I have known this board was here for a long time but was not ready to investigate it because I was dealing with my wXw's activities, trying to save my marriage on the SAA board, then dealing with the Divorce, and then for the past several months dating. I knew I would get here eventually because my wXw's first affair yielded a beautiful OC, my D9, who is and was the light of my life the minute she was born. I have had some questions and knew I could get answers here, when I was ready to post. However, I had many questions answered from just reading a few threads. The camaraderie on this board is something I've never knew was possible and it has been difficult at times carrying a little "secret" around in the community ("does she look like me enough?" "do people wonder?"). Only close family were made aware of the situation at first and since then it's been assumed that all is kosher. [My son was only 5 when she was born and he has made comments in the past as he's extremely observant and intelligent, but I was always able to blow it off].

At this stage I'm really not looking for advice. D9 is beautiful, smart, happy, and very much MY daughter. She has been subject to a sad divorce with her Mother having an emotional affair (at least) and then the separation (one year today), and now learning how to manage with divorced parents. Both kids have now been seeing an entirely new me as MB has taught me so much and I've eliminated many LB-type behaviors and learned to love in a much more effective, patient way. Things are going fine and I'm not ready to change anything.

However, as I was reading threads I noted that there are folks here new to the OC situation. It breaks my heart to think of it and what I went through those first few months after d-day: "I had sex with OM and I'm pregnant." 10 years later I have a life most wouldn't sign up for but I feel I've made the most of it, even before discovering MB a couple years ago. If I had stumbled on this site then, who knows, I may still be raising my kids in a 2 parent household...

I don't believe the details of my situation are that important. I have always thought the story would make a good Lifetime Movie. Even though we're D'd it might still. Mostly owing to the exceptional character of both my kids; how they've thrived even in the environment of two parents making really bad choices.

Synopsis: 5 years after we married, SF was a huge problem. wXw had been raped as a teenager and this compounded other issues (this is her assessment) to the point that she has serious sexual dysfunction. We tried to work on it with counsellors and other things. Ultimately it kept coming back to me "you're the sick one, nobody really has sex that much after they're married"....). Finally I talked this over with a priest and I remember walking out of there thinking "I'm going to have to get a divorce or get what I need on the side." Adultery seemed like the lesser of two evils.

So I opened myself up to the devil and he paid me in full. A year later I was involved with an EA with a co-worker. Problem was that WW was seeking her needs outside the marriage as well - she probably sensed my emotional detachment. Well she beat me to the punch and started having sex with the guy (she to this day insists it was only 1 time but I never believe a wayward). She got pregnant literally on her birthday, Oct 27 ~ try that for an anniversary. Around Thanksgiving was D-day. I did what most guys do and flew the coop. But my dad encouraged me to go back and try to work it out. I decided to make the best of it and keep my family intact, as much for the sake of DS5 as anything. And WW was extremely remorseful, to her credit. We actually managed to establish no contact on our own, not knowing anything of MB. I had OM fired from his job (his boss was my Father in Law).

Unfortunately, in the process of me confronting him with my fists, I let it slip that he had got ww pregnant. I also busted my hand. The only physical confrontation I've ever had as an adult. I proceeded to have a lawyer write up a No Contact agreement which is air-tight. OM signed it, miraculously. He isn't allowed any where near my DD until she's 18. I essentially "adopted" her although it is already assumed she's mine on the birth certificate.

I do give wXw credit for her behavior after D-day. She actually employed some Harley strategies and tried to make up for the wrongs - she let me say whatever was on my mind, and she did whatever she could to make me feel better. It seemed like we were going to get over this thing.

My EA ended with all this and by some miracle, OW quit working there. I had embraced the conviction to stay married, for the kids and hopefully things would also get better for me/us. I also felt strongly that if I D'd her she would abort the baby. I don't believe in abortion. I feel strongly that I saved DD's life with the decision to stay married.

The pregnancy had the added feature of genetic tests revealing an extra 14th chromosome - rendering a possibility of anything from complete vegetable-like state, to absolutely no defects what-so-ever. We stuck with the plan and prayed. A lot.

After the birth of this perfect child, [I'll never forget how alert and beautiful she was], I was still hurting inside. My physical needs were still not being met. There were only more excuses ("I'm pregnant, I'm tired, stressed, fatigued," "new baby"....) Many months passed and it looked like I was simply out of luck when it came to SF. But she had no problem having sex with OM, so my waywardness took on a new element: Revenge. I had multiple EA's (meeting women at various single environments, parties) and PA's (making out), until finally I started a sexual relationship with a co-worker about 10 years ago (DD was <1). It lasted 2-3 weeks at which point, miraculously several things happened. 9/11 changed our priorities and she also quit and moved away. Natural No Contact. She later quit drinking and called to say I was a big mistake in her life (duh) and haven't heard from her since. WxW never knew of any of this until, during her exposure of most recent affair - I couldn't expose in good conscience without coming clean (a sentiment severely beat into me by some good folks on the SAA board). I never had another full blown affair after that. It was too much trouble, too much sneaking around for my tastes. I flirted here and there and my boundaries were bad, but never pursued anything. I lived in a primarily sexless marriage for another 7 years until wXw began an affair with the neighbor. 7/4/09 Me: "are you in love with him?" ww: "I don't know." That ended (mostly) and then she started a similar relationship with the across the street neighbor - long time friend, but I didn't like it, she refused to back off on the relationship. She refused to acknowledge a problem. She refused to put any effort into making a marriage we both wanted. She had a conversation with Steve to no avail, refused further. Finally I could see that she would never be committed to this marriage. It wasn't a situation I wanted my kids to be exposed to any more. Jan 22, 2010 we went to mediation.

