman, like a sense of adventure and mystery (not lies and deceit), it helps keep things interesting, fresh, and romantic.
Each person is different, so I don't think you can make a blanket statement such as that ("all woman like to be treated badly").
I'm sure there are some woman out there that do like to be treated badly. I wouldn't want anything to do with them... and I don't think you would either.
I can't offer you any advice on the sleep issue. I went through the same thing myself when it came closer to the Court date. In fact the night before my FJ Court date... I was up most of the night. It's not healthy not getting any sleep, but what part of all of this is?
Hang in there... you will get through it.
EC...
I think your friend gave you some real good advice concerning your exW and "OM".
It's time to move forward with your life as hard as it is. I would also take a real long look at your daughters situation and try to decide if what is going on with them with your exW and "OM" is in their best interests.
RMA and Dave...
Hope you are both doing well.
RMA... what is your take on the "woman like to be treated badly issue"?
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/29/02 07:11 PM
Hi All,

Hope you're having a great day.

Petvet

Sorry to hear you have to take this mess into the new year. But, ending the mess so close to end the end of the year probably wouldn't have made much difference anyway right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You still wouldn't want to be around family, they always tend to ask alot of questions. I know mine does!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I confided in an acquaintance about my situation after constinct inquiries about my wife and kid. This person was floored when I told them about my mess. They told me that I am very cool and reserve and that no one would be able to tell that I have problems, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's funny how everyone says that when they find out. How do they expect us to appear in public, should we be laying under a park bench or sitting on the curb to show the world we have problems? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> If they could only see behind closed doors! Sorry, but that is a pet peeve of mine, because I've found when someone keeps asking
while we carefully avoid answering, they know the answer already!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> this person said that my reserveness and cool headedness probably lead my w into thinking that she could walk all over me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My H was cool, reserved and always paid attention to detail to a fault. Very aloof, never paid compliments, because he never wanted anyone to think he cared. And no way could I walk over him. So, IMHO, I think it depends on how you portray your coolness <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If it is done in a 'whimpy' way, yes, W saw it as a weakness. It's just a fact that women are emotional and men are mostly level headed and when those roles are reversed it causes a problem.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This person said that some women like guys to treat them bad in other for them to respect them. I was told that a number of women don't like guys like me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The key words here are 'some women'

Most secure, confident women don't go for men who treat them bad.

Is this person saying, you should have beat your wife up for her to respect you? Before you can respect someone else, you must first respect yourself and obviously your W didn't!

So, IMHO, Stay the way you are, you don't have to be a bully to attract the right women! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wallace

You're right patience is in order, The Lord probably knows, 'I can't handle the truth' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/30/02 12:25 PM
Hi all!

Many of you know my trials and tribulations through the fifty pages that have accumulated since last fall. As you remember, I have made numerous attempts to reconcile with w even dropping my suit only to have her refile against me five days later. YOU MAY WANT TO SIT DOWN FOR THIS. When w brought son over this morning, she told me that she wanted to speak to me. Well, she asked me whether I would attend a meeting with her pastor. Of course, I said yes. I was floored. I AM SCARED TO DEATHHHHHHHHH! I sense tells me that I am being set up. Keep this in mind: w apartment lease is up at the end of November or December, court hearing next week, and a revealing interrogatory forth coming to her attorney within three weeks. Do you'll understand what I am saying? I have put her out of my system. I am not dropping my suit until I know and can verify a change by her. DAVEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE, WHERE ARE YOU?
I am being set up I know it.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/30/02 04:11 PM
Hi all,
Petvet,
I'm somewhat stunned over what you posted.
I'll bet it threw you for a loop as well.
It is very understandable to feel the way you do.
The question you have to ask yourself is what positive changes has she made since all of this started.
I can understand why you are very suspect of the whole situation... I would be too if I were in your shoes.
Has she said anything lately to make you think that she is taking a turn for the better?
I stated earlier that I had a gut feeling about something coming up concerning your situation... I still can't put my finger on it yet though.
Good move... agreeing to meet with her and her Pastor... but be ready for just about anything at this point.
Let us know how your meeting goes.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 10/30/02 04:27 PM
Petvet

You can still change your mind about going with her to see her pastor. You can tell her that you see no valid reason for you to go with her. But that is up to you. Who knows, it may turn out to be that you are being set up for some network marketing scheme <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/30/02 05:25 PM
Good Morning All,

Petvet

I can certainly understand your shock. Did you ask her what the talk was about? At least that way you won't be ambushed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Regardless of what the talk is about, you certainly wouldn't allow her to return home when her lease is up, that's only two months from now. That wouldn't be enough time to observe a change in her behavior.

IMHO, before the meeting, I would pray and ask God to speak through me at the meeting. And by all means don't allow the pastor to make you feel intimated into doing something you don't want to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Pastors have a way of doing that, because we respect their office. If that happens, explain her behavior so he will have a clear picture. Because in reading about your stbxw, she probably has told a slanted story.

Let us know when the meeting is so we can be in prayer with you as well.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/30/02 08:51 PM
Petvet,
I am not totally surprised by this but lets find out what the topic of discussion is.. I think it is fair to ask her ahead of time what she wants to discuss - reconciliation, anulment, etc?
Then, lets take it one step at a time... if this is about reconciliation, then obviously there
is alot of work that she is going to need to do/prove before you could agree to even
consider something. For now, I would keep my gaurd up, it is very easy to fall into the
trap and get hurt again, believe me.. and even if she was serious about reconciliation.. sometime the withdraws from the OM are too much to handle, etc..
Let us know.
I am praying for you.
Dave
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/30/02 10:39 PM
Petvet,
Wow...but this meeting could be ANYTHING, right? Don't jump to any conclusions. I agree with Dave, ask what the purpose of the meeting is. There are a zillion different scenarios going through my head, as there are in yours too, probably. If the meeting happens, it will be a great time for your reserved, cool demeanor to shine through. Don't let your emotions slip through unless you want them to. Relady was right, don't be intimidated by the pastor, but do listen to what he has to say and judge it yourself.

When is the meeting? I'd like to be praying for ya!

TMCM ...Do you somehow have access to the Amway personnel roster?? I heard it had been missing, LOL

<small>[ October 30, 2002, 04:40 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/31/02 04:53 AM
Hi all!

Thanks for your responses. I don't know what my w wants to talk about. I will ask her what the topic of discussion is. If the pastor tries to talk me into letting w back into the house, I will tell him why I am cautious. I am sure she has given him a slanted story. Keep in mind that I have been trying to get her to resolve our problems for over five years. I am very guarded. I have no idea when the meeting is; she has to make an appointment. I'll let you'll know.

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/31/02 01:20 PM
Petvet,

Well, well, well!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

OK, here is what you need to do. Yes, please do ask what the meeting will be about. Please do be open-minded to her response, as it could be about a reconciliation attempt or it could be about a friendly divorce. Either way, you owe it to yourself and your son to hear her out.

My thought is what it has been all along. Your W has not 100% left your marriage emotionally, Petvet. She just wants to spend too much time at your home, around you and with the "family". Can't you see that this still meets an EN need for her? She may not recognize it as such, however. Those WS/divorced folks who want to remain friends want this - for you to continue to meet their ENs in whatever ways they want. This is what I see with your W. I am also sure she wants you to continue to meet her financial needs, as well.

Go to the meeting, but that does not mean a stopping of the legal process, until you have a REASON - a GOOD REASON to stop it.

Reconciliation attempts do NOT necessarily mean restoration of marriages. Yet, I think from oservation on this board for the past 3 years, most marriages are restored and made better when there is sincere effort by both parties towards reconciliation. That doesn't happen the first day reconciliation begins, either. But, eventually, when both put in the effort, the results begin to show. Both of you want to be sure before the divorce goes through that all efforts have been exhausted, and in your case, your W has never even tried to reconcile with you, yet.

Push for this meeting as soon as you can before the 11/7 court date!!!

MANY prayers coming your way today!!!!!!!!!

RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/02/02 06:45 AM
Hi All,
I just wanted to say that this thread is coming up on it's "one year" anniversary in about 13 days.
I also need to let you all know that I appreciate you all being here... wish it was under better circumstances.
Petvet...
Anything developing as of yet concerning your meeting?
My prayers are with you my friend.
Hope everyone has a good weekend!
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ November 01, 2002, 12:47 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/02/02 11:15 AM
Petvet, any updates on the meeting with your wife?

Wallace, how many dates do you have this weekend? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (sorry, couldn't resist, just teasing)

I will see H this afternoon and am open to talk to him about son wanting to spend his inheritance to purchase land from weird guy--from another thread... see Separation/Involvement w/kids=contradictory?-- I think I will play it by ear, and see what kind of mood H is in. But I am more open to telling him now than I was when I posted it.

Hope y'all have a great weekend! The leaves are turning here in NC and it's beautiful.

<small>[ November 02, 2002, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/02/02 12:58 PM
Hi all!

Thanks Wallace for reminding me about the one year anniversary. I knew it was close to a year. As Wallace said I wish it was under better circumstances.

Not only has w not told me about a meeting date, she called yesterday to ask me whether I knew about anyone hiring. Her department is being downsized in February. Acoording to her, her department will be receiving their despensation packages on Tuesday. As I said before, I wonder about her sincerity in reconciliation. She told me that she has to find another job; she said that she may have to work in a grocery store. I told her several years ago that she needed to get more education, but after about a year of studies, she dropped out of school. I know several people that have been unemployed for over a year.

Avondale: Please don't let your son waste his inhertiance. I recommend that you tell him that if the money is squandered it will not be replaced.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/03/02 10:10 PM
Hi Y'all, I know this is longer than my usual posts, but I have a dilemma.

On Saturday, H came by with support check. He brought up the fact (which I had reminded him of several weeks ago per S Harley) that we never had a chance to "talk" about our marriage (and I had felt he "owed me" a reason). You may recall, he has not really told me anything serious enough to warrant separating after 25 yrs, just vague babble. He wants to talk this Thursday evening. Originally he wanted to go to a restaurant, but I've had second thoughts due to the fact I might get emotional. I haven't had any outbursts from the very beginning, when he mentioned OW 15 months ago. But at this point, I think I might. So I'll offer him dinner at home, or to come over after dinner. Remember, we are somewhat guardedly friendly, but not friends (thanks to RMA's definition <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ).

I could really use some advice. I have no idea what he will say. He is still totally in fog. I have NO illusions that he is going to say something about getting together. He seems happy in his own little world, and to be VERY honest here, I think I am a happier individual now that he's gone. I realized a month ago that I no longer love him (the person he has become). I believe I could love him again, but he would need to make a very radical lifestyle change for that to happen. I hadn't realized how oppressed I had become, feeling like I never measured up to his academic standards, he was drinking quite a bit, and -most importantly- the foundation of our marriage was one based on a very strong walk with God (which he no longer has at all, nor does he desire). Sooo...here are my questions, which I'd like feedback on, if you can:

1) Do I want to know details about the OW and her family (or if she has one)? This may be my only chance to ask, would I always wonder in the future about her?

2) Am I wrong for not feeling I should "push hard for" reconciliation? I know it seems against MB principles. Above all else, I DO want to be able to look back and feel I did everything possible to make it work. But H told Steve Harley that I was meeting his EN's and didn't LB, and he had nothing to complain about too much, so there isn't a lot of material here for me to improve upon. Unless he changes that story, ultimately, it's up to him and he's calling the shots. But then part of me thinks, "If we DID get together, even just to talk, could we work on things? Could God use me somehow to get through his fog?"

My personal opinion is that he is unhappy because he is not in the same place spiritually that he once was. He's an adult, and only he can make that right. (I don't want to preach, not sure if we all share the same religious views here. But suffice it to say, he's done a 180 from what we believed for the last 25 years. My beliefs are the same, but he's taken a MUCH more liberal view of all Biblical interpretation, including divorce.)

So Petvet, we both have big days on Thursday. Thinking of and praying for you will help take the edge off what might be coming for me. If anyone has time to answer, I'd appreciate it.

<small>[ November 03, 2002, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/03/02 11:32 PM
avondale,

WOW! What a thread this is turning into! You know, you are being given a chance here. A chance to peek inside the brain and heart of your H, as he obviouisly has something he wants to share with you.

Meet with him and have an open heart and an open mind, avondale. Like I told Petvet, this could be a meeting to begin ending things or to "feel out" reconciliation. You won't know until you go and listen to what he says.

I will give you this piece of advice, avondale. You are not required to come away from this meeting with any final decisions about anything! Please remember that! Do not commit to anything - divorce or reconciliation, until you have a decision firmly planted in your own heart. This is a meeting for your H to talk and share some things with you. You can react, but try not to ask too many questions at this point. He wants to talk....so let him. Please let him lead the tone of the meeting. He will likely share more with you without you asking then if you ask a question or 2 every few minutes.

As for you asking questions about the OW - look, sometimes I wish I had never had the urge and need to know so much about her. It HURTS to have your H talk about the OW. Just be sure you can deal with any info you might receive, before you go asking for it.

I don't think pushing your S for anything ever works, avondale, especially when it comes to reconciliation. If he isn't ready and you "push", you just get a half-baked effort that is doomed to fail. If you want, you sure can let him know that you are still open to reconciliation, if you truly feel you are.

Pray that God will give you wisdom, courage and fortitude! You are likely to need them all!

RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/04/02 05:24 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I think it's interesting that your H wants to meet with you. I would recommend that you play it by ear. Based on his demeanor, you will know what question to ask. You just need to be open minded with no expectations. I wish you luck.

Me: Today was a bad day. As you well know, w asked me on Wednesday whether I would be interested in meeting with her pastor. I had not heard of any response. On Friday, she called to ask me whether I knew of anyone hiring because she was going to be laid off early next year. She told me that she was going to be receiving her despensation package on this Tuesday. Well
yesterday, she called to tell me that she wanted to pay a visit to see kid and to speak with me. She came by this afternoon and immediately started playing with kid. After a while, she spoke with me and asked me whether I wanted to stay married to her. I told her is but we would need to fix the problems we had in marriage first. She agreed to see pastor or marriage counselor. She was acting real nice. About a hour later, she said that she needed me and her to come to a sign agreement concerning cs to avoid Thursday's hearing. When I told her that I was not going to sign anything and intended to follow through with the hearing, she got very angry in front of the kid and proceeded to argue with me about money. Kid was very upset. She immediately lefted the house. I tried to talk to her down stairs in the garage with reason, but she got even angrier and responded with "FORGET YOU" as bolted from the house. She says that she does not have any money to pay me. She has thrown all financial issues involving kid and joint obligations on my shoulders. I told her that she keeps complaining about not having any money to help me, but she won't even help me with half of the kid's doctor and medication expenses. We are talking about co-pay amounts of twelve, ten dollars etc. It does not appear that she is being genuine. I knew that I was being set up. After w left, kid said, "you and mom were fussing, I thought you and mom were friends". I kept hugging him. I am furious at my w's actions. I feel as though she was putting on a pretense in order to better herself financially.

Later.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/04/02 11:33 AM
Hi all again!

Part II A of this saga: In retrospect after a restless night, yesterday was the third time w has tried to get me to sign some sort of agreement prior to a court hearing or mediation. This is prime proof that she has not change one bit. What made me even angrier was the fact that she said the reason she wanted to reconcile was because the kid said that he missed his mom and wanted her back home. Granted I don't doubt that fact, but he has wanted his mom home since the day she lefted. Where I come from people used the term "through". Well, w is "through" in my book.

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/05/02 06:52 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a great weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale,

It's great that your H wants to talk about your marriage. I'm sure you're running a gammit of emotions right now. IMHO, I would not try to figure out what he's going to say, you'll drive yourself crazy.

Can you handle knowing about the OW at this point? And how will knowing benefit you? Two important questions.

Be a good listener, and don't think too much about how you will answer. Pray before the meeting and allow the Lord to use you. If it's reconcilation you should push for, He will let you know. So again, I say remove emotions and be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Petvet,

Isn't it interesting how the Lord will reveal things to us when we're patient <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If we're just quiet and listen, He will handle all those sneak attacks. I believe your wife wanted the meeting with the Pastor for you to sign the agreement before the hearing. I guess she'll use anyone to get what she wants.

Sorry your son had to hear. Hugging is good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Me,

Nothing new, still no contact. Oh well <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Wallace,

Kidnapped again, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RMA

I love the way you allow the Lord to use you in your posts here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Davepr

How are you? Where did you disappear to?

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/05/02 06:54 AM
Petvet,
I'm soooooo sorry that happened, but better now than later. I guess you were right all along, and you've seen your W for what she really is. It's too bad your son had to witness her at her worst. (How old is he, I forget??) If she doesn't pay, will you be able to handle things financially by yourself? Is it a matter of principle that she help with co-pays, or more than that? I am glad today is a new day for you after yesterday! Hopefully Thursday will go in your favor!

<small>[ November 04, 2002, 12:56 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/04/02 07:07 PM
Hi All,
Sounds like there is quite a bit going on all of a sudden.
avondale...
Ditto to what RMA and Petvet has stated concerning your upcoming meeting with your "H".
Prior to meeting with your "H", say a good long prayer asking the Lord to lead and direct you through your meeting.
I would prepare yourself mentally for this meeting and work a good plan A., no matter what comes forth during the course of your meeting.
I'll be saying prayers for you, and I hope it's a meeting that moves things in a positive direction for you.
How many dates did I have this weekend?
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I had... let me think... I had two actual dates with my "lady friend". We had dinner out on Friday night, and she made me a very nice dinner at her home on Saturday. It was a very nice weekend and I'm looking forward to a lot more to come.
I told you I would keep you up to date <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Petvet...
As much as I hate to say this... IMHO, I think your wife is trying to play you by the sounds of it.
She appears to be a financial mess... much like my exW is.
My exW use to come back and reconcile with me only to try to get her financial ducks in a row and still carry on her "A" behind my back.
I'm seeing a very similiar pattern starting to try to develop here with your wife.
Your wife is acting much the same as mine did when she first started her garbage up... be careful.
RMA, Dave, EC, and relady... I hope everything is going well for you today.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/05/02 12:30 AM
Hi all!

Everyone: Thanks for your concerns. My kid is six, and I really feel bad that he had to hear the fuss. I am going to try to stay clear of w.

Avondale: In response to your ?, paying part of co-pays and medical is part of mediation agreement which she has not obided by which is the reason for the court hearing on Thursday.

Wallace: Two more dates! Hmmmmmm. Sounds interesting.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/06/02 06:46 AM
Hi Everyone.. hope all is well... just have a minute as I am at work..
Petvet, sorry you are going through this...
Avondale, I hope your talk goes better..

Me, well biker W called and left a long message on home voice mail today about sorry it has been so long since they have talked, when can they get together, etc... guess we know what happened to the letter...

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/05/02 08:11 PM
Hi All,
Petvet...
I think it's a good idea to stay clear of your "W" and let the hearing go through on Thursday.
After the hearing ask your wife if she still wants you to meet with her and her Pastor.
That should give you a pretty good idea of what she may or may not be up to... I think you are pretty well dialed into her antics at this point.
Wish you all the best during your Court hearing, and I'll be saying prayers.
relady...
We must of cross posted yesterday.
I'm sorry to hear that you still have had no contact with your "H"... I know how difficult it is when you are in the position that you are in.
You are holding up well under the circumstances... keep up the good work and let the Lord carry you through this.
My prayers are with you.
Oh, and one more thing... I was kidnapped <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Dave...
It appears that you have one option open to you.
The next time your biker friends wife calls, ask her if she got the letter you mailed to her, and when she says, "no"... just read the letter to her over the telephone... that way you know she got the letter.
Hope everything is going well for you.
EC...
If your out there let us know how you are making out.
avondale...
How are you making out? I know you must be getting nervous with your meeting coming up in the next couple of days. Stay focused on the Lord and may his will be done... my prayers are with you as well... I can only imagine what you must be feeling.
RMA...
I hope your day is going well
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/05/02 10:12 PM
Hi all,

I'm fumming right now, not a good day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I sent my YD a TV for her b-day, I emailed my exw to tell YD it will be there today, YD and OD knew this 1 week ago. Exw tells me they're all taking a couple of days to visit the city they're moving to Jacksonville,FL, which this was news to me the last I heard about it she said it was a possibility at the first of the year.

I tell her well the package will be there today, she says Oh, I'll take care of it, she's at work at the time.

I look at my tracking number online from UPS and it reads "Attempted to deliver, Occupants Moved, no residents"?. I called UPS to see if exw wife arranged something they said no, I also asked why they would say such a thing and they said, either the house shows empty, no cutains on windows with for rent sign or new residents said no one here by that name.

I tried to get a hold of exw but can't, remember were 1,200 miles apart. Currently she's traveling.

So I had to have UPS ship it all back to me and I am not a happy camper. She could have told them today to hold package, give a different address or did something proactive on her part for my YD. Why come she did tell me she moved out of the house? She said they were taking 2 days to look at schools and apartments and gave me the impression she would be back in 2 days at same address....I don't understand, exw said nothing, she just let the package drift without any concern.

I wish I didn't have to deal with her.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/05/02 11:45 PM
EC
It's always possible that UPS made an error....or your address was missing some little part that made it undeliverable. It's understandable that you'd be "fuming" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . A TV was a great gift. Will you be able to let your YD know you tried to send it? (Can you call your OD, or something??) If you re-send it, make sure you make copies of all the UPS tracking stuff from this first delivery attempt and put it inside the box in a sealed envelope addressed to your YD. That way she'll know it was sent much earlier, to the old (or wrong address). Did your CS payment problem ever get solved? I'm sorry things have been tough for you lately.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/06/02 01:58 AM
Hi avondale, just an update,

Exw sent me an email stating after box was delivered to house and nobody was there to recieve it said she had to "lie" to UPS and tell them she moved in order for them to ship the package to a different address? I assumed she called from the city she was traveling to. It's a mess, so daughter will get TV in a couple of days.

CS issue - I sent papers to have exw served then sherriff said I left out a form, I thought it was mine, the court sent me two, I thought one was mine and one there's, but all are there's so sherriff is sending it all back to me but as soon as it arrives I'm sending it right back to them same day to serve her, if she doesn't move out of that county before next week Nov 15th, it sounds like she is plowing forward fast. I waiting for to give me a date she is moving, according to our visitation agreement she is not suppose to hide the kids from me, but again they are 17, 18 3/4.

I have a feeling she is corresponding with me from Jacksonville from a friends house instead of central florida, I thought she was at work but I don't think so. I say that because she made a comment that UPS probably thought the house looked empty based on all the packing they've done?

Anyway I'll be glad when part is over, I'm just tired and want off of her rollercoaster. I assume she must have gotten some good job offer to jump so quickly and pull kids out of HS and college and leave her job she's been at for 4 months.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/06/02 02:01 AM
Hi All,

I just had a question for you all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Has anyone here ever used the prayers for restoration of your marriage from restorem.org?

They seem pretty interesting, especially the 'hedge of protection'prayer. Or have you read the book titled, 'God Can and Will Restore Your Marriage'?

Just wanted your opinion.

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/06/02 11:45 AM
Hi all!

Relady: I have read the Restore Marriage book. The book was impressive; however, I though some points made in the book were unrealistic. Their premise totally follows the bible, but my problem is that you open yourself up o a lot of punishment if the WS does not cooperate. That's my opinion.

EC: Is there any legal statement in your divorce papers prohibiting your ex from moving kids around so much? Your ex is unstable. Either you put a stop to this mess or it will continue. You need to get off the rollercoaster.

Wallace: My attorney was furious will she found out what w had done. After what she just pulled, I don't think reconciliation is possible. She cannot be trusted.

Avondale: I wish you luck tommorrow.

Dave: I would tell biker's w over the phone what the contents of letter were.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/06/02 03:37 PM
Hi everyone,
relady...
I have visted the restorem.org site but I didn't read any of their books. I'm curious about the one title, "God Can and Will Restore Your Marriage".
I didn't want my "M" restored the way it was though... I wanted a new "M" the way it could of been.
How are you doing today?
EC...
Quick question... does your exW have full custody of your daughters or do you both share custodial responsibilities? It appears that she is playing duck and run at this point in time.
Petvet...
I can imagine how upset you must be over all of this, and I don't blame you for feeling the way you do.
Good luck tomorrow and let us know how you make out.
Me...
I think the Police are in the process of trying to arrest my exW for the forgeries she committed.
They called my house the other night and asked my "YD" if my exW was there... so that tells me they are on the hunt for her.
Hope everyone has a good day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/06/02 04:12 PM
EC, sorry you continue to have to be on this rollercoaster ride, having children make it that much more difficult.. I hope things get better for you soon.

Guess whom called my cell phone last night on the way home from work... Biker's wife.. she she had been trying to reach Lynn for days now without any luck, she was worried that something happened... so I told her the entire story..
she was shocked and very upset... and first she thought W was making it all up, guess she is in denial... I asked her what motivation W would have for making up such a story, she couldn't come up with a reason.. I think she just doesn't want to face reality but that is her choice not ours.. I expect that I will hear from biker soon, should be an interesting conversation..

Hope everyone else is well..

Oh, one other thing, my position at work was cut... but I am trying to find another job within the company... certainly something I don't need right now... I may not be around too much for the next few weeks.. I am scrambling to find something.. I am hopefully that I can find another job within the company.

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/07/02 06:34 AM
Hi All,

I hope you're having a wonderful day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I slept in this morning, had an emotionally draining day yesterday. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Thank you for your input on the restorem site. I was debating whether I want to order the book.

Avondale,

My prayers will be with you tomorrow when you meet with your H.

Petvet

My prayers will be with you as well. What is done in the dark, God surely brings to light as He did with your stbx <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC

Is it that your wife doesn't want you to know where she is? One of things I find interesting is that WS's are so far in the fog that they don't realize they take 'themselves' with them wherever they go.

Wallace

I'm feeling much better today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I agree with you, I will only accept a new M if it's in God's plan. It is sometimes painful to wait while the plan unfolds. Sometimes, I'm not sure how I should be praying for my situation. The only thing I'm sure about is whichever way it goes it will be for my good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How is your OD doing? My niece said they will be learning the city and attend school in January!!
LOL

Hope everyone else is doing well.

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/06/02 10:38 PM
Wow, lots of activity going on in this thread!

Relady
I haven't heard of either of those books/sites. Although I think I saw a thread about "hedge of protection prayer" a few days ago here at MB. Or was it "hedge of thorns"? You doing OK otherwise?

EC
Petvet and Wallace had good points...what ARE the legal, custodial statements about your exW moving your kids around so much? I agree that you should act quickly when you get those papers taken care of, no telling where she'd be living otherwise. You have been through so much with your kids since you moved far away; how much of what is going on would be allowable through the courts? Are you in contact at all with your oldest daughter?

Petvet
I'll be praying for you...since yours is a court issue, the ramifications are more important than what I have to look forward to (dinner and discussion with H). I hope it goes in your favor; don't forget to post afterwards so we'll know what happened.

Dave
Guess your problem kind of took care of itself since biker's wife called you. I wonder what kind of conversations are going on at THEIR house now? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> LOL What kind of work do you do? I know it would be easiest if you can stay where you are....hope that works out, keep us posted!

RMA
Are you still around?

Me ...Not sure what the plans are for meeting H tomorrow night. He did return my call today to talk about our sick dog, but made no mention of confirming anything about our talk/dinner Thursday. I didn't bring it up either, not sure if I want to be the initiator or not. I'll see if he calls tomorrow. Could be he's in so much fog he just wanted to be able to say he tried to talk but "it didn't work out". We'll see. I'm ready for it, though. I'm feeling pretty strong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ November 06, 2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/06/02 11:55 PM
Avondale,

You're right, it was 'hedge of thorns' something about keeping OW & OM away from WS's <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> However, it didn't sound scriptural to me, and that was the question. Although God kept men away from Hosea's prostitute wife until she returned home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think that was the basis for that prayer.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. As for me, I'm doing better today. I think the being in limbo is getting to me. Although, I know God has a plan, and I'm staying out of His business, it is still a place where I'm not used to being. When all this is over, I'm sure I will have learned how to wait on the Lord for all things. Maybe that's the idea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/07/02 01:10 AM
Hello everyone,

To answer questions - We have joint custody but daughters chose what date's they want to come visit me here because of there age, which has been none so far. I saw both for about 5 mins in May 2002 been apart since Feb 2001.

I'm suppose to know where they are at all times, otherwise its a violation of our visitation agreement. They are free to move around because we are 1,200 miles apart, If I were in the same city and state, it would be different. OD is old enough to move if she wanted close to 19, YD could move late next year if she wanted.

I emailed OD about 2 weeks ago, she responded and said she's opening the sonic resturant now and said that's all she had to say. I emailed her back and asked her what she wanted for her b-day coming up and other questions of how she's doing, but no response back its been 1 week now.

OD and YD still talk in code and hide exw's moves and prowlings, she trained them to do this in Feb 2001 this is part of why my relationship is strained with them. So asking questions about whats happening will only make it worse.

The famous WS line when you're trying to find out there movements they say "Why are you tracking me??" Even if you called to say hi, They know they're wrong but we must remember they are invisible <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I asked exw today when is she moving she said she doesn't know she has to find an apartment. This I don't understand, if she has a job offer they must have a start date set, so something is fishy but she's keeping me in the dark, all I can do is move forward...

I asked her a question if boytoy was still around and I didn't appreciate him or any stranger around my D's. She responded "Anybody I'm seeing is only a stranger to YOU. But we'll rectify that soon". She's hot on getting me to meet up with her somewhere to flaunt her boytoy, she still thinks she'll see me in court but its a telephone hearing....won't she be surprized.....

Anyway TV was delivered to one of her friends in Jacksonville, I don't know if she's there or not for a few days....
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/07/02 01:10 AM
To all,

I am sorry - I am time pressed right now with stuff at work and at home. This is just a busy time in all respects! I have managed to keep up with this amazing thread.

A couplke quick comments:

relady - I have not read the book you mentioned nor heard of it. I have heard of the site, but not been there.

EC, is it possible your exW is in financial distress and having to move due to ducking creditors?? Just a thought. Seems ridiculous to me that she couldn't just accept the TV and move it as one more item in a household.

Wallace, I do think you may be on the right track. Perhaps if your exW gets into serious trouble with the law, it may force the issue of her getting the professional help she needs, which can only benefit your children in the loing run.

Petvet, what is the story on the meeting with the pastor? Did she just nix that because yopu wouldn't give it to her wishes? I(sn't the court date for the settlement/CS issues tomorrow?? I will burn a candle for you tonight (and avondale, too, for her meeting with her H tomorrow as well).

dave, well, I am sure the truth hurt the biker's W deeply, as she may have had no clue whatsoever. It will be interesting to see if he tries to lie his way out of this. No matter, you and your W need to stay away from this couple.

avondale, I pray that things go well tomorrow. I will have my candle going in a minute. I will pray for you tonight. Keep your ears and heart open. Your role is to listen, even when it hurts!

Love you all, RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/07/02 04:50 PM
Hi everyone,
Petvet...
You are probably in the Court room as I write this... let us know how you made out.
avondale...
I'll be saying a prayer for you today, and hope your evening with you "H" goes well.
Dave...
Well by the sounds of it, you will either hear from the biker dude, or you won't hear another word on it. That type of friend you don't need... I would stay clear of them... that has "trouble" written all over it.
relady...
I can relate to what you are feeling about being in "Limbo".
What you are going through is one of the cruelest aspects of it all. It's bad enough that you have to deal with all the garbage that they have brought forth in the marriage, but then they add the additional pain by not contacting you to at least end the "M" with some sort of dignity.
I learned to wait on the Lord, and let his will be done. It wasn't easy, and to this day it's still not easy... but I'm doing the best that I can all things considered.
It will get to you over time, that's when you have to hand it over to the Lord, as Satan is very busy at those paticular points in time.
Stay the course and keep God as your focus.
I haven't heard a word from "OD" as of yet. She has called and has talked with my S and YD several times... but it's usually when I'm at work. So no word from her yet as far as any conversation with me.

EC...
Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't your exW already in violation of the visitation agreement by the actions that she is putting forth at this time (the run, hide... the highlander way)?
Hopefully in time this will eventually straighten itself out. Are any of your daughtes planning on getting together with you during the holidays?
Prayers and blessings to you EC... you have been through quite a bit. I hope it will start getting better for you as time moves on.
RMA...
Take a little time for yourself when you can... sounds like your life is as hectic as mine.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/08/02 04:02 AM
MY UPDATE...meeting was very civil, even somewhat friendly, with hubby. Fortunately I haven't lost my cooking skills even though I'm not using them like I used to, LOL. Nothing new was disclosed, he's still in fog. Here are some of the key points, such as they were...

&#8226; He did admit he probably was having a MLC but didn't think that was necessarily a bad thing because the end result might bring him happiness <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

&#8226; He suggested that instead of trying to cram a life's worth of honest talk into one session tonight, to try to get together in a few weeks to talk a little bit more (Not to talk of reconciliation, but for him to explain why he wants separation, and why he was unhappy, probably to help relieve his guilt.)

&#8226; He also admitted that he was VERY depressed until the last month or so. I basically just listened, and kept wondering "who IS this man?" (I know y'all know what I mean!)

&#8226; Oh, and he wants us to be friends....I keep thinking of RMA saying to be friendly, but not friends, which makes so much sense, but the other part of my heart says "What if being friends gets him back on the right track?"

Petvet , hoping the best for you today, what happened???

<small>[ November 07, 2002, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/08/02 02:44 PM
Well, some not so good news from me... Bikers W talked to biker, he had a different story... seem it was mutual and alot more happend than what W told me... I approached W... she finally confessed that it was more and mutual....Although this happend 1.5 years ago, at a time were our marriage was falling apart, W had already met OM and was seeing him without my knowledge, she was having post pardon depression, etc but how do you rebuild a marriage when you continue to lie?
I am furious at both of them. W defense is that she is very sorry for what happened in the past, she cannot change the past, only wants to protect me from the hurt, and has done nothing but try to rebuild this marriage for the last 6 months. I agree that she has put alot of effort into this for the last 6 months and I expect for these lies I couldn't ask for much more, but I am so hurt and so mad, I feel like I did on D-day.
Dave
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/08/02 05:49 PM
Hi All,

I hope you have a wonderful weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale,

I'm glad to see you had a civil conversation with your H. Sometimes those honest talks can be brutal and usually aimed at the BS to (as you said) to relieve guilt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

How does he think a 25 year marriage can be reduced to friendship? I agree with RMA on being friendly. That could also get him back on the right track if the right track is what he wants.

Davepr

Although I'm relatively new at this, I do know people are basically the same and that there is nothing new under the sun. This all happened 1.5 years ago and you've been in recovery since May. IMHO, I believe that since your W is making a superb effort at reconcilation, Putting the past behind you would be good, because as your W said, you cannot change the past. In giving information we all have a tendency to 'leave things out'. No doubt she knew you would find out eventually, but does she have to pay for the rest of your married life? Just a question <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Do you know how many BS's would like to be in your shoes? I say Forgive and Move on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

relady
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/09/02 06:27 AM
Thanks Relady.. I don't want to punish her for this, but we have discussed this in the past and I had hoped that she would of come clean with me.
The hardest thing to rebuild is trust and just when we are making progress then this sets my trust in her back. I do expect that there will be setbacks on the is road to recovery and I guess this is just another one. I just want to get everything out in the open, digest it, heal, and move forward. I told her that I am disappointed that she could not be honest with me when this surfaced a month ago but that no matter what I love her.
Thanks for listening..
Dave
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/09/02 06:28 AM
Dave I was sorry to read your post. I see where you added to your signature line too. I know you feel betrayed. When a couple agrees to work on recovery, is it "a given" that everything is told? Maybe she was trying to spare your feelings...but obviously she lied when you asked her about it more recently. You'll just have to keep your eyes ahead and try to not look back. I'm sure it's hard. I'm so sorry! Relady was right, how many BS would give anything to be in your shoes, even with that going on....

I know you don't need this headache on top of the job situation.

Petvet ......where are you?!?!?

My hope for everyone on this thread is that the weekend brings better times than the week did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/09/02 06:59 AM
Thanks Avondale..
Glad your meeting with H was civil... with him being still in the fog, things just will not make sense.. I remember looking at my FWS and stating I just don't know this person anymore.. it is like they have become some one else, someone you don't care to know...I don't think you come out of depression in 1 month, you have highs and lows and it takes alot of time to come out and you come out a little at a time, my guess is he is still depressed, certainly he would not want to tell you this right. I hope you have a good weekend.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/08/02 08:06 PM
Hi everyone,
avondale...
I'm happy to hear that you and your "H" were able to communicate with each other in a friendly manner.
It's unfortunate that your "H" is using the "MLC" excuse for justifying his behavior. IMHO it is pure selfishness and his being self centered that is the real excuse that needs to be put forth here. I don't mean to be harsh and please don't take this the wrong way... but this is all very much the same old WS "fog" speak.
I know you probably already realize this... and I know that your "heart" tells you to continue meeting with him so you can at least continue with a good Plan A and see what may transpire concerning the outcome of your "M".
IMHO, I would guard your heart as well as your mind... keep the door open to continued communication for as long as you can with your "H" with the hope that he eventually gets back on the right track.
The Lord will leave no doubt in your mind on when it's time for you to walk away from your talks withyour "H".
If it appears that your continued meetings with your "H" is just for his justification of why he is with the "OW"... then you really need to ask yourself the question... "is this beneficial for me and our marriage"?
Hopefully your future meetings with him will lead to putting together a new and improved marriage for both you and your "H". As long as he is still with the "OW" there is not much you can do, but Plan A and work on bettering yourself.
DAVE...
I'm sure it feels just like D-Day all over again.
Red flags go up all over the place when you are in recovery and you catch your wife in a lie. I know the feeling very well, as I caught my exW in many many lies during my many reconciliations. The big difference is... your wife is doing all the right things while in your recovery... mine didn't.
I would let this one pass. I would however pay close attention to any other red flags that may pop up and deal with them on a point by point basis.
One lie, (especially while your in recovery) may lead to another, and another.
I'm assuming that you both went through a "POJA".
I would revist it in a very kind and understanding way, and remind her that you need total honesty in your marriage in order to maintain a complete recovery.
I hope everyone has a good weekend.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/08/02 10:26 PM
Thanks Wallace.... I know I need to put this behind me but it will take some time, right now I can't stop thinking about it, the anxiety is back, I did't eat a bite in over 48 hours, feel like I am going to puke all the time.. guess we all know the feeling.... I even took my old
prescription of Celexa and some anti-anxiety (can't remember the name). W is trying to be nice to my, I am trying not to LB, but to be honest I can't
stand to be around her right now, I know that sounds really bad....I am just a low plus I have the job thing handing over me...
I need to put it behind me, we can't change the past.
Thanks
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/08/02 10:53 PM
Hi Dave,
Getting ready to leave work for the week and noticed your post.
I understand how you feel with the job situation (I had to take a 25% pay cut or get laid off myself) and it's not a good place to be... it's rough out there right now.
I also understand how you feel right now about your wife and not wanting to be around her.
When my exW lied to me when we were in recovery, it just floored me. I was wanting to trust her again and I thought we were both working on building our marriage back to a point where it was going in the right direction and then I would catch her in one lie right after another.
Once you catch them in one (and my exW said she did it so as not to hurt me anymore) it takes everything you worked so hard for and just drops it right back to square one... and you try to rebuild from there.
Hopefully Dave it's just a one time thing, and you both can move past this and rebuild from there.
Be cautious, be careful, because your back to square one for the moment... but you can rebuild it back... it's going to take effort on both you and your wife's part.
Have a good weekend, things will get better.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/09/02 12:52 PM
Hi all! Sorry for the getting back on Thursday, but I had to cool down mentally and physically.

Thursday was a sad day for me. First, I had to sit through two and a half hours of court hearings watching as the judge sent two people to jail for non CS. He was brutal, no mercy. It's amnazing how people get theselves in so much mess. When my case was called, w's attorney just had showed up. He asked judge whether he could consult with his client. When my attorney and I were asked into the conference room, her attorney said that he had been informed that we had an reconciliation. I quickly told him that was not the case. I proceeded to tell him the events of the past week and told him the only way there would be a reconciliation would be if everything was FIXED. I told him that it appears that she wants to come back because of the court hearing and the future lost of her job. Well, it went down hill from there. My attorney wanted to take w before the judge, but I did not want to take the chance of w being sent to jail. I just want her to help me out financially. After going back and forth, her attorney informed us that his client had no money. My attorney and I were
furious. The attorneys consulted for quite a while amongst themselves. We came up with a temporary agreement that is well below 17% minimum support level. My guess is that she won't pay that either. According to her attorney, she is barely making it. As the attorneys hammered out an agreement, w sat on a bench in the hallway crying. It was very sad to see. I stood a distance away shaking my head and asking myself "is w better off now than she was one year ago?". She has lost everything, home, kid, money, etc. All this for the gratification of another man and possibly high octane sex which does not amount to anything now. During the course of the conferences, w would still tell lies which disappointed me to no end. Her attorney told mine that w was not one of his most liked clients, and my attorney does not like her either. At this point, I cannot trust her. My attorney and I are going to try to settle this mess very soon as long as she will agree to the adultery complaint. That's the only way I will get credit for any unpaid moneys. After we finished our business, w rushed out of the court house and quickly drove away. As my attorney and I walked out of the courthouse, she turned to me and said, "you do not need to get back together with her, she only wants reconciliation for financial reasons.". I would also add stability. She recommended I go look at a movie and take it easy.

When she pick up kid yesterday, she was nasty towards me. How can I trust her? She has so much venom towards me.

Dave: I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Without trust, you have nothing. I would continue on the current path; however, I would be very watchful and guard yourself fron anymore hurt. I would tell your w that she must be upfront with you going forward or the reconciliation will not work nor endure the test of time. See, the difference between your w and mine, is that my w has not shown any good gesture towards reconciliation. She has not repent nor apologize for what she has done. She has not done anything in good faith.

Avondale: I would ask you H what does he hope to accomplish from your meetings? Have him to bottom line it for you. You don't want to tread water when there's no direction.

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/10/02 06:05 AM
To all,

This is a post for EVERYONE on this thread!! This is my 2 cents worth....my opinion.

EVERYONE deserves a second chance in life, sometimes even mnore than one second chance, if you know what I mean. We are all imperfect humans. We all have selfish ways and all do things to hurt others, sometimes.

Give your spouses and ex-spouses with whom you still desire to reconcile, some breathing room to make some mistakes along the way. The WS is seldom going to just "wake up" or "snap to" and become a loving, concerned and responsible partner back to you overnight.

Having said that, I now say this: after a REASONABLE amount of time, you have to step back and see when enough is just enough. Some people will continue to use you forever, IF you let them. Guys and girls, each of you needs to search your heart and if necessary, get feedback from others, to determine that time when enough is enough. Each of you have different circumstances - divorce, separations and reconciliation. In my mind, you gotta see some EFFORT after a period of time. Hang in there, friends! Things will sort out one way or another.

I just encourage you to have a plan.....a REASONABLE plan. Use the Harley concepts....Plan A and Plan B, as appropriate. Search your heart for a reasonable time frame and inact the appropriate Plan when and if that time comes.

God bless you all. I will be gone on Monday, but will check in at the end of the week. RMA
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/10/02 05:33 AM
Hi All,

RMA

Your post was very timely. And I have 2 cents worth too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Give your spouses and ex-spouses with whom you still desire to reconcile, some breathing room to make some mistakes along the way. The WS is seldom going to just "wake up" or "snap to" and become a loving, concerned and responsible partner back to you overnight.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, one thing I have noticed on MB is very few BS's mention their part in the marriage breakup. WS's don't just wake up one morning and decide they want to have an affair. They leave the marriage mentally at least one year or more prior to leaving physically.

As far as 'snapping back' overnight, it could happen if they had a heart fix by the 'heart fixer' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I also believe that during recovery, the WS is also being cautious looking for similar behavior from the BS. IMHO, I think this period should be called 'rediscovery', because you are rediscovering the love you had for each other! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And the past should be left there. I know this is not the 'Harley' way, but I believe that constant discussion of the OM or OW is a constant source of pain.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">a REASONABLE amount of time, you have to step back and see when enough is just enough. Some people will continue to use you forever, IF you let them. Guys and girls, each of you needs to search your heart and if necessary, get feedback from others, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, that's true, most people allow themselves to be used for manipulation purposes, in hopes of getting something in return.

What is a reasonable amount of time? Who can say? Matters of the heart are not easily discerned unless it is revealed by God!

For me, this has been a very humbling experience, I have since realized that I made my husband the god of my life and no human can stand that pressure. That's why God reserved that spot for Himself.

I'm sure that if we(bs) would take time out to retrospect and allow God's Word to take root in our hearts we would see many changes. He allowed these things to happen for a reason.

Only when we're content in our trials do we move to the next phase. My Goal!

Remember the Children of Israel, it took them 40 years to make a 7 hour trip. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Why? because all they did was murmur and complain!

Respectfully, IMHO
God Bless You,
relady

<small>[ November 10, 2002, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/10/02 11:28 AM
Hi all!

Everyone: This is my two cents. There is no question that forgiveness is vital in recovery and reconciliation. Yes, all of us on this thread had a hand in our marital problems. I think everyone here knows that point. The issue is this: all marriages are going to have problems. It's going to happen one way or the other. To think that a marriage can past through time w/o problems is unrealistic. All married couples accept that reality when they vow to stay together during good and bad times. The clincher is this: MOST ISSUES ON THIS THREAD OR OVER & ABOVE NORMAL MARITAL PROBLEMS. As a matter of fact, they are downright abusive if you want to know the truth. This is the reason why society, churches, and courts etc. view marital misconduct so seriously because it can become dangerous in some cases and abusive to the marriage in all cases. Keep in mind that we on this thread are human as well and all of us want the best for our marriages regardless of our part in the problems, but we are trying to resolve the issues and our WS are not. Is marital misconduct healthy for a marriage? In my opinion, no. As RMA has said in past posts, we will know when our ws want genuine reconciliation. We know our spouses and can determine whether recovery is possible under the present circumstances. Lastly, we know how much we can endure and tolerate and with prayer have to decide which direction to go.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/11/02 02:29 PM
Hi everyone, first thank you all for your support. RMA, I always appreciate your wisdom.

Well, I have finally cooled down a little, still in somewhat a state of shock but I have to remember that W had pretty well already mentally checked out of the marriage when this happened (doesn't justify it but that is reality), she
wasn't in a good state of mind, wasn't taking her paxil, and was very drunk. Again, this does not justify her actions but does help to understand what was happening at the time.

Since starting reconcilation W has taken her paxil everyday, has not drank at all, has given up going out with her girl friends (atleast to bars) has gone to MC, has done alot of self-help
books/tapes, etc, has tried to meet my ENs, and certainly put alot of effort into helping us heal.
She is truely sorry for her actions, not just this but for everything with OM#1. She can't believe that she did the things she did, she doesn't remember alot of things that she did, says that she can't rembember because of her state of mind at the time. She also wasnt to
go to confession, she has never gone, she also wants to re-new our wedding vows... all positive signs. Although I am very disappointed in her actions of the past, I cannot hold this against her forever.. we are all human.. we all make mistakes, God knows I have made some bad decsions in the past too. Maybe if I was not so focused on
work and had given her more attention and met her ENs or even understood her ENs some of this may not of happened... while I cannot hold myself fully repsonsible... I certainly contributed to our marriage falling apart.. so I did play a part in all of this but I have learned from this experience... I am certainly a much better father that I was before all of this...a much stonger person, and hopefully a better person and a better spouse.

Got to run,
Take care everyone,
Dave
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/11/02 05:24 PM
Wow...everyone is "waxing eloquent" and I think there is truth in what you have all said. I truly appreciate the collective wisdom on this thread.

Dave , I'm glad you've cooled down...You have so many good things going for you during recovery. I'm glad you took time to list them, and that should help keep you from getting hung up in something that happened in a dark time in your marriage. I admire your resolve in working through this.

Wallace , how many dates did you have this weekend? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL

<small>[ November 11, 2002, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/12/02 06:31 AM
Hi All,
avondale...
I had three dates this week. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> One really doesn't count though. We were at a birthday party for one of our friends... and their furnace went out... so I spent almost all night long getting it up and running. So I really don't count that one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Dave...
Glad to hear that you have cooled down. Your wife sounds like she is really putting forth some effort to make your marriage work... you have a lot to be thankful for regarding her continued effort in that area.
Keep doing what your doing, you are on the right track.
Petvet...
It appears that you had a very trying day in court, and I'm sorry to hear that it's turning in the direction that it is. I hope you start seeing some relief from all of this in the not to distant future... you need a break, you've been at this awhile. Hang in there, it has to start getting better.
In response to everybody's comments, I would like to add my .02 cents worth.
I think everyone has made some very valid points... I agree with everything everyone has stated.
My part in the demise of my "M" was the fact that I put too much time into my work, and not enough time into my exW's emotional needs. It was never brought up to me as being a issue, (in fact quite the contrary... according to her everything was "fine") so I never realized that it was a problem until it was too late. It's unfortunate that we sometimes realize things that are sitting right in front of our face too late... but all things happen for a reason IMVHO.
I think Petvet said it well, "MOST ISSUES ON THIS THREAD ARE OVER AND ABOVE THE NORMAL MARITAL ISSUES", as sad as I am to say. Each with our own set of circumstances...
RMA and relady... I agree with all of what both of you have stated. You both hit the nail right square on the head.
Hope everyone has a good day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/12/02 01:03 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: Thanks for your comments. I am tired of this stuff with w. I am ready for this to end, so I can move on to happiness. Boy, you have been very busy with your friend. How does it feel?

Avondale: How are things with you?

Me: I know I played a part in my martial problems. I think my problem started when she wanted baby and I didn't. After kid was born, it appears that w did not like the family lifestyle, and wanted to be single again because she had never been out on her own. Of course, I wish I had known about EN back then, maybe my marriage could have been save. By the time I knew about EN, things were probably too far gone. W always had a problem resolving problems. She is very self centered. My mom told me that she has always had bad vibes about w (and yes, she told me at the beginning, but I did not listen). I have learn so much from the Harley's program. I just hate all this happen because it hurts my son.

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/12/02 05:58 AM
Hi All,

Avondale

I agree with you, this thread is amazing. It has truly been a God sent for me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace,

We're going to call you our 'marathon' dater <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Your new friend must really like you because you've been kidnapped every weekend and there hasn't been a ransom note posted here so you must be a keeper. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Davepr

Sometimes it takes another point of view to see our situation clearer. You really have a lot going for you now. Relax and enjoy it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Petvet

I'm praying that your situation is soon on a lighter side. This whole marriage breakup is such an energy drainer. I can only hope that when I finally have to deal with my H, that I am strong enough, and don't weaken. It's easy to be strong when there is no contact.

relady
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/12/02 04:14 PM
Thanks Relady.. I am sure God will give you the strength to deal with WS when the time comes..

Petvet, so what is next on the legal side? How
was WS last night, has she cooled down any from the court date?

Wallace, glad things are going well with your new friend.

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/13/02 06:29 AM
Hi All,
Petvet...
IMHO, what you are going through is probably one of the worst experiences you might possibly ever face, aside from losing a child... at least it was for me.
It was especially tough on my children... we are still feeling the effects from it all, and I'm sure all of us will for some time to come.
It does get better after you have run the full cycle of the "D"... at least it did for me. It didn't bring me happiness though... there is a sense of emptiness after it is all said and done with. It is at this point that you have to be strong enough mentally and physically to begin moving forward with your life. Picking up the pieces of the aftermath and moving forward in a positive mode.
I leaned very heavily on the Lord throughout all of this... and to this day I still do.
Without the Lord at my side I probably would of been a basket case. It's only because of His blessings that I have been able to become stronger both mentally and in my faith and move in a positive direction for both myself and my children. (side note)... I still have not heard anything from my "OD".
When is your next Court date and what are you expecting to happen when it comes about?
I pray that whatever the outcome... that the Lord smiles down upon your family at all times.
relady...
Marathon dater... hmmmmm... should I change my name?
I think she does want to keep me. My "lady friend" does want a long term relationship... she has indicated that she is in "Love" with me, which completely caught me off guard. I wasn't quite ready for that. I am however finding myself feeling more attracted to her as time goes on... it's somewhat scary. I'm putting God as my focus and using "MB's principals in this relationship. It's a darn shame that I didn't have the ability to do this in my "M".
relady, I think you are very much grounded, both morally and mentally... and even though you are left in a situation that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy (I know exactly what you are going through)... whatever the outcome, you will be a much stronger person for it. By allowing the Lord to take control of your situation, he will lead you to the path that he feels is best suited for you.
Dave...
I hope things are settling down for you some. I still believe that you and your wife will continue to be one of the success stories on these boards.
Stay the course.
avondale...
When I posted that little smirky smiley face I didn't realize that it stuck it's tongue out... so please don't take offense to it, it was not meant for that purpose.
Have you decided to continue meeting with your "H" for future discussions? If you do, I pray that the Lord let's your "H" see what he is truly missing out on.
RMA...
I always look forward to hearing from you... don't stay away for too long.
EC...
If your out there let us know how you are doing.
I hope everyone has a good day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/12/02 08:24 PM
Hi All,

Wallace,

WOW, WOW AND WOW!! I'm dizzy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I wasn't expecting that!! Your 'lady friend' is in Love already? I'm sure that really did catch you off guard. She is one brave lady!

Since she is recently divorced also, do you think she has done the necessary work on herself? Is God first in her life as in yours?

I'm always a little skeptical when one professes love so soon.

IMHO, take it slow, let the Lord be your guide, apply the principals and maybe date other people, after all dating is getting to know someone.

One of the things I failed to do in my M is allow God to be #1 in my life. If I had done that, He would have shown me how to better deal with my H. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . After all He created him and He knew him much better than I did. I could have spared him a lot of nagging and whining!

Sooooo, proceed with caution.

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/12/02 08:27 PM
Petvet , others have asked and I've been wondering too....what is next for you? Do you have another court date? What do you hope will happen? Will you have to get another job if your W doesn't pay CS, or can you handle the financial solution that was worked out?

Wallace , no problem with the <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> It actually would seem appropriate since I've been teasing you about your marathon dates. It did not surprise me AT ALL that she is thinking "long term". (Maybe it's female intuition) I just wondered what YOUR take was on that possibility (with her). It seemed kind of rushed, that's all...and I'm kind of like in "the little sister mode" with y'all since I'm newer on this thread - I would hate for any of you to be hurt more than you already have been.

EC - Haven't heard from you recently...Hope you're OK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Me - My daughter is supposed to be meeting with her dad in the next week or so. It will be their first talk (alone, without her new husband present) since he moved out. She really wants to yell at him, point out his irrational thinking, etc.. I don't know whether to encourage that or not, so I'm keeping quiet. I do plan on talking to him myself again, maybe before Thanksgiving, to give my opinion and a rebuttal on the things he said last week. He is such a classic, textbook case of MLC it's laughable. Except he doesn't have a little red Miata sports car, LOL
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/13/02 05:12 AM
Hello Everyone,

Haven't been here lately man I was trying to catch up on eveyones post. Not much going on. Today would have been our 19th Aniv. Looking back she was having an EA during our 17th so 3 aniv's passed with someone in the picture, not as painful as it used to be. Last year I sent her a card, this year I let it passover. Knowing her she's probably looking at last years card. I took some time to step back and look at things and its time move to the next phase of life.

Petvet - I'm sorry to see you have to go through that with your W. Just when your ready to bring the hammer down you see they're already crumbling and you have compassion wanting to leave them at rest only to find later they regroup find strength and bite you back despite your kindness, protect yourself as much as possible.

Davepr - I understand how you feel about "like d-day" all over again, despite the temp pain, I guess you can be happy she's trying...I think after you give it time, she'll remember how she got stung so bad being a WS she'll never go back to that, she realise how far she's come and peaceful it is living a honestlife verses the pain she lived in before being WS.

Wallace - I know how you feel don't jump to fast. It's flattering to know a woman is in Love with you after all this time. When a man has been rejected and cheated to the extent of many here you think it's almost impossible for a woman to ever fall in love with you or be attracted. If I were you I would get the book "Mars and Venus on a date". This will let you know what stage you are at and what stage she is at. Not trying get in your business but I think you are doing fine but at this stage for her, is this a [Rebound]??..Not saying she is a bad person or anything but if you're used to being in love, you love that feeling and you'll express those emotions to someone you just trusted in even if you barely known them, you just love being in Love. I'm not saying what either of you feel is not real, but that word " Love " can mean many things, I would just dig and examine what emotional needs you are meeting of hers to push her over the edge? Thats when they spew it out you know.You don't have to make those teenage mistakes when you were younder, now you have the ability to control how you feel and what you'll do. Wallace I think you're just Mr Money Bags feeling her bank, see what doing your homework produced? I think men that have been betrayed/divorced and studied have a stronger dose of love bank deposits than we realise. I remember the lunch date I went on months ago, she bout jumpped me, I only treated her how a woman she be treated.

Avondale - Don't be disappointed if your H don't produce what you think he should.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/13/02 07:19 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: I think EC is right. You have done your homework well, and you are filling your friends love bank very quickly. I will be a little cautious with your friend falling for you so quickly. Keep up with the good work.

Avondale: It will be interesting to see how your H reacts to your daughters comments.

Dave: Stay the course.

Relady: Are you taking a wait and see position?

Me: I am finishing up my response to my w's interrogatory that I am taking to my attorney's office later today. W's attorney is going to try to get her to accept an adultery agreement to we can bring this mess to an end. The adultery agreement will help me get an annulment. In my Diocese, annulments can be difficult to get in a timely manner. Hopefully, there will not be any more court dates unless to approve a final settlement. I just receive notice that she purchased merchandise using an account under my name that she has not paid off the balance. I need to go: bed time.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/13/02 08:09 PM
Hi All,
relady...
It does make you dizzy... doesn't it? I know it threw me for a loop when I heard my "lady friend" say that to me.
She is currently working on herself allowing God to lead her life and to put the Lord as her focus and #1 in her life. She is also currently following "MBers" principals as well.
I have told her that I am not currently ready for any real commitment as of yet, and she indicated that it was understandable... so I'm trying to take it slow... real slow.
I'm being very cautious.
I'm like you... I had God as #1 in my life as well as my "M", but I started to drift away and not stay consistant in my faith... it was a very costly price that I paid for drifting away, and I vowed I would never let that happen ever again.
How are you holding up? I know the road your on very well... and I hope and pray that the Lord will lead you to a better circumstance and situation.
avondale...
You can be in the "little sister mode" all you want... LOL. I never had a little sister to look after me, so if you feel I need a good nudge to straighten me out... feel free to give me a good nudge.
I think I'm more worried about me hurting her, than I am about her hurting me. I don't want to build up false expectations for anyone, only for them to find out I can't fullfill their needs. That... at this point in time is my greatest concern.
Your intuition was correct... how did you know? It caught me way off base... as I wasn't ready to hear those words being uttered to me.
IMHO, I think it is perfectly acceptable for your "D" to meet with your "H". It gives her an opportunity to let her feelings be known, which I believe is something she needs to do for herself (vent if need be). I hope your talk goes well with your "H" as well... remember to try not to use any "LBs" during the course of your conversation with your "H". You most probably want him to see you at your finest... make him wonder... and give him reason to rethink what he has done.
Say a prayer before you talk with your "H", and let God give you the ability to convey the things that you would like to put forth.

EC...
Sometimes when we reflect back to times that we had in our "M" and see what we were putting up with... it sometimes makes it easier to move forward with our lives. It appears that you are doing just that.
Thanks for recommending the book... I'll have to go and check that out.
It is quite amazing to see that when you apply the "MBer" principals and put God as your focus how attractive we evidently become. I never had an opportunity to try any of the MBer principals in my marriage, and I definately don't want to make the same mistakes in my past "M", so I have just been "walking the walk", rather than "talking the talk" and it seems to be working out rather well... almost too good.
Could this be a "rebound" relationship for her? It very well could be... that's why I am not getting too emotionally involved at this point in time... my guard is way up.
I still wish I had had the opportunity to apply all of this in my marriage though... but like you, I need to keep moving forward.
Thanks for the insight.
Petvet...
You need to be careful with your wife and your finances... it can really set up a real hornet's nest for you if your not careful.
It appears that your getting ready to come to a conclusion on your end as well concerning your "M". My prayers are with you and your son as I know this is a very difficult time.
You will make it through this regardless of the outcome... and you will indeed come out a much stronger person for it. It's just a darn shame that you had to end up in the same boat as many of us here have.
We can walk away from it knowing that we gave it the best that we could, and all we can do is try not to fall into the same thing as far as any future dealings.
Oh, and by the way... your right... I have done my homework... LOL.
RMA and Dave...
I hope everything is going well for both of you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 11/14/02 01:20 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"I have told her that I am not currently ready for any real commitment as of yet, and she indicated that it was understandable... so I'm trying to take it slow... real slow.
I'm being very cautious."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Wallace.

You are wise in telling her this and she is lucky to have a friend like you.

Keep up the good work.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/14/02 04:55 PM
Hi Guys and Gals,

Hope everybody is doing Great!! Today is a new day and we must explore it, this day has never occured and new things and treasures are in it for everyone.

Well I sent CS papers back to sherriff and they said everything is complete and they'll serve exw now, hopefully she still lives in same city and county. Once they complete that process then I can send those papers to the court for a court date, then its all down hill from there. Praise God!!

I had to play at this christian event and met a well known TV Actress there, she saw my group perform. I can't say who it is for the sake of privacy, but I had a chance to talk to her and she told me she recently left a popular show because they wanted her do a sexual bedroom scene, she said No, she feels her role in the industry is to build up marriages and families not tear them down, I was excited for her, she's very nice and on fire for the Lord!! Its nice to see somebody cares and stands for integrity in hollywood. Anyway I took some pictures with her and for my kids, they seen her on TV weekly. She told me to email her and she'll personally email me back and she did the next day, its really from her and she remembered me, she thanked me. Ok, guys nothing happening, I think I'm just making a friend. Now that's a big 180 degree turn from all the rejection from a WS, you never know who might think you're worth talking to, Hummmm?

The WS leaves you to feel like your address is (0) zero, you ain't going nowhere, you live on a street called nowheresville and your face looks like ET with your finger sticking out and mumbling phone home <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Oh yel, I've been there!

I enrolled in a Community College yesterday taking up some business classes starting in Jan, I'm not seeking a degree but just for sharping my entrepreneur skills for a certficate program.

It's time to move past what exw did, I felt after my aniv day this week and burying it I crossed into a new area of life, can't explain it, I just know I did.

YD daughter left me message she finally got her TV, I'm happy for her.

Take Care Everybody
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/15/02 06:14 AM
Hi All,

It sounds like everyone on this thread is starting to heal very nicely and fast becoming movers and shakers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

PetVet

In answer to your question:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you taking a wait and see position?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It doesn't feel as though that is what I'm doing. An associate of mine said that it seems like we're playing games to see who calls who first. My answer to her was this is not a game!

Although it has been a relatively short separation from my 'H', The Lord has given me such a peace about it, that I feel it is normal.

Before I got married, I took care of myself, I've owned my own business and home for quite sometime . After getting married I became this helpless, dependent, needy whiner because somewhere in my mind I thought men wanted to feel needed. DUH? I didn't realize how much I had really changed until he left and I realized it had been all about pleasing him and leaving myself out. So, in finding myself again, My love for the Lord, my business, my family, my friends, my church have become important to me again and that is what I mean by 'normal'. I have come to myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Don't get me wrong, I'm still praying for the restoration of my M, but it is not my battle, I've given it up. And I really don't want to deal with the deception he is obviously still in or the 'fog' as it is called here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

When and if the Lord arranges an opportunity for me to see or talk to my 'H', I want him to truly see a different woman than the one he left. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> If I were an emotional wreck, it would mean that the Lord can't handle this situation and I know He can and will.

Short question, long answer. LOL

Wallace,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How are you holding up? I know the road your on very well... and I hope and pray that the Lord will lead you to a better circumstance and situation.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for your concern. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> The above is your answer as well. I know you've been where I'm going and I appreciate any and all advice. But I guess there is not much to do until there is contact with the far off land. LOL

Avondale

Glad to see your D is meeting with your H. She can give him a piece of your mind without you actually saying anything. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Daughters can get away with anything when it comes to dad.

EC

I see you're coming to yourself again as well.

RMA, Davepr

Hope you're both doing well.

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/15/02 06:49 AM
Hi all,
TMCM...
Thanks for the compliment... I'm slowly finding myself starting to pull back from any serious relationship. I just don't think I'm ready for anything like that quite yet.
Good to hear from you... I hope everything is going well.
EC...
You sound in good spirits!
I'll bet that was pretty exciting meeting a famous actress, especially one that has some morals (they are rare).
I'll bet you were somewhat shocked to find that she emailed you back after you emailed her.
I didn't know you played in a band. When I was in college I played bass guitar in a band that helped pay my way through school... "oh, the good old days"... LOL.
You know what? You do feel like an old ugly ogre or like the "Grinch" when all this happens to you. It really drops you to your knees. You feel like your the ugliest and worse person on the planet. The Hunch Back of Notre Dame... "Quizimoto" (sp?) could beat you in a beauty contest, that's how you feel... " yep... I've been there too!
I'm glad to hear that your daughter finally got her T.V.
I'm getting ready to go down the CS payment issue here real soon. Got final orders yesterday, so I will probably be attaching to the exW's paycheck in the next couple of months... oh what fun. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Petvet...
Your thread has been going exactly one year to the day today. I wish none of us were here... but with what we all have been going through I'm sure glad I found all of you and everyone else on MBers.
Hope everyone has a great day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/14/02 07:03 PM
Hi everyone, I am in down in Atlanta today on business, going back home tomorrow... Hope everyone is well...

One Year for this thread.. wow... I went back and read some of the old posts.... it is truly amazing..

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: BetrayedByMyBestFriend Re: Tough Love - 11/15/02 04:18 AM
Hi I've gotten half way through this Thread it is Helping me soo much.
Dr Laura's Books and radio show is really good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
too thought I would add that.
Dave told me about this thread Thanx Dave..wow alot of very helpful info here!!!
My eyes are starting to get fuzzy now after reading for hours..but will post more tomarrow.
My story is below... anyone have any advice on my situation??!!!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I'm to the end of my rope..help!!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/15/02 05:16 PM
Hi Guys and Gals,

Well its the weekend and less than 2 weeks from Thanksgiving.

In reflecting back this year, despite what has happened to everyone here, did many of you accomplish any goals you set for year 2002? I know I did and exceeded more than I expected. Have you planned for 2003?

The more I'm seeing things the lighter I feel, I wanted my exw back so bad in the beginning and even after almost two years recently thought it was a possibility. She was my highschool sweetheart, I never saw myself with nobody but her for life. I know it sounds crazy but I think she might have done me a favor by leaving, since she was unwilling to change her ways. She loved debt I didn't, I'm $6,000 from being totally debt free now, I can't function mentally under debt, it robs me of who I am, thats why a big part of my marriage fell, it stole who I was...I believe when I buy my house, I won't pay for it for 30 years, I know the real estate investment ways now......So starting over is possible life is not over but beginning...

Wallace: Yes, her emailing me back was nice, I thought she would have had somebody that handled her fan mail respond or something, but it was her, she's down to earth. It was odd you know, how you approach people like that and you're not sure if they want to be bothered with talking or taking pictures, but she started talking to me openly right off and she was eager to take a picture together, I was kinda flattered thinking, she wants to be seen with me?? They took the picture with my camera just as they announced she was still over there and the crowd turned around and stared at her and me in smiles like who's he?, like I was her special guest or something?? [We had our arms around each other] She said eveybody else had to buy there picture and she'll sign them. I was like wow.
The Lord has been so good to me in ALL this betrayl and divorce stuff, I can't think of a day when he hasn't blessed me with his love, despite my unbelief and despair at times, The Lord believe's in me more than I believe in myself, he has so many good things ahead that it takes leaving the past behind, live in the present, begin to walk in the future.

Yep Wallace as I always BS's are made to feel ugly, but as you've seen over time many BS's are very nice looking people and have a lot to offer, make's you wonder why some WS's go to something less, there loss I guess...I think some BS's are treasures waiting to be discovered and when that happens oh what a treasure you have.....

A Gold digger seeks to grab all they can get, till they deplete you...

A treasure hunter finds the beauty of the element [you] and proudly displays what they found to have everyone celebrate its beauty, they say see what I found and begin to tell the world....

BS's need a treasure hunter in there lives not a gold digger...

***********

To BBMBF -

Seeing what you've gone through its very tough, leaving is hard because of the time of the relationship, however I was 17 she was 16 when we first started dating despite we even lived on the same block growing up. So we were married 17 yrs together 21yrs and then she has her A's in 2000. She's 38 and I'm 40 now. I rather her messed up back then than now.. Your husband seems self-centered right now being in the music business he's driven with "I got to make it big, no matter what", even if it means eliminating my wife and kid. The money is all mine because I'm going to make it big one day, forget the bills and responsibilities...and then you're broken and ripped...no one needs to be abused

He has the cart before horse, he'll be lonely and miserable guy in the process...He'll regret losing you, you're not an ugly person, but you still need to work on you and discover what you could be better at.

You say you're a christian and when he came to the Lord you tried to help him grow. I think that's where we mess up sometimes, we see somebodys potential, we see them not as they are but what they could be, we get behind them nurture them only to see them go back to the pigpen they came from, Its almost like putting suit and necktie on a pig and say here now you'll eat steaks and take a bath for now on, all the while the pig is meditating on how good it felt in the mud , then leaves and says this is for the birds, they jump ship....

You run to the pigpen behind them broken and can't understand begging and pleading and only to find them and see the sign that says "Pigs Only" thats where you find OW/OM/OP in there, just a dirty muddy stink hole with a strong stinch,... until they're ready to come out and get clean and change, nothing you can do. Many people get the verbage from WS's...Oh can't we be friends, while I'm in here? They get arrogant and say Oh, Yes you're in my territory now and treat you loike scum. As Nancy Regan said " Just So No to drugs" ooops ,I mean to pigs in mud....

They just need to come clean...You have a good future ahead if you trust in the Lord, he does not ever forsake you, he is FAITHFUL!!

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/15/02 05:28 PM
Hi Betrayed,
Welcome to Petvet's thread... you've read through half of this thread? That is a lot of reading... I'll bet your eyes are still trying to get back to normal.
I read your story... like many of us here... you have surely been run through the mill.
I'm assuming that you are working a Plan B., am I correct in that assumption? If your not... IMHO, I would go into a Plan B.. and cease all contact with your "H" until you start seeing some complete and positive changes coming out of your "H".
IMHO, your "H" is a very cruel person based on what I've read so far. He is also very selfish, and self centered. The question you have to ask yourself is... "is this the type of person that I want to spend the rest of my life with"... as well as having your son be associated with?
Right now you need to start looking out for what's in the best interest of you and your child. Associating with your "H" at this stage in his life is not condusive to a very healthy atmosphere for either you or your child.
His actions indicate that he is heavily involved in drugs as well as alcohol. I would seek an AL-Anon group for this... as the support there is quite significant.
In order for you to have any type of a marriage... your "H" has to want, and get the help that is required of him. Without him doing that... you are just setting yourself and your child up for a life of pure hell.
There is nothing you can do for him at this stage... you can only help yourself and your child to heal and become stronger. Seek out some support groups... "Divorce Care", Church groups, Al-Anon, an 'IC", or if you can afford it... counsel with the Harleys on this site.
Your "H" is playing a very cruel game, and unfortunately you and your child are some of the players. It's a game that you don't want to participate in... until the rules are changed to heavily favor you and your child winning in this game... i.e., he needs to help himself.
It's very hard to sit there and watch the person you thought you knew, and loved, turn into your worse nightmare.
We are here for you, as we many of us know the pain that you are experiencing.
I saw your pictures... your "H" is giving up a very beautiful family.
Last, but certainly not least... if you believe in the Lord... I would pray and lean very heavily upon him, as he knows your pain, and he is with you at all times.
Give it to the Lord and allow his will to be done... for Satan has truly entered into your family's life.
relady...
It seems that we cross posted again.
As sad as it is... there is not much you can do until you hear from the "far away land".
By you allowing the Lord to fill your spirit, and take control... I call it putting it into God's bag, and not taking it out for you to control... allowing God's will instead of yours... your "H" will see the person that the Lord intended for you to be.
You are most definitely on the right track.
EC...
What a great analogy... Pigs... boy you got that right. I also like the "treasure hunter" scenario as well... so true .. so true.
As far as any of my plans... unfortunately all the plans I had made for 2002 went up in smoke... I haven't made any real plans for 2003, as I don't want to set myself up for anymore disappointments. I've had enough already, don't need anymore for the moment... if you know what I mean.
EC... that is so cool that the famous actress you met and had your picture taken with is so "down to earth", and is actually a real person and not a stuck-up phoney. I guess there is some real people in Hollywood.
Hope everyone has a good weekend.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ November 15, 2002, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/15/02 08:00 PM
EC - Your change of outlook really shows in the last couple of posts. Very encouraging to read! I didn't know you were a musician...I was about at the point I'll never talk to another musician again because of hubby and his "music /soul connection" with OW but will make the exception for you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL

~~~~~~~
BBMBF/Mary As Wallace said, welcome to Petvet's thread. I'm glad I got on it when there were only 28 pages to read, LOL. I echo Wallace in suggesting some additional support for you. I've been to Al-Anon and would totally recommend it. The stories of everyone in those groups are so similar, that even if circumstances vary, the way of dealing with them are the same. It would provide a lot of help for you. My husband has been in music full-time for 25 years and you'd recognize some of the people he's worked with and published for..believe me, these guys can get VERY self-centered. Their careers/hobbies are MADE for ego-stroking. Of course, I always said "not my husband" but we all know how that goes....

I would also recommend Plan B. Your husband is immature, both by behavior and age. He also seems (at the least) verbally abusive. Do Plan B and work on yourself, not for HIS benefit, but for yours! Your parents seem like they are helping you too, both emotionally and with housing and other things. Is that right? I hope so!

It's nice to have a picture to see a face with a post! You're very pretty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You are the same age as my kids, and you have a whole life ahead of you. I know you can't see that now with all that is going on, but you do. Just have faith <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

~~~~~
Looks like my husband is playing all weekend and a lot next week, so the talk my daughter had hoped for with him isn't happening anytime soon. Will keep ya posted.

Hope everyone has a great weekend. We'll look for someone's dating report on Monday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: BetrayedByMyBestFriend Re: Tough Love - 11/16/02 02:13 AM
UPDATE NEED INSIGHT HERE!!

I got a letter in the mail from Ken(ws),a very long letter.

The main point in it was this..

Mary I was Very Unhappy for the past 3 in a half years.I told my dad a year before I started dating that I wanted a divorce I hated the way you treated me.My dreams ment nothing to you,I thought going into our marriage that you KNEW what I was about..who I was.BUT found out you didn't,I promised my dad I would try for one more year.
I couldn't stand living with you anymore.
You were too controling,I hated it when you were on my back when I wanted to record over Mikes house.You were depressed,unhappy,and I knew I deserved better.The only reason I was angry,and delt with anger problems was because you pushed my buttons and I hated being married to you that much!
We have been emotionally divorced for along time,you never wanted to go out to the bars with me and watch my friends bands play.You would never leave our son to spend time with me.
I feel that I have tried everything to save our marriage.I was saving my sanity by leaving it!
Every month that passes makes me hate you more,because of what your doing to me.
I could have really got you in court but..since I'm not that way I let things slide.
Unlike you,you had to make sure our son was kept from me and that I should take over the rental,along with the utilities.
I find this SICK
I can never consider going back into a relationship with you when you play these cards.
There is no reason I shouldn't have our son everyother weekend,and you should be paying these bills along with me.
Everyday you wake up and leave things this way,is another reason why I will never be with you again.

Ohh my.....
Posted By: BetrayedByMyBestFriend Re: Tough Love - 11/16/02 03:09 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I had to play at this christian event and met a well known TV Actress there, she saw my group perform. I can't say who it is for the sake of privacy, but I had a chance to talk to her and she told me she recently left a popular show because they wanted her do a sexual bedroom scene, she said No, she feels her role in the industry is to build up marriages and families not tear them down, I was excited for her, she's very nice and on fire for the Lord!! Its nice to see somebody cares and stands for integrity in hollywood. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EC .....That is wonderful news!!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I rather her messed up back then than now.. Your husband seems self-centered right now being in the music business he's driven with "I got to make it big, no matter what", even if it means eliminating my wife and kid. The money is all mine because I'm going to make it big one day, forget the bills and responsibilities...and then you're broken and ripped...no one needs to be abused </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can be Thankful that I found out right away,and it wasn't 20 years of marriage.My heart just breaks to think of that pain!!
My ws has told me in the past that if he didn't give it his all in the music field*it would drive him insane the what if's.Going into the marriage I thought it was more of a hobbie,I did not think it would consume him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He has the cart before horse, he'll be lonely and miserable guy in the process...He'll regret losing you, you're not an ugly person, but you still need to work on you and discover what you could be better at. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One can ALWAYS improve thyself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ,mainly I have been in counsling(started this week),have gone back to church..i'll be going to a divorce workshop at our church as well.
I just wish with all my heart that the man I once knew would poooof *like magic come back to life,he is 100% differant...and I noticed since where not together I feel more like myself..not walking on egg shells worried sick that he's going to blow up.

You say you're a christian and when he came to the Lord you tried to help him grow. I think that's where we mess up sometimes, we see somebodys potential, we see them not as they are but what they could be, we get behind them nurture them only to see them go back to the pigpen they came from, Its almost like putting suit and necktie on a pig and say here now you'll eat steaks and take a bath for now on, all the while the pig is meditating on how good it felt in the mud , then leaves and says this is for the birds, they jump ship....

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> That is sooo true,very good way of putting it...

Wallace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> my eyes are slowly defuzzing,I have been reading and reading and searching the internet..I haven't read so many books so fast..trying to grab at any helpful info I can out there.
you've read through half of this thread? That is a lot of reading... I'll bet your eyes are still trying to get back to normal.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm assuming that you are working a Plan B., am I correct in that assumption? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I haven't sent any letter but have been avoiding him and told him I didn't want to talk to him right now.
and cease all contact with your "H" until you start seeing some complete and positive changes coming out of your "H".

I haven't seen anything so far,but him blaming me,He sent me a letter I posted it here...I know I wasn't perfect It hard to be a good wife when you feel 3rd best,music,friends were top on his list...he would complain if I asked him to pick up a gallon of milk on the way home from work.The only reason I would ask is because he drove our only car...just to give you examples
Then the abuse and for 2 years he wouldn't hardle touch me..he hated me! WHy?! I'm still REALLY trying to figure that one out I was never skinny enough pretty enough..wasn't putting him through college wasn't working two jobs plus watching our son full time.It was inpossible to make him happy,unless I was missing something!!!
your "H" is giving up a very beautiful Family/B]

God gave him another chance after we lost our other pregnancies,he was so excited up until our son was born...WHAT'S sad is in all of the pictures he LOOKS MISSERABLE,holding our son with us as a family no smile just plain unhappy...even on joyful days our sons birth, christmas.

Avondale
[B]My husband has been in music full-time for 25 years and you'd recognize some of the people he's worked with and published for..believe me, these guys can get VERY self-centered. Their careers/hobbies are MADE for ego-stroking. Of course, I always said "not my husband" but we all know how that goes....


I think it is very common*** Maybe I was just very bad at knowing how to build him up in that way.He was always compairing me to his buddies wives and girlfriends well she works and lets her husband stay home with the kids to work on his music.SHE understands her husband.
I'm just not that way"I'm a mommy at heart love being a mom,I am by no means a working women."
Stroking his ego was a hard one for me thats forsure..but i'm sure the new OW'en know how to.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do Plan B and work on yourself, not for HIS benefit, but for yours! Your parents seem like they are helping you too, both emotionally and with housing and other things. Is that right? I hope so! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes,I should be here for about a year until I'm done with college..and am back on my feet again.

Thank you all for your kind words I hope i didn't miss anyone,ohh and your wise advice too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/16/02 06:31 AM
Hi All,

Welcome BBMBF <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You are truly in the right place, I have found this to be he best thread on this board <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

When I started reading, there were already 30+ pages, so I understand your rolling eyeballs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> LOL

As I've said before, when the WS finally leaves you discover that you have spend your married life catering to them while loosing yourself! It is a long journey back to yourself, but you are definitely on the right road!

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/16/02 01:35 PM
Hi all!

Yes, it has been a year. It is something that I am not proud of; however, I have met alot of wonderful people who are going through or have gone through the same marital issues as I have. Together we have helped eachother through one of worst things that can happen to an individual. What is good about this thread is most of us are going through many of the same issues at about the same time. I don't what I would have done if you guys and gals were not here; I hope you feel the same. I don't think of this thread as mine anymore. I gave up ownership along time ago because it is the people (everyone) who makes this thread work. No one person can do it alone. Through all our pain and suffering, we have made better human beings of ourselves.

BBMBF: Welcome to the thread, I will give my two cents later after I read about your situation.

EC: It is amazing how a change in perspective can affect one's outlook. You are doing good. You are headed in the right direction. You seem to be going back to things that you gave up during the marriage. As you well know, one of the things that WS do is try to damage our self asteem. Now, you feel empowered.

Wallace: You seem to have everything under control. I may be going through something similar as you. There is someone who likes me.

Relady: If you are happy with the pace of things, then I guess one has to take a wait and see attitude. It nothing wrong with being in park for a while. Do what is best for you.

Avondale: let us know how meeting with H and D goes.

Dave: I hope things are going well.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/18/02 01:04 PM
Hi All

It POURED rain here all weekend and I didn't go out...so I now have my house in the cleanest shape it's been in a long time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace , on my calendar I have your name by Friday's date (marked for prayer). What is that for? I can't remember but assume it's a court-related thing.

Petvet , what's your court schedule these days? A while back I think you were talking about annulment. Is that going to work out? Have you seen improvement in your son since he switched classes?

Dave, EC, Relady, RMA, BBMBF , hope your weekends went well.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/19/02 06:10 AM
Hi All,
avondale...
As promised... it's time for my past weekend update <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
I was kidnapped for a good chunk of my weekend.
We went out for dinner twice... Friday and Saturday night, and on Sunday we attended Church services, and then had brunch. Plus... I did a back end steam boiler rebuild on Saturday. So it was pretty much none stop.
It doesn't appear that I'm slowing this relationship down too much does it?
To try to aswer your question about the Friday date... I'm not aware of anything coming up this Friday... I'm all done with Court until I start filing garnishment motions to the Court, and I probably won't do that until the beginning of 2003. So I'm not sure why you have it marked down for this Friday... but I can use all the prayers I can get... all day everyday.
Betrayed...
I'll give you my take on your "H's" letter.
It's a justification letter for all the garbage that he has been putting you through. It's his way of making you look like the bad guy, and lessening his guilt for the things he has done... it's so very typical... typical 'fog speak".
Glad to hear that you joined a Church as well as a support group. It will eventually help put your situation into perspective for you.
Petvet...
Oh, oh, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> you "are" following in my footseps aren't you? (LOL)
If you keep that up... your going to need to post weekend updates as well... that's if you decide to pursue the relationship.
What do you plan on doing? Are you going to act on it if you get "D"... or are you going to let it fall by the wayside?
How is everything else going with your son and such?
relady, RMA, EC, and Dave...
I hope you all had a good weekend.
We are running short handed at work today... everyone decided to take an extended weekend... and this "old dog" of a computer I am working on is trying to die out on me.
Hope everyone has a great day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ November 18, 2002, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/19/02 01:34 AM
"I haven't seen anything so far,but him blaming me,He sent me a letter I posted it here...I know I wasn't perfect It hard to be a good wife when you feel 3rd best,music,friends were top on his list...he would complain if I asked him to pick up a gallon of milk on the way home from work.The only reason I would ask is because he drove our only car...just to give you examples
Then the abuse and for 2 years he wouldn't hardle touch me..he hated me! WHy?! I'm still REALLY trying to figure that one out I was never skinny enough pretty enough..wasn't putting him through college wasn't working two jobs plus watching our son full time.It was inpossible to make him happy,unless I was missing something!!!"

Mary, Ken is not happy with himself, therefore he is not going to be happy with anyone else.You could of done everything perfect and it still wouldn't of mattered. It is not about how you look, your weight, your income, taking care your son, etc, etc. It is ALL about him. Your last statement is 100% on, "it was impossible to make him happy". No one is perfect, we could of all done things better in our marriage and in our life but that is part of life, living and learning... Accepting that you are not to blame for any of this is hard but you will come to that conclusion if you haven't already. Nothing justifies having an A and certainly nothing justifies abuse. I am glad you checked out this thread.

EC, sounds like you are doing better.. stay stong..

Wallace, glad things are going well for you..

Petvet, I echo your statments about this thread, don't know what I would of done without it.

RMA, Avondale, Relady, hope you are all doing well.

Dave
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/19/02 04:58 AM
Hi Everyone,

Not much happening on the home front...

Hey Petvet, an admirer, Hummmmm??...Sounds like you are about to walk in new territory....

Wallace - Many dates, hummmmmm? Get the facts before you fall in love, she may be the right one and may be perfect for you, but we can't have a soldier down..remember what you see is what you get, don't expect to change anyone...

Davepr - What an episode, hope you're doing better, I'm slowly coming to reality, I just need to let go more and more...

Relady, avondale, RMA hope all is well with you guys
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/19/02 06:10 AM
Hi all!

BTBF: Please understand that in the eyes of the WS they cannot do any wrong. Once they feel that they have found greener pastures, the BS becomes an old model T or a half dead mule. Just thinking about my own situation that sticks out in my mine was when I told w that I was doing the best I could and she told me that my best was not good enough. The WS will do whatever they can to sabotage the relationship. WS are very cocky until they hit the WALL.

Wallace: Please keep your head screwed on straight and think with your mind not with your hormones. Your friend will appreciate your carefulness.

Avondale: Rain and cold are not my favorite outdoor environment either.

Me: There is no court date planned. Son is doing ok with new teacher. I am having to crack down on him pretty heavy because he thinks that he is KING of EVERYTHING. Yes, i have been talking to a friend. I am not going to physically take her out because I am still married. I even feel a little strange talking to friend over the phone. I have been up front with my situation. I think about reconciliation with w everyday, but I cannot imagine trusting her again. She has not come forth with a honest effort to reconcile. My attorney and i want to get D finalize out of court by 2003. I need to move on.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/19/02 04:18 PM
Hi All,
Petvet...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Through all our pain and suffering, we have made better human beings of ourselves. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with that statement whole heartedly. I echo Dave's statement... I don't know what I would of done without this thread either... as relady stated " I found this to be the best thread on the board"... I agree.
Glad to hear that your son is doing better with his new teacher. Your son being the "King" sounds a little familiar.
My "YD" think she is the "Queen of everything" as well... sometimes it gets a little out of hand, but then she comes back down to earth.
Just want to clarify my situation with my "lady friend".
I am in fact (even though it doesn't appear that I am) trying to slow down the relationship to a point where it is not taken so seriously. I know I am not succeeding very well at this particular point in time... but I am working on it.
I have a good handle on it from my end... but I can't control what she is feeling for me. So it's steady as she goes, very slow and mythodical from my end.
When I was at Church this past Sunday... the sermon consisted about what God had planned for our "marriage" as well as being "single" and "divorced". They even brought up the "ENs" questionaire that is used here on "MBers".
In a nut shell, when we are single or divorced, it is in fact God's will... it is a time that he allows us to rest in his word and become closer to Him. We are to use this time to become closer to God, andto follow in the Lord's word. The were speaking from Corinthians:, when Paul was giving his opinion on marriage. It was an excellent service.
I Hope everyone has a good day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/20/02 06:56 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a wonderful weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It's really wonderful to see the progress everyone is making, it really blesses my heart to know there is hope when we stay the course.

The end is better than the beginning.

Pretty soon, we'll have to edit the title and call it 'New Loves for Tough Loves' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> or something similar. LOL

Petvet,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The WS will do whatever they can to sabotage the relationship. WS are very cocky until they hit the WALL.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is so true. They will never succeed with the OP because of the lies and deceit. They just never learn. Isn't it funny how they all say and do the same thing? Whether it is male or female.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think about reconciliation with w everyday, but I cannot imagine trusting her again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another thing I'm getting out of this is, if there is to be a reconciliation, you have to forgive WS and trust only the Lord and He will do the rest. He and He alone can turn the hearts of men.

We have to know when they are God cases and when they are Man's case, an important difference.

Wallace,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am in fact (even though it doesn't appear that I am) trying to slow down the relationship to a point where it is not taken so seriously. I know I am not succeeding very well at this particular point in time... but I am working on it.
I have a good handle on it from my end... but I can't control what she is feeling for me. So it's steady as she goes, very slow and mythodical from my end.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it doesn't appear to us that you're not slowing down, how do you think it appears to your lady friend? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Scenario I am female, recently divorced, or soon to be divorced, I find this wonderful gentleman who treats me better than my X, I don't have to worry about where he is on weekends, because he's with me! Hey, I know I'll work on his fragile emotions before anyone else can get to him. Let him know I love him, just in case he's thinking about dating other people!!

IMHO, try slowing down by not seeing her for one weekend, and see the reaction. I'm sure you'll be surprised <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Strictly my female perception.

Avondale, EC, Davepr, and the missing RMA, hope all is well

God Bless You,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/19/02 07:46 PM
Hey y'all

Petvet brought up "TRUST". Tell me something (since you are farther along in this stuff than I am)...at what point do you learn to trust another person again? Even someone new, who's not your WS ? Does the mistrust from one relationship carry over into new ones? Does it just take time, or are you able to really know in your head & heart that this is someone new who - hopefully- won't give reasons to distrust again?

Wallace- I am changing today from "little sister mode" to "also a female mode". I was going to cut and paste the same quote that relady did but it's taken me several hours off and on to get this written cuz of work...Relady and I are of the same mind. Is this woman asking YOU out for these dates, and you're saying "yes"? If so, maybe you should consider a "no" once in a while. Or are you asking HER out several times a week? If you're initiating them, it sure appears to me from 2000 miles away that you are pursuing her in some manner. And I bet this lady friend thinks the same thing. We women are alike this way.

Relady ...I like your proposed title "New Loves for Tough Loves" LOL So maybe there is hope for us too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ November 19, 2002, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/19/02 11:41 PM
Hi All,
It got a little slow here at work... so I decided to come back and see what was going on here.
I couldn't let this sit overnight after I read your posts... so I decided to log back in and post something. I'll have to admit, as I'm typing this... I have laughed and have been grinning the whole time reading the posts.
You are all great, you bring up some very valid points and direction.
I'm still sitting here with a big "old smile" on my face.
relady...
"New Loves for Tough Loves", I'm still laughing over that... that is so good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I have just recently been able to truly laugh again... It is a good feeling.
avondale...
I want to include you in on this too, as you and relady are both are on the same page it appears.
O.k., here it goes in an abbreviated form, I hope.
How do I say this... when this first got started... I would meet with her and several people after Church for coffee, and brunch.
Through our many conversations we both decided after our "D" that we would like to get toether for a dinner (singular).
Both of our "Ds" came and we decided that we would like to go out and have dinner together... by ourselves (and I was the initiator of the idea).
Well the evening went so well, that I, (yes it was me) asked her if she would like to meet again for another dinner date, and she said she would love to. So we went out on another dinner date... that was the first week if my memory serves me correctly.
Well, I must of made such an impression for all the months that I have been talking with her and the other people in our Church group, she indicated to me that she wanted me to call her after our dinner dates.
As you all know, we have been seeing each other on quite a regular basis since then, (and yes, it was probably me that initiated the next dinner dates).
Well she told me that she was falling in love with me after several weeks of seeing each other more or less off and on.
It has now gotten to the point, that she wants to be with me all the time... but she realizes that I need my time to heal.
She doesn't come right out and say that she wants to be with me all the time... but it's a feeling that I am getting, and I feel that if I don't accomodate her needs (we took the ENs questionaire and one of her top 5 needs are communication), that I might end up hurting her, which I don't want to do.
She is very much in love with me, and I had indicated to her and to everyone that I was more afraid of hurting her than of her hurting me. She indicated she is afraid of that as well.
I don't know, maybe I'm in a rebound relationship. I don't feel like I am, but maybe I am. I don't want it to be a rebound relationship, of course I'm not ready for any full blown relationship either... and I have indicated this to her.
I'm "damaged goods"... and she accepts that, at least for the time being.
So am I leading her on? I don't think I am, at least I'm not conscious of it. I do really enjoy being with her. I'm not looking for marriage, but I'm not out there playing the boards to see how many woman I can pick-up either. That's not what I'm looking for, never have and never probably will.
I'm trying to stay focused on the Lord, and at the same time... it is nice to be able to communicate with someone of the opposite sex.
I have been out of the loop for quite some time, so I'm finding that it is a very enjoyable experience for me... because it's been awhile since I had some good honest (my #1 need) communication.
What would happen if I told her that I was not going to see her for let's say a week? She would probably start thinking that I wasn't interested in her anymore... and she would probably feel hurt.
So I am probably guilty for getting things started (2000 miles away, avondale... your good), but I didn't expect for someone to fall head over heels for me that quickly.
I'm just being me, that's all I have ever been... and someone actually likes, no loves it.
I'm open for suggestions, and any advice you want to give me.
avondale... I would like to give you my thoughts concerning the trust issue as I'm dealing with it now... and I'm going to use the relationship I'm in now as an example.
For me, at this stage, trust has to be earned, it's not given.
I believe that's because of all the wonderfulness I have been through in the last umpteen years.
At first... my walls were way up... way up... and as time went on, I started to let my walls come down ever so slightly, just to see what would happen.
There is still a long way to go, but I have found with my "lady friend", at this stage (and it's still very early) that she not given me the slightest indication as of yet that she can't be trusted.
The walls are still up mind you... and only time will tell of the outcome. If however I get one indication that she is not being totally honest with me... I'm going to be out of her life so fast it will make her head spin.
So that's my experience with it so far. (side note:) I could never trust my exW ever again.
I've rambled on for too long, so I will let you all go... until tomorrow.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: BetrayedByMyBestFriend Re: Tough Love - 11/20/02 12:00 AM
Thank you all for the advice...my gut feeling was right on this one,why do I 2nd guess myself..LOL
Had a good weekend..and the week so far looks promising,getting excited for the Holiday season.
Hugs,
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/20/02 01:14 AM
relady,

I am cracking up at the new title for this post!!! Youza!!! Thankis for making my day, teehee!

Wallace,

It is AOK to be going out, but do be sensible and go slow. I have been dating my guy for quite a while now. It is better to be slow and sure than jump too quick and be sorry for yet another mistake. Have fun and keep things light-hearted, OK?

Petvet,

I am sorta confused on things with you. Did ya'll get the settlement and CS issues resolved or not? Why this dragging on and on for the divorce??? It is hard for me to understand, as mine was final on the 31st day after filing. Sorry, with so many people now, I can hardly keep up! Oh, well I am not a bit surprised someone likes you. Happened to me, too. A person sitting on the sidelines waiting for you to become "available". Doesn't it just AMAZE you thaty one person can find us so attractive and irresistable while the WS just throws us away??????? I will tell you from my own experience, you will be totally shocked at who is interested in you and just holding back until you are divorced. I can't tell you how many of my exH's friends called me!!! It just goes to show that "one man's trash truly IS another man's treasure." At least, that is what my dear old Granny used to say!

BBMBF,

What a letter to receive! All I can say is that you can only do one thing. Examine your heart as honestly as you can to see if he has any true merit to be so hateful and angry towards you. If you see anything lacking on your part, do your best to address those issues. As for the rest, I think your H is really not wanting the responsibility of being married and has come up with alot of excuses as to why it's all your fault and why he needs to get out. You can only be true to yourself and be the best person that you can be, and nothing more. Take care and know that we are here for you.

Wallace, avondale, EC and dave....Hi, ya'll!!!!

Oh, avondale....I think if you and your H were to reconcile, the trust would have to be built back. I think that is why Dr Harley has the rules for accounting for time, giving away your e-mail passwords, etc. That honesty upfront and on-going would be essential to building the trust necessary to sustain a healthy and ahppy relationship. Yu have such a good attitude and such a loving heart. I know if reconciliation were to happen for you, you do have it in you to truly forgive your WS.

Sorry, but I have to close to finish cooking dinner. It is getting late! Take care, all...

RMA
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/21/02 06:02 AM
Hi All,

Avondale

Of course there is hope for us, this thread is contagious, we can't help but to follow in others footsteps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace,

Now for you my friend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It has now gotten to the point, that she wants to be with me all the time... but she realizes that I need my time to heal.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That seems to be a redundant statement. When will you have time to heal, during the week? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> LOL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't know, maybe I'm in a rebound relationship. I don't feel like I am, but maybe I am. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You wouldn't know you're in a rebound situation until you have completely healed and realize that you have outgrown the person you're with. The ENS questionnaire, you answered as to your needs today. They may not be the same 1 year from now! Make Sense?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm "damaged goods"... and she accepts that, at least for the time being.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've got to see yourself as God sees you. not as a beat up hubcab, but a nice shiny chrome wheel. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ask the Lord if she's the one and until He answers go slow and have fun, you are both in a needy position at this time.

OK ALL

How about this one, "As The Love Turns on Tough Love" ? Can't you just hear the theme music? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/20/02 10:41 PM
Hi All,
RMA...
It's good to hear from you, and I hope everything is going well in your life.
I'm trying to take this relationship very, very, slow, very slow.
So long as it is a positive experience for me, then I will more than likely keep seeing my "lady friend".
I'm not looking for any long term commitment in this relationship. If by chance it happens... then I'll let the Lord be my guide.
relady...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">: by relady:

When will you have time to heal, during the week?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, that was the game plan <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL... but now she wants me to meet with her at least once in the middle of the week. She indicated to me that she needs to see me during the week as well... because she misses me.
I agree with you on the "ENs" aspect... my emotional needs may go in a whole other direction... that possibilty does exist. That's why I am not trying to make any knee-jerk moves concerning any aspect of my life.
(This old computer that I'm on at work won't let me make paragraphs or cut and paste "quotes" so bear with me, if you could).
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">: by relady:
You've got to see yourself as God sees you. Not as a beat up hubcap, but as a nice shiny chrome wheel.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do believe that the Lord loves me for who I am unconditionally. But it's hard to shake off the feeling you get (beat up old hub cap) when you have been treated the way I have been treated by my exW and the way we have all been treated for that matter.
It's a feeling you just don't shake that easy, at least not for me anyway. I'm moving forward and healing in this area, and that is where my growth in the Lord needs to be focused as well. I have to live and breath the fact that the Lord loves me always. I try not to lose sight of that... easier said than done.
I am asking the Lord to lead me, not only in this, but in everything I do. I'm not going to ever lose sight of that.
You know something? I think I can hear some music playing in the distance. It's faint... but if you really listen... you can hear... yes, yes, yes it is...I believe it's the music from...
As the Love Turns on Tough Love". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL... that is good. I've been smiling all the way through this post.
Avondale...
You bet there is hope... and yes this thread is contagious. If you follow in some of our footsteps the music will really be playing.
Hopefully though, you, and everyone else that wants to reconcile their M will be able to do just that.
Petvet...
Just wanted to let you know that you are doing the wise thing and waiting to see what happens in your marriage. I know when I got "D" and started to date... it felt so strange, it still feels strange, but you need to crawl I guess, before you can walk.
I'm still groping around in the dark concerning all of this.
Betrayed...
I have found through all of this... that if you go with your gut feel... your usually right. I wouldn't fall for his song and dance act until you see some postive changes from him first... I wouldn't change a thing that your doing.
Dave and EC...
Let us know how your doing when you get a chance.
I hope I didn't miss anyone... if I did, I apologize.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/21/02 12:42 AM
Wallace,

Forget the theme song and hear this, BELLS RINGING <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Your lady friend is very needy and when and if you become whole before her, you are going to break her heart all over again.

After what we've been through, it's easy to be attracted to the first person who values us but remember, the Lord says, "In a multitude of counsel, there is safety". Please be very careful. You have very wise females on this thread and we care about you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/21/02 01:20 AM
Hello Gang!

Lot's of things happening here.I see the thought of a name change floating around, I guess this could turn into lovers lane, hummm?....

Petvet and Wallace have new female friends. Since it's been a very long road for these guys what can you expect. In about 2-3 months I will then been on my own for 2 years, unbelievable, where did the time go? I'm not ready to give up my freedom yet as single but I have my moments.

I emailed my TV friend and she emailed me back said she couldn't sleep and was up since 3:00a tossing and turning, dreaming in excitement of what the Lord was doing in her life. I gave her an encouraging message. She said she needed hear that very message I sent and she thanked me and said the above...It's nice to see everybody is just human and you can have something good to say to somebody regardless who they are or who you are, getting past the idolatry of who they are and focus on what they need, what a diff you can make.

Hey Wallace looks like the women here are concerned for you, thats great. Somebody said 'Tell the guy I love him to keep him around' not referring to you but, but boy what a good line and sinker for a emotional needy guy like me, I would have got sucked right in, if I didn't know the person.

I'm still stuck in the horse stall, I can't tell if a woman is trying to flirt or be friendly, I don't have a clue, I might have missed opportunities.. If she was interested I would probably say ...." Uh,Uh Hellwo?, my name is fudderfickle <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ......

She'd probably say with her head turned and ear stretched and say what did you say?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> "Uh, Uh, Hellwo, my name is fudderfickle!!

She'd probably say, scram!! you @$#@^% <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> especially after she saw the dried booger hanging out of my nose.....she probably say 'gross me out the door man <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just Joking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I would straighten up and say in an Elvis voice' Just call me' cool orange shady <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Thank you , Thank you very much...

I'm happy for everyone here, it's good to see reconciliation, restoration, new relationships, unresolvable issues disappearing and strength given to those in need.

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/21/02 03:34 AM
Wallace
After I say my piece here, I'll try to shut up about this subject <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Let me say first that I didn't really learn anything "new" with what you wrote yesterday; your story was kind of like I had thought. So my concern will stay at the same level. I'll respond chronologically instead of using quotes, cuz they would take up lots of room.

1) Of course you "Made such an impression". You are a great guy! Any lady would be quite foolish to think otherwise.

2) You are NOT damaged goods and you should not look at yourself as such. By just saying it, you are not having a "positive confession".

3) It was obvious that she was "falling in love with you" and I think that is due at least in part to how great you are and the fact that you are pursuing her with lots of dates in a relatively short period of time. How could she help but feel that way? Any woman would feel the same.

4) I don't think YOU are "on the rebound" , but I question if she is. Only she would really know.

5) I don't think you are consciously "leading her on" . However, the number of dates during said time frame would lead ANY woman to think you want more, sooner, and seriously.

6) I think if you told her that because your exclusive relationship happened so quickly, you wanted to slow things down, the time to do it would be now, at the beginning of your relationship. Do you think it would be any easier farther down the road? You wrote "she would probably start thinking I wasn't interested in her anymore and feel hurt". If she can't see the wisdom in having a more steady pace for both your sakes, then maybe she has more healing to do.

And just food for thought...if you feel the need to be with her because you "want to accommodate her needs " (re: EN questionnaire) so she won't be hurt, is she using YOU, albeit unconsciously? And now you're spending even more time with her because she misses you ? That seems a little more than meeting ENs...it seems co-dependant. I have so much respect for you, Petvet, and EC, so I'm not saying this lightly, it's just my opinion.

Don't get me wrong...I think it is GREAT, absolutely GREAT that you are able, willing, and emotionally OK to date someone. Something just seems amiss, that's all.

EC - "fudderfickle"??? Where did you pick that one up from? LOL Seriously though, the lightness of your posts must be a reflection of positive changes within you, I can really tell a difference! So the next thing we know, you'll be dating your famous friend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh...and I'll be out of town Thurs-Saturday so I'll catch up with responses on Saturday night (since I am NOT dating, LOL!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/21/02 04:38 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: Poooor Poooor Wallace, you can't when for losing. I was grinning while the ladies were giving you a hard time. The ladies mean well and for the most part they are right. Listen Wallace! Your lady friend is on FIREEEEEEEE!!!!!!I kid you not. I don't know what you are doing, but whatever you are doing is depsoiting HUGE love units into her love bank. You may want to fortify your doors and windows because she is coming for you baby. No joke Wallace, slow down man, you are ablaze. Talking about the shuttle, at this pace, you and your lady friend are going to end up in outer space.Listening to your story, you are getting me excited. You are going to get everyone "addicted to love" (no pune intended-all I can remember is the old guy singing in the nice Brooks Brothers suit with all the nice looking ladies in bakinis).

Avondale: "Trust" as far my situation is concern is a gut feeling thing. My gut tells me whether something is on the up and up. My gut has been right so far and I am going to trust my gut until further notice. Did you D let your H have it?

Relady: I wish our stories were soap operas; unfortunately, we are living a nightmare. You are very funny. A good sense of humor always helps during tough times.

RMA: Happy everything is going well for you. Clarification: To make a long story short, my attorney is trying to hammer out a settlement if my w will admit to the adultery on my counter dD filing against her. Her admitance will hopefully help me to get my annulment. I would like a settlement by the end of the year.

Me: Everyone, please understand that i am not dating anyone. I have not gone out with anyone. The acquaintance is someone i just talk on the phone for good conversation. She likes the conversations and so do I. I'm still searching my heart and gut as to whether w will show repentence and make a real effort to reconcile. Right now, she has not done anything that convinces me that she is well meaning to work things out.

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/21/02 05:43 PM
Hi All,

I hope your day is starting out to be great.

Wallace,

Ditto what Avondale said about "trying to shut-up on the subject" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You know we're here if you need us.

EC

You are way too funny <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> When you start dating, we'll point you in the right direction so you won't use words like "fudderfickle", <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> that would scare me too. LOL

Petvet,

You're right, I too wish this nightmare was a 'soap opera' however since it isn't, we couldn't be in a better place. This is a very positive thread and for that you should be thankful, for out of your weakness grew strength!

Avondale,

Has your D talked to your H yet?

RMA

You have trained us well, Do we make you proud with our female wisdom in your absence. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Davepr

How is everything with you and your W? Have you found employment yet?

God Bless You,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/21/02 07:22 PM
Hi Everyone,
I would of gotten back to everyone sooner... but I'm still taking the bandages off of me from the beating I took from the last set of posts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I asked for advice and direction and by-golly I got it... Got it good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Well I thank you all for all of your words of wisdom... and I have to agree with everything that all of you have posted... and it is good to know that you are all here to keep me out of trouble when it looks like I may be heading that way.
So, I have a question... how do I slow this thing down without hurting her feelings? It's like Petvet said, she is on "fire".
I still want to see her, but we need to take this "blazing fire effect", and turn the heat way down on it.
I'm under control, but she wants more from this relationship than I'm ready to give.
How do I go about slowing this thing down without hurting her feelings. I don't want to hurt her feelings, and I do want to keep seeing her. I just don't want that serious of a relationship right now.
Do I need to put my football helmet and pads on for this one? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
OK...I put them on... let me have it.
Petvet... Just a little sidenote on the talking with this new woman in your life. That's how mine started out as well... so you need to be carful as well... or your going to end up in the soup too... LOL.
Thanks for being here, each and everyone of you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/21/02 07:45 PM
Hello ALL,

Looks like the Ladies are on a roll here.....

Ok, Petvet has cleared his name he's not dating or in any serious relationship, just a generic phone friend, he's wanting reconcilation if possible, if she turned.....

Wallace - All eyes have been on you but everyone thinks you're great!

Hi Relady, Avondale - The name fudderfickle came from the child side of me.....Its a combination of - Fun, Studdering and Tickled - Fudderfickle <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know, this thread is pretty good, each story is true, maybe oneday in the future they'll have you guys meet on Oprah or somewhere, definitly not Jerry Springer..let the WS's meet there with 2 OP's..

*******

I don't think I would want to date the Actress eventhough she's nice, she looks like she's at least 29-30, I'm 40.....wouldn't work, so she'll just be a friend if even that....

I currently haven't dated anyone because, my little red car is not worth putting a nice woman in...It's paid for but its my get out of debt time car...When I get a nice car a [Corvette] then I'll take someone out, for now I like being in the position that no woman gets in my red putt,putt, to have her meet me somewhere for dinner doesn't feel right either so I'll just wait...

Take Care........
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/21/02 09:11 PM
OK
I'm walking out the door to go out of town for 2 days but I had to reply... Wallace , you know we care about you, or we would have just not responded at all to your posts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If you agree that y'all need to slow down, I think you just need to say that to her, up front. Don't allow room for misunderstanding. If communication is high on both of your EN list, then use it to communicate that things are going way too fast. You alone know what kinds of things y'all have talked about (have there been any "our future" talks?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I STRONGLY feel you need to say something SOON or it will become even more awkward. And then, sad to say, limit the amount of times you get together in a week. If this was one of your kids, would you do some sort variety of grounding? LOL

Ya'll have a great weekend, watch out for our buddy Wallace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Oh, and EC and Petvet , don't worry, we only razz when it is necessary!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/21/02 10:00 PM
Wallace,

You are such a brave soul. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We tried to give you a break, didn't we avondale? But, nnnoooooooo, you won't let us. You just had to ask one more question! Sooooo, strap yourself in, this may get a little rocky. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

First and foremost is the fact that you can't get away without hurting her feelings at this point, she is apparently too far gone. The only thing you can do is choose your words very carefully. And I'm not sure if you can have it both ways. If you slow it down, she may not want to continue seeing you. She already has it in her mind that she is the one!

You started out 'full steam ahead' now you want to risk a collision by slowing down?

And if you don't slow it down, you'll end up married again before God gets the news and that may become a full blown wreck! LOL

So take a break from her this weekend and see how things go, if she hunts you down, calls you every 5 minutes, that's a real problem then fall back to Plan B. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

On a more serious note, pray before you speak and your words will be kinder and less stinging.

Petvet, EC

We really are very gentle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/22/02 11:37 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: I apologize for my last post. I was trying to make a serious point in a joking manner. I like the ladies don't want you to get hurt again. I know how you feel as far as having a nice lady who wants your attention. I am also enlighten by the attention. My issue is that I am scared of making the same mistakes over again. I still think that I may have made a bad choice. After being abuse for so long, we automatically want love. The problem is sometimes when we let our hearts do the thinking for us we make errors in judgements. I will say no more about your relationship. Once again, I apologize.

Later.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/22/02 01:27 PM
Something else I would like to add to my previous post.

Through the years, I have always heard the saying that what one experiences comprises that individualor something like that.

My question is since all of us on this thread are in the process of moving into new relationships or reconciling, how do we not allow our past experiences to affect our current situations. Case in point, as you well know I am in a grey area because my w may want to reconcile but I am comparing her today to what was on the past or to put in other words, the past w behavior is used a barometer to guide the current version of w. (Am I making myself clear or do I sound confused?) Can we go through new relationships or reconcile with former WS without psycho analyzing the situation? Also, those who are divorce, how do you think other people perceive your status? Is it fair to psycho analyze the next relationship? Dr. Laura always says that making sure that you have a keeper is not always pleasant. She says that when you are talking about a lifelong relationship, one has to forgo short term pain for long term gain. If I did not make myself clear, please let me know.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/22/02 05:36 PM
Hi Petvet,

If exw ever wanted to come back their would have to be a major change in her otherwise I'd be wasting my time. At this point I have to look at her like any other woman out there. The difference with her is I've seen more good than bad over 21 years, problem is her bad is horrible, its insane.....Therefore that puts me in a position to think sure a relationship can start off right, she may be the right one, but will I see the same signs exw portrayed before going off the deep end?...You start to think of those things from the start but its not necessarily healthy living in, what if?

I think trust is the key ingredient to all of it.....I look at the scenerio of....What if you had a woman that was crazy and excited about her husband, she greeted you in excitement when you arrived home or whoever got home first, wanted to read marriage material or other things together, have quality time together no TV, etc...

A woman like that Petvet is a far cry from what we've experienced in our marriages in the later years....There are women out there that want the same exact thing we want.....
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/22/02 09:03 PM
Hi All,

I hope you're all doing well.

Petvet,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">how do we not allow our past experiences to affect our current situations. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is a tough question. I would say the key would be to leave your past in the past and not let it rob you of the future. To do this, I have found the easiest way for me is to replace those thoughts with new ones as soon as they present themselves. If you and your W should reconcile, part of forgiveness is leaving the past where it is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I believe that what a person does is not always who they are. God is the only one who can change the hearts of men.

In my situation, I have totally forgiven my H in my heart and analyzed myself to the point that I have a log in my own eye! Neither one of us were living according to God's plan for marriage.

While waiting to see changes in your W, has she seen changes in you? That is an important question that requires an answer in your heart.

I hope that helps.

Everyone

Have a great and wonderful weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/22/02 10:35 PM
Hi All,
Hey guys and gals... I don't mind talking about what's happening in this new found relationship of mine... it's good to hear what your opinions are on it. I'm not offended in anyway... in fact... I wouldn't have brought it up, if I didn't want to discuss it with all of you.
Just wanted to say that I'm am listening to everything that eveyone has posted. I am going to try to slow things down... so wish me luck.
Petvet...
No need to apologize... I took your post and everybody elses post as they were intended.
I know you all want me to come through this as best I can... and for that I'm greatful.
I... like you, am terrified of making the same mistakes over again... so I know of what you speak.
Do I want to move forward only to find myself back in a very similiar type of a relationship that I had in my "M"...absolutely not.
In regards to making a bad choice, I think you're referring to your "M", and if not correct me if I'm wrong.
We have all been run through the mill... most of us are still being hammered by our spouses in some form or another.
I'll elaborate some more on this later... I'm running out of time.
It is real busy at work today, so I'll have to let you all go for now.
I'll be back on Monday... everybody have a good weekend.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/23/02 10:34 PM
Petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My question is since all of us on this thread are in the process of moving into new relationships or reconciling, how do we not allow our past experiences to affect our current situations </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just for clarification:
First, I'm in a little bit of a different boat than y'all are.... Unless my husband has some sort of change of heart and a major lifestyle change (for the better!) then he will divorce me. This is not what I want, but I am not giving up my "stand of faith" until HE ends it. And I am definitely not in a new relationship. So I'm in limbo, the gray area, neither married nor divorced. But I know I'm where I'm supposed to be & that's great <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can we go through new relationships or reconcile with former WS without psycho analyzing the situation? Also, those who are divorce, how do you think other people perceive your status? Is it fair to psycho analyze the next relationship? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Petvet, this is kind of what I was alluding to with the "trust" question last week. I would hope that I'd be able to trust w/o psychoanalyzing or second-guessing. Of course, if my trust is in God, then He's in control and I'm just supposed to have faith; discernment and common sense have their place too. Those of you who are farther along than I am (i.e., who have had "relationships" since separation) would be better qualified to answer, cuz you've been through it. I'll look forward to everyone's answers.

Oh, and my daughter hasn't talked to her dad yet. She's waiting for him to follow through by calling with a day/time, since he initiated it. She's ready! I'll keep y'all posted.

<small>[ November 23, 2002, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/25/02 05:07 PM
Hi Everyone,
I hope everyone had a good weekend, and I hope everyone has a nice Thanksgiving this week as well.
Short week for me at work this week (Mon.- Wed.) so I'll be in and out at best during the Thanksgiving Holiday.
In conjunction with the question... Can we go through new relationships or reconcile with former WS without psycho analyzing the situation.
I believe that is up to the individual and his/hers circumstances. I believe that I would make a concentrated effort not to psycho analyze the situation... but I'm not sure I would be entirely successful... especially with a WS. I have found myself second guessing certain things in the relationship I'm in now. Not because I want to, but certain triggers come up that give you cause for pause... and you find yourself psycho analyzing certain things that were either said or done.
Hopefully that decreases... accept the good things, and work on the problem areas when they arise.
In time, for the moment... I find myself comparing what was... with what is. I believe it's just normal human nature to do just that... considering what we have all been through it's not hard to. Granted it's not good to do this, but it's almost impossible for me not to. I need a lot of work in this area.
So far I have been successful to date by not allowing my past experiences affect my current relationship. It isn't easy... in fact it would be very easy to allow my past experiences affect my current relationship. I have to make a concerted effort not to let it happen.
I just keep reminding myself to not live in the past, but to live in the present. That this is a new relationship, and deal with whatever presents itself and deal with it to the best of your ability and to not allow yourself to make the same mistakes as you did in your past relationships.
How do I think others perceive my status. People who knew my situation are wondering why I didn't get rid of her a long time ago... so it's all positive. Others... don't really give it a second thought... it's so common place (which is sad) it's just like another day as far as they are concerned.
I think it's more of a matter of how we perceive our situation more than what others think.
avondale...
I'm curious to see how your daughter's conversation goes with her Dad... it should be interesting.
Hope everyone has a great day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/26/02 12:46 PM
Little update here...
I will be talking to H on Wednesday evening. This will be our second "talk" since he left. Unfortunately a little bit late since he's already decided to proceed towards divorce. (Why is he NOW able to give reasons? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> LOL)

But it's my opportunity to point out how the reasons he shared with me 3 wks ago are illogical and irrational. Hopefully food for thought . I definitely do NOT want to use it for reconciliation purposes because at this point he's so far from what he was that I don't want him as he is. So pray for me to be able to articulate my thoughts. One of his reasons was our (new) incompatability since he is almost finished with his PhD and I have only a high school eduation. Thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/26/02 03:07 PM
Hello Everyone, GOOD MORNING!!

A New Day and New Things to discover!!!

Avondale

When you meet with your H just remember he's in the fog and will say some stupid stuff. Just because you finished Highschool is not a bad thing...I don't know personally but from what I've read you are a very beautiful person inside and if the inside is so powerful, rich and beautiful what a treasure you are.

I brought out some points from your last conversation with your H, I posted comments after your quotes:

&#8226; He did admit he probably was having a MLC but didn't think that was necessarily a bad thing because the end result might bring him happiness

[As you see he's confused, he said "it might" bring him happiness? If he's not trying to correct his actions he'll be worse off. My exw was like that, she said " if I'm taking the wrong road then let me take it " if anything bad happened she would recover...she said pitch wisdom.

&#8226; He suggested that instead of trying to cram a life's worth of honest talk into one session tonight, to try to get together in a few weeks to talk a little bit more (Not to talk of reconciliation, but for him to explain why he wants separation, and why he was unhappy, probably to help relieve his guilt.)

[The typical WS talk, yep they need you to validate and approve there decision so they can later use it against you and say "You Agreed". My exw used that when I signed the DV papers at her cunning and manipulation. Honest talk? They constantly lie.

&#8226; He also admitted that he was VERY depressed until the last month or so. I basically just listened, and kept wondering "who IS this man?" (I know y'all know what I mean!)

[It will interesting to see what he has to say different than last time. What helped him from his depression? If it was OW then it's only a Temp fix......Affair's are only a short temporary fix to a longterm internal problem, thats why during the affair they crash and burn..

Anyway don't let him intimidate you with his education, he's human just like everyone else, his pride and sinful actions will bring him low...those degrees without proper character and integrity don't make you happy, it becomes just a peice of paper of accomplishment.

Just rememeber only what he says about you can make you better and push you into your destiny, I learned that the WS's tell what they are unhappy with you about but at the same time if you listen they say what they like and love about you too. Take notes and listen, he'll spill it out. He'll use the incompatible card a lot but don't worry they all do. My exw said same thing after 21 years, it don't take that long to find that out, come on.

You said you don't want to reconcile with who is at this time, but just remember he's going to tell you about you, eat the meat spit out the bones, if you improve on those things its going to put him in a fit of jealousy in time, he'll be afraid another man will have those things. Don't improve for him though improve for you.

Wallace - To look at past issues and compare it to the present is natural because you try not to fall into the same traps. I look at both sides, what WW did to me, but also what I failed to do as a Mate. Its funny but when I get around my married friends and I see things I did, I'll pull the guy off to the side later say and something , meaning, example...IF his wife bought him a shirt and he says " I'm not wearing that crazy looking shirt "...I cringe....I tell him your wife bought you that shirt because she thought her man would be good looking in that and that excites her and turns her on....Then they say Oh I never saw it that way, I say neither did I until I learned that I hurt her feelings by not adjusting to her taste also, don't do what I did, just wear the shirt and be proud, its not like you're wearing it for a lifetime. If her buying you shirt keeps her eyes on you what a bless man you are, keep letting her dress you even if look like donald duck, at least she thinks your the best duck in town, I'm not talking about control, its called give and take, compromise a little from your personal taste, of course I know now.

When a woman says something now about fashion I listen, I listen even to my sisters, women know what looks good. One of my female friends talks about where she insist her boyfriend to shop and she goes along......I listen to these stores she's naming, my sisters and other friends, guess what I do?, yep, trail to those stores when I shop.....My exw don't dress me now but what fashion looks good in the eye of a woman does, makes life a little easier.

Take Care
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/26/02 05:39 PM
Well Sherriff went to deliver CS modification papers to exw, they said she moved, where? they don't know have no trace.....The people who live there now said they've been there since March or May, go figure, I was there in May?....

So as you see this is what I mean, exw has my kids brainwashed to keep silence and talk in code, they do not say anything about they moved, last time I spoke with them nor has called or emailed me they moved....I email OD, I get no response, I mailed them autograph pictures I get no response or thank you....The only thing I've is YD called and said she got the TV and said Thanks...

At this point since the court is backlogged and the court date will be scheduled 6 months before any adjustment about May 2003, I may just drop ALL this and pay CS until Oct 2003 when she's 18 as the current court order reads and be done with it all otherwise a CS modification will cause me to pay until June 2004 a lesser amount but until she's 18 and out of HS. I don't know but it's frustrating, ALL this mess because a WS wants to sleep around.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/27/02 06:50 AM
Hi Everyone,

I hope you all had a wonderful weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

This was my first weekend going to a concert without my H. I didn't look at couples holding hands or hugging and envy them, because now I really know looks are deceiving! Now, that's growth for me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC

That was great advice you gave avondale <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> If Ws's are so comfortable in their decision, why should they need validation. DUH? They all say the same thing, that continues to amaze me. LOL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When a woman says something now about fashion I listen, I listen even to my sisters, women know what looks good. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good for you, I used to choose my H clothes, I wonder how he looks now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Avondale

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But it's my opportunity to point out how the reasons he shared with me 3 wks ago are illogical and irrational. Hopefully food for thought . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll be praying for the right words for you to at least penetrate the 'fog'.

God Bless,
relady

<small>[ November 26, 2002, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/26/02 07:42 PM
Hi Relady,

Thats good about how does he look now? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm sure you did a good job.

One thing I learned is when you hear a woman say " I just can't please you" that is a frustrated woman, she's not being allowed to flow in what she feels is pleasing to you, from her and her input and being is hindered as a woman....

I never got a chance to tell my exw this kinda a stuff I learned later after she seperated, she didn't want to hear it, but I guess the next woman will know and be happy.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/26/02 08:54 PM
Hi everyone.... My work is closed this entire week, mandatory shutdown to save money...
enjoying the time with the family...

I was able to get a new position within my company so that was a big relief..

Just wanted to with everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/26/02 09:44 PM
Hi All,
avondale...
You are absolutely correct... a degree, diploma, certificate of completion, etc., doesn't make you a better person. It's a nice accomplishment, but it doesn't qualify anyone for being a good spouse.
People who think like this have their prioritys all screwed up. A WS will use just about any excuse they can to justify their behavior... and it appears your "H" is doing just that.
Your going to walk into your next meeting with your "H" with the right attitude... I'll say a prayer for you to let the Lord have you communicate with your "H" in a positive manner.
EC...
I'm not sure if this is mandated by every State. But I know in my "D" decree, a part of the court order states that the custodial parent is required to notify the other parent of any change of address. If they don't, then they could be held in violation of the Court order... you are probably already are aware of this... but a little food for thought.
It's amazing how much we have learned since our WSs left.
Knowing what I know now might not have changed anything concerning my situation, but I'll tell you... I have given vey similiar advice as you did to some of my friends concerning how they were acting in certain situations in their marriage. They listened and heeded the advice, and their marriages seem to be doing a lot better. Quite amazing isn't it?
It sounds like your doing much better though in spite of what your exW is doing... and for that I'm thankful.
relady...
You past a significant hurdle at the concert... I'm glad to hear that your growing and healing... praise God!
Keep up the good work, your on the right track.
Petvet, RMA, and Dave...
I hope all of you are having a good week and things are going well for all of you.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/27/02 11:56 AM
Hi all!

First of all, I want to wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving. Even though this can be a tough time of year with all our personal issues, we can take a moment to think about what we really have to say "Thanks".

Avondale: Don't let your H use his arrogant psycho babble to degrade in reference to this degrees. As some one said earler, it's not about the alphabets behind your name that counts at final judgements, it's one's character. I find you to be intelligent and one who puts great effort in your thoughts. You have more patience than I do. I would just tell him to bottom line what he has to say. He either wants to stay married or he does not. I would not let him use you to enrich his ego. What he has done is crummy, PERIOD. His efforts to put a good spin on his actions I find to be dispicable(dictionary not handy). Stay strong. I will have you in my thoughts.

Wallace: Friend, I am so proud of you. You will make someone a good partner. God bless you!

EC: Same a above; however, you must find some way to keep your ex from keeping you in her web. She is playing games with you and your kids. Spend the hour worth of money to counsel with an attorney. You must bring her mess to an end. I hate to see you go through this with her.

Relady: I hope things are going well for you.

Dave: I'm happy you have found another position. You really have a lot to be thankful for.

RMA: I can see you in the kitchen now. What's on the menu? By the way, how good are you with desserts like pies, cakes, etc.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/27/02 02:43 PM
Hi Petvet,

Thanks for the Happy Thanksgiving Wish, The same to you....We do have a lot to be thankful for despite whats happened....

I was posting on other threads this week trying to help other people, it's amazing when you try to talk about some issues you went through you have to go back so far now in my case, all mine started in 2000, now its going on 2003, what a way to start a decade....Exw will still have to deal with getting over me, then after her boytoy jumps ship she'll have to deal with that also, she could spend rest of her life dealing with all this....

I think I'll try to stick to this thread with you guys for a while, I tried to jump in traffic and help others with there post for the first time in a long time and I see there are some Crocodiles out there now that will snap you up like a duck sittin in water, its like there eyes are peering just above water <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> waiting. So maybe I'll change my name to Crocodile Hunter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway everybody in MB is unique regardless.

When I lived in FL I saw Aligators like I saw cats and dogs they're everywhere. I held a baby one and I thought man you'd make a nice pair of boots of course he didn't think so.. I think he was ready to snap me up after that.

You guys are right I should know where YD/OD are at all times as our agreement states...When I tried to hire an Attorney to do the CS modification, he said "Oh you don't need me' its so easy I would feel bad taking your money $1,000 just file this form such and such and boom its done..Well he said one form, I end up filing 10, as soon as I can serve exw, I'm done with all filing, all other papers have been processed by the clerk of court.

If I would have had the money I would have fought for my kids and made her pay me CS rather than see her drag them through all the mess and heartache she has done to them....I respect a woman highly and it's not a pleasant thing to see a woman pay CS, but when they refuse to fulfil there role as a mother and want to destroy lives, then I'm all for it. My heart breaks when I see women in prison, that is so below who they are....

Anyway Happy Thanksgiving!! Petvet,Davepr,Relady Wallace,Avondale, RMA and anybody out there that thinks you're alone for the Holidays or feels nobody cares that watches this thread.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/27/02 03:31 PM
Hello Everyone,
As EC would say, "Good Morning"!
"A new day and new things to discover".
I'm going to try to keep it light today everyone... if I can.
I just want to wish one and all a very "Happy Thanksgiving", first and foremost.
I hope everyone has something planned for this "Holiday". We could all use the break, I'm sure.
Prayers and blessings during this time to all.. Petvet, RMA, Dave, EC, avondale, relady, and all the other people here on "MBers".
May the Lord bless you always.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/27/02 05:37 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone has a wonderful Thanksgiving as well.

I'm off to San Diego for the weekend, I hope the sun is shining. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I'll try to stick to this thread with you guys for a while, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As I've said before, this is the best thread on this forum. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I've tryed posting other places and it's not the same. And when newcomers come here to post, they don't hear much whining and crying, so they leave because they really don't want good, solid advice, go figure! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

For me, although I'm not an experienced MBer like some <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I have gotten life changing advice from everyone here. Not only is it important to hear, it is also important to do and many people don't want to do the hard stuff, like changing their lives!

rma, davepr, petvet, wallace, avondale, Have a Blessed Day tomorrow, I am thankful for all of you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/27/02 09:58 PM
Hell to all my BEST FRIENDS!!!!

Happy Thanksgiving to all. Here is a brief note to each of you below, but know that I care about each of you.

EC,

I still suspect your exW may have been evicted, or she may be moving around to either avoid rent or to avoid being found to be served those CS modification papers! Either way, this woman does not play straight or fair in any aspect of her life. Keep emailing your duaghters until you can found out what is going on and where they are. They may be keeping you out of the loop thinking they are "protecting" their Mom, somehow. You can only know that you are doing the right things by your girls by trying to contact them, whether they respond or not.

avondale,

Canm I say "load of cr@p"!?!?!? I have myt masters and have done all the course work for a PhD, but have never finished the dissertation. I have several national certifications, in addition. By contrast, my guy friend has taken college courses (2 - 3 years worth) but never did finish any degree. What attracts one to another person - is it the "ststus" afforded by a degree (MD, PhD, JD, etc)? That is pretty shallow. I am attracted to a person who is articulate and interesting, loyal and faithful, loving and family-oriented. I have found these endearing qualities in a person without a degree. I have known many men who have much more education, who do not possess one quality that is important to me. That is just an EXCUSE. He must feel really low self-esteem, if he feels he needs a highly degreed wife to make him feel happy. Prayers for your meeting tonight!

Petvet,

Ah, you are beginning to know me quite well, my friend. I would be embarrased to write out all the food I am cooking for tomorrow. I will have many, many dishes, but will try to cook smaller quantities so as to minimize the copious leftovers. I decided not to make pies - will have 2 desserts (I always have 2) - a chocolate delight (sorta like a cross between a chocate pie and a cheesecake) and either frosted brownies of a cinnamon spice cake. I am having 10 and all of them young but me and the guy, so I am leaning toward the brownies for the young-uns. Can't be on here too much as I am trying to put together everything that can be done ahead, today, including cleaning the silver and setting the table - china, crystal, silver and fresh flowers - nothing is too good for my family! I treat them like the best company I could possibly have, because they are!

davepr,

Glad you were able to secure another job within your company. That surely must take the load off you! Best of luck with the new job. When do you start?

relady,

You go, girl! Gosh, I am so proud of you! I could not imagine going to a concert at the same stage aas where you are now. I* am so happy you have such a good attitude! Of course, if I had known then what I know now, I may have been able to save myself at least some of the emotional torment I went through. Who was playing?

Hope I haven't missed anyone. Lord, I give Thee thanks for each person here and pray for the restoration of "self". Amen.

God bless you and your families, RMA
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/28/02 03:40 AM
Hey Y'all
I realize as I write this that you're probably all gone for Thanksgiving. Please accept my belated "Thanksgiving Wishes" too. I read all your notes and appreciate ALL the feedback and encouragement!

Much to my surprise, my daughter met her dad for lunch today, last minute arrangement. She called me afterwards and -drum roll please - TA DA! ! She now realizes for herself that he is under the influence of some "evil force". I think she thought that she could just tell him how she feels (hurt, angry, upset, embarrassed, etc..) and he'd somehow understand and want to change. She saw first-hand, for herself how much deception he is under about his current choices and situation.

Fast forward to tonight...he comes over, we make small talk for a few minutes. I think from my perspective it went very well. I was able to rebut everything he said, point out a few fallacies, and poke a few holes in his excuses. The only thing we totally agreed on was our "spiritual differences" which basically means he no longer holds to any belief in God, Bible, etc... The fog is confirmed and still very thick - he felt his lunch with daughter went "great" and that "things will be fine between them" and "his parents support him more than he expected they would" (both of which aren't true).

So all in all, I think things went well because I had clarity when I spoke, didn't cry, and made good points. The chat with daughter produced good results in that she saw for herself what we're up against; only God can change his heart. I'm so thankful she is mature for her age!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, and thanks for being here to support me . Y'all are the greatest! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dave , congrats on the job, glad it worked out for you so easily!
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 11/29/02 02:04 AM
Thanks Avondale... I am glad meeting with WS went as well as expected, although I am sorry he is still deep in the fog.. I pray that God helps him come out of it soon.

I did alot of reflecting today... mostly on being thankful for all our health.... but last year I had Thanksgiving by myself, my FWS had Thanksgiving with the kids and OM.. wow, how things can change in a year..... I remember last year that I treated Thanksgiving as just another day... I kept busy, did some work around the house, and then had a sandwich and a
bowel of soup for dinner.. Today, we spent Thanksgiving as a family, with my sister and brother-in-law from NY, and some neighbors...
it was a good time... Last year I went the entire day without speaking to anyone.... I probably did some posting here but that was it, no phone calls, no conversation,etc.. I wish that all marriages could be worked out but I know that is not the case but I do know that in the end we will all find happiness. I wish that there did not have to be some much pain in this world...
I know that going through this is the worst pain ... until you have experienced it no one else has any idea.. The one that we all share here is that we all know how much pain an A and seperation and/or divorce can cause.
You guys and gals have been here for me through the bad time and the good times, I just wanted to thank you for that, God bless you, I hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving. Please take care yourselves.
Dave
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/29/02 02:59 PM
Hello Everyone Its Me, Fudderfickle <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ,

Hope your Thanksgiving went great and ate as much as you could.

I spent my day at my Aunts house with about 40 people there so things were busy. I go over there every holiday since I've been back and on my own now. They began flipping through old photo albums she had pictures of my wedding 1983 I never knew existed, they were shots and scenes I never saw before of the wedding and reception, I was taken back in surprize, so that stirred up some tears of emotions <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> , then I had to remember "Let go" its dead.

OD/YD never called on Thanksgiving, I find this odd and strange. At this point I don't know if should file a missings person report or not? If something has happened and I don't file something I'll look like the irresponsible father that had no concern. At the same time I don't want to blow it up bigger than what it is either, OD/YD could just be having fun as teenagers not aware of what a Holiday call means.....but I haven't heard from them in weeks?

One concern is that if I spoke to them I was going to ask where are they? If exw is in hiding I'm sure she would keep them away from me. Maybe her car is in repo status again? Maybe she did get evicted? At this point regardless she is in violation of our dissolution agreement about the kids, I should know where they are [address] at all times. Hard to know whats happening when you're 1,200 miles apart.

Hope eveyone can learn from this of what I'm going through that not all fathers who have lost contact with there kids, is there fault, never tried and did it on purpose. As you see I tried to keep communication, visit, buy gifts, etc only to almost be taken to jail falsely over child support issues that had nothing to do with my faithfulness of paying. So there are some honest guys of Integrity trying to do the right thing and pay but who are also dealing with women who lost there marbles, when I hear the term [deadbeat father] I see now you have to know the whole story before you judge, many fathers are innocent and tried hard.

Take Care....
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/30/02 06:17 AM
EC
I'm glad you had a relative to be with yesterday, but sorry you had the pictures dredge up memories for you on Thanksgiving.

Your daughters should definitely have called you and your exwife should have made sure they did. I would file a report of whatever kind is appropriate. You need to do it for several reasons: 1) to cover yourself just in case something happens, or it is used to prove you don't have an interest in their welfare, and 2) to hopefully find out where they are, and 3) it's a matter of principle, since it's part of your dissolution agreement. Will this cost you anything?

And as for your last paragraph, you have NEVER seemed like one of those deadbeat dads, so don't worry about anyone thinking you are. It is obvious you have integrity and are trying to do the right thing. You have more patience than most people in your situation.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/29/02 08:50 PM
Avondale - It wouldn't cost me anything to file a report I'm going to do that today here shortly...If I don't they could twist it around on me...Yes, she should have made sure they called, even today if possible, just to let me know they're ok. They didn't call me on fathers day this year either but as least I knew where they were, maybe I shouldn't be so surprized but I thought we all OD/YD grew and progressed into a new restored relationship since then, so I don't know whats happening...When YD left me a message a few weeks ago the she got the TV, at the end of the message she said, Love you dad, I'll try to call you later..

Davepr - Thats some great progress and growth, keep up the good work...
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/30/02 06:50 AM
Hi all!

I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving.

EC: Idea! Why don't you file a missing persons report for your kids? I mean you don't know where they are. Your exw needs to be held accountable. Let law enforcement get involve and do the dirty work for you. How about child protection services?
Just an idea. You are a good father. I wish you would have gone for custody.

Me: I spent most of Thanksgiving by myself. I spent a hour or two with mom, cousin, and aunts. Kid was with his mom until late afternoon. For the past four or five years, I have hated the
holidays.

Later.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 11/30/02 12:50 PM
Hello, all.

My Thanksgiving was great - had 10 0ver and we had a wonderful time. Lots of good food, if I must say so.

EC,

I really feel your exW is having some major financial problems. It explains all the moving, and goes along with her history of having the car repossed. Look, maybe your daughters never called due to lack of a telephone and/or acess to long distance? Could be that the phone is shut off. I have no idea about the missing persons filing, but it wouldn't hurt to discuss with your local authorities. When you do get a chance to speak to your girls, offer them the chance to live with you. The 19 yo doesn't need her Mom's permission, and maybe not even the YD. You can provide them with a stable home and if they are being constantly evicted/juggled around, this might seem like the "life preserver" it really is.

Many prayers and hugs for you, EC.

To all, including Petvet - use the holiday time to focus on what blessing you DO have - your son is a major part of your life. See that others here don't have that and would love to have that. Try to focus on your blessings and more joy will come into your heart and your life!

God bless all, RMA
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/02/02 12:16 AM
Hello Everyone,

Well before I got out to file report if kids were missing or not, exw calls. I say the sherriff tried to deliver the CS mod papers but said according to the current residents statement you didn't live there and haven't for awhile, she said, yes we moved, I said when? She said 2 weeks ago. I said why come you didn't tell me?, she said I've been busy!!!, I said, I'm suppose to know where the girls are address wise at all times....She said <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I told you I was moving, I don't have time for this mess!. I said and on top of that you didn't have them call me on Thanksgiving. She said I told them to call you, they're old enough to make there own decision and also you said when you talk to them its always a oneway conversation you're always the one asking all the questions and besides they're grown I can't make them do anything so I don't see what the big deal is!....{to me she's excusing herself out of guilt, she stummbled when I brought this up I don't think she said nothing to them}

I said the big deal is you're not abiding by what you wrote up for a marriage dissolution agreement that I never wanted to sign in the first place, she said "I don't have to hear this mess and argue with you and then she hung up. I haven't heard from her since.

I did found out by the loan co she is late on her car payment again but not in repo status yet.

The loan company was jaw dropped on the phone when I told them again the car is not with me we're in 2 seperate states. They said why come the divorce?, I said one of many reasons is exw had her a boytoy and he of many was driving the car that has my name on it. They said what a awful thing for her to do, they said is he still driving it? I said as far as I know, I said my sister saw it for herself. The loan company said that's awful we'll see if we can get your name off of it. Have her send a notarized statement stating she wants you released from it and that she's in sole possession of it and we'll see what we can do, I said that would be great.

So anyway I'm sending my final papers to the courthouse, I'm not going to try to track her down, let her wrestle with them now. I now know what city she's in, but for some reason that 2 week ago period she mentions is fishy, because she mentioned also she'll try to have YD/OD call me when they get off work....It sounded like there schedules haven't changed from 2 months ago and when I tried to deliver the ups package to her house they listed the place as "moved" nobody lived there...

This is what she had wrote me when I had the TV sent to her house weeks ago, at this time she said she was going to be away for a few days.

Her:

"I had called UPS earlier and had the box re-routed to a friends house in Jacksonville. The house is not empty. But I guess they would assume that since we didn't have much in the living room to begin with and we've been packing it all up. I had to tell them we moved or they wouldn't have re-routed it and I didn't want it sitting there for a few days". end

This don't make sense if the current resident at her place said they've lived there since early summer? Why would a box be setting for days if somebody lives there? Why would UPS be looking in the living room if somebody lives there? Why come UPS wouldn't re-route it you didn't live there?

What I think has happened is she left her job in June or got fired and moved to another city 3 hours from where she was, had the kids keep silence where they were all this time and now because I'm having people go by her old residence like ups and the sherriff its forcing her to tell me she is no longer there. I still didn't get an address because she hung up. At this point she'll have to explain to the judge why she broke the agreement she wrote up herself....Lesson to her, don't write something you can't abide by, she wrote her own sentence for kidnap of a minor child by hiding YD from me, whatever that might be. I told her when she filed for DV I said the same laws you use against me are going to turn on you oneday because you did it unjustly through betrayal, deceit and lying.

The statement from the residence in her old place that the sherriff has, she'll have some explaining to do, because she lead me on to believe she was there in one city but lived in another.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/02/02 11:49 AM
Hi all!

EC: Before I say what I have to say, I want to apologize if I offend you. I don't mean any harm. Since you live so far away from your kids, it is going to be almost impossible for you to keep up with your kids whereabouts and what they are doing. If you called Dr. Laura and told her your situation, she would give you a tongue lasing. She would tell you to get your possessions and move closer to your kids or file for custody of them; otherwise, you are going to be going through this mess over and over again. Could you find a similar job closer to your kids? You must do something EC or this is going to drive you crazy.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/02/02 03:19 PM
Hi Petvet,

I'm not offended at what you suggest that would be a logical thought and thing to do is to be closer. The problem with that is when WW separated in early 2001, I was living in the same city with them for about 6 months, they didn't speak. In that time frame, I was alone no friends or family, job, kids would not come by, they would not call, I was alone on holidays, my WW had her OM's at the time, still do......Kids would call if they needed a ride somewhere but while in the car they would say nothing, get out the car and slam the door, no bye or anything, they call the next day for a ride or money....repeat same actions for months, but I was patient.

One event that happened even when I was there in same city was, in May 2001 WW went out of town for 10 days and wanted me to watch kids at her house while she was gone, 5 months after d-day...Just to swing by and see how they're doing through out the day, she didn't want me to spend time in her house while she was gone and kids didn't want to stay at my place either they wanted to be teenagers wanting there freedom sorta. After a few days OD went to band camp for a few days, YD was there by herself at house.....

I get there to check up on YD one day but she does not answer the door, yet I see her through a window, the neighboor flags me down and says she has a boy in the house. I call WW who's on a trip 2,000miles away in Calif visiting one of her lovers, I ask her what to do? WW gave the ok to go in after she called YD on the phone, before she left I was given orders not to go in her house if she's not there, that's why I had to call. Me and neighboor go in to chase boy out, he runs out back door. YD now furious and says " This is Moms house you don't belong here, leave! Mom don't want you in her house no way, get out! I was stunned...At that time also OD was already angered and against me, now YD....I'm now no longer Dad but a stranger?

So WW gets back in town days later, She gets home and the next day I said we need to have a talk, too many things happened and happening thats not right.....I said how do you expect me to have any authority or say so in your home when you have taken the girls under your control and pushed me out of the picture and they have it in there head that only because you're out of town I am allowed to come around and try to be any authority in there life? That's confusing to them...I said you're out town sneaking around on me [she didn't know I knew about the guy in Calif] and I'm in town dealing with YD sneaking boys in the house...OD bad mouthing me, I said when is this going to stop?.....

So I proceed at looking into her eyes with desperation with tears in my eyes and said lets pray and I held her hand and she said don't touch me, I tried again and I held her and she then called the police, I was arrested and thrown in jail....prosecuting attorney dropped charges against me said this is a stupid case... He said your motive was right you did nothing wrong but touching somebody against there will that's considered domestic violence...even if you try to pray for them.....He then read the police report from WW and in the report the police asked WW well what did your husband do and say?...Statement " He grabbed me and started praying and said "Lord help our family"...and he also said I would stop having affairs. He then said " a woman like this is going to get you in a lot of trouble" you stir clear.

After that in May 2001, The prosecuting Att said stay far from her because she could set you up falsely and if I ever went to jail again for DMV I would spend 5 days and get a record unjustly....This is why exw is always trying to set me up around her BF because she knows if she can get me in trouble she knows what can happen.....I never been in trouble with the law a day in my life so that was all new to me, I was in shock...I had a horrible experience in jail, all 80 inmates laughed at me in jail because I was in there for praying....while many were there for drugs, break-ins, theft, somebody even stole my doughnut while I was there, but while there I was able to talk about the Lord.

So getting closer to them seems to be the logical thing to do, but in my case it's not wise, As you remember when I went there in May for OD graduation she had OM in her house and tried to get me to come over there without me knowing he was there, before I left, people warned me be careful and don't let her set me up as you see she tried, that was the same guy that said she belong to him she also went to calif to visit and said he would hurt me if he saw me....

So since YD,OD and exw turned against me during that time, no family or friends, couldn't find work in the area, not even stacking boxes, the best thing for me to do was move back where I was from...In July 2001 I move 1,200 miles from there, here I got a job, family and friends, church, etc, so this environment keeps me balanced, happy and strong.......Getting closer when they still aren't speaking today I would get the same treatment going backwards, they haven't changed. I can't even get them call or to visit me here on a paid trip.

I will say to everybody, I have had my faults in all this DV stuff, I'm not perfect and have made mistakes and said some things to exw I wish I could take back, but I try to learn and understand and not do what I did before, its been a process of learning and growing nobody knows how you'll react when you've been betrayed many times over weeks apart and family turns against you. At this point if exw had a new relationship I would be more than happy to meet him and abide with him and for her to do the same with me in peace....Problem is that the guy she is with now is the same one who invaded my home, claimed my W to me, threaten me, thats why there's so much friction between me and exw, she wants me to be his friend and accept him into my life like nothing ever happened, like we were never married, she says she's happy with him, kids happy, what's my problem? So I'm trying heal from that blow.

So Petvet I'll be ok, I just have to come out of expectation mode and change my focus, I went through that with exw and now I have to go through the process with my YD/OD and realise they've changed and gotten older. If I'm expecting nothing then I don't have to worry about my feelings being hurt, takes all the power over me out of there hands. They know I was always hurt by the silent treatment but that will become a thing of the past shortly.

Take Care.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/02/02 07:25 PM
Dave , your post really encouraged me, as this is my first holiday w/o husband, and w/o his family. He had the big, loud family and mine is quite small - only my dad this year since my mom died last year. Of course my daughter is here and we're in contact frequently but that's not the same as someone in your own age group where you have the common familial bond. I'm glad your Thanksgiving this year is much better than last.

EC... I was wondering same questions that Petvet was, so thanks for answering them. I think I understand a little bit better. It is sad that you've had to move away, but I would agree it is probably the smart thing to do. A while back I started a thread about "Separation/Involvement with the Kids = contradiction?" and got some great responses. Your situation kind of reminded me of the reply from LOSTHUSBAND. He didn't have a relationship with his dad for several years because of divorce, yet through a tragedy they began talking...after he was an adult. So there IS hope!
Here's the link if I do it right:
Separation/Involvement with Kids

I am wondering if we'll get a weekend dating report from anyone.....??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ?? hmmm...???

Relady, RMA ....hope y'all are doing well!

Little update on me again : I told daughter that her dad said "she understood" and "that she will come to accept his decision and their relationship will be the same as before he left" and she (unknown to me until later) immediately called him up and told him that categorically was NOT true. She said "just cuz I didn't yell and scream and throw things does NOT mean I have to accept your unacceptable behavior and disrespect to my mother." WOW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But that may have come back to bite both her and I, since we were excluded from family birthday party for my father in law on Sunday. The ENTIRE family (25+ ppl) were there but daughter & I weren't even invited. I think the lines have been drawn, or at least marked out now. It hurt but I should not have expected them to remain uninvolved in their son's (WS) life. And WS has said because they interact with him, he feels they support his decision. I know they don't (in their hearts) but we all know about tough love, right?? It's easier said than done.

<small>[ December 02, 2002, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/02/02 07:56 PM
Hello everyone,
Well I hope everyone had a fairly nice Thanksgiving.
EC...
Just a suggestion... I would file a motion to the Courts as far as a non-compliance concerning your original custody agreement. It lets the Court know that you are not an absentee father, and it shows your concern for your childrens welfare. Based on your current circumstances... it will not hurt a thing, and it will put your exW on notice not to fool around concerning the whereabouts of your girls.
I didn't hear from "OD" either. I guess she called and gave my "YD" her new telephone number about 2 weeks ago, and my "YD" lost it. So I have no way of contacting my "OD" at the moment.
avondale...
It appears that your meeting with your "H" went about as well as it could be expected.
I'm sorry to hear that your daughter wasn't able to talk much sense into her father. The (WS) does indeed turn into someone that you don't even recognize once it all gets started.
Hang in there... you can't change them, but you can work on making your life circumstances better no matter what direction the Lord leads you.
me....
I thought I was going to be able to breeze through this holiday with little or no set backs since I've been through a Thanksgiving withoutmy exW before... boy was I mistaken.
I started out pretty good, and then I had a number of triggers go off which put me into a funk for a couple of days. I'm coming out of it to a certain degree, but Christmas is well on it's way, and I have a feeling I'm going to have somewhat of hard time.
This is going to be a good test for me to see how far I may have come.
I'm taking it one day at a time... but I'm starting to feel a bit overwhelmed by it.
I'm saying prayers for all of us during this time, and I have been seeking the Lord daily, almost hourly. I don't know about how all of you are feeling about this holiday season... but it's starting to work on me.
Keeping the faith... keeping the strength.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/02/02 10:50 PM
Hi All

Avondale - Sorry to see you were not invited to the party, don't take it personal......I like the thread very insightful information...I try to really keep that in perpsective that this is not about my kids they're just caught in the middle under exw's influence and environment...As I always said if I could just get them here one time they would have the biggest celebration ever...

Wallace - I think it normal to feel what you're feeling, its like going down in the valley but as time goes on the valley is not as deep and as long I think after a while, we'll breeze right through these holidays....Thanks for the advice, I 've been calling around to law advisers trying to see what I can do to close this chapter...She's already in violation just by what the sherriff wrote in the statement that they could not find her nowhere in the city or county, phone co, light company, nothing forwarded.....Plus with the current resident stating they lived there for months, I don't know what will happen, yet...we'll see...by her own actions she caused this....
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/03/02 07:55 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone gained weight, ate whole pies, and had a 'as well as can be expected' Thanksgiving like I did. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC

I'm sorry about the pain you're going through with your daughters. It appears your W is spitting out venom to them, and I'm not sure even moving closer would help at this point. The only thing you can do is pray and love them from afar.

Avondale

Sorry you weren't invited to the party. Your in-laws probably don't agree with what your H is doing, but they don't want to alienate him either.
However, as grandparents I can't imagine them not inviting your daughter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Davepr

Thank you for bringing the real meaning of Thanksgiving back into focus for us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RMA

Glad to hear you had a wonderful Thanksgiving. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The concert I went to was, 'India Arie' I love her music. She doesn't have a large selection of her own songs, but she is so real in her music. Have you heard of her?

Wallace

I think we all had a hard Thanksgiving in our own way. Those triggers can be deadly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But please Do Not borrow the emotions from Christmas. I did that and it was horrible! Try as much as possible to stay in the present and replace those thoughts with the Word. It would be so easy(maybe) if we were like our WS and could just find a replacement person, until we're
through the holidays! But, then again, I guess that would make us no better than them.

Petvet,

Dr. Laura would be so proud of you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/05/02 06:53 AM
Hi All,
I wasn't around yesterday to post... I think I'm fighting a flu bug of some sort. My YD and OS have it, and now I think I'm getting it.
avondale...
I wouldn't take your in-law's actions too seriously... blood in most cases always sticks with blood in situations such as this. It's a shame that they excluded you and your children from the party... but it's something that is to be expected unfortunately. It may have been the first time this has happened... it most likely will not be the last.
It goes with the situation and the circumstances that you are in. I have learned that as long as I have my children with me for the holidays, that's all I really need to make it a joyous time.
UPDATE: I had only two dates with my "lady friend" over the Thanksgiving Holiday... it was quite enjoyable, but then the triggers kicked in and I'm still dealing with it... on again and off again.
relady...
Hope you had a nice vacation. Glad to hear that you enjoyed the concert.
Also, thank you for the advice. I'm trying very hard to stay in the present, and I'm leaning on the Lord at this point in time to lead me through this... I'm having my moments though.
Since we are not like our WSs...I for one am not looking for a replacement like our WSs did. I'm moving forward, but there are those times when the past steps right into your face and you have to give it to the Lord to help get you through it. This will be my first Christmas without the exW, so it's new territory that I'm entering into. I'll get through it, it's going to be a bumpy ride but with the Lord's help... my children as well as myself will make it.
EC...
I'm not an attorney, but you should be able to go to the Court house and file a motion for contempt based on the evidence you stated that the Sherriff wrote. I'm getting ready to file a motion for contempt, based on the CS issue, and you can usually do this without the aid of an attorney. I've put up with the exW's nonsense for a little over a year of non-compliance concerning CS issues... it's time to pay the "Piper".
Petvet...
How are you doing? I hope you had a good Thanksgiving. I hope your holding up better than I am. I use to enjoy this time of year... but like you... I'm beginning to hate the holidays.
Dave...
Congrats on the new job... and thanks for that post... it helped put things into perspective. Hope is going well for you.
RMA...
You are so right... if we stay focused on the blessings that we do have, more joy will come into our heart's and lives. I'm working on it... thanks for the reminder. Glad to hear that you had a nice Thanksgiving.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/04/02 08:16 PM
Hi All,

Wallace - I sent my final paperwork to the court this week. In that I sent a motion of default since she failed to let me know where she moved, that means the court will proceed without her, they'll consider her unwilling to participate. The sherriff dept said they did a diligent search as well and couldn't find her, plus they have a statement from the current resident that said she moved in possibly March which is incorrect I was there in May but it still shows current resident been there for months for them to think back that far and say March and we're at the end of the year? Exw said she moved 2 weeks ago? Thats odd. You would think a new resident would realize they only been living there 1 - 2 weeks and wouldn't go back that far?...It's odd to that exw asked me send papers months ago to old address like everything was fine..

Anyway I can't believe that this legal stuff started in 2001 and now its going on 2003, I'm amazed also how exww drew up this dissolution agreement, had her money and was high on the hog, her OM's, disregarded my proprosals and now I'm seeing everything flip upside down on her, things went totally opposite of what she planned

The wrong people do to you unjustly using the Law will find themselves facing the same laws oneday they used unjustly against you.

Since I'm currently over paying in CS, I might be a Piper also..

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/04/02 09:01 PM
Hi EC,
I'm glad to hear that you went ahead and filed a motion for default... good move.
It is a tangled mess (The Court Sytem) that you get caught up in once all this wonderfulness starts up.
I knew full well that I would caught up in the system for some time to come once I got it all started... but you have to draw the line in the sand somewhere.
When I first filed for Dv., I had forgotten the initial date, (the Courts had to give me the exact date)... "drum roll please"... July 1, 2001 and a few reconciliations later... and I'm still in the heat of the battle. The marriage is over, but I'm still caught in all the legal garbage. It just doesn't seem to end.
I'm rambling now... but you made a very wise move.
You might be the "Piper" after it's all said and done... LOL
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/05/02 04:34 AM
EC and Wallace,
I can't believe it takes THAT long to get the legal stuff resolved! My opinion of y'all continues to rise; to have to be dealing with this YEARS later is unimaginable in my book.

Nothing new from me....except we got SNOW ! ! ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I don't plan on going to work tomorrow and it is beautiful outside, all white and quiet. Perfect weather to stay indoors and bake chocolate chip cookies, and enjoy a good book in front of the fire!
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 12/05/02 08:53 AM
Hi everyone..
over 1" of ice here in Raleigh, everything is shut down... I heard a tranformer blow and it woke me up, couldn't go back to sleep.. we still have power for now...

EC, glad to see you took some legal action...

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/05/02 11:59 AM
Hi all:

EC:Your exW is vicious and evil. I'm glad you file the comtempt papers in court. She is a total mess.

Relady: There is a lot of buzz about this India Arie girl. Can she REALLY sing? I hate when headline acts jump out on stage and sing everybody elses stuff except their own.

Avondale: As Wallace said, family factions will take hold. Your H family will probably stay on his side. It goes with the territory. It may take years for the family issues to get resolve if ever. This type of family mess disrupts everything. That's why I am trying to cut the cord from w and get this d thing taken care of otherwise it goes on and on and on.

Wallace: The holidays are horrible for me, but I intend for that to change real soon. I am too not looking for a replacement. I need good associations and friendship. It is good to have someone good to talk to from the opposite sex.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/05/02 03:45 PM
Hi Everyone,

Thanks for the encouragement....For the first time in all this DV mess do I feel like I've had any rights or opportunity to do anything for myself regarding any legal rights...she's always had the upperhand and could just drag me through the law at her will and do what she wanted to me..

She's going to squirm now because its out of my hands and she'll have to deal with the courts herself. The court date won't be until June 2003 at the lastest. Its amazing when she filed for DV I worried what the court was going to do to me because she was trigger happy with the law, now by her own actions she'll have to wait in that anticipation of what they'll do to her. She was short of bringing my head on a platter before the judge and with the DV system more favorable to women in FL, I didn't have a chance.

So I'm sure I'll get some sucker up and nice calls from her now since I filed without her and the courts have a statement from the sherriff, who knows this may cause her to really sober up. This could really be the fog buster if they decide to investigate her the possibility of kidnapping a minor.. hiding YD whereabouts and keeping her quite is what they will look at.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/05/02 09:21 PM
Hi Everyone,
Well... I think I'm fighting the Flu bug... it's trying to take hold of me... but I'm not going to let it.
EC, I think in the long run, you will find that you made a very wise decision concerning your childrens whereabouts. Sometimes when the tables are turned people start seeing things from a completely different perspective.
petvet, I'm glad to hear that your going to beat those Holiday blues... I'm too sick right now to worry about the blues. I guess you have to start feeling better in order to get the blues. Oh, and by the way... I enjoy the female friendship that I have, make no mistake about it. I'm not looking for anything more than what it is right now, and right now... it's a good thing.
avondale, I can't believe it's taking as long as it is either, but once the wheels start churning... they just keep right on going, and going, and hopefully it will end sometime in the near future.
You have the right idea on a cold snowy day... curl up in front of a fire, get the stove going and start some baking... that's living in my book. That's what life is all about.
Oh how can I forget those ice storms when I lived back East. I don't envy you there Dave... it was always an adventure when you tried driving on black ice... I don't miss that part.
Well... I'm going to try to finish my work day and then go home and get some much needed rest, and see if I can't kick this Flu bug.
I hope all of you have a good day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/05/02 11:54 PM
Hi All,

I hope you're all having a wonderful day now that it's almost over.

EC,

Your stbxw is really something. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I'm praying that you will be strong in this battle, and that's exactly what it is. "Don't be weary in well doing, in due season you will reap, if you faint not". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale,

I'm a little jealous of your snow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That's one of the things I miss, at Christmas. RMA,

It's 80 degrees here and I'm trying to get in the Christmas shopping mood. It's not working!

Petvet,

I first heard of India Arie last year when I saw her in Las Vegas, she opened for 'Sade'. She plays guitar and has a style similar to Lauryn Hill. I think she currently has two Cd's on the market.

Wallace,

I hope you win the fight with the 'Flu bug' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Did you hear from your OD during the Holiday?

Davepr,

I remember those days of ice. Lighting a match to my key to be able to open my car door. Don't miss it at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

rma

Hope you're doing well.

Nothing new with me, of course, you'll all be the first to know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/07/02 07:00 AM
Hi Gang,

It's Friday night hope evetyone is having fun doing whatever you do on Friday.

I was just doing some reading and YD called me about 2 hours ago. I saw that somebody was trying to call me the day before based on my caller ID but the number was blocked saying private, only exw does that, I thought it might been exw but it was odd times in the day when I'm not home, I said she knows my schedule so it can't be her.

Anyway YD called to say hi and was doing most of the talking, boy was I surprized? From what I gather they did move about 2-3 weeks ago, YD said her and OD were able to transfer on there jobs, kfc and sonics and start immediatly in new city..Sad part is I asked YD what is she doing with her money?, thinking she is doing the teenage thing maybe blowing it on junk, but she said her money is applied to paying bills around the house not because of her age being responsible but because they are without..Of course YD only works 2 days a week making about $200 a month part time...exw is really having it hard in order for YD having to spend her money for survival...

I can tell YD appreciates all that I was doing financially, now YD see's how I made a difference being involved in there lives, they value money and realize it don't come as easy as they had it before, the CS they are getting is not helping much, don't know what it'll be like once they cut it in half.... YD asked me what I wanted for christmas and I asked her also and of course she had big items on her list, things she could never afford. She said she wanted to come spring break but we'll see, she's been saying this for over a year now, like I said, I'm getting out of expectation mode, if she buys me something fine, if she comes fine. YD made mention, she can't wait until she graduates 2004 and she's out of the house. I said where are you going? she said to college. I wanted to dig and ask what was going on but I didn't, but told her I was always available to talk about whatever she wanted.

I spoke to OD, she was happy to talk, she was talking but answering questions and listening. Nothing new with her...she going to comm college full time..She sounded so humble...

So after I got off the phone it was different with both of them this time, it was like they were grown up, ready to see a different side of life with me, it was a very odd feeling, especially YD, sounded like she was ready to bolt if she knew she could have it better, both of them sounded like they were reaching out for escape to the norm but at the same time they needed to be loyal to there mom...YD said her new school is very different, they were once always in nice sunny hot weather, now its cold at night, big change...So they're going through a lot of changes, social and climate...I asked YD if she knew her way around the city yet or seen it? she said she really didn't care for it, she said she stays in the house but has nothing to do. I asked her the name of the city and its what I thought.

So I think what I'm going to do is just plan to buy YD plane ticket for spring and put the ball in her court....I told her about the family Thanksgiving gather, she said what? people still get together? I said yes, all your family was there and said hi, I said they gather every holiday, but its up to you if you want to attend, she was surprized.....

As I said exw has isolated them into thinking nobody exist and everybody is scattered into isolation as if they are..but its only exw's shame from her affairs/audltery that she hides them from family...

Anyway thats the latest story on them, something was different this time, don't know what but, I felt they were tired of the struggle and wanted to see something in Dads life.

I think exw's Sandcastle is finally breaking apart...Sounds like YD/OD are trying to rise up out of the ashes and move forward.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/07/02 01:31 PM
Hey Y'all
We have been hit with a HUGE ice storm here. I haven't had power since Thursday 7 AM. Ended up in a hotel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> but have a bad cold probably due to having to saw down a huge tree blocking driveway. This whole situation has made me really miss being married...before, these house responsibilities were shared (making sure pipes didn't burst, sawing trees, going back & forth checking on dog at home, insurance arrangements for tree on neighbors fence, etc...) I am really mad at hubby right now for leaving me! They are saying we may not have power restored in my neighborhood until Tuesday. Meanwhile, I am having to deal with the situation. Hubby called but to be honest, I don't want to relieve his guilt by letting him help. Am I stubborn or what? LOL

EC that is GREAT about hearing from your daughters! It sounds as if they are trying in their own teenage way to reach out and see what happens. I have a lot of hope there for you, because you can so easily represent hope to them!

Wallace , hope you feel better soon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Relady, what state are you in now?

Hope everyone stays warm... catch ya later!

<small>[ December 07, 2002, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/07/02 01:56 PM
avondale,

I read your post this morn and sure could relate. This same thing happened to me after my exH had left - a huge storm that knocked down many pine trees and tons of branches in my yard that I had to be responsible to clean up. Also, I was without power back then for 4 - 5 days. At least yours called and offered to help! Mine didn't even care enough to call and see how I was getting along. Again, for me the hardest part back then was the total lack of caring. Do as much as you can by yourself or by your own resource. Self reliance is a GOOD thing!

EC,

Glad you heard from your girls. Do you have an address or only a city? You need to let your lawyer know the circumstances of your YD's living conditions. You should have custody as you can provide a home where the needs can be meet without your YD having to contribute to pay rent, groceries or whatever. Also, with all that moving around, I can just put money on it that they are either being evicted or sneaking off owing back rent. Not a good stable environment for a teen.

Wallace,

You seem to be hanging in there fairly well considering. I know it has been a long drawn out thing, but eventually you will get some peace in your life. Keep fighting for what you believe in. Stay warm and enjoy the weekend. Hope you are feeling better!

relady,

Yes, I have heard of her. It's nice you could go and enjoy yourself - take a mental break from all this mess whenever you can! 80 degrees! Wow, you must be very south! It's early - you still have time for shopping. I do mine all year and like to have it basically done by Thanksgiving so I can focus on the holiday and the meaning. I will start holiday baking today. Cookies, cookies, cookies!

Petvet,

You are mighty quiet, friend. Companioonship is good, and yo deserve that for sure. Just try to focus on getting through this and the companiohnship will comer. As I said before, you will be super surprised at how many people may want to date you once you become available. I was floored to be asked out that much by people I had no idea were ever even interested! Then, there are all the people you haven't even met, yet! Your time will come once you are done with this. Hos is your son doing? Any more news on the divorce court date?

Dave,

Raleigh, huh? Saw that mess on the news. Should be alot better by now, or at least I hope so. I was prepared here, but we basically just got really cold rain and not the ice. I just went out to look at my garden this morn and it is doing nothing. My new puppy has also dug up alot of the veggies. But the ones there are not doing much of anything. I think the sun may be too low in the sky in the winter and the garden isn't gettin g enough hours of sun and heat. Oh well, I still will tend to it and hope!

Gonna close now to go and make a big pot of veggie soup. I love to make soup on really cold days and it was 26 when I got up a couple hours ago! Plus, I'm gonna start on those cookies, so I have a full weeekend ahead! All, have a wonderful weekend.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/08/02 09:03 PM
Hi all!

EC: I'm glad that your YD/OD called you. Please invest the hour of attorney fees and visit you lawyer and try for custody of your YD. Enough is enough. Why let your kids suffer any longer than they have to? I know it won't be easy but you have to do right for them. Go for it!

Relady: You must like to get out alot? Vegas, concerts, and cruises: you seem to be culterally aware person.

Avondale: Do what you can do and find a honest handyman to do the rest if not a relative. Please don't despair.

Wallace: Take care of yourself. I will not be surprise if the "friend" won't come over to relieve your pain. There are those out there who think that men can't take care of themselves when they get sick. You may need some of RMA's soup.

RMA: Yes, I have been quiet lately. Doing a lot of thinking. You know something; I was jogging through the park this morning and observe the same couple park in the park again. This is the second time in two weeks. As I past their cars, I looked over and shook my head. They have been doing this since last spring. The lady had a JESUS tag on the front of her mini van. I hate that at least two families are going through pain. I just want this D stuff to be over. I just want peace. How are you doing?

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/09/02 05:16 PM
Hi Everyone,
I hope everyone had a nice weekend. As ususal it went by too fast for me.
I'm back up and running... but I'm not at 100%. Attempted to do some Christmas shopping and just put a scratch into it.
relady...
In the situation that your in... it sometimes becomes a good thing/bad thing type of an (and I hate to use this word) affair.
With me... I was glad that I had not received any bad news from exW, but I hated just existing in a state of limbo... I as well as my children wanted to at least hear something from my exW... anything.
It at least would give you an idea of where you stood and what you were dealing with at any given time. I would of accepted "I hate your guts"... I'm through with the marriage... anything. But I stayed in Plan B. and so did my exW and... well you now the outcome.
Speaking of Plan B. I have not heard from "OD" since she left. She called the house about 2 weeks ago and talked with my "YD". "OD" gave my "YD" her new telephone number. She got rid of her cell phone and has a new home phone only. Well my "YD" lost the telephone number soon after she got it and before she had a chance to give it to me or my son... so now we have no way of reaching her... even in an emergency. My "YD" is very bad at relaying any sort of telephone messages.
I think "OD" quit her job some time ago... because her work was calling us at our home trying to reach her.
EC...
It sounds like your "YD" may be trying to reach out to you, but has not been afforded an opportunity to make the jump. I think it would be a great idea to offer to pay her way over to see you. I would extend the same offer to your "OD" as well. It will at least give them an opportunity to communicate with you without any outside influences. It could be the chance to become closer to them and communicate with them in an open enviroment.
avondale...
I'm sorry to hear that you got hit so hard by that ice storm. I saw that on the "Network news"... it looked like quite a mess.
I can relate to what you were saying about shared responsibilities in the marriage, and not having them when you could sure use some at any given time. You trying to deal with the ice storm and all of it's effects, and me being down with the flu bug and still having to keep going... meals, laundry, kids and school... etc... it's no fun.
So are you being stubborn? I don't think so... I think you need to prove to yourself that you are capable of handling the situation on your own. You don't want to show any weakness... especially at this point in time. Without attempting it on your own, how will you ever know how you will fare in that type of a situation if you don't face it head on. Sounds like your handling it well.
What's the saying? "Never let them see you sweat"... LOL... hang in there avondale your doing good.
RMA...
Veggie soup.... "hmmmmm soup, homemade cookies. That sounds sooooo good. I was down to my fighting weight of 163 lbs, but now I'm back up to 170 lbs. even after I've been down with the flu. You think I would of lost weight, nope I gained 7 lbs. I'm not sure how I pulled that off.
Just as soon as the holidays are over... I'm going to start working out daily again.
I'm hanging in there in spite of all the wonderfulness surrounding this holiday season. Sounds like your doing well and staying warm and busy. Sorry to hear about your garden. I'm going to have to grab some gardening tips from you come this Spring.

Petvet...
Did you have your crystal ball out? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
My "lady friend" did offer to come over and take care of me and help out with the day to day chores. I thanked her for her nice gesture, and told her I appreciated her offer, but I decided to get through it on my own. But it was nice to know that there was someone there that cared about my well being as well as my kids. I don't know... but I think I'm really starting to have feelings for her... I'm getting a little nervous. I have to keep reminding myself to stay the course, and take it slow and easy.
You "have" been somewhat quiet here lately. It's sometimes good to stop and take a good look at what your dealing with, if it moves you in the positive direction. We all do it... just don't let it take away your ability to improve yourself and your circumstance. In other words don't dwell on it for too long... because it will work you... and sometimes not for the better. It's especially hard during this time of year.
Hang in there my friend... we are here for you.
Dave...
I hope you faired better than what I saw on the TV. That was a nasty storm. We had one here about 3 years ago... and we were without power for about 5 days. It shows you how dependent we are on electricity... Hope things are going well and you dodged the bullet during the storm.
Stay Strong!
Wallace

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 11:28 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/09/02 07:32 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. My weekend was spent putting up Christmas decorations, something I hadn't done before. Now maybe I can get in the Christmas shopping mood.

Avondale

You showed strength by not letting your H help you during the ice storm. He is probably still scratching his head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> And not used to you showing strength. I'm proud of you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> If the storm gets too bad, just jump on a plane to Southern California and we can not Christmas shop together <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Davepr

You may want to catch that plane as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Petvet

I try to be a well rounded person. During my marriage, my H spent most of his time in a recliner and I being the 'dutiful wife' wouldn't go without him. He would only go after much nagging! So, now I have no one to consult, I get my ticket and I go.

How are things with your son? Is he better at the new school?

EC

You're handling your situation well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think I would try to get younger daughter to visit you and after she realized she can have a better life instead of running here and there, changing schools, etc. She may just convince OD? What do you think? Is your YD open to visiting you for the Holidays?

RMA

Would you kindly sent some of your Holiday cheer this way and don't forget the cookies. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With me... I was glad that I had not received any bad news from exW, but I hated just existing in a state of limbo... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To me, it doesn't feel like limbo, my strength comes from knowing that things will happen in God's perfect timing. There are very few days that go by that I don't think of him. Sometimes I cry, sometimes I'm just plain angry. I could contact him tomorrow if I choose too. But if I haven't heard clearly from God to do this, then my H's heart would not be in the right place and it would be like opening an old wound. He's made it obvious where we stand, it's not necessary to verbalize it. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> He hasn't called me because he doesn't want to hear what he thinks would be my questions, nagging etc.

Little does he know, I am realizing who I am in Christ and I don't care why he left, he said enough before he left to ring in my ears for a lifetime, if I allowed it to. I could no longer be satisfied with nuggets he would throw at me to keep me 'under control'. I deserve better.

Somebody play the 'Superwoman' theme song, I feel strong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/09/02 10:32 PM
Well I'm back home with electricity after 4 glorious nights at the Sheraton Hotel. LOTS of cleanup to do, especially with the yard. Tree branches are everywhere! DavePR probably has it worse, because there were people from his town at my hotel...evidently even the hotels where he is in Raleigh didn't have power and it sent people here (60 miles away) just to find a room!

Wallace, if you gain weight with the flu then I hope that's one bug I don't get! Can you call directory assistance to get your OD's phone number?

EC , I agree with the others. Send a plane ticket, maybe even to each daughter separately, addressed in separate envelopes (assuming you can send them w/o ExW interfering). That way they can each decide independantly what to do. Obviously you want them both, but just in case the older one might influence the younger negatively, doing it that way may help. Or just send to YD and see what the OD says...

Relady, I will be glad to join you in SoCal...maybe that should be where the next MB reunion is, LOL.

RMA, I'm not sure of your timeline. How many holidays have you been through w/o your husband (and before you met your "guy friend")? Any words of wisdom?

Petvet , I've re-read the Tough Love posts from last year, so it appears this is also your first Christmas actually without your wife. So that makes several of us "first timers". I think this is a great group of people to go through it with. Open up and share what you're feeling, I know you're out there!

I have put up outside decorations (nothing new, I did it myself most other years too since hubby was busy playing - June and Dec. are busy musician months). But haven't quite decided on a tree yet. Hope y'all have a good week!

<small>[ December 09, 2002, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/10/02 01:44 AM
Petvet,

What a thing about the couple in the park. I hatew that you have to have such frequent remninders of something so hurtful to you. Doing alot of thinking, huh? Well, introspect is a good thing I think. The holidays are really tough, Petvet, as the emphasis is so much on family. I remember how lonely and hurt I was. This will likely be a tough time for you and your son, too. Just know that no matter how bad things are this year, things will eventually get better. Look at me...I am a living example that things can and will eventually get better. We can all only pray for relady's faith. Her faith springs strength and courage in the face of pain and adversity. It only shows that if we truly put our trust in God, he will deliver us from even the most painful of situations. Petvet, you have become a dear friend. I know your "quietness" is significant. You have moved a bit further down the line in processing your grief. Methinks you are moving more into the acceptance mode. It tends to leave one feeling pretty "flat". Please know that I care very much.

relady,

You little ball of fire, you! I admire you TREMENDOUSLY fror your great faith and your great attitude. I wish I had one-half of your great trust and faith. You are truly a special person, relady. God is using you as a witness to amny people here. This may be one of those cases where something wonderful is bon from tragedy. You are reminding me of a butterfly breaking free of the cocoon. You spread your wings, little one, and fly as high as you'd like!

Wallace,

Glad you are gonna make it! Honestly, I had to crack up - Petvet really had your situation plugged! And here I was warming soup for ya. Oh well, I'll just bet you perked right up when your lady friend came to see about you! Aw...isn't it great to have someone to care so much!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale,

Ugh! I do not envy you all that cleanup. Just take a little at a time, and eventually it does all get cleared up. I have been without my exH for 4 Christmases, counting this one. The first was the very hardest. It hurt me to the very caore. I had bought and wrapped all thesde gifts for him. He came over a few days before Christmas and accepted all my gifts. I had gone to a lot of trouble - picked very thoughtful and personalized gifts. He opened them all and took them and thanked me. He gave me nothing and not evena phone call to me or the kids. He just was so uncaring. Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and New Year's were the worst days of my life, other than the original discovery day. I never felt so alone or so unworthy. I really felt unworthy and worthless - my own H didn't even care. You know, somehow this was the beginning of the end of my aloneness. I asked my exH on a date a couple weeks later. We wnet to dinner and it was a huge deal to me. I shopped for a killer new outfit and we went to Ruth's Chris Steakhouse - a real fav of his. We were having a good time, and I just had this "feeling". I asked a couple questions and got the "wrong" answers. It was like that night I saw my thenH in a whole different light. I saw him as a man who was totally using me. Here he was telling me he had just bought this houseboat and the OW was moving from FL here to live with him, and here he was on a date with me! Honestly, I just saw him in a whole different light. The cheating was there all along, but something inside of me told me to walk away from this man. I do belieeve it was God telling me it was time to give it up. You know, I finally had to be the one to file for the divorce. You know, I wonder if he would have ever filed??? I think he was happy using me and her. I see it that way, and perhaps I am wrong. I finally came to see him as a person using me for his own gain and really not caring about me at all. I believe that night was the turning point and that God gave me permission to move on that night. I just felt totally different about him from that night on. Doesn't mean I didn't still hurt and didn't grieve, because I surely still did. I hope this made sense to you.

EC,

Yes, plane tickets are a great idea. I hope you can be more of an influence on your girls. I pray they keep in close contact with you.

Davepr,

How is the new job going? How are you and your W doing? You haven't really mentioned anything lately other than about the incident with the other couple. Are you two reconnecting?

Take care, all. The holidays are really tough. I just remember saying to my sons that first year that the NEXT year my holidays would be soooo much better, because I couldn't possibly feel any worse. You know what, the next year's were 1000% better.

This too shall pass....

RMA
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/10/02 04:34 AM
I have just BRIEFLY scanned this thread & I am amazed! relady posted on another thread that she normally posts here cuz it's the best thread on the board. Now I know where you guys come from when you swoop down and post. I hadn't seen many posts that you orgiginated cuz y'all are here !

In the near future, I'm going to read this whole thing as it looks like there are some valuable insites here!

D.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/10/02 04:08 PM
Hi Gang,

I greet you this morning with Hot Chocolate and Bagels......

All those that are snowed in I pray that you stay encouraged things will work out. I went through that at the beginning of 2002, most of the city out for 1-2 weeks, but the people recovered can hardly tell anything happened.

Glad to see everyone preparing for the holiday and living life to its fullest...

Just to answer some questions...When exww first left in Feb 2001 knowing she was living a lie in all her A's and for the fear of my 2 D's I tried to convince them to come stay with me and told them the hard times they were about to face and that I was thinking about fighting for custody of them but they bucked and screamed and said they would not come and they wanted to be with there mom. At that time exww had already begun the brainwash, she would talk to them like she was there age, telling all her dirty work and creeping. She would make deals with them such as " If you do something that's wrong with a boy, I'll let you slide and no punishment if you don't say anything to me about what I'm doing and keep quite", After I caught exww in one of her many A's and I told OD/YD why I was crying, later she approached OD with, You remember what you did at the mall the other day? remember i'm letting that slide, remember our deal, she had them sworn to secrecy... I was fumming when I found this out...So them being 15,16 at the time there thoughts were...Why stay with Dad and risk getting in trouble while we can stay with Mom and do our own thing and get away with mom? That's why YD had boys in the house when exww went out of town and YD told me to get out, exww did nothing to YD for her actions, they agreed, no punishment.....Therefore Dad is the bad guy, mr police who's presence in the home was considered wrong according to exww.

So custody was considered at the start but they resisted and wanted to stay with there mom. YD wants to visit me, I was told by exw back in Aug or Sept OD hasn't made up her mind if she's ready, she still has anger feelings she still trying to overcome but was close, so I haven't pushed OD, so as you say YD will have to make an impression on OD.

I asked OD about her driving skills, she said she hasn't got her DL yet, nobody will teach her. I was so taken back because at the time when I was teaching her is when all Exww affairs were discovered and we stopped. We would go out just me and her and I simulated a teenagers atmosphere, I said ok, let's change the car into how it's going to be when you get down the street away from Dad and the house, so I cranked up the radio loud to her station rolled the windows down, looked for all my friends and started waving at everybody and pretended to be on a cellphone, Oh I know, bad trainer, hummm? No, I was just trying to relate with her but I showed her what accidents all those things can cause, but she had fun....After she told me nobody was available to teach her I wanted so bad to finish what we started but we're so far apart, I know she can go to a driving school but our family tradition has been you're taught by another family member and pass it down.

I try to get behind them and support there life and career issues, Exww is more interested how she can endure with OD till she become independent and live on her own while going to college ,she's also waiting for YD to get 18 and out of HS, then they're all parting ways...exw plans to move to Calif in 2004 and leave YD/OD on there own...Exw has no vision for them or concerned about there mental well being how they're going to deal with future circumstances, her focus is all on her of how she can jump into the next bed with whoever, always with the attitude of "Next"!......

I'm sure she's still sneaking and cheating, my YD asked me to get her, her own private line because exw is always on the Internet, nothing wrong with that but exw does her dirty work with it, I just can imagine all the activity, it was horrible when I was in the house. I considered getting YD her own phoneline problem with that is exw will cut the house line off and use YD's line, I'll be paying the bill, exw is sneaky, I have no trust for her.

If I get YD/OD here one time its going to make a strong impact on them because I learned and studied my kids Love language, I know what makes them feel good, what brings out the best in them, what they expect.....Example: one of OD is spending quality time, she loves to watch old movies together, ,hugs,setting the table, I was her biggest fan when she was in band. YD's is service, she loves to serve and baby you, thats why she's stuck on being a baby doctor. But she likes being served also, she loved when I would go all out for her, because she was doing the same in her own way...I miss all that from both of them...

Exw knows none of this, I tried to tell her this kinda stuff but she could care less, she says learning from a book is for the birds, thats why she continues in her ignorance and her A's this day...Thats why ALL of her relationships will end in disaster because information dealing with relationships is pure junk in her book, still don't care to learn about men and there emotional needs.

Sorry I know this post was long, guess I'm making up for lost time...Thanks Everyone for your input, oneday I'm going to have a celebration story about my kids I've only seen them both for 5 mins in 1 1/2 years....you would to be a family guy to understand the pain.

PS: I had this thought, have you ever wondered if your WS or ex was reading your post or thread and knew or didn't know it was you? Wouldn't that be something? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/10/02 04:51 PM
Good Morning All,

I hope you're all staying warm. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RMA

First of all let me say thank you for your most kind words, I give all honor to God.

I didn't just arrive in my strength overnight. For the past five months, I have studied the Word and literally applied it to my life. I internalized verses that showed me who I was in Christ, when the enemy bombarded me with negative thoughts, I replaced them with the Word. Otherwise, the pain would have been unbearable. God was the only one that could help me. Through that I came to depend on Him completely. He has a way of getting us into a position where we have no where else to turn.

In my journey, I discovered the following truths:

I could call on Him in the middle of the night instead of being told, "talk to me tomorrow, go to sleep!"

I can tell Him my darkest secret and He won't save it for future reference!

He loves me unconditionally, not just when I'm looking or feeling my best.

He will never leave me or forsake me.

He encourages me to be the best that I can be, and not discourage me when I make a mistake!

I can cry and whine all day and He won't consider it a weakness.

I finally know what it means to build your foundation on a rock!

I could go on, and on but in my book it says,
God-10 H-0 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC

That's funny, I thought the same thing, what if our Ws's were reading this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But, do you really think they are that smart? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/11/02 06:37 AM
Hi Everyone,
I hope everyone has a good day today... I'm going to continue my trek into the land of shopping for Christmas presents tonight... so wish me luck.
WGTT...
Welcome to Petvet's thread! We do gather here quite frequently, and every once in awhile I'll jump out, and post something elsewhere. I have to agree with relady and echo her statement that this is one of the best threads on the boards in IMHO. How have you been doing?
relady...
"Look, up in the sky, it's a bird, it's a plane, no it's relady... you are truly doing super, and you are an inspiration. With the Lord at your side you can't go wrong.
We checked with directory assistance to see if they had a listing of my "OD" new telephone number and at this point they show no listing. She may have had it placed in her "BF's" name. We are still checking though.
RMA...
When your under the weather, their is nothing like a good old bowl of hot soup. Homemade chicken noodle soup... hmmmmmm... chicken noodle soup.
I'm going to have to borrow Petvet's crystal ball... it seems to work very well.
Petvet...
As much as I'm dreading going through this Christmas... I have decided to put on a happy face and grin and bear it. I'll let you know how I'm making out.
avondale and Dave...
Hope you don't have too much of a mess to clean up. I don't envy you... I have had to deal with that before.
EC...
Did you give that any thought, as far as paying the airfare to have your "YD" and "OD" come out and visit with you?
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/10/02 07:58 PM
Hi All,

Wallace - Mr Loverboy, hummm, warm soup from warm hands, hummm?...Feelings starting to heat up hummm? Wallace are you being sweet on her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> you sly dog you..I'm happy for you.....I plan to send YD/OD plane tickets this spring.

Relady, You're right about are WS's able to read our post and understand...As my exw said to my sister "You mind your own business you big bunch of gossipers!!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I cooked a turkey last night, it almost turned into a crispy critter, its been awile. I pulled out a cookbook later and looked at all the pictures and my mouth watered,I said oohwee! I can have this and this and that, then I looked at the ingredients and work involved and said Oh well maybe next year closed the book pulled out the hotdogs, I guess if I get married at least she'll have a cookbook waiting on her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'll just stick to the Bar-B-que grill, each time I cook outside the neighboors push there faces against the glass, I turn around and look and they close the curtain only to return when I go back in the house, thats because it smells so good.

Hi Petvet,RMA,Dave,Avondale,Relady,Wallace and our new guest WGTT.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/10/02 08:51 PM
Wallace I am doing very well considering the circumstances. Reading others posting in dispair makes me realize that I am in a good place. Actually I am seriously considering filing for DV. (After the Holidays) Originally it was cuz Steve H suggested it based on WH's activities but I'm feeling more and more that it's for me. Bramble Rose talks about the peace she felt the 2nd time she filed for dv. That is where I am right now. Alanon is really helping me (only took me 17 years to get this program and that it is for me) Life is getting exciting again, there are things that I look forward to and when I do things I have fun living in the moment. God is good.

Also comments on GQII about recent Dr Phil show saying that if you will never trust him/her then be honest and move on. For me to trust would take action and time on the part of WH. He still is in heavy fog and denial. It's hard to let go for lots of reasons, and I am working on the ones I can change and really praying about the situation.

To all the rest on this thread, I havn't gone back to read even the recent postings to get a feel for where everyone is at the moment.

<small>[ December 10, 2002, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/11/02 04:00 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I can't believe how bad that storm was. That was a smart thing for you to stay in the hotel for a couple of days. Going forward, you may want to consider options for getting things done around the house in case of emergencies or just regular house stuff.

Wallace: I hope you are doing much better. It's a good feeling to know that you have someone who cares about you. I think I am coming down with something.

EC: Based on what you have said, with your daugthers age, the problems may fix themselves once they become of age, but I would recommend what someone else said earlier about inviting them to visit you and show them what it's like to live in a good environment; maybe, they will want to live with you.

RMA: Thanks for your kind words. I am going to get through this stuff. I'm still talking on the phone with the buddy. It is good to have a good conversation with someone of the opposite gender. I have to put this D mess behind me. I am seriously thinking about going to the Sugar Bowl to see my Bulldogs. I need to start planning for the holidays now. I cannot bare spending the holidays alone again. I may take kid out of town. I may take him to the Sugar Bowl with me.

Relady: California,uh! Cold weather, warm weather, hmmmmmm? I hate cold weather. California here I come! Here in the city to busy to hate, we just missed that ice storm that hit the Carolinas and NE.

Has everyone decided what they are going to do over the holidays? Let everyone start thinking about the holidays, so that none of us are alone and feeling pitiful for ourselves.

Later.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/11/02 04:07 AM
Hello,

I read the last few pages of this thread and have a better idea of EC & his story. I cracked up when I read that you were put in jail for praying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

It's sounds as if xww & kids used to live in Jax. Did you live there too? My OS lives there & I visit from time to time. I am headed to Jax then up 95 to Penna for the Holidays. If you need me to check on anything I will. Xww & kids must have moved further north & not liking the cold!

I live in Fl & WH moved 1200 miles from home. MY D is 16. d's friend (parents are DV & lives with her dad now) is always over at our house & she calls me mommy2. I think that as your D's get older and have more contact with you that they will have more insite as to what they really mean to you.

D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/11/02 05:11 PM
Good morning everyone,
WGTT...
I read your post about your "YD" being in the "ER".
Sometimes the effects that a "D" or soon to be "D" can lead children to do some things that they normally would never ever consider. It can and does have as much of a crippling effect on them as it does us.
If your "YD" is open to it, I would try to get her into see an "IC" if she is not all ready seeing one. Try and find out what her feelings at this point truly are... I'm sure she is feeling just as bad as we all are when all of this wonderfulness rears it's ugly head.
((((((WGTT)))))
Prayers for you and your "YD".
EC...
Glad to hear that your going to get your daughters some plane tickets to come and visit with you. I believe it's a great first step in rebuilding your relationship with your girls.
"Hot soup"! Get your "Hot soup here"! Hmmmmm... soup... LOL.
You cracked me up... Sly Dog? LOL... I am however starting to take a keen interest in my "lady friend". There is nothing like tender loving care when your down with the flu bug. "Hot chicken noodle soup"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Petvet...
RMA was getting ready to break out the soup for me when I was going down. I'm sure she could make a very tasty bowl of "hot chicken noodle soup" for you as well.
Personally, I think when we are stressed (especially during the holiday season) it lowers our resistance to all the viruses that are out there. Being around many different people (shopping malls, etc.) doesn't help either.
Hope you start feeling better, get yourself some "hot soup" (worked wonders for me).
CHRISTMAS SHOPPING UPDATE: It didn't go well last night at all. I am going to attempt it again tonight.
relady...
I'm not too concerned about my exW reading any of my posts. I don't think she would take the time... she is too busy playing the "party girl", I'm sure.
avondale and Dave...
Hope you don't have too much of a clean-up to deal with. Let us know how you are making out.
RMA...
I think we are going to need some soup for Petvet.
Hope you all have a great day.
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/11/02 05:54 PM
Hi All

Hope everyone is staying warm where its cold and those where its hot staying cool.

WGTT - When we were married we stayed in Polk County (Central FL) for 5 years it was always warm, I'm back in Mo now. Exw and kids just moved to Jax...It gets cold at night this time of year thats new territory. I don't have anything for you to drop off or do, I don't even know where they live but thanks for the offer. I only have a Po Box in OD name and a Yahoo phone number to reach them so far, thats all exw will give me at this time, I have no restraint or no contact order issues going on, her OM is the dividing line between us....At this point if she had a new guy I'd be more than happy to meet him and befriend him, she's not obligated to me, thats his boatload of problems to deal with now.

Growing up I always had this fear about being behind bars, I never been in a police car or handcuffs, so while in the police car I didn't know what to expect but I knew the Lord was with me. What was interesting was the officer was sorry I was going to jail he said he was in the middle of a Dv because his WW was cheating on him, so he was trying to be nice but obey the law to. On my way to the jail I said this ride is no fun the handcuffs hurt, he said ok hang on I'll hurry so he floored the pedal to about 90-100 we got there quick. I had those thoughts of eating bread and water in a dark wet cell, only to get there in a bright cold concrete cell had to sleep on the floor no pillow or blanket 20 people in there. At first they all were telling jokes and laughing then they went around the room and asked what everybody was there for? My turn came and I mumbled my reason, they said what because you prayed? they said no way, then they all laughed? That was the first time, then it happened again in the large cell in the bed area about 80 people, I was there only 1 day that was enough. I remember this one guy was so down he stayed in bed wouldn't eat breakfast lunch or dinner, everybody would grab the food off his plate coming from all cells around if he said he wasn't eating, it was like a feeding frenzy....I marvelled at the activity...some guys been there for months...

Despite it all some miracle moments took place, I count it all joy, I walked out of there victorious! One Miracle was I called the bondsmen he came in 30 min. The guys marvelled because some been there for 2-5 days before there's responded on top of that I had no money, only my word, God moved for me. Paid the bondsmen 2 weeks later. I knew I was passing through but I was glad to see the oppression people go through there.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/11/02 09:42 PM
Hello,

Can you believe it's only 2 weeks to Christmas!?! D and I walked this afternoon & she asked if I had any presents yet. I have a few bought & most of the rest figured out - except WH. I'm not sure what to get him. Lately, I have taken old pictures that were in his family & had them framed or something special done to them.

This year, I just don't feel like doing it, yet I know I will do something. Someone on another thread suggested a cemetary plot but thats not in my plan.

Wallace I/C is not covered by insurance so I am looking for an alateen group. Tonight I go to Alanon so I will ask about it. Thanks for the concern. She's pretty good at talking to me about her feelings. I think cuz WH was just home over Thanksgiving something he said got to her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

EC Just know that if you ever need anything in Jax, my OS lives there & would help out in a heartbeat. I really like Jax & will be there next week for a short visit. We are going down to St Augustine to see the Christmas lights.

That is unreal about the bail bondsman, then again God is good. It never ceases to amaze me the things that God pulls off.

D.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/12/02 05:09 AM
Hi all!

WGTT: I have heard about Analon by name? I know it's some sort of counseling center. What does it specialize in? Saint Augustine is my favorite city. I was just there last summer. I would love to have a second home there.

Wallace: I think I am going to do most of my shopping on the internet. I hate the crowds. I am feeling better, but my energy level has been down lately. I hate cold weather. I'm tired of my life
being on hold.

EC: Try this: Tell your daughters that you are coming during the holidays to visit them? If you stay at a hotel, they can come to visit you there without you knowing where they live, but at least you can see them. Even if you went for a weekend, I know they would be happy to see you. If you ex prevents them from seeing you, that would be further grounds for you to get custody of them. What do you think?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/12/02 12:23 PM
Hi Y'all
We still have snow on the ground, making some yard clean up difficult. I filed my insurance claim today for all the lost food from freezer & fridge, totalled almost $500! My deductible for that is $100 so I should make out OK. Will file claim on trees later on.

I've started Christmas shopping a little bit. Wasn't sure what to get WH but I am thinking of something not personal, like baking bread or something. I feel that if I didn't do anything, that would be wrong (since we're not divorced yet), but also that anything I put thought into would not be appropriate under the circumstances either. So bread is something I'd make for acquaintances but not people who are close to me. WGTT , your idea about family pics is a good one. Maybe that would give him a subtle message about family, legacy, etc...

EC , I like Petvet 's idea about staying in a hotel and seeing if your girls would visit you there. It's a non-threatening environment. Could you handle that even if they chose to not visit you there, or would that be hard emotionally?

Wallace , what are you going to get your lady friend for Christmas? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My daughter wants me to go w/her and her husband to visit his family 4 hrs away Dec. 24-26. (Remember, its their first Christmas together.) She and I are dancing around the issue of the holidays and where/when to spend it and with whom. I don't want to go with them; I'd feel like the "odd man out" and feel they were all pitying me anyway (in a nice way). This will be the last holiday with my dad in the house I grew up in before he moves to SC in the spring. And I don't want to leave him alone since there are no other relatives on our side of the family. So I think I'll stay here with him and just miss both my kids. I know she's torn because she wants to be with us too, after all we've gone through this year. I'm glad she has a new family to interact with, though. I think this is one of those sacrifices parents have to make for their kids. We both definitely don't want to be around her father or his family, even though they have invited us to their usual Christmas Eve family event.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 06:31 AM
Hi All,

I hope you're all having a wonderful day. I brought a few Christmas gifts yesterday, purely out of obligation!

Check out this dream I had last night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> :

My H I were going away for the weekend, but after he consulted with friends, he decided he wanted to go alone. At this point I almost reverted back to my clingy, whiney self!(yes, even in a dream) I could see the same look of disgust on his face as he always did when he was preparing for my tears. Then all of a sudden I said, "If you leave, take your stuff and don't come back. His look turned to surprise and with that I turned, clicked my heels and went back into the house. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Then I woke up! I sure did feel good!/B]
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I choose to believe that God is showing me that I am becoming stronger, and that He is truly trading my weakness for strength.

[B]Avondale


You are very kind to think of a present for your H. I'm not going to even send a card! But you two have a lot of history together. Do you think he'll do the same?

EC,

That is a great idea to visit your D's. Would your stbx allow them to tell you where they are? Teenagers are so strange, why would they want to stay one step ahead of the police with her when they know they could be safe with you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .

Oh yeah, RULES

Wallace

Just a 'keen interest' in your lady friend, ha, ha, ha. LOL

Davepr, Rma, EC, WGTT

Hope all is well with you.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/12/02 10:06 PM
Hi Gang!

Petvet, Avondale, Relady,

I had thought about visiting OD/YD months ago but at the same time they weren't communicating, so that wasn't possible. Only until now have they both started opening up a little more. Meeting them at a Hotel is a good idea if I did go. I can't go for christmas since time is so short maybe in coming weeks or months. I'm sending them a computer for Christmas so that should tear down some walls also. They're slowly coming out of exw's influence so things are looking better. How much they see, I don't know, but they must see something.

I would like for OD to come here for her 19th B-day in Feb to have a big party but we'll see.

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/12/02 11:27 PM
Hi All,

Well I went Christmas shopping last night... eck!
My "lady friend wanted to go with me,and I thought it might be nice to have her go and we could Christmas shop together.

Well while we were in the Mall, a song started playing (background music). I didn't really take notice of this song that was playing, but all of a sudden... she started crying.
The song evidently was a trigger for her, and she had a very hard time of it. She said she was sorry for becoming so emotional.
I tried to comfort her as best I could... but all of a sudden, I started thinking about my exW, and I started having triggers go off as well.
Long story short... I took her home, and called her this morning and told her that I thought we should stop seeing each other since we were still emotional wrecks (I didn't actually say it that way, but in so many words) and she started crying, and said she didn't want to stop seeing me.
Well my walls are back up again, way up... and I'm still trying to sort this all out in my mind. I know I need to continue moving forward, but last night just shook me. I'm not sure if I should continue seeing her, or if I should just put some space in between us (which she said she would give me space if I wanted it) and maybe let the holidays pass by and try it again.
Anyone have any advice on this one?

I told her I was having a hard time dealing with the holidays and she accepted it, but then she starts breaking down... I'm not sure who is in worse shape at the moment her, or me.

O.K., now that I got that out there... I'm sending my exW a contempt of court motion for CS for Christmas... bread would be out of the question from my end. I wouldn't know where to deliver it anyway.

EC...

I think what you may be planning for your daughter's birthday would be a great move.

Computer for Christmas? That's a nice Christmas present.

In time... if your exW continues in the mode she is, your daughters will eventually see her for what she is truly worth. It took my kids awhile, but they figured it out. Give it some time... it will work itself out.

avondale...

As you can see, bread or anything thereof is out of the question for a Christmas present for my exW. Your situation is however different than mine, and I think it's a nice gesture by you that your willing to give him a Christmas gift.

Is he getting you or your children anything for Christmas?

Does your daughter know how you feel (being the fifth wheel) as far as Christmas goes?

How much clean-up do you still have to do?

relady...

That was quite the dream... I've had a few like that. Haven't had any recently though.

I do believe that through adversity the Lord does indeed give us the strength we need to improve ourselves. I know I've come a long way... sounds like you have too.

I'm not sure if I'm keen on my lady friend or what at this stage. It's a crap shoot at this point.
I have heard that the first relationship that you have is usually a throw away relationship... they don't work or last... but I don't know how true that is. It's starting to appear that way. Of course it's not what I had intended.

Petvet...

Are you getting into the Holiday spirit or are you having as much trouble with it as I am? I know I can't wait for this to be over with... it's a bad time of year for me. Too many triggers.

Dave...

Hope your damage isn't as bad as what I had seen on the TV. let us know how your making out when you get time.

RMA...

Are you ready for Christmas? I may need that soup in the not to distant future if you still have it.

WGTT...

have you had a chance to read anymore on this thread? I hope your doing well today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 03:14 AM
Hi Wallace,

Man what an ordeal (triggers)......I appeciate your honesty to share you're personal experience with us...In looking at what you said, I just wonder if she has given herself enough time to be single and heal? and is this to deep of a level relationship for you right now?

If she was overwhelmed by emotions, was it because she is still in love with her ex or was it the pain of the loss...

A song has never affected me to remind me of my exw only the holidays...so I consider that normal...if I was affected by a song I would examine what was I feeling love or loss?

If she is feeling love still for her ex then she could be in a rebound with you. I'm sorry I forgot but how long has she been DV'd? I know people can be seperated for years before divorce..

The only thing I would be concerned about as I said before is she is meeting your needs now, you are meeting her needs now, people change and grow over time, will you both not need each other later the way you see each other now? Will you meet someone else after you realize you are still single and decide not to date seclusive? did both of you give each other time to explore life a little before getting somewhat serious?

Just my thoughts...Keep the faith.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 04:46 AM
Wallace Being female I wouldn't take the triggers too hard. Tears can still come to my eyes over my grandmother & she went to be with the Lord in 1988!!! And I don't even consider myself an emotional person! Triggers happen but that doesn't mean that what you have is not right.

The book Mars and Venus on a date has helped me (I have not been on any dates) It was interesting to look back at WH & I dating from the perspective of this book. I saw some things that I would do different next time (if there is a next time).

Maybe you guys are going to fast but that doesn't mean that it has to be over just different. Do you think that she likes you more than you like her?

There are some sections that would be revelant to your situation right now. It goes thru the stages of dating and how they are different for men and women as well as the common mistakes that are made.The book is easy reading and short. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

As far as going back in this thread to read - I havn't - yet. That will probably come slowly & maybe not until the Holidays. Some days I would feel overwelmed if I let myself! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Petvet What would you suggest doing in St Augustine? I was there recently with only enough time to drive by the water front on my way to a project then had to get going to another appointment. Before that I was there in 5th grade!

Alanon is an organization with no outside affiliations for friends and families of alcoholics. It's no fun that a person needs this organization, but if you need it there's not a better place. Consider yourself very fortunate that you havn't had to deal with alcoholism.

EC The computer is a great move - also a way for them to communicate with you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Avondale The bread gave me an idea, a food basket with items from the farmers market near my Mom's. The pictures that I have been doing are WH's side of the family or WH as a kid. Today I thought about what you said about the pics & maybe do a family remembrance. ( I will be filing after the Holidays) He keeps everything and is very sentimental. Can't go on with this train of thought as I am removing him from my heart.

relady dream on ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

D.

<small>[ December 12, 2002, 10:54 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 12:42 PM
(((Wallace))) I'm not normally a huggy person....I'm sorry the incident at the mall happened. I am sure it was awkward and I hate that you had to go through it, triggers and all. I consider holiday shopping to be something almost intimate, because you are sharing yourself, your inner thoughts with someone else and opening up in a way that is different from normal conversation. I do think the incident shows you something about this relationship, the same things that have been shared before on this thread.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not sure if I should continue seeing her, or if I should just put some space in between us (which she said she would give me space if I wanted it) and maybe let the holidays pass by and try it again. Anyone have any advice on this one? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can't go wrong by putting space between yourselves. Doing this does not preclude having a relationship in the future. It just slows things down. (Have you heard that before?) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC - computer is great gift! If you have an online account that allows for free other users as sub-accounts (like AOL), you may want to consider letting them get an ID and come under that account, so they would have online access to email you.

Relady - That wasn't a dream, that is your real life! You ARE getting stronger and more independent (in a good way).

Petvet - Post something <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Do I have to go down to Hotlanta to check on you? May have to have RMA send some soup to you via UPS.

WGTT - I went through Al-Anon due to son's behavior. It really is a great support group for families dealing with addictions.

RMA, Dave (still no power?) - hang in there, only 13 more days to go until Jesus' birthday!

I think my husband probably will get each of us something for Christmas, but not sure what form it will take. My daughter does know how I feel (fifth wheel). I feel better about staying here so my dad won't be alone. I will mail my son his Christmas gifts as soon as he gives me his address (I hope he even has one, LOL) since he can't be (or should I say, isn't allowed) here for the holiday. Purchased and decorated the tree last night, trying to keep some of the old traditions alive. This first year is weird, trying to figure out which traditions to keep and how to make new ones with this new situation I find myself in. But so far I think I'm doing OK.

<small>[ December 13, 2002, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 03:42 PM
WGTT,

Welcome to the thread. You are a great addition, because you have already given Wallace some great advice. The book you suggested can't hurt, for sure!

Wallace,

Sounds like too much too quick for you and the lady friend. Neither of you has healed quite enough to be able to truly give the gift of yoruself to the other. Let time handle these things. You both can be companions and great friends, but try to pull back from falling faster than either of you can honestly handle right now.

Petvet,

Like minds think alike! I was also in St Augustine this past summer. I had a great time but hate the lack of parking in the most popular places. Didn't do the trolley this time, and probably should have. A trip with your son would be great. Do you think you can work it out with your W? I would imagine she would like to see her son on Christmas Day, too. Hang in there, friend.

EC,

A computer is a generous gift to your daughters. Of course, the best gift is one of yourself. I hope it works out real soon for you to try to get together with them.

relady,

Your dream reminded me of the Wizard of Oz. Dorothy clicking her heels to get to the place of her heart's desire. You walking away may be a significant factor in this dream - a representation of how you really feel deep in yout heart. Interesting....!

avondale,

I like the idea of you staying around with your Dad. You know, ultimatley, we have to stand up and face the music, no matter if we like it or not. Being alone for the holidays is not fun. You will likely struggle to make it through. Just try to keep injecting your brain with imagines and thoughts of all those who DO love and care about you, vs. dwelling on the one who is not treating you well.

davepr,

You haven't posted much lately about yourself, so I'll just say Hi and that I am continuing to pray for you and your family.

You guys have a good one! RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 05:47 PM
Good Morning Everyone,
Thank you all for the great advice. I knew this relationship was moving too fast.
My "lady friend" called me last night, and we had a very long talk about what had happened. We are both in agreement that we need to heal, and that we both have a long way to go.
In so many words she said that she is still hurt over what happened to her (her H had multiple affairs and she threw him out). She stated emphatically (sp?), that she is no longer in love with him... in fact she told me, that she was in love with me, not him.
I laid my cards out on the table, and told her that I'm an emotional wreck at this stage, and maybe in time, I could eventually reciprocate the same feelings to her, but I couldn't guarantee anything at this stage... and if she was willing to accept that, then I would still continue to see her, but not so much.
She indicated to me that she wanted to help me heal, and be there for me. It's almost like the "Florence Nightingale affect". I don't want to hurt her, and I do have feelings for her... I'm damned if I do, and I'm damned if I don't. I'm in a quandry over all of this.
Then... to add to all the madness... my OD called yesterday and talked with my YD.
OD told my YD that my exMIL called her the day before Thanksgiving and wanted her to come over for Thanksgiving and give her, her birthday present. Now my OD's birthday is August 18th, so what in the world is with this? IMHO, these people are out to lunch.
Well... there is even more! exW called OD, she somehow got my OD phone number (we didn't have it but she did). on the same day as exMIL called... and invited OD over to see her new apartment and meet her "NEW" BF. According to OD she didn't go over to visit either one of them, and I guess my exW has been calling her at least 5 times a day since then, and leaving messages to come see her new apt. and BF.
OD gave us her number, and now I have it, with her address as to where she is living, so I at least know how to get in touch with her now.
I really hate this time of year! I can't wait until the holidays are over.
I'm going to get that Venus/Mars dating book... it can't hurt anything, it can only help.
I know how you feel avondale, what do you keep for a tradition, and what do you start out new with...
Thanks again everybody for the advice, I need some positive direction right now.
Thanks for listening
Stay Strong!
Wallace
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 12/14/02 06:50 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"I really hate this time of year! I can't wait until the holidays are over."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Wallace.

As far as hating this time of year, let's remember that it's the birthday of our Lord Jesus. It's probably safe to say that without Jesus teachings there would probably not be the MB that we know today. So from that perspective we should rejoice.

Keep up the good work.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 08:11 PM
Hi TMCM,'

How have you been doing?

You're absolutely correct, I should be rejoicing in the fact that it's our Saviour's birthday coming up.

I'm not at my best now, but I haven't lost sight of that.

The frustrating part is that society as a whole has turned this time into a commercial celebration of who is getting what, and how much,
instead of truly acknowleding and giving thanks to Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.

I guess that's one of many things that I dislike about this time of year.

Thanks for the reminder.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: LostSoul28 Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 08:57 PM
Hi All, I have been reading all the posts in this thread to date & would like to 1st of all say I know what all of you have been going through & thank you for sharing your experiences.

I am in the middle of a divorce now since my WW began an affair with her co-worker. She has denied the affair from the beginning & it wasn't until I moved out of the house that my suspicions were proven correct. The OM moved in the day after I moved out. I do not have the strength to type at length right now other than my experience to date has been virtually mirrored by all on this forum.

I admit that I could have been more attentive to her needs during our 2 years of marriage but infidelity literally rips your insides out.

I wish everyone here all the best in their recovery efforts & just wanted you to know I share in your sufferings.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 09:31 PM
Hello Everyone !!!!

Avondale25 I'm impressed that you put up a tree and decorated it ! Last year was 1st year WH wasn't here till late on the 23rd & he had always been Mr Christmas. So I picked out the tree at a tree farm. OS helped get it home & it was 2 stories high <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It didn't look so big in nature!

I took the easy way out this year - I'm going to my Mom's so that I didn't have all the triggers staying here would. Asked YS if he wanted a tree, etc & he said NO- we're goning to Nana's <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> So I just put up a few things (which was a trigger & left me in tears)

Wallace You mentioned that "She wanted to help me heal ...." That's a warning sign to me, not nec. bad but something to pay attention to. There are people who just like "fixing" er helping others. This is something I am familiar with in a personal way. alanon is helping my identify character traits.

The best thing for this year might just be to get thru it & sort out as you go along what traditions you keep and what new ones you take on.
All you can do is all you can do.

Lost Soul Welcome to MB but sorry for the reason you are here. Have you read the information on this website? Feel free to post when you are ready. There is lots of support here aas well as grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat folks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TMCM & Wallace Thanks for the nudge - Christmas has gotten so commercial & I have been searching for how to make it more meaningful for the kids and I &to get back to the real reason that we celebrate - Jesus.

Petvet,RMA, Davepr & relady Have a great day!

I am feeling good today, just came back from an alanon meeting where I poured my heart out. If I didn't have MB & alanon & the Lord right now, Im sure I would be in the loonie bin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> There is one area that I've got to work thru is today, we got approval to refinance our mortgage but credit cards have to be paid off from the proceeds. That was ok with me as that was part of what I was going to do - but I was going to pay mine NOT WH'S <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> He put us in this position <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

God Bless

D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 10:46 PM
Hello again,



WGTT...

I'm just curious... as far as warning signs, what do they tell you to look for in your ALANON group?

Glad to hear that you got your refinancing, that is probably what I'm going to have to do as well. EXW left me with a massive amount of credit card debt.

Lostsoul...

Welcome to Marrigage Builders, and Petvet's thread.

I'll echo what WGTT has stated... there is a lot of great people here that can help you through the trying times and give you some good positive direction.

I'm sorry to hear that you know and understand the suffering that everyone not only here on this thread, but on these boards as well has gone through or is going through.

It is one of the most painful experiences you most probably will ever endure.

Let us know how you are making out when you feel your ready.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ December 13, 2002, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: LostSoul28 Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 10:56 PM
Hi WillGetThruThis & thanks for the welcome. Unfortunately, I did not find this site until it was too late.

I gave up everything in the divorce prior to confirming that there was OM, the divorce should be final by 1/2003.

I only started looking for forums like this after I realized what a fool I had been & the hurt I am going thru, hoping that by taking the high route & not splitting our property she would somehow come back to me. I now know the true reason she would not talk to me after the "I don't love you anymore" speeches towards the end.

I can only wish that this pain is not inflicted on other people who were in the same situation I was, being lied to up until the very end & to this day, WS still denies the affair.

Again, I wish the best for everyone on this board.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/13/02 11:22 PM
Hi All,

Wow! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

This has been a very busy thread in the last few days. Me and my big mouth telling everyone this is the best thread! OK, I won't be selfish <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet,

I just noticed in one of your post you mentioned that you were tired of your life being on hold.

You have to choose a different path for yourself, choose to move on mentally. IMHO, If you continue to think about your circumstances, ex. stbx coming back, etc. you will be destined to wander around in your circumstances(wilderness) for a much longer time than you should. Let the children of Israel be a lesson for all of us. Until we learn contentment, we will repeat the same lesson until we get it right. Just know that God is in the middle of your circumstances and He saw this day before you did and He has made provisions for it, however; you won't see His hand in it until you take your eyes off your circumstances. It's hard, but necessary. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace,

It appears that your 'ladyfriend' is still in the healing process. And the wound is still very deep if she could not control her tears with you and in a public place. Just My Opinion We all have triggers, but we handle them differently. I had one today while driving, I'm glad I had on my sunglasses(80 degrees, remember?)and was on my way home! But in public, I can usually control it.

And since you're both still healing, it very well may be a 'transitional relationship' and once you are both healed you move on where neither one is hurt. It happens. I think you're handling it well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Your W is probably trying to get on your OD good side since she knows you and her are not communicating! She'll be the 'perfect friend' to her and condone her relationship while putting you down, she thinks. I'm glad your OD is wise enough not to return her calls.

Avondale,

I finally got my inspiration, I had someone put up my lights, decorations are up, I'm hosting a brunch on Saturday for friends. I'm still debating whether to send a card to my H. I'm sort of stuck at, "if he sends one, I'll send one".

RMA

Thank you for that dream interpretation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You have really come very close to the truth. One day I want him back and another I don't like him very much. I'm trying to be consistent, because a 'doubleminded' man gets nothing from the Lord.

I think, when I don't like him, I'm having flashbacks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Just because I don't see results doesn't mean God is not moving. Hey, that's something for the mirror!

EC, WGTT, Davepr I hope all is well with you.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/14/02 02:30 AM
Hi Gang,

What a busy thread today...Hello all the newcomers.

I was just going to pick up my pizza and decided to drop in....I don't have time to address everyone but I appreciate you all.

Relady - Tearing up behind those sun glasses? come on let it drip <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The nice part is that when we cry tears the Lord stores them up and turns them into showers of blessings back on us, no tear is wasted.

The PC im getting YD/OD is not brandnew, I wish but its enough for them to get there school work and play games on. Exw has a new MAC but she's always on it and the Internet. OD already has an email account on her Mac.

Have a start of a great weekend everyone!!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/15/02 01:43 PM
Hi all! Sorry for not posting as regularly as I use to, but my office has poor heat flow and when I want to get into my office at night , it is cold. I hate cold weather. Also, I have been real tired at night for some reason.

LostSoul: Welcome! Please don't listen to Wallace; this is not my thread(even though i started it), it's everyone's thread. There are many good folks here who help eachother through their terrible situations. I use to be like you and take junk just to keep peace. WRONG THING TO DO. We have to fight evil; otherwise, evil will florish. I was not going to move out of my house and leave my kid. I wanted to raise my kid and not be a visitor. WW would have kick me out of this house over my dead body. You cannot be too easy on these wondering folks.

Wallace: Sorry to hear that both of you had relapes. Both of you probably need to take things slowly. Please make sure that your friend is not trying to rescue you; if that's the case then your relationship may have problems once you both become emotionally stronger. You don't neccesary have to physically be with eachother everyday, but talking on the phone helps too. Send her cards, letters, flowers, etc. Those things have just as much impact as being physically there.
Oh! Back step, So your ex has a new beau? Interesting? I know you are not surprise. I told you she would contact your family sooner or later. Your exmil is still working behind the scenes. She may be trying to link your daughters back to your ex to try to get them to live with her. Watch things!

Avondale: If you want to give WH a gift, then do so. Give him a friend type of gift. I would try to stay away from the house during the holidays.

RMA: Saint Augustine is a wonderful place. Yes, the parking is not good unless you know those SECRET parking areas to park. I love to sit in the old Fort area and people watch. My favorite area is the beach. I love the water. I also love driving down A1A and rolling down the windows and just letting that warm air blow through the car. Also, A1A has good scenic ocean views. I normally use Saint Augustine as a central point to visit other areas of Florida (Disney for example). Saint Augustine have great eateries as well. There use to be a good restaurant named "The Chart House", but it is no longer there. (My hands are getting cold and becoming stiff-see what I mean my the cold in my office). What are you doing over the holidays?

Relady: Oh yes! I have had two dreams relating to my situation. None has come true yet. I don't know how to take these dreams. It puts you into a fog.

Dave: Where are you?

EC: Computer, if that does not win daughter over and make her want to visit you, I don't know what will. (Just kidding) I know you are not trying to win her over with a gift. This may make it easier for her to communicate with you. As someone recommended, see whether you can get a joint web account for her.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 12/16/02 12:05 AM
Hi everyone, well things are finally getting back to normal around here. Although we were only without power for 24 hours or so we didn't have phone service for a week. I was in Atltanta for 2 days last week and my son turned two on Friday so it has been busy here.

Wallace,sorry for all that is going on.. I know it has got to be very hard... from my experience usually these type of "rebound" relationships (don't take that the wrong way) don't last. But, I also believe that everything happens for a reason and maybe the reason that you two are together/dating right now it to help you heal and provide some comfort. Only you can decide what is right, I would just take things slow, you have both been hurt and will need alot more time to heal from this and only after you heal can you find out where your heart is at.

Petvet, so what is happening with the WS? Does she still want to reconcile? Is she still with OM?
Has she put forth any true efforts to make you believe that she is serious?

EC, the computer gift is a great idea, hope it works out.

TMCM, RMA, Relady, Avondale and everyone else... just wanted to say hi and hope you are doing well.

I know that this time of year can be difficult, I was there last year and it was rough... I know we need to be thankful for what we have, especially our health.. but it is still hard.
Last year I had the kids for Christmas, our first Christmas apart and bing legally seperated.. FWS calls Christmas morning... kids and I were opening up gifts.. she is crying then talks with d.. I get back on the phone with her and she is really upset... I ask her, Is this worth it to you? Her reply.... Yes..... Hard to believe how much can change in one year... just want to give everyone some hope, things can work out, one way or the other.. for those of you that want to reconcile, there is always hope.. for those of you moving on.. find happiness within yourself first, then God will help you to find someone special to share it with.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/16/02 02:50 AM
Wallace It's interesting that petvet picked up something too. He called it rescuing.
Here's what I see -

-She said she loves you yet it is still really early in the relationship. Does she need to need someone or has she really healed, done her homework (ex MB ...)and ready to move on and can identify someone right away as being the one?

-She said she wants to help you heal. Not I want you to heal so we can have a healthy relationship or something to that effect. She wants to be the one to help fix you. Sometimes people like that either keep trying to fix you or once you heal then they are not needed anymore and they move on, or maybe they stay but it's not based on honesty.

She may be an absolutely wonderful person and this may be off base. It's just something to keep in the back of your mind as you go forward. I know this type, since I am a working on being recovered rescue type person. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Alanon is helping me identify patterns and given me tools to help become a better me. Add MB to that equasion and I am becomming a fantastic woman! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

This weekend was really enjoyable! Fri. night I went to our community Christmas dinner & while there was asked to go to a Christmas concert that night - another had gotten ill & couldn't go. I wnet & it was soothing. I'm beginning to get more into the Christmas Spirit.

Then Sat night, I went with a friend to another Christmas concert went out to dinner & then drove around looking at Christmas lights. This nieghborhood goes ALL out!!! they even had sleighs being pulled by rain dogs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Many were having block parties sitting around fire pits.

Another one bites the dust This weekend a friend's wife left him. He knew I had been thru sh*t & needed someone to talk to. He doens't know if there is someone else or not & we talked about that possibility. He is heartbroken, numb and in terrible pain .... don't we know. It was a gift that I could share with him & in doing so helped me. I was able to tell him that he will get thru this, that it's about him using this to grow and be a better person (he admits he's always on her -where have you bee.....) that in time if they get back together then he addressed things he needed to and became a better person and if they don't get back together then he's better material for the next one.

WOW I couldn't believe that I could say that with such conviction cuz I believed it and lived it. I told him about MB & hopefully he comes here to read and to post.

Gotta help YS with a school project - last minute - grrrrrr

D.
airfy for me what Ithat it's all about me, about me growing being a better person, that I will

<small>[ December 15, 2002, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/16/02 06:17 AM
Hi all!

Dave: It's nice to hear from you. I cannot believe how bad you guys in the Carolinas were hit by the storm. I heard on the news that there are many people still without power. The answer to your questions is no, no ,no. Wife has shown nothing. She may be involve with same person; who knows. I could care less at this point. I just want her out of my stratisphere. I'm happy everything is still working well for your wife and yourself.

WTB(sorry for missing some letters): It was nice that you could be of help to your friend in need of assistance after his wife lefted him.

Wallace: You know friend; if you need and want companionship, you want someone who will not present anymore drama in your life. Please don't get me wrong, I am not saying that your friend cannot be a good companion, but I am saying whoever is your companion should not present any additional drama. Lord knows you have been through enough.

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/17/02 06:16 AM
Hi All,

I hope you all had a wonderful weekend.

OK, I need advice from you all. I'm still stuck between sending a Christmas card and waiting to get one before I do.

For those of you that don't know. I have been married three years, no children, haven't heard from or contacted H since he left 5 1/2 months ago.

Would it seem odd if I sent a card at this point? Would he think I was trying for reconcilation? Or is it to let him know I'm no longer angry? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Charlyn at Rejoice says sent a card, but Erin at Restorem says no contact period and let God do the work. So, I need help from the been there's <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/17/02 06:23 AM
Hi Everybody,

I hope everyone had a nice weekend. As usual mine went by way too fast.


Petvet...

I have to agree with you... I don't need anymore drama in my life. I have more than my fair shair already and then some.

I can understand how your feeling as well concerning your situation. I had reached a point where all I wanted to do was just get it over with as soon as I could. When you see no changes coming from your spouse, you are left with very little options.In my case I was left with the "no option, option"... if you may recall.

You better get some heat in that office of yours. I remember when I had first started my own business... I worked out of my garage... no heat at all. When I typed up quote letters (Brothers typewriter) the ink use to freeze and the keys would stick to the paper. My hands would get to the point where it just hurt to press the keys. AHHH! the good old days when life was good.

WGTT...

Thank you for giving me a heads up as far as warning signs and what to possibly expect and look for... it gives me an idea of what direction this whole thing may take.

In spite of everything that had happened... we are still seeing each other, just not as often. It may be a rebound relationship, I guess anything is possible. I'll just take it a day at a time, and if things get too out of hand, then I guess I'll just go my merry way.

It's probably not a good way to deal with it... but I haven't let myself get too emotionally involved. I don't want to leave myself open for anymore.

It is good to hear that you were able to give your friend some comfort in his time of need with his "W" leaving and all.

It must truly be hard for him considering the time of year. Of course I don't think there ever is a good time of year for something like this to happen, but it's a shame it happened right before Christmas.

It is amazing how far we have come... you don't realize it until you are confronted with someone else just starting to go through all the cycles of the break-up of their marriage. I wouldn't wish that experience on my worst enemy.

Dave...

A belated "Happy Birthday" to your son... where you able to have a nice Birthday Party for him?

I would like to extend a very generous, "Thank You" to you for the encouraging words you posted.

There is in fact always "Hope"... and I'm glad you pointed that out to all of us.

We are all truly blessed. The Lord does not foresake us, as he knows our trials and tribulations. He will lead us through this, and we will become stronger for it.

Glad to hear that things are getting back to normal.


EC...

I'm sure your daughter will be pleased with her Christmas present.

If she gets it hooked up to the net then you could probably strike up a pretty good dialogue with her. You could also set her up with "instant messenger". That might be a great way to communicate with her.

avondale...

You were able to get your Christmas tree up... for me... that would be a major feat all in of itself. I still haven't put mine up yet.

Is it definite, that you are not going to go with your daughter during Christmas?

Also, Thanks for the cyber hug... it was appreciated.

relady...

Hope everything is going well for you. I know this is a very emotional time of year... I had another trigger go off on me while I was watching the movie "White Christmas", with Bing Crosby.

I almost needed a pair of sunglasses when that went down. I was lucky though... I was home and I was watching the movie by myself. It gets a little rough sometimes.

As far as sending a card. If it is not in your heart to send a card, then I would not send one. Follow your heart and pray on it. I personally don't think it would hurt a thing to send a card, but I would keep it simple if you do.

My situation as far as that was easy. ExW or anyone on her side of the family never acknowledged any Birthday or any other holiday to any of my children. So I didn't send anything to them as far as cards or anything else for that matter.

me...

Well my OD called yesterday while I was at Church and spoke with my YD.

OD told my YD that her mother wanted to give her, her birthday present that she was not able to give her.

ExW left our home and never returned on April 19th... my daughter's Birthday was on April 25th.

YD told OD that she didn't want any Birthday present from her mother. YD told OD to tell the exW she didn't want anything from her.

I don't get this Birthday scenario. My exW and her mother should have given my daughters a Birthday gift on their birthday if they were going to give them anything at all... not 4 months and 8 months down the road.

Are these people strange, or am I just cracking up?

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ December 16, 2002, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/16/02 07:19 PM
Lost Soul , Please accept a belated welcome to this, the best thread on MB <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But shhh...don't tell everyone about it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Relady , I know you asked for advice from "been there's" for the card, but when others have mentioned their unsureness about cards/gifts with WS on different threads, I keep thinking to myself... Can you go wrong with sending a card? Especially for Christmas, marking the birth of Jesus? I mean, even in Plan B I think I would do that. One doesn't need to write a lot or anything at all, but I think that sometimes a card would get the WS thinking. And you can't go wrong extending an act of kindness, unless giving a card would make one emotionally vulnerable or something. Anyway, JMHO.

Wallace , that is the longest post you've ever done! LOL And yes, those people ARE strange! It will be interesting to see how badly their mother wants to give the gifts...will she mail them or take them by? Hmmm...

Dave , your words were encouraging, and I've re-read them several times since you posted. I admit sometimes it's even beyond my capabilities to have hope. That's when I just have to trust God. BTW, you fared better (only losing power 1 day) in the storm than I did (4 days)!

WGTT , you have definitely learned some of the principles of Alanon. The word "co-dependency" has really been over- and mis-used so much these days but in support groups like Alanon and Naranon, they really do mean something. You are already in a much better place than you must have been, your maturity in dealing with that shows through in your words.

I have been kind of depressed today. The only thing that I think might have triggered it is my daughter telling me that she is getting together w/her father this Sunday to exchange gifts. She didn't want to go at first, but then felt like the Lord was telling her to do that with him, and nothing more. (So who are we to argue?!) I don't begrudge her a relationship with her dad; she is mature enough to see what his problem is. But for some reason, just the fact they're exchanging gifts has hit me in a weird way and I'm not sure why I feel the way I do. Maybe reality is starting to sink in??
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/16/02 07:29 PM
Hi All,

Petvet - I see you're ready to move on with W still having OM, I understand.

Relady - Sending a card? that's a tough choice sometimes, the advice you got is one source from a BS org and the other a WS. Erin being a guy knows what tore him up the most I would go with his advice and not meet the emotional need. I remember I was sending my WW letters and cards in the first 5 months thinking she was pitching them because she was showing so much hate only to discover in secret she was carrying around every letter and card I ever sent her, daily. My heart just melted and tears came to my eyes because they looked so worn, yet she still gives me the impresion this day Dv was the best thing ever.

If I sent her a letter today I know she would carry it around...

Me: This weekend I stepped back looked in the past back to yr 2000, I prayed this weekend and asked the Lord to remove ALL bitterness and unforgivess I have toward my exw and bring me to a place of forgiveness and praise. My exw owes me a debt she could never repay and on top of that she knows she has committed a great sin against herself, i'm sure she wrestles with daily yet she chooses to live in it.

I want forgivness for myself, I'm at the point of letting go of the accusation despite what she did was real and hurt. Each time I've gotten to this point in the past she would afflict me all over again with OM now it don't matter. In the past months my hurt and jealousy got the best of me, I'm now on my way up and out of the pit. I want restored to full measure.

Joel 2
25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. 26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.
Posted By: LostSoul28 Re: Tough Love - 12/16/02 07:30 PM
Thanks to all for the welcome!

I do have one question though: It has been torturous enduring this period of time, my divorce will not be final until Jan at the earliest & I was just wondering how each of you have coped with the feelings & pain that come with knowing your WW has betrayed you & is living with the OM before the divorce is even final.

I know ultimately they no longer should have any meaning in our lives or control over how we feel, but it is very hard just trying to cope with everyday obligations sometimes. Any thoughts would be appreciated!!!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/17/02 04:23 PM
Hi Everyone,

Hope your week is going great and making some progress. Hard to to believe in almost 2 weeks we'll be in 2003.

I had an interesting thing occur. This guy and his wife I've known for almost 1 year now that interact with weekly are having serious marriage problems and I don't know what to say or even how to encourage them. The problem that they are having is a major "Trust" issue. The marriage was birth from an affair, they seduced each other, the guy was the WS his now wife was the OW. I was told he came from a perfectly striving marriage of 15 years. His wife [OW] is highly suspicious now and is chasing everyone away, they've been married for about 2-3 years and just had a baby recently, she took his cellphone from him and started answering and returning calls he was recieving from people, if only a number appeared she called them back herself. They are doing much arguing and fighting, it's really falling apart.

I don't know what to say to him, he knows I'm a BS and is currently trying to recover from betrayal and DV....He's overheard me before talking about the deception I went through with my WW, so he somewhat keeps me at a distant but we speak. They are both hurting but I find it difficult to give any advice because it was all built on deception and the whole foundation was wrong from the start. I told my exw her relationship would fail because how it was started with OM invading my home. So this is tough...Any thoughts?
***************

Lostsoul - How well and how long your marriage was prior to D-day or DV determines how much a person sufffers, each case is different. Mine has been tough because we were together for 21 years married for 17-18. The Lord has helped me to deal with a lot, I have lots of friends, family and MB partners. The pain eases as time goes by, I find myself going in stages of walking out of it, sometimes set backs. My biggest mistake has been putting myself in a position to be afflicted all over again before she was ready acknowledge her part of the failure of the relationship. I was trying to reach out to her when she still wasn't sorry. I got stung many times. So here one response I'm sure you'll get others.

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/17/02 05:00 PM
EC
That's sad about your friends. You are going to be coming from a totally opposite standpoint than where they are at. They probably realize that too, if you've shared anything about your situation. I would guess they don't know what to say around you, either. Trust is one of the BIG issues, in my book.

However, if you want to reach out to them, you could always just say something along the lines of "If you ever want to talk...." and let it go at that. I am sure that would be a sincere offer on your part, without you having to "water down" your opinion at all. Or let them know you're praying for them (as I'm sure you are). And it would show them that you do care about them, as people, regardless of their circumstances. Sometimes the simplest statements can carry a lot of power.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/18/02 06:16 AM
Hi Everyone,

avondale...

In regards to your daughter and "H" exchanging gifts during this Sunday, and you feeling kind of depressed. I think it's only normal to feel what you are feeling.

For all intense and purposes... your being left out of a family tradition that you most probably have been involved since day one (exchanging of gifts for Christmas with family) and now, it has changed to what it is today.

I had a similiar feeling, when I learned that my OD was communicating with her mother, she wouldn't call home until recently to talk with her brother and sister, but she would talk to her mother after all that her mother did to the family... that one hurt.

It's unfortunately one of the many changes that we are going to have to adapt to as time goes on.

Sometimes it is hard accepting these changes that we are not familiar with. I believe that as we progress through these changes, in time... we will learn to accept them and deal with them on a point by point basis.

It's not easy, but unfortunately it's something we will have to deal with.

I think after you and I and many of us on this board get through this holiday, it will get better over time.

EC...

In my Divorce group at Church... it has been said many times that in order for us to truly heal and move forward, we have to forgive our spouses for what they have done.

Pray for them... that the Lord will fill their spirit, and they themselves will seek the salvation of God. Only then can we truly heal and move forward with our lives.

It appears your doing just that... stay the course, and keep up the good work!

Lostsoul...

I can only give you my perspective on the question that you asked, as I'm sure each persons answer will be somewhat different... but here goes.

For me... my exW will always have a place in my heart. I was married to her for almost 24 yrs.

It was one of the most painful things I have ever gone through in my life. To this day, there has not been a single day that has passed, that I have not had at least a brief thought of her.

For me... feelings for my exW just don't go away over night, if ever.

Thoughts of her will dwindle over time, but I cannot erase all of the history that me and my exW had completely.

Some days are better than others... it is a rollercoaster ride of emotions, make no mistake about it. Even when the "D" was final, the emotions still kept going, they didn't go away.

I coped with it all, and to this day still do... bY giving it over to the Lord.

By doing this, it didn't mean that all of my pain went away, or you will never have another bad day. What it does mean... IMHO, is that it's comforting to know that he is with you and you are not alone... and he will lead you to a better place if you give him the opportunity.

Put your faith in the Lord, and let his blessings come upon you. It won't be easy, but you will get through it.

Petvet, relady, Dave, and RMA...

Hope your day is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/17/02 09:53 PM
Hi All,

Ok, so which one of you were jealous of my 80 degree weather and sent a hale storm my way? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It's been raining so hard, I was stuck in my car watching the hale hit my window. That's the last time I'll do any bragging about my weather. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC

It was probably you since you think I should let the tears fall without my sunglasses <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

There probably will be a great amount of difficulty in talking to your friends without telling them how you really feel Like how can they expect to be happy when their relationship is based on lies and deception, and that they are only 'reaping what they sowed'.

IMHO, I wouldn't offer them any advice except to share scripture about their situation and probably wouldn't care to associate with them. My view is, if it was so easy to lie, deceive their spouses, what would they do to me? I am very careful in my selection of associates.

Maybe that's a little harsh, but real.

Avondale

I know it feels wierd to be left out of the gift exchange. You never know how the Lord may use your daughter to get through to your H. Pray with her before she goes and allow the Holy Spirit to choose her words. God is in the middle of all our situations working them out for our good. We've got to hold on to that, otherwise; we become defeated. Not easy but 'doable'. I think that's a word. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

LS,

Welcome to 'our humble thread' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I can't answer your question, because I have not experienced it that I know of. But someone here can. Collectively we are a powerhouse of information and experience, so you're in good hands <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Davepr

Thank you for your words of encouragement. It will be exciting to see where we are in our lives at this same time next year.

Wallace

I won't be able to wear my sunglasses now that 'El Nino' is on the way. Do you want to borrow them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet, RMA, WGTT, Hope you're all well.

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/18/02 06:11 AM
Hi all:

Relady: As far as the card is concern, it one of those case by case issues. Last year, I gave a card and present mostly because I was still after reconciliation. This year I will give a gift with my son. If I was in your shoes, I would not send anything. I was listening to a tape by the Rev. Frederick K.C. Price from your neck of the woods. The tape is on Wife/Husband/Sex/etc. He spoke about trust and said that if one is truely yolked in his/her faith. One would want to know whether they had a keeper or not, in other words, you would want to know whether you had a good mate or not. If you don't have a good mate, they will either shapeup or shipout because they know that you are a person of faith. You cannot be married to someone you cannot trust. You need to take care of business, so that you can be completely yolked with someone else who wants you. It has been said to me several times and I have heard this from several pastors, many WS's cheating is part of their character. You are lucky that you don't have any kids with your guy.

Avondale: Part of my message to Relady was meant for you as well. You are upset because you want people to feel your pain from what your WH has done to you. I know your hurt. At some point Avondale, you must start to get empowered. You will get there. You have to get to that point at your own pace. You need to start making plans for the holidays.I'M SERIOUS. This way you won't be seating around feeling sorry for yourself. I am making plans to not be a home by myself during the holidays, so I am planing some short trips away just to get away from the house and having the holiday blues. THAT'S EMPOWERMENT.

P.S.- Relady, Stop crying about your wet weather. We on the east coast are freezing our buns off while you guys on the west coast are still walking around in shorts. What's worst is that your wet weather will probably become our ice and snow in a couple of days.

Next, I am on a roll.

EC: With due respect to your friends, give me a f----- break (please forgive my Portugese). These guys' relationship was started under false pretense in the first place, now they wonder why they are having trust issues. PLEASE!

Wallace: Yes, four months later for a birthday gift is beyond belated especially when you are trying to kiss up. Your exw and mil are so sneaky, but so obvious. I am convince that you will handle your relationship with lady buddy well. Lord knows we on this thread have beat you up enough on this issue. What are you getting her for Christmas? No metals or precious commodities
please.

Me: Well, so much for settling my divorce before the end of the year. w's attorney will not even respond to my attorney's request to talk. I guess w does not want to cooperate. To court it will be.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/18/02 04:42 PM
Hi All,

Hope everyone is doing well today.

EC...

I wouldn't concern yourself with your friends "M" problem. As Petvet eluded... "it was conceived under lies and deceit. A relationship buiLt on a foundation of sand (lies, deception), most likely will not stand for very long.

Tell them about MBers and tell them to seek out the Lord. Maybe they can get some insight from some posters here on MBers that have been in the same situation as they are.

I would concentrate on you for now and not concern yourself with their problem.

relady...

You can come over here to Colorado... the "Vacation Capital" of the U.S..

It doesn't do much of anything where we are. No snow, no rain, nothing... that's why were in a drought... just pure sunshine for the most part, day in and day out.

The ski resorts are getting pretty good snow, but that is about it.

I might need those sunglasses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You never know when one of those triggers are going to hit... but I'm holding up pretty good so far. I owe it all to the Lord, for without him... I would be in pretty bad shape right about now.

Go ahead and hang onto them... I have soup though if you need any of that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet...

I bounce back pretty good. I've been beat up a lot worse by my exW with all her antics... all the advice that has been given to me here was all good advice. I never considered that I was being picked on.

Now... on to the good stuff. You can start beating on me now.

What did I get my "lady friend" for Christmas?

"Drum roll please".

I got her in no paticular order the following.

A very petite gold cross necklace. (Go ahead and start beating on me... LOL.)

A brown leather coat and a very warm sweater to go with it, and that is it.

I'm glad to hear that you are marching forward with your Christmas plans. It's good to hear that your taking the steps to insure yourself a nice time.

Don't worry about your marital situation during the holidays. Give yourself a break away from it during the holiday... I'm sure you can use it.

The bad part is, it will probably still be there waiting for you when the New Year starts.

avondale, Dave, RMA...

Hope everything is going well for you today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/19/02 06:45 AM
Hi All,

Whoa <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Somebody get Petvet some heat in his office, he's on brain freeze! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet

Jealously is a terrible thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I spent most of my life on the East coast so now.. " "I can cry if I want to, cry if I want to.....LOL

Thank you for the great advice though, I am very familiar with Dr. Price's ministry. He is an awesome man of God. And my husband and I were definitely unequally yoked. I didn't realize it until after we were married or I overlooked it because I gave in to my emotions.

Since he hasn't actually given me his address, even though I know it. I've decided not to send a card. I don't want to appear to be a 'stalker'!

Wallace,

I don't need soup but I could use a petite cross, and a brown leather coat, forget the sweater though. WOW That's some Christmas present. Know her size already, do ya?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And to all others

Stay away from this thread until Petvet gets heat in his office or it's summertime, whichever comes first!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/18/02 07:16 PM
Petvet ,
"Ouch" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I didn't realize (or mean to) sound whiney. Actually, I feel at least a 50% empowerment level, LOL. And I HAVE done stuff for the holidays - I decorated outside and inside and have done some shopping, wrapped a few things last night, and will finish (hopefully) tomorrow. Don't worry, I won't be sitting around by myself. I'll be with my family (which now consists of my dad), but that will be enough. Thanks for the advice, though!

