Here's the situation. My BH and I have an OC we are raising together, but now OM is getting involved. We are in final stages of coming to an agreement about child support and custody, but we're torn on what to do. Our attnys think we should rail the OM for as much child support and as little custody as possible (they are confident a court will go in our favor if it ends up going to court), but we don't want any more tension between us all than is already there for the sake of OC. Any advice on what we should do? We kinda feel like OM is taking advantage of us, but we also don't want to make things worse.

Wow, so you lost the fight against the interloper? I am so sorry. Since OC is young, I would give him as little time as possible until OC is older and OM can prove he is a fit parent.

WH,

I am with your lawyer on this no matter what happens in your lives the money for OC will still be useful to OC.

My adoptive parents magnanimously declined my biological fathers offer of money which I could have used for college.

God Bless
Gamma

Has anyone else ever dealt with an every other weekend visitation schedule? My BH and I would have primary care, but OM would get every other weekend. How hard is that to deal with as a parent?

So, you cant keep OM out of the picture entirely.
I am so sorry for your BH, I would not be able to deal with that.

In that case I agree completely with your lawyer, hit him as hard as you can in the wallet and give him the absolute minimum time with the child.

If you don't "Need" the money, then think of it as punitive damages and restitution for your BH.
Heck, if you don't want to keep it, put it in a trust for OC, or heck...give it to a charity if you want.

Maybe this will run OM off after a wile.

Hard, even harder for your BH

You do understand that BH should not endure contact with OM, and you flat out CAN NOT have ANY contact with him, in any way, EVER!

You will need intermediary to handle picking up and dropping of OC and all communications wile maintaining NC.

Don't know if you are just looking for situations with OC, but my WXH has every other weekend visitation (one night each weekend). It is brutal. Especially at first....

WH,

...give it to a charity if you want.

DON'T DO THAT, this is OCs money,

You are the only ones who can stand as advocates for OC.

God Bless
Gamma

Gack, my BH is handling this better than I ever imagined. We're actually doing pretty good, all things considering. And he wants to handle all contact with OM, but I definitely will stay firm on never seeing OM ever again.

SmilingWoman, OM is asking for Friday night to Sunday night (two overnights every other wkend), but you mentioned only one overnight every other weekend. I'm going to see if we can push for that instead. Thanks for mentioning that.

As for the child support, Gamma, we'll probably put it aside for the OC's future and some into savings, so at least BH can get "something" out of all of this... though it makes us both sick to even think about.

Ug...sometimes I really can't believe this is my life. What I did to my family.

Is Money what you love?

I hope my OC is better than that.

If she is not, than I believe "I" may have failed as a parent.

If you don't need it, perhaps a charity in OC's name.

Give to others that which you do not need, nothing in life can feel more rewording.

Of course if you need/want it, use it in whatever way you see fit.Like I said, perhaps restitution for BH.

OC is only 1, still a baby. Two overnights is not appropriate at that age. Give him absolutely the minimum and do not start out with overnights. That man needs to earn your and your BH's trust where OC is concerned. I would ask for court mandated parenting classes and for a court liason to be assigned. Let OM pay for the court costs since this is his fight. I would also ask for a court assigned social worker to inspect where OC will be living when with OM. PUSH BACK HARD.

Thanks, FF. That's excellent advice. We really don't want to make this easy for him to disrupt every part of our lives. But I think the class is a great idea. What's the liason's job?

Gack, as for the $, we could always use the money. We've lost so much in court costs already fighting this, so we'd like to get some of that back. Not just that, but if OM wants to play "dad" then my BH feels he should put his $ where his mouth is. We've paid for everything for OC so far--and happily--but if OM wants to waltz in and try to take her from us, we want him to think twice. Money means little to us, since we've gotten by on much less just fine, but OM wants to disrupt everything, so we should at least get back some of what he's cost us financially.

Some mistakes cost so much. We just don't want OC to pay for them.

I didn't realize your OC is just one year old! What is the standard for visitation in your area for that young?