D9 is the light of my life. She is an absolute delight. She is smart, funny, vivacious, creative and bright. She has lots of friends and the teachers love her. We've bonded a lot and she has no doubt who her true Dad is. Sometimes I wonder if I could love another daughter this much, even with shared genetic information.

So I have this to say to anyone new to the OC world. Be glad you have discovered MB. Whether you save your marriage or not, the principles here apply to creating and/or maintaining an environment very conducive to raising kids. I had a lot of IB, DJ's, and AO's before MB. That was my contribution to the sexless marriage. It was also my contribution to not being the best Father I could be. Just eliminating those behaviors in the last 2 years has affected my relationship with my kids 100%. They trust me more and there's so much less drama around here.

Also, Melody Lane said to someone that if you don't apply these principles to your life and try to recover from infidelity on your own (like we did), you will only be "limping along" in a state resembling that pre-affair marraige. She described 7 years of my life in one sentence.

~optimism

Wow!
Thank you for being so open and honest.

Great story, my friend. Thanks for posting it.

Optimism,

That is quite a good story you've seemed to touch every topic without being tedious.

At some time in the future do you intend to tell DD about her OC status?

Being an OC myself, I get what you are saying about you don't know if you could love a biological daughter as much as you love OC.

My adoptive parents were quite loving with me, and my adoptive extended family were as well. I sometimes wonder if it is because I am not related to them that they accepted me more. Perhaps they felt no anixiety about the performance of their DNA, had no skin in the game.

God Bless
Gamma

Thanks Gamma.
Your post to me illustrates exactly why folks who have not lived the OC experience have little to offer as far as advice or direction or counsel, or opinions when it comes to these situations. There's no possible way to wrap your head around that statement in blue without some first hand knowledge. I'm not sure if it describes my sentiment for D9 or not, I never really thought of it that way. I always just felt like for some reason she deserved as much love as I could possibly muster. Shortly after she was born I read of an ancient Chinese belief that goes like this "If you save someone's life, you are responsible for them." That hit me at a timely moment and I've adopted it as truth. She is why I stayed in a primarily unsatisfying marriage for so long after she was born (I figured the least I could do was to let her grow up in a two parent household). She is also why I threw in the towel - it would have been cruel to let her continue to see a relationship where one marriage partner was abusing the other at will.

I finally came to this board with trepidation to get some answers about revealing the source of D9's genetic information to her. When, how, why...? I wondered if Dr. Harley had a specific principle to apply. After reading several threads I realize there is not necessarily perfect answers and every situation is certainly different.

opt

Forget about DNA.
As an adoptive mother of 2 children, I will tell you that you are loved for being who you are.

You are just wrong/incorrect and making an issue where none exists.

I am sure you are/were deeply loved because you are their child.

I know this is true of a niece of mine who was adopted by my brother when she was 2. I literally FORGET that she doesn't share our DNA. My Mom does too...I remember when my mom was discussing her breast cancer with her doctor...she asked her if her granddaughter would be at increased risk. LOL. Then she glanced at me and shook her head as if to clear the cobwebs....um, yeah mom...I forget sometimes too.

In my case my BH does not see our OC as anything but his flesh and blood. After all, she IS a lot like him! Optimism, you are right that it is an individual decision on how and when to tell. Back before DNA could be determined no one asked, no one told. Now we feel like because we can figure it out it's suddenly important? No, what's important is relationships, not genetic makeup. And keep it simple if/when you do share, because the information doesn't change anything. You're the dad, and you always will be.

Does your ExW plan to ever introduce OC to bio-D? Is he out of the picture for good?

Thanks WH,
Between her and me there is nothing that could change our bond. I know that. Sometimes I wonder about how her brother will take the news. And then what if folks in this small community knew - would that change my daughter's perception of herself in with her peers, etc.
These are questions wrapped up in the question of when/how/if to give D9 the story. It won't be any time real soon if at al because I want to be sure and I just haven't had time to devote to figuring out what to do. I'll read more/post more/read more before I do anything.

As for Bio-D, he signed a legal document agreeing not to go anywhere near her until she's at least 18. I did bring up the subject with wXw during the custody discussions in mediation and she claims she has no interest in reconnecting with him. Things would get real ugly real quick if she did; she knows that~ for someone with the loose behavior she has had in the past, she's extremely conscientious about her image...

opt

I don't know why bio-D would ever want to drop into the picture after 18 years of not knowing DD. There seems no point in it. Especially since you could potentially sue for criminal conversation and emotional damages regarding his role in breaking up your M and possibly even get back child support. If he's never in the picture, is there any reason to say anything? I just don't know if there's really a right or wrong answer to that.

I believe everyone has the right to know their biological roots. Not sure of when the best time to tell is though. In this situation where Opt is now divorced, I would worry constantly that WxW would tell the dd. Or some other member of the family. Someone always knows. Someone's kid always overhears and adult conversation. I would avoid at all costs the child finding out from anyone else except me.

