I just shook my head and left.. - Marriage Builders® Forums

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Ah...the brain of the x. Some are still intact, others are scrambled.

Had to go to x's office yesterday to pick up son after work (my office is close ..maybe 8 miles from his). Son is playing with secretary's child there. X says he wants to discuss birthday party for son so I go in his office. I sit down and we talk about the party. It's my year to have it and he says that "you sure give the best kids' parties and I want you to do that. I will pay whatever it costs to give him a great party. You just design it ok? And please be good about the Family Values thing. She wants to come and she wants to bring her parents." I said that she is welcome but those aren't my son's grandparents. I said that I want to have some comfort level there and that is that. Meanwhile I glance downward at him. He has no wedding ring on. Then I notice that there is an overabundance of men's cologne floating around. Way too much. Then we talk and he disagrees and I prepare to leave. Before I leave he says..."I know what your problem is. And it's ok...I was told this would happen. YOU AREN'T OVER ME. YOU STILL LOVE ME. You haven't moved on yet. He then goes on to say that until I become more "openminded" that I will never be in a serious relationship...WTF???? Like his being "openminded"?? OW, gambling, still cheating, and saying this crud to his xw wearing a ton of cologne and a noticeably missing wedding ring. Methinks he is bored...married again and bored.

WTF? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I gently inform him that I have not harbored such feelings for him and I suggest he remove any daydreams from his brain. I do tell him at this time that I have been dating, I am resolved in my moving on and that my personal life will never be a topic of discussion and that's as much as he will ever know unless I am to remarry. I say that just because I haven't gotten knocked up TWICE (like FV) by 2 different men, lowered my standards and became a playboy model, and ran off to vegas like Ms. Spears with my first fling, that it must mean that I am not moved on? How is that? I spell the word "narcissist" as he has trouble with large words and told him to look it up online. I shake head again and walk away. No yelling, just walk away.

I leave with my son.

I am sorry here...but do WS really believe we pine away for them after , in my case, tons of crud and trash?

Please let me know, but do most WS really believe that we want them back? I am talking after point of no return. Do the WS and their permanent or semipermanent Affair Partner talk about how because we haven't either remarried or are living la vida loca that it is because either we are jealous or we are secretly in love with our x's?

Is that common? This man really believes this.

Being in the medical field, I always think we can find cures for ailments. And if we can figure out how a WS thinks really, then maybe we can prevent the wayward part from happening. Or if they become a "terminal WS" as my x is, that we understand their actions so we can simply manage the situation..as it can not be cured.

How many people here have been told or asked this by their x/WS? I mean when it's past point of no return? If there's alot, then I think it might be that there is alot of ego's out there and possibly very similar characteristics that can define the type of person that can be susceptible to being A WS.

Kinda like the three f's in heart disease they look for initially...signs? If there were distinct characteristics/personalities/signs then maybe it could be helped. You see, I am thinking that narcissism or narcissistic tendencies is one of the characteristics of a potential WS.

Well Peachy,

I don't know that it's all WS that do this. It probably has more to do with other factors. In your WS case, you mentioned being a narcissist. If he really is, even if you do get married again, he'll be sure that you're just trying to "cover" your true feelings for him that still linger.

(I hope you didn't gag too much reading that last sentence! But I would guess it is what he will think.)

Mine... he keeps saying how I can't move on, can't let go, etc. I have some items of his that I have refused to give to him until he had paid off some debts he still owed. He has tried every way he could think of to get me to give in and give him stuff before then (even though agreements we have in writing says he'd get them when the debts were all paid.) Every time I turned down one of his latest proposals for getting the stuff back without everything being paid off, or refused a proposal to change the way we had something set up in the divorce, or whatever, his response was that I wouldn't let any of it change because it was my way of having to keep in contact with him....that I didn't want to "move on" and "let go."

