Hi all. New user here. I did some searching but could not find this exact request....I would really like to hear from some women who did not have their emotional needs met, became disconnected from the H and worked through it and are happy or happier now than they were before. Maybe you had an emotional affair or even a sexual affair with someone else but somehow found your way back to your husband. My WW was involved in some type of affair and the day I busted her was INSTANTLY ice cold. All my fault, unhappy for years, yada yada. I don't want to go into the story in this forum. I will post my "Just found out" story in the correct forum and link it here once I do.

Maybe there are success stories out there at the end of long forums but I did not find any although I didn't read every posting in every forum. I did not see a specific forum for success stories. We are two months into this and occasionally I could use some encouragement and it would be nice to read some true success stories from the women who actually went through it. I think it would help ANY man understand what his wife is feeling.

Thanks,

Jim

Acutally, there are many stories of success here. Every WW, who was invlovled in an EA or a PA felt disconnected from their H. Every single one of them.Once the A has been exposed to the light of day, it is not fun anymore. At that point the WS, male or female, becomes angry and blames the BS.

Keep reading.
Read Surviving an Affair. Read all the aritcles on this sight. your story is the same as every other Betrayed Spouse here. Your W had an A which was fun and romantic and made her feel "special". But now the fun, and that "special" feeling has been exposed to the light of day, and looks like the monster that it really is. So she is mad. And lashes out at the closest person - you.

If you need to see a particalur set of threads - look at anything involving Mr and/or Mrs Wondering.

Ace has put together a Success Story thread and I will bump it up for you.

I am a FWW who completely checked out of my marriage prior to my A. My Story and also my DH's story are on page 8 of the thread. Ace graciously took the time to post Part 1 and 2 of my version and then my DH's (Docp) post is right after mine.

We have successfully rebuilt our marriage

I hope you find the thread helpful.

LC

also any post by Resonance, or KiwiJ, they too were WW who found love and a connection again with their husbands......

oh, and welcome by the way. If you stick around you will find many to help you....but I will say that you may need to post a few more details so we know what you need help with...

Also, Dr. H says that it takes 2yrs to recover from an affair. YOu are still early yet.....but from all the stories around here, it is worth it....

not2fun

Jim,

I wanted to add another thought to what I said yesterday. I was so disconnected in my marriage that at least a year prior to my A I opened a secret bank account and was setting myself up financially to leave my H.

By some divine intervention or whatever my DH started meeting my needs and I started to see him in a whole new light (this all happened before I confessed my A, which led to my confession). We knew nothing about MB at the time.

Now that we are meeting each others needs I can't imagine my life without my DH.

Familiarize yourself with Plan A and do your very best to meet your W's needs.

LC

I don't know your whole story. My NC began almost immediatley and I still walked around in the fog for awhile. It's been 5 months since our D-Day and I can tell you that things didn't really start to get clearer til around 3 months. Coming to MB has taught me so much. Who knew about the fog... I just thought I was loosing my mind! I disconnected from my husband so much that it literally felt like I was living two lives. And I convinced myself that they were somehow unrelated. I even disconnected from God, (because I knew I was wrong) and my children. But I am back now! "The fog has lifted." And there is no where else I'd rather be than at home with my DH and kiddos.

Our first MC session when the C asked why I thought I had an A, I burst into tears and started rambling about my husband not giving the kids a bath! Insane!

Jim, I'm probably not the poster you want to read about since my M did fail, but that was due to WstbxH's affair, not my unmet ENs. My top ENs went unmet throughout my M. When we were just dating, he was affectionate, he liked to socialize and he enjoyed many types of RC with me. Immediately after we were married, he stopped socializing, gradually became less affectionate to the point that he hadn't touched me anywhere other than the fun parts during SF in over a decade (i.e. hand holding or whatever), and spent virually all of his time in front of his computer or tv. So I was starved for affection, socialization and a recreational companion. I did struggle with it over the years - talked to then-DH about them and tried everything I could to convince him to at least make an effort. I didn't know about MB, so I made a lot of mistakes in how I approached these things. He just kept saying that's who he is and that's who I married and that's that. But I didn't have an affair in an attempt to solve this.

How I dealt? First off, I resigned myself to an affectionless marriage. I actually spent years crying over this but I did come to accept that this was my lot in life. Second, I invested in my own hobby, horseback riding. This fulfilled my other 2 ENs safely because over 95% of people into horses are women - many in the same boat as me. So I had a social group of women who were also recreational companions. I also invested more in my career and became quite successful. Honestly, as recently as 2 weeks before D-day I was reflecting on how fulfilling my life was.

So though my story didn't work out, it wasn't because my ENs weren't being met. It's quite possible that my personal investment in my career and my hobby contributed to my failure to meet his ENs, though he was also a workaholic and I was able to do most of that stuff when he wasn't home anyway.

Having said all this, now that my M is over, I will never, EVER accept an affectionless relationship again. I will also be very leary of first, second, third and even 12th impressions since I dated WstbxH for 3 years before we married and his personality changed.

I know I failed to meet my wifes emotional needs for years. I never knew about EN's. She met all of mine so I figured we were good. I accept blame for that. She strayed but will not admit to it. If you read many of the other postings, it is my story. "We're just friends, I haven't been happy for years" and the RAGE she showed toward me like I made her stray. She continues to insist it was a friendship but I have some physical proof that can't be ignored that it was SA. I have implemented PLAN A but if she will not even admit to it being an SA, will it work? Part of PLAN A is requiring NC which she claims is not necessary since she claims nothing happened (which is BS).

Jim,

She is following what is referred to as "the wayward script". IOW, she is saying typical things a wayward would say.

Have you exposed the A to anyone? If it's "just a friendship" then your W won't mind other people knowing, right? My guess is she would mind very much if you started telling people about her "friendship", which means it's not really, but we both already know that.

Your W wants to cake eat, don't let her. Show her your proof and expose the A. Exposure makes waywards very angry, but they get over the anger.


Plan A works, keep doing it. My DH unknowingly did a version of plan A and it changed my whole view of him. As for your W denying the A, she is in the fog. Let her see your proof then she can no longer deny.

Is the OM married? If so, expose to his W.

