WH has change of heart? - Marriage Builders® Forums

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Ok guys as you know I had my first court hearing today.

You will never believe what happened, I'm in shock my self.

Well woke up early today, got dressed, fixed my hair (put my boxing golves on <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )and was ready to go!!! (Look really good too.) As I was driving to the courthouse I said a prayer, that the Lord give the strength to do this with out CRYING!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Well anyways I got there and as soon as I got to the court room I saw my WH. Walked over to him looking very confident and ready to do this. I sat next to him and we talked. I was very civil. He asked how I was, how the kids were and my family. Talked about all this for about 5 min. Then told him I was going inside the court room to wait inside. So I left and sat inside the court room.

Not even five min. later my WH came in and asked if he could sit next to me and I said yes. He starts saying that he didn't think that it would go this far and that if this is what I really wanted. I said that I didn't like my life the way it was for the past 7 months.

Then he starts saying that when this is all over and finalized that if we decided that we made a mistake that maybe we could try to work things out. And I said," X look I don't know if we can work this out, I don't know what lies ahead." Thats when he just came out and said that he didn't want to do this. I told him that I didn't want to live my life like this anymore. And he said that he would leave her (OW) to work it out.

I was like WHAT?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Total shock to me. I didn't expect to hear him say those words to me.

I told him look, I don't know whether to believe you or not, you've said this before, how do I know if you're telling me the truth or not. How do I know you're not lying. He said that he would prove it to me. He says that he'll leave her and move out.

Well anyways, our lawyers were discussing the amount of Child support he'll be giving and visitations for the kids, etc.

My H said he had to go for some training and his lawyer said it was ok for him to leave. He looked at me and told me that he was serious about wanting to work this out and he wasn't lying. He says he's gonna prove it to me. Gave me a kiss on the cheek and said I love you. And left.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

OH MY GOD!!! I actually had a dream that he would do this!!! Isn't that ironic.

What do I do? We still went through with the temporary orders.

This is something that i wished and prayed for and it actually happened. Now I'm scared, I don't know whether I believe him or not. What do you all think?

Oh and by the way, He dismissed the divorce on his part. My mom told me I got a letter in the mail today and she read it to me.

[ June 27, 2003, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: STBXWife ]

He is in the bargaining stage. He's realized what he lost. He'll probably want to be a "cakeman".
The stages of grief are something like the following:

Denial
Anger/Blame
Bargaining
Depression/Recovery
Acceptance

Picture this like a U, where bargaining is at the bottom part, and you begin to heal as you recover. You can easily slip back into any phase of this, and depression can occur in all phases.

If you really want this to work, do not allow him back into the house without guidelines. X,Y & Z must occur before you can consider reconciliation. If you don't establish your boundaries now, they will again be violated. And make a counselor one of the requirements.

God bless you and your family.

It's not just about moving out and not contacting the OW. There is a whole lot that goes into being willing to have an A.

I dumped the MC who told me that I need to make a commitment to the M so long as Tom isn't abusive or sees Sophia again. Well, does that mean I should continue in the M if he is disrespectful and nasty in a host of creative ways --

Be careful. I would agree it is the bargaining stage, and no contact with OW is just the tip of the iceberg.

I don't know your history, but I suspect this could be a sign of potential future reconcilliation. I know God can restore love and marriages, and that possibility is exciting! But you don't want the unhealthy past...you want a new, stable marriage.

One lesson I learned is that words are not enough. He's got to prove many things with his actions.

He should not just prove that he can leave OW but that he can do the hard work of recovering himself from the affair. Does he see where he got off track and does he have those issues resolved? Does he realize how deceived he was, and how to avoid the "fog" again? Is he willing to "date" for an extended period of time to regain your trust and take time to prove his commitment to you? Does he really love YOU?...or is he just tired of OW? Make sure he really loves YOU and has solid reasons, and that he has a solid foundation on which to build a new marriage...

Maybe go to a marriage conference or seminar...

May God bless you two! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

[ June 26, 2003, 02:31 PM: Message edited by: Renae ]

OH MY!!!!!

Well, I agree with everyone about being cautious, etc. But I really am so happy for you! Stand your ground -- you didn't get this far for nothing -- but if he really wants to make it happen, he will.

I'm sure you're more than a little scared. Keep taking care of yourself and your children and keep us up to date. I think you were correct in going through the prelinary motions etc. Let him make the moves.

DIJ

Guys, my mind is racing a mile a minute. I know that we need to talk about things.

I need help! I don't know how to start. I need like a plan or a list of things that need to be done on his part and my part.

Gosh, my mind is going into overdrive!!!

HELP!!!!!

I think it would be a good idea to consult with the Harley's via telephone on this.
Also, read some books on boundary setting in M's.
Good Luck.

I say "you" don't do anything. Let him make the moves. During the times that my WH came home, I jumped in too fast - he knew he still had me - and it didn't work.

I'd agree, MC and consultation with the Harley's (individually and/or jointly) would be money very well spent.

Good luck. I think you should be nice but hold back. A plan needs to be put into place but I'm not sure you should be the initiator.

Dueinjan,
I think you're right. I was just really glad that he said that he wanted to work things out. But I think maybe I should hold back. If he really wants it to work he has to work at it.

Ok, I'll wait till he wants to talk about it. I won't even mention anything. I'll continue doing what I have been.

He has started to call me more often. I've started to be a little nicer to him.

But you know I'm confused! In plan b you don't talk or talk only about what is nessasary like about the kids. Now that he has said that he wants to work it out, should I still be NOT talking to him or be talking to him more? What if he doesn't leave the OW (cake eater)? How do I handle the phone calls?

I guess I should play it "cool". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I don't know!! I think this is a pretty critical time for you. I know exactly what you mean, how do you exit out of Plan B to bringing back the marriage? Should you talk to him, let him be with the "family" or is he eating cake?

In the Surviving An Affair book there are fairly explicit directions. But it doesn't seem like you should be the one getting the ol' marriage books out. Maybe hand him the book with the pages marked and say, "this is the minimum of what it will require for me to want to work on this, please read it and tell me if you are in agreement of doing all of these things." If he seems hesitant, say, "I'm sorry, I can't go down this path again unless you're willing to jump in 100%, it's been too painful." Leave it at that.

I took my WH back several times. Each time the only thing I insisted upon was that he not contact OW. Each time he agreed and I let him move back into the house. Each time I went insane (like a detective) and found out he was contacting OW and asked him to leave. I realize now that I let him back in far too easy and that I had only required NC with OW. I needed to require commitment to the marriage. The thing that threw me off was that in the SAA book, when the couple gets back togeter after her 2 year affair, neither party is feeling very good about the situation. Their love ends up growing as they start filling eachother's needs. I was also expecting him to feel withdrawl for the OW (he did), but I was way too understanding.

All this being said...I am no poster child for success at this. But I do understand what you're feeling. Take it slow. If his mind changes because you aren't jumping at crumbs, then it wasn't going to work any way. Make him want it. You've suffered through the time and the child birth. Take it really slow.

I'm really shaking like a leaf right now.

I just spoke to my WH on the phone right now. I told him that I need to say something to him.

I started by telling him:

"Look yesterday you said that you wanted to work things out and you know how I feel about that. But before we can really start talking again I need you to do something for me. I need you to commit to the marriage 100%, I need you to move out of her house and I need you to have NC with her. Until then I don't think we should talk on the phone unless it is about the kids."

He said:

"Yes I do want to work it out. I don't want to go the route were going right now. I understand and I know I have to leave. When I leave it's over between me and her. I understand and OK."

Did I do good? Was that what was needed to be said?

Gosh I'm shaking like a leaf! I hope this works!
Please everyone pray for my marriage!!

Thanks everyone for your support and advice!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

STBXWife, As others have said, Wow! Sounds like you're handling it well. I agree with dueinjan as my experience was quite similar, though complicated with drugs, alcohol, and verbal abuse. Also, in my case, I believe now that my H's many attempts at reconciliation were based solely on the fact that I controlled the money and our business after he left so was probably never as hopeful as your situation. I'll be praying for you and your marriage!

This is going to be tough. YOur body is going to crumble at times, and shake.

Boundaries are needed. One, no contact with the other woman. No talking, unless it is about child support and issues pertaining to separation. No talk about emotions between the two of you.

There will be the false show from your husband. Many of us experienced the falseness, and were burned. I was burned, my WH used me, I feel. He would not committ to the marriage 100%. I failed, and should of kicked him out at that time. He took my money, and used me for sex. He tells others here that it was all he could do. The best he could of done was move out.

Hon, there are going to be many boundaries you are going to have to set. Many stages are going to happen. Right now, you are in disbelief. Right now you see a lightbulb going off that looks good. There will be setbacks, and it is going to be hard.

I would not engage in sex. I would not engage in doing things together. Right now, just like Plan B. Do what you have to. And let him figure things out. Also, counseling would be helpful. A third person makes life decisions easier, and helps you set boundaries. Be prepared, you are going to feel pain. All of us experienced it, and many of us experienced divorce. Cause our spouses were not committed. Let him show himself, with counseling, talking about emotions. And then let him pursue you.

Good luck. IT is good to see a Wayward spouse see what they are missing. Goodluck, and I hope things turn out okay. Hon, you are a wonderful person.

I think you did great! You told him what he needed to do and you didn't compromise yourself.

But here is the greatest thing that you did-- (in my opinion)-- you are letting him take the action himself and are not being disturbed by the fact that he has not immediately dislodged himself from OW. He has to take this action himself. You cannot drive the truck to pick up his stuff, call the OW to say "it's over", schedule the counseling session, or anyother similar behavior. IT HAS TO BE HIS DECISION AND HE CANNOT FEEL LIKE YOU MADE HIM DO THIS. You already know all of this. I'm typing it for my own benefit becasue this is where I really messed up.

The only thing you can control is you, your time, who you choose to spend it with, who you choose to be married to, and your children. It sounds like you are holding firm and that you know this too.

Keep up the Plan B until you can see his changes.

If I was in your position, I'd be wanting everything to happen all at once (I was and I did). Pace yourself. You're doing great. Keep the legal aspects in the works and remain steady. Good luck and kiss the baby for me.

Oh, I forgot to ask you. If he moves out of OW's house will he be living with you? Do you live alone with your children or are you with your parents? This is all so tricky. The idea of moving from one woman's house to another is kind of crazy (especially hard to go from Plan B to living together again). It's also very tough to not become a detective and if he goes through withdrawl it's tough for you to be there. Just curious.

