How long to wait before you date... - Marriage Builders® Forums

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Hi everyone.

My situation is that I'm EXTREMELY lonely. Yes, I enjoy being a mother, I still miss my STBXH terribly, I'm working on getting over that.

I'm just wondering if what I need is to go out with someone else? I really miss companionship, the one thing I was missing my entire M. I have been lonely for 7 years, but now I'm lonely with no one to beg attention from.

I was just wondering, how long should you wait? How long before you start looking again and more over, how do you know that you're ready?

I'm ready not to be lonely, but I don't trust men, any man that is, anywhere right now. I'm afraid of being hurt all over again. But I NEED companionship. I'm so horribly lonely I don't know if I can stand it.

Suggestions?

[ August 30, 2004, 10:36 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]

Ok, we go over this a lot....

You have a STBX - that means you are still married. Conventional wisdom holds that married people don't date people to whom they are not married.

If you are dating to escape loneliness, you will only find yourself in worse shape. You will be dating for the purpose of medicating your pain. That's why drug addicts use. Plus, you will be only using the person you date.

The general rule of thumb is that it takes something like one year to get over 4 years of marriage. Doesn't hold true for everyone. But that is what is recommended by the people who went to school to learn how to help us help ourselves.

If you are lonely, look for volunteer activities or other group activities.

In his autobiography, Terry Waite, who spent years in solitary captivity in Lebanon, quoted Augustine as saying:

To have peace, you must know yourself. And to know yourself, you must be alone.

This doesn't sound like the time you need to be dating. This is probably the time you need to spend seeing your contribution to your present state and working on your personal issues.

I guess I was only asking because my STBXH is doing it, and he's happy as pie. I swear it only adds to my misery to see him so blissfully happy while he slaps me with D papers, C battle and does anything he can to get what he can "get" from our failed M.

Yesterday I had to sit in a room with him with a person from friend of the court and hear him say that he cancelled MC after 1 appointment because "well, we both knew we were getting D, what's the point in going?"

For some reason I couldn't open up my mouth and say "But I wanted to continue going so that we can learn to communicate for our daughter!"

I just don't know what to do with myself. My IC says to stay away from him, my doc says to do what is best for my child, Friend of the court tells me to keep in contact w/H. I don't know what to do!

I have been trying to date my STBX since he left, and with no results. It only makes me feel more miserable. I look back through all my years of life and all I see is that every man in my life has created this pain for me.

That's something me and my IC are working on. I just don't know how to heal myself from that. I need suggestions.

P.S. I think my quote is quite appropriate for my situation right now. I do love the feeling of love, but I have no room to be loving another man right now. I can't even love myself.

Dear Heartache-

I really feel for you, I've been there myself. Keep in mind that your STBXH may appear to be happy as pie, but looks are deceiving. Remember also that what comes around goes around, his actions will catch up with him eventually.

I agree with the other posters. You are still married so until the divorce is final don't date. Even more than that belief however is the my belief that you are in no condition to enter any type of relationship right now. You need to work on yourself and get to a point where you love yourself again. Then and only then will you be open to loving and receiving love from another person.

The lonliness really stinks, but with it comes a new found strength and a new friend - Yourself! Work your way through your pain. The end result is a new improved you and a much better life.

Keep posting this board is a great source of support as we know what you are going through.

Take care and God bless!
K

Along with St. Augustine, you can read the Consolation of Philosophy by Boethius. He was imprisonned and later executed. He wrote the book while imprisoned.

Or you can do what I do and read A Confederacy of Dunces.

I'll add just another con to dating. You say all the men in your life have caused you pain. If you start dating in this vulnerable state, you'll be attracting the kind of men who will do this all over again.

[ August 11, 2004, 10:28 AM: Message edited by: greengables ]

I suggest that you wait till the DV is done to date. Prior to that, make friends, go out in group activities, do things that are fun and intriguing, turn off the TV, read books - at bookstores, smile at strangers and practice relating to people in a non-dating way. You get so used to interacting with your spouse that it's a bit weird to go back to the world of dating where ANYTHING can happen... rejection, acceptance, passion, etc. It feels big and new and scary all at the same time.

That being said, loneliness is countered with friendships. If you can make friends with women with whom you can relate... or get involved in some kind of volunteer/charity thing. That way you're out being social in a context; you don't have to be the stranger approaching strangers. There's a lot of wisdom in avoiding being along with a man till after the DV... it looks bad and will inflame your DV no matter what stage it's in.

The loneliness will fade. It's a phase and is part of mourning. It will last for as long as it lasts. I went to bookstores and sat in the aisle for self-help:relationships and read every book there was. Later, I graduated to more enjoyable "interest" books and some casual conversations in the bookstore. They never went anywhere but it was good practice. Then, I started to regain my sense of humor and one day I met someone I knew was the "one". We're engaged now and will be married within a month or two. I never thought I could trust again... and it's still a struggle sometimes.

I like being alone. I like being with her even more. Be strong.