How did she meet him?

Read threads about exposure, you will find some of the advice helpful.

Post your story here on this thread, this forum has more traffic than Just Found Out and hopefully posters with more experience helping others will jump in and give you advice on what you need to do.

LC

What is your proof?????

This is a very short version of my story. If I type everything out, no one would read the whole thing (I have 25 pages in my daily log). To preface it, I was a bad husband and father. I was missing every emotional need of hers, not being a family leader, very selfish (taker), didn't listen, etc. I kow that does not justify an EA or SA but I do recognize my mistakes and I have been working on correcting them.

June 17 at 10:00 pm the phone rings. Caller ID shows a male neighbors name and a cell number. I answer. "CLICK". I go to W. She is watching TV. I say "why would OM call here and hang up". Her face went stone cold. She says "I don't know". 45 minutes later I get "we need to talk". Shes been unhappy, I wasnt there, yada yada, we all know the story. I ask her if she has been fooling around with him. She insists they are just friends. W was friends with OM's wife for years but they had not talked in 6 - 7 years. When I see OM, I am friendly with him. My W and his W had a falling out. Now OM and his wife are offically divorced as of last week. W said she ran into OM at a baseball field where our kids play, talked about his pending divorce and he just needed someone to talk to. They both hate his now ex-wife and misery loves company. I start digging. About 3 hours cell phone between them and over 1100 text messages over a three week period. I asked to see her phone. All texts to/from him were deleted but others remained (ie, no global deleting, just individual). Also, his name was in her phone book as the letter "A". When I asked, she first said she did that because she knew I'd get jealous. Two days later she said she did that so she wouldn't have to scroll down to send texts. (Hard to keep those lies straight, huh?) She admitted to an in person meeting once in a public place while his house was being shown and he had to take his dog out of the house so she went and met him at a park on her bike.

A week after D-Day she files for divorce. I ask for counseling. she says it is too late, been unhappy too long, etc, etc. Eventually she says she'll go so I can feel like I tried. The following 4-5 weeks were ugly. Lots of massive MB, mostly from me (i.e cheating wh*re, etc). It took me a while to get off that roller coaster but I have. We managed a week of no MB and started counseling. The divorce was officially withdrawn from the court 8/1/08. We are in counseling now.

As far as my "evidence" of SA. W and I were fooling around a few weeks prior to D-Day. There was male discharge present in her. I said nothing to her at the time but I have felt it enough times during past sessions over 17 years to know what it was. I remember specifically noticing it and thinking WTF. Then I thought it couldn't be, I must be nuts and really did not give it another thought until D-Day when it hit me. During a major MB I revealed this and she instantly made the excuse she was having her period and I was crazy. Two problems with that are I stay away when Aunt Flo is around and she got her period a week after that happened. So I have no physical evidence of SA that I can present but at the time I had evidence in hand (yuck) but I just didn't realize it at the time.

There has been NC between her and OM using cell/text or e-mail. She is very aware of some serious tech abilities I have (network admin, computer forensics) and I don't think she'd even trust that the home phone is not being monitored.

For the sake of the rest of this post, please assume that there has been NC between W and OM since the day after D-Day. I will deal with proving or disproving that soon, but go with me on this when considering replies. Don't tell me I am an idiot for assuming this because I am not assuming it, I just want you to.

My concerns are:

She refuses to admit to SA. I think guilt is eating her alive. I have been doing PLAN A for two weeks and she is seeing I am changed. My kids have commented, my co-workers have commented and I know W has seen a change. I CAN forgive and work through it but I think she is afraid and would rather divorce than have to admit it. I know all the books say she needs to admit it but I cannot force it out of her. I am hoping our MC will be able to convince her. Will she eventually be able to admit it? If she sees PLAN A and realizes I can change, she might fear the admission will cause me to file for divorce.

Next, notifying everyone of the SA. We have been doing good for 2 weeks. It would be a big step backwards. Second, neither of us have any family for me to tell...NO ONE. The OM is divorced now so his ex wouldn't care. I know this happened about 8 weeks prior to their divorce being final but their marriage was over anyway. We have a few friends I could expose it to but since there has been NC for almost two months, I think it would be a mistake. I can see no benefit at this point. If I find there is still contact, I will do it but the number of people in our lives is limited.

I know I need to get the SAA book but I'd love to hear some comments and suggestions.

This morning I did more reading and I am a bit confused about my choice of PLAN A. PLAN A is something done to bust the A. At the moment I have no evidence that the A has continued. It may have ended 2 months ago. I continue to show WW that I can be the H that she has deserved to have all these years. She seems happier. Do I show affection? Hold hands during a movie? Go for walks? I am fearing that the more I do this, the closer she will get to me and the less likly she will admit to the SA. However, the ultimate goal is to get her closer, right? :crosseyedcrazy:

Crushed,
Yes that is the goal. You are the BS - it's up to you when you are ready to be closer to her. Is she trying to get close to you? It was my WH's persistence in R that opened me up to being close to him again. If your WW is showing you she is fully committed to R then you have to do the same. Holding back isn't going to help. The more connected I started to feel I also started to feel more confident in my questionning him and he was an open book. He now pretends the EA never happened.

G

Jim,

Thanks for sharing your story, it always helps to have background info to go off of.

MC should help and if he/she is a good one will get her to want to tell the truth.

It's good she is noticing the changes.


Did you tell her this? If not, you should. The hard part will be if/when she does fess up it will be very important for you to control your reaction. The reason I say this is because you are asking her to tell you and telling her you want to work it out. if you freak out at her she will be afraid to tell you anything and will be reluctant from that point forward.

I'm not saying you have to act like it's all OK, just be sure to listen and let her finish. Thank her for telling the truth and if you are ready to explode tell her you are going for a walk, you need to sit alone for a few minutes, or whatever. I'm also not saying you can't react, but if you want her to share stuff she has to feel "safe" doing so or she will not share again.

If she is afraid and has no idea how to say it, ask her to write out what she has to say and have her read it to you. My DH and I at the time had no communication skills so that is what I did with my confession. I knew sitting face to face with him telling him I had cheated on him was going to be the most difficult thing I had ever done in my life and also knew I would leave stuff out. I decided to write it all down and had intended to read it to him. he chose to take the paper and read it himself.