Yeah, because I should just roll over and let him have whatever he wants just not to have to deal with him. And there were times that was tempting, but I spent enough time during the 10 years we were married giving in like that, and I'm now standing up for myself.

The good news is.... recently, I seem to have gotten to him enough that he finally paid off the rest of his obligations that involved me. As soon as I can arrange it, I will be getting the rest of his items out of the house, and then I WON'T have to deal with him anymore (no kids, which all in all is a blessing!)

Peachy,

I actually find that pretty funny. You should have posted this in one of LH's funnies threads.

Did he tell you who it was that told him this would happen?

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Before I leave he says..."I know what your problem is. And it's ok...I was told this would happen. YOU AREN'T OVER ME. YOU STILL LOVE ME. You haven't moved on yet.<hr /></blockquote>ok...I guess I will be the one to tell you what I think...as unwanted as it will be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

He isn't too far from the truth in that statement.

I have been on the MB for a couple of years now...and I only "lurk" on this board.

Your postings about him, IMVHO, are indicative of someone who has not let go...or else it's the drama of it all that you cannot let go of.

You just happen to notice that he wasn't wearing his ring. I propose that you were LOOKING to see if he was.

These "dating" vents that you go on are another thing. You are trying too dam hard...you are running in circles with these (insert one of your abundant adjectives) fellas.

You need to reach a comfort level with yourself and let whatever he does go...whether he is wearing his ring or not...or too much cologne...or still fraternizing with 'monkeyho' (I believe that is the term that you use)...the list is endless as to ways you still stay connected to him and what he is doing.

Yes, I realize that I run the risk of incurring the wrath of peachy... I've seen how you get "testy" with people that have posted in opposition to you. But, enough is enough...and someone has to be brave enough to step out there and say it.

Oh well...you don't scare me none. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Besides, we are ALL free to voice our opinions and that's what this is...MY opinion.

committed

Committed: You're wrong.

And no, nobody that knows me should ever be "scared of me". Wow. Thats funny.

You did not however contribute to the question I posed. I wanted to know if anybody else's x did this. If there is a pattern we can establish among WS or if there is alot of narcissism that WS seem to have. You just glossed right over that and dug in and said things that you're way off base on and that I didn't ask for your opinion on.

If somebody needs help and asks my opinion, I will help them. If I need a question asked, I will pose it. I don't have many divorced friends at all and that's the only reason why I am still here. This is where I get feedback.

I am damn sick of having somebody say something waaay off base about me then (pre-emptively before so that if I stand up to their absurdity)say that I will attack them for doing so...Well, if you didn't harbor that supposed "non fear" that you have, then why even add in "wrath" part.

If you were here to add positively or help , then why didn't you do it? You have your opinion, but I do not openly trash somebody for just venting or posting. And no, in turn I fear you not...I could care less in fact. If they have a question, I answer it if I can help.

In retrospect now, I see that you deliberately hijacked my thread to write what you personally think about me and then say if I respond back to you negatively that it was because I was going to anyway. What kind of stupid logic is that?

Oh and btw when you've got a ranting xWS in front of you who talks with their hands and used to always take off their wedding band, it's almost impossible not to notice it. It's waving in front of you. So get a grip.

If you have something to add that is helpful, then add it. If you want to trash somebody, then call it what it is. If somebody asks an opinion or question on a subject and you jump onto a thread and use it to say anything but the question at hand...Maybe you lurk alot because you don't have anything to add that is helpful. Or because it's easier to deconstruct somebody that you don't at all know from the man in the moon rather than answer the question at hand.

It makes some people feel good to just be damn negative to somebody else. For no other reason than the disclaimer "Besides, we are ALL free to voice our opinions and that's what this is...MY opinion." (words of the Committed one).

So you did that...why? Because it's a free country and you can say whatever you want to even if it is not true or biased or rather mean spirited.

I hope that made you feel better. I just think you're wrong.

