I changed my name back, cuz I seemed to be confusing everyone with TourGuideBarbie, and frankly I dont feel like TGB anymore! I dont want to be nice and cheerful all the time!

here's the update...I hope I can make it short, cuz i really hate typing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I had my surgery on July 8th. We found out OW is pregnant on July 5th. H continuted contact with OW excessivley until August 8th when I kicked him out!

H was VERY good to me during those 4 or 5 weeks he was at home! He was kind to me, affectionate, caring, etc...I am the one that was so angry cuz I KNEW he was in contact with her. He said it was because she was pregnant! laddy, da! WHATEVER! I assured him that if he continued to call her 10 x a day that I would be kicking him out after I was strong enough to make it on my own again!

On August 8th I picked up the luggage and he packed up and left. He didnt' want to leave at all...He begged to stay! I asked him to call her up and tell her it was over and he wouldn't do it...he wanted just a few more days! HA HA! A few more days of what! Fence sitting! I have given him almost 9 months!

so he leaves, going to HER house! He then goes to his little whole in the wall apt in OG, thi is where his office is! he has an air mattress there that he sleeps on in the back!

I immediately implemented Plan B, sort of! I tried. I got a new cel phone, but we saw each other at our counseling sessions! The first session he said he loved me and wanted to be with me! I was adament on getting a divorce. I just could not live this way any longer! I oculd not live with him having two woman in his life! He would always sy that I was number one and always will be! WHAT???

He begged me not to file for D. I kept my appt with the lawyer! I stoped calling him after a few days of getting over him. But he continued to call me! I developed an open wound infection on my right breast that led to TWO infections. I almost ended up in the hospital. That didn't phase him!

I was talking to a dear frined of mine who was giving me great advice. She told me to read FIM thread. I read it and thought...you know I can do this...I can go back into Plan A and do good at it! The friend asked me if I could call WH and invite him back home thru all the anger! I told her it would be HARD. I calle dhim that nihgt and invited him back home...holding back yeling at him. He was with HER when I called him. she was in the car. I ws on the other end telling him I thought it was best he come home. The kids missed him. he needed to be here. My dad is dying and I need him to help me out, etc... He is agreeing with me the entire time. I am sure she was fuming!

The next morning he called me and we talkled a long time. He asked me if I was serious about what I said, I said YES! I told him I would accept this OC and suport him in his decison! I didn't hear from him all day long. I called him about 4:00 and he said he was on his way home to "talk"...talk about what??? In other words, he wasn't moving home. he said it was hard to give her up! He said he didnt' think it would work between me and him cuz of the OC, etc...I told him to go to he!!

On Monday Aug 30th, I saw my lawyer, with every intention on filing for D. She said it would take overnight to file the paperwork. She said she would send a letter to WH explaining that his W has consulted with her and is filing for D. When I walked in there, I got sick. I just couldn't DO IT! All my intentions went flying out the window!

Sure, I would be taken care of financially...but why would I want to give up and let HER have what she wants. That afternoon I had to take the boys to the dentist. all three of them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> And hwere is my H during all this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> he called me and asked if he could take DS4 to soccer practice...sure, whatever. After the dentist I was going to take them to McD. he caled and asked if he could meet us over there! sure! go ahead. AFter we ate, I just left. No goodbyes or anything!

HE called me on the way home and said "HI! Can I come over for awhile"

I said "sure..come on over...it is your house"

he comes over, I go about my business as usual! HW, baths, etc...I finish watching my favorite show CSI Miami and at 10:00 I say "Well, I'm going to be" and I go off to bed...He comes in there and says "Well, can I take a shower"? I said "sure, it's your shower, go ahead" he takes a shower..then he says "can I sleep here tonight" WHOA! ok, so I say "sure, it's your bed, go ahead" I'm doing a great job of just aciting normal and not LBing!

I need to take a break! I forgot to mention the house he was looking at...that is the next thing!

Hey M23B, I have been wondering how you've been holding up.

I'm at a loss here, I don't know where you're headed anymore. You seem to waiver back and forth frequently.