Little did I know that would not be the worst conversation we would have. The worst one was when he asked me to share all the details of the A. That was the absolute most humiliating day of my life. Wish I had time to write that one out, too because there were things I didn't tell him, not intentionally, just that it was so overwhelming to remember it all on the spot. After that initial tell all session I did tell him anything and everything I could recall as it came up. IMO, it ended up being like slowly ripping a bandage off because as I remembered things I would share them. He also knew he was free to ask me to explain in more detail or answer questions he had.


This brings one question to mind.

Then why does she still want to remain friends?

BTW, I think I might know the answer to this question so I will give my opinion. Even if they are not texting/calling, just seeing him out and about in the yard, driving home from work, at the baseball field, shoot even just seeing his car and knowing he is home is satisfying her fix of him. In saying that, I do assume you read how affairs are addictions to the feel goods.

I worked with and lived by my FOM for 2 years after I ended the A. At first we tried the "friend thing" then we decided to keep everything at a professional level. We thought we succeeded at it, but in all reality I remained stuck in my own recovery because I just couldn't let go of the fix I got by simply getting look at him. Does that make sense? Somehow you need to distance yourselves from him.

I know situations can be different, but I am telling you this from a BTDT POV, now knowing I wasted 2 years of recovery time by remaining stuck in needing a fix. Even though I was fully committed to my DH and my marriage I still was addicted to the way my FOM made me feel.

If I were you I would tell his XW anyway. If she isn't already aware it may help her make sense of a lot of things that didn't make sense prior to their D. If she is aware and has been it's a shame she didn't tell you. You won't know unless you ask her though.

I have to cut it here because I have a ton of stuff to do today.

BTW, a couple of good books to pick up are After the Affair by Janis Spring and Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. Check your local library and you won't have to necessarily buy them.

LC

Plan A is to change how she sees you and show her how much you love her. Exposure is to bust up the A. (well that's the way I understand it anyway.)

The answer to all of your questions are YES. Do everything you can to make her feel special. IMO, she will be more inclined to tell the truth if she feels safe and loved.

LC (now I really need to get off the computer)

Hi Jim,

Sorry you are going through this. Been there, done that, unfortunately.

I just want to point out what I see as a big red flag:

"W was friends with OM's wife for years but they had not talked in 6 - 7 years. When I see OM, I am friendly with him. My W and his W had a falling out. Now OM and his wife are offically divorced as of last week. W said she ran into OM at a baseball field where our kids play, talked about his pending divorce and he just needed someone to talk to. They both hate his now ex-wife and misery loves company."

My gut feeling is that this affair started 6-7 years+ ago. Maybe OM's wife found out and that's why she and your wife don't speak anymore, as well as why OM and his wife divorced. It's just a little funny that she was BF's with his wife, they never speak again, OM gets divorced and your wife is suddenly having an affair with him.

Also Jim, by the time waywards admit to affair and say they want to leave, it has likely been ongoing for years. I am guessing that OM called and hung up because your wife was supposed to tell you she was leaving you and kept putting it off. OM was probably getting irritated.

The only positive thing I see is that she withdrew the divorce. I think she has cold feet and doesn't know what she wants now. Another common thing that happens. They get stuck. That is the only area where you have a chance with her.

Also, don't beat yourself up too much over areas that you were lacking in. A marriage is a work in progress and BOTH sides are usually lacking. I admire you because when it was brought to your attention, you stepped up to the plate and are willing to work on what you perceive as your shortcomings, while simultaneously forgiving the unforgivable. A lot of waywards don't speak up when they aren't happy and then blame the poor cuckhold for "causing" their affair. Very cowardly in my humble opinion but I guess very human.

Good luck.

Jim

""W was friends with OM's wife for years but they had not talked in 6 - 7 years. When I see OM, I am friendly with him. My W and his W had a falling out. My gut feeling is that this affair started 6-7 years+ ago. Maybe OM's wife found out and that's why she and your wife don't speak anymore I am guessing that OM called and hung up because your wife was supposed to tell you she was leaving you and kept putting it off. OM was probably getting irritated."

I thought the same thing but had some doubts at first. After reading Shattered's post I no longer have doubts.

She never said she wanted to remain friends with OM. She insisted they were "just friends" but never said she'd continue to talk to him. Without my asking, his name was removed from her phonebook in her cell.

Because of the summer, WW cannot just go out and meet because we have kids. However, with school starting in a few weeks, that brings a bit more freedom. I have taken the necessary steps to keep tabs once school starts so I am not worried.


She has repeatedly insisted it was a freindship. By my telling her this, she will accuse me of being non-trusting. (Which I am of course). We are seeing MC in both individual settings and as a couple. I plan on telling the MC my feelings and if he knows how I feel he may be able to guide her. Honestly I have accepted that it was most likely an SA and I am past that part. The admission from her is what I need to restore some of the TRUST.

No, it started this May. I am certain of that. When I said he was a neighbor, he is actually a former neighbor. We moved out of the immediate neighborhood three years ago. We are still in the same town but that's it.

In October 2007, my wife sat me down. She told me that she was really unhappy in our relationship, felt unloved and so on. She talked of separating then. I convinced her that I could change and she agreed to give us a chance. I met her EN's for about 3 days. This is before I even knew what EN's were. I didn't learn about all the HNHN's stuff until after D-Day when it hit me like a punch in the gut. So I know she was feeling alone in the marriage back then but I was not educated enough at the time to see the warning signs and even when she told me, I did not understand. Now I know that she has been feeling alone in this marriage for years, maybe 10 or more. I AM A TAKER....er, I WAS a taker.

This concerns me. See, when a WS accuses a BS of "not trusting" it is usually a tactic to get the BS to SHUT UP and stop asking questions. That is a sign of insincerity. The solution, as you rightly realize, is not to tell you to shut up and trust, but to take steps to EARN trust. And the way she earns your trust is by being radically honest with you. I do not believe either that you are getting anything close to the full truth.

As long as she has secrets with the OM to which you are not privy, you won't - and shouldn' - trust her.