WIWH:
I bet Billy did find that funny. It was rather funny. Wierd but funny. I had no idea where that came from. The man was waving his hands while he was loudly talking (he always did that) and it would be impossible not to notice it wasn't there because that's what he used to do when cheating). Did that happen on the funny thread? Or was it just a joke.???

Penguin: And it's understandable he'd say that. You are holding him accountable financially for something he owes you to do. It's not about him or missing him at all. But is he a narcissist? And not all narcissists parade around in front of a mirror all day...they just think they're wonderful and are basically in love with themselves.

I think with regards to my former, he is in love with himself. And that's fine. They make a great couple.

One characteristic about a Cheater/WS is that they do not have the ability to remove "them" from an issue. That "they" are always present in it. If there is a problem for example, with getting a reservation at a hotel, then it is because either the clerk has a problem with "them" or they are "jealous" of them or something like that..they wished they were "them". Never accept a situation for the fact like no rooms or already booked up. That is what my x would assume.

I think that is one . Characteristic one. The "me" stays in everything. The "me" is center of the universe.

BTW...had to cancel FL trip but am going to water park right now and tomorrow will go to six flags or lake lanier.

Any other characteristics anybody can add? You know how to deal with somebody if you understand how they tick. If there's a symptom checklist of wayward characteristics, then we might know how to deal with things before anything bad happens...or in my case, just better manage the few times we deal with our x's.

Typical peachy post when someone offers something up other than what you want to hear. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I don't fear your wrath...I said that I've SEEN it on posts...BIG difference. That's why I mentioned it. I was prepared for it...and one thing about it, you didn't disappoint.

SO, let's try this again...

Question is..
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> I wanted to know if anybody else's x did this. If there is a pattern we can establish among WS or if there is alot of narcissism that WS seem to have. <hr /></blockquote>My answer...

No, my X didn't accuse me of this because I STOPPED being concerned about every little thing that he did...or didn't do...wore or didn't wear...smelled or didn't smell...who he was hanging with...calling...or other such things.

There...

In the futire I will remember that you only want responses that are not in opposition to what you believe.

I don't think it's productive to surround oneself with only "yes" people. Nor am I a "yes" person so I can't offer up anything that is of value to you.

committed

[ August 06, 2004, 02:55 PM: Message edited by: committedandlovingit ]

Well, I'm not sure about the narcissist.... I have wondered, he sometimes seems to have narcisstic tendancies, but after reading the definition of a true narcissist, I'm not sure he's quite that extreme.

He is very self-centered though. And very much a controller, though he uses passive-aggressiveness to do his controlling.

So, with my ex, I feel it may be more of a way for him to feel he is still exerting control over me.... the reason for the way I act and the way I have handled things is that I just "can't move on," so, essentially, he still IS controlling my actions and reactions... at leat, according to him.

Also, with him, I think it is a very big ego thing as well...which may lead back to the narcissim theory. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I honestly think he was enjoying the idea of two women "fighting" over him. He didn't start really getting angry with me a lot, and accusing me of still holding on, until I said I was done.

And one other thing - I'm thinking the whole "cakeman" idea might play into it too. If we have moved on, then we are no longer an option for them. But if we haven't (in their minds), then they could always have us back if they really wanted, they just don't want us.... it's their choice, and they still have that choice whenver they want, by their thinking.

Hi Peachy,

Yes, my H's exW is like that. She talks fondly about the string of broken hearts left behind her, all the men who pine for her. She thinks my H refused to see her because 'it'd be too hard on him'. She had 3 A's that we know about and was just cruel to him by the end. But she thinks he's just not over her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . He was mad as hell, now he's just disgusted. What an ego this woman has!!

And fwiw, I dont think you want Jethro back. He's become a reliable source of amusement for you (and us). Like watching a bad soap. Sad, trashy, but genuinely interesting <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . I mean, you cant make this crap up!

