I got a call from the adoptive mother of my OC (Daughter 14) and she wants to see us. She wanted to see us next week, but a trip like this requires a lot of planning and the kids are in school.

I got a picture of her and she is so beautiful, mostly looks like her mom and not much of POSOM.

I can't really write much else about how I feel, as I am all over the place. Anything I write here will probably not be applicable from one hour to the next for awhile.

I am so glad the POSOM didnt get my FWW to have a abortion.

Did I mention shes beautiful?

Will post more later.

Wow!

RMX,

This had to happen, and this is a good age for it to happen, although any age is better than never, I didn't get to reunite until I was about 35.

God Bless
Gamma

Poor child. I hope her life has been good.

SA, I don't understand your post. Can you elaborate?

Thanks in advance

How nerve wracking! I hope you have a wonderful time getting to know each other

OK, here is what I know so far.

We call the adoptive mother just mother, and I will refer to her as simply mother, we dont use the word "adoptive" in front. Just our preference, not knocking anyone who does it differently.

We've told the mother that we have a "no-contact" in place with the POSOM. We don't want to open the door to contact for any reason, he has been out of our lives for several years and we want to keep it that way.

We (FWW and I) have left it up to the her mom as to whether or not to tell OC/DD about her genetic father, and the mother is leaning towards
NOT telling her.

If OC isn't told about POSOM, I will struggle with being a liar, because when the question "Why did you give me up" is asked, the reasons will be different than what they actually are.

Vets... I have reservations about lieing to her, it feels wrong.

It just feels wrong to lie to someone that I have watched and grown attached to for so long.

Your comments (even negative) are appreciated.

I get a knot in the pit of my stomach any time someone says they're going to lie... She will eventually find out the truth and blame you for hiding it from her. Then you'll be the bad guy and POSOM will be the good guy. Not a good position to be in IMHO.

I say, tell her now. It's her decision whether she develops a relationship with her Bio dad. Just make sure the boundaries are set so that she doesn't tell you anything about him.

The truth will come out.
My aunt and uncle didn't know the truths until medical conditions in their 40s required blood work.
Then they learned they had been lied to about their real father!

Harley's advice is to have no contact with the child though.

In my house, the "REAL FATHER"and the "REAL MOTHER" are the ones who changed diapers, tended to boo-boos, disciplined, educated, comforted, etc etc etc. But, I admit a strong bias.

Pep, we agree 100%

RMX,

If OC isn't told about POSOM, I will struggle with being a liar, because when the question "Why did you give me up" is asked, the reasons will be different than what they actually are.

Vets... I have reservations about lieing to her, it feels wrong.

If there is a single lesson to MBs I think it would be DON'T LIE, if only that rule was followed most of the affairs couldn't have happened, your gut is correct.

There is a real issue here in that you are not the OC bio father, and should OM die before his bio OC gets to see OM there may be a lifetime of resentment.

I did not get to see my biological Mother because the communication was blocked and lies were maintained, it's bitter to have no contact except for a grave stone.

God Bless
Gamma

It is up to her mom, not you and FWW to decide to tell her the truth. Until that time you need a response that is not a lie but leaves the decision up to the person who gets to decide what and when to tell the child.

Sending hugs as I know the emotions this must be stirring like a hurricane in you.

Well ff, what would you say, my story is almost the same as every other ww with a OC. I want this to be a happy reunion. I want her to trust me.

"Your mom thought it best that fww and I not mention posom"?

Poor child? What is poor about this child?

Come on - she must have been told something already.

She knows that her bio mother gave her up for adoption. She has asked to see bio mother and you will be there too - so she knows that her bio mother is married. She must know that you (the married couple) have a son older than her and some younger children.

She must have asked about bio father before now. Why wouldn't her mother have told her that her bio parents had an affair and her bio mother gave her up for adoption? How has the mother managed to tell her about you, her bio mother and her husband, to the point of arranging this meeting, and yet not answered questions about who her bio father was, and what were the circumstances of her being born?

Surely the daughter is not going to ask you before she has ever asked her mother about him?

You need to tell her the same thing her mother tells her when she asks. Surely her mother doesn't lie to her?

Surely you've discussed this with her mother?

This is not RMX and his wife's problem to solve.

RMX, do not begin this journey with a lie in your pocket. Tell the truth; for two reasons: it's the right thing to do, number one. Number two: OC may well eventually find out the truth on her own. THEN what? How do you explain your lie? Just tell the truth and sleep soundly at night.

I am adopted. I won't get into the whole thing unless you would like to hear my whole story, but I was not the product of an extramarital affair. However, speaking as an adopted child from whom some of the truth of my reality was hidden: please, PLEASE tell her the truth. She is desperate to know who she is and the terms of her genesis.

Please tell her the truth.

??? I totally disagree. Completely. Totally.

Did I say totally?

Yes. This. Don't be that person who got in line to lie to her 'for her own (read: THEIR) good.

The OC is mixed race, that's why anxiety is flaring up, I can get a tan, but I will never pass for a Latino, unless I'm from Mexico City D.F. FWW and I are white.