I'm sorry your D is dragging on and you'll have to carry it into 2003. I know that's not what you wanted at all!

I will ask Santa to stop by Lowes and get you a ceramic heater, item # 3198, which sells for $44.95. I have one; they work well and heat up a room quickly.

Wallace, why do you think we'd want to beat you?!? Unless....oh well, never mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> If that's what you get someone who is your FRIEND then you're setting yourself up for spending thousands if she becomes Mrs. Wallace!

Relady , I had forgotten you didn't "know" his address, so I think you're doing the right thing by not sending the card.

Hope everyone else is doing well!

And all the places y'all have described (west coast, Colorado) sound like wonderful places to visit....I'll be planning a vacation soon, so keep the light on for me!

<small>[ December 18, 2002, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/19/02 10:49 AM
There is so much to do before I leave Fri AM. I am trying to stay calm and just keep working at stuff. My customers have been slow getting me what needed to move their projects along ...... car has to go into the shop so at 6:30 will leave so I am first in line ...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I haven't posted much or read a whole lot on this board & it feels strange. It's likely to be next week when I get settled at my Moms. It's been 70 here & 20's and 30's where I am headed.

Just wanted to throw this out & get input.
I have been looking for good safe used car for D (16) to drive. I have SUV so would drive car as well. For the price range I had in mind, a 96 BMW, IMMACULATE condition, all service done ( I know the owners) brand new top of the line Michelin's just put on. I would love to drive this car & have said before it would be great to have SUV & BMW. BUT, I don't feel entirely comfortable have 16 YO D drive it. It 's a very safe car, but....it has a lot of power .....plus even tho it's the same price (it's a bargain) as much lesser cars I don't want my D thinking she is hot sh** cuz it's a nice car. Any thoughts????

God Bless,

D.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/19/02 12:29 PM
WGTT
Just a few things came to my mind about your D's car which you might want to consider. Of course, you may have already thought of them, too, but just in case...

1) You have other children, so would they expect same scenario for them?
2) What did you do for your oldest child when he/she turned 16? Is this car comparable to that?
3) Isn't the maintance on a BMW somewhat costly? Who would be responsible for that, her or you (or H)?
4) What about the personality of your 16 YO ? Is she pretty grounded? Does she have questionable friends? Are her choices (both in driving and otherwise) good? How mature is she? The answers to these may reflect if she can emotionally "handle" being a hotshot Beamer owner.

On the other hand, maybe it would boost her self-esteem (we know how these family problems we're having affect our kids). And I think it's been documented that as teens, girls are better drivers than guys. (Can't wait to catch the flack from THAT statement, LOL)

Hope you have a great trip to visit your mom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/19/02 01:45 PM
Hi all:

Avondale & Relady: Ouch, ouch, ouch! Boy that hurts. Please no more, I submit. I wave the white flag. Okay, I will invest in a heater. Relady: Yes, I am jealous of your hot weather. Envy is the greatest compliment.Boy, Relady & Avondale, you guys are brutal.

Wallace: Real nice gifts.Can I be your girlfriend? (OK, Avondale & Relady: DON'T GO THERE!!!) Just kidding. Wallace, I'm really kidding. I hope she likes the gifts. I wish I had someone to share holidays. There is only one way
to go: first class. Due to my current unresolved situation, I am doing flowers.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/19/02 04:27 PM
Hi Everyone,

relady...

With all that nice warm weather that you are probably having there, you probably don't need a sweater... LOL.

You paid your dues by living on the "East Coast" like I did... so you are entitled to all the nice weather you can get. Enjoy it while it lasts!

Your probably wondering how I knew my "lady friend's" clothing size. It was real simple... I asked her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I'm not sure if the things I bought her will fit her, but we are going to find out... LOL.

Like avondale, I had forgotten that you didn't know his address. I agree with avondale and I think you made the wise decision by not sending anything (card or otherwise) to him. it will definitely send the wrong message. You don't want him to think that you are pursuing him at all.

WGTT...

avondale had a great set of questions that you should consider before making the plunge to buy your daughter a "beamer".

One thing to consider is the cost of maintaining the car. BMWs are well built cars, but when things start going wrong with them, it can get very expensive. Would you pay for the maintenance?

I have to agree with avondale again... girls are better drivers than boys... when they are in their teens they are better drivers.

But something happens to the girls as time goes on. they get sloppy... they become preoccupied while driving with other things... like their hair, make-up, lipstick etc., and they feel the need to take care of these things while they are driving down the road at... let's say 80mph.

While all these items are being attended to... wham!!! you have an accident then another accident, and the cycle just keeps repeating itself, over and over and over again.

So... in the long run... guys are much better drivers than girls... even though we pay much higher insurance premiums than the girls do... LOL j/k.

Don't flame me now... I was just kidding... I was just trying to throw a little humor in on the day and throw everyone a curve... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

avondale...

I don't think that you want to beat me. From time to time... I do need a good thump on the head though. Just to straighten me back out... LOL.

Mrs. Wallace?

I shudder to even think of such a thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know... I'm starting to like being single again. I didn't think I would... but I am very slowly starting to get back into it again. I have my moments when I wish that I was still married and I think that is only natural... but I know I could never go back to what I just came out of.

If your planning a vacation... we will keep the candles burning for you. It snowed here for about a half hour after saying it hasn't done anything here... the weather is very strange in Colorado... it always been that way since I have been in this town.

Petvet...

You need some bandages? I have soup too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Are you getting into the holiday spirit yet? I know you got the cold winter part of it down... but are you ready to go for Christmas?

I still haven't put up my tree yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

As far as sharing your holidays with someone. In time you will. It can be a double edged sword at times. One moment you pine for what was, and in the next moment you are moving forward with your new life. It's a day to day process that takes some getting use to.

Dave, EC, RMA, and Lostsoul...

I hope you are all having a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ December 19, 2002, 10:34 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/19/02 07:04 PM
Hi All,

I hope you're all making this a wonderful day.

Petvet

I'm all through crying, my sunglasses are back on, even opened my sunroof. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Today, I'm lovin' life. I'm praying I'll get through the holidays in this mindset.

Wallace,

I didn't think you did something obvious such as asking your 'ladyfriend' her size, duh! We all want to be your friend with those gifts! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Just remember you have to continue in the way you start <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WGTT,

I think a BMW may be a bit much for a 16 YO. She may be mature, but can she make the insurance payments and handle the maintenance? Insurance will be quite expensive for her. Nissans are safe cars and the maintenance is very low. When my son was 16 I got a used one for him and it lasted through college. Just a thought.

Avondale,

I think we've been very 'kind' to the guys lately, don't you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> That proves we have the Holiday spirit. LOL

Rma, davepr, ls

Hope all is well.

God bless,
relady
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 12/19/02 10:00 PM
To all,

I am leaving in the morn and won't be back until late Christmas Eve. Wishing you all a wonderful holiday!!!

A couple quick thoughts....Petvet, I'm gonna fight you to be Wallace's girlfriend, haha!! Wallace, you call this SLOWING DOWN???????? Gosh, I'd shudder to think of you going all out!! WGTT, a 16 yo will be a 16 yo, so the BMW or the SUV is a toss-up. Most important to make sure your teen is a safe and cautious driver, no matter what kind of vehicle!

To all travelling, be safe. To those at home, be comfortable. To each of you...'tis the season of love and caring. Know that many, many wonderful people love and care about YOU!

Blessings to all, RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/19/02 10:14 PM
RMA...

I don't know if your still on the boards, but you have a safe trip and have a very "Happy Holiday".

Yes I know, I'm not doing a very good job of slowing down. I'm going to have to have my brakes checked... I think I might need new brake shoes.

Have a Happy Holiday RMA.

God's blessings to you.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/21/02 06:45 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone is having a good day.

relady...

OK... gifts for everyone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You're right though... once you start it, you have to continue it. Where's that darn brake pedal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'm glad you and avondale are in the holiday spirit... no beatings for this week... LOL.

Well I'm taking off early from work today and I'm going to put up my Christmas tree... YAAAAAAAAAAY!!!

I hope everyone has a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 12/21/02 05:38 PM
Hi everyone, we are leaving for my W families house tomorrow, will not be back until Friday.
I wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and
happy holidays. Thanks for all the support you have given to me over the last year.
God Bless,
Dave
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/21/02 11:37 PM
Hey Y'all,
I know some have already gone out of town...guess I'm behind in my Merry Christmas greetings! Just imagine this post is in red & green font with holiday lights all around the edge. Maybe some snow in the background... Too bad we can't do fancy URL things here, I have great graphics.

Petvet , I'm sorry you got "ouchies" from my post, because that is the opposite of what I intended. I was trying to build a bridge but I guess it didn't work. Anyway, totally aside from that, you've been on my mind all day. You doing OK ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/23/02 05:55 AM
Hi all!

For those still on the board before the holidays, I want to wish you'll a Merry Christmas.

Avondale: We are straight. No problem in my camp. What are your plans for Christmas?

Relady: How about you?

Wallace: I can take a wild guess what your plans are?

Me: I am going to try to stay busy; even if I have to go out of town by myself.

Oh! I need to learn how to use those icons. Are there any willing teachers out there?

Later.

Relady: W
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/23/02 11:27 AM
Christmas present for Petvet... (assuming you meant the "graemlins faces"). I will have to do it in two posts because they only allow 8 faces in one post.

The icons are down there underneath and to the left of the first "add reply // preview post" buttons. Just choose one and it will appear as a code in your text. When you preview or post your text, it will appear as a smiley. I suggest using lots of <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> but there may be times when some of the others are more appropriate, such as when someone says something unbelievable, like <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> or <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . Continued next post...
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/23/02 11:31 AM
Then there is the "cool" face <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> which is also used if you want to be secretive. Don't forget the "I'm mad" faces <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> or embarrassed one <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> . If you're sad, you can use <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> or if you're really sad, and crying use <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . If you're teasing someone, use <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Now if you're talking about some other icons, then I'm not sure how to do them here. This bulletin board has some graphic capabilities disabled, probably because there might be some really objectionable ones posted.

Tonight begins the weirdest Christmas of my life--our "family" Christmas dinner with daughter, son-in-law, and dad. Will be really strange just the four of us, without my H or my son. I did finally get an address for my son and was able to UPS him his gifts. I'm still keeping the same meal tradition, though: standing rib roast with all the sides and a chocolate ganache yule log for dessert. Using all the good china and crystal which were handed down to me from my grandmother. Happy Holidays!

<small>[ December 23, 2002, 05:33 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/23/02 03:39 PM
Guess who is still here?

I wanted to say to eveyone... that I hope that this "Holiday" brings you all "Blessings" and "Peace".

Petvet...

LOL... You tell me what you think I have planned... and I will tell you if you are right or not... LOL.

Have you made any definite plans for Christmas, or are you playing it by ear?

I'll be on the boards tomorrow off and on till about 3:00 p.m., and I'll try to check in through out the rest of the week. So if your on... let us know what your up to.

avondale...

I think this is going to be a pretty strange Holiday for us all. I will be having dinner with my son and YD on Christmas eve, less one exW and OD and many others on exW's side of the family.
So it will definitely be quite different.

I will be going to Church with them and my "lady friend" will meet us at Church tomorrow night (Hint, Hint, for Petvet... LOL).

So to all... Petvet, RMA, Dave, avondale, relady, EC, and WGTT, Have a very "Happy Holiday".

Blessings to all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/24/02 06:56 AM
Hi All,

I wish all of you a very happy and blessed Holiday.

Now,
me, me, me, me, me....
No, I'm not warming up to sing a Christmas Carol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

For the last few days, I have been asking the Lord if I was going in the right direction or if I had somehow missed His instructions. I asked Him to give me a sign or a word that I was in His Will.

I also told Him that sometimes I can be a little slow so make it plain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> On the way to church yesterday, I said, " God, this is but a small thing for you and I know you could do it if you wanted to". I could almost hear Him laughing at me.

Well anyway, as soon as I walked into the church, my Pastor told me he had received a card from my H. In it he said he missed everyone and he would hope to see him soon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Now this is the same H that would not return the pastor's call and said he would come to see him and didn't a few months ago.

I just want you all to know that God is Faithful, He will do what He says He will do. Just trust Him, Cry out to Him and I guarantee you He will answer. Prayer works.

On Christmas day, I'm going to Disneyland, (seriously) after all, it is the happiest place on earth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/23/02 08:43 PM
Relady ,
That is exciting news -I am VERY happy for you! It's great when you get a "sign" that you are on the right path and in His will. I think all of us could use those reassurances. Sometimes it's like we're walking in the dark, even though we're in the light, ya know? Have fun at Disneyworld!

Wallace ,
I bet Petvet and I are thinking the same thing about your plans...Relady is probably thinking the same too, LOL. I wonder what your "lady friend" will be giving YOU for Christmas. Let us know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

I had an unsettling thing happen last night. Hubby came by with a gift (not too surprising). However, I was caught off guard because he had a gift for my dad (who he hasn't spoken to since August when my dad let him "have it" for his actions) and my dad's lady friend (who H has only met briefly twice). I was very surprised at those 2 gifts and said something I shouldn't have, but I can't take it back now. I said something along the lines of "this goes to show you how you are not living in the real world, not thinking clearly, and are in a fog". Well, when I said that, H left, a little bit upset because he didn't agree with me. My dad and I think it was a real "stretch of relationship" for him to give them (esp. his lady friend) a gift. Maybe even inappropriate.

Prior to this, Hubby and I have been on good speaking terms and not exchanged any arguments. I am willing and ready to apologize if I should...but I keep thinking "why should I apologize after what HE has done to me?" and also if I apologize, would that make him think his actions are justified by me? What I said was true, I just used bad judgement by saying it. On the other hand, I realize that an apology/forgiveness would be a good example (if he can see it through his fog). Any advice out there?

<small>[ December 23, 2002, 02:44 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/23/02 09:23 PM
Avondale,

If I'm soft on you, the men on this thread will complain <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> So, here goes!

IMHO, Of course an apology is in order whether you feel like it or not. It was a gester that could have been tolerated, thanked for it and move on. Like I've said many times, our emotions have our mouths speaking things we really shouldn't be saying. Maybe that was your Hs way of apologizing for not beening there during the holidays, we never know what God has placed on his heart.

I'm not sure if I've read in any posts if you are interested in reconciliation with your H or not. If you are, have you taken time to renew your mind? And truly given God permission to shine the light in your heart. Don't get me wrong, I feel your pain as well. To have spent the last 5 months reworking my brain to think as close like the Lord as I can. What if He gave us a sarcastic word everytime we went to Him? We would probably stop going. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

One scripture that I have burned into my brain, is Proverbs 31, "She openth her mouth with wisdom and the law of kindness is on her tongue" So, if I ever get the opportunity to speak with my H, he will know I'm not the same person. Renewing your mind in the Lord shows you that they are deceived and your battle is not with 'Flesh and Blood'! We sometimes get mad at the wrong person. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">why should I apologize after what HE has done to me?" and </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because you are stronger than that! Don't let the victim mentality abort what the Lord has planned for you. He saw this day before you did. Apologize and move on!

From me to you with love <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/23/02 09:51 PM
Also, what exactly am I apologizing for? For upsetting him? For not being gracious? For speaking out of turn??
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/23/02 10:43 PM
Hello again everyone,


relady...

You are most definitely on the right path IMHO, and the Lord is most definitely walking with you.

He knows what his plan is for all of us, and we are to follow him, and allow the Holy Spirit to fill our hearts and our minds to do the Lord's will.

Keep praying for your "H"... let it be God's will for your "H" to follow the righteous path.

It is a very encouraging sign that your "H" contacted your Pastor. Hopefully he will follow through and return to God's house... it can only help.

Prayers for you and your "H".

Ummm... I would never get upset with you if you went soft on avondale. If you went soft on me, I might get a little concerned... LOL

avondale...

I agree with relady on this one, and she has given you some good advice. Many times we say things we wish we wouldn't have, only to regret it later. If the opportunity presents itself, I would apologize for what you may have said.

Could it send the wrong message to him by apologizing to him? It may, but I think in the long run you will feel better for having corrected it and show him that you are a better person.

LOL... I'll bet you are all thinking the same thing as far as what my plans are with my "lady friend".
Who knows... I could surprise you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
I wouldn't bet on it though... you are all too smart to be thrown a curve by me.

Stay strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/23/02 10:54 PM
OK
I think I knew it in my heart the entire time, and just needed someone to confirm it. I called H and apologized. Even said more by way of apology than I had intended, but I'm OK with it. He said he knew where I was coming from when I said it (although i doubt that), and we're as good as we can be now...things are back to normal, whatever that is these days. Thanks guys! Glad I don't have that hanging over me during the holidays. I love y'all!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/23/02 11:26 PM
relady...

I hope you have lots of fun at Disneyland.

Yep you're right, "it's the happiest place on earth", it's also one of the most crowded too... especially on Christmas day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I want to go too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Have a good time... I love Disneyland!!!

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/23/02 11:55 PM
Hi again,

Avondale

I knew you knew that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm glad you apologized. Sometimes you just need to hear it from someone else that doesn't always agree with you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace,

Believe me, I'm soft on you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I know what you're going to do on Christmas. You'll give her the engagement ring, oh, oh, I mean brown leather coat, etc., she'll say yes, oh, oh, I mean yes it fits and give you your present and you'll both say goodnight and turn over and go to sleep, oh no, I mean go home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Whatever you do, have a great time. I'll say 'hello' to Mickey and the gang for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet,

Where are you when you have a chance to get back at avondale? Hope you're not frozen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/24/02 06:06 AM
Hi all, I'm here.

Sorry, I can only get on maybe once a day.

Avondale: I understand your frustration. An apology was probably due; however, I would have overdone it. Does your H knows what he is doing? He seems to want to make everybody not be mad at him. Thanks for your icon advice. I am going to have to experiment, so watch out in future communications because icons may show up in weird places. Yes, I share your weird holiday experience because this will be the first time in over nine years I have not spent time with inlaws opening gifts before Christmas. We have to face reality as it is no matter how odd and hurtful it is. Please strive to make you holiday good for you.

Relady: Disneyland? Sounds like a winner to me. That is a good sign that your H made contact with your pastor; however, where does that leave you? That's the one million dollar question. Is he doing this to make his way back into his marriage or what? You need some clarification from above or from your pastor.

Wallace: I should have known you Romeo you. I guess when you are doing things right the opposite sex cannot help but to want to spend time with you.

Me: I stayed up past three in the morning trying to put together my son's new bike for Christmas. I hope I don't miss a screw or something. I would hate for my son to be riding down the street and the wheel separates from the bike.Good thing I purchase a helmet, knee and elbow pads. My attorney filed for a court date late last week. I expect a hurricane to hit when w finds out what I know about her affair. She should receive my response to answers to her interrogotory this week. Well, back to wrapping gifts. I have to do these things while son is asleep. I really do hope I don't mess something up on his bike.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/24/02 04:16 PM
Yikes!!!

Engagement ring??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

NO, NO, NO, NO! Say it isn't so.

Don't hold back relady... tell me how you really feel. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady...

I just about choked on my coffee when I read that... LOL.

Just the mention of anything remotely close to that makes me whirl. I'm still whirling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

There will be no engagement ring involved in this particular gift giving scenario. I don't even see it on the horizon. I'm not moving thaaaaaaat fast. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LOL... I'm still laughing and choking on that one... talk about throwing out a curve ball... strike one for me... I wasn't ready for that one... LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Tell Mickey and the gang I said, "Hi".

Have a great time at Disneyland.

Petvet...

I have faith in you... 3:00 in the morning putting your son's bike together? You are on a mission to get this bike done correctly... huh?

Sounds like the fun is about ready to start up for you come this "New Year". Hang on... it gets pretty wild!

I'm filing contempt papers on Friday against exW, so I'm going to be starting the "New Year" out right as well.

We never had a hurricane in Colorado that I'm aware of, but we have had some tornados. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Anyone else on the same page as relady as far as my game plan... "cough", "cough", "cough"... I'm still choking to death over that one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/24/02 04:34 PM
Petvet ,
I may be old, but when my kids were little it cost $10 to have people at the store assemble the bike and we thought it was money well spent! I hope you don't wear yourself out putting it together. I know your son will have a great memory of his first real bike...and you'll have the headache of staying up late assembling it. Hopefully the headache will turn into a great memory of his face lighting up when he sees the bike, and the bike will hold together.

Wallace ,
I'll slap you on the back so you will stop choking! I'm glad Relady wrote the "E" sentence and not me! But if that thought puts you in a whirl, it's comparable to what we're thinking when you listed your gifts to someone with whom you're "trying to slow down"

It's cold and rainy here today, perfect weather to stay inside and goof off...going to church tonight.
Happy Christmas Eve <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/25/02 06:15 AM
Hi Gang!

Hope all is going well...Merry Christmas!!

Petvet - I guess that will be a real shaker when you expose the affair openly...whew

Relady - Disneyland? Thats great.When I lived in FL I went to Disneyworld it's a lot of fun, even around Christmas time, in fact thats the best time to go between Oct - May, you're not scorching in the sun.

Avondale - Don't worry about what you said to your H, his heart is no where soft like yours where he's hurt, but give it time when OW wounds him, he'll rememer your apology.

Wallace - Buying clothes?? Geez what's next?? You really have this womans nose open Mr Loverboy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ok, on the serious side....Since you are ahead of most here, I want to use you as a relationship question speciment:

Did you know your GF was in love with you before she ever said it aloud to you? if so, what behavior or things would she say or do that you knew or made you wonder that led in that direction? I know its somewhat personal but you could give me some insight.

I ask these questions because I have a female friend that have started calling me daily, I've known her close to 1 year now, but yet the conversations are and been generic. Her and her boyfriend parted 5 months ago when she realized they didn't share the same faith and life concepts. I met him and spoke to him before and we joked around. I felt fine around them both and always told her to tell him hi. I felt comfortable because I knew I wasn't her type so no threat was ever there to him or her, I considered them married done deal, but it fell apart. She currently goes out on dates with other guys, she has high guy ethics and standards. Since she is single again and for me to draw lines, I tell her I'm not interested in a relationship other than friendship and I say I'm still working on me. I told her I don't date at the time and we will probably never go out on a date because my car is not geared for that and I won't meet her anywhere for dinner either....but yet she keeps calling me daily. She calls me at work and home. She calls me most days before I go to work early in the morning 6:30a and during the day at work and before she goes to bed. I'm not saying she's bothering or harrassing me or is not good looking but I have not lived the single life or recovered yet. I've been on my own now for almost 2 years now but its been 2 years of an emotional rollercoaster recovery. I'm just now walking into some great things ahead that a single person would love to do after realizing your WW did you a favor, she did me in but my outcome is going to shine. I now have a nice job, started a business, enrolled in comm college, will be debt free in 2003, buy a house in later 2003, get my dreamcar [corvette] later in the year,..After WW's many A's in 2000-01, I lost so much, I had no job, a bag of clothes and my stero and 4 plates, 4 glass, didn't know where I was going......So as you see I don't want no serious relationship at this time....I know I'm meeting an emotional need in my friend and it's not really fair because I know what they are, not because she told me, but because I studied about emotional needs, on the flip side I'm trying to guard my heart because one of my emotional needs is conversation which is strongly hers.

She said I was a special friend to her than most guys and that she loved me, but said also, there is nothing there about me that she would want to establish any relationship but yet she's calling me several times a day. I just wonder if this is a sign of a woman with a crush or falling in love and in denial, .. I'm not doing anything but being me, our conversations are never about us, just how are you doing stuff, whats new and how was your day. She took a trip and called me before she boarded the plane, asked me to call her on her cell while she's out town. I didn't but she called me. I know its possible to be friends with the opposite sex and nothing is there other than friends just like somebody you work with, you forget about them at the end of the day, but this seems diff with her.

Any thoughts?

Take Care..
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/25/02 06:23 AM
O.K., O.K.,

I'll let the cat out of the bag.

I was saving this for the New Years annoucement, but you have gone ahead and made me quicken the pace even more than I had wanted to.

Are you ready?

I am going to ask her to marry me!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> j/k

I'm still choking to death. it's too bad that it's December... it would of made a good "April Fools" joke.

Hmmmmmm... April Fools joke... LOL

It's not raining here avondale... it's just cold... the sun is out though.

Rainy wheather is good for sleeping too! And don't get the wrong idea, I really mean sleeping... LOL. I love to sleep. I better keep my mouth shut... I feel like I'm just digging myself a bigger hole than I'm already in... LOL

Have a "Merry Christmas"!

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/24/02 08:24 PM
Hi All,

It appears that everyone is having a great day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Petvet,

I'm sure your son will enjoy his bike. I hope you're not one of those fathers that uses a butter knife to tighten the screws like in the old days. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> He's down the street and the wheels are back at the front door! LOL

Anyway, One morning in my prayer time, I wrote down the desires of my heart in no particular order, because I believe that if I delight myself in the Lord, He will give me the desires of my heart. On that list was that my H would contact the Pastor. I don't know what it means as far as I'm concerned yet, but I DO know that God is in it. And all things work together for the good of those that love Him. My pastor will respond to his letter and go from there. If you knew my H, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> that in itself is a miracle. It is a demonstration that my prayers are heard and God is working in his heart.

Wallace,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am going to ask her to marry me!

j/k </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Too bad we don't believe you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And by April, we rrrreeeeaaaallllllly won't believe it's a joke! LOL Have a Wonderful Christmas and be sure to let us know how the jacket fit. he,he,he

EC,

RUN EC, RUN

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She calls me at work and home. She calls me most days before I go to work early in the morning 6:30a and during the day at work and before she goes to bed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would be very afraid. I consider myself a 'somewhat' normal female person <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and I have never called anyone that much <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Not even my H. My question is why don't you see a problem with that?

Avondale

What are we going to do with the men on this thread? Maybe after the new year we shouldn't be so kind and gentle. LOL

Everyone

Have a great and wonderful Holiday, don't eat too much, and by all means take the time to acknowledge the Lord in all that you do. He rewards those that diligently seek Him.

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/24/02 08:27 PM
HI EC,

I'll give you my take on this... I'm sure the "ladies can add more than I can on this... but here goes.

"Did I know if my g/f was in love with me"?

No, I didn't get any real indication that my "lady friend" was in love with me until she came out and told me she was. I suspected that she had some strong feelings for me by certain things that she said and did. Many of the same things that your "lady friend" is doing with you right now.

You are doing the same as I am... communicating and being honest with your "lady friend".

In my case... she appreciates it so much, that she has fallen in love with me.

She indicated that she wasn't planning on falling in love so quickly, but I guess I was meeting so many of her "ENs" and according to her (she says that I'm very attractive as well) she couldn't stop what she was feeling for me.

Caught me by surpise!

So go figure... my exW dumps me, and now I'm like "Prince Charrming" to my new "lady friend".

I have learned a lot since D-day and all of this has happened, and I'm walking with God in my life more than I ever have... so I would like to give all the glory to the Lord for the blessings that he has bestowed on myself as well as my children.

Based on what you have posted... I would say that your "lady friend" has a much keener interest in you, than you think.

I would say that the ball is in your court if you want to pursue it.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

sidenote: My "lady friend" very rarely calls me, she waits for me to call her... and I will tell you all how her new jacket fits when she gets it for X-mas... hehehe... LOL. I can't wait until April... LOL

<small>[ December 24, 2002, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/24/02 09:53 PM
Busy little thread on Christmas Eve <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
OK OK
The guys on this thread evidently have killer charm in person, LOL. Notice Petvet hasn't mentioned his lady friend anymore...wonder if we've scared him into silence about her.

I have entered "I hope Wallace is joking" on April 1, 2003 on my palm pilot.

EC,
You didn't ask for opinions other than Wallace 's about your female friend but I can tell you...someone who is calling you THAT much is really taken with you, big time! I have never called anyone that much, even when I was a starry-eyed teenager. And I do have friends from church who are guys but I don't call them unless it's business. This woman has it for you in a huge way, OR she has a dependency problem of some sort. Either way, she may not even realize it herself. I think you realize it though, or you wouldn't have asked the question in the first place. So now that you know, what are you going to do about it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> As Wallace said, the ball is in your court.

Now my experience is that in a relationship, once a woman knows what (or who) they want, it is easy to go after it (or him). Most women can do that...it goes back to Eve, LOL. Sometimes the guy is the last to know what hit him!

I'm having so much fun here it's helping me through the holidays. Thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ December 24, 2002, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/24/02 10:30 PM
Relady - You asked how come I don't see her calling as a problem? My answer is because our conversations are not abnormal, just generic stuff like I would talk to anybody. She's a phone person she talks to her family and other friends at odd times also, so it's hard to say she has me singled out that early. I hope I answered your question? if not let know. I think she calls as much because I'm on her mind?.....You said you never called your H that much, but is it possible for a woman to do that much calling? You and Avondale be easy on us guys, we're like spring chickens at this stuff, we did our homework and now were contageous.

Wallace - You say she may be keener toward me than I think. That could be true but at the same time she said there's nothing there that would draw her into any relationship with me so I took that as ok, that's great and which means I'm not her type, I felt that gave me even more ammo not to cross any line or bring any romance into the friendship which is better for me. The ball could be in my court but I ain't bouncing it. I don't want to pursue her because I want to have some choices and not be secluded yet to one person, not that I'm some playboy, but when the time comes to date, I need to be free. She could be in denial of her true feelings, but her actions are speaking louder than words.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/25/02 12:42 AM
Please someone, REVIVE me. I must be dreaming or drunk off some serious alcohol. Did my eyes see that Romeo is thinking about taking the big leap into Niagra Falls. Please someone knock me back into reality. My eyes must be in a fog. Tell me I am hallucinating.

EC: All right, now. Please stop trying to play dumb with us. You know darn well she has the HOTS for you. Once again the question is, what are you going to do about it? I think you like the attention. If you like her, tell her, or make it real and tell her your real feeling. Please be upfront with her. I know that it's hard to trust your instincts after you have been brutalized by your ex. To hell with your ex, man there are bigger fish in the sea. Meet those EN's and watch the woman come your way. Many guys don't have a clue as to ENs. Go for it guy! If you honestly like her, go for it. Heck, you are not getting married anytime soon, so what do you have to loose.

Avondale: Watch it now, I saw your previous post. Funny, funny, funny.Huh, huh , huh. I am still in a state of embarassment. I am still legally married, so I just don't know what to do.

WG..: I see no problem with letting your kid have a BMW as long as he or she handles part of the expenses. I don't think a free ride is in order. You do know that car insurance on a Bmer for a kid will be out of this world. Also, insurance companies are very strict on their car policies.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/25/02 03:10 AM
Hi Avondale - I didn't mean to leave you or anyone out on the question, its just that loverboy Wallace is walking on clouds right now he may have more hinsight way up there....As far as asking the ladies for advice on this one, I thought you may go ruff <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ruff <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> take bite out of me like we did Wallace so I feared for my life...J/k LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I just don't know what's there with her if it's strong feelings emotions or dependency? Time will tell. One thing she has said is that since talking to me she feels charged, she said she feels lots of energy from me, she's a christian but I know the power she feels is the power God in my life.

Petvet - You are so funny, you had me crackin up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You said she had the Hots for me, but I can't see it, she says there's nothing there, no physical attraction, etc? What's interesting and bizzare is her personality type is identical to my exw, therefore I know how to relate to her in EN's and everyday living based on her personality type but not on purpose, but at the same time I feel its not fair to her because I feel I have inside information because I studied about my exww how well I would treat and do better for her if we had got back together, when talking to my friend in many ways its like talking to my exw when she was living right and because I learned exww personality type, I knew where I went wrong with exww, but I think my friend is reaping the benefits of that study that was intended for my exww,....When I talk to my friend I have flags that go up that I could not be a peace with for marriage or long term relationship and I purposed I wouldn't get with anybody and try to change them. So that's one reason I try not to cross any line with her, I feel I might get hurt down the road. Example: she made a comment she gets bored in relationships after while, she's been divorced since 1994 no kids, but able, I don't know why she dv'd yet BS or WS or none above? She made mention her exh was married real quick after Dv and had a baby though if he had OW...Another thing is she's a serious conflict avoider, same as exw. As I said we really don't get into us stuff, she knows why I'm dv'd but never talks about me or what happened. So knowing her personality type and EN's may have saved me some heartache most guys go at it blind.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/26/02 01:03 AM
Hey y'all,
8 pm here...I've made it almost through Christmas without even a hint of tears (although I admit I'm feeling a little melacholy)! Trying not to look too far down the road to next Christmas, but I can't help but wonder what will be going on then in my life. My son called today which was wonderful. My daughter called from her in-laws house at the coast and sounded sooooo happy, it made me feel better about encouraging her to go there instead of begging her to stay here and keep me company. I am really curious if H is at home, by himself today also, but I have refrained from going by his apartment to spy, LOL

Petvet , hope the bike worked correctly!
Wallace , did the ring, errrrr...jacket fit?
EC , what are you doing?
How has everyone else fared?
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/26/02 07:07 AM
A belated Merry Christmas to everyone. I havn't had access to the internet in almost a week and that was driving me crazy. It made me realize how much this forum means to me at this stage.

Thanks for all the responses on the BMW. It's still up in the air - it's the same price that we would pay for a Civic.

This was a wierd holiday & I didn't get thru it without tears and frustration. (posted on another thread)

I am exhausted & going to bed, but will be back on tomorrow to catch up.

God Bless,

D.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/26/02 07:38 PM
My brother figured out last night why I hadn't been able to get on the internet. I had the wires plugged into the network connection (we have cable at home) and at my Mom's it's a dail up service so it goes into another spot!!!!

Wallace I almost fell over when I read yourf (joke) post - an egagement ring <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It took a second read thru to get the joke part!

So did she like the gift? That's pretty nice - a leather coat!

relady Disney is great this time of year. One year we went the 26th and a few days between Christmas & New Years but was really crowded. I live in FL as well - it sounds as if you are in So Fl ?

The note from hubby to pastor is a good sign ... God is moving in his life. God is Good. Have you read the book "The power of a praying wife" by Stormie Omaritain (sp?)

Avondale That must feel really good to have heard from S & D. Many have posted here that they were having wierd and strange Christmas 's (mine included) but good things can come from the wierd and the strange! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You posted that you had dinner on the good China handed down to you from your Grandmother. HOw wonderful !!! Mine is sitting in a box and has never been used !!! What am I waiting for????? Maybe that will be part of my new tradition for the Holidays.

Petvet What a man! Putting together your son's bike at 3 am! I had to laugh at your post as well, telling about the bike, then like a commercial what was happening with the DV and boom commercial was over & it's back to Christmas again!

EC It's a learning experience for me to read the posts of all the guys here as there is so much I have to learn about males.

You guys must feel like relationship super heroes practicing the MB principals and having women eat out of the palm of your hands <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> That isn't meant sarcastically, it must be great!

To all the others - I hope that you had a Merry Christmas.

There are some new traditions that I am going to start for the Holidays ...

- Eat on the GOOD china

- Get new decorations for the house - ones that are easier to put up - like the raindeer that already come assembled with lights! I went to a few neighborhoods to look at the lights and come away with some good ideas.

We are going to have a family portrait done this evening .... my sister and brother and thier family plus my Mom. We'll see if WH shows up or not. We will go ahead with out him if he's late.

Christmas in summary for me -

WH only showed up for presents (3 hours late) hibernated till dinner, eat then left. GRRRR However, I am OK now it showed me once again that he is not capable of having a relationship now, not with me or anyone. I've gotta do what 's best for me and kids. (already knew that but this reinforces this once again)

WH gave me pictures of extravagent gifts but that was it. This means just like last year that if I want them, I have to pay for them. WH also gave us tickets to the $280,000 jackpot lottery. Didn't win so it's back to work! That means more anyway.

Saturday, I am going to the MB get together in the Northeast. I am excited to meet other MBer's and especially 2 other ladies that have alcoholic stbeXH's.

YS wants to go sledding sooooo I'm about to brave the cold. I have been cooped up and need to exercise! YS can't believe that I have been sleeping past 9am as I usually get up at 5:30 or so.

God Bless,

D. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/26/02 08:51 PM
Hi all,

I hope everyone had a 'as well as can be expected' Holiday. One down, one to go and we're home free almost. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Disneyland was packed as I knew it would be. We never made it across to the Adventure Park. By 8:00PM, I felt like my legs would fall off. The weather was good.

I didn't get emotional until I got home and realized that my H never even left a message to say Merry Christmas. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I guess some things still leave me with a question mark. You would do that for the least of your friends. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Wallace,

Don't keep us in suspense, and have us panting at the computer screen waiting for your report. Or is Christmas still going on with you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

I'm glad you had a good Holiday and that you heard from you S & D. I hope you resisted the urge to spy. LOL

WGTT

I live in S. California. We have Disneyland, you have Disney World. And it's the same. CROWDED I have read, "The power of a praying wife" and the book that really helped me to become closer to the Lord and find His peace for my life was, "Finding peace in your heart" by Stormie as well. It's excellent! I have completed devoured it.

Petvet

Yeah, you're in reality, but we think he's trying to throw us off the trail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Did your son's bike hold together through Christmas? Was he pleased?

I hope everyone else had a great Holiday.

relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/26/02 09:47 PM
Hi Gang!

Hope everyone had a great Christmas!!

I went over Aunts house as usual with a house full of family...This spring we're going to have a seafood & chicken dinner gathering with group games, a 1st, 2nd ,3rd place prize talentshow and other prize events...The younger kids and relatives don't know the self fun and entertainment we had growing up so we're going to show them how to have some fun with each other, lots of kids today sit at home under there parents in the house waiting to be entertained despite all the technology, so they're going to get a dose of what family fun is all about. I'm going to try to get OD/YD here for that.

WGTT - Glad to see you making some progress and finding whats meaningful in life. Thanks once again for willing to deliver a message for me in FL. The small things can mean a lot, establishing a tradition can be a good thing. My kids I'm sure miss the , wrapping gifts,warm cider and popcorn and movie days on Christmas Eve, like Scrooge, Miracle on 39th St or those older 1940-50 B/W Christmas movies then the Big Family breakfast on Christmas morning and opening gifts. Those are the things I hold with me that exw pitched. When we moved to Florida we changed it a little and went to Disneyworld on Christmas just to do something out of ordinary, however in the midwest the winters are cold, staying by the fireplace is the place to be. As far as how the women respond to us guys that did our homework, I consider her a friend nothing more, I hope she continues to go out on dates and finds mr right. She mentions the dates she goes out on but I have never asked her out on one, so far now I want to keep it that way. Wallace started this so we'll blame him..

Avondale - You asked what am I doing? I don't know as you can tell, just trying to stay out of trouble. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Me: I ran the idea of visiting OD/YD in Jacksonville, FL by a close friend of mine who knows what's happened in the whole ordeal of A's and DV between me and exww. He said despite my heart was willing to go in all love and peace, he said as a friend he would have to stop me for the sake of getting wounded all over again. He felt despite I was going to visit my kids exw would somehow try to get me in conflict with OM that invaded my home because thats been her goal, my friend said he wouldn't be surprized if exw had brought OM to my hotel room to cause trouble. I ran it by my sister she said the same thing, stay away, because last time I was wounded by OM it set me back 8 months of emotional pain and scars. They said I've come to far to be taken backwards. So OD/YD will have to come here.

Take Care..
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/26/02 10:10 PM
WGTT -I think it's neat you're going to the northeast MB get together...I was considering going to the one in Nashville but to be honest, I haven't regularly corresponded with anyone else going to it. So I decided not to. I tend to stick mainly to this thread and then just post here and there sporadically. Give us a report on how it goes, though! Someday maybe all of us on this thread will have occasion to meet, who knows?

Relady - Sorry your H didn't even call. Maybe he feels guilty? That first phone call has got to make him feel awkward, maybe he just wouldn't know what to say. Try to not let it get to you (I know you're past it already!). Time will tell what his note to your pastor meant. We'll wait with you. And no, I didn't spy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC - I had forgotten about the OM and his "history" of going after you with your exwife's encouragement. As soon as I read your post, I realized you were doing the right thing by not going. Don't set yourself up for more trouble, emotionally and possibly otherwise. See what opens up with your D's coming to see you. Do you have lots of snow??
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/27/02 12:45 PM
Hi all! I hope everyone had a great Christmas.

Avondale: See, you made it through Christmas without pulling your hair out. You cannot afford to worry about your WH; you also cannot afford to wait on him either. Let him catch up to you if he wants and/or if you want him.

Relady: Same goes for you. Don't wait on your deserter H. You cannot afford to wait.

EC: I would ask alot of questions of your model. There is nothing wrong with being intuitive with someone who may be your main sidekick. It's better to be judgemental now than have to go through problems later. You know what you want, so someone has to meet your standards.

Wallace: Oh where are you? It's time to separate from her now. It's been two days. It's time to come up for air.

Me: Update, ALERT! ALERT! ALERT! Kid was riding the bike. I said to him "stop the bike", he said I am trying to stop the bike, I said press the brakes, he responded I am pressing the brakes. As I sprinted across the parking lot, I thought to myself, boy that extra $10 for assembly sure does look good now. Well, being the genius that I am (Huh Huh, how about Dodo bird) I visited the ToysRUs to inspect a similar bike on display. I think I got it now.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/27/02 04:37 PM
Petvet,
I have to tell you, as I read your bike story, I started laughing so much <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just what we all had feared! I'm glad your son wasn't hurt! So in retrospect, would you pay the $10 next time?
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/28/02 06:41 AM
Hey all,

Petvet

That is so funny. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I couldn't stop laughing, glad your son wasn't hurt. Didn't I tell you not to use a butter knife to tighten the screws. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't wait on your deserter H. You cannot afford to wait </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I can't afford is to become impatient. I believe when it is time to move on, God will let me know. 'God does not end the story without bringing back the Glory', wherever or whoever He has for me will be there when this is over.

For most of my life I've been a driven person, this has humbled me and given me patience and endurance. I've learned never to be in a hurry to get out of situations and to make sure I learn my lesson never to be repeated again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace,

ALLY, ALLY IN FREE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

How are you? Have you talked with your H since you apologized?

God Bless,
relady

<small>[ December 27, 2002, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/28/02 12:45 PM
Relady: Please don't get me wrong. I am not saying that you should rush into anything; however, I mean that you need to take control of your situation and be proactive. There is a difference. I don't even mean getting involve with someone else; I just mean that I would hate for you to just be seating around waiting for your H to come back.

Avondale: Yeah, I may have gotten it assemble, BUT I am determine to see this through. OK, I accept defeat.

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/29/02 06:24 AM
Hi All,

Hope you're all having a great weekend.

Petvet,

First let me say thank you for your concern, I am honored, however; I'm not sure I understand! I'm getting closer to the Lord, I'm traveling, entertaining friends, running my own business, having a great time for a change. How would that be considered waiting, short of getting a divorce, or finding someone else? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I mean that you need to take control of your situation and be proactive </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No way do I want control of this situation, remember I had control and it was messed up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I relinquished all control and I won't be taking it back! LOL

If God's plan is that he comes back, fine, if not; God still has my best interest at heart and His plans towards me are "good". I am so content and at peace that this situation feels normal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I hope you can see where I'm coming from. Believe me when I say, it is well with me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/30/02 03:27 AM
Hey everyone,
Getting ready for the work week again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> At least I have Wednesday off!

Wallace, we haven't seen you since Christmas Eve...have we scared you off? I HOPE NOT! Did she like the coat? Anything more to add about this subject? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC, did you hear from your girls last week any?

Petvet, is the bike working correctly now?

WGTT, give us your take about the Northeast MB meeting. I've read the posts on that thread. And are you any closer to filing? I know it's on your mind...and as for telling the kids, my H and I sat down together and told ours. I was lucky; H said everything we agreed upon for him to say (his A, his fault not mine, etc.). I know most people don't have it "that easy" as I did.

Relady , I would love to send you an email, I have a personal question for you. If you're agreeable, please let me know by sending a letter to the address I just deleted here. If not, that's OK too.

I haven't talked to my H since I apologized. However, he did send me an email acknowledging he knew how difficult it was for me to call and say I'm sorry. He reiterated he's "not in a fog", of course. Doesn't matter, I know I did the right thing.

What are everyone's New Year's Eve plans?

<small>[ December 30, 2002, 04:55 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/30/02 03:43 AM
Hello!

Wallace !!! Did you elope? HEE HEE

Avaondale I really enjoyed the MB lunch in NYC. The restaurant was really crowed and most of us were there on time, just didn't know it! The result was that we sat at 2 different tables.
The only thing that could have been better was that we were all able to sit together.

There was an instant bond with one another even though we had never met in person. It turned out LI was just in front of me and when he asked about the Steve Harley group, we looked at each other & gave each other a spontaneous hug.

I have pics that I downloaded on the laptop now I just have to firgure out how to post them. We are going to post the pics without names at first to see if anyone can figure out who we are.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/30/02 03:50 AM
Yikes, I hit post before I was done. Oh well, and now for the rest of the story ....

NYC Get together - 3 of us ladies had our kids there which was nice, but we didn't get into some of the nitty gritty that the other table did. Kily's boy was sooo cute!

readay You sound very grounded in your faith. I can't imagine going through all of this without the help of the Lord.

EC So what are these group games that you play? Kids for the most part don't know what real fun is!

Petvet That is too funny about the bike. I am glad that he was OK.

D.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/30/02 06:01 AM
Relady: My misunderstanding. I stand corrected. I am a little confused. You said that you had been in control and that did not work or something like that. Please elaborate. You seem to be liberated or something. You sound like this is a freedom for you. Did you feel confined in your marriage? Do you feel that your H held you back? If you don't mine me asking, what type of business do you own?

Avondale: You appear to be holding up well. What are you doing for New Year's Eve?

Wallace: Where are you? You got me worried now.

Me: After all the work on the bike, kid does not want to ride the bike now. I think I may have scared him. DARN!

WGTT: Was the MB beneficial to you? Were people open to suggestions to improve their situations.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/30/02 05:02 PM
Hello Everyone,

Petvet - I really don't have any model or standard I'm looking for of a sidekick, a mate yes, but I see a lot of the same things in her as I see in my exw. I talked to my friend this weekend and she told me why her and her BF of 1 1/2 yrs, known for 3 yrs broke up and she said it was because it was all an illusion, meaning she said they had no foundation [Christ] BF has his own faith. She said she knew if they ever got married and the first problem came they would have crumbled and DV'd under pressure because she said the relationship was built on the bases of an outward image only [the flesh] she said he looked nice, smelled nice everything she wanted outwardly but he was empty and void inwardly. When it came to reality sitting face to face, eye to eye resolving conflict she said it became a joke, so she ended it. I was surprized when she told me that because when I first met them as a couple she introduced me to him she was so proud and said this is so and so and he's the CEO of so and so company, also her partner in this venture and that...They appeared to be this strong couple, so I thought. She's a friend nothing more I hope she becomes like a sister.

Avondale - We don't have any snow here yet, it's been bouncing all around us though some weeks cold some weeks warm so I'm happy. YD called me on Christmas I wasn't home she left a message merry christmas I love you and said she was going to call me the next day, but I haven't heard from her yet. I'm going to contact her again, all I have is a yahoo phone number, I'll leave a message and exw passes it to them days later. I need to talk with them so I can tell them I have a PC for them and need an address to mail it to. I called them before Christmas and told them merry christmas just in case there was a delay in the message getting to them.

WGTT - The games we will play is charades the [sounds like, guess who you are] game, simon says, red light, green light seeing all the adults running across the room will be hilarious, hang man, trivia, musical chairs...So this will be a lot of fun..

Me: I spoke to a friend that knew me and my exw well she calls every now and then. I told her my goal is to walk in forgiveness since I'm at that stage now and I want to be loosed from what exw did and leave it all in 2002 less in 2003, I'm just tired of it and want free. I told her I'm still healing and it's getting better. She made a comment that was neat she said 'Don't live your life AGAIN trying to gain approval to do what you know makes you happy and what the Lord has shown you to do, spend money on yourself, prior you always neglected yourself making others happy at the sametime waiting for others to promote you when you knew exactly how and what to do'. I was so taken back when she said that because, in this recovery process being a BS, manipulated and controlled and when your WS said everthing they don't like about you to the core of your personality it puts you in a mind frame to seek approval because you're now the bad guy ...Anyway that was good what she said.

I was informed by the court a court date will be in the mail in the next 2 weeks for the CS modification. Last month I spoke to exw I told her sherriff couldn't find her, I told her I didn't need her to proceed after she got hostile. I found out friday she contacted the courts and filed her papers one month later, lucky her...I was just about finished. I have a certified letter she sent to me, I haven't picked it yet from the postoffice, I'm sure that's what its about,I'm sure she made some effort because she's going into debt monthly over this getting money that don't belong to her...I can now move forward on this issue and start putting it behind me.

Take Care.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/31/02 06:09 AM
Guess who is back?

Hi Everyone... I see everyone has been busy, and this thread has been pretty busy as well.

I hope everyone had a very nice Christmas, and I would like to be the first to say that I am looking for a much better year ahead (New Years), and I hope that all of "us" have peace and harmony come this new year.

I went on a brief hiatus from my computer... I had plenty to do. I did get caught up on all the posts... I couldn't help but laugh with the bike Petvet... that was good.

Well my Christmas was pretty interesting. My OD came over X-mas morning and we and my OS and YD all opened gifts. It was somewhat awkward at first without the exW being there... but we got through it better than expected.

My OD has some interesting tidbits that she told me during this time.

My exW it seems told my OD that she wanted my OD to come over and visit with her and her new boyfriend at their new apartment. Of course... My OD told her that she would have no part of her or him. ExW told my OD that she has been seeing the OM for four years... so he is not quite so new... and it does explain a lot about why my exW was doing the things she was.

"SHE IS A REAL PIECE OF WORK"... I had to vent that. She is really getting on my nerves with all the CS issues and such.

She also told my OD that they were... are you ready for this... "drum roll please"...

"GETTING MARRIED"!

I guess the April Fool's joke will be on them... hehehe.

Well... my Christmas was pretty good. My "lady friend" gave me some new shirts and pants as well as a book you all may be familiar with... "His Needs, Her Needs". She knows about "MBers too.

Her new leather jacket fit very well on her, as well as the gold cross necklace... it was very tasteful. No wedding band though... LOL.

Kids all had a good Christmas... for that I'm glad.

So I have a lot of things getting ready to take off for thew new year... and I will fill you in on it as it gets rolling... marriage is not one of them though... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I hope everyone is having a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/30/02 07:19 PM
Hi All,

Well this year is almost over and "goodbye and good riddance". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Petvet

What I meant by giving up control, was that I have turned control of the situation over to the Lord, and hopefully never to be taken over again.

I guess in a sense I am "liberated", most of the things I enjoyed doing my H wasn't interested so I either had to drag him kicking and screaming or stop doing most of them. I don't feel he held me back, I held myself back wanting to always be there for him, staring in his face, always asking what was wrong, do you want this, do you want that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I didn't realize how bad it was until he wasn't there and I had all this free time on my hands! LOL

My business for the last 15 or more years has been real estate.

I hope I have cleared things up for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale

I'm advising you not to snoop and I couldn't resist looking at the cell phone bill. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> He's still at it with the 'Yahoo Girls'. Can't do that again, too painful.

I'll email you my address as soon as I'm finished, no problem.

Your H wouldn't admit to being in a 'fog', because he doesn't know it! It's all part of being deceived. Read Proverbs 20 - 35, it's a warning against adultery, and it states that the person committing adultery "lacketh understanding, or sense in some translations".

WGTT

I haven't always been this grounded in my faith, the Lord has a way of getting your attention. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
We seem to forget at times that the empty space in our heart we're trying to fill with people, and things is reserved for Him only.

EC

I'm sure it was great hearing from your YD during the Holiday.

I understand what you're feeling, I'm not sure it all goes away because the new year changes. The only thing we can control is our thoughts. The battle is won or lost in our minds. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Sometimes I wish I could turn myself upside down and empty my head clean and start all over again. Since I can't do that, I just have to continue to renew my mind with the Word.

Wallace,

SHE BOUGHT YOU PANTS? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Too bad the jacket fit.LOL

Glad to know you heard from your OD and that she wants no part of your XW boyfriend! That shows maturity. How is it going with her and her boyfriend? Is she sick of him yet?

Davepr, RMA, everyone else

Hope you had a great Holiday, and report soon.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/30/02 11:23 PM
EC - As you know, all state divorce laws are different. Once the "court date is in the mail in 2 weeks", what does that mean for you? Will you be able to finalize the fact that you overpaid CS and will get a refund? I know you want all this behind you, and I hope you hear from your daughters real soon. They'll be blown away by your gift!

Petvet - I would let the bike slide for a little while...but at some point, maybe in the spring, borrow a bike for yourself (if you don't have one) and the two of you do some father/son biking around the parks in that area. Pack a picnic or take snacks, that will make it more fun too; it would be a great adventure for you to share. I have two options for New Year's Eve...one is to go to a fun night at church, the other is to stay home and "nest" by watching a video or something. I know I'll probably be too tired to stay up til midnight. But I'm not sure what I want to do. What are your plans?

Relady - Thanks for the mail exchange. Now your name makes PERFECT sense. Couldn't figure it out - wondered if you were a lady, again. RE = real estate.. Duh! You do need to follow your own advice - don't snoop, it only brings heartache.

Wallace - I am as surprised as Relady about the pants! Gee, maybe they do things different west of the Mississippi...but over here, in the genteel south, we only give clothing, especially pants, to members of the opposite sex who we are VERY, VERY familiar with. It's great that your OD came over for the gift exchange. Hopefully that's a good sign about your relationship with her. How are things with her living situation?

Dave, RMA , are y'all AWOL??? How were the holidays? I hope no news is good news!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/30/02 11:27 PM
Hi Wallace - Geez I guess she's all into ya bud, Pants and shirts for gifts and a book? I guess the next step for you is a little celery and carrots and you're in the oven, hey she knows how to prepare you.

Remember what I said, if a woman buys you clothes she must thinks you'll look nice in them, she knows what she doing, her eyes are on you, even if the pants are black and flooding and wearing white socks, where them anyway if you look bad she'll see it, but still keep your taste.

Relady - Hope all is going well for you. Renewing the mind is a vital key to recovery, I've gone forward then sometimes backwards. It's amazing I look back where I was in late 2000 to think how far I've come since then was the greatest Christmas gifts I could have ever gotten, I had to stop and reflect back and I just begin to thank the Lord for all that he's done. Adversity is the wind that swirls behind you and pushes into you destiny and blessings, just keep walking it gets rough sometime but the Lord is bringing you into something far above what you could ever imagine.

Ps 66

10 For thou, O God, hast proved us: thou hast tried us, as silver is tried. 11 Thou broughtest us into the net; thou laidst affliction upon our loins. 12 Thou hast caused men to ride over our heads; we went through fire and through water: but thou broughtest us out into a wealthy place.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/30/02 11:38 PM
Hi Avondale - Caught you in crossing, having a court date, yes, that will mean things will be final, the DV was final in May 2002. This court date will show I overpaid, I'm sure what they'll do is probably either stop CS early and let it all balance out rather than have her pay it all back so I'm not going to get my hopes up for any money in return. The amount by then should be about $5,000 overpaid.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 12/31/02 01:12 AM
Hi everyone, sounds like everyone had a good Christmas. I am still off work, 2 week plant closing for the holidays, it has been nice to spend this time with W and kids. Not too much new here, had a good Christmas but it was a major trigger for me as I spent last year with just kids, next year will be better.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/31/02 11:56 AM
Hi all!

EC: I am happy that you may be able to put your situation behind you. I hope the court will grant you a refund; it's only fair. It's good to have a friend who you can relate to regardless of gender. You are better able to gauge the relationship better than anyone. Take it whereever it will go as long as that's what the both of you want.

Wallace: I'm not surprise. I guess that this means that she was cheating on the other guy as well, right? I applaud your OD actions.

Avondale: I am going to the Big Easy to celebrate the Sugar Bowl with the Bulldogs tonight and tommorrow. I have received numerous jokes about the $10 for assembly compared to all the trouble I have gone through with the bike.

Relady: I understand. You appear to be handling things much better than I did about a year ago. I wish you well on your journey because it is a long road we all have to travel going through this mess in our lives.

I wish everyone a Happy New Year. Go Dogs!

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/31/02 07:10 PM
Hi All,

Well I had a nice long post to everyone and the "MBers Gremlins" wiped it out. So I'll give you the short version.

Petvet...

Going to the Sugar Bowl? Go Dogs!

Your right exW was cheating on both of us... So does that mean if she marries him and I go out and have an "A" with her... will I be the OM?

Ugh!!! I must be losing it, spare me the thought... LOL.

Dave...

Sorry to hear about your major trigger going off on you... next year will be better, just keep up the good work and it will be.

relady and avondale...

I'm glad that I'm talking with my OD now. My "lady friend" and my YD played a big part in getting us together for X-mas. Had it not been for them... my stubborn self would still not be speaking to my OD.

My OD says that her and her b/f are doing fine, and they are getting along well. They are still in the early stages though... so we will see how it all pans out.

I think the only reason why my "lady friend" bought me pants for X-mas was because she was tired of seeing me run around in my Scottish kilts... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Pant size came courtesy of my YD telling her my size. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

EC...

I think you are right on the money. She is dressing me up to what she thinks I will look good in. I think the oven is on broil... j/k.

I believe that you have the right idea about your CS issue. They will probably just credit your account and change the difference somewhere along the lines of any future payments.

WGTT...

How was your MBers trip? Did you go to N.Y. City?

RMA...

Was Santa good to you this year? When you get a chance... let us know how your doing.

Hope I didn't forget anyone.

Have a safe and "Happy New Year"!

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 01/01/03 01:45 PM
To All,

Happy New Year!!! Good morning, friends. I have not been on the computer very much during the holidays. I am resolving to not be on the computer daily, and so far have done that. There is only so much time per day, and I am shifting towards other things - more time with guy friend and exercising. I have let myself "go" in a sense. 4 years ago, I was in tiptop shape - having just attained my second degree black belt. The revelation of the affair and the eventual divorce left me emotionally and physically listless, and I 100% stopped all exercise. I have lost most of my muscle strength. I am not fat, just out of shape for me. One of my resolutions is to get back into better shape by doing some form of exercising on a regular basis. My fav is walking, so I have begun to treadmill almost every day. Something has to give, so it is my computer time. I hope4 you can understand. I am not giving this up, but will not be here as much at all.

This thread has been great. It has been as helpful to me as it has been to each of you. I have grown and strengthened myself as I have had to dig within myself to offer some compassion and "pearls of wisdom" to each of you. What I love most about this thread is the evolution of each person who has posted here. Many have come on board and the thread has evolved from Petvet and me with the occasional odd posting from others, to a close-knit group of friends who have shared their daily ups and downs. What a blessing we have each been to one another!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Gosh, I love all of you guys! You know, hope does ENDURE. No matter where you are in life, you know that troubles will come and go. Hard to even think about that when things are going really well....we expect the good times to go on forever, don't we??? Even harder to remember that when the bad times are upon us. We seem to become engulfed by our lowest and darkest times. But like all. things in life, there is a season and a cycle.....we do not live static lives. We change and our circumstances change. Life is about change.

You guys have shown the courage to stand up and face the changes.....changes you didn't even want. You are enduring and are adapting. You all inspire me!!!! You are the kind of people I am proud to have as friends!!!

I am not leaving, just sitting back and focusing on some other things. See, I am ever-changing myself! I will continue to check in on you periodically, but not daily. If I have something to add, I'll post it. You are all in good hands....you have your faith to sustain and guide you and each other to help with those little "reality checks" we all need.

Keep the faith, friends. After all, our faith is really the engine that fuels everything else! Wishes for health and happiness to each of you for 2003!!!!!

RMA
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/02/03 12:11 AM
Happy 2003 everyone!

I pray this year brings blessings to all of us. This week will be the 6 month mark for my separation. Here in NC there is a year's wait before one can file for Divorce. Only God knows what is in store for me in the summer of 2003. My only actions have been reactions to what H does. He has indicated he wants divorce; we'll have to see. I know a lot can happen in six months, one way or the other. I never, in my WILDEST dreams, thought I'd be walking the path I am right now.

RMA, I am going to miss you. You were one of the original people who replied to Petvet's post and stayed with it, providing wisdom all along the way. Good for you for changing your priorities!

Catch y'all later...
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/02/03 12:52 AM
Hi Gang! Happy New Years!

Hey my YD just called and was so excited to talk to me, it was great, OD was sleep so I didn't get to talk to her.

YD told me something that just floored me, she said she's going to try to test out of HS early in her SR year this fall 2003, she's a JR right now. She said she wants to come live with me!!, I was like what?? Did I hear you correctly?..I said studdering in shock, I said " Well things will be different and much better for you here than it is there. I said I'll make sure you have the things you need and you won't have to face all the financial struggle you've seen in the past 2 years as you seen there" She said, yes, I know....

I am so excited, I was shaken when I got off the phone.....

What this means to me is YD been meditating and planning how she can get here with me at the right time, she said, "I'll be so glad when I get out this highschool", she just started about a month ago. At the end of her JR year she will only have 2 credits to obtain. She's ready to get on with her career as a baby DR. She wants to attend a community college work program while still in HS, I said ok I'll look around here also. She don't plan attending HS in SR yr 2nd semister, she wants out. It may happen before fall who knows, something is happening in her heart and she's seeing something in living with exw. She's ready to get out of that house. To me It sounded like she has lost respect for exw based on these sounds in her voice she was making when talking about certain things...I was like wow!

I told her about the PC she was excited. I asked her about what address to send it to she gave me there address, I said asked your mom first but she didn't. I told YD about the family get together spring break, she sounded interested we'll see on that.

We had a funny moment, we were talking and she said she got me a gift and also one for her BF, I said what are you doing with a BF? She responded laughing, Dad I'm 17 going on 18 come on, I said oh that's right smiling...WW put me out of her life when she just turned 15 I haven't caught up yet with her maturity and age, but she says she's focused and nothing serious with BF.

Exw in background said Merry Christmas, Happy New Year to me, I was surprized.

Anyway I was happy to talk to YD, I hope OD will start coming around eventhough they're 1,200 miles away.

Take Care
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/02/03 05:37 PM
Happy 2003 All,

RMA

I'm sorry to see you go, however; I'm sure you'll be checking in on us periodically to make sure we're on the right track. Life and things do change. After you have dealt with the 'necessity laid at your feet', it's time to move on. Made God Bless you richly.

Avondale

It will be six months for me next week as well. There is no waiting period here to get a divorce, however; after filing there is a 6 month waiting period before it becomes final. For someone who threatened divorce most of our married life, I thought my H would have filed by now!.

I hope you had a wonderful New Years.

EC

I'm glad to hear the good news about your YD, and like I've said, she will be the one to pave the way for your OD. Pretty soon they will both want the better life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Me

I had a wonderful New Years Eve. I cried some, not very much. I decided to leave all the thoughts and pain of 2002 where it belongs, in the past. I will no longer allow myself to think about what should've been, what may be, what could've been, and to stay in the present only. And if my H doesn't see the value in me, I thank God that I see it in myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

While writing my business plan for the year. I purposed that when all this is over, I will buy myself a convertible, let my hair blown in the wind while I forget. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Wallace, Petvet, Davepr, WGTT

I hope you're all well.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/02/03 07:08 PM
Hi All,

A belated "Happy New Years" to each and everyone of you and all the people on "MBers".

Let's all pray for a better year than last year... it has to get better.

avondale...

I have to agree with you... I don't think that any of us could ever in our wildest dreams believe that we could find ourselves in the position we are in. It is hard to believe... unfortunately it is a circumstance that we all have been placed in and we must deal with all the wonderfulness that surrounds us.

I for one believe that God has placed us in this for a reason... to become closer to him.

I for one, will try my hardest to follow the path he so chooses.

avondale, you are in a wait a see postion... you can only react to what is presented to you at any given time.

If your "H" doesn't follow through with the "D" and just lets it lay there in the position it is now... what do you think you will do?

You have handled yourself so well, I'm sure you have some ideas on what you may or may not want to do... and your right... a lot of things can change in 6 months... my whole life did.

EC...

That is wonderful news concerning your YD. I'll bet you were just about breathless when you heard that news.

I had a good chuckle about your YD dating. They grow up so fast... mine is almost 17 years old, and I still feel like she is 12. I still have a hard time sometimes with her dating... it's hard to believe that your little girls grow up so quickly... Oh how time flies!

I hope your YD gets the opportunity to move in with you... I know you would make things nice for her.

RMA...

I'm glad and sad all at the same time. Glad that your able to move forward in life with all it has to offer, and sad that I won't be seeing your words of wisdom that helped us all on a regular basis.

You are one of the "Wise Ones" that will be missed on these boards. Thank you for being here, your presence will be missed.

relady...

We cross posted, and I wanted to let you know, that you come so far in your journey with the Lord. Don't dwell in the past (as hard as it is), for it will only hold you back, and not allow you to grow.

The Lord knows your pain, and it is not his will, to see his children suffer. Keep your faith as strong as it is, and he will reward you for your faithfullness.

Petvet, Dave, and WGTT, I hope everything is well.

Blessings to all and have a great day!

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ January 02, 2003, 03:34 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/02/03 09:54 PM
Well, now that this thread has been spoken of so highly and advertised so well on the 2002 Post Awards thread, I wonder if anyone else will join in? Will this group lose some of its rapport if it gets too diluted? Hmm....we'll have to see!

EC - that is GREAT, absolutely GREAT, about your YD calling. I know you will encourage her to finish school early so she can be with you. My daughter did, and went to college early too. Tell her it will look great on her school transcript and job resumes! Has she considered summer school for extra credits, to get out even earlier?? You could find out about some of the community colleges where you are, and email her their websites. (You could mail her actual brochures but they might get "lost" before they get into her hands <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). Anyway, I know you're on Cloud 9, and we're all so happy for you. A glimmer of hope on your horizon!

Petvet - I hope you read the 2002 Post Awards thread. You're mentioned there, ya know. You're famous! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And I know you're on Cloud 9 too, since your beloved "dawgs" won the Sugar Bowl yesterday. Hope you had a good trip to see it.

Wallace - you're right, last year was so bad for all of us, so 2003 has GOT to be better! You know I had asked about those "divorce support groups" a while back. Well, I got some info on one and to be honest, right now I don't feel at peace about going. I'm not sure if it's because I'm technically not divorced, or what, but I have to do what seems right and sometimes God gives unrest as a direction marker. So I'll just use y'all as my support group, LOL.

WGTT - whatever happened about insurance for your camera? I was sorry to hear it was lost, and I'm looking forward to the Photo Album being updated. I imagine what everyone at MB looks like and I wonder if I'm half right, LOL

Relady - Thanks for the correspondence, I sent one back to you.

Dave - I guess the first year is the "trigger year", huh? So hopefully at Christmastime 2003, you will look back and see how much better things have progressed and be able to really enjoy it. I've been thinking about "triggers" and may post something about that subject later. It may be too difficult for people to reply to, I'm not sure.

If I missed anyone, I apologize! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/03/03 05:59 AM
Hi all!

RMA: I'm sad to see you go "Buddy". I know you are not leaving the post but just fading to back. I owe you alot. You were there for me in my darkest hours. My emotions back then were up and down, and you took me by the hand literally and pulled me though. You gave me the confidence I needed to get to the point where I am today. I hope how you influence my life will insure you entry through the "Golden Gates". I hope things are going well with your friend. You appear to be happy, and you deserve it.

Wallace: You are heading in the right direction. You may have found you a gem.

Avondale: Yes, it has been six months for you and eventually that will lead to nine months, etc. Over time, you will get stronger and stronger. I know the holidays were tough, but you made it through in one piece. Looking back, I bet it turned out better than you thought. Take care of yourself and strength will follow. Also, Relady is a good role model. She appears to have her act together and is cooking on all cylinders. You are going to be OK.

EC: I am so happy for you. See, we knew this may happen. Just play your cards right and don't let your Exw get in the middle of things. Let your YD see things for herself. Your prayers have been answered.

Relady: What can I say? You appear to have things under control. New convertable and letting your hair down: you are ready to conquer the world. Go girl!

Dave: Stay with the plan even though the flashbacks.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/03/03 07:49 PM
Hi All,

Well the weekend is almost upon us, and I feel that something is blowing in the wind, just a gut feel.

My "lady friend" sold her house, and is preparing to move to either another house or a townhouse and her exH has been calling her daily... I think reality is setting in for him as a WS, and exH.

It's going to get interesting I'm sure.

EC...

I loved the "Wizard of OZ" concept. After reading that in the MBers awards thread... I realized that it is like the "Wizard of OZ", and we are like all the characters searching and looking for
things such as a... home, heart, brain, courage, and God.
I know I'm on a quest to try to recover and find all those... especially God.

That was a great thread.

avondale...

If it is not put into your heart to go to one of those "divorce groups", then follow what God has put into your heart.

We are here for you, and I for one will try to support you as best I can.

I have been going to a "divorce support group" for a little over a year now at the Church that I attend.
I have found them to be very helpful at times... and I do believe God led me to that group as well as that Church. There are a lot of great people there.

The Lord will lead you, leave it in "His" hands.

relady...

You have been doing so well... but I have one question for you at this point.

You indicated that you shed some tears during "New Years Eve", (which is understandable) are you having triggers go off on you as well?

I like your attitude though... buying a convertible and letting your hair down. Not looking back and just go... I may try that.

Petvet...

How about them "dawgs"?

Did you have a good time at the game?

Anything new on your battle front?

I think I may have a gem for a "lady friend", but I'm having a difficult time opening myself up to her. I still have many issues that I'm going to be dealing with for a long time to come I'm afraid.

Dave, and WGTT...

Hope you are all having a nice day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/03/03 08:11 PM
Hi everyone,

We drove thru the night to get back to SUNNY Florida. I went to bed at 9 am & am up now & exhausted.

The pictures have been sent to Faith to post on the board & she will bump it up when she does.

My head feels like fluff right now. D is a night owl & when I got done driving at 2 am she said she could drive home. Well 2 1/2 hours later, Mom, I'm tired !!!. That was 3 hours from home so I bought coffee & here we are.

I hope everyone is well - just briefly read thru as much as my head will comprehend.

D.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/03/03 10:15 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend.

Wallace

WOW, that is an interesting turn of events. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
So, her H was WS and now you think the 'fog' has lifted? How long were they married and do you think she could possibly have some sort of feelings for her H? Be very careful and don't offer any suggestions that would influence her in any way and you'll have a pretty good idea what's going on.

Believe me, I have a lot of triggers, but I try not to react to all of them, otherwise; I would be an emotional wreck. Everynow and then one slips through my mental radar. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And I just go with it until its over.

Petvet

Before I can conquer the world, I first have to conquer myself, which is a neverending project. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

Do you think a Divorce Group is where you want to be at this particular time? I Know you haven't given up on reconciliation, have you?

Everyone else,

Have a great weekend.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/04/03 04:20 AM
Gee, I fell asleep watching TV at 8 PM and now I fear I may be awake for hours <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Not how I wanted to start my weekend, LOL....must be getting old!

Re: Divorce support group...one reason I didn't feel good about going was that they are all on Wednesday nights, which is when I go to a Bible study home group from my church. So I'd have to give that up (which has been very supportive of me) for 3 months to attend the group. Another reason is that, because I do still want restoration of my marriage, I don't want to put the cart before the horse. I know these groups are great for those in separation too, but I just want to wait until I know more of what's ahead for me...maybe in the fall, we'll just have to see.

Wallace -
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's going to get interesting I'm sure. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's for sure! Are you open to the possibility that your lady friend's exH might come to his senses and want reconciliation? Is she? (Sorry, just had to ask since there are many threads about people getting together, even after divorce.)

Hope everyone has a great weekend!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/04/03 09:17 PM
Hi All,

I'm not trying to dump on you guys but my heart has been so broken this morning, I called my sister and just cried in frustration. I picked up the certified letter from the post office exw filed with the court Dec 26 regarding the CS modification. I read it and I can't believe the lies she put in there. She submitted false documents to the court and twisted and manipulated my words. I can't think of the word but isn't that perjury? I am more convinced I'm dealing with a very wicked evil spirit not just with a person here. It's really trying to bring me down under it's power and control.

*******
On the form,
They ask what has changed since the final judgment in may 2002 of the court order requiring a modification?

I submitted: CS Modification needs to made since OD is now 18 and out of HS.

Exw Submits: OD is NOT 18 and is still in HS attending Comm College part time and is not working. [How could she lie? a false statement]

The Facts: OD turned 18 in Feb 2002 will be 19 next month and is working at sonics attending comm college. I went to OD's HS graduation. Was I born yesterday? I didnt have twins YD/OD are not both 17 they are about a 1 3/4 yrs apart she don't even know there ages. OD 84, YD 85

*******
They ask me to explain CS mod reason again:

I submitt: OD 18 is considered an adult now therefore there is only one minor child in the home YD 17 therefore CS should reflect this.

Exw Submits: He is claiming YD is 17 and the only minor child in the home however OD is 18 and is still in the home and is considered a minor.

The Facts: By law Age 17 is a minor, 18 is an adult. [I don't get it?]

*****

They ask why do you feel this CS mod is in the best interest of the child OD?

I submit: I want my income free so I can help OD with college and other things when she's away from home. [My papers were written back in Aug a few weeks before OD was to leave home for college, but she didn't and I didn't know it till later]

Exw submits 12/26 She twisted and manipulated my words: She says judge as you see he wants to continue to support OD while she is attending college and since she is still at home I am requesting the support to continue and INCREASE more than the $800 a month. [Is this greed\extortion or what?]

The Facts: Exw played on my words, I was wanting to have my income free to buy OD the things she needed while in the Dorm. This makes me so mad, I only wanted to help OD with my money so I could help her eventually get a car, a Fridge, books or whatever rather than having money go to exw's house buying food, junk, etc.....The law does not require me to pay for college but only if I agree to in writting, In my honest statemnt I said I want to help OD knowing she would be out exw's house, and on holidays away from college she could have lived with me. I was trying to show a willingness to do this on my own as a loving responsible parent and not through a court order showing despite OD would be dropped I still had others to support her outside the home and exw has twisted my intentions. [That is so cruel and dirty]

This now leaves me only now to get an Attorney, this is pathetic, why come I get sucked back into her traps.

All exw had to do was acknowlege OD is 18 and should be dropped and let the CS reflect YD. This is what I mean, just when I feel I'm out of her web and completely free of her then she pulls stunts like this, she is just money hungry and trying to take me for all I got, she has done me so dirty in all these A's and trying to use me up to the very dime, when is her downfall coming? If they increase CS I might as well be homeless whats the point, I'm working so hard, 40 hours extra a month and between the Gov taxes and my wife I pay out $2,000 a month and now she's asking for more. The money she gets from me ain't helping her or YD/OD because she can't budget it, blowing it and can't buy them nothing. YD/OD work to support the house.

Also In her statement to the court she claims her income has dropped $8,000 a year, if so she should in the late $3x,xxx range, the sly side of that is she is a Graphic Designer and does cash projects on the side, she told me, she said her and a friend did a $15,000 magazine project in early 2002 and other projects the last time she spoke to me peacefully, but I have no way to prove her cash flow, she is paid in cash from her friend, but she is still struggling. But then again it could have been a lie to knowing her. I'll see the numbers when I get a copy of her fin avfid thats on its way to me from the courts.

So this is my proactive plan:

Monday I'm going to get an Attorney [a must now] I have no choice this has to stop, she's backed me in a corner. I can't let her just run with this without some slap from the law for lying and manipulation. It should be easy all the papers are filed waiting a court date.

At Avondales request:

Since YD wants to come live her after HS, I'm going see if she wants finish HS early by attending summer school she only needs two credits. I checked with the Medical University here and they have an Early Medical College Enrollment Program for Highschoolers.

On the Flip side.

If YD comes here to live with me exw will have to pay me CS until YD is 21 based on my state laws. She may try to stop YD if she finds that out but YD is old enough to choose who she wants to live with.

If I have to pay college expenses for OD through the courts the money will not go to exw's house but to a managed trust fund for OD. Exw thinks she's going to have a check from me every month for the next few years but she has a surprize coming. She's going to be checkless from me.

I warned her if she continued to use the Law on me unjustly one day it would turn back on her. She has now submitted false statements. The paper/petition you sign and file with the court before the notary says:

"I understand that I am swearing or affirming under oath to the truthfulness of the claims made in the petition and that the punishment for "Knowingly" making a false statement includes fines and/or imprisonment.

Thanks for listening, just when I thought it was all over, its only the start of something else new, when will she just let me loose, my sister said thats the problem, she's just a tool in the hands of the enemy thats trying to keep you from your blessing and trying to destroy you through financial despair, you see she lied and wants more increases knowing you're already under financial pressure from when you were out of work due to her multiple A's.

As Petvet said, she's a wicked woman..

Please pray for me I stay strong, please pray that she be stopped by the power of God.

Take Care...
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/04/03 09:24 PM
I was trying to show a willingness to do this on my own as a loving responsible parent and not through a court order showing despite OD would be dropped I still had others to support her outside the home and exw has twisted my intentions. [That is so cruel and dirty]

Correction:

I was trying to show a willingness to do this on my own as a loving responsible parent and not through a court order showing despite OD would be dropped I still had other [PLANS after modification] to support her outside the home and exw has twisted my intentions. [That is so cruel and dirty]
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/04/03 10:33 PM
((((((((((( EC )))))))))))))))))
My heart was sinking as I read your post. I am soooo sorry! Please don't view this as a setback!
It sounds like you have a plan, and a lawyer should be able to take care of everything in short order. As you said, it's easy to prove how old both girls are. I also had a thought about the "under the table" income for your exw....my husband also gets paid cash in lots of jobs (actually, not usually "cash" but checks written to him personally). I am assuming your wife also gets paid in that same way. After all, if they got $15,000 for a job, it would not be in hard cash, it would be in some form of checks. The company that paid them would have a record of this as an expense. That means if you know the name of one or more of the companies she's done side work for, you can tell that to your lawyer. If you want to pursue that (and it may be worth a little of your time) they can do some checking with a particular company's expense reports and prove a payout(s) to your exw.

You could probably even petition the court for exw to pay your lawyer's cost since you only had to do that because of her bald-face lies.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Exw submits 12/26 She twisted and manipulated my words: She says judge as you see he wants to continue to support OD while she is attending college and since she is still at home I am requesting the support to continue and INCREASE more than the $800 a month. [Is this greed\extortion or what?]
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EC, I feel very confident that once a judge knows the kind of nomadic lifestyle your exw and kids have had since you left, he/she will not increase any payment. And your idea about a trust account is a perfect solution!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If YD comes here to live with me exw will have to pay me CS until YD is 21 based on my state laws. She may try to stop YD if she finds that out but YD is old enough to choose who she wants to live with. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is it possible to waive your right to that if your YD comes to live with you? I am sure that you feel personally, it would be much better to have your YD with you than to get money from your exw. Right? So tell your exw you will sign something to the effect that if YD lives with you, you waive financial CS rights for as long as she's with you.

I'll be praying for you, honest! Keep us posted.

Oh, and thanks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> for the mention in the Awards thread. I don't think I deserve it, but you were real sweet for mentioning me!

<small>[ January 04, 2003, 05:36 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/05/03 12:17 AM
Hi Avondale

Thanks for the support - Yes, I would be willing to waive my rights of collecting CS from her in my state if YD came here because I really don't care about getting money from her, I don't need the attachment of expectation from her, I'm not seeking revenge, I just want free...I'm just tired of the legal battles and the financial threats for increases from her. I don't know why she keeps coming at me for more, she makes more than I do.

You made a good point about petitioning the court in having her to pay attorney fee's since she lied. If she would have just submitted truthful documents I wouldn't have to do anything it would be all done and over.

I just remembered why I made the statement about helping OD in college and that's because back in July 2002 OD wrote me the apology letter from the city were she was suppose to attend college in [Jacksonville] which is 4 hrs from where exw lived, I thought she was in the dorm and out of the house also the letter had OD's Po Box number that was post marked for that city also. She had gotten a $75,000 scholarship I thought she was there in the dorm.

I found out based on document exw's $8,000 drop in income was based DR's order for her to stop working overtime at her old job, she was at the DR's office 3-4 times a week, the income drop was all OT not her base pay, her new job where she now lives has no OT available, she gets paid monthly, not weekly anymore but she increased a little, so she has to live on her base salary of $40,000 a yr, plus her hidden side jobs, plus my $800 per month but thats not enough, plus OD/YD still has to support the house. She wants that $8,000 loss to come from me, go figure?

I really feel her hardship is because of the evil motives and Sin of what she's doing, her financial and emotional struggles has not stopped since the day she seperated Mar 2001 having Boyfriend(s). I would ask any WS, is it really worth it?

Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/05/03 09:11 PM
Hi everyone!

EC: Even though your exw pulled a dirty one over on you, I would not cry over it. Why? I have a different spin on it. Your "wonderful" ex may have screwed up big time. Please hear me out. Firstly, I would get me an attorney in Florida. By forcing you to go to court, your evil ex has opened up a can of worms. Since you will have to fight over CS, why don't you bring up the custody issue as well. It can't cost you anymore money because you will be in court anyway. You will be able to show how your ex has treated you and the kids since both of you were divorced. You can end this mess once and for all plus you may be able to hit her for attorney fees. Concerning income, you may want to notify the IRS about her (I know it's dirty, but....). What do you think?
Oh! I would save those email messages you receive from your daughter. I don't view this as necessarily a bad thing.

Avondale: I would let God guide me as to whether a divorce group is right for you at this time.

Wallace: I had a wonderful, wonderful , wonderful time, and it's not because of the game either. I have a twinkle in one of my eyes. I can't say anymore.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/06/03 01:55 AM
From Petvet 2 weeks ago
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ...Funny, funny, funny.Huh, huh , huh. I am still in a state of embarassment. I am still legally married, so I just don't know what to do. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">from Petvet yesterday
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wallace: I had a wonderful, wonderful , wonderful time, and it's not because of the game either. I have a twinkle in one of my eyes. I can't say anymore. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK Ladies,I am getting very, very nervous here. Is it something in the water that the guys on this thread are drinking? Maybe the computer screens are hypnotizing them? Are they having a contest of some sort?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You all know we want the very best for you fellas. I think Relady's new name for this thread might actually have been prophetic..."New Loves for Tough Loves", wasn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ January 05, 2003, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/06/03 02:32 AM
Hello everyone!

I agree with Avondale, what's up with the guys? And Petvet, what's happening <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ???

EC - My heart goes out to you dealing with evil XW. It's amazing how she thinks that her lies won't be found out.

Re: the hidden extra income, there are lots of ways that she could be paid & kept out of her regualar pay. One way is to pay bills or pay for things. The company uses it as a write off, & XW benefits. Also, could be paid as an expense reimbiursement so no taxes. Cash (who knows how her friend could justify this, but it has been done) Paying someone else in name who is an "employee" ex teenager in low tax bracket, then giving that person some $ for using her name and XW getting the rest.

There are lots more ways and if it becomes important to track them down, I will post more ideas.

Wallace - thank you for finally sharing about your Christmas.

I'm gonna watch Spiderman with my kids now. (the younger 2 anyway. Oldest son went back to college in Jacksonville today - I miss him already!!)

D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/06/03 07:17 PM
Hi Everyone,

It's a new week with hopefully good things in store for all of us.

EC...

I'll give you my thoughts on this CS issue... as I am in the midst of a real hair puller concerning CS.

I'm sure you thought of this... but if you have your daughter's birth certificate, you can present that to the courts as evidence that your exW lied about your daughter's age.

If you have to hire an attorney and go to Court, I would most definitely ask for attorney's fees. Judges don't like to be lied to, so if you can show that your exW in fact did falsify the facts surrounding your daughters age... you may be awarded attorney's fees for having to go through the extra expense.

You are dealing with evil... such as we all are. It's just how evil can they become. In my household my exW has been dubbed the "Entity", because she is so evil.

It's like they have been taken over by Satan himself. Who knows... maybe they have... they act like they have.

Here is another way you can track her money. Have her do a full financial disclosure of her bank accounts (If you know who she banks with). There is ways to track this... I don't know how it's done... but I know it has been done.

I'm sorry you have to go through this... it works you... and I think it's just as bad as going through the "D".

avondale...

"New Loves for Tough Love"...I think relady called that one correctly... LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's starting to head in that direction... Huh. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet starting to worry you... a twinkle in his eye? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I've been wanting to fall asleep all the time too. Friday night came... went to my Church group and went straight to bed... I think it's in the air.

Too bad the divorce support group is on the same night as your Bible study. Just to give you an idea... almost everyone in my group does not want a "D". They want to reconcile with their WS. They are a good group of people... I've learned a lot from them and the Church conselors. They also have "Divorce Care" there as well. That is a very good program.

WGTT...

Let us know when the pictures from the MBers get together get put up on the MBers photo album, I would like to see them.

How was the "Spiderman" movie?

I watched the "Lord of the Rings" with my YD the other day... 3 hour movie... WoW!

Petvet...

Twinkle in the eye? Are we going somewhere with this? Sure sounds like it might be heading in that direction.
For your own piece of mind... wait until you have gotten your "D", before you fall into something you may regret.
That way... if and when you do get a "D", you can walk away from your "M" with a clear conscience... just a suggestion.

I had made up my mind that I wasn't going to do anything until my "D" was final. I knew my "M" was over... but I didn't want to be accused by anyone... that I didn't do everything in my power to save my "M"... and you all know the rest of the story.

Me...

Well let me just take this whole "Love thread", and take it way up... by about 1000 notches. This weekend my "lady friend" told me... (we are going to need a marching band for this one, not just a drum roll please), that she wanted to "Marry Me".

We both discussed it, and I told her I would take it under consideration, and we both decided to revisit it in about 6 months.

So what do you think about that? Go ahead... I'm ready to get beat up.

relady, Dave, and anybody else I may have missed... I hope your day is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ January 06, 2003, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/06/03 09:59 PM
Happy Monday to all!

WGTT ....Great ideas about income disclosure. But we're waiting on the pics!

Wallace ....judicious use of the smiley faces there, LOL. I hate to burst your bubble, but the ladies on this thread don't need a marching band with your announcement! I could have told you this was going to happen back before Thanksgiving and I'm sure Relady , WGTT and RMA could have too. Now you, on the other hand, might have been caught off guard. Were you? I seem to recall you were caught off guard with the "I love you" declaration too. I predict that she will not wait 6 months to bring up the subject again, either overtly or covertly by using hints and innuendos (like all women know how to do-myself included).

Wallace, what is wrong with this picture? She is running and you aren't. Why? Maybe she's rebounding, maybe not. But it sure does appear that way. Is it possible to just "date" for a while without becoming so emotionally tangled? Where are YOU on this dating/love/marriage thing? You've said you wanted to go slow, but she's either picking up signals (maybe you don't even realize you're sending them) or she is very determined (which is entirely possible). Now I hope all this doesn't "beat you up" (I could have worded it much stronger <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) but just shows concern for both you and her (mostly you, cuz I know you better).
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/06/03 11:31 PM
Hi All,

Hope you had a great weekend.

For this post I have cleaned my desk of all papers and put my phone on voicemail, and my computer is directly in front of me. LOL
Wallace,

I am beginning to fear that you're only telling us one side of the story. I suspected it when your 'ladyfriend' told you she loved you, now I know for sure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Avondale, you are so kind. It's nice to be nice, but our friend needs 'crisis intervention'. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now, Wallace, you cannot convince me as a female that she is just dropping all of this on you out of the clear blue sky! You, my friend are definitely fanning the flames. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> There is no way she would be comfortable saying these things, buying you 'pants' etc.

Things to think about:

Most, BS's will agree that it doesn't matter what the Ws's has done, there is still some amount of love still present. It doesn't just go away by osmosis.

Could she be running from her xh since he is now calling her every day?

Is your healing complete? She is the first one to come along and treat you nice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Have you consulted God? Talked to your pastor? You may not have an answer in 6 months. Actually, I think you already have your mind made up.

Marching band or funeral procession. Up to you! Ouch! Now that's cold! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC

Wow, your xw is vicious. But to lie to the court. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Do you think she realizes what she is doing? are there drugs involved? It's easy enough for you to remedy, but you probably need to hire an attorney. You really need someone to expose her for what she is, maybe hire a PI as well.

Everyone else,

Have a great day.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/07/03 05:47 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

I did use those smiley faces rather judiciously didn't I? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Oh, my, there is another one... they just keep cropping up...LOL.

You saw this coming back before Thanksgiving? I wasn't ready for this at all... in fact I was caught completely off guard with the conversation of her wanting to marry me.

My intentions are to date her, and that is all at this point in time. Getting married to anyone isn't even on the horizon for me. I am enjoying being single again.

I still have a bad taste in my mouth from what I just came out of. All the bad things that happened in my marriage far out weigh the good, so I have a lot of healing to do before I even entertain the thought of marriage.

That was pretty much how our discussion ended concerning that issue.

So... I plan on staying single for quite some time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady...

Cleaning the desk off, and putting on the voice mail? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Oh oh... I'm in trouble now...LOL.

I'm telling you pretty much all that there is. Granted, I'm using all of the "MBers principals. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But, that pretty much is the total extent of it.
Who knows... if I had found this site before the collapse of my marriage... maybe my marriage would still be in tact. Unfortunately I'll never find that out, but it is really working great with the new relationship I have going now.

She knows about MBers as well, so maybe we are so taken with each other... because these principals really do work, when put to use.

According to my "lady friend", the main reason her exH was calling all the time here recently was because his g/f was out of town, and he was bored. Since his g/f has gotten back into town... she hasn't heard a word from him.

I'm sure she still has feelings for her exH, the same as I do for my exW... you don't kill 20 plus years of marriage and feelings overnight. It's going to take us both a very long time to come to terms with all of it.

That's why I keep saying, "steady as she goes".

I know she wants to step up the pace... for whatever reason... I'm not sure... but she does.

I on the other hand, am moving very slow and mythodical. I did talk to my Church Pastor, and we both talked to the Church counselors about the whole situation. They all indicated that we need time to heal before we get into a serious relationship... which I totally agree with. I'm not sure if she agrees with it, but I surely do.

I prayed on it as well, many times. Should I date her, or not. So far God has put it into my heart to keep seeing her. I'm not sure what the reasons are, but that's what has been put into my heart.

God is leading me on this... where it is going to take me? Im not sure, but I'm on my way as you can see.

How will it end up? Hopefully... good things will come out of this, but we are taking a wait and see attitude, and living it one day at a time.

If you take everything that has gone on, and is going on... it will consume you. God is my pilot on this one.

So in a nut shell... this is where we are situated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I haven't committed to anything, and to be perfectly honest... I'm not sure when I would want to committ to marriage again.

I know one thing... it's not anytime soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope that clears a few things up, but I'm not sure I did... LOL.

Hope everyone has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ January 07, 2003, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/07/03 09:10 PM
Hello,

The pix are up. Not everyone wanted to be identified so not everyone that was in attendance is shown. There are no names right now, but I will list names on each pix shortly.

Just taking a short break, it hasn't been a good day. I made appmt with an attorney on the 31st which was the first time available. I posted a separate thread on proving money was spent on OW so if any of you have any ideas, please let me know.

Finacially it is very possible that we could take a huge nose dive any minute. I am working on possible sources of income and cash right now. YUK. This SUX. WH is in fast spinning downward spiral.

D.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/08/03 12:21 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: You have done it again, pal. You have gotten the tribe in an uproar. Avondale and Relady have laid down some serious words. Remember, you asked for it. Why would your friend take such a big step so soon? It seems kind of odd to me? Saying and doing are two different things. Dr. Laura recommends dating a minimum of one and half years before trying to take things to the next level. this is a time for evaluation and analysis. Be careful. As far as my situation is concern, I have not and will not do anything that will damage my creditabililty. I am going to do things the right way and not repeat any problems from the past.

EC: How are things with you? You have received some good advice from fellow thread members.

Avondale and Relady: There is not anything in the water or air. It's using sound MB principles. They work regardless of gender.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/08/03 05:53 PM
Hi Everyone,

Petvet...

I can faintly hear war drums beating out in the distant jungle... LOL.

I couldn't hold that one back... it caught me off guard so much (that she wanted to marry me), that I had to post it... just to see what everyone thought about it.

I'm in full agreement with you Petvet as well
as Dr.Laura... I have every intention on waiting to see how this all plays out for at least a year and a half... at the very minimum.

If she can't live with that, then I guess there is not much I can do or say that is going to change her or my mind.

We will see how this all plays out.

Glad to hear that your taking things slow and mythodical as well.

It's true about the MBers Principals... when applied correctly... it puts things in a whole different world. Putting God first in your life plays an even bigger part... I think that is where all of it comes from.

WGTT...

I posted on your thread about trying to keep your finances in order when your WS starts acting like a complete goof.

If you do file for a D. I know that the Judge will take into consideration all the financial misgivings that a WS has perpetuated, and many times they will factor that in. Hopefully you don't have to get down and dirty, but prepare yourself just in case.

I looked at the pics on the MBers Photo Album.

How many of you were there?

Can't wait to see who is who... hopefully you won't keep us all guessing.

avondale, relady, EC, and Dave...

Hope everything is going well for you today.

RMA...

If your out there... I hope everything is well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/09/03 01:54 AM
Wallace,

Just popped in here real quick Here's who was at the get together -
sunrise & d
kily & s
sheppette
me
NSR
C++ guy (now thy will not my will ...)
catamount
logically irrational (not in pix)

Thanks for your response. I have been very busy recently and have recently got a new project work wise that should be very good for me - a good long term customer if this job goes right which it should - WH isn't doing this one!

To all the others - Have a great evening!!

D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/09/03 07:11 PM
Hi WGTT,

Thanks for the info as far as who attended the MBers get toether.

Looks like everyone was enjoying themselves, and was having a good time.

Good luck on your project.

Petvet, avondale, relady, and EC...

Haven't heard much from all of you lately... hope everything is O.K.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 01/10/03 01:43 AM
To all,

Visiting this evening and WHAT do I see???? Ya'll are gonna make me give up my exercise program!

Wallace,

You are NOT getting married! Don't even think about it, and that is an order! I have been dating my guy friend since the divorce - he was actually an acquaintance. It has been 3 years now. Remember that EVERYTHING has a time and a season. You are too vulnerable and the fog goes both ways, friend. Enjoy the relationship, but please do 2 things:

1) recognize you are not ready to make another commitment so soon, and
2) you must make that perfectly clear to lady friend. If she truly cares, she will do what my guy friend is doing....waiting for me.

Petvet,

What the heck is a "twinkle"?? I can only imagine. Your time will come, but it is not just right now, OK?

avondale and relady,

Ah, the sensible ones, here! Luv you two!

WGTT,

No slight to you, but I got to know these ladies a bit more than you. Thanks for posting that pic you referenced. I haven't looked yet, but will do so to try to figure out who's who....especially NSR, as he is from my time4 period here and a dear friend. Glad you had fun!

EC,

You are in my prayers. You know, the end never does seem to come with these things....more legal wrangling for you and I am sorry about that. Know that I care.

Davepr,

You out there? Just saying Hi and hope recovery is going well.

That's all folks! Keep praying for each other!

RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/10/03 04:15 PM
Good Morning All,

RMA...

It is good to hear from you... what a nice surprise!

Did you go back to your karate classes?

Many years ago... I had taken Hop Won Kin Do...(I probably spelled that wrong)... it was that long ago... I made it to brown belt. Broke my little toe in a tournament. That pretty much ended my work out for almost a year. By the time it healed... I had found another activity to bide my time with... GIRLS!.

I have been thinking about getting back into it... in fact I have already paid for about 6 months worth of classes. So it's just a matter of finding the time to do it.

Time seems to be at a premium right at the moment.

I like your idea about waiting before making any rash decisions. I indicated that to my lady friend and she said she would wait for 5 yrs... which is fine by me. I don't know what will happen if and when we hit that 5 year mark. Who knows... I'll probably turn into a pumpkin when we hit that 5 yr. mark. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I don't plan on getting married. I like things just the way they are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

3 yrs. and counting with your guy friend... that's great to hear. That's what I'm looking for... that same type of a relationship.

Good to hear from you RMA... stay in touch.

I hope everyone has a very nice weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/10/03 05:58 PM
Hi All,

Wallace

See what you did? Now RMA will never trust us to be alone again. LOL There is always one that acts up while the parents are away. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now that all the 'ladies' of this thread agree, you know you don't have a chance!

RMA

Good to hear from you so soon! Avondale and I are doing our best, however;, Wallace is totally disobedient <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Thank you for your hard hand of discipline for him and Petvet.

ME

I've been very busy lately and have barely had a chance to check my email. I decided to mainly stick to this thread and not read the others. For me, they were causing confusion and lots of sadness. I started to question myself and that is not good. So I backed off a few days, consulted with the Lord and made a decision.

WGTT

Where are the pictures posted? I can't seem to find an MBers picture album. Is it on this site?

Petvet, Davepr

Hope all is well.

All, Have a great and wonderful weekend.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/11/03 04:08 AM
Hi Everyone,

Look like you guys are having fun in here!

Well after a week of praying and trying figure out how to go about this CS issue. My brother called me out the blue and ask how I was doing. I haven't spoke to him since Sept since his phone was off after him running into a financial snag however he's back on his feet. He said " ok I want to get in your business so whats happening now between you and exw? I told him the latest about what exw was trying to do to me through the court by lying. He said "thats it"! He said ,I'm getting down on my knees tonight to pray about this, I'm going to even try to pay for you a lawyer!....I was stunned? I was like boy God moves when he needs to......My brother immediatly thought exw and OM wrote papers up since it was so full of lies and accusations, he said it had a very demonic overtone to it. He thought maybe OM has controlled exw to the point that he would force her to lie to the court to extort money from me for his own personal gain but it's going to cost her bigtime in the end. I don't know if illegal drugs or alcohol are involved or not. Seeing she blurpped out one time " OM is not perfect and has some issues", who knows?

So today I contacted a lawyer and told him my story of what's on the documents I submitted and what exw submitted. The lawyer said 'what?!! Has she lost her @#%*#% mind? I said that's what I submitted and this is what she submitted to the court. Before I could continue he said so in other words you have been paying CS money since May 2002 that doesn't belong to her and she wants more on top of that?, I said yes. He said this and that needs to happen. He then told me his price a flat fee $1,500 and said send him my paper work, so he can view it. He also said he would ask for exw to pay attorney fee's since she lied and submitted false documents to the courts, he said had she not done that I wouldn't have to hire him and it would have been a done deal. So that's where I am now trying to obtain miracle money.

I spoke to YD/OD earlier this week, YD still talking about moving here. OD is experiencing life a little. I can tell she still has some anger but it's slowly lifting. After I get her her BD gift I'm sure she open up a little more. I decided I will seek custody of YD if she wants to come once I hire an attorney. She's old enough she can pick and choose where she wants to stay, I wouldn't force her though.

The only thing I'm concerned about now is that once exw finds out I hired an attorney to defend myself and she realize she's in some serious trouble with the law and with fine's and possible imprisonment is she will try to destroy my relationship between me and YD/OD though if I'm doing something out of spite to her though if she was innocent and done nothing, this has been the very thing I've dealt with along, she brainwashes them when she does her dirty work that they don't know about and all YD/OD see is my actions and I look like Mr bad guy. I can guarantee you through manipualtion she will tell YD/OD this "Your dad hired a lawyer trying to send me to jail and he's trying to get back all the money that belongs to you guys he's paid, who would want a man like that?" Therefore my kids will think, dad?, why come you don't love us enough to take care of us and do your part?, you want back all the money you paid? .....She's done this before to them along these lines that's why I know, this has been part of the problem between me and YD/OD, this is not about CS this is about the deceptive motives behind it all, years prior I was my Kids everything.

Take Care
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/11/03 04:56 AM
relady

Here's the link - it's in GQII where things get buried pretty quickly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

MB Photo Album link

Alanon was a life saver this week for me. It is really helping me clarify my situation, and there is a lot to clarify <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

YS is back in traveling soccer on a local level - no more overnight tournaments! Yea for my sake.

D.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/11/03 07:18 AM
Happy Saturday y'all,
For some reason I have insomnia and so I thought I'd check and see what's up. A couple of new posts!

EC - that sounds very encouraging about your conversation with the lawyer! Actually, the fee doesn't sound that bad, considering the lawyers where I am get $200-250/hour. And hopefully you will get reimbursed through the court from your exw. And what a testimony about your brother, too. That's great!

At what point will your exw find out you hired an attorney? I wonder if you should consider, in your next conversation with your daughters, to explain (at the very least) about how their mother lied about their birthdates, and tell them you're letting them know in case they hear it from her. Remind them you have written proof (the certified letter). You don't necessarily have to go into all the other lies on the court papers too. But that way they would be prepared should she say something to them and start to make you look bad. If you did that, would it do more harm than good?

Relady , you're right...A few of the guys on here are going to give this thread some kind of reputation, LOL.

Wallace , in my insomnia some situations were running through my mind and yours was one of them. My final comment to your latest "True Love for Tough Loves" update is this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We both discussed it, and I told her I would take it under consideration, and we both decided to revisit it in about 6 months. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
To be blunt, to revisit in 6 months gives a WHOLE LOT of hope to anyone, especially a woman who is already very emotionally involved with you.

Then you said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I like your idea about waiting before making any rash decisions. I indicated that to my lady friend and she said she would wait for 5 yrs... which is fine by me </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK...I am SURE this lady friend is a wonderful person, but this really sounds like she has an agenda (by that I don't mean something necessarily evil or underhanded...I mean she knows what she wants and she is determined to get it no matter what). To make a statement about an event that may or may not occur in 5 years which would impact the rest of your life sure seems like she is living out a fairy tale. PRIOR to healing from the pain of divorce and all the bad things that brings, it is understandable. So again, I think she's really jumping the gun and needs to work on herself before she works on you any more. Don't most authorities say the best way to do that is to NOT be involved (at any level) with someone until you've gone past it?

WGTT - I'm sorry it's going to take a few weeks before you can see a lawyer. But that will give you time to get all your paperwork in order. Have you found any more ways to get evidence of money spent on OW? I have looked at the MB photo album but keep having ALL kinds of trouble making the pics larger when I click on them. The thumbnails are too small to see each person well.

Dave - we haven't heard from you in a while, is everything going OK ?

ME - I am trying to decide how to file taxes...married jointly (this would definitely benefit him and probably me too, but which means I have to interact with H and I don't really want to), or married separately (which will put me in the highest tax bracket). This year I have a HUGE amount of charitable donations from me personally (but went through joint checking acct) and I would prefer to not have to share that with H (which would happen with joint filing). Also, I wonder what kind of "message" either way would send to H. So I'm still thinking/praying about it. I guess my CPA will need to do some extra figuring this year.

Petvet, RMA , have a great weekend!

<small>[ January 11, 2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/11/03 12:53 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: I need to give you great CAUTION. DO NOT FILE TAXES JOINTLY UNTIL YOUR SITUATION IS COMPLETE AND FINALIZED. You can always file an extension; just make sure you pay any back taxes to avoid any penalties. I would strongly advise filing married filing separately. Consult your tax professional. If there are any back taxes that need to be paid, the WS seems to forget about their obligation and live you with the burden. I know from personal experience, but w will catch hell about it when we get to court.

EC: You are on the right track. Avondale was right; you may want to talk to your D's to give them a heads up. Your wonderful ex will certainly throw venom around about you to your D's once she finds out your intentions. Did you call several attorneys? Just some advice, $1,500 seems about $500 on the upside.

Wallace: I told you the ladies were going to get you. Even setting a five year plan does not seem right, I would not even tell her about a time limit. Just tell her that you are not ready and give reasons. Normally three to five years is the time you should have figured out whether she is a keeper or not. If you find out she is not, tell her a cut her loose. Don't waste your time and hers.

WGTT: I'm going to check out the pictures.

Relady: I agree with you. Cruising too many threads can be time consuming. Some threads are depressing. I'm glad you have chosen to stay with us.

RMA: "Twinkle, twinkle little star". I'll save the details for later. I have kept may hands in my pockets, and I am continuing to play the role of the scorned husband. My hormones have been put on ice. Three years in your relationship sounds like you may have a keeper. Jealous jealous me. RMA, you are alright.

O' everyone, "Joe come lately fan". Go Falcons!

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/11/03 04:47 PM
Hi All,

Avondale - I agree keeping information to YD/OD to very little would be wise. I may say nothing until later when the court date approaches. I read the paperwork even more and saw that exw even quoted the judges words incorrectly from the final CS order, I'm sure they'll love that. Sometimes I wonder if exw did this in desperation to get my attention and to keep me tied to her, she knows this was the final time I would have anything to do with her and this cuts all legal ties forever. Is it possible she could be jealous of my freedom and now wants me financially bound to also gain the attention should ever get another mate? I wonder sometimes.

Petvet - Yep, I feel I'm on the right track now, I'm amazed I tried to avoid all this from the start. I remember I was going to get a lawyer to do the CS Mod back in the summer but he said I could do it myself stating it was just a few forms and he would feel bad taking my money for such a simple thing. If I would have known problems like these occur when the other party lies, I would have found another lawyer to do it. I considered that price $1,500 and heard lower, I remember other lawyers said about $1,000 however don't know if that was a flat fee?. I consider my case easy, everything is filed and done, unless YD comes. Once lawyer expose exw, who knows what will happen. At this point there is no reason to even tell her I will have an attorney, she may try to recant her filings, if possible. There's nothing I need from her or lawyer since she filed it all. She'll just see me lawyer on court day and wonder were he/she came from. I went searching through some papers I have and I found documents with her business name on them she failed to mention in her filings and all the lawyer has to do in the courtroom is mention that name and ask if its hers, that will go over well. I had a client name come to me she mentioned if they need to verify business activity. Even some of her business clients later turned boyfriends will be brought up to in court.

Sad part is now I have to fly there for court, no telephone session. My exw will like that, she's been trying to get in my face with her OM for the longest. I'm going to request extra security when I go probably a 2 man police escort to sit beside me in the courtroom with one eye on OM. I don't trust her OM, he's made threats before I consider him dangerous. When the court session is over I will need an escort to my car, I want protection at all times. I know some may think I overreacting but you don't know what I've been through, if exw came alone I would be fine but she won't I know her, after its over she'll probably need a ride home anyway after all the lies are brought out and she's fined by the judge.

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/13/03 09:05 PM
Hi All,

Well I had typed a nice long post... and the MBer gremlin ate it again... so here is the short version.

relady...

Sometimes you have to walk away from it all... a day or better, and just try to clear your mind. If you don't, it will work you.

How are you holding up?

Have you heard anything from husband yet?

WGTT...

I'm glad to hear that your Alanon group is helping you out. I know my divorce group helped me quite a bit. You don't feel like your stranded on an island all by yourself.

How is your project coming along?

EC...

I agree with what avondale stated... tell your daughters what is going on, I'm sure once they know the truth... they can take a more in depth look at your exW, and decide she is not all she is cracked up to be.

When your exW's B/F threatened you... you should of had him arrested. Next time they threaten you... have them arrested... that will slow them down a bit.

avondale...

I'm not sleeping either... taxes... CS issues and the like. It's no fun.

I'm going to let my Tax accountant figure my mess out. You may want to do the same... they will work it so you will get the best return you can.

I think I made my "lady friend come to the conclusion that I'm not going to make any drastic moves anytime soon.

This weekend we talked and we both came to the conclusion that it's best for both of us if we just see each other, heal, and we will both know when we are ready. I told her it's going to take a very long time for me to heal... and she again said that she would wait. So we will see what happens. If isn't broke, then I say, "don't try to fix it". I like being single!

Petvet...

The ladies have given me some good advice and I am going to take it. It probably will not get me out of the dog house... but actions speak better than words. they will see.

"Twinkle twinkle little star... how I wonder what your up too"... LOL... j/k. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

What is with that? LOL... I think you maybe holding back on us... LOL

It's O.k., go ahead... tell us... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

"Twinkle twinkle little star"... it will only hurt for a little while... if you want to tell us. Don't worry... the black sheep of this thread will stick up for you... LOL... j/k.

I had to laugh, when I read that... that was a good one.

Go Raiders! Even though I am a Bronco fan... but they need to get a team going again before I get my hopes up on them.

RMA and Dave...

When you get time... let us know how you are doing.

RMA... I think Petvet needs some direction here on this "twinkle twinkle little star stuff. (Only kidding Petvet)

Hope everyone has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/14/03 05:48 AM
Hi Gang!

Well tonight was my first day at school and it was very informative on the first day. We really didn't get into the books but went over the class agenda for the next 12 weeks. It felt weird being in a classroom with desk, haven't done that in many years but it felt good to be learning something new. After giving some thought about exw's lies on paper, I realize as you guys said this is not a beginning of new trouble for me but it's really an ending. So I decided to look it different.

I regret I didn't report the threats from exw's OM to the police when that happened, I really took it serious, the threat didn't come across as a person blowing off steam. I will report them or the next guy if it happens again, hopefully it won't.

I will eventually tell D's what's happening once I get the ball rolling. Money is the hold up now. Once court date happens probably May or June, exw will have to start paying back the overpayments or they may stop CS until it balances out for one whole year, she'll owe from May 2002 thru May 2003, either way come May I'll be done, 4 more months? Don't sound to bad. It's amazing I told exww when we were still M and she was using the law in every unjust way possible, I said oneday the very law you use against me unjustly will turn back on you and bite you one day and here we are.

More than anything, I'm sticking to my goals and very shortly I will have no reason to speak of exw again, there will be no more legal ties period, she has her own life she chose and I have mine, why carry the negative weight if I don't have to?

Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/14/03 10:53 AM
Hi all!

EC: I agree with Wallace that you should have had that OM locked up if he made threats against you. You never know with people today. What type of classes you are taking?

Wallace: No, I'm not really holding things back. I mainly have someone to talk to now. There is nothing serious.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/14/03 12:43 PM
Hi Y'all,
I have been SLAMMED at work this month, doing budgetary and tax stuff --which is the only thing about my job I don't like <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

EC - What kind of classes are you taking? I admire you for doing that, I don't think I could go to school; I don't have that yearning for structured education that you need to succeed. And GOOD FOR YOU for realizing you don't have to carry the negative weight!

Petvet -"just talking", twinkles.. hmmm...sounds like an installment of an interesting story. I think Wallace started off by "just talking" to his lady friend too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Relady - you're still on this thread, aren't you? What's new with you?

Wallace - Don't think of yourself as a black sheep. You're just the first so we get to razz you the most, and it's all done with love!

Me - I will probably file taxes separately, but I'm still praying about it because I want to weigh the implications that it sends to my H.

Hope everyone has a great week. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: tmmx Re: Tough Love - 01/14/03 04:32 PM
Hi Petvet - you have a nice long thread here, and maybe there is something in it for me. After 14 months in plan B and 7 months after filing D, my WW is at least thinking about counseling and/or reconciling. But with no enthusiasm. Can you remember anyone with an experience like that, good or bad?

Thanks,

Tom
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/14/03 05:56 PM
Hi Everyone,

Petvet, Avondale, Wallace,

The certificate program and class I'm taking is called "Business Entrepreneurship Management". It's 5 classes total, its about managing your company better or if you're starting a new company how to launch it off the ground in all aspects inside and out. The question was asked, where do want to be by the end of 2003 and what are you doing to get there? Then she gave us a paper to write our goals out by the month then by the week, she guaranteed our lives would be changed forever by the time we're done with the program regardless if you're working for a company or you have your own...

She made an interesting statement yesterday, she said if you are goal driven don't sit around on your job and shadow another employee waiting for them to give you there position but to create and develope the talents you have for something even greater, you must have vision and see yourself doing what you desire and walk into it. If you want to become a CEO of your company then prepare, If you want to start your on company then plan and prepare. So that's what going to school is doing for me, I'm not necessarily a long term book person thats why I never sought a college dgree but I'm more Technical hands on but when it comes time to learn something I will read, so going to college now is a big twist for me this is new territory...The Classroom reminded me so much of highschool and that's been 2X+ years ago. In the past I have had lots of business ideas but never put my thoughts and actions on paper and never processed the goals little by little it was always dive into it then crash and burn, my zeal would outrun my plan, so planning better and jotting your map and how you're going to arrive to your level of success is the key to longterm longivity. So I'm now walking into a shortterm plan [school] to live my dreamtime lifestyle later. I'm tired of dreaming and talking about what I want in life, I'm now doing something about it. Entrepreneurship is what I've been wired for in life Im convinced.

I'm finding that your WS can leave you but that don't mean you're worthless, I'm finding if your WS leaves you, you can become every good thing you ever intended to be and more.

Take Care..
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/14/03 07:19 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a great weekend.

EC

I'm glad to see you're going to school and moving on. Believe me, owning your own business is very rewarding and liberating. It's exciting to formulate a plan and the steps to reach your goal knowing that you're responsible for how much money you make. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace

You're so right about these boards. A definite break was in order. No more lurking about for me, I'm staying home(tough love). You know when we stray too far from home we get into trouble.

No, I haven't heard from my H yet. My Pastor confirmed that I was doing the right thing, however; he could see that I was becoming impatient. Then it occurred to me that I needed a break. I'm fine now.

Petvet

Soooo, let me get this straight, now you have a real person to talk to, so we're on the back burner now? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Or are you afraid to give us the real story?

How is your son?

Avondale

NO, I'm not leaving this 'thread'. Just took a break from lurking about reading other posts. Bad move!

WGTT

Thank you for the link, I was able to see the pictures.

Davepr, RMA

Hope all is well with you both.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 01/14/03 08:18 PM
HI everyone, sorry I have not posted since the new year, I have been busy with work and the family. We are also trying to sell our house
and move across time. Everything is going well for us. It sounds like everyone here is doing
great. Take care, I will check back in when I can.
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/14/03 08:19 PM
Hi All,

EC...

What kind of classes did you begin?

If it cause you to take your mind off all of the wonderfulness that you have been going through with your exW... then I'm sure it will be good for you at the very minimum to get involved in it.

I'm like avondale... I've got too much going on to even think about taking on anything else at this point in time.

I don't think my brain would be into it at this point in time.

My brain has been taxed enough with all that is going on in my life. I'm not up to taking any additional College classes at this point. Maybe sometime down the road... I might want to take another class... something that I know that I would enjoy.

Good luck with your class.

Petvet...

I'm with you... it is nice to have someone to talk with. I found that I was interested in getting an opinion from the opposite sex on all the wonderfulness that was going on in my life and getting their take on things as they saw it.

I gotta lot of different opinions, but they all lead to one thing... I was better off without my exW, and in the long run... my exW did me a favor. So far, I have to agree.

Oh, and just a side note... avondale is correct... my "lady friend" and I just started out talking as well... and you know the story so far. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

What's happening with your wife... is it all quiet on the western front?

avondale...

I know you like to razz me with my situation with my "lady friend and that it's all in fun. I also know sometimes my situations get a little skewed from time to time... but I eventually get back on track... LOL

We have to be able to have a little fun sometimes, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> otherwise this stuff will drive you crazy.

I'm still rolling around on this tax stuff... trying to get everything together that I need. I'm still not well sleeping though... I don't know what that is all about.

Did you decide what way you may go on your taxes?

tmmx...

I though I might chime in on your question...

I'm glad to hear that your W is willing to go to a IC or MC, and work on a reconcilitation with you. I wouldn't worry too much about your wife being less than enthusiastic.

I would go to the MC with her and Plan A like crazy.

I had several attempts at reconcilation... with a MC and without a MC. Needless to say I was the only one really working on the M. I didn't know about this site at the time and about Plan A. I'm not sure if it would of made a difference though... as I wasn't aware that my exW was having an A for over 4 yrs. behind my back. It wasn't until I found out about the A, that I decided I had had enough... and decided to end the M. Ther is a lot more to the story... but that is the main portion of it.

We will need to know more about your situation, before we can elaborate on anything real specific.

It's a good start what you have going though... most people would die to have another chance at saving their M.

relady, RMA, Dave, WGTT...

Hope everything is going well for all of you.

Everyone have a great day!

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/14/03 08:24 PM
EC and relady... we crossed posted.

Sometimes at work I read what was posted and through the day it takes me awhile to get through my short posts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/15/03 11:29 AM
Hi all:

Avondale: I went through the same thing as you did last. As a matter of fact, I had already done my taxes as separate then w came back and wanted to file jointly. I thought it would be sending a bad mesage if I refused. (WRONG MOVE) To make a long story short, I have been left to pay back taxes by myself. I will work this out in court. She owes me mega bucks. Please don't make the wrong move.

Relady: Huh, Huh, Huh (taking a breath), huh, huh! I am speechless. I will figure out some way to explain things.

Tmmx: Dave had a situation similar to yours. Go back to the thread back during the summer and early fall of 2002.

Dave : It's nice to hear that everything is going fine.

EC: Relady is right. Once you have been out on your own, it's is hard to go and work for someone else. That class sounds like something I would have an interest in. Once my mess is complete, I am going to finish coursework to take the CFP exam.

Relady: I know you are impatient. Over time though, you will come to your own decision and feel comfortable with it.

Later.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/15/03 01:09 PM
Hello everyone,

Things have been very busy and I am trying to stay calm so I can examine my situation with a clear head.

EC
I had to respond to this .....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The certificate program and class I'm taking is called "Business Entrepreneurship Management". It's 5 classes total, its about managing your company better or if you're starting a new company how to launch it off the ground in all aspects inside and out. The question was asked, where do want to be by the end of 2003 and what are you doing to get there? Then she gave us a paper to write our goals out by the month then by the week, she guaranteed our lives would be changed forever by the time we're done with the program regardless if you're working for a company or you have your own...

She made an interesting statement yesterday, she said if you are goal driven don't sit around on your job and shadow another employee waiting for them to give you there position but to create and develope the talents you have for something even greater, you must have vision and see yourself doing what you desire and walk into it. If you want to become a CEO of your company then prepare, If you want to start your on company then plan and prepare. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That teacher sounds fantastic! It does start in the mind, and if you can envision it, you can do it, have it and be it.

I am in a year long mentor coaching program that started Jan 8 & we have started the same way. The books we are reading are "As a man thinketh" by James Allen & "You 2" by Price Pritchard. We are also listening to the "Sucess series" by Bob PRoctor link

One thing that was stressed in our program, that we need to envision where we want to be, where we are going, AND we have to know where we are. It's like being in Dallas & saying we want to go to NYC & we take off in that direction, but can't find NYC. It turns out, we didn't really know where we were - actually we were in CA, so no wonder we got lost.

I have been involved with another program of Bob Proctor in the past and received tremendous benefits. If you want (or anyone here) I can post the books and activities that we do.

For everyone else, I quickly read to keep up with everyone, but have mainly been posting under God could, but do I believe he would so that all can see what I've written and get a wide variety of responses.

D.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/15/03 05:42 PM
Hi WGTT,

Say thats some good info. I will get more book info from you later, I'm trying to digest what I have going right now. I want to say thanks for all you do you really help so many people on MB. A few weeks ago you were willing to drop something off where YD was in FL and not very many people will do that. So count yourself a special person!! By the time you are done with all your school stuff theirs no telling what you'll become...

If you can see it, you can believe it, thats the first step when you see God perform a miracle for somebody crippled in a wheelchair and able to standup and walk out of a wheelchair for the first time, they saw themselves walking oneday. Our WS's crippled us, we come to MB's and we push each other around in our wheelchairs because we were knocked off our feet by d-day, but in time you gotta see yourself walking healthy again oneday, and on your day, you have to "RISE UP AND BE HEALED!!". God will walk you from the place you're at to a new place in life by your Faith! Your Faith can affect your environment and cause doors to open and things to grow and prosper around you. Just as Adam and Eve's Sin even caused the very ground around them to die by there Sin, So can your Faith in God give life to you and things around you.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/17/03 01:12 PM
Hey,
I have never seen this thread on page TWO, kind of a scarey thought that the wisdom and support on this page might not always be here (at least now, for me)... I hope everyone is doing well. We got two inches of snow last night but no ice, yippee. I don't have a lot to say, just wanted to say HAPPY FRIDAY ! ! !
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/17/03 03:36 PM
Good Morning!

EC That was beautiful! I hope you don't mind, I copied that onto my God could, but would He thread.

I will most likely going to Jax around the 22nd or so of February. If there is anything I can do or "see" just let me know. My son goes to school there, so he is always available if needed.

Avaondale Happy Friday to you too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and to everyone else!

God Bless,

D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/17/03 05:16 PM
Good morning all,

Happy Friday to you as well avondale.

This thread hit page two? Hmmmmm... that's not good.

I was down with a flu bug of sorts, but I've bounced back, and I think I might make it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have been involved with helping my "lady friend" move still... the last few days I haven't been able to help her though... I was on my way down with the flu bug, so that kind of put a kink in the game plan as far as moving her to her new place.

I'll be back at it again tonight though, as well as Saturday, and Sunday after Church. I didn't realize she had so much... LOL. I'm glad I didn't have to sell my house... I have about 10 times more stuff than she does.

Ok... where is everyone?

Petvet, relady, come out come out where ever you are.

Dave...

Glad to hear that everything is going well for you and your family.

Have you picked out a new house to move to yet?

EC...

It sounds like you have hooked up with a pretty exciting class. I had a mechanical construction business for 13 yrs. I closed it down because my exW was acting up when she worked in the accounting department. She was in Accounts Payable... only Company or person she paid however was herself for the most part... so I fired her and closed the business down about 6 months after. I decided I would possibly open the business back up after I got the divorce.

Well I'm divorced... and I'm thinking about opening the Company back up again this year. In fact I have a big project that one of the Fortune 100 companies wants me to do. I haven't committed to it yet, but more than likely I will.

WGTT...

Checked your thread... you are getting some good posts on it.

RMA...

Hope everything is well.

Everyone have a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ January 17, 2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/19/03 12:16 AM
Hi Gang!

Looks like everybody jummped ship for the week. Nothing new happening here but a little snow. I've been considering going on this steep hill with a sled that many kids and adults go to but I haven't did it yet, still trying to get my nerves up....

Avondale - Yep, I would say its odd this thread made it to page 2, hasn't happened in a while. I hope everything is going great for you.

WGTT - I didn't mind you posting what I wrote maybe it will encourage somebody. I just never dreamed my life would turn out like it has so far after d-day and the DV, I never realized how much exw controlled me, I'm doing things that were once just dream or fantasy, I was emotionally raised up from the chair after D-day. Yes, I have had my times when it seemed I was nowhere and get discouraged and want to give up. At this point it seems if I have any interaction with exw by mail or phone, it plows me backwards because she hasn't changed, the surface she presents is always nice but underneath is a whole other motive, its like this

PS 55

21 The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords.

She's nice at times only to gain something to her advantage, as you saw she said merry christmas then sends me forms with lies and deceit trying to ask the court to do something illegal to me.

Some say they wouldn't be surprised if she would try to return one day. If that happened it would definitly be this..

Hosea 2

7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now.

However I'm not waiting and stopping my life for that day...Affairs and Adultery are a void internal weakness not strength as the WS's try to make it appear though if they're having fun.

Wallace - That's great you once owned your own busn. I guess oneday I'll find that out.

Ok time to ramble about what I'm trying do:

I have so many things I want to do that I feel I'm just a millionare just waiting to happen. Over the years I learned the diff between greed, rich and wealthy, anybody can get rich and it all blows anyway in the wind, but to be wealthy is a behavior that produces fruit and longivity. I'm at the point I don't need a million dollars to reach that status, I just need $20,000 debt free capital and I will get there only because I've studied and prepared and know what poor is like. So many times you hear what people would do with money if they had it and the talk is focused on diamonds or cars, etc...Well my goal is to turn my city upside down with innovative businesses and new housing. I plan to start in my old neighborhood where I grew up. Talk is cheap these days people want action and the proof.

When I lived in FL the attractions were always the worlds largest this place or that, so therefore I'm eventually going to do that in my city in time, just trying to think outside box a little. I've been away for a few years from the midwest so now that I'm back I can bring some of those things I've seen and learned to my city. I was discouraged lastweek when exw sent me her false claim documents, the D-days, DV and CS was a setback but as you see this is what is in me the emeny wanted to stop, if he can discourage you from your dreams and purpose are then you become uphappy and no longer focused and want give up and sink below who you are and what you have to offer somebody...

The attack our WS's have come under was not all about them, a lot of it was how could the enemy destroy your life by using them. What has God placed in you so great that it took such an emotional blow of betrayal from the enemy to try and steal it??? but yet you're still standing? We have an awesome GOD!! Life is not over but just beginning.....

For those seeking a relationship, don't let it be a Chicken and Pig relationship, meaning......Once upon a time A Pig and a Chicken spent some time together and over time became close and decided they wanted to have a long conversation over breakfast and get to know each other better. Breakfast time came and the table was set with plates, silverware, orangejuice, biscuits and only bacon and eggs were needed on the table. The Chicken said <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> "Here you go Mr. Pig, I placed my egg on the table and there's more where that came from " <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...So the Chicken said ok Mr.Pig we now need some bacon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . The Pig looked down at himself and said <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> " Uh, Well I don't know about this giving stuff that's definitly a sacrifice and committment" sorry I gotta go <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> .

The senerio here : The chicken was stealing eggs from other nest though if it layed them. The Pig wasn't willing to give what it had either when sacrifice and committent time came.

Take Care
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 01/19/03 01:34 AM
Hey, ya'll!!!!

Just thinking of each of you. I am doing a great job of limiting my time on the computer, but, hey you are all still in my htoughts and prayers.

EC, congrats on the course. Anything you can do to hone your skills has got to benefit you in the long run!

Petvet, oh, I shudder to think about the meaning of all this twinkling! But, I am proud you are keeping your hands in your pocket. But, do tell...what kind of interactions are you having with your WS?? Is she talking to you at all or just acting "as if" you two are already divorced? Just curious. When is the final divorce date?

Wallace, Nice of you to help her move. Just keep thing light....remember that!

avondale, yes, file separately. I "helped" my WS by filing jointly even though he had been basically gone that year. I too was worried about the "message" if I didn't do. In the long run, it got me nothing, and I would have saved money filing separately. You know, that one thing won't make the difference in your marriage. Really, it won't.

relady, Hello to you. Enjoy your break.

davepr, glad things continue to go well for you. The house sale and change of scenery will likey do even more good for your marriage.

wgtt, sounds like your support group is really helping you out and I am glad for that. Keep at it! We all need all the positive encouragement and support we can get and from multiple sources.

tmmx., stay with this group. They can offer valuable support and insight to you and your situation.

Best of luck to all! Hugs and kisses, RMA
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 01/19/03 01:35 AM
Hey, ya'll!!!!

Just thinking of each of you. I am doing a great job of limiting my time on the computer, but, hey you are all still in my htoughts and prayers.

EC, congrats on the course. Anything you can do to hone your skills has got to benefit you in the long run!

Petvet, oh, I shudder to think about the meaning of all this twinkling! But, I am proud you are keeping your hands in your pocket. But, do tell...what kind of interactions are you having with your WS?? Is she talking to you at all or just acting "as if" you two are already divorced? Just curious. When is the final divorce date?

Wallace, Nice of you to help her move. Just keep thing light....remember that!

avondale, yes, file separately. I "helped" my WS by filing jointly even though he had been basically gone that year. I too was worried about the "message" if I didn't do. In the long run, it got me nothing, and I would have saved money filing separately. You know, that one thing won't make the difference in your marriage. Really, it won't.

relady, Hello to you. Enjoy your break.

davepr, glad things continue to go well for you. The house sale and change of scenery will likey do even more good for your marriage.

wgtt, sounds like your support group is really helping you out and I am glad for that. Keep at it! We all need all the positive encouragement and support we can get and from multiple sources.

tmmx., stay with this group. They can offer valuable support and insight to you and your situation.

Best of luck to all! Hugs and kisses, RMA
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/19/03 06:55 AM
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I just typed in a long post & lost it!

Wallace Now I know why you asked if I had gone back and read the posts on this thread!
Something had been "tugging" on my mind to go back to where you started and read. No doubt God has been speaking to me to read

Except for some situations changes, your story could be me! The similarities are staggering. You are better at expressing your feeling than I have been but I could say ditto to just about everything.

I''m really tired and going to bed shortly but will continue reading (only got to pg 23) There were some questions I had, but will read more to see if they are answered. You have helped me clarify some issues that have been floating around in my mind. Now that I have asked God what he meant by Let go, there's more, I am receiving the answers from many directions. It's funny that God even answers prayers via the internet!

Right now I am at the place of acceptance. It's time to move on to protect me and the kids. I know it's time. I just KNOW.

To all the others on this thread, Have a good weekend!

God Bless,

D.

<small>[ January 19, 2003, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/19/03 01:12 PM
Hi all!

WGTT: Is Bob Proctor a motivational speaker? Based on what you jave said, he appears to be good.

All: I recently came across a great New Year's resolution list. I will post it next week. It's in my office at work.

Wallace: I hope you are feeling better. Moving is the one chore that will break your back. It's nice that you are helping her.

All: It's amazing that most of us have entreprenurial mindsets. Just odd!

Avondale: I don't pity you for the weather you have to deal with because I hate cold weather. Boy, my hands are freezing again typing. See what I mean.

EC: You made alot of good points. I always take the verses you have lists and read them in the bible. The resolution list coincides with some of the things the verses addressed.

Me: I had to change kid's visitation schedule because w had to transfer to another department. When I tried to compromise with w, she once again called me a non Christian and that she needed a job, so she could pay me cs. She was shouting and I asked her why she was angry at me when I had agreed to her terms, she said that I make her angry and cause her to shout. She threatened to take me to court and to get her attorney after me. My attorney told me that I don't have to change anything if I don't want but I can try to accommodate her if it did not inconvenience me too much. I am awaiting a court date as we speak. I have a new judge since the other judge retired. I should have had a date by (my hands are frooze) now but the new court clerk messed up and did not put case on the docket. I should have a date by next Friday. You are right EC everytime I speak to w,it brings me down a couple of notches.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/19/03 01:52 PM
WGTT - I have been lurking in your "Will/Would God..." thread, lots of interesting posts there! And it raises some good questions, too. I've never heard of Bob Proctor, though. Are you still going to keep your lawyer's appointment at the end of the month, with the job changes your H is experiencing? Have you had any luck about confirming "under the table" income?

DavePR - I think moving would only facilitate healing in your marriage - new location, new memories...and you won't be in the same old rooms that remind you of old hurts. Is your new job position going well? Not too much change, I hope.

Petvet - Give me your address, cuz I'm going to send you $50 for a new ceramic space heater so your fingers won't be "frooze" LOL. That is too bad the court clerk forgot to put you on the docket; let us know when your date is so we can pray more effectively. Don't let your W get you down! It sounds like you are trying to accommodate her as best you can given the circumstances.

Relady - Where are you? I miss your posts! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RMA - Great to hear from you - twice in one hour, er...day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Making up for lost time, I guess, LOL. Based on numerous opinions, including yours, Petvet's, and others, I will probably file separately and just not tell my H. He usually files in the fall, real late anyway, since he has his own business and income from numerous sources.

EC - I appreciated your post but the part about the chicken and pig made me laugh out loud. I don't know that I had ever heard that one. And you are really using those smileys, too. We're still waiting for Petvet to use them! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The attack our WS's have come under was not all about them, a lot of it was how could the enemy destroy your life by using them. What has God placed in you so great that it took such an emotional blow of betrayal from the enemy to try and steal it??? but yet you're still standing? We have an awesome GOD!! Life is not over but just beginning.....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is true and to be honest, I had never thought of it in that way. I have to say that in my case, since my H was a leader in our church, he succumbed to the lies of the enemy and gave in to them. So I think my part in this mess is secondary to the fact that he was the first casualty. You are totally right though - we are now in a test and battle ourselves (whether we were the intended "victim" or not), because what happens to them affects us in our walk. I am happy to say I still have my joy!

Wallace - moving, huh? I had typed a cute comment <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> but decided to delete it, LOL. That's nice that you are so helpful. Are you still in contact with your OD? Any change there?

Hope I didn't miss anybody...have a great week!

<small>[ January 19, 2003, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/20/03 05:40 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a great weekend.

No, I haven't dropped off the face of the earth. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have a close friend whose husband decides to leave her after 15 years, saying he should have never married her and didn't love her. Needless to say she is devastated. And besides that, they just adopted a small child 2 years ago. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Is there some type of epidemic? Why do they all say the same thing? Could all the WS's be from the same planet and we're the normal ones?

Between that and work, I've been exhausted.

WGTT, EC

I have read material by Bob Proctor. During the year 2001 I had a business coach who used a lot of his material. That coach costs $300 per month, however; my business increased at least 50% and still growing. It takes about 18 months for you to actually change your mindset. Once you start thinking success, your mind works overtime to bring you back to a comfortable situation(failure). It becomes very difficult to focus, especially with a WS in your life.

Avondale,

I'm still here, I read, just not always able to respond. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> How are things with you?

Petvet,

Waiting on your answer to RMA. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace,

Glad to see you're feeling better. Did your 'ladyfriend' get moved OK? Did she give back the leather coat yet? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ME

Just a question....How did you (all) deal with not having companionship while you were seperated? Were your Ws's ever out of your thoughts? Sometimes I feel like I don't want to wait on God, I just want to get a divorce and move on. I realize that's a sign of impatience. but, when does it stop? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Davepr, RMA

I hope all is well

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/21/03 06:13 AM
Hi Gang!

Hope everyone is doing well!! It's good 'ol Monday!

Relady - I'm sorry can you refresh me on your story when and what happened? What is WH doing right now,etc..? After a while you forget the details.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/20/03 09:26 PM
Hi All,

I just had a nice long post (what's new?) and it said I wasn't logged on, so I couldn't post... even though I was sitting there looking at my name showing I was indeed logged on. Long story short... I lost it all.

relady...

My heart goes out to you, as I know the feelings your going through all too well.

I think that all of the infidelity that is going on in this country is becoming an epidemic.

To try to answer your question that you posted. For me... during my whole process I leaned on God, more than at any other time in my life. I prayed, and prayed, and prayed... sometimes for hours on end... day and night. I asked him to please lead me... lead me to wherever he wanted to take me. I listened... and I followed.

I also became very involved in my children's lives, Church groups, divorce group, family and friends, as well as these boards.

I became so active in all of the above... it left little time to think about what was, and what was about to become.
Did it take all the pain and thoughts of my exW away... no... it did not. In fact... I still think about my exW to this day. There is not a day that goes by that I don't think about her. Some days are better than others... but I still think of what our lives could of been... had she communicated with me.

God however, had put it into my heart that my marriage was over and it was time to move on. Of course I fought it every step of the way for quite some time... but eventually I learned to listen to what was being put into my heart. I decided to do the right thing... I ended the M. It was a very long and a very painful ordeal. I never want to go through it ever again, and I pray to God daily to spare me and my family anymore pain that may be delivered to us via my exW.

You will know what your next move is... there will be no doubt in your mind about whether your M can be salvaged or not. The lord will lead you where he wants you to go... as long as you put your full faith and trust in "Him".

Do you ever stop thinking about the WS?
For me... at this point... the answer is no.
Do I think about her as often as I use to... no... it gets better with time.
She will always have a place in my heart... I was married to her for almost 24 yrs. You don't just erase that overnight... I don't think anyone can... not even the WS.
IMHO, the good Lord, and time will heal, and only time will tell. Patience is virtue... especially now.

It's a very difficult road your on... your still standing, Praise God! No matter what the outcome... you will make it.
Surround yourself with the word, like minded friends, and family and you will be O.K...

We are here for you too relady. We all care, and we want nothing but the best for you... don't ever forget that.

EC...

Great scriptures, and what a great story about the chicken and the pig... I never heard that one. How sad, that in many situations, that story applies.

You have noble goals at hand... don't ever lose sight of them... you will fullfill them as long as you always keep those goals in mind and never waiver.

Enhancing your education can never hurt... your on the right road... stay the course.

WGTT...

There is a lot of reading to do on this thread. I think reading War and Peace might take less time.

Of course I think the reading of this thread is of better value... but that's just my opinion. I'm glad that God is directing you, and your allowing him to lead you to where he wants you to be. You can't go wrong if you stick with the Lord.

Even though the names. faces, and times are different concerning what we have all been through and are still going through... bottom line is... it is all so very similar when you get right down to it... it's scary.

RMA...

It's good to hear from you and I hope everything is going well in your life.

I'm trying to keep things light. Every once in awhile it feels like it's trying to speed back up again... but I know where that brake pedal is... LOL

Petvet...

It sounds like you have got yourself a handful going on there.

I know your coming up to the final court date (whenever the courts decide to get their act together), and you have been through as much as anyone... my prayers will be with you.

I would try to accommodate your W as much as possible on the visitation schedule (as hard as that may be). You don't want to keep going back to Court over, and over again... it just starts taking it's toll on you.

Dave

A change in venue is a great move... it can't do anything but help your recovery in your M get better.
Keep up the good work.

avondale...

O.K., you know I'm going to bug you about what your cute little comment was that you deleted off the post was. Come on now... go ahead and put it up there for all to see. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm going to keep badgering you until you do... LOL.

I spoke with my OD about 2 weeks ago. She calls and talks with my YD every so often, so at least she is staying in touch somewhat.

ME...

Well we finished moving my "lady friend" last night at about 8:00 p.m.

Wow!!!! I'm glad that's over with... It didn't look like she had that much stuff... but she had truck full after truck full. I thought it would never end.

Well I'm getting ready to file contempt of court papers against my exW... probably next month.

I wanted to wait until the dust settled a bit (does it ever settle?), before I started up with all the fun and games associated with that wonderfulness.

LET THE GAMES BEGIN!!!

Hope everyone has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/21/03 12:39 AM
Hey Relady ,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just a question....How did you (all) deal with not having companionship while you were seperated? Were your Ws's ever out of your thoughts? Sometimes I feel like I don't want to wait on God, I just want to get a divorce and move on. I realize that's a sign of impatience. but, when does it stop </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought Wallace 's answer was very insightful. You & I might be at similar places, Relady. Right now I lack for companionship, as most of my (formerly our) friends are married and have their own married lives going on. I'm not looking to get involved in any singles group cuz I'm not single. (Our church is fairly small so there isn't a true singles group going on anyway.) I am trying to stay out of my daughter's life so she can enjoy her first year of wedded bliss without having a rejected mom pestering her, LOL. So I've gone out a few times with a couple of single women my age from church but that has been few and far between. Since what happened to me hasn't really happened to anyone in our entire circle of friends, I think no one is sure how to relate to me. (A lesson for me if the shoe is ever on the other foot, so to speak.)

I also think of my husband EVERY DAY, several times a day, sometimes for a LONG time (up to an hour). "What ifs" predominate my thoughts. At this point I can't imagine ever wanting to be with a different guy again so I am content to die an old maid! The only time I think about not waiting and rushing for a divorce is after I have had a bad interaction with H (last time was Jan.5) and it doesn't last long.

So I REALLY look forward to hearing from all the others on this thread - they've been through it longer and have MUCH more wisdom to share...especially some of the guys here who have twinkles and lady friends! Oh, and RMA could really answer this perfectly from a woman's point of view. WE NEED HER HERE!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/21/03 02:03 AM
Ok Relady just to give my 2 cents on the subject.

I have female friends, had female friends during seperation. The friends I have are generic friends, meaning there is no romance involved, no cards, generic emails, no dinner dates, just phone buddys, no crying on there shoulder but do discuss what I or her has been through. If I see them its in a group setting. If I were seeking reconciliation with my WS, I would ask can this new friend be a part of me and my WS relationship if there was a restoration, would my mate befriend them and trust them later. For me boundries were set from the start. They tell me the dates they go out on etc...we have no obligations..

I think about my exww often of how things might be if we were together, she may still love me, I don't know...She may think of me everyday, I don't know? Since her mother was married 7 times and her dad 5, she probably will just continue on like nothing happened, that's what was modeled in front of her, where as I had my original parents and saw you work it out.

On the flip side to answer your question in humor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I will admitt when it comes to my female friends because I'm not interested in nothing right now, I am definitly Mr Pig, Ain't no woman getting my Bacon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I know, I'm a Ham, but they can't have that either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Oink, Oink!!

Take Care
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/21/03 05:20 PM
Hi Gang!

YD called me lastnight and she opened up for the first time. It started out first by asking how everything was going, she said fine, I asked anything new happening?nope, school ok? yep, So I said everything is just peachy and you've done nothing new since lasttime I talked to you? she, nope, nothing new. I then said you know, I'm here for you whenever you need me and remember if you ever want to talk you don't have to hold in any secrets, I said you remember that was always my open door policy that you never have to hide anything and feel free to talk about it, right? I said I'm your dad but I'm your friend to.

I then ask her, I said, do you know why come I left the home?? she said no. I said do you think I purposely walked out on you and OD? No. She said she has a foggy idea why but not sure but she knew there were problems and things happening between me and exw.

I then told her some of what happened and none of my leaving was directed at her or OD. I then gave her some positive advice how to be an overcomer of adversity. She then opened up and began to tell me what she was going through around the house. She said dad, I don't understand, I started working part-time and now MOM takes every dime I get, I have to buy groceries, she asks for 10% of my money for the house, I have to pay for my own school lunch, I pay for my own laundry and by the time I do all that, I have no money, now I'm not saying mom is a bad person but what is it with this money thing that she trys to get as much from you as she can? Why is she so money hungry??I understand if I was 18 and out of HS or something living at home and working full time, I'm just 17 a Jr in HS just $200 a month, I just wanted to work to save my money for starting comm college and now I can't have no fun or money, my money is gone before I get paid and then Mom is making me pay a phonebill from grandpa's house [exw's dad] from when I was 13 years old stating I ran up the phonebill to $1,000,(YD stayed there one summer for 3 weeks) mom paid him already with her bonus money but I have to pay her back, I admit I did some calls but I'm having a hard time accepting I did all that, mom showed me a phonebill and some is true but some I don't think all is mine, other people lived there and now I have to pay for that too, I'm ready to quit working because all this is just to much, I'm also quiting to because when a customer urinates on the floor and trash the bathrooms they always make me go clean it up while other people go talk on the phone, out smoking, out playing, lots of favortism.

Well after all that my heart went out to her and YD said I'm not saying all this because mom is a bad person, I just don't understand this money hungry thing with Mom. I told YD I understood and told her how much I pay in CS and a little of what I'm going through with the greed of CS. I asked YD what she cooked for dinner, she sneekered, said are you serious? What? We haven't cooked a meal around this house in months, it's been a long time dad, it's every person for himself, theres no groceries anyway, we eat fastfood everyday, the only time that stove gets turned on if somebody cooks french fries...I said wow! I told YD I cook all the time full meals for me, then she remembered I did all the cooking in the house when I was there and I guess took all those qualities with me and other things I did. That was one of my complaints about exww she when she complained about weight but yet never cooked and bought fastfood on the days I decided not to cook, I guess it continued, If I took 2 weeks off she bought fastfood for 2 weeks.

I know some of what YD is going through is growing pains, growing up but then lots of it is unnecessary and a lot is the results and lifestyle of a WW. The phonebill issue is new to me, that was never brought to my attention 4 years ago, I'm surprized they would hold this against YD 4 years later and create in her a mentality of poverty and debt, $1,000 feels like $10,000 having less than $200 a month to work with. I understand taking responsibilty and learning, but holding something against you when you were 13? I feel there are other ways to resolve the issue. I told YD if she came with me her money is hers, I can run the house alone and if she came she would have her own business, and we'd pick up in her career path where we left off before all these A's and DV. More than anything YD/OD is coming under the same money attack I'm coming under from Exww. Greed!...

It's amazing Exww hasn't changed...YD said she still has same OM but he doesn't live there. Can you imagine you're married and while in the same house same bed your W has an A and becomes commited to someone else after 21 years like you were never married prior? I don't understand how a person can do that and go about there merry way. She swung from one vine to the next without ever touching the ground. Amazing
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/21/03 05:25 PM
Hi all,

As far as companionship goes... I waited till after my divorce was final before I stepped up to the plate.

I met with people of the oppisite sex, only in a group setting (Church, divorce group, etc.). Didn't really think about how lonely I was... I had too much going on to really stop and think about it.

My "lady friend" and I had hit it off about 2 months before my D was final... but I never pursued it, until my divorce was final.

It's kind of funny avondale, my "lady friend" thought and said that she could never imagine ever finding or dating another man. She envisioned herself just growing old and being single for the rest of her life. Then I popped into her life... she isn't saying that anymore.

We both know that we are not trying to replace what was. I will not try to take the place of her exWH... and she knows that she will not take the place of my exWW.

Hopefully we can build a very strong and trusting relationship as good friends, that may lead to more... who knows what God has in store for us? Only time will tell.

One thing of many that I have learned through all of this... is patience. Not because I wanted to... I had to, and needed to... in order to make it through all of this.

Ironically, it's still not over with. I'm sure I will be dealing with the aftermath for sometime to come.

Petvet...

You know... now that you mention it... we all do have entrepreneurial (sp?) skills. Do you think there may be some sort of a connection?

Hope everyone has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/22/03 06:03 AM
Hi All,

Hope you're having a great day.

You guys are Soooo Awesome. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am so proud to be a part of this 'thread'.

Yesterday was one of my 'not so good days', their coming less, although; still coming. I think it's because all of a sudden 'walk aways' and 'infidelity' is all around. I asked the Lord to use me to help other women in the same situation. I had no idea I personally knew so many. From clients to personal friends, it's incredible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

For me, I can't understand why my 'H' doesn't just get a divorce and be done with it. I haven't seen or heard from him in almost 7 months now, so what is the delay? Oh Well!

EC

Your 'W' seems to be straight from the 'pit' I'm surprised your YD didn't express a desire to come live with you, not that her mother would allow it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't understand how a person can do that and go about there merry way. She swung from one vine to the next without ever touching the ground. Amazing </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whether you realize it or not, she actually slammed into the ground, she just hasn't realized it yet. Hence, the term 'walking wounded' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

I don't believe for one minute that you'll end up an 'old maid'. LOL We can't let the men on this thread out do us now can we? Anyway when I was little, I used to cheat so I could avoid getting the 'old maid' card. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Come on Avondale, let's think Convertible <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Wallace

I guess the key is to keep busy, right? I just hate the quiet moments. When this is over, I'll have the patience of Job!

Davepr, RMA, WGTT

Hope all is well.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/21/03 07:23 PM
EC -It is wonderful that a door opened up for you to talk so candidly to your YD. Now she will tell your OD, and they will both know that their situation has a lot to do with your exww's greed. They'll compare notes and you'll come out on top! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Hopefully they will be with you in the not too distant future...I am praying towards that for you.

Wallace - so maybe I should just hold my tongue, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Not say anything that might come back to bite me later, LOL

Relady - OK, I'll think convertible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> But I still want to hear RMA's response to your question!

Petvet - are you slammed with tax stuff?? Or maybe you froze in your office...we need a frozen face for you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Since there have been many posts about entire posts or words being eaten by the MB bugs, I am now typing on Word Perfect and then copy and pasting to MB. My week is going great so far, hope everyone else's is too.

<small>[ January 21, 2003, 01:25 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/21/03 07:52 PM
Hi again,

EC...

We must of cross posted. I just finished reading your post, and by the sounds of it... your YD maybe ready to come live with you by the sounds of it. Have you given any thought about asking her to come live with you?
Their household at this point doesn't sound like it's healthy a enviroment to be in.

Your exW sounds and acts very much like mine. My exW use to borrow money from my kids as well and never pay them back. I would reimburse them... and at the same time tell them not to give their mother anymore money. ExW went through money like water. the sixty four thousand dollar question is... what did she do with all the money she received and stole?

IMHO, I would give serious consideration to your daughter moving in with you. Your daughter is old enough to make her own decisions without the influence of your exW hanging above her head.

Stay in contact with her as often as you can... that will help build the relationship for you two evenmore.

relady...

I'm with you... I never realized how much infidelity was going on as well as walk away spouses until it happened to me. It is epidemic in proportion... it's a sad commentary to our society as a whole. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Petvet, RMA, Dave, and WGTT...

Hope your day is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/22/03 12:57 PM
Hi all!

Relady: Let me give my 1/2 of a cent on your question. Even I file for d, I held out hopes that w and i would reconcile. At the time, I was going through sessions with Harley. I kept thinking to myself whether I had done everything i could to save my marriage. He recommended that i drop my case and see what w would do. Well, i waited around Valentine's Day to drop suit and i sent her flowers. Well, when she found out that i had dropped my suit, she called me and blessed me out and she told me to never send her flowers again. She refile a suit against me three or four days later. That was the defining momemt for me. At that point, I knew i had done everything i could. Since then, I have been focused on taking care of business. Keep in mind that i was still wearing my wedding ring during all of this. Well, one day i said to myself why am i still committing myself to someone who probably wishes that i was hit my a truck or something, so I took off my ring and put it in a safe place. This was back in September or October. That was real hard for me to do that but i have made it through the difficulties. I was going through all this, but my w started taking her ring off a year and a half before she left. The marriage meant nothing to her. She was just fronting for her parents. My guess is that you and Avondale are at that defining moment where you physically cut the cord. Please keep in mind that the emotional bond takes months if not years to cut. It is like a death in the family but worst. As I told you two in previous posts, you must stay proactive as to where you are in this process,or you will go crazy. I think about my w several times a day, but I have to deal with reality. As Dr. Laura says, we have to go through this dark period to get through light. We have to make a decision as to whether we will stay down or not. As far as other relationships are concern, we must stay committed to the institution of marriage until it ends. There is nothing wrong with talking to folks of the opposite sex, but we must refrain from intimate actions because that would make us no better than our ws. I am very particular as to what people i choose to interact with because not everyone can deal with a friend going through d. I am leery of going to a d group because i don't want to be around winers. I would rather be around folks who will take responsibility for their short comings and become proactive to better their situation. Don't get me wrong, i know their are some good groups out there, but sometimes groups become a session of complaining.

EC: As I have said before, your exw is a piece of work. Hitting your d for major bucks and using a old phone bill to drain more money from d is classic. YOU KNOW WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO. CUSTODY!

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/22/03 05:41 PM
Hi Everyone

Petvet - Thats good how you progressed through the stages, I know its been heartbreaking but you did the right things. I definitly agree about don't jump to early in a decision on meeting OP, its not necessarily you you have to worry about its them, they can make more of a relationship than what it was intended to be when your motive was something totally different, then you're in a mess. Many WS's affairs started with innocents and many intentional when sober time comes you can tell.

Relady - I don't know what happen to exw, its sad, but at the same time she knows she's in the pit.

Avondale - Thanks for praying, bless and it shall return unto you, none of your prayers will go in vain.

Wallace - That environment is odd, but YD/OD won't know it until they get out of it and see what the norm is again. I'm amazed that exw lifestyle is having an affect on her money, you can't live a life of adultery and not see some negative affect of it, God is merciful but its still a reap what you sow principle. My exw is involved with 5 incomes hers, mine, YD/OD and her side business yet it all blows away like she has nothing and all the verse below is asking is to consider your ways. My sister told me I would see the CS money blow through exw hands because it was obtained for the wrong motive and going to a house ruled by deception.

The Lord likes us to build a house that he can take pleasure in and exhibit you before everyone because you glorify him. Can you imagine the Lord's presence in your home daily? I experienced that before when things were going great between me and exw so I know its possible..

A Sandcastle is not the kind of house the Lord builds or dwells in. If we consider our ways no telling how blessed we can be. I'm sure God speaks to my exww about considering her ways and try his, its so simple, why have your money blowed upon when you don't have to? A change of heart makes all the diff in the world.

Hag 1

Consider your ways. 6 Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes. 7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways. 8 Go up to the mountain, and bring wood, and build the house; and I will take pleasure in it, and I will be glorified, saith the LORD. 9 Ye looked for much, and, lo, it came to little; and when ye brought it home, I did blow upon it. Why? saith the LORD of hosts. Because of mine house that is waste, and ye run every man unto his own house. 10 Therefore the heaven over you is stayed from dew, and the earth is stayed from her fruit.

Me: YD called my niece 16 lastnight, neice wasn't home, YD said she'll call back later. Neice called me and ask if I had a number so she could call YD she was excited they haven't talked since 2000 eventhough they are buddys. Neice said she was really going to push for YD to come, I was happy and surprised, I never talked to neice about that, yet she knows they're suffering. My neice is living the life my YD/OD should be, but they're under exw's control. My neice is 16 in HS doing Intern Dental College work, getting her hands dirty before she actually starts school. I'm sure she will challenge YD to get started with her medical school stuff. My sisters, aunts,etc..can't wait to shower YD/OD with love, welcomes and gifts, however YD/OD have been influenced by exw everybodys against them, but God is tearing down that wall, they are about to walk out of Pharaohs camp.

Just when you are ready to walk out of something thats had you bound and controlled if it be debt, a habit, in an Adulterous relationship, an abusive person the Pharaoh of that thing will speak and say to discourage you and take away your hope, but you are coming out and you know it.

Ex 14

3 For Pharaoh will say of the children of Israel, They are entangled in the land, the wilderness hath shut them in.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/23/03 06:09 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone is making it a great day.

Petvet

I wish I could get that much in the 'real world' for 1/2 a cent. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think mostly on my part, I have a tendency to get impatient. Not so much from the intimacy stand point, but more like 'loose ends' in my life.

For instance, right now I can't purchase another home because he would have to give me a 'quitclaim' saying he has no interest in the property which is very unlikely. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Because I live in a community property state.

If I were to contact my 'H' he probably would have the same reaction as your 'W' or he would do the reverse and enjoy that I was pursuing him.

As far as doing all I could to save my marriage, yes, I did. If you do everything you can while they are living with you and they still leave without so much as a glance backwards. IMHO, there is nothing further that can be done.

"a mind changed against it's will is of the same opinion still"

I have no remorse, my heart is clear. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Not that I don't think about him everyday, however; not enough to consider taking him back in the condition in which he left. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

God bless all,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/22/03 08:38 PM
Relady </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have no remorse, my heart is clear. Not that I don't think about him everyday, however; not enough to consider taking him back in the condition in which he left. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You brought up something that I had wrestled with for a while, until I got a clear answer for myself...What would I do if H wanted to get back together but he was still the same person (this new unknown alien, not the one I married)? Would I be committed (by God and my conscience) to get back together? Possibly to work on our marriage? I certainly don't want to be "unequally yoked" however, what would my obligation be? Where does I Corinthians 7 come into play?? Anyway, I decided on my own that I do NOT want to go back to what was....I will only accept the BEST which is a sold out, born-again man of God, LOL. So if I get back with hubby, he'd better be changed back to who he was when we got married! Otherwise, I'm content with my status quo <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ January 22, 2003, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/22/03 11:06 PM
Hi All Again!

Avondale

IMHO, I don't believe they would comeback the same way. I would hope that through our prayers for them, they will have changed. Also, when their heart is changed, we have to make sure that when and if they do come back, we are not the same person. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I, like you will only accept the best and if God says take him back, then he will either be the best or well on his way to becoming the best. Either way I will know the difference.

And until then, I'm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> LOL

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/23/03 09:13 AM
Hi all!

Just a couple of shorts.

Relady & Avondale: If your men decide to come back and you accept them back, you must make sure that they committed to change for the betterment of the marriage. From your end, once you accept them back, you cannot hold anything over their heads, either. You guys are in limbo right now as I am. At some point, being in limbo becomes a problem and a liability.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/23/03 07:29 PM
Hi All,

EC...

I think there is some commonality with ex-spouses and their spending habits.

They feel like they are in a fantasy world already... so they manage the rest of their lives in the same vain... especially when it comes to money.

The WS do in fact reap what they sow. I'm a firm believer of the old saying... "What goes around... comes around.

Keep those lines of communication up with your YD/OD and just maybe you will be able to show them that a stable enviroment is available to them if they wish to pursue it.

relady and avondale...

Indeed... neither of you are the same person any longer. What has happened in your lives changed all that.

Not only did you both change, but your spouses changed as well. You two are changing for the better, and are working to better yourselves. Can that be said about your spouses? At this point in time... they probably haven't changed for the better in any way shape or form. If and when they do... you will know it.

Until that time comes... keep working on bettering yourselves and your lives as well... which I know you are both doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The key... is try to stay as active as you possibly can with things you enjoy doing. Idle time... can be brutal... at least it was for me.
I always had something going on... I even listened to talk radio when I would go to bed at night. That was my way of not letting my mind think about what was going on. I prayed all the time as well, and immersed myself in scripture.

I admire both of you... you both have come a long way... and your getting stronger as each day passes. You may not feel that way at times... but trust me... you are.

relady, You know something? My "lady friend" hasn't given me the coat I gave her for X-mas back yet. What's up with that? LOL

Avondale, Never say never... I don't want you to eat your words... LOL

Oh, by the way... what was it that you deleted on your one post? Thought I forgot about that...Huh? LOL

Petvet...

I agree with your statement about being in Limbo.
It's almost as bad as D-Day, on the other hand IMHO, I think its just as bad.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/24/03 04:31 AM
Hello everyone on this thread ....

There are some great discussions going on here. I wish that I had the right now to read them, but I am chaufer extroidinaire right now. It's pretty overwelming driving D to all her classes, some 25-30 miles away! She had been involved in a car accident & cant drive the rental car.

I am keeping the appmt with the attorney on the 31st. There may be more severe consequences of WH's actions than I thought. Filing will just help stop some of the damage, some it wont protect. I can't go into a lot on that subject right now.

It's been overwelming the last few days with all that I have had to do, cope with, and attempt to keep a peace about myself so that I can keep a clear head to make the best possible decisions.

Right now, I feel like my M is over. WH is so far down the (wrong) path it's not even funny. It really hurts to be goind in this direction but it hurts more to stay. 22 years is a long time & I've known him for 27 years.

The bad part is that there are so many "issues" , financial, business and otherwise that have to been gone thruough. It wont be an easy road as the reprocussions will last years and that's not even considering emotions.

The other day, I was thinking about this thread, and it does seem like a lot of entrepreneurs here. I like this thread & still have lots to read to catch up with everything. Maybe someone should make an audio book so that it could be listened to in car! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

relady I am ready for the convertible in sunny Florida! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

ec That is great that you are able to talk to your D's about what has happened. A flood gate may be opening! It's like the guy who held his finger in the dike. After a while it gave way and all the water flowed out.

wallace In looking back over your posts, you talked about getting a lien on your house & didn't know it. How does that work? We just refinanced so I know WH hasn't done anything but just curious.

It's also interesting that your XW was "sober" for 12 years. Actually there is a difference between sobriety and being dry. Did she go to a 12 step program during that time?

Thank you for the idea to have all the money WH has taken out of ATM's and not really accounted for it to be part of what he would have recieved in the settlement!

Tampa Bay some day?

Good night to all and GO TAMPA BAY

d.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/24/03 04:36 PM
Good Morning everyone,

WGTT...

The lien on my house came compliments of my exW filing for bankruptcy.

Since her name was also on (now my house) the house at the time she filed bankruptcy (without me knowing about it). The Bankruptcy Court filed a lien against the house in order to secure payment for her creditors based on the equity that the house had accumulated.

Long story short... I had to pay $10,000.00 to the courts to have the lien removed from my house to satisfy her creditors, based on her percentage of ownership and equity of the house. ExW didn't pay a dime, or make any attempt to rectify the situation.

In regards to my exW being sober versus dry for the time she stopped drinking. I think in looking back at it all... I personally believe she was a closet alchoholic for a very long time. I really don't think she ever quit drinking... there may have been drugs involved as well. I just wasn't able to pick-up on it. She was very good at deception. She went to AA for about a couple of months and then stopped. She said she didn't need it... because she wasn't an alchoholic. It was an uphill battle from there.

Since my football team is in the AFC West (Go Broncos... I don't see that happening anytime soon) I'm going to have to put my money on the Raiders... as much as I dislike Al Davis.

Raiders by a field goal... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hope everyone has a great day and a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: FeelingAllAlone Re: Tough Love - 01/24/03 10:30 PM
Hi everyone I've been spending the last few hours reading allthe replys on this thread,outstanding advice. I have a question, I am in the middle stages of my divorce with my W. She has left me for Best Friend. I wasn't meeting her EN and when I have come out of my "fog" in the marriage she already moved on.

My W is nice to me all the time. She is always upbeat when I come to get our children wether BF is there or not. She always has positive things to say about the kids and appears extremely happy. I have a hard time with Plan A when I see her acting so happy.

How do I continue on with this? She hasn't once considered any counseling or reconciliation. She is happy with what she has and does not want to come back. The kids and I are a mess. Now today the house has been sold so I have 45 days to move out and find a new place to live. I hit rock bottom and she is flying as high as a kite. I dont know if she is hurting inside and wont show it or she really is this happy.

The divorce is so amiclable it's sickening. She doesn't want hardly anything just the child support she is due and half of the house proceeds. I do not have an issue with any of that I want to provide for our children as best I can. It's just that its been 5 months sense I found out about the affair and she has moved out when I found out. She constantly says that she doesn't want to see me hurt and only wishes that I move on with my life. After 14 years with her, she is making this sound like a business transaction and not a marriage.

I have to see her twice a week and BF at work at least 3 times a week. I'm finding a hard time to stay in Plan A and would like to know if she feels she has her cake and eat it too or should I start moving into Plan B? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/26/03 05:37 AM
Hi all!

FeelingAllAlone: Firstly, welcome to the thread, I'm sorry to hear about your marital problems. After reading your post, the first question I have is why are you not going for custody of your kids? Or, do you want custody? She was the one who left the marital home not you. I know that you and your kids are hurting. The WS usually act like your wife until they hit rock bottom, but as long as they are in the fog, they think they have done the right thing. Buddy, you are being too nice. I guarantee you that if you turn up the heat on her, she will not be calm and collective. I would advise that you get counseling for you and the kids to work through issues about the separation. Why did you sell the house so quickly?Do you have an attorney? I think you have been set up friend. It's nice to have a Plan A if it is working and also if you can carry it through; however, I don't think Plan A is in order in your case at this point. I would implement a Plan B. She has yet to experience any consequences for her actions. You don't have to be mean to your WS to not give in to their weems. Your situation is going too too fast in my opinion. I would be interested in hearing from some of the other folks on the thread to see what they advise for you. You seem like a nice fellow who has been walked over and stumped in the ground by your WS. Your w must get the message that it is not business as usual. Please don't tell me that you are still calling your bestfriend a friend. With a friend like him, who needs an enemy. Guy, I think you are being too nice which is why you are being so torn inside because your guts tell you that you are going against the grain. Rethink how you are doing things and your priorities especially your kids and most importantly, I would pay another visit with my attorney. Please keep in mind that you need to go for the gusto while you can because having second thoughts later about custody will be too late and will cost alot of money. I'm not trying to make you feel worst than you already are feeling but I think you need to reconsider how you are handling things. You are being too nice which may have cause you to overlook many of your legal and moral rights.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/26/03 07:24 PM
FAA,
I agree with Petvet. As I responded in your other "Plan A" thread, things seem to have moved VERY quickly for you. I know different states have different laws but you don't have to roll over and play dead. If you don't move to protect yourself, your assets, and your custody privileges now, then later it may be too late. I say this mainly due to the speedy nature of your situation.

By protecting yourself it does NOT mean you are against reconciliation or not wanting to work on your marriage. Your wife is acting like every other WS on the planet and that means she is NOT rational to a normal way of thinking. She rationalizes her own actions from a skewed point of view (i.e., the fog). You said she won't go to counseling, so maybe Petvet is right and Plan B is in order. But protect yourself first, before implementing it.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/27/03 05:16 PM
Hello Everyone,

FAA...

Ditto to what Petvet and avondale have stated.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She constantly says that she doesn't want to see me hurt, and only wishes that I would move on with my life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMHO, she is a walking contradiction in terms, based on that statement. She doesn't want to see you hurt so she won't feel so guilty about what she has done to you and your children. In other words... she likes everything about the arrangement she has currently going. If she could get you to move on with your life... then her guilt would most probably subside. She is most defintely a "cake eater".

If I recall... the Harley's state that you are not suppose to continue for an extended period of time in plan A... if the affar continues, and nothing changes. Plan A is Primarily for you... not her.

When you are at the stage of having your "LB" depleted to nothing... then you may want to move into plan B. It sounds like you may be at that stage.

It also sounds like all of you work at the same place... correct me if I'm wrong.

In order to protect yourself from anymore pain and anguish, and after you have worked a good plan A. (which it appears that you have). I would go to plan B.

Keep in mind Plan B. is very risky, and there are no guarantees that it will improve your situation, but the course you are on is one that more than likely will end up with a D.

Stay in close touch with your attorney, and get as much as you can in writing... seperation agreement, custody, etc. Don't just roll over and be "Mr Nice Guy", thinking that it may make your WS think twice about the "D" and what she is doing and what she has done... it very seldom works out that way.

The out of sight out of mind concept can be a double edge sword. It will either make her rethink what she has done, or she may be perfectly content to go her merry way.

"Tough Love" is a very drastic measure... make sure your ready for whatever consequenses it may bring. I recommend reading up on the "Tough Love" concept by Dr. Dobson.

I'm sorry to hear of what is going on in your life, as it is one of the most painful experiences, if not the most painful experience you will ever go through.

Keep us informed, as many of us have traveled the road you are now on.

Me...

Well I had a very interesting weekend. On Saturday... I had an electrical fire in my house. A dimmer switch in my family room decided to let go, and burn up. Luckily I was home. Did about $3,000.00 worth of damage.

The ironic part is... none of the fuses blew... smoke alarm didn't go off, (I checked it and it works). It appears that my 110 volt outlets and switches magically went from 110 volts to 220 volts. Electrician said he never seen anything like it before. So now... I have to have one side of my house rewired. One of my computers at home got toasted as well... surge protecter didn't work... go figure. So it's been an interesting weekend.

Hope everyone else had a better week than I did.

Have a a great day everybody.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/28/03 06:50 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone is well.

FAA

Sorry to hear about your situation, however; welcome to MB. You have come to the right 'thread' for the best information.

I agree with the others. Your situation is moving very fast.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now today the house has been sold so I have 45 days to move out and find a new place to live. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've only sold your home 3 days ago and that can be changed in a couple of ways depending on the State you're in. In California:

1. If you haven't opened escrow yet, or signed acceptance at the bottom of the deposit receipt, you can still change your mind.

2. When the buyer has the property inspection and gives you a list of things to do, you can refuse, which cancels the contract if the buyer wants repairs done.

I guess my question is, 'Why did you agree to sell so soon?'

Sellers change their minds all the time without penalty. Check with your agent.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hit rock bottom and she is flying as high as a kite </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe me, once you start to see your situation clearly, you will see that that statement is totally reversed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace

Sorry to hear about your fire, Glad you're OK though. So much for surge protectors!

God Bless All,
relady
Posted By: FeelingAllAlone Re: Tough Love - 01/28/03 01:39 AM
Thank you very much for your replys. I just came from their apartment to pick up our children and she was just clinging right next to him as the kids were getting their coats on. She doesn't care about my feelings and only wants to be with OM so bad she doesn't care who she hurts.

A little history about OM. He and I were best friends for 12 years. We camped,kayaked,biked,hiked,any outdoor activity we would do together. He was like the brother I never had. That is why it makes it so hard. He was married and divorced. His wife had an affair. He has had numerous relationships based on having other male friends and then getting their girlfriends to be with him over them; almost like some sort of competition. I never saw that until he did it to me because he kept that side of his life very private... I wonder why. He stays with those girls until he gets bored and then moves on to a new conquest. He tells all of us that it didn't work out and she wasn't the right one. I found this out when those other guys told me and his old girlfriends would tell me. He was with a girl for 3 years when he had the affair with my W.

I was totally blown away. So I told my W all of this and now she only says "I see the other side of him" "People make mistakes" " He is not like that".... FOG FOG FOG FOG. There is nothing I can say to her that will wake her up she is in too deep.

Now are children our involved myson is 5 and my daughter is 8. Son is a little young to understand but my daughter does. She doesn't like it and only wants her mommy and daddy back together.

I know this is moving so fast. W doesn't want hardly anything from me just some child support. No stock,pension,maintenance. Just half of the sale of the house and a few marital assets. She want out so fast she doesn't care how it is done.

They have been living together for 5 months no sign of fog wearing off. I have been doing the best job I can on Plan A. Now onto Plan B. This is where it gets good.

With my work schedule, I only have to work half of the month(12 HOUR SHIFTS). OM and mine days off are the same. I take the kids every day off. So I work full time and have the kids the rest of the time. He works full time and gets my W the rest of the time. W does not work at all. We are now doing our vacation sign up for this year. I agreed to take one week so that her and OM could go to YEllowstone National Park. She in turn will take the kids one week so that I can go on my vacation. I thought that was reasonable. Maybe stupid on my part but I am trying to do Plan a.

Now she throws in another trip that they want to take to Germany in MAy. I told her she got her week and that's it from me. She wined about how she was planning to take the kids on other days this summer so that I would then have some free time to myself. I replied that I would never stop her from being with the kids but that my vacation was for me and time with our children not for you to plan my vacation around you. That set her back. It is starting to get alittle easier being more firm with her because she is looking very pathetic with OM right now. I explained that you already get 15 days a month alone with him and I wont give my vacation to you for any more than that one week.

I agree she is in the fog. I agree that I should move to Plan B. I need to protect myself yet be sybil because the D isn't final. She wants out and isn't looking at all her options. BUt I refuse to be taken for a fool no longer. I admit I may have been in my own marital fog, but NOONE deserves their spouse having an affair with ANYONE.

I am doing better with therapy. My kids are always excited to be with me and are both looking forward to our therapy group tomorrow. I am so glad that I have this MB to sound off on because some of these emotions just keep boiling up and its good to know that you guys are here for support. I thank you all so very very much.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/28/03 11:45 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: I'm sorry to hear what happened to your house. I'm also glad no one was hurt. I know you hate to come off of three grand right now, but I guess you have to do what you have to do.

FAA: Before you do anything else, please see your attorney. You are in a tight spot. Your w is trying to sweep you away ,so she and OM can get married. I think you may be able to get custody of your kids especially if OM is living with w and kids. OM will eventually dump your w like a bad mistake. You must protect your kids. You still sound as though there is no urgency. My friend your w is trying to set you up. Please talk to your attorney. Time is of essence!

Relady gave you some good advice. Please take heed.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/28/03 12:56 PM
Wallace,
I'm sorry you had to deal with the fire and its aftermath. I'm sure your insurance will help; hey, maybe you can even make some improvements while the work is being done <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . Just goes to prove there are "surge protectors" and then there are "multiple outlet power strips". We are all just glad someone was home and nobody got hurt.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/28/03 08:06 PM
Hi All,

FAA...

Based on your last post... I think it's time for you to make a decision on whether you want to continue being a part of your WS's antics.

Her statement that she doesn't want to hurt you is obviously not a true statement based on her clinging to her B/F right in front of you... I'll give you a "thumbs up" for being able to tolerate that kind of behavior.

Since you are in the midst of a D, I assume you do have an attorney. If you do not... then as suggested by all... you need to get one... protect yourself and your children for what appears to be heading your way. Things are moving way too fast... you need to try to slow things down.

Petvet, relady, and avondale have given you
good advice... consider what they have stated, and go from there.

If however you decided to go into Plan B. In general... you will need to write and send her a Plan B letter informing her of the no-contact aspect of it and you must stick with it, and not deviate from it ( you may want some MBer's advice on your letter before you send it). If you and your WS have computers then you can make any and all arrangements (visitation, etc.) via email or through a third party. IMO, the purpose of Plan B., is to protect you, and keep you from loosing anymore love that you may have left for your wife, and to let her see what it's like to not have you around.

If and when you see true changes coming from your W, and only then, are you suppose to deviate from Plan B. once it's begun. You may see some false recoveries, you may see nothing at all.. it is very risky and there are no guarantees, as all bets are off at that point.

In my opinion it's a concept of last resort, if all else fails.

My prayers are with you, as we all know the pain you are going through.

One last thing... try to protect your children from your WS's actions as much as you possibly can. They are more than likely having a hard time of it as well.

Petvet... avondale, and relady...

How is everything going with all of you? How are you all doing?

EC...

What's going on with you my friend? Haven't heard of anymore developments from you. Let us know how your making out.

RMA and Dave...

If your by... let us know how you are doing.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ January 28, 2003, 02:14 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/30/03 04:31 PM
Just a quick update, there is so much to do but I feel so much better about the direction that I am headed.

Mentor program is FANTASTIC - light bulbs are going off in my head like crazy - and that's good.

The biggest thing is that I consulted with a financial advisor yesterday, someone I have known and also know someone who used to work for him who speaks very highly of him. He had some good ideas and had a number of professionals that I need to go see. It feels better to have a plan. I am going to cancel the appointment with the attorney for tomorrow & instead make one with someone he recommended. I didn't know attny anyway.

So many things have been in limbo & just felt stuck. Now, by focusing on what I want and not on my problems things are beginning to happen. First, my Mom paid to have one of our old cars fixed so OS could drive. Then, I found used family room furniture (excellent quality and loooow price) to replace my P.O.S as the teenagers say.

I hope everyone is doing well. There is a lot to do quickly and I am still chauffering D around which has been good for our relationship, but hell on my getting much done.

OS & 2 friends from college showed up at my house at 6:15 this morning. They drove all night to get here, so now they are all asleep. Good timing - I needed someone to move the furniture, they just didn't know what they were getting into!

D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/30/03 09:05 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyones day is going well.

I have been going helter skelter since the fire at my house.

I'm going to be tied up for a little while... starting work on the fire damage. We are going in on it starting tomorrow and hopefully we will have it all finished by Sunday.

WGTT...

Glad to hear that everything is moving in a postive direction for you. I guess there is no place left to go but up, when you've been through what we have been through.

I just went through the moving thing with my "lady friend". It was no fun at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It's a good thing that you have some help, and that you got such a great deal on all of your furniture and such. It's nice when things start falling into place like that.

I and my OS have been carting my YD around as well. We are going to try to make some arrangements for her to get her own car. It just seems like there is not enough time in the day.

Keep up the good work, your heading in the right direction.

Petvet, RMA, Dave, avondale, relady, EC, you all still alive and well?

Hope everyone has a great day and a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 01/30/03 09:12 PM
Hello - I don't mean to jump in here but I just wanted to say that thank you. I have gained so much incite from this thread (yes, I have read all 72 pages worth of it!!). You are all such strong people.

I am currently separated (not legally) and just have no idea where my situation is heading, but I know after reading this thread that there is life after all the drama of an affair. I guess that's something to look forward too. I am trying to find the positive in things these days.

I wish you guys all the luck in the world, you deserve it!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/30/03 10:32 PM
ThePits - I'm still learning from this thread and I've been here 6 months! People on this thread are the best!

WGTT - does your change of plans re: lawyer mean you're now re-thinking divorce? Or are you just getting all your financial ducks in a row first? It's great that you feel you are now better focused <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace , are you doing the repair work yourself, working over the weekend? Hopefully if it's that type of damage, it's not as bad as I had thought. I was imagining a few rooms burned out or heavily smoke damaged, melted wiring, etc.

Petvet, EC, Relady , miss ya!
Dave, RMA , hope things are going well for y'all!

Not much new with me, that's why I haven't initiated a post. Being slammed with work but that's not a bad thing, as we all know keeping busy helps during separation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope everyone has a great weekend! I'm working at a Bridal Fair at our coliseum, being a hostess at a display booth. Hey, at least I don't have to model as the Mother of the Bride, LOL

<small>[ January 30, 2003, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/31/03 05:45 AM
Hi all! No I have not gone anywhere. I've just been busy and trying to stay above water.

ThePits: Welcome, Just 70 plus pages, I thought this thread was longer. We on this thread will try to help you as best we can.

FAA: What's up with your situation?

Avondale: Same for you?

Wallace: How long will it take to repair damage to the house?

WGTT: Are you about ready to make your move?

Later.
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 01/31/03 02:45 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome!

I was very aprehensive about my separation. I knew it was/is the right thing to do for now at least. I do grow stronger everyday, but want nothing more than to be a whole family again.

My H has been cheating on me for at least the last year. In my heart I knew something was going on, but he denied, denied, denied. He went on a "business trip" last May and while he was away I received an anonomyous letter telling that he was in Jamaica with OW. I was 5 months pregnant at the time and devistated. Well, when he returned he admitted the letter was true and that he was leaving and all the fog talk, blah, blah, blah.

I wanted to throw him out then, but I was so scared being pregnant that I sucked it up thinking he would change his mind and come home. I also did my fair share of snooping and found out all the OW info, phone and address. I called her begging her to leave him alone. Well, she was floored as she didn't even know I was pregnant. You think she would run after hearing that, but this sparky 23 yeard old is haning in there.

Well, here I am on my own with 3 kids and a mixed up husband that can't cut his ties with OW. The sad thing is that he has been more helpful since he has moved out. Guilt maybe, but hey I'll take guilt right now. He has been a non-existant husband for the last year. At least now I am getting some help. And if his chicky doesn't like it then she can just move on! I already told her that me and the kids aren't going anywhere.

Oh, then just after x-mas my husband admits that he has had a few ONS within the last 2 1/2 years. I had no idea about them, but I guess his guilt was killing him so he confessed. What a way to end the year from He**!

Oh well, another day in the life of me! But I have grown so much stronger after reading this thread. Not only am I not alone (sadly) but I now believe that I can't through this with or without him.

Thanks again - Everyone!
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/31/03 08:50 PM
ThePits,

There is another on this board in the same position, her husband had an affair while she was pregnant with their 4th child. You may want to do a search under the name Godisincontol to find her posts.

Your name does fit the situation that you are in. Sorry for the reason that you are here, but MB is a wonderful place for support, knowledge and growth if you let it.

God Bless,
D.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/01/03 11:31 PM
FAA and ThePits,

Stick with this thread. The folks here and really good people who can help you. They have been and some still are where you are today.

Hello to The Gang,

Terrible about the space shuttle, today. I worked this morn and have had the TV on listening to the coverage while I have worked on income taxes all day! I do about 10 - 12 returns for various folks. I just popped in to say Hello and let you all know I think of you daily. You are all loved and care for.....

RMA
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/02/03 04:18 PM
Hi Guys and Gals,

I woke up this morning and just begin to Thank the Lord for all he's done in my life since D-day, what a blessed time this has been despite of the heartache. It's amazing where I was at in the period and where I'm at now. When you work on you ain't no tellin what you may do or become. I'm amazed how a WS will tell you how awful you are betray you and make you feel and look worthless and they parade out of your life with OP as if they have the victory and moving forward and you feel left behind. Then after the boom of d-day you gather yourself, figure out what you need to do, pick yourself up, look to the future and say life here I come, yet you yearn to have you WS and always that nag of 'look what they done to me'. After a while you educate yourself in the matter and realize Affairs and Adultery are a weakness, not strength. Affairs and Adultery are moving backwars in life, not forward. After a while you realize judgement on a WS is not that you wish them to get hurt or die, there judgement on earth while they are living is to "Let them have there way to there own pride and desires" why? because eventually when they get full, they'll want no more and It'll eventually make them sick of it, it's called 'Torment of Guilt' of the mind, that's why we can't always look for outer evidence that a WS is living it up or not. Sin has a price outside of anything we have to do with it, that was set in motion at creation of time. In our society you have the 'Real and the Counterfeit'.

Lots of people today are leaving there spouses to hook up with a 'Counterfiet Connection'. It's an epidemic. You know, a fake $20.00 bill will always look good, look real, bypass certain eyes, get you some things, but then the day comes you got to give it all back, because it was never yours, its a Counterfeit. So is it with a WS, they think they are now rich in emotional needs from OP only to find in the end all they obtain was shame, guilt and torment, The WS's are getting there Love Banks filled with 'Counterfeit Deposits' [Lies]. Shame and guilt will alway be at the center and core of that relationship because it was obtained through betrayal and lying.

You have to remember that you are the 'Real' and hold the "True Words" of life and peace. Words that not only advance you in life but also others. Your life has purpose and meaning, and for the women its not about what's between your legs or how large on your chest that places a value and your worth, you are a reward to somebodys life from kids to women and men, for the men its not about if you're some great stud or not, life is greater and means more than that, you have value and worth, somebody looks up to you and you don't even know it, you're somebodys unspoken hero, it could be a kid, a man or a woman.

So I just wanted to say this today, that if a WS has reduced you to rubble, pick yourself up and start innovating your life, you'll find that you'll be the best you, you could ever know. When a house is on fire people will drive miles to see it burn wishing no harm to the residence, strangers become your friends, everybodys in one mind to the cause of rescue, Oh yes!, your WS set the fire and ran off, but in reality all the WS did was set your "PASSION" on fire, passion to do the things that will cause you to burn bright and love life and be an overcomer, keep it up, people will drive miles to see you burn 'Courage is Contageous'.

Sorry to hear about your house Wallace but I'm sure something good will come out of it, I'm sure there is nugget of life you can gather from it that will make you a better you through knowledge.

Take Care.
Posted By: Is it too late?_dup1 Re: Tough Love - 02/02/03 08:16 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Petvet:
<strong>I want to know whether anyone has used the Love Must Be Tough techniques? Also, I would like to know whether it is commen for people to file for divorce or actually divorce and later reconcile?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, I am very new to this forum so forgive my mistakes. I have actually posted the same question since my spouse and I divorced over a year ago. Are you now in plan B? It took me over a year to get out of the fog and waiting it out would have been best for us. That's an incredibly hard process and proved to be impossible for my H. We talked a lot the whole time so I got some needs met by the OM and my stability/emotional needs met by my H. I think if he had TOTALLY cut me off, I would have gotten out of the fog sooner. Who knows? It's so terrible to even think about. I wish you blessings.

<small>[ February 02, 2003, 02:23 PM: Message edited by: Is it too late? ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/03/03 05:36 AM
Hello everyone

Life can be good no matter what goes on outside of you. God can use the devastation in our lives to grow something good. It really feels good to realize that I am actually "living" again. The world looks different today. This evening, my mom, sister, her husband & my YS went to dinner. I was relaxed, we laughed and basically just had a good time. For about a year after dday, I was so preoccpied with WH, my grief, anger and pain that I didn't live in the moment.

I cancelled my appointment with the attorney on the 31st and had a new one recommended to me. They sent my paperwork to be filled out before the first appointment. They were not kidding - they want everything the first visit & this guy seems very organized. A good friend of mine 's XH used this attorney & she was not happy with him, but her XH was! He came as a referral from my new financial advisor.

The mentor program is helping and already I have noticed changes in my thoughts and consequently my actions and what happens around me. I had been struggling for months (really years) with finances & cars broken down that just sit at my house, with old yukky furniture and TV. The last week or two, God has used my overflowing washing machine to enable me to replace all these things! God is good.

There is soooo much to do, gathering all this information for the attorney. I am self employed so that multiplies things exponentially, plus I will copy him on all the "information" that I have collected.

One of the workers may take over the business up there & WH seems to be relieved. We have a number of law suits going & that's another story in itself. Life is very full to say the least.

I hope all are well - Have a great Monday
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/04/03 06:43 AM
Hi Everyone,

Happy Monday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope your weekend was wonderful.

EC

What a beautiful way to start my Monday, by reading your post from yesterday. Very inspiring. This is the kind of post that encourages BS's to stop feeling sorry for themselves, concentrate on themselves, and do something that moves them forward. Many times we miss the opportunity that has been dropped in our laps by our unsuspecting WS's because we're so busy thinking about what we've 'lost' and not looking at what we have 'found' ourselves .

In the 7 months that I've been separated, I have totally changed my appearance, have more confidence, increased my income, and totally enjoy being with myself. What a change! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
I am truly loving life these days.

I am printing your post for future reference. You should post it on other threads as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace

How are the repairs coming? I always thought you were too 'hot to handle' Now look what you've done! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

How are you and where have you been?

Petvet, RMA, EC and Everyone Else

Have a great and wonderful day.

God Bless,
relady

<small>[ February 03, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/03/03 11:48 PM
Hi All,

I've been very busy the last several days. I did get my electrical problem and some of the repairs completed. There is still quite a bit to do though. I'll probably be working on it off and on the next several months putting it all back together again.

avondale...

I'm doing most of the work myself with subcontractors coming in... elctricians, drywall subcontractors... etc. I carry in addition to my Plumbing license... a General Contractors license as well... even though I don't do work as a GC.

The damage was primarily the electrical, a few walls in our family room, carpet, some tile, and one bathroom that needs work. I'll do most of the work myself... but the carpet and electrical work will be subcontracted out.

ThePits

Hello and welcome to "MBers" and the "Tough Love" thread. I'm sorry to see that your here... but under the circumstances it's a good place to be. I'm glad that this thread has helped you... it was a real life saver for me as well.

I'm so sorry to hear of your situation. Keep us informed of your situation and we will try to help as best we can.

When the "A" my exW came to light... I felt as though I had my soul ripped out of me. I was devastated when I had found out about all the wonderfulness that I was left with... I truly felt as though a had hit bottom. As time went on... I did become stronger and you indeed will also become stronger... it's the nature of the beast. You will either become stronger or it will consume you. Most choose not to be consumed... and I'm sure you won't either.

Petvet...

Your life sounds like it's moving as fast as mine is. I'm trying to keep up with all that's going on in my life. I went from living a pretty sedate life style to one that is almost borderline out of control. Not enough time in the day for everything... there is always something.

RMA...

Good to hear from you! When you mentioned tax returns... it brought up another thing to put on my "To do List". Hope your doing well... I'm always wondering how you are making out. Don't stay away for too long a period... you know how I like to wander off and get myself in a mess... LOL.

It was terrible news about the Space shuttle. We have had a number of tragic days in this country here lately. My prayers are with the families and friends of all that were lost.

EC...

That was a very inspiring post. You couldn't have picked a better time to post that. I agree with relady...other MBers should see that. You should post that on a thread all and of it's own.
Even with everything going on this past weekend... I had of all things... a dream about my exW. It woke me right out of a dead sleep. I don't know what prompted the dream, but I'm not looking forward to anymore of them. Just when you think your past it... I guess your not... oh well.

Is it too late...

I would like to welcome you to the "Tough Love" thread as well.
To answer you question from my vantage point as far as whether any of us are still in Plan B. In a sense I'm still in Plan B. I'm not in it for any of the reasons I originally started out with... as I have no need or desire to communicate with my exW. She is not interested in contacting her children, and at this point in time they have no desire to communicate with her. IMHO, she is in a very sad state as far as what use to be her family... it will more than likely take her a life time, if ever to recover what she lost in terms of love that her children once had for her.

It sounds as though you are the WS in your M... am I correct in that assumption? I would be very interested in hearing your story... if you wish to share your it.

WGTT...

It sounds like you have plenty going on as well.

I remember when I had to dig up all the paper work to give to my attorney to proceed with my D. It took me almost two months to get it all together. Sad part is... I'm not done. I'm getting ready for round two with the exW... Contempt of Court for noncompliance of CS.

Glad to hear that things are heading in a positive direction for you.

relady...

I must of forgot to hit the bold button.

LOL...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I always thought you were too hot to handle. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I never looked at it quite that way. No wonder the smoke alarm didn't go off... LOL.

I think both you and EC put it well. Don't dwell on what we may or may not have lost... look at all the wonderful things that we are gaining.

Hope everyone has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 03, 2003, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/04/03 01:53 AM
Hey Y'all,
Funny how we can go days without a post and then get several posts on the same day.

EC, your post WAS inspiring and I thought I had told you that but I guess it was in my dreams since it's not showing here, LOL

Relady, you are tooo punny...er, funny! "hot to handle"?? Don't let his lady friend hear that, LOL

IsItTooLate, welcome to this thread! I consider myself in Plan B; that is, having no initiative to interact with my WS.

WGTT, I read in the other thread about your furniture, that is GREAT news, congratuations! I know you have a very mixed up situation because of the business aspect, so hang in there!

Wallace, You're fortunate to be able to handle a lot of that yourself. I bet you had contacts too, that hopefully will be trustworthy if not cheap. Maybe both!

Me, well, I got the dreaded tax question from WH today on email. He said:
You probably are recieving some Tax stuff - probably best to just start a file and keep everything over there, don't you think? I don't mind keeping it here, but I assume we will be filing jointly. All I've recieved so far is my W2 from my employer, but most stuff will probably be sent to your house.

Well, my answer is prepared thanks to asking y'all what to do, and I've re-written so as to not be nasty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But I wonder why he "assumed" anything? Could it be he's STILL in the fog? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> And now for the first time in 25 years, I'm having the responsibility to get the tax stuff ready for the CPA. Lucky Me!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/04/03 11:54 AM
Hi all!

The Pits: Welcome to the thread. I am sorry to hear about your situation; we have seen people in your very situation before. All WSs sound alike. We are here to help you if you need advice or just want someone to communicate with eho understands your situation.

EC: Brother, you sound like a Billy Graham. When are you going to start your revival? You have talent. I loved your message.

Wallace: You may want to let someone else do electrical stuff; electrical stuff is nothing to play with. I know you are saving alot of money.

RMA: Nice to hear from you. We are in the same business. Busy time of year.

Relady: Yes, you have shown a tremendous amount of strength since we have known you. You have not missed a beat.

Avondale: Remember, please don't file jointly. I learned the hard way.

Me: I've been very busy. Many times I read your posts but don't have time to respond. Somedays are better than others. No, court date yet.

Later.
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/04/03 03:16 PM
Hi Everyone -

I am trying to take things day by day lately. But everyday that we are apart I start to question if the M is even worth it anymore. He says that too much damage has been done. Yes, a lot of damage has been done, but why am I the only one that wants to work on it. He is the one that did all the damage - I am the one saying lets work on it and he is like lets move on. Our marriage wasn't perfect, but who's is? I knew we were going to have our fair share of problems and I have stood by him through it all. How is it so easy for him to just walk away. That is what I am having the biggest problem with. I just don't understand what gave him the idea he could date while he is married?!?!?! It is just so frustrating!

At the moment we are getting along fine. We actually went out on Sunday as a family. Took the kids to the arcade. The kids are doing well under the circumstances. I don't limit the times he can visit them. It would only spite the kids if I did so. I want to make things as normal as possible for them for as long as I can. I just hope that I am not making it too easy for H to continue to live his two lives.

Any suggestions? I just don't know what to do next. Him being out of the house has made me stronger, but I don't know what to do to put my family back together again.

I don't wish this hurt on anyone.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/04/03 04:44 PM
The Pits Basically you're the only one who can determine your future. God gave you free will to make decisions. I've been reading some of your previous posts and assume you were ConfusedbutHopeful who underwent a name change. Are either of you seeing a marriage counselor? Or any type of counselor, for that matter? Have you been reading up on SA to get better insight into your husband? With him out of the house now, you have the option of Plan A or Plan B. Have you read up on those here at MB? Remember, in Plan A you do have to be somewhat of a "doormat" and allow some cake-eating.

I know what you mean about feeling stronger since your H has gone. I am finding it easier to get emotionally healthy since I have recently discontinued ANY contact with my H after he moved out 7 months ago. Just the thought of talking about taxes with him makes me queasy (not cuz of the taxes, but of interacting with him in his pious fog <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).

Petvet - I hope you're right about the "married filing separately" cuz I did some figuring of my own at a tax website and it looks like I may have to pay $5000 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . However, that still may be worth it in order to not have to talk to my H. I guess we'll see how other income figures into it.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/05/03 06:34 AM
Hi everyone,

I hope everyones day is going well.

The Pits...

I'll give you the answer to your question concerning why your "H" is acting the way that he is.

It's because he is ...

"selfish and self-centered"

These are the two main reasons... everything revolves around that... not much more.

Once that concept is grasped... it helps explain why the WS does the things that they do.

I would Plan A.at this point in time. Working a good Plan A. is about you, not about them. Working to make yourself a better person, and all the while you are doing that... maybe, just maybe, your "H" will stop long enough to come out of his fog and take notice.

If you haven't read the Plan A and Plan B. concepts on this site... I highly recommend you do when you get an opportunity... they have some very valuable info. that may be able to show you where to set your boundaries.

avondale...

Just curious... did you do your tax estimate on that site with you and your "H' filing jointly?

$5,000.00 is quite a bit to have to pay in... I might want to research that one a little further before I make any moves.

I would talk with my exW for $5,000.00. It would be the fastesst $5,000.00 I ever made... I would give my exW about 30 seconds of talk time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Oh, by the way... my "lady friend" already knows I'm on fire... LOL j/k

Petvet...

I subcontracted the electricl work out... it's all done as far as what the damage and areas was concerned.

What's the deal with the no court date? Something in the wind?

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: FeelingAllAlone Re: Tough Love - 02/05/03 06:48 AM
I'm sorry folks that I have been away but I have been flat on my back with the flu and I haven't been able to sit up for quite awhile. I needed to lose some weight anyway lol.

I have been reading a lot of books however to help me through all of this...Love Busters, books by James Dobson, and also Forgive for Good all excellent books. I learned a lot about myself and what may have cause my W to wonder away and have the affair. I know that OM has too much of an influence on her and she no longer wants to come back to this life with me. The caring and nurturing that he gives her outshadows anything that I could give her(in her mind). I however will have to forgive them and move on. I will not forget what they did to me or our children. I will pray everyday for both of them so that God will soften their hearts and turn their lives over to him.

I am fighting too many LB's in my head. She will not listen to me. I cant make her love me or leave OM until she see's what she has done during this whole ordeal. I tried it all, even quoting scripture and all I succeeded in doing is push her farther away. I should have just let her know that I loved her and wanted our marriage to work. Let God work his will in her. He was patient enough for me when I was going through life in my own personal fog. Now it's time for me to pray for her and let God work his will into her life.

I will never give up on her. The affair has been going on since last Sept. and I will still pray for her. The divorce is still moving along at a snail's pace. I am using this time for prayer and hoping God is allowing the divorce to move slowly so that she will come back to me. I try to be nice and cordial to her when I deal with her but it's hard to swallow when your stomach gets caught in your throat and your heart melts when I look into her eyes.

Her feeling for OM is strong and she tells me about things that they are doing with the kids and all I can do is nod my head and try to be polite.... That just kills me. I have to forgive and move on and be the best that I can be with God's help. I know the Lord brought us together and 14 years is something we built to last a lifetime. I will have to be patient through all of this.

Petvet,Wallace,WGTT,IsItTooLate,avondale25,Relady,,RMA, and everybody else, your words of encouragement not only to me but everyone else are so timely and I always enjoy coming here and getting either a "pickmeup" or advice. Thanks.

The Pits,your H and my W must read from the same manual; because your posts seem quite similar to mine. Hang in there and please keep posting... these people are awesome and have really helped me alot.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/05/03 01:59 AM
Hey the TL Gang,

Hope everyone is doing ok.

Glad I was able to encourage ya'll, you know that's whats life is about, when one has the fire, pass it and charge someone else, we have our good times and bad times still, sometimes you're in the valley and sometimes you're on the mountain top. I'm just trying to walk in the middle again on the plateau, but it's a journey. My outlook is slowly changing from ' Look what you done to me' to ' Look what you done for me' your actions that was meant and intended to hurt and destroy me brought me into the greatest blessings I never dreamed I could do or happen. You want something you never had? You got to do something you've never done. Your actions today set things in motion for your future.

Whatever promises God made while you were married does not cease just because your W or H left, God is faithful and will finish what he started, he is a wise and faithful builder. He will bring you into your inheritence because you're his child, God needs time to perform it for you, be patient and watch.

Phil 1

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/05/03 11:39 AM
Hi all:

Avondale: I would recommend this for you. Why don't you pay a visit to a CFP or CPA to have them run some numbers for you? At most it make cost you $150 for one hour of their time. I would not trust the website. This way you won't be taking my word or website, but the word of someone who has look at your individual situation. I would just hate for you to have to deal with any problems with depending on your H to help you pay taxes back especially when the debt was based on two incomes. Do you understand what I'm saying?

The Pits: I would recommend you read the definitions for Plan A & B.

FAA: Have you seen an attorney? Have I asked you this before?

Me: Well, I have some good and bad news. My court date is February 20th. I just found out yesterday. I feel kinda odd. What can I say?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/05/03 12:50 PM
Petvet,
Thanks for the insight...I have a CPA/CFP and was just checking the website for preliminary info. Also, I had forgotten to include household support checks from WH as income so that may make the amount I owe probably less. I'm taking the stuff to my guy today or tomorrow.

I don't know what to say about your court date either. Two weeks away. We all know you've done everything you could, and you can hold your head high and be at peace with yourself. I've written that date on my calendar to be praying for you.
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/06/03 06:04 AM
Hi All!!

Yes, it's another fun filled day in the City of Dysfunction! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Avondale - yes, I was ConfusedButHopeful, but lately life has been ThePits since H has moved out. It's been less stressful since I am not stressing about where he is going when he walks out the door, but I still wonder once an a while. Sad thing is that he is more helpful to me since he moved out. Go Figure! I know that I am the only one that can determine how much I can take, but I wish I could get hold of a crystal ball that had some incite as to where I am headed!
I am not a deeply religious person, I have my beliefs and I took/take my vows seriously. But I really feel that I am being tested on the "for better or worse" part!

Wallace - I agree with the selfishness and self-centeredness. I think I actually got him to see this side of himself a couple of weeks ago. He somewhat admited it to me. I was shocked, but tried not to let him see it otherwise it would have came out "I told you so". He realizes now how much hurt he has caused with his actions, but he can't cut contact with OW. He feels that too much damage has been done and we can't move forward, he is scared. I have tried to make him feel welcome and Plan A all I can, but I just don't see him coming home to be a family.

PetVet - Yes, I have read and read and read and I understand somewhat of what is going on in his head, but it doesn't make it any less frustrating. I just want to knock him over his head and say wake up!

FeelingAllAlone - I agree with you. I just don't understand where all this fog talk comes from and that it all sounds the same! Is there a school for this?

My MIL is finally coming around to the fact that this is not all my fault. She is trying to get my H to talk to the priest that she works for. I really hope that she gets him to go, he won't get help on his own. My H really needs to speak with someone and he won't go into counseling with me or even for himself.

Oh well, like I said, another fun filled day!!!

Hope all is well for everyone!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/05/03 10:21 PM
Hello All,

FAA...

One thing that I learned through all of this was patience. It appears that you have been very patient as well... but there comes a time when you have to decide to move forward with your life... with or without your WS.

Only you will know when that time is, and when you believe you have had enough... there will be no doubt in your mind about it.

Pray on it, and give it to the Lord and allow him to lead you to what He has planned.

You need to heal... and by exposing yourself to your WS and her continued antics IMHO will not allow you the time that you need in order to heal and move forward.

Give yourself a break away from the madness, as hard and as difficult it may be... it will do you some good, I'm sure.

EC...

I agree with what you posted. Our reward is not in this lifetime... If we stand strong and hold our faith... we win.

If you lose your faith... you have lost it all. They can take everything else away from me... but they will never take my faith in the Lord.

Petvet...

Is this the final hearing for your D... on the
20th? If so, I will light a candle for you and be praying for you.

As avondale stated, you have done all you could do. You can walk away with your head held high and you can be proud of what you have attempted to resolve. It will be your W loss in the grand scheme of things. I'm sorry it has turned out the way that it did... there was a number of times when I thought you might be close to reconciling with your wife.

Prayers and blessings to you my friend.

avondale...

Sounds like your playing out your options concerning your tax return... I hate even thinking about it on my end. I'm slowly gathering up all the items that I'm going to need. I'll probably wait till the 11th hour and then go in and have my CPA do them.

ThePits...

When you get right down to it... all of the WSs seem to be saying and doing the same thing. Just the names and circumstances are a little different to protect the innocent. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I wouldn't depend to much on his family helping things out. I'm sure your aware the saying around here... "Blood is thicker than mud". But if they do... consider it a plus in your favor... just don't lean too heavily on it.

relady...

How are doing? You have been a little quiet here lately... are you driving in your car with the top down and your hair blowing in the wind?

Dave...

If you see this... I hope everything is still going well for you.

WGTT and RMA...

Hope everything is going well.

I hope I didn't miss anyone... If I did, I'll remember you on the next post.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/06/03 04:48 AM
Hi all:

Avondale: You seem to have things under control with your taxes.

The Pits: I would second what Wallace told you. Don't be too hard on herself because you will definitely know when it's time to move on.

Wallace: Yes, this is THE HEARING. I have been so so all day long. I'm sad.

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/06/03 05:49 PM
Hi All,

Hope everyone is well.

Thepits

Welcome to the TL thread if I haven't done that all ready. My days seem to be running together.

On this thread you have the 'gurus' of relationship with valuable information so don't hesitate to ask a question or state a feeling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace

I have been posting although I have been very busy imnplementing new ideas. Things that will allow me to work smarter not harder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Nothing new in my situation, no convertible yet.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> For now, I have to let my hair blow through the sun roof. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

How are your repairs going? And how is your OD? Are you still communicating with her?

{{{{{{{{Petvet}}}}}}}

I hope everything works out for you on the 20th. Is this your final hearing? Will your stbxw have to appear as well? I will definitely be praying for you up to and including that date.

Avondale

Did you send the email to your 'H' yet? My accountant said when you're married and filing separate your taxes are higher because you loose your marital benefits. I've been filing separate since I got married, however; I have so many write-offs, I don't notice it much.

Davepr

How are you? and how is your recovery going? We don't hear much from you lately.

RMA, WGTT, EC, FAA

Hope you are all having a wonderful day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless
relady
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/06/03 08:02 PM
Hi All -

Just a quick note to say I was thinking of all of you.

Thanks for all the good wishes! As for my in-laws, I try not to rely on them or tell them too much as I know he is blood and always will be. They are good people and only want the best for us, and thankfully they want us to stay married.

Oh well, back to work. It's a dirty job, but someone's gotta do it!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/06/03 08:03 PM
Hi All,

I've been going through some triggers here lately... I'll post on it soon. Trying to figure out why I'm having them as they come for no paticular reason. I'll get back to all of you on it.

Petvet...

I know your sad my friend... and I understand the pain that your going through at this very moment. For me... when my time came up... reality had set in full tilt for me... I "indeed" was going to be divorced. It was a hard fact to totally swallow, but I knew it was truly over.

I leaned on God very heavily, and to this day I still do... without him... I'm not sure I would of made it as well as I did.

Your in my prayers and thoughts and we are here for you as your final Court date draws near.

relady...

Here all this time I thought you had a convertilbe top on your car... LOL

I agree with you about the working smarter not harder concept. I try to do it all the time myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> although I'm not always successful, I try.

I'm going through this syndrome of having my days all run together somewhat like you. I'm having a hard time keeping track of what the date and time is... I've got so much going on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Well I hope everyone is having a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 02/06/03 11:59 PM
To all, I have read all the post, but don't have the time to reply. Keep the good advice going, guys.

Petvet,

I saw you finally have a date. I can defintiely relate to the heavy sadness you feel. Keep praying. God has great things in store for yoru life. If the door does indeed close on this relationship, know that God will lead you at the appropriate time to another door. Keep the faith that no matter the outcome of this chapter in your life, you WILL have a happy and fulfilling life at some point in the future. Many prayers coming your way!!

Wallace,

You need a fire extinguisher before you get into too much trouble! teehee

RMA
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/07/03 04:31 AM
Hello everyone

Yuk - I have had this flu junk and havn't done much of anything this week so far. There is so much to do - lots of paperwork to gather for the DV & financial planner as well, year end stuff, and figuring out how to best provide for me a& the kids. This month, we will most likely take a plunge as far as income goes. But I am learning to think positive thoughts thru the mentor program & so far it's working.

Have just done a quick scan thru here but it's been hard to concentrate. Today I went to a quickbook class & very thankful that I did.

Have a great evening!!!

D.
Posted By: Alsia Re: Tough Love - 02/07/03 06:21 AM
PetVet I read some of the previous post and I was just wondering now that the divorce is almost final...how do you feel about your stbx? Are you on friendly terms?
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/07/03 11:33 AM
Hi all:

Everyone: Thanks for the encouragement. I had a bad yesterday of feeling in the dumps. I am afraid that I am going to get left holding the bag financially on many things because w does not have much money. I'm looking at taxes and attorney fees due to her. Since she would not settle on child support and other matters, my attorney racked up quite a bit of time. My attorney said that she will ask court to get w to pay those fees, but you cannot get juice from a turnip. Someone asked how we get along; well, it's hard for me to be in the same room with her. She has messed up the life of my son and I. I am not please with my inlaws either. I'll pray. That's all I can do.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/07/03 02:57 PM
Hi Everyone!!

Petvet,Avondale,Wallace,Relady,Davepr,RMA,WGTT,ThePits,FAA.........

Petvet - Sorry to see you go through this, but you know, it gets better with time. I remember my DV day and somewhat clouded by a false sense of failure yet I knew I tried. You can only do as much as the other party will allow.

On the subject will your exw have the money to repay anything? That was the first question the lawyer asked who I consulted with a few weeks ago, he asked, can she even repay anything? After he asked salary questions he concluded she could.

Me: The court is finally sending me my court date for the CS change, don't know when date is yet until I get the notice, when I found this out I was rejoicing because this is it!!, every legal door is shutting from here on out, her power over me is coming to an end, this is the final legal issue she could ever use against me, when I see that date, I know that will mean my emancipation from her for good in all this mess, what joy!!

Sent OD b-day gift this week equal to YD, been sending OD email pictures of stuff for the past 2 weeks however get no response, it's odd but I don't feel needy or hurt like I once did in the past if they didn't interact or respond, just another sign I'm healing and getting stronger.

Take Care.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/07/03 07:17 PM
Hi All,

Hope everyone is having a good day today.

RMA...

Luckily I have a fire extinguisher... but I used it already. Was I suppose to spray myself down with it, or use it on the fire I had at my home? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You must have a sixth sense, I know avondale and relady do. LOL.

Things are starting to heat up again with my "lady friend"... only this time... I'm not so sure I want to slow it down. My better judgement tells me to hit the brakes again... I just need to put my foot on the brake pedal. Hmmmmmm... maybe I should get that fire extinguisher refilled. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet...

Ditto to what RMA and EC stated. If in fact one door closes, the Lord will allow another one to open up for you. You will survive, no matter what the outcome.

I think all of us are in the same boat to some degree concerning our wayward spouses and ex-spouses financial misgivings. It's bad enough the things that they have done to get us here... but for some reason it seems like they feel obligated to continue with dealing out as much pain and misfortune as they can for as long as they can. "May the Lord have mercy on their souls".

EC...

It does indeed appear that you may in fact be coming to the end of all your legal woes with your exW. I'll bet that will be a load off your shoulders when that is all said and done with.

Concerning your OD and her lack of communication with you. That will most likely change as time goes on. I'm sure it's still tough on you when you don't hear from her... but she will eventually grow out of that phase.

WGTT...

Sorry to hear that you have the flu. That's going around all over... it' pretty nasty from what I've seen.
My "lady friend" and 2 of her 3 kids have been down with it for about a week, and they are still fighting it. Get well soon!

I read some of your other posts... got a new TV?
Glad to see that things are going well for you... keep up the good work.


relady...

I talked with my OD about 2 weeks ago over the telephone for quite awhile. She seems to be doing well, based on what she has told me... so that's a plus. It doesn't appear that she is going to continue with her College classes... so that was somewhat disappointing.

Hopefully she will go back to school real soon.

How is everything going on your end?

avondale, FAA, ThePits, and everyone else...

Hope everything is working in your favor today.

Well everyone, have a good weekend and may God bless us all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/07/03 07:48 PM
Hi All,

Well, another weekend is upon us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Was I suppose to spray myself down with it, or use it on the fire I had at my home?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Come on my friend, we all know the answer to that question: if you had used it on yourself, the fire would have never happened. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

No, the convertible is what I'm getting when things are over to help me forget. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

3 Kids, Do they all get along with yours? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Petvet

Once this is behind you, you'll at least be able to make an attempt at moving on without wondering what she'll do next. It's just amazing how WS's would rather live a meager existance than to work it out with a loving mate. Go figure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Boy are they deceived. Her Lost!

WGTT

Hope you're feeling better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ME

I'm taking the rest of the day off and going to the movies to see'How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days', so next time it won't take me 3 years. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

RMA, Davepr, Avondale

Have a great weekend.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/07/03 08:08 PM
Hi Wallace,

OD got the gift today, she sent me an email, but I guess something is better than nothing, it's a slow process. I'm sure she was wondering if she would get the same quality and equal value of a gift as YD, I had sent YD a TV in OCT.

OD:

Dad,

Thank you very much for the card. That money is
gonna go a long way!! Anyway, I don't have too much to say so I'm gonna go now, but thank you...
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/10/03 05:21 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: Yes, you better refilled the fore extingisher or better yet buy a swimming pool so that when things get real hot between you and your lady friend, both of you can dive in to cool off. Just make sure that you both keep your clothes on. The swimming pool has been known to get heated if you know what I mean.

Relady: I can tell you are one sharp and spunky lady. You have a good wit about yourself. If things don't work out with your H, I don't expect you to be on the open market very long.

EC: Your daughters are going to really appreciate you. You are a good dad.

Me: I'm feeling better. The NBA All Star game was here this weekend. By all the cruising and wasting of time, it is obvious that there are a lot of lonely people around. I've never seen so many Cadillac Escapades (or something like that) and Hummers in one spot. Oh! How about all those fake furs(beaver, etc). There were so many people cruising that two malls were closed.Relady, you are right that WS will put themselves through so much hell to a meager end just to plow their wears elsewhere.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/10/03 01:17 PM
Happy Monday y'all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace, you mentioned something about triggers a few days ago. How is that going? I wonder if that has anything to do with things heating up with your lady friend?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Things are starting to heat up again with my "lady friend"... only this time... I'm not so sure I want to slow it down. My better judgement tells me to hit the brakes again... I just need to put my foot on the brake pedal. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That statement is contradictory! What's new there? Come on, you know we want to know what's happening so we can give you our unsolicited advice, LOL.

ThePits - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As for my in-laws, I try not to rely on them or tell them too much as I know he is blood and always will be. They are good people and only want the best for us, and thankfully they want us to stay married. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is so true, and although I knew it in my brain it didn't fully sink in until I was in the middle of my own Plan B and found that even when my in-laws talked to my husband, it sent me backwards emotionally because he used the fact that they talked to him as confirmation that they condone what he did. Not true, but typical for those in "the fog". So I'm backing away from interacting with them too; but I do send emails to them just to stay in touch.

For me, not a lot going on here. I did respond to hubby's assumption about doing taxes jointly and haven't heard back. I think he was probably surprised that I was pro-active in something having to do (remotely) with separation. I just call it being smart...but still haven't heard how much I owe.

<small>[ February 10, 2003, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: FeelingAllAlone Re: Tough Love - 02/10/03 04:54 PM
Hi everyone, I hope your weekends were all O.K.

I came from my attorney and I have more curves thrown at me coming from stbxw. Now she wants half of my pension,401k, and half of the valued assets in the house, along with full child support and alimony. I didn't have a problem with any of it until she told me that she still wants to stay at home and not work at all. I have been working full time and having our children half of the month while she and loverboy can have half of the month with no responsibilities. That gets my dander up a little too much. I will always do my outmost to provide for our children but when she just wants to stay at home or travel with BF then I feel I'm being taken advantage of.

Other than that, the only time she is super nice to me is in the presence of her BF. When she is alone she is as cold as ice to me...quite a show she puts on.

I will and always will continue to pray for her. Not so much to return to me so that we can reconcile and rebuild our marriage for that is for God to decide. I can't force her to come back to me. God will have to work his way into her heart. I only pray that her heart will be softened in time.

To Petvet: Know that I and everyone else here is praying for you. When I heard of your date, all I could do was pray. God will NEVER leave us alone. Lean on Him and He will ALWAYS be there for us. Please take care of yourself.

Everyone else please have a great week.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/10/03 05:42 PM
Hi Everyone,

I hope everyone has a good start to their week.

EC...

Your OD's response seems very guarded... why do you think that is? Do you think that your exW has anything to do with it? Her response is very telling... when she said, "it will go a long way". How far do you think it has to go, and for what?

IMHO, it does sound like your exW is using their money for her own use.

I would try to get a dialogue going with her and your YD if I could... you might be surprised at what you hear... then again, I think you have a pretty good idea what's going on already.

Keep up the dialogue between you and your daughters... I think in the long run... you will all be pleased with the outcome.

relady...

After I read your post... I laughed for a good long while. I think you might be right... it's getting a little toasty over here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I like your idea as far as getting a new car when you get through all of this. Sometimes we need to stop and just take care of ourselves.

I talked with my OD this weekend. She has this bad cold that everyone seems to be getting. She has been down with it for about a week... a side from that she seems to be doing well.

Petvet...

If I had a pool in my back yard I might consider jumping into it. Of course it's a little brisk over here to be jumping into a pool. We had a high of about 17 degrees the other day. We are suppose to get up into the 40s today. I guess there is always an indoor public pool... LOL. That would sure cool things down a bit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

avondale...

I'm a walking contradiction of terms... LOL... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> we all know that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Concerning the triggers...for the last several weeks and counting I've had what I'm going to call "A Haunting".

It seems that every night over the last couple of weeks I have been having dreams about my exW. I'm not sure what they are about... because they are all different. It wakes me up out of a dead sleep... so I really don't recall what they are about. All I can recall is that she is in them. In addition to that... I have had a number of triggers go off at all hours of the day and night while I'm awake. The triggers just come out of no where... nothing in particular is setting them off... it's just happening.

I call it... "A Haunting", because that's exactly what it feels like... and I'm not usre if and when it's going to end. Any one have any ideas what this is all about?

Hope everyone has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: FeelingAllAlone Re: Tough Love - 02/11/03 06:29 AM
Wallace, I have those "Hauntings" all of the time. Nothing seems to trigger them but I do wake up from dreams with my W in them and also day to day things catch me dazing into thought of her.

I feel that it is my subconcience mind hard at work. While I try to get my concience mind off of my W and BF by staying busy, my subconcience mind is still working in overdrive. The "Hauntings"as you say is an excellent term since I try not to think about my situation but my subconcience is still hard at work not letting me forget.

I like to think that it is God working in my subconcience to not give up on my W so I wont. He didn't give up on me so I am learning not to give up on her. I hope this helps.
Posted By: Fingers1258 Re: Tough Love - 02/10/03 07:16 PM
Hi Wallace:

Hope you don't mind my cutting in on this thread but I saw your post about triggers. The exact same thing has been happening to me lately too, even though I am getting my life back in order and moving on. I, too, have had many dreams (hauntings) of my X in the last few weeks. Sometimes they are so vivid that they stay with me all day. I think it is post traumatic divorce syndrome!! I am hoping this is only a new phase to recovery.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/10/03 07:39 PM
Hi FAA and Fingers,

Thank you for your reponses.

It feels like the "Hauntings" are becoming more intensive as each day goes by. It truly feels like I'm being haunted. I know that sounds strange... but I have no other way to describe it.

That sad part is... I don't see it letting up anytime soon. I've prayed to God to let it stop, and asked the Lord to take it away... but it still continues.

I'm not that far removed from my final divorce day... but I thought that things would subside a bit after the D... not get worse.

I'm like you Fingers... I'm moving on with my life and things are going rather well. That's what makes this seem so out of the ordinary... I don't get it.

As you stated FAA, maybe it's a subconscience thing that I'm not aware of. I'm not sure what it could be... I've resolved myself to the fact that I would never go back to a marriage such as what I had... so I know that's not it. I'm strugggling with it... I know that.

FAA...

Sounds like your W wants to live a life of leisure... have it all and then some, no matter what price someone has to pay. I would talk with your attorney and stay very close in touch with him... it appears your really going to need him in order to protect yourself financially.

Fingers...

How are you doing? I've been wondering how you have been.

You can come in on this thread anytime your heart desires... we welcome anyone who wants to post in this thread.

I'm sorry to hear that you and FAA are going through this as well. From my stand point... it is indeed a "haunting"!

I don't recall this in any of the stages of recovery. I wonder how many other people are going through this, as I'm sure we are not the only ones.

Good to hear from all of you.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 10, 2003, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/11/03 04:06 PM
Hi Gang!

Hope everyone is doing great!

Wallace - It's true OD is still walled up. Thats just the way exw taught her to be for the last 2 1/2 years, as you see YD is breaking out of the Code of silence talk, she wants her daddy, she just opens up and tells all, she don't care anymore, however OD is still in the the code of silence mode. Yep, she said the money will go a long way? How long is long I don't know, but she sounds like somebody who never had anything and now is trying to hang on and stretch what little they have to the max? It'sad because they were not raised without so much but only since exw had her A's have they lived a life struggle and doing without.

I had an interseting morning, I finally recieved my hearing notice in the mail, I thought it was the final court date but its just the hearing date. Well anyway I had to call to verify some things and the CS hearing clerk of court was trying to clarify and layout what I submitted and what exw submitted because it was conflicting, It was so funny and hilerious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I was trying explain it to clerk and she was getting confused and flustered because she saw exw submiited lies, expecially the one lie exw said OD is Not 18 but 17, however OD just turned 19 last weekend. So the clerk started asking questions then dropped the subject fast seeing the lies before her eyes to avoid legal issues and then It was almost like in the comedy of " who's on first and who's on third?, who's on second? well who's on third <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ..... Finally they transfered me before jumpping overboard <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and said I need to be sworn under oath at a place of notary on the day of the hearing next week since its via telephone and I'm 1,200 miles away, notary has to be standing right there next to me.

This is going to be good, blatant extortion is written all over those documents and the clerk saw it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . Who knows they may haul exw off to prison for doing what she's done, that's not my desire to see that happen but what can you do? Living the lie and life of adultery only bleeds into lying to other people as well. She has 3 lies she has to answer to on that day under oath.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/11/03 07:10 PM
FAA ...I agree with Wallace...It sure does look like your stbxw wants it all. Maybe she's also hoping that you wouldn't want her - as the mother of your children - to not "be there" for them when they get home from school. Do you know if there are alternatives for her as a working mom? (Things like after school care, etc...) Don't let her lay a guilt trip on you, there are plenty of working mom success stories out there! It sounds like you're being very fair in your settlement and I hope my hubby will do the same for me.

EC - That's interesting and funny, about your conversation with the clerk of court. When is that hearing date? Keep us posted, ok?

Wallace , I guess it's somewhat comforting to know you're not alone in the "haunted" boat. As Fingers said, perhaps it's a new phase to recovery. Maybe ask around some of your divorce support group friends and see what their take is on it.

Relady - How are you doing? When I don't see you for a few days I worry, LOL.
I've been looking into flying someplace warm for a few days so watch out - I might show up on your doorstep soon! Or maybe I should wait for the convertible <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hope everyone else has a good week! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ February 11, 2003, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Fingers1258 Re: Tough Love - 02/11/03 08:04 PM
Wallace, thanks for asking how I am doing. Wasn't sure you would remember me. I have become a "lurker" and only a few times a week, but I always check out this thread to see how everyone here is doing. Sometimes it is painful now to come to MB and read all the hurt.

Yesterday was my first anniversary of D-Day and it stirred up a bunch of painful memories. However, it is more my X's D-Day since he lost the best thing in his life (me!!) that day.

I can't complain about anything. I have a wonderful job, supportive friends, family, financial security, etc. I have a nice male friend (just a friend) but I do get lonely occasionally. I miss having a special person around. But I am not going to jump into anything. I did that with my X when we first met and that was a disaster.

As for my XH, as I have stated before, he is the poster boy for bad decisions and why one should not choose infidelity. His twins were born last year(conceived while we were still together) and his former girlfriend is a pit bull taking him to court almost every month for more and more money. He is having serious financial problems, his 16 year old daughter from his first marriage showed up on his doorstep pregnant at Christmas time and is how living with him, his 15 year old son has been in trouble with the law, he has a severe prescription drug problem, his law partner is threatening to dissolve the partnership, he has been hospitalized several times in the last year, his office staff have threatened to quit, and the list goes on and on. I really believe that the divorce took a big toll on his mental health. I was always the steadying force in his life.

All of you seem to be doing well and are very strong people. There is life after divorce. I wouldn't have said that a year ago. And, Wallace, I think I have found closure!! It is what I suspected all along - it just takes time and a lot of prayer.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/11/03 10:17 PM
Hi All,

EC...

After reading your post, I could actually imagine what you were going through with the Court clerk... LOL. It's so sad at times... that it does become comical to a degree.

Your exW is very much like mine in the lies and deceptive practice program. They tell so many... they can't keep up with them all.

"It's all just one big lie"!

It's hard to cover all the bases when you live life like that. It all catches up with them when it's all said and done with.

If that telephone conversation with the Court clerk is any indicator of what is coming your way... the actual Court hearing should be a real circus sideshow

Glad to hear that your YD has opened up to you... your OD will eventually follow suit.

avondale...

I talked with my D support group about what was going on concerning the "Haunting". The counselors stated that it was just part of the grieving process. It may be the case... but I don't feel like I'm in that phase of my recovery... I believe I've already been down that road. Maybe it's a subconscience thing that I'm not aware of.

How are you holding up on your end?

Fingers...

I haven't forgotten you. You and I were right in the thick of it at about the same time.

You sound well... but I see that your exH's life circumstance hasn't got any better... in fact it appears that it got a whole lot worse. You have to wonder what runs through their head while all of this is going on. I can only imagine... but I try not to.

I see you remember your "Closure" thread. Were you able to come to closure? I thought that I had come to a certain degree of closure, but here lately... I'm starting to wonder if I really did.

I'm kind of like you... I have a number of days coming up here in the very near future that are going to be somewhat interesting. What use to be my Aniversay, D-Day, Valentines day (major trigger day there as well for me) birthdays, and the list goes on.

Don't be a stranger... stay in touch... it's good to hear from you.

Petvet and relady...

I'm like avondale, I get a little worried when we don't hear from you... especially you Petvet... when your this close to your final Court date.

Let us know how your doing when you get a chance... let us know your O.K.

RMA and WGTT...

Hope everything is going well for both of you.

FAA, THE PITS, and Dave

Hope all is well with you.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 01:01 AM
Hi everyone,

A good friend of WH's called today to let me know that he and WH's brother is going to do an intervention on WH on Friday afternoon. Please pray that he has already hit rock bottom and is ready to give it up and turn his life around.

My stomach is in knots as I am making calls to treatment centers, etc so if he is willing (and only if he is willing) that a plan is already set up. From the detox and or treatment a half way house will be suggested. It's a year long program.

I see an attorney on the 25th so all of this is good timing. There is soooo much fall out from this crap (and I'm being nice) that the effects will ripple for years to come. There's only one way to get thur this and that's to go thru it. My friends here and at home are such a blessing.

I hope everyone is doing well.

D. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 03:50 AM
Hi Guys and Gals,

I just wanted say thanks for all the support over the course of time I've been here on MB's. I've posted for about 1 year now, peeked for about 8 months before posting. Ain't it amazing how many people are watching you, yet you never know how many or who? We have many different people from all walks of life, yet you never know what there nationality is, rich or poor, famous or common everyday joe, all you just know is they are a human being suffering the same thing you are, all our hearts are alike.

Ok, just a little sober talk.

Tonight I was thinking about society and the epidemic of "infidelity and cheating". Since I've been single now my thoughts have been towards staying free from the wrong connections. Just today I was reading about the AIDS epidemic and then I see in the news HIV/AIDS is at it's all time high in America, not Africa, but America, my heart just went out to those who have fallen in that trap, lots of WS's are headed there and even BS's if were not careful and it's sad. I'm talking about Male to Female relationships.

I think in time, alot of those Websites matching people up will turn into a disguise of HIV/AIDS people looking for someone to join up with seeing that Infidelity is on the rise and an epidemic, so many people place fake profiles and computer manipulated photos there it's unreal, however there are some honest people there. If you are a Dv'd BS it's best to keep yourself pure and wait for the right one and don't be in a hurry but get strong. WS's are just hooking up with anybody and it's a very dangerous time out there, many WS's need to run back to there spouses who they forsook before it's too late, HIV can lay dormant in a person 3-10 years before it ever pops up. For this reason thats why the bond of marriage and its convenant is so important, that's one of the best fighters against Aids ever.

Anyway I'm done, I rambled enough, it's our thread, you guys understand.

Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 01:43 PM
Hi all!

I'm still around. My days are getting a little better.

Wallace: If you don't mind, what are in your hauntings? What does your exw be doing in your dreams?

EC: I'm glad you have gotten your court date. Now, your w will have to face the music. You may get a couple of laughs out of it.

Later.
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 04:31 PM
Hello All!!

I have been quite busy these days. I would love to say that things have been getting better, but that's just not the case. I have been separate since January 6th and just found out that my H has been living with OW for at least the last 2 weeks (that is all he will admit to). I knew it in my gut.

He's been sick for the last couple of weeks with the flu. He is such a baby when he's sick and I always took care of him so I knew he would be looking for some TLC. I asked if he wanted to come home until he gets better, but he said he was ok. I knew he was with her, I passed by and sure enough he was there. I flipped out and told him to get his stuff out of the house. I was so angry at the fact that he was to be out on his own trying to sort things out regarding us and he was with her AGAIN! I told him that I have been struggling with the possibility of divorce and this new situation was not helping. His response was - you want a divorce? I said that I want nothing more than to save our marriage, that I don't want to be "just friends" that I was to be his wife, but that I was tired of all the games and that I couldn't take it anymore. That I have had a number to a lawyer sitting on my desk and I try to find a reason every day not to call it, but I was starting to run out of reasons. He was speechless. I don't think he thought I was serious all the other times we discussed our relationship.

He said that he wasn't there for any other reason then that he had no where else to go. He was really sick and he didn't feel comfortable coming home because he knew I would take care of him and that he didn't deserve it. He is really miserable right now, so very unhappy. I almost believe that he is there for no other reason then he feels that he has no where else to go right now. Also, she isn't there much of the time anyway, she visits her mother a lot. He really needs to hit rockbottom but the OW giving him a place to live just kills me. I mean if he was where he really wants to be shouldn't he be happy?

He finally admitted that he needed to speak with someone. He mother has been begging him to talk to their priest but he has been avoiding it. He bascially said that he doesn't think we can make it because he doesn't think he can be happy. My answer was you won't know until you really try and it has to be with OW. We have no future to think about until she's gone. That was last Thursday.

Well, yesterday he met with his priest by his own accord. He called and made the appointment. I know it doesn't sound like much but this was a HUGE step for him. I didn't make a big deal out of it and I am dying to know what was said. I did speak with him afer this meeting, but I really didn't ask any questions. I did tell him that if he wanted to talk about it I would but I am not going to question anything. All he said was that he said to get some professional help.

Alrighty then......back in limbo. I just don't know what to make of any of this. Just when I am ready to cut the cord, he does something like seek help and I get all confused again. Like I shouldn't be giving up hope yet. But I tell you (and I told him also), every day he is living there with her is pushing me closer and closer to getting a divorce.

Just another day in paradise - especially with Valentine's Day right around the corner and my dauthers christening a few days after that (which is also my birthday!!)

Oh the JOY! Thanks, just needed to vent today.

Hope all is well with everyone!!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 05:51 PM
Hi Everyone,

I hope all is well. It's been raining here for the last 2 days, so I've been working from home, can't take the risk of getting wet. LOL Yes, I'm whining about the weather again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace, FAA

Hold on while I change into my 'guru' hat and answer the question about your dreams. There, thats better.

Have you ever been to a motivational seminar or something similiar and have the feeling last for maybe a week and then you're back to your old self? When we're trying to change our attitudes, or our belief systems, we're actually breaking away from a comfort level that we have established for ourselves through the years. When that happens our 'sub-concious' gets an 'out of comfort zone alert' and works hard to bring us back to where our comfort level is.

For example: You're both moving on with your lives, but it is not a level of comfort that you're used to, so your 'sub-concious' that is always working behind the scenes is working overtime to bring you back to your comfort level of many years, which spills over into your dreams. But as you persist in your new way of life, it becomes the norm and your sub-conscious will accept it as new information, however; not without a struggle. That's why many people just give up.

Another example is when there is a lottery winner, they're usually broke before they get their next check! There mind is not equipped to handle success, so the sub-conscious struggles to bring them back to their comfort level which was mediocre living.

Hope this makes sense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Petvet

Thank you sir for the kind words, that is ditto for you. We all know that you and Wallace didn't last long. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Glad to hear you're doing well, how is your son? Is he aware of the 20th?

EC

What a sobering thought. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I wonder if anyone will ever have the nerve to sue those internet dating places for 'alienation of affection'? They should really be screening those profiles a little closer. There are strange people on those sights. My WH is one of them and I Know how strange he is! LOL

WGTT

I will be praying for you that God will give you peace and that whatever the outcome God means it for good. Believe it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The Pits

IMHO, I don't think you'll get through to your 'H' just yet. Now that he is not there, take this time to take 'extreme' care of you. Hard to do, however; necessary. Take an opportunity to read some of our previous posts on this thread, you will find that everyone has walked in your shoes and willing to share their tremendous experience.

RMA, Davepr, Avondale

Hope all is well with you.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/13/03 06:46 AM
Hi Relady -

I totally agree with you that it is basically out of my hands. He knows that I want this marriage but he is the one with the doubts. I mean, he is living with his OW and he still isn't happy - this is what he was leaving us for 8 months ago so why isn't he happy?!?! I mean, they had this great connection <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> - what happened to it?? Hmmmm, could it be that THEIR ENTIRE relationship was a LIE?!?!? Go figure!

It breaks my heart to see him so sad and depressed, but I can't do anything for him. I think the more I do for him the more sad he gets. He says it makes him uncomfortable, that he doesn't deserve it. When he talks like this I figure that there might be hope, that he is seeing what he is missing from his family. But it is also killing me that when he did need someone and someplace to live, it was with HER!!! I do lose hope for my marriage every day now.

So, if I need him I have to call her house?? Isn't it enough that when he is on the phone with me when he is there, she starts talking loudly so I can hear her! Now that's class - my husband has to ask her to be quiet. I enjoy that part because I don't complain about hearing her. I haven't complained about the living situation, but I do let him know I am uncomfortable with it without stressting about it.

I am taking care of me now, I have been for a while. It's just me and the kids. But I see his family almost every day. They watch our kids while I work. My MIL heart is breaking and it kills me to look at her.

The rest of this month is going to be REALLY hard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 07:15 PM
The Pits

Just happened to jump back in and see your post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he is living with his OW and he still isn't happy - this is what he was leaving us for 8 months ago so why isn't he happy?!?! I mean, they had this great connection </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First of all, happiness is a feeling. It is a conscious choice to be happy. No one wakes up happy every day although a WS has the misconception that this is supposed to happen and when it doesn't, their off to see the wizard (OW, OM) for a happiness pill. LOL Although they never find it because the 'wizard' moved and left no forwarding address, so they just keep looking going from one wizard to the next.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It breaks my heart to see him so sad and depressed, but I can't do anything for him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Usually on this thread, I just beat up on the guys. Namely Wallace & Petvet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Why does that break your heart? He hasn't changed in 8 months. Wasn't he sad and depressed before he left? Save your heart for your children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do lose hope for my marriage every day now.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Never lose hope, then you become defeated and that is a heavy weight. If you're familiar with 'fog' you would know that your H is in the middle of it. So, he is not thinking clearly and you can't get through.

I will end with this. My advice to you would be to Never, Never, Never call the OW house to speak with your H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Never need anything that bad. Are you familiar with Plan B? If not, get familiar. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 07:37 PM
Thanks Relady, you made me laugh - wizards!! I needed that!

As for him changing, he has. He went from being completely an unremorseful jerk and blaming me for the A to being completely remorseful, apologetic and depressed. He feels that too much damage has been done to go forward. Because of this change I had hope for our marriage. We had a couple false recoveries.

Oh, don't doubt that I will ever call her house again. If I never talk to her it will be too soon. I didn't blame her for a thing until I called her the first time and found out he lied to her about everything - shocking!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But since she didn't remove herself from the situation I blame her just as much as I blame him. She is now enabling him in not coming home to his family. I can't imagine what she would want from him, their entire relationship was a lie, she's 23 years old and my H is going to be 36. What a joke!

Anyway - after all the venting, I am starting to feel a little better. Thank you for chatting with me, you've been great!!!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 08:16 PM
EC - that is really food for thought - STDs and dating services. Yikes! I'll just trust God for any future change in my social calendar, thank you very much, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL

The Pits - I think that is VERY encouraging that your H went to see a priest. I know you're probably in an "extra-stressed" state right now with christening, birthday, and all the other stuff. Hang in there . You are indeed in limbo and you may stay there for a while. Relady gave you great advice. Remember, he is in the fog and is NOT going to be happy or make sense right now. His happiness shouldn't be dependant on a person anyways. It comes from within and so let him wallow in his own misery for a while. I also agree that it sounds like you might should be in Plan B, but only you know the answer to that. Do be familiar with it, though. And DON'T LOSE HOPE!

Relady - I think your comfort zone analogy for hauntings makes a lot of sense.

WGTT - I pray that the intervention is a success. I've had to do that with a couple of people and those who really have hit bottom DO succeed. Sounds like the timing of things will be very good!

DAVEPR - Where are you? Are things OK at your house? Have you forgotten about us?

Wallace - I'm sure you, in your social whirl, have plans for Friday night. Care to let us in on them? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> How jealous should we all be??

Petvet, RMA, FAA - hope your week is going well!

If I missed anyone, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I'm sorry

<small>[ February 12, 2003, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 08:51 PM
Thank Avondale - I appreciate the encouraging words.

I know I belong in Plan B, but am having great difficulty following through on it. I have, thought, limited my contact with him in many ways. I do not initiate contact with him, unless it is necessary, i.e., financial issues, kids, etc. I don't call just to say Hi anymore. I have told him that it hurts me that he is living there and that there is no hope for us as long as he is there. I pretty much said a Plan B letter to him. Basically, I stay to myself and let him see the kids when he can. His work schedule is so erratic that I can't put him to a strict schedule. Also, my kids want to see him.

Speaking of my kids, I was so excited yesterday. I had a parent/teacher conference yesterday and I was afraid all of this was going to affect my son at school. Well, it went wonderful. She had only great things to say about him and I was thrilled. I am trying to keep things as normal as I can, guess I am succeeding at something <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As for him seeing the priest, I am hopeful and thankful for that. He really needs to talk to someone. He is one messed up pup right now.

Well, I am going home now. Thanks to all of you for your continued support.

Hope you all have a great night. Stay warm! By me it is going to be FREEZING tongiht!!!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 09:08 PM
Hi All,

See that this thread is pretty busy today... and I hope everyone is having the best day they can.

WGTT...

It is great news that some people care enough to do an intervention with your husband. Hopefully your "H" is willing to listen. In most cases... they have to want help as bad as everyone wants them to seek help... before they will walk the straight line permanently. My prayers will be with you... hopefully your "H" sees the light.

The fall-out from all of it, is quite far reaching. I myself never realized the magnatude of it all... until I went through it myself.

EC...

I have to agree with what you posted. There is so many STDs out there in addition to HIV that it is at an epidemic level.

I have been lucky so far... I was faithful during my "M", and I haven't been running around trying to sew my oats since she left. It is scary to think about. I've heard through the rumour mill that my exW may not be so lucky. She may have started getting her Godsmacks already. I guess you do indeed reap what you sew.

For the time being... I'm happy right where I am... it can always get better... and I'm sure with God's help it will.


Petvet...

The "Hauntings" that I've been going through are somewhat hard to describe... but I'll give it a try.

When I'm sleeping, and sometimes when I'm not sleeping... I can feel her presence. It's like she is there... with me, but in actuality... I know she is not. It's like her spirit is there... it's like I can feel her spirit. It's like she is standing right there... watching... it's a creepy feeling

I can't remember anything in particular as far as my dreams that I have with my exW in it. I just know that she is in my dreams here lately. It wakes me out of dead sleep. I've shot up right out of bed in a cold sweat after a few of them... it's pretty intense. I don't like it at all... and I wish it would end. After one of these episodes... I start praying to please let it stop.

Your one week away from your Court date... anything new, and how are you holding up?

ThePits...

You are in fact in "Limbo", and it's not a good place to be. Keep taking care of yourself (Plan A) and try not let your "H's" actions affect you too much (easier said than done).

You will know when he is ready to come home and make his "M" work... there will be no doubt in your mind. He may be making some positive moves toward achieving that... but it doesn't sound like he is ready to commit to the "M" at this point. He must be willing to break all contact with the "OW", and stick with it before you will be able to salvage your "M".

relady...

I have been to a few motivational seminars... and I think you are on to somethiing there.

The "subconscious self" is fighting with the "conscious self". Moving from the comfort zone to an unexplored area that the subconscious self doesn't feel comfortable with. Did that make any sense to you?

Anyway... it all is making sense to me... and I agree with your summation.

Thanks for the insight on that, for a moment... I thought I was going nuts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

avondale, RMA, FAA, and Is It Too Late...

I hope your day is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 09:28 PM
Hi avondale...

We cross posted... and I had to come back and give you an update on my "Love Life". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I sent my "lady friend" some roses for Valentine's Day. She won't get the roses until the 14th.

On the card I asked her if she would be my "Valentine".

I'm going to take her out for a nice quiet dinner on Valentine's Day.

Do you think she will be my Valentine? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

How are you doing avondale? Anything new on your end?

I sure am asking a lot of questions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope your day is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/12/03 10:21 PM
WALLACE

This lady IS your Valentine, not will she be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

D.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/13/03 04:11 AM
Hi all! This thread has been busy today.

ThePits: You are indeed in limbo. It is a horrible feeling, but you must learn to deal with it for now. I would strongly recommend that you find something to do on Valentine's Day. Just get out of the house even if you have to treat yourself to dinner. Your H might be headed in the right direction. Give it a little more time. I would not call the OW house. Plan B may be in order.

Wallace: Will she be your Valentine? Yessssssssssssssssssss! Promise us one thing, that you guys won't get married. You may want to carry a fire extinguisher with you to cool things down.

Relady: Yes, you are sending the rain to us again.What are you doing for Valentine's?

Avondale: How about you, sis?

EC: Do you have any plans for Friday?

Me: No, I have not told son about next week. I am trying to forget about it.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/13/03 12:31 PM
My plans for Valentine's Day - I was planning to not do anything except to drown my sorrows in a box of Godiva chocolates...however, a friend has asked me out so I'm going to do that. Don't worry, she's the wife of one of the elders in our church (he's out of town on business) so this is all OK, lol.

Some of us will have to live a romance vicariously through Wallace and his plans for that evening. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

How about you, Petvet - any plans that you're brave enough to share?
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/13/03 07:41 PM
Hi all,

I think my "lady friend" will be my "Valentine" as well. I just thought I would throw in a little humor into my post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WGTT...

You, and all of the other special ladies on this thread must have ESP. You are all way ahead of me.

We are all very lucky to have the type of wisdom that we have on this thread... everyones input is very much appreciated.

avondale...

You had me reeled in on that last post as I was reading it. I said... "Oh Oh... here it comes, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> and then you set the record straight.

I thought you were going to drop a bomb shell on us for a moment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You had me fooled. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet...

I'm not planning on getting married... but you know the old saying... "never say never".

Could this be a preview of things to come? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Stay tuned... it may get real interesting in the not too distant future... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

You know when I start using all these Gremlins... there may be something blowing in the wind... but that's down the road a ways.

ThePits...

I think you need to make yourself a little less accessible (did I spell that right? probably not.) to your "H". Even more than what you have... I noticed somewhat of a pattern with the WS. "They always want what they can't have".