I am of the opinion to get out and start meeting new people! Now, this may lead to something or it may not. I have definitely felt much better the last 2 months by hitting a few clubs/bars and talking to women, getting a few numbers and hooking up once or twice. I have no problem with this as my STBX is with another guy---this 2nd A began prior to us calling it quits. She now lives out of state but comes back periodically and she seems like she doesn't care about anything except trying to get my goat again where I ignore her which I know drives her crazy.

So, not sure whether you should "date" or not, but by all means, get out and see what is there! The social scene will help you as long as you are with a few friends, do not go alone.

One case of adultery does not justify another.

Get a life. Find and do things that make you happy.

But not things that would make you feel guilty.

And don't medicate away how you feel by 'hooking up". You have no idea how slutty I think that phrase sounds. I do believe I would drop like a hot potato any man who even mentioned that phrase to me. Wait, I would slap him before dropping him.

It sounds like you guys have been attending the "Howard Stern School of Recovery". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

[ August 14, 2004, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: cinderella ]

Nature: OH Crap! Now you've done it! You have suggested that somebody start trying to be happy before the paperwork is done. Don't you know you could be crucified for suggesting that here? I made that mistake once, I swore I would never do it again. I wholeheartedly agree with you though. Oh what the he!!. Never say never, right? I went out with several after I knew my marriage was over, had rebound fling, dating someone very special now. My divorce has been final 2 weeks and I don't remember ever being happier. If I had custody of my kids, you couldn't knock the smile off my face with a 2X4.

You guys have it all wrong!!! Dating is not going to make anyone happy if they are still married.

Look at it this way...when you are going thru a divorce, it can make you miserable. AND vulnerable. You think the best thing would be to date or "hook up". But it's not. You'll have baggage from your marriage that will affect any new relationship you might start. It's called a "rebound". And in the end, you'll get hurt and so will the OP.

What is wrong with waiting?? It's not forever, just a little while, until the divorce is final. It's never killed anyone!!

Take some time to get to know yourself without your spouse. Take some time to figure out what makes you truly happy. That, in the end, will help you to be happy and more content in any future relationships.

Give it a try and see how it works!

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

There is definitely a difference between dating and getting out of the house with friends. IMHO when you can no longer say that you are “extremely lonely”, then you will be on the way to healing. I personally will not “date” until I am healthy enough to enter into a positive relationship.

To me this has been a great time of self-discovery and an opportunity to seek and find true happiness and satisfaction with myself. Sure I’ve stumbled on the way but don’t you think that will make more likely to be successful in a new relationship.

I’ve been on these boards and around life long enough to watch many people hurt themselves and their children by forcing a new relationship on themselves. Does it make sense when experts say to wait a year, as some do, to date before your divorced? Does it make sense to have your children meet and get attached to someone you are just starting to date? Not to me, because, again IMHO, you are once again setting them up for loss in their life and not respecting them by not allowing them to properly go through the grieving process.

This simple thing about dating is definitely a selfish and important subject. Make well imformed decisions from your brain and not from your genitals as so many people do.

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

I just want to clarify my comment "hooking up". I have met a few people for dinner and drinks, nothing more. I do go out with friends and enjoy myself whether I speak to a member of the opposite sex or not. So, I never say the words "hooking up" to another woman or anyone else for that matter, it is just a catch phrase, I do not want or intend to offend anyone. So, please understand my position, I mean no offense here on these boards which I have helped me a great deal.

Yes, I have gone out on 2 dates which has led to nothing more (and no further dates with these people). These various social engagements has helped me personally in the following manner:

1. I am able to leave a very cold and lonely home which is now half empty and ready to be sold.
2. I am able to enjoy my friend's company at social gatherings in the presence of members of the opposite sex.
3. If I am with another woman, I enjoy their company, conversation, laughter, etc. for a short period of time.
4. Ultimately I feel better by getting out and meeting new people and making new friends.

So, I am not advocating this type of lifestlyle, as always, IMHO, you need to decide for yourself what you want to do. I knew I needed to get out and transition myself into my new Life and this is one way to do it. I also am active on my own in many ways (gym, fishing, hiking, etc.).

I found myself very unhappy if I was home alone staring at the 4 walls and almost getting into a self-pity type of mood. So, I get out, hike, fish, etc. and meet new people and feel much better for it.

I am not at all in any sort of R at the moment and do not plan to, just have fun and take everything one day at at a time. I do realize all of us in this D situation are vulnerable emotionally.

Anyway, just wanted to clarify and maybe help HHM in some way. I know this has helped me and I was simply trying to help her. HHM, maybe you can meet with your friends and do some fun activities together?

Seems to me, you are not ready to date regardless of the divorce being final or not.

This speaks VOLUMES to me.
"I'm lonely with no one to beg attention from"
and
"But I NEED companionship. I'm so horribly lonely I don't know if I can stand it."

I could see you hooking up with just about ANYONE simply because you NEED to.
Also, I could see many people willing to take advantage of you because of this neediness.

I don't know about all of this!

First; Heartache hurts me did not use the term "dating" in her post!

Second: If we are "radically honest" with ourselves and those we choose to companion with about the situation; what is the big deal?

