I have start over again because everything was lost recently. I will try to make it short.
Husband, 46, left me for OW, 25, 3 months ago and admitted to the affair the day after he left me. OW has a 2yr old and a 4yr old and lives in income based housing. WH move in with her the week he left me because he lost his job the week before because of the affair. WH now makes $11/hr and has about $1300/month bills and OW makes about $8/hr. She is still married and her husband filed for divorce last week. My husband has the paperwork for our divorce and is filling it out and wants it uncontested. I am giving him what he wants. I have gone to plan B but he won't quit trying to get hold of me. I have blocked him from all communication but he got a new email address and today he emailed me saying that he is so glad he is divorcing me because of the things I have been doing and saying about him. That really hurt because I haven't said anything about him or done anything to him except block him and try to stay away. I did email him this and told him that I have always given him what he wanted and that I was going to let him have his divorce because that was what he wanted and I wanted him to be happy(I lied on that part). I know that this is just him trying to justify his actions but it still hurts. My therapist said that this affair will not last. I do love my husband and I do want him back. I also told him that he could ask everyone at work and that they would tell him that I haven't said one thing bad about him.
What is funny is that he has lost everything and I do mean everything. I am an RN at a large hospital and make excellent money and now he can not afford his toys. Ican afford a lawyer and he cannot. I am making him pay for the divorce. If he wants it wuick and easy he has to give me what I want. Good thing all his credit cards are in his name. His own family is mad at him and they know I want him back and I haven't said anything ugly about him to his family either.
BW-me-44yrs
WH-him-46yrs
Married 20yrs
together 21ys
DD 21ys
DD19yrs
D-Day #1 6/30/2009
D-Day #2 7/26/2009
left me 7/25/2009
moved in with OW 7/31/2009
If you want your marriage, WHY are you agreeing to D?
I want my marriage,but in Florida we have a no fault divorce law and I can't stop the divorce. He can file without me and I will get served and I have 21 days to respond and if I don't it will go through anyway. If I could stop it I would. He would just file without me. Right now he is at the ugly stage and I think it is because I won't have anything to do with him and he is saying that I am doing things and saying things that make it easier for him to go ahead with the divorce. I haven't done or said anything at all. As a matter of fact I have been very nice I just refuse to have any contact with him. I figure if I give him what he wants then he will realize that he doesn't want it. I can still reconcile after a divorce. If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear them.
BS-me-44yrs
WS-him-46yrs
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD-21yrs
DD-19yrs
D-Day #1 6/30/2009
D-Day #2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Did you do a Plan A? What did your Plan B letter look like? Have you got an intermediary?
Telling him that you want him to be happy is dishonest and a lovebuster. Apologise via intermediary.
Please read through the articles at this site to confirm your plan. We will definitely help you as you progress!
I have continued to block all forms of communication from my WH but he continues to find other ways to get around it. He thinks that me blocking his phone calls is me doing bad things to him but he won't follow the no communication rule that I set up. If he has anything of importance he can get hold of me through our daughter who has agreed to act as an intermediary. She has told her father to leave me alone unless it is very important and so far none of his attempts to communicate have been important. They have been meant as attempts to hurt me and for him to rationalize what he is doing. He tried to email me again today and now that avenue is blocked and I deleted it. All he is doing is trying to play head games with me. He knows that I still love him and want him back. My family and friends are afraid that the only reason he will come back now is because of money. I have other friends that think he is actually miserable and regretting his decision and trying to strike back at me to make me miserable. They also think he is mad because I won't fight for him but that I am just leaving him alone to his own devices.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 46yrs
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day #1(found cellphone calls) 6/30/2009
D-Day #2 (admitted affair) 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
I want eveyone to know that I never had a chance to do a Plan A because we were already separated and I couldn't be around him or talk to him without crying and told him so. I was on my own form of Plan B before I found MB. My neighbor had given me a copy of SAA 3 weeks after my H left me. I did send my husband the Plan B letter that was very nice and he did let me know that he thought it was the nicest letter he had ever received. Now he is being mean and hateful to me and I have to do whatever I have to to protect myself emotionally. My WH is trying to play head games with me. He wants a divorce and I told him I would sign because I cannot stop it, but now I don't even think he has started to fill out the paperwork. I could be wrong about that though.
BS-me 44yrs
WH-him 46yrs
married 20 yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moves in with OW 7/29/2009
Today my Husband called my work and tried to harass me, but the 2nd word out of his mouth was f---, and I hung up on him. He called our daughter and she called me and told me he needed to get hold of me by email about our divorce but every time he has contacted me he has been hateful and it wasn't about the divorce. Now he is threatening to turn off my electricity (it is in his name still) and threatening me with selling my house so he can get his half of the equity, but there isn't any equity because of the housing market. He can't afford a lawyer because he can't afford to pay verizon $200 that he owes for canceling his contract and wants me to pay verizon. He says I am being immature and hateful and I am not the one who did what he did and it is tearingme apart. All I wanted was to save my marriage and make it better and now he is making me out to be the bad guy. At this moment all I want is for everything to be over and to be left alone. I am not even sure I want to get back with him anymore. I know that it has only been 3 months but I am so tired of him hurting me. Any advice out there on what I should do?
Silence is golden - and he deserves nothing less than total, absolute silence.
I've had to employ the hanging up technique many times throughout the years in dealing with an abusive ex. It is the best way to handle this.
Traci, your WH is finding out about Consequences. We often say around here, "Never protect a WS from the Natural Consequences of his own selfish, destructive actions."
HE wanted to cheat in his marriage. HE wanted to move out of the house to go live with a ho. HE abandoned his wife and children. HE threw it all away.
And he fully expects that you will make this all easy and comfortable for him and is throwing a fit that you won't.
Send him a registered letter, extremely short and formal, saying: "If you require anything from me, have your lawyer draw it up and send it. Otherwise, do not contact me as long as you are seeing another woman." Signed, Traci S.
Oh, he can't afford a lawyer? What a shame. And that is your problem how - ?
You sound like you are in good shape financially. If you haven't already, I suggest you engage a pit-bull attorney to protect your interests and protect you and children.
It always amazes me that WS who stone-cold refused to work on anything while married fully expect that their spouse will work with them while separated/divorced. Amazing. Really.
Married couples work together and help each other. Married couples make plans and decisions together. Separated/divorced people have lawyers and take care of their own damn selves.
And one other thing: I would strongly, strongly urge you NOT to use your DD21 as your intermediary, especially with as nasty as your WH is being.
My XWH tried to use our DS21 as intermediary and I put a stop to that immediately. I told DS21 that he was NOT the Messenger Boy and that nobody had the right to put such a burden on him. He would have been caught in the worst kind of no-man's land, caught between both parents.
In this situation, you get a lawyer and use the lawyer as your intermediary. That's what I did. I don't know how XWH felt about that. I have not seen him, spoken to him, received e-mail from him or heard his voice since about June 1 of 2008 (yeah, 2008).
It's the only way I could stomach any of this.
Your WH wanted to move out and live with his wh*re? Well, he won. He got it. Now he'd better be enjoying it to the max, every minute of every day.
Mulan
As for the electric, call the electric co and get the bill switched to YOUR name.
Traci, you are still very early into this so buckle in for the ride. As far as communication with your WH, if he is dead set on divorce, there is NO reason for direct communication with him. He is your adversary. Let the attorneys do the talking (if it comes to that.) There is NOTHING he needs to talk to you about divorce. If he's serious about it, he'll find a way to file and have you served. Looks like he's not doing that though and I'm betting he won't.
Most affairs thrive on the drama. By removing yourself from their drama, they only have each other. Also by cutting off all communication, you are forcing her to meet ALL of his emotional needs. That pretty much guarantees trouble in paradise.
I agree that using your daughter as an IM is a bad idea. What's going on now will affect her for years to come, even if she is an adult. Is there anyone else that you could use? Although if your kids are grown, and you're financially independent, there's really not much need for communication, except for him to tell you that he's made a mistake and is ready to come home and work on the marriage.
Did you expose this affair? If OW is living in public-assistance housing, she is not allowed to have other people live with her, especially income-producing people. I think a discreet call to the Housing Authority may be in order.
For now though, stick to your deep dark Plan B. Tell whoever is keeping you informed about WH's antics, that you'd prefer not to hear ANYTHING about him. Try and arrange for another IM and then sit back and do nothing as far as the divorce. Fill your days with things that will make you a better person and bring some joy to your life.
We're here for you.
Traci, I live in Florida too, and even though we're No Fault, ain't no way he's gonna divorce you in 21 days. 21 months, maybe. There is property to divide up, investments, etc.
You need to lawyer up and tell him that all divorce-related communications can go through your lawyer. Don't make your daughter be the IM for the divorce.
Tell him you DO NOT want to speak to him unless he wants to talk about reconciliation/marriage counseling. Move his name off the electricity, and tell your lawyer about the house situation.
Protect your finances at all costs.
Report the skank for her housing situation, too.
Tell him one more call or email, and you're taking out a temporary restraining order. See how that helps him in divorce. As mulan said, he's got to learn about the consequences.
See my sig line--the OW was also a little girl.
The past couple of days have been real hard for me. My H has gotten so ugly that I have been crying a lot. I even had to take Ambien just to sleep. The women that I work with at the hospital have been very supportive and some have already gone through this. I went ahead and paid the cell phone bill and I m going to pay for half of the divorce and we will be doing an uncontested simple dissolution of marriage. This way we spit everything up and he gets nothing from me and I will come out ahead. I don't want this divorce but I don't want it costing me thousands of dollars. I know that once we are divorced reality will set in a lot quicker because he won't have me to lean on and he just can't run back to me. I don't know what else to do because he can file without me in Florida and I might have to pay alimony to him and I refuse to pay him anything since he is the one committing adultery. I am not going to support him and that thing he lives with and her 2 kids.
BS-me 44yrs
WH-him 46yrs
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
I guess I am going to be in Plan D in a few weeks, but I do plan on staying in Plan B even after the divorce. I know that eventually the A will end and he will try to contact me, but this time I will hold all the power. I don't want the divorce, but if this will make him come out of the fog faster so be it.
Tonight OW is throwing my WH a birthday party for his 47th birthday (birthday is Nov 2nd. He hates parties and he doesn't like doing anything after work either, but he is letting her do this for him. If I had tried to this he would have had a fit. I can't wait until she figures out what he is like, because eventually his true self will come out. Luckily for my WH I was very easy going, that is why when he left me I told him that I might not be the best person in the world but I was the best person for him.
BS-me 44yrs
WH-him 46yrs
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Traci,
My WH has been very hostile just as yours has. You might want to do more Plan A if you haven't had a chance do do a good one, but beyond that you need to make it very clear that you do not want the D and that you will have no contact with him until he decides to ditch OW and work on the M. Let him suffer the consequences of his decision.
Have decided to give WH his D but it is a simple dissolution of marriage which protects me because we agree on how everything is split up and not the courts. This means he is agreeing to whatever I want. I will not have to pay alimony to him. I don't want the divorce but maybe if he gets what he wants the fog will lift a lot faster. I know that the affair won't last they have everything going against them. He is 21yrs older than her, she has 2 toddlers, they have no money, and he doesn't have patience with small children and he has a LOT of bills. I know that the odds are against him and that the odds are in my favor even divorced I still have a good chance of getting back with him.
Makes sense to me. No better plan B than a plan D. Did you ever report their living situation?
I have a friend whose sister works for the man who owns the apartment complex that is income based and she reported them. I asked her yesterday what is going on because I haven't heard anything yet. My friend said she was going to check with her sister to see what the hold up was on getting them kicked out. My friend thinks they are investigating it but that has been a couple of weeks now.
I am now at peace with myself and about getting the divorce. I know that I have a better chance of getting back with my WH husband than he has at staying with the OW, especially with everything they have going against them.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 found cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
There's a special place in hell for both of them. ((Traci))
I got stupid this morning and sent my WH a link on affairs and got an email back later. He said that I was thinking he was just having an affair, but that he was happy and even if it didn't last he wasn't coming back home and we were not reconciling. That I just needed to get on with the divorce and other stuff. He basically told me to get over with it and go on.
I am going to go ahead with the divorce like he wants but he will eventually wake up and realize he made a mistake. They are all happy at first because everything is new and rosy. It has not even been 4 months since he left me. I will not have any contact with him until the divorce and no contact with him after the divorce. It hurts for me to do this but I have to protect me and go on with my life.
BS-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 3yr old
married 20 yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered the cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH move in OW 7/29/2009
I am doing great right now. I feel great. My WH can't hurt me. I know he wants a divorce but for someone who wanted fast I haven't heard from him in 3 weeks after I told him that my paperwork was filled out and that he needed to fill his out and to fill out the settlement agreement and give it to me to fill out my half and then we would be divorced in 30 days and I didn't want to see him again or hear from him either. I guess I hit a nerve. I finally figured out yesterday that no matter what happens, I WIN. If he comes back and we work on our marriage and make it work, I will be happy and so will he. If he doesn't come back I am still happy with my life and I know that he will realize he screwed up and his affair will be over and he will be miserable. So either way I am happy and I win.
BS-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 3 yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 6/30/2009 discovered cell phone calls
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH moves out 7/25/2009
WH moves in with OW 7/29/2009
Good for you!
It is SO common here, that the BW reaches the same conclusion you did, and the WH goes 'whoa! wait a minute' - they never expect the woman to be relieved to be rid of him. I wonder if people have written books about this phenomenon. They should.
Traci -- just protect your finances. I seem to recall that your income is higher than his, but watch any joint lines of credit including credit cards. My WH has taken every last dime from every line to support his "habit." I should have frozen these accounts at the beginning but I didn't.
And try to determine any "noncommunal" spending he did prior to separation. If he spent money on the OW, then he will be liable for this.
You need to cripple him financially if you can. He and OW may end up together in a SHACK but that's his choice.
I ditto what HH said. Also make sure you have something in your settlement/separation agreement/divorce or whatever document holds water in your state that prevents you from being liable for any credit he starts up in the future. WXH tried to open a CC at the Brick and some other store using my information. He also put my phone number on a lot of applications (when they called, I gave them his current phone number). The other thing he did which was sneaky and rotton was he had my mail forwarded so I wouldn't get my bills. I managed to fix everything except one which he managed to transfer to e-billing to his email address. It was the hot-water heater rental which was only $20 every three months, so it wasn't something I had to watch or pay attention to. I had sent them a void check, but then the company changed hands and they needed a new one for automatic payment. Of course, they only contacted me by email, so he got the info and didn't pass it on to me. I didn't find out until it went to collection. His whole purpose for this was to ruin my credit. Nothing more.
Ditto, Tabby1. And run a free credit report on both you and WH. You'll be able to answer the few questions they ask of him -- which will be YOU. There are three companies that do this for free -- don't pay for any service or give them a credit card number. My suggestion is to run one every few months. Since you can access each one once a year, use one one month, then another in 4 months, then another in 4 months, etc. And do yours the same. These don't give you a credit score, but that's OK. I got mine through a mortgage broker friend -- for free.
This gives you a snap shot of what accounts are open as joint and individual, the balances, payment history, etc. You can see if he's opened up any in his own name, too.
You might not think he's willing to ruin your finances but -- trust me -- OW doesn't care who she ruins -- especially if she's already in a financial mess. She will turn to him to pay off her credit cards, help with the bills, gas up her car, pay her dentist bill -- WHATEVER. She feels "entitled" to him and he becomes her hero.
Regardless of his income, if he has access to money -- even YOUR money -- he will use it to further the fantasy.
Good point HH - do NOT underestimate the influence of OW on YOUR finances. She truly is a threat. The OW in my sitch actually made a few steps towards figuring out how to get CS out of ME for her DD!!!! As nutty as it sounds, WXH blasted the crap out of me for refusing!!!!
We are doing a simplified dissolution of marrigae in which we split our assests. We don't have any credit cards in both of our names and I have already frozen everything so far. I have my own checking account at another Credit union in my maiden name and only my oldest daughter has access to the account and she hates her Dad for what he did to me and to our family. He cannot afford a lawyer because all his money goes to bills and the OWhas to support him and she doesn't make anything. WH has to sell his pickup truck but I doubt he will be able to because he is upside down by $3000. I have also changed all my passwords to my accounts and email. I get all my bills sent to my email account except for a few that are mailed to my house and they are in my name. I know when all my bills are due and pay them 2 weeks before they are due anyway.
BS-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yr with 2 and 3 yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Sounds like you have it together but just be forwarned that he can (and likely will) try to use your name to get credit in the future. You usually can't do it with visa or master card, but it's done all the time with department store cards. The clause I have in my LSA to protect me from this is this:
"Neither party shall pledge the credit of the other or bind the other for debt. If either party has pledged the credit of the other, they will be responsible for reimbursement of debt and legal costs to have the debt removed."
It seems strange that I haven't heard from WH in over 3 weeks. He kept bugging me about wanting a divorce and now I don't hear from him. I hope he is having second thoughts about everything since I told him I wanted him to hurry up with the divorce so I wouldn't have to hear from him or see him ever again, (even though I still want to reconcile). Maybe if he thinks I don't care anymore the fog will lift a little faster. I pray to G-d everyday for chaos, financial woe and whatever He can do to make it harder for my WH to continue in his affair. I also pray for his return. His leaving has brought me closer to G-d than ever before. I have always prayed to Him but this is the first time I have really ever asked for anything for myself and meant it. I know that if I have faith and do not doubt that whatever I pray for I will get. I also prayed that G-d would put obstacles in the way of the divorce and maybe that is what is happening. I am definitely putting everything in G-d's hands and I will keep praying. I just wonder what is going through my WH's mind right now.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 3 yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left home 7/25/2009
WH moves in with OW 7/29/2009
Please read some more here at MB. You'll see that wayward spouses WANT to keep their spouse AND the affair partner, too. Because both women meet SOME of their needs. They WANT both women meeting needs. It's what makes it comfortable - and exciting.
The sooner you stop meeting his needs (by going to Plan B), the sooner he'll see that she is NOT a suitable partner. She's only good for SEX.
I have no contact with him whatsoever. They only reason I had any cntact with him by email was just for the divorce. I am not meeting any of his needs right now. I quit having any contact with him a long time ago because everytime I did I would cry and I didn't need that and that was before I found MB. I have blocked him from everything except emailing me and that was with the stipulation that it was about the divorce only and he had to behave or I would block him again from that. I just can't figure out why I haven't heard from him about the divorce since he wanted one so bad.
But that's the point. He didn't really WANT the divorce. He wanted both of you. He wanted you to BEG him not to divorce you to give him an ego boost. Now that you've removed yourself, all his grand plans have fallen apart.
Thanks, catperson, I guess I needed someone to tell me that. I just wish I knew what he was up to, it makes me nervous not knowing what he will do next. I do not want a divorce, I would like to reconcile but on my terms using everything I have learned from reading Dr.Harley's books. The only reason I agreed to the divorce to begin with was because he was getting ugly and I figured if I gave him what he wanted then maybe he would regret it as soon as he got what he wanted. My Mom thinks that the reason I haven't heard from him is because he thinks that I will contact him first because I want him so bad. I told her that it would be a cold day in you know where before I contacted him. He has always been the one to try to do the contacting first. I think that the reason he has been pushing for the divorce is because of her pushing him to do it and I bet he doesn't realize that her husband just filed 6 weeks ago instead of 3 1/2 months ago like he said she did. It will take months for them to get a divorce because of the 2 children.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 3yr old and stil married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moves in with OW 7/29/2009
Just got back from seeing my therapist and she said I was doing fine and moving in the right direction. I wasn't just going to work and sitting at home. I have been going out with my friends and painting my bathroom and bedroom and I have plans to redo my livingroom next. She said it was good to redo everything and start fresh. She said I have a good outlook on things because I said I win no matter what the outcome and that even if he is happy later on down the road I will be okay and not resent that he is happy. I am doing fine right now. I asked about coming off of my Lexapro and she said that was okay and if I was having problems in about a month then we would switch me to something else. The reason I want to come off is because I have gained 20# since I have been on it and it is interferring with my work as an ICU nurse. I can't seem to concentrate at work and I feel numb and not really there. I have been making mistakes and I don't like that and others have noticed as well. I talked to my therapist about this web site and she knows about Dr.Harley and she is onboard with him. She said if my WH comes back that he would have to follow the advice given by Dr.Harley if he wants to start over and have a better marriage. She said she would counsel us both to help us. She agrees that my WH likes having 2 women wanting him and thinks that he knows I still want him back even though I haven't contacted him in almost 4 weeks. The last thing I told him was that once the divorce is through I didn't want to see or hear from him again and that is true unless he wants to reconcile. I actually made it through this counseling session without crying and I haven't cried in a month. I actually feel great about everything. I told my therapist that I actually think that my WH will eventually come back I just didn't know when. She feels he will too. So far she has been right about everything since I started seeing her and I started seeing her before my WH left me. My mother even likes her.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 3yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day #2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moed in with OW 7/29/2009
Just got back from seeing my therapist and she said I was doing fine and moving in the right direction. I wasn't just going to work and sitting at home. I have been going out with my friends and painting my bathroom and bedroom and I have plans to redo my livingroom next. She said it was good to redo everything and start fresh. She said I have a good outlook on things because I said I win no matter what the outcome and that even if he is happy later on down the road I will be okay and not resent that he is happy. I am doing fine right now. I asked about coming off of my Lexapro and she said that was okay and if I was having problems in about a month then we would switch me to something else. The reason I want to come off is because I have gained 20# since I have been on it and it is interferring with my work as an ICU nurse. I can't seem to concentrate at work and I feel numb and not really there. I have been making mistakes and I don't like that and others have noticed as well. I talked to my therapist about this web site and she knows about Dr.Harley and she is onboard with him. She said if my WH comes back that he would have to follow the advice given by Dr.Harley if he wants to start over and have a better marriage. She said she would counsel us both to help us. She agrees that my WH likes having 2 women wanting him and thinks that he knows I still want him back even though I haven't contacted him in almost 4 weeks. The last thing I told him was that once the divorce is through I didn't want to see or hear from him again and that is true unless he wants to reconcile. I actually made it through this counseling session without crying and I haven't cried in a month. I actually feel great about everything. I told my therapist that I actually think that my WH will eventually come back I just didn't know when. She feels he will too. So far she has been right about everything since I started seeing her and I started seeing her before my WH left me. My mother even likes her.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 3yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day #2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moed in with OW 7/29/2009
Is your WH fat or in good shape? I'm curious..DUDE
I wish you would ask your dr to give you a different prescription, not just let you go off of it. You're coming up on holidays, and I don't think you'll be able to handle it without ADs.
WH is a diabetic and has high cholesterol but had finally gotten down to 180# with me encouraging him to lose the weight and with me getting him to work out at the gym with me. He lost 55# over about a year and went off of his diabetic medication but wasn't monitoring his blood sugar. I think if he was still 235# she wouldn't have looked twice at him and he was losing the weight before she ever started working at his previous job. I bet he need to go back on his medication again but now he won't be able to afford it because we just had our drop/add on the insurance this past month and he will be uninsured come January 1st. I have no idea what he looks like now but I do know that he hasn't been working out since September. I also know that he has started up smoking again after quiting for almost 19yrs( that is what guilt will do to you). My WH is a handsome man and looked great when he left me but like I said I have no idea what he looks like now. Knowing him he has put on weight.
As for me, I am going to wean myself off of the Lexapro and stop it so I should be okay. I can handle stress very well but couldn't handle my husband leaving me at first. My therapist and doctor are going to watch me closely, especially my doctor since I see him at the hospital almost every day that I work.
WH is a diabetic and has high cholesterol but had finally gotten down to 180# with me encouraging him to lose the weight and with me getting him to work out at the gym with me. He lost 55# over about a year and went off of his diabetic medication but wasn't monitoring his blood sugar. I think if he was still 235# she wouldn't have looked twice at him and he was losing the weight before she ever started working at his previous job. I bet he need to go back on his medication again but now he won't be able to afford it because we just had our drop/add on the insurance this past month and he will be uninsured come January 1st. I have no idea what he looks like now but I do know that he hasn't been working out since September. I also know that he has started up smoking again after quiting for almost 19yrs( that is what guilt will do to you). My WH is a handsome man and looked great when he left me but like I said I have no idea what he looks like now. Knowing him he has put on weight.
As for me, I am going to wean myself off of the Lexapro and stop it so I should be okay. I can handle stress very well but couldn't handle my husband leaving me at first. My therapist and doctor are going to watch me closely, especially my doctor since I see him at the hospital almost every day that I work.
Yeah, the Karma is headed for him. Maybe he can sing the song w/ those little kids he is living with! "The wheels on the karma bus go round and round, round and round, round and round. The wheels on the karma bus go round and round, all around the town." DUDE
She said I have a good outlook on things because I said I win no matter what the outcome and that even if he is happy later on down the road I will be okay and not resent that he is happy. I am doing fine right now.
Traci,
Glad to see you feel better about whatever outcome. The more you work on yourself the more empowered you will feel.
Gg
I lost it yesterday and had a crying fest while I was taking down my border in my bedroom. I actually got mad for the first time since my WH left me 4 1/2 months ago. I beat on the wall and screamed and yelled at God. I was ripping off the border and yelling I hate you Wade! I also was yelling a few other choice words that I cannot post here. Now I am at work with puffy eyes. Doing better today.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 3yr old and still married.
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Anger is good.
Fear is bad.
((Traci))
Just take it day-by-day, girl.
You still have a lot of life left in you, you just don't know where it's heading.
My guess is there's something good coming up soon.
Hang in there.
>She said I have a good outlook on things because I said I win no matter what the outcome
I totally agree with her.
And...
You totally rock, Traci! I think you are wonderful!
You know, some days I am happy and fine and others I just want to scream and take a baseball bat to both of them. I can see why people do what they do when they are betrayed. I wouldn't really take a bat to them but I don't think I would regret doing it if I did. I am not a violent person, I just want everyone to know that. I am getting better everyday.
What is really nice is that I know that the OW is going to get tired of supporting my WH because neither one of them has any money and with all his bill he has only a couple of hundred dollars left over every month. Heck, the insurance company just upped his truck insurance by $30/month becasue he no longer has the multicar discount because I separated his truck from mine and the our daughters vehicles. He now has to pay almost $100/month.(Snicker,snicker,giggle,giggle). The more he has to pay out for bills the less he has for her and her 2 kids. He can't even pay for a divorce never mind a lawyer. I even volunteered to pay half which is $200. He told our DD 19 that he was going to sell his truck on ebay and I don't see how, since he is upsidedown on it by $3000-$4000. He is paying $710/month for it now.
I really hope he cannot come up with the money for the divorce and that he will come around soon. I don't want to get divorced and I would like to reconcile, but until then I am taking care of me. Started painting the bedroom yesterday and got my hair and nails done this past Saturday. Also went to 2 parties Friday night. I know one thing, if I do get divorced and when I am ready to date,I have 2 doctors wanting to go out with me.
I know that at times I sound silly and say off the wall stuff, but that is how I feel at times. I just wish I knew what to do. Writing here is some of the best therapy I can get. I just want to get my husband back and to work on our marriage. I know that I have to wait until he realizes that he has made a mistake and wants to come back and that takes time. Until then I have to grow and take care of myself. I have to give time time. I feel so frustrated at times because I know that his affair isn't going to last and I just wish I could get that through his thick skull. He is an idiot! I know that in the end they will get what they deserve.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 3yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 dicovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
I know that at times I sound silly and say off the wall stuff, but that is how I feel at times. I just wish I knew what to do. Writing here is some of the best therapy I can get. I just want to get my husband back and to work on our marriage. I know that I have to wait until he realizes that he has made a mistake and wants to come back and that takes time. Until then I have to grow and take care of myself. I have to give time time. I feel so frustrated at times because I know that his affair isn't going to last and I just wish I could get that through his thick skull. He is an idiot! I know that in the end they will get what they deserve.
Traci, you just said in a few sentences the entire focus of MB. I think you're doing great! Please keep it up, and keep letting us know how you're doing.
Today will be my last day taking lexapro. I had cut in half and now I have been taking a half dose every other day. My counselor said that I would probably have some mood swings for a couple of weeks and the only thing that has happened is that I finally got angry this past Saturday. Today someone I know asked if I had heard anything from my WH and I had said no. She had wondered if he had married the OW and my heart almost leapt out of my chest. I told her no because we were still married and she was still married to her H. The reason she had asked was because her daughter knows the OW and said that on facebook she is listed as married. Now I am a little down. I feel like crying.
Yesterday I received a package in the mail for my WH. It seems he had ordered something and had it sent to my house. I know why he sent it, it was because he isn't suppose to be living where he is at. It is income based housing and he isn't on the lease and together they make too much money. The package wouldn't have fit in her mailbox and would have gone to the apartment complex office and they would have been discovered. One of my friends is going to pick up his mail at my house and take it to the apartment complex where he lives and tell them to give it to him and who is living with. My WH told me when I told him he couldn't live there that she was paying full rent. He must think I am stupid. I found out that you can live there only if you make less than a certain amount. If he says anything I will just remind him that he said it was ok because she paid the full amount.
I just pray with all my heart and soul that he returns. I know that he is going to return because God has been giving me signs for months now. 2 of the signs were blatant. I was feeling very low and giving up on my marriage and I received a message on a Christian web site that said "DON'T GIVE UP" in big capital letters.The last message was while I was going through the Bible and I came upon Mark 11:22-24. It said to have faith and do not doubt and whatever I say will happen and whatsoever I desire when I pray I will receive it. I wasn't even looking for anything like this. I have never doubted that my WH was going to return. It seemed when I was at my lowest God was there to pick me up and to give me hope again.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 3yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moves in with OW 7/29/2009
I'd write no longer at this address on it and give it back to the mailman.
It's called a consequence.
I'd write no longer at this address on it and give it back to the mailman.
It's called a consequence.
Agree 100%. When WW was moving out, the first question she asked was if she could continue receiving mail here (since she couldn't *officially* move in with OM). I said no. She was moving out (and that was one of the items I listed in my Plan B letter).
Early this week I received notice from the Post Office that her change of address had been processed. I have no idea where she's now receiving it, but Plan B requires that I don't care.
I'd write no longer at this address on it and give it back to the mailman.
It's called a consequence.
Something your WS has had VERY LITTLE of.
Do NOT support his affair!
Send it back! Drop it off at the post office. If he hadn't left, he would have received it. He left. His tough luck.
Until you get stronger and madder and stricter, he will continue to cake eat - which is exactly what wayward men want.
REMOVE your slice of cake from his plate.
Yup. Back to the post office--return to sender. Same as with any other mail that might make it to your box.
I'll pick up all his mail that is on the front porch and take it to the post office Friday. He probably will come and check to see if that package is there while I am at work. It came in yesterday so hopefully he hasn't been by yet. He has a lot of mail on the porch so I will probably send it all back or throw it away. this will probably get a response from him. I think he wxpects me to make contact with him but I won't. He left me and he wants the divorce so I refuse to do anything to help him out. I don't have anything to do with him at all because I am in plan B and the only reason I let him email me was becasue he wanted a divorce. Now, since I told him to hurry up with it so I don't have to hear or see him again he hasn't done anything. Guess he doesn't want a divorce as bad as he thought. Haven't heard from him in almost 5 weeks. Hope this continues because I don't want a divorce even though I know it is just apiece of paper and we can reconcile after the divorce.
Hi Traci,
Hang in there, keep doing what you're doing. Harley says Plan B is very stressful and now you experienced how true it is (I wish you didn't have to). I'm glad you don't need the meds anymore. Good advice from everyone on how to handle his stuff. Remove yourself from anything that is his responsibility.
Gg
Sweet heart you are no mail service.
Send his mail back.
Better yet....simply write on the package and mail "no such person at address...forward to... (insert WH address here)"....then the package will get to his new residence where it should have gone too. If the managers office gets it....Oh well. He should have considered that before he moved in there.
Don't help him lie about how he is living.
She is not his secretary, no forwarding. Just RTS (return to sender) on ALL his mail.
Well, a good thing I didn't send back that package. DD 19 asked me if a package had come in for WH and I said yes and she said that he had ordered her a power cable for her XBox. So the package was for DD. All the other mail has been thrown in the garbage. Thanks for everyones opinion. I really appreciate all of you and your insights.
Hi,
there are a few thing I wanted to comment about as I have been reminded myself of in this forum many times. So I will pass him to you.
The sooner you stop meeting his needs (by going to Plan B), the sooner he'll see that she is NOT a suitable partner. She's only good for SEX.
Yes, and sex is a powerful thing. Man have it as one of the highest EN. Till she meets that need he will not leave her. If he leaves her.
I have no contact with him whatsoever.
You sent him a link on As not to long ago. That is major contact because it brings us relationship issues and that is a no no to beging with...and when in plan B is really breaking NC big time.
I feel so frustrated at times because I know that his affair isn't going to last and I just wish I could get that through his thick skull.