That's right WH, and we're still 9 more years away from that. It's a little crazy the things that go through your head when you're in this position. Once your wife gets pregnant on her birthday with some POS, you start feeling like absolutely anything is possible. Once she went wayward with one neightbor and then the other, Bio-D didn't seem like that much of a stretch.
But more to your question: I think the answer is ultimately individual and must take into acocunt a multitude of factors related specifically to the people involved.
For now, she's a remarkably happy little girl who excels in school and has a great sense of humor. I don't see any reason to mess with that.

opt

Optimism,

These choices are not easy really,it is also a matter of who you lie to, and who is forced to keep a secret/lie.

If your parents know but OC does not what a burden on your parents, if OC knows but not your parents what a burden on OC,
and etc for all cases.

If you don't tell OC then someday she may resent you when it comes out in some way. I was not too happy to find out
that my biological mother was dying and nothing was said to me. This is one difficult thing to contemplate, but OM might
call out to OC as my bio-Mother did. I also was not too happy that I did not get to meet my Grandmother who died about a
year before I put it all together.

There was also a sense I had of being in a real life "Truman Show" where everyone knew my situation but me. Scandal
spreads quietly, as many people from my early life knew the story and kept mum about it as has come out.

I suspect you may fear being found out, my adoptive Mother and Father both had it and when I eventually tracked down
much of my biological family they were visibly relieved. They no longer had to hold back the secrets they held for so
long, my adoptive Mother was in her 80s and looked as if a thorn had been removed when I told her all I had found out.

There is another Chinese saying...roughly "a lie is like a piece of paper covering a flame".

God Bless
Gamma

Optimism - I'm on the other side of Gamma. I found out when I was 26-27. I witnessed the affair, but didn't know that my mother believed I was OM's bio daughter. I'm absolutely certain it would have devastated me far worse to find out when I was an insecure child or teenager.

Stay close to your daughter. Be a good father, the very best you can be. I didn't have a good relationship with my father and wished for a different dad frequently so my mother's revelation during those times would have absolutely wiped me out, made me more angry, rebellious and self-destructive. I absolutely know from the bottom of my heart how this news would have destroyed me had it come into my life any earlier. It hurt badly as it was; I hardly spoke to my mother for 3 years after that.

As long as you provide her a confident secure father-daughter relationship, you will know when the right time to tell her will be. You will be able to protect her more than if you just blurt it out because someone on the internet said you should.

Thanks folks, I really appreciate that people care enough to take their time and give me their feelings on this matter. There really is so little support or reasonable source that I'm aware of for this specific situation. And as Gamma says there certainly are no easy answers. I was hoping for more of a formula or instruction manual~ one of the reasons I think MB has been a blessing for me is that the concepts generally are universal but specific to a successful marriage. Meet your spouses' needs and don't lovebust... that type of thing. There is apparently no formula for the insanity of having your wife get pregnant with another man's baby. We're all just trying to help each other cope.

I don't intent to blurt anything out and I most certainly will keep my daughter close to me. I don't believe I've ever lied to her- she IS my daughter. The subject of her chromosomes has not come up.

As for the burdens being carried. I appreciate what you're saying Gamma. I never thought of it that way. What it comes down to for me is that my family are all I'm concerned about. My folks made her possible with their support - they love her dearly and I don't know that they feel any burden, she is their grandchild, end of story. However, I will ask my mother about this at some point. I believe my wexw bears a burden in that a somewhat nebulous affair (PA never confirmed) broke our marriage. Now, if and when D finds out there is a PA in her past, that changes the nature of the divorce -- she has a burden and frankly I don't care, it is the consequences of her actions. Her family didn't support me during Plan A and trying to save my marriage; I haven't spoken with any of them since at least 6 months prior to the D being final. I couldn't care less what kind of burden they bear.

I also think her sense of self-worth is very strong. She is well-nurtured. Even though I couldn't keep my marriage together, she has an abundance of love from me and her mother. And her brother adores her too, even if there is sibling rivalry at times.

Sorry if I ramble, but I do appreciate people's points of view. I will read more, perhaps be of some assistance to folks here if I can. In the meantime I will continue to be the best Father I can be. I'll also pray on it.

opt

Optimism,

I don't believe I've ever lied to her- she IS my daughter. The subject of her chromosomes has not come up.

Good policy, try not to think that she is too young for the truth, I still recall with great vividness the lie I was told about my parents being killed in a car crash, many years before they actually did.

I do agree with you that the one person who may spill the beans is your WWex who may underestimate DDs intelligence and give some facile story about the circumstances of the divorce, something silly to make herself sound heroic or virtuous.

God Bless
Gamma

1. Being adopted, is not the same as being the product of your mothers affair. I can only hope that OM and his family have expired before OC finds out who her genetic donor was.

2. Opt, I cant tell you when or if to tell, but I can tell you that WXW is likely to take that decision from you. But I would not worry to much about it in the long run.

Let me tell you a little story about my 15yr old niece.

She is an OC, and everyone knows it. Her mother (Idiot) was already pregnant (Uknowingly) when she got "together" with my nieces dad.

She has two sisters, both of which are obviously genetically her dads. You can line all three of them up and play a real easy game of "One of these things is not like the others"

Her Mother (Idiot) and Dad (Deadbeat) got a divorce when she was about 8. After another failed marriage her mother (Idiot) reconnected with my nieces "genetic donor" and made the intelligent discussion to start dating him again. My Niece was about 12 at this time.