You've come so far. <tosses in my 2 cents>
- The divorce is a consequence of the affair.
- He knows you too well.
- You know him too well.
- He knows how you react when pushed now.
- Having done this, he'll know how to do it more easily and without getting caught next time <-- One of the prime reasons I went through with and am sticking to dv and as little contact as possible.

The real question, in my mind, isn't what to do about what he said, but DO YOU WANT HIM BACK? And, not just now... not just as you sit here thinking about it and imagining how WONDERFUL it would be... you're both coming back to the dirtly slate of a relationship pushed to the brink. Look at how emotional you are. <sends good vibes your way>

My two cents is that you let him prove it to you in every way possible, go through with the dv, and AFTER you get the decree, consider letting some time pass, and then start dating him again. Emotionally give yourself some time to let things simmer down and to whatever extent possible let time and his actions grant you both some level of a "clean" slate. Bury the last relationship and marriage.

When you're first going into marriage, it's all about love and that huge naive romantic "rush". You going back into this RIGHT NOW AT THIS TIME... is about risk. Instead of what now... I'd suggest that you ask yourself, "Can I risk the heartache I have already gone through again?" This is where you draw your line in the sand.

Hi guys!!

Well I'm being very patient about things. As far as I know he hasn't moved out of the OW home. He is a cake eater. I'm glad that I told him that we shouldn't talk unless he was committed 100% to the marriage and until he leaves the OW.

Prior to me telling him this he called me several times on that day and the next.

But you know, he has this crazy idea that I'm seeing someone!! I really don't know why but I've told him that I'm not. (was this the right thing to say?)

But I truely believe that he is realizing what he's losing. When we were in the courtroom he was telling me that he would see the OW neices and nephews running around the house and he would think to himself "what am I doing here?, I should be watching my kids run around the house."

He also told me that he's been fighting alot with the OW. He feels like the relationship is going no where. According to what he told me, he's told her that he doesn't think that their relationship will work. And she says that they can try to make it work. (who's begging and pleading now!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) And she told him that if he leaves the house it's over between them.

Well this all came from his mouth, whether it's true or not, who knows.

I will proceed with the D UNLESS he proves to me that he wants to work it out by actually doing something about it and not just talking about it.

Dueinjan - If he does leave the OW's home he'll be moving back to his parents house. I'm living with my parents ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ).

I know what you mean about the withdrawal thing. It's gonna be hard for me to know whether or not he still having contact with the OW if were're not living together. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Anyone know how to handle something like this?

Pleeeeease. Do not give in to cake man. He is eating a double layer cake right now imho.

And don't tell him you're not seeing anybody. Make him wonder. Remember he's not showing caring, he's still self centered if he's living with OW after his promises. Dr. Phil says to watch actions and not words. Do that. watch his actions and see if they follow what he says. No action equals nothing. Empty promises are just words.

And his questioning if you're seeing anybody is probably like my xH used to do. Was convinced I was cheating like he was b/c he wanted to feel better. IF he thought I was doing the same bad thing he was, then it's all justified to the foggy people ok? Not a protestation of love like you WANT TO HEAR.

Tell him that he has 2 weeks to move out of OW house. Tell him that you are moving on with your life and sick of the games. That he will find out what it feels like if he doesn't...To know how you felt. Sounds harsh, but it works.

You need a LMBT approach here. And I also recommend doing things flip from what he expects from you. IF you are home at a certain time, be gone. If you immediately answer the phone, let it ring more or don't answer period. Throw him off. Let him assume the worst. Make him work for it for a change.

And my xH denied having contact with OW for almost 5 months while we lived together in new dream home. He lied and lied and then basically had a meltdown after I had yet another d day on the 3 of july.

Don't get sucked into their game and don'
t be involved in a love triangle. If he talks about OW, say that's your life. I don't want it in mine or in the kids. IF you feel bad about seeing OW's family and kids running around, then you should DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT INSTEAD OF FILLING MY EARS FULL OF HOT AIR.

You're mistaking love and caring and guilt for self centeredness. They are masters of it, the WS. Stay strong and contact my bud Orchid. She and hubby made it through after a long ordeal with a horrible OW that was more than toxic. Now mind you I am not totally blaming the OW/OM, because it takes 2 to tango, but this one pulled out all the stops to prevent their "breakup".

OW/OM ironically feel betrayal at the WS seeing spouse or contemplating breakup. Wierd.

Don't play the game like I did. Get smart and play harder and smarter. Get outta the game and play tough only with H.

STBXWife,

Remember a couple of weeks ago you asked to have your name added to the "Restoration of Marriages" prayer list? Did you see anything that might have come of those prayers?

All I would recommend is that you don't pplay games with your H. If you do, you will risk what hope you have. Your integrity is of utmost importance. Even though you were the one betrayed, your H will have to feel safe coming back home. So keep the boundries you set, stay honest with you and him. Granted, him thinking you are seeing someone may be off base (fog babble), but don't do anything that will make him think you are.

Isn't the idea that both of you to come to the point that you feel safe with each other again so your relationship can recover?

Just my $.02.

Bless you.

S&C

I am not saying anything that Dobson doesn't suggest in LMBT. I am not saying that you should pretend you're seeing anybody and that's all wrong.

Being a doormat for somebody who's foggy isn't the way to go. Dobson says in the book to make what's white seem black and what's black seem white and basically turn things around for them. Dr. Phil says that if you keep doing the same thing over and over again can you possibly believe the outcome will be any different?

I am not saying to play games. I am not.

What I have said is to not listen to the crapola the OW and him are doing. That's their business. Get out of their triangle and let them end this thing. But be firm. LEt him know if he wants to come back, he has to prove his intent. Actions are what shows period. If you're gonna talk the talk then you'd better walk the walk.

What I've seen firsthand is the marriages that succeed, the BS has to be brave and stand up for what is right and for what they are willing to take and set boundaries and limits or the WS just keeps rolling over them. And sometimes it does work out, other times not.

When a WS makes the decision to become a WS, then odds begin stacking against a marriage period. When they cross over that line, issues change and so does basically everything in the marriage.

Your WH needs to know you will be 100% supportive and loving if he comes home, but he has to show 100% committment and leave OW and give only to marriage. If you agree to less, then you have a serious waffler. There was a woman in my divorce recovery group who was married to a waffling cheater. One month things were good. Next month, he was back with her, and yada yada yada.

She lost 20 lbs over 6 mos. Had extreme difficulty eating and sleeping. His games were hers becausse she allowed them to be. When she got strong and decided that this is no way to live that a mom needs to be ther 100% for kids then she did a turn around. Her WH came back only when she cut off contact and stayed firm that she was either going to be married or divorced and no grey areas.

And their affair will die a natural death. They're already arguing with each other. Let them continue. Just have that peace inside. I say to contact Orchid because she made the best of this. She is a MB success and her H is great! They are doing a good job and I hope there can be others who are incredible successes here.

I wish my marriage were one. But alas, we cannot force anybody to do anything. God gave us free will. Some use that free will to do incredibly stupid and selfish things to the people they took vows to honor, love and cherish.

ALSO,about the doing things different. These WS' think that we are always at home crying or see us pleading and wanting them back.

Sure we may, but life goes on. Changing your schedule a bit and maybe not answering the phone on the first ring or letting it go to vm doesn't suggest an affair. It does suggest that you are living. And not pining away.

What is unattractive is the BS sitting at home watiting for phone to ring and not out living their life. Who wants to come back to that? When you were dating did you do that? Nope. They had to woo you and work for it. I am saying he needs to work for it. He has alot of groundwork to lay. You've shown him how to come back and he knows you are willing to take him. Now let him show what he's made of.

Waiting game is hard. I had to do it. Did everything I could do. Wouldn't have changed a thing. My xH was determined to sleep about and live like a playboy. The wife and child didn't complete that lifestyle for him. Just like his new bmw, he wanted a newer and much much sleazier version of what he already had.

Be prepared for either outcomes. Pray and get ready. Strap in and make sure you make the roller coaster ups and downs be as small as possible. You being smart and not controlled by your emotions will help in this. Think rather than react. This is key. Staying focused is important so get busy with kids and doing other things. When you deal with this, deal with prayer and carefully deal with H when you speak with him. OW has nothing to lose. However, you and your H do.

stxw,

You requested prayers for your marriage. We are told in His word not to be surprised when we receive the answer. Is this an answer to prayer?
I don't know. I believe it could very well be ananswer to your prayers. Only God can answer this question. This is between you and God and the plans He has for you.

You are getting a lot of advise and a lot of names are being thrown around. For a Christian, there is only ONE person that can answer your questions or show you the path to take. Do not put your trust in man, your trust must be in the Lord. Sometimes it takes time for us to know His answer. Sometimes we don't like His answer or find it hard to do what He ask. My journey has taught me one thing, God is the only one to show me the way. If I follow anyone elses advise, I will fail. Yes, God does speak thru others, but ask God to confirm anything you believe to be from God. God never fails.

I will pray for you to be able to discern what God wants you to say or do. Seek Him in all things.

gentle

[ June 30, 2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: gentle ]

Well when he said he wanted to work things out and that he was serious and not lying, I thought this would be soon.

It's been 4 days since he seemed to want to work things out.

I'm praying that he was serious about wanting to work it out!

What can I do but, go on with this divorce and life.

His words don't mean much to me. I want him to do something about it. The sooner the better.

I feel stronger than ever and have some satisfaction knowing that he's having doubts about his relationship with the OW and wanting to come back to the marriage.

I really don't know what he's thinking. Or what is taking him so long to leave. I feel like he's afraid to leave the OW.

In my heart I know it will happen, he'll leave her, just want it to happen now. I'm trying to be very patient!

I always said to myself "he'll be back". And I know in my heart he'll be back. I have faith that God will make it happen.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

No update guys!

Nothing's changed, nothing's happened.
I wonder what's going on in my WH relationship with the OW. I wonder if he's told her anything about his doubts or him wanting to return to the marriage as he said.

Probably not.

Well life goes on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

While it's important to have faith, I do not argue this, it is important to use your brain. God gives us brains to use not waste.

If I had just sat still and done absolutely nothing, I would have been run all over by my xH. My son and I would probably have nothing.

What is being advised is to combine your faith with good actions. Be pro active. You're waiting now. I'd say to give it a bit. Maybe let until a whole week passes then tell him if he's serious of leaving OW to show it through actions by moving out.

Let the seriousness of the courtroom hit him. Let it sink in a bit. And don't focus on it. Distract yourself and do other things with the kids.

Set a reasonable time limit. In the meanwhile, read Surviving and Affair and Love Must Be Tough.