You do not know that. His A could go on forever and he could very well end up M her. A in general do not last, but some do. You need to take care of yourself and not keep wondering what he and she are doing. If your mind is always with him who is thre with you? YOu abandon yourself everytime you go into his business. If we abandon ourselves no wonder we end up feeling abandoned!
Oh Yes, now doubt about it!
I know that in the end they will get what they deserve.
Do not count on karma, life is not always fair and the way we look at things is not the way our WS look at things. They have a different view of the world and what looks like misery to us might just be fine to them.
I would date those doctors as soon as possible and start to take care of your needs and forget about him.
Three weeks are not to long for stalling on a serious thing as a D. You can't say yet that he no longer wants it. He might very well want just that.
I am sorry if I sound harsh,but this is what i also tell myself daily.
Make sure you make it clear to you H that you are leaving a door open even after D. It was not clear to me if you actually verbalize that to him or wrote it to him.
blessing
Yes, Atena, I know that I have to do better but it is hard and I never expected it to be easy. I haven't had any contact with WH in 5 weeks and haven't seen him in about 4 months. Right i am trying to take care of me. Last night I went out after work and enjoyed myself. I don't plan on dating until after I am divorced andI am ready. I still have respect for myself and my marriage vows even if he doesn't. I am not even ready to date right now.
The reason I don't think they will last is that they don't have any money and won't for many years. Also my WH is diabetic and has high cholesterol and is 47yrs old. That is not a good combo especially when you don't have insurance anymore. He can not afford insurance even if his company offered it and he can't afford to go to a doctor or to buy his medication. Diabetes affects a lot of things at that age especially you know what. And with no medication it speeds up the process and he has had neuropathy in the past until he was on medication. So with no money, no sex, him not helping her and going no where she isn't going to stay.
I know that in the end they will get what they deserve.
Do not count on karma, life is not always fair
You never know.
He might come back as a lizard.
The sooner you stop meeting his needs (by going to Plan B), the sooner he'll see that she is NOT a suitable partner. She's only good for SEX.
Yes, and sex is a powerful thing. Man have it as one of the highest EN. Till she meets that need he will not leave her. If he leaves her.
Til she meets that need? Don't understand. Who?
fwiw, many many affairs HAVE been stopped precisely because the man no longer gets all his other ENs met. It's like eating ice cream for every meal. May sound like heaven at first, but after a couple weeks, you'll realize that a sandwhich now and then would be heavenly.
I think you mean it's like eating CHEAT-os for every meal, CP.
Sorry.
Couldn't resist.
Yes, I have to agree with you that after you description of you H situation his A will not last long.
But you are hinting that he will return only for the money. How do you feel about that? Is that ok with you?
Also we do not think the same way as the WS. They are aliens so they do not think like us. They might like ice cream all the time. Look at facts...many WS do not return to their spouse. Sad but true!
We need to think of us. Congrats! You are doing well! Me too, i am not ready to date either.
blessing
atena, I realize you're letting your own situation drown out your opinions, but MB does work. Not always, of course, but it has a better success rate than most other options out there. Because it's based on psychology. We can predict a lot of things about waywards, such as how Plan B will often affect a WS.
If my WH comes back becasue of money he will have to live with his friends and still work on our marriage my way which will be according to Dr. Harley's principles. I really don't think he will return because of the money but there is a chance he will return because of that. Statistics show that 65% of couples reconcile after an affair and of the 35% that get divorced 80%regret getting a divorce that means I have a 93% of getting back with my WH before and after a divorce and he has less than 1% chance of making it with her. I didn't tell you that I like to read and do research and I love math. That is what happens when you are a nurse and been in the military and were once a marine biology major. It makes me mad that my WH went from me, a very well educated, smart, attractive, easy going,hard working, loving woman, who would of and did anything for him to an uneducated skank who is going nowhere and will never go anywhere. I always put my WH and my children first in my life and I guarantee she will put herself and her children first. Now I am going to put me first because I am what is important now. My children are grown and leading their own lives and now it is ju st me.
Money, I've heard, is often the deciding factor for MEN to decide if they should fish or cut bait... stick it out or bail while they still have a chance.
Face it... many of these men are past their prime in the job market. They have worked to build retirement funds and salaries that they might be in jeapordy of losing if they continue their affairs.
And let's not forget discrentionary income. Suddently having to live on a budget when they haven't for so long can't be fun. ESPECIALLY if a chunk of their salary is going back into their family -- ex and kids and house.
Pride comes before the fall. And if they LIKE being poor again and worrying about money, then who better to comfort them than the OP. If they loved them when the wayward was showering them with gifts and affection, they can love them during the hard times and the depression.
Remember the "for better or worse" part? Us BSs do. Let's see how long the OP sticks around for the "worse" part.
Hi Traci,
In the future, I wouldn't toss his mail in the garbage, since that might be a crime. Write return to sender on it all and drop it in the closest USPS box. Better yet, do a change of address so all of it goes to skanky's apartment. That ought to raise some red flags.
This mail has been collecting for about 2 months and I don't have his address, I just know what apartment complex he is at. If he wanted it badly enough he would of came and got it.
Yeah, then return to sender is the best way. Why give him a reason to stop by. "Sorry pal, ain't no mail for you here, cuz you don't live here anymore."
If my WH comes back becasue of money he will have to live with his friends and still work on our marriage my way which will be according to Dr. Harley's principles. I really don't think he will return because of the money but there is a chance he will return because of that. Statistics show that 65% of couples reconcile after an affair and of the 35% that get divorced 80%regret getting a divorce that means I have a 93% of getting back with my WH before and after a divorce and he has less than 1% chance of making it with her. I didn't tell you that I like to read and do research and I love math. That is what happens when you are a nurse and been in the military and were once a marine biology major. It makes me mad that my WH went from me, a very well educated, smart, attractive, easy going,hard working, loving woman, who would of and did anything for him to an uneducated skank who is going nowhere and will never go anywhere. I always put my WH and my children first in my life and I guarantee she will put herself and her children first. Now I am going to put me first because I am what is important now. My children are grown and leading their own lives and now it is ju st me.
93% of getting back with my WH? I think that your math/logic is flawed.
If you take 100 couples and 65 get back together after an affair before a divorce then that is 65%. Of the 35 couples left 80% regret getting divorced that is 28 out of 35 then that leaves only 7 that means 93% chance that I will get back with my WH because he will regret getting divorced. Now he could be one of the 7% who don't regret it. I still have a better chance at getting back with my WH than my husband has of making it with the OW. But for now I am going to take care of me and have fun with my friends and redo my house. I am already making plans on going to disney World in February and Texas in March. After that I haven't planned anything.
Yes, you do have a better chance that your WH will want you back then him and OW living happily ever after....I think usu the problem is by the time the [censored]es realize it the BS has usu moved on...
If you take 100 couples and 65 get back together after an affair before a divorce then that is 65%. Of the 35 couples left 80% regret getting divorced that is 28 out of 35 then that leaves only 7 that means 93% chance that I will get back with my WH because he will regret getting divorced. Now he could be one of the 7% who don't regret it. I still have a better chance at getting back with my WH than my husband has of making it with the OW. But for now I am going to take care of me and have fun with my friends and redo my house. I am already making plans on going to disney World in February and Texas in March. After that I haven't planned anything.
80% regret getting divorced? Who doesn't regret getting divorced? That doesn't mean 80% go back to their ex-spouse? DUDE
Statistics is not an exact science. I was just using the numbers that I found during my research at the beginning. It made me feel better in the beginning and I just remember them still. Right now I am not worried about my WH coming back or not, even though I want him back. I do know that of the 80% who regret getting divorce doesn't mean they reconcile but it does increase my chances of reconciliation if I am still interested whenor if he decides to reconcile.
Again, I would like to thank everyone for their opinions and help, I really appreciate it. I know that I kind of go off the deep end but then I think we all do at one time or another. We are allowed because of what has happened to us. It is how we handle things later and how we let it shape us is what counts. I know deep down that I will be a stronger and better person in the long run.
MB is great and we must all agree as we are on this forum!
However it works when it does and at times it doesn't.
Humans are complicated and there are too many variables involved plus we are also dealing with WS, a highly unstable group of people.
Making prediction about what they will do, how long the A will last, that bad things will happen to them because they did bad things to us, etc...is only wishful thinking and does make us feel good to think of it. So we indulge and feel better for a while.
But ultimately we all know that we don't know.
Cat, you said we can pretty much predict how plan B will effect WS. I agree in some cases like in this one where the H is sick with diabetes, has financial issues and is with OW much younger....but if none of the above come into play then plan B might very well be just what it is...a way for the BS to get over the WS(and is worth a million just for that) and a way for the WS to get the BS out of his/her life for good and move on with OP.
If there is no evident reason or aggravation for the WS during plan B to go back to BS, most likely WS will stay with OP till OP ends it and then move into yet another person and so on.
They have no reason to go back to marriage.
Maybe I am not understanding correctly and my words above are due to misinterpretation. But FOG basically means that WS is in romantic love with OP. This feeling is very powerful and till OP plays along (and lots of them will especially the ones that are not educated and have a lot of admiration for WS or simply like their income...) the WS will not end the A that easily.
Please understand that I am talking about people in plan B here where the WS has moved out and is either living with OP or alone but seeing OP regularly. I am not talking about the people on Plan A or the one who exposed the WS who is still living with them They have a lot more hope.
But plan B, really, according to the Harleys, gives little hope to the BS but the possibility to move on. Harley himself maintains that once WS moves out they rarely move back. His words not mine.
I got stupid this morning and sent my WH a link on affairs and got an email back later. He said that I was thinking he was just having an affair, but that he was happy and even if it didn't last he wasn't coming back home and we were not reconciling.
Yes, this is what my H told me too when I uncovered his A and told him I knew who OW was. There is a very high chance that what they will do what they say and not move back with us. Once out it is hard to re-start and my H is very proud and knows that to R the M will take lots of effort. Plus he is very good looking and has OW after him all the time. Unfortunately there is always a shank that is willing to put up with them and they will put up with her for the thrill of sex.
I know reality is harsh, but if we keep telling ourselves little fairy tales we will be very disappointed!
blessing
atena, not to belabor this, but have you read any of the 'success' threads? MB works so often because it is based on psychology. Affairs thrive on secrecy; they run off of chemicals in the brain from the excitement. If you take the secretness away, if you add in family members that now look at you with disgust - if you follow the method of exposure - affairs often don't look as great.
Exposure brings in many other aspects, like an angry OMW, money issues, legal issues, that bring REALITY into an affair which, after all, is just a fantasy. Once that fantasy bubble bursts, the two people have to really look at each other and see if there really is a reason to be together.
And sometimes, exposure is enough to create a break between the lovers. Once that happens, once the crack is withdrawn from the addict, the fog CAN break up, and allow the WS to see what was really going on.
Of course it's not a magic pill. There are plenty of divorces talked about here. But MB provides a much better statistical chance at recovering marriages than NOT using it.
I'm wondering what point you are trying to make, actually. You come here and tell other posters who are trying to fix their marriage...what? To give up and divorce? Because life sucks?
I understand it may not be working out for you, but I'm curious why you're going to someone else's thread and telling them to ignore MB because it's all pointless.
But plan B, really, according to the Harleys, gives little hope to the BS but the possibility to move on. Harley himself maintains that once WS moves out they rarely move back. His words not mine.
Embedded quote:
"I got stupid this morning and sent my WH a link on affairs and got an email back later. He said that I was thinking he was just having an affair, but that he was happy and even if it didn't last he wasn't coming back home and we were not reconciling."
Yes, this is what my H told me too when I uncovered his A and told him I knew who OW was. There is a very high chance that what they will do what they say and not move back with us. Once out it is hard to re-start and my H is very proud and knows that to R the M will take lots of effort. Plus he is very good looking and has OW after him all the time. Unfortunately there is always a shank that is willing to put up with them and they will put up with her for the thrill of sex.
I know reality is harsh, but if we keep telling ourselves little fairy tales we will be very disappointed!
blessing
This is my sad expectation, too. I certainly believe the A will end (and relatively soon too, unless I miss my guess). But WW is also attractive, determined and incredibly determined. She will likely just move on to the next
sucker OM, as it now is apparent this is her typical behavior.
I am already working on putting her out of my life. I haven't yet started a thread on the D/D forum, but when the required six month waiting period is over, I anticipate moving there...
Dear Cat,
I do not think you read my post correctly. I am actually prizing plan B and I am doing plan B.
What I am tired of hearing it all the assumptions we are making that WS will eventually end the A and R the M. Those are merely assumptions,
I think we should stick with the true purpose of plan B which is for the WS to get a life and move on. NOt a D, a life. If M recovers, fine, then the BS is in R with the WS and there is not longer a plan B. But as long as we are in the surviving an A forum and on top of that on plan B, then we must know what plan B is really about. Feeding illusions does not help. I am sure you do not want to give false hope. Of course we all hope for R.
I know MB works and I will read from the R forum which I have to admit I have not tackled at all.
blessing
Yes Fred, I think we are both stuck with very good looking but serial-cheater spouses. My H cheating flared and florished when we moved to Europe. We are ultimately better off without them. I just don't get how my H can fall for a neightbor woman who has not appeal but large breasts. He has stooped so low. He could have picked better.
His problem is that he has a very low self esteem but he is also very determined to be happy and to buy back all the years he says he spend dedicating it to us with no hapiness for him.
blessing
Yes Fred, I think we are both stuck with very good looking but serial-cheater spouses. My H cheating flared and florished when we moved to Europe. We are ultimately better off without them. I just don't get how my H can fall for a neightbor woman who has not appeal but large breasts. He has stooped so low. He could have picked better.
His problem is that he has a very low self esteem but he is also very determined to be happy and to buy back all the years he says he spend dedicating it to us with no hapiness for him.
blessing
Atena, I don't think my WW is a serial cheater, I just think she's not capable of maintaining a relationship when things start getting tough. In her case, it's a twist on the old saying, "When the going gets tough, the tough get going."
In her case, the "going" = "leaving."
And no one should dilude themselves into thinking that an abandoned betrayed spouse has a 93% chance of their WS returning. That is just false my friend. Its probably remote at best..DUDE
Is there a term for "serial monogamist?"
Is there a term for "serial monogamist?"
I think it probably exists. Sort of a "seasons of life" person. They aren't a cheater, they just get bored w/ the current relationship, end it, then start a new one! DUDE
Serial monogamist=cowardly cake-eater
Serial monogamist=cowardly cake-eater
How is that cake eating? I thought we used cake eatin for married folks enjoying all the benefits of marriage while having someone on the side. DUDE
Thank you everyone. I think I am going to be like my Boston Terrier, Sadie, I am going to be happy. She is the happiest living thing on this earth. I have never seen her be anything else but happy. She plays with everyone and all other animals. She even plays well just by herself. I am going to take a page out of Sadie's book and be happy with myself and life. I like and respect myself and so do my family and friends. And Sadie loves me and thinks I am great and so do I.
Everyone here has great advice and thoughts. I know that Plan B is for me to heal and recover myself, but it would be nice to have my husband come back. I know that everyone of us has thought that as well and that hasn't happened for everyone. If my WH doesn't come back I will survive and I know that. My Christmas wish for all of us is that we have a good one with or without our WS. They are the ones who will lose out in the long run. We just have to remember that.
Thank you everyone. I think I am going to be like my Boston Terrier, Sadie, I am going to be happy. She is the happiest living thing on this earth. I have never seen her be anything else but happy. She plays with everyone and all other animals. She even plays well just by herself. I am going to take a page out of Sadie's book and be happy with myself and life. I like and respect myself and so do my family and friends. And Sadie loves me and thinks I am great and so do I.
Everyone here has great advice and thoughts. I know that Plan B is for me to heal and recover myself, but it would be nice to have my husband come back. I know that everyone of us has thought that as well and that hasn't happened for everyone. If my WH doesn't come back I will survive and I know that. My Christmas wish for all of us is that we have a good one with or without our WS. They are the ones who will lose out in the long run. We just have to remember that.
Its tough, I know. Have a good weekend. PEACE
DUDE
He might come back as a lizard.
Okay, Cat, that really made me laugh. I just pictured this lizard guy with a long tail walking in the door saying, "Hey Hon, I'm back....." Kinda like that Geico gekko dude......
Well, thanks for the chuckle -- even if it wasn't intended.........
Well, Well, guess who texted me today? My WH. He had heard I had been having trouble with me internet connection through our DD 19. That was 2 or 3 weeks ago. I fixed itmyself. He just volunteered to come over and fix it for me. I didn't respond. He has to know when I am on the internet because we have AOL and it shows when our family and friends are on it. Please, I am not that stupid. Wonder what he really wants. Not looking into that too closely. Don't trust him. Probably wants to talk about the divorce again. Today I don't really care, just want things to over with. I know I am rambling again. Some days I want him back so bad it hurts and other days I could care less and could care less if I never saw him again.
I just found my DD 21 Boxer, Baby, dead outside. I couldn't get hold of either of my daughters. I was doing fine digging a hole in the backyard, but when I had to put her the hole I lost it. I started crying and sobbing and then it started to rain. This has been a crappy year. First I hadn't been working much, then my WH accidently killed my dog, Winston, then a week after that I discovered the cell phone calls, then a month after that my H leaves me, my daughters are rarely home anymore, and now Baby dies. I feel like God has abandoned me. I am tired of hurting. I know that isn't doing this to me but I feel like he is letting it happen to me. What am I going to tell my daughter, she turns 22 in 2 days and now her dog has died. I feel so abandoned right now.
{{{Traci}}} I know it all seems horrible right now, but things will improve; they have to!
I'm sorry about your loss; it's so hard to lose a pet.
Wow Tracy! You are an awesome woman.
Sorry to here about your DDs boxer
I have been reading through the 10 pages in this thread and one theme keeps jumping out at me. You have worked hard and held his hand for most of your marriage. Paying for his stuff and bringing him to your gym.. Did you ever consider that for most of your marriage you have been the giver? Its a characteristic that is mostly possesed by women who take responsibility. Men can be responsible and love thier wife and marriage but I see more women that are willing/able to nurture than men.
I see that you have taken the right steps for your recovery. You have done everything that you need to do and have the patience of Job. You are experiancing the pain and holding up, bracing yourself, nurturing the right things in life and for yourself to live healthy. You are heading for a success story for you.
You say that you want him back. I say why? If my suspicions are correct he has allways performed at a level below you. Job maybe, IDK, but is he the type of guy who will sit down and ENTHUSIASTCALLY work with you to build up your marriage? I smell a man with low self esteem, something you know about allready and have given him grace with. I also suspect that he is attracted to the other women because she looks up to him. Something that he either isn't capable of earning from you or that you have made it to easy for him so he didn't have to in the past. With his health issues and the probability that his age and lessened testostrizone <sp> his A is probably mostly emotional needs being met by the simple-minded younger women.
I say this to you to give you hope. I also want you to know that if he is going to hide away from what I can only describe as an awesome wife,(you are BTW), than it is his own loss. You cannot make him see what he is missing or nurture him into whatever confidance he is lacking. You have been stellar as a wife. You did not cause this because you loved him too much.
The principals on this site will help you work this out if he will do them with you. He will have to grow up some more, yeah, he is missing out on what could be an awesome chance to build his marriage and therefore himself. I say you let him crash and burn in this A. It will happen and I hope he seeks help. The consequences of his actions will be what drive him to revelation. He might need to be totally alone to realize what he is missing.
I feel like God has abandoned me. I am tired of hurting. I know that isn't doing this to me but I feel like he is letting it happen to me. What am I going to tell my daughter, she turns 22 in 2 days and now her dog has died. I feel so abandoned right now.
Of course God hasn't abandoned you but he is allowing it to happen. He has a better plan for your life and is drawing you near. Please realize that the healthy and responsible life you are leading and the convictions you embrace are catalysts for positive change and growth. Your H was the one who ran away from the marriage. Let God handle him.
BTW I wouldn't need statistics to see that he will regret leaving you. and in the future he will probably want to come back. Don't let him untill you both agree he needs to take responsbility for himself and works to sweep you off your feet.
If you allow him back before he mans up and seeks help for himself you won't be doing anybody any favors. I agree that he should be in the house with you if he will admit he needs help but its up to you to expect his full compliance.
His text message is telling me that he is thinking about you. Either to manipulate you or because he had a fight with OW and things do not look as good. HOwever, you did well not to respond and to keep up plan B. Don't you love it when you decide?
Boy, thinking about the situation your H is...really maybe him leaving you is g-d's way of saying: let's get this man out of this great woman's life so she can accoplish xyz and truly be happy.
I see it htat way. Everything has a purpose and g-d is only trying to tell you this: you need to be alone for a while, just you and figure out who you really are. Then you will be ready to go on with bigger and better plans for your life...which might include a man who deserves you. Imagine being with a wonderful man who meets all your EN without you having to spoon feed him thru a R!
blessing
I'm with atena, in a way. While I am not a religious person, I do believe that every thing happens for a reason.
A.A. teaches us a number of principles that, in times like these are sometimes hard to grasp:
1) Acceptance. The first step in 12-Step recovery programs requires us to admit that we are powerless over (people, places, things), and that our lives are unmanageable. A friend of mine says that if this is hard to understand, try replacing the word "unmanageable" with "unbearable."
2) OUR plans don't work. OUR plans get us where we are. So it's necessary to find something more powerful than ourselves and to work to understand that a greater plan is at work.
3) TURN IT OVER. Some people misinterpret this concept. What this really means is that we BECOME WILLING to have our problems handled by this Higher Power or Greater Plan.
In many ways, MB proposes the same principles: Your WS has taken a course of action that angers, saddens and befuddles you. No matter how you feel, you are powerless to change that person or the current status of the situation. Since we too, are not in a healthy, sane state of mind, we are the LAST people who should be making the decisions on how to handle it. Part of the reason for the situation has been (and I'm ready for the flame-throwers) our inability to recognize what we were not doing to keep things growing and blossoming (in other words, OUR PLAN). So we come here and find people who have FOUND A PLAN. Our next step is to find the willingness to listen to these people and to follow their SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM OF RECOVERY.
I have learned just recently that tribulations teach patience; patience,experience; experience,hope. This is what God is teaching me and everyone else if we let him. I feel better today. I know that I will have ups and downs, good days and bad days, I just have to learn by them and develop patience. I have hope and that is what matters.
DD 21 was told yesterdayy that her dog,Baby, died and she was devastated and through the tears said, "Happy Birthday, to me".
I think that I am doing ok right now and was kind of proud of myself for not answering my WH text message.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs wit a 2 and 3 yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 21yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Yep, you should be very proud of yourself for going thru all this with dignity and strenght and by accepting reality and not fighting it. Acceptance is a powerful tool. When we start being friendly towards events that seem to make no sense we are being friendly to life and life (g-d) knows that we have learned a lesson and can move on. "Difficult situations" become less and less because we not longer label them that way. They are what they are and who are we to judge?
I read somewhere that if now, in this very moment...if all our problems would disappear we will be, in 6 months time, in the same situation we are in now, with the same problems hidden under a different form.
When we fight life we get more of the same because it means we have not learned what we needed to and we have not reached what g-d wants us to reach or be.
We must have faith that what we are going thru has a purpose and a good one indeed.
blessing
Great, now my WH has text me again and wants to know what I have done to get his name off of the loan on the house. There is no way I will be able to refinance the house. My name is connected to his truck, my car, and my youngest daughter's vehicle is in both of our names and I have co-signed on my oldest daughter's car. He can't make me refinance the house and plus we are still married. Why can't he leave me alone?! He has left me alone for 5 1/2 weeks and now he is at it again. I didn't return his text. I am at work and now I am upset and I feel like my nerves are shot. I have no idea what to do except ignore him.
Great, now my WH has text me again and wants to know what I have done to get his name off of the loan on the house. There is no way I will be able to refinance the house. My name is connected to his truck, my car, and my youngest daughter's vehicle is in both of our names and I have co-signed on my oldest daughter's car. He can't make me refinance the house and plus we are still married. Why can't he leave me alone?! He has left me alone for 5 1/2 weeks and now he is at it again. I didn't return his text. I am at work and now I am upset and I feel like my nerves are shot. I have no idea what to do except ignore him.
How did you get him off the loan? DUDE
He is still on the house loan. He wants his name off of it because he trying to get rid of his truck and then in a year he wants to try to get another truck and he wants to be able to finance one on his own. He will not be able to get rid of his truck because he is about $3000 upsidedown on it.
Dude you are hilarious!!!
Hang in there Traci! Plan B 'til the cows come home!
I really hate this. Dude, I really hope you were joking too! My friends here at the hospital think he is just being a d--k and the reason he is doing this is because of the holidays. I just wish he would leave me alone.
Traci,
The holiday theory is probably true that is why you need to stay the course and let him see what he is missing from his decisions. It's not your fault he is where he is. Just stay dark.
I am sorry about your pups. People who are not dog or pet people rarely undestand how losing a pet is like losing a good friend or family member.
Be kind to yourself. Whenever I think "things can not get worse," I think back, and I know "yeah.- they can be worse." Nuf said.
It feels like you are a blow up punching clown with the squeeky nose and sand in the butt. Everthing is bop,squeek (you come back up) and BOP squeek (you come back up)
I find that in instances like you are going through, it almost pays to see youself in the 3rd person. Understand that you are very vunrable>sp? and you need a to take it easy on yourself. How about a treat?
also, when you are at this stage, perspective gets all askew. Small things loom large, and if you get to the point of freak out- take a breather and say "is this really the issue, or is it my projection?"
I find out when I am tired, beat up or sick I get really wound up lately.
Traci,
Have you considered a intermediary while your in Plan B. If WH contacting you upsets you and ruins your day, you may be better off getting a intermediary to intercept the communication. There use to be a thread on intermediary training by Mel but I don't know if it was lost in the crash. I'll have to search.
Gg
I am suppose to be getting a divorce according to my WH but he has done nothing towards that end. Yesterday was the first time I had heard from him in over 5 weeks. I have not answered any of his texts. He is only suppose to email me and that is suppose to be about the divorce only. I know that things could be worse. I think the reason I am reacting to todays text is because I am still upset about Baby's death yesterday. I just don't understand why he is starting up again after over 5 weeks of nothing. I really don't want this divorce but it is easier to give him what he wants and to protect myself at the same time. I have heard nothing about the divorce even if I do I am not going to refinance the house. I am not going to make it easy for him. If he wants out he is going to have to make it easy for me. He can find out about gettng off of the house loan and he has to guarantee that my interest rate will not go up and my payments will notgo up. I am so tired of everything right now. It is just easier to ignore him. What can he do to me? Screw around on me-done that. Leave me-done that. Divorce me-trying to do that or so he says. Anything else he needs a lawyer and he can't afford that.
After writing here over an hour and a half ago and writng an email to a friend, I started going off about WH to said friend and then my mother called to see how I was doing. She was worried about me from earlier and I just went off about WH again. I was saying things I have never said before and words that have never came out of my mouth before. I was PISSED! I was so mad I couldn't believe it. My mother just listened to me rant and rave about WH. She was laughing her butt off. I told her he was an idiot and that it would just feel good to be sitting on his chest with my hands around his throat choking him and banging his head into the ground to knock some sense into him. I also said that his diabetes will get out of control and that his you know what(not the words I said) would not work. I also I don't care what anybody says or thinks, but I still want him back even though I am mad at the moment. My mother said she wasn't worried about me right now because if I am mad then at least I am not depressed. I said I cannot see how he thinks I can refinance the house with me attached to all these vehicles. I said he is not thinking and she said that was his problem, he was thinking with the wrong h--d. I am still mad.
Traci, you still need an intermediary. Why would you want to deal with this? It upsets you and it is not worth your energy. He is all over the place. He is in a mess really. Diabetic, probably close to impotence due to the illness, no money, OW much younger and eager for both sex and $, angry, confused...He is about ready to explode. He is drawning and he is dragging you down with him.
Have an intermediary answer all his email. Write him a plan B letter if you have not done so yet and indicate the email of an intermediary he can work with.
Continue not answering anything till you get the intermediary. He is like a child having a number of fits a day to get your attention. IMO something is stirring inside of him....it is key for you now to keep totally dark!
Yes, they only think with the wrong head, that is also what my mom told me yesterday on the phone. I was so mad and started venting with her about H and how stupid he is to do what he is doing...but he is doing it. That is the point. That is what they want now, but they are certainly not using their brains.
Lets see how this turns out.
Blessings
After being so mad last night I feel great this morning. I guess I needed to get mad. I actually feel great and I am very happy right now. Being off of the lexapro has really helped. I don't feel numb anymore nor do I feel like I am in a fog. I can actually feel now and I can get angry. Because of everything that I now have a clear plan of action. I will continue to ignore all his texts and will only answer his emails about the divorce only. If he wants off of the house loan he will have to figure that out himself and I don't want to have to pay anymore than I do now a month and I am not going to add any more years to the loan either. If he wants to be stupid, so be it. The house is worth less than I owe on it so unless he wants to pay the difference, the closing costs and the realtor costs which will probably be $25000 total he can go for it and we all know that he doesn't have that kind of money. If he did he wouldn't be harassing me about it. I am not going to worry about anything and I am just going to enjoy my daughters and my family for Christmas. WH can just kiss my butt.
Traci, atta girl! Yes, that is the right attitude in my opinion.
Tell me if this is normal: in plan B now for 3 months. I exposed to the world. H never contacted me not even thru the intermediary. He acts as if I never existed.
Also, he is barely in touch with our son by email.
Son is coming for xmas and is spending it with me. H has not contacted son re: xmas plans.
H spends all his free time with OW. We work together and now literally all the people at work know. He smiles and is the usual people pleaser as if there is nothing wrong with what he is doing. Of course he does not know the level of detail people at work know. They know everything. He might be thinking they only know we are separated...but no they kknow he has OW and that OW was around when we were still together...they know. But of course no co-worker is going to confront him with it...
Is it normal for the WS to have absolutely no urge to contact BS even to just insult her? How can he not care to this extent!
Am I that un-worthed?
blessings
My WH wanted to be friends and I didn't. My counselor said that was to leave the door open for them to come back whether they realized it or not. My WH knows that I am a lot better woman than that piece of trash he is with and he is doing everything he can so to rationalize what he is doing. I know and you know that we are worth so much more and no matter what we have done in the past we did not deserve what has happened to us and no one does. Our WS know that they can not insult us becasue they have already insulted us in the worse way they can. I think the reason my WH has not contacted me until recently is becasue he wants me to make the first move and I refuse to. I think your WH and mine do care about us but to do anything about it is to admit they were wrong and they cannot do that. Be strong Atena, I am finally learning to do that and it feels great. In the end no matter the outcome we will win.
My WH knows that I am a lot better woman than that piece of trash he is with and he is doing everything he can so to rationalize what he is doing. I know and you know that we are worth so much more and no matter what we have done in the past we did not deserve what has happened to us and no one does.
Awesome yes and..
She was worried about me from earlier and I just went off about WH again. I was saying things I have never said before and words that have never came out of my mouth before. I was PISSED! I was so mad I couldn't believe it. My mother just listened to me rant and rave about WH. She was laughing her butt off. I told her he was an idiot and that it would just feel good to be sitting on his chest with my hands around his throat ......
... My mother said she wasn't worried about me right now because if I am mad then at least I am not depressed. ... I am still mad.
She sounds like a wise woman
I also agree that you NEED an intermediary. Let a lawyer deal with the financial part concerning your interest rate and find someone to be your go-between with communication of any sort.
Let him get his DS needs from someone else.
thank you Traci. Yes, you are right they have already insulted us and know what they are doing. My H knows better and if he insulted me or contacted me just for that he knows it will go straight to our son.
Plus, he is not the type who likes to argue or start anything. He hates confrontation and this NC and plan B situation for him is pure heaven. A dream come true. He is not asked to do anything by me, nor does he have to take care of our appartment since he thinks I live in it (i do not, but I want him out of there). He pays his part of the mortgage and the bills and has plenty of money for himself.
He needs nothing, really. He believes our son is mature enough to take care of himself at college and his parents are taking care of his tuition. He has not debts except the house loan. He is in great shape and good looking and healthy at 50. He has OW 15 years younger.
Why would he look for me?
Maybe plan B is too easy on him? Any suggestions?
blessings
Traci, so sorry to hear about your dog. I agree--the dog is like a member of the family and Baby's death must hurt you all. I hope she had a great life with you and DDs.
Forget about the worthless WH for right now. I'm sure he feels terribly inferior to you, but he's got his young piece right now, so he doesn't care if it stinks like the trash it is.
Continue to live your life.
he's got his young piece right now, so he doesn't care if it stinks like the trash it is.
I loved this.
Boy, I really do not know what she finds in your H! She is so young and he is so messed up! Soon if not already, he must be having impotence problems.
Tracy, he will not leave her, but she might leave him soon, I am pretty sure of that. No $ and no sex and years of difference between them.
Then he will be looking for you....