I don't think he even needs over nights AT ALL until the child is at least 2. Then just one night at a time until age 3.

My son is 11. XH gets Friday from 6 p.m. until Sat at 6 p.m and then Sunday from 2 p.m until 8 p.m. That schedule every other weekend. And every Wed evening 5:30 to 8:30.

He also gets 3 weeks of vacation every year...one week at a time (anytime since ds is homeschooled) to increase to 6 weeks only as XH's vacation time increases.

That is it. No holidays. It is a fairly abbreviated visitation schedule. I got it because I had so much evidence against XH that he didn't want drug into court.

Sounds like a good reason to me.

Smiling, that's a schedule I would be more inclined toward. I wasn't even married to OM, so really, what can he possibly expect? My attny said there's no clear-cut answer to what the court would grant if we dragged it that far. He may get nothing (we would love that, but there's no guarantee), or he may get more than our offer. No way to tell. Depends on the mood of a judge. We want to settle out of court mainly to avoid dragging this out even longer. We've saved up $ to go to court if needed, but it's emotionally exhausting. I am going to run your schedule past my BH and see what he thinks. Though we already all agreed that it would not be anything right off the bat. It'll take time to work into a schedule, since OC never met OM and to her he's a stranger and she's a bit of a shy child.

want,

altho your story and mine took a slightly different route you have arrived at the same intersection i walked thru nearly 8 years ago.

when om 1st started seeing our dd she was about 18 - 20 months.

at 1st he only had a few of hours on every other saturday 9 - 6 and every wednesday evenings from 4pm - 8pm if i remember right. no over nights. that went on until she was about 2 1/2

then over nights started. at 1st they were from friday 6pm to saturday at 6pm for another 6 months. at that point they went from friday 6pm to sunday 6pm. he still had every wednesday from 4pm to 8pm

weekday and weekends have remained that way since.

also since about the time she turned 5 or 6 he also has every other holiday for new years, Easter, Memorial day, 4th of July, labor day, thanksgiving, her b-day and Christmas. he gets fathers day, we have mothers day. time on holidays is usually 9am - 6pm unless they fall on the monday of his weekend visits. then he gets the extra day (sometimes)

can't remember what state you are in but in Calif they they break it down in 2 catagories. Primary and/or Joint Custodial (sorry it's been so long i can't remember if custodial is the actual term used) and Legal. it is way more IMPORTANT that you gain PRIMARY CUSTODIAL. and if you have to give something you begrudgingly agree to Joint Legal. you always want be the oc's primary home.

i'm betting that he is like most of us arogant(spell that ignorant) men thinking that with the term "joint legal" he gains something. NOT. all he gains is the right to allow medical treatment (God forbid) it should be needed.

as far as the cs goes. i say take all you can get. if you don't need it stash it in an account for oc's education or when she turns 21 or something.

i would venture to say that since om has pushed this far that cs will not deter him. if it does you just hit the lotto

like your H wants to do, i handled all pick-ups and drop offs.

there will be pitfalls and heart aches but you can both get thru them

WH,
My feeling is to do everything you can to keep OM out of your life.
Here's my experience, so you know why I say it:
I was lucky. My exWW's OM signed an agreement (drawn up by a lawyer and safe in my safe deposit box) not to even attempt to come around until OC (D9) is at least 18. He has been wise enough to comply, as far as I know he's fallen off the face of the earth. Hopefully he has moved on and started a family of his own. Fortunately, my exWW was merciful enough not to pursue anything with him and didn't push for him to see D9~ I still marvel at how MBish she was just by her own volition; she went total NC.

Anyway, I've been able to have a relatively normal relationship with my D9. No amount of CS would make up for the disruption of having D9 go with OM, even for 5 minutes per week. I would be a wreck.


I hope your BH can get as lucky as me.

opt

For your BH's sake I don't understand why you don't fight shared custody all the way.

Also you were never clear on did the judge order a paternity test our did you volunteer that you had a test done?

Why in the world would you volunteer that info?