I don't think that Heartache hurts me is talking about sex. It sounds to me like she's talking about helping herself "get healthy". We could wallow in our misery, alone for years waiting for our WS or XS to "come to their senses" and rejoin the marriage or for the D to become final, which can be a very long time in some states.

I'm with Nature and deafjeff on this one and I'm faced with the same issue right now. I feel that Heartache hurts me should use her better judgment, go out & let her hair down a little! The "roller-coaster ride" takes it's toll and a little therapeutic-sanity with friends for an evening has got to be refreshing! Her friends will keep a watchful eye; I know that mine will! Good Luck HHM!

Ummmmmm....unless I am completely stupid, the title of this thread is "HOW LONG TO WAIT BEFORE YOU DATE"

Yes, she is talking about dating. Not necessarily sex. But dating. And if it's ok for her to date before her divorce is final, then it is ok for any spouse to go out on a date.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am making an interesting "Hmmmmmmmmmmm...." observation.

I find it interesting that three separated guys all find it okay to date while still married, but vilify their WW's for doing that. I note that those three are primarily focused on getting their own needs met and it seems that their Taker is in control.

I also find it interesting that the two guys who waited until their divorces were final AND have each taken some time for their own growth and working on themselves, are also two men whom I would trust and have demonstrated their wisdom and maturity. I note that those two are primarily focused on mutual meeting of needs and it seems as if their Givers and Takers have a balance of control.

So Heartache Hurts Me, I think that shows you the answer to your question. If you "date" while separated and before growing and taking the time to work on yourself, the men that you attract will most likely be focused on how they can use you to meet their own needs--not necessarily considering you or your needs. They will want to TAKE from you, and that will be how you are treated. If you "date" after the divorce is final and after some personal growth and taking time to work on yourself, the men you will attract will most like be wise and trustworthy, and be focused on mutual meeting of needs, will most likely be focused on knowing their own needs and also aware of yours, will consider your needs, and will want to GIVE to you and TAKE from you--and that is how you will be treated.

So which do you want? You can decide for yourself.

CJ

Once the divorce papers are signed and finalized then it is ok to date another IMHO. The divorce papers are a big deal, your divorce papers will consume most of your spare time. I'm going through negotiations now, and its difficult.

Many wait until they are setup in a new house until they date again, giving some time for themselves to get prepared.

Until the papers are approved and you feel comfortable in your new place, don't date.

Just my opinion.

Mitzi

Yes, she is talking about dating. Not necessarily sex. But dating. And if it's ok for her to date before her divorce is final, then it is ok for any spouse to go out on a date.

FaithfulNewCJ

I find it interesting that three separated guys all find it okay to date while still married, but vilify their WW's for doing that. I note that those three are primarily focused on getting their own needs met and it seems that their Taker is in control.

To Mitzi & FNCJ: OK; let's call it dating. Surely you are not saying that HHM would be doing the same thing that WS has done! Please compare apples to apples for a moment! If A had not happened in HHM case, would we even be having this conversation?

Perhaps if you focused on offering advice to HHM on how to deal with the loneliness and properly socialize rather than bust on 3 men who are working on their loneliness issue, albeit respectfully, your posts would be more helpful. Making bold assumptions and disrespectful judgments usually has negative results so please be careful where you tread!

I would like to respond to Fishracer on this thread, so temporary threadnap!

Fishracer, if you remember, I responded to you once or twice with fairly wise thoughts. I don't know if you know ANY of my history or not, but let me fill you in. I have been on MB since Sept. 11, 2000 (yes, I'm born on April 20th also--Columbine Day). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Anyway, I'm not a virgin at this, and I have life credentials of my own. My exH had an A with two women at the same time, the month after my D was born. Then, he moved out-of-state on Feb. 3, 1999 to live with yet another OW. He was gone until Father's Day that year, and only came home "because the kids deserved two parents" not because he loved me or wanted to work on our marriage. He stayed in touch with OW, and on the Millenium New Years Eve, he left us again to go be with her. This yo-yo continued through 2000, and I found MB and lurked for several months--learning.

My exH was abusive. He punched holes in walls, kicked and threw our pets, grabbed them by their ears, grabbed me, pushed me, and hurt me. He broke my things to scare me, burned my journals so I could not prove he was violent, and torn up all my marriage books because they were bullsh*t. He left me at the side of the road miles from home. He locked me out of the house on a freezing winter night. Meanwhile I learned.

My exH was diagnosed bipolar rapid cycling, borderline personality disorder, and anxiety disorder by a psychiatric doctor--so it was not just a spiteful exW exclaiming that her ex was nuts! He actually, really did have mental health problems that were destructive to relationships and raging, blaming, splitting were "normal" occurences. Meanwhile I learned.

My exH continued on in his life and had 11 other affairs of varying degree: everything from ONS from flirting with waitresses at work, to physical affairs that lasted for a while, to online explicit sexual contact, to webcam cybersex, to meeting people in person whom he had met online, to email intercourse. These also were not "imagined" or made to be worse than they were, because I printed some of the stuff and kept them just to remind me that it really was raunchy and I didn't make it up. Meanwhile, I learned.