Mine has OW with 2 very challenging kids. If her kids are imposed on him he might leave her...but she will never leave him. My H has a good job and he is good looking and intellingent. She has definately stepped up 1000 times by seeing him.
blessings
I think that eventually my WH will see things as they truely are but by then it will be too late. My WH knew he had a good thing with me for over 21yrs. I am smart and hard working with a great personality and a great sense of humor. I am also very pretty and loving. I don't even require very much of anything. If there is something I want I will eventually work towards getting it even if it takes years. I am actually very low maintenance with him being high maintenance so it balanced out okay. My WH is also very hard working and smart(except right now) with a wicked sense of humor and good looking. The only thing is he never went to college even with my encouragement. He actually worked his way up in management and got several certifications in his field plus he was a genius on the computer. It is funny, the OW just got her GED last year and isn't going anywhere. I am not knocking her for getting a GED but she isn't even trying to improve herself. She thought she was getting a man with money and it was me who was making all the money. Now my WH makes half of what he use to make because he lost his job because of her. She thinks that since he is going into business with his friends in pwst control he will be making lots of money but he won't because his friends were only certified in lawns and my H is certified in all three areas of pest control and it will take years to make what he was making before he lost his job. He still won't be able to afford what he had before because I am the one who paid for the house and the vehicles and his allowance.
Spent the afternoon with my oldest daughter since it was her 22nd birthday. She hates her dad not only because of what he did to me and our family but becasue he moved in with the OW. When I told her that he wanted to know if I had done anything to get him off of the mortgage she said there was no way he could come off of it because of all the vehicles. She is way smarter than her dad. Had a great afternoon with her. Will spend tomorrow with both of my girls. They are my support.
Atena, I know you said that the OW has stepped up with your husband, the OW in my casehas a perfectly good and loving husband who has gone to college and works for a major power company here in Florida and makes a lot more money than my H. The OWH family has money and my H's family doesn't so I would say she has definitely down graded. I am not saying my H is a loser but he is old enough to be her father with health problems and has no money. Heck, I have a thoracic surgeon who is 16-18 yrs older than me who has MONEY and wants me to be his girlfriend. I am not interested because he is too old for me and I am about to be 45 in less than 3 months and I don't want to be with someone that much older than me who will have health problems long before I do.
Good luck, Atena
Hand in there Traci..Don't let this take you down..DUDE
I know that this is cliche but "I am woman, hear me roar!" I actually feel better than I have in months. I am happy. I feel great especially since I know what I am going to do and not do. MY WH can BITE ME! Like I said before, I am the winner no matter what the outcome and he can be a winner too but only in one way.
MY WH can BITE ME!
I want to make a plaque and sell it. Hmmm...first dibs! (I'll cut you in on the profits, Traci!)
LOL. You can have all the profits, Cat, and do something for yourself. I am learning to do that again and it feels great. Looking at jeans at Buckle.com. They are not cheap but they are comfortable and look great. I will probably wait until I lose the 20# that I gained on lexapro. I will have to steal my jeans back from my DD 19. I have noticed my good jeans on her butt lately and unfortunately they look better on her than me. She is 4 inches taller than me and doesn't have to wear heels with them but then she steals my heels too.
Had a chance to work overtime today but I would rather spend time with my DDs. They wouldn't have minded because I would have more money for myself but I didn't care.
Getting everything together for Christmas so the house will look great for my parents getting here next week. Told my Mom that my bedroom is ripped apart because I am trying to finish getting it painted and rearrange the furniture at the same time. Have over half of it done and will have it finished tonight and all I have left is to shampoo the carpet. Mom was messing with me saying that everything had to be neat and clean and perfect. I told her she better stay at home then. It feels great to be laughing and joking again. It beats the alternative.
Yeah, When ya lose the 20# and get back in your old jeans, take a picture of yur butt and if WH contacts you have it say "bite this" .. sorry it was too funny. I suppose that we must play nice.
LOL. You can have all the profits, Cat, and do something for yourself. I am learning to do that again and it feels great. Looking at jeans at Buckle.com. They are not cheap but they are comfortable and look great. I will probably wait until I lose the 20# that I gained on lexapro. I will have to steal my jeans back from my DD 19. I have noticed my good jeans on her butt lately and unfortunately they look better on her than me. She is 4 inches taller than me and doesn't have to wear heels with them but then she steals my heels too.
Had a chance to work overtime today but I would rather spend time with my DDs. They wouldn't have minded because I would have more money for myself but I didn't care.
Getting everything together for Christmas so the house will look great for my parents getting here next week. Told my Mom that my bedroom is ripped apart because I am trying to finish getting it painted and rearrange the furniture at the same time. Have over half of it done and will have it finished tonight and all I have left is to shampoo the carpet. Mom was messing with me saying that everything had to be neat and clean and perfect. I told her she better stay at home then. It feels great to be laughing and joking again. It beats the alternative.
You're doing well, I think. Just let it go. Count this dude out of your life! You sound like a fun person. Do not let this take you down! DUDE
Speaking of sounding like a fun person, I just have to share this with someone; it was on NPR yesterday. One of those laugh til I cry/bawl my eyes out stories (but mostly laugh):
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121335690A woman who has had multiple cancers, but chooses to laugh. Listen to the story, if you can - so much more poignant.
Loved that article,Cat. That woman is so brave and great. She has been through more than I will and keeps on going and laughing. If she can do it we all can. She is an inspiration to all of us, it makes me feel that losing my husband wasn't so bad after all considering what she has been through.
Actually telling my WH to bite me was my favorite thing to say to him because he didn't like it. Think I will lose 30# and tell him don't you wish you could bite this now!
I just wanted to share this:
We will still have our ups and downs. Day when we feel better and days when we do not. The only way to overcome pain is to go thru it and not around it. We must feel it and then move on.
I have to say that Eckhart Tolle's books are what got me thru the most difficult year in my life so far...
When H turned into an alien and did not even want to spend a minute with me...when he was cold and distant...when I sat next to him and he will stand up and leave....when he already was seeing OW and I did not know and warned him about her and he told me I drove him crazy with my jelousy...! Those books really made me stay focused on the moment. On that open space we have inside of us that does not change in spite of everything changing. That pocket of stillness that brings you some peace.
Affairs are not a recipe for happiness for the WS. THey represent an addiction to another person. According to Tolle (I am quoting from the Power of Now)
"Every addiction starts with pain and ends with pain. Whatever substance you are addicted to (including OP) you are using something or somebody to cover up your pain. That is why, after the initial euphoria has passed,there is so much unhapiness, so much pain in intimate relationships"
"Every addiction reaches a point where it does not work for you anymore and then you feel the pain more intensily that ever"
An A is like a drug: "you are on a high when the drug is available but invariably there comes a time when the drug no longer works for you.When those painful feeling reappear, you feel them even more strongly than before and what is more you now percive your partner (in our case BS before the A and OP when the fog starts lifting at the end of the A) as the cause of those feelings"
We all know that what is real is the our H are not M material. They are fogged up and we would have to walk on egg shells if we were to be with them now. For fear of losing them again...when they are not doing anything to make themselves better people. They brought us so much pain and that they will have to feel it themselves at some point.
blessing
It is funny how many people have told that they have been in my shoes and everyone of them has either reconciled or told their WH so sorry, too bad. One person told me her XH married the OW and came back 3 months later and told her he made a big mistake and wish he had never done it. She told him you wanted this so fast and you got it. She never took him back.
People have told me the same thing, Traci. The older woman down the street said it happened to her -- at 25 years of marriage. And she said it took her about 5 years before she felt ready to move on -- which she did -- with H#2.
She said he's been a blessing... much better than H#1.
Perhaps we got the best out of our H's while we had them. OW can have them at their worse. And "their worse" is not what we want or need. Just like Atena says, if we had them around today, we'd be walking on eggshells. Believe me, that was last Christmas for me. One year past d-day and him going back and forth for all of 2008. He finally made a decision he could keep -- to walk out two days after Christmas -- and move in permanently with OW and her kids. And he's still there today and the D is in process.
Is WH happy? I don't think so since the addiction is ruling his life. The appearance of being happy is much differnce than actually being happy. Again, Athena's insight is right. When reality hits, the unhappiness will be there -- day in and day out.
Just keep your character and values and morals true, Traci, for you and your kids.
I have decided to sell off aall of my husband's stuff and that includes his rifles and his hand gun. I told him to come get them and he has refused to and DD 21 needs money for college and she comes first. I have already had one person want the handgun and one wanting the most expensive rifle so that will take care of her tuition. I am going to open up my garage and sell all of his tools. I had sent an email and text him too about this and saved them and he refused to come get them. I told him I would sell hs stuff and he just thinks I won't and I would like to park my car in the garage.
I have decided to sell off aall of my husband's stuff and that includes his rifles and his hand gun. I told him to come get them and he has refused to and DD 21 needs money for college and she comes first. I have already had one person want the handgun and one wanting the most expensive rifle so that will take care of her tuition. I am going to open up my garage and sell all of his tools. I had sent an email and text him too about this and saved them and he refused to come get them. I told him I would sell hs stuff and he just thinks I won't and I would like to park my car in the garage.
Maybe we should have a thread for selling off all the waywards crap on here. Sort of like an EBAY for the Betrayed. I'd be interested in the rifles? DUDE
A friend of mine came around where I work at and found out that WH had text me and what he text me about on Sunday and Monday. He text me about my internet service and did I want him to come over and look at it and about getting him off of the mortgage. She has been in my shoes and is back with her H on her terms. She thinks my WH is sending out feelers and that things are not all that grand in fantasy land. I think that it is just a coincidence.
I have decided to sell off aall of my husband's stuff and that includes his rifles and his hand gun. I told him to come get them and he has refused to and DD 21 needs money for college and she comes first. I have already had one person want the handgun and one wanting the most expensive rifle so that will take care of her tuition. I am going to open up my garage and sell all of his tools. I had sent an email and text him too about this and saved them and he refused to come get them. I told him I would sell hs stuff and he just thinks I won't and I would like to park my car in the garage.
We had a neighborhood garage sale a few years ago, and the family on the corner was having one, so my H and I went over to see what they had (I had seen some patio chairs from across the street). They had 5 kids; they were getting a divorce; I think he had an affair, but no one would confirm it, lol. She was selling stuff like crazy! I missed out on a patio set worth $1000 that she sold for $100. Crazy sales. Anyway, while we were there, her husband showed up. He started screaming at her 'what are you doing? that's MY stuff!'
She just smiled at him and said 'I told you to get your stuff out, and you refused. So it's
my stuff now. And I want it out.'
Craziest thing.
That is how I feel, he refused to get his stuff and now it is mine to do what I want to as I please.
Back about people thinking my WH is sending out feelers and me thinking it is a coincidence, I hope is sending out feelers. I am quite glad he cannot not afford to pay for a divorce because that gives more time for him to realize he made a mistake. I did ask God for chaos, financial distress and anything to prevent him from continuing in his affair and to do whatever to prevent my divorce. I do not and never wanted a divorce. I have always wanted to reconcile but I am smart enough not to look to deeply into him texting me.
Hi Tracy
I would be careful about selling his guns, but not because they are "his". You need to check and make sure it's okay in your state to do a private sale of fire arms.
Second, about this:
and about getting him off of the mortgage
if you live in a community property state, he can't get off the mortgage without a "Quit Claim Deed" and that requires a D decree that is in the process. In a community property state, he is "on" the mortgage as your spouse, even if his name isn't on it.
Too bad for him....
Hang in there-
Just a suggestion -- You said you told him to pick up his stuff or you'd get rid of it, right?
You might need something a little more "official" so... down the line... you don't have to owe him money.
Perhaps send an email that you want his stuff out of the garage by a specific date at this time. He is to make arrangements via IM for you to open the garage. If you do not hear from him by a specific date, he will forfeit the items to you and you will dispose of them at your discretion (either by selling or donating them).
If you really want him back, best not to piss him off. Just let him know that he needs to get all his stuff because he really can't have one foot in and one foot out.
My WH has been gone a year and I still have his stuff here -- well, some of his stuff here. He told his attorney that he only wants a few things -- including the gun safe. Yes, I can tell him that he needs to remove it by a specific date; however, since he's getting further and further in debt, I think its best to hold onto items of value since I may be keeping/selling them in the end.
If your H is short on cash, don't let him have the valuable stuff -- even if it's his. Keep it since you never know when you might need to negotatiate something.
I need the money for DD's tuition so I have no choice but to sell stuff and I had already told him to get his stuff out by a certain time and he didn't. I still have his 2 dogs here and he won't get them because he would have to pay a deposit or she would and they can't afford that. I can sell the guns to anyone who has a concealed weapons license and most everyone I know has one. I am only going to sell about 2 or 3 of his guns. I will sell all the stuff in the garage though. He has abandoned me and his stuff and his dogs. I could charge him $10/day per dog and right now that is around $3000. I also figured that I would have to get a Quit claim deed signed by him and then we would have to be divorced and I told him that but he wouldn't listen. Heck, he hasn't even started on the divorce paperwork. It took me less than 30 min to fill it out and that was everything. It is suppose to be a simplified dissolution of marriage and that is not hard to do. I am just glad he hasn't done anything. He might be waiting til the beginning of the year to file his taxes and hope he gets money back but he is in for abig surprise. He cashed in the rest of his retirement which wasn't much so he will have to pay extra taxes now. I on the other hand will be able to claim both girls and the house on the taxes. I will have mine filled out before the end of January. I will filing married and separate and itemizing so I will get back a chunk of money and he will have to pay. I am actually looking forward to that.
I can sell the guns to anyone who has a concealed weapons license and most everyone I know has one.
Now that's
my kind of state! The only thing better is "open carry" states like Virginia.
We have one of those "adopt-a-highway" programs here, and one stretch of road has been adopted by the
open carry organization. It's quite something to watch a group of civilians, packing heat, cleaning up the roadway...
Open carry??
I live in VA. What is this 'open carry'?
Virginia is a "gold star" open carry state. In brief, what that means is that any citizen can carry a firearm in plain view without the need of a permit. Concealed handguns still require a permit.
See
http://opencarry.orgTheir motto is "a right unexercised, is a right lost."
It's quite something to watch a group of civilians, packing heat, cleaning up the roadway...
Lol
He is at it again. I get a text on my phone that said, "Dear homeowner, if yo are struggling to make your mortgage payment or have a recent hardship, a modification can help. Respond(yes) to learn more about this." I sent a text to block this number. I have never received anything before and since he text me about the mortgage on Monday he had to have been the one to forward this from his phone when he checked his email or looked it up on his blackberry.
Virginia is a "gold star" open carry state. In brief, what that means is that any citizen can carry a firearm in plain view without the need of a permit. Concealed handguns still require a permit.
See
http://opencarry.orgTheir motto is "a right unexercised, is a right lost."
Please don't excercise this RIGHT at a TREE TRIMMING party. You have no idea what could break out at events like that. They are more dangerous than RAVES from what I hear..DUDE
Virginia is a "gold star" open carry state. In brief, what that means is that any citizen can carry a firearm in plain view without the need of a permit. Concealed handguns still require a permit.
See
http://opencarry.orgTheir motto is "a right unexercised, is a right lost."
Please don't excercise this RIGHT at a TREE TRIMMING party. You have no idea what could break out at events like that. They are more dangerous than RAVES from what I hear..DUDE
Probably no tree-trimming party. Weather reports are calling for 12" - 15" of snow beginning tonight. If I run out of firewood, I may have a "tree burning" event, though!
Looks like I was wrong and WH did not send that text to my phone. One of my friends got the same message on her phone at the same time. I got upset for no reason, but I wouldn't have if he hadn't sent me that message on Monday. Now I am a little weepy at work. I feel awful. I know that I will have days like this but it doesn't make me feel any better. Right now I feel lost and hopeless. I just don't know what to do. Christmas Day will be exactly 5 months since my WH left me. I will be fine. My parents will be here and I will be at work at the hospital that day so I will have plenty of support. I will be off Christmas Eve and 3 days after Christmas.
I have decided to sell off aall of my husband's stuff and that includes his rifles and his hand gun. I told him to come get them and he has refused to and DD 21 needs money for college and she comes first. I have already had one person want the handgun and one wanting the most expensive rifle so that will take care of her tuition. I am going to open up my garage and sell all of his tools. I had sent an email and text him too about this and saved them and he refused to come get them. I told him I would sell hs stuff and he just thinks I won't and I would like to park my car in the garage.
Maybe we should have a thread for selling off all the waywards crap on here. Sort of like an EBAY for the Betrayed. I'd be interested in the rifles? DUDE
Yeah, and we can call it "E-TRAYED"........
I have decided to sell off aall of my husband's stuff and that includes his rifles and his hand gun. I told him to come get them and he has refused to and DD 21 needs money for college and she comes first. I have already had one person want the handgun and one wanting the most expensive rifle so that will take care of her tuition. I am going to open up my garage and sell all of his tools. I had sent an email and text him too about this and saved them and he refused to come get them. I told him I would sell hs stuff and he just thinks I won't and I would like to park my car in the garage.
Maybe we should have a thread for selling off all the waywards crap on here. Sort of like an EBAY for the Betrayed. I'd be interested in the rifles? DUDE
Yeah, and we can call it "E-TRAYED"........
I like it! Maybe I've stumbled accross someone else cool on here. THANK GOD! DUDE
I like it! Maybe I've stumbled accross someone else cool on here. THANK GOD! DUDE
And who said nothing good can come from an affair???
For a mere ten bucks,
www.etrayed.com is ALL MINE!!!!! I'm not joking. I just went and registered it this morning.
Although my marital sitch requires surgery, it's nice to know my entrepreneurial spirit is alive and kicking.......
Dude, you want in on halves of the gazillion bucks I'm sure to make off of this deal????
P.S. Traci, sorry for the T/J.
.....Google.com is bidding on the newly formed "ETrayed .com" as was reported on wall street this week...
I like it! Maybe I've stumbled accross someone else cool on here. THANK GOD! DUDE
And who said nothing good can come from an affair???
For a mere ten bucks,
www.etrayed.com is ALL MINE!!!!! I'm not joking. I just went and registered it this morning.
Although my marital sitch requires surgery, it's nice to know my entrepreneurial spirit is alive and kicking.......
Dude, you want in on halves of the gazillion bucks I'm sure to make off of this deal????
P.S. Traci, sorry for the T/J.
Lets do it! Maybe we get betrayed, and STRIKE IT RICH whining about it! Then who gives a *+%*, RIGHT? DUDE
No has to say they are sorry onhere for what they especially to me. No one here could ever hurt as bad as I have already been hurt and am hurting now. As I told my friend today, I don't hate my life, just what hate what happened to it. All I want to do right now is cry. I dont think it has anything to do with the holidays but more to do with my emotional upheaval.
I'ld be interested in the rifles as well! No dirty underwear though...
No has to say they are sorry onhere for what they especially to me. No one here could ever hurt as bad as I have already been hurt and am hurting now. As I told my friend today, I don't hate my life, just what hate what happened to it. All I want to do right now is cry. I dont think it has anything to do with the holidays but more to do with my emotional upheaval.
You can rise above this! Don't let it get you down. You can shake betrayal. I've almost fully healed and its been about 18 months..DUDE
No has to say they are sorry onhere for what they especially to me. No one here could ever hurt as bad as I have already been hurt and am hurting now. As I told my friend today, I don't hate my life, just what hate what happened to it. All I want to do right now is cry. I dont think it has anything to do with the holidays but more to do with my emotional upheaval.
Hi Traci,
When I read your story, one thing that's pretty consistent is your strength, your confidence, and a clear sense of direction. This is just a bad patch. We've all experienced them in the past, and we'll all see them again at some point in the future.
You'll get through this. Don't ever lose sight of that. You have a lot to be thankful for. You know that.
Hang tough, Traci.
TB
Don't feel any better today. At least I am not weepy right now. Did cry a lot last night. Finished getting the border down in my bedroom and now all I have left to paint is a little bit behind my king size bed. I will need help getting that moved and then I will move the bed to another wall and rearrange the other furniture. I will be finished by Tuesdy night with everything including shampooing the carpet. My parents willbe here Wednesday. I'll have the rest of the house cleaned and smelling good by then too. Right now I just feel like giving up and I feel like my WH will get his divorce and marry the OW and they will have a child together and I will never get him back.
Sorry you are feeling so bad right now
It will pass..I know that it feels like it won't but it will. Be patient with yourself. You are awesome
I know this will pass but sure hate it now. Sometimes I would just like to sit on his chest and put my hands around his throat and strangle him while I am beating his head into the ground trying to knock some sense into him. The visual is too great for words. I just hate feeling like this and wish he is feeling bad too but I know that isn't happening. He is so HAPPY. He can bite me too.
It will pass but it takes time. As I once read on this board, you know things are better when you stop blowing your nose in your sheets. I spent many hours in bed sobbing... using the sheet to wipe my eyes and nose when the tissue box was empty. My bedstand was literally covered in wet Kleenex. I was amazed that a person could cry that much... that I COULD CRY THAT MUCH.
We hate them... we love them, but we hate them. We hate them for doing this to US. We've been loyal, and loving and life-giving and generous -- And OW -- she's an interloper who took our Hs for sport. Why? Because she could. And we're left holding down the fort and redecorating the bedroom and getting the house ready for visitors and Christmas. And we're trying to make everything "OK." Trying to make sure it appears to be a normal Christmas for the kids and our family and ourselves.
It's hard. This affair stuff is not for wussies. I wouldn't put this stress and strain on anyone else. Be thankful that you are a strong and capable woman who can deal with this. Because you CAN and you WILL because you have no other choice.
So be the best mom and daughter and sister and friend that you can be at the moment. If the house isn't perfect, who cares. If Christmas isn't exactly the same, who cares. Just plow ahead. You can't go back. Hard to not dwell on the past conversations or moments. But you have to move ahead.
Just know that you are not alone. There are many, many of us doing the same thing you are day in and day out.
You will be OK, Traci. YOU WILL.
I'm off to buy Christmas presents because that is what I WANT to do...
Feeling better now. Chocolate does cure most things for a while. Have a Christmas party to go to tonight after work. Plan on staying for a few hours since I have to work tomorrow. work has been a little slow lately even if we have been full in CVICU. I have been able to get my hours and everything has just been routine. Sometimes it has been boring but I don't care. Just glad to be working after about 6 months of only working about 24hrs a week. If it wasn't for my 2nd job I would have been unable to pay my bills. I am now able to pay for everything and have money left over. I am now able to pay cash for Christmas and it is nice. Plus I had to buy 2 new tires for my car and they are not cheap.
I'm so bad tonight at remembering quotes but there is one about when something bad happens it makes us stronger. Anyway - Traci - you have a lot going for you and you are going to be fine (with or w/o WS). The worst are the first months (for me the first six months). Eventually it will get better and Plan B will help because it separates you from his drama.
gg
Enjoyed my party last night even though I only stayed about 2 hours. Got half lit and then went home and started trying to move my armoir to a different wall from the middle of the bedroom. Most of my bedroom furniture is in the middle of the bedroom. Nothing funnier than a half lit woman in scrubs trying to move a large armoir(luckily it was empty). Tomorrow my youngest daughter is going to help me move my bed. Got a text from DD 19 today with a picture of a cute puppy in her lap. Text back who's puppy, figuring it was DD now 22. I was right. I said I don't think so and was told it was going to stay at daughter's boyfriends's place. She is living with him at the moment becasue it is convient to work and school. I told them that I know that eventually it will land up at my house and the puppy is half german Shepard, 1/4 pit bull and 1/4 greyhound. It will be huge when it grows up.
Traci, glad to hear you enjoyed your party....we BS' spend a lot of time sad and depressed so we need to offset that as much as we can with doing things that make us happy....
I just want everyone to know that I only had one drink last night but I am a a light weight as my oldest daughter likes to say. Just respond to that comment that she should be proud that I am a light weight and not a drunk/alcoholic. I just don't normally drink. Well at least I am a cheap date. Noticed that I can't get either DD to call me back to discuss the puppy issue. Probably will be introduced to the new "grandchild" tomorrow. I am so glad I feel better today after the rotten day I had on Friday. I have just 2 more things to get for my DDs for Christmas and just some stocking stuffers for the girls. I think I will get my Boston Terrier a sweater for Christmas, she keeps acting cold when I come home from work and the house is comfortable.
I am a nervous wreck now. As I was getting ready to leave the hospital I got a phone call from my WH(I have a special ring tone just for him). I did not answer it. It went to voicemail. There was a message and I had to check it and it was just background noise. No voices at all and I could hear his truck dinging and other noises. I was shaking because I was a little scared and a lot nervous. All I could think of was he was at my home. I wasn't fooling myself into thinking he was coming home. This call was not an accident because you have to unlock the phone to dial it. I could also hear his breathing. I don't know what to do. When I got home my DD 19 had left the internet up under her name and he was on too,but when I go on I don't see him. He has got it to where he doesn't show up on my list. I don't care. I was shaking until I got home.
((Traci))
Just as you misinterpreted the "save your mortgage"text message (I get those all the time, btw!), it's possible this is a butt-dial.
Seriously.
I have a lock on my phone, but sometimes I forget to lock it when I hang up and I end up butt dialing someone. There's nothing on this message that makes me think it's anything but an accidental dial.
H will probably be mortified when he realizes he did this--not knowing what he said, etc., while the phone was recording
Now I know what to tell my H when I get all those phone calls from him!
My dau has a lock on her celly and STILL butt dials me all the dern time.
(((Traci)))
The only way I can butt dial is if I just hung up the phone. Everytime I want to call someone I have to unlock mine. It locks automatically. My WH phone is the same and he keeps it in his hip case. He has never butt dialed me or anyone else I know. Well, if he did butt dial me at least he still has me on speed dial and since he is a creature of habit I bet he didn't change the speed dial number which means that voice mail is #1 and I am #2 on his phone. Wonder if OW knows this. I know something else, if OW was with him last night they were not talking.
oh well, I am going to finish my bedroom today and clean the house in preparation of my parents coming her in 2 days.
I keep my cell in a hip case and I lock it, but if I'm bending over in the car to get something under the seat, I guess you could call it a love-handle dial, cuz I've done it. Mine usually locks automatically, but if I'm texting and I close it while the text is still sending, it doesn't lock.
Basically, there are a million reasons why this could have happened. He didn't threaten you or anything, so don't worry about it. You have other things to keep your focus on!!!
Look in the mirror and smile at yourself, for starters!!!!!
Besides the butt/hip/lovehandle dialing incident, you sound like your doin great.
Did you consider advertizing.."Will move furniture for a beer" anywhere ?
Glad your a lightwieght drinker and heavyweight fighter for yourself
I got finished painting my bedroom and got the furniture where I want it. Had to take my bed completely apart to move it and the headboard still weighs about 75# and is huge. I almost landed under it. It actually fell back on the wall and I had to get under it and push it back up. All I could think was I am glad that all my insurance money is left to my 2 daughters and WH would be left with paying the house and he couldn't make the payments and would lose it. He would have to make my car payments too. Boy, he would be so screwed if I die. Except for the dying part I would enjoy all of that. All I have left to do is shampoo the carpet.
Going to the movies tomorrow with a friend of mine to see AVATAR. Can't wait to go. Going to see it in 3-D and heard that some of the scenes an make you nauseous.
Good for you for getting all that done. Do not plan on dying to make H miserable. Please!
Have fun at the movies!
blessing
Going to the movies tomorrow with a friend of mine to see AVATAR. Can't wait to go. Going to see it in 3-D and heard that some of the scenes an make you nauseous.
You might want to check out
this article.
Thanks Fred, for the article, I will try that out at the movies. I also don't plan on dying to make WH miserable, Atena, I think just being here is enough for now. If I could figure out a way to make his life a living h--l without getting caught I would, but I guess just being here and doing great is enough for now. I bet it gets his goat that I don't answer any of his texts or calls.
Tracy, don't count on H having any feelings about us. They picked OW remember? The fact that we do not communicate with them is a relief for them. It might irritate your H you do not answer his messages, but still he is with OW.
A friend of mine whose H had an A and R after 5 years said that H felt relieved when she left him after finding out he was having A. He admitted it to her with shame, but he said: yes, when you left I felt a great sense of freedom and relief, I was finally able to see OW whenever I wanted without having to lie, sneak and pretend. I no longer had to deal with you and your moods and problems. It felt good till it didn't anymore. Then I knew I made a mistake.
But it took him more than a year to call her back with an excuse and tell her he made a mistake. She did not take him back right away. They dated for a while. Then she moved to another city. They kept in touch. Finally after a total of 5 years after D day they moved back in together. They have no kids and she is 12 years older than he is. You never know.
However not all M R so do not count on karma or h*ll for H.
We have to think they are no longer part of our life and live accordingly.
blessings
The only problem is, Atena, is that he wants to stay in touch and be friends and I didn't. He would be just happy to have me around. He is still trying or he wouldn't have text me about coming over to look at my internet. I am the one who cut off all contact with WH not him and it pissed him off when I did.
> it pissed him off when I did.
Cos you denied him his fantasy of having two women dote upon him.
WAHHHH!
You mean Traci! Taking away his cake like that!
My WH also wanted to be "friends", but I think it was more for the fact that his guilt would be releived in some way, like "Look BS is over it, so everyone else can get over it too." His ultimate fantasy was to live down in our basement, still seeing OW but with his family upstairs, one big happy family."
I used to think the "we can still be friends" line was just something women used to ease the pain of a break up. Now I see it for what it really is: A con job.
If my M winds up in a D, I will be in Plan B for the rest of our lives.
My WH also wanted to be "friends", but I think it was more for the fact that his guilt would be releived in some way, like "Look BS is over it, so everyone else can get over it too." His ultimate fantasy was to live down in our basement, still seeing OW but with his family upstairs, one big happy family."
I was SO thankful to spell this out to WW -- and for the new folks out there, DISPEL the fantasy divorce/separation EARLY. Once I felt that it had been clearly communicated, I wasn't worried about Plan A stuff being MISINTERPRETED as "TB is fine with all of this going forward -- he's being nice to me, and considerate."
It could potentially be rebutted with, "It's too bad you're so angry" crud, but we have seen and heard far too many examples/reoommendations from experienced, intelligent, and thought-provoking MB old-timers regarding the misnomer about "being good friends" with an ex.
And yes, it's about the WS relieving guilt. And no, that ain't in my job description.....
Thanks,
TB
I told WH that as long as he was with her that we couldn't be friends. He will finally realize he lost his best friend-me and also she is not his friend. Too bad. He will also realize that he will come in 3rd place with her because her kids and her will be 1st and 2nd. I always put my WH and children 1st and I was always last. No more, I am always going to be 1st now and my children are grown and don't need me as much but there will be times they will 1st and I will be 2nd.
Felt a little blue today, I am leaving everything in God's hands and I know He will take care of me. He has given me plenty of signs that everything is going to be okay. The best one was "Don't give up!" in big letters on a web site I went to after I asked God for a sign. Sometimes I feel like giving up but I don't because of that and a few other things I have received from Him. It is hard but coming helps me a lot.
Went to see the AVATAR at the theater and it is awesome. Loved it and recommend it to others. Watched it in 3-D and did not get sick or get a headache. If is was blurred I just concentrated on anything that was clear and sharp. Jumped a few times because of something jumping out at you or falling.
Yep, Tracy, hang in there. Boy your H is so messed up..of course I have no crystal ball, but I can see him a few months or even a year down the line coming back to you telling you he want to work on M.
Mine is also messed up but only in the head, yours has health issues and OW is way too young...for a man with diabetes and no money.
Glad you had fun. You will be able to handle this more than well, and maybe you will not want him back.\
Blessing
I used to think the "we can still be friends" line was just something women used to ease the pain of a break up. Now I see it for what it really is: A con job.
If my M winds up in a D, I will be in Plan B for the rest of our lives.
Someone replied to that line with "You don't have
sex make love with your "friends""
My Mom and Dad got here yesterday afteroon. Both my girls were here too. Oldest daughter went to work and doesn't feel good and like to be off since she worked Thanksgiving. My Mom and I both told her we would pay here wages for today if she could come home. She only makes $7.50/hr so we can both swing it and I know my parents could swing it no matter what she made and hour.
Youngest daughter informed me last night that WH got someone to buy his truck for what he owed on it. I was so shocked. Now he has about $800/month extra in his pocket. I just can't believe it. It is not fair. I cried by myself in the shower last night and I cried in the kitchen with my parents today. I felt like God has made it easy for my WH to make with her. I feel so lost right now. He will get to use the company truck so all he has to pay for is the gas. WH's son 28 called looking for his father(he was raised by his mom and stepdad) and notified him of what happened. He said he was so sorry. He doesn't have a whole lot to do with WH. DD 19 gave him WH's number and talked to him a little while. WH's son has a 4 or 5 yr old daughter. I am betting since he didn't know his father had left me, I am betting OW doesn't know about him. Bet she will today. Now that WH will extra money he will now have the money to divorce me. This is not right.