The one thing I did want to address is this :
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can do this...I can go back into Plan A and do good at it! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">None of the plans have worked thus far. He has said time and time again he won't give her up. I think he's waiting around for you to accept that you're now part of his double life. He has you when he wants..hence coming over, showering, and sleeping there, and has her when he wants...in his car...at her house.

What is your next move ?

Try to step away from the situation for a minute...what message is this conveying to your sons ?

It's okay to grow up, get M, have an A, father children with the OW, and still be a part of everyone's lives.

What example is being set for your sons ?

Don't you ever worry if this won't effect the way they view M and relationships for the rest of their lives ?

They are seeing the results of no consequences even for the worst of offenses.

Let us know what you plan to do next.

Plan A has nothing to do with being a doormat; nor will being a doormat do anything to heal your marriage. Please try to remember that one fact.

<small>[ September 13, 2004, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: mthrrhbard ]</small>

OK, so before I went to the lawyer on the 30th, I had planned to going to see my dad in San Antonio that weekend! I hadn't heard from H, so I decided to go ahead and take the kids. he calls me at 2:45 Friday afternoon and says:

H: when are leaving for SAT?
me: in about 30 minutes!
WH: where are you now?
me: ppicking up the kids at school
WH: well, do you want me to watch them for you?
me: no that is ok, I am taking them with me!
WH: well, I had planned on watching them!
me: no, that is ok..i haven't heard from you in two days, and I have already told them they are going! They want to see Mima and pipa!
WH: Well, I did try to call you! ARe you sure you dont want me to watch them
me: WH, you haven't given me much choice but to take them with me...dont worry about it!

so I leave for SAT at about 3:30, get there about 6:00 or so...phone rings at 7:00...HOME is calling. I was in the middle of making my dad dinner...so I answer!

me: why are you calling from the house?
WH: I just wanted to come by to see how things are at the house...who is watching the dogs?
me: neighbor is
WH: I noticed you took the little dogs
me: yes, I always take the little dogs, you know that!
WH: well, I can watch the dogs...neighbor doesn't need to do that!
me: whatever!
WH: It's wierd being here in this huge house alone
me: really?
WH: yea!
me: UH HUH
WH: OH, guess what? I am buying some property...60 acres with a nice house on it?
me: oh that's nice...you and OW can have your nice place to raise your new family!
WH: NOOOO, I am buying it for me and you!
me: oh, ok, whatever you say WH...that's nice
WH: really...the house is kinda small, but we can build a HUGE house on the property some day!
me: that's nice!
WH: well, will you come and look at it with me!
me: NO, I dont think so!
WH: why not?
me: hmmmm? Well, I really am not in the mood to be buying a new house with your right now WH...especially since I have an apt with a lawyer on Monday to file for divorce!
WH: THat is not necessary!
me: what isn't necessary?
WH: to file for D
me: WH, you aren't giving me much of a choice here, are you?
WH: I will take care of everything!
me: uh huh! ok, whatever you say WH!
WH: Well, will you look at the property if I move back home?
me: sure, whatever you want WH! I need to go now and take care of my dad!
WH: how is your dad?
me: hmmm, well, he is very weak!
WH: are you talking to him?

What kind of question is THAT?

me: yes, I'm talking to him...I am sitting out on the patio with him right now...I need to go now and go make his dinner!
WH: ok, bye

so, he is now looking at property. Probably wants ME to look at it, so he can get my signiture on it...in Texas the spouse cannot buy any property, house or anything without the other spouses signiture on the papers! Also, if he buys it is community property! What a dork!

OK, so back to Monday...I already wrote about moNday above. tuesday we wake up! I knew I had to get him back into the house so I can implement my Plan A. So I can at least get him away from the OW...what a blow to her!

I asked him if he was going to move his stuff back home and he said, "yea, I will get some of it and bring it home today" I said "well, I will drive out there and bring it back for you"

haha! So we go out there together, all the while OW is calling him left and right, paging the crap out of him...We pick up ALL of his stuff and bring it back home! He is now home!