I need to contact OCs mom and ask questions, and the OC isn't poor she's spoiled and cherished by her large loving family. She's been places like Disney world, that I'm sure my COM are going to be envious. She lost her father to adultery and then lost him to cancer.

Not sure if her recent loss and the new stepdad are a factor in the timing.

Do you mean her adoptive father?

How did she lose him to adultery, if so?

Do you mean her bio father? if so, how did she "lose" him? He didn't raise her. Some good man did - she had a father.

I'm very unsure about what you mean here.

Pep, you're absolutely right. My parents never ceased being my parents when I found my biological parents. And they will always be my "Mom" and "Dad" (may they rest in peace )

There is an additional layer of family when an adopted kid finds their biological family. For better or worse, hopefully for better!

When I found my sibs online, we met at a halfway point in our state (they live about an hour and a half away from me). They were afraid that I was a toothless welfare recipient who was looking for money. I was afraid that THEY were toothless welfare recipients who would ask ME for money, LOL. We laugh about that now.

But there is nothing that my bio parents could do that could take anything away from my REAL parents, may they rest in peace.

What a fantastic journey it has been - my 'extra' family has been a joy.

RMX,

Given the losses in her life lately just tell her the full truth. On top of the obviousness of the lie that you are her bio-father.

God Bless
Gamma

She was adopted by.a married couple, the adoptive father ran off with another woman, then he got cancer and died alone.

And that's okay. You're not trying to pass as something you're not (unless you're planning on lying, which I've already posted about.) Please embrace this as a positive thing!

I will use adoptive father and.mother on here to prevent confusion on the board. I call the biodad POSOM

I am sorry to hear that.

Are you saying that the child thinks or presumes that you are her bio father?

I'm very confused about why she is unaware of the fact that her bio father is someone else, and that is why she was adopted.

"FBH 34 me,FWW 34,
DS 14, OC-D 12 (given up for adoption), DS-8, DD-5"

Are you saying that OC believes that you and your wife kept child no.1, DS 14, then had child no.2 - her - adopted - then had children numbers 3 and 4, which you kept?

That makes no sense. Surely she knows that you are not her bio father.

My call? Your COM will NOT be envious. They've had the stability of your marriage with their mom. OC hasn't had that. That isn't going to be lost on them (maybe you don't realize how important your marriage with their mom is to them? Money, trips to DisneyLand...none of that compares to a healthy, intact family), You're worrying about things needlessly, I think. I think you're speculating over possible issues that may never happen.

Let this play out, RMX. Don't worry about things that haven't happened yet.

Her mother surely wouldn't have lied to her or let her think you are her bio father. Additionally, she surely isn't planning to go through with a meeting knowing that the truth will come out, then or later. She must know that, if the issue of the child's origins are being explored now, then they must be explored truthfully. What is the point of helping the child to discover her origins, only to lie about them?

She wouldn't be open enough about the adoption to help her child find her bio mother as she is doing, and then delude her into thinking you are her bio father.

None of that makes any sense. I think you must be mistaken about what this child has been told.

I have not spoken with OC.directly.on this subject, we will see what happens, I just emailed her and her mom, family pictures to her moms cell phone. She doesn't know what we look like, until tonight.

I would not lie nor cooperate in others lying to this child. Eventually she will want to know why she was the child given up for adoption. She has the right to know the truth about her genetics.

Good luck.

PS to add:

There is no emergency crisis going on here.
Let things develop and evolve at a leisurely pace.
Do not create a crisis where none exists. If you think the OC is not developmentally or emotionally ready for a ton of information, withholding what you deem necessary seems like a good thing to me.
Develop a relationship before you flood the room with details OC may not be prepared to handle.

Having said that, it is my opinion that OC will ask questions when she is ready to hear the truth. Trust OC to ask the questions on her timeline.

EXACTLY

Does the OC know who her bio dad is?

Has OC had any contact with the bio dad?

There is no way to hide the truth. So just tell the truth. Remember once you lie to this OC you will have broken her blind trust that she has for you and WW/bio mom.

That trust will never be restored.

I would defer to mom on this. Being honest enough if asked directly you have to tell her you are not her bio dad. As someone else pointed out, she MUST know that much? I meant it is not up to you and FWW to tell her WHO the bio dad is.

Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I meant it is not up to RMX and his FWW to tell OC WHO POSOM is. That is mom's job to decide if she should know who he is. Of course they should not lie to OC about RMX being bio dad.

Thanks for clarifying, ff! I was a little confused there, for a minute - I usually agree 100% with all of your posts and this one threw me for a bit of a loop You are correct, IMO. RMX and his wife can own their role in OC's origins. That's really all they do have ownership of. OC's mother should call the shots regarding POSOM, and RMX and his wife should respect that.

Gosh darnit, my whole post is gone.....ill try later from a actual computer and.not a phone

RMX, I have been reading your history. It seems you kept OC for a while and then decided to have her adopted later on. Could you tell us how old she was when she adopted, and why you decided to do that after having kept her at first?