Well there Mother (idiot) and the genetic donor (looser) decide to "Ease" my niece into understanding that this guy is her "Real Dad"

Understand, everyone except the three nieces know this guy is her genetic donor, it's obvious.

My Nieces response

Uhhh.... yea,... how about No!!

Of course her Mothers (Idiot) relationship with Genetic Donor (Looser) did not last, but they keep in touch (Random SF encounters when he breezes through town)

She is now 15 and refuses to accept (Notice I did not say believe) that this guy is her father. She has no interest in ever seeing him again, or his kids, or any of his family. To her he is just a guy her mom dated before and after her Dad (Deadbeat)

Her and her dad have a horrible relationship, but she still feels this way. I could not imagine how much more strongly she would feel if her and her dad did have a good relationship.


Just something to think about.

This is key. Being the product of your mother's affair is VERY different from being adopted. Sooooo many more varibles! However, I still believe in Truth! And I think Opt does too....I certainly don't believe he has yet (or ever will!!) lie to his dd. If WXW ever tells her before Opt can then Opt will just have to deal with that. She just needs to know that she is loved and that Opt would have told her when she was of age.

I sure feel for you all. But she is one lucky girl. Her mother is an idiot.

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate all of you offering your time and sentiments to help me relate to all this. Even if nothing changes in the near future, the support has helped me grasp that we are simply talking about real life and I'm not the only one in this situation (or something similar). I feel somehow closer to my daughter knowing that we share something rare but not freakishly rare~ I'm thankful that I've been able to be a good Father to this wonderful little soul.

I have to clarify the thread. I must have said something misleading above, but I strongly believe that my wxw will be the last one to inform D9 of any of this. She has a tendency (and always did) of manipulating the truth. Lots of half-truths, disguised truths, white lies, glossed-over feelings, cleverly avoided subjects, and mental gymnastics during our marriage and divorce has apparently taught her nothing because I still see signs of it in the very limited interactions I have with her. We had a discussion just prior to the D being final and she indicated she felt it best NEVER to tell her. Doing so also would also shed a new light on the divorce, which I think wxw would rather avoid.

Gack, thanks for the story. It helps a lot. SW is right - I certainly do value truth, now more than ever. I'm still very conflicted about this particular truth however. There are so many concerns, not the least of which is that I don't want anything to change at this stage; we have a great bond and I wonder if this would have an affect on that. Or would waiting be worse? What about her brother? Does he have a right to know? What do I say if she asks - I think they study genetics in 5th or 6th grade. She has hazel eyes - mine and wxw's are brown. Maybe something in my heart is telling me that her mother should be the one to tell her...

I need to pray more on it.

opt

Opt,

I always had an awareness that I was adopted, my adoptive parents made that point clear, the circumstances they lied about.

This made it easier to transition to finding out I was an OC and handle the ugly details of the circumstances of my birth and the subsequent devastation of the family I was adopted out of.

You may have to deal with a school assignment to trace out OCs family tree, I felt some twinge of guilt when I did that with my kids. My kids also look nothing like the ethnicity of their last name.

Heck I'm not sure what last name to use my latest thought is just to hyphenate all my 4 last names together, similar to the practice in some Spanish countries.

God Bless
Gamma

Thanks Gamma.
I have no intention of ever having guilt feelings over any of this. I guess at this point I feel like an opportunity will present itself. Perhaps it will be in conjunction with a school assignment, maybe something else. But it will come. And then the whole story will probably be revealed. I will give wxw the opportunity to answer the question that her daugther raises (after all, I wasn't there during conception). I will also inform wxw that I refuse to lie to my daugter or cover up for any of her poor choices, past or present.

opt

Opt, I was born out of wedlock in 1965. My mom then married a 'boy' from back home and had my brother. I grew up thinking of this man as my dad. I still do actually even though he SUCKS as a father. From the time I was very very young I was aware that I had a different biological father. My brother knew it too eventually. (he was 4 1/2 years younger).

My difficulties with the father image wasn't that I was being raised by a man with different genes. It was that he wasn't a good father. So I can see clearly that YOUR situation is different in that regard. However, the one thing I believe my mom did RIGHT was to be truthful with me. It was matter of fact. And by the time I was aware that she had me out of wedlock she had become religious and so it must not have been easy to out her imperfections in that way to me. But Truth. She has since told me that even before she 'found God' she vowed that she would never lie to her kids. I am 45 and I have NEVER found my mom to have lied to me.

So yes I believe your dd has the right to know these things. I get really really conflicted when we start discussing time frames. I can't think of a single 'good time' to tell her! That leads me to think that sooner is better But now that you have recently divorced her mother, THIS might not be the best time.....so keep doing what you are doing and loving her like you do....and eventually you will know. Don't actively lie to her though.

(((Opt)))

Optimism,

Perhaps what SW said suggests a good approach for telling, if OC needs two years to recover from the divorce, then the divorce date + 2 years might work.

God Bless
Gamma

Unfortunately, I have an update.

Last Saturday I signed for and picked up a registered letter from the post office. If I had recognized the name, I may have not done so. It was from original OM - biological father of OC10.

I have not opened it. I wanted to check the legal documents that were drafted and signed by OM 10 years ago to see what the provisions were. I checked today -- they basically relinquish all parental rights and responsibilities to me and the mother (my now-ex). The agreement can not be revoked. The first statement acknowledges that OM "alleges" he is the biological father -- there were never DNA or blood tests done.

