OK - I am posting here because I feel that H is too far gone with OW to prevent his moving out. He is talking about moving in with her (his new place, or hers, once her H leaves). He doesn't understand why I have objections to her being introduced to my kids prematurely.
Yes, people leave their spouses and kids to be with someone they want more. In this case, OW was in the picture 5 years ago when they had the first A. Kids remember this, remember her. Have asked me lately, indirect questions about her and whether or not she was still in the picture. (for the last 2 months, she is, and their relationship is escalating)
I am facing reality and talking to attorney and counselor. Also spent the afternoon at Barnes and Noble, going through all the books on divorce and kids. Never once did I see anything that addressed this topic of spouse leaving spouse for OP, and how this was handled in terms of their exposure to OP, especially when the co=habitation may occur within the first 3 months.
My position is that I want to see that H has a stable relationship with OW for at least 6 months before he starts moving OW into their lives. This means either a) they live apart for the first 6 months, once they both leave their respective spouses, or b) the kids live with me the first 6 months, and H only sees the kids on neutral ground, and not with OW.
My attorney agreed that introducing her into the picture under these circumstances could traumatize further, beyond the initial shock of the break up of the family. But nothing legal to back this up, only the general opinion of the court, that the important thing is what is in the kids best interest, and hearing the whole tale, first time around awareness of OW, and now, 4 years later, awareness that their is an OP and questions about OW based on their first exposure, the attorney thinks the court would rule in my favor if I asked for this 6 month stipulation.
Anyone else have this experience? I can't believe it is not a common scenario, when a H with kids leaves his family for OW, which unfortunately, does happen.
Well OW is still "talking" about leaving her H, and maybe I am premature with all this, but I need to figure this out as we are planning on mediation for the separation/divorce soon.
We didn't have a stipulation about the OM being introduced but there is one about no overnight guests of a romantic nature when the children are present. To get one baring introduction both parties would have to agree on it and WxW wouldn't have done that. If for no other reason, she wouldn't have agreed because I would want it.
Just checking in to see how you are doing.
Your H has left on his business trip, correct? How are you doing now that he is gone?
Has he been calling in to at least talk to the kids?
You never know what will happen with the OW and whether or not she will leave her H. Did you expose the A to OW's H yet?
My thoughts are with you.
I'm curious, does HER husband know she's talking about leaving him??
Does HER husband know about their ongoing affair?
Maybe you should inform him--in case he isn't even aware of the situation--
Has the affair made the light of day to family and friends--apparently your kids know SOMETHING is up--
I'd suggest you make your husband be the one to tell them what his plans are--afar as leaving them, why he's leaving their family--all of it--
If he wants to leave that badly--allow HIM to be the one to tell them--
But if you are carrying this burden alone--I'd suggest you start bringing it to the light of day--and allow him to begin to suffer the consequences of HIS CHOICES NOW!!
It just seems so strange that their is no reference in the jillions of books on divorce addressing this problem. Anyone else out there dealing with this situation?
I actually told my H that if he is serious about settling down with OW, that she will have a better chance of my kids accepting her if she is eased into the picture after a respectable amount of time. Talk about throwing in the towel!
H left today for his 3 week business trip. OW apparently is on the verge of telling her H, so why should I tell him...he will find out the truth pretty quickly if their plans go as they hope. H and I had a disturbing conversation about this topic last night. I reitterated that if they are discussing living arrangements that I would request the above (first post in this thread) situation. H said that our C said it wasn't neccessarily a 6 month rule, we could decide something ourselves that seems reasonable. So I told him that the attorney I talked said she thought it was reasonable under the circumstances and that the court would agree.
H heard the words "attorney" and "court" and went off! "So this is how its going to be!"
I reminded him that I have not retained an attorney, just got a consultation on this subject, but now he is acting like I breached some kind of agreement by getting legal advice.
(we have agreed to mediation to start with).