Also, one of your posts states it was an open adoption, and that you spoke with her on the phone, and received pictures, as part of that arrangement. You were described to her as Aunt and Uncle. Is that how it has been all these years? When was she told that your wife was her mother? How old is she now?

Have you ever met her since the adoption?

It seems like I've remembered alot of stuff that I have forgotten until you asked that question.

We never actually had her with us. When W was in labor, she had contacted the couple and they drove 13-15 hours from Mississippi. I was not present for the actual 3am birth because I didn't want to be there, and I also had our son with me. I regret that, I could have made plans for someone to watch DS but I didn't. We got to spend some time with them and the newborn OC because we had to sign papers with the adoption agency.


She is 14 now and she was 13 when she found out, and its a open adoption with alot of boundaries to avoid stepping on her toes, and yes we were known as aunt and uncle all these years. The mother would send us pictures, but when we offered to respond with pictures of our own, she politely declined. OC even gave us her cell# but her mother politely asked us to lose the # when she overheard OC giving it out.
We always do our best to live by OC's mothers boundaries.

You would think she'd be suspicious that these people that shes never met, are sending her presents for her birthday and XMAS???

Once she found out my W was her mom, she was very interested in talking to our youngest child who is a 7 yr old DD. She did not ask us any of the questions I expect are going to be asked soon.

No, We have not met her in person. The only thing I can think of writing right now, is that the mother has told me that OC tells people she has two brothers and a sister.

This is bringing up alot of emotions that I thought I would not have. I am ashamed to admit this, but the thought of POSOM ever having anything to do with her really makes me protective. ... or jealous... or possessive? or I am just petty.

Actually I want her to look me in the eye and tell me she doesn't need to ever meet POSOM because I am a good person.

or lie and just tell me she thinks I am a good person...who happens to chain smoke when he is nervous

There is a user on here that I would love to post on my thread.
I cannot remember her name .... I remember a BW whose husband had TWO OC's with POSOW and she and her husband got full custody of the OCs? ...anyone remember her?

Was POSOM ever told about OC? You mentioned that adoption papers were signed, but by whom? You (as the presumed father) and FWW? If not you and FWW, then by POSOM and FWW?

She may talk about having siblings because your FWW has other children (with you). Legally, they are not her siblings but by blood (your FWW's), they are her half-siblings.

What I see as sad is that her birth father (POSOM) and her adoptive father (also a POSOM) both abandoned this child, and for whatever reason, you did not choose or didnt have the choice to adopt her at the time of her birth. I am not condemning YOU in any way for that. You were put into a bad situation and have lived with choices made long ago. It's apparent that you care about this child regardless of her origins.

You were relegated to "uncle" status when your FWW chose to be relegated to "aunt" status by adopting her out to an unrelated couple in an "open adoption." Where was birth POSOM when all of this went down?

I think you're thinking of Delean? Wasn't she the one who more or less raised/is raising her husband's two OC (with much love) while POSOW remains still in the picture? Her situation is different because the children have always known the truth. Your FWW's child has not known the truth until now (at least about her birth mother as far as we know).

Having said all of this, your role now, even though you care about this child, is one of husband to her birth mother. Her mom (the woman who raised her) has now told her the truth about FWW. The missing piece of information is what has she been told about her birth father?

What she is told about her birth father is her mom's decision. She was given that right when your FWW signed away her rights to the OC. If she has been led to believe that you are her birth father, then I would think you and your FWW should discuss it with her mom and make it clear that you have no desire to perpetuate the lie.

The only heart at risk here is OC. The adults in her life have known the truth all along (assuming POSOM knew).

My only first-hand experience with this is watching my husband live in torture knowing his whole life that he was adopted because his birth mom and father's rights were taken away by the state (and for good reason as we know now). So, take my opinion knowing through what lense I look through.

His adoptive parents (who meant well) turned out to have bitten off more than they could chew by adopting my husband along with his brother and sister. They gave him a good upbringing by all outward appearance, but without any love. His torture came from WANTING the love of his birth AND adoptive parents and getting none from either.

He found his birth mom at the age of 25 (under protest by his adoptive parents) and regretted it because she never owned up to her role in the destruction of his birth family. She wasn't/isn't capable of a mother's love (except in a sick twisted way). His life would have been completely different if the parents in his life had loved him.

I feel bad for your OC but her truth is up to her mom to reveal IMO.

I think you're talking about Dealan-de?

Here. Dealan-de's "My Story"

We signed docs, w.and I, lawyers contacted posom for us to surrender his, I think , think, that he either signed his rights away or lost them by not contesting.

This OC is coming for the truth and an added connection.

This OC is not stupid. She wants to talk to your younger COM because she is trying to fit the missing parts to her life story.

This OC needing the truth does not mean she wants to abandon her adoptive mom.

Knowing the truth is a valid and important need. We all here should know that finding out the truth is needed to move on with one's life.

There is no justification to trickle truth this OC.

All the adults agreed to an open adoption.

Because the adopt mom wants to lie to the OC is not a binding decision for you and your WW to tell lies.

Whether by commission
or ommission
the mission
was to be a liar.