OM had an at-home test done that says he's bio dad that has been submitted to the court. We definitely won't have a shared custody situation (50/50) since I'm a stay-at-home mom and OC is still breastfeeding and not in OCs best interest, but we're trying to get OM to agree to less than 2 overnights. We're even willing to accept less cs in order to keep him down to 1 overnight, but he's fighting back hard. While we're still considering going back to court, it's very iffy with the courts. It's a huge gamble on both ends, which is why we're trying to negotiate. I don't think I could accept Pops' arrangment; that seems like too much to me. OC's very attached to us and doesn't take to strangers well if I'm not there. I guess the bottom line is that if OM doesn't accept only 1 overnight we'll have to duke it out in court. There's always the chance the court will give him no rights or anything. That's my prayer, at least.

Pops, how does your OC handle shifting between families? Does she seem okay with it? How do you explain it to new people you meet? Does everyone know she's an OC, or does that not come up much?

Want, did your lawyers specifically tell you that the at-home test OM did was legally binding? Who is listed as the father on OC's birth certificate?

I was wondering the same thing. MAKE him get a court ordered DNA test. MAKE him do the hard work. TELL him you will fight for him to pay for all court costs, again this is HIS battle not yours. Is your BH listed at the father on the BC? I still say NO overnights until OC is at least 2 years old and you are done breast feeding. Have you done a background check on OM?

His test is NOT legally admissable, but his attny submitted it anyways. His attny will possibly use that as evidence to support a ruling for a legal DNA test to be done. There's always that chance that they'll reject his request. Even if they do grant his DNA test, that gives him nothing yet. He then has to de-legitimate and re-legitimate OC, which is done before a jury. That's why we're not too afraid to play hardball and end up in court, because there's always that chance we'll keep him out (until OCs 18, at least). And yes, BH is on BC.

The only reason we're willing to negotiate out of court is because we can't be sure which way court will go. It's like a terrible game of chess. If we can keep him down to 1 overnight every other weekend, we can live with that and it would be better than the worst case the courts may award him. Plus going to court will likely cost about $50,000. Big bucks... It's a lot of money to gamble with, yknow?

My BH did a background check, and he's got a record, which we can use against him.

I like the idea of no overnights until 2. OC's still really a baby and can't even be without me for more than a couple hours at most right now. And she's a total daddy's girl; crazy about BH and wakes up every morning to his face.

Well, I think at this point we're willing to accept 1 overnight every other weekend--starting at age 2--and if he doesn't accept we'll take our chances in court. We don't care about the cs $; that's not a point of contention for us if it will help persuade OM to give up an extra overnight. I think it's a more than fair offer...especially if OM doesn't want to be sued by BH, which we've also been recommended to do by BH's attny.

If it were me and my child, I would fight it all the way. It's in the best interests of everyone involved to keep the OM out of your lives. If there was a possibility that could happen, I would go to court and fight it all the way. There aren't a lot of marriages that could survive having OM in the picture, so if it's possible to keep him out, I would suggest you do that.

I know it's a huge gamble. I've been there. Many years ago, I was involved in a custody battle with my ex. We were not married, but we lived together and had two kids together (now 18 and 20). He was pushing hard for joint legal and physical custody, even though he had nowhere to live (was living in his car and on friends' couches) and also had a criminal record. The battle was long and scary and, yes, expensive. But in the end, it was worth it. He was ultimately given only supervised visitation (due to his past and instability) and disappeared soon after the judgement was made. This was a man I thought would never give up and go away, but he eventually did. He re-materialized a few years ago, and my kids chose to meet him. They now regret that decision, refuse to have anything to do with him, and thank me for keeping this person out of their lives.

You really don't know anything about this OM. Your BH is the only father your OC has ever known. I think most judges are going to take this sort of thing into consideration. Your BH is the OC's legal father right now. Do not just give that up without a fight! If you give in now and just allow the OM to have rights without having to fight for them, you are willingly placing your BH, your marriage, your family, and your OC in danger. Your BH may think he can handle having OM in the picture now, but what if he can't when it comes right down to it? I doubt my marriage would have survived something like that.

want, please reconsider negotiating with OM and fight for your OC an family! OM has a HUGE uphill battle to get your H off the BC and de-ligitmize your OC. He is NOT the father in the eyes of the law and an at home DNA does not count in the eyes of the law.