Being a wallflower does nothing. It's boring anyway. Have a plan of action and stick to it. And that's that. You feel more in control when you have both faith and a plan of action.

I got my answer from my x and I know I did all I could do. God makes us free when our WS deliberately continue to hurt and are unrepentant with affairs or violence or lies. Divorce isn't the first choice to be sure, but only when all matters are exhausted and you see no end that it should be approached. And I know that there was no other recourse for me.

We'd love to see another success here. But you've got to be firm. Read the part about confrontation with WS in LMBT. You must be firm but loving.

I keep thinking
"What's going on in his head? What is he feeling? Will he leave her? Is she LB enough for him to leave her? Is he feeling that he REALLY wants his marriage back?"

I wish I knew what was going on, if anything is going on.

Can any WS tell me how they felt when they wanted to go back to their marriage and end it with the OW?

I keep thinking to myself, I think he really misses me and the kids. But then I think, he really doesn't want to let her go.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

[ July 01, 2003, 02:25 PM: Message edited by: STBXWife ]

I can't imagine how you feel. But I do know from reading on this site that the A is an addiction, like a drug, they can't leave. And also, that A's die a natural death 6 months of D-Day.

You are more focused on what he is thinking than what you want. I hope you have thought about your needs and those of your children. And working on the M should be a condition of return.

May God bless you and your family.

STBX,

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I keep thinking "What's going on in his head? What is he feeling? Will he leave her? Is she LB enough for him to leave her? Is he feeling that he REALLY wants his marriage back?"<hr /></blockquote>All of these are normal thoughts and unfortunately, the WS rarely gets answers to them. But his actions when they start coming will begin to tell you the answers to some of the questions.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Can any WS tell me how they felt when they wanted to go back to their marriage and end it with the OW?<hr /></blockquote>While I'm not a WS, I can tell you what my W told me as she was distancing herself from OM at work. She told me it was like having someone close to you die. and she mourned for her loss too. Hurt me like you wouldn't believe, to see her moping around because she couldn't spend time with him. Later she told me she didn't see what the attraction was, but it was like an addiction. She just had to keep spending time w/ him, even though she knew it was going to be harmful to our relationship.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />I keep thinking to myself, I think he really misses me and the kids. But then I think, he really doesn't want to let her go.<hr /></blockquote>You're probably right on both counts. He is torn between the two of you. However, your H has more invested in you than her. You need to (if you haven't already) figure out what needs the OW is meeting that you weren't, and do your best to meet them when you are in contact with him.

I hope, being armed with this information you will be able to recognize what is going on when you can't understand why he is acting differently than you would expect. He will struggle. That's expected. Just don't equate the struggle, with a lack of desire to work on the M. As a matter of fact, if you see the struggle, that's a sign of him wanting you, but he just needs help. When you see the struggle, pray for him and don't LB.

You're doing great. Later'z

S&C

STBXW

Following your story with interest because I too have a WS who doesn't seem to know what the heck he wants, his family or the OW <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Last call I recieved from him was four days ago also, have heard nothing since. He told me he was unhappy, how leaving for the OW was what he'd wanted four months back, but it's not what he wants now - he wants out and to come back home and work on our marriage he told me!!

I told him to come home, he said it wasn't that easy, he has to sort things out at that end firstly....??????

These guys are pretty confused I think! Best to give them some more time and space alone. They got themselves into this mess, only they can get out of it.

Hope all goes well for you anyway. Keeping my fingers crossed for the both of us <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Steadfast,

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> You need to (if you haven't already) figure out what needs the OW is meeting that you weren't, and do your best to meet them when you are in contact with him. <hr /></blockquote>How do I meet his EN when I'm not having any contact with him. I mean, I told him that until he is committed 100% on the marriage and leaves the OW then we can start talking.

How do I meet those needs now if I'm not having any contact with him?

EdensSecret,
I also saw your post in the Plan A/B forum and you WH sounds just like my WH.

I know he's confused. I know he wants to come back and yes I am giving him his space and giving him time.

I have this feeling in my heart that he will leave her. I believe he's trying to find the right time to do it. I'm not saying that I like it one bit, but am trying to understand.

He once said that leaving me was hard to do. And I'm thinking that he's thinking the same thing about the OW.

I'm being as patient as possible about all this (w/o LB) and I have faith that he'll do it.

I will also have my fingers crossed for both of us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

[ July 01, 2003, 04:52 PM: Message edited by: STBXWife ]

STBX,

I know you're not contacting your H. He is supposed to be contacting you to determine what he wants to do right? That is why I said to meet them "when" you are in contact with him. Because you will be at some point.

In the mean time, one need he will have is the need to feel safe when he's with you. And he needs to be prayed for. Both of which I'm sure you're doing or trying to do.

Like I said before I think you're doing a wonderful job. God Bless.

S&C

Well yesterday right before I left work a recieved a call for WH.

He said that he just wanted to thank me for letting him spend some time with our 4 mo. old daughter on Sunday.

My in-laws took both kids after church so that they can spend some time with them.

He said that he had a lot of fun with her and that she's beautiful.

I really didn't say much just listened to what he had to say.

Then he says this before we hung up:
"Well I guess I'll let you go, I wish I could talk to you longer but I can't. But maybe someday, I have your cell number. ok?"

I really don't know what he's thinking!!! Darn,
sometimes I wish that I didn't have to talk to him at all!!! Even about the kids, b/c then he says something that gets me thinking. ARRRGG!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I hate this. I do really good when I don't talk to him then he calls says something that confuses the hell out of me then I start feeling down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I felt like crying on my way home after work just b/c of this stupid comment that he made which may not mean a thing. But I can't help thinking like this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Sorry, just had to Vent!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You're dealing with exactly what I did. He was polite and nice when he was getting his way...And the IL's (I now call them the outlaws) enabled everything.

IL's will, btw, be good when it's in their best interest to be nice. Should things go south, IL's usually proceed south with the WS/child.

The comment from WH is fog. Please, please listen to either redhat or Orchid. They know fog talk. Think nothing of it. When they are wacky like this involved in the total addiction of the stupid affair, NOTHING THEY DO MAKES SENSE. When it's all said and done, they will be amazed what they did.

Can be sure that soon after dust settles, Jethro will be amazed at his destruction. One day he will.

But you can't keep allowing yourself this kind of torture. Do plan A and then go to b. You're at the end of the rope now. IT's a horrible place there.

And no, you cannot fill EN when they are withdrawing. They will not let you. You've got to protect yourself, your children and your emotions right now. Your kids need one stable and rational parent ok?

I am saying to not do anything b/c he will not respond. When they are withdrawing, it's like an addict. And when my xH did that, he returned to OW because he was NOT WILLING to go the extra mile for his family. His addiction to his self happiness was more important. They will waffle now like never before so YOU gotta stay firm. I allowed him to waffle. That was my one mistake. Ishould have been a thousand times tougher.

Please read those two books I told you about. Don't listen to his foggy words because even he doesn't know what he's saying.

But what he is doing is important right now. Look what he is doing. He is seeing child. Making NO promises of return. Making NO attempt at moving out from OW house. Look at actions. Not words. And soon, I believe a plan B should be coming. Actions have to have results. He has to know that his actions will yield negative results from you.

Being tough and applying tough love harshly some times has been what's saved some marriages. I wasn't tough enough. My only regret. I kept going back to a plan A after two failed plan B's in 2001 to early /mid 2002. But now I realize that I don't even think a plan A or B would have worked as my xH is one of the foggiest WS' ever.

Make a plan, get support here and stick to your guns. I used to try to think of things on this term: if you're tired of a waffler, then tell him he can have waffles only at the waffle house. I used to call MOnkeyho's place the Waffle House. Very appropriate.

Please do not set yourself up for anything right now. We don't know what he will do. That's why you need to place you and the kids in the drivers' seat and make some good changes in you. Learn how to not ride the rollercoaster.

What I discovered is that I had myself become addicted to riding his little rollercoaster along with him. Then one day I didn't want to ride anymore so I got off of it permanently. Save yourself time and tears by doing that too.

Take this time to work on you, if there are areas you want to improve in yourself then do it! If there are areas that would be improved in your attitude/personality/emotions, then work on that too. But you cannot work at a relationship when the other person isn't at a place where they are willing yet to do so.

He is addicted and is NOT YET IN REAL WITHDRAWAL NOR RECOVERY BECAUSE HE IS STILL LIVING AND SLEEPING WITH THE OW. Please know that. He will be totally irrational for some time. First thing to do...Encourage and only have contact with him if he is committing himself to total recovery of your marriage with one biggie provision: HE END IT WITH OW AND MOVE OUT.

That is the first thing. Until he does that then you do nothing except work on you. That's all you can do. He might, he might not do it. If then he ends things with OW, then you will have a seriously depressed fella living under your roof which will bring more confusion to you and moping. It will be a while until he's ready to work on the marriage. So take things only one step at a time.

1)make it clear you want as of now him to end it with ow and move out.

2)you work on you. focus not on the affair, but you and the kids only.

3)don't listen to him as he's waffling and is feeling heavy effects of the funky fog as I call it. Remember to only gauge progress as result of actions not words

Thanks peachy!!

I'm just so fustrated w/ HIM!!! I feel like he thinks I'll wait forever for him. I'm so tired of his BS!! I'm going on with my life. He's not a part of it anymore. Only when it has to do with the kids. I'm going on with the Divorce and he knows it.

His parents went through the same thing. His dad left his mom for OW. They divorced but his dad went back to his mom.

And he told me that day that we were in the court room. "If my parents did it then we can do it too."

But you know, he's not truely ready to work on the marriage and he's willing to get the divorce. AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> This is stupid. I'm pissed. I just wish that I didn't have to talk to him at all. I do so good when I don't have to talk to him!! I'm so mad. He's buying time with her. His words don't mean sh** to me!!! I want him to do something about it. Why say anything at all then? Does he expect me to wait for him till he's done having his fun?

I'm going on with my life! After this Divorce I'm leaving my parents house and getting a house of my own, me and the kids! I'm gonna go out and gonna go out on dates, you know why? B/C I'll be divorced. That's what divorced people do, right? I mean this is ridiculous. He's like wanting me to put my life on hold until he has the balls (sorry for the language) to leave her. I dont think so. He hasn't proved anything to me. Those words coming out of his mouth on thursday were nothing but words. There were no actions to back up his words!!!!

Sorry just MAD!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I know your frustrations....I was there. Been there dun that and have the t shirt.

But before you fully go ahead with the D, do a good plan B. Let him know he can either leave OW NOW or give a time limit (2 weeks) or you are forging ahead. And you stand firm.