Traci, I feel so much of your pain. I'm sorry for you.
When my WW left the house, she had an overdrawn checking account, was over the limit on her credit cards, owed money to everyone, and had no job. I thought $$$ would be the cause of her "seeing reality" and ending the A and bringing her home.
Then just a couple of weeks ago, out of the blue, an offer was made on a piece of property that has been idle for years. She now has $$$ to the tune of thousands.
So much for my thoughts/wishes. Someone said to me that perhaps she has her own Higher Power looking out for her -- and that maybe this Higher Power is protecting BOTH of us.
It didn't help me sleep any better, I'll tell you that. It makes the prospect of recovery that much harder, it seems.
One thing that keeps coming back to me is that things don't happen in MY TIME. I want things to work out and to happen soon. I read a lot of the stories here, and the people who have been working for YEARS on recovery is astounding. It takes a lot of determination and commitment to follow through. In A.A. we call this "Another F***ing Growth Experience."
It's very rought, especially this time of year. All I can do is advise you the same as everyone else: Keep coming here and pouring your heart out. The people on MB are some of the best people in the worst club in the world.
As shallow and hollow as it sounds, I wish you a peaceful holiday.
Merry Christmas to you,Fred. Thank you for words. Still don't think it is fair that they are not having bad things happening to them. They should not be having such good luck. It seems that we are the ones getting screwed over and over again and they are coming out smelling like roses. I just don't understand why. I know I am not the best person in the world but I was the best person for him and I never did to him what he has done to me. I have never screwed anyone over in my entire life. As a matter of fact, I have always said that I wouldn't do to anyone what I wouldn't want done to me, especially cheating on my spouse. I can't even be hateful to someone even when I would like to. I can lose my temper when pushed enough and let that person have it who set me off and that included my H. So I cannot understand why I deserve this to happen to me and he gets away scott free and being lucky. I am tired of hurting and him being happy. When is he going to get screwed in life?
Again, Traci, I share your pain, anger, grief and sorrow.
I've been around long enough to believe in Karma. We just don't know when it will happen, or in what form it will take.
The other day I posted about a man who married his OW and has been married to her for 25 years. Surprised, I said to him, "Oh, I guess everything worked out for you, then?"
His response surprised me: He says he still suffers from the guilt and shame of his actions. The impact on his life -- even 25 years later -- was evident in the expression on his face.
You see, "normal people" -- those with a conscience, have to come to terms with their actions and behaviors. They're called consequences. People without a conscience, like my WW, wind up with different consequences: living in small apartments, unstable relationships, perhaps STDs, financial difficulties, and the list is endless. And they moan and complain that life hasn't been "fair" to them.
Everyone gets their just desserts. Of that I am sure. It's just not in our hands to deliver it. That's frustrating, I know. So the best thing we can do is to live our own lives, being the best, healthiest, caring people we can be. That in itself is its own reward.
I really don't care if my husband feels guilty for what he has done. I think he and others like him should pay for what they do and not reap the rewards even that man who married the OW and was still married to her after 25 yrs. His guilt does not pay for what he had done because no matter what he is happy and everything worked out for him and his poor XW probably still bears the scars til this day. All I want is for him to suffer and to see he made the biggest mistake in his life and wants to come back, but now things have been made easier for him and he will finish what he started and leave me forever.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and now 4yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 22yrs now
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Traci - Hope you will enjoy Christmas with your parents and daughters. It's a hard time of year for people going through infidelity. But I promise you that your husband will pay, will regret the day he met the OW, and will realize that he tossed the best things in his life for nothing.
You are fairly new in this, but statistics say that chances are great that he will want to come back. The problem will be whether you still want him.
Try to have a good holiday and trust in the Lord's promise. I know it is very hard, and right now things seem to be going good for hubby. But that will change.
I want to thank everyone for their support and wish everyone a Very Merry Christmas!
Just got through having lunch with my parents and enjoyed it very much. Laughed some and talked with friends. Trying to grind up Starbucks coffee and figure out how much to use in the coffee maker. First pot was so strong that we would have grown hair all over our bodies. Laughing up here at the hospital trying to figure it out. Have enough goodies to feed all 3 units and we wonder why we gain weight this time of year. Except for the weight gain from the lexapro I haven't gained any other weight. Will go to a weight loss center come the beginning of the year and get rid ot this weight and then some.
Merry Christmas!
Actually, Traci, that strong coffee may remove hair.
FWIW, I was married to a n17 years my junior. It was a nightmare.Loneliest relationship I have ever been in.
I made it through Christmas without a hitch. Didn't cry and had fun at work. Surprised that I didn't hurt yesterday especially since WH left exactly 5 months ago yesterday. Had breakfast with my parents and then they went home to Tennessee. Doing fine and I feel that I will be fine for New Year's too. Have to work New Year's Eve but off New Year's Day. Don't know if I will be going out or not. Most of us don't go out to celebrate anymore but maybe we can get together at someone's house to ring in the New Year.
Still hoping and praying for his return.
BW-me 44yrs
WH 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and now 4yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 22yrs now
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Doing fine and I feel that I will be fine for New Year's too.
Hi Traci,
THIS is the true Traci. You know it. You have the self-worth to make the emotional state of "being fine" a reality. It always ends up showing itself in your posts. Sure, there will be down days, but your core belief system will ultimately get you back to places like THIS.
Glad that the holiday went well, Traci.
Stay strong.
TB
I try my best to stay strong but it is hard as heck to do. I was doing fine after my parents left for home and a couple of hours ago i just started to cry. It seemed the more I cried the more I prayed and the more I prayed the more I cried. I prayed that God would take my WH in his arms and let him see things as they truely are and to lead him back into the fold. I prayed that He would let my WH see the OW as she truely is and to see me as I am. I also prayed for strength and wisdom to see me through all of this.
Still hoping and praying.
You know what Traci, THANX.
I need to know that I am not crazy for praying for the same things you are. I have people telling me it will get easier, I will feel better, and all of that but it doesn't help. Intellectually I KNOW I will feel better, I KNOW it will get easier and easier but I don't want it to. I just want WH to WANT to come home. I have only been in a DARK Plan B for 8 days and it was a hard Plan A and a hard start to Plan B.
I am sorry for your pain but it is good to know that my pain is normal.
Thank you
Yes,Scotland, your pain is normal and others will tell you that it will get better. The problem is is that we all react differently and we heal differently and at different rates. My problem is that my friends all tellme to get over it and move on and they have never been there. Friends love us and want to help but don't know how especially when we are hurting. Keep praying and don't give up becaause I think if we do we will hurt more. It is comforting for me to pray to God. I think praying nd hoping helps us get over the worse of it so we are able to continue on when the time comes that they don't come back. I went to a form of Plan B before I found MB a couple of weeks after WH left me. I have been in a dark Plan B for over 2 months and that is what has kept me sane. I want him back more than anything in the world but I also know that I have to give it time because it has only been 5 months and I have given myself 2 yrs. Unfortunately I think I will be divorced in a couple of months. WH finally sold his truck and now has an extra $815/month because he no longer has to pay $710/month for his truck and $95/month for insurance. He can drive a truck from work. That helps make things easier for him to have money for OW. He only makes $11/hr now and has approximately $12000 in credit card debt. I hope that things will eventually come to head and he sees her as she really is.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and now 4 yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 22yrs now
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moves in with OW 7/29/2009
Maybe this will help guys but I relate to what you both are going through.
A counselor years ago told me that when someone goes through a separation, divorce that it was like the other person died. I expect that what thet were talking about was when something was final. Although the other party did not die, A part of our old life did die. This is why we mourn so and its part of the process for new birth whithin ourselves.
I come here to connect with others who have suffered loss and because I have seen these principals that are used here work in my marriage I support them. Its hard to read here sometimes because I see the mistakes I made when I isolated myself and didn't follow similar advice. But what kind of man would I be if I didn't support the truth? I know that in life God wants us for himself first, then we can be there for others. What happens to people in affairs draws them to God IMO and He will not let them down.
When my wife died I also went to God in tears and guilt and anger and begged him to help me. He is working day by day to get me to realize I am still His.
He doesn't want us to think we are damaged goods and wants us to see again that we are "fearfully and wonderfully made" The experiance we are going through will enrich our lives with Him, and take our security out of the hands of circumstances or people. There will be a time when fear, anger and bitterness will be gone and our relationships will be better because of it. This is a beginning, not an end but the mourning period is healthy as we process the loss.
My prayers are with you and you both are doing great
Hi TraciS,
We have had quite a wind storm up at my house. I had this awesome response to you on my thread, and low and behold it was gone when the power went out.
Hmmm... is it G-d or is it odd. I chose G-d so I am thinking my message wasn't what he wanted me to say to you.
I am heading out in a little while for my AA mtg, but I am home tomorrow and will do my best to read up on your sitch and just give you hug along the way.
I'm sure the vets are on here giving you the best advice, but it really touched me that you came on my thread and said what you said. Thank you.
I'm really glad that Mark got on there and gave his much desired input. He was absolutely INSTRUMENTAL in helping me find my walk with G-d. Not because he told me what to do, he just helped me stay focused on G-d.
On my thread somewhere is his flashlight analogy that I couldn't do nearly the justice too, but the long and short is. A man was walking in the forest and had nothing but this flashlight that kept him moving. It was absolutely pitched black on the sides and the way out of the forest was keeping his eye on the light. The light was G-d. I got so sidetracked trying to see what was was next to me. The path was only in front of me, little by little and with ONLY G-d. He knew where I was going, I just needed to TRUST him...
I hope maybe you have some time to find that analogy on my thread, it's so awesome.
Talk to you soon, Queenie
Thank you, Queenie. I just got on this morning and came to MB first. I really appreciate you and the others for your insight. You guys have been there, done that and have the T-shirt. It is terrible that we have and are going through this and I know that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger but if I get any stronger I will be a one woman army. I have read several people's threads and I can see the hurt and anger in them and I feel for them. It makes me cry. I can get angry but I can count on about 3 fingers how times this has happened since my WH left but I cannot count how many times I have cried. I wish there was some way I could make him feel my emotional roller coaster.
I pray so much everyday that I couldn't tell you how much I pray. I wake up praying and go to bed praying and I pray in between. I pray for strength and patience and I pray for WH return. I also pray that God takes WH in his arms and protects him from himself and to lead him back to Him. I pray that God opens his eyes and lifts the fog and for him to see OW as she really is and to see me as I am. I also pray that He puts as many obstacles intheir way to prevent their affair to continue and to prevent my divorce. GOd has given me me so much hope in my time of need. He told someone to tell me to "trust" and He told me "do not give up" and He lead me to a passage in the Bible that said "to have faith and do not doubt and that my prayers would be answered". I know that I have to take care of myself first and foremost.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and now 4yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 22yrs now
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Traci, I hope you take this in the spirit in which it's given.
I've been told that if you pray to God to help you move a mountain, don't be surprised if he gives you a shovel.
Put another, possibly more familiar way: Faith Without Works is Dead.
But Fred, read Mark 11:22-24 and read the verses before it too. It states that if you have faith and do not doubt that if you tell a mountain to go into the sea it will. That is me paraphrasing it.It also states that if you don't have doubt in your heart but believe that those things which you say will come to pass you shall have whatsoever you say, and what things you desire when you pray and believe you will receive them, you will get them. I have faith in God and that he will get me through this and he will open my WH eyes and he will eventually return to me. Now, when will he return is another question and who says I will take him back when he does return. Maybe I will have moved on by then, who knows. I am putting everything in God's hands. Right now my strong belief in God is what is really getting me through this. God can take anything that I dish out and I mean all the ranting and raving and the crying and the whys. God has been there the whole time to support me and he got my neighbor to give me the SAA book and led me to this wonderful website and to you guys. I ask God every night for signs and what should I do. Right now all I have to do is nothing. What I mean is is that I am to do nothing about my WH. So that is what I am going to do-nothing. I know if I do anything it will probably have the exact opposite affect and push him closer to the OW and farther from me. If I do nothing his affair will probably end sooner because I am out of the picture and she has to fill my size 7 1/2 shoes. And I guarantee even though those are not big shoes she can't fill them.
Traci,
I highly recommend the book "The Power of a Praying Wife" by Stormie Omartian. And for you men out there... there's also a Praying Husband version.
Traci -- this book really helped me focus my praying on the specific areas of my husband that needed attention -- his reputation, his integrity, his fatherhood, his attitude, his choices, etc.
Your post today reminded me that I need to reread that book again. That I need to not give up on the power of God to change my WH. There is an enemy at work to break up our marriages and our family. We need to pray for our husbands to turn away from this enemy. For today, include the following in your prayers...
"I will not allow anything to destroy my marriage."
OK -- my book is out and I now have something to read for the next 30 days. Just one section a day -- and each section is about 5 pages.
Happy praying!
Hi Tracy-
Another good book that helped me is "When He Leaves-Help for Hurting Wives" by Kari West and Noelle Quinn. I found it at my local Christian bookstore, but it is available at Amazon as well.
Each chapter has both authors' personal reflections from their own experience through infidelity and divorce, and also gives you some suggestions for moving through the hurt towards healing, no matter what the outcome.
Hang in there!
Thank you HH and JT for your recommendations. I will go order them on Amazon in a minute. One thing I like about MB is that I don't see anyone plling their punches or pussyfooting around the issues. I am a nurse and I believe in knowing all my options. I don't like it when I hear a doctor pussyfooting around what is going on about a patient. I think they need to hear the truth and I need to hear the truth and what my options are. What I do with options are my choice. No here is going to hurt my feelings and if they do I will get over it a lot quicker than you think.
Just ordered "The Power of the Praying Wife" and another one "The Power of Prayer to Change Your Marriage" by the same author. I should get them by Wednesday.
Right now all I have to do is nothing. What I mean is is that I am to do nothing about my WH. So that is what I am going to do-nothing.
I was worried when I initially read the first sentence. The elaboration (ie. following sentences) eased my angst.
What YOU have to do is take care of TRACI. Immerse yourself in things that give you pleasure, that give you a temporary "timeout" from thinking about Mr. Traci. I know it's hard. I know it's hard because I've had to learn to do the same thing from time to time. (Thinking about Mrs. TB, that is, not Mr. Traci......) I should put one of those smiley guys or maybe one of those laughing guy icons here, but I just can't bring myself to do it. Sorry. Maybe one day.......
Movies, books, hanging out with friends, concentrating on work, etc., etc. If it gives you a two hour break from thinking about him. Great. If it's only ten minutes, that's okay, too.
Not easy, I know. Please keep up the good fight and take care of yourself. Take care of what you have control over. YOU!
Keep hangin' in there, Traci.
TB
Thank you HH and JT for your recommendations. I will go order them on Amazon in a minute. One thing I like about MB is that I don't see anyone plling their punches or pussyfooting around the issues. I am a nurse and I believe in knowing all my options. I don't like it when I hear a doctor pussyfooting around what is going on about a patient. I think they need to hear the truth and I need to hear the truth and what my options are. What I do with options are my choice. No here is going to hurt my feelings and if they do I will get over it a lot quicker than you think.
IMO you have shown amazing strength and are a strong woman. Its an honor to know you in these threads.
Hang in there Traci
Don't worry, TB, I go to the movies and out with my family and friends. I love to read and I am back to reading again and playing games. Right now I am reading 2 books at the same time. I am also trying to clean my house right now. Bedroom and bathroom are done and I have a load of clothes and a load of dishes going. Working on the livingroom right now. Plan on going out to the movies as soon as my DD 22 shows up. Going to go see "Sherlock Holmes". When it comes to me I am doing what I did before the affair and extra stuff just for me. When it comes to WH I just ignore him and let him dig himself deeper into his fantasy "hole". I don't answer anything from him like his texts or phone calls. Told him I would respond to emails about divorce only but haven't heard from him on that at all in about 8 weeks after I told him to hurry it up because I had my paperwork filled out and after the divorce I didn't want to see him or hear from him ever again. He has tried with a text about 2 weeks ago to wiggle his way back into my life by saying he would come over and look at my internet to fix it. Like I needed any help from him. I fixed it myself plus my DD 22 is computer saavy and so is her boyfriend. I figure as long as do nothing and ignore WH the more OW has to do to meet all his EN and she cannot do that. I can guarantee she will never meet his financial support need and he cannot fulfill her's either. She might fulfill his sexual fulfillment but then so did I. I betting she fulfills his need for admiration, but I was always proud of him and he knew it, I guess I just didn't tell him enough. As for affection, every time I tried to get affectionate he would tell me to go away, but I bet he doesn't tell her that. I also bet that her children get on his ever last loving nerve because he doesn't have patience with small children even his own. His own family knows this. I am just going to sit back and enjoy myself and let nature take it's course.
Don't worry, TB, I go to the movies and out with my family and friends. I love to read and I am back to reading again and playing games. Right now I am reading 2 books at the same time. I am also trying to clean my house right now. Bedroom and bathroom are done and I have a load of clothes and a load of dishes going. Working on the livingroom right now. Plan on going out to the movies as soon as my DD 22 shows up. Going to go see "Sherlock Holmes". When it comes to me I am doing what I did before the affair and extra stuff just for me. When it comes to WH I just ignore him and let him dig himself deeper into his fantasy "hole". I don't answer anything from him like his texts or phone calls. Told him I would respond to emails about divorce only but haven't heard from him on that at all in about 8 weeks after I told him to hurry it up because I had my paperwork filled out and after the divorce I didn't want to see him or hear from him ever again. He has tried with a text about 2 weeks ago to wiggle his way back into my life by saying he would come over and look at my internet to fix it. Like I needed any help from him. I fixed it myself plus my DD 22 is computer saavy and so is her boyfriend. I figure as long as do nothing and ignore WH the more OW has to do to meet all his EN and she cannot do that. I can guarantee she will never meet his financial support need and he cannot fulfill her's either. She might fulfill his sexual fulfillment but then so did I. I betting she fulfills his need for admiration, but I was always proud of him and he knew it, I guess I just didn't tell him enough. As for affection, every time I tried to get affectionate he would tell me to go away, but I bet he doesn't tell her that. I also bet that her children get on his ever last loving nerve because he doesn't have patience with small children even his own. His own family knows this. I am just going to sit back and enjoy myself and let nature take it's course.
Very nice, Traci.
This post just epitomizes your strength, your confidence and a healthy dose of determination. Now THAT is a pretty good combo!
It really shows through because that's who you really are. Whether it was the REAL Traci BEFORE this whole hornet's nest got rattled, is irrelevant. What is pertinent, though, is that it will be the REAL Traci after the last handful of bees flys off to pester Mr. Traci, OW, or the next BS.....
'Sherlock Holmes' does look good. I want a full review afterwards. And saying, "Robert Downey Jr. looked so HOT" does NOT qualify as a movie review......
TB
Hey Traci, did you go see Sherlock Holmes? We went on Christmas and LOVED it.
Ok, I have read your entire thread and I am so impressed by your strength. I'm just going to play the devils advocate because as strong as I see you, I feel that pain inside of you that you are trying to push down.
It isn't going to work. I see you planning, figuring out, etc everything that is happening over there, happening over here and the simply truth is you have no clue what's happening on the other side. For US to heal, we have to FEEL those ICKY feelings of being rejected, of being chosen for someone else, of being abandoned and left.
Those feelings are real, that's our reality and thinking we have everything in control is dangerous because like many have said, we are dealing with human beings. I absolutely agree, the likelihood of the A busting up is WAY in your favor. But what concerns me and please help me see if I am missing it is what makes you think that WH will want to come home because he wants to have a M with you.
I truly believe you are one strong, more than capable person, but I also think you are in a lot more in the stages of grief and you aren't working through them. Please tell me if I am wrong.
Regardless of whether your WH is below you, a loser, etc, I hear and feel that you LOVE him and want your M. But I feel you controlling the situation instead of letting G-d have it. You have all the scenarios picked out how it's going to end, what you are doing, etc. It doesn't work that way. G-d has plans, he knows how it ends and however it does, it will be turned to good..
There is a flashlight analogy that Mark wrote me a long time ago. I'm going to try and find it. But it basically says that in order for G-d to bless us, we need to completely surrender to him and his will. This was SO HARD for me to have happen. But it was crucial in MY RECOVERY.
In Plan B, it was vital that I stop worrying about what WH was doing, protecting myself from the chaos, news, mind games etc. It was MY time to heal so that if/when the A ends you will have the energy, the G-d spirit inside of you to work on your M. And it's all your choice.
While you are in no way responsible for the A, you are partly responsible for the conditions that lead up to the A. What are you doing to look at yourself and make those changes in yourself that will change the environment in your M. While I agree that it is the WH's total responsibility to come home and meet all your demands, the reality of that happening isn't too high. So, for me I needed to change, become more G-d like because I WANTED a different M and since I couldn't control my WH, I could only change me and know that given the chance I wouldn't be the same people.
I want your M to survive, because I believe that it can if the right things happen that need to happen. But what those things are... I don't know, I'm so NOT G-d. I totally support you going out and having fun, taking care of yourself, being good to yourself because like they say, recovery is SO HARD.
There is just one touchy thing....for me, there was a reason why my WH didn't come home earlier, it was because G-d wasn't done with ME. Just a thought.....
We saw Sherlock Holmes today. LOVED IT! I had forgotten what it was like to see a movie (or read a book) that was filled with clues, and you don't get it til you see the solution at the end. What fun! I sure hope they make sequels.
Cat, I can't IMAGINE them NOT making the sequel. I'm so glad you LOVED IT...
Never got to go to the movies. DD 22 wasn't feeling good. She wants to wait until tomorrow and since I am off tomorrow we will go then. If she still isn't feeling good I might just find someone else to go with or go by myself.
Queenie, I told God today that I was going to leave everything in his hands because I could not continue to dwell on things like I had been doing. As for my M I tried to get my WH to do something about our M. He wouldn't do anything, I even suggested going to see a counselor and he said we didn't need to talk to someone about our problems and that we should fix it ourselves. The one thing I shouldn't have done was threaten him with divorce for sitting there and doing nothing. I was the one wanting sex and needing affection and the need for talk. He would always turn me down when I wanted sex over the years and when he wanted it I would do it because I didn't know when I would get it again. I swear that I could ask him for sex 29 out of 30 days and get turned down and he would ask me on the 30th day when he knew I was exhausted and not interested. I would take him up on it and every once in a while I was to tired and would turn him down. Sometimes I would make excuses for him because he is diabetic and at one time he was on zoloft. Now he has no excuse because it seems he can have sex without any problem with her. I might partly responsible forthe affair but considering what was going on in my marriage I should have been the one to have had an affair but I had enough respect for not only my H but myself and I love my H. I would never had divorced him and I told him that and that if I was going to divorce him I would have years ago and he knew that.
God has told me to not to do anything and that is what I am doing. I have left my WH to his own devices and gone on with my life even though it hurts. I may never get over this but I am going to try because even though I want my WH back I know there is a good possibility he will never come back. One thing I know is that my WH said was ILYBINILWY, we have nothing in commonm I am never coming back home, and we will never be together again. I have learned they all say this and I learned a long time ago NEVER say never because you will do the exact opposite. But I do know there is a good chance he won't return.
Thank you,Queenie, for your insights, I appreciate your advice. I will take everything you say to heart.
OMG Traci, do you and I have the sex deal in common and if anyone was primed to have an A it would have been me as well, NOT him. But it didn't work out like that did it for either of us and like you I was all alone learning to live life without my H.
Something that I was totally caught off guard and ill prepared to handle.
God has told me to not to do anything and that is what I am doing.
My G-d told me to stay out of the way, that this wasn't a battle between my H and me, it was a battle for my H's soul. That my H wasn't happy in his life and he was blaming me and our M on that unhappiness. He wanted to be happy and he believed that OW was the ticket to the happiness. The truth was for BOTH of us, that our relationship with G-d is what brings US complete happiness, because he KNOWS what's best for us and wants us to be happy, joyous and free.
Now as for doing NOTHING... Oh did I say that? I did something very important. I LET GO and prayed like I had never prayed before. I prayed for G-ds will. I prayed for G-ds word to rise up and win the spiritual battle that was so clear to me. By doing NOTHING I did everything. I like you lived life to the fullest or as much as I could, because I figured if I was staying out of the way, becoming the woman G-d had envisioned for me, then I wasn't worrying G-d and he could focus on my WH...
I worked all the Plans. I was separated from my WH for OVER 2 years, I was in a DARK plan B, nearly going almost a YEAR with NOT ONE WORD to him. A man that had been in my life for over 31 years. Yes, you are right, there is a GOOD possibility that he won't come home, and I can almost promise you it won't be in your time, HOWEVER, G-d hates divorce and he is working hard to recover your M in ways you can't even imagine. I certainly didn't. It's crazy for us to really not hold out hope that going into Plan B won't bring home our H, but it doesn't. What does happen is the A dies it's natural death, and those memories of good times, those memories of Plan A creep into the WH and then the fog begins to life, SLOWLY and they begin to think of the possibilities of what if.
Time is your friend. G-d is your light and path. TRUST HIM and walk in TOTAL FAITH... It was WHEN i truly SACRIFICED the love I had for my H to G-d as my complete TRUST and FAITH in G-d that things began to turn around.
Draw COMPLETE comfort that if your WH is doing and saying the things that they all say, then it will happen like they say it can if you can perservere and TRUST...
Traci, I was married 23 years when the A was exposed. My WH told me he didn't want to be married to his best friend anymore - that he wanted something more than to be married to his best friend, that he had no desire for me because I was fat.
Now.... that something more turned out to be a crack addict with hepatitis C.
They all affair down. They all say that it's forever. They all live the script.
BS's need to just find the strength and perserverance to trust the rest of the script.
Traci and Q, is there any chance that my wife was dressed in drag , posing as your husbands. My god, the sex thing and the unwillingness to discuss anything or go to counseling was exactly what i dealt with. I just gave up on sex, I was turned down so often.
Wow, ladies I have to agree with you too! I never understood how someone who was rarely interested in SF inside his marriage would seek it elsewhere. Seems like it would the the other way around.
I was also told ILYBINILWY, and that he did not find me physically attractive, that I was difficult to live with, etc. However, I found that as I made changes for the better, (Plan A, lost weight, recreational time together, etc.), the worse it made him feel. I see now that he was projecting HIS shortcomings on me. The problems were not mine, they were his.
Queenie - thanks for your inspirational words and encouragement to turn it over to God. Tracy - hang in there and take comfort in the fact that you are not alone.
I know that the affair was not my fault and that I did try even if I probably didn't handle it right. Right now I am finding myself and having fun doing it. I have made plans for myself, like going on trips, going to see Jeff Dunham on stage, redoing my house, and losing the weight I gained while on lexapro. I am even going to get the spider veins on my legs taken care and see the plastic surgeon for some procedures. They say the best revenge is looking good and feeling good.
Prayed to God last night and asked for a sign and what I got back was give it time. Didn't get to sleep until after 2AM and was awake at 6:30. I could of taken ambien but I don't want to be dependent on it. I hate medication. I was on lexa pro for over 4 months and I lived in a fog and didn't feel a whole lot. I have emotional swings at times but I would rather have those than feel nothing.
Traci, PLEASE consider going back to your psychiatrist (I hope you DID use a psychiatrist and not just a GP) to get different medicine. There are tons of different medicines that do NOT put you in a fog. I take one that does nothing more than make me think 'hmm, yes I SHOULD get off the couch and take out the trash.'
I am even going to get the spider veins on my legs taken care and see the plastic surgeon for some procedures. They say the best revenge is looking good and feeling good.
Traci,
I think it's great you are getting into "Self". Just a word of caution - if you don't heal the inside first, fixing the outside is only a bandaid. You might want to check out these two books "Lit from Within" and "Simple Abundance by Sarah Ban Breathnach", available at library. Simple Abundance was written by Sarah after her D and is a great book on rebuilding self.
P.S.
Don't take cosmetic surgery lightly. Surgery is surgery and people have died from cosmetic surgery too. Gg
I feel better without the medicationa and I am seeing a therapist and I am doing fine. I feel better than I have in months. I am only going to get a chemical peel and restalyne injections. I cannot afford major surgery and as for the spider veins, I am a nurse and I stand a lot so I can put it on my flexible spending card that I have if the insurance doesn't pick it up. I am really doing fine. I was told by my therapist that I would have some mood swings coming off of the medication and I have but not too bad. I try to keep busy and do things and that helps. I hope my daughter feels better today because I want to go see "Sherlock Holmes" and I will go without her if I have to. Love going to the movies.
Just got back from the movies and getting 4# of Dunkin Doughnut's coffee. The movie was great but not as great as "Avatar". The movie's ending let you know that there is going to another one. DD 22 enjoyed the movie too.
When I got back in the car from the movies DD 22 checked my phone because it had been on vibrate in the movies and notice that I had a missed call. It was from my WH! No message though. Don't know what he is up to and don't care. I don't answer texts or phone calls from him. He is suppose to email me only and that is suppose to be about the divorce he wants. I will probably hear about that soon since he can now afford to pay for one and he sold his truck. Wow, he is hitting rock bottom. Lost his wife, marriage and children. His brothers and sisters are mad at him and have no respect for him and they support me. Lives in income based housing with 2 small children. Makes only $11/hr and had to sell his truck and his 2 expensive shot guns. He now makes half of what he use to make. He has no insurance and is diabetic with high cholesterol. Boy, has he ever scr---d himself.
Just got back from the movies and getting 4# of Dunkin Doughnut's coffee. The movie was great but not as great as "Avatar". The movie's ending let you know that there is going to another one. DD 22 enjoyed the movie too.
When I got back in the car from the movies DD 22 checked my phone because it had been on vibrate in the movies and notice that I had a missed call. It was from my WH! No message though. Don't know what he is up to and don't care. I don't answer texts or phone calls from him. He is suppose to email me only and that is suppose to be about the divorce he wants. I will probably hear about that soon since he can now afford to pay for one and he sold his truck. Wow, he is hitting rock bottom. Lost his wife, marriage and children. His brothers and sisters are mad at him and have no respect for him and they support me. Lives in income based housing with 2 small children. Makes only $11/hr and had to sell his truck and his 2 expensive shot guns. He now makes half of what he use to make. He has no insurance and is diabetic with high cholesterol. Boy, has he ever scr---d himself.
Maybe I should introduce him to my WW. She has no job, got fired from her last one and the rap will keep her from ever being employed in that field again. Her (my) health insurance runs out Jan. 1 and she has three ongoing medical issues. Her smoking again isn't going to help, either. She's gone from living in my house where I paid all the bills, driving my car (which will soon be coming back to me) and living out of a suitcase.
Oh, not to worry, though. She's inherited a small sum of money that will allow her to rent an unfurnished apartment for about six months. She has furniture here, however. Which is sitting in my sub-zero garage, waiting for her. Meanwhile, OM is recuperating from his manhood trimming, living in a rented room in someone else's house and sending all of his money to his kids to pay for their expenses. Given his track record, he's probably already cheating on her, so when WW finds out, she'll be ripe for yours.
We saw Sherlock Holmes today. LOVED IT! I had forgotten what it was like to see a movie (or read a book) that was filled with clues, and you don't get it til you see the solution at the end. What fun! I sure hope they make sequels.
I got addicted to Holmes after the first book I read.
His logic was amazing. Read every one of his storys. Hope the movie does him justice..
Oh, forgot that WH is smoking again after quiting for almost 19yrs. That is what guilt will do to you. With the diabetes and high cholesterol and age 47yrs he is ripe for heart problems and that won't help him in the sex department either. Oh, did I tell you that I work in a CVICU(Cardiovascular ICU) and we are the only one in the area. If he starts having chest pain he will probably wish someone would just shoot him than come to my ICU. They will give him the STAR treatment there, nurses and doctors.
If he starts having chest pain he will probably wish someone would just shoot him than come to my ICU.
I think that's referred to the Karma bus around here. It's just amazing the lengths Waywards go to continue messing up their lives.
Gg
I bet you want to still take care of him huh? You are an awesome caregiver. I think everyone here would agree on that.
It is going to be so hard for him to buy back into your marriage. I can only hope that he sees the light and recovers his mind. May God lovingly grab him by the scruff of the neck and shake sense into him.
At what point does a man see what a man should be? I don't know that answer and don't pretend to be a perfectly balanced one. All I know is that fear is a powerful motivator. Having felt alone, being aware that my choices would determine the outcome of my life, and lacking the confidance in myself to make all the right choices has driven me to seek counsel outside my emotions.
At the times I could get outside my insecuritys and see that I could make a differance in other lives for good I have considered that gift from God. A gift that came from not being afraid to give what might not be appreciated or given back. That is something that God wants me to keep in a healthy balance. Something that I still struggle with as I make excuses for people who haven't treated me fairly.