Who cares what that nutjob thinks! Have some fun this weekend! - Dru

[B][/B]

I hate to jump on here Peachy, but this is a pretty accurate post. I think you are not over your husband yet......NOT EVEN CLOSE. Untill you completely let go of all of the anger and hurt, you won't be over him. Noone can post the things you do about someone without deep emotional feelings. I don't think you can hate someonone/thing without loving it. I ofcourse mean no offense. I think it is perfectly fine that you vent and what not (it is entertaining, and I think you have a great writing prose), but you are in some serious denial if you think most people on here belive that you are over your X. It is plain as day that you still are not over him. Am I saying that you want him back physically...NO, but clealry you are stuck in some stage of revocery that you have not moved on from. I know I am right about this as I have great experience with this......MYSELF. I really hope that you find peace with it. You seem like a person that would be a great partner, your XH seems like a grade A prime Loser, he will eventually reap what he sows, I have no doubt about that.

My ex hasn't voiced it in so many words yet, but I have a feeling he thinks the same way. After 2 years of not talking at all due to a no contact order, he is trying to worm his way into my life. Suddenly, he is my "best buddy", telling me how his job is, the sale of the house, etc. He even suggested we sit down and talk about the past and where we are going in the future! HUH? WE aren't going anywhere. I think because I am friendly and polite (like I would be to any aquaintance who I dislike but isn't worth the effort of anger or revenge), he thinks we are on good terms. NOT! I wouldn't be in contact with him at all except for the kids have this odd notion that he's a wonderful guy and want to see him. So, for them, I stay in contact and diligently supervise their visits with him.

I'm just waiting for him to tell me I do it to spend more time with him. BLECH!

committed,

you hit the mark, dead on, ADDICTED TO DRAMA and status, and a few other things.

oh, and the old timers that read and learn, see it quite clearly. . .

I will not even say anything else other than your words were way below the belt. I know alot of the oldtimers and consider many of them personal friends. I have never said anything like that to you...in fact, I have usually sided or been respectful to your opinions.

The part of being addicted to "other things" as you wrongly suspect, is more than below the belt. I honestly cannot remember you writing something that cruel to anybody before. I have no addictions and that has been professionally verified btw. My only usual habit has been posting here and opening my life up to people I thought I could ask about the two areas of my life that I didn't have people to ask about..Nobody that I knew or socialize with here are divorced. If they are parents, they are still married. So I guess wrongly that I asked people here because, hey...we are either going thru divorces or adultery or similar things.

I'd like to end in asking you why would you write that? Did it do any good? Or was it meanspirited? Did it answer any question? Or did it continue on hijacking a thread that was starting for another whole issue. Did it make me rethink who I am or make me cry or do something like that as I believe you wanted it to do. No. It made me rethink alot though.

My life is no longer open season here.

And for the record, there are a few posters here who DO struggle with addictions. I am not one of them though. And they are reading this forum. And they post on this forum. One of them personally knows how I am praying for them and their recovery and encouraging them and I find the accusations of labeling anybody here at all as an "addict" wrong and shameful.

justpeachy,

I emailed you about the dating vents and rants. Now I have to pitch in here. I agree with others on their opinion that you HAVE NOT completely moved on. I disagree with the delivery of their messages/analysis/replies to you.

You know very well my situation from the A 'till Dv'ed and now in the dating market. Our ex's are still in the fog or showing their true self !. I could understand your posts/vents. I am in plan C if there is such a thing. I am in no contact still w/ my ex b/c in the current situation she is not happy with her life and she still blames it on me. She has tried many venues just to pick a fight or annoyed me ... I kept in silence and NO RESPONSE. That works for my situation. I said you are not completely moving on, b/c you still expect exH to do the right thing or decent thing. IMVHO, you have to find a way to deal with exH ... he either still in his fog or this is his true self. Either way nothing good come out from exH right now.

Vents here ... I am still lurking <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...

-rh-

[ August 07, 2004, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by justpeachy:
My life is no longer open season here.<hr /></blockquote>But peachy, it is. This isn't a post whatever you want and everyone pats you on the back forum. It's an advice forum.