And my xH told me the same thing. About 2 years ago he said he wished he could just play around for a few years until he wanted to come back.

No banana.

If he had that little God talk and changed his walk, then he will have to still wait in line...It's going to be a long one he will wait in. Good women are hard to come by.

Don't think about dating.

You're mad. DO NOT REACT WHEN YOU ARE MAD..PEOPLE DO STUPID STUFF WHEN THEY ARE MAD. Instead detach and focus on something else. Let him know that his words are empty...You need to see some action to know he wants this marriage.

And just like I guessed...PARENTS ARE HUGE ENABLERS...I MEAN YOUR IL'S DID THE SAME THING...NO WONDER THEY ARE SUPPORTIVE. They did the same damn thing. Just like my outlaws. He was cheating on her as short as 2 years ago....Many ow..WE TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO TREAT US...LOOK HOW YOUR H WAS TAUGHT.

STBXWife, I'm in the same boat as you know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I havn't heard from H for four days, (last saw him Saturday) and it doesn't appear that he is coming home either. All talk and no action it appears and acting like he never made those calls when he sees me.

To be honest I think that my H is calling me when he and OW have been fighting. Afterwards they make up and so everythings hunky dory between them again and he tosses me aside. But I'm sick to death of him thinking he can play with my feelings in this way and I'm putting a stop to it right now!! Next time he calls whining on with his pleas of ILY and telling me is unhappy, wants out of the situation with OW, he wants us to try again, etc.....he is politely gonna be told not to call me back again, I have nothing to say to him while he remains with her. He can call me when he's left her and then we will talk!

It isn't fair to raise our hopes of reconciliation when it's obvious they have no intentions of carrying it through, at least my H doesn't appear to have. It's no more than a form of abuse when one will play with anothers feelings in this way.

My H hasn't even bothered to show up for our daughter tonight when he'd said he was going too. No calls, no nothing to explain why he hasn't bothered to show either! Guess this week he has proved just how much he really cares for us and that is zilch!

Thanks peachy!

I know that I shouldn't date and I'm not even ready to date. I'm just so fustrated. I feel like screaming.

I'm just really hurt. He's said the things that I've wanted him to say but, he hasn't done anything about it. I feel like he's playing wiht my emotions. He knows exactly how I feel about wanting to work things out. And when he says that he wants to work things out, I feel like he's giving me hope. Then he does nothing to try to work things out and I feel like SH**!

I really wish that he would just snap out of it. He doesn't have a future with the OW, why stay in the relationship? He says it himself, their relationship is going no where.

Thanks for your support peachy and everyone else. You guys are my greatest support!!!

STBX,

You know Jethro has taken peachy`through the ringer more than once and he continues to pull her through again at a snail's pace. But, your H isn't Jethro. He may say some of the same stuff and act like him at times, but they aren't the same person.

At the risk of getting on her bad side, I'd like to ask you focus on the advice she gives and not what she says about Jethro.

Peachy is so right that your H is deep in the fog.

However, you don't know what he is thinking, so don't put thoughts in his head. Because the thoughts you will give him will pretty much be negitive.

You need to be clear about what you expect. Ask him about his plan to work on the M. Maybe you tell him that you expect him to move out by such and such a date (give him enough time to be able to do it but not much more). Then give him until that date and do something. You decide clearly what you will do if he doesn't. What ever it is remember you need to keep your credibility.

But most of all, take any advice you get from here, sit down with it and pray about it. See what might apply to your situation (not someone else's) and pray about it again before you do anything with it.

Just want to smooth out the rollercoaster ride a little for you and give you a little bit of control over it.

Bless you.

S&C

STWXW

Sometimes I wonder if our WS's make these calls/or tell us these things looking for reassurance from us that we still love him, would be prepared to reconcile if all fails with their OW's? Keeping us as a *safety net* in other words.

We could also look at this way. While our WS's KNOW now that we would have them back at the drop of a hat because we have reassured them of recent that we still love them, would be prepared to give them another chance - then they might be under the impression that they can play away for longer because they know our doors are open to them anytime they wish to return.....?????

Well little will my H realise, but the door closes one inch further everytime he messes with my feelings in this way and one of these days when he actually does find that he wants to come home, the door will have been slammed shut.

I think I did wrong in opening up to him the way I did last Thursday. I should've made him sweat over whether I still loved him or whether I'd have him back. Make them think for a change!

Oh well.....back to the drawing board I guess <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Ok, you think I should ask him how he plans on working on the marriage? Then I should let him know by when he should move out of her house?

Is that the right way to go about things?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Isn't it too late to do this, maybe I should have done this when he was talking about wanting to work things out. Or maybe I should wait until he brings it up again? I know one of these days he's going to say this to me again. Probably when we have to go to court again. Or one of these days when he wants to talk about things.

[ July 02, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: STBXWife ]

STBX,

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Ok, you think I should ask him how he plans on working on the marriage?<hr /></blockquote>Yes! He said; He would leave OW and work it out. So, I think you should ask him; "What is your plan to work on our M?" Have him give you specifics. What he's going to do and when. They have to be tangible and be able to be verified. He doesn't need to answer you right then, but he should get back to you in short order. Don't get angry with his answer, just repeat it and thank him.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Then I should let him know by when he should move out of her house?<hr /></blockquote>You should tell him (again) you don't want to live like you have been and one thing you require as proof of him wanting to work on your M is that he needs to move out and not see OW any more. Then ask him how long he needs to do get that done. If it is longer than you think he needs, then tell him how long he has. You need to take into consideration where he will move (will he move back with you or willhe need to find another place). He will need enough time to do which ever. He also needs to know that you still love him and you will be safe for him.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Is that the right way to go about things?<hr /></blockquote>Do you want to stop the rollercoaster ride? Do you want to know what he's thinking? Yes, his actions will tell you what he's thinking. But, he needs to know what actions will prove to you that he's serious. Otherwise he's left to guess and The Fog tends to skew one's thinking. He may be thinking just telling you he wants to work it out is action enough. Set the expectations and there will be no questions or misinterpretations. What you and I might think would be obvious is lost on someone in the fog. Years ago, when my M was in trouble I made changes and thought I made the right changes; come to find out it wasn't the changes my W expected. She had an A. If I had known what I had to do, we'd been a lot better off and I wouldn't be here writing to you.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Isn't it too late to do this, maybe I should have done this when he was talking about wanting to work things out.<hr /></blockquote>Did you know to do this when he was talking about wanting to work it out?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Or maybe I should wait until he brings it up again? I know one of these days he's going to say this to me again. Probably when we have to go to court again. Or one of these days when he wants to talk about things.<hr /></blockquote>If you have been keeping a good relationship with God I think you will know when to bring it up. If not, wait until he calls next about your daughter. I doubt I'd call him regarding the M. You need to stay in Plan-B and work on you. Keep praying.

Bless you.

S&C

Steadfastandcommitted,

Wouldn't the WS feel *pressured* if one were to follow your advice. Doing the above could be interpreted by the WS as trying to *control* him and *pressuring* him to make his choice.

Surely this will make the WS feel *trapped* again.

As much as this hurts I think it's best to give the WS *space* and *time* to make their choice. We cannot force them nor pressure them to make a choice. They have to want to come home themselves and will do so in their own time.

JMO anyway <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

That's what I was thinking.

I don't want to feel like I'm PRESSURING him. Even though I want to, I don't want to seem like that to him.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

When we pressure them we know what happens. They tend to flee in the opposite direction again and any thoughts that our WS's may have about wanting to come home will be soon dismissed by them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

In trying to pressure and control our WS's and in more or less forcing them to make a choice, we may very well be delaying the reconciliation process/or perhaps destroying any chance of reconciliation.

I think it's best to give them more time and space without the pressure.

However, if your WS mentions reconciliation again, then you should perhaps take the opportunity then to mention what your expectations would be of him and under what circumstances you would be prepared to reconcile.....

ie: no contact with OW, counselling, etc, etc....

He will call again with mention of reconciliation, no doubt about it. He is obviously still very confused and isn't sure of what he wants. He needs the time and space in which to make his OWN choice and a choice that he ALONE has made.

If he returns then you will know for sure that reconciliation is what he TRULY wants and not something he was perhaps pressured into. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

[ July 02, 2003, 05:25 PM: Message edited by: EdensSecret ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />quoted by STBXWife

I told him look, I don't know whether to believe you or not, you've said this before, how do I know if you're telling me the truth or not. How do I know you're not lying. He said that he would prove it to me. He says that he'll leave her and move out.<hr /></blockquote>Do you remember this? All your doing is asking him the details. He set an expectation that wasn't met. So what do you do? Have him clarify and give you details.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />quoted by EdensSecret

However, if your WS mentions reconciliation again, then you should perhaps take the opportunity then to mention what your expectations would be of him and under what circumstances you would be prepared to reconcile....<hr /></blockquote>Funny, I think that's what I suggested.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />This is stupid. I'm pissed. I just wish that I didn't have to talk to him at all. I do so good when I don't have to talk to him!! I'm so mad. He's buying time with her. His words don't mean sh** to me!!! I want him to do something about it. Why say anything at all then? Does he expect me to wait for him till he's done having his fun?<hr /></blockquote>I don't think I would ever leave myself guessing about this. If I've done everything I knew I could do, then my W would have to make a choice.

My suggestion was to help you to get some control over the rollercoaster ride. If you think you have to ride it out that's ok. Not an easy road to travel believe me. Either way, I'll keep praying for you.

Keep God close.

S&C

STBXW, From my own experience, I agree pretty much 100% with Peachy. But, as S&C pointed out, your H is not Jethro or my drunk and addicted STBXH. But the things your H does and says are all too familiar. I think what Peachy is trying to point out, based on the mistakes she made, which by the way are the same mistakes I made, is that you have to choose what to do based on YOU, not on what effects you think it might have on your WH.

As Peachy recommended, focus on self-improvement. Make the changes in yourself that need to be made, for YOU, so that your next relationship, whether it be with your WH or someone else, will be better. I second the book recommendations, especially the Harley's book, since this is MB! I haven't read all of Dobson's book, just quotes, but liked what he said (that Peachy already referred to) about how unattractive we make ourselves by being victims and how we should act the way we acted when they were pursuing us, that is, confident and happy, with a life of our own. If you don't feel that way, act "as if" you do. Sometimes if you do that long enough, you actually start to believe it.