Android phone posom had to either sign the docs the lawyer sent him, or just not bother to respond and the state would step in and terminate his rights for him.

Still no phone call, but I have 7 tickets to fiesta Texas that I have 6 weeks to find or pay for.

If this turns out well, ill be the first mb poster to. Post a photo of all of us. On the photo thread

How does the saying go...."If wishes and buts were candies and nuts, we'd all have a fine Christmas"

This is a 13 year old girl. She won't likely be sympathetic in the least to your experience here. She's going to be focused on HER experience and how this effects her. Seeking out her bio-mom implies a search for her bio-dad too. It's not confirming or denying anyone is a "good person".

Really...she could be 23 or 33 years old and I wouldn't expect her to understand and by sympathetic towards you. You're just her bio-mom's husband. Her adoption story is about her.

Then again...children can be amazing sometimes and you could get lucky. My 13 year old daughter is sharp as a tack to nuance. Most of her friends...not so much.

In addition, perhaps a part of her is extremely interested in your youngest child because she wants to know what was special enough about her that you kept her while shipping her off for adoption. Without all the facts...that could be PART of the take away message.

Good luck,
Mr. W

You are right as usual Mr. W

Guys, I just want to say thankyou, you prolly don't read it enough on here.

I'm not leaving, just wanted to show some appreciation.

I also wanted to say...

In situations like yours was 13 years ago....I often recommend adoption as the very best outcome. This child got to grow up in a home free from all that conflict surrounding her conception and very presence. The fact you and your wife are still together and parenting your three bio-kids is a testament to how successful this was. I truly hope this 13 year old turns out to be an amazing girl such that you can be an example forever of how adoption is a great solution to this problem.

Dr. Harley is somewhat unique in his views that marriage is more important than bio-children. I've suggested adoption as a viable solution at other forums and been roundly chastised as being insensitive. Usually I find myself recommending it when it's the "other woman" who is pregnant and giving up the baby for adoption (and her connection to her married man) is the last thing she wants so instead she attacks my best recommendation as me telling her she's unfit to parent the baby (which she usually is...by reason of her choice to permit a married man to impregnate her but that's beside the point). Most people think it's all about the baby and the baby didn't do anything wrong...blah, blah, blah. However, it's the baby that has to grow up facing the consequences of his/her conception. Adoption, IMO, IS truly all about the baby best interests.

Anyway...I think you did the right thing and I hope doing the right thing pays off for you, your wife, your kids and this "other child" (and her adoptive parents).

Mr. W

p.s. - This "open adoption" issue might be creating a problem though for you, the betrayed husband. Look at the how much difficulty you are having with this? You may have been better off with a closed adoption where this girl might not have come around until she was at least an adult and able to maybe grasp the complexities involved and YOU would have been further down the road into your recovery. This is making things fresh for you....and YOU MATTER TOO. Are you sharing your feelings with your wife???? Instead of the 13 year old comforting you...perhaps your wife can.

p.p.s. - Disclaimer...I have no personal experience with adoption OR an "Other Child" experience other than what I've read on forums for the last 8 or so years. The opinions expressed are just my personal opinions.

I am sharing my feelings with my wife, but there is a huggeee communication gap between us and OC. We've just spoken to the mom directly since this all has happened.

W and I are letting them make the next phone call after the pictures were sent to her (OC) moms email.

And (OC) shes 14 now. (15 in august)

If I sound needy, I am sorry.

OK, I have an opinion.
Shocking, right?

This thread is filled with (mostly) personal opinion and personal experience with very little MB concepts. My opinion holds the same weight as everyone else's.

Saying that ..... From personal experience:

Our son was nearly 4 when we got him. Obviously he knew he was adopted. His sister (same birth mom) came 6 months later as an infant. So, obviously he knew she was adopted. I cannot recall exactly how/when we told DD she was adopted. I think it came up in some sort of bedtime reading situation. It was no big deal. She really had only a passing interest. Her best friend was more important to her.

When to tell the kids the 'gory details' of their bio parents?
Who were they?
What were they like?
Why did she have so many kids?
Where are all our siblings?
What happened to bio parents?
I am so happy that we waited until THEY ASKED the specific questions. I waited until they were ready. I did not just unload on two innocent children for the sake of honesty. I considered their developmental level and their state of mind first.

It took ME a long time to work through my anger about their birth histories. If I had attempted to share their story with the kids while I was still angry, it would not have gone well.
I had to find some peace and generosity for the bio parents. I had to find a way not to 'paint' anyone a villain, but to simply deliver the facts.
"This happened." "This is what I know." "This is what I do not know." "This is what I *guess* happened."

But, by the time we were having this discussion, we had a solid relationship.

Despite our care and caution, the results of our son hearing the great ugly truth about bio mom was devastating for him. Not for us, for him. He carried rage towards her for a long time. Since he could not punish her, he punished us.

Regarding their 7 siblings (and half siblings) of the bio mom (she had 9 kids and kept none) .... Both kids have on-and-off expressed a curiosity to meet them. But, not a strong desire. Their whereabouts are protected, but I feel pretty sure a PI could discover the majority of them. If it becomes important, I will pay for that service. However, I have warned both kids not to expect too much. Their 'lost' siblings grew up in some rough areas of Los Angeles. They definitely did not lead parallel lives.