There was a note in the document sent back to me stating "I know Olivia is happy and seeing her right now might be confusing, but I would greatly appreciate periodic updates and/or pictures."

I have never contacted OM with anything in 10 years.

I have not opened the letter.

I am considering:
1. sending it back, registered. with or without a note to the effect of "you've done enough damage to this family, please leave us alone"
2. opening it and seeing what he wants.
3. keeping it and not responding.

Are there any other options??? (legal or otherwise)


To add to the discomfort of it, the return address is from 2 towns away. The creep lives within 10 miles.


I can only imagine the content of the letter. And it is causing me great stress. I was hoping to get some perspective and direction from folks who know the pain and confusion of having similar situations.

thanks for any assistance.

opt

Because it was a registered letter, I think you need to know what's in it.
What you do after depends ....

Opt, from a legal standpoint, if it was a registered letter and contains legal documents, you have effectively been served. Open it or have a third-party (attorney?) open it and read it. Since it's been seven days from the date of service, you may be running out of time to answer, if it's legal. What you don't want to happen is for him to get a default judgment based on your non-response.

Unfortunately, your "agreement", absent a ruling from the court terminating his rights, can be overturned or modified. All he would have to do to get the ball rolling is to file a motion requesting such. This doesn't mean he would win, but you would still have to deal with it. If however, the Court has terminated his rights, then he has no standing.

From an emotional standpoint, have someone you trust open it and read it. If it's not legal, keep it for your file if necessary. I can't imagine what he would want after 10 years.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this now.

Ugh. They never go away do they??? I agree with the rest. Plus, selfishly, I'm intrigued and hope u will share the contents with us. Cant imagine what he wants.

Thanks princessmeggy. Really important to consider the possible legal repercussions!

Opt, I'd HAVE to open it. Not knowing would drive me crazy! After you know what it's about you can develop a plan of action,,but,,not knowing?? I couldn't do that...

Yep, Meggy is right - you've accepted the contents of the package by signing for it.

Get in there and find out what the deal is so you can go forward with complete knowledge.

After you read the contents show them to your lawyer before you do anything. Try to maintain NC with OM let the lawyer handle this.

Okay folks, thanks very much. You have me on the right track. I trust your objective (and experienced) perspectives.

Just to add. The original (10 years ago) document was drawn up by my lawyer, signed by OM and notarized. This letter doesn't appear to be from a lawyer.

I have a lot of things going on right now. I'll open it later...

opt

Maybe OM died and left OC an inheritance.

**edit**

However, being that your lawyer acted as OM's lawyer whatever agreement was reached back then will not be considered valid because conflict of interest. Today a judge will say your lawyer acted to put your interests first. Denying OM adequate representation.

I also think OM knows about you getting divorced.

OM see's chance to get back into OC life because OC lives in home with only person that has DNA connection no longer living there (WW is divorced and gone).

Being OM is bio dad (? because no test was never done) this DNA connection will be his angle of attack to get back into OC's life.

Got this from my magic 8 ball.

TR, maybe I'm mistaken, but it sounds like his attorney didn't represent OM, he drew up a document as opt's counsel and had OM sign it.

I went back and re read this paragraph.

To me it went down like this. If BH and OM meet with BH's lawyer to talk about and have OM sign sign away his parental rights with BH's lawyer, paid by BH, answering (advising) OM's questions he was not given impartial advice.

Many agreements that have gone down this way have been overturned years later in court for this reason.



Yes this BH was wrong to let OM know he knocked up his WW.

And how can any man be asked to give up his paternal rights to a child without it being established that he is indeed the bio dad?

Oh what is in that registered mail?

I really can't thank you all enough for the support and kindness in all this. Your concern and consideration is so meaningful in a sea of confusion. You can't talk to "just anyone" about this stuff as it is so unique and almost unfathomable.

Quick update: the letter was inconsequential. I will traspose the text when I have a minute. Nothing legal, basically: "here's my info in case you want to contact me" and "I will not attempt to contact D10 without talking to you first."

Long update:
to answer a couple questions (in case it's relavent to others reading); my lawyer did not consult with OM. He drew up the paper, sent it to OM and he signed it with witnesses and notary present. I can send the text of that too if anyone is interested. A salient point was that "(OM) has had full opportunity to seek legal counsel in this matter prior to signing" (paraphrased).

Another point in all this is that indeed I should NEVER have disclosed the biology aspect to OM. Confrontation was beneficial in some ways, but not so much in others. My wife-at-the time and I were not having sex, so there was no doubt in my mind as to the facts (although in retrospect I suppose there could have been another OM involved). I consider it one of the 5 biggest mistakes of my life that I made that statement in the heat of the confrontation.

Thanks everyone again for the encouragement and certainly for your concern. Knowing there are folks in my corner, understanding the situation is helpful. Thanks for the chuckle as well, Road. I needed that.

I'll be back with what he said. I was quite relieved to say the least. It seems like he's taking the high road; although in these matters it's tough to rest easy-- Adultery: the gift that keeps on giving.

opt


*stangely: I have been working for another department for 2 weeks. The new territory is near where OM lived when I confronted him. Daily, I'm doing the same ride I did on that fateful day. I'll be glad to transition back home next week; it's all just too uncanny.

thanks for update

so here is the letter. and I have some questions (thanks for any continued guidance):
"Dear Opt,
as far as I know, D10 believes you are her biological father and I would not want to do anything to harm or disrupt that. if you thought your daughter needed to meet me, I would be open to considering it. I would need to hear that directly from you first. So when, if ever, you want to contact me, here is my information:..."
------------------------------------------
So, I could respond to this in a couple of ways, or not at all.
I truly would like to hear any insight.