And then we touched on child support, division of property and maintenence - only that we need to deal with these issues. H bristled at the maintenence, saying he wasn't sure if that was necessary. Please! He makes 3 times my salary
and I think this is mandatory in our state.
Anyway, still trying to keep this on an even keel so the kids won't sense or feel any ugliness, but I think we are in for a rough ride.
So any more thoughts, experiences on this issue of exposing OW to my kids after H moves out?
Thanks - EH
You made a smart move setting up a consultation with an attorney. Please remember that your H is operating in a fog. You might also want to consider that not much of anything either of you agree to will be binding in court until a formal separation agreement is drawn up and signed.
Given that OW hasn't told her husband of her plans and hasn't left him yet, your situation could change at any time. I just don't think her husband is going to stand up and cheer when he gets the news, or if he gets the news.
I wonder how that discussion goes. Exactly what do they say? Is it something like: "When are we going to tell your husband about us?" Whatever follows will at least turn out to be a "meaningful converstion."
Sooo, you are well within your rights to get the advice of a lawyer. You still have to protect both yourself and your children.
Thanks for this thoughtful reply.
Yes - H does seem to be in a fog, although the way its playing out, he is on a one way out of control train, and I am along for the ride, like it or not. I am preparing for the worst at least!
I agree totally - his behavior is an exact discription of blinded, fog, lovesick unreality.
But it is , in fact our reality! He has only told a few people - and has made it a "don't want to be married situation" - any mention of true love with OW, not in the picture. Wonder why? Could it be that he is embarrassed, or that he knows all of his friends, relatives are going to think he is off the deep end by leaving me and the kids for married OW?
Anyway, more venting tonite. The sorry thing is,
as I back away emotionally for my own protection, as well as the best interests of me and the kids, I still find myself hoping that maybe, he wil come to his senses, and change his mind. Doubt that though, he has gone too far with this resolve to leave, whether or not things work out with OW or not. And realistically, can we go back to being what we were, unless he is willing to REALLY figure out why he is so unhappy with his life?
Funny tho - tonite he called me from the first night of his trip. Just like normal, sharing his impressions of the new city, talking to the kids, glad your flight went well, wish I was there, love you, take care, night,night...blah blah blah. Like he can just turn it on and off.
What is real to this man - leaving his wife and kids at home every other night, while we are wondering what the heck is going on when he runs off to meet OW, or slipping back into his familiar (and I truly believe) comfortable, sincere caring for his family and real affection for me and the kids. I guess you can say confused.
Anyway, sometimes easier for us to maintain "business as usual", which includes affectionate exchanges, than always acknowledging the crisis at hand, - that he is planning on leaving us in hopes that OW will join him.
I started out with the practical request for feed back on the OW exposure to the kids, but so far, not really any first hand experiences. There has to be someone out there who has gone through this - but maybe those that have are no longer on the board - moved on with their lives.
Anyway - I must admit, I am already enjoying H being gone in the respect that at least I am not in total anxiety every night wondering if and when he has escaped to be with OW.
I weighed myself on Friday - 98 lbs....what the heck? I am small but not weighed that since 12 years old. Obviuously not a healthy thing. Hopefully this 3 week respite from anxiety will help me relax and take care of myself mentally and physically.
Thanks for helping me hang in there. Such a crazy time.
<small>[ September 19, 2004, 10:26 PM: Message edited by: Everhopeful ]</small>
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Everhopeful:
<strong> I weighed myself on Friday - 98 lbs....what the heck? I am small but not weighed that since 12 years old. Obviuously not a healthy thing. Hopefully this 3 week respite from anxiety will help me relax and take care of myself mentally and physically. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everhopeful, I'm sorry you're going through all this garbage but, please take better care of yourself. Remember, you have your children to think about and if you get sick who will take care of them?
I know it's hard but, try to make time for yourself and your needs.
IMHO, the first rule in any crisis situation is to take care of you so you can take care of the children.