Thank you for the encouragement to fight. The more I think about it, I really think you're right. It's a chance of keeping him out, and a chance is enough to make the gamble worth it. My BH and I never felt "good" about negotiating anyways. We only considered it to avoid a worst case scenario, but what about the best case scenario? We can't forget that we could keep him out for good. I'll talk to my hubby about it and see what he says, and I'll let you know. I feel so much stronger after getting your encouragement!

**************Pops, how does your OC handle shifting between families?*************

She handles it fine now and has for about 3 - 4 years i quess. before that there was some of the worst heartache i have known and that includes being a bh.

***********Does she seem okay with it?*************

yes, one of the biggest factors was om got a new gf that was nice to her. om's new gf became preg quickly baby and oc loves her new 1/2 brother. all she sees is that she has 7 bro/sis at our house and 3 bro/sis at om house. she doesn't separate them just says she is lucky to have 10 bo/sis.

************How do you explain it to new people you meet?********

I don't even try to explain it unless someone asks. when people see us together it is assumed that i am the father/dad b/c of how close oc and me are. if someone does ask i simply tell them that she is my w had a brief A during a rough time in our marriage. that we worked our way thru it and are doing fine.

funny you ask that. on thursday a friend of ours asked me at oc's soccer practice "how fh and me were doing". i said what do you mean. with the economy, $$ is tight but we are getting by.

she said no about oc and our marriage. I said that all that is behind us now and we are doing just fine. and we are

**********Does everyone know she's an OC, or does that not come up much?**********

most everyone knows about what happened. it is so long ago and we have been around all our friends as a happy family that is raely brought up or questioned

i am the kind of person that has to move forward. i cannot linger in the past. life is what it is. we have to deal with whatever God hands us and move on. if he gives us lemons, let's make lemonade.

quite frankly i like having my enemies where i can see them

want

negotiating with om is doing you no good in this situation. that will only give ammunition to om should it go to court.

he will use it as "they were admitting that he was the bio and that you were willing to deal". not good for you.

i say force him to persue it thru the courts.

Writer, thanks for the terminology i was looking for joint or sole legal and/or physical custody.

want if it should come down to this you want "sole physical custody" and om gets visitation only. this is by far the most important thing you can do for you and your h. like i said before use "joint legal" as a bargaining chip if needed to make om think he is getting something.

Want, I feel so much better reading this. I think this is the right attitude. I hope you can develop an acute case of amnesia In all matters related to OM � I hope you can treat him as a stranger who is trying to maliciously invade and disrupt your family. Make him earn what he thinks he�s entitled to because he�s really entitled to nothing. Was he even TRYING to make a baby? I doubt it. Did he LOVE you? I think not. He already got what he wanted � you in the sack. He deserves nothing more and it�s NOT valiant to make believe he should be involved with YOUR daughter.

Sorry if I get a little emotional. I don�t hold OM�s in much esteem. And I was one once.

opt
Edit: **after I posted I realized I actually was never a om, but a wh. I don't hold either in much regard. **

WH,

Did you expose OM to his workplace, clients, parents, siblings, church community and others? This might take the wind out of his sails, and eliminate the terror you might feel of others finding out. Exposure being less expensive than lawyers.

Although I am in favor generally of a child knowing their social background and genetic heritage, I also believe everything should be done in the open.