As much as I wish things had turned out differently for me, at this point, I'm glad the uncertainty is over. I know all too well the pain of what you're going through. My H told me over and over that he wanted to work things out, he told me he wanted to grow old with me, but just wasn't ready to come home yet, he even went to several different marriage counselors with me and a marriage therapy weekend. He lied, telling me he was living alone when he was really living with the MOW all along. And I realized, like Peachy that I was addicted to his crazy rollercoaster life. I was just another character in his movie. I wasn't living my own life.

I was diagnosed with breast cancer almost 5 years ago and this experience with infidelity, separation, and divorce has many similarities. Both shook my world off it's foundations. Both fundamentally changed my view of myself. I wouldn't wish either experience on anybody, but I've grown a lot because of each experience.

I agree with S&C about not taking anyone else's advice verbatim, but praying about it and allowing God's guidance to become clear to you. You can't figure it out alone. This is the time for faith, for prayer, and for patience. Let God carry you, you're never alone.

Im running on empty right now. Yesterday my WH had my son all day. Well I find out by my son that he was at the OW house. AAARRRGGG!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I'm sorry but there is something really wrong with my WH, mentally!!!! Is he mentally ill or what? He needs counceling.

Well I called my BIL and asked him to call his brother and tell him that I needed to talk to him ASAP!
By this time I had already left a message on his voicemail at work.
Saying something to this effect:
"You know you say you want to work things out and then you take our son to her house. I'm sorry X but, when the temp orders come through we're going to follow them strictly and that's it. I tried, but you find it nessasary to take your son around her. You'll be able to see him every other week and that's it. I'm sorry X, but I have no other choice. Sorry."
(Which he still hasn't heard b/c he'll be back at work tonight)

Well my WH called about 30 to 40 min. later.

And I asked him, why did you take our son to her house. And he asked, who told you. And I said, he did. He told me he was playing on the side walk. And he said that he just went to the house to pick up some money and that he didn't even get down. Which is a lie b/c my son told me who was there at the house.

Then he says, I'm hearing rumors that you are seeing someone. I was like what, who's saying that, your girlfriend. Those are rumors.

Then he says we'll talk about this tommorrow. I said, wait I just want to know why you feel like you need to take him to her house and he said let me call you back. (Which means I don't want to talk about it we're going to hang up.) I said ok and hung up.

I knew he wouldn't call back and he didn't.

I ended up calling him voice mail again and left another message.

I said, "I'm not seeing anyone. Even though we haven't been together for months now, I know in my heart that I'm married. I'm not seeing anyone nor have I seen anyone. And like we use to say a long time ago I swear on our love ( we use to say this when we were in high school, stupid huh?). I swear it on my kids, I'm not seeing anyone. I don't want to complicate things anymore by adding another person to the situation. And those rumors are just that, rumors."

I'm just really fustrated with everything. I dont want him thinking that I'm seeing someone when I'm not. I don't want to hurt my chances of reconciliation. I do go out and I do have girlfiends that I do go out with but I dont date or have been looking.

I cried myself to sleep last night. I felt this emptiness in my heart. I'm truely hurting by all this. But I can't make him come back and I know that. I wish he would be true to his word and do something about it.

I'm not having a good day!! Feeling really down.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

STBX Wife,

Wake up ! Your H is using you emotionally and mentally. My WW is trying to do the same thing. She deines everything etc. ASK YOURSELF ONE QUESTION, WHY DO YOU WANT THIS PUNK BACK? Has he shown any redeeming qualities since this has gone down? You are not a doormat, and he probably backed down at court because he was scared he would lose his fallback position. Let the OW have him, he is worthless! Move forward with your life and forget the scum. There are plenty of good men out there to share your life with. Life is short, dont waste it on losers!

fff,

Welcome to MB. I know you've only been posting for a couple of days and are still in much pain from your own situation. I'm sorry you've had to come here. But....

Maybe you don't understand the issue here. STBX wants to save her M. She doesn't need someone who's acting out of anger from there own situation to confuse her.

The reason people come here is because the want to build their marriages and make them better. That's why it is called "Marriage Builders"

The road to recovery is always a hard one. most M here have only one person that wants to save it. They are willing to read the stuff here and apply them to theirs lives to recover and improve their M.

Even if STBX's M doesn't work out, if she learns things from here, she will know that she did her best and has nothing to be ashamed of, or sorry for. She will walk away a better person, either for Mr. STBX or someone else that will see a more confident person. One that knows what marriage vows are and how to protect them.

MB can be a Godsend for people who want to save their marriages. It can also be a hurtful and confusing place when people let their emotions control what they post without any regard for the consequences to other vulnerable people. Because of the rollercoaster ride they are easily swayed into making decisions that are hasty.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> by TMCM

BUT I would caution you to think well before you take any life changing action based on what your feelings are this moment.<hr /></blockquote>TMCM gave you this advice on the very first reply on your thread. Great advice for everyone. You know you're very lucky. You have some of the best people at MB helping you through your situation (TMCM, Starf*sh, justawifey to name a few). Wish I had them helping me out a year ago. Listen to them well.

Good luck to you and God bless.

S&C

STBX,

Hey there. I wish you didn't have to go through all this stuff. I wish no-one did. But I want you know that there are people here that care for you and understand the hurt you feel. I know it's not much but I wanted to give you this cyber hug {{{{{{{STBX}}}}}}} and to let you know I'm still praying for ya.

May God bless you and carry you today.

S&C

Thank you Steadfast!!
It does help to know that people do care.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

He called just right now and said he was sorry that he took our son to her house. He said that he didn't want to jeperdize the ability to take our son. And he wouldn't do it again!! Sure yeah right, he's said that before!!!!

And kept asking if I was seeing someone!!!!! I was like NO!!!

I'm married. I don't want to see anyone or have been looking for anyone.

[ July 03, 2003, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: STBXWife ]

Hang in there. My W tried to deflect things back on to me too. You just gotta see through it.

For me the best way for me to deal with it was to remember what it was like when I had friends trying to kick a drug habit. They really thought they needed the drugs. But they never knew how bad they were for them until they were separated from the drug long enough for them to think clearly.

Have the best 4th of July you can. Keep praying.

S&C

Hi STBX.

Sorry I haven't written in a while but I took some time off and went to the beach with my sister and her friends and their husbands. It felt very strange being the "single" one - but I managed, and it was nice to get away with other people.

I can't write much right now because my WH is bringing the kids back in a few hours but I wanted to check up on you. I'm sorry to see that your WH is making things difficult for you. I know so well what you're going through right now - WH gets your hopes up that things are going to be ok and that this nightmare will eventually end, he makes some strange comments which lead you to believe that things haven't ended with OW, and then he takes your child to OW's house! It's amazing but sadly we are living the same story.

I wish I knew what to tell you to do. I don't. But having lived through this I think I would suggest that you go deeply back into Plan B. Try to pretend that the last week or so (since the court date) didn't happen and that you are in the same mind-set as you were in prior(sad that you were divorcing but moving on and feeling some sense of power and direction about your life). He's jerking you around and keeping you in this state of misery. SO UNFAIR. Only you can get yourself out of it - he won't. Continue as if he hadn't uttered those words in the court room. He hasn't shown you anything yet.

During the period of time when my WH would come back but then contact OW and I'd ask him to leave (this happened several times) I went to my therapist who said that he had developed a pursuer/distancer pattern with me. He couldn't bear to have me out of his sight completely so when he feels me going away, he comes back to pull me in. As soon as he senses that I'm back in the game, he flees again. She told me that I had to break the pattern (or "magnetic field") or that I'd be miserable and she said that once I did it one time, it would be easier each time. After that, my WH said, "Do you think there is any chance for us? (I would normally say, "yes, but you have to give up OW, etc. etc." . He would then go on his merry way knowing that I was still playing the game.) Now I say, "I don't think so. How could I trust you again? You're right our marriage was flawed (and other things he said to me after the A was discovered)"

Now, I'm not saying what I'm doing is working. I most likely will be divorced by Fall. But, it is giving me some peace to move on and not be controlled by his whims and how his A is progressing.

Well, I wrote longer than I intended. I'm thinking of you and will check back later.

DIJ

Well, I don't want to keep posting this...unless it can really help and here I certainly see the perfect couple for this:

I highly recommend you visit www.savemymarriage.com and www.familydynamics.net - They were founded several years ago from Dr. Harley's principals and have saved many thousand marriages through a single weekend seminar for marriages in crisis.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dueinjan:

I went to my therapist who said that he had developed a pursuer/distancer pattern with me. He couldn't bear to have me out of his sight completely so when he feels me going away, he comes back to pull me in. As soon as he senses that I'm back in the game, he flees again. DIJ<hr /></blockquote>I know this is STBXW'S thread, but thanks for that piece of info dueinjan. Seems my H is playing the pursuer/distancer game too and it sucks:(

S&C...

You have to quite calling him PERIOD. Everytime you call him or his brother or anyone about this, you are relieving him of his obligation to uphold his words. You are trying to control the situation and hold him to his words by 'hovering' over him. You can't. It won't work. You have to let him go and see how he acts on his own. WSs cannot have someone control them. You cannot control him, although you might think you are not. Why are you calling him then? Let him come to you with questions, and then you answer him with the answers that you know about. If he never comes to you asking about your marriage, then you will never need to worry about what he is doing.

Just go about the divorce or separation as you would regularly do. I tell you, I absolutley believe that you will only make yourself miserable, and continue this for some time, until he finally just really pulls the plug on your marriage. THEN you will have to go through this all again.

He doesn't respect you or your marriage. Now I am all for saving marriages. I tried with everything that I had. However, I realized early on that there was nothing that I could do to control what she did. And actually, I realized that I didn't WANT to control her. I wanted a willing PARTNER who thought about me and my boys as an important part of her life. NOT as policemen that kept her in line. I played that part for too long in our marriage. Let him go and see what he does. OR are you willing to take on the burdon of being completely responsible for not only everything that you do, but also for everything that he does?

Because if you continually confront him on these sorts of things WITHOUT him trying to move forward with your marriage, that is all you are doing... You are trying to control him. If he says he 'wants to try' but shows you NO TRYING, then nothing about you calling him will make a difference. However, if you just keep his actions in the back of your mind and then he comes to you, you can then say "Why did you visit her? You said you wouldn't. You have shown me nothing to believe you." And leave it at that. Don't cry and harangue, don't rage and fuss, just let that be the end of it.

If you hang on too tight, then he will feel that you are trying to control him. He will see your crying and harangueing as 'That is the reason I wanted to leave in the first place.' Instead of seeing HIS behavior as causing you pain, he will only see YOUR behavior as causing HIM pain. Just state your peace, and move on. Let him play catch up IF he wants to. You don't have to be cruel or abnoxious, as a matter of fact, a sad look of regret and remorse given with your words would probably affect him more than anything.