I feel that except for balling another man's wife and the mother of a 5 year old for a few months 10 years ago, maybe he has a few moral fibers.

opt

Is it possible your Ex reached out to him and he is being good by checking with you first? Not sure if I would respond or not.

Opt,

As an OC I would have wanted my adoptive parents to reveal my biological origins sooner than they did, given that make the connection not for yourself but to maintain that option for your DD, you do not know what the future holds for her.
Think of OM as a backup father, should something happen to you he might come through with college tuition.

But it's not just OM that you are engaging with but hopefully his extended family as well, and there lies more value for OC.

It could be that your DD will have a great curiosity about where she came from and given her circumstances it would be hard to believe that she dosen't sense something.

God Bless
Gamma

My concern is not with the OM. I think he is suffering, knowing that he has a bio child that he will not get to raise or be involved with at all....however, that is a situation HE created by being the OM in the first place. So his suffering is inconsequential to me.

My concern is still your dd. Have you told her yet? For some reason I thought you had. So I am a little confused on that.

As far as responding to the OM...I would. I would not leave him hanging wondering if you actually got the letter (even though I know it was registered). My reply would be simple and to the point. 'Message received. There will be no contact at this time. If we ever need to contact you we now have your information.'

I agree with no contact with the OM/bio dad. My only concern is when to tell the child. She has a right to know. My ds is 11. I cannot fathom having to spring the news on him that his bio father is a man other than the one that has raised him.

Opt, the legal side of my brain thinks this letter is suspect and that it's almost like he is positioning himself legally. Why send THIS letter registered mail? I can't fathom what position that would be as he signed his rights away. This man is at the most a sperm donor, sorry.

He has made no contribution to the health and welfare of your daughter. He has allowed another man to raise his daughter, morally, financially, emotionally, and spiritually. NOW, he thinks you may be open to allowing him in her life? It might be different if your daughter was the one seeking him out and not the other way around. He has no right to appear at this point in her young impressionable life. I worry that he even thought this was okay or that it is something you would entertain. You are her father and have been protecting her and supporting her for her whole life.

He could be a changed man and wanting to make amends. Heck, he could have seen the recent movie "Courageous" and got the idea from that. Who knows? But he's clearly not thinking of her best interest. He may be feeling guilt but I would think he would have expressed his reasoning to you. He didn't. He just made it known what HE would like.

As her father, I would tuck this away for the day, if it ever comes, when she reaches out. Otherwise, I don't think you owe him anything.

Optimism, I don't post here anymore, but I had to respond to you.

If it were me, I would not respond to the OM's letter at all. If I recall correctly, your DD does know the truth. From OM's letter, he seems to be under the impression that she doesn't know, so it seems unlikely that he has been in contact with your ex-wife. Surely she would have told him that you had told your DD if they were in contact.

I don't think a response is necessary. It might just encourage him to initiate more contact. It's a good thing that he thinks your DD doesn't know and that he's willing to continue with NC as long as you see fit. Your DD may want to meet OM someday, but this should wait until she is an adult. Once she's 18, then she can make that decision for herself.

W1/Opt,

Your DD may want to meet OM someday, but this should wait until she is an adult. Once she's 18, then she can make that decision for herself.

There is also a whole other family out there who are her people, don't allow time to take away her chance to know them even as curiosities. No one should have to visit their long dead parents grave with almost no recollection of who they were as I did.

God Bless
Gamma

But Gamma, this man has not been a "parent". I'm so sorry for what you went through as a child but you would have wanted to know, right? I don't think Opt's daughter has expressed this. Another question is where were all these people when he (OM) made the decision to sign his rights away? Why didnt they speak up back then?

I guess I'm coming at this from the position of my husband's childhood. He was taken away from his parents when he was very young and not one family member came forward to help. Then when he became an adult he searched his mother out and found her. It was the worst mistake of his life. All those years and tears he wasted over the years trying to have his mother's love only to realize just now this late in life that she made her choices long ago. Oh sure, it made her fee all warm and fuzzy that her son sought her out and validated her as a mother for awhile. But her true colors came out eventually. She is still just as selfish now as she was back then when she let her kids go. My husband's real dad passed away from cirrhosis of the liver before my husband could find him but he was no father.

Most of these situations do not end like a Lifetime movie. Opt needs to continue to protect his daughter's heart and emotions. She is who is she is today because of Opt, not this man who signed her away.

Gamma,

I am an OC too. I had very little interaction with my father while I was growing up and I didn't know his family at all. I haven't seen my father since I was 14 and I've only met one other person in his family, my half-sister. This is my choice. I know where my father is, but I choose not to contact him. I didn't grow up with him and to me, those people are not my "family."

Opt's daughter may feel differently, or she may not. But a 10-year-old isn't mature enough to make that decision. Opt has never mentioned that his DD has any desire to meet the OM. If she changes her mind, then he can provide her with whatever info. he has about the OM when she turns 18 and she can meet him then. That's how we are going to handle it with the OM in our case.