If he thinks your moving on with your life... he might take a second look at what he has got going on.

I'm not quite ready to tell you to go into Plan B quite yet. Only becuae he is taking some positive steps in his life. However... if he falters, or stays stagnet in his situation... you may want to consider going to Plan B. I would not call him, especially when the OW is around... that's a lose, lose, situation all the way around.

In fact... as long as he is still seeing the OW, work your Plan A until you feel you have exhausted any love you may have left for him (without being a doormat). If nothing changes you may want to consider going into Plan B.

Wishing you all a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 13, 2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/15/03 06:45 AM
Happy Valentine's Day Everyone!!

I have to admit I thought today was going to be much harder than it has been. H left me a box of chocolates and a card at my MIL house last night for me to get when I picked up the kids. There was a card from him that simply stated "Thinking of you, because I care..." For me it, under the circumstances it was perfect - Not to mushy or phony. I think by getting it last night made today a little easier.

But he calls me today and I get frustrated again. He called to ask if he could take money out of the accout, but won't say what the reason is. This aggravates me, he has major money issues which is one reason we argue a lot. I have to watch the account on a daily basis to keep tabs on him. That's the negative part, the positive part is that he usually doesn't let me know, I always find out after the fact (after I have written out a bunch of bills). I asked why he needed the money, he said he couldn't say. Of course you know what is going through my mind. I told him that if he was taking the money out to spend on her that the answer was no. He said he wansn't but still wouldn't tell me why. He said he didn't want to argue and to forget he asked. I said that I didnt' want to argue either but you are calling me on Valentine's Day to get money out of our account - what do you think I am thinking. He agreed with me and we hung up the phone. It's driving me crazy!

But he did also say that since it is going to snow he is working (he works for a municipality so he does snow plowing)from Midnight tonight to Noon, so if they did have plans they will be short and sweet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

He also said that he would come by after his shift tomorrow and check on us and give me a chance to get out and run some errands.

Wallace - I agree with you, I need to be more unaccessable. It's strange but it does work. I have to admit though, after I made a comment to him that I look for a reason everyday not to contact a lawyer he has been a little different. It's not much, but a shimmer of hope. Also, I asked if he wanted to see a counselor together and he said that the priest said before we do that to see one on his own. OK, so he's looking to see someone for himself. Something else hopeful. I was impressed he is even considering it since he was adamant about not going to see anyone just a month ago.

Anyway - I hope you and your lady friend have a wonderful dinner tonight.

PetVet - I do consider Plan B everyday, but with the kids it is near impossible. I thought my MIL would support it, but she doesn't seem to understand it when I explain it. She thinks I am pushing him away and that it not right. Oh well, I will figure something out.

I hope all is well for you and you have a great Valentine's day with your son. How is he doing in school lately. I always wonder as I have a son the same age and I am afraid of what this mess my H and I are in does to him. The kids deserve better than all this garbage! I hope all is well.

Avondale - I am with you on the chocolates! Since my H bought me a 2lb box from the kids, I am planning on diving in tonight! Just what I needed for my diet - CHOCOLATE!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Well, I have to go now. Going to my son's school, they are having a Valentine's Day party.

Best wishes to everyone!
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/15/03 06:49 AM
WillGetThruThis..I forgot to ask what is happening with the intervention? I hope all goes well!

I was just thinking of you!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/14/03 07:38 PM
ThePits , I can understand your MIL situation; I've been going through similar scenario.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I thought my MIL would support it, but she doesn't seem to understand it when I explain it. She thinks I am pushing him away and that it not right. Oh well, I will figure something out.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like you, I am on good terms with my in-laws. They are very saddened at what their son has done and the choices he's making. My in-laws are older and my father in-law is not in great health. And I know you understand that blood is thicker than water. I wanted to let you know what happened with me, so you can make sure you aren't caught off guard by anything. It's a mother thing, my MIL couldn't NOT be in contact with her son.

My H was thinking in his foggy state that because his parents were even talking to him, they were supporting his decision to move out (and I think he even took it farther in his fog to think they were OK with his infidelity which is so NOT true <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). It began to affect ME because here I was, trying to not let my emotions overcome me regarding H, trying to stay distant for my sanity. Since they invited him to their house for the annual family Xmas Eve thing, he also took that as a sign they were all OK with him. But they told me emphatically they weren't. But it was the holidays, so it probably would have been harder on THEM to not include him. (They also invited me but I declined, obviously.)

Bottom line is, due to my H's insistance that they condone what he's doing, I have had to separate myself somewhat from my in-laws too. We used to talk each week on the phone, (not about marriage but other things going on in our lives - after all, they're my kids grandparents) but to be honest, whatever I said probably was said to hubby, because MIL didn't have much else to talk to him about, or because he may have asked. So now we talk less often, and I am careful about what I say.

Anyway, just wanted to give you a "heads up" that in the future, you might have to cut back on how deeply you are involved with his parents too. Especially if they continue to not be tough when you're trying to be. It is just harder for a parent to do Tough Love than it is for a spouse. I'm doing both, so I know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ February 14, 2003, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/14/03 08:17 PM
Hi Guys and Gals,

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> HAPPY VALENTINES DAY!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope everyone is doing great!!

At work we had a Valentines Day fruit fest and I made ice smoothies for everybody, I had that mixer crankin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Here's a real testimony!! My brother is here for the weekend, in 1998 he was diagnosed with diabeties and highblood presure, he was medicated for both. He told me he went to the Dr 2 weeks ago and they declared him free of diabeties, and can't find a trace of it!!! Dr's are scratchin there heads. Now they are about to remove him from the bloodpressure medication in 2 more weeks, He's praisin and thanking God because he knows it's a miracle that God did!!

I am so happy for him!! We need to ask and see God perfom more miracles like this, to me this is proof that you have to see yourself walking healthy again and God will answer you according to your faith to believe in him. My brother could have given up years ago and said there's no hope but he didn't, he started living life despite what came his way, so we must do the samething and realize our pain is not forever and realize a blessing is in your path much greater that what you thought but you have to see yourself healed, you have to believe life can get better than all the betrayal you just went through and God can remove the pain and bring you JOY!.

At first my brother was in the mind set of things would get worse over the years and was down many times thinking how life was where he was at the moment in a cloud of despair at times, feeling unloved, life turned for the worst etc.... but God had another plan and stopped it all, So your pain or sickness does not have to be forever, God has his final say so on the matter, Praise God!!

Me: My CS hearing date is Monday Feb 17th, we'll see how that goes, it will be the moment of truth, I'm gonna have all my facts written down before me so I don't get nervous and forget one thing, I must expose the lies and extortion to bag this thing up once and for all.

Take Care.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/14/03 08:46 PM
Hi All,

I would like to extend a very "Happy Valentine's Day" to everyone... and hope your day goes well.

ThePits...

Your "H" sending you a box of chocolates for Valentine's day is a positive sign...as well as him considering counseling... that's a plus in your favor.

I may be seeing shadows in the dark... but I'm seeing a mixed message coming from your "H". The reason why I say this, is because sometimes a WS will sometimes be a walking contradiction in terms of what they say, and what they do.

In other words, you never really know where you stand with them at any given time.

Your "H" is showing some positive signs... that's why I am not suggesting that you go into Plan B as of yet. Now the question is... is he really trying to get help... in order to salvage your "M"... or is this a tactic to try to buy him some time until he sorts things out, and feels secure and comfortable with what he is doing (i.e., seeing the OW).

Stay in Plan A, but take care of yourself. Your situation could turn on a dime by the sounds of it... hopefully it will be for the better, and not the worse. I'm very skeptical about him at this point... especially with the need for money and keeping it a secret... that worries me.

Prayers to you that your "H" seeks the help he may need in order to put your "M" back together.

As always... avondale gave you some very good insight as to how to deal with your in-laws.

avondale...

I agree with you completely concerning the in-laws. I completely ceased all contact with my in-laws months ago... September of last year was the last time I spoke with any of my exW's family members if I recall correctly.

My exW's family has not spoken to any of my children that are still living with me since then either. IMHO they have some severe issues amongst themselves that they all need to address.

How is that box of Godiva chocolates tasting? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

relady...

I'm getting nervous... hope you are doing well today.

Petvet...

You're coming down the home stretch there my brother... how are you holding up... and how is your son doing?

EC, RMA, Dave, FAA, Is It Too Late...

Hope you are all doing well.

WGTT...

My prayers are with you... I hope the intervention is successful. Let us know how it went.

I hope I didn't miss anyone... if I did I apologize.

Everyone have a great day as well as a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/15/03 05:02 AM
The intervention was postponed by BIL till 11 am Saturday (15th).

Thanks for your prayers and thoughts,

D.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/16/03 11:58 AM
Hi all! I hope everyone had a good Valentine's Day. I had a good Valentine's Day under the circumstances. I had a big surprise waiting for me in the parking lot.(Darn!!!! I got to learn how to use those icons.)

Avondale: How was the chocolates? You better stock up on chocolates now because the price of the sweetees will be going up a lot later this year. It's nice that you had someone to spend time with.

EC: Good luck buddy with your court case tommorrow. Let your exw be countable for what she has done.

ThePits: I would hold off on plan b because your H seems to be in the grey area; however, I would be less assessible. You are correct it is very hard to implement a plan b when you have kids. You can limited contact by using your caller id and not calling him unless it is neccesary.

Wallace: OK, fess up. What happened on Valentine's Day? It got real warm here in the south yesterday. It must have been all the heat created from your date.

Me: I am dreading Thursday. I don't know what to expect. Oh! EC and Wallace, were you more anticipating your freedom or getting rid of all of the craziness which was the double lives of your exw's and the trouble they brought to the table right before your D?

Later.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/16/03 11:29 PM
Hi,
I've been at a soccer tournament most of the weekend. WH never met with WIL, denied that he has a problem, that he can quit anytime ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> yah, right)that he is comming back to Florida as soon as he completes the transfer of the company.

I am freaking out - I don't want him here, he's arrogant, rude and on drugs or crashing. D. goes balistic when he's here and spends most of the time away.

Gotta go, it's D's 17 birthday & we are doing a family dinner at a restaurant tonight. D finally got a car - a used Honda Civic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Thank God, I can have my SUC back!!!!

I hope all is well with everyone.

D.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/17/03 03:19 AM
EC - Just wanted you to know I'll be praying for you tomorrow. Although the courts here are canceled due to all the icy weather. Hopefully yours won't be postponed and you can get this behind you. I know you'll do fine in your presentation! Get back with us as soon as you can with the outcome.

WGTT - I'm sorry the intervention didn't happen, and I imagine you're discouraged. I hope you know that's not uncommon, it's more like a false start. Other opportunities may present themselves. Does this mean you'll have to go ahead with the decision about getting a D now? I got the impression that might be on hold due to latest developments (before this weekend). Keep us posted.

Petvet - You had a surprise waiting for you in the parking lot? Come on, spill the beans! I promise not to tease ya too bad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And why will the price of chocolates go up later this year? Is this some sort of economic turnaround that Wall Street predicted? btw, you're still on my list for prayer Thursday. I know you have mixed feelings, hang in there!

I'm officially worried about Dave and Relady now

Hope everyone else survived the Valentine's Day storm! I was stuck inside with my box of Godivas Sat & Sun because of the weather. Guess how many are left? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/18/03 06:32 AM
Hi Guys and Gals,

Well I had my day of court for the CS modification its final. Instead of $800 I was paying they modified it to $450 but then said I still owed arrearage so that brought it up to $600 but then exw owe's me back support only from Oct when I filed instead of May, that will bring it down a little. Lesson to be learned, In FL you can only claim overpaid CS from the date you filed for it and not the months owed to you, therefore I lost 4 months of over payments, but overall I'm paying less, any payments I make extra reduces the amount they withhold from my payroll so thats good. I have to pay until May 2004 when YD finishes HS.

During the session exw was lying so much it was unreal. I tried to contain myself because I was fumming. I did bring up the issues of exw's lying on her papers submitted to the court and the CS Officer did acknowledge exw did commit "PERJURY" stating OD was NOT 18 and in highschool and told me to file it with State Attorneys office for prosecution...So she's in some hotwater there..

Anyway she can't come after me no more, she's been sealed off for good. Now I'm trying to regroup, she sounded so vindictive and full of greed, she's a angry woman.

Take Care.
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 02/17/03 08:13 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the CS Officer did acknowledge exw did commit "PERJURY" stating OD was NOT 18 and in highschool and told me to file it with State Attorneys office for prosecution...So she's in some hotwater there.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EC please consider that filing does NOT mean you would be acting out of vengeance, but out of a moral imperative for justice for not only yourself but others in the future.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/18/03 01:02 AM
EC
Well you got through it my brother friend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I know you're glad to have that CS hearing behind you. And it sounds as if the amount is fair - do you agree?

Have you considered informing your daughters about the outcome? That way, if (or when) there is less disposable income for their household with mom, they will know that it was because the court changed it and NOT because you are paying less (because your exw could lie and say you're holding back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

I agree with TMCM (or is he now only CM?-- I miss his coffee chant on the signature line, LOL). Are you considering filing with the State Attorney's office about her lying about OD's age?

I think you're going to be fine regrouping!
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/18/03 03:38 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway she can't come after me no more, she's been sealed off for good. Now I'm trying to regroup, she sounded so vindictive and full of greed, she's a angry woman.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">EC, I bet your glad that part is over!

Avondale, I still have an appointment with the attorny on the 25th, and never thought about changing it. Once I meet and ask questions, I can determine what the best course of action is for me and the kids.

You are right, it can take more than once. Sometimes they never get it. In a conversation with WH's friend, I told him that just because it didn't work now, doesn't mean it never will.

WH still keeps saying he will be home for his 50th BD (23rd). A part of me says to call and not let him come to the house till he gets help and another part of me says to let him come home and then do it.

All in all, I don't want WH for a husband the way he is. If he was striving to be the man God intended him to be then it would be up to God to show us how to get past all this F***ing crap (I don't usually swear) As I am writing this, part of me says I am F'g crazy to even consider that! But I have seen miracles in AA. There are many with long term sobriety that are some of the finest people I know. I have also seen people who have rode the "dump truck" all the way to the dump and end up dying a nasty alcoholic death.

Did you say you dealt with this in your family? Was it your kid(s)?

To everyone else I hope you have a great evening. I have barely been skimming these boards so I don't mean to ignor you, just about on overload these days.

D.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/18/03 03:39 AM
coffeman,

Whaddya do, switch to decaf? lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

D.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/18/03 03:55 AM
Tmcc and avondale - I hear what you're saying, it's not being vindictive but responsible. She purposed to extort money from me and submitted false documents to do it. I wonder how my OD would feel if she knew exw used her as the center of the lie.

The court dropped OD and said I was done after she got out of HS in May 2002 but because I failed to file CS Mod I paid longer than I should have.

Should I tell YD/OD? I probably should because any seperate payments I make from the normal amout will reduce the monthly amount I pay and by the end of the year they will see less and less income to the house.

At this point as you can tell, I can't put anything past exw, she'll try anything. This is what I mean by she has the kids brainwashed, she will lie even if it means breaking the law and so blatant and bold with it. Prior to this my family and friends around me thought I was over dramatizing what I've been going through since 2000 until they actually saw her do this and they now know what I've been through more than ever.

It's amazing, in early 2001 I told exww, I said the same law you use against me unjustly while you're in your affairs and adultery will oneday bite you back and be used against you and here we are in 2003 dealing with her "Perjury" without me ever trying nothing, she always had the upper hand and just dragged me along through the legal system at her will. She's been the spider binding people and things in her web with her poison words and actions, affairs, deceit and lying.

A spiders greatest fear is "fire" it's web is weak and powerless in it's presence....Let your passion burn and you watch your spider [WH/WW] succumb to feel powerless, when they realize they can't hold you down or back, they will eventually chase you. Shake the web and watch them come running. You see, they know you're good but have you wrapped up too for a later time, they say let us be friends to keep the web attached just in case, but shake the web and watch them come running they think they got something new or something is getting away and they go running after it.
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 02/18/03 05:14 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by WillGetThruThis:
<strong>coffeman,

Whaddya do, switch to decaf? lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

D.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> NO WAY. Heaven forbid <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

What happened was that I was experimenting with changing my username and I couldn't get the old TMCM back. That's what happens when you fool around. I feel so guilty <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/18/03 11:55 AM
Hi all!

EC: I'm glad that everything worked out to some degree to your benefit concerning the CS. I would follow through with the perjury charge against your ex with the district attorney; however, I would not expect the DA to go after her real hard, but at least file the paperwork. You made it through the court session.

Coffeeman: Where have you been? I'm glad you are back with us.

WGTT: You seem to be torturing yourself about whether to file or not. Go with your intuition and not with your heart. Your heart can guide you in the wrong direction.

Avondale: The reason chocolate prices are going up is that there is a war in the Ivory Coast where over 70% of cocoa is produce. Unless the civil war ends soon, prices will increase. As you well know, several countries in Africa are having civil wars.

Me: Two days and counting.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/18/03 02:02 PM
Hi All,

Petvet - I agree I need to follow through on the perjury, I know I won't be doing it for the reason to see her go to prison but she does need to be accountable for her actions...

It's like this, when a child steals and are old enough to understand the legal aspect of what they've done, oneway to cure that child is to take your child and place him or her in the hands a police officer down at the jail and let them spend some time there as they would treat a adult offender, boy that will sober that kid up quick...my brother did that with his son very early so that it wouldn't spread to the next one.

So exw needs to get into the hands of the law and get entangled in the legal system of her own mess she created, that way she'll know she better not ever try to steal from me again. So I'm going to pursue this perjury issue.

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/18/03 05:01 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a very good weekend, as well as a "Happy" Valentines day.

I wasn't around yesterday due to the fact that I just am starting to get back up and around from a dinner that I ate this past Saturday night. Seems that all of a sudden... I am allergic to 'Jumbo Shrimp". Had a very bad reaction to it... first time ever. So I guess no more shrimp for me... it's too bad because I love sea food... especially shrimp.

EC...

Congrats on your court case! Except for the perjury charge... you should be winding down with the courts... to bad she had to perjure herself.

I would try to explain the situation as best you can to your daughters... shed some light on it from your perspective... rather than have it a one sided story coming from your exW.

If the Courts are going to follow through with the perjury charges... I would follow through with it as well.

Petvet...

When I was coming up on my final Court hearing... I was looking to end all the craziness. Unfortunately it didn't end... as I have the attorneys in motion as we speak to have my exW's name removed from my house and car titles, as well as the contempt of court CS issue. So as you can see... it's not over with... I'm not sure if it will ever end.

My prayers are with you, as you are very near your final court day. Have you had any contact with your "stbxw", and has she had contact with your son? How is your son doing?

Hnag in there... it won't be as bad as you may think.

WGTT...

I'm sorry to hear that the intervention did not take place. In order to lead a full life of sobriety... they have to want it as bad as all that are concerned. IMHO he doesn't appear to be even close to acheiving that. In order for them to come out of it... most... need to do a crash and burn... before they will straighten out as sad as that is to say. I would insist that he refrain from any drugs or alchohol before he enters your home... if that is his intentions. You don't need anymore craziness going on at this point... your doing too good to allow that to happen.

avondale...

I'm with you... I'm getting worried about relady. She usually checks in on Mondays... hopefully we will hear from her today. Dave is probably doing well... otherwise we would of heard something from him.

Did you save me any chocolates? Hopeflly I'm not allergic to them... I just received a whole box of them from my "lady friend" for Valentine's Day.

Me...

I had a very nice Valentine's Day... until the allergic reaction with the shrimp.

This is a very interesting week for me as well. My Birthday is Saturday... and what use to be my wedding anniversary is on Monday (I feel triggers coming already). So it's still getting interesting.

I hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/18/03 07:13 PM
I forgot this one, exw tried to get me to support OD 19 for the next 4-5 years. Exw submitted in writting this is what I wanted to do just because I said I wanted to help OD while she is away from home attending college which she is not away, the hearing officer backed exw down and said, "The law does not require him to support her past 18 and out of HS and it could only happen if you two agreed in which I see your exh is no way in agreement with you, therefore your OD is emancipated", so that was another pop to her bubble of lies.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/19/03 02:07 AM
petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WGTT: You seem to be torturing yourself about whether to file or not. Go with your intuition and not with your heart. Your heart can guide you in the wrong direction.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you, I needed to read that because my head head is saying file for dv & get away from all this craziness. My head also reconizes when I am not feeling right about a situation that is not good for me. My heart lies to me and tells me we will live happily ever after.I am not going to settle for crumbs.

What Wallace said to you about it may not be "over" when everything is finalized, may likely be true. darn, they literally "screwed" us, now they want to .... well never mind, I'll stop here, just feeling antsy.

Wallace I hope everything is ok. Allergic reactions can be very severe. I used to work in an allergy clinic where violent allergic reactions could very easily happen. Glad you had a wonderful Valentines Day.

EC I have read most of what has been going on with your EXW & it never ceases to amaze me that liars think they are so smart and that everyone will believe what they say. Grrrr. EC, do think this through, I hear what others are saying and agree but also consider, how important is it? Is it really important to you to go through all of this? I am not saying that you shouldn't, just to really think this through as there may be consequences that are greater than you thought.

me My OS is really (REALLY) sick. He went back to Jacksonville today against my wishes cuz his roomate had to get back. I know he's 21, but I'm still a MOM! He may have shingles. UUUGGGHH, it is so painful from the looks of it.

To everyone else I hope you have had a good day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> will have a great night <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and an even better tomorrow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

D.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/19/03 11:56 AM
Hi all!

WGTT: Make sure that you keep a check on your son because shingles is nothing to play with. I had them, and they are ugly and painful. Is your son going through a lot of stress?

Wallace: I hope you feel better. My son's mother has spent time with him. I realize that I will have to keep my attorney for the next 13 or 14 years. I just want to detach myself from the craziness.

Relady: Where are you?

Dave has disappeared!

Me: One day and counting.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/19/03 02:55 PM
Hi All,

Petvet - Wow, one more day my heart goes out to you, I know the feeling, very mixed emotions, but you'll make it.

WGTT - Yes, I've been thinking if I want to spend my time emotionally trying to convict exw and the more I think about, the more I want to abandon the idea. At this point I'm done I can completly move on and shut the door. The hearing officer did acknowledge she committed perjury so she is aware what she did, does she have any guilt from it? I don't know, will she try to take me to court again? I doubt it, now that she knows that's hanging over head I'm sure she wants to stir clear of a court room again. I'm sure if YD wanted to come live with me I'm sure she wouldn't put up a fight because she would fear she may get questioned and face the perjury issue again....So she kinda did her ownself in....

After I stepped back and looked, I really got everything I ask for Monday, was just hoping for a little less on CS payments but as the Hearing Officer said it's only 14 more months and to file the emancipation for YD in April 2004, plus she said for every extra dollar I pay reduces the monthly amount between now and then....So at this point I may just let it all die and rid myself of exw issues and let the guilt of her affairs and other things stay in her circle....I did let OD know what happened just in case exw lied and also with OD coming of age I let her know that I'm still there for her as I was before the court got involved.....

I look and ask?

What has exw gained by her affairs and adultery?? Nothing but shame, guilt, disaster and embarrasment..Can you imagine a woman that got caught by her Husband, kids heard content of her conversations with those men, she's hit hard financially, then she's so desperate for money she submits false documents to the court and told you committed perjury!...She's punished herself alone I don't need to do anything, she's not a happy person at all, how could you be after all that?....She has been with OM for 2+ years now but things are not going well....

Take Care
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/19/03 05:33 PM
Hey All,

I hope you're all having a wonderful week. It's been very hectic for me. I've been concentrating on my business and really just taking a break. When I get distracted, my business suffers! (the life of a commissioned salesperson! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

I had a great Valentine's Day, I allowed no triggers in. It's amazing what your mind can do when you train it.

Petvet,

I'll be praying for you tomorrow. Try to stay up mentally, it's really all that we can control.

Wallace,

You just gave us that 'shrimp story' so you wouldn't have to tell us what really happened. First the fire, then the shrimp, you're just trying to throw us off the scent! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
We all know April 1st is coming. You can tell me, I promise to be gentle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've been thinking if I want to spend my time emotionally trying to convict exw and the more I think about, the more I want to abandon the idea. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I definitely agree with you. It's really not worth it, she is suffering enough. If you rrreeeaalllyy wanted to, you could give her the 14 months CS up front and by the time she gets to next month it will be gone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Then she has no place else to go. And you can live in peace.

WGTT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I needed to read that because my head head is saying file for dv & get away from all this craziness. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Will that really get you away from the craziness? Are those your emotions talking or have you really inquired of the Lord? As you know, in Him You Can escape. So don't make any emotional decisions. Spend time with the Lord, and let Him lay out His plan for you.
Be Still (quiet your mind) and move forward at the right time, not to escape but in Purpose.

Check out the Bible Studies on rejoicenet.net, they have been a blessing to me. It's Charlyne at Rejoice Ministries.

Avondale,

How are you? How did your H respond to your tax situation?

Everyone Else,

Have a great and wonderful day.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/19/03 05:56 PM
Petvet -just wanted you to know I was thinking about you - and will be praying extra for you tomorrow! Let us know how it goes.

Wallace - At least your throat didn't swell up, or did it? Sorry about the shrimp thing - we have great shrimp here on the southern coast. Happy Birthday!

WGTT - Sorry your son is sick - it's hard to turn off the "mom" button! You know what Petvet said is true about our hearts/heads; and we just all need to hear it (or read it) as a reminder. I am sure I'll need y'all to remind me of it later this summer.

EC - WGTT made a very good argument for dropping the court issue. I hadn't thought of that at all. Isn't it wonderful that there is such a great group on this thread? You get all the collected wisdom from a diverse bunch of people...so when one misses, the other one aims straight!

Relady - GREAT to hear from you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Me - Hubby is dragging his feet about giving me info for taxes. I know I really caught him by surprise with my filing separately. I have a feeling he didn't pay any estimated taxes for his playing gigs. I may have to get a little tougher about needing the info - at this point all I've done is send two polite, sweet e-mails (cuz I'm a polite, sweet girl). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/19/03 08:06 PM
Hi All,

Petvet...

My prayers are with you and your family. I'm sorry that it has come down to this and your final hearing will be tomorrow.

You most likely will feel almost every emotion that you have ever experienced... but after it is all said and done with... the Lord will grant you a sense of peace that you surely deserve.

May God bless you always

Stay Strong my friend!

EC...

I'm glad that you decided to not pursue your exW on the perjury charges. You really don't need the headache.

I just wanted to clarify... if the courts were going to pursue her on the perjury charges... then and only then would I of participated with the perjury charges. I wouldn't have pursued it independently.

I think you summed it right up... the WS does indeed punish themselves... it's a darn shame though... that we have to be along for the ride during some of their antics. Had I known what I know now... I would of jumped off the bus along time ago. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WGTT...

I think Petvet hit on something there. Sometimes you need to take a step back and take a deep breath long enough to get the full scope of what is truly going on around you.

I go with the gut feel rule though in addition to what my heart and mind is telling me. If it walks and talks like a duck... it most likely is a duck.

You have a good head on your shoulders... I know you won't make any knee-jerk moves.

Hope your son is doing better, and starting to feel well. It's not very much fun... when your children are sick.

I'm doing better now from my shrimping accident... I'm a little weak from all of it... but I think I'll make it.

I did have a good Valentine's Day, and I hope you did as well.

relady...

It's good to hear from you... and I'm glad that your hard at it. I know your saving up for that new car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know... after you mentioned it... I have had a number of things hit me here recently. I think it's Satan attacking me... the closer I try getting to the Lord... the harder Satan tries to throw his 2 cents worth in. The good news is... is Satan is losing the battle.

I'm not trying to throw you off the scent... LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But I've got something here for you that your really going to love. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I know it's early in the whole scheme of things... but I tossed out a subtle hint that I was thinking about the possibilty that somewhere down the road I might want to ask her to marry me... well she was very receptive to the idea... so receptive that's all she has been talking about here lately (hmmmmm... I know that brake pedal is around here somewhere). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

SOoooooo.... After the dust settles and I think I have healed enough... I may ask her to marry me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
I'm not saying that I will ask her to marry me... I may... that's all I am saying (let's see... April Fools day... LOL).

So let the Bloodhounds loose... LOL. They have some tracking to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

avondale...

While I was having that reaction to the shrimp... my throat did swell up, I thought I was going to choke to death there for awhile... it was pretty wild. I came very close to going to the ER.

Bad part about all this... is I love shrimp... I love seafood. Now... I'm scared to death to try to eat any of it. Maybe I'll try just a touch of lobster and see what happens.

FAA, ThePits, and everyone else...

Hope everything is going well.

Have a good day everyone.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/20/03 10:36 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: I knew there was a reason for the warm weather here last Saturday. Things are hot in your corner.

I'm sorry guys, I cannot think. Gotta go.

To court, I go.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/20/03 08:33 PM
Hi All,

Petvet...

My prayers are with you!

Let us know how you are making out.

You know... it is getting a little warm around here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: stupid Re: Tough Love - 02/20/03 08:55 PM
i will not be reconciling EVER nor will i be a friend nor will i sleep with him secretly like he asked me. and YES IT IS LEGAL TO SUE A OW IN OHIO
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/20/03 11:16 PM
O.K.,

I must of missed something... could you be a little bit more specific.

Are you posting on the right thread? If so, would you care to enlighten us.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/21/03 12:51 AM
Wallace , I think that was posted on the wrong thread, I did a member search and saw a pattern...also appears the mods might be watching too. Notice how I haven't made any smarty comments about HEAT? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Petvet , let us know how it went! Remember, you are a great guy and we love you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/21/03 03:42 PM
Hi all,

Well it's Friday... and I might just make it through the day and the work week.

avondale...

I think you are correct... I think that last post was posted on the wrong thread... of course I've been wrong before. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm sure the Moderaters. have been viewing our thread. It does have a tendency to stand right out there... and it seems to be quite busy at any time of the day.

I'm sure Magnolia will inform us... if she thinks our thread is getting out of hand. If you see this Magnolia.. any input from you in that regards would be appreciated.

Did you decide to go ahead and file your taxes seperately avondale? That's next on my to do list.

Have you had any additional communication from your "H"?

Petvet...

How did yesterday go my friend?

I hope your doing well. Let us know how you are doing when you feel up to it.

I hope everybody has a great day and a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/22/03 06:41 AM
Hi Everyone -

I hope everyone is doing well. I've been pretty busy with my daughter's christening this Sunday. Should be an interesting day.

First of all I want to thank everyone for your support and incite - you've been extremely helpful in keeping me grounded in this mess.

Wallace - Hope you have a happy birthday tomorrow! Mine is Sunday. We Pieces are special people!

PetVet - hope everything went well in court!

Avondale - Any chocolate left???

As for me, I also went to see the priest. He was wonderful. He couldn't give me much incite into what was in my H head other than he is very confused - which is quite the understatement. But said that he wanted to meet with the both of us. He is performing the christening on Sunday. He said that after the christening he was going to pull us to the side and make an appointment.

Well, the weather has helped me keep some distance between us. He's been working day and night since the blizzard so I haven't had any contact all week. I don't call him and he has been too busy to call me so I have had a nice break.

Oh well, back to work. I am sure to have some stories on Monday. Never a dull moment when you get the families together <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Have a great weekend and any good vibes you could throw my way would be much appreciated!!!!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/22/03 11:51 AM
Hi all! I have been very exhausted since Wednesday night. I have not slept much. Last night, I crashed. I have cooled down some; now I can talk a little more.

In court, my kid's mother lied her butt off on the stand. Even after being presented with evidence to contradict her statements, she still said that she did not pursue anyone nor had a affair with anyone. She said that she tried very much to work out our marriage including going to counselingbut things did not work out. When I got on the stand, I told my side including how much I tried to work out the marriage, but that I could not take her back until she repented and apologize for her actions. Then her attorney asked me whether I had forgiven her. I said yes I had forgiven her to God but not her actions. Well apparently, I should not have said that because the judge rule on her behalf for re----- differences instead of my adultery. She also had the judge to put in the papers that she gave me custody of child because she worked at night. I was levied. The judge gave me primary custody of the child along with child support. Since I told him that I could not afford sell the house or get a refi for less than the rate I have now, he gave me two years to pay kid's mother her part of equity. Also, she has to pay half of our debt including what she owes me. After court was over, I asked my attorney why did not the judge do what he had done and she said that if I forgave kid's mother that the slate was wiped clean. For example, if some one was physically abused my their husband, and they let the husband back into the marriage later, they cannot claim abuse prior to letting that individual back into the house or marriage. I asked attorney why did she not stop me or stop the other attorney, she said it was too late. Well after prayers and some soul searching, I hand delivered a two page letter to my attorney, in it I said that I would not sign any divorce agreement unless my kid's mother pays me for tax liabilities by way of payroll deduct or cash or cashier's check. If she has the money fine, if not, well ... I will pay the tax liabilities(since I am paying them now anyway) in exchange for her admitting to adultery and removing the window dressing statement for public records of "I let husband have custody because I work at night". The previous statement means nothing because she cannot come after me to get custody unless she can prove I am a bad parent. I really would like the adultery plea because that would help me to get an annulment within a reasonable amount of time; otherwise, I may have to wait years to get it. I could not believe how kid's mother lied even in the face of the evidence. How was I supposed to know that by being honest that was against the law in my particular case.

Thanks all for your support.

Wallace: What are you doing now? Heat? I'm going to have to put a chain and muzzle on you.

Relady: Are you in real estate? If so, is appraised value more than sales value on a house?

Avondale: what are you up to?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/22/03 08:54 PM
Petvet
I'm sorry to hear things turned out the way they did. Almost 17 months since you first began the Tough Love thread, and now it may drag on even longer. We know you have done all any person could do. I had hoped that there will be a quicker closure for you. How difficult will it be to get the records changed to reflect adultery and custody issues? Did your lawyer give you any idea? It's a shame your lawyer didn't coach you some; but it's too late now. Your words will serve as a warning to those who go this road after you.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/22/03 10:47 PM
Hey All,

{{{{{Petvet}}}}}

Let me say that I am surprised by the outcome.

Usually, (CA) the judge will allow the custodial parent to remain in the home until the child reaches 18 and then the home is either refinanced or sold to give the spouse the equity. I'm not sure what State you live in. Be glad it's not CA, the house values have increased 100% in the last 3 years! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Like Avondale, I would think your attorney would have prepared you for the questions. Most lawyers know each other and have faced each other in the court room before. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Did you let her back into the house at some point hoping for recovery?

If your State is like most others, if in 2 years you are not in a position to refinance, you will have to sell your home in to pay her off, unless you can come to a separate agreement with her.(in writing) So maybe you want to settle that before you make the adultery charge stick. IMHO, maybe a tradeoff. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Appraised Value - is the value the appraiser puts on your home if there is no buyer involved. They have a tendency to appraise higher for refinance, etc. because you can only take 80-90% of the equity in your home to protect the lender's interest.

Selling Value - Is the value a buyer is willing to pay for your home in your current market area.

The selling value and the appraised value become the same when the lending institution appraises your home for a buyer getting a loan to purchase.

I hope that makes sense, if not let me know. Any Realtor in your Town can give you a Current Market Value on your home based on the homes that have sold in your area.

Wallace,

A funny thing happened to me yesterday and I thought of you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As I was driving along, a little light appeared on my dash, and would you believe it was the Brake Light letting me know my brakes were going bad! And, I thought, that's what Wallace needs, a brake light; because you can't tell when your brakes aren't working!! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You've been trying to put them on and you're not having any success!! So why don't you run down and have one installed and we won't have to worry about you!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

How are you and have you had a chance to get to that sight yet?

Hope everyone else is having a great and fun weekend.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/23/03 06:58 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I would have to agree with you that my attorney should have prep me about questions before court started. I don't know what's going to happen.

Relady: No, I never let her back into the residence. I wrote my attorney a letter and indicated to her that I was not happy with the outcome and expect things to be retified some how. Question: Let's say that there is $50,000
in equity, I have been told that expenses should be backed out of that plus you say that in order to protect lender that 80-90% of equity can be used. Is this true? Would selling cost apply to this situation?

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/24/03 06:07 AM
Hi All.........

Petvet - I'm sorry to see that outcome of the DV, I'm sure it somewhat feels like d-day again to some degree but at least its all coming to an end, one day it will all be over.......AS far being honest and saying you forgive her and they turned it on you, just remember you took and oath before God, that's who it mattered to, the Lord knows your heart and you were honest, on the flip side your exw took an oath and lied before man and God, yet she still has not repented, that's a sad place to be in life....Don't worry she didn't win, you'll find in time you're further ahead, it just hasn't hit home yet....

Me: Some friends of mine having been grueling me over exw's perjury issue, they say I should file for the fact that after I told OD what happened and now she is emancipated and that I'll always be there and told her what exw did and exw could be in trouble for it, OD asked exw about it and exw showed daughter a fake document that said things totally opposite than what I and the court has and OD blasted me said "How dare you bring some false accusation against my mother, mom is above that!! the document said, this and that and what age I am, so what's your problem Dad? So be a man stop bringing up lies and causing problems!". Well exw backed me in a corner and I emailed OD the true document and haven't heard anything since....

Well before I emailed OD true doc, exw emailed me, first time in months, she was hot, on top of that is from an email account I busted her in some of her affairs in early 2001 she told me she got rid of way back then, she must have reactivated it, I was surprized she must be in contact with old lovers, anyway she challenged me to take her to court over perjury said she did nothing wrong and then bragged how she got the child support amount and laughed like I was a soldier dragged through the streets of somalia by the hands of the enemy and said she would retaliate and take me to court for 'stating' she committed perjury and she was though if she was parading her victory over me with her foot on my neck.....

I can't believe exw showed OD a fake document or I guess I could believe it that's what perjury and lying is all about.

My friends concern is that exw is in no fear of trying something else later, they said If I don't stop her now and make her accountable I may suffer later.....Also there concern was the marriage public record issue, it makes me look real bad when I've done nothing, If I ever become a public figure and people went to my public records I would be a laughing stock of attention, I look like a infidel, a dead beat dad, a domestic abuser, abandon his kids, she slanders me with lies, etc when all this is based on her Affairs and Adultery...If I pursue the perjury issue then exw is exposed of her scheme , which sums it all up that she lied the whole time and it stops her from any future attacks....

Most people are seeig the effect all this is having on me and are convinced that exw is trying to reduce me to rubble and won't stop because she is in the hands of the devil...If filing will cause her to fall from her pride then that's what I must do....

For 2 1/2 years now I never fought back, no lawyer, forgave her, turned the other cheek, blasted by OM, let her steal from me hundreds of dollars, thrown in jail falsely because I prayed for her, etc...Now it's time to put a stop to her once and for all...The proof of perjury is so plain a 8 year could figure it out....

As much as I want her to stop and think she'll stop [me in denial], she won't and if I miss this opportunity when the ball is in my court even seeing she'll lie to my kids, I'll kick myself later, what example will they have of accountablilty to the law and to a spouse or person.

Take Care
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/24/03 12:46 AM
Hey All,

Petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's say that there is $50,000
in equity, I have been told that expenses should be backed out of that plus you say that in order to protect lender that 80-90% of equity can be used. Is this true? Would selling cost apply to this situation?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you're going to refinance and stay in the house, a lender will only give you 80-90% of the $50,000. If you sell it outright Whatever is left after expenses you would split down the middle.

And if you're only giving her $25,000 so you would be keeping 50% equity which would be fine. You just have to qualify for the additional money you're giving her. It will raise your payments.

Not so in refinancing, they don't usually consider costs even though it could cost as much as $5,000 to refinance which is factored into your current loan. It could vary depending on the State.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/24/03 05:52 AM
Hi all!

EC: I think you should go ahead and pursue the perjury issue against your exw. Enough is enough. Your exw has done enough damage to you. It is time for you to hold her accountable.

Relady: I am going to seek counsel on the equity issue. I have 24 mos. to give her the equity. Would you recommend doing it sooner or later?

Me: Speaking of public records, I think what my kid's mother is trying to do is dress up the
divorce settlement where it looks good in her
favor for the public record.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/25/03 06:27 AM
Hi All,

Hope everyone had a good weekend. Mine was good... but as ususal it was way too short.

ThePits.

A belated "Happy Birthday" to you. Hope you had a nice one. I had a very nice B-day... had friends and family over on Saturday night. We all went out for dinner and then came home and had cake and ice cream. It was very enjoyable.

Did you hear from your "H" on your B-day?

Sometimes no contact with your spouse can be a good thing... especially if you know in your heart that it is truly over. Everybody's situation is different however.

I know for me, it was better not having contact with my exW. It does have it's down sides though. I'm dealing with that now... CS, title transfers, children, etc..

My prayers are with you... as I know this must be a trying time for you.

Petvet...

I'm sorry to hear how your Court hearing went. I agree with everyone as well... your attorney should have prepped you for the hearing. I also agree with EC... you told the truth... and that's what really matters.

Out of curiosity... what did you list the house as being worth on your D papers... and what was the appraisal based on?

I'm not surprised that the Judge gave her half the equity in the house. I am surprised that he gave you two years to buy your exW out though... considering that you have primary custody of your son. It's a darn shame that they are in a sense rewarded with half of just about everything... especially when they cause the type of grief that they do.

I wish there were laws on the books where you could claim damages from them and have that deducted from their half.

I'm in the middle of refinancing my house. I waited for the dust to settle somewhat before I kicked in with all the unfinished business that I was left with.

I would look into refinancing while rates are down. "relady has given you some good info... if anyone knows about this... relady does.

It doesn't appear that your attorney did you any favors in the final Court hearing by the sounds of it.

Your probably going to be caught up in the muck like I am for awhile trying to sort it all out. IMHO, the Judicial System in this area... needs to be revamped and brought up to speed with the current times. They are so back logged with "D" cases... they just herd you in and herd you right back out to let you deal with the aftermath. It's a sad state of affairs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I'm sorry that it turned out the way that it did for you. It will get better for you as time passes. You will have your up and down days for awhile. Just know that it does get better.

EC...

In conjunction with the perjury case against your exW... are the Courts going to press charges? If not... it may be more headache than it's worth to pursue her on this.

I'm not an attorney... but I know that perjury cases are very tough cases to get a conviction on... especially if the Courts are not willing to pursue it.

I understand why you want to pursue this matter... just make sure that if you do... your not spinning your wheels and throwing away more than you could ever possibly get in return from it.

relady...

You and avondale always put a big smile on my face when I read some of your posts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think I do need new brakes... because the brakes I have don't seem to be working all that well. I'm somewhat at fault on this... I haven't been using the brake pedal all that much lately. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I might be buying a new car in the very near future. If I do (which I probably will), I'll make sure that the new car has good braking capabilities... I'm sure I'm going to need it.

avondale...

I didn't realize that this thread had been running this long until you mentioned it.

How are you making out with your tax situation?

How is everything else going for you?

Me...

Well... today would of marked 24 years of marriage for me had my exW acted somewhat normal.

I thought today may have been a depressing day for me... but in actuality... it has just turned into just another Monday... and for that I'm thankful.

Hope everyone has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/24/03 07:08 PM
Hi All,

Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend.

Petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have 24 mos. to give her the equity. Would you recommend doing it sooner or later?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First you need to find out how fast the homes in your area are increasing in value. In two years your equity could be increased or decreased. This year she may get $25,000, in two years $45,000 or $15,000. It's difficult to say.

And will your income increase to qualify for a higher loan amount? There are really to many variables missing to give you a solid answer.

Another solution is if she needs money now, you could convince her to take less and to give you a 'quitclaim deed' stating she has no further interest in the property. Your attorney should be able to assist you in that.

Hope that helps.

Wallace

Happy 'Belated' Birthday, I'm sure you had a wonderful day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I might be buying a new car in the very near future. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope your new ball and chain, errr, Did I type that out loud? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I mean 'car' has breaking capabilities as well. Would that be April 1st also? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thepits

Happy Belated Birthday to you also. Hope you had as much fun as our friend Wallace.

Avondale

How did your taxes work out? And how are you?

DavePr, RMA, EC, WGTT

Hope you're all well.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/24/03 08:37 PM
Hi Relady,

I don't want to pursue the perjury for any conviction or jailtime on her part, I see it more like the "Farmer who shoots his rifle in the air" to cause to bandits to run off the land and stop trying to steal his possessions. It's like she'll know I have a weapon [perjury issue] and I'll use it and then she'll leave me alone.

AT this point she feels more strengthen now and has less fear of the law and I'm sure she'll be doing something else illegally against me...She's like an animal from the wild that has lost it's fear of people [the law] and she will continue if I don't do something to make her accountable for her actions against me. Anyway I will be careful, at this point I don't feel its revenge but finally putting a stop to someone who's being a bully.

Also Relady what do you think about the Carlton Sheets course? I just ordered it and about to study it.

Take Care
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/25/03 05:07 AM
EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

I have spent hours and hours photocopying to get ready for my appointment with the attorney tomorrow morning !!!!!!!!!!! I just now realized the extent of the information that he is asking for. I'm not sure that I will have it all ready by tomorrow am!!!

Did anyone else feel overwelmed????? I was really sick this weekend and didn't do anything at all, could barely get up off the couch.

Today, I talked to a good friend of WH's who said that WH is living with the OW & WH told friend that there was no love, just the drugs. Friend also said that when WH was questioned why he just doesn't get a DV cuz he's living with someone else while M & WH's reply was "she won't do it because of her religious beliefs" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> EXCUSE ME, IT'S F'G OK TO LIVE WITH SOMEONE YOU ARE NOT MARRIED TO, DO ILLEGAL DRUGS, IGNORE YOUR FAMILY, SPEND MONEY ON CRAP, INCUR HUGE AMOUNTS OF DEBT !!!

I am glad that I talked to WH's friend today. A part of me was wanting to believe that WH was ready to give it all up, but that is not the case. WH is cocky and arrogant and not even close to a bottom.

ICor 5:11 came across my path recently. Very interesting Wallace may want to read that too. It shows the biblical stance behind plan B and also tough love.

I hope everyone has a good evening!

PS There are so many new names on this board recently - has anyone else noticed that too?

D.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/25/03 05:09 AM
PPS- WH turned 50 on Sunday
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/25/03 11:33 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: I'm glad everything is going well for you. I know it's hard making the adjustment from hell to calm.

WGTT: If I were you, I would think as little as possible about your WH. It burns up too much brain power.

Relady: Thanks for your advice.

EC: Why do you think that your W will continue to come after you?

Me: I am trying to cool out for now to sort
things out.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/25/03 01:09 PM
Hey Y'all,

Relady , all that info about buying out house equity confused me! LOL I thought it was just a matter of agreeing on an appraised value and then me buying him out of his share in order to keep the home.

Wallace, if you aren't careful you might need more than a brake light added to your car. You might need a whole overhaul! I was thinking....<gulp> maybe a wedding would be a great time for all of us to have a Tough Love reunion. So just let us know when the date is, OK? Now Relady I'm not abandoning the cause for Wallace to use common sense, but I wonder if we're fighting a losing battle. Maybe his onstar tracking device is working overtime?!?

WGTT , hope things go well at the lawyer's today. You're right, it was a good thing you ran into the friend, whose words were able to be confirmation for you.

EC - Petvet made a good point. You do seem kind of convinced that exw will come after you. Any clues as to why?

Petvet - What does your lady friend have to say about any of your situation? Anything?

ThePits - Hope you're doing well. Anything new?

DavePR, RMA, everyone else - I hope your week goes well!

I keep thinking that I'll hear from my CPA and will have something to report about my taxes, but nothing yet. I'm doing fine, just plodding along.
There DOES seem to be a lot of new names on the boards recently. But to be honest, I'm not paying a lot of attention to other threads - there seems to be a lot of bitterness and anger in many of them and I don't need to get involved in those attitudes. I'll just stick with y'all for the most part.
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/25/03 04:17 PM
Hi Everyone -

PetVet - sorry for the way things went in court, but like it was said, you told the truth. Something good has to come of that. It will eventually come to an end and your reward will be a drama free life for just you and your son. How has he been doing in school?

EC - sorry for all the drama you have been going through. You know, after all is said and done you might want to look into writing your memoirs. You have led a very interesting life!

WGTT - sorry for all you are going through lately. Anything new on the intervention? It doesn't even sound like he is happy at the OW house either. It really makes you think what they are doing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Avondale - I am with you on the other posts on the board. They are so filled with anger and revenge that it disturbing. Don't get me wrong, I am angry and frustrated in my situation also, but anger doesn't really get you anywhere.

Wallace - Glad you had a good birthday also.

I had to see my H on my birthday, we also christened our D on the same day. I was in a mellow mood, not expecting much. I just wanted to get through the day. He came home to get ready as his suit was home. He gave me a card from him and some flowers and a card from the kids. His card was pretty funny - he really tried hard to get one that was appropriate. It said "Happy Birthday From Far Away" and everything written inside was like he was living abroad. It made me laugh.

Overall, it was a pretty good day. The christening went well. The priest pulled us to the side and asked it we wanted to meet with him together. He was kinda taken by surprise and stammered a lot, but basically said yes. We didn't set a date/time yet though. I figured I would wait a few days then bring it up if he didn't.

The whole family went out for dinner afterwards and it was a pretty good day overall. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The sad thing was that my BIL (husband's brother) and his wife are seperated for 5 months, but he didn't want her to come down. No infidelity, but a lot of anger on his part. I can't figure them out, but when I see them I know what I don't want. Even if my H and I don't make it I don't want it to be ugly.

Hope everyone is doing well today and Hello to anyone I missed!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/26/03 06:10 AM
Hi All,

I hope you're having a wonderful day. It's raining here again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Who says it never rains in California?

EC,

I think The Carlton Sheets are good depending on where you are. It's a little more difficult than they lead people to believe. It takes a tremendous amount of work and discipline.

Avondale

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought it was just a matter of agreeing on an appraised value and then me buying him out of his share in order to keep the home.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's it in it's 'simplest' form. LOL Where does the money come from to buy him out? You either have the money under a mattress or you get it out of your property, which means qualifying for a loan.

You're right With Wallace we're fighting a loosing battle, we may as well buy a new dress for the wedding and forget it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Maybe his onstar tracking device is working overtime?!?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL, He's certainly not using the 'panic' portion of it.

Wallace

Just set the date and let us know? By the way, are you sharing these messages with your 'ladyfriend' ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

WGTT,

Your H just doesn't know he has hit bottom yet, he will eventually. God has a way of getting the attention of those we pray for.

Take care of yourself, work on your relationship with the Lord and He will take care of the rest.

The Pits

Glad you had a great day after all. The card and flowers were a nich gesture. At least he still has somewhat of a thought process. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That's more than we can say for a lot of WS's.

Petvet

No problem, it's what I do.

Hello Everyone Else,

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/26/03 06:21 AM
Hi All,

Well I made it past what use to be my wedding anniversary yesterday. Not as bad as I thought it was going to be.

relady...

ROFL... you had me going with your last post there.

Ball and chain? LOL

After much thought... April 1st... does have a nice ring to it... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I'm keeping my options open. I'm not sure if April 1st will be the day... but you never know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

TY... for the "Happy Birthday". I decided to start counting my birthdays backwards as of this past Saturday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC...

Your exW and mine sound very much the same as far as their mindset is concerned. My exW has completely ignored all of the Court orders that were stipulated in the final "D" decree.

You reach a point where you have to make a decision... let them continue with their antics... or make a move to the Courts to put a stop to it.

I'm like you... will it gain me anything? It's hard to say... but if you don't at least try to put a stop to it... it will just continue on, and on, and on.

So I understand why you are taking the stance that you are.

Petvet...

I'm trying to take it slow and easy... and if you feel anything like I did after it was all said and done with... then you will probably just want to gather yourself back up, and begin getting your bearings straight.

It will take a little time... but just concentrate on healing yourself and looking after your son. You have been through a war... and you have taken some hits. Now it's time to nurse yourself back to health.

WGTT...

Gathering all the information for your attorney is overwhelming. It took me almost 2 months to put it all together. I have files that are almost a foot thick. It can and does work you. Keep at it... you will get through it... just take it one step at a time. You won't feel so overwhelmed that way.

Sorry to hear that your "H" is still out of it. I was skeptical all along based on what I was hearing. You will know when they want to change their ways. It won't be until he hits bottom unfortunately, and he will hit bottom... you can take that one to the bank. Then you will have to make a decision at that point as to what "YOU" want to do.

avondale...

If I do decide to have that special date (and I'm not saying that I am... LOL) You will all be invited. A "Tough Love" get together... with a "Tough Love" wedding... LOL... that would be a first I believe.

How does "April Fools Day" sound to everyone? Can we all make plans that early? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I don't know... I'm getting ready to buy a new car. Lets see... ummm... brakes, OnStar, gotta be able to keep track of where I am going and where I've been. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Can you think of any options that I need to include in my new car purchase... besides a good a/c unit to cool things down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

ps. relady...

I'm not really sharing all of the info on here with my "lady friend"... LOL. She knows about "MB", and she sometimes visits the sight... and she knows about this thread. Who knows she may pop in here one of these days... maybe as Mrs. Wallace... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ February 26, 2003, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/25/03 07:40 PM
Hi everyone, checking in here helps me keep my sanity. I had a BIZARE night! It started when I was exausted and had trouble getting to sleep. When I finally did, I awoke with a horrible coulgh that wouldn't quit - it was breath taking, so much that I ended up getting sick. After finally getting back to sleep, D comes in Mom, there is water pouring down from the kitchen ceiling!!!! (It's raining inside!!!) Sure enough, water is pouring out from the ceiling fan in the kitchen. As it looks like it might be slowing down, another spot starts. I am dumbfounded. D asks whats making it do that ??? No idea. And no H to take care of it. I said "Lord, I can't take any more"

This morning I woke tired and went to the attorney appointment. After we went thru everything (He was very good) we both agreed that financially I was better off NOT to file right now, and to continue doing what I have been doing and gave me a few more steps to take. This is not too hard to do as long as WH is not here.

After the attorney had figured some scenarios he said what do you think? I said it sucks that WH can act the way he has, done the damage he has and that the courts want to EQUALIZE what we each get. I don't see the equality. All in all, I wouldn't want this attorney on the opposite side.

Wallace Thanks, I didn't think he had hit a bottom at all, but my mind can play tricks on me. The call from WH's friend was a big reminder.

relady It is amazing what God can do. Enen though things are very trying, He has put people into my life at just the right time. Yesterday, I ran into a friend and prayer warrior that I hadn't seen in a while. She invited me to her house & we talked about what was going on. She suggested that I see the attorney but not do anything yet. That is exactly what has happened.

Step by step I will rebuild a new life. I know I will get thru the pain, that I will grow (and have grown) and already in so many ways the Lord has used me to help others.

I hope all are doing well

D.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/25/03 07:50 PM
petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WGTT: If I were you, I would think as little as possible about your WH. It burns up too much brain power.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are so right.

My main focus right now is to increase my income so I can support me and the kids no matter what happens.

The pits I will end up doing an intervention on the phone, which I have no problem doing. WH has been cunning but I have heard his story a hundred times in AA and alanon.

I have only briefly scanned this thread lately as so much is going on so in time I'll catch up!

avondale Be thankful that things are going fairly smooth. I hate chaos and cant' wait to get back to a smooth routine.

What is with the weird posts on this board? Not his thread, but the alien stuff?

D.
Posted By: FeelingAllAlone Re: Tough Love - 02/25/03 09:56 PM
Hi everyone, I need to get back to these posts... sorry I was away for so long. I have been selling my house and looking for a place to rent. House is now sold and I found a place. It's not much but I can at least get back on my feet.

I do have a question for all of you. My stbx still wants to remain friends and so does her bf. I just dont get it. She says she wants us to focus on our children and do whats best but yet she can commit the adultary and live with another man while not married... some example. I dont want to come on down on living together before marriage but when young children are involved and the divorce isn't even final yet, I question her motives.

Any way back to my point. I have to see her at least twice a week when I'm picking up the kids or taking them back. She will also call me at least once a week and e-mail me also. Everthing is related to our children, but it's funny that she says to "take care" and "I will talk to you later".

I just dont get it. She wants this new romantic life with OM and yet wants to talk to me about our children as parents weekly. I have realized that she has had a lot of admiration for OM for a long time even before I found out about it and he is not dissapointing her decision by leaving me. He is making everything so romantic and rosy for her that she could never think about what she has done and would never consider coming back and reconciling.

Do you think I'm banging my head against the wallfor too long by praying to God to bring us together. I dont want to give up on us but I get so fustrated when I have to see those two together just flaunting and being happy together. It makes me sick and I know that they do it in front of our kids so that they are confused also.

I just needed to vent out. I need to stay more incontact with you all. You all have had so many obsticals that you have overcome and I can sure use some good advice. I thank you all and pray that all are doing extremely well.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 02/25/03 11:55 PM
Here's a tidbit from the attorney today that everyone may want to consider if you havn't already ................

Close ALL the old JOINT credit accounts that show up on your credit report. An X can reactivate the accounts, run up debt and you are liable if they don't pay !!!!!

There's also another angle to consider .......... your credit rating goes down when there are too many open credit accounts. I found this out recently when applying for D's car.

BTW, she got a Honda Civic (used) and it and me qualified for the 4.9% interest rate. We had applied at another car place & their rate was 18% !!! Go figure and then go shop around!

D,
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 02/26/03 03:06 PM
Hi everyone, just a quick check in.. sounds like most everyone is doing well and moving forward. Petvet, I am very sorry to hear that things did not go as well as they should have in court but I know that you are a much stonger person now and will quickly bounce back from this. You know in your heart that you did all you could to save the marriage and you were honest throughout the process, sometimes life is just not fair, but you did your best and that is what really matters in the end.

Things are still going well with us, still trying to sell the house, still in MC, still trying to put the past in the past. It is has proven to be much more difficult that I could ever of imagined. I have heard that it takes atleast 2-3 years to recover, I think that is a conserative estimate as we are now coming up on 1 year in recovery but you stick with and it does get easier. Sorry I have not had much time to spend on these boards lately, work as been busy and I have been trying to spend more time with the family.
God bless everyone
Take care,
Dave
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/26/03 04:37 PM
Hi All,

ThePits...

I am pleased to hear that your "H" was cordial to you... bought you a card and flowers. that's better than most "WSs".

Glad that your B-day turned out well. Did all of you go out to eat dinner together? if so... I'm impressed that you and he are getting along so well under the circunstances.

Keep up the good work.

WGTT...

Pardon the pun... "but when it rains it pours". Where was all the water coming from?

It sounds like your attorney gave you some good advice. I would be careful of one thing though. If you are not legally seperated from your "H", you could be liable for any debt load that he may incurr by not filing for "D" or a legal seperation. You sighted the case as far as credit card debt. IMHO, I think that once you are "D", they would have a hard time making you legally responsible for any actions that your X incurred concerning future credit card debt. I ran into that... and it was put to rest immediately. They are going after my exW for it now, as we threatened to sue the issuing Bank if they did not remove my name from the obligation... which they did. But you are correct... you need to close all joint accounts.

FAA...

I have a suggestion... if your legally seperated from your wife at this moment... you could request to the Courts that you would like it stipulated that there will be no OM in the presence of your children while she has visitation and site the reasons why. I'm not saying that the Courts will grant this... but it has been known to happen in the best interest of the children.

Are you and your children seeing an IC? If not, I would highly recommend that you do. I would also seek out the support of your Church, if you attend one. You need to distance you and your children from that type of behavior that your W is exhibiting.

Dave...

It's good to hear from you and I'm glad that your making progress in your recovery. I agree with you that a full recovery could take up to 2 to 3 yrs.and that is a conservative estimate.

Keep up the good work and keep us updated when you get a chance.

Hope everyone has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 26, 2003, 11:30 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: FeelingAllAlone Re: Tough Love - 02/26/03 05:52 PM
Wallace

I have brought this up to my attorney about having OM restricted from being around my children, the problem my attorney said is that he has been a friend of the family(somefriend) for so long that the children would not be too upset by this. I thought that this was a lame excuse but he did tell me that if we went to court on this that we would most likely lose and that this could cause bigger problems during the divorce settlement.

I have myself and kids in IC and also GC so I can only do so much. My W says that counseling for the kids is good its just that when I cant take them do to my work schedule and ask her to take them, she says that " that's something for you and the kids" What a load of crap. She doesn't want to be embarrassed by being at any counseling that deals with divorce even if the counseling is for the kids.

I will continue to focus on myself and my kids and let her live in her own fantasy world of how life is supposed to be. One day she will come to reality but I cant say that I will be there for her.

I hope all is well with you and everyone else.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/26/03 09:57 PM
Hi Gang!

Hope everyone is doing ok!! Lots of action going here......

To answer the question, what else will exw do to me?? I don't know, each time it's been a surprize, she just knows she could get away with it, she premeditates her plans based on how the last one went...if you're a success why stop...however she may be careful now that she knows I'll let OD know about her dirty work....I'll see how things play out in the next few days........

YD called me yesterday, I wasn't home, she said she really wanted to talk to me....That's a big change...YD could be having trouble, exw found out YD broke the code of silence and told me YD lies and don't believe her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ..Did she lies?/ or did I hear something. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/27/03 07:50 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone is having a good day.

FAA...

Glad to hear that you and your children are seeing a counselor. It helps... so does getting together with other support groups. It works wonders... for both you and your children.

It's unfortunate that your "W" feels that the burden of having your children see a counselor should be your sole responsiblity... but it doesn't surprise me. They create the problem... and then I guess you can deal with it... go figure. But it is all sooooo typical.

I'm not surprised that your attorney decided not to pursue the OM restriction... considering he was a friend and all. It's that old saying, "With friends like that... who needs enemies". What did your IC say about all this?

I would still make a real effort to try to distance yourself and your children as much as possible... as best you can from your wife's antics. IMHO, it's not good for you... and it's not good for your children.

EC...

It's good to hear that your YD is opening up to you. keep up those lines of communication with her... it will do nothing but solidify your relationship with her for the long term.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 27, 2003, 01:54 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/27/03 07:58 PM
Hi All -

Hope everyone is doing well. I have had an interesting couple of days and needed to run it by someone objective....

Yesterday I asked my H to pick up our son at school as I was really tired and had a headache (which I really did). He said sure and also said that since I wasn't feeling well he would pick up a pizza so that I didn't have to worry about dinner. He didn't stay over long, but it was a really nice time. He talked a lot, but not about relationship. Since the christening this past weekend it's been more plesant between us. We had a really good time on Sunday also. When we were eating dinner he mentioned that he wasn't eating much unless he passed by his Mom's house to see the kids (she lives in the same town he works and my MIL watches the kids while I work).

Well, this morning I was up pretty early and decided to make him lunch (something I used to do every morning when he was home and I miss doing it). I wasn't sure how it was going to be taken by him, he gets a little uncomfortable when I do things for him - it's a guilt thing. I packed up a lunch and dropped it off with the girls at my MIL and called him to let him know it was there. Just as I thought he was a little taken by it, but said thanks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Well, I just got a voice mail at work saying thanks for the lunch and that he appreciated it. He was pretty upbeat this time. It was a good feeling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

What do you think? Am I reading too much into this? Aughhh, I don't want to go back on the rollercoaster again!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/28/03 11:59 AM
Hi Y'all...I haven't posted cuz I haven't had a lot to say recently. But I've been reading every day and keeping up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ThePits
I think it is great that you and your husband are getting along. Sometimes family events (like Christenings) give them cause for thought. But they also can give the betrayed spouse a sense of false hope. It was a VERY nice gesture that you did, making his lunch and sending it. VERY THOUGHTFUL. But to be honest, I wouldn't read too much into his reaction. It's better to guard your heart at this point in time. I remember being in your place (somewhat) and the let down from thinking "maybe he's changing" can be overwhelming. One gauge I used was "is this action something I would do for a good friend who stopped by?" Such as, would I offer them dinner (yes, I would) or would I type a letter for them (yes), would I offer to help them move (no), etc... So if offering a meal is something you would do as a natural act on your part, then don't feel bad about doing it. But just don't get your hopes up from his response. Only time (and continued similar responses from him) will really let you know.

Me: I got my taxes back from CPA. It is MUCH better than I thought it would be. I owe ~$1000 to Feds but am getting back ~$900 from State, so it's almost a wash! Now I just need to find out if there are withholding adjustments to make for this year. Anyway, I'm very thankful that the numbers are as low as they are!
Also, today my daughter is having lunch with her dad. She's a little apprehensive but they haven't spoken since Christmas and when he invited her, she felt she should. I know it's a good thing for them to have a relationship. I have said here before that she is very mature and sees his actions for what they are, but still I admit a little piece of me hurt when she told me they were getting together. I guess it's because I know he'll use the fact she's seeing him as a reason to think "it's all OK, she accepts my actions, etc.." even though she doesn't - and may tell him that if she's feeling bold enough.

WGTT - please tell me how to make the hearts
Catch y'all later...and if not, have a great weekend!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: ThePits Re: Tough Love - 02/28/03 04:31 PM
Thanks Avondale, you put me right back into perspective and I needed that. I know it's WAY too soon to think anything of what is going on. But you are right, if I feel ok with doing things for him then I should. I have been holding back lately, a lot. He is noticing also. Even last night when he called to talk to the kids he took a moment to ask me how I was doing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I was taken back, I was like someone actually cares how the MOM is doing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I was good, didn't make much of it, just said I am doing fine and all is ok. It was short and sweet but he hasn't asked me how I was doing in over a month!

But I have been doing well and I believe that it is because I am being guarded with my feelings. I will continue to do so. And if I feel like doing something nice for H, then I will do so. It will be my choice.

Glad to hear about your taxes, this is such a stressful time trying to figure out the best plan of action.

Hope all goes well with your daugther and lunch. It's good that she is meeting him, but it is incredibly strong of her to let him know her true feelings. Hopefully he will respect her feelings. It sounds like you raised her well!!!

Hope eveyone is doing well & have a good weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 03/01/03 06:05 AM
Hi All,

It's Friday again. I hope everyone has a great weekend.

I'm off to a convention in Las Vegas, returning on Wednesday. There's got to be someplace I can wear my sunglasses! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Avondale

Glad to see your taxes worked out OK. I still haven't gathered my information. I owe every year so I'm not in a hurry.

Thepits

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's better to guard your heart at this point in time </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Avondale gave you good advice there. Sometimes when we want things so badly, we have a tendency to let our emotions play tricks on us, and we see things that aren't really there.

There is no greater hurt than that imposed on us by our out of control emotions.

God Bless
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/28/03 07:58 PM
Hi All,

It looks like we might just make it through another week. I'm on the countdown. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ThePits.

avondale gave some excellent advice... I would guard your feelings as best you can. I would concentrate on what you want out of life at this point in time. Take this time to begin your healing... be it with or without your "H" in the picture.

I would not live my day based on the actions or lack of action taken by your "H"... it's too draining.

[B]avondale...


Got your taxes done? Glad to hear that everything is pretty much coming out as a wash. I'm still holding back on doing mine.. I've got plenty going on as it is. I'll wait till the last moment to get them done... like I usually do.

What prompted the dinner with your daughter and your "H"? I understand how you might feel... even though I have yet to experience that type of situation yet... I'm sure in time I will though, it's just a matter of time.

relady...

Going to Sin City, hey! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Here... this guy has your glasses... don't forget to take them with you on your trip... you will probably need them. LOL

Have fun while your there. Are you ready for this?

Don't do anything I would'nt do!

LOL... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet...

How are you making out? I'm getting a little nervous... let us know when you get a chance.

EC, WGTT, Dave, RMA, and FAA...

I hope all is well and I hope that I didn't forget anyone.

Have a good weekend, and see you next month... can you believe this month is pretty well over.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/01/03 12:16 PM
Hi all! Sorry, I have not been around lately. I have been busy doing taxes and some other things including making sure kid stays on track.

Avondale: I'm glad your tax situation looks pretty good. Me, a LADY FRIEND (Smiling)?

The Pits: Yes, I think all of us want a drama-stress free life; however, as long as we have to deal with WS, your life will be much drama and stress.

Other Posts: I would recommend that people stay away from posts and groups that exhibit a lot of anger because they can make one depress. Heck, life is already tough enough.

WGTT: Equalization? The courts don't really give a damn about what the other person has done. The only difference is the CS and alimony issues. Outside of that, everything is equalize. Is it fair, no, but that's what society and the law allows.

Feeling Alone: If I were you, I would go for the order anyway to keep kids from around the OM. What do you have to lose? Why would you want to be kuddly, best friends, happy go lucky with a pair of barracudas? I'm telling you guy that you are being set up for the kill. Be careful!

Dave: It was nice to hear from you again. I wish you well.

Wallace: Alright, alright, alright! Have I missed something? Marriage? O' Boy! I feel the heatwave returning.

Relady: Sweet lady, thanks for the real estate advice. Carlton Sheets? Is he not a scam artist?

EC: Have you seen any great change in your D's attitude towards you since your court date?

Me: As I said before, I have been really busy. Yes, I am still smarting from my experience in court but I am quickly getting over it. My goal is to be the best person and father I can be. I am trying to hit on all cylinders now. There's no stopping me now. Kid's mom is in for a rude awakening as far as I am concern. She will be having a number of surprises from me in the future. I am plowing ahead full force. My attorney sent me a letter saying that she felt that I was still in love with my kid's mom, well, I will be meeting with attorney real soon to set the record straight on a number of issues including what occurred in the courtroom.

And I'm gone.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 03/01/03 10:56 PM
Avondale

You make the hearts by typing in
& hearts ;
without the spaces

♥ ♥ ♥

D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/03/03 08:15 PM
Hi All,

Petvet...

Glad to hear from you my friend. If your anything like I was... it will take some time to heal from your experience.

I don't understand what your IC is shooting for. If your still in love with your exW... I see nothing wrong with that.

You can't kill love for anyone that you have made a life time commitment with over night... it just does not happen that fast. Personally I wish we could have... it would make life a whole lot simpler... but it does not appear to work that way.

Take care of yourself and your son... like you have been doing... you will be O.K..

I noticed that smiley face after your statement about a possible new woman... what's up with that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

There has been some rumblings going on in my end of the camp about something called "marriage". But that's all it is... rumblings... nothing serious yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Hope everyone is having a good day, and a good week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/04/03 02:22 AM
Petvet,

My apologies for not getting to this post earlier. I have had alot going on. My Dad died a week ago and I have been out of state for the funeral. Also, I got married this past Fri. We decided on Valentine's Day and were to get married past Tues, but my Dad's funeral was on Tuesday, so we did it this past Fri. It has been hectic around here, to say the least. And I won't mention thast stack of income tax returns I have yet to get to!

Anyway, I wanted to take a moment to say, I am sorry you were disappointed in court. I know you wanted the record straight and to truly reflect what happened. But, even though she never admitted the truth - you know it. My advice is not to throw more good water after bad. Let it go, Petvet. Don't make a crusade out of the rest of your life to try to get things even or corrected. Your exW will have to go and and may even repeat many of the same mistakes. She may never ever admit the truth to you or your son, and maybe not even to herself! Yet, I want you to spend your time and efforts and energies on constructive things that will bring positive people and positive happenings into the life of Petvet and your son.

It is hard to leave this chapter of your life, because it isn't written at all like you thought it should be. It seems the WS gets off scot-free and doesn't have to "pay" for all the havoc they have wrecked. Yet, what seems isn't always so. I am more than willing to place a bet that your exW isn't really happy. if she is - more power to her ability to move on so quickly. However, I have a strong hunch she just isn't a bundle of bliss right now.

God bless you and your good heart. May God give you the strength yo need to forge forward and build a new and happy life for both you and your son!

Love to you, friend! RMA

(PS. Wallace, don't even think about it!!!! It is WAAAAYYYYY too soon!!)
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/04/03 03:49 AM
RMA
You're about as bad as Wallace with these bombshells! I'm sorry to hear about your dad; I hope it wasn't totally unexpected and that you were able to take care of any "personal" things that may have existed between you (if there was any). And to happen the same week you were planning on getting married! Your post sounded like you were able to take everything in stride... but you didn't tell us you were THAT serious with your "man friend" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Remind Wallace and Petvet how long you waited after you were divorced! We may need you to keep Wallace, especially, in line. He seems to have forgotten where his brake pedals are and his GPS hormones, er...tracking devices are working overtime, LOL.

Anyway, it was great to hear from you!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/04/03 07:09 PM
Hi All,

RMA...

You do have quite a bit going on... don't you?

I'm sorry to hear of your fathers passing... was it a situation that you were preparing yourself for, or did this just happen all of a sudden. By the sounds of it... it came unexpected.

I thought I dropped some bombshells, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> you getting married came out of left field... LOL.

Congrats... I'm sure you didn't rush into anything like someone I know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Your right about my circumstance... it's way too soon.

avondale...

Your right... I have forgot where my brake pedal is... and my GPS is not working either.

I feel like I'm in a "Catch-22". This situation is getting way out of control. I do have very strong feelings for my "lady friend"... and I believe that I am in love with her. I find myself at times wanting to settle down with her... and then on the other hand... I find myself not wanting the commitment... at least not right now.

I know this is not fair to her... as I have been kinda going along with most things that she talks to me about. Then I turn around and find myself trying to back pedal and hit the brakes... and she gets disappointed.

In other words... I'm not living up to what she would like to see the final outcome be... and that is marriage.

I want to continue our relationship... but I know I'm not ready for marriage yet. I don't want to lose her... because in my eyes... she is a keeper. But I'm not ready to remarry at this point in time. So now what do I do? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Did you like how I layed that all out for you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm open for some suggestions... and I'm bracing myself for this one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/04/03 09:06 PM
Hey Wallace
Don't brace yourself YET <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I read your post but want to consider and think about it a while before posting. I wanted to let you know I read it and you DID lay it all out very well (better than you did before, LOL). Catch-22s are not something to do quick responses to; I will respond later!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/04/03 10:05 PM
TY avondale,

I all of a sudden found myself in a situation that I am going to need some good advice on... this is a real sticky situation that I'm finding myself in.

I hope I don't blow it... before it's all said and done with.

I'll be waiting to hear what you have to say.

I'm open for all suggestions.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 03/05/03 12:04 AM
Wallace

Hopefully I can put into words what is in my heart to say. If it were me, I would want total honesty. To say something to the effect that you have written above,

That's she's a keeper, and that you believe that at some point in the future that you feel you want to marry her

In order to have the best possible relationship over the long haul, that you need to come into the relationship fully ready to commit mind, body and soul.

That it is you that has more healing to do, that it has to do with the past, that it may take some time. Not something wrong with her.

I suggest the book "Mars and Venus on a date"
Even if your not much of a reader, I feel this one is valuable. It's not long and easy to read. What I think is valuable in that it talks about the different stages of dating as well as the defferneces between male and females in each stage. It quantifies feelings, reactions and the process itself so that you can say "hey I did this or I didn't do that, or maybe we could approach it this way ..... inother words, it may be something that you two could share and talk about your feelings about what is written.

If you think that she may move on because you are not ready to commit right now (which seems wise) ask her what would you need to do to show her that you truly cared about her while working through your own healing.

Speaking of healing, it is something that we have to do it ourselves but no one can do it for us. She may be thinking that she can help you through what ever it is that you need to go through, when in fact, you are the only one who can do it.

This step has to be right for both of you, not just one or resentment or some other negative emotion will creep in your relationship.

God Bless,

D.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 03/05/03 12:07 AM
Wallace -

OOPS, I almost forgot the most important thing ...

Prayer

D.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/05/03 03:27 AM
Wallace ,
It seems like your relationship is not on equal footing in certain areas. (I think you already know that, as Relady, RMA and I have told you before, but your own words spelled it out again here.)

Sooo....you've said you think she MAY be "the one" yet the timing is too soon. Agreed? (That's what WE all agreed, whether you do or not, LOL.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and then on the other hand... I find myself not wanting the commitment... at least not right now.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> OK BRACE YOURSELF ! ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Have you been honest with her and said that? What's the worse that could happen - you won't be "dating" her anymore? If she reacts by disassociating herself in that manner, then to be honest, you're better off without her. In earlier posts you indicated you've told her you're NOT ready, etc... for permanent commitment. Why do you continue to feel pressured?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been kinda going along with most things that she talks to me about. Then I turn around and find myself trying to back pedal and hit the brakes... and she gets disappointed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By "going along" you're not being honest either. And it is giving her expectations of things that you have said you're not ready for at this time

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In other words... I'm not living up to what she would like to see the final outcome be... and that is marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree. You NEVER said you don't want marriage with her, in fact, you've said that you do! I'm not sure where you get the "I'm not living up to..." thought. I hope it didn't come from her! Unless she's pressuring you to get married tomorrow (which could be possible)... Again, it's a timing difference and not necessarily a philosophical difference

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want to continue our relationship... but I know I'm not ready for marriage yet. I don't want to lose her... because in my eyes... she is a keeper. But I'm not ready to remarry at this point in time. So now what do I do?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If this was one of your kids asking that, what would you say? You'd probably say " she'll wait until you're ready, don't rush into anything, maybe take a break and re-assess"...All things that have been suggested to you. Wallace, if she really wants what's best for you, she will be available when you are ready. And if she's not, then it's just not meant to be. Do you have enough faith to handle that? Have you prayed about it by yourself? What do you feel God is saying to you? Have you prayed about it with her? What does SHE feel God is saying? Hopefully He's saying the same thing to both of you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WGTT said something very true:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Speaking of healing, it is something that we have to do it ourselves but no one can do it for us. She may be thinking that she can help you through what ever it is that you need to go through, when in fact, you are the only one who can do it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This very concern was voiced by someone in about the first or second post after you mentioned your "lady friend". It's not uncommon.

So Wallace my big bro, I think it's not just the brakes, not just the GPS, I think the timing belt needs adjusting too. I hear they can be tricky until everything is working in sync, which I know will happen for you IN THE FUTURE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/05/03 11:56 AM
Hi all!

RMA: First of all, thanks for the kind advice. I sure can use it. I am sorry to hear about your father. As Avondale said, I hope it was not sudden and you had time to spend with him. I will pray for his soul. NOW! Sneaky Sneaky Sneaky! You got married under out radar screen. Congratulation! I'm not surprise though because I saw this coming because I kept saying to myself, "she is going to probably marry this guy". I know how you feel about the tax returns because I am covered up myself. As far as my marriage is concern, I have moved on especially after this past weekend. Last weekend, kid's mom was over moving out her stuff. To make a long story short, I caught her telling my son negative things about me even telling him about the evidence that was used against her during the court hearing. She told him that his father will take things and used against him. After she lefted, son came to me and asked me whether I was going to hurt him. I called her that afternoon and told her that I did not appreciate her telling our son negative things about me and putting him in the middle of this stuff; well, she exploded and told me that she I could not tell her what to do anymore (like I ever could) and she could say and do anything she wanted. She said that I did not get what I wanted as far as proving adultery because the judge did not go along with it. I told her that she was responsible for what has happened to her. She was screaming at me to the point that I had to get off the phone. A couple of hours later she left a message saying that she apologize for screaming at me and that we need to be civil to eachother for our son's sake. After that exchange, I started counting my blessings that I was not invlove with her anymore. Other than the adultery thing, I pretty much got what I wanted. As you said, I know the truth. I am just going to try to stay away from her as much as possible. I am headed in the right direction. I am spending my time on constructive things that will bring positive things and happenings in my life as well as my son's. After last Saturday, I am breathing a sigh of relief. Once again, thanks for being there for me from the beginning.

Wallace: It seems to me that you need to level with your lady friend. You know as well as we do that it is too soon for you to get htch again. You have to be honest. She cannot make you marry her, so you get married when you are ready, if she is not please with what is going on, she will probably move on. Granted, things may be going well now, but we need to give it some time of at least a year or two bare minimum. Anybody can be on their best behavior for a year when the love bug has hit. Having a honest relationship is the only way to go.

Avondale: How are things with you?

WGTT: What is the status of your situation?

Me: I am doing much better. I have moved on and have been making positive moves. I do have a friend who is very positive for me. I will fill you guys in on "the friend" at a later date(have I said that before?).

And I'm gone.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 03/05/03 02:38 PM
Hello Gang!

Wallace - I agree with WGTT, Avondale and Petvet in that they have said. I think the book will help you a lot "Mars and Venus on a Date", It's good and I think you'll see where you went wrong. It's not that she's the wrong person but you're trying to do something serious in the wrong season. You have 4 seasons, spring, summer, fall and winter, somewhere you skipped a season and you're trying to produce completed fruit in the wrong season and you're having conflicting feelings.

I feel what has happened more than anything is that in learning from your previous marriage mistakes and working on you, you learned how to make your marriage work better material and you perfected it, problem is you took those principles and applied it to your current relationship which produced what? Excelerated Marriage possibilites....

What you've learned from MB is good but somethings are to be shared for later in a relationship and not at the beginning otherwise you'll blow there minds....sharing some of these principles are for when you decided to be seclusive and focused on one person, but if you are dating someone you are just becoming friends therefore you don't get intimate right off or apply marriage principles but dating principles...

I think us guys jump very soon at the first female head over heels that come in our lives because in our prior marriage the betrayal made us felt rejected and worthless, then someone comes alongs and accepts us and we not knowing the betrayal had little to do with us, then we find ourselves healing in time with the new person and realize, hey if one lady was attracted to me when I felt I was nothing, I feel real good now, I wonder if I committed to soon and now I realize I went from married to married rather than, married to living the single life, dating and trying to heal...

I think if you get the book it will help you to understand a little better what stages you jummped, you never allowed yourself to have a female friend and kinda let it become a guy thing sorta where there's no romance but just friends, every female that comes along don't mean fall in love.....

I need to read the book again myself, but once you read it you'll know exactly what's happening and you'll know when to back up or move left or right....

She may be the one but you don't have to rush it either, it's your healing season....

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/05/03 05:30 PM
Hi All,

Thank you all for the very sound advice that you have given me. It is very much appreciated and it puts things more into focus for me.

I'm not really familiar with the "Venus/Mars books... but I'm going to go ahead and purchase the dating one... it sounds like it is something I can use to help better understand this situation.

I have been praying about this whole situation... and the Lord has put it into my heart that she is the "one". The Lord has also put it into my heart, to work through my healing process and come closer to him as well... which I'm working on as we speak.

In regards to being honest with her about all of this. I have in fact been honest with her. I have told her on numerous occasions that I wanted to take things very slow... and see how it all worked out. When we first started dating,(after being just good friends for approximately 6 months) I told her that I was not ready for anything serious... and she was in full agreement. Then... as time went on, she blurped out to me while we were having dinner... that she felt she was falling in love with me. I about fell over in my chair when I heard this... I didn't know how to respond... I was lost for any kind of words whatsoever... I didn't know what to say. I must of looked like something from another Planet... I just looked at her and said "you do"?

Then I said, "well I think I have strong feelings for you as well". Since then, and ever since I uttered those words... the ball has been rolling. Times and dates have gone from a 5 year wait and see period... to the point that she would probably marry me tomorrow if I asked her to.

I made a huge mistake during X-mas. I didn't realize how big of a mistake it was, and I have no idea what possessed me to do this. We were having dinner at a X-mas party, and while at dinner I said. "if I asked you to marry me... what do you think your answer would be"? She looked at me in amazement and said, "I would say, yes". It was at this point that I realized what a can of worms I just opened. She was waiting for me to ask her to marry me... and guess what... I didn't. I just quickly changed the subject to something else... which she was not very happy about. I don't blame her, I would of been upset as well had that happened to me. I was very wrong for what I did... and I apologized to her for it.

Since that point... the 5 year wait and see period has gone from that... to lets have a summer wedding this year. At that point I said, "Well, let's take a look at it, and see what happens". This happened this past weekend.

So this is why I am in the state of affairs (and I hate using that word) I am in.

Yes I know what you are all thinking... that I lead her on, and unknowingly I did... your right... I'm guilty. I didn't realize it at the time and it wasn't done intentionally.

I do want to eventually marry her... but I need to have more time to heal, become closer to God, etc..

I think you have all given me some very sound advice... and I am just going to be honest with her, and tell her that I do love her, and eventually will want to commit to marriage but it's just going to take some time... and let the chips fall where they may.

Hope everyone has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 03/05/03 08:15 PM
Hey Mr.Wallace Loverboy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

To tell her you want to wait and slow things down a little is not a bad thing, I just had a friend of mine tell me this past weekend that he wished he would have waited before getting married, he said it was only 9 months before he and his current wife got married and said he wrestled with so much of his own baggage from his previous M, so he tells everyone to wait at least 2+ years or more of being single and until you heal...If she loves you she'll understand and wait....

I wouldn't feel guilty, you didn't try to do this and you didn't do it alone, it took (2). Next time all of us here will gather some money and send you a can of spray called ((Down Boy))) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Take Care
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 03/05/03 09:19 PM
EC says:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Next time all of us here will gather some money and send you a can of spray called ((Down Boy)))
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that spray is needed for all the WH's <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

D.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/05/03 10:30 PM
Wallace ,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I know what you are all thinking... that I led her on, and unknowingly I did... your right... I'm guilty. I didn't realize it at the time and it wasn't done intentionally
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We all KNOW it was not intentional! That never crossed my mind!

To be honest, I think SHE needs to grow a little bit too. It hasn't been that long since her D, and she seems to be carrying the marriage ball and running with it much more than you. I'm sure she realizes that you are as good a "catch" as you think she is.

As for the "Down Boy" spray....EC and WGTT were right - but maybe some of these lady friends need it too. What do you think? LOL

Petvet
I'm sorry your ExW was putting your son in the middle of your situation. At least she apologized for her reactionary behavior. Your post this morning sounded much better. So tell us about YOUR lady friend before it's too late <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

EC - You sound like you're doing good too. Has your OD talked any more about moving to you and going to school there?

WGTT ♥ thanks for showing me ♥

Relady , how are you doing? Any more news from your pastor about your H? Are you still in a holding pattern?

FAA, ThePits, RMA, Dave (& anyone else) Hope you are all having a great week. The days are getting longer and I'm looking forward to spring <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 03/06/03 02:11 AM
Good gravy! How does a person ever get to retire from this place, one may ask!?!?!??

Petvet and others: look, just because you stood in court and a judge declared your marriage over legally - that doesn't just make all the feelings magically go away. You loved your W. She hurt you and disappointed you in the biggest way. Yet, you still loved her for a long time after finding out about all the lies, didn't you? Of course you did....because you had a deep and abiding love for her. Yes, you were taken to the point of divorce by her choices, not yours. But, it is still going to take awhile to get rid of those lingering feelings for your exW. You say you are moving on, and I do believe that you will take the steps necessary to bring some order, stability and happier experiences into your life. Just take your time, Petvet. Love isn't built in a day...as my moniker says, it is built by little kindnesses over a period of time. Love isn't destroyed in a day, either, just because the judge dissolved the legal union. You have a ways to go yet, friend. In time, Petvet, in time. Keep your mind and your heart focused and those positive experiences and people will become a bigger part of your life!

Wallace, Wallace, Wallace. I can see where you are. Been there myself a long time ago. Here are some things for you to ponder:

- You are lonely. You have been lonely for a long time and having a companion is fun! Yes, it is fun.
- Almost everyone who has been betrayed at some point desires some validation from a member of the opposite sex that they are "worthy of love". Being with someone right now really does help to fill that need for validation, doesn't it?
- All relationships deserve an honest start and a fair chance at success. Can't we all say that being in a relationship with another takes time, energy and some amount of work? After having a failed relationship, wouldn't you want to start another relationship giving yourself the very best chances of success by having 100% of your energy and efforts focused on the new person?
- You already are admitting that you are getting sucked into more than you are ready to handle right now. How can that not lead to more heartache and disappointment further down the road?

I am not trying to moralize, philosophise or anything like that. I am trying to point to things you know but are choosing to ignore.

Ask yourself these questions:
- Am I lonely and enjoying the attention from my lady or am I truly and deeply in love?
- Does it feed my ego to have her desiring me so much? Am I also desiring her in an equal fashion for the right reasons?
- Do I still devote a significant amount of time and energy trying to figure out what happened in my previous relationship? Do I understand what part I paid to the demise of my marriage? Have I formulated a plan to address my own issues? Have I stuck by the plan I formulated and is it working?
- Have I given my children a sufficient amount of my time and energy to help them with their own issues and healing?
- Am I in a financially sound position to even consider being in another relationship?

There are other questions, but the point is to give yourself a reality test and see how you score, Wallace.

If you are not ready to be THAT serious, then don't. If your lady won't wait for you to be ready, then she is NOT the one. If you want to date and have fun, do so. But, don't do what so many WS's do - use a relationship with this lady to mask and distract you from other issues you need to be dealing with!

Wallace, I have been divorced over 3 years now. I have been seeing my guy almost since then. I knew him for several years before I divorced. He and I started as friends, then companions and then it built to love. I am sorry if this seemed like a bombshell to ya'll, but in truth we have discussed this for quite a number of months. The most important thing to us both was to have sufficient time: time for my healing and then time for us to get to know each other on a deeper level. You know what we say about the WS, well much of that is true about any new relationship! In the beginning, the OP can do no wrong, and neither can our new love interests! It takes time to get comfortable enough with someone to let your guard down to become your natural self....not your dating persona.

You are not ready, Wallace, and you know it. You owe it to yourself, your lady, your children, your other family and friends to spend sufficient time to get to know this person better to determine if she will make a good mate for you. You owe it to the same group listed above to heal yourself sufficiently so that you may know if your feelings for her are grounded in true love and not neediness on your part. Date and have fun, but do not even seriously think of more than that right now. ALL good things are worth waiting for, Wallace..including you!

Respectfully, RMA

PS: Avondale, you are a sweetie! Pitch in and send him that can of spray, please!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/06/03 11:54 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: It's best to start out as friends. I know I am starting out as friends personally. Besides, we have been out of the dating arena for quite some time. It takes time to sharpen our skills again.

RMA: I'm glad you are back.

Me: Folks! I think I am going to have major problems with exw. She is complaining about everything I am doing as it relates to kid. She is out to get me. She is very bitter. What should I do? Avondale, in due time I will let the cat out.

I am sooo gone.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/06/03 04:42 PM
Hi All,

I don't think you will need to send that can of "Down Boy"... LOL. I already have a 5 gallon bucket of it... and I used it as bath water last night.

My "lady friend" and I went to Church service last night, and then we went to Denny's for a snack. While we were in Denny's... not only did I soak myself in "Down Boy", I found the brake pedal, as well as the emergency brake... and used them both.

Needless to say... she was not a very happy camper (and that is putting it lightly). After I indicated that I needed more time, etc.... she stated to me that "I burst her bubble". I asked her, "would you care to elaborate on that last statement"? Long story short... she said absolutely nothing... literally. I decided to end the evening... and upon departing from Denny's I asked her,"do you want me to call you tomorrow? She said, "If you want to".

So that's that for that. Needless to say, red flags went up all over the place for me.

As always... you all have given me some excellent advice concerning this.

I'm not sure where I'm headed with this. In fact, maybe I need to take a break from all of it.

I guess the question I have... is should I even call her.

RMA...

I'm still going through all of your questions... when I figure it all out... I'll post my answers.
Glad to see your still out there.

avondale...

I think my "lady friend", has some issues that she needs to clear up as bad as I do.

EC...

Great idea... using the "Down Boy"... it really works well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WGTT...

I also heard of a spray that is out there for the WW... It's called "Slow down girl" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Petvet...

I'm starting to realize that it's easier just being single and by yourself.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ March 06, 2003, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 03/06/03 07:51 PM
Hey All,

I'm back. That's the longest I have ever been in Las Vegas! Learned a lot, shopped a lot, ate a lot and slept a lot.

RMA,

Sorry to hear about your father, fathers' are very special in a girl's life.

Congratulations on your marriage, I'm not surprised, you are an awesome and wise lady. Thank you for slapping Wallace in the head while I was gone. I think he's finally got it.! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Avondale,

I haven't heard anything else from 'H', nor have I questioned my pastor. I'm just doing what I do. God's timing is perfect, so I'm not spending a lot of time thinking about it.

WGTT

You are right about that 'spray' for WH, WW. Think it will work from a distance! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace,

My, My, My I knew you were holding out on us! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Too bad the 'come clean' serum worked while I was gone, and you're on the right road, now I have no reason to harrass you. darn!

Those 'red flags' have been going up a long time, you were just blinded by the color!

Petvet

You are very welcome for the advice, anytime.

Your exw can be out to get you all she wants, it doesn't mean she will succeed. Your goal should be to nurture your son and let him know you love him and are here for him. And please, please do not bad mouth your exw to him. Funny thing about children, they don't care, she is still mommy, and you are still daddy. And don't defend yourself, it will appear as though you're doing something wrong. IMHO

Carlton Sheets, a scam artist? Shame on you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC,

Are you talking about 2 years after a divorce? So, if you're separated 3 years, then 2 after that?

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/06/03 09:44 PM
Hey y'all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Relady, welcome back. In all the excitement about weddings and almost weddings, I forgot where you had gone! All I know about Vegas I got from watching CSI, lol.

Wallace , those questions from RMA are great food for thought. I'm sorry about the way it all came down when you had to "get real" last night. But it showed you a few things, I'm sure. Here's my two cent's worth:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I guess the question I have... is should I even call her.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you call her, it may be stirring up the pot again. Your history with her has shown that she doesn't need incentive to start thinking of a future with you, and I wonder if a phone call would put that in motion again.(?) Perhaps if you feel further clarification, apology, or whatever is necessary, sending a card or email might be something to consider.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think my "lady friend", has some issues that she needs to clear up as bad as I do </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think she may have more - because of the actions that she's shown over the last few months. That does NOT mean she's a bad woman - it just means she jumped too soon into something that is way too serious to consider.

EVERYONE - I had never heard of Carleton Sheets until it was brought up on this thread. Does that mean that all of y'all are going into real estate investing??
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 03/07/03 03:39 PM
Hi Gang! Hope everyone is doing ok?

Petvet - I hope you are doing better since you DV day, it all comes as an emotional blow but as time goes on you realize what you just walked out of and start feeling the joy as weeks and months pass by...right now your exw feels she paraded over you but give it time she'll have to face herself and her problems, what she did to you, she'll do to someone else.

Relady - How long should a person wait? When does 2+ plus years start? Just in my opinion, but I think it depends on what you've been through and the process of it all, everybody and every case is diff, but a person should be true to themselves. To use me as an example: I've been separated from exw on my own now for 2 years, but for me its been 2 1/2 years of struggle and war, the DV was May 2002 (10 months ago), so in my case, I feel I won't truly be ready to M until another 2 years if I decided. In 1 year I feel I could start dating if need be, until then I'll just hang loose and work on me healing and start living the single life.....Also It really depends on how long your marriage was prior and what happened that it collasped, as long as you fixed you thats all that matters.

Avondale - I haven't spoke to OD since weeks ago, but she's slowly coming around, I'm sure soon as I get my act together things will be better. As far as Carlton Sheets, I got my kit that I ordered and have started studing the material, as Relady said its work involved, it's not some get rich quick scheme nor some magical instant overnight success thing, but you can become wealthy in time, as with anything what you put into it is what you get out of it. Once you know where your talent is you'll know which way to go with it. As with anything don't ever let anybody tell you what you can and can't do when you want to accomplish something because the person that is speaking to you is speaking out of their own fears, you know you better than they do. Whatever you do, do it with passion.

Wallace - I'm sure you will recover as you set the pace for you and your lady friend, I think in the end she'll respect you more and trust you more because she'll see that you just don't fall for anybody that comes you way and she'll see that any woman will have to go through a process of layers to obtain you, she'll know you're not cheap and easy....Also when she shows you some endurance you'll have more trust for her too.

As far as the 5 gallon of "Down Boy" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Maybe there's an extra strength formula out there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm sure the ladies could take a dip also, LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/07/03 04:08 PM
I do NOT need to dip in the "Down Boy" formula, thank you very much, LOL (at least not yet) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 03/07/03 07:09 PM
I will post more later, but just got off phone with BIL and am overwelmed by the love and concern of WH's family (WH's 4 brothers) WOW.
They are going to attempt another intervention on WH.

Gotta get back to work. D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/07/03 07:48 PM
Hi All,

Hope everyone is having a good day today... the weekend is just about here.

Petvet...

When you say that your exW is out to get you... do you think she is trying to set you up to possibly have the child custody issue brought back up and into Court? Do you think she may want to obtain custody of your son, so she doesn't have to pay CS? I'm trying to get a fix on what she is attempting to do... something seems out of whack... why would she be so bitter?

Is it because she now has to live with the ramifications of all that has transpired?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

relady...

Welcome back relady, glad you made it back home safe and sound.

"Come Clean Serum"? LOL... there is all kinds of medications that I've been hit with this week... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The "Down Boy" and the "Come Clean Serum" are both working just fine for me at the moment. You will see why... when I attempt to answer RMA questions that she put forth as well as responding to avondale's post.

avondale...

I went ahead and called my "lady friend" yesterday. I thought it was something that needed to be done... be it good bad or indifferent.

After a very long telephone conversation... she accepted the fact that I'm not going to make any knee jerk moves... and I am going to take things at my own pace. She is willing to just date, and not expect anything more than that for the time being. She indicated that she would not want to pressure me into M, and she would wait, when I know that I am ready to make such a commitment.

So at the moment... everything is moving at the pace that I have setforth... slow... very very slow.

EC...

I think you pretty well summed up everything that I have been feeling and thinking. Trust in a relationship for me... is a huge issue that I am currently dealing with. It's going to take quite awhile for me to get to the point where I am ready to let my walls and my guard down.

RMA...

I'm still going through some of the questions that you brought forward... it's going to take me some time to give an honest answer... I really have to dig deep to come up with what is the real answer to all of your questions.

I hope everyone has a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/08/03 12:59 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: Oh Boy! She got a rude awakening and did not like temperature of the water. Oh well, she will get over it, I hope or you will know that she is not a good candidate. I would not sweat it if I was you because this is a test. Down Boy?

Relady: I did not mean to knock Sheats too seriously, but his infomercials are funny because some people think that you can get rich quick. How was Vegas (one of my favorite cities)?

WGTT: Let us know what happens with intervention.

Me: Yes, I believe exw will attempt to regain custody in the future. She has already said that she is taking notes. It does not bother me. I have moved forward. I need to go over RMA's questions too.

I'm long gone.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/10/03 04:38 PM
Hi All,

Well, as usual the weekend went by way to fast.

Petvet...

I somewhat suspected that your exW was going to try something concerning the CS issue. If you stay the course with what your doing... I don't think it should be a concern.

Me...

Well my "lady friend and I went out for dinner Friday night. I believe that between the both of us... we got everything put into perspective and straightened out.

No expectations of M at the moment... and she said she would wait for me for however long it takes.

Nothing else really new, now it's on to my taxes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I hope everyone has a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/10/03 10:47 PM
Hi Y'all,
I've had a rough weekend and today was no fun either <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . For some reason, I've been "stirred up" about my husband all weekend. Not sure why - not stirred up in the sense of anger, OR in a sense of prayer. No reason I could put my finger on.

You may recall (or not) my mom died 2 yrs ago this week, then about 3 months later my H had an EA with OW over that summer, then my son joined a political cult in early 2002, then husband told me he was leaving to pursue his PhD along with OW last summer, daughter got married in June, and H left. My father decided to build a home out of state and it's almost completed.

I've been doing fairly well, or so I thought, until we did a preliminary move today, taking the things dad didn't want to a storage unit to keep for my daughter. Whew! Remembering my mom, missing my dad (even though he doesn't move until end of month)leaving the home I grew up in and that my kids played in so much (parents in same town), all the holidays there when we were all together - geez, I'm crying as I type this. I may have to take a couple of Tylenol PM's tonight.
Anyway, had to vent, I know y'all would understand. And it does make me smile everytime I see EC's comment at the tope of the page to Wallace about "Hey Loverboy"

<small>[ March 10, 2003, 04:51 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/10/03 11:16 PM
Hi avondale,

My heart goes out to you, as we all have had days and weekends very similiar to what you are feeling and going through... there is nothing easy about them.

I do remember what had happened... and you are going through some triggers right now. To me... they are as hard as any part of what we have been through... sometimes worse.

When they come up... I pray to the Lord to help me get past it... and it usually subsides in short time.

Your right.... everytime I click on this thread... I see that "Loverboy" and start laughing. That was a good one EC .

Hang in there avondale... you are still on the rollercoaster ride... it just isn't so hard to ride at this point in time.

Prayers and blessings to you avondale.

Petvet, RMA, Dave, relady, EC, WGTT, FAA, ThePits, and anyone else that I might have missed...

I hope you are all doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/11/03 07:07 PM
Thanks Wallace, today has gone a LOT better. I guess I know more about triggers now than I did last month when I was asking about them, huh? No fun there, for sure!

Hope everyone's week is going well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 03/11/03 10:45 PM
{{{{{{Avondale}}}}}

This is one of those times as I mentioned that you just want to turn yourself upside down and empty out your head! Neverending thoughts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

My prayers are with you. Take it slow, and don't allow your thoughts to take you over. Hard, but necessary.

We're here for you.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/12/03 04:52 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: One of the problems you are going through now is loniness. You feel as though you have been desserted by everyone and you are on this island by yourself. Well, believe it or not, I am going through the same thing so to speak because I don't want to be around the house without anything to do because I think about the past, so kid and I get out. If I don't have any business to handle at the house, I get out and explore. You may need to do the same thing.

Wallace: Just take your time and enjoy the nice company you have in the way of your lady friend.

Relady: Where are you emotionally right now?

Me: Just trying to stay busy.

And I'm gone.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/12/03 04:23 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

I've been having somewhat of a rough time these last couple of days myself... as I have been hit by so many triggers this past weekend... it feels like I'm taking on machine gun fire.

A number of things have come up this past month and counting for me. My 1st year D-day is in about a month... and I'm really having a hard time of it. I don't know why I am having triggers... I just know that I am (Satan's doing probably). It's like I have said before... you can't just erase from your memory all the years that you once had with your spouse. IMHO, it just doesn't work that fast or well... it takes time... a lot of time to get over all the pain and anguish that was dealt out.
Wounds that cut that deep... take time to heal and to mend. Be good to yourself, it's your time to look after yourself and heal. It's one of the many stages and a processes that we all go through.

I agree with relady and Petvet, with what they stated... you do want to turn yourself upside-down and empty your head... and feeling alone is one area that is all too common.

For me... I have been handing it to the Lord and I have been asking him to take it. These triggers come and go... some days are better than others. But I have faith in the Lord that he will see me through this. As Petvet stated... keeping busy does help. When these triggers come up... hand it to the Lord, and pray to allow him to take it away. IMHO, it's Satan that is working on you... causing confusion and such... don't allow it.

My prayers are with you, as I know the angst that you are going through... give it to the Lord, it will get better

I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 03/13/03 05:21 PM
Hi All,

It's already Thursday, this week has flown by.

Petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where are you emotionally right now? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like it better when you stick to real estate questions, those I can answer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Today, they are fine, tomorrow they could be out of wack. It just depends on the triggers I have. I don't have nearly as many these days.

Unlike the rest of you, I haven't seen or talked to my H in 8 months. So, when and if I talk to or see him, will the emotions I think are in check come flooding out and betray me. Who Knows?

What I can tell you is that, I'm enjoying my life, making my own decisions and being the very best person that I can be without depending on anyone other than the Lord.

I say all that to say, I guess I really don't have a clue!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Wallace

Come on Wallace, step up to the plate and answer RMA's questions. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

How are you doing?

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/13/03 07:28 PM
The weekend is almost here, I can smell it, LOL

Relady - You know, I think of you pretty often. I don't know if it's easier or more difficult in not seeing your H. At least I have some clue as to where my husband is heading with this separation thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But you don't have that, and I'm sorry! You sound like you're doing great, though, regardless of your circumstances!

Wallace , thanks again for your ongoing encouragement! I am praying more, and I do "let go and let God". He knows my needs better than I do, that's for sure.

Petvet - You're right, lonliness probably contributes to this feeling. I am trying to stay busy with constructive stuff. Now that it's almost spring, I will probably be doing more outside projects (yard/garden) which will help too. And I just found out my attic insulation has fallen down, so I can do that, LOL. Around a 60 year old house there's always something, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

EC - Haven't heard from you in a few days. Anything going on with you?

RMA, Dave, WGTT, FAA, ThePits, and anyone else that I might have missed, - hope all is well! Not sure who all to address anymore <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/13/03 09:30 PM
Hi all,

I have been deliberating over RMA's questions for awhile.

I still am not sure what the answers are... but I will try and answer them as best I can.

This computer I am on does not like to do a cut and paste for quotes real well... so we will see how well this works or doesn't work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

This is going to be a long one... so here goes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- Am I lonely and enjoying the attention from my lady or am I truly and deeply in love? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is one of the questions that I was having a hard time with. I think the true answer to this questions is that I am sometimes lonely, and I do enjoy the attention that I am currently getting from my "lady friend".

I'm not truly or deeply in love with her at this point in time. I believe you have to get to know someone and learn to like them, before you can truly be in love with them. I am going to try to not make the same mistake I did in my previous marriage and marry someone that I don't believe I know almost inside and out. I want to know just exactly what makes them tick... and I want them to know just exactly how I work as well. In other words, I want no suprises.

Is it realistic to think that there will be no surpises... no probably not... but I can try to alleviate as much as I can by approaching it this way IMHO.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- Does it feed my ego to have her desiring me so much? Am I also desiring her in an equal fashion for the right reasons? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The answer to these two questions are, no and no.

IMHO, I don't believe I really have an ego of sorts. It's kind of like pride... I lost all of that some time ago... when all of the wonderfulness in my M occurred.

Since then... I have become very aware of how sinful it is. I have learned through God's word how to be humble. It wasn't an easy transition... but I think I achieved a place that I can truly say that I have indeed humbled myself.

Are we equal in our desires for each other for the right reasons? I think only time will tell.

I know that she is in love with me... and I'm not quite at the same level of love with her as she is with me. I have a lot of baggage that I'm trying to unload...and I am still carrying around quite a bit of baggage even still. I'm working on getting rid of the remaining baggage, but it will take time to unload it all. She is aware of it, as well as I. That amongst other things, is one of the many reasons I don't want to commit to anything but just dating at this particular point in time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- Do I still devote a significant amount of time and energy trying to figure out what happened in my previous relationship? Do I understand what part I paid to the demise of my marriage? Have I formulated a plan to address my own issues? Have I stuck by the plan I formulated and is it working? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There isn't a day that goes by that I don't ponder the above questions... I have run my "M" through my head from day one to the present everyday... and as I write this I can truly say that I don't understand what part I played in the demise of my "M". I wasn't perfect make no mistake about that... but to have a "M" take off in the direction that mine did... I really don't haave the answer for that one. Towards the end of my "M", I did in fact shut down on her... but the damage was already done. With all that had happened... I really didn't think I could of made a go of it. That was until I found this site... unfortunately, I found this site too late.

So now I am applying these principals to my new relationship... and my relationship with my "lady friend" is far better than I would of ever imagined. Too bad I couldn't of used these principals in my "M". Would it of made I difference in the outcome... I really don't know.

I have formulated a plan for my own development.

I'm using the Bible as my instruction book... and I'm trying to follow it as best I can. I stumble from time to time. But I pick myself back up and continue my walk with the Lord. I take each day one day at a time... and I try to do the best I can each and every day.

I'm not always successful, but I just keep on trying to improve myself in the eyes of the Lord, and with the people I am associated with and care for.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- Have I given my children a sufficient amount of my time and energy to help them with their own issues and healing? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is another grey area for me... I'm not sure how long their healing process will take. I don't think any of us do. To tell you the truth... I'm not sure if they will ever fully recover from what happened completely. We will all probably wear the scars from what happened for the rest of our lives IMHO.

My children always know that I will be there for them until the day I die. I'm still the same Dad that they have always known... that's one constant that I tried to keep stable through out this whole ordeal.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
- Am I in a financially sound position to even consider being in another relationship?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well I think most of you know what kind of financial hit I took.

But... to answer your question... I don't think finances should determine... or be a barometer for a relationship or how much you care for someone. If your with the right person... it shouldn't be a determining factor... even though it is one of the biggest single causes for the downfall for many marriages.

IMHO, I'm sure there are many people who are poor that have very successful marriages... probably more so than people with wealth, but that's JMHO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So to answer the question... I never looked at a relationship in terms of dollars and cents. If I did, I would be doing a disservice to both her and I. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

That's probably not the answer you were looking for... LOL... But in terms of finances... yes, I am capable of fullfilling that need. But I wouldn't want someone that has their priorities in that area.

Well, there you have it! I know some of the answers are probably vague. It's not intentional... I'm a better speaker than a writer... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope everyone has a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/13/03 10:43 PM
Wallace,
You were pretty brave to answer RMA's questions like you did. I think they were great questions! But I have a question for you too: It is obvious that you and your "lady friend" are at different stages, of a sort. Is she wrestling with some of the triggers, etc. that you are? If not, how come? Has she gone through any of the grieving process? I thought you had said she was divorced not long before you, which makes me wonder if perhaps she isn't as attuned to her emotions and feelings as you are to yours. If not, couldn't that come back to haunt her (and therefore, you) down the road? Just food for thought <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

We need to come up with an ID for your "lady friend" too. Maybe LF ? Who was the love of William Wallace's life? Hmm....
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/14/03 04:52 PM
Hi all,

Well I lost my post... the MBers gremlin got it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

That's what I get... trying to cut and paste on this old computer here at work... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We need to come up with an ID for your "lady friend" too. Maybe LF ? Who was the love of William Wallace's life? Hmm.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I like "LF", that works for me... I'll stick with that.

To the best of my knowledge... and I believe from a historical standpoint... William Wallace was never married. In the movie, "Braveheart"... I believe his wife's name was "Murron McCauly"(sp.)

It is my understanding that what finally spurred William Wallace to take arms up against the English to secure Scotland's freedom, was due to the English killing his father. He also had three Uncles (not just one) that helped in teaching him how to read, speak several languages, and fight.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a question for you too: It is obvious that you and your "lady friend" are at different stages, of a sort. Is she wrestling with some of the triggers, etc. that you are? If not, how come? Has she gone through any of the grieving process? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"LF" is in fact wrestling with some of the triggers and issues that she was left with concerning her "M". Her "H" was having multiple affairs for most of her married life, and she did "D" him one week before I divorced.

She has gone through the grieving process, and IMHO, she is still going through the cycles. How long will it last? Only she can answer that.

So since we are both still dealing with the baggage that we still carry... we have both decided to just date and see where it takes us.

Maybe "M" in the future... maybe not. Only time will tell.

Petvet...

Haven't heard from you for awhile... I'm getting nervous... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady...

Can you feel Spring time in the air? This is my favorite time of year.. Spring!

I hope everyone has a good day today and a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 03/14/03 05:17 PM
Hey All,

Well it's Friday once again, I hope everyone has a great weekend.

Avondale

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know if it's easier or more difficult in not seeing your H. At least I have some clue as to where my husband is heading with this separation thing. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think there is still one thing that you guys continue to miss about me and that is:

My complete and unwavering trust is in the Lord. The only thing I need to do is pray and believe He is working everything out to my good. Even if I were in contact with my H, do you think the clues of where I'm headed would be accurate? I think not. Circumstances are not always what they seem. Are you any happier for having a clue? Do you believe he is giving accurate clues in his state of mind? A person who does what our WH's have done is in 'darkness' and they don't have a 'clue' as to what they are doing.

I want all my 'clues' to come from the Lord. And He gives me just enough information to take the next step. When the Lord gave Joseph the dream of the palace, Did He show him the pit? NO I wonder why? It probably would have changed everything. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Without this experience, I would not have grown as I have, or have the relationship with the Lord that I have. If He felt I needed to talk to or see my H, He would make it happen. His timing is perfect. It's when we force things that we experience hurt, and I'm not into pain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So, no sorrys' accepted, I'm <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> .

Wallace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and as I write this I can truly say that I don't understand what part I played in the demise of my "M". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you sit down and prayerfully ask the Lord that question, I guarantee you'll get an answer. These are not usually 'surface' answers. He is the only one that knows what's buried deep in our hearts.

When my part was revealed to me, I fell on my face in tears! It's things we try to forget, hide. Sometimes it's in our childhood. It could be a flaw that we never acknowledged. But trust me, when it's exposed, you'll feel such relief and wholeness you have never known before.

OK, soapbox time over, Everyone have a great and wonderful weekend.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/14/03 10:59 PM
Relady,
You know that sometimes when one is corresponding online (especially with people one doesn't know personally) it is easy to misunderstand and/or misconstrue comments typed. I think that must be what has happened here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">quote from Avondale:
I don't know if it's easier or more difficult in not seeing your H. At least I have some clue as to where my husband is heading with this separation thing.

Relady's response:I think there is still one thing that you guys continue to miss about me and that is: My complete and unwavering trust is in the Lord. The only thing I need to do is pray and believe He is working everything out to my good. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My complete trust is in the Lord also. However, the fact that I sometimes have to interact with or hear/read in the paper of my H could be and is used by the enemy to make my faith waver and at the very least get my eyes off Him for that moment. All I meant was that if I didn't interact with H, maybe that would make my stand easier (then again, maybe not - which is my point). I certainly didn't mean any disrespect to you. I think we are all trying to do the best we can where we are at right now, in our walks with God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Even if I were in contact with my H, do you think the clues of where I'm headed would be accurate? I think not. Circumstances are not always what they seem. Are you any happier for having a clue? Do you believe he is giving accurate clues in his state of mind? A person who does what our WH's have done is in 'darkness' and they don't have a 'clue' as to what they are doing.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're exactly right. I forget that sometimes, and thanks for pointing it out to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC, ok, I'm officially worried now, haven't heard from you all week!
Have a great weekend, EVERYONE!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 03/14/03 11:58 PM
Avondale

First let me say, I am not easily offended, and I never took your comment as being disrespectful. We all do the same thing, we answer and advise to the best of our knowledge. When I say 'missed' I mean what is written. Of course you don't know me personally! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> At least I have some clue as to where my husband is heading with this separation thing. But you don't have that, and I'm sorry! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is the entire phrase that prompted my response. Doesn't this mean you're sorry I don't have a 'clue' as to where my H is heading with this separation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Petvet,

Do you see what you started? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace

Yes, Spring is in the air and I love it. I'm going to a birthday party in San Diego next weekend and I'm renting a convertible for the occasion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Everyone

Have a great weekend.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/15/03 12:38 PM
Hi all! Sorry I have not been able to hit this site very often but I have been busy with taxes and kid.

Relady: I hope you have not gotten into a comfort zone with your situation. Yes, you have not heard from your H, but you must think of the future and take control. You are not in control now. You are going to go crazy unless you get some sort of direction with your relationship.

Wallace: I think what many people don't understand is that even though we may be recently D, our spouses were emotionally detacted from us for quite a while, so to get involve with someone is not necessarily a quick thing. It's so nice to have a outlet for those energies. Would you agree?

Where's everyone else?

And I'm gone.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 03/16/03 05:47 PM
Hey All,

Petvet

Just a quick note.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You are not in control now. You are going to go crazy unless you get some sort of direction with your relationship.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's always amazing to me how people project how they would act in my situation and think I should act the same way. NO LOL, I will not go crazy. And no matter how much you plan, scheme, dedicate your life to, you are never really in control! Are you in control of your situation? No, because you're still wondering what will happen to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> So, I have eliminated the 'worry' step. He can't take my money (we had a pre-nup) because of my taxes. We had no joint accounts, His name is not on my house. So what do I need to know? I'm not concerned about the direction of my relationship, because whatever direction it takes is OK with me. I haven't stopped my life, I'm moving forward, I'm in no hurry. My peace comes from the Lord. And He alone directs my path.

Besides all that, life is way too short to be concerned about things you have no control over! Especially when your dealing with 'grownups' or is that a fair term for WS's?

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/17/03 05:41 AM
Hi all!

Relady: To the contrary, I am not trying to project my feelings or judgements to your situation. I was only reacting to your comments concerning triggers. If you are ok with your situation, that's fine; however, I was just offering up the opinion that you may want to make plans in case your husband does not come back. On the outside, it seems as though you are so care free and have moved on with your life. Granted, we are different people and such; however, our situations are similar. You know what's best for you. As you well know, we try to offer help and advice to everyone on this thread.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 03/17/03 03:54 PM
Hi TL Gang!

Avondale - I'm still here, everything is going pretty good. It's so odd coming to the place of peace for once. Now that I have no current battles with exw and don't plan on having any, I feel my life has become more peaceful than ever, I'm really feeling more rapid road to recovery.

Wallace - Hey WALLACE YOU WILD HAIRY ROOSTER! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I see the Tough Love hens have pecked your feathers off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ....I tell you what, don't get out line around here, they'll question your motives, I guess better you than me this go around <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ....

That's good you were honest to answer all the questions.

But of course as we know they do it love, what GREAT ladies we have here, not many people out there that will be truthful with you.

Petvet - Hope things are looking up for you. As always keep an open mind and guard your heart and make wise moves.

Me: Just taking it one day at a time and trying to enjoy myself.

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/17/03 04:23 PM
Hi all,

I hope everyone had a good weekend. Mine was pretty good... but I didn't get everything I wanted done, done. In fact I didn't get anything I wanted done, done.

EC...

O.K., I'm officially concerned now. If your out there let us know how your doing when you get a chance.

Petvet...

I have to agree with you in conjunction with the detachment phase concerning us and our WS/exS. Concerning my situation, it basically began over 3-1/2 years ago.

I've got taxes that I still have to deal with. I have a ton of things staring me in the face right at the moment. It all seems to hit in waves.



avondale and relady...

I think what we have here IMHO is just a basic misfire in terms of what was posted versus what was actually meant. Hey, I do it all the time... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'll give you my take on my situation... I or my children that live with me haven't seen nor heard one word from my exW in almost a year. I can't speak for my kids, but I think in all reality... I prefer it this way... but that's just me. Everyone is different in terms of how they would like to interact with their WS. I guess if your WS can't act somewhat normal... then their is no sense in dealing with them unless you absolutely have to.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Hope everyone has a good day and a good week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ March 17, 2003, 10:57 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/17/03 04:30 PM
Hey EC,

We must of cross posted... LOL.

I agree... the ladies here are some of the best around... and I'm glad they are with us.

They keep me walking the straight line.

Glad to hear that your doing good... it's a good place to be.

relady...

As soon as the whether gets a little nicer.. I'm going to go out for a nice long ride and let the wind blow through my hair. I'm looking forward to being able to hang out outside again. I do love the Spring time.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 03/18/03 06:54 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a wonderful weekend.

Petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you may want to make plans in case your husband does not come back. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am all ears, and open to suggestions. What kind of plans besides divorce?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On the outside, it seems as though you are so care free and have moved on with your life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If 'care free' means enjoying my life, Guilty If moving on with my life, means bettering myself, preparing for my future, Guilty

There is no denying that I have triggers, however; they don't rule my life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As you well know, we try to offer help and advice to everyone on this thread.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And as you well know, I appreciate each and everyone of you for your help and advice. And I'm sure I'll appreciate it even more when and if I ever have contact with my H. Each of us have individual situations and lifestyles, and we give advice from our prospective and position instead of in a general sense.

Since I have no children from this marriage, no long term history like the rest of you, my thoughts and actions will be much different. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace

You never have a 'basic misfire of terms', you just leave things out to confuse us. LOL

It rained here all day Saturday, but Sunday was clear and beautiful. Hopefully next weekend will be better.

I prefer the 'no contact' as well, less grief. Although my 'H' has been doing little things behind the scenes to get my attention, but I haven't responded.

EC

Thank you for the compliment. How is your real estate course coming along? Feel free to ask me any questions. I'm in the process of getting my teaching credentials to be able to teach real estate in the near future. I can practice on you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

I hope you had a great weekend.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 03/18/03 04:20 PM
Hi Everyone..

Wallace - You're right the ladies here are wonderful, it's nice to know there are some still out there with some integrity.....

Me: YD called last night and she started talking openly on a lot of her frustrations and said she wants to talk some more, said she will call me tonight. She asked me whatever we talk about to keep it a secret, so I promised and vowed to her whatever is said stays with me. She said she considered coming to live with me but is burnt out on trying to make new friends, I told her why worry about having friends first when you have lots of family here your age? I said family first friends 2nd for now.

Relady - The course is going good, its real and you can make money which brings me to a question of what you think? What would you do?

As you know I'm regrouping trying to get my life back together. I currently live in a nice apartment, but it's a passing through place. I'm close to being debt free but definitly by the end of the year...will only have about $1,500 worth of total debt left.

My Question?

Would you buy a house first by the end of the year? or here's the other senerio. I found a duplex (2 units) I could buy for $49,000, appraised at $57,000. The unit has rent income of $1,100 per month therefore the mortgage pmt on the unit would be about $400-500 per month after taxes and insurance, $600 remaining free cash.

A. In my case, would you plan to move out of my Apt and buy a house, then buy a duplex? In that case the duplex would pay for itself, plus pay my house pmt or part of it.

B. Stay in my current Apt and buy the duplex, then a house?

C. Stay in my Apt buy the duplex and sell it and make $8,000 and then invest into other property?

I know living in a Apt you lose money but it's not like I have lots of money flying out the window either.

Remember houses and the cost of living varies from state to state. This $49,000 duplex would be worth $90,000 example: FL

The house I want would cost about $90- $100,000 but in another state it would cost $200-$300,000.

What you think?

Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/19/03 12:10 PM
Hi all!

Relady: I understand. I just wanted you to know that I care.

EC: I was happy to hear from you. You are correct when you said that no contact with WS is better than having to deal with them. You will see what I mean a little later.

Wallace: It is not possible to get everything done; one has to make priorities.

Me: Kid's mom is trying to be a major pain in the butt. She thinks that it is possible for each of us to 100% parent our child from different households. It is not possible for that to happen under the present circumstances. My son's Sunday school teacher recommended that kid get baptize this Easter. His mom went balistic and said that she want him to decide. I told her yesterday that no matter what I say or do, she will not like it.

And I'm gone.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 03/20/03 12:02 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone is having a great week.

Avondale,

I hope I didn't offend you or come on too strong. If I did, I apologize. I noticed you have posted in a while.

Petvet

Thank you for your concern. I believe you honestly care. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm really OK though. If I wasn't, you guys would know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC

I wish I could buy 2 units for $49,000. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If I were you, I would buy the units, live in one, raise the rent in the other and the rent on your side would be less than the rent you're paying now.

If you buy it and sell it, you really wouldn't be making $8,000 after you pay costs and commissions.

If you purchased it and stayed in an Apt. you would have to make a higher down payment, because the property would be 'non-owner occupied' and most lenders want more security in the property if the owner lives somewhere else. Plus, why would you want to continue renting when you own property.

Besides throwing money away, you're helping someone else pay off their mortgage on their property. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Everyone Else

Hope all is well,
God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/21/03 12:43 PM
Hi Y'all,

Relady - I'm fine, just haven't had a lot to say. Thanks for saying that, though.

I'm running down to the beach for the weekend with daughter and son-in-law. The weather should be warm & sunny, the change of scenery will do us good, and son-in-law has never seen family beach house. Hope I don't have triggers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Enjoy your weekends!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/21/03 04:12 PM
Hey all,

Well I finally finished digging out from the snow storms we had... at least for awhile.

We got all told about approximately 52" of snow at my house. I had plenty of snapped branches and trees. It will take probably a good week to get everything back in to shape.

Got a good workout though... thank goodness for heating pads... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think I shoveled a couple of tons of snow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

EC...

Anytime you can buy a house versus renting one is almost always the best direction to take. I wish I could buy a house over here for $100,000.00. You can't touch a cardbox with land for that price over here.

Sounds like your YD is thinking about possibly coming to live with you. I know how much that means to you.

relady...

I am pleased to hear that you are handling everything well. I knew you were... keep up the good work.

Oh, I leave things out to confuse? No, what would make you think that? LOL... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet...

You sound like your battle still rages on like mine. I'm glad I don't have to talk to my exW. Don't you wish they would just do things the easy way?

Well I hope everyone has a good day and a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/24/03 01:42 AM
Hi Y'all,

EC , that's great news...very encouraging about your YD. Wouldn't it be something if they BOTH came together to live with you?

Petvet - What does your son say about being baptized? Would there be any reason why he couldn't wait for a year or so, aside from his Sunday School teacher's recommendation? I'm sorry your exw is being so difficult!

Wallace - Do you have any sons living at home? If so, I hope they did their share of snow shoveling! In Colorado you are used to 52" though, aren't you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL

Relady - I'm impressed at the advice you gave EC; how long have you been in real estate?

Me - Got back from the beach, had some triggers but nothing major. Just kept thinking "I wish H was here, it would make things MUCH more fun" (cuz he was a fun guy). Also realized that son-in-law is VERY similar in personality to H when we first got married, had some of same stories to tell. And then there were all the family pictures all over the place....oh well, at least I didn't cry! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope everyone has a great week!

<small>[ March 23, 2003, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 03/24/03 05:36 AM
Avondale What state are you in?

ME Quick update - Business did not sell - I guess the potential buyers found out about WH's reputation, so we will be liquidating as a fire sale. It won't begin to cover what is owed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But it is what it is and I am concentrating on good things and keeping a positive attitude.

Recently I have joined a Christian Business Networking Group. There are good things comming from that.

I have been sooooooooooooooo busy it's not funny but I was asked to participate in sailing races each Wed starting in April. Maybe I am starting to live again. On my list of goals was a boat, but this is even better - none of the cost and none of the upkeep!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

OS was home on Spring break with his roomate so I had guys that would roll in at 4 am & sleep till noon. We live near the beach, so this is the place to be when in college. Today in walmart some spring breakers where giggling up a storm (Wallace, not 52" !!) & when I went by them, they were giggling about plungers!! It was so funny watching them stick the plungers on the floor, listen to the noise it made and they would giggle some more <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope all is well with Y'all.

D.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/25/03 11:17 AM
Hi all! I have been sidelined with allergy problems due to the pollen. I've been going to bed early to regain my energy, but to no avail because I end up not being able to sleep because of all the coughing and congestion.

EC: If you can purchase property to live on and rent a part of it, it sound like a plan to me. If you work it right, you may be able to make some money from your property investments.

Avondale: I'm happy to hear that you had a good time at the beach. I wish I could get to a beach right about now. It's good to be around other people. As I told you before, your best bet is to try to stay busy on the weekends and out of the house.

Wallace: The weather here has been beautiful lately, but I know the clouds from your storm will travel to this area soon. Your dating appears to have leveled out lately. You have not had any bumps in the road the past week or two.

WGTT: Don't give up on the business sale too fast, can you find other suitors? I wish I could hit a beach in Florida.

Me: Outside of being sick, I am doing ok. II am still trying to decide what to do about my son's baptism.

And I'm gone.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 03/25/03 07:55 PM
Hey All,

I hope everyone had a great weekend, I did.

This week is starting out like a whirlwind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Avondale

Thanks for the compliment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I've been in real estate for 17 years and I continue to love it in good and bad times.

If I had a beach house, I'd probably be there every weekend. How far are you from it? I'm sooooo jealous. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

WGTT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was asked to participate in sailing races each Wed starting in April. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WOW, that sounds like fun, but is it a lot of work?

Wallace,

Details, Details, are you holding out on us again?

Petvet

How are you? What does your son think about the baptismal?

Hello Everyone Else

What happened to FAA?

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 03/26/03 10:10 PM
Hi guys and gals,

Hope everyone is doing great!, Looks like the thread is kinda of quite.

Thanks Relady for the advice, I guess you got a chance to practice on me and slice and diced me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I feel like Wallace now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet - Hope things are going better for you everyday is a new day and the pain eases as time goes by.

Hello to everyone else....Avondale, Wallace, WGTT, RMA, Davepr, I'm sure I missed somebody..

Me: Exw sent me a email, haven't spoke to her since late Feb after the war was over message. Today she gave me her home phone number and said I could call YD/OD direct as much as I want with no restrictions??, prior I only had a internet phone number where I had to leave messages and they called me back days later.

Her:
First of all, I've gotten rid of the 800 number. If you want to call the girls, call them at #xxxxxxxx. That's our home number.

Feel free to call the girls
anytime you like. Not a problem at all. You're their father and you can have as much interaction as you want. No restrictions whatsoever.

***

Something is happening don't know what. She kept number a secret and me at limited contact prior because her BF was around in the house and he controlled the phone. Maybe they split?? I'll approach calling with caution. As I said, she is slowly getting back to normal. I haven't been able to call them direct since early 2001.

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/27/03 03:44 AM
EC -You're right, that IS interesting about getting their home number. The first thing that went through my mind is maybe it has something to do with custody/support. Such as, to see how much you actually DO call them, once you have the number (since before you could claim you had no true way of contacting the kids). Of course I know NOTHING about child custody/support, so I may be way off base. Maybe she's just out of that bad relationship...it will be interesting to see.

WGTT - I'm in central North Carolina. I hope the networking group gives you lots of leads.

Relady - We're about 3.25 hours from the beach. My dad owns a 4br/3ba condo with several other families who we've known for a while. All the owners share it equally and they rent it 6x year to pay off utilities, etc... It's a limited partnership situation I think. I'm very fortunate even though it's not in my favorite (more quiet) beach setting, it's ocean front. I'm giving you more details knowing how you like real estate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet - Sorry you've got the allergy thing going on. What's the latest on baptism? Does your son want it for himself, or is he interested only because adults are suggesting it? Does he understand the significance (spiritual and otherwise) of baptism?

Wallace - Did you get another snow storm or something? LOL Or maybe Relady was right and something is going on...hmm.....

Me - Well, my dad moves to SC tomorrow. I never would have believed how discombobulated he's become over packing. He's a upper management kind of guy who is so disorganized right now it's funny. Can't decide whether to donate(if so, which charity), take (to SC, storage unit, my house), give to me, give to neighbors, etc... and he has to be out by tomorrow! I'm almost glad it's this crazy so I won't get down missing him.

Hello to anyone I missed; not sure if RMA or Dave are still around. I noticed that another "tough love" thread has begun. But we all know this is the original! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ March 26, 2003, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/28/03 12:34 PM
Hey Y'all,
Not sure where everyone has been...but I hope everything is going OK for all.

Not much to say here, I just couldn't let this thread go to page 2 in the forum!

Have a great weekend!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/31/03 03:40 PM
Hi All,

See what happens... I get the flu and go down for a week and we end up on page 2.? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Well guess what? I'm back... I'm not a 100%, but I'm doing a lot better.

It must of been all that snow I shoveled... dropped me like a lead balloon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale...

I wish I was at a beach house right about now. They say we will be in the 70s here all week long... so we will see.

You tried to keep it from going to page 2... and you almost succeeded. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC...

Glad to hear that you have a direct line telephone # that you can talk to your daughters on now. That should make your relationship with them a lot better.

Keep up the good work.

Petvet...

You and I seem to follow right after each other... your down with allergies and I'm down with the flu.

How's everything else going in your life?

relady...

I am signing papers to refinance my house and have my exW's name removed from it... so in that area, everything seems to be moving in the right direction.

WGTT...

Sounds like everything is moving in the right direction for you... hopefully I'll reach that point in time in the not to distant future.

Get this... my G/F didn't want to come over and take care of me because she didn't want to get the flu... can you believe it? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

We went to Church this weekend so it was all good.

Well I'm all medicated up... so if I have any spelling errors (more than I usually do)... you will know why.

I hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ March 31, 2003, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/01/03 03:21 PM
Hi Wallace,
It's been almost a week since anyone else has posted here. Do you think it's a case of spring fever or is everyone scared to post for some reason?

I hope you get your warm weather - you deserve it after all that snow!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/01/03 03:54 PM
Hi Avondale,

It kind of looks like everyone has Spring Fever... LOL.

We are getting some nice warm weather here. It was about 71 degrees here yesterday, and it's suppose to get up to about 76 degrees today. It's a welcome relief compared to what we had here a couple weeks ago.

My next mission is to still clean up my yard. I've got broken branches all over. It's going to take about a week to straighten it all out. I would of had it done already, but I had to go out and get the flu bug instead.

My G/F's birthday is this Thursday so I'm trying to get her birthday party taken care of... finish my taxes... (joke of the day), daughter's, brother's and my mother's birthday, and CS issues all coming up this month as well as my 1 year D-day on the 19th. It will be 1 year since any of us has seen or spoken to my exW.

So it's shaping up to be a busy month.

Petvet, relady, EC, WGTT, RMA, Dave, and everyone else...

Come out, Come out, wherever you are.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 04/01/03 05:26 PM
Hi All,

I've been at a church retreat since Wednesday. I thought upon returning, it would take me a week to read all the posts. Where is everybody?

The weather here has been beautiful as well, maybe it is spring fever.

Avondale

Thank you for the real estate details on your beach house. You already know me well! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I would have been wondering how close to the beach and how large. I'm glad you didn't make me angry by giving the price!

Wallace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Get this... my G/F didn't want to come over and take care of me because she didn't want to get the flu... can you believe it? LOL </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NOPE

I'll reserve comment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My G/F's birthday is this Thursday so I'm trying to get her birthday party taken care of... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is it contagious? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC

Was that advice harsh? Or was it what you already knew? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm off to see the accountant, hope she puts me in a better mood, HA HA

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/01/03 05:47 PM
Hello ALL,

Hey Wallace Mr Joy Boy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I see you're back in action! Throwing your G/F a b-day party, sounds like she'll be excited. Did you ever get your house repaired from the fire?

I think some haven't posted due to the war, as you know when major events happen it sometimes disturbs your normal routine.

Me: nothing new, spoke to YD other day, she's ready to move out on her own, the typical young lady thing however she don't have a job nor knows what to expect so I tried to talk some realistic issues with her. YD said exw told her since she will be 18 in 6 months she could move out since she will be considered an adult but is not what she would like to see happen but couldn't stop her.

I told YD I will refuse to let her out on her own and will demand she come live with me, I feel YD is not mature enough yet. YD said her and exw don't get along as time is going by and they see things differently. I told YD living with her mom is diff from if she lived with her dad, told YD it's apparent me and exw have to different ways of living life also, I told YD if she wants things to open up in her life like they should be she needs to come live with me.

In that I think she is heavily thinking about it. I would really push for YD to have some great success in life if she came, I wouldn't know how to act.

Other than that life is moving along. I'm still going to comm college and studying other things.

Take Care
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/01/03 08:51 PM
Hi Relady,

Our messages passed in crossing. The advice you gave was not harsh at all, it only reduced me to crumbs <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just joking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It was good, I just don't know if I want to live beside anyone I kinda want a house at this point in my life.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/02/03 11:38 AM
Hi all! I've finally gotten over most of my allergy sickness. I had to finally breakdown and go to the doctor. Those over the counter medications just don't work for me anymore.

EC: I'm happy to hear that your exW is giving you more unrestricted access to your daughters. The question I have is what's up with that? You are correct by not letting your OD move out on her own right now.

Relady: I'm happy to see that you are doing well.

I'll be back later. I have to go to parent-teacher conference this morning.

Later.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/02/03 04:17 PM
I'm back.

Wallace: I hope that you are feeling better. How is the GF?

Avondale: Remember this phrase, "Stay Busy". It really works.

Me: You mean to tell me that there is an Tough Love imitator out there. They have some gall. We'll things are going very well. I am a happy camper. As far as the baptism is concern, I spoke with the RE at the parish and she felt that we probably needed to wait until next year and bring him into the fold. In the meantime, let him get better acquainted with the liturgy. His teacher said that he is doing much better in school and is 25% below his grade level for next school year. Hopefully, he will be able to catch up by the end of the school year. His mom missed her deadline to have her personal affects removed from the house. When I approach her about the situation, she says that she does the have any room in her apartment to put the stuff nor can she afford storage space. Now listen to this, she said that if I was in this situation, she would not put my things out. She says that I am so unfair. Well, I am taking the things to her apartment a giving it to her. I don't know what her problem is but I think I have been quite nice. Most folks would have thrown her things out along time ago.

And I'm gone.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/02/03 05:39 PM
Hi All,

relady...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">quote: Get this... my G/F didn't want to come over and take care of me because she didn't want to get the flu... can you believe it? LOL

NOPE

I'll reserve comment.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now I really wouldn't want you to hold back here on me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I really had to make my own Campbells chicken noodle soup... all by myself. I know that's hard to believe... I'm even having a hard time buying it. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

How's the real estate market out there? They say that housing prices are beginning to drop out here. Of course the price of life is way out of hand over here.

How was your time at your retreat?

EC...

Mr.Joy Boy... LOL... I wish that was the case. I'm only at about 70%, so not much "Joy" being thrown out there yet... but I'm working on it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm still dealing with the damage that was done with the fire. The electrical still needs some more work on it to get it back up to snuff. It's taking somewhat longer than everyone anticipated but it's going in the right direction. This snow storm that we had really complicated things.

I'm glad to hear that you have been in touch with your YD. Do you think that she might move in with you, instead of moving out on her own.

Does she have any future plans for school?

If she decides to move in with you, I'm sure you will try to point her in the right direction.

Glad to hear that your doing well in your classes at Community College.

Petvet...

I'm still fighting this flu bug... I'm not over it yet, but I'm doing a lot better than I was last week.

My G/F is doing pretty good for the most part. I really didn't see that much of her this past weekend... but she has settled in for the long haul with me I believe... and she is going to wait things out and let everything happen in it's own time.

I'm glad to hear that you got your son's Baptizing situation somewhat straightened out... that's good to hear. Hope your son gets caught up in school... when you get behind like that... you really have to knuckle down to get caught up.

Have you and your exW straightened out your parenting issues?

As far as your exW's personal possesions... if it was me... I would deliver them over to her and let her deal with it. It's not your responsibility to be her keeper... that includes her personal items. That probably sounds kind of harsh, but she is going to need to take full responsibilty for her actions.

avondale...

How are you making out with the triggers? It sounds like it's been a little rough for you lately... of course I could be seeing shadows in the night. I just get the feeling that all that has happened is starting to really work on you.

Let me know if I'm off base with this one.

I hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/03/03 03:01 AM
Hi everyone,

Life has been VERY full. The business did not sell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> so it is being liquidated. I doubt that I will see any money from that to help defray all the money still owed. I was served papers today on outstanding debts that I personally guaranteed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

All in all, I am focusing on where I am going and not where I am. If negative thoughts come into my head, I just say next and watch them roll by like a frieght train.

WH is being surrounded by strong Christians and I am sensing some movement. I have no expectations and am leaving it up to God.

Avondale I will be in Hattaras in Mid June for a family reunion. Personally I have never been there and am looking forward to the trip.

To everyone I am one step away from being overwelmed that I come here and read but don't have the brain power to respond much. All of you are in my thoughts and prayers.

D.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 04/04/03 06:22 AM
Hi All,

I'm Slowly digging from under paper!

WGTT

You're in my prayers as well. Remember, God saw this day coming and has already made provisions for it. Continue to look to Him and He alone will reveal your next step. Circumstances are never what they seem. Our hope is in the unseen. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace

Ok, you asked for it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> IMHO, I wouldn't be concerned about catching the flu if I were nursing the man I love back to health. Obviously she never played doctor, nurse as a child, or she would enjoy it as an adult!! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> What if you were married, would she sleep in another room? Just a question.

After all you're making arrangements for her birthday party on your sick bed! LOL

EC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just don't know if I want to live beside anyone I kinda want a house at this point in my life. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What difference does it make who lives beside you as long as they're paying the mortgage for you?

You can also choose who lives there!

You won't be there forever, only long enough to build equity and move on, keeping that as a rental.

You've got to put on you investment hat for this strategy and take out the emotion. This will be a business. Hey, I'm being gentle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet

You can always have the things delivered to her without you getting into a confrontation. Call a delivery service or someone with a truck. You can usually find them in a local paper. Just a thought.

Avondale

Hope all is well.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/03/03 07:45 PM
Hi All,

Well it's my G/F's Birthday and I've beem moving at about a million miles an hour. There is always so much to do with so little time to do it in.

WGTT...

Having owned my own business, and with the financial mess my exW left me with. I can tell you from first hand experience... that you think it will never end.

The good news is, with a lot of prayer and perseverance you will get through all of it. Let it roll by, and then come back to it after you have seen the total damage Then, take one thing... and deal with it one at a time... and you will eventually start seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. It won't be a freight train coming at you, but it will take some time to straighten it all out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady...

You bring up some very valid points, that's why I asked.

Needless to say... I was thinking and feeling the very same way. Can you say, " A few red flags went up"?

It was definitely noted... some things just stay with you and that was one.

I thought maybe I was looking at it from a point of view that maybe I shouldn't have.

So I'm not the only one that is seeing what I'm feeling.

Thanks for the heads-up on that one.

Petvet, avondale, EC and anyone else that I missed...

Hope you are all doing well.

Have a good day today all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/03/03 10:16 PM
Hi all,
I'm gonna be brave and post an opinion here. I never thought I'd be siding with Wallace's GF but there may be another side to that nursing the flu thing. To me, it would depend on (1) what type of flu is it? A cold? Or the throw up type? (2) In what manner did she decline to help? Was it "I don't want to come over and open a can of soup" OR "I don't want to come over and touch your germy laundry" type of comment...The former is carrying it too far if you have a cold, but the latter may be understandable if you're puking all over the place. And also, to be honest, I don't think it would be THAT weird to sleep in different beds if one of you had the throw up type of flu and the other had a big presentation the next day at work. Wallace, tell us what the birthday plans and gifts are/were! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WGTT - You will love Hatteras (simply because you need a break). But you will REALLY love it because it's a wonderful place to vacation. I'm keeping up with your other threads, you seem to be doing well and have lots of support here on D/D.

EC - I think I know what you meant when you said you didn't want to live beside someone - in a duplex you're practically roommates, at least in a lot of the duplexes around here. But Relady was right, you could choose who rents there (be careful of federal laws there though).

Petvet , you doing OK? It's good your son has improved in school. Why don't you get a friend to take your exw's stuff to her? I know you're glad that April 15 is only a couple of weeks away now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hello to everyone else!

<small>[ April 03, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/03/03 11:24 PM
Hi avondale,

I'm still at work and I checked back in and saw your post so I will try to give you the latest on the Birthday party plans and such.

I'm taking her and her children, as well as my kids out to eat dinner tonight. Then we are going back to her house and have Birthday cake and ice cream and then we are going to have her open up her Birthday presents.

Nothing real fancy... but I hope she likes the cake I got her, it doesn't look like it came out very well. I bought her a new CD player for her entertainment center, and I got her a Walkman for her to use while she goes on her walks... which she does all the time.

In regards to this flu thing... I talked with her about it today. I just had to really know why she didn't come over. I wasn't throwing-up or anything like that. It was just one of those drop you to your knees kind of flu.

Well anyway... when I asked her about not coming over... she said if I really wanted her to come over, she would of. But, she felt like I didn't really want any company (which I really didn't, but she didn't know that).

She did in fact say that she really didn't want to come over, because she was afraid to get it. I asked her if we were married what would she have done... and she said she would of taken care of me then.

Seeeee how it is!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You have to marry them, to get their attention... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> j/k

So after our little talk, I feel much better about the whole thing.

I can't understand why you can't see yourself siding with my G/F. You never take my side. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
I'm only kidding... that is suppose to be a joke, and I'm just kidding with you.

I'll fill you in on what happens at her party tomorrow.

Hope your day is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/04/03 07:53 PM
Hi everyone,

Just a quick note because it's somewhat busy at work today.

Birthday went well, and the cake wasn't as bad as it looked, so all went well.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/04/03 09:29 PM
Hi all,

Wallace, glad the b'day party went well. Thanks for your faithfulness in posting. Your posts always boost my spirits <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I echo Wallace's wishes for everyone to have a great weekend!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/05/03 09:21 PM
Hi Guys and Gals,

This has been 2 crazy days just unreal!

My YD called me lastnight and asked me to confirm what my brothers number was because she just spoke to my niece at my sisters house, but I wasn't home. Then I find out she's called my brother and 2 of my sisters. I then find out she's blasting exw to them about what she's going through and then I find out YD told family she's probably coming to live with me as soon as schools out in 6-7 weeks, I was shocked! She's calling all the relatives even some she hasn't seen in 10 years.

I talked to YD this morning and things are going downhill fast between her and exw, my head is just spinning, you talk about "Shock and Awe!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
What bomb hit that camp! YD was angry about some stuff to the point of wanting to walk out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> My sister said she talked to her about it and they agreed to talk more about it another time.

I was so surprized YD called her aunts and uncle because she hasn't spoken to them in about 3-4 years.

Now this means I get to be the close Dad again and have one of my kids(17yrs old) back in my life, this will feel odd after being apart for 2 1/2 years. When YD comes to live with me exw will have to pay me CS until YD is 21 where I live, won't that be something? ain't it amazing how what goes around comes around? The same law exw used against me unjustly is turning back on her.

I've paid CS for 2 years but she'll have to pay for 3 years and a higher amount than I am per month, but what can I say, it was all her doing not mine, affairs and adultery don't pay.

This has been a wild weekend so far, It's like my single lifestyle is coming to an end rapidly, it's weird to think it will no longer just be me in the house soon.

Who would have known this would be part of the outcome when d-day occured but God, just when I thought I lost everything I get a blessing in return.

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/06/03 12:44 PM
EC - That is GREAT news, what a blessing! ! ! I know you're on Cloud 9 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> So where is your OD in all this? Have you heard from her during this time of talking to YD ? Do you think she'll move to you along with her sister? You're right, now you'll have to get used to sharing the house again. Maybe you've forgotten how long it takes teenage girls to get ready for work/school in the mornings <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ....hope you have two bathrooms, LOL.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/07/03 11:46 AM
[C [*] ODE] [/CODE]

Hi all! Needless to say I've been very busy. I hope to get back to the post on a regular basis soon.

I've been trying to enabled the icons, so if you see some weird things with the icons, please let me know.

Wallace: I'm glad you discussed the flu thing with your GF; at least you got things in the open. It sounds like things are going fairly well between you and your GF.

EC: WONDERFUL news about your YD. Do you know why things have taken a turn for the worst between your YD and her mother?

Relady, Avondale, and WGTT : I hope all is well.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/07/03 11:59 AM
Hi Petvet, good to hear from you-even if it was in your secret code language!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> [C [*] ODE] [/CODE]
I've been trying to enabled the icons, so if you see some weird things with the icons, please let me know.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, I see some weird things. Not sure what you were doing with the icons...Do you need another html lesson? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Maybe we should blame it on a rainy Monday!? Hope the rest of your week goes well.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/08/03 05:42 AM
Hi All,

EC...

It appears that the Lord is working in your life rather well.

If your YD does come live with you... when do you think it will be?

I'm sure it may be a little awkward at first when she does come live with you... but like everything... you will make the adjustments and I'm sure it will work out well for both of you.

avondale brought up a good question... what is your OD doing while all this other stuff is going on?

You must be on Cloud 9 with all that is happening... I'm pleased to hear that things are going well for you in that area... keep up the good work!

Petvet...

Good to hear from you... if your life has been anything like mine, I'm sure you have been busy.

Watch out for those icons... they will work you if you let them... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I had to laugh at your secret code that you had going there.

How is everything else going? How is your son doing?

avondale...

I could use some html lessons. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's trying to snow over here again... I wish it would just rain and call it good. We have been getting some pretty good rains and snow over the last couple of days... but they keep saying we are in a drought. We will be up to our eyeballs in water... but we will still have a drought going in the City's mind... go figure.

relady...

Are you taking advantage of the daylight saving time and going out there and getting some good sun?

Me...

I finally got my taxes done and closed on my refinance of my home... so I only have the CS issue to deal with and the lack of the exW making her CS payments now.

Total payments received from her to date = $0.00

So that is a mess all in itself.

I've had back to back dreams with the exW in them the last several nights. It has woke me out of a dead sleep each night. I can't remember what they are about... but they sure are weird.

Maybe some of it has to do with the time change.... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

G/F and I are doing well... it's like a whole new world compared to what I was involved in for almost 24 years. Hope it continues... I get real nervous when things start going real good... there is usually something that jumps out and jerks things up... but I'm putting my faith in the Lord on all of this... so whatever happens, happnes.

WGTT and everyone else...

Hope everything is going well.

Well all... have a good day and hopefully a great week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/10/03 12:24 PM
Hi Y'all
Daughter's 25th birthday was yesterday...so strange to not celebrate as a whole family. Her dad is taking her out to eat tonight but her husband doesn't want to go because he struggles so much with the idea of in-laws divorcing, affair, etc. right when their own marriage began. So I think daughter is going by herself.

I know that it's good that she maintain some sort of relationship with her dad but I admit that it also makes me somewhat upset emotionally, because I know that he will use the very fact that she interacts with him as justification to say "See, everything is OK since I left. Everyone accepts it." Which is so untrue <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

This week I've been praying that my own bitterness and rejection (yes I admit to both right now) don't get in the way of daughter's relationship with her dad. I know that's the right thing to do but it's VERY difficult.

Is anyone still involved in this thread? I didn't want it to go to page 2 so I opened up a little in sharing. Hope y'all are having a good week!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/11/03 05:39 AM
Hi avondale,

I'm still here... I've just been wrapped up in the soup.

When I went to file my taxes... my accountant came back to me and said someone has already filed under your name and social security number.

Needless to say... not only am I bitter... but I'm furiuos. I know my exW and her B/F are behind this.

I tracked down my exW and her B/F after I found this out. I know where they live and have their phone number now. I never wanted to do this... but they pushed me to the point that I'm going on the offensive and I am not taking anymore of their garbage any longer.

I called their apartment and blasted her B/F. This guy does not want to mess around with me... and he knows it. Life as they know it is going to change in the not to distant future.

I called the IRS and filed papers with them to prosecute these two clowns and they indicated that if they stayed in the same residence they would prosecute them on filing a false tax return and fraud.

I also filed papers with Child Support Enforcement to go after my exW, and start garnishment proceedings. Their little honeymoon is over.

All I wanted to do was to get away from my exW and not look back... but they keep their little antics up... so we are going to play hard ball with them.

I asked God to take this hate and thirst for vengence away and have been going to Church and praying to have the Lord remove this hatred that I have for these two people and soften my heart... I'm slowly coming out of it... very slowly. But I am going to move forward on these two until they get the idea that they should get a life and stand on their own two feet... and quit trying to ruin my life.

I've stood by and watched them detroy a whole family... I'm not going to sit on the side lines anymore... I'm going to be very pro-active in having them feel the same type of pain that my family went through.

They love money... so if I take a chunk of it away from them... they will feed on each other like sharks... that's the kind of dirt bag scum that they are.

I'm going to do everything in my power to see that these two clowns serve jail time before this is all said and done.

Enough is Enough!!!

So avondale, I understand your feelings completely. Luckily for me... my kids want nothing to do with their mother. If they did... with everything that is going on... I'm not sure at this stage how I would deal with it.

I agree with your SIL... it is very upsetting to say the least... and yes, your "H" will probably use this meeting with your daughter as a form of acceptance so why don't you, and why won't you accept it. It's his way of getting acceptance for everything that he has done.

I don't agree with it... and I never will agree with it... but that's just me.

Is it right... NO!

I know we are suppose to forgive them for what they did... but when they are continuing their sinful ways... it's hard to forgive anything or anybody, until they stop what they are doing and repent.

Thanks for allowing me to vent.

I have a tendency to get a little upset when someone is still trying to hurt my family and myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 04/11/03 05:59 AM
Hi there, I am quite new to the forum about a month or so, I have printed out the posts and am on page 100, I guess that was when May of 2002. I cannot tell you how grateful I feel to have this forum. My emotions are just all over the place. If you read my recent post you will see that I am about to see my stbxh for the first time again after walking out on me and my 8 kids. Just in the past week he has been proclaiming his love for me, telling me there will never be anyone else but me. He obviously has a weird way of showing it. Due to this causing me to spiral downward I decided that I was no longer going to call him and that if he wanted to talk to me or the kids he would have to call. Well he now calls me and leaves messages on my voicemail and ends with I love you, then sends me emails with forever and always in the signature line. He is just killing me emotionally. He has no idea the depth of hurt i have felt. I could never believe anything that comes out of his mouth again because everything he said he would never do he has done. He thinks he can come up here and see the kids and I for Easter weekend and things are going to be like he was just on a vacation, but then this is the kicker....he tells me he will be getting a uhaul to take his things back with him....of course this was temporary... I don't know it sounds like its pretty permanent to me. He is willingly moving out of state away from his family and I am suppose to look at it as he needs some time for himself. If there was another woman it would be equally hard but I would say he is trying to have his cake and eat it too, but he is choosing to be away from us.....I haven't finished all of your dialogue yet I have 574 pages to go but I would like to be part of this group....take care
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/11/03 03:37 AM
HI EVERYONE,

A short update:

The business did not sell, it will have to be liquidated. GRRRR I got served papers on 2 different debts of the company. GRRRR

WH sounded better for a few weeks but now he's back to the S.O.S. HE was ready to leave Penna to go Jacksonville early morning Tuesday. It's a 12 hour drive and he's still not there. He was supposed to be on a jobsite with OS but is loaded with excuses.

I have been invited to participate in sailing races with friends that have a NICE sailboat & I am going to do it. The first race was cancelled due to cold and wind (It got in the 50's) but we will be going out on Sat. YS is going to New Orleans for a soccer tournament so I am basically kid free. Just 17 YO D & I. That's funny EC says he won't be alone when 17YO comes & I feel like I am free!

The mentor program is going great, no, more than that - FANTASTIC My whole life is changing for the better and even though I am going through a lot of CRAP, I am handling it. At times I even feel peace, which is wierd.

Gotta go say prayers with YS.

Wallace - Unreal that they filed under your name!

Blessings to everyone

D.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/11/03 11:03 AM
Wallace - That is absolutely incredible that they filed papers under your name! I am in shock about it myself, and I can imagine some of what you must feel! (and are they THAT dumb??) You have been conscientious about the way you've handled things with exw and we know you did everything the best way possible. I'm sorry you're still being dragged through mud, but you're right, now it's their turn. Will this cost you anything additional financially?

WGTT - You deserve a sailing break. Kid free - hmmm...don't let it go to your head! Let us know how the races go.

Mommax8 - I've read some of your other posts, so I'm somewhat familiar with your situation. If I understood you correctly, you are reading EVERY post in the D/D forum archives? That's a lot of reading! Or did you mean every post in this "tough love" thread? I really do think you'd benefit from "tough love" (Plan B) action.

Petvet, Relady, EC - Hope y'all have a great weekend! We've had pouring rain all week and I'm ready to get outside in some sunshine! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 04/11/03 01:38 PM
Avondale -- i am ready all the posts in the tough love forum....and I agree Plan B is definitely what I need to do...
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/11/03 03:47 PM
Hi All,

mommax8

Welcome to the "Tough Love" thread... I am sorry your here... but it's a good place to be considering your circumstances.

I have just started reading a few of your threads to bring myself up to speed.

Concerning your get together with your "H" on Easter, and the "I love you forever" and I made a mistake syndrome... be very careful.

Do not let your guard down. From what I've read so far... if your "H" loves you as much as he is proclaiming... he will do everything in his power to make the trip back home to see you and the kids with no strings or conditions attached. He found a way to leave you and your children... he can figure a way to make his way back home if in fact he is truly sincere.

WGTT...

I'm sorry to hear that you are being served with papers concerning your business.

What does your attorney say about this? Didn't your "H" personally sign for the loans and obligations as well?

So you are going sailing? I would love to just get on a sail boat right about now and sail off into the sunset and never come back... but I have my kids and responsibilities to take care of.

It seems like the WSs just get to walk away from all the damage that they inflicted on everyone concerned and live their lives like nothing ever happened... and it's just another day. Eventually it "WILL" all catch up to them.

I'm glad to hear that you are feeling at peace with your life. I'm trying to achieve that as well... but it's so ironic... I stated just about 3 days ago on this thread that I get nervous when things start looking up and going well, because something usually comes along to jerk it all up.
Sure enough... something did.

avondale...

A belated "Happy Birthday" to your daughter. Let us know how everything goes when she meets with her father.

In regards to the bitterness... I personally was doing well in that area... as well as working on the forgiveness aspect of the whole thing. Not anymore though... I'm on a mission now and I am not going to let up on those two clowns until I have finally made them pay for all that they have done. It's the only way I'm going to be able to stop them. If they feel no consequences for their actions... they will only continue to do the type of things that they have done.

From the financial end... yes it's still costing me money. I had to pay $1,300.00 to get the house out of her name, and who knows what is going to happen with this tax return scenario. You would thing it would be cut and dry... file a bogus tax return and you pay the price from a legal stand point. But she seems to be untouchable... it's like she is teflon coated.

Petvet, relady, EC, and anyone else I may have missed...

I hope your day is going well.

Have a good weekend everybody.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 04/12/03 05:57 AM
Well it gets better....i just answer the phone at my office and guess who is on the other end of it..yes my stbxh...he told me that he was thinking about me and that he would be here for Easter and that he is getting 2 separate rooms so that we can spend time together...( hmmm are you thinking what I am thinking) he tells me he loves me he tells me that he wants to try to work it out he wants me to go ahead and stop the divorce papers and let us just be separated for a while...i have no idea what to do...I have told him that he needs to get counseling and work on himself too or there would be no chance and he wants to go to Retrovile...weekend something I had mentioned along time ago that he had no interest in....I am so confused, my heart is just so torn...I am so scared....
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/14/03 12:41 PM
Hi all! I read a couple of your posts. I will be back a little later on this morning. I have some things to say about Wallace and Mommax8 situations and Avondale too.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/15/03 05:00 AM
Hi All,

Hope everyone had a very good weekend. As usual it went by way too fast.

mommax8...

I would be very careful with your Easter plans that your "H" wants you to become involved in.

IMHO, I find it strange that he wants you to call off the divorce, but wants to stay apart from you, all at the same time. This is suppose to be coming from a man that contends that he loves you and wants to make things work out? It doesn't appear that he wants to get off on the right foot. I know if I was trying to put my marriage back together again... I would do everything in my power to start by living with my family again and not stay in different households.

How does all that he has proposed bring you, your children and your "H" together as a family?

It appears that you need to set some boundaries with him. Let him get some help and show you that he is sincere in his word. If you don't you may be setting yourself up for more heartache and heart break. I've seen this before... and it can get ugly if you do not set boundaries and allow him to show you he is for real, and not just using you for convienience.

Do it for yourself as well as your children.

avondale...

Any word on how your daughter's meeting went with her father on her B-day?

Petvet...

What's going on? Hope your life is going better than mine.

Me...

Well I'm still claeaning up broken tree limbs and downed trees from the last snow storm we had. In addition to that... I'm still filling out more legal forms due to the exW not paying her CS and because of the tax issue.

One year later since I kicked everything in full tilt... and I'm still dealing with it. I can't believe I'm still fooling around with this garbage... I'm not sure it will ever end.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ April 14, 2003, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/15/03 04:05 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: I cannot believe your exw is so vicious and low rent. How stupid can she be to just outright commit fraud? I'm not surprise that she is still causing problems for you. She is still hanging on to you in some fashion or form. She is a leech. Stay firm. I'm happy to see that everything is going well between you and your GF.

Avondale: You are justified feeling kinda bitter that your daughter still wants to have a relationship with your H even though he lefted you. She is acting like things are business as usual. Why don't you ask her why she has not shown any contempt toward her father for what he has done? Ask her whether she supports what he has done? Her answer will tell you alot about her. I find it interesting that your son in law gets the message but your daughter does not. How has your relationship been with your daughter in the past?

Mommax8: I really really feel for you. I agree with Wallace; I would set boundaries between you and your H until he shows you clearly that he wants you back and take the necessary steps needed to make a relationship work.

Me: OK, I'm going to let the cat out of the box. I have a lady friend. I'm not sure whether to call her a girl friend or not but she is a friend. I have a question for the ladies out there; what do you think about a younger guy seeing an older woman (8-10 yrs.)?

What's up EC?

Back to my taxes! Burning the midnight oil.

And I'm gone.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/15/03 12:20 PM
Hi All,
Petvet - Let me explain about my daughter - I think you got the wrong impression. She isn't really acting like "business as usual". She has told him flat out that what he did is wrong and their relationship will never be the way it used to be. She has shown him contempt - however, she also is trying to overcome those emotions that can eat away at her by loving him in a somewhat different way now. Because after all, he IS her father and they WERE very close. Of course she doesn't support what he's done - not by any means - and her father definitely knows that because she has told him those exact words. They don't talk much, they see each other rarely even though they're in the same town (it was her birthday last week, after all) and there is a definite gap in their communication. I think she's taking the "love the sinner, hate the sin" mentality when there is interaction. I think that's OK, and probably healthy for her. It did hurt me - but I got over it too. I certainly don't want her to be caught in the middle of "taking sides".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me: OK, I'm going to let the cat out of the box. I have a lady friend. I'm not sure whether to call her a girl friend or not but she is a friend. I have a question for the ladies out there; what do you think about a younger guy seeing an older woman (8-10 yrs.)?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That cat was let out of the box a while ago! The age thing might only make a difference depending on how old you both actually are. Are you 20 and she's 30? Are you 40 and she's 50? I'm sure it melts HER butter that she's got a younger guy interested in her, LOL. I wonder what her secret is.... hmmm. Does she look younger than her age? Do you look older than your age? There are so many factors to consider. And what are YOUR gut feelings about it - lovey-dovey emotions aside? Are you worried about what people might think, or do you not care? Are you dating with an eye towards marriage? Are you compatible in thoughts towards the future (kids, retirement, finances, etc..)? Her "future" will approach more rapidly than yours.

Wallace - Daughter's birthday dinner went fine - a little strained in the conversation but otherwise pleasant. She said she had a better time at my house with some of her friends over on Saturday, though! Sorry you are still cleaning up - it's in the high 70s here this week, lots of sun and yardwork is calling me every afternoon after work.

Relady - anything new with you?

EC - Have you heard from your daughters again? Is there an arrival date? I'm beginning to wonder if you have a cat in your bag too - you have been quiet lately.

Me - I am having a bunch of people over for Easter lunch after church - daughter is inviting some of her adult ESL students over too, so it should be busy and fun. I am a little rusty in the hostess mode, so I hope it goes OK.

Hope everyone else is doing well.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/16/03 05:28 AM
Hi All,


Petvet...

I have to agree with avondale... you had let the "cat out of the bag" sometime ago... LOL. I was just wondering when you were going to finally spill the beans. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'm not sure how the younger man versus an older woman works... you could ask my exW though... she is 43 and the guy she living with is 35 years old.

I guess age is a state of mind more than a state of being... but I think as time goes on it could develop into a potential problem if the two people that are involved with each other are not stable individuals to begin with. ( I am referring to my exW's situation primarily). Your going to have to take it a day at a time and see how it develops.

Are you looking at something long term with the G/F that you are seeing now?

You sly dog... LOL. I knew you were up to something. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

avondale...

I'll bet the dinner with your daughter's father was a little strained to say the least. I'm glad she enjoyed herself when she arrived at your place... it was probably a lot more comforting.

The weather over here has been just wonderful... high 70's for the most part. It's suppose to turn ugly though... about Friday with a possible rain and snow mix through the weekend... so probably no yard work for me this weekend. I've got about 6 days of clean-up to do for my yard... what a mess. It's never looked so bad... but I'll get it back into shape.

It sounds like your getting over your bitterness. Do you think it's only temporary, or do you think your on the road to recovery?

EC...

Are you busy at school... or are you going to throw a confession out there for us like Petvet and I did?

relady...

O.K., I'm officailly worried now. Either your doing really good... or things are not so well. Let us know when you get a chance.

mommax8...

I know you have things coming up on your schedule... how are you making out?

Me...

I finally finished and mailed the complaint to Child Enforcement on non-payment of my exW's failure to follow the Court Orders. So we play the wait and see what happens game at this point in time. Between that, the bogus tax return she filed, and the forgeries, it should get interesting.

My G/F can't believe all that has happened... she thinks my exW should be thrown in jail for all that she has done... so do I.

I know my exW's boyfriend was looking at a 5 year prison term for taking approximately $30,000.00 for doing something very similiar with another woman as to what we have going here right now based on a background check I did on him when I first found out about him. Some how he got past it, I'm not sure... he won't be so lucky this time though... not with me at the helm. I am going to pursue this until I see justice prevail.

Well I hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 04/15/03 08:41 PM
Hi all,

I have been so busy and want to write individually to all of you but don't have the time at this second so I will sit down later and do that, just wanted to let you all know that I am very nervous about this coming weekend. stbxh is wanting to make a go at reconciliation, told me that he needs to do his part now and wants to do it right this time. I am very nervous and honestly feel like I will believe it when I see it. He told me he would like to go to retroville weekend, which floored me. He sent me an email today with a family picture and said thinking about me and sent me a love song. I don't know what to really think because he still is getting a uhaul and leaving me again.. I don't think I will be able to emotionally handle that, I am beginning to resent him more and more each day and I am really afraid that I am going to hate him and there will be no hope.

Well I gotta go, hard to write at work.... that you all for your support, hope everyone is having a good day and take care
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 04/15/03 10:53 PM
Hey All,

I can finally come up for air. It took me a few weeks to get my tax information together and their in the mail as we speak. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Then I forgot that my quarterlies were due today as well, so another check goes in the mail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I know, you men thought I was gone for good, so you spilled your guts without any wrath from me. LOL But not to despair, I'm here with my 'two cents' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace,

I'm sorry for the way your X is acting, but not surprised. However, your reaction surprises me though:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> he won't be so lucky this time though... not with me at the helm. I am going to pursue this until I see justice prevail. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why, now that you're at peace and everything is going great for you, would you want to spend time thinking about or even indulging in 'revenge'?

By all means pursue the legal issues, I'm not talking about that because it is necessary. I'm referring to the 'all out war' you're planning. What a waste of time and energy. Their both scum, and they'll end up on the skids in due time.

Last week in my prayer time I asked the Lord to reveal and remove any unforgiveness in my heart. Now when I asked that question, I felt that I had forgiven my 'H'. You know me, have to keep it together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Well a few days later I received a letter from the Post office saying my mail had been forwarded. After much ranting and raving(it was Sunday, and Closed)and revenge planning, on Monday I showed up at the Post Office and found out my 'H' had transferred mail and instead of checking individual, he checked family so all the mail was forwarded! Honest mistake or on purpose? Who is to know? After I threatened the supervisor and the post woman, they assured me that my mail would not be forwarded and that they would make double sure. Believe me, they didn't want to see me again.

The point is, I had not totally forgiven him, which the Lord definitely showed me or I would have calmly solved the problem and not spend my weekend waiting for the post office to open!

Only God knows what is deep in the heart of man and if we but ask, He'll show it to us.

Ok, I'll be back later for Petvet!!

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/16/03 04:30 AM
Hi Gang! Petvet,Wallace,Avondale,Relady,WGTT,Davepr,Momma8,RMA,and anyone I missed.

Looks like everyone is coming back out of there hole <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I guess since Wallace is out and saw his shadow it's going to be a long winter <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> that weasel...

I see the ladies are back after dipping in the downboy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> it must be powerful!

Me:

Ok, let me set the record straight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ...I don't have anybody I'm seeing or dating and even cut ties with some female business associates. I really am focusing on me and trying to accomplish as much as I can while single and not be emotionally attached or distracted, however everbody has there different circumstances of where they are in life that don't have to take the route I'm going.

I'm glad to see everyone moving along. My YD is bouncing back and forth of what she wants to do, however I begun my count down when I'm done with CS and I have about 390 days left....other than that things are going pretty good. I don't have the pain like I use to however sometimes I look back at the journey and think about how far I've come and realize there's more life ahead and many good days.

Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/16/03 11:47 AM
Hi all! I'm happy to be back on a regular basis since tax season is over.

Avondale: Thanks for setting the record straight about your daughter.

Wallace: I somewhat agree with Relady concerning your Exw, but you have to take care of business. You cannot let your exw continue to victimize you. If you don't stop it, she will continue to do it.

Relady: I know for a fact that the PO folks don't want to tangle with you. You are all business and don't accept any non sense from anyone.

EC: Taking care of yourself is a good thing.

Mommax8: It's your call, but you may be willing to meet H half way to see what he does. Of course, I would not drop my case until I know for sure his intentions.

Me: I would not get involve with anyone of the opposite sex unless I could view them in my future. I'm not a player. I take my relationships seriously. She is attractive and probably looks low 40's rather than 49. I'll be 40 next week. The age thing bothers her sometimes because her past relationships has been with men ten years or older. She has a 10 year old daughter. She is not looking to be taken care of but wants someone to complement her. She is doing well financially as far as I can tell. She is a widow. My grey hair makes me look more mature than my age, but I keep physically fit year round. I don't carry a middle age gut or anything. She does not care about being seen in public with me; she is more concern about me. She may meet my parents next week. I know my mom will pick up on the age real quick. She asked me recently why I chose her raher than a younger woman and I said why not you? I am looking for content and the big picture rather than exterior. She says that I am more mature than my age. I have always gotten along well with older woman. There is nothing more attractive than a older woman who takes care of herself and is confident with what she wants in life. That's my story. OK! Let me have it. The bulletproof vest is on.

And I'm gone.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/16/03 12:23 PM
Relady - good to hear from you!

EC - You're right, everyone has different circumstances and all of our routes are different. We just support each other on our different roads.

Petvet - well, you asked for it! Actually, you can put your bulletproof vest away. I don't have anything tough to say <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You sound as if you've thought things through pretty well, although there may be hesitancy on her part - which is something you need to consider (will it be an ongoing problem?). However, one thing did make me laugh (and I'm sure it wasn't intended) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The age thing bothers her sometimes because her past relationships has been with men ten years or older </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Aren't relationships with guys 10 years old considered improper? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Sorry, just couldn't let that wording error go by. I figured you probably meant 10 years older than she was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Have you thought about what to say (if anything) to your parents? Hmmm...and next week is the big 40 for ya, huh?

Mx8 - Have you decided on an Easter plan yet? Last I heard you were bouncing around several ideas. Let us know how things are progressing!

<small>[ April 16, 2003, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 04/16/03 07:58 PM
I am so confused, because my heart is being torn in 2 directions one to not get hurt again and the other to enjoy this time as a family. I am very worried that once he leaves again I will be back at ground zero. Each day he is gone I am beginning to resent him more and more and I am almost afraid of falling out of love with him because of this...does that make sense. I am starting to really get a handle on my emotions, and I don't know if it has to do with the fact that he now wants me and I don't feel the rejection, but then I say if he really wants me he would come back so I don't know what to do. He got the kids and I our own hotel room well his dad did and then him and his dad will stay in the other room (of course he is expecting us all to stay together, which makes me nervous as well..anyway we are suppose to spend Friday and Saturday together and then go to church Sunday morning then he takes off again and spends the summer with his dad camping and boating on the lake and I stay home to raise our 8 kids by myself with no emotional or financial support...see what I mean about resentment building...I just don't get what he is thinking because I am going through h**l and even though he says he misses me and the kids and he is going through h**l, he doesn't have to work, pay bills, worry about where the next meal is coming from...UGH!!! Anyway I am suppose to have the opportunity to talk with him and tell him all this, but shouldn't he already know??? Any ideas
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/16/03 10:22 PM
Hi all,

mommax8...

I can understand your apprehension... for one reason... what your "H" is saying and actually doing seems to be two different things.

How can he want to put his "M" back together by spending the weekend with you and the kids and then taking off for the summer?

In my estimation it just doesn't add up.

IMHO, your setting yourself up and your children for more heartache and heartbreak.

What has he really shown you and done here lately to make you think he really wants to put the "M" back together.

Be careful and take care of yourself and your children and don't read anything more into it than you already are seeing, until he is ready to put more of an effort into his "M".

EC...

Glad to hear that things are working in the positive mode for you. It gives me something to consider and look forward to. I would love to reach that plain... I'm not sure when I'm going to... but I'll just keep pluging away at it.

relady...

It's good to hear from you. I wasn't sure if you fell of the face of the earth or not.

Just to try to put my situation into perspective... I'm not trying to extract revenge from my exW and her b/f. What I "AM" trying to do... is stop them from continuing their ongoing antics once and for all.

I have filled out all the affidavits and filed all the necessary papers hopefully to either have them locked up for what they have done, or at minimum... have the legal system put a big enough scare into them to get them to stop what they are doing and go live their lives out without trying to ruin my life or my children's lives.

If that doesn't get it... I have every intention of filing suit against both of them to recover damages as setforth and when I don't collect... file an unsatisfied judgement against them... and let that sit on their credit record for awhile.

Just maybe... that might slow them down just a tad.

I just want her to cut all strings and ties from me and have her go her merry way... nothing more.. nothing less.

I hope that puts some clarification as to what my intentions are.

Make no mistake about it though... I am very upset about this latest incident... and it's going to take me awhile to get over it. In fact, I'm going to Church tonight and continue to try to learn to forgive. It's not easy... I'm working on it and I haven't thrown in the towel.

With the Lord's help, I'll get past it... it's just going to take some time. I was doing real good... and then this happened. I have been through worse (my marriage for one). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet...

I'm surprised avondale let you get off the hook like that so easy. It must be the time of the year (Spring time)... everything comes alive in the Spring... or so they say.

avondale...

I'm waiting to see what you have to say to Petvet now that he has his vest on. Are you going to let him off easy too! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope your day goes well everyone.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/16/03 10:27 PM
Mommax8 (mx8)
I'm confused. How does your husband manage to NOT work all summer and NOT support his family? Has he definitely said that? And are you saying that his own father knows, and may be encouraging it (by allowing your H to go on the trip with him)? Something is very wrong with this picture. At the very least, your H is doing something called "cake eating". It used to be a more prominent phrase heard here on MB - having his cake (you & family) and eating it too (his freedom from responsibility). And you and his father are enabling that. It's only natural that resentment would creep in your heart. If he misses you, as he says, then tell him to prove it by sticking around, or at least supporting you guys. You're right - you two will have to have a serious talk this weekend, and you will need for him to put his money where his mouth is. And also you will need to guard your heart and be strong - because when you're together, as a family, it will get real cozy and you'll wish it would always be like that. But remember, if he's not going to pull his weight of responsibility (financially, emotionally, and other ways like being sober) then you do need to have another plan - and since you just filed for D, that may be your other plan. If you go on government assistance (you may already be getting it) would that help you at all financially?

Bottom line - his actions speak what is in his heart at this point. His words may be saying "I miss you and I'm going through h**l" but his actions are NOT in line with that. He's using you, whether he means to or not. Have you read the "Love Must Be Tough" book by James Dobson? If not, you need to get it ASAP from amazon.com. It will really help you be strong through this. Focus on having this Easter be a good memory for your kids, because I think it may be a time of truth and reckoning for your husband.

<small>[ April 16, 2003, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/17/03 02:24 AM
Avondale,

Thanks!

D.

<small>[ April 17, 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/18/03 12:20 PM
Hey y'all
Happy Friday, hope everyone has an extra day off work this weekend! We're having a major outreach to unchurched ppl at our church Sunday and I get to set up danish and coffee for several hundred ppl very early that morning <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have posted a question elsewhere on the D/D board and if anyone here has time to respond, I'd appreciate it. Here's the link:
Question of the Day

Thanks!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/18/03 03:10 PM
Hi all,

Tomorrow will mark the one year date that my exW walked out of our home, and out of our marriage.

I came to this thread and was welcomed by Petvet, RMA, and Davepr.

I was a real mess then... and I still am a mess now... just not as bad.

If not for them, avondale, EC, relady, WGTT, Free Indeed, and many many others on this board... I'm not sure I would of been able to get as far as I have over the past year.

It has now come to a point... where it's time for me to move on and finish the last remaining things left in my failed marriage and go about continuing making positive changes in my life.

It is at this point that I am probably going to follow in the footsteps of RMA and Davepr... check in from time to time and see how everyone is doing and post when I feel I can add some useful advice.

To all of you... thank you for being here... you are all truly a Godsend.



Petvet...

Good luck with your new G/F. I am so happy for you that you were able to find someone in which to share your feelings, desires, hopes and dreams. Good for you my friend... you deserve that kind of companionship.

avondale...

Through all that you have endured to this point you are in fact a shining star that the Lord will truly bless.

My prayers are with you. Good luck with your neice's wedding no matter what you decide to do... and continue the path you have let the Lord allow you to follow.

EC...

Good luck with school and the Real Estate courses. You have got your priorities straight and I'm sure you will be successful in all that you undertake. I hope your YD comes to live with you... I know how much that means to you.

Blessing to you always.

relady...

Your situation as far as the no contact with your spouse mirrors mine in so many ways and you have stood tall with the Armour of God... and your standing tall. You are an inspiration and my prayers are with you always.

keep up the good work.

WGTT...

Keep fighting the fight with all that you have going on... and never give up.

May the Lord stand by your side, and lead you to the path he wishes you to take.

mommax8...

As I have stated... be careful. Guard your emotions and protect your children as well during this time this weekend.

I pray that everything works in the positive direction for you this weekend.

Good luck everyone in all that you undertake.

Hope you all have a wonderful Easter.

As always...

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/18/03 03:58 PM
Hi all:

Wallace: I'm sad to hear you go. You have offered so many good advice to me and many others, but I know you have to do what you have to do. I wish you well friend, and goo luck with your family and G/F. Question: Is putting this thread behind you part of the recovery process of getting away from the bad memories of your your marriage?

Mommax8: I think "Tough Love" is in order. The book that Avondale referenced is a good resource. Remember to keep your boundaries.

Avondale, EC, Relady: What are we going to do woithout Wallace? Do you think this thread is continuing to benefit folks?

Have a wonderful Easter everyone!

Thanks.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/18/03 08:57 PM
Wallace, I wish you wouldn't leave. You are such a solid source of wisdom! I also wonder, like Petvet, if leaving this thread (or the board) is necessary to move on...

Petvet ,now that you have a g/f, will you be posting less? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> If Wallace leaves, and you post less, there won't be much going on here and I'll feel abandoned. The people on this thread are the ones I really trust here at MB.

Relady , where are you???????
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/18/03 10:36 PM
Hi again Petvet and avondale,

I'm getting ready to leave work here in a about a half hour and I thought I would just drop by before I left and answer your questions.

The main reason why I feel that I should probably bid everyone goodbye... is I feel right at the moment I really don't have anything constructive to offer anyone at this point in time.

After what recently happened... I am very upset, and I probably wouldn't be able to help anyone at this particular time.

So I felt it best to drop off, so I wouldn't let my unpleasantness spill onto one of the best threads on these boards. It doesn't have anything to do with my recovery. I still have a long way to go in that area.

I'm still a mess, and being in this state doesn't really do anyone here really any good.

Please don't shut this thread down... as it still has a lot to offer for all concerned.

IMHO, it's still the best thread on the boards.

Once I can get my act together... I want to be able to come back and be able to offer some sound advice to all that are going through the troubles as they present themselves.

You are all the best around.

Have a very "Happy Easter".

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/18/03 11:08 PM
Wallace ,
I can't believe what I'm reading <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The main reason why I feel that I should probably bid everyone goodbye... is I feel right at the moment I really don't have anything constructive to offer anyone at this point in time. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HELLO ?!?!?!? You almost ALWAYS have constructive things to say! (I only say "almost" because you had momentary lapses when your g/f was up for discussion.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> After what recently happened... I am very upset, and I probably wouldn't be able to help anyone at this particular time
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, then what about us supporting you? Are you going to dis us just because you're going through a rough time? Something isn't right about that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm still a mess, and being in this state doesn't really do anyone here really any good. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are ALL still messes! Has something additional happened today that's got you feeling this way?

Wallace, you're a faithful poster! You are VERY level-headed and to be honest, lately there hasn't been a lot of that around the entire forum. Don't feel like you have to say something EVERY day - maybe that was overwhelming to you. But don't just drop off the earth like you alluded to either! We want you to stick around!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/19/03 12:13 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: I agree 125% with what Avondale had to say. You always have something good to say and don't think that you have to post everyday. After you made your announcement, I was going to talk to Avondale, Relady, EC, and some others about whether they thought it would be a good idea to shut this thread down. Don't get me wrong, I want to stay here and try to help people. I think it's the least I can do to support those who are going through a living hell in their lives. Granted for a while there, I was very busy and could not post as regularly as I wanted, but I am back. I feel kinda odd thinking about leaving the thread just because my situation looks better. There are others out whose situation is not good, and we have others like Avondale,Relady, Mommax8 (new kid on the block) who have unfinished business. Don't get me wrong, I miss RMA's and Dave's comments and wish they were more active, but if there is a need for this thread, I would like to keep it open. You appear to be MAD as hell at your exw. Please don't let your anger get the best of you. As I told you earlier, do what you need to do to get that beast out of your life. Just be glad that you are not married to her anymore, and that she is someone else's problem.

Avondale: I'm not going anywhere. Do you think G/F is a good way to describe my buddy? Granted things are on fire (don't laugh Wallace!).

HELP! Can someone give me a quick lesson in using those darn icons? I feel so dumb not being able to figure them out. Are there instructions somewhere?

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 04/19/03 06:07 PM
Hey All,

Wallace

What in the world are you thinking? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

It's times like these that we should be here for each other. Believe me, you need a good sounding board and we're it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You can't allow your X to continue to put you on the skids. You're giving her way too much power.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your situation as far as the no contact with your spouse mirrors mine in so many ways </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sooooo, what happens when I need your input? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Then again, are you trying to throw us off the scent and get married in secret like RMA??

Or are you saying your 'stay strong' byline was for us and not you?? I think not!

Petvet

All you really have to do is click on the icons! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now for you, It sounds as though your gf has more of the problem with age. Tell her to relax, in fact, if there is ever another in my life, he will definitely be younger. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think around the age of 50, women really start to have major confidence in themselves, hence the younger man. Now the question is, can you handle the attention??

Avondale

I tried to get back to you on your question on the other thread, but I got really busy. Have you answered your H yet.

Since you have also had a relationship with these same people for 24+ years, I see no reason why you shouldn't go whether your H goes or not.

Just make sure you're very polite and look good, smell good and have fun. You don't have to answer any questions only to say you're not together and leave it at that!

Go and make him eat his heart out! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/21/03 03:08 PM
Good Morning All,

I'm still here.

I hope everyone had a very nice Easter Sunday.

I had a nice Easter cookout with all my kids at the house in spite of all the downed trees and branches in the backyard.

After reading your posts... I came to the conclusion that I'm probably making too harsh of a move and it is probably best that I stay and see if I can't in fact do any good... for myself as well as for others.

I am mad as hell at my exW over this latest incident make no mistake about that. Will it ever end? I don't see it happening... at least not in the near future.

Just for the record... there is talk of marriage between myself and my G/f. if we do though... it won't be in secret and probably not until sometime next year.

I have to clear this mess up that I have before me, before I make any other far reaching moves.

I hope everyone has a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/22/03 02:37 PM
Wallace ,
I'm sooooo glad you decided to stay around. But then you drop the bombshell (actually it isn't really a bombshell but that word just seemed appropriate, LOL)
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just for the record... there is talk of marriage between myself and my G/f. if we do though... it won't be in secret and probably not until sometime next year.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel compelled to remind you of statements you made only 6 weeks ago:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I went ahead and called my "lady friend" yesterday. I thought it was something that needed to be done... be it good bad or indifferent.

After a very long telephone conversation... she accepted the fact that I'm not going to make any knee jerk moves... and I am going to take things at my own pace. She is willing to just date, and not expect anything more than that for the time being. She indicated that she would not want to pressure me into M, and she would wait, when I know that I am ready to make such a commitment.

So at the moment... everything is moving at the pace that I have setforth... slow... very very slow. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then there is one made more recently </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No expectations of M at the moment... and she said she would wait for me for however long it takes. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't you just love the "quote" feature here?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hope I haven't scared you away <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> What happened to that "Down Boy" spray?

Welcome back big bro! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You guys can't leave until the rest of us have our stories completed!

Petvet - All you have to do is click (using your left side mouse button) on the "instant graemlins" in the lower left corner of the screen and the smiley of your choosing will appear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Maybe you are typing on a mac computer???

Relady - I have decided (at least, as of today) that I will go to wedding but then leave, not staying for reception (I don't think I am that strong right now). Your response did bring a smile to my face, though
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just make sure you're very polite and look good, smell good and have fun. You don't have to answer any questions only to say you're not together and leave it at that!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When I read that I had just come in from mowing the grass and I sure did stink. I wondered where that "smell good" comment came from, LOL

Mx8 - are you still here? How did it go, seeing your H over Easter?

<small>[ April 22, 2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/22/03 04:11 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

I do love how well those quotes work... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Everything was going so good concerning the quotes that I made until this weekend.

My G/F kicked in about marriage again... out
of the blue she made this statement.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I think you would be perfectly happy just dating me for the rest of your life, and not ever consider changing a thing concerning our relationship.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well... I was about floored when I heard that... I was at a total loss for words. I didn't know what to say... so I blurped out, "that's not exactly a true statement".

Here I thought we had come to an understanding... at least for the time being... and now I find myself right back in the soup again.

I called her this morning to see if she has got herself out of what I'm going to call her "dark mood".

It hasn't happened... she is still in a not so hot mood. So I told her to give me a call this afternoon and we would go out shopping tonight. I'll see if I can't cheer her up a little.

My Mom's Birthday is today, my YD's birthday is Friday, my son's car electrical system burned up and his car is now junk.

Bought him another car last night... which he agreed to pay me back and make payments to me.

It's been a real doozy of a month so far... so much going on with so little time.

I think I need a nice long vacation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

The fun just keeps on coming... LOL


Petvet...

When you get ready to post... in the lower bottom left hand corner there is two boxes there under options. Check to see if the "disable Graemlins in this post" box has a check mark in it. If it does... click on it and uncheck it. If it is already unchecked... you should be able to click on the icons at will and add them to your post.

Also check to see just above that... that the UBB Code is enabled. It show show up as a red letter print if it in fact is. If it isn't click on it, and hopefully that should get you where you need to be.

relady, EC, momax8... and everyone else...

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay strong!

Wallace
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 04/22/03 09:22 PM
Well Friday, the kids and I were sitting in the hotel parking lot at 2:00pm as that was the time they were to arrive, we waited and waited then I get a call on my cell that he would not be able to leave because his dad was sick. He knew about this at 10:30am and just then called me as the kids and I were waiting. Needless to say their hearts and mine as well were crushed but we made the best of it and waited until the next day to see him.. He arrived the next day at 2:30pm and like I expected he was just like he was when he left totally drugged out and could barely keep his head up. We took the kids swimming and he just kind of sat there, he kept asking me why I was looking at him so strange, well he has gained nearly 30lbs since I had seen him last and eyes were very glazed. We then got to the room and fed the kids dinner, and got them ready for bed, he then just passed out about 7:30pm. Well he did what I expected he hugged me and kissed me when he saw me but that was about it, he told me how much he missed me and that he can't live without me and that we will be together...Anyway nothing happened so that was a saving grace of course he was catatonic so obviously the Lord was looking out for me. The kids even said "Mom is dad high?" What do you say to that....I just told them that he was very tired from the trip that was all. My oldest daughter promptly reminded me that it was because of his medication....you can't fool them no matter how hard you try....Well the next day was Easter and we were suppose to go to church, my mother had bought all of them new outfits and shoes and was crushed when we didn't show, I feel so badly for that we then she made sure she was going to get even and let me know exactly what she thought of me....well that night the kids said goodbye to their father and he and I and my husbands father went to dinner to discuss the future arrangements ect....my father went crazy and wrote down the license plate of the car and said if I was not home in 2 hours he was calling the police, which was totally unwarranted...he was screaming he has control now .........so I feel totally out of control and feel as though I have no control of anything... I was very distraught....my kids told me they loved me and not to worry that it was ok...I hated to leave but they wanted me to talk to their dad, they somehow thought I could convince him to stay....Anyway I went that night with them and when we began talking I just fell apart, I told him everything that the kids and I have gone through since he left and the hurt and pain and that if he loved me he would never have done this too us...and of course his reply is that he does love us he just couldn't live in the same house with my parent's anymore, even though it was his idea. He chose his own peace of mind over his family and that is what is killing me, that me and the kids aren't worth fighting for that he doesn't love me enough to not let me go....I can't even begin to describe the pain, I know you all understand what I am talking about. WELL THEN I CRUMBLE INTO HIS ARMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!He wouldn't let me go home he got us a hotel room and just like old times the only thing that was never screwed up was our sex life and I made a huge mistake.....Everyone told me what was going to happen and I thought I could be strong and there I was begging and pleading again to please not leave and he drove off without a look back, I am back to ground zero and feel so cheap.....my kids are acting out today...my son is to be sent to juvenile hall tomorrow because of his anger...I have been hurt all over again. I have to keep to plan b I can't do this again. He tells me he wants us together and that if we get counseling we can be together again that if I do what I need to....not him..he says I need to wait for him until he gets it together and he will come and see me every 2 weeks (just to have sex) and then go back again.....he doesn't care about the finances or day to day living and raising the children.....I have to let go of him I can't do this anymore......I have to be strong but it hurts too bad....I had 24hours without the pain, and now its back again and I feel like he betrayed me all over again.....OH please help me to be strong.....
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/22/03 10:25 PM
Hi Mommax8,

I just finished reading both your posts.

avondale has given you some great advice on the one thread.

Being a guy... I unfortunately saw this one coming. That's why I tried to tell you to protect yourself and your children. What you described in your post is almost exactly what I felt was going to happen.

I'm sorry that you had to go through this, and I wish the outcome had been better for both you and your children.

You need to get you and your children into see a counselor. If your "H" wants to be a part of it... then so much the better.

Right now you are enabling him. If he is an addict of any sort... you must stop enabling him and start putting your foot down and taking control of your life as well as your childrens... and remove yourselves from his actions until he is ready to seek the help that he needs.

IMHO, it appears that you are very Co-dependent at this point which is not good for either of you. The two don't mix very well (an addict and a Co-dependent).

Going to Al-Anon or a Narc-Anon meeting would be a great step to take in order for you to realize the steps that you are probably going to have to take in order for you to deal with what you have going on.

I would definitely nix the idea of seeing him every two weeks until he is ready to get the help he needs.

You may need to go into a Plan B if things don't start turning themselves around. He is not going to seek any help until he feels that he is going to do a crash and burn.

Sometimes a person such as this has to lose it all before they turn themselves around.

You may not know it... but you just took a step possibly in the right direction. You have realized that you cannot continue like this.. so you know must take the proper steps to allieviate this situation.

Don't fall for this tactic again... unless you want to relive the pain over and over and over again.

For you and your children's sake go and seek the help that you and your children need.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 04/23/03 04:43 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone is having a wonderful day.

Avondale

Thank you for keeping Wallace on the straight and narrow when I'm not here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But we really need to let him in on the 'trick questions' women ask, I think he has forgotten. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wallace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you would be perfectly happy just dating me for the rest of your life, and not ever consider changing a thing concerning our relationship.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That was a statement that should not require an answer or discussion. It's like we're both standing in the mirror and I say, "This dress makes me look fat" and I dare you to agree. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Get the picture? However, you have learned one remedy well, GO SHOPPING, that always cheers a girl up.

God Bless,
relady

<small>[ April 23, 2003, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/23/03 06:38 PM
Hi Everyone,

Hope everyone is doing ok?

Nothing new happening here or I should say worth posting.

Mommax8 - I'm sorry to see all that happen to you. A plan b is not a bad idea, however as Wallace said, work on you, you will make it through this, its not forever.

Wallace - I'm glad you decided to stay, don't let what your exw do shut you down in your progression out of the mess. You will see odd and eratic behavior..Don't be to surprized

Me: Eventhough I declared no more war with exw, she started one this week, however its over, what an emotional drain.

I have an understanding that you cannot mix Clay and iron together to become one

Also I have an understanding that you cannot yoke an OX and donkey together, the OX will strive to work and get the job done, while the donkey will kick and buck the whole time just like a typical ([censored]\donkey)

You make sure you know who you're hooked up with or trying to mold with. Clay and iron under the fire of life with seperate.

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/23/03 11:24 PM
Mommax8 - I know you have a number of different threads going in the D/D forum, but I wanted to give you some advice here, where it's NOT so visible to all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You get a lot of suggestions from a lot of different people when you start a thread. We all come from different places, not geographically, but in our inner strength, faith, our family background, support systems, and the very circumstances that surround our being here in the first place. As you read what others have written in all the different threads, you will be able to tell if some people "gel" with you - that is, you have similarities that bond you together and you can trust what they say to be objective. I personally looked for those who had been here much longer than myself, whose circumstances or outlook were similar to my own, and who are a little bit further down the road to recovery.

I've noticed that there are some people who are brand new to MB who are giving out advice in almost every thread, that to be honest, I would not listen to. Guard yourself as to who you listen to and who you "bond" with. Your circumstances are very unique with your husband having left plus your awesome responsibility with the kids. And you are always welcome here in this thread, don't forget that!

EC - great to hear from you! So by "clay" and "iron" I suppose you mean you're the clay and she's the iron? And "ox" and "donkey" you're the Ox and she's the donkey? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Hope your difficulties don't involve your daughter(s) coming to stay with you.
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 04/24/03 01:30 AM
Hello, all!

Good golly - how does a person get to take a vacation around this place, one may ask?!?!? Just skimmed the many posts here - relady and avondale, God bless you both! You 2 and EC are desperately needed to keep the two wild bucks in their pens!

Petvet, glad you are having fun. Tread slowly, my friend. All fires can get too hot to handle. Keep all things in perspective while you are venture forward into a new life. Have fun, but be slow and deliberate.

Wallace, I am going to have to get Sheryl, New Beginnings, among other monikers, here to knock you in the head with a 2 x4 followed by a pie in the face with her famous salmon whip!!! Look, you are swimming in dangerous waters. A relationship worth having is one that has been time-tested and refined. You can't just jump from the frying pan into the skillet. An initial relationship could be a salve for all that ails you or it could be more - much more. You just can't tell yet. You have to spend sufficient time together to know. Don't let your emotions run your life. If you do, you show that you are as impetuous and impulsive as the WS! Don't even go there about marriage with her. You aren't ready. She must be willing to wait for you - until the time you are ready, even if that takes a few years.

Ladies, ya'll are doing such a super job here. Then, EC always add his voice of reason and sanity. EC, knock these boys in the head once or twice, OK?

I miss you guys! You are all so special to me. God bless and keep each of you!
Love to all, RMA
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/24/03 11:00 AM
Hi all! Today's the BIG 40. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Thanks guys for the quick icon

Relady: Thanks for making me feel like a total mindless geek. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> My buddy does seem to have alot of confidence. Do you think that from a women's viewpoint at that age, dating a younger man makes her feel reenergized?

Wallace: Marriage????? Did I here the swan song? DON'T EVEN GO THERE! Just sit back and enjoy the view. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I'm happy you are staying friend.

Mommax8: I would advise you to sit back and think about what you are doing. Every miss step you make sets you back to ground zero. You have to be strong for yourself your kids. This is no game. Things are not the same as they were. You must understand that. If you want to continue being played, that's your business, but if you want to take steps to better handle this mess; you have to make sound decisions. I would agree with Avondale when she said that you have to be careful where you receive your advice because the wrong advice is like no advice at all. YOU MUST BE CAREFUL AND GET OFF OF THE ROLLORCOASTER. THINK WITH YOUR HEAD AND NOT WITH YOUR HORMONES AND HEART.The WS prey on those who think with anything other than their heads.

RMA: Glad you are back. Hoiw is married life.

Avondale: How are you and what's your status now?

Me: I am enjoying things. Buddy is pushing all the right buttons, but I am not in any hurry. I am on the beach and is soaking all this stuff in. We will see how things look this time next year. I am still waiting for the roof to fall in. I am staying humble. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

And I'm gone.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/24/03 12:13 PM
Petvet - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> HAPPY BIRTHDAY ! ! ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I hope this year is full of blessings for you! Looks like you learned how to do the icons, too. But I did want to comment on something you said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am still waiting for the roof to fall in. I am staying humble. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like RMA said, "keep things in perspective; have fun but venture slowly". I want to add that you don't need to take on a fatalistic mentality either (don't expect the worst). The roof already fell in with your D...you're re-roofing now, and most shingles come with 25-35 year guarantees <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

RMA - it is GREAT to hear from you! How are things at your house, are you still in the "honeymoon phase"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wallace, Relady, DavePR, EC, Mx8, (and anyone else I missed like TMCM) - hope y'all have a great day!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 04/24/03 04:17 PM
Hi All,

Having a great day I hope.

Petvet

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> HAPPY BIRTHDAY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm not sure how I made you feel like a total geek, however; I'm sure you'll tell me. Let's just say, I think a women at 50 has more energy sexually than a man of 50. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I hope your roof is 'concrete tile' because a 'wood shake' burns quicker. LOL

RMA

Great to hear from you.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You 2 and EC are desperately needed to keep the two wild bucks in their pens!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We're trying, but they keep digging their way out,LOL

How is everything with you? Still on your honeymoon of course. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace

How did your shopping trip go? Was a pacifier, er I mean a ring involved?

Avondale

What are we going to do with those two? Should we lock them in their rooms? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

mommax8

Three words for you, 'Protect Your Heart'. It doesn't matter what others say, God has the last word. Learn more about Him.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/24/03 06:08 PM
Hi All,

"HAPPY BIRTHDAY Petvet"

Your just a young buck... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> After my birthday this year... I started counting backwards... so I'm only 38 now. hehehe.

No wonder your G/F.. err.. ummm... I mean your buddy likes you so much. Just remember to take it slow and easy... don't let that roof fall in on you like mine is trying to do.

I think relady may have something here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think a women at 50 has more energy sexually than a man of 50. [Wink] </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There may be a lot of truth to that statement...

Glad to see you got the icon magic down.

EC...

Glad to hear that you made it through another battle with your exW and had a quick resolve to it.

I decided that I'm not going to let my exW get to me anymore. When things come up... I'm just going to take it as it comes and deal with it, and not let her upset me anymore.

I like the Clay and iron mix as well as the Ox and the donkey scenario... so true... so true.

relady...

You are good!!! You are good!!!

The question that my G/F did pose to me, didn't deserve an answer... because I knew it was a question that was asked to trip me up. That's why I only said what I said.

I did take her shopping...and guess where we ended up... just take a guess... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Do you have a crystal ball over there?

Needless to say she is not in a bad mood anymore... and no I haven't paid for anything "YET".

For the record... I want you to know... that I do indeed love being single again, so I am not in a hurry to go and do anything too stupid just yet. If I do... it won't happen until sometime next year. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

At least that's what I have planned... if I do anything at all.

RMA...

Hi RMA.. it's good to hear from you.

I agree with you 100% in everything that you stated. I'm not the one trying to kick everything into gear. I like everything just the way it is.

I believe that any relationnship needs to be time tested. I would like to test mine for about 5 years... but I don't think my G/F will want to work within that time frame.

She's a keeper, and in certain areas she just is not very patient though. This is just one of those areas. Everything else seems to be quite good for the time being.

avondale...

I think you have given mommax8 some very good advice. I can only say that as always... I agree with you.

I still think you and relady are being way to nice to Petvet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> LOL.

I'm waiting though... I'm sure you will both lower the boom on him when he least expects it. "Watch out Petvet... it's coming you just don't know it yet". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

mommax8

I read where you sent your "H" a Plan B letter. The key thing with that type of a letter... is you have to follow through with it once it's been sent. If you don't... you truly minimize your chances to ever have a successful marriage.

Let him make the changes he needs to make... and in the meantime... start looking out for you and your children, and take the required steps to live your lives with him, or without him if he doesn't get the help he needs.

WGTT...

How are you holding up? let us know when you get a chance.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/26/03 05:17 AM
Hi All,

Well the weekend is just about here and I'm getting ready to celebrate my YD's Birthday today.

She is 17 yrs.old today.

Going out for dinner and then have a small Birthday party for her at home with my son, OD, her boyfriend as well as my G/F... so it should be enjoyable.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/27/03 11:31 AM
Hi all!

Relady: So let me get this right, a woman of 50 has more sexual energy? I don't want to get to detail, but how does that happen?

Avondale: I guess you are right. I am rebuilding my roof. If you and Relady need to set me straight, please do.

Wallace: I hope your B-Day outing with your daughter went well. Did your buddy attend?

Me: B-Day went OK. My buddy brought me a couple of shirts of higher grade than I am use to. She said that she wants me to look real nice when we go out. Hmmmm.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/27/03 12:54 PM
Yippee...the sun is out here and I can't wait to relax outside this afternoon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet - Glad you have some new clothes to wear. What type of places did she have in mind for y'all to go out to? That comment of yours says something about your wardrobe OR her taste in entertainment (maybe both). Are you ready for a makeover from your buddy?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Relady: So let me get this right, a woman of 50 has more sexual energy? I don't want to get to detail, but how does that happen? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it's part psychological and part physiological. I also would like a definitive answer from Relady because I have noticed with myself (45 yrs old) that it's probably true. And here I am separated, too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> LOL

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Avondale: I guess you are right. I am rebuilding my roof. If you and Relady need to set me straight, please do. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We can't set you straight if you don't share with us. Don't hold back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Wallace was more transparent that you are! That's why we can keep him on the right path.

Wallace - hope the birthday party went well. How's your relationship with your OD? Are you still "tough loving" her or has that flown out the window?

EC - Will you be taking classes this summer too?

WGTT, Mx8 , where are you? I haven't seen any recent posts.

<small>[ April 27, 2003, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/28/03 05:18 AM
Hi All!

Avondale - The dispute between me and exw was over YD called me one day week prior telling me all that she was going through with her mom and her own personal life and it was a weeknight and we were having such a good 2 hour conversation and time got away from us, it was 10p my time 11p her time. Exw walks in the room and ask who is she talking to? She says, Dad, exw tells daughter well you have to go its your bed time and you have school in the morning. Well me and YD agree and say bye.

Exw then calls my house 15 mins later and cuss at me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> for being on the phone with YD at 11p on a school night.
( now this blew me away because YD and OD when I lived in the house, I allowed them to talk on the phone until 11p if is was another girl one of there buddies but no guys). So exw said her say and hung up on me. YD being on the phone this late has not changed, exw wanted to enforce her authority because it was me! So I gave her a piece of my mind the next day, however the war ended quickly once she told me some of YD's motives in what was happening stating YD was plotting to take me for ride and exw said I was the biggest fool ever...which I don't believe are true.

Then I had tell exw what YD thought of her, that YD looked at her as being incompetent and in left field and grieved at what she's done and doing to the family and that YD knew exw's BF that envaded the family is wrong built on lying and deceit and wasn't going to last, out of YD's own mouth, also the very reasons why YD has been talking back to exw and ignore her curfews of course I tell YD to respectful, it's still her mother and her house. Told exw YD is torn and heartbroken she lives in an apartment with no livingroom furniture and never no money for the past 2 1/2 years, said she's tired of the poverty,YD said when her friends come over they have to stand for hours or sit on the floor, since then all has been quite not another word.

One day after that Exw then tells me to mind my own business and if I have any questions about her house then ask her or her man, said If I'm on phone and with YD or OD and personal business comes up, they've been instructed to hand the phone over to her or her so called man, problem is YD told me those things, I didn't ask.....What the real problem is when exw's BF comes over, to her room he goes like two wild dogs in heat. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ALL I can say is oneday soon that relationship is going to end, what a day of rejoicing that will be, the jerk that invaded my home will be driven away! Exw has made hints that there are problems and from what I gather in her comments that this will never go to marriage and could end before 2003 is over, who knows? but God...not looking for her to return to me only that she don't bring another idiot around my daughters...

As far as school this summer, I don't know yet, I would like to keep at a good pace and get it over with.. They have me going to school at work during the day for my A+ Certification, thats building PC's inside and out. I already know how to do it, but don't have the paper show it.

Since I have so much free time I think I'm going to go ahead and get my bachelors in Theology. I read and study my bible so much, might as well make the time count for something. Don't know if I want to start in May or Sept, it's self paced, correspondce. My Community College class is only every other week, 1 hour in class, so just 2 times a month equal 2 hours a month, so that's hardly nothing, I'll be done with that summer of 2004..

Come mid 2004, I'll be done with all my schooling and several certifications and I'll also be done with child support, i'll debt free and owe nobody, so my 2004 is my year of abundance, I declare that I will be a very wealthy person in the very near future..

You shall reap, if you faint not!!!!

Don't faint in the mist of the storm because, Somewhere in the future you look much better than you look right now!! Praise God <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Who ever dreamed all this good would occur because a Wayward wife decided to run off and leave!!! It was sad at the time but now life's getting better! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/28/03 03:12 PM
Hi all,

Well it's Monday again, and time to start a new week. Hope everyone had a good weekend.

avondale...

As I always do... I'm going to stir the pot up a little bit... concerning the sexual energy between a 50 yr old man versus a 50 yr. old woman.

I'm not sure if in fact a 50 yr. old woman has more energy mentally or physicaly in general. I wonder if there has been a study done on it... and who did it... and what was the criteria used and based on?

Of course I'm basing this on almost 24 yrs. of marriage with one woman where it didn't appear to be the case. Of course we were not in our 50's and if in fact she was handing it out all over the place... like it appears she was... then maybe there is some truth to it.

Petvet...

So you are going through the make over. I've been in mine for a little over a year and counting. Not sure if it's helping me or not... but a mans gotta do... what a mans gotta do... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Getting new clothes and such... especially if your stepping it up to a higher grade of clothing is usually a good pick me upper. Of course it's the old saying... "it's not what's on the outside... it's what's on the inside. Appearances can be deceiving. I learned that one the hard way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

EC...

Just a thought came into my mind while I was reading your post.

Do you think you may have jeopardized the trust factor between you and your YD by going back and telling your exW all that you and your YD may have been talking about?

Based on what I'm hearing... your exW is very manipulative and she could of said the things she said about your YD to try to get you to open up to her so you would tell her about what you and your YD were talking about.

Just a thought... I hope it didn't hurt your communications with your YD. She may feel like she can't open up to you now for fear that it may get back to your exW. From this end over here... it sounds like it may have... I hope that's not the case, because I know how much it means to you.

Glad to hear that school is going well for you.
Keep up the good work.

Me...

B-day went very well. My G/F and all my kids were there and we had a very enjoyable evening.

Concerning my OD... we talk on the telephone once in awhile. I will not go over to where my OD and B/F live... because I feel like they would consider that I would be accepting the lifestyle that they have chosen. She comes over to the house and visits us with her B/F for birthdays, etc., but that is about it.

They are talking about getting married... so we will see. They said they want me to get married first before they do. I don't understand the logic behind that... I guess only time will tell.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ April 28, 2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/29/03 12:19 PM
Hey Y'all,

Give me your opinion on this: Hubby sent this email 10 days ago:

I don't want to make you feel uncomfortable - if you want to go to neice's wedding, let me know, and I will stay home. I think it is important that one of us be there. I have a gig later that afternoon, so If I can't go, it will be ok - but if you can't go, let me know, and I will try to make it.

It seems almost like he's thinking of us as a couple cuz of the "I think it's important that one of us be there", doesn't it?

To which I replied:
Regarding neice's wedding, I am not sure why you think I would feel uncomfortable around your family. Your mom calls me almost weekly, and I get calls or emails from everyone else pretty regularly. (actually not as much any more but he doesn't need to know that.)

So then he replied:
I didn't think you would feel uncomfortable around my family - I thought you might feel uncomfortable around me. That is very very true but I wasn't going to let him know.

So a couple of days ago he writes:
What should we do about neice's wedding - I honestly think that you should go if you would like - my family thinks I am crazy anyway, so not going to her wedding won't make that much of a difference (just kidding, sort of). So, I am asking you to consider this, and let me know - if you would like to go, let me know. Otherwise, I will go.

and then farther down wrote: Please let me know about neice's wedding - I know you told my Mom that you thought I should go because I am family, but i am really ok with the idea of you going and me staying away. So, let me know

Now I"m confused....I had planned on going, and as Relady said "be polite, look good, and smell great" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and not stay for reception. But I don't want him to use MY going as an excuse for him to NOT go and then everyone may blame me. Any thoughts? I need to reply to his email and had thought saying something alone the line of:

You should do whatever you want to do about attending neice's wedding. I had planned to go to neice's wedding whether you attend or not. If my going would be the only reason you wouldn't attend, then I will be glad to stay home and I really mean that. But if you have other commitments I'm sure neice will understand. After all, she had to work during daughter's wedding.

<small>[ April 29, 2003, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/29/03 02:26 PM
Hi avondale,

Concerning the upcoming wedding... it appears that your "H" is somewhat looking for an excuse to not have both of you there at the same time.

Correct me if I'm wrong... but this is the first family function that you may both attend since your daughter's wedding.

If in fact that is the case, he may feel very awkward explaining to his family why he is in the state that he is in, and you may be a reminder to all as to why the situation is the way it is.

IMHO, he is trying to avoid this circumstance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You should do whatever you want to do about attending neice's wedding. I had planned to go to neice's wedding whether you attend or not. If my going would be the only reason you wouldn't attend, then I will be glad to stay home and I really mean that. But if you have other commitments I'm sure neice will understand. After all, she had to work during daughter's wedding. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would put the ball in his court and send the email pretty much just as you stated above.

If you do decide to go... take relady's advice and go there and look stunning and radiant.

Let us know what you decide.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 04/29/03 04:21 PM
Hi all,

Sorry I haven't written in a couple of days, I only have access while I am at work because my stbxh took my computer with him. I don't work on Monday so I have to wait til Tues.

I am trying to get caught up on all of you and where you are now so please forgive me if I don't reply individually to everyones individual situations. I wish you all well and your in my prayers.

As far as an update from my situation, I got to work this morning and received a letter from stbxh that he sent to my work. He received papers last week and is shocked, he really didn't think I would do it. He says he saw the last 15years of his life pass by him and how he took me for granted and how he misses and loves me. Well the kicker is that he says as soon as I find him a place he will come back but because he is out of town and doesn't have minutes on his phone card it is too hard for him so I will have to get him set up in a place and possibly a car lined up too.

My best friend read the letter and said he was a sick man and never once mentioned the kids or the responsibilities of a family and taking care of us financially...... We talk now every night, I didn't call last night and he called me 5x and left me an urgent voicemail around 10:30pm I thought something must have happened so I called. Well his mother was livid because she had asked me to not call the house after 9pm which I totally respect that and unless there was an emergency no problem. Well I hear her in the background that she is sick and tired of me disrespecting them......I told him fine I will not call her house again that he better get himself a cell phone or something if I need to get in touch with him. Life and death emergency only. He did tell his mother and I heard him that it was his fault but she just got huffy and walked off. Oh and she told him because it was after 10pm he could not take a shower because the plumbing is loud and it will wake his 32yr old sister who is also there.......

Anyway the conversation ended now with him telling me that the sooner I find him a place the sooner he would come back and hopefully the sooner the better because he is sick of the sh**.

Gee, I am really sick of things too, you think if I just walked away someone would set me up a place and condone my behavior.....THINK NOT...

Well I am very confused, because I know that I should cease all contact but now I don't know how to tell him because I am afraid to hurt him....how insane does that sound. I don't want to hurt his feelings as if mine never mattered when he stomped all over mine.... Well I am just ranting and raving. What do ya'll think? (yes, the tennessee gal)
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 04/30/03 05:39 AM
Hi Everyone, Just wanted to drop by and say hi. You are still in my prayers and my thoughts. Hope everyone is doing well. God Bless!
Dave
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 04/30/03 05:48 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a great weekend.

Petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So let me get this right, a woman of 50 has more sexual energy? I don't want to get to detail, but how does that happen? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't really tell you without going into detail. But between the ages of 45 and 50, the body chemistry of women changes and most become more sexual. Haven't you heard that women are sexier after 50?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My buddy brought me a couple of shirts of higher grade than I am use to. She said that she wants me to look real nice when we go out. Hmmmm
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Be very careful. Watch out for the 'mother' position. We women have a tendency to want to 'mother' younger men even though we want to date them too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

Tell you H that you are going to the wedding and the reception and let that be the end of that conversation. It appears he is trying to get you to change your mind. And believe me, you want him to be there, so no more. 'If you go I won't go" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Let him think you're not going and show up anyway! Am I terrible or what? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

NOW, Get the perfume called, 'HOT' and get your dress at www.dresses.com and you'll be all set!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wallace

Didn't know I had a crystal ball, did ya?

Mommax8

IMHO, You need to concentrate on yourself and your children, or you won't be much good for anyone. Let your H find his own place and car when and if he decides to come back. I know it's difficult, however; you should discontinue all contact with him. You and the children are your first priority.

EC

I feel you truly betrayed your YD confidence. I'm sure she caught a lot of heat from your X on that one. How are things since then.

God Bless,
relady

<small>[ April 29, 2003, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/30/03 02:51 AM
Mx8 - I am REALLY glad to hear from you. I was getting worried. Relady is entirely correct. It is very self-serving for your H to expect you to get him a place to stay, a car, etc.. He needs to do those things himself if he "sees the last 15 years passing before him". Also, doesn't the fact that his 32 year old sister is also having to live with your in-laws tell you something? There is a behavioral pattern in that family that is not healthy. Don't buy into it. Stand firm; I know it's tough but you can do it. Your idea for him to get a cell phone was a good one. Remember, if he comes home acting the way he is now, you'll have to change your ID to Mommax9, and you don't really want to do that, do you?

Relady - Thanks for responding to my wedding question, wahooooooo That dress site is something else! I'll keep it in mind for future dressy occasions. How much of your wardrobe comes from there? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Oh, btw, are you over 50?

EC - I've gotta agree with the others....I hope your YD wasn't a victim of too much of her mom's dissatisfaction with your phone conversation. Let us know when you speak to her again.

Dave - Great to hear from you - we had thought you'd dropped off the earth. Hope things are going well for recovery.

Wallace - Thanks for responding to my wedding question. I'm sooo glad you haven't left this thread!

Petvet, WGTT, RMA - Hope things are well with y'all too.

Me - I sent the email, pretty much as I printed it here. I don't know why I wrestled with it so much. Sometimes the strangest things can be blocks to our minds, I guess. I'm really glad I've got y'all to give input!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/30/03 11:58 AM
Hi all!

EC: Seems your ex is up to her old tricks again. Oh, she never stopped did she?

Avondale: I agree with Relady. Tell him that you won't be going, and just show up looking Beautiful.To be honest, I think your H wants to bring his lady friend with him and just does not want you there. I think you made yourself clear about your intentions. My guess is that his lady friend will not attend wedding with your there. What do you think? If you did see the other woman face to face, could you see her without decking her, and kicking your H in the --ts? Just food for thought.

Relady: It does not have something to do with menaupause, does it? She has told me that she wants someone to complete the icing her cake. She is not looking for someone to baby. I think most woman want their men to look nice in clothes. She is deep and serious. Also, does that sexual energy have anything to do with mid life crisis? She purchased a sportscar(miata) last year. She is pretty well off financially but not rich.

Wallace: I glad to hear that the party went well. Has your kids accepted your G/F? Your OD needs to stop it. Get married, please.

Dave: Glad to hear from you.

Mommax8: The games continue with your H. They will continue unless you set boundaries.

Me: Buddy and I may go to concert festival this weekend.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/30/03 02:41 PM
Hi Gang!

Just passing through, hope everyone is doing ok!

On the YD issue, I don't feel I betrayed YD's trust because exw did say some things YD told me in secret and to a point I had to believe exw. Some of the things YD is going through is because of her defiance of exw's curfew and house rules. So in the process I tried to get YD to see that despite she may not agree with exw's ways, she still has to respect her and her house.

A lot of what YD is going through is because of some boy she's fell in love with. So her hormones are ruling at the moment. Her delay in her decision to come live with me is based on if she wants to leave her BF behind or not...So there you have it.

I've decided not to persuade YD to come anymore but let her make up her own mind....In that I begun my count down for when this is all over regardless...

Currently I have 379 days...In Feb 2004 I'll be filing the start of the ending of CS, therefore exw will have no more legal tie to me at all, i'm excited... YD will be 18 soon...OD will be 20....

More than anything my daughters know I love them and would do anything for them and they know once my finances are freed what i'll do for them.

I honestly know that once I'm free from this financial prison everything in me will flow freely and everything that is out of order will line up, that I know. You can't do what you know to do without the finances to do them.

I currently have another court date in May for another arrearage adjustment to a lower amount, It's been wrong since May 2002....So it's all disappearing one chunk at a time.

What's funny is <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> exw said leave her alone she's tired of going to court <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> and is trying to move the case to her county so she don't have to drive 4 hours for a 10 minute court appearence. I don't have to show up in person of course I'm 1,200 miles away, I'll be on the phone. My thoughts on the whole thing was 'Well you filed for DV and botched it all up!'. I'm just trying to dig out of the mess.

What's amazing more than anything exw had her affairs, exw filed for DV in 2001, since then she's had no peace, she's gotten CS but has no money, has a BF but no relationship BF is a controller she has no freedom.....

What did she gain?? Nothing but a painful illusion and wound to the soul.

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/30/03 03:43 PM
Hi all,

mommax8...

Since when is it your responsibility to set your "H" up with a place for all of you to live so he can come back because he is tired of the sh**.

Keep in mind... your dealing with an addict here. There is a saying... "nothing changes when nothing changes". What has he done to change himself for the better and show you and your children that he is changed and he won't pull another stunt that you will all regret?

I'm not hearing of anything as of yet.

He found his way out... he can find his way back in if indeed he truly wants to have a successful "M". He is not a child and please don't enable him to continue his pattern and cycle of life that he is continuing to try to get you to fall for.

He needs to take the first steps.

Get IC.

Go to an AA meeting or Narc-anon or whichever one suits his situation best... and continue going.

Get a job if he doesn't have one and start showing some responsibility for you and your children.

These are just the first initial steps. If he can't do that... I would set your boundaries and Plan B him until he does.

If you allow him to come back without any changes your going to go right back in the soup again... you can "Bank" on it.

Don't make the same mistake you made last time.

Last but not least... is say a prayer and have the Lord take control of your life.

If I recall correctly your going to DivorceCare... which IMHO is a very good program.

Seek some IC from the Church your attending the group with... I'm sure they may be able to help you as well.

relady...

I didn't know you had a crystal ball... but I do now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet...

Icing on the cake? New clothes? Sexual energy?

Stop!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

This all sounds like it is going very long term very quickly... even faster than what I've got going.

I met with my IC yesterday. He stated that the rule of thumb... to allow for healing and getting through all of the issues that you may or may not have takes approximately one year. He qualified it by stating that some people can get by it in a shorter duration... but they are in a minority. Most people take a minimum of one year and some much longer. Some people never do recover from it... ever. But they are few and far between.

I found that interesting... just thought I would share it with you and everyone else.

He recommended that you should not consider marriage to anyone for at least one year minimum.
(it was noted by yours truly).

avondale...

I also have to agree with Petvet.Your "H" may in fact be feeling you out to see if he can bring his G/F to the wedding and such.

I'm also glad I decided to stay... I have to look after my little sister here.

Dave...

It's good to hear from you.

I have to assume everything is still going well with your recovery... you didn't indicate anything to the contrary.

Hope everything is well, and keep up the good work.

Ec, WGTT, and anyone else...

Hope everything is going well for all of you.

Have a good day all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 04/30/03 03:54 PM
Good Morning all,

I really need the strength for the Plan B letter, I am really struggling with the thought of no contact which is going to hurt me. I am afraid I will lose him forever....hello I filed for divorce. I can't continue this turmoil everyday, he might as well be in the house again and doing it. He keeps telling me that I am making things up to keep things going......for examples

Am I wrong that I have been left with all the responsibilities, financially and with the kids, he feels it is unfair but unless I get him a place there is nothing he can do about it. . I am emailing him today Plan B. Please be here for me because this is going to kill me. I have he divorcecare class tonight thank God, because I am going to be crushed knowing I can't talk to him and it is the choice I had to make...... Hope you all are well, take care and pray for me.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/30/03 04:35 PM
Hi mommax8,

Let me make a suggestion.

Before you send him the Plan B letter.... write it out and post it so all can give you an idea if it's a good lettr to send him based on your circumstances.

There are a lot of good people here... and it's always a good idea to get ideas as far as what is good about your letter and what may be a "LB".

We don't want you to say anything that may detract from your letter and cause you more grief.

Hope you read this before you send the letter.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/30/03 10:16 PM
Mx8 - If you didn't see Wallace's post and have already sent the Plan B letter, could you post it here anyway for us to read? Knowing what you said will help us support you. And we're here for you, don't forget that.

EC - What is your courtdate in May? Let me know and I'll be praying for you.

Me - Sorry, y'all you're a little bit off the mark. Hubby's g/f lives in California, so she won't be coming to niece's wedding. I honestly don't think he'd be THAT crass to bring her when we aren't divorced. However, they will be living together in NYC this summer as he finishes his PhD <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 05/01/03 02:36 PM
Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that I didn't get the post before I sent the plan B letter I was quite emotional when I wrote it and here it is, I really don't think it had an impact, we talked for the last time last night and the conversation ended hostile with him telling me that I am acting the way that cause him to leave.....I am glad I saw that side of him again because then his I love you's and his undying love for me are just words......which in my heart I knew all along I just wanted to believe it so badly. He read this letter yesterday at 5:00pm and when I questioned him about a bill at 9:30pm he said you don't have to remind me about the bills all the time, yet he doesn't pay them. I know its really over now, I was holding on to something I don't think I ever really had.

Well here is the Plan B

I get up each and everyday with lonliness that is just unbearable. I try to tell myself this is a new day and it will get better. I try to imagine my life without out you and I just crumble to the floor, yet I am living my life withou you and I am making it each day, crumbling yet making it. Egor, your tone has changed with me because I am sticking up for myself, because my heart was broken by the one person that said would never hurt it. I am in constant pain, you say you are too, but you chose this. So, my love, if I choose this then maybe the pain won't be as bad, and the anger can start going away, in some way knowing that I made the choice and not you won't hurt so bad. The rejection from the one you love leaves you with such a wound that only time can heal, and each day I hear your voice, it oozes a little more. The only analogy I can say is this, that when you have a scab and you keeping picking at it, it will bleed and continue to until you just leave it alone and give it time to heal, but you just have the urge that you have to pick at it. That may have been a gross analogy but a good one I thought. You have wounds, I have wounds, mine are very fresh and yours are of the past. You know its like the Cher song "if I could turn back time" read the lyrics. This is the hardest thing I have ever had to do, first was losing you and having to deal with it everyday not having you near me, now the next step is to cease all contact between each other, we are picking the scab Egor. I know you want to just focus on getting back here and act like everything is ok, but Egor, I filed for divorce on March 21, 2003. You still have not done any of the things that I expected you would do, which in turn is making me feel like we have nothing to look forward to. I didn't ask of you anything that would not be your responsibility anyway.

1. Get into counseling
2. Get off all the meds to help you deal with us
3. Attend AA meetings (they will pick you up you know)
4. Get a job (isn't there a 7 Eleven at the end of the road, however if your intentions were to do that it should have been already done, now you have to wait until you get here, if you still plan on that.
5. Go to church everytime the doors are open (they will pick you up)
6. Financially take care of your family
7. Find a place here to live near the kids
8. Find a job here and take care of your kids needs emotionally and financially.

I don't think these are unrealistic expectations, I do it everyday all by myself and take care of 8 kids.
When you left it was for you to get better, you sent me back an email this morning stating your problem is not an addiction, well I beg to differ because you are an alcoholic and that will never change. I am no good to you and you are no good to me as we are right now, and face it that may never change. We may never be good for each other ever again. We can fight it and say its you and me against the world and that because we love each other so deeply we can make it. Well some of that is true but there is 8 children involved and we are placing the needs of ourselves first and that is wrong. The children will be scarred for life, your decision that you made was very selfish because you did not think of them as you should have. That is something you will have to pay the consequences for. You asked me to write you a email that was nice. Did you think of being nice and fair too me when you refused my calls, when you refused to have anything to do with me. When you told me to "Get over it". I am fighting back tears right now because I am telling the one person that I love with all my heart and soul that we may never be together again. I just started to cry when I wrote that, this is so hard for me because when I tried to tell you my feelings about your letter, when it was my feelings you didn't want to hear that you wanted to hear me say "oh honey that was so sweet you made my heart melt" Michael the person that wrote that letter was also the person that hurt me so deeply that I may never recover. Am I scared to death??? yes I am, I am afraid of losing you forever but I feel like I already have because I don't have your whole heart because you still refuse to come home. If you really felt about me the way you said in the letter it would not be humanly possible for you to remain away from me. You keep telling me to wait, I have waited for 2 months and that may not sound like much to you but it is for me. It is 2 months of my life that I took the focus off of all other areas of my live, such as my children, my job, and God, This is all too consuming on a daily basis. Our children have seen their father one time since Mar 3, 2003. I have seen my husband one time since he has left me. When you leave your family you take a very big risk and their are consequences for actions and Egor this time Shari can't fix this one because it's my heart that is broken and that is one thing Mommax8 doesn't know how to fix that is left in GOD'S hands now because I can't do it anymore. The chance of reconciliation for us consists of certain criteria that needs to be met by the other before reconciliation is even considered, the promise of what can, or what will be just don't cut it. You always have good intentions but this time instead of not paying a bill and losing a possession, you are losing me and the trustworthines of the kids. Egor I continue to enable you to keep doing the same things over and over again and I am the one expecting different results. You keep saying I thought we had a plan. Well we had a plan when we moved to Texas, Virginia, Maine and Tennessee, look where our plans have gotten us. ................................I lose a piece of you each day and I have no control over it but you do and you aren't willing to do that, you just won't, you have your plans with your father and going fishing on that boat is more important. Basically the proof will be in the pudding, How much do you really love me Egor, your reaction to this letter will tell me and you need to really think about it because your reaction to this can determine our future. Yes, it is alot of pressure but Egor its timefor action. It's choice time, your choices in life lead your to your direction in the future what is yours going to be.I N more calls nor more contact except for the kids.......I still love you and don't you ever forget that it will never change, I just need to do what is best for me and the kids right now.....

<small>[ May 01, 2003, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: mommax8 ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/01/03 07:42 PM
((((Mx8))))

I know that letter was difficult to write. Your list of 8 expectations are not unreasonable and most are things that any wife would need and expect. During this upcoming time period, you need to work on YOU, what you can do to improve yourself and change any habits, negative mindsets, etc. about yourself. Make sure to read up on "Plan B" here on the Marriage Builders site.

I did have two questions, maybe it was in another thread when you first started coming here, but do you mind sharing about what caused your H to leave? Was there an incident, a confirmed or suspected affair, a legal problem, some behavior thing, etc.? ALSO, how are you existing financially? I think you're living with your parents but not sure. Do you know about any governmental/ community assistance in your area? With 8 kids, don't be afraid to take advantage of whatever services you and your kids need.

Also, you may want to edit that last post if you used the real name of your H and any others in it. You can substitute fake names (might be fun - Peachy uses names from the Beverly Hillbillies show) or just use H for husband. One never knows who reads these public boards...
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 05/01/03 08:15 PM
Thank you for the advice I really needed it, I changed the names I really wasn't thinking when I wrote it. As far as what happened when he left be began drinking again after 12 years of being of sober.

He ruined our family vacation in August, I was working 2 jobs through the holidays to make ends meet and he is disabled with bipolar and does not work outside the home. However I found out he was drinking quite heavily with the children were around and he picked me up from work one day totally drunk with the keys in the car, that day he ended up in rehab that was Jan 3, 2003. He was discharged on Jan 16th and was ok for about a month but never attended AA nor ever apologized for what he did to me and the kids. The doctors then prescribed narcotic medication to him which was wrong because he will take all of it and that is what he did.

He wrecked the van with my 2 children in the car, then when my mother picked him up with me he passed out the entire way home, he then walked in the door and fell down the stairs with our daughter, he said he had enough and started packing his belongings, I asked him where he was going he had no where to go. He started to take the computer and I said No , he called 911 because i wouldn't let him have the computer, needless to say when the police arrive they knew he was under the influence, took him to the hospital and his parents came down and he left with them on March 3, and he hasn't seen us but once since. He is alcohol and drug free completely now and sounds like the person I knew but he still don't take responsibility for anything he never did in our marriage and he won't now. I know it is my fault for staying in it for so long, but I just can't describe to you how much I love him, I didn't think it was possible to love someone this much that wasn't your child.

As far as assistance I have a wonderful support system, the problem I am having is the financial commitments that were made by both of us and he does not feel now he has any obligation, not to mention child support. I have a wonderful church family and they have been very emotionally supportive, and the state is helping with food and childcare. The main thing is we had just bought a house and closed on it a month before he left and we rented out our old one and had to lease it for less so I have to pay $1000 for the new house and $100 for the old for the difference, I am totally overwhelmed and feel like everything is just caving in on me.

Thanks for the supports

<small>[ May 01, 2003, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: mommax8 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/02/03 04:50 AM
Hi all!

Mommax8:You wrote a good Plan B letter. What you asked him to do is realistic and fair; now, it is up to him.

Avondale: I stand corrected. :p I did not know that your H and his slut were living in different states. Boy, that relationship is going to last.

EC: Continue to move forward. Even though you will be finish with CS next year, strive for your goals anyway. I know the financial hit hurts every month, but try to work around it.

Wallace: Stop! laugh Are you kidding? cool After two years or so, then I will see evaluate things at that time but not before. I'm still waiting for the shingles to blow off the roof. :eek:

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/02/03 10:53 AM
Petvet - poor buddy, still don't have those icons down yet, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I wonder if your computer has some type of anti-icon virus thing on it, LOL. Although it does appear that you put them in appropriate places! Maybe the javascript factor at this MB site wasn't working.

Me - THE FAMILY WEDDING is tomorrow. I've got my dress and will be as ready as I ever will be. Y'all pray for me around 1 PM EST if you think about it. Don't know if hubby will attend or not.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 05/02/03 12:41 PM
Hi all,

thanks for the feedback on my plan B letter, i have done really well without calling him however, he emailed me after I sent him the month's bill ledger and asked if we could talk about it. I emailed him back strictly business. Well, he calls me at 8:30pm and proceeds to discuss us I said I am not going to talk about that, I need the money you owe me, he tells me that he just doesn't have and that is that and he then goes on to say "why can't we just have a peaceful conversation and not talk about all this stuff, I said sorry can't I have to pay the bills, bye.

GOOD FOR ME!!!!!!!!!! He told me he will be here on May 22 for girls grad, then permanently around the 4th of June, I gave no reply......I think I am at the anger stage again because I am getting ready to lose everything and he just don't care.

Well I hope all is well for all of you

AVONDALE I'll pray for you!!!!

Prayers to all
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 05/02/03 03:42 PM
Hi All,

Well today is Friday and another weekend is here, can you believe we're already half way through the year?

MommaX8

That was a great plan B letter. I'm proud of the way you handled his phone call. As you continue to show him your strength, he'll break his neck to get back without your help. WHY? because he is loosing the control over you. Remember, it's him who needs you more than you need him, but he has convinced you otherwise!

Avondale

Yes, I have gotten a few dresses from that site. I attend quite a few real estate events as well as fund raising events for a local charity. And I like to have a different but elegant look! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
We'll have to go there for Wallace's and Petvet's weddings when we all get together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Be back later,
God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/02/03 06:41 PM
Hi all,

Well the weekend is just about here... and I'm trying to get ready for it because I have a ton things that are on my plate that I need to get done.

mommax8...

I think you're Plan B letter was pretty good. You covered all the bases and now the ball is in his court.

Let his actions be your gauge on what steps you need to do next concerning your "M".

Continue working on getting yourself and your children pointed in the right direction.Take all the necessary steps to prepare yourself and your children to lead lives without your "H" if in fact he cannot get his act together.

As avondale stated... read up on Plan B if you haven't already.

I'll be praying for you and your children.

EC...

Sorry to hear that your YD is testing the waters.

After my exW left... both of my daughters kicked in and tested the waters several times with me at the helm by myself (boy issues as well). It was a little rough at first... but things started leveling out soon after, with my YD at least.

When you get your finances straightened out... everything will start opening up for you. That will be a nice feeling for you I'm sure.

Keep up the good work.

Petvet...

You keep that mindset my friend... your going to need it... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Funny thing is... I said the very same thing as what you just posted above. In fact... I had to have the "talk" with my G/F again... this is like the second or third time we have had the "talk".

I'm sticking to my guns too! I'm going to wait at least until next year concerning anything having to do with "M".

I'll give my G/F credit though... she is persistant... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Feel free to tell us at anytime when you have had the "talk" with your buddy... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> it will come... it's just a matter of when. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

avondale...

I'll be saying a prayer for you for tomorrow.

Your probably going to start to get this sick feeling... if you haven't already started feeling it.

You will do good... just go in there and let them know that life is good and have a good time.

Say a prayer before you go and let the Lord lead your way through it.

Your right... if his G/F is in California... I don't think you have to worry about her being there.

Good luck tomorrow and have fun.

relady...

I clicked on that link that you posted for avondale, and I must say that they have some very stylish dresses.

If and when I get married <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> you and avondale can both come to my wedding... but you both have to promise to wear one of those dresses from that sight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/05/03 11:18 AM
Hope everyone had a great weekend!

EC - did you get any tornadoes in your area?

Wallace - did you say you had to have ANOTHER TALK with your g/f?? You call that persistence and you're right, but there is a down side to that trait, too - some call it "nagging".

Petvet - did you go to the concert this weekend? You need to share more about your "buddy" so we can give you all our wisdom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Mx8 - Have you checked into any "consumer credit counseling" type of organizations in your area? They may be able to advise you about your financial circumstances. Do you feel like you have people around you (friends or family) who can help you make decisions about what to do with your housing/expenses situations?

Relady - I didn't get a dress from the site - just wore my new Easter dress - but remind me about it again when these two guys get married! Most of the dresses appear to be the type that would add some additional self-esteem to the wearer. However, I shouldn't need to order one anytime this year, so the guys say.... LOL

Me - Well...the wedding went well. From the time I arrived, I was in the company of one or more in-laws the entire time. I'm not sure if this was planned (maybe by God <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) but it made me feel very much at ease. Of course, they didn't ignore hubby, either, but it certainly seemed I got way more of their attention. In the food line, I passed him and said "hi" and was going to move on but he asked where I was sitting. I said something to the effect of "some chair, somewhere" and he said "I'll join you when I get my food." Is this fog or what? LOL But I ended up sitting with his brother and others; hubby didn't join us, and I didn't see him but at a glance after that. I did feel bad for my daughter because she was literally caught in the middle, but she seemed to handle everything well too. It turned out to be a very nice afternoon, I'm real glad I went. Thanks to all of you for your suggestions & support.

If I missed anyone, sorry!

<small>[ May 05, 2003, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 05/06/03 01:23 PM
Wanted to give update only have a moment, but wanted to let you know....stbxh is on family vacation in myrtle beach....12yr old daughter was sent to alternative school, and 15yr old brother is sent to juvenile hall yesterday due to defending his sister and threatening a student....i think I am about to lose it....Please pray pray pray..........
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/06/03 04:34 PM
Mx8 - Wanted you to know that I read your post and have prayed for you just now. I hope you have a good support system around you there - both family and non-family who can stand by you during this. Try to not get too stressed; as parents we can only do the best we know how and ultimately God has given our kids to us for a short time anyway. Unfortunately part of this is probably due to your H's behavior (which isn't helping, I know) but that's out of your control too. You're in my thoughts and prayers!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/07/03 05:27 AM
Hi all,

It was a busy weekend and a busy day yesterday for me.

Hope everyone had a good weekend.

avondale...

I'm pleased to hear that you went to the wedding and had an enjoyable time.

What's with your "H" asking you if you wanted him to join you... and then disappearing for the rest of the wedding. Sometimes I think these WSs have lost most of their mind (fog?). I think it goes a lot farther than that... but that's just my opinion.

That was so nice of your in-laws to go the extra mile to make you feel comfortable while you were there. I wish I had in-laws like that... but alas... they are just as whacked as my exW is.

I'll bet that your D was feeling like she was caught in the middle while all of this was going on. Was her "H" there with her?

So now that the wedding is behind you... what's next on the agenda?

mommax8...

I've been saying prayers for you and your children. You really have quit a bit going on.

Sometimes when things like this happens... the kids have a tendency to go out of control.

I'll keep you in my prayers.

Hang in there... your in the middle of the storm... it won't last forever. It will get better.

Hope everyone else is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/07/03 09:47 PM
Hi all!

Mommax8: I am praying for you. Do you have family or friends that can help you? You have too much pressure on you. Can you move in with family including parents?

Avondale: I'm glad to hear that evrything went well at the wedding. It's amazing that your H was coming off as though things were business as usual. You are correct when yyou said that I am having trouble with the icons. They appear to take on when I send things through, but don't appear on the actual post. I don't know what's going on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Wallace: Things are going well between my buddy and I. She is still trying to deal with issue of dating a younger guy, but she says that she is dealing with it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I know you are not going to get hitch anytime soon, right! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Me: I missed the concert on Saturday because I came across a police road block and discovered that my license had expired; well, to make a long story short, my car was impounded. That's all I can say because I am so mad but I have cooled down some. I got my car back but a little poorer.
What can I say! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

And I'm gone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 05/08/03 04:29 PM
Hi there all,

Wanted to give you an update and also some more information as far as where I am living and ect... the children are ok. Daughter started alternative school today because our county had been closed due to the flooding in Tennessee. Also, I was able to get a reprieve for my son due to the circumstances and him standing up for his sister and feeling he has to be the male role.

As far as my living arrangements, On Jan 18th I closed on a new home that we had purchased with my folks in order to take care of them as they get older and as well as my 93yr old grandmother. It has now turned around to where my parent's are having to help me and the kids and I assist with my grandmother when I have time. My father and mother had both planned on retiring after we bought the house and travel so they would not be there very often, father retired from airlines so they have free flight benefits.
This was the dream home for all of us a 3 story log cabin, 7 bed 5 bath and we have a creek with rapids running along the back of the 3 1/2 acres, it is beautiful. There are two separate living rooms and kitchens in which my parent's were going to be downstairs but since my H left I gave them the master suite upstairs and took the bedroom and bath down in the rec room which essentially is another suite in itself.

None of us would have been able to afford this house without all of us pitching in but we wanted it for the kids. Well now my parent's are both still working, I have had to cut back at work to 3 days in which, I am very lucky to even be able to keep my job since I have really not been with it since he left.

We do attend a local church and they have been wonderful, the emotional and financial aspect is what is hitting me the most but if I didn't have my parent's and the church and my co-workers i would never be able to do this and of course more importantly you all......thank you for your prayers..
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/08/03 09:51 PM
Hi all,

Petvet...

You got your car impounded? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

How long had it been since your license expired?

Wow, I guess you were having a bad day to say the least.

What concert, and who were you going to see?

I'll bet that was some night... glad you got your car back.

I'm not ready to get hitched at the moment... I like being single. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

mommax8...

It sound like you have a very nice house, and it's good that you have family with you.

If it makes you feel any better (and it probably won't), I don't know one couple who ended up richer than what they already were prior to their marriage breaking up.

When your in the middle of a "D" both parties ususally take a financial hit.

It's emotionally draining as well as financially... as time goes on it does get better.

Well I hope everyone has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/09/03 02:53 AM
Petvet - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me: I missed the concert on Saturday because I came across a police road block and discovered that my license had expired; well, to make a long story short, my car was impounded. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Does this mean YOU discovered your license had expired (didn't you have a birthday not that long ago?) or do you mean the POLICE discovered it? I hope your buddy wasn't in the car with you, that would have made it worse -- at the least, a very memorable date, LOL. Although I have a feeling that's not the way you'd want your date to be memorable <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 05/09/03 04:40 PM
Hi Guys and Gals..........