OW is pissed! he has to go to work that night! He doesn't call her at all! She pages him left and right that night! he calls her back and she lays into him saying "wel, you could have called me to let me know" I dont know what was said obviously! But I know she wasn't happy!

Two days later she calls him to let him know she had a sonogram and had some pictures of the baby. He goes by to see them. I didnt' know this until he told me about it. I was calm as the wind.

WH: oh, I saw pictues of the baby yesterday!
me: oh really!
WH: yea, she called to let me know she had a sonogram. wanted me to see the pictures.
me: oh, that's nice!
WH: it looks just like one of ours
me: ok...(thinking to myself, dont they all look like shrimps at 12 weeks)

I was completely calm about the whole thing. I didnt' badger him..I let him do the talking! That was about 8 days ago! I think! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> The difference in this time around is ME! I do not ask questions...I do not badger him about where he has been, what he has been doing! I do not call him 100 times a day to check up on him. I dont immediately attack him when he comes home with "did youtalk to her today" I let him do the talking! I let him tell me! It is HIM who needs to make me feel secure, and yes, he has! so far so good! I KNOW this OW will be apart of our lives forever! I have come to terms iwth that!

here is the thing that is getting me. he says he wants to be at the delivery!

WH: I want be there when the baby is born
me: oh really
WH: yea, is that bad?
me: hmmmm, i dont know...ok, I'll be there too!
WH: I dont think SHE will let you be there
me: she doesn't have a choice does she...I am the baby's step mommy!
WH: I dont think she sees it that way!
me: well, that is the way it is!
WH: Well, she is oging to have a C section and I figure I can stand at the top of her head while the baby comes out, hold it and then leave
me: hmmm, you seem to have this al figured out in your head dont you!
WH: yea, that is how if picture it!
me: that's nice
me: and where am I during all this?
WH: silence
me: you know what...we have 6 months to think about this...lets talk about this later, ok!

so, WH wants to be in the delivery room just like he was with his WIFE! just like a little fairy tale!
so that is where we are now! Mostly good days, some bad days! He has been tested for STD's...one of them came back with a slight neural...neither negative nor positive result! hmmmm! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Time to go workout now!

I am not at all being a doormat! My plan right now is to be civil, and no arguing with him. We are getting along very well! WE are in couseling and will work with the counselor with the OC/OW! he knows I will NOT accept this OW in my life! I will accept the OC, it is not the OC fault and yes, I can love the OC as one of my own! My H has told the OW that he is staying with me forever! He belongs iwthme! That he will pay the CS and visit the child WITH me. When the child is with H, she knows that I will be with OC too. I will be there to pick up drop off child!

He does not want to be with this OW! He wants to be with us. I know no one on here really lkes dad much, but I am the one who has to live with him. I do not ask that you slam dad, yes he deserves a few 2 x 4's, but he is no different than any other WS! he was caught deep in the fog as it is called! He is waking up and he is making it up to me!

The plan I am in, is working! I work closely with my counsler and she is helping tremendously! None of the other plans worked beofre cuz I didn't do them correctly! he knows I was serious about the D! It woke him up! He is waking up more and more each day! He is coming around! He is a good father now, and a good H! He is trying!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">M23B's WH said about OW's delivery of OC:
WH: Well, she is going to have a C section and I figure I can stand at the top of her head while the baby comes out, hold it and then leave
me: hmmm, you seem to have this al figured out in your head dont you!
WH: yea, that is how I picture it! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi M23B,

Please don't be offended, but I think your WH gets the award for the FOGGIEST WH in '2004. That is friggin INSANE!!!!

Good job, Mom. I know it's not easy to just respond with "uh huh, okay, sure, I see".

Keep following FiM's lead.

Love,
Jo

<small>[ September 13, 2004, 12:04 PM: Message edited by: Resilient ]</small>

MT#B,

No words of advice, just letting you know that I will be keeping you & your family in prayer.

Great Job Mom!! He's back...more or less.
Yes, he is still fence sitting, doesn't want to be with her, but hasn't stopped ALL contact.
Can you ask for no contact until the baby is here?