PM,

My biological family on my Mothers side was 65% a horror show, but there were also good people on her side and a grandmother I missed seeing by only one year. I in no way expect any meeting to be all sweetness, but it's almost like not asking the details of an affair even if they are ugly they are the truth.

Biology is not 100% destiny, but it must be at least 30%?

God Bless
Gamma

I agree the child doesn't need to be exposed to ANY of the bio family. Whether or not they are decent people or not is irrelevant at this point. She needs the security of being raised as the child of Opt as he is doing now.

The ONLY thing I question is that she deserves to know the truth. And I think she does....still fuzzy on that right now. But once she knows there is bio/sperm donor out there...nothing more needs to be said about it until she is an adult...unless she asks questions....and I would answer those but still not allow contact at this point even if she wanted.

Opt, thanks for posting the contents of the letter.

I am with W1 and PM. HOWEVER, if I remember correctly you don't have DNA proof, correct? I would MOST DEFINITELY NOT DO ANYTHING until you have proof. You are certain that OC is not yours, and I think fairly certain she is THIS OM's, but what a horrible situation it would be for the OC if THIS OM was not her bio dad. Hey, you never know...stranger things have happened.

If it were me, I would file the letter away and not act on it at all. Then if and when the time comes that you reveal paternity to OC, and IF THIS OM is indeed her bio dad, you can give her the choice to pursue C or NC. She is too young and immature to make that call now.

Keep us posted......

I sure do appreciate all of your thoughts and insights. Really I do. I have a lot to consider and fortunately I don't believe there is an undue urgency at this time so I will give some thought and do some praying for now.

To clear up a couple of things. DD10 was informed of her biological roots over the summer. I wrote about it on writer's thread "telling OC the truth" - a total thread-jack. Incidentally, she expressed no interest in meeting OM. She said she feels special that I fought for her (there was a possibility of abortion a couple times along the road) and she knows I'm her real Daddy.
She has since thrived as much as before she knew. She's doing very well, has great friends, teachers like her, she's active and healthy and very loved by many.

One point in all this is that Medically I have insight that is probably a luxury to many in this situation. OM sent a full medical history shortly after DD10 was born. It's not extremely significant, but knowing this and where to contact him could feasibly be beneficial.

There was never a DNA test done. So, really if there is some sort of positioining going on, I have a pretty strong position to at least make things very difficult for him. I also have a VERY good lawyer who is tremendously pro-child.

I will plan to protect my daughter's wellfare. There's no question about that.

Opt

As an update:
[regarding a letter I received from OM/OC's Bio Father in January]:
I never responded. It's been 5 months since I signed for the registered letter.
I did hear last week however that he is (supposedly) getting married soon, and that he has been dating someone for some time. This from exWW who "heard it through the grapevine." Why did it come up? DD was supposedly asking about him to exWW. So then DD came to me with that information. Apparently, she does wonder about him from time to time...

Also, she was last night talking about her genetic make-up ("I'm half Italian, and, what is the rest of me, Daddy?"); with another friend. It was only one step away from 'my biological dad is French.' I believe very few know about this situation. I changed the subject as best I could. I'm not comfortable talking about it, not outside the family...

Any advice on how I should handle these situations? I don't believe my daughter understands the stigma that might be attached to her if it becomes widespread knowledge that I'm not her biological father. Or perhaps it is me who doesn't understand the value of allowing people to know and seeing her as the incredible wonderful human being she is, in spite of the circumstances under which she was conceived.

Since my divorce, I have embraced the truth; latched onto it like never before in my life, and I'm much better for it. I have a great relationship with someone who feels the same way. I have tried to reinforce that concept above all in raising my kids and they seem to be benefitting greatly from it. This situation, is not necessarily just about truth however, in my view. It's about someone's personal business and how it affects perceptions of them in a modern society/community - a small community with provincial views.

I appreciate any insight.

Opt

A non-family person asks any sort of OC-related question, and you don't want to answer .... You say:

"That's quite a personal question. How often do you yourself answer random personal questions?"

Make every reply a question.

"I'm so happy she is my daughter. Isn't she beautiful?" (sweet, good, talented, funny, etc)

If they persist, they are rude.

Tell them .... "I think that's too personal a question for you to ask. Don't you find asking personal questions makes for awkward situations?"

Opt.

I don't believe my daughter understands the stigma that might be attached to her if it becomes widespread knowledge that I'm not her biological father.

In a sense asking her to deny who she is a violation of the law of identity A=A, you are asking OC to be someone other than who she is.

I am an OC and throughout my childhood told lies about my ethnic background because it was all that I knew about myself, or more accurately all that I had been told about myself.

Had I known better I would have pushed for the truth earlier on and broadcast it widely, better to suffer the judgements of others then to knowingly lie and create internal conflict.

God Bless
Gamma

Pep and Gamma,
I appreciate your responses. Thanks to you both.

I get the jist of what you are saying. I will continue to hold to the truth and let the chips fall where the may. My daughter is aware of her genetic situation. She is also quite intuitive and emotionally intelligent; I'd like to leave it up to her who she informs about all this and who she doesn't. She has not been made to feel ashamed of anything, in fact quite the opposite as she has many who love her tremendously and she has natural confidence it seems.

I'm just not sure how to direct her in this as it is indeed personal information and I feel is something that should be shared with only those who are close to her. People (kids) CAN be cruel with information, and I simply don't want her to be hurt.

opt

I just wanted to lend my support.

Your intentions are commendable because you have your daughters best interest at heart.