I suspect, like the others, that this affair has been going on much longer than you know. This is why I think it would be helpful for you to call the OMW and ask her what she knows about this. It may have very well been the thing that led to their divorce.

Dr. Harley SPECIALIZES in adultery and has 35 years of clinical experience in saving marriages. Here is what he says it will take to effect recovery of a marriage:

entire article

UPDATE:

This morning she came into the bedroom, moved the covers and lay next to me very close (spooning). I held her and rubbed her back and head. We held each other for 20 - 30 minutes or so. Her affection seems to be returning. She asked if I loved her and I told her more than I ever have. She told me that she didn't think I loved her. I told her that with what I now know about EN's and relationships, I could totally understand why she would feel that way (validating :-)). She was full of smiles and very loving.

We are sleeping in separate bedrooms. I have serious insomnia which I am ungoing treatment for. I toss and turn, lay awake for 2+ hours and so on. It has been like this all my life and this situation made it worse. I was living on 2 - 3 hours sleep for a few weeks. Now I am up to about 5 hours per night on a good night. I was keeping her up so she sleeps in a different bedroom. Additionally, she has been asking me to get help for it for 15 years but I did not consider how it affected her so I never did...until now. To everyone reading this, you really have no idea how bad I was missing the mark as a husband and parent. From not attenting kids activities to sitting in my office leaving her alone every night in our bedroom. Once I read HNHN's it was like a light bulb went on. This poor woman! How did she make it 17 years to begin with? Still no excuse for any type of A but I really feel bad she was living in this HeII. And had I been there doing the right things, A would never have happened.

I see us moving in the right direction over the last two weeks. I view 8/1/08 as the starting date of our attempt at reconciliation. That was the date the divorce was dropped an I felt a huge weight off my shoulders. So we are only talking 16 days. I know it could take a long time for her to reconnect but this morning was very positive for me.

The way I feel (I can forgive), if she can be honest about everything, we are going to make it.

Jim this may not be exactly what you are looking for - but perhaps it will give you (and others ?) some food for thought.

The second book H and I read together during our recovery was written by Gary Smalley. You can Google to find his web site. One of the things Smalley talks about is the buffalo / butterfly differences between men and women. Smalley uses this analogy to show men how they unintentionally harm their wife. How things that seem small to a man can crush his wife. His approach is similar to Dr Harley's with only subtle differences. One of Smalley's books has a chapter titled "How to Drive Your Wife Away Without Even Trying". It's a nice way to piggyback the knowledge you get from this site.

Just your showing interest is very encouraging!

Pep

You know, that would be horrible to have your husband think such a thing WHEN IT IS NOT TRUE. Would you be willing to drop this notion that she had SEX with the OM and APOLOGIZE if she takes a polygraph? I think the least you can do is afford her an opportunity to demonstrate her honesty to you. Would you be willing to give her this opportunity? I think that would be a very kind and considerate gesture on your part.

And when she passes the test, would you be willing to apologize for your false accusation?

She did not say this, it is my feeling. I want to give MC a chance to bring it out.

Jim, do you think your MC understands how important this is to recovery after an affair? Many MC do not understand this because they are not trained in the dynamics of adultery or in how to save a marriage.

MC is awesome and really seems to subscribe to a lot of Dr. Harleys beliefs. I am thinking in two different directions about her willingness to admit SA.

Let's say we reconnect. She may think that we are now happy so there is no point in bringing it up.

The other possibility is she will feel we have a strong enough bond that she can now bring it up. I just cannot be sure which way it will go.

Knowing her like I do, I think she would rather not bring it up. I am hoping the MC will show her how important it is to admit everything before total reconciliation can take place.

As I said, we are just over two weeks into recovery mode. Time will tell.

That is what I am concerned about. And that is a huge problem. Because there can't be a recovery if it is based on deceit. All of the truth has to come out in order for there to BE a recovery. You will not have a moments peace as long as this lie remains between you, nor will you be able to ever trust her. [nor should you]

You obviously can't trust someone who is lying to you. That is impossible.

Recovery is CONTINGENT upon honesty, not more lies and not more deceit. Her affair is pertinent information about your life to which you have a right.

Jim,


This is good news on both paragraphs I quoted. I guess I misunderstood. I thought she was still in contact and wanted to be friends with him, sorry about that.


You are taking a risk that the lie will always be a wedge between you. If she has any guilt it may stand in the way of her letting herself be 100% invested in rebuilding.

My plan was to take my A to the grave and it was the guilt that about killed me once my DH and I started to reconnect.

I also agree with Melodylane. She stated this:


You have to have a solid foundation in order to rebuild properly. If you rebuild on a lie, it will be like rebuiding on a pile of sand.

If your W has nothing to hide she should be fine with taking a lie detector test, IMO anyway.

LC

I understand the need for her to reveal the truth. What is so hard now is the fact that we are reconnecting. This weekend has been good. As we continue rebuilding, she may reconnect and fall back in love with me. The problem will be that she will be afraid if she reveals the truth, I will not be able to handle it or will refile for D.

I say I can handle it but I would imagine that it is like someone who is terminally ill passing away. You know it is coming and you accept it before it happens but when the event actually happens, it still hurts.

She has a solo session with MC on Tuesday and I have a solo on Wednesday.

Hi Jim,

Glad to hear things are going well. I'm still a bit leary about OM's divorce, 1100 text messages and your wife filing for divorce a week after his is final.

"I say I can handle it but I would imagine that it is like someone who is terminally ill passing away. You know it is coming and you accept it before it happens but when the event actually happens, it still hurts."

Spot on Jim. I'm not sure if you see the Mac truck bearing down on you. I also want to say that you are handling this extremely well. Almost too well. Sometimes I think "we", as in BS's (betrayed spouses) do this because we desperately want something from the other person. Usually, we want to stay married and we want the other person to commit to staying and trying.

One more question. Have you ever had an affair? Just a random thought that entered my mind because I haven't heard the hurt and anger yet. My thought was maybe you are understanding because you have been guilty of an indiscretion or two yourself.

Please understand Jim, I am not making accusations. Having been through this myself I seem to have developed an insatiable appetite for the psychology of an affair - both sides of the equation. Just trying to pick your brain a bit.