God Bless
Gamma

Gamma, OM doesn't care about exposure. Everyone knows, and he isn't the least bit concerned what people think of him or the situation. I think he thinks he's being an upstanding guy by trying to get involved. So exposure hasn't detered him in any way, and while I believe in openness and honesty, I think that each decision regarding OC should be made with the bigger picture in mind. I don't think he sees the bigger picture.

wanthealing, I wanted to move your post here that you posted on the "befriending the OW" thread so you would see it here.

wanthealing, I believe this can probably be changed. I would ask your attorney if a replacement can be named and if not, what it will take to make that happen. Your H should not be put in that in position or he will be perpetually triggered by the reminder of the affair. If you need it, you might could even enlist Dr Harley to write a letter for the court. But there is no good reason, and lots of bad reasons why your H should be placed in this position. I would get this changed.

I am sorry the OM got any rights at all.

I agree. I would definitely try to have this changed. Even finding another family member to do it would be better. This really seems like way too much to expect from your BH. I'm not sure if he volunteered to be the one to act as mediator, thinking he would be able to handle it, but I think it's a very bad idea to have your H have to interact directly with the OM on a regular basis. Did you ask for a paid, third-party mediator? Usually such a request will be granted if you request it, though you and your H may have to pay half of the costs involved. That would still be far better than the alternative.

Are you getting CS from the OM? I would pursue this aggressively and get as much as possible. Also, was OM given any custodial rights, or just visitation? Who has legal/primary physical custody of the OC? Will your H be allowed to remain on the birth certificate?

I am very sorry you are having to go through this. Maybe your situation will turn out like mine. When my ex was granted supervised visitation (with a mediator he had to help pay for) and ordered to start paying CS, he promptly disappeared and didn't try to contact the kids for 15 years. This was someone who dragged me through court for 2 years and fought for both physical and legal custody and swore he would never back down. So there is always hope.

wanthealing, I am so, so sorry that POSOM got any rights. Our courts have gone too far in their being determined to destroy the basis of a good society...the family unit. This interloper has no business in your marriage at all. As the others already stated please do what you can do undo this "order" for your BH to have to interact with xOM. Please also continue to work the program to rebuild your M.

What was the decision regarding CS and visitation?

Agree, FF.

wanthealing, it has been my experience after 10 years of watching legal actions from the sidelines over on the SAA board that most attorneys will take the path of least resistance if allowed. Their goal is to make everything easy FOR THEM and get you to go along with it. They tend to be lazy.

For that reason, you have to TELL HIM what you need and tell him to make that happen. He works for you, after all. In my experience on the SAA board, when it is presented that way to most attorneys, they tend to move their [censored] and act on your behalf. Some have even hired different attorneys but many got what they wanted.

For example, we always tell BS's in Plan B to not allow their children to be exposed to the OP when with the WS. Almost every attorney says "that can't be done." But when the BS tells the attorney to MAKE THAT HAPPEN! suddenly it gets done and is negotiated as part and parcel of the separation agreement! Another favorite lazy tactic is to say "the judge won't like that!!" The attorney should be told to use his skills get it through.

You just have to be assertive with your attorney and don't accept "that can't be done," the most famous motto of conflict avoider attorneys.

We hired the most aggressive attny we could find, but unfortunately I live in a VERY pro-bio state. We even looked to move, but we were told that we could be extradited if we did and our state would most likely grant OM more custody than what we ended up with (every other weekend). BH decided he would rather do every other weekend and deal with OM than risk losing OC for weeks at a time.

We ended up hiring two other attnys to help push OM out, but he's got $ and was able to push back. Now he has legal rights and visitation.

BH will still be on BC, but only as my husband, not bio father.

I was thinking we could have FIL handle supervised visits, since he's very close with OC, but it's a lot of time to ask of him, since at the beginning it's a lot of hours just sitting with OM and OC. I mean, how awkward is THAT? And the reason the courts ordered us to supervise was because OC really gets bad sep anxiety when away from me and felt it was in "best interest" of child, which is what they base everything on nowadays...even if it's to detriment of M. But the supervision will only last for a few months until OC adjusts. Then perhaps we can arrange for OC to be picked up at FIL's house so that we don't have to deal with OM. But I still will check on having a mediator.

I'm praying for OM to decide this isn't what he hoped it would be and ends up going away, writer!