It's still playing out. Our son is 26. Our daughter is 23.
They are very focused on their own lives, and the back story is not as important as one may think.
At least, not yet.

Could your wife be struggling with this all as well? Could she be harboring resentment towards you for having to give up this child in the first place?

How was that decision made so many years ago...long before any knowledge of Dr. Harley and MB....was it POJA'ed, so to speak???


If you really need to get with your wife on this one as both of you may need a lot of support as you go through this each with their own feelings, resentments, regrets, insecurities, etc.. Hopefully you'll both share with each other because as Pepperband pointed out...it's likely to be disappointing. [OC has parents...she likely just wants to see you and then go back to her own life].

I hope you have a good experience.

Remember...marriage before children.

Mr. W

p.s. - just thought of this...your own kids might have feelings, questions, expectations about this all too. Especially your little one that maybe didn't know about the OC at all as is young enough to question whether she could be shipped off too. Please keep talking about this and allow others to help you along this path as you may likely need to be more a rock for your entire family than getting bogged down in your own hurt, anger and insecurities.

Mr. W nailed it.

Your marriage comes first. Protect it.
Then, tend to the needs of your COM.
Blue = your area of influence


OC's parents will tend to her needs.
Red = not your circle of influence.

POSOM can tend to his needs, from a distance.
Grey = who gives a damn.

Well, no real updates, except that they booked a hotel at a resort far nicer than we've ever been to.

Wife is trying not to be intimidated by that, her/our house cleaning is continuing at a rapid pace to make sure its acceptable for the visit.

power washing all my oil spills in the driveway

RMX,

As pep advised only give information that is asked, don't offer any that isn't asked. Answer with age appropriate information that mom is okay with. I still think mom is the one that gets to decide what her child gets to hear ultimately.

"our" OC is now 8. We have had him for visitation since he was 4. Never once in the 4 years has he asked us why his mom and dad don't live together. Never once has he asked about where I fit into this picture. I think because his mom has 5 kids with 3 bio dads it is simply his "normal" to have this type of set up. Will it come up when he is older? Maybe but I/we don't get to control the "spin" his mom puts on the story so I prepare myself for questions that so far have not come.

Since your OC is adopted and a teenage girl I would suspect this is pretty normal for an adopted child to want to find their biological roots. I would be as honest as possible again without offering more than necessary. Maybe she just wants siblings? Who knows with children...especially teenage girls.

Have you and W talked about this much? What does she want? What do you want? What do your children know?

I find your story very confusing to the point where at times it makes no sense. The description of how this OC is being brought up is particularly contradictory. Why would her mother agree to an open adoption, and tell the child that she is adopted, and then tell her that her married parents gave her away but kept children numbers one, three and four? How does she expect to get away with such a puzzling story, and why is she expecting you to aide her in this deception?

Why would she put herself in the position of having to explain that child number one was kept, then the second child given away (WHY????) then the third and fourth children kept? If she has been telling the child that you are both her bio mother and father, married to each other with kids that you kept, how does she explain (or how did she plan to explain, when the question was asked) your having given only her away? It's not even as if you can explain that you were unmarried and poor when you had your first child and gave it away, then got married and had more children. She is child number two, not number one.

I ask again: why would a married couple keep child number one, then give away child number two, then keep three and four?

This does not make sense, and I can't understand why you haven't asked about this LONG before OC decided to pay you a visit. This is an open adoption. Wasn't the point all along that there would be no secrecy about her origins, right from birth? Isn't that the point of an open adoption?

Something else that does not make sense is the way you told this story when you first came to the board. You posted this:


My story, long one but it has a happy ending

In that, your first thread, you state that these events happened 8 years earlier. So you were writing this story 8 years after your wife got pregnant and had the baby, and you wrote that you had two DDs. That whole thread reads as if you kept the baby. That is why I said in an earlier post that you had kept her for a while.

What is this about OM tracking you down every couple of years?

What really happened?

Your absolutely right sugarcane it doesnt make sense , we got screwed, she OCmom changed the name of the game a few months after the papers were signed.

We went along with her OC's mom's decision to change her mind because theres nothing we could do about it and we wanted to make the best of things. We still got pictures and we still got to call on occasion.

Yeah, we were just a little pissed but the papers were signed, our rights were terminated.

OC was not told about her being adopted until one of her older cousins blabbed she was adopted about a year or two ago.

hope that cleans things up.

OM has a habit of attempting to contact my wife to make threats or get her to talk to him. He's violent, he has three other protective orders against him. He's been in jail a few times.


What really happened? Sugarcane, what are you getting at?

I'm sorry but it doesn't.

I find your posts really hard to make sense of, because you don't say things straightforwardly!

How did you get screwed?

How did she change the name of the game? What, in fact, was the name of the game? What did she change her mind about?