Being 52 and not interested in seeking any personal relationships outside of being a freind to people my emotional needs will now have to be supplied by God. I have no distractions from that anymore nor am I required to jump though hoops or suffer the pain of abandonment. Truthfully I am looking forward to that. I will have to take care of myself and there can be no excuses. My worrying about my late wife and her bad choices that affected my children and me is over. God has allowed that to be forcibly put in my past. My unhealthy obsession with "fixing" my wifes thinking and allowing myself to feel responsible for her issues was taken out of the picture by Gods hand. She is with Him now.
It is up to me to live right before Him now, depending on Him for an expectation in life. The process is lonely at times but His light shines through the clouds a little bit more every day.
God is sovergn, He will "shake what can be shaken" and what is left is real. Your heart that has given so much to your husband will be honored by God.
I pray that you find the peace that passes understanding by trusting in Him.
I just found out WH sold a very expensive digital camera with a very expensive extra lens on EBay for $450. I bought it for his birthday 2yrs ago. It was worth a lot more than that. I put on the listing that it was too much camera for him and tht he was going to get a smaller one. Liar. I bought it for him because that was what he wanted. Then I thought stop it, I really don't care if he sells all his belongings because eventually he is going to have nothing left to sell. I was feeling a little guilty for selling some of his guns for DD tuition but now I don't any more. The past couple of days have been a learning experience for me and with all of your help I have finally gotten it in my head that I AM GOING TO CONTINUE WITH MY LIFE. I cannot change my WH only he can and hopefully God will be there to help him. I would be lying if I said it didn't hurt a little bit that he sold something that I got him as a gift. When he got I asked if he was going to sell it and he told me he would never sell it because I gave it to him. There is that word never again. Like I said before never say never because you will do the exact opposite. I know because every time I said never, I did the exact opposite and I have seen others do the same. Isais I would never get married, I would never have children,I would never join the Army, I would never become a nurse, and I would never take my H back if he scr--d around on me. I did all of the above and I would take my WH back if he came back. I am learning slowly but surely.
Lol
I was watching Lion King with my 2 year old granddaughter Xmas day and the little baboon guy,(The wise one), says
"You have two choices, you can run from your past, or you can learn from it, you choose".
Funny that I can still get lessons from kids movies?
Live and learn huh?
I also like that book about everything I needed to learn in life I learned in kindergarden.
>They will give him the STAR treatment there, nurses and doctors.
I'm thinking manditory hourly enemas...what other way to clean out the (#$&(& that he's so obviously full of.
(snark)
Back to your regular programming, people.
Traci, I saw Avatar night before last. I wish I could watch it 3 more times, but the Wookie says I have to wait till it comes out on DVD.
(le sigh)
Traci:
Go read the response Sugar Cane wrote on Leroy 717 (?) thread. I think all WS (and thinkin about WSin) people should have sent to them.
It might apply in your case.
what a hoot!
I bet he needs the $450 to lay in a supply of Viagra. 21 year age difference does not bode well for the sex life, IMO.
WH text me today asking if he had insurance and I told him no (he actually does until Jan 1st). He asked me when I wa going toget the cell phone and electricity in my name and I told I would work on it and I'll have it done by next week. The last thing he asked me was if I would ever get past hating him. I text him back and told him that I never hated him just the opposite. But that we couldn't be friends as long as he was with her. Told him he knew how I felt and that he knew where he stood. with me. Meaning that he could reconcile if he was ready to. I know that he knows what I am referring to because he is not that stupid. He has not text me again. I wasn't pleading, clingy or anything. I just stated the facts clear and simple. I had told him earlier when he was asking about changing the names on the bills to not text or call me any more and he said wouldn't after everything was changed over. Don't know what else to do.
Leaving it in God's hands but still hoping and praying.
WH text me today asking if he had insurance and I told him no (he actually does until Jan 1st).
Hey Traci,
As I've said in the past, I think you're doing great, but I wouldn't have lied about the health coverage. What I might have done is just given him the customer service number to the health plan and let him find answers to his questions. Heck, if you've tried calling any of them, you know that it could take him 'til next year to actually get a response! Plus, in all likelihood, he'd drag his feet and wouldn't call for a few days.....
Maybe it's not that big of a deal, but I would just get involved as little as possible, and keep my side of the fence as weed-free as possible. Again, maybe a minor issue.....
TB
Well actually he asked if I had dropped him from the insurance and I told yes I had. I am trying to stay away from him as much as possible. I haven't seen him in over 4 1/2 months and except for today have had no contact at all in over 2 months. I can't believe he thinks I hate him. Maybe he figures if I hate him it will make things easier for him to continue what he is doing. I never told him I hated him and I never will but I never told him I love him today even though I did tell him that without saying it.
I can't believe he thinks I hate him. Maybe he figures if I hate him it will make things easier for him to continue what he is doing.
Of course he says that he thinks that you hate him. It's all nutty and distorted rationale to make him justify his actions. "I can't go back to Traci because she HATES me after what I did."
Hate? No. Believe he's making a big mistake? You betcha. Open to discussing his return home? Yes. As I was told after Mrs. TB moved out, make sure you always provide a clear path home. One way that you have done that is by dispelling all of his hot air about hate......
TB
Thank you, TB. I was wanting to hear from someone about what he was thinking, especially from a man's point of view and I would take anyone's point of you right now. I can't believe how much this is tearing me up inside. I know I shouldn't let it but I can't help it. I try to stay calm and take deep breaths and it does help some because I haven't cried yet so that is one point for me. At least he doesn't know how this is affecting me so I guess that is another point for me.
WH wants to know when he can come get his stuff and his guns and I told him the 10th becaus eI will be working that day and it gives me enough time to get the electric and cell phone in my name before then so if he gets mad about anything I am safe from him turning anything off.
Would appreciate what anyone else is thinking on what I have said and done and what they think about what WH has said.
Leaving it in God's hands and still hoping and praying.
I can't believe how much this is tearing me up inside.
Remind me again, are you in Plan A or B?
I am in plan B. I know I shouldn't have answered his texts but I was just letting him know that I had dropped him from the insurance. I figured it wouldn't hurt to answer about the bills too, boy was I wrong. That was when he asked if I would ever get past hating him. I said, "I never hated you just the opposite. But we cannot be friends as long as you are with her. I have already told you everything else and you know where you stand." I probably shouldn't have answered but I didn't want him thinking I hated him. This is what is tearing me up, me loving him.
probably shouldn't have answered but I didn't want him thinking I hated him. This is what is tearing me up, me loving him.
Traci,
Plan B is to protect YOU from HIS and OW drama. By you allowing contact only hurts you but satifies him. He can't take your Plan B seriously if you don't stick to it. Have you ever talked to OWH? Did their D become final?
Gg
Never talked to OWH and don't care to. From what I can gather they talk and are friendly. Staying out her life and drama. Do know this much, OWH filed for D 10/14/2009 but noting else has happened since. I can look up all cases on line and see what is happening and I checked last week and the only thing that has happened is that he has filed his paperwork only. It takes a minimum of 3 months to get divorced in Florida if you have children. They haven't gone to counseling yet so it is going to be months before they get divorced.
I know that I shouldn't have answered his texts but I did and I am paying for it. There was no drama on his end except for wanting to know if I would ever get past hating him. I know, Iknow, I was stupid. I just wasn't expecting him to say that. I haven't physically talked to him or seen him in months and I don't plan on it until I see him at the courthouse. Still haven't heard anything about the divorce yet, but probably will soon.
I am up bright and early for work. Feel a little better but my eyes are puffy. They should go down as the day goes on. Feel like a real idiot.
OK everyone. WH wants to reconcile. He has left OW. I told him we had a lot of work rodo and a lot of talking todo. The one thing that I told him was he couldn't have any contact with OW for the rest of his life. He agreed to this. Said that he hs always thought of me and has been feeling guilty the whole time and that he knew that he has hurt me horribly. Told him we would talk tonight after I got off of work tonight. Need help with a plan of action.
OK everyone. WH wants to reconcile. He has left OW. I told him we had a lot of work rodo and a lot of talking todo. The one thing that I told him was he couldn't have any contact with OW for the rest of his life. He agreed to this. Said that he hs always thought of me and has been feeling guilty the whole time and that he knew that he has hurt me horribly. Told him we would talk tonight after I got off of work tonight. Need help with a plan of action.
Where is he living?
He is at a friend named Chris's house. Has to get his stuff from her place while she is at work.
Have you read the thread about avoiding a false recovery?
here
He is at a friend named Chris's house. Has to get his stuff from her place while she is at work.
You may get him back and realize you dont want him now. I'm not saying its a certainty, but manage your expectations. He has gone wayward and is changed forever...Be careful! DUDE
Yes, read the false recoveries thread. I went through it 5 times... him back and forth for an entire year.
The OW will not give up... regardless of what she says. She'll say things to him like "I just want you to be happy" and "I'll glady step aside if that's what you really want."
OW are snakes. They are manipulative and cunning. Don't be surprised if she says she's sick or suicidal or whatever just to get him to break NC or to stop by and pick up something. Read Queenie's thread on this.
And him -- if he says to leave him alone for a while or he needs space or he doesn't want to leave the house with you or go places with you -- watch out. He will contact her behind your back.
He's got to really, really do the work. You cannot and should not do the heavy lifting. I tried to "fix" it with everyone for him and it got me no where. He has to fix it and WANT TO fix it.
This is not the MB way, but if I had to do it over again, I would have insisted that I be there when he tells the OW that he is done with her. That way, she sees me in the role of wife. OW thought and still thinks that I'm a no body. I think if WH had said to her face, with me right there so it was implanted in her stupid brain that I"M THE WIFE, she may have backed down. She -- I know this is bad to say -- but she really needed to be humiliated in front of me for her to stay away from me and my family.
Instead, their interactions were between just them and still are.
Good luck, girl. I am rooting for you!!!
Traci,
Print out this article and give it to him to follow:
Harley response to wayward wife on rules to follow for recovery He needs to agree to O&H, Transparency etc. Also question why he wants to come back - is it because he truly realize he was losing you or is it because he's losing all his conveniences. Be very cautious.
Good link by Pepper.
Gg
WooHoo Traci!!
You may get him back and realize you dont want him now. I'm not saying its a certainty, but manage your expectations. He has gone wayward and is changed forever...Be careful! DUDE
Lets hope he is changed forever!!
He's got to really, really do the work. You cannot and should not do the heavy lifting. I tried to "fix" it with everyone for him and it got me no where. He has to fix it and WANT TO fix it.
Yes make him work for it. No mothering. He will only respect himself if he owns his mistakes and earns his place in the marriage. That includes his seeing the consequences he caused.
Remember that you deserve to be treasured and cherished. Don't rush back into this. Follow the advice from the vets and be very clear about what you expect from him. Don't be so quick to forgive that you let him get away with anything because you feel sorry for him. Letting him be off the hook is NOT respecting him and his role as a Husband.
I am so happy for ya gurl
Wow, that was fast!
Now make sure you do a good R
blessing
It seemed so obvious that he would be back to me. Traci spoiled the hell out of him. This now is a time tha they can work on a balance that will leave him with self respect,(because he will have to want and work for it bAY--BEE) and help Traci to be spoiled a little bit now.
"A Three-fold cord is not easily broken" Traci,WH and God..
SMB posted this awhile back...
just food for thought
make your own list
Just getting your wayward home is not enough.
You want a spouse back who is not going to pull you into the chaos of a FALSE RECOVERY
Sexymamabear made this list. THIS is how Plan B should end.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
REQUIREMENTS TO COMING HOME
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Humility
Remorse
Surrender emotionally before me and spiritually before God
Godly sorrow (not fleshly sorrow) (Godly: sorry that I ever had the A & did this to our family. Fleshly: sorry I hurt you)
Authentic repentance
Owns his choices and the consequences they caused (to himself, me, children, extended family, friends, etc.)
Apology for the A and his hurtful actions before and after
Confession & apology to children
Confession to extended family & certain close friends that have confronted him
IC, MC, & Family C
Accountability forever to 3 men that I choose
Attend church again
NC Letter
Provide all cell phone & credit card records from this past year
Complete radical honesty about our entire history together
15+ hours together weekly
Pray with me daily
Polygraph
Post Nup agreement that provides for me very well if we ever divorce
OK everyone. WH wants to reconcile. He has left OW. I told him we had a lot of work rodo and a lot of talking todo. The one thing that I told him was he couldn't have any contact with OW for the rest of his life. He agreed to this. Said that he hs always thought of me and has been feeling guilty the whole time and that he knew that he has hurt me horribly. Told him we would talk tonight after I got off of work tonight. Need help with a plan of action.
Hi Traci,
This is good. A great opportunity. You've worked hard and deserve the fruits of your labor. As others have mentioned, make sure he does the work to earn his return. (Mantra for waywards - "Earn Your Return"??? Sorry, I digress, once again.....)
Since I'm still tussling with WW's A, I am not exactly your resident expert on plan creation. That being said, some things that come to mind:
1. No contact letter - written and mailed; some opt for the more personal interaction so that BS can be a part of that sayonara convo....
2. MB weekend? Could there be some value in BOTH OF YOU getting that hands-on assistance?
3. Commitment to work on marital recovery - can't just come back for his med's and nicer wheels. Has to come back because he wants to be a part of a REAL M. Ask and LISTEN.
4. Forgiveness/Contrition - he has inflicted much pain on you and needs to make amends for his destructive behavior. Where this falls on the timeline of M recovery is a bit beyond my spectrum, but without it, you may develop a keen sense of resentment.
5. Does he have an action plan regarding how to clean up HIS SIDE OF THE FENCE? Does he know WHY he strayed, and does he know how to rebuild proper boundaries?
Bottom line, Traci, is that this is YOUR OPPORTUNITY to communicate what you need FROM HIM. You don't want this to become a false recovery, so like I said, make him EARN HIS RETURN.
You've been so strong, and determined through this whole journey. You deserve to be a success story. Stay steadfast and keep reaching out as you begin this new phase. If you know my story, you know I'm trying to get Mrs. TB off the fence and back home. She's been teetering, but I just can't seem to nudge her over the edge (and I don't mean "edge of a cliff"...)
TB
Sorry that I haven't posted in a couple of days since WH wanted to reconcile. WH said that he has not been happy and has felt guilty the whole time he was gone. Said he didn't think I felt the way I did about him. He thought our marriage was over and never meant for what happened to happen. I told him that he should have been talking to me and that I had been trying to work on our marriage and that he wasn't. WH talked for hours and opened up about everything he felt. Said OW couldn't go on feeling the guilt of what she had done to me. Said that OW marriage was over before WH came into the picture. WH said he has to get over the feelings he has for OW before we can go on. Told him that he was going to through withdrawl and that it wasn't going to be easy but he couldn't have any contact with her. He agreed. Told him that he had to be transparent about everything. WH hasn't slept in 3 days and it is starting to show. He looks older. I know we are going to make mistakes along the way but we are going to try. H is now on zoloft and took first dose yesterday. We are taking hte first step by talking and we are going to work on the Rule of Protection and POJA. I have explained this to him and he has agreed to it. He has agreed to go to IC for several reasons. Still hoping and praying.
WH said that he has not been happy and has felt guilty the whole time he was gone.
Said he didn't think I felt the way I did about him.
He thought our marriage was over and never meant for what happened to happen.
WH talked for hours and opened up about everything he felt.
Said OW couldn't go on feeling the guilt of what she had done to me.
Said that OW marriage was over before WH came into the picture.
"In my opinion, a marriage is over when the divorce is final."WH said he has to get over the feelings he has for OW before we can go on. Told him that he was going to through withdrawl and that it wasn't going to be easy but he couldn't have any contact with her. He agreed.
Particularly the female infidels go for this "closure" ploy, and the foggy men fall for it.
Next time you speak to WH, ask him to contact you before he replies in any way shape or form to any contact efforts from OW.
Tell WH, "Let's talk things over first when OW contacts you. Especially if OW asks for closure - call me right away."
Told him that he had to be transparent about everything.
WH hasn't slept in 3 days and it is starting to show. He looks older.
He'll feel better soon.
I know we are going to make mistakes along the way but we are going to try. H is now on zoloft and took first dose yesterday.
We are taking hte first step by talking and we are going to work on the Rule of Protection and POJA. I have explained this to him and he has agreed to it. He has agreed to go to IC for several reasons. Still hoping and praying.
Once the STD testing is done, and you are free to do it, have as much sex as possible without falling over dead.
I kid you not !
Let MB forum know when you hit that terrible angry speed bump a few months down the road. It seems to slap the recovering BS out of nowhere.
You're doing GREAT !!!
Let MB forum know when you hit that terrible angry speed bump a few months down the road. It seems to slap the recovering BS out of nowhere.
Traci,
Pep's right. You're going to go through different emotions as you try to R your M. The best support I received was here. Vets helped me understand why I was feeling the way I was at the time.
Gg
Still talking a lot. WH now finally asleep in the recliner. Letting him sleep since he is exhausted. Trying to stay off of computer and spend time with him. We both feel that we are making some progress and know that it is going to take a lot of time. He finally figured out what I was talking about when I was talking about addiction and withdrawl from OW. He understands completely and wanted to know what if he runs into her at the store and I told him he had better turn around and walk away.
He isn't to fond of what I have done to the bedroom but understands why. He would say stuff to me and say he doesn't want to hurt my feelings but..., told him I want him to be honest about everything even if he doesn't like what I have done with house. Told him I sold 3 of his rifles and he wasn't too happy. Told him he had sold the camera I gave him. Also told him that I did feel guilty when I did it but that I did it for DD 22. I did feel guilty when I did it and I almost didn't do it.
This is going to be hard but I am in it for the long haul and I think we are worth it. Told him that I had been praying for God to take care of him in the end and I think this surprised him. I hope once the zoloft kicks in that he starts to feel better and maybe we can move forward a little easier.
Still hoping and praying.
Traci,
He shouldn't be making you feel guilty about anything - he hasn't earned it. And don't give up the things you wanted to do for yourself. Remember he has to prove through his actions and this is going to take time. It took my M two years.
Gg
AD meds: Great thing for a spouse going through withdrawal.
Transparency: Required for recovery.
Dr. Harley counsels couples going through withdrawal from a lover to do so together, rather than apart. Spending withdrawal together doesn't result in immediate results, but it lays the groundwork for future recovery together as you show your ability to care despite the affair.
Good luck.
I like this advice when dealing with foggy statements about the OP:
But, let it pass. Like gas. Think of OW as a fart, if that helps. Smelly, unpleasant, but feels better once one lets go.
It's a great "word" picture and is sooo true!
Let MB forum know when you hit that terrible angry speed bump a few months down the road. It seems to slap the recovering BS out of nowhere.
Everything Pep said was perfect but this one sticks out.
What awesome news Traci
This is awesome news.
I'm so HAPPY for you.
It's really hard to know what to do. But keep G-d in the picture, ask him for guidance, seek the wisdom here and trust your instincts. We aren't there. YOU ARE.
I hope you know that it is your sheer guts that saved this union, at least to this part of possible recovery.
You sound like you love him dearly, don't let pity over ride what you KNOW needs to happen.
Sometimes WS slip and still communicate w OW. I have read this scenario more than a few times here. Don't allow any sneeky communication aves (try to get email PW phone and text under control) tenativly trust but verify
In about, oh six months, you may feel a backlash of emotions that surprise you. As long as you keep posting, I'm sure the pro's here will help you.
Also MC is great, but not all WS are ready for it right away.
Do I say congrats??!?! Good Luck to you. I hope it is as it appears!
Still talking and he is talking to his family too. He said he had to learn to open up and talk. He never opened up to his own brothers and sisters and now he is talking and opening up to not only me but them and they are happy. They are also happy and relieved that we are back together. They are all praying that everything turns out okay.
H talks about us what happens if we can't make it work. He is afraid that I won't be able to handle it again. I told him he should not think that way that he should pray on it and that I feel we can make it. Have faith. I think that is the guilt and the fog talking. I know he is still in a fog. I just have to continue to pray and be strong. I have gotten this far but I have a long way to go and I mean a long way. I know that there are a lot of statements he makes that tells me he is in a fog still.
Still hoping and praying.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and now 4yrold and still married
married 20 yrs
together 21yrs
DD 22yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Trying to recover 12/30/2009
He is afraid that I won't be able to handle it again. I
What did he mean by this - him having another A?
Traci, have you considered the MB home program? Since your WH is willing it seems the home program could work for you both.
Gg
It sounds like he is real foggy and still in his emotions a lot. His feeling guilty is a two edged sword here IMO. He needs to feel guilty for what he has done to everyone but he also needs to let the OW go as his responsibilty.
It will be tough but his guilt if any should be pointed at his failure with his marriage so he will build that up.
I hope that what I said makes sense. Of course God will show you guys which way to choose and the vets on the board here are more experianced with all this.
Rooting for your marriage Traci!!
H told me today that he is feeling a little better and feels better about us. Me, I am scared to death. Still talking though. H is scared that if we can't fix our marriage that I won't be able to handle it. Told him that we have to try and that I think we will do fine and that it is going to take time and work and he knows this but is worried about me.
Will probably try to take some family medical leave because of the stress. Don't want to lose my job. Doing okay right now but what in a couple of weeks. The stress might get to me with the stress at work too. Will probably try to take 4 weeks off.
Still hoping and praying.
Traci,
You are doing great. Taking things VERY slowly is good. I did it too that way. Work through things step by step. Mimi taught me to remember that the WH was damaged and hurting and not the person who I remembered when he left home.
There has been time for them to change and you are just getting to know him again. And yes, the fog is so obvious. JT taught me to Plan A MY H and Plan B the WH. By that I mean, when you see that he is foggy, don't push the situation, turn him over to G-d and seek guidance on how to walk through things.
G-d is right there wanting your M to recover. TRUST him, he knows how it is supposed to happen. He will show you if you listen.
Breathe... be still... listen.... but most importantly watch his actions....
TRUST G-d....
I love you...
Went to bed last night and talked about 2 hours. I know that my H is depressed and it shows. And I also know that because of his depression he is negative about things. He is scared what if this doesn't work out. I told him that we have to give it time. He said that our marriage didn't have any passion and that he took most of the responsibility for that since I had always tried to work on it. Told him our marriage did have passion at one time. He said yeah at the beginning and said so did your affair. Told him that marriages don't start with passion and keeep it the whole marriage. That you have to work at it. He is hoping once the medication kicks in he will feel somewhat better and be able to participate. Told him he will probably have to increase his dosage. Funny thing is is that he doesn't realize he is participating by just talking and letting me in in ways he never did before. He is letting me know haow he feels and that he is scared. I told him that by following the Rule of Protection and using the POJA was the first step and that I wasn't going to push him until he was ready for the rest. Also told him that I wanted know what he wanted out of marriage. I am trying to meet his emotional needs and hoping that this will help him and me. Told him that I was going to do small things for him and not to stop from doing them.
I have never seen someone so depressed before and I realize that this is what I must have look like before drugs kicked in. Depression is a horrible thing and I know that he did this to himself but I really don't like looking at him like this. I am worried because the affair just didn't burn out but he came back out of guilt and depression. I know that he love me and that he cares and he let me know that but I also know that he loves her too. So I am still worried about that. He didn't like thefact that he could do what he had done. He wants to work on our marriage because it is important to him. I just don't what else to do at this time.
Are you taking him to a doctor for his depression?
I am sure that in time and with some outside counseling for your H things will improve for his depression. Its a real problem for some of us I know.
He's home where God wants him to be and just like your former prayers asked. What has he been praying about Traci?
I have seen you referance 3 times about how concerned he was about what would happen if things didn't work out. I have a feeling that right now he wants out of everything including his A.
I am sure that your H is very capable but he sounds like hes having a lot of self-confidence/insecurity issues.
Hang in there Traci
But, as you have already discovered, the first few weeks of separation from a lover are very painful. You are addicted to your lover, and separation from the object of your addiction has triggered symptoms of withdrawal -- a compulsive craving for him with intense feelings of anxiety and depression. However, if you completely avoid seeing or communicating with your lover, those feelings of anxiety and depression will gradually fade. For most people they fade in a few weeks. But even if it takes longer to get through withdrawal, it is absolutely essential to do it if you want to restore your love for your husband
The above is what Harley wrote to a WW who chose to R her M with BS. Your WH is going through withdrawal. He has fears based on the feelings he had while with OW. He needs to get through withdrawal.
Gg
OK everyone. WH wants to reconcile. He has left OW. I told him we had a lot of work rodo and a lot of talking todo. The one thing that I told him was he couldn't have any contact with OW for the rest of his life. He agreed to this. Said that he hs always thought of me and has been feeling guilty the whole time and that he knew that he has hurt me horribly. Told him we would talk tonight after I got off of work tonight. Need help with a plan of action.
OMG, I dont read for a week and look what happened....I am always hoping for this to happen to someone when I havent looked in a while....I am still reading on, I am sure you are gettin help with this....I am so so happy for you Traci, just take it slow and dont take any less from him then NC and actively working on the marriage...
I am so glad that H and I are talking because that was something missing from our marriage. He is letting me in and he is letting his family in as well. Got up with him this morning and made coffee for us. Offered to make breakfast but he said no and that is because he has no appetite. One of the things he use to want me to do was get up with him on my days off and make coffee and breakfast because he saw my Mom do it for my Dad. Now I want to do it for him because I realize that it is the little things that you do for each other that count. He called me on the way to work and said he understood the reason for the NC rule because he saw the OW car on the way to work and she was on her way to work. He realizes for us to work on our marriage that he has to have NC with her. At least he called me and told me and now he has to go an alternate way to work. He also told me that he appreciates me and everything that I am doing because I am making him feel better about us and our marriage and feels like we have a chance. He thinks I am great about how I am handling everything and listening to him about EVERYTHING. And yes, he is listening to me too.
H is seeing a doctor for his depression and started on medication last week. It will take about 2 weeks for meds to kick in and I told him he will probably have to increase them. He wants to double it now and I told him no, wait until he talks to his therapist or doctor and to wait until they kick in first. Told him that they will probably wait until he is on the med for about a month before they increase it.
H said we didn't have any passion in our marriage and I told him that after the first few years the passions wanes and what you have built your relationship on is what counts. Also told him that except for a year or so that I have always felt passion for him and that I always wanted to be close to him physically, it was him that was that way. The reason I didn't feel that way for about a year was because we had just moved here and I was under a lot of stress and tired all the time. Once I went on zoloft I was better and a year later I was off of it.
H prays everyday about us and our marriage and about getting him through his depression. Told him that praying helped me a lot.
I think H is looking at me through new eyes and is looking at me differently. It really floored him that I took him back and never hated him. He told me that he is impressed with how I have handled everything and glad that I did all the research that I did because that is what is going to help us.
Still hoping and praying.
No Cat, they don't work together. He got fired from his job because of her. They couldn't prove anything but they didn't want a lawsuit for sexual harrassment later on and since my H was in management they told him to either quit or get fired. He quit. So he didn't get fired but to me he did.
H came to the hospital yesterday and had lunch with and that was nice. The only other time he came to eat with me when it was a holiday and the girls were with him. This was the first time he ever came on his on and alone.
I am trying to take it slowly and to give time, time.
Still hoping and praying.
BS-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 4yr old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 22yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Trying to reconcile 12/30/2009
Awesome Traci keep in touch.
Traci, don't expect a whole lot in return at first. You thought Plan A was tough? Recovery is a whole nother animal. Resist the urge to LB when you start to feel resentment rise up (and you will from time to time once the hysterical bonding is over).
Unfortunately, you'll have to lead the recovery for a SHORT while, but as long as you're sticking with the MB plans, and he is willing to be transparent, open and honest, you'll make it. Don't settle for less than what you need-- if that includes requiring attendance at an MB weekend, then go for it. I've never been but I hear it is the cement for a marriage in recovery.
(((Traci)))
Traci- I'm so happy for you. Your's is the first bit of good news I've heard in the new year, and I hope this is a good sign for you.
Please make sure you both schedule counseling with the Harleys, and maybe even swing a MB weekend. Those who have done it swear by it.
I know it's still early, but while he's still motivated by his actions, you want to keep things moving. Make sure the skank's number is blocked and emails and texts aren't getting through. She just lost her gravy train and she AIN'T gonna be happy about it one bit.
((((((((Traci))))))))
Tracy, I am very happy for the R of your M, however, I really have to say what I have been thinking for days now reading your posts.
I think OW dumped your H. If I read correctly only a few days ago he sold his truck then the camera you gave him and only a few weeks ago he was telling you he would never come back to the M.
I think OW just realized he was really a loser plus a depressed person. He might still be very much in love with her thus the doubts about the M. When he tell you: I am not sure you will be able to handle the R of the M he is really telling himself: I am not sure I will be able to handle the R of the M.
All I am saying... he turned around too quickly for the decision to be his....
blessing
I disagree.
Vehemently disagree.
And to call Traci's husband (the man she loves) "a loser" just might be crossing a line.
Hi Pepper,
I am just stating my opinion and not saying that what I say is the truth, far from it I hope...but i wanted to share it because it is quite suspicious the quick way he came back..
As far as loser...well I did say that in previous posts as well and Tracy did not get mad. I will apologize to her if she feels I have to.
We are all here to support eachother,...not to bash eachothers' opinions
blessings
Your marriage, your family is worth fighting for:Married 20yrs
together 21ys
DD 21ys
DD19yrs
I want him back and I haven't said anything ugly about him to his family either
Recovery is hard.
Harder than most people think.
Ask for help from the forum when it gets difficult or seems like too high a mountain to climb.
You and H do not need to re-invent the marriage recovery wheel, nor do you need to "wing it" when trying to recover.
This MB program has a roadmap for recovery.
Make the most of it.
Atena,
I think this is going exactly according to script...
When both sides of Plan A are applied properly it makes returning to the marriage a better option than remaining in the affair. For the first time in a while the WS begins to make a decision based on what is right, what is logical and what is the best option of those presented to them. Until that time they have not been thinking at all but merely acting from feelings.
Some, usually men, will have a ONS or an affair for the single purpose of sex. For these people the feelings of love do not interfere with their thinking when they get caught. I think that Tiger falls into this category. Ending the affair is really a matter of will power for them and not much else.
But the vast majority of affairs happen when a person falls in love with someone else. Based on what Dr Harley has taught all along, the feeling of being in love is not some magical thing that negates falling in love with the BS or even precludes the possibility of the WS having actually held those same views and feelings for the BS at an earlier time.
When these affairs end it can be very difficult for the WS to reconnect to the BS at least at first. The affair which was really only a fantasy in the first place can linger in the mind of the WS for quite some time. The answer though is still the same, to do what will lead to the WS falling in love with the BS all over again.
If the WS does NOT have feelings for the affair partner, that is what would make them a player and would not make ending the affair so difficult. And THAT I think would make them a loser and not worth pursuing recovery with.
Traci's H's OW probably met some combination of ENs for him that caused those feelings to develop. Traci learning to meet those same needs will lead to him falling in love with her again and the fact that she was all along meeting other ENs of his will give her an advantage in the long run.
JMO.
Traci...
Now the hard part starts...
Mark
Traci, you're getting great advice here. Speaking as someone who had a false recovery, I will caution that this will be a bumpy ride, regardless. Just hang on and stay on course.
We are trying to make sure we are considerate of each others feelings but telling the truth about how we feel and what we want. I told husband that I want to know everything and not to hold anything back because I am expecting the worse. H text me again today to tell me haow much he appreciates me and everything I am doing. He also said that the way I have been acting has made it easier for him and that he is impressed with me. i guess he expected me to go off the deep end and rant and rave but I haven't. Reading SAA and coming here has prepared me somewhat. I am relieved that he is back but I am not happy yet and know that is going to take time. I am still apprehensive and rightly so. I am going into this with eyes wide open. I am on the offensive right now with my marriage and I am going to fight for it tooth and toenail. H constantly texts throughout the day to let me know he is okay and show appreciation for me and what he is doing. He actually called the unit to see if everything was ok because he had text me twice with no answer back.
I want everyone to know that I know that this is going to the hardest thing I have ever done and that it isn't going to be easy but it will be worth it in the long run. I will come here often for advice as well as going to IC and marriage counseling.
I know I have probably said this before but it is all the small things that you do for each other that count and not the big things. That is one of the reason's I haven't been on the computer too much and just spending time with him. right now he is on the phone with his sister.
Still hoping and praying.
Traci you are doing awesome. I'm so happy and proud of you. You learned well.
Your doin awesome traci
Glad you guys are seeking help from professionals.
Thank you Mark
I do not get your quote below
But the vast majority of affairs happen when a person falls in love with someone else. Based on what Dr Harley has taught all along, the feeling of being in love is not some magical thing that negates falling in love with the BS or even precludes the possibility of the WS having actually held those same views and feelings for the BS at an earlier time.
What you are saying here is that if H is in love with OW this does not prevent him to fall back in love with me? If that is the case I think the very fact that he is in love with her precludes all the possibilities of him falling back in love with me because he simply wants to be with her and not me. In plan B there is not way to meet H emotional needs and the OW meets most of them and in my case, H new friends meet the other needs OW does not meet. So he has not need for me.