Looks like everyone is doing pretty good..

Petvet - Sorry to see the car incident happen, I'm sure thats no fun, but hey life goes on just move with it.

Avondale - Glad to see you're coming along and dealing with things one day at a time. There is sunshine at the end of the storm. The tornado's hit around me, no damage, but in my old neighborhood 25 miles away I heard it was in shambles not much left.

Wallace - Looks like things are going good between you and your lady friend, I think your relationship is so hot, I could probably cook a roast if you two stood by it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...

Blessings to everyone else!

Me: I haven't posted lately, my circumstance is too negative right now to help anybody lots of drama. I filed my petition for a final child support arrearage adjustment and my exw filed a counter-suit for Contempt of Court for a ($30.00 re-imbursement medical bill for YD) exw is also seeking my arrest and requested a trial and is trying to make me travel 1,200 miles to court over this when in the past it's been by telephone. She's trying to get me there to try to embarrass me in the courtroom then she thinks they're going to haul me off jail immediately. As I said it's been her burning desire to get me in the courtroom, some fantasy of hers.

What I filed was to have the court adjust the arrearage according to my actual dollars earned during the time I was unemployed and the time I started working, that simple, that's the most honest request ever. I didn't even need her involvement, this was about me.

In fact I became unemployed due to exw's multiple affairs because of the emotional affect it had on me.

She has now decided to escalate a court war that is unbelievable. Exw made 8 allegations that I have to defend myself on that has nothing to do with child support. But it's an attempt to try to make me look like this unresponsible deadbeat father. This is unreal....I'll have my court date as soon as I send in my final papers next week it should occur sometime here in May, the court is waiting on me. I wish I could have afforded an Attorney from the start, but who would have thought a person would continually lie and make things up. This court session I'm exposing exw for all she's done and doing.

The Good point - I have 370 days left, almost inside 1 year now before I'm all done with this mess. I also discovered the arrearage date the court set as default and the arrearage date filed by exw are different, to my favor they're 8 months apart, therefore if they uphold the date exw filed she loses $5,000 and I pay $300 for the remainder of arrearages and I'm done...

Please really pray for me, this a real attack of the enemy trying to accuse me falsely and trying to keep me in financial bondage and keep its hold on me trying to put me in jail and I'm not some bad guy, that I know. I don't know why this evil thing is fighting me harder and harder as I get closer to the end.

Take Care
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 05/10/03 05:01 AM
Hi All,

The weekend is upon us again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC

I'm sorry to hear about your recent problems. I will be praying for you, let us know when your court date will be. If you can't afford an attorney, the Lord has already appointed Himself for you, so be encouraged.

I was just thinking, where did you guys find these wives, then I remembered, probably the same dirt pile we found our husbands. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Petvet

My H left around the time my license expired as well. When your mind is preoccupied with mess, it's hard to concentrate. The police didn't stop me, but I was going to open a new account at the bank and discovered my license had been expired for weeks. I'm just glad I didn't have to take another test. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Why is your buddy still having a problem with your age? Could she be getting heat from friends and relatives? This is not good!

Wallace

I can't believe you don't see a problem yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Aren't there any bells going off yet? It doesn't appear she is respecting your wishes as far as the marriage conversation. It sounds like a case of, "I want what I want when I want it." I could be wrong, but not usually. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale

I'm glad you had a great time at the wedding. If the OW lives in California, how often could they see each other? Wait until they have a chance to be with each other in NY, they'll find out their not for each other. I think the more time WS spend with the OM or OW, the romance or fantasy ends sooner.

Mommax8

Glad to hear you have a lot of support. Now concentrate on becoming a better you.

Me

I'm doing the Revlon Run Walk this weekend, I've been doing it for 5 years and love it.

Have a Great Weekend,
God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/09/03 10:33 PM
Hi All,

Sorry I'm so late in posting... there is a big shake-down going on at work... and I may be unemployed on Monday... it has not been a good year for the Company I work for so far this year... so I may be in the soup line on Monday.

Say prayers for me everyone... this is really the last thing I need to have happen at the moment.

EC...

She is trying to bring up 8 charges on you?

What are they?

Your exW is unbelievable... she is in about the same league as mine, from what I'm hearing.

I was feeling the very same way you are right now about not posting.

I didn't want to post... because of all the negative garbage that I had going on in my life (I still do but I find that it helps to air it out and get other opinions). The negativety will just bring you down... if you let it. You have to air it out or it will start to consume you.

keep posting... no matter what... it does help and we are here for you.

You as well as all of us are in my prayers.

relady...

Oh I have bells going off all over the place... I'm just wearing ear plugs at the moment... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> j/k

You all make me laugh when you post some of the things that you do... and that is a good thing.

I think we did all marry the same type of dirt bags at about the same time... LOL.

Good luck on your run... I run/walk and work out too... it's good for the brain and the cardiovascular system.

avondale...

It is quite amazing what we start to let go (license, and who knows what else) when we are caught up in all the garbage.

At least you caught yours in time.

mommax8...

How are you holding up?

I know this has been hard on you. It's hard on all of us... you make the best judgements that you can and adjust accordingly.

Keep us up to date with how your holding up... this is one of the hardest things you will ever go through in your life... my prayers are with you and your children.

Petvet...

Are you legal now?

avondale brought up a good quetion... did this happen when you were with your buddy? Boy, I hope not... say it didn't happen with your buddy there.

Well I hope everyone has a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/10/03 10:47 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: Ha ha ha! Yes, I am a legal driving citizen now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm trying to figure out how to explain all this to the judge later this month. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I will pray for you concerning your job situation.

Avondale: No, buddy was not in the car with me. I was very embarras. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Do you have plans for the summer?

EC: What kind of woman is your exw? She is damn near crazy.

Mommax8: I'm glad to hear that you have a support system in place. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Relady: Do you exercise?

Oh! The concert was a three day festival of acts ranging from gospel to rock. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

And I'm gone.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/10/03 02:36 PM
EC - I wondered if the reason you hadn't posted was due to negative circumstances. Don't let that keep you from finding support, commiseration, and encouragement from us. We may not provide all three all the time, but you know we care for you and want God's best for your life! I agree with you, it does seem like an attack and we can certainly stand with you.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't know why this evil thing is fighting me harder and harder as I get closer to the end. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The answer is because you've become victorious through this horrible situation and the enemy does NOT want you to have a positive testimony. Hang in there!

Relady - How long is the Revlon Run/Walk? I usually do 3-4 miles a day, and on Saturdays I walk 5-7 miles with a Walk Club at a local park. I haven't done an "event" run/walk yet though. Sounds like fun!

Mommax8 - Don't pay any attention to Petvet's smiley icons. We've been trying to teach him how to use them for the last year, but he hasn't quite got it down yet. I'm sure he didn't mean to do a <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> at the end of his last statement to you. It was probably supposed to be a <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace- I hope you don't lose your job; you're in my prayers. At one time you had talked about going back into business yourself, as you had done previously. Is this anything worth considering?

Petvet - So how many dates have you been on with your buddy? What does your son think of her, or have they not met yet? What does she think of him? Does your EXW know? (I only ask this last question because I've seen on other threads that can sometimes pose another set of problems.)

Me- My summer plans consist of keeping you guys out of trouble with your "buddies" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL. Oh, and my year of legal separation will be July 7, so only God knows what my summer will entail. Of course, I'll keep y'all posted. All the more reason for nobody to abandon this Tough Love ship yet, because some of us aren't done!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/11/03 10:56 AM
Hi moms!

I wish the moms on this htread a Happy Mother's Day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale: I get to your questions later. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/13/03 01:55 PM
Hi All,

Just thought I would drop a quick line.

I got past the first round cut at work... it's still going though.

I hope all the Mom's out there had a good Mother's day.

I'll check back later on.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/13/03 07:39 PM
Wallace,
That's great news! What's next for you at work then? Is there some type of schedule or something that will give you an idea of their business plan / time frame?

Where is everyone these days?!?!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 05/13/03 07:48 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a great Mothers' Day. I had a wonderful day. My Son gave me a Sony Cybershot digital camera and it took me most of the day to learn how to use it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I did the Revlon Run/Walk on Saturday. It was 3.5 miles. Everything was wonderful. Gladys Knight did the after walk concert. Last year it was Kenny Loggins. It's always wonderful.

Avondale

I'm impressed. Maybe one day, I'll get around to walking, I can't even make it to the gym on a consistent basis.

Question: What is the difference between a Legal separation and a divorce as far as responsibility? It's still through the courts right? In some states you have to do that before you can divorce, right<

Wallace

You can ignore those bells if you want to. One day you'll look up and they'll be crashing down around your head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Of course, we'll be here to pick up the pieces. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I've been praying for your job as well.

Petvet

I don't exercise as often as I should, however; I still am very cautious about what I eat.
What did you do for your 'buddy' for Mothers' Day?

Mommax8

How are you and how are things going?

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/16/03 03:29 AM
Hey Everyone,

I'm back... my computer was down... and it was pretty heavy duty at work this week so I haven't been able to post for the last several days.

Brief update... I didn't get laid off... I made the cut (whew)!

Bad news is, is that my son was laid of from his job yesterday at the place that he worked. Here I was worroed about getting laid off and I didn't, on the other hand my son felt that his job was so secure... funny how things work.

He is now looking for a new job... th Company that laid him off, said they are going to bring him back in about a month. I told him to not Bank on that, and just look for a new job... even if they hire him back.

avondale...

I'm still here... just no real way to get in touch. How have you been doing this week, and how was your Mother's Day?

relady...

Guess who is looking at Bridal Gowns? I'm not... but someone else is... LOL.

I hear very loud noises ringing in my head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet, EC, mommax8, and everyone else

Let us know how you are doing when you get a chance.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/16/03 11:46 AM
Wallace
Thank you for keeping this thread from the second page, LOL. Glad you made "the cut" at work and sorry about your son. At his age it's not as worrisome (unless he has a family, mortgage, etc...) - he'll probably bounce back easily.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Guess who is looking at Bridal Gowns? I'm not... but someone else is... LOL.

I hear very loud noises ringing in my head.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hearing the noises ringing in your head is only part of the solution! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Do you want us to come over and hit you up on side of the head with a 2x4? Then you'll be hearing noises outside of your head too. You'd better do something QUICK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> And by "do something" I DO NOT mean get married! Her agenda is pretty clear, is yours as clear as hers is?

EC - I'm concerned about you, and where you left off in your last post. Give us an update.

Hope everyone else has a great weekend.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/16/03 06:42 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

I don't need any 2x4 in the back of my head... LOL... not yet anyway. I told her to look all she wants... I'm not getting married for at least a year.

She is looking at houses too... she is on a mission!

I think my son should rebound back into the job market pretty quick... but I know it's starting to get pretty rough out there... hopefully we will have a turn around soon.

I would of posted more... but with everything going on... I couldn't with my computer being down and all at home and everything going on at work.

The major part of the storm has blown over for now... but we will see what tomorrow brings

Petvet...

You have been awful quiet here lately... is your buddy taking up a lot of your time?

relady...

Glad to hear that your walk/run went well. Did you go to the concert afterwards... I can't recall if you said you di or you didn't.

mommax8...

I saw your thread and I think you need to allow your "H" to begin getting help for himself first, before you allow him back in the house. Otherwise you may find yourself right back where you are now. it gets a lot harder on you... the more times you go through it.

EC, WGTT, and everybody else...

I hope your day and your week has been going well.

Well, everyone have a good weekend and don't let all of this work on you over the weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 05/16/03 07:34 PM
hi all,

Yes, I do agree that I should make sure he gets his act together completely and totally before I even consider him ever coming back into our lives, I am just feeling very overwhelmed and I need a break and my parent's are the type that just say "get over it, you have to knock this off, you need to get over this and think of your kids." Well, I don't think anyone could say I am not thinking of my kids because my children are first in my life and I am thinking about them, and their future relationship with their father.

I can see myself building new resentments everyday towards him and I am praying to God to help me forgive him I guess its that seventy times seventy. I have to forgive 490 times a day and so on and so on. I just hope I have sanity left when I get through this.

Thank you all for your support and hope you all have a great weekend.
Posted By: AgainstTheWind Re: Tough Love - 05/18/03 05:09 AM
Been away from here a long time. Havent read the previous stuff. Whats going on with the job. Heck, must be something in the water!!!

Where I work will be closing/rearraging the end of this month & they told me 5/31 will be my last day!!! So much politics you could cut it with a knife!! And who were they blaming for dumb stuff?? meeee. Im glad to be gone from there. So Im hitting the interview tour again. Some rejections, some waiting. I hope I get this latest one as a secretary in a hospital unit. Everything would come together expreience & education wise. Ive only been in this last one since December. But its been a HELLUVA two years!! Him filing, dismissing, being home 1 yr for all wrong reasons, still in affair. Me getting sick, possibility of cancer with surgery (not cancer TG), him filing again!! Left the job where me, ex-H & OW worked. Got job at University. There 1 yr, after surgery boss a witch, I quit. Got job in current place (#2). Now this is ending. I,m changing jobs for the 3rd time in two years! That, Divorce & major surgery!!!! AARGH!! Enough already!!

I hope your son finds something even better, soon and wish you stability/security in your job!

CLG.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/19/03 12:55 PM
Hi all! Real Funny, Wallace! NOOOOO my buddy has not been taking up alot of my time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Shame on you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace: I'm glad to hear that you were not laid off, but if I were you, I would still be searching for Plan A in case the dreaded day comes. Is the economy bad where you live?

Avondale: A separation if long live is basically the same as a divorce except you are still married and he is entitled to part of your assets. I would find out what his plans are? You have been in limbo long enough.

Relady:I hope you are doing well.

Me: I have been busy. Everytime I try to get on the thread, I forget to follow up. It has nothing to do with my pal. Absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 05/19/03 02:00 PM
Hi Guys and Gals!

Nothing new happening except filed my final papers for the [last] CS adjustment, what an ordeal!...Anyway I'm now 360 days from all of it ending, now inside 1 year. Then in Feb 2004 in 8 months, I'll be filing again for YD to be emancipated.

It's amazing the illusion exw had when she had her affairs and filed for DV though if as soon as she did it she would be done with it all, yet we're on 3 years going on 4 with all this mess.

What's amazing is how much my exw is so much like Judas in the bible and her whole motive is money, Judas was the betrayer of Jesus. First he plotted while with Jesus pretending to be friend yet all the while despised him, then mediatated on how much he could get when he betrays him, then he acted out the act of betrayal with a kiss and jumpped him, then had Jesus arrested, then Jesus was sent to trial and accused falsely, then was killed by the corrupt legal system, yet the devil was behind it all.

My exw has taken me through every step of this process but now it's resurrection time, I'm in a rebirth of being loosed from the betrayer. The legal system is always the betrayers final end.

You must understand that you were thrown into a battle you didn't ask for and it's not your fault they cheated and lied, it's all on the betrayer. Rid yourself from inward false accusation and inward fault finding, you'll never be perfect.Rid yourself of bowing down to the enemy's daily beatdowns "you should have done better". It's in past now, nothing you can do but live and maxumize this day you're living in and have good days ahead. Stop beating yourself up you want to be loved by somebody that don't love you. Stop afflicting yourself that you're ugly, I'm sure 10 people of the opposite think you're the best looking thing ever, they just haven't told you, but don't go looking to be validated, get [Confidence] in yourself that you know you're good looking {Change the inward picture of yourself} Think about how do you view and display yourself in private and in public? Is that the image you want or something different? it's up to you.

Now one last comment - The people who are the BS go through things that sometimes you feel embarrassed or ashamed and think you're weird or have some deep problem but in fact you're just like everyone else and that is in the area of your sexuality now that you're single abruptly. Now it's time to face your sexual side, it can't be expressed anymore, you're single. Now what do you in the process of this lust that you have for your mate that's left you and control those sexual fantasy's that are allowed to be expressed in a marriage?? You're now forced to turn off your sexual sensitivity. Do you have one night stands to alieviate the struggle? No. Is porn the answer?No, is mastrubation the answer?No. Sexual counterfiet toys? No..All these things rob your most inner self......The answer is you must become whole again and heal, you may feel dirty in the process but you will come clean when you confess your struggle unto the Lord. When that happens you become that virgin all over again whether male or female and when Mr or Miss right comes along, you won't marry out of lust or needing sex badly, but from a true friendship of love and patience, somebody adding to your joy.

Take Care.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/19/03 03:01 PM
Hi All,

Well as usual, the weekend shot right past me like a bolt of lightning.

Memorial Day weekend is coming... does anyone have any plans made for this coming weekend?

mommax8...

Through all the trials and tribulations that I have gone through concernning my exW and the loss of my marriage. The single biggest thing that I have yet to overcome and complete... is the act of forgiveness.

It is something that I try to work on and struggle with everyday. To heal completely I must be able to follow through with forgiving her. It's a very tough thing to do especially when they are still giving you the business. But in time and with the Lord's help... I will find a way to forgive my exW.

In your thread... you had a lot going on with a lot of ultimatums flying around and decisions to make. What did you do. or are you still working on it?

ATW...

It has been awhile since we have heard from you... in fact, "Free" was asking about you just a couple of weeks ago.

I'm out here in Denver, and for some of us... the economy is really going in the tank. Prices and taxes are going up... wages are being cut, jobs being lost. I have seen it a lot better... I have also seen it a lot worse. All you can do is just try to do your best and hope you get through it.

You have had a pretty wild ride these last couple of years. They say (whoever "THEY" are) that everything comes in threes. It appears that you have already had your set of three... maybe things will start settling down now.

I'll pray that you find a good job, as well as peace and good health in your life.

Keep us informed of how you are making out whenever you can.

Petvet...

LOL... I had to ask the $64,000.00 question. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The reason why I asked... is my G/F is taking up a good chunk of my time (which isn't really a bad thing) I just thought you might be following a real close second in your situation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now that your street legal and all... I just figured you were spending more time with your buddy... LOL

Glad to hear that everything is going well for you... keep up the good work.

EC...

It's good to hear that your on the final leg of this ordeal.

I liked the Judas analogy... my exW was acting the very same way Judas did as well. I think many WSs act like Judas... more than we care to imagine.

I've cleared out everything except the CS issue myself. The State sent my exW basically a demand for payments. So hopefully this will straighten itself out in the not too distant future.

avondale, relady and everyone else...

Hope your weekend was good and that you have a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/19/03 09:15 PM
Wow, we go days without a familiar face and then we get three posts in one morning!

Petvet - I don't feel I'm in limbo, I feel pretty confident that I'm where I'm supposed to be. Our legal separation is technically "up" in July but I am not going to initiate anything (at that point, yet). I don't want to be the one "responsible" for dissolving the marriage. We have legal papers drawn up already, though, in case he is the one to initiate the D. It was his idea, and I feel they are fair.

EC - Great to hear from you - you made up for lost words in your last post! I agree with all you said. It seems to me you should write a book, or at least preach a sermon, your points were well taken and encouraging.

Wallace - I think Petvet is running a close second to you in regards to time spent, even if he won't admit it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> If you'd slow down, maybe he would too.

Me - Not much new going on here, except for the fact I ate an entire Pepperidge Farm cake yesterday. Don't know why; I wasn't depressed, I just didn't stop myself. So I guess I'll have to do double duty at the gym this week, LOL.

Relady -Have you (or anyone else) heard from your H lately? Whatever happened after he contacted your pastor?

Everyone else - Have a great week.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/20/03 07:15 PM
Hi All,

Nothing really new so far today... just working (thankfully).

avondale...

You have to give me credit... I know I'm out of control and I admit it... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Of course I'm not so sure, I'm the one out of control in my situation as of yet. I'm just along for the ride at the moment... watching and keeping a close eye on it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have to agree with you... I think Petvet's situation is just starting to get rolling. He will be where I am at in the not too distant future... LOL... IMHO.

I hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/22/03 03:58 AM
Hi all:

EC: I guess a this point all you can do is count down the time remaining on your CS. It's sad that you have to go through all this. Just do the best you can do deal with it for the time being.

Avondale: PEPPERILL CAKE: What type? I use to love the coconut cakes. If you are satisfied with your situation at present, then I can only support you. You know where your comfort zone is what you need to do.

Wallace: Have your son found another job? You seem to be doing well.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/22/03 02:22 PM
Hi All,

Petvet...

For the moment... everything seems to be falling into place. But I've said this before... and I get real nervous when everything starts going smoothly. Most of the time... something comes along to jerk it all up. Hopefully everything will stay the course.

My son has not found another job yet... he is still looking... at what we are not sure. There isn't that much out there in this area right now. He is an IT engineer, and in this area the market is saturated with them.

My YD just finished her Junior year at high school... and she is out pounding the pavement as well for a summer job.

Hopefully they will both find something soon.

You sound like things are going well.

Do you have any plans for this Memorial Day weekend?

Hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 05/23/03 02:41 PM
Hi everyone,

I don't get a chance to write as often as I would like. I am working on getting my own computer at home and until then I have to just try at work. I only can work Wed-Fri now which has me even more financially strapped so it is very difficult.

Avondale

In reply to my last thread, I understand what you are saying as far as the father daughter relationship. I am trying very hard to make things work but I just have given it over to God because I am worried about the stress on my parent's too. I feel like such a burden in their life right now and that I have taken their freedom away. They feel like they have to be there for me every minute and I keep telling them I can do it, if I need your help I will ask but please don't revolve your life around me and the kids you need to have your own life.

I spoke to my stbxh last night after my daughter's graduation, in which he ended up not attending. He is currently in an outpatient intensive treatment program which is good, but she really would of loved him to be there.

In our conversation last night I told him that I knew that I had my part in this marriage that contributed to our problems as well and that there were alot of mistakes that I made and that I would do different, but then I would not be able to be growing as much as I am. I couldn't believe it but I asked him for forgiveness and told him I was sorry for what I did and let go of what I was holding onto and that was guilt too.

It is now his turn and he has come halfway but not all the way there. We are suppose to go to the marriagebuilders weekend in Orlando in September, he is willing to do what ever it takes to get our family back together, but I am very skeptical, I am trying to take things very slow.
He still wants to take our annual family trip, which is scheduled for June 21 10 days to the beach in which the kids and I are still planning on doing because it is already paid for, but he wants to come along as well. We camp at the beach and do nothing else but swim, eat and sleep. My heart wants to pretend for 10 days, but my brain is telling me I am an idiot. Some feedback needed please.

His plans for after that would be to move back to the town we live in, get a job that would not interfere with his disability income which means he can only make $800 per month on top of his $600 he is getting doesn't leave much for child support, but he says he will give it all too me. The proof will be in the pudding I guess.

I have a weekend trip to WV with my dad and 4 of the kids this weekend, so hopefully we will have a heart to heart on the way down while the kids are sleeping. I know I am bouncing all over the place I just have so much going on that I am trying to get everything down while I have the opportunity to write.

As far as my kids are concerned, we are building a stronger relationship everyday....they are starting to relax some, they are really getting tired of talking to their Dad twice a week though and I don't know what is up with that, they say "Oh I will talk the next time he calls, I don't have anything new"?????????? Family counseling begins June 2, so that may help....I feel like I am being selfish worrying about me and my parent's problems when I should just focus on my kids and their needs and just let everything else just fall where it may.......Well I hope you don't think I have lost it....I really have a sense of peace but just alot of choices that I think I have to make.....I may just be creating the stress on myself because I don't know any different for the last 16years so to relax would not be the norm......I just don't know

Everyone else

I wish you all well and a good memorial day weekend, as you can read in my response to Avondale I thinking too much and my brain is in overdrive..... I know this is a process we all go through and you all have been through it and still going through it....I am greatful to have all of you to help me....thank you
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/24/03 05:41 AM
Mx8 - Thanks for the update. Here's some of my comments but hopefully you'll hear from others:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I spoke to my stbxh last night after my daughter's graduation, in which he ended up not attending. He is currently in an outpatient intensive treatment program which is good, but she really would of loved him to be there. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it is GREAT that he is in an outpatient program; hopefully your daughter understands the need for it and won't hold onto any hurt by his not attending.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He still wants to take our annual family trip, which is scheduled for June 21 10 days to the beach in which the kids and I are still planning on doing because it is already paid for, but he wants to come along as well. We camp at the beach and do nothing else but swim, eat and sleep. My heart wants to pretend for 10 days, but my brain is telling me I am an idiot. Some feedback needed please. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not sure how you'd work it out, but I would hope he wouldn't attend. Did (or will) he pay for any of it? If not, then I would say take a break from his personal drama and go to the beach without him. However, if he has a financial stake in the vacation, I'm not sure how you could exclude him.

I think it is very good that he has plans for work, moving, etc....and as you say, the proof is in the pudding. See what he follows through with. It's also good that you may have an opportunity to speak with your dad while you're going to WV; try to be open about your feelings and wanting your parents to have their own lives.

It seems very normal and healthy that the bonds between you and your kids are getting stronger, and they're starting to relax. Will your H be at family counseling next month?? Or is it just you and/or the kids? Is this something that is court-mandated?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I feel like I am being selfish worrying about me and my parent's problems when I should just focus on my kids and their needs and just let everything else just fall where it may
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is NOT selfish. You are exactly right, you have a lot on your plate, a lot of things to consider, a lot of different scenarios to work through. One thing I know, when you've been in a situation such as yours, it is VERY difficult to see (understand) what is "normal" because your starting point to gauge normality is "skewed" (off)to begin with. You are slowly finding that, and it should become easier to make decisions and work through things as time goes on. Besides, a better YOU will ultimately result in better kids <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope everyone has a good weekend.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 05/23/03 06:41 PM
Hi everyone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Have a happy Memorial Day Weekend!

Just a quick update as I havn't been on the boards much.

WH has let go of his apartment and is taking steps to either sell (basically give away) our business in his location or shut it down and move all the stuff to Florida. We will be opening another business here as our current supplier has really let us down and caused all kinds of stress and problems. I have enough of those on my own !! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

WH has been acting more responsibly and working on repaying the debts that were incurred where he is for various and sundry reasons. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

When he gets here, I will give a letter that Steve Harley and I have gone over basically saying that in order for me to (want to) work on our M, he must be in recovery. If he does seek recovery, working on our M will take a back burner for a while till his head is in a better place.

I feel really good about myself and where I am going. There is still a lot of S**T that has to be gone thru from the fiasco but at least new S**T is not comming up. (Financial and business wise) The mentor program that I'm in is FANTASTIC. It's the best thing I could have done for me. No matter what happens with my M, I will be OK, no I will be G-R-E-A-T! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

My time has been taken up with working out problems from our supplier, being a Mom, and sailing - actually racing. It feels sooooooooooo relaxing to be out on the boat even though there is a lot to do racing. It is so much fun.

There are 2 women that I mentor right now & one is a former OW. Very interesting. We were both having trouble in our M's with husbands who drank / drugs. She took the route of having an A with a MM and even moved away for a year to be near him. Guess what, he separted but did not get DV, she was a secret the whole time and here she thought she had found the love of her life.
She moved back to Florida and is trying now to live a different life. She has seen me grow and the peace I have about myself and says she wants that. I dealt with my pain, she is only just beginning. In a way it's a blessing, because I hear her justification and thought process and I thank God that I din't take the same route as she did.

Avondale I will be in Hatteras, NC from June 13-20th for a family reunion. You mentioned going to the coast there - any chance you will be nearby in that time frame? If so, it would be great to meet you in person.

Momma I just skim thur posts now and then but it sounds like your dealing with a drug / alcohol problem. Been there, done that, doing that. I have been in AA myself for almost 11 years and know how great people are in recovery - those who really work it anyway. I also know the heartache of those who don't get it. Hopefully you are in Alanon - that has been my saving grace, that and my faith in the Lord.

Wallace What's this about wedding bells??? Did I read correctly or was that a joke ??? (Just kidding) Good thing the Ladies here are keeping you straight !!!!

Everyone else - Hope you are doing well and have a great weekend!

D.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 05/23/03 07:11 PM
Momma

I went back and read your latest post & here's my take on the situation. (Not an uneducated one either)

-------
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> spoke to my stbxh last night after my daughter's graduation, in which he ended up not attending. He is currently in an outpatient intensive treatment program which is good, but she really would of loved him to be there. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course your D would have loved for her Dad to be there but for right now, the best thing for him is to concentrate on his recovery. If you can let go of any expectations for right now for him, it will be easier on you. He has to learn to live life a nwe way and that takes a lot of effort - mentally and physically. It can take a while to begin to think as a "normal" human being.

Realistically too, the 2 of you won't be able to really work on your M until he is grounded in recovery. Steve Harley at one point had owned 10 treatment Centers and is very intuned with the problems of recovery and marriages. In my sessions with Steve, we basically agree that until WH commits to recovery, then there is NO working on our M. It is better in Steve's opinion to be supportive and caring, a safe place for WH to come home to. That it's better if we live together while he is going thru recovery. It creates a sort of bond. Based on my own experience, I agee with Steve.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am trying to take things very slow.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is good, watch his actions not just his words.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is now his turn and he has come halfway but not all the way there. We are suppose to go to the marriagebuilders weekend in Orlando in September, he is willing to do what ever it takes to get our family back together, but I am very skeptical, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't expect things to happen fast, allow time for recovery, don't get discouraged. Go to alanon. That's great that he is willing to do what it takes. I don't blame you for being skeptical - I would be and am skeptical too. Just watch your expectations and his actions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He still wants to take our family trip ...... My heart wants to pretend for 10 days, but my brain is telling me I am an idiot. Some feedback needed please.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It sounds like a good idea to me. Sounds like he is reaching out and it would be a time to bond. Again, just watch your expectations. (I know I know I know - that is hard to do but that's what Alanon is for) Do you think I am a big fan of Alanon? It took me 17 years to really get that program and could kick myself for not doing if before!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> His plans for after that would be to move back to the town we live in, get a job that would not interfere with his disability income which means he can only make $800 per month on top of his $600 he is getting doesn't leave much for child support, but he says he will give it all too me. The proof will be in the pudding I guess.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actions not words. He is headed in the right direction. Give him time to recover and work thru whatever he needs to. Your patience at this stage will pay off a thousand fold. Actions not words.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well I hope you don't think I have lost it....I really have a sense of peace but just alot of choices that I think I have to make.....I
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Most people who have not dealt with these issues would probably think it's nuts. You sound like you are doing remarkable. I only have 3 kids and my OS is 21 & on his own at college.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> may just be creating the stress on myself because I don't know any different for the last 16years so to relax would not be the norm......I just don't know
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thats what Alanon is for....it can change your life. Monday night I went to an alanon meeting and just the feeling that I got when I walked into the room would have been good enough for me. There is love and concern and caring. Alanon is a part of my family. I thank God every day for BrambleRose (who posts on GQ) who showed me by example what alanon can do for a person.

Blessings,

D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/23/03 09:05 PM
Hi all,

Just thought I would drop in very quickly... I'm at work and I'm winding down for the day and getting ready for the 3 day weekend.

mommax8...

Ditto to what avondale and WGTT has put forth.

Your "H" seems to be heading in the right direction... but you need to make sure that he is going to follow through all the way and stick with it before you should make any type of a commitment concerning getting together with your "H" on anything long term.

Hope your trip with your father goes well... it will be a good time to open up and get right to the core of everything that is going on, and open up and tell him just exactly what your feeling about the whole situation.

avondale...

What do you have planned for this weekend, anything special?

Have you heard from relady via email or anything for that matter?

WGTT...

It's good to hear from you... it's been a little while.

I'm glad things are leveling out for you, and your feeling that everything is moving in a positive direction.

Well I just got handed a project that I have to finish up before I leave tonight, so everyone have a good Memorial Day weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/25/03 11:05 AM
WGTT - Good to hear from you! The beach we go to is Ocean Drive (North Myrtle Beach). It's pretty far from where you're going to be, probably about 6+ hours. Otherwise, you're right, it WOULD be fun to meet! If they ever have one of those MB reunions for those of us in the southern USA, I'd consider going. Until then, we'll have to wait until Petvet or Wallace tie the knot <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace - I heard from relady; she's regrouping a little bit, and had hurt her shoulder too (so wasn't at computer for a period of time). Hopefully she'll be posting here soon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Me - This has been a rough weekend. I had to have our family dog (who's been the only one remaining at home since everyone left last summer) put to sleep, and I'm feeling guilt about doing it even though she was suffering (which I feel guilty about too). To make it worse, I had to ask WH to go by the house and take her to the vet. She was a big dog and although she lost a lot of weight recently, I couldn't carry her to the car (physically and emotionally). I hated asking a favor after what he has done, but it did allow him a chance to say "goodbye" to the dog too. So I'm having to make another adjustment, and the simple fact is that it's lonelier than ever here. I'm trying to stay busy but there is only so much "busy work" one can handle, ya know?

At least I have tomorrow off from work.

<small>[ May 25, 2003, 06:07 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/26/03 06:45 PM
Hi all! I hope everyone is having a wonderful Memorial Day.

Mommax8: It seems that your H is headed in the right direction. Of course, I would wait to see how he does in the long run before breaking out the champagne. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Avondale: God Bless You! I know the lonely feeling and you must take steps to plan your weekends whereby you are not home alone. Even though things may get above your budget, you may have to take short trips in order to keep your sanity. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> As far your dog is concern, I know the feeling there as well. Having to euthanize a pet is one of the worst things a pet has to do because you feel as though you have let the pet down or gave up on him or her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Please take care of yourself.

WGTT: There is nothing like a visit to the blue waters to sooth the spirits. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace: Yes, I know the feeling when it comes to two steps forward ten steps back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Me: Things are going OK. I just got my D papers last week after three months, so now I am trying to change alot of paperwork to just me instead of us. Question? Buddy has a daughter who likes to play with my kid. Well, apparently kid's mom has been drilling him on what's going on in my camp. How would you recommend that I head off the stampede before it gets to me. Kid is running off at the mouth saying all sorts of things. What can I do? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

And I'm gone.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/27/03 12:55 AM
Petvet ,
Thanks for the encouragement. And I see you had a great day with all the smiley faces, LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As for your predicament, Wallace might be a better source of guidance, or maybe you should post it on another thread. I know you're kind of in the middle, not wanting to pressure your son to "keep secrets" but at the same time, wanting privacy. Are you thinking you should just tell your exw and head it off that way? After all, she is the one who wanted "separate lives". You can say that you were honorable and didn't see your buddy until you were single again. Do you have concerns about what your exw might say, or she may act inappropriately? Hopefully she will also not want to put your son in the middle. But have you ever grilled him about his mom's activities, especially before divorce??
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/27/03 04:28 PM
Hi All,

Well that was the fastest three days I've seen go by in quite awhile.

avondale...

I'm so sorry to hear about you having to put your dog down. I've had to do it twice and my G/F had to do it back in January of this year. It really bothered her... in fact it still does to some degree.
Putting her dog down was harder for her than selling her house, moving, and in some ways... I think it bothered her more than loosing her marriage... she really is an animal lover.

(((((((( avondale)))))))))

It's bad enough with everything going on and all the changes that are happening... and then more has to be added to it. My prayers are with you avondale... it is a rollercoaster ride sometimes, and sometimes it's not a very enjoyable ride as you can see... hang in there... it will get better, your just probably wondering when.

Petvet...

Did I read that post of yours right?

Your buddy is grilling your son about what is going on in your camp?

If that's the case... I'm seeing red flags fly all over the place.

Hopefully that is not the case. If it is... I would sit her down and ask her why she is doing this. You need to air this out right away and get it stopped.

Your budddy should be coming to you with any questions she has concerning your relationship with her.

I'm seeing red flags big time... hopefully I read that wrong.

Everyone else... I hope you all had a good Memorial day weekend and you all have a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/27/03 04:31 PM
WOW!!!

I am ought of control today... my computer and it's load times are just as out of control.

It's probably both of us...LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So much for Tuesdays... even though it feels like a Monday.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ May 27, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/27/03 04:32 PM
Whoops... I'm out of practice after three days... LOL.

Double posting... I haven't done that in a while.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ May 27, 2003, 11:46 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/27/03 06:50 PM
Wallace,
Thanks for the ((avondale)). I have cried more over the dog than I did about my M, I suppose because the dog was the last one left, and we really bonded after H moved out. Plus I had started seeing the writing on the wall with my M so I had a longer period of time to assimilate the separation.

I think you read Petvet's post wrong. I did at first too! What I THINK he's saying is that HIS son's mom (his exw) is grilling their son about things going on, and since son is friends with buddy's daughter, there are things of that nature to report, and son is free with the info. I hope you can give him some guidance.

Oh, and you can always delete and edit one of your posts, and no one would ever have to know about the double, LOL Or was it a triple???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ May 27, 2003, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/27/03 08:20 PM
Thank you avondale,

By golly it was a triple post!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I just thought I double posted... and when you mentioned a triple post... I went up and looked and there it was... a triple post...LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Anyway... I think you and my G/F have and are going through the same thing concerning the attachment with the dog.

When she was going through all the wonderfulness... she became very attached to her dog. I am going to say... because it was one of the only living things she felt comfortable with and she knew she could trust... she didn't have to worry about being betrayed by her friend and her companion. Her dog was always there to help comfort her.

It sounds like your dog was a very secure source of comfort to you as well.

Have you thought about getting another dog?

Sometimes that helps ease the pain and makes the change a little less painful.

It's just a thought... and I'm probably way off base... kind of like my posting capabilities today.

I went back and reread Petvet's post and it does sound like it's the exW grilling her son... so that being said... I'll flip to this.

Petvet...

What I did in my house concerning my children keeping our private affairs private... was the following.

I sat them all down and had a heart to heart with them... telling them that my personal life was not to be discussed outside of our home. That if anyone wanted to know what I was doing... they could ask me directly.

They are all old enough to understand that aspect of it... so it was an easy do.

I don't know how old your son is Petvet... but if you can explain to him in a kind and loving manner... and still let him know that your personal life is not to be discussed outside of your home... and give him the reasons why, so he understands the importance of it... hopefully that should take care of it.

There is no guarantee that it will stop... but it's a start.

relady...

I hope your doing better... get back to us when you can... we miss your wisdom and your wit.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 05/28/03 12:05 AM
Hey All,

I hope everyone had a great weekend.

Believe it or not, I have been trying to post all day. This has been a day from you know where. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Everybody wants to close escrow at the end of the month, however; no one wanted to work all day on Friday! Go figure!

I haven't posted much lately, there was a problem with my shoulder. I think it was because I've been doing a lot of computer work and it's a laptop and not really ergonomically correct.

I spent the holiday in San Diego and found it to be very peaceful. Had an opportunity to clear my head and refocus my thoughts.

Petvet

It is so true. It's necessary to take short trips just to relax and get away from those things that weigh us down, namely WS's.

Now, Why would your 'buddy' be asking her kid for information. Don't you make it readily available to her during your conversations? OH NO, NOT ANOTHER ONE!!

I think we'll need to get you guys bodyguards, those women are dangerous!! Do you think it's your cologne? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace,

You're seeing your own red flags! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> What nerve!! LOL You and Petvet just give Avondale and I enough time to order our dresses!!

Avondale,

I hope you had a wonderful weekend, thank you for your the thought provoking question. Sorry to hear about your dog. Sometimes when the tears come, they represent many things. It's good to have a good cry every now and then.

Me

I needed a few more General Education classes before starting School in the Fall. So I registered at the local Community College to take a class on line. The course is in Sociology, and the only class available, now get this was Marriage/Family Intimate Relationship. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I guess God really does have a sense of humor!

Everyone else,

Have a great week.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/28/03 11:17 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: I cannot believe you misread my post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It's my exw who is quizzing my son about what's going on, as a matter of fact, she has call asking questions. My buddy told me this would happen along with some other folks who are familiar with the situation.

Relady: You sure know how to take a vacation:San Diego. That's the way to go. Now you have to convince Avondale to do the same thing.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/28/03 03:19 PM
Hi All,

Over this past weekend, my G/F said several things concerning our relationship that really threw me for a loop. So much so... I'm thinking about calling it a day with her and moving on.

Where do I start,

1. She at first, was very upset that I didn't want to just jump into marriage right off the bat... and as I write this... I believe she still is upset over the whole thing... because I won't make a commit.

2. She is going to start working a second job to help augment her business because things are slow in her area of business. It's slow everywhere over here... so nothing new there. See statement #1 for why she feels she needs to do this.

3. She decided to go and look for another house or townhouse to purchase because she stated that our families would never mix well... and she is not going to wait for me to decide what I want to do. I've told her several times that we need to take things slow and mythodical... but I guess that's not good enough.

4. Our kids really don't mix well... over time they came to the conclusion that they really don't care for each other plain and simple.

5. She told me to go out and find someone else because she doesn't see it working because of the kid issues. That was just for starters... there is more, but I won't bore you with the details.

Needless to say... after last nights telephone conversation, and all the red flags that I saw go up. I think I have decided to tell her goodbye.

I'm going with my gut feel on this... it feels like a train wreck ready to happen, and I'm going to do everything in my power to avoid it.

Petvet...

I did misunderstand your post when I first read it. But I went back and reread it and made the correction... which I still stand on.

As you can see... kids can be a major issue to deal with... add exWs to the fray and you got a real good mix that could possibly take off in a very bad direction.

I think your buddy is wise to pick-up so soon on what was transpiring. What are her thoughts on this?

relady...

I do have a lot of nerve don't I? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL... I'm starting to get very cynical as time goes on. It's not my nature... but I seem to be falling into that niche.

Take care of yourself and watch those computers... they WILL tear you up if you work on them long enough... especially laptops.

I hope everyone else has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/28/03 04:36 PM
Wallace
I'm kind of in shock. Were you glossing over things when you posted previously? I won't comment further, because I want to consider what you wrote before responding directly. I'm sorry you've been dealing with behavior like that, after what you went through with your exw. I'll write back later, for now I just wanted to stop and ((((( Wallace )))))
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/28/03 07:03 PM
Hi avondale,

Thanks for the hug... it always nice to get a good hug when you have been just whacked in the head with a 2x4.

I wasn't glossing over things with my G/F... I wish I had been.

Everything was going well until we had this Cookout at my home this past weekend.

I think what kicked it into motion was my YD. She said something to both my G/F and her kids... but I'm not entirely sure what it was. I'm still trying to get to the bottom of it all.

Anyway... my G/F just did an about face last night and out of no where, she started going on about how I am procrastinating with this relationship and how the kids are a real issue for her.

It appears that she is angry at me... because we both have kids... and they don't like each other.
So basically it's another roadblock (in her mind) that is getting in the way of us getting married.

Well (in my mind) it's not the only roadblock. I'm the roadblock... I'm not ready to get married again and it is getting to her.

She called about an hour ago and tried to continue on where she left off.

I told her... I had heard enough... and if she wanted to continue this relationship any further she better slow down and think about what she is saying and how she is acting.

So at the moment... she is back peddling, and possibly rethinking all that she said.

I told her if she couldn't take the situation as it exists and work with it... then there is no sense in seeing each other any longer.

She said she would call me back later this afternoon to discuss it.

So that's where it lays at the moment.

I'm not enjoying it at all... and if she doesn't change her tone, and tune... I'm going to walk.

Major red flags all over the place.

I'm open for opinions and suggestions.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/28/03 08:55 PM
Wallace ,
Well here's my two cents worth... The timing and speed of your relationship with g/f has been an issue from Day 1 on this thread. We have all teased you about her immediate desire to tie the knot, and you said you've explained things to her, and made it as clear as possible about where you stood on the subject. I believe you even gave her some sort of timeline for waiting....like next year or something (?) I think if she is STILL harping on the subject, either your communication isn't as clear as you think (because she isn't getting the message) or she has her own agenda and is ignoring your communication. Something that came to me while I was reading your first post was, does she need financial security? Is that a big part of why she wants to get married? Your statements 1,2, & 3 all are actions that (whether overt or subtle) put pressure on you. Seems like if she cared about you, your feelings, etc., she wouldn't want to put pressure (especially if you communicate that to her).

As for statement #4, I thought your families got along great, and didn't you say she had initiated you and your OD reconciling somewhat? I am not the person with blended family experience, but if the kids don't get along now, then that's not a good sign. Is it a kid vs. kid thing, or a kid vs.g/f thing? How about her kids and you? Why do you think your g/f can't work past that? Do you feel your relationship with her is worth putting up with the junk you will have to endure from the kids too?

Statement #5 sounds like something said in anger and frustration. I'm sure she'll regret a lot of what's been said (and especially the way it was said) once she considers things.

Finally, is it possible that this is one of those "rebound relationships"? If you lose her in this capacity, will you be able to go on, or will it set you back? That might be a way to determine how important the relationship is to you and your future. Regardless, keep us posted. I'm sorry you're having to go through this.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/29/03 07:13 PM
Hi avondale,

I'll try to put this in perspective as best I can.

I think my way of communicating to my G/F has been pretty clear. Of course I don't know what part of "Im not prepared to get married for at least a year" she doesn't understand.

We had a pretty good discussion last night on the telephone. I stated that I would not consider getting married until every last one of our children were out on their own. That puts it at about 3 to 4 years. She doesn't like that part at all.

The kid issue which started out real well... turned very sour over this past weekend. her kids and mine have had different points of view on a number of things... but evidently it all came to a head this past weekend... and they flat out decided that they just don't like one another.

My G/F in turn brought it all to my attention Monday night, that there is no way we could ever mix our families... which I went along with after listening to her tell me all the reasons why we couldn't mix the families.

Well, that was the wrong answer I guess. She wanted me to figure a way to make it happen anyway. After she brought up some very valid points concerning why the kids could not live in the same household (some I wasn't even aware of), I reasoned it through and concurred with everything she said... I don't think there is anyway we could ever bring these two families together under the same roof. Hence my statement, "we will need to wait until they all grow up before I will consider getting married".

Well she is furious... so we just about called it a day last night. I can only be told so many times that I need to do this, and do that, and I should look for someone else. So I told her... "O.K. then, I will.

Well that stopped her right in her tracks. She has now backed way off, and she is beginning to act somewhat civil.

I'm not sure if this is a rebound relationship, for either her or me. I'm to a point where I've been hurt so much over the last 23 plus years, it's almost like water running off a ducks back. I didn't intentionally want to feel this way, it just sort of is happening.

I will say this... she is not hurting for money... nor am I, so I don't think we are looking at any sort of a money issue thing here as far as our relationship is concerned... but I've been wrong before.

The next couple of days will be interesting as well as this weekend. I have basically decided to start this whole relationship from scratch again, and take things slow and mythodical... like I always intended.

Thanks for your input on this.

I hope everyone else has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 05/29/03 07:20 PM
Hey All,

Just thought I would pop in before my next appointment.

{{{{{Wallace}}}}}

One thing I have to say to you is, "Run, Wallace Run!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I see my crystal ball is working, I knew those were your red flags and not Petvets.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told her... I had heard enough... and if she wanted to continue this relationship any further she better slow down and think about what she is saying and how she is acting.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Forget about everything she said, why in the world would you want to continue this relationship if she slows down? That would only be to appease you until later. She is already changing houses, and showing signs of control, etc. Is that what you want for yourself?

Remember, when you ask God if she is the one; why ask if you're not going to listen? There have been signs all over the place. Everyone saw them but you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Blinders on?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm not enjoying it at all... and if she doesn't change her tone, and tune... I'm going to walk.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anybody can change their tune until the storm is over! I'm sure you have being seeing signs of this behavior long before now! I'm not going to address what she said, because it's your behavior I'm confused about <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Could this have been a rebound for you as well?

Now on the other hand if you're feeling particularly "needy", or that you can't find anyone else to date, etc.. my advice is to forget us, red flags, downboy, etc. and marry her and put her out of her misery and live miserable ever after!! She sounds very desperate to me.

There is a huge world out there after divorce and you haven't even explored it!

I don't mean to be harsh, however; Treat yourself better and like yourself even more. Sometimes we attract the same type of person as the WS. That's when you know it is time to ask God to shine the light inward, then embrace and change what He shows you.

I've come to care for all of you here on Tough Love and although I want to have a new dress for A wedding, I want it to be the right wedding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/29/03 09:11 PM
Yippee! So glad to have another woman's opinion for Wallace ! Now if we could just get RMA, Mx8, and WGTT to chime in, we'd have a unanimous vote <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace , I totally agree with Relady on every point. Your g/f's behavior is obvious....it's the fact you are continuing things, especially NOW, that is confusing.

Do you think that once your kids are out of the house that they will automatically get along at future family gatherings? Christmas? Easter? Birthdays? Births? (For them, not you, LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> What about your own wedding - would that be like a scene from a movie starring Chevy Chase where everything goes wrong because of the dysfunctional interpersonal relationships within the family??? I have heard that second marriages can bring resentment, even with adult children. So....????

Relady said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've come to care for all of you here on Tough Love and although I want to have a new dress for A wedding, I want it to be the right wedding . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Avondale25 says AMEN SISTER <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: spirit_driven Re: Tough Love - 05/29/03 09:31 PM
Legal contracts Petvet was talking about? You mean we can have our spouses sign a legal agreement to stay away or disconnect with OP? Please explain.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/30/03 02:37 PM
Hi All,

Well it's Friday... and I'm going to try to wind this week down early. I'm out of here at Noon.

relady and avondale...

I am in agreement with you both. Everything both of you have said has been right on the numbers.

I did ask God to direct me... and my G/F is not the one. In fact it has been put into my heart that there is no one else that will come into my life that will allow me to love again like I loved my exW. So there is really no sense in really thinking about it.

I don't believe I'm needy... in fact I'm finding myself each and everyday not needing another woman in my life. Like I've said many times before... I like being single.

Was this a rebound relationship? It may very well have been. But I really can't say for certain, because I didn't walk into it feeling like I needed to start up another relationship.

I'm having dinner with her tonight, and I more than likely will break it off with her. I am going to tell her that I would just like to stay friends, but that's it.

Thanks for the guidance avondale and relady, and relady, I knew you had that crystal ball running the whole time... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Spirit Driven...

I'm not sure what you might be referring to what Petvet stated.

I hope everyone has a good weekend... I know mine is going to be interesting.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 05/30/03 04:11 PM
Hey All,

Happy Friday. Have a great Weekend.

Wallace

I'm glad I caught your post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm having dinner with her tonight, and I more than likely will break it off with her. I am going to tell her that I would just like to stay friends, but that's it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whatever you do, please do not use the 'friend' sentence! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In fact it has been put into my heart that there is no one else that will come into my life that will allow me to love again like I loved my exW. So there is really no sense in really thinking about it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe me, when the time is right, God will send someone else that's right for you. Meanwhile, God wants to spend time with you, making you into who He wants you to be.

Just rest in the fact that He knows what's best for you.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/30/03 06:30 PM
Wallace, I agree with Relady, don't use the "friend" phraseology. It reeks of superiority and most people who are on the receiving end of that type of conversation get hurt even more. If you remain friends naturally, it will happen, and that's great.

Spirit Driven,- I also do not understand your question. Which comment were you referring to by Petvet? Could you perhaps use the "quote" button to show us? That would involve copying where he wrote that, and then choosing the "quote" button under the UBB code selections and pasting what Petvet wrote in between the two quotes. I'm sure Petvet will comment and we will be glad to also but it's not clear what you read.

Everlasting Compassion - where are you? Miss ya <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope everyone else has a great weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I'm choosing this icon in case we actually get our first sunshine in 3 weeks here!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 05/30/03 09:07 PM
Hi Gang!

Look like eveybody is busy!!

Nothing new happening on my end...Go to court 3rd week of June...

Wallace - Sorry to see the ship being tossed. As they say, if you want to know how someone really is, see then respond under pressure, then you see the real side and it ain't going away. My concern is that 1. You sound like you didn't do any relationship reading to maintain steady paced friendship but applied marriage matterial from the begining. 2. If I'm correct did she go straight from her husband to you? Is she so co-dependent she wants to marry you out of fear rather than love? Did she say go find someone else because that's what she'll do immediately rather than deal with seeing herself alone for a while? or the big question? is this a sex issue for her?

Just my thoughts?

Avondale - Glad to see you are making it along the journey. I'm ok, just trying to live life.

Hello eveyone else - Keep up the good work Relady

Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/31/03 12:07 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: Oh Boy, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> where do I start? You may want to take Relady's and Avondale's advice and cut G/F aloose. Firstly, she is already taking sides in regards to the kids. She is piting her kids against yours and there is no way that will work in a marriage or a relationship. Secondly, if she is being bosey now, that type of behavior will not go away when you get married, it will only get worst. By the way, you guys are not living together are you? Please tell me
NO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Your kids are a lot older than mine and buddy's, so they have laid down their tuff and marked it. This time should have been used to investigate whether this friend of yours is a good match even to make good company rather than from the marriage mold. If I were you, I would not feel bad because you have avoided a train wreck. I would move on to the next candidate whenever that person shows up. You have to admit that there have been red flags all over the place since day one. Even from the stand point of just a friend those flags should have gotten your attention. I think Relady said that you may be picky someone just like your ex. She may be right; if that is the case, you really need to reevaluate what you are doing because if you are unconsciously jumping right into another RAT hole, you need to look inward. Don't be sad man, chalk it up as a narrow miss. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Charge ahead my good man.

Me: My kid and buddy's kid get along very well. I told her I expect her to treat my kid as though he was her own and vice versa. We have serious talks all the time, and I try to discuss any problems as quick as possible and nip them in the bud. If something is on my mine or bothering me, I let it out. She is totally different than my ex. They have nothing in common except their race. Don't expect me to be going down the aisle anytime soon. We know this is a process. We are just enjoy our time together. We are trying to conduct our relationship through faith and follow our religious principles. We will see what happens. She said to me recently that when she got involve with me that she also took on my baggage as well (kid, ex, etc)and vice versa. We had our first serious conflict on last Tuesday. We had to make sure where each of us were in our relationship; it was so deep that I nearly cried. Everything is fine now, but I know other minefields are out there. I want to discover as many minefields as possible. Rather now than later.

And I'm gone.

PS: Thanks Avondale, EC, and Relady for your advice to Wallace.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/02/03 03:44 PM
Hi All,

Well the weekend went by way too fast for me such as it usually does.

Well... My G/F and I went to dinner Friday night, and we had a very in depth conversation about everything.

I had initially began the conversation with the "this isn't working statement".

After several hours of going through everything that has happened in our relationship from the beginning to where we are right now. I decided not to give up on the relationship as of yet.

She indicated that she said all those things to me because she was feeling insecure in our relationship and she wanted to see if in fact I would cut and run... which I was prepared to do.

Ironically, we get along just fine. This in fact was pretty much our first problem area that we have really ran into. It wasn't until our kids kicked in that we started seeing signs of any real sort of a problem.

We have had differing views on this relationship, and how far and how fast to take it... and with most relationships... there are going to be bumps in the road.

What we decided... was to continue our relationship... with no marriage plans to be even thought of until all the kids have gone their merry way... which is going to be quite awhile.

I have indeed seen some major red flags through out this relationship thus far. It's going on 8 or 9 months now that we have been seeing each other, and for the most part... it's been pretty good.

Somewhere during this time I started having feelings for her... more than I wanted to. I really wanted to keep it from going in that direction... because I didn't want to get caught up in another relationship so quickly. I like my freedom now, and I do like being single. So I wasn't looking for anything serious. It just happened.

Fortunately... she is nothing like my exW. She is a very sensitive and cariing individual. She just thought my kids evidently didn't care for her or her kids, and it bothered her.

She stated that she has finally come to the conclusion that she made a mistake in pushing this relationship too fast. She said, "that she doesn't want to lose me". She wants to wait for as long as it takes, so we both can come to the realization that it's either going to work for the best, or it's not going to work at all.

Well... there it is! I couldn't break up with her after our talk... I just couldn't. Call me foolish, but my heart and mind just couldn't do it.

I prayed on it. while we were in Church I prayed on it again as well. Right at the moment... it feels like I made the right decision.

O.K., you can all let me have it... I'm listening.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 06/03/03 05:14 AM
Hey All,

I hope everyone had a good and productive weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace, Wallace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Somehow I knew that it was not a break up dinner, and you knew the same!!

Now, let's review: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> After several hours of going through everything that has happened in our relationship from the beginning to where we are right now. I decided not to give up on the relationship as of yet.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It took her that long to convince you! Couldn't get the tears up sooner, huh?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She indicated that she said all those things to me because she was feeling insecure in our relationship and she wanted to see if in fact I would cut and run... which I was prepared to do.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Soooo, whenever she's feeling insecure, you have a hoop, er I mean test to take? I don't think you were the least bit prepared to cut and run. Insecurity doesn't just go away, it has to be attacked and conquered. This I know about. Don't you see a problem with that? Insecurity is, "you're not doing what I want you to do, so how can I get you to make me feel better!"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We have had differing views on this relationship, and how far and how fast to take it... and with most relationships... there are going to be bumps in the road.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This has been going on since day one and yes there are bumps in the road.. They're made to slow you down! A person can usually hide their true character for at least a year. Not her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I understand you having feelings for her, and loving the attention good or bad, however; you have just shown her that you can and will be manipulated. I'm not sure if that is the message you wanted to send, too late now.

Now for the exam:

1. Why are you afraid to explore other relationships?

2. Do you feel no one else will want you?

3. Do you think the conversation regarding marriage is over? HA, HA

4. Is God leading you or are you leaning to your own understanding?

5. Do you really like being single?

6. If she is insecure now, do you think it changes on its own?

These are questions for you to ask God! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Because you're starting to sound very confused and we know where that comes from.

And, lastly, value yourself and others will see the value in you. Because she is just not getting it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

See your own byline for encouragement! LOL

Sometimes, I should just mind my own business, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi, Avondale, EC, Petvet, Mommax8 and anyone I missed.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/02/03 09:51 PM
Hi All,

Check this out, I was stunned.

Around the time my WW started having her A's and I didn't know it. I had just started this mini-marriage study class I was teaching and it was about the love language of yourself and your spouse. I had this one couple sit in on it with us. What was so wierd back then in (2000)was my WW (didn't know it then) was challenging everything I was saying and real disruptive the entire time until I got so discourage I stopped and cancelled the class.

Well the husband called me the other day on him and his wife's 14th anniversary and he said "Thanks for helping me discover my wife and her love language, we are celebrating our 14th wedding aniversary" thanks to you, that was such a great marriage class and eye opener you taught us".

I said thanks

I was so taken back with emotion. I was so happy for them. But at the same time I was like why did your marriage succeed to greater heights and mine failed in the extreme of divorce all within one month later? Why did you and your wife run with the information and mine let it go in one ear out the other? Why did I beat myself up as such a failure when it all happened? Was this at all really about me? I know I had my faults but were my faults fixable and normal after 18 years?

Anyway - After that call, I realised had been doing some right things in my marriage than I realised. There's suceeded and mine failed, go figure?

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/02/03 10:41 PM
Wallace,
Well, Relady said most of what I would have, so I'll say "AMEN!" to her post and add a few of my own:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well... My G/F and I went to dinner Friday night, and we had a very in depth conversation about everything </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'll admit that this might seem nit-picky, but if I wanted to have a long, in depth, honest conversation about something this serious, it would include tears (whether real or fake) and raised voices. Therefore, I would not be able to do it at a restaurant. In public places, one isn't honest with oneself, and is careful of emotional outbursts. So I question just how "real" y'all were with what you said. Maybe y'all were at one of your homes....?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Ironically, we get along just fine. This in fact was pretty much our first problem area that we have really ran into. It wasn't until our kids kicked in that we started seeing signs of any real sort of a problem. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HELLO????!?!?! I would have said your first (and as it appears, ongoing) problem area is that of your timetable vs. hers. Don't make me look back for all the previous posts where you said "she wants to hurry us down the aisle and I don't". Those posts are too numerous and time-consuming for me to dig out, but we ALL know that they're on here!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What we decided... was to continue our relationship... with no marriage plans to be even thought of until all the kids have gone their merry way... which is going to be quite awhile. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a verbatim quote from several of your previous posts with the exception of the kids thing. You have been there, said & done that already. What makes you think that everything will be OK once the kids are gone? The kids will still be in your lives, maybe just to a lesser degree, but they'll still have to tolerate each other and y'all. Wouldn't you rather have a mate that had all the wonderful qualities you say this one does, PLUS has kids who get along with you and yours?

Then Relady said something that I think is a KEY POINT : <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I understand you having feelings for her, and loving the attention good or bad, however; you have just shown her that you can and will be manipulated </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is hitting the nail on the head. Women can manipulate without even trying; I think it's a genetic thing traced back to Eve in the Garden. So now she knows you are susceptible, and there is no going back now.

We still love you, Wallace. You need to prayerfully consider those questions Relady gave you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
EC - It took me a while to write the above and I originally missed your post. I think your exw was already in her fog, and that's why nothing you said "got to her." I know you're glad to have something positive come from the experience of teaching the class, since your own experience was less than good. Having that couple call you up should be very affirming and show you that you have a lot going for you! Even though you quit teaching, God worked it for good! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ June 02, 2003, 05:47 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/03/03 11:27 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: Ouch! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> The two ladies are really giving it to you. What I recommend for you is if you want to continue dating your G/F, that's find; however, please be mindful that you must think with your head and not your heart. You may want to reduce your time and resources on this lady until she proves herself. I read in a Dr. Laura book that it's best to at least date someone for four seasons to gauge their temperment and behavior. I think Relady said that anyone can hide their real self for a year,and I do agree with that statement. This lady appears to have displayed herself much earlier. Please view things through clear glasses.

EC: As Avondale said, once somebody is in the fog, they are on a single minded trail.

Avondale and Relady: DOWN! DOWN! Please don't bite anyone. The white flag is out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/03/03 03:13 PM
Hello All,

Petvet, it's o.k., I can take it, and I'm not ready to raise the white flag yet. Both relady and avondale have very good constructive points that they are both making. I wanted other points of view on this, and by golly I'm getting it.

I'm going to try to go through some of these.

As far as having the conversation at dinner in a public place. There was a reason for that... Did you ever see the movie Jerry McGuire? I didn't want a huge scene (not that I expected one) once I decided to walk... and I did in fact tell her I was all done with this relationship while we were at dinner.

The reason why our conversation took as long as it did was because I listened to every last word she had to say and sort it all out before I made my decision final. I did in fact have every intention on walking.

It in essence was like a trial, (not that I planned it that way) a court case, present the evidence and then render the final verdict. To walk or not to walk... I chose not to walk for the time being based on what was said.

relady, you brought up many valid points... but the one that really sticks out is the fact she did in fact manipulate me. I am fully aware of it, and it has not been the first time... it is in fact the last time. She was told by me that she in fact is trying to manipulate me, and I wasn't going to put up with it anymore.

I did take your list to bring to the Lord and I will let you know in time what answers may be given to me.

avondale... such as relady... you have brought up many valid points. I know that we have heard the old song and dance tune that she was going to back off the marriage path. The main thrust of me standing my ground... is to let everything come forth and expose itself for what it really is. I want to know all of her faults as well her know all of mine. I had every intention of waiting for at least a year before considering marriage whether she liked it or not.

If she goes down this path one more time at this stage... I am indeed walking away from it.

Keep in mind... for all intense and purposes... I'm in full agreement with all of you. I'm not in anyway saying that what you all have said is off base. In fact it's pretty much right on the money.

Yes I'm running confused over all of this... I admit that. The writing is pretty much on the wall... I'm just taking it one day at a time with no real expectations at this stage of this relationship.

Why don't I explore other relationships with other woman? None have presented themselves thus far. If and when they do... I will most likely take a look at it. I haven't closed the door on anything yet... except what use to be my marriage.

Petvet...

Hang in there my friend... I'm just clearing the way for you here... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> j/k

EC...

I have to agree with what everyone else has stated.

The reason you couldn't save your "M", and you were able to help theirs was because they both wanted to save their "M".

One person alone cannot save a marriage unless the other spouse is willing to save it as well. Your exW had other plans... it wasn't you that failed at trying to salvage your "M". You can only do so much by yourself to save a "M".

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ June 03, 2003, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/03/03 04:16 PM
Hey y'all,
Hope everyone is having a good week so far!

Wallace
I have one last comment (I promise). You said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why don't I explore other relationships with other woman? None have presented themselves thus far. If and when they do... I will most likely take a look at it. I haven't closed the door on anything yet... except what use to be my marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you ever thought that maybe "none presented themselves thus far" because you were already so wrapped up with Ms Leather Jacket? You weren't divorced (i.e., "available") but a few days before you went out on a "real" date... That didn't leave much of an opening for another wonderful woman to come forth OR for you to see another one, since you were in the dating fog at that point <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet - Please remember that Wallace said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Both relady and avondale have very good constructive points that they are both making. I wanted other points of view on this, and by golly I'm getting it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You should not worry or hold back anything that's going on with you either! We're here to help and can be sweet when we need to <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . The fact that you're so quiet makes us wonder what you're up to. What action, if any, did you take about your son talking to his mom about your buddy?

Mx8, WGTT, EC, Relady - hope things are going well for y'all!

<small>[ June 03, 2003, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/04/03 02:15 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">have one last comment (I promise). You said:
quote:Why don't I explore other relationships with other woman? None have presented themselves thus far. If and when they do... I will most likely take a look at it. I haven't closed the door on anything yet... except what use to be my marriage. Have you ever thought that maybe "none presented themselves thus far" because you were already so wrapped up with Ms Leather Jacket? You weren't divorced (i.e., "available") but a few days before you went out on a "real" date... That didn't leave much of an opening for another wonderful woman to come forth OR for you to see another one, since you were in the dating fog at that point [Big Grin]
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again your right on the numbers... I didn't leave a very big window of opportunity for anyone else did I?

I believe that whatever God's will is in all of this... he will lead me in that direction... I've been praying on it. I'm not sure where it is heading, but I'm sure I will find out in due time.

I heard from the State yesterday concerning my exW's failure to pay child support. Evidently she is collecting unemployment benifits... so they are going to garnish that as well as revoke her drivers license within the next two weeks... so it's getting interesting.

I hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/06/03 12:08 PM
Oh no, found us on Page Two! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Not much new here, except my son has decided he wants to distance himself A LITTLE from the "extremist right-wing political cult" he's been invovled in, which is good. His beliefs haven't changed so much as his realization that as long as he's so very actively involved with them (on their payroll, living at their HQ) then he will always be lumped in with them and may be restricted in life by people who know that. So I think this is a good step in the right direction for him, but presents new challenges for me, in parenting alone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I plan to probably let him live here 30 days to get a job and save enough $$ for an apt. deposit. Not sure if I should write up a contract or something... I can tell he's matured some but I don't want to be connected by association with anything he's still involved in. And of course, in that 30 days, my H may initiate a Divorce (state law here is you have to live apart 1 yr). So I'm not sure how the knowledge of son being here might affect anything in that arena. Oh well, it's in God's hands, right?

Hope you all have a great weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/06/03 12:38 PM
Hi Avondale,

Just want to drop a thought of encouragement. Eventhough you may be alone soon, it won't be all that bad, in fact you'll get a better chance to discover yourself and become stronger.

Dispite if your WH files for DV remember this about the life of a wayward spouse "THERE IS NO FAITHFULNESS IN THERE WORDS!". I don't care how you slice it or what they say or do, you cannot believe a thing they say because it's all a lie, that's why the relationship they're in is all a lie. While it may appear to seem they're happy and moving on, remember they are only moving backwards in life obtaining a lifetime wound unless God removes it.

If he files, you have to handle your papers as if you're dealing with a thief. I messed up by thinking how she used to be and I had always trusted her, however they have no intrested in you because they are self-centered and full of lies. They do not have an ounce of truth in there mouth, they are the manifestation what a lie looks like.

Remember this, whom the WS ran to is a very dysfuntional person themselves, 2 people that lie does not produce ANY truth and as always, they'll have to tell people how they met and how they came together and there will always be shame.

PS 5:

9 For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.

Take Care
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 06/06/03 06:48 PM
Hi all,

I know I haven't written in some time just wanted to give you an update of where I am at today. Well lets see where did I leave off. I believe it was stbxh coming into town again for visit, he came in the past weekemd and he actually stayed at the house and it was the land of no reality for 2 days and he leaves again. I am an emotional wreck that is ready to just give up. And then I was offered to go on a trip all expenses paid for a week to the virgin islands, and had to cancel my reservation last minute because stbxh found out and went ballistic. This trip was given too me because someone noticed I needed a break and felt I deserved it. It was then turned into how I would just forget my responsibilities and leave my children and so on and so on and so on. Why do I allow him to continue to manipulate my every move. I was really thinking we were moving towards some type of reconciliation but he hasn't changed a bit, he stopped drinking he stopped taking the drugs, he is going to therapy, but he has made no attempt to help me out whatsoever. I am getting ready to lose my house, the renters for my other house have not paid this month, I can't afford to pay the mortgage on my new house without that money and I have daycare cost to pay as well as all of our mutual bills that he received over $669 a month unearned money and he sends me $161 per month and pays none of the bills. the papers state he is to pay me at least half and he sends what he wants. I am drowning and he is driving over my head with a boat.

He tells me he just doesn't understand what I am so upset about he thought we were trying to reconcile and plan the vacation together to the beach of course that would be me paying for 99% he would just show up at the camp site and squat for the entire time and because the kids would bawl and cry if I make him leave. I just have to endure the pain over and over again and I just can't handle it. He calls me every night telling me how much he loves me, how much he wants to be part of my life. He is angry that I don't where my wedding band any longer, well why would I he left me and we filed for divorce. He says I am still his wife, but he choses not to be my husband.

What is wrong with this man??? Can't he see that he is pulling the life blood out of me.

Please give me the encouragement to really just say no more and stick to it this time because I just can't take this anymore, I just can't.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/06/03 08:03 PM
Mx8 - I'll tell you, I am not surprised at all by your post. Your husband is a "user". By allowing him to use you, you become an "enabler". You are both co-dependant (I know you knew that already) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but you need to make a plan and stick with it. Aren't you in Plan B? I know it's hard, these first months are hard for everyone, and it's worse on you because of the kids. Stand strong, and don't give in. Maybe you should adopt your father's attitude and be tougher!

You have every right to go on a trip, but at this point in your relationship (not divorced, things in limbo) he certainly can say you're being irresponsible. And he seems irrational, so I would worry what he might do around the kids while you were gone. Try to hold out w/o a trip away from them a little while longer.

If you allow him to accompany you on the family trip to the beach, you are asking for trouble. What are your options there? Can you alter your plans, change the dates, locations, whatever, and keep him from finding out?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What is wrong with this man??? Can't he see that he is pulling the life blood out of me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, he can't see, and he doesn't care either. I know that sounds harsh, but as long as you are receiving his phone calls, and interacting with him in any way other than what is ABSOLUTELY necessary, he will continue this behavior. That's NOT Plan B.

Don't allow yourself to be used this way. It is great that he has stopped using drugs and is going to therapy. But did you specifically tell him what financial help you needed? If so, and he hasn't fulfilled your mutual agreement and really doesn't care about you (right now). You will have to go to court to have him forced to help you financially. Have you thought about doing that yet? If not, why?

Have you seen a lawyer yet? They can make sure child support papers are drawn up NOW. They can help you with the mortgage situation too (buy you some more time). I think that fact alone would bring you some relief and help with the stress.

Do you have a computer at home yet? Can you post over the weekend? Hang in there!

<small>[ June 06, 2003, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/08/03 12:26 PM
Hi all!

Mommax8: Sweetheart, I'll have to agree with Avondale. You must develop a plan and stick with it. You have been told this several times. You are cutting your own throat. You may want to get a court order for him to stay away from you and have the court to implement supervised visits for him and the kids.You are just going in circles.

Avondale: No, I'm not hiding anything. As I told you guys two weeks ago, buddy and I had our moment recently where we had to reconfirm where we were in this relationship. We worked things out. As a matter of fact, things are going well, but I know the dark cloud is coming. She has been in Europe for the past week and a half(England and France( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> )). I even checked out horoscopes to see how things match, and they compliment eachother if you want to follow the stars. Well looking at the stars, I checked my ex and my horoscopes. Guest what? No match. But of course much more is involve than just the stars. It can work if both work parties work at it.

Wallace: Thanks for paving the way for me. I think your glasses are clear now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And I'm Gone.
Posted By: mommax8 Re: Tough Love - 06/08/03 11:12 PM
Avondale- thank you so much for the kick in the butt...i really needed it because he has just got me going in circles. I have really tried to plan B but low and behold I get sucked right back into it again. As far as the trip is concerned, there is nothing he can say as far as the court is concerned because it is a work thing and I already filed divorce and he just got back from a trip to Myrtle Beach. I have been re-invited for Friday all expense paid to the Bahama's AM I NUTS TO NOT GO??? Anyway , I am taking your advice I am sticking to my guns. I am drowning here financially and my stbxh is doing nothing to help. He has been out of the house since Mar 3 and has yet to get a job. He has no bills and gets $660 per month from the state and he has nothing to pay for....What is wrong with this picture. I am finally in the angry stage instead of the whoa is me stage. As far as the plans for the vacation, I can't change the date because I had already made the arrangements and it is paid for way in advance or I wouldn't go at all. I will however spend my time at the ocean just me and the kids, and he can spend the time with them but leave me alone. I spoke to him yesterday morning and I told him he needed to leave me alone. He ended the conversation crying saying I have really lost you I really blew it this time, and I said, I gave you pretty simple requests and though you are working on them their is one fundamental problem......you are still not paying your debts or taking care of the kids financially which in turn is causing me to hate you more and more each day because the children are the ones that are suffering.

Thank you so much for the support, and by the way I have computer usage on the weekends I use my Dad's but I am working on one for me too.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 06/10/03 04:01 AM
Hey all,

I hope everyone had a great weekend.

I think I have now used up all my free time, and need more hours in a day. Until I get used to reading chapters with 35 pages each! (ugh) I won't post as much as I used to. I'm also checking everywhere for scholarships. Less for me to pay!

Petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As a matter of fact, things are going well, but I know the dark cloud is coming. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you continue to look for the dark cloud, you will certainly find it if you continue to read the 'horoscopes'!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Mommax8

Listen to Avondale, I agree with her advice totally. There is nothing more that he can say to you. And don't fall for the tears!! That is a last attempt at manipulation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as the plans for the vacation, I can't change the date because I had already made the arrangements and it is paid for way in advance or I wouldn't go at all. I will however spend my time at the ocean just me and the kids, and he can spend the time with them but leave me alone. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is he going with you?

Avondale, Wallace and all

Hope all is well.

God Bless
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/10/03 02:08 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a good weekend.

mommax8...

You need to get back into Plan B. and quit letting your "H" manipulate you. It's good that he is following through with everything that he is... but he needs to step up to the plate and take care of his financial responsibilties.

Petvet...

Watch out with those horoscopes... they are not good IMHO.

Everything on my end is going O.K. for the time being, but give it time... I'm sure it will change.

avondale, relady, EC, and everyone else...

Hoping your day goes well today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ June 10, 2003, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/12/03 12:09 PM
Oh no, we're on page two again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I hope that is because everything is going OK for everyone.

Nothing new with me except I'm going to the beach for a few days, along with both kids and son-in-law. Will meet my dad and his GF there (Dad & she dated in school, and their families are old friends). Just found out they are living together, as she would lose her fantastic insurance benefits (military widow) if she married. Dad assures me otherwise, they'd be legal in a heartbeat. They're in their 70s so I guess they don't want to waste any more time alone.

So it should be interesting. I see a difference between adultery (what my H did) and what my dad is doing (although sin is sin in God's eyes). Will my kids see a difference between the two? Also, I'm wondering if I'm the only one who sees the irony in this situation??

Have a great weekend, everyone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ June 12, 2003, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/12/03 12:29 PM
Hi Gang!

Well, Well..it made it to page 2...

Nothing new going on with me either...CS Mod date is next week, I can't wait for that.

Yesterday I just got this odd notice posted on my door....My Apt complex management is evicting me in 3 days because they say I owe them a month of rent, in which I don't I gave them cancelled checks to prove it.

The Truth: They are new owners as of 2 months ago and the previous owners ran off with some of the rent payments for april and now they want to steal it from me at there loss and deal gone bad, I've have been an excellent tenant and pay on time with proof of all checks cleared. Therefore once I get the summons for court, I'm filing a $1 million dollar lawsuit against them. They should be going after the previous owners not me.

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/12/03 02:32 PM
Hi All,

Page 2? Uhmmmm... it must be because everyone is doing pretty good.

avondale...

Going to the beach for a few days sounds like a great time... I could use a little of that. We really don't have any coast line in Colorado. I miss that... I lived most of my life back East... and there was plenty of coast line to go visit... I miss the beach.

Hope you have a great time with your kids and your Dad.

EC...

That is a pretty interesting situation you have going on there. I'm not an attorney, but I do believe that if you have paid your rent and can prove it, and they evict you, you can file suit and recover the costs of the damages that you in actuality incurred. If the new owners act like that though... I would begin to look for a new place immediately.

Hope things go in your favor.

Petvet, relady, mommax8, and everyone else... I hope your day is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 06/12/03 04:38 PM
Hey All,

What's up with page 2?

Yesterday was not a good day for me. I realized I wasn't getting one of my bills, called the company and they had changed the address to my H's! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> The said they have a mechanism set up with the post office to receive change of addresses regardless of which family member requests it! How stupid is that? Then I realized he was sending them back with, "Does not live Here". How sad that he couldn't call with that information! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Wallace

You would rather let us go to page two than give us an update on you!! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

How are things? Now that you're not talking about marriage, what's left? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale

You're making me jealous. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> We haven't seen the sun in two weeks. Talk about 'doom and gloom'. I got a condo in the Bahamas next month, so I'll be sure to make you eat your heart out! LOL One way to celebrate a year of 'separation' or a year of 'jubilation' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Have a great time.

EC

Once they realize you have paid, they won't want to waste their time in court. It's a good thing you keep good records. Should have bought that duplex! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet

Come on, don't keep a low profile, we won't be too hard on you I promise!

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/13/03 05:48 AM
I just got back into my office and noticed that I was still logged on.

relady...

Boy do I know what it's like not getting your mail. My exW did the same exact thing. She had all of our mail going to a Post Office box in her name only. Stupid me... it took me 8 months to figure out what was going on. I'm still feeling the ripple effects from that one and that was 2 years ago.

Everything concerning my G/F at this point in time seems to be working well and in the right direction.

She just made an offer on a townhouse yesterday, and she is waiting to see if the owner accepts.

She has come to the conclusion that we are going to wait... before making any long term plans. Maybe in about 3 years if everything is going well we will take a look at making some possible long term plans... but for now, it's steady as she goes and I'm not going to change that.

How are you doing and making out?

Petvet...

I cleared the path for you... so your good to go... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ June 12, 2003, 03:28 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 06/13/03 04:55 AM
Hello everyone!

I too am headed to the beach (Outerbanks) tomorrow - Avondale, maybe we'll pass on the highway.

Today, WH found out that he will be getting a substantial settlement & said the first thing that he is going to do with the money - WE are going on a cruise, the whole family <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> then he said WE are going to pay off our debts <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> and then invest the rest <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EVERYONE- Have a great weekend!

D.

<small>[ June 12, 2003, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/13/03 04:38 PM
Hi All,

Well the weekend is just about here and it sounds like everyone is heading to the beach. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WGTT...

It sounds like your "H" is doing a 180 degree turn. If that's the case what do you think about that, and how are you going to proceed?

You and avondale have fun at the beach.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 06/13/03 09:49 PM
Hey All,

I'm not going to the beach, at least not yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Have a great weekend all.

Happy Father's Day

God Bless,
relady

<small>[ June 13, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/14/03 11:49 AM
Hi all! A lot seems to be going on here. A couple of folks heading to the beach. I'll be heading to the beach myself in three weeks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Things seem to be going relatively well for everyone. Hmmmm?

Mommax8: You are heading in the right direction. Vacation sounds real good.

Avondale: I hope you enjoy your time on the beach. I know of a couple of oldsters who are cohabitating for the same reasons as your father. Mostly due to the woman losing benefits from spouse's company or the military. I know how you feel though; you can understand the reasoning, but something is not right about it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Relady: I know you cannot wait to get to the Bahamas. Thirty five pages nightly is pretty bad punishment from the profs.

Wallace: I'm not afraid. I will take my punishment from the Crew. I happy to hear things are going well in your camp. Your apartment complex is going to find themselves paying out alot of money if they are not careful. Has you son found a job?

Me: I don't follow the zodiacs regularly. I was just curious to find out what it had to say about me and the buddy. You guys are right. You have to take it with a grain of salt. Things are going very well between me and my friend.You are right Relady; I need to stop looking for the dark cloud.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/16/03 02:32 PM
Hi All,

I hope all the fathers out there had a good Father's Day. My kids and I enjoyed the day... and my G/F was there... after plenty of coaxing from me. We all had a great time yesterday.

relady...

No beach for you? It appears that you more than made up for it with a new home in the Bahamas... nice, very nice. Have fun in it... I'm sure your excited to get over there and enjoy it.

Petvet...

Glad to hear that you have smooth sailing and everything is going well for you.

My son and YD still have not been able to find a job yet. We are in pretty sad shape over here... job wise.

I think you might have been referring to EC, concerning the rent issue. I'm still making house payments on my digs... 30 years worth... I just refinanced.

Hope everyones day goes well for them today.

Have a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 06/16/03 04:15 PM
Good Morning All,

I hope everyone had a wonderful Father's Day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And all went well.

Wallace,

No, unfortunately I didn't buy a condo on the beach of my very own. It's a timeshare and I'm going next month. Well, then again I guess I did buy it even if it was only a week! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my G/F was there... after plenty of coaxing from me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why did you have to coax her? Just curious. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

How was your weekend at the beach? Are you well rested?

Petvet

How was Father's Day for you and did your 'buddy' spend the day with you and your son?

Mommax8

How have you been? Have you gone on vacation yet?

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/17/03 03:38 PM
Hi All,

I think I had too much of a whirlwind of a weekend, I'm ready for a vacation... "Father's Day" can and will work you.

relady...

I will still take one week in the Bahamas anytime. It's a great place to be... especially in the months of January and February.

The reason I had to coax my G/F into coming with us on "Father's Day is because she didn't want to intrude on my time with my kids. My kids insisted that she come... so she decided to come.

We all had a great time... too bad the weekends only last so long.

Well I hope everyone has a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/17/03 08:49 PM
Well I'm back, tanner, and a LITTLE more rested (family dynamics came into play during the 5 days so I'm not as rested as I had hoped). I really want my dad to marry this lady - it is toooooo weird having them live together <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

EC - how did your CS Mod (is that for modification?) appointment go?? I hope in your favor! Let us hear from you!

Wallace - I think that is great that your kids asked your g/f to attend your Father's Day event. Maybe they're being a little more open-minded about her now....did her kids come too, or just her? I seem to recall the rift was between all the kids, not necessarily between them and your g/f.

WGTT - That is great about your WH ! I hate to look a gift horse in the mouth, but do you have any reason to think (other than eternal hope and faith) that he will follow through with his promises?

Petvet - What's new with you and your buddy?? Did you do anything about your son talking to his mom about her?

Mx8 - Are you still around or at the beach? An update would be great!

Relady - Good for you, going to the Bahamas! Can you change locations for next year, or will you always go to the same place there? I know some timeshares are flexible like that.

Happy belated Father's Day to all you dads.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/18/03 12:57 AM
Hi guys and gals,

Glad to see everyone moving on and living life.

Well another big day on Thursday for the final CS modification and my exw taking me to court for contempt over $30.00 and other less frivilous things.

Then I'll be filing again in Feb 2004 all over again to end it all, what joy and a ride this has been.

Lastweek laid some guitar tracks for a friends CD. This week my job sent me to school to finish up my PC A+ Certification Training..

YD and OD called me on Fathers Day, that was a shock,I was happy, they both said they sent me a gift, haven't seen nothing from them since 2000, so I can't wait until it arrives whatever it is.

I haven't spoken to exw in months and she itching to talk but I won't give in, I can tell when her and OM are having a down time, then she wants to talk and try to have me fill the void. Each time I called to speak to kids if she answers the phone she tries to extend the greeting with something to open the door but I just answer the question quickly and ask to speak to the girls.

Haven't been much help of late to anybody but I'm sure after Thursday things will look better for me..

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/19/03 02:43 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

It's good to hear that your all tanned and somewhat rested... did you go swimming at the beach?

I'll bet it did feel a little wierd with your father and his G/F there and not being married and all. Do you think he will ask her to marry him?

Glad to hear that all and all it turned out well.

My G/F's kids were not with us on Father's Day... they were out doing other things with their friends. Ironically they didn't spend any time with their father on "Father's Day, so I don't know what to make of that, and neither does my G/F.

EC...

You appear to be moving right along on a positive note... that's good to hear.

You laid down some tracks for your friend's CD... what type of music did you cut tracks for?

Glad to hear that your girls spoke to you on "Father's Day".

I've got my own CS issues still rolling... it is quite amazing. My children and I, haven't spke nor seen my exW in well over a year. At this point in time... I don't think we would have it any other way.

Hope everyone has a nice day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/19/03 04:03 PM
Hi All

Hi Wallace, just passing through. The music type is Gospel Music....

Well, I just got done with my CS mod hearing. They pitched my filing stating I should have recgonized the courts error 1 year ago and too bad on my part, now I have to pay a $5,000 extra for the arrearage. Can you believe that?!! My exw was lying every other word and they believed her on everything yet she had no proof of nothing. They treated me like I was some deadbeat man, yet I had proof of every payment. Get this, they wouldn't even give me a $400 credit I paid over a year ago that I found they mis-calculated, once again they said why come you did'nt bring this up 1 year ago, I said I just discovered it, they said too bad. The court played every game and card they could against me, it's just unreal.

They're making me pay child support for the time I was unemployed in 2001 based on my current salary and not the unemployment dollars earned at the time. Also the day exw filed for DV in 2001 would have been they day they should have morally honored, they said 'No' we're going back further that, so this is where the $5,000 comes in at. She has multiple affairs, cause me to lose my job and I get penalized for it.

Anyway alltogether up until YD emancipates May 2004 I will have to pay total $10,000. If I can come up with $3,000 before then I'll be done on that date otherwise It will extend past then in which I want to be cut loose from exw and shut all doors.

I tell you what, DV and CS courts can be some crooked places. I was mad when I got done but one thing I remembered, WS's are deceived and it's all about [Money],cheating, lying and stealing.

In reality, I make more than $5,000 a year. In reality, all money will continue to blow through her hands. In reality she's the real loser. In reality she inherited a loser (OM). In reality I have been blessed far beyond $5,000. In reality her affliction of Adultery and multiple affairs will hurt her all her lifetime because she continues in them.

More than anything this is not forever and will end oneday soon.

Some may say CS is about your kids and not your exw, problem is CS is spent on exw not the kids, 17 and 19.

Take Care.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 06/19/03 04:18 PM
Hey All,

Hope all is well.

EC

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with you Exw.

My brother is going through the same thing. The courts are awful. He gave his attorney power to sign his name and really got messed up.

It's just amazing to me how women can go out and have affairs and then go to court and demand child support, house equity, etc. and receive it. They are just one huge wrecking ball. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I suggested my brother hire a 'men's rights' attorney. I even agreed to help him pay. There are some, however; He hasn't found one yet.

She will definitely not have good life, that money will be gone in no time. IMHO, if I were you, I would do eveything within my power to give her all the money before next year and get rid of her sooner. And when next year comes, where will she go for money?

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/19/03 07:10 PM
Hey y'all, more rain here in the Tarheel state...

EC - I am sooo sorry to hear about your court outcome. You're right, it certainly isn't "fair" but it's great that you can see REALITY for what it really is! You are much richer than your exw these days, so don't ever forget it!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/20/03 09:04 PM
Hi All,

Well the weekend is just about here, and it's been a busy day for me today... so I'm looking forward to having the 2 days off.

EC...

I'm sorry to hear what has happened to you. Quite frankly, I question the whole judicial system and they way the approach all of this. They don't deal out justice... they herd you in and herd you out like cattle and then let everyone deal with the aftermath. Hopefully people will start waking up... and then we can take the necessary steps to reform some of these laws... or the lack of them.

Prayers for you EC, like the Apostle Paul said... everything in the past is rubbish... look to the future and look to the Lord for your fulfillment.

avondale...

I'll trade you some rain for my lawn for some sunshine for a couple of days. We are in a drought over here, and my lawn needs some extra help.

I hope everyone has a good weekend!

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 06/24/03 10:40 PM
Y'all are on page 2 !!!!

I just got back from the outer banks of NC - what a drive !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Had a really good time at a family reuion & loved OBX. I was the only one who lives at the beach, so they laughed that I came to the beach - but it is different than Florida. My head feels like fluff right now- I am exhausted. My OS & YS drove from the Outer Banks, then stopped in Mertly Beach, Charlston, Savanna, Jacksonville (dropped off OS) then home.

Avondale I am watching WH's actions and not listening to his words as I am in a reserved plan A according to Steve Harley. Either WH is in recovery or he doesn't live here. I have gone on with my life & will be OK either way. I pray for him & know that while he's in Penna that he has not given up the "stuff" - OW & coke. I think it's a good sign that he is taking steps to dispose of business, but he still has a long way to go.

I am saddened by a friend of mine who before I left was on the verge of an A. She plunged in - UGGGGHHHH. She is in my prayers - I could see something different (not good) in her face - but she says she's happy now. We have all heard that one so I wont' elaborate. My heart aches for her.

The mentor program is the best thing I could have done for myself this year. MY whole view on life is changing for the better and I really believe that something REALLY good is waiting for me. I wouldn't be where I am today with out all this crap, just wish I could have learned it without all the pain! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

EC That stinks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> But the best revenge is to live well. It's just money, and you have soooooo much more than that!

everyone else I hope all is well.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/26/03 11:07 AM
Hi folks! I did not realize that I had not posted in over a week. I have been really busy and have just been keeping my head above water.

EC: I sorry to hear about the results from your court hearing. As someone recommended, you want to just try to pay her off and be done with her. People have been recommended that I pay my exw her equity sooner than later to be through with her.

Wallace: I'm glad to hear things are still going well between you and your G/F. I find it amazing that you nor your kids have heard from your exw in over a year.

Avondale: I have to agree with you that your father needs to get married, but you will be amazed at the number of older people who live in sin, so that they won't have to give up benefits.

Relady: It does not matter whether you own the property in the Bahamas or not; a vacation in the Bahamas is a vbacation in the Bahamas. If you don't want to go, give it to me and I will gladly take it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WGTT: The drive to Myrtle Beach and Savannah is a deadly drive from anywhere.

Me: I had a wonderful Father's Day, and the buddy and I are burning all cylinders. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/27/03 05:15 AM
Hi All,
Not a lot going on for me right now, so no news is good news in my case! Although I keep waiting for the "other shoe to drop", since my separation date is July 7 and I just don't know exactly what my WH will do, or if he files for D, I don't know WHEN that will be <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> So you guys had better be around here if and when that happens! ! !

WGTT - Glad you're trip went well! It sounds like you're thinking straight with your "reserved Plan A". You've mentioned your mentor program before - is it work-related, church-related, what? Who's mentoring who, and what's the purpose?

Petvet - It's about time you posted! You said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Me: I had a wonderful Father's Day, and the buddy and I are burning all cylinders. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now THAT'S SCAREY! What does "burning all cylinders" mean, anyway? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Posted By: kily Re: Tough Love - 06/26/03 06:46 PM
Ummmmmm...Guys........excuse me for barging in here, but you talked about kids being questioned on every facet of your life and red flags...

Can I ask you to go into detail about your thoughts on this?

See about two weeks ago DS flipped out on me saying that he's tired of us asking him questions about each other. I was suprisd by this reaction because I make it a point NOT to ask. Knowing hurts too much.

I'm wondering why it's a red flag? What does it signify?

Thanks.
Posted By: Chris -CA123 Re: Tough Love - 06/26/03 07:02 PM
Some may say CS is about your kids and not your exw, problem is CS is spent on exw not the kids, 17 and 19.
Why are you paying cs for a 19 year old?
Also, it may not go DIRECTLY into the child pocket, but isn't food and shelter provided fopr them?
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/27/03 09:49 PM
Hi y'all
Kily , I was hoping that some of the others would get online and respond but it might be a busy week for them. My kids are "grown up", so I don't really have an answer thru personal experience for you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> See about two weeks ago DS flipped out on me saying that he's tired of us asking him questions about each other. I was suprisd by this reaction because I make it a point NOT to ask. Knowing hurts too much. I'm wondering why it's a red flag? What does it signify? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One red flag is that it appears your exh is asking your S questions about you and your life. Maybe he wants to know who you're seeing, how you've moved on,etc... A lot of ex's still want to know what's going on in the lives of those they chose to leave. If he's a manipulative person, or abusive, this could be bad news. If your S had THAT strong of a reaction, he might be caught in the middle, feeling pressure from your H, feeling alliance toward you, etc. And it might be that even though you mean well, you possibly HAVE questioned him in a roundabout way. Next time ask him what he's talking about, maybe he can give specific examples why he feels he's being questioned by you.

I think your question was great, and you should just post it in the D/D forum for responses. I think a lot of people would be able to offer views on it.

Chris - again, I kept hoping EC would get on and personally answer the question you posed. Briefly it had to do with his exw forging birth certificates and time delays. He's tracking the dates and finances and I'm sure he's on top of things. His kids have told him in the past that their mom is NOT using the money for their food and clothing, that they are having to get jobs and support her in many ways.
When are you going to finish what you started with that "married & dating" thread you started a while back? You promised to "discuss it later"....we're waiting!

Wallace - have your kids gotten jobs yet?

Relady - it's the end of the month, I bet you're swamped with closings.

My news: I got an email from hubby today; evidently he just took $2000 from home equity account for personal use, which according to the separation agreement HE initiated, should not have been done. I consulted with lawyer, and responded with an email that pointed out I thought it was wrong to do that, just for the record. I don't want to "bite the hand that I hope feeds me" so I'm playing it cool for now, with a simple response.
Petvet, WGTT, Mx8 - Have a great weekend and post something!

<small>[ June 27, 2003, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/28/03 03:37 PM
Hi All,

Glad to see everyone doing great and moving on in life. Thanks everyone for your support.

Thanks Avondale for giving CA a brief explanantion of my issues, I'm glad you see what I'm going through.

CA: to answer your quote: Why am I supporting a 17 and 19 year old. By law the 17 year old is still a minor. The 19 year I'm done with as far as through the court but she is still my daughter and i'm going to always support her. You see I took care of my kids well and attended every school fuction and activity they were in. Just because my exww decides to go have affairs will not make me take on the mentality that " Oh well since the kids are with her, it's her responsibilty and I'm paying CS I guess I'm doing my part as a man and father'.

My daughters need more than CS. CS doesn't give them what I have to offer as a father, however exw has brainwashed them into thinking I'm this bad awful guy in which that image is very hard to break because they are in her environment. If I call exw a thief, she tells the kids "Your Dad said we're all thiefs'. If I tell exw, I don't appreciate her lifestyle , she'll tell them "Your dad said we're all running around sleeping with everyone" whatever I say she turns it around to them

As Avondale stated exw lies very well and continues to extort money from me using the courts and they allow her to do this.She does not use the CS support money directly on YD, she spends it on herself and I have to hear the cries and wailing of YD and OD of what they don't have. Exw's house is literally empty of furniture, company sits on the floor. They rarely have groceries and rarely cook, YD cries she has no clothes and can't ever get her hair done.

I spoke to YD just yesterday and she just got a job at sonic's, I ask what are you going to do with your first paycheck go out and have some fun? she said no, my clothes are ragedy and I really don't have none, I'm buying me some clothes and putting clothes in layway for school this year.

Latest example: Just last week when I went to court for a modification that was denied. Listed on exw's financial affidavit was this: She listed she is running a deficit -$380 per month,she makes $8,000 more per year than I do, Plus the child support she gets on top of that, she had listed in her expenses that she obtained in March 2003 a Golds Gym membership $65.00 per mth and increased her personal grooming from $120.00 to $160.00, upgraded her internet service from $21.00 to $50.00,many other things.

This is what makes mw mad, the CS is being spent on her. While YD and OD may have a roof over there head thats' fine, but what she is doing to them financially enjecting a poverty mentality into them as she parades her OM(s) in front of them is not right and spends what I'm working for foolishly on herself makes you want to scream.

Here's an example that happened at court exw tried to get for contempt on: She said my OD has a penant in the value of $300.00 that I have in my possession that I will not return, I never heard of such a item. I told the judge she is lying, the judge told me to shut up. I get home and called OD and asked her about this if she ever had some penant she said no and she was puzzled and I said well your mother told the judge you have this thing and I have it in my possession. OD then called me a liar and said her mother would never say such a thing in court, exw then grabs the phone and laughs me to scorn. However Judge told exw if it's true go to small claims court.

My OD really doesn't talk but also I know she needs me more than I need her, I was here first however, I will remain responsible for her well being because I know she is currently decieved. One day her eyes will open and when they do, I don't want to be in a position where I have turned my back on her and disowned and rejected her, yet I have let go and decided to let her reachout a little to me. Just because the courts came between my family because of exww affairs and adultery don't mean I'm giving up my life long vow to my kids, Dad will always be there in every way, child support can never take my place in there lives. Next year when it's all finished or if I pay it off before then....The kids will realize there source and exw's dirty work will be exposed, I'm sure she's going to push them out of the house or make them pay full rent when that time comes, because she's selfish and blows money.

Take Care
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/30/03 09:12 PM
Hi All,

Nothing new happening...Here are some relationship words that may get you what you want or get you in trouble.

* Women will appreciate any sincere compliment, but when a man puts a little more thought into his words, she will like it more. . . . The more special the adjective, the more special she feels. These are some examples:

PLAIN COMPLIMENT (PC) vs. JUICY COMPLIMENT (JC)
PC, That is a nice picture. JC, You are incredibly artistic.
PC, You look good tonight. JC, You look magnificent tonight.
PC, You have a nice smile. JC, You have a radiant smile.
PC, You look good. JC, You are so gorgeous.
PC, You look nice. JC, You are so lovely.
PC, You look nice. JC, You look beautiful.
PC, That is a nice dress. JC, You look so exquisite in that dress.
PC, You have nice eyes. JC, You have such a special sparkle in your eyes.

Even a plain compliment can be juiced up with any of these five simple words: so, really, very, always, and such.

[For example, to juice up the most basic compliment, "You look nice."]
1. You look so nice. (attraction)
2. You look really nice. (interest)
3. You look very nice. (enthusiasm)
4. You always look nice. (familiarity)
5. You have such a nice look. (pride)

To express more feeling in a compliment, he can just repeat
any of these words or combine them like this:
1. You look so, so nice
2. You really look so nice.
3. You look very, very nice.
4. You always look so nice.
5. You really have such a nice look.

Women can also use these five words to express more
feeling in their indirect compliments to a man. Let's apply
these five words to one of the most basic compliments that
any man loves to hear, "I am happy we did this."

1. I am so happy we did this.
2. I am really happy we did this.
3. I am very happy we did this.
4. I am always happy to do this.
5. I am so happy; I had such a good time.

* When a woman talks about problems, a man mistakenly assumes that she is asking him what to do about them.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/01/03 01:02 AM
EC
I'm gonna assume those "tips" were for Wallace, Petvet, WGTT, and perhaps yourself, since I am not seeing any guys (nor do I plan to in the near future) and I don't think Relady is, either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

One week from today will be a year of separation for me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> but I think I'm doing OK. Will let you know next Monday if not before. Hope it's a good week for you all!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/01/03 04:11 AM
HI Avondale,

Well I guess you could say those words are for the loverboys and girls, I guess it'll only turn up the flame <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I remember going through the one year anniversay seperation deal in early 2002 it was amazing how fast time had went. I look back now and just marvel that I've been going through this since 2000.

It's funny I thought after the divorce the WS would leave you alone since they got who and what they wanted however my exw keeps the attack going. As I said it seems as I get closer to the end the harder the battle is getting. All I can keep in mind is that Judas end was once he acted out the betrayal and got the money he was done but yet it did not fulfill his desire or purpose and his eyes came open to shame and defeat.

All WS's eyes will come open one day and when they do what an awful site they will see of there actions whether in this lifetime or the eternal Judge they must face who hates divorce. What a way to go out and not be right with the lord, the lord has grace for our sins but there is a reason why he said 'sin no more' regarding the same issue that destroys the soul.

Take Care
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/01/03 06:11 PM
Hey All,

I'm still alive and well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I took a trip back East to see my mom. It was the 'spur of the moment', just felt like seeing the one person who loves me regardless. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Avondale

I'm not really swamped, but enough to keep me busy. My assistant took care of most of it while I was gone.

I'm coming up on one year as well. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I still haven't heard anything.

Doesn't your H have to replace the money? Can you close your equity line?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not seeing any guys (nor do I plan to in the near future) and I don't think Relady is, either.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are sooooo right!

Petvet

NO, you cannot have my week in the Bahamas! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I really need this. It seems like I've been on 'brain overload' this last year.

EC

Funny thing about child support. It's true they never use it for the children! My brother pays CS for two children, and my 16YO niece has a job. Well her mother makes her pay for her clothes, food and anything else she can get away with. How mean is that?

What did you guys do to Wallace while I was gone?

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/01/03 11:58 PM
Relady, you should have told me you were coming my way (East coast) and maybe we could have hooked up somehow! Glad you got to see your mom <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Not sure what the deal is with an AWOL Wallace! Petvet is also hiding from us... Hmmm...

<small>[ July 01, 2003, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/02/03 03:51 PM
Hi all,

Sorry I haven't been around for awhile. I've had a number of things come up which has kept me very busy.

My Aunt died just recently, and I'm being hit for back taxes due to my exW not claiming the proper tax withholdings (looks like she filed exempt), and I'm trying to decide my best way to take with the least amount of damage to myself and my kids.

It's been hectic to say the least.

If I don't get a chance to wish everyone a "Happy Fourth of July"... I'll do it now.

"HAPPY FOURTH OF JULY"!!!

Some good news though... my OS got his job back with his old Company... less money of course and more responsiblilties, and my daughter got a job working in a grocery store for the summer... so that's all good.

Needless to say... I'm furious over this latest incident with my exW. I'm going to look at amending my return and file married for the year 2001, but file seperately... since it's all her tax money that she owes. I'm so sick of having to pay for her screw-ups... and I believe they were intentional.

I may even file suit against her for damages. I know I won't collect a dime from her... but her credit will be toast for a long period in time.

My exW is like a haunting that won't stop... I'm at wit's end with her.

Have a good weekend everyone... I'll be in touch.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Chris -CA123 Re: Tough Love - 07/02/03 04:03 PM
It's funny I thought after the divorce the WS would leave you alone since they got who and what they wanted
That's what most people assume will happen. Divorce almost NEVER, EVER solves any of the real problems in the realtionship.
Posted By: Chris -CA123 Re: Tough Love - 07/02/03 04:16 PM
Wallace,
Don't know what your tax problem is but look at Innocent Spouses and Request for Innocent Spouse Relief
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/02/03 04:55 PM
Hi Chris,

Hey, thanks for the links... I will check them out and see if there is some relief I can find and get out of all of this.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/02/03 08:02 PM
Hi again everyone,

Chris...

I went through the links that you posted... and all I can say is Thank you very much!!!

What a Godsend... It appears that I qualify for "Seperation of Liability" as an injured spouse at the time of the tax filing.

I will be filing the necessary forms tonight.

Thanks again for your input on this... you don't know how much you have just helped me.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Chris -CA123 Re: Tough Love - 07/02/03 08:19 PM
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/05/03 07:24 PM
Hi All,

Hope everyone is doing fine and had a wonderful 4th July.

I received a odd letter in the mail. The court wants to rehear my modification case again they think they may have made a mistake in final judgment after the hearing officer slammed me giving me no chance to be heard and may want to do a possible overturn in judgment which would eliminate any arrearage amount.Is this wild or what? I thought it was over but they want to hear it again. The facts I have on file they must have reviewed after it was over because some things they said in the letter was not mentioned during the court session 2 weeks ago because the hearing officer shut me down I could tell she didn't read what I filed. It's in late Aug.

Take Care.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/06/03 06:08 PM
Hey y'all
It's been an enjoyable 3 day weekend for me! Hope the same for everyone else <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC - That's GREAT news! Too bad you have to wait until August, but I am sure truth will prevail! I wonder at who figured out there had been a miscarriage of justice, and at what point it was realized?
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/07/03 09:38 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a good Fourth of July weekend.

EC...

That sounds like maybe you might get a reprieve on your CS issue. It looks like someone is looking after you on this one.

avondale...

Glad to hear that you had a good weekend... speaking of weekends... my YD had the strangest occurance this past weekend.

She had just started working for the summer at this grocery store, which is just right up the street from where we live. At about 8:00 p.m. that night, while my daughter was helping people at the only check out stand that was open at that time... low and behold... who walks up?

Her Mother!!!

Now get this... her mother didn't even acknowledge her... at all. No hello how are you... nothing!!!

Needless to say... my daughter just bagged her food, and told her to have a nice day.

My daughter said she felt like something right out of the "Twilight Zone". She still can't believe it. Her mom has not spoken to her or seen her or anyone else in our household... up until then, for almost a year and half.

I just told my YD that their is evidently something wrong mentally with your mother... that it wasn't worth concerning yourself with... and that if she would like to talk about it, we could talk... but I probably could not give her a logical explanation for her mother's actions.

Now here is the really strange part... yes it gets even stranger. Her mother lives on the farthest side of the City you could live... it's probably a good 1/2 hour or better drive to our house and/or grocery store she was shopping in.
So what is she doing shopping for groceries in a store that she always contended that she hated?

This whole ordeal has been by far... the strangest thing I have ever come across.

Needless to say I'm still up to my eyeballs in all the legal and financial mess she is still trying to throw my way.

Aside from that everyone is doing pretty good. My Son's Birthday is today, so I'm going to try to have a nice Birthday party for him tonight... dinner with the family and my G/F will be there as well. Then we will open gifts at our home.

Well everyone have a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/07/03 11:27 PM
Hi Wallace, sorry to hear about your ordeal with your exw, I wonder if mine would be the same if I saw her, It must be return of the exww envasion. My exw called me and asked if I got my letter from the court then said she's going to request they credit me my money I claim she took 1 year ago when I gave her that check that she used for her own purpose. What's funny she said she don't remember anything about it but she'll do it anyway since I have a check memo CS and proof to the court. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I brought attention of those extortion papers she gave me 6 months ago up in court she probably thinks the court may want to look at this now, so she's back tracking now....However before she hung up she called me a @@&&#*(*&#&!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Ouch <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Uhcha, Uhcha <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/08/03 01:24 AM
Wallace, I am incredulous, so I'm sure you must be a zillion times moreso. You're right, your exww has mental problems. The only other reason I could think of would be she was over there to see her old haunts, or had heard YD was working at the store and wanted to see how far she could go with being that close to her. (Almost like what a stalker might think, I suppose.) I hope your YD is OK and not dwelling on it too much. That occurance could really add more rejection in her mind and we certainly don't want that!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/08/03 11:53 AM
Hi all! Once again, I apologize for my absence from you guys and gals. I've not had as much time to hit the web like I would like.

Relady: How was the Bahamas?

Avondale: I hope you are doing well. Did anything happen on yesterday?

EC: You may want to consult an attorney to see what you can do to reduce your CS payments because of the evidence that money does not go to the kids and your ex seems to be living off the hog. Also, I can tell you are romantic by your gestures and words. Woman should be swarming towards you.

Wallace: I know what you mean as far as the tax issue is concern.

Me: Yes, Buddy and I are getting along well. We just spent a couple of days in Florida with our kids. She is a good woman. I think my exw is going to get very angry when she finds out that my Buddy accompanied me on vacation. As a matter of fact, exw showed up at 6:45 am on my door step unannouced. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> She has been doing some odd things lately trying to check up on me. This week is going to be interesting. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> She said that I am trying to bring another woman into the house. I wish she would stay out of my business.

And I'm gone!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/09/03 12:21 AM
Hi Petvet,

Glad to hear from you... Nothing was meant by those words just a ouch <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> however a good dip of downboy will never hurt for the ladies <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

See ya!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/09/03 01:32 AM
OK,
I am thinking everyone here needs some "downboy" except me, since I'm Ms Celibate <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> In fact, one dip won't do...You guys need to soak in it, especially Petvet, LOL

Relady , where are you? Still being a Bahama mama?

Still nothing new here, just waiting to see what's next in my life. Catch y'all later!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/09/03 04:41 AM
Hey All,

I hope everyone had a good 4th. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I haven't been to the Bahamas yet, I'll be leaving on the 19th. This summer class is killing me. All homework has to be done before I leave and when I return I have a final. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> So, that means taking my book with me and trying to get in a little studying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC

What a testimony! Prayer does work doesn't it? Just sit back and watch.

Wallace

Your daughter is one awesome young lady! To be able to keep her composure during one of the more horrible experiences in her life! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Your wife is definitely a mental case! It surely wasn't because she didn't recognize her. Or maybe drugs have distorted her vision, LOL

Avondale

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am thinking everyone here needs some "downboy" except me, since I'm Ms Celibate </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't include me in the everyone, I'm Ms Celibate2 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I was in Ohio last week. Are you further down the east coast? My family lives there. I rented a Mustang Convertible, had a great time. However at the end of five days, I was glad to give it back. It's so low, I sometimes just rolled out of it!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It's been a year for me now and nothing is new!! I'm not sure you remember, but my friend whose husband left her in September, has filed for divorce. She's hired a top notch attorney and moving on!

Petvet

Aren't you just having a swell time? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> No wonder you wanted my condo in the Bahamas!! Of course you had separate rooms. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/10/03 03:06 PM
Hi All,

You know what I need, and it's not "Downboy"... it's sleep!!!

I have been so busy these last several weeks... it has been unbelievable.

Well I finally got all the tax info put together and mailed out today... what a pain this has all been... and it just keeps on coming. You would think that things would settle down and taper off to somewhat of whatever normal is anymore... but it just doesn't happen.

My YD is still having a hard time dealing with what happened concerning her mother... it is hard to believe that a mother could be so callous... but my personal opinion is, is that my exW has some real issues that she needs to deal with.

Well I hope everyone has a good day today... I know I'm going to try.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/11/03 04:00 PM
Hi all,
Not a whole lot going on here. I knew that hubby was renting out his local apt. while he's out of town at school, but today I found out that when he comes back to town on weekends he's been staying with - get this - HIS PARENTS! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Now this doesn't surprise me, since after all, he IS their son. However, I know in his mind this is one more piece of "validation", that leaving me for another woman is OK and that everyone has gotten over it and is accepting his decision as "right". (I know they don't, but hey, he's their son/brother). Ironically, these are the parents that he scoffed as being "not sophisticated" and wouldn't invite them to hear some of his concerts, LOL

Wallace , how's your daughter doing these days? Any more conversations about seeing her mom?

Relady - I hope you're hanging in there with your class. Does it help to keep your mind busy and off the circumstances? Too bad you have to take your classwork on your trip! I live in NC, btw.

Petvet - You mentioned that your exw was acting weird. Anything more happen yet? Is it possible that the fact you went on vacation with your buddy would conflict any divorce agreement regarding custody of your son?

EC - Is there any more update regarding your papers and back money from your exw? Do your daughters have plans to come see you this summer?

WGTT - I haven't seen you lately, maybe you're still sailing in the Atlantic <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope everyone has a good weekend!

<small>[ July 11, 2003, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/11/03 07:10 PM
Hi Everyone,

Happy Friday!!

Avondale - I haven't heard anything yet, the court date is not until Aug. I feel like I've been in court for years now but I've learned a lot. I never knew exw was such a gold digger. I'm all for a person getting there equal share of what they built together. What's more interesting is I never contested anything from the start, I've been on the defense for my soul...

My kids are not coming for the summer. In fact at this point I've lost hope of ever seeing them again for another 5 years.

It's like this, exw has put it in there head, I'm pure scum and some deadbeat father. They have all kinds of thoughts but none true. Until they grow up and start wanting to know the truth and a relationship, I can't keep chasing them, YD will be 18 in 3 months, OD will be 20 in 6 months. Once I'm done with child support in 10 months, everything God has for me will manifest because without money your dreams and visions are hindered and limited, yet during this time I have developed my plans and discipline.

My goal is to be debt free before the end of 2004 in which I am still getting there. Right now my kids see me as not having anything, them not knowing what exw has put me through, but oneday soon, they'll see the wealthy guy I was held back from becoming as the enemy tried to steal everything he could.

Joseph went from the pit to the palace and Job had twice as much as before in the end.

Take Care.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/13/03 12:49 AM
Hey All,

I hope everyone is having a great weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm busy working trying to get things together before I leave next Saturday. No Cell Phone, no pager, no email, HOORAY Only beach, water and sun <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Wallace

I'm glad you found a solution to your tax problem. When the IRS gets on your case, there is no let up until they get what they want!

Have you thought of talking to your exw and asking why she did what she did besides being mental? There may be an answer that will help your YD better understand what happened.

Avondale

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope you're hanging in there with your class. Does it help to keep your mind busy and off the circumstances? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Funny you should ask. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I was thinking the other day that I have been separated one year, and thats really the only circumstance. I don't know what he's doing or who he's doing, so God is good and He has truly given me a peace that surpasses all understanding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And life goes on. As long as I keep my thoughts under control, I'm fine.

School keeps me busy, however; my business is my highest priority right now.

EC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right now my kids see me as not having anything, them not knowing what exw has put me through, but oneday soon, they'll see the wealthy guy I was held back from becoming as the enemy tried to steal everything he could </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think they see you that way at all. I'm sure they see what your exw is doing and has put you through.

Sometimes it's when they become parents. But remember, God will restore what the locusts have eaten!! In His time, not ours. He definitely has a plan for you, just keep believing Him.

Well back to work <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/14/03 01:46 PM
Hi Everyone!

Hi Avondale and Relady

Praise the Lord!!

My weekend was pretty good, had a chance to sort some things out. I was looking back at some notes I wrote down last year during some study time and guess what " The biblical root word for ' Divorce' is 'Destroy'. The enemy comes to kill, steal and destroy. As you see in marriage the enemy works in a process...

First: Kill - Plants the wondering eye and deceptive imaginations...Greener grass syndrome)

Second: Steal - The secret luring away to touch what they imagined..the illusion, lust for others has consumed them, lost from reality and self, la, la land, becomes someone else, I don't love you anymore, we're different, not compatible, seperation...

Third - Destroy - Divorce, broken spirits, wounded souls, extreme guilt and shame.....

We the betrayed spouse may feel the effects of there actions and captivity but if we keep our focus on the Lord through the storm we will be victorious through the battle....
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/14/03 03:19 PM
Hi all,

I hope everyone had a great weekend. I tried to get as much done as I could this weekend... but I still have a long way to go.

avondale...

My YD hasn't really said much about her Mom for quite a few days now. I think she has come to the realization that in her mind, her Mom really wasn't a very good mother... in fact she made a comment last night, that she wished my G/F would of been her mother... all of a sudden she and my G/F are getting along rather well. In fact they are both going together to get their hair done sometime this week. My YD is a real trooper... she has been through quite a bit since this all started.

She is concentrating on her summer job for now. I think it's good that she is working... keeps the mind from wandering.

relady...

I think it's great that your getting ready to go on vacation. I was going to take off for about a week... but there is just too many things up in the air right now... especially with the IRS.

I filed the necessary paper work with the IRS, and hopefully they will relieve me of the responsibilty of having to pay my exW's share of her unclaimed taxes for the 2001 year.

As far as talking to my exW... that from my end is totaly out of the question. There is absolutely nothing that I would want to discuss with her. Even if I was to talk with her... I would only more lies and deceit coming from out of her mouth... I've had my fill of that. She is in fact a pathalogical liar... always was... and unfrotunately always will be.

Have fun on the beach when you go on vacation!!!

EC...

It's unfortunate that your probably not going to see your daughters for quite some time. I'm very sorry to hear that things did not work out for you concerning seeing them this summer.

From all appearances it does sound like your exW is not in anyway encouraging them to come visit you.

I believe that in time... your daughter's will come to the realization that you were not the bad guy in all of this. It happened with my kids... it took my kids a few years to sort it all out, but eventually they saw everything in it's true color.

Petvet...

O.K., I think you maybe having too good of a time now, that's why we haven't heard from you... LOL

Have a good day all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ July 14, 2003, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/16/03 11:40 AM
Hi all! I don't want to sound like a old record, but I have been trying to uncover myself from all the workload of being a single parent and maintaining a household and of course keeping Buddy happy.

Wallace: I need to go back and find out what happened to your younger daughter. I would recommend taking some time off for vacation even if it's a small trip. It seems like your GF is jelling with your family well.

Avondale: As we have said before, blood is thicker than water. Your in-laws are probably between a rock and a hard place. I understand where you are coming from.

Relady: I envision you on the beach tanning with those books in your hands. Don't get mad and toss the books in the ocean. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

EC: In spite of what your exw does to look, keep moving forward. Act on your dreams one small step at a time.

Me: In response to Avondale or Relady, we did sleep in separate rooms. Remember the kids were with us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Buddy's daughter has been watching us like a hawk whenever I come over. She told her mom that I am going to take her mother away from her. My attempts to reassure her have gone unheeded. Daughter has become extra protective of her mom since our trip. I don't know what's going on.

Later.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/16/03 11:46 AM
Wallace: I read the incident between your daughter and her mom. You don't think your exw is checking on you, do you? I can imagine your exw not speaking to her daughter. She was probably in shock. What can her mom say and maintain a straight face?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/16/03 04:35 PM
Petvet - Thanks for clarifying your vacation arrangements, it's a load off my mind! I would imagine Buddy's daughter's protectiveness is normal of a child that age. Time will lessen that, I'm sure.

Wallace - That is great that your YD and g/f are getting along better now. Does the same hold true for your other kids and g/f ? What about g/f's kids and you?

Relady - I know you're counting the days - 4 days until you leave! Lucky you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'll be praying anti-hurricane prayers for ya!

EC - I'm glad you realize that one day your kids WILL know the truth about you, money, and exw. Fortunately it's not what people, even your kids, think of you that counts, and you realize what is really important.

Me - Yesterday was my birthday. Got a lot of cards from friends. Didn't get card (with usual $25 check) from in-laws, although they did call me. Actually I'm glad in a way that they took the initiative to not do it, so I wouldn't feel bad. So I guess things are winding down, or at least settling somewhat, in that relationship. And hubby left a card and a gift of fancy tea in the mailbox. Brand of tea: Dragon seed, for rejuvenation, LOL He knows I love tea, but what's up with THAT? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Btw, I put the unopened card in the closet where the unopened Christmas gifts from him are. Just can't go there emotionally, yet.

Hope everyone's week is going well!

<small>[ July 16, 2003, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/16/03 06:52 PM
Hi Everyone...

Happy Birthday Avondale <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I guess another year has come and gone but more than anything you're alive and well!!....

I don't know why your hubby is leaving cards, tea, etc...who knows? I'm amazed he's staying with his mother, I guess she's probably short of changing his diaper too... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You stay strong and enjoy life, one day you'll be able to open those gifts and card without any hurt feelings attached at all.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/16/03 08:39 PM
Hi all,

Petvet...

Hang in there... starting a new relationship IMHO is quite a bit of work... especially if there is kids involved. It's a balancing act for sure... and I learn something new everyday due to it. But it gets better as time goes on.

The children start to realize that life as they new it has changed... and the situation they find themselves in is not a fluke. I think they worry about the stability of their lives and how it may or may not change with someone new in the picture. They have all been through enough unpleasant changes... and the last thing they want... is another unpleasant change.

I think you will find, the more stable your relationship is with your buddy... the more accepting her child will become of you.

avondale...

"Happy Birthday"!!!

I have to agree with EC... what's up with that? the tea and all... look at it this way though... at least he thought of you on your Birthday, so it can't be all bad

I have given up on trying to follow the actions of a WS, only because their actions are so illogical it will drive you insane trying to make any sort of sense out of it.

I guess, just try to accept whatever comes your way based on what they do or don't do, and don't put much thought towards your WH's actions... it's not worth it.

EC...

How are you making out with your CS issue? Mine is just floundering in the breeze. Of course, if the shoe was on the other foot... I would probably be in jail for doing the things my exW has done.

My belief in the Judicail system after all this went down is at about zero.

Have you heard anything more from your daughters?

Me...

I'm still stuck in the same old, same old, situations... so nothing really new on my end.

To answer your question avondale... my OS and my YD get along very well with my G/F at this point, and I get along well with all of her kids. So far, so good at this point in time.

My OD has not been in touch with any of us since "Father's Day", and she missed my son's "Birthday which was on July the 7th. So right at the moment... she has dropped a few more notches as far as me wanting to continue communicating with her. I do believe that she is in communication with my exW. It's my belief that my OD is telling my exW everything that is going on in my family's life, but she is not willing to give us the apartment number of where my exW lives so the CS enforcement people can deal with her.

Needless to say... I'm not very happy with her at this point in time.

relady...

When you get to the beach... send us a postcard and let us know how your doing!!!

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/17/03 03:18 PM
Hi Everyone

Hi Wallace,

I spoke to my YD over the weekend she seem to want to talk a little, we talked a little about her future of going to college and preparing. I'm so amazed when I talk to her about logical living her mind is so blocked by the financial struggle. Example: I say how about doing this or that? Her Immediate answer before even thinking is " That cost money, we don't have any money"...I was like gee? It was such simple things I was suggesting.....

I guess living in an empty house over time and never having money will put you in that frame of mind....

Hey, I see you're about on the same path with your OD..Mine treats me the same way, she's still distant...

I feel when I go to court in Aug, this will be the last time before the end in May 2004 and I can put a close to this part of the DV...by then I'll just have about 8 months left of CS...I may just throw a big kool-aid and soda bash celebration in May...I'm more excited not for the sake of not paying CS anymore but being free from under the legal tie to exw...AT this point if anybody messed up in payments whether my employer or the courts I could go to jail..That's not fair when you were a family man and love your kids and a WW has her affairs and gets you caught up in the legal system.

I can't wait for the Aug court date because I know that was a total act and miracle of God that they want to rehear the case. I thought it was done and over and accepted my unjust punishment, but we will see what happens..

Ps 18:

17 He delivered me from my strong enemy, and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me. 18 They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the LORD was my stay. 19 He brought me forth also into a large place; he delivered me, because he delighted in me.
20 The LORD rewarded me according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/18/03 11:37 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: Happy Belated Birthday! The gift fron hubby might not be a bad thing. If you are not going to open the gifts and cards, just send them back to him. I know you are wondering what inside the cards. In my opinion, don't have the cards around if you don't want to read the messages in them. Sending the cards back will send a message to him. That's opinion. He does not know that the cards have not been opened. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wallace: Just as I thought. I knew that the encounter between exw and yd was not an accident. Your od probably is feeding info to your exw.

Relady: Last chance, do you really want to enjoy the hot steamy sun of the Bahamas? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I would be more than happy to go for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Besides, you have studying to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/18/03 07:34 PM
Hi All,

Well finally, this time tomorrow I'll be doing the limbo, 'how low can you go' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> If they hold it 6ft up, that should be enough room for me to get under it. LOL

EC

Thanks for the message, they always have a way of ministering to me at the right time.

Wallace

I'll save a postcard for when I come to your wedding in April. YIKES! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Petvet

You are soooooo funny! hahahahahaha The books are packed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Whether I look at them is a different story.

Avondale

I guess we have more in common than we think, my birthday was last week! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Had anyone heard from mommax8?

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/18/03 10:24 PM
Hey everyone,

Well I'm starting to wind down from work and I'm getting ready for the weekend.

EC...

I'm with you... I think it's a miracle from God that the Courts decided to rehear your case. I don't have much faith in the Court system though... but I hope that nothing but good things come your way after they finally hear and really look at the truth.

My OD and I are drifting very far apart unfortunately. I think for some reason, she chose to come over to my house to get information and give it to my exW.

My exW knows what she has done... and the possible legal ramifications behind it all. I think she was using my OD to get a feel of when the boom was going to drop on her.

My OD knows that she will not be getting anymore info from me as far as anything that is personally involving me or my family. I do believe that she is trying to get info from my YD, but at the moment my YD says that she has not spoken with her since Father's Day either... so who knows? I surely don't know where my exW is getting her info.

Petvet...

I don't think it was by chance that my exW showed up where my YD worked. I think it was planned, and I think she knew that my YD was there. I just don't understand what she intended to do or say when she met up with my YD. I don't understand the motivation on that one.

relady...

Have a good time on the beach... and don't pick-up any stray beach bums while your there... LOL... j/k <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'll get a postcard when you come to my wedding in April?

LOL... my G/F does want a Spring wedding, maybe in about 3 to 4 more years... then we may be ready to get married. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

avondale...

What do you think you will do with the presents that your "H" gave you?

If it means anything... My children or myself have not heard one word from my exW's side of the family. Not on their Birthdays or any other holiday for that matter. I guess it runs in the exW's family... when one person divorces the other... the whole family is set adrift and forgotten. I'm not sure which is worse... what you have got going on over there, or what I've got going on over here. Neither one sounds very delightful

mommax8...

If your out there let us know how you are doing.

Everyone, have a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/24/03 01:46 AM
OH NO
We cannot let this thread go off to page three!

Nothing new with me. What's going on with y'all?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Posted By: Eduard Re: Tough Love - 07/24/03 02:04 AM
Tough Love / Plan B is really hard to stick to. WS left me a letter sounding like she was coming to certain realizations which just set me back in my train of thought and what I was working on. I knew the principle of Plan B and it protecting you, but now I really know why. It is so tempting to not talk back to her, but instead I used the middle person to tell her some things I needed to (not love related). Is that almost the same as communicating regularly?

They don't call it Tough Love for nothing!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/24/03 11:27 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: What do you mean by your page three reference? The thread has been going for quite some time.

Eduard: If you have kids with your WS, it's very hard to maintain Plan B to its full extent. I would just keep communication on a as needed basis.

Wallace: Why would your OD cross you like she is doing? Has this always been a problem?

EC: I'm glad to hear that you are getting a new hearing.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/24/03 03:51 PM
Hey everyone,

I've had quite a bit going on here lately, so I haven't had much time during the day or at night.

avondale...

Have you heard anything from your "H" lately? I know you were kind of gearing up for him to possibly file papers because the alotted time had passed.

Anything new in that area?

Eduard...

Plan B and the "Tough Love" method is a very difficult road to go down and maintain. It IMHO the road of last resort... when all else fails.
It does get somewhat easier to maintain as time passes on, but it is by far not an easy road to travel.

Petvet...

How are you doing? Are things getting any better with your Buddy's child?

Me...

To answer your question Petvet... I don't know why my OD would carry on the way she is, but she is.

I'm still dealing with the same old stuff. CS issues, and now they want to jack up my property taxes fight out the roof... so we are in appeals situation with that.

I also have got a situation with my G/F's exH that I will tell you about later.

Gotta run.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/24/03 07:24 PM
Ok,

My turn to check in <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hi everyone!.....Nothing new happening, just moving along trying to live life.

I'm finally starting to pay down my bills more rapidly and creditors have taken partial settlements.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

What's funny now is I remember when exww left and I had no job or nothing creditors were calling often back then....Now becoming debt free, I have nobody to talk on the phone as often <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...I can answer the phone without caller id, LOL.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm not ashamed to say what happened, my hardships and where I was during my hardest time in the pit because I was put in the pit by my exww but what she didn't know was I had a Palace mentality. Truth will always rise back to the top. Adversity is the wind that pushes you into new and greater things. Just as a puddle on the ground is as a mirror seeing a reflection of yourself. What you see <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> when looking down is a person standing tall, looking down you see the sky, you see no limit..

Next time you're looking down, feeling hurt, hopeless or worthless, <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> remember that the puddle speaks a vision and a truth that the person in the mirror stands tall looking down yet looking up..

My motto: Put me down if you want, I'll just keep climbing to the top, I may look like I'm down, but down is going up, I see me and the sky in the puddle <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The Joy of the Lord is my Strength!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take Care
Posted By: Eduard Re: Tough Love - 07/24/03 07:36 PM
No kids here pet vet (one of the contributing factors to the A because of W's infertility).

I think I might be sending the OMW a letter today. I'm really scared to make a big LB to the W and not be able to make up for it by meeting EN's but we'll see <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/24/03 10:29 PM
Eduard - Plan B (a.k.a. Tough love) really is the final last-ditch effort. It's not something to enter into lightly because if it doesn't work, you've really burned some bridges behind you. It appears as if things have just recently happened in your situation. Are you sure that position is where you want to be?

You are certainly welcome on this thread whatever road you choose. It seems like you haven't even had the opportunity to try "Plan A" yet. Is that right, or am I missing something in your story that I don't understand?

Petvet - What I meant was that this thread was the last post at the bottom of page two - almost on page three - which we can't let happen.

Relady - I hope she's having a great time in the islands <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Wallace - What's the deal with the g/f ExH ??

EC - I know getting some of those bills gone will be such a big blessing to you! You can have a bill burning party when they're all paid off. See? I'm looking for a legitimate party to go to!

Me - Nothing new here. I am just kind of waiting on something, not sure what. I'm figuring now that my birthday has just passed, he will probably file for D. Although God can also smack him up on side of the head with a 2x4 to get sense into him too, LOL (which is my personal preference, of course). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yesterday the kids and I drove down to SC to see my dad, first time seeing his new house, it was a wonderful pleasant trip for everyone.

Y'all have a great weekend!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/26/03 05:37 AM
Hi all,

You know... I think relady should have taken a lap top down to the Bahamas with her. That way she could of given us a daily report on what was going on and telling us how much fun she was having... what do ya think? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC...

As unfortunate as it is... your exW and my exW sounds like they were working from the same game plan. My exW tried to ruin me financially as well... and she almost succeeded.

I'm with you... when I look into the puddle... I see all of the wonderful things that the Lord has surrounded me with.

We took some really good hits... but guess what?
We are still standing!!! Without God in my life, I'm not sure that would of been the case.

I figured out the meaning to life finally... it's to serve and love God and get to know him as best I can. It took me many years to find that... so for me... it was a huge awakening.

Your moving forward EC, in a positive direction. You have your head screwed on tight, and you have the Lord in your life. With all that going for you... you can't go wrong.

Keep up the good work!

Eduard...

Regarding letting the OMW know what's going on by sending her a letter.

IMHO, this is a huge LB for your wife if she finds out you sent it. If it was me, and I was in your position, I would send the letter informing the OMW about what is going on... but I wouldn't let the OMW know it was you. It will shine some light on what is transpiring between your "W" and the OMM without putting you in harms way. Yes it's sneaky... but your playing in a hardball situation right now. It's the old saying. "Alls fair in love and war".

I would rethink the Plan B./Tough Love approach without first trying Plan A..

If you haven't already worked a Plan A. yet, you may want to jump into Plan A first. You are still in the very early stages of everything to be jumping right into Plan B.

I would work a good Plan A. first. Set yourself a time frame that you know that you can live with (and be honest with yourself), and if you haven't seen any significant changes, then go into Plan B.

avondale...

I agree with you... we can't let this thread go to page 3., it's just not right... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Glad to hear that you had a nice trip to see your Dad.

Do you really think that your "H" waited till after your Birthday before serving you papers?

I personally think that all the WSs need to have God smack them up side their heads with a 2x4 to put some sense in their heads... someday he will.

Speaking of getting smacked up side the head... this is what I wanted to tell all of you about.

My G/F's exH got smacked upside his head and came to the realization that he made a huge mistake and now is trying to get back with her.

My G/F told me that he calls her just about everyday, and according to her he calls not to talk about their kids or anything pertaining to family business. According to her... he wants to be a cake eater again, and she said she will have no part of it.

She also stated to me that she was going to tell him to quit bothering her, and only call her for things that pertained to family only. Her kids all have their own cell phone, so he can call them on their phones anytime he wants to, to make any sort of arrangements that he wants.

Well needless to say... he is still calling her, and she has not handled the situation as she said she would.

I told her that I appreciated her honesty for telling me everything, but she needed to make a decision. I decided in my own mind that I didn't want to interfer with anything that they may or may not want to get resolved. So I told her that I would step out of the way and they could see if they wanted to make another go of it. She stated that it wasn't what she wanted, and that was not necessary, that she would tell him.

So now, she is screening her calls so she doesn't have to talk to him, which I think is wrong. She should confront the situation head-on and either tell him to go and get a life, or try to reconcile with him.

I told her that she has to do one or the other, or I would decide for her ( I was going to stop seeing her and just move on with my life).

I indicated to her, that I just divorced a traveling circus sideshow, and I wasn't about to enter into another one.

Am I out of line with this mode of thinking, or do you think I have some valid points here.

Any input is appreciated.

Well everyone... all of you have a great day and a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/26/03 04:41 PM
Wallace
Seems like you have a lot going on there...Several things came to my mind reading about your most recent situation. I’ll lay them out here:

1) Most everyone who has experienced separation or divorce harbors secret hopes for the WS to reconcile. I know at some point this becomes unrealistic (such as with your situation today). But with my situation, I still have hope, and will probably hold onto it for a while, even after a divorce. However, where is that “secret hope” with your g/f for her exh? Could she still be hoping for him to get his act together? Is this something she can answer truthfully to herself - and truthfully to you?

2) Could your g/f be telling you this to make you jealous, or make you move along the road to marriage faster? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It seems very possible.

3) I agree with you that it IS wrong for her to avoid talking to him. It’s not fair to him, because it’s a form of leading him on by avoiding the problem. It’s not fair to you, because it strings exh along and keeps him in the picture, dividing attention. She’s playing you both, to be honest. She is a cake eater now. (There, I said it!) It’s not like she has anything to lose (or does she?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> hmmm...) by telling him she’s not interested...

4. And you - if you are that easily made willing to give her up, then you are still on the same page that you always said you were. (Marriage not in immediate future.) But maybe she’s moved ahead of you AGAIN. This wouldn’t surprise any of us.

5. So to sum it up, I agree with you. There are valid concerns on several fronts. This certainly shows that her past business isn’t finished (at the least) and may even take a turn towards a future with her exh. It also shows that the concerns expressed previously about her “future stability” are still valid if she’s unwilling to tell the exh to go away. (And as I said in #1, many women would probably feel the same way.)

I wish Relady were here to dispense her wise advice! Guess the guys will have to pick up that slack <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ July 26, 2003, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Eduard Re: Tough Love - 07/27/03 02:22 AM
Yeah, I did jump to Plan B too early. WW still had to work with OM for 4 weeks and I didn't want to do Plan A knowing that she would be traveling with him (how A started and was carried out). I wasn't 100% sure she had chosen to be with OM or not. She also moved out right away to "get her head straight" and figure things out.

Sending the letter to the OMW was a big LB but I felt it had to be done for me.

I wish you could get do-overs on doing these plans and I don't want to have to do this ever again, but unfortunately the cards were dealt and I already laid down my hand.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/27/03 12:40 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: I would keep my eyes and ears open to see what your GF does about her exH. I think it is a bad idea for your GF to avoid him; she needs to tell him to leave her alone. Whether he respects her decision or not, is another story.

Avondale: Have you thought about just asking your WH what he intends on doing?

EC: You always have had a way with words.

Eduard: If you think Plan A fits your situation, then go with it. Just make sure that your WW is headed in the right direction before you do it. Sometimes, WS go back and forth.

Me: The situation with buddy's daugther has taken a turn for the worst. It seems that she is trying to sabbotage out relationship. She has been very disrespectful to her mother. I think she is using her mother's attention on me as a way to gain greater power and influence. She is very spoil and self centered. She has definitely stepped over the line. Buddy is going to give her an attitude adjustment today. Buddy has noticed a change in her since she turned 10 last May. I was also informed that she can be a ***** when she wants. She has to be humbled or she will turn into a monster. People think she is a cute angel; therefore, spoiling her even more. She has everything any kid could want. Her mom spends alot of time with her. She has been trying to tell her mom what to do. I realize alot of this is normal, but spying on our phone conversations, leaving mom disarespectful notes like "Don't come in my room" or "I don't want to talk to you",
etc. is over the line in my opinion. She is in
for a rude awakening today. Her mom and I have done nothing to deserve such treatment.

Later!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/27/03 06:19 PM
Eduard - If I were you, I’d adopt a Plan A attitude and stick with it for as long as you can. You can still do Plan A while she’s out of the house, so read up about it on this site. Plan B is more a “last ditch effort” after having tried Plan A for a longer period of time. Also, as you said, there aren’t a lot of “do-overs” so make sure whatever actions you take, they won’t come back to bite you later on. At this stage in your relationship, you can’t go wrong doing Plan A. The time will come for Plan B later, and you’ll realize when that is.

Petvet - I don’t think you’ve written that much about yourself in a year! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL You’re right, a lot of those behaviors are probably normal for girls that age, especially ones who have had their lives turned upside down as hers has been. Has most of her disrespect been centered around you (or your relationship with her mom), or has it been displayed around others in her life (baby sitters, father, etc.)? Does she get along with your son? I sure hope your buddy doesn't refer to you too directly in her talk with her daughter, or else daughter MAY make it worse. I hope not.

Oh by the way, the reason I don’t want to ask H what he’s going to do is because I don’t want to do ANYTHING to influence him in a decision. I’m OK waiting, it’s just my natural curiosity about what might be in my future. I know God is in control, no matter what!
Posted By: Eduard Re: Tough Love - 07/27/03 07:27 PM
I'm afraid to be hypocritical and say Plan B NC is wrong, let's communicate and do Plan A. That might make her more confused and give her the wrong impression don't you think?

Plus, I'm pretty sure she doesn't want to talk to me for a while anyhow after telling OMW's W.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/27/03 09:13 PM
Eduard - I would wait for your W to bring up the letter you sent OMW, and not bring it up yourself. You don't know what, if anything, the OMW will do about it. She might sit on the information for some time and not confront her H. Also, I would think she'd want to get proof and confirmation on her own. So until then, just bide your time. You're right, it could get confusing if you go back and forth between A & B, but on the other hand, it's early enough in your separation that you can still make alterations or changes, because there isn't a long-time pattern of behavior on your part towards your W that has developed. I just would hate for you to get so entrenched in Plan B/NC that it would be more difficult to back out of.
Posted By: Eduard Re: Tough Love - 07/28/03 04:28 AM
OMW had asked me for the email proof the day she got my letter then she called WW the next day and then WW called me bringing up the letter and we had a bad LB conversation.

We've been in NC for 16 days with some breaks.

The thing is, I have a short time frame to figure things out. WW accepted a position that will be out of state in November so I kind of need to have a decision well before that to build a foundation. I have considered re-doing plan A but I wouldn't do it until OM doesn't work with her after Aug 8th.

At this point I'm trusting in God to carry out his plan for me.
Posted By: Eduard Re: Tough Love - 07/28/03 04:30 AM
I guess I will have to rely on the good thoughts from before hand to be judged on by her.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/28/03 11:32 AM
Eduard - Aha....once I read the latest details your position makes a lot more sense. I'm sorry for jumping the gun without asking for that necessary background info. What you're doing now is probably safest way to go. Have you heard from OMW since you gave her email proof? Do you expect to?
Posted By: Eduard Re: Tough Love - 07/28/03 01:23 PM
I haven't heard from OMW yet. And I have no idea if I will, but I would think it would be to hers and mine advantage if she did call me.

Well, I did end up sending WW an email giving her the option of opening up communication.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/29/03 11:18 AM
Hi all!

Eduard: The only thing that the OMW can do at this point if she wants, is to confront her WH about the situation. Based on her mentality and resolve will determine her next step. She may not contact you again. I agree it would be to her advantage to contact you. The big question is whether all this relvalations will end the affair.
Your WW still appears to be in the fog. If she was repentent, she would have probably communicated to you by now.

Avondale: I understand your waiting philosophy.

Me: Buddy's daughter has told her mom that she likes me. She does not like the fact that mom shares shares attention with me and her. She is very self centered and acts like a Queen. She is a arrogant kid at times. She and my son have rivalries like siblings. Both play off eachother.Buddy and I have decided to see how things go moving forward but both agree that blending these two households may not be possible in the forseeable future.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/29/03 10:03 PM
Hi everyone,

I hope everyone had a good weekend.

I had written a post earlier but I lost it (haven't done that in awhile).

avondale...

I like the way your allowing all that is concerned with your "H" to be put in the Lord's hands. Allow Him to lead your path and not interfering... Good Idea!

Eduard...

With the letter being sent... your down to damage control at this point.

I have to agree with Petvet... don't look for anything major to change for the time being. Work a good Plan A., and hold off on the Plan B. until you see things deteriorate to the point of no return.

It's as avondale stated... Plan B. is the very last thing you want to do when all else fails.

Petvet...

When kids are put into a situation that they feel threatened with (and add all the changes that everyone has been through), they act out in the manner of what you described. My YD did the same thing and she is 17 yrs.old... so I don't think it knows no Age limits when it comes to kids.

Give it some time... once everyone starts feeling comfortable with the situation over time... things should start getting better.

As far as mixing families is concerned... to me, it's one of the most difficult things you can attempt to do... especially at this early of a stage.

If you look at my past posts... I stated to my G/F, that I will not even consider getting married until all the kids are out on their own... which puts it at about 3 yrs.at the earliest.

So as you can all see... I won't be getting married anytime in the near future.

Me...

avondale and Petvet... I think you both bring up some very valid points concerning my G/F and her exH.

I don't think she is making it up about him calling all the time (he even went over to her house to use her computer... I was not a happy camper when I heard about that).

He called again yesterday wanting to talk to his YS (who just happens to have his own cell phone), and she did not say one word about what we had discussed.

Soooooooooo... I'm going to play this game for just a little while longer, and if she doesn't take a stance... I'm going to walk.

Funny thing happened after everything went down with my first "M". I don't put up with very much garbage anymore. I choked on it all with my first marriage... so there isn't very much room to move with any sort of circus sideshows.

I've seen the show before and I didn't care for it very much then... and I like it even less now.

Hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/31/03 02:10 PM
Hi Everyone

Hope all is fine............

Eu - As others had said, don't expect too much in return getting the letter out. If it's an addiction the WS will just find the next person and you'll just be chasing the wind. That's what happen in my case. I was just the big bad wolf blowing down sandcastles each time I found another OM(5)total, but keep the faith, what's impossible for man is possible with God, but more than anything work on you, you'll never be perfect but renew your mind and be at peace with yourself and have patience...

Me - Check this out, the contempt filing my exww did has turned around on her. Everything she filed, that I had to give to her, she's now giving it all back because I discovered once again the Court made an error <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

She's in contempt of her own filing and she's doing everything possible to settle with me before Aug court date <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

This has been wild...That whole court session in June has turned in my favor by the hand of the Lord. I had no lawyer and they hammered me and dragged me down like scum.....

Boy, I tell you what, when you trust the Lord and are honest he shows himself strong when people unjustly do you wrong. It's amazing because I went through the "fire" the court session, but the Lord was in the mist of it and I didn't get burned coming out....Like Jesus, all the judge could say regarding that case was " I find no fault with this man". release him...

Now when I go to court in Aug the court is going to address the errors they made they're admitting to:

Relief from Judgement regarding CS arrearage and now this contempt error....

I'm just so amazed because as Arrogant and mean as that lady hearing officer/judge was, she was wrong the whole time...It's sad because this is just proof people go to prison or jail falsely accused from court error...

What's more scary is they're making errors giving people divorces, some people maynot actually be divorced because the court made an error, wouldn't that be something? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

The battle is the Lord's...........
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/01/03 05:38 AM
EC - that is GREAT news! Keep us posted about your court date in August. You certainly deserve a reprieve from all the grief your exww and court has put you through.

Wallace - what's new with you and g/f and her exh ?

Relady - are you back from the beach yet? Give us a report!

Petvet - I'm glad the talk with buddy's daughter went well. Hopefully things will settle down for all of your sakes.

Eduard - Any more updates about the email you sent?

Me - Nothing new, just sitting around with this horrible overcast weather! Summer is supposed to be sunny, not like this! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/31/03 07:53 PM
Hi all,

EC...

That's some really good news you have there. I'll bet your exW is trying to settle with you... I wouldn't want to be in your exW's shoes and walk into Court with that hanging over my head. Your situation gives me some hope concerning mine. I'm like you... I'm going to let the Lord deal with it... it will all come out in "His" time.

avondale...

I knew relady should of taken a lap top with her. She could of sat out in the sun and got a nice tan... and told us about everything that was going on.

Hows things going on your end? My G/F said her exH is calling just about everyday... so I'm about ready to tell her to hit the road if things don't change soon.

Hope everyone is having a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/01/03 01:06 PM
Hi all!

EC: Good news. I hope things continue to go in your favor.

Wallace: Yep! Somethings not right. Watch out.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/01/03 06:08 PM
Wow, this thread made it past 100 pages! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And I started posting on page 28...Petvet, did you realize how long it's impact would be when you started it?

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

<small>[ August 01, 2003, 01:10 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/01/03 10:26 PM
Hi all,

Well I'm winding down from a very busy work week and I'm getting ready to start my weekend.

I had some very interseting news last night via my YD.

Evidently no has heard from my OD since Father's Day so my YD called her last night and they talked for I'm not sure how long.

Well anyway... my OD stated to my YD last night, that on Father's Day, my exW called my OD a number of times and left messages on her voice mail. My exW wanted her to come over to my exW's apartment and meet her new "Husband", on Father's Day of all days. To me... that's just warped and sick thinking. She should of called her on any other day to make such an annoucement... but my exW... being the sick and twisted person she is... picked Father's Day to bring it into our family. She also stated in one of her many mesages to my OD that day... to have my YD call her, because she wanted to have a relationship with her. If she wanted a relationship with her... maybe she should of paid at least one CS payment instead of nothing... no contact... nothing for almost a year and half... so much for the relationship.

IMO, that takes a lot of nerve to do such a thing... especially on Father's Day.

Needless to say my OD didn't mention a word to me about any of this. My YD had to get it out of her.

Well to make a long story short... I have ceased all contact with my OD... possibly for a very long time. I'm not going to let her go back and tell my exW about everything that me and my family are doing... especially when I know she has contact with her Mom annd tells her everything that we have going on. I asked my OD to get the apartment number of my exW... so I could give it to the child support enforcement people so they can finish up this CS mess.

To date she refuses to give me the apartment number... she says she doesn't have it, which I know is a lie.

So needless to say I am not happy with my OD.

I'm really questioning all of my relationships I have when I catch people in a lie that I have known and trusted... I'm even rethinking my relationship with my G/F.

I think I'm just going to just lay low for a couple of years until I clear out all the garbage in my life, and then maybe I might be ready to get involved with someone... I wouldn't bet on it though... I still have an ugly taste in my mouth over the whole thing.

It's like I'm reliving this whole mess all over again... I'm really getting tired of it all.

Well enough of my ranting and raving... I hope you all have a very good weekend... I know I'm going to try.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/03/03 07:46 PM
Hey Wallace,

My heart goes out to you. Just be sure your GF didn't or is not using you as a rebound, as I said before a rebound is just like a drug, once it wears off, the person hardly remembers you...

Below is a message my OD sent me also some dialog between me and exww. OD wanted assistance with some college stuff but I told exw, I 'd be more than happy to help her, but it would be nice if she called or wrote sometime. I said she acts like she hates me or something, I said who would give money freely to somebody that treated you that way daily for years?..Exw secretly passed message to OD and she responds and also OD don't know what's happening with the court stuff, I replied in love and assured her I love her anyway for life.

This may give you some idea what it would be like to talk to your OD and exww, it can be draining and frustrating....

OD:

I have no hatred for you. I really don't need the money for books because I can handle it myself; however, I only said something because I wanted to see what you'd say. I must admit that my belief was correct. You said
exactly what I thought you'd say.
You were also right about one thing, I am an adult
now. The reason you don't hear from me much is because
you're still doing this mess with mom. The two of you
are going to court again for the second time in the
course of no more than a month. That is ridiculous. I
wish I didn't have to feel like I didn't want to be
bothered, but everytime I thing about why you're going
to court again is because you don't agree with what
the law told you to do, which is take care of us. In
reality the law shouldn't have to do that. I would
assume that the bible would and since you are a Christian man so
that wouldn't be a hard concept for you to grasp.
It shouldn't make a difference whether or not you live
with us. The fact that you helped create us hasn't
changed. Because you're making such a big deal about
it, it makes me feel like you regret even having us
because you fight the fact that you have to take care
of us so much. Would it make you feel better if you
didn't have to pay a dime? That's why I don't ask you
for anything. I work hard enough to take care of
myself because I don't want to deal with that.

I know that
it must hurt- being divorced from someone you've spent
quite a bit of time with, but doing what you're doing
now won't help you move on. You can take all you want
from her and be revengeful, but where does that leave
you in the end? You've spent all this time trying to
ruin someone who's already moved on and is at least
trying to be civil with you because of the things that
you both share, me and YD
This is my last attempt to tell you what's on my
mind and to talk to you with maturity. I have decided
that I want peace among all of us and if the only way
I can get that is &#8224;o back away, I'll do that. I want
you to know that me and YD still love you , but all of
this has to stop. I can't live like this anymore. If
you'd like to respond that's fine. In fact I would
appreciate it. I guess I'll hear from you soon.

My Email to exw-

I'm happy for you and your boyfriend's relationship,
I hope you guys stay together and get married soon,
I hope he's treating you well and making you happy.
Tell the girls they don't have to hide him anymore,
I'm sure he'll make a good father and friend for
them. That's great he's taking you to work and YD where she needs to go, it's only the right thing to
do, I'm glad he moved in and took over my role in helping you guys out less for me to be concerned
about.
I guess in reallity you blessed me by going to him
and the others, it's amazing what I thought was a
bad thing turned into a blessed thing, I never
dreamed you're leaving was for all these good things
to take place. Jobs wife turned on him, Josephs
family betrayed him, mis-understood him,forsook him,
but God was only setting him up to be blessed....His pain and aloneness was only to bring the dream to pass......He went from the Pit to the Palace, ended up a wealthy man and a father figure and example unto many.

Her response:

Please make sure you quote what I say correctly. I
NEVER said he moved in, I NEVER said he was trying to
be anything other than a friend. He is not their
father. That is and will always be YOUR responsibility
regardless of how much concern you give to it.
I'm saving
that email because you can NEVER again tell me the DV was
the wrong thing.

I have to agree with you, I told you way back in the
beginning that you would see this differently later
on. That you would be so much happier after the
divorce. I'm glad you finally agree that this was the
right thing for the both of us. As difficult as it was
for the both of us, God has managed to take what was
horrible and make something good of it. And we have
nothing but great things to look forward to.

I have NEVER doubted that God would bless you
abundantly as he will everyone who seeks Him. You
could very well be the next Job. I was listening to
Joyce Meyers this morning. She said one of our biggest
problems is we get jealous when someone else is
blessed and wonder why we didn't get what they got. I
had to laugh cause I totally agree.

At this point in my life obtaining wealth is a very
low priority. God promised to supply my needs
regardless of whether it be wealth, land, houses,
etc... Whatever it is, it's promised. I've been very
blessed to be close to a man who is a millionaire. In
fact he's in town right now and I had dinner with him
last night. He's an older man... about 60 or so. It's
incredible to see and hear his take on life now that
he can do whatever he wants. He lives very humbly and
I tell you he's just blessed me beyond measure in
understanding.

Those are the riches I want... knowledge and
understanding.

What's funny she's 39, 60+, geezzz <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> anyway lots of stuff here, still her guilt and justification. Her BF been around since 2001 the very one that told me "My wife belong to him' and I messed up and mad death threats...

I wrote what I did above to exw because I'm trying to get over this guy, May 2004 is my YD graduation. He was at my OD graduation 2002 but I didn't see him, lucky me, but I got to get over this, so I figure why not bless her and him and free myself......She's going to try to get this guy in front of me at all cost in 2004....So I have 9 months.....If any body wants to correct me on anything I'm all ears..

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/04/03 02:41 AM
EC

Hi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I had to read this twice to make sure I was understanding it. I know things aren't always what they appear, but your exww sure sounds like she's got it all together.

I was very saddened when I read the email from your OD. Obviously she has so much hurt and is under a total misconception about the financial situation with you and exww. Why didn't you correct it and set her straight on that? I thought you had taken a stand and explained all that to your OD back in the winter...didn't you? Do you plan on responding to her email at all?

In your email to exww, you failed to mention what OD said at all (unless you didn't include it here). And since you didn't ask for our comments BEFORE you sent it, what would be the point of us giving you feedback? Something did stand out to me, and if you want my response I'll be glad to give it. However, if there were criticisms of your email, what would you do? Send a corrected one to your exww?

Another question...Is this older man the b/f you referred to that you were trying to "get over"? Or was that someone else? If the riches your exww wants are "knowledge and understanding", you know that there are better riches than those! She can settle for that, but those two things are NOT God's best!

And your last paragraph, you mention that you "have 9 months". You have 9 months for what? Does this date have more significance than just when YD graduates and your support ends?

Anyway, I realize this is just a lot of questions for you; maybe you can clarify some things for us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ August 03, 2003, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Eduard Re: Tough Love - 08/04/03 02:47 AM
Heya Avondale,

No responses from OM's W. My WW did respond to my email so I guess back to Plan A LoL. After the initial outburst from the OM's W finding out I haven't had much contact with WW and I'm trying my best to not LB, be clingy, ask any irrelevant questions or offer too much insight to my well being. She wants to meet next weekend for lunch to talk and ask a few questions "about nothing in general." So we'll see <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I'm not expecting anything and preparing for the worst. I just pray for insight each day as to the path I'm being directed towards taking by God.

God bless!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/04/03 04:47 PM
Hi Avondale,

I know this long but I want to respond to your questions about OD. Once again OD is speaking from the view point from the lie&#8217;s exww is telling her. Exww is telling OD I purposely don&#8217;t want to take care of them by correcting the court error. Exww tells OD the emancipation took place because I didn&#8217;t want to take care of her and not because she turned 18 and out of highschool. Exww is telling her all these things and the only thing my OD is seeing is the action the courts are taking so it all appears to be true, but what can you do? You have a woman purposely turning true intentions and laws against me for the Love OF Money at any cost. While OD is pain there is nothing I can do but pray and hope she comes and visits me oneday, I&#8217;m sure if I had to show her paper proof, she would change her whole heart, but I tried to not involve her, but exww treats her as a friend telling every detail but twist info rather than being a mother and try to bring healing in the matter

I did respond to OD after she wrote me;

Glad to hear from you. I understand your points however since you don&#8217;t know the truth and been told a lie, I could see why you feel the way you do. My going to court is not excessive. In Feb 2003 I went to court for the emancipation. In June 2003 I went to court because I didn&#8217;t file the right papers in Jan 2002 to reflect the time I was unemployed. During the last court session in June 2003, I discovered an error and the judge was mad at me for not finding it in prior sessions.

When the court session was over in June 2003, I thought it was done but the court sent me a letter and said they rescheduled another court date in August 2003 because of court error and they said they&#8217;ll call this session Relief from Judgment. This was there doing not mine I thought it was over, I was shocked! Also your mom filed a contempt of court thing against me over $60.00 and other things and now once again the court made an error on that also and that has to be addressed.

I want to say I think you are a wonderful person, I hope you continue to accomplish great things....

I think your mom is a wonderful mom, that's why I married her...She has a lot of good things going for her and lot of them she's buried. We may all sin at times but only when we cease and ask for Gods grace will we be set free from the matter. God loves us all and will run to our every need.

I don't look down on her, I look up to her, I'm more disappointed then anything because the road she took could have been avoided and you guys had to go down it, but if you're ok with that then I am and hope you're happy with the outcome...

As I always said I'll love you for life and you were and still are the joy of my life and my big baby from the very day you were born. You don't have to live your life avoiding me, what a waste.....One day you and me are going to have a make up time for the things we lost.....

I think you're the greatest...

Love Dad

*********************

While it does sounds like exww has it altogether that&#8217;s part of the game and lie. You have to understand she is a &#8220;Master&#8221; of Manipulation.

Her BF is currently driving her around and my kids because her car broke down this week and she didn&#8217;t have the money to get it fixed, but tells me she is saving money lots of money and is not struggling financially.

The truth about the older man? Well now she said it&#8217;s her father in town. Is he a millionaire? No! He works a part-time job to stay afloat&#8230;..It&#8217;s all part of lie and game. That&#8217;s why she said referring to me &#8220;She said one of our biggest problems is we get jealous when someone else is blessed and wonder why we didn't get what they got. I had to laugh cause I totally agree&#8221;.

While she says she laughed, it&#8217;s a lie, it&#8217;s anger and the wanting of vengeance&#8230;.This is more of &#8220;Why did I leave him and he&#8217;s prospering? Why was I so unhappy and Dv&#8217;d him and he&#8217;s moving on?. I left him in debt but he&#8217;s climbing out? It&#8217;s all resentment.

You have to remember, this is a woman who turned my brother and sisters against me until I exposed what she was doing secretly, they didn&#8217;t know she was having multiple affairs and didn&#8217;t know why I was acting they way I was, they thought I was flipping out and they turned on me. Once they found out they were mad because she nearly destroyed our family relationship. Now she is doing the same thing with my OD and YD. They see actions but don&#8217;t why, they think Dad is trying neglect them and taking there mom to court in spite. She presents one thing but another is going on&#8230;

Why mentioning of the 9 month date? That&#8217;s when I go to YD graduation, Exww&#8217;s current BF who has been in the picture since 2001 will be there, they are sex partners and he&#8217;s more than she&#8217;s referring to. They have no furniture in the house so when he comes over they&#8217;re in the bedroom&#8230;.I hate that my daughters have to see that.

As I said she is super sly, she knows just how to sound right and sound logical but she&#8217;s a snake&#8230;.My exww is no different than Bill Clinton, say all the right words, present a good image in front of everyone, but behind the scenes, living the most corrupt ultimate lie ever, Bill Clinton during his time in affairs said he listens to Billy Graham, but it&#8217;s all a form of Godliness and denying the power there of and he was so convincing. Manipulation is a form of witchcraft, it seduces it&#8217;s victim, it&#8217;s a form of control&#8230;.she has it mastered.

That&#8217;s why I was controlled by sex and weakened not to be a leader, it&#8217;s part of the control and manipulation she inflicted me with.

What you see more than anything is a woman that left her husband she went to her end and now she&#8217;s trying to back track in going back to what she had and where she came from(Not me) But as you see now she&#8217;s not making any commitment to her BF&#8230;..It&#8217;s not listed here but a lot of emails are now wanting things back that she forsook. When you wake up and realize it was all and illusion, you start remembering all that you had to the point of envy of what you lost and you want to return&#8230;..Most prodigals do

Hosea 2 &#8211;

6 Therefore, behold, I will hedge up thy way with thorns, and make a wall, that she shall not find her paths. 7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now..

This is another email I sent to exww that also prompted some of her response.

Me;

I don't want to war anymore, we fought long enough and i'm tired, let's call a truce, nobody won, ok. Yes i've made errors, who's perfect? Despite that, I still feel the divorce was wrong eventhough the adversity of it pushed me ahead in life. God does turn the bad things people do to you into good things, I couldn't see it at first and nobody can until God works a work in the matter...

I hope I don't give you an impression life's been some great big party and celebration since you left because it hasn't been, it's been painful as death, it's a process but joy slowly cometh, however I'm glad I went from marriage to singleness and found me rather than from marriage, to commitment in another relationship. Yes, I'm much stronger.

Yes, the divorce is over and as you see, I'm glad you have a boyfriend and hopefully you will marry him that would be great.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/04/03 09:44 PM
EC - Thanks for sharing those additional emails. It helps explain a lot more. In the first email you posted yesterday to your exww, it sounded to me, like you were basically "writing off" not only your exww (which is fine) but also your kids, which I didn't think you meant. That's the way I read it.

But one thing I've noticed for a while now is that you very seldom -if ever- defend yourself against their false accusations. Humility in the right circumstances is a virtue. However, if you take on humility in the wrong way, it doesn't glorify God by letting yourself or your stance be walked all over on. We both know that in the end, righteousness will win, but in the meantime, doors could close, too. Just be careful, ok?

I'm glad you did write those additional things to your daughter.

Your patience and selflessness really show in your posts!

Eduard - I think it's a positive sign that your ww wants to meet with you. We've all been there, and as you realize, don't get your hopes up. But do Plan A the whole time - from choosing the place to what clothes to wear. Let us know what happens.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/05/03 03:08 AM
Avondale - Thanks for the advice and encouragement, I will consider what you say. You are a real jewel in the eyes of God...

I will agree I may have been pushed over but I'm glad it's almost over. I find it interesting as I get closer to the end my exww is fighting harder, now she wants to sue me for having some Walmart dinner plates we once shared <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Price $25.00 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> she just won't stop, these are items I listed I wanted?

I think now that she has had a chance to taste several men now she see's who I am and that I'm a nice guy, so nice she thinks she can do as she wants but right now it's only because the court is involved and hanging over my head. Once thats over, watch out. She know's my plan is to be done with her and restore my relationship with my kids......so now she's trying do and get as much possible before then.

Thank You for praying for me I know all these good things didn't happen on there own....court is in 2 weeks..I think this one will close some doors..
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/06/03 12:17 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: To be honest with you, I have never given the longevity of this thread a thought because I am just happy its here to help people.

EC: You know, the least contact or interactions of all sorts you have with your exw, the better you are going to be. The more you try to straighten things out, the more your exw wants to come back at you. If you are not careful, you will be dealing with her outrage for the rest of your life.

Wallace: I cannot blame you. I would discontinue contact with OD as well. She has taken sides and your exw is using that to her advantage.

Eduard: As you have said, don't expect anything from your meeting with your ww. Just keep an open mind.

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/06/03 04:43 PM
Hey All,

I hope everyone is fine under the circumstances.

Nope, didn't drown in the ocean! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I had a wonderful relaxing vacation. Before returning I stayed an extra few days in Ft. Lauderdale looking at property. WOW! No wonder everyone retires in Florida. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It's beautiful, housing is affordable and especially beachfront.

And when I returned, I had finals to face. ugh!

Vacations are definitely a mind altering drug, we need more.

I'll be back later to comment on some rather interesting posts after I catch up. Just wanted you to know, I'm still here and the situation is still the same.

God Bless,
relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/06/03 08:11 PM
Well Gang

Looks like Relady is back and she said she had some things to say later...OH BOY! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Ok Relady here's the order to follow - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Go after Wallace first <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> He's ready...

Go after Petvet second because he's like a wild buck that's broken down the fence <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> He's after his doe...

Make me third because by the time you get to me, you'll be tired and wanna quit... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Then fourth go after Ed, he's new and has to be broke in by the ladies here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Welcome back I'm glad you had fun...it's true the ocean has a way of pulling you in and wanting you to live by it, that's why there are so many snowbirds... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/08/03 04:17 PM
Hi All,

Well it has been a very busy and interesting week for me... so I haven't really had much time to get on-line and see how things are going with everyone.

EC...

Thank you for sharing your personal email with allof us... it gives us more of a perspective of what is going on in your life. Two weeks to go and hopefully it will be all over and you can truly move forward without any sideline activities from the exW. I'll bet your looking forward to that!

I hope everything goes your way on your Court date.

Petvet...

I have ceased all contact with my OD and this is the reason's why.

I have never accepted the fact that she is living with her B/F, and she went against my wishes that she finish school first and then look at the possibility of marriage after that... well she chose to do none of them.

My OS's Birthday came and went and not so much as even a telephone call to at least wish him a "Happy Birthday"... she is reminding me with her recent actions of someone who I was associated with... my exW.

My YD went to a friends apartment with some of her friends to go swimming... and lo and behold she ran into my exW and her new "H". Evidently my exW and her new "H" are apartment managers there.

They had about a one hour conversation, and my exW knew everthing there was to know that was going on in my life... compliments of my OD.

Well my YD got every piece of info she could get from my exW. We now know where she lives, works, phone numbers, etc. My YD said it was one of the most disgusting moments in her life... talking with her Mom, and seeing their apartment. There is more... but I won't bore you with all the details.

The next day I immediately got in touch with the Child Support Enforcement and gave them all the info on my exW that they needed to get this ball rolling in the right direction.

I knew my OD was telling lies about everything. So to make a long story short... I am going to cease all contact with my OD until she shows some signs of not trying to play both sides, and make a move to hopefully put her life in the right direction.

She needs to show some consideration for others and she needs to quit being so selfish and self centered.

Until she starts showing signs of doing any the above mentioned items... I'm all done with her.

My mind is made up and I'm not even going to consider whether I'm right or wrong in this particular situation... you reach a point where you just say... enough is enough, and at that point it's time to call it a day.

relady...

Glad to hear that you had a nice time at the beach. I think I could use a little of that right about now. It does sooth the senses.

avondale...

Are you upset with me because of the stance I've taken? I hope not... but if you are... I would like to hear your opinion on it all.

Well I hope everyone has a great day and a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/08/03 06:21 PM
Hi Wallace,

I truly understand your point about your OD.....At some point you realize they're your big baby but then again they're the stubborn woman also and sometime you have to seperate the two.

Your OD is going to miss her blessing and gift in her life and that is you. Another man (boyfriend or husband) can't fill the void what a father can give his child.

Ok, on a funny note <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ... In curiosity I was just searching the net to see if anybody had my name out there and I ran across exww's personal ad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ad:

Location: Florida
Age: 39
Marital Status: Single And Looking
Gender: Female

Wouldn't her BF love to see that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

He is such a control freak..

Anyway I had to laugh when I saw it, because she's playing him also....When does it ever stop?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

She told me the other day, since her car is broke, he's driving them around everywhere, cooking dinner, blah,blah,blah, it's apparent he's a sucker and she's stringing him along <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> She last updated her profile July 25th about 2 weeks ago. Hmmm together since 2001...Still looking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ?? I wonder why?

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/08/03 08:00 PM
Wallace , I know that was a hard decision to make about no contact with your OD and I'm sure you didn't do it without a lot of thought. I feel sorry for your YD, having to once again run into her mother in an awkward situation - in front of her friends, no less! It sounds like she handled it as well as possible, by getting the info you've needed for so long now. And it did prove to you that your OD was lying <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Please keep in mind that your exww is probably feeding lies to her, too, just as in EC's case. But I think you're doing the right thing. Watch out that YD doesn't get caught in the middle now, between you and your OD. Has this development put your dilemma with g/f on hold?

EC - great use of the smileys there! LOL Sounds like your exww isn't very happy and is covering all her bases! Maybe you should look up her b/f email address and forward the info to him (anonymously, of course, by making up a fake email addy with yahoo or hotmail).

Relady - welcome back...do you have any interesting stories to tell????

Eduard Is your lunch this weekend? Let us know how it goes.

Petvet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Have a great weekend, everyone!

<small>[ August 08, 2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/11/03 06:00 PM
Hi all!

Relady: I'm glad you had a good vacation. My buddy's brother just moved to the Ft. Laud area to invest in real estate. He has a condo on the beach.

Wallace: I cannot blame you for disassociating with your OD. She is trying to get back at you.

Avondale & EC: I hope all is well.

Me: Well, I had a situation to come up yesterday. A couple of days ago, exw call to tell me that she needed to talk about son. Well, she informs me that kid told his GPs that buddy does not want him around. This was news to me because he always like to go over to her pad and he likes her daughter. He had never said anything to me. When I asked kid about what he had said, he said that he did not say anything like that. I know how kids are, so he may have said something,but it does not make sense. Exw tells me that she has a boyfriend and assume that I am dating someone because I went on vacation with buddy and the kids even though I have never said anything of the sort to her. Exw made a general comment that I need to be careful who I have around our kid. After the initial conversation, I called exw again to find out whether kid just made the statement or whether something lead up to the statement. She admitted that he was talking about buddy's daughter and it went from there. Of course buddy is beside herself because she thinks exw is trying to start something when she does not know her nor the situation. I spoke with exw this morning to make a couple of things clear. When I told her that I wish kid was not involve in this stuff, she responded that if I had given her a second chance, he would not be going through this. I nearly passed out. When I quickly followed up for an explanation of her comment, she clammed up. When I requested another clarification, she said never mind. What bothers me about this is that I believe she is telling everyone lies that I did not give her a second chance; therefore, the marriage ended. As you well know, I gave her numerous chances. I am being made out to be the bad guy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> What do you guys think I should do, or better yet how do you think I should handle the situation.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/11/03 06:22 PM
Hi All,

I hope everybody had a good weekend.

EC...

It is amazing about what a ww ex-spouse is capable and willing to do. That is pretty good... she's still shopping around... nothing surprises me when it comes to ex-wives, not anymore.

Your Court date is coming up soon... how do you think things will go?



avondale...

After much deliberation... I decided to take the stance I did. It was a very hard decision to come to... but I felt it was in the best interest for all of us to take this position. Hopefully my OD will snap out of it and start coming to her senses... I can only pray.

My G/F and I are getting along very well. She just finished moving again... into her new house. The game plan is (at least for the time being), that she will probably be there for about 2 to 3 years and then we wil start considering getting married and looking for a new house that she and I can live in after we are married. With a little luck and a lot of help from the "Lord"... I think we will make it.



relady...

What happened? Did you decide to go back to the beach and extend your vacation?

Petvet...

Hope everything is well with you my friend... let us know when you get a chance.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/11/03 06:59 PM
Hey Petvet,

We must of cross posted or something.

It appears that your exW may be pumping your son for information and your son is giving your exW some pretty interesting information. Be careful with what you have going on there... you may want to keep the visits with your son and your Buddy limited as much as possible for the time being, or figue a way that you can have your son keep any information that he has between you and him.

Your exW may want to revisit the Courts and try to get custody of your son if she keeps hearing what she's hearing. By the sounds of the statement she made to you... she may do just that.

I can't believe your exW making the comment about you not giving her a sceond chance... of course... after awhile they truly start believing their own lies.

Did your son ever tell you anything at all about this prior to talking to your exW... that he truly felt that way about your Buddy not liking him?

What's your Buddy think about all of this?

My 2 cents worth... I would limit your son's exposure with your Buddy for awhile. Let things settle down, and have a heart to heart with your son about coming to you first with anything that he feels may be bothering him. That way... your not hit with any surprises like you just were.

Let us know how you make out on this one.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ August 12, 2003, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/11/03 08:36 PM
Petvet ,
I don't have any post-separation young child experience, but what Wallace said makes sense and sounds smart to me. Limit your son's exposure to your buddy for a while. Part of why your son may be saying things (even making it up) is probably due to his age and immaturity. And of course, he could be saying what he knows his mom (exw) wants to hear. Add to that the fact he was talking to GPs and things get really muddy. So give him less to talk about.

You're NOT the bad guy and there are plenty of posts on this thread to prove how many chances you gave her and how much you tried.

<small>[ August 11, 2003, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/13/03 01:18 PM
Hi Gang!

Hope all is going well this week!

Yesterday I had new experience <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I had to call my kids to see how school was going since they just started....Well to my surprize exww's BF answered exww home phone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I said to myself what a " Doofus " <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

He sounded like a typical " [censored] with big Ears <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> " he said Hellwo <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

All I could think was, you idiot,she's using you and going behind your back, you're just where I was with her secret email accounts fishing for men and she's going to dump you for somebody else one day soon and I just had to laugh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> What's going to be funny in time to come is there's going to be dual between her BF and the next guy that comes along and then he'll be burnt to a crisp <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

He's a thug and controller her outcome this time may not be good.

One fact to remember ALL prodigals, the decieved, and betrayers eyes do come open one day and when they do what a mess they find themselves in, so hang in there...examples:

Judas - Saw what he did
Prodigal son - came to himself
Adam /Eve - Eyes became open - mind
Gomer - I will return to my first husband
David - With Bathsheba I have sinned against God

When they saw what they did they turned, until then they continued in there sin..

While It sounded in previous emails I surrendered to exww doings, I haven't

Anyway YD/OD was not there..that was that..

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/15/03 08:13 PM
Hey everyone,

Well it's been another busy week (nothing really new there), and I'm getting ready to start my weekend here real soon.

All is quiet on my end, but that will change I'm sure... it always does.

Getting finished on getting my G/F settled in her new house... and got my YD registered for her Senior year in High School, so it's been a hectic week.

avondale...

How are things holding up on your end?

Have you heard anything from your "H" as of late?

EC...

I agree with what you posted... if they only knew half of what we know about our exWs... they would run for the hills if they were smart. But maybe that is their punishment... we were set free from our WWs antics or we are in the process of being set free from them, and they are going to get just what's coming to them.

To me... that's where the Lord begins to put forth his justice... and at that point all of their eyes start opening up, IMHO.

I hope eveyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Eduard Re: Tough Love - 08/18/03 06:28 PM
I haven't been updating my post here lately, but here's the latest for me. WW and I have been on talking terms from Plan B to Plan A. Honestly, I haven't found out what her true EN's are via the questionnaire. I have been trying to just be a friend at this point and not pushy, clingy or over bearing.

She doesn't live with me so it's not a daily thing but we have had conversations quite frequently. We haven't discussed anything about "our" plans but we have talked about what we as individuals have been up to and may be planning.

She hasn't given me hardcore evidence of wanting to say we'll try and work on things so I just take the little tidbits here and there.

Not even quite sure if I want to sell out completely and Plan A like I could which scares me. And I'm not sure how much longer I'm willing to wait, I can see being stuck in this rut for quite some time with no true decision.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/19/03 11:55 AM
Hi all!
Just checking in.

Wallace: Things seem to be settling down for you. It's nice to have some piece in your life.

Eduard: Take smalls steps when dealing with your W so you can see what her real intentions are.

Avondale: How are things going?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/19/03 12:03 PM
Hey Y'all
I'll do the "check in" thing too, like Petvet. Nothing new here, which is why I haven't posted recently. I still surf the MB boards, and look on this thread, daily. So if anyone else has updates, don't be shy to post. It will give me something to read! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Eduard - Just went back and read your post (somehow it slipped past my radar, LOL). A true Plan A, while in action, is a humbling experience for the BS. I am NOT saying that's a bad thing, just wanted you to know that up front if you didn't already. It takes a certain amount of selflessness and abasement to do.
Have a great week!

<small>[ August 19, 2003, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/19/03 02:28 PM
Hi All,

Petvet... you spoke to soon... things started back up over the weekend and they are still rolling as I speak.

My OD Birthday was yesterday... it came and went like another day. Not one word out of her. My YD tried calling her, but evidently my OD wasn't home. So that pretty much concluded my OD Birthday from our end.

In addition... I had just finished helping my G/F move into her house. Got her washer and dryed moved into her laundry room and hooked up. Now while this was all going on... one her OS was upstairs sleeping in his room. Needless to say... he has not helped her in any way shape of form during this move... which really irritated me... to think that her son could be so thoughless. My G/F even moved all of his things up in his new bedroom for him... he didn't lift a finger.

Well soon after I finished hooking up the washing machine in her laundry room... the telephone rings and I decide to answer it... because my G/F had left the house on an errand and her kid was upstairs sleeping. I answered her phone... and guess who it was... her exH. Who has been calling there continuously.

Well when she came back I asked her if she asked him to quit calling so much... and in a very round about way... she acted like it was no big deal... even though I asked her to curb his calling unless it was something important or family related.

Well, I abruptly left her house and then called her... and we had a pretty good disagreement over the whole thing. So much so... I'm thinking about walking away from this relationship.

I would like some of your opinions on this if I could get it.

I am over reacting over her exH calling all the time. She say's it's nothing and not to let it get to me... and I say this guy is trying to interfer with our relationship... which in fact he is doing... otherwise we wouldn't be at the point we are right now.

Your opinions on this are appreciated.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/19/03 04:20 PM
Hi Everyone,

Well, yesterday was the court session, the hearing officer/judge was listening this time and agreeing with me, not the same one I had last time in June but the one I had in Feb 2003. Exw was stretching a few things but not to bad.

Hearing Off wouldn't make a decision during session but will send us her decision via mail in about 2 weeks......So here I wait.

Things went good and no matter what the outcome, I'm ok with it since it's almost over.

Exw called me 15 mins at home after session and blasted me for challenging the courts errors,she was at work, then she said I need to get something out of my car, I'll call you back, then she calls me back while she's in her car and really lets me have it, she cussed me out, tried to throw guilt trips on me, accused me of this and that because I had to bring up the issues about the multiple affairs during the session that caused me to become unemployed regarding this arreage issue. Then she was so mad she said "I'm going to end all this child support stuff I'm so sick of this court stuff and I'll even help you end it so you won't have to pay a dime!'...she hung up

All I could think was about Judas, as soon the court session was over with Jesus, he no longer wanted the money and threw it down, his power was gone.

she calls back and i tell her,
I said I don't have any problem with ongoing CS it's only the arrears I'm trying to fix...She said 'Oh'?, then started adding numbers up on her calculator....I said if you see I should be done...she then said I guess you're right....Then she wanted to settle on other minor issues.

I brought up the issue to the hearing off about exw's contempt of court error, she said she wasn't touching it but we need to resolve it ourselves, so we left the original order as it was which put exw in the wrong, so that was that, exw paid me back the money.

What was odd was, when exw called she also cried like she had been defeated?, she sounded like her life was coming apart, she used to bring up OM to try and make me jealous or something, yesterday she made no reference to him and acted like he was none existent, though if she was alone? A friend of mine thought she was doing the detachment thing from OM, it's what a spouse does long before they actually leave the relationship.......Time will tell...

Wallace -

On your issue, just remember just because people divorce don't mean they don't become friends afterwards, especially a husband and wife who were once best friends for life...Your GF and her ex-husband will mostlikely be friends...He'll be part of the picture for life, however it's possible he may have realized who he lost and is trying to make a come back...I'm sure you messed him up by answering the phone it may have added more drive to his fire or discouraged him, but your GF is innocent. I'm sure he's consumed with trying to figure out who you are.

You need to make sure you know why they DV'd because if it was of a temporal resolvable issue peoples hearts do change and forgivness changes everything of what seemed immpossible..

That's why this word applies to a WS male or female, they later try to return to the spouse they left and you get caught in the middle...

Hosea 2

7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was it better with me than now.

Take care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/19/03 09:30 PM
Well guys, when it rains it pours! No posts for days, and now Wallace and EC both have SITUATIONS to ponder <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace - How old is her son? If he's older than 12 (or even younger) he should be MADE to assist in the move if he's going to benefit by living in the new house! The fact that she didn't make him should tell you something about both her and her son. I believe you said in a previous post that your G/F's exH said he wanted to reconcile (?). As long as she does NOT tell him in no uncertain terms to stop calling unless it's child-related (and even then, you said they all have cells so there's really NO reason to call HER at all, is there?), he will continue to call. Why won't she tell him what you asked? Is it because she wants to "hedge her bets" to keep both you and her exh in the picture - so if one of you doesn't work out, there is still the other to give her attention? Hmmm....we've said all this before <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope you aren't being played, Wallace, because you deserve so much better than that! Obviously my opinion is not as generous towards G/F and her exH as EC's comment was... maybe the difference is the male/female perspective, LOL.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am over reacting over her exH calling all the time. She say's it's nothing and not to let it get to me... and I say this guy is trying to interfer with our relationship... which in fact he is doing... otherwise we wouldn't be at the point we are right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right...and IMHO it's not over-reacting. So make a decision!

EC - I'm so glad your court session is over.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Things went good and no matter what the outcome, I'm ok with it since it's almost over. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a great attitude! Your exW's phone calls are confusing, aren't they? I think your insight might be right, maybe her personal life is coming apart and she is feeling the effects of it. Were any comments made about your daughters when you talked to her? Do they know of these latest developments?
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/21/03 03:01 PM
Hi everyone,

Thanks for the input on this EC, and avondale... it is appreciated.

I was going to get back sooner... but for some reason I seem to be going on something just about everyday... and it's not by design, it just happens.

I agree with what you both posted as it is almost a border line Catch-22 situation.

I took my G/F out to dinner the other night and we sat down and decided that this situation needs to be handled concerning the exH calling all the time. She agreed with me that it is out of hand... and if it continues, (which she doesn't believe that it will... now that her exH knows that I'm capable of answering her telephone and blowing his cover), she said she would tell him to quit calling unless it's family related.

Make no mistake about it... he has been and still is trying to get back with his exW. She is fully aware of it, as well as myself... even her kids know about his attempts... because he told them all that he was going to attempt it... so I'm not just imagining this.

While we were at dinner... I basically told her that if it in fact keeps up... I was going to walk away from this relationship. I told her that I was not going to compete not only with her exH, but I wasn't going to compete against anybody... and if she couldn't accept that... then it was time to put an end to the relationship.

She assured me that she has not returned any of his telephone calls, and that she would never want to go back to the lies and deceit she had put up with for so many years while they were married (he is a serial cheater).

So long story short... we kissed and made up... hopefully to live happily ever after.

avondale... her twin sons are almost 20 years old and her yougest son is 15 yrs. old. The one 20 yr old who lives at home... attends school and works.
He is more than capable of helping out when she needs it. This is their second move in 6 months (and hopefully their last for awhile), and he has been worthless before, during and after all of this has transpired. That in essence is one of several reasons why I'm not in a big hurry to go out and get "M" right at the moment. I don't think I could stand watching her 20 yr. old just not help his Mom, and expect to be catered to... not while I'm around. My kids somewhat resent her son as well... they think along the lines as I do concerning him... so as you can see... their is some kid issues going here.

One last thing... after almost 1 year... I finally received my first CS check...

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!!!

The Child Support Enforcement had to go to my exW's employer and garnish her wages... so it may get interesting. My exW loves her money... so we will see how long this lasts. She will probably jump jobs... but she has one problem... her apartment is part of her pay as an apartment manager... so that just might slow her down for a little while.

EC...

I'm so glad to hear that your CS issues are finally winding down, and heading in a positive direction for you. I'll bet your glad to see it winding down as well.

Do you think that your exW is starting to remove herself from the relationship she is in now?

Have you heard from either of your daughters lately?

avondale...

LOL... just when you thought it was safe to go out side... Petvet and myself kick in.

I think for most of us... our trials and tribulations are far from over... thanks for being here.

How are you making out?

relady...

Are you still on vacation, or are you as busy as I have been? Let us know when you get a chance.

Petvet...

I don't think your on vacation... how's your situation going.

Well.. everyone have a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/22/03 01:42 PM
Hi Gang......

Nothing new happening new here....Just dropping a line to hello...

I have a question...Do you think there was a tidal wave of affairs from 2000-2002 in the US? I ask because it seems many came here all at once, but it seems to have slowed down somewhat on new cases that come here...Do you think what Bill Clinton did made an effect on society? Not trying blame Bill C people are adults and have to make there own choices, so what you think?

Wallace - Do I think my exw is doing the detach thing? Not sure but I do know the fire is gone way down and reallity has set in....My thought is this? What reason do they have to be faithful? They aren't married and neither is committed and the relationship was brought together from deceit, do I expect it to last? No....My exw is tarzan the woman...she's going to swing to the next relationship once she dumps him just like she swung out of our relationship, but she'll crush him in the process, but what can you say? he deserves it....you reap what you sow...

PS 5

For there is no faithfulness in their mouth; their inward part is very wickedness; their throat is an open sepulchre; they flatter with their tongue.

One thing I thought about through all this was, I should have stayed away further from exww and her OM and there attacks because, they provoke you to anger and can cause you to become more wounded and possibly bitter and loose your joy...Why be like them?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Proverbs 22:24-25
24 Make no friendship with an angry man <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ; and with a furious man <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> thou shalt not go: 25 Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul.

Today is a new day in making new discoveries, a day never lived in before, Oh lord thank you we made it! Wash us afresh, wash us anew, renew our hearts with a new love for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The eyes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> of the LORD are upon <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> the righteous, and his ears are open unto their cry <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/22/03 09:28 PM
Hi All,

Well it's that time of the week again... time to start winding down from work.

EC...

I really like the way you reference scripture and apply the Word to all of our daily lives... it is refreshing and uplifting.

By the sounds of it... it does sound like your exW's relationship is falling off with the OM at this point in time. In the situations that they have going... you never know what to expect though.

To give you my opinion on what appears to have been an explosion of extramarital affairs in the last several years... I think personally it's at epidemic proportions... even still today. The last static I saw on this (and I can't recall who gathered the information), was that in 80% of all marriages at least one of the spouses has been unfaithful at least one or more times during the course of the marriage... that's sad!!!

Concerning Old Bill himself... IMHO, I don't think Clinton did anyone any favors in the ethics and morality department... but that's not for me to judge.

It's the old saying, "What goes around comes around", and I think that will hold true with him as well as our exspouses... only time will tell.

Well everyone have a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ August 22, 2003, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/25/03 01:20 PM
Happy Monday!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well my weekend was pretty quite...

In 2 weeks I'm going to treat myself to the circus and be a kid again..Then late Sept I'm going to go see Don Knotts in a dinner theater play...Oh boy what fun.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

No date, just me...

Wallace - That's great on getting the CS...I tell you what, I know it stings and believe me she feels it daily...It's a constant reminder every pay period especially if you're single...Not so much an impact if you're married....I'm sure it's sobering...As I say, I'm all for doing what's right whether a man pays CS or a woman....However the choice should be given to the other party to pay it voluntarily before the court gets involved in which you did.....In my case my exww was just plain greedy, it was if she had nothing because it goes right through her hands like water....

Avondale - I haven't spoken to D's yet....Since the judge hasn't made a decision yet things are up in the air...

Did you have a nice weekend? Hope things are going ok with you....You're going to make it through this, just stay focused and faint not...

Me: One thing I learned this weekend in studying was that when Paul was taken to court in Acts 24, he constantly said to them if you accuse me 'Prove' your case and cause against me....

When he was taken before the judge he stated his position and the judge yelled at him in a loud voice " You are Crazy!!" Paul said no I'm not...

Anyway I could relate and once again they were ruling in error against Paul and bouncing Paul around like a hot potato...I could relate to that also because each court case hearing with me they played tag you're it, a different one each time, the one that made the error jumps ship and gives you back to the previous person....Then they change the case hearing to 'Relief from Judgment' meaning, we find no fault with this man...but we'll see soon I'm sure they're digging for a loophole, what court systems wants to admit they messed up? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Especially 4 times in a row...

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/25/03 04:41 PM
Hi All,

EC...

Ahhhh yes... Happy Monday... LOL.

Thanks for the congrats on finally getting the CS from exW. It probably does sting when it comes around on her payday... but I guess she should of been a responsible parent.

Maybe we could of worked something out instead of having to go down the road that she chose to go down. She always had to do everything the hard way it seems... and it doesn't appear that part of her has changed.

I may not have mentioned it... but my exW got "M' to the guy she was having an affair with while we were "M". I don't know when she got "M", I found out some time ago from my OD the last time I spoke to her, which was shortly after FATHER'S DAY.

I personally look for my exW to quit her job and either stop working all together... or try to find a new job. She doesn't like to pay for anything... she has always been the taker... not much on the giving side... so we will see how this all plays out.

Your going to see Don Knotts... I love Don knotts.

I thought he was at his best in the Andy Griffith Show, as well as that one animated movie... "The Incredible Mr. Lippet", or something like that.

Let us know how it all turns out.

Anyone wonder what Petvet is up to? We haven't heard anything from him... so hopefully that's a good sign.

Well everyone have a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/25/03 11:34 PM
Hey guys (and Relady if you're still around),

EC - You are brave to go to the circus and a show by yourself. Don't forget I live in Mayberry-land so I know all about Don Knotts! I couldn't go to places like that by myself (although I am now able to eat at nice restaurants alone) because the outings you mentioned are more involved than a sit-down dinner. So I treated myself to tickets to a "Best of Broadway" series here, but purchased two tickets. I figured I'd take one of the kids or a friend (female, of course!) because I just couldn't go by myself. Plus, it's possible I'd run into H if he was playing in the orchestra and I don't want him to perceive me as a loser (going alone). I know I'm not a loser but I don't want him to have any reason to think so (since he probably already does, having left me, LOL). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Wallace - What's your take on your exw's new husband? Do you think his family (assuming he has one) thinks it is strange that she doesn't interact with her own children? Is is possible that time she saw your YD at the grocery store that she had wanted to say something to her about getting married but chickened out? (I don't think I'll ever forget the mental image I had reading that recount of yours.) Has your g/f had more calls from her ex ?

Petvet - What's new with you?? Any more problems with son's talking to his mom about your life?

Relady - have you forsaken us? Even if nothing is going on, please check in.

Nothing new with me. Just waiting and my patience hasn't run out. You know, I wonder about DavePR and how his recovery is going. Do y'all ever think about that?
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/27/03 07:24 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

I don't blame you for not wanting to go out all by yourself. I think that after a certain amount of time passes during your marriage that you become accustomed to being with someone (your spouse and/or kids) and it's only natural to not want to be going out alone. Don't look at it as you feel like a loser... it takes more courage to go it alone than it does to go with others.

Personally I think it shows that your strong enough to be out there in the cold cruel world and you in fact don't need anyone else (except the Lord of course) to enjoy life.

I use to say to my exW... that it's the little things in life that counts... and if you don't have anyone to share them with... then they really don't mean that much and ar not really that important. I still hold to that statement... and I will probably never change my feelings about that. So IMHO... it is better to share as many life experiences you have with whomever you so chose to do so, as long as it follows the Lord's Word.

I'll go certain places by myself... but I enjoy the company of my kids or my girlfriend or both when I'm out doing certain things... it's just a habit that I formed during all the yours of my marriage. I haven't found a need to change it as of yet... so I look at it from the standpoint... "if ain't broke... don't fix it".

My G/F and I have been talking... and we would like to take our little "City Slicker" selves... and find a home in the country after we get "M"... and "Mayberry" would be perfect.

I have been wanting to do that for some time now... but only time will tell.

Getting to my YD, and her seeing her Mom at the grocery store. My exW may have wanted to tell my YD that she got "M", but chickened out. I know my YD was really upset about the whole thing... and to this day... still is.

Concerning my exW's husband and his family, IMHO... I think my exW's new husband's family probably could care less about whether she sees her children or not. From what I've heard... this guy is basically a bottom feeder... with kids and an exW to boot. My YD told me that he looks like a bum... literally. So if he sees his kids at all... they just inherited one doozie of a stepmom.

Concerning my G/F's exH calling all the time still. I haven't asked her if he has been calling. She has not stated that he has or has not been calling... so we will see how this one plays out.

Petvet...

O.K. Petvet... if your having that much fun... let us in on it. We like to hear about the good times as well, not just the bad times...LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

relady...

Did you go back on vacation again? Let us know how you are doing when you get time.

I do wonder how Dave is doing... I'm assuming he is doing well... otherwise we would of probably of seen him back on the boards.

Well everyone have a nice day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/28/03 10:48 AM
Hi folks! I have not forgotten about you; I have been reading your posts and run out of time to reply with the intention of comming back later only to forget. I have been very busy.

Wallace: Congrats on getting the CS from your ex. GREAT NEWS! I expect your ex to do something as well to complicate matters with the CS. If they need the money, her H is going to go bonkers if she tries to quit working, so we will see. As far as the exH of your GF is concern, your GF needs to establish a boundary to form around herself from him. You need to tell her what your expectations are. New spouses or significant others don't take to well to old flames or spouses being to invplve with their folks. It's a territory thing.

EC: My man it's just about over. It seems you have made it through the dark clouds with CS mess and your ex. Congrats to you as well.

Relady: Burnout on school? Need another vacation?

Avondale: Are you doing OK?

Me: I'm doing fine with buddy except for some issues concerning ex and kid, but I have resolved those issues.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/29/03 12:03 PM
I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOO ready for a long weekend! Not that I have any special plans, I just really need to NOT work. Hope you all have an enjoyable holiday too!

Petvet, at the rate you're moving, I think you will beat Wallace to the altar <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/29/03 07:39 PM
Hi everyone,

I just want to wish everyone a very safe and enjoyable "Labor Day" this weekend.

Petvet...

Thank you for the congrats on the CS isssue. It took a long time just to get that one check from her. We will see next week if she quit or jumped jobs... because it's time to get another check from her again. (I'll bet she is fit to be tied... she does love her money... and everyone elses as well).

I'm glad to hear that things are smoothing out for you... that's a nice feeling when everything starts to level back out again.

Any truth to what avondale stated? LOL

avondale...

I'm with you... I need these three days to try to get caught up on just about everything. There never is enough time in a day (especially when it's your day off... it goes by like lightning).

I think you maybe right... if I didn't know better, I think Petvet will beat me down to the Altar. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

EC, relady, and everyone else...

Hope all is well and that you have a good holiday.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/31/03 09:18 PM
EC - If you have time, please check out this thread by rufustfirefly:
How to Deal With No Contact
He is going through some of the stuff you did with your exw...and I think you could be a support for him.
Thanks, hope you're having a good holiday weekend!

<small>[ August 31, 2003, 04:19 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 09/02/03 07:33 PM
Hi Everyone, hope you all are doing well!

Avondale - Thanks for the thread link, I'll post something and try to give him some hope, I agree our stories are almost identical....

Ok Avondale check this out, you'll love this...I ran into this friend of mine and he is a WS and he M-OW recently, he and exw were married 25 years....I went to his old house/ex-w's house while he was there I saw him going in as I went past, he lives in another city than me...He visits his kids weekly....Well I've been wanting to talk to him for the past 4 years when I found out he left W, but I lived in out of state at the time...Well he said he was just talking about me 2 days ago and here I show up when we havent seen each other in 10 years.....

Well we had a talk about my failed M, and what the pain was like of the BS and why things are so hard and I said one, because OM is still in the picture, he said yeah I know....(His Ex-w is going through same thing because OW and his ex-w know each other well)

Anyway we talked and he told me how stupid he was for doing what he did and said 'ALL WS's Eyes do Open to the mess they created and the pain they caused......Then he said you know what? Me leaving my exW had really nothing to do with her, I'm the one that had the problem, sure she has issues but really it was me, he then said despite I'm with OW, I can't get exw to see that it wasn't about her and that she is pretty much fine, then I said well she probably feels like dirt, seeing you are with OW still, I said it hurts real bad, then he bowed his head, He then said I know and know matter many times I say I'm sorry, it just don't help...

Then he said I know I'm with OW but I just can't up and leave, God will have to do it, but I want to reconcile with my exw but she's still hurt and angry but we are starting to talk a little now...

I then told him, I said yep you got to do what's right and eventually go back to your exw otherwise you'll never have peace....He said yep but in Gods time...He said he couldn't rush it but knew the right way, he said it may take years before it's over between him and OW but he said we'll see...God has his timing...

He then said, you know EC, your exw wife knows the right way also, trust me! I know your exw is wrestling with it all, she knows too much, years ago I saw your exw live for God and believe me she knows what to do....He said I wanted to call you and comfort you when i heard about what happened but I knew by then everything had been said, at that point I knew your exw just got to go through the process like me and it's painful and unfilling, what an illusion, she'll never find what she's looking for out there in somebody else...

He then said "After I came out the deception nothing could help me but the Word of God", he said I even know the scripture of Hosea 2:7 "You shall follow your lovers but shall not overtake them, returning your spouse, etc...."

It was interesting because he still claims the house as his territory and I could tell he really wanted his wife and family back but he was stuck with OW, to leave her would be heart-breaking a failure.....One thing I could tell was that he was looking forward to getting back with his exw and if another guy popped up around her it would drive him insane....

But he said reconcilation would be nice...

He gave me his number and wants to talk some more...He said everybody threw him away when it first happened but he was glad to see I didn't...
I said my heart is always for a repented WS male or female...

Take Care....
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/02/03 09:36 PM
EC - wow, that is some kind of story! It kind of gives me hope. (I'm sure it gives you hope too!)
It also makes a good case for never remarrying, which I'm not sure I totally agree with - the thought of being alone for the next 40 years is not very appealing to me. Have you ever gone to that John Piper "Desiring God" site? It's Divorce & Remarriage
He's a highly thought of theologian, and I think he believes that only those who are widows/widowers should remarry, for the very reason that your friend said - what happens when the WS realizes they've made a horrible mistake, but either they or their BS has remarried? All avenues of reconciliation have been effectively closed by the new marriage. The original mistake (adultery) has been compounded by a new marriage that one cannot (or should not) now get out of.
Now I don't agree with him on that point, but I can certainly see his reasoning. It's kind of scarey in a way. Anyway, keep in touch with your friend. It's good he sees you as approachable. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

News from me - son moved out this weekend, going to school several states away. I don't know that I expect him back any time in the foreseeable future. I wonder if the fact that he is now out of the house will give WH the psychological freedom to go ahead and file for D, knowing that son won't be living in the house that we'll have to argue financially over...I'll keep y'all posted.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 09/03/03 02:41 PM
Hi All

Avondale - I haven't checked the site out yet but, I believe that a person can remarry if they have been totally violated by adultery however I think a person should try to reconcile first. My Pastor told me back then during counseling to make sure I was very patient with WW, very forgiving, overturn every stone and exhaust all options, then that way I know I really tried and would have no guilt or regretts if I got remarried....

I'm all for remarriage and I'm all for reconcilation, it really depends what happened during the marriage that caused the downfall, all divorces are not repairable and some aren't worth going back to if the person was abused, beatup, etc...

One thing my friend said was, you know, his exw is his soul mate, that's a part of him,thats his history and that they were together 25 years and nearly grew up together....

I asked him why was he so attached to the OW? He said because when he was at his lowest point nearly suicide OW came to his rescue and picked him up from the gutter of life...So therefore as you see he feels indebted to her...and she was going through a DV so she feels he rescued her also...

Problem now is she grabbed him when he was emotionally sick, now he is well and in his right mind and restored he's ready to go back home...however he don't want to hurt OW his now wife..so he's stuck and caught in the middle..

Me: Still no word from the hearing officer/judge yet...must be a tough issue??

Exww sent me a email that there's a chance they may be making a quick trip to my city? For what I don't know, I don't know if 'they' mean her and OM or her and my D's?.....This feels weird I haven't seen exw since 2001, D's since 2002.....She said she wants some of the pictures I have in my possession also.....To keep her from me, I said I'll just mail you some, she said no, I want to pick them out...

She has family here but a part of me says she's tying to see me also? I don't know but it's strange....

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/04/03 03:37 PM
Hi all,

I hope everyone had a good Labor Day weekend.

As usual it went by so fast... I wish the work week would go by as fast as my days off do.

EC...

That is a very interesting story. It does give you cause for pause after reading it.

IMHO, it is in fact the WS's problems and issues that they are dealing with that cause them to do the things that they do. I know we all second guess ourselves and wonder... "well what is wrong with me, to cause them to do this" when we find out what the real truth is. When in fact... it's not us with the problems... it's them.

Yes, we all helped contribute to the situation that we found ourselves in. But one person can't fix a troubled marriage by themselves... it takes both spouses, prayer, and God, to help put it back together again, and to help keep it where it needs to be.

It took me quite awhile to figure that one out. I self evaluated myself so many times that I lost count after everything had happened. I looked at myself as the bad guy... when in fact... I wasn't the bad guy. I wasn't perfect... but I wasn't the bad guy.

To bad your friend finally realized what he did... but he still does not want to make things right and correct his mistake.

He didn't seem to have a problem hurting his wife's feelings when he went off with the OW. I question someone's integrity when they say he doesn't want to hurt the OW's feelings by leaving her... when he didn't seem to have too big of a problem leaving his "W".

He should do the right thing... and try to make amends to his wife and see if he can repair all the damage he did, and try to put his "M" back together... that would be the right thing to do.

I don't want to sound harsh... but this guy IMHO sounds like a walking, talking, bag of excuses.

Oh... I'm sure he is sincere when he tells you he feels the way he does about what he did and the devastation he probably left in his wake. I think they all eventually do after it's all said and done with.

In the end... he is still putting the OW's feelings ahead of his exW's... he should do the right thing and dump the other woman and get back with his exW and make things right, and drop all of the excuses.

I'm sorry... but this just kind of hit me the wrong way. IMO, I just read between the lines and it still sounds like typical "Fog" talk to me.

So your exW is coming to town to see you?

How do you feel about seeing her since it has been so long?

Me...

Well my G/F got news that her Mom has Cancer.

Her and her brothers are going to New Mexico where her mother now lives and they are moving her to Denver. They are leaving this Friday and are probably going to be gone for about a week.

My G/F's mother has been a widow for about 5 years and she doesn't have any family down there... they are all in Colorado. So they thought it would be best if they brought her up here so they could all look after her.

Aside from that... all is quiet at this point in time, which is just the way I like it.

Hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/06/03 05:44 AM
Hi all!

EC: That's a interesting story you told about your acquaintance. I think most Ws do have that moment where they know that they have screwed up.

Avondale: I cannot imagine being by myself either for 40 or more years. I know the waiting is killing you.

Wallace: I am sorry to hear about your GF mother. It's a good move on your GF family part to move their mom close to them.

Me: I'm doing OK. Ex has been calling this week complaining that she does not have enough money to pay her rent. She told me that I should let her move back in with me and our son. She said that the child support money she is paying is killing her financially. She claims that she had to get help from her church this month to pay rent. She told me that I don't care about her and that I am not a real man. What can I say?

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 09/08/03 12:46 PM
Hi Gang!

Hope your weekend was great!!

Hi Pevet - I see you're still dealing with exw issues. I tell you what, when they complain that CS is hurting....Oh'it's hurting, I'm surprized she would suggest getting back together, has she come to herself or is this for economic reasons?....Hmmm?

Wallace - I spoke of my friend the male WS to show how they war between there emotions of knowing what is right, yet they choose what is wrong, what a waste of your life living life stuck between two people...

Avondale - Hope you had a good weekend. I'll be glad when something happens for you, it's a tough place you're in but you'll make. I believe no matter what the outcome God will either give you your husband back restored a new man or God will let your husband continue in his prideful path. At this point I know you're standing and don't let loose, don't let any guy invade you're time of healing with seducing words to lead you astray. If your husband files for DV you know you did all you could do, and afterwards you will feel free and no regretts or guilt, etc..If you file for DV the WS will try to turn it on you, so just wait it out. Most WS's don't take responsibily for there actions, until they repent...

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/08/03 06:06 PM
Hey y'all,
I had a very good weekend - went to visit my dad for a day, and then chilled out Sunday cuz the weather here was PERFECT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Hope you all made the most of your days off too!

EC - You have me pegged perfectly. I am fine waiting, although I admit I really was prepared for D by now. However, thinking about it, I wonder if he was waiting for our son to move out of the house, so son wouldn't be "caught in the middle" so to speak. (Son moved last weekend out of state.) Then I thought, well he might wait til end of September since we have an anniversary next week. (Of course, that didn't stop him from initiating legal separation papers on the date of our anniversary last year <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ). Then I think, why should he file, he has everything he wants, cake, frosting, and filling! But I'm perfectly OK waiting, I'm not going to give up.

Petvet - I'd tease you about being online at 12:44 AM on the weekend....but I don't want it to stop you from posting here! So I'll just leave it alone.

I haven't heard from Relady since I emailed her about 10 days ago. Maybe she's out of town??
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/09/03 10:37 AM
Hi all!

EC: After I thought about things, I think ex married me in the first place for economic reasons, and she surely would want to move back into the house for economic reasons as well. I don't want her nor her problems. She is TROUBLE.

Avondale: I am happy you are satisfied where you are right now.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 09/10/03 12:59 PM
Hi Everyone,

Just passing thru to drop a line " Hello".

Nothing new happening on my end just living life...I just missed a cut back - layoff in my dept,part of downsizing it came suddenly but I was assured my position is secure, I didn't know what to think for a moment there.......

Well still no word from the Court yet on there decision another week will be 30 days....

I have a feeling they may stall things until YD turns 18 in about 42 days and it's possible they may declare she's an adult and end all CS, yet she's still in Hschool until May...We'll see..

If that occurs by then exw may want to let me pay outside of court for the remainder 7 months rather than filing CS papers again having all the hassle....If above occurs I only have 3 payments left under court order.....That would be nice
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/11/03 03:40 AM
Hi all!

EC: I know you will be glad when the CS issue is brought to rest. You should be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel now.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/12/03 03:52 PM
Hey All,

Well it has been a pretty busy week, not on the business side, but on my personal side.

G/F got back in town about 2 days ahead of her anticipated schedule and got her Mom situated.
Her and her brothers when in and got the wole situation taken care of in one day... once they all got there... I was impressed to say the least.

Nothing much else really new on my end.

EC...

I'm glad to hear that you dodged the lay-off where you work. I'll bet your relieved of that... it's getting rough out there.

It's slow here as well... in fact I think it's slow just about everywhere.

I dodged the last lay-off that they did where I work... if it stays as slow as it has been here... I'm not so sure I will be able to dodge the next one.

Well I hope all of you have a very safe and good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/16/03 10:50 AM
Oh no, we're on page two of the D/D forum! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Thursday will be my 27th anniversary. Last year I sent a "thinking of you" type of card to H. (Then I got notice that he signed legal separation papers on the same date!) I hadn't even thought of sending one this year, but yesterday I wondered "what if something as simple as a card somehow gave him pause for thought"? So now I'm contemplating what to do. I probably have to act on it by tonight, if I do send one. I guess it wouldn't hurt anything except my pride if I do send one, right?
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/17/03 10:42 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: Despite what "Talking Heads" are saying in Washington, the economy is not good. I had someone in the banking industry to tell me that deposits are down. I don't know what is going to happen.

Avondale: If you want to send a card, do it. Just think very carefully before you make the move.

Me: I have been very busy professionally and personally. I have been putting out fires all over the place.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/17/03 11:41 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Me: I have been very busy professionally and personally. I have been putting out fires all over the place.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Petvet - All over the place? Do tell us about it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/17/03 03:51 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

Sorry I didn't get back to you on whether to send the card or not. (I had Jury duty yesterday and a ton of house work).

I would send the card. You have absolutely nothing to lose (except your pride maybe)... but I see no harm done by sending it.

Petvet...

I have my eyebrows raised after that last "putting out the fires" statement.

I'm all ears... LOL j/k <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/23/03 12:35 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: What did you do about the card?

Wallace: How is everything going with your GF?

Me: FIRES <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> My ex has been trying to create trouble with me through my son. She is still trying to get info from him about what's going on in the household. Buddy's girl has done a Jekyll and Hyde on me and my son. Months ago she love me, now she does not like me. Go figure! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/23/03 09:51 PM
Petvet - So what can you do about your exw pumping your son for info? I feel bad about him being put "in the middle". I know that's a common problem for divorced people who have young children. What actions are you taking? And I'm sorry to hear about your buddy's daughter being wishy-washy...do you think someone (her dad, perhaps?) is feeding her info (lies) about you?

I decided to send the anniversary card. No comment from H about it (not surprising, since I didn't respond to his b'day gift to me). However, I did get an email from my brother in law, apologizing again for H's actions and how they've hurt me. It made me feel good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am still in "wait and see" mode, and I'm still OK with that. I continue to pray for H every day.

<small>[ September 23, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/24/03 10:20 PM
Hi All,

Well I have been pretty busy just trying to take care of day to day business and I'm still trying to put out some of the last remaining fires that I have smoldering.

Petvet...

Why do you think your exW is trying to pump information out of your son?

Do you think... it's because she may have come to the realization that she screwed up... and maybe she is looking for an opening to to try to get back into your life?

I'm finding to a certain degree in my situation that children from two different households can sometimes be somewhat disrupting in any new relationship.

Even though I will have been dating my G/F for almost a year next month (can you believe it... a year has gone by already), that every now and then... some things creep in that can cause some sort of a problem between you and your friends children.

In my situation... they were all pretty minor and they blew over in a very short period of time. You just kind of have to roll with the punches and go with the flow to the best of your ability until things start to settle down. Hopefully in time your buddy's child will begin becoming comfortable with you.

I think what avondale stated my hold a lot of water.



avondale...

I'm glad to hear that you decided to go ahead with sending something to your "H".

I'm sure it didn't surprise you that you didn't get any response... it's too bad that it has to be like that.

Have you heard anything from relady?

EC...

How are you making out?

From what I've seen lately... you haven't posted in awhile.

If you get time let us know how you are making out.

Hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 09/29/03 08:48 PM
Hello Guys and Gals,

Hope everyone's weekend went well.

Nothing new happening on my end. I did finally hear from the court and they denied my request however I appealed and another court hearing should be in about a week or two....Despite it all I'm almost at the end of all this.

YD's b-day is coming up in a few weeks, haven't spoken to YD/OD in over a month. I decided to see if they would call me but they haven't...So life moves on and as I said once the child support is over reality will hit exww and she will lose all her power and she knows it's coming....

One thing I've learned is that no matter where you live in life, life is what you make it...You have the choice to live in joy and peace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> or depression and sorrow <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> ...

Never live your with people around you who second guess you all the time, you'll never become one and true to yourself...ignore the opinions of others, why? because they don't know you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/01/03 11:36 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I'm glad you are happy with you are right now. I hate that your H is putting you on hold. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> As far as ex is concern, I think she is trying to figure out what's going on in this household. She knows that I don't want to have anything to do with her. I have stop taking kid around buddy anymore because I don't want him to have anything to share with anyone. Did I tell you that about a month ago that ex made the comment that I should let her move back in? I justed let the comment blow right over my head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Wallace: It has been a year since you took up with your friend. Time goes by fast. How are things going?

EC: Why is th court giving you such a hard time? To me, the case seems fairly simple.

Me: I have been counting my blessings. Things are going OK.

And I'm gone.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/01/03 02:59 PM
Hi All,

EC...

I'm sorry to hear that your still dealing with the CS and the Court issues. Hopefully you can get it resolved when you go back in.

I'm glad to see that your able to stay strong through all of this... you are to be commended.

Petvet...

I think the decision you made concerning not having your son around when you are with your buddy is a good one. I basically had to severe ties with my OD due to the fact that she was going back and telling my exW everything that we had going on. She did a few other things to seal the deal as far as severing contact with her... but that was one of many reasons why I chose the route that I did.

I am now fighting with the IRS... because my exW under stated her income in the year 2001. I filed for spousal relief, as we were legally seperated when we did the joint filing and 1 month after we filed the tax return we split up for good. So we will see what happens there.

This month on October the 12th, I will have been going out with my G/F for one year. It just doesn't seem like it's been that long... but in fact it has.

I put in a new wood floor in my G/F living room this past weekend. Needless to say... I was a little sore after that was all said and done with. I think I'm starting to get old! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Well I hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/02/03 04:54 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: You are not getting old; you just shook the dust off some of your bones and muscles you have not been using as of late. Your friend should appreciate what you do for her. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: T00MuchCoffeeMan Re: Tough Love - 10/02/03 05:24 AM
Wallace I'm sorry to hear about you and your OD but she has to learn to respect your boundaries, and if not then she's going to have to pay the consequences.

It's interesting how these divorce wars lower our tolerance for nonsense, isn't it?
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/02/03 12:21 PM
Petvet - I also think you made the right decision. It's one thing when your child is young and doesn't quite understand the ramifications of their "telling" the exspouse what is going on - in most cases I'm sure it's very innocently done. However, as Wallace stated, once your child is more aware of what they're doing, and realizes how the exspouse reacts, it's a whole other story.

Wallace - I hope your GF appreciates all your efforts. Since you're adding to the value of her house, I hope you're getting something out of it. Chocolate cake, perhaps? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL

EC - Even though the girls haven't called you, that shouldn't stop YOU from calling THEM. Otherwise, it could be assumed you're as stubborn as they are! Why not you be the one to give in and call them? Or maybe you were going to call YD on her birthday anyways?

I am not sure what's up with Relady - she hasn't answered my two emails in almost 6 weeks. Hope she's not injured or something...

Nothing new with me, either. At this point, no news is good news for now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/02/03 04:05 PM
Hi everyone,

Wallace you're not getting old, wiser? yes....A new life is just beginning and what an opportunity to do something you've never done before.....

Avondale - I haven't called YD/OD to be stubborn, but I backed off because as I said it's all been a oneway conversation - They only talk when asked a question as if I'm wasting there time...They're only interest for me is " Where's the money?" however exww has it....I plan to get YD a good gift as I did last year(a TV). This year something just as nice....

For the past 3 years I've called every week or every other week...They've only resisted and never want to come visit...So now that they are almost 18 and 20....They have to make up in there own mind if they want a relationship...I've tried and cried long enough, they are under the brainwash of exww and OM....

So once the child support ends, the issue will change, exww will lose all power...

It's very difficult when you've been labeled as the bad guy before your kids and things look that way to someone there age who don't know the full story or know whats happening....In the past when I tell them something there mother is doing to me they immediately jump to her defense and say I'm lying and there mother would never do such a thing....Even regarding some of the court issues...I never put them in the middle but exww tells them a twisted story and they want to know why am I doing this and that...SO there you have it...It only seperates us more and more when I have to tell them, it seperates us more when they ask and if I don't tell them they think I dont because I'm trying to hide something or they think they're not mature enough to know and get offended, If I tell they think I'm trying to talk bad of there mom.....It's a catch 22

Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/02/03 04:30 PM
EC - I remembered your history when I wrote my post. And I apologize for using the word "stubborn" because it gave the post a different focus. Maybe I should have written it differently....what I meant was to not stop doing what you've been doing (specifically calling) just because they're not responding appropriately. You don't want them to have an opportunity to think "dad only called because he had to since he was giving us money, and now that it's almost over he's lost interest" (or reason to have to).

Even when they question why your story differs from their mother's, the bottom line is that you are in contact with them and I think that's important. Even arguing is a form of communication, a way of reaching out (both ways). It is really hard to bridge a communication gap after it becomes non-existent, especially since y'all are in different states.

IMHO, I think you should continue to call, and continue to answer their questions when appropriate (at your discretion). At some point they'll realize you were telling the truth all along. But if you don't call, it just sends a message of disinterest that is difficult to undo.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/03/03 08:20 PM
Hi All,

It's been another busy week for me... but I'm going into the wind down phase now.

TMCM...

I agree with you completely about setting boudaries with my OD... severing contact with her was about the only option that was left for me to do, as much as I hate to say it.

Never in all my life could I ever imagine things turning out the way they did... it's a darn shame!

Petvet...

I'm in full agreement with avondale in what she posted. I think you made the right move as well.

How is it all going for you now?

LOL... I guess I did shake the dust off these old bones of mine. I thought I was in pretty decent shape until I got on the wood floor installation.

I felt crippled about 2 days afterwards... LOL! I could barely walk, and I'm not kidding!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I get to put in all the trim in the living room this weekend... "Oh Happy Day"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'll probably need a wheelchair after this weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

avondale...

You still haven't heard from relady?

I wonder how she is doing... I hope she is O.K.!

You haven't heard anything from your "H" still?

Hang in there... you have done so well so far... I am very proud of you... you really are an inspiration.

If you hear anything from relady let us know... it just seems kind of odd that she would just drop off the face of the planet like that.

EC...

As usual and again I agree with everything that avondale just posted to you.

I somewhat know how you feel... and it is a hard nut to swallow.

Keep doing just exactly what you have been doing and don't change it.

Eventually... they will wake up... and see you in the true light that is shining upon you.

It may take some time... but you will go from being the bad guy to being the good guy... it's just going to take some time. I know... I'm talking from experience.

Well everyone have a good day, and a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/07/03 12:26 AM
Hi all!

Thanks Avondale & Wallace. I think you are right about keeping kid away from buddy.

EC: Think of it this way, by calling you are planting seeds that may bear fruit later.

Where's Relady?

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/09/03 04:11 PM
Hey all,

Not much new on this end.

I'm still fighting with the IRS over my exW's under reporting of her taxes for the 2001 tax year.

I can't believe... I still haven't been able to clear all of her garbage out of the way as of yet.

Hey... I got a question.

For the past 2 weeks... I have had dreams almost nightly with my exW in them. I don't know what the dreams consist of... I just know that she is in them. You would think that after almost a year and half that I wouldn't be thinking about her at all.
But there she is... showing up in my dreams or maybe they are nightmares... I can't remember... but I know it leaves me with a very uneasy feeling while I'm having them... to the point where sometimes they wake me right out of a dead sleep.

Has anybody else gone through this?

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/10/03 05:09 AM
Wallace,
For some reason I'm thinking you said this had happened before. I don't know what it means...I'm not really into "dream interpretation". Maybe you ate some bad tacos the night before? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> (sorry, couldn't resist!)

What do YOU think it means? Or better yet, what do you WANT it to mean?
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/09/03 06:42 PM
Hi,

Gang

Wallace - I have had dreams before of exww and as anyone you'll dream of them because you miss them because they were a part of you, but after many years go by our dreams can mean something else regarding our ex. Dreams are all through the bible so it's not at all so strange sometimes when we have them.

If you would like to share it please do so...

Avondale - Hope all is going well with you.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/10/03 09:06 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

LOL... I think you maybe on to something about tacos and these dreams/nightmares. I ate a burrito last night... and guess what? That's right... I had another dream/nightmare about my exW again.

Your recollection of this happening to me before is also correct. It has been quite some time since that has happened... but it seems to have started up again for some reason.

I don't know what they mean... or what I want them to mean... all I know is they are just happening... and they are happening every night now.

It's kind of creepy to tell you the truth. I've had some that have just jolted me straight up out of bed. I was in a dead sweat through a couple of them when I was jolted straight up in my bed.

I know my 1 year divorce date is coming up this month on the 22nd., but I don't think it has anything to do with this.

EC...

I have had so many of these dreams in the past week... it's hard to put a description behiind them... It don't know what they are about... I just know she is in them... that's all I remember so far.

If I can remember one that makes any kind of sense... I'll let you know.

I was never much for trying to figure out what a dream may or may not mean... but this is really starting to work me.

Maybe I need a shrink? Maybe I'm loosing it. Here lately... I'm starting to wonder.

Well I hope everyone has a good weekend... and if anyone can think of anything concerning why this may be happening to me... I'm all ears.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/11/03 12:12 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: I don't know what to make of your dreams. Just from personal experience, I am finding it very hard to eliminate ex from my thinking. Even though I want to erase her from my life, my mind won't let me do so. I think the fact that you know that they are still out there causes some issues as far as flash backs etc. It will prpbably take years if ever for us to get through this mentally. We carry the wounds from the battle we have gone through mentally and physically.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/11/03 02:03 PM
Hey Guys!
As for the dream thing - if you've been married for ANY reasonable length of time, it seems to me there is NO WAY you can avoid having thoughts of your ex-spouse. The lapse of time can diminish memories, but not only do you have a history with your ex, but you have kids and their business to always remind you of your life with your ex. How practical is it to even "TRY" to erase them from your mind? I can understand the reasons wanting to, but how realistic is it to really do so? It seems to me it would almost be an exercise in frustration.

Of course, I'm not as far along as y'all are so I'm speaking more hypothetically and not from personal experience. I might think differently next year,LOL.

Meanwhile I Googled "Christian dream interpretation" (so as to not get the "tarot card dream interpretation" version <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) and this site seems to have acceptable Statement of Faith: Lapstone Dream Interpretation. Maybe it will give suggestions for figuring out your dream(s).
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/13/03 12:41 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: What you said was so true. I have come to te realization that "It is what it is". I deal with ex and keep on keeping on. I try to put forth the positive in me, and let her do whatever she does.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 10/14/03 07:15 PM
Hi everyone! Long time, Hope everyone is doing well. Just wanted to say hi and see how everyone was doing here.

Things are going well for me and my family, kids are now 3 and 5, daughter started school this year. Our marriage is doing well although sometimes still dealing with the past issues, I don't think that you ever get 100% over them, maybe you get to 95% and that is good enough.
The changes that I made as a result of working on myself though MB have really paid off. In the 1.5 years since we have been back together I have not once gone out with the guys, do not drink (not that I had a drinking problem), work much better hours, spend more time with the family, and try to be a better person.

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/14/03 07:27 PM
Dave
I hope you're still online and can see this! It's great to hear from you. We've asked about you and RMA several times over the last year or so. What an encouraging report - your story can give all MBers hope!

Stop by anytime <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/15/03 04:27 AM
Hi all!

Dave!Dave! Dave! I am so happy to hear from you. I was just thinking about you and RMA just the other day. I was wondering how things were going. I am happy to hear that you have used the things learned on MB to better your relationship. I am happy for you. RMA! Where are you? Relady? Where are you hiding? Remember us?

Avondale: It is nice to know that using the techniques learned on MB really work.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/15/03 03:22 PM
Hi All,

Dave...

It's good to hear from you and it's also good to hear that you and your family are doing well.

I as well, was wondering how you were making out... and I'm glad to hear that everything is working out well.

I'm sure it's hard work and you had to make certain changes... but it's worth all the effort that your putting forth, I'm sure.

Keep up the good work and keep in touch when you can.

avondale...

Thank you for that dream link. I went over to their site and checked it out... and found it quite interesting.

I haven't had any dreams/nightmares with the exW in them for the last 4 days and counting... which for me is good.

I agree with you about the history aspect and such. You just can't shut that off and pretend like it never existed. There has been many times when I wish I could though... I'll elaborate more on this in my response to Petvet.


Petvet...

It's been almost 1 year since my "D", and I don't think a day has passed that I haven't thought about my exW at least one time during the day.

Deep down somewhere inside me... I know that I still have very strong feelings for her... but on the other hand... I know that I could never go back to that type of a situation ever again. In fact I'm surprised that I put up with it for as long as I did.

I pray on it all the time!

I ask the Lord to please release me from the torment of it all... but so far... it still lingers. Hopefully the Lord's reasoning for not releasing me from this will someday reveal it self.

I'm finding that my feelings for my G/F are dwindling as time goes on, and I don't understand why. She is a very good person, and I feel very lucky to have met her. You would think my feeling for my exW would dwindle instead of my feeling for my G/F... but it's quite the opposite and I don't understand why.

I think it may have to do with my G/F wanting to get "M", and me on the other side still trying to put my life back into perspective. I have to do that first before I can ever bring anyone else into my life, and commit to "M".

I'm still doing a self evaluation on myself... 1-1/2 years and counting. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I don't know where it's going to lead me... but I guess I'm well on my way

I hope everyone has a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/16/03 03:04 PM
Hi All,

Well last night for me was very interesting.

My G/F and I usually go to Church every Wednesday and for the most part we have not really missed that many Wednesday services. When I spoke to her by phone last night... she stated that she was tired and didn't feel up to going to Church.

Well it appears that her OS decided he was going to move back home last night. She now has all three of her kids living back home now.

Well long story short after several attempts by phone for both of us, trying to decide what if anything we were going to do for Wednesday night... she finally got back to me at about 9:30 p.m.

Well for me... the night was shot with a work week and all.

Well, prior to this instance... I have been contemplating giving her some space and letting her take care of everything that she has going on for awhile because of other things that have happened more times than I cared for.

So when she called me back at about 9:30, I said to her that maybe we needed to take a break from each other for a couple of weeks...I also stated that she seemed to have too much going on at the moment, and this would give her a chance to get caught up on all that she has going.

Well there was a huge pause of silence which seemed like an eternity after I said this, and then all of a sudden, I hear from her, "O.K., goodbye! And then click... she hung the phone up on me.

Now she knows that I hate to be hung up on... major LB, because I have stated it to her and she has done this once before.

So here I am the following day... wondering if I should just move on and call it a day with her, or let the day go by and maybe call her tomorrow.

I'm really starting to feel that I should just move on, but there is something inside me that says maybe you should try to resolve the problem.

If anyone has any suggestions... I'm all ears.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/16/03 06:00 PM
Wallace,
I will reply when I get home from work. My office computer is old and slow and I want to think before I type. Not that I will have pearls of wisdom, but I will respond. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: MONTEHALLL Re: Tough Love - 10/16/03 07:48 PM


<small>[ November 03, 2003, 01:27 PM: Message edited by: MONTEHALLL ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/16/03 09:52 PM
Monte - I think the guys here can answer your “When is enough, enough?” question better than I can, as they’re farther along than I. Or better yet, copy and paste your post here and make it a new topic on the board. Hopefully you’ll get a good variety of responses that should help.

I do have a few questions though. Why are you being sued? With a small son, you can’t afford to get antagonistic with your wife about custody or support, etc. I know it’s difficult to put several years’ worth of marriage problems in one post but it seems like you and your wife aren’t on the same wavelength (not agreeing to counseling at same time). One of you needs to give in on some things to give your marriage every opportunity to work, and it will probably have to be you. Are you up to the challenge?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wallace - I'm going to use the Chris-CA123 method of reply.

I'm finding that my feelings for my G/F are dwindling as time goes on, and I don't understand why.
Well, I'm not a shrink, but two things come to mind: (1) either you're comparing your feelings for her for what you initially had with your exw (i.e., rose-colored glasses) or (2) maybe she's just not THE ONE.

I think it may have to do with my G/F wanting to get "M",
Is she still bringing this up? I thought it was made very clear that it's wayyyyy down the timeline.

When I spoke to her by phone last night... she stated that she was tired and didn't feel up to going to Church....Well it appears that her OS decided he was going to move back home last night
Does this mean she misled - or lied <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> - to you as to why she didn't want to go to church?

So when she called me back at about 9:30, I said to her that maybe we needed to take a break from each other for a couple of weeks...I also stated that she seemed to have too much going on at the moment, and this would give her a chance to get caught up on all that she has going.
Wallace, what you said here is a classic "break up" line! That's probably why she reacted by being abrupt in closing the conversation. Technically she didn't hang up because she said goodbye, LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> So this may not be a LB in the truest sense.

My advice is to have a cooling period for both of you (if you can stand it!) and then call or email her about talking this through. I would also be concerned about some of the things mentioned above.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/17/03 04:43 PM
HI ALL,

MONTE...

First of all I would like to say congrats on reading through all 106 pages of this thread... that's a lot of reading. Welcome to this thread as well, as any and all are welcome to chime in if they feel they would like to post something.

I read your situation and I will give you my take on this based on what I've read so far!

First of all... to anwer your question of when is enough, enough?

For each person it's different... so there is no set answer to this question. The reason being is certain people can tolerate and put up with much more than others. You will have no doubt in your mind... when you have come to the end of the line... and you may probably say to yourself, "that's it... I'm all done".

In my situation... I could and did tolerate my exW stealing money from me for a very long time. When I found out that she in fact was having an affair... I immediately said that was it, and filed for "D" and followed through with it.

I filed not as a bluff or a tool to try to win her heart back... I filed, because I truly had had enough, and I wanted out.

A question you need to ask yourself.

1. Do I really want a "D", or would I rather see if I can work things out with my "W" using MB's principals.

If you have any doubts about filing for "D", then you have already answered your question. Your not ready to call it a day.

I'm assuming that the guy you beat up is suing you for damages... am I correct on that assumption?

I can understand your reaction as to why you beat this guy up... but you didn't help yourself by following through with it. I'm surprised he didn't file charges on you for assault... be thankful that he wasn't smart enough to do that.

We all know all about the lies WS's tell. Believe nothing of what they say... and only half of what you see. There is nothing new in that area. They will say and do whatever they can in order to take the heat off of them.

Divorcing your "W" is a decision that only you can make. It takes two people working on the "M" to make it work. Both of you have to truly want the "M" to work, and you will both need to give it everything you have and then some, to see your efforts pay off.

I firmly believe that most marriages can be saved, but it cannot be saved by just one person alone.

If your "W" is truly sincere in wanting to save the "M", then I would start Plan A., and get MC either with the Harley's here or with a MC, that can and will help you both work on your "M". IMHO, there are many MC out there that have no business being a MC, so make sure you pick a good one.

On the other hand... if you have truly had enough, and you don't see things getting better... then I would go into Plan B., and see what transpires during that time. Give it at least 6 months... before coming to your final decision as to what you intend to do.

Divorce... is the end of the line. Make sure that whatever decision you make... is truly the one you want.


avondale...

I think you hit the nail right on the head concerning the standard break-up line. My G/F called me last night... and in fact that is exactly how she took it.

When I made that statement... I in fact was very sincere... it was not meant to say to her that I wanted to break up with her. I really did feel she needed some time without me. She in fact did think I wanted to break up with her.

When I talked with her on the phone last night we both decided to take a break from each other. By the tone of her conversation... I don't think it will be for very long... maybe at best this weekend. She asked me if I wanted to go to Church with her on Sunday... so it's not me that can't hold out... LOL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I don't think she was telling a lie when she said she was tired... I think there was an act of ommision, which might possibly be construed as somewhat of a lie... but I'm not taking that part of it too serious.

The thing that surprised me I guess the most... is her letting her OS move back home. She wants very much to get "M", and she knows I'm not going to move forward on that until all of our kids are out on their own.

So here is where it lies at the moment... she's frustrated that I'm not ready to get "M" to her right here and right now... knowing full well that based on both of our decisions we were not going to get "M" until all the kids were on their own.
She lets her OS move back home... which puts all of her kids still living with her... until who knows when.

Now from my end... I'm perfectly content with the way things are now. She is the one getting all bent out of shape over this latest move by her OS.

So I think her frusrations are causing most of her problems right at the moment. I'm trying to help her where and when I can.

Sometimes it seems like no matter what I do or say though... it comes out wrong.

We seem to be having a very hard time with the communication aspect of this relationship... which is unfortunate... because in fact, it's my #1 EN.

She is suppose to call me this afternoon... so I guess I'll go with the flow for a little while and see how this all plays out.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: MONTEHALLL Re: Tough Love - 10/17/03 06:58 PM


<small>[ November 03, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: MONTEHALLL ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/17/03 08:36 PM
Monte,
Based on your last post this afternoon, I don't think you have anything to lose by continuing to "Plan A" your wife. After all, you said she's still in the house with you. Your lawyer was right, if you move out it may affect custody down the road, so stay put for now. If someone has to move, let it be her!

It sounds like you were doing a lot of good things but were those actions (flowers, tickets, vacations, etc.) what your wife needed to meet her needs? Do you have any idea what her needs in a relationship are? Have you read up on that part of this website? If not, check out this link:
The Most Important Emotional Needs

Hope everyone has a good weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/17/03 09:11 PM
Hi All,

MONTE...

I'm in full agreement with what avondale posted.

Just curious... why does your WW want to go to a MC if she is acting this way?

Was there ever a point when all of the things you tried to do for her ever please her... and if so, when did you notice that it had changed and what was transpiring at the time?

avondale...

How are you making out?

Any news from your "H" as of yet?


EC...

If I remember correctly... you just had a Birthday recently... didn't you?

A belated "Happy Birthday" to you EC.

I hope you had a good time on your "BD".

So that makes you what... 29 years old now? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


Petvet...

Hows things going for you?

I hope your making out better than I am.

Me...

Well my G/F called and we have decided that we are not going to see each other for at least this weekend. I'll fill in everyone on this little scenario as it progesses... I'm sure it will get interesting.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ October 17, 2003, 04:17 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: MONTEHALLL Re: Tough Love - 10/18/03 01:29 PM


<small>[ November 03, 2003, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: MONTEHALLL ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/20/03 08:23 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a decent weekend... mine started out a little shakey... but then things started to even out.

MONTE...

It always seems that when a "M" starts falling apart... people start finally telling you things about your spouse that in some cases you really find hard to believe that a spouse could actually look you in the eye... lie to you and then turn around and carry on they way they do. But unfortunately they do just exactly that type of thing... time and time again.

I have a friend that appears to going through a very similiar situation that you are right now. His WW is pretty much acting in a similiar fashion.

He is pretty much heading in the same direction as you are I feel.

About the only thing you can do IMHO at this stage is try to take care of yourself and look after you childs well being.

It sounds like your WW is in a deep fog and the only thing you can do at this point is Plan A. for yourself and your child and let this take whatever course you both decide to follow through with.

It sounds like your WW doesn't want to be confronted with reality... the MC must of hit her with that, that's why she's all done with going to see the MC anymore.

I guess the question I have... is what would you like to see happen at this point in time... knowing all that has happened thus far?


Me...

Well my G/F and I went one whole Friday without seeing each other. I guess she felt she was punishing herself as much as she was me... so for the time being... all seems to be going well again.

Hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/20/03 09:25 PM
Wallace
Somehow I knew your "cooling off" period wouldn't last, LOL

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: MONTEHALLL Re: Tough Love - 10/21/03 02:33 PM


<small>[ November 03, 2003, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: MONTEHALLL ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/21/03 04:56 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

I am so sorry to hear that this is happening to you.

How did you come to find all this out?

My prayers are with you... and I hope everything works to your advantage and that your hospital stay is short.

Concerning your "H" and giving him the information that he is seeking. I would open up a dialoge with him concerning what you have going on, if he wants to communicate. I don't think it will hurt anything... in fact it could possibly help reestablish the beginning stages of something more fruitful.

Thankfully your D is there for you... she sounds like she is a sweet girl.

I would definitely get you will in order... not necessarily because of what's going on now (I'm sure you will be fine), but it's always good to have all your legal paper work in order just in case.

What you have going on... is one of my worst fears. If I go down for any reason... I'm in deep trouble. I'm still trying to recover from all the financial devestation that my exW left me with.

My prayers are with you avondale... keep us informed as things progress.


MONTE...

You know what?

Based on your last post... I think you need to stay in Plan A, and work your tail off to try to save your "M".

Is it a game that your WW is playing or is there hope for your "M".

It sounds like she is definitely in a fog and she is confused. Notice that she didn't close the door on your question... she left the door open... to be discussed at a later date.

IMHO, I think how you act in the next couple of weeks concerning your "M" is going to determine the outcome.

Plan A., and see if you can't get your "M" put back on the right road... this may be your last chance to do just that.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Roll Me Away Re: Tough Love - 10/22/03 12:01 AM
Hello, all!!!

I just had a feeling I should check in here today and ont he previous page I see where avondale and Petvet have been calling me back here. I guess you guys and I have a true telepathic connection, because tonight I just had the feeling I should check in here.

I haven't read but the last 2 pages - did see my old friend davepr's post. Davepr, I am so happy for you and your family! It is awesome that you took the time to post a happy outcome on this board, in particular.

Petvet, I read a little that you still think about your ex-W. Sure you do, my friend. You loved her and a part of you will always love a part of her. Try to steer your thoughts and actions toward a relationship with your son's Mom that does nothing but makes things the best for him. Life will work things out for you....in TIME. You are just too impatient, my dear friend!!

Wallace, golly, I am telling you that you need an emotional REST! I only read a couple of your posts and all I can say is that the merry-go-round continues for you. I worry that yo are in a relationship that isn't the right one for this time in your life. Please know that I say that to you will love and friendship i my heart!

avondale, is it you having the surgery? You are in my prayers for both your physical and emotional heart, dear friend!

Didn't get a chance to read any other posts. So sorry to all! Just know that I still do care so very much for each and every one of you!! Keep praying and always strive to be a better person tomorrow than you are today! God will answer every prayer that you pray....in His time. Keep the faith and keep supporting each other!

As for me, my H and I are doing great! We just got back from a lovely vacation. It is hard to imagine how crushed, depressed, frustrated and defeated I felt 5 years ago, and look at me now! I will never forget, but instead of feeling so sorry for myself like I used to, I use my past experiences as motivators to keep on top of things in this ralationship.

Keep moving forward guys....even on the bad days....do try!

Luv ya'll, RMA
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/22/03 09:31 PM
Hi All,

RMA...

It's good to hear from you and I'm glad to hear that everything is going well in your life.

Your right... I need to get my life to settled down.

It has and unfortunately still is moving very much like a merry-go-round.

I'm slowly beating my way through all of it... and hopefully in the not to distant future, I will have it pretty well taken care of.

There has been a number of times that I questioned where I was situated in this current relationship... that's why I'm still taking it very slow and easy.

It's good to hear from you and Dave both... and it is always nice to hear of all the success stories.

I'm hoping some day in the not to distant future... I'll have one to tell as well.

Everyone have a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 10/25/03 05:13 AM
Hi ALL,

Looks like everyone is moving along in life... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks Wallace for the birthday wish <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> , you're correct it was earlier this month. I hope everything pans out between you and your gal. My only concern is if you both had time to heal from the beginning, meaning that, I think if I were truly respectful of my newly found potential mate would I be so rude to hang up on them? My concern for you is that here you are only dating and she's doing this now? Never think you can change anyone. What you see and get from the beginning will be there in the end....

I personally would think that if I were really ready for marriage (Her) I would ask myself " What did I learn from my first marriage of mistakes"? is hanging up on someone you love is how you express yourself? My concern is you may have learned, but what did she? She may end up being the taker....

Example - my exww hasn't learned anything about relationships regarding men other than manipulation, she'll pick up right where she left off with me because she didn't renew her mind in how to take care of a man regarding dating or marriage, the next guy will be highly frustrated because she has no desire to learn, her mentality for learning is based on what the guy will teach her according to his immoral behavior, fear and intimidation which I consider nothing but pure control, she states learning and reading books is foolish regarging relationship stuff ....Anyway enough rambling...

Avondale - Sorry to hear about your illness, just remember it's not forever...May God heal you with joy and give you a speedy recovery...You're walking through the Vally of the shadow of death but remember, you're walking through it, not living there....

Petvet - See you're still working things out with your GF kids what a challenge...keep it up

RMA - Glad to see you're still around giving that great advice...

Davepr - Glad to hear from you, I admire your courage to continue the journey with your W, I'd tell anybody I rather go through the pain of rebuilding than tearing down anyday....

Me: Well a few weeks ago I appealed the courts and of course they threw out my filing by error and accident ( as always court error) and closed the case, after that I decided I was done, In the mean time I found out they ended the CS 7 months earlier than expected due to an oversight they made from the start in 2002 so I'm done and will get the final papers in the mail next week...Exww is in for a surprise, they said exw can't reverse it either, there words for her "too bad" and she thinks they're for her?...As I said this whole court issue has been a circus, I can't believe she had me caught up in there mess for the past almost 2 years because of her affairs....More than anything what's sad is knowing in the whole court system and process they make many, many mistakes, I can count at least 8 major ones.....

All I can say this has been a spiritual battle and the miracle was always there trying to press through the whole time....

I have now entered into another phase of life, my finances are now freed...I owe some in arrears still but it's a very small pmt. As I said once the money dwindles from exw and she realizes she lost her power over me watch out! Anyway I can really move on now....My last battle now is (facing OM) next year at YD grad...How do you prepare for such a thing? I'm sure they'll be all over each other in my face....Who knows, once I see it maybe a door will close and I will start to heal greater, maybe im more detached than I think?...

YD was happy with b-day gift she was bouncing with great joy...OD is doing fine....


Take Care..........
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/27/03 11:39 AM
Hi all!

I apologized for not getting in here much sooner, but I tried to get in last week some time and apparently there was some work that was being done to system. O' Well!

Oh! EC, Happy belated Birthday.

MonteHall: Your situation reminds me of my struggles with exw when we were living under the same roof. DON'T MOVE OUT OF THE HOUSE IF YOU WANT CUSTODY OF YOUR KID. If you want custody of your child, fight for it. Don't let people discourage you into thinking that you don't have a chance for custody. Most men don't fight. Document everything about her actions, etc. Keep doing what you are doing. Be there for your son.

Avondale: I'm sorry to hear about your medical situation. I will pray for your recovery. I would not share anymore info with H than is necessary.

Wallace: RMA is right; you may want to thread very carefully with your GF. Things seem to be too up and down with you two. You know she may not be what you need. Think about it.

Me: Things are going OK with buddy and kid; however, things with exw are not going so well. She keeps putting her foot in her mouth. Same old same old!