Keep us posted and good luck with the counseling.

-Shattered

She filed in June, 6 Days after D-day. OM's D was final first week of August.


No, I have been faithful. My first posting here was almost 2 months after d-day. Trust me, I went through the hurt, anger, LB moments, roller coaster, rage and so on. 6 weeks in this house were downright nasty. I cried daily. I was devistated. When D-day hit I had the same feeling in my chest as when I found out my father died when I was 12.

I took it upon myself to read HNHN's after a pastor told be about it. I recognized that I really missed the mark on being a husband and a father. I never knew about EN's.

I am not offended by your question. Even though I read just about every page on this site in the last 6 weeks, I did not notice that the forum existed until this past week.

PA confirmation can be achieved by DNA sampling of her unmentionables. According to the CheckMate website, samples can be retraced as far as two years.

During a moment of honesty with your FWW you may want to share that the marriage bed needs to be clear of any cloud of distrust. Explain that regardless of outcome you will still be there for her. Continue that you love her but don't yet fully trust her. Ask her not to make you conduct tests unnecessarily.

I have not been able to find this thread can someone post a link to it for me?

Here you go:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1940653#Post1940653

Thanks for the bump. The post by armywife was interesting.

I think I am strugling with my wifes lack of remorse or visible feeling of guilt. While trying to allow her to emotionally reconnect to me, I am being loving, perhaps too much so.

So I read story after story here on MB. So many signature lines and stories end with divorce. This really stinks.

WW is out of state with a female friend and the friends kids. I miss her and cannot imagine life away from her. She only left yesterday morning.

OM is working and his vehicle has moved around in his driveway so I don't worry that she is really out meeting him.

Just venting for the day, sorry.

LC:

How much time past between the time you felt like he was starting to meet your EN's and the time you were reconnected with your H again? I am really struggling here the last two days. I am chugging away at Plan A. All her EN's are being met and she has gone from ICE COLD HATE to cuddling, hugging and kissing. Still no SF at all for me. The problem is my EN's are not being met and I am starting to feel like I want to bail out.

CJ,

I read your thread and see you are both working with an MC and have read a SAA & HNHN? That's a good start. There are other books that are also helpful but it appears you need a plan instead of more books.

What plan? A plan where you both help each other recover. Often when the Xws starts recovery, the BS gets tired.

In reality a good recovery plan doesn't require the BS to work hard but it does require the Xws to work harder to get back the real family status.

Work to attain a clear mind, calm heart and lots of patience.
Both of you need to get your mind and heart in sync so that you both have the same priorities.

Recovery takes patience and effort. It often takes longer than the length of the original A. Ask your MC to help you both with a plan.

Hope this helps.
Orchid

I have read HNHN and SAA. We are working with a MC.

There are two issues to deal with in our situation. One is my missing all her EN's. Two is her A.

I have corrected myself in terms of meeting her EN's which I was missing for years. I took it upon myself to learn, read, arrange MC and so on. I am working my A$$ off here.

The second issue is her A. To date, she will not even acknowledge anything more than a friendship. She does not admit to an EA nevermind a full blown A, which I believe it was. Other than attending an occasional counseling session, she does not seem to be doing much to help us. We were chatting earier this week and I mentioned someone we know who had an A. Her look went very cold and she was staring off, very distant. It seems she has a lot of guilt inside. I think she needs to come clean, admit everything and we can move forward. I aso think she sees the changes in me, feels really guilty and does not want to admit to the horrible mistake she made.

I am about to head off to the MC right now for a solo session and I am going to mention this.

Sorry Jim I do not have an easy answer for you. You see, I felt the need to keep secrets much longer than I should have so it added a lot of time for us.

I'll try to keep this as short as possible and use a time line. My circumstances are a bit different than some because I was working on rebuilding our marriage, but my DH had no idea that was what I was doing or that I had had an affair. Hopefully this will show how I went from stone cold hate to appreciating so much about my DH.

May 1997 my resentment started building toward my H. Things got progressively worse and by 2002 I couldn't stand to have him sit next to me, let alone touch me. I cringe every time he got anywhere near me. Everything he did and said got on my nerves. IOW, I couldn't stand my H.

May 03: A started with a friend we had known for 5 years. He was also a coworker/neighbor and my best friend's BIL.

Aug 03: I started to catch FOM in lies and my head started to come out of the fog.

Sept 03: I ended the A by telling FOM I just could not be doing what we were doing. At that point my plan was to take the A to the grave. At the same time I found an infidelity debate board comprised of mostly woman who were BS's, WS's and FWS's, who kept trying to convince me why I need to tell my DH about my A. I thought they are all crazy. Why in the world would I tell him about something he had no clue about?

Fall 03: I read HNHN and asked DH to do the same. We didn't fill out the EN questionnaire, but did apply a little of what we learned. I started to soften just a little and did start to have a little hope, but when things don't go as well as I planned I found myself still on the verge of wanting to leave. I continue to feed my secret account. Thinking of our girls and their well being is what kept me from leaving for many years. I was to the point that I didn't think I could stick it out until the youngest was 18 (at the time she was 7.) I knew what it felt like to be happy and alive and was not going to settle for what I had settle for before. We kept plugging along.

April 04: DH and I went on a trip to Hawaii w/o our girls. We always traveled with our girls and this was the first trip we took alone in 13 years. Prior to the trip I told myself if we had nothing to talk about except our girls, I was done. Big surprise, we had a fabulous time and really connected. It was at this point I started softening the most.

Problem: Guilt started to hit hard which resulted in me having a MAJOR panic attack on the plane ride home. Little did I know this was only the start of my major anxiety disorder, (lying, cheating and having secrets will do that to a person who normally would be walking a straight path)

April 04 to Dec 04: As the guilt grew so did may anxiety to the point I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Our marriage was improving by leaps and bounds. I read book after book applied things I learned and my DH was following right along. The better things got the worse I felt. It didn't help that I was still working with and living by my FOM. As my guilt grew so did the unhealthy anger I had toward my FOM. I was making his life a living he!!, going between lashing out at him to explaining why I was acting like such a freak,. I'm sure to him it appeared I had multiple personalities. I felt so completely out of control of myself (a very scary feeling).