But don't do it as a ploy to get him back. It will not work. You must do it for yourself. Because if he is to come back, he must do it on more equal terms. He will not want to come back to someone that is weak and needy. He WON'T come back to relieve your pain. Remember, he knew what he was doing while he did it, and your pain did not enter into his reasoning.

Just don't call him. Hold him to his behaviors, but only bring them up when he approaches you about doing something differently with your marriage. Then ONLY bring them up as why you will or won't do anything differently and leave it at that. Wait for him to take your children to her house, then say 'NO, the agreement states you cannot.' and leave it at that.

I did it all... and I did most of it wrong. But in some ways I am glad that I did. Because I could have continued living with a woman who cared about no one other than herself. I could have continued giving everything and receiving nothing. Now at least I don't have to give everything to her. I get nothing in return, but that is nothing new. Right now, you are giving everything and trying to control everything thinking you have the right to do so. Well, you don't have the right and you don't have the ability. But you can hurt yourself trying.

Thanks everyone!

Well, nothings happened. I went out on Thursday night with a couple of girlfiends of mine. Had a good time and actually got hit on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Found out that my STBXH wanted to take is GF to his aunts house on Thursday night. They were having a bar-b-que and they asked him if he wanted to join them and he asked if he could bring her along. I guess they said yes, but he never showed. This is acording to his cousins wife (my best friend) who was there.

Strange way of trying to work things out!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Anyways, didn't do much on 4th of july, no $.
My best friend also told me that my STBXH went by her house on 4th of july to see if the kids and I were there. Was originally going to go to her house but decided not to.

So that's my update.

You know I'm just leaving it all in God's hands. I'm done. I think I'm pulling on the brakes of the roller coaster ride and getting off.

Dueinjan- How are you? How's you situation? Keep me posted.

I was thinking about what you wrote earlier about what you're councelor told you. My H is doing just that. He wants to know that I'm still there. In case his R doesn't work with the OW. He knows that I want to work things out and has taken advantage of that. But I don't know how he would react if I told him that I'm done. I don't know if that would push him further away or make him pursue me. If he brings up the whole "wanting to work things out" deal again, I'm just going to say that I don't believe him and his actions speak louder than words and he's only proved that he doesn't want to work things out. And I'm going on with my life with out him. I think I've done everything but tell him it's over between me and him.

At this point I feel like it's over. IF he wants to come back I want him to come back truely wanting to work things out and no more of these half-hearted attemts. I'm ready to move on with out him.

[ July 07, 2003, 04:44 PM: Message edited by: STBXWife ]

Hi STBX.

I'm here. I read your post. I feel your pain.

Well the latest on me?...let's see. I told you about showing up at OW's house to collect my children two weeks ago, right? And my WH came by afterward crying about how he was so sad. Well, I stayed off the phone for a week or so but then needed to contact my WH about the schedule for the week of the 4th (legitimate need). I left a nice enough "please call" message. He didn't call right back which means he's with OW. An hour and a glass of wine later. I leave a pretty horrible and somewhat threatening voice message. Turns out he was "out of town" with OW. He calls me the next morning before work and I completely let him have it (not good Plan B behavior, I know). Later I leave a "sorry for my outburst but as you can see, I'm still very angry about this situation." He returns with an "I understand and don't blame you message. I'm sorry. I'm sad, etc."

All this is no good. This is all part of that pursuer/avoider stuff. I'm playing right along. I think my anger lets him know I'm still playing along.

So I went to the beach from Wednesday to Sunday. I had the children for part of the time and we met half-way on Friday and he took them for the weekend (his weekend). When we met to do the exchange, I was nice and civil. The 4th has always been his favorite holiday and we did so many fun things on the 4th. He started reminising a little, I joined but then said, "I have to go now." I did not in any way interfere with him or the children for the rest of the weeekend (Sundays when he has the kids are my danger times).

He returned them to me Sunday at 5. He was looking very sad and pitiful and wanted to look at my lawn mower, etc. but I said "I appreciate it, but some other time." I shut the door and realized that my baby and her Baby Bijorn (front carrier)smelled like perfume!!! My son told me that OW held the baby while he and daddy played putt-putt. They stayed with her the entire weekend.

I felt like calling WH and screaming at him but controlled the impulse. It's SO offensive to me but I had to sit down and think...I don't think the children are being harmed and are probably actually beeing cared for better with two adults rather than just WH in his dark and gloomy apartment. I know how hard it is to take care of two tiny ones by yourself (thanks a lot WH).

Instead I logged in here and looked for you, STBX.

Here's the deal. WH seems really sad and has been saying to me, "tell me, BS, what you want me to do?" But I won't tell him what to do any more. I did this too many times. I did much of the heavy lifting in our marriage while he acted like an adolescent for a lot of the time. He can either stand up and be the man I need him to be now or he can continue to be the victim and let life just sweep him along. From everything I read, recovery is terribly difficult, it seems like there is a chance only if both parties are really willing to make it happen. I'm not driving this ship anymore. Unless something were to drastically change between now and August, I plan on filing for divorce and not look back knowing that I did what I could to save this marriage.

One night during these calls I said "I want a man who will stick with me through good times and bad -- through cancer, bankruptcy, drug addicttion, the death of a child (God forbid)- or whatever life might hand us. You've shown me that you cannot be that man. You've shown me that when you line me up next to another certain woman, that I'm not the one you choose." He mumbled, "I can be that man." Sorry but a half-hearted mumble doesn't prove anything to me (i didn't say this but it's what I thought).

It's rotten knowing that we had a good marriage or at least a redeemable marriage that could have been saved and that two children could have grown up in an intact family, but it takes two to make a marriage work, right? I still love WH very much and I don't know what to do with all of the memories from the past or all the dreams for the future, but I guess I just file them away in a compartment of my head like you do when you graduate from college or some other life altering event.

When I was at the beach house, someone had left a book called "A Return to Love" or something like that. I started reading it and should get a copy but the part that really stuck in my head was the parts about acting only with love and forgiveness. I decided that I would treat my WH only with love from now on (defined for me as gentleness, compassion, diginity, and respect). That's what kept me from acting out when my baby smelled like OW. He deserves it as a human, even if he made what I see to be mistakes - according to the book, I should not judge, so I shouldn't even call them mistakes. I should surrender to God's will. This is tough for me to do --- surrender. But I'm trying.

This is the toughest thing we will ever have to go through -- I truely believe this. Hang in there. I don't know the answers. No one does. I don't want my WH back unless he want willing to move the earth and moon to have me back (this wasn't the case in prior months - I was begiing for crumbs). But now I believe that I deserve to be placed first before any other woman in any relationship that I'm in - now or in the future. Otherwise, I'd rather be alone with my children. I've learned that this is possible too.

Sorry for rambling STBX - thanks for letting me unload these thoughts.

Hi STBX. I went back and read your post again. You were talking about how your WH might react if you told him that it was really over and didn't want him back.

My WH and I would have these conversations and he would say "how could we even begin to rebuild this?" And I would pull out the books and the maps and the plans and the MC appointment book (and, well, you get the picture).

I remember vividly, after being burned too many times, WH said, "would you even want me back?" I said, "no, I don't think I would now." He was visibly taken aback and repeated the words to himself.

Notice, he would never say, "I want to come back." It was always a question posed to me about my feelings towards the situation. There was always abiguity about his feelings.

So, here's my thinking towards my own situation -- I've got two feet planted in divorce court anyway -- why not.

You say, I don't know if it will drive him away or make him pursue me. My boss says, the definintion of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. You were sitting in court -- he hasn't left OW -- what do you have to lose? (warning: I am in no way qualified to say these things)

Well, my WH is probably not up to the challenge anyway so he'll give up. But I want and man who will fight for his marriage now (my standards have improved lately). So if he doesn't, he doesn't.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> You say, I don't know if it will drive him away or make him pursue me. My boss says, the definintion of insanity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. You were sitting in court -- he hasn't left OW -- what do you have to lose? (warning: I am in no way qualified to say these things) <hr /></blockquote>You know Dueinjan, I don't have anything to lose. In my eyes I've already lost my husband and my marriage. He thinks that I'll wait. He's stringing me along and I'm alowing it to happen. That's the problem. I've got to let him know that I'm not waiting, I'm going on with my life with out him. I've never said this to him and I THINK it'll freak him out. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I have nothing to lose. If he wants to work it out,fine, then prove it. If he says, go on with out me, fine maybe even better for me & the kids.

I know that he's going to regret it. One day he's gonna think about what we had and he's gonna regret leaving and regret not being there for the kids. I KNOW HE'S GONNA REGRET IT. But that's what he has to live with not me, I know that I did my best to try to work it out.

That's how I feel too. Yes, he will regret it. Yes, he is making a big mistake. Yes, you and your childrens lives are being affected by his mistake. But you cannot save him from the mistakes he's making even if they adversly affect you and your children too.

He's going to test you. Mine does still from time-to-time. He tries to see if I still have any hope and I still say "no." We'll end up divorced and he'll say ,"well, I tried to come back but you wouldn't have me anymore." I'm not going to buy it. I was there too. If you really wanted to save your marriage you'd do more than occasionally float questions out there.

Haven't you done more, STBX, to save your marriage? Haven't I? Let's see if they will? If not, we were geting a divorced anyway.

Been at beach too.

Thoughts here. These are important from a woman who lived the same crap you are living and made it through to the other side.
1)there is no winner in the pursuer/avoider. It's like being a hamster running on a little wheel and hoping you can really get somewhere. It won't happen.
2)They are being enabled. And being loving all the time is not good...Do you reward good or bad behavior in kids? It is reinforcing their bad behaviors. I only did the plan A thing for about 6 mos. and it almost killed me totally. They are takers and will take and take and take and expect you to give more if you keep up this and do a plan B.
3)Your stbxh needs to know that in many divorce decrees children aren't allowed overnight visits with person of opposite sex under same roof when kids are around so OW will have to get that through thick head and so will foggy stbxh. Show him legally or better yet, hit him legally with a big judges gavel ok?
4)You can cry and moan but it's not going to suddenly go away and we can't wish it away. They screwed up. They destroyed a family and a marriage.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY...
5)DO YOU STBXW HAVE A FIRM PLAN IN PLACE? I mean, if you deep down aside from all the anger and crap want to save your marriage then do you have a plan? Are you doing a good plan A right now? Have you read LMBT by Dobson? Have you read SAA by Harley? Have you decided when you need to switch to plan B? If you do NOT HAVE A FIRM PLAN then there can be no progress.