Have you thought about emailing Dr. Harley and asking him?

Opt,

I'm just not sure how to direct her in this as it is indeed personal information and I feel is something that should be shared with only those who are close to her. People (kids) CAN be cruel with information, and I simply don't want her to be hurt.

Perhaps one way to look at this is that she is not 1/2 of a person, that is she has a fully legitimate Mother, and a shadowy story of a father. Rather she has 3 families and is more like 3/2 of a person in terms of the complexity of her background, sort of a person who traveled alot. I think this might give her a kind of immunity to the opinions of others.

I've come to accept that I have 5 families and my story will never be simple, but it is the story that is true.

God Bless
Gamma

Well Gamma you have a tremendous insight. I can't tell you how much I appreciate you sharing that. I have no idea how I could have gained that anywhere else. You are a gift here.

See, this is, I believe almost exactly how D10 feels. She has said things that resemble this line of thinking. She is quite incredible to me. Of course I get nervous about her wanting to find out more. I want to hold on to her. I want her to be MINE and not be concerned with spermdonor. She also is unaware that Genfather has some clinical depression, as has his mother some serious psycosocial issues; I don't know about the rest of the family, but I don't believe it's a pretty picture (brothers/sisters if any). It just seems way too complicated to try to get into at this juncture. I would rather she wait and let this whole part of it sink in. Til she's 18 would be fine with me. I want to be her only Father until she's an "adult". I believe I have that right.

We continue to have a great relationship based on honesty and trust. She knows she can talk to me about anything without reactions on my part or judgements (thanks MB!).

Anyway. Thanks again for your insight, Gamma. You've brought up the thought to me that perhaps it's not children's cruelty that is important but the recipient's ability to handle it successfully.

opt

Opt,

Thanks, your daughter is decades ahead of me in terms of her insights however.

A difficult decision, which you may not have to deal with, is what to do if a member of her biological family is near death. This happened with my bio Mom, so I never got to see her alive.

God Bless
Gamma

Opt,

Gamma's POV is one, and it is certainly a legitimate one, but it is not the only one.

I am an OC as well. I've only met 2 people on my bio dad's side of the family, and one of those was my dad himself, who I haven't seen since I was 14. I have no desire to meet any of them. I didn't grow up with them and they do not feel like my family. There was a time when I was growing up that I was curious about them, and I did eventually contact my half-sister. I met with her once and she told me a lot about that side of my family that I didn't previously know. But I've never felt the need to contact her or anyone else again.

It's difficult to say how your daughter will feel. She's still very young. Maybe she will be curious and she will want to meet them. Maybe she won't. I do think it's a good idea to wait until she is 18 at least, then it will be up to her if she wants to search for her bio dad's family or not. She is much too young to have the maturity necessary to make this decision now.

Ditto Writer1

That's exactly how we handled our 2 adopted kids' interest in their DNA relatives.
Funny, after they were both 18, they have zero interest in finding the DNA folks. Both our kids are just too busy living interesting lives as young adults.

****edit*****

Geez TheRoad, that was harsh. W1 has pulled things together and is restoring her marriage. She has made efforts ALL of us BS's wish our WS's would make.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.....

Thanks JustUss........

Eh, whatever.

I was at Disneyland with my family all day, so I didn't see what TheRoad wrote. I'm assuming I didn't miss much.

I was just giving my experience as on OC as far as wanting to have contact with my bio father's family so that Opt. would know that not all OC's have the same desire to know about their biological heritage. Like Pep said, I'm just too busy living my life to concern myself too much with people I don't know and have no real connection too, other than DNA of course, which just doesn't seem that important to me.

And your experience that you shared with us about being an OC was very much appreciated.

So thank you.

I missed the fun. It's like going out from a party to get more beer and coming home to find the cops have cleared everyone out.

Writer and Gamma I appreciate all insights. As I said this is just not something that people talk about freely in normal everyday conversations, so I often feel all alone. It's good to know there are good people out there with similar experiences and that various paths can be taken.

I dated a girl once (literally once, boy did I screw that one up..., lol) who shared with me that she was adopted. She was like 20 and had pursued meeting her DNA mother. She said it was good but I'll never forget she was very clear: my parents that raised me are my real parents. There was no question in her mind.

cheers!
opt

Opt I wasn't an OC but I was a child born out of wedlock in 1965 (Bio dad wasn't interested and my mom just ran away from him and he didn't hear from her again I was 7)....and then my mom married a man and had my brother with him so he is mostly who I think of when I think of my 'dad'.

My mom was big on the truth. And while I appreciate that about her I wish she had told fewer people that I had a different father. It felt like it was my information to share.....it wouldnt have mattered in my case because I was a year old when she married my dad (not my bio dad)...but it did make me feel 'different'.

In the case of your dd she has the opportunity for no one to know until she is ready to tell. Explain to her that keeping that very private information private isn't a lie, but rather her right....and once she lets go of the information she can't pull it back in. I would tell her that. I would tell her that you request that she keep this information private until she is 18.

Of course she is curious. I certainly was. And eventually I was found by my half sister and she and I have bonded unbelievably. Not so much with bio dad, but we do speak when I go to visit my sister.

So as Writer pointed out, every situation is different and every person has a story. Your dd just has an unusual one.

Thanks for your insight SW. I believe I will have this conversation with DD. It goes along with the boundaries discussions we've had.
opt