I didn't ask whether you were pissed. I asked what story the child was told about you and the reason her married "parents" gave her away and kept the others. Since she seems to be meeting you under the impression that you are her father, what has she been told about why her "mother and father" gave her away and kept the others?

I can't ask this question any more simply. What has she been told, and why?

She changed her mind on telling the OC that she was adopted!!!!

OC FOUND OUT FROM A RELATIVE.

We wanted a open adoption, that what we told all the prospective parents. They agreed, after the adoption, they changed their mind.

Thats how we got screwed.

See, here we go again. I asked a straightforward question and you have not answered it. I asked:

And your answer is

What I am getting at is that in 2006 you said "we have 2 DDs and 2 DSs" as if you had kept the baby. The whole thread was written, 8 years after the event, as if you kept your family together.

You only said she was adopted 2 years after being on MB.

I'm only asking whether you kept her for a while and then got her adopted later. If not, why did you write that way in your first thread - as if she was still with you?

Is that clear now?

No, we didn't keep her for awhile. I can understand the confusion because I didnt mention the OC. MEDC/MECD and TheRoad and I have disussed OC at length in other threads tho.

I've mentioned in several subsequent threads we gave her up for adoption.

Okay: You are getting exasperated with me.

The trouble is (for me reading this thread), that you have posted a very incomplete story here, and looking back on your threads, you have never told it clearly in a straight line. How is anyone supposed to know or understand what went on with the adoption if you never made it clear?

You never before explained why open adoption took the form of you having contact with the child, but under the conditions that she thought you were her aunt and uncle.

You never explained that her mother had been trying to hide the fact that she was adopted - she wasn't just waiting for questions to come up which never came, but she was positively trying to hide it. You never explained that the girl only found out a year ago, via another relative.

And you haven't explained why you haven't discussed with the mother your refusal to lie and say you are her father when you finally meet.

The child's mother presumably underwent scrutiny and training as part of the adoption process; one cannot adopt a child without a barrage of test, including those on attitudes and values, being run on the adoptive parents. If she agreed at one point to an open adoption, she must have had some education into the perspective that the child needs to know about her origins, and will find out about them one day, and that it is better to be open about these than to lie. Adoptive parents are encouraged to read story books that have an adoption storyline, and to look at baby photos and explain that the baby grew in another Mummy's tummy, and then she was given to the adoptive Mummy. Adoptive parents are encouraged to tell the truth in age-appropriate ways.

Now, I do understand that adoptive parents could just take the baby and not do any of this, but the puzzle for me has been that this adoptive mother did some of this. She allowed you to have much more contact than happens in most adoptions. You spoke to the child directly. You were allowed to send presents. She sent you pictures.

So, forgive me for not understanding the holes in the story, which are why she did those "open" things but misled the child about her "married parents" keeping children numbers 1, 3 and 4, and giving away number 2. And the other big gap in my understanding is why you have agreed to meet this child but haven't cleared any of this up with her mother.

Is she expecting yo to lie? if so, why? Why does the mother not just tell her about the affair, which will make the reason for the adoption understandable? What is she hoping to achieve by telling the girl that you are her father? This is completely inexplicable, and I can't see why you haven't asked about it.

Are you going to tell her in advance that you won't lie?

Wouldn't it be a good idea to clear all this up in advance and not have an ugly mess at, or after, the meeting?

I apologize for the confusion.

There any many subsequent threads where I discuss the adoption.

Delean-DE

Our kids (#1, #3, and #4) have always known about the OC, always, but it was not a two way street with OC's mom.

I do know that she was adopted. That much was always clear. What wasn't clear was why you said in your first post that "we have 2DD and 2DS" on a thread about your "happy ending" as if, 8 years later, you still had this girl living with you. That is where my confusion about WHEN she was adopted sprang from. I can lay this to rest now.

Do you have any answers to the questions in my last post? Why didn't you clear up the issue of parentage as soon as you agreed to see the child?

Have you cleared it up since you first posted this thread?

We haven't had a sit down heart-to-heart phone call at length with Oc's mom. We need to do that since we are both home tonight.

I don't know, thats why im going through alllll the possible scenarios, to lie or not, to tell the truth.

If the OC's mom says "lets play it be ear, that will probably frustrate the hell out of me"

And doesn't the OC's mom not think this smart 14 year old will wonder where 1/2 of her race comes from??

I mean, both you and your FWW are white and she's obvious 1/2 another race, correct?

The problem is Brain, is we don't know what exactly OC has been told about me/us.

We need to call OC's mom and find out.

She is 1/4 another race, POSOM was 1/2 latino

I don't understand how you could have ever contemplated going through with something as life-changing as meeting this child - who, at 14, is still very much a child - without having had a serious talk with her mother to establish what is going on in her life and what the grounds rules and expectations are for the meeting.

Some people involve social workers or other specialists to help them manage the meeting. It is a monumental event for your wife, the child and her adoptive mother. It could result in changes to the relationship between the child and her mother, for ever. It could upset your wife very deeply. It could have an effect on your marriage. I think that this is why the law usually gives the child the right to tracce its parents when it is 18. He or she needs a level of maturity to deal with the implications of the relationships and the decision to adopt.