You say that we don't know you... not at all. By your words, you are known. We only know that about you which you have written here, true. And it is filled with condescending, judgemental, obsession, control, money, status and looks.

EVERY time people post on your thread and call you out, you get mad and defensive and sometimes take a "break" from the board. That's your call. But it isn't cool to insult the people who spend their time trying to help you. No one is here to bash others. Try to be more open to constructive criticism.

Ending with this once again:
"Not everyone who agrees with you is your friend. Not everyone who disagrees with you is your enemy."

I am not taking a break.

I have alot of friends from here and I can feel free to email them or call them now. With the exception of one who healed her marriage, my mb friends are all going down same road as me now and understand completely what's happening. We are just dealing with it.

Opinions are just that, but when remarks about people being addicted or making suppositions about somebody being on "other things" is just crap.

It used to be really easy to post here b/c it's easier than individually calling my friends or writing them. We check up on each other this way and when something big would happen, we'd email or call.

Sometimes though the easy way may not be the best way.

In the end, if I want the opinions of somebody who is mean spiritied and 100 percent not trying to help me in any way, I can just call up the x. If I want advice, I believe it is best that I ask those who really know.

My x is gonna be the same man he is, and my friends tell me that yea, he's going to keep doing outrageous things and I should just quit being shocked by any of it at all. That is a given. Dating will not be a piece of cake but it's not bad either. I just did not think I would find myself in this place at this point in my life. But clarity comes in time.

I do hope that some people will think about what they write as it is to be a board/forum to help people. If you have a sincere opinion and the person asks you for it, then so be it. But if somebody just digs in to somebody and obviously does not like them for whatever reason, then just do the decent thing and leave them alone. I come from the mindset that if you don't build somebody else up, then shut up. If you cannot help somebody, why hurt them. There is validity in the statement, truth hurts, but when it is not the truth and stated in a self serving manner and void of any concrete basis, then it is serving no one but the sender's needs.

And redhat, thanks. I want to tell you that you are right. I still need to get un-shocked when he does stupid foggy stuff. Need to just say, well here it comes again. And it will. You've got mail as well.

Peachy, I know I am often 'on your case' about things you post. And I often don't pat you on the back but I ask questions because I think you are being short-sighted about things.

xpB is right. We are here to help each other - not to be cheerleaders. Though helping may include cheerleading, they are not always the same.

I stand with Committed and WIFTTy.

I think you find it acceptable to blow up when Jethro is an idiot. It makes you feel like you have power. Truth is, in this situation, you might have been better off to say, "I hear you about the party and I'll let you know if I decide to take you up on your offer. Meanwhile, I need to go." And then leave. Try not reacting.

I think your massive forays into dating are because you have not yet reached the point where you can fulfill your own needs.

Where you are at peace with yourself.

I think you are using dating to give yourself value - as if your personal value depends on having a man in your life. Maybe a form of codependency.

As to addictions....I think we all have them. I don't think WIFTTy meant chemical addictions. There are lots of others. There are many things to which you can be emotionally addicted.

I say these things because I do want to see you grow and move on. Not because I don't like you. But because I have been around the block a few more times and can see things in your posts that you may not be able to see because you are so close to the situations and your view of it is so closely tied to how it affects you emotionally.

I reserve the right to ask questions and to challenge you when I don't think you are seeing reality.

Peachy, I want you to have the best life possible but that begins with feeling peace within your heart...not repulsion, not anger, not desperation. Satisfaction that, without awards, men, identity assigned by others, affirmations from others, or other things, you are 'good enough' just like YOU are.

I thank you and since we've talked for along while, I will tell you Cindy that I am at peace with myself. Very much so. I only chose to start dating again when I had become more than happy with Me.

Period.

I didn't feel the need at all to do that for over two years. Almost three. And I was happy. Have you ever read that I wrote how I felt "parolled"? How I was in the end glad to be over with things in the legal sense? Of course most people just read what I post about me and not see what I post to other people.