You are doing a SUPERB job of cutting out the LB's. This is the part I found was the toughest in Plan A. Now for the rest of it? How are you fulfilling his EN's...I know, last thing you want to do...

He seems like the kind of person that LOVES to have his ego stroked...compliment the heck out of him, giving him glowing admiration...

Any other Plan A things you can do?

One other part of Plan A that Harley left out, how are you going to take care of youirself through this? More visit to see youir Dad (next time without the kids?) Trips to the gym or to a weekly massage? Just time to be alone and rejuvenate?

I know you are getting some great advice on the Pg board, have you thought about the rules of contact? What boundaries you want to set for future contact with the OC and XOW???

MT3B, just wondering what is FIM? Post. It's not an easy road to hold but if you are serious and commited, which I think you are, you can do this. I'm praying for God to give you the strength to show your H that you are committed to making this work and develope a relationship w/ him that will be forever stronger. We are here for you and keep in touch.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

I wish you all would not be so tough on Mom.

She has changed alot. Mom and I talk everyday she has done a wonderful job with Dad. Like FIM she has begun to see alittle of the humor with foggy dad as opposed to the anger and LBing she used to do in her former plan A.

I believe she is doing a much better plan A than the first one she did before. This plan A is for HER not for Dad.
First Mom had to sit down and decide what she wanted first.
2nd- Mom had to decide if it was going to be possible for her to accept the OC (personally I don't believe this OC is Dads, but Mom is treating this as if it is Dads OC).
Mom did some real soul searching I heard her struggle daily with the options. I saw her reluctantly go get counsel with an attorney.
Then I point blank ask Mom, MOM WHAT DO YOU WANT?

Answer: She wants her husband and family to be back together, and that includes if there is an OC involved.

SO, Mom had Dad come back home. She has decided and has NOT asked Dad about the OW or the OC. When he does go through withdraw, she calls me and I try to calm her down. NOT hearing about THEM has helped her alot. And Mom has done a GREAT job of not love busting.

FIM thread has been a great guide for Mom, it is the humor that FIM has that was the key.
Mom is like me, We want it fixed and we want it fixed NOW. Also we want to understand everything and we like control. Mom see's that looking at the humor side and watching Dads behavior as a bad B movie (as FIM does) gives her that much needed control. It also helps not to care what the OW is doing, making her not an issue.

Mom has my support but she really could use other support as well.

POSITIVE support not the negative comments.

This woman does want to save her marriage. I think she has done a wonderful job of placing herself first (just talked to her she was shopping for new clothes, for her of course).
She also works out everyday, and has a couple of other projects going on, not to mention 3 high needs boys (young ones).

Mom is FAR from a doormat. She is in total control of her emotions and her situation.

I am proud of her, she just needs to keep up the good work !!

Mom - can you please call me at work? I walked out of the house today and forgot my daytimer. I need to talk to you!!

FIM = Faithinme, she posts on GQII

SOM,
I understand your concern over some of the negativity that comes across sometimes. I've mentioned a time or two myself when needed.

HOWEVER, you said

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has changed alot. Mom and I talk everyday she has done a wonderful job with Dad </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This statement made me SO angry. Mom has tried Plan A, maybe it's not the best someone else could do, but it was the best she could do. PERIOD. If she's trying someone else's Plan A, or a "revised" Plan A... can you guarantee her it will work ?

Three Plan B attempts have failed. FAILED. One more time...FAILED.... Plan B ..... the WS can come home to work on the M on the condition NC is in place...not just for an afternoon, a week, a month... consistently. Within the 1st week of him being home...he goes to see sonogram pictures ? Yes...I see how successful this is.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone, but I don't want MOM to accept the blame here. To see the "humor" in it now won't help her WHEN.... he flies back out the door to see OW. Do you think he's still seeing her ? Absolutely. He never DENIED seeing her, being with her, actually blamed M23B at one point for his being with her.