In the end, my exH refused to deal with his raging abuse, with his mental illnesses, or his unfaithfulness--so we divorced. That is when all that I had been learning began to work in me, because I began to see that not only was he abusive, but I volunteered to stay with a man who thought it was okay to treat me that way!! I covered for him! I saw that not did he have 3 mental illnesses, but at work I tried to make excuses for his odd behavior and not let co-workers take the brunt of his distorted thinking. And I saw that not only did he have 13 affairs that I could document, but I was so desperate to be loved that I chose to stay with a man who treated me like leftover meat.

So, I have put in my own time with pain and loneliness and learning. I have ached for months and months wondering where he was. I have missed holding feet under the blankets too. I have longed for the comfort of a hug from a male person, or the pure pleasure of holding hands. And dear Fishracer, I have tried for FIVE YEARS to save my marriage. I have been in your shoes and I have been in Heartache Hurts Me's shoes. I am not just hoity-toity telling her not to date until her divorce is final because I'm being judgemental. I'm telling her to wait because I've been around the block AND because I've suffered every pang of loneliness and loss myself.

I've been on MB and seen what happens when a BS comes on here and is vulnerable. I've seen countless time where the BS develops an emotional attachment to another BS they are posting to here online, and whether they want to admit it or not, they are having an EA. Yes, it's painful to hear, but the two BS's are starting an affair just as real and addictive and painful as the one their partner was involved in. Just because the WS did it first doesn't make it right!! And yep you're right about one thing--if the WS had not had the A in the first place, we would not be having this discussion because then the dating person would be the WS!!! Separated does not mean divorced...it means separate and unavailable.

Fishracer, Heartache Hurts Me entitled this thread "How long to wait before you DATE." To me, that implies anything from a light-hearted get together with a friend of the opposite sex, to getting out there at the clubs and seeing what's available, to one-on-one dating with someone, to going on a date because you kinda like them...on and on in various shades of gray. And after all my years of experience, and all that I have been through, and all that I have learned, it is my STRONG advice to wait until AFTER the divorce is FINAL before doing any dating.

And YES--I put my money where my mouth is too. I took that year during the divorce to develop my own self-esteem...to get to know myself...to learn to be responsible for my own feelings...to grow through the suffering and loneliness, not avoid them...to get my life in order...to prepare myself emotionally and mentally for going to court...to make sure my kids were stable and doing okay...to get my head together...and most importantly of all, TO GET MYSELF HEALTHY. It is unrealistic and unhealthy to want to go out dating because I am extremely lonely and NEED companionship. And furthermore, it has been 1 1/2 years since my divorce was final, and I have been on a grand total of (what was it??) 9 one-on-one dates I think. Well, something like that. My point being that when I did decide to start dating, I didn't look to just fill my needs of loneliness--I chose to date because I thought I had the tools I needed to be a good partner.

No, I do not recommend sitting at home staring at four walls. No, I do not recommend watching TV every night and eating a frozen TV dinner. No, I do not recommend entering a convent. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> But I do STRONGLY recommend that some time be taken until the divorce is final as a hiatus from relationships to learn about yourself and what went wrong and what YOU need to learn. As an example, I attended a lady's abuse support group, I went to concerts in the park, I went to line-dancing classes with a whole group of friends (about 8 or 10 of us), I went to dog shows and car shows, and I went to every single park in my county--and took my dog with me. See?? Not sitting around moping, but rather doing things that are healthy and not necessarily relationship focused.

I do not back down from my previous opinion to Heartache Hurts Me, nor would I change my advice to you. In my opinion, it is wisest and healthiest to not date AT ALL until the divorce is final. Period. I have some life experience and MB experience to back up my opinion. If you disagree, we have different opinions--that's all.

CJ

[ August 17, 2004, 03:49 AM: Message edited by: FaithfulNewCJ ]

Fishracer,

I did offer advice in my first post to HHM. And no, I was not busting on the guys. Just trying to offer advice that goes with "MARRIAGE BUILDERS".

An affair is an affair is an affair. It's all the same. Dating OR having sex while still married is an affair.

Some of the advice offered on this site anymore really irks me. If you don't believe in the principles of Marriage Builders, why be here?

And no, I'm not saying to sit around and wait for your spouse to return home. If the marriage is over, it's over. But make sure you are ok before moving onto a new relationship. Get rid of the emotional baggage first.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FISHRACER Said “””Surely you are not saying that HHM would be doing the same thing that WS has done! Please compare apples to apples for a moment!”””

OK. Dating while married is dating while married. Having sex with someone other than your spouse while married is an affair. Any more apples needed.

FISHRACER Said ”””Perhaps if you focused on offering advice to HHM on how to deal with the loneliness and properly socialize rather than bust on 3 men who are working on their loneliness issue, albeit respectfully, your posts would be more helpful. Making bold assumptions and disrespectful judgments usually has negative results so please be careful where you tread!”””