Later.
Posted By: MONTEHALLL Re: Tough Love - 10/27/03 08:24 PM


<small>[ November 03, 2003, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: MONTEHALLL ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/27/03 09:09 PM
EC - Happy belated birthday! How did Wallace remember???!? I’m glad you are entering “another phase of life” which should be much happier for you. We know you certainly deserve it. What are you going to do with all the extra money now? LOL

Petvet -Are the “things with exw that aren’t going so well” affecting you? Hopefully they’re just affecting her. Are you still getting along with buddy’s daughter?

Monte - Reading your post, one thought kept coming to me and I’m sure it’s crazy...but I kept thinking “she’s acting like a pregnant woman”. Now, don’t laugh! Obviously there are similarities in the two situations (affairs and pregnancies) which are due to “emotional roller coasters”. If I were you, just hang in there until you absolutely CANNOT stand it any more. I think you have a lot more patience than you realize right now. It could be that all the good you’re doing in Plan A is causing her to waver more and more, hence the uncertainty of her actions about everything. And her going to the counselor is a great sign - made even better because she shared it with you.

Regarding your vacation...have you asked your wife at all to attend? Either she’ll go, and it would be a chance to continue to Plan A her, or she won’t go, and you can spend some quality time with your son. What do you have to lose? Is there any concern over her accusing you of kidnapping him if you’re in a separation mode?

Wallace - Hope you had a great weekend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/28/03 12:07 PM
Hi all!

MonteHall: Your w is acting very weird. She knows that she is not right. She is trying to play a role to make herself feel good inside but ir is not working. As far as asking w to go on vacation with you and kid, I guess you have to at this point. Play your cards and put the ball in her court.

Avondale: Well, exw showed out at a teacher/parent conference last week, and accused me of stabbing her in the back in front of teachers. I have not spoken to her since that meeting.

Later.
Posted By: MONTEHALLL Re: Tough Love - 10/28/03 02:21 PM


<small>[ November 03, 2003, 11:15 AM: Message edited by: MONTEHALLL ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/28/03 10:47 PM
Monte
OK, forget the pregnancy comment, it was just to point out that there are reasons for women being on emotional roller coasters. Another reason is drug influence (even doctor-prescribed) and/or alcohol. Without knowing your history and every single detail, it APPEARS that your wife is emotionally torn, and is coping with her feelings through alcohol when she wants to. Torn by regret for her affair? Or torn by wanting to get out of her marriage? Torn because she doesn’t like what she’s become? And the list goes on...

You are to be commended for realizing that talking with her while she’s in that condition would only lead to a fight, and for “doing the 180". Good for you!

Could it be that she is overmedicated? Double dose??? Have you asked her doctor about that?

Actually, despite the problems, I think there is a whole lot of hope in your situation, once your wife gets through her depression/ emotional problems. Which brings a whole other set of questions...
Is she willing to face any problems she has? Are you willing to support her through that? Maybe you should post something about this on the “General Questions” or “Emotional Needs” forum boards.

Do what you want about your vacation...but I can’t help but wonder what it says to your wife (and your son, for that matter) if you go without her. Would you even discuss it with her first?
Posted By: MONTEHALLL Re: Tough Love - 10/29/03 08:56 PM


<small>[ November 03, 2003, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: MONTEHALLL ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/31/03 10:27 PM
Hi All,

Just a quick drop in... I have been pretty busy.

I haven't had a chance to catch up on everything going on yet... but I will.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/03/03 08:56 PM
Monte - Did I miss something? Why are all your posts deleted from THIS thread? I hope you haven't been offended by anything posted, especially if I was the one who said it. Is it such that you would want us to delete the responses that we made to your posts?

Petvet, EC, Wallace - I have surgery tomorrow, and am a little apprehensive, having been in hospital previously only for 24 hours with each child's birth. I probably won't be online until the weekend at the earliest. Would appreciate prayers for quick recovery and no surprises for the doctors <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ November 03, 2003, 02:59 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/04/03 10:46 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I will be prayer for you. I hope everything goes well today.

MonteHall: How is everything going?

Wallace: What's up with you?

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/07/03 12:13 AM
Hi All,

It's been a pretty hectic last few weeks... and I'm not sure if it's slowing down or not... but we will see.

avondale...

I know your not able to read this... but my prayers are with you and I will pray for your speeedy recovery.

May God bless you and be with you always. I want to make sure my little sister is doing well.

Let us know as soon as you can how you are doing.

Petvet...

How is it going on your end? I'm still fighting issues that has my exW all over it.

You would think that after all of this time, I would be done with her... but no! She's like a haunting

I don't know what happened with Monte, but I think my exW is lurking in here. My YD asked me the other day why I wasn't posting in MB's anymore... and I told her, "I was... but I've been pretty busy".

The strange thing about it all, is how would my YD know if I was posting or not... I usually post when I'm at work and not at home.

Well anyway... I find it very strange to say the least.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/07/03 01:25 AM
Hi All,

Avondale - I hope you are doing alright, my prayers are with you.

Wallace - That's interesting your ex might be lurking here. I'm sure many do but they don't post. It's strange how they left in betrayal with OM/OW and is still searching for fulfillment.

<small>[ December 02, 2003, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: EverlastingCompassion ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/07/03 09:17 PM
Hi All,

Still saying prays for you avondale on a speedy recovery. God is watching over you, so your in good hands.

EC...

You know... it's ironic... but at my Church they were going through many of those same scriptures.

In fact, sometime ago, they said a study was done, and in this study they found that more Christian families, percentage wise... had more failures in their marriage due to adultery than non-Christians. Needless to say I found it quite surprising.

It wasn't until it happened to me... that I realized how we have reached epidemic proportions concerning divorce and adultery.

How are you making out EC?

Anything new going on?

Petvet...

How is everything going with you and your buddy.

Me...

Well if my exW is lurking... maybe she should take the time to read everyones stories. Maybe it might give her some insight of the type of pain a WWS is capable of dealing out.

Well everyone... I hope all of you have good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/11/03 04:04 PM
Hi all! Just checking in.

Avondale: How are you doing? I hope evrything is going well.

Wallace: I heard the same statistics about Christians and divorce. It make you wonder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It kinda funny. A couple of days ago, buddy and i were looking at the program "Cheaters" from our separate residences. It was so ironic that none of the people who got caught cheating had any remorse for what they had done. As a matter of fact, they appeared proud of what they had done. It is all about good and evil. Simple as that.

Me: I am doing great. I am thankful.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/11/03 04:12 PM
I'm back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ...not sure where MonteHall went to. My surgery went well, and I'm home recovering for next couple of weeks. This unfortunately has given me way too much time to think. (I already was pondering my life prior to surgery (hence the "how much do I tell hubby" and "should I change my will before surgery" questions.) So now I'm wondering just how long I can stay at peace being "in marital limbo". On one hand, I think I could last forever, but the other considerations are things not brought up in separation agreement, like the fact that our house and property is beginning to fall apart and devaluing itself as I watch. Do I pay for upgrading projects myself, or do I ask hubby? If I ask, will that spur him to divorce? ARRGH Also, I have found out that he is behind in making a payment to home equity loan (which is spelled out in our separation agreement as his responsibility). I've called him once, he still hasn't paid in almost 2 months now. It's getting a little bit more complicated here. I don't want to rock the separation boat, yet I can't let my financial reputation be ruined by him either. Anyway, just rambling around here. Hope y'all are well!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/11/03 11:48 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

I'm glad to hear that your back and I hope everything is going well for you considering what you just went through.

I hope my prayers helped you while you were going through your surgery.

Hopefully you will be doing back flips in a couple of weeks.

You bring up some pretty good questions with the house and all.

Is it in your seperation agreement that you split home expenses?

I would contact your attorney in regards to the past due House payments. That's something you don't want to let falll behind.

I would make the payments on your own to keep things current if you can, and have your attorney attempt to get the back payments from him, if you chose. It may cmplicate things... but certain things need to be taken care of... and that's not one area I would let go.

Glad to see your back and in good spirits.

Is your daughter with you now?

Take good care of yourself.

Petvet...

My G/F is down with the flu, and I am fighting back myself. So I stayed home Saturday night and I saw that movie palying... and I said to myself... I'm not going to watch it.

So what did I watch instead? A movie that itold myself I was not ever going to watch... but I went ahead and did anyway.

The movie is called "Unfaithful". I'm sure you have heard about it, as well as everyone else.

Well I watched it.. and it was quite amazing that my exW used a lot of the same stunts as the woman that was having the "A" did... imagine that.

Well it gave me some insight in how their minds work... they don't work... pure it's all about me attitude.

So that was my Movie watching experience for the week..LOL

Glad to hear that everything is going well for everyone.

I missed the Monte thing... so I don't have a clue what that was all about.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/12/03 01:50 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I'm glad you are back and doing well in your recovery. Take it easy and don't worry. I knew you were going to start thinking about your situation with your illness and everything. Like Wallace said, I would get loan payment up to date to save your credit and visit your attorney. I don't think your H intends on filing for divorce because he knows that he will get kill financially, so he intends to stay separated while he lives his separate life. Only you can put a stop to this once and for all. Take care of yourself. Don't rush your recovery.

Wallace: Yep! "unfaithful" had me wondering as well.

What happened to MonteHall?


Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/14/03 08:46 PM
Hey all,

avondale...

How are you doing?

I hope your recovery is going well.

When you get a chance let us know how your doing.

Petvet...

Yep! that movie I think put quite a bit into perspective. It's a one time watch for me. I may watch that movie "cheaters"", but I will have to really be bored with nothing to do before I do.

I don't know what happened to Monte. He was here, and the, "Poof" he was gone.

EC...

What are you up to?

I could use some of your words of wisdom... you always seem to come up with the right verse at about the right time.

Me...

G/F is beginning to feel better from the flu bug... so it's all good in that area... and I'm getting ready to wind down for the weekend.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/14/03 10:43 PM
Wallace - I really enjoy your weekly “Friday afternoon updates”. I know that if I don’t see a post from you on Friday afternoon, you must be sick or something!

How can y’all watch the “Unfaithful” movie?!?!? I cannot bring myself to rent it at all. You must be really strong to be able to do that!

Petvet - I’m glad you’re doing so well! What are your thanksgiving plans? Where will your son be?

EC - What’s going on in YOUR life? Any updates? Any news of a personal nature to share? LOL

Me - My recovery is going very well. I know it’s cuz of prayers (thanks!) and it didn’t hurt that I was in good physical shape - that gym time pays off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Hubby paid the past due bill, so I didn’t need to take any further action. Now I’m wondering how to handle the more expensive home improvements I want to do this winter and coming spring <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/17/03 03:04 AM
Hi Gang!!

Happy weekend (whatever that means <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Avondale - Glad you're back in action and recovering, God is faithful, he will do as he promised. For whatever reason I was awakened lastnight about 3:00am while awake I was led to pray for you? I hope whatever it was God came to your rescue.


Wallace - Hope all is going well with you and your Gal.

Ps 118
4 Let them now that fear the LORD say, that his mercy endureth for ever. 5 I called upon the LORD in distress: the LORD answered me, and set me in a large place. 6 The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me? 7 The LORD taketh my part with them that help me: therefore shall I see my desire upon them that hate me. 14 The LORD is my strength and song, and is become my salvation. 17 I shall not die, but live, and declare the works of the LORD.

Me: Exww called to discuss some business and of course the conversation flared on my part because of my hurt still. I decided ok that's it, me and this pain is going to have a knock down drag out, I'm tired of it. She apologized for the affairs but for some reason it felt more like sorry I got caught. She tells me she wants to talk one day soon about what happened in all 5 affairs so I can heal as she says and clear up all the phone calls, voicemails, dates, secret email, etc....

Then out of the blue she kept saying " see if we get back together how could she ever heal if I keep rehashing the same stories?? She said it would take her 8 years to heal from the things I've said since the DV...I said well what I said was true, take responsibility for your actions..

Now I was shocked!! Get back together??? Where did that come from?....She's still with her OM. After she said that I was like but do I want to really get back with her seeing what she is capable of? at this point I'd be a fool....

I told her those guys shouldn't have been in the picture in the first place while we were married in the same house unless I knew them or could have met them just to be aware of them...She laughed and thought I was wrong in what male friends she could have and be around....So that's a clue to me she still thinks nothing was wrong in what she did and it would only continue if we did get back together....Could you imagine going through all this again with her..all the affairs?...no way

That's why its best to never interfer with a WS before there time because you'll be messing with a cake undone...never bring them back to you in your own strength because you'll have a mess on your hands and get hurt and wounded all over again...Only when they repent and seperate themselves from there environment or other person should you try to work with them....

Since we are DV she would try to have me and a BF at the same time..I'm not walking that dog...

As I said before, once the money and legal attachment of CS is gone things would change because all her power is gone....

Anyway other than that life is great!!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/17/03 03:08 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I'm happy to hear that your recovery is going well. I am also glad that your H took care of his obligations. My Thanksgiving plans are spread out over several locales: one of which is at buddy's place. As far as I know, kid will be with me unless I hear something from the otherside to change those plans.

Wallace and EC: How are you guys doing?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/17/03 03:12 AM
Wow
Seems like three of us are online at the same time. Must be a slow Sunday night, LOL

EC - I've had trouble sleeping (mostly due to physical discomfort) and was tossing and turning about the time God brought me to your mind. Thanks for following through with prayer!

I'm not sure about my Thanksgiving plans yet - fortunately I have several options. Son will be home for a few days too, and will probably want to go to his dad's parents where all their family will be. I can't blame him but of course will feel a little bit left out. Oh well.

Petvet - Do you anticipate any problems with son going with you to Buddy's house? Will her daughter be there too?
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/18/03 01:56 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: Yes, buddy's daughter will be there and I don't anticipate any problems. Are you going to your inlaws place with your son? Will your H be there?

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/19/03 12:13 AM
Hi All.....


Petvet - Glad to see you check in when you can. Hope all is going better between you and your gal kids.

Me: Life is going on, I still have my good days(more) and some bad days every now and then...

Just found out my OD moved in with her BF, she asked me what I thought about it ( 2 months later now). I wondered why I would speak to YD and OD was never home always gone...Well it's there little secret society thing...

Well I didn't blast her but did let her know my take of it living in a non-convenant manner....It was kinda rough accepting her decision but, it's her decision......

Anyway life goes on....I'm sure YD will follow the same road....

Take Care....
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/19/03 03:44 AM
EC - I'm surprised at you!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway life goes on....I'm sure YD will follow the same road.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where is your faith? Your daughters are two different people and just because one does something, that doesn't mean the other will follow suit.

I think those of us who have experienced adultery in our marriage probably have to pray harder for our kids - they've seen perfect examples of bad behavior and selfishness but are not always wise enough to see their parent's behavior as sin and how wrong it is from a spiritual point of view. They see it as abandonment, and bringing unwanted change, but they don't usually tie into the spiritual aspect of the adulterous parent's relationship with God (or lack thereof).

I'm glad you didn't "blast her" but I know you're disappointed. She's still young and you will need to keep the communication doors open. I know you're grieving about this, but remember God isn't through with her yet. I guarantee there will come a time (maybe sooner, maybe later) when she'll want her daddy and you will need to be there for her.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 11/19/03 05:38 PM
Avondale -


I thank you for the encouragemnt, I haven't lost faith just discouraged in what I see happening. I'm disappointed exww played house in front of them with her boytoys. I say YD will follow suit because YD looks up to OD as her role model since there ages are so close and if they see leaving home as a way of escape to live with there BF's then thats what most likely will happen. I now understand more how Wallace felt. I don't know all the story why she moved, but she said she is doing great and paying her bills and still going to college but her grades dropped and was ineligible for her scholarship money but paid out of her own pocket for next semester.

I know she needs me in her life and she said she did, but she's still angry. The guy she's with is a nice boy. I remember right before the discovery of exww affairs I had a chance to sit down and talk to both of them about 16 at the time of what I expected during there relationship and where I stood on moving to fast and too serious..I was nice to both of them..I'm sure they remember that talk.

I remember after that talk after the guy left, OD blew up in anger and said I knew nothing about relationships and how things should go...

YD saw this at the time 14, in which I had to disable her internet privileges during that time because she was corresponding with older guys age about 25-30 in inoppropiate ways....

It didn't make since back then in 2000 why Exww resented my actions and verbally blasted me in front of both of them for trying to lead them to do whats right and empowered them into more rebellion of how wrong I was..I didn't know exww was having affairs at that time??

So as you see, here I am today now dealing with the effects the adultery has made on them...

I know God can change there heart, but for the past 4 years now, I've been labled as Mr bad cop that hasn't paid CS ever, when I overpaid...I have so much more to offer in life than CS, but that's where exww has focused there attention on " a check coming in the mail" as in welfare survival......That just burns me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

On the flip side, now that OD is out of the house, I have a better chance to restore our relationship. Now that she will get a taste of life on her own, my words may have more meaning..

Take Care.......
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/20/03 04:12 PM
Hi All,

You know something?

This use to be my favorite time of year... but now after everything has come to pass... it has come to be my least favorite time of year. To many triggers for me.

EC...

Thanks for the scripture... it is always appropriate for what is going on in my time in life.

I'm sorry to hear about your OD doing what she did. In my case... I ceased all communication with my OD because of it. I cannot associate myself with that type of a situation. I have not spoken to her for over seven months and counting... and until their situation changes I will not associate myself with it. I know that's hardcore... but that's how strongly I feel about it. Hopefully your OD as well as mine will eventually come to their senses and do that right thing.

Concerning your exW. By the sounds of what she is saying and the way she is still conducting herself... you have to ask yourself the question... "no matter how much I loved this person, nothing seems to have changed and why would I want to put myself through anything close to what I came out of.

If they truly repented for what they did, and made a concentrated effort to never follow that path again. Follow the lords word... and mean it... from the heart. I wouldn't even begin to consider ever gettiing back with someone that treated me the way our exW's did... but that's just me.

avondale...

I wouldn't recommend watching that movie "Unfaithful", unless you are really up to it mentally, because it will have you thinking about all the garbage the WS have probably done during their affairs. I wouldn't recommend watching it.

Glad to hear that your coming along with your recovery. Going into surgery being physically fit does help make no mistake about it.

Petvet...

It sounds like you and I have very similiar plans this Thanksgiving. My OS and YD are going over to my G/F house with me for Thanksgiving and all her kids and my kids are going to have dinner at her us with us. I don't know how you feel about getting everyone together on Thanksgiving as far as mixing of the families, but I'm not looking real forward to my little get together. Her kids and my Kids don't exactly jump for joy when they are all around each other. It ought to be good one!

Me...

About this time of year I seem to have a very frequent amount of dreams where my exW makes cameo apearances in them. I think it's because of the time of the year and the holiday season coming up.

Anyone else going through this?

Hope everyone has a great day!

Stay Strong!

Walace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/21/03 11:48 AM
Hi all!

EC: I can imagine how you feel about your OD's situation. She will learn the hard way.

Wallace: You may contunie havingtriggers concerning your exw for a couple of years. Have you heard anything from her lately? Be careful with the mixing of the kids, it's a very delicate situation when dealing with kids.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/21/03 09:21 PM
Hi All,

I'm winding down from a fairly busy work week... and I'm getting ready to enjoy my weekend.

Petvet...

I haven't spoke to my wife since the day she left... which is over a year and half and counting. In many ways, I don't think I would want it any other way.
There is nothing I really want to say to her.

I'm not looking to forward to this Thanksgiving get together with the mixing of my family with my G/F's family. We did this once before for my G/F's birthday, and it went O.K., nothing to write home about. So we will see how well it goes this time.

I'll let you all know.

How are you making out with your buddy?

Avondale and EC...

Hope you two are doing well, and avondale... I hope your getting better and stronger each and every day.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ November 21, 2003, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/24/03 12:47 PM
Hey Y’all,
I have a question for you. To recap: I had surgery, tumor was borderline (neither totally benign or totally malignant), it’s somewhat rare, there are no case studies done on this type of tumor, the long-term effects are not known, etc. I saw my doctor last week, and she said I should NOT be without health insurance, at least for the next 5 years, in case of recurrence. She knows the marital history and told me to do whatever I could to remain with same insurance carrier.

I am currently covered under hubby’s plan through his work. It is part of our separation agreement that "he pays my coverage as long as it is reasonable to do so". If he divorces me, then I would probably (?) have to get insurance elsewhere and this medical situation would be a “pre-existing condition”, making it very costly, if not impossible, to get coverage on it. I know that there is the COBRA thing but I imagine it has a time limit (but I’m not sure).

Could I continue to get coverage with current (hubby’s) insurer even if he divorces me? I wouldn’t be a dependant, so it seems unlikely. Have you ever heard of negotiating for health insurance coverage, either with the ex-spouse as part of divorce settlement, or with the insurance carrier itself? Is this crazy?

I would appreciate any ideas or insight y’all have. I might post it in the forum, too. I guess I could ask my lawyer but she charges $62.50 for 15 minutes of conversation, so I thought I’d get any background info here first. Thanks.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/24/03 05:50 PM
Hey everyone,

avondale...

I'm going to give you my opinion on this health insurance situation.

Your best bet of course is to reconcile or at least keep things as they are with you "H"... which I'm sure you already know.

IMHO... I do believe that under Cobra... as long as you continue to make the payments they have to continue coverage for up to 18 months.

You can negotiate your insurance coverages under your current situation should your "H" file for divorce. Now, whether you get it... it will all depend on what you both agree on as a final stettlement, and if the Judge feels it's fair... he will probably sign off on it.

With what you have going on right now... I would do everything in my power to hold onto that Insurance. I would make it my #1 priority over everything else. Medical care for any duration can finiancially devestate you, without Health Insurance.

Hope everyone has a great day today!

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ November 24, 2003, 11:55 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/24/03 05:54 PM
double post... haven't done that in awhile. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ November 24, 2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/26/03 12:36 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: Your doctor is right. If your husband files for divorce, I would try to get insurance coverage in settlement with H paying for it. I would throw myself on the mercy of the court. Since H left you, you may be able to get it. I cannot believe your attorney is charging you $67.50 for 15 minutes. I get leery about attorneys who charge alarcarte for everything including copies, stamps, paperclips, etc. She better be very good.

Wallace: I hope your Thanksgiving goes well.

Happy Thansgiving everyone!

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/02/03 11:22 PM
Hey Y'all, How was your Thanksgiving? Eat too much??? lol

If I couldn't have my traditional FAMILY event, I would have to say mine was actually very good. I was with long-time friends who I am in the same Bible study group with. My son came and minded his manners - I was so proud of him - his manners were PERFECT (at 24 yrs, it's about time!). Now if only I can get him dis-involved with this extremist political group (a.k.a. cult) he's in, that would be perfect <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I spoke to my lawyer about health insurance. Yes, she's worth the money she charges, I'm sure, as there are some unusual circumstances in our marriage finances due to H's job that she has experience with. She told me that the "COBRA" health plan kicks in if I had to get off H's plan (due to divorce). It would cost a little more, and would only be in effect for 3 years, then I'd have to find another carrier. Since I don't want D anyway, I guess I could conceivably continue as we are, covered by the same insurance company. I would need to have 5 years of no-reoccurance to be considered off the hook. Thanks for your input about it!

So now I have to stress out about Christmas! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/03/03 04:09 AM
Hi all! I hope everyone had a great holiday.

Avondale: Please don't get stress out over Christmas. Just take care of yourself. I'm glad you were around friends for Thanksgiving.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/05/03 10:50 PM
I have a feeling that ol' Wallace must have a case of the FLU since he hasn't been heard from all week. Usually he posts a week-long wrap up on Fridays, and it's not here.
Wallace, I hope you feel better soon! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 12/07/03 01:20 AM
Hello --- it's been quite a while. It's really good to come back here & reconize some "cyber faces"

Here's a quick update of what has gone on in my life -
I filed for legal separation on the 2nd and part of me feels at peace and the other part feels like I just want to throw up. It's not something that I wanted but I didn't want to continue to live this way anymore.

WH had been reaching out and taking steps forward but the pull of the evil one is greater in his life right now. It's so hard to watch someone you love basically self destruct. But I didn't cause it, I can't control it and I can't cure it. Only God can if WH asks for such help.

We did an intervention (for drugs and alcohol)the Monday after Thanksgiving. It was very clear he was in total denial and even blamed me for the problems! Have we heard that one before on these boards! He continued to live with OW2 the whole time and still adamently denies it. He is really angry at me right now. He doesn't know that he will be served yet. Let the fun begin. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

In some ways I am relived and other ways I am hurting really bad and very sad. It was probably bad timeing to do this right before the Holidays but I couldn't imagine going through Christmas with things like they were. I have been second guessing myself which is futile I know, yet hard not to do.

Through recovery programs like alanon, I have some wonderful support. I was always the one who was in control and could "do it myself" .....well this time I am reaching out to people and accepting help and hugs and prayers, etc.

The really good thing that I did for myself this year is to join a sailing team. It was wonderful because I loved being out on the water, we have a great crew and one race a woman had to skipper the boat & I was the one chosen !!! I learned that day how to do it !!!! We are off for Nov and DEc then start the winter season in Jan - Feb. It keeps me sane!

Blessings,

D. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/10/03 01:24 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: You are right. Wallace has not posted lately. He may just be busy. How are you doing? How is your health?

WGTT: It is good to hear from you. The holidays are the worst time to be going through family problems. As a matter of fact, relationships that are having problems are usually further stressed during the holidays. At some point, you had to get some control over your life. One cannot go through life just floating in the air and intend on getting anywhere. You appear to be headed in the right direction.

Me: I am doing GREAT.Kid is doing OK. Buddy and I are SMOKING.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/10/03 05:13 PM
Hi All,

Avondale was right... I was down with the flu, and I am now just getting back on my feet. It dropped me and droppded me a good one.

I have been busy at work... so time is limited.

Good to hear from you WGTT, hang in there. There is really not a good time to go through what your going through.

Petvet... did you know that smoking is bad for your health. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/11/03 06:09 AM
WGTT - It is great to hear from you! I"m sorry things are playing out the way they are. I know you've been on a roller-coaster for a while now. At one time I had your email addy but when I looked a few months ago, I couldn't find it. I totally understand your inner conflicts (I think everyone here does!). And of course, separation doesn't HAVE to mean imminent divorce. We'll stick with you no matter what <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace - did your lady friend bring you chicken soup this time, or did she shy away like she did last winter when you were sick? LOL I'm glad you're better in time to enjoy the holidays.

Petvet - OK, I give up.... What were you and Buddy smoking??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> (Sorry, couldn't resist!)

EC - Do you have any special plans for the holidays? I think I remember that you are kind of near some family (or extended family)...is that right?

Me - I almost gave in to the "Holiday Depression demon" last week. I was not going to do any decorating, no tree, etc. up until about 5 minutes before son-in-law came over to help me get Xmas stuff out of attic. Part of the reason was due to not being physically able to going upstairs, deciding on what to use, and lugging down stuff, and partly due to depression, to be honest. But SIL came over, I chose, and ended up getting a tree, albeit the smallest one I've ever seen (cut live tree, 18" tall, LOL). One of the reasons I decided to go ahead was because I remember a post from someone last season to "not let the WS have the victory over the BS holiday" by doing nothing! And I really didn't want to think about having a Christmas when I did NOT put up the special ornaments that the kids made when they were little. Now THAT would make me depressed. So at least the downstairs is decorated, even though it's low key. I won and didn't give in! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/11/03 12:08 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: I hope your health is getting better. I hear that Colorado has sort of a flu epidemic on its hands. I think I heard nine kids from your state have died. Be careful and take care of yourself.

Avondale: I'm glad you did not let the Depression demon get the best of you.

Me: Smoking! I am enhaling the smoke of love. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/11/03 10:48 PM
ARRGH <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
I have had what is probably one of the worst separation days since H left ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I pick up the paper and start reading local "what to do in this town for the next week" entertainment section. Notice the name of someone that H plays with....read the article (front page of this section)...notice location is college where H teaches....read who is performing in this group along with Hubby....it's the OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> who has come all the way from the west coast. I had a emotional breakdown right there at the breakfast table! How dare H bring this woman here where we live? Where his kids live? Where his parents live? I cannot decide if I should call his mom just to see if she knows (she may not - they may not discuss his gigs but I know she reads the paper for his name) or should I just call him tomorrow and remind him he's still married?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Maybe I should hire people to sit in the audience and throw tomatoes at them all?? ARRGH <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/15/03 12:41 AM
Update - I did cool down, just took me a few hours! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I talked to mother-in-law, she had seen article and recognized OW name and was upset, we cried on the phone together. I called my daughter so she’d hear it from me in case she accidently saw her dad & OW together, or heard it from someone else. She was indignant too. So after sleeping on it, and having a brief chat with my pastor - who reminded me that there is no one in hubby’s life right now to speak Biblical Truth or remind him he’s still married - I called hubby. First I made sure he wasn’t there, so I could leave a message. It was neutrally cordial and went something like this: “Hi, this is your wife, <my name>. Just wanted to say I saw the article, concert sounds interesting, I wonder who else (like your parents/daughter) read it and made the connection with the other performers’ names. Anyway, just wanted to remind you that while you have company this weekend, that we’re still married. Bye”.

It would be great if OW was with him when he played the answering machine, LOL. I can only hope it rattled his performace (both musically and ah,...personally <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) And you know how careful I’ve been in my actions and words to not promote or provoke him into divorce. But I am at peace with what I did, and if it does expedite D, it will be by his action and not mine.

<small>[ December 14, 2003, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/16/03 01:30 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: How cocky can your H get? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Come on Avondale, enough is enough. You know Buddy and I were discussing my marriage to ex. She said some really harsh reality things to me because she said that I gave ex the license to treat me the way she did; for example, when ex tried to leave the first time around five years ago, I pleaded with her to stay. Buddy said I made a huge mistake because once someone makes up their mind to leave without any remorse, the marriage is damaged and there is no coming back. As you can see, two-three years later, she leaves anyway. The point I am trying to make is you have to decide how much you are willing to let someone have control over you. Sometimes, people treat us the way we allow them to treat us. Your H does not care about your feelings which is obvious by his actions. For him to come to your home town and perform with OW, is very bold. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> He does not think he is married anymore except on paper. He has his cake and is eating it too. Getting up the hill or hump, is very painful, but you will get over that hill and continue living and get on with your life.

Gone.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/16/03 03:27 PM
Hi All,

Didn't get a chance to chime in on Friday like I usually do. I've been running behind on just about everything since I was down with the flu bug. I think Colorado was ground zero for the flu bug epidemic, but don't quote me on that.

Needless to say... my G/F did not come over to feed me chicken soup. As a matter of fact I haven't seen her in over a week, and she is really upset about it.

She is upset with me, she is upset with herself, and she pretty much admitted that she is in a Holiday depression. Which in turn is making me feel depressed as well. I am definately not into the Holidays this year.

My kids and I, put up the Christmas tree this weekend, and for me... it just brought back bad memories that I would rather not have triggered.

In addition my G/F is going on about getting married this coming September and going on about buying a new house and what are we going to do with all the animals that both of us have, and how she doesn't want any animals in our new house... and I'm over thinking to myself... sheeeesh, what is this all about and why are we discussing this right now.

I told her, "hey! Why don't we just concentrate on gettin through the Holidays, and have it be an enjoyable time"?

Anyway... she is still going on about the animals... and I'm thinking to myself... is this someone I want to get married to?

Anyway, avondale... I think Petvet brought up a very valid point. The WS will act, and do things only if suits themselves. They don't consider, nor do they care whose feeling may be at stake. As long as it satisfies them... nothing else matters.

You eventually have to ask yourself, how much are you willing to put up with?

Petvet...

You know... "where there is smoke, there is fire"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

So, that being the case... when is the big day? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Glad to hear that everything is going well for you. It's probably a nice change of pace.

Everyone have a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ December 16, 2003, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/17/03 01:16 PM
Petvet - Everything you said is true. I totally agree! But I am still going to wait, and I think I can last a while longer. He doesn't control me except when stuff like that article happens - which is not very often. Besides, I really think I'm doing what God has given me grace to do at this point. I know that sounds weird, but on the whole, I am at peace where I'm at with this separation. If that changes, y'all will be the first to know

Wallace - I was very disheartened to read your post. The part about your g/f and the tree is almost VERBATIM what you posted last winter when you had the flu, and last Christmas. Tell me something, are you afraid (not scared, but what I mean is anxious, or fearing regret) of NOT being with someone? I mean, I know life is a lot more fun (or should be) when you have someone to pal around with. But if she's not going to take the bad (flu) with the good (dinner date with you) my concern for you is still there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> And one last question - WHERE IN THE WORLD DID SHE GET THE SEPTEMBER DATE FROM?!?!?!? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
You need to give me enough notice to get a cheap plane ticket for the wedding, LOL

<small>[ December 17, 2003, 07:19 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/19/03 11:07 PM
Hi All!

Well the weekend is almost here and it has been very busy at work as well trying to get everything done by Christmas... but I'm going to try to take it easy tonight.

avondale...

Your right! It is almost exactly the same as it was last year, as well as when I went down with the flu.

Oh my eyes are very wide open as this thing progresses. It's amazing what a year of dating can do for you, as far as getting to know somebody.

Let's put it this way... red flags are flying and have been flying all over the place.

I'm in the process of doing a complete re-evaluation concerning this whole relationship that I have going with my G/F as we speak.

To try to answer your questions.

I am very comfortable with not being with someone, as I have found since my D, that I get along quite nicely... with or without another woman in my life.

I have found for me that being in a relationship at this point is like a double edged sword. The relationship can and does slip from good to bad, and visa-versa. I have found, that I am not very tolerant of a relationship that seems to be slipping, for whatever reason. I don't feel that I have the capacity to really put a lot of work into a relationship at this point. It's not that I'm doing anything wrong... beside not getting married right away and being with her 24/7. But I'm not going to start doing hand stands in order to make someone happy. I've been there and I have done just exactly that... and it got me nothing but more heartache and heart break.

In summary... I'm not into it! I thought maybe I was... but I'm finding out, that I'm not. My G/F can accept this fact, or she is going to have to look elsewhere. I know that probably sounds cold, but unfortunately, that's how I feel about the whole thing.

As far as the September wedding date... I have no idea where she came up with that month. As a matter of fact, there has not been any day set in that month, and if she doesn't do a very dramatic turn around, to break my attitude about this whole thing... there probably will not be any date, as I will probably break it off with her before we even get close to that time.

As far as the holidays are concerned, for the past 2 years, they have been major triggers for me... and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I wish I could change it... but, I can't at this point in time.

Well I hope everyone has a great weekend, and doesn't have too much X-mas shopping left...LOL

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ December 19, 2003, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/21/03 02:17 AM
Hi all!

Not much happening on my end. Got my shopping done for YD/OD and mailed gifts. This time of year sparks all kinds of feelings. For whatever reason I feel less enthused this year than ever. I look at Wallace and wonder if having a partner is the answer yet for me yet, wow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ?? At this point in my life I can't imagine being in any relationship. I currently see women as theives, I feel some will sell your skin if they can skin you alive <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> however not true, there are some great women out there, but thats just where I'm at <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

This board is a good outlet, and it keeps you in reality.

I can't believe I'm going on 3 years on my own. Eventhough I've been alone I still haven't lived the single life, still trying to heal, but almost there. I have no desire to argue with exw any more or rehash what she did. Through progression the bleeding wound became a scab, now becoming a scar. Sometimes exww will strike it but I only feel a throbing pain for a short time.

To date, I wonder how exww relationship has survived since 2001? seeing it started out on a lie....I look at Wallace how a good relationship has issues forming and Wallace has good skills but it appears my exww has defied all logic...is she really happier without me? Was I really her problem? How are you at peace with yourself?

Anyway I'm just rambling, I thought by now everything would have collaspe between them and come apart by now since they have no relationship principles or foundation to build on.....


See ya later!!

<small>[ December 22, 2003, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: EverlastingCompassion ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/23/03 01:22 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: I was not trying to hit you below the belt with my comments, but I just wanted you to have your eyes open about the situation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Wallace: If your relationship with G/F is not gelling, you may have to cut the rope. If your relationship takes you through too many changes and drama, you may have to cut the rope. Your g/f appears to be putting on a acting job to get you to marry her, but her real self is showing bexause she is getting impatient. Be careful.

Me: I'm doing great.

Everyone, have a good Christmas and New Year if we do not chat before then.


Gone.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/23/03 01:27 PM
Oh yea!

EC: Stop it, stop it, stop it! You have to look to the future and stop looking back. Count your blessings and get out of the pits. Get out and try to enjoy yourself; if that involves a female, good, if not, hey, enjoy things on your own. Please get enpowered.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/24/03 10:16 AM
Petvet, EC, Wallace, WGTT , and any others who are reading this:
I hope you all have a great Christmas, and that 2004 will bring tons of blessings to us all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks for being here with your advice and letting me vent. Y'all are in my thoughts a lot. I really appreciate you guys so much!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/25/03 06:28 AM
Hi All,

Petvet - I'm not trying to look back, it's just that time of the year when d-day all happened, so this time of the year triggers certain emotions, but i'm ok. I am moving forward and looking toward 2004 with excitement.

Avondale thanks for the cheer of looking toward 2004.We all will be further than ever next year.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/24/03 08:16 PM
Hey everyone,

Wanted to chime in and wish everyone a Merry X-mas, amd a Happy Holiday.

I'm still at work... and I'm in the middle of trying to have my boss let everyone go home early and enjoy the Holiday... so far it's not working. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

EC...

I understand what your saying completely... as I have gone through a number of emotions as well, and this time of year is not helping, at all.

Hopefully time will heal all the wounds and scars that we carry... but at this juncture, for me... it hasn't happened yet.

It's as Petvet stated... count your blessings and keep moving forward in a postive direction.

Have a very "Merry Chrismas all"!

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ December 24, 2003, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/29/03 12:10 PM
Hi all! I hope everyone had a good Christmas. My Christmas was great.

EC & Wallace: I understand what you guys are saying. I just hate to see you guys suffer emotionally during the holidays.

Avondale: I'm glad we could be of help to you during your trials this year. I hope 2004 will resolve many of your issues.

Gone.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/30/03 11:27 PM
Hi All,

Well I made it!

I hope everyone had a good Holiday!

All of my kids and I were together for X-mas dinner as well as my G/F and all of her kids. It was a very enjoyable Christmas... but I'm glad it's over with.

For the last several months I have been battling the IRS over my exW under reporting on her income.

The day after Christmas and many months of haggling with the IRS, they sent me a letter relieving me of the taxes due on her income. I filed for "Relief", under the injured spouse relief area that they have allowed many people to do... "thank the lord". So that was a nice Christmas present, because we were talking thousands.

Well I hope everyone has a wonderful "New Year"!

Let's pray for better things and better times to come.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/31/03 01:26 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: I'm glad you had a good Christmas. Also, I am happy to hear that you given spouse relief for your taxes. I am going through the same thing, so your case offers hope.

Everyone: Have a happy New Year.

Gone.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/31/03 08:55 PM
Hi everyone!
Wallace - that is great about you getting the IRS “relief” letter! I realize this means YOU don’t owe certain things - does it also mean your exwife DOES owe more? Your Christmas dinner report was good too. Did your oldest daughter attend with her b/f? How did you top the leather jacket gift you gave your g/f last year? LOL

Petvet - I didn’t realize that you also were doing the same IRS “relief” situation. I hope things go well for you, too. What are your New Year’s Eve plans? Gonna be smokin’ again? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

EC - How were your holidays? I hope you got past those triggers OK. Do you have any resolutions for 2004? (Knowing you, I bet you do!)


I have a friend who may also could benefit from that IRS “relief” information. I’m a little ahead of her timetable as far as separation, but we used to work together. Could one of y’all tell me what it’s called so I can do some research for her?
Posted By: Chris -CA123 Re: Tough Love - 12/31/03 08:59 PM
GLad to hear about the IRS stuff. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I was wondering what ever happened with that.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 12/31/03 10:11 PM
Hi Gang..........


Hope everyone is doing ok?

Wallace - Look like you had a house full? Just think it all could be permenant <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet - Sounds like you're plowing right through life, glad to see you making progress.

Avondale - This year I'm keeping my resolutions to a min. I have many things I want to do, but sometimes if you try to do too much then you do nothing, making unrealistic expectations, so off I start tomorrow.

One thing I started back in Nov since I finally feel the argument part of it all is leaving and I said 'Enough is Enough". I no longer feel the need to accuse exww of what all happened eventhough it's all true. It still hurts, but I'm practicing leaving it the past. I just want to badly heal and move on. My YD told me the other day regarding OM " Dad you have nothing to worry about, me and OD really don't talk to OM and besides whats there to talk to him about? When we see him we say hi and hope he minds his own business". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Anyway OD is starting talk now and said she wants to spend Christmas with me in 2004.

YD is starting to call more often and plans to come June 2004. This time she says buy the ticket, she's coming.

So things are turning around slowly and 2004 will be a great year the start and finish.

Avondale here's the IRS link to some of the info. I'm sure the others could give you more insight.



Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/05/04 01:01 PM
Hi all! Happy New Year!

Avondale: Spousal Relief is the name of the IRS program. It is a lengthy process.

EC: Things seem to be off to a good start for you. I hope the good things continue.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/05/04 09:19 PM
Hi All!

Well I hope everyone had a good New Years Eve!

Myself and my girlfriend just went out for dinner and then watched some movies at my house... it was very low key, but enjoyable.

EC...

I'm glad to see you made it through the Holidays.

For some reason, at least for me anyway... it is the toughest time of the year for me. This past Holiday was tougher for me than the year before. I don't get it, you would think it would get easier, but so far it hasn't.

It's good to see your daughters opening up to you and communicating more... I know that means a lot to you.

Petvet...

You sound like your rolling right along, and everything is going pretty good for you. I hope you get the relief your looking for through the IRS. It it quite a bit of work, but compared to what it was going to cost me... it was work worth doing... and for all intents and purposes... it looks like it's pretty well over. My exW has 30 days to appeal the decision... but that is not likely... since she was the one who lied and under reported on the tax return.

avondale...

Did you have a good New Year's Eve?

Any word from your "H" at this point?

To answer your question about the IRS liability that it is still due and owing plus interest since 2001... but not by me. That liability now falls directly on my exW paying it off.

I look at it like this... when you play with fire... your going to get burned.

I just realized that I forgot to answer your question about my G/F's Christmas present. I don't know if I topped it from last year... but I bought
her a new computer system which she really needed.
She does a lot of her work from home, and her home computer was really lacking... so I got her a new one.

MY OD was at the Christmas dinner with her boyfriend, so we had quite a gathering of family that night, which we all very much enjoyed.


Chris...

Hey Chris... how are you doing?

Finally after what seemed an endless battle with the IRS... justice finally prevailed. Without that Injured Spouse Relief being put into place with the IRS, I would of had a very hard time not being responsible for my exW under reporting her income.

I glad it's pretty well over.

Well, I hope everyone got started off right with the New Year... I know it's going to be a whirlwind of a year if my G/F gets her way. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ January 05, 2004, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/06/04 12:24 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: I glad you had a good New Year and holiday season with your family and GF. Yes, I will be glad when a decision is handed down on the taxes.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/06/04 12:50 PM
EC - thanks for the link; I’ve passed it on to my friend. How are you doing? Weren’t you taking classes? It’s great that your daughters are communicating and that they wish to visit this summer. I hope they follow through with that.

Petvet - Wow, two posts in two days from you. A new record for you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Do you have a “due date” about your tax situation, or is it just “whenever” it comes to the top of the pile on someone’s desk?

Wallace - I think a computer DOES top a leather jacket, LOL. It’s says something like “an investment in a future”, not like a personal gift which would just end at that - a gift given. Wonder if that's how she'll interpret it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />


WGTT - If you are still lurking here, let us know how things are going with you. I know it was rough making your decision right before the holidays.

Me - Nothing new here....I did ask H if he wanted to help pay for some maintenance things here at the house (painting kitchen cabinets $500 and fixing attic insulation $150) and he said he didn’t have a lot of money right now, which I'm sure is true. He offered to help with the insulation cost, though. I took pictures of the cabinets and am going ahead with getting it done. The wood was showing through in several places and it looked bad. If you paint one, you have to do them all so they’ll match. I won’t live in a pigsty that looks trashy, ya know?

<small>[ January 06, 2004, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/06/04 10:12 PM
WOO HOO
Y'all are gonna be sooo proud of me today! I went to the funeral of a friend's father....a friend who is a musician; both he and his father and brother have played in various gigs with my H over the last 25 years. I wondered if I'd see H there, and I knew I'd see some of our mutual friends (who are more his friends than mine). I went with two staff pastors (I'm the church administrator and the deceased's son goes to our church).

The only place left to sit when we got there was the row in front of my husband! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I haven't seen him since May, and cannot believe how totally different he looks. Very grubby, and guess what?? HE'S GAINED WEIGHT!!! Now I don't feel as bad after gaining a few inches from my surgery, LOL. I handled seeing him fine and it made me feel so much better, KNOWING without a doubt that I'm in a much better place in so many ways than he is. And I alternate between praying for him and standing for our marriage and feeling "yuck" I can't believe I'm married to someone who looks and acts like that. Oh well... what I thought would be awkward and scarey actually was affirming to me personally <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ January 06, 2004, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/08/04 11:35 PM
Hi All,

My computer at home is down and out with a bad fan, so I won't have my new fan for it until this weekend. That only leaves me with what little time I have had lately to come in and check the forum from work.

avondale...

WOW!!! I have to give you credit... you stood tall, by going to the service and seeing your "H" at the services. Did you expect to see him there? Did you speak to each other face to face at all?

I'll give you credit... it appears that you made it through the whole thing quite well. In fact, it seems to have bolstered your spirits.

I'll bet it felt strange after not seeing him for so long.

I know I would of felt really wierd seeing my exW. I haven't seen or spoken to her in almost 2 years.

Again congrats... I think you just crossed a major hurtle.

Concerning the gift I got my G/F... She was very happy with the new computer system. I really wanted to get hersomething more personal, but under the circumstances, I felt this may be the best gift to give her, because of all the trouble she was having with her old system.

I look at it like this... there is always Valentine's day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ January 08, 2004, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/13/04 07:48 PM
Hi All,

Well I got my computer fan finally put in... so now I am back up and running.

It appears this year is starting out with a bang.

Last week I got a notice that my exW is contesting the CS amount that she has to pay per month ( we had to garnish her pay check and it's only been for the last 3 months), so it looks like I have to go to court for that one.

EC... or anyone else with knowledge on this... if you mmight give me an idea as to what to expect, it would be appreciated.

Then I get another notice from the IRS stating that my OD claimed herself for the whole year of 2002 while she was still under legal Age and a dependent in my house. So know I have to deal with that.

Then the other day... I slipped on some ice, and broke my thumb and jerked up my back.

So It looks like this is going to be a great year... LOL.

I'm only 13 days into this year, and I've got this all going on, as well as the Doctor wants me to go in for an EKG for my heart.

This stuff works you... I'm falling apart right before my very eyes.

I won't even go into my G/F and her plans.

Hope everyones year and day is going better.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/13/04 10:53 PM
Wallace - all I can say is “WOW”. Sorry to hear about your exW contesting things. I hope it is easily solved. I know it would be great if you didn’t have to go to court about it. What are her chances of getting the amount changed? Are you satisfied with your lawyer and the way he/she has handled things so far?

How do you deal with your OD filing taxes incorrectly? I am sure it was because she wanted a refund and she figured that was the best way to do it. Maybe she didn’t realize the ramifications to you if she did so. Will you make her file an amended return? Tough Love?

And now you’ve broken your thumb - we’re lucky you were able to type out that post! And an EKG - have you had any symptoms? And you’re NOT falling apart, you’re growing old and we’re all in the same boat, LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

So what’s g/f up to now? Making plans, eh??

EC, Petvet - y’all around? Everything OK?

Edited to add:
Just got an email from H...this is what it says:
How do you feel about getting together sometime in the next few weeks to talk about the "future". We have been apart now for one and 1/2 years; I think it is only prudent for us to talk; to see where we are both headed; and to try to remain friends. It was awkward for me to write this; but I think it is a good idea for us to talk. What do you think?
Let me know whenever - no hurry.

I think I know what he wants to talk about <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/14/04 12:22 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: I'm sorry to hear about your thumb and the CS, and tax issues. It seems as though you are getting off to a busy and eventful 2004. You may want to see whether you can get your OD to file an amended returm for last year. As far as you exw is concern, just tell the judge what your situation was and is, and that your exw needs to do her share. Make sure you have an attorney who will fight for you.

Avondale: I find it interesting that he wants to remain friends. If he wants a divorce, take him to the cleaners. You must be firm.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/15/04 11:34 PM
Hi All,

Sorry I didn't get back sooner... but it's been a whirlwind for me, and I'm trying to stay ahead of the game.

avondale...

That's very interesting that he had to remind you how long it's been since you and he had a real face to face talk. I didn't like the tone... it has bad news written all over it. Brace yourself because I have the same feeling you have. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Say a long prayer and meet with him... let him say whatever he has to say, and let the chips fall where they may. You have done your best, and have stood tall, and have waited. Hopefully it won't be what we are all thinking it will be.

You are in my prayers.

Petvet...

You seem to be the only one that is getting a good start for the 2004 year at the moment. Tell me your secret so I can follow in your footsteps. It appears that I could use some good advice.

If it keeps going like it's going... I may turn my life story into a screeplay for a movie. It could be a dark comedy... LOL.

Me...

I have talked to my attorney, and he told me not to worry... just fill all the paper work out and send it in(Yep! More paperwork). He told me to go to the Court hearing if in fact the Family Registry wants to proceed with a hearing and then ask for continuance, and then bring him in. He's a good attorney and I pay him good money, so I know I'm in good hands there. It just seems like this thing is never, ever going to end.

Concerning my OD, I told her she needs to amend her tax return with a 1040X, and send it in. She said she would, but my gut feel tells me she will just let it lay there, causing me even more grief.

I am still waiting to get my full tax refund from the IRS from the 2002 year, and between my exW and now my OD, who knows if I ever will see that refund, or probably this years as well.

My OD stated that she didn't claim herself. I told her that the IRS said you did, and right now I'm inclined to believe the IRS. This almost has shades of my exW behind this.

I hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/16/04 08:05 PM
Wallace - I'm sure there will be an end to your paperwork SOMEDAY ! And my gut tells me you're right about your OD not filing an amended return any time soon, if at all. Sorry you're having to go through that. It's good that you are confident in your attorney.

Me - I emailed H back, and told him I could meet at the last week in Jan, on two specific days. He replied something to the effect of February would be fine. So I'm just going to go with whatever he wants. I thought I'd stress over it until we meet, but so far I'm very peaceful about anticipating it. I'm sure this is God's peace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC, Petvet - Hope y'all have a good weekend. Anything new?
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/17/04 02:11 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: Yea, I would brace myself. If he says what we think he will, stay your ground.

Wallace: I agree with you that your OD is still in her mom's corner. Watch your back! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Me: I am very proactive now. I have a lot of things to do, time to make up, etc. I'm not fooling around.

Gone.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/19/04 10:02 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a good weekend.

avondale...

I'm sure the peace you are feeling is from the Lord.

He comforted me, and directed me through what I call the "Very Bad Times". I would not have made it as far as I did with out having him in my corner. Let us know what day your going to meet, so we can all say a prayer for you on that day.

Hopefully it won't be what we think it is.

Petvet...

Your last post sounded like your going full throttle and making up for lost time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You still need to give me the secret to how your starting out the New Year so well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Me...

Well OD called me this past Saturday, and said she wanted to get together with me to fill out all the tax forms to revise her 2002 taxes. We decided to get together after I returned from Church, which she agreed to.

When Church had finished, I called her and asked her what time she wanted to get together... and she said about 5:00 p.m.. I told her that would be fine, that I would see her around Five.

Well five oclock came and went, and I called her house at six, and left a message on her voice mail, because she wasn't home. About 6:30 she called me back, and said that her and her B/F were going to do it, and if they had any problems with it, then she would call me up. In my mind... that tells me she isn't going to do anything, with it... and yes Petvet... you are correct... she is in her mother's corner, and I am watching my back, because if I don't watch my back... I'll be in real trouble.

Hope everyone has a nice day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ January 19, 2004, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/19/04 10:03 PM
Hi all,

Wallace - With your exww asking for a CS modificaton is not a big deal as far as court procedure. The hard part about it all is the lying that goes on, thats more frustrating than anything, enough to bite a bear in half <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Anyway since you have a lawyer it will go better for you than with me, my exww tried to take me to the cleaners. The lawyers no the law and whats allowable and will protect you. Also since the age of your YD and all the skipping your exww did will play a role. But also remember its a female geared system. It's rare you see a woman paying child support, so they may lean more toward your exww's favor, unless they know what happened.

I know it will be weird to see your exww and talk to her but, I tell you a truth, you're not missing much, if anything it may shut a door of curiosity.......Recently my exww told me she was free to date while we were married because, reason " I left". Now she was the one who moved out in her own place and had 5 guys at the time and is currently still with one? This is what I mean, you're not missing anything because they're not sorry for what they did, they lie and try to justify themselves. It was after that conversation that the Lord delivered me from ever arguing with her again, it's a waste of time and pain.

Anyway the CS is a constant sting to her, I don't care what the amount is, until you come at peace with it.

Avondale - Oh boy, conversation time with H coming up? That will be interesting. Just be nice and confident in yourself, don't be fearful of what he say he might do regarding money, etc...It all pans out, money will come and go, but he has the biggest issue he'll have to carry for life until he repents...Adultery is constant gnaw and gnashing of teeth...


Petvet - Looks like you're just buzzing along in life, I don't know what we're going to do with you? You seem to be recover quickly... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Me: Well spoke to YD this weekend and found out she signed up for the " Marines" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . So I've been happy for her but concerened as any parent would, but she's coming to spend the summer with me before she goes and plans to try and be stationed close as possible to me at the start, I'm sure she'll go overseas later...

Other than that life is moving along, will be done with CS in May <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...

One thing I realized recently as it came alive to me was that John the Baptist was axed dead because he told Herod " It's not right for you to have the wife of your brother Phillip"....The Wayward wife Herodias didn't like that one bit,she was furious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> John speaking out about there affair, she said I'll show him and had Herod seduced by her daughter in a dance...I'm sure it was the same kind of perverted dance you see in some of these artist today that have there belly and lots of skin exposed...anyway John was axed but considered great also....

Courage to stand up for what is right will always agiate those in the wrong. Your presence shines a constant light on there darkness, even when you don't know it.

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/19/04 10:18 PM
Hi EC...

I hope you read this while your still on the boards.

When you went in for your CS hearing... did they treat it like they do the Divorce proceeding, or do they just pretty much go by how much each other makes.

The reason why I ask this... is because I know she is going to lie about how much she makes.

She is now an Apartment MGR; with her and her new "H", and I know that they get their apartment as part of their compensation.

Let me know, when you can.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ January 19, 2004, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/20/04 04:49 PM
Hey Wallace, sorry I missed you yesterday....

The process is suppose to go simple, but because of the lies that may arise it twist and turns into other things.

The filing of forms will be just like in the DV. You should be required to submit new financial affidavits because they want to know why the change is being requested whether you are making more or less now or child expenses have increased, its like starting new. Arrearage amounts don't change, just ongoing support amounts.

Just remember she has a plan, and a nasty one. Don't think she is going to be nice and give you a break...When money is involved it brings out the worst in people....Remember the affair in the first place was because she had some inward bitterness toward you, and in most cases its still there..........

The key is to present the facts. You will have access to her financial affidavit and she to yours, once filed, before the court date, therefore you or your attorney will see what she's trying to claim or get out of.......

So get some strength because it's draining going through it....The part of having to speak with them while they lie....

Anyway hopes this helps.....
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/21/04 06:48 AM
Hi All,

Well we got things really rolling between myexW and now with my OD... so this is going to be a great year... I can feel it in my bones.

EC...

Thanks for the heads up on all of that. When I tlaked with my Attorney, he stated that they needed a specific reason to file for a review of the CS. Right now, no one knows what it is.

I was wondering if they could go back and revise the arrearages that she has concerning the CS, but It looks like she can't... so that's a relief.

I not looking forward to the fact that I have to see her. It's been almost 2 yrs since I have seen or spoken with her, and I thought that I just might get past ever having to see her again... but I guess not.

Thanks for the info EC.

Hope everyone is doing well today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/21/04 12:30 PM
Hi all!

EC: So your YD is going into the Marines, WOW! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Well, at least she is trying to do good, but it would worry me as a father. You know the war and everything. I would not exactly say that I have recovered, but I have had alot of time to think doing those times of separation about how I want to live my life. Now, I have a chance to pursue life without all the drama.

Wallace: I would find out how much the apartments are worth that your exw manages, so that you can use that in your calculations. She will probably try to skew the figures on her financials. Your OD and her BF don't appear to be on your side, do they?

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/22/04 08:15 PM
Hi All,

EC...

Just curious... what was your daughter's deciding factor to join the Marines? I know a number of people that are in the Marines, and some that just joined up. They are all good people, and they love the Marines, and the War doesn't even concern them... in fact all of them want to get into the thick of it. Some of them are stationed in a number of places that are really seeing some action right now. God bless them all!

It also looks like your going to get to see your daughter here in the not to distant future... I'll bet that pleases you a bunch.

I have to agree with your post that this CS issue is going to be ugly... I'm not looking forward to any of it. I thought after almost 3 years of being in the thick of it all... that I would finally get a chance to put it all behind me, and start out somewhat fresh... but I guess not.

Petvet...

I'm glad to hear that all is going well for you. You deserve to have things go well... you put up with quite a bit for so long.

Keep up the good work!

Concerning my OD, and her B/F. They know that I have never approved of their living arrangement... and I still don't. Unfortunately, my OD has some of the same type of traits as my exW has. I can love her... but I won't love some of the things she does.

She still contends that she never filed her taxes claiming herself. Well I talked with the legal department over at the IRS the other day. They said that since she was a student for most of that year and living in my house the whole time... she couldn't legally claim herself even had I not claimed her. So the ball is in my OD's court now. Hopefully she will get it straigtened out soon.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/22/04 10:34 PM
Hi Y’all
I’ve been keeping up, just haven’t had a lot to say. I’ll let you know when my meeting with Hubby is. Probably around Valentine's Day, LOL.

EC - How old is your YD? I kind of thought she was under 18, and not old enough to sign up without a parent’s permission. (?) Maybe I’m mistaken about the rules. We all certainly understand your concern. But on the flip side, she will learn a lot of good habits that will last her a lifetime. And as in every walk of life, there can be good influences and bad. You’ll just need to pray that she will be surrounded by the good ones. As for overseas, don’t worry too much about it at this point, no use borrowing trouble. And I know you are counting the months (less than 6 now!) and then you can stop CS.

Wallace - Is it possible that for some reason your wife isn’t listed as an “employee” of the apartment company, just her H, and therefore she wants more CS because she’s unemployed? I’m sure you’ve thought of every scenario, though... And why do you HAVE to go to the hearing? Could your lawyer do it for you if you wanted?

Petvet - I would have thought you’d be extra busy now due to tax season and your rapidly expanding social calendar! It’s good to see you still online here! So have you and your buddy talked about anything permanent?? Come on, you can tell us... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Y’all have a good weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ January 22, 2004, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/23/04 04:53 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

You think you and your "H" are going to have your meeting on Valentine's Day? Ouch!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

If he has bad news for you, do you think he would be that heartless to break that type of news on Valentine's day? On the other hand... maybe he has good news for you, and wants to break it to you on Valentine's day. That would be a surprise, but if the news was that good... why would he want to wait till whenever? He doesn't seem to be in to big of a hurry to talk to you about whatever he has to say, which IMHO is not a good sign.

I have a question for everyone.

I bought my G/F roses and took her out for a nice dinner last Valentine's Day. Anyone have any ideas as to what I might do this year? I'm kind of at a loss for ideas this year, so I thought I would get some ideas from everyone here.

Petvet...

avondale brought up a good question... has there been any serious talk on that front.... hmmmmmm? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Me...

My OD called me yesterday afternoon to inform me that she was going to take her taxes in to be done and she was going to have them do the amended return for her all at the same time. So hopefully she will follow through with what she keeps saying she is going to do. If she does that, it will be one less thing to contened with.

Concerning having to show up for the CS hearing. I will have to show up for the first one... because I'm going to ask for an extension, and then bring my attorney on board to represent me. He is already working on everything, and he is up to speed with all of this. But I have not formally anounced that I'm being represented by an attorney to the Courts as of yet. This is a tactic called foot dragging... and time is my friend concerning this whole CS situation.

Well I hope everyone has a great day and a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/23/04 09:30 PM
Wallace
I said Valentine's Day for our talk in a "tongue in cheek" way, based on the fact he signed papers for separation on our 26th anniversary date. I have no clue when/what he's planning, by all appearances it will be working out initial division of property stuff.

Valentine's Day ideas...hmmm...Victoria's Secret is always a winner, but maybe it should wait til after the wedding??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Seriously though, you can never go wrong with flowers and dinner at a nice restaurant. Remember, if you do something big, you'll have to top it next year, and every year after that. Keep it simple for now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 01/23/04 09:45 PM
Hi ALL

Wallace - To answer your question, what were YD's deciding factors why she joined the Marines?

1. I think she is bored at home and lost hope of getting a scholarship for college, she's a (B-) student. She recently lost an after school temp job in the nursing field so I think she got discouraged for the future, because wants to be in the medical field...a baby doctor...

2. She's tired of living with exww, they argue a lot and have been getting nose to nose, toe to toe in brawls..YD wants her own space to do her own thing.

3. In her own words, "she said she's tired of cleaning up after OM". She's asking herself why is she cleaning up after this stranger in her house, forced on her by exww.

When YD first told me she signed up It was like horror at first, but then the more I thought and prayed about it, it's a blessing. If YD lived with me she would prosper, if YD continue living with exww, she would have great pitfalls ahead and amount to very little. So since YD wants to be stationed near me at the beginning of her serve time is great. Its amazing how the military thing skipped over a whole generation in my family, but all things work together for the good.


Avondale - YD turned 18 in Oct so she's old enough....but as you say, she will get a lot of displine and other great tools in life....


Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/26/04 05:42 PM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a good weekend. For me they go by so fast. There is never enough time to get in, everything you want to do.

avondale...

I took your statement about meeting for Valentine's Day literally. Only because of the Graemlin at the end. Hopefully you don't meet on that day to discuss that type of a situation.

Do you have an attorney? The reason why I ask, is because I know numerous people who walked into things like property division etc, with the best of intentions to have a fair and equitable split, and when it was all said and done with... they had nothing but problems on their hands.

IMHO, I wouldn't discuss anything along those lines with him without an attorney representing you... and there is still no guarantees even then.

Thanks for the heads up on Valentines day. Your right... every year you have to top the year before. I'll keep it simple still.... dinner and flowers.

EC...

I can understand your YD doing what she did. It's too bad she didn't call you up and discuss it with you first though.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/27/04 02:33 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: I surely hope that your meeting is not around Valentine's. At the meeting, I would not agree to anything including property or anything else without consulting with your attorney. I would just listen. The reason why I say that is your H may tape your conversation without you knowing it and try to use it against you. Based on what he says, then you can discuss things with your attorney. DO NOT GIVE HIM A CHEAP WAY OUT. If he wants out, he has to pay the piper.

EC: Your YD may have made a good decision. Certainly, staying around her mom is not setting a good example for her. As a father, I know you are concern about the unknown. If she wants to go in the medical field, make sure that the recruiters don't try to direct her into a area that she cannot develop a career after she leaves the military. Try to help her out.

Wallace: Yeah! You may want to keep Valentine's simple. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Stay away from the jewelry stores with her.

Me: Yes, buddy and i have discuss the M word, but I am not going there anytime soon.I am trying to make up for lost time. I don't need anyone tripping me up or getting in my way at this point. After it's all said and done, I may just go it alone with my kid. I don't believe in being a perpetual boyfriend with someone for 5...10..15...20 years like some folks do. I am either going to marry her at some point, or I am going to cut her loose. Besides, I just started completing my annulment papers yesterday, so M is certainly on the back burner. Before, I get married again, I want to be content where I am by myself.

And I'm gone.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/28/04 01:49 PM
I got an email last night from my H. It appears the meeting he wanted wasn't (necessarily) to work out details of a divorce. Basically he is saying the reason he wants to get together is to "possibly renegotiate" the household support that he gives me. Says the recession has hit him hard, he hasn't had anywhere near the playing gigs he had been having when he left almost 2 yrs ago. Thing is, I know all this is true - he's not playing as much, and has (for whatever reason) distanced himself from some of the bands/groups that did regular gigs like receptions, parties, etc. and is pursuing a style of music that isn't in demand.

I'm not sure what to do...I know technically I could be mean and say "no". It would seem that once it's decreased, that may play a factor upon divorce settlement too (not to my favor). And the thing is, I don't know how to say what I really want to say, which is "You make lifestyle choices (quitting bands because you want to pursue OTHER music styles //calling OW long distance // flying to visit OW, etc) and I shouldn't be the one to pay the price". But that seems so mean...It isn't all about money here, for me. So I'm inclined to say "decrease it a little" because I know I'm getting a very good amount considering I have no kids at home. Any thoughts? Keep in mind, I'm not out to skewer him, I want to show a LITTLE mercy, and this may be an opportunity for us to have some positive interaction.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/28/04 07:01 PM
Hi All,

Not much new on my end for the moment... which is a good thing!

avondale...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"You make lifestyle choices (quitting bands because you want to pursue OTHER music styles //calling OW long distance // flying to visit OW, etc) and I shouldn't be the one to pay the price". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have to agree with that exact statement. On the other hand, I understand your feelings about not wanting to skewer him.

I think you need to make an evaluation on what you can or cannot afford to live on, and make your decision based on that.

I have to take off... I am at work and I have a busy day going.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ January 30, 2004, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/29/04 04:33 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: I would talk to an attorney first before agreeing on anything. Where is all this headed? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/30/04 10:52 PM
Just getting rid of a double post

<small>[ February 03, 2004, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/30/04 10:58 PM
Hi All,

Got plenty to do this weekeend. Finalize the CS issue's and submit them to the Family Support Registry so they can forward it to the Courts I assume... plus a bunch more.

I'm on the down hill slide at work now, and I'm going to try to enjoy my weekend.

avondale...

I know you don't want to stir the pot up... but I wouldn't discuss anything about property division, etc., without your attorney present. It's bad business.

Petvet brought up a good point. Where is this headed in your opinion? You've been in the thick of things for quite awhile, and it just seems to have stagnated to the point where nothing good is coming out of it, and it doesn't seem to be escalating at this point to head into a full blown "D".

What's your opinion on this?

Hope everyone has a very good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/03/04 02:00 PM
Hi all!

Just checking in. Trying to make plans for Valentine's.

Wallace: Keep plugging ahead with the CS issue and don't stress yourself out.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/03/04 09:52 PM
Wallace - In response to your question, I’m not sure where this thing is headed. All I know is that I will not be responsible for initiating divorce (at this point in time). I will not rule it out in the future, but right now I have that “peace that passes all understanding” to stay in limbo. However, I will also not be taken advantage of during this time, either. So I’m staying alert on all fronts.

Hubby called and we will get together to talk about “the future” next Monday afternoon. My lawyer has indicated that the support I’m getting is more than fair so I will probably elect to decrease it - in order to continue my health insurance coverage that I need because of the previous cancer diagnosis. I do have some “wiggle room” financially, without going into my personal savings too much. And I feel that this is the right thing to do ethically & morally. I’m just going to listen to what he says, and then think about it before I take any action. I’ll keep y’all posted as to what happens.

Petvet - What are your Valentine’s plans?? Come on, spill the beans!

EC - What’s new with you? Are you still in school?
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/03/04 10:53 PM
Hi All,

My weekend was not a very good one. It seems that my G/F's oldest son who moved back in with her are not getting along very well. Unforunately, her OS, does things the way he wants to do them with no regard to anyone else living in her house. He's been working her pretty good from what I've heard... and it's starting to really upset her. I am trying to stay out of it, but I think she wants me to get involved, which at this stage I don't feel it's the wise thing to do... so she was upset with me this whole weekend. Anyway... I'm sitting back and observing at this point.

Do you think I should get involved in their family disagreements, or should I just let them work themselves out between the two of them. At this point she hasn't asked me to step in... but I can tell she is disappointed that I haven't stepped in and said something to him. She see's how my kids are at home, and she wants the same type of atmosphere that I have at my house in hers.

What do you think I should do?

Petvet...

Have you decided what your going to do for Valentine's day? Don't keep it a secret... let us know what the secret is... LOL.

I submitted my CS papers to the Courts... so all I can do at this point is wait. Time is on my side, concerning this issue. Hopefully I won't have to go to Court... but I don't see myself getting off that easy. It would sure be nice though, I really don't want to see my exW.

avondale...

I think your taking the right approach concerning your upcoming meeting with your "H". You are doing the right thing, and you always have concerning all that has transpired. Keep doing what your doing... and put the rest in God's hands, and let Him continue to lead you through this.

EC...

Anymore news on your YD, and her joining the Marines?

Hope everyone has a good day today, and a better day tomorrow.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/04/04 01:00 AM
Wallace,
My personal opinion is that you should STAY OUT <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> of your g/f business with her son. I think it is unrealistic for her to expect you to exert any authority over him at all, now or even in the future. He's old enough to live on his own, and to be honest, even his natural father would not have a lot of influence over him. I think your g/f is just at such a loss as to how to handle him, she's not thinking realistically (hmmm...familiar, huh?). She will continue to get upset, just as she does when making imminent wedding plans and you're not in agreement with that. (I’m not saying that to put her down, because we all know she’s wonderful cuz she’s picked you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> but just to point out that it’s not the most realistic approach.)

Is there another relative of his like a grandparent, uncle, etc. who might reach him? I'm sure there are issues that he has, divorced parents notwithstanding, that will make it difficult to talk any sense in him at this point. She could always do the Tough Love thing on him and see how that works <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But based on my own experience, it may be something he has to learn on his own. She can choose to put up with it, or not. That’s where the Tough Love comes in.

I'm no expert on stepchildren (or pre-stepchildren, LOL) but my gut feeling is that when the kids are almost adults there is no reason they should be expected to think of the "new" parent with a lot of authority. Respect, definitely...but not authority like they would with their own parent. You know how the role of parents evolve as the kids get older; that's what I mean.

<small>[ February 03, 2004, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/04/04 07:29 PM
Thanks for your opinion on this one avondale.

I was thinking the same thing as what you posted. I just wanted to see if I was the only one thinking the same way... LOL

Here is the real hitch, and I'm not sure if it's going to present itself as a problem down the road or not. We talked about when we get married... purchasing a house that is big enough to accomodate all the kids that are currently living with us now. She knows that I'm watching very carefully what is transpiring, and she also knows I'm not real keen on the way he OS has been acting. In fact I told her... if he continues the way he has been going... I don't want him moving in with us to our new home. I wouldn't let my kids get away with what he is doing and the way he is acting, and I see nothing but problems coming from it, unless he straightens his act out. I'm even willing to put our marriage plans on hold, until she gets a handle on it (which she doesn't want to do).

Well I hope you and everyone else has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/09/04 09:12 PM
Hi y'all
Just an update here...hubby emailed over weekend, and he and I are getting together at his request to talk about "the future" tomorrow (Tuesday) evening. I can't believe that I agreed to dinner at a local restaurant, but at the time it seemed preferable to having him here in the house.

After looking at financial records, it is obvious that household support from him needs to be decreased somewhat. (He has been overpaying by accident <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ) But I also want to ask him about what his plans are and need to figure out how to do that without introducing "divorce" at this time.

Please keep me in your thoughts/prayers Tuesday, 5:30-8:00 pm, E.S.T. I really want a good presence of mind when we talk. Thanks guys!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/09/04 09:30 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

Good idea having your meeting with your "H" in a public place.

You should dress to the "Nines", and definitely have your mind focused during the meeting.

Say a good long prayer... and go into your meeting with confidence and self worth just beaming all over the place.

My prayers will be with you... good luck and may God Bless.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/10/04 12:53 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: As I said before, do what you think is best for your situation and comfort zone. You seem to have things under control.

Wallace: Yes, I would recommend just staying on the sidelines observing. You may give an opinion on the G/F OS issue, but I would not get involve handson. You have no power in with stepkids unless they let you. Besides, you guys are not married yet. If I were you, I would surely be taking notes because if you get married and allow the loss cannon to move into a house with the rest of you without resolving his issues, you are talking TROUBLE. I am quite sure you don't need anymore drama in your life. I would see how things play out. Also, look at your G/F to see how see handles things. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Me: I plan a VERY romantic evening with the buddy. Dinner, wine, flowers etc. Off the charts type of things. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/10/04 01:02 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: Oh, I forgot that you meeting is this evening. Sweetheart, you should dress to kill! You should convay the attitude that you are doing just fine thank you. In a figure of speech, dress so good that he wants to "jump your bones". Let him think that he is missing something. I'm not trying to talk too dirty, but you get my message. I'm not trying to be disrespectful. Good Luck! Don't choke up and keep your head up and look him in the eyes.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/11/04 11:29 AM
Meeting report:
Things went well because:
1) I looked great (IMHO) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
2) I didn't cry
3) I covered all topics I had on my list
4) I was able to say "I want our marriage to be restored."
5) I didn't choke on or spill any food
6) I was also able to say "You know my heart well enough to realize I would never file for divorce"
7) I was able to make a point about several financial matters, which at least should be considered during division of property
8) Hubby appears to be (and has never given me impression of the opposite) trying to not "hang me" financially
9) He understands about my health insurance concerns
10) I was able to look him in the eye and have confidence

Bad points about meeting :
1) He definitely wants to divorce within 6-9 months
2) He swears he did not leave me for OW but confirms their relationship is physical
3) I did tear up (but they didn't spill over) when talking about health insurance situation

Unusual things
1) He has considered bankruptcy
2) He went to doctor last week for racing pulse/heart. May have been anxiety attack
3) I could tell he was kind of nervous, and I wasn't
4) His TIAA-CREF is worth a heckuva lot more than I realized
5) He is ABD (All But Dissertation) so has very little left to do in order to complete his PhD.
6) He wants to meet monthly to work out the divorce plan (is this unusual?)

Petvet , thanks for the advice, I was already there but had done what you suggested, appearance-wise.
Wallace , thanks for the prayers! I know that I have not lost the "peace that passes all understanding" which has been with me since the onset of my situation.

<small>[ February 11, 2004, 05:38 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/11/04 11:17 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

Well you made it through your meeting... and that's a good thing. I'll give you my 2 cents worth on it.

I'm going to go off your meeting report and add my comments to it if you don't mind

Meeting report:
Things went well because:
1) I looked great (IMHO)- I'll bet you looked like a million bucks... good for you!
2) I didn't cry - That's a good sign... it shows him that you didn't come to the dinner meeting and act needy. You may have surprised him with that one.
3) I covered all topics I had on my list - Good! So he knows what is and isn't expected I assume?
4) I was able to say "I want our marriage to be restored." - What did he think of that statement? Did he have any comment to you after you stated that?
5) I didn't choke on or spill any food - LOL... That's very good news... I couldn't think of a most inopportune time to have something like that happen.
6) I was also able to say "You know my heart well enough to realize I would never file for divorce" - did he ask you why you hadn't file for "D"?
7) I was able to make a point about several financial matters, which at least should be considered during division of property - I would stick with those points and let your attorney haggle through the rest of it.
8) Hubby appears to be (and has never given me impression of the opposite) trying to not "hang me" financially - That's good to hear... many try to do just that... so that's a plus.
9) He understands about my health insurance concerns - That's a plus... is he going to continue your coverage.
10) I was able to look him in the eye and have confidence - What did he think of that?

Bad points about meeting :
1) He definitely wants to divorce within 6-9 months - Did he give you a reason why?
2) He swears he did not leave me for OW but confirms their relationship is physical - What reason did he give... if any?
3) I did tear up (but they didn't spill over) when talking about health insurance situation - It's to be expected... condsidering everything that you have been going through... I wouldn't let that concern you.

Unusual things
1) He has considered bankruptcy - Be very careful with this one. Make sure you cover your bases on this one. If you don't you could end up paying on things that you never even dreamed existed. If he files Bankruptcy, make sure your Attorney protects you on this. In fact you should be gearing up for the financial aspect of all of this as I write this.
2) He went to doctor last week for racing pulse/heart. May have been anxiety attack - I wonder why? After all... he has made quite a few life changes, as well as decisions. Did he say when all this started?
3) I could tell he was kind of nervous, and I wasn't - I would be nervous as well... if I did what he is doing. Good for you avondale... I'm glad you were able to maintain throughout all of this.
4) His TIAA-CREF is worth a heckuva lot more than I realized - If it's a Community property State... the you could be enitiled to half of it.
5) He is ABD (All But Dissertation) so has very little left to do in order to complete his PhD. - So I assume he is still going to school to finish?
6) He wants to meet monthly to work out the divorce plan (is this unusual?)- I would let your Attorney do all the communicating concerning that matter. It's not unusual to do... but sometimes it can be an unwise and unfair thing to do. I have seen a number of people try to save money by going through most of it, and coming up with what they felt was a fair settlement, and then find that they left a number of things out. Sometimes these ommissions can come back and bite you. Let your attorney handle it... that's why they get paid the big money... to make sure their Client gets the best deal they can.

avondale... I'm sorry to hear that your "H", in fact does want to get a "D". It didn't come as an unexpected surprise to me, and I'm sure you were not surprised either.

Start gearing up... and make sure you make decisions that are in your best interest. Time to start thinking about you... and the direction you want your life to take at this point... just in case he in fact does want to follow through with the "D".

I said prayers for you during those times, and I will continue.

When one door closes... another one opens up. God is with you, and he knows your pain. He will be there to comfort you during this time.

Keep your chin up, and your head held high. You will make it through this... and when it's all said and done with... no matter what direction it takes... you will be that much stronger.

You are in my prayers avondale.

Petvet...

I think you and I are doing almost the same thing for Valentine's Day... LOL! Maybe some of your magic will rub off on me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Concerning my G/F, and her OS. I have not gotten involved in their little tiff whatsoever. I am however taking notes.

It's snowing and cold here, and I need a warm place to hang out at until Spring! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope your day is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 11, 2004, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/12/04 11:53 PM
Wallace ,
Thank you so much for your kind comments and insight! Hubby didn’t really have a comeback after I said the things about “restoring our marriage”. I only stated that "I wouldn’t be the one to file for divorce" to re-establish that I took the vows we made before God seriously, and any action to dissolve the marriage would have to come from him. He’s going to check w/HR where he works to see what the insurance situation is. He wasn’t able to really look me in the eye - obviously because he knows what he’s done is WRONG. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

His timeline of 6-9 months is based on the fact that it will take that long to work out the financial issues, etc. This timeline is fine with me. I won’t have to make any snap decisions. I don’t think he WILL file for backruptcy, but he said he looked into it (he has too many investments to be allowed to do that, they far outweigh his debts). He is very willing planning on giving me half of the assets he acquired while we were married.

I still like the fact we’ll meet several more times to go over points about the house, property, assets, etc. It allows me time to think about what’s going on and not feel cornered into giving a response immediately. I will DEFINITELY have my lawyer look things over before I agree, verbally or written, on anything. She has all the info from our very first meeting.

Now my next big decision will be “sell the house together, OR for me to buy out his share, OR buy his share and then sell at some future point”. I’ll have to draw up a list of pluses and minuses to help me decide, along with some wisdom of CPAs and a few others.

Petvet - I hope you have an “Off the charts type” of Valentine’s Day with your “buddy”. Has she given you any hints about a ring? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> How did y’all meet, anyway?

EC - Where are you? I have missed your posts lately. Busy with school? Any Valentine’s Day plans? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You guys have enough fun for me on Valentine’s Day, since I’ll be by myself...again, LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 02/14/04 12:10 AM
Hi all,


Wallace - Looks like you're causing a blaze in the snow with all those gifts for your GF <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm sure if you keep that up you'll bring summer in fast. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> YD is set to go to Marines. I told her to inform me before she signs anymore papers because as always they promise you the world at the beginning but the new solders don't realize they belong to uncle sam for 4 years, yet its not a bad thing, I just don't want her to go straight from boot camp to Iraq.

Avondale - Nothing new is happening. I'm not going to school this semester, I think I'll go this fall. As far as valentines day, I'm going to just hang out somewhere and have fun by myself. I like how you handled yourself with your hubby. Sounds like he's really confused. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> One thing I can tell you is that he is now in a stage when reality sets in and the OW has revealed herself by now, he sees himself, full of shame. He may have appeared to have it altogether but he's just like all other Ws's, his world is crashing down around him. Eventhough he may be considering bankruptcy, I'm sure thats a big blow to OW, because thats not attractive at all, and it's something he may be hiding from her.

As Wallace said protect yourself if he files. I know you are looking for a restore, but don't put your life on hold and set and do nothing. It's not going to happen according to your plan. You don't need all the debt to collapse on you and he walks away free just because you want to be nice to him. It's sad but you have to treat them as a thief. That's where I failed at and was stolen from several times because I left myself open, thinking in that trust mentality that we were still married. Letting go and moving on is not giving up, its preparing yourself for better days ahead. Don't get stuck behind where the Ws is at, because they're lost and wandering....


Take Care.........
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/14/04 12:36 AM
Hi All,

Work has been real busy for me, and by the end of the day... I'm shot. I just wanted to let everyone know why I haven't been able to post very much, or for very long.

They did another round of layoffs again where I work, and I'm still going. I had to take on three others people's work load... no raise, nothing... just more work.

When this economy turns around... I look for a lot of people to tell the Company their working for goodbye.

EC...

I think you summed it right up for avondale. You always did have a way with words. It takes me forever to get my point across. All of you have me beat 10 ways from Sunday on that one.

It is a good idea to watch what your YD signs concerning joining the armed forces. She wants to get the best that they have to offer... not just a tour of Iraq.

What else is going on... you have been quiet for awhile... keep us posted on things as they progress.

avondale...

I wanted to say that I hope you have a very special Valentine's Day. You are in my thoughts and my prayers and I'm glad to see you taking the stance that you have taken. Just don't get caught up in your husbands nonsense. Ec, stated some real good advice there. Protect yourself... Emotionally, and Financially.

The gloves are off now... it's his move... let him make it, but be prepared for whatever he is going to throw at you.

Petvet...

Well, I'm going to a play tonight with my G/F, and it's dinner and roses for my Valentine from there tomorrow. So that's what I have planned.

Now... tell me your secret. LOL!

I hope everyone has a very Happy Valentines Day... and for anyone who could care less about it... don't worry... it's not that big of a deal (at least in my mind) LOL!

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/14/04 12:52 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: Sounds like you did great at the meeting. I figured he was going to drop the bomb on you, and he did. Well, sweety, it's time for you to cover your rear. I would not meet with him monthly to discuss D issues, let your attorney do that. Make sure you protect yourself financially. As EC have said, he may be in financial trouble, and hiding it from the slut. He is in a mess. Be strong! For Valentine, go have a nice dinner and one nice glass of wine, and salute your probable new life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wallace: Yes, tommorrow is the day. Love is in the air, and I intend on being Romeo. I am looking forward to it. Please, Wallace, you cannot keep up with me. I am on fireeeeeeeee! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

EC: Enjoy Valentine pal! Yes, please make sure your YD does not sign her life away. Yes, the service does promise the world.

And I am gone!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/17/04 02:05 PM
Hi all!

I hope everyone had a nice Valentine's Day.

Avondale: How are you doing? What did you do for V day?

Wallace and EC: What about you guys?

Me: I had a wonderful time. I was not too please with the restaurant though. There is something for paying top dollar for a slab of meat on top of a couple of steamed vegatables. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Oh! Avondale: No rings or proposal. Yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/18/04 12:36 PM
Hi Y'all,
Just checking in, not much news here. I'm glad Petvet and Wallace had hot Valentine's Day dates. As for me, I did the same as EC did, just by myself. I did treat myself to some tiramisu (Italian dessert, for any who are culinary challenged) which was very yummy.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/19/04 02:26 AM
Hi All,

Sorry for getting back to all of you late... but I have been real busy at work... plus my computer is acting up a little... but I think I got that taken care of.

My Valentine's Day went well. Nice dinner and company... and the play we went to was hilarious.

So all in all it went very well.

It's my Birthday this Sunday... so I have to get geared up for it next... LOL!

I am glad to hear that everyone survived Valentine's Day.

Well at the moment my CS is not being challenged.

My exW in her typical fashion stirs up the pot and gets everyone going... but she is too lazy to submit her paper work into the Courts. So it's all on hold now... for how long I'm not sure.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/26/04 03:20 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: How are you feeling? For some reason, I get the feeling that you may be down emotionally? I hope I am wrong.

Wallace: I'm glad you had a good Valentine's Day. I hope your birthday is even better.

Me: I am doing OK.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/26/04 01:09 PM
Wallace - Hope you had a great birthday <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Will you be 29 again, or is that just a girl thing? LOL

Petvet - Thanks for asking, but I'm doing fine. Nothing much going on here, so that's why I haven't posted much.

EC - Do you live anywhere near that family who is missing? I think they're in MO too.

Me - Haven't heard from H since our meeting, other than an email asking if I would be responsible for paying a home equity bill (he will increase my support to cover it). He admits he forgets to pay it, and thinks it would be better for me to take it over since it is mailed to the house, anyway. I said OK. And the only other thing I'm having to consider is where to live...I love my house but it's getting old, appliances getting old, etc. Should I sell before divorce witih him, or buy his share and then sell? I don't want H to know where I might be moving to (upscale = might figure into how willing he is to settle financially, even though I'd pay for my house from inheritance). Any thoughts?
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/26/04 01:10 PM
double post....dont' think I've EVER done that before! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ February 26, 2004, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/27/04 02:37 AM
Hi All,

avondale...

LOL... I had a great birthday... and I wish I was 29 again knowing what I know now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> The sad part is... I'm really 38 yrs. old and holding... LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Concerning your house... I would get a fair market appraisal on it. Tell the possible listing agent everything that's wrong with the house... and let them give you an estimate on what they think they can sell it for. I would then take that and buy your "H" out, at that point.

When I went into my "D", I used all that info... and I am happy to say, from that stand point... it all went very well. I didn't have to give her any additional money... because she already had made off with over $300,000.00 worth.

I would just like to say to you avondale, that I am so sorry to hear that your "H" has finally decided to evidently take the route that he has chosen. You have stood for your marriage, and the Lord will look upon you with a smile. Why we have to endure this type of pain is beyond me... but evidently this must be the path that God has chosen for us. I don't understand why we... like so many, were chosen to endure such a path. It's a path that I wish none of us ever had to take.

For me... it is like a never ending haunting that I wish would end. But for whatever reason it doesn't ever end.

Petvet...

I'm ready to hear your secret's on how your holding up as well as you are.

EC...

Have you or anyone else seen the movie the "Passion of Christ"? I heard that it's an excellent movie... and I would like to get other peoples thoughts on it, before I go and see it.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/04/04 11:39 AM
Guys
I have this sense of forboding...that this thread is going to fade out because y'all are moving on with your lives. But I can't stop posting (yet)- what if I need your advice for something? I don't want to have to re-tell my story to all the new people at MB!

I've been posting here almost two years now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> and have learned so much from you all. Your comments have been realistic and encouraging. Both Wallace and Petvet have previously said they were ready to leave, and I think were staying at my request. Is that still the case? Would you (including EC ) be willing to give me your email addresses so if I have an emergency I could still keep in touch? Or is that request too personal? (Be honest.) For me, it's NOT a matter of wanting to live in the past and hang on for that reason, but more of having been through a shared experience, gaining from the insights you can still share with me. Now the length of the thread is enough to scare away most new posters, so it seems to be just "us". So let me know...this thread was started by Petvet but I don't want any of you to feel obligated to continue to return here on my account.

<small>[ March 04, 2004, 05:47 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/04/04 11:41 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

To answer your question... I have not moved on, and I look at this thread almost everyday to see if anything is new. If there is and I have time in my day and I think I can add anything to anyone's post I'll respond.

So feel free to fire away with anything you wish to discuss.

I have no intentions of going anywhere. There is still way to much still going on in my life... LOL.

So go ahead and post anything you would like... and I will give you my take on it.

This thread is far from gone... and anyone that wants to jump in and throw a post down, they can.

Hope that clears things up from my end.

I hope everyone has a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 03/05/04 04:53 PM
Hello Gang!


Wallace: I see life is buzzing right along. Sounds like you may be hitched soon, Oh Boy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .
I have not seen the record breaking Passion movie yet but I will soon.I have really never been a weekly or monthly movie goer but I do have my favorites. It sounds really exciting. I hear more and more from others that have gone is that people walk out sober and so thankful of all Jesus died on the cross for, you and me. One thing I can say is that Jesus knows the pain of betrayal by a close friend.

Petvet - I hope all is going well for you...


Avondale - So whats happening your world these days? I agree with Wallace. I don't think this thread will stop. I think as the seasons change in everyone's lives the subjects will change somewhat, but more than anything, from this thread will be healing moments.

Here's a healing moment and words of wisdom. If a WS knew this wisdom fact they would have thought twice before they got involved with OP.

Here it goes - Anytime you join yourself in a relationship with another person through betrayal or an affair, you have joined yourself with your enemy and not your friend and you're naked. Though it may appear and feel as your friend/soulmate its really your enemy.

Example - Eve thought the secret seducing words of the serpent was meeting a need - Adam and Eve became naked in the presence of there enemy...

Gen 3:7
And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons

Another:

As the children of Israel journyed out of Eygpt, Moses was up on the mountain with God getting instruction, while he was away they built an idol to worship, God saw it and moses came down and broke the tablets as in breaking a covenant (divorce), Moses asked Aaron why?, Aaron responded in a drunken way, frivilous as a WS, then it says,

Ex 32:25
And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies..
26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me......

There are many cries today of God calling the WS, saying " Come to me, Come to me , I'll make it right, yet many turn a deaf ear.."...

The betrayed spouse must stay faithful till the end....

So eventhough your WS may leave you they have joined themselves with there enemy and not there friend, they are naked and shamed.....Give the WS's relationship time and you will see it fail and they become enemies. That's why the failure rate is so high in affairs and they fight and depart afterwards...

The eyes of your betrayer will always come open, but open to shame and nakedness staring at there enemy the, (OP)...we use the term (fog lifting)...Even Judas eyes came open at what he did to Jesus...Most betrayers suffer loss in many ways, money, morals and wisdom...it's a deadend lifestyle...

Anyway I've said enough............

But as always repentance and the renewing of the mind the betrayer can always change there course...


Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/05/04 11:55 PM
Hey All,

EC...

I think the situations that you brought up, and the Scriptures you sighted are so very true, and they are a good examle of just exactly the way it is.

I also agree that this thread will most likely become a thread for healing and stating our trials and tribulations as they come up. I for one, have very mixed emotions on a number of things... so I'm far from leaving anytime soon.

In regards to getting remarried to my current G/F... I put it off until the Spring of 2005 at this point. The main reason for this, is I am not quite ready to combine both hoseholds just yet. I'm still thinking it all through as to when would be the best time to do all of this without creating to much chaos.

How have you been making out? I hope everything is going well for you.

I hope everyone has a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/09/04 12:48 PM
Hi all! Sorry for not posting here lately, but I have been having computer issues. They all started with that BUG <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ! So I did not want to take any chances by coming into the site again until I felt things were right. For some reason, I have been unable to delete my emails.

Avondale: No, I have no intentions of leaving the thread. As long as folks need help, I will try to be here. As Wallace suggested, I would get an appraisal of your spacious castle along the long winding black top driveway into the deep woods along the picturous lake. I glad to hear that you are doing well.

EC: Yes, I have seen Passion. In my opinion, it was over kill, literally. I know it actually happened, but after forty five minutes or so, I was like, "Ok Mel, I get the message!". I had to close my eyes a couple of times. It surely helps one to put things into perspective.

Wallace: It seems as though you are ticking along. That's great.

Me: I'm doing OK. Someone asked how am I able to do so good, well, I have my moments. I may decide to go for full custody of my kid. Us parents are at opposite ends of the spectrum when it gets to raising the kid. That's not going to work. Even though things are not perfect, I continue to move forward. I still hate that my marriage ended; however, I have a nice friend who helps me alot.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/10/04 11:12 PM
Hi All,

Not much new on my end... I have just been working almost non-stop since they did another cut back.

Petvet...

Glad to hear your doing O.K. I have a question for you. How do you think you would be doing, if you didn't have your buddy around? Just curious... because I think I would be doing just as well as I am, even if I didn't have a G/F. Wanted to get your opinion concerning your situation.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ March 10, 2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/12/04 12:53 PM
Ok, Here's another question
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wallace said: Just curious... because I think I would be doing just as well as I am, even if I didn't have a G/F. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is it possible you'd be doing EVEN BETTER (and not "just as well") if you didn't have a G/F at all?
Just curious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/13/04 01:54 AM
Hi All,

avondale...

You bring up a very good question there... LOL.

To answer your question, in some areas, I might do somewhat better. The reason being, is I could take my time that I do spend with my G/F, and concentrate on other areas of my life, that I know could use some additional help.

All in all though... I think in essence, the time that I have spent to date with my G/F versus doing something else that may be beneficial... has
for the most part balanced itself to the point where there is more positives than negatives.

So in retrospect... I think having her in my life and part of my life has been a positive experience for me to this point. I may have been able to acheive more possibly in my life, but on the other hand... not having her in my life to this point, may have not helped me get to the point where I am know.

Sooooooooo... LOL, and I know I am rambling... LOL... I'm not exactly sure where I may be at this point in my life, be it better or worse, if she had not become a part of it.

I feel the same as Petvet does. I wish my marriage did not meet the end that it did... and if I could turn back time and try to do something, anything to save my marriage that I didn't already try... and not have my exW do the type of things to my family and myself that she did... I would.

But I played the cards that were dealt to me, and I try to make the best of a very bad situation. Only through the grace of the good Lord, have I been able to get to the point where I am now.

I probably didn't answer your question avondale. You get this way when you have been bounced around for as long as we have... LOL.

Well I hope everyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/18/04 06:11 AM
Hi all! I apologized once again. I had to uninstall my internet system because of that bug! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I am dialing in from work. Hopefully, I should be hooked back up by Sunday.

Walalce & Avondale: As far as you question is concern, I think I have benefitted by having Buddy around. She has offered insightful feedback. She has become a friend. It has been a nice balance. I agree with Wallace that i could probably be doing other things, but I view my relationship as constructive. At first, I was concern that I was enlighten with Buddy from a need standpoint or in the desert frame of mind, but I realized that I had been in the desert alone for a couple of years and had been yearning for a healthy relationship with the opposite sex. Have I healed? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I fight everyday to walk from my pain and into the sunlight, but i am determine to take what I have learned and make what I have the best life I can for my son and I.

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 03/17/04 11:17 PM
Hello all,

I hope you don't mind this intrusion but I feel wrong not to let my presence be known. I have read much of this thread and feel like you are all old friends. However, I feel guilty being a "lurker" and not letting you know about me.

Long ago, I was drawn to the topic of "Tough Love". It is a topic I have struggled with for a number of years in my marriage. Most of the time I post in "Recovery" although I'm not always sure I belong there. I have floated to this board a few times when I thought it might head in that direction.

It has been interesting seeing how you all have grown and learned through your various experiences. Much of it I can relate to. I respect the stand you all have taken for your marriages and I am sure God will honor your decisions. I'm so sorry for the heartache each of you have experienced at different times. You each have tried so hard to make things work. But even with our best efforts, sometimes things just don't go as we hope and pray they will. That is when it can be especially tough. Through it all,God is faithful and he will carry each of us.

Please let me know if you would rather me not write. I want to respect your privacy but I also did want to introduce myself to you. I would love to write to you all as we have shared many similar challenges and I greatly respect you. Thanks and may God bless each of you!!!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/18/04 03:07 AM
Leah
It is always nice to hear from someone new! I'm sure I can speak for the others in saying you are certainly welcome to join in this thread. You say that you post mainly on Recovery - that's a board I have yet to visit, unfortunately.

You'll find the guys (I don't think there are any females left other than myself) here very friendly. I'm sure Petvet , who started this thread, will add his own greetings along with Wallace and EC .

Let us know a little bit of your background if you care to. Again, welcome <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ March 17, 2004, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 03/18/04 03:56 AM
Thank you Avondale,

It's a long story but I'll try to give you the condensed version. My husband and I have been married almost 16 years. Five years ago my world fell apart when my husband finally admitted to being in love with another woman. It hasn't been the same since. That affair was a rollercoaster ride from hell. It was over, then on again, then over and on and on it went. He moved out for eight months but eventually came home. Unfortunately, his heart didn't return home for a very long time. Two and a half years ago he entered his second affair. This one was supposedly "only" an emotional one. He moved out for a couple of months then returned home once again. Needless to say, trust has been a HUGE issue for us.

For many years I've longed to have an intimate, loving relationship with my husband. I desparately wanted to stay married and fought long and hard to remain together. By some miracle of God, we are together today. BUT, the marriage is still in need of God's touch. There are many problems.

My husband left his faith when he met OW#1. He has yet to return to God. He is a much prayed for man. I believe the core of our problems is a spiritual one. We use to have our faith as the foundation of our marriage. Without that, it is extremely difficult to rebuild. It is so challenging to rebuild trust and to forge a true bond when your hearts are in such different places.

At this point, I do not feel my husband loves me. I feel he is here more as a matter of convenience. He loves his girls and wants to have a family. But I'm afraid he also wants his freedom. He claims he is being faithful but only God knows if this is true. He met both other women in his travels. He owns his own business and he still travels.

So, all in all, we're together but not really. I continue to hope and pray for a miracle.

I will pray that for your situation too. I've read a good amount about your situation but need to catch up on the most recent news. It sounds as if your husband is moving in the direction of a divorce. Has he already filed? Even if this is the case, there is always hope for reconcilliation. I've heard some wonderful stories and still do believe in a miracle-working God.

You seem to be such a strong lady, very steadfast in your faith. I know God will honor that. It might not always be as quickly or in the way we would like. But, I believe He honors those who seek to be faithful to Him. God bless you Avondale.Thanks again for writing. Keep looking up!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 03/19/04 05:58 PM
Hi Gang!

Happy Friday!!

Leah - Welcome to the thread. You are never intruding feel free to post. I'm glad you have joined us. While our subjects may change from time to time its still a great thread started by Petvet. I'm sorry to hear what you are going through and I feel your focus is right that you realize your WS has a spiritual problem with the infidelity.

Usually at the core of most affairs you find the WS has a "Deep Root Of Bitterness Against You and Them". This bitterness gets so bad it causes spiritual blindness in them..They lose all reality. Then with along with all the bitterness you find the 'Love' of money, but you find they can't ever keep money, it blows in the wind.....Take away a WS's money and all the foolishness stops...They have no power..

Anyway just keep working on you while you're in the same house. God can turn a hard heart of a WS into a soft one in time. This is not about how bad you are as they make you feel, but this is about you moving into what God has purposed for you in life. Keep posting

Petvet - Glad to see you moving along. I agree that having someone by your side sometimes can help depending on how far divorce is behind you. We all wish our marriages could have worked.

Wallace - I see 2005 is coming in with a bang. I guess we all need to learn from you.

Avondale - How are things with you these days? Are you staying strong through the storm? One day it will all pass.Stay encouraged...

Me: Not much new. Just waiting for summer to hit. I will be done with CS finally. YD graduates in May and I get go see her and OD, and unfortunately OM, but I think I'm ready now.

YD told me exww lost her job a few weeks ago due to layoffs, so she gets some time now to ponder where she's going....YD told exww and OM went to see the Passion of Christ movie and OM started going to church weekly afterwards. YD said exww wouldn't go to church with OM, so OM went by himself....Now YD told me OM is trying to move back where he came from and is leaving exww.

This is kinda funny because this guy is thugish <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> from what I'm told. The very thing exww ran away from, has come back to her (a Christian Man). One of her main issues with me as she said bodly in front of our counsler was " she didn't want no christian husband" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , so she went out and got her a thug, a sugardaddy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...Now she's right back where she started with God on this issue with OM, he's going to church, and she's left to find her way again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ....


Take Care
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 03/20/04 06:53 AM
Thanks EC,

I appreciate the welcome and the encouraging words. I agree with your assessment re: bitterness and the other problem being the love of money. My husband has been very successful in his business but it has led him down the wrong path. With money and success comes power and opportunity. Unfortunately, he hasn't always made the wisest choices with those opportunities.

Right now he is home sick. He's been in the hospital and is now recupperating(sp?)at home.
I'm praying God would use his illness to get his attention and draw him back to Himself. I'm also praying for strength and patience as I deal with a very angry, frustrated man.

Very interesting news with the OM. Wow, that is certainly an ironic turn of events. Could it be the beginning of ew getting things right in her life? Wouldn't that be something! I hope your visit with your daughters go well. I have daughters and I know how important the father-daughter relationship is. Those girls need you in their lives.

Take care everyone and hope you all have a great weekend!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/19/04 07:50 PM
Hi All,

This has been a very busy week for me with work and taxes... but I'm getting through it.

Leah...

Welcome to the "Tough Love thread!

Don't feel as though you are intruding, as everyone is always welcome to lurk and post on this thread whenever they would like to.

I read about your situation and your assesment of the state of your "M".

Money and power does open up many situations for any given person. It's how they conduct themselves and handle themselves that makes a person happy. Money alone does not make the man, and in many cases it leads to their utter downfall.

Hopefully, while your "H" is recuperating... you can use this time to try to reestablish the intimacy in your "M", that appears to have dwindled.

This is a great time to put on the best Plan A. you can. Maybe it will take away his bitterness, and frustration.

I have experienced what your going through... and it's not a pretty site. I couldn't overcome my situation... that was due to the fact, that I had slipped in my faith and so did my exW. Had we not slipped, and kept the Lord as the center of our life , maybe things might have turned out different.

Glad to see you posting... keep us all informed, as your progress through these days.

EC...

After reading your post... which was right on the numbers by the way, as far as what you posted. I had to say to myself... "how ironic"!

The Lord works in mysterious ways... but to see this OM do this type of a turnabout is truly quite amazing.

I went and saw "The passion of the Christ", and IMHO it was quite a moving experience. I know of a number of people that have done a complete turnaround and have started attending Church again, after viewing this movie. I'm glad Mel Gibson made this movie... if it helps bring people back to the Lord... then IMO, it's a good thing.

Are you nervous about seeing your daughters? I recall the graduation you went to for your OD If my mind serves me correctly (and sometimes I wonder about that), you had quite an experience.

Soooooo... now that the OM seems to be heading in the direction of Christ... what do you think your exW's next move will be?

avondale and Petvet...

How are you both making out?

Anything news or any new developments avondale with your "H"?

Well I hope everyone has a great day and a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/20/04 12:02 PM
EC - I know you’re glad about your CS ending. You should go out and celebrate, do something for you with the money you will now have in your own pocket! Have you thought of a graduation gift for your daughter? How is the oldest daughter doing? At different times, both had talked about staying with you...any more developments like that?

As for OM now going to church, that is happening a lot as a result of that movie. I haven’t seen it yet, and I’m not sure if I can, to be honest. As you, I already know and appreciate the sacrifice Jesus made for me and to watch my Friend suffer like that would probably send me over the edge. I don’t do well with intense movies of any type, anyway.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Leah said:
My husband left his faith when he met OW#1. He has yet to return to God. He is a much prayed for man. I believe the core of our problems is a spiritual one. We use to have our faith as the foundation of our marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, I think it’s accurate to say that “the core of every marriage problem is probably a spiritual one” if for no other reason than the fact that the Enemy hates marriage, and God hates divorce, and there is a war because of it. However, some “attacks” are more blatant and deeper, simply because the parties involved already had a strong spiritual foundation to begin with. Ooops, I’m starting to preach, LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

That is exactly the scenario for our marriage, and where things stand with my H, except he moved out almost two years ago. I think there is a lot more hope when you’re still in the same house as you are, Leah. But I haven’t given up hope yet. And the Lord has given me regular reassurances that He is with me, no matter what happens. For that I am grateful.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 03/22/04 06:45 AM
Hello All

Hope you have all been enjoying a good weekend.

Wallace,

Thank you for your welcome. Yes, I am hoping and praying that God would use my husband's illness for good in all of our lives. That would be so exciting if it could actually lead to some positive change.

I had to smile when I read your "Plan A" advice. I feel like I've been "plan A-ing" forever. It has been five years since the big affair and I've tried to extend grace and mercy for a long time. According to most of my family and friends, for too long. Hence, my attraction to this thread on tough love. But at this point in time, plan A is what is on the plate for as long as God gives me the grace to do so.

Avondale,

I admire your strong stand for your marriage. How I pray that God will do a miracle for you both!!
I agree with you that all our marriages suffer from spiritual problems. We are all too human and we sin. But, it's great to know God is bigger than all our problems and struggles.

I'm not always sure it's easier to work on M when husband is at home. Because of the many hurtful and destructive things that have taken place and continue to take place, it's very difficult to have trust or respect. Trying to build a relationship without these needed ingredients is very difficult.

There are times I've wondered if we were living apart, if it would foster an appreciation for what he would hopefully be missing. It seems right now he has his cake and is eating it too. But I have to commit this whole thing to God and trust him with the results.

Keep the faith and hope. My cousin left his wife for two and a half years before finally getting his life right. They are now very happily married and living for God together. Their story is such an encouragement to me!!! One never knows what God may have in our future. Take care.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/22/04 01:06 PM
Leah
Thank you for your encouragement and kind words. You're right, you've been standing a long time! Five years in Plan A would kill most women, LOL.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Leah said:
I'm not always sure it's easier to work on M when husband is at home. Because of the many hurtful and destructive things that have taken place and continue to take place, it's very difficult to have trust or respect. Trying to build a relationship without these needed ingredients is very difficult.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I see what you mean. I guess there are positive and negative points for both stances. What I meant was when you're together, at least you can feel like it's WORTH doing Plan A, even if just for your own peace of mind. The WS may or may not notice, depending on their fog level.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Leah said: There are times I've wondered if we were living apart, if it would foster an appreciation for what he would hopefully be missing. It seems right now he has his cake and is eating it too. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know what? I think until the WS comes to a heart-felt realization of what they did, and repent, they're always going to be cake-eaters of some sort, whether they live at home or not. My H is able to have a whole separate life from me but still feels justified because he's "doing the right thing" by paying me support and also because he has yet to file for D. When he first left, he admitted to me he was depressed (he's predisposed to this already) and it was a struggle for him. But the OW was there to fill in his empty spaces (not God). I'm not stopping him from being in contact with her, and I haven't hindered anything he's done professionally or personally. So the shock value of leaving affects people differently.

Perhaps Wallace could comment more, as he tried several times for recovery with his EXW.

BTW, your story about your cousin was timely. I needed that "shot in the arm" type of encouragement.

Petvet - how's tax season treating you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Well, off to work.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 03/23/04 02:06 AM
Hi Avondale,

I agree that there are both positives and negatives to each situation, living together or apart. I guess we both have to find the good in where we are and just trust the results to God either way. Thanks for sharing your perspective in regard to the way your husband handles your separation. It was good for me to read that because I can see my husband potentially responding the same way.

If I were you, I would hold on to the idea that respect is hopefully being maintained and that your love is not further being challenged by dealing with ongoing issues each day. My cousin saw little, if any, of his wife while they were separated. So, indeed there is always hope in God.

I'm sure either way, you will be okay. You seem to be a very strong lady with so much to offer. I wish for you much peace and joy in your future.

You are right about being able to be at peace about knowing I have tried, even if husband doesn't always reciprocate. I think the same for you. You have done all you can do to preserve the marriage. The choice is clearly in your husband's hands. I feel this way I can look back without guilt, no matter what ends up happening. It might still end by either of us but I will be able to accept it better knowing I gave it my all.

HI TO EC, WALLACE, and PETVET,
I hope you all are doing well. Take care.
God bless.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/23/04 11:55 PM
Hi All,

Leah...

When my marriage was falling apart and after numerous recoveries... I was in Plan A. (and not realizing it at the time until I found the MBers site).

I kept Plan A. up for a very long time, until I decided to just give up and throw in the towel, and let the chips fall where they did. Had I had the Lord as my focus at that point in time, I might have been able to salvage my "M".

I was worn down though, both mentally, and financially, and I just couldn't keep going on with the way things were going. They didn't get better for me or my family... they got worse. So instead on relying on the Lord... I took matters into my own hands, and just started shutting down, and not caring anymore what direction my marriage would take. Had I saw some positive results in my Plan A. take effect and hold... I would of continued.

In regards to seperating and or moving from the household. I think it's a very bad idea, unless their is some sort of abuse going on. I don't buy in on the fact that abscence makes the heart grow fonder. In fact if anything... it make it even more difficult to try to put your marriage back together. It's a huge gamble to try that... and sometimes it works... but most of the time it leads to the demise of the "M" in IMHO.

Hope everyone is having a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 03/24/04 04:46 PM
Thanks Wallace,

I really appreciate your input. It is good for me to hear other's stories and perspectives. It seems to me from reading what I've read in this thread, you gave it your all. Very few men would have lasted as long as you. It seems you and your family are in a better place now then you would have been if you had continued where you were. I hope this new relationship can be a genuine joy to you and can begin to replace some of the heartache you have experienced.

Overall, I think things are better now then they were for several years, although they are still far from perfect. The hardest thing for me is feeling so unloved and undesired by my husband. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> If I think of it as a "room mate" situation, I can make it. I just long for so much more. And there are times I wonder if it's right to "settle" for that type of marriage.

I guess it's one thing to have that type of marriage if there weren't ever blatant deception, and repeated adultery but with that being our history it makes it much more difficult to accept. Am I being a whiney baby??

Any input from you, Avondale, EC or Petvet would be greatly appreciated. I know all of you dealt with different amount of disrespect in your marriages. If it were possible to have what I now have, would it be enough?? Would you go back to that? I'd be glad to give more details if that would be helpful. Thanks so much for being a great group of people!!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 03/26/04 02:20 PM
Hello Gang.......


Avondale - I haven't decided what I'm getting YD for her graduation yet. It's kinda of wierd having now both out of HS. I still feel in parent mode like they're like babies, but I'll get over it. I still haven't felt really single yet..I still can't believe D-day was in late 2000 that far away and I'm still dealing with a few tangled issues. But more than anything I'm glad the hardest parts are over.


Leah - Your marriage can turn out to be a good one if both parties give it all they got. I'm convinced it takes 2 to make it work. All marriages go through dry and alive times " Seasons of Change" because we move from what we didn't know into more knowledge as we grow older. Sometimes that's when couples lose connection during those times of change.
Regardless, a persons affair(s) is a poor excuse for not dealing with issues.

However seeing what I went through the many times of discoveries. If my spouse didn't show me change and do the things it took to restore a marriage such as, repentance, open honesty and trusting actions, that I could heal and we could heal. I wouldn't waste my time, because its a endless cycle. But if those things are there, then I think it's worth the try, because they are trying.

If they weren't trying, then why try to force,lure or coherece somebody to love you? Men are like wild animals when it comes to women, they are moved by sight, when they see what they want and they get a signal that says come, they go after it....Everybody needs somebody to speak into there life, however, it should the right person with the right things and motives. So as long as you and your H are in the same house you have better chance of a good outcome.

Anyway I rambled enough..


Wallace - Whats up with you these days?

Petvet - How about you? Anything new?


Take Care
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/26/04 10:13 PM
Yippppeeeee! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm so glad it's Friday! I really need a break, and am looking forward to going to the park tomorrow for my routine early morning walk/run with friends from the gym.

I'm looking at yardwork with a different eye now, an eye that might have to give it up if we divorce. I cannot keep it going by myself, it's more than I can handle. So I go back and forth between sadness and expectation. Hmmm...

Anyway, hope everyone has a great weekend! I'm outta here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ March 26, 2004, 04:16 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/26/04 11:22 PM
Hi All,


Leah...

Concerning the situation that your in... and my take on it... and since this is the "Tough Love" thread... here is my 2 cents worth.

While your "H" is recuperating and at home. I would continue with your Plan A.. You have been in Plan A. for a long time, and your coming to a point where you will have to make a decision once he has fully recuperated.

If he starts back up with the same thing as before, your going to have to ask yourself the question... "how long do I want to put up with this"?

As I agree with what EC stated, and it is the best aproach to take for now. You eventually reach a point of no return... especially when your spouse is having a continuous cycle of affairs with no end in sight.

It's like putting money in a business or 401k account and it's costing you more than you could ever possibly get out of it. If it's costing you more than it's worth and your putting all your efforts into it with o sign of relief. Then it's time to take a hard look at it, and see if it is still worth all the time and trouble to continue with it. Knowing full well, it may not get better, and most likely will get worse.

There are some that will disagree... but your spouse going out and having affairs is one of the grounds for a divorce in the Bible.

IMHO... once you have given it your all, and nothing has changed or may have gotten worse and you know in your mind that you have done all you can do. Then it's time for some "Tough Love"!

Once you have made that commitment to take that direction... you have to stick with it, as it is not a direction to take just as a bluff... you have to be ready to follow through what I deem is one of the hardest ordeals you may ever face in your life time. It's a last resort move with the hope that yout spouse will eventually wake up and realize what they have lost. IMHO... sometimes it works, and many times it does not.

I went through so many recoveries with my exW over the years, I lost count.

The problem for us I believe is we both fell back into the same old patterns as time went on, and we didn't keep the Lord as the main focus in our family.

I was busy with my work, and what little time I did have for my family, was mostly spent with my kids. She on the other hand had a penchant for stealing and lying... as well as having affairs. I knew about the stealing and lying to a degree, but not to the extent that it turned out to really be in real life... and I had no idea about her affairs. She was very good at hiding that... in fact she was a Pro.

Had I even thought she was having an affair... I would have dumped her the moment I found out about it.

To me... it is one of the worst things, if not the worst thing you can do to violate a "M".

Considering all of my exW's actions... we are much better off with my exW gone from our lives.

As much as I wished it would of never had to take the path that it did... it's a path that I would never want to go down ever again.

I know I'm rambling... LOL! I do it all the time, so please excuse me for going on and on, when I could of answered your question in about 24 words or less. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

EC...

I'm doing pretty good, how about yourself?

Not a whole lot going on, except my G/F is looking around for a new house to buy... plus she is back on the "let's get married" in September again.

The thing about the new house this time is... she wants us to merge our families together and move into this house.

I think her thinking is... if she finds a nice house that she knows I will really like... I will want to buy the house and get married all at the same time. In other words... move the time line on "M", front and center.

Concerning your YD... did she graduate already?

I thought she wasn't going to graduate for at least a couple of months.

Anyway... if she didn't graduate yet, are you going to her graduation like you planned, and are you having mixed emotions about seeing your exW again.

I recall when you went to your OD's graduation, and all that happened then. I hope you have a very enjoyable time when you go to your YD's graduation, if you already haven't.

Any word on your exW's B/F, and him going to Church and hopefully realizing the errors of his way?

avondale and Petvet...

Hope you two are doing well. Let us know when you get a chance.

Well I hope everone has a great day and a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ March 26, 2004, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/27/04 11:56 AM
Hi all! I'll be back later on this weekend but wanted to let you know that I have been w/o a computer for the past week and half. I had to buy another computer.

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 03/27/04 10:45 PM
Hi Everyone!! Hope you're all enjoying a great weekend. Mine has been very busy but good. Yea!!My husband is feeling almost better. He returned to work part time this week. Happy news as things were getting rather tense here. He is use to being in charge at work and tends to like to micro-manage at home. He's usually gone all the time so we've had some "interesting" moments this past month. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

AVONDALE,

I hope you got to get out, walk, exercise and work in your garden. I enjoy doing all the same. I'm sure it must be tough doing the yardwork on your own. I hope you can keep some type of garden going for your own enjoyment. I'm not sure if you read my last post but I'd appreciate your input too. You seem to have a solid relationship with God. Would you stay in your marriage if your husband returned but did so like mine? Thanks for any words of wisdom. Take care.

EC,

Thank you for writing back. I appreciate your thoughts. I'm glad for you that some of the more difficult and frustrating days are behind you.It must be quite something to have your YD graduating. I have three girls. It seems the older they get, the faster time flies. I'm glad you continue to try to keep a relationship going with them. I hope this graduation is a positive experience for all of you. I hope it's much happier than last time. I will pray for that.

I agree it takes two to make it. I also like the requirements you have for marriage for recovery (repentance, open honesty, trusting actions) My challenge is that it seems I kinda have those and I kinda don't. Is that possible? He seemed sorry for past behaviors but probably not genuinely remorseful and repentant or would he have gone there again?

He can seem honest and trustworthy on some levels,
then later I learn he wasn't totally revealing truth. As in, he wasn't lying but then he was failing to leave out any info. that he knew would most likely be upsetting to me.(ie... seeing a past HS friend when he was up visiting his folks. He had e-mailed her a few times and phoned her a few times. He said it was all in friendship. She had contacted him because of an upcoming HS reunion. The initial contact he shared with me. But the rest of the info. he kept secret)

I agree you can't and shouldn't waste time cohersing anyone to love you. I don't feel I do that. In fact, I've encouraged husband to leave if he is not happy here. He insist he is and that he loves me but actions would indicate otherwise.

Thanks again for your input.

WALLACE,

I appreciate your counsel also. You are right that it gets to be about time to make a decision. I feel I've decided to stay unless I discover he's being unfaithful. Defining that boundary has been the tough part for me. If you could please read some of what I wrote to EC, that might give you some insight to what I mean. According to my husband, there have been no affairs for three years. However, there have been a couple of questionable relationships. This last one was last summer. He claims it was nothing, just a little "ego - booster" from an old friend. The reason he ended up telling me was because her husband discovered they were e-mailing and calling and he expected the worse. They both claim innocence.

So, this is the type of behavior that leaves me with many questions. He supposedly has no inappropriate relationships with anyone and has no desire to go there. But how can you ever know after so many past deceptions. Thats why I'm left always wondering. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Has your girl friend found a new house? Please be careful to not make a commitment for a September wedding till your 100% sure. That's such a huge commitment. I'd hate for you to feel pressured to do something your not totally elated about. Things have moved along quickly for you since your divorce. I guess that can be good and bad.

I wish you much happiness with your new lady. I just want for you to be sure of the timing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


PETVET,

Sorry to hear about your computer. Hope your pleased with your new one. The way mine has been acting I'm thinking I might have to do the same. Maybe I just need a moniter-it keeps coming and going on me. Oh well. Hope you're doing well.


I need to run and pick up my daughter from a birthday party. Hope everyone has had a good day. Look forward to hearing from you all soon. God bless.

<small>[ March 27, 2004, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/28/04 11:52 AM
Leah,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You said: Would you stay in your marriage if your husband returned but did so like mine? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’m not sure if I can answer that. I play out different scenarios in my mind - “What if THIS happened?” or “What if THAT happened?” kind of thing. To be real honest, the thought of my husband coming back to the marriage, without his being right with God (more than just repentance, but a full-time ON FIRE relationship with God) is very scarey and I’m not sure I could do that. But like everything else, I would have to trust God, right?
The year before he went out of state and met the OW was not the best year in our marriage. I’ve been doing a lot of reflecting lately. While things weren’t bad (we don’t fight, lie, steal, etc.) things certainly weren’t good, either. I think he was probably very ripe for an emotional or physical affair, part of which was my fault. And you’re right, living in a roommate situation wasn’t fun.

I’ve retyped the next sentence several times, so obviously I am not sure what I’d do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> At first I wrote I would prefer being together over being single. REASON: I had to do so much yard work yesterday, all by myself, and I was tired, sore, etc... (It was the first time I had mowed the grass post-surgery and I’m not sure if I’ll be able to do it all summer. Not to mention all the other hubby things that I’m now having to do to keep up the house.)

Then I deleted that and wrote I wouldn’t go back to the way things were, being roommates. REASON: I realized very soon after he left that I had been walking on eggshells around him. Example, I didn’t play Christian music in the car or house, or didn’t go to anything other than Sunday morning at church. (Disclaimer: I am not a Bible-thumping fundamentalist. But he was so obviously against anything religious, there was a subtle disagreement always simmering.)

LOL I’m a fickled woman, what can I say? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I think the bottom line is, we need to be content where we’re at, and trust God to guide our steps, whatever they may be. Are you seeing a counselor, or talking with your pastor, or anything “official” about how to best deal with your situation?

Wallace - I totally agree with you - once you do Tough Love it's difficult to back down, and it isn't always successful. I hope I dont' offend you by saying it sounds as if your g/f is being a little manipulative with the marriage & house hunting. What's your take on it? Have you changed your mind, or letting her call the shots because you're a bowl of jello around her? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Petvet - I got a Dell laptop and couldn't be happier. Hope you get up and running soon, we miss you! I guess tax season isn't when you want to be dealing with these inconveniences, either.

EC - Yep, both daughters out of high school. You're definitely an old man now. But I'm one to talk - my daughter and son-in-law just bought their first house. I guess grandkids will be next, huh?

<small>[ March 28, 2004, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 03/28/04 11:55 PM
Just dropping in to give an update

FWH is home now, and we are closing down the business that he was "running" (to the ground). We are liquidating, but I am soooo happy to be rid of it, because it reminds me of the life he was living while there.

Last year was a strange year, I started the year seriously thinking about dv. Things kept happening (God was working on me) that kept me from filing. Such as
April - WH spent a month away from his crazy life and we were together for a short period but all the feelings came back for me. He kept saying he was going to close the business and come home but would get back in the black hole.

In September, we were together again out of town and he looked and acted so horrible (sick from drugs, etc.) that I left that afternoon not looking back at him and said it was over for me, I could not watch him destroy himself. That same night, I am sitting church, and I hear God say" Call WH and tell him you love him and you want him to come home." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> WHAT!!!???!!! I fought back and forth in my head but in the end I did call him. He replied that he loved me and he was comming home.

Oct - The Lord was really working on me. I decided to do an intervention and began to realize that I needed to pray effectively. I kept hearing "If I don't pray for WH, who will?" I began to learn more about spiritual warfare and began to pray differently.

Nov - I did a "soft" intervention but WH didn't seek sobriety. He kept saying he was comming home.

Early Dec - Did a full formal intervention. WH blamed me and was very angry. I had cut off the money and he was very angry at that. The next day I filed for a legal separation. I had finally realized that I would stand for my marriage and not get a dv but needed to get away from his insanity. I started a modified plan b by not contacting him and was prepared to live without him.

I then wrote a letter to WH, kind of a Tough love, MB combination saying that I loved him, I had been a faithful wife, but I was releasing him to his choices and hoped he would respect my decision to separate that way.

He called me when he got the letter and was a broken man. Wh apologized, said that he had blamed me for everything when it was him, that he loved me and admitted to what was going on. I told him then that I had filed a legal separation and it really got to him. He said he was closing the business and comming back to the area that if I didn't want him at home, to find him a place to live. We had the most honest conversation that we had had in a long, long time.

The next day, there was a fire at the business in his living quarters <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> A friend called him and said "Do you think God is trying to get your attention? Get out of there !!!! (Looking back it may have been to get WH's attention, but it may have been to get OW out of there. She had been living there with him.)

So he got home right before Christmas. He had surgery in January then from mid Feb to Mid march we went together to start the process of liquidating the business. It was awfull being up there but I was so glad to be closing it down. I felt disconnected, was supposed to start my new career in Real Estate and every where I turned, horrible memories came back. I even found some of OW's journals <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

OW is a psycho and that is being nice. She keeps calling and calling. One time she left a message on our home phone that she was pregnant and she was going to keep it this time. (She wasn't pregnant) She has tried all kinds of things. I told FWH that we can get through anything as long as he mantains NC and does what it takes to make me feel safe.

While we were up there closing down the business, OW stalked the place but never came in while we wer there. It was prayers that kept her out. The last day we were there, I dropped off FWH to go run errands and OW came. She yelled and screamed that her stuff had been gone through. ( She left it on the back dock) FWH just stayed inside and didn't let her know he was there. I got the feeling I should pray while out running errands and did. No doubt it was the exact time that OW was ranting and raving.

OW kept leaving messages on FWH's cell phone ( I had phone and was getting the messages, not him.) One time she would say she missed him, then the next that she was getting on with her life and had her first date. Then she wanted money or she was going to send me a video, then call me I miss you, then I hate you, blah, blah blah. That day she was there, a friend saw her and said she was dressed to kill, no doubt for FWH.

I realized that she would let me know if FWH and her were in contact !!! She can't keep her mouth shut, and never could. I used to get " anonymous " phone calls from her friends. It was almost comical. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

FWH is back up there to put closure to the business (we have to have everything out by the 31st) I had to put him in God's hands. Before he left, we talked about OW. He just about shuttered and said he couldn't imagine being with her. He said the things she had done lately really turned him off, that she was GETTING crazy. (SIDE NOTE- At first I was pissed at this. Just getting crazy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> She has been like this the whole time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Then I realized, he is comming out out of the fog ! and just beginning to see her for what she really is!

This is just the condensed version but I post so that others who are standing will have hope. Rejoice ministries has really had an effect on me, and my stand for my marriage. I deleted thier daily emails when I thought I was going to get a dv.

God is a mighty God, capable of anything. He is helping us through recovery. I didn't know how I would forgive but when I give it to the Lord, He takes care of it.

One last thought, There was a scripture that stuck out to me this week 2 Timothy 2:26 paraphrased that Satan can capture the will of humans to do his bidding. I realized that WH had been taken captive because when I prayed deliverence prayers and spiritual warfare, it happened very quickly so that I would know it was God.

Blessings to all of you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

D.

<small>[ March 28, 2004, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/29/04 02:04 AM
WGTT
Wow, I had wondered where you were and what was going on with you. Last I recall, you said you were going to file. What absolutely wonderful, encouraging news! And you're right, he IS coming out of the fog. I am so happy that the road to recovery looks good for you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Is your H in any type of 12 step program? Are you still sailing? It's great to hear from you, no matter what the news is.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 03/29/04 05:49 PM
WGTT,

Thanks for sharing your story. It's wonderful for you that things have turned around in such a positive way. God is a miracle working God!!! I wish for you and your husband much happiness. God bless.

AVONDALE,

Thanks for your reply to my question. I can so relate to you. lol Your answer sounded like one of mine. It's nice to know I'm not the only fickle one around. I guess thats the very reason I'm still here. I can see both the positive and negative to both scenarios. Makes you kind of crazy at times. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

At this point, I'm going to try to remain open to the marriage unless unfaithfulness should occur again. I'm still working out the terms of "unfaithfulness" in case needed. Any thoughts on the definition?? Thanks and God bless.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 03/30/04 02:26 PM
I feel like I need to explain my last question further. In stating that I need to work out my definition of unfaithfulness, I'm trying to more accurately establish boundaries. It's obvious that affairs are unacceptable. So is repeated personal contact with another lady but where exactly do you draw the line?? If it's supposedly a few phone calls or e-mails to an old friend, is that enough to divorce over? This was the scenario last year. They both said it wasn't any more involved than that. But, within the context of our situation, with the given history, it was enough to greatly damage the trust factor and to make it all the more challenging to continue. That is why I'm trying to be mentally prepared if something like that should occur again. Do I make any sense?? It seems things with my husband are often cloudy. He can often seem so innocent so I find myself confused in my response.

Avondale, you asked if I am seeing a counselor. I've seen counselors off and on the past five years. I've counseled with my pastor and other "professionals". I also have a good friend who is a therapist. So I've received a good amount of help. Most of the counsel I've received has been from Christian counselors. They seem to generally have the take that it really could go either way. They feel I've Biblical grounds for a divorce, but I could certainly choose to continue to remain married and wait for God to do a miracle. They all concur that this is an unusual and difficult situation.

Thanks to all of you. I hope you are all doing well. God bless.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/30/04 07:46 PM
Hi All &#8211; It's a dreary day here, hope you have sunshine where you're at! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Leah - I understood that what you meant had to do with boundaries. And all I can respond is my personal opinion, and I'll probably ramble, lol... Does your H know that the "repeated personal contact / email with an old friend makes you feel uncomfortable"? (It would make me feel uncomfortable, too.) I mean, have you told him that in no uncertain terms? If so, and he continues, then you have a boundary issue, and a counselor may help. Has he seen a counselor with you? Or is it just you, going alone? Or does he deny there is a problem of trust in your marriage, or say it's all YOUR problem? And I can't recall, but did you actually read Dobson's Tough Love book?

Ultimately, no one can tell you what kind of boundaries to have; that's something you must do yourself. And they need to be boundaries that you can live with, because when they're broken, that provokes another action on your part. Hence we have Tough Love. Otherwise, why have boundaries? But then you get into the "greasy grace" kind of situation...if the boundary is broken, doesn't grace cover a multitude of infractions? Should you have mercy? How much? I think that's probably where you are at right now. If I were you, rely on the people who love you and know you best, and pray about whatever they tell you before you act.

BTW, have you gotten any legal advice since all this happened five years ago? And I'm guessing you're under 40 yrs old; how old are your kids? Those answers will play into my next rambling message, LOL...
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 03/31/04 01:30 AM
Hi all! I am finally back in one peace. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Leah2be: A belated welcome from me. I am sorry to hear about your WH issues. I would have to agree with Wallace that I would do Plan A while he is in recuperation, but I would recommend Plan B when he participates in his other wandering activites. It's hard to determine what to do when the person is still living with you. It is very stressful because you are always wondering whether your spouse is being truthful or just lying. Hopefully, he will come around, but if he continues his negative activites, then you will have to make a decision what you want to do. 1. Take the punishment, do nothing, and stay stagnant, or 2. become proactive and work for the positive whether it's with him or not. Most importantly is, can I withstand this going forward? Also, Talk to us as much as you need to. I am not going anywhere.

EC: Your ex is getting what she deserves. She is back where she started.

Avondale: I am busy, busy, busy. My computer issues have thrown me so far behind. That ---- BUG! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> How are you doing?

Wallace: What's up bud! 2005, hmmmmmmmm? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WGWH: Sorry, I got the lettering wrong. You have gone on a tear. I will have to read your thread later.

Me: Now, time to go jogging.

And I'm gone.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 03/31/04 01:46 PM
Happy Wednesday Everyone!!


PETVET,

It was good to hear from you. So sorry for your computer difficulties. That can be so frustrating. Hope you can get caught up soon. Hope everything else in your life is going well.

Thanks for the advice. Yes, it is most difficult to not know whether you have truth or lies in a marriage. The reason I'm not currently in Plan B is because as far as I now know he is currently being faithful. BUT, I feel like I'm always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I'm trying to get my ducks in a row and be ready should that happen. One of the ways I'm trying to be prepared is by having a good handle on the boundaries issues. So... we shall see.

AVONDALE,

Hi there! I don't think you ramble at all. My husband tells me I talk in circles, so maybe we speak the same language. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Let's see if I can answer some of your questions.Yes, I've read Tough Love, twice. Maybe I need to read it again and memorize it this time. lol.

My husband has seen a counselor with me but it was only when he was in the throes of being in love with another. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> So, we weren't concentrating on our relationship but dealing with other issues at the time.

As far as communicating my feelings about contact with other women, I've let him know this is totally unacceptable to me. So the problem is with boundaries. My issues seem to primarily be with "So what do I do now???" He will admit guilt(as in,"I wouldn't like it either" not like "I was more involved than I should have been". He will say it was just calls or e-mails meant in friendship) tell me he's so sorry, he didn't mean to hurt me, he loves me and wants the marriage to work...

Then I'm left with the "greasy grace" scenario. I love that term. I never heard it before. lol. Then I'm left wondering how I'm suppose to respond. The last time was nine months ago. I guess thats why I'm "gearing up" again for something. I'm seriously considering going to see a counselor to address the whole boundary thing. I need help knowing how to respond to my husband. Not only with this issue but many others. He can be very unkind at times. Not physically but emotionally.

Let's see... age question. I'm 42 and our girls are 8,10 and 12. Next, legal question, Yes, I've been to see an attorney four or five times now. Financially, husband has had plenty of time to manipulate money situation. He could have it stashed just about anywhere. He has total control of the funds. I work part time but he just gives me less money than the usuall given amount for any money I make. I'm not so sure I've worded that very good. Hope you can decipher my greek. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Talk about rambling... I win hands down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

How are you doing Avondale? Any news from your husband? Are you holding up okay? My thoughts and prayers are with you. I hope you have a good day!

EC and WALLACE, I hope you both are doing well.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/31/04 10:31 PM
I wonder how many of those reading this thread have read " Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harley? If so, at what point in your affair/recovery cycle did you read it; and did you apply it (and just as importantly, did your WS apply it) wholeheartedly if you were in recovery?

Leah's postings brought that book to my mind, and so I found my copy (haven't needed it that much since after hubby moved out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ). Leah, have you read it? I would strongly recommend it, and also would ask you to consider making an appointment with one of the Harleys. I have talked to Steve Harley several times, and the insight and direction I got in 50 minutes with him far outweighed the counseling sessions received from our local counselor (both individually and with hubby).

In particular, there are chapters in Surviving an Affair that deal with Preparing for Marital Recovery, and The Four Rules to Guide Marital Recovery. Here's a link for them, they're in the middle of the page, so you may need to scroll down to find it: Four Rules

I know there is so much info at the MB site that sometimes the articles and stuff get lost. But this is what I would recommend for consideration if your H is agreeable to working on the marriage.

<small>[ March 31, 2004, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 03/31/04 11:57 PM
Hi All,

WGTT...

I was wondering how you were doing. It seems like the circus ride you have been on, is slowly coming to a halt. I'm so happy to hear that your "H" is coming out of the fog. Has he moved back home yet, and if not, what are his plans for the long term?

Keep up the good work, and keep us informed as things progress. it's always good to hear good news.

Let's see... that would make three people from this thread who managed to get back with their spouses. WGTT, Free, and Dave.

I'll say prayers for you WGTT, and hope everything goes into a positive direction for you.

Leah...

As far as setting boundaries with your "H", and considering what has happened in the past in your "M", and is he still being faithful now... my take on it is like this.

Once you have trusted someone, and they have turned around and violated that trust... it takes a long time for that trust to be rebuilt.

"Trust is not given... it is earned". Especially after a continued violation of your trust.

My G/F had a "H", and I had a wife, and I know many people unfortunately that have been with a spouse that just when you would begin to trust them again... they would go out and jerk it all up and bring you right back to square one with everything, again, and again and again. Then they would say, "well how come you don't trust me"?

Well why do you think? Because your a sneak and a liar, and that has never changed.

My point being... your "H" should in fact be considering your feelings in regards to his communication with this other woman, no matter what they contend their relationship is. It makes it very difficult if not almost nearly impossible to build a happy and healthy "M" back up again when there is sideline type activity like this going on.

I may be cynical when it comes to things like this. But I have seen this and have lived this type of arrangement with my own marriage as well as seeing and hearing about it in other peoples marriages as well... and most of the time it does not have a happy ending. IMHO, I have found that most of the unfaithful spouses all have this special something... they lie continuously... about just about darn near everything. They have lied so often and for so long... they don't know how to tell the truth.

In short... LOL, I know I'm rambling, no question about it. I agree with what avondale has stated.

I'm glad to hear that your standing for your "M". One thing I would suggest... is sit down with your "H", and tell him your feelings. Once you have done this... I would sit back and watch. His actions and the Lord will tell you what direction your "M" may be heading.

Petvet...

Glad to hear you got your computer back to where you need it... it's good to have you back.

Yep... it looks like it's going to be 2005 for the big day. Only one problem... she isn't sure what month or day to do it. She wants to get "M" right now... but the timing is not right for me at the moment.

How is everything going on your end.

avondale...

Anything new coming from your "H" at this point?

Keep doing what your doing... only time and the Lord will be able to put it into perspective.

EC...

After reading your last post again and after what Petvet stated... it struck me... that in fact, she is back to square one again.

How are you holding up?

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/02/04 02:10 PM
Hi all!

Leah:In the end, it is up to you to decide what direction to go. I would have to agree with Wallace. Once the WS gets going down the lying road, they may mask what they are doing but in the end they still lie. The stress on the faithful party is unbearable.

Avondale: How are you handling things?

Wallace: Slow things down Big Guy (or Little Guy or In Between Guy). Take your time.

Me: I am taking my time. I am in no hurry. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/03/04 06:26 AM
Hi All,

TGIF... it's been a very long week for me.

Petvet...

I was listening to Dr. Laura the other day. On this particular day it sounded like she said to a number of people with a similiar situation such as mine... that if you have been divorced and you have older kids... To not get "M" until all of your children are out of the house and on their own.

Anybody else hear this type of statement from any of the respected people in the field?

Well back to work... hope everyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/03/04 06:57 AM
Wallace
You said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anybody else hear this type of statement from any of the respected people in the field? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I have definitely heard this, from someone who is in the field and very much respected. I heard it from a guy named Wallace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and if I had the time, I'd look back at all the posts where you stated that was a requirement during the initial stage (and later, too) of "courtship" with your g/f. Stick to your guns, otherwise I think you're asking for trouble!

Petvet - I'm doing fine. I'm thinking of emailing hubby and asking him if he wants to get together again (for possible divorce planning purposes). I want to make sure I word it just right strategically - but some decisions need to be made soon, if nothing else, about a few household goods (and possibly that never-ending yardwork, too).

EC - What's new with you? Enjoying the spring? Are Wallace and Petvet getting you to think about dating?

Leah - Haven't heard from you in a few days. Is everything OK? Anything new? I know you have a lot to think/pray on. Keep us posted. You can email me if you want at avondale25@aol.com.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/02/04 11:20 PM
This week has been crazy !!!!!!
I have started in real estate @ at the beach. That is going very well. People literally come in the door and almost beg for properties. The appreciation here is fantastic and everyone wants a peice. I like the people that I'm working with and we truly work as a team.

FWH is still up North putting closure to the business. OW has supposedly moved to Atlantic City so thank God she has not been around. She used to stalk the place but I guess she got the picture when no one returned any of her many phone calls and last time she saw us drive away with a uhaul full of stuff.

Yes Avondale, I still sail. We did winter races and now into the main season. Tomorrow will be my first race as I've been away. It's an addiction- but a great one, I can't wait till it's time to sail.

FWH came home December 21st. It has gone better than I thought it would. There are ups and downs and no Avondale, he's not going to a 12 step program but that will be addressed when he gets back. It was part of my conditions to come home. So far, he hasn't done it on his own and I decided to wait till he cut his ties up north. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The rejoice ministries daily emails really helped me along with MB. The time spent working on me has really paid off. The recovery is easier because of it, but at times frustrating because I want FWH to catch up to me - fast ! God is working on him and had been for a long time.

It's good to stop back and see names I reconize as I can't say that about other parts of this board. I think about you guys (and girls) from time to time. What happened to RElady? I just scanned this thread & didn't see her name.

D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/02/04 11:27 PM
Hi avondale,

I had a few moments at work to check in on the site, and I had to reply to your last post.

Thank you so much for the compliment... I wish I had the wisdom that all those people have... but I'm not even in the same league as they are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know something your right. I have posted that a number of times, and in my heart I know it's the right thing to do (wait for all the kids to go out on their own).

Also I think your right as well, as my G/F being somewhat manipulative as to the whole lets get "M" scenario.

In my heart... I think for success in this relationship that I am in right now... it is best to wait it out until the kids are all out and on their own. So all I have to do is convince my G/F that this is probably the best step to take for a long lasting relationship, without making her think I'm trying to get out of marrying her. She already thinks that I'm trying to not marry her... because I keep coming up with valid reasons why we should wait. When I propose them at first she doesn't like my ideas because she is all gungho on getting married... but when she follows along with my suggestions... she later realizes that they are working in both of our best interests.

I don't want to end up "D" ever again, and I want to make sure all the "T's are crossed and all the i's are dotted... before I take that step into "M" again.

I feel for you about the yard work. I'm still picking up from last years snow storm that we had over here. 52" of snow in a short period of time reaked havoc on all my trees.

Let us know, what your "H" decides after you send him your email.

Leah...

I hope you don't think I was being harsh with you in my last post to you.

Sometimes I come across that way... but in fact... I want to make sure you don't have to go through anymore pain in your "M". Nobody that is trying to save their "M" deserves that... and I just want you to be careful, and make sure you not setting yourself up for another fall.

Have a great weekend all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ April 02, 2004, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/03/04 01:34 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: I think you are ready to move on with your life; one way or the other. Am I correct?

Wallace: Yep, yep , yep. I have heard Dr. Laura make the statement you mentioned many many times. That's one of the things that buddy and I have talked about on several occasions. She has a girl who is 10. My kid is 7. Mixing families can be difficult. Everyone has their territory; not to mention dealing with the exs. My problem is I cannot vision being in one of those perpetual relationships that is going nowhere. I have always lost respect for older people dating five, ten, fifteen, twenty years or whatever length of time and not tying the knot. What bothers me about Dr. Laura statement is that she always criticizes folks who date for three or more years without getting married. I'm with you Wallace I don't want to end up in another divorce, but I don't want to be in a relationship that has no future either. I know I am not ready to get married. I want to make sure that all of my i's and t's are in order as well. Wallace, you and I have to think with our heads. When it's all said and done, we just might have to go it alone.

Leah: Don't be scared off! We mean no harm.

You know what has happen to Relady?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/04/04 06:05 AM
Petvet -
You said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have always lost respect for older people dating five, ten, fifteen, twenty years or whatever length of time and not tying the knot </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Define "older people", LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> You mean older like me?? Seeing as how my dad is now in this category, I have a little different perspective, but I do agree with you. He will not marry the woman he's living with because they would both lose so many financial & health-related benefits. Since they're in their 70's, I don't see a marriage in their future at all. Fortunately I really like her a lot, and their financial matters are kept totally separate.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When it's all said and done, we just might have to go it alone </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now that would be a total waste of all the MB principles y'all have learned! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Relady - I hope to see her, but she left and never returned, and didn't answer any emails I sent either.

Me - I'm ready to move on; however, I don't want to move on if it's not what God wants me to do. I realize at some point in the near future I'll have to take a step of at least contacting H about some things (probably next week), but I'm not going to take any BIG steps yet. I also want to talk to my pastor one more time, to make sure I have his backing.

<small>[ April 03, 2004, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/04/04 03:09 AM
Hi Gang..........


Wallace - Yes, time is on your side, You can never go wrong by being patient. Relationships are a process, build the foundation correctly on a rock, and it will stand the test of time. Build it on sand, soon it crumbles quickly.

Petvet - Yep, exw is at the starting point again, hopefully she'll do something great with her life. It's certainly a lifestyle of drama...


Avondale - You raised the question, am I ready to be like petvet and wallace and start dating?

Well, at this point I don't want to date because I haven't lived single yet, the guys here had a jump on me. You see I've been held in financial bondage, due to all the DV issues, and I will be loosed in about 2 months, yet, I will be debt free by the end of this year.

I've had a business project and many things on hold since 2002. The time of release is before me now. If I dated, it would only be a distraction for me. After being with someone for 21 years since I was 17 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , I'm not in no hurry for a relationship, I have some things I want to accomplish. Besides, If I were in a relationship like our lover boys here, and If a woman told me she loved me, I wouldn't believe her, I would take it as a setup' Those words have little meaning right now coming from someone other than family....I'm sure I'll heal and get over it...So our guys here are braver than me...

Maybe oneday when I have something worth taking a woman out in, something she don't have to get out and push on the date <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> then I might take somebody out for there B-day or something....nothing serious...Ok.I'm not poor, but my wealth days are before me, all women want to feel classy in a nice car on a date...When you're a teenager you're just happy to get out of the house, you don't care if they ride a bike <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ....

One of my downfalls in my past marriage was financial issues, next time around, if there's a next time around <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , I want to be able to provide everything alone, but yet share it all 50/50 and perform my role and stay in my lane,prior I did too much and only caused a person to be weakened....A woman knows how to run her house and turn it into a castle for her king when she has the money with all things operating in there proper place and order.....

That's why I still tell men today, " If your wife buys you a shirt, wear it,(even if you think its ugly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) because she must have had some vision that you look good in it, and a woman wants everybody to see her taste and style whether on her or her mate." So guys, suffer through it but, remember, at least she has her eyes on you and it makes her feel proud and needed.

WGTT - Glad to hear from you. I'm happy to see your reality business take of, oh what a joy, its going to be.

Leah - That link avondale posted is some good stuff. Question - Have you ever planned a mini getaway vacation with your H? or done something romantic of late and just to shock him?...

Take Care
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/05/04 02:35 AM
avondale </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Me - I'm ready to move on; however, I don't want to move on if it's not what God wants me to do. I realize at some point in the near future I'll have to take a step of at least contacting H about some things (probably next week), but I'm not going to take any BIG steps yet. I also want to talk to my pastor one more time, to make sure I have his backing.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Avondale, if you believe in standing for your marriage no matter what the situation looks like right now, then no one not even a pastor should sway you. Seek God on this one. Rejoice ministries helped me a lot. The daily emails began to sink in. I found them soon after MB.

There were times I was ready to call it quits as you know, but something always pulled me back (God) Today I am thankful for that (regardless of the final outcome) Through rejoice I have a better understanding of the whole picture.

When I read what you had written this daily email from 4-2-04 struck me - something to think about. Apparently just as we see similarities in MB, they do at rejoice as well.
- - - - -
Questions? The Steinkamp's books and tapes in the Rejoice Bookstore
are loaded with biblical answers from scripture http://stopdivorce.org
- - - - -

YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE! -

"At that time I will gather you; at that time I will bring you home.
I will give you honor and praise among all the peoples of the earth
when I restore your fortunes before your very eyes," says the Lord."
Zephaniah 3:20

You would not believe the messages that come to Pompano Beach each
week. As many of you know, we receive more email that the two of us
can possible answer personally. In addition to that, the post office
box is often full of letters and the fax machine stays busy. Each
Monday evening at Rejoice Pompano we hear reports in person, as well
as telephone messages all week. You would not believe what we hear.
Each week we hear that:

* Another mate has left for the far country.
* That relationship with a third person has been discovered.
* Someone has filed for divorce.
* A prodigal attempts to legalize adultery by "marrying" another.
* Someone has taken a stand with God for restoration of a marriage.
* Someone is up.
* Someone is down.
* Someone has great financial needs.
* A prodigal mate is in the far country living like royalty.
* A prodigal's own children are being ignored.
* A stander with a broken auto needs a job.
* A stander's needs are met in a way that could only be the Lord.
* A child is born in a prodigal's non-covenant relationship.
* A stander gives up and decides to "go on with life,"
* God has shaken a stander and they are back on track with Him.
* A stander is blessed by a church they thought did not understand.
* A stander or a family member is attacked by illness.
* A stander has a close relative come to the Lord.
* There has been a death in someone's family.
* The tape we sent arrived on exactly the right day.
* Someone stops standing (again).
* The Lord has given someone a glimpse of hope.
* Someone is back on the stander's track (again).
* Things look hopeless to a stander.
* Someone tells us, "It would take a miracle for mine to come home."
* A stander is angry because someone else's marriage is healed.
* Someone receives a miracle and it came through their prodigal.
* A stander has repented for the side trips they have taken.
* A family member or church leader has challenged the right to stand.
* God gave a stander the words and scripture to defend their stand.
* Hopeless and weary best describe someone's spiritual battle.
* God has used two separate means to confirm what He is doing.
* A stander realizes how much they, not their prodigal, have changed.
* Unconditional love has become a way of life for someone.
* A hurting prodigal reaches out for help.
* A stander finally understands real forgiveness.
* The prodigal's "friend" wants the prefix "boy" or "girl" added.
* Big guns of the enemy just about blow away a stander.
* A repentant prodigal spouse has suddenly come home!
* The Lord has touched a returned prodigal.

Yes, you would not believe what we hear. The comments above are the
most common. In fact, many of these were voiced by people who now
have a restored marriage. Each time we hear one of these, we are
encouraged that another marriage is on that often painful progression
toward healing. If a hand full or so of these sound just like you,
rejoice, for your marriage is on the way!

There is one other comment we hear from time to time; "My returned
prodigal died. I am so thankful that things were right with the Lord
and with our family, because I did not give up when it seemed that I
should."

If the one you love were to die today where would they spend eternity?
Our Mighty God has not given up, so why should you? A returned mate
coming to Jesus Christ, is what we want to hear about most of all.

"I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in
heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous
persons who do not need to repent." Luke 15:7

God bless,
Bob and Charlyne Steinkamp
Rejoice Marriage Ministries
Post Office Box 10548
Pompano Beach, Florida 33061
http://rejoiceministries.org
http://stopdivorce.org
http://rejoicenet.net

- - - - -
Share this message with someone who needs God's help in their life.
- - - - -
Books, tapes, and things to encourage men and women praying for God's
help in their marriage-Rejoice Marriage Ministries Restoration Store-
http://restorationstore.org
- - - - -
"God Heals Hurting Marriages" daily 5 minute radio broadcast -
http://oneplace.com/ministries/god_heals_hurting_marriages/
"Fight For Your Marriage" weekly 30 minute program -
http://oneplace.com/ministries/fight_for_your_marriage/
Easter story- http://rejoiceministries.org/rejoicenet/books/easter.asp
The best news - http://rejoiceministries.org/salvation.html
Court? - http://stopdivorce.org/index.php?viewItem=00216&viewCat=2
Add our link to your page- http://rejoiceministries.org/link2us.html
Share your prayer request- http://rejoiceministries.org/prayer.html
Share a praise report- http://rejoiceministries.org/testimony.html
- - - - -

D.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/05/04 01:29 PM
WGTT
Thanks for the reminder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I've gone to Rejoice Ministries before on numerous occasions.

To clarify a little bit of what I posted, because I do see how "ready to move on" could mean different things to different people, especially in the D/D forum : I have been fearful of saying anything to my H that could be misconstrued by him (in his fog and denial) and lead toward prompting him toward divorce. For example, I have not asked him to repair (or pay to have done) certain normal household maintenance things like fixing the leaky roof. My concern in doing so would be that he'd want to separate himself more fully from our home. I didn't tell him all the details about my cancer surgery so that he wouldn't want to separate himself more fully from me because of the stigma associated with that. So when I mean "talk to him" I mean just that - nothing more. I have walked on eggshells while waiting for him to come out of his fog (and even before, when he was still at home) and as time goes on, it becomes more difficult because some things just HAVE to be discussed. Do I want to say "when will you file" or "I can't take this anymore"? No, I absolutely will not bring up anything that would promote divorce! In fact, when we last spoke (8 weeks ago) I reminded him that I wanted our marriage to be restored and that also I would NOT be the one to initiate divorce. Knowing me as he does, he acknowledged that, too. I have studiously avoided talking to him about almost everything, divorce-related AND otherwise. There are just some practical matters that just can't wait any longer - I may need to move, for instance.
But again, I really do appreciate you reminding me about Rejoice, and that list was a "get real" moment for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I bet Leah will appreciate it too, when she gets back.

<small>[ April 05, 2004, 08:59 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/06/04 05:53 AM
Hi all!

EC: You are right. The loverboys need to take their time before jumping the broom. One's ducks need to be in a row.

Avondale: I like your frame of mind.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/06/04 11:40 AM
Petvet -What are you doing online at 2:00 AM ? Never mind, we're glad anytime you post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I sure hope I didn't scare Leah away. I apologize to her and everybody else if I did.

Does everyone have Easter plans for this weekend? I still have an extra seat at my house for lunch. Actually, if you don't want to sit at the table I can accommodate even more. Y'all come visit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It's beautiful in the south this time of year.

<small>[ April 06, 2004, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/07/04 03:20 AM
avondale I did the same thing - not say much to FWH. Slowly I began to give it to God, since FWH wasn't doing it, and little by little things began to get done around the house. When FWH would come home, he noticed what was going on and I think surprised that it had been done or bought and I never said a word to him.

Before FWH came home, we had the most honest conversation in years. Apparantly he had noticed changes in me for a LONG time but nver said a word. He began to call me on Friday evenings when I was out (at a 12 step meeting) but I just said I was in Destin (the beach area) which was true. The sailing part got to him too. He told me that he thought I was having an A and when I started sailing, he knew it was true. (WRONG - I wasn't and very glad that I did not) He wanted to come home a year and a half before he did. A year and a half!

My prayer warriors prayed that God would put strong Christians in his life. And HE did. I even met one of them last month when I was up there helping close down the business. What a blessing. It was like we were instant friends.

This is really pretty bizarre - last summer I got a call from OW1 saying that she heard that I thought they had gotten back together and it wasn't true. She had lost her husband probably 10 years ago & said her kids would do anything to have thier Dad back. I said my kids too and so would I. It was a hard conversation but a really good one. She told me that she had not been a friend but that she would be now. (I knew her - old HS friend of FWH) After that conversation she got completely out of the picture. I think she had been waiting for FWH to drop OW2 so she could be with him.

Each day I pray for my husband and all the prodigals. Just before FWH came home god had given me the scripture about the prodigal son. He also gave me one about restoration. God is good.

Recently I met a woman in alanon that has gone through what I have, it about the same place with her walk with Christ as I am. It was amazing, we were in tears listening to each other. I would relate an experience to her & she had been there too. And vice versa.

D.

<small>[ April 06, 2004, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 04/08/04 04:23 PM
Hello All,

I'm so sorry I haven't been able to check in until now. My husband had another setback and has been sick at home until today. I try to not be on the computer when he is home. He likes lots of attention and he doesn't feel I'm being productive when I'm on the computer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
He finally was feeling well enough to try work for a few hours so I ran to the computer to see how you all were doing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WALLACE and AVONDALE,

Neither of you ever need fear scaring me off. I always love reading here and learning anything I can.I truly appreciate your comments and suggestions. I value honest critism too. Sometimes you need an outside source to point out things you just can't see for yourself.

Wallace, I agree with you about trust needing to be earned. I want so much to believe him and trust him again. He understands how I feel about it and he realizes that he has damaged trust repeatedly. He feels he is currently doing all he can to rebuild trust. I just tell him time will tell.

Avondale, I read the link you gave on rules for rebuilding. It was very good. I wrote them all down. Yes, I have read parts of the book "Surviving An Affair". I thought it was excellent. I'm not sure exactly where we were with each other when I read it. It's been a long time. I'm thinking we were together so I was doing Plan A without knowing it.

I also liked your suggestion about consulting with the Harleys. I'm giving serious consideration to that. I'll let you know what happens if we talk.

Have you set up a meeting with your husband yet? I will pray that all goes well if you can talk. I know in the earlier times of my husband and I meeting, I would always pray my way thru every conversation. I would always ask God to guide each word so that things would be communicated correctly. Those conversations can be so critical towards the healing process.

WGTT

Thanks for sharing the Rejoice e-mail. It was encouraging. I hope things continue to go well for you and your husband.

PETVET

Yes, I agree with you and WALLACE about the path of deception that tends to happen with WS. It's very sad. In the beginning of our marriage, I had absolute trust and faith in my husband. I still can't believe it's come to the point it now is. I believe the only true hope for restoration would be a return to his faith. It would only be then that we could have a relationship with integrity and trust.

You both are wise to continue to be careful re: the timing of remarriage. I have seen several second marriages end because of conflicts with step-children, usually teenagers. That can be such a challenge. YET, I certainly appreciate the dilema of not wanting to date forever. I've thought about that in my situation if it should ever come to that. That would be difficult.

EC,

You asked about vacations and romantic stuff... With hubby being so sick we're doing good to just be in the same bed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm hoping once he gets caught up at work that maybe we could have a weekend away. We're definitely overdue. It would be great if he were interested. That's been part of the problem though. He just hasn't had much interest in me that way. I'm hoping that things will turn around someday.

Do you all have Easter plans? We were going to visit my sister and family but I'm not sure now because of my husbands illness. Have a wonderful Easter as we celebrate a Risen Savior!!! He is our HOPE! God bless!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/08/04 09:00 PM
Leah ,
It's soooo good to hear from you! I was worried. It's sad you don't feel liberty to get on the computer at home. But you were definitely missed here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, my news is that after I posted about talking to hubby, then WGTT posted her thoughts, I have felt a "gut feeling" to NOT do or say anything at this time. I'm not sure why, just have a "check in my soul" at this time. Perhaps it was the timing of WGTT's post, perhaps because once again, I have the best looking front yard on the block and I'd hate the thought of moving to a new neighborhood, perhaps because I just feel I can wait a little longer, so why not? Anyway, I'm not going to contact hubby at this point. This is a little scary, to be honest. But it's out of my hands, right? He will have to initiate contact. (Until I get antsy again, LOL)

Wallace, EC, Petvet - Hope you guys have a wonderful Easter. Thanks for being here for me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ April 08, 2004, 04:03 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/08/04 10:11 PM
Hi All,

Well I have had a pretty exciting weekend and week so far.

My G/F's birthday was this past Saturday. So I took all of her kids and myself, OS, and YD to dinner for her birthday. Then we had cake and ice cream and opened presents that everyone got her, at her house.

Then I went in for surgery this past Tuesday to have an aggrevated lymph node removed from neck. So now I have a nice scar going down the side of my neck. The tests came back on it from pathology, and it's benign... so that's a real scare that I don't have to worry about.

I have 3 other Birthdays this month not counting Easter... so it's a busy month.

WGTT...

It's so good to hear that the Lord is working in your "H's" and your life. You have made great strides in your life to get to this point... keep up the good work... and don't change a thing... it sounds like it will all work itself out in a positive direction.

avondale...

I would go with your gut feel, and just wait this out and see what if anything your "H's" next move may be. I wouldn't rush anything unless you really feel the need. I know I am not in any real hurry to sell my house... the grass and the yard work await me, and it sounds like you as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Leah...

Sorry to hear that your "H" had a set back concerning his illness. I still think this is a great time for the two of you to really communicate and get things put back into perspective. I'm also glad to hear that I didn't scare you away.

Petvet...

avondale brings up a good point! You "are" keeping some late hours. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

EC...

What's the status of you visting your YD on her graduation? My YD graduates May 14th of this year... and she is planning on going to College in September.


Well I hope everyone has a good Easter. Myself and my Kids, minus my OD are having Easter dinner over at my G/F's house. Nothing big... just a nice quiet family dinner for all of us to count our blessing and thank the Lord for all that he has done.

Have a great day all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ April 08, 2004, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: MMQ Re: Tough Love - 04/09/04 09:48 PM
Gentlepeople,
Well, I couldn't wait anymore. I’ve been reading this thread for over 10 days now and I finally got to the day that my husband walked out on a 27 year old marriage. That was 12-22-02, page 63.
My story and questions are posted in Divorcing, Plan B and Emotional Needs. A quick update is that I have responded to his filing of papers. He wants sole custody of our 10 yo S. He has another woman and will be taking her to NYC in a week. He still hasn’t told his family that he’s taking her. His family (mother, nephews, son & daughter from previous marriage) is sticking by his side and want nothing to do with me. Our 21yo S has advised me to ‘move on’.
I have been working on myself, that is and will continue to be a life long goal. I just can’t help but think that H and I were meant to be together. He is definitely in a fog nowadays. Today is his birthday and YS wanted to spend the day with him. When I called this morning to find out how YS was doing (he has all the symptoms of appendicitis) H said You’ll be picking him up later? I said that we had agreed that YS wanted to spend the day with him. He said, Yeah we are spending the day together, but I have no plans for him tonight. Discussions like this abound and they really do get me down.
I’m at work now trying to clean up my classroom for visitors on Mon. and Tues. However, I can’t get moving, all I think about is my impending divorce. It is taking its toll on me.
I’m going back to work now.
Love, Peace & Justice
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 04/09/04 11:41 PM
Hello All,

MMQ,
Welcome to the thread! I had to smile at your having to post once you got to page 63. That's just about as far as I got when I decided to jump in.
I hope your son is okay. Did he end up having appendicitis? I'm sorry about your marital situation. It sounds as if your husband is definitely in a fog. Things really can change around as far as thats concerned. It can take some time though. Hang in there. Hope things change in a positive way for you.

WALLACE,
I'm glad to hear your growth was benign. Thank the Lord for that. It sounds as if you have some nice Easter plans. I hope you all enjoy a great time together.

AVONDALE,
It's nice to be back. Thanks for caring. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think you're doing the right thing by waiting to speak to your husband. Just continue following your instints and praying your way through it all. God will lead you as you seek His direction.

I hope you have a nice Easter weekend. Are you having dinner with family and or friends? I'm trying to remember whether you have children nearby. I hope you are able to be with them. How many children do you have? Do you have a good support system at your church or with others? I hope you do. That can make all the difference.

I'm just hanging out at home with my girls right now. My husband is back at work, working some overtime to makeup for his absense. One way or the other, it seems I'm always without him. (Travelling, Working, Racing, Sick, Others...) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Sometimes I just get plain lonely. I have to really fight the discouragement. Sorry I'm being such a whiner. Kinda down tonight.

PETVET,EC,WGTT

Hope you are all doing well and enjoying your weekend. Keep looking up and I'll try to do the same. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/11/04 12:51 AM
MMQ
Welcome! You’ve read for ten days, huh? I’ve done some homework about you, and read several of your posts on other threads. I noticed in the “Am I Doing the Right Thing?” thread that the only replies you got were from members who were as new or newer to you here at MB. Sometimes that can be dangerous. Always take everything you hear and think on it, decide how, if any of it, applies to your personal situation. I have noticed quite a few people here are very quick to reply and give opinions, but they have very little experience as to the effect their replies might take in the long run.

If I may make a few observations from your other threads...you weren’t in Plan A very long at all (about a month?). Do you want to stall the divorce, in order to try to work on your marriage and prolong Plan A? Or will you let your H make the game plan that will affect your life? Which scenario gives you more peace? (I know peace is a short commodity right now for you.) Have you tried to get him to at least take it slow? What reasons does he give for the big rush? Is he going to marry OW immediately??

Your H has said he won’t go to counseling. Here at MB, the counselors have a ploy that worked on my H to at least get him to talk to them. It was the “have your H call us (Harleys) so we can get his perspective, in order to counsel you, Avondale”. I was skeptical, but H did call, it didn’t cost him (I paid for it in advance w/o his knowledge) and the Harleys are very skilled at talking to WS in fog. I say this for your consideration, it might be worth a shot.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> MMQ wrote: He has another woman and will be taking her to NYC in a week </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I remember when I knew my husband was counting the days to be with OW in NYC. It sucks <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Our 21yo S has advised me to ‘move on’
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My advice is to not let your older son dictate your life. You do what YOU feel comfortable with. If that is NOT moving on, then fine, don’t. Young adults have such “cavalier” view of life sometimes.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just can’t help but think that H and I were meant to be together. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That’s what I keep thinking too, about me. What is your gut feeling based on?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> MMQ's hubby said: He said, Yeah we are spending the day together, but I have no plans for him tonight. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder if this is because he was planning on staying with OW that night, and son would be in the way?? Will this be a glimpse of future behavior?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> all I think about is my impending divorce. It is taking its toll on me </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this. Let us know if there’s anything we can do for you. Have you seen a lawyer for yourself yet?

Leah
I'm having both my kids (daughter & hubby live nearby, and son is in town for a few days) plus several young adults w/o families from church over for lunch after church. Nine or ten people altogether. Of course I'm doing most of the cooking but I don't mind, it's good to have a house full of life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> And yes, my church friends/family have been the absolute best support system I could hope for. Happy Easter!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/11/04 01:36 AM
Hi Gang......

Hope everyone is having a great weekend.

MMQ - Welcome to the thread. I'm sorry to see you go through the DV, this is just my opinion and long, but personally I don't see it as just an ending of something but a blessed new beginning for you. Sometimes we want things better in our life but according to our own plans and ways, but God has another way that " The end shall speak louder than the beginning " meaning you may feel loss now but the revealing of what you will gain will out shine where you are in time

While it appears your H is moving on and forward, (trust me, he's not) you feel left behind and worthless since he has OW.

I read some info from a previous post to gain some history about your story. Despite what issues you have, despite what you will and are overcoming, keep those things up. One of the most hardest blows is when the WS tells you everything they don't like about, your personality, your physical body, your character, habits, etc.... However as painful as they are, you can use those to your advantage. Take those insults as building tools for you. Pitch the WS talk stuff as I love you, not in love with you junk, we're not compatible, etc..There's a long list of the lies they say, don't believe it...It don&#8217;t take 7, 10, 15 or 27 years to find this out!!

Once you build on you and get it together, it leaves them speechless and confused of why they left.....But as long as you remain the same, you look unappealing you further validate why they left in the first place.....

At this point what you had previous dead, because OW is now there...You can't go back and relive the old relationship, but you can create an all new you and reveal what you have to offer to him over time. All relationships as long as yours (27yrs)go through changes, its normal....A restore is not impossible over time...

Your H's new relationship will most likely fail because he never worked on him, trust me, he has baggage too, but he feels on top of the world right now, having his love bank filled, its like a drug, but it will wear down over time, and reality will set in, we're all human...However don't get stuck where they are.

As far as the DV papers and proceeding, agree with him, resisting only makes it worst for you, take your attorneys advice, but don't be left in unbearable debt and taken advantage of. This is no way giving up, this no way not standing, this is not letting go completely, this is only moving all the negative issues to a resolve...if there are financial issues and time would be on your side, then stall, but don't resist....

Take your Sons advice and start moving on with your life, Why? Because most WS's are fearful of the BS moving on, they want OM/OW but also there security person too,(there spouse), they are still jealous for you, but will not say. When they see that you don't need them and remain a mystery, there insecurity flares....Plan B

Most WS's are very cowardly people that can't express themselves, they choose to run from resolve and processes...They blame other people for there inner issues and don't take responsibility. When they feel pain, they have to find an affair, alcohol, outside sex to ease the pain and it's an endless cycle until they decide to face themselves....Rather than feel pain and choose to be made whole as an individual, they search for something or somebody to validate them in a damaging way..The affairs feel sweet at the start, but the end is internally bitter....

This is an article faithhopelove04 posted Isaw on a thread, but I didn't post the whole thing because it would be too long:

Here are some quotes from the book, "Love Must Be Tough" by James Dobson

"...a rejected man or woman often reacts in ways that make matters worse. Just as a drowning person exhausts himself in a desperate attempt to grasp anything that floats, including his rescuer, the panic-stricken lover typically tries to grab and hold the one who is trying to escape. I have witnessed the scenario a thousand times. Supercharged emotions zip up and down a roller coaster of extremes." p.24

"Though I understand the compulsion that drives Faye to plead for Joe's attention and love, she is systematically destroying the last glimmer of hope for reconciliation. She has stripped herself of all dignity and self-respect, crawling on her belly like a subservient puppy before her master. The more Joe insults her and spurns her advances, the more intensely she seems to want and need him. That is, in fact, the way the system works. The message Faye is giving her husband can be summarized thus, 'Oh Joe, I need you so badly. I can't make it without you. I spend my days waiting for you to call and I'm, crushed when the phone doesen't ring. Won't you please, please let me talk to you occasionally? You see, Joe, I'll take you any way I can have you, even if you want to walk all over me. I am desperate here without you.'

Linda and Faye have brought us now to an extremely important and well-known principle of human relationships: panic often leads to appeasement, which is virtually never successful in seeking to control the behavior of others. In fact it often leads directly to war..." p.27,27

"It has been my observation that the lust for forbidden fruit is often incidental to the real cause of marital decay. Long before any decision id made to fool around or walk out on a partner, something basic has begun to change in the relationship...the critical element is the way one spouse begins to perceive the other and their lives together. It is a subtle thing at first, often occurring without either partner being aware of the slippage. But as time passes, one individual begins to feel trapped. That's the keyword, trapped." p.36

"We return now to the question with which we began: What can be done to preserve these marriages...? The answer requires the vulnerable spouse to open the cage door and let the trapped partner out! All the techniques of containment must end immediately, including manipulative grief, anger, guilt, and appeasement. Begging, pleading, hand-wringing, and playing the role of the doormat are equally as destructive...To the reader desperately in need of this advice, please pay close attention at this point: I'm sure you would not have dreamed of using these coercive methods to convince your husband or wife to marry you during your dating days. You had to lure, attract, charm, encourage him or her...Could you imagine what would have happened (if you had done that)...it is very difficult to love someone romantically and pity him or her at the same time...(these tactics) are only increasing the depth of disrespect by the one who is escaping."

There are 3 reactions Dobson says are the most common when the BS lets go:

"1. The trapped partner no longer feels it necessary to fight off the other, and the relationship improves. It is not that the love affair is rekindles, but the strain between the two partners is often eased."
"2. As the cool spouse begins to feel free again, the question he has been asking himself changes. After having wondered for weeks or months, 'How can I get out of this mess?' He now asks, 'Do I really want to go?' Just knowing that he can have his way often makes him less anxious to achieve it. Sometimes it turns him around 180 degrees and brings him back home."

I didnt list the 3rd, too long

Anyway, everything is going to be ok, life is not over in no form or fashion...Greater days are ahead....Take Care
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/11/04 03:15 AM
leah

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also liked your suggestion about consulting with the Harleys. I'm giving serious consideration to that. I'll let you know what happens if we talk.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would second talking to the Harleys. They helped me when I was at crossroads (more than once), gave direction to my scattered thoughts, helped me to see what was really important, helped me come up with a plan that felt good.
You won't regret talking to them.

avondale There are no co-incidents. There is an Easter Story on the rejoice website that you may want to read.

[B]Happy Easter to all![/D.B]
Posted By: MMQ Re: Tough Love - 04/11/04 06:36 AM
Gentlepeople,
Thank you for your welcome. I really need you guys tonight.
As I mentioned in my previous post I am having to clean my classroom for visits on Monday and Tuesday. Well, I was there early this morning with my YS. (By the way he is doing fine. It seems it may have been a virus after all. H will be doing a follow-up appointment next week. The intestinal pain is still there.) We were listening to the radio and an "oldie but moldie" came on that triggered a mild teary breakdown in me. YS was alarmed (I haven’t cried so easily in a while). He gave me a big hug and started saying how it would be so much easier if his father was dead, then it wouldn’t hurt so much. Well my breakdown triggered his own and he kept on talking about how he should had said he hated the OW when his dad asked what he thought of her. Now the devastating piece of news is that his happened on 12/24/02, two days after H had moved out. So I guess this is the real Discovery Day.
I was clearly left staggering after the news, YS was so sorry. However, we had not talked for a while and as it turned out he has been figuring things on his own and is really feeling betrayed. For instance, he remembers waking up in the apartment (June 03) and getting up to get a glass of water and noticing the OW shoes by the couch and hearing his father and OW laughing from the bedroom. He wishes he had interrupted them. He remembered two birthday parties (July 03) OW was at. He said it was his father that asked OW, her son and son’s friend to spend the night on New Year’s Eve. He asked me if he should talk to his dad about all of this. I said he definitely should, but that maybe he should wait until we started going to counseling and he practiced some I-messages or something else the counselor would recommend. (We were supposed to start two weeks ago but the counselor was ill and then the center was closed for spring break. We don’t have an appointment now until next week.)
I calmed us both down and sent him out to play. I called H and asked him point blank to tell me about his relationship with OW. Of course he refused, saying it was none of my business. He reiterated about our relationship being over, and that I had everything to blame for our split up, and that he wouldn’t go to another woman so soon after our separation. WHAT A LIAR!
So I guess today was the real Discovery Day. He does not consider an EA to be an affair. And the PA is justifiable since in his mind "we are divorced already".
I have been thinking about this all day. I’ve counted seven EAs that I know of. I need to reread all the infidelity information. I never really thought that infidelity had been one of our problems. All these years I have blamed myself and my weaknesses for our problems. I AM FURIOUS!
But I’m also so calm. I know that this will all come out in court. I know that he will not be awarded sole custody. I know I am a good person.
I did yell once during our conversation today. He said that I was dragging the divorce. I said that was a lie. He had filed with absurd demands and I had responded. How could that be misconstrued as dragging the process?
I told him that I felt that we needed to talk to somebody to learn how to end this marriage, so that we could continue to really talk to one another. Bottom line - our YS doesn’t need to suffer unnecessarily. He agreed and will let me know next week when a good day and time would be. However, my last words to him were, This is so sad. How do you sleep at night knowing that what you’re doing is not only illegal, but also immoral? He hung up at that.
Well, that’s all of it. So much for Plan A. I felt I had been in Plan A since the beginning of the separation.
The last year and a half of our marriage he had withdrawn and I had withdrawn into myself so as not to fall back on alcohol and cigarettes.
Can this marriage be saved?
Posted By: Jarod_Wynde Re: Tough Love - 04/11/04 07:41 AM
I just spent the last hour reading this thread... good information. Very good information.

Thank God I found this site.
I ask everyone that believes to pray for my marriage.

peace, love, and tight corners...
a troubled car fanatic,
-Jarod
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/11/04 10:25 AM
MMQ
Hugs from me, I’m so sorry that you’ve experienced another Dday. This is not uncommon though. Yes, you should definitely re-read everything here, through the eye of one whose spouse is having an affair
What state do you live in? Have you contacted a lawyer?

While it may appear that Everlasting Compassion (EC) and I gave you conflicting advice, actually that’s not the case. His advice was very sound, once divorce becomes imminent. It IS a new beginning and a chance to change yourself for the better, and restore some self-worth. My advice was geared more for where you are at now, not yet convinced divorce is going to occur. But at some point, you may switch from one stage to the next, and you can determine the right time.

Will you be in the counseling appointments with your son? If so, you may want to take notes as dates and things involving OW are revealed (for possible legal case). Will your H be in those same appointments? If so, your son may not feel comfortable and not talk as openly. I’m glad his sickness doesn’t appear to be as serious as you had thought.

Jarod Wynde - only an hour? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> LOL You’re right, the MB site has tons of great info.

WGTT - Thanks for the “heads up”, I’m going to Rejoice site now.

I just had to come back and post something after reading at the Rejoice site. I had been concerned about having not revealed H's affair when it happened. (Only our families and a few close friends knew.) Some books say (and ppl at MB sometimes post) that it should be brought to the light of day and told. In fact, some seem to take delight in it! It's something I've sometimes regretted not doing, especially regarding his work, so he would have the full impact (shame) of what he's done. But after reading this morning, I won't wonder anymore. I told who I felt comfortable telling, and my thought (at that time) was to cover H to some extent so he can (hopefully)return more easily to God and our marriage. Anyway, no regrets here, I am glad I handled it the way I did for our situation.

<small>[ April 11, 2004, 05:39 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: MMQ Re: Tough Love - 04/11/04 01:28 PM
Gentlepeople,
I decided to post before I started my busy day. I also wanted to try to respond to you individually, as is the norm on this thread.

Leah2be
Thank you for the warm welcome. I understand about not being on the computer when H is around. I’ve been there with that situation. And I’m sorry you still can feel lonely.

Avondale25
Thank you for your provocative observations and questions. I never realized that only new MBers had been answering my posts. It does make a difference who you get your advice from.
I believe I have been in Plan A since the very beginning of this ordeal. I have consistently been nice, pleasant, considerate and (to my way of thinking) alluring. Since the separation I have had a nagging feeling that the weight I’ve put on, the spending (which I don’t do any longer), the (still) messy house were all excuses and masks for something deeper. Now I know I was correct.
I cannot stall the divorce process. I did tell H I did not want the D, but he filed anyway. I was forced to respond to this filing within 30 days, which I have done. I live in a community property state (NM), so I know some things will be a given unless there is a prearrangement by the spouses. (I have no lawyer yet. I have a lead on three barracudas, but I haven’t spoken to them yet.) The response I did was with the help of a lawyer during our 30-minute free consultation. I’ve also been online to the law school and printed out all the divorce forms. I will continue to write them up "my way".
I can only guess that he wanted to clear his conscience for the NYC trip. (Does a WS have a conscience? Must be an oxymoron.) I have no idea what his plans are with OW. All I am certain of is that there is nowhere in NYC that he can go and not be reminded of me. We have had many good times together. Lately our most intimate conversations have concerned our sons.
I will call the Harleys; I need to save some money first. I need to establish a Plan (C?). I’m thinking that this trip that he is going on will be an important crossroad for both of us. Maybe I should write the Plan B letter before he leaves and continue from there.
My OS’s statement of "moving on" is in reality a Plan A (or is it B?). He wants me to work on my issues and myself. He is hurt by what is going on, and doesn’t want me to wallow in misery.
Avondale25, there can be no doubt that H wanted to be with OW for his birthday. And of course he was.
Counseling with YS will be for him and I only. We will be seeing my IC. H did say he would attend counseling for YS if asked.

Everlasting Compassion
Thank you so much for your support. A new beginning, a new relationship with my H is all I want. It bothers me that H thinks I want to go back to the way things were. And, it breaks my heart that I was so self-absorbed at the end that I didn’t even notice his waywardness. This must hurt him deeply.
I have tried to ignore the WS talk. Reading this thread has amazed me. How could all the WSs sound so much alike? The WS phenomenon cuts across gender, social, cultural, and class differences doesn’t it?
I am calm now. I can move on and work on myself because I know now that H was in a fog since the beginning.
EC - All relationships as long as yours (27yrs) go through changes, its normal.... A restore is not impossible over time.
From your lips to God’s ear. I pray for this every day.
You are correct in stating that H hasn’t worked on himself at all. H still only blames me for our "failure".
Thank you for the Tough Love quotes. I finally received the book last week, so I’ll be busy reading it.

Will Get Thru This
I am definitely thinking I have to talk to the Harleys.

Jarod Wynde
Welcome to the thread. I’ve been reading for 11 days now. I’m up to page 71!

Thank you all. I truly appreciate your input.
Love, Peace & Justice
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/11/04 02:07 PM
Avondale - Hows it going bud? We must have crossed posted earlier. What you posted was good for MMQ because you guys are in the same place. I find no conflicts, you did good. As for me, I was forced to fill out the paper work for DV and it hurt me more to resist and even the court turned there nose at me on it, exw used it as fuel to the fire.....I only say move on(but don't give up, but prepare for the future) and don't resist because, you got to move out the way and pray and let God handle the mess. The word says:

Stand not in the way of sinners, nor in the seat of the scornful..

Pride goeth before destruction and haughty spirit before a fall.

The WS's are on a path of a dead end, when we move out the way ,it allows them to crash and burn with OW/OM....

MMQ- Stay strong and keep working on you, one day you'll look back and be proud of yourself. You're still attractive to your husband, Plan A works wonders along with prayer....

Welcome Jared - Wow, lots of reading you have before you...

Me - I forgot to answer earlier questions. Yep, YD graduation is in May. Yes, I am apprehensive, I don't know what to expect. This will be my first time having to see exww with OM. I feel somewhat detached from the whole issue, but then again, I haven't seen exww since 2001 and I don't what my reaction will be....Maybe she'll be a stranger to me since its like she's a gutted person from what I used to know...I'm praying it don't feel like d-day all over again, her whole plan was to try and destroy me so I'm guarding my heart. I 'll be excited to see YD....OD may ignore again like I never existed, who knows....but I'll make it, this will be closing a door for me...

Take Care
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/11/04 10:43 PM
avondale </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just had to come back and post something after reading at the Rejoice site. I had been concerned about having not revealed H's affair when it happened. (Only our families and a few close friends knew.) Some books say (and ppl at MB sometimes post) that it should be brought to the light of day and told. In fact, some seem to take delight in it! It's something I've sometimes regretted not doing, especially regarding his work, so he would have the full impact (shame) of what he's done. But after reading this morning, I won't wonder anymore. I told who I felt comfortable telling, and my thought (at that time) was to cover H to some extent so he can (hopefully)return more easily to God and our marriage. Anyway, no regrets here, I am glad I handled it the way I did for our situation.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Avondale, I felt the same way that you did. I told some that were close to me but for the most part didn't tell about the A. I never denied having problems but left it at that.

For a while I was unsure if I should or not so posted the question on the recovery board to see what they had done. surprisingly most did not make it public knowlege nor tell too many!!!
I asked Steve Harley about this in one of my sessions & he said that many don't tell because they don't want the WS to feel bad when they come home, and there was less to get over.

In my case, Steve suggested that I not "tell" untill I decided to seek a legal separation or divorce, then to tell those who need to know why I was filing to put pressure on WH (now FWH)

God held me back to from telling those who wouldn't need to know. Only a few prayer buddies and those friends in 12 step programs (who most of them had experienced an A either as WS, BS or both)

My prayer life began to change. I found myself praying for my then WH - for his salvation. I would hear " If I don't pray for him, who will?" As I became more obedient, God gave me more to pray about. It was wierd, but there would be times that I would feel an intense need to pray and if ignored it, would get nudged harder. Who knows but God what I was praying for. It would be interesting if FWH kept a journal like I had (doubtful) to see what was going on at the time.

OW did keep a journal on and off & I saw one of them when we were cleaning out the business. There were things I had suspected which proved to be true. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> OW also wrote that basically she know she was LB'g (didn't call it that) by pressuring FWH to get a DV so they could get M. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> She tried to form a cocoon around him, chased away all of his friends, so she could "have" him. The more she pressured, the more FWH began to look towards me.

During this time, I got on with my life. Did a version of Tough Love and Divorce Busters 180 while doing a modified plan B. FWH began to see a woman at peace, one who enjoyed life. At first I was faking it, just going through the motions.

Whoa, i got off on a tangent there. I guess so that otheres can see that it is possible to restore your marriage, and mine was certainly one that looked DEAD, very dead from my perspective. Then just as things looked the darkest, they changed almost in an instant.

When I get a chance, i'll post my separation letter - again a combination from Tough Love and MB.

HAPPY EASTER <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

D.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 04/11/04 11:29 PM
Happy Easter to all!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I ended up staying home a few days before going to visit my sister with my girls. I had my brother and his family over for dinner after church. It was a nice day!

Jarod

Welcome to the thread. I will pray for your marriage as I do for many others on this board. Keep reading and posting. There's much to learn here.

EC

I hope your visit with your YD goes well. Hopefully, it will be the time of closure that you seek.

Thanks for all that you posted re: tough love. I've read the book, but it's good to see reminders. I guess I'm still trying to figure out when to apply "tough love" verses unconditional love and grace. I feel like I'm in such a weird place in my marriage. I guess I can look back at the past five years and wish I had done things so differently. I feel like maybe I extended too much love without any of the "toughness" and now it's all backfired on me. But, it's done now and I'm still trying to figure the right path to take. Thanks for your help.

MMQ

I'm so sorry for the pain you are now experiencing. So much of it sounds so familiar. My husband was back and forth between the OW and me for a long time. He ended up travelling to Florida to spend his birthday with her. Ouch. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Such a terrible time. The girls were so hurt, not understanding why Daddy wouldn't be with us to have his party. I'm so thankful those days are behind us.

I know it's hard to imagine now, but your husband could eventually do a 180 and come to see OW with very different eyes. It took a long time for my H but he now regards her very differently.

Keep looking up and doing all you can to be the best person you can be. Use this time to grow and learn. I know as difficult as the past five years have been, they have been a great catalyst to change in my life. I believe God has used the difficult times to change me in a positive way. Hang in there. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

WGTT

I definitely will try to set something up with the Harleys after Spring Break. It is good to read how God has worked so powerfully in your situation. I'm still hoping and praying for a miracle here. Sometimes I have to pray for a faith infusion. It can be such a long wait. I want to keep believing and trusting God to do what only He can do. Meanwhile, I know I have to keep focused on the right things. Focusing on my h or our m can be very discouraging right now. So I need to keep looking up and moving forward. I hope you and your husband continue moving closer to God and each other.

AVONDALE

I hope you enjoyed a wonderful Easter with your family. I always enjoy reading all your post to various people. You are an encourager. Keep looking up!

WALLACE and PETVET

Hope you both enjoyed a great Easter with your family and lady friends. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Take care.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/12/04 03:19 AM
grrrrrrr,

I just spent a good amount of time cutting and pasting from different pages of this thread and now it's gone!!!!

Too tired right now to go back

Good night!

D.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/12/04 02:23 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: I routinely put i late late nights especially if I cannot sleep. I know for a fact that I will be putting in a couple of late nights the next couple of days. Are you afraid to press your H on the D issue rather just let the situation take care of itself?

Wallace: I hope you are feeling OK now after your surgery. You do have a busy month. I am busy as well.

Leah: Continue praying.

Jarod: Welcome! There are good folks on this thread.

MMQ: Welcome! I hate you have to go through the WS mess. Your WH wants to get the D over with because he knows that he is doing wrong and thinks that if you are gone, he can get on with his new enchanted life. Also, he thinks that he has an advantage over you legally. NOT! For his arrogance, tell him to jump in a piranah infested lake. Sorry, Sorry, Sorry! I got carried away.If you can, see whether you can get him in on a session with the Harley's. Please protect yourself. Have you tried Plan B?

Me: I had a good holiday. I took kid to the beach and he got baptized over the weekend.

And I'm gone.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/13/04 07:56 PM
Wallace - I know what you mean about the unexpected scar! I’m glad it’s benign, though. Perhaps it adds to your “rakish, boyish” charm. I can’t say the same about my scar, however! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> We have lots of family birthdays in April too. I’m curious, did you invite your OD at all, or are you leaving her out of family gatherings for now? I guess she’s still living with her b/f ?

EC - I think you’ll do fine when you go to your YD graduation. Do you have relatives to stay with there, or will you be in a hotel? Would it make you feel better if you were accompanied by a hot chic or something? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <spew coffee on screen here> LOL It shouldn’t. You are a great guy with nothing holding you back from all the wonderful things God has to offer. Do you plan to explain anything about CS payments to your daughters when you see them? I know there were some conflicts and confusion arising from their mother mis-using that money.

Petvet - Did your son get baptized AT the beach? I hope the water was warm enough. Take care of yourself over the next few days with tax crunch season - it’s almost over.

WGTT - Thanks for the encouragement. Are you posting on the Recovery Board too? If you post your separation letter there, let me know, I’ll go over and look at it.

Leah - We all know you’re in a tough place. What would happen (what would H think) if you brought up the “emotional needs” questionnaire as a non-partisan way of working through some things? The Harleys might suggest this, so be familiar with the questionnaire yourself before calling them. I’m glad you had a nice Easter. I hope you have a good week.

MMQ - Has your son had his counseling appointment yet? How did it go? Have you had time to read the Tough Love book yet?
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/13/04 11:33 PM
Hi All.....


Just passing through, not much going on....

Wallace - Hows it going are up and about? Hey there was a post by the name of HumbleOne that sounded so much like your past marriage. It was weird, it was almost like seeing your path had you stayed with your WW. My heart goes out to him.

Petvet - Glad to hear from you. Whats your relationship like these days? Anything you would have done different?

Avondale - On the CS issue. I don't think I'll touch that until they come here in the summer. Once I'm done with CS and they come to visit, they'll be reminded of the life they had before all the mess, that will speak all alone....When I go there next month it will be a quick trip because I want to avoid as much trouble as possible, exww and OM may try anything....I'll be in and out quick and I'll see kids again in 30 days after that anyway when they come around 4th July time......As far as the hot chics <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , I won't go there, I'll just leave that one in the barn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> {{{Cheese}}}

Hi, MMQ, Relady, Jared, WGTT, Leah, DavePR and anyone I missed....

Take Care
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/14/04 01:50 AM
avondale

These days I post on this board, GQ and recovery. I know more people on this board, and a few on GQ & even less on recovery.

For me, I don't find as much for me on the recovery board, maybe because I've been at this so long. Many there (not all) are pretty fresh with this whole thing even though they may be in recovery. I was hoping to see more positive upbeat things that work, but what ends up getting posted many times are the triggers, the problems. Not that you can't learn by them.

In reality, I don't know what will happen with our M. There is still a LOT of work to do in the recovery phases. He hasn't really repented and that concerns me because his guilt may drive him back out there. Rejoice Ministries gave example after example of just that same thing. They were asked why WS's come home and then leave or keep coming home for meals or events (whatever) and then go away. It's the guilt and shame. If they would just face up to God, they are forgiven that instant and it's thrown into the sea of forgetfullness.

FWH had been finalizing closing the business and was up there by himself this time. That worries me. He has started some of his old stuff the past few days and it doesn't feel good. I know that DV is not in the cards for me, but separation might be if this keeps up. I was happy on my own, have rich, rewarding relationships with friends, sailing, and had lots of time for God and prayer. God told me long ago that he would restore our M, but He didn't say when. It may or may not be right now. Only God knows.

D.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/14/04 02:27 AM
Just had a weird thing happen that I wanted to post. Got a call from H, he was confirming amount of support this month. He then told me he moved to cheaper place (when we spoke in Feb. he'd said that he was looking), and gave me the address. THEN he asked if I had done anything for our daughter's b'day. <note: fog rolling in> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I said "yes, last week" (when her b'day was). He said he was taking her out to lunch and invited me to meet them tomorrow. I declined so they could have "father-daughter time". Daughter will probably get a little mad at me for leaving her to fend for herself, but I didn't want H to get off so easy. Maybe he can feel how uncomfortable she is around him....we'll see.
I'm just at a loss as to explain why he'd think I'd want to go after what he's done. I guess that's just the fog...but then I think - what if something I said triggered within him the desire to get right?? How could he see what he's missing if he's never around me? What a quandary! Arrrgghhh!

<small>[ April 13, 2004, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/14/04 02:47 AM
avondale


Who knows except for God.

reread the Easter Story and others on Rejoice. Just like on MB all the WS sound and act alike, the same things happen on rejoice.


Maybe you could leave the door open just a little for the future to get together. How else will he see what you have become. It's a crack in the door, a tiny onw, but a crack. God is at work. Just don't get your hopes or expectations up. Just be you, the you that you have become. (did that make sense?)

God is bigger than your circumstances. It's understandable that you would wonder why he would want to be with you two after all he's done...... but God is a forgiving God, He forgives your H and he asks us to do the same. He gives us the grace if we ask.


---------

I came back to post too because something wierd happened to me. Above I posted about the recovery board .... and guess what? I found someone who is 8 years into recovery (strong - both personally and marriage) and dealing with a lot of the same issues as me! Thank you Lord!

D.
Posted By: MMQ Re: Tough Love - 04/14/04 06:24 PM
Gentlepeople,
I am down in the dumps.
I added a signature.
That should explain my depression.
Until next time,
MMQ
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/14/04 08:41 PM
MMQ - I am sooooo sorry! Two discoveries within a few days of each other is horrible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Do you have friends and family (other than your kids) who are there in person to support you? Is it likely that your H figured he had already filed, so why not go ahead with that behavior? Again, you are in my thoughts and prayers. I know this is rough, but we’re here for you.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/14/04 10:37 PM
Hi All,

I just now had a chance to glance in on the board.

I'll be posting a little later tonight... after I get done reading all the posts.

The thread has been a little busy.

Be back in awhile.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/15/04 02:38 AM
Hi All,

It's been a real whirlwind with work and everything. I didn't realize how long it's been since I posted, until I read the thread and the dates.

Welomce to the "Tough Love" thread MMQ and Jared. I'm sorry your here... but considering all that I've read on your posts so far, it's a good place to be.

There are a lot of good people on this thread as well as on all the MBer's boards. We are all here for you, as most, if not all of us... know the pain that you are all going through. It is by far one of the worst experiences that you are going through.

MMQ...

My heart goes out to you... as you appear to be in a very difficult situation with your "M" at this point in time.

First and foremost... you need to get an attorney, ASAP. The reason I say this, is because "D" papers have been served and you are unfortunately rolling in that direction due to your "H's" filing.

Your "H" can ask for sole custody... but unless he can prove that your an unfit mother (which is virtually impossible unless you committed murder), you more than likely will end up with a 50/50 joint custody as deemed by the Courts unless other arrangements are made prior with both your understanding... so I wouldn't worry about that.

Concerning saving your "M". I believe that any and all "Marriages" can be saved, if your willing to do the work, and tolerate all the possible nonsense that will more than likely come your way. Some marriages IMHO should not be saved (abuse, etc.), but yours is not one of them from what I've read so far.

IMO, your at a point in time where your going to need to step up to the plate, and go into Plan B. Your "H" is in a very thick fog. When these type of emotions are rolling that your "H" is displaying, there is not much you can do, but let this whole situation run it's course, as sad as I am to say this.

Get yourself an attorney #1.

Go into Plan B., and pray to the Lord to help your "H", yourself, and your Children trough this.

This is a war make no mistake about it. It's a battle... good against evil. IMHO... it is a spiritual battle that only the Lord himself can take command of.

Put your faith and trust in him, and let God's will be done.

Jarred...

I read your thread with the emails that you and your "W" have exchanged between yourselves.

I'm going to give you my take on it, base on what I've read.

If you want your "W" back anytime soon... you need to quit casting blame.

I know that your angry, and well you should be. But you need to relax, and take a deep breath as hard as I know that is.

Your going to Anger Management classes and hopefully these classes will give you the tools to work through the issues your dealing with at this point in time, as well as in the future.

IMHO, your dealing with a "run away wife". Yes she has issues, and infidelity that you are dealing with... but it appears to me that your "W" is afraid to come to you, for whatever reason.

You need to quit throwing out dictates... and show her that you are changing as a person. Not by words... but by your actions.

When I read your thread... it reminded me of someone that I use to know a long time ago... ME!

If you want to save your "M", stop the finger pointing, and I'm sure your "W" will notice the change in time... that's for starters. You are LBing all over the place... and you are not going to get your "W's attention if you keep that up. In fact... you most likely will lose her.

Set by example, not by words... and take this situation you have... and take it one step at a time. Work on you, and don't worry about her for the time being. I know it's hard... but you need to show her something new and improved to come back to.

I'm not trying to be harsh... I'm just trying to give you some good sound advice. Stop the dictates. Your going to regret some of the accusations you made to her even if they are true. If you keep this up, by throwing out the kind of lines you did in your email, your going to push her farther away. IMO... it's what is scaring her away.

Hopefully you can get your act together and show her the new you. Once you have done that, and she realizes that your for real... then start working on getting her straightened out, because she is not going to do it on her own by the sounds of it.

I know of what I speak... I use to have a "W" just like yours.

Leah...

I'm glad to hear that your "H" is up and doing well. I hope that you and your "H" were able to have some quality time together during his illness.

I have a question for you.

Have you asked your "H" to get together and do something that you know that you both enjoy?

A friend of mine who was on these boards, and from time to time pops in and posts... was going through almost the exact same thing you are.

She got to the point where she was just going to get out and get a "D".

She put all of her faith and trust in the Lord. She was going to move forward with or without the "M". She had worked on her "M" for years... but to no avail... and just when she was getting to pull the plug on her "H" (she told him he was going to be served with "D" papers), he all of a sudden just snapped out of it. It was truly a miracle, as she really had a very troubled "M".

As I write this... their "M" has never been better.

Her situation, and yours is so similiar. I'll try to remember the thread name, and give it to you... as it may give you some insight as to what she was dealing with, and how it all ended in a better "M", than she had before.

Her name was FreeIndeed, and she later changed it to Free.

When I remeber the thread name I'll give it to you.

Hang in there, and find something that you both can do together. Don't try to force it, just see if you can be subtle about it and see if it can happen.

avondale...

I think it's a good idea to let your "H" and your "D" get together without you there. It may throw some light onto this situation and give you somewhat of an idea of what may or may not be running through your H's head.

As far as my Easter... it went well. My OD and her B/F called and stated that they wanted to spend Easter with myself and the rest of my children. We all went to my G/F's house and had way to much to eat. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> So now I have to work out even more to burn all that food that I ate off... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My scar on my neck for the most part is just about gone. I guess that's what a good Plastic Surgeon can do for you. My G/F likes the manly look... she says it makes me look tough... which she likes... LOL!

EC...

I know to a certain degree what your going through as far as seeing your exW after so long and not knowing how you will react. I as well haven't seen my exW in 2 years coming this April 19th, so it probably feel like your looking at a stranger. And you know what? You probably will be.

I may be going through the same thing with my YD's graduation... even though my YD didn't send her an invitation.

Keep us informed as things progress.

Petvet...

I'll bet you have been busy, with tax season and all. It's good to hear that you got your "S" Baptized.

How's everything else going for you?

WGTT...

Your scaring me with that last post of yours. Hopefully your "H" isn't falling back into his old patterns.

Have you discussed this with him? If so... what does he have to say?

You have come so far... and I know how this must feel to see him slip back into his old patterns. Hopefully it will be just a passing phase, and everything will get back on track again.

Well I have rambled enough... hope it all makes some sense.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ April 14, 2004, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 04/15/04 02:42 PM
Hi Everyone! Hope you are all having a good week. My girls are off for spring break so I am currently on vacation with them. I'm visiting my sister and family. Despite the rain, we are having a good time.

AVONDALE,

Thanks for always coming up with suggestions for me. I appreciate the different recomendations. I've been looking at the counselling site and trying to figure out if I should go for it. It is a lot of money but it sounds as if it is worth the investment. I have read much on this MB board and Dr. Harley's books. I agree with much of what is here but it always seems to come back to having a willing partner.

I guess I question if there is much he can recommend in our marriage situation. Doesn't it take two? If I'm trying to meet his needs and avoid love busters and all the rest, is there other recomendations that he could give?

Or does it just come back to me having to decide if this is the marriage I want?? My husband has said he is being faithful and what I have is what I have. He feels he is doing what he can do. I can either choose to accept it or leave. So maybe that is what I need help with when I talk to Mr. Harley??

I also appreciate the recomendation for the emotional questionere. I read that book long ago and have discussed different principles with my husband. I've asked him to please fill out the questionere but he wasn't interested at the time. His basic take on this is "I hate all this stuff" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It's frustrating that I so desire to "fix this thing" and he is content with the marriage as is. I guess he has me when he needs me but likes having life on his terms. So he's not terribly motivated to change things. I'm sorry
I'm being a whiner again.

How are you doing? That was interesting that your husband wanted to have you come to dinner. I hope it will be helpful for your daughter and him to be alone and deal with the situation independently of your help. Maybe some good things will happen thru that lunch. I thought it was positive that he gave you his address! I know it can be frustrating trying to figure it all out. It seems you're doing a great job of trying to find the balance of being open to reconcilliation and having the right boundaries. Keep up the good work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I will continue to pray for your situation.

WGTT

I know just how you feel about not knowing what the future holds in your marriage. We have now been in and out of recovery for five years. It can be very challenging but also very much a situation that keeps you on your knees. I was excited to hear that you found someone in recovery that is in our situation. I'll have to go look for that thread. What is her name? Maybe we could all be an encouragement to each other. God bless.

MMQ

I'm so sorry for all the yuck you've been experiencing. It is an awful, painful thing to go through. I did that two d-day thing in a weeks time. That had to be my lowest point. I found out there was continued contact with OW and that he had had a one night stand with another woman three years previous. It about killed me. My heart goes out to you. Please know IT WILL GET BETTER!!! It might take some time but you are going thru the toughest time right now. At least that was my experience. For me, I was just intensely hurt!! It is wonderful to get beyond that pain. I'm not saying it doesn't still hurt but its on a much different level right now. Hang in there. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

WALLACE,

Glad to hear from you. It sounds as if you had a nice Easter. Thanks for your words of encouragement and for the suggestions. I have continued to try to reach out to my husband by asking about spending time together. Sometimes he responds but more often his priority just isn't there. He is extremely busy with his business. When he does have free time he likes to hang out with our girls or have time for himself. His big interest is with motorcycles. He races them. This is a weekend thing he tries to do monthly. But there is also all the time involvement of preparing for the races. I try to join in on that when I can. It's not my natural place of interest but I want to utilize any oportunity to try to develop a relationship with him.

Thanks also for writing about your friend FREE. I'd love to see her thread. It's always helpful to learn from others who have been where you are. It's great to hear that some really do make it work after long trying ordeals. That was nice of you to write. I hope things continue to go well for you and your ladyfriend. Take care and God bless.

HI to all others. Trust all is going well for you .
Posted By: Lost_Gemini Re: Tough Love - 04/16/04 01:55 PM
I have been recently divorced for a month, and it was the worst mistake of my life.

She attempted to talk to me, but I didn't listen so she filed. I countered claimed. A few months later, we agreed to see counseling to work on things. I wanted to drop the divorce to work on things, but she wanted to extend all the dates to see if we can work it out.

As a male, I was angered about her filing and felt that she held it over my head. We got along great during the process, but I was very bothered by the process for almost 9 months. She asked for everything under the sun, while I was trying to be fair. She wanted alimony, child support, and sole-custody. We ended up using my suggestions for the final paperwork. I couldn't spend any money without going to the judge or her during the divorce proceedings, which I felt was demeaning. I think that she did everything because of the feelings of pain and her attorney.

She dropped the divorce a month before the final date, but I wanted time to think everything thru as we had agreed months earlier. She confronted me furiously on Friday the 13th, and I shutdown once again. Needless to say nothing was fixed, and more damage was done. We divorced a month later, and I think that we both regret it. I think that she is more hurt by the process.

My opinion is to only file for divorce after exhausting all your communicative efforts with you spouse. Divorce is a finality and it hurts horribly! During the process I was comfortable with the outcome, but when it came it hit me like a ton of bricks. Now I am trying to reconcile and rebuild my family, but only time will tell. If someone has reconciled successfully after being divorced, I would love to hear about it.
Posted By: MMQ Re: Tough Love - 04/16/04 07:55 PM
Gentlepeople,
I am a fool. Everyone has lied to me about this A. I wish I could have that wonderful loving relationship with WH. But I don’t see it happening now.
I can use your help of a steady hand while I go through my awakening.
My naivete and ignorance, have proven to be dangerous. I shudder as I awaken to the full implications of the situation at hand. I need to become more practical and look beyond dreams to the reality of the problems that need to be resolved.
How can I turn this crisis into an opportunity?
Do I even want to be with my WH?
So far I have been so cautious not to be mad, not to show anger, to be alluring.
I have gained nothing by trying to be subtle or strategic in this situation.
I feel as if I have to protect myself and my son. I reread the article about what children learn from infidelity. I feel as if I don’t take my son under my wing. No one else will.
WH left today for NYC with OW and another couple.
OW was invited for Easter dinner and WH announced to the family they were going to NYC together. MIL has been in on the A from the very beginning.
I feel like running away with my YS, but I can’t. I am tempted to just refuse to take him back to his dad’s after the NYC trip.
I sure hope that you all are doing better than I am.
Love, Peace & Justice
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/16/04 09:18 PM
MMQ
I am at a loss as to what to say for you. I have no advice. Am I understanding that your H is flaunting this relationship with OW as "an affair" and she ate Easter meal with your family? And your MIL knows and approves? Is she cold and heartless, or are there some details we aren't aware of?

What plan has your lawyer come up for you? What are the separation laws in your state? I think at this point, doing nothing could be the most damaging thing. If things are moving at the fast pace they seem to, you need to move quickly to protect yourself and your YS. Obviously your H isn't thinking of YS, he's in fogland.

I wish I had some words of wisdom but I don't. You are in my prayers, I'm sorry things are happening the way they are.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/16/04 10:52 PM
Hi All,

I only have a few moments... but I think I remembered the link for Leah, that I was talking about... that FreeIndeed was posting about her "M".

It's called "Listen to your Inner Voice".

Look for it in the MBer's search area... and it should pop up.

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/17/04 05:09 AM
MAQ- Just hang in there for now, it's a horrible time and it doesn't get better overnight, even though we want the pain to stop, it doesn't. I had lots of ddays too, toooooo many to even post. Each time it would rock my world.

Early on, before I found MB, it was suggested to me, not to make any decisions when in such an emotional uproar. It was good advice. I am soooo happy today that I did the work I did based on the MB principles, because no matter what happens in my M, I am truley OK.

Leah -
I remember the post Wallace is talking about. It was probaly late 02 to early 03 on the DV board. I may have even saved it on my computer. (Could that be why my computer is so slow? All these mb threads?)

Same thing happened with my husband, he came around when I filed a legal separation. But caution I was ready to let him go if he continued. It took me a long time and a lot of work to be a peace with first myself and then the situation. I went to Alanon, counseled with Steve Harley, did other things as well to work on me. I didn't do it cuz everyone was telling me to, it came from within because it was the right thing to do as the result of a lot of prayer.


There is a thread right now about the MB principles in recovery and it mentions MC vs the Harleys. 2ofakind is the one who had posted on his own thread and on someone elses. I 'll go back and look for it and post it.

Wallace, We have not addressed anything since he's been back but we will. I don't know what on up there at this point, and it seems that somehow God reveals to me what I need to know, sometimes in the most bizarre ways! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> The business is closed and a guy is up there doing the final cleaning. Thank God we are done with that!

Leah - the name I found in recovery is Pepperband. She also posts in GQ. I didn't know that her FWH was a recovering alcoholic of 8 years. She said that Alanon, and AA were part of their marriage recovery. She has posted for a long time. She has posted some revelant things on a thread by Spyder slayer and on my thread to her.

Gotta get to bed - I have a full day tomorrow and an early one at that.

Good night! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

D.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 04/17/04 01:44 PM
Leah - here are the links on the recovery board that my help-

Link to thread on recovery for leah

link to my thread in recovery

Here's a good link as well, this guy was first a BS, then a WS.
2ofakind's thread


D.
Posted By: leftwith8kids Re: Tough Love - 04/17/04 08:16 PM
Hi everyone, you may remember me by mommax8, my husband and I reconciled or a year and now he has up and left me and the kids again, almost a year to the day. This time no more reconciliation, he has left me with 8 kids a mound of bills and were are being forced from our home and I have to do all of this in 2wks time. I am in complete and total despair again and I don't know if I can do it again.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/17/04 11:53 PM
Mx8
It's great to hear from you! Here's a link (note date) to show you how much you were missed:
Where is Mommax8?

I'm sorry to hear things didn't work out. What are your plans? Can you give us an update with a few more details? How can we support you?
Posted By: leftwith8kids Re: Tough Love - 04/18/04 06:40 PM
Hi everyone, thank you so much for asking where I have been. Let's see I am currently moving out of the house we got together when we reconciled, I have to be out at the end of this month. I have all the kids with me except for my 15yr old daughter who is with her dad at his parent's house. Yes he went back home to mom and dad again and they are comforting him because his wife is so wicked and she won't let him walk all over her and treat her like dirt anymore. He went off his meds for bipolar in november and began drinking again. He blames me because I didn't make sure we could afford his meds and because I worried more about feeding the kids I was selfish selfcentered and self-absorbed. I don't know how being a single parent, working a full-time job, being very active in the church, taking care of my 94yr old grandmother, how I could be self absorbed.

Well he left April 6th and he hasn't called one time to talk to the kids, I called because my daughter is there and as soon as I spoke he began to scream yell and call me anything but a child of God, he began to talk to our son and told him that he was making a bomb in the garage and was going to blow up a friend of mine that is a police officer because he tackled him from not jumping off a building.. I promptly ended the conversation and I haven't communicated with him sense.

On a better note, I am doing much better emotionally than I did last year because I am really over it and am excited about starting a new life and what God has planned for us, I know it is something big since the kids and I have endured so much. The kids and I are going on a mission trip with our church, which is something I have always wanted to do but couldn't so we are off.

The support I need the most would be how to deal with my kids and their hatred towards their father, they really don't want to have anything to do with him now. He has done this to them twice and they have lost all respect for him. Even my daughter who is with him she just feels sorry for him and says he is mental and she needs to take care of him.....he has abused us so bad for the last 17years. I see a counselor on Tuesday in order to get us all started in family counseling.

Also need lots of prayers for strength and volunteers because i have to move my whole house and eight kids and I can't lift a king size bed. Everyone from the church plans on being at my house on the 30th and take the kids off my hands for 2 days so I can get them all set up.

I am looking so forward to starting a new life I never thought I could live without him, now I couldn't imagine living the rest of my life with him..... Thank God for protecting me and my children again.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/19/04 02:56 AM
Left ,
I can’t imagine moving a household of belongings for a family your size! It’s great you’ve got a good church family to help out. We’ll pray that they all show up on the right day. I assume you have a new place lined up, and won’t have to live with your family like you did before.

I’m glad you feel you’re doing better emotionally. Did you decide to not use the same screen name you had before? What do we call you now? “Lefty”? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> LOL

You said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Even my daughter who is with him she just feels sorry for him and says he is mental and she needs to take care of him.....he has abused us so bad for the last 17years. I see a counselor on Tuesday in order to get us all started in family counseling.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please watch out for this daughter, that she doesn’t get sucked into his life. That’s such a vulnerable age and I honestly don’t think it would do her one bit of good to stay with her dad. I actually think it will create problems for her (emotionally) at some point in the near future. It's an automatic co-dependant relationship! If there is any way you can convince her to stay with you, in my opinion, that would be best for her. I’m glad you’re going to see a counselor too. Will the kids be seeing the same counselor? What about the 15 year old? Will her dad let her see a counselor if he won't see one himself? How about finances? I know that was an issue before, too.

<small>[ April 18, 2004, 09:57 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 04/19/04 07:13 PM
Hello everyone. Hope you all enjoyed a nice weekend. I had a good week with my girls. My husband called and said he missed me. Shock! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> The thing I have to work on is not wondering if he's up to something when he starts being nice. That has happened a few times in the past. I'm trying to take the positive for face value and let go of the past. A challenging thing to do...

WALLACE and WGTT,

Thanks so much for the links and info. I've read thru some of it but haven't gotten thru it all. It is very helpful. I've always enjoyed reading 2oaks threads. He certainly says it like it is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LEFT,

You certainly must be a strong lady for God to entrust to you the care of eight children. I'm glad to hear you are at peace and are looking forward to a new life. That's a great perspective!I hope all goes well with your move. I'll pray you get the help you need. God bless!

<small>[ April 19, 2004, 02:15 PM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/21/04 05:49 AM
Leah
That's great about your husband calling you. You're right, take it as a positive thing. I know you hope at some point to stop "double guessing" everything he says.

Me Nothing new with me, but I did have something unusual happen, so I thought I'd post it. On Saturday a message was left on my machine for H, from a professional acquaintance (who obviously doesn't know H moved 2 yrs ago, LOL). Message was along the lines of "I got your new CD, you've outdone yourself this time, this is the greatest musical creation I've ever heard, etc." So I found out through this he's made a new CD and is selling them. (I had read in paper that he played Friday night somewhere, so I guess that's where this guy got it). H gave daughter a copy for her b'day and she said it's the weirdest music she's ever heard - like having toddlers play piano, bass and guitar, all in different keys, at same time. So I can probably assume I'm not mentioned in the liner notes, LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Then, Monday night at 10:30 I'm in bed, about to drift off to sleep, and the phone rings. It's H. He can't get his car key to turn over the ignition, and wondered if there was still a spare key around the house. Needless to say I didn't sleep for a while after that. It was not an unpleasant chat but just strange, two mentions of him in two days. Weird <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ April 20, 2004, 12:59 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/22/04 05:53 AM
Hi All,

Left...

Good to hear from you... but sorry to hear the news of your "H's" state of being.

I think your better off staying away from him... and I would get your daughter back home as well. She doesn't need to be in that type of atmosphere. She needs to be in a stable enviroment with a Parent that is grounded. Until your "H" gets the help he needs, I would have your whole family stay clear of him.

Concerning you childrens attitude towards thier father. IMHO, they have every right to feel the way they do. My children feel the same way about their mother.I neither encourage or discourage their feeling towards their mother. If and when they want to strike up a relationship with their mother... it will be by their own choice. It's not something you can force a child to do... they choose to do it on their own, in their own time, if ever.

Leah...

It appears that your taking things in a positive direction.



</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The thing I have to work on is not wondering if he's up to something when he starts being nice. That has happened a few times in the past. I'm trying to take the positive for face value and let go of the past. A challenging thing to do... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you have the right idea. I would stick with mindset until you have something that gives you real cause for concern.

avondale...

I thought this was classic.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then, Monday night at 10:30 I'm in bed, about to drift off to sleep, and the phone rings. It's H. He can't get his car key to turn over the ignition, and wondered if there was still a spare key around the house. Needless to say I didn't sleep for a while after that. It was not an unpleasant chat but just strange, two mentions of him in two days. Weird
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL... I never new of a spare key that would make an engine turn over that the original wouldn't... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I think your right... it is wierd... I wonder what his motivation is?

Me...

Well my YD's birthday is this Sunday, so I'm still trying to get set up for that... and then there is her graduation next month. It's been a hectic month.

Petvet and EC...

What's going on with you guys? Anything new happening?

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ April 21, 2004, 12:57 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 04/22/04 03:33 PM
Hi Everyone. Hope everyone is doing well. Things are pretty good here. My husband just left for a business trip to Columbus. He'll be gone till Monday. Our little positive direction was short lived, as usual.

This is the cycle were on. I get where I pretty much "give up" and resolve to just get on with my life with the girls. I'm pleasant but non-engaging because of the hurt and pain every time I try to go there. About the time he sees me backing up he comes around and says something encouraging, like "I've missed you"

Then I'll think, hey maybe he might really want a relationship and I start to try to open up the chanels of communication. Then, bam, he'll typically get angry again about something I've said and once again I'm alone. (He will get angry if I should ever suggest that he's less than a perfect husband or that I might have some unmet needs) Any type of open communication leaves him defensive and angry no matter how hard I try to "say it right".

So then we're back to the old roommate situation marriage. He's happy as long as life goes totally his way with no confrontations or expectations from me.

So my choice is to accept this marriage as is and probably will always be,apart from a miracle, or divorce. I hate both options!

Still praying about it all and trying to trust God with the outcome. I just need wisdom and direction in the decision. Also, if I'm to continue to stay, how to do that and remain at peace and to find joy in the journey.

Thanks for "listening". It's been great to have your advice and support. Hope all of you have a great weekend!

Avondale

That was very strange about your husband calling for a key! Any more contact? How did your husband and daughter do with their dinner? Still praying for you!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/22/04 09:15 PM
Hi Y'all,
I guess everyone is gearing up for the weekend. I know I certainly am!

Leah
What are your plans if you do divorce? Would you HAVE to be the one to leave? What does "leaving the marital home" mean in your state? I know you won't move rashly (and haven't done so in the past) but have you fully explored all those issues that come with separation/divorce? I know that is your second choice. I wonder if your H is acting the way he is to force YOU to be the one to make the decision. Is he passive in other areas of his life?

Thanks for your prayers and interest. Dinner with daughter went "ok" according to her. It turns out his parents went so that helped her. I'm not sure if they were invited before or after he invited me.

Left ,
I hope your moving goes well. How is your oldest daughter doing with her dad? Have you been able to convince her (and him) that she should be with you? Do you think he'll move in with his parents?

MMQ - How are you doing? Please post an update <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WGTT - Is everything progressing well with you and your H? Did he get stuff packed up and moved without incident?

Petvet, EC, Wallace
How are y'all? Did you survive tax day? I got my refunds already <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 04/23/04 01:42 AM
Hi Everyone,

I would love to learn how to quote someone so I could more accurately reply to questions and such. I know there are quotes on the top of the page but how do you use them to quote only portions of the post that you want to use?? I'm not exactly a whiz kid on this computer but I'm trying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Avondale,

Let me see if I can answer your questions right. Whenever I go back and reread post, I often find I neglected to address a question or concern. I don't know how to just copy portions of this thread either. Sorry.

Anyhow, yes I have thought long and hard about separation. I have also sought counsel from attorneys regarding our situation. They all advise me to stay put and work hard to get him to be the one to leave. BUT,that is the problem. He won't leave. He says he's happy and if I don't like the marriage then I can leave without the kids. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Obviously, I'm not going to do that!

So, we're at a stalemate. The only way we could get a divorce is to have a one year in house separation. It seems to be the only solution if we go that route. Of course, I would love to think there is a way to make this marriage work but after five years, I'm battle weary.

Thanks for writing Avondale. I hope you and all others have a great weekend!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/23/04 02:29 AM
Leah
To quote,just hit the "quote" button, which is in the group of buttons below the box where you type new posts. It will then show two HTML tags, (two words saying QUOTE in brackets). Then copy and paste the text you want to quote, and put the text between those two QUOTE words. If Petvet can learn how to do smileys, you can do this! Good luck!

<small>[ April 22, 2004, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/23/04 03:12 AM
Hey Everyone,

I hope everyone's day went well today. I'm getting ready for the weekend as well, but I have one more day of work... and it has been hectic.

Leah...

I will try to instruct you on how to put in quotes... but I am more of a hands on kind of guy than anything else... but here goes.

You first need to highlight the area that you want to put in to your quote. You do this by putting your mouse cursor right at the beginning of the area that you want to copy for your quote.

Hit your left mouse button and it should highlight the area that you want to copy in blue. Drag your mouse over the entire area that you want to copy... and then hit your CTRL button and then your C button one right after the other. This will copy the area that you want to quote. Then once you have done that... go to "Quote" in the Instant UBB Code... and you click on quote.

You will see at that point something like [quote] [quote}. Point your cursur in the middle of these and then hit your keys CTRL and V, at the same time... and you should see what you copied and pasted in between the quotes. If you like... you can preview what you have done... and if it's to your satisfaction then you can "add reply".

Concerning what's happening in your "M" at this point. I'm going to you my take on it from a guy's perspective.

You need IMHO, need to be less open to his needs, without turning it into a "LB". IMHO... guys as well as gals want what they think they can't have. Don't be overly receptive to his wants and needs, but on the other hand... don't be neglectful. You don't want to appear to be needy... and it sounds like that may be the case. Men love a good challenge... so go ahead and give him one.

MMQ...

As hard as it is... and with what is facing you at this point in time... my question is... is did you get yourself an attorney to at least go over all the details of what seems to be coming up in the not to distant future?

avondale...

Just curious... why do you think your "H" had his parents along for the dinner with your daughter?

WGTT...

Did your "H" get the all the dealings with the business settled... and what is the status of everything at this point?

Me...

Well both my parents called me today to inform me that they are getting a "D" after 53 years of "M".

Today is the day they were to celebrate 53 years of "M". Instead... they are lining up all their legal staff to file for "D". Life never ceases to amaze me.

Well I hope everyones day goes well for tomorrow.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/23/04 09:56 AM
Wallace
I am in total shock <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wallace said:

Well both my parents called me today to inform me that they are getting a "D" after 53 years of "M".
Today is the day they were to celebrate 53 years of "M". Instead... they are lining up all their legal staff to file for "D". Life never ceases to amaze me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What in the world is their reason?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> They've got to be 70+ years old! Did you have any clue? I'm sure you're in shock, and my thoughts and prayers are with you.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/23/04 10:29 PM
Hi All,

Well I'm on the down hill slide at work and getting ready for the weekend.

avondale...

Thank you for the prayers and support. It did catch me off guard when my Parents announced this to me. But nothing surprises me anymore.

Both of my Parents are in their late seventies. My Dad will be 80 next month. You would think that they would be enjoying their twilight years with each other at this point in time... but apparently that does not seem to be the case.

Well I hope everyone is doing well... have a great weekend all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 04/24/04 03:01 PM
Goodmorning Everyone! Hope it is as pretty where you are as it is here. I love a bright, sunny day!

Avondale and Wallace,

Thanks for the "lesson". I'll soon try it out and see if I can get it to work. I appreciate all your help and advice from how to work a quote to matters of the heart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace, I am so very sorry to hear about your parents. That must be such a disappointment for you. You will most certainly be in my thoughts and prayers.

Well, I just attempted to quote you but my computer is acting up. I'm afraid it's on its way out. It needs to be replaced, so if I should ever stop posting for awhile, it may be I'm without a computer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Wallace, about your thoughts on my situation... I really do appreciate your feedback. I love being able to get another man's perspective. I feel you said some very wise things. I'm afraid I'm too often a puppet on a string. I'm really working to be more of a challenge. That has become somewhat easier than it use to be. I'm starting to understand how the "game" is played. I just hate having to always play the game.

A counsellor once remarked that with my husband's personality that is what I'll always have...a cat and mouse chase. He's only interested when I'm not available. Pretty Jr. High but that's what is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I do thank you for your assessment and will do what I can with God's help.

Hope everyone has a great weekend! God bless!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/24/04 11:02 PM
Hi Everyone,


Avondale - Yes, I survived tax season,(why)? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> because I did my taxes in Feb <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I like to get it over with asap. When I wait, It's like a wet diaper when I stall until tax day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Your H came out with a CD?Hmmm, how interesting? His CD sounded all mixed together as in confusion? Well I know you're not surprised. Why would you think him and OW would make sweet melody together? I'm sure it's bad enough to make a dog say (Can you hear me now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )....I forgot, what style of music does he play?

Wallace - Sorry to hear about your parents. You know, this is just the age we're living in, couples not wanting to stick it out, unforgiving, young and old alike. Stay encouraged for the Lord knows all.

When things happen, a blessing is in store. A cripple man/woman may not be able to walk and needs a miracle. God can (make) the person walk by a miracle, or he can (cause) the person to walk by a progressive healing by teaching him/ her to walk with him.


Me: Just getting ready for YD grad d. She don't want to go to the military now, so I'm trying to help with that now. Other than that things are flowing along.

A marriage is like two boards glued to together. When the ripping happens both BS/WS has splinters sticking out. When this happened to us, we went to the Almighty carpenter and said Lord make me new again, heal my rough edges. The WS goes on splintered and jagged, never getting sanded. They join themselves splintered to another person, Oh what pain they take to the next relationship.

Hi, Petvet, Leah, MMQ, Wgtt and anyone else I missed...

Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 04/27/04 12:00 PM
Hi all! Sorry for the posting lately. I have been in every now and then to read but did not post.

Avondale: Refund, Good Deal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ! New CD, how wonderful! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I would advise that you find out the name of the CD and the record company, and monitor the sales. The sales from the CD should be community property. Is the CD a collaboration with his love interest? Does he need money? This was not a very smart move on his part in my opinion. Car keys? Why is he calling you? There is such a profession called locksmith. Is he still with the singer? If you are not careful, he will play these needy games forever how long you let him. I hope the ax season was good for you. I am going to open an office later this year.

Wallace: I read about your parents. Not good news, after 50 plus years. Does not make sense to me? Are you going to try to find out what's going on? Is someone doing something they aren't suppose to be doing? Take care of yourself. You seem to be under alot of pressure; is my observation true?

Left: Sorry to hear that you have had to address problems again. Is this the final straw?

EC: Has YD signed papers for the military? How are you going to get her out of the obligation? The military is going to have trouble getting folks. I would feel odd seeing my ex after many years as well. Just stay cool, and pretend that she is not even there.

Leah: What I am about to say may come off as being direct or mean, but my intentions are good. You know I am divorce now and went through the same bunch of horse____ that you are going through involving one spouse not wanting to leave because they have been lawyered up. I would advise that you stay as well, but the thought of living with your H as a roommate is too much. The kids can see that something is wrong. It is a very stressful situation. All I can advise is that you try to get the divorce on the fast track. These types of situations are messy. Get ready! The one who wants out should be the one to move out. I have much compassion for you.

MMQ: Your MIL has as much moral fortitud as a crocadile. Yes, you have been betrayed. The bridge has been burn, blownup, etc. Do what you need to do to protect yourself. Your WH must have approval from his family for him to display his lover in front of everyone totally dixing you in the process. There is a lot of disrespect and hate towards you from his family. Going forward, you need to understand where that is coming from.

Me: I had been busy with taxes, spring break vacation with kid, etc. My BD was last Saturday and I had a great time with buddy. I am making it. I am moving forward.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 04/28/04 11:44 AM
Petvet - Happy Birthday! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Leah - Have you come to any decision or leaning in light of your question about "roommate marriage vs. divorce"? I think you explained it pretty well in the other thread. Did any of the responses surprise you? You could always "bump" it up to possibly get more responses.

Wallace - Any more drama from your parents? I still can't believe that, I'm so sorry. That is probably the oldest age for divorce I've ever heard of! One time I read about an older couple that divorced due to health problems one was having, and didn't want the other to know about. Any possibility that might be a factor??

Left - Did you get moved OK?

EC - Are you counting the days til you see your daughters (and xw) again? I know you have mixed feelings. Let us know when you're going so we can pray for you.

WGTT - Any update on your situation? Things still moving into full reconciliation? I hope so!

Me - After a long day at work, I spent two hours yesterday moving furniture that was my dad's from a storage unit over to my house (daughter took some for her new home). I had delayed doing this because I didn't want my house to be full of furniture if and when Hubby comes over to divide property. But I didn't want to pay for the storage unit any more. I will probably give a lot of my dad's stuff away, but it's an emotional drain, remembering where things were in my parent's house, mom's death, being glad she wasn't around to see what I'm going through, etc. But today's a new day and God is good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/28/04 08:29 PM
Hi Everyone,

Well it's been a real whirlwind over here. Just when you think things are calming down... think again.

Leah...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Avondale and Wallace,

Thanks for the "lesson". I'll soon try it out and see if I can get it to work. I appreciate all your help and advice from how to work a quote to matters of the heart. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No problem on giving you possibly something to work with. Have you had a chance to put any of the advice we gave you into motion, and if so, have you noticed any kind of a change in your "H", be it good or bad?

Also... thank you for your support and prayers concerning my Parents... it is appreciated. In fact I could use quite a few prayers at the moment.

EC...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> this is just the age we're living in, couples not wanting to stick it out, unforgiving, young and old alike. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree completely with your statement. I truly believe that society as a whole cannot keep going down this road much longer. I am becoming very disilliusioned with the way a vast majority of people act out there. I think... I may become a hermit before it's all said and done with.

My YD's graduation is this May 14th. In fact I was at a school function last night to go over all the activities they have scheduled for it. I don't anticipate my exW being there... as my YD stated, "she didn't want here there"... so she didn't send he an invitation.

You stated that your YD decided she didn't want to go into the military. Did she already enlist? Hopefully if she was unsure about enlisting... she didn't go ahead and sign up. If she did... I'm not sure there is much you can do to get her out of it... unless she goes to basic training and doesn't cut it (which is not a good idea to do).

Petvet...

Your BD is the day before my YD's. So a belated "Happy Birthday"! Hope you had a good BD, and everyone enjoyed it.

Concerning my Parent's current situation... my Mother claims that my Dad is having an "A" with another woman. My Dad says that he is not. My Mom says he has been leaving to their other home they have every weekend. She swears that their is another woman behind it all. There must be some sort of evidence to support her acusation... otherwise I don't believe we would have the kind of situation thatthey have going at the moment.

avondale...

Just when you think you have seen it all... you haven't. I don't know of anyone the age of my Parents that are going through the type of situation we have going here. It's just crazy... and I have no quick fix answers for either of them. I told them to come to the MBers site... and get a little educated as to what they both are probably doing wrong.

Sorry to hear about you having to move your Dad's furniture out of storage. I'm sure it was very emotional while you were in the process of doing it. Sometimes I will see something in my house, that will set off a trigger on me. You try to to put any and all of those things somewhere out of site and out of mind... until your ready to deal with it on your own terms.

Me...

I believe my relationship with my G/F is heading south. I think that we are both pulling away from any sort of "M" scenario at this point. She knows I'm not ready, and that I still have a lot of soul searching to do, as well as healing. She is not happy about it... but I told her that I was not going to get "M" just for the sake of getting "M".

I like being single... and I still need time for myself as well as my kids. I don't want to mix the families, and it will be at least another 2 to 4 years before I see any type of "M" plans to be truly successful.

Well I hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 04/28/04 10:58 PM
Hi Everyone -


Wallace - YD was able to decline military entry. I spoke to the Military office and found out the procedure. So she's not going now. She said she's going to pursue college now, but I don't see any fruits of that happening so far, but we'll see. I am very concerned for her future...

You and G/f seeing things different? You know, time is always on your side. Marriage is precious and a major decision. Take your time and don't lose your glue by getting in several marriages over time. I'm sure one was enough already. People are going through them like a revolving door and getting deeply wounded.

Avondale - Oh, yes, please pray for me. As I get closer, I'm concerned about possibly meeting OM. He may be at the graduation as last time in 2002 at OD graduation, but we missed each other.

I've been trying to practice my reaction since 2002 but haven't found one yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I know they both are liars but I'm sure they'll flount there false love in front of my face, and be ruthless

As I said in the past, I'd be perfectly fine if exww was with somebody new, I have no problem with that. But I do have a problem seeing one the guys that invaded my marriage. It's very difficult to face somebody that while you were still married they made death threats and said " Your wife belongs to them now" and your WW laughs and parades the OM in front of your kids. So I'm kinda having flash backs now. Just when I thought I was far along, I now have to face my past again.

Maybe had I seen OM in 2002 it wouldn't be so bad, who knows. Well I guess this is called facing your fear... The grad is May 18th

I'll be happy to see YD and OD, but just when good is before you, evil is present.

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 04/30/04 10:38 PM
Hi All!

Trying to wind down from the work week... not quite there yet though.

EC...

Glad to hear that you were able to get everything with your YD and her enlisting squared away.

I'll bet you are a little nervous about going to your YD's graduation. Keep us informed as it comes up, so we can all say prayers for you. I'm glad you get to see your daughters, but I don't envy you having to deal with your exW and her B/F being there. You have a good head on your shoulders and I'm sure you will handle it well.

Me...

My Parents are evidently going to follow through with the "D", but haven't heard anything new about it lately.

Well everyone... have a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 05/01/04 02:48 AM
HI,

There is still a lot going on in my world. There are so many consequences to get through as a result of the life style my husband lived the past few years. Thankfully there are not new ones popping up. It takes soooooo much energy, both physical and emotional to deal with everything that is going on.

Add a new profession in the pile of stuff, and that puts me just about on the edge of overload. Somehow, throught the grace of God, I get thru it.

Two days ago I was frustrated with my progress in Real Estate. Yesterday, I decided I needed to give myself the image of a huge sucess. After that a man walked in to use the copier, he was staying there on vacation. Turns out, he was looking for commercial properties and had me show him some today. I am really excited. He was a nice Christian man and we had a really good conversation. It was a God thing.

Hi to all


D.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 05/04/04 05:53 AM
Hello Everyone,

Wallace,

It sounds as if you're going thru some challenging times right now with your parents situation and with your girlfriend. I've been praying for you. It must be tough dealing with both very emotional situations.

Continue to do what you feel to be right as far as timing with your future marriage. You are wise to be careful with such a big step. I just had a conversation with a lady who just recently married her third husband. Her first one left her and her children for another woman. The second marriage ended because of the conflicts with each other's children. (The older ones were teenagers) It's really difficult to put two households together. It certainly can be done, but it would hold some major challenges.

Anyhow, I just want for you to experience a really happy marriage next time, after all you have gone through the first time around.

Avondale

You asked if I've come up with any new thoughts re marriage vs. divorce. Not really. At this present time I'm trying to continue on for as long as God gives me the grace to stay, unless I discover my husband has been unfaithful again. This can only be done with God's help as I do get really tired and lonely in this marriage. But for the sake of my girls, I'm trying to give them a stable home with a mom and dad. I pray I'm doing the right thing. I truly want to do God's will and would not want to do anything that would hurt my girls. I know that staying isn't an ideal role model for them but I don't think divorce is going to solve all our problems.

Anyhow, thanks for your interest and concern. I hope all is going well for you. Any new developments in your situation?

Petvet,

Thanks for your sympathy with my ongoing situation. I was initially drawn to this thread because of your first posts. They reminded me of where I am and have been. I read about half way thru the thread and then jumped ahead to see what ended up happening to you and your then wife.

I am so happy that you are in so much better a place now. It's nice to see that you are moving on and that you have found happiness with someone else. I hope and pray that someday maybe the same will happen with me. Either with my husband or with someone else. Meanwhile, I'm trying to grow and learn and wait on God for what to do next.

God bless you, Petvet! Oh yeah, Happy Belated Birthday!

EC

I have been praying for you as you prepare for your YD graduation. I hope things go well and that if your Ex-w is there with someone, that it won't be the someone who helped destroy your M. I can totally empathize with that being a very difficult situation. Just keep looking to the Lord for the grace and strength to face that situation with confidence. He'll see you thru!

WGTT

Keep staying strong in your efforts to put your marriage back together. With God's help, you can make it! I'm glad there haven't been any new stuff to deal with. I know the old stuff is enough to keep you challenged. Keep looking up!

me

I'm doing okay. Just trying to do the next thing and to keep on keeping on. I've been trying to continue to keep my focus on the Lord and just learning to take it one day at a time. I'm trusting Him to bring good from all the struggles. He is faithful! Hope all of you have a great week!!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/05/04 05:01 AM
Hi All,

Just have a few moments... and then I have to get back to work.

WGTT...

Both of my folks were in real estate for many years. When they first got started, their business was very slow. As time went on though... they eventually became very successful in it. So hang in there, and stay with it. From what I've seen... you should eventually get out of it, what you put into it.

I'm sure you have a lot of work to do to clean up all the wonderfulness that has happened over the past years. It's a lot of work... but if your both willing to put in the effort to make it work... I'm sure you will be successful. Take each task... one at a time if you can. That way both you and your "H", won't become overwhelmed with it all.

Leah...

I think your making the right decision by stay in the "M". Your not going to make you childrens life any better by disolving the "M", unless there is abuse etc. In addition, it gives you the opportunity to keep working on your "M", to try to make it better. If you haven't succeeded by the time your children are ready to go out on their own... then I would consider going your seperate ways.