And finally
6)in the end...all of our actions are the only things we can control. We can wish they'd change...WS that is. but it's their choice to change or not too. Mine chose not too. And he's fighting to get restraining order lifted because I REFUSE TO HAVE ANY CONTACT WITH HIM PERIOD. I don't have to. And if I do, it will be about child or him not sticking to the legal proceedings. That's it. He will not get away with being the distance controller. He wants to get into the stuff of my life and still control me. No way. And it's my life now. They will not change unless they want to. And living around and under same roof with horrid enablers will not help reconciliation I can tell you.

So watch his actions. He is classic. Saying one thing...Being all sad in appearance but his actions...like asking to take OW over to relatives
home for the fourth and having the baby carrier smell like OW is saying that HE DOESN'T CARE WHAT HE DOES TO YOU OR THE KIDS. IT IS A SLAP IN THE FACE EXCEPT HE IS PRETENDING TO NOT SLAP SO HARD. Remember that. His act of pretending to be sorry is just that. He's not sorry OR THE IDIOT WOULDN'T DO IT. It's simple enough. HE's a big boy. He does what he wants to. Like the OW is some puppet master pulling all his strings. My x is a controller. He orchestrated things to where he could have what he wanted and by that time he knew I would only stand for committment and no OW whatsoever. He wasn't man eenough to do what he had to do.

And even now, xH is trying to say that I "don't forgive" and that I "am about the past" but it is what it is. He wants me to wake up and suddenly decide I do want to be his "friend" and that we can be friendly "co parents" and I will go shopping with OW and that maybe one day I will get so happy with things I'd join in on other things with them....Not gonna happen.

Either he plays or he pays ok? And you cannot control what he does. But YOU CAN CONTROL WHO SEES THE KIDS AND WHO'S SPENDING THE NIGHT IN FRONT OF THE KIDS. As their mom, you control the kids and you. You have that power. You just cannot do anything to your idiot stbxh.

I say do a good plan A and it sounds like you sure have done that already. Next comes a firm plan B along with a very cool plan B letter sent along with papers showing that you intend to go along with this divorce. And it should be made clear to everybody (including the enabling relatives) why you are doing this. Then I told his parents. It was kinda a goodbye and let them know not to enable him but they did it anyway (they said one thing and did another...remind you of anybody?) That way they knew I wanted my marriage but if it was going to be made into something dirty and a mockery then I wouldn't wait any longer and that I endured enough. Then I stood firm. He kept waffling and waffling. Then he found second OW and I said forgetta bout' it.

Yea, I am divorced. But I couldn't change him. I wished I had gotten much more TOUGHER EARLIER. That's my only regret. But I was very loving like you. And look where I ended up. Too long a plan A, too painful a long plan A and should have gotten a firmer plan and put on my game face and gone into the ring much earlier than I did.

We can all wallow in what we are dealt. When we decide to have a plan and do something concrete is when we begin to reclaim our lives. And divorce isn't the end of life. It's horrible though. It's definitely not where I want to be. But I am dealt this hand because of my xH. I am at peace because of that. And I am going to do right for my son always. I will honor my committment to God and to my son.

Let him lie and waffle to OW. Tell him you're done and if he moves out from living with OW and does something then he can come and tell you about it. Tell him if he TELLS YOU WHAT HE'S GONNA DO IT WON'T WORK. Tell him that he HAS TO SHOW YOU AND DO IT.

It's as simple as that. And remember each action has an equal and opposite reaction. So if your child comes back smelling of OW in her precious baby carrier, give him a new reaction. Serve him with papers and st and tough...Ask for full custody because your kids don't need to be subjected to this kind of abuse. Yea, its abuse. LEt's hope that he doesn't unseat Jethro as the worst WS at MB.

Peachy,

STBX has been kind enough to allow me to tell my own story on her thread and it looks like you've combined both of our stories together -- it doesn't really matter - our WH's are behaving similarly but the details are a little different.

STBX is not allowing her baby to be taken to OW's and my WH has full visitation with both children everyother weekend and does take the baby to OW's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

My attorney, friends and therapist said that I can't really tell WH who he can and can't have the children around. And if you do tell him that, how do you really enforce it? Our separation agreement does state that neither child shall be left in the sole care of an "unapproved party" (ie. OW) but my WH has broken this part of the contract 2xs that I know of with my 3 year old.

Each time he does this, I take a portion of assets that have control of and put it in my account. Tit for tat -- you broke this part of the agreement, so I'm fining you. Not very mature but it helps me deal with this issue (my children being cared for by OW) that I seem to have no control over.

Someone help me CALM DOWN PLEASE!!!

I'm pissed, pissed!!!!! I can't believe this.

My WH called and asked if I was busy. I said I'm working. He says well I just wanted to ask about the kids, so I say what about them. He says I just want to talk about the kids, so I say, "ask".

He asks about our little girl and why I didn't take her to my in-laws and I said I didn't know I had to. I told him that she would be there next Sunday. And he asked about our son. How he was doing and I said he was fine. He said something about his hair cut which I gave him and then he says something like:
"You know for someone trying to work things out you sure aren't showing it. AAARRRRGGGG <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />
I was like WHAT???!!!???!!??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I said, "Me not showing I want to work things out, what about you!! Look, you know what it takes to work things out." He then says you don't even want to talk to me. I said, "I do talk to you, but you know what it's gonna take for us to talk and start working things out. You can say one thing and do the total opposite." Then I started saying, "Look you need to think about............" then I stopped myself and said no, you know what I'm not gonna say anything.

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

What does he want, he wants me to say yes baby I love you and I want you to come back to me, pleeeeeeeaaaaaaaaasssssssseeeeeeeeee! He want's to know that I'm still in his little triangle and that I'm still playing his game! Well I'm done playing the game. CHECK MATE!

He wants to work it out, he's gotta prove it.

I can't believe he said that I don't show that I want to work it out.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

{{{{{{{{STBXW}}}}}}}}} As I said before, my WH said a lot of the same stuff as yours is saying now, until I finally had enough (1.5 years after he moved in with MOW!) and ended all contact. I think he might've strung me along forever. He was still coming over or calling almost daily, telling me he loved me in one breath, then screaming vile abuse at me in the next, all the while blaming our separation on me for not giving him enough admiration.

HE had the A (one of several, it now appears), HE has the drug and alcohol problem, HE abandonned our jointly owned and operated business, HE was verbally abusive and kicked in my door three times and thrashed the house, yet it was me who "always loved an ex-boyfriend more than him," me who falsely accused him of alcoholism and drug addiction when in actuality he'd, "learned how to drink normally," me who "stole" the business from him, me who "didn't have a clue about what it was like to be abused since he never laid a hand on me (not entirely true)," and me who wasn't doing whatever it was I was supposed to do to win him back. Amazing.

I agree with Peachy's suggested reading - LMBT and SAA. Plan B will help preserve what love you have, in case your WH ever comes around, and help you to detach gradually in case he doesn't. You have no control over his decision. The only person you can do anything about is you.

Hi STBX.

It's incredible the things they say/beleive isn't it? The good news (if there is any) is that your WH has shown you that he is well aware of what he said to you in the court room and is well aware of what your standards now are. I think he was baiting you with the ... "you're not trying very hard." To get you stired up and to see where you stand now. Stay firm - you don't have to repeat yourself. He has shown he knows what he's doing.

My WH's favorite thing to say is..."I needed you to pull me in. You pushed me away while OW pulled me in." And another (this was originally said by OW but WS likes to repeat it), "all DueInJan needed to do was to take you in her arms and tell you everything was going to be alright. You tried to return."

Bull. I was there too. I had read MB by then. I did everything I humanly could have including watching him mourn for OW. He was as prickly as a cactus. I tried but he wouldn't let me in.

Hang tight STBX. He's going to blame you for not trying. But "trying" didn't work either, did it?

I thought I was having some sort of nervous breakdown last night. My 3 yo was being a real pill and I completely broke down with sadness over this whole situation (I've felt this way for the last 2 days - overwhelming sadness). I came very close to calling WH (saying what? I don't know). I prayed to God and then I realized that I was having PMS. That made me feel a lot better - that maybe there was another reason for the extreme sadness and that it would pass. I really had been feeling like I was regressing.

Just keep going minute by minute, STBX. I think you sound incredibly strong.

STBX -

Are you out there? How are you? I'm guessing no new developments since you haven't written. I had a pretty tough spell this week - I've been very sad. I went to my IC who said this is to be expected (i.e. the ups and downs).

I've been good about NC with my WH though - even though I have to fight from calling him when I get frustrated or overwhelmed.

Wednesday night he had the kids and forgot to return my 3 yo's "blanket". He went to my parents on Thursday to return it (they keep the baby right now during the day while I'm at work). My parents said that WH stayed a their house playing with the baby etc. for an hour or more. They gave him some baked goods and I think enjoyed their time with him. Go figure? I guess it's nice my parents can have a good relationship with WH. He's a strange guy - our/my closeness to my parents was one of the things WH complained about. I'm strating to feel like the "outsider" -- mean ol' DueInJan won't play with WH.

Hi Dueinjan,
No, don't really have new developements! Haven't talked to my WH since that day he called, which was on Monday, I think. Just kind of blew it off. He's insane!

A couple of days after that call he came by my parents house to pick up my son and I walked out side with my son while my WH was waiting in the car. And from a distance, I smiled and waved hi, looking very nice and THIN! He waved back, not looking too happy for what ever reason. Just wanted to let him know that I'm going on with life and nothing he does or says bothers me anymore. At least I want him to think that.

Well I'm sorry to hear that you've been having a lot of ups and downs. Believe me I've been there. But lately I've been having a lot of ups. Trying to keep busy and not thinking about things too much. Trying to GO ON WITH LIFE! I mean that's all WE can do. Right?

Have you gone out at all since all this has been happening? I mean like, out with girlfriends, just girlfriends, to go have dinner and drinks. I highly suggest it. I've been going out a lot more now with friends and friend from work. And have been having lots of fun.

Find someone to to take care of the kids, one night and go out dancing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You need to make time for just you. Trust me, it'll be good for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Try it this weekend!

Hi STBX -

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes, I've been going out a little bit with people from work. I'm fairly new to this area so most of my friends are people I know from work. That helps. Problem is...I feel a strange compulsion to tell people my "story" once I've had a few drinks -- after I share this with some unknown (or known) person I feel kind of bad -- like I was using this crappy story to get attention, sympathy or something. I don't know, it's strange. I get what I think of as "my story hangover."