I can't count how many time I told FOM I was wigging out over the guilt and I needed to tell my H. He would reply with "If you tell you will be ruining 4 lives" or "If you tell I will just tell people you are making it all up." On top of his words I was still posting on the debate board, had the ladies telling me I had to tell and it was all making sense as to why. My head felt like it was literally spinning.

At that point I developed what I call a proverbial ping pong game going on in my head. I had constant thoughts of whether or not to tell. My mind would bounce back and forth with these words. "I need to tell him about the A", "I can't tell, things are going so well it will throw things backward or worse yet, he will leave me." Back to "I need to tell, etc etc. This went on until Sept 04 when I ended up in therapy. My therapist worked wonders and I finally got my head back on straight by Dec 04 and then I knew I had to confess.

Once I confessed the whole truth I knew we could finally start to recover together. To this day my DH tries to make sure he is meeting my needs and I do the same. My advice, keep doing plan A it really does work. It sounds as if she is opening up to it, which means it is working. She should continue to soften and hopefully start to reciprocate.

IMO, if she is hiding things and she is anything like I was she will be afraid to open up, do your best to make her feel safe to do so. Communicate it to her. Let her know no matter how bad she thinks it is you are willing to listen. If she starts to talk, bite your tongue and let her finish. If she did have an A, don't say, "I knew it", "I told you so", etc etc.

After my confession my H hugged me, I felt so safe and knew I did the right thing. 2 weeks after my confession he asked for all the details and after I told him everything he hugged me. Again I felt safe and didn't regret for a second telling him. (regretted the A, but not confessing)

Something to think about, If your W really had nothing more than a friendship what does she have to do to prove that to you? What could she do to make you believe her? Talk to her about this. Tell her why you feel it was more. Talk, talk and talk some more.

I also highly recommend reading The Five Love Languages by Gary Chapman. It is a good book to pair with the MB principles. You need to make sure you are speaking your W's love language and also make sure she knows what your love language is. (this will make sense if you read the book.) Reading this book made my whole life make sense.

Also check out Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. She may see some similarities in her friendship and an emotional A.

Now when I look back, it's hard to imagine the time in our marriage that I honestly hated my H. I cannot imagine my life w/o him in it. I also know there is no way we could have what we have now had I not confessed.

Share my story with her and maybe it will help. I have a great amount of respect for my DH for being willing to work through this mess, especially because I had myself convince he was going to leave me if he knew.

LC

LC:

First of all, thank you SOOO much for spending the time on that response. I think it will help.


This is helpful. I guess I need to realize that it will take her a lot of time to get through this and reconnect.

Let me start by saying my W and I have barely talked about her A. She will not acknowledge it was an EA, let alone a full blown PA. She is not reading HNHN, SAA or any other book. She insists it was a friendship and our entire problem was my not meeting her EN's. I readily admit not having a clue about EN's. As of now, all of the R is on me and only me. She attends MC but that's it. It seems very one-sided and unfair that I was missing the EN's, she had the A and it is all on me to make better. I know this is normal and how it must be for now but that does not make it any easier.


You responded in my other thread about my situation as well as the "proof" of a PA. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2110791&fpart=2

I think I will always believe it was a PA. If I am crazy and nothing more than an EA occurred, I guess I just need to keep going with PLAN A and hope she snaps back. My MC advises AGAINST bringing up the OM at this time. She is reconnecting and he feels that over time she may feel more secure talking about it. If she is not ready, bringing it up would only push her away at this time. Remember we are barely 2 months past D-day.


I think this may be going on in her head but I have no way of knowing. MC says don't bring it up. He is going to work in one-on-one sessions with her to give her guidance.


This is what I am thinking and trying to do. You said yourself that you became afraid to open up because things were going well. I cannot share your story with her at this time although it helps me greatly. I need to keep going with PLAN A. Thanks you again for the time.

CJ,

Your statement above shows some key points. Your POV of what she needs t/d for herself vs what she really needs t/d maybe different or at a different pace. Just for now.

What you wrote is correct but since she is coming for a WS perspective, her path and your path are not going in the same direction....yet. You want to eventually both be on the same path but for now it is not the same, so recovery may not be as you see it for her. Does that make sense? Ask your MC. She may be able to explain it better.

All the best,
Orchid

Jim,



Oops, sorry about that, I went back and reviewed and clearly remember saying to myself "GROSS!" when I read your other post where you talked about your evidence. I obviously didn't review before I replied this time.

Let your MC work on her. BTW, how did your session go yesterday?


Great advice. Leave any talk of OM out of it and keep making her feel safe. Like I said, she is more likely to share if she feels safe.

You said it yourself, you are very early in all of this. Keep doing Plan A.

Good luck.

LC

The sessions usually go well and yesterday was no different. Up until Wednesday I was doing good. Then the "demons" started poking me and the MC brought me back down. He pointed out that because of what she did, she may have a very low feeling of "self worth"; she did the very thing that she despises and it may be eating at her. Her moods are interesting to watch. Just this morning she was in a cuddling mood and shortly after, pretty cold. We went shopping and she was hugging me in the store. We got home and had lunch and she was cold and not talking again. :RollieEyes:

MC makes sure to remind me that her moods may have nothing to do with the situation. It could be anything and I cannot assume a down mood has anything to do with "us". Maybe she is hot, maybe we ran out of sugar and she needed it or any other of thousands of things. I just need to keep smiling, no LB's and make her feel loved and safe.

There has been zero chat about OM and, despite others suggesting I demand a poly, that's just not going to happen. That would bring us right back to day one of this mess. I am going to continue PLAN A and see where we go.

Hey CrushedJim,

I am in the middle of what your wife is experiencing. Her actions sound almost identical to mine. I can say with certainty that what she is going through the fog withdrawal. THe reason she runs hot and cold is because she is fighting her addiction to him and can't decide what she wants to do: stay with you and let him go or leave you to be with him. She knows that if she shows too much softness toward you, it will undo all of the things she has told you about wanting to leave and she will have no "way out" (i.e. will have to explain to you why, when you have been meeting her EN and trying so hard and she was responding, she wants to leave again---REMEMBER that right now she is able to blame you as hte reason because you weren't meeting her EN. If she "gives in" to you, she will then to be the "bad" person if she leaves) if she decides to be with the OM. She knows that if she softens to you, she will have to let go of the thought/fantasy of being with the OM, and she is not convinced that she wants to do that yet. That is why everyone keeps telling you that the A must be exposed: it forces her to make a choice. SHe will continue to run hot and cold until she makes a choice.