Well back to work.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/05/04 11:03 AM
~~~~ oops double post~~~
It's the computer's fault, it just happened! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ May 05, 2004, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/05/04 11:08 AM
Hi Everyone,
It seems there hasn't been a lot of new things going on to post. However, here's something I wanted to share. Y'all know that I've struggled with if and how I should talk to H about "our future" (or should I say "the" future?). Especially since our talk in Feb. when he said he'd like to meet every month to work out divorce elements, it has weighed more heavily, waiting for what he said was inevitable. Out of deference to him, I have not said or done anything that could be construed to be FOR divorce. I spoke to my pastor who told me he thought I was suffering much more than H was, due to his lack of commitment (obviously!) and indecisiveness. He had encouraged me to talk to H,always making sure I said I was committed to our marriage and to him. I still didn't feel comfortable doing that, cuz everything I could think of to start the conversation sounded like I was asking for divorce. So I had prayed for him to initiate SOME KIND of contact. Here's what happened:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Hubby wrote:
I imagine you probably have some mail for me. If you want to leave it in the door tomorrow morning, I'll drop off the check at around 8:30 or quarter till nine.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Avondale25 replied:
Thanks for the check; I'll leave the mail in the door for you. I also have a question. When we had dinner at Harpers in February, you had mentioned getting together regularly. I haven't heard from you, and just wondered. Regardless, you know I remain committed to our marriage vows.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To me this is living dangerously in a sense. No response yet, but I'll keep you posted. Perhaps this will make him re-examine himself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

EC - Two more weeks til graduation. Are you driving or flying?

<small>[ May 05, 2004, 06:11 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 05/05/04 06:05 PM
Hi Gang!!


Hope everyone is doing fine!

Avondale - Yep, in 2 weeks or less, I'll be heading to YD's graduation. Exw sent me YD's prom pictures the other day. YD has really grownup, not my same baby I remember. It's going to be really wierd being there and I just don't know what to expect.

Despite it all I'm going to make my journey to the beach of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> and have some fun while I'm there, haven't been since 2000. I guess it'll just be me and flipper in the ocean somewhere <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'll be flying there thank goodness. I drove one time and that was enough.

One year on the beach I saw what I thought was a ladies brown wig floating on the water <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I proceeded to pick it up out the water to find it's owner and saw that it was a jellyfish that stings <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> ...Oh boy was I surprized.... As I splashed running out of the water, I almost step on a stingray, so that was a fun day.


Leah - As long as your H is trying you have a chance. As long as he's moving opposite you're in good hands..The pathway that usually leads to most affairs, not all, are in this order:

Offence/Bitterness/Envy/Hatred/Betrayal-Affair/Adultery/Shame and guilt........

You'll find that most WS's are dealing with an offence or unforgiveness, maybe even from 10 years ago, they never addressed in the marriage. This thing slowly grew over the years until they just blew.

A WS who is still with the OM/OW is always stuck back and forth between guilt and shame. Until they move forward, they can't heal. When coming back to there mate, they still must deal with (point A) (offence/bitterness, etc) they must forgive themselves and forgive there mate, otherwise it's a continued cycle...

Offence - The WS will keep something lodge in the back of there mind something that happened in the relationship that was painful never letting it go.

Bitterness - The offence is now grown and when things happen they are sharp with words, quick tempered, not willing to assist you in things you once shared.

Envy/Hatred - Now they begin to want there own space, the single life, own money. They don't like what you have to offer, they see things different,say to themselves were not compatible now....

Betrayal - EA/PA - They are Now distant, cold,withdrawn, they stay gone longer from home, strange activity is happening, all the while you don't know why, you're puzzled, you think it's because of a past spat a few days ago, etc, then when you finally do talk they say, I love you, but not in love with you, you are like stunned? whats happening?...Until (D-day) This is why we the BS are caught off guard...Then they move on from there as if we never existed and we are left dumbfounded and wounded....

Anyway remember that some WS's feel so unworthy when they return they can't even pick there head up and look you in the eye. Not all slow progress is due to not trying, but they are too burdened down with shame and guilt. Remember that the prodical son said," I am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants".

The prodical son felt he lost his place in the house and relationship as many WS's when they return. It's sad to say, but lots of WS men feel prostituted and used by OW when they return, some WS's don't return exactly for that reason, they feel to dirty and violated...

Anyway the Lord is there to wash there sins away when they are ready.... hang in there, good things can happen.

Hi - Wallace, petvet, wgtt,mmq and anyone is missed..
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/06/04 10:32 PM
Hi All,

Well my father and my brother are flying into town for my YD's graduation (which is next Friday). You can't believe how much of a dissarry my house is in at the moment. I am in the middle of renovating the kitchen and two bathrooms in my house. Had I known they were going to come into town... I would of held off and waited until they came and went.

My Dad announced to me that he has to go in for surgery to remove a lump in his arm because the doctors have determined that it's Cancer. So the riff between my Dad and my MOm seems to be subsiding due to this latest news.

it's been quite the month so far! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

avondale...

I like what you had to say to your "H", and the way you stated it. Have you heard anything from him at this point? I don't believe your going to cause anything to happen at this point, because of what you did... you both agreed on communicating on a regular basis and you deserve to know why he isn't living up to his end of the agreement.

EC...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Quote by EC

One year on the beach I saw what I thought was a ladies brown wig floating on the water . I proceeded to pick it up out the water to find it's owner and saw that it was a jellyfish that stings ...Oh boy was I surprized.... As I splashed running out of the water, I almost step on a stingray, so that was a fun day.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL... you had me rolling with that one.

So your going back to the beach? Hopefully you don't find any ladies wigs floating around in the water again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Remember to enjoy your time with your children, and I will have you in my thoughts and prayers during your trip.

Petvet...

You must be having a good time now that tax season is over. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WGTT, Leah, MMQ, and anyone that I have missed... I hope you are all doing well.

Hope everyone has a nice day, and a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 05/07/04 02:22 PM
Hi all,

I had to laugh... just a few days past posting to you all that I was going to try to continue to hang in there, everything seemed to fall apart. I ended up posting in recovery about not knowing if I could continue to hold on much longer. I must seem like such a fickle mess. I'm trying but I'm getting pretty worn out in the process. I have received some encouraging posts and I am continuing to seek God about all of it.

WALLACE,

How are things with your girlfriend? Are you still together? I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. I hope everything will be okay with his arm. Perhaps this might bring your folks back together again.

I hope everything goes well with your daughters graduation. Is she your youngest? I'm sorry I don't recall knowing the ages of your children.
Keep looking up and God bless!

E.C.

Wow, countdown is getting close. I hope that your time with your daughters is really positive. Stay away from any floating ladies wigs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks for writing about the affair cycle. I think my husband might be stuck somewhere in the shame, guilt place, although he would never express that to me. He needs to return to the Lord so he can be free from it all. How I pray that someday he will seek God's forgiveness and find the release from all that haunts him from his past. I also want to show him God's grace and mercy by my responses to him but I need to balance that with boundaries and all. Sometimes it can feel like a juggling act. I just need God's wisdom on it all.

AVONDALE,

Have you had any conversation with your husband yet? What you wrote sounded very pleasant and well written. I will pray your encounter goes well.

Hi to Petvet, WGTT and anyone else out there. Hope you all have a wonderful weekend!
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 05/07/04 02:23 PM
Hi all,

I had to laugh... just a few days past posting to you all that I was going to try to continue to hang in there, everything seemed to fall apart. I ended up posting in recovery about not knowing if I could continue to hold on much longer. I must seem like such a fickle mess. I'm trying but I'm getting pretty worn out in the process. I have received some encouraging posts and I am continuing to seek God about all of it.

WALLACE,

How are things with your girlfriend? Are you still together? I'm so sorry to hear about your dad. I hope everything will be okay with his arm. Perhaps this might bring your folks back together again.

I hope everything goes well with your daughters graduation. Is she your youngest? I'm sorry I don't recall knowing the ages of your children.
Keep looking up and God bless!

E.C.

Wow, countdown is getting close. I hope that your time with your daughters is really positive. Stay away from any floating ladies wigs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thanks for writing about the affair cycle. I think my husband might be stuck somewhere in the shame, guilt place, although he would never express that to me. He needs to return to the Lord so he can be free from it all. How I pray that someday he will seek God's forgiveness and find the release from all that haunts him from his past. I also want to show him God's grace and mercy by my responses to him but I need to balance that with boundaries and all. Sometimes it can feel like a juggling act. I just need God's wisdom on it all.

AVONDALE,

Have you had any conversation with your husband yet? What you wrote sounded very pleasant and well written. I will pray your encounter goes well.

Hi to Petvet, WGTT and anyone else out there. Hope you all have a wonderful weekend!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/07/04 08:48 PM
Leah - I am so sorry to hear of your latest anxieties. I quickly went through your thread in Recovery forum. You got a lot of good responses. I know this is a difficult thing to walk through. I had a question -Does “Foreverhers” know you personally? He seems very familiar with you. When he asked for your H’s first name, I thought it might be to pray specifically for him but it appears he is going to write a letter to your H. If this is correct, I am a little concerned. Why would your H receive anything from a perfect stranger? In fact, it may mess up your marriage more, because your H could wonder why you’re interacting with another man online. That thought leads to all kinds of other things. Anyway, just wanted you to think it through. Perhaps your pastor or another friend could write a letter instead?

On another note, how old is your computer? Is there ANY chance there is spyware on it? Again, if you’re getting personal emails from a guy (even if they are through MB friendships) I would be concerned. How would you like it if your H was getting emails from women from a website you weren’t a member of? I’m sorry if this sounds harsh! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am just getting bells ringing and red lights flashing all over the place when I read your other thread. I really care for you and don’t want something like this (appearance of improper relationship) to interfere with your future, regardless of what happens in your marriage. I hope I haven't stepped too hard on your toes, I am just looking out for you and have come to care for you. The words you write everyone, not just this thread, are so sweet and encouraging. I don't want you to get sucked up into something that could do more damage.

Me - I had sent that email to H on May 4. Still no response. I am positive he checks his mail several times a day,, so I’m not sure what’s going on. It gets my hopes up when I don’t hear from him (what if he’s reconsidering his actions??) but I doubt that’s the case. I just want a reply to know what’s going on in his head.

How is everyone else doing? I hope you all have a great weekend.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 05/10/04 06:38 PM
AVONDALE,

Thanks so much for your concern for me. You brought up some very valid concerns - most of which I have considered before. I have often wondered if my husband has the ability to monitor my computer activities. He's very computer savvy and intelligent in that way. I'm always getting these pop-ups which say something to the effect of "There is illegal spy ware on your computer system" I don't know if it's legit or just some gimmick. I've mentioned it to my husband and he says never click on that because it could give the computer a virus etc...

After considering it, I don't write anything on line that I would feel I need to hide from him. There is no illicit correspondence or anything. I do appreciate your concerns about ForeverHers. I don't know him personally, only through MB. He is someone who has always stood out to me as being a Godly man with much character. He also seems to be HUGELY commited and in love with his wife. If I remember correctly, she was actually engaged to someone else. He prayed, pursued her, and patiently waited for her to see truth. There story is a powerful testimony! You would be encouraged to read it. I wish I knew how to pull up his old threads for you. If there ever was a situation that seemed hopeless, it was theirs. Yet God worked a miracle for them. I pray He will do the same for you and me too!

He uses Scripture as the basis of counsel with all those he writes to. He has written other e-mails to different ones in recovery with hopes of being able to help them in a more private manner without having to broadcast certain details to everybody.

I agree that my husband would not be very receptive towards any letter from him. I have shared with him that I write on this forum and that there are some here who have been such a help and encouragement to me. I've wondered if he ever looks on this forum. Actually, I think it would be wonderful if he did. But, I don't think he cares enough about the topic to take the time.

Avondale, I will exercise caution in my communication with ForeverHers. I appreciate you being caring enough to bring this to my attention. I think a lot of you, too and would want to be sure you stayed safe and on the right path. Please, always feel free to do the same for me.

I would love to hear your husband was reconsidering his decision! Maybe he really is thinking and that is why the delay. I pray so.

Did you have a Happy Mother's Day? Did you spend the day with your children? I hope it was good. Take care and thanks again. I'll write below about what happened here.

MY WEEKEND

This weekend had some major BIG discussions between my H and I. At one point, I told him I didn't think I could continue the marriage as it now is. He was very angry in response. But, I feel I said some things that really have needed to be said. I can no longer continue to accept his disrespect and unkind ways. I want more than a room-mate situation marriage. As much as I've tried to hang in there for the girls, I think my endurance has reached its limit.

He did talk a lot with me and said he wanted to try to have something more between us. He said he would be willing to go to counselling and he apologized for his actions. But, he would later go on to get very upset when another issue came out. He isn't use to me standing my ground as much as I did this weekend. So... we shall see what happens.

Trust all of you are doing well. Hope you all have a great week!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/10/04 10:44 PM
Hi All,

Hope everyone had a nice "Mother's Day"!

Just thought I would drop a quick line. With everything being upside down at my house with the renovations, my YD's graduation this Friday, my Dad coming into town, and my G/F doing whatever she is doing, it's a real whopper of a week.

Leah...

I know you have a good head on your shoulders and I know you will be careful... but I feel the same way avondale does in conjunction with
"foreverhers" wanting to know where your located, etc. When I read that... flags went up, and bells started ringing all over the place. Just a word of caution... better to be safe than sorry. I'm sure he is a really nice guy... but for the time being... I would try and keep it simple.

I'm sorry to hear that you and your "H", are slipping down the slippery slope. I know that when one person sees things one way, and the other person is looking at their "M" from a whole other perspective and they are called on it. They usually go into the defensive mode and try to justify their actions... only because in most cases they think they are doing things the way the would like to see them accomplished. Hopefully you and your "H" can find a happy medium to come to terms on... for the sake of your "M" and your family.

Thank you for reply concerning my Dad. Hopefully he will be able to go on with his life as normal as possible. He probably will not have to go in for Surgery until August of this year. That is what his Doctor is stating for the time being.

Concerning my G/F... things are not all that wonderful at the moment. We seem to be drifting apart... and I'm not really interested in putting a lot of effort into a relationship that has a lot of game playing involved in it. So, I'm just taking it one day at a time. We went from seeing each other about every other day... to now we are lucky if we see each other once a week. We seem to be taking different paths of interest.

avondale...

You still have not heard anything back concerning your email?

Sometimes, no news is good news... but he should have a little common courtesy to at least write some sort of a response to your email.

Did you have a good "Mother's Day"? Did you spend time with your daughter?

Petvet...

Were you abducted by your G/F? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You tow must be doing good... because we haven't heard a peep out of you for awhile.

Keep up the good work my friend.

EC...

My prayers are with you my friend. I hope all goes well for you during your YD's graduation.

I'll write again... when I get a chance. This week is pretty hectic though.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/10/04 11:48 PM
Hope all the moms on board had a wonderful day Sunday. Mine was low-key but enjoyable.

Wallace - Do you feel bereft or upset about the ways things are with your GF ? (You don’t seem to be.) At least you seem to be drifting apart naturally, as opposed to having a big fight scenario. I hope your weekend goes well. I guess this is your last child to graduate from high school? Maybe you should rent a Porta-john if your bathroom is still being renovated, LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I’m glad your dad is able to wait on the surgery. Do you plan to “talk” to him about his marriage while he’s with you? Or do you not want to get involved?

EC - I know you are probably going to leave this weekend. You are in my prayers. I think you will do great seeing everyone. Remember, you’re there for your DAUGHTER and nothing else. You have every reason to hold your head high, so don’t let the enemy start shooting darts at you with little lies or bad thoughts. We all love you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Petvet - I think Wallace was right, maybe you DID get abducted. Perhaps he eloped?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Leah - It’s GREAT that you were able to plainly say some things to your H that have probably needed to be said for a while now. I know that must have been a tough conversation to even begin, much less to carry through.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Leah Said : He said he would be willing to go to counseling and he apologized for his actions
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That’s great. It’s the first step. You should strike while the iron is hot and make an appointment ASAP

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Leah Said : But, he would later go on to get very upset when another issue came out </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is this during your serious conversation, or when something unrelated to that talk occurs? Either way, it’s quite possible that counseling and time would take care of that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Leah said: He isn't use to me standing my ground as much as I did this weekend. So... we shall see what happens. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that’s great! Keep him off balance, LOL, as long as it’s done with honesty.

WGTT - How is the recovery going? An update would be great.

Me - Still no word from hubby about the email. This is very much unlike him. It makes my heart wonder if he’s having second thoughts and just isn’t sure yet - and if I write him again he might decide to go ahead with the D. So here I wait, at least a little while longer...
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/11/04 11:24 AM
Hi all! Yes, I was abducted by that _____ Sasser
bug. I have had so many problems with computer bugs lately. I have purchased several anti virus programs, so hopefully I will be protected in the future.

I hope all the mothers on this thread had a good Mother's day.

Avondale: I don't know how you you do it. At some point, the stress is going to get you. My mindset has always been to be proactive rather than sit by and just wait. I am concern for you. Your H has too much power in his hands. Please keep your guard up. You have been hurted enough.

Leah: If you think there is still hope with your M, keep trying to work on it. As someone has said, your kids need an intact family.

Wallace: Sorry to hear about your relationship with your GF. Take it easy. Don't be pushed into a M. As someone said earlier, you don't want to get into multiple marriages. If it does not fit, don't force it. Your dad cheating on your mother, what is your dad thinking?

Me: Things are going well. I am moving forward. Buddy and I are cruising along.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/13/04 09:37 PM
HI All,

Well I got my renovations done for the most part for now at least. WoW!!! talk about moving on the fast track.

My Dad is flying in tonight, and my YD's graduation is tomorrow... so hopefully it's all down hill from here.

You know what my YD did? She told her school that my G/F is now her mother. So when they announce her name... the Parent's of each child are suppose to come up to the front of the stage as each child gives their speech. Well they know that my G/F is not her Parent... unless she told them we had got "M". So tommorrow night... they are going to call us up by the same last name. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

When I heard about this... I was not to happy about it. I told my G/F about it... and she thought it was the greatest thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

If my YD's mother shows up to the graduation (we don't think that she will... she was not given an invitation to the best of my knowledge per my YD's request) the fireworks will go when they have this announcement if my exW is there.

I told my YD, that she shouldn't have done that, and she should get it changed. She said it was to late, that there was nothing that she could do to change it. I tried to get a hold of the school to see what I could do about this... but I haven't heard anything back, concerning the whole thing.

If I get it changed... my G/F will be hurt... and I really don't care what my exW thinks or feels about it. I know that's insensitive cncerning my exW... but sometimes you have to live with all the damage you created and live with the ramifications. Hopefully, my exW will not be there... so it shouldn't be an issue as far as that is concerned.

Well... I hope everyone has a great day, and a great weekend. I'm sure I'm going to have some good stories to tell after this is all said and done.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 05/13/04 10:11 PM
Hi All,

Not much happening on my end...

Getting ready to go on my trip starting Monday..

At first I started feeling uneasy having to see OM, until the Lord gave a scripture:

They that observe lying vanities forsake there own mercies.

In other words it's best I walk before OM/Exww and keep my joy and peace and not be moved by the lying vanity they will display. It's not true happiness, it's a lying vanity, why punish myself? I really need to enjoy my daughters while I'm there...

Ok another subject -

I was flipping through channels on the radio the other day(AM)and I heard a mind provoking statement from someone, regarding friendships/relationships.

They said:

When you want something from someone in a friendship/relationship, you must know what they are capable of giving. If you don't, you'll be disappointed with false hopes and expectations.

Example: If you want milk to make butter, you go to the cow and reach for the utters.

Now - If you want milk to make butter, do you go to an elephant? No..

Why?

Because, you don't go looking for an elephants utters to get milk to make butter,its unnatural. Learn an elephants nature and you'll realize, give him "peanuts" and he'll move mountains for you.

Sooo.....know your friendships/relationships and you'll know what to give and what to expect and be at peace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> .

Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/14/04 01:09 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: Congrats to your YD for te graduation. Why do you not think that your Exw will not come to graduation? Even though she did not receive an invitation, she still may show up. I'm quite sure your OD has told her. You need to cover your bases. It's best to be prepared than sorry. Your GF seems to be trying to push your towards marriage. Watch out! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

EC: You listen to Dr. Laura too I see. I heard the same statement concerning the elephant. It makes sense does'nt it?

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 05/14/04 04:35 PM
HELLO EVERYONE,

WALLACE,

How did graduation go? I've been thinking of you and praying for you and your family today. That's a tough situation with your daughter putting your GF's name on the parents line. Whew... Hope that all works out okay. Your GF must still be quite attached if she was pleased with that. Are things any better with her? Hope to hear a positive report from you later. Take care.

EC,

I'm glad to hear your holding on to some scripture to help you get through your trip ahead. You've got the right idea about focusing on the Lord and right thinking. My thoughts and prayers will be with you too. I hope the trip turns out to be a really great time for you and your girls.

AVONDALE,

Any word yet? You sure are being patient and strong! I don't know if I could of last that long without communication with my husband. But then again, maybe I could. I guess no communication is better than negative, maddening communication. That seems to be more descriptive of where we've been lately.

You asked if the negative talk was all in the same conversation. Unfortunately not. It was interdespersed throughout the weekend. He can be extremely unkind and hurtful at times. Last weekend was definitely one of those times.

I hope you are doing well and that you might hear something positive from your husband soon. My prayers continue to be with you. God bless!

Hi PETVET and WGTT

Hope your both doing well too.

ME,

Things are still not very good at home. I think I am slowly beginning to accept this is not going to work. It's taking me forever to "get there". But I have a friend who once shared with me, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results" Well, I keep trying to stay married and hoping for something different from the relationship. It's just not changing. I guess, EC, I'm going to the elephant expecting to get milk. (Great analogy)

Anyhow, I'm trying to take it a day at a time. We shall see what God has ahead. Hope you all have a great weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/14/04 07:38 PM
Leah- Glad to hear from you, I was wondering if something had happened, since we hadn't heard from you in a week.

Wallace - I hope graduation goes well. It's interesting that your daughter gave your GF's name. Does that make it more difficult to disintangle yourself from her (GF)? I'm sure it's wishful thinking on YD part, and could postpone any timetable that was going towards "breaking up" with GF. Keep us posted.

EC - We're all praying for you. I'm looking forward to a full report of everything when you get back. Good and not-so-good.

Petvet - Great to hear from you, as always. I don't know how I'm able to just "hang in there" but I am. God's grace, I think! I'm just not as proactive as you.

WGGT - What's new with you?

Me - Well, I've had several phone calls over the last 3 days for Hubby from people who know he doesn't live here, trying to reach him. One said that they've left messages at his other numbers (work, apt., or cell). I finally called his cell phone to let him know about one call in particular because it was about an immediate gig that night. He didn't answer, and so I left message of "I'm not sure what's going on, but several people have left messages for you about jobs, and it doesn't seem you're returning them. I haven't heard from you since I sent that email over a week ago, could you please reply so I'll know what's going on?" I was thinking all kinds of things (drunk, remorse, out of town with OW) Then my curiosity got the best of me and I drove by his apt. early this morning and his car isn't there. That makes me think he's with OW where she lives out of state. I still can't figure out why he hasn't responded, he returned calls and emails when he went to be with her before. I'm OK, just waiting another week or so and will contact him again.

<small>[ May 14, 2004, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: leftwith8kids Re: Tough Love - 05/15/04 09:15 PM
hi all wanted to give you an update, i don't have access to a computer anymore so when i visit my parent's i try to post. Well the update on my daughter is that she is back home with me.

My stbx showed up while i was at work and started going through the house. Luckily my neighbor was home and called me and told me what was happening. I called the police due to restraining order and headed to the house, his mother and him were in the house cleaning it out when i arrived with the police. His mother had a unregistered loaded gun in the car and the police cited her for it. My stbx obviously has had no help because he couldn't put two sentences together and his mother was acting like I had abused him for years and that was why he was so screwed up.. Let see maybe the gallons of mouthwash a day he was drinking and the 20 Ativan on top of it may have something to do with it... Well the coincedence of it all was that I had just got the papers to serve the police in VA where my daughter was and to serve for the divorce. He saved me the trouble I was able to serve him on our front lawn. He was in amazement, he was floored.

Anyway after they were escorted out of town, I went back to work finished my day, and head to VA to pick up my daughter. She is glad to be home she said he is so weird he is crazy one minute nice then mean. His parent's on the other hand have this vendetta to get back at me and have told him to never give me support and to never speak to me and of course he listens to their every word.

He hasn't seen his kids in a month his attorney called me and said he wanted to see them, of course he is only allowed supervised visitation by me, so he tells him that it is too far of a drive 4hours and to inconvenient too have to be under those circumstances. Mind you he was on the phone 2 days before telling my best friend that all he wants is two hours to hold me and see me and that i am his whole world and he misses me so much. That part does rip my heart out because even though he is crazy my heart is breaking apart.

well that is the quickie update, I wish I could just let go, I don't understand why I would miss someone that is incapable of understanding what love is and why I lose sleep and don't eat over it. Oh I almost forgot the biggest whammy of all. I lost my job Friday due to being gone so much having to pick up kids here and there. I figure ok God you have a plan for me lets just get it into motion a little quicker K? I guess I should write a book. The tales of mommax8 and the saga never ends.........
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 05/16/04 06:10 PM
Hi All,


Wallace: How did it go at your YD's grad? Did they call you and your G/F up as H/W? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I know that has to heart breaking for your YD that her mom has pushed her off to the side.

Ya know, recently I was reading this older book regarding relationships, and this older book made mention of another older book from 1976 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , the titled is called " Runaway Wives". So I was curious to know what it was about and found it on the Internet and ordered it. It's pretty interesting,some strong language at times.It's mainly about a woman interviewing other women who abandoned there homes and families on a whim, she's getting all the why's from them, and what there lives were like afterwards....All the interviews are from different states in the US....

What's sad is a lot of these women in the book, don't love themselves, having lots of lowself esteem. You see the same pattern that they never connected with there kids as a mother and when conflict arouse, as in any home, these women took it as " You don't like me or You don't love me" mentallity even from there 2 or 6 year old <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> and as that grew with her kids, she saw the same in her eyes with her husband until the only way of escape was an affair, or leave. You find the same trait in most of them " Conflict Avoiders"... What's sad is they were more unhappy after they left, no direction and a wandering life..Still numb and void...yet looking for love to fill the void, in and out of all kinds of relationships.....

Anyway, I'm still reading, I can only take so much of it at a time, it's a sad book of women who are trying to come to grips about themselves, what happened, guilt, feeling worthless as a mother, wanting there husbands still, yet still caught up in all the mess they gotten themselves into with OP away from home, there actions they took have little to do with the husband or children, it's about things they have to personally deal with...


Petvet - Yes, I listen to Dr. Laura sometimes if I'm flipping through stations. These days flipping through the radio stations is like digging through the trash can to find something to eat <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> so up popped Dr Laura that day.

I be laughing most of the time because people call in and can't asked a question, she has to end up asking them, so what do want? so what do you want? so what do you want? geez. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale - Be at peace about where you H is. I know you still care greatly, he's still your best friend. Even me being DV'd I still would be concerned where my exw was if nobody could reach her, so it's natural to be concerned, we're not heartless, yet they might be. Eventhough your H is with OW still, it's still flattering to him, that he knows you are waiting, right now you're his insurance policy, life I might say. A mans ego is boosted when a woman has an eye for him, that's how he got in the mess he's in, in the first place. There are kind and lovely words only you know that you can say that will cause him to yield and ponder. Be nice when you can, don't expect immediate results, you have seed time and harvest time.

Leah - You must keep trying and don't give up. You must exhaust every possible way of communication and tools. You don't want any regretts hanging over your head for life if things ever collasped. I think the best opportunity of recovery is when both spouses are in the same house...What an opportunity...It's hard, but when we go through a restore we have to take off the victim hat, otherwise we'll still accuse the FWS and not know it.

One key thing is, writting out to your H, this is where you guys are, this is what needs to happen, and this is where you want to be. He needs to see it on paper. This is only fair to both of you guys to equally work at it. Just because you aren't getting the milk and butter, you can't get tripped up and become a WS also and be more wounded later,( not that you done anything) Just because some people are getting milk in there relationships, some are getting half and half...sometimes half empty and sometimes half full <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> So be patient...


Momma8 (with all those kids, an army I'd say)- Sorry to hear you lost your job....One thing I can say, is that your kids are going to appreciate your sacrifice later in life. They'll have a wonderful testimony. If I were you, keep all your notes and the things you are going through, oneday it all could flourish into a book. Many times we think what we are going through is all about us, but lots of times it's for the glory of God. Where we are now, can have a lot to do with how we prosper in the future. "The pressures of life will show you where your wealth is". At some point in your life you have to speak it to yourself and say " I'll never be broke another day in my life" enough is enough and believe it. Hang in there, you're a tough moma8
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/17/04 02:32 AM
Wallace - Yes, we want to know what happened when they called your name(s) at graduation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Was your XW there?

EC - Thanks for your encouragement to me. I bet you're on your way to your YD graduation now, or in the morning. Let us know how it went.

Mommax8 - Sorry to hear about your job. I'm sure you'll find something; after all, you can manage a large household and that's on-the-job training for all kinds of work. Are you able to work full-time, are you on any type of gov't assistance that would prohibit it? I know being a mom is a full time job and I don't want to diminish that, but with all those kids you probably need some extra income. I'm not sure what your financial situation is and I think I remember your family not being able to help much, maybe cuz they've done so much already(?). Keep us posted.

Me - Well, I heard from H. He said he didn't respond cuz it was end of school, had to tie up loose ends, grades, etc. He wants to get together when I get back from vacation, so end of May probably. I'll let y'all know.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 05/18/04 12:23 AM
Read an email Avondale sent me back in March and browsed back to MB. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Spent the better part of three hours reading all this stuff in TL and enjoyed every minute of it.

EC - At first I started feeling uneasy having to see OM That statement rings a bell. I spent many months away from our home Church because of OM and my wife. After listening to my children and going back there I discovered it's a lot harder on him that it is on me. I was concerned about how I would feel or react to him but every time I attempt to approach him he is sure to go in the opposite direction.

Yes...God is good!

That book sounda like a good one. My wife does suffer from low self-esteem and is a HUGE conflict avoider. I was to to an extent so I guess it hurt both of us in the long run.


Leah2be - Sorry to hear that things are not good at home. I'll be sure to add you and your family to my prayer list. Yes...God does have plans for us, I just wish sometimes he would let us in on the secrets and the time frame he goes by.

Avondale - I take it you two are still married. If so then good, I guess that always leaves room for hope. Wait another week, you have the patience of a Saint. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Leftwith8kids - my heart and prayers go out to you. And also for a job and God's guideance in every step that you take. I am glad that you say and alone, there is a huge difference between being alone and being lonely. I would take alone any day of the week.

Me - A long time ago I was on here as Trusting Her, had to change that to Trusting Him as the her was not getting me anywhere.

Wife's divorce was final last September on the 4th. According to her God put this new man in her life on the 20th of the same month to bring her happiness and she has been with him ever since. Already adopted the entire family as his mother, sister and son were all at their house for Christmas.

That's the bad news. Good news is I still have faith in God and He has brought me a long way in peace and joy. After almost 11 months of me being out of the house my former wife has gone back into counseling. I do see this as a good sign since she told me she no longer needed counseling last June as when I moved out all her problems would be solved.

A close friend to both of us shared the other day that my former had told him that while she had many nice things and even a new BF she still felt empty inside, not knowing who to trust or who to love. Maybe....just maybe the Holy Spirit is working on her. If so that at least gets us in the same book now. For so long we've been going in opposite directions.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/18/04 01:17 PM
Hi all!

Mommax8:Sorry to hear aboutn your job. Advice: Start looking immediately for something else. I hope your employer gave you a severance package.

Wallace: How did the graduation go?

EC: I heard about the book you reference in your last post. I may need to read it myself. I am quite sure it is enlightning.

Avondale: Are you heading to a place of sun for your vacation?

Me: I am just prodding along.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/18/04 09:32 PM
Hi All!

Well... I got through it all. Got my Father on the Plane last night. YD graduated Friday night. Still have a ton of things to catch up on.

Well my exW did not show up to my YD's graduation to the best of my knowledge.

When they called my daughter up to the stage... they also called me and my G/F up to th stage as well. I about died when they announced my G/F as my wife as well as my YD's mother. I'm thinking to myself, "please Lord, don't let my exW be here". If she had been, all hell would of probably broke lose. All in all... my YD had a very nice graduation and cermony.

I took everyone out for dinner after it was all said and done with... we had a very late dinner because it lasted about 2 and half hours.

We all had a very good time.

I'll give you more info later... got to get back to work.

I'll be in touch with everyone probably tomorrow.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ May 18, 2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/21/04 06:56 PM
Wallace - I'm glad things went well at your YD graduation. So did the "married names" announcement reinforce your GF desire to get married?

Petvet - how often do you see/talk to your GF? I'm just curious, you don't mention much about her. I hope you're not scared that we might jump on your case about something... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC - Hope to hear your report soon!

Trusting Him - good to hear from you. It sounds like you still have hope for your XW to turn around. Is that right?

WGTT - Haven't heard from you recently, is everything going OK?

Leah - likewise, haven't heard from you. Have you made a decision or still waiting?

Momma/Left - I hope you're doing well. Have you found a new job? I know you're busy, with settling into a new house and job hunting. Keep us posted.

Wow, remember when we used to only have 3-4 names to keep up with? I'm glad for the company on this thread though! Don't lose touch over the summer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 05/21/04 07:17 PM
Hello Everyone

MOMMA8,
Sorry to hear of your struggles with your job and everything. I hope you find just the right thing very soon. As far as still missing your husband, I think that is very understandable. You share eight children and many years together. Love like that doesn't disappear even though we sometimes wonder why not. Even with all the turmoil and heartache that my H brought into our lives, I know I still care deeply for him. I will continue to keep you in my prayers.

AVONDALE,

I hope you are doing well. Keep finding your strength in God. He is our faithful and ever present help.

EC,

Looking forward to hearing about your time away at your daughters graduation. I hope everything went well. I've been praying for you. Thanks for your encouragement to keep trying.

TRUSTING HIM,

You have the name right. For along time, I too kept trying to trust my husband. But after years of continued deception and infidelity, I have learned there is only One who can be 100% trusted. The more I have learned to trust Him, the more at peace I am.

I am glad for you that you seem to have learned the secret for finding peace and joy admidst the struggles. God is faithful and he is sure to be our strength and our Guide as we look to Him for lifes answers. I don't know your story but it sounds as if you, too, have been a work in process. Keep looking up!

WALLACE,

Glad to hear your doing well and that your daughter's graduation went well. Are you and your GF back together? It seems maybe things have worked there way back for you two. But maybe I'm reading in between the lines too much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

PETVET,

Life seems to be keeping you busy but going well. You and Buddy must be hanging out quite a bit together. I'm glad you are happy again!

ME,

I am doing well. I feel like I've gotten back on course after a couple of rocky months. I need to constantly check my focus. If I can keep the right perspective, things are so much better!!
I need to always be the best person I can be without focusing much on the relationship with my husband. When I start looking to him as a source, I am left sad, hurt, and angry.

I have chosen once again to just go on with life with God and my girls. If my husband chooses to join us that would be great but I can not continually try to have a relationship with someone who chooses not to have a relationship with me. It is his choice. Meanwhile, I'll continue to be kind to him and to be the best wife possible. And I will continue to pray for him and us.

Hope all of you have a great weekend!!!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 05/21/04 08:47 PM
Hi Everyone,


I'm passing through quickly, I'll catch everyone later, but just a quick update.....

The trip went good, OD and YD were happy to see me. I spent a little time at OD's place. YD's graduation was great, very touching. Me being there was a start of something new for me, OD and YD. So things ended on a good note. Went to the beach, it was great listening to the waves crash and seeing the water roll on the sand. No wigs floating in the water this time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I never offically saw exw but in passing quickly on a road but she never saw me because I was in a rental car. It was weird? my heart didn't leap for excitement and I had no emotion. She looked like a stranger from my past? There was no connection, as if someone I used to know? Last time I saw her was 2001.

I now know, most of what I think is from how things used to be and not currently how they are, my imagination has gotten the best of me. I guess this is what is meant by old soul-ties and " Lying Vanities"...

After I saw her in that quick glimpse I knew then I could care-less who she was with, even OM. So that was a closing of a door for me.

Thanks everyone for your prayers especially Avondale and Leah, the whole trip was a smooth one...

With that behind me now and CS ending, I feel I'm on another side of it all.....


Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/21/04 10:03 PM
Hi All,

Hope everyone is doing well, and I apologize for not getting back sooner... I have been real busy.

avondale...

So you are going to get to the bottom of everything with your "H" later on this month? I'll bet your feeling a little nervous about the whole thing. Extra Prayers for you during your meeting.

You have been standing for your "M", and IMHO I think your "H" is really foolish not taking notice of that fact. There are not many woman out there that would do that... and the people that are able to stand for their "M", are very speciial people indeed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by avondale

I'm glad things went well at your YD graduation. So did the "married names" announcement reinforce your GF desire to get married?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMO... I think it did. So much so... that she is frustrating herself with the "M" thing and all. She is getting inpatient... these are by her own words. So much so, that she puts herself in a bad mood knowing that we are both not ready for "M" yet. I keep telling her to give it time and it will all work out... but if she keeps forcing the issue... she is going to scare me away.


Trusting Him...

It's been quite some time since I've seen you post. Good to hear from you and see you post. Feel free to jump right in and let us know how your making out. We are here to support you anyway we can, just let us know.

Momax/left...

I'm sorry to hear about you losing your job. You have had a real time of it... but it sounds like you are doing better now than you were before. Keep us posted when you can... and keep hanging in there. It gets better... it just takes time... sometimes a lot of time.

Leah...

I'm glad to hear... that your staying the course for the time being. Who knows if you stay focused on yourself and put the Lord first... your "H" may notice the changes and do a complete 180. If he doesn't... you will still be a better person in the long run.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by Leah:

Glad to hear your doing well and that your daughter's graduation went well. Are you and your GF back together? It seems maybe things have worked there way back for you two. But maybe I'm reading in between the lines too much.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right now... we will have days when everything will be going well... then she will kick back in on the "M" thing and get all flustered because we are not going to get married in the time frame that she would like to. When she gets in this type of a mood... it really raises a red flag to me.

EC...

I'm glad to hear that everything went well for you at your YD's graduation.

Did you and your daughters get to talk things through, and clear the air on some of the issues that were present?

I can imagine how you feel after seeing your exW. It has been a long time... and I'm sure she did seem like a stranger. I believe in fact at this point in time... they are! I fully understand your feelings with what you posted... I think I would feel about the same way as well.

So you went to the beach? Good for you! I'll bet that was a nice feeling to be back at the beach again. Sorry to hear that you didn't find any floating wigs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet...

You know avondale brings up a good point there about not hearing about your G/F. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So feel free to give us all the news that's fit to print. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> j/k

Hope your doing well.

WGTT...

Hows things going with your "H"?

When you get a chance... let us know.

I hope everything is going well.

Me...

Well the circus sideshow continues.

The tax liability that the IRS granted me relief on is now back again and staring me right in the face. Only now... it's doubled, not counting penalties and interest. I talked with the IRS, and they said that to the best of their knowledge... I am not liable for my exW's failure to report her taxes... that it's just a glitch that their computer does... and not to worry about it. I told them, "yea right"! So I had to get my attorneys on it... because I have to go to Federal tax Court now. Just when you think it's over... it's not.

Well I hope everyone has a nice weekend. I'm going up to the mountains tomorrow to clear my head... LOL

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/22/04 11:52 AM
Hi all!

EC: I'm glad the graduation and trip went well. I did not not get the wig in the water reference unless you are talking about hair falling out or something. Please enlighten me. I knew that you would handle seeing your exw with the right frame of mine. It's time to move on.

Avondale: Yes, Sweety, you have been keeping the candle lite (spelling <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). I hope you are not disappointed. You are a good woman.

Leah2be: Keep moving forward.

Mommax8: Continue to be proactive in your job search.

Wallace: I'm happy the graduation went well w/o a bloody fight occurring between your exw and G/F over the mother reference.

Me: Yes, I still have "The Bud". We talk three or four times daily and see eachother fairly regularly. I don't bring her up much because there is not any drama going on with us. I try to be low key about things. I try to look to the future and stay focused on the positive.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 05/24/04 03:13 PM
Hi All,


Petvet - My mention of the wig is in reference from an earlier post.

I posted:

One year on the beach I saw what I thought was a ladies brown wig floating on the water . I proceeded to pick it up out the water to find it's owner and saw that it was a jellyfish that stings ...Oh boy was I surprized.... As I splashed running out of the water, I almost step on a stingray, so that was a fun day.

So there you have it, no wigs this year floating in the water. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Trusting Him - Glad to here from you. Thats a good point you made that OM would more uncomfortable in my presence than I would be in his. I think those words will help lots of people in the future.

I read your comment where you said, after your exw caused you to move out, she thought all her problems would cease, because you are " were" the problem. However her problems only increased and revealed themselves that you were not the problem.

I can relate to that.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


Me: Didn't do much this weekend, went to my nieces graduation and spent time with family.


Hey - Where is everybody??

How was your weekends??...........
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/24/04 09:42 PM
EC - Glad to hear everything went well for you at YD graduation!. I told you so, LOL. As for weekend plans, I had none so I have nothing much to post.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am waiting to hear from H about dividing property. I don’t think this will be very messy, since at our last meeting in Feb. he seemed quite willing to split all his stuff. The main uncertainty to me is the house. I have sooooooo many memories and emotional attachments to this house and yard (we lived here 20 years and did so much together to improve it). Last week I was cutting flowers which had come from my dad’s house many years ago when we were first doing work in making the yard beautiful. I remembered H & I planting those same flowers. Ditto for all the “perfect” wallpaper that took me hours to pick out, etc... I know you guys can’t relate to all that very well, and I probably sound “sappy” but maybe some of the ladies can understand. It will be very difficult to leave. However, this is an old house, and I just got a quote from a guy for putting in a whole house automatic standby generator for $7500. Add to that the cost of supplemental yard work and probable new furnace, etc...and I don’t know if it’s worth the cost. WHAT IS THE PROCEDURE FOR DIVIDING THE HOUSE itself (not things in the house)? Don’t we get an appraisal? How many? From who? What figures into appraisal? Do the age of appliances figure into it? Any advice would be appreciated.

<small>[ May 24, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/24/04 10:59 PM
Hey All,

Petvet...

Thanks for the heads up on what's going on. You and your buddy sound like me and my G/F. We talk at least twice a day to each other (If not more), and see each other a minimum of twice a week. Sounds like your focused all right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

EC...

Sounds like you had a nice quiret weekend for the most part. Those are nice to have... when you can get one. I try to enjoy those whenever they come around.

I went up to the mountains in Colorado this weekend. I brought my G/F up Sunday afternoon as well. It's a nice drive... plus I was scoping out some places to do some fishing here in the next couple of weeks... for a three day weekend I'm getting ready for. All in all... I had nice relaxing weekend.

avondale...

I know how you feel about your house. I feel the same way about my house as well. I've been in my house for 25 years... and my kids know of no other home but this one. To replace it with a similiar house... it would cost me a small fortune. I may sell it to my "S", if and when I decide to get married again... but for now... it's still home... and a lot memories as well.

I'll tell you what I did concerning getting a fair appraisal on my home concerning dividing up the property. I called a real estate agent, and had them give my what is called a "fair market appraisal report". Most agents will do it for free, if they think they will be the listing agent when it comes time to sell the house. You can get one or as many as you would like. You then pick the one you want. I took the lowest one of course... because you either have to split in half the sale price of the house if and when you sell it... or you can buy your spouse out.

I told the Real Estate agent everything that was wrong with the house, so I could get as low an appraisal as I could get. I then turned it over to my attorney and we used it to establish the worth of the house.

I didn't have to buy my exW out... only because I had already paid her, her half of the house earlier. With all the money she took with forgeries and credit card cash advances she forged as well. The Judge looked at all of it... and said, "not only did you pay her, her half share of the house, but you also paid for anything above and beyond that.

Case was closed with her having the opportunity to appeal within 60 days (which she didn't). So long story short... she ended up not getting a thing. I'm sure your situation will be different. So get at least 3 estimates and then get together with your "H" and come to a decision as to which price you both want to agree on... especially if you have any thoughts of keeping the house. If you do sell it out right... most likely the sale price will be distributed between you evenly... 50% for you and the other half going to your "H".

Each State is different though... but if it's a No-Fault State... then that is most probably what will happen.

Hope everyone is having a good day for a Monday.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/25/04 11:26 AM
Hi all!

EC: I ordered "Runaway Wives" and it's interesting reading. Jellyfish and Stingrays are serious business.

Avondale: Yeah, you do need to get two or three appraisals. One little trick you might use. Get your settlement based on the appraisal. After the divorce is final (if it goes that way:eek: ), sell the house outright to get the remaining profit for yourself if you do not want to keep the house. Just food for thought.

Wallace: Mountains: what type of fishing is there in the Colorado mountains? Trout?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/25/04 11:29 AM
Petvet,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You said: Get your settlement based on the appraisal </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What does that mean? Can you elaborate? I know that's not your nature, but try <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> (sorry, I'm kinda new at this!)
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/25/04 04:40 PM
Hi All,

Petvet...

Your good! The kind of fish I will be going for is trout. In this one paticular area where I'm going... they are biting pretty good this time of year.

I don't keep them though. I catch them... and then release them back into the water.

avondale...

Are you planning on buying your "H" out and staying in your home? Depending on what you want to do... stay or sell IMHO will determine how you should approach the splitting of the home.

How's everyone else doing?

Hope everyone has a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 05/26/04 01:01 AM
Avondale: Yes, that would be righe...still have the hope and faith. Granted at times it falters and wavers but somehow God always manages to either give, put in place or lead me back in that direction.

Makes me wonder though, knowing that she just got back from a trip to Florida with her new BF and his son.

Leah2Be: *chuckles* Let's just say I've lowered my expectations for my former. It made a world of difference.

Yes...I would be a work in process, thanks to the many people here and knowing that He is my strenght and guide. I sometimes still think I am in denial about what all has happened but my therapist keeps telling me I'm not. Guess I just second guess myself to often.

It is nice to hear that you are on track and have the ability to keep yourself there. Your girls need that from you. Me...I'll just pray that your husband will choose to join all of you one day.

Wallace: Thanks...It has been a while. I found that I had to quit reading everything here. It kept opening up old wounds. But after Avondale's email and coming back to this forum I found it not near as painful. Who knows, maybe I'm healing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

IRS...Ouch! I ended up with all the back taxes from our marriage and even filed our returns this year. Former was actually quite nice about it and allowed me to claim the Head of Household and 2 kids this year. They will be hers nest year.

Go to court and get it straightened out. Otherwise those wonderful people at the IRS will keep after you.

EC: So now I only pray that since she is back in counseling that he will help her to see that it took 2 of us to get here and it will take 2 of us to get back.

Me: Confused...I think I stuck most about me in each section *beats head on keyboard*.

With my former going back to counseling and the nice things that she has done over the last several weeks I seem to have regressed. I thought I had made it to a point where I was over her. I guess those emotions and memories are a little harder to get over that I thought.

This was the first time the former had gone out of town without letting me or the children know where she was. Of course they asked me nost of the weekend where she was. I honestly have no idea children. With them not having heard from her since Friday the son broke down and called her late Sunday night. So now they know where she is and they start asking me who she is with. Again....Children, I do not know.

Monday morning they found out she had gone off with her new BF and son for the weekend. Now they are mad.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/26/04 02:22 AM
Trusting - It's always good to hear from you. It does indeed sound like you're making good progress. I'm saddened that your kids found out their mom has gone on a trip with OM and his child. What is their main emotion? Jealousy? Disgust?

Wallace - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You said: Are you planning on buying your "H" out and staying in your home? Depending on what you want to do... stay or sell IMHO will determine how you should approach the splitting of the home.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At this point I'm not sure. I'm actually having to make " reasons to sell/reasons to stay " point lists and see which one is longer. Lots of reasons to stay and lots of reasons to move. The columns are the same length! Arrrgh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 05/26/04 03:04 AM
avondale25: That's a hard one to answer. The youngest daughter would probably fall under disgust and then anger. Anytime she hears about him or is in his presence she regresses, becomes extremely clingy and reverts to baby talk.

The other 2? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> They have learned that is really does no good to express their feelings to their Mom as she always replies, "That's just how it has to be" or "You will just have to learn to deal with it." <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

While I know it is not good to dwell on the past acccording to the children not once has she asked them how any of this has affected them or how they are dealing with it. It's sort of hush hush. If you pretend nothing is wrong, eventually that huge elephant in the middle of the living room will go away. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 05/26/04 06:45 PM
Hi All

TRUSTING HIM

Sorry for the challenging weekend with former wife gone out of town. That is so hard!! I'll never forget when my "H" suddenly took off for another state to be with his GF on his birthday weekend. My children were totally bewildered and sad. They were too young at the time to know he was with someone else, although I think the oldest daughter kind of figured it out. It hurt so much to see their pain and sadness over why Daddy wasn't here for his birthday. Ouch. I'm so happy those days are behind us!

How old are your children? My daughters are 8, 10 and 12. They have been my biggest motivation for trying to keep this marriage together. I want so much for them to have stable,happy lives.


Hang in there as far as the feelings for your ex-wife goes. It took me so long to get past the pain of my husband's rejection. But God has been so faithful in filling that void!! It is now going on five years since that first horific D-day. Life is so much better now. Keep looking to the Lord He will see you through. It is a process. I remember often wishing I could just flip a switch to take away all the anguish and deep feelings I had for my husband. But it doesn't work that way. It just takes time. God bless, strengthen and encourage you!

WALLACE,

I hope everything gets straightened out with the IRS and your taxes. Also, I hope you and your GF can work out the differences of timing with wedding.

It sounds as if you had a nice weekend in the mountains. I love being outside and enjoying all of God's creation. It's a great way to find some peace in the stormy times of life! Keep looking up!

EC

I'm so happy to hear your positive report on your time away with your daughters. That's a great answer to prayer. I think its especially good that you've been able to find some closure there. It sounds as if you are truly moving forward. I wish you much peace and happiness in your future!

AVONDALE,

I can so understand how difficult it would be to leave your home. I have a tough time letting go of memories too. I can be pretty sentimental over stuff that my husband would just regard as junk.

I'll pray for you that you can make the best decision possible. It sounds so 50/50 , you probably can't go wrong. God will give you wisdom as you look to him for guidance.

PETVET,

I'm glad you're doing well with Buddy. It sounds as if you have a nice stable relationship. Something I can't relate too. lol. But that would be very nice after all the drama. Take care.

WGTT, MOMMA8 and anyone else I missed, Hi and hope you are all doing well.

ME,

Things have been going all right. Just very busy. Between church activities, teaching, soccer games, playing for a wedding, end of the year school activities and life in general there hasn't been a dull moment. I've also been to a few counselling appt. Two with my husband and one alone. The MC said he felt he needed to see us separately.

I'm very anxious for school to finish and for summer to begin. There are many projects that I'm looking forward to doing. And of course, some fun with my girls. Take care everyone. God bless!
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 05/26/04 09:13 PM
Leah2be

Three children, oldest daughter will soon be a teenager <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , so she tells me everyday. Our son just turned 11 and the youngest girl is 7.

They too are my life...I just wish and pray I had more time with them but we do make the best of every day that we can.

Those feelings of rejection <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> . Did you ever find the switch? This too shall pass as time does heal some wounds.

My prayers are with you and your family.

God Bless
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 05/28/04 02:46 AM
TRUSTING HIM,

My heart goes out to you and all others that experience the pain of rejection from a spouse. I don't think anything in life could hurt quite as much. It is so comforting to know that God is the great comforter and healer. He has made all the difference in my life. I read a great deal from Psalms and Isaiah during the first couple of years. There were so many words from the Psalms that brought a lot of comfort.

Another huge thing that helped with my recovery was a continual prayer life to my Ultimate Friend. I asked God to be the partner I no longer had. I begged Him to fill the huge hole in my heart. And with time, God has answered that prayer. As I've written before, it did not happen over night. It was a process.

There are still some lonely times but that is when I have to look beyond myself to God and others. Sometimes that is harder to do than other times. Keep seeking God as you are now doing. He will honor that.

I visited your website. It's beautiful. I'll have to register so I can post there too. You have some great information there. Thank you for that.

I'll keep you and your family in my prayers too. I'll pray that God will protect the hearts of your children also. How often do you get to see them? Whenever I think of not having my girls with me each night, I'm motivated to keep on keeping on. The times I question it are when things seem so not good here. I wonder at that juncture if they would be better off without the things they see (disrespect) playing out in front of them. That is something I continue to pray about.

I guess no matter which situation you're in, there are positives and negatives. Either way, one needs much patience and wisdom from God.

Take care Trusting Him. I hope you have a great weekend!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/28/04 11:44 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: Basically, you should tell your attorney that you want to stay in the house. Your H is entitled to part of the equity in the house. Based on the appraisal at the time of divorce, you come up with a percentage 50% or less of equity to give to hubby. At the time of settlement, hubby signs over a Quit-Claim Deed giving you sole ownership of the house. After the settlement, if you do not want to stay in the house, just fixed up the eyesores on the house and put it on the market with you pocketing the spread from the retail mark up. Get my drift! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wallace: Trout fishing in the mountains. Good plan.

To those who are presently going through dramas with their spouses, stress can affect your health and mental state. Be cafeful! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Have a good holiday all!

I'm gone.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 05/28/04 11:51 AM
Hi everyone, Happy Friday. Hope you all have wonderful weekends <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Leah - You are always so encouraging. What a wonderful gift you have. I hope that you are also encouraged by us, and other Sources of encouragement, including your friends/family. I truly admire you for “sticking with it”. When your girls are older, they will realize the sacrifice you made during these years. In the meantime, we’ll keep praying your H will have his spirit broken and replaced by One that is life-giving.

Wallace - Did your dad talk any about wanting a D from your mom?

Petvet - You talk to your Buddy 3-4 times a day?!?!? Making any plans you need to let us know about?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> You know I can drive down to your wedding... Also, you said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After the divorce is final (if it goes that way) sell the house outright to get the remaining profit for yourself if you do not want to keep the house. Just food for thought.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Doesn’t this mean that I’d have to pay for closing costs twice? (Once for buying hubby out, and once when and if I DO decide to sell?)

EC - So when are we going to hear about you having a “buddy” or G/F ?? Are you even THINKING about that? Do you have any plans for the Memorial Day weekend?

Trusting - I was reading this morning some journal notes on your website. Do you attend the same church your ex-wife does? If so, how do you handle that? Is it a large congregation? What does your church leadership/pastor(s) have to say (if anything) about the demise of your marriage? How did you handle that?

WGTT - Where are you? Probably off sailing somewhere...

Mommax8 - I hope things are going OK. Have you been able to find a job?

Me - Hubby still hasn’t responded to my reminder that HE said HE wanted to “set a day to meet to work out things for divorce”. I spoke to my CPA yesterday and he reminded me that hubby has always been slow to move (when we were together our taxes would be filed in October, not April). I am considering some phrases to say next week if he still hasn’t done anything to set up a meeting, and will keep you posted. Meanwhile, his most recent CD is being publicized (local entertainment column, web links, etc.) I have no emotion about this, just a little sadness. Where as before, I would be "thanked" in the liner notes, his liners now mention the OW as a musical influence.

<small>[ May 28, 2004, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/28/04 06:15 PM
Hi All,

Got a few moments here at work... so I thought I would drop in and hope everyone has a great Memorial Day weekend.

Trusting Him...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by Trusting Him:

Wallace: Thanks...It has been a while. I found that I had to quit reading everything here. It kept opening up old wounds. But after Avondale's email and coming back to this forum I found it not near as painful. Who knows, maybe I'm healing! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sometimes the boards here will open up old wounds. I know there are times when I read someone's thread... It sometimes brings back some bad memories of what was in my "M". To this day it can still cause a trigger to go off every now and then.

Glad to see you back... and yes I agree... you must be healing. With the Lord in your life... you can't go wrong!


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By Trusting Him:

IRS...Ouch! I ended up with all the back taxes from our marriage and even filed our returns this year. Former was actually quite nice about it and allowed me to claim the Head of Household and 2 kids this year. They will be hers nest year.

Go to court and get it straightened out. Otherwise those wonderful people at the IRS will keep after you.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As we speak I have my attorneys working on my IRS case. I have paid enough because of all the lies and actions that she created. That part of my life (paying for her mistakes) is over.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by Trusting him:

This was the first time the former had gone out of town without letting me or the children know where she was. Of course they asked me nost of the weekend where she was. I honestly have no idea children. With them not having heard from her since Friday the son broke down and called her late Sunday night. So now they know where she is and they start asking me who she is with. Again....Children, I do not know.

Monday morning they found out she had gone off with her new BF and son for the weekend. Now they are mad.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's unfortunate... but IMHO... I think the children suffer more than any of us. It's to bad that your WW does not have the foresight to at least keep her children in mind, when she is off doing these type of things. Protect yourself and your children as best you can while all this is going on.

Glad to hear she is IC, hopefully you will some positive results somewhere down the road.


avondale...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by avondale:

At this point I'm not sure. I'm actually having to make " reasons to sell/reasons to stay " point lists and see which one is longer. Lots of reasons to stay and lots of reasons to move. The columns are the same length! Arrrgh </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do what is in your heart... and what you feel is in the best interest of what you want at this point in time. Pray on it, and let the Lord lead you in the direction that he wants. Once you have established what direction you are going to go in... we will give you some ideas as what are opinions are.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by avondale:

Hubby still hasn’t responded to my reminder that HE said HE wanted to “set a day to meet to work out things for divorce”. I spoke to my CPA yesterday and he reminded me that hubby has always been slow to move (when we were together our taxes would be filed in October, not April). I am considering some phrases to say next week if he still hasn’t done anything to set up a meeting, and will keep you posted. Meanwhile, his most recent CD is being publicized (local entertainment column, web links, etc.) I have no emotion about this, just a little sadness. Where as before, I would be "thanked" in the liner notes, his liners now mention the OW as a musical influence. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even though your "H" is moving pretty slow, I would only drop some subtle reminders about what direction he wants to move forward in. You have been going at this for a long time... I wouldn't try to push things, unless your ready to wrap up this whole thing and move on with your life and start fresh. But if you think there is any type of a possibilty for reconciliation... I would walk very softly.

Sorry to hear that he is putting the other woman in the liner notes. It must be very hurtful to you and my prayers go out to you avondale.


Leah...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by Leah:

hings have been going all right. Just very busy. Between church activities, teaching, soccer games, playing for a wedding, end of the year school activities and life in general there hasn't been a dull moment. I've also been to a few counselling appt. Two with my husband and one alone. The MC said he felt he needed to see us separately.

I'm very anxious for school to finish and for summer to begin. There are many projects that I'm looking forward to doing. And of course, some fun with my girls. Take care everyone. God bless!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your keeping yourself busy with lots of activities... that's good... real good to hear. Sometimes you need to keep this up just to maintain your sanity.


Petvet...

Thanks for the advice on watching your health. It is true... stress kills!

Welleveryone have a safe and enjoyable Memorial Day weekend.

Momax and WGTT... hope you are all doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ May 28, 2004, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 05/28/04 11:36 PM
Hi Gang..........


Wallace - Trout fishing? What fun. I never caught a trout but have seen others.. I'm sure Colorado has lots of good fishing spots and wild game. I was telling somebody the other day that I sure don't miss the alligators in Florida, every time you go fishing there, you always have to be on guard, they can jump straight out of the water and pull you in.....

Trusting Him - That's a neat site, lot's of good stuff. That's a pretty good journal. I remember starting one, then I lost track of keeping up on it. But hang in there it does get better with time.

Avondale - Well to answer your question. I haven't dated anyone or searched any prospects yet. I kinda want to stay free at this time. I think I got so flamed through this whole mess, I can't see having any g/f like our lover boys here yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . I guess one year in the future it might happen. As of now, I feel like a door shut behind me and now I'm getting ready to walk through a happier one....I miss the female conversations at times, but don't miss the emotional weight that can come with it, so I avoid going that path for now....I'm happy for the guys here, a female partner can bring you great joy. I've been on my own now for just about 3 1/2 years, legally DV'd for 2 years, single, yet I still feel somewhat married, but to an old image? I guess when I start taking women out for ice cream or something simple oneday, that might change <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />


Leah - That's good you are giving your M all you got. I think I rather go through the process of rebuilding than tearing down, if I were in the same house. Some guys just don't know how lucky they are to have there wives want them and love despite what they do..

Petvet - So, you bought the book? That's great. I haven't read it all yet. I think I'll read a little this weekend.....

Hello to all the other partners, hope you have a great holiday weekend....
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 05/29/04 12:52 AM
Hey EC,

Good to hear from you, and I'm relieved that you crossed over IMHO a major hurdle during your YD's graduation.

After I read your post... I did a little reflecting (your posts are always so timely).

I think you have the right idea... about not jumping into a relationship until you have pretty much healed your wounds.

You have gone through the flames, like so many of us. Now it's time to heal, and remove all the baggage... and your doing just that.

Until we have all have done that... you cannot truly bring peace and happiness to another for any legnth of time.

The scars, the pain, the hurt, of what we all went through will only interfere with any type of a relationship we may try to develop.

I myself am still struggling with this... hence, I'm not about to get married to anyone until I know that I'm fully healed.

Sometimes I wonder if I will ever overcome all the pain that has been dealt out. I've told my G/F that in fact I'm a work in process, and I'm not sure how anything is going to turn out.

I know that I will eventually "M" my G/F, because she is a wonderful and caring person. She is a keeper, make no mistake about it. It's not her I'm worried about... it's me!

I was burned so badly during my "M", that I'm pretty well gun shy about going the distance in another "M".

I guess it's a case of once bitten, twice shy.

I hope you have a good Memorial Da weekend this week.

I'm just going to hang out at my house... do yard work... pay bills, and maybe get together with my G/F and her mother (her mother is spending the weekend at her house) and all of our kids on Monday for dinner. But we will see what happens.

Well my G/F is calling me on the phone... so I have to go.

Have a great Memorial Day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 05/29/04 04:09 AM
Leah2be

"a continual prayer life to my Ultimate Friend" I was doing just that the other night, I have never laughed while I was praying but for whatever reason as I sat there listening I just busted out laughing. It has been a while since I laughed that long or that hard. Actually felt pretty good afterwards. I guess the old saying "laughter heals" applies to God too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The times I question it are when things seem so not good here. I wonder at that juncture if they would be better off without the things they see (disrespect) playing out in front of them. That is something I continue to pray about.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can only speak from my childhood. My parents fought constantly. My father had gotten quite good at ramming his fist through walls in the house. I have four sisters and I vividly remember conversations about who we would go with should they ever divorce. But...they never did. Today I am thankful for that. As bad as it was at times I do not think that a divorce would have made things any better for us children. The one thing we always knew was that Mom and Dad would both be there. And my Mom was instrumental in ensuring that respect was taught...even in the midst of all their fighting.

Hang in there and know that my pryaers are with you.

Avondale

Yes, we now attend the same Church. I left for several mmonths but after some intensive prayer with 3 other men and the proddings of our children I finally went back.

How do I handle it? I go to Church and worship. Our youngest daughter told me "Daddy, the weekend that I'm with you I'll sit with Mom and the weekends I'm with Mom I'll sit with you. That way neither of you have to sit by yourself. She's such a doll and sweetheart.

Probably a small congeration, 400 attending Worship Services. My formers first boyfriend also still attends there but always manages to keep his distance.

Church Laders - probably one of the reasons I really went back. When I first approached the Pastor about this friendship his only response was "Ssshhhh! This needs to be kept quite." As of yet I still feel that he has not handeled the situation as the Church should have but he does have his good qualities. Who knows, this may have been his first time having to deal with something like this that included members of his congeration. We are all still learning from this.

The demise of our marraige. I feel he still thinks that everything was all my fault. My former had a very large image and presence in the Church. One that protrayed a very Godly woman. He much like her Father (also an ordained Minister) have no idea of the real impact an affair has on one's mind nor the things they are willling to do to either cover it up or save face. But in the end it all comes out in the wash.

My former. I just <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , wish her a good day and continue on my way. (and sometimes go home and cry, but have not done that in quite a while) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wallace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With the Lord in your life... you can't go wrong!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen!

EC

I'll join you in that no G/F club. Still early for me but it is not a place I want to go anytime soon.

But you might want to try that ice cream thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Sounds pretty intresting.

Me

Doing well...A group of us, 3 men and 5 women started a study on "The Purpose Driven Life" tonight. The first meeting went well and we all went out to dinner afterwards. That in itself was good. Most of us are graduates of a DivorceCare class and we did this to continue the fellowship from that class.

Met with my IC again today. He thinks I am doing well but is concerned about our youngest daughter and her actions. He recommended that I call my former and arrange either a 30 minute talk or lunch to "discuss" my concerns about her. This of course got a chuckle form me.

But he them reminded me that even though my former never acknowledges to me anything that I say she does listen. (Does that mean she still has or is beginning to have a little respect for me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) He then went on to state several things that she was now doing because of other concerns I had about the children that I had mentioned to her. Always in a firm but pleasent attitude.

God Bless you all and have a wonderful weekend!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/29/04 12:15 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: Unless you have the equity amount in the bank, i guess you would have to get a home equity or refinance loan which would mean that you would probably have to pay closing cost. If you decide to stay in the house for another two or more years, it won't be too bad having to pay closing costs again depending on how much profit you end up making. I am not getting married any time soon. I am taking my time and doing alot of thinking with my brain.

Darn! I need to reread some of the previous posts on this page.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 05/29/04 12:27 PM
I'm back!

Wallace: I'm like you. I am going to do the single thing for quite a while before I get married again if ever again. I am being very careful about this marriage thing. I am monitoring my buddy's every emotion and decisions. I am not overlooking anything. I am very careful. I am still healing too.

EC: Ice cream! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Come on, guy! You can take a woman to have ice cream without marrying her the next day. Just take your time. Wallace and I are taking thing slow. We are being methodical in our actions.

Trusting Him: I have always had hesitation about group sessions. I end up feeling worst because of all the issues other folks are going through.

Later.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 05/29/04 02:30 PM
Petvet

I concur about the group sessions. The two people leading the study andother lady and I are the facilators for the DivorceCare Class so even in this study we only encourage others to search themselves. But a standing rule for each of classes is "No Dating". So we feel that if they are willing to commit to no dating that in itself shows some dedicaton to the purpose of study and healing.

Unless my tastes change I have no fears from the men who attend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . Of the women there, all are standing on stable ground with the exception of one and I've already learned to keep my distance from her.

Me -- I am more like Joseph now. At the first sight of a member of the opposite sex showing intrest in anything beyond a mixed enviroment I run! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 05/31/04 10:17 PM
Hi Everybody!! Hope you're all enjoying a nice long weekend.

AVONDALE,

Thanks for your kind, encouraging words. You asked if was encouraged by you all. Yes, very much. It is always good to come here. Sometimes I need a safe place to vent, sometimes someone will write exactly what I need to hear. I'm very thankful for this web site and especially for all the wonderful folks who post on this thread.

I'm continuing to pray for you, your husband, and the situation with your house and all of your other concerns. I'm sure with time and prayer you will make a good choice. You seem like a very wise, intelligent lady. I'm anxious to hear how your meeting with your husband goes.

You remarked that the girls would one day appreciate the sacrifices I've made to keep us together as a family. I keep hoping this is true and that my decision is one they will respect and not be hurt by in any way.

I've had family and close friends express their concerns regarding what the girls see modeled here. Will they come to view love and marriage this way? Will they also treat me with disregard and disrespect the way their father treats me? These are my HUGE concerns. I want so for them to marry Godly, loving men who will treat them right. Is there a tendency for them to be drawn to men who treat them the way their father treats their mother? Any thoughts about this Avondale or others?

I'm sorry about your husband's cd's acknowledgements. That has to hurt. Just know that your "acknowledgements" in eternity are so much greater than anything that might be posted down here. God knows the truth of who has truly faithfully supported, loved and prayed for your husband. Your reward is yet to come. Maybe here on earth but most certainly in heaven one day! God bless you Avondale.

TRUSTING HIM,

Thanks for your encouragement too!! If you could would you please read what I wrote to Avondale. I'm interested in your opinion about the girls in regard to what I wrote. I want to believe they are better off, but I'm not confident of that.

Weekends like this past one reinforce that doubt. Their father was quite angry and cold to me all weekend. They heard the arguing and saw the disrespect once again. I try so hard to please him but it seems he is mad at me all the time. I feel so useless and worn out by the time he is finished with me.

There has also been some strange behaviors that are very reminiscent of when he was seeing someone else. This is extremely difficult to ignore. I know God is Sovereign and knows all. I'm trying to trust Him with all of this. I pray each day that truth will prevail. I don't want to live a lie. If he is with someone else, I'm very ready to let him go.

I'm glad you have a good support system. I, too, am involved in a ladies Bible study of The Purpose Driven Life. It's a great book! I admire the fact that you can continue attending the same church as your former wife. I would think that would be very challenging. You must be very strong to do that.

My prayers continue to be with you and your family!


WALLACE,

You wrote that it was good I was staying busy. Yes, sometimes it helps to fill life with good things. Sometimes it can be a bit too busy. It's true, though, that if I have too much think time, my mind can go down the wrong path with too much over analynation and introspection. So I guess a healthy balance is what's needed.


Glad to hear you are doing okay. It seems things are going well for you and your girlfriend. That's great!! It must be wonderful to have someone to share your life with. I'm glad that you too are being careful with timing and being sure to heal before entering another relationship. That's very wise. God continue to bless and guide you.

EC,

You seem to being doing well. It must help to be past the hurdle of your daughter's graduation. Have you had much contact with them since?

It's good you're being careful about entering another relationship. But ice-cream out does sound fun. Just remember not every lady out there is as your ex-wife. It helps me to read here from you and other "good guys" like you. It reinforces the idea that there are many men who have wonderful character and high values. After you've been through the ringer with someone, it helps to be reminded that there are others out there who are very different from the one who hurt or is hurting you. Anyhow, I hope you one day find a lady who is fully deserving and appreciative of your attention.

PETVET,

Keep having fun with Buddy. Take care of yourself.

ME

Like I mentioned above, its been a tough weekend. I feel like I have to pull it together and regroup after being shot down so much by hubby. He gives me a lot to have to get over at times. I'm trying to pull myself out of the pit and move onward. Trust you're all doing well. Hope you have a great week!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/01/04 02:58 AM
((Leah ))
Sorry you’ve had a bad weekend. I read your posts to everyone. You said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There has also been some strange behaviors that are very reminiscent of when he was seeing someone else. This is extremely difficult to ignore. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you be more specific? (If you’d rather not, we’d understand....I just want you to know you can vent here too. We all try NOT to judge but want to support you.) I pray you’re wrong.

Trusting Him - I honestly don’t see how you could attend the same church as your ex-wife. Did your pastor never talk to her about her behavior? How did he explain (in his mind) her forsaking her marriage vows before God? (not to mention other issues...) In fact, if my hubby ever wanted to come back and attend my church, he would not be able to until the pastor/elders were totally convinced he had repented. Even at that, they’d recognize how difficult it would be for me, the “remaining” or betrayed spouse, to continue to worship in the church (if he was there), and would probably recommend he join another congregation. Then one gets into the “remain with your wife of your youth” scripture... So hats off to you, for continuing. I hope it’s not at the price of your emotional well-being. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Obviously your kids get the benefit of a continuous spiritual safety-net and don’t get bounced between two churches. But yours is not such a big congregation, so I would think it might be extra difficult.

My Pastor has also learned from my situation. I think before, his belief was of the “no marriage after divorce” but has now changed to allow for that in certain circumstances, like mine. We are all works in progress, even ministers.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/01/04 11:10 PM
Avondale,

You asked what strange behaviors? Well, the extreme mood swings are back. While together this past weekend, he was constantly on my case about one thing or another. Very angry, belittling, demanding apologies when I sincerely didn't know what I had done wrong, and continue berating. Add to that, he kept finding reasons to leave us. He would say he needed to use the restroom but then he would return from an opposite direction. Weird stuff like that. Oh, I also received an anonymous phone call, caller ID blocked. The person hung up. So that probably has contributed to my unease about the situation. The counselor has also questioned his faithfulness. So, again time will tell. I keep praying for truth.
O
Did you read my questions about the effect of his treatment of me on my girls? Could you please give me your opinion on that? I could really use some help with this.

Thanks so much for your concern and interest. I appreciate you all so much!!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/01/04 11:40 PM
Hi all!

Trusting: Healing takes alot of time, but I will say that whether one can interact with the opposite is a personal thing. Feeling that there are good people out there can really help the healing process as long as one does not look for someone to complete them but to add more icing to the cake.

Leah: I agree with Avondale; I would not be able to attend the same church as my ex. I don't se how you could do it.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/02/04 02:12 AM
Leah ,
You said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Will they (my girls) come to view love and marriage this way? Will they also treat me with disregard and disrespect the way their father treats me? These are my HUGE concerns. I want so for them to marry Godly, loving men who will treat them right. Is there a tendency for them to be drawn to men who treat them the way their father treats their mother? Any thoughts? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I didn’t initially respond because I don’t personally have any experience with this. Other than having an affair and carrying on with OW, my husband was always the most perfect, wonderful, respectful person. In fact, I visited Focus on the Family’s website to see if they had any insights I could pass on to you (couldn’t find any in my limited time, but that might be a resource for you.) My thoughts...well, psychologists and sociologists say that kids DO model after what they see. But then there are kids who have overcome big hardships at home (welfare, etc.) to achieve great things. I guess the bottom line is, God will watch over them no matter what happens. I know that sounds flippant but it isn’t meant to be. As you know, God made each of us unique and each of your kids is different. I realize this (your H’s behavior) is your most serious concern right now. Why don’t you put that question out for everyone on the D/D board to see, and maybe you’d get some responses from other women who’ve walked through that? I know of several who were in physically and/or emotionally abusive relationships and left their husbands. Find out the effects on their kids.

Are you thinking of doing some detective work on your own to confirm if your H is involved with someone? Would having “proof” and knowing that he is having an affair help you make the difficult decision of leaving him any easier? If so, do you have a plan to go about doing that? What are the laws in your state?
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/02/04 04:58 PM
Sorry double post... I'm out of control!

<small>[ June 07, 2004, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/03/04 05:22 AM
Hi All,

Well I hope everyone had a good Memorial Day! I would have rather skipped my weekend... I had a tough one like Leah did but I will get back to that later.

Trusting Him...

It takes some real courage to attend the same Church as your WW. On the other hand... it does show how far you have come and healed to be able to do it. You also have the right idea as far as the dating scenario... no need to rush into anything until your ready.

LEAH...

Sorry to hear that your "H" is showing the same traits as before when he was out having an "A". Not a good sign IMHO! If you think they are probably up to something... go with your instincts, because they probably are.

As far as the type of example your "H" is displaying to your children and how it may affect them in the future. All children will react differently... for some... they will display anger and hostility. Some will go into a shell and hold their emotions in, and the list goes on. IMO, it is an experience in life that they are witnessing. Each one will take away from it something different to a certain degree. They can learn from it, and be shown that this is not acceptable behavior... and adjust accordingly with the proper guidance by you and possibly an IC.

If in fact it becomes abusive and/or violent... I would definitely remove your children from that type of a situation immediately.

My kids went through quite a bit, and they all turned out pretty well for the most part. They may never get "M" because of their current views om "M", so there are some negatives that most likely will come out of it after it's all said and done with.

Petvet, EC, avondale, WGTT, Momax...

How did your Holiday weekend turn out, and if I missed anyone... feel free to let us know.

Me...

Well my Memeorial day was upsetting to say the least.

My G/F called me up at about 11:00 p.m. Sunday night, and said she decided she didn't feel like cooking for everyone on Memorial day, that she wasn't up to it. I told her it wasn't a problem... that I had plenty of food for everyone, and that I could do the cooking over at my house.

Well... she didn't say anything... complete silence. So I asked her if she wanted to do that instead. She stated that she would call me and let me know tomorrow.

Well the next day came... and it was about 4:00pm, and getting late, as I had a house full of hungry people... so I called her. She stated that she wasn't coming... because her mother wanted to eat dinner at my G/F's house. At that point I stated, "a phone call would of been nice to let me know what your plans were"... and then she took off into how I am afraid of a "M" commitment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Well after listening to her go on about the same exact thing that I have gone over with her many times before... I told her that I was all done with this relationship, that it wasn't working... and I had decided if we were going to argue over this "M" thing over and over and over again... I didn't want to see what it would be like if we were actually "M"

Well that set the fireworks off! I told her I was all done with this conversation and if she wanted to call me when she could discuss things other than how unhappy she was that I wouldn't marry her right now, to call me.

Needless to say... red flags probably went up on both sides after this conversation was finished with. We are talking now... but this relationship is pretty battered and bruised at this point.

She is a good person... but she goes into these moods everytime she starts thinking that I'm not going to marry her at the drop of hat.

The more she does this... the farther she pushes me away. I'm really questioning this relationship at this point.

Well I'm rambling as usual... so I hope everyone has a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 06/02/04 10:30 PM
Leah2be

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I've had family and close friends express their concerns regarding what the girls see modeled here. Will they come to view love and marriage this way? Will they also treat me with disregard and disrespect the way their father treats me? These are my HUGE concerns. I want so for them to marry Godly, loving men who will treat them right. Is there a tendency for them to be drawn to men who treat them the way their father treats their mother? Any thoughts about this Avondale or others?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ouch! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You ask a lot. We as parents recognize that a positive emotional climate is necessary for a home. We know that negative messages can convey an astomphere of guilt and shame that will leave scars on our children's lives.

Every wise woman buildeth her house: but the foolish plucketh it down with her hands. (Pro 14:1)

I am quite sure that you are a wise woman who is building her house so we have no fear of the second half.

A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger. The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness. The eyes of the LORD are in every place, beholding the evil and the good. A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit. (Pro 15:1-4)

With the above verses, even in the midst of turmoil and confusion I believe that you do and will continue to have a positive impact on your girls. Practice them each and every day.

From where I sit, on the opposite side of a divorce I believe that the divorce has caused much more pain and confusion than any of our previous problems. The only arguement our YD remembers is the one that sent me out the door. Prior to that, even in the middle of our troubles they appeared to be doing well.

Were there problems? Of course! Some that I was not even aware of until after the divorce. Things that I am pretty sure that the children may have seen but just never reacted to it. Mom washing everyone's clothes but mine, preparing supper but not setting a place for Daddy, always talking to Daddy through the children vs asking questions herself. Yes, all of these were symptoms of our (mostly mine) problems. I struggled miserably with finances, I failed to recoggize and love her in a way that was appropriate or in a way that she needed. I ignored her or withdrew into my shell during some important times in her life and basically was just not there for her.

But. . . the children were emotionaly stable, being raised in a decent manner and respect was taught. Even today, I still teach our children that love and respect is important and that each of them needs to love and respect each of us. It is sometimes a one way street as my former has not reached that point yet as I am still the source of all of her problems.

But through the wise use of words, you can make an impact on your girls. You can offset the negative effects of your husband's actions, and it can be done without tearing him down in the process. I truly believe that if the children see parents attempting to work on things (problems) that they will most always feel safe and secure.

Of course, if it ever evolves into a physical abuse situation I would suggest having him leave the house. As for arguements and the other what nots that typically go on in a marriage, only you can judge that behaviour and act accordingly.

You are in my prayers and God Bless
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/03/04 02:46 AM
Hello Everyone,

WALLACE,

Sorry to hear you had such a difficult weekend with your girlfriend. I know how draining those "discussions" can be. You seem to have a good head on your shoulders. I'm sure you are being cautious when it comes to decisions with your relationship. Just curious, are there any other major areas of disagreement other than the timing of your future marriage? You mentioned red flags. Do you feel there are others? I will continue to keep you in my prayers. Keep looking to the Lord to lead and guide You. He will show you the right thing to do.

I'm glad to hear your children are all doing well. That is wonderful. I do hope and pray the girls will do the same. You mentioned hanging in there unless there is abuse. Do you mean specifically physical abuse? Thanks for your prayers and concern.

TRUSTING HIM,

I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my questions and concerns regarding the girls. The verses you wrote were very encouraging. Your posts always give me a shot of motivation to keep trying. My girls are doing great right now. (Straight A's in school, lots of praise and recognition from their teachers in regard to their character and such) For this I'm so very thankful. I attribute this to the many prayers offered up for this family. Without the Lord, I'm sure it would be a mess.

I hope that if I can remain strong in the Lord, He will protect them and their perceptions of the negative aspects of this relationship. When I consider how stable they seem to be now and compare that to the potential havoc that a divorce would create, I pray all the harder for the endurance I need to keep on keeping on.

How wonderful for you and your children if your wife's eyes could be opened to truth and she should return to the marriage. I will pray that this miracle could happen for you!! As I've shared with others on this thread, I know of incidents where God has indeed done miracles on behalf of those who patiently continued to stand for their marriages. I pray God would bless you in this way.

ME,

Still trying to learn and make progress in our situation. Just started reading a book called the Verbally Abusive Relationship. What an eye opener! It's as if the author has been a unseen visitor in our home. Everything she writes about could be an exact quote of the words and logic my husband uses. She gives some very helpful suggestions. I'm hoping that I can gain some insights that bring about some positive changes is this relationship.

Hope all the rest of the gang is doing well. Take care!
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/03/04 03:07 AM
AVONDALE,

I'm so sorry I somehow overlooked your post to me when I was reading through the thread. Oops, it might have something to do with the fact that I've been up since three A.M. I'm afraid I've been getting very little sleep here lately. My husband insisted on having this very emotional discussion in the middle of the night. We talked a couple of hours then got up and started our day. So please forgive me if I don't seem all together.

Thank you for your sugestions. I'll have to try writing something up later when I can think better. Thanks also for looking at Focus for me. There are as many ideas out there for handling emotional abuse as there are for dealing with affairs, even amongst Christians. There can be so many opinions, so I want to be sure to be looking to the Lord and asking for his guidance.

You asked about PI's. I've considered it in the past and even spoke to one. But it is very costly and I'm not sure they could ever really find anything. You see, most all of my husbands past affairs have been long distance. So most of his communication has been thru e-mails and phone calls and occasional romantic get- aways. He seldom lets me know of his plans until the last minute and then he's very vague. "I'm headed for California tomorrow. I can't remember the name of the city..." You get the picture. So short of having someone follow him 24/7 it would be hard to figure out anything. He is so very random in everything he does. There is no schedule or accountability.

Also, I've come to a place where I've really just given him over to God as far as what he's up to. I pray for truth and God has given truth to me on several occasions from some surprising sources. I'm trusting Him to do that again if there is anything going on. Playing PI can be exhausting and can drive you nuts. I have to let it go.

You ask if I found out he was having another affair would that make my decision easier. At this point I feel that would be the nail on the coffin. I can not tolerate any more unfaithfulness on his part. The only chance at reconcilliation would be a total, life changing miracle straight from God alone. Apart from God's help, I do not think he is capable of being faithful.

I;m going to read back over this tomorrow to see if I answered all of your questions. I'm afraid I might not be making much sense. I'm so tired all of a sudden. Good night Avondale. I hope your doing well. I'll check in later. Thanks again.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/05/04 12:13 PM
Hi all!

Leah: My exw use to do the same thing as far as last minute plans to accommodate the affair. There's software that can track email transmissions. Talk to a PI and they can give you some recommendations. To answer your question about the influence on your kids, I feel that parents need to be as positive as possible because kids do notice things.

Wallace: WHATTTTTT! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> What in the world is your GF up to? Has she lost her mind? I hope flashing lights are going off (STAY AWAY! STAY AWAY! STAY AWAY! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!). What she did was very rude. She is skimming on you to get you to the altar. Start looking elsewhere when you are ready. You are test driving cars now; keep test driving until you find the right car. Would you buy a car that has many obvious flaws?

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/06/04 05:11 AM
Leah
I can see how your H's behavior is wearing you down and causing concern that he might be involved elsewhere again.
Petvet mentioned the computer software that tracks keystrokes. Sometimes it's called "key loggers" and I know I've seen them discussed several times over the last year here at MB. If this is something you're interested in, Here is a link:
Computer watchdog
There are many out there. Does your H use a different computer for work? If so, this might not be of much help.

Hang in there!

Wallace - I have to agree with Petvet for you, too. How many warnings bells do you need? I know a guy like you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT be desperate enough for companionship to put up with childish behavior like that. You deserve much better!

Me -I meet with my lawyer Tuesday afternoon to find out "stuff". In all our previous meetings I never asked questions about what would happen if I file. My questions were more "defense" as opposed to "offense". It will be interesting to see what she has to say. I'm not in a rush, regardless.

By the way...What are some names for the OW (that I can use)? I know you all have names I won't say...but in talking to my H, what should I call her? I don't want to use her name, and slut just isn't a word I'd use in a civilized conversation (or any other, for that matter). Any ideas??

Hope everyone else is having a great weekend!

<small>[ June 05, 2004, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/06/04 01:49 AM
HI ALL,

In regard to the latest posts to me... My husband uses the computers at his work. He owns his own business and pretty much lives there. That is why he is able to have such a lack of accountability. He has all bills such as visa and the cell phone sent to his work. So unless I request to specifically take a look at everything, I won't be able to find out anything.

In the past I discovered he is quite talented at hiding things. He would show me one cell phone bill then later I discovered he bought a second phone. Obviously if he wishes to hide things, he will find a way.

I just received a phone call from him. He was suppose to come home tonight but just informed me he wouldn't be coming home until tomorrow night.

So the wait continues. I feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop any minute. D-day#???
I'll let you all know if anything happens.

AVONDALE,
I'll continue to keep you in my prayers in regard to meeting with the lawyer. It's good to be informed of your different options. I'm glad your meeting with him even if you don't intend to do anything any time soon.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend!
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/06/04 01:55 AM
AVONDALE,

I just re-read your post and realized I forgot to answer your question regarding names. Let's see, I guess I always used his girlfriend's name. But I can understand you not wanting to do that. Maybe, your "new friend". ?? I'm not really sure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> If I come up with anything more interesting I'll let you know.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 06/07/04 09:06 PM
Wallace

Sorry to see </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sorry... I'm out of control!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My heart and prayers go out to you. The others here have given you good advice so "be quick to listen ans slow to speak, and when you do speak, speak softly."

But you can always ramble on as it prepares me for my future.....

Leah2be

Just me...speaking from a somewhat biased view I assume. I've read some on a "verbal abusive" relationship and while a lot of it was good, from a male prespective it sometimes came across as "looking for a reason" to find something wrong with the other partner.

Something that was helpful to me that I found and wrote down well over 2 years ago and have attempted to keep it on the top of my mind.

Negative Thinking Destructive to Relationships
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Confirmation Bias. The major problem with negative thinking is that what humans believe about another, they tend to see and hear even if it isn't true. In other words, what you believe about another person (positive or negative), you will find evidence of that belief in everything he or she says or does</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Self-fulfilling Prophecy. After someone begins to look for or notice behaviors that support their beliefs, this often influences how they act toward their mate. In other words, we have a tendency to treat others in accordance to how we think or believe about them. As a result, our mate's usually behave in a way consistent with our original expectation</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Learned Hopelessness. When negative thinking consistently invades the relationship, it produces an environment of hopelessness and demoralization. The negatively framed mate is robed of motivation and action.</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
So...I've spent a lot of time trying to apply the following to my life:

"Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things." (Philippians 4:8)



Avondale

I've gotten to the point where I just call them by their names. Being that one is a member of our Church and the other was a casual friend...what else can I do?

I have discovered that as long as I refered to them as anything other than their name that I was holding on to anger and bitterness toward them and that was not good for me.

Everyone Else

Pray that all has been going well in your lifes and that the past Holiday Weekend was a good time for everyone. Hopefully a time to rest and relax as we all learn to move forward in our lives.

Me

*chuckles*
Could someone please explain my role as a non-custodial parent (Daddy) and not that of Husband and Daddy. I sure manage to keep myself confused at times! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Sunday week ago I arrived at former's house to pick up the children. Our oldest daughter is on the couch with tears streaming and an ankle the size of a softball. Her Mom? Getting ready to go to church.

I load the children up and off to the emergency room we go for the next 4 hours. So her ankle is broken, cast for the next 6 to 6 weeks and a follow up apointment with an orthopedic to ensure that nothing major is wrong or therapy required.

At 9:00 PM Mom calls from her BF's house to see how OD is doing. I basically repeat the above. Needless to say she is now on her way to my house.

She arrives and I was preparing to leave to get OD's pain medication so she agrees to stay with them until I return. (I later learn from DS that while I was away Mom made her way through all the bedrooms and the rest of the house) After returning she hangs around for another hour or so (another first) before leaving.

But....the next morning she is back at the house bearing bags of groceries and what not's for the children. (This is also a first) Also hangs around for a while before going back to work.

Wednesday is the follow up appointment and we had already discussed the arrangements and I was supposed to take OD to her appointment. I was suprised when she called and asked if I could pick OD up from her house and she would meet us at the doctor's office. Where we actually spent 2 hours in the same room. But it also made me aware that we would only be classified as an acquaintance - Knowledge of a person acquired by a relationship less intimate than friendship Ouch! That after 17 years of marraige.

But I guess it is rather hard to discuss other things in the presence of 2 teenagers and the knowledge that she is actively involved with another man. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

For the sake of Leah2be and what I posted to her. I thanked God that I was there when OD needed to go to the hospital. I thanked God that I had 3 wonderful days to care for her hand and foot, treating her like the princess she is. I thanked God her mother and I were able to be in the same room when our OD needed us to be.

But....in that typical male (at least me) analytical way I was asking myself questions like:

</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did she show up that night only after guilt set in from not taking her in the first place?</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Was the groceries stemming from that same sense of guilt?</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Was there any guilt or am I simply looking for ways to resolve the questions I have regarding the entire situation?</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
P.S.

Only because our YD just called and I was reminded of something. While in the Doctor's office OD's friend had taken former's cell phone and was browsing throught the directory askling about different names and numbers, all of which were answered with the exception of one.

Who is Anglecheeks?

No response at all from my former. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ June 07, 2004, 04:11 PM: Message edited by: Trusting Him ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/07/04 09:45 PM
Hi All,

Well I'm going to take off for a three day weekend this coming weekend. Need to clear the head and be by myself for a while I think.

Petvet...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by Petvet:

Wallace: WHATTTTTT! What in the world is your GF up to? Has she lost her mind? I hope flashing lights are going off (STAY AWAY! STAY AWAY! STAY AWAY! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING!). What she did was very rude. She is skimming on you to get you to the altar. Start looking elsewhere when you are ready. You are test driving cars now; keep test driving until you find the right car. Would you buy a car that has many obvious flaws?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep... alarms went off... kinda like an air raid siren. She apologized and said she would be a lot more considerate. With her MOm with her... evidently she didn't think that much of it. We had a very nice long talk. You probably know the kind... it was the shape up or ship out talk... I believe she got the idea. She knows I'm not going to tolerate anymore of that type of behavior. I put up with that type of nonsense off and on for 23 yrs., I'm not about to let it begin all over again.

Your right... I am test driving... and after I"m done working with this car... if it refuses to drive accordingly... I'm going to leave this car in the lot and go elsewhere. I know this is a horrible analogy... so don't get to upset with me. Test driving a car... LOL, I never looked at it quite like that... but for the moment it works.

avondale...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by avondale:

Wallace - I have to agree with Petvet for you, too. How many warnings bells do you need? I know a guy like you ABSOLUTELY CANNOT be desperate enough for companionship to put up with childish behavior like that. You deserve much better! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was at church services on Sunday, and they were talking about "what shape is your heart in"? It was a real good service and I got a lot out of it.

They had 3 different descriptions of how your "heart may be made up.

The stoney heart.

The thorned heart.

The heart of Stone.

Without going through a four page explanation of each heart... and we are talking about the spiritual heart. What it boiled down to... is you must forgive... not only your transgressions, and problems, but others as well. Give it to the Lord, and follow him in his word... and that's what I'm trying to do. Oh... I stumble and fall all over myself from time to time... but I pick myself back up, and just keep trying that much harder.

I know my G/F has faults... such as I do, such as we all do. In essence she really is a very warm and thoughtful person... she just has her moments... such as most of us do. I am a sucker for a warm and caring person. Perfection in anybody was only attained by one person... and they crucified him.

So I'm trying to soften my heart, and not be so critical. maybe I'm becoming to soft... I don't know... I'm still trying to work through this, and see what the Lord leads me to... as I'm going to let him take control of my life again... and I'm not going to interfer this time.

I have to agree with Leah about what to call "OW" I think "Your Friend" is good enough... no need to call her anything more than that.

Leah...


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by Leah:

In the past I discovered he is quite talented at hiding things. He would show me one cell phone bill then later I discovered he bought a second phone. Obviously if he wishes to hide things, he will find a way. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you haven't already noticed... and I'm sure you have... most WWSs are good at hiding things. Most of them have one major problem though... they are horrible liars. You would think that most of them would get good at it after doing it for so long... but most of them never do.

It's a horrible feeling not knowing what your spouse may or may not be up to and it's a horrible way to live on a day today basis. In my case... I prayed to God to let me see the truth concerning the state of my "M". It didn't take long... 3 days later, I found out way more than I ever bargained for. I have no regrets though about finding out everything that I did... It was very painful to look at it, while it was happening, but at least I learned the truth, and that's all that I was concerned with at that point in time.

I know you would like to get to the bottom of it all.. and truly see what your"H" may be up to.

Pray on it... and I'm sure your prayers will be answered.

I'll say an extra prayer for you tonight.


Prayers and blessing to all of you... may the Lord keep you strong in your journey.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ June 07, 2004, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/08/04 12:03 AM
Trusting Him,

In regards to my post earlier

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry... I'm out of control!


I should have been more specific in regards to what I was referring to. I had double posted, and I deleted the first post instead of the second.

What I meant was... I was out of control with my posting abilities. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I apologize if you took it any other way.

I'll go edit it, but thank you for your prayers... I can use all the help in that area that I can get.

You can never have enough of God's Blessings.

I'm quite amazed that your former decided to go to Church rather than to see to your childs needs... especially with the type of injury you described.

IMHO... she may be doing the things she is out of guilt... but I really question her total motivation based on going to Church over tending to an injured child... especially when it's her own child. Then calling from her B/F's house to see how your child is doing?

Wow!!! I don't know exactly what to say to that... except I would be very concerned.


Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/08/04 11:54 PM
Hello Everyone,

Just learned of a big lie and deception on my husband's part. I haven't confronted him yet. It happened months ago and I'm just not sure if I would gain anything by going there. I'm thinking and praying about it for the time being.

Right now he is once again away on business. In fact, he just called to say he was heading for the airport for another state. He was originally thinking of being home tonight and driving up north. Now he's flying to a different state, flying back to another city, driving to another state and heading back here sometime toward the weekend.

Then he might be racing this weekend. But he hasn't let me know about that for sure. He invited me to come but isn't definite if he's going. I've had five other invitations to do things this weekend. I feel like my life is always on hold because his life is one HUGE question mark. I'm trying to decide whether to just plan to not go so I can make definite plans one way or the other.

TRUSTING HIM,

You made some good points that were certainly worth considering. I believe in the importance of extending good will as much as possible. As far as trust, I pray for the ability to trust hubby unless I discover good reasons not to. As lies and deception have happened repeatedly over the course of five years, it becomes harder and harder to trust.

After sixteen years of marriage, my eyes have been opened to a lot of truths that I just didn't want to believe for a very long time. I use to believe my husband truly loved me, wanted the best for me and our marriage. I gave, loved, and forgave time and time again. BUT, I feel that he abused that love and walked all over the grace that was extended to him.

In fact it seems that the more mercy I extend to him, the less he respects me. It's as if I am granting him "a license to sin..." I have truly prayed and strugled with the balance of love and boundaries. I'm still not sure of it all, but I'm continually looking to the Lord for the answers.

I'm so sorry about your daughters ankle. It's hard to imagine her mother getting ready for church and ignoring something as huge as that type of injury. That would be very upsetting to say the least. It sounds as if she very well might be responding to the situation with guilt. I hope things get better for all of you very soon. When I read your posts, I hurt for you and your children. It all seems very familiar. I will keep praying for all of you.

WALLACE,

You, too, remind me of myself. Always wanting to forgive, to think the best of the other individual, to feel things will get better... Please, please just be careful. I want you to be able to enjoy a stable, loving relationship with your lady friend. If that's not possible, please move on and save yourself much heartache to come.

Hi to AVONDALE, PETVET and EC. Hope you are all doing well. Keep looking up!
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/09/04 01:55 AM
TRUSTING HIM

I wanted to add a couple of things to my last post to you. I hope I didn't come across like I was trying to blow off your suggestions. I really did like what you wrote. In fact, I went back and reread your post, then wrote the three items out about negative thinking. I do agree with those statements.

I guess what I was trying to say was that I've had to come to a point of accepting reality rather than the huge fantasy I had going on in my head. I tend to be an incurrable romantic. I always love a happy ending and desperately like to see the prince and princess stroll off into the sunset together. I wanted to believe love was
and is a forever thing.

But I was so in need of a wake up call. Five years ago my husband did his best to convince me he didn't love me. He was very much with someone else and he continuously told me he didn't love me, was no longer attracted to me, found with OW what he never had to me... you get the idea. BUT I was still determined he loved me. I sat there and said as much to him. lol Talk about love being blind, deaf and dumb.

So I hope that explains a little of why I'm now trying to face reality (hopefully not negativity) rather than stay in denial of what I really have.

I do love Philipians 4:8. It is one of my favorite verses. I've memorized it and often quote it back to myself as a check point of my thoughts. I do need it. Thanks again for what you wrote.

WALLACE,

I wanted to add that like you did, I am praying daily for truth. As I wrote earlier, today I discovered a lie from months ago, but an important one. So yes, God is faithful to show us truth. Thanks for writing.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/09/04 01:59 AM
Hey y’all
Thanks for the responses about names...I guess I’ll say to hubby “your girlfriend”. I just cannot bring myself to say her name. Even if Trusting is right and it means I’m holding on to bitterness, I just can’t say it. Sorry! I found a photo of her online and to be honest, in my totally unbiased opinion, I’m much prettier than she is. Honest! LOL I showed the photo to several friends who all agreed with me. My lawyer’s appointment got postponed until the end of this week - I’ll keep ya’ll posted afterwards.

Trusting - I would agree with the others - your former was acting out of guilt in some form or fashion. Guilt for going to church instead of taking her daughter to the emergency room, guilt for not being the mom she should have been, guilt for going to B/F house and not being with daughter after injury, etc.... When she’s with the kids on her days, is she a good mom? Or more self-centered? Did your daughter feel neglected or rejected because her mom didn’t take care of her ankle when the injury first occurred?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Who is Anglecheeks? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you mean Angelcheeks? To be honest, it sounds VERY MUCH like a name from a chatroom (actually a female name, IMHO) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . What’s YOUR opinion?

Wallace - I know you’re getting ready for your little fishing trip. I hope they’re biting for you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . The clarification about your G/F was good. But keep in mind, we hear your vents more than your praises of her. (Which is one of the things we’re here for- to vent, I think!) What you write is the only perspective we have. So if you want me to dance at your wedding, you’d better start balancing it out with some of the good qualities she has.

Leah - My heart just goes out to you. What kind of business does your H have that he travels in that manner? What will you do with the old lie you just found out about?

EC - What are you up to these days?

Petvet - hope you’re doing well, too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

And a hello RMA, DavePR, Chris-CA123, Mx8 , and any lurkers

<small>[ June 08, 2004, 09:03 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/09/04 06:32 PM
Hi All,

I have a break in the action at work and thought I would chime in.

Leah...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by Leah:

Just learned of a big lie and deception on my husband's part. I haven't confronted him yet. It happened months ago and I'm just not sure if I would gain anything by going there. I'm thinking and praying about it for the time being. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it is a big lie... I would bring it out and let it be exposed to the light of day. You will most likely only harbor resentment if you keep it to yourself and it will most likely build until you can't take anymore of what he is dishing out to you IMHO.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I feel like my life is always on hold because his life is one HUGE question mark. I'm trying to decide whether to just plan to not go so I can make definite plans one way or the other. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Living like this takes it's toll. It's not a good place to be on a day to day basis, and it wears on you.

I have a suggestion... have you ever tried making plans for yourself while not waiting to see what your "H" is or isn't going to do?

When you find yourself in situations like this... go out and make plans to do things that you enjoy doing. If after awhile your "H" doesn't notice that your living your life... I would take a long look at my "M", say a nice long prayer, and let God's will be done.

avondale...

Calling the other woman "your girlfriend" is adequate when talking with your "H". I don't think that shows anything negative. Hopefully he doesn't expect you to be her best friend... I think that's a pretty good name to call her.

There was no doubt in my mind avondale... that you were more attractive than your "H's" G/F. I know your a much better person than she is, make no mistake about that. Usually, when the spouse goes out and has an "A"... the OP is usually about 10 steps backwards from what the WW spouse had.

Concerning my G/F's pros and cons.

The good things are, and in no paticular order.

She is very reponsible... a good mother... a loving and caring individual, with a love of the Lord that usually shows through most of the time... but I guess like all of us... we have our moments.

She is not a half bad cook, and she is a very good homemaker as well as a business woman.. and she is financially repsonsible... which is a huge one in my eyes.

She is the complete opposite of my exW. So take all the negatives of my exW, and turn them to postives of my G/F, and there you have it in a nutshell.

In the last 1-1/2 yrs., we have really gotten along rather well. We will get tripped up over mostly things that have to do with the baggage that is still left over from our previous "M", but slowly... it's getting cleaned up... piece by piece.

Well I hope everyone has a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/10/04 01:36 AM
AVONDALE and WALLACE,

Hello to you both. I'm doing okay with the discovery of the lie. I'm disappointed but not bitter or angry. I'm sure I will confront him with it when the timing is right. I need to in order to move forward in our relationship.

Avondale,you asked what line of business he is in. He owns his own engineering/manufacturing business. He is an inventor of many different types of specialty equipment and machines.

I'm anxious to hear how your meeting goes. Hope you're doing well. Oh, I'm not surprised to learn your much prettier than OW. I'm not sure what you look like, but you certainly have a lovely spirit and I'm sure you are equally lovely on the outside. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Whenever anyone learned of OW, they would just tell me hubby was crazy. That always was affirming to me.

WALLACE, Your absolutely right about going on with life without him. Most times I just make plans for the girls and I . But the races involves my ten year old daughter going with him alone if I don't come along. Although he insists she is perfectly safe, I'm concerned about her being there alone while he is racing. The other two girls both have things they are involved with at home. So that is why I am torn this weekend. If his plans don't involve one of the girls, then we always go ahead and plan something on our own. Sometimes he does seem to notice and want to join the fun. Other times he's too busy with his own life.

I'm glad to hear the nice things about your girlfriend. I could kind of read between the lines and pick up on some of that before. After all she must be special if she caught your eye. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

ME,

Today is the fifth anniversary of D-Day. Wow, it's hard to believe. I wrote about it over in Recovery. Basically, I wrote I'm thankful for all I've learned and that I've come to realize I will be okay even if the marriage never truly recovers. We each have to live life to the full and we each have our own choices to make. Sometimes that includes the benefit of a stable marriage but sometimes it doesn't.

Hope each of you is enjoying a good week. Take care.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/10/04 11:39 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I would just refer to your H's lady as "Significant Other" because that's exactly what she has become. That's the reality of the matter.

Leah: Fifth year anniversary of D-day? I cannot imagine dealing with mistrust etc. for that long. Maybe my spirituality is not very strong.

Wallace: I hope you enjoy your vacation. Remember: what bothers you now, will bother your later. You are correct when you say that no one is perfect; however, perfection does not come into play when you are dealing with the "Can I live with it Index". Only you know how the flaws rank on your Index ranking. As long as you can deal with it, it is entirely up to you.

To all: We come from different areas of the country with various experiences. When it comes to cheating spouses, the cover may look different but the deceptions and lies take the same shape regardless of the cover. As I said before, my spirituality may be as good as I thought. I am reading alot of despair and unhappiness from folks who have been going through stuff for many years. Why do you have to continue to be unhappy because someone else does not value your feelings and has lost respect for you. Once again, I bring up the "Can I live with it Index". If you don't know, stress will kill you. Buddy and I have come to a pack that we want as little drama and/or stress as possible. We have just lost a past president. I grant you that he was not one of my favorites; however, I have to give him credit where credit is due. One of the things that I am impress with is the relationship he and the first lady had for eachother. Fifty two years of marriage is almost unheard of in our society. She stood by her man through thick and thin. Even today, she is suffering very much because she has lost her MAN. The point I am trying to make is that many of us have a choice. We can chase after things that are not really there. As a priest said to me when I first went to hin concerning my marital difficulties, he said, "it is what it is". I was heart broken after hearing that statement because it was plan and simple, but he was right. It has become one of my favorite reality statements that keep things in perspective. For many of you, I am afraid that "it is what it is". God Bless You All because I have been through what you are going through. What many of you had does not exist anymore. It is what it is, AND I KNOW IT HURTS TO FACE THAT REALITY.

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/11/04 03:42 PM
Hi Petvet,

Wow, I'm impressed, so many words. lol. You're right..."It is what it is" Thats a good summation of reality. I guess some of us in this thread, me included, want to hold onto dreams a bit too much. But I think I have made progress in seeing reality a bit more than I use to as I wrote to Trusting Him.

Actually, Í really am at peace in my heart right now. Things with hubby aren't the best, but I feel I'm moving forward in life. Eventually, it will either come together or it won't. I'm okay either way now.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I hope you and Buddy can continue to enjoy a "drama-free" relationship. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ME,

I talked to my husband this morning about what I perceived as his lie. He of course had memory failure on this point. But he did take care of the situation this morning, albeit with a bit of an attitude. So, life continues on.

I miss hearing from a lot of you. Hope all is okay. Take care and have a good weekend!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/11/04 04:54 PM
Hi All

I was astonished at Petvet’s lengthy post! In fact, I was in shock and that’s why I couldn’t respond before now. He started this thread, and has been posting for 2 ½ years and this is the LONGEST post he’s ever done. But ouchie... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Petvet - I’m not sure what to say. As far as “it is what it is”- Sometimes things aren’t always what they seem to be. And then there are other times that one hopes whatever “it is” will change. And we all know that sometimes those changes can and do occur. Yet hope is what counteracts the stress. We all know stress can kill you - but each of us have different capacities for handling it and different levels before reaching burnout. I know how easily internet postings can get misinterpreted - in fact, perhaps I misunderstood yours - so I will just go sit in my corner and try not to pout..

Leah - I’m glad you were able to talk to your H about “the lie”. And I think it’s a positive sign, however small, that he “took care of it”. (Now I feel like I’m talking in code, LOL). Even small victories are victories indeed. You are a very gracious person.

Me - I spoke to lawyer and have several ideas about approaching hubby, talking about divorce, and dividing property. In fact, lawyer said I don’t have to decide about the house yet, we could make it a determination after divorce. We could say if I decide to stay there, I’ll pay him his share, or if I decide not to stay, we put it on the market within 6 months. She said it’s not uncommon to decide house separately which is good news for me, cuz I’m so torn. I left the lawyer’s office feeling pretty good and my next step is to talk to H, hopefully later next week (I have a busy weekend).

EC , Wallace (can’t wait for the fishtales) Trusting , WGTT , hope y’all have a great weekend.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/12/04 05:57 AM
Hi Guys and Gals,

Wallace &#8211; Oh boy you and your g/f hitting the bumps? Well that&#8217;s normal, however remember what you see is what you get and you can&#8217;t change anybody but yet they can change their ways. I think I&#8217;m on Trusting Him&#8217;s side, We&#8217;ll live your relationship out with you , watch and support you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> . I miss the companionship but don&#8217;t miss the pain. Have fun on your fishing trip&#8230;I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;ll have the story about the big one that got away as it wrestled you to the ground and took your pole from you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Avondale &#8211; There&#8217;s nothing wrong with seeing an attorney, it&#8217;s the smart thing to do. Why get yourself in financial captivity over your H&#8217;s mess? Just be at peace, God has more love and mercy for us than we realize&#8230;You&#8217;re not going for vengeance and to take from your H, you&#8217;re going because you want to be a good steward of what God gave you. It&#8217;s being faithful over what you have to one day be ruler over much.

Leah &#8211; I&#8217;m sure your H may think you&#8217;re over reacting. The main thing is to know the facts, sometimes lack of trust can push them into it even if they are going through temptation, but that&#8217;s still no excuse on there part. If they are trying to restore the marriage open and honesty is the best way to conquer any obstacle, hand in there&#8230;

Petvet &#8211; Have you read the book you ordered very much? And did you learn anything that you didn&#8217;t know already about a WS? I agree with you 100% on the stress issue, a person can get overwhelmed. I think my survival process has been prayer and reading the bible. A study has been done that prayer keeps a person healthier than without it, especially in times like these. One benefit that happens in a Christians life when going and gone through adversity Is that if you are seeking God in the mist of the storm a greater anointing comes in your life that happens with relationship with God in a special way. That&#8217;s why some people can go through the fire and never get burnt because God is with them in a very close way. It&#8217;s puzzling but it happens and they have the greatest joy deep inside&#8230;.I think what we see here a lot is a persons valley and wilderness experience&#8230;and sometimes it&#8217;s ugly&#8230;....yet they still have joy, if you're watching from the outside, you can't imagine going through it....you say whew! What drama..

Me &#8211; Getting ready to launch out and do some things I&#8217;ve had on hold. YD will be coming in 2 weeks to visit. OD may come.

Hello to all our other buddies&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/12/04 12:49 AM
Hey Everyone,

Well I am getting ready to leave for the weekend, but I couldn't help myself from not posting after reading Petvet's post.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/12/04 01:38 AM
O.k., I'm back for the moment...

Petvet...


"It is was it is"?

You and I go back a long way, and I have to agree with avondale, it is the longest post you have done in a long while... but that statement IMHO is too simplistic and too generalized... not to take anything really away from it... because in many cases it does hold true to a certain degree.

Granted... it may be what it is at the particular moment... but the eventuality of it doesn't always remain a constant. In other words things change... so what maybe the "is", at that particular moment doesn't necessarily mean that in fact it actually will be the final outcome.

I give you my "Hope" quote, at the end of my signature line.

Petvet... I understand the drama that we all went through. It doesn't mean that the drama will end there. In act if I was a betting man (which sometimes I am... (if I know I am going to win on a sure thing) I would say that the drama will continue to at least a certain degree.

I personally think that most people don't go out and look to cause drama in their lives... in fact I think most people look for quite the contrary.

But as life usually is... it sometimes doesn't always go the way we would like to see it... hence... now all of a sudden we may have some drama in our lives.

It will happen to you... and it will happen to all of us... it's just the way life works... that's the reality of it all.

But I liked what you had to say... no offense... but I think your shrink/ MC or whatever he is... was too cut and dry with you. It's just too simplistic, and I'm surprised that your Doctor would be that blunt.

Usually you and I agreee with about 99.9 of everything that's thrown out there... but I'm sorry to say my good friend... I have to say with all due respect, that we can't look at things that Black and White. At least for me... it just doesn't work that easily.

You have been through the mill, just as most of us have been... and with that... sometimes we become a little calloused. Soften your heart my good friend... and try not to put this into a Black or white situation. Your life appears to be going good, as well as mine... but things do happen... as I know you well know.

Glad to hear that you and your buddy are doing good though... keep up the good work.

I have one question for you though... was this your "Swan song", or your last post? Just curious, because it sounded like it may just be.

Leah...

I'm glad to hear that you confronted your "H" with what you had found out. It doesn't surprise me at his respnse though.

In the eyes of the Lord... you are doing the right thing. I would continue doing what your doing... because it is in fact the right thing to do. It is painful... and in fact you are Biblicaly
justified in getting a "D", if in fact you reach a point in time where you feel like... "enough is enough".

I always look forwad to your posts. You, in my mind are a wise person, and I appreciate what you have to say... as I know you speak from the heart.

avondale...

Just curious... have you thought about going through mediation?

The reason why I ask this... is because you can save yourself a ton of money... rather than going through your attorney's on how to divide both of yours and your "H's" assets.

Most of the time.. a Judge will demand mediation, or an agreement before it's brought forth to him. They think their time is too valuable to waste on how the Courts may affect each person's life. It's a sad stituation... but unfortuantely... it's true.

EC...

So your YD is coming to visit you with the possibility that the OD may visit as well?

Praise God!!! I know you have been looking forward to this for quite a long time.

I agree with you in your last post... without prayer, and the Lord... I as well would not have made it through this ordeal.


WGTT, Momax, and Trusting Him...

Prayers and blessings to you all, and hope everything is going well for you.

If I missed anyone... "ditto"

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/12/04 12:20 PM
Hi all! Oh Boy, ouch!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Everyone: I knew I was going to get taken apart by you folks. First of all, Buddy and I do not live a drama free life. We try to minimize the stress as much as possible. Dealing with kids etc., there is not such thing as a drama free life. Life is not perfect for us either; however, after going through my trials with my ex, I have a new perspective on life. Most people including myself take the "It is what it is" statement the wrong way when they first hear it. On the surface, it sounds simple, but after you sit down a ponder the true meaning of the statement, one comes to the conclusion that it is more about acceptance which is more than black and white. Some of you are correct when you say that the tolerance level varies from person to person. My intent was to initiate thought. I did not expect everyone to agree with me. Everyone knows their particular situation better than anyone and knowing this I try to help wherever I can. That's the reason why I don't write lengthy post because I don't want to cross the line in my comments because folks are going through crisis in their lives, and I want to encourage them wherever possible rather than discourage. Besides, I am a person of very few words anyway, but I am direct and to the point. My comments were not directed at anyone particularly; I thought my comments would be helpful. Yes, God allows us who believe to walk through the fire without getting burnt; however, those who walk through the fire feel the heat, and it is that heat that produces the stress and pressure. Wallace made the comment along the lines that "it is what it is" for only a period of time. I hope I understood his statement correcty. My opinion is either one accepts the way it is, or one has to initiate action to change the way he reacts or take himself out of the environment altogether. Many times situations don't change by themselves. This is my opinion. I am not an expert.

EC: Yes, I finish the book two days ago and receive some insight behind the mindset of a runaway wife, but I was quite baffled by the comments of the author at the end. It seems as though she was justifying the actions of these woman. What do you think?

Leah and Avondale: I support you. No harm was intended by my statements.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/13/04 05:28 AM
Petvet, I’m sooo glad you elaborated in your most recent post. It helped to have a more thorough explanation behind what you had said! I’m going to respond in Chris-CA123 style:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Petvet said: I knew I was going to get taken apart by you folks </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don’t think you were “taken apart”...but I think without the complete explanation of where you were coming from (as provided in your most recent post) it sounded pretty negative.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> after going through my trials with my ex, I have a new perspective on life
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think we all have experienced a new perspective on life. But as we’re feeling our way through it, we tend to go slower. It’s like finding a light switch in a dark, unfamiliar room.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">..and ponder the true meaning of the statement, one comes to the conclusion that it is more about acceptance which is more than black and white </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally agree - it IS about acceptance, and acceptance by its very nature has varying degrees (more than black and white). I am reminded of the AA prayer, which says the same thing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My intent was to initiate thought </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well you certainly did that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Besides, I am a person of very few words anyway, but I am direct and to the point. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well don’t let the reaction to your more lengthy posts scare you away from posting longer in the future! The thought provocation was VERY good. It just helped me personally to hear where you are coming from with the second post, which explained things better. Perhaps you should post in quadruple-length next time, so we get the whole picture?? (OK, I know there is little chance of that, but it can’t hurt to ask, LOL...)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My opinion is either one accepts the way it is, or one has to initiate action to change the way he reacts or take himself out of the environment altogether. Many times situations don't change by themselves </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think there is a more middle ground (see response on acceptance, above). I’d rather be still and hear God than to charge ahead without Him. (I know you weren’t implying otherwise, but just wanted to make myself clear for others reading this.)

Thanks again for clarifying where you were coming from. I hope the extra words didn't zap your energy for the weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> We need to hear from you next week (or sooner!).

<small>[ June 12, 2004, 12:37 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/14/04 07:34 PM
PETVET,

Thanks for your second posting. No need to worry how things were taken on my part. I interpreted your first post as saying one needs to accept what is. Acceptance for me has been a key issue, so I can appreciate that statement. As is the case with most things, balance is key. I often think of the serenity prayer. "Help me to accept what can not be changed, to change what I can change and the wisdom to know the difference." Sorry if that's somewhat paraphrased. I do love the message of that prayer. It's right where I am in this marriage.

WALLACE,

Thank you for the kind, encouraging words. I hope you enjoyed your weekend away. We look forward to continuing to hear good things from you. How is your dad? Any new developments with your parents?

AVONDALE,

I'm so glad to hear your appointment with the lawyer went well. I'm sure it's a relief not to have to make any decisions on the house yet. With time and prayer, you'll know what to do.

Yes, sometimes writing on this forum is like speaking in code. lol I'm sometimes unsure of how much I should share as this is a public forum. If you should ever want to write to me privately, my e-mail address is Leahlike @yahoo.com. Anyone else writing on this thread is welcome to do the same. Some things shouldn't be written in a public forum.

Hope you had a good weekend. I'm still praying for you and your husband. Even though we need to accept "what is" that doesn't mean God still isn't in the business of changing it all around. He does work miracles and although I feel I have accepted the current state of my marriage, that doesn't mean I've given up hope that God could still do a miracle. I still pray for that each day, while at the same time, I continue to move forward in my life.

EC

How wonderful that your daughter is coming to see you and possibly the other one too! It seems you really have gone through the hardest of times. I hope for you that your time of healing grows into a time of peace and joy.

TRUSTING HIM,

We miss hearing from you. Trust all is well.

WGTT and MOM8 Hi to you both also.


ME,

I'm keeping busy with my three daughters. It's great to be out of school and enjoying the summer. My husband has been travelling much of the time so I'm here without him. I still have to struggle with the loneliness factor but am working hard to not get discouraged. I try to continue to be careful to think of the many things for which I have to be thankful. One of which is all of you! Have a good week. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/15/04 12:07 PM
Hi y’all

EC - That’s great news about your daughter(s) visiting. I know this is something you’ve been hoping will happen for a long time. Do you have anything special planned while they’re there? (I’m hoping both will come!) And what are the things you’ve had on hold that you’re getting ready to launch? You’ve alluded to things like that for over a year now. Can you share with us?

Wallace - Can’t wait for you to get back and tell us about your fishing tales <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Leah - Your posts are always so thoughtful and kind. I’ve put your email address in my book for future reference, thanks. What kind of things are y’all doing this summer? Any vacation plans?

Petvet - Do you have any summer plans? What does your son do during the summer? Do you get to have him for a vacation? I seem to recall you and Buddy taking your kids to the beach last year...

Trusting - Haven’t heard from you in a while...how are things going? I hope we didn’t scare you away! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Me - I meet with hubby tomorrow (Wednesday) night to find out what he’s thinking regarding divorce. I’ll post a report afterwards. I have my facts and info gathered and am ready for anything with God’s help.

WGTT, Mommax8 - not sure if you’re still reading this thread, but if so, “hi”

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/15/04 10:17 PM
Hi All,

Guess what?

I caught a 14 lbs. rainbow trout!!! j/k

I didn't catch a thing... LOL. It rained quite a bit and it was pretty cold and windy almost the whole time I was up in the mountains. I did get a chance to clear my head and enjoy the outdoors though. It is very beautiful country. I saw quite a few Elk though. I really didn't want to come back into the City... but there are all those responsibilities to take care of... so I decided to come back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by Petvet:
Hi all! Oh Boy, ouch!!!

Everyone: I knew I was going to get taken apart by you folks.



</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I came across that way in my post... that wasn't my intention. I'm glad as well that you clarified your post... it all is very clear to me now.

You see!!! avondale is right... you should write longer posts. Personally I thought it was very thought provoking, and definitely worth commenting on when I read it.

I have one for you as well... that my "Shrink" threw out there when I was seeing him.

"Everything happens for a reason"! What do you think about that one? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

All in all though... after you clarified and elaborated on your post... I agree with what you mean.

That was a great post though... you need to throw more of those out there from time to time... just to see if we are awake... LOL.

Glad to hear you and buddy are doing well. My G/F and I are doing well at the moment as well. How is your son doing? Is he on Summer Vacation from school?

EC...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by Ec:

We’ll live your relationship out with you , watch and support you . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks for the support so far EC and everyone else... all of you have been great. It is a roller coaster ride at times.

Your going to have to keep us updated on when your YD, and possibly your OD come to see you.

I'm so glad to see you and your daughters getting closer after everything went down... I know how much that means to you.

avondale...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by avondale:

Wallace (can’t wait for the fishtales. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL... I got a good laugh when I read that. You make me laugh, and put me in an upbeat mood when I read posts like this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I wish I had one to tell you... but alas... the fish really were not biting with what little time I had. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Any word from your attorney or "H" as of lately?

Leah...

We are all glad that you are here as well... and I find your posts very uplifting as well.

With your "H" gone all the time... I'm sure the lonliness is very discouraging for both you and your children. Your on the right track though... by staying busy. How are your children making out...not seeing their Father all that often. I remember being away on business all the time... from a personal stand point... I couldn't wait to get home. A lot has changed since those days though... Even with everything going on in our lives... I know that loneliness can creep in on us at times... and it's not a good feeling when it happens.

But with the Lord at our side... we indeed are truly not alone... we just sometimes feel like we are, in spite of all that we truly know.

Hang in there... hopefully your "H" will find his way.

Oh I fogot to let you know about my Dad. He does indeed have Cancer, and he is going for a pretty serious operation this August...so I am going to try to fly back to see bothmy MOm and my Dad.

As far as the "D" talk between my parents... after the Cancer scenario came forth... all that talk has ended.

Trusting Him...

I hope I didn't scare you away with my one post. If I offended you in any way... I didn't mean for it to come across that way. Let us know how you are doing when you get a chance.

WGTT and Momax...

Hope you both are doing well.

Well everyone... I hope you all are having a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/16/04 02:26 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: I hope everything went well with your H. I'm glad you understood what I was saying in my statement. Yes, Buddy and i along with the kids are going to DC next week for some siteseeing.

Wallace: Well, at least you had allot of time to think. Since fishing was not good using your fishing line, you probably should have tricked the trout to the surface then club it with a 2 by 4 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ; as a result, you would have had something to bring home. Just don't get caught by the Game Warden. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/17/04 12:33 AM
Hi all,
Just got back from dinner with hubby...just in case you didn’t know, Outback has added some new items to their menu and I highly recommend their new Steak Salad. It has sliced sirloin cooked to order AND french fries in the salad mix with bleu cheese vinaigrette dressing. Interesting and yummy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

But I digress. The meeting went well. Hubby’s hands were shaking and once again, God gave me a supernatural peace while I was there. I was able to explain how it made me feel, waiting for him to call (with news I didn't want to hear) the last 4-5 months, and he apologized. He apologized again for not calling when we parted ways in the parking lot. So I think he realizes now how it made me feel. He had no particular explanation other than he was really busy with work - he is Dept. Chair of Fine Arts dept so lots of responsibility and paperwork (not his strong point).

We talked about assets and liabilities (only two of those - mortgage and home equity, since our credit cards are in individual names). Our homework is for him to get values of the assets (I already know them but he doesn’t know that) and I will list household goods. We will meet again next month and compare lists. I think the plan is to do as much up front work on our own to save lawyer costs (my lawyer’s suggestion). Hopefully we won’t need mediation - but the only sticking point might be alimony, so we’ll see.

He did say one weird thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Do I think the kids would want to get together with us and all go out for dinner as a family? I said I didn't think so (I know daughter won't, and pretty sure son would probably opt not to also). I didn't want to make hubby feel bad, but on the other hand, that's the effect of his behavior and I'm not going to shield him from it.

All in all, I think I did really well. I was focused and remembered all my points. I didn’t get emotional (well, I teared up just once and that was only briefly during discussion about house). I had everyone in my home group at church praying for me, and hopefully y’all did too. It obviously helped a lot. Thanks so much. I’ll keep you posted!

QUESTION for the guys - I know you’ve all made mention of child support. Do any of you pay alimony? If so, can you give me a ballpark figure as to the amount?

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 06:02 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/17/04 01:51 AM
Hi All,

Just passing through to say a quick hello...I'm working late tonight and I'm in between a break...

Avondale that's great you were able to meet with your H and discuss things. Did he seem like he still had an eye for you? Maybe a glimpse of hope for the future?

It's a good thing if you guys agree as much as possible outside court( if it comes to that)...

Others might have more info on Alimony. The laws and situations very from State to State. Stay strong, keep the faith.

Well, gotta run see ya later....
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/18/04 02:30 PM
AVONDALE,

So glad to hear things went well with your husband. I've been praying a lot for you, especially for your meeting on Wednesday. It sounds as if you were calm, cool and colected. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
That's a great answer to prayer!

I'm glad that you are working together to resolve things as much as possible out of court. That will save you time, money and aggravation. Concerning allimony, you might want to try to look that up on the internet. You could type in allimony and the state you live in. An attorney once told me they have charts with formulas to calculate that based on his salary and how long you've been married. As EC said, it varies from state to state. It would be great if that were never needed.

Like EC, I was wondering if you sense any "glimmer" there. At least you're both being decent with each other if nothing else. Will keep praying it can become more.

WALLACE,

Sorry the fish weren't biting much. At least you had time away. That's always good. Thanks for the reminder that we're never alone with God at our side. I know that intellectually but sometimes need to remind my heart.

I will keep praying for your parents. I'm glad to hear "D" talks have ceased. Maybe that will be a permanent change with all that's taking place. I'm sure God's at work in the midst of it all.

Hope you are doing well and that things are continuing to go well with your girlfriend. Please keep us updated either way. All relationships have their ups and downs and it's sometimes helpful just to vent. I truly understand that from first hand experience. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ME,

Things started out pretty rough this week with H but have been better the last couple of days. The girls and I have been keeping busy with lots of different things from work projects to hanging at the pool. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hope you all have a great weekend!
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 06/18/04 11:15 PM
To All

*chuckles* No, no one scared me away. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Just have been busy with work and other things that seem to crop up now and then.

Praying that all is well with everyone and I can see that I have a few post to catch up on and will plan to tonight or tomorrow. If not, then next week as the children and I are off to a week of Church Summer Camp starting Sunday Morning.

Which of course brings up the latest in our lives. I received an email from my boss today asking if I could travel to her town to work next week. It was only later that she remembered that I had already scheduled vacation for that week but the dilema was that an employee was retiring and I needed to learn what I could about her job and functions before she exited the door.

She understood the commitment to the children and asked if I would talk to my former to see if something could be worked out. The two older children could go and have a good week without me as they each have been for the past 5 years. The hitch was the YD. This was her first year getting to go as a pre-camper which requires a parent to be there also. I was going as camp photographer so she was really happy that she also was getting to go.

I called the former wife and explained what was going on and that my boss and I had discussed it but she wanted to know if anything could be worked out.

What about YD, if you do not go she will not be able to and I am not going.

I understand that. It was something that just came up and my boss asked if I could make the arrangements if possible.

If your job depends on it then I can understand. If not, I would like to think that you would honor your commitment to your family and children. This has been planned for some time now.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> No...I did not respond to her comment, honor your commitment to your family and children. I just gritted my teeth and changed the subject. Why? Probably just bait to get me to respond so she can once again justify her anger and her decisions.

But am I missing something here?

I will admit I allowed an atmosphere, or contributed to it for our marriage to reach the point of disaster, BUT her with 2 boyfriends prior to her filing divorce and a new one only days later and she wants to spout about honor and commitment.

It is what it is! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Praying that all are well and I will try to get bacl tonight. Canceled cable due to fiances so had to change to a dial up ISP. It makes it rather hard to get on when you wait 10 minutes for a page to load. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/20/04 11:22 AM
Petvet, Wallace, Everlasting Compassion, Trusting

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Happy Father's Day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

If your thoughtfulness in posting is any indication, I know you guys desire to be and ARE super dads despite the circumstances your parental route has taken. Have a great day!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/20/04 09:17 PM
Hi All!


Thanks Avondale, hope your weekend is going great!


Question for anyone - Have you had a joint debt with your xspouse that you were successful in removing your name, without having to either sell the item or pay it off to get your name removed from the debt?
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/21/04 11:07 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: Good job Madam! As far as alimony is concern, it is pretty much up to you to come up with a figure. Hit him for a percentage of his earnings. Your attorney has to have some formula for figuring this stuff out. HAVE NO MERCY! His salary should be public record if teaches at a public institution and you need to get a subpoena to get the sales figures from his recordings plus royalties. I think the sticky point with alimony is normally the length of time.

EC: Depending on the property, Quit Claim Deed will remove name from the property, but you will have to get your ex to sign the document.

Me: Had a good Father's Day.

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/21/04 04:51 PM
Hi EVERYONE!!

Happy Father's Day a day late! I thought of you guys yesterday and wanted to post and wish you a good day but was out all day and too spent by night to write. Anyhow I hope all you fathers had a great day. I ditto Avondale's comments about you all seeming like a caring group of dads. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

PLEASE HELP!
I could really use your prayers and help concerning a situation I'm currently facing. My husband is refusing to let me see his phone bills. It has been a couple of years since I've asked to see them. Because his past affairs have been long distance, phone bills have been part of the accountability and trust building process. He has always said I could see them, I just needed to ask. Well, I asked a couple of weeks ago and explained to him that I was feeling uneasy about some things and could use some reassurance that everything was okay. He told me he would think about it and let me know later. Well, his answer on Friday was a big, solid NO.

His refusal to show them to me could be one of two things.... he's guilty of yet another affair or he is just being highly inconsiderate and obstinate. Either choice isn't good. BUT what do I do with it???? I know I need boundaries here but short of filing is there anything else I can do? I've already expressed to him my great disappointment and lack of understanding in regard to his decision. He said he feels good about his decision and that he has to have his limits. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> He is extremely controlling, so this might just be yet another control issue. ANY SUGGESTIONS? Thanks for the input.


TRUSTING HIM,

So sorry about your wifes comment. I know that had to hurt and was just so amazing based on where she has been. You were wise to not respond. I know from personal experience that taking the "bait" just leads to further exasperation. You and God both know the truth of who is committed in your relationship. And who walks with honor and integrity. Just keep telling yourself the truth of that. Hope your week away with your kids or work goes well.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/21/04 07:49 PM
Hi All,

A belated "Happy Father's Day to all the Fathers... I hope you had a vey enjoyable day.

Sorry it took me so long to post... but I had a very busy week last week (we are short on people due to vacations), and I spent most of my weekend just enjoying all my kids for the most part.

avondale...

Well it seems like you and your "H" are taking the best route you can in consideration of the division of property.

As far as Alimony is concerned... I think that depends on the State your in. Most States do allow for alimony... and in most cases... it is based on the percentage of earnings the other spouse makes... as well as the Judge and the way he wants to initiate the formula for allowing for alimony.

You will most likely have to be able to prove to the Judge what your "H's" earnings are and what his potential may be at this point in time.

I didn't have to pay any alimony, as I took on all the debt load, etc. So the Judge awarded her nothing in that case.

You should consult your Attorney on it... as he should be well aware of what you are capable of getting.

It appears it's just a matter of time now as far as the final outcome on your "M". I'm very sorry to hear that he is still staying the course.

Concerning your "H" wanting to get together for dinner with you and all the kids. I don't find that request very strange... IMHO, I think he is missing what he lost, as he may want to try to reconnect with you and your children so the pain of what he has lost is not as great. In other words... "have his cake and eat it too!"

I can understand your children not possibly wanting to do this. My kids, as well as most IMO would probably feel the same way.

EC...

I had joint debt with my exW... and I ended paying off all of it... that was my only way out.

What kind of debt are we talking about? That makes a difference.

To thebest of my knowledge a Quit Claim Deed will only transfer property... it will not however transfer the debt. You have to either pay the existing loan off, or refinance it in yours or her name only.

The only way to possibly remove yourself to a certain degree that I know of... is have either of the spouses involved... take claim to it... and pay it off. If the spouse doesn't pay... and it's a joint debt... then they will more than likely hold both you and her responsible.

You can get your debts incurred by both you and your exW... split up by the Judge... but if they don't pay what they are responsible for... the debtor(s) will still be responsible for the amount owed. In other words... the creditor will still seek you out if your name is on the loan... or whatever it may be.

Hope that made some sense EC.

Petvet...

Glad to hear that you had a good Fathers Day!

Leah...

Your husbands refusal to show you his telephone bill doesn't sound real good I'm sorry to say.

If he really wants to put the "M" in good standing and earn your trust and respect... it doesn't appear that he is trying very hard IMHO.

Since he is a "Controller"... it may be that he wants to have the upper hand on this one... or it could swing the other way... he may be hiding something.

I would just keep your eyes open, and say some more prayers... things will expose themselves for what it's real worth is, in time.

Trusting Him...

I as well am sorry to hear that your "W" made that type of comment.

Is she seeing any type of IC?

Well I hope you get this worked out... it sounds like there is just not enough of you to go around.

Me...

Well I had a good weekend and a great Father's Day!

Hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ June 21, 2004, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/21/04 08:15 PM
Trusting - I wonder if you’re at Church Camp after all....hope things go well with whatever the outcome was regarding your kids/wife/job situation.

Leah - I’m at a loss as to what to say. Is your husband THAT inconsiderate and controlling? I mean, to me his reaction was the epitome of both traits! You are a special woman indeed to put up with that! So let’s assume he IS having an affair. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I think you would want concrete, solid evidence before confronting him. Have you thought about getting his phone records another way? Via internet, perhaps? Or going to his office? Or is that much snooping uncomfortable for you? How did you see the bills during previous affairs? You also said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said he feels good about his decision and that he has to have his limits. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course he feels good about the decision, because it suits HIM. But what is this about HIS limits?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> In the past, have you seen any counselors? What would they have said? Could you “quote them” to your husband (since he’s not listening to you)?

We’ll continue to pray that God will show positive proof to you if he IS having an affair, or to give you peace if he’s not. I’m sorry that his actions do not seem encouraging.

<small>[ June 21, 2004, 03:17 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/22/04 12:24 AM
Hi All,


Wallace - The debt is a joint auto loan, however exw was awarded the car as we agreed, problem is I would like to get my name off of it, but so far can't unless it's sold, refinanced, etc...

Leah - I agree with the others, you will need to get the facts and get peace. He may be a controller but you find most controllers are fearful of people when you get down to the core of them. Look at Sadam Hussen, hiding in a Rats Hole <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> How low can you go...

As you know open exposure to an affair is the best thing a BS can do.

We can be a:
Peace Keeper and set back and watch things fall apart, knowing the cause.

Or we can be a Peace Maker and bust up what's happening, eventhough it's uncomfortable and painful for all parties..

Or we can be a Truce Maker and live in a False peace knowing things were never settled and war lashes out with every word and action.......

I remember I was sleep one night, one eye opened, one eye closed, lights were out and exww was on the PC and I knew she clicked send. I then got up and asked to see her email account, now this was after guy #2. She told me she gave me all her email account names, and was open to anything I wanted to see prior, etc.... Now she refused and argued and told me I was wrong and to stay out of her private business, defensive and said she sent the email to her cousin in CA @ 1:00am, and what's my problem... Well after time went by that cousin happened to be guy #3.

I'm not saying your H is back at it again, but it sure don't look good. Get the facts...My exww said she didn't want to cooperate because "I was tracking her" as the WS call it when you connect the smell with the food source. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sometimes that smell, is the smell of a dead rat(OM/OW) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> and it ain't pretty.....

Avondale - How are you doing these days? Are you staying encouraged?

Petvet - As I told Wallace, it's an auto loan, so a Quiting Deed Claim wouldn't work, but thanks for the info.

Trusting Him - Stay encouraged this mess does pass and there is a happy ending.


Me: Nothing new, just living life.....

A Fathers Day thought - A daddy will drop a seed in a woman and go about his business never to look back again the seed....

A Father will drop a seed in a woman and cultivate the seed and help it grow into something great and wonderful....

Oh do we need more Fathers today!

A love fact:

When you truly love someone, it will hurt you to see them hurt, it would hurt you to hurt them, it will grieve you to see them grieve.


Take Care
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/22/04 01:17 AM
Thanks Everyone,

I appreciate your input. One of the things that's so frustrating is the lack of ability to track anything. Because my husband has his own business, everything is under lock and key and away from any possible scrutiny. All his computer activities, correspondence, financial stuff and phone bills,etc. are sent and filed away at his place of business.

QUESTION... Do you all think it would be wrong to pursue a separation based on the lack of given accountability? It seems that I need to either accept living like this, very separate lives, with no reassurance of fidelity, or I need to pursue a divorce. Can you think of any other reasonable measures that might fall in between??? With his need for independence and freedom and his given personality, I just can't think of any other in between ground.

I'm so heartbroken for the sake of the girls. Every time I think of them I keep thinking there has to be a way to make this work. But I think I'm running out of options. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Thank you all for being here. I appreciate you bunches.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/22/04 01:41 AM
EC - Here’s a thought...Sell the car to your XWW for $1 (assuming you didn't want to make a ton of money off it!). That way you can get your name off and it is something she can afford. I would think she’d be agreeable to that price, and it would be taking it off your hands. She could mail you the title, you get it notarized, and send it back. Would that work? When do your daughters arrive??

Leah - Are you saying you don’t have a key to his business? If he goes out of town for the day(s) why can’t you go in there and play detective? I personally would love to do this for you. Just give me the address! I’m not kidding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> What is his office set up (other employees, security guards, check in at gates, etc.)? I absolutely HATE that evil has crept into so many marriages, yours being just one of them. Mine is another. I remember when you first posted, you talked about your marital problems being spiritual in nature. The same is true of my marriage. Have you talked to a counselor (Harleys?) lately about this? Maybe you should talk to your minister about your husband's latest secret behavior (w/cell phone bill). I would not presume to say “leave” or “stay” without personally knowing more about your situation, but someone who is a professional might be more inclined to give an opinion.
I guess my motto is, stay as long as you can. When your grace for staying runs out, you’ll know it and if God doesn’t refill your grace container, then maybe it’s time for separation. I don’t know what your state’s laws are, but I don’t think anyone would recommend going straight from marriage to divorce. Perhaps the actual separation might “WAKE UP” your husband. We can pray for that, anyway.

<small>[ June 22, 2004, 07:06 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 06/22/04 04:44 PM
Hi all,


Avondale - Thanks for the info, but I must be missing something. The car is in her possession as agreed, the loan is joint. How can I buy the car from her and then sell it to her for $1?? How then am I free from the loan?


Leah - I wouldn't get a seperation without knowing the facts. As Avondale said it's not wise to jump to soon without trying fix all the in betweens...You must exhaust all options, and know you did constuctive things to resolve the issues, otherwise you'll feel guilty in the end, wondering if you did the right thing when things go wrong...You'll look at your kids and say, why did I leave, I should have been more patient, I reacted instead of responded, etc...

Many things in a relationship can be resolved if addressed properly....To get peace means to bring everything out in the open, however I feel in your case you need a third party involved because you cannot reason with a controlling person alone....As Avondale said, try the Harley's and see what they say.....


Hello everyone else.....
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/22/04 04:48 PM
EC - YOU didn't miss something , I did! I didn't realize it was a joint loan, I thought it was a joint title. Sorry for the confusion. Disregard my advice, at least this time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/23/04 01:57 AM
Hi Everyone,

Thanks for being here and for the advice you've all offered. I've got some good news!! After another phone discussion last night, my husband called this morning to say he's decided he's going to let me see the phone bills. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> So, I guess it really was more a power play than trying to hide something.

I don't think I'll ever get to a point of truly understanding him. Even with days of knowing how upset I was, he wasn't moved until he thought he might be suffering a possible consequence. I'm afraid that unless it hurts him personally, he isn't touched by my pain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

AVONDALE,

You asked about a key. I have a key to the building but he doesn't like me to use it. All the files are locked up and that is where all the info. is. That is what I don't have any keys to. I've tried snooping in the past, but didn't get very far. There are employees who are there pretty much any time that I can get there. So that would definitely raise some eye brows.

We did go back to counselling but it didn't bring us any further along. The counselor we saw just wasn't much good in my opinion. I was very close to calling the Harley's. I still might check with my husband about it. It is expensive but I can't help but think we would get so much more from the experience compared to our other counselling sessions. I'm trying to remember if you called them. If so, how many times did you talk to them? Did your husband ever talk to them?

Thanks again for being a caring friend. I loved your offer of PIíng with me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC

Thanks too for your counsel about not jumping on a separation. I guess after five years of trying, I don't think I could be accused of jumping without some considerable thought. It's the thought of what it would do to the girls that tears me apart.

What do you think of the whole idea of boundaries, and accountability with someone who is so controlling and unwilling to prove himself trustworthy? Where do you draw the line between trusting God with a person verses enabling their sinful behavior? AVONDALE, WALLACE, TRUSTING HIM and OTHERS please feel free to chime in too.

Thanks again everyone.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/24/04 06:00 PM
Hi All,

Hope everones week is going well.

EC...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by EC:

The debt is a joint auto loan, however exw was awarded the car as we agreed, problem is I would like to get my name off of it, but so far can't unless it's sold, refinanced, etc...

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Question... did the Judge split the debt load that you and your exW had as well as the assets, at the time of the final "D" decree? If so... who did he make responsible for the car loan... if anybody.

If the loan wasn't listed as a debt, by either of you... and the Judge did not assign the debt to either your exW or you... then you will probably have to do the following... but it's different in each State so check with the DMV to see how you go about transferring the title of the Car.

One of you will need to refinance the car loan in one of your names and pay the Bank that you owe the money to. That Bank should have title to the Car... and they most likely will tranfer title to the new bank that picks up the loan for refinancing on the car. I believe whoever takes on the loan... the Bank will release the title to... once the loan is paid off in full. It depends on the type of Bank your dealing with though.

Call the Bank and the DMV, and explain your situation to them... and between the both of them... they should be able to get you where you need to be.

Leah...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by Leah:

What do you think of the whole idea of boundaries, and accountability with someone who is so controlling and unwilling to prove himself trustworthy? Where do you draw the line between trusting God with a person verses enabling their sinful behavior?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Where do you draw the line?

When you know in your heart that you have had enough... and it is damaging you and your children IMHO. Their will be no doubt in your mind when that time arrives.

He has committed adultery... so... from the King James Version of the Bible... you are justified in leaving him.

If you in fact know he is acting sinful, and you feel you are contributing to it. Then you are going to have to set boundaries. If he doesn't live up to them... then your going to have to ask yourself... do I want to keep living like this?

Everyone is different in what they are willing to put up with. So IMHO... only you can truly answer that question.

If in fact he is cheating... I personally would call it a day.

avondale. Petvet, Trusting Him, and anyone else who I may have missed...

Hope everything is well.

Me...

Well my exW's IRS problems have started to come back to haunt me... so it's back off to Court again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I just wonder if it ever ends.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/25/04 12:04 PM
Hi all! I'm on vacation in DC and just checking my emails and such at the hotel.

EC: Can you just sell the vehicle and eliminate the debt entirely. Why don't you just ask you ex to have your name off of the title since she owns the car? Of course, this will require you communicating with her which I am not sure you want to do.

Wallace: What's up!

Avondale: Just drove though NC, pretty nice looking state. I think that's where you are from, right?

Leah: I'm keeping my mouth shut. OK, I can't I can't. Are you willing to put all your chips on the table? Your H does not have any respect for you. Ok, I think I better shut up before I get the crowd upset with me again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Me: Vacationing in DC with Buddy and kids. Site seeing day.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/26/04 05:22 AM
Hi All,

Well it's Friday... YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!

Petvet...

Glad to hear your enjoying yourself in D.C..

Lots to see and do there... so I'm sure your having a good time.

I think you should continue on with what you were going to finish saying. I personally think your on the right track with what you were going to say to Leah.

Leah...

I personally wouldn't stand for anymore disrespect, lies, etc, from your "H".

If I was in your shoes... and all things considering... my spouse would really have to go the extra mile to prove to me that it would never happen again, and that they would have to make a real effort to show me that they wanted the "M" to work as badly as I did. If that didn't happen... I would call my attorney and get the "D" proceedings rolling. Sometimes there is just no sense in putting yourself and your children through that kind of torment, over, and over, and over again. It usually doesn't get better... it usually gets worse.

My G/F knows, if I even think she is up to something, and I can prove it... I would call it a day... and send her on down the road. She of course would do the very same thing to me as well.

I guess after what we have all been through... our tolerance level for stuff like that... is zero.

I never wanted it to be that way... it's just how it all turned out.

Hope everyone has a great day, and a better weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/25/04 08:40 PM
Petvet - Wow,- to hear from you on vacation is such an honor! I hope you’re having a great time. My daughter and her hubby are going to DC over July 4 for a belated anniversary/vacation. I’m a little bit concerned due to terrorist threats and the holiday weekend. Hey, I’m a mom, worrying comes naturally!

Leah - I know you are walking a fine line in your soul. Go where you have peace. God will direct you in what to do, and I pray it will be totally clear to you. Did you look at his phone records? Keep us posted.

EC - probably have your daughter(s) with you right now. I know you’re having a blast! Let us know if you get a chance to talk to them regarding the lies their mom told them about finances. I seem to recall that was a concern of yours over the last couple of years.

Wallace - What is with your ExW and the IRS? More stuff she didn’t pay or lied about? I’m sorry this keeps dragging out for you. I sure hope I don’t have to do that; since we’ve been filing separately since my husband left, I think that might lessen the chance of any problems for me.

Trusting - Can’t wait to hear the campfire stories. Is there any chance of repercussions from your job since you went to camp instead (I assume that’s where you have been and not due to your ignoring us)?

Not sure who else is still on this thread...so if I didn't mention your name it's cuz you haven't posted in the last week! Hope everyone has a great weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ June 25, 2004, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 06/26/04 01:35 AM
Hi Everyone,

PETVET,

Indeed it is an honor that you checked in while on vacation. I live in Virginia so you're vacationing in a great area. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I hope you, Buddy and son are having a wonderful time.

Please don't hesitate to post your thoughts to me. I think I need to hear them. The title of this thread is what drew me hear initially. All you great people keep me here. I do agree there is a mighty absense of respect in this relationship. It is very sad and it obviously needs to change. I respect your opinion, so go ahead and let me have it; the good, bad and the ugly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WALLACE,

Sorry to hear your experiencing difficulties with your ex-wife and the IRS. I sure hope you can soon get that all worked out.

Thanks for your encouragement to stay strong and to exercise boundaries. I agree with all you've written. I've dealt with enough, so I am ready to have a relationship with respect. If it can not happen, I'm prepared to let go.

AVONDALE,

Thanks for praying. I will continue to seek God for truth and clarity. In case you haven't seen, you've got mail.

EC,

If you're visiting with your daughters, I hope you have a wonderful time. I'll pray for that.

TRUSTING HIM,

I'm anxious to hear how your week at camp went. I hope it was a great time for all of you.

ME,

I have not seen any phone bills yet although my H says he plans to give them to me. He has been traveling for the majority of the week. He's currently gone again.

It continues to be challenging here. I'm praying for truth, and at this juncture am prepared to end the relationship should I find there is another involvement. At this point, I have no proof of anything, just a lot of speculation. So time will tell. Thanks for all your support. Hope everyone has a happy weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 06/26/04 06:15 PM
All

Back from camp...exhausted...tons of dirty and smelly, stinky clothes that have to be washed. *frowns*

No problems with the job, unless something came up while I was out. Before leaving and after sharing with my boss what my former has said she asked if I wanted to move to her city. She seems to think that it would do my former some good for me to not be so close. But close enough that I could still have every other weekend. It is a thought.

Camp!

Great week of 100 kids learning about God and His love. And about the weather and the effects of rain and then sunshine causing an abrupt rasing of the humitity to ner 100% and making life almost unbearable for the adults but having no effect on the littles ones. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

The OD and another 13 year old girl were responsible for the daily upkeep and instruction of 4 third grders. This included everything, all meals, daily cleaning of themselves and their cabin. Ensuring that they made it to all classes, recreation, Bible, crafts, FOB (flat on back)in addition to the trips to a local bell shaped pool for a Hawaian Lua (sp) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , wild animal park, (where bears and monkeys happened to be mating, a story in itself). With the OD being on crutches this in itself was an amazing feat. And she managed all week with no complaints.

DS, he was just a camper, doing the boy thing, like most 11 year olds do. He was in another cabin with 3 boys his age and 2 counselors. I think the 4 young ones managed to keep the counselors quite busy.

YD.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> stayed in the cabin with me every night. Because she went as a pre-camper she would be turned over to a lady after breakfast who entertained and provided for during the day. Basically the same activities as the older children but on a slower time table.

YD ws the hit of the week. Every female camper there thought she was absoutely adorable. One fo the big things at camp is a measurment of how much mail a single camper gets. *chuckles* they had to give YD a bigger mailbox as hers was always overloaded.

Being camp photographer I did get to see the kids all during the day as I rode around to all acitivties taking candid, posed and group pictures. Ouch...I think I ended up with over 30 rolls developed. I did take my bike along as I had this job once before and the walking almst got the best of me. The bike sure made it a lot easier. Espically when it rained.

The 3rd night we had a HUGE storme which killed ALL the power and of course everyone had to go to bed early, and no one complained, until 11:30 PM when the power came back on and many campers had forgotten to turn off their lights, radios and other electrical items. *chuckles* But YD and I managed to sleep through that one and only heard about the stories.

After several nights with YD she began to once again ask questions about Mommy and Daddy. Questions that I of course cannot answer. But could offer up many hugs and lots of encouragement. She usually does this after spending time alone with her, almost as if she has to come to a place where she feels confortable talking or asking questions.

Friday evening their Mother arrives, (still looking good of course) to attend the have dinner, attend the talent show and pick the children up from camp. It was pleasent to sit at the same table and actually have dinner as a family. The first one in over a year too. It sure made YD's day. She was beamimg from ear to ear seeing the two of us at the same table.

And I guess that about sums us the last seven days of my life. Now it's time for a run to the laundry mat to wash some clothes.

Praying that all is well with each and every one of you. Fathers--hope all of you had a wonderful day. Mine was good, actually very good. I had all three children and got some nice gifts from them.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/29/04 11:52 AM
Hi all!

Leah: What I wanted to say is you may want to set some sort of deadline for him to get in line ,or you will evaluate your options w/o him.

Wallace: I am trying to end my IRS issue with debt with wife this month. Hopefully, moneys from her equity in the house will payoff debt. The IRs is no help at all.

Trusting Him: I may go camping with kid this weekend. Last time, we were suppose to go camping instead we stayed at the Holiday Inn. Camping is an adventure if you are not use to it.

Me: DC has too much to see in three days. Long drive but I survived.

Later.
Posted By: davepr Re: Tough Love - 06/29/04 08:26 PM
Hi Everyone,
just thought I would drop by and say hi to everyone. Too many posts to read since I have been gone, but hope everyone is doing well.

Take care,
Dave
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 06/29/04 08:42 PM
Dave
It's not fair, you doing a "drive thru" posting like that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> We've missed you. Hope things are going well for your recovery. Thanks for posting, and stop by for longer when you have more time!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 06/30/04 12:32 AM
Hi All,

Been busy with work and with the attorney concerning this IRS mess my exW left me with... so I apologize for not being able to post as often as I would like.

Petvet...

Are you still in D.C., or are you home now?

Did you go to the Smithsonian?

Your having IRS problems with your exW as well?

Boy... I'm asking a lot of questions... huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Leah...

I agree with what Petvet has stated as well as avondale.

Since this is the "Tough Love" thread... your going to have get this man to start showing you some "LOVE", and "RESPECT"... or you need to rethink your position which I can tell you are already doing.

I'm all for saving a marriage... just as long as the two people in the "M" are willing to work together on it. if they are not willing to do the work (and it is work at times)... then your just beating you head up against a wall and causing yourself and your children grief.

It's kind of like the yo-yo effect... one moment they are into the "M"... and the next moment... they are out and about doing everything they can to destroy it.

I as well as many others have gone through this yo-yo effect. It's a horrible way to live, and IMHO... it's not worth the effort most of the time to try to stay with it. My guess and opinion... is that about 90% of marriages fail when this is happening.

Keep praying... trust me... it will all expose itself in time... be it good or bad.

This is ""Tough Love", and if he is going to continue with what he is doing... I would show him the door and go into Plan B., if he doesn't show signs of wanting to work on the "M".

Did he ever show you his telephone records?


Trusting Him...

It sounds like you all had a very good time while camping. I'm happy to hear that you and your children had a great time.

I have a question for you.

Do you think that by having dinner with your former and with all your children... that there might be a possibility of you and your former possibly getting back together someday soon? It sounds like you and your former were thinking about what you both were missing... each other!

How were you feeling... being together as a Family again?

avondale...

Anything new on your end?

What do you have planned for the 4th of July weekend?

You have been holding up pretty good so far... what do you think your "H's" next move will be?

Do you have another time set up to meet?

Can you believe that Dave just blew in and out of here just like that without giving us the low down? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Dave...

It's good to hear from you my friend... how is everything going?

You have to give us an update... so we know everything is still going well... which I'm sure it is.

EC...

What's happening with the car issue?

Did your YD and OD come out and visit?

Give us an update when you get a chance.

Me...

Aside from the IRS issue... myself and my family are doing well.

My G/F has been losing quite a bit of business with her business. Mostly because many of her clients are shutting their businesses down. She hasn't been in the best of moods lately because of it... which I can understand. She is talking about closing her business down as well and taking a 40hr. a week job.
I asked her to think real hard on that one... and not make any knee jerk moves as of yet... so we will see what she decides.

We helped her Mother move this weekend into a new place... so hopefully that will be it for moving for awhile. I'm getting too old to be playing moving man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well I hope everyone has a great day today and tomorrow.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 06/30/04 03:36 AM
Hi Everyone,

Maybe I'll do a drive by post like davepr!

D. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 06/30/04 04:56 AM
Wallace

Please expound on your insight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> cause you might be seeing something that I am missing. I know the effects of negative thinking and I could be guilty of that.

Good Things...

To my knowledge she is still in IC.

It's possible that I would like to think that you would honor your commitment to your family and children may be one way of her saying that she is missing it. I just assumed it was her way of getting what she wanted, a week without the children and time with her BF.

I find it hard to see it as a family when I live in one place and she in another.

We have spent more time together because of the children in the past weeks than we have in the last year or so.

How did I feel?

As I watched her and thought about our history I know that I still have feelings for her. I know that if she should show a hint of remorse and contriteness and her BF disappeared from the picture I would definately consider it.

Someday soon? *chuckles*

A Pastor and I today were talking today and he reminded me of Hosea. I asked of it would be appropriate for me to buy "her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer of barley, and an half homer of barley:" He just laughed and said that the BF would be getting the better end of that deal.

But like Hosea, I know if she begins to let God work in her life that He will provide me the grace and ability to forgive.

So...I still lift up prayers for her that she will draw closer to God.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 06/30/04 11:22 AM
Hi all!

Dave & WGTT: It's the right, driving by a taking off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace: Yes, I am back. I want to go to the beach this weekend. July 4th is my favorite holiday. Yes, I have IRS issues that I expect to be resolve within the month.

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 07/01/04 12:41 AM
Hi All,

The girls and I are visiting with my sister right now. It's always great to be with her. She also happens to live at the beach which is a definite plus. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

My H has been wonderful this past week, kind and attentive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But here's the but.... he has not given me the phone bills yet. Is this just a huge diversion???

Anyhow, I'm enjoying the reprieve. It's been so nice not dealing with a ton of conflict. But I can't help wonder if that is the motive behind his kindness, to distract me from my "pursuit" of truth. I find it hard to ask about the phone bills when he's being decent for the first time in so long. What do you all think?

Thanks and hope you all have a good week.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/01/04 09:39 PM
Wow, two “drive by” posts in a row....it’s great to hear from old friends but I sure wish they’d say a little bit more!

Petvet & Wallace - Why are y’all still having IRS issues? Didn’t you file taxes separately once you were separated? Is there something I should be on the lookout for in my own situation? I don’t want to be having to deal with tax junk down the road!

EC - Please give us a report about your daughter’s visit! Remember, we've been waiting for them to visit almost as long as you have!

Trusting - I didn’t read your post the same way that Wallace did. However, all I could think of was “how strained it would be for me to sit at a table with my H AND KIDS and act like nothing has happened”. I mean, it’s one thing to be able to talk to him civilly and in adult manner about dividing property; it’s a whole other thing to be a family while he’s unrepentant. Maybe it’s easier for you cuz your children are so much younger...what do you think? Or was it difficult and you just handled it extremely well?

Leah - I hate to say this, and was waiting for the guys to respond first. But they haven’t, so I’ll go ahead. I have a bad feeling about the fact that your H hasn’t provided those records yet. And also because he’s acting nice. Is it possible for you to separate those two facts and deal with them one at a time? I assume you’ve reminded him of the records and his promise to show them. Could this be a turning point for you - if he doesn’t follow through with his promise to show them, then <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> (gulp) you separate? Keep us posted!

Me - nothing new except my haircut! I've been told it makes me look 10 years younger! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> yippee!

WGTT, DavePR, RMA, Mommax8, everyone else, Have a great 4th of July! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ July 01, 2004, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/02/04 01:51 AM
Hi All,

I have had a very busy week with work and my attorney. It just never ends!

Trusting Him...

I don't think your thinking negatively and not seeing things for what they are, concerning your former... I'm going out on a limb here and I'm saying that there appears to be a little more going on here IMO based on this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by Trusting Him:

Friday evening their Mother arrives, (still looking good of course) to attend the have dinner, attend the talent show and pick the children up from camp. It was pleasent to sit at the same table and actually have dinner as a family. The first one in over a year too. It sure made YD's day. She was beamimg from ear to ear seeing the two of us at the same table.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It may have been the first time in over a year... but unless your former is dead to the whole world... and because of your history... it just struck me... like she may have felt the same way you did.

IMHO... you don't sit and have an enjoyable dinner with your former for any period of time unless your trying to capture the moment of what you have been missing... not only you, but her as well.

It's what I felt after reading your statement. It had nothing to do with the way you worded your statement... it was just what came into my heart at the time that I read it.

I'm not trying to see this through rose colored glasses... but, it just struck me, after reading that... that she was enjoying this time as much as you were. Correct me if I'm wrong and I will stand corrected... but you just cannot throw away and erase the moments that you and her, as well as your whole family away... just like that. It just does not happen... no matter how hard you she may try to erase those memories... it just doesn't happen.

Let me know if I'm way off base on this one.

Leah...

Glad to hear that your having a good time... it always helps to get away and clear the head.

I'm going to give you my take on your situation... and unfortunately it's not going to be through rose colored glasses.

I agree with what avondale has stated. IMHO... you are in fact going through the yo-yo effect. I myself lived it for many years without even realizing it... but in fact I was.

I think that in fact it is a diversion that your "H" is setting up here. Oh, I'm sure he is being nice as pie, but the fact of the matter is, he didn't show you his telephone bill... and I'll bet he hasn't brought it to your attention either.

This is like an old shell game that the hustlers still do to this day... and people... still fall for it... that's the sad part.

I wouldn't bring up seeing the phone bills again... until he kicks back in again... and if history on these type of people play out... he will kick in again... it's just a matter of time.

Keep looking... I feel that you will unfortunately find what you are looking for.

avondale...

So you got your hair cut, and look 10 years younger?

Good for you! Now... your going to have to beat the guys away from you now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Speaking of which... I need to get a haircut too! But, I got too much going on at the moment so it will have to wait. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

To answer your question about the IRS... even though I was legally seperated from my now exW. We were in the process of a reconciliation in the first part of 2002 (It was like the tenth time, until I finally went through with the actual "D". Pay close attention to that last statment Leah... I went through what you are going through for almost 23 years).

Well I filed jointly with my exW because we were suppose to be getting back together, and I didn't want to make waves by filing seperately. There was only one problem... I claimed all of my income... and she lied about all of her earnings. She had about 18 jobs (and I'm not kidding) in one year. I thought she incorporated all of her W2's out of her 18 jobs.

Well... she didn't!

She left out three of the most highest paying jobs she had on her tax return. She also worked at these jobs the longest... which was maybe 8 weeks maximum for the longest running job. It didn't even occur to me that she would lie about that as well... so now they are coming after me... because the IRS knows she is a deadbeat. They always go after the one with the deepest pockets. Which in so many words... the IRS admitted to me, after having a 3 hour conversation with about 4 different agents.

What it boils down to... is a WS will lie about everything and anything... it doesn't matter who they are dealing with. It just boils down to whatever will make them happy and to hell with everyone else... and it doesn't get any better than that.

Petvet...

Glad to hear that your wrapping up on your IRS issues.

Did you have to bring in an attorney, or did you go Pro Se?

WGTT...

O.K., I'm calling foul now. Two drive-bys in what... a week?

I'm sure your doing well... otherwise it would of been more than a drive-by.

You know... we have actually had quite a few recoveries on this thread.

Keep up the good work and when you get time... let us know how you are doing... which I'm sure is well.

EC...

Hope you are doing well... let us know when you get time.

Hope everyone has a great day and a better tomorrow.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 07/02/04 08:20 PM
WAllACE POSTED
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WGTT...

O.K., I'm calling foul now. Two drive-bys in what... a week?

I'm sure your doing well... otherwise it would of been more than a drive-by.

You know... we have actually had quite a few recoveries on this thread.

Keep up the good work and when you get time... let us know how you are doing... which I'm sure is well.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wallace - look at my sig line <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Things are rocky at home. For the most part I am good. The growth from this whole ordeal has been good for me. I am recovering, the jury is still out on my husband.

There is sooo much to work through, I've started a new career that is very demanding, but rewarding, and dealing with 2 teens at home ( and a 22 YO who's here for the summer).

I get my first commission this week and going to take the kids to a Braves game (thier choice) & spend the night in Atlanta.

My "free" time is spent on a sailing race crew. Actually it's the highlight of my week.

Hello to everyone!!! I skim here now and then to try to see what's going on.

-----------------------------------------------
On another topic - Has anyone seen the movie Notebook ???? It was sooooo touching. I cried a lot ( I don't usually do that in movies!!!) It's a love story - the contrast between what was portrayed and what I have is a deep canyon. All
guys should go see this - it's what women want. I told that to both me sons and they said they weren't going to see a chick flick. I know you MB guys are different (well you are)

HAPPY 4TH OF JULY HOLIDAY WEEKEND

Ironic huh - we are celebrating FREEDOM

d.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/02/04 11:50 PM
WGTT - It was great to hear from you! Ok, I’ll bite: Define “rocky at home”. I am sure it’s not a walk in the park, and I know you weren’t expecting it to be easy. But just how difficult is it? Is it more detachment/emotional stuff or pressures dealing with the business y’all had, or family stuff, or something else altogether? Where is your H and his relationship with the Lord? BTW, I’ve kind of looked for you around in other forums (recovery) but didn’t see you at all. So we’re especially honored that you’ve posted here again!

Congrats on your commission. It’s great to see you’re still racing. Keep in touch, please!
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 07/04/04 04:33 AM
Avondale,

At first things were rocky because we had so much that we were dealing with, but we were doing it together. We talked about things, were affectionate, it was headed in the right direction.

Each time he goes back to the area, he comes back more closed up. I know something is not right but not sure exactly what. Back to drugging and drinking at times? He denies it. I get the feeling that guilt and shame play a part. He 's like Jonah and the whale, running from God.

I gave him a letter recently reminding him of what I needed to feel safe to rebuild our marriage, and what he needed to do before moving home. He won't go to AA, so at best he's a dry drunk. He did say he would counsel with Steve Harley but hasn't called to schedule an appointment.

He will get another letter soon, saying that I am guarding my heart, because he didn't do the things to make me feel safe. But when he is ready to do those things, I will change my mind.

There may be another intervention of sorts - very low key, but a come to Jesus session. The man who did the orginal intervention and our deacon (& me).

Our oldest son is looking like he has a drinking problem too, so will need to revisit alanon from mult - perspectives.

Through all of this I am at peace with who I am and what I've done (and not done) and feel surprisingly good. My serenity is very important.

Real estate is good, but will take a while to be consistently good.

I am very tired & need to go to bed, but will come back and post the story about my neighbors house. I could kick myself, and no doubt that's what i am doing mentally to myself.

D.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 07/06/04 03:32 AM
Leah2be

Phone bills.....that sure brings back memories.

You should see the notation my former put on her account after I obtained copies.

*****DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES GIVE OUT ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THIS ACCOUNT TO TRUSTING HIM. HE IS NO LONGER AN AUTHORIZED USER ON THIS ACCOUNT AND HE IS NOT TO RECEIVE ANY INFORMATION ABOUT THIS ACCOUNT VIA PHONE, FAX OR IN PERSON*****

And to explain that comment she says that she sees me having access to her account as a control issue. Not to mention that the information there should be considered private and that I shoud just trust her.

This of course was after the discovery of the first OM in her life. Funny...several months later another lady and I are reviewing her husbands cell phone records and there shure were a bunch of calls from my former to him. My formers side of it...We are just friends.

I think others have already stated that the up's and down's associated with the fear of there being someone else. And to have that fear confirmed only opens up another book that our mates have to conjure up lies about to justify their actions.

I admire your efforts at maintaining your composure during these trying times. It is extremely hard on one's physical self and emotions to put up with this and you have done well.

I guess in the end it is only you who can make the final decision. I can honestly say that if I had to go back and do all this over again I would have been the one to file for a legal seperation and would have been a bit more firm in what I expected. As it was...I was at times being more of a doormat for her and that allowed things to drag on and on.

Petvet

I love camping, the Holiday Inn type and the woods type. This camp is somewhat primative but id does have electricity and a mess hall for cooking.

The kids and I prefer our camping with just a tent adn a fire. All of them have gotten quite good at building fires and cooking over them. It is a time that we all enjoy.

I hope you had a wonderful holiday and that the IRS problems will soon be resolved.

Avondale

New haircut and 10 years younger! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Maybe I need a haircut. Doubt it would make ne look 10 years younger though.

In response to your question. Yes it was strained for her and me. The children I think enjoyed it since it has been some time since they actually saw us together. But. . . they each still have their own hopes of us getting back together.

I guess what allows me to be civil and nice is that I would hate to stand before Christ one day and He ask me why I treated her in any other way than what He expected. Is it hard? YES...but it does get eaiser with time.

She and I both know what happened in our marriage but as it stands right now only one of us has accepted any of the responsibility for those problems. Yes...there is a part of me that could quite easily remind her or allow her actions to affect me but i try to be a better person than that.

Why? I still have to be an example for our children. *chuckles* And this long weekend did not help matters any for them. I had cleaned out my Bible and my drawers all the cards and letters my former had given me over the years and stuffed them all in a box to decide what I wanted to do with them.

I came in from doing the yard work and the children were in the midst of reading them all. *GASP* But it did not seem to really have any ill effects on them. The jest of their questions was that it sounded like Mommy loved me. They all know that their Mom has accused me of lying to her and them about many things but their question was, Daddy...in all these cards and letters Mommy says that she loves you. Was she telling the truth then or is she lying now?

Ouch! How do you answer that?

Wallace

I have NO IDEA what she thinks anymore and at times I do feel that she is dead to the world. But it could just be my presence that makes her feel that way.

I would like to think that she enjoyed it as we had many pleasent times. In my opinion the good times far outweighed the bad and after reading all her letters and cards again that was proved again. Unless of course she was not telling the truth then. I think "Forever Hers" answered a post many months ago that summed up where she was and simply put it was that she felt she did not deserve the love that I was showing her and was consumed by guilt. *confused* Only she knows

I hope you had a wonderful Holiday weekend, with plenty of time for rest and relaxation.


WillGetThruThis

Good to hear about you! I pray the new career goes well. Braves game? If my boss has her way I'll soon be able to look out an office window and watch the game (with binoculars of course). She wants me to move to the BIG city.

Keep your hopes high and let God work in you and your husband. We both know that He has a better plan that you and I but it is hard at times waiting on Him to complete His work in us and our mates.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Through all of this I am at peace with who I am and what I've done (and not done) and feel surprisingly good. My serenity is very important. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is good and it is also a place that you do not get to alone. I pray that you keep this attitude.

I'll add all of you to my prayer list. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Notebook? I read the book and "The Wedding". I would love to go see it but I would rather not go alone....and I would probably look rather funny taking a man to this type movie. *chuckles*


Everyone Else

Hope all had a wonderful Holiday weekend.

Please keep posting as your progress and stories always keep me heading in the right direction.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/06/04 04:16 AM
Hi All,

It's been a long time, so I promise not to do a driveby, since I see how much you hate them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Feel free to ask me any questions in case I miss something. I'll be checking in periodically, I missed you guys. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

First let me apologize and explain why I left so suddenly. It appeared that once I returned from the Bahamas, A friend quoted many things that they could have only known from here. So, I decided to step back and allow the Lord to search my heart, and to heal me without me getting in the way.

It's been a long year, first of all in late September, 2003 my mom became very ill and I was bi-coastal until she passed away in November. After that it pretty much took until now for my brother and I to settle her issues and in the middle of all this, I was still selling homes and going to school like a mad woman. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

The earlier part of this year I started to receive calls from bill collectors and other uninvited types, so I filed for divorce after much prayer and soul searching. After discussing it with my pastor and putting everything in its proper perspective, I felt fine with my decision and that I had to do what comes natural first.

My H and I have still had very little contact other than a few sentences in a letter that I initiated and he responded. We still have not seen each other nor do I care to. We were approaching five years and at that time if there was no divorce, he would be entitled to my pension and alimony since I make more that he does. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

After such a trying year, I just returned from a two week cruise around Hawaii. I deserved that didn't I?

I've only been able to catch up on a few pages of posts and still reading.

Avondale

I hope you're still keeping the guys in line. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace

I have no comment until I continue reading. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet You will have to share your secret!

Everyone Else

Hope all is well, To those I know and those I don't.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/06/04 12:26 PM
Relady - You’d better NOT do a drive by! It’s great to read your post. I had sent you an email when we didn’t hear from you, but I’m not sure if you ever got it. Does it bother you that someone you knew made the connection with what you wrote here, or was it what they said that was cause for you to reexamine your heart? I’m sorry your mom passed away - you know we all would have been here for you, if needed. My mom died 3 years ago - that was the start of my life (as I knew it) changing forever. I know you hated the thought of divorce so I’m sure that was a difficult decision. Real estate sales must be good if you went to Hawaii, and yes, you deserve it. Again, I’m glad you’re back. Keeping the guys in line is difficult, but I have had some help. Let me introduce you to “ Trusting Him ” and “ Leah2be ” who have joined us on Petvet’s thread here. I think you already knew “ WillGetThruThis ”, but if not, she’s here too. You will get their stories as you catch up on your Tough Love reading!

Trusting - I think it’s great that your kids found that box which had all your cards, etc. There might never have been an opportunity for you to show them yourself, and God provided that for them to see! I’m sure that one day, your kids will see the truth about their mom.


EC - I’m still waiting for a report from you about your daughter’s visit!

Gotta go, have a great week, everyone <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 07/07/04 02:30 AM
Hello Everyone,

It's great to hear from WGTT and RELADY. Even though I wasn't posting when relady was, I read her story and was sad to see her suddenly go away. I'm glad you've posted again. WGTT, I can very much relate to the ongoing recovery issues. It sure isn't easy but it's wonderful that you've been able to maintain your peace in the midst of such trials.

Maintaining peace... this is something I'm ever praying and striving for. You all have posted such helpful advice and encouragement. AVONDALE, PETVET, WALLACE, TRUSTING HIM, and EC... I appreciate all that you all share with me, even if it's not always happy thoughts. THANK YOU for being friends enough to SPEAK THE TRUTH even when it's not easy. Please continue to shoot straight with me, I know I need it.

There's more I want to write but my H just called to say he's headed home from work. I'm going to get his dinner re-heated and ready for him. So I'll post more tommorrow.


Hope you all have a good week!
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 07/07/04 04:03 AM
Hello everyone!

RELADY I wondered what happened to you! It's good to hear from you but sorry about the circumstances. You sound like you are in a pretty good place despite the circumstances. We all have situations, it's how we choose to deal with them that makes the difference.

I too am a "relady" now. One property has closed so I guess that's official.

YOU DESERVE HAWAII.

me UUUUGGGGGHHH. I know that I know that I know about my WH. I had asked God to reveal to me what I needed to know & He did. Just enough to know he's back to drugging and who knows what else while he is away from home on business trips.

Every morning I spend time in prayer & often write in a prayer journal. I intuitively knew when WH got into the crap - I got the feeling to intensley pray. His cell phone records confirm what I was feeling. Whoa. The exact day. (and probably time if i had recorded that)

Sooooooooooo, I would not consider our M in recovery. Probably need to change my sig line (AGAIN) I have an appointment with Steve and have lined up our deacon & the intervention guy. My plan is to require him to do all of the things in my orginal letter and then some, or else move out. I'll file for legal separation at that point, unless God yanks me in another direction. That he has done before!!!

For instance, last Sept, WH dropped me off at the Atlanta airport for me to fly home & I didn't even look back, because I was ready to call it quits. That evening in Church I heard God say to me " Call him and tell him you love him and want him to come home." WHAT !!!???!!! I literally fought with God - no way. It was like having the devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other!
In the end I was obedient.

trusting him thanks for your prayers and words of encouragement. I am trusting God for the restoration of my marriage, but will not live with the current situation. WH never repented & I believe the guilt and shame is really eating him. Partly, it's that Catholic school upbringing.

Leah - recovery issues are tough. I haven't read the lastest on your story but I remember when you first joined this board.

too everyone - blessings

D.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/07/04 11:14 AM
OK!OK! What's going on here with all the drive by's? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Is there a full moon?

Relady: I am happy that you have taken time to visit with us again. I am sorry to hear about your lost. You are a tough lady who's very focused. Go Girl!

WGTT: I am happy that you are with us again as well. It's sad to hear that you are still going through the stuff. You love the water like I do. I am going to start looking to find an investment property close to a beach before the summer ends. I love the beach.

Wallace: Yes, I am working through my attorney to resolve issues with ex. It should be resolve by the end of the month once and for all. The final cord will be cut. It will be Overrrrr!

Avondale: Did I hear something about a hair cut? WH better reconsider real soon because the clock is running real fast. You are beginning to look after yourself now. Hair cut? Sexy sexy sexy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Me: There are no secret formulas as far as my relationship with Buddy is concern. In all honesty (knocking on wood) and based on what I know today, she is the love of my life. She is tough and real smooth with alot of class. She is human with a few rough edges, but I value her like diamonds. I can definitely put her on my balance sheet. Don't start! There will be no wedding bells in this camp anytime soon. I'm going to take my time.

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/07/04 04:34 PM
Good Morning All,

Thank you for the welcome back!

Avondale

It was an acquaintance who was having marital problems and discovered this board through friends. I only see her occasionally to have a brief conversation. After the usually conversation openings, she asked me how did I like 'marriagebuilders' and does it help me. She didn't know for sure it was me until she saw the look on my face! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> It was something that was supposed to happen. After that a few other things began to happen such as a trusted friend used me as an 'object lesson' to a group of ladies at church.

All this added up to me allowing my relationship with God to become first again. By that, I mean for Him to become my best friend, my confidant, my supporter, etc. Now, I share my concerns with Him and know they won't be repeated or used against me.

It has been a wonderful year of growing in character, as well as emotionally. It has become so much easier.

How are you doing physically? I got to your posts where you had surgery.

WGTT

Hope things work out with you, I'm still trying to catch up on the posts.

Congratulations on becoming a 'relady'. It is truly the best career if you like people and have patience! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> One bit of advice, "Stay in touch with all your clients after closing" My business last year consisted of all 'referrals' because I was gone alot and I never lost a dime! And buy 'units' so your money works when you don't!!

Petvet

Hey! I purposely didn't make my post a drive-by! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And yes, there was a full moon last week!

It appears that you and 'buddy' have a great plan. I hope you're taking notes to share later.

L2B

Thank you for the welcome. My story hasn't changed much in the last year, I still have had virtually no contact with my H since the day he left. His loss! God is still here.

Wallace

Where are you? I promise I'm nicer now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hello, Everyone Else

relady

<small>[ July 07, 2004, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/07/04 04:36 PM
oops 3 times! Yikes!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ July 07, 2004, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/07/04 04:41 PM


<small>[ July 07, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/07/04 04:58 PM
Hi all,

This is going to be a kind of drive-by... because I'm at work and only have a few moments. I've been pretty busy still and it's my Son's B-day today... he is 25 yrs. old. Man, how time flies!

Leah...

We are happy to be of help... and I will speak for myself at this point. I will call any situation the way I see it (as you probably already know...LOL), be it good or bad.

Keep looking and staying aware... until you can either come up with the goods on him, or find peace of mind.

Relady...

Well hello stranger!

It's good to hear from you. I have missed your quick wit and humor, as well as all the good solid advice you have given me over time.

I'm sorry to hear about all that has happened... you really had to probably muster up all the stregnth you had to get past all of that. I hope things are settling down for you and evening out.

You went to "HAWAII" and didn't ask me to meet you over there? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> What's up with that! LOL/ j/k

I'm waiting for you to give me the business... just as soon as you get caught up with all the posts. This should be good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Stay in touch... and let us know how you are making out... it's good to see you back, but wish it were under better circumstances.

WGTT...

Sorry I didn't read you SIG line lately... I don't usually read them... unless someone is new to the thread... or I'm posting to another thread, or it gets pointed out to me that the SIG line has changed. It does sound like yours is going to change again though.

The WS never ceases to amaze me. Just when you think you have dialed into them... they change directions, and go and screw everything up... and then you have to almost start all over again.

I'm sorry to hear about the latest. Keep praying like you have, and let the Lord guide you through this time as well.

Trusting Him...

I finally had a little time to visit your website.

It's very touching, and I know you put your heart into it, as well as probably quite a bit of time.

Do you think your former has seen it?

Nice site though... keep working on it, and keep it up to date... It helped me rethink a number of things in my life as I read through what you had to say.

Petvet...

Count me in on Beach front property as well. I love the beach, as well as lakes, streams, waterfalls and the like.

I'm with you as well... no "M" for me for awhile either. I like being single again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

avondale...

Since you have had your hair done... how many guys have tried to make a pass at you? I'll bet quite a few... huh?

EC...

I know your out there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Let us know how your making out when you get a chance.

Well I hope everyone had a good holiday... it's back to work for me now.

Hope everyone has a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 07/07/04 06:16 PM
Trusting Him-

What is your website?


EVERYONE - FYI
DearPeggy.com announcements:

The Cover Story of the current issue of Newsweek magazine focuses on the increase in women having affairs. It's an 8-page article with illustrations if you want to pick up a copy. To read an excerpt from the article, go to: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5360418/site/newsweek

Next week (after the magazine is no longer on newsstands), it will be appropriate for me to post the entire article on my website - which I'll do. So check back after July 13 to read it.

I am quoted in the article, and the particular comments of mine that they used relate to “Online Affairs” and the study I did on that issue. (Actually, I conducted TWO surveys: one for those who had had an online affair and the other for those whose SPOUSES had had an online affair.) I have now completed an eBook with all the results of both surveys as well as the many "comments" submitted by the respondents.
You can read a brief overview (in html format) at:
http://www.dearpeggy.com/online.html
Or to read the longer sample (in pdf format), see "View Sample" at:
http://www.dearpeggy.com/shop/index.html (where it can also be purchased).

Also, I want to alert everyone that I'm leaving early Thursday morning for the SmartMarriages Conference in Dallas. I'll be making 2 presentations plus have a "Poster Session" and hosting table discussions on Affairs at the luncheons. So I won't be able to respond to emails or other contact until next week.

For more information about SmartMarriages (formally the Coalition for Marriage, Family and Couples Education - CMFCE) you might read this week's Question of the Week (where I say more about it at the end of my response)
http://www.dearpeggy.com/question.html
or go to the page that always posted on my website:
http://www.dearpeggy.com/seminars.html
or go directly to the SmartMarriages website:
http://www.smartmarriages.com/


More later,

D.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/07/04 07:54 PM
Wow, this is like family reunion week, isn't it? It is great that some of you are posting again; we're all at stages that are different but can still learn from each other in many ways.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wallace said: Since you have had your hair done... how many guys have tried to make a pass at you? I'll bet quite a few... huh?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, none, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> but I did giggle when I read that! I still wear my wedding & engagement rings, and make a concerted effort to not do or say ANYTHING that can be misconstrued to make myself appear available. But now I'm thinking it's a good thing I gained weight from cancer surgery, cuz otherwise I'd be a knockout! LOL Meanwhile, a friend's daughter told me I "look hot". Imagine that! I cannot WAIT for hubby to set up the next meeting so I can impress him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> By the way, who would have thought that a haircut would have given my battered self-esteem such a boost?!?

Petvet - Count me in on the beach property. Maybe we should start a limited partnership here for those of us from this thread to buy a house? If I ever get divorced, I'll then know what my financial status is, so I can plan better.

Hope everyone stays cool....it's been in the upper 90s here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/08/04 07:14 PM
Hi all,

WGTT...

Thanks for the links! I'm proud of you for being such an advocate for what is really going on in a vast amount of marriages these days.

I haven't had a chance to look at the links you posted yet... but I knew that in the last several years, the WS has been for the most part... the woman/wife. Don't ask me why... maybe it's something in the air.

avondale...

You want me to believe that not one person made a pass at you yet... and since when did a wedding ring top someone from making a move on someone? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You go girl! Your heading in the right direction. Take care of yourself... When your feeling good... your also looking good as well.

Me...

Well my son had a nice B-day.

All of my kids and my G/F went out to dinner and then had B-day cake and ice cream. It was very enjoyable having all my kids there... and we all had a great time.

Well I hope everyone's day is going well.

Back to work!

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 07/08/04 08:46 PM
Hello Everyone,

Hope you are all enjoying a good week. Time is flying fast for me. Summer is a great time with the girls, lots of fun and activity. Still no phone bills...but I'm okay with that for now. Just giving it all back to God and asking Him daily to reveal truth.

I'm confident that in time truth will come out. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying this time of decency with H. It very well could be the yo-yo effect that a couple of you wrote about. I figure either way, his behavior will reveal truth in time.

WALLACE,

Thanks for the advice on letting go of the phone bill thing until the tide turns again. With time and prayers, that is what felt right to me too.

So you did this for 23 years! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> We've been married 16 years but the severe misbehaviors didn't start until 5 1/2 years ago. But there was an EA ten years ago with his secretary. It was all minimized and swept under the rug at the time. I didn't really see it for all that it probably was until later when all the lies and deceptions began.

I'm a very different woman today than I was then. I've learned so much and have become much stronger because of all that has transpired with H. I continue to strive to find the balance of tough love. I hope that this doesn't continue for 23 years. How I pray that in time it will be resolved one way or the other.

I hope you and your girlfriend are doing well. You haven't mentioned her much anymore. Hope we didn't scare off your thoughts on the subject. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> We just want to see you happy!

PETVET,

I have let H's know I would have to "evaluate my options" a time or two before. When it comes to the point when he thinks I might call it quits, he always turns around and gets his act together quick. He knows how desperately I want to make this marriage work and he seems to know just how much he needs to do to keep me here.

What I'm looking for now is consistency on his part. I truly do not wish to be stupid about this relationship and I can only continue it if I can be at peace. Also, I want what is best for the girls most of all. So that is what my points of evaluation are.

Thanks for your comments and help. I'm so glad you have Buddy. That is an encouragement to me, as when I first was drawn to this thread, I hurt for you and your loss. Some of it just sounded so familiar and I wanted you to find that "happy ending". It helps to see others who have survived all the pain of a hurtful marriage and who have gone on to find happiness on the other side.

Real Estate at the beach sounds nice! We were just there last week and so enjoyed it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />


TRUSTING HIM,

Reading what you wrote about the statement your former had written on her bills was like a step back into the past. The same thing happened to me five years ago when I was attempting to discover if his adultery was continuing. I was frantically trying to figure things out and there were continuous road blocks, deceptions and lies. Not a happy time.

I was surprised to read that you would separate quicker given what you know now. It seems you so want your marriage back that I didn't think you would have ended it given the chance again. There are times when I look back at the past five years that I wish I had just ended it a long time ago when things were much more blatant. But I just wasn't ready at the time. Every time I prayed about it, it would seem I was put on hold. I don't know if thats because it just wasn't the right time yet or if that was because we really are meant to be together. Only God knows and I'm going to continue to commit it all to Him. He alone can be my strength and peace through it all.

I pray for you that either God would work a miracle in your former's life or that he would give you total peace about that chapter of your life being over. I don't think there could be anything more difficult to accept. Facing my H's feelings or lack thereof for me has been a monumental task that I couldn't do apart from God's love. It's knowing He's there no matter what that keeps me going. Keep looking up!

AVONDALE,

In answer to your question about reminders to him, yes, I reminded him twice in the beginning. I was seriously considering what you wrote two weeks ago when this whole phone thing came about. But with time I decided to go the other way. What I envisioned was him giving me the phone bills but then me being even more confused about what to do with them. Another words, there would be a big grey phone bill sitting in front of me, with no real answers.

At one point, I looked at his phone and there were a couple of "unknown callers". When I asked who those callers were, he quickly named three different clients and said their company phone registers unknown caller for some reason. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> So that type of thing would probably be all over the phone bill.

In the past it's proven just about fruitless because he often covers ground quickly if he knows there is the possibility I'll look. One time there was just a monthly total. When I asked where the detailed billing was, he just shrugged and said he didn't have a clue, must be the secretary filed it away somewhere. Another time all incoming calls were listed as that, rather than with an actual number.


So in the end, it's like chasing rabbits. I go down many trails but end up empty handed with more questions than when I started. That is why I decided to just give it all back to God again and wait for Him to do something concrete. He's a much better detective than me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I think I just waste a lot of energy and time when I try to play detective with H. He's far too smart and creative in his efforts. God's the only one who can keep up with him. So H's all His.

I wish I could see a picture of your haircut. It must be quite the thing!! I'm always looking for a good style. I sure would love to trim 10 years off and have a good ole boost of self confidence. I'm really glad for you and can't wait to hear about your H's reaction. That will be fun. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


EC,

Hope you are doing well. Hopefully you've been busy having fun with your daughters. It seems that you've been doing better and better each time you write. It seems that you really have got past the worst of it. I'm glad for you. Take care and write when you can.

WGTT,

When you wrote about God changing your direction, I had to smile. He has done the same with me several times. It was really pretty amazing. One time I was returning from talking to the attorney who was trying to convince me to file. I cried and prayed all the way home for God to direct me. I was ready to go ahead and file unless God stopped me. When I got home, I found a letter in my mailbox from a friend of my sister whom I hadn't seen or talked with for 15 years. (She is living on the other side of the country.) Any how this letter was a long letter of encouragement to continue to commit the marriage to God, complete with personal testimony and verse after verse.

This did not happen just once. God seems to give me the message of extending love and grace to my H, even when I'm so ready for it to end.

I will pray for you as you have once again had to return to square one. My heart goes out to you. I know how difficult it is. Isn't it good to know that God is still there, ever faithful and ever present. He will see you through.

RELADY,

It sounds as if you have been through much. I'm so sorry for the loss of your mother. God has entrusted much to you. You seem to be a woman of great strength. Keep looking to God. He will bless and guide you!

HELLO to anyone else I might have missed. Hope you all enjoy a happy weekend!
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/09/04 09:42 PM
Hi All,

Glad to see everyone, Wallace, Petvet, Avondale, WGTT, Trusting Him, Relady, Davepr, Leah and anyone else I missed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Lots of things going on I see, I'll have to post later...

YD didn't come, she pushed the visit date back further, but she'll come sometime in the future.......

Me: I haven't been doing much but living life.

See Ya later.......Have a great weekend
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 07/11/04 09:03 PM
WillGetThruThis

Jehovah Rophe - For I am Jehovah who heals

Simply a place that started out as a place for me to write and attempt to maintain some sense of order in my life.

As time has progressed and the proces of forgiveness has set it I have slacked up there as I usually just expressed myself or vented there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Your words hit home. Without repentenance and a turning from their old ways there is no chance of receovery. The old has to pass away and a new person emerge. I personally believe that without repenting, forgiving, becoming contrite and showing remorse that a marraige is doomed for failure. (something like that, probably did not come out right)


Leah2be

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I was surprised to read that you would separate quicker given what you know now. It seems you so want your marriage back that I didn't think you would have ended it given the chance again. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Although the words are very true I think WillGetThruThis pretty much summed it up with these words;

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WH never repented & I believe the guilt and shame is really eating him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My former never showed one ounce of repentance or remorse and even today still believes that all of our marital problems are because of me. I do believe that the guilt and shame is really eating at her but rather than own up to our 17 years together she would rather find happiness in a new relationship.

I would only begin the process of seperation earlier if I had to do it over again. I fell to the concept of instant forgiveness and I believe it allowed her to believe that I was a doormat. A person who would do anything to save the marriage and even put up with the lies and deception. But. . . like they say, that is hind sight.

Today I am just trying to prepare myself for the possibility of having the children with me one day. All three tell me quite regualry that if Mom should marrie this guy she is dating now they will not stay in the same house with him.

I think He is leaning toward the total peace about that chapter of my life. I had the children last night as the former had planned a suprise birthday party for her BF that was going to run into the wee hours of the morning.

Today our daughter went forward at Chruch to tell all she wanted to be Baptised <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> , and of course the parents stood with her as the congergation greeted her afterwards. So. . . there were the 5 of us at the front of the Church, 4 beaming sparkling smiles and 1 somewhat hardened Mother. Even for something like this.


Wallace

I think Avondale may be holding a bit back. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> No one made a pass at her!

Glad to hear the B-day went well and you had a good tiem with the kids. It is great to get them all together.

Me:

Just going on with life. Had a brithday recently and it was good. Several of the people in the DivorceCare class I help with took me out to dinner and of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> me by singing Happy Birthday in the middle of the resturant.

The children took me to see "King Arthur" for my brthday. It was a pretty good movie. Me and the 2 olders ones enjoyed it while the YD took a much deserved nap.

My former called that day with her usual cheerful words, "Happy Birthday, today is your birthday isn't it?" Like she has forgotten so soon. I personally would rather have nothing or just the Happy Birthday part but to each their own.

Other than that life goes on.

Hope all have had a great weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/12/04 08:01 PM
Hi all,

Hope everyone had a good weekend. Mine started out real rough, but then started to level out towards the end... but I will get back to that later.

EC...

I'm sorry to hear that your YD didn't come out.

What happened?

I know you were really looking forward to seeing her this summer. Is there still any possibility of that still happening?

Hang in there... you sound like your still in good spirits... keep your head up, and keep doing what your doing.

Trusting Him...

A belated "Happy Birthday" to you. Glad to hear that you had a good time.

I agree with you as far as avondale holding out on us... I think there had to be at least 5 or more gentlemen make a pass at her.

I'll bet that felt kind of awkward having your former at Church while smiling the whole time. I haven't seen, nor spoken to my exW for over 2-1/2 years... so thankfully I have been spared that kind of situation.

Me...

I had another episode concerning "marriage" again with my G/F this weekend. We just about decided to call it a day it got so intense.

She is acusing me of not wanting to get "M", when she in fact is the one that throws the roadblocks in the way. When she does... and I agree with her that her concerns are legit... and we should wait... she gets upset, and then says that I have no intention of ever wanting to get "M".

I finally stated that we have gone over this way to much... and if it's brought up again within this year... I'm going to call off the "M", and we can just date if she still wants to.

Add this and the IRS and all their wonderfulness, and the stack of papers that I'm still filling out... it was just one of those weekends that I could have done without.

Well I hope everyone has a great day and a great week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/12/04 08:53 PM
EC - Let me echo Wallace’s regret that your YD didn’t come to see you. I know that has to be a disappointment. What have you been doing in the meantime?

Leah - Good for you, for letting God be the detective. That’s a moniker you don’t often hear, isn’t it? Although He is a protector, so I guess it’s a similar title.

Relady - Thanks for the explanation about what’s happened with you. Are you still in the same church? I hope they’ve stood with you through your stuff! To answer your question to me- physically I’m doing pretty good. No more kids for me, but at age 47 with my youngest child being 24, it’s a non-issue, LOL. I have gained some weight (which I didn’t want) but part of that was from the “why bother” attitude I had in the 3 weeks prior to surgery, and then 6 weeks of limited walking post-surgery. We’ve missed you!

Trusting - You have A LOT of class, standing in front of people yet still able to smile with your former wife. I admire that. It’s still difficult for me to imagine you guys in the same church, though. I’m glad I don’t have to walk through that. Do you think your former would create problems if the kids wanted to live with you if she remarries?

WGTT - I hadn’t been to Dear Peggy in a long while. I’ll have to look at Newsweek magazine this week, to see the article there too. Have you had that intervention yet which you mentioned? Let us know how it goes, and how we can support you.

Wallace - Are you officially (or even unofficially) engaged? The reason I ask is what you wrote: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm going to call off the "M", and we can just date if she still wants to </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Reading that, it implies you have definite plans, no matter how far in the future they might be, and are not just dating. Forgive me if we’ve already been over this, it’s just that I thought you were “just dating” already, with POSSIBLE plans for marriage when all kids were out of the house. In my mind there's a difference, and I wonder if your G/F thinks so too, hence the communication problems <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 07/13/04 11:49 AM
Hello Everyone,

Hope your all doing well and enjoying a good week.
I'm afraid I haven't been the best. I feel like such a failure. I have not been able to let the phone bill thing go like I should.

Each day that goes by that he doesn't bring the phone bills home, the harder it is. I finally brought it up again on Sunday night. He didn't bring them home again yesterday. I got upset and felt like he just didn't care.

Now he's getting them. He called to say he made copies of the "stupid phone bills" He's doing it but he's angry about it. He feels I'm trying to control him, when I feel I'm just asking for some reassurance that he's being faithful. QUESTION FOR THE MEN... Would you feel your wife was trying to control you if she asked for proof that youré being faithful???

I guess I'm still trying to go both ways... give it to God but then still wanting him to be accountable. CAN YOU DO OR HAVE BOTH??

Sorry this is a "downer" I'm just feeling pretty defeated right now.


EC

So sorry your daughter did not come for a visit. I hope that can still happen later this summer. You sound good despite the disappointment. Hope everything else in life is well.

TRUSTING HIM,

I very much understand the concept of forgiving too quickly. I'm afraid I messed up on that one too. I might still be messing up on that one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I believe we're always called to forgive but we don't have to choose to accept someone's bad behavior or even choose to continue the relationship. I think there should be forgiveness but there should also be consequences for peoples choices. Does that make sense??

It's hard to imagine that your wife has shown no remorse at all. That would be infuriating!! Although my H has not truly repented before God, he has shown some remorse towards me. He has admitted how wrong he was for the choices he made. He has told me that although I contributed to the break down of the marriage, he takes total responsibility for having the affair. He has also said how very sorry he is for hurting me. So that does mean something, although it loses quite a bit of its meaning when the behavior is repeated.

You seem to be so strong... to stand in front of the church with your ex-wife. That would be so hard. I admire your positive attitude and determination to move forward with God.

Happy Belated Birthday!!! It's great that you have a good support group at your church. I'm sure that's a great help for you. Keep looking up!

WALLACE,

I'm sorry you had a bad weekend. That doesn't sound like much fun. I sure do hope you can iron out the point of "M" conflict with your girlfriend. I thought AVONDALE brought up a good point about the engagement thing. Hopefully, with some good communication about that things could be worked out. I hope you have a better week than weekend.

AVONDALE,

Has your husband seen the "new" you yet? Thanks for the kind words of encouragement. As I've already written, I'm afraid I haven't done such a great job of continuing to "give it all to God". I seem to do good for awhile then I find myself drifting back to wanting him to be accountable to me. He interprets this as control and becomes angry and defensive. Will I ever break away from this vicious cycle??

Hi to PETVET, WGTT, RELADY and others who I wrote to in my last post. Hope you're all doing well.

Thanks for listening to my "woes". I'm sure in time I'll put this thing in proper perspective. I'm just tired and frustrated at this point. But there is always a new tomorrow and there is always hope in God. I just need to remind myself of that.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/13/04 12:22 PM
Hi all!

EC: I'm sorry to hear about your YD. Try to reschedule another visit if she wants. I know it must have been disappointing.

Leahtobe: Keep in mind that your H put himself in this position where someone has to watch over his shoulders.

Wallace: What can I say! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Avondale: 47! Sweetheart, fine tune the engine and go for it. Kido, you are in the prime of your life. Show what you got! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Trusting Him: You are on the right track it sounds to me.

Me: Catching one of EC's statements, I'm just living life.

Later.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 07/13/04 01:41 PM
Leah2b

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">QUESTION FOR THE MEN... Would you feel your wife was trying to control you if she asked for proof that youré being faithful???</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can only answer from where I stand.

My formers fear stemmed from my inability to manage our finances in a way that ensured she could trust me. That stemmed from my procrastination, my inability to tell her and the children no, me having no financial discipline at all and a 10k cut in pay several years ago which put us on the brink of bankruptcy.

To remove those fears I put our checkbook on the kitchen counter, told her that if she had any questions at all about any checks that were written to simply ask and I would answer. I attended financial counseling with 2 men and made myself accountable to them and my former for everything that was spent.


Why?

God convicted me of the weak areas in my life, of how I had managed the small things that He had entrusted me with, how I had failed to love my former just as Christ loved the Church. The least I could do was repent, show remorse and contriteness and attempt restitution and put people or principals in place to ensure that I did not fail in those areas again.

But when all of this stuff with the OM popped up.

I know that you will not understand this but I see you asking for access to my cell phone account and call detail as a control issue. That is my phone and my voice mail and it should be considered private.

Was she seeing a OM?

If our marriage was what it should be I would have never pursued a relationship with OM.

I guess that’s a long winded version of what I believe. If repentance is from the heart the person will do whatever is necessary to ensure the trust of their mate. In the early stages of recovery I think a WS should do whatever the BS needs to ensure them of that trust. But…there will come a time when we as the BS will have to choose to trust again vs depending on external evidence. Our mate’s actions agreeing with their words are what will bring us to that point of choosing to trust again.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's hard to imagine that your wife has shown no remorse at all. That would be infuriating!! Although my H has not truly repented before God, he has shown some remorse towards me. He has admitted how wrong he was for the choices he made. He has told me that although I contributed to the break down of the marriage, he takes total responsibility for having the affair. He has also said how very sorry he is for hurting me. So that does mean something, although it loses quite a bit of its meaning when the behavior is repeated.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would have been happy with those statements. The best I ever got was an “I guess it’s not all your fault.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 07/13/04 06:10 PM
TRUSTING HIM,

Thanks for your reply. Wow, it sounds as if you worked very hard to be in a place of accountability. I agree with you that if a person is sincerely repentant, he or she doesn't mind doing what it takes to prove themselves trustworthy again.

I'm sorry you never heard the words of remorse that all of us BS's long to hear. Keep trusting God to work in your former's life. She may yet come to a point of conviction in her life. If not, it seems that you have done all you could do to restore the marriage. You can move onward in life with the freedom of that knowledge.

EVERYONE,

I could be off base here, but the more I consider our situation the more I think it's going to have to be an all or nothing proposition here. Either I totally entrust this relationship to God and not "require" anything of H or I seek a divorce.

There doesn't seem to be any middle ground in this relationship. H resists and resents any type of accountability, even if he's innocent. That is his make-up. If someone tells him he has to go right, he'll go left just because. So, if I'm to stay married, I'll have to leave any consequences or judgements up to God. Then, continue on until I feel "ënough".

Like I said, this is a thought that's in process. Take care everyone. Wishing you a good day!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/13/04 09:24 PM
Leah
You said: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Either I totally entrust this relationship to God and not "require" anything of H or I seek a divorce </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think that's it exactly. Which leaves a lot up to you, regardless of which way you go. I know you've been trying to trust God with this for a long time. How close are you to the end of your endurance level?
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 07/14/04 02:12 AM
AVONDALE,

You asked how close I am to the end of my endurance level. It varies from day to day. Sometimes I'm sooooo there. If there was a lawyer sitting in the room with papers, I'd be signing on the dotted line.

Then other times, I'm really okay. I hope things are soon resolved one way or the other. Thanks for your concern.

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/14/04 10:10 PM
Hi all,

Still busy with work and the IRS situation.

avondale...

I'm not sure how to explain this "M" scenario... because I'm not sure how I ended up to the degree I did.

WE initially talked about it off and on... with no real commitment from either of us. Then out of no where last summer she started talking about getting "M" in September of this year.

Well I said we could take a look at it... and see what happens. If it looks like something that will work... we can maybe look at September 18th of this year.

Well after much discussion concerning our kids (mine and hers) coming together in one household... we decided to hold off until they were all done with school and out of both houses.

The reason for this... is my kids don't really care for her kids, and visa-versa. So rather having two freight trains collide head-on by bringing the kids into one household... we decided to wait.

Well now she gets upset about once a month... because she says that she wants to get "M", but she knows that the kids may cause a problem. So she is thinking of ways to get past it all... only to frustrate herself more because she comes up empty handed... with no solution in sight.

So she gets upset with me... because I'm not coming up with any viable solution to our situation.

In the meantime... she set a time for next year out of the blue... June! Now she wants to get "M" in June of next year. Nothing really will have changed concerning the kids... if they all continue going to College and living at home. So rather than argue with her... I said "let's look at June, and see if it's possible".

So now she has June of next year picked out to get "M".

I don't see our kid situation changing... but I suppose it could.

Originally... we were looking at possibly getting "M" in two years because that's pretty much when all the kids will be finished with school, and most likely want to go out on their own.

But she is not real happy with that... so she keeps trying to bump up the timeline.

Hope that made some sense.

Leah...

Sorry to hear that you couldn't hold back on the telephone bill situation, but I understand why you asked for it again... and personally I would of probably did the same thing. You just want to know if he is out screwing around again... and you have every right to know... if he is, or if he isn't.

Considering what he has done... you need to know these type of things, in order to help feel secure in your "M". He should gladly hand his phone bills over to you, if he truly wants to comfort you considering what he has done.

I can only answer your question about the control issue from my perspective.

I wouldn't look at it from a control stand point if I was in his shoes. In fact, had I gone out and had an "A", and I was trying to make things right again (trust, etc.), I would do everything in my power to try to earn your trust back again.

If someone is concerned with their "M", and truly wants to keep it... they will tap dance if they need to... in order to keep the peace.

Now... if that doesn't get it... then... "Houston, we have a problem"!

Hope everyones day is going well... well back off to work and to fill out more IRS wonderfulness.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ July 14, 2004, 08:33 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/15/04 12:55 AM
Wallace - When I was a kid, and my parents would say “maybe” or something like you said, such as “we’ll look into it” to me, that meant “Whoopie, it’s mine!” It’s almost like to me, those words imply the inevitable and all I needed to do was whine to make them definitely come true. I wonder if the same is true of your g/f. OR it could be explained by the following:
You said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well now she gets upset about once a month </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let’s just blame the marriage focus/timetable pushing on PMS, lol <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Me - I went to visit my dad today, had a great trip and came back with a bunch of birthday cake. Tomorrow I turn 46 and I am still feeling pretty good about myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> despite the last three years of yuckiness. God is faithful!

<small>[ July 14, 2004, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/15/04 01:19 AM
Hi avondale,

It's like I said.

"If your feeling good... then your looking good too"!

"HAPPY BIRTHDAY" avondale!!!

I love B-day cake, and I would have some with you... but I'm in the process of losing about 10 pounds. Then I will be at my fighting weight... and since I have to go in and fight with the IRS, well I might as well be ready to take them on... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I have been working out quite a bit in spite of all the wonderfulness surrounding me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Three years of yuckiness for you... but the good news is, is that when it finally does resolve itself... it does start getting better.

It will take time... sometimes it takes longer for some than others. I am personally still haunted with it all from time to time. But it is getting better.

Personally though... I don't think it ever really truly goes away. You just can't erase that amount of time that you have spent with someone. It most probably will always be there... you just have to mentally tuck it away, until it rears it's ugly head the next time... and then you deal with it accordingly.

You know... my G/F told me that she in fact was spoiled as a child. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> So maybe she is in fact taking it the way you spelled it out.

Personally... I think it is PMS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hope you have a wonderful B-Day avondale. Your one year younger than my G/F... and she looks really good for her age... in fact she looks like she is about 38 yrs. old. All natural... the girl next door look... if you know what I mean.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 07/15/04 02:14 AM
AVONDALE,

Happy Birthday!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I hope this is the beginning of a great year for you. Maybe all the ÿuck is behind you and good things are around the bend. Have a terrific day!

WALLACE,

Wow, sorry you are still dealing with the IRS mess. It will be great when that is all done. We'll all do a little jig for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yeah, the PMS thing gets my vote too. That was my first thought when I read "about once a month..." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I know that is when I have to guard my tongue the most.

Hope things are looking up for you soon!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/15/04 09:33 PM
Hi All,

Avondale

Happy Belated Birthday. Mine was last week and I pretty much stayed close to home. I went back and forth between Disneyland and California Adventure Park for a few hours. There is a rollercoaster at California Adventure that I just love. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


Petvet, WGTT, EC, and Everyone Else

Hello, I help you're having a wonderful week.

relady

<small>[ July 16, 2004, 08:56 PM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/17/04 01:56 AM
Hi All,

I apologize if I offended anyone, I will edit my post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Have a great weekend.

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/18/04 05:50 AM
Relady
Not sure what you needed to apologize for. I read your entire post soon after you had originally typed it and nothing seemed amiss to me. Sometimes we go a few days without any postings here, especially during the summer. Do as your conscious tells you, but don't assume silence is a reflection of the previous post.

Hope everyone is having a fantastic weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/17/04 06:23 PM
Avondale

Thank you. I think I felt it was a little harsh since I've been gone awhile <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Silly me, I should know we're all tougher AKA Tough Love, Duh!! than that after what we've been through. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 07/17/04 10:57 PM
RELADY,

I read your post when you first wrote it and went to look for it just now. Is it gone or am I overlooking it?? Anyhow, from what I remembered reading, it was just fine. The part you wrote me, I thought a lot about as I tend to do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm trying not to "think" too much. But as everyone here knows I'm a work in progress.

If I remember right, you mentioned the idea of still hearing God's voice after filing. I liked what you wrote because it's very true. If we're following God's path, we will hear from him, whether that path is divorce or marriage.

I didn't mean to suggest that staying was necessarily the more "spiritual" choice because I truly don't feel that way. I'm sorry if that's how I came across. I was just saying I can't bear to be here sometimes without a whole lot of help from God. He's the only One who can give me the patience and love I so desperately need to hang in there.

But, I'm ready to call it quits if there is adultery again. And, I feel totally at peace about that before God. It's taken a long time to solidify things in my mind, but I now feel I must have this boundary for many reasons.

So, if the apology was directed towards me or if the editing was done for my benefit, please know both were unnecessary. Before writing on this thread, I always enjoyed reading your posts. You seem very wise and have a wonderful attitude about things. So feel free to write away. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ME,

Well the phone bills are all in and reviewed. All checks out fine. I guess it's all about perceived power and control. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Sometimes I think its all one big huge game with H. A game I really don't like much at all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So, like I wrote AVONDALE, it's all or nothing. If I stay I just have to let all this stuff go and trust God to reveal truth if there's something I need to know. Easier said than done. But with God's help, all things are possible. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hope you're all having a great weekend!

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 07/18/04 03:58 AM
Hello everyone

Just a quick update - no intervention yet - WH hasn't been home.

I am amzingly well and feel a sense of peace. It's like putting WH in God's hands and leaving him there. I just need to focus on HIM.

Tonight I told a new friend (female) that I am gratefull for what I went through because I wouldn't be the person I am today.

Sooooooooooooooo tired. I've been working lots - playing catch up.

D.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/18/04 09:40 PM


<small>[ July 18, 2004, 04:41 PM: Message edited by: relady ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/18/04 10:01 PM
Hello All,

Sorry about the double posts, My finger hit the wrong key!

L2B

Thank you for your kindness. I'm glad you got a chance to read it. I certainly wouldn't be able to write it again!

All

A Personal Observation

I would really like all of your comments on this one.

In the last few month, I have friends and relatives who have been introducting me to different men. Never mind the fact that I'm not even divorced yet and it doesn't seem to bother them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Last week I had a gentleman call me out of the clear blue sky that I haven't seen in 30 years and he was the best friend of a guy I dated in college! We are from the same town and he has become a well known successful businessman here in California.

Anyway before we were two minutes into the conversation, he went on to tell me how he felt about me at that time and could we get together this weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My theory is this: When ever we develop a strong relationship with the Lord on a daily basis, the enemy is not happy, so he goes into his bag of tricks and finds the one that will trip us up. So, there is either a blessing around the corner or I'm walking toward 'purpose'.

We as WS have to really be alert, although this guy's comments were pleasing to my ear, he wasn't of God. So we have to have the ability to step around the 'props'.

Another thing I have observed, is that when we work on ourselves and become health mentally, we begin to attract a different kind of person than our WS. They are more in tune with what we 'deserve' than what we 'settle' for.

Something that makes you go hhhmmmmm!!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/19/04 12:49 AM
WGTT - Thanks for the update. You're doing great, if you can say you're grateful for what you've been through cuz it made you what you are today. That speaks volumes!

Relady - I agree with what you said - the Enemy is always looking to trip us up. I'm sure friends and family all want you to "be happy" (even though we all know relationships aren't THE THING that makes one happy, they sometimes enhance our lives). Sooooo....you said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyway before we were two minutes into the conversation, he went on to tell me how he felt about me at that time and could we get together this weekend!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what did you say to all that?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> And I'm not familiar with CA law, what, if any, timetable is there regarding divorce/separation, etc.?

<small>[ July 18, 2004, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 07/19/04 01:31 AM
RE Lady


We do attract different people as we grow. I don't think I would have been attracted to WH back then, if I was as healthy as I am now spiritually.

I believe the enemy will temp us. He's cunning and patient. How do you feel about re-marriage in situations such as yours?

Did you read sunrise1's post? She had an old boyfriend re-appear at a summer camp they had attended. She went back after 17 years and her old BF after 22 years!

Have a great week! I am going to take my kids to atlanta to see a braves game & spend the night. Should be a lot of fun.

Blessings to all,

D.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/19/04 05:04 AM
Hey again!

Avondale

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what did you say to all that?????? And I'm not familiar with CA law, what, if any, timetable is there regarding divorce/separation, etc.?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I explained that I wasn't interested in a relationship, and until my divorce is final, I would avoid all appearances of a dating scenario.

Of course, he didn't understand that and further explained 4 phone calls later that he would not let me go again! Again!! So, we would talk until September and then 'date'!

I have no idea yet what Gods plan is and until then I have asked him to remove those that shouldn't be in my life!

There is a 6 month and 1 day waiting period, so September would be the month. The scary part is that I am so 'ok' with it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

WGTT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tonight I told a new friend (female) that I am gratefull for what I went through because I wouldn't be the person I am today.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have said that many times to other ladies in the same situation. Sometimes it takes something drastic for God to get our attention, and He will certainly remove those whom we have placed before Him.

You're right in that, today my H would not be my choice either. I sometimes marvel and praise the Lord for what I have become today. I feel better and I treat myself better!

So, God would have to do a mighty work in our H to have them return to their rightful place in our lives.

I hope you intervention goes well. I admire your strength. It's appears easy for me, since I have had no real contact for two years.

Hello Everyone Else

Hope you had a wonderful weekend.

relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/19/04 09:59 PM
Hello Everyone, hope you had a great weekend.....


Relady - Sorry, but I'm the cold water friend " Splash, Splash" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Hey, I would take it slow and make wise decisions....Don't get tripped up, what you build now is what you'll be walking in, in the future.

Hello, Petvet, Avondale, Wallace, Leah, WGTT, Dave, Momma8 and anyone else I missed.

Take Care
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/20/04 03:18 AM
Hello All,

EC

Thank you for the cold water! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It was so hot today, it was just what I needed!

Not to worry though. I realize it is just another tactic of the enemy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Unless God says he's the one, he's not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope everyone had a wonderful day.

relady
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 07/20/04 12:32 PM
R E Lady </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So, God would have to do a mighty work in our H to have them return to their rightful place in our lives.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">God can do all of this and more!

I am headed out of town to see my college roomate and take the kids to a baseball game in atlanta.


D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/21/04 12:50 AM
Hey all,

Still busier than a bee... but thought I would drop in and say hi.

Relady...

If you edited your post... because of what you posted to me... don't worry about it. You have always had good advice... and I would never take it any other way, but in a positive constructive way.

I wouldn't want you to hold back... that's the beauty of it all... you tell it like it is.

This is the "Tough Love" thread... and after what we have all been through... we can dish it out as well as take it.

Concerning your little encounter there... I agree with EC. I personally didn't start dating until after I was legally "D". I think it's bad business, plus in God's eyes your still "M".

If you did date this guy... IMHO... you would be commiting adultry, because your legally still "M".

This guy may be a nice guy... but he is moving awful quick IMO.

Your smarter than that, and I know you will make the right decisions.

So... I'm still waiting for you to go ahead and tell me more concerning my relationship with my G/F.

If I'm doing something that I need to know about, but I'm not seeing... please feel free to let me know... and I know you will. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Leah...

Well I'm glad to hear that your "H" finally coughed up the telephone records and everything checked out.

Is he still treating you well... or do you think he is up to something?

avondale...

What's going on with your "H"?

Do you have anymore meetings coming up in the near future?

WGTT...

It does sound like you are doing well in spite of your "H's" sideline activity.

Do you still plan on following through with the intervention?

Thanks for the update... and keep us posted.

EC...

What's new my friend?

Have you heard anymore from your YD, or OD?

That's a darn shame that their visit fell through. Have they made any other plans to get together with you in the meantime?

Petvet...

Things are either busy and going well... or both, because I don't recall seeing a post from you in awhile.

Hope things are well.

Me...

Well I finally got my IRS papers filled out and sent... YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now all I have to do is wait to see when my court date is for.

My G/F and I have been doing pretty good so far this month (holds breath and crosses fingers), hope it keeps up.

Well if I missed anyone (and I most probably did), I hope you are all doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ July 20, 2004, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 07/21/04 01:18 AM
HI EVERYONE,

WALLACE,

You asked if he's still treating me well. Actually, he's been working almost every waking moment, so I haven't seen him much at all.

I'm just trying to keep busy in a constructive sort of way and also am spending lots of time with my daughters. Still fight loneliness from time to time. But God is ever present even when H is not.

Glad to hear the IRS mess is behind you. Yeah!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And glad this month is going good for your G/F and you. Hope it continues.


RELADY,

You are wise to continue to stay away until D is finalized. It will certainly be worth the wait to have a totally clear conscience before the Lord. I'm glad to see that you are doing well as you move forward in life. God bless!


WGTT,

Glad you're spirits are still up and that you have peace within. What a testimony with all you've been through!


AVONDALE,

I hope you continue to do well. Anymore conversations with H? Had an interesting conversation with a lady yesterday about her brother. He walked away from the Lord and his family for 25 years. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> But eventually came back to his relationship with the Lord. She spoke of consequences with him. Because although he desperately loves his former wife and wants to reconcile, she is no longer interested. I guess they're very good friends and she never remarried but she isn't at the point of wanting M with him again. Let's just hope if reconciliation is what is to take place, it won't take 25 years to get there! Take care.


EC, PETVET and OTHERS,

Hope everyone is doing well. Hope you all have a great week!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/21/04 11:54 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: Happy Belated Belated Birthday! What type of cake do you like?

Relady: I have noticed a total tranformation from last year about you. You are very at ease. You were correct when you said that our mine set and appearance attracts certain people in our surroundings.

Wallace: Yes, kids can be a problem with second marriages. Think with your head sir. Two years is not a long time to wait to get married.

Me: Just living life.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/21/04 11:58 AM
Do you think Petvet eloped??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (I bet that will get him to post)

Do you think EC decided to audition for the latest "Bachelor" television show?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (I know we heard from him but it was soooo brief)

All teasing aside....Not much new with me, waiting for H to call and arrange the next meeting. I figure it will be in August, since my b'day was in mid-July and our anniversary is mid-September. Hopefully he has learned from his mistake of filing for separation on our anniversary and won't repeat the bad timing.

WGTT - How was your trip??

Hope everyone else is doing well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/22/04 12:21 AM
Guess who is back?

avondale...

Petvet must of known you were posting that... because it looks like you crossed posted while he was posting... how ironic.

But hey! It worked.

Concerning your "H"... let's hope that he doesn't have to do anything more... but come back home to you and put his "M" back together.

I always try to pray for you and everyone else on this board to try to find a resolution to their situation, and to allow the Lord to have everyone follow his lead.


Leah...

With your "H" gone all the time (hopefully it is strictly business), I am sure that there are many times that you feel lonely.

In order to have a sucessful "M", IMHO... is that both spouses have to be grounded spiritually as well committed to their family without exception... including work.

When one spouse is gone all the time, for whatever reason... they in fact are not fullfilling their part as a Parent, and/or Spouse.

When one thing such as a job... takes away from the family... be it any job, and their time is devoted to that, more than their own family... the family suffers.
Yes it's nice to have a big house, new cars, and all the frills that go along with it... but at what price does everyone in the family have to pay because someone is caught up in trying to be a success, and, "hey everyone! look what I have"!.

Well guess what? You have all these nice things... but you may not have your "M", or your family anymore... because your too busy trying to stay ahead of the game to have all these nice things.

I found this out in my own life and "M" the hard way. I worked long and hard hours when I had my business... and I thought I was doing the right thing (being a good provider). What I didn't see while all of this was going on... was the lonliness that was being put upon my family.

If you don't have someone to share any or all of what has been accompished... then in fact... you have accomplished nothing except what is in your own mind.

Your "H" needs to wake up and smell the coffee, and maybe drink about 10 cups as well. IMHO... if you lose your faith in God and your job is more important to you than your family... your headed down a dead end road.

Keep the faith, and keep doing what your doing... the Lord will be their for you during your times of lonliness... I know... because I have been there and done that.

God's blessing to you Leah.

Petvet...

Good to hear from you!

I agree with you 100%, I thinkit's not asking too much to have my G/F wait until the kids on both sides all grow up and get on their way before we decide to tie the knot.

Now if I can only get my G/F to see this samething... it would be a wonderful thing.

Glad to hear that your doing well.

Trusting Him...

How are you doing?

Keep us posted when you get a chance.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/22/04 02:22 AM
Hey All,

I hope you're having a wonderful mid-week.

Wallace

I should have known you were 'tougher' than that!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you did date this guy... IMHO... you would be commiting adultry, because your legally still "M".
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are absolutely correct. I don't plan to date him before or after my divorce! I'm just not interested in that at the moment and I can't afford to be sidetracked. Although, he did get back stage passes for a girlfriend and I to see George Benson on Friday night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This guy may be a nice guy... but he is moving awful quick IMO.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It feels that way to me as well. He didn't call on Monday and on Tuesday wondered why I hadn't called him!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> He has never been
married so that in itself is scary!

I took care of that little scenario very quickly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My G/F and I have been doing pretty good so far this month (holds breath and crosses fingers), hope it keeps up.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The end of the month is not here yet! How about if you uncross your fingers, breath and move on?

L2B

It is very good to keep busy to close out the chatter in your mind. Lonliness is very real regardless of how close your walk is with the Lord. The hardest lonliness is when they're in the same house!

No dating for me! I am not interested in having God mad at me. I've come to far.

Petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have noticed a total tranformation from last year about you. You are very at ease. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow you are very observant! Many people have said that to me, but only through conversation. For you to see it in my writing is amazing. Thank you.

I have the peace of God that I had only heard about. It has a lot to do with moving forward and feeling like it's the right thing to do.

Remember though, I haven't seen or talked to my H in 2 years. Seeing him or talking to him could blow everything! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

WGTT, Avondale, EC and Everyone Else

God Bless and have a wonderful week.

relady
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/22/04 09:45 PM
Hey All,

Just an update!!

I turned down the tickets. I think he definitely has a problem. We haven't even seen each other yet and he is already acting like we're a couple. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> What Have I Done! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/23/04 02:29 AM
Hi all,

Relady...

I think you did the right thing by not going. From what you were describing... this guy sounded like he was coming on way to strong and to quick.

If he thinks your a couple and you haven't even been "D", and/or really haven't even seen this guy... I would avoid this guy at all costs... sounds like big trouble to me.

In response to your earlier post... I am in the midst of much confusion concerning everything that is going on in my life at this point. My Dad, IRS, the way things are going with my G/F.

I feel like I'm caught up in another transition in my life that I'm not ready to take on. I'm still trying to heal from all that has happened in the past... and I need that time to fully heal.

I haven't questioned my faith... but sometimes I feel like God is just letting me go through all of this to test my faith, or maybe I am beginning to leave him behind... I don't know.

I listened to this song... and it really summed up what I'm feeling right at the moment... It's called "Walking and Thinking", by a band called RA, and my son gave it to me to listen to

It goes like this... (acoustical guitar arrangement only) It in actuality is a very sad song.

This is the first verse.

"From the air I see your loneliness".

"You carry on despite your fear".

"Inside a box you keep your sanity... and it will never seem clear... to me".

"Over the hills a light it flows, it shows the Angels laughing... where is the love that were suppose to find".

"Lost in a maze of games so very dark and overwhelming... lost in these thoughts, that seem to rule my mind".

It gets darker... and the part that bothers me... is it really hit me... hard!

Right now... I am in the middle of a moment, that the Lord is not helping me with, and I don't think I'm helping myself with either. It just seems to go deeper as time goes on.

I'm still fighting it all... because it seems that anymore... that is what I do best.

In time... I'll figure this all out (hopefully with the Lords help).

I may quit posting for awhile, until I pull this all together.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ August 27, 2004, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 07/23/04 04:06 AM
Hi All,

Wallace

You're right, he appears to be serious trouble. I am going to avoid him like the plague. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I feel like I'm caught up in another transition in my life that I'm not ready to take on. I'm still trying to heal from all that has happened in the past... and I need that time to fully heal. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, you do need time to heal. It's almost impossible to get the 'you' time when you have a girlfriend along with her baggage and constant barrage of marital talk. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

If you're staying with her to avoid the confrontation or drama of letting her go, don't. This is going to happen sooner or later from pure pressure. Believe me, sooner is better.

There are times when we feel like the Lord has abandoned us. He hasn't stopped talkimg to us, we just have so many things going on, that we don't hear. Ask Him if there were any instructions He's given you that you haven't followed. And make sure you spend quality time with Him just as you do with your family.

Listening was a major lesson for me.

Stay away from the sad songs.

Another clue, is that if you feel like you are being pulled in every direction 'helter skelter', you're being 'driven' and not 'led' of the Lord. He is in no way involved with confustion. When you can't decide what to do, do nothing until you hear from Him. Once you make a decision, you should be totally at peace with it or it is not of God.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In time... I'll figure this all out (hopefully with the Lords help).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe me, you won't figure it out without Him.
You cannot do this by yourself.

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/23/04 11:09 AM
Wallace dear Wallace,
I was concerned when I read your post. I didn't even need to think about what to write - because I know I cannot say it any better than Relady did....so I'm just going to repeat her post.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree, you do need time to heal. It's almost impossible to get the 'you' time when you have a girlfriend along with her baggage and constant barrage of marital talk.

If you're staying with her to avoid the confrontation or drama of letting her go, don't. This is going to happen sooner or later from pure pressure. Believe me, sooner is better.

There are times when we feel like the Lord has abandoned us. He hasn't stopped talking to us, we just have so many things going on, that we don't hear. Ask Him if there were any instructions He's given you that you haven't followed. And make sure you spend quality time with Him just as you do with your family.

Stay away from the sad songs.

Another clue, is that if you feel like you are being pulled in every direction 'helter skelter', you're being 'driven' and not 'led' of the Lord. He is in no way involved with confustion. When you can't decide what to do, do nothing until you hear from Him. Once you make a decision, you should be totally at peace with it or it is not of God.


quote from Wallace:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In time... I'll figure this all out (hopefully with the Lords help).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Believe me, you won't figure it out without Him.
You cannot do this by yourself </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't stop posting! Remember, you have control over whether or not you allow yourself to give in to the negativity that does not come from the Lord. We love you and care for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/23/04 06:36 PM
Hi All,

Happy Friday!!

Avondale - Hope your meeting will go well in Aug. I agree with Wallace, it would be nice if your H turned around and got it together. You mentioned

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think EC decided to audition for the latest "Bachelor" television show?? (I know we heard from him but it was soooo brief)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think I would be to scared to audition, besides can you imagine me being on there with 20 women on my arms trying to bring them all to church at once <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Wouldn't that be a sight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I guess that's like having a family outting with the kids going to " Hooters " <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


I never considered myself a "Bachelor" but just a single guy trying to reverse himself from a crispy critter from all the mess...

Relady - That's good you backed off from the guy. I think his feelings are "Old" infacuations for you, trying to relive his past feelings and emotions. Eventhough you are detached from your H, it's still best to make it a clean cut. You've been doing good this long why mess it up.

Wallace - Glad you got your taxes done, what a relief that can be. That's some good lyrics to the song, I'm sure the music part of it ought to be good. As far as your g/f, time is the best friend you can have now.

Leah - Sorry to hear you have to deal with be lonely at times, but on the other hand sometimes those are the times when you can be creative. I'm with Wallace, I was too busy to see my exw was lonely, but she wouldn't communicate to me that she was lonely. As I look back, I think her communication was like, hey let's go to the mall, let's go do this or that. I think I refused because it involved spending money, and since I knew we didn't have any to spend, my thoughts were, why get myself in deeper debt, I'm already depressed, therefore I avoided going to those places, but to her it was a place of relief.....


Me - Nothing to much new happening. Trying to adjust to my new financial status since CS ended. Starting to house shop now, hoping to buy in the next few months. Since I'm single, it seems that I'm starting to have conflicts with married couples. I think my singles causes problems. I think they get the idea, I'm living responsibilty free which cause envy or threat.

The married women feel left alone if the husband hangs out with me, don't know why, I'm not a woman chaser, neither am I gay. Yet I treat the couple as one and don't divide them.

The men feel threatened if there wives speak to me like they always have, but now it's seems it's different now that I'm single, so now I get the distant treatment from some. It's the same married friends....

Sooooo, I guess I'll have to find me some single friends now......When I was married we treated single friends as bothers or sisters and family..I guess it's a different day.....


Hello to everyone else.....
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/26/04 04:58 PM
Hi all,

relady and avondale...

Thank you both for the advice. I'm taking a look at all my options at this point in time. Not sure which direction I'm going to swing yet... but I'll let you all know when I decide to make a full blown decision.

EC...

I went through kind of like the same thing your describing concerning my "M" friends. Some I have seen a few times here and there... but for the most part... I haven't seen that much of them, only on a few occasions.
I met many people through the various "D" groups that I attened, and made many good friends there as well... so I usually get together with them and people from Church.
Not much time to do much visiting w/ friends at the moment... but hopefully in time that will change.

I wish that I had finished with the IRS... I'm still in the heat of the battle, and I'm not sure at this point which way it may go. Hopefully you will get to post that again when I do actually win and finish up with them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope everyone had a great weekend, and hope your week goes well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 07/27/04 02:03 AM
Hi Everyone,

((((WALLACE))))

I just read your post and am so concerned about you. You seem pretty discouraged. I completely understand those feelings of confusion and defeat... those are the times when it's toughest to keep looking up and keep moving forward. But please, make the choice to keep trusting the Lord. He is the only One who truly has all the answers.

In my tough times, I often think of the verse,"Be still and know that I am God." It's easy to get tangled up in our own thoughts and activities, and often we need to do just as that verse says. I will pray for you my friend.

Thanks for your thoughts regarding my situation and lonliness. I didn't know you had your own business too. Everything you wrote is so true... things don't matter. I have told my husband I would gladly give up all the "stuff" to have him at home more. The big house is nice but so nothing in comparison to the dream of a shared life and love. It's so sad to see him pour himself into this business just to lose out on all that really matters in life.

But that is something God has to show him. All my attempts just bring anger and frustration on his part. He wants me to be supportive of all that he does, which currently means he's very, very absent. He has been on business out of state the past few days after working non-stop for weeks. It's a situation I have to continually give back to God. He alone can fill my empty heart and bring H back to Him.

Please take care of yourself Wallace. I hope to hear you can find some time to find some peace and direction in your life. Keep posting...we're all here for you!!


EC,

I can understand why you wouldn't want to jump on the idea of spending time with your ex if you felt it meant shopping and more wasted money. Unlike your situation, I have often expressed to H how much it would mean to me to have him home with us. I would be delighted to just have his company, without going anywhere. As I wrote Wallace, I don't care much about material things. The relationship is what matters. I just wish my H shared the same value and perspective.

I can relate somewhat to your difficulty with friendships with married couples. Unfortunately, because I attend church without my H and do pretty much everything with just the girls and I, we aren't regarded as a couple. Most people think of me as a single mom. Sadly,I pretty much think of myself that way too. But obviously I am married, so I can't really hang out with the Singles group either. So I have my lady friends, but as far as couple and family friends, that has all changed in the past five years.

I hope you can find people that are accepting and supportive of you. Of course, you can always post here... we're here for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


RELADY and AVONDALE,

You both seem to be doing well. You have stayed strong and committed thru long periods of time that would bring lesser folks to a point of compromise. I admire you both for doing what's right and staying the course. Keep looking to God - He will bless. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


TRUSTING HIM,

Haven't heard from you in a while. Hope you are doing well.

HI to WGTT, PETVET, and anyone else I might have missed. Hope you all have a great week!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/27/04 11:51 AM
Hi all! No, I have not eloped. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Leah: You may want to encourage your H to revise his work schedule for more you and family time, or he will slowly but surely lose his family.

Relady: Take you time; I get the feeling that you won't be on the open market very long. Don't rush into anything.

Avondale: Twenty five year wait? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> In the end, you will be responsible how your life evolves. Life is short; especially, after you have exhausted your options.

Wallace: How about this recommendation. Tell your GF that you would like to have some space for a while and that if she would like to date other folks that would be OK with you. If you are getting alot of drama at the dating stage, what will your life be like later.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/29/04 11:44 AM
Hi all,
Not much new with me. I hope everyone is doing well and enjoying the last of summer! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Trusting , are you still around? You haven't posted in a while...hope everything is OK.

WGTT , same for you - no posts. I know you're in the middle of "a situation" with your H. Have you begun any action?

<small>[ July 29, 2004, 06:45 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 07/29/04 12:37 PM
Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to let you all know that I won't be able to post for awhile. We're going on a family vacation. Hurray!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> My extended family is headed north for a reunion and week at the lake. Should be lots of fun!

Hope all of you are doing well! Take care and keep looking up.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 07/29/04 04:36 PM
Hi all,

Not much new going on here either... but I'm sure that will change (calm before the storm).

Petvet...

Thanks for the advice. I had brought splitting up for awhile to my G/F, and it did not go over real well. See the problem is... she doesn't want to split up... she wants to get "M".

What is putting her in these moods... is she doesn't want to wait any longer to get "M", but she knows it's out of her control... because we both have certain circumstances that need to be dealt with.

Leah...

Hope you have a great time while on vacation.

Good time to bond with your "H".

Hope everyone is well... gotta go... the President of the Company is here today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 07/30/04 05:20 AM
All

*chuckles* Still here but a lot going on in life. Computer died, cable disappeared, laptop is slow on 36k modem and this thread takes eons to load <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

So....I try to read from work but can't post from there. Going back and reading now to catch up on all the happening's.

Here on this in? *SHOCKED*

I had the children Tuesday evening and their Mom was going to pick them up from my house around noon that day and I had agreed to go into work a little late so that they would not be by themselves for a long time. OD had just turned 13 and we both feel that she is responsibile enough to watch over them for a few hours.

As I was leaving for work I told the children what they needed to do before Mom arrived. OD was to get a bath, make her bed, vacuum her room and put her clothes away. DS was to make our bed and put his clothes away. YD was to make her bed and put her clothes away. They all were to put away all dishes they used for drinks or snacks in the dishwasher and be dressed and ready for Mom when she arrived.

Did I really expect for all of that to get done? Nope. .. but I did have some expectations.

But upon arriving home late Wednesday evening I was shocked to see that the living room and kitchen was clean. As I walked down the hall into the bedrooms I was even more shocked to see that ALL the beds were made up and ALL clothes were put away. By now my heart is pounding and I am so PROUD <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> of the children that I think I need to let them know. Opps! It's 11:30 PM, just a little late to call them and express my sincere appreciation.

They were leaving early Thursday morning to go to Florida with Mom for the weekend so I may not get to call them tomorrow either. OK...I'll just write them each a letter and it will be at home when they arrive and know how PROUD I am of them. But of course YD takes care of all the problems for me. She calls early Thursday morning because her monogramed towels are at my house and she just has to have them to take to the beach. She checks with MoM and it's OK for me to bring them by as I go to work.

Upon arriving at their house DS runs out to hug me and I tell thanks. He asks, "For what?" For doing everything that I asked you to yesterday. By now YD has come out and I tell her "Thank You." Again, "For What?" For doing everything that I asked you to yesterday. When I got home last night I was so proud to see that everything was done.

They both replied at the same time, "We didn't do anything Daddy, Mommy did it all."



Now I can think of 1001 different reasons for absoutely nothing to have been done at my house


</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm in a hurry kids and have to get back to work</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Daddy can deal with that when he gets home</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ya'll don't do this at home so why do it here</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You should have done this sooner, get dressed and let's go</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and about 900 more</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
but I am hard pressed to see why my former made all the beds, put away all the clothes and even ran the dishwasher.

I did go on in the house and tell her;

"I was in the process of telling the children thanks for doing everything that I had asked but I've discovered that the thanks needs to go to you. Thank you for doing all of that."
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 07/30/04 10:49 PM
Trusting - what a GREAT story!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> But you can't leave it hanging! How did your former respond when you thanked her???
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 07/31/04 11:30 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I guess things are at a relative calm for you.

Wallace: Enjoy the calm while you can.

Trusting: That was some story. She may have felt obligated to do the chores or something like that. I don't know what to make of situation. Going forward, she whether she has similar acts of kindness in other areas of your life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Me: Getting ready to go to Biloxi for a couple of days. Other than that, things are calm. Oh! I was shock earlier this week when I found out that my ex is dating someone older enough to be her father and maybe my father. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It was kinda funny.

Later.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 07/31/04 06:48 PM
Hi All,

TH - Hey that's a great story! I wonder what sparked that? Just my thoughts, I think it's something that's been in her heart to do for some time, and the opportunity presented it's self. You never know what to expect sometimes, hang in there.....

Petvet - Oh, I'm sure you just love it when the WS goes out and finds grandpa <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> They'll try to jumpstart anything. As I heard a young guy say about him and his senior wifes night love time, " Well I guess it's time to go jump the old trampoline" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


Leah - Vacation time! That's great have fun...

Wallace - Hang in there, if she knows you're the right one, she'll wait. Some people are in love with idea of being married (security) but not with the work it takes to stay in love, take your time.

Avondale - So how are things going with you these days?


Me: Well here I am on saturday trying to figure out my strategy, searching the laws. I got a letter today that exw is taking me to court "again" to increase the small arrearage child support amount that I still pay. This issue was aleady settled in early 2003. When will she stop? She lives her life to always trying to gain monetary revenge. I feel like I'm starting all over again with the court stuff. Anyway, I'll find out monday if she can legally do this, eventhough my YD has emancipated...

Take Care
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/01/04 05:18 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone is having a wonderful weekend.

TH

What a great story! You have to give us Part 2. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

L2B

I hope you're having a wonderful vacation.

EC

My brother is going through the same thing with his X. She has put my niece out of the house at 17 and she is currently living with my brother and she's asking to increase the child support! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> The only one making money is the Attorney!

IMHO, when a wife has an affair and wants a divorce, she should forfeit her child support and also be declared unfit!

Petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Take you time; I get the feeling that you won't be on the open market very long. Don't rush into anything.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will definitely be taking my time. Right now I'm not interested in investing time in a relationship. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Opinions Please <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

My D will be final in September and I haven't seen or heard from my STBX since I sent the papers for him to sign...Did any of you write a letter or make a phone call to end on a friendly note? did your X call you? Or did you just let things go as they were and celebrate your brains out? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I was thinking about writing a letter and I don't want him to think I'm trying to initiate anything and I also don't want him to think I have bad feelings towards him either.

So, what is the best way to do that?

relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/02/04 12:51 AM
Hi Relady,

Thanks for the encouragement, at least i'm not alone out there...

As far as calling or writting your soon to be xh as soon as dv is final....It depends on how your relationship is now....I tried to be friendly but she had lots of anger and vengence, so for me it was best I stay away..... My dv day was a mixed emotion day,I remember celebrating afterwards....

Since exww had OM(s) during dv I was ready to end it...Since my OD's gradutation was 1 week after dv, I remember speaking to exww, but I never saw her and haven't since 2001.......except for a glimpse back in May 2004 in passing when I was there, she looked like a stranger.....

Anyway, it's possible to be friends afterwards, I think it's more peaceful when you are, otherwise if the person inflicts emotional pain, then cut communication and never look back..

Take Care
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/02/04 02:44 AM
EC

Thank you for your input. My stbxh and I don't really have a relationship. We haven't talked in 2 years nor have I seen him. I wrote him a letter along with the D papers to sign. He signed them and mailed them back. The only communication in two years. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

He could still be angry, but why? Could it be because I never begged him to come back and I've always known where he is? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 08/02/04 03:56 AM
Relady

If it's up to you, then by all means do whatever is in your power to be friendly and sociable. There are some out there who no matter how well we treat them they will continue to hold onto their bitterness and resentment. That... is their choice.

Much like EC I have tired my best to part on friendly terms with my former but at times it seems that she would rather have her hurt and anger then treat each other with respect for the sake of the children.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/02/04 11:37 AM
Relady
I know I don’t have the divorce experience -yet- to draw on, but here’s my 2cents worth about your question, with some food for thought...

If you write or call him, what would you say? "I’m sorry"? What was the tone of the letter you sent with the divorce papers? Is it possible that letter was enough because it conveyed the olive branch you're hoping to extend to him? If you had additional contact through letter or phone, would that affect him any way?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Relady said:
I don't want him to think I'm trying to initiate anything </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I recall correctly (and I may be very wrong)that whole time after he left, you did try to contact him a little bit...but he didn't think you were trying to initiate anything those times either, did he (even though you WERE wanting to work on things)? So it's quite possible he wouldn't think that now, either. Could be, he's just obtuse! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

What are the chances of you two running into each other? Is your town small? Do you have the same friends? Do you go to the same church like TH? These factors may help decide if another point of contact to "end on a friendly note" is necessary.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/03/04 12:08 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone had a wonderful weekend and thank you for your input.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I recall correctly (and I may be very wrong)that whole time after he left, you did try to contact him a little bit...but he didn't think you were trying to initiate anything those times either, did he (even though you WERE wanting to work on things)? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have never tried to contact him because I knew I would only start to beg and get my feelings hurt. I sort of left him to God. We have never spoken in two years! I decided that if he wanted to work on things, he would surely let me be the first to know. He did contact my pastor a few times, that was about it.

The letter I sent him about the divorce was 'businesslike' with my signature and his letter to me was the same.

The six month waiting period will end in Sept. I have a final paper to sign to have the judge grant the D. The court will send him a copy.

I'm not necessarily interested in being his friend, because that will probably never happen unless God intervenes. I do want him to know I wish him only the best.

We are at opposite ends of LA and would probably never run into each other unless God was in it!

At this point, I am definitely not interested in reconciliation whether he would entertain the thought or not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Although, I can't totally dismiss what God would want to do, He would have to come in person to tell me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/03/04 01:21 AM
Hi all,

Hope everyone had a good weekend. I was down with some sort of stomach flu this weekend... but I'm back up and running.

relady...

I'm running about the same as you and EC, and personally I don't think I would want it any other way. I haven't seen, nor spoken to my exW for about 2-1/2 yrs... and most of my kids, except one (saw her briefly by accident about a year ago), have no desire to communicate with her as well.

What is there really to say, or do?

I don't know all the fine points of the state of each others actual "M", or lack there of. But IMO, sometimes you need to disassociate yourself from someone who has caused you a lot of pain. In most instances, and if given the chance... they will continue on right where they left off... that's if you allow them to still be a part of your life.

I'm not speaking about everyones situation... but there are the exceptions where your better off not communicating with them at all, depending on the nature of what all transpired to get you were you are now.

You can forgive them for what they did, and forgive yourself as well... but you don't have to have them as part of your life, unless you feel that they have truly shown remorse for what they have done... or your just asking for more problems if you do.

When the trust that you have given someone that you truly loved with all your heart is broken, shattered, or whatever verb you want to put in there... IMHO, it's over about 80% of the time.

Yes... it would be nice to know what caused them to do the things they did in order to possibly correct your mistakes that may or may not have led them to ruin a "M".

"But, there is "no excuse for an affair", plain and simple... none.

It would take more than a miracle for me to even want to think about having any kind of a relationship with my exW.

She has been, and still is nothing but trouble, and IMHO, she probably always will be. I want myself to be as far away from her on a one on one basis as I can get... and my children can decide for themselves what kind of relationship they want with their mother... they are all old enough to make that choice for themselves.

I know I may sound bitter... and I may be. But after 2-1/2 yrs. of being away from this person... I'm still dealing with the ripple effect of what she left behind. I really just want her and all of her garbage out of my life... I don't think that is to much to ask.

EC...

Thanks for the encouragement... it is appreciated.

I'm going to take my time... and I agree with what you said. I don't plan on making another mistake that ends in "D".

Trusting HIm...

I agree with the others... your going to have to finish the rest of the story. It was a nice gesture on your former's part.

What do you think prompted her to do that?

Petvet...

Are you going over there for a vacation, or is it business?

For the record... my exW married some guy that is as old as her dad from what I've heard... so go figure.

My exW's life, has gotten to the point where it's so ridicules, it's not even really worth the time to waste discussing it anymore... it's that sad.

All I can do is pray for her, and sometimes it takes a lot of effort to do that anymore... but I still do.


avondale...

You are holding up well it seems, both you and relady.