The last time I went out I had some guy tell me, "you look good for having 2 kids..." hum? well, it's sort of a complement - I'll take what I can get <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Yes, the one benefit to our situation is that it did help me take off pregnancy weight and I didn't even gain that much because I was so depressed during the pregnancy. I would tell my WH, "you didn't even have the decency to have this affair while I wasn't pregnant and could really take advantage of the weight loss opportunity!"

I've been focusing on my appearance too and doing quite a bit of shopping. My work friends call it "retail therapy" and several are going through different kinds of crises so they're always willing to indulge my lunch-time shopping habit. I do have to get control of the spending though - I won't be able to keep up this pace.

In fact, the last time my WH saw me, he said, "look at you. You look great. I've become a shell of a man." Yep. Now, OW is a really skinny little bean pole with over-plucked eyebrows but she is attractive if you like the neurotic/fragile/depressed type. Oh well.

What do your folks think about all of this? You live with them right? Are they nice to WH? Do they help watch the children? You sound like you're doing great especially considering what your WH did/said recently. Good for you STBX.

Here's a question. OW's H and I are thinking of meeting. They are divorcing too. They have no children and were married about 5 years. We have been in contact quite a bit during the A and swapped stories when we were being lied to. He lives an hour away. What do you think about my doing that. I'm curious more than anything. I don't know though - we've been through this together. He's really mad at his wife (the OW) but never says anything against my WH (he's blaming the right person - the one who betrayed him). I, on the other hand, blame her too - not my WH. Displaced anger i guess.

Rambling - sorry.

STBXW,
I have been following this thread and do feel you have been getting excellent advice - esp Steadfast. I also think you have been handling yourself amazingly well under the circumstances. Continue to care for yourself and try not to focus on him.

due in jan,
I think you are a truly strong woman. I have followed all your posts also - even on the other board. I think it is great that you are being so supportive of STBXW.

A side not to peachy (have been meaning to post this but get so busy as I just got in and am too keyed up to sleep so I located this) jethro must have some sorry attorneys. The other poster was correct in stating about her control of who XH takes kids around. You live in the same state as me and this is what the Ga Supreme court ALL agreed on:
We recently held that it is an abuse of discretion to restrict visitation rights by prohibiting their exercise in the presence of a certain person. Brandenburg v. Brandenburg, 274 Ga. 183, 184 (1) (551 S.E.2d 721) (2001).

1. Appellant contends the trial court abused its discretion in prohibiting him from exercising his right to visitation with his children in the presence of Pike whether or not they marry. It is the express policy of this State to "encourage parents to share in the rights and responsibilities of raising their children after such parents have separated or dissolved their marriage." O.C.G.A. § 19-9-3 (d). In this regard, we have held that a trial court abuses its discretion when it places an unnecessarily burdensome limitation on the exercise of a parent's right of visitation. Katz v. Katz, 264 Ga. 440 (445 S.E.2d 531) (1994). See Griffin v. Griffin, 226 Ga. 781, 784 (3) (177 S.E.2d 696) (1970) (divorced parent has right of access to child, which may be denied only under exceptional circumstances).

This was a Ga case very similiar to your's in that the FBS/XW had a stipulation IN D decree that her XH couldn't bring child/ren around his FOW. The Ga supreme court ruled that was an abuse of trial court's authority unless it could be expressly demonstrated that this person posed a signidficant threat to the child/ren. Her mere status as the FOW did not count.

All the Justices concur.

FMM's XW tried to have her atty get the same stipulation you have in your decree/agreement, but even I, w/ no legal training, was able to halt that idea in its tracks.

You ought to applaud your attys and jethro ought to fire his! tew

Hi Dueinjan,
I'm sorry I haven't been able to post my reply to your question. Been really busy with stuff and the WH and OW are having problems and OF COURSE, WH is blaming me for them. AARRGGGGG! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I'll fill you in later.

I haven't forgoten about you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WH and OW are having problems and blaming you?? What??!! I'm interested to hear about this.

So, I've had to have some communication with WH due to child care needs this week. I've decided I'm only going to treat him with respect, calmness and kindness -- but that I'm still going to file for D as soon as possible in August.

The only problem is that when I act nice, kind and calm I feel like he starts thinking, "well, she sounds like she's ok with all of this now." I'm not.

But any way, he gets off work at 12 in the summer and doesn't work on Fridays (teacher) so I said "hey" could you drop by the house while I'm at work and look at the lawn mower because it's broken. And while you're at it...could you mow the grass and weed the flower bed? I just got a phone message that he did all these things and a few other chores as well. I locked the house doors but left the garage open.

Is this still Plan B? He actually loves to do "house stuff".

Hi Dueinjan,
How have you been? Did you ever meet with the OW H? Why are you planning on meeting? What are you two going to talk about? I'm sorry for all the questions, just want to know more about what the meeting is about.

Don't you think both of you would be too vulnerable to meet? I mean, do you think that maybe you two will start getting emotionally attached? I don't know, just my opinion. I think maybe you should becareful about it.

Well I haven't been really posting b/c nothing has been going on...........until Saturday.

I know everything I did was like against MB principles and procedures but I didn't care anymore.

Well I recieved a call from my WH,he asked if our S could stay over at my inlaws an extra night, he had already stayed over on Friday and I said ok. He was telling me that they were going to have a b-day party for one of his aunts. So I said it was ok. I hung up and started feeling really depressed. I wasn't a part of the family anymore and I thought maybe he was going to take his OW over and my mind just started racing. Well I called my BIL and asked him to call my WH and ask him to call me. Well he called right back and I said, "I was thinking maybe I can take the baby over to the party and stay with you." "I mean i thought maybe it would be ok, but if you're planing on taking someone else I understand" I I know I should have never done this, being in a 'Plan B' and all but I just wanted to see what he would say. Well he says, I wasn't planing on staying there too long but let me call you back.

Well about an hour later he calls back and asks if I can drop the baby off. He's like I dont think it's a good idea that you stay because I don't really think you want to work things out. I was like WHAT? So I started, you haven't proved to me that you want to work things out. Then he starts saying, I'm still confused, blah blah blah. I got upset, I told him that I was fine and that I can go on with out him and he's like I know, I know you're fine and I know we'll all be ok, and so will the kids! I was like you know what I have to go, cut him off and hung up.

I called him at his moms about an hour later and told him that was going to drop off the baby.

Well I got there we talked for about a minute, gave him a ring he gave me for Valentines day last year and told him that if he ever wanted to come back to give this ring back to me. I originally wanted to give him the promise ring he gave me back in high school but its stored away some where. It was kind of me saying good bye. He's like, I know I F*cked up. I feel like I'm putting a gun to my head and pulling the trigger. And I told him, you're not the same person anymore, you're different, you've changed. And he's like I know. I told him, you'll come back, I feel it in my heart. We have a bond. And he's like, it's unbreakable. We hugged, I gave him a kiss and said good bye. I left in my car and I just cried for about an hour. I just drove around crying and thinking about everything.

Well this was on Saturday. He called me yesterday and told me that I should becareful who I talk to b/c people are talking about me. I was like, what are you talking about and he started telling me that people were talking about what happened on Saturday. I told him that I didn't care who knew, and I didn't think I did anything worng. And he was like I don't think you did anything wrong either and said if he were in the same position he'd probably do the same thing. Then he starts saying something about not wanting to fight with me and he wanted us to remain friendly to each other if we are to ever have a chance. Which I didn't understand what that was all about.

Anyone knowing was totally immpossible. I only told my best freind and she swears to me that she told no one and I believe her.

Anyways I ask who told him that and he said it was his GF, she over heard two girls in a bar talking about it. Which is a total lie. I think he told her. Well apperently she wasn't too happy for whatever reason and I guess they started arguing about it.

Well he called back about an hour later asking if she called me. I was kind of like what? But I said, yeah she called and started telling me to leave you two alone. Which is a total lie. I guess I wanted to get her in trouble. I wanted him to get mad at her. (He wanted me to play his game and I did) He was like, yeah why don't you just leave us alone. I was like what, she called me. And I did leave you two alone. He started saying that he was going to leave her and he wasn't coming back to me. He said, I hate you and I don't want you anymore. I was pissed by this time so I said, I don't care if you leave her, leave, I don't want you anymore either.

UUUGGGHHHHHHH!!! So that's the whole long story. I know I shouldn't have done a lot of the stuff that I did but, I don't care. I'm done. I don't think that it'll work anymore.

I think I just want to stay away from both of them from now on.

UGH! Dear STBX, I think you need to go deeply into Plan B again - not necessarily to save your marriage but to save yourself. You seem so much more at peace when you haven't had contact with WH. I know it tough with the children but you need to set a schedule with him and stick to it so that these "can I have the kids tonight" kinds of calls don't have to occur. It not fair to you.

I went through the same thing - there is always a reason one of the other of you can call when there are kids involved. I finally set a schedule and when my WH would call and say "I haven't seen OS lately, can I pick him up from day care?" I'd say, "Listen, we have a schedule and we need to stick with it. Maybe some day it won't be like this and we can work more flexibly together, but right now I need a schedule and so does OS. I don't want to have to see you all the time." I really did want to see him but I feel so much better when I don't.

I can't really comment on the events of last Saturday except to say that I know how hurtful and confusing it all is. You know I participated in all types of similar dramas myself. I have to say though, I do kind of like the part about giving him the ring. It's all an effort to say, "don't you understand???? I'm serious!!! You can't keep doing this to me!!!" I did the same thing but with his personal stuff -- gave him his college diploma, took him off the car insurance, filed the separation papers, refinanced the house, etc. etc. I hoped that SOMETHING ANYTHING would open his eyes to what he's doing.

You can't save him from his mistakes. You have to save yourself from being hurt from them any more. I'm sorry STBX that you're going through this.

Regarding the meeting with OW's H -- we were going to do it this upcoming weekend but I haven't heard back from him. I don't really think it's a great idea. Already, I'm feeling kind of rejected by the fact that he hasn't responded. He asked to meet, I suggested the weekend and I haven't heard back. GOD KNOWS I DON"T NEED TO SET MYSELF UP FOR ANY REJECTION ESPECIALLY FROM SOMEONE AFFILIATED WITH OW!

We'd probably just sit around and talk about the hell we've been through over the past year --guess I could do without that!!

Well, keep me posted. Take care - go dark. Not for your marriage or your family but for you.

P.S. My "lawn boy" did a nice job weeding the flowers and cutting the grass.