Oh, and yes, OM is responsible for CS. We didn't end up railing him there, mainly because we had the option for more CS and a 50/50 arrangement or less CS and he only gets every other weekend. We wanted more OC and less $.

My prayers are with you, wanthealing

Thanks, FF. I sure need 'em!

you need to get "primary physical custody".

if push comes to shove allow om "joint legal custody"

That would be much preferable to having your H deal with this. It would better for all involved if your FIL could do this. It will be horrendous for your H to have to sit there with the OM. Like Dr Harley said, its like inviting your rapist to Thanksgiving dinner for the BS to be exposed to the OP. Your marriage has already been through hell and I would do what you have to do in order to protect it. That is in the best interest of your child.

We do have primary physical custody; OM only has visitation and joint legal custody. And we were able to get BH legal rights as well--similar to an open adoption, where if something happens to me or our M BH will still be entitled to OC.

As for your advice, Mel, I will see what BH says. Unfortunately BH has not yet agreed to tell in-laws about the situation, mainly because a DNA test had yet to be taken and he didn't want to tell until we knew for sure. Plus he wanted to wait until everything was over due to his mother's health condition. Now that everything's just about over, I'm begging him to get the exposure over with. So as of yet we don't know what will happen with in-laws--whether there will still be relationship or not. But I'm hoping they will forgive and accept our current situation and help us in this way so that BH does not have to suffer anymore than he already has. We'll see...

wanthealing, the longer he waits to tell his parents, the harder it will be. I would encourage him to get this done ASAP. You both need their support.

Instead of "begging" .... time to implement POJA.
You do understand POJA, right?

POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT

*** LINK *** CONFLICT RESOLUTION

Conflict resolution, the MB way, will help you avoid making love-bank withdrawals.

Begging is unattractive and also coercive. Love-busting behavior.

But, MB is not just a resolution-solving program .... it is a way to restore ROMANTIC LOVE between spouses.

Pick up the tool of POJA, and use it.
The tool is not the goal.
A happy in love couple is the goal.

Click this *** LINK *** .... and scroll down to read some POJA discussion on MB 101 forum.

Thanks, Pep. We've done really good with POJA for other aspects of this situation--and basic daily decisions so far--but this is one area BH has firm beliefs against exposure and I differ. Obviously I respect and understand why BH hesitates to expose; he doesn't agree with my points on why it's better sooner than later. But I'm worried that like what Mel says, the longer we wait, the worse it will be.

I don't know how else to explain the benefit of getting it over with.

May I suggest your and your H (together) send one or 2 email questions to The Harley Radio program.
Here is how to email your question.

want

when you and your h decide to tell the family make sure you do it "together".

i remember that time clearly. your family will take their cue from you and h's attitude.

at first they may be shocked and confused. but when you and h tell them and show them that the 2 of you are together united and working to better your marriage my bet is they will jump right on board

your h is a good man with great character. he has to come from good stock

just wanted to add that when the visitations start and your h is still the intermedary. that doesn't mean he has to sit with om and chat it up.

those visits should be someplace like a park, mc donalds, zoo, beach. someplace that the oc relates with fun. it will make it much easier on oc.

once oc feels comfortable he should allow om to have some space but your h always needs to be where oc can see him.

at this young age feeling secure is paramount. the oc needs to know that you and your h will always be there. which we all know is a given

Let's hope for his sake, he is not put in that position if her FIL agrees to be the intermediary. I cannot imagine anything more traumatic than this. Like Harley says it is like inviting the rapist to Thanksgiving dinner.

wanthealing: How soon is visitation with the OM set the start?

Visitation is supposed to begin by the end of this month.

Pops, I do truly appreciate your encouragement about exposure. BH and I talked last night and we both finally came to agreement about exposing next week with our pastor mediating.

Oddly, BH isn't that upset about the A. He is more concerned about OC being abused by this stranger. In fact, when I told him about A he didn't even seem upset. He was more upset about sharing OC. I think this is why he wants to handle supervision. I'll let BH make that decision, but I'm hoping FIL will still be open to handling it. I think it will help keep OM a much more safe distance away from our family.

want, so the DNA came back and the baby is OM's? I thought I read you had not done DNA yet.