So the humor isn't going to HELP Mom..because she'll be less prepared EMOTIONALLY. OW isn't going anywhere. D23B has absolutely NO reason to give her up. PERIOD. He doesn't even get questioned about contact anymore.

I think for the situation for all concerned...I will try very hard to back out of offering advice or input to M23B. This WILL happen again. And I don't want to be on the side of the board telling her how sorry I am..that I never thought this would happen.

I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. I hope M23B lives a happy, fulfilling life. Personally I think she deserves a hell of a lot better than this.

Sorry again

Yeah, BiNJ, we all do.

Hey Mt3B - if your dc provider falls thru on the Cher thingy, you know my #!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm all for a night out right now.

Cher!!!!!

okay, is she stopping in Texas on tour? Went to see her about this time last year in Portland, OR--it was awesome.

You all would have fun!

Mom--do what you have to do for you--I know what you are going throughwith fence sitting etc. but they still won't get a D--I hate to think that mine may get to the point here in the near future where I do the whole D thing just because the other won't even though supposedly that is what they want.

Hang in there--I'm thinking of you.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>M23B's WH said about OW's delivery of OC:
WH: Well, she is going to have a C section and I figure I can stand at the top of her head while the baby comes out, hold it and then leave
me: hmmm, you seem to have this al figured out in your head dont you!
WH: yea, that is how I picture it! </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi M23B,

Well if he is going to stand at the top of her head, then you can stand on her face with your spiked heels. LOL!!!

He wants contact and wants your approval.

IMHO, he wants you to enable his A and even get you to do some of his dirty work for him.

Now I have met him only once but right now even the temptation of buying new property doesn't show any remorse or sincere repentance worthy of coming home.

He wants to buy his way and give you his cake, in fact he wants you to eat it with him. YUUCK!!!!

Is he still on the fence? It appears he and the OW have concocted up a plan. Let him prove otherwise.

JMHO,
L.

How about he having custody of the child and you adopting. That will get EOW out of the picture. Let him bring that up and watch her head pop right off her shoulders...but if doesn't work the spiked heels on her head during delivery would be fine...

Is he having ice cream with his cake? Next he'll be asking for whipped cream and a cherry too.

It's sad really. He wants to be both places and as much as he tries to rationalize that it will work, it won't. I don't think it's just she that's using this baby-he's doing it too.

What's the deal with STD results?

I think the idea of buying land is good but it's in the wrong location. It needs to be on the other side of the country. Far, far away from EOW.

Mom, you know best what your situation is. The added stress of your father's illness, 3 boys with challenges and your own medical issues with your surgery is taking it's toll. Don't let posters here stress you out more. Your working with a counselor who can better see the whole picture. This is a good place to vent and maybe see things in a different light. FIM's posts are a good place to be. Trust your instincts. Trust your counselor.

Remember we grow in the tough times and you're going through quite a storm. Stand firm and focus on your direction. You'll come out a stronger person and I pray with a stronger marriage.

Mom,

I only have a couple of quick things to say that I hope will be helpful.

Your instinct to pass on looking at or buying any property is dead on. My gut just lurched when I read that. He might be wanting to get you and the boys into a smaller, less expensive home, which would be easier on his pocketbook if/when your M doesn't work out and he starts throwing his socks on the floor at OWs. They might even be concocting this together.... I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this way, Orchid.

Second, on the STD results. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> What in the world? He's got a "maybe" on one of them? How and when does he get retested? Please do NOT have any SF with dad until he is definitely in the clear!

Please keep your head about you. I, like the others, am concerned about how this whole thing sounds. But I am glad that you seem to have found a sort of peace for yourself.

~ Snow

BetrayedINNJ

I disagree, Mom is not doing someone elses plan A
She doing a plan A that is helping her move FORWARD in HER life. She is doing a Plan A that feel "right" for her. She is doing a plan A that IS lifting Dad out of his fog.