If I were the person you described as lacking confidence or self worth, I would not hold the elected position in my state that I hold and would not be able to do and go the places I do and let my hair down and just go with the flow.. No, I have posted about the few areas of uncertainty in my life. One being I never thought I'd get divorced after I chose to marry, and become a single mom and two, being I find dating confusing at times because I didn't think I would be here.

I do value me, but above myself are the ones I love dearly. My son at the peak. I am at peace and thank you for well wishes. Life is a journey and I am learning along the way.

Best wishes to you.

There's nothing left to explain. Peach's pen has decided to go on a permanent vacation.

I pretty much ignore Peachy's posts (why bother posting when she only wants to hear a certain thing), but I see that nothing has changed. It's too bad. I think if she'd listen to the wisdom and insight of posters like Committed, Princess, Cinderella, Lemonhead, and others (including those who've in the past tried very hard to help her but have since moved on-- after being blasted by Peachy and seeing that it was a waste of their time to post), she'd really benefit from it, but she seems to still be unwilling to hear it. It's the same ol' story, and honestly, it's sad to see.

As to addictions....I think we all have them. I don't think WIFTTy meant chemical addictions. There are lots of others. There are many things to which you can be emotionally addicted.

cinderella,

That thought didn't cross my mind either. It didn't dawn on me that he could be talking chemical addictions.

What I do find disturbing is this comment...

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> And for the record, there are a few posters here who DO struggle with addictions. I am not one of them though. And they are reading this forum. And they post on this forum. One of them personally knows how I am praying for them and their recovery and encouraging them and I find the accusations of labeling anybody here at all as an "addict" wrong and shameful.
<hr /></blockquote>Why put someone out there like that? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Even though no one was "named"...I feel like a confidence was just broken. I am guessing that the person does also. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Trust would be out the window for me on that one.

committed

Committed, WIFTT, LoveMYEx:
I have to agree. Looks to me like justpeachy is pretty good at dishing it out but not very good at taking it. I was a recent victim of her blasting because I dared to offer my opinion and the background behind it to someone who asked. The issue was dating and I knew my opinion might not be popular on this site but I WAS HONEST. Peachy chose to pick parts of my post and fire away. She called me, the BH, a cakeman and a caveman. I was ready to tell her that maybe she should go get laid, then she might be able to loosen up enough to get the giant bug out of her a$$ but decided to ignore her instead.

To answer your question justpeachy, my Dv has been final less than a week so I haven't had much time to think about it. I can't tell if my exWW thinks I still pine away for her but, since I am moving on with my life, I don't care what she thinks about me anyway.

lol - peach - this is funny in a sick, sad, JAWS sort of way.

Ever seen sharks when there's blood in the water?

Thicken your skin, girlfriend. Sharks do as sharks are.

Yes, 'we all', if reading properly, "know" other posters... Looking from outside gives always a better picture... and sometimes wrong interpretation too...

So, yes, 'most-of-us'? see the same when reading JP's posts...
Sometimes we give advice and expect her to apply them in her life... more often she's kind of forced to admit not being over her X and D, she does not accept that, and makes people frustrated, because - don't we do the same in our lives, or did not we do, before we really (is there ever REALLY after all we went through???) healed!
(By the way, if anyone 'healed', why are they here at all??)

So far so good.

BUT
Many times JP said she wants to get just answer on questions she asked.
More often, JP just wants to vent.

If she thinks that helps, and MB is here for help - why wouldn't all of us respect that??

Help or skip!

We can turn on lights to make things visible... but someone can See only by dawn... why wouldn't it be waited for?

Hope dawn is not far from JP.
Nor for any of us as well...

I have been thinking all day of what I could say that would let Peachy know that I am sorry for what has happened here at MB over the last few days.