Any news from your "H", at this point?

Well I hope everyone has a good week this week. Can you believe, that we are almost into the fall season already. This year seems to have just shot by.

I guess time flies when your having fun! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> LOL!!!

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ August 02, 2004, 08:44 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/04/04 05:30 AM
WELLLLLLL
I got a call at home from H yesterday afternoon. I had previously suggested he go into the backyard sometime during the day to see it's condition (it's overgrown really bad, unlike front yard, which is marginally better). He wanted to know if this was a good time to look at yard. I said OK, come on over and immediately regretted it (house was messy, my clothes were not perfect, etc...). Anyway, he saw the yard, agreed we needed to do something, and we discussed a few other things that should obviously be done before selling the house. I still haven't decided what to do (sell or stay), but am looking at a house later this week. Anyway, one thing he mentioned was some "capital gains" tax rule about having to live in the house 2 of last 5 years. What do y'all know about that? By his estimation, he has to file by July 2005 (3 years after he moved out) or else he forfeits waiving this capital gains tax rule. And get this - the main reason he has been moving so slowly to Divorce is because he didn't want to deal with his dissertation and divorce at the same time. It's all about HIM! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Sorry, just had to vent!

<small>[ August 03, 2004, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/03/04 10:38 PM
Hi all,

avondale...

The sad truth is, that with most WSs... it usually is all about them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">QUOTE BY AVONDALE:

one thing he mentioned was some "capital gains" tax rule about having to live in the house 2 of last 5 years.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe that is a true statement that your "H" brought up. You do have to live in your place of residence for at least 2 years... or you have to pay capital gains tax on any equity/profit you get in the year that you sell your home.

IMO, you won't have to pay it... if you file single in the year that you sell it... because it has been your residence, and you live there... but your "H" probably will have to pay it... unless he lies to the IRS about his current residence status.

Petvet and relady can probably elaborate on it more fully... but that is my understanding of the capital gains rule concerning the selling of your home.

If he has been gone for more than 2 years from his residence he may have to pay the capital gains tax... but there may be some loop hole someone knows about.

Hope everyone is having a good day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/04/04 12:18 AM
Hi All,

Hope all is well.

Avondale

Yes, there is a capital gains rule that states you must live in your home 2 years out of the last 5 years to avoid paying taxes.

What is the address he uses on his tax returns? Are you still filing jointly? That will make a difference.

As a married couple you will still have an exclusion of $500,000 equity free and clear of taxes. If you take the exclusion it would only be $250,000. In certain cases the IRS will allow a reduced exclusion amount in cases of divorce or legal separation for the relocated spouse.

Your H is right if his 5 year period is up next year, then if you decide to sell he will be ok, if not he will have to pay.

If you decide to stay, no problem. Although it appears to be in his best interest if you sell.

Petvet will probably be able to add more.

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/04/04 01:57 AM
Thanks for your input!

We file taxes married, filing separately (although in 2003 I think I filed head of household because son lived here long enough). His legal residence is his physical address, not our home.

We bought the house 22 years ago for $80k, have done additions during that time totaling maybe $40-50k, and the tax value is now $289k but I think that's too high and I've asked for a re-evaluation. So how do I figure out what is gain for me if I buy out his share or we sell it together? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> What if I buy out his share and then sell a few years down the road - how much do I pay then? Arrrghhh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

<small>[ August 03, 2004, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/04/04 03:05 AM
Hi All,

Avondale

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We bought the house 22 years ago for $80k, have done additions during that time totaling maybe $40-50k, and the tax value is now $289k but I think that's too high and I've asked for a re-evaluation. So how do I figure out what is gain for me if I buy out his share or we sell it together? What if I buy out his share and then sell a few years down the road - how much do I pay then? Arrrghhh
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whatever you owe on the property is subtracted from the current value. Ex. If you still owe $20,000, Your equity would be $269,000. As long as you're still married your one time tax free exemption would be $500,000, so there would be no taxes on your profit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now, if you buy your husband out, you will have to give him $134,500. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> You would then have to qualify for the loan plus the $20,000 you still owe. Otherwise, you would have to sell and he takes his half and you take your half.

If you decide to buy him out and sell later, you would still be exempt from paying taxes on $250,000 of your equity.

Hope that helps.

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/04/04 11:46 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: I will do some checking concerning the capital gains issue with the property. If I were you, I would not sell the property until after the divorce. You will need to get an appraisal (private, hush hush deal) to get a value on the property to best make a decision. I would probably get the house refinanced. That's what I just did to settle the divorce mess and give him his equitable share based on the divorce judgement. What's not going in your favor is that rates are going up. I'll get back with you on this.

Wallace: Yes, seeing grandpa with ex was a shock.

EC: Does your ex have grounds for more money?

Relady: What's the purpose for contacting your H? He has had over a year to contact and have decided not to. What is there to talk abbout?

Me: I had good vacation. The Imperial Palace is off the chain.

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/05/04 05:21 AM
Hi All,

Hey, it's almost the weekend again. I was planning to take the day off and go to the beach, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> but work prevailed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Wallace

Did you read the thread about the three year relationship? And have you taken Harley's questionnaire 'choosing the right one to marry'?
They both might be of interest to you.

Petvet

You do ask the hard questions!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I haven't really thought it through. You're right, we haven't talked in two years so it is a mute point.

How about if I send a letter with Chapter 1 of our Marriage and then end it with The End. Then type 'the rest of the book cancelled for lack of interest'!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Oh well, just a thought.

Avondale, WGTT, EC, L2B, TH and everyone else, Have a great day.

relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/04/04 07:01 PM
Hi All,

Hope everything is going well...

Petvet - To answer your question " Does exw have grounds to go after more money? I think she may be looking looking at this law....The courts have the choice to lower or increase an already existing order regardless.


61.14 Enforcement and modification of support, maintenance, or alimony agreements or orders.--

(1)(a) When the parties enter into an agreement for payments for, or instead of, support, maintenance, or alimony, whether in connection with a proceeding for dissolution or separate maintenance or with any voluntary property settlement, or when a party is required by court order to make any payments, and the circumstances or the financial ability of either party changes or the child who is a beneficiary of an agreement or court order as described herein reaches majority after the execution of the agreement or the rendition of the order, either party may apply to the circuit court of the circuit in which the parties, or either of them, resided at the date of the execution of the agreement or reside at the date of the application, or in which the agreement was executed or in which the order was rendered, for an order decreasing or increasing the amount of support, maintenance, or alimony, and the court has jurisdiction to make orders as equity requires, with due regard to the changed circumstances or the financial ability of the parties or the child, decreasing, increasing, or confirming the amount of separate support, maintenance, or alimony provided for in the agreement or order. A finding that medical insurance is reasonably available or the child support guidelines in s. 61.30 may constitute changed circumstances. Except as otherwise provided in s. 61.30(11)(c), the court may modify an order of support, maintenance, or alimony by increasing or decreasing the support, maintenance, or alimony retroactively to the date of the filing of the action or supplemental action for modification as equity requires, giving due regard to the changed circumstances or the financial ability of the parties or the child.

Take Care
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 08/06/04 05:04 AM
PetVet

Biloxi for a couple of days! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I can't say that I've ever been there. But. . . my former had planned a suprise birthday trip for us there bacn in the summer of 2001. To bad she never told me until after the fact.

But. . . glad that you had a good time while there. Hopefully every thing else is going good for you.

EC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> arrearage, emancipated and 61.14 Enforcement and modification of support, maintenance, or alimony agreements or orders.--
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*chuckles* Had to go visit Webster to make sure I could speak. I'm assuming that your YD is now out of the former's care but you're still paying support for an arrearage.

It sounds like she may be able to do it but I am curious who's financial ability changed. If the YD is now out from under Mom her's definately increased and your's probably did not (unless of course you got a HUGE raise and forgot to tell me hoe to do the same <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

I sure hope it works out to your benefit.

relady

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> IMHO, when a wife has an affair and wants a divorce, she should forfeit her child support and also be declared unfit!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do want him to know I wish him only the best. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In that case, should you ever run into him then by all means be as pleasent as possible. Should you pursue him to let him know that? If your heart tells you not then let it go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How about if I send a letter with Chapter 1 of our Marriage and then end it with The End. Then type 'the rest of the book cancelled for lack of interest'!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Funny! I fell out of my chair reading that.

Avondale

I know absoutely nothing about tax laws and trying to browse the internet at 36k is so slow. Listen to the advice of the others.

It's all about HIM! I know the feeling and my heart goes out to you.

Wallace

Hate that stomach flu. Must have made it over here too as I was out for a couple of days with something. Glad you're feeling better.

You spoke well in your reply to relady and it even shed some insight on me and my former's contact...but...the 3 little ones throw a HUGE monkey wrench into the fire.

Sound Bitter? I do not think so. While I know our young ones play a huge role in my feelings and desire to reconcile I do feel that if there were no children involved I would have been shed of that relationship quite sooner.

Me

As Paul Harvey would say...

"Now, for the rest of the story."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She may have felt obligated to do the chores or something like that. I don't know what to make of situation. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You nor anyone here, the best we can do is consider it a blessing and go on with life. I've thought about the obligated thing and find it quite hard to believe tht after her actions over the last 2 years that she would feel obligated to do anything that would benefit me in any way.

I wonder what sparked that? Just my thoughts, I think it's something that's been in her heart to do for some time, and the opportunity presented it's self. You never know what to expect sometimes, hang in there.....

I would like to think so and only time will tell. I can assure you that this was the first thing that she has done that benefits or impacts me directly in a positive manner in well over 2 years. But...if you are familiar with Gary Chapman and "The Five Love Language's" she would fall under "Acts of Service. For her to do this could possibly indicate a softening. Who knows.

Part II

I actually think that was Part 2. It was probably what transpired prior to this gesture that may have lead up to it.

Our YD was baptised Sunday 2 weeks ago. If you all could have seen the smile and glowing face of her you hearts would have jumed with joy.

One of my former's co-workers attended and our YD went home with her that afternoon to spend the night. Since they work together our YD was to spend the day with her Mom on Monday. That did not last to long. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Monday morning former called and I could hear YD in the background. Apparently her and Mom had a disagreement at the store and it ended up in a battle of the wills. I think neither of them won. My former wanted to know if I was in a position to keep YD. She had planned on her staying with her at work but the altercation must have changed those plans.

Either way, my former arrrived at work and I took YD. My former began to explain what happened and made mention of arguments between her and YD Friday and Saturday evenings, that she (former) had cried herself to sleep Friday because of YD’s constant remarks. "I hate you", "leave me alone", "I don't love you" and probably quite a few more.

A, she's angry.

This has nothing to do with our divorce! She been this way for years! You know we've been washing her mouth out with soap since she could talk.

There's no need to get angry but YD is angry and you and I both would be foolish to think that our divorce has not made things hard for her. You and I were talking last Monday and I listened to how she was talking to you, very disrespectful, loud and demanding. Tuesday night when I had her I was explaining to her that she has to stop using that tone of voice and being disrespectful toward you. She said, "But Daddy, I’m just angry about BF."

This has nothing to do with BF!

(Former begins to cry so I say just go to work and we'll talk about picking up YD later today and close the car door.)

YD and I have a pretty good day and I take her home early for a nap before her Mom comes to pick her up. When she arrives I begin a conversation that I have been avoiding for some time. Basically saying that she and I have to put aside our differences, anger and bitterness for the sake of our children. In a nutshell I guess;

</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You and I have to put aside our bitterness and anger toward each other</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As Mother and Father we have to come together for the sake of our children</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They will one day treat their spouses just as they see us treat each other</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because we are divorced we are going to have to work 10 times harder to help them survive</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And probably several other areas were touched on.</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Former’s response.

We talked for almost an hour. She never came from behind the couch, just stood behind it and talked. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> She agreed on many items but offered up some justification and became defensive when the topic of divorce or boyfriends and girlfriends came up.

*chuckles*

After I told her again what YD had said last Tuesday evening she went into a detailed list of what YD sometimes tells her. "I think Daddy has a girlfriend", "I really like (female name) and I think Daddy does too", "(another female name) is really sweet and I think she likes Daddy".

I do have a life and I do try to include the children as much as possible. But, does YD ever say to you “Mommy, I’m angry at Daddy” or “I’m upset at Daddy” because of something we did or because of someone we spend time with?

No, but YD even invited BF to her baptism Sunday. And BF’s mom really wanted to see a Baptist baptism and she's never seen anyone baptised. How would you have felt if BF and his mom had been there Sunday?

Well. . . I would like to think that you would be kind enough to give me some advance notice the first couple of times that this happens. Yes,it would have been akward but I would have dealt with it. Boyfriends and girlfriends will be something that each of us will have to deal with and while uncomfortable or awkward at first I am quite sure that both of us will adjust and do what is best for our children.

But nothing to the extent of anything I do that makes YD angry or upset. My thoughts as former went through the list of women was that she was fishing but I only offered up the fact that I do have friends, both male and female that the children and I go out with sometimes.

In the end we did agree that it was something we would need to work on to help the children.

But.............................

I had the children Tuesday evening and we had a wonderful time. As I was tucking in YD I made a casual comment that if she wanted to invite Mom’s BF to her Baptism or anywhere else that it was fine with me. That she and I both are going to have to learn how to deal with other people in our lives.

Ouch!

YD shouted that she did not want to invite him anywhere. I attempted to explain to her that Mommy and I had talked and I already knew that she had wanted him to come to her baptism.

"I did not invite him! Mommy was talking to BF Friday night and she asked me if I wanted him to come. And he was telling her that she needed to get a grip on her children and not let them run so wild. Mommy got angry at him and started screaming and crying and that made me cry. I do not like it when they fight and I told her to just get off the phone and she started screaming at me. That made me mad and then I started screaming at her. We both cried ourselves to sleep that night."

Now I know when YD is not telling the truth by her actions. She typically begins making excuses, complaining about her legs hurting or saying that she is tired and just needs to go to sleep.

This child was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> that I was trying to put words into her mouth and did not like the idea that she had invited BF to anything.

So now a bit of the truth has been revealed about the weekend arguments and why YD feels the way that she does today. It also causes me to question if the conversation my former and I had Monday had any bearing at all or if it was just all hot air.

Which of course brings us up to the nice gestures on Wednesday.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/06/04 12:12 PM
Trusting - You made up for lost time with that post. That is a GREAT rest of the story! Very interesting and revealing! Your YD is caught in the middle if your former is willing to use her child like that. And I think it does probably explain the generous actions of your former in cleaning the house on Wednesday. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Petvet - You said Biloxi...then you mentioned Imperial Palace, which I thought was a casino/hotel in Las Vegas. Maybe it’s a chain...So how much money did you win? Hope you didn’t LOSE any...

EC - Sorry you’re having to deal with more legal junk. You deserve so much better. Any word from your daughters about a future visit to you?

Relady - Did you decide to not write a letter? Do you have a specific date for the divorce finalization? Keep us posted on that. I’ll be praying for you.

Leah - You are gonna have a lot of reading to do to catch up now! Hope your vacation is going well.

Me - Thanks again everyone for your input. Yesterday I met with a real estate agent to see one particular house. Prior to seeing it I had been praying for God to make it clear to me what to do (stay or move elsewhere). Well, this house was similar to mine in size and cost yet maintained by HOA. It needed work (like mine does) and also has additional cost of $330/mo for the HOA dues. In all honestly, emotions aside, it just wasn’t any better than what I already have and probably would cost more. So my decision (as of this moment - subject to change by a fickle middle-aged woman) is to try to buy out H’s share of this house. He and I will meet next week to talk more seriously about financial stuff, and I’m sure the house might come into our talk. Also, I have an appt. for an appraisal next week, and H doesn’t know about it. I think I will also suggest to H for us to get a home inspection done (share cost) prior to selling...that will help confirm to me what I’m in for, in possible future costs, by staying here. I’ll do that anyway, even if he doesn’t want to share the cost.

WGTT - I haven’t forgotten you...please post an update!

I hope everyone has a great weekend. My son is here and he's going to mow the yard for me. Yippee! LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/06/04 04:49 PM
Hi All,

Just dropping quick line to say hello...

The last couple of days I had a chance to watch the Oprah show and Dr. Phil show..


Oprahs was on married women (teachers) who had affairs with minors (students) and a teacher who posed nude...

On Oprah, I marvelled at one woman who was in her 30's and said she wanted the affair because she was now able to do everything she missed out on at 16. Her lover was 17 at the time now 22. I marvelled because it was though if I was watching my exww. This lady was so bold and brazen and unashamed...

Dr. Phil's was on a woman who had 5 affairs...and a man who had 2 affairs, still hiding the facts...

Once again I marvelled because I remember exww serial affairs, more sorry she got caught and still creeping around...

Take Care
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/07/04 01:36 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: You are making the right moves. I am going to point you in the right direction as for as IRS capital gains stuff is concern. Right now, I am working with extensions that are due next weekend. There are two Imperial Palaces, one in Vegas and the other in Biloxi. Oh! I betted so little, I could not tell you whether I lost anything or not.

EC: Your ex is fighting over beans. Let her try. If she is unsuccessful, try to get attorney fees and an order from the court for her to stop these pestering court filings.

Relady: Beginning and End storyline to H, what's the point. Put your energies elsewhere.


Me: Living life!

Later.
Trusting: I love fairy tale environs like Biloxi and Vegas.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/08/04 07:11 AM
Hey All,

It's late! I'm just getting in from a jazz concert and still wide awake. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

TH

Thank you for your comments and the end of the story, or is it the middle? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My niece disliked her mothers boyfriend because he would talk about her to her mother like she wasn't even there!! She is seventeen and felt he was looking at her inappropriately. She now lives with her father, thank God. Daughters really need their fathers. Make sure you give her lots of affection. Take her to the best places so she won't be impressed by the first boyfriend that takes her to McDonalds!

Avondale

In California the wait is 6 months and 1 day. So, I'll be there early on the 3rd, since it is the start of a long weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

No, I won't be writing the letter, I'm just going to work at putting it behind me.

Petvet

Sometimes I think it is still a little hard to believe that you can go from 'married' to 'divorced' without any conversation other than 'sign here'! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I don't spend alot of time thinking about it, I'm too busy for that. Just one of those mysteries of life.

relady
Posted By: country mama Re: Tough Love - 08/10/04 05:53 AM
HI everybody, I posted to the wrong place, but here is where I intended to be.
I have spend several days reading this thread- whew! I actually had to skip several.

My husband told me in January that he didn't love me anymore and that our marriage was over. He still was in the home on weekends to see the kids, which was normal because he works out of town all week every week anyway. He finally moved out a month ago and told me he was seeing an attorney. How long does it take to serve somebody papers? I though it was quick. Also, when did some of your WS take off their wedding rings? Mine is still wearing his. i want to think it's a good sign, but I've had several "Wrong" good sign in the past 6 months so maybe I'm wishful thinking??
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/11/04 12:33 AM
Country Mama ,
Welcome to the Tough Love thread. Yes, I would think it is a good sign when a WS doesn't take off their wedding ring. Your post didn't have a lot of background info on it, so it's not clear to me what you personally want...do you want to stay married? Divorce laws vary by state, so there is no "set" time length about how long it takes to get served. Also, your husband may have to save up the money to get a lawyer. Both of these could help you stall for time if you want to work on your marriage. Could you give us a little bit of your marital or personal history? And you may want to consider posting in "General Questions" forum too. They have a lot of traffic there <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 08/11/04 02:34 AM
HI EVERYONE,

You all have been busy writing. Glad to see everyone is doing okay. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TRUSTING HIM,

That was quite a story about your former wife. It certainly was a nice gesture and would have been especially nice if it wasn't guilt motivated. From everything you write you seem to handle her, your children and the entire situation with such grace. You are doing really well. I hope your situation continues to get better as the days go on.

WALLACE,

I hope things are becoming clearer for you. How are you and your girlfriend doing? Have you resolved the big "M" question of timing? I've been thinking of you and praying for you.

AVONDALE,

It seems you're working hard to get all your ducks in a row and have given this house situation a lot of thought. I'm sure you will make the right decision about how to handle it all.

RELADY,

I think you've come to the right conclusion about the letter to your husband. It does seem you're ready to move forward. I think it's great that you can do so with such a great attitude. You seem bitter free which is such a wonderful testimony of God's work in your life.

PETVET, E.C., WGTT,

Hope you're all doing well. Glad you had a nice weekend away, Petvet.


ME,

Vacation went well. The weather was sunny, the lake beautiful. I had a great time with my sister and brothers and all the other extended family that came to visit. The girls had a ball playing with their cousins all week. It was really nice! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Since returning I've been very busy with various projects around the house. Today I was working outside all day. Trying to get everything clean and organized. Hope you're all having a good week. Take care.
Posted By: country mama Re: Tough Love - 08/11/04 03:42 AM
Hi,
Okay, here's a bit more of my story. We have been together 14 years, married for 9 in June, and have a 3 and 1 year old. Yes, I do want to stay married, but I guess I'm just resigned to the fact that he doens't want to be. I've received MANY mixed signals, or so I thought, but he has not really wavered much on his opinion, which is that his feelings for me are gone and he can't get them back, and sees no point in doing anything to try to get them back, we're just too far gone. I"ve suspected OW, but have no proof and nothing substantial. I spent the first 6 months trying to talk to him about the marriage and what we could do to change things, but he had no interest and my discussions with him actually aggravated him more. I guess that was Plan a? So now I am doing more of plan B, as much as I can since I still him almost every weekend when he sees the kids. He has told me that he has seen an attorney, but that was a month ago. He has the money, no problem there. He has not ever said the word "divorce" to me during any of this, just that the marriage is over and he plans to pursue that avenue.
My other sticky situation is that we sold our house last year, have been saving and searching for another, and I have a place I want. BUT, I've been a stay at home mom for 3 years and have no income, so I have to buy this house with him or I can't get a loan. Any advice on that end? Thanks, Country Mama
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/11/04 06:16 PM
Hello All,


Welcome Country Momma. I read your story, but I'm concerned if you really dug down to the problem yet? Not for just the sake of putting your marriage back together, but learning where things went wrong so even if there was a DV, would you repeat the same things again in the next relationship? Not saying anything was your fault, but Plan A is working on you? Has he noticed anything diff about you that causes him to pause and rethink his decision?

It don't sound like your marriage has to be over and it's worth a try. The only way to be effective is to get the facts and know if there is an OW. Exposure will bring peace....Don't walk through the door of DV if you don't have to, it's not what people think, unless you're getting abused or something....It's better to rebuild than to tear down if all possible...

To answer your question how long does the process take? As Avondale said, every State is different. I'll give you an example of what I've experinced from FL ....

First there is a petition filed..
Then you get a copy served by a Sheriff and have to file an answer in so many days otherwise you default....

Then after your answer is sent back to the court you are notified of the court date. This whole process could take up to 3-6 months, it's all based on how fast the clerk of court is moving and how fast the Sheriff is moving and if there are attorneys involved,kids and property, etc...

Then once you get your court date, that date could be up to 6-12 months away, it depends how busy the court is.....


Me: Not much new....I found out that exw and the Judge have been conversing secretly off the record trying to get around the law...As I said it's a crooked court system...They're trying to get me in a hearing without going through all the legal procedure, thinking I'm going to do as they say...so much for that...

Anyway, in my legal studies, I've learned a new legal term. This legal term is so powerful that courts are starting to abolish it because it can stop some legal processes involving money dead in it's tracks, it called " Laches". You can use it or become a victim of it, depending on your issue. It's a two edge sword...

Take Care
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/11/04 09:28 PM
Hey all,

Life has been very busy for me the last few weeks... and it doesn't seem to be getting any slower paced anytime soon.

Country Mama...

Welcome to the "Tough Love" thread, sorry that your here... but it's a good place to be when your in the circumstance your in.

I think EC, summed it up pretty good about the timing and such, of how long it all can take.

I have a question for you... why did you and your "H" decide to sell your house and not purchase another one as of yet?

Have you spoken to an attorney as of yet. Your "H" may not have said the "D" word yet... but I would prepare for it anyway, just in case. It's better to be prepared for anything that may come your way rather than getting caught off guard if he decides he is going to go through with the "D".

relady...

I have not read the thread you spoke of, but I have read all of the Harley info, on this site, and then some... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have a pretty good idea where your going with this... and you maybe right... I may need to rethink the whole situation before it is all said and done with. In fact, we almost broke it off last week, because she says she doesn't get a chance to see as much of me as she would like.

I told her, this is my situation here, and it appears that this is your situation there... and neither one us can make any changes right now in order to see each other as much as she would like to. It was basically stated to her that I will try to make more time for us to see each other, but I can't gaurantee it, and if she can't live with that... then it's time to call it a day.

Long story short... we are still together, and I am trying to see her more often (juggling my schedule), and the ironic part about it... is we are getting along much better since I made some adjustments to my schedule. But like anything in life... there are no guarantees on anything.

Our problems kick in when I'm not around her 24/7.

When I'm around... everything is fine! When I'm not around her for more than a couple of days... that's when my problems start up.

She feels that I'm not in love with her at times. If I'm not seeing her or with her all the time, she starts to feel unloved... but that is not the case at this particular time.
I have quite a bit still on my plate, that hopefully will wrap itself up in the next several months... and there is nothing I can do to change that.

She has been talking about getting "M" in June of next year... which is still one year earlier than was previously planned... so we will see how it goes and take it from there.

EC...

I've heard that legal term before... give me more of an explanation of what the meaning of it is.

I would talk with my attorney about your exW's secret meetings with the Judge, and see what he says about it all.

Leah...

Glad to hear that you and your family had a nice vacation. It's always nice to take a breather from it all.

I'm going to head out during the Labor day weekend, and take a few additional days of vacation, and see if I can't do the same as you did.

Trusting Him...

I'm glad you gave us the rest of the story.

IMHO, I think the children are the ones to suffer the most when a "D" occurs. IMHO, it appears that your daughter has been put in a position that she doesn't want to be in... and is angry, frustrated, and confused.

I would only invite immediate family to the Baptisim, as it is a sacred event, not to be in anyway tarnished by having outsiders (BF) coming to the religous event that your daughter appears to not want there after all.

Kids can become very emotional, and I will give you an example. My YD lashed out the other night about her mother out of no where. It has been 2-1/2 years and she really hasn't commented about her mother in either a negative or positive mode, until the other night.

She cried and let it all out... about how her Mom just left her, and all of the rest of the family and hasn't even attempted to her or her brother and sister since.
She has a very legitimate grip... as there were no soothing words I could give to her. Even I can't understand how a Mom can just up and leave her children... so there were no explanations for my exW's actions coming from me... as I know of none.


All you can do is try your hardest to be there for them when they need you, and try to make as easy for them with as little disruption in their life as possible... is my best guess.

Petvet, avondale, WGTT, and everyone else...

Hope your day and week is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: What AmIDoing? Re: Tough Love - 08/11/04 10:38 PM
Hey ya'll

I'm new to this board, I've been hanging out at GQII since May. There is no way I can go through this whole thread, so I was wondering, can somebody give me the gist of it? That would be awesome! Thanks!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/12/04 03:07 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone is doing well.

Country Mama

Welcome to the 'tough love' thread, it is exactly what it says, so leave your 'sensitivity' at the door. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My other sticky situation is that we sold our house last year, have been saving and searching for another,pa and I have a place I want. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you put the money from the sale of your home to an account that requires both signatures for withdrawal? I have seen this many times, the husband convinces the wife to sell the home long before a divorce is mentioned and the money is spent. Beware!

L2B

Thank you for your kind words, read below! I'm glad you enjoyed your family and your vacation.

WAID

Welcome to the thread. There is no way we can sum up 135 pages of our life in a paragraph. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

ME

This will be long. This is the result of my spending time on 'God's Couch'!

I told you about the old friend I discovered a few weeks ago and he called three and four times a day! Well, in our last conversation, I asked him to not call me again. He said I hurt his feelings and did as I requested!

After one week of not hearing from him, I wondered why he went away so easy!! Imagine That! So it is true, when you find yourself chasing someone and they stop, you look behind to find out what happened to them.

So, I decided to call him! Imagine my shock when he wouldn't take my call, of course there is caller id. To be sure I also called on an unidentified number of which he answered. I hung up. Now, Why did I do that when I have no desire to have a relationship with this person? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Was I being my usual 'controlling self? And he was in control by not calling? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I had no idea, so I when to God who knows me better than I know myself. I asked Him to help me sort this out, so that I could continue working on myself.

After 15 minutes, no patience without an answer, I went about my day. Still asking the question.

The next day, I caught the last 5 minutes of a program on the radio called, 'Living on the Edge'. They were talking about growing through divorce.

The Host, Chip Ingram was talking about not dating or anything for 18 months after your divorce regardless of separation time.

He further stated, 'that we are so needy because of all the rejection, that even the 'telemarketer' on the phone would be welcomed if they paid us a compliment!! So, I had my answer although I thought I had it all together.

He said, 'When we choose a person from this position, as we get whole over time, that person is no longer desirable for us and we wonder how we got back into the same situation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

For the next few days, I fought the urge to call and make him talk to me and now the desire is completely gone!

Ask God a question and you'll get the answer, you may not like it, but it will be there. As for me, I'm sticking with God! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I hope this experience is beneficial to someone.

You can hear the broadcast at: www. oneplace.com Go to Broadcast archives, the dates were 8/9 and 8/10. Growing through divorce


Wallace

Why do you continue in this pattern? I'm really afraid that you will be the one hurt in this situation. Your Girlfriend has issues!!

And you're jumping through all the hoops!!

I think your 'rose-colored' glasses need cleaning!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale, Petvet, WGTT, EC

Hope all is well.

relady
Posted By: country mama Re: Tough Love - 08/12/04 05:03 AM
Wallace,
We sold out home withoutbuying another one because we are VERy picky and just havent' found one yet. We spend all our time last summer looking, and were even seriously looking at xmas time, one month before revelation.
His only reasoning for all of this is that we've grown apart and can't grow back together.
I DO want to save my marriage, but since he has moved out Idon't have any opportunity to do plan A and so am doing Plan B as well as I can.
I was counseled that I need to make him miss me and that will be difficult because we were together so little even before he moved out.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/12/04 11:55 PM
What Am I Doing - In a nutshell, this thread was begun by Petvet (who still posts here regularly) and was about the “Love Must Be Tough” book by James Dobson. There are 7-8 posters here, and we are all in various stages of marriage/separation/divorce. You are welcome to post here too...but if you want to post here bad enough, you'll read the thread! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> We have a minimum requirement of reading 10 of the first 50 pages, 5 of the pages between 50-75, 7 of the pages between 75-100, 10 of the pages between 100-124, and read page 126 to the end. Doing this will help you know us, your fellow posters, and the philosophy on this thread (which you may or may not agree with). Then if there is an issue/question you want more feedback on than the few of us can provide, make a new thread on the D/D board.

Country - I replied on your “I’m new” thread.

Leah - Welcome back! Did your husband go on your trip too? I hope so. And if I recall correctly, you’re a teacher (?) so if I’m right, you’re going to be busy soon. And if I’m wrong, it won’t be the first time, LOL

Relady - That is quite some story! I am surprised that you called him in the first place. I’m glad you were able to fight the urge to call him again. It will be interesting to see if he calls back after being ignored by you, too. I’m glad you are seeing where there needs to be less of you and more of Him. We all need to evaluate ourselves in that way.

Wallace - I agree with Relady. Your GF has issues - controlling being one of them. Think about this: What if you are using these years to become what she wants, when in reality, that isn’t what God wants? (Maybe because He wants you with someone else, or no one else?) Anyway, food for thought. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC - “laches” is an unreasonable delay or negligence in pursuing a right or claim; can be asserted as a defense to a claim. I have no clue why your ExW would think YOU were delaying things. Were you doing anything to stall the divorce (and prolong your chances for marriage improvement)?

Trusting - I saw on the re-virginity thread you were having a bad day....I’m sorry. You are in my prayers, honestly. I pray for everyone on this thread regularly.

Petvet - Did you get those extensions worked out? Hope you have a great weekend. Are you going to get any of Hurricane Charley?

Me - Meeting an (hush, hush) appraiser for the house tomorrow afternoon. Also getting ready for Hurricane Charley. We lose power at the drop of a hat around here, LOL.

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

<small>[ August 12, 2004, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/13/04 01:01 AM
Hey All,

It's almost the weekend again, not that it matters with my career! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

Believe me, no one was more surprised than I was. That's why I had to go to God's Couch. When I find myself doing things out of character for me, it requires a bit of analyzing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I've learned to do that a lot lately.

Make sure your hush, hush appraisel is just that. It can be required for court purposes if found out.

Hey , also, how did you determine so many pages of this and so many pages of that?
What a memory!

relady
Posted By: What AmIDoing? Re: Tough Love - 08/13/04 01:12 AM
Thanks for the welcome...I'll check out the thread in the required manner!!! I haven't read the book, but it sounds right up my alley. I am dealing with a hardcore, spoiled brat, cake-eating Fogman!!! I need all the help I can get!

Did somebody mention milk and cookies????
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 08/13/04 03:51 AM
Avondale

Now you tell me the rules! After I read the ENTIRE thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I agree with you, YD is caught in the middle. The scary part is that I really think the former has no idea the position she is putting our daughter in.

Glad to hear that you have a hush hush coming in and hope everything turns out ot be in your best intrest.


EC

I watched some of those, cried a little bit too.

Legal Studies? Keep it up and I may hire you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Which side of the sword are you on?

PetVet

Keep on living life, that is good.

relady

Sure hope you enjoyed the concert. It's been a long time since I listened to Jazz.

I think it's more like The NeverEnding Story. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

God's couch? Seems you and I both spent a little time there. It sure is nice when He answers and we actually hear it.


Country Mama

I'll just say WELCOME. Glad you stopped by. Like the others said, a lot easier to rebuild than to start over if the two or you are both willing to work at it.

Praying that all works out for your family.

Wallace

I would just say walk lightly. I am no where near ready to even consider another lady in my life but after reading your comments I think I would really question the direction of the relationship.

But I'm probably gun shy too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Oh you are so right when you say it is the children who really get hurt. I know that they can recover pretty quickly but I think that also depends on what they see their parents doing.

And...there are times when we have no soothing words or explanations will come. Days like that I just hold and comfort them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Welcome What AmIDoing.


Avondale was correct, bad day today but only because it's close to payday. It always hurts when I see how broke I am now and with the realization that a 2nd job is going to be required it sort of bums me out. But that's OK me, God and a friend managed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Former wife and her actions? Well,none since her last display. Some thought she has felt that way for a while, others motiviated by guilt or some other motive.

I'll just say she keeps me confused. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Question

Bearing in mind that we definately have a different view of where we are in life today.

I attempt/try to include my former with the more important part of the children's life should something major happen. Like the night our YD asked, "Daddy, what do I have to do to be saved?" Afterwards I wanted her Mother to know so I called to let her know.

Saturday when I picked the children up our YD was quick to tell me that Mom was going to BF's house to give him some new pictures of YD taken while on vacation.

I guess it's back to Wallace's mother thing. I just can't understand her actions. Is it normal for a Mother to have a desire to give pictures of YD to BF, and if so why only YD and not the entire family? I guess it's alredy been established that she has/is putting/using YD in the middle of all of this.

ZZzzzzzz.......time for bed. Night all.

Praying that EVERYONE else is doing well.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/14/04 01:40 AM
Hi All,

I am on the run (what's new) got a full schedule tonight, and this weekend... but thought I would drop a quick line or two.

What am I doing...

Welcome to the "Tough Love" thread, and yes, it is tough love in this thread.

avondale hit on some key areas (Bless her heart, she's my little sister), and it would be a good idea to read up on some of our backgrounds... that way if we come across a certain way... it will give you some insight of where we are coming from.

There is some good reading in there I'm sure... as we, or at least one of us... have all dealt with just about everything in a relationship that you can possibly think of.

I know the type of person your dealing with by the sounds of it... I was "M" to one for a number of years.

Read as much of it as you can tolerate... and keep us posted as to what is happening in your life when you can.

Country Mama...

I am going to quote relady here... because what she posted, is in fact many times true.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quote by relady:

Did you put the money from the sale of your home to an account that requires both signatures for withdrawal? I have seen this many times, the husband convinces the wife to sell the home long before a divorce is mentioned and the money is spent. Beware!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope in fact this is not the case... but this happens all the time, and relady in all of her wisdom, may be on to something.

To follow a spouse that is saying the type of things that I'm hearing from your spouse... IMHO, he may have been planning this circumstance for quite sometime. By the sounds of it... he is working a pattern here, and I would look very carefully and discreetly at what you have going here. Don't make any acusations, and work your Plan B., because I believe it is in fact in order.

If you know my background... my exW worked for well over 4 years plus, to finally finish everything off.

As relady has stated... I would beware!

relady...

I just got new reading glasses the other day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> LOL.

Yes... she tries to be the controller, and she most definetly has issues. I'm still sorting through all of it... to see just exactly what issues we are in fact dealing with.

I'll only junp through hoops for so long... and if things don't get better? Well... that's when I back up my Circus tent and go home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

avondale...

You and relady both are saying the same thing... and that has got my attention (BIG TIME)!

I have read, a number of places.... that you should wait at least 18 months to 2 years before dating again... in order to get back in touch with yourself.

When we go through what we have gone through... we in fact desire attention from another person in order to validate oursleves to a degree that we find acceptable. When we find that person... we become somewhat attached... it happens to the best of us.

After 2 years.. this may be the case for myself, but as time wanes... I keep looking at it through a new perspective (I got new reading glasses now, and I can see much clearer). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

In other words... I'm not really worried about being hurt again... after the loss of my "M", I have become so thick skinned, I don't believe anyone could possibly hurt me again.

I have become that hardcore with my feelings.

I don't think I could ever leave myself that vulnerable with my feelings ever again. So I guard them very closely, so as not to get hurt like that again. I know it's not fair... it's just the way it is at this particular time.

I'm watching this relationship very closely... and if I get to the point where I think I have had enough... then I will call it a day for good.

Trusting Him...

I'm sorry to hear that your feeling down in the dumps... would you like to tell us about what is really troubling you at this point in time? Maybe we ca add some insight to it all.

Concerning your last post about your former.

Your former is trying to validate what she has going with her B/F. In other words... she is looking for acceptance (unfortunately from your YD).

This is very typical, and it's very unfortunate that your former has decided to work on your YD. I

In your former's mind... she must think that she is the most impressionable. She is trying to validate what she has going... my exW tried unsuccessfully to do the same thing with my YD.

Hang tight, and go with the flow... because it does get interesting as time goes on.

Well it's time for me to go out on my dinner date with my G/F, she just called and said she is ready.

Leah...

How is everything going after your vacation?

Was your "H" there?

Your in my prayers as well... in fact everyone is...
Let us know how things are going when you can.

Petvet, EC, and everyone else...

Hope your day went well , and your weekend goes just as good.

Have a good weekend everyone!

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ August 13, 2004, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 08/14/04 02:54 AM
HI FRIENDS,

WAID and C.MAMA,

A warm welcome to the thread. I am the semi-married one of the bunch. I'm sorry you both find yourself here. My H and I've been separated twice and are now living somewhat together. There have been OW in his history. I have three girls and am continually searching for the right thing to do. (A brief summary of me in case you haven't done "required reading") <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

TRUSTING HIM,

Sorry you're feeling down. Believe me I can relate- not for the same issues but with the on-going circumstances,I have to fight discouragement as well. I've been trying to focus on the right things and continue to plead for God's help. Just trying to do the next thing with a positive attitude.

As far as your wife's actions... I think it is so difficult to ever truly understand these folks. I use to spend hours trying to understand my H and what would motivate him to say and do the things he does. He tends to be so erratic and inconsistent. He can really stretch my thinking.

BUT WITH TIME I'VE LEARNED A VALUABLE LESSON...
People like my H and your former are quite impossible to figure out. It is best to utilize your time and energies else where. I mean that in the kindest way possible. I use to waste hours of analytical thought trying to understand him but I've come to accept we are two completely different people with different value systems and reasoning. We're now coming from different mindsets and I'm just not able to understand or value the way he thinks or operates.

I use to think, "If only he understood me and my thinking, he would certainly change because he would know how much his actions or words have hurt me." But that has never worked because he is not operating with the same value system of mutuality and good will. I'm striving to communicate with him and have a relationship but he is in a different world - It's very sadly all about him.

Am I making any sense? I understand what I'm trying to say but I'm not sure I'm communicating it very well. Anyhow,just my opinion based on some very frustrating years of attempted understanding. Take care Trusting Him. I hope you are having a better day!

WALLACE,

Glad to see you seem to be doing better than you were a couple of weeks ago. Please continue to keep those new "non-rose colored" glasses on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> We all are concerned for your relationship with GF and just want the best for you.

AVONDALE,

Thanks for the welcome back. You asked about my H coming on vacation. He did come with us part of the time. He brought his motorcycle with him and managed to spend a fair amount of time away from us. I think he'd go nuts to be with our family all week. A family man he is not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Hope the appraisal was what you hoped for. I've been praying for you and PETVET that you've weathered the storm okay.

RELADY,

Yes, you did surprise me with that story. But then again, I can certainly appreciate how you feel. When you haven't had much attention, we all are vunerable to the attentions of another. Even though I'm married, I'm very alone. So, I have to get on God's couch too. I have to ask him to fill all the voids that are in my heart and life. I have to keep looking to Him instead of chasing some temporary "man" solution. Keep keeping on.

Hi to E.C. and PETVET,

Hope both of you are doing well.

Hope everyone has a great weekend. Those in line with the hurricane, please let us know you're ok.

<small>[ August 14, 2004, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/17/04 10:14 AM
Hi all!

WAID and CountryMoma: I welcome you to this thread. The summary of this thread that you received from Avondale is pretty much the history of this thread. I'll be back later to chim in on your situations.

Hello to everyone else, Avondale, Relady, Wallace, WGTT, etc. I have to get ready for work. I have been very busy with tax extensions through yesterday.

I'm gone.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/18/04 12:01 AM
Hi All,
Not a lot going on here - yet. Got the appraisal and I must admit it is a LOT lower than I expected. I guess this is good, right? I will be meeting with H on Thursday evening; would appreciate prayers. I don't plan on getting into a discussion about the house specificially, but if he brings it up, I might test the waters about buying his share out and using this appraisal as my base price. I'll post a report afterward. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/18/04 10:17 AM
Hi all again!

Wallace: I'm glad that you have some new glasses with a clearer picture on your relationship with your GF. Things may become brighter now.

Avondale: I wish you luck at your meeting with your H. To be very honest with you, it seems like torture to go through these meetings with your H. You are one tough lady.

Me: I am doing well. I am trying to deal with kid going to a Catholic school for the first time. He does not want to do his homework. Mom hates the school and has relayed her feelings to kid, so I have to deal with this stuff. What can I say? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/18/04 04:10 PM
Hello, I have been going through losts of the old posts in this thread, and have read some really good advice.
My situation has been that my wife left home after I confronted her about the A. She still denies anything but being friends. She has been staying with one of her friends since. She called me 3 days after I confronted her, and said that her and OM decided to not be friends anymore. This happened because I let the OMW know what all I had found and she confronted him.

I know things haven't ended because they have been seen going to lunch together since, but my W has seemed confortable living seperated like this, but I am tired of it and not knowing where she is or what she is doing. I have done lots of praying, and have realized that I can make it without her if we divorce, but she hasn't wanted to make a decision. I have been all for trying to rebuild our marriage and have let that be known, but I have got nothing back in return from her. I am thinking that I am going to have to be the one to make the decision on whether or not to divorce.

I think I'm gonna talk to a lawyer today, and see what kinds of things I need to be doing or stuff I need to get together. I don't want to divorce her, but I can't continue on like this much longer, and I feel that ending it will help to end the continuing pain also.

I hope you all don't mind me posting here.

Here is a link to my story so far that I posted in the Just Found Out threads Background on my past few weeks

<small>[ August 18, 2004, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: sewsklov ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/18/04 08:25 PM
Sewsklov - Interesting screenname. I wonder if you listen to Klov radio? Anyway, on to your post. Anyone is welcome to post here. This is not a restricted thread, it was begun by Petvet about the book of the same title almost 3 years ago.

I read your previous posts on the Emotional Needs forum and it appears your W’s affair and subsequent separation are all fairly recent. In fact, I’ve been separated longer than you’ve been married! I’m sure if you read the old posts here at Tough Love that you realize we have all been separated for months/years before divorcing, and when we did, it was very much a last resort. We are all familiar with the book “Love Must Be Tough” by James Dobson, which I liken to a variation of Plan B here at Marriage Builders. Have you used Plan A? How about Plan B? IMHO, I don’t think you’ve had enough time to implement either one, and it’s possible you aren’t familiar with them. What have you done to work on your marriage since discovery of your wife’s “inappropriate actions”? Hardly three weeks has passed since then; subsequently, that is not enough time to work on your marriage. Have you seen a counselor individually or together? Talking to a lawyer is good, from the aspect of finding out what to expect, but if I can’t help but wonder if you’re acting (or re-acting) somewhat quickly to move on and end your marriage. Don’t give up so quickly!
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/19/04 03:47 AM
I am familiar with the book "Love Must be Tough" and have read it several times. My wife left me a letter today, and she is back to trying to blame me for our problems, still denying anythng but friends with OM, and saying she doesnt see anyway that our marriage can recover. She also said that she plans on speaking with a lawyer next week. I know it hasn't been a long seperation for us, and nowhere near the length of any one elses here but, It looks like divorce is on its way very soon, and I don't know that there are any plans to put into play now. Of course I have been wanting to work on things all along, but have had no cooperation from her side. I also know she has only been gone for a short period of time, but she wouldnt answer my calls and so I wrote her a letter letting her know that I wasnt happy with our living situation, and her being away, and that I wanted to know her intentions, and that I was gonna make it through whatever her decision was, but that I just wanted to know something instead of sitting and wondering.

Maybe my problem or seperation hasn't been long, but the problems have been going on for a long time, and it doesn't make my problem any less important to me, or doesn't make this any less painfull. I have been putting all my effort into resolving our problems long before I found the MB site, I hust regret that I didnt find it sooner, and would still hope for any and all support that I can get. Yes, I have been seen a counselor numerous times since she left.

Maybe I am reacting too quickly, but that is kinda why I am here and reading through and posting, because I am kinda stuck, and don't know what to try or do next. I can try to delay anything as far as divorce goes, and who knows she may not even go talk to a lawyer next week.
I do feel like it would probably be in my best interest if I do go ahead and atleast talk to one myself though.
She left me a message on the machine yesterday & wanted me to leave all her mail in the mailbox so she could come by here and get it, but I left her a message this morning that I was taking her mail to work with me and that she could come get it from me, or I might meet her somewhere, but I never heard from her and don't think she can face me. The message also said she was going to leave me a letter, and I was assuming it was going to be bad, thats why I really wanted to meet her in person, so that she could tell me what she had to say, or I could read the letter in fron t of her and be able to reply. She didnt give me that chance. She has bills that are going to be due soon, and she's gonna need her mail, should I be nice and let her have control by leaving it for her, or make her meet me?

<small>[ August 18, 2004, 11:00 PM: Message edited by: sewsklov ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/19/04 04:38 AM
Hey all,


Sewsklov...

I hope I had that spelling right... anyway, after reading your post IMHO... your up for some "Tough Love"!

What you posted about about your "W" is not a good indicator. IMHO, I think your "W" is lying big time... and I in fact would consider seeing an attorney, ASAP, in order to protect yourself.

I'm sorry to see you here... but the Lord leads us where he wants us to be.

I'll be very direct with you about this situation... you have problems, and what you have to do is reastablish a common ground with your "W", ASAP. Have you gone into a full in depth Plan A.?

When spouse talks the way your spouse is talking... it is not a good sign.

If you have not Planned A., yet.. then I would do so post hence... because it sounds like time is not on your side at this particular time.

It sounds like she already may have a relationship struck up with this "OM", and you need to quell it right now. If you don't you more than likely will have a "D", on your hands.

If she does not respond to your efforts, then Plan B, is in order... I'm sorry to say.

Prayers to you , and keep us posted when you have time.

Petvet, avondale, and everyone else...

I HAVE MY NEW READING GLASSES... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm still looking at this whole thing... and I'm not so sure what I see is to my liking.

I'm looking at this one real hard... it's a day by day process... and so far... I'm not so sure I like what I'm seeing.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/19/04 12:27 PM
Avondale and Wallace Thanks for the replies. I called my wife this morning, and since she won't answer my calls, I left her a message saying that I still have her mail, and would like to meet her and sit down and talk about things. I'm not quite sure what to say to her to try and convince her to come back home and give things a try, but I'm atleast gonna put the offer out there. I think I will accomplish alot more if she will be willing to meet me in person. If she doesn't return my call, or says she isn't willing to sit down and talk with me, then I'm not sure what I'll do.
I guess I've been confused by the use of plan A, and didnt really see how to get to it since she was gone from the house already, and then after reading through Love Must be Tough made me really wonder what approach to take.

I'll update when and if I hear from her, or if I take any more steps.

Thanks
Wesley (is easier to type than Sewsklov)

I also think I'll change my screen name to what it really is instead of sewslov. It'll make more sense if I do that.

<small>[ August 19, 2004, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: VolksWes ]</small>
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/19/04 12:34 PM
Here is my normal screen name that I use. I use it at a few other sites too, and had just reversed it just cause I didn't know if I would run into someone that would recognize it from one of them, and I didn't feel like having to explain everything that is going on with me to one of them.

Wesley aka: Volkswes/Sewsklov
I'm a big VW person if you couldn't tell from the name.
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/20/04 05:29 AM
Hi All,

Welcome (I'll go with Wesley) - Sorry to see you go through this, we all here can relate well. I agree with all Avondale and Wallace said.

As Wallace said your W is really into it. My [urgent] advice to you is to back off! Don't chase her, let her run with it and run to the dead end. You see, an affair is a weakness and not strength. Why go chasing somebody that&#8217;s weak? While it appears she's having fun and leaving you behind, she's not. She's going backwards with OM and will suffer in the end. That's why you got to work on you( Plan A) Leave her alone (Plan B).&#8230;.She needs her space and alone time..

You see what you had is now gone. You can't bring her back to the same'ol same'ol and expect to live as you did before. It's now a new day and new things..You must create an environment that you are happy in despite what she does...Once she see's that you are getting along without her (having fun and succeeding, believe it or not it draws her back to you.&#8230;.It makes her question, why did she leave?

Here&#8217;s a secret weapon but it&#8217;s painful to use. In all your discovery of your WW&#8217;s and OM&#8217;s conversations, try to remember what she said she liked about him, why? Because it&#8217;s really a (love bank) feeling she&#8217;s searching for and not really the OM, he&#8217;s just an outlet/rebound. Write down what she says she doesn&#8217;t like about you, it&#8217;s painful but it works. Remember, she says she still loves you. You can use those conversations of OM and what she dislikes about you to your advantage in your Plan A.

As far as legal issue's make sure you keep every receipt from this day forward. I don&#8217;t know if you have kids but jot down everything you do for them and keep every receipt. It&#8217;s a sad thing to do but this is why I&#8217;m paying child support arrearage today, why? Because I didn&#8217;t have any physical record of what I did for my family while WW was having her multiple affairs even after she moved out. What kind of parent goes about and keeps track of what they spend and do for their kids? Well the court wanted to know, so they labeled me as some deadbeat father&#8230;&#8230;

Anyway hang in there, all is not lost. One thing I can say is that only being married two years, you&#8217;ll recover faster than most here&#8230;.I envy you&#8230;

Wallace &#8211; To answer you question how are &#8220; Laches&#8221; a two-edge sword.

One scenario: (This is the one that sliced me, it worked against me) As I was standing for my marriage I was acting in trusting manner with WW doing my normal fatherly duties. Even though ww moved I was still involved with kids and family but kept no receipts and log of activities. So, ww files for DV 1 year later after affairs started dv final in 2002. I still would not participate or sign some papers trying to stall. Well she sent those unsigned papers to the court and it look like abandonment of my right to file claims, failure to participate at the given opportunity&#8230;.So the courts were like, well, where were you? Where is your proof of receipts? Why come you didn&#8217;t come, Why come you didn&#8217;t respond, etc&#8230;.


So as the [great]Avondale wrote on: &#8220;Laches&#8221;

Quote:

&#8220;Laches&#8221; is an unreasonable delay or negligence in pursuing a right or claim; can be asserted as a defense to a claim. I have no clue why your ExW would think YOU were delaying things. Were you doing anything to stall the divorce (and prolong your chances for marriage improvement)?

The answer is &#8220;Yes&#8221;, I was stalling the DV in hope to restore my Marriage, but didn&#8217;t know I was breaking the law in doing so. I should have agreed with her immediately and signed every paper. I was stupid because she had a plan and knew parts of the dv laws. My heart was thinking, let&#8217;s rebuild our relationship. Her heart was set on &#8220; I&#8217;m going to take him for every penny she could get.

On the flip side how &#8220;Laches&#8221; work for you.

Scenario: If a woman never pursued child support or alimony until 10 years later after separation or DV. The man could use &#8220;Laches&#8221; against her and not pay child support or alimony. That&#8217;s why some courts are abolishing this law in certain legal actions, child support one of them.

&#8220;Laches&#8221; is an unreasonable delay or negligence in pursuing a right or claim; can be asserted as a defense to a claim

It this case you prove the woman purposely exercised laches against you when she could have taken action within 2 years verses 10 years.

Laches was never intended to be used in family law, this was intended for medical mal practice suits and real estate issues. Laches is found to be a loophole in some State laws&#8230;.

Hello to: Avondale,Leah,Relady, Petvet, Country M, Trusting Him, WAID, WGTT, Dave PR, and anyone else I missed, sorry!!


Me: Found out that exw's CS request was informal and went straight to the hearing officer/judge, therefore I sent a letter to the court that threw a wrench in all of it (BAM!!, cling, cling) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> so that killed that action for now....Other than that just living life...

Take Care
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/19/04 07:21 PM
I'm staying confused, at one minute I'm thinking I need to try and get her back home and try to see how things go for a little while, but then you make a good point too, but with her saying she is going to go talk to a lawyer next week scares me, and I find it hard to just sit back and not care about that. I also wonder if maybe once she gets there she will get to thinking about what is really happening, or there is also the chance that she wont even go. She has been so hesitant to make any decisions so far, that she might not follow through with this one either.

I had even thought about trying to go ahead and talk to a lawyer this week and get papers started to really throw her off and surprise her. She knows I don't like the divorce idea, but if I was the one doing it, I would be somewhat taking control from her, and she wouldn't know what to think. It would be like me opening the door to the birdcage....but I really don't want the divorce, so I don't believe that is a risk worth taking.

So I'm in a debate with myself now. Leave her alone, and let her file for DV or Try to talk her back home and try things out for a period, that is if she would even be willing to.

I also wonder if I should keep holding her mail and make her come get it from me face to face, or be nice and leave it in the mailbox or drop it by the front desk at her office for her.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/19/04 10:25 PM
Wes - keep your screen name whatever you want it to be - no need to go out of your comfort zone for THAT! Lord knows you’re already out of your comfort zone with all the stuff going on at home!

It is possible to Plan A even when your W isn’t in the home. You just need to be more intentional, and more direct. EC explained it well, and had a great idea about writing down things that she has said she didn’t like about you. Usually there is an element of truth in them, if we’re open enough to see it in ourselves.

I would totally try to stall her filing for divorce. Have you considered writing a letter or email to her? That might be one way to communicate with her. I would suggest taking it one step at a time: Tell her you’ve seen some of the things wrong with yourself and want an opportunity to improve on them, so that you both can experience a great marriage. We’d be glad to critique it if you want. If you try to get her home, as you mentioned, that might be considered pushy.

Talk to a lawyer if you want....but before you do, visit these sites.
Divorce Source
Divorce Info
Divorce Net

They might tell you all you need to know. And whatever you do, don’t tell anyone you’re seeing a lawyer. Although seeing one is only to inform yourself of your rights, it could be taken by others to mean you want to dissolve the marriage. If you're telling your W that you want to work on your marriage, but she hears you're seeing a lawyer, it would confuse things. She's already confused enough <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Me - I'm waiting for H to call, I reminded him earlier of us getting together tonight; not sure why he hasn't given me a time... Oh well!

Hope everyone is doing well <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ August 19, 2004, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 08/20/04 01:30 AM
Hi everyone,


GRRRRRR - I just posted ( I thought) but nothing showed up. Can't go into it all - this will have to be a drive by post now - go homework to do!
Welcome newbies, glad to read about oldies, and wallace - stay strong when it comes to the GF !!!
Volkswes - I plan A'd from 1200 miles away & according to steve harley it was a good modified (for the distance) plan A

Me - still sailing on a race crew, back to being a soccer mom and doing well in real estate, just takes time to build up so I am playing beat the clock before the money runs out. (which is right about now!)

WH is away most of the time, probably doing old stuff, I just focus on me and the kids and where I am going. If he wants to come along, fine, if not, I 'll continue to pray for him and focus on the Lord.

Last week, God sent me an angel in the form of an assistant. We've got some digging to do to get out of the hole I am in. what a relief !!! She is a huge help. Plus she grew up in an alcoholic family and went thru all this stuff with her mom.

Blessings!

D.

Avondale - my thoughts and prayers are with you always.

<small>[ August 19, 2004, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/20/04 10:12 AM
Hi all!

Volkswes:Sorry to hear about your issues. I someone recommeded earlier, I would back off for a little while from comfronting your w. She knows what she is doing, and she is trying to move away from you so that she can continue doing her thing with you looking over her shoulder. I would talk to an attorney as soon as possible. You are in the danger zone.

Wallace: Do one of those positives/negatives assessments on your relationship. I bet you will see things even more clearly.

Me: Living life.

I'm gone.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/20/04 11:54 PM
Hey all,

On the run as usual... got a few moments before I go out with my G/F tonight.

Wes...

IMHO... your in a position with your situation to work a good Plan A.

Plan A., is for you. Your "W" not need be present to work a good Plan A. Read up on this site about working Plan A., and take time to evaluate what may or may not have got you into the position your in.

Do not use "D" as a bluff or a scare tactic on your "W". It's bad business... and it could back fire right in your face... especially when in fact you don't want a "D", and you really want to put your "M", back together.

You cannot talk reason with anyone that may be in the middle of an "A", you can only work your Plan A., and be the best person you can possibly be. That and only that... will possibly bring the attention of your "W" back IMHO.

Your best bet at this point, is to take care of yourself (and your children if you have any) both mentally, physically, and legally. Plan A., contact an attorney... and be discreet about it, and find out what you have for options... just in case this whole thing decides to head south on you.

Don't beg... and don't look needy. You will only lose more ground if you do.

avondale...

Did you meet with your "H"?

If so, how did it all go?

Prayers for you avondale... I hope that if you two met, it wasn't too bad of an experience for you.

EC...

Thanks for the heads up on the legal jargon, as well as avondale's post.

I was just curious to see how you may want to use it or not use it concerning your current situation.

Sounds like your doing pretty good though, and your upbeat about everything... so that's a good sign.

Have you heard any word from either of your daughters lately?

WGTT...

Sometimes you have to leave your spouse behind in order to protect yourself and your children. It's a decision that they indeed do force us to make. But when we have had enough of all of their going-ons... it's really not that difficult.

Granted, I believe that it's a gut wrenching decision that we have to make... but, you have to do what you have to do... and it sounds like your moving on the right path.

Keep up the good work.

Petvet...

I did the assessment... and surprisingly my G/F was well above the grade. I just need to settle her down concerning this "M" thing at this point in time.

I still have my new reading glasses on though... so who knows what in fact may or may not happen. I'm just living life at this point, one day at a time... only time will tell I guess.

relady, Leah, and everyone else...

Hope your day is going well, and I hope things are going as best as they can for all of you.

Have a good weekend everyone.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/21/04 08:46 AM
Wallace Thanks, I have an appointment to speak with a lawyer on Wednesday of next week. I also emailed my W today, no begging involved, moreso just informative. I just made it clear that I realized and am working on what problems I have had, that were somewhat underlying excuses for all this. I also mentioned a little about some friends of ours that just had a baby on Wednesday. They are mutual friends of ours, but she hasn't been in contact with them much at all since she left. I was trying to include something of common interest.


I just realized tonight though, that my W didn't get my e-mail I sent. I forgot that she would be out of town today and tomorrow for a wedding. So she probably won't get it til Monday.

She got in the mail yesterday, what appears to be an overdraft notice for her checking account, which I also mentioned in the email. I hate for her to not realize and bounce any more checks. (even though I actually like to see that she is short on money, and maybe she'll realize how good she had it here.) If we divorce, there isn't alot of money that she could get from me either, so she'll have a tough time affording a new place to live.

I really thank everyone for all the replies ands suggestions. It helps alot. I hope evryone has a great weekend.

<small>[ August 21, 2004, 03:48 AM: Message edited by: VolksWes ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 08/21/04 12:48 PM
VOLKSWES,

Hi and welcome to the thread. I too was very confused when my husband first left us. I read and heard so much advice that seemed to be conflicting in nature. I wish I knew then what I know now. You know the old hindsight is 20/20.

What you've been hearing here is good advice. Continue to work on yourself. Treat your wife with kindness and respect but do not beg for her affection. I think it's wise to see the attorney for info. but be very discreet about it. I hope things improve in your situation. Keep us posted!

AVONDALE,

Hope your meeting with your husband went well. I'm glad your appraisal was what you wanted. Keep on keeping on.

WALLACE,

Glad to hear your keeping those new glasses on. I hope you continue to make wise choices and find happiness in the days ahead.

WGTT,

Glad to hear from you. It sounds as if you're doing the best you can with where you are in life. Your situation reminds me a lot of where I am. We just need to keep our focus on God and keep pressing forward. He will take care of us.

HI to PETVET, E.C., TRUSTING HIM, RELADY and anyone else I might have missed. Hope you're all doing well.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/21/04 03:45 PM
Leah - It's great to hear from you!

WGTT - It's great to hear from you, too! I've thought about you a lot, and even did a search to see if you were posting elsewhere. Sounds like you're pretty busy, which I know helps in all kinds of ways.

Wes - Your email sounds good, and I think it was a nice touch to write news about mutual friends. You didn't open her mail, though, did you? I'm hoping that you just assumed it was an overdraft notice since it looked like one, right? I know how you feel, though - a little vengeance... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Me - I met with H this morning. He brought all figures for financial assets he got during marriage, value at date of separation. Everything was going well until I brought up subject of alimony, and his only thinking was that he'd help pay for my health insurance until I'm declared cancer-free <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> (4 more years). I told him I thought we fit at least half of the 10 determining factors that our state cites for alimony, and when I started listing them, he seemed to see the light a little bit. Of course, he doesn't want to pay anything, but I made as good of a case as I could and possibly my lawyer will have to do the rest. He will be talking to his lawyer next week. We tentatively decided to get this done by October and to do as much settlement as possible ourselves, without hopefully getting into court. I'll keep y'all posted.

<small>[ August 21, 2004, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/21/04 09:14 PM
Leah thanks for the welcome

avondale- No I didn't open it, it was a post card like thing that you have to tear the edges off of to open, but you could see through it when held up to a light. It said Important Notice that's why I looked.

My W is in one of her friend's wedding this weekend, and I'm hoping that that experience might get her to thinking about marriage....not sure if it will be good or bad though. Hopefully good of course. I felt kinda bad about not being able to go to this wedding, well I guess I could have still gone, but it would have been really wierd.

Oh well, I gotta go find something to keep my mind occupied for the rest of the night.

<small>[ August 21, 2004, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: VolksWes ]</small>
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/24/04 12:26 PM
Well, I still haven't heard anything from my W. I was hopeful that she might actually reply to the e-mail I sent, but nothing. It really irritates me that she cant even acknowledge that she has gotten any of my messages the past couple weeks. The last thing I got from her was the letter last week saying that she was gonna talk with an attorney this week. I could sense alot of anger from her in the way she phrased things in the letter. She seemed pretty mad about me calling OMW again. I don't think anymore attempts to try and talk to her or even email her are gonna do any good. I guess she thinks this all can end without her ever having to see or speak to me again.

I'm thinking I should quit with my attempts to contact her. I guess just sit and wait for the next move from her. The next thing may be her filing though.

::Wondering if she'll really do it::

Wesley
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/25/04 01:01 AM
Wes,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You said: I'm thinking I should quit with my attempts to contact her. I guess just sit and wait for the next move from her. The next thing may be her filing though.
::Wondering if she'll really do it::
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with you, don't try any more contact right now. Maybe it will give her cause to think about it. Hopefully by now you've made it real clear that you're all about working on your marriage, and making changes in yourself to see that come about. You're right, though, the next thing might be her filing. Do you have a plan if that is the case? We can pray she won't do it.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/25/04 01:17 AM
Hi All,

Wes...

What I am about to say, is strictly my opinion, and you can take it for whatever it may be worth, as I have not spoken to my exW for almost 2-1/2 years (Her choice, not mine).

IMHO, your "W" not contacting you is not unusal... especially if you have no children involved (and it appears that there are none).

There is a number of reasons for this, the main one being guilt, and feeling ashamed about what they have done, and what they are currently doing and planning.

They don't want to face the fact... that they may possibly be the one who is in fact the one with the problem. They want to live their life as the self centered person that they truly are.

When they are in this state of mind... it's all about them, and they really could care less about anyone or anything for the most part while all this is taking place.

Keep working your Plan A., for yourself. I wouldn't go out of my way to make contact with your "W" at this point... it will probably do more harm than good. Let her do whatever she is going to do. Unfortunately, what your "W" does, or doesn't do is out of your control. You have to start to begin to let her go in your mind, and in your body as hard as it may be at this point in time. Whatever way this scenaro decides to swing, mentally you should be able to shoulder the outcome be it good or bad... if you prepare yourself for the worse... it will be bad if she decides to pull the plug, but not as bad as if you thought everything was going to be O.K. If she decides to come around, and she shows you that she indeed wants to be a loving and caring "W", then you will be that much stronger in your self, and hopefully in your "M".

When we get into situations such as what we have here... it's always best to prepare for the worst... and hope for the best.

This will all eventually blow up in her face if she continues down this road she is on... and you may see the outcome of it all, or you may very well not know a thing as it progresses. Right know you need to take care of you. Go on with your life as well as you can... and keep trying to move forward in spite of all the pain and angst. It's hard, make no mistake about it... but in time, no matter what the outcome... you will become a much stronger person.

Say a good long prayer to the Lord as well. We all need all the help we can get.

Leah...

It's good to hear from you!

How are thing s going since your vacation?

Let us all know how you are doing when you get a chance.

avondale...

What can I say my little sister.

I thought maybe, just maybe... your "H" would of possibly snapped out of it and would of come to his senses somewhere along the line... but it doesn't appear so based on what you last posted.

I know that there is not much I can probably say to make it any better for you, but I want you to know... that I have seen you grow by leaps and bounds since your first posted on this thread. You have walked the walk, and the Lord knows your pain and frustration, and I know he doesn't like to see his children suffering.

There is no doubt in my mind that you will be rewarded with the Lord's blessings. In fact I hope we all will when he thinks the time is right for us.

He gave us all free will... it's unfortuante that some people... didn't see the blessings that the Lord bestowed upon us.

All I can say is... "I hope all of the WS's someday find God's word, and seek salvation through the Lord... for they will truly not find the happiness that they seek until they do".

relady...

Are you going back into hiatus again?

Petvet, EC, WGTT, and anyone else I may have missed...

Hope everything is going well for you.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/25/04 10:08 AM
Hi all!

Wes: I think you need to limit to the bare minimum your interactions with the w. Don't let her think that you are needy and begging for her to come back. Keep up with the Plan A.

Avondale: Your H may realize that this thing is going to be more expensive than he had anticipated. It going to be interesting to see what happens after he talks with his attorney.

Later.
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/25/04 02:58 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There is a number of reasons for this, the main one being guilt, and feeling ashamed about what they have done, and what they are currently doing and planning.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's kinda what I was thinking. I figure she may have realized for a little while that she is the one that has done wrong, and I think she is afraid to face me. She might lose her distance from the situation if she were to see me. I have an appointment with a lawyer today, then one with my counselor right after.
Last night was a really bad night for me. I don't really know why or what triggered it, but I got really down low. Thank God one of my friends called to talk and check on me. The bad dreams struck again last night too. I'm getting more and more nervous as the week goes, wondering if she filed and if I'll get something in the mail.
::hoping my e-mail to her last week might delay her::

I haven't called or tried to contact her since Saturday, and I don't plan on trying anymore, even though she really needs to get all her mail that I have from the past 2 1/2 weeks.

Avondale, Wallace, PetVet: thanks for the replies. I really value your comments, and they are helpful in keeping me thinking straight.
It is good to talk to people that can relate to what I am going through, which is one thing my 3d friends and family can't do.

Wesley

<small>[ August 25, 2004, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: VolksWes ]</small>
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/26/04 05:57 AM
Hi All,


Wes - Keep the faith and know everything is going to be alright. I hope you don't take us as saying give up, but as Wallace said all WS's are self-centered at this point.

I remember trying to contact and communicate with exww in a normal way, as we always did,via email, cellphone,work, etc.. and she began to say " Why are you tracking me?, Why are you following me?Can't you move on? etc...and then she would disappear more, hide more, stay silent for days.

Then as I backed off, she would search me out when she hit a low.....It would boggle my mind. At that time is when I would be extra nice and gentle and display (Plan A).

The WS's go through extreme high and low moments just like drug addicts because those "Counterfeit" love bank deposits from OM/OW are like fast food, cheap and temporal...A lying wonder as if they will be filled and satisfied.

During an apology one year WW said the multiple affairs were not about me, but all about her, she said she had the problem and said I just got caught in the middle of her issues.

I don't know how long you guys knew each other prior to marriage but how well you guys bonded and really got to know each other plays a major role in the outcome. Many of us here were married 15+ plus years, then our WS's discover we're not compatible anymore (of course WS talk)....So anyway keep posting.....

Wallace - Did you get over your flu? No chicken soup from your G/f this time? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You asked earlier have I spoken with YD lately? Yes, after many weeks on no communication. They made it through hurricane charley. But my old city got slammed hard...Glad I wasn't there or them..

Me and YD kinda fell out a few weeks ago because I was paying her monthly cellphone bill and it kept getting higher and I questioned what was happening? She gave some bogus reason and then yelled at me " You just send me the money and that's why I didn't want you to have nothing to do with this in the first place, it's my phone and my business!..... So since then we haven't really talked. I stopped paying and I refuse to be treated that way..

Since that day I could tell she has been heavily influenced by exww that my only role in her life is to send money without relationship.....

Ps 120:7 - I am for peace: but when I speak, they are for war.


Avondale - Glad you met with your H. You know, I think if I would have left my W, I would have no problem paying alimony. I would feel I owe it to her. So don't worry if he has to pay, just enjoy it.....The wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just..


Hello, Leah,Petvet, WGTT, Momma8, All our newcomers and anyone else I missed!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/25/04 06:25 PM
Hey All,

I hope everyone had a great week. The weekend is almost here again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Where does the time go??

Avondale

I'm glad to see the meetings with your H are going ok. I have to hand it to you though, the ability to meet and talk and go back to your respective places. God is truly with you. I'm not sure I could do that.

Wallace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you going back into hiatus again? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I won't be doing that again unless the Lord pulls me to the backside of the mountain again. And I'll give you fair warning. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

In CA I have to wait 6 months and 1 day before filing my final D papers and that will be next week. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I have been trying to get things in order, so I won't forget to change the things I need to change. I'm still deciding if I want to continue to pay for an insurance policy I have on him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

How are your new glasses working?? Have you cleaned them yet?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

VolksWes

First let me say a belated Welcome to the thread, although it's never good to be here, you will certainly grow from being here, guaranteed.

As everyone here will tell you, I'm the nice, mellow one of the group. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I can relate to your situation very much. My H and I were married 3 years, (no children) before he decided he no longer wanted to be married. Two years ago, he walked out never to be seen or heard from again. I never called him about anything, his mail, his phone calls, nothing. Although it was a hard thing to do, I knew if I had any contact with him, I would start to beg.

I'm not saying it's easy, but it can be done with Gods help and believe me that is the only way.

He knew he had mail just as your W does, he never called about it and soon, there was a change of address filed. He even finalized every small detail, He took me off the Costco card and stopped my Newspaper!! Can you imagine that! How petty!! Those were the only joint assets we had!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> because I never added him to my bank accounts or real estate that I had on my own.

So, take care of yourself, come here often and above all improve your relationship with the Lord and allow Him to be first in your life and all the other things will fall into place.

WGTT

Glad to see everything is working out for you especially real estate. Our market has quieted down a bit, so I'm increasing my pace in my marketing. It is truly a wonderful business!!

Petvet, Leah2be, Hope all is well.

relady
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/25/04 09:44 PM
Relady - thanks for the welcome <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
One financial thing I worry about it her car loan because I co-signed on it, and if she meeses up on her payments it will hurt me too. She still gets statements in the mail but I think she pays it online. Maybe I can check with them to make sure it is still being paid. All her other bills are in her name only so I'm not worried about them.

I have felt closer to the Lord through all of this than I ever have before. I'm actually back into going to church regularly now, which is one thing I regret we didn't do while she was here.

Wesley

BTW- my visit with the attorney had to be rescheduled for Friday

<small>[ August 25, 2004, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: VolksWes ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/25/04 11:25 PM
Hi All,

LOL... talk about a run on sentence in my last post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> WOW!

I get to absorbed sometimes when trying to express a thought. I'm a better communicator verbally than I am at writing.

My old College Professor in English Composition (101), would not have been happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Anyway...

Wes...

As EC, has stated...We are not, and I am not trying to give you the impression to just give up on your "M"... and I hope you didn't take it that way.

You do need to start thinking about protecting yourself though. I would indeed call your bank or go on-line to see if in fact the car payments are being made.

I know all to well what a WS can do with your financial situation if left unchecked.

Sorry to hear that you had a bad night, and a bad dream as well. From time to time... I will have a dream about my exW, and it will shoot me almost right out of the bed. Sometimes I will wake up after one of those dreams just drenched in sweat. It is not a pleasant experience!

Talk to your attorney as soon as you can... and just prepare yourself for what may or may not happen.

Prayers for you Wes, I know all to well what your going through... and it is by far one of the worst experiences you can go through... I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Hopefully with you keeping a low profile, she may rethink her whole situation.

We can only hope and pray, that she starts seeing the light!

relady...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Can you see my new reading glasses? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Yep, I have them on, as you can see.

When I read your posts that are directed at me... I get a big grin on my face, and then I start to chuckle.

That by the way... is a huge compliment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I will say one thing... you and avondale are about the only two people that I know... that can put a smile on my face and start making me think seriously all at the same time.

I'm very pleased to hear that you did not go on hiatus, and you will give us ample warning.

After reading your last post though... I have a question.

Both you and I have not spoken with our Ws's for over 2 years. For me... I don't think I would want it any other way based on what happened with my situation. How do you feel about not talking with your "H" for so long?

Do you think things might have been different... had you spoke with your "H"?

I know when a "M" is left in the state that many of our marriages were left in... does anyone feel that it would of been at least decent of our WSs to at least let us know why they were ruining a "M", and a family?

To this day... I still ponder that question from time to time.

EC...

No chicken soup for me from my G/F lately. I haven't had the flu for quite some time, and it's not cold enough for Chicken Soup yet.
We are starting to come into the season for it though... and I do love good home made "Chicken Soup"!

Just for the record concerning your YD and her cell phone.

I would of probably had the phone shut off, had my YD talked to me in the way that you stated your YD talked to you... but that's just me. Until she apologized, and truly was sincere about it... the phone would stay disconnected so long as I was paying the bill.

My YD's cell phone is in my name, and I pay the bill, and she gets to use the cell phone as much as she likes.
But I get somewhat touchy these days, when people start looking at me as their own personal bank account to be used and abused.

Personally... I think it's a phase that all daughters go through... and your probably not to far off the mark when you state that your exW may have some influence on it.

Hope everyone is getting along as well as they can.

Well... I'm off to Church! You can never get too much of the Lord in your life.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/26/04 12:14 AM
Wes - I agree with Wallace, you need to check on any loan that has your name on it. The companies are legally bound to inform you. You don’t need to say anything about your personal situation, just confirm they’ve received a payment your W made. You could also find out if it was an electronic payment or a check.

Listen to what Relady and EC said, too. They’ve all been where you are with the zero communication. Don’t assume anything about your W because right now she isn’t the same person you used to know. Be prepared for anything, and keep praying for strength to walk the road you’re on.

EC - Sorry things got upset with your YD. I know that breaks your heart. Remember it is easy for teen girls to adopt that attitude, especially if their hearts are hardened. I’m sure their mother isn’t helping any in that regard. (I think Wallace already said all this.) Have you heard anything from your OD recently?

Relady - that was a great post. I’m glad you’re helping to keep these guys in line.

Petvet - Hubby has appointment with attorney next Tuesday. It will be interesting to see what she tells him. Do you think he will take my appraisal by itself, or will he want his own? Since he’ll have to pay for it, he might not want to do it. That would be good for me, right?

Leah - Anything new with you? Do you work? I can’t remember....but you are in my thoughts.

WGTT - Do you have any other income besides real estate? How are your kids doing now that their dad may be up to his old tricks?

Wallace - Did you ever finish all your house remodeling? How are your parents doing? Did the health scare help them decide to stick together, or are you in the “don’t ask, don’t tell” frame of mind regarding them?

I have probably missed someone who's active; if so, I apologize!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/27/04 05:24 AM
Hi All,

Have a great Thursday!

EC

I wonder how we would have been if we had a cell phone at your YD age! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My niece is 17 and she has had 2 cell phones taken from her for going over her minutes, now she has no phone. When I was back East for her graduation in June, I took her shopping and she bought two outfits and never took the phone from her ear!!

Her parents are divorced and she puts one against the other. She is sometimes very rude. Do you think it's because it's their only way of rebelling? After all, their world as they know it has been turned upside down and no one asked their opinion. (IMHO)


Wallace

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> That my friend is the problem, you're wearing sunglasses instead of reading glasses or in your case 'observing glasses' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Both you and I have not spoken with our Ws's for over 2 years. For me... I don't think I would want it any other way based on what happened with my situation. How do you feel about not talking with your "H" for so long?

Do you think things might have been different... had you spoke with your "H"?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a very good question. Sometimes thoughts of not trying to save my M bother me and that he probably thought I never cared about him in the first place enter my mind. Not as much anymore. In talking with my pastor about this same thing, he always takes me back to the fact that he never tried to communicate with you and he knew his actions would lead him to this place.

I have forgiven myself for those things I did to destroy my M which by the way was a difficult journey. Wouldn't you think that they would have something to say to us instead of the other way around?

How would I act if he suddenly called me or we saw each other? I have no idea.

Avondale

Thanks for the compliment and your help with these guys. What would they do without us?

Petvet, Volkswes, WGTT, Leah2be and everyone lurking have a great week.

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/27/04 03:25 AM
Hi all!

Wes: Keep doing to your plan for now. She knows that she has mail. If you really want her to have it, mail it to her or just throw it in a box for future retrieval. Check out all joint accounts, loans, etc. If you do have joint loan, see can you get her to sign over all the responsibility to herself. Talk to your bank or lender.

Avondale: Lets hope that he takes your appraisal. Remember, you are in the driver's seat. Don't sale that house! Oh! Contact IRS at 1-800-829-3676 and ask for publication 523 and 544. Both deal with selling homes or assets.

Relady: Yeah, I'm afraid your niece is using her situation to get sympathy from each parent which equates to GOODIES.

EC: Good advice to Wes. You are a psychologist in the making.

Wallace: You have had the flu? Well, I think I have caught what you had. You don't need any shades. Keep those bifocals on buddy.

Me: I'm sore all over, can't talk, and I am suppose to hear Al Jareau Friday night. Do you think there's a chance that a sip of Jack can knock it out of me?

I'm gone.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/27/04 04:11 AM
Hey All,

avondale...

In regards to my house being finished as far as the remodeling goes... I could only wish.

It's an ongoing project that probably will not end until I sell my house. There is always something that you can upgrade, or change in order to improve it.

Since I'm doing all the work myself, it kind of limits me to a great degree as far as time is concerned. There is not enough of me to go around for all the things that I would like to do... but I keep plugging away at it when I get a good chunk of free time.
I do have most of the major things that I wanted to get done, completed though.

My Dad is not doing real good at this particular time, and TY for asking.

He may have to have part of his arm removed in order to try to stop the spread of the type of Cancer he has. He has been into see a number of Doctors already. In fact he goes in to see them just about every day. Right now... I'm not sure what the outcome may be... as they are still running a number of tests on him at this point.

All the "D" talk has stopped between my Mother and my Father since all of this came to light concerning the Cancer. I'm thankful for that part of it... but I wish it was for a different reason.

I personally can't believe they were even entertaning the thought of such a thing after 54 plus yrs. of "M"... but I have seen stranger things.

relady...

As I read your post a big <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> came upon my face.

For the record... my reading glasses are sun glasses... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

They are sun glass frames with a slight dark tint to the lenses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Right at this very moment... my G/F and I are getting along extremly well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I'm laughing while I'm typing this... so bear with me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well if this means anything... I'm coming up on two years with my G/F. (I'm still laughing).

Oh, Oh... I have a phone call.

Talk to everyone later.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 08/27/04 06:04 PM
Hello Everyone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ran through and read/tried to catch up on each of the happings in your lives. It sounds good for most and that makes me happy.

Wes....

Listen to these people and they will guide you right. At this point it sound as if your wife has made up her mind and there is no changing it. Plan A? *chuckles* My wife and I have been divorced for almost a year now and I still try to Plan A her. AND...even in the midst of her new BF it sometimes appears to be working.

Let God change you in the the man He would have you to be and your wife will find that attractive. But that is her choice and you can no way change her or her preceptions. Those belong to her.

All...so sorry that I have not been able to keep up here and post. It seems that all kinds of good stuff is going on over here. Finances have caused me to look for a smaller place, lo and behold it was the former who found an apartment within my range. She even took the children by and they all agreed that it was nice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Maybe I'll figure her out one day

So, trying to find a way to reduce expenses, move, stay busy at work, new DivorceCare Class started with 20 people showing up for the first one has kept me busy and in the road.

Praying that God will continue to work in each of your lives and give you your hearts esire.

P.S.

A lady gave me a small book the other day, "Dare To Desire" by John Eldredge. Very Enlighting! A must read for those who feel that tugging desire in their hearts.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/27/04 06:15 PM
Hi All,

Well the weekend is finally here and I have no appointments scheduled. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> That is not good!!

Petvet

You're right, my niece is a master at manipulation. Her mother put her out, so she now lives with her father whom she has always been able to wrap around her finger. I'm proud of him though, still no cell phone.

Al Jareau huh? That should be a great concert. Is it an outside venue? Those are the best. If 'Jack' doesn't do it, try 'tequila shots' guaranteed to do the job!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They are sun glass frames with a slight dark tint to the lenses. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are those the ones that get dark in the sunlight and lighten when you go inside? If so keep your GF inside, so you can see better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Right at this very moment... my G/F and I are getting along extremly well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In that case, stay in 'this very moment', don't venture out!!

Avondale

You may be able to find those publications petvet mentioned on line at the irs website. They usually provide their publications and forms there. You could be on hold forever with them.

Everyone, have a great weekend.

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/28/04 02:44 AM
Hi All,

relady...

In regards to my sun glasses... yes they are polarized, and I may be as well... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sometimes... when it comes to a relationship with the opposite sex, I feel that I just really don't get that concerned about it anymore. It's the word's in that one song... "Once bitten twice shy"!

I've lived my life, and I accomplished most of my dreams. My kids, my family, and of course the Lord, is what life really means to me at this stage of my life.

I have the Lord, and I have my kids... and that is where I try to put my main focus on these days.

I feel blessed that I was given the opportunites that I was given in my life time.

In spite of everything that has happened... I still believe that the Lord is still blessing me and my family.

Your right about your one statement... you won't make it without the Lord.

With all of the wonderfulness that is surrounding me with my Dad, and such... the Lord and myself are communicating quite a bit these days... more so now... than probably ever before.

I just sometimes wonder when all the wonderfulness will ever end.

Trusting Him...

Good to hear from you!

As you walk in the Lord... people will definitely take notice. It will only attract the people that the Lord wants in your life... and that is a very good thing.

Your heading up a Divorce Care group? Correct me if I'm wrong... but you were heading up previous groups as well, were you not?

I got a lot out of the Divorce Care Group that I attended... I highly recommend it to anyone who is going through a "D", it puts many things into perspective.

Good to hear from you, let us know how things are progessing.

avondale...

O.K., we are going to talk some legal stuff here.

You take your apprasial for your home, and you present that to the mediator. That in fact is considered admissable to the Courts.

If your "H" wants to challenge it... then he will have to get an appraisel on your house for himself, and then challenge it.

Keep in mind that any upgrades you have done to the home since your seperation needs to be deducted from his apprasial... as he cannot include that as part of the pay-off settlement unless you agree to it.

Stay with the lowest appraisel that you can get. I pointed out every last thing that needed to be done with my house... and I got a far lower appraisel for my house, had I not.

It was used in Court, and it was admissable evidence to the Judge for him to make a determination as far as who got what.

Needless to say... she didn't get anything for the house or anything else for that matter... and after it was all said and done with... I started remodeling my house.

As sad as it is to say... per my attorney. "You are in a War"!

It's not much to walk away with it all considering all the grief and angst that they put upon all of the family as well as yourself. But there is no sense in rewarding them with anything more than they deserve. What they really deserve... is the boot... right out the door... and nothing more... to live the life that they chose to undertake.

Don't settle for anything less than what you have had your house appraised at. Buy him out if you so chose, for the amount that the Courts or you both decide to come to terms with, and be done with it.

I personally wouldn't budge from what the house appraised at.

Country mama...

Haven't heard anything from you lately... how are you doing?

Let us know when you get a chance.

Petvet, EC, Leah, WGTT, and anyone else I might have missed...

Hope all is well in your lives, and everything is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/29/04 12:56 AM
I went and spoke with a lawyer on Friday. It went well, he answered all my questions, and said to let him know if I get anything from her or a lawyer.

Friday when I got home there was a change of address notice from the post office. So is having her mail forwarded somewhere, but I have still recieved a few things of hers, Like her statement on her car, and another overdraft notice from her bank. She bounced 4 checks this time. Good to see she is managing her money well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Overdraft fee of $140 for 4 checks totaling $30. My lawyer eased my mind on any debts that accumulate. Said I don't really have to worry as long as my name isnt on the accounts.

I've been thinking about what I would say if my W came to me needing money.

I had a good day today. I went out and did alot of stuff for myself. Got a haircut, new clothes(needed due to losing so much weight lately), some new sunglasses, and tires for my truck. I spent quite a bit of money, but it felt good, and it's something I havent done in a long time.

I haven't tried to contact her still, but wonder how long I should try this....indefinitely? Does anyone have any thought on that. There has to be a point where it ends and either try to contact them again or either take action on DV. I'm curious to hear what other people have done.

I hope everyone is having a good weekend.

Wesley
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/29/04 02:40 AM
Wes - I thought the car loan was in both your name and your wife’s, or that you were a co-signer on her behalf. (Didn’t you say that in an earlier post?) So if she’s behind in payments, or bouncing checks, I think that could come back to bite you. (Remember the point of having a co-signer!) I’m glad you saw a lawyer, did you tell him about that? On another note, it’s good that you went out and did stuff for YOU today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You said : I'm curious to hear what other people have done.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been married for a total of 27 yrs and separated for over 2 years. I receive some financial help from my H; I know where he is and if something happened (like when I had cancer surgery) I would let him know. But I can go months without ever interacting with him, and even then, most of our contact is through e-mail. Now we’re interacting more due to impending divorce. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Each situation is different. You haven’t been married very long at all, and I assume you’re a young whippersnapper. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I know that for ME, I didn’t want to do anything that could be construed as moving towards divorce because I didn’t want that on my conscience. I think most (if not all) people on this thread waited a very long time (years?) before divorcing. Only you know what is right for you; just pray that God will show you.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 08/29/04 02:59 AM
Hi all,

Wes

It looks as though you're following in my footsteps! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Friday when I got home there was a change of address notice from the post office. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By the time you get that notice, approximately 10 days have passed. When that happened to me, I noticed my mail had stopped as well. Make sure you go to the Post Office and let them know you still live there.

My H sent all my mail back rather than let me know he had it!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I haven't tried to contact her still, but wonder how long I should try this....indefinitely? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My 'indefinitely' ends next week. I never contacted my H and he never contacted me except to discuss divorce and that was all in writing!

Your W may or may not contact you about money. She knew this would happen and has probably planned for it.

It sounds harsh, but don't be a doormat. And if you continue to try and reach her, she will definitely hurt your feelings at this point, especially if she's with an OM.

Continue working on yourself and enjoy being with yourself. Do the things you have denied yourself. When I started to do those things, time kind of flew by and I realized I no longer wanted the same relationship with my H. You will discover the same thing, guaranteed.

And to quote our friends signature. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Stay Strong

Wallace

What a wonderful testimony! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Sometimes... when it comes to a relationship with the opposite sex, I feel that I just really don't get that concerned about it anymore. It's the word's in that one song... "Once bitten twice shy"!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You've got to be concerned, some 'vampires' leave bites that never go away! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet

Did you make the concert? If so, how was it?


I hope everyone is having a wonderful weekend.

relady
Posted By: EverlastingCompassion Re: Tough Love - 08/29/04 09:21 PM
Well guys and gals this is the end of the road for me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . I'll no longer be posting. It's time to go another direction. I appreciate all the encouragement from everyone of you. It's been difficult journey but I/we have survived.

Thanks for all the prayers and advice over time. When I first came here I was so low a worm could look down at me having gone through 5 affairs with WW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

Continue to lift each other up and let your life give another hope. I'm sure I'll drop by in the future so keep up the good work of healing. You guys are the greatest <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and this is the bestg thread on the board I would say

Not that this matter, but just in case you wondered as we limit our identity for privacy sake, my culture is african american, as if you didn't already know.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take Care <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/29/04 09:28 PM
EC
I don't know if you're still online, but would you kindly explain what is going on? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> You can't just write "bye" without warning! Why are you leaving? You (and your experiences) can be of valuable help to those on this thread, not to mention the hundreds who post in other MB forums. Has someone offended you or something? Please don't go! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ August 29, 2004, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/30/04 07:26 PM
Well, I am actually still getting my mail, so the post office didn't mess up mine, but I am still getting mail addresses to her too, so they may not have hers changed correctly. The statement came for the car payment. I don't know is keeping up with when it is due or not, but I hope she is, and that she'll just know to make the payment.

I'm wondering if the car payment is something I should e-mail her, or leave her a message about. I've been thinking about if she doesnt make the payment on time, what I should do. I don't want to put any money towards it, but I don't want my credit ruined either.

I figure if she spoke with an attorney last week, then it might be another week or so before I hear anything or recieve anything.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/30/04 10:47 PM
Wes ,
What makes you SO sure that she DID change her address? Also, I’m still not clear - is your name on the car loan or not? If it is, no matter what capacity, you could be liable if she doesn’t pay. I hope your lawyer explained that to you. Did you call the loan company to confirm that it was paid last time, and how it was paid (online, by phone, by check)? Is it possible she wants to make things difficult for YOU by not paying? Do you have separate bank accounts?

Options:
1) Fill out a Post Office change of address form for her (assuming you know her address).
2) E-mail her that her mail continues to come to your home, and you don’t want her to get into trouble by not paying on time, so you’re writing to give her that reminder.
3) Call her with the same information. Stick to the subject. Tell her you love her, but don’t get into other conversation.

Me - Hubby talks to lawyer tomorrow. I expect to hear from him probably at the end of the week. I pray she doesn't assert the "he doesn't need to pay alimony" stand he's thinking of... His lawyer has a tough attitude, according to what I've heard. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/30/04 10:55 PM
Hey All,

Wes...

avondale and relady have given you some pretty good advice in their posts.

You need to start protecting yourself... like right now!

I've seen this, and I have lived this all before, and many of us on these boards have as well.

You need to immediately look at all your finances, and anything that you have a joint account on... you need to get your name off of it as fast as you can.

Do you own a home? If you do... you really need to watch your "W's" actions, and really step up to the plate ASAP!

In regards to the car loan you cosigned for... I would watch that like a Hawk. If she's bouncing checks the way she is... it's just a matter of time that credit cards can enter the picture, as well as forgeries, and the like.

It can get real ugly, real fast, if you don't protect yourself.

If she has any type of access to any of the following... be it credit cards, Bank accounts. unused checks, etc (and they don't have to be in Joint Accounts). It could in fact turn your lfe around... and not for the best.

Protect yourself!

EC...

After what I've been through... I hate goodbyes... so never say goodbye.

You have come a long way, and you have a lot of knowledge to spread around these boards EC.

avondale is right, you should still post when you can and let others learn from your experience.

Anyway... your in my prayers, as well as everyone else who is on these boards and all who have been on these boards.

I personally didn't know you were African-American, and it wouldn't of mattered to me anyway. As far as I'm concerned... it's not the color of a man's skin that makes him a man. It's honesty, integrety, and courage that makes the man... and you fit all of the above in my eyes EC.

Stay in touch when you can my friend... and may the Lord bless you always.

relady...

I've already had my blood drawn from a vampire (my exW). so I don't have much left to give.

Speaking of which... one of my cats got into a fight with my Dog in my house Saturday night. They were tearing my living room apart, so I jumped in on it, to try to get the cat off of the dog's head.

Well to make a long story short... I got the cat off the dog's head, as she was trying to scratch his eye's out... but I think I got the most damage out of it after it was all said and done with.

I have what looks like three knife wounds in my side from the cat while I was getting her off the poor dog, because he was taking a beating.

I had to go to the Doctor to get shot's and the whole nine yards from there, after it was all said and done with.

The Doctor said he had never seen anything quite like it, because the cuts were so deep and so long, he though I was in a knife fight.

Well that's how my Saturday night went.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 06:21 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 08/30/04 11:12 PM
Hi avondale,

We must of crossed posted.

Are you asking for alimony in your "D" agreement? It sounds like you are... also did you ask for maintenace, or is he, or has he paid any maintenance since the seperation?

Are you working through your attorney as well while all this is being drawn up, or are you going to show him (your attorney) what you think is fair when you come to an agreement.

Have you decided what your going to do with your house yet?

Hang in there avondale... there is not a lot you can do at this point but play the waiting game, and see what he comes up with.

Make sure that you get him to keep your Medical Insurance going at mimimum... along with everything else.

Let us know what transpires when you get news of it.

I'll say a nice long prayer for you tonight.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: laura_lee Re: Tough Love - 08/31/04 12:34 AM
Hi Wallace... and everyone else... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace, maybe I'm lazy... but I can't seem to go back in time to reread posts. I wanted to touch base and see how you are and what is new?

Update?

How is everyone?

Anyone still working at a XS from the past... reunited... or is everyone seeing new people now?

Couldn't help but notice... post number... 666... maybe it's time to go!

Laura

<small>[ August 30, 2004, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 08/31/04 04:42 AM
Hi all!

EC: Why are you leaving? Your insight has been a valuable part of this thread. I think it is important to show those on the thread that we can work through the hurt and pain of our current or past relationships. Post when you can buddy. Also, it does not matter what your ethnicity is when it comes to WS.

Relady: The concert was great; however, I was not impress with his fetish for making urinating comments throughout the show. It could have left those out of his act. I've tried whisky, etc. I'm still hacking.

Avondale: Do you have hard evidence of your H affair because you may need it if he has a hard nosed attorney.

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 08/31/04 10:01 AM
Wallace - You give a whole new meaning to "Saturday night cat fight" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Sorry you had to go to the doctor, though! What set your pets off like that?

Clarification about me - I am indeed asking for alimony. I have been getting a generous “household support” amount every month. While I don’t think he needs to continue that same amount, I am hoping for something about 50-75% of that range. My attorney knows all this from our last conversation (remember, I’ve been expecting H to move towards D for a loooong time now). Our situation meets more than half of the factors that our state sets down for alimony. As for the house, I have decided to buy him out (or however that works), so I’m going to stay here. Unless something else breaks down, LOL... As far as hard evidence of affair, I have emails and copies of credit card bills, but the most important fact I have is H telling each of our families that he’s “emotionally involved with another woman”. I am sincere in saying I don’t want this to be dragged through the mud, I want to handle the situation with integrity. Hopefully we can settle it ourselves.

<small>[ August 31, 2004, 05:07 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 08/31/04 12:39 PM
Wallace - Yes, we own a home. The house and her car are the only things that we have jointly. Last year I was talking to her about closing accounts and a opening a couple of joint ones, but I'm glad we never did it now. If the mail continues I'll e-mail her to let her know, but there wasnt anything of hers in the mail yesterday. I believe she normally pays her carpayment online. I plan to start calling every couple of days to check that her payment has been made, but I left the account number at home today.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 08/31/04 06:42 PM
HI EVERYONE,

I'm still reading here but haven't had that much to say. Also, things have been really busy with my girls. They all went back to school yesterday and also have all started their soccer seasons.

My husband and I are still hanging in there. He is gone most of the time and is very busy with work and travelling. I still am ever striving to be the wife God wants me to be. Still praying for the miracle of complete healing and true intimacy in this marriage.

EC,

So sorry to see you go. Hope you can post every now and then and give us an update. We all enjoyed reading your words of wisdom.

AVONDALE,

You asked if I work. I've been a teacher in the past and went back to work part time as a substitute in the past couple of years. Right now I'm thinking of just being full time mommy and homemaker. I'm quite involved in ministry at my church and also volunteer a lot in the two schools my daughters attend. With my H gone much of the time, I find I really need to be here to maintain some stability and order.

I've been keeping you in my prayers as you go through this D process. You seem to be thinking thru it all very carefully. Keep looking to God to see you through.

WALLACE,

Ouch! Hope your wounds have begun to heal. I guess I still rather suffer at the hands of cats and dogs than WS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm also sorry to hear about your fathers continued struggles with cancer. It sounds as if God continues to use all these various experiences to keep you in close contact with Him.

I too have been having many conversations with the Lord in relation to many things in my life. I'd be so lost without Him. Keep looking up!

HI TO PETVET, WES, RELADY AND ANYONE ELSE I MIGHT HAVE MISSED. Hope everything is going well for you all.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/01/04 04:24 PM
Hi All,

Just thought I would drop in for a moment, as I'm at work right now, and have a little bit of time.

avondale...

I kind of figure you were on top of it, as well as your attorney.

Glad to hear that you decided to keep your house. You will most definitely want to get as low and as reasonable of an appraisal on your house that you can get then.



Laura_Lee...

How are you doing, and what have you been up to?

Just to bring you somewhat up to speed on my end.

I have been "D" for almost 2 yrs. now.

I've been dating for about about 2yrs now as well.

Haven't talked with my exW for over 2-1/2 yrs.

Scratched by my cat pretty bad the other night... and that's about it for the moment.

Wes...

Watch your "W" and any debts she may pile up... because it could effect your home in the later stages if in fact she does file for a "D".

Leah...

Good to hear from you... and yes it the pain is a lot less from a cat scratch than what any of us are going through.

Well gotta run.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/02/04 10:05 AM
Hi all!

Relady: The concert was good except for Al's continuous side remarks about picing. Go figure.

Avondale: I guest you have to wait to see what happens next with your H.

Wallace: You are correct when you say that one has a new perspective on the opposite sex after what we have gone through.

Wes: Watch those joint accounts!

Me: Still trying to get over cold.

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/03/04 05:41 AM
Hi All,

I hope everyone enjoys the 'last holiday weekend'. I will take off for San Diego tomorrow after I file my papers. I didn't realize this would be so emotion. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> I actually thought I was past this point!

Did all of you feel like 'crap' at this point? And did you feel better after it was over?

Petvet

What was the point of Al and his comments at the concert? That is the first time I've heard of him doing that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> What was the response of the crowd? That would definitely make for an uncomfortable concert.

Wallace

Cat goes crazy, girlfriend calm, is there a story here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I just couldn't resist that. Hope you're doing better. Maybe you should have used a stick instead of your body to break them up. How are you going to keep them apart?

What are your plans for the weekend?

Avondale

I hope all is well with you. Did you check on the refinancing of your home? Rates are starting to go up and will probably continue to go up until after the election.

EC

I'm not sure if you're still around. We will certainly miss you and your words of wisdom. And I don't think anyone was curious or even concerned about your ethnicity.

I will have to warn you though, it's not that easy to leave. You will always think of us and eventually come back. I speak from experience. It feels like family. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Leah2be, Volkswes, LauraLee, WGTT, and Everyone

Have a great and wonderful weekend.

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/02/04 06:07 PM
Hi All,

Petvet...

Maybe old Al has a bladder problem, and that's why he kept making references to it all night long. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I haven't been to a concert for quit some time. I use to love them and go all the time. Now I just don't want to hassle with all the crowds... so unless it's someone really good in my eyes... I usually stay away.

Sorry to hear that you still have your cold. Summer time colds IMO can be some of the worse you can get... they seem to last forever.

Well I hope everyone is doing well... and I also hope everyone has a great Labor Day weekend! Mine starts at 5:00 p.m. today! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 09/02/04 06:26 PM
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Last night after I got home from school, I recieved a call at home from a friend's mother that I haven't talked to in about 6 years. She asked me how things have been with me lately. I told her that things weren't good. She said she didn't think so, and that she knew somebody that works where my W does, and that my W is the big talk of their office, and that she goes to lunch nearly everyday with OM. I wasn't surprised to hear this, but it was still very upsetting to me that people that don't even know my W have heard and know how she is acting. The only way she knew it was my W was she heard where my W works.
Hearing this made me sick at my stomach again and make me sick thinking about it now. She asked me if my W realizes how she is being looked at by everyone where she works. I said, more that likely she's in such a haze that she doesn't realize, or either she's to the point where she doesn't care. I hope that her parents and friends start to see everything too, and that maybe she'll realize how bad she looks at work. I wouldnt care if got to the point where she lost her job. I find myself wondering why do I want this woman back still.

Still haven't received any papers, and her mail seems to have finally stopped now.

I also found out today through one of my W's friends that knows the whole story, that my W got moved to a different department at work. I wonder if it was due to something coming out about the A. I also wonder if this could be helpful.

<small>[ September 02, 2004, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: VolkWes ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/02/04 07:06 PM
Hi relady,

Cat goes crazy and the G/F is remaining pretty calm as well except I have one problem, that I'm not liking at the moment.

She just called me at work, and told me that her exH is at her house waiting for a telephone call. This is the third straight day in a row that he has showed up at her house.

The first day, he cried and said he made a big mistake cheating on her for all those years and basically asked for another chance. According to her, she told him no.
She stated that she did get closure finally after he spilled his feeling out to her.

Funny thing though... he is moving to Illinois to be with his G/F and they are going to live with her Dad. He's 49 yrs. old and his G/F just turned 32. Sounds like a real disaster in the making... huge age difference, and going to live in the same house with Daddy.

He evidently quit his job, because they cut his hours back to 30 hours a week... so now he's hitting everybody including his kids, and my G/F up for money.

I told my G/F that this guy will be back, and you haven't heard the end from him... not by a long shot. This guy was suppose to have left 3 days ago... and he's still here.

I asked her how she would feel if my exW was coming over to my house and just coming up with lame excuses to just be around. She said, "I would be upset"! After she stated that... I told her I would talk to her later, that I was busy... and I hung up.

The odd thing is... in actuality... it really doesn't bother me. In days gone by... I would of been really upset. But that was back in the days when I was a married man.

Your perspectives about the opposite sex IMHO sometimes change.

relady... what your feeling is not uncommon... even when you think you've made it over the hump.

I can only speak for myself... but I don't think I will ever truly get over what happened concerning my "M".

It's always somewhere in the back of my mind... it just needs something to jog everything forward for me to start looking at it all over again.

Most days are for the most part good, and the memories fade to a certain degree... but they never truly go away... at least not for me.

Hang in there! It will only last for awhile and then it will tuck itself away until the next incident or trigger brings it forward.
The good news is... as time goes on... the hurt and pain of it all does in fact slowly diminish to a point where you can just shake it off and go about your business. It does get easier as time goes on, but it will probably never go completely away IMHO.

As far as my cat and dog are concerned... they are pretty much avoiding each other. What caused the whole incident is beyond me... but if it happens again... I'm going to take the cat to PAWS, and let them deal with her.

Have a great Holiday relady

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/02/04 08:55 PM
Relady - I just looked at my calendar and I had made a note about your filing. You will be in my prayers. Enjoy your time in San Diego <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Wes - (((Wes))) we have all been where you are - having your spouse talked about, your marriage speculated upon, etc. Your answer was correct - she is in such a fog/haze that she doesn’t realize (or care!) about what people think. Unfortunately, you are the “victim” (in this way) of her behavior. We all were victims - and for some of us (Wallace and I in particular) our kids had to go through that too. As for getting papers from her - what are the laws in your state regarding D ? Is there a waiting period? Does legal separation have to be filed first?

Wallace - I seem to recall not that long ago that your GF exH was calling her or showing up at her house. Were these issues not taken care of then? Is it possible she’s enjoying attention from two men? While I have attention from none? LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hope everyone has a great Labor Day...I’ll be around, not much going on here except seeing H on Saturday morning.

<small>[ September 02, 2004, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/03/04 03:20 AM
Hi again everyone,

I thought I would pop on in here and see if anything was new going on... and I see Wes posted while I was either writing or having to stop writing to take care of a few things while I was at work.

Wes...

A WS knows no boundaries when they are caught up in an "A".

In other words... they don't care what is going on around them, as long as they are getting their current desires met.

My exW did a lot of her dirty work during the day, so as not to bring about any suspicion upon herself. She in fact (and I'm not kidding) went through 18 jobs in a little less than 2 yrs.

At that time, I couldn't understand what the problem was with her losing almost a job a month in such a short duration of time. But after everything came to light (which was about 3 days after her moving out) that she was having an "A" (which I never suspected), in addition to the other many things she was involved in... all of the puzzle pieces were very quickly put together.

I guess the sad part of it all... is you start hearing things from all over the place after all the damage has been done.

It is a devestating thing to go through, make no mistake about it. But you as a person need to hold yourself up, say as many prayers as needed and walk the walk, and do your best to maintain some sense of being while all this is going on. As time goes on... it will taper off... and you will find a sense of being human again... it's going to take some time, and there is no quick fix for it.

Watch your finances... because if you don't... you will find your self in a mess that you can't believe.

avondale...

Your memory serves you well... because her exH has been coming around (and not to see his kids) more than I care for... and she knows that he irritates me.

UPDATE: She called my cell phone, and I didn't answer it (I was in heavy traffic congestion coming home from work, and I just didn't feel like talking to her at that point in time).

When I got home, I called her.

She told me that he left at about 1:00 p.m. (he was there for about four hours). He never did get his supposed phone call... so he made a call to his G/F's Dad, and of course he wasn't available. Then according to my G/F, he called his G/F, and she stated that she really wasn't sure if she wanted him to come out there to live.

This gets real involved, and it's really a long story about this guy, and I'm not up to writing a novel about how big of a loser this guy is but I'll summarize the following;

1. He was suppose to move to Illinois to live with his G/F and her Dad, because he had his hours cut to 30 hrs. a week, and decided to quit his job. (His G/F moved away several months ago... because she lost her job from the same place... imagine that! Sounds like someone I was married to).

2. he draws out all of his retirement, after spending all of his money that he received from his half of the house, and is going to move and try to find a new job.

3. He puts in a call to her Daddy (which he decides not to take), and then calls his G/F shortly thereafter to tell her he is on his way over to Illinois.

4. She tells him, that she is not sure she wants him coming out there, and my G/F is sitting there while he is on the phone, and she hears the whole thing.

5. According to my G/F, my G/F tells him that he needs to go and look for a new job in Illinois, because she said he dumped his apartment, has a truck loaded with all of his stuff in it... with no where to go.

Now does this sound like a screwed up mess or what?

In so many words... I told my G/F to get rid of him once and for all... or I'm all done.

If I get one ounce of anything that I feel is inappropriate that may have happened between these two... I'm will dump her so fast she won't even know what hit her.

I'm watching this whole scenario very closely... and trust me... if this clown shows back up to her house again... I'm going to call it a day.

She wants to get together tonight because she knows I have a four day weekend... but I really don't want to see her right now. Plus she started to pressure me about getting married again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Anyway... that's it in a nutshell for the moment... I'm sure there is more to come... and when that happens... that's when I say, "bye bye".

She may in fact think she has two men.. but in fact she may have none.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/04/04 11:43 AM
Hi all!

Wes: As the others have said, as long as the WS are getting their needs met, they don't care what other folks think. They will do anything.

Wallace: It will be interesting to see whether your GF supports her ex with financial support. He is coming around for a reason. Besides, the guy is a user.

Later.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 09/04/04 10:40 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> relady writes:

EC

I'm not sure if you're still around. We will certainly miss you and your words of wisdom. And I don't think anyone was curious or even concerned about your ethnicity.

I will have to warn you though, it's not that easy to leave. You will always think of us and eventually come back. I speak from experience. It feels like family.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">relady is right, it's not that easy to leave! Somewhere on the recovery board, they talked about a reuinion board where people post. I had the link but had trouble getting into the thread. EEEEKKKKSSSS hopefully its not personal!

-----------------------------------------------
Me - just concentrating on me. Real estate is going well, the kids are back in school and soccer - we may get hurricaine frances here - but who knows.... it keeps changing.......

Gotta run & get YS, just couldn't resist posting in response to relady's comment to EC

EC - Blessings to you wherever you may be

D.
Posted By: laura_lee Re: Tough Love - 09/05/04 04:19 AM
Hey Wallace,

What's new with me? Not a whole lot. I'm still working at the same place I've been at for the past 5 years. But I am going to buy a house back in my old town.

I'm over, I believe, my "commitmentphobe" tendeencies - D, no marriage from H, side effect. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Had an unusual night Friday night. Not a person to go to the bar. A friend and I decided to check out a new bar/restaurant because we want to try country linedancing and they have classes Wednesday nite.

Interesting night! The guitarist kept giving me this "look"... then he has me sing along with the band, (I'm laughing), comes over to play his guitar at our table, joins us during break and gives me his card. What!?!!! Am I 21 again? Didn't this stuff happen when I went to the bar... ummm... a number (let's not say the number) of years ago?

Decided, as I decided back then, going to the bar was probably not the best idea. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Oh... I was a good girl and all that.

It was unique, though. It was like stepping back into a time machine... stuff that happened years ago... happened again.

I'm a tad too old to have "guys from the band" hit on me!! lol

Glad to hear you survived the cat attack.

Talk to you later.

Laura
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/07/04 11:29 AM
Well, here’s the update of my weekend visit from H - On Saturday morning he came over and got things we had agreed to. Actually went through several rooms. I was doing great UNTIL he opened a drawer which had some photos taken the last few years of our marriage - pics of trips including our 25th anniversary, Thanksgiving with both our families, etc. He was just sorting through them and I’m not sure what got me started crying - either his blase attitude (ignoring these trips which he planned) or the fact I was reminded that I’ll miss traveling, or what...but I had to leave the room for a few minutes to compose myself. But ever the glutton for punishment, I called him Sunday and suggested he come back and go through a few more rooms on Monday. My thinking was “why drag this out more than necessary, I want to be able to move on”. So now everything except the garage and the main closet where 25 years of photos are has been taken care of. I guess we’ll have to make copies of photos - what did y’all do ?? He agreed to the appraisal I got of the house <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , so now I need to figure out how to “buy out his share”, and I’m not sure how that works. I will make appt. with lawyer and home inspection guy this week.

How was everyone's weekend?? We escaped Frances here in NC. Petvet , I think you and WGTT might be in the path...?

<small>[ September 07, 2004, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 09/07/04 08:50 PM
I still haven't recieved notice or papers from my wife, but
I just got an email from my W saying.......

I need to get some of my things from the house. I need my bed, the rest of
my clothes, my washer and dryer and my serving peices b/c I am helping
w/Leigh's baby shower. D****, my dad, K****, and I are going to come by
Wednesday night while you are at class. Please leave the glass door and
storage shed unlocked. I just think it would be easier if I come and get
these things while you are not there because I need my friends and family to
help and I just don't want things to be awkward. Please reply to my email
and let me know what time your class starts and ends.


I don't know if I should allow this, or if I should be present while she is there getting stuff to keep watch on everything. Any opinions?
I tried to get my lawyer, but he's supposed to call me back. My heart is going wild now, and I'm very nervous.

Everyone I talk to so far says not to allow it without me or someone here for me. The washer and dryer are in our storage building and are not used, and the bed is our guest bed, which both came from her parents. The serving pieces were wedding gifts. It seems like she is trying to be in charge, and I don't know that I should allow it, and I believe everything should be written down or atleast discussed. I tried calling her cell phone for the 1st time in several weeks, and wasn't surprised with no answer.

I also think this is kinda short notice, and she has obviously planned it out.

Wesley

<small>[ September 07, 2004, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: VolkWes ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/07/04 09:55 PM
Wes -
The first thing to establish is - are these things really “hers”? If you agree (she brought them prior to your marriage), then the best case scenario is for you to be there, and to not create a scene. Don’t whine, don’t cry, don’t argue. If she has people to help move things, then just be there, out of their way. I definitely think you should be on the premises because, to be honest, you can’t trust her or her friends. WS aren’t rational, and she may take something, or snoop in YOUR stuff. I think if you could mention at some point in the evening, with or without others hearing it, that you want to work on your marriage, and want her to give it a chance, etc. , that would be good. Nothing more or less, and it would once again reiterate something positive.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/07/04 10:05 PM
Wes -
Ooops, we cross-posted...she has every right to the things that came from her family. But I'm confused. What has she been sleeping on since she moved out? Does she have her own apartment or is she living with her parents? Why does she need a bed now (and not before)?

You are right, it does seem that she has planned it out (by getting help organized) and it was too short notice. It won't hurt to get it in writing what she wants, but if you push that, it may backfire and she'll get angry.

Some spouses change the locks to the house, but that sends a whole other message to the WS and I don't know if you want to do that yet.

I would tell her that you understand there are a few things she wants AT THIS POINT, and you will be glad to let her into the house yourself. You would prefer her to not be there when you aren't there, so you will arrange to miss class (?) or she can choose another night. You do feel that this is too soon to do any serious dividing, because you want to work on your relationship and are hoping she will want to, also.
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 09/07/04 10:10 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What has she been sleeping on since she moved out? Does she have her own apartment or is she living with her parents? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has supposedly been staying with her friend, who has been currently living at home with her parents. She is one of the ones coming with her. I'm assuming they may be getting a place together.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would tell her that you understand there are a few things she wants AT THIS POINT, and you will be glad to let her into the house yourself. You would prefer her to not be there when you aren't there, so you will arrange to miss class (?) or she can choose another night. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's what I'm leaning toward. Surely she can wait another day or 2. I'm sure she's not gonna like that answer, and is probably expecting me to just let her have her way. I am thinking about calling her father and expressing that to him also. It is almost a 2 hour drive for him to come. I really think that is too many people for the few things that she mentioned. The washer and dryer are apartment size and her and one other person can get them. I'm suspecting that she wants to take the dining room furiture, and other things for her to have that many people.

<small>[ September 07, 2004, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: VolkWes ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/07/04 10:49 PM
Hi All,

Hope everyone had a good "Labor Day" weekend... mine was too short as usual. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

avondale...

I can only imagine how you felt when your "H" was there going through some of the things that I know has some very personal feelings behind it (especially pictures). I haven't looked at any of our family pictures since my "D"... too painful.

I would try to get the seperating of the personal items over and done with ASAP. No sense having to go through that over a long period of time... to much of a heartbreaker.

Wes...

If your "W" is out of the house... I would not let her back in without you or someone you can trust entirely to watch every move she made. I would change the locks, and deal with the outcome.

She is in a position to really dictate just about anything she wants at this point in time. Legally she has every right to enter the house at this point unless you can prove to the authorities that your legally seperated, or your in process of filing a seperation. Most of the time... the authorities will not want to get involved in a civil matter... and they may side with you about not having her come into the house... if you can show cause.

Good Luck... your in a tough spot right now. I would try to reason with her that you would like to be there when all of this transpires and see what her comment to that is.

Laura_Lee...

I know how you feel when you say that somethings pop-up and you feel like your twenty one years old again... I've ran into that myself several times myself.

Sounds like you had a great time!

I had a great Labor Day weekend myself.

Me...

Quick Update:

Well my G/F's exh did in fact leave.

I told her... the only sad part about the whole thing IMO... is he will be back... sooner than she could possibly imagine.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/07/04 10:52 PM
Wes
The reason she has so many people coming to help may be just as much for moral support as to actually carry things away. Why not tell her you love her, and if she needs any extra help other than 2 people, you can help out? That would fall under "Plan A" if you can pull it off without having an emotional breakdown <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Is that too much for you? Be honest, only you can answer that!
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 09/08/04 02:34 PM
I have yet to reply to her, but I will soon I guess. Otherwise she's likely to just come anyway.
My attorney is in court today, and I wanted to see what he had to say about it, since I have yet to receive anything from her legally. I'll update later with more info
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/09/04 01:05 AM
Hey Everyone,

Wes...

I would definitely talk with your attorney before anything transfers from your home.

We are talking about marital assets here, and no single person can just come in, and decide they are going to take this, that, or any other item they so chose without a court order.

Each State is different... but most States will only allow a person to take the items that they need in order to survive... especially if it's their decision to leave the home. Unless it's agreed upon by both parties in advance that they can have this, but they can't have that. I believe they can only take what is the absolute necessary items that they need... nothing more. Beds, furniture and the like are off the table until it has been agreed upon by either both parties or a Judge rules who gets what.

You need to talk to your attorney... and I wouldn't take a lot of time doing it... and I would not let her in to get anything until you have.

avondale...

When are you and your "H" suppose to get together for the next round of splitting things up?

That's gotta be tough stuff to have to go through that.

I said an extra prayer for you today... you are in my thoughts, and I know what your feeling.

(((((avondale)))))

Petvet...

I assume everything is going well for you. I'm glad to see that your doing well.

So have you two set a date yet for getting "M"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady...

Interest rates are getting ready to go up again... and here I was thinking about buying another house... but I'm not sure if I want to get stuck with a higher interest rate when I do (which might be about June of next Year).

What's the talk in the Real Estate Industry at this point?

Are they looking at a soft market coming with interest rates going up... possibly home prices dropping, or does everyone think it will stay the same?

WGTT...

It seems like you are doing well too.

Glad to hear that your business is taking off.

What's your thoughts on the Real Estate market within the next 9 months?

Leah, Trusting Him, EC, (and I know your still out there), and anyone else...

Let us know how you are making out when you get a chance.

Me...

Well my G/F's exH called her last night "collect" from Illinois at about midnight last night.

I knew it wouldn't take very long for this guy to resurface.

He's sleeping in his car with no job, and no place to go, and wants to get back with my G/F and try it again.

I told her for the last time... get rid of this guy or I'm gone... it was my final word on it.

Hope everyone is hanging in there.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ September 08, 2004, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 09/09/04 02:35 PM
I let my W know yesterday through E-mail reply that if she wants anything from inside the house that I am going to be present when she comes. She actually called me later in the day. It was the first time I have heard her voice or even heard anything from her in about 4 weeks I guess. It was nice to hear her on the phone. She didn't like my idea of me being there, and tried to talk me into letting her in without me there. I didn't back down. She said she'd have to call me back and let me know when she rearranges things with who was helping her. I also let her know that she didn't need to bring so many people, and that if she needed any more help than her dad, that I will be there and can help. The washer and dryer are tiny apartment size ones, and the bed is a lightweight full size bed.

I aggree that she can have these few things that she is wanting. The washer and dryer which actually belong to her parents are just collecting dust in my storage building in the back yard since I bought new ones a couple of months before she left. and the bed is in our guest bedroom and was hers before we married.

I am thinking of writing up a paper for her to sign saying what items she is recieving when she comes. If she is bringing someone to help her then I am going to have someone there as a witness for me too. My attorney was in court yesterday, but I'm gonna try to reach him again today, or talk with his assistant.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 09/10/04 01:46 AM
UUUGGHHH-

I will be filing for a legal separation to protect me and the kids financially from any more harm. Have to work out some details before it actually happens.

A friend has been helping me as a real estate assistant and to work thru the mound of "stuff" that has to be done. While doing an expense reimbursement of WH's she showed me exactly what WH has been doing. He's into coke big time. She showed me where he would binge for days, not eat, buy liquor at gas staitions so bar/ liquor store recpts wouldn't come up. She knows all this because she used to do what WH is doing, now she's in recovery. Even thought I suspected it still felt like a ton of bricks. I would never have seen all that in the expense report, but when she explained it, then it all made sense.

My friend told me that WH is very far into his disease and get myself loose or he'll take us all down. She could tell by how much money he spent how much he is using.

The bank froze my personal account because our joint account is so far overdrawn. I haven't used that account for a long time but apparently WH used it when he was on the road for "business"
Another hump to work thru.

Keep me in your prayers. I know by the grace of God that I will be OK, but it's getting to that point.

Thank God for alanon - I need that noon meeting on Friday!

Gotta go, have lots to do
AND PRAY THAT HURRICAINE IVAN GOES A DIFFERENT DIRECTION THAN THE PANHANDLE OF FLORIDA OR WEAKENS MIRACULOUSLY.

Thanks!

D.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/10/04 02:10 AM
WGTT- I'm so sorry to hear about what's going on. I've thought about you with the recent hurricanes and will certainly pray that Ivan goes back to sea! If you are certain of the facts about your H, you are doing the right thing to protect yourself financially. You don't need your credit and financial records frozen or taken advantage of due to personal problems of that serious nature.

Wallace - Well, I've heard you say it many times before: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">it was my final word on it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If I had time, I'd find all the times I've read that and post the dates for you to see. You are a big teddy bear, LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Relady - How was San Diego? Are you doing OK? I pray the Lord will keep your spirits up during this more "official" transition time.

Wes - I'm a little confused with your use of "my storage building" and "I bought new W/D". Do you and your W have totally separate banking accounts? Be careful about requesting her to sign papers about what she's taking, (1) because if they were in her family, they're hers anyway, and (2) signing a paper conveys a serious stance, which often is reserved for later, after you've been separated a while. Your situation is still so fresh - heck, your MARRIAGE is still new too - that I still think there's hope...Be careful to not get antagonistic (signing papers can be construed that way) so early in the separation, it won't help in the long run.

Me - My lawyer says I should be getting alimony, and her estimate of what I should expect (I'll start by asking for more, then allow him to talk me down <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ) seems fairly generous. I will be speaking to a banker tomorrow about mortgages, and will see my dad this weekend to get his input as to how best to proceed financially. I will talk to H later next week, and will have more to report then (because I'll have an actual alimony figure AND proposed mtge buyout numbers to share with him).

Leah, Trusting, Petvet, EC, anybody else ....have a good weekend.

<small>[ September 09, 2004, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/10/04 05:53 AM
Hey All,

I hope everyone had a great weekend.

I'm doing good, in fact, I surprised myself. I filed my final papers, sent copy to 'official' XH and now I await the Judge's signature. San Diego was great, weather beautiful.

School started Wednesday, so I'll be too busy to think again. Why in the world do I need 'applied quanitative analysis'?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Avondale

Thank you for your prayers. Believe me, they are much appreciated. I am praying for you as well. I hope all goes according to God's perfect plan, which we know He has. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace

When interest rates are low, home prices are high. When interest rates are high, home prices are down. So, it is a matter of personal preference. We're all waiting for those who got 100% financing to 'adjust' and walk away! it always happens. They barely get in at 3 1/2% interest for three years and at the end of that time it goes up to 6%. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Of course they can't make the payment and the bale out.

As soon as things settle down a bit, I'll be looking for a new home or maybe a four-plex. I want my money to work when I don't feel like it!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet

I hope all is well with you! We need a wedding, we need new dresses!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

VolksWes

Listen to those who have been there before you. They are all good suggestions.

WGTT

Sorry to hear you're taking that additional dreaded step. We must do what is natural first and let God take care of the rest. He is your strength.

Hello everyone else.

relady
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 09/10/04 12:40 PM
Avondale - I guess I referred to the storage building as mine I guess because she has never had anything to do with it or any of the stuff out there, and she never liked the looks of it either. Its where I keep the lawnmower, yard tools, and a few other things.

As far as making a list of things that she was taking, I was not going to include the Bed or washer and dryer, but thought I needed to have record of the Aurthur Court serving pieces and silver stuff that she is wanting to use for a friends baby shower. These items were given to US as wedding gifts, and figured there might need to be a record of where they are incase things have to be divided later. I will re-think making this list though now. I may just take some photo's before she gets any of that just for my record.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/11/04 01:05 AM
Hi All,

Well I made it through another high octane work week... and now it's time for me to relax! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WGTT...

I'm sorry to hear that your "H" is still using, as well as going down a hole he probably will never get out of.

He's doing cocaine (did I spell that right?)

How old is your "H"? Cocaine... booze
non- stop... does he have a death wish?

Your "H" needs some serious help by the sounds of it, and unfortunately... it's not something you can do by yourself. He needs some serious professional help.

As sad as I am to say it... you are doing the right thing. When they get like that... they will take everyone and everything down with them while all this continues.

My exW burned through over $353,000.00 plus and didn't have a thing to show for it... and to this day... still doesn't.

Extra prayers for you WGTT.

avondale...

Well it pleases me to hear that your going to be getting alimony... and yes, you always start out high in what you want and negotiate from there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I think with the appraisal that you have... and your going to keep the house and buy out your "H"... I think that is a very wise move. That's what I did (even though I didn't have to pay any addional money to my exW), and I have absolutely no regrets at all in doing just that.

I hope everything goes well for you in your negotiations, and that your pleased with the outcome in spite of all that has happened... you deserve whatever you can get. I'm a firm believer that a WS should pay one way or another for their actions. First they pay here on Earth... and then they have to answer to the Lord.

It's not vengence... it's Justice!

Changing directions now... your right... I have said, "and that's my final word on it" ump teen bazillion times on this thread... LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My G/F has decided that she is not going to let her exH and his actions... enter into our relationship anymore (we will see, I'm not holding my breath on that one).

I did tell her though... I wouldn't even consider marrying her so long as this clown of an exH is still involved in her life.

We are on shaky ground at best, until she cuts loose of her exH. I don't like to share any woman that I'm involved with... just call me old fashion! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

relady...

You sound pretty upbeat and that's a good thing.

Away time for yourself will do that for you. I think I need some more away time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Well you mad the final move in your "D", and now it's just a matter of time now. As sad as that is... it does in fact open other doors for you as time goes on.

You have it pretty well together, and somewhere down the line... you will probably get involved in another relationship. I don't think we have to worry about you picking the wrong guy the next time around... at least I hope not.

Your in my prayers relady... hang in there... you will be just fine IMHO.

Thanks for the info on the Real Estate market. I'm probably going to buy another house sometime next year... but I would like to see the prices level off first before I do.

Wes...

Have you talked with your attorney yet? If so... what has he said to you about all of this.

avondale is right... don't throw out a list on her of things that she taking... especailly the small stuff (even if it was a wedding gift) it will just make her upset, and not help your situation one bit.

You do need to be there though... as it might make for possible conversation in a positive manner, as well as making sure she doesn't empty the whole house.

The things she brought into the "M", are hers... plain and simple and she can take those without your consent. Marital property (the big things), are what's off limits.

You do in fact have what might be your last oppurtunity to save your "M".

If and when she does come over to get her things... you are going to need to be able to step up to the plate and try hitting a home run with her, to see if she will change her mind.

Look your best, be cordial, don't beg or act needy, in fact you need to present yourself to her just as you did when you first met her.

No "LBing"! If you do... you will lose.

We have had a few recoveries on this thread, and they are still together as I write this.

You play your cards right... and who knows... you might be another one to go into recovery. I'm not saying that it will happen... but anything is possible when your in this situation.

Petvet, leah, Trusting Him, and I'm sure I've missed a few...

Hope you are all doing well... and that you are in thoughts and prayers.

Have a good weekend everyone!

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 09/13/04 12:14 PM
Well, my W came yesterday afternoon and picked up the things she was wanting. It went alot better than expected I guess. I expected her to have a bad attitude with me, but she was pretty much just emotionless with me. I was as nice as possible, and even helped load the large things. I made a few helpful comments to my W while her friends were outside carrying things out, and actually got a thank you out of her one of the times. I could tell she was trying to avoid having to talk to me, and could tell she didn't want to look at me. Still nothing else has been said about divorce papers, so I'm wondering if she filed or not. I figured it has been long enough that I would have received something by now.

I saw her laughing and smiling with her friend as they drove away, which got to me.

Wesley (feeling dazed)
Posted By: paducah Re: Tough Love - 09/13/04 11:50 PM
New here. Don't know what to do. Heard rumors in 6/04 that my husband was screwing around with someone he works with (we work in the same building). I didn't believe it. Then I found the cell phone bills with over $400 calls over several months to this OW. Tried marriage counseling--he left. We are living in the same house since neither one of us is willing to moveout. He tells me that ,"everything is fine." and that he doesn't talk to that other person. I just don't believe him. he still sits 6 feet away from her. OW has a husband and I am tempted to tell him although i know nothing about him. I have thrown out the D word here and there and I am slowly creeping up on implementing my threat. I just can't take the lies--I dont believe anything he says and i don't believe anything he does. now what? We have no kids together. I am well-educated, attractive and I have a great job with no kids--only 31. Should I move on?
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/14/04 01:13 AM
Hi All,

Hope everyone had a great weekend.

I went looking at houses with my G/F this weekend just to get a good feel for prices and such.

I looked at mostly new homes... which I felt were over priced for what they were offering... these builders are putting up some decent homes (which are all over priced of course) with absolutely no yard. Could you please pass the Grey Poupon mustard! (Hope my spelling was right on that mustard). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I told my G/F... why would I want to buy one of these homes... when my house is just as good, and in many ways better. No passing of the mustard in my neighborhood. We all have pretty good size yards. In fact they are tremendous compared to what they are offering these days.

Wes...

I'm sure you are feeling dazed. It's hard to watch your "W" walk right out the door and laugh about it. I guess she is showing just how inmature she really is... or maybe I'm missing something. When a "M" is breaking up... how could a person of any moral character find anything humorous about it?

You need to start looking after Wesley. I wouldn't concern yourself about her at this point.

If she files for "D", there is nothing you can do about it but to protect yourself financially, and mentally. You need to get together with an attorney... just to see what your options are.

We still haven't heard what your attorney may have said. You need to talk with your attorney and start gearing up for what just may come your way. I would take what happened with your "W" coming over very seriously... because at the moment I'm not seeing the love... at least from her anyway.

IMHO start gearing up Wes... I'm sorry to say.

paducah...

Welcome to the "Tough Love" thread!

Sorry to see that you are here... but there are many good people on this thread and on these boards... so you are in a good place based on what you have posted.

The line you wrote " Everything is fine", that your "H" states sent me back to my "M" with my exW.

She would say something very similiar. When I would ask her what's wrong? Her pat answer was... "nothing, everything is just fine"!

Our "M" went into oblivion with that old and tired answer... so I wouldn't give that answer that your "H" is saying much weight.

I will give you my take on this... some may agree, and some may disagree... but this is my take on making a "M" work.

It takes two to make a "M" work... and they both have to be committed to the "M". If for any reason they are not... then you need to pull back and assess the situation and see what you can or cannot do to put your "M" back together again.

Communication and honesty is essential in having a lasting relationship or "M". Failure on either ones part to fullfill this, and you more than likely will have problems in your "M".

I put these two "EN" as the most important... only because of the fact... if any area in your "M" is lacking... then that's where communication and honesty take over.

Over anything else!

If for any reason you find that you don't have that... such as what you have stated... then you have problems.

When you lose trust in someone your married to, you need to communicate just exactly why they have lost that trust.

If you only get the "everything is just fine" statement, when you know in your heart and in your mind that this could be anything further from the truth... then you need to look at your options.

IMHO, what you need to do... is do what I call a gut check.

By a gut check... you need to break it down to somewhat of a asset versus debit type of accounting scenario.

Put the positives on one side, and all the negatives on the other.

See how it looks after your done, and look to see where you can make improvements in order to put the negatives in the positive column.

If in your mind... you believe after working a good Plan A., that your not seeing any of the negatives go into the positive column, then you need to work a Plan B., and hope for the best at that point.

Only you know what your willing to put up with. Some people can tolerate much more than others.

We are all individuals, and each situation of someone's "M" is just as unique as the next. IMHO there are no set answers... just certain guide lines to follow which have worked in the past.

I would read as much as you can on this site... it's full of good info.

Let us know how your making out... and we will try to give you as much positive direction as we can. We will also give you any bad news that you might expect as well.

Hope everyone is doing well, and I hope you all had a very good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/14/04 01:30 AM
Wes ,
I'm glad you were able to be there, and hold your head high while she moved those things. It's regretable that she laughed, but maybe it was nervous laughter. Try not to take it personally. And what was it your lawyer has actually advised for you? Remember, legal advice is just that - advice. There are other factors to consider too - personal gut feelings, financial considerations, family input, etc...

Paducah ,
I think you might want to also post in the "General Questions II" , "Just Found Out" or "Plan A/B" forums. You will get many more responses. But before you do that, you should read everything on the Marriage Builders site about the MB concepts. Most people don't move to divorce unless they've exhausted all the other options (at least most of the people on this thread didn't). Is there something about the Tough Love concept that caught your attention?
It's difficult to reply to the "Should I move on" question with no previous interaction and little information. So read, read, read... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace - Looking at houses with G/F could be a dangerous thing, LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/14/04 10:12 AM
Hi all!

Avondala: It seems as though things are moving along rather bristly now. If I were you, I would have a bottom alimony fugure that is acceptable and no less. If you have figured on a by out of the house, if you cannot afford to buy out on your own with funds laying around, you will have to refinance the house. It is important if you do have to refinance that you have the alimony figure agreed upon because that figure can be used to get your refinance. I know this process is hard for you because you had hope for so long that things would turn around. Believe me, if WH does not want to stay, let him go, there is light at the in of the tunnel.

Wallace: The exh has to go. He wants your gf to take care of him. Watch to see whether she starts defending him and puts you out of her priority list.

Relady: I don't know what was wrong with Al that night. All I know is that he was in the crowd drinking and singing up a storm.

Wes: See you attorney asap. Be careful and don't argue with her. Take inventory of what she has taken.

Me: No wedding guys. Exw informs me that she is taking me to court because I have taken her rights away with the kid. Angry woman.

Later.
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 09/14/04 11:17 PM
Well my attourney was out Friday so didnt get to speak with him before my W came by, but he called me first thing yesterday morning. I told him what happened and what all things she came and got. He said that with as short as we have been married, and since the stuff she took she had in her possesion prior to the marriage, that there was no problem with her taking those things and that she would end up getting them anyway when and if things are divided.

He was also glad I was present when she came in.
I told him that I still hadnt recieved anything from her or an attorney. After the few times I have spoken to her on the phone before she came by, and the way she acted when she came by, I am starting to question myself and why I am holding on for this woman. She treats me like she doesnt even know me, and is so emotionless. I don't know if this is something that will change with time apart, but I am getting doubtful in any recovery. I have still been wearing my ring (had to move it to my middle finger now due to all the weight loss) but have been debating on if I want to continue. I'm really confused right now with her getting stuff, but nothing said about DV.Wondering if she isn't sure about DV or just doesnt have the money to file right now. It really sucks not knowing where I am headed or how long it is gonna be before I get there.

I hate to say it too, but I wasnt nearly as attracted to my W when I saw her on Sunday as I have been. I feel alot of it is just how I am perceiving things differently, but she appears to have let herself go downhill a bit. Looks to be gaining weight too.

Wesley

I know it has still been a short time apart compared to most of you, but I find myself wondering if I should continue my wait for her.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 09/15/04 06:17 PM
PRAY FOR US IN THE PANHANDLE OF FLORIDA! I evacuated & drove all night to Jacksonville to stay at my oldest son's house. I am soo tired right now and definately too old to be staying up late!!!!! I guess we won't be sailing this afternoon!!!!

WH came home 10 minutes after we left & is staying with the house.

This whole thing is in God's hands.

wqallace
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm sorry to hear that your "H" is still using, as well as going down a hole he probably will never get out of.

He's doing cocaine (did I spell that right?) I think so - but I'm so tired right now...

How old is your "H"? Cocaine... booze
non- stop... does he have a death wish? He's 52 years old & looks like HELL when he comes home. By the time he leaves he looks pretty good and then starts all over again

Your "H" needs some serious help by the sounds of it, and unfortunately... it's not something you can do by yourself. He needs some serious professional help.

I have put him in Gods hands, I pray for him to get clean & sober but I cant do it for him

As sad as I am to say it... you are doing the right thing. When they get like that... they will take everyone and everything down with them while all this continues.

I stll can't close the joint account & they froze my account just before the hurricane. Thankd god for friends - I was able to borrow money to be able to get hurricane supples & to evacuate
My exW burned through over $353,000.00 plus and didn't have a thing to show for it... and to this day... still doesn't.

I think were probably above that figure... it is so disgusting to have literally "blown" or "peed " the money away.

Extra prayers for you WGTT.

THANK YOU WE NEED THEM RIGHT NOW!!!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am going to just unwind on this trip - go top the beach tomorrow.....

My thoughts and prayers to everyone today...

D.
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 09/15/04 06:36 PM
I live in Alabama(but not on the coast), and Ivan is headed this way. My office has already closed for Thursday and Friday, and we are expecting high winds and flooding here where I live. So If I'm not around any the rest of the week or this weekend, then hopefully it's just due to a power outage.

Wish me and my dog luck.

Wesley
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/15/04 07:36 PM
WGTT - I will be praying for you during this hurricane. It looks so big, I know you had to do a lot of prep for it, and packing, without your H. Hang tough! If you need to come farther north, I’m in central NC and would love a visit!

Wes - I will be praying for you also. Will your work load be more difficult next week from the office closing? During this hurricane, an opportunity might arise for you to reach out to your W, such as if she needs help with anything for preparation before or clean up afterwards. If you can do it emotionally, call and check on her. It won’t take much time, and if you’re sincere, she can’t say that you didn’t care.
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 09/17/04 01:25 PM
I was lucky to not get any damage from Ivan, and never lost power for more than 10 minutes. Here are some photos from around my neighborhood and area.

Ivan Photos
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/17/04 08:54 PM
Wes , glad you made it through the storm OK. How did your WW do?
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 09/18/04 08:18 PM
I don't really know. She wont call me back. I guess I could call her parents, but they havent been very friendly since all this. Her father who I have been really close with wouldnt return my call last week. My WW said he doesn't want to get in the middle of anything, so I don't know if I should even try.
Posted By: laura_lee Re: Tough Love - 09/18/04 08:47 PM
Hi Wallace,

Help me here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I saw you say that if the G/F didn't cut all contact with the XH - you were leaving. Then, you're shopping for a house with her. Whassup?

Did she cut all contact?

Me....

Strange. I recently went out with a new guy. He asked if I'd ever been to teh new bar I went to that one night. I was like, Yes. Told him all about how me and my friend had fun... told him how the guitar player gave me his card.

WELL, he says that he wants to take me to dinner there. He did some of the construction... and is close friends with the owner. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Small world.

There's another guy interested in me, too. I'm going to date both of them on a "friendship" basis.

If they want me to get rid of one, they have to give me a reason.

See ya,

Laura
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/20/04 10:24 PM
Hi All,

Wes...

Those are some pretty good pictures! It looks like you were driving around in it... if you were... I'll bet that was a wild ride.

How many MPH winds did all of you get hit with?

Glad to hear that you didn't get any damage. Do you have a lot of clean-up to do?

For the record... when I continued on with my "D"... all contact from her side of the family ended... including contact with my kids as well. It's pretty well standard fair when things like this happens. Everyone feels that they have to chooses sides.

How sad it all really is!

WGTT...

I hope you made out all right with the storm. Let us know when you can, how you are doing.

Laura-Lee...

I decided to take my G/F with me to look at houses with me... because I'm thinking about selling my current house to my son, and I wanted to see what was out there.

It was a bad move on my part taking my G/F with me... because I think I gave her the impression that I was looking for a house for both her and I (which I wasn't). I was looking for a smaller home for myself and my YD... and I evidently wasn't clear enough with her over the last 2 years... that I'm not going to get "M" to her until all the kids are on their own... which will be in about 3 years.

It took her a week to get over that one!

She wants to get "M" like right now... and I know that I'm not ready to do that... and I know she isn't either. She knows that we are not ready for "M"... I just can't understand why she keeps pushing it all the time. The more she does it... the more it pushes me away from her.

Her exH, is Indiana now... and he has called her twice since I told her that I would call it a day if she didn't get rid of him. According to her... he is asking her for money... because he has no job, and supposedly no place to live.

I'm at the point with the whole thing... that I really could care less... I'm that blown out on the whole thing.

She knows, that I'm losing interest in her and the whole situation. I think... it's just a matter of time that I just walk away from the whole thing.

avondale...

Did any of the storm head your way?

Petvet...

I'm with you... no "M" for me for awhile either.

Hope everyone has a great day and a great week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 09/21/04 03:58 PM
HI EVERYONE,

It's always good to read here and keep up with how everyone is doing. I'm hanging in there but still dealing with an ongoing issue with my H. It's about sex or the lack thereof. I wrote about it over in Emotional Needs forum. I'm at a loss of what to do with the whole situation.

Otherwise, things seem to be going pretty well. The girls have been keeping me really busy with school, soccer and other activities. Things seem pretty stable and for that I am grateful.

WES,

Glad you rode out the storm okay. I hope you hear from your wife soon and that things eventually turn around for you both. Hang in there because things will get better in time either way. You are going through some of the hardest days right now. I remember how difficult it was when my H packed all his things and left. It was an awful time. But things did get better. So keep learning and growing and with time you will hopefully find yourself in a better place.

AVONDALE,

I'm still keeping you in my prayers. You, too, have been through a lot with all the meetings and decisions of finances and such. You seem to be doing well and staying strong. Keep looking up!

WALLACE,

I never know what I'll find when I read one of your posts. Either it's just about to end or your ready to tie the knot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But I am hearing not for a few years,at least, right?? Avondales right... you are a big softie inside. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That is part of your charm. I hope things go the way you want them too, whether thats together or not. Take care of yourself and be happy.

WGTT,

Hope you weathered the storm okay and I hope things in your situation have got better. Keep looking to the Lord. He will see you through.

HI TO TRUSTING HIM, PETVET, LAURA, RELADY AND ANYONE ELSE I MIGHT HAVE MISSED. HOPE YOU ARE ALL DOING WELLL.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 09/21/04 06:23 PM
Hi All,

I hope all is well and everyone had a great weekend.

This post is mainly for my 'big brother' 'little brother' Wallace I'm not sure which. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Warning!! This post could be harmful to your computer!! Read at your own risk!

I don't post for a few days and come back and read that you are looking at houses with your GF!!

Over a year ago I posted to you that you were saying and doing things that made your GF think you were ready to get married, while you were telling us "no way". Remember?

I'm going to turn this around for a minute and hopefully you can take a step back and see how it looks.

The first problem were the children not getting along. You threatened to call it off!

She was always talking about getting married. You threatened to call it off!

Her husband is back in the picture, somewhat! You threaten to call it off!

You have played this, come closer, go away game for two years now and she is no closer than she was.

Then there was the leather coat for the very first Christmas and her constant involvement with your family as well as yours with hers.

Now, to the current day when you're looking at houses together!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You can't honestly tell us that you had no idea what kind of impact that would have on her!! If not let me tell you: She wants to get married, you take her to look at houses!! Think for a minute.

I think you are both setting yourselves up for a world of hurt. It's obvious that she has not healed yet or your threats would have ended with the first one and you would be history. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> And you haven't either or your threats would have been carried out.

IMHO, threats are just another form of manipulation.

I also think that you know in your heart of hearts that this is not a match, so why is it that you're continuing again?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I anxiously await your reply (I think <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Sincerely,
Your continued voice of reality
relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/21/04 10:15 PM
Relady (voice of reality)-Thank you for saying everything that I wanted to say but didn’t have time to research and type out. You echoed my feelings PERFECTLY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace , she’s pointing out the obvious. Even if we’re only getting PART of the picture due to the fact this is an online post, and not a real-time conversation, your entire g/f relationship is not on emotionally healthy footing. I think you’ve taken her house-hunting before, and I said those same cautionary words: She can’t help but think about a house WITH you if she’s looking at them with you. And if she gets hurt, ultimately you will too. We don’t want that.

Petvet - Could you explain about what your ex means “taking rights to kid away”? Did something change from your joint custody agreement?

Leah, great to hear from you! Since I haven’t had sex in over 2 years, I’m not the one to respond to your post on EN board, LOL...

WGTT - Let us know you made it through the storm!

Wes - Hope you're having a good week.

Me - I’m meeting with H on Thursday evening. At that time I will present my plan for dividing assets, buying his share of the house (tied together) and also (gulp) alimony. I have to ask for more than I actually want, to play the numbers game. This is not my nature (to not shoot straight from the beginning) but I have to do that so I can settle for what I actually want. I'd appreciate your prayers.

Hi to everyone I missed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ September 21, 2004, 05:17 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 09/23/04 02:54 AM
GREETINGS FROM SUNNY FLORIDA

Hi - our house made it through the storm - the yard has debris all over & a tree across the driveway.

I came home Monday afternoon after searching two days for a generator ( which I found ) The electricity came on 2 hours later (I am NOT complaining) We got phones today. Other than a massive amount of clean up, detours on roads and store shelves not entirely stocked or open, life is back to "normal"

I took youngest 2 kids to stay with oldest in Jacksonville & had a nice time.

Was pretty pre-occupied with all that was going on. 40 miles west really got hit hard so we were really blessed.

Went back to work today & none of the properties that I will be closing on had damage!!! Thank God.

Will post more later.

VW - you must be in Northern Alabama - there are hills!

Avondale - thanks for the offer in NC.

Good night!

D.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/23/04 10:48 PM
Hi All,

I was going to respond the other day to relady's post... but for some reason couldn't log in... and then the rest of the week has been pretty hectic and busy... but guess what? I'm back!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Who will I respond to first... oh that's right!

relady...

I'll break down what you posted by quotes, and then I will answer them the best I can. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Over a year ago I posted to you that you were saying and doing things that made your GF think you were ready to get married, while you were telling us "no way". Remember?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ahhh... that may be so... but as I write this... I'm still not "M", so I have stuck to my word on that one. My G/F wants to think otherwise about "M", but I have always stayed the course... and did not give any preconcieved notions of anything otherwise about "M", IMHO, and I know you and avondale will disagree with me as well about this.

We have talked about getting "M" make no mistake about it. But I know, and she knows that the timing is just not right at the moment for us to get "M".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
The first problem were the children not getting along. You threatened to call it off!

She was always talking about getting married. You threatened to call it off!

Her husband is back in the picture, somewhat! You threaten to call it off!

You have played this, come closer, go away game for two years now and she is no closer than she was.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All true... guilty as charged, with one exception.

She takes 3 steps forward and then 5 steps back, especially when it comes to her exH, trying to get back into the picture. So you are in essence correct that she is not any closer than she was 2 yrs. ago. That is her choice to let him get involved in her life, and if he gets any further into her life and it starts affecting me... she will move that much farther down the ladder, until there is no ladder left to move down to.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Then there was the leather coat for the very first Christmas and her constant involvement with your family as well as yours with hers.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There has been much more in terms of gifts that I have given her over the last 2 yrs., the leather coat was just the tip of the iceberg.

Both her and I are still involved with each others kids, the kids are the ones who don't really care to much for each other. So we don't comingle the kids with each other... and it seems to be working for the time being.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

You can't honestly tell us that you had no idea what kind of impact that would have on her!! If not let me tell you: She wants to get married, you take her to look at houses!! Think for a minute.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I can honestly say that I didn't have any idea that she would react that way... because I really didn't think it would have that kind of an affect on her... and I most definitely know that she wants to get "M", and maybe someday when the kids are gone, and we do decide to get "M", then we can look at houses for us.

In essence... it was my G/F who decided that we should wait to get "M" until all the kids are settled into their own lives. When she brought up the fact that bringing together a mixed family might cause more stress on the "M" that we probably didn't need... I agreed with her, and said, "Your right, so we will wait."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I think you are both setting yourselves up for a world of hurt. It's obvious that she has not healed yet or your threats would have ended with the first one and you would be history. [Big Grin] And you haven't either or your threats would have been carried out.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with what your saying... no disagreement here. However, I wouldn't call what I said threats... they were statements of fact, and if it keeps up with her... I "WILL" in fact follow through with my threat... errrr... statement of fact. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

IMHO, threats are just another form of manipulation.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is where we disagree. I made those statements to her... not as an intended form of manipulation,
I'm not "M", to her, and she is not "M" to me. We are both free to choose the path we want to take... either with each other or apart from each other. I think it's only fair, and she deserves to know what I feel is bringing us closer together, and what may cause us to eventually break-up. I would expect the same courtesy from her, as well.
I want to know when I'm screwing up, and what the ramifications will be. If I continue to do what she dislikes, and she says nothing... IMHO, that's not good.

When there is no communication and honesty in a relationship... the relationship for all intents and purposes... is finished IMHO.

All I'm doing is communicating... and I will follow through with what I said if she keeps it up. I'm not just going to come out of left field and tell her, "well thats it... I'm done... bye!" without her knowing what caused it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I also think that you know in your heart of hearts that this is not a match,

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You may very well be right... I've never said that this was a match made in Heaven... but I'm taking it one day at a time... and if things don't work out... then they don't. I like being single... and getting "M" right now is not one of the things that is at the top of my list of things to do right away.

keep firing away at me... it does give me something to think about... and you may get your chance to say... "See... I told you so!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'll get back to this... and I will respond to everyone else a little later. I've got a few things that I have to do before I leave work tonight.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/24/04 12:36 AM
Hi all, just wanted to report that I met with H and (no surprise) we were approaching the settlement of assets/house in two TOTALLY different ways. Somehow our figures aren't jiving but H thinks it may be his method that's off. I don't understand his, so he's going to review mine to see what the difference is. We're still negotiating alimony but there is hope there, too. Unless his lawyer talks him out of it. Thanks for your prayers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace - your reply was pretty thorough. If you have lavished your g/f with more gifts, I wish you were MY b/f <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 09/25/04 07:00 PM
I'm not doing so good today. My H is away and I have a totally uneasy feeling about everything. I posted some stuff over on EN board. I could use your prayer and support right now. I don't know if my overactive imagination has kicked in or if something really is up. I just want to quit. I'm so tired of the struggle. I don't want to keep going on like this. Maybe it will all seem better tomorrow. I just know this is how I feel today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/27/04 08:32 PM
Hi All,

Well I hope everyone had a good weekend. I know I did... I officially called it off with my G/F today, we are no more. Seh isn't happy about me not marrying her right away, and I wasn't happy about being pressured to marry her... so we agreed to break up for good.

I had written a nice long post on Friday, but I lost my electricity just when I was getting ready to post.

WGTT...

Glad to hear that your somewhat back up and running after the storm. How did you make out with this last one that just came through? Hope everything is well.

avondale...

Have you gotten together with your attorney concerning these negotiations? I'm sure you have.
My prayers are with you.

Leah...

I'm a firm believer to always go with your gut feel. If you think somethingisn't right... your probably correct.

relady...

You can say I told you so... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

This little scenario will most probably bring my dating to a close for quite some time. I'm like being single and doing my own thing. I really don't need someone in my life at this point in time... if ever.

I think I will just enjoy life, and take things as it comes.

Petvet...

Hope thing are going well for you.

Well I hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 09/27/04 09:29 PM
Leah - I posted on your thread on the EN board a few days ago. I hope things are better for you today.

Wallace - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> you said :
I officially called it off with my G/F today, we are no more.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I honestly can’t tell - Is this a joke? Maybe you’re saying that to get all of us off your back... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet - How are things? What is the latest about your “former” and custody?

WGTT - Did you make it through Hurricane Jeanne too? I have heard that life in Florida makes up for the occasional hurricane, but you’ve got to be weary by now. I hope any properties in your care are OK.

Trusting - Are you still around? How are things?

Wes - What is new with you?

Me - Well, weekend went sour when H sent an email telling me he figured out the reason for differences with the house settlement and I owe him $50,000! (This is way off by my calculations.) I stressed so much Saturday, I could tell my blood pressure was high just driving the car to go shopping... Then, fortunately, he saw his error, and wrote saying that, and will be glad to go by the figures my lawyer drew up (which truly were to his benefit). Next on my plate: alimony negotiations this week. I got a worksheet from my lawyer and was surprised to find out that I should even include personal expenses like birthday gifts, hair cuts, clothing, etc... so that’s what I’m going to do. I absolutely hate playing this “negotiating game”. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 09/27/04 11:42 PM
AVONDALE

I'm so sorry you're having to go through all the negotiation stuff right now. I can only imagine how difficult and stressful that must be. Keep looking to the Lord to see you through. I'll keep you in my prayers.

Just thinking of trying to do that with H in addition to custody of the girls, makes me feel ill. I still hope and pray it doesn't come to that for us. Although if I have to, I know God will give me the strength I need at the time. Thanks for posting on the EN thread. I appreciate your concern.

WALLACE,

Wow, did you really call it quits? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Is this for good? You seem like you're doing okay with your decision. That's good. It will be interesting to see if it's really over or if you all miss each other too much to stay apart. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Either way I wish the best for you. I know all about how tough these decisions can be. You mentioned to me that you would go with your gut feeling. That's my problem, my gut feeling seems to change all the time. Sometimes I'm so sure, then other times, I really don't have a clue if anything is admiss. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

WGTT, RELADY, PETVET, TRUSTING HIM , WES,
AND ALL OTHERS,


I hope you are all doing well. If you're located near the huricanes, you have both my sympathy and prayers. I look forward to hearing good things from all of you.

ME

Today is a better day after a very difficult weekend with my husband. Or rather I should say without my H. He was travelling and was very unavailable plus some other red flags. I truly don't know if everything is on the up and up or not. As I've written before, there has been a total lack of intimacy for nearly ten months now. That plus history, plus extensive travelling make me very uneasy.

We had a lot of conversation about it all today. I spoke about feeling like I'm truly reaching my limit, and that some things need to change. There was a lot of anger of his part but there were also some good things that seemed to come from the conversations.

I'm rereading Love Must Be Tough and am just trying to establish firm yet loving responses and boundaries. I know changes must happen if I am to be a peace in this relationship. Otherwise, I need to say good-bye. It's difficult to be the one to call it quits, but I'm starting to think that it might be easier than living like this. ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS?????

Thanks for listening and caring. Hope everyone has a good week.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/28/04 10:07 AM
Hi all! I had not meant to be away so long, but I could never get a chance to get to post.

Firstly, I hope all the folks who had to deal with nature's wrath made it through ok. I have been catching the tropical storm aftermath fron the hurricanes. I guess the SE has caught up with its rain deficit.

Wallace: You are catching it again from the Tag Team (Relady & Avondale). It seems you have things under control with your GF, but it does not look so from the outside.

Avondale: I bet you and your H figures are off with the alimony. It will be interesting to see what happens at your next meeting. Is the other woman still around?

Me: Exw is trying to maneuver her way into full custody of kid. I will fight like hell to keep things as is besides she is working on kid to get him to side with her. I have been in consultation with my attorney.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 09/29/04 05:22 AM
Hi All,

I have been having a hard time getting logged in... is anyone else having this problem, or is it just me?

As far as me calling it quits with my G/F, I wasn't kidding. We actually agreed to stop seeing each other. It didn't last long however. My G/F called me about 5 hours later, and said she didn't want this to happen (not seeing each other ever again).
So we talked about 3 hours over everything in order to make sure she could see my reasoning for not wanting to get "M" at this very moment... as well as me trying to understand her position as well.

I still don't understand her reasoning, and I told her as well. I do think she sees why I am not wanting to get "M" right now, and she says she is willing to accept it (Only time will tell on that one).

She said she wants to see more commitment from me... and in her eyes, getting "M" to her is the ultimate commitment. I told her commitment comes from the heart, not from a piece of paper that says your "M".

After all... I had a piece of paper, she had a piece of paper, we all had a piece of paper... and we all see where that got us for commitment.

We worked through our differences... and we are going to give this another shot. I think we will be just fine, and I will probably "M" her, probably sometime next year, just as long as she doesn't keep pressing the "M" issue.

So we will see what happens.

relady, you've been awfully quiet... I'm ready for you and avondale to give me the business on this one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

avondale...

Luckily for me... I didn't have to go through what your going through as far as negotiations, but my time may be coming up this January.

Seems like you got a major part of it out of the way... my prayers will be with you that you get what you need and are asking for on the alimony.

leah...

Your doing the right thing by communicating your feelings to your "H". Keep doing that, and stay the course with what you have been doing.

10 months without any "SF", is a long time for any man or woman to go without. Something is not right in that area. I would keep my eyes open on that one.

Petvet...

What prompted your exW to go for sole custody of your "S".

Do you think it's a vengance move on her part?

Glad to hear that you got your attorney rolling with you on this... this could get ugly.

It just never seems to end... huh?

I'm not sure if I have things under control with my G/F or not. Just when you think things are going O.K., there not.

At this point... I'm just winging it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope everyone has a great day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 09/30/04 09:59 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: All I can say about your GF issue is keep working at it. It is either going to work or it's not.

Me: Ex wants to have joint custody with me. I have no idea what her motives are, but I and others believe she is saying bad things about me to the kid. I believe her move is a premptive strike because she thinks I may get married soon. My attorney said that she will have a hell of a time getting custody. She will probably make her situation worst.

Later.

Later.
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 10/01/04 03:04 AM
Feel like I got lost for a while there.........I know I haven't posted in a while. All is well here I guess. I had a short conversation with my W on the phone this week. It was pretty much business like. Letting her know about car insurance. It was actually a very civil call. I tried to be as nice as possible, and asked how she had been. She did the same, and thanked me for letting her know about the insurance. Shes mailing a check to me. Nothing has been said about DV since last month, but I don't know if that means anything.

I cant remember who asked, but I'm Birmingham. I believe it may have been WGTT

Wesley

<small>[ September 30, 2004, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: VolkWes ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/01/04 05:20 AM
Hey All,

Hope all is well, especially with those in vicinity of the hurricanes.

My timeshare in the Bahamas was hard hit, so they won't be open for business until sometime in middle 2005. Yikes! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Avondale

Sometimes it feels like it will never end. Just remember that "the end of a thing is better than the beginning." As long as you and your H are on talking terms (regardless of the subject) there is always hope. I'm sure you've bought new clothes and perfume for these meetings, right? Make him sweat!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet

Is your XW paying child support? And is it reduced if you have joint custody? Maybe that's her reasoning. I'm sure your son won't believe her lies. He's been with you too long. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Volkwes

Great pictures! Glad to hear that you and your wife are at least on cordial terms. My X and I haven't spoken in over 2 years.

Leah2be

I'm sorry to hear about your situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We had a lot of conversation about it all today. I spoke about feeling like I'm truly reaching my limit, and that some things need to change. There was a lot of anger of his part but there were also some good things that seemed to come from the conversations.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whenever I used to bring up anything to do with feelings and lack of intimacy, my X would hit the roof. I later learned that it was used to get me to stop talking. After awhile, I would just not say anything for fear of upsetting him. Walking on egg shells is a terrible place to be. Be sure to take care of yourself and get plenty of exercise. It definitely helps.

Wallace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I officially called it off with my G/F today, we are no more. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, right!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">relady...

You can say I told you so... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would never say that!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My G/F called me about 5 hours later, and said she didn't want this to happen (not seeing each other ever again).
So we talked about 3 hours over everything in order to make sure she could see my reasoning for not wanting to get "M" at this very moment... as well as me trying to understand her position as well.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Are you telling me that she saw your reasoning in 3 hours with you telling her the same thing you have been telling her for 2 years??

Doubt it!

Have your rose-colored glasses been cleaned lately, maybe you should have them professionally done instead of you doing it yourself? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

WGTT

I hope all is well with you. Keep us posted.

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/01/04 11:53 AM
Petvet - wow you really dropped some news there! For some reason I thought you already had joint custody. What makes her think you're going to be married soon? Have you been holding back from us??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Wes - sometimes no news is good. But I'm glad you posted so we know you're OK.

Relady - sorry about your timeshare. Will this hit you financially any way? I thought about getting something new to wear but was concerned that H would think I'm being frivilous with money, so opted for pairing something together in a new way. He did say he liked my new haircut, though.

Wallace - You big ol' teddy bear! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> What can I say other than I knew it was just a matter of time before you waffled again. You must be related to John Kerry, LOL...

Leah - I'm keeping up with your posts on EN board. I hope things have improved for you. Your H's lack of accountability is way beyond what I could put up with. I guess God gives each of us grace to do what we have to do, right?

WGTT - When was the last time you had any serious discussions with your H?

Me - Meeting with H did not go well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> He seems to be stuck on this house buyout/asset division issue where we are using different concepts to arrive at the figure. (And we're getting different figures) I'm not sure if one is wrong, maybe they're both right (?) So that took most of the time and we only discussed alimony for about 10 minutes as we departed. Basically his response was "Well, no way are you getting that". He has appointment with his lawyer next week to show her what we discussed. So I'm still on hold, and can't even move on the mortgage yet.

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

<small>[ October 01, 2004, 06:55 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/01/04 04:27 PM
Hey All,

Avondale

The storm didn't hurt me financially yet. My timeshare is paid for, the only thing they could possibly do is raise the maintenance fees which are currently $450.00 per year.

How are you and your H arriving at different figures for the house? Is there much difference between your appraisals?

Are you substracting the loan on the house from what it would sell for? That is the equity and then you divide by two.

Money certainly makes the 'ugly' come out in people.

Everyone, Have a great and wonderful weekend.

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/02/04 02:35 AM
Relady
H agreed to use the same appraisal (but could change his mind). You have hit the core of the problem, determining when the equity is established. My lawyer is doing it your way. Then separately, the retirement & investments (all are from H) are divided right down the middle too. H can pay me those investments or I can reduce the amount I need to buy his share of house.

His lawyer told him (or the way he understood it to be) was to add appraisal value of house with retirement investments and then divide in half. Each of these halves is our respective total assets. Then subtract half of remaining mortgage and half of home equity line of credit from each of our assets. And that's what I have to pay to buy him out.

Even though we're using the same numbers, his way makes me have to pay more <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I'm not sure why. And I don't know if both ways are correct and it's up to whoever "wins" as to which way it goes, or if he just doesn't understand the "right way" to do it... ideas, anyone????
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/02/04 06:22 AM
Avondale

Maybe you could negotiate. Ask him to sign off on the house and in return you'll give him the balance subtracting his investments and retirement when you sell the house.

Would it be a wash?


That way he keeps his assets and you keep the house along with alimony. It will also save you the hassle of refinancing.

Does this make sense?

Just a thought.

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/02/04 12:46 PM
Relady <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Thanks for your response. I'm not sure if it would be a wash - and honestly, just thinking about yet another way to work it raises my blood pressure to a dangerous level. I would prefer that we cut our ties cleanly (at least financially) rather than have to interact about assets at some future time. I know y'all understand what I mean. I really am stressed right now and need God's peace!
Posted By: Deja Vu Re: Tough Love - 10/02/04 03:43 PM
FYI - having been there and done that once before, in which I got screwed when the market declined between the divorce and house sale. I would do it this way - have an appraisal done now and figure out the % each person should have coming as of the divorce. Then apply that to the current market when the house is sold.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 10/02/04 10:24 PM
Hello Everyone - Hope you are all enjoying a great weekend!

AVONDALE,

I'm so sorry things have to be so difficult with your husband. I'm afraid I would or will be facing the same thing if it comes to a divorce. The times we tried to negotiate in the past were really difficult. I don't think we agreed on anything, from custody to allimony to splitting assets. I would get to the point that I just wanted to give him whatever to just be done with it. But then, I would think of the girls and their future and knew I had to fight for what would be best for them. Not a fun time. I'll keep you in my prayers.

Thanks for keeping up with me in the other forum. You mentioned God's grace. That is what it all comes down to. I can only stay as long as God gives me the strength and ability to do so. Sometimes I receive that grace better than other times. Sometimes, I just get very determined about wanting so much more. IS THAT SELFISH?? Then I feel guilty for wanting out. I just wonder if it will ever end. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I'm just very ready for it to be different one way or the other. Could it ever be of God to have a marriage such as this one? To the best of my knowledge there isn't infidelity and I did forgive him for the past. Does that mean this is what I now need to accept?? That is hard to do!!!

Thanks for listening, Avondale.

RELADY,

That's interesting that your former husband did the same thing with becoming angry at certain conversations. You are right when you say you tend to keep it all inside which makes for a lot of eggshell walking. I just discouraged and feel like nothing is gained by talking to H because he just gets angry and nothing seems to change. Maybe you could read what I wrote to Avondale. Perhaps you could share your perspective as another Christian lady who has been in the same position.

WALLACE,

So you lasted five hours? Somehow that doesn't surprise me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I hope things improve for you both and that you really are able to appreciate each others perspectives.

Yes, ten months is a loooong time. I am keeping both eyes wide open. It seems it's all about his business right now. It's growing by leaps and bounds and he's so excited. Of course, I could be totally bamboozled by the man. I want to think the best but his personality makes it very challenging. He is not a nine to five kind of guy. He lives life on the cutting edge which tends to make him look suspicious even when he's totally innocent. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

TAKE CARE EVERYONE
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/05/04 12:31 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: On again off again relationships are not a good sign for longevity. Look out! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Avondale: I can tell you situation is going to end up in court. He is going to come out on the short in anyway, so it is in his best interest to work things out.

Relady: Sorry to hear about your timeshare. The islands were hit real hard.

Me: I have full custody, and I am not going to willingly give it up. To be honest, I think ex real motive is to try for full custody and the elimination of CS altogether. It will not be easy for her. The marriage thing came up because I am trying to get an annulment, so she probably think I am heading down the eisle again.

Later.

Later.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 10/06/04 02:38 AM
LEAH-
The anger usualy has nothing to do with you, it's about him. My dad explained by saying that the best defense was a good offense. It took me a few seconds but I got it.

Another time, I was sitting in an open AA meeting listening to a man tell his story. Whenever he wanted to go out and drink, he started a fight. Bingo. That's what my WH had been doing. After that I was determined not to feed into his anger and stayed very calm no matter what. It was pretty funny to see WH after that!

Another Alanon friend was involved in a car accident with her cousin. The cousin's husband is a drinker and came to the scene to tell the cousin that she was an idiot,,,, blah, blah ,blah. Then yelled at my friend. As my friend was relaying this story I had to tell her that being yelled at had nothing to do with her, and everything to do with him. She was finally able to see it from that perspective.

God's grace is the ONLY way I get through life. Right now I am in need of refilling.


Me - The last hurricane through here just blew the most incredible breezes. It was wonderfull just to sit by the water.

All the properties I had under contract are OK, not damage & have started closing this month. Thank God. Now I have to get back to selling real estate. I have a totally separate account now that I put my commissions in.

Wallace - you crack me up!

Avondale - My prayers are with you as you go thru this process.

To everyone else - hope all is well.

D.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 10/06/04 01:08 PM
WGTT

Thanks for sharing an important perspective. I've heard that before but I tend to get taken in by it still. I'm not very confident about myself, so I always question what I'm doing wrong that would cause H's anger and rejection of me.

I understand about needing a refilling of God's grace. That's where I've been of late. I will keep you in my prayers.

I'm glad to hear that your properties are all okay. Take care.
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 10/06/04 07:25 PM
Hello Everyone,

I know I have been pretty scarce around here lately, but my school at night after work is really keeping me busy.
Well I just thought I would stop in and give an update on my situation. There is still no communication or any change between my W and I, and I have decided that I do not want to wait around anymore. I know quite a few of you may think I haven't waited long, but ultimately I have felt alone for nearly a year, even though she was still living there. I am comfortable with my descision, and feel that I put more than enough effort into reconciliation, but still recieved nothing in return. So, I have decided that I am taking the next step on my own, and have an appointment with my lawyer tomorrow. I don't like sitting on my hands an not knowing where my life is going. Now I will feel like I have control of my life again, and will atleast know which direction I am headed. I have come to a point where I am no longer concerned at all with what my STBXW is doing, and I feel that finishing this will take a big load off of me and I will be relieved. I know that I will have some dealings with her before this is all over, but other than that I believe I can begin to actually live my life and not worry about ever having to see her again.

I have done lots of hard thinking this past month, and haven't come up with any reasons as to why I shouldn't do this.

I will probably be around here quite a bit more throughout all of this.

I hope everyone else is doing well, and I will try to get by tomorrow with info on what my lawyer says.

Also, I am going out of town Friday for a wedding in which I am the best man. I am not sure how well I am gonna be able to handle being in a wedding right now, but it is my best friend and I feel I have to give him as much support as I can even though my thoughts on marriage aren't very high right now. I am really nervous about having to give a speech.

Wesley
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/07/04 09:16 PM
Hi All,

Sorry I haven't posted in awhile... but my home computer got a virus in it (I'm still reformatting), and at work our main server went down... so I was without internet for a while.

My house got hit by a pretty bad storm, and now my roof is leaking... so I'm dealing with that as well.

So all in all... it's been a real joy!

But hey!!! My G/F and I are getting along rather well since the big blow-out.

I'm going to have to come back and look at everyone's posts later, as it is pretty busy here at work.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/12/04 10:37 AM
Well we can't let this thread get bumped to page two of the D/D forum! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Wes - Yes, your action did surprise and sadden me. How did the wedding go? I hope you were able to get through it without too many triggers.

Not much new with me, just playing the waiting game. Hubby did talk to lawyer last week and we will get together next Monday when he will have a "counter offer".
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/12/04 11:02 AM
Hi all!

VosWas(Misspelling): Do what you think is best for you and your family. The stress level in these types of things is enormous. I know you have had much time to think things through, and have come to a decision that you can live with.

Avondale: How much negotiation are you willing to go through to settle your situation? You need to ask your attorney whether you could get more by going to court.

Wallace: I hope all is well with your computer issues, roof, and GF.

Me: It seems that some negative things are being said about me by his mother and family to my kid or in earshot of my kid because he has been reacting negatively to me and various things lately. Someone asked whether she pays child support and the answer is yes.

Later.
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 10/12/04 10:01 PM
Well, the wedding went great this past weekend. I am still working on finishing some papers for my lawyer, but hope to have them finished and faxed over to him by tomorrow. I am feeling so much better here lately, and not near as stressed. It feels good to have control over where my life is heading again. That's something I havent had in a long time.

Noticably Happier
Wesley
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/13/04 11:49 AM
Hi all!

VosWas(Wesley): I'm glad you are feeling much better. Taking control of the situation reduces stress alot. This gives you direction.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/14/04 06:11 PM
Hey everyone!

Well my computer is still shot, and my roof is still going through the repai stages... so it's been a busy time at work as well as at home.

avondale...

Sorry to hear that your going through a tug-of-war with your "H", concerning the valuation of your home. Stick to your plan, and don't bufge from it. You will probably only get one shot at it, once you both come to an agreement, so make sure you have everything included, like medical insurance, etc., in your final negotiations.

WGTT...

Glad to hear that you made it through the hurricanes with no damge. I'll bet you were nervous over the whole ordeal.

Hopefully that will be the end of it for a while.

leah...

How are you making out? It sounds like your still having a rough time with your "H".

Pray on it!

I'm in the same boat as everyone else... I need to start puttting God first, and the rest will come. My problem is... I have been hit by everything but the kitchen sink here lately... and I'm sure that will come winging my way here, real soon. I know I'm making excuses, but it's real easy to slip.

Hope everything starts getting better for you.

relady...

So your vacation time share got hit by the hurricane? Ouch!

How does that work on your end with insurance?

Will it affect your costs, or will they just stay the same.

When in 2005 will they have it ready for use for you?

How have you been lately? Haven't seen much from you here lately. Hope everything is going well for you.

Petvet...

What got your exW all stirred up to try to challenge your CS arrangements.

Do you think it's because she's trying to cause problems for you due to your relationship with your G/F?

Sorry to hear that she's trying to turn your son against you. I would try to nip that one in the bud, as soon as you can.

Wes...

Well you went to the wedding and had a good time... glad to hear it!

I'm like you... I'm kinda of sour on "M" right at the moment myself. It's going to take awhile for me to put 23 years of "M" behind me.

Your sounding upbeat about life... and that's a major step to take in order to get you through what your going through.

Keep up the good work, and always try to keep a postive outlook on each day... it helps getting you through the bad days.

I am sure I've missed someone, but I'm at work now... so I don't have a lot of time... and if I did... my apologies.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace


p.s.

My G/F and I are doing all right for the moment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 10/16/04 04:21 AM
Guess who's back?

Greetings all! It sure has been a while since I could make it here and read. It appears that not much has changed since my last visit. I guess that could be good and bad, depending on our personal situation.

Work because of all the hurricanes and storms have kept me extremely busy, almost to busy. That and still trying to figure our how to live at an almost poverty level for income. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But all of that is beginning to fall into place. Just not quite like I had anticipated.

I spoke with an attorney about Chapter 13 and after figuring everything up the only thing it would do is keep the creditors from hounding me. Creditors! Ha! There is only one and that was for my automobile I bought in the midst of all the turmoil and fallout from divorce. Bad Decision. Do NOT make ANY major decisions without wise counsel from another person.

So...I called the creditor and asked them to come and pick up this thing that I cannot afford to drive and managed the purchase of an older but reliable mode of transportation. I guess I'll wait for them to auction off the car and let me know the difference in what I still owe them and then look at Chapter 13 again. But I promise you if I end up speaking with the same lady there again I'll just file Chapter 7. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> It took everything I had in me and everything I have learned over the last few years to maintain my composure with her. She has definitely been in the collection business way to long and thinks that everybody is worthless.

On The Home Front

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Nothing HUGE or Major going on there. The dear former is still involved in her on again off again relationship with the same guy. It's been about three weeks since they have spoken to each other <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ( I wonder if prayer has anything to do with that). But she insists that she is IN LOVE with him and that God brought them together so she could be Happy.

Friday I went to our YD's school to pick her up early and discovered that BF has been added as an authorized person to pick up our children. That hurt, actually that hurt a lot. But I called her later that evening to discuss it with her and it proved to be an intresting conversation. In her words he's just another person that she can trust to pick up our children should the need arise.

I politely pointed out that in the 8 years our children have been in school the only people utilized was either me or her. The school has never had to call the other 5 people on the list (in-laws on both sides and a mutual friend). If you BF was an active part of the children’s lives or if you two were married I might be able to understand it. I also asked her to remove him.

*chuckles* That must have made her day for that was when she accused me of making a HUGE deal out of every little thing and always got mad about it. ( bear in mind that I have not yet raised my voice or displayed any sort of anger). But I also explained to her that we had joint legal custody and that all major decisions that affected the children had to be agreed by both parties, so you can either remove him from the list or we can go back to court. I've yet to hear her answer and it was only later that I learned that they had not spoken in three weeks.

Ain't that a hoot. They are in another one of their turmoil’s and she's telling me how he can be trusted. Sorry people, I've seen this man at public school functions so intoxicated that he could barely walk. That man WILL NOT be picking my children up under any circumstances.

The subject of being friends was also approached, me of course. Will I ever get out of the habit of calling her Honey?

Honey, for the sake of the children we need to work on being friends. Her reply was that we could "be friendly". *grins* Even the worst of enemies can be friendly under a given set of circumstances but we need to be friends. If you had to pick, where would you classify us today?
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Acquaintance</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Friends</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Close Friends</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Intimate Friends</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I consider you to be my ex-husband and the father of my children. I'll just be honest, until your desires, needs and affection are either directed toward another person or are being met by another person I am very uncomfortable in your presence.

How's that for honesty? OK, so I'm a man. That is what she said but what I heard was "until your lower yourself to my level and become involved with another person I would rather not be around you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> So much for trying to learn to listen. I guess some old habits are hard to kill.

What was good from all of this? When I asked about being friends she replied that there was still a lot of dust that had to be dealt with before that could happen. Dust!

One year ago she said:

</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"We have too much baggage to deal with".</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Several months ago it was "We have to much dirt to deal with".</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Last Friday it was "There is still a lot of dust to deal with".</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
So its gone from baggage to dirt to dust. Who knows, that huge elephant in her living room just may be shot soon. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Other than ALL that things are going pretty good here. Physically, spiritually and emotionally I am doing well. Financially I struggle but I am quite sure we all do that. And even that is beginning to look better now.

Praying that all of you are doing well and I promise that even thought I was absent for quite a while each of your were remembered in my prayers.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/25/04 11:32 AM
Trusting - great to hear from you!

It’s been too quiet on this thread lately. I guess I’ll have to spice it up with the latest on meeting with H.

Me - I met H on Saturday to get his “counter offer” for settlement. It was so far below what I had hoped (both for alimony and asset division) - about half the amount for half the number of years I wanted. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> In addition to that fact, I cried - which I hate but couldn’t help, this is gut-wrenching. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> He’s playing hardball which I’m sure his lawyer is encouraging. He keeps bringing up the fact that I inherited some money from my mother which should offset anything he would give me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

My lawyer told me what she felt was a reasonable amount to settle for (given our circumstances) and I’m inclined to just say “this is my final offer, take it or I’ll be glad to go to court”. I know I can’t go through more than a couple more meetings like that. I’m actually worried about my health now.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I don’t think any of you get (or give) alimony so you may not be able to offer any insight. And I don’t have any friends who’ve gone through divorce to ask. Just wanted to give an update on me. I love and miss y'all!

<small>[ October 25, 2004, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 10/25/04 09:43 PM
AVONDALE,

I'm so sorry you're going through such a difficult time with your husband. It has to be such an emotional drain. Hugs and prayers to you for all you're dealing with.

I know when I had spoken to an attorney years ago, he said allimony various from state to state and even judge to judge. It sounded as if it is very subjective. Thankfully I can't share from personal experience but I can share what I know from a couple of my friends who are divorced.

One lady didn't get any allimony but did get the house. She also will receive child support until her boys are grown. The other received a generous amount of allimony to be able to maintain her very high standard of living. She also got the house, which is a big, beautiful, expensive home. I'll have to ask her how long she expects to receive allimony. She was and is a stay at home mom, if that makes any difference.

Please know that you're in my prayers Avondale. ((((((AVONDALE))))))) Keep trusting God through this. He will see you through.


TRUSTING HIM,

It was wonderful to hear from you!! It sounds as if things are going pretty well for you and your children. Keep looking up and never lose hope. Our God is a God of miracles.

ME

Things have been going better here at home. I'm still in the process of learning much. I always try to maintain a open mind to be able to change those things in me that need "tweaking" It's been good to see some new things. I have also been trying to maintain a positive perspective. God bless each of you.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 10/26/04 03:24 AM
AVONDALE

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He keeps bringing up the fact that I inherited some money from my mother which should offset anything he would give me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It took me a while to find a post that had the state in it but since it is NC, why does the inherited money have anything to do with it?

PROPERTY DISTRIBUTION: NC is an "equitable distribution" state. Separate property, including: (1) any property acquired before the marriage; (2) any gifts and inheritances acquired during the marriage;

I know that lawyers and what not's will try ti include any and everything in the distribution, and since you say he's trying to play hardball it makes it even worse.

Has you lawyer told you that you inherited money should be considered a maritial asset.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My lawyer told me what she felt was a reasonable amount to settle for (given our circumstances) and I’m inclined to just say “this is my final offer, take it or I’ll be glad to go to court”. I know I can’t go through more than a couple more meetings like that. I’m actually worried about my health now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That may be a wise choice! A lady that went through one of our DivorceCare classes almost a year ago has finally reached that point. Her husband, in the midst of being shacked up with his new GF has hidden assets, supposendly stopped working, he is a contractor, reports far less this year in income than he has ever reported in theri 20 years of marriage.

Her being an emotional being, has tried os hard to be fair, do what is right for her and him through all of this and he just keeps playing hardball. In hopes that she finally just caves in to his demands. It has only been in the last 3 weeks that she mad him a FINAL offer, if he refuses that then she lets the courts and lawyers handle it.

Getting or giving alimony? CAn't say tha I had to give but a friend is getting and has been getting for the last 15 years. The difference there is that her former still had a heart. Heart? It's amazing what people with one will do and those that do not have one just continue to hurt others, regardless of the cost.

Leah2be

My heart and prayers continue to go out to you. I know the struggles and feelings you face on a daily basis and I applaude you efforts to amint a steady and positive outlook, even in the midst of turmoil.

Now if any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives to everyone generously without a rebuke, and it will be given to him. But he must ask in faith, without any doubts, for the one who has doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. (James 1:5-6 ISV)

It sound as if you have received that wisdom nad are dillegently persuing a life of learning, "tweaking" ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , I like that choice of words) , keeping an open mind and see and maintain a positive perspective.

Now just share with us how you do it on a daily basis. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Me

*chuckles* Let's not even go there.

In a nutshell, possibly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , Since I last posted I have once again run the emotional roller coaster with my former. Will I ever learn?

I had to call the former last Friday about an insurance change at work. Mine is changing from a HMO to a PPO. In essence from a copay to an 80/20 with deductiables. It may make sense for us to use her insurance for the children if she has an HMO. I was shocked when she answered the phone because she sounded so chipper. Chipper enought that after the called I did offer up a prayer of thanks to God for a pleasent conversation and tone of voice.

I picker up the children tht afternoon from her hosue and there was a HUGE difference in her home. Now if she would bring the children to me, have their clothes ready when I arrived I may not notice as much. but being that I usually have to gather all their stuff up it means I have to enter the house. Pictures of her boyfriend have been removed from the kitchen. Pictires of her boyfriend on the nightstands are also removed and replaced with pictures of our children. Pictures of boyfriend from dresser and all the cards she had been stacking there for the last year are gone. Cards I have no idea what she did with, all the pictures were put into a bookshelf in the bedroom.

OK, I am sorry, but it did bring a sense of 'something', a hope that just maybe she was beginning to see a little light and it did effect my emotions and hopes.

Later that evening our duaghter informed me that she had left her contact solution at Mom;s house. I told her to call and if it was OK with Mom we could drive back over and get that and our son;s glasses. She talked to Mom and shed offered to bring it to my house. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> This was new one as she usually refuses to make any extra trips. But. . .after she arrived and left me and the children were watching TV and our OD chimed in with a "Mommy's not seeing BF anymore but she has a new sort-of BF". *chuckles*

What's a sort-of boyfriend? She went on to explain that Mommy has been talking a lot to some guy she went to high school with. He's in the Army and currently stationed close to here but had gone to NY to visit family. But he's called every night this week.

I know I told her that she could talk about anything she wanted, I just never knew how much it would hurt. I did ask them how they felt about the new friend.

OD - She can do whatever she wants as long as she does not marry him.

DS - I did not like her first one and I do not like this one. It is not right.

YD - I love you Daddy cause you'e the bestest Daddy in the whole wide world.


ACK! I developed a sudden loss of vision or blurry vision today. Can you say cataracts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I'm to young to have cataracts and the Doctor I saw today agreed, but said there was nothing I could do but to either have the sugery or keep blurred vision. So unless something drastic changes in the nest week they will be taking care of that the 4th of November. I sure hope it's not to bad. I hate sugery. )not to mention that it makes reading this screen and typing a genuine PAIN!


WALLACE, PETVET, VOLKWES, RELADY, WILLGETTHRUTHIS, praying that each of you are doing well in you personal journey's.

God Bless Ya All

<small>[ October 25, 2004, 10:25 PM: Message edited by: Trusting Him ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 10/26/04 05:39 AM
Hey All,

Just thought I would pop in since I have a free minute.

(((((Avondale)))))

I can just imagine how difficult this must be. IMHO, maybe you should just seize all meetings and let the attorney handle it. People have a tendency to get very ugly when money is involved. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Nevermind the fact that you spent half your life with him!!

Wallace

Yes, my timeshare as far as the Bahamas won't be available until late next year. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I plan to exchange it for Hawaii next year. I tried to get something for Thanksgiving and couldn't, so I'm heading back East for the holiday.

The maintenance fees went up $100 and they claim it's just for next year!! Right!!

Hope all is well with you.

Leah2Be

Where you are is not an easy place to be and I'll be glad to share my experience. I have always said it's more difficult when there is still communication. Being lonely with someone is much worst than being by yourself. I didn't talk to my X for 2 years and still haven't.

God allows us to go through things to become the person he has called us to be. We all have different experiences. My pain has truly become my ministry. Had this not happened I would not be the person I am today. I had to truly believe that, "all things work together for the good of those who love the Lord and are called according to His Purpose. 'His' being the operative word.

When you have that deep down on the inside, you just trust God.

Me

I'm finally working on my list of things to do after the divorce that I couldn't do because CA is a community property state. So, I'm rolling right along.

Petvet, Trusting Hime, WGTT and everyone.

Hope all is well.

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/26/04 11:27 AM
Hi all! This board has been kinda quiet lately.

Trusting: It's is going to be hard have joint custody with someone like your wife. I think that's what my ex wants, and I am going to fight it tooth and nails.

Avondale: I'm sorry for your pain. As I told you earlier, you will end up in court. As you can tell, the drama played out in these meetings were for his benefit not yours. You have tried to work with him, and now, he plans on palying hardball. What does your inheritance have to do with anything? Please talk to your attorney, but Sweetheart, I am afraid that you are headed for court. You may have to face that reality. Don't put yourself through anymore pain with these meetings unless you feel that will be fruitful. At this point, it's all about the money. You must suck it up and keep your head high, Avondale. The pain is unbearable but I can assure you that you have gone through the worst already. Unless something happens out of Jupiter, the pain will be eased once you realize he is not coming back. Don't allow your health to worsen over this stuff. He is not the same man you married. Please pray for strength.

Relady: Hawaii instead of the Bahamas. I'll take it. I'm planning on going to Hawaii next summer.

Wallace: Where are you?

Me: Living life. Going better than I realize.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 10/26/04 04:56 PM
Hey All,

Sorry I have not been able to post. My computer at home is toast... I need a new motherboard and power supply from the storm we got hit with.

Work has been very busy... so I haven't had much time to even look at any posts here lately.

Hope all is well with everyone... gotta run... I'm at work and we are real busy.

I'll be in touch.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 10/27/04 01:02 PM
Wallace

Sorry to hear about the computer. *chuckles* I just got my old one back tht I put in the shop back in March. Yes...it was tht hard to scrap up an extra 150.00 for the repairs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Praying that yours is back soon.

Petvet

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's is going to be hard have joint custody with someone like your wife. I think that's what my ex wants, and I am going to fight it tooth and nails.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's not even go there. With each passing day I see more evidence of this and for the life of me cannot understand why?

Just yesterday her and I had a talk with our YD. Here we are, sitting in her living room explaining to our daughter that we each want what's best for her. My mind had a hard time saying I want whats best but yet we are divorced and from all appearences so far cannot even be friends but in the words of my former "we can be friendly." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Me

Now I now how sin and deception can be so hard to overcome and even see. I developed a cataract in my right eye Moday morning. The Doctor tells me it's been coming on for a while but for the life of me I never notived it. Sunday night I could see out of both eyes and Monday morning the vision in my right eye is all but gone. I can see, it's just all blurry.

Anyway, as I was driving to Bible Study this morning the thought occured as I attempted to see roads and road signs that sin and deception must be like this. I know where I am going for I've been there many times before but I had to make a concentrated effort to watch otherwise I would miss my turn. Things that were once taken for granted I now have to focus really hard to see things.

And without that concentrated effort I would be off the road, in a ditch or staring blindly around looking for something familiar when there it is, just like it's always been. I just can't see it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

So, surgery next week to fix the vision thing I hope. Be ot of comission for a couple of days but the Doc assures me I can be back the following Monday. Being without clear vision in only eye is a killer. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

To everyone else, God Bless Ya in all that you do. Each new day is a gift and we ned to cherish it as much as possible.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 10/27/04 03:20 PM
TRUSTING HIM,

I'm so sorry for the difficulties you are currently facing. I hope you have some supportive friends near in the upcoming weeks. I wish we could physically be there to help you with things as you face your upcoming surgery. I've just made a big pot of soup that I would love to take to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Please know we are all here for you out in great cyber-land. I have and will continue to keep you much in prayer. Please let us know as soon as you can how you're doing.

About the emotional roller-coaster... How well I can relate. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> You can't imagine how many times I ask myself the same questions you ask. Why do I keep letting myself go there? Just when I'm encouraged by some small incident or piece of conversation, another curve ball comes dashing my way.

Over and over again, I learn...GOD MUST BE MY SOURCE OF HOPE. I can not look to my H to meet those deep heart cries and needs. He might be here physically, but he just doesn't seem to really care. It is such a painful realization. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

You ask how do I do it on a daily basis. Only with a lot of help from the Lord. That wisdom in James, I ask for it daily. Somedays, I rebel and just want to do what comes naturally. That's when I fall quickly in trouble. Because what comes naturally is to look out for #1 and to feel angry that my hopes and desires are not being met in this M. So it is a continual process of giving it all over to the Only One who truly knows and understands all. It's trusting Him to do what only He can do.

I know you understand that process from first hand experience. Please keep looking up and let us know how you're doing. ((((TRUSTING HIM))))


RELADY,

You are right about it being harder to be lonely with someone that to be lonely by yourself. I find this is very true here because my H travels a great deal. It is always easier emotionally when he is gone, because then there is no expectation. It is much harder to accept nothing when it is staring you in the face.

I totally agree about God using the different circumstances in our life to mold us into the person we need to be. Certainly the trials we've experienced have taught us all much. God bless you!

WALLACE,

Sorry for your computer difficulties. I've been through that and know how frustrating that can be. Hope things are going well for you and your family.

AVONDALE,

Hi, hope you are doing okay. I've been thinking of you much since reading your last posting on the other page. I hope things are going better for you. I've been concerned for you. Keep us posted.

HI TO ALL OTHERS. HOPE YOU ARE EACH DOING WELL. HAVE A GOOD REST OF THE WEEK. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/28/04 08:54 PM
Well here’s my update:
Met with H, told him I couldn’t go through repeated meetings while we “negotiate” a settlement. So I told him my bottom line (in a range of $$ and length of years) and let him choose. It was much lower in money and time than my lawyer had suggested but to me, it was worth it to get him to agree without it taking a toll on me. This way, we were able to come to a conclusion much quicker and actually verbally agreed on something within a couple of hours. I presented to my attorney the next day, she agreed I was being generous but understood how I wasn’t up for more emotionally or physically, and we will await H’s attorney to draw up everything next week. I will get him to sign a quit claim for the house and refi the remaining balance of mortgage and home equity loan. The divorce will be final before Thanksgiving.

This last part of the end has been MUCH more difficult than finding out about the affair or him leaving. I now understand how easy it is for bitterness to creep in - no wonder there are so many bitter women (and men) walking around. I have peace about what I settled for; although it isn’t extravagant, I am OK with it.
Thanks for your prayers, everyone! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 10/29/04 07:05 PM
Leah2b

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Thanks, that pot of soup sounds wonderful.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Over and over again, I learn...GOD MUST BE MY SOURCE OF HOPE. I can not look to my H to meet those deep heart cries and needs. He might be here physically, but he just doesn't seem to really care. It is such a painful realization. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It is such a painful realization. And one that hits home with me more and more each day. You are right, God MUST be the source of our hope and strenght. I remember reading in "The Power of a Praying Husband" "Although I'm aware that I cannot meet my wife's every emotinal need, I know that you can. I am not trying to absolve myself from meeting any of her needs, but I know that some of them are intended to be met only by You."

Let God meet those needs, he does tell us; Ask and it shall be given to you; seek and you shall find; knock and it shall be opened to you. For each one who asks receives; and he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, it shall be opened.
(Matthew 7:7-8 MKJV)


My prayer is that God will meet your every need ans you seek Him.

Avondale

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I now understand how easy it is for bitterness to creep in - no wonder there are so many bitter women (and men) walking around. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you battle the same thoughts. My prayers are with you as you go through this. As long as you know that what you have settled for is sufficient for you then that is all that matters. Our emotional health is far more importnat than trying to deal with people who just want to make things hard.

If you are comfortable then I hope and pray that your husband will simply agree and put an end to all of this.

Me

Back to Leah2b's statement.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is such a painful realization. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That it is. I was back at the Doctor's office today fro a pleminary meeting and discussion for the eye sugerey next week. As he went into the discussion of being put to sleep he said that afterward's he would come out and talk to me and the family. Family?

That brought tears <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> to my eyes sitting there in his office. I think he thought I was upset about the operation but he did go on to say that as long as I approved he would like to pray then and again before the surgery. I told him that was fine and while he was at it to add one for my former wife. I think then, he realized where the tears came from.

But the thoughts were of each of our children being born and me sitting there beside her holding her hand and I realized that there would be no one there for me. (Not in a negative sense, just the realization that one of those things we always thought would be, is no longer) Dreams, hopes and future all wrapped up in one have been crushed.

Relady, Wallace, PetVet, Volkwes and WillGet ThruThis...let us know how things are going.

God Bless Ya All
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 10/29/04 09:45 PM
Trusting - I’ve been so absorbed in my own problems I didn’t acknowledge yours. Thank you for your kind thoughts. Good thing God is in control and I’m not the only person on this thread!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Trusting said: I was back at the Doctor's office today fro a pleminary meeting and discussion for the eye sugerey next week. As he went into the discussion of being put to sleep he said that afterward's he would come out and talk to me and the family. Family? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you have a support system there for you? I know in the past you had mentioned some of the people from your divorce care group (I think). Do you need us to visit you in the hospital?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Trusting said: But the thoughts were of each of our children being born and me sitting there beside her holding her hand and I realized that there would be no one there for me. (Not in a negative sense, just the realization that one of those things we always thought would be, is no longer) Dreams, hopes and future all wrapped up in one have been crushed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you realize this, and I know it’s trite, but God does have a plan for you and each one of us. I pray the surgery is successful and that He will give you peace while you are recuperating. When I had my surgery, it really gave me a reason to do some interactions with Him that I previously had let lapse on a daily basis. Nothing like being unable to do your favorite things while you recover from surgery. Since I don't really know how to send you a card, consider this your "get well wish for a speedy recovery".

Leah - Thanks for thinking of me. I feel I am handling this well with God's grace. I'm learning all about mortgages and will refine my budget this weekend. Sounds exciting, huh?

Hope everyone has a great weekend!

<small>[ October 29, 2004, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 10/29/04 10:50 PM
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Yes, I have a support group and family here. It was just the sudden thought that in the past we had always been together. That thought combined with the idea of being put to sleep. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Well, you can sort of get the idea. Just a sudden lapse of thoughts and focus. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 10/30/04 10:53 AM
Hi all!

Avondale: What you have gone though mentally and physically is not unusual. I hope you are at peace with the agreement. In my last post, I was not trying to be negative or hurtful, but I could tell this was wearing on you. One piece of advice I can give you is to not get bitter, but treat this as a new beginning. If you maintain bitterness, your H still has power over you. At least you will not have the stress of this ordeal to worry about anymore. Stay strong, and keep your head high. Be empowered.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/01/04 10:02 PM
Hi All,

My computer at home is still down ... but I should have the parts in sometime this week to fix it. Work is still real busy, so I will be brief.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/01/04 10:07 PM
Trusting Him,

I've been thinking and praying for you a lot. I hope your surgery goes well and that you have a speedy recovery.

Keep reaching out to the Lord in those dark and lonely times. He is there for you. Even though our dreams are not being realized at the time, we have to hang on to the promises of God. He does have a plan for our lives, plans to give us a hope and a future.

This weekend was one of those times when I had to keep trying to remember that. My H was very angry and difficult all weekend. I try to respond the right way but it seems no matter what I do at this point it isn't the right response. This can be so very discouraging. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So today, I'm trying to regroup and move forward. I guess I'm just battle weary. I'm so ready for things to improve and change. But no matter the prayers and effort here, things don't ever really come together. All in God's time, right? I need to be more patient. It's just tough right now.

Sorry to be whining... I do send you lots of good wishes as you go to surgery. We'll be anxious to hear that everything went well. Take care and God bless you, Trusting Him.


Avondale

You too are very much in my thoughts and prayers. It sounds as if you made a wise decision. I don't blame you at all for going for less money to gain more peace. The money just isn't worth the pain and aggravation, as long as you know your needs will all be met.

That was and is the route I'm prepared to take with my H if D becomes a reality. As long as I have enough for the girls and I to comfortably live, he can have all the rest. I know I could suppeena(sp?) stuff and all that, but to me it just wouldn't be worth the turmoil it would create. I much rather live with a little less, and have some peace in my life.

That is something I long for right now... some peace. It was a bad weekend as I wrote TRUSTING HIM. These are the times I question why I've worked so hard to hold this marriage together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> His body might have come home, but his heart never did. It is extremely difficult to live with someone who acts so disrespectful and unkind.

It is good to know God knows and understands and holds all the answers. Keep looking to him to keep you free from the clutches of bitterness. Not always an easy thing to avoid. I have fought those feelings from time to time also. Those are the times, I have to pray extra hard to have the right attitude. When I sincerely seek His help, God always gives the needed grace. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But I think there is a difference between forgiveness and allowing boundaries to be continually trampled. I'm just trying to determine where and how one draws the line. Thats an area where I still have much to learn. IS IT POSSIBLE TO BE TOO FORGIVING? A QUESTION FOR ANYONE WHO CARES TO SHARE THEIR PERSPECTIVE..

I hope these final few weeks go well for you, Avondale. I hope this won't be an entirely sad time for you. Perhaps with the closure of this difficult process, you will be able to more easily move forward with God at your side. Hugs to you.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/01/04 10:28 PM
Hi All,

My computer at home is still down ... but I should have the parts in sometime this week to fix it. Work is still real busy, so I will be brief.

avondale...

Your at a point where everything at this stage can just wear you down. Make sure that whatever you agree to is going to be satisfactory for you down the road. I know how tiring an affect it can have on you... I'm over 2-1/2 years "D", and I'm battling with the IRS due to my exwife's mistakes that I just didn't catch at the time we "D".

Make sure you cross every "T", and dot every "I", because it's real hard to make changes down the road.

Prayers, and hugs to you avondale, keep the faith, and don't let it work you. Take it a little at a time if you have to.

Oh! You can become bitter... very bitter as all this drags out. That's where the Lord in your life is most important. Without him in my life... I wouldn't have gotten this far.

Trusting Him,

You touched a nerve with me... in fact my eyes almost started to water up after reading

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Trusting said: But the thoughts were of each of our children being born and me sitting there beside her holding her hand and I realized that there would be no one there for me. (Not in a negative sense, just the realization that one of those things we always thought would be, is no longer) Dreams, hopes and future all wrapped up in one have been crushed.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The sad part of it all is what you stated IMHO, is true, at least with your former. It doesn't mean however that in fact you cannot have hopes and dreams again... you can, and I'm sure you will.

Your putting God first in your life will most definitely make your hopes and dreams come to fruition.

Prayers for you as well Trusting Him, I'm sure this is a very trying time in your life... just what you probably don't need.

We are with you, and we will be here for you when you need us.

Petvet...

Things going well for you I hope?

keep up the good work, and let us know how the child custody issue is going when you get time.

Leah...

I know what your going through... and it is a very difficult scenario to be in.

There were many times, that I just wanted to crawl under a rock, and close my eyes, and hope everything would straighten itself out.

I wasn't able to do that, and my whole world came crashing in on me and my children.

We are better now, and getting better as each day passes. With much determination, and the Lord at your side... you will eventually reach the answer you desire. Pray, and keep searching through God's word, and try to get your "H" to at least look at the word of the Lord.

When my world came crashing in... I thought I could handle it myself. I didn't let the Lord in at that point... I was to busy trying to fix everything myself. Well you know the outcome... and it wasn't until after it was to late in my "M", did I ask for God's help. Don't let that happen to you... put God first, and he will lead the way.

realdy, WGTT, and anyone else I missed...

Hope you are all doing well.

Well back to work... hopefully I'll have my computer up and running by the end of the week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ November 01, 2004, 04:29 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 11/02/04 06:02 AM
Leah2b

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I think there is a difference between forgiveness and allowing boundaries to be continually trampled. I'm just trying to determine where and how one draws the line. Thats an area where I still have much to learn. IS IT POSSIBLE TO BE TOO FORGIVING? A QUESTION FOR ANYONE WHO CARES TO SHARE THEIR PERSPECTIVE.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As much as I would love to go into the reasons that boundaries are good and we can be to forgiving, there is not enough time nor space here for me to write them.

Simply put boundaries are great! I have boundaries and consequences for our children, most of the time they respect them because they respect and love me. Alas, that is missing in my former and is probably true for you as well. And if that partner has no love or respect they get out the John Deer and bulldoze every boundary you try to erect. And in this fast paced and throw away world we live in today there are way to many lawyers and Churches who would rather have it over and done with than have to really involve themsleves in our lives and problems.

Trying to respond the right way? Oh did that comment bring back memories as I struggled with the right response, the loving response and the anger and bitterness that was given back to me was almost unbearable. So what can I offer as encouragement? Prayers and then some more prayers.

No, in all these things Leah is more than a conqueror through him who loved her. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate Leah from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - Romans 8:37-39

It's rather ironic, well not really, but Sunday as I was listening to the Pastor preach he made a comment to the extent "Nothing can happen to a believer within the framework of God's love that is not designed to bring about change in that's persons life or to bring Glory to God." Or something to that extent, I tried to write down each word cause he said it a lot better than I wrote it but I guess the jest was that God has a purpose, a plan, a hope and a future for us. Same thing Wallace told me.

Know that I will make sure you, the girls and your husband will be in my prayers daily.

Avondale

Leah2be has it right, the money is NOT worth the pain. Much like Wallace and she stated just make sure that you take care of everything up front. Because of my foolish emotions and that desire for a bit of peace in my life I made some huge mistakes. I do not wish that upon anyone.

Bitter! Ouch, I pray that you can find the strenght to not go there. The only person it will end up hurting is you. God's grace and strenght is more than enough to overcome the anger and bitterness but it sure can be a painful process as we begin to forgive, make a decision to forgive, choose to forgive and every fiber of our being is wanting to lash out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Not us! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But as you allow God to renew your mind those feelings and emotions do dwindle down to a managable level.

Keep the faith...there is light at the end of the tunnel. As Elizabeth Elliot told my former in a letter to her "things are always darkest just before the dawn but since you know Christ He does have a plan and a future for you. Look to Him and He will guide you to the man He has made for you." Duh! I wonder if she's read that letter lately. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wallace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The sad part of it all is what you stated IMHO, is true, at least with your former. It doesn't mean however that in fact you cannot have hopes and dreams again... you can, and I'm sure you will. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> You said it better than I did. I do have hopes and dreams and that is the direction that God has taken me. And they are quite often better than I anticipated.

Me

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> as usual. Not really, I just love that *confused* smiley!

First BF is rapidly dropping from the picture, so rapid in fact that I think it scares my former.

Her words...

Opps! I probably better not say them here so lets just say that they were the words of a desperate woman trying really hard to salvage a relationship that she has already sabatoged (sp). He is tired of her constance annoyance, nagging and bugging and failing to accept responsibility and enstill discipline for and in the children. See, God does answer prayers for the specific prayer was to use him or lose him.

Does that mean anything for me? Nah, probably not. Reading in Dobson's book last night I found thia and grasped it's concept rather quickly.

</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I may ask with every confidence that God will open the eyes of the morally and spiritually blind.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I may ask that the self-deception which sinners hide behind may be burned away in the fierce light of tuth, that dark caverns may be rent assunder to let the sunlight pour in, that self-disguises may be stripped from a man or woman to reveal the horror of their nakedness in the Holy Light of God.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I may ask above all that the glory of the face of Christ will shine through the spritual blindness caused by the god of this world.</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
All of this we can ask with every assurance that God will not only hear but will delight to answer.

But we may not ask Him to force a man, woman or child to love and trust Him.

</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To deliver them from temptation: Yes.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To give them every opportunity: Yes.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To reveal His beauty, His tenderness, His forgiveness: Yes.</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
But to force a man against his will to bow the knee: not in this life. And to force a man to trust him: Never.

So I mosey along this path that God has laid out for me asking daily for guideance and strenght that I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me–the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace.

To the rest of the "Tough Love" crowd, Hope you are all doing well.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/02/04 11:15 AM
Hi all!

Wallace: I hope you get your computer issues resolve soon.

Avondale: I want to chime in with the others that you need to make sure that all i's are dotted and t's crossed because it is hard to change once it is put in place. Once again, I pray that you have strength.

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/04/04 06:03 AM
HI EVERYONE, HOPE ALL OF YOU ARE DOING WELL AND HAVING A GOOD WEEK. WE LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING FROM SOME OF YOU THAT HAVEN'T POSTED IN AWHILE.

WALLACE,

Thanks for writing and for your prayers. You are absolutely right about continuing to look to the Lord in all things. I know I can not go this road alone. I so need Him.

I'm sorry your computer is still down. I hope you can get it going soon. Hope other things and people,(GF) in your life are going well. Thanks for being a steady contributor here, even when it's not convenient. Take care.

TRUSTING HIM,

If I remember right, tomorrow is the big day. I'll be thinking of you and praying for you.

Thank you so much for the verses from Romans. They brought tears to my eyes - I love that passage! I have to remember that God's love and acceptance is always there, even though H's is not.

Boundary busting... H has a super John Deere model! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I keep praying and asking for wisdom in my responses. At this point, I will try to limit and screen every word. I so want to live at peace - I have no desire to be contentious. I also want to be a Godly role model to my daughters. I'm very concerned for them to see and hear the blatant disregard and disrespect that is shown to me from H. I'm afraid they've started to pick up on some of the same negative phrases that they hear from him.

Thank you so very much for praying for me and my family. That means so much! I want to continue to be strong in my faith. That means holding on really tight in the midst of a lot of questions. God will see us all through.

Will your surgery be immediately corrective or will it take some time for the results to be known? I hope your seeing 20/20 soon. Please get the rest you need after surgery - Hope there is someone there to help you. We'll be anxious to hear a good report. God bless!

AVONDALE,

I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. I hope you are doing well. Please let us know how things are going when you can. Take care.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/04/04 11:28 PM
Hi All!!!

Computer is still down at home. I've got all the parts except the power supply for it. So as soon as that gets in, I will probably start fixing my computer and reloading all the programs. Loading the programs back in is going to take the most time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />


Well I'm getting hammered by the IRS!

The IRS is bringing in my ex-wife to challenge the Injured Spousal Relief. They are doing this so they can have my Injured Spousal Relief taken away. She had 60 days to appeal this when I received it almost a year ago, and now that it's almost one year away... she wants to contest it, because they started hammering on her for the money that she under reported on with her 18 plus jobs in less than two years... and they are going to let her.

To say that I'm really depressed over all of this, is an understament. It just never ends!

Trusting Him...

Hope your eye surgery goes well. Hopefully you won't be out of commision for to long.

Have someone there for you as well... it will help your recovery move along much faster IMO.

Leah...

What you need to do, if you can... is set up a family meeting to express your concerns, if you haven't already.

IMO, this is the initial stages of the family structure being broken down, and if left unchecked... it will eventually completely break down, and the family as you know it, will no longer exist.

With the Lord's help... do everything in your power to not let this happen... because once it starts snowballing... it is very difficult to stop, if not near impossible.

avondale, Petvet, relady, WGTT, and everyone else...

Hope your day and week are going well for all of you.

Well... it's back to work now.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 11/05/04 04:02 AM
No surgery today. I arrived there only to discover tht there had been a problem with the insurance and the Doctor had scheduled me at an out-patient facility that is out-of-network. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Needless to say we spent half of the day trying to resolve that and get me rescheuled at another Hospital. So now I get to wait until November 19th to have it done.

Question for those who have young children?

Real or preceived? Conversations on the phone with my youngest daughter. Over the last year I have always let them know and encouraged them to maintain contact with their Mom when I have them. One night out of the week, Spring or Fall break, alternate weekends the idea here is that they are free to talk about any issue or talk about or to their Mom.

It has happened several times and I've never really given it much thought until this week. Monday evening YD called and spoke with Mom for 20 or so minutes, telling her all about her day, school work, home work and what we had done that evening. For the first six months or so YD was prompt in her calls to me every night, now they have dwindled down to nothing. And the few times tht she does call it short or either because Mom said t ask Daddy something.

Long stroy short...(where have you heard that before <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) When I call her now its short and sweet, "Let's say prayers Daddy, I love you, Good night." So yes...I have a slight feeling of being glited (sp) here. But's it almsot as if she is uncomfortable talking to me when she is at the former's house where as at my house she feels quite comfortable talking to Mom.

Questions...

Does the atmosphere provided by either parent have an affect on how the children will enteract with the other parent?

Is it normal for YD to stop her calls to me or is this something that happens normaly as they become accustomed to the parents being apart?

Does YD miss Mom so much on those one nighters that she feels it is necessary to fill her in on all that happened that day?

And the opposite of the previous, (pity party <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) Is it normal to NOT miss the absent parent as time goes along and I become just a place to go on those other days?
Posted By: VolkWes Re: Tough Love - 11/05/04 08:14 PM
Hello everybody!!!

I know it has been a long time since I've posted, but I have been really covered up with work, and school has been keeping me stressed and busy.

I just wanted to drop in and give an update...

My attorney's office called me today, and my W was served at work yesterday. They said that they had already recieved a call from a lawyer too. My lawyer was out today, but his secretary said he would be in contact with hers next week, and try to get everything settled, and that it probably shouldn't take long.

I was surprised to feel really relieved to hear all this. I feel like a heavy load is being lifted off of me. It may get ugly before it is over with, but I feel really good right now.

::Smiling::

Hope everyone is doing well!!

I'll be back to check in later

Wesley
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/06/04 12:34 PM
Hi all!

Trusting Him: I think environment as a lot to do with the phone calls from kids to the other parent. My kid never calls me from his mom even after I ask him to; however, he ask me from time to time whether he can call his mom and I let him. Of course, his mom calls as well.

Volkwas: I wish you well during this difficult time. Things seem to be going really quick. Hmmmm!

Take Care!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/06/04 01:42 PM
Hi All!
Trusting - you asked some really good questions. My children aren’t young, so my impending divorce is affecting them differently. But of course, having raised two kids to be somewhat responsible adults, I DO have an opinion!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Trusting said: Does the atmosphere provided by either parent have an affect on how the children will enteract with the other parent? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course it does! If one parent is antagonistic (either through what they say- “Dad is a jerk” or what they imply “Dad can’t pick you up because he’s always working”) then it instills in the children that Dad doesn’t care (at the least). We all hope your xw isn't doing this, though!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Trusting said: Is it normal for YD to stop her calls to me or is this something that happens normaly as they become accustomed to the parents being apart? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would say this can be either scenario. It could also be YD is getting older and as that happens, they easily become self-conscious about things like that. Or perhaps OD teased her? Or perhaps Mom doesn’t do anything to encourage her to call? Does she remind the kids to call? Does she make time for them to call? Does she see it as a priority?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Trusting said: Does YD miss Mom so much on those one nighters that she feels it is necessary to fill her in on all that happened that day? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I’m thinking several things... </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1) I am not so sure it’s her mom that she misses as much as the “security” of the familiar home, with all HER (YD) things in it. I know you probably have “stuff” that belongs to each child at your house, and they bring things when they stay with you. But put yourself in their shoes - their friends, beds, drawers with clothes, etc.. Just one of the hazards of joint custody.

    2) She still wishes you could all do things together (mom, dad and kids) so she wants mom to be part of things.

    3) Could mom have specifically asked her to call and report? Perhaps Mom has an insecurity complex!</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Trusting said: And the opposite of the previous, (pity party ) Is it normal to NOT miss the absent parent as time goes along and I become just a place to go on those other days?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think there are ways you can make it better than “a place to go”. And I’m sure that’s what is in your heart. Pray for God to give you creative ideas to make memories with them. Especially with your son (IMHO)- he’s the middle child and the one in the most need of a Godly example of a father & man. Have you read the latest Dobson book, “Bringing up Boys” ??

Also, keep us posted on your surgery.


Leah - It is always so good to read your posts. You are an encouragement even when you yourself are troubled. Did you know that?


VolksWes - Good to hear from you. I agree with Petvet, things seem to be moving pretty fast. Hope that is something you don’t regret when looking back on it a few years from now.

Wallace - I'm glad you're still posting even though you're having computer issues. How is the g/f thing going these days??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Me - Hubby's lawyer told him the terms we agreed on were "fair to both of us" which of course it isn't (don't we ALL say that??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )but it definitely is what I can live with emotionally. I have obtained a mortgage all by myself today, too, for the house I'm in. Woo hoo! So now I'm in the ranks of the under-paid working to pay off a house all on my own.
Side note: PTL, I am now one-year cancer-free <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet - Is there an update about your custody situation?

WGTT, Relady - hope you're doing well! You are missed!
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 11/07/04 11:04 PM
I'm trying really hard to keep finding the good in all of this but it sure is hard at times.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course it does! If one parent is antagonistic (either through what they say- “Dad is a jerk” or what they imply “Dad can’t pick you up because he’s always working”) then it instills in the children that Dad doesn’t care (at the least). We all hope your xw isn't doing this, though! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't say that she does those things. What I can say is her response to me.

When I have the children we do not talk about you, we do not discuss you, your name does not come up unless they are telling me what they did with you.

Whereas with me the children know that they have the freedom to speak their mind in a polite way about any subject, even if they are angry. And trust me, while I enjoy the intimacy of the relationships I have with all three of our children, it appears I get the brunt of their anger and disappointment. I feel that they have learned with Mom that Dad is an "off limits" item as is the BF's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Or perhaps Mom doesn’t do anything to encourage her to call? Does she remind the kids to call? Does she make time for them to call? Does she see it as a priority? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Encourage? I think not.
Remind the kids to call? Not unless she needs or want something.
A priority? I feel that it is not with her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I’m thinking several things...

* 1) I am not so sure it’s her mom that she misses as much as the “security” of the familiar home, with all HER (YD) things in it. I know you probably have “stuff” that belongs to each child at your house, and they bring things when they stay with you. But put yourself in their shoes - their friends, beds, drawers with clothes, etc.. Just one of the hazards of joint custody.

2) She still wishes you could all do things together (mom, dad and kids) so she wants mom to be part of things.

3) Could mom have specifically asked her to call and report? Perhaps Mom has an insecurity complex!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">1. Quite possible on all counts.
2. True, as she still cries at times about us being apart.
3. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I doubt it seriously, but with her you never know. Insecurity Complex? I would have to say very true. For years I always thought that the people my former got involved with were co-dependent, now I see it as her being co-dependent. Her feelings of self-worth and confindnce definately stem from what others preceive her as.

AS for the last. I know that my home is much more than just "a place to go." It's just a mindset I get sometimes if I allow my mind to wander to far or dwell on the "what if's" for an extended period of time. Those bouts are fewer and fewer between now.

The children make numerous comments about staying with me, usually enjoy it even knowing that I am the strict one, the displine person. And they all enjoy those special moments and times where I try to single out just one of them for their special time. Reading a book with the YD, who by the way turned 8 today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> DS and the middle child. He enjoys snuggling up on the couch or bed and watching an entire movie after YD has gone to sleep. OD? Well, let's just say that ALL those conversations that SHOULD be taking place between a mother and daughter anr typically handeled by me. Yeppers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> all that female stuff, puberity, BF's, emotions and feelings are all asked of me.

DD, do you and your mother discuss these things. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> is what she does. Daddy, you know I can't ask Mommy those kind of things, she would FREAK!!

Avondale Congratulations on the "fair to both of us" which of course it isn't" cause we all know the truth. And the mortgage too. Welcome to the world. And we'll continue to pray that you stay cancer-free.

Leah, VolksWes, Wallace, Petvet, Rellady and all you others. I hope you all had a WONDERFUL weekend. Stay in touch.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/08/04 03:58 AM


<small>[ November 08, 2004, 08:37 AM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/08/04 02:31 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Leah2be:
<strong> Avondale,

I must have started writing sometime after you were dealing with cancer. I'm so glad to hear the good report of cancer free for a year.

You certainly have had to deal with a lot of issues these past few years. You must be a very strong lady to hold together so well through it all. Keep moving forward as you are. You're doing a fine job in the midst of a dificult situation. God bless you!

Trusting Him,

I'm so sorry for the pain you've had to endure through the divorce. I'm sure the separation from your children has to be one of the most difficult challenges you face. That has been one of the biggest motivators for me in trying to work things out with my H. I just hate the idea of the kids not being able to be with us both. It must be so hard.

You sound like an incredibly patient man and father. You are so very much there for your children and it shows in the way they are around you and how they communicate with you. From everything you are sharing, you are the parent that they are most secure with. They are able to talk with you about anything, something they can't do with their mother. That is a very special gift you have given them.

I'm sure most of the factors that AVONDALE listed are at play to some degree as far as your younger daughters lack of conversation with you. When my H and I were separated before, the girls were mostly always with me, with very few exceptions. So I don't have a lot of experience with them calling me. I do know when either of us are away from home, the girls don't seem to talk that much to us on the phone. I'm not sure if that's because of their quieter personalities or their ages or what.

When their Dad is travelling, he usually is the one who initiates conversations with them. He will call them and they have a few minutes of small talk. Unless they have a specific need or question, they don't usually call. I wish I could be more helpful but I just wanted to share with you what typically takes place here. Also, I'd just encourage you to keep calling her and letting her know just how much you look forward to talking with her everynight. That might motivate her to keep staying in touch. Maybe she doesn't realize how much her telephone conversations mean to you. I'll pray that situation gets better.



Sorry your surgery was postponed. I'm sure that was discouraging. You were probably anxious to get that done and over with. I hope it goes well when you do have it. Please keep us posted.

Petvet,

Hope your custody situation with your ex-wife gets worked out soon. Take care.

Wallace, Relady, WGTT, Volkswes, and All Others,

Hope each of you are doing well. Write when you can and let us know what is happening. Have a good week!

Me

I'm hanging in there.
Still feeling very disconected with my H. He's very preoccupied and gone most of the time. When he's here, it's like he's never really quite with me. He seems to work hard to keep his distance. It's a sad marriage.

But, the girls are doing well. YD had a birthday party this weekend. Thirteen little girls, games, pizza, cake and fun. I have to hold on to all those happy moments.

I only hope I'm truly giving these girls the best possible situation as far as staying here with their Dad. I hope I can always try to find joy in the midst of it all. That is my hope for all of us here on the Tough Love thread. Wishing you all love, hope and joy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ November 08, 2004, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/08/04 07:51 PM
Sorry for the last post. I attempted to edit it and apparently hit the quote button. I'll get it yet... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/09/04 12:23 PM
Hi all!

Trusting: Avondale had some very comments about your children going from one place to the other. My kid is going through the same thing.

Avondale: His attorney says fair deal(That's a big laugh!) As long as you can live with the agreement, I support you. Getting that mortgage was a real confidence booster. When I refinanced my house on my own several months ago to settled the D stuff, I felt real good. You will be OK, but it will take time. You are headed in the right direction. Take ownership of yourself again. You can do it!

Wallace: What's up?

Me: There is no custody situation yet, but I know it is coming. I am putting my ducks in a row.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/11/04 11:04 PM
Hi All,

Just thought I would drop in for a moment.

I finally got all my parts for my computer at home, and I plan on putting them in this weekend and reinstalling all my software. Computers here at woork have been down due to the ISP provider, in fact they just went back up a few moments ago.

Haven't had a chance to really read all the posts... but I will here in a few days.

G/F and I are doing well... wish I could say the same thing about my IRS headache.

I'll be in touch.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/13/04 07:56 PM
Hey y'all,

Just thought I'd check in, too. Not a lot going on; I'm having all the utilities changed to my name, and I received the initial divorce papers but some of the wording was wrong so my lawyer has responded with our requested changes. Shouldn't be a problem. At this point, it seems so, I dunno - cold? I don't mean the emotions, I mean just doing the paperwork. I guess I'm starting to be removed from Hubby at yet another level. I know at some levels he will never be removed. Can you guys who are in relationships attest to that? Or am I off-base?

Trusting - Did you have your surgery? Can you read this? Hope things went well! You are much too young to have cataracts! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Relady - Haven't heard from you, hope things are well.

Leah - Enjoy your weekend! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/16/04 12:41 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: I think what you are experiencing is the relaxation that comes when a lod has been taken off your shoulders. I always remember the stress that I was under to the point of taking medications. You will be OK with time, don't worry.

Wallace: When will your IRS headaches go away? This stuff has been hanging around to long.

Everyone else: I hope all is well.

Me: Living life. Everything is going pretty good.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 11/16/04 05:00 PM
Help!

No surgery yet Avondale, scheduled for this Friday morning, hence the cry for help.

Sitting at work and receive a call from my former, typically nothing unusual but after hanging up I realized just how unusual it was.

Nothing…she asked for absolutely nothing.

She wanted to know if we had chili last night as she was planning on stopping on the way home to get food for supper. She said that our son had been asking for the last couple of nights for chili and thought she would make some. It’s funny that she asked as our son had already prepared our menu before hand and it originally did not include chili but at the last minute he changed his mind and we ended up with chili mac.

She went on to state that she was planning on bringing supper over Friday evening when she brought the children if I had not already made plans. She just thought it would be easier for me since I was having surgery that morning. Conversation continued on about Thanksgiving Holidays and Christmas and who/how would have what/when on certain days. Nothing was discussed that was not already spelled out in the divorce decree concerning Christmas and Thanksgiving Holidays. She went on to tell me about a wedding she was to attend, the rehearsal dinner, who and where it was.

So…as a foolish man I am left wondering as I sit at my desk.

I received a call from my former asking what we had for supper, discussed what was already known and idle chit-chat for almost 20 minutes and she asked for absolutely nothing.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/16/04 05:56 PM
Trusting - I'll be praying for you Friday! I can't bash the female gender since I'm one of them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and I don't want to get your hopes up in reading more into her motivation for calling. Take it as a nice conversation with a friend, perhaps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> We'll just have to wait and see.

I have a thread on the D/D board and would appreciate any responses from all of my Tough Love friends from your experience. Here it is:"Divorcing" the In-Laws
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 11/17/04 06:01 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by avondale25:
<strong> Take it as a nice conversation with a friend, perhaps. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> We'll just have to wait and see.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As well it was, and as well how I preceived it. It's just the thought that after almost 2 years of this, this nice conversation with a friend, exactly what I have been striving for and praying for also scares me as it was out of the ordinary.

Yes, that's me... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/16/04 11:30 PM
Trusting Him,

That is interesting about your former calling you just to chat. It's hard not to get hopes up isn't it?? It would be nice if it were the beginning of something... even if that something is a more friendly divorced situation. I know you still would love to see that miracle of true togetherness. Me too.

I'm not sure if you read my last post. I wrote you, then tried to edit it with different stuff about children's phone calls. It all ended up as a big quote. Me and my great computer skills. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Anyhow, just wanted to add, I've noticed this past week when their dad was gone, the girls' conversations were very short. It often had to do with timing. If they were in the middle of T.V. or something, they weren't as responsive to him as they were when it was bed time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Maybe, try calling her at bedtime to say goodnight.

Still praying for your surgery. Take care!

Avondale,

I hope you are doing okay. I've been keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. I plan to go to your other thread when I'm done writing here. Keep looking up!

Wallace,

I'm glad to know your computer is almost fixed. Also good to hear things with your girl friend are going well. I hope your IRS problems will soon all be resolved. Take care.

TO ALL OTHERS

Hope you're all doing well. Miss hearing from some of you. God Bless!

<small>[ November 16, 2004, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 11/17/04 02:58 AM
Avondale

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by avondale25:
I can't bash the female gender since I'm one of them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and I don't want to get your hopes up in reading more into her motivation for calling.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And nor would I ever expect you to bash the female gender... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ya'll are definately a bright part of my hope and prayers. Sometimes in ways that you may never know.

I find it quite amazing that in the midst of all of this that you always find the good in things and bring a bright spot to other's lives.

Thank You!


Leah2be

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Leah2be:
If they were in the middle of T.V. or something, they weren't as responsive to him as they were when it was bed time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes...I read your first post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and you second and find them both quite informative. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And after reading you prespective I can see that too. I guess when I tend to be down I see the negative instead of the positive that I should be looking for. I can say that I had them all last night and it was a wonderful evening. I cannot vouch for what they do at Mom's home but I can assure you that we almost always have a wonderful time...regardless of what we do.

And the same goes for you too. The qualities that you and Avondale bring to this thread and to the lives of all of us who read and post here are absoutely wonderful. Somehow you always manage to have a steady head about yourself. Probably stems from your relationship with God as we all know that without us showing His love to others we would all be in pretty bad shape.

Wallace, PetVet

A special thanks to you two guys too. The insight, wisdom and encouragement that you bring and share is always appreciated. It seems that you are always willing to take the time to encourage and lift up others. Keep up the good work!

Everyone else in the Tough Love thread

....kudos to each of you. We all have terrible times that we are either going through are have been through. I want to thank each of you for being here, sharing you life both good and bad and the lessons that you each have learned.

So...Thanks! to all of you.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 11/17/04 07:35 AM
Hey all,

I hope all is well generally. Finally I believe I am too busy even for me!

Avondale

Congratulations twice! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> First on completing your agreement with your H. I'm sure it feels good to qualify on your own for your home, now all the equity will be yours. Also, on your being cancer free for one year. That is really wonderful. Prayer works.

Leah2be

How is everything going with you? You have certainly been in my prayers. Even though I don't post as often as I'd like, I think about all of you often.

Trusting Him

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I received a call from my former asking what we had for supper, discussed what was already known and idle chit-chat for almost 20 minutes and she asked for absolutely nothing.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe me, idle chit-chat is good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> There were times when I wished for it. Those are times when God does His best work.

Wallace

Please don't deny me the girlfriend stories. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Come on, I know there's one!!

Petvet

How is your custody situation? Could she want money from her having custody? Those are expensive battles, aren't they?

Everyone I missed

Have a great and wonderful Holiday.

Me

Everything is going well. I'm in the process of opening an online store as if I don't have enough to do. Yikes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I'm heading back east to Pennsylvania for the Holidays, so I'll need to find winter clothes, yuk!

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/23/04 01:35 AM
Hey all!

I got my computer back up and running.

I'm in the middle of battling the IRS, but I will find some time and see if I can't get caught up on all the posts.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/23/04 12:22 PM
Well Yuck
The one thing I didn't want to happen (having to sign papers and do other divorce-related legal work) during the holidays is occuring. I am mad <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . Hubby told me in February he was going to move towards filing for D and then waits until October to start doing so! Now THIS WEEK is when I have to sign the divorce decree. I do not want to think of this every holiday season for the rest of my life.

Question : How often do you who are already divorced think about the "date" of your finalization? If so, do you think of the date you signed the papers or the date it was filed in court? Arrgh! (end of vent)

Wallace - Good to finally hear from you! I think you are past due on telling some G/F stories <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/23/04 05:51 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

To answer your question... I think about the date I filed for "D. The time of the year which led up to me following through with it all (which is this time of the year, right through the whole holiday season) and I do remember the actual date that it all became final.

In other words yes, I do think about it... and it has been over three years since it all stated up.

I especially dislike this time of year... because this is when everything was really taking off.

Bah! Humbug! you can just call me Scrooge. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It however doesn't have the type of impact it use to have on me. As time goes on... it has just become a memory of what was... so I try not to dwell on it for very long.

G/F and I are going to get "M" sometiime this coming summer. I would give you an exact date, but we are waiting for all this IRS wonderfulness to stop, which is suppose to happen hopefully no later than early next summer.

I could use some prayers concerning this IRS situation... this thing is really becoming ugly.

What's everyone doing for Thankgiving?

Hope everyone is well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/23/04 09:41 PM
Avondale,

I'm so sorry you have to deal with the finalization of everything right now. Although I don't have a divorce date, I do have other very hurtful dates, like our anniversary. Would you believe this happened twice? Talk about dreading an anniversary... Happy Anniversary and by the way I'm in love with someone else. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Also, the first few years after H's birthday were very difficult. He chose that date to take off for Florida to spend his birthday with OW. I was left with three little girls who were devastated that their dad would not be at home to celebrate his birthday with them. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> It was an awful time.

After those occurances, I had to really work hard to have the right thoughts around our anniversary and his birthday. I found I was much happier if I focussed on the positive rather than allowing myself to mentally review the past and torture myself with it. I determined I couldn't keep allowing myself to associate hurtful events of the past with dates that were suppose to be joyous occasions.

Since making a very conscious effort to do so, those dates are much less hurtful. I can't say I never think of the past at those times, but I try hard not to let myself "live" there. I often find myself quoting Philippians 4:8 " Whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure... think about such things." Takes a lot of diligence at times.

Avondale,you have always displayed a courageous, kind spirit. I will pray that God grants you much grace and the ability to forgive all that your ex-H has done. It has to be so difficult...next to impossible without God's help. He will see you through. Take care.

Wallace,

I'm so glad your computer is up and going at last. It sounds as if things have been going really well with your G/F. Wow... a summer wedding!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I pray that your IRS difficulties will soon clear up. I'm sorry things have been so difficult. I'm sure you're very anxious to have all of this resolved. I'll keep praying for you.

Trusting Him

Hope your surgery went well and that you are seeing 20/20 again! Do you have big Thanksgiving plans? I hope you can be with your children over the holidays.

Petvet,

Any news about the child custody situation? I hope things are going well there.

Relady

An online store... you'll have to give us your website address. Wow, you sure do stay busy. I hope your trip to PA. is good.

Thanks so much for your prayers for me. I really do appreciate them. I know that it is only through the Lord that I have the strength to go on. He is faithful, even when I'm not.

To all others on the thread,

Happy Thanksgiving to each of you!! May God bless each of you with a special day as we remember to give thanks in all our different circumstances.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/24/04 12:33 PM
Hi all! I see that my post from last week did not appear.

Avondale: From your H point of view, he is just trying to finish this D stuff before the end of the year. He does not give a damn about your feelings. Yes, it is bad timing, but I can assure you getting a divorce is bad timing regardless of the time of year. Yes, I think about the D date from time to time, but it is only a point of reference. It takes time to get over this stuff.

Wallace: Did I hear the M word? Slow down partner! Relady-Avondale, Help!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Are you going to change your mind when she piss you off again? Please take things slow pal. I want you to be happy.

Leah: As I have said before with Avondale, these WS don't give a damn about our feelings. It's all about them.

Me: Heck Wallace, I can't talk because folks are trying to get me married. Someone last Saturday had the balls to ask us when are we getting engaged. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

There is no custody news. I hope it stays that way.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/24/04 09:13 PM
Hi All,

Well first of all... I hope everyone has a very nice Thanksgiving tomorrow. This will be my third one without my now "exW" being around during this time.

My first Thanksgiving without her, felt very strange... but they have been getting better each passing year.

My G/F and I are having both of our families (kids), and her mother come together at her house tomorrow... so it should be a great time with all.

avondale...

I have to echo the posts that Leah and Petvet stated as well. I'm so sorry that this is happening to you, and it is a lousy time for your "H" to follow through with it all... but as Petvet stated, there really isn't really a good time to go through it.

The hurt, and angst of it all, would be just the same, and it does put a stigma on the holidays because of it.

I was reflecting on past Thangsgivings that my family use to have earlier today. I said a prayer, after I reflected on all the moments, and wished everyone well. That's about as good as it gets from my end... you can't let it consume you. Only through prayer have I been able to get past it all.

Leah...

My heart goes out to you. I can't imagine how a father could do that to his family on his B-day.

You have really put up with quite a bit. I pray that you find the happiness in the near future that you and your children so deserve.

Thank you for your prayers and kind words. I'm glad I got my computer back up and running... it's good to be back.

Petvet...

Yep! I said the "M" word.

I'm still somewhat tenative about it all, but hopefully as time draws closer... I will lose that "once bitten twice shy" feeling, and be able to follow through with it.

"Well when are you two going to get "M"? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> j/k

Glad to hear that there is nothing new on CS front. No news is good news, when it comes to that.

relady, Trusting Him, WGTT, and everyone else that I'm sure I missed...

Hope you are all doing well, and I hope your Holiday is a safe and enjoyable.

"Happy Thanksgiving" everyone!

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/25/04 03:32 PM
Wallace
Did I read that right?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Wallace said: G/F and I are going to get "M" sometime this coming summer.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I thought you were going to wait for the kids to be out of the house!? Isn’t that a few years down the road? What changed your mind? Let me know the date so I can come witness the big event. I think a trip to Colorado would be nice in the summer <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Relady - Tell us more about your online store. It certainly sounds interesting, and I’d love to visit it. Does it have anything to do with real estate? You certainly have a lot of giftings.

Petvet - So if Wallace’s date is this summer, when is yours? LOL jk jk jk <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But I will be glad to go to ATL and wish you well on your big day, too! And yes, we’re glad the child custody issues have died down, and hope they go away completely. Would getting married help or hurt you in that area?

Leah - What can I say? Once again you have encouraged me - thanks so much! I hope your H is with you today and your family can celebrate Thanksgiving together.

Trusting - Do you have your kids today? I hope you are able to be with friends and/or family of some sort.

Me - Haven’t signed final papers, should be tomorrow or Monday. Yuck. On the upside, I am taking the token amount of lump sum payment from H’s part of house settlement and taking my daughter on a mother/daughter trip somewhere warm in January. Today it's lunch with friends from my church.

Sooooo Should we plan a Tough Love reunion at Wallace's wedding or Petvet's wedding? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 11/26/04 02:13 AM
Avondale

No, no children today. I had them last year. I guess just another side effect of divorce. But all was well as a group of us went to a local Mission and helped to serve Thanksgiving Lunch to around 300 or so needy and homeless people. It was a great time.

Afterwards I managed to spend time with my family and sisters. So...all in all ti was a good day.

Surgery went well. Had a follow up appointment Wednesday and after 30 yers I have 20/25 vision in my right eye. Doctor suggected trying not to wear glasses. His theory is that I have a right eye that sees good for distance and a left eye for reading, eventually he says my brain will learn to adapt or focus where when necessary. Who knows!

Everybody else

Pray tht all had a wonderful Trukey Day <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/26/04 01:25 PM
Avondale

Some place warm in January... Oh that sounds so nice!! I'm glad you're thinking of those "good" things. Keep it up. You're going to make it just fine. I'm looking forward to hearing good things about your upcoming new year. It's a fresh start- a new beginning.

My husband was home yesterday, at least part of the time. It was not good. I'll write more under "me". Thanks for your good wishes. I hope your Thanksgiving dinner with friends went well.

I love the idea of a "Tough Love" reunion. Count me in! Either wedding will work for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace

So what do you think about the above? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Sounds like a nice Thanksgiving! How do your children all get along? How old will your kids be when you get married this summer?

I hope your IRS situation is settling down. Could it be resolved by the new year? It sure would feel good to have that behind you.


Trusting Him

I'm so glad your surgery went well and that your eyesight is so improved. You know what your eye Dr. told you is the same philosophy that my eye Dr. is using with my contacts. The left sees far away, the right up close. Hope it works for you. It probably would be nice to dispense of the glasses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I'm sorry you weren't with your kids for Thanksgiving. But how nice of you to spend your Thanksgiving in service to others. That's taking a difficult situation and turning it around for good. Thinking of others is something you seem to do very well at. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Could you please read my ending post? I'd love to get your perspective. Thanks.

Petvet, Relady, WGTT, and Others on the Thread

Hope each of you enjoyed a wonderful Thanksgiving. I appreciate each of you and what you contribute here. Thank you for your help and all those things that you have taught me by your lives and your encouragement. Speaking of help, any thoughts on what follows would be appreciated. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ME

I need to ask if I'm being reasonable in me expectations... A little background first. My husband's mother is now temporarily working for him. He's very close to his mom and allows her entrance into his life where he will not allow me.

As you probably know by now my H has his own business and is extremely busy. He works around the clock and travels extensively. In fact, he just left this morning for yet another trip.

On Wed. I wrote an e-mail to H telling him all the things that I appreciate about him. I thanked him for being a good provider, etc. Later, I tried to talk to H several times. Each time he said he was too busy and he was obviously upset about something.

After making dinner for him, I left to take the girls to a movie as he was still working and unable to come home. By the time I returned he was sound asleep. So, as is typical, we didn't connect at all that day.

That's the setting. Yesterday morning H was up at five AM. I was trying to rest as I had stayed up past midnight preparing the big dinner for family (Both sides came). After showering, he told me he was taking a drive to think. (This is a trigger for me as "thinking" in the past included OW) So I politely asked him if he could think at home. He said no, that was not part of his plans. He then left.

I called on the cell to say this was a trust issue. He said he was sitting in his mom's driveway. I asked if he could please talk with me some, either on the phone or at home. He got angry and said I was trying to control him, then he hung up on me. I called his mom's house and received the same statement again. (So yes, he really was at his mom's)

He came home over two hours later. Things went south from there. He kept insisting I owed him an apology. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Was I unreasonable in being disappointed with the lack of priority given to me? Was I being controlling? This whole thing makes me angry as I just view it as one more outward display of how little he seems to really care about me.

But I'm willing to listen to other perspectives. I sincerely do want to be reasonable and respectful in my relationship with my H. I'm trying to understand what is continuously going wrong between us. ANY THOUGHTS OR IDEAS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. Thanks so much!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/26/04 04:49 PM
Leah - What an extra-stressful day you must have had yesterday! I hope you were able to enjoy your side of the family, if nothing else. It is a lot of trouble to do the "Turkey thing" for so many people - I've done it a number of years - and I know they all appreciate your efforts.
I'll respond to your question:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">On Wed. I wrote an e-mail to H telling him all the things that I appreciate about him </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is great - how thoughtful of you to express your thanks in a written way during Thanksgiving. Did your email contain any references to the Lord? (More about this later)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Each time he said he was too busy and he was obviously upset about something </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Are you thinking that what you wrote upset him, or could it be something else? I wonder if he was feeling a little bit convicted about his horrible behavior...?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> After showering, he told me he was taking a drive to think. (This is a trigger for me as "thinking" in the past included OW)
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, do you think he's thinking about an OW or the e-mail you sent? From your post it seems the time frame of his "thinking" could have been triggered by the email you sent. If you're thanking the Lord in your email for sending you a Godly man, (who isn't acting godly) then he's going to feel convicted about his behavior.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So yes, he really was at his mom's </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't remember, does his mom know about the A's?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Was I unreasonable in being disappointed with the lack of priority given to me? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Absolutely NOT! ! ! ! And it's not just priority for you - he was missing time with his kids that morning too.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Was I being controlling? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">From his paranoid, unrealistic point of view, probably. However, from a healthy marriage point of view, NO.

I think sometimes when you're in a bad state of being (marriage, personal life, job, etc.) it is impossible to assess what is healthy and reasonable. Your perspective gets skewed. "The norm" is unhealthy so we lower our expectations to that level, and don't expect/desire more. I think you know enough (and your walk with God is strong enough on its own) that you realize something isn't right but it's difficult to verbalize, much less act upon. Now the difficult question - do you have any more concrete evidence of an OW or affair?
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 11/26/04 05:05 PM
Leah2be

My heart and prayers go out to your and your family. After reading your post I can only say that I was reminded so much of what transpired in our marriage. So I guess that means any advice or input from me will probably be flawed as our’s continued South.

You sent you husband an email telling him all the things you appreciated about him. After my former announced that she was tired of playing games and pretending I too began to tell her just how much I appreciated her, how much she was worth to me and the children and of all the other things that I had neglected in our previous years. Her thoughts on that were that I was trying to control her. Long before I discovered the presence of the OM in her life I had at various times stopped by her place of work to leave a card, note, flower or some token of appreciation for her. She felt that I was checking up on her, did not trust her and was trying to keep tabs on her every movement. While I wish that were true it was way out in left field. The Pastor I began counseling with even warned me about OM or OW entering into our lives at this juncture in our lives and I laughed at him… No way, not former, she would never do anything like that.

But I remember vividly the day I actually stopped by and entered into her place of work. A lady there said that she had just returned from lunch and would page her. When she entered the room she went completely white, I mean completely. Her reaction was one that I had never witnessed in her under any circumstances. It was only later I understood her reaction that day.

I owe him an apology. For what? (trigger) After many months of trying deal with OM and the effects he was having on my wife I finally summoned the courage to talk to his wife and ask her to please have her husband refrain from and interaction with my wife. When former learned of this she demanded that I write a letter of apology to OM and his wife telling them that I was sorry and out of line of even suggesting that there was something between the two of them. And to think I almost did just that, until I asked OM once again to stay out of our lives and he replied “When you call your wife and tell her that you have asked me to stay out of her life I will comply with your request.” Now get this…this OM was our Sunday School teacher. Needless to say I spent several months writing his name on 40 caliber slugs and inserted them in a magazine and as I forgave him I would remove them and wipe his name from them. Today I can say that there are no longer any slugs with his name on them. He has been forgiven as has my former, at least in my eyes. Where they stand is between them and God.

Were you being unreasonable? From where I sit I would have to say no.

Were you being controlling? From where I sit, again, no.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I sincerely do want to be reasonable and respectful in my relationship with my H. I'm trying to understand what is continuously going wrong between us.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I too felt this way and still continue to today…alas…as of yet still treat her this way and am still trying to understand what is wrong between us. I feel that it is not what is wrong with us but more of a matter of what is wrong between them and God.

I can tell you this, the greatest two fears in my formers mind was her parents learning about the OM in her life and actually filing for divorce. The 2nd OM and I have had several conversations since he and his wife have decided to work on their marriage (yes, it is doing quite well at this time) and he told me that my former was waiting for me to file for divorce, that while I had changed and was doing everything that she had ever dreamed of she still felt I was trying to control and manipulate her every waking minute. A thought that continues on until today. Just the other day I was told by her best friend that former feels that I am trying to control her relationships with other men. Ha! In 17 months she and I have had to conversations about her boyfriends, one in September of last year when she was including our YD in her dates and again this October when I learned that he had been added to the list of authorized people to pick our children up from school. Two conversations in 17 months and each one almost a year apart and I am trying to control her.