Additionally, at this point, even though you are meeting her EN now, she does not trust you. She feels that it is fake and that you won't be able to keep her ENs longterm. She is waiting to see what happens. She doesn't trust you, yet she can't help responding to the way that you are meeting her needs (that is when she runs hot).

You are absolutely doing the right think if you want to keep her. Remember the post above where the FWW said that she told her husband of the affair after they reconciled and she felt GUILTY. She didn't necessarily feel a need to tell him early on because there was no emotional bond between her and her H that was demanding that she do it. The connection and love and acceptance that she feels with and from you is what will bring her to confess; nothing else. Don't try to force her; you will only be viewed as controlling and will push her away. If you want to keep your marriage, keep lovinng her. No matter what she says, accept her. Listen to her (the most important thing in my opinion). Support her. Be kind to her. Don't raise your voice. Don't threat. Don't smother. Tell her you will love her till the day you die even if she chooses to leave you. That is exactly what my husband did, and beause of that I feel back in love with him when I had been ready to walk out and fully convinced that I had no feelings for him only months before.

I think she is sure she wants to stay at this point. I mentioned somewhere else that on D-day I started a log. It started out for legal reasons but I have been keeping up with it for my own "therapy". Looking through the log, even a week after she filed for D, she call me at work and ask me "can we work this out?" I would say sure but by the time I got home, she was not wanting to work it out anymore. This happened 4 - 6 times. I started PLAN A mid-July and after 2 - 3 weeks, she agreed to drop the D. Once the D was off my shoulders, PLAN A became really easy.


There is no doubt I was not meeting EN's for YEARS. I recognized that and admitted it to her. I have been meeting them strong for a month now and she seems really happy. Exposure is to break up and A and I have not found anything to indicate A has continued beyond the day after d-day. Exposure at this time would be a step backward. I can't break up what is already over.

Thanks for your input. I am sure she just needs to see the changes are real...once she is sure of that, the guilt can do the rest of the work for me.

R been going for ONE MONTH and I am losing my mind. Why can't she snap out of it just see the new me is real?

My mind goes from "it is going good" to "she wont reconnect because she loves someone else".

Hey Jim, I'm not sure if I'm much help at all but I just wanted to encourage you to hang in there and keep doing plan A. Don't let her see your frustration or anger. If she feels that you are pushing her or pressing her she will shut down. Just continue to love her and acccept her. It took me six months to "snap out of it"; there is no substitute for time. She doesn't trust yet that the "new" you is real. She probably thinks that it is all an act. She may not believe that you will be able to keep it up or even that you will want to keep it up longterm. Only time will prove that the new you is real and turn her feelings back toward you. If she hasn't completely left, though, you can be encouraged that you still have a chance at saving your marriage and that your efforts are fruitful, even though it may not seem to be so; you are making progress as evidenced by her still hanging around. Stay the course.

I have read a lot about this and I can say it really stinks. I see where PLAN A for women is usually 3 months, men have to do it for 6 months. :MrEEk: The A appears over as far as all of my EP's indicate.

What kills me is the ups and downs. Some days I understand, other days I am telling myself it is because she loves someone else. Whenever she is out and I am not sure where she is, I find I am telling myself she is meeting the OM. EVERY TIME I find out later where she was and nothing is going on. But fail not, the next time it happens, I am thinking the same thing.

Jim,

I wonder if your MC deals with Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or perhaps he can recommend someone who does. If I were you I would ask.

CBT is used to redirect irrational thinking into more healthy thinking. IOW, it could really help you keep your mind from taking you to the "worst case scenario".

Just a thought.

LC

I have a solo appointment tomorrow so I'll ask.

I know that time will help heal this mess but the second I cannot account for her time, my mind is off and running. Every time she tells me about her day, everything matches up with the EP's I have in place. At the end of each day, I am certain that nothing went on. The next day, the same thing happens and my mind is off to the races again. She has NO IDEA this is all going on in my head. It is a terrible way to live.

Thanks again LC.

LG (or other former disconnected women):

When you "snapped back", was it a gradual easing back into intamacy or did it just click one day and hit you?

Hi Jim,

I can only speak to my own experience, but after spending hours reading the posts here over the past month or so, I can see that the Proverb "There is nothing new under the sun" is very true, so perhaps my story is similiar to others.

For me, "snapping out of it" was not a sudden clicking that occured. It was most definitely a gradually easing back into it...very slowly..one day at a time. Even though the A ended and I had determined in my mind to work on my marriage, it was a constant battle every day to stop the thoughts of the OM. For me, it was very much like an alcoholic who has to wake up every day and determine in her mind not to have a drink; I had to wake up every day and determine in my mind to not allow thoughts of the OM to invade my mind. On days when I lost the battle--and it was a fierce battle--even a little, there was distance between me and my H. Many days when I could stop the thoughts/memories during the day, I would dream of the OM at night and wake up the next morning with the distance there between me and my H again. Jim, I am in no way asking for any pity because I got what I deserved and my struggle in no way compares to the pain of betrayal you feel, but I don't want you to think for a minute that your wife is not fighting a mental and spiritual battle, also. The withdrawal is very, very real to her. She obviously wants to fight for her marriage because she IS still with you and IS fighting for it because every minute she has to fight to keep her thoughts in line.

I would have days when I would feel very close to my H, and then that same night dream of the OM and wake up distant emotionally. I would have a great day with my husband doing something fun, connecting with him, really talking...and then be out of his presence for as little as an hour and struggle with longing for the OM....going back and forth in my mind...questioning did I want my H or the OM....was the A "real"...was I missing the "chance of a lifetime", etc., etc., etc. I struggled with all of this even while intellectually knowing the truth of the answers to all of those questions. The "feelings" were what would cause me to stumble, and if I gave even the least bit of credence to them, down I went. And remember, all of this happened with me WANTING my marriage.