Ilogged on to try to explain how wrong it is...how this must be making you feel, and I see the post from "Belonging to Nowhere". There is nothing I can say that can come close to the eloquence expressed by that post.

Peachy...we are just where we are in our journeys. There is no right or wrong to our personal stages. You do what you need to do to be happy. I admire you for bucking the satus quo. I've seen MB'ers married within months of their divorces that have not gotten the grief that you have gotten to try to find a sense of fun in your life.

I have read a lot of your posts and have found you optomistic and resilient.

Don't let 'em get you down girl.

allison

I, like Allison, thought about this post most of the day. Then I breeze by this evening and see that Belonging to Nowhere articulated precisely how I felt and what I wanted to say if I only had the words.

Peachy, we all struggle with "Moving On" in our own ways. We create our own journeys in doing so. When investing years upon years in such an important relationship, then having it ripped-out from under us and crumble before our very eyes, recovering from that is no small feat.

Just always do your best and be your best, and never lose your sweetness or hope for happiness.

Love to All,
Jo

<blockquote>quote:<hr />(By the way, if anyone 'healed', why are they here at all??) <hr /></blockquote>many times, to help others, many times to cement the understanding that we have gained, for if we can explain the solutions and our wisdom to others, then we feel comfort in validating our knowledge base.

healed and healing is not a set specified time, its a state of mind, and a state of emotional well being. . .

there were times several years ago when i would write similar stories about my X, and [b] amok.now[b] would chime in and ask me why i let my X yank my chain like that. . why am i still emotionally involved with the idiot?

i would always get defensive. . . and be angry with myself and with X, but slowly, i continued to work on myself. . . to be the person that i want to model for my kids. . . here and in person. . . i needed some MB 2x4s as well. . . but i would reflect upon them after my initial reaction, and most times, they would be right. . I just was too emotionally charged to see it. . .

learning comes in many forms, some straight forward, some nice, some blunt. . . MB is an internet chat sight, its all here to learn from, take what you like and leave the rest. . . . and its also a small living classroom/experiment to analyze and learn from, if you take the time to do the work. . . . to read, think about, and reflect upon, and ultimately learn a ton of basic human behavior at the extremes . . .

wiftty

Peachy,

I would like to offer you something I learnt in the years dealing with my X ,his lawyer and our children who X(WS) tried to alienate from me as the "evil mother" (BS) i.e. only parent who was a parent! In the beginning reacting to him and his criticism of me meant I had to justify and explain my actions through my lawyer as well as to our children, because they made sense to me (they still do by the way-but I explain and justify my behaviour and choices in the way I live my life to no one -do not have that need as all can see in my behaviour what I stand for) . It took me a long while to learn I owed no one this. Facts are facts and my life is my life, unique and distinct from anyone elses as is yours and everyone elses .

One has no need to explain or justify to anyone ever why one makes the choices one does simply as a reaction to a criticism , real or perceived. Post here if this is what you want and need to do. It is your right to respond only to those posts which you find enlightening and helpful to and for you. If that is what you need, then be thankful you are being helped in this manner. It too is your right to give no response and no reaction to those posts which you find penetrate a feeling that you find somewhat hurtful. By not responding/reacting/attacking posts which are out of "sync" with what you believe simply is, it will also give you a chance to mull these posts over to understand if there is any truth that one day you will consider relevant, or if they have no application to your life whatsoever you will ignore them totally.

I believe that all who post/lurk here are still searching for some type of help or closure in their own lives or to pass along some learning/insight to help others to add some meaning to their own experience in a community that has walked in very similar shoes in a life altering experience. I hope you take all who post to you in that positive light.