OK let’s discuss how at least one of these 3 fine respectful men is working on his lonliness issues. This is taken from a thread by darn near the exact same title a couple weeks ago.

DeafJeff Said “””After I found out about my now exWW's As I started seeing someone. Besides her being 20 years younger, between the 2 of us we had more baggage than O'Hare International Airport. I made it very clear from the begining that I was still married and could not get involved. It was just a sexual relationship and it was fantastic, the best I have had in 23 years. ………………She gave a badly needed boost to my trampled ego, self worth, and general outlook on life. This old man wore her out.”””

Sounds respectful and healthy to me. I don’t know anything about you FishRacer, but be careful who you swim with……….And Heartache, above is the type of man that a needy lonely person attracks.

FaithfulNewCJ

Yes, I remember your input and you are correct; it was wise and I appreciated it then and do now! I was not aware of the extent of your situation or your pain. You are most definitely a "veteran" who has been there, done that to more extremes than most who post on here, including me! My WW sounds similar to your WH except for the physical abuse and has similar medical issues. You are also correct that you've put in your time, pain and loneliness; no doubt about it. The truth is: I ache for you and respect you for what you've done! I see that I pinched your "passion" nerve a little and I'm sure there was smoke coming from your keyboard. That's good. Your emotions are still intact!

Perhaps the issue at hand is really about perspective. It's been a long 15 years since I've "dated" anyone but my WW. I have no interest whatsoever in putting myself into a position of establishing a relationship with another W and won't until I know that I'm ready! My history has shown that to be true. WW history shows that she is a betrayer. (Look at my 1st. post) I loved her and hung with her through some very bad times early in our marriage and throughout. The A proves that she remains a betrayer. That's just a fact of life! Maybe I'm in a different position since I have been there, done that as well and am better prepared to recognize the signs if inappropriateness is nearing. I am not one who "falls in love" by chance as if some unexplained phenomenon just happened. It is solely my choice to do so; or not to do so! WW is not like that. SH says that is why she will now float from relationship to relationship for the rest of her life "falling" in & out of unrealistic love . Reality is; she does not know what love really is; just like your WH does not. They think they do; but there is no way! (Again from SH!) Like I said; I respect your choices and your position on "dating". I disagree if you're talking about socializing with "friends". Nothing wrong with that. I never meant to suggest that dating (as you define it), emotional attachment, physical activity, etc. should happen prior to D.

Mitzi

Take some time to get to know yourself without your spouse. Take some time to figure out what makes you truly happy. That, in the end, will help you to be happy and more content in any future relationships.

Good advice, I absolutely agree! However, during this time I strongly feel that interaction with friends is healthy and appropriate. (Read above) The implication that I got from your post is that HHM should stay home and read self-help books until D. If I was wrong about that; I stand corrected and apologize. Remember, we as humans are social creatures. It's why God produced Eve for Adam. Allow room for some "appropriate" socialization and maybe offer some tips on "appropriate".

LostHusband

OK. Dating while married is dating while married. Having sex with someone other than your spouse while married is an affair. Any more apples needed.

I have a friend whose W "checked out" on him 8 years ago. Went searching for happiness with several guys. To this day; WW refuses to D, but continues cycle of A's. By your logic; HHM should refrain from dating for 8 years? I do not feel that's reasonable. If for no other reason; imagine how much more depressed HHM would be if she thought it could be 8 years+. Perspective!

My Summary: I mis-stated the "traditional" view of dating. Should have changed it to "socializing with respect to aid in recovery!" CJ: Your dedication to morality is second to none. Please do not allow bitterness to ruin your future. Your advice to HHM for socializing was good. In order to grow; BS's must venture back into the world; taking small steps out of the loneliness. The time-frame for this will be different for everyone. Utilize friends with a caring eye for you and don't be in a hurry. If BS will not D; perhaps at some point we will need to make that decision. CJ: I've been lurking since 1999, although only reading marriage-help ideas; never infidelity until recently. WW would never read MB, HNHN and most recently SAA. SH knows the reason and so do I. You are a saint for what you've done; but I've been around here for a while myself. Good Luck to all.

Oh no, being blasted again!

From LostHusband: <blockquote>quote:<hr /> And Heartache, above is the type of man that a needy lonely person attracks.
<hr /></blockquote>I don't know if that is supposed to be attracts or attacks. I wish you could contact my rebound. She got what she was looking for too, her only regret being the physical relationship ended before she was ready. It was not destined to be a long term commited relationship and we both knew it. She had a good time, I had a good time, it made absolutely no difference as far as the legalities of my divorce was concerned. It helped me move on. I elected to not sit around and feel sorry for myself and have done no damamge to anyone I have been involved with. My marriage was over in every way except the paperwork. It had been for years, I just wasn't aware. I should thank my WexW for pointing it out. Seeing someone very special now, can't remember ever being happier, and this relationship isn't physical. Yet. Granted that is her choice, but I am happy. I am working on me, she is working on her, we are helping each other, we are working on us. There is life following the end of a bad marriage, everyone has to find it at their own pace. It might find you if you are hiding in a dark room but sometimes it helps to poke your head out of your shell a little.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Fishracer:
 I have a friend whose W "checked out" on him 8 years ago. Went searching for happiness with several guys. To this day; WW refuses to D, but continues cycle of A's. By your logic; HHM should refrain from dating for 8 years? I do not feel that's reasonable. If for no other reason; imagine how much more depressed HHM would be if she thought it could be 8 years+. Perspective!<hr /></blockquote>I totally agree with socializing with respect making sure to take into account your mental state of being at the time.