I feel the real issue is not you but him. Is he waiting for you to make a move and file for divorce? As much as I hate to even mention it, it there doubts in your mind that he is committed to this marriage? Do you fear that he may be involved with OM at this time? I know you struggle between what is right and best in Gods eyes and the eyes of your children, what is best for your children and probably many other issues. But I also know the struggle of continuing to live in that type of environment where you feel that you give and give and never see anything in return.

From my perspective you have some really hard decisions to make. From a Biblical view I believe you have the right to divorce your husband because of adultery. No, that is not the first option as we should be willing to forgive and restore that covenant we made with our spouses and God but if the two of you are not each committed to that then what is in store for the remainder of your life? It sounds as if you have forgiven and have committed to this relationship but you are the only one that has done that, he’s still out in left field somewhere trying to figure out what he would like to do.

Maybe divorce is what he wants but does not have the courage to be the “bad guy” and actually file. Maybe legal separation before divorce is needed for him to “find himself.” I know that when my former spoke those words almost 2 years ago I had an awakening in what she needed and desired from a marriage, alas it appeared in her mind to be too late as the grass looked greener on the other side. Does either of us really know where and what our spouse’s minds really think about. I do know that just this year, while in the midst of her serious relationship with her last boyfriend my former felt like this:

I have everything I need, a nice house, all the furnishings I need or desire, a nice car, three wonderful children and a man whom I love and I feel loves me. But…I feel so alone, so empty inside. I have no idea who to trust, who to lean on or who to love.

I ask, does that sound like someone who is happy with themselves or their present situation. And even in the midst of that the best she can say is that we can be friendly but not friends.

And as much as I hate to admit it I see a lot of what you describe in your husband in my former wife, then and now.

And we won’t even get into the family thing; just know that blood is thicker than water and that will always be an uphill struggle. Avondale and I both can attest to that.

While none of what I have written probably helps you just know that you and your family are in my prayers. Listen to God and separate your desires from His desires and see where that leads you. Children are resilient, children are strong and as long as they see a least one of the parents attempting to make life better for them they bounce back even quicker.

May God Bless You Today

P.S. Duh! after cutting and pasting I just realized how long that was. me thinks prehaps I best shut my mouth <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and after reading Avondale's post I almost deleted it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ November 26, 2004, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: Trusting Him ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/26/04 09:43 PM
Avondale and Trusting Him

I just wanted to thank you both so much for your quick replies. I have read both of your responses and was affirmed and encouraged by your caring words. I've been thinking of what you wrote all afternoon. I was gone for most of the day and have to take off again in a few minutes.

I'm taking my middle daughter and some of her friends out for the evening. This is part of an early birthday gift. Two of my girls are December birthdays. Keeps me busy! I'll write more when I can. Thanks again.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/27/04 04:18 PM
Avondale,

I just wrote a long post to you and just managed to lose it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I hate it when I do that. I attempted to quote you and respond to you that way, but then when I went back to read and quote Trusting Him it all disappeared. So apparently quotes can only be a one time deal. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I'll give the "Condensed Version" of my post. You asked if I wrote about the Lord in my e-mail. After much consideration of what to write, I decided against that. I was trying to keep it positive yet sincere. A tricky thing at times, based on where we are with each other.

I believe he was upset with things going on at work, although I don't know if that's all he was upset about. Conviction? An interesting thought. Possibly. I'm never quite sure what is on H's mind. Because of his erratic, on the edge behaviour, I often can't figure out what he's thinking or doing.

So in answer to your question about OW, I truly don't know. There may or may not be one. I continuly pray that truth will be revealed. I have no concrete evidence either way at this point in time.

The one thing that causes me to doubt my H's fidelity is the lack of intimacy here. It's been almost a year without SF. That isn't for lack of interest on my part. Rather unusual for a healthy 39 year old man...don't you think?

Sorry, I lost my first post. I'm not sure I got to answer all of your questions but I'm afraid of doing the quote thing again. Thanks again Avondale for sharing your perspective. I always enjoy hearing from you.

Trusting Him,

Thank you,too, for your sympathetic and caring words. They mean so much to me. I had to smile when you wrote that my marriage reminds you a lot of your's. I often think the same thing when I read your posts. Your former seems to have much in common with my H. Their perspectives and communication seem very similar. I guess that is a pretty scarry thought. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Writing his name on 40 caliber slugs...what a concrete and creative way to forgive someone. God alone can help us with this.
A Bible study by Beth Moore entitled "Breaking Free" helped me through the forgiveness process. I'm finding it to be an ongoing thing with my H.

When you wrote that you often have questioned and tried to understand what went wrong in your marriage as I am doing, it made me remember something I wrote long ago to you. I wrote that we just have to let go and try not to focus too much on what they are thinking or doing because it can be so counter productive. I guess I need to follow my own advice. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I too often lose my focus and get too caught up in trying to fix something I can't fix. Letting go is not one of my stronger suits.

You wrote that it's probably getting time to make some tough decisions. I feel like I've been on this roller-coaster for way too long. It will be six years in January since it began. I'm trying so hard to wait on the Lord and do the right thing, yet it seems I'm continuously wondering what the "right" thing is. You are so right when you say it is difficult to live in a marriage where you are the only one who truly seems to be giving and trying. It is exhausting.

I'd have to write a book if I were to detail all the thoughts I have in regard to staying in this "room-mate type marriage" verses divorce. I struggle so to know what God would want. I don't think he would want us to live with such disrespect and disregard, yet I know He hates divorce. It seems I'm constantly trying to choose the lesser of two evils.

I have thought a separation would be helpful but in our state there is no such thing as a legal separation. You have to file divorce to get things moving. Also, my H has refused to leave. He says I can leave if I'm not happy and I can leave the girls with him. Obviously, I am not going to do that. So, all in all, I have myself in a real dilema. I so appreciate your thoughts and prayers, as only God truly has the answers. Thanks again, Trusting Him. Take care!
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/28/04 12:24 AM
After giving it much more thought, I'm at the point where I feel my only answer to survival in this relationship is to emotionally detach and let go. I'm still not really sure how to do that.

It seems to be the opposite of everything I am. I tend to be warm and responsive to others. My hearts right there but I'm so tired of the hurt and rejection. Is there any other answer? If I need to practice detachment, I really need some help. Thanks to all for any suggestions.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/28/04 12:42 AM
Leah ,
I was going to reply earlier but had a computer situation myself. Let me suggest whenever you write a long post, to write it in a word processing program first (like MS Word or WordPerfect) and copy and paste it to MB. Then if it gets lost, you just copy and paste again.
I know just thinking of this goes against everything in your soul. I don’t remember what state you live in. I’m sure you’ve thought of all the ramifications of any legal action. Ultimately, it is your decision. Have you gotten any (recent) input from the pastor/elders/leaders in your church?

Also, I don’t know if it’s a good idea about practicing detachment; it seems that would really weigh your soul down a lot in an unhealthy way. Why not post about that subject on the EN board? It would be good to get some input from the old timers over there.

You really are in my prayers! Much love to you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/28/04 02:06 AM
Avondale,

I live in Virginia. I'm not thinking of taking any immediate legal action as it really isn't a good time for that. But I am thinking about the whole emotional detachment thing. I certainly do appreciate what you have to say about it seeming "unhealthy". I can wonder about that too. But what I'm doing now is also unhealthy...continuously trying to have an authentic relationship with someone who doesn't really want me in the same way.

Thanks for the sugestion of writing on EN board. I've done that and will try writing it up different to see if there's any response. Thanks most of all for being a caring friend. I appreciate you so very much!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: XScoundrel Re: Tough Love - 11/28/04 06:15 AM
"Set them free. It's the only way to keep them.

If they feel trapped in a "bad" marriage, attempts to keep them will only intensify the trapped feeling and they will only want to escape more.

I earned my experience the hard way. I hope it will help my brother."

The above is from "Kevin" (Father of 1 Husband of 0) way up toward the beginning of this thread. I am expecting to be served with divorce papers this week. I don't know how to respond. Delay, hoping she'll change her mind or see something different in me? Or do as recommended here and give her the divorce as quickly as possible? The ramifications for selling our house (which I know she wants to do) is huge. Please advise.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/28/04 11:50 AM
XScoundrel - The person to whom you are referring, “Kevin” only posted on this thread that one time, three years ago. Please don’t take that one post out of context. If you read the posts after that one, you will see where several "old timers" with experience said to NOT do that. If you're the one to file, you need to be able to live with the worst case scenario - that you ended your marriage. Here at MB, one receives all kinds of “advice” and one has to consider it all and apply it to their own unique situation. That goes for any thread you read <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You said: Or do as recommended here and give her the divorce as quickly as possible?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That was never recommended here. But it does go (somewhat, if applied correctly in certain situations) along with Dobson’s “Tough Love” book. Most of us who have continued with this thread tried to delay as long as possible and/or gave many second chances to our WS. I think all of us did it out of hope that they’d come out of their fog. Not everyone was successful in recovering their M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You said: The ramifications for selling our house (which I know she wants to do) is huge. Please advise.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you elaborate more? I’m sure we’d be glad to help if we knew more about your story. What state do you live in? Do you HAVE to sell your house as part of a financial settlement? Has one of you already moved out? What are you thinking regarding custody? Your signature line implies you’re in recovery. Did a specific incident happen to change that status?

<small>[ November 28, 2004, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 11/28/04 07:45 PM
Hi all! Just bouncing in for a moment.

Leah: Once the trust factor has been broken, it takes alot of time to get it back. As I told Avondale, one has to decide how much one can take before one's health and mental state is affected.

Avondale: Did I hear something about a trip! Jamaica, Belize, Mexico (area just south of San Diego), Bermuda, etc. I think it about time for you to get your groove on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Wallace: Well Bud, it's time to do alot of soul searching about your upcoming M. Hey, does she have a RING? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Have you propose? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Me: No date, ring, or anything!

Later.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 11/28/04 08:39 PM
Leah2be

I have to retract most of what I wrote yesterday. I was just watching “The Preachers Wife” and it brought to mind so many things that I tried, have tried and continue to try to express, it just did it in a better way than I ever could. And yes…I have to say I spent a good part of the movie wiping the tears from my eyes.

A statement that really stood out was when the preacher was telling his wife “When we choose to love someone we are really choosing to love God.” Ouch! That hit home with me in my present situation but it also brought to mind you and your current situation.

Can I tell you how to love your spouse? No. Can I tell you that it will get better? No, I cannot. What I can tell you is that a marriage is a covenant relationship between us and God. And in the midst of your struggles you can be assured that He will never leave your nor forsake you. In our human ways we find it so hard to grasp the concept or the depth of His love for us. Under God’s laws are you allowed divorce? Yes, but I do feel that forgiveness and a decision to honor that covenant relationship takes precedence. We are commanded to love and I believe also to forgive but we are not commanded to divorce.

Just a prayer for you,

So, for this cause I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ of whom the whole family in Heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner man; that Christ may dwell in your heart by faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth and length and depth and height, and to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge, that you might be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever.

But in all these things you can more than conquer through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate you from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Amen

Does this give you the wisdom or strength to continue to stay in your present situation? I have no idea but I can say or express that because of the love and desire that I still have for my former wife, a love that in no way even begins to compare to the Love that Christ has for us, that it is His desire and His wish that somehow…someway…you have the marriage that you desire to have.

What happens when we are filled with the fullness of God? We begin to love just as Christ loved us. That agape love which only comes from Him and through Him as we learn to look and depend on Him. That love where we find ourselves able to love others expecting absolutely nothing in return. Delight yourself also in Jehovah, and He will give you the desires of your heart. For I know the purposes which I am purposing for you, says Jehovah; purposes of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you shall call on Me, and you shall go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And you shall seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

Where does this put us? Depending on him in hope and faith that as we learn to love as He loved that He will give us the desires of our heart. But in the end it is still a decision that only you and God can make together. A decision that I pray He will lead you too and then give you the strength and wisdom to stand by that decision.

I have discovered that the fruit of the Spirit is just that, fruit. For so long I had always quoted that verse as plural, I guess meaning or thinking that I got to choose which specific fruit I wanted. Only in the last two years have I discovered that it is singular and I am supposed to be learning to express ALL of the fruit of the Spirit:

Love
Joy
Peace
Long-suffering
Kindness
Goodness
Faith
Meekness
Self-control

And as I look back over that list it is indeed a scary thought because I know that without His presence and His love flowing through me that no one will see any of those traits in me.

Bear in mind that everything written is done so in context of Dobson's "Tough Love". You can and are epected to set healthy boundaries that your husband can see and respect. Weather he does is his choice.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/29/04 05:37 AM
Trusting Him,

You need to be a writer. What you wrote was so beautiful it brought tears to my eyes. It is a post I will re-read in the future. Such Godly, wonderful thoughts - So encouraging! Thank you for giving your valuable time in writing such a wonderful post.

I truly do not know what the future holds but I know Who holds my hand, as the song goes. I will continue to look to Him as He alone is my One True Hope. Thank you for the verses. I will read them again tomorrow as it's nearing one in the morning. I'll write again when I'm a bit more awake. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> God bless you for reminding me of our Hope!
Posted By: XScoundrel Re: Tough Love - 11/29/04 06:46 AM
Avondale, thanks for your response. My story is under the "journey of pain" thread. I am still in active recovery. My wife, when she has been trying, has tried to recover on her own. Nothing legal has been determined yet but I know she wants to sell our house. I am NOT seeking divorce, she is. In some ways I was 'lucky' on d-day because I was not in a relationship at the time that I had to break off. I've never wanted to lose my family.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 11/29/04 05:30 PM
Trusting Him,

Thank you again for the inspiring post. I just finished reading it again. I have a question for you in regards to what you have written.

Do you think that in order to stay and continue to show Agape love to my H, that I might need to detach some emotionally? I'm asking because I feel to love him in a romantic, human way at all is to ask to be hurt. You write that Agape love is able to give with no expectation of anything in return. I agree. But does that require a little of the "human love" being put on hold through a process of detachment? I've asked about this over in the Emotional Needs forum. I would be interested in your perspective.

I hope my question makes sense to you. This is an area of thought that I have come back to as the pain in this marriage continues. Would it be a healthy boundary at this point? Thanks for your input.

Avondale,

How are you doing my friend? I've been thinking about you a lot this past week. Is anything official yet? I hope you enjoyed a Happy Thanksgiving and that you are doing okay. Please let us know when you can. God bless!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 11/30/04 01:35 AM
Hey All,

Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving!

Had a very nice time at my G/F's house on Thanksgiving... lots of good food, and good company as well... it was very enjoyable.

leah...

When I had my business, I was not the best husband in the world. In fact I was very far from it. I concentrated on the business not knowing that behind the curtain, my "M" was falling apart.

I only wanted to be the best provider I could be... and I wanted my family to not have to go without... and they didn't. Except for one major thing... me!

Me being a Father, and a Husband.

For 23 years I thought I was doing all the right things, when in fact I was doing a terrible job as a family man. I was consumed with business, and a very profitable business it was... but such as most everything... all things must pass.

I lost my business... lost my "M", and had my family shattered into pieces, that will probably never, ever be put back together.

I never got the emails from my exW that you sent to your "H". All I ever got for a response in my "M", is that everything was just fine. Well, in fact everything was not just fine... as you can see... and everyone in my family paid a very dear price for it all.

I think you may have touched a nerve with your "H".

I think, he "IS" in fact thinking about what he has going, and he may be in fact taking a look at what in fact is at stake, and the possibilties of losing his family.

You did a good Plan A. move, and I would keep that up... I wouldn't detach as of yet.

A friend of mine who use to post quite a bit did the detachment scenario (I wish she was here to give you her opinion on all of this). Her name was "Free", and she put God behind her on this and made up her mind that her "H" was either going to straighten out, or she was going to "D" him. This went on for quite sometime... but eventually... through God's will he did a complete about face and their "M" has never been better.

Free, if you read this... please chime in and give Leah your perspective on this.

Hang in there Leah, and give it some more time. It's easier to work on a "M" that's broken, than to work on one that has been completely destroyed by "D".

I understand exactly how you feel... once trust is broken... it takes a huge effort for the other person to regain that trust back... and sometimes it will never be regained, depending on how they act from that point foward.

I don't buy in on agape love in "M"... you either love that person with very emotional feelings, or it's time to call it a day.

IMHO... you can't love someone, and I mean really love someone, without any emotional attachment. Your just fooling yourself, and causing everyone involved nothing but heartbreak.

Trusting Him...

Excellent prayer you posted... it was very uplifting, and if you have more in you... feel free to post them.

I'm glad to hear that your eye surgery went well... praise God.

Many years ago... I had to have my eyes scraped when I worked on construction sites. I had to have it done three times... and it's no fun.

I think I would rather about lose anything, but my eyesight... glad to hear that you came through it well.

Sorry to hear that you didn't get to spend Thanksgiving with your family... but look at all the good that came out of it in spite of the circumstances. The Lord will surely bless you if you continue down the road your following.

I had to smile when you told us of writing the OM's name on the bullets. I know that feeling all to well... unfortunately for me... I haven't gotten past the forgiving stages yet. I thought I had... but when the stuff still keeps coming at you... it makes it tough.

Petvet...

Well my friend... I did buy my G/F an engagement ring, and once this IRS stuff is finished, we are going to set a date to get "M".

I don't remember proposing to her... we were in a jewelry store, and it just kind of happened.

We are suppose to wait until the Kids get up and move forward, but she wants to go ahead with a summer wedding... so I guess we will see if in fact it happens.

I'm not in any hurry... I have the IRS to take up all of my time. LOL!

Well my G/F want's a very small intimate wedding, but hey... I think we could make a "Tough Love" wedding out of it, if she gives me the nod.

Personally though... I'm torn.

I do want to marry her... but I'm not sure I'm ready to go through with the commitment of "M" right at the moment. I still have a lot of issues I'm dealing with, spiritually, mentally, financially, and socially.

She has a full court press on, and I'm playing defense at the moment, but in reality, I just want to give in, and go through with it... but it just scares me to death.

Could use some advice on this, as I'm going deeper into the totality of it all... and want to make sure it's not another mistake, such as my last "M" turned out to be.

XScoundrel....

Welcome to the "Tough Love" thread.

Sorry to see you here, but if you have to be here... this place is as good as any.

I briefly read through your thread, and your in a very difficult postion I'm afraid to say.

You broke a convenant when you went out and had the "A's" you had.

I don't know if you know how devestating that is, when the other spouse finds out about it... but it is in fact like having your heart ripped out of your very body.

Your "W" is very hurt and very distrusting, and she has every right to be. Your shattered her trust in you... and that is going to take some serious work to regain that back.

Sometimes you can regain that trust back... depending on the person. With others... no matter what you do... it will never ever be regained.

Your dealing with a person who most likely is very hurt. She may get pat it... but on the other hand... she may never get past it.

Keep going to your meetings, and keep doing your Plan A. Only time will tell what direction you may be heading in.

I will give you credit... at least you cleaned up your act, and are doing the things that need to be done.

Prayers for you my friend, as I know the angst you are feeling.

avondale...

How did you make out with your meeting?

If I do get "M" this coming summer... you will be the first person I invite to the "Tough Love" wedding.

I'm glad to hear that your taking a negative and turning it into positive (going on a trip with the additional money).

Let us know how it all turned out for you.

(((((avondale)))))

Hope everyone is getting along well.

Stay Strong!

<small>[ November 29, 2004, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 11/30/04 12:37 PM
Wallace ! Dear Wallace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Your post is soooooo full of inconsistancies. Since I’m the helpful sort, I’ll point them out to you:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't remember proposing to her </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That’s cuz you didn’t....she has manipulated you.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are suppose to wait until the Kids get up and move forward, but she wants to go ahead with a summer wedding </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right - you both had an agreement to wait for the kids to move out. Is her agenda more important than the welfare of your kids?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do want to marry her... but </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stop right there buddy. If you ever have reason to say “....BUT” then you need to stop and reassess if you really want to do whatever it is (in your case, marry).
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I still have a lot of issues I'm dealing with, spiritually, mentally, financially, and socially </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think you’ll be the best hubby in the world (which is what your g/f deserves) if that’s the case?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She has a full court press on, and I'm playing defense at the moment </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Obviously
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just want to give in, and go through with it... but it just scares me to death. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is “giving in and going through it” a picture of wedded bliss??
Wallace, you’re just not ready, and I don’t think she is either. I think she just wants security and is probably dealing with issues herself.

Where is Relady when I need her?!?!? If you do get married, I still wanna attend!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Your post to Leah was VERY well put.

Trusting - That was a good prayer. How are you doing? Any more in-law interaction?
Me - Should be signing D papers today or tomorrow, depending on mail. I'll keep y'all posted. I close on MY house Friday - oh the responsibility <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/01/04 06:21 AM
[/B] [B]Wallace,

Thanks for writing me with your perspective on things. I appreciate and respect your viewpoint. It's interesting to know your history of priorities with family and business. If you don't mind, I'd like to pick your brain a bit to see if you might be able to shed some light on our situation in regards to husbands misplaced priorities.

If your wife had ever confronted you with her desire to have you home more, would you have done things differently? I know you would now knowing what you know, but how would you have responded then?

I ask because my H and I have had many discussions about his business and my feelings in regard to his huge absense in our lives. I've expressed to him that I would very sincerely love to live in a smaller home, continue to drive my old van, etc. and have him home with us,than all the possible stuff we might accumulate. The material goods mean so little to me in comparison with our marriage and our family.

He definitely knows how I feel, yet he is so driven to be successful and is so consumed by his business. I just think it is so sad to see him miss out on all that is truly important in life.

What do you think would be my best strategy in encouraging him to invest more here at home verses his business? Do I just keep my mouth shut since he already knows how much he is missed? It seems by not saying anything, he assumes everything is okay. He manages to quickly forget all past conversations. But on some level, he must know the truth about our relationship and his absense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Any thoughts you or others might have on this would be appreciated.

And now onto you... Wallace, my friend, I'm very concerned about you and your upcoming wedding. You didn't leave us very secure with the idea that you're at all eager about the timing of this union. It seems you're feeling coerced into doing something you're not at all sure of. I'd hate for you to get into a situation that you later regret or even possibly resent your G/F for.

Please, please be careful. Think through this thing. If she's the right one, she will be willing to wait for the right time. How many more years do you have before your children are grown? I'd love to see you not only more comfortable but also excited to make this lady your bride!

Avondale,

I know I'm no Relady but I gave it my best shot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Just want you to know you're very much in my thoughts and prayers. Much love to you Avondale. ((((((Avondale)))))
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/01/04 03:08 AM
Hi All,

Well so far so good with my computer... it's still going, with a few glitches here and there, but we are working them through. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

avondale...

Your right! I am all over the place with my mind set.

I think the biggest one at the moment, is this IRS situation that is throwing me for a loop. Of course this let's get married right now thing is working me as well.

In retrospect, I do love my G/F, and I would like to marry her when things are settled, and all the kids have moved on like we originally agreed upon. But I know... deep in my heart and I know she knows as well... that I'm not ready yet. I think she realizes that she is not ready yet as well.

So when push comes to shove on this marriage thing, and as it draws closer... I think we will both realize that we need to put it on hold until we know when the timing is right, and it will in fact work.

And yes, I am fighting it, and my G/F knows it.

I'm glad to hear that your going close on your house soon. It's a major step... but when it's done... you will feel relieved that that part of it is out of the way.

For me... when I had my house retitled and refinanced in my name only... it was a major first step for me.

I knew this was the beginning of a new life for me that I never had planned on, but in fact was forced to do. I accepted what was... and moved forward from there. It's a bitter sweet realization, but it was something that had to be done in order to move forward in my new life circumstances.

As always avondale... you put things into perspective for me. It's a darn shame that everything that you posted was correct. Thank you for your input on my situation, You and everyone else on this thread are the greatest, and I thank the Lord for the wisdom that you all put forth.


Leah...

Thank you for your input on my current situation. You did a great job on pointing out what I am dealing with... relady would be proud.

As a former business owner and husband... I will try to shed some light on some of the questions you asked.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

If your wife had ever confronted you with her desire to have you home more, would you have done things differently? I know you would now knowing what you know, but how would you have responded then?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My exW never confronted me with her wanting me home more. As I reflected through my past marriage... I personally believe that she may have been cheating on me through most of my marriage. She is very materialistic... and it took me many years to realize just how off the Richter scale she was with her materialism.

In fact... I believe that family was secondary to her needs. She came first... and God help anyone who would stand in her way.

If she had come to me with her concerns back then about me not being around... I probably would of just brushed it off, as just her thinking of herself and not looking at the big picture of financial security, and seeing that the family and the business were well taken care of.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I ask because my H and I have had many discussions about his business and my feelings in regard to his huge absense in our lives. I've expressed to him that I would very sincerely love to live in a smaller home, continue to drive my old van, etc. and have him home with us,than all the possible stuff we might accumulate. The material goods mean so little to me in comparison with our marriage and our family.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Had my exW came to me with statements, such as you have posted, I would have taken a look at what could be done to lessen the impact of my absence. Unfortunately my exW never did say anything remotely close to what your expressing.

After becoming succesful with the business... I finally realized the price everyone had paid. I came to the realization, and even told my wife... that in fact it's the little things in life that count. That all that we had... meant nothing. I did what I did in order to share it with my family... for if you have everything, and no one to share it with... it doesn't mean a thing.

The ironic part about it all... is after a very long period of time... I started to see that the business was taking away from my wife and family... so I walked away from the business. My exW was furious with me... and that is when the fun from her side really kicked in.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do you think would be my best strategy in encouraging him to invest more here at home verses his business? Do I just keep my mouth shut since he already knows how much he is missed? It seems by not saying anything, he assumes everything is okay. He manages to quickly forget all past conversations. But on some level, he must know the truth about our relationship and his absense.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You need to work a good Plan A., and while your doing it... let him know, from time to time, and in so many words, without sounding like you may be nagging him, that you would like a simpler life, and in fact it is the little things in life that count, and you really would rather have a family than all the materialistic things he can provide for you.

Don't go over board with any of it... otherwise he will probably resent what your doing, and look at it as a dstraction from what his main goal is at this point in time. But you need to communicate with him that your not happy with this arrangement without sounding like your nagging (easier said than done... but it can be done).

Remember... it's the little things in life that count. I believe you understand what that means. Now, you have to get him to realize it as well. If he doesn't realize it soon... he may soon regret that he didn't.

Do whatever you can do to make your limited time together with your "H" as enjoyable as you can. Sometimes you don't realize what you have lost... until you have lost it. Hopefully your "H" will wake up, before it's too late!

Hope everyone else is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/01/04 05:46 AM
Leah2be

No, I have not forgotten you post or your request. Pressed for time as the last two days have been busy and I had a sick child today.

I will post more after some deep thought and reflection not only on your first questions but also the other you posed and were answered by Wallace.

In a nutshell;

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you think that in order to stay and continue to show Agape love to my H, that I might need to detach some emotionally? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I do not feel that you should attempt any emotional detachment. Once you start down that road it only ends in a dead-end. Can you establish boundaries that would husband would have to respect? Yes

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm asking because I feel to love him in a romantic, human way at all is to ask to be hurt. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In a vain attempt to let you view how I feel about this. Any time we attempt to love in a human we open ourselfes up for hurt and disappointment. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I look at my former just as I do my children. A lot of people tell me that is a foolish and shildish way to approach things but this I know. There have been time and I am sure that there will be times when each of my children will either do ar say something that hurt...eally hurts me. Bur...at no time do I ever stop loving or withdraw my love for them.

I think I may have shared a stroy about our YD. We had a talk on actions, concenquences and love. So try to picture this if you can. We took 3 bears down from her bed, in the arms of each bear we placed a barbie doll and on the heads of each bear we sat a hat. Out in front of the 3 bears sat a ruler.

Bears = Me, Former and YD
Hats = Love we have for each other
Barbie Dolls = Actions
Ruler = Boundary

In my feeble attempt to explain to her I took the doll in her bears arms and moved it out beyond the boundary to reflect her inappropriate actions when they crossed the boundary. I then explained that because her actions, not YD, but her actions caused consequences in her life. The point I was trying to get her to see was that no matter what her actions did Daddy would always love her, hence the hat (she calls it a love rag) still sitting on the bears head.

I then asked her what Daddy was upset about. She replied that I was upset at her. I asked her to again look where her actions were, where her bear was and where the love rag was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Her eyes lit up as she realized that it was only her actions and not her that I was upset at. That it was her actions that brought discipline in her her life and not her directly and that through it all, my love for her never followed her actions but always stayed with her.

Her next remark floored me as she grabbed the doll from former's bear and sat it out acrocss the boundary line.

So what you are saying Daddy is that no matter what Mommy's actions are doing your love rag is still sitting on her head and that no matter what my actions do I still have my love rag too. So if we can learn to keep our actions from crossing the boundary we won't get in trouble. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Now, there's a bright little girl. She has not quite gotten that concept completley under control, but then neither have I so we will just learn together.

But.....as I am long winded and got carried away I need to go to sleep. Bible study at 7:00 am and it's 12:43 am. ZZzzzzzzzz.

I'll add more later.

Just know that you and your family are still being prayed for.

Wallace

Whee! Was glad to see your response to Avondale and Leah. You had me worried there but your second post enlightened me to some things. Now I know I gotta color my hair, after reading your first I think I added about another hundred or so gray one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/01/04 03:17 PM
TRUSTINGHIM

Thanks again for another great post! I love the bear, hat, barbie, ruler analogy. What a loving dad you are! I think it's wonderful the way you take the time to REALLY communicate with your children. They are very blessed to have you in their lives.

So if I understood correctly, you feel that one should continue to love their spouse regardless of their actions, however boundaries and consequences do need to come into play. I think this is all the stuff I've been struggling with for so long. Hence, the questions about detachment.

I'm really trying to understand the difference between a love that's always there verses letting anything go. Some where along the line that whole boundary thing got messed up in my thinking. I'm still sorting it out. Maybe I need to get out the bear, barbie, hat and rulers. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You seem to have a deep love for God and others. I find that very admirable and want to be the same way myself. Yet, I obviously need to develop better boundaries and a more assertive nature. Those are my current goals.

Thanks again for taking time out of your busy schedule to write. I've attempted a few of those "late-night" posts. Some of them get pretty entertaining as I grow more tired and incoherrent. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Hope your having a good week, Trusting Him.

WALLACE,

I just breathed a tentative sigh of relief after reading your last post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I guess the tricky part is going to be communicating all of this in a loving yet FIRM way to your girlfriend. If she isn't clear about your expectations in regard to a date, she will most likely get her feathers pretty ruffled. I'll pray for you on that. I really hope she can be understanding and supportive of your decision.

I hope too that your IRS hassles can come to an end soon. You have to be very tired of all of it.

Thanks for answering my questions in regard to my husband's business and my response to him. With God's strength I will continue to practice Plan A. This could go down in history as one of the longest plan A's around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Six years is a long time... but it does seem right. I just also need to add the "ruler" like Trusting Him was posting about. I'm trying to find the balance of kindess,love and boundaries. I guess that's why I'm here on the TOUGH LOVE thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

AVONDALE,

Thanks for the suggestion of writing on the EN's
board. There is a lady who is writing me there that has been very helpful. You're still very much in my thoughts and prayers this week. I'm anxious to hear from you. I hope your doing well.

TO ALL ON THE THREAD,

Thank you to each of you who continue to contribute to my growth and understanding. It seems to be a clear consensus that detachment isn't the answer. I appreciate the various suggestions you have given. I hope all of you are having a good week. God bless!
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/02/04 12:07 AM
Question for all

I had the children Monday evening for my visitation. Tuesday morning DS is feeling bad, upset stomach and small fever. I stay home with him and call my former to let her know that he and I are at home. She wants to know if I'm bringing him to her place of work.

OK, for the longest time now I've done the majority of the driving, dropping off and picking up of the children for visitation...and have no problems with it. But as I get futher into this thing called divorce I sometimes see where I might need to change some things. Either way I explained that I was not planning on going in that direction and asked if she could pick him up at my home.

This she did not like. But that's ok, it takes her all of 10 minutes to run by here from work and my plans have me going in the opposite direction.

Neither here or there...today DS is still sick and stayed at home again, alone. He's 11 but in my opinion a sick child, only 11, running a fever does not need to be at home alone. Heck! Even well he does not need to be home alone, not for an entire day!

When I called this afternoon to check an see how he was doing he told me he had stayed home. I asked if Mom stayed with him. Nope. I asked if she came home for lunch. Nope. I asked if he had asked her if he could go to work with her. Yes, but she said no. OK, so now I'm not feeling really good about this. DS, were you disappointed since Mom would not let you go to work? Yes. Were you disappointed when you were left alone? Yes.

Question....(I PROMISE I'll learn one day to be brief) How does one pose this question to former without LB's, disrespectful judgements or accusations? (or at this point does it even matter?)

What am I wanting to do? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Take a guess. Blow it out of the water, tell her that if it happens again we will be back in court (no, this is not the first time) Has something to do with her not getting sick days and needs to work the full week so she can have a full paycheck (even though parent's make her car payment and insurance payment).

Sugesstions and advice before I call.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/02/04 02:30 AM
Trusting Him

You have a challenging situation on your hands. I would think your former would respond better to you if you were able to keep the mention of courts out of the conversation. I guess the question would be, will she behave any different without some given consequence? Would it be enough of a motivation if she understood how upset you were to have your son left home alone?

I don't blame you for being angry. I would not want my soon to be eleven year old home alone all day, healthy or not.

I will pray for you and your talk with your former. I think it is wise to give it a little time to cool off and think through your upcoming conversation. Also, it always helps to pray about it first. Hope things are resolved without a lot of conflict. Take care.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/02/04 02:47 AM
Trusting - I wonder if there are options that you could suggest to your former when you talk to her about this? Perhaps another relative could stay with your son, or a mutual friend. If you give her other options/ideas for when the kids are home sick, that might help keep LB-ing out of it.

Also, 11 years old is kind of, IMHO, on the borderline of being OK to stay alone. Granted, I think if he’s truly sick (something more than a cold) supervision would be more warranted. But I do know of parents who have kids that age who have no other choices for childcare and HAVE to leave their child of that age while they work. I may have had to do it myself (I can’t remember). If your former went home at lunch to check on him, that would have been great! But even taking a (sick) child to work isn’t a good idea - most co-workers don’t appreciate that because of the spread of germs.

You are right to not use court as a threat. But you should write this (and all other instances of this nature) down and document it with as much detail as possible.

And as far as expecting former to do her share of the driving - you have every right to do that and not be a doormat. Have you already set a precedence now? Perhaps you can just alternate turns driving and picking up somehow . I don’t know what your arrangements are. Again, document that type of thing too.

I hope you were able to get prayed up before you called her! I'm glad you didn't just fly off the handle <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/02/04 05:28 AM
OK... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> first of all I would never threaten (courts), that was just the vent over the situation or the world screaming at tme to treat her as she has treated me in the past. Would I go there, only if I felt my children were being neglected and that is not true.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Leah2be said: You have a challenging situation on your hands. I will pray for you and your talk with your former. Also, it always helps to pray about it first.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes I do.
Thank You!
I did!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Avondale said: I wonder if there are options that you could suggest to your former when you talk to her about this?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually, my son called and before we hung up former asked to talk to me. Her question? Can you check on DS tomorrow if he stays home. I had planned a trip and tomorrow is the only day I can manage it.

Praise God! I never even had to open the subject.

Do you feel that it is wise to leave DS home alone if he is sick. What options are available to us to ensure that he is not alone?

She offered up a list of options much like yours, my only concern was that she failed to mention Daddy.

From there the conversation went well, or as well as one could hope for.

Needless to say, she will call in the morning to let me know if DS is staying home and we will decide from there what to do.

There was a lot more said, and a lot of it positive that I wish I could share but I am finding it hard to express my thoughts on them right now.

Doormat? I think I was for a long time and in the last several months have lessened that attitude or feeling. Things are looking brighter.

All it all it went quite well. I'll share more as I figure out how to type an almost hour conversation with her doing most of the talking.

Second question?

During the course of the converstion she offered that her and BF are now broken up... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , OK...but why tell me.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/02/04 12:13 PM
Hi all!

Trusting: You offered up a very good prayer. Once again, I offer that prayer is indeed helpful until the situation indangers the stability of one's family, sanity, and health. Both parties have to be on the same page. It's not just left up the BS.

Wallace: Please someone, give me some smelling sauce. I'm laid out on the floor and I cannot get up. Wallace, Wallace, Wallace, slow down pal. Please take little steps to the altar. Don't be push and shrove by the your finacee.

Avondale: Stay strong.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/02/04 11:09 PM
Hi All,

Well I had a post going but somehow lost it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Leah...

I only lose part of my mind duriong the Holiday season. I'll get it back, as soon as the Holidays pass.

It was once my favorite time of the year, and ever since my "D", they have become a time that I really don't look forward to.

Hopefully some of what I posted concerning a "H", and his business/family relationship put some things into perspective based on my past history.

Six years is a long time to be in a Plan A. mode... but just maybe in time he will snap out of it and see what he really has going for him.

I would stay the course as long as it doesn't start getting worse, and try to build from there.

Trusting Him...

I got a good laugh when you told me how many white hairs you got. If it keeps up... you may have to get the "Just for Men" hair dye out. Let's hope you won't need that.

Concerning you son, and being left home while he is sick. I have to ditto what avondale stated as well.

Hopefully you can sit down with your former and discuss a reasonable set of standards when it comes to situations such as what you have going.

I would only use the Courts as a last resort, if you in fact cannot come up with a situation that both you and your former can come to terms with.

avondale...

What's the status as far as the "D", being finalized?

Hang in there... I know it gets rough at this point... knowing that your worse fears have come true. But, the sun will still shine another day... and you of all people will be able to bounce back as move forward.

Say a nice long prayer, and let the Lord lead you way on this one.

Petvet...

You need some smelling salts? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I know... it is crazy, huh?

Trust me! I'm not going to get "M", unless I know in my mind that I am in fact ready. I haven't set any date, just a possibility of walking down the aisle sometime this coming summer. Nothing however is written in stone... not yet anyway.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/03/04 05:05 AM
Hey all,

I hope everyone had a wonderful holiday. PA had beautiful weather while here in CA, the snow level was down to 1,500 feet. I had a friend living at the base of the mountains and they had 10 inches!! When it starts to snow in CA, it will be time for me to move to Florida. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Leah2Be

Hope your family was together during the holidays. How is everything going?

My online store will be a 'fashion jewelry' store and I'll let all of you know when it is up and running. I didn't realize how much work it includes! It would have been easier to open a brick & mortar store. I like to stay busy but I've become overwhelmed.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I'm willing to listen to other perspectives. I sincerely do want to be reasonable and respectful in my relationship with my H. I'm trying to understand what is continuously going wrong between us. ANY THOUGHTS OR IDEAS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. Thanks so much! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It seems that you have done all that can be done as far as you being reasonable and respectful. You've got to realize that it is not you and you cannot take that responsibility upon yourself or you will go mad!

I walked around on egg shells trying not to upset my 'X' and basically became a doormat. Any questions to him were met with the same, "you're trying to control me" When he got tired of me questioning him, he left! Only then did I realize how much of myself I had given up!

So, take care of you.

Avondale

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How often do you who are already divorced think about the "date" of your finalization? If so, do you think of the date you signed the papers or the date it was filed in court? Arrgh! (end of vent) </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As you know, I had to wait 6 months and 1 day before I finalized my divorce. For me, I think the worst is remembering the anniversary date. Up until the time of finalization I hoped God would somehow intervene and when that didn't happen I had to believe it was for my good. So, today the pain is not as intense, but still there to some degree. I have stopped praying that God would restore my marriage. It also didn't help that we never spoke the entire time. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Trusting Him

You are amazing! I so enjoy your posts. Sometimes you just wonder what WS wants in their lives.

Glad to hear your vision is good. Like Leah2be, My contacts are like that, one near and one far! Your brain does catch up eventually.

Petvet

I guess there will be a wedding between you and Wallace yet.

Glad everything is going well with your custody as in not hearing anything. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace

You wait until I'm gone to drop your bombshell.

The ladies here will have to take lessons from your gf. "how to wear a man down in 10 days" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

So, what I'm hearing is that you are rolling over, true?

Ditto, Avondale!!

Everyone else, Hello and post soon.

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/03/04 12:34 PM
Hi all!

Wallace: Ha ha ha! You are right. Salt not sauce. But the sauce part still pertains to you like in hot sauce because your GF is blowing your mind like hot sauce. Relady was right. What did she do to wear you down? Come on, tell the truth! We know women have an ace card that leave men helpless. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Relady: I guess you better get your online jewelry business going soon for a couple of heavy diamond purchases. Oh, have you heard about the influx of folks moving from California to Mexico because of the cheap real estate?

Hope all is well everyone.

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/06/04 01:54 PM
RELADY,

How nice to hear from you! It sounds as if you're very busy with your newest project. I'm sure that is a major undertaking. Are you hoping to have your on-line store open before Christmas? It would be nice to gain some sales that way, although it sounds as if it would be challenging to pull it all together by then. I hope it becomes less over whelming with time and becomes a source of joy to you.

When you write about your situation, it rings all too familiar for me. Just this morning my H said one of the reasons he avoids being with me sexually is that I'm manipulative and controlling. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Most family and friends who know us would find that very laughable as they view H as a total control freak and a "slick Willy" to boot.

Walking on eggshells is something I've done for too long. I realize I have no where to go but up at this juncture. I'm going to continue to "speak the truth in love" and let the chips fall where they may. It seems no matter how hard I try or what I try it will never be good enough for H. He's angry or disappointed with me the majority of the time, so why not just be me?

When you wrote that you lost a lot of yourself in your marriage, I can so relate. I've spent the last sixteen years desperately trying to earn H's approval. Somewhere along the line, I'm afraid I've lost me too.

I'm working diligently on "getting me back". After years of rejection and being made to feel so little a person, it is challenging to find your footing again. But with God's help, I want to become a confident, Godly lady. Thanks for your encouragement along the way!

Avondale,

Many thoughts of you throughout the weekend. Have you received final notification? Are you doing okay? I'm so looking forward to this all being behind you. I want you to be able to move forward towards a happier future. I'm still praying... ((((Avondale))))

Trusting Him.

I'm so glad your conversation with your wife went well. That's a great answer to prayer. It's interesting that she mentioned her breakup to you and that she spoke to you for an hour. I'm sure that did give you much to think about.

Just be careful not to read too much into it or let your hopes get too high. I know I frequently have to remind myself of that with my H. He'll say or do something encouraging, and then before I know it, I let myself think all kinds of happy thoughts. But sooner or later a different reality quickly presents itself, leaving me feeling pretty deflated.

I don't want to rain on your parade, I just see myself in you and don't want you to be hurt. Not to ever take your hope away, because there is always hope in God. He does have a great plan for your life and it might one day include your former being with you. I hope that for you but if not that, I'm confident it will be something even better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Let us know how you're doing when you can. We all enjoy hearing from you. Don't worry about being too long, I always enjoy reading your posts.

Hi Petvet and Wallace,

Hope both of you men "in love" are doing well. It must be nice having someone to share the holidays with. Keep looking up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


Me

I'm staying very busy with birthdays (Two of my girls) and Christmas and all the many activities that go along with both. Tonite I'll be having both sets of grandparents over for a big birthday dinner. Tomorrow is YD Christmas program. Thursday is middle D's Christmas band concert. Saturday the youth group are coming over for the main part of a progressive dinner.

Then during the days, I'm doing my usual volunteer work at the girls schools, working in the office and computer class and mentoring. We also have some added Christmas activities. So that is what I'm up too.

What I'm feeling... trying to focus on the Christ of Christmas rather than the loneliness that sometimes tugs at my heart. I'm trying to find ways to deal with H's ongoing rejection of me. That is my biggest challenge. How does one get past rejection when it is staring you in the face daily? Big dilema, but I keep trying to press forward with the Hope of God and the many blessings in my life. It's all about perspective isn't it? Take care and love to all of you!

<small>[ December 06, 2004, 07:55 AM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/06/04 10:15 PM
Hi All,

Well guess what? My computer is still acting up.

I changed everything on it except the proceesor, and video card... so I'm at a loss at this point.

relady...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

You wait until I'm gone to drop your bombshell.

The ladies here will have to take lessons from your gf. "how to wear a man down in 10 days" [Big Grin]

So, what I'm hearing is that you are rolling over, true?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL... I didn't wait to drop the bombshell why you were gone on purpose. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I just decided to throw the towel in and go with the flow.

It "DID" however take her longer than 10 days... more like 2 years. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

How's your online business going so far. My brother is in the wholesale business for jewelry... he reps a number of diamond suppliers. He might be a good contact for you... to get pricing, and possibly compare it to what you have going. I'm sure you will do well in it.

Are you still involved in the Real Estate end of business as well?

Glad to hear that you enjoyed your trip... I'm thinking about buying a summer home in FLorida. I have seen enough years of snow... I like the warmth and that wonderful sunshine that gors with it.

Petvet...

Hehehe... I am indeed in the hot sauce... right up to my eye balls in it. LOL

How did she wear me down? She had a very good game plan... and she stuck with it... she never waivered from it. Now that she knows I have succumbed to the madness for the most part... she's coming in for the kill... she's looking at new houses for us to move into, after we get "M". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Leah...

Wow!!! I got dizzy just reading all the things you have going on. That's good though... it keeps your mind from dwelling on negative things. I did pretty much the same thing... I always had something going on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
How does one get past rejection when it is staring you in the face daily?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By looking past it... and staying busy... just like your doing. As time goes on, you will find yourself building an inner peace that will help you get past the rejection. Through the grace of the Lord, and doing just what your doing... you will find that you will overcome the rejection in time. It's a major hurdle to get past... but with a lot of work and patience... you will find yourself working past it in time.

Rejection... is just as bad as the actual "A" IMHO... at least it was for me.

avondale... Trusting Him... and everyone else....

Hope you are all doing well. avondale, let us know how you made out when you get a chance.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/06/04 10:43 PM
Relady - It was great hearing from you. Glad you got back in time to speak to Wallace, cuz I’m not sure Leah and I can keep these guys out of the Loveboat, LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Will you have a store on Ebay or stand-alone? What type of jewelry - things made by you/friends, or resales of more well-known brands?

Petvet - I think you’re not telling us all there is to tell about your g/f. Are you scared of the girls on this thread? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Leah - Thanks for thinking/praying for me. It is probably good that you have other things to keep you busy during the holidays. I wonder, does your H ever give you big gifts to make up for his lack of attention? Have you thought out (like, really thought out - in writing, perhaps) a plan on how to continue to live with your H when the rejection continues?

Trusting - I wonder if your former is only giving you food for thought. Just pray about it. I’ll be honest, women (even Christian ones like us) know how to work guys. Men have lust, but women know how to manipulate it - it’s part of the fall of man! None of us want you to get hurt. Just tuck that bit of info away for now. How are your kids doing?

Wallace - When you say to your g/f “a possibility of getting married this summer” I can GUARANTEE you all she’s hearing is “married this summer”. It’s not a poor reflection on her, this is just the way a lot of women (and some men) are. I think we’ve had this conversation before, haven’t we?

Me - Well, I signed the divorce papers today. I didn’t like that they said “permanent disolution” of the marriage but I understand that’s standard. I am now working on changing my will, my banking accounts, etc. I tell ya, I never realized how much OTHER stuff there was which was tied up into this. And yet, I still can’t get it out of my head that this is not permanent. I honestly don’t know if I’m in denial or just still have hope. Hope isn’t a bad thing...and my hope is in the Lord, not in my H or his actions. I cannot bring myself to take off my wedding & engagement rings. Is there any "rule" that I have to keep them off?

Hello to anyone else I missed <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ December 06, 2004, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/07/04 09:59 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Avondale said: Well, I signed the divorce papers today. I didn’t like that they said “permanent disolution” of the marriage but I understand that’s standard.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think signing the papers was the hardest for me. From tht point forward, even in the midst of other things I have progressively moved forward. Not always as fast as I desired, but usually forward.

"permanet disolution" "hereby dissolved" and of course, the standard There exist bewteen us such complete and irrevocable imcompatibility of temperament tht we can no longer live together as husband and wife. I have lost all love for my husband. Futher attempts at reconciliation are futile and not in the best intrest of the parties (wife) Opps! Yes, I made them change it so that it only stated that it was not in her intrest. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />


I feel the same way, and I too was told that it was pretty much standard. Standard...maybe one day I'll learn what standard is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Avondale said: And yet, I still can’t get it out of my head that this is not permanent. I honestly don’t know if I’m in denial or just still have hope. Hope isn’t a bad thing...and my hope is in the Lord, not in my H or his actions.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Permanet...I guess with time we may realize that. Denial or hope is a question I ask myself often, trying to figure out which one it is. Depending on my current mood it sways from on to the other. But this I do know. My hope is in God and regardless of what my former chooses to do I know I have a clean and clear heart toward our marraige. There is nothing that I would not have done to salvage or restore and rebuild a commitment to a new relationship. And the funny thing is, my former knows that and still chose to walk, or maybe run.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Avondale said: I cannot bring myself to take off my wedding & engagement rings. Is there any "rule" that I have to keep them off?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My former had hers off the day after I moved out, 3 months before the divorce was final.

But that is only a decision that you can make. There is one lady who wnet through the DivorceCare class who still wears her rings. Not for her husband but for what she believes in. And she also says that she intends to keep them there until she decides it is time to date, something about a ring that keeps others from attempting to get to close.

My prayers are with you as you go through this and I pray that God will give you the comfort and encouragement that you need when you need it. He did tell us that He has a hope, a plan and a furture for us so keep looking forward to that future.

God Bless Ya
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/07/04 10:21 PM
Leah2be

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Leah2be said: If your wife had ever confronted you with her desire to have you home more, would you have done things differently? I know you would now knowing what you know, but how would you have responded then?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now that is a question I can answer. In 1998 my wife said "You must get a job that allows you to be in town or home more often."

I went to my boss and told her what my wife had said. Within 3 months my company relocated me to an area where I could be home most every night. I went from spending every other week out of town to maybe only having to stay away once or twice a month.

I at that time made a concentrated effort to be home as early as possible, help with clothes, dinner, cleaning and the children. Even today I remember the compliments she used to give me for being so helpful around the house.

The children and I began to spend some time together, a fault on my part as my Dad never spent time with us and I was actually scared to learn to play. My childhood had taught me that a Father and husband was to work.

To make that shorter just read what Wallace wrote. But from 1998 onward I strived, tried and worked. I even began individual counsleing because of the problems wife stated that I had. Through counseling and on her words to the counselor we made many promising changes in me and my actions.

I can say that somewhere around mid 2001, not seeing any help or participation on her part that I began that emotional detachment and withdrew. This could be blamed on each of us in that terrible I did because you did and it just spirals downward. Needless to say I did make some wrong decisions.

Until mid 2002 when everything hit the fan. In her attempts to defend her friendship with this OM she went all the way back to 1998. Ouch...was he in the picture then? Who knows.

All I know is that I tired to meet her every need much like you and Avondale and quite possibly the rest who post here on "Tough Love" during those years with never a thought of leaving, divorcing or of finding another woman. And you know where I am today.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/08/04 12:25 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: Sweetheart, you must try to move away from the mindset of "what was", that was then and this is now. I realize that is a tough statement, but you are going to put yourself in a depressive situation. Don't get too technical about permanent or standard. The bottom line is that your former did not want the marriage. I read over my D decree many times as well and was mad about this and mad about that, but the bottom line as far as anyone is concern is that your marriage is over. Your former must understand that it is not business as usual going forward. As far as the ring is concern, what kind of message are you trying to convay? I know it is tough, but you must survive and you will survive.

Wallace: Your single days are over pal. Your GF has you tied up like a steer at a rodeo.

Trusting: I read on somewhere on Marriagebuilders a couple of years ago that the holidays puts the most pressure on a faultering marriage than any other time. Which is why there are a slew of divorce filings after the new year.

Me: No wedding plans. Have to get annulment first. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/08/04 07:35 PM
Avondale,

It's always good to have hope in God. As far as whether it's "denial or hope", that is a question I ask myself too. Sometimes the line can get a bit blurry. There are days I think it's time to just totally give it up. Other times I feel this quiet certainty that somehow God is going to put this marriage back together.

I know that God is perfectly capable of working a miracle in our marriage. But the uncertain part involves free-will and my husband's choices. Only God knows what the future holds for all of us. Meanwhile, I just want to stay on the right path and make the wisest choices possible.

I think wearing your wedding ring is strictly a personal choice of where you are. For some people, that ring comes off right away. I know others who like to wear it for awhile.

My H has never liked wearing his wedding ring. Surprise,surprise... In fact he wore it for the first few years of marriage and then declared it "uncomfortable" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
He then "lost" it, and I purchased him a new one. He only wore it for a couple of months when we were separated and I was thinking "divorce". Then shortly after we got back together, he took it off and hasn't worn it for over two years now. I can't help think it's an indication of where his heart is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Just keep your thoughts on God and keep moving forward. He'll direct your every step, both in the big and little decisions along life's way. Hugs to you Avondale.

Hi Trusting and Others,

Have to run now, but will post you all later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/08/04 08:00 PM
Hey all,

Hope all is going as well as expected with each of you.

Avondale

If you recall, I had the same problem about my rings. There will always be the 'well meaning' friend that will say, "you're not married to him anymore, why are you wearing the ring?" For those you will have to brace yourself or have a quick answer.

When I go out, I wear the engagement ring because I actually like it!! I picked it out and it's mine! On my right hand though! Wouldn't want to prevent anyone from saying hello!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You'll know when the time is right, and should you continue to wear it, so what? You pretty much develope a 'thick skin' when you know God is backing you up.

I started on Ebay and will probably use it as somewhat of a launching pad. It will be a stand alone store.

What should we do about our brother, Wallace?

Wallace

What in the world should we do with you??

Haven't you realized by now that you are not in control of the date? Your possibles, maybes, when it's right, etc. don't mean a thing to your GF! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my friend... I did buy my G/F an engagement ring, and once this IRS stuff is finished, we are going to set a date to get "M".

I don't remember proposing to her... we were in a jewelry store, and it just kind of happened </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I went back to read, How did I miss this!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Please ask her for me what she uses!! We need to know, can I get it on Ebay??

IMHO, You are being so manipulated and have been since the beginning and M with her will not be a good idea! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How's your online business going so far. My brother is in the wholesale business for jewelry... he reps a number of diamond suppliers. He might be a good contact for you... to get pricing, and possibly compare it to what you have going. I'm sure you will do well in it.

Are you still involved in the Real Estate end of business as well?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Real Estate is my life, my online is more of a hobbie. It will be a costume jewelry store and later I will add other accessories. The closest thing to diamonds will be rhinestones and crystal. I hope to have it up soon. It's alot of work, but I'll be finished with school next week which will give me more time.

It will be all about the Glitz and Glitter!! which I love!

Trusting Him

As for your W leaving your son alone at age 11, I'm sure he must be pretty mature, however; the authorities say age 13 is the age a child can be left alone. And if he ever has to dial 911 for any reason, there could be a real problem with child services.

An associate left her 10 year old daughter home ill and there was a fire next door and she had to be evaculated, guess to where? Child Services. So please be careful with that.

Petvet

How is everything going with custody?

Do you also handle 'incorporating' as a CPA? I'm thinking of incorporating by the first of the year. I'm not sure if I should do it in Nevada, Delaware or here in California.

Leah2be

At this point, it doesn't seem that your H cares whether you want him home or not. Have you tried spending time with him at work?

Since he has to be there, just pack up and be there with him, file papers, make it easier for him.

I'm not saying that is the answer, but it is worth a try, what do you think?

When my H stayed late at work because of traffic, I offered to meet him, have dinner while he waited. Offered to drive him to and from work to use the carpool lane.

He always had a reason why none of it was a good idea!!

Hello, to eveyone else.

relady
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/08/04 11:56 PM
Hi All,

Well I'm still working on getting my computer back up. My new power supply died, and took the hard drive with it. I was working on it last night and I got most of it going... but still have a ways to go.

avondale...

I understand how you feel... and we are here to try to help you through the emotions your now feeling.

I know that your probably going through a fast amount of different emotions at any given time or moment.

In regards to your wedding ring. IMHO... I wouldn't concern yourself with when to take it off. There is no hurry to do that, and I would just deal with it when you feel your ready to deal with it... if ever.

Trusting Him...

relady brings up a very good point about the age of your child. In most States... 13 yrs. of age is the age when they can be left alone with having to deal with Social Services showing up on your door step.

Leah...

It has to be very frustrating to live in a "M" that has so many frustrating moments involved in it.

How many years do you have... until your children are of legal age?

The reason I ask... is can you keep it together that long... and if not... have you come to a decision on when you may want to pull the plug if things don't start getting better?

Petvet...

LOL... your post cracked me up! The sad part about it... is it's true! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


relady...


Ohhhhhh!!!! I'm in control of the date we decide to get "M"! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

To answer your question about what she's using... I don't know, but it's working... LOL

Make no mistake relady... if I don't think I'm ready to go through with this, and/or I don't believe it will work... I just won't get "M". If she wants to walk away from the relationship at that point... she can. You see... I'm past the head over heels falling in love stuff. That ended when my "M" ended. I wouldn't think twice about ending a relationship over the situation that I find myself in. yes it's a hardcore way to look at it... but I no longer believe in living happily ever after anymore.

I'm all ears though about any advice anyone wants to offer.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/09/04 01:00 AM
Wallace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told her for the last time... get rid of this guy or I'm gone... it was my final word on it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm still looking at this whole thing... and I'm not so sure what I see is to my liking.

I'm looking at this one real hard... it's a day by day process... and so far... I'm not so sure I like what I'm seeing.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my friend... I did buy my G/F an engagement ring, and once this IRS stuff is finished, we are going to set a date to get "M".

I don't remember proposing to her... we were in a jewelry store, and it just kind of happened </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ohhhhhh!!!! I'm in control of the date we decide to get "M </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just a little history, I couldn't find the beginning, but I'm sure it's there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

If you don't remember proposing, how would you remember getting married?

Have you been truthful with yourself or are you just caving in to pressure? You have got to ask yourself this question before you move forward.

Is she the one that God has for you? Ask Him prayerfully and honestly if you have the nerve and if you are sure He said yes, you will have no more words from me! I can argue with everyone but God! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'll have to let your girlfriend know that she doesn't have to wait on clearing up your IRS problem. You just need to have a 'pre nup' and that takes care of them. I did it!! Mine specifically named tax liabilities!! So There! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

(((relady)))
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/09/04 01:47 AM
Hi again all,

I was working on my computer, and decided to try to see if it would hold up and low and behold I decided to come to visit this site... imagine that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

relady...

Thank you for the history lesson... every once in awhile a need a good crack in the head, to bring me to my senses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

To tell you the truth relady... I have prayed on it, as well as many, many other things.

You know what the Lord has put into my head?

That my first "M" was in fact the one and the only... that in fact there will be no other "M".

The Lord chose my wife for me, and she chose to follow another path (free will, I guess).

The question that I put to the Lord was, "If in fact she was to be my one and only... why did she get taken away?"

I'm still waiting for an answer on that one... so far it's been dead air space on that question.

Hey! you are going to let us know when you get your Store up and running, right?

I would like to check it out when you have it up and runnning, so let us know when you get it going and I'll check it out.

I have a ton of stuff that I have been thinking about putting up on Ebay. Time... of course is a major issue for me at the moment... but I still want to pursue it.

I'm still looking for any input you can throw my way, and if anyone else has anything they would like to throw in there... feel free to do so.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/09/04 07:43 PM
Hey All,

Hope you're having a good week. The weekend is almost here.

Wallace


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That my first "M" was in fact the one and the only... that in fact there will be no other "M".

The Lord chose my wife for me, and she chose to follow another path (free will, I guess).
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whhhhoooooaaaaa Hooorrrssseeyyyy!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I have to park my rocking horse and use all my icons for this one!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


So, I'll ask again, "What in the world are you doing?" You've never said this before, although we all knew things just weren't quite right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

This is probably the reason you and your G are not on the same wavelength.

What makes you think you can succeed when God has clearly told you something else?

Still haven't learned yet, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

God never changes His mind. Yes, your former has 'free will' however, if she should ever allow the Lord to get to her heart, it's all over. He can 'turn the hearts of kings' and that means queens too! Remember Jonah?

Also, God is a jealous God. If she became your god as my X became to me, then they will eventually be moved out of your life. Your relationship with Him is first and foremost.

So my friend, I suggest you step out of the 'fog' that is reserved for 'WS' and get your money back for that ring! IMHO <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/09/04 10:17 PM
Wallace - I'm applauding Relady cuz she said everything I was thinking! Where in your heart did that quote come from, and why did it take you so long to write it out? Have you said anything in that vein to your g/f?? Why enter into a covenant relationship (i.e., marriage vows with g/f) when you are still "not over" your first marriage? I don't think there is anything wrong with what you said about your first marriage, either. But don't make things worse by promising yourself (even vaguely) to another woman while you are still entertaining thoughts of that nature about your first marriage. You still need healing (p.s. all this was said in love) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/11/04 01:43 AM
Hey everyone,

Well the weekend is here, and I am looking forward to just relaxing, before starting my
X-mas shopping.

relady and avondale...

Correct me if I'm wrong... but I'm getting the impression that based on my last couple of posts... you may in fact think that I want to hold out for my exW, or something like that?

If in fact that is the case, let me set the record straight. I would never want to go back to my exW under any circumstances. The damage she dealt out to myself and my children was something you can never come back from. I can forgive her for what she has done (and sometimes I wonder if in fact I really ever have), but I could never put myself or my kids in that position ever again.

I'm what you call, "Snake Bit"!

You venture into an area and get bitten (1st marriage), so the question you ask yourself... do I really want to venture back into that area again (2nd marriage)? I'm not really sure I do.

So to summarize... What God told me still stands.
However, I don't want my old "M" or exW, and I highly doubt I will marry my G/F. The reason being is... she is to pushy about the whole thing... and to me... that's a negative. the more she pushes for "M", the more I pull away.

I may have bought her a wedding ring... that doesn't mean I'm going follow through with it.

Am I leading her on? No, I'm not. She takes two steps foward, and then she blows it and takes five steps back... by being pushing, and putting out ultimatums. That doesn't work with me.

relady...

Was my exW my god? No she wasn't... I never put her that high on the pedestal... in fact the more stunts she pulled... the further away I pulled away from her.

avondale...

Have I ever told my G/F what I told all of you? No, I never have... I see no reason at this point to relay that type of info to her. She knows where I stand about all of this.

Personally... when the time comes for us to decide on a time to get "M". If I don't like it, and we can't come to a time that is suitable for both of us... I'll probably walk away from this relationship.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/12/04 11:48 AM
Wallace - I can’t speak for Relady , but I didn’t think you were holding out for your ExW, although some on MB and some well-respected theologians do take that stance, and I respect that. But Relady and I do agree that you don’t seem “ready” to get married again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I may have bought her a wedding ring... that doesn't mean I'm going follow through with it. Am I leading her on? No, I'm not. She takes two steps foward, and then she blows it and takes five steps back... by being pushing, and putting out ultimatums. That doesn't work with me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wallace, that sounds sooooo unhealthy for BOTH of you. So what are you going to do? Does she know you bought a ring already? Can you get your money back on it, or are these empty threats to her about calling it off? Read what you wrote above. Is that the way you want to spend the rest of your life?

Leah - Haven't heard from you in a while, are things OK? I hope it's just the busyness of the holidays. Please let us hear from you <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Trusting - How are you? Do you get your kids for Christmas?

Wow, we're on page 150.... Petvet , did you ever imagine that???

<small>[ December 12, 2004, 05:51 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/13/04 10:43 PM
Hi All,

We are on page 150? Who would of thought?

The drama still continues. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

avondale...

It might be a little tough to get the ring back from my G/F at the moment... she is wearing it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Your right about one thing for sure... I'm not ready to get "M" at this point in time. My G/F knows it... everyone knows it.

At the moment... it goes from a healthy relationship to an unhealty relationship. This always happens when she chimes in and wants to step up the time to go and get "M". She is persistent.

Well I hope everyone had a good weekend. I'm getting ready to go out and brave the crowds and try to get some X-mas shopping done. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/14/04 04:23 AM
Hey all,

I hope your weekend was good and that you have big plans for the Holidays.

Wallace

It never crossed my mind that you wanted your X back. What did cross my mind however, is the fact that you are totally ignoring what you have clearly heard God tell you.

Now, what I would like to know is how do you expect to have a good marriage when:

1. You're not listening to God although He is clearly speaking to you?

2. You give a ring to someone you have no intentions of marrying and she is also in agreement with you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not ready to get "M" at this point in time. My G/F knows it </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it goes from a healthy relationship to an unhealty relationship </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you type all this with a 'straight key' if you know what I mean. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

Did we run everyone away?

relady
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/14/04 04:52 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Avondale asked: How are you? Do you get your kids for Christmas?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Doing fine here. Yes, I do have the children for Christmas. I pick them up this Friday and they go back to Mom sometime on the 25th. Nothing grand planned as they know where I sit with money... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> not much left over.

But they are all glad to be with me. Their Christmas list for me was well within reason, actually it was way within reason.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Petvet said: No wedding plans. Have to get annulment first. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Amen! Now just give me some advice on how to get a lady to quit chasing. Somehow a friend's friend has set her sights on something unatainable, she just hasn't figured that out yet.

What have I done? </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very plainly stated "I am not intrested in any relationship"</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Gave her a copy of He's Just Not That Into You: The No-Excuses Truth to Understanding Guys </font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you say Plan B, or going dark as some say</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And now I've had to become somewhat rude</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
and she's still there. Not to mention that the latest rumor is that I have a woman staying with me at my house and that she drives a black van.

The black van belongs to me. To my knowledge there are only two people who know where I live. One is the guy I help teach the DivorceCare Class and the other is no other than the lady mentioned above. Another friend and I help her move into an apratment and we had to come by my house to get the truck.

Please tell me that this woman is not driving by my house late at night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> That's scary!

Wallace

Glad to hear that you have everything under control. It's always good to have that upper hand. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />


Me

Moving forward I think. Last time I ws here we had the sick child at home alone. Just me, I feel that an eleven year old eunning a fever does not need to be home alone, and definately not when I am available to care for him in situations like that. There is a HUGE difference between husband and wife and Mother and Father.

But the conversation wnet rather well. I expressed my concern as mentioned before and was told;

</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess this is your way of saying I'm a bad mother</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I feel all you do is sit over there and think up ways of how I'm a bad mother</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would never leave them alone when I go out on a date</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The divorce was my choice and I feel I have to live with the consequences</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You told those people I had affairs</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
In a nutshell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I replied;

No, I'm just concerned as a father when I'm told that our sick child is at home alone when I'm available to keep him. I do not nor have I ever thought that you are a bad mother. I wish there was someway I could convince you otherwise bit I can assure you that I do not just sit here thinking of ways that you are a bad mother.

I do not recall ever saying anything to you about dating other than last September when I respectfully asked that you not include our children in that scene so soon.

Some consequences yes, but not when it comes to the well being of our children. As I said before, please call me if you need help when any of the children are sick.

Affairs? I have not mentioned that to anyone for quite some time. That was past and I have forgiven you and I pray that you know that.

That about sums up where we are, other than the fact that her letters to BF were torn up and thrown away. Pictures removed from bedroom. Anti-depressent's uped from 20mg to 40mg and they were prescribed for situational depression over 2 years ago.

Oh! and I almost forgot. Tonight at supper I am informed by OD that I am free to find a GF. Dear, where did that come from. Oh! I was reading my Bible the other night and it said that the person that did not want the divorce will not be living in sin should they have another marriage. But that the one who asked for the divorce without Biblical reasons was gui;ty of sin and should that person remarry they would be commiting adultery. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Ouch! A lot from the OD and I have no idea where that came from. We turned our dinner conversation into a lesson on God's forgiveness when one confesses to God, repents from their sinful ways and begins to persue a new relationship with Him.

P.S. Relady...sorry, I might be getting alittle slow in my old age but it will take a tad bit more to run me away.

Praying that everyone will have a wonderful Hliday Season!

<small>[ December 13, 2004, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: Trusting Him ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/14/04 11:33 PM
Hey everyone,

Well I made it through the round of Christmas shopping. G/F and I went together after having dinner together. We are going to hit it again tomorrow night as well... still have plenty to get caught up on.

relady...

O.K., your going to have to break out the history lesson for this one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
quote by relady:

You give a ring to someone you have no intentions of marrying and she is also in agreement with you?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is where I need the history lesson. I don't recall saying that I had no intentions of never marrying my G/F. I think I said that I'm not ready to get married to her right at this moment. That I needed more time to take care of all the baggage that I still have flying around.

I did in fact, say that I doubt that I will marry her... so I can see where you may have come up with I will never marry her.

If anyone can find that one statement... relady, you and avondale can... that's if I in fact said that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I hear what God is saying to me... and it would take a miracle from him to allow what he is saying to me to truly happen.

Trusting Him...

Glad to hear that you get to see your children for Christmas. I've never not had my kids around on Christmas... I don't think I would know how to act if I didn't.

You've got a woman stalking you so to speak after you told her in so many words to hit the road?

Did I read that right? If I did... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

What are you going to do? It doesn't sound like she takes a hint very well.

Well I hope everyone is doing well. Leah... if you get time... let us know how your making out.

Well back to X-mas shopping tonight again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ December 14, 2004, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/15/04 10:04 AM
Trusting - Sounds like you have taken all the appropriate actions regarding your non-existant G/F. Next thing you know, you’ll be getting phone calls where the caller hangs up after you answer. As for people knowing where you live, I assume you’re in the phone book, or a church directory, or perhaps your personal information was printed on a Divorce Care class handout, or something. I hope she doesn’t get more pro-active with her stalking (cuz that’s what it is). Have you thought about having your mutual friend tell her to “beat it”?

Wallace - You said: "If anyone can find that one statement... relady, you and avondale can... that's if I in fact said that." I accept that challenge! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Here’s what I found just on this one page of the thread:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm still looking at this whole thing... and I'm not so sure what I see is to my liking.

That my first "M" was in fact the one and the only... that in fact there will be no other "M".

I highly doubt I will marry my G/F.

I may have bought her a wedding ring... that doesn't mean I'm going follow through with it.

She takes two steps foward, and then she blows it and takes five steps back... by being pushing, and putting out ultimatums. That doesn't work with me

...it goes from a healthy relationship to an unhealty relationship </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I bet if we looked up the previous pages for this thread over the last year we could find quite a few others. And we could probably find the one specific statement that said you didn’t plan on marrying....but I am drawing that same conclusion based on your regular references and inferences to the subject of NOT getting married. So if I'm wrong, I'm sorry <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> There's just a lot of negative protests coming from your corner!

Relady - you have mail in your hotmail account. It’s not about TL

Leah - you also have mail in your yahoo account.

Petvet - what did you get your G/F for Christmas? Please say it’s not an engagement ring! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/15/04 12:52 PM
Hi all!

Trusting: This is how you get rid of a heavy pursuing lover. Tell her, "I am not into you, and will never be into you. Please leave me alone." Tough but efficient. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />


Wallace: Oh Boy! I don't know what to say. I know how to get you to think clearly. Don't do anything with GF that gets your hormones kicking. I bet if your hormones were not involve you may be able to see more clearly. I am not making any assumptions but just know how the hormones can cloud one's judgement.

Avondale: I need to tell you something funny about the ring thing after divorce. My parents have been divorced since I was four or five years old. Whenever my parents and I get together, my dad always wears his wedding band. Keep in mind that my dad has never remarried. I personally think it's a joke. As a matter of fact, I asked him about it a number of years ago, and he responded that it was his ring and he can wear it if he choses. After that statement, I left it alone. Please don't be like my dad.

Relady: If I were you, I would see how my jewelry business go before I incorporate. Unless there are some liability issues, you may want to stay a sole proprietorship status. Selling your jewelry over Ebay was a good idea. You are one SMART cookie. You are always on it.

Me: I am not getting engaged anytime soon. I am not buying any hardware for Christmas.

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/16/04 01:36 AM
Hey everyone,

I'm taking a break from Christmas shopping tonight. I did all of my Christmas cards instead.

avondale...

Where is my email? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Your right! I am posting a lot of negative protests over getting "M".

No need to say your sorry about anything... you and relady are right about me not wanting to get "M", at least for right now. I'm just trying to point out the "I have no intentions of getting married part".

I'm running around in a daze over this as all of you can very well tell. I think Trusting Him said it best... " It's good to see you have everything under control, it's always nice to have the upper hand"... LOL... yea right... I'm in control of this situation... LOL.
I'm paraphrasing what Trusting Him said, but I had a good chuckle when I read that. That was a good one Trusting Him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

So I admit... I'm hearing what God is saying... I'm just having trouble believing that it could or would ever happen.

Petvet...

No hardware for Christmas? Come on now... don't let me sit here and take all of the heat. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

No news is good news, so keep up the good work.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/16/04 03:37 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As stated by Wallace:

I'm running around in a daze over this as all of you can very well tell. I think Trusting Him said it best... " It's good to see you have everything under control, it's always nice to have the upper hand"... LOL... yea right... I'm in control of this situation... LOL.
I'm paraphrasing what Trusting Him said, but I had a good chuckle when I read that. That was a good one Trusting Him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

So I admit... I'm hearing what God is saying... I'm just having trouble believing that it could or would ever happen.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm just having trouble believing that it could or would ever happen....

That comment hit me rather hard, and considering that I had just finished watching A Vow To Cherish on television and spent most of the show <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . Well...let's just say that with God anything is possible, we just tend to want to rush him.

I have the same thoughts and feelings but I sure question them at times. Does that indicate a lack of faith?

So............

I had a LOT of other grandious thoughts to share but just as I was beginning to post earlier DS called to talk. Normally we spend 15 to 20 minutes on the phone, say our prayers and off to sleep he goes. Tonight after talking for 20 or so minutes I asked if he wanted to say his prayers.

Not right now Daddy.

So on to other things to say. He watched Pimp My Ride and told me all about the cars that were being PIMPED and then we watched an hour of Lost, the whole time he was talking ans asking questions.

And then he finally said that Mom's new BF (I guess) had come over for supper with his children. Told me that the dog must have had a wonderful supper as he was fed most of YD's and DS's supper since they did not eat much. Trust me! These two kids could eat you out of house and home if they so desired. I guess the presence of this new man in the house has them a bit uneasy.

So after almost two hours on the phone he finally says he's ready for prayers.

Ladies of Tough Love and the men too...

Would I be under a wrong impression that it's not in the best intrest of the children to introduce them to male friends so soon? Can we at least wait until we think this man may be a serious item before we travel down that road.

Bear in mind that the first BF only disappeared from the scene in the last 4 to 6 weeks. So why this urge, desire, urgency, die-hard presistence attitude that the children MUST be exposed to this enviroment? Why can;t she just date and see these men on her own time and quit trying to FORCE these men on our children.

Why do I sound so <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> about this. I guess because as I was taking the children to school Tuesday morning DS popped the question Daddy, how old do I have to be to decide who I want to live with?, totally out of the blue. OD answered him and said 14 and he asked if he could decide sooner.

People...this is a topic I have NEVER approached with our children. OD has asked a few times and still appears to be pretty sure that come next summer she's coming to stay with me. DS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , I have no idea why he asked or why the question was even on his mind.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/16/04 10:12 PM
Wallace - if I had your email addy I'd send you one too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/16/04 10:33 PM
Trusting - I couldn’t watch “A Vow to Cherish” cuz I knew it would have me <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> too
Some thoughts on the new B/F thing...
1) perhaps your ExW wanted to prove to this guy that they can all be a “happy family”(for future reference)
2) perhaps your ExW wanted to prove to this guy that she’s a good mom (for his kids)
3) perhaps your ExW didn’t realize that he would be bringing his own kids
4) perhaps your ExW thought it would make HIS kids feel more comfortable with her kids there
5) perhaps your ExW doesn’t care about how her actions affect anyone else!
6) perhaps your ExW wanted to see this guy any way she could, and this guy works for UPS and that was the only evening he had available until after Jan 1st.

The introduction of kids to a parent’s date has been debated on many other threads. I think the general consensus has been to NOT do it until the relationship of the parent and “the date” (for lack of a better word) is more defined and possibly more serious. Petvet may have more comment on this, as he’s walked through it with a young son.

Have you spoken to your ExW about bringing “dates” around to meet the kids? Surely with your joint custody situation there is ample time for her to be with B/F without involving the kids yet. Perhaps you should see if an opportunity comes to bring it up to her.

As for your kids moving in - time will tell. I think (obviously, but I’m prejudiced for you) that your kids would be MUCH better off with you! But it’s also true that kids have an ability to play parents against each other, and to want one thing just because where they are isn’t “fun” or “easy”. That doesn’t mean where they’re at is bad, either. For example, the parent that disciplines more may, at a given moment, be the despised parent because they spanked a child. The child may think “I’ll go live with my other parent”...I don’t think your kids are doing this necessarily, but that is what has been posted on the boards here, so I know it goes on. If the kids still want to move in with you, then go for it (if you can). But what if the oldest does, and the other two have to wait until they’re older? Will that be bad (splitting them up)?
PS...you didn't strike me as a "Pimp My Ride" kinda guy, LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ December 16, 2004, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/17/04 12:25 AM
Avondale:

Some thoughts on the new B/F thing...
1) perhaps your ExW wanted to prove to this guy that they can all be a “happy family”(for future reference)

Possibly, but only after 3 weeks. Let's get real! She's reverted back to childhood.

2) perhaps your ExW wanted to prove to this guy that she’s a good mom (for his kids)

She is a good Mom, provides well as far as physical needs, it's the emotional side that is lacking. I guess because she is so set in her mind that there is going to be a "Happy Family"


3) perhaps your ExW didn’t realize that he would be bringing his own kids

He has sole custody I think. From what I gathered his wife walked out about 10 years ago. She knew the kids were coming.

4) perhaps your ExW thought it would make HIS kids feel more comfortable with her kids there

Possibly, bit after only three weeks I feel that the kids should not even be involved. Again, if one of these BF's ever hangs around long enough to become a "serious" thing then by all means begin to include the children. This soon? Ack! Wrong answer.

5) perhaps your ExW doesn’t care about how her actions affect anyone else!

BINGO! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> You're the GRAND winner this week. I'll just quote her favorite comment...Just deal with it, seems to be what the children here a lot of at times.

6) perhaps your ExW wanted to see this guy any way she could, and this guy works for UPS and that was the only evening he had available until after Jan 1st.

Wanted to see him? Of course. But I also sense/fear an urgency in her to find this perfect person and once again become this whole and complete family. Once again...wrong answer...but only time will tell.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The introduction of kids to a parent’s date has been debated on many other threads. I think the general consensus has been to NOT do it until the relationship of the parent and “the date” (for lack of a better word) is more defined and possibly more serious. Petvet may have more comment on this, as he’s walked through it with a young son.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">True and I would agree with the NOT as I think our children would. It was apparent that DS was distrubed by something. It is ver unusual for him to spend that much time on the phone with me. Did it stem from the BF being there, a sense of competition for Mom's attention or possibly competition from the other children. They are both boys, one his age and another a few years older.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you spoken to your ExW about bringing “dates” around to meet the kids? Surely with your joint custody situation there is ample time for her to be with B/F without involving the kids yet. Perhaps you should see if an opportunity comes to bring it up to her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BTDT and got the shirt.

</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They have to cross that bridge so it might as well be sooner than later.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">They will just have to deal with it.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's not really a date, my parents will be there too.</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
and whatever other reason she can come up with to justify her position.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As for your kids moving in - time will tell. I think (obviously, but I’m prejudiced for you) that your kids would be MUCH better off with you! But it’s also true that kids have an ability to play parents against each other, and to want one thing just because where they are isn’t “fun” or “easy”. That doesn’t mean where they’re at is bad, either. For example, the parent that disciplines more may, at a given moment, be the despised parent because they spanked a child. The child may think “I’ll go live with my other parent”...I don’t think your kids are doing this necessarily, but that is what has been posted on the boards here, so I know it goes on. If the kids still want to move in with you, then go for it (if you can). But what if the oldest does, and the other two have to wait until they’re older? Will that be bad (splitting them up)? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And that's the funny part. Of the two parents I am more of the firm one, the one who disciplines, requires them to keep their rooms clean. Their Mom tends to be less confrontational, I guess because of where they currently are in life and possibly a fear of having to enforce some boundaries.

But with me I think they fell or know that there are no competitions for their time or affection. I made that mistake once trying to provide for our family while neglecting them. I WILL NOT make the same mistake twice.

Splitting them up? That's a hard one to answer. It sounds as if the OD has already made up her mind on the subject and over the last several months has not waivered in her decision. DS seems to be headed in tht direction. Not being a mean minded person but I do keep track of what happens there, the times they are left alone, the things that have happened that affect them both physically and emotionaly. It may be that when next summer rolls around I see what the odds are of getting custody.

Joint custody? Ack...another wrong answer. She has custody while I only have visitation rights. It's just that in between my visitation rights and the desire to have them as often as possible that if you looked at it from an overnight view we are almost joint custody.

Playing one against the other. I've kept my eyes and mind alert for that type of behaviour and have seen little of it from the older two. Of course YD will do anything and everything to get her way but she is only eight and still learning. I honestly do not feel that it stems from that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">PS...you didn't strike me as a "Pimp My Ride" kinda guy, LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I'm not really but DS loes that show. Heck...I don;t even have cable here so I can't watch it anyway. DS just filled me in on all that was happening and I listened .
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/17/04 03:38 AM
Hey All,

I'll make this short and brief, because I've tried twice to post something rather long, and this computer of mine is dumping, and crashing.

avondale...

My email addy is, williamwallace1953@comcast.net

Trusting Him....

I think avondale covered all the bases on what your former is doing with her new B/F.

Personally, and IMHO... I think your former needs to grow up, as this is in fact affecting your children, and if she keeps this type of behavior up... I would in fact seek full custody as a fahter. what she is doing and based on your post, is pure nonsense.

Petvet...

LOL... I'm not thinking with my hormones... I'm looking at the whole package before I jump in and take the dive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/17/04 06:40 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by avondale25:
<strong> Hey,
I have never seen this thread on page TWO, kind of a scarey thought that the wisdom and support on this page might not always be here (at least now, for me)... I hope everyone is doing well. We got two inches of snow last night but no ice, yippee. I don't have a lot to say, just wanted to say HAPPY FRIDAY ! ! ! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you were worried about this thread making it to page 2. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/17/04 03:55 PM
Hi Everyone,

I'm so sorry I haven't been able to post for awhile. Things have been crazy busy. I have missed reading all your posts and writing to you. I think after today, things should slow down for me.

I have to leave for school to help with my YD's Christmas party in a little bit. Then my OD has her birthday-overnight party tonight. She becomes a teenager tomorrow! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Wow, I can't believe how fast they're all growing up. I sure am enjoying them so much.

I read everyone's post to catch up, so I'm anxious to write you all back. I'll try to check in sometime this weekend. AVONDALE, I'll be checking my e-mail as soon as I can. My thoughts and prayers are with you all, even if my posts aren't. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/18/04 01:27 AM
That icon is not for me but for circumstances that life brings too us.

Here I was around a month or so ago asking for advice on how to deal with BF #1 being added as an authorized person to pick our children up.

Now I'm back asking for advice on how to deal with BF #2 telling former that he wants to take DS hunting after Christmas. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Circumstances Again

AS we were coming home today DS tells me BF was talking to Mom last night and wants to take him hunting after Christmas. OK, the initial reaction was hurt and jealous. How dare he? DS and I have discussed the hunting thing and had already made plans for the Spring to begin this.

The problem is that I have NO idea who this huy is or how he handles his children. I assume pretty good as he has raised them by him self but I guess the biggest issue is that after only 4 weeks and one meal at their house he want to taks DS hunting.

Does he really want to go hunting or does he really want to impress FW?

I am learning to deal with issues as they arise. I called FW and informed her that DS had told me BF wants to take him hunting. Expressed my dislike again that she should not be involving the children in her relationships so soon and that before DS is allowed in the woods with BF I will have to get to know him and trust him.

How do you purpose learning to trust him she ask. Really simple. You tell BF that DS's Daddy will not allow him in the woods with weapons with men he does not know. If necessary I'll call him and arrange to meet him for lunch or whatever so I make a judgement call for myself.

Why not ask DS how he feels anout this she replied. Sorry dear, this is a decision that the parents wll make and it does not really matter how DS feels about it. He is not old enough to make those decisions himself and you should not be putting him in that position.

I'll think about it she replied.

Yea.....right. I'll think about it typically means I have not heard a word you said and I'll continue to do exactly as I please. Sorry folks...this FW is beginning to push Daddy just a tad bit to far.

But I am serious about meesting new BF. If he is SERIOUS about this relationship and is as good a father as FW says he is then he will completely understand my viewpoint. If not, then we can assume that he is around for other reasons.

Leah2be

Good to hear from you again. I was beginning to offer up lost and found prayers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> as we had not heard from you in a while.

Hope you had a wonderful time with you daughter.

I picked up my children today and am off all next week with them. Mom comes back nest Saturday to pick them back up.

PetVet

Thanks so much for a thread that offers encouragemtn and support through all these issues. Iwent back last night and managed to read pages 1 through 91 and learned a LOT.

Actually it brought to the forfront of my mind a lot of things I need to do. I'll dig back through and quote the parts that really hit home. Actually more like a slap in the face. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Wallace

Wow! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Your entire relationship with this woman is buried in here. From the time she first appeared till now. I can say one thig, she is presistent, as you are at times. You might want to hang on to her for a while cuz she might be the one.

Yeppers I said that. I read EVERY thing up through 91 and will catch the rest this weekend. You are entitled to a wonderful woman, even if she does try to speed things up at times.

Relady

Awesome Testimony in your words and your walk of faith over the last few years. It was a pleasure to read where you were then and where you are now. The one thing that stood out was that you are faithful, not only to God bit also to this thread and the people here.

Thank You!

Avondale

What can I say. I had never read your ENTIRE story. You are an AWESOME lady. Even in the midst of all the struggles and turmoil you have experienced since you first started posting here you continue to offer hope and encouragement to Many...mAny...maNy...manY...MANY...others.

Trust me! God has something in store for each of us. He's just in the refining and purifying process of each of our lives right now. And THAT was discovered by all that reading last night.

Trust in Him and let Him guide through each and every day and you can never go wrong. Oh! I pray for the strenght that I see in you (and all you others too) as you struggle with each of these issues in your life.

Leah2be

Opps! I forgot to give you your PRAISE. I was so happy just to see your name again that it completely blew my MIND <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> .

You too are an AWESOME testimony of what God sometimes calls us to. Every word you offer here as you seek advice and counsel also offers strenght and support to I know me and I pray also to the rest of us.

Hang in the lady. God does have a plan for you!

To All

I guess the simplest way to put it is to quote it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
(Galatians 5:22-23 MKJV)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Those attributes are what I see being developed in each of you in this thread and I wanted to personally THANK YOU for the encouragement you all offer to us as I develop those same attributes.

THANK YOU ALL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/18/04 02:24 AM
Ok All,

The weekend is here, so make it great!

Avondale

I never got an email from you unless it went to my bulk mail. Did you get it back?

How are your Holidays shaping up?

Trusting Him

Thank you for your kind words, if you keep reading you'll also see that I disappeared for about a year. Not because I purposely left, but because God had me isolated and He became the only one I discussed my situation with. It was a terrific time in my life even though I lost my Mother at that time as well.

I discovered That the Lord is truly our best friend when everyone else deserts us!

Now, about your DS; I would definitely want to have input into who this new bf is before he took my son on a hunting trip! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Is this trip overnight or just a day trip? I can't imagine your W allowing this. She doesn't really know him after only 4 weeks!!

Oh, and you certainly brave going against the women here regarding Wallace. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

There is nothing good about her being persistent, remember "he who finds a wife finds a good thing"B] <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[B]Petvet


I wasn't considering my jewelry store being profitable before I incorporate. Help me here...I was thinking more like putting my real estate and jewelry business into a corporation and have all monies paid to my corporation and take a salary. And buy income property through the corp.

What do you think?

I'm not concerned about liability as I am thinking about keeping more of my money.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Leah2be

Good to hear from you, hope all is well.

Wallace

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm looking at the whole package before I jump in and take the dive. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whether you know it or not, you have already taken the dive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Control Hhhhhaaaa, Out the window. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/18/04 05:42 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Roll Me Away said on October 19, 2002

Here is something to think about. Try to distinguish between being "friends" and being "friendly". I think it is healthy and good to get to the point where you can continue to be friendly with your ex-spouse. A whole lot of hurt goes on during an affair and a divorce. It is a mature thing for both parties to be able to get to a friendly level after all of that has occured. Yet, I for one, don't see a need for ex-spouses to be big "friends". Maybe it works for some, but IN GENERAL, I don't think it works best for both parties to try to be friends right off the divorce.

To me, being a friend means that you will expend time and emotional energy on each other. EC, that is exactly what is happening in your case. You are spending precious emotional energy on your exW, that is needed for your own healing. You need to be spending your efforts on building a happy and fulfilling new life for yourself. It is hard, because you were forced out of a life that was once happy and fulfilling for you, and then it was taken away from you.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This really hit home as I have attempted to be friends with the former (in stupidity I guess) because I do understand that I have spent a HUGE deal of emotional energy on that effort instead of making those same HUGE efforts for myself and our children.

It made me realize that even though I can choose to continue to love my former just as Christ loves me that it is time for that energy to be focused on me and my future.

She then followed those comments up with:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe this next statement with all of my heart: If your ex-spouse realizes at some point in the future that he/she made a huge mistake and they want to try to get back with you - then he/she will come back around and he/she will knock themselves out silly trying to PROVE to you what a terrible mistake they made and that you are the ONLY person they love. ANYTHING LESS THAN THIS IS JUST MORE OF THE SAME OLD, SAME OLD!!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And with that statement came almost a huge sense of relief because I also believe that with all my heart. Am I where God wants me to be? I doubt it. Am I getting closer or striving toward that goal? Praise God....yes I am.

Petvet then follow up with a statement thaat his wife was trying to keep him in the game. That was a scary thought to me and in hindsight I can say that each time I began to enforce a boundary or some true seperation she would do something that pulled me right back in.

No more! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I will either see her proving herself silly trying to prove to me that I am the only person in her world or I'll just sit back and wait for God to drop that lady out of the sky into my lap with a note that says ♥ To: Trusting...From God ♥ See...I even learned how to make hearts. I think the thanks goes to Avondale.


Awesome Insight from Petvet:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Love is a conditional commitment to an imperfect person. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And of course there was TONS of other useful information in all those posts.

God Bless each of you and I pray that everyone will have a wonderful Holiday Season.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/20/04 05:10 PM
HI ALL,

This morning I finally got a chance to be able to post all of you... but I sat down to type and discovered my cable was down. Right, now I'm away from home and can't write long, but just wanted to let you know my computer is down in case you don't hear from me for awhile. Hopefully, they'll have it working soon. I will write as soon as I can.

You are all very much in my thoughts and prayers. TRUSTING HIM, I'm sorry the conflict with your former continues. I think it is very reasonable to meet this new BF before he takes your son hunting. I hope she agrees to this.

As TRUSTING wrote, I'm thankful too for this thread and all of you dear folk. You are a support and encouragement to me. I have learned a lot reading and posting here. THANK YOU!
Posted By: sky diver Re: Tough Love - 12/21/04 10:57 AM
PetVet- Merry Christmas and to everyone in this thread. Man you guys and gals are growing roots. Took me awhile to get here.

Making the rounds and leaving an comforting e-card greeting- keep your speakers on! Just wanted to say Hi- that God love you all very much! Happy holidays!!

http://www.angelhugs.com/serenity.html

Christ Love
my love
sky
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/22/04 06:11 AM
Hey everyone,

Well my computer is still down again, and I probably will not be getting back up until sometime next week.

I'm at work right now, and it's been pretty busy. But I start my vacation tomorrow at noon, and will be outta here until after the first of the year.

I'll try to get my computer back up as soon as possible.

I'm very grateful for everyone on this thread, for all their wisdom and direction. It's been a rough ride for all of us, and you have all been an inspiration to me for being here, and keeping things in perspective.

I wish everyone a Happy Holiday (and a Merry Christmas), as well as a "Happy New Year"! Hopefully next year will be better for all of us.

Sky Diver...

Thanks for the post... I have no sound or video card on this computer, but I will try to see if I can get into it none the less.

God Bless you all!!

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/21/04 08:40 PM
Well, with some of us not being online as much due to the holidays, let me take this time to say "Merry Christmas" and I pray 2005 will bring us all many blessings! Thanks to each of you who have helped me through this very rough year...your insight and encouragement have meant more than the words in this post can convey. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/22/04 12:40 AM
Hey everyone!

I plan on being around... I'm not so sure my computer is going to cooperate though.

I'm at home now... and I'm giving this computer a run through to see if it holds up.

So far... so good.

I'll keep working on it until it's stable... so hopefully I will be able to post more.

It seems that when I get into anything rather long... it crashes.

I'll be around though... just won't be able to say very much for awhile.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/24/04 11:15 PM
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Hi Everyone. My computer is finally up and running but so am I. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I have three girls anxiously waiting for me, so I can't write now. Just wanted to give you all a big hug and wish you all of God's best as we celebrate our Savior's birth.

Thanks so much for being the special folks you are! You've been a wonderful support to me. Wishing you all much peace, joy and love. Merry Christmas with love.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 12/25/04 10:57 PM
Merry Christmas!

The children and I had a WONDERFUL Christmas and a GREAT time for the week before. Now that they are with Mom...I need to clean the house. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I pray that each of you and your families had a wonderful time over the Holidays.

God Bless Each of You!
Posted By: eagleswings Re: Tough Love - 12/27/04 01:30 AM


<small>[ December 26, 2004, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: Brokenandtired ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/27/04 01:25 PM
HI ALL,

Hope each of you had a nice Christmas. I had a great time with my family. My brother and sister came in from out of town, so we were all together. Those times are always very special!

My computer is coming and going a bit, so I think I'll post a little at a time in case it goes down. I hate losing a long post. So if I don't get to everyone, it's nothing personal. It will mean that the connection went down before I finished. Thanks for understanding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/27/04 01:50 PM
Trusting Him,

I'm so glad to hear you had such a great time with your children. They really can be such a blessing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I hope you and your former were able to work out the situation with her new BF and your son. Her going on so quickly to a new man has to be so difficult. It seems she is just trying to fill a void in her life that only God can fill. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

She reminds me of my H, and how he runs from one thing to another, all in attempt to run from himself. He does not like to stand still long enough to face the music alone. Earlier when we were separated, he did the same thing with other women. He seemed to have no "down" time. At this point, I don't think there's another woman, I believe it's just work. But only God knows for sure.

Keep being the wonderful father that you are! Your children are so blessed to have your love and stability in their lives. Someday maybe your former will grow to appreciate you for all you are. Through God, nothing is impossible.

Meanwhile, you are doing the right thing to keep moving forward in your life. I've come to realize the only way I can have any peace with my H, is to have zero expectations in the relationship department. If I start thinking about how I wish he'd think, respond or act, I will be disappointed. (After reading what RELADY wrote me, I think I need to define zero expectations. If you can, could you read my post to her? Thanks. )

Instead my every hope must be found in the Lord. If I can consistently look to Him to meet my needs, I will be okay. I believe this is the only way I can stay married and at peace. This I do for our girls with the hope of giving them a home with both parents and some stability.

It helps when I read some of your posts and talk to others who are divorced. It reinforces the idea that divorce is no utopia either. Sometimes I get caught up with thinking that divorce would have to be a happier option. But in my "quieter" moments, I don't think that is the solution. Based on all you know about my situation,any thoughts on this??

I value your opinion because your former sounds much like my H. Also, you have children who are the same ages as mine. You have seen the effects of divorce first hand. But you have also lived with the anguish of a one sided love in marriage. Both situations can be so painful. That's why I struggle so to be content with my choice. There just doesn't seem to be any good one.

But God is there through it all. I keep reminding myself of that and other truths like Him having a perfect plan for our lives. Thats where I need to stay. Thanks for listening TRUSTING. I appreciate you!

<small>[ December 28, 2004, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/27/04 02:15 PM
AVONDALE,

I hope you had a nice Christmas. Did you spend it with your children? I'm sure you must be looking forward to a new year and all that it will hopefully bring your way. I'm so sorry this past year has been so difficult for you. You are a wonderfully strong lady with a steady faith. I really believe brighter days are ahead. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

You have asked me some good questions along the way. I'm sorry I haven't been able to write you sooner. It seems it has been one thing or another for quite awhile now. I just hope my computer hangs in there long enough to write you all.

One question was something to the effect of "What type of plan do you have to be able to continue to live with the rejection you now experience?" That is an excellent question and one which I've thought a great deal about.

As I wrote to TRUSTING, I have to live with zero expectations of my H. Only then can I live without the hurt and anger. I'm not sure if this is entirely possible or not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> That is something I'm still trying to determine.

Can I just accept a "room-mate" type of marriage? Is that what God would have me do? Of course there are moments when this is truly a lonely situation. However, I don't fool myself into thinking a divorce would cure all my "lonely blues". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I believe there might be someone out there who could love me, but at what cost to the girls? Whenever another person enters the equation, that person brings all their baggage and stuff with them. All of that would be so difficult for the girls to deal with.

So I can't help but feel it would be best to either stay alone in marriage or be alone in divorce. Either way I'm alone and so at least this way, the girls have us both under one roof. They don't have to deal with the back and forth thing. I don't have to deal with custody and financial struggles. AM I THINKING CLEARLY?
Anyone else please feel free to chime in.

You also asked about my H's gifts to me. As with all areas of his life, he is very erratic. Sometimes he gives nothing, as in the year that he said he was taking an all day motorcycle ride with a friend for MY birthday gift. ( My birthday is on New Years Day.) He said my gift would be a happy H. He was serious too because HIS ride was what I got. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

He has also given my very nice gifts to me like a three stone diamond ring. So one never knows... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sorry for rambling on so much. I guess I've been holding a lot in as I haven't posted in so long. Sorry you all get to be the recipients of all my thoughts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks for being a friend Avondale. God bless you with a good day!
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/27/04 02:31 PM
WALLACE,

How was Christmas with your family and girlfriend? Hope all was peaceful and happy. It will be very interesting to see what takes place between you two this new year. I'm curious to see what you end up doing. You too, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Could you read what I wrote Avondale? I'd love to hear what you think of my current plan. Like TRUSTING, you understand both sides of this equation, although you have a girlfriend to throw into the mix. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Having experienced life with and without your wife, do you think divorce has been the better option for you? Could you have been able to stay with your wife if she were being faithful yet not really with you with you? Does that question make sense? I'm sorry I'm bombing you with so many questions. Please forgive this searching mind. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I do hope the new year brings with it much happiness for you Wallace. Take care and thanks for all your support this past year. You are always very kind and helpful.

Relady and Petvet,

Seeings how my computer seems to still be hanging in there, I'll keep trucking. I hope both of you had a wonderful Christmas.

Relady, how is your online business going? I hope well. Please excuse the jump but I'm curious... Do you have any children? I'm trying to remember all that I've read on your posts but I'm not sure if I ever read about your situation in regards to children.

You always seem very positive and upbeat about things. I know that must come from the Lord. I just wondered if you deal with any of the issues that come with children and divorce. As you can read from what I wrote to TRUSTING and AVONDALE, I'm still trying to determine the best course of action for our family. I'd love to hear your perspective too.

PETVET, I know your a man of few words, but if you have thoughts on what I've written I'd love to hear from you too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Especially on the topic of whether you would choose to have stayed with your EW if she were being faithful but not that loving towards you.

Thanks again all for being there. Have a great week!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/27/04 10:47 PM
Hi all!

I hope everyone had a good Christmas.

Trusting: I hope I am respondign to the right person, but I have to give you much credit for reading through the old posts. It's been three years. I am happy that this post has been beneficial to many. As far as the dating is concern, I am going to use a Dr.Laura expression. Don't introduce kids to date unless you know the person will be a KEEPER. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You want to hang with someone who will be a compliment to you not out of need. I don't believe in dating folks I know I cannot have a future because it's a waste of my time. I have always been that way. I have benefited from the fact that I have been seeing someone or knowing someone for over two years now. It pays to know someone through several seasons you know. People can put on acting jobs for short periods. I don't believe in long distance relationships because it's hard to catch people on their bad days. I want folks to be themselves whether it's good or bad. It takes time to know folks.

Wallace: No metal this time around for me. I'm glad you are thinking with a clear head.

Relady: That's a good idea to have a corporation with different subs underneath. You can set up your enterprises under the corp umbrella and operate as d/b/a. Pay yourself a salary from the corp. Keep in mind that the corp will have to pay payroll taxes.You can also expense the insurance and retirement benefits if you choose to match the retirement contribution fom your salary.

Avondale: How are you doing?

Me: I had surgery last Tuesday, so I am trying to recover. The doc told me it would be simple. I be ---- if the doc lied to me. I had to roll out of the bed and literally crawl out of the recovery room to parking lot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> The nurses asked me whether I wanted to stay one night in the hospital, I said --- no, with pain like this I would rather die at home, so I told them to give me my clothes and my drugs so I can exit this place. I called the doc two days later and asked him what in the --- did he do to me with all of these holes and bandages on my stomach. His nurse was Mrs. Smarty Pants and responded that it could have been worst because they normally have more holes in the stomach. She said it was microscopic or something. So folks, if doc tells you that microscopic or whatever is less painful, tell him to eat gunpowder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I can't wait to see the bill. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/28/04 03:52 AM
Hey Everyone,

Hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas I did nothing special but it was great, spent half the day with my DS and then he went off to do whatever he does!

Leah2be

No, my X and I were only together three years too long. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> However, regardless of the time together, the pain is the same.

And thank God, no children were involved. It was difficult enough for me to take care of myself at that time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have to live with zero expectations of my H. Only then can I live without the hurt and anger. I'm not sure if this is entirely possible or not. That is something I'm still trying to determine.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">IMHO, it's basically impossible. I tried it, as in "walking on eggshells" I don't believe there is respect when you allow this, and nothing gets better, if you just accept his actions to keep the peace, it only gets worst.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can I just accept a "room-mate" type of marriage? Is that what God would have me do? Of course there are moments when this is truly a lonely situation. However, I don't fool myself into thinking a divorce would cure all my "lonely blues". </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you feel you have to accept that? I believe we all deserve better than that. Our relationships on earth are to be a mirror image of the way Christ loved the church.

Divorce is definitely not a cure all, the lonliness doesn't go away, but the abuse stops, when I say abuse I mean withholding sex, and affection is emotional abuse and a serious method of control. And the pain is unbearable!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

At this point until The Lord has specifically told you what to do, do nothing and allow Him to be everything in your life that you're missing.

Trusting Him

Glad to see you had a wonderful time with your children. How did it go with the Hunting trip? Did you allow your DS to go?

Petvet

Thank you for the advice, I have been doing a lot of research and hopefully by next month, I'll have something completed.

I did get a Ficticious Business Name for my online jewelry business and separate checking accounts and credit cards because I will have to file state tax and also charge tax for California Residents. I want it to be done correctly. I didn't realize, the Corp had to pay payroll taxes if I took a salary, but it makes sense. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Avondale

How was your holiday? And how is your daughter and her husband? I haven't heard you mention them.

Are you feeling OK about your pending divorce?

Wallace

Since you have already given your girlfriend the ring, what could you have possibly given her for Christmas, A House?? Or did you Elope?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Me

I finally got my store up and running, at least it is online, please go visit and let me know what you think...the address is... www.redcarpetglitz.com

relady
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/28/04 03:31 PM
RELADY.

Congratualations on having your store up and running! I went to visit your site- You did a great job with it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'll be sure to spread the word to others with an interest in the glitz and glamour. I guess I'm still in the "Mommy mode" Most of my jewelry tends to be pretty simple looking.

Thanks for responding to my questions. I appreciate your perspective. When you discussed the whole idea of withholding, were you speaking from personal experience? I don't know any other woman who has experienced this with her husband.

I'm pretty clueless as to the "whys" of it. Not to toot my own horn, but I'm not ugly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I exercise, eat right and have always been physically fit. People have often commented on how young I look and they use to say how crazy my H was when he was looking elsewhere.

As you hopefully know from everything I've written, I've always tried to treat my H with respect and kindness. (Even though the kids are on vacation, and I finally have the chance to sleep in a little, H has woken me up every morning to either iron his shirt or make his breakfast) I treat him well yet he remains uninterested. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

About zero expectations... I might need to more clearly define that. If I make a great dinner for him and he decides to work late, I have to accept his choice. But that doesn't mean I don't express my disappointment with his priorities.

If he chooses to ignore me physically, I don't just look the other way and pretend it's not happening. I've communicated my serious concern and anger regarding this. But I can not go to bed every night with the expectation that he'll finally be affectionate because I will be greatly disappointed and hurt every time.


I can't be living with the discouragement and defeat of always having my every hope dashed by his actions. That use to be how it worked. I created this scenario of how I expected to be treated and then when it didn't come to fruition, I was often disappointed.

So I came to a point where I realized I needed to back way off with my hopes and dreams of the type of marriage I had always envisioned. I either needed to accept what was or I needed to end it. I know what I'm trying to say but I'm not so sure I'm effectively communicating it. Does this make any sense?

I don't want you to think I walk around like a passive, weak lady letting H do anything he desires without any comments from me. I don't. I do express my feelings to H. But maybe there needs to be some other "action" taken because my feelings obviously only matter so much here? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Well, I guess I've rambled on long enough on that topic. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I hope this better explains what I meant about expectations. Thanks again Relady! I really enjoy hearing your thoughts. It seems you can relate to some of what I'm experiencing. That's always helpful to gain the perspective of one who's been there. Hope you have a good day!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 12/28/04 05:15 PM
Hi all!

Leah: It is hard to live with someone under the same roof if there is no love, affection, and respect. It makes life miserable. Could I have live with ex w/o affair? There were other things outside of the affair that were problem areas as well. Normally, the affair is the bombshell from all the other missy stuff.

Relady: Corp has to pay fica on wages which is a expense. Plus the the corp presents a shield against lawsuits for you. Make sure that you sell quality items and be honest with folks. There are alot of bad guys in the jewelry business. I'll take a look at your site and give you my comments. I can't wait to see it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/29/04 06:32 AM
Relady - Wow, what a great site! All your products look wonderful and very reasonably priced. When you become a nationally-known vendor, we can all say ‘we knew you way back when’...I worked in retail (accessories and jewelry at a major department store) for several years and I think you definitely have the goods - in more ways than one! Congratulations!

Petvet - What’s this about surgery? I never thought of you as being a wimp! You’ve never used so many <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> faces in a single post before. I hope you’re feeling better now, and didn’t miss too much of Christmas with your son (and your buddy, either)!

Leah - I think the bottom line is, you can only do what you feel comfortable with. By “comfortable” I mean what you have peace (spiritually, and otherwise) to handle. That may or may not be separation; it may or may not be with different communication scenarios; it may or may not be the result of any “resultive action taken”; it may or may not include your ultimate hopes and dreams for the “perfect” life. The bottom line is what Leah can handle. I totally agree with Relady in that you should do nothing until the Lord tells you what to do.


Trusting - I’m so glad you had a wonderful time with your kids! You are a rock for them and I know as they grow older they will realize it. (It seems they probably already do, but you’re about to enter the teen years so they may not verbalize it in those words!)

Wallace - I hope Santa brings you a new computer! So tell us....what did you get your g/f for Christmas? I’m smiling as I remember the shock Relady and I had at the first Christmas gifts you gave her!

Me - This was not my best Christmas, emotionally speaking. I guess after going through all the legalities of divorce negotiation & paperwork between Thanksgiving and Dec. 25, and now the finality of my divorce next week, has made it more difficult. I kept looking back at the “way things SHOULD have been” which is not healthy, I know. But I couldn’t help it! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> But next week, my daughter and I are going to Aruba for 5 days for a “fresh start”. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 12/28/04 07:35 PM
Hey All,

Avondale

Thank you for your input. I wanted to make sure of the quality price at an affordable price. Department stores are certainly rip offs!

It's funny you should mention Aruba, I was just looking for a place there for next year. Be sure and let me know what you think of it.

Petvet

I meant to come back and mention your surgery. I had to laugh as I got a picture of your rolling out of recovery. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I'm surprised they let you go home!!

My jewelry is quality 'Fashion Jewelry' No diamonds and pearls. I do know what you meant with crooks and all!

Wallace

Come on, give up the goods!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

All

Have a wonderful day, It's storming here, so I think I will just work from home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/28/04 09:57 PM
Avondale,

It's good to hear from you. I'm so sorry your Christmas wasn't better. Aruba sure sounds nice! I'll be thinking of you next week and wishing you a wonderful time away!

Yes, you are right about only I can determine what I can and can not accept in this relationship. And you are right about not doing anything until I receive the go ahead from the Lord. It can be difficult to wait. I guess I feel like I have been in a holding pattern for too long. I want things to be different. I'm just not sure how to make that happen.

Thanks for your steady input and advice. I'll be counting down the days with you till Aruba... Sun,warmth and a fresh start. Sounds wonderful! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Petvet,

That surgery seemed to come up quickly. I hope you can mend as quickly. I'm sorry it was such a painful experience. Ouch. I'm glad you have Buddy with you through it all. Hopefully she's as good a nurse as a Buddy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Yes, I know what you mean about all the other contributing issues when it comes to divorce. We obviously are experiencing them right now, as to the best of my knowledge there is no one else.

I wanted to clarify some thing... There isn't a total lack of love, respect and affection between my H and I. I can understand where you have probably gained that perspective from all I've written.

I do still love my H. I'm not always so sure why but I do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> And my H will tell me he loves me too. Although I'm not always confident of his love, he does SAY that he cares.

We also share a measure of respect towards each other in some areas, not all. The affection department is the weakest right now, by his choice.

Anyhow, thanks for your input and I hope you are feeling 100% very soon.

RELADY,

In my last post, I failed to write that I think your items are very reasonably priced. I agree with Avondale, that they are presented well and look beautiful. I wish you great success in your business.

I know another man who sold his jewelry over the internet but he did higher end custom made jewelry. It was harder to find a market. It seems like your price range is much more feasable for most people. That will hopefully afford you more sales opportunties. Great job!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 12/28/04 11:28 PM
Hey All,

My computer is still crashing... so I'll see if I can get this through this time... after numerous attempts over the last several days.

I need to be brief, so I'll say that I hope everyone had a very "Merry Christmas".

I know this is a very hard time of year for many of us (myself included), but it appears that we all made it, and for that I'm thankful.

Trusting Him...

I'm so pleased to hear that you had a very nice Holiday with your children. The kids really help make the Holiday that much brighter, and it sounds like all of you had a great time together.

What did you decide about the hunting trip scenario?

I've said it before... and I will say it again... IMHO, your former needs to grow up. She should know better. You should not have to contemplate this hunting scenario at all. This, in fact is a "NO BRAINER!"

You don't let your kid go hunting with someone your former just met four weeks ago.

I wouldn't even consider the matter, it's just that ridiculous for your former to even consider to allow happen.

I'm not saying this because I'm anti-gun either... I'm very much pro-gun, but not with my children and not with someone my former just met four weeks ago.

This was all said with love and kindness, so please don't take it any other way. It is with deep concern for your childs safety and well being that I write this.

Well so far my computer is still holding up.

Leah...

Sounds like you have been busy, and it appears that you had a nice Christmas... and I'm happy to hear that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">by leah:

Having experienced life with and without your wife, do you think divorce has been the better option for you? Could you have been able to stay with your wife if she were being faithful yet not really with you with you?

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Under the cicumstances I was in... "D", was in fact the best option. It was what I called the "NO OPTION, OPTION!"

I could have in fact stayed with my exW had she been faithful. She was ruining me financially, but I think the unfaithfulness and the financial both were a hand in hand proposition.

The first time I found out about the "A", that was the end... even though I already had "D" proceedings in play... I was determined at that point to end it as soon as I could.

The reason I stayed with her for as long as I did, was in fact for the kids. It's not that I didn't love her, I just couldn't stand being around a person so irresponsible any longer.

To answer your question that you put forth in your post.

Divorce IMHO, is always the very last step to take.

Divorce doesn't solve all of your problems... in fact, it may even create more.

By what you have posted over time... your "H" sounds like he can be a very self centered, selfish, childish, and demeaning man... and then turn around and be quite the opposite. I had an exW like that... she was determined by her Doctor to be a pi-polar manic depressive. I would say, that you suggest he get help, but I have a feeling he probably won't.

In your last couple of posts, you stated some things that really struck me. I tried to quote them... but can't at this point, due to my wonderful computer... but it sounds like he is a cake eater. Your doing all the things your doing... him waking you up to iron his shirts and such? What are you? his wife, or his housekeeper and personal servant?

Marriage is a give and take situation, and they have to be equally balanced by both parties, or you have problems... such as what your going through.

Your the giver, and he's the taker. It's not equally balanced, therefor you have the problems that you have.

Until your "H" sees the light of day, he probably will not change his taker mentality. He needs to have somthing snap him out of it.

As I said before... "D", is the very last option you want to pursue... unless things start getting worse. Each and everyone of our situations are somewhat different, so there is no set rule on when to decide to call it a day. Put it in the Lord's hands, and he will let you know when enough, is enough. On the other hand... IMHO, you "H" needs to see a Therapist, and see if he can't get on some sort of treatment to handle his (IMO)
Bi-Polar condition.

avondale...

I didn't want to start this out with a quote, but this really hit me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By avondale:

Me - This was not my best Christmas, emotionally speaking. I guess after going through all the legalities of divorce negotiation & paperwork between Thanksgiving and Dec. 25, and now the finality of my divorce next week, has made it more difficult. I kept looking back at the “way things SHOULD have been” which is not healthy, I know. But I couldn’t help it!

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">(((((avondale)))))

I know how you feel, and it is a very trying situation that you enduring this time of the year.

It's so very difficult not looking back after so many years... it is something we do, and you will probably continue to do. For some of us... that part of it goes away in a very short period of time... and for some of us... that part seems like it will never end.

While I was shopping this Christmas... I went to the Mall where I first met my wife, and past by the very spot that we first met. It was a very emotional moment, that brought back a lot of memories. You ask yourself at that point, what could I have done differently? You rethink everything that you possibly can, and ask yourself why Lord, did this have to happen?

I had a dream last night with my exW in it. It felt so real... we were even talking about how we could possibly put our "M" back together again in my dream... that's when I shot upright and awoke in my bed. So much for dreams.

Well, I have managed to ramble off on a wild tangent... but I think you get the idea of when we stop thinking about our ex-spouses. Hang in there avondale... my prayers are with you.

Petvet...

You went in and had surgery? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I'm sorry... but you had me rolling when you described what you went through and what was happening.

I'm sorry to hear that you got all jerked up there, but it doesn't surprise me. IMO, these doctor's and Hospitals are getting way out of hand... in their demeanor and in their outragous
charges.

Your going to need something when you get the bill... (heavy dose of some sort of medication to stabilize you) even with Insurace.

IMHO, the way the Medical Industry is going, it is turning out to be a joke!

Hope your doing better... it doesn't sound like it could of got much worse.


relady...

Glad to hear that your online store is up and running.

I'm not too much into glitz, but I will check out your store and let you know what I think.

Petvet is correct, when your a Corporation, and you take any kind of wages they all have to be matched,or dealt with (FICA, Medicare, and even unemployment in some States). You may even want to look at Liability insurace as well to protect your corporation.

When I had my business... as it grew... we needed everything including Corporate Attorneys... it gets that crazy.

Good luck though! I hope you make a ton of money.

me...

Well what did I get my G/F this year for Christmas?

Your going to find this hard to believe... but we decided to not exchange presents this year. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I did however, add to her wedding ring set... but I really don't count that.

I'm not really looking forward to the next year.

My G/F is expecting me to follow through with "M" sometime this summer, along with a new house... and I'm still procrastinating all over the place.

I can't believe my computer has lasted this long... maybe because I'm using a different browser instead of Microsoft's Explorer.

What's everyone going to do for the New Year?

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ December 28, 2004, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 12/29/04 01:50 AM
Wallace, Wallace, Wallace <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
You said:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well what did I get my G/F this year for Christmas?
Your going to find this hard to believe... but we decided to not exchange presents this year.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're right, I'm finding that VERY hard to believe! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I did however, add to her wedding ring set... but I really don't count that.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OK, I'll bite...why don't you count that? I sure would. I bet SHE does too! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I'm not really looking forward to the next year. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is that? You haven't dug a hole so deep you can't get out of it...or have you?

<small>[ December 28, 2004, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 12/29/04 02:14 AM
Wallace,

I had to laugh when I read Avondale's post, as I was thinking the same thing...I wouldn't consider an addition to a wedding set nothing. In fact, I would love to have such a "nothing" gift. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Also, as Avondale said you don't need to not look forward to the new year. Make the changes you need to feel good about your future. It's not to late until you say "I Do". Please, please, be sure of what you commit to. We all want to see you happy.

Wallace, that's really interesting about your exwife having bipolar tendencies. I feel quite certain my H does too. He was diagnosed as being very narcissistic with some manic-depressive stuff going on too. He wasn't officially diagnosed as being bi-polar but most people who know him have wondered.

In fact, I have a therapist friend and a nurse friend who both have mentioned the idea of him having a personality disorder.

You were also correct in saying that he probably wouldn't go get help. He won't. In fact, he was quite upset that I would ever suggest such a thing. He said that even if he were bi-polar, he would never want that "label". He also very much enjoys the "highs". He wouldn't want to be "normal".

So yet another issue in our wonderful, little marriage. My sister has always said I wouldn't know what to do with a normal, loving H. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> There sure are times when I would like to know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I can sympathize with your computer difficulties. I've lost my share of post to people. Makes you want to keep it all short and sweet. Hope you can get it fixed soon.

Take care Wallace and I'm still wishing you a great 2005. You can make the choices that will make it a happy one! You can do it and we're here to cheer you on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: sweethomenm Re: Tough Love - 01/01/05 06:51 AM
Hi I am new here. I've posted once here and once in GQII. I haven't really gotten any responses. Is anyone here willing to help? D/D-Lonely Christmas
GQII-WH moved on, What next for me?
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/01/05 02:16 PM
Happy New Year Everyone!

I hope you all had a good new year's eve and are looking forward to a fresh start in the new year.

Today is my birthday. My sister and her husband came up to visit, which has been so nice! My H has been gone this past week on business and will continue to be gone throughout part of next week too.

I'm especially glad my sister is here since things have been so difficult with my H. As is typical, there has been little communication, and the little that has taken place has been very negative.

I realize I don't have any right to whine because I'm choosing to be here right now. There's just a whole lot involved in the situation - nothing is that clear cut at all.

My goal for the new year is to become a more confident, strong individual. I want to move forward in my life and I'm determined to do that one way or another. Thank you all for your help along the way!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/02/05 01:21 AM
Oh Leah,
We all understand your situation isn't clear cut...and you don't need to make excuses about whining <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> cuz we understand. We're here for each other, no matter what our unique situations are!
I like your goals - to move forward in life and become more confident. I second that motion for myself!

Happy New Year everyone...and 48 hours til I'm in ~~Aruba~~ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/02/05 08:06 PM
AVONDALE,

Thanks Avondale for your kind words. Yesterday was especially tough with it being my birthdday and H not caring enough to call until late last night. I didn't know where he was or if he was okay as I hadn't heard from him the night before either.

Of course that really doesn't help with the trust issue thing either. But anyhow, onward we go....

I'd love to be headed for Aruba with you. Sounds so nice!!! I wish you a fantastic time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
My thoughts and prayers go with you!
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/03/05 03:44 AM
HI - Question for all of you...

I've been giving thought to something and would love your input. I've been thinking of moving out of our bedroom due to my H's lack of interest. What do you think? Could this be something to get his attention in a positive way or will he just be happy to have me gone? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Thanks for your counsel.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/03/05 11:07 PM
Hey everyone!

I would of posted sooner... but my computer is still down at home, and I'm back at work now that my vacation is over... so I have a computer again, but my time is limited, because I'm at work... and guess what? That's right...

I'm suppose to be working. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Well I hope everyone had a good "New Years Eve".

My problems with my exW started right up to start the year out right. She's jacking around with the child support... os it's another problem that I'm going to have to deal with. She is already almost $9,000.00 in arrears and the State just let's her do whatever she wants.

Leah...

Concerning moving out of your bedroom and into another room. I have seen this posted by many others as well, (moving out of the bedroom).

From my stand point... I'm not sure what or how much of an impact it would have. Maybe someone else has had an experience with this and they can can give you the Pro's and Con's on it all.

By the way... a belated "Happy Birthday" to you.

I'm pleased to hear that your going to take a positive stance and move forward, regardless of what your "H", does or doesn't do. That's a good move on your part.

avondale...

You probably have already left... but have a grat time... you deserve it.

Hope everyone else is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/04/05 01:11 PM
Hi all! Happy New Year.

Avondale: I hope you stayed busy during the holidays. You needed to keep your mind busy. Aruba, Great start. What better way to take a new start? All we have are our memories from our past.

Leah: Do what you think is best? As Wallace has said, everyone's situation is different.

Wallace: Soooo, I am going to wager that by September you will be hitch. I am going to stop poking fun at you because I may have to end up eating my words. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Me: I had good holiday and New Years.

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/05/05 06:49 AM
Petvet,

Eating your words... Does that mean we may be soon be hearing wedding bells from YOUR direction? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Wow! What big news to start the new year with!

I think it would be great for you and buddy to become official. I wish you the best.

Trusting Him, Relady , Avondale, and Wallace,

Hi All! Hope your having a good trip Avondale.


Wallace, it's always good to hear from you. Hope the computer situation gets fixed before long. Sorry to hear about the child support thing. Hopefully this will be resolved soon too!

Trusting Him and Relady, I miss hearing from both of you. Hope your both doing well.

ME,

I decided to stay where I am, bedroom wise that is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm still trying to move forward in other areas. I'm praying for a miracle in 2005.
Take care all!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/05/05 09:25 PM
Hi All,

Petvet...

As far as me getting hitched by September... you might probably win that bet. We are looking at sometime around July to take the "BIG" STEP".

I've been reading between the lines on some of your posts... and I might wager that you may be in line for following in my footsteps. I think Leah may be on to something here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Leah...

I'm glad to here you decided to not move out of your bedroom. I think when you get to the point you can't stand being in the same room as your "H"... bedroom included... it's time to call it a day and finish the task at hand.

I know you have worked a Plan B., and If your sitch doesn't get any better... it will be time to make a decision on how much more your willing to put up with. I think if things don't get better... it's just of matter of time.

Me...

Well it appears that my child support issue is taken care of. I also concluded one of two parts of my IRS troubles. I won this round... the big one is still to come.

Well I hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/06/05 09:38 PM
Just checking in and couldn't resist posting. Weather in Aruba is great. It's definitely the best caribbean island I've ever been on.

Leah, stay put for now. I'll write more later when I get back.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/07/05 10:22 PM
Hi All,

avondale...

Glad to here your having a good time in Aruba.

It's cold, and snow here where I am. I could use some warm sunshine right about now.

Well I hope everyone has a nice weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/08/05 02:44 AM
HI - Looks like I am back. What a week :eek

Soem of you posted on my separate thread about the scum who is stalking my daugter.

Now, today, my daughter said " Mom, you need to listen to Dad's message on my cell phone. I don't think he knew it was on.

The message is WH arguing with OW on where they are going to staY tonight - which hotel. OW was supposed to be out of the picture, but I had this gut feeling. God sure made it plain what was really going on. WH is out of town on "business" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

I waited until about 7PM to call his cell phone ( I wanted to be sure that he was probably having dinner) and left this message on his cell phone. WH, that was a heck of a message to leave on YOUR daughter's cell phone - you & OW arguing over what hotel you'll stay at. DO NOT Call me until I call you."

I had already contacted my attorney & set an appointment for Monday morning. Originally I planned on going through with the legal separation I had started in late 2003 but in looking at the circumstances now, it might be better for me to get a divorce.

This is not what I wanted but I can face what is going on with dignity knowing that I have done everything in my heart I knew to do.

Keep me in your prayers,

D.
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/10/05 05:17 AM
O M G !!!! THis is very brief , I'll write more later...

WH was home when I came in from Church tonight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
We talked, really talked as friends. WH is talking DV, he doesn't even really know what he wants, but he wants to be a Dad to our kids, and talk about what makes sense for us.

He met with OW this weekend thinking maybe she was it, but it wasn't.

I haven't seen him like this for a long, long , long ( did I say long) time.

HE said that neither of us were happy & havn't been for a long time. That true.

I told him that I went thru the pain, grew, love myself and know how to love now. He admitted that he didn't.

All in all I told him I would be a friend, and if we didn't work out it wasnt what I wanted but I would be OK because I had a God who would get me through anything.

Gotta go,

I'll post more when I get a chance,

D.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/10/05 07:59 AM
Hey All,

It sure sounds like everyone is starting the New Year off with a bang. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

Don't forget to take good notes in Aruba, I'll be going in July and understand it's best to stay right on the beach. Enjoy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Petvet, Wallace

Let us know in plenty of time about the weddings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> The ladies here will need two separate dresses! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

WGTT

Hope everything works out well for you. What a message to be heard by your daughter. How did she take it?

Leah2be

Take your time and stick with God. He will never allow anything to 'blind side' you. Don't make any emotional decisions unless you are sure you hear God. My motto is, 'if you don't know what to do, do nothing' God sees your situation and once He gets everything in place, you'll know.

Me

It's been raining here for the last 3 days and I decided to work from home. It even snowed 20 miles North of me, near the mountains. When it gets to my level, I'm headed somewhere else. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/11/05 01:04 AM
Relady - I have many great things to say about Aruba - do you have a place to stay yet? Or is this where your timeshare is? I am definitely going back this year, if the stock market will allow it! I hope you’re staying dry!

WGTT - I’m sorry to hear about your H. It’s interesting to that he realizes OW isn’t “it” and that he doesn’t know how to love. We all know what he needs it the Lord - who created love in the first place. The example you gave him of your growth while he’s been going through his “stuff” is excellent. You’ll be in my prayers; please keep us posted.

Petvet, Wallace - You know, Relady is right. We might need to buy two dresses. Actually, I’m not totally joking. I would be glad to go to the wedding of either (or both) of you.

Leah - My advice to stay put is based on kicking hubby out of our room once I found out he was in daily phone contact with OW. I think it would make your H think “he’s free” and IMHO, could quite easily make your situation deteriorate even more. It’s more of a mentality thing - I know you’re struggling with the mentality of sharing a bed with someone who acts like your brother. Hopefully you can hold on a while longer without damaging your own emotions and soul structure.

Trusting - Are you doing ok? Anything new with you?
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 01/11/05 03:46 AM
Avondale

Glad you had a great time. Hearing you talk about Aruba made me take a quick trip by the local travel agency. Being that it's right next to where I eat lunch each day it was pretty easy. Some of those trips look AWESOME and I even believe within my budget. The children and I might be making a trip this fall to one of those spots if the hurrican season appears to be an easy one.

Leah2be

My heart and prayers go out to you each day.

It is good to hear that there is some love and respect from your Husband and I have to be honest...I am torn as to what to say or even speak about.

There is a part of me that still misses my former wife and the security of an intact family. But...there is also a part of me that is beginning to enjoy the peace and joy that has come into my life since leaving the so called hot-bed.

I watch the positions that our children have been put in and it causes concern in me for your children. While they are quite resilent they still experience and feel a lot of hurt that I feel none of us can really put into words. I see it daily in my children but I also see promise for them too.

Relady has the best advice. Do what God tells you to do.

Wallace and Petvet

Wedding Bells?

I can say that it is good to think of that as the two of you have carried a lot of us through the pain and frustration that each of you have experienced over the last several years.

It gives us hope that there may be someone in our futire too.

Me

I invited several people over for dinner. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

For me that was a huge step. I have always been plagued by thought of being less that others and this divorce has not helped in that matter. Since I've lived here alone I often thought that the hosue is not good enough, I don't have enough money, wrong decorations, not enought decorations (but hey, it's getting better, I manage a pictire her and a lamp there and one day it might be a wonderful home).

But I stepped out and invited 5 people over for Dinner. I cooked the entire meal, set the table (and the ladies in the group were impressed if I say so myself) that i could actually set a tble and get the dinner forks and salad forks in the right place. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Even had cute napkin rings with cloth napkins and my absoutely best china out. All 6 sets of it.

All I can say is that it did wonders for my self-esteem and my own sense of self worth. I can do it! I can entertain other people without a wife to do all the planning and setting of tables.

New...in my life? Let's just say that I've had several calls from my former, all accusing me of one thing or another. And not once did I raise my voice, respond in anger or let her push buttons that once would give her a raise in my emotions. She was one very irate woman by time she got off the phone.

And to top it all off. Last Thursday as me and the 2 daughters were leaving a resturant the other night guess who was coming in. OM #2 and his wife. There was no way to avoid seeing them or getting out of speaking (not that I wanted too) to them.

As OM walked in the door I greeted him, extended my hand and grabbed his for a handshake. Told him I hoped that he and his wife had a wonderful Chritmas and New Year. He did shake my hand but never spoke. I then hugged his wife and told her the same. She raved over how much the girls had grown and how much the oldest looke like me and the younger like the former and we parted ways.

As I guessed, early the next morning I got a call form her. She said that it was the quitest dinner her and husband have had in quite some time. Bear in mind that while she and I have seen and talked to each other since all the crap hit the fan her husband would never agree to talking to me in person so this was the first time that he has seen me since he and wife were found out.

She said I handeled it quite well and wanted to know how I felt about seeing her husband. I felt fine I told her. Absoutely no anger or ill feelings toward him. She felt that his silence stemmed from his never asking me for forgiveness even after the subject was brought up by her and their Pastor. Guilt maybe? No idea here but I know that I only wish each of them the best in their future.


God bles each of you and I pray that each of our New Year will continue to be a wonderful year filled with God's Promises.

<small>[ January 10, 2005, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Trusting Him ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/11/05 12:35 PM
Hi all,

Avondale: I'm glad you are having a good time. Nothing like sun and beaches to clear the head.

Wallace: You know something; I wish you well with your fiance. How does your gut feel? For some reason, I have a funny feeling in my gut.

Leah: The moving out of the bedroom thing is serious business. The message it sends is very damning. My former pull that mess and she used it to stuff in my face. When that happens, it means total separation from your mate.

WGTT: You have to do what you have to do. If you don't have trust, what do you have?

Relady: How's business?

Me: Just taking it easy and plowing along. There will not be a wedding in future anytime soon, so Wallace will have to shoulder the wedding burden on his own. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I believe in taking things slow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/12/05 06:13 AM
Trusting - It was very interesting to read about your recent foray into entertaining guests. I was cheering you on while I read it. I know how intimidating that can be. I have had company some...but need to do it more myself....we entertained quite a bit before H left and one thing that holds me back from having people over more often is my thinking that it might be awkward for them, because last time they were in my house was when we were happily married. But kudos to you for taking the plunge. I’m sure it will get easier with more practice! I’m very impressed with the cloth napkins, too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Were these people who you have gotten to know after divorce, or long-time friends?

Petvet - Do you have a funny feeling in your gut about Wallace getting married or about yourself? If it’s about Wallace , elaborate more to help our brother out!
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 01/12/05 06:20 AM
They were people I have gotten to know after the divorce. It seems that there are not many mutual friends that choose to hang around. Granted there are a few I get together with sometimes but it either seems or feels that most would not like to be put into a position of where they have to choose between either myself or the former. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

So be it.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/11/05 10:42 PM
Hi All,

WGTT...

I'm sorry to hear about your "H's" latest scenario.

Has your "H" said anything that might give you any indication that your "M" can be put back on track?

avondale...

If I don't get cold feet... I will let you and everyone else know what day we are planning on getting married. That way... if you want... you come to the wedding, as everyone will be
invited, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> even though she wants to keep it small.


relady...

Oh, I believe that in fact... you and avondale will surely need two seperate dresses. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Petvet...

What's my gut feel about all of this?

RUN!!!

I've been on my own now, for going on three years. Marriage is a lot of work... and my last one sucked about all I had to give right out of me.

I've told my G/F that I'm scared to death about getting "M" again. She said she is too!

I'm still trying to get her to wait until all the kids are out of the house... but I'm not sure I'm making any head way on it as of yet. There are still a lot of issues to get out of the way still.

Trusting Him...

Congrats on your dinner party!

I haven't really tried a dinner party yet. Just some outdoor grilling... I'm not a very good cook unless you like frozen this and frozen that. I can whip up a real mean frozen dinner on the microwave though. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Leah...

How is everything going on your end?

Give us an update when you get time.

Well, I hope everyone's day is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/12/05 02:53 AM
Hi - This is a quick post - I have company comming any minute.

It's wierd, but it is like the pressure is off - I said I would be OK if we divorced & he's more relaxed. He has been how I hoped last year when he came home.
- Has gone to both of YS's soccer games this week.
- He is straight and focused - I can tell
- He is working at his business and making calls talking to creditors.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
- he said he was sorry & I could tell he meant it. He has no idea how much his actions have hurt me or the kids.

I don't know where this will lead... I got the your a great Mom to our kids, but I don't want to be with you. That probably hurts the most, even though it was very obvious, somehow to hear the words is tough.

He thought I was seeing someone else - and that bothered him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> He also mentioned that I had taken off my wedding rings and I didn't snuggle up to him. Why would he care?

Thank God for MB, I know more


I will continue to pray for his salvation, that WH repent to God and that God restores our M. It's not us doing it - it is God.

We will most likely get a DV for financial reasons. Then we can get re-M if we so choose at some point or stay DV.

For me, I am concentrating on being fully self - suffcient so that anything that WH does or provides (monetarily... etc.) is a bonus. Plus I don't want the old M. It's dead. If certain things happen, then great, it not I'll go on with my life single.

gota go - company here

D.

<small>[ January 11, 2005, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>
Posted By: sunrise1 Re: Tough Love - 01/12/05 03:00 AM
widget, Im so sorry that you are still on this roller coaster. You are STRONG, and I know God will help you thru this too.

I will be in your neck of the woods in early march, maybe I can get to stop by and see you. Are you still in real estate?

Take care, I am praying for you. How is the stalker situation?
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/12/05 12:36 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: I know you are still enjoying yourself in Aruba. Lucky lucky lucky! ENJOY!

Wallace: You know I mean you well. I don't know about you, but my confidence is shot. My former use to tell me that I was not good at this and not good at that and couldn't do this and couldn't do that, so when I am told good things from my buddy, it's hard for me to take her serious because I had not been given those types of compliments before. One of my main issues about M is failure. I don't want to fail again. I am double analyzing everything. I try very hard to be a good buddy to my friend, but I still have confidence issues.

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/12/05 02:54 PM
Hello Everyone,

Glad to hear all your updates. Hope all is well.

Petvet,

I'm not sure if you read on other page, after a day or two of contemplation, I decided to stay put. Even though H is the uninterested party, I wouldn't want to complicate issues by moving. I still want a relationship with H, it's just hard to be in a position of rejection night after night.

I'm glad to hear Buddy is good to you. Please keep your heart open to her and the positive feedback you receive from her. How wonderful!

I can appreciate the lack of self confidence after being with your ex. I'm continuously working on that while living with H, who can be quite negative and undermining. I have to give myself lots of pep talks. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I wish you and Buddy the best... and I hope the funny feelings soon go away.

Trusting Him,

It was so good to hear from you. I was concerned about you and curious how you've been. Bravo for you... tackling a dinner party. I'm very impressed! I'm sure all your company were impressed also, especially the ladies. They're all going to be after you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's been great reading about your growth and maturity here at MB. How wonderful that you've not allowed former to push the hot buttons. With God's help, I'm trying to do the same.

I'm trying to let the fight be between God and H, not me and H. I think he tries to get things going just to keep intimacy far away by always having something negative to throw my direction. Does that make sense? Kinda like things are too good, so I'll find something to throw into the equation to screw it all up.

Anyhow, I'm trying to keep my focus on the right things and not get caught up in all these other issues that can throw me so off balance.

You're doing so well Trusting. It seems you're truly moving forward in life in such a positive way. I can't help but feel your children will all be just fine with you as their caring father and strong, stabilizing factor in their lives.

I've had to commit my children to the Lord also, knowing He knows all and knows what is best for them. Whether I stay married or not, I know these girls are in His hands and He will care for them. I just need to continually look to God for guidance and strength in nurturing them to their fullest potential.

I will continue to keep you in my thoughts and prayers. I'm looking forward to see all that God has in store for you this new year. It seems that happier times await you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace,

I hope this new year brings you much happiness also, whether that's in marriage or something else. You deserve much happiness and if that is to be found with G/F that's great! Just be sure of it before you say "I do". We all want a forever marriage for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

If you do wait till all of the children are out of the house, how long would that be? Does she have children at home too or just you? The children do add a whole other dimension to things, don't they? Take care, Wallace!
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/12/05 03:17 PM
Oopps, I wasn't done yet, just hit the wrong button.

WGTT,

I've been praying for you. It sounds like a lot is happening. You seem strong and ready to face the future. Keep strong in your faith. God will see you through.

Sometimes when we let go to that which we've been hanging on so tight to, that's when it comes back to us. Love has to be of it's own choice. I'm also trying hard to let go of things with H. I can't force him to love me or to work on things in this marriage. I have to let him go and commit him to God. God is much better at getting his attention than I. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I'm wishing you the best and will continue to pray for you.

Relady,

Yes, you're so right about just letting God lead the way. He is the only One who can. I want to follow Him and make wise choices. It's great to know He is in control!

How is your on-line business going? I hope well.

Did you see my last post to you? It was a page or two ago. I was asking you about your relationship with your former H. If you rather not answer, that's okay too.

I hope you're doing well. I wish you much joy, peace and happiness this new year. It seems you're very much on the road of recovery. I'm happy for you!

Avondale,

Unless I've messed up my days, I guess you're back home now. I'm so pleased to hear that you're trip was enjoyable. That's great! I hope you can take another trip like that again this year. I'd love to be a stow-a-way.

I agree with your advice about staying put in the bedroom. As I wrote, a page or two ago, after praying about it, I came to the same conclusion. I thought about the very same thing you experienced and some other things too.

It just seems that until or unless I file, I should remain available so that H will not have any reasons to confuse my position. I think moving would just send too many mixed messages, ones that he surely could read into and confuse.

I have to pray for strength each night, to not allow his rejection to hurt too much or cause anger or bitterness. I want my life to stay free from all of that. I know the enemy can really trip me up on this point. So, I need to stay strong in God's truth of who I am and of His love for me.

Thanks for your counsel. I really appreciate hearing from you and gleaning from your wisdom. I am keeping you in my thoughts and prayers and wishing for you a wonderful 2005!
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/14/05 08:16 PM
Hi All,

Worked on my computer again last night... it's somewhat working... but I've got it pretty well narrowed what I need to replace. So as soon as I get past the sticker shock of my YD's College tuition for this semester (which I just paid), I'll go out and get the final items I need, and then my computer will be pretty much brand new again.

Petvet...

You really hit on something with your last post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">By Petvet:

One of my main issues about M is failure. I don't want to fail again. I am double analyzing everything. I try very hard to be a good buddy to my friend, but I still have confidence issues.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This really hit me... as I feel the same way. My confidence went right out the window when my "M" broke down.

This is one of many reasons... I'm scared to death of getting "M" again... I'm not sure I'll make the grade. I'm not sure if I want to start all over again from scratch and go through the "M" thing again. I don't think I have it in me at this point.

I mean... I would like to spend the rest of my life with my G/F. I just don't feel like I have the confidence to know if I will succeed at this.

WGTT...

I think you got the right frame of mind concerning your sitch with your "H".

You've been through quite a bit over the last several years... and I know, that after awhile... you toughen up, after being through all the wonderfulness of it all.

I would keep with the mindset you have... put it in God's hands... and keep moving foward.

Leah...

Thank you for the well wishes... same right back at you! I hope that everything starts settling down for you, and your able to move forward... hopefully with your "M" in tact and doing well.

avondale...

Hope your having a great time, stay away from all those single guys out there running around... you might just drag one home as a memento of your trip. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> j/k

relady, Trusting Him, and anyone else I missed...

Hope your all doing well today.

Well, I hope everyone has a safe a enjoyable weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/14/05 10:31 PM
Hey everyone
Just a quick check-in. I'm back from vacation, btw! Although I sure wish I could have stayed as long as y'all thought I did <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

WGTT - It sounds like your H is still in the fog, even though he might be changing in some outer ways. We'll keep praying for him and you! Any new developments with your daughter's stalker situation?

Petvet - I'm glad you posted your concerns about failure <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I would think those feelings are normal.

Wallace - Looks like snow in your area. Are you snowed in yet? I'm glad you could identify with Petvet, y'all can encourage each other in that regard.

Leah - You hit the nail on the head when you wrote "so that H will not have any reasons to confuse my position". That's it exactly. If you need extra motivation, you can probably use that for a while.

Trusting - Your ability to interact with the OM & his wife in such a normal, non-accusatory way is a real testimony. I'm not sure I could have done that. So when you get a g/f, will you have trust issues too?

Relady - What's new with you? How are sales? Your prices are so reasonable, I'm sure that will take off soon if it hasn't already done so.

Hope everyone has a great weekend. After a week of temps 20 degrees above normal, I think winter is back to NC.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 01/14/05 11:01 PM
Petvet and Wallace

I see where the idea or thought of failure seems to be the biggest object looming in your thoughts. A while back I took the children to the Georgia State Fair and as we were walking arounf I noticed a lady wearing a shirt that stated:

You Never Really Fail Until You Quit Trying

That remark really struck home with me as I know that even though our marriage failed I never quit trying. As I meditated on that, the truth began to sink in that as far as our marraige was concerned there were areas where I could always have improved...and did...but I never quit trying. My former was the one who quit trying.

So....our marriage failed but did I NOT fail. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Actually I learned quite a bit.

I guess the question to each of you would be...

Did you ever quit trying?

If not then neither of you failed! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Avondale

I have to say that as I thought back on that first meeting I too am amazed that I handeled it as well as I did. I do remember his wife telling me the first time she saw my former she had the urge to run her over.

I've thought about that trust issue and believe that it may not be tht much of a struggle for me. There are many people, some ladies in my life today and as certain relationships and friendships grow I rarely find myself questioning trust.

I question myself and my abilities as a Father,as a potential future husband to someone, as a provider but the issue of trust seems to just be there. But then I have always felt and preached that I trust and respect a person until they prove to me that they are not worthy of those things.

Leah2be

I've thought back over the last few years of my marriage and I am joyful that you made a decision to stay in your bed/bedroom. In hindsight I see that when I moved from the bedroom to the couch (to give her that so much needed space) that things just continued to flow downhill from that date.

People do change and sometimes it takes a long time for them to get there. I would hate to think that you gave up just as the sun was beginning to rise.

But only you know how much and how long you can continue in the path that you have chosen. I do know that as we give it over to God and begin to live and love through Him instead of ourselves that things we once thought were impossible somehow become second nature to us as we grow in Him.

<small>[ January 14, 2005, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Trusting Him ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/16/05 06:29 AM
Trusting Him,

You wrote some wonderful things in your last post. I love the quote you wrote for Wallace and Petvet. Isn't that a great thought? That we're only failures when we quit trying. Well... by that definition I don't think there are any failures on this thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It seems everyone here has tried and then tried some more in their marriages. And when we employ God's help, we can be ensured of success by His definition.

I also was encouraged by what you wrote me. You have a great talent for that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I wrote down that last line because I felt it so true and so powerful. I'm looking to God to do the impossible in my life and in my marriage.

There is joy and contentment in my heart when I truly entrust things to God. I just want to stay there. It's easy to get discouraged and look at what I don't have. Instead, I want to learn to continually focus on all I have in the Lord. He has been so faithful and good to me.

Thank you for your encouragement to stay the course. I feel confident that God will continue to work all things out for good, whatever the outcome here. Although I don't know what the future holds, I know who holds my hand. It's going to be okay either way.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/15/05 07:38 PM
Hey all,

Hope eveything is well and getting a great start in the New Year.

Avondale

Did you stay in Palm Beach? I understand that is where the action is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I looked originally at private villas, but they are all on the other side of the island.

If you're not on the Beach, everything else is desert, is that true?

Leah2be

I have no idea how I missed that big paragraph with my name at the top. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Believe me, I have no problems answering anyone's question about anything if it will help. The things that we go through are not always for us, but for those who come after us. And they make us stronger in the process.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">When you discussed the whole idea of withholding, were you speaking from personal experience? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, and believe me it is torture!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I would wake up in the middle of the night to find a pillow between us; that is, if he hadn't gotten up to sleep on the sofa!

Of course, he never admitted that he actually put it there. There were times when I literally cried in my sleep. UGH! The memories of it all.

That is why I said, you can only do it with God. Through that whole time, I never felt any less about myself and continued to see myself as God sees me. Don't take on the problem yourself.

In knowing that God will not allow us to do more than we can stand, you're still there because you can take it. And just as He did for me, when I had nearly caved in from the pressure, God moved him out of the way. And it was a quick thing. I have never looked back.

When God takes care of a thing, He takes care of it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace, Trusting Him, Petvet, WGTT

Hope all is well, I'll post more later. Got to get ready for the Steelers to beat the Jets!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: WillGetThruThis Re: Tough Love - 01/16/05 03:36 AM
GRRRRR - I just did a long post & it blanked off the page! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Here's a quickie


Sunrise - Come on down - yes I am still in RE
email me at willgetthruthis@yahoo.com

Our 18YO daughter has not been bothered by the stalker & we pray he stays away.

will post more soon,

D.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/18/05 12:38 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: It does not matter how long you spent in paradise. One day is good enough for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wallace: So we are not failures according to Trusting! I feel good about that statement. We never gave up. Our formers gave up.

Relady: How's business? Oh, have you heard the rumor about NY having good prices on gems? Don't get any ideas! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> I'm jusa asking, you know for a friend of a friend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Trusting: Thanks for the comment. I heard something like that about business ventures. Thanks alot. It makes me feel better.

Leah: Do what you need to do. Don't make quick decisions.

Me: Life is good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/19/05 09:07 PM
RELADY,

Hi! Thanks for your encouraging post. Yes, you are right that God never gives us more than we can handle. Sometimes I think God has a much higher opinion of me than I do of myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

But, He has always been there when I thought I couldn't take another day. It's so neat how He does offer encouragement and hope when you're at you're lowest.

I'm trusting Him to do the same for me as He did for you. I don't want to be the one to end this relationship. I'm hoping that if H's heart isn't going to change, that God will take care of things. That is my prayer for 2005.... that God will work a miracle of resolution one way or the other. Thanks again and God bless!

EVERYONE,

I hope you are all doing well. We've had a couple of very COLD days here in Virginia. The girls are hoping and praying for snow. That would be fun! I enjoy snow days. I guess that's a hold over from my years in school and teaching. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Keep looking up!
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 01/25/05 12:01 PM
Hi all!

Leah: Many times when we feel the world is on my shoulders, I always think that this will end and the only thing I need to do is pray and wait for the dark cloud to pass. There is light at the end of the tunnel, but one has to stay vigilant.

All: I know many folks are heads over heels in snow. I wish you well.

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/26/05 02:49 AM
Hi All,

I guess everyone must be busy... This thread has been very quiet. I hope all of you are doing okay.

Avondale,

I've especially been wondering how you're doing. Are things finalized yet? You're still in my thoughts and prayers. I hope you've had a good month and that things are going well for you since your trip. Take care.

Petvet,

Yes, there is a light at the end of the tunnel...Here's hoping it's not a train coming. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Seriously, there is always hope in God and faith in Him is what carries me through all the dark times. Prayer is a wonderful gift.

I hope you and Buddy are still doing well. You'll have to keep us all posted if anything "official" ever takes place.

[/B]
[B]Trusting Him, Wallace, WGTT, and Relady,


I hope you are all doing well. I miss hearing from all of you. Write when you can. God bless!
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/26/05 01:02 PM
Leah
I haven't written cuz there's not much to say. I guess that's a good thing! Yes, my D is final, as of 3 weeks ago. In the most recent Sunday paper, they publish the names of those who had babies, bought property, and were granted divorces (public record, and the paper thinks everyone wants to know!) and unfortunately my name was there. So that made it more official. I still read MB pretty much every day, and I'm keeping current with everyone else's situations, including any pending marriages <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
How are YOU doing, Leah? Anything new with your hubby?

WGTT - You had a situation brewing recently...any update?

Hey to everyone else!

<small>[ January 26, 2005, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/26/05 09:21 PM
Hey everyone!

Well it's been pretty hectic around here. I've been real busy at work, my Dad is in the Hospital, just finishing up on his surgery to remove the cancer from his arm.

The surgery went well and he should be getting out of the hospital in about a week. His left arm is pretty well incapacitated... and it's going to be about 3 months at least before he is able to use his left arm or left hand... in fact, he may not be able to use it ever again. I hope and pray that is not the case, as he was very active up until all this went down.

I got my computer up and running I think. I still need to do a few things to it, but at least it appears to be stable for now.

I have to agree with everybody as far as the quitting aspect goes. I don't think anyone on this thread ever quit trying. In fact, I would say we all went the extra mile... to see if we could salvage what was left of our marriages.

I guess you just can't win them all.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/27/05 11:23 PM
Avondale,

Thanks for writing. I'm glad to know you're okay even with "official notices". I've seen those before and have always felt bad for those whose names were listed.

Probably, we notice more than most people. I don't think I would have ever paid attention were it not for being where I've been. So maybe only sympathetic eyes view those announcements.

Thanks for asking how it's going. It's about the same. Not too good. He is SO not with me. It's a very lonely marriage.

He just told me his plans to take his new assistant on a business trip with him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> They'll be gone two or three days. He said if I were uncomfortable, I could go along. This leaves me with a decision I'd rather not make.

How I wish he would be wise enough to not even consider such a thing. I really don't want to be their babysitter. Most of the time, I would be the third wheel. He obviously doesn't really want me there. I think it would feel very awkward. I'm afraid H will never get it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I'm trying not to be discouraged but it's just more of the same disrespect and disregard for my feelings. I'm just not sure what my response should be.

Anyhow, I'm going to continue to look to the Lord for wisdom and strength. I know He is there to help. I need to trust more during the tough times. Thanks for caring.

Wallace,

Sorry to hear about your father. I will pray for him.

I'm glad you have your computer fixed. I know that can be a major undertaking.

Hope you and your girlfriend are doing well. Take care.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/28/05 04:09 AM
Hey Leah ,
Thanks for your kind words about the newspaper notice. I admit I’ve read them before it was my turn to be written up. So far, only 2 ppl have remarked about them, not unkindly, just noticed it.

About your husband's business trip...why NOT go along? Yes, you'd be the third wheel at work-related functions, but is it pride that's keeping you from not going? Tagging along might put your mind at ease. And he DID tell you he was bringing his assistant. I bet in his muddled mind, that was a big step towards disclosure. Yes, that's NOT the way it should be, but what if he had not told you at all and then you were to find out? I agree he's being very disrespectful of your feelings, but he might be feeling he's compromising between the two of you, also. (read on below.)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He obviously doesn't really want me there. I think it would feel very awkward. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is it obvious?

What city is he going to? Is it a place that has something to do during the day? What about taking your kids and making it a mini-field trip or vacation? If nothing else, it would certainly send the message to his assistant that you are a family.
Then you said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">it's just more of the same disrespect and disregard for my feelings. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I can't help but wonder (playing devil's advocate here) that your husband is thinking that offering for you to go would be a compromise. Is it even possible in his way of thinking that this is what you want (to be with him on this trip)?

Just some food for thought here. These things might be thoughts you've already played through in your mind, and we're getting the condensed version here on the thread. If there's any way we can help, you know we'd be glad to do it!
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/28/05 07:16 PM
Avondale,

Thank you so much for writing. You made some excellent points and I appreciate you playing "Devil's Advocate". I need different viewpoints beyond my limited thinking. I read your post right before I walked out the door, then thought about what you had written all morning.

You asked some valid questions. I'll answer them the best I can and I'd appreciate your feedback as to whether I'm thinking straight or not. You asked "Why not go?"

1. I've learned the hard way that if anything is going on with H and assistant, my going on the trip isn't going to change anything. H will do as he chooses. The past has shown me that on several occasions when H chose to be in contact with OW on our trips away.

On our anniversary trip, that ended up including D-Day, H was off with OW while I was worried sick about him in a lonely hotel room. After everything came out, I discovered "business trips" were not all business, even when I went along. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

2. H has been very disrespectful and unkind in the past month. Not consistently, of course, but some pretty negative things have been said and done lately. Being with him as he currently is is not a pleasant experience. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

3. If H actually wanted me to go, I would. When he told me about the trip and said I could go along "if I felt I needed to", I asked him if he wanted me to go. He replied, "Only if that helps you to be more comfortable. It wouldn't be for my benefit." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

In the past, he has stated numerous times that he doesn't like me coming along on trips with him. He's given me several reasons for this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It's no fun being with someone who doesn't want you with them.

4. H and assistant have already formed a "mutual admiration society". He thinks the world of her. He once again is looking to someone else for the admiration he so desperately needs. He won't allow me to fill this need.

Because they have the business goals and conversations going on, I'm definitely on the outside of the loop. I'm thinking a seven hour car ride doesn't sound that comfortable or interesting.

So, Avondale, and anyone else....Am I thinking straight or do I need to take a different perspective on this thing?

I do agree that H was trying to somewhat put a compromise out there. And because of this, I guess I can't complain too much. I'm just not sure going along would make me feel any better about anything.

Thanks again for sharing your perspective. I'm still open to the idea of going if I come to feel it is the wisest choice. Maybe with time, I'll change my thinking. Or after another thoughtful provocation from you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope you have a nice weekend Avondale. Thanks for being a friend through all my little dilemas.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/28/05 11:32 PM
Hi All,

I can see by reading the posts that this year is off to a bad start emotionally, for me as well!

We are closer to each other than we think! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just the other week, I was thinking of calling my X just for the sport of it and see just what he is up to. Yikes!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It was one of those days where the enemy trys to convince you that you are a failure. It almost worked!

Avondale

I understand how you feel. They don't publish the official notice in the paper here. It's worst, after six months we have to take an additional paper to the court house for the judge to sign to finalize the divorce.

You'll have relapses, but you'll recover much faster as time goes on.

Leah2be

I agree with Avondale. I would go and I would enjoy it!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He just told me his plans to take his new assistant on a business trip with him. They'll be gone two or three days. He said if I were uncomfortable, I could go along. This leaves me with a decision I'd rather not make.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why in the world would you not go? To prove to him that you are comfortable with him going? Your husband knows you very well and he is using that knowledge against you. You now have to do the opposite.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really don't want to be their babysitter. Most of the time, I would be the third wheel. He obviously doesn't really want me there. I think it would feel very awkward. I'm afraid H will never get it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Babysitter, Awkward, Third Wheel First just get rid of that vocabulary!! Don't allow yourself to stay in that position. First of all, he is Your husband and she is going out of town with a married man!! Boss or not!!
And a seven hour drive to boot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Anyhow, I'm going to continue to look to the Lord for wisdom and strength. I know He is there to help. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, He is there to help, and you also have to do your part.

IMHO

Go on the trip, be confident, take your best clothes, go to all meetings, You have input, I'm sure you know all about the company. When he stares at you, stare back and keep talking.

You have to fake the confidence and give God something to work with. If you take the initial step, you can believe He won't let you fall.

Sometimes, when I'm in the mirror, I give myself a good verbal lashing. Pointed fingers and all, I tell myself all the things that God says about me. And once I get over the dizziness, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I walk out the door and feel like I could conquer the world. Try it.

Petvet

Jewelry, New York, Where do I sign up? I haven't graduated to selling diamonds yet, maybe at a later date.

Wallace

Sorry to hear about your dad, I will also be praying for him?

When is the wedding or did I miss the date? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Where is Trusting Him?

relady
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/29/05 04:12 AM
Relady,

Thanks for writing. Did you read my last post? I ask because in it I posted all my reasons for not wanting to go. I was curious if you thought my reasons to be faulty.

Lots has been happening lately. I've been writing in the Emotional Needs Forum. The topic has been about Emotional Abuse.

I have several posters who have strongly suggested I need to go to a Plan B. One of the writers is a lady we started talking to for marriage coaching.

She came to feel a separation was the best option for me. I'm still struggling with this, to say the least. I don't feel peace about doing that, at least at this point in time.

It might come to that if things continue to esculate and become intolerable. God does not give us more than we can bear and so far I feel I'm able to stay. Because of that I need to be here until I feel a total confidence that leaving is the right choice.

Hopefully, I'm thinking right. I'm learning over and over again that there are 1001 ideas out there on all this stuff. One has to do what they feel is best and right in God's eyes and let a lot of other stuff go. A tough thing to do at times.

Anyhow, thank you for sharing your perspective. I still have time to change my mind. The trip is a month away. Lots can happen in that timeframe. In fact, lots can happen in a days time around here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope you're doing okay. It's good you stood strong against the old temptations. I understand those "pulls" all too well. Keep being strong in the Lord. He will see you through.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/29/05 04:26 PM
Leah2be,

Go back and read my post again and you will see that not only did I read your last post and IMHO all your reasons were faulty! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/29/05 07:26 PM
Relady,

All of your responses were addressing my first post to Avalon about not wanting to be a babysitter etc. I'm talking about my last post that list four specific reasons that I don't want to go.

Summary:

1. It wouldn't prevent or discontinue anything.
2. He doesn't want me to.
3. He has been very unkind and disrespectful.
4. He doesn't include or allow me to be involved in any business dealings. He maintains it's HIS business,not ours.

Those were the condensed version of the reasons I'm talking about. Any thoughts of those? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 01/30/05 01:39 AM
Leah2be

Ok, let's see:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 1. I've learned the hard way that if anything is going on with H and assistant, my going on the trip isn't going to change anything. H will do as he chooses. The past has shown me that on several occasions when H chose to be in contact with OW on our trips away.

On our anniversary trip, that ended up including D-Day, H was off with OW while I was worried sick about him in a lonely hotel room. After everything came out, I discovered "business trips" were not all business, even when I went along.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If he and the OW have that much nerve, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I would probably confront them both and then I would take the car and drive home. I would still go and handle things different from the way you have before. It will probably include getting a little 'confrontational'.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">H has been very disrespectful and unkind in the past month. Not consistently, of course, but some pretty negative things have been said and done lately. Being with him as he currently is is not a pleasant experience.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because he has been planning this trip and he has to figure out a way for you not to go.
so go!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If H actually wanted me to go, I would. When he told me about the trip and said I could go along "if I felt I needed to", I asked him if he wanted me to go. He replied, "Only if that helps you to be more comfortable. It wouldn't be for my benefit."
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He already said you could go along, why not take it at face value and not ask any more questions. Tell him you feel a need to go!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> H and assistant have already formed a "mutual admiration society". He thinks the world of her. He once again is looking to someone else for the admiration he so desperately needs. He won't allow me to fill this need.

Because they have the business goals and conversations going on, I'm definitely on the outside of the loop. I'm thinking a seven hour car ride doesn't sound that comfortable or interesting.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His business goals determine your future as well. Are you saying you don't know anything about the business? Why are you on the outside? If that is the case, may I suggest you read everything you can find about the business. Are you employed outside the home? If not, start showing up at the office and finding things out. then go and talk

I might add, that all of these things may force him to make up his mind on what to do, leave or stay. If you are ready to deal with that, then do those things, if not; don't.

Once, my X said he was going out of town for job training. I said, OK, where are you going, I'll make my own reservations and go to. He never went, I think it was a test! I never really knew if he had an OW, he was always home on time, home on weekends, he really had a terrific game plan if I had not had a relationship with the Lord because I knew something was wrong, but not sure what. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I did plan A till I was blue in the face prior to that. Then when I couldn't take the emotional abuse, I challenged him at every turn. He finally left one day while I was at work and I never called or talked to him again.

WS don't like changes, especially when the BS gets smarter!

Disclaimer
All the information above is reliable, but not guaranteed, execute at your own risk. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

relady
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/30/05 02:35 PM
Relady,

Hi there! What you said you did at the end is what I'm currently doing. I have nothing to lose at this point.

Have you heard of Divorce Busters? There's a book and a web site. Anyhow, they have a 180 list of behaviors that I'm currently trying to implement.

Also, I've begun taking a stand against all the abuse. With God's help, I'm finding a back bone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Thirdly, I'm getting prepared for Plan B if none of the above work.

Many of your suggestions are good. Some might work with H, some definitely wouldn't.

As far as the business goes, it is highly mechanical and technical. It is an engineering firm. H is an inventor.

He has always made it clear that he does not want me involve in this business, even the parts I could participate in. I have made a point to learn what I can and try to understand what's going on as much as H will allow me to.

Anyhow, I will consider all that you and Avondale have wrote and will go if that seems to be the wisest thing based on all that is happening at the time.

Last night, H and assistant ended up working late together, then he took her home, as we're in the middle of an ice storm.

I'm wondering if this is the beginning of the end. It might just work it's way into yet another affair, and at that point, our M will be over.

I've already expressed my feelings about their relationship to H, now we will see what happens.

Thanks Relady for your suggestions. I'm going back to reread it now.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 01/30/05 03:16 PM
Leah
I have read your posts on the EN board and the responses there. I think they are in line with what Relady has said. Bottom line is, something needs to be done - either you need to shake up your H’s boat and see if he jumps ship, or you need to bail water by being more assertive - but he still might jump ship.

I have read "The Divorce Remedy" by Michele Weiner Davis and it is also very good. She's the lady that wrote Divorce Busting. Very practical. Another thing I noticed on the other board was that someone said "take one thing at a time"...it's too much to work on your marriage, and meet ENs and stop the abuse, etc. So start with the disrespect first.

You know what, if you are assertive, and stand up or point out how his words/actions are hurting, then he can never say “I didn’t know that, I wasn’t aware this was hurting you, etc.” He may not change, but he can never plead ignorance. You’ll never be in doubt of "what if I had just stood up to him/said this or that/etc." This would be one thing you wouldn't have to second guess about.

How emotionally ready are you if things get worse at home, or even if he leaves? Is it the fear of that which is holding you back? I remember when my kids were little, as parents we never threatened with a punishment that we were unable or unwilling to follow through with. It’s kind of like that with your H. You need to be ready to handle the worst case scenario (him leaving - then dissolving into divorce) if it actually occurs as a result of the consequences.

I believe you can handle more than you think you can. With the Lord’s help, you are a strong and mighty woman! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 01/30/05 10:59 PM
Avondale,

Thank you for the encouraging word. Thank you also for reading my posts on the other forum.

I'm very ready to implement more assertive behavior and have already begun to do so. I no longer fear losing H's love or affection. That has been gone a long time now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

The situation has only one direction to go. Things will improve one way or the other. I am NOT fearful of him leaving...Quite the opposite.

If his heart isn't to change towards me, I NEED him to leave. Forgive me if I'm being redundant. I forget what I post to whom. I've asked him several times to leave. He refuses. He has just as much legal right to be here as I do. He always says if I'm not happy, I can leave.

That has been a big part of the problem. H has me right where he wants me. I'm the maid and nanny and he has total access to his children. There are no financial and custody limits in his life right now. The arrangement works very well for him. Obviously, not as well for me.

That is why I am working out the details of preparation for Plan B. I know I need to be prepared emotionally, spiritually,physically and financially. It is a huge step and one that I obviously don't take lightly. I'm seeking counsel and wisdom on all the different aspects of it.

My hope is that I won't be forced to leave my home. I think it would be such a hearbreak for my girls. Hopefully, he will grow weary of this new Leah and decide to either change or leave.

I keep reading the different material on boundaries and more assertive communication. I am praying for God's help every step of the way. I want to do my part in seeking a different life than what has been. Yes, I'm ready. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 01/31/05 07:33 PM
Hey All,

I hope everyone had a good weekend!

Leah...

After reading your posts about your "H" and his upcoming business trip, I would have to go along with what avondale, and relady have stated. I also think that you need to get your "M" moved from where it's positioned. I personally would of already been in a plan B. situation when I first had d-day, but that's just me.

Nothing changes, when nothings changes... and in order to either improve or possibly destroy what's left of your "M"... your, IMHO, going to need to take steps to show your "H" that your not going to tolerate this type of situation any longer, as well as the way he treats you. If you don't... you will most likely keep getting more of the same... until it takes a turn for the worse... which it more than likely will... it's just a matter of time.

me...

Well my Dad is suppose to get out of the hospital today... but I'm not sure they will release him. He's still on shaky ground after the operation... but he seems to be doing a lot better.

G/F and I are doing O.K.. We didn't get together at all this weekend. We both had to much going on.

Well I hope everyone has a good day today.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/02/05 06:30 AM
Wallace,

I totally agree and am working diligently in changing things.

I had a really good day yesterday. In applying the 180 list, I saw some positive response to it even today. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My H called on his way to an appt. and very freely volunteered info. about his plans for the day and about business. He also said he loved me.

Yes, I know it's premature to get too excited, but it was just such a nice,positive thing and it hasn't happened in quite a long time.

So, I'm determined to continue this new stand and hope to see it bring about positive,LASTING changes.

As I've already posted, I'm also making preparations for plan B if I don't see consistent changes soon.

Please hold me accountable. I truly don't want to remain where I've been.

I hope your father continues to get better. I've been praying for him and you and your family. Take care.

<small>[ February 01, 2005, 12:38 PM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/01/05 07:46 PM
Wallace - Will wonders ever cease? You didn’t get together with your G/F all weekend? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I guess when you’re watching over both your own kids and your parents, life gets hectic, doesn’t it?

Leah - I’ve read your most recent reply on the EN thread. I think you’re coming from a little bit of a different place than the other person there, especially spiritually. Your reply to her was very gracious, though. It’s very encouraging that your H actually responded well. What items from the 180 list did you try? I seem to recall there were some that could be more immediately applicable, and others that were more of a last-resort type. You are right to not think of this too prematurely, but I know even the smallest sign is encouraging. One word of caution: Don’t jump into “reward” mode for his “changed behavior” too quickly...wait and confirm that is it indeed a pattern of change, not a one-time thing. Remember, this is the Tough Love thread! We’ll keep praying for you!

<small>[ February 01, 2005, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/02/05 12:08 PM
Hi all, sorry for not posting in the past couple of days.

Leah: I would have to go along with the other folks. You have to stop being a floor mat enabling your H to walk on you. Under the circumstances, if H invited me on a trip like the one you are describing, I would jump on it. I would be a bold son-of-a-gun. He is your H, so you should not feel as though you are a third wheel. You have given your H too much power. When WS get into this mode, they are some arrogant folks. Hey, go on the trip, and live it up on his expense tab.

Avondale: I know it was an eye opener to see your D annouced to the entire community. I have a hard time with it myself especially with acquiantances that come around that I have not seen in a couple of years. As a priest told me as I was completing annulment paperwork, s--- happens. When he told me that, I nearly passed out. Imagine that from a priest.

Wallace: I hope your Father gets better.

Relady: You seem to be very happy. I can tell the difference in you from a year ago.

Me: I'm doing good. Oh! Recently, my former had major surgery (Hesterectomy), and I got the impression that she wanted me to be sympathetic and give her some time. Go figure! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/02/05 07:25 PM
Avondale,

Just finished a long post to you, then lost it all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I hate it when that happens. Anyhow, here's condensed version # 2.

You asked what things from the 180 list I've tried. I have totally limited all questions and comments. I'm usually full of happy chatter and conversation. "How was your day?" "What did you work on today?" etc.

Instead, I've been very upbeat and happily removed. It was funny, he started asking me questions. I was careful to limit the words in response. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks for the word of caution. You are absolutely correct! Believe me, I am very much in the wait and see mode.

Thanks also for commenting about my other thread. When someone else is so strong in their convictions, it can cause you to question your judgement.
You are right to discern that we are coming from different spiritual perspectives. That indeed makes for a huge difference.

Hope you are having a good week. Thanks for staying in touch and keeping me straight. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

PETVET,

A few days ago, when I did something "right", I thought of you and my other "Tough Love" buddies. I thought you'd be proud of me. I'm finally finding my backbone. Took long enough, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/02/05 11:20 PM
Hey All,

leah...

The 180 move is a nice touch, and I'm glad your seeing some results so quickly. avondale's comment about not getting to excited about what you've seen from your "H" so far is correct and I'm in agreement as well. Keep up the good work, and if he starts showing signs of faltering... I would not hesitate to move into a Plan B. mode.

avondale...

How's things going with you?

Are you coping with all that has happened, or are you having a hard time with accepting what has happened?

Concerning my G/F and not seeing her all week, and weekend... can you believe it? I know, I know, I think it's the first time since I've met her... that we went a whole week without seeing each other.

It's been a hectic New Year... I hope it slows down.

Petvet, relady, Trusing Him, and anyone else I've missed...

You are all kind of quiet here lately... I'm going to take that as if everything is going well.

Me...

My Dad came home from the hospital the other day. He's doing well, considering what he just went through. He has heart surgery coming up, as well as another operation for colon cancer. he is not in very good shape, I'm afraid.

I'm going to try to get together with my G/F this weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> All work and no play, makes Jack a dull boy! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/06/05 11:37 AM
Petvet - I think the reason your former wanted sympathy and attention due to having a hysterectomy has to do with the LOSS she’s feeling. If I recall correctly, she was the one who really wanted a child, more than you. Now she can’t have ANY more. To a woman that’s a big deal, especially if they DID want more. Not to tell you how to feel, but believe me, it’s a BIG deal emotionally to any woman having that kind of permanent surgery, even more for one who’s still “in the market” and young enough to have more kids. What are your Valentine’s Day plans with your “buddy”? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Leah - I’m curious, does your Plan B include moving out? Whatever happened about the trip your H was going on with his assistant?

Wallace - What are your Valentine’s Day plans? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Relady, Trusting - Hope y’all are doing well. Please post a note when you can <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Me - Nothing new. Hubby (I still can't say "ex-hubby") bought a house not too far from mine, so my chances of running into him at the grocery store, post office, the park, etc. will increase 1000% when he moves in next month. Somehow I was able to not see him (by accident) during the last 3 years even though we lived only about 5 miles apart. Oh well, maybe God will continue to shield me in that way.

<small>[ February 06, 2005, 05:38 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/07/05 02:05 AM
Avondale,

I am still trying to figure out all the logistics of plan B. There is a lot involved with that. I'm seeking answers to my many practical and financial questions. I have to limit what I write in regards to all that as this is a public forum. I'm not sure if H reads my stuff or not.

The trip has not happened yet. It's suppose to take place next month. They are now talking about an additional trip they might be taking together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I feel they are spending way too much time together.

There was a confrontation of sorts of Friday between all of us. I think she knows how I feel. H definitely does. We'll see what he does with those feelings. That will be a factor in whether Plan B becomes necessary.

Interesting about your H moving close by. Could there be any desire on his part to have some casual contact with you? Perhaps this isn't a negative thing??

I'm still keeping you in my prayers. I'm sure this is a challenging time for you. The lesson I taught tonite to my AWANA girls was on how God uses the trials in our life. I used an object lesson of sandpaper and wood and talked about Joseph and others. It was a lesson for me too.

Keep trusting and believing. God will see us through!
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/08/05 04:13 AM
Hey All,

I hope all is well and that you all enjoyed 'Super Bowl Sunday". I didn't care for the commercials this year except the one where the troops came home.

Avondale

OK, girl, now you have to look good every time you step out of the house! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Do you think your H did that on purpose and is he alone? It could be that he missed living in the neighborhood.

Leah2be

Plan B is difficult unless it's forced on you and you have no choice. Also, IMHO take some time and close yourself off to all voices except God and you'll definitely have a new perspective think. Sometimes it's confusing when you're in the court of public opinion. Believe me, I know.

Wallace

Yes, what are you doing for Valentines' Day? What else is there? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Marriage?

Petvet

You are observant!f Each year my life gets better even when it is not the best. I'm learning more about myself constantly. It'd sometimes gets pretty scary! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I start school this week, so it's back to the hamster wheel! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Trusting Him

Where are you? Do we need to send the police?

relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/08/05 12:27 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: Let me get this straight. He still lives near you? What happened to the OW? I thought he had moved to another city. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Wallace: Wow, a week away from your GF. You are showing alot of guts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Your Father sounds like he is in pretty bad shape. You have cause to worry.

Leah: Keep with your plan. Someone is not happy by your moves. You will smoke the devil out into the open.

Relady: What are you studying in school again? Will you have time to operate your business?

Me: Valentines! Plenty of flowers, a little wine, and alot of love. Those are my plans. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/08/05 02:52 PM
Relady,

Good to hear from you again. Yes, I agree with you that plan B would be very difficult if I have to pursue it.

Thank you for the reminder to listen to God's opinion above all others. I have lots of people in my life with lots of different opinions on the matter. Sometimes it's difficult to discern God's will with all the "noise".

I often think of the verse, "Be still and know that I am God..." I need to work on that. It can be challenging to be still and listen for His voice instead of all others around me.

Please pray that I can have God's discernment in this situation. I really do want to do what's right.

What type of classes are you taking in school? You seem to always have lots going on. I hope it goes well for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Petvet,

Sounds like a nice Valentine's Day is in store for Buddy. Is there a diamond ring in the mix? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Have fun!


Wallace,

How about you and Valentines Day? Any special plans with girlfriend? I hope you have a great time together too!

Hope your father is doing better. Take care.

Avondale,

Just wanted to say hi. My last post to you is on the last page. I hope you're having a good week.

Trusting Him,

Hi there. Sure hope you're doing okay. We all miss hearing from you. Post if you can and let us know you're still out there.
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/09/05 06:43 AM
Hey All,

Hope you're having a great day.

Petvet

Sounds like a good time to me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

School is not new to me. I just have to figure out how to juggle more things now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


Leah2be

During the time I took to work on myself, I decided to clean up unfinished business in my life, in which one was finishing up my business degree program. After starting last year, it will probably be another year or so until I am finished. Then on to the'Masters'.

Avondale

Did your H tell you about his move or did you find out from another source?

Wallace

Come on, out with the plans!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/08/05 09:57 PM
Hey all ,
Let me clarify something about H’s living situation....as you all know, he is working on his PhD which is how he met OW. They are in a program in another state that does not require full-time attendance - it’s geared towards those who are already working in the education field and so their class schedule works around school schedules (i.e., summer school and mini-classes during holiday breaks). He lives and works in my town full-time but goes out of state to this PhD program periodically to work on his own degree. Which is where he meets up with OW (altho she has come here too, as you may recall me reading about her in the paper). Our town is not as big as Atlanta, NYC, or Denver, but not small either. It’s no HUGE surprise that he is not that far from me, as we have similar likes and dislikes as far as neighborhoods, houses, etc. His new house is about 2 miles away (different neighborhood) and he told me about it himself. The previous house was about 5 miles away. None of us should read anything more into this other than the increased chance of me running into him unexpectedly. Just means I have to make sure I always look stunning, LOL . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Thanks for your thoughts and concern!

Petvet - Buddy is fortunate to have you in her life. Yes, you can quote me on that to her, too!

Wallace - What are YOUR valentine's plans? Can you keep up with Petvet? BTW, how is your oldest daughter doing? Still with same b/f?

Relady - I'm glad you posted. I admire you for getting your degree. I guess this will enhance your real estate job - or are you looking to do something else entirely?

Trusting - Is your computer broken? I might have to give you a call! Let us know how you're doing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

EC - If you are still reading this thread, I hope you're doing OK. You have been in my mind all week.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/08/05 11:45 PM
Hey All,

Glad to see everyone posting... this thread got busy all of a sudden.

relady...

LOL... you want to hear my big Valentine's
day plan? It's not going to out do Petvet's plan's... in fact it's not even going to come close.

Well here it is... I have to go into the Dentist at 1:00 p.m. to get a lower rear molar pulled. How's that for plans. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I was chewing bubble gum and it pulled my filling out, and I bit down on my tooth with bubble gum and filling combined and shattered my tooth. It can't be saved either... I guess I can attribute that to old age or something like that, because I was just in to see the Dentist not more than a month prior for teeth cleaning... and he didn't find any loose fillings. So it's gotta be either old age, or just plain bad luck. Must be just bad luck, as my B-day is coming up, and I'm only going to be 38 this year! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> j/k LOL!

Going for your Master's are you? After you finish getting your Matser's, are you going to go for your Doctorate? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Congrats on moving forward toward getting your Degree... you must feel pretty good about it all... especially with all that you have had going on.

How's biz going for you? Real Estate market still going well? The market is starting to go soft over here. They really over built, so housing prices are starting to drop.

Leah...

I would say that listening to what the Lord has to say about it all, is the best advice of all.

Just when you think you haven't got a clue as to what to do next... that's when the Lord will step in, and make it so very clear, that there will be no question in your mind as to what to do next.

Prayers to you and your family... and stay the course.

Petvet...

I keep seeing this "M" word come popping up everytime I see a post to you. Is there something that we all need to know about? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Glad to hear that you doing well. In regards to my Dad... he seems to be doing better, but he's got along way to go... so all I can do is support him, and say a lot of prayers.

avondale...

My G/F had her exH move just about 3 blocks from where she moved to. She hated it... she was always afraid of running into him... which she did on a number of occasions. He did in fact try to get her to take him back. When she told him "NO"! He decide to move to Indiana, where he has been ever since.

So, I won't read anything into the fact that your Hubby is real close to you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> You will definitely have to look your best at all times though... becuase you more than likely will run into him... so be prepared.

Me...

Well I have been busy! My Dad is doing better (Thank You Lord!), and I just finished up on my last round with the IRS.

Guess what?

I won!

Had Child Support problems as well, as far as my exW not paying, as well as her getting the CS payments (that she hasn't been making) dropped.

But I took care of all of that, and now everything is back to where it shoud be (even though she is over 9,000.00 plus in arrears).

After I get my tooth yanked out (my G/F is going to be there to hold my hand...LOL) I am going to take her out to dinner, so she can eat, and I can suck soup. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> So it will be probably Roses and dinner for Valentine's Day for me, and my G/F.

Now that I spilled the beans on my Valenitne's Day plans... what's everyone else got going... Hmmmmm?

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 09, 2005, 09:17 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/09/05 12:39 PM
Hi all!

Avondale: I get it now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> What are your Valentines plans?

Relady: I would say that you have been taking care of alot of unfinished business in your life and doing a good job of it too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Wallace: Ouch! You are going to deserve something sweet next Monday after your dentist visit. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Me: No ring! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/10/05 02:33 AM
Hey All,

Nothing really new here for me today... just thought I would check in and say hi to everyone.

Petvet...

O.K., so no ring huh?

Does your buddy know that there is no ring coming within the near future? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I'm with you my friend, the closer I get to all of this (marriage), the more nervous I get. I think I'm still very very gun shy about the whole thing.

After the Dentist... I am going to need something sweet all right. Good thing my G/F is going to be there with me. LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


O.K. Everyone...

I'm still wating to hear from everyone what they have planned for Valentines's Day. I'm calling foul.

I told everyone what I had going on (I still can't believe that I have to have my tooth pulled because of bubblegum on Valentine's Day). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

So come on now... spill the beans everyone.

Me...

Has anyone else had this come up?

After all I have been through... I started to think about my exW today. I thought about all the good times we had... and how I wished I could turn back the hands of time and see if it would of played out any differently.

Anybody else question the... well what if I had done this? Would I be where I am today?

See what turning 38 years old will do to you!

I hope everyone's week is going well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 02/10/05 02:01 PM
Good Morning All

Trusting is still alive and kicking...at times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> . There has been so much going on lately at work and home that I've barely been able to keep up.

The dear wife's unexpected trip <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> over New Years with the new BF and all the children cuased a little relaspe in my forward progress but all is well now. Just took me a few weeks, OK, almost a month to get those feeligns of anger and frustration back under control <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

For whatever reason it seems that the children have taken to wanting to sepnd extra time with Dad. Needless to say I've had at least one if not all a good portion of the month and that has taken most of my time. But I love it! But it has kept me from here. Hopefully this weekend I can catch up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wallace said:

After all I have been through... I started to think about my exW today. I thought about all the good times we had... and how I wished I could turn back the hands of time and see if it would of played out any differently.

Anybody else question the... well what if I had done this? Would I be where I am today?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Quickly I hope...I am guilty of sometimes thinking about the what if's and turning back the hands of times. But not near as often as I did I one time.

I personally think that it is a good sign that you can think and remember the good times that you had together. That's a far cry from many others who are still stuck on all the bad or wrong things that went on in the marriage.

Keep those thoughts, she was a huge part of your life...both the good and the bad and it is us who choose which thoughs and times we remember. I do prefer the smiles and pleasent thoughts that come along rather than the ones that cause the anger to stir up again.

<small>[ February 10, 2005, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: Trusting Him ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/10/05 07:18 PM
Trusting - Great to hear from you! I am glad you’re still around here. We need your encouragement and input!

Wallace - OK, you asked for Valentine’s plans. Mine are about as exciting as yours (probably less, since I don’t have a significant other <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> ). I have been summoned for jury duty that day. I hope that at least I can get an interesting case. Then of course, since I am not dating (nor do I intend to) I will probably hide at home, LOL so no one will see me date-less.

As for the deeper question about thinking about ex’s....I agree with Trusting - that it’s probably healthier to be thinking about the memories in a positive way than being stuck on the negatives. For the most part, I have been able to dwell on the good memories, and for that I am very grateful. But as in all things in life, we sometimes wonder “what-ifs”. I am confident that I am in God’s hand and he has a plan for me, regardless of where my thoughts go.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/11/05 08:25 AM
Trusting Him,

So glad to know you're okay. I'm sorry you had the trip to deal with. I've often thought how even if H and I were divorced, I'd probably still be dealing with those feelings of rejection.

I guess as long as you have contact through children, the potential to feel those emotions is still there. Or maybe it's just based on the fact that we still care. I don't know.

I'm so glad you've been able to have the children so much this past month. Even though it's busy, it's wonderful that you can be such a big part of their lives.

Thanks for letting us know you're still out there. We miss you and all your words of encouragement when you're not here. God continue to bless you!


Wallace,

When is your birthday? I hope you have fun turning 39 again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I'm glad to know at the end of the dentist visit, there will be someone there to share Valentine's Day with. I'll be praying that your visit with the dentist goes okay.

I'll be spending V-Day with my girls doing all the usual Mommy things. We might all go out for dinner.

Avondale,

Just know that even if there is no signifigant other, you are very special and loved deeply by God. You also have the respect and love of many others, including the "Tough Love" gang. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ February 11, 2005, 02:28 AM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/11/05 10:57 PM
Hey All,

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who has these feeling of the Ex pop-up. I thought I was losing it there for a moment.

Trusting Him...

It's good to hear from you, and thank you for the uplifting post.

Sorry to hear that you had to deal with your former's antics during the Holidays. I just roll with the punches when stuff like that comes up. Your doing the right thing though... spending time with your kids is good for you, as well as them. My kids have been a life saver for me during all of this, as well as a lot of prayers. Your children will remember who was there for them... I know this from first hand experience. Keep up the good work.

Stay in touch more often... it's good to hear from you.

avondale...

I'll trade with you. You can go to the Dentist in my place, and I will take your place. The thought of getting my tooth yanked out just drives me crazy. There's not much that scares me... but I'm not a fan of having this tooth yanked out. I feel trapped when they are hovering over you, and they won't stop for you to take a drink of water or a breath of fresh air.

Leah...

Sounds like your going to have a pretty quiet Valentine's Day. It's good that you have your kids as well. To me... it's always been God and Family first above everything else. Stay with that frame of mind and you will be just fine.

Thanks for the prayers... as I can use all the help I can get. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Petvet, and relady...

All right you two... you still need to spill the beans here as far as Valentine's Day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Well I hope everyone has a very nice weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 11, 2005, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/12/05 01:20 AM
Hey All,

The weekend is here already! Hope you all have a wonderful Valentines' Day.

Trusting Him

Glad to know we didn't have to send the police <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> glad to have you back and to see you're spending more time with your children.

Wallace

Ok, I'm saying Uncle!!

My valentines day plans are as follows: I'm going to curl up with a good book, Oh, I don't know, probably Accounting or Marketing, haven't decided yet <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

At the same time drowning myself in the only chocolates I got!(From my title company) It says "thanks a million"!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> And burning an 'Apple Pie Candle' because I don't know how to bake one. Happy Now! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Avondale

We need to take pointers from the guys!!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

relady
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/12/05 07:47 PM
Avondale

When you get an opportunity, please let me know what part of Aruba is best, access to restaurants, shopping, etc. I'm still trying to decide between Aruba, Freeport, and a Jazz festival in Bermuda. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/12/05 10:39 PM
Hi Relady
I wasn't sure if you wanted me to reply here, but since I'm not sure the email address I have for you is current, I'll give the travelogue in this space. Sorry, everyone, for being off topic! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I just realized an unknown fact: In "real life", you and Leah have names of roommates on a famous TV show. Just a little triva to keep everyone else curious, LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

As for Caribbean travel: Bermuda is nice but their weather is similar to the Eastern US. Whatever temperature NC/SC is having, Bermuda is having something close (except no ice). It is NOT a warm place to be, IMHO. I used to be married to someone who has played at several jazz festivals there on different occasions. It's a British island so it's usually pretty clean. Is the jazz what interests you? If so, you might find similar caliber music at another location here in the states.

Freeport is OK. Very busy. IMHO, the Bahamas are a very tourist-y vacation destination because it is not too far from Florida (thereby being less expensive) and also is more of a "rip off" in the usual tourist ways (expensive T shirts, souveniers, etc.). It's a busy port for cruise ships, if I recall.

I would recommend one of the other islands-- St. Kitts, St. Croix, Aruba, etc. There are 2 websites, Arubaand Aruba BB that are good resources. I'm sure a little internet research would help you with the other islands too. Didn't you used to own a timeshare or something in the Caribbean? I can give you more specifics off this thread.

I hope this is of some help to you. One last piece of advice, DO NOT GO ANYWHERE, during Spring Break or the week or two after school gets out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ February 12, 2005, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/13/05 01:14 AM
Thanks Avondale,

Yes, my exchange timeshare has been in Freeport for the last 4 years, I'm tired of those islands.

I've been on several jazz cruises and enjoy smooth jazz. I've been to the Capitol Jazz Festival, Newport Jazz Festival, etc.

**edit**

Thanks,
relady
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/14/05 12:17 PM
Hi all! Happy Valentine's Day to all the lovely sweethearts on this thread. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Avondale: Stop feeling sorry for yourself. If I were you, I would go to a nice restaurant and have a nice meal and wine. Just take in the scenery. Enjoy it while you can because I don't expect you to be unattach for too long. Go for it!

Relady: The same goes for you. As far as travel is concern, I hate the Bahamas. It is a tourist rip off. Buddy swears by St. Kitt. She owns a condo there. It is very expensive to travel there but very lovely. We are planning on going to Hawaii with the kids this summer. Can you give any tips?

Wallace: If I were you, I would goner all of the sympathy I can from your GF after your dentist visit. With all the pain you will be feeling, you will need extra loving to ease the pain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Oh! I have a different tact on thinking about good times from old relationship. I try to take the negatives and improve on things in this relationship and take the positives and enhance those things as well. It's all about making this relationship better than your old one.

Trusting: Glad you are back. I know it can get to you when your former and new beau and kids are acting like a family. All you can do is turn the other cheek and keep moving forward with your life.

Leah: Praying helps alot.

Me: The love ship has come to port and I am jumping on it. NO rings! She knows it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/14/05 01:33 PM
Happy Valentine's Day !

Hi to all my wonderful unseen friends! I wish you all a great day! Wallace, I hope all goes well at the dentist. Petvet, have fun with Buddy! Trusting, hope you have your kids with you today. Relady and Avondale, may it be a special day for you.

Thanks for all your on-going help and support. You're a great bunch! With love to all of you!
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 02/14/05 02:29 PM
Happy Valentine's Day !

Yes, I do have the children today. Well...at least after school anyway. So no Grand plans except for work until later today.

Then it's just an evening with the children and possibly a movie since they have not decided yet what they would like to do.

PetVet

I can't really tell if they act like like a family or if the wife just wants/desires them to be a family. It is definately all one sided when it comes to the responsibility of his kids.

But...it going to be a wonderful dau so I'll hold that topic for another day. Just remind me to ask about severely lopsided relationships. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Congrats on the "Love Ship" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

<small>[ February 14, 2005, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Trusting Him ]</small>
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/14/05 07:33 PM
Happy Valentine's Day to All! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I hope everyone has a wonderful and positive day.

Wallace

Take my advice, ask the dentist to put you to sleep and when you wake up you have to connect a few dots on a paper and go home!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> You'll never know what happened.

Me, I can't stand the noise that goes with it, so I pay extra to go to sleep if it is anything serious!!

Petvet

Advice well taken. What part of Hawaii are you going to?

relady
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/16/05 02:45 PM
Avondale and Relady,

Hi! Just wanted to let you know you both have mail.


Wallace, Trusting Him, and Petvet,

In case you want the answer to AVONDALE'S trivia question, you can e-mail me at Leahlike@yahoo.com. Hope you guys are all having a great week!
Posted By: Stacy816 Re: Tough Love - 02/16/05 07:56 PM
Hello everyone,
I am a new member to this board and have posted my situation under Is all hope lost?
I started reading the first few pages of this thread with Petvets story. I am where you were in the beginning...hurt, confused, hopeless and very much want to reconcile my marriage. Its been a month and I still cry every night..whenever I see him, I just want to wrap my arms around him and tell him i am sorry for the hurt I caused on him, but he is hurting me even more by abandoning me and his children for a woman he met on the internet and is "making him feel good about himself" I still feel there is something there between us, and he is trying to convince himself that he doesn't love me. I still haven't received any D papers he threatens me with when he gets angry with me for something. He still asks how I am doing when he calls for the children. One night he called and I was on the phone so it went to the voicemail he started out with "Well, I am assuming you are talking to your other people again and trying to get your situation going.." Why would he care? Does it sound like he is still thinking about it? Is reconciling still an option? i still love him s much. What are Plan A and Plan B?
Any advice and people to talk to would be wonderful since I am going through this pretty much alone.

Thanks,
Stacy
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/17/05 08:05 PM
Hi Stacy,

Welcome to the boards. So sorry you find yourself here, but this is a good place to turn for encouragement and help. I didn't find this site until later in my journey and I often wished I had known about it sooner. I wonder if it could have made a difference in my life. So it's good you're here now.

It would probably be very helpful to you to read all the different info. under the forum home and under concepts. There is much info, here and much to learn.

Condensed Version Of Plan A- To refrain from "love busters" and treat your wayward spouse with respect and kindness. Attempt to know and meet your husbands needs. Be the best possible wife you can be.

Condensed Version of Plan B- Total separation from the wayward spouse.

I am so sorry you are hurting and in so much pain. Please know you are not alone. I will go read your other thread so I can know more about your situation.

As far as, is there hope for reconcilliation, I believe there is always hope. Even if your marriage isn't recovered, you can recover. There is always hope in God. Although Petvet's story didn't end with reconciliation, he is now happily involved with his "Buddy".

Take care Stacy and God bless you!
Posted By: Stacy816 Re: Tough Love - 02/17/05 10:28 PM
Thank you for your reply Leah. I have noticed from the posts on this thread how encouraging and helpful everyone is. that is one of the main reasons I posted here. I am pretty much going through this alone..where I live I haven't any other friends and the friends we shared together has kind of sided with him.
I really am willing to give my 100% to save this marriage. I think my first mission will be the toughest and that is to leave him alone..he needs time to heal. He's angry at me and I keep pushing him. But I am so afraid of the "Out of site, out of mind" he has his comfort to talk with. I don't know what to do to make it attractive for him to come back home.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/18/05 01:13 AM
Hi Stacy,

One resource that I've found in the past couple of months is the Divorce Buster's site. I wish I was more computer savy then I could post a link. If you type Divorce Busters in your search, I'm sure you could find it. It was started by Michele Weiner Davis. She has some wonderful ideas for couples with major marital difficulties.

You might be able to find some helpful ideas there. She is very solution focussed. She gives specific strategies for people who want to recover their marriages when their spouse is uninterested.

It sounds as if you would be wise to give your H some space. Try reading under the 180 section. I'm trying some of those things now in my marriage.

Hang in there, Stacy. I hope you can find the help and support you're looking for. Let us know if you have any specific questions or concerns that we might be able to help you with.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/18/05 01:49 AM
Hi Stacy
I would suggest reading all the information on this site. The "Basic Concepts" area is where you should start. And here's a link for the explanation of Plan A & B: What are Plan A & B

Then, after reading, if you still have questions or something particular that applies to your own situation, we'd be glad to help you any way we can. Or you can post on the board. You may want to post on the "General Questions II" forum, too. There's a lot of traffic there, even on weekends.

I went to your original post about "Is all hope lost" and to be honest, it was difficult to read. If you could separate your paragraphs more it would keep the entire page of typed text from being so intimidating. I know that the first post is always difficult, and there's so much info that needs to be given, but people are usually more apt to respond if they can read it easily.

Keep posting, there are plenty of people here with experience who want to help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ February 17, 2005, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Stacy816 Re: Tough Love - 02/18/05 04:12 PM
Thank you both for your suggestions. I'm sorry my first post was fuzzy and hard to understand...my mind was in a frenzy and I wanted to get all my feelings out.

I did find the section on plan A and plan B and have decided that plan A is not going to work in my current situation. I am going with plan B and totally separate myself from my H. It will be difficult since we have kids that he wants to come and pick up on weekends and calls for them nearly every day.

I have wrote him a letter telling him although I love him very much and hope that this marriage can reach a reconciliation with new understanding of ourselves and more of an effort to communicate, I am going to have to remove him from my daily life. I have to avoid speaking to him or accepting any phone calls. We need this space to focus on ourselves and strenthen our future. My hope is we can share this together. The letter is a little more detailed, but that is the basic idea.

I hope this letter is a good idea. I need to give him time to heal and at the same time I need to focus on my own changes. Changes for myself and MY own future to make me a better person whatever the outcome.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 02/18/05 08:34 PM
How to you respond? How do you react?

So today is Friday and my weekend with the children. I get a call from the youngest daughter asking if she can spend the night with her friends. Due to the rapid responses from her and giggles in the background I know that something is up. Long story short I’m told that it is OK for her to spend the night, then that no parents have said she could spend the night to the other girls are going out of town and YD could not have spent the night anyway. *hangs his head is despair*

But then YD tells me...” I do not want to spend all week with you.” What’s up with this? She said the same thing Monday evening when I picked them up. I explain that it’s not all week but she goes on to tell me “But it is, we have to stay with you until Tuesday.” OK, Monday is a Holiday that I have off and the former wife does not. I’ve always had the children on Holiday that she does not get off. So actually it’s only until Tuesday morning when I take them to school.


But my reactions to this and how to respond if at all.

It hurts to have YD tell me that she does not want to come to my house. It causes me to second guess myself and how I act or treat them. I do believe that I’ve done well as a single Dad when I have them and have always been there for them but times like this make me question my abilities. I do desire for them to be happy and have a hard time determining if YD is only testing us, trying to find a way to make Mom and Dad talk, if she is scared to leave Mom alone or losing Mom or if it really is “I don’t want to spend all weekend with you.”

I want to tell her she has no choice but feel wrong about that.
I want to say “Fine” stay with Mom. (Which of course Mom will not allow and is bad on my part)
I want to cry…cry for the hurt and frustration she must have to even be put into a position where she has to say that.
I just want it all to end. All the hurt, anger, frustration and confusion to just go away and never return.
And sometimes…..sometimes….I just want to run, run as far as I can because it hurts so much.


I know, aimless ramblings from the confused mind of a single Dad trying to do his best.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/18/05 10:51 PM
(((( Trusting )))) I’m so sorry your daughter is having difficulty adjusting, no matter what the reason. How do your other kids respond? Have either of them given you any clue as to what might be going through your YD’s mind? I would guess it could be any of the reasons you’ve mentioned - or just plain old insecurity at having to alternate between two homes. You are a great dad, so don’t question your parenting abilities. Continue to ask God for help, and I’m sure He’ll guide you.

Relady - You have mail

Petvet - I agree with your buddy about St. Kitts. Hawaii sounds wonderful. You and she will have a blast. Are you taking the kids too? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Wallace - we haven’t heard from you since BEFORE Valentine’s Day. Are you afraid to report the news of your elopement? Or have you not recovered from the dentist? I agree with Relady, I pay the extra $15 for nitrous oxide and enjoy the ride when they work on my teeth! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Leah - Has anyone asked the trivia question? LOL Hope you have a fun weekend with all the little girls sleeping over at your house!

My Valentine’s Day was actually fun. I had a blast with the two kids I babysat for. Although I sat in the jury pool all day, no one got called. So no juicy case to report. Hope everyone has a great weekend!
Posted By: sunrise1 Re: Tough Love - 02/19/05 01:09 AM
Petvet,
definately visit Maui. LaHaina is a wonderful town to visit, stay in. Take a catamaran out of the harbor to Molokini for snorkeling. Its about 10 miles (?) offshore but a great trip, Molokini is a eroded down volcanic crater. sheltered area for snorkeling in the crater part, back sheer cliff side is where they filmed some scenery for Mutiny on the Bounty.

Take a early(extremely, like 3am early) bus ride up to the top of Haleakala to see the sunrise..yes, its definately worth it and bicycle back down, great for kids if you can get them up that early.

Have a great trip

BTW..do you have any military friends? My bro was marines and he signed us into Hale Koa in Waikiki right on the beach for an ungodly cheap rate.
Posted By: sunrise1 Re: Tough Love - 02/19/05 01:49 AM
WGTT, someone told me today that residents of florida can get discounted tickets to Disney, is this true. B's sister doesnt know of any and I never heard this before but someone else agreed with the person who told me.

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 09:01 PM: Message edited by: sunrise1 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/19/05 02:36 AM
Hey everyone,

I'm still alive... in fact when I got home from the Dentist... I tried to log in and tell everyone, "Happy Valentine's Day" to everyone... for some reason I couldn't log in. It would show me as logged in... and when I went to the D/D boards... I was logged out.

Anyway... it appears that it's working now.

I wanted to wish all the Ladies on this thread and on the MBer's boards a belated "Happy Valentine's Day. Hope you guys did well as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Stacey...

First of all welcome to MBer's and welcome to this thread.

Leah and avondale have both pointed you to the right area... and to answer your question IMHO, I would continue to work on your "M", and work a very good Plan A.

If you want your "M" bad enough... by what I've read so far... it's still very much a "M" that can be restored to where it needs to be.

We have had a few success stories from this thread... maybe yours can be one as well. I would like nothing better to see another "M" saved.

Leah...

How are you making out here lately.

I know you had some turmoil concerning your "H's" business trip.

What is happening with that at this point?

avondale...

Well you made it through Valentine's Day... I'm glad to hear that your still doing well.

I was listening to the radio with this gal talking about why they should abolish Valentine's Day on the "Dennis Pragure" radio show. At first I was kind of put off as they were bringing her up to do the show... but after I listened to what she had to say... it made a lot of sense. I think she has a web site named "what men think, or something,(don't quote me on that). But she wasn't coming off as some kind of kook... she really put things in perspective, and she made IMHO a lot of sense.

One of her statements were(and I'm paraphrasing), "For some people this is the worse holiday of them all. People who are single or divorced without a mate, etc... and she just took off from there. It was very hard hitting. Well after listening to this radio show... I was pretty much in agreement with abolishing Valintine's Day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Trusting Him...

I would take your YD's comment's with a certain degree.

Kids... when they are upset with something... have a way of just laying it all out on the line.
In other words... they tell it like it is, and they don't hold back on their feelings when they are upset with something.

Now... I wouldn't take it personally, because your probably not the point of her frustration. What IMHO believe your YD is conveying is her unhappiness with what actualy is going on.
She's frustrated just like we all are at any given time.

I have had.... any one of my kids turn on me on any give day. Then the folowing day, or that same day... come back and apologize for what they have said, and/or the way they have acted.

Keep in mind... they are just as screwed up as we are!
We all need that constant stream of communication to let each other say what they are feeling. Without it... it will just create nothing but bitterness and hostility towards the whole scenario.

Listen to what all your children are saying to you.

Before you confront them with what anyone one of them are saying... say a prayer to have the Lord lead your way in the dialogue your going to have with your children... and I'm sure everything will turn out all right.

It's not you! It's life as it has presented itself to you at this moment.

Don't second guess yourself as a Father if you can help it (and yes, as Fathers, as well as Mothers... we all do it).

Petvet...

I'm I hearing this right? You and your buddy are going on vacation to Hawaii?

If that's the case... when are you leaving? Who knows... I just might meet you there! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

relady...

Business must be good... you need a partner... and a LLC type set-up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Hope everyone has a great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 18, 2005, 08:54 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/21/05 03:01 PM
Trusting Him,

Hugs and prayers for you. Please try to not take your YD's comments personally. I'm sure you're a wonderful dad. It sounds like she was just having a bad day and was frustrated with things.

My girls love their dad SO much but there are times they don't necessarily want to do things with him. I'm sure if we were separated there would be times they wouldn't want to go visit. It wouldn't be because they love him any less. Sometimes they just feel like staying home. There are days I'll ask if they want to visit grandparents or friends and they'll say "No, I just want to be home"

So, hang in there and try not to over react to her comment. I know it's easier said than done. I'm still trying to learn that lesson about not taking things personally. It's hard for me too. God bless you with a good week!

Wallace,

Glad to hear you survived the dentist. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I think they closed down the MB board on V-Day for some work on their website. I saw the notice the day before.

I'm hanging in there at home. There have been some good things happening. Overall, I think I'm doing better about letting go. Something that's necessary no matter what.

Petvet,

Hawaii!! How nice for you and Buddy! I've always wanted to go to Hawaii. My sister and H have been a couple times and they loved it!

Relady and Avondale,

Hope you both enjoyed a nice weekend. Things went well here. Lots of kids and activity. Last night the youth group came over after church. It's fun having everyone around. Things are pretty peaceful on the homefront. I'm thankful for that!

Hope all of you have a nice weekend!
Posted By: Stacy816 Re: Tough Love - 02/21/05 03:44 PM
Wallace,

Thank you for your welcoming. yes, I feel this board has some of the best advice because people here are in similar situations and know what your feeling better than anyone else.

Right now I just feel all over the place emotionally, because I'm still in shock over everything that has happened. I don't want to believe it, I still want to "convince" hubby to come back..it will all work out. I now relaize all I am doing is pushing him further away.

After reading some of the material from this site and a few suggestions from fellow posters, he is in withdrawal. I have depleted his love bank with my selfish demands (to come back and try to forget about what I did) and not tending to his needs (his need for time to heal in his own way). I did something that made him confused and left with no more loyalty to our marriage. I want to start respecting him again and changing my habits at the same time. But I don't know where to start...especially when he is already moved out and is at least 2 hours away from me?
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/21/05 04:04 PM
Stacy
I agree, it seems difficult to do *anything* when your H is so far away. Could you provide a little bit of background info? How old are your children, how long were you married, what are your current child custody arrangements? Also, have you or your H had ANY counseling (individual or couple/marriage)?

The book, "Surviving an Affair" is a good resource which you might want to get. I found it in my local bookstore but it's also available on this site. It has chapters that are applicable to both spouses and different types of affairs.

My suggestion after reading your last post is to find out what would make your H trust you again. Have you asked him this point-blank? Then, depending on his answer, is this something you can do for him? There is a fine line between giving distance for healing and turning your back on a marriage in order to personally heal. And the gray area in between is different for each person, depending on their own circumstances, stamina, inner strength, etc...(That's where we come in!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I usually suggest finding a counselor who can help if your H would be agreeable. The non-biased third party can help navigate through all the emotional minefields that you're BOTH going through.
Posted By: Stacy816 Re: Tough Love - 02/21/05 07:09 PM
Avondale

We have been married for 11 years. Our 2 children are 11 and 8. So far since nothing has been officially served, we do not have child visitation arrangements. We have talked in the past about him picking them up every other weekend, however he has had them the past 2 weekends in a row (He really misses them) and has been calling to speak to them every night.

The last time he was here to pick up the kids on Friday night. I had another talk with him (More like pleading again, but I am learning better now) and asked him if he would at least just think things over. I will give him his space and time to heal. In the meantime, could he go to a counselor in his area? He hesitated a little and told me that he has been busy with his new job, but I will see about it. I take that as a good sign because when I asked him before it was always no.

At the end of his visit he asked me to walk him and the kids to his car I asked him again if we could "date" He told me that I wasmoving way too fast..i am not giving him his space like I said and his time to heal.

So at this point, I am going to try and refrain from asking him any more questions or push.
Posted By: Petvet Re: Tough Love - 02/22/05 12:43 PM
Hi all!

Stacy: Welcome to the this thread, there are some very good folks here who offer great insight. Your marriage can be saved especially since you are at the beginning of the process. When one person wants the marriage to survive and the other does not, it's like playing chess because you don't know how the other person is going to react to your actions. One is always on the edge. Even though some of our marriages did not survive, please don't give up hope. Put forth your greatest effort, so that you know that you gave it all you had. Also, examine yourself to see what how you can meet your partners needs when H returns. If he does not return, you will learn how to be a better partner to someone else.Keep hope alive and pray for God to guide you in the right direction.

Trusting: I have been though your ordeal with a child before. It hurts like hell when your child turns on you like that. The kid made the statement because she wanted to hurt you. Why? 1. You may be viewed as the bad person among her parents. 2. Someone may be saying negative things about you to her. 3. She may get her way at home whereas you are a more strict parent. 4. She could be lashing out at either one of her parents due to the anger about the situation. 5. She is playing the age old one parent against the other game. My kid use to do it a lot. OK! He is still doing it. I always be direct but loving. My kid wants his way and has made statements similar to your child. I recommend that you observe what's going on , but DON'T LET HER DISRESPECT YOU! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sunrise: Thanks for the Hawaii tips. I will take them under advisement. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Leah: I hope all is well. What plans have you made for the trip? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Avondale: I'm glad you had a good time on Valentine's Day. Work on yourself and do single things that you put on the shelf while you were married. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Relady: What's going on sis?

Wallace: How are the choppers? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> No Valentine's Day? Hmmmmmmmm! Interesting? Hallmark, Proflowers, and DeBeers would not allow that to happen. They would send out assasins to eliminate the detractors.

Me: Valentine's Day was off the chain. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> We are planning on taking the kids with us to Hawaii. We are just trying to find good deals with air fare. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Later.
Posted By: Stacy816 Re: Tough Love - 02/22/05 04:24 PM
Petvet,

Thank you for your welcoming to this thread.

I have tried to keep on to my hope, but it seems from one day to the next it waivers. I seen H again yesterday as he dropped off the kids. I expected him a little later in the day so stayed behind at work for a bit. On my way home, he calls my cell as soon as I answer he asks "And just where are you at?" I told him I was on my way home from work. He informed me he was already at the house with the kids. I knew my uncle was there so I told him he could drop them off and go on home if he wanted.

When I got there he came up to the car and asked me if he could borrow money for his car ride home. I felt mixed emotions..when this man left he left me with house rent I couldn't afford, bills unpaid and two kids to feed. I asked him for money before and he always got mad and reminded me about the tax "incident" well now he's asking ME for gas money! I wanted to be nice and kill him with kindnes, so I gave it to him. Then he asked about some papers that i was supposed to fill out listing our assets and debts. I told him I haven't filled anything out and that I was confused because last time he was here and we talked I thought he was going to wait a while while he thinks things over. He told me he hasn't filed anything yet, he just wanted to have it with him.

Well this kind of scares me anyway so I tell him I am going to lay my intentions out on the table. I told him that I was going to do everything I could to save my marriage. If it takes going to counseling and making myself a better then thats what I am going to do. I will back off him and hope that he too goes to counseling. He got a little angry at that and told me he already said he would try..stop pressing so I dropped it. After he just looked at me and said "Alright" came over to me and gave me a hug and kissed my forehead. I asked him flat out if there was anything I could do to have him trust me again. This seemed like a bad thing to say because he got angry again and told me "Theres nothing in this world that would make me trust you again." Kisses the kids and leaves.

I feel again that its hopeless and that I really messed this up. Besides he so deep in the fog talking with the OW. She's probably the one convincing him I am such a terrible woman for what i did and I should never be trusted...etc

I don't know where to pick up again...
Posted By: relady Re: Tough Love - 02/22/05 08:41 PM
Hey all, I'm still here!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Although I should pack my bags because I swear California will slip off into the ocean if it continues to rain. I may make it to Hawaii before Petvet!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

This weather is truly unbelievable. I've been working from home for the last couple of days.

Avondale

Thank you for the info. I will check those websites and make a decision soon.

I'll check in later.

relady
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 02/22/05 10:56 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">PetVet said:
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3. She may get her way at home whereas you are a more strict parent.</font></li>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">4. She could be lashing out at either one of her parents due to the anger about the situation.</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you pretty much pegged it with those two.

She does get her way at home. When she wants something she screams and pitches fits until Mom gives in and gives her what she wants. It drives the other two batty listening to all the screaming and fighting between the two of them.

Oh! I try to get her to behave when she is with Mom but she knows that she does not have to because she has learned to get what she wants.

I had her over the weekend and all went well until Sunday when I had to tell her no. She wanted to call Mom. *chuckles* I know it's not funny but she called her Mom because she was mad at me and wanted to go home. She did get over it and typically she is pretty good.

I guess a large part of it may stem from the fact that she now has to compete with 2 more boys. It seems that the former has gone crazy trying to prove to her new BF that she is a good Mom. She always has his 2 boys with her. Funny thing is the children do not see much of him. She picks his kids up on Sunday morning to take them to Church while he stays home. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

And yes, she is angry at the sitiuation and is probably handleing it the best she can for an 8 YO.

At Last the former wants our son to be checked out by the Doctor. I have been concerned about him over the last few months as he has lost weight, sleeps, eats less andother little things in his life. She's always told me that there is nothing wrong with him and that the children are adjusting just fine. Anyway...I called his doctor to ask a few questions and was going to talk to the former about taking him. It seems that between the time I talked to the Doctor his wife made a comment to the former stating that our DS sure does look sickly and pale and that she might want to bring him in for a checkup and some bloodwork. Ack! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I say something and there is nothign wrong, a friend says something and all of a sudden he needs to be checked out.

The funny thing about that is that even the DS noticed. He asked me Daddy, why is it that when you told Mommy that I needed to go to the Doctor she said that everything was fine but when Mrs. Friend says I need to go she listens and makes me an appointment? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Is about all I can say.

He and I did talk a good bit late Friday night as he slept most of the day (Holiday for them). He mentioned that he cries when reading books that he has already read when he did not cry before. He mentioned watching a movie and said that he cried during that too.

What did the former say about him. He's anemic, iron deficenicy, and today said that he may have arthritis but would really like to know what is up with him. Duh! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

OK...enough ranting....


Pray that everyone is doing well. Stacy, listen to the wise people here as they have much valueable information that they can share.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/22/05 11:02 PM
Hey All!

I've been pretty busy, but thought I wold drop in for a moment and say hi to everyone.

I have my B-day today... so things are way up in the air.

I'll be back, and get caught up on everyone's posts probably tomorrow.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Stacy816 Re: Tough Love - 02/22/05 11:28 PM
Happy Birthday, Wallace.
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/23/05 12:49 PM
Wallace - Happy Bday to ya! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Are you 29 again? or is that 39 again? LOL

Stacy - I think you are on the right track. Continue to let your H know that you love him and are willing to work on your M as you have opportunity, but don't get into anything more than that (unless it is about your kids).

Relady - Are you anywhere near all the sinkholes, mudslides, etc.? California is a big state and I'm not sure what part you are in.

Petvet - I think that is the most verbose post you have had in a while (on Feb. 22), perhaps even since I've been posting here. It was very insightful. How is your son doing, btw?

Leah - Are you doing OK? Has the decision been made about your H's business trip - and if so, what was it? I hope he's continuing to mind his Ps & Qs while you're implementing Divorce Busters techniques.

Me - Nothing new, gathering tax info. One good thing has worked out - since my D was final at the first of the year (vs. in Oct.), I think it will decrease some of the "figuring" my CPA has to do. How does my purchase of his half of the house (and subsequent re-fi of that amount) figure into things?

Hello to any lurkers!

<small>[ February 23, 2005, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Stacy816 Re: Tough Love - 02/23/05 05:30 PM
Hello everyone

Yesterday was my first day to stop the urge of talking to H. He called for the kids and this time I looked at the caller ID and just handed the phone straight to D11 without me talking to him or asking to speak to him after. It was tough, but I know once I get on the phone I will pressure him somehow and that is what I need to change.

I also called my friend in Reno and ended up having a 3 hour phone conversation with her. As I was explaining my sitch to her and what I have been doing, I started to notice my habits. It is a very huge control issue I have. I pressure someone to the point they have no other choice but to do what I want them to. In my head it makes me feel safe in the world around me, but to the other person its just control. It has been a learned habit since I was a kid. Good thing is, habits can be changed but will take a lot of work.

I have made myself an appointment with a new counselor and decided to write down the issues I want to change about myself and work from there. I feel a little better because it has given me new hope to save my marriage. The fog will be lifted and H will see. But if it doesn't, at least I will have changed myself to a better person for me and my future.

So for today at least, I feel good. Thats how I am going to be taking it..one day at a time.

Thanks again everyone for your words of encouragement and advice.

~Stacy
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/23/05 11:51 PM
Hey All!

Had a long night last night... so if I say anything that doesn't make sense... just ignore it... I need more sleep than what I got last night.

Stacey...

Thank you for the B-day well wish.

I think avondale gave you some real good advice, and I'm going to second what she stated.

Your last post indicates to me that your on the right track with your "H". You don't want to seem needy, but on the other hand you don't want him to think that your not interested in the "M" all together as well. It's a real tight rope to walk, especially if your doing it from seperate households.

You have a good attitude about this it seems... carry that with you, and try very hard to not go into a controlling mode, and hopefully your "H" will notice the difference.

avondale...

Thank you for the B-day greeting.

If I read your post right concerning you buying your "H's" half of the house out. I don't believe you have to report anything concerning that... you didn't sell your half of the house... he did. So, it would be he that might have to claim the income on his taxes. I do believe there is a one time exemption of $250,000.00 as long as you have lived in the house for at least 2 of the last 5 years. Maybe relady can chime in on this, or someone with some good tax knowledge like Petvet. If someone says that I'm wrong about that... I stand corrected.

relady...

I have relatives in Southern California, and the are getting hammered with rain. I heard it's the most rain in that area since 1896.

Hope your not getting water logged over there... in fact I heard you might even see the sun today.

Petvet...

You lucky guy... going to Hawaii! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Hope you have a great time, and I'm glad to hear that you and buddy are doing well.

Trusting Him...

Boy! I hope your son is going to be O.K. I would keep an eye on him for his own sake. Sounds like your former is to preoccupied by playing Mom to her B/F's kids. I wouldn't let that sit for too long if that keeps up.

Me...

My B-day was very enjoyable. I took everyone out for dinner, and then I opened all my gifts. I got lots of stuff! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well now I have to concentrate on my taxes for this year, and I'm filing a motion to the Courts to extend my exW's child support. My YD emancipates in April, but she is still going to College and living with me. I'm pretty sure I'll get the extension, as well as a few other things I didn't ask for the first time around.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/24/05 01:38 AM
Wallace,

Happy Belated Birthday!! Hope you had a great time turning 39 again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sounds like your B-Day was fun!

Petvet,

Have fun planning for Hawaii. Wow, long post last time. I always sit up and notice when you have so much to say. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Trusting Him,

Hope your son is okay. It sounds as if he's going through a rough time. I'll keep him in my prayers.

Relady,

Hope you're surviving all the rain and weather out your way. Hope all else is good your way.

Avondale,

I hope things are going well for you. Sorry, I don't know much about taxes and real estate. Hopefully someone here can help you out.

Stacy,

It's very good that you're recognizing those things you can improve in yourself. That's the first step towards positive change. Keep at it and with consistency, your H will hopefully see the changes you're making.

You are walking the fine line of letting H know you're interested while still giving him his space. I had to do the same at one point in time. It was tricky. I did find that when I was strong and less needy my H wss always more drawn to me. I tried to be upbeat and pleasant even when I didn't feel that way. He respected this and still appreciates me being this way.


Me,

Things are going better at home. I'm learning about some things I need to change about me. Mostly, it's truly letting go and keeping my mouth shut. Things go much better when I do this.

In regard to letting go... I have decided NOT to go on his trip with him. He has made it clear that he would prefer me to NOT come and I think it would set us WAY back as he would view my presence as both controlling and non-trusting.

I know you all felt I should go but the more I prayed about this and thought about it, the more convinced I was that it was best if I didn't. I know my H and he would resent it.

Anyhow, I continue to pray that God will reveal truth to me about myself and about H. I'm trusting Him to do this. I'm much more at peace when I live at this level rather than playing detective and trying to control this situation.

Thanks for your help and support with this. I truly do want to LET GO.....

<small>[ February 23, 2005, 07:45 PM: Message edited by: Leah2be ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/24/05 03:13 AM
Trusting,
Please forgive me for not including my comment to you on my last post. Somehow it got left off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

When is your son's doctor appointment? His symptoms sound concerning and I will certainly be praying for him - and for wisdom for you and the doctors. This can't be fun for him, either.

I was going to send this to the jehovah rophe site but wasn't sure how often you check mail there.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/24/05 04:10 PM
Hi Leah,

Thanks for the belated B-day well wish. It's hard being 39 years old year after year. It's a dirty job I know... but someones gotta do it.

Well gotta run... back to work for me.

Hope everyone has a great day.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 24, 2005, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Stacy816 Re: Tough Love - 02/24/05 07:59 PM
Hello everyone,

Well I had a little ray of sunshine yesterday. My yearly review at work came up and my supervisor wanted to go over it a little early with me. I was nervous at first, but it was all so good..she said I am doing an excellent job and is handing me more responsibilities. She also wants to send me to a seminar to take my skills one step higher. I was also given a raise. I felt so proud, so I took my kids out to dinner to celebrate.

I wanted to so much call my H and tell him the news, but I remembered I am giving him his space and that means no contact every day. I'll just casually mention it to him when he picks up the kids.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/24/05 08:14 PM
Hi Stacy,

What great news! Congratulations! It sounds as if you're doing well. Keep up the good work! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/24/05 08:23 PM
Stacy
I’m glad you mentioned it to us instead of giving into the urge to call your H. Congratulations! That is wonderful news. And especially good since you have gone through some “stuff” recently in your personal life yet (evidently) it hasn’t affected your job performance. There are people on these boards that have lost jobs due to not being able to work, taking days off for personal reasons, etc. So we can certainly be proud of you, knowing what it takes to go to work while going through gut-wrenching emotions. Taking the kids out to eat is a great way to celebrate. Congratulations again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/24/05 11:57 PM
Hi Stacey,

CONGRATULATIONS!!! on your job review.

As avondale said... it does take a lot to try to maintain in your job while you have all the wonderfulness flying around you with not knowing which way your "M" or life may be headed.

Keep up the good work, and stay the course with what your doing.

IMHO though... I wouldn't tell your "H" about your raise. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he bumming money from you?

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: Stacy816 Re: Tough Love - 02/25/05 03:52 PM
Thank you all for your congrats <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Wallace: I do have mixed emotions about telling him about my raise. On one hand I want him to view me in a positive light, but on the other hand, he did borrow money from me and I don't want him to think that I don't need much help from him regarding our kids (child support).

It is indeed a fine line. I love my H and want to continue on spending th rest of my life with him. But what he's doing to me now, makes me want to throw in the towel and run for cover. I wish I had a guardian angel to tell me what the heck to do sometimes.
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/26/05 01:17 AM
Hi All,

Stacey...

It is my belief that you do have a Guardian Angel, but your true source of wisdon will come from the Lord and his good book the Bible. Give your situation to the Lord, and let him lead you.

Try not to interject yourself into the situation (easier said than done), and just let the wisdom and his guidance take over. If you do... you will know his presence.

Getting back to letting your "H" know about your raise... I wouldn't tell him... especially if there is child support involved. Telling your "H" about how well your doing at work and getting a raise IMHO, will not save your "M". So please don't think that's going to make a big difference in what's happening with you right now. In my past "M", that would not have changed anything in my mind.

Keep doing what your doing... your doing fine!

Don't act or appear to be needy, and just maybe your "H" will snap out of his stupor and see the light.

Me...

I have a question for everyone. This has really been bothering me, and I'm going to state my dissatisfaction about it tonight.

My G/F's exH has been calling her just about everyday here for the last several weeks. She says she isn't taking his calls, that she just lets the answering machine take a message.

In summary... he's trying to get back with her, and I'm at the point where... he can have her.

I have been curtailing my time with her the last several weeks... in fact I think I may be emotionally withdrawing from her.

She talks "M" with me... and I'm thinking in my mind... I don't ever see this happening, with this Clown calling all the time. In fact I told her... so long as he is around bugging her... I'm not even going to consider getting "M", in fact I'm to the point where I'm not sure I even want to keep seeing her anymore because of it all.

I'm going to cancel everything with her for this weekend (not that we really had any plans, because we didn't). I just need some time to think, and with her exH calling from Indiana everyday and we are in Colorado... it's just starting to work me to a point where I would just as soon walk away from the whole thing.

By the way... he's not calling to see how his kids are doing... they all have cell phones of their own.

If you all could give me some opinions on this... it would be really appreciated.

relady... I have a pretty good idea what you might say... but go ahead and really stick it to me, so I just might wake up.

Hope everyone has a really great weekend.

Stay Strong!

Wallace
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/26/05 01:53 AM
Wallace - I'll start, and Relady can finish. Leah is too sweet, and Stacy doesn't know the history... I did a quick search on this and in about 3 minutes found two of your posts about the same subject, starting in Jan 2003. Your g/f had just sold her house, and her H was calling her daily. I knew you have told us that this had happened before . I have a couple of thoughts for you to chew on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> :

1) Say you’re right, and her H wants to get back with her. If you weren’t in the picture, do you think she’d be more interested in reconciling with him? What if the Lord was moving in that direction? How easily could you let your g/f go?

2) Is it possible that she is “playing this up” to get more attention from you? (This is an old female trick that we all know how to play.) Can you verify through caller ID logs that he's calling her - and how often?

SOLUTIONS:
1) Plan to be there next time he calls and answer the phone yourself. You can say whatever you want, or tell him to quit calling. This would also verify the calling pattern.

2) Break up with your g/f because she’s manipulating you. Yeah, right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> You are just a big marshmallow when it comes to her and we all know it. She recognizes what a great guy you are and capitolizes on it.

3) Suggest she put a call block on his number. The local phone company can do this for a nominal monthly charge, and if this is really happening and she really doesn’t want to get the call, she can find a way to pay for it. That way there won’t even be a hangup on the answering machine, and the caller is notified that their calls are not being taken by her number.

There ya go. I will be interested in what everyone else has to say.

<small>[ February 25, 2005, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: avondale25 ]</small>
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/26/05 03:35 AM
Thanks for the response on this sitch avondale.

I just got off the telephone with her after about a one hour conversation.

Long story short... I told her to call me when she wanted to have a relationship... and left it at that. She wants me to choose her over my kids, and I'm not about to do that.

She's frustrated that we both have kids at home... and without buying a huge estate to accomodate everyone in order to get "M". She decided to frustrate herself, and then told me she had given up on the relationship.

I told her goodbye and good luck, as I wasn't going to choose to either have her as a wife with her kids, and dump my kids, to be "M" to her... without my kids, as my YD is still living with me as well as my OS.

My OS can fend for himself, and we talked about the what-ifs of all of this and he was in the mindset of, whatever you would like to do... then go ahead and do it.

My YD on the other hand is whole different story. She is still living with me and going to College. I'm not going to disrupt that for my G/F or anyone.

My G/F said... "well we got stuck with all the responsibilities".

Well yes we did! Because we are resposible people.

I don't look at that as a negative... but as postive. I wouldn't want to be associated with anyone that felt any differently.

Well anyway... she told me that she had given up on the relationship a long time ago because of the above mentioned statement.

That's when I told her, "I don't like dancing by myself and it's time to say goodbye... and if she ever truly wants a real unselfish relationship... to give me a call".

So no marriage for me... I'm out! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I dont' like to be pressured into doing anything... especially when it comes to getting married.

When push comes to shove, especially when it comes to marriage, and after what I've been through... good bye and good luck.

Thanks avondale for your post!

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 25, 2005, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/26/05 09:31 PM
Wallace,

Wow! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Do you really mean that? It seems it has gotten to this point before, but I certainly can relate to that scenario.(The thinking it's over for sure, just to have it turn around the next day)

I can't help wonder how the ex-H really plays into this situation. Why does your G/F tell you of his phone calls if she isn't really communicating with him? Is it just to get you jealous so that you'll want to move on the "M" thing?

Avondale's right about her suggestion that G/F can get her H to stop calling if she really wants to. If she is at all having second thoughts about reconciling with him, then you would be very wise to stay away from that entire situation. That could lead to heartache for all of you.

I totally understand what you're talking about when you say you don't like to be pushed into things. That is so like my H. I'm really starting to understand that in a whole new light.

When I back off on what I want, things are so much better around here. H will give so much more when I'm not pushing for whatever. He needs to know he's in charge and that I respect his thoughts and decisions. I'm doing lots better with that and I can see such a positive difference. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'll be praying for you and all that takes place with your girlfriend. Be careful and keep looking to the Lord to direct your path. He will give you an answer as you wait on Him. Keep in touch. We all care lots about you and want to see you happy. ((((Wallace)))))
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/27/05 12:58 PM
Wallace ,
I read your Friday night post but wasn’t quite sure what to write, so I slept on it. So many different things went through my mind.
</font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This whole scene has happened before (you calling it off, just to get back together again)</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are so very right that your kids come first, especially until they are adults on their own. Don’t let your son’s apparent nonchalance fool you - I bet he has an opinion! You know how guys are - they do NOT share their feelings easily, even (or ESPECIALLY) with parents.</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font>
  • <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are also right that you are the responsible one. I’m thankful that you’re looking at it as a positive, because that’s what it is! If our kids didn’t have one of us being responsible, Lord help our families!</font></li>
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I’m willing to bet your g/f will call you back, apologize, and you’ll forgive her and things will be back to what they were a few weeks ago. Has that happened yet? Did you totally give your heart to her? (If so, it seems it would be more difficult to extract yourself from your relationship - but maybe you’re condensing everything here on the board.)

Part of your signature line is “stay strong”. You do that in so many ways - but can you continue to do that with your g/f ?
Posted By: Wallace Re: Tough Love - 02/27/05 08:24 PM
Hi All,

Thanks for your responses concerning my situation.

This continued pressure by her wanting to get "M", and her exH has been going on now for quite sometime and it all came to a head Friday night over the phone.

Due to some of the things that she said during the course of that telephone converstion, and has said, I will not be calling her.

I don't anticpate her calling me anytime soon.

She is very upset with me because I will not commit to a specific time to get "M". After the other night's telephone conversation, I personally don't see myself probably ever getting "M" again.

Even after almost three years of being single... I believe that I am still mourning the death of my first "M".

In regards to my Stay Strong! I adopted that closing statement when I was going through my "D", and have never let go of it. It's not a part of my sig line... I type it every post I make. It's a reminder to myself and to all who wish to follow it... that it's something that you must do on a daily basis to get through each and every day.

Personally I think that I'm just going to go into a Plan B. mentality and take a break from relationships for awhile.

How is everyone else making out? I hope your all doing better than me.

Thanks for being here all.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: Wallace ]</small>
Posted By: sota_dad Re: Tough Love - 02/28/05 01:13 AM
I hope there is room in here for 1 more!! I have questions that I need help with and I hope that this could be a place I could start. I am reading the book Love Must Be Tough and I really like it BUT I'm not sure how to approach it. Here's a breif history, in November of 04 my wife of 13 years told me that she has had enough and would like to divorce in the spring. Her main reason is that she felt that I drank too much and that we have had more bad times then good in the past. I know that I drink, more then I should, but always at home not in a bar somewhere. I went into the panic and appeasement mode when she told me about splitting up. I stoped drinking so much, it's to the point that she is the one that will give me a beer sometimes. I am doing things around the house more like fixing things that she has been asking about. I am the one that does most of the cooking and shopping and a lot of the cleaning and I also work 45-50 hrs/wk. I'm not trying to justify my drinking but I do things while I drink too. We have been married for 13 years and together for 16 years and we have 3 great kids a boy 14 and a girl 10 and a boy 10(twins) she was 20, I was 23 and our oldest son was 15 months old when we got married. In the past 10 years I don't think that we have made love 50 times and most of the time I had to beg for days. 3 years ago she had a hysterectomy and both overies were removed, she had a bad case of endometriosis. She is using HRT to control the hot flashes. I'm not too sure if I'm in love with her or even if I want to stay married to her if things on her part don't change but I also know that the hormones aren't there to help me either. OK to get back on track. She is convinced that it is over and no way will she be in love with me again. I want her to go to councelling with me and I tell her that it can help us fall in love again. She wants to have nothing to do with that. Here is where it gets sticky, She has a friend that is male...she has normally had more male than female friends but this one is different, she is always on the phone with him talking about his marriage problems and this friendship really took off in November at the time she told me she wanted me to leave in the spring. I have told her that I don't think that it is health for her to be spending alot of time with this guy. My kids upset about the amount of time too. When I bring it up to her she responds by saying that it doesn't really matter because we are done anyways. I am still here because of money. neither one of us can afford to stay here in this house on our own. She thinks she can and I know I would have a better chance of making it here. I don't feel that since she wants out and doesn't want to try that I should have to leave the house and the kids to start over somewhere else. She wants everything to go her way and wants to still be friends with me when its over. My big question is what would be the best thing to do. I have always been the "nice guy" I have never told her that if she continues to do the things she is doing she will have to leave. She has already told me that she wants me to leave...will telling her the same thing she wants me to do, do anything? I need some advice!

Thanks,
sota_dad

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 07:17 PM: Message edited by: sota_dad ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 02/28/05 02:20 AM
Sota ,
Whew, that’s a lot to assimilate. Welcome to the Tough Love thread. The following post is my personal opinion/take on what you wrote. Others may post something entirely different.

You have several things going on right now. By your own admission you have had a drinking problem. This may be in the past (or maybe not), but there is a history there that your wife needs to see reversed. For example, if your drinking and associated behavior went on for ten years, your wife is not going to think things have improved overnight or even in a few months. There needs to be a track record to prove that you’ve stopped or reduced it to a level that would be acceptable to your wife. For some people, this would take a few years! I have been to both AA and Al-Anon meetings and I will guarantee that you don’t realize how your actions have affected your family and the way you all relate to each other, even if you no longer drink. IMHO this could probably have a lot to do with the other problems in your marriage, even contributing to why your wife is looking for attention from another man.

It was good that you suggested counseling. I would continue to suggest it, and even see a counselor by yourself if your wife won’t go. The way marriage counseling works is that each person can still receive help to work on themselves (thereby strengthening their relationship). But as with all of us, each person still can improve themselves.

As to how to apply Tough Love to your situation...I’m not so sure at this point if Tough Love is what is needed while you both have issues that need to be worked on.

You don’t mention what state you live in. Each state has different separation/divorce laws and you should be familiar with yours before you decide about who leaves and when. In my state, you have to live in two separate houses for a year before you can divorce. And most would agree that whoever moves out oftentimes loses out on the most custody.

You might want to copy your post and put it in the "General Questions II" forum, too. There is a lot of traffic there.
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/28/05 02:38 AM
Sota,

There's always room for one more. Hope we can be of some help to you. Avondale made some good suggestions already.

As far as separation, that I can speak to as I've been dealing with that issue the past six years. (H has left twice by his own choice as he was involved with someone else.)

Since then there have been times I've wanted him to leave, as the situation was not good for a long while. Long story short, attorney said he had as much legal right to be here as me, as long as both names are on the deed. I think that is a pretty common law but might vary from state to state. I live in Virginia.

I was also told that unless there is physical abuse, a spouse can not force another spouse to leave. So you might want to check into the laws of your state before doing anything.

I've also been told, by a lawyer, that I should not leave the home, as it would not be to my advantage later. I would give you the same advice. If your wife is unhappy with the marriage, let her be the one to leave. If possible, I think you need to stay put for right now.

Keep trying to do the right things and hopefully with time some of the various issues can be resolved.

God bless you in the midst of your difficult situation. I hope things will begin to change in a positive way as you seek to learn and grow.
Take care.
Posted By: sota_dad Re: Tough Love - 02/28/05 05:08 AM
Thank you for responding. I live in Minnesota. I know that it will take a long time to repair the damage that the drinking caused. The problem is also the affect the other guy is having on my kids. The twins hate the fact that he calls at 7 in the morning and they don't get the time they used to get with their mom. How can I handle this without making the problems worse?
Posted By: Leah2be Re: Tough Love - 02/28/05 02:47 PM
Sota Dad,

Are you able to help the twins in the morning? If not, can you respectfully ask your wife to please give priority to her children above this other man? I would ask that if she must talk to this man to please do so when your children are not there. Does she realize this upsets them?

Perhaps if you take the approach that you are concerned about your children and you know that she wants to maintain a good relationship with them... If the focus is on the BENEFITS FOR HER and the children RATHER than your dislike for her communication with the OM, than hopefully she will receive this with a more open heart.

By the way, you are totally justified in disliking her communications with the OM. To me that would be extremely difficult to accept. But you can not control her actions only yours.

You are being the responsible parent now. It's good that you are looking out for your children. They are really going to need your attention and focus right now. God bless!
Posted By: sota_dad Re: Tough Love - 02/28/05 03:45 PM
I went into work late this morning. I had hoped that the OM would have called so I could talk to him and ask him not to call the house anymore. He didn't call. This is something that I should talk about with my wife first I guess. Whenever I want to do something to "fix" this it doesn't seem to go that way. I guess I should trust God to handle this and guide me. She does know that it upsets the children but she thinks that I am the one telling the kids not to like him, they don't like him on there own. The hard part is, they are friends with his kids too and talk to them so they feed off of eachothers feelings.

<small>[ February 28, 2005, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: sota_dad ]</small>
Posted By: avondale25 Re: Tough Love - 03/01/05 06:59 AM
Sota,
Leah gave you some great advice!
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Leah said: If the focus is on the BENEFITS FOR HER and the children RATHER than your dislike for her communication with the OM, than hopefully she will receive this with a more open heart.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Given the circumstances, your wife is probably having an emotional affair with the man. Do you know if they actually see each other, and if so, in what context? Do they work together? As Leah said, you are justified in not liking her behavior but you cannot control her actions, only your own.

Another couple of questions - you said your wife isn't spending as much time with the kids as before. Why is that? Because she's on the phone for hours at a time? Because she has other things that keep her from home or their activities?

Is it possible for you to decrease your workload to something more family-condusive, like 40 hours a week? Your kids really need a stable family life right now, someone they can definitely depend on - both emotionally and physically there for them. Do you feel your current family life is in a good place, regardless of your wife's actions?
Posted By: Stacy816 Re: Tough Love - 02/28/05 10:26 PM
Hello everyone (My guardian Angels =),

Wallace: I have not been here long enough to know your entire sitch, nor do I think am I in any position to offer any advice (Although I wish I could, with the great amount of advice you have offered to me!) But I am definately here to offer my support and lend an ear to when you need to get things off your mind. =)

Sota: Welcome to the board, although I know its a tough time in which you find yourself here. The good thing is everyone here is going through the same type of hurt and situations and can offer advice from their own experiences. Leah and Avondale have offered wonderful advice and i hope that you can use it for some sort of direction.

Me: Well this Friday I backtracked before I even started. It seems I try so hard to pump myself up to what I know I should do and when I see H, it goes down the drain and I revert to the old ways,trying to reason and control him to get what I want. He ended up leaving angry again and leaving me in yet another flood of tears and feelings of all hope gone.

This Saturday I received my copy of Surviving the Affair and His Needs, Her Needs. I read all weekend..what wonderful books! They have so much insight and offer great ideas for hope. I will continue to work on myself and that is the most important step for now. He still needs his time for healing and coming out of his own fog.

When he dropped the kids off Friday, I handled myself very well. Was cheerful to see the kids, said hello to him listened to him talk about there weekend with a smile on my face and even said my "Well you have a long drive ahead of you, better get going" first! It was the first time in these past 5 weeks that he left and I didn't cry or feel hopeless.

Any other suggestions for plan A actions?
Posted By: sota_dad Re: Tough Love - 02/28/05 10:27 PM
Yes she sees him a lot. He moved out of his house into an apartment in Jan. She goes to his apartment to talk to him about the problems he is having with his marriage, she used to go to his house and talk to the two of them together, she hasn't been to his house to talk to his wife, now ex-wife, since he moved out. I talk to him too. I have been to his apartment, I picked up girlscout cookies on Saturday. The weekend before that we went bowling with our two families, less his ex-wife. My wife wants for me to be "friends" with him. I'm too sure how to take that one. I told her that I didn't think that was going to happen any time soon. I said I would be more comfortable with their "friendship" if she was a willing to seek councelling and not give up on our marriage. She said that she understood that but offered nothing. She doesn't feel that there is a need to change her behavior because in her mind it is over between us anyway. So I am stuck putting up with this as long as she continues or I can leave, which I don't want to do.
She is not spending the time with the kids in the morning before school because she is on the phone. I can't reduce my work hours because I am trying to catch up on some late bills, I'm working long hours to save a house that she doesn't want me in come spring...kinda ironic huh.
I get along really good with my kids and we have a lot of fun together, it is much better and we are a lot closer then we were when I was drinking more. But my wifes actions, mostly talking to the OM on the phone or going to see him really changes the mood in the house for everyone. She doesn't see it as an affair, just two friends talking. She will talk on the phone with him with me in the room and she will tell me or even ask if it would be alright if she is stops by his apartment to say hi. I tell her that I don't like it and I would rather she came right home. If I get upset over it that's when she likes to say that it's over wioth us anyway so what differance does it really make. What do I say to that?
Posted By: sota_dad Re: Tough Love - 02/28/05 10:36 PM
Hi stacy,
Thank you for your warm welcome...as you can see from my member number I joined along time ago. I love the books and this sight...I went through this once before, with the same but the last time was worse, she did have an affair, she still says that it wasn't a physical one. I'm not sure we ever recovered from that. we went to councelling back then but we never got to deal with my most inportant emotional need, a sexual relationship. The councelor really just focused on her. It was more then two year that I waited before she said yes. She didn't want to read the books so I let it go. Maybe thats some of the reason for the drinking? I'm getting better now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ February 28, 2005, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: sota_dad ]</small>
Posted By: sota_dad Re: Tough Love - 03/01/05 12:15 AM
well she left work early today and I went to go see if she was at the OM place. I passed her on the way. She wasn't there. I went to buy some groceries for supper and went home, she was there. She was headed back into town to buy something for work at officemax and asked if she had time she would like to swing by his place to talk anout a letter she wants to write to his ex-wife that she doesn't like anymore. I told her that I didn't like that idea too much and told her that it was hard on the kids and I the amount of time she is spending with him. She asked "what was she supposed to do" I told her she should not spend as much time with him and should not talk on the phone all morning as the kids are getting ready for school. I told her that the kids and I had a talk last night about how it bothered them. I told her that she could go and be with him if she wanted. I showed her some IM's that the kids sent to me when I was at work and she was on the phone. She folded them back up and tossed them back to me and got into her car and left. I don't know if she will be going over to his place or not but I would bet money that she does. I could use a lot of prayers for strength right now...I feel like I just kicked the bee hive.
Posted By: Trusting Him Re: Tough Love - 03/04/05 03:21 AM
It's not a total loss as at times you can get in here. Hopefully the memory thing can be worked out so we can continue on.
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