Also, were you court-ordered to take a DNA test? Did you ever get a ruling from a judge that OM was the legal father and was entitled to visitation, or did you concede OM's claim for those things?

Earlier, you were suggesting that you might settle OM's claim rather than continue to fight him. Settling is not at all the same as being order to take a DNA test and having OM declared the legal father. Unless you were court-ordered to have the test, I don't think you can say that you lost the fight.

What was the legal ruling?

hopefully your FIL will be able to be the intermediary.

as odd as it may sound your baby's age may actually be a blessing. being so young it may enable oc to bond a little so the exchanges won't be so traumatic

We did finally go to court, and the laws grant a DNA test pretty much any time it is requested. We tried to appeal it, but we had no grounds to appeal it. So a DNA test was done and came back with OM as sperm doner. Once that was done, we were forced to mediate, in which we all agreed to every other weekend, mainly because if we went to court we risked 50/50. So that pretty much sums up the last several weeks of events. The only thing we're waiting on is legitimating OC, at which point the visitation will begin. Apparently it takes a while to de-ligitimate and re-legitimate a child.

Today my BH told me he is concerned about how a lack of relationship between us and OM will effect OC. I'm not sure how to explain the problems with being friends. Other than that it could lead to another A, what else can I say to explain how bad it will be for all parties involved? BH is more concerned about OC having healthy lifestyle with all of us than he is about A re-starting.

A "healthy" lifestyle is the last thing the OC will have if you have contact with the OM. In order for your marriage to recover, you both need to avoid him. It is in the best interest of the child for you and your H to have a healthy, secure, intact marriage. You won't have that if there is contact with the OM. Your H will experience perpetual resentment and your feelings for the OM will be perpetually triggered.

Your H needs to understand that he needs to put his marriage FIRST. That is in the best of the child. If you have any problems selling this, ask him to call Dr Harley. Whatever you do, wanthealing, don't agree to any contact. That is not even something that is subject to POJA because it is dangerous to your marriage.

Many people are under the illusion that parents need to be in contact to raise a child, but nothing could be further from the truth. It is more often the OPPOSITE. Being in contact with a parent after a divorce or a situation like this makes a parent less able to parent effectively. You will both be better parents if there is NO contact.

"""""BH is more concerned about OC having healthy lifestyle with all of us than he is about A re-starting."""""

i understand his attitude. he has found his self esteem, is starting to find or has found trust in you and is now concerned for the well being of your little one

does your court order give the om over nights right from the get-go?

It is really important that they both understand this is a very unhealthy, dangerous attitude that will harm them if they act on it. Hopefully, that is what you are trying to convey, pops. Her H, of course, should not trust her and there is nothing to "esteem" about making marriage wrecking decisions. His self esteem will suffer if he is exposed to the OM because he will be continually triggered.

While concern for the OC is important, that can't be done at the expense of the marriage. It is in the child's best interest for them to have a secure, safe marriage and contact with the OM threatens that. As Harley suggests, all contact should be done through an intermediary for this reason.

wanthealing, I would show your H these articles by Dr Harley and even have him contact Dr Harley directly, if need be. You will be endangering your marriage if you have contact with the OM:

here


In other words, protect your marriage at all costs. That is in the best interest of your OC. Your H probably doesn't understand how damaging direct contact would be so you might need to make sure he DOES.

want another thing i wanted to suggest.

is that the intermediary (whoever that ends up being) needs to make sure that if oc cries and doesn't want to go for visits that om canNOT take that personal. it is just a small childs insecurity with someone new.

this was the case with both sides of visitation that i have been on.

with my oldest boy he would cry and not want to leave mom. i never got angry with him. instead i made it a point to do something immediately after picking him up that would take those apprehensions away. mc donalds, park, playground, visit nearby cousin, etc

with our oc. om would get angry at her if she cried and it took her much longer to get used to those transfers

again i am hoping that with your child being so young this will help with these transitions

How in the world do you control OM?