The first Plan A she did was the Harley's Plan A
(by the book) She felt like a doormat doing it, she did not feel like SHE was in control and she constantly needed information. Like did you talk to her?, Did you see her, what did you do where did you go, how did you get there, Then WHY WHY WHY. with some LBing in between.
THIS DID NOT WORK FOR HER to save her marriage.
It made her madder and she through him out. She is terrible at plan B, plus there are extinuating circumstances that make it IMPOSSIBLE to do a MB Plan B.

This so called "someone elses Plan A"
is working for her and believe it or not Dad is seeing through the fog.
He has only been back home a short time, he is actually seeing things much more clearer.

As far as the comment about the US and the delivery. I think Dad was TRYING to get mom's reaction (remember she is not asking anymore).
Dad is not a baby person, He also has started
"putting down" the OW. You know, she has HUGE legs, her Behind is bigger than____ . She has horrible grammer, I can never see myself with her long term, etc.

YES BinNJ this plan A IS working. Mom is able to giggle at his silly comments, Mom is able NOT to take things so personally, then lash out with a LB. Mom is moving forward WITH her H and sons regardless of the claim of an OC.
Mom is on track. I am really sorry you feel there is ONLY one way to do plan A and if you mess it up too bad no more tries, somehow I just don't think that is what the Harley's had in mind. But then again, I am new here. what do I know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I don't know what to say... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I think I'm speechless.
To be that calm, cool and collected with all this
going on around you. I don't know how you can do it. But I do think you are doing the right things at the right moment. Definitely keep it up!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">she did not feel like SHE was in control and she constantly needed information </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, and how does "this plan" give her control ?

What is the desired result of "this plan"?

Not asking questions, accepting continued contact with the OW ?

Let me ask you...because I truly don't understand how recovery begins without NC.

To let M23B exhale, thinking her "plan" is working and the "FOG" is lifting could very well be setting her up for another heartache.

It's not M32B that's the issue here, it's D23B.

Have you ever really gone back and read his postings ?

He talks a good game. Let's just hope he casts this intrusive OW aside once and for all and gives M23B the decent chance she deserves.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am really sorry you feel there is ONLY one way to do plan A and if you mess it up too bad no more tries, somehow I just don't think that is what the Harley's had in mind </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So are you saying Mom failed at her Plan A ? I've read SAA, and although the Plans are not always clearly defined, I'm pretty positive NC is the first condition to be met.

I'm sorry. We just don't agree. And I hope to GOD I'm wrong..I hope 6 months from now I can stop in and say hey...SOM...I was SO wrong...I pray for that..in this case...I want to be.

Maybe look into getting a temp legal seperation order only on paper so that the Other woman doesnt get a lot of your Husbands money with a child support order your 3 boys will get the most and then what is left over can go to the OC.

Thats just somehting that may work you can ask your lawyer about it.
Maybe alimony as well.
in the long run you can use it if he does turn on you.

Hi M23B!

I have to say I believe that EVERYONE can successfully do a Plan A of their own sorts. What sounds good on "paper" may need to altered from person to person- couple to couple, as each relationship has dynamics/personalities/needs that differ. Not everything works for all involved, etc.

I think that M23B is doing what she has the strength to do- and doing what she is doing now TAKES SOOOOOO MUCH more strength than goind buck-wild with emotion and LBing, etc etc. I could NEVER on earth have the strength to kill them w/kindness and callous behavior of sorts. That takes control that I could not find. Hey,its been a short time and she isnt signing away her home for him! I think she is on full allert right now for his games.

If he does NOT agree to stay out of the delivery room by the time of delivery.. M2 PLEASE do not stay with him- thats when there just isnt enough Plan A in the world. Tha bad news is, that he should naturally FEEL he does not even need to be there or in contact..and he just wouldn't be. My H said he feels strange just being around her- unfamiliar w/her and would not even consider it w/her.... that is my hope, that her H will be clear enough soon,and do whats right cause thats how he feels, know what I mean?

Betrayed
I had a long post done last night when my one year old decided my laptop was thirsty <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

After a night to dry out I am back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

BinNJ your DH and Dad affairs were approx the same length. NOT when D-day occurred but till
now. Imagine if your DH got his OW pregnant.
You would be dealing with a totally different situation.