Something does not feel right about the fact that this mother actively misled her child about your relationship to her, and about the existence of a bio father. I am also bothered that she did not introduce the knowledge that the girl had been adopted, herself, in age-appropriate ways when she was growing up. The risk that is always faced if the truth isn't told is that someone will do exactly what that cousin did and reveal the truth, and not necessarily in a loving and caring manner.

The mother risked that happening, and it happened, and she now wants to risk some other revelation occurring in a manner that is out of control. For example, one of your children could tell the girl that you are not her father.

This is all very worrying to me, and in your shoes I would want this cleared up to my satisfaction before there could be any meeting.

You haven't mentioned your wife very much in all this. How does she feel about meeting the girl? She, of course, will be meeting her as her bio mother. How does she feel about the child possibly seeing her as a "real" mother and wanting to be close to her?

Have you POJAd with your wife the issue of what the child should be told about you?

This, this right here is absolutely a good point.


My wife is on here, her thread is below this one in the forum index.

I might add that one of our fears is that the OC's mom changes her mind if we ask too many tough questions or ask her to make decisions.

Why "fear"?

It might not be a good idea for you to meet this 14 year-old child if the relationship has to be conducted via her mother. She, for understandable reasons, seems insecure about your role in the child's life.

If the mother is not happy to tell the whole truth about the child's background, it might be better to deal with this when she the girl is 18. Not so that you can rudely bypass her mother, but because everyone will have matured a bit by then.

Talking on FB to another old-timer, agrees with you sugarcane that a counselor needs to be consulted before the meeting.

"Some people involve social workers or other specialists to help them manage the meeting."

So your wife just cleared it up that OC14 believes you to be her birth dad and SugarCane's red flags were correct?

Do you know of someone who specializes in introducing adoptive children to their birth mothers?

RMX, I agree with Sugar. Your thread is a study in why honesty is always the way to go. OC's life has been clouded by lies, deception and obfuscation. This is unfair to her and everyone else involved. The problem with lying in this situation, apart from the fact that it is unfair to the person you're lying about, is that you have to remember what you said. AND you have to hope everyone else is on board with lying as well. That should have been clear to adoptive mom when a cousin revealed a portion of the truth to her. You can't control what other people are going to say.

You now find yourself t a point of having to determine whether or not it's a good idea to lie to another human about her origins. I can tell you from personal experience in the same kind of situation that lying will not serve anyone and may well be damaging to OC.

I would suggest that you have a heart-to-heart with adoptive mom and tell her that you will not lie to this child. If she insists upon keeping this fabrication intact, I would wait to meet the child until she is an adult and tell her the complete truth of her origins at that point.

I want to talk to OCs mom and ask her if she would.tell me exactly what OC.has been told, as well as.consult someone in her town like it has been suggested.by MBers here. I did not get a call back yet.

You definitely need to get the full story.

Guys, mission accomplished, I borrowed a lot of your posts for inspiration. Will post more later.

IMO, you don't need to pay a counselor to help you tell this child the truth. I do think a counselor may be necessary for her later on to help her come to terms with the fallout from being lied to for years. The chance is good that she is going to be very hurt and angry about that.

Looking forward to your update.

One of the problems I mentioned with your posting style is that I have found it hard to discover the full story of the adoption.

After she began posting again yesterday. I read your wife's links in her signature, where she tells her own story, and I seems that I have been puzzling over a misconception. From your thread here I got the idea that the mother wanted the child to be told that you were her bio father. I spent time on a number of posts asking why she would create such a mess when she knows that there is a risk that the truth could come out. The truth about the adoption came out in an uncontrolled way via a (what I presume is a child) cousin, which is undesirable to say the least, and there was a risk that the child would find out she would being lied to about her father as well, at some later date. How, I kept asking, were you to explain having one of your kids adopted and not the other three?

And then I read your wife's story and it seems that SHE asked the mother to tell the child you were its father. Why did neither of you give this information during this new round of posting?

I can fully understand why your wife did not want OM mentioned to the child. Indeed, if you as a couple had decided to keep the child, Dr Harley would have supported you in saying nothing to anybody about its origins, if it could be passed off as yours.

But having had her adopted in an open adoption, it was obvious that there would have to be an explanation one day as to why that had happened. To create a story that you were her father when she already knew she was adopted risked creating a mess one day - especially given the slight difference in appearance caused by her Latino roots.

What's done is done, I suppose, with respect to the past, but I can't understand why you didn't make it clear that this was your wife's request to the adoptive mother all along.

It sounds as if there has been a successful outcome of your negotiations with her so I am glad to hear that. I look forward to your update.

After the next to last phone call, OCs mom agreed with the points y'all made on here. I think the part about lieing and her being a southern Baptist was a really good point she agreed with.

OC's mom sat OC down and explained that I am not the bio-dad. That she was conceived while W and I were separated. She didn't see the need to explain OM was the reason W and I separated.

She told OC that OM is not going to be contacted at this time, that when she turns 18 she can open that door.