Given an average OM's likely maturity level, this seems like a lot to ask.

I don't believe it's possible to have that level of influence on the other parent of your child if you're not married to them, and I believe that it can be damaging to even try. In regular divorce situations I've seen many a divorced wife or husband try to force their former spouse to be a good parent, never to good effect.

Impossible.
Asking that the IM attempt to control/manage OM's emotional reaction ???
What?

i didn't say they could control om.

but they can certainly try explaining that a crying oc is not and should not be taken personally by them

I really do understand your good intentions.
I wonder if you really do understand that if a baby-daddy sees his child crying and NOT wanting to go with him, it probably triggers a whole boat load of emotions. Guilt might be among the emotions. Sadness. Resentment. Regret. Whatever he feels, his feelings are legitimate. The OC's feelings are legitimate, and so are OM's feelings.

And you did say: "om canNOT take that personal" .... To me, this says you want to manage OM's emotional response to the fact that he is not living with his bio child who cries when she sees him.

The idea of "explaining" his own child to OM is not likely to be received as intending to help HIM, but to manage him. It says: "We know & understand your child's emotional status, and you do not." (Edit to add ..... this is probably TRUE ! Which the OM may very well "take personal".)

I am sure you mean well.

yes pep i do understand what emotions a crying baby might cause. i lived it 35 years ago

and there is no telling what this om may feel. since he did persue this i doubt guilt is one of them

what i do know is that when our little one finally told us that om was yelling at her for crying i had that same discussion with him on his next pick-up.

no he didn't like it. went to the "she's my daughter".

but he did change and stop yelling at her on pickups.

it also made the oc feel much more secure knowing that someone would stand up for her

2 reasons for my point were 1-it will be quite some time before oc can relate back to mom and dad anything that is bothering her and 2-since om has never spent any time at all with oc, are

that maybe a little "preventive maintanence" (so to speak) from the outset could go a long way as long as it is presented in the right manor.

meaning as a simple informative statement. not a demand of him


and your 11th comandment is a classic

I think seeing the trauma this child feels will elicit guilt. [and should] He has not been exposed to that yet. Nor do I think he should be made to feel better about what he has done here. Seeing the reality might wake him up a bit. But telling him not to take it personally is to encourage him to ignore the consequences of his legal action, which is not a good idea. He very much should take it personally, because it is personal.

want,

all i am trying to do is forewarn you of some possible impending hard times ahead. that's why it would be best if your fil will be the intermediary. it would remove your h from those types

i have lived thru this 35 year ago as an every other weekend father (mid weeks were not heard of or considered at that time)trying to see his son and again 8 year ago as a bh handling the intermediary role with our little girl

i can tell you stories for a month from my own personal experiences of being on both sides of the fence of situations that may arise

can you control om? no. sorry if anyone thought that was implied

all i am saying is that your intermediary can "try" and explain and hopefully get om to feel a tiny bit of empathy

that's also why it would be best if your fil will be the intermediary. it would remove your h from those types of conversations

Thanks for all of the advice. I read this aloud to BH and we're going to try to keep as limited interaction with OM as possible. I won't be involved at all, but BH said he wants to watch OM interact with OC and see how it goes. We're still weeks away from establishing any kind of visitation, so maybe we'll get on-board with FIL before it starts and won't need to worry about it. We still have time to figure it out. I just hope we can get exposure done as soon as possible so that we know what options are open afterwards.

Did I mention how NERVOUS I am about exposure to everyone? :{

"""Did I mention how NERVOUS I am about exposure to everyone?"""

Understandable

My take is with your H standing beside you assuring them that the 2 of you are going to work thru this you will be pleasantly surprised by the support and compassion you will recieve from the family

Fullhouse felt exactly like you do. She wanted to stay as far away from my family as possible.

When the family heard that we were working toward rebuilding the marriage and saw how I was with oc they were supportive from the start.

I will keep you and your family in my prayers

Thanks, Pops!