As far as the NC in PLAN A <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
I have read here for years, if every person here
tossed there WW/WH out for contact during plan A
the divorce board would be very busy, Don't you think? Off the top of my head Bob Pure/ FIM come to mind at the moment.

This was Dads first and only Affair.
FIM is dealing with at least 3 affairs
Dad wants the marriage to work, but has been "brainwashed" with fear by the OW"
"Your Wife will make your life hell forever"
"Mom will never love you the way I do"
"Mom can NEVER forgive you"
"you will forever be miserable"
To name just a few, not to mention the CONSTANT paging, calling, etc.

FIM's DH has already filed Divorce.
Dad does not want one.

Dad is not waffling anylonger. He know what he has to do and what he wants (MOM). He IS taking baby steps to get there, but the bottom line is HE IS MOVING in that direction.

THIS PLAN A is MOM's survival right now.
She has a wonderful sense of humor and is able to see the classic "fog sayings" that Dad spirts out once in awhile. She IS MOVING FORWARD and SHE is stronger, I THOUGHT THAT WAS PLAN A <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Betrayed you are not Dr. Harley, Nor am I. I think personally the golden rule should apply here.

You dont like Dad, I think Dad is a very intelligent, high energy guy, nice guy who got got up in a bad situation. Mom has decided to STAY with Dad and work through this situation.
That is the bottom line.

She needs support period

Hey Mom,

Hope to hear from you soon.
How did the infections finally turn out? No scars I hope...How is your NEW body?

I agree that something in writing is a GREAT idea so that the boys and you are taken care of.

Keep up the good work!! How do you do it...cut out the LB's...I still have problems with that?

StillHere - M23B's surgeries are da bomb diggety, if I do say so myself! I wanna tuck now! How do I get my ins. to pay for that?

Hey chica! Where are you??? Still at the ortho?

M23B, I would work on my marriage to what I felt is right. Don't worry about the Delv right now. Just work on making your M stronger and the best it can be. I've always said that Pa & PB rules do not apply to all. You change you and let God work on H. But him seeing that you are committed no matter what will help make a change. Not in a doormat kind of way but in you I am your wife and we made a vow and yes we fall sometimes but yes we can get up and make it better for all involved.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BinNJ your DH and Dad affairs were approx the same length. NOT when D-day occurred but till now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You&#8217;re right there, DDAY was within a few days of each other, but my FWH A was in progress for 6 months, my H was very emotionally attached to this woman, they spoke of M and having children together.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as the NC in PLAN A
I have read here for years, if every person here
tossed there WW/WH out for contact during plan A
the divorce board would be very busy, Don't you think? Off the top of my head Bob Pure/ FIM come to mind at the moment.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You&#8217;re right, but I never indicated NC should be intact during Plan A, but it is a condition of reconciliation AFTER PLAN B. There is absolutely no excuse, reason, or &#8220;baby step&#8221; involved with NC. It&#8217;s clean, plain and simple with the OW. You just do it NC. Period. It doesn&#8217;t mean&#8230;I&#8217;ll go over and look at sonogram pictures and tell you after the fact And if his intentions were TRUE AND RESPESTFUL of Mom, he wouldn&#8217;t have gone FIRST, and THEN told her. He should have called her, asked her opinion about it, but he EXCLUDED HER.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Dad wants the marriage to work, but has been "brainwashed" with fear by the OW" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">&#8211; This statement just doesn&#8217;t make sense, he either wants to work on the M or not, the OW has nothing at all to do with his desire or lack thereof to work on the M.

You keep missing my basic point, and it&#8217;s about NO CONTACT. The WS is never serious about working on the M while they are still having CONTACT with the OP. It is waffling back and forth while CONTACT is still being made.

THAT is my point. That is all I&#8217;m referring to.

If you can find ANYONE else that agrees it's okay for D23B to still have contact with OP, I'll retract my post, but he's still in contact, and THAT is the whole problem, it's always been the problem, and continues to be the problem.