OC's mom told me OC has all the pictures we sent to her mother, and that she copied her her mothers permission to her phone and she is showing them to her friends.

I have not spoken to OC directly since she made her wish known to visit, OC is off on some "mission" for the church, or "missionary", I had a hard time hearing.

Sugarcane, I can sympathize with you not understanding my posting style, please cut me some slack. K?

I think that is the very best approach. Good luck with the visit. I look forward to hearing all about it in the summer!

It is a lot simpler to live, if you don't have to remember what you lied about before isn't it?

Yes, there's that - but there are also the consequences that would have followed this particular lie.

How would that child have felt meeting you and your kids as a family, still believing that you were her father and she was the only one that was given away?

How would you have explained it? Wouldn't the false explanation have been even worse than the truth?

A whole web of lies would have had to have been created to sustain that one. It doesn't bear thinking about.

You've got it, friend.

I needed yall to just whack me to trust my gut feelings.

I have nothing new to report, except I am trying to get rid of the garbage in my backyard.

I want the house and yard to look nice before the visit.

Cleaning up a messy place is often very symbolic for cleaning up other situational messes.

Tomorrow is the day, ill post a update. will be on my best behavior and I will do my best to make a good first impression! Make that "we" will do our best!

Let me rephrase, she is flying in tomorrow, ill let yall know how it goes later in the day tomorrow evening.

I hope it all goes well.

Well, we got to meet at the JW Marriott, and it was so nerve stacking, the reunion was in the lobby. We recognized her and she recognized us, the kids were in school so we got to visit a little bit and we had lunch togethor with her adoptive mom and her adoptive grandma. It felt kind of reserved and nervous for everyone. I went and picked up the kids, and my daughter (7) immediately went hiding behind her mom when she met her older sister (OC). After a few hours the sisters were attached at the hip. The boys and i, not so much. I guess sisterhood is different than brothers we are meeting up again today. I'll post more later

She sounds like rogue from the.X-Men

So how did it go?

Wife and I met the OC, OC's mom and OC's grandmom at a resort hotel on 5/24. We met in the lobby, and neither party had any trouble recognizing the other. OC and wife hugged for what seemed like a few minutes and couldn't stop crying, there wasn't a dry eye in the immediate vicinity.

We all had lunch togethor and OC didn't ask alot of questions at first, it was a pleasant experience, the OC really REALLY resembles my wife, she barely has anything of her POSOM father in terms of looks.

The best I could muster was a little small talk as I was not sure what she thought of me, since she was already told I wasn't her bio-dad. OC wanted to meet her siblings so I left wife there with them and went and picked up alllll the kids from daycare, school, and home and we all drove to the hotel. (cont. in next post)

While I was out rounding up kids, wife and OC's told OC her bio-dads name, what he was like, and that she could ask OCs mom for more information when OCs mom feels its appropriate.

The kids and I arrive at the hotel and OC meets us there in the lobby.

OC met her little sister first, who being nervous, ran and hid behind her mom playfully. I don't know why, OCs little sister has been looking forward to that meeting with OC.

OC hugged her older brother next and then her little brother, and wife and I just stood there watching them interact. It was a moment we didn't want to interfere in so we just watched them size her up and she them. The rest of the day the four kids were inseparable, OC mostly seemed to be bonding to her older brother, they didn't go anywhere without some kind of body contact, whether it was shoulder to shoulder or hugs or holding hands.

We got to goto Chilis for dinner and the OC held her little sister half the meal, they both clearly enjoyed having a sister.

We got to know the OC's mom much more then ever. She is such a wonderful person, considering all that shes been through with her divorce, dealing with infidelity, her XH's passing away, and now her daughters issues (will elaborate later)

We go back to the hotel room where they are staying and the kids were chatting and have a grand old time. Alot of picture taking went on and alot of stories about the kids growing up.

We find out that OC likes boys (Oh boy...) and shes recovering nicely from a heart condition involving a valve not shaped right at birth)

Finally we leave and tell them we'll be back tomorrow to go swimming at the resorts waterpark, kids are glued togethor allll day long and everyone had a blast!

The best part is the next day and the day after that the OC started to talk to me, and I used my very best listening skills to make sure I had the best interaction possible, she would even tag along with my oldest and I on starbuck runs downstairs.

The best part is, I got to talk to OC, one on one and I got to ask alot of questions about her adoptive dad, their memories togethor, what she does for fun, and we finally started to connect. Now I didn't say it to her face directly, but she has ALOT of wife's mannerisms and facial expressions just like her siblings do.

We did have some problems with OC because as the time to go got closer, she got more and more emotional almost to full blown crying. I have to tell you it was wrenching emotionally because the siblings started crying too, and for the same reason.

I'll post more later

(((RMX))) It sounds like a wonderful time for all. How is everyone handling it now that she is gone?

Thanks for sharing and it sounds like it went really well.

Is the MB photo thread still active somewhere? I would love to post some pictures for y'all

Here. "The" MB Photo Thread

Sisters, DD (left) and OC (right)

I only use OC because I don't know if anyone uses DOC (Dear Other Child)