In Tracy's case, if my theory is right, that is if OW left her H, her H now is faced with being homeless and with no money so that drives him back to be with Tracy and even if he is still in love with OW he will now put effort into falling back in love with W. He does not seem to be a loser, but again, my theory about OW leaving him might be wrong.
The thing that surprizes me is his willingness to open up and talk after all he put Tracy thru and after being so difficult ....in a way he looks pretty desperate to me.
blessing
Up this morning just to be with H and have coffee and talk. H does feel a little better but has a knot in his stomache still. He still has feelings for OW and thinks that this isn't fair to me and he is right but with time and didtance and hard work on our part it will fade and his feelings for me will get stronger. I know that he is still in a fog and it will take time for it to lift. It would be easier if OW had of kicked him out or if something had happened for him to return. But H returned because of the guilt and the stress. He told me if it was for all the outside forces that they could of made it. I told him that is the reason affairs don't last. OW supposedly couldn't stand the guilt either. She couldn't constantly have her children under her thumb when H was around and she gets them every other week. She also wanted to spend time with them at her H home during his week. I am betting money that she will get back with him. They are supposedly friends now. I am taking everything H is saying with a box of salt. I really think he believes everything he is saying and believes her too. I think when she gets back with her H this will open my H eyes. Even if she doesn't get back with her H she will bounce back a lot faster than my H.
Not personally knowing you or your H, the following is an educated guess on my part.
Most men thrive on admiration.
I suspect your H needs you to admire him before he can admire himself.
If you can find clever (but factual and authentic) ways to meet H's EN for admiration, he might fight off his depression more swiftly.
Sure, it's a sort of "borrowed" or "mirrored" sense of self you'll be giving H, but right now, I think that is OK.
Traci, when you mention IC adn MC, PLEASE don't just pick any old counselor. At the very least, start off with sessions with Dr. Harley. A lot of IC and MCs will focus on the past, and not the future. Digging through the past isn't going to help you NOW. Right NOW, you need to shore up your love for each other. That means ENs and avoiding LBs. It's really that simple. Going into a big soul searching isn't going to build love for each other. REALLY stay focused on those principles, then make sure you have a counselor who follows the same. Many marriages have failed because of a misguided MC or IC. Don't give them that power. MB is what got you through this--don't go elsewhere for your new journey.
(((Traci))))
I'm so happy for your and your husband's progress. I hope you M becomes stronger than ever before.
Thanks Pepper, this morning is rough. H thinks he needs to get passed his feelings for OW before he can work on us. He was checking up on me to see if I was ok. He is worried he is going to hurt me more. He says he loves me but not they way he should, a husband for his wife. He thinks that if he had the feelings for me that he should of that this would never of happened. Told him that even the strongest marriages can have an affair if given the right situation. He doesn't think that applies to him. I am not going to argue with him. I told him that it was going to be a long and narrow road to recovery and that I would not push him. I just love him and want this to work no matter how long it takes. Not long after I got off the phone with him I was on my knees and praying.
I am trying to meet H emotional needs. I am being affectionate to him without going overboard. I thank him for everything he does and tell him that I appreciate him doing the small things like communicating with me and fixing my leaking pipe that I could of done. I told him this morning thank you for picking up after himself and that I appreciated it. I am keeping the house picked up and clean because he likes that and with him helping, it is easier. I had the house kept clean and picked before he came back. At one time the house was so clean you could eat off of any surface. It was too clean. I am just so confused and I have a knot in my lower chest. I am also scared. I know that is normal. I just wish something would happen to open my H eyes. And yes, I know that it is going to take time. It doesn't help that H keeps saying what if it doesn't work out. I know that is the fog talking but it doesn't help either. I just need to take a deep breath and continue on.
Any chance you can call MB counselors?
I think they would suit your needs, quite nicely.
He doesn't get over OW by being alone. He gets over it by being with you and falling in love again. Sure, he has withdrawl, but he can't completely detach or you can't be the one filling his LBank.
I am not going to argue with him.
Smart!
How about this, you make it a requirement to have an hour of recreational time together, daily. (not TV)
Doing something physical like walking or working out.
Playing some card/board games.
Think of something to do together. Not necessarily romantic, but relaxing/fun/amusing/quirky/silly.
Ask H if he can fill your EN for silly today.
Ask H to brush your hair.
Give you a foot massage.
Paint your toenails.
Count your freckles.
Be open to any activity that requires you pay attention to each other.
Not personally knowing you or your H, the following is an educated guess on my part.
Most men thrive on admiration.
I suspect your H needs you to admire him before he can admire himself.
If you can find clever (but factual and authentic) ways to meet H's EN for admiration, he might fight off his depression more swiftly.
Sure, it's a sort of "borrowed" or "mirrored" sense of self you'll be giving H, but right now, I think that is OK.
Pepper has a good point.
Also think your doin great Traci and your insight is good about what will happen.
Husband might need you to be OK for Him to be OK ATM.
I know if I had fallen into such a pit I would need some help climbing out. Just let him do the climbing and you just lend a hand. If you don't let him find his footing he might not see that he is climbing out of a pit. A pit that was hurting everything he loves.
You can't carry him out but you can show him the hand and foot-holds to find his way.
H has been joking a little today and he was smiling and laughing some too. That is a first since he has been back. Went to lunch with both daughters and he was looking forward to it. I am hoping to go to one of Dr. Harley's seminars in a few months but have to come up with the money for it and the plane tickets. I think H would agree to go if it would help. Wondering if I should allow him to read SAA and if it would help him to read it.
I know things will eventually get better because when this all started I never thought I would have been where I was at before he even returned
Traci, are you guys spending at least 20-30 hours a week giving each other your undivided attention?
Seriously, living the Rule of Time, in combination with learning to not engage in Love Busters and meeting ENs even a little bit goes a very, very long way.
I want to surprise my wife with tickets to a MarriageBuilders conference as an "I love you" gift this spring after we get our tax return. She really wants to attend one. We have more than enough miles on our card to cover plane, hotel, and car, so it would basically be just the cost of the conference and meals that we'd need to worry about.
So back to you, Traci_S... how are you guys doing on Undivided Attention? Have you been keeping track to make sure you never fall below 15 hours, and easily reach 20+?
Hi Tracy,
I just wanted to share a few things with you. I went thru a R with my H after his first A, 5 years ago.
We never did counseling as he did not want to. I am glad you are planning on it but it is especially important for your H to be in IC right now. He can't work on the M till he has dealt with his own issues.
You are trying to meet his EN and you are probably feeling a lot of resentement and anger towards him, I know that because I have been thru it (twice now.... only now we are separated) and the resentement you have, if you stuff it up and play nice with him, is going to come out eventually and ruin your M later on.
Your H needs to want to do the necessary work to R the M. He seems willing to, of course he is confused and has feeling for OW but that takes some time.
What my H told me while we were R from his first A is that my affection and my attention were too much for him and that instead of making me look appealing to him they made me look more like a mom than a wife. So be careful there.
You too need to find support and do some IC or other just to keep your sanity. I believe this is about taking care of YOU more than taking care of your H. He will have to go thru his internal stuff on his own.
He messed up. If he really wants to save this M he has to do some work as well. Your job is to make sure he follows thru on his williness to make M work. Otherwise, trust me, it will last for a while and he will probably cheat again. Mine did.
You can be there for him and supportive, but you do not have to be a puppy dog catering to his every need for the fear of loss. This will make you unappealing.
Fear will not take you far.
Tell yourself that it is what it is. Spend time with him but do not expect anything at all from him now. If he really wants to recover he will have to work out his doubts so it is useless for him to say: what if it does not work out?
That again is acting out of fear.
It will take time for you to overcome all the pain and resentement you are stuffing in right now.
I can relate because after H first A, I can say I never had a relaxed moment since and that has been for the past 5 years!!
I had to walk on eggshells for 5 years and you know what...? At the end he had his second A and told me that after his first A he was never able to truly re-build love for me. He faked it as much as he could, but was never truly in love again with me.
I am not sure he was telling the truth since that is fog talk, however, please take care of yourself. The M is important but it is also important to be able to lead a happy, relaxed life with a person who deserves us.
Take care of yourself. YOu are trying to give at a time where you are actually craving a lot of attention and affection yourself. You have been deprived of love for a while and you have been rejected in favor of OW. These feelings are in you so please respect them, let them be and do not suppress them.
blessing
Traci, I said it once before, but I think we cross-posted, so you might not have seen it. After reading Atena's post, though, I wanted to say it again.
Be VERY CAREFUL about your selection of MC and ICs. They MUST be counselors who take the MB approach--which is NOT the traditional approach. Read this to mean that 80 percent or more of counselors do more harm than good. Strongly suggest phone counseling with the Harleys at this point. It's worth the $$, I promise you.
And it's A LOT cheaper than a divorce.
Finally got back today. Had a migraine from heck today, the one where you hug the toilet bowel a few times. Finally was able to get something down and take pain medication. Still have a small lingering headache but over the worse of it. H called a few times to check up on me. Enough that DD 22 complained about the phone ringing.
H asked me to ask my therapist to recommend someone for him to see. He has nothing against my therapist but he feels that she might be a little bit prejudice against him. I understand and I will get her to recommend someone like her. She never judged my H or made any ugly remarks about him. She concentrated on me and my thoughts and feelings about everything including my marriage. She is real good and knows about Dr.Harley and his methods and thinks he is good. H wants to go to counseling on his own for a while then we will go together and I think he is at least open to going to Dr.Harley's weekend seminar or doing it at home and on-line. H seems a little bit more relaxed and is definitely starting to smile more and picking at me like he use to.
I am showing H affection without going overboard and the same with appreciation and admiration. We are definitely communicating more and that is helping a lot especially for him.
Still hoping and praying.
Hello! Hope you are doing well.
I encourage you to look into MC and IC, but there is no reason to rush this. I have read that it may take time to "de fog" and get into a positive therapy mindset. (for your WH)
As long as you are reading, learning and having positive interacions with your H.. you are on the right track.
Good to see ya Traci
Sounds like you are doing he right things and I am glad that you guys see the need for professional help.
I really really like two of the things Dr. Harley teaches which gives me hope in what I would have allways wanted in my relationships.
The policy of Radical Honesty and..
The Policy of enthusiastic agreement.
If I had any relationship I would hope that those two things were present and formost in it. To me, the person I trust the most with my life would be who I really wanted to share those values with.
The great thing about it is, you don't have to agree on everything you try but you can be enthusiastic about trying something new.
If you are totally honest it means you will put thought into something before you agree to it and then you are forced to be introspective as well as reasonable with your spouse.
I will be looking foward to hearing how you guys are doing.
God Bless
Boy, when they say recovery isn't for wimps they mean it. I have on a rollercoaster since H came back. I worry because he says what if we try and it doesn't work out. He is worried about how I am going to respond. I don't know how I am going to respond but I am going to fight for my marriage and I told him that. He feels he has to get over his feelings for OW before he can really work on our marriage. Any advice on that. Right now he is reading SAA and he says he says Jon and Sue mirror us. I think he is geeing the picture on how he looked. I know he is starting to understand more and more. I didn't make him read the book he wanted to read it.
His family is so happy he has returned and his brother that was so supportive of me said that if OW was a man that he would come here and kick her a$$. And the thing is he would. I don't know what H actually said to his brother and I wonder if he told him more than he told me about their breakup. Probably did or maybe we heard the same thing but differently.
H is getting it about one's EN and I am hoping once he gets through with the book that we can start on that next. He realizes we were not meeting each other's EN. He knows that the book is not a magic bullet and that once he is through with it he will feel ok and we can work on our marriage but at least he is trying and wants to work on our marriage together. I have hope for the future but I am not going to be naive about anything again.
Still hoping and praying.
BW-me 44yrs
WH-him 47yrs
OW 26yrs with a 2 and 4 yrs old and still married
married 20yrs
together 21yrs
DD 22yrs
DD 19yrs
D-Day#1 discovered cell phone calls 6/30/2009
D-Day#2 7/26/2009
WH left 7/25/2009
WH moved in with OW 7/29/2009
Trying to reconcile 12/30/2009
Sounds like he is slowly moving in the right direction. Hang in there. DUDE
He feels he has to get over his feelings for OW before he can really work on our marriage. Any advice on that.
He needs to see that his feelings for the OW are an enemy of your marriage. This will take some time. I am sure that he cares for her and doesn't want to hurt her but he needs to see that he already has and the best way he can help her now is to be gone from her life and tell her to find someone new.
Being her hero was probably one of the attractions to this affair. It will be hard for awhile for him to see that he can be your hero and that you will be a willing and grateful damsel in distress. (metaphors sorry).
He sounds truly sorry and he will take some time until he can let himself off the hook. Make sure that he sees both how bad this was and how lucky he is that its over. Someone said he needs to do the heavy lifting here. right now he is in weight training as long as he is listening to the harleys.
Hang in thier for the emotional rollercoaster WEEEE
Traci,
Have you given this article to your H. Harley wrote it to a WW but it's good for any wayward. During withdrawal Harley mentions going on vacation. Don't know if that will help you and WH but maybe it's worth a try.
Harley response to wayward Recovery is not a smooth ride for sure. I consider my M recovered but there is always something that comes up. My FWH mentioned today he wants to join a gym. Three years ago he met OW at a gym. We live in a different town now and I don't know if it's a good idea. I guess I'm triggering. We never really POJA him going to any gym.
Gg
During this time of rediscovery between H and myself I have found out that even though H has friends he doesn't have any close friends he could hang out with or really talk to. I have been encouraging him to get closer to the friends he does have(male friends), so he has someone to hang out with from time to time when I work on the weekends and he doesn't get bored and lonely. That is another one of his problems and that kind of goes hand in hand with his social anxiety.
Husband is still reading SaA and learning more and more. He talks to me about what he reads what he is learning and that gives me hope and it is giving him hope for us too. He told me that he use to be worried about me hanging on to the hope he was coming back becasue of all the research I was doing on affairs and now he is glad that I have done it because it is now helping us.
Every night when we go to bed I always tell him good night and sweet dreams and touch him affectionately. Last night he did it to me before I could do it to him and that is a first since he has come back. It made me feel good that he did this.
Still hoping and praying.
Hi Traci,
You are doing awesome. How do YOU feel? I remember when I was at this point it was all about the wayward and I just want to make sure you are doing ok.
I have been encouraging him to get closer to the friends he does have(male friends), so he has someone to hang out with from time to time when I work on the weekends and he doesn't get bored and lonely.
Hopefull these friends are supportive of marriage and what it takes to health and create a new marriage. I realize that you can't pick your H's friends, but please just be aware of who he is hanging around and if he acts differently when he is with them.
Husband is still reading SaA and learning more and more. He talks to me about what he reads what he is learning and that gives me hope and it is giving him hope for us too. He told me that he use to be worried about me hanging on to the hope he was coming back becasue of all the research I was doing on affairs and now he is glad that I have done it because it is now helping us.
My H read the book in the beginning. He went through very many of the same thoughts and emotions. I remember thinking that the book was a way for my thoughts to be expressed without me doing it and that it helped explain what was happening without it being me. At one point I got an email from my H telling me he didn't think this would EVER be happening and that he didn't know how I stayed the course for so long, but THANK YOU. You are doing GREAT.....
Every night when we go to bed I always tell him good night and sweet dreams and touch him affectionately. Last night he did it to me before I could do it to him and that is a first since he has come back. It made me feel good that he did this.
BABY STEPS... I found those to be the most pure.
You and I can't TRULY understand what they are feeling and thinking or comprehend what their choices have done to them. Mimi, my mentor drove home in me that they were damaged and needed to just be treated gentle. Their fog comes and goes for sure and even a year later I can sometimes see the fog. Their persons are harmed and what I continually did was ask G-d to help me speak the words that HE wanted me to speak. To show me how I could be a of service to HIM and help bring his child back to his fold and to simply just be there and be still.
For as much as we have been. What surprised me was how damaged and insecure and unsure of life they are. We get to be that Proverbs 31 woman, love on them, but let them walk through what they need to walk through.
Does that make sense?
I am doing ok right now, actually I am doing better than my H is. He went to a friend's surprise birthday party last night without me because he would feel uncomfortable with me there because they were the same people that were at his party and he felt like they would judge him. Guess what, he got in trouble for not bringing me there! Everyone there was glad we were back together. He didn't stay out late or real long. H said from now on we would go together. What his friends said made him feel better and they are supportive of us. This made me feel good.
Still hoping and praying.
Still hoping and praying.
Keep it up, Traci! We're rooting for you!
I firmly believe our fear drives our decisions, and we always assume, out of fear, that everyone is thinking the worst of us. But really, they're either too busy thinkng about themselves or are thinking a lot more highly (or forgivingly) of us than WE think.
Plus, humility goes a LONG way toward achieving forgiveness.
Just because your paranoid doesn't mean ppl are not still talking about you.
Not even a a giggle? Oh well my strange sense of humor lol. I allways thought it was a funny saying..and true
Boy, you guys are right, recovery isn't for wimps. I am tired and stressed and it has only been 2 weeks. H is negative sounding a lot. He keeps saying what if it doesn't work out and that he has to get over these feelings for OW before he can work on us. It hurts and I just want to give up. He thinks he should start feeling something already. i told him that it is going to take longer than 2 weeks and that it is going to a lot longer than he thinks and he shouldn't be so negative. He keeps saying he doesn't want to hurt me again. I am glad he is being honest with and sharing his feelings but it hurts. I just feel like telling him to just go and I know it would kill me to let him go but what should I do. I am trying to fight for our marriage and for us and it hurts so much. Any ideas?
Still hoping and praying.
Boy, you guys are right, recovery isn't for wimps. I am tired and stressed and it has only been 2 weeks. H is negative sounding a lot. He keeps saying what if it doesn't work out and that he has to get over these feelings for OW before he can work on us. It hurts and I just want to give up. He thinks he should start feeling something already. i told him that it is going to take longer than 2 weeks and that it is going to a lot longer than he thinks and he shouldn't be so negative. He keeps saying he doesn't want to hurt me again. I am glad he is being honest with and sharing his feelings but it hurts. I just feel like telling him to just go and I know it would kill me to let him go but what should I do. I am trying to fight for our marriage and for us and it hurts so much. Any ideas?
Still hoping and praying.
Remember when I told you he may come back and you REALIZE YOU DON'T EVEN WANT HIM. You are probably getting there. He is too screwed up from all the waywardness. It may take him two years to shake it, maybe more??! I think your being valiant, but I also think you will realize he just isn't worth it. I'm sorry, but be careful what you wish for..DUDE
Go back to this ....
Husband is still reading SaA and learning more and more.
PS
Early recovery doth sucketh muchly. 
Seriously look into at least one session with Harley. I'm not kidding. Wouldn't you pay $200 to stop feeling the way you are right now? It's worth ten times that amount, or more!
You can do this, you've come so far, so don't give up yet!
Told H last night that I am still hurting and haven't stopped since he left me and that he wasn't helping any. H said he was sorry that he wasn't trying to hurt me. Told him that he acted like it wasn't going to work out before we even got started. He said he didn't mean it that way. He is just worried that if it doesn't work out that I will be back in the same spot I was in 6 months ago. He said he wouldn't mention it any more. Told him that I was going to fight for our marriage tooth and toenail. That I wasn't going to give up on us or on him. I don't want him to leave but I don't want to feel like I've lost before we get started either. H said he always had respect for me and always knew that I was a good person but is just realizing how GOOD a person I am and that his respect for me has grown.
I am going to look into seeing if my flexible spending card for medical expenses will cover a session with Harley if it does I am on the phone in a flash. If not, I will just have to have it come out of my next check, next week.
Still hoping and praying.
Oh, today is my 21st anniversary and H did remember it.
Happy Anniversary. Times like this is when the "in good times and bad" really has meaning. Stick with it, Traci. And pray for your husband. You got the "Power of a Praying Wife" book, right? THIS is the time to use it. 30 days of prayer will go a long, long way.
Traci, the next time H tells you that he's afraid that if working on the M fails you will be back to where you were 6 months ago, explain this to him:
"Honey, if we both try everything we can to mend, including staying faithful and working the MB principles, and yet we still fail, I will NOT be where I was 6 months ago. Back then, you were actively in an affair, working your hardest to destroy our M. If we both try our hardest, and for whatever reason, we're still unsuccessful, we will know we did everything we could. Everything does not equal nothing. SO QUIT WORRYING ABOUT THAT AND LET'S GET TO WORK!!!"
(((traci)))
I got the "Power of a Praying Wife" book in the mail the day my H came home. Coincidence? I don't know, but I still pray multiple times a day and pray from that book too. I feel that God wouldn't have him come home just to have him leave again. I mean why would God tell me to not give up, have faith and don't doubt, do nothing(that was before H came back), and give it time just for H to leave again. I am following Dr. Harley's advice so far and it isn't hard so far but I know that it will get harder eventually and I am in this for the long haul.
I am off today and I got up with H to spend time with him. He told me that I didn't have to because I could sleep in since I am off. I got up anyway and I think he likes the fact that I am getting up to be with him even if he doesn't admit it to me or to himself. Later on I will try to cook breakfast for him because if I try right now he will probably wouldn't appreciate it thinking that I am trying to kiss up to him. If he asks me to cook him breakfast I will. I did cook breakfast for him last week when I was cooking mine. He normally just eats cereal.
DD 19 leaves Monday morning for the Air Force. I didn't want her to go in at first but I think it will be good for her. She is spending the day with her friends on Saturday and the day with us on Sunday. She will do fine. She is a natural born athlete and ran track in high school and played soccer for 12yrs and was in gymnastics for a couple of years. Basic will be a breeze for physically because if I could do Army basic and not be the athlete that she is then she can do Air Force basic easily. She does have ADD and she will have to pay close attention so this will be good for her. I know she will do fine.
Still hoping and praying.
The fervent prayer of a righteous Traci availith much.
Hang in there traci it will pass.
I am off today and H went to get gas in his work truck. We are to spend the day with DD 19 and DD 22. DD 19 leaves tomorrow to go into the Air Force.
H and I are doing fine and making progress slowly. I have never been one to make my H stay home all the time and he knows this. H asked if he could go over to his friend's house Friday night and I told him he could. He left at 10pm and returned by 10:30 and stayed with DD 22. He never got to friend's house. He tried again yesterday afternoon while I was at work and onley stayed a little while. His reason was it was too soon. I let him make his own decision and I think he did ok. Still have a long way to go.
Still hoping and praying.
I have a question for everyone out there. My H thinks that after 2 1/2 weeks that he should feel like he is getting over the OW and he isn't. He still has feelings for her and what he means is that he is still in love with her. About how long does it take for him to start feeling like he is getting over her. He tells me he does love and care for me but not as a husband should for his wife and he won't work on our M until he gets over his feelings for the OW. This scares me because he thinks he should already be getting over her. I told him it takes longer than that. I think he is going to only give it 6 weeks and then leave again. What do I do?
Still hoping and praying.
Ask H to read/post on MB.
I have a question for everyone out there. My H thinks that after 2 1/2 weeks that he should feel like he is getting over the OW and he isn't. He still has feelings for her and what he means is that he is still in love with her. About how long does it take for him to start feeling like he is getting over her. He tells me he does love and care for me but not as a husband should for his wife and he won't work on our M until he gets over his feelings for the OW. This scares me because he thinks he should already be getting over her. I told him it takes longer than that. I think he is going to only give it 6 weeks and then leave again. What do I do?
Still hoping and praying.
Tell his old a to grow up??! DUDE
Love busting will not a marriage save.
Traci,
Did you print this article and give it to WH?
Harley response to wayward on recovery As long as you WH continues to focus on OW and his feelings towards her - it is going to interfere with your recovery. In essence he's blocking you from making love deposits into his love bank.
I agree with Pepper, have you WH post here.
Gg
Love busting will not a marriage save.
No, but you'll keep your sanity and sleep well at night..DUDE
Love busting will not a marriage save.
No, but you'll keep your sanity and sleep well at night..DUDE
I don't often respond to you, DUDE. And I frequently disagree with you. But in this case, I have to admit you're right on target with me.
The last two hours of the past weekend, when The Leopard and her BPD daughter were tearing the wall plates off the bathroom switches and grabbing anything that wasn't tied down, I lovebusted BIG TIME.
I knew at the time that it was immature and purposeless. But I told her the things I'd been holding inside for months.
The end result is a bit of closure: I am now in Permanent Plan B and -- are you ready for this? -- I'm
sleeping again!
Love busting will not a marriage save.
No, but you'll keep your sanity and sleep well at night..DUDE
I don't often respond to you, DUDE. And I frequently disagree with you. But in this case, I have to admit you're right on target with me.
The last two hours of the past weekend, when The Leopard and her BPD daughter were tearing the wall plates off the bathroom switches and grabbing anything that wasn't tied down, I lovebusted BIG TIME.
I knew at the time that it was immature and purposeless. But I told her the things I'd been holding inside for months.
The end result is a bit of closure: I am now in Permanent Plan B and -- are you ready for this? -- I'm
sleeping again!Isn't it nice..I'm here to save people's sanity. SOme on here would throw their life away to save a marriage w/ a disrectful, awful spouse AND MAKE THEMSELVES CRAZY DOING IT! No MARRIAGE or R is worth going CRAZY, IS IT???! Cowboys are getting blown out so I'm gonna take a nap. Sleep well my friend...DUDE
Cowboys are getting blown out so I'm gonna take a nap. Sleep well my friend...DUDE
Another reason I'm going to sleep well tonight.
Cowboys are getting blown out so I'm gonna take a nap. Sleep well my friend...DUDE
Another reason I'm going to sleep well tonight.
Hey, watch it!!!
A GREAT recovery plan outline.
Written by DoNoMo (formally Barnboy) on LadyLongLeg thread.
LLL,
Good on you for taking some time out for a jog. A few "Love Busters" -- instances of being the source of your spouse's unhappiness -- far outweigh a few acts of kindness. If you can force yourself simply to avoid the following things for the time being, you're making great moves forward:
1. Selfish demands. Avoid demanding anything of him right now. The only exceptions to this rule are statements of what you would be willing to accept as good faith that he wants to recover, which I'll cover below.
2. Disrespectful judgments. You will want to call him on the carpet for his behavior, call him every name in the book, and he deserves it. Believe me, I know he deserves it. But refrain from saying things disrespectful about him -- or the other woman -- anywhere that he will hear or read. Keep your interactions with him consistently positive, or if not positive, at least neutral.
3. Angry outbursts. These are HUGE love-busters for everybody, so if he gets angry, walk away. If you start to get angry, walk away. Don't let anger ruin a productive conversation. My technique is to say, "I don't feel safe in this conversation anymore. I need to go elsewhere for a while."
There are at least two other big Love Busters that he's currently engaging in, which you must watch yourself about:
4. Independent Behavior. This is behavior that would hurt your spouse if your spouse knew about it. "Revenge Affairs", or RAs, fall into this category. For the time being, avoid seeking solace with any man. Avoid behavior that will hurt him... with two important exceptions, also detailed below.
5. Dishonesty. Be honest about yourself with him, share how you feel, but try to do it in a way that does not demand he change, show disrespect, or result in an angry outburst. If he tries to "fix" you by telling you you should not feel the way you do, one good response is "I'd love it if you wouldn't try to tell me how I feel."
REQUIREMENTS FOR RECOVERY
Be clear with him about what you expect as a bare minimum if there's to be any hope of recovering your marriage from his infidelity. These are statements of your needs, not demands from him, but he will try to call you various names when you state them. "Controlling", "demanding", "crazy", "jealous", and "overbearing" typically top the list. Be prepared. Here are the typical three requirements for recovery:
1. That he never see or communicate with the other woman in any way at all, ever again. This includes Extraordinary Precautions to prevent further contact. Every wayward will try to negotiate some reason for keeping the other person in their life: job requirements, that the affair was emotional but not physical, or physical but not emotional, or some other excuse. You cannot possibly recover if the other woman is in either of your lives. Thus you implement Extraordinary Precautions to preclude another affair... and these EPs even work during times of extreme stress once properly implemented!
2. That he commits to absolute, radical honesty with you. Dr. Harley calls this "transparency." This includes telling him everything about himself that he knows about himself, you knowing all of his passwords, having an expectation that you will snoop on him without telling him how, and so forth. He will rebuild trust with you by showing he is trustworthy and radically honest with you about his feelings at all times.
3. That he commits to a marital recovery program of your choice. Of course, most of us recommend Dr. Harley's courses, mentioned here:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi9000_courses.html . My wife and I are following "Program #1", because we felt that we were both very motivated to recover. However, if you or your spouse are not motivated to recover, Dr. Harley recommends you pursue one of the options that have more accountability coaching to help you slog through those motivational swamps.
THE NECESSARY LOVE BUSTERS
There are a few -- very few -- Love Busters that a betrayed spouse should probably engage in to preserve their marriage. They are calculated, done with foresight, and are done in order to prevent much greater Love Busters from either partner in the future. I like to think of them as "peeling back the tape and gauze to treat the open wound with a raging infection underneath". The affair is the infection... and although these Love Busters may cause some temporary pain, they are necessary.
1. Exposure. You've already received a lot of advice on this. It will make your husband hate you. Many wayward spouses consider this a greater betrayal than the affair. But exposing the truth far and wide in a "nuclear" fashion -- like ripping off the band-aid quickly, rather than slowly -- will ultimately be the one action you can take that may swiftly and decisively end the affair.
2. Snooping. Radical Honesty is an important part of Dr. Harley's program... but don't give away how you keep tabs of your husband. If he knows, he can push the affair further underground. You need intelligence on who the affair partner is and how they communicate, and should work to preserve that knowledge. Ideally, you should come to a mutually-enthusiastic agreement on snooping, but a wayward is unlikely to agree to that until they are well into recovery. You have a right to know what is going on in your own life, and your husband's affair is very much part of your life. He has no right to "privacy" on any behavior that affects both of you. And since pretty much everything a spouse does affects their partner, your spouse has no right to secrecy from YOU, ever.
===============
THE PLAN
So you have the basic ingredients of a recovery plan: basic requirements for recovery that you will try to persuade him to follow over the next several weeks. What behavior to refrain from while in this persuading period. And what the exceptions are to that behavior.
Even if he agrees to your requirements, you haven't given up the option of divorce. You can choose it at any time, though certain "at-fault" options are typically closed to you a few months after discovery.
You will have many, many opportunities to choose divorce. You have only a very narrow window to choose recovery. Choose wisely.
_________________________
He needs one.
Send him here to MB - and he could ask another WH (like TST or LousyGolferr) to post to him.
The last two hours of the past weekend, when The Leopard and her BPD daughter were tearing the wall plates off the bathroom switches and grabbing anything that wasn't tied down, I lovebusted BIG TIME.
Why?
Because you are divorcing by choice. Who cares what you say to your STBXW!
Traci is in recovery. An entirely different set of behaviors is in order.
Lovebusting advice for a woman early in recovery, is not conducive to Traci's goal. ~~~> Marriage recovery.
If Traci had decided she was ready for divorce .... she can LoveBust his butt from here to Tuesday ... no one cares.
But, that's not the case.
The last two hours of the past weekend, when The Leopard and her BPD daughter were tearing the wall plates off the bathroom switches and grabbing anything that wasn't tied down, I lovebusted BIG TIME.
Why?
Because you are divorcing by choice. Who cares what you say to your STBXW!
Traci is in recovery. An entirely different set of behaviors is in order.
Lovebusting advice for a woman early in recovery, is not conducive to Traci's goal. ~~~> Marriage recovery.
If Traci had decided she was ready for divorce .... she can LoveBust his butt from here to Tuesday ... no one cares.
But, that's not the case.
Pepper, I was talking only about my case and no one else's. I wouldn't dream of suggesting someone else LB if they were trying to save their marriage.
However, at the end of the day I don't feel good about the way I allowed myself to get dragged into the emotional gutter with The Leopard. I'd like to think I could be above that, and I wasn't. Yes, it felt good, and yes it brought to me a sense of closure. But I still feel "dirty" about doing so.
If that makes me a doormat or a fool, so be it. I could have taken the high road and I chose not to.
Everybody makes mistakes when under extreme emotional duress.
Me, personally, I do not think it is wise to direct WH to this site for a few reasons:
1) He's still too foggy and there's nothing more frustrating than trying to educate a wayward;
2) He's probably not convinced that he needs to change. The a "just happened" and it's better to sweep it under the rug.
3) If he's still in contact with OW, he'll tell her about this site and she'll try to hack into your thread. OW may use your own words against you.
4) Your H isn't strong enough to post on the board. He can barely cope with your bending over backwards to Plan A him. If he gets one bit of criticism or reads one article that says his marriage MAY not be savagable, he'll run with it.
I'm the queen of false recovery. Same words were spoken by my WH. And he WORRIED about OW -- how was she coping without him, what was she doing, would she find someone else and give up on THEM -- yuck! And I KNEW when we were intimate, that he wasn't himself. He had a funny look in his eyes.