However, your friend could simply divorce. I know of no state (presuming he's in the U.S.) that doesn't either grant single signature divorces or have a clause in there for abandoment. To me it's about doing the next "right" thing.

I do believe that what you're referring to as socializing is healthy but not the dating that was referred to earlier.

Fellow MB-ers and HHM,

I have a suggestion here. I doubt if all this wrangling about who's dating and who's not and when is really not what HHM had in mind. I think wisdom tends to say wait until the divorce is final for romantic involvement--but people are free to make other choices and do so every day.

I think the thing that might be HELPFUL here is "How do I survive the awful loneliness?" or "What tactics did you use to get through the loneliness?" If you read the original post, the main topics I heard were "I feel so lonely I could die", "Maybe I'll just go out and get some male companionship", "I need to be with someone" and "I don't really trust men yet" (CJ paraphrase). My guess is that HHM felt the ache of loneliness and the only thing her mind could think of to deal with that loneliness was "go out with someone." Well hey--let's give her some ideas of OTHER things she can do besides starting an ill-timed involvement and getting hurt again.

HHM, for me, I have used several tactics to combat loneliness.

* My exH bought a puppy right before he left. At first I didn't want another dog, but as loneliness set in, I was SO GRATEFUL for that little mutt! He was lively, funny, playful, energetic, and he ALWAYS was thrilled to death to see me. So when I was lonely, I would play with a puppy who just could NOT get enough of me!

* Okay...this will sound nuts but I slept with a big teddy bear. Sleeping in bed alone felt so cold and unsnuggly, and it felt like the bed was a huge, empty bed! So I got a huge teddy bear almost my body length (I'm pretty short, so that's not saying much) and put him in bed. Now bed feels a little more snuggly and when I roll at night I roll into something instead of empty space. I'm sure a body pillow would also do the trick.

* I got a few really, really, really good lady-friends whom I could call day or nite (and they could call me day or nite) and we just got thru it together. I specifically chose lady-friends so I wouldn't have to deal with sexual tension. We agreed to help each other thru the long nites, or call whenever we were lonely--sometimes we even went to each other's houses and just talked in the middle of the nite (what the heck--we're both awake!!). When I really felt in a bind or going crazy, I called them.

* I got out there a little more. I personally do enjoy certain specific TV shows, but I also sort of "made" myself go to social events and things...like concerts in the park, coffee shops, civic events, classes, movies, etc. Just DO stuff where there are people there and get to know a few of them a little bit. If you're shy, tell yourself you are going to practice talking to one person, and just be brave. Sometimes, tho, I honestly just went where there were people and enjoyed having folks around without talking to them. Other times, I ended up chatting away with the people on the blanket beside me at the concert in the park, or meeting a dog who got off his leash, or a little girl who was running with a pinwheel and got away from her parents...

* Choose where you want to go and go. What do you like to do? Do you like to hunt, camp, fish? Go do it--maybe invite someone to come with you. Do you like dog shows, cat shows, car shows? Go to them. Worst case scenario, you will have a whole day of something you really enjoy because YOU like it! Best case scenario, you will meet another person who also likes it, and you will have a new friend. Give some thought to this one, tho, because as an example, if you like bars, the people you meet are probably also going to be people who like bars. IMHO, I do not want to end up getting involved with someone who likes bars, so I don't go there. I try to go places where I might be interested in the KIND of person who goes there.

* JOURNAL. Write down how you feel. Use a notebook and pen, or type it, or whatever, but write it. Write it like it's a letter to someone, if you like, but WRITE! And write exactly as you think it in your head (swear words and all)!

* Volunteer. I find that I am a lot less lonely when I am working with homeless people serving them a hot meal--because I feel blessed and they are glad for my company. I find that I don't feel so lonely when I am working with women who are still currently in an abusive situation and struggling to get out. They NEED a friend who will hang in there and not leave them because they aren't quite strong enough to leave their abuser. It takes the focus off of me and what I need/miss, and puts the focus on others. So, HHM, find a charity or organization that you are passionately interested in, and give them some of your time! Shoot, I was a nightowl and could never sleep--felt the worst and lowest at night--so I joined the Rape Crisis Hotline as the midnight gal, and I loved it!!

* Attend to yourself. When you feel lonely, don't try to avoid it...embrace it. And then be gentle to yourself. Take a hot bath, listen to Frank Sinatra, buy yourself some flowers--in other words pamper yourself a little bit. It's alright. You have permission to be loving to HHM!