Enjoy your son and your life and keep writing/ venting/posting if this too gives you pleasure and/or fulfills a need. I have always enjoyed reading your posts and see many similarities in your X's behaviour and mine.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />...for if we can explain the solutions and our wisdom to others, then we feel comfort in validating our knowledge base.<hr /></blockquote>... and so we need a confirmation of our own wisdom... ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Anyway,
'Years ago', when you were in still-pain, reading someone else's wisdom and their suggested solutions, did you accept them 'right away'? I'm sure not at that time but when YOU were READY. If they had 'forced' you to do much earlier, you might have not rejected them openly, but wouldn't have accepted advice either, right? Not because you didn't want to, but because you COULD NOT, for you still had some unresolved dilemmas, issues, emotions...
And if someone said - gee, it's been months/years! and you are still emotionally involved!?!!??... wouldn't it put you kind of down, maybe provoke anger, thinking of those people they are rude, cruel or mean? Kind of 'raping' your speed of recovery...

I am not over yet (I admit <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) and people's wandering why not I take different way (I mean, they are right! and I am $&#$%*! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ), but not all of us react the same...
I admit and my pain is bigger but closer to resolution, vs. denial where the pain is lesser and prolong healing... at least I feel so... I look at straight and eat it row, not to be eaten... and some people just run, or close their eyes... then when they stop running they face it... different human beings nature...

Shortly said - we can heal similar ways, but duration is different.
Some people move on very soon, for some it takes much longer...

Anyway, I agree with all you wrote (in the previous post), especially with:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />its all here to learn from, take what you like and leave the rest<hr /></blockquote>All I say (can add) is - there shouldn't be consequences if not... (not learning 'right away' is hurting already enough, no need to add more...)

And, we who were/are going through the same... must have more understanding for each other... and if not patience then letting it go in peace...

Allison, Resilient, I am glad... thanks! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

There's a cycle here.

Peachy vents... (and vents... and vents some more) and someone decides to risk her wrath and posts some "tough love" sort of advice (the type that doesn't coddle, enable, or throw a pity party) and peachy gets mad, a few others agree with the "tough love" advice, and peachy gets madder, and then Kayla shows up with a cutting, shrew remark to help peachy feel better and a few others rally around peachy so that her feelings aren't hurt, and those of us giving some sort of "tough love" advice or observing these things are called "sharks" or "sick" and told to leave, don't post, get lost, etc.

It's a cycle that has happened this EXACT same way since the very first time I posted to her when I came here approx. a year ago!

Peachy, I'm pretty sure I can say that no one's out to get you, no one has a personal vendeta against you, no one delights in your suffering, and those who post to you do so with hopes that you will see this cycle, and this drama that you really do seem to thrive on and seem to be unable to let go of.

I don't doubt for a moment that you've experienced much pain and heartache, and I won't make any attempts to give you any advice, as I have in the past, because I don't believe you will be willing to receive it. I have nothing against you and only hope that you will experience abiding peace and joy in your life as you continue to grieve, heal, learn, and grow through your post-divorce years.

[ August 09, 2004, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> BUT
Many times JP said she wants to get just answer on questions she asked.
More often, JP just wants to vent.

If she thinks that helps, and MB is here for help - why wouldn't all of us respect that??

Help or skip! <hr /></blockquote>Well, I happen to think that help comes in all shapes and sizes...and can be well received, or not so well received.

I also happen to think that "vent" is just a fancy word for ranting and raving (the majority of the time). I do not think that is ever helpful. It keeps the person grounded in the drama and doing NOTHING to remove themselves from it. I cannot see where it hurts for someone to point that out to someone. If anything, more harm is done when people sit around and just nod...and "yes" them up..<pat> <pat> <pat>

What I perceive as MY help might not be perceived as help to the person. So, it isn't up to me to "help or skip". It is up to the person to accept it as help or hinderance...and for them to skip it.

A simple... "thank you for contributing but I don't think that fits my situation" would be acknowledgement without the drama...and with some class to boot. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sometimes people just want validation for continuing in their own destuctive behavior and that is all that they want. It can even be veiled in the questions that they pose to the forum. I'd like to think that others would be able to see through that.

It also doesn't help when poster's start a dogpile...or a circling of the wagons.

JMHO
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