Take a really good look into your husband's eyes. Are they the same -- or do they look different?
You need a plan, as suggested. And he needs to WANT to implement it. Traci -- I swear -- I had so many people trying to help me -- his family, my family, a counselor, our priest, our kids. And he still went back to her multiple times because she wasn't giving up. She made herself available and, frankly, I couldn't monitor him 24/7. He'd go to work, tell me he was having lunch with a buddy... and I'd find out two days later that he had lunch and "dessert" with OW while I was SUPPOSE to be trusting him.
And he SWORE to our kids and our priest that he was committed to recovery. SWORE TO A PRIEST.
I don't know what to tell you. I wish we had gone away together. I wish he and I stood together before OW and he said straight to her face "It's over. Move on. I'm committed to my family. I will never see you again."
Schoolbus had a post on how to know when he's done with OW. Something about he has to COMPLAIN about OW. And OW's wails are louder than yours. And he has to tell you THEIR story. And he has to get to the part where he says "it ended and I'm not going back."
People can 2X4 me all they want... but I went through false recoveries for an entire year. He started off nice, and sincere... and I felt sorry for him and the "rocks in his head." I was the patient wife. I took him back each and every time. But when he left the last time -- he said he was making his final decision and I needed to "let him go."
And he's been gone a year and he's MEAN. He's doing everything in his power to financially break me and our kids. And my crime was trying to recovery our marriage and keep our family together.
Me, personally, I do not think it is wise to direct WH to this site for a few reasons:
1) He's still too foggy and there's nothing more frustrating than trying to educate a wayward;
2) He's probably not convinced that he needs to change. The a "just happened" and it's better to sweep it under the rug.
3) If he's still in contact with OW, he'll tell her about this site and she'll try to hack into your thread. OW may use your own words against you.
4) Your H isn't strong enough to post on the board. He can barely cope with your bending over backwards to Plan A him. If he gets one bit of criticism or reads one article that says his marriage MAY not be savagable, he'll run with it.
I'm the queen of false recovery. Same words were spoken by my WH. And he WORRIED about OW -- how was she coping without him, what was she doing, would she find someone else and give up on THEM -- yuck! And I KNEW when we were intimate, that he wasn't himself. He had a funny look in his eyes.
Take a really good look into your husband's eyes. Are they the same -- or do they look different?
You need a plan, as suggested. And he needs to WANT to implement it. Traci -- I swear -- I had so many people trying to help me -- his family, my family, a counselor, our priest, our kids. And he still went back to her multiple times because she wasn't giving up. She made herself available and, frankly, I couldn't monitor him 24/7. He'd go to work, tell me he was having lunch with a buddy... and I'd find out two days later that he had lunch and "dessert" with OW while I was SUPPOSE to be trusting him.
And he SWORE to our kids and our priest that he was committed to recovery. SWORE TO A PRIEST.
I don't know what to tell you. I wish we had gone away together. I wish he and I stood together before OW and he said straight to her face "It's over. Move on. I'm committed to my family. I will never see you again."
Schoolbus had a post on how to know when he's done with OW. Something about he has to COMPLAIN about OW. And OW's wails are louder than yours. And he has to tell you THEIR story. And he has to get to the part where he says "it ended and I'm not going back."
People can 2X4 me all they want... but I went through false recoveries for an entire year. He started off nice, and sincere... and I felt sorry for him and the "rocks in his head." I was the patient wife. I took him back each and every time. But when he left the last time -- he said he was making his final decision and I needed to "let him go."
And he's been gone a year and he's MEAN. He's doing everything in his power to financially break me and our kids. And my crime was trying to recovery our marriage and keep our family together.
Recovery sounds more risky than getting married in the first place!! YIKES!! Thats just too much abuse..DUDE
Thanks everyone for your input, I appreciate it. Had another talk with H when he asked me what I was doing just standing there in the kitchen. I told him I was just thinking and he wanted to know what I was thinking about and I told him, it just spilled out. He told me I could have access to all his email accounts and to his phone. He understood why I wanted this and didn't complain at all. I also told him he had to work on our marriage at the same time he got over OW and that he was obsessing over her and his feelings for her. He said that he wasn't obsessing and I told him to just get over her and go on "just like you told me to about you." I think that got his attention. I did tell him earlier that if he left again that I didn't want any contact with him again. I told him that I couldn't handle being just friends with him the pain would be too great. He wants to at least be friends if it doesn't work out andhe just doesn't get it. I can't just be friends with someone I love with every fiber of my being. At least if I have no contact I have a chance to heal and go on with my life because if I have any contact at all it would be like ripping the dressing off of a very large wound and opening it up again and making it bleed. My H has no clue about what he has done to me even though he says he knows he hurt me badly but he has no idea how bad.
I am going to try my best to get my marriage back with the man I love.
Still hoping and praying.
Traci,
I don't think I have posted to you before but I want you to know that I am rooting for you so much.
I was talking to someone yesterday who said that WS is so lucky to have me as a friend because I have so much compassion. This is true but I said that I couldn't be his friend if we divorced because I want to be his wife as well. I don't think they understood where I was coming from and I don't think anyone would unless they have been in our position both physically and mentally. I just want you to know that you are not alone in feeling this way and there are lots of us here who understand how much it hurts to have someone want you to be their friend when you want to be their wife.
Take care
TM
He feels like he was some kind of good guy with OW. He is confused in this.
He needs to take his concerns for the OW to God and let it go right there.
Hisfantasy that he had with the OW is clouding his mind and his talking to you about it is hurting you.
The recovery process and thematerials Dr H puts out will help him.
I don't remember if you guys are seeing Dr H but you should.
He needs to see how much this hurts you and he also needs to see that he should be caring for you.
Remember ppl telling you to let him do most of the heavy lifting? This is part of it.
I don't think he is ready to post here either.
At the very least maybe you should tell him not to tell you about every feeling he is having. Tell him to take it to a counselor and really, tell him its to painful to hear.
If he wont take this step I wonder how much he is able to love you Traci
Still prayin for U2
Tracy and others,
I just don't get why we keep refering to the fantasy of the A in this case. Your H lived his fantasy with her for a few months and then decided to come back. So isn't the fantasy sort of bursted by now?
What can your H hope to have with OW that he has not already experienced by living with her and her kids?
Why don't you ask him that?
And he is still giving you the "I hope to be friends" line.
That must be painful Tracy. Hang in there.
blessing
Tracys H has some seriuos self confidance issues IMO. She has been the leader in most of the marriage I think. Of course I may be way off base with that.
So what I am suggesting is that it will take some time for him to understand that his insecuritys are hurting his wife and his marriage. Nevermind how he is selling himself short.
I think that he needs to stand up and fight for traci instaed of hiding out in his head thinking he is the good guy.
Just my opinion
So far so good today. Been doing fine and so has my H. I have decided to just be myself(which I always have) and meet his ENs without being obvious. I am going to be sneaky and do things to the point that he won't know what hit him.
Had a little LB on Tuesday when I just grilled him about stuff I discovered on his email account that he left open. It wasn't anything bad but I just wanted answers and I erased anything I found from OW that was old and new. OW isn't exactly emailing him but is sending stuff that she gets. I told him that she needed to stop or I would do it myself. He never opened the emails he got from her because it all went to a delete section. I will continue to snoop when I feel like it. Told H that at least when I look I ask questions and don't let it build up inside and that he should understand where I am coming from. He said he understood.
Still hoping and praying.
No he hasn't sent her a letter but told her when he got all his stuff from her place that he could never have any contact with her ever again. That was when he came home. So far I know he hasn't seen her or received any calls or texts from her. I do check his phone when he is in the shower every day. I am going to get a copy of his cell phone bill from his job. He has Verizon through them and they can print up individual phone usages. I know this because we use the same company and that is how I discovered his affair. If she tries to send anything to my H again I will take care of it myself.
Today was the first time that I have felt happy in a long time. I felt good today and I am going to be happy no matter what happens and it is going to show and my H is going to see this and wonder what is going on.
Still hoping and praying.
Yay Traci!!
The letter is probably a good idea anyway cuz if OW starts to imagine or fantasize about your FWH she can pull out the letter,(which she will), and read the words that he told her about his regret. It also makes an internal commitment in him that he can stand on. Words count.
Hang in there Traci--you're doing great! Enjoy your weekend.
H went out with 2 of his friends who are his partners too. I did encourage him to get close to them so he would have someone who is male to talk to. He said he would stay in contact the whole time he was gone and would not stay out late. So far he stays in constant contact with me throughout the day. I now it has only been 3 weeks since he has been back but I just wish we could just move forward. Right now we are at a stand still until he can get past his feelings for "her". Until he can get past that he will never understand what is going on. He feels that if one or both of them didn't have those feelings still then he could get past it. He says the only reason they broke up was because neither one of them could deal with the guilt. I told him that I bet she would get over it before he would. I didn't tell him this but I bet she either gets back with her husband or she is dating someone else within 6 months.
Still hoping and praying.
You are doing awesome Traci.
I think you might be underestimating how long the fog can last. It literally took my H over a year and even today he will say one thing that just still is so wayward. Keep up what you are doing because it is clearly working and leave him to G-d.
I can promise you, G-d is over here working on him too.
I'm so happy for you.
Queenie, I hate to say this but when my H called me around the time it would take him to get where he was going I got real suspicious. I went for a ride to the OW apartment complex looking for my H truck. It wasn't there but I saw him on the balcony in the dark. I know his form anywhere. He never saw my car right under his nose. The 2nd time I passed I saw he was texting me. He asked me what I was doing and I told him "watching you". He didn't get it until I text him about why he was there. When he didn't answer I called him. I toldhim I wasn't stupid. He said he never planned on going there until his friend decided they weren't going to where they were going. He tried to explain saying he had only been there a little while and that he was trying to close the door with her to move on with me. Told him I didn't believe him and he wouldn't either if he was me. It really hurt and I am very disappointed but not surprised. Right now I am hurting and very angry. At least now I know where the OW lives. I am going to take care of her and don't worry I am not going to do anything stupid or physical. But by the time I get through with her, she will be the one crying not me.
Totally pissed!
OMG Traci, I am so sorry for you. WOW. I am in SHOCK.
I can just imagine how angry you are right now.
(((((( TRACI ))))))
What are your plans now?
I wish I could offer some advice to you.
You are in my thoughts.
I am so sorry. Please be careful. You are angry... and with good right.
I know exactly how you feel. It was done to me over and over again. That's why I warned you.
Now's the time to grow some big hairy ones. Be tough. Do not let this slide or he will do this again. I'm not sure if it's the MB way, but I wish I had confronted OW and told her to back off.
And WH? Perhaps you need to pack up his shet and leave it in the apartment parking lot with a sign... FREE.
Hes still in the fog. Does he reaalize yet that he is posponing the inevitable?
No, he is too stupid right now. I have told a him and told him and it isn't sinking in. It probably will when it is too late. Idiot still thinks he needs to "close the door" on her and his feelings. Bull crap! He never got to do that because he left 30 min or so after I did(he says). Don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.
I have had only about 2 hrs sleep and I am going to be running on anger today. Have to work a 12 hr shift today and off tomorrow. I'll be fine.
Sent an email to OW telling her to lay off. Next I'll call her if I have to and then I'll go see her. I've got all 3 of her email addresses and her phone number. And thanks to my H I now know where she lives.
Still pissed!
Tell him its simple. He writes a NC letter with you and thats the last he ever talks to her ever in his life.
Then ya mail the letter
No, he is too stupid right now. I have told a him and told him and it isn't sinking in. It probably will when it is too late. Idiot still thinks he needs to "close the door" on her and his feelings. Bull crap! He never got to do that because he left 30 min or so after I did(he says). Don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth.
I have had only about 2 hrs sleep and I am going to be running on anger today. Have to work a 12 hr shift today and off tomorrow. I'll be fine.
Sent an email to OW telling her to lay off. Next I'll call her if I have to and then I'll go see her. I've got all 3 of her email addresses and her phone number. And thanks to my H I now know where she lives.
Still pissed!
Excellent choice! (going home instead of going nutz on 'em). Sorry about the lost sleep.
You can never seem to make that up.
You handled it perfectly.
More vets, more advice.
I think, you and your H need to discuss and negotiate about moving far away from her so he finds it much less simple to wind up on her balcony.
Yk?
Sucks but if he is serious about rebuilding the marriage, he will negotiate a good new home with you. One you both can agree wholeheartedly to.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{TRACI))))))))))))))
I'm sorry that you had to go through that. How hard it must have been for you.
I had the very same thing happen to me. WH told me OW was out of his life, but one Monday morning I sent him an email and his response was totally wayward. I KNEW it that moment she was involved some way. I literally happened to take a drive up to the grocery store because it was summer and I could, and there was his car. So I went in the store and saw him, but as soon as I could get away from who I was talking to he was GONE.
So I emailed him. Turns out she was with him in the store. She had to have a medical procedure done and HE WAS THE ONLY ONE who would help her. I was pretty crushed, but I sought G-d for help.
I explained to WH that he had a line of coke right in front of him and the straw was just about to touch it and he was in serious trouble. He might not even get how serious. Now remember he has already been broken up with her for over 5 months at the time and he still was so vulnerable.
I took my shot. I asked him if he was willing to accept all my conditions on recovery. I knew he wasn't because he asked what they were. I told him and I could sense there was an attitude to his writing. I stood my ground. Told him where I would be and if he chose he could meet me there.
That was the night I stood my ground about recovery. She was GONE, a no contact letter had to be written, he had to go back to AA and work a program, etc.
This can be just a set back, not the end of things if you seek G-d and ask him how to walk through this. He has the plans, he knows what he wants you to do next ask him. PLEASE TRUST G-d.
I got down on my knees this morning and prayed to God for help. I told Him that I was placing everything in his hands and told him what I wanted too. Asked Him again to take my H into his arms and protect him and to open his heart to me and close it to her. I asked for a new marriage that was stronger, better and more satisfying between my H and myself. Told God that I wanted to be closer to H mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. I know if I give it over to God that everything will turn out right because God hates divorce and wants marriages to thrive. It is man who screws everything up.
Have been talking a lot again with H especially about Friday night. He still says he wants closure with OW because he feels that if he can get closure that we could move on. He said if they had had a big blow up, or one or both had a change in their feelings then he could move on a little easier. I told him that if they really thought they could make it then they wouldn't have broke up and if he didn't love and care for me then he wouldn't have come home. I told him that in the end that he chose me and that should tell him something. He is in the fog real deep and now we have to start over from scratch and I told him that. He keeps telling me that he loves and cares for me but not in the way a husband should for his wife. He is such an idiot.
Still hoping and praying.
I was afraid of this. I heard the same words... exactly. And they broke up 5 times.... which means he came back home 5 times. And he did better staying away from me each time than staying away from her.
And her. It's not suppose to be about her, but she is manipulative. She will say things to him like "I just want you to be happy", and "You're wife is trying to make you feel guilty" and "You deserve to be happy." All crap that will brainwash him into believeing that life is better on the other side -- away from his family.
And she will appear "weak" and "stuggling" without him around to help her financially and emotionally. And she'll hint at needing to find another man to meet her needs. And he will panic that he may be losing an opportunity for a new lease on life.
Traci -- I KNOW this because this is my life. My WH could not stay away from OW. And she kept herself available.
Keep praying.
I can't believe it. I know this sounds stupid but I asked God for a sign and for help and I think I got it in all places on Facebook. I just happen to go on there for kicks and giggles to see what everyone was up to and notice that someone had posted their horoscope. I just clicked on it and looked mine up(I don't believe in that stuff) and it told me that I would note a positive turn in events and signs of good hope and that I should stay the course even when obstacles arise. To keep my eyes on the goal and that I should probably give it more time and if I surrendered that i would lose everything I had been working for. I wasn't expecting that. I looked up H too and his went hand in hand with mine for him. I am not a believer in horoscopes but I do think it was a message for me not to give up.
It is probably stupid to think God sent that as a message but He works in mysterious ways.
Still hoping and praying.
I know that my previous post was goofy or stupid sounding but it made my day to read that horoscope. Believe me, I am not a believer in them and I won'tbe checking my horoscope everyday. I might go months before I look at one again and I promise you this it will either wrong or stupid or even both.
....
Have been talking a lot again with H especially about Friday night. He still says he wants closure with OW because he feels that if he can get closure that we could move on. He said if they had had a big blow up, or one or both had a change in their feelings then he could move on a little easier. ...
God never said that horoscopes did not have a shred of truth in them. He simply says that they are not the way that leads to spiritual life. Take everything in thats positive Traci.
Ok short story. When my wife andi were first together she had a problem with alcohol. After two years of watching and waiting for her to pull her crap together I finally left as she got worse.
I thought I would never go back to the marriage. I had no plans to be with anyone else but after 6 mos I got invoolved with another woman. I was with her for about a year. While this was going on OW kept saying she wanted to be married to me. I said no way. I already had 3 children an no carreer and I couldn't handle the stress of a relationship any more. My Wife was telling me to come home and that she hadn't drank in 1 1/2 years and she wanted to start fresh. I didn't beleive her either.
I was torn between going back or getting divorced and being with New woman. The OW kept asking me "what if you could forget all that happened in the past and start new?" Inside I knew the answer was if that was posible I should do that with my wife, not with OW.
The OW eventually on advice of her counselor who we met with told her to have no more contact with me because I was just to screwed up. He was right.
After 6 mos of soul-searching and questioning everything that I knew I went back home to wife. We had another son and 10 years of a muc more healthy andfufilling marriage than I ever had before.
He is getting his "Me in drama" fix Traci. The sad-sack misery that he has with OW is in his fantasy something he wants desparatly feels gives him some validation for his emotions. He needs to stay away from her.
I got down on my knees this morning and prayed to God for help. I told Him that I was placing everything in his hands and told him what I wanted too. Asked Him again to take my H into his arms and protect him and to open his heart to me and close it to her. I asked for a new marriage that was stronger, better and more satisfying between my H and myself. Told God that I wanted to be closer to H mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritually. I know if I give it over to God that everything will turn out right because God hates divorce and wants marriages to thrive. It is man who screws everything up....
Still hoping and praying.
I loved this and I will be praying for you guys too
(((Traci)))
I'm so sorry you've had this setback. Please know that it is very common and part of the process. This "closure" he's looking for will never come.
He needs to understand that somethings don't close--they fade with time, but they never close. A strongly worded no contact letter is MANDATORY at this point. Several excellent ones are available on this site.
Like I said before, you really need both of you to talk to Steve Harley so that your H hears it from an unbiased source. Steve will tell hime that the "closure" is a cop out and that he needs to protect you from his weaknesses. He'll say a lot more, I'm sure, but I'm not the expert.
I am going to have H write a NC letter and I'll make sure it is sent. So far he hasn't had anymore contact with OW. I showed H a thread from a WS on notable posts about the same thing he was talking about and all the responses were from WS and they felt the same as him and their response was no contact what so ever no matter what if they wanted their marriage back.
Still hoping and praying.
Make sure you follow the NC letter script. There are some excellent examples on here somewhere. If you can't find them, let's start a new thread and have people post to it. There should be no excusing each other's behavior. No last unrequited love crapola.
Today after talking to H I had made a decision to have him leave and move in someone he knows who is looking for a roomate. I even wrote him a 2 page letter telling him exactly how I felt and wanting him to get his head out of his butt or over his fog. Told him that I loved him and would always love him but that he had to make a decision as to what he wanted to do because I am tired of hurting. Also told him that I was 1000% better than OW and she wasn't even in the same class as me and I didn't appreciate the comparisons he made between us. I even said that he had destroyed me with what he had done and had torn my heart out. Even said that I had finally gotten my self confidence and self esteem back that he had destroyed. I said that when he was over "her" and wanted to work on us to let me know. I folded said letter up and put it in my purse to give to him tonight. Funny thing is, is that DD 19, who just went in to the Air Force last week called my cell phone at 2:05 today. My phone, which is never out of my uniform pocket was out and lying on the counter. I saw that I had a message at 2:10 and DD 19 was crying on it and saying she would probably be home in less than a month. I never gave him the letter because of that. I feel that I wasn't suppose to give it to him, at least not yet. I'm going to keep trying. This is so nerve wracking and tiring. I am not sure which was worse, plan B or trying to recover my marriage.
I am not sure if God is trying to tell me something or not, but I feel that everytime I try to give up something happens to stop me.
Still hoping and praying.
I would say they are all hard in their own forms.
Traci, I really hope you know what you are doing.
Must be tough that DD is in crisis at the same time.
I like it that you are telling H he needs to reach down between his legs and grab his ears so he can pull head out o' butt.
As long as you keep your self-respect and are willing to work on the marriage relationship I guess it might be a good idea for him to go to friends house. But then what about building up the love bank?
I would defer this question to Doc H and company.
God Bless
You have every right to let him know how you feel. If there are no ultimatums in it- I t hink a letter is a great way to tell him how you feel. Like the comparisons of OW to you. He may not know how this hurts you (duh). I respect that you are putting up boundries, but, Traci, the FOG can last months.
You know that, right?
If you stay away from DJ's (ok maybe a few at OW) and AO- girl, you are fine. Is he still moving out?
Traci, I was very happy to hear that you didn't give him the note. As I was reading your post, I was thinking, "No, no, no! Don't let him out of the house."
Right now, your H is troubled, but the way to marital recovery is for him to understand YOU can fill his lovebank. That won't happen when he's at a friend's house, pining over the skank. He'll continue contact with her, letting HER fill his lovebank. That's what's wrong with the situation.
Please review the well-written NC notes here first, have your H write one, it's very cathartic for both of you. (That ~~~closure~~~ thing)
Try that first. If you move him out of the house, you might as well go into dark plan B and start all over again. Right now you have logistics on your side--he's LIVING with you.
Have you exposed to OW's family yet? I can't remember. If not, think about facebook or whatever to let them know that you'd appreciate it if she'd keep her hands off your H as you are working to recover.
Don't worry about pride and such--this is not about you. Your H has a weak character right now, and you're trying to get it back on track. Nothing to be ashamed of.
Also, sending out some postive thoughts for your DD. If she's half as strong as you, she'll buck up and survive.
Traci, I was very happy to hear that you didn't give him the note. As I was reading your post, I was thinking, "No, no, no! Don't let him out of the house."
Right now, your H is troubled, but the way to marital recovery is for him to understand YOU can fill his lovebank. That won't happen when he's at a friend's house, pining over the skank. He'll continue contact with her, letting HER fill his lovebank. That's what's wrong with the situation.
Please review the well-written NC notes here first, have your H write one, it's very cathartic for both of you. (That ~~~closure~~~ thing)
Try that first. If you move him out of the house, you might as well go into dark plan B and start all over again. Right now you have logistics on your side--he's LIVING with you.
Have you exposed to OW's family yet? I can't remember. If not, think about facebook or whatever to let them know that you'd appreciate it if she'd keep her hands off your H as you are working to recover.
Don't worry about pride and such--this is not about you. Your H has a weak character right now, and you're trying to get it back on track. Nothing to be ashamed of.
Also, sending out some postive thoughts for your DD. If she's half as strong as you, she'll buck up and survive.
My thoughts exactly
I never gave H the letter that I wrote yesterday. I kinda figured that if he left he would go back to seeing OW. Right now I am trying to figure out my strategy. I am going to suggest we rent a motorcycle next weekend and spend the day riding with me behind him. I don't like motorcycles but I am willing to put that aside for us to spend time together and me to be able to keep my hands on him. This should shock and please him. We could have a really nice day doing this.
DD 19 is coming home on Monday. Not really quite sure what happened but I'll figure this out when she gets home. She sounded so beaten when she called me today. My heart just ached for her.
Still hoping and praying.
Hey Traci,
I haven't kept up with your thread in a bit because, frankly, it seemed like things were looking quite promising.
I agree with the others that achieving your goal is easier with him living at home than out and about somewhere else. That's been a major hurdle for me.
Very sorry to hear about the setback.
Keep it up, Traci.
TB
I am not giving up. I am in this for the long haul. I do have my ups and downs and that is tiring. I think everytime I feel like giving up I just need to take a step back and look at everything. I just need to take a deep breath and continue on. I guess I need to remember that he chose me and not her no matter what comes out of his mouth. Because like I said, ifhe thought he could make it work with her then he wouldn't have come back and if he didn't love me or care for me(which is more than he thinks and realizes) he wouldn't have been wracked with guilt and stress and thought of me every day. I know that he is in a deep fog and that it is going to takes months before he is going to start to come out of it. Once he starts coming out of the fog he will finally realize how much he does love me and that everything that I have been saying is true.
Still hoping and praying.
Sounds good Traci,
Triggers will occur through life now that this has happened to you guys. Both of you will have to learn how to deal with them and I am sure that H will eventually pull out of it.
I goofed last night, major LB. I wanted to have a drink or 2 last night after working four 12hour shifts in a row at the hospital. H said he a bottle of rum in his truck that he hadn't brought in yet. H got me a coke on his way home. He forgot to bring the rum in and I was going to get the keys and bring it in and he said he would do it and since I was already up I said no I would do it. He insisted he would do it and I got suspiscious. I said ok then he said well you can go out there with me and I said no. Later on I found his keys and thought this would be the perfect time to check his truck because he was out back smoking. I found nothing and got caught. Boy, was he mad! He asked me what I was doing and I told him the truth, I was looking for a 2nd phone(he did this before). He told me I shouldn't have done that and if I thought something was up that he would have taken me out to the truck and let me check it out. He said he understood that I have problems with trust and even though he wouldn't have been happy about it he would have let me because he had nothing to hide. I actually feel bad about what I did and wish that I had never done it. I brought up last week to him and he keeps telling me he was doing that for us. I just ignored that response because I will never get him to realize that what he did was wrong. I told him after last week that I think he will get in contact with her again and he won't tell me because he wasn't going to tell me he saw her last week if I hadn't caught him. H says he is being open and honest about everything and that we have been talking more than we ever have before and that if I ever have suspicions again to tell him so we can get everything cleared up.
Still hoping and praying.
He insisted he would do it and I got suspiscious. . . .
Boy, was he mad! He asked me what I was doing and I told him the truth, I was looking for a 2nd phone(he did this before). He told me I shouldn't have done that and if I thought something was up that he would have taken me out to the truck and let me check it out. He said he understood that I have problems with trust and even though he wouldn't have been happy about it he would have let me because he had nothing to hide.
H says he is being open and honest about everything and that we have been talking more than we ever have before and that if I ever have suspicions again to tell him so we can get everything cleared up.
Traci, you have done nothing wrong. Your husband's response--putting you on the defensive, trying to control how much you get to see into his life--tells me that you had better get to snooping again. There is no doubt in my mind that he is hiding his continued involvement with OW--I mean, come on--"oh, yes I am honest and open, but OH NO don't you
dare go into my truck unless I am there to direct things."
People with nothing to hide, hide nothing. Liars have a problem with trust from the people they lied to--not surprisingly.
Set the bar for his return much higher. Complete transparency and he needs to lose the tude.
Tracy, IMO he needs to make a 180 degree turnaround.
He has to want to be with you and save the M and beg you to help him do that, not the other way around!. Less than that and he is going to be back at square one in no time either with same OW or in another A. I can tell you this from my first hand experience with H first A. Set the bar really high.
blessing
I actually feel bad about what I did and wish that I had never done it.
You did not goof.
You do not trust.
It's OK.
It takes YEARS to restore trust.
Y E A R S
This is why RECOVERY is so damn difficult.
There is a push/pull of emotions and expectations equally seasoned with hopes and suspicions.
Tell H that you are moving along this process at the proper speed FOR YOU.
Tell H that the forum says you are doing JUST FINE.
if I ever have suspicions again to tell him so we can get everything cleared up
Checking up on him is a relief of your anxiety.
It does increase his anxiety.
If YOU DECIDE that asking him about some suspicion will help your anxiety, go in that direction.
If YOU DECIDE checking up on him yourself will help your anxiety, go in that direction.
H does not get to decide how your anxiety is best served.
Tuff toenails.
Tell H "Thank you for the offer. I'll consider that as one option next time I feel anxious and suspicious."
Do NOT make a promise to ask him first. That is premature.
Love returns to the recovery process quickly.
Trust crawls at a snail's pace.
It is not a bad thing.
It is not a good thing.
It is a fact.
Love returns to the recovery process quickly.
Trust crawls at a snail's pace.
It is not a bad thing.
It is not a good thing.
It is a fact.
What she said..
Try to look at it like you finnally see that there is an enemy stalking your marriage that you both never saw before and that your fear is well founded. He fell victem as you did.
H wanted to know what everyone's response was to what I had posted and I read to him what I posted and everyone's response. He liked Pepper's response the best and said that she was levelheaded. H said that he didn't care if I search everything and anything but he didn't like the way I went about it. He does agree with Pepper though and that is a start.
Still hoping and praying.
H wanted to know what everyone's response was to what I had posted and I read to him what I posted and everyone's response. He liked Pepper's response the best and said that she was levelheaded. H said that he didn't care if I search everything and anything but he didn't like the way I went about it. He does agree with Pepper though and that is a start.
Still hoping and praying.
"Hiya"
'PB', I love that post about trust, its perfect.
Do you mind if I use it in my signature area? I will remove it if you want?
I so wish that I had read your posts on trust two and a half years ago, Pep. I often felt almost overwhelming guilt checking up on FWH when he was trying soooo hard. Even today, your post brought tears to my eyes.
I always take your posts very much to heart as we are just about the same age. Thank you for taking your time to help.
God's Blessing,
Say
'PB', I love that post about trust, its perfect.
Do you mind if I use it in my signature area? I will remove it if you want?
I "borrow" other people's words for my sig line all the time.
Use away.
I love plaugerizing. It makes me look like I am so smart.
I have this theory that everything worth saying and every story that has a lesson in it has already been told before and the great poets,teachers are really just smart in that they are observant enough to re-write the storys in modern terms and culture.
That in itself is a talent and a skill, but the depth of the meaning is plagurized from common life experiances.
It comforts me also to know that in tough times although my life with its specific circumstances and my individual human makeup and/or uniqeness is different from anyone else in history as we all are. The same problems and troubles have been experienced by others and can effect anyone.
We all need each other
Traci,
Trust is earned, not given.
Just this past week, your H proved he still cannot be trusted.
He needs to feel comfortable being monitored for the foreseeable future. This monitoring will actually help you recover, and he should understand that.
Anytime you want, go check that truck and any other hidey-holes he has.
You're doing it because you want to SAVE your M, not destroy it.
Feeling a little better today. I am going to ask my H for his phone tonight when he gets home and check it. If he has nothing to hide then he will turn it over without any problem. Right now H seems to be doing better and is more relaxed. He is starting to sleep a little more and better. Will keep an eye on him as I don't trust him and don't expect to right now. That will take TIME.
Plan on surprising H this weekend by renting a motorcycle and go riding on Saturday. As I have written before I am riding behind him and that is because I don't drive motorcycles. Hoping to persuade H to go to a Mardi Gras celebration Friday evening on the beach at a large area that is full of shops and resturants and is a great place to have some fun.
Still hoping and praying.
Checked H phone and found nothing. I am not even sneaking. I just picked it up and looked. I figured if he caught me I would have told him that you said I could look. I do look when he is not around so as not to cause any strife but I am not sneaking because I don't care if he sees me.
DD 19 came home last night. She said she couldn't handle all the screaming and yelling in basic and all she did was cry. She said it reminded her of her Dad. I hope H took note of this. I do have to admit he hasn't been like that in years. He has mellowed out a lot over the past 5 yrs with just a few explosions. I feel bad for her. She now has to find a job and try to get back in school this fall.
Still hoping and praying.
Not everyone is cut out for a military career. I know I couldn't take it, either. The physical wouldn't bother me, but the verbal abuse would be tough. Also, if I thought I was smarter than my superior, it would be tough to conceal my contempt
But I am so glad for all the folks who CAN make the sacrifices to be in the military. She'll find something else.
Good news, DD 19 has an interview at the hospital where I work. She is applying for a part time unit secretary position in my unit. It is only 48hrs every 2 weeks and she has to work 2 days and 2 nights. I told her she could pick up hours anywhere in the hospital if she wanted full time hours. She is so excited. This week has not been good. She came home Monday, her boyfriend broke up with her on Tuesday, and she found out Thursday that she owes the IRS about $90(she was hoping to get some back). I hope she gets the job because she could use something good happening to her.
Talked to H yesterday about me going to Mobile overnight on March 25th with the girls from work to see Jeff Dunham, the comedian. He doesn't care if I go but I told him I wouldn't go if he didn't want me to and he said he still didn't care. This got us talking about the POJA. We talked about it again this morning. I am taking it just one step at a time with him.
Still hoping and praying.