Good luck, TG
Severe weight loss is a key sign of depression. It's likely that you have situational depression and may need meds.
(I wish I could have kept off that weight loss <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
While he's away, if you haven't done so already, make photocopies of all important papers, taxes, bank accounts, retirement accounts. etc. and store them at a friends house. You may need them later. Also store any valuable jewelry elsewhere.
Then, if you truly think this will proceed, my lawyer suggested typing up a narrative of the marriage, with important dates, children's birthdates etc. which can be used to draw up the divorce document. Your head may be clearer while he's away.
I'm curious, do you even WANT your marriage?? from your posts--it sure doesn't sound like it--
it just sounds as if your accepting whatever happens--happens
Have you been in Plan A--showing your husband the good in your marriage???
Do you even want his affair to end?? If not, then I agree, don't say anything--as why should other woman say anything to her husband?? She has the best of both worlds--her husband providing for some of her needs---and YOUR husband providing the rest--
do not bring the affair to the light of day and do not allow either of them to face the consquences of their actions--continue to live as if your marriage is over--and that no matter what you do--he's leaving--anyway--
Her husband has a right to know--and if YOUR telling HIM knocks him in to the realm of reality that his own marriage just might be ending--it could benefit you--he may decide to FIGHT for his marriage--and she could end the affair w/ your husband--in order to save her own marriage--
But you are still married to this man--and you have the right to make some choices as to bring this to the light of day--or not--if you read through this website--that is something Dr. Harley suggests---bringing the affair out in the open--and once it's out in the open--they have to deal with reality--
--He has only told a few people - and has made it a "don't want to be married situation" - any mention of true love with OW, not in the picture. Wonder why? Could it be that he is embarrassed, or that he knows all of his friends, relatives are going to think he is off the deep end by leaving me and the kids for married OW?
TR--Just what has he told other people?? that you are getting divorced??
Why isn't he telling them the truth?? because he's living in a dream world that he will be happier if he leaves his family for her--
And yes, he's afraid of HOW THEY WILL REACT!!
He's afraid of looking like a jerk in their eye's
he's afraid they will tell him just how WRONG HE IS!! He is afraid they will SUPPORT YOU and YOUR marriage--and not him--He has to look like the good guy here--when in reality he's NOT!!
So again--be HONEST with others about what is going on--you need that support group right now--
and so do your kids--
Everhopeful -- If you want to try to save the marriage, I would suggest that you absolutely inform OW's H, as soon as possible. This is exposure and it's all part of the MB way of breaking off an affair.
Why not post over on the infidelity board, or the just found out--or even over on Emotional needs Board--where others may be able to offer valuable advice on how to SAVE your marriage--
And you know--your right--you don't want to go back to the same marriage you had before--but working through the issues--will not make it the same marriage--it will actually change the dynamics of the marriage--and make it better--so it wouldn't be the "same" marriage--
Ok - I am going to share my experience with you. EH - YOU are doing everything right, but your WH is going to do whatever he wants, regardless of what you read in a book, or hear from a C.
My D day was on a Wednesday. WH told me over the phone that he "had been seeing someone for 3 months, and she made him feel like the most important thing in the world, and he was leaving."
Before I could even get home to talk to the kids (it was summer - they were not at school) he had all ready been there and told them alone. He told them that he just couldn't love their Mom anymore - and was going to be with OW.
Two days later he showed up to take them out to dinner. When they got to the restaurant, there she was. Boom. They were trying to throw my kids in front of their speeding train.
He did everything wrong. Truly a book could be written about what NOT to do - and his name would be on the cover.