* Turn to God, if you have a relationship with God. If you do not, think about maybe starting one. For some people, having faith in God and spiritual support is a wonderful comfort. I do personally believe in God and have a relationship with Him, and when I feel awfully lonely, I look up all the verses in the Bible that say, "I will never leave you or forsake you." What a wonderful comfort! I may feel lonely, but I am never alone.

CJ

CJ: SIMPLY AWESOME!

Good Luck HHM.

FR

I went to yoga class... a lot.

And once I got back into my home, I started huge projects like painting everything. Making shades. Planting shrubberies.

And I spent a lot of time online.

I'd go out to restraunts or pubs with a good book.

Books discourage unwanted attention pretty well. I guess brainy chicks aren't good canidates for a pick-up.

And sometimes, I just acknowledged the fact I was lonely and I'd have to live with it. Loneliness is not the worst emotion. I would sit with the loneliness and think about why I was lonely. Mostly I was mourning the loss of some dream, or of the past.

OK. My turn. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

In the nearly two-and-a-half years between the time my wife deserted me and the time her divorce was finalized, I was lonely and I was hurting. I was also enmeshed and embroiled in the divorce process and my feelings about my wife, and very uncertain about what might happen to me. Would I be forced into bankruptcy? Would I lose my home and my job? Would my wife ever wake up? How many years would this continue to drag on?

Did I socialize? Oh, you better believe it! I rebuilt relationships with family and friends from every epoch of my personal history I could, because I knew that I needed a lot of support, and I didn't want to become too much of a burden to any one person. Because what do you suppose a large portion of our interactions comprised? Yep! We talked about my pending divorce, my wife's self-destructive behavior, and my own difficulties dealing with the situation.

A good time to be dating? Not! Yeah, I know that some people get into dating relationships at that point in their journey. The sympathy or empathy generated by feeding this need for support can not only help to create an emotional connection which may become quite powerful, but it can also serve to distract from the pain and other difficult feelings associated with the divorce. A new relationship can become an addictive drug which covers over those feelings - and prevents them from being processed in a healthy manner.

As a side note here, I want to address Heartache's comment "I guess I was only asking because my STBXH is doing it, and he's happy as pie." As still reeling said, "looks are deceiving." More than that though, feelings are deceiving. A false high fed by destructive energies is a whole world away from true happiness.

Some months after my wife was granted her divorce, I "fell in love" with someone new. I confess that I chuckled a bit at Fishracer's claim that he is "not one who 'falls in love' by chance as if some unexplained phenomenon just happened. It is solely my choice to do so; or not to do so!" If anyone could make that claim, I should have been able to make it: my head has always guided my heart, and despite a normal cycle of "crushes" in my experience, I had only permitted myself to "fall in love" once before (with the girl I married). But even for someone who is highly cerebral and almost preternaturally self-controlled, the heart can never be completely tamed. Playing around with dating is more dangerous than playing with fire - and I wasn't dating or even doing anything remotely close to it!

But, I was divorced now, and my ex-wife and I had not spoken in over two-and-a-half years. So this was a good time to pursue a new relationship, right? Not!. I had a lot of healing to do. Fortunately, the young lady I fell in love with did not want to be anything other than friends, so for more than a year I have been blocked from dating, unable to pursue her and yet unable to get interested in anyone else. Frustrating? God help me, yes! But...

I healed. I grew. I explored personal passions and possible futures. Friends tell me that they have never seen anyone grow and change so much in just a year, from someone so broken to someone so vibrant.

Sure, I'm lonely sometimes. But, I still socialize. It's not that hard, even for someone like me, who seems to have an "Ignore Me" sign imprinted somewhere on my person. When I go to various events I rarely end up speaking to anyone unless I myself start the conversation, and I get very few personal invitations to social-type things. But, that doesn't mean that I can't invite someone out to lunch or have them over to my house for dinner or...whatever. I'm no more lonely than I choose to be.

Only recently have I begun daring to issue such invitations to women, as opposed to men or couples or groups. I suppose that could be considered dating, although so far I have only made such overtures to women who already know that I am obsessed with someone else. These are friends, so they understand where I am coming from.

What's significant here is that it has been over four years since my wife left me, and only now do I believe that I may be ready to begin a new relationship. I look at my young lady friend and thank God for how she handled my interest in her - because only the combination of her "rejection" with her open-hearted friendship could have showed me that I could love someone again without either needing them or hurting them.

God, I believe, protected me. And I believe He did so because He knew where my heart was throughout - that I was not seeking my own self-interest so much as I was seeking His Will and His Plan. Sure, I've got a Taker, and it would be nice to feel loved again. But in all honesty, what I miss most is the opportunity to Give. In His time, I believe He will grant me that chance again. But I have to wait on Him, and in the meantime He has given me much to do...

That's my story. For a change, it's not a systematic exposition of principles. But it's all relevant to the subject of this thread, and I hope someone can pull a lesson or two from it. The bottom line is that when it comes to building a new relationship, it shouldn't be about your loneliness or even your happiness. It's about finding the road you are supposed to be on, and then in God's time encountering someone who is compatible and complementary and who is walking the same road.

What a great story, Gnome.