I went from never being able to stop the thoughts of the OM, to stopping the thoughts occasionally, to stopping the thoughts during the day but dreaming of him at night. There were many days when I felt like I was walking a fence, waiting to see which side I would land on. I literally thought I was going insane.

Jim, one thing I do want to say is the day that made the most difference during the process was when my h very calmly said to me, "I will love you until the day I die no matter what you do. No matter if you stay or if you leave, it will never change the way I feel about you, but I will not fight with you anymore. The choice is yours." For some reason, when he essentially quit fighting with me and stopped trying to control every aspect of the situation, and placed the choice solely on my shoulders, it was freeing to me. It scared me very much to think that he would let me walk away if that was what I wanted. It made me work fiercly from that day forward on our marriage. I don't know why...perhaps because I knew that whatever happened from that point on would be my responsibiity, and I didn't want to fail. I didn't want to be the cause of my marraige ending. I didn't want to be the cause of any more pain.

It has been six months now, and my mind still tries to trick me occasionally, but each day I am becoming stronger and stronger. I will be victorious in the end. As hard as it is, be patient with her Jim. She is still with you and she it sounds like she is trying. Your marriage is worth fighting for. Time is your greatest friend at this point.

Wow, thanks for that detailed response.

It is good to get a point of view from someone who went through what my WW is going through. My MC said that R is not linear over time. Once the reconnection starts, it shoots up quickly to a point. Then, it begins a slow, gradual climb back to the state of intamacy. Does that sound right?

What you describe sounds exactly what my WW is like. We can sit and hold each other, watching tv or whatever. Later in the evening, she seems annoyed and angry and will not touch me.

I will get unprompted "I Love You's" from her on occasion. Later in the day, I will tell her that I love her and she will just smile and not say anything back. It drives me nuts.

Discussion of SF came up yesterday and her comment was "I'm not there yet". This one makes me want to choke her. She strayed and I have to wait for her before I can get SF? GRRRRR!

I can feel the withdrawals. I know it takes time and I am going to do all I can. But my Love Bank is going to hit $0.00 eventually.

Not that I have a huge following of my situation but there was quite a turn of events.

Friday night the kids were out so I suggested we have a picnic. We packed sandwiches and rode to a park and ate in the gazebo. It was like that switch was thrown in the opposite direction of d-day. She was warm, hugging, sat on my lap, kissed. We got home, held each other while watching a movie and slept in the same bed. Saturday wake up = SF .

The time since Friday night has been great. Massive reconnection (although I am cautiously watching) and happiness. She put our situation and reconnection process a good way:


She is in that period of having the seller accepted the offer but we have not yet had the closing.

For those wanting to reconnect with their spouse, PLAN A WORKS.

Hey Crushed Jim,
You replied to one of my posts, but I just found this one of yours. My story is a little different but relates to your request to hear from disconnected wives. I can't say we've had success though because I am very new to this site. My d-day was just a month ago. My H has basically never met my EN's in our 24 yrs together. Over time I was the one who became very disconnected and put up walls. My expressing my needs was seen as nagging and I just never felt heard. It then became very difficult for me to meet his need for SF and it became very much a chore to me. I really wasn't present except on very rare occasions. I had kind of become bitter and just focused on raising our 5 kids and taking care of the finances of our businesses. What happened to get me here on this site was that instead of me seeking EN's elsewhere, HE had the affair and blamed it on the fact that I didn't love him or meet his physical needs......very hurtful to me needless to say. There is so much to our story (he's a former NFL player, now an ordained pastor that was about to launch a church, very public figure) that I really need to post it all in concise form......do I do that in the Just Found Out Section? Anyway, he just revealed to me yesterday (he has finally started sharign his thoughts/feelings about all this) that maybe I have been right all these years and that it really was all his fault. I should be happy that he finally has "seen the light", but I want to hit him over the head with a baseball bat and say....."Duuuuhhhhhhhhhh". I am struggling with feelings of bitterness that so many years of happiness have been wasted because he was unwilling to hear me. Why did it have to come to this and why do I have to endure this for him to finally get a grip? I know those are completely rhetorical questions, and that maybe I should just accept that sometimes it takes major crisis for someone to really change. I guess I have to decide whether I want to dwell on the "only if's" and have a pity party, or be thankful that maybe we now have a chance to really deal with our issues and have the marriage that we both really want.......with eachother.

Were you meeting his EN's? I know with certainty that I was not meeting hers. I realize that does not justify an A but it helped me understand it.


With that statement, you could be my wife. She went from demanding a divorce and being stone cold toward me to being loving and affectionate.


It works just that way with men. I had no idea about EN's and what I was missing. After d-day and a few days of research and reading, it hit me. It was like a light switch went on. I had feeling I had never felt before. I know that most women are very suspicious of their "changed" husband and it takes time for them to see it it real. I can tell you, for me it was real. My WW is still not 100% on board with the new me but we are already closer now than we have been in years.

I just wanted to pop in and tell you I'm following your story. I didn't think my advice would be helpful however so I haven't posted. I'm a FWW who didn't recover her marriage and I'm sure you want to hear from people who did.

Well, I'm sort of reviving this three year old thread to report I am officially DIVORCED! I did everything I could to save my marriage and she did everything she could do to prevent it for working out. She needed "her privacy" with passwords and multiple cell phones (locked with PINs) and so on. She has all the privacy she wants now. During the divorce I subpoenaed Verizon records and as near as I can count, during the past three years has had seven different boyfriends of unknown intimacy levels. Her number one boyfriend is now all over Match.com hitting on women I actually know! I'm not sure if they are still together or if he is cheating on her. ...and I don't care!

To anyone here for support trying to recover from an affair, listen to those giving you advice. Don't believe it cannot happen to you. And, if you are not able to save it, there is life on the other side. I am a month past the divorce date and really starting to feel happy. I know I did the right thing by working my a$$ off to save it and, once I knew I couldn't, filing for divorce was the right decision.

Good Luck!

And good luck to you too!
I hope nothing but good things come your way.

What an awesome success!!!!!! Thanks for popping in with the update.