Ok, this may bite me in the butt, but here goes. No contact w/ C with OC? How is that possible? I dont want to talk to the ow! I will and have but just really dont want to, she's not my friend and I am not hers. Less confortation. They have or are having a child together. No I dont agree w/ falling all over the ow everytime she goes to the doc app, or child goes to dr. But there is a child and IF you do contact w/the child there is going to be contact with the OP. I know OW call, but he tells me ! Thats the point. Is he hiding the fact, no he has to be honest. But by him being honest does mom throw a fit? Why tell? Forgiveness rather that permission thing there. I've made H confortable in talking with me about ow and oc. I proved to him he can be honest and I wont blow a gaslet every single time. And visa versa. Does he know when I am upset, YES! I tell him but it is talking about it and not shouting or yelling or calling names. Communication, thats what we are all working on, right? It makes your M better, stronger and more enjoyable. Like me being D and having a D , my H step D. Ok is it right for him to get mad when I talk to him? No we have a child and thats all we have to talk about. Yes I loved the man at one time, who's to say we're not talking about H or I could choose to sleep w/ him again? (NOT IN A MILLION YEARS) You just dont know and thats where you build your trust. My H went to the H and I was going to go and at the last min I backed out. WHY did he want to go, cause its HIS child and he had the need to be there and hold him. NOT HER. He was w/ me up until she was just about to have him and was there for awhile, held his son and left. And called me every so often to reassure me of why and what he was there for. I went shopping, and I was right across the street. Was the ow happy that I was going to be there, you know that one, but it didn't matter H wanted me there. I did let him down, but he understood after we spent time together talking. And even told me he wasn't going if I was not going to be at home for him afterwards. But it has to do w/ learning to be honest w/ each other. Making your M stronger and then you will find that the OW just dont matter anymore. I have realized I am more of a woman, mother, and wife than she will ever be. And I'm proving it everyday to someone that has become worthy of it! I may be all wrong and only time will tell, but this is the way that God has shown me to do this and its changed my life to get over it and go on with my life.
Just my 2 cents.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> Sunny D

SD,
The OC is 6 months off from being born. There is absolutely no reason in the world for contact to continue with OP in the meantime. It's not healthy for a M that's trying to GET stable. And what if the unthinkable happens and the baby turns out not to even BE D23B ?

Going over to share sonogram pictures is not necessary, and it leaves M23B out.

For anyone that does find a way to have contact with the OC, and it doesn't effect the M in any way...GREAT.

But for right now, NC has to be initiated. I don't understand why it's necessary for D23B to continue to have contact with the OW right now. His priority should be his wife and his boys. Period. He'll have enough to juggle once that baby IS born, but right now, he has a lot of work to do AT HOME.

OW should not be part of D23B's time right now. That's just my opinion. I think M23B deserves some time and effort, consistently. D23B should be jumping over himself to try to make up all the crap he's put her through.

Betrayed,

Mom never did a serious plan A. Unless you call the constant 5th degree, anxiety and love busting a good plan A??

As far as plan B, Mom set up for plan B BUT she never could do it. She could never not pick up Dads calls (callerID), they continued contact all along. So there really never was a Plan B.
Mom just was not ready for it, she never got herself to a comfortable point to be successful at it.

First she needs to do a solid plan A one that she feels comfortable in. She also wants her DH home with her. Mom wants her marriage. Her and Dad are getting along and working together for their family.

As far as the US picture, she works at the hospital were Dad see's patients. That hopefully will change, but it really can't right now. I checked with my DH he confirmed what dad
said about walking from that contract. It is just not advisable.

I did not want to get into an internet battle with you Betrayed. I was just trying to point out that Mom needs support, NOT a verbal spanking at every turn.
JMHO

YES!!! Stressed Out Mom. I agree wholeheartedly with your ENTIRE post. Support, questions, suggestions, but no more holding feet to the fire, it is not helping.

StressedoutMom - thank you for being a lighthouse to my new friend. She is more grateful than you know for your support. (((hugs))) We're all a team here, you know?

- Kimmy