How does it end? I'm dying to know. She's still free, isn't she?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by greengables:
 What a great story, Gnome.

How does it end? I'm dying to know. She's still free, isn't she? <hr /></blockquote>I don't know how the story ends.

Yes, she's still free. She's still not doing any dating at all, and she still hasn't given me any reason to think that she will ever want to be anything other than friends. But, we are friends, and she knows that I love her (not just that I'm "in love" with her), and she knows what kind of man I am. That is enough.

Maybe, when it is the right time, God will change her heart. Or maybe He will change mine. It is not important to me which He chooses, because right now I believe that both of our hearts are where they are supposed to be, and that God has used the situation to bring growth and healing to both of us. In fact, I believe He set this whole situation up!

But God is not a cruel tease; I believe there will be an end to the story, and it will be a happy one, regardless of whether it is her road God joins with mine or someone else's.

Right now the road isn't easy. But it's a good road.

Fishracer,

Glad to see you finally understood what I was saying. Just because I've been here a while doesn't mean I'm still pining after my ex. (Check out my signature line! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

GDP: What a great story. This is such a sticky topic (as emotional issues often are). I respect your views and appreciate you sharing your story.

Thank you.

Just a quick note to all who have responded to this thread; I had a discussion with our preacher today (from a "larger" Church of Christ in Florida) about this sensitive issue. He knows all details of situation with WW & I, and cares deeply about both of us. He has tried to persuade WW into working on our M through biblical references, MB and personally, but WW continues refusing to consider any marital advice except from OM and is steadfast in going through with D.

Today; I brought this subject up with him and discussed the issue of "dating". His personal and Biblical opinion (at least in my case) is that he feels I have done "everything humanly possible" to save my M. With this in mind; he further concludes that if I choose to; I would not be sinning if I choose to "date". Again "date" being the key word. I realize that he knows me better than anyone on this DB possibly could and I consider that when he's talking with me. He's coming from a position of potential damage to me if I do not begin to socialize; which we also discussed.

So if I "muddied this water" even more; it is not my intent. Only wanted to share a good preachers opinion. I also told him that I will choose not to "date" in the traditional sense until D is final. He said that is purely my choice, but in our case feels it is a non-issue!

FR

Oh dear!

I have used the term "hooking up" very indiscriminatorily!!

I thought it meant like connecting at a level of attraction... like one starts going out with someone of the opposite sex!

Now, I am concerned that if "hooking up" were taken LITERALLY... I'd need to slap someone!... for seeking to take from me my

RE-VIRGINIZED LAURA LEE... title. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

NO "hooking up"... in the literal sense.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

(Like, you all "get" that I'm just kidding around here, right?)

LIKE! Let's not throw rotten fruit at my friend, deafjeff, cause he broke "the rules", right?

I'll just lecture him in a really knowing manner... faking, of course, that i know. lol

L

[ August 30, 2004, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: laura_lee ]

"You are still married so until the divorce is final don't date."

I don't agree with the following comments and caveats....

If you feel committed to the divorce, with no reservations, then no reason not to date, if you are separated and committed to filing the papers. If not hold off. So I don't agree. Yet date but don't have sex. Go for coffee or a dinner, maybe a walk in the park. While the process is underway, why not get out there, and find common interests with others. Be honest about your situation with a potential new friend. Be positive and tell them what you are looking for in a new mate. Listen to the response. Share and be positive. It will give you confidence to proceed. Everyone going through a divorce is hurting, particularly if you are a victim of infedility and lost trust, we share a common bond. But don't have sex until you are divorced, and feel certain about your new partner. You will know when. I don't see a simple kiss as a problem at the door or after a dinner date.

I'm talking a good song, but this is my plan. I do plan to tell you how its going. So far, not so good.

This board has given me a lot of good advice. My marriage crashed, but I post here on the divorce line now, rather than Plan A/B which are good things but I failed at that. I hope to give a positive response to our troubles for those who have failed those plans. I also appreciate responses to my posts.

Best to all! I love you all!

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:
 The bottom line is that when it comes to building a new relationship, it shouldn't be about your loneliness or even your happiness. It's about finding the road you are supposed to be on, and then in God's time encountering someone who is compatible and complementary and who is walking the same road. <hr /></blockquote>WOW!! Awesome post, GDP! As someone who's been around here as long as you (actually little longer), it is awesome to see how you've grown.

Just had to tell you that! And that I can't agree with the above statement (and your whole post) more!!

You are so wise!

I just want to say thanks for the encouragement, Ms.O. Sometimes - and especially lately - I feel like a fool, but...I still believe I'm where God wants me, as peculiar as it sometimes seems.

Your question is...How long to wait before you date?

Well, I would say...at least till you're divorced.

I'm sorry, I know you're lonely right now but, dating is not the solution to your problem.

IMHO, you should surround yourself with friends and family who will be supportive of you and your situation.

Do something special for yourself...like a day at the spa or a new haircut. Maybe, invite a good friend out to dinner and a movie.

Just don't jump into something that will make things worse for you in the long run.

Again, JMHO.

Good luck to you. TG