For the next couple of months he would show up to take them some place - and there she was. Eventually the older boy said "no more" told his dad that he wanted to see dad alone - not with OW. My WH could not possilby leave the OW at home, so older son quit going with him. Younger son hung in there for awhile - after all, OW was buying him candy and pop, he was going to the movies with dad and OW a couple of times a week - it was the Disney Dad scenario. I suggested several times to WH that he needed to spend alone time with the kids - without OW. Each time he would explode "she is going to be a part of their lives now - because she is part of my life, they just need to get over it." and the now infamous line "if older son does not choose to be around her - that is his own problem, not mine"
As part of the divorce procedure here in Oregon you have to take a parenting class. Ours was a 4 week class. One of the things they taught in the class was the "6 month rule". The reason the 6 month rule is good (if you are going to date - do not bring the OP into the kids lives for at least 6 months) is simply becuase the kids may become attached to that person, and then things may not work out, and the kids are upset. Also, in a case like this, the kids need time to accept that mom and dad are seperate. Seeing dad with his arm around OW is going to hurt the kids.
But I do not think your WH cares about any of this right now. I applaud your efforts to do everything right. But he does not sound open to logical thinking. no matter what book you read - or who you talk to - he is going to say "each situation is different, and this situation is different." followed by "those people do not know me, or OW, we are different." I could also see him saying something stupid like "well, they have all ready known her for 5 years, so the 6 month wait is all ready over."
If I were going to write a book - I would say this: Do NOT bring kids around the OP for at least 6 months! But, I know that every BS who reads it would say "yes, true" and every WS would say "doesn't apply to me"
You are right on when you say that the only way your kids will ever have a decent relationship with OW is if she waits at least 6 months before trying to become part of their lives. But your WH is not going to agree to it. It is not your job to make sure your kids accept her. I am not saying that you should sabotage their relationship - you just don't need to help them out.
I would suggest that perhaps you could at least enforce the "no overnight guests of a romantic nature" rule with him. After all, the courts would certainly back you up there.
I think the WS and the OP are always anxious to bring the kids into their relationship becuase it will ad some type of "normalcy" tot he whole situation. After all - no one else will accept it.
In my case - my D was final in December. About 3 months later my WxH and his OW were no longer together. At this point he lives alone. His relationship with his kids is just now starting to improve. He is trying to get into another relationship with anyone who will have him. I have told him that THIS time he needs to give the kids a break, and do not bring another person around them for at least 6 months. At first he agreed to this. I even told him "remeber what you learned in the parenting class - they know what they are talking about" he greed. But about a month ago he met someone on Match.com, and she lives about 2 hours away. The other day he was at my house, and she called. Turns out her son was at the same wrestling camp in Reno that my son went to this summer. So WxH makes ourolder son talk to her on the phone about the camp, and she is asking him if he remebers her son......Does not sound like WxH is planning to wait 6 months this time either. I am sure he would say this is differnt. I am sure he would say that it is ok this time because he is actuslly divorced this time. And she lives 2 hours away.
So, what advice do I have for you? You can still do everything right by your kids. You can show them by your own example. Don't date while you are still married. If you do D, and then date, wait 6 months before involving the kids. Show them what is right.
Frankly, I would be willing to sell eveerything I have to bet that your H and OW will not be together a year from now.
Thanks so much for these replies. The 6 month rule is what all the books, my child psycologist etc said. Only my personal counselor (in H's presence) said - "there is no hard rule, it is pretty much up to the 2 of you to decide what is best" So H has glomed on to the only vaguely liberal interpretation he has heard.
Based on some of the stuff I have read here, I am having a change of heart regarding giving up on him. But still, I am preparing for the worst, making copies, making lists of financial records. So I am acting practical but at the same time still hoping things will change. Its scary to pick a mediator who will have so much influence on the way we do this, but we are determined not to let lawyers battle it out instead. I am pushing for a mediator with a psychology background for the parenting portion, and a mediator with a legal background for the financial portion, but maybe one for both is more practical. Anyone with mediation experience?
Again, I have to plan for the worst, but still hoping for the best. See my other post in General Questions regarding my new resolve.
When are you going to notify his other woman's husband about the affair and thier plans?