Talked to H today about him and about us. He feels if things haven't improved in a couple of months that he is moving out and getting a roommate. He says this isn't fair to me and that he isn't happy right now. He asked me what I thought about this and I told him that he had to do what he needed to do. I told him that he needed to go to IC and he asked what this would do and I told him to help him get through this. I emailed him "revised: A quick Guide on Withdrawal for FWS and BS". I don't know what else to do because I don't want to force him to stay. He told me that I have been wonderful and done so much to make him feel at home and to make him at ease. That there is nothing that I have done wrong. I just feel so lost right now. I have done everything right and have been meeting his emotional needs the best that I can and that he allows me to do. There is nothing else that I can do. He has to figure everything out on his own. All I can do is be there for us. I just hope he remembers that with me it is all or nothing. I cannot just be friends with someone that I want more from.
Still hoping and praying.
This is ringing alarm bells for me. He wants to move out and get a roommate "if things don't work out"?
No, if he cannot get past his feelings for OW. He thinks he should be getting over her already. Told him that everyone is different and that it could take months for him to get over her or even start to get over her.
I am still praying for him and for us. And for me as well.
I cannot tell him what he should do but just suggest it. He has to be the one to make up his mind. I know that eventually he will get there and I hope that I am around but I cannot promise anything. It hurts right now and I am so tired. As they say, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."
Still hoping and praying.
Traci,
Ask him to agree to 6 months of working on a plan to make your marriage one you can both be happy with. Then call the coaching center.
Tell him that if he gives you a real effort for 6 months, has absolutely NC at all with OW and does certain things that can help him to fall in love with you all over again, if after that time he is not willing to stay in the marriage you'll let him go.
Recovery will take longer than 6 months, but if he will let you both work a real plan to fall in love, THAT can happen in 6 months time. Half effort will result in failure.
Each identify and rank ENs.
Begin meeting those ENs for each other.
Eliminate Love Busters.
But you both have to do it together.
After things begin to improve, book a MB weekend.
It works...
I understand that you are tired, worn out and sick of fighting. Stop fighting and fix the problem. The problem is not being in love with each other. THAT can be fixed.
Divorce can happen any time. A marriage can only be saved during a narrow window of opportunity and only by following a specific plan.
Ask him to give you 15 hours per week working on a plan to fix it. Spend that 15 hours as UA time, meeting the intimate ENs and not talking about problems of the past or even the present.
The feeling of love is not magic, nor is it mystical, nor is it something that goes away and cannot return. It is the way our emotions react to someone doing things that make us happy.
Meet ENs
Avoid Love Busters.
Fall in love.
It works...
Last Wednesday night in our MB class at church, my wife again shared how our marriage was done, how she had nothing but contempt for me and how she was ready to walk away. She told of how I began to make changes to the way I did things, said things, showed her that I valued her and eliminated my thoughtless behaviors. She told about beginning to spend time together even though at first she'd rather be almost anywhere else other than with me. She ended by telling me that our marriage is better today than it ever was, even when brand new. We started with a commitment to try and give our best effort before divorcing and ended up falling in love.
It works...
We worked a plan. We're in love again.
It works...
Call for an appointment.
It works...
The questionnaires are not required, but they get to the results a lot faster. The paperwork means very little to the plan, but the plan works.
Get a plan and work it to the end, no matter what that end might be.
Mark
Boy, is my H an idiot. I finally kind of lost it tonight and let him know how I feel. I told him that it was all about him and that I was tired of him sitting on his butt like he always did and doing nothing. He said he couldn't do anything until he got over her and that I shouldn't talk about it now because he had several drinks and he might say something wrong. I let it all out. Told him that no matter what I say that he had to figure it out for himself and he agreed with me. I told him how he could want to be with someone who would lie and betray her own husband and how could he trust someone that would screw someone else's husband. I told him he couldn't because she could do it to him. I told him I wasn't going to say anything else becasue he would be mad and he asked if it was about him and I said no and he asked if it was about her and Isaid yes. In the end I told him that I was a better person than she was and he knew it. He didn't say anything when I left him sitting outside. I am so tired of it! I know I probably shouldn't have done what I did but right now I don't care. It should be about us and not him. Poor, poor, pitiful him.
That is the rollercoaster. Don't beat yourself up. You are a human being, not a robot.
It is not about the words you say (well most of the time) but you actions and treatment that are the loudest communicators.
You are doing great! You can always apologise later for losing your temper, that does not mean that the CONTENT of what you said was not real, or had valid points.
Good luck to your daughter.
I cannot get H to agree to anything. He is not going to go to IC and he thinks that things should already be improving since it has been 38 days. He will not listen to anything I say. He says that if nothing improves in a month or 2 that he is going to move out and get aplace of his own becasue it isn't fair to me. He says he has to get over her first before he can work on us. he isn't doing anything right now to work on us. I have no idea what to do. HE WON'T DO ANYTHING, HE REFUSES TO UNTIL HE GETS OVER "HER"! How can I meet his ENs if he won't let me. I am doing the best I can. I am keeping the house clean and don't ask him for help, I cook and do everything so his domestic needs are met. I try to give him affection which he turns away. He doesn't have to worry about money. I am open and honest with him. I talk to him about anything and everything. I cannot get him to really do anything with me and I even ask him what he would want to do. I am not even going to try for SF because I know he will turn me down and I don't need that. I have always been proud of him and I have told him that. So what else is there for me to do?
Still hoping and praying.
There will be NO response while he is in withdrawal. Plan A wont fly. Work on yourself, contact the ladies at your church. Become physically active. Nothing kills stress better than strenuous activity.
Do this before you become Achmat (I kill you).
Ha
Ha
You mean Achmed - the dead terrorist
H and I went to our friends and neighbors lastnight and played cards and really enjoyed ourselves, not only with our friends but with each other. Today we have already watched a movie together and talked about the movie during the movie. We liked to rent movies and talk during them unless it is real intense. The movie we watched was "Zombieland" so you know that wasn't a real intense movie.
H is going to a friend of his house this afternoon to watch the Superbowl and will come home at half-time. He is going over for the pregame stuff. I am going to cook up steaks, potatoes, and vegies for when he gets home.
Still hoping and praying.
Thinking of you. Keep your chin up.
H went to friend's house to watch the pregame and I went up town and did some shopping. After I got home text H twice with no answer and then I called him. He said he never got my text and that he was sorry. Probably telling the truth because where we live at sometimes my text messages don't reach the other person or I don't get them. H came home right then because he thought I was upset and I wasn't. He wanted to reassure me. Watched the Superbowl with H and we cheered the Saints on together. H asked if I was going to watch it without him and I said I was because the TV was on CBS when he came home.
Still hoping and praying.
Caught up on yur thread and my O is.
Marks advice is the most constructive and I would just be mimicking the same.
He is like a drug addict that ya take the drugs away but wont deal with what drove him to them in the first place.
You keep telling us he wont listen to you. thats par for the course.
All of this is par. its part of the recovery and the stuff about "Getting over her" means = "I was living in a afntasy and I wanna go back there" Maybe if I wait long enough the teacher will let me go home and I wont have to do my homework.
He still wants to escape Traci.
I hope you guys take Marks advice at least and Doc H will reveal any IC issues he sees.
You are doing good Traci, take care of yourself
How does you H respond to other losses during his life? I know his head is up his b***, but some people just do not bounce back as quickly as others.
When I was younger, loss did not take me down for long. As I got older and lost a Father, Mother, Brother and all grandparents (before 40), I find that any loss tends to "hang around" my mind longer and the recovery process is slower.
It does not matter what the loss is, I just don't take them as well.
But in H.S. It took me a long time to get over relationships, tho. (I was not a differnt guy different day kind) I expect that it is part of my nature (does not matter which BF, just losing any takes time.)
My point...if it is just your H personality to be a slow healer (and depression really adds a mess into the mix) he cannot expect himself to shake off his feelings in a few weeks.
I am not giving credit to the AP... it does not matter who she was.
Just a thought
What barb just said is also something to look at.
I think WH has depression probs. No Sin I have them too.
H told me this morning that he had made a big mistake by having an affair with OW. He said that he was wrong and that he regretted it. He said that he thought long and hard about everything and when he thought about what I said about him seeing OW if he moved out again he realized that he couldn't go back there again and could not see himself living with her ever again. I think that this is finally the first step on our road to recovery.
My BIL called me at work today to tell me thank you for being such a great person and taking his brother back. He said that he always loved me and that I always had a special place in his heart and now that place had gotten that much bigger. He said he couldn't have done what I did. He said that he kept telling H that he was one lucky guy. BIL also said that he knew true love when he saw it and that my love for his brother was true love. I almost cried.
Still hoping and praying.
BIL is a GOOD DUDE. Your H is lucky to have a brother like that. Praying for you.
YAY!
Traci,
I totally agree with Mark--You HAVE to get H into sessions with the Harleys. They will be the voice of reason. I don't care if you have to borrow the $$ from your BIL--get the money, and tell H that it is a CONDITION required for his return home. Tell him he won't be signing on to anything and there are no strings attached. ONE SESSION.
It will make a world of difference, I assure you.
Traci,
I totally agree with Mark--You HAVE to get H into sessions with the Harleys. They will be the voice of reason. I don't care if you have to borrow the $$ from your BIL--get the money, and tell H that it is a CONDITION required for his return home. Tell him he won't be signing on to anything and there are no strings attached. ONE SESSION.
It will make a world of difference, I assure you.
ITA that , do it, and let WH see you do it. He will see that you too can submit. Not that you are proud Traci, I think you have a right to be. I think that WH feels so insignificant and like such a fool that he will benifet from seeing his Awesome wife ,(you), also submit to an outside authority.
Does that make sense?
Haven't been here for several days because of trying to spend time with H and working the past 4 days. H getting off work early today and we will spend the rest of it together without the girls.
I plan on telling H that I am tired of walking on eaggs around him. I feel like if I say or do anything he isn't comfortable with or doesn't like he will leave and I can't do that any more. If he doesn't like it tough. I am not going to say anything mean or hateful but I will say,"I love you". He doesn't want me to say that to him yet because he feels like a hypocrite. Actually I think it makes him feel guilty. I know that as time goes on that he is going to realize everything that I have been saying has been the truth, but he has to figure that on his own.
H is feeling better about us and the future and he even mentioned that yesterday. He said that he has been thinking and planning our future together. I am starting to feel a little better but am still wary. H is even leaving his phone laying around all the time to the point if I go to bed early he plugs his phone in in the bedroom with me there and leaves. He also has been leaving his computer open with his aol account up. I have checked occasionally even when he is asleep and there is nothing there. He tells me where he is at at all times and who he is with. He also keeps in contact with me frequently.
Still hoping and praying.
I still think Therapy with Doc H will help you guys. You two sound like a great couple and I want to see you thrive. We all need examples like that out here
Happy Valentine's Day to everyone out there. Made H a homemade Valentine this year and didn't buy him anything. I don't expect to get anything from him either. Everything is still new and raw.
Had talk with H the other day there and got everything off of my chest and he was ok with it. I feel a whole better since telling him how I feel. H said that where at one time he was going to leave in a couple of months if he couldn't move on now he says he isn't going to leave. He finally found "closure" in himself. At least that is something.
Still hoping and praying.
HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY to you too. HAPPY CHINESE NEW YEAR too.
I am glad that you feel better. Thinking of you.
H found out today that OW lost her job at where he use to work at. She got fired for calling in twice last week. Found out that she has been out late a lot partying. She found another job but is trying to get her old job back. H hopes she doesn't get it back and I think he is glad she lost her job. He said she is a hypocrite. He found out she wasn't doing her job very well any more. I think they were just looking for a reason to fire her because of what had happened. I am so glad. Looks like the fog is lifting just a little bit.
Still hoping and praying.
Doing fine today. Put on call at the hospital. First time in 2 months. If I don't go in today I will have 5 days off in a row.
DD 19 starts her new job at my hospital on Monday. She is so excited. She is going to go into the medical field and the hospital will help her with her schooling. If she stays there she can retire by the time she is 49yrs old.
H and I have been talking a lot and mostly it has been me talking this time. He talks to but this time it mostly about me and what I wan and what I feel. I have decided to back off a little bit on the amount of affection I show H to see what he would do and now he is coming to me to get affection. Not a lot but he comes to me to hug me and get me to give him a kiss. I figured if I backed off a little maybe he would miss it and come to me and he did. I guess he missed it.
Still hoping and praying.
Are you guys getting your 15 hours in?
Believe me, it helps TONS!
Would really help if one of those hours were with the Harleys.
We get at least 20 hours a week together. We will be spending 4 days together starting tomorrow. Well, 2 days solid and at least 8 hours a day for 2 days. H will probably drive me nuts by Sunday. Going to go work out together all 4 days and go out to eat Saturday and Sunday. Plan on cutting down a tree in the back yard too(I have to make sure he doesn't get himself hurt or killed). We try to do things together. He even helps me around the house now, he doesn't do a whole lot but it makes a big difference in how the house looks and that is what counts to me.
I see H is trying and that gives me hope but I do know that we have a long way to go.
Still hoping and praying.
Went to see my counselor this morning and it was a good session. Says that I am doing everything right and that I have a good attitude but keeping an eye on everything which is good. Says that my H has a long way to go and that his actions need to follow his words. I totally agree. My counselor said that I look like I have lost about 20pounds.
H has been upbeat with me today. Constantly picking on me and flirting some too. Not mean picking just joking around with me.
Making lasagna tonight and having a salad and garlic bread with it. H loves my lasagna. Wonder what tonight will bring.
Still hoping and praying.
Traci I am going to ask you a point blank question. Forgive me if you allready answered it.
Do you like what the marriage builders plan that Dr. Harley uses and has set up to build marriages and make them stronger?
Sorry two questions.. Why haven't you used his services fo counselling?
If husband is not seeing the same counselor as you about your marriage then I worry about that but doesn't he need help also for depression? ..oops.. thats three.
You are a formidable woman with strong drives and convictions and I think you could handle just about anything Traci. I don't know how strong that comes across for your hubby and what in the world would make him feel he should leave. Is it possible that you have been so accustomed to taking care of him that you guys are heading back to a relationship that needs to be worked on at a practical level like MB and Doc H is capable of?
This is a marriage builders site not just a repair site. I look at it like most ppl treat cars. They go to the mechanic when its run down and all they are willing to do is get it running again. The mechanic tells them a list of stuff and all they will do is fix what they need to keep it going because they are still so focused on the "way it used to work" and they put off repair against the advice of the technician, who many times is telling the truth.
I don't nessesarily trust counselors to be able to wave a magic wand or read my mind and I see most of them as hand-holders. Thats good but I want someone who will teach ME to do the work as they discern the problem. I know you can find a way to pay for it. The questionaires and practices are nuts and bolts of any relationship that wants to stay healthy. You guys deserve to have an awesome marriage and I would be irresponsible as a freind here if I didn't ask these questions.
Are you just getting the marriage patched up or are you gonna go to the best mechanic we know here, Doc H?
If you allready are well share that with us or at least just tell us, (sorry I can't speak for everyone, just tell me), so I wont be worried that you are over amping yourself while Hubby stays confused untill you tell him the next thing to do.
God bless T
Right now I am trying my best to follow the teachings of Dr. Harley. Cannot get H to go to IC yet. He wanted me to make the appointment and I told him no, he had to do it. H is on antidepressants at the moment. I refuse to do things for him but try to fulfill his emotional needs. I have noticed lately that he is trying to fulfill mine.
Today H told me that this past week has been the best since he has been back and I have to agree with him. We have talked and spent a lot of time together doing things. It has been enjoyable. Yesterday I told him that I had made a lot of small changes to myself while he was gone and he said that he had noticed. I told him that the small things make the biggest difference and he agreed. I have noticed that he has changed too. He seems to much more relaxed and he communicates not only a lot more but better. H does other things as well.
H feels when we get to a certain point then we cango to counseling as a couple and see my therapist. Right now I just wish he would go to IC for himself but I can only encourage but he has to make that decision.
I wish I could afford to go to Dr. Harley's seminar but my finances are very tight at the moment. Luckily for me my insurance covers my therapy sessions and all I have to pay is $30 a visit. All I can do is follow Dr. Harley's advice in his books and get my H to read those books and pray a whole lot.
Still hoping and praying.
How often do you two have a hearty laugh together?
Pepper we laughed all weekend and it was fun. We not only laghed together but at each other. That is probably why this past week and weekend was so good. We laughed amongst other things. Things are progressing slowly but surely.
Still hoping and praying.
Mutual laughter, one of the biggest indicators of recovery, IMO.
I am pleased.
I wish I could afford to go to Dr. Harley's seminar but my finances are very tight at the moment. Luckily for me my insurance covers my therapy sessions and all I have to pay is $30 a visit. All I can do is follow Dr. Harley's advice in his books and get my H to read those books and pray a whole lot.
Still hoping and praying.
If you finances are tight now they will be destroyed if you get a D. Spend that money for the best investment that you can make ...in your M.
Blessing and prayers to you and your family.
Proverbs 17:22
A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones.
All I can think of is Rodger Rabbit, When The detective asks Jessica Rabbit what she sees in Rodger she says,"He makes me laugh"
Lol Then rodger was heartbroken when he found out his wife was spending time RK Maroon playing ,, "PATTYCAKE"!!
Its good to laugh at ourselves. Us humans do such dumb stuff.
Been working on my marriage for the past week and let my H have it last week. He got upset with me for it. I told him that there would be days when I would get upset and that he would have to understand this. Told him that I have been very understanding about him even when I didn't like what I heard and that he should show me the same consideration.
H is making an appointment to see a counselor finally and I am so glad. Told him he needed to at least see one for himself if nothing else. Haven't got him to agree to joint counseling yet.
I got a tattoo last week and I haven't let anyone in my family know about it. I kind of hinted around about having one to H that I had one when he came home and kept my back hidden from him too. Well I was washing the car this afternoon and my shirt came up while I was wahing the rims and I didn't cover it up fast enough. He saw it. He thinks I have had it since last year and I am not telling him any different. I got a "tramp stamp" that says "dochas" that is Scottish gaelic for "hope". My mother is from Scotland so I got something that meant something and all I have left right now is hope. The word is also in celtic script so it is different.
I have to admit trying to recover is very hard but hopefully in the end it will be worth it. Told H that I knew he still loved me even if he didn't realize it. Told him that I hope he wouldn't realize it too late though. I am tired and it has only been 2 months since he came back. I know that things will get better slowly but surely.
Still hoping and praying.
Doing fine but exhausted. Injured my back almost 2 weeks ago and I finally have the pain under control but have trouble staying asleep because I have to wake up to turn over. This is getting better.
Tommorow is my 45th birthday and H wants to know where to take me but I just don't care to go anywhere because it is just another day for me. It didn't use to be but the way things are right now it is just another day. We agreed weeks ago to not buy each other anything for all the special days of the year and concentrate on our bills. That makes sense to me and I have always told him over the years that I didn't need anything bought for me. I would rather have H do things for me than buy me anything. If he wants to buy me something I would rather he buy me something small during the year and surprise me with it than buy me something large and expensive for my birthday. Right now what I want for my birthday he isn't ready to give me--himself.
H has tried twice to make an appointment with a counselor and they have been closed. This is onew that my counselor recommended. He tried a week ago and got a recording that said they were open Mon-Thurs 10:00-4:00 and yesterday they said they would be back on Monday. I don't know how hw is going to get an appointment. He said he was going to call Monday morning.
Still hoping and praying
I suggest you go out with hubby on birthday because it is NOT just another day. I know thats how it feels and you are still hurting but I have experiaced this same feeling. I lived like it for years, allways the dilegent servant and living white knuckleing it as I tried to hold stuff together. Take a break for a day and believe anything is possible. You can relax one day right?
Whatever H gives you, action or thing, will be all he has so its special. It will take time before you guys straighten out the problems. Between you and him, money is a detail of life. You allready deal with this daily. Your birthday is a day to stand tall for what you are fighting for between yourselves, even if its bittersweet right now.
Thinking of you guys and praying also
You go out dagnabit and you have a good time.
Celebrate life and your entrance 45 years ago onto this planet and how life is so very precious and cool.
It IS!
Hope all is going well Traci
Been talking to H still. Let him know that I now look forward to going home everyday. He told he does too.
Had a good birthday on Saturday. We actually worked on the yard some more. All we have left to do is lay a pallet of sod and plant some shade plants. We had a sense of accomplishment that day. We went out for dinner and I was so glad he didn't have them sing happy birthday to me.
Went on line today and found out that OW's divorce was final 2 days ago. If H knows he hasn't said anything yet. Don't know if I should mention it.
I have to admit that things seem to be doing much better and H says things are getting better everyday. H says he enjoys being with me.
I just have to keep praying and giving time, time.
Still hoping and praying.
Went on line today and found out that OW's divorce was final 2 days ago. If H knows he hasn't said anything yet. Don't know if I should mention it.
Nope, why would you want remind him she exists?
NC for life, in thought and in person.
Thanks, I won't mention her divorce. I can about guarantee that he is going to hear about from somebody, though. I just wonder how long it will take and from whom and when will he tell me.
Still hoping and praying.
'IF' it is a guarantee, and you feel it would be better coming from you, then do it matter of fact, as though it as important as sharing the fact you have a really big zit somewhere undignified. Have a 'change the subject' or activity to do after notification to stop either of you dwelling on it.
Her D is not interesting or relevant to you and your M.
I guess that I am just worried that now she is divorced she might try to get back into our loves again. My marriage means too much to me for her to try to come between us again. Except this time I am ready and I will fight for my husband and my marriage and I can promise that this time I will pull out all the stops and fight dirty. She will not know what hit her this time because this time it will be me.
Still hoping and praying.
H and I talked extensively last night and found out that H has never really been happy his whole life. He was happy with me for a while and when we got married, when our daughter was born, when he came home from Korea and several other events in our lives. He was happy with OW and now realizes that he was only happy because it was new and exciting. He told me that he realizes that the affir would have ended for another reason even if he hadn't felt so guilty. He wants to give me so much more but wants to be happy and wants to know why isn't. He is going to see a counselor to figure this out. H was on adipex to lose weight and one of the things he noticed was it made him feel better about everything and enhanced his mood to the point he was happy. H thinks he has a chemical imbalance. H is no longer on adipex and is back on zoloft but it doesn't help his mood any.
Still hoping and praying
He is going to see a counselor to figure this out. H was on adipex to lose weight and one of the things he noticed was it made him feel better about everything and enhanced his mood to the point he was happy. H thinks he has a chemical imbalance. H is no longer on adipex and is back on zoloft but it doesn't help his mood any.
Still hoping and praying
Sounds like a bingo..
Maybe a good step would be for him to have a complete physical. Rule out any medical cause, and then have him go to a IC. He might benefit from AD.
H has an appointment to see an IC on Friday afternoon and he also does couples counseling as well. I think of this as a positive thing with us. H is hoping to get his medication changed as well when he sees this counselor.
Right now I would like my H to try SAMe. It is suppose help elevate ones mood and it is all natural. You can get it at vitamin stores and GNC.
I feel like things are starting to look up some. If H can get help for himself then we can start on us and that is what he wants too.
Still hoping and praying.
H is hoping to get his medication changed as well when he sees this counselor.
Right now I would like my H to try SAMe.
There are several "no -no's".
And, you can always ask your pharmacist (make sure he/she knows about every medication your H is taking ... even non prescription meds)
I have been doing a lot of research on SAMe and I am waiting to see what H will be taking before I get it for him. I will probably wait for a few weeks until the new medication takes affect and see how he does.
I feel like things are starting to look up some. If H can get help for himself then we can start on us and that is what he wants too.
Still hoping and praying.
We are hoping and praying for both of you also...
SAM-E is expensive depending on where you buy it. I bought some a couple weeks ago and have been taking it daily. It seemed to be more of a calming effect but of course your hubby will be different.
Good news for you guys coool,,,
Well, the past several days haven't been good for me. In fact yesterday was real bad. Had a talk with H off and on yesterday and last night I got up at 11 PM and talked about omething else and and he didn't want to talk because he had been drinking. I didn't care because I knew he would at least tell me. It ended with him saying that what if he couldn't be happy and I couldn't be happy and I told him that I wanted him to be happy and to be happy with himself and that if I had to let me go then I would even though I didn't want to. Several days ago he told me he basically hadn't been happy his whole life and that he had to find happinss inside of himself before he could work on us. He also tld me he didn't love either and that I deserved to find someone who did. Told him that I doubt that would happen because I loved him and didn't want anyone else and that I just wanted him to love me.
I guess I am an idiot and a fool to love someone who doesn't return it. I still feel that you don't return to someone you don't love especially when the guilt and stress eats you up. I guess H has to figure that out on his on.
Told H I guess I have to wait on him to decide to work on the marriage and he wanted to know how long I was willing to wait. Told I would wait as long as it took.
H finally had his first appointment with his counselor and started not to go because of the cost and I told I didn't care about the cost as long as he got help. I went to my counselor on Friday which was the same day he went.
Still hoping and praying.
Sorry tracy. I see that it has been almost 3 months you are trying to R.
You might have to let go. Please check out the teachings of Anthony de Mello on youtube about love, attachment etc...
He is helping me tremendously.
We only suffer till we decide we do not want to suffer anymore.
Blessing
I guess I am an idiot and a fool to love someone who doesn't return it. I still feel that you don't return to someone you don't love especially when the guilt and stress eats you up. I guess H has to figure that out on his on.
Told H I guess I have to wait on him to decide to work on the marriage and he wanted to know how long I was willing to wait. Told I would wait as long as it took.
H finally had his first appointment with his counselor and started not to go because of the cost and I told I didn't care about the cost as long as he got help. I went to my counselor on Friday which was the same day he went.
Traci, I haven�t followed your whole thread so maybe I missed something, but are y�all using Marriage Builders concepts to create romantic love? This program really does work if it is used. The vast majority of counselors, however, don�t have the slightest idea how to save a marriage and don�t even believe romantic love is possible. [they have an 84% failure rate]
If I were in your shoes, I would ditch the traditional counselors and get him on the phone with Steve Harley. He might be able to sell your husband when he explains logically how his program serves to create romantic love. Marriage Builders is completely different from traditional counseling in that they use a behavioral approach and their goal is dramatically different in that they seek to restore romantic love. Other counseling venues don�t believe that is possible.
Having a great, romantic marriage often alleviates depression, too. It is a quality of life issue that affects all other aspects of one�s life
I realize that my H has to be able to happy on his own. I cannot be responsible for his happiness. We are each responsible for our own happiness not someone else.
I am trying to get him to follow MB but I cannot even get him to particpate. I will try to get him to try again tonight.
Still hopin and praying.
I realize that my H has to be able to happy on his own. I cannot be responsible for his happiness. We are each responsible for our own happiness not someone else.
Traci, but isn't the goal to be happy in the marriage? Having a happy marriage most often leads to personal happiness. That is the goal of Marriage Builders. Going to an IC is usually a disaster for a marriage because they coach them to pursue individual feelings at the expense of the marriage. They work in conflict to marital recovery.
I am trying to get him to follow MB but I cannot even get him to particpate. I will try to get him to try again tonight.
Rather than try to get him on board yourself, I would suggest counseling with Steve Harley YOURSELF. Let him assess your situation and give you a PLAN. Then he can tell you what to say to get your H on the phone with him ALONE. Steve doesn�t counsel couples in conflict together because that is a stupid strategy.
Traci, I just read your entire thread and I'm happy to see that your H has returned home and you're working on recovery.
I have noticed that every time (and it has been a lot) someone mentions getting counseling with the Harley's you kind of blow it off...yet you and your H continue to struggle in your recovery!
I think you have done SOOOO many things right, but I pray you will take advantage of reaching out to the absolute best resource you have available to you right now...counseling with the Harley's.
You've come so far...I'd hate to see you lose everything now.
Cannot get H to go to IC yet. He wanted me to make the appointment and I told him no, he had to do it. I refuse to do things for him but try to fulfill his emotional needs.
I guess I don't quite get this. Your H is going through withdrawal and is asking you for your help. You have access to the BEST possible help available out there (counseling with the Harley's) yet you don't take it.
If your H was withdrawing from crack and asked you for help finding a good detox facility would you tell him to handle it himself, or would you hook him up with a facility that you KNEW had the highest success rates in the country for recovery?
Traci, Sidney is right. If your H is willing to work on the problems why wouldn't you help him? IC is a diversion from the real problem that wastes valuable time. You only have a short window of time before you have lost the opportunity to save your marriage completely.
Why not do something to help yourself and your marriage?
What everyone doesn't seem to understand is that H has never really been happy his whole life. He needs to be happy with himself to be happy with us. We are each responsible with our own happiness, we cannot depend on someone else to make us happy.
What is good is that his counselor is a good marriage counselor and he specializes in marriage counseling. I will call tomorrow to set up an appointment for us to talk to Steve, but I cannot promise that I can get H to talk to him. I just hope my flexible spending account covers this because I just don't have the money to spend onanything else. I have cut back on my hours at work because that was part of our problems, I worked too many hours. I worked a lot of overtime but that was because he spent too much and now he finally realizes this and he sold his truck before he returned home.
Still hoping and praying.
Traci- I think that there are two different issues at hand concerning your H. The first, and most dire, is the fact that he is going through withdrawal from OW and it is vital he gets through this to reconcile your marriage. I'm glad you're going to call Steve, because I think he is the absolute best person that can help your H with this particular issue right now.
The second issue (and important, but not as immediately pressing) is his chronic unhappiness. I believe a good therapist (and possibly meds) can help address this and I hope he can get to the bottom of some of his issues.
And as far as the marriage counselor, just a heads-up that they are not all trained with the best methods for recovering infidelity (thus the push for the Harley's). My WH is a Marriage and Family Therapist and I tried for years to get him to buy into the Marriage Builder's methods for his practice, but he just scoffed at it all (as he had client after client involved in affairs experience failed marriages). Oh yeah, and he just walked out on his own family to pursue his affair!
What everyone doesn't seem to understand is that H has never really been happy his whole life. He needs to be happy with himself to be happy with us. We are each responsible with our own happiness, we cannot depend on someone else to make us happy.
And where did you get this idea, Traci? Having a good marriage leads TO great personal happiness.
Secondly, when you say his counselor "specializes" in marriage counseling, what is his track record? Most MC have a long history of failure. What is his? Does he use a behavioral approach or does he use the tried and failed feeling approach where people come to counseling for YEARS examining their PAST?
Traci, I am glad you are going to call Steve. He can give you a PLAN to save your marriage, and he won't waste your time with a bunch of nonsense.
Hi Traci,checking in.... Agree with the others and get an appt. with Steve.
I know money is tight. I used to complain about finances and I did not know how good I had it till I went through the D.
The money for the MC is an investment. Rather not have money for the electric but for the C if it works out in the long run.
Blessings.
It looks like I will be talking to Steve by myself because H isn't ready to work on marriage until he has fixed himself. He isn't sure if our marriage is going to work out. I asked him then why did you come back and he said he wanted our marriage to work and now he isn't sure it is.
I am a very happy and optimistic person and I don't think I should be responsible for another person's happiness. I shouldn't make them unhappy. If a person can never be happy on their own no one should be responsible to make that person happy because eventually it won't work. We are responsible for our spouses happiness but if they are already unhappy and have been their whole life then they need to get IC to see what they can do to help themselves. My counselor is behind Dr. Harley's principles and said we should use them but she says that H needs to fix himself before we can fix our marriage. H counselor told him that he wanted him to try techniques/exercises to help him with his unhappiness when he saw him again this week. He also suggested that H increase his medication because he was getting enough and that he needed to go back to the gym. I do know that this counselor has weekly seminars for couples and is successful. Asked H to find out if this counselor uses Dr. Harley's principles. Don't know if he will because he wants to fix himself first.
Still hoping and praying.
It looks like I will be talking to Steve by myself because H isn't ready to work on marriage until he has fixed himself.
This is an excuse to avoid working on the marriage. It is a diversion and a distraction from the real problem. I am sure he is getting these lines from his counselor. Hopefully, Steve can get him on the phone and overcome this obstacle. Because thats all it is, a self contructed obstacle.
Steve doesn't counsel couples in conflict together anyway [it is a disaster] so it doesn't matter for now if he won't agree to speak to Steve.
He isn't sure if our marriage is going to work out
If he refuses to do anything about the problem, it won�t work out. That is a self fulfilling prophecy. If you don�t lift a finger to fix the problem it won�t get fixed.
H and I talked extensively last night and found out that H has never really been happy his whole life. He was happy with me for a while and when we got married, when our daughter was born, when he came home from Korea and several other events in our lives. He was happy with OW and now realizes that he was only happy because it was new and exciting. He told me that he realizes that the affir would have ended for another reason even if he hadn't felt so guilty. He wants to give me so much more but wants to be happy and wants to know why isn't.
Traci, just so you know, depression is common for adulterers. When a person violates their conscience in such an egregious manner, it can�t help but have an effect on ones mental health. Depression is the rule rather than the exception. It is also common for them to rewrite history and paint their past as �unhappy.� [they are comparing their affair feelings to the past]
Regardless of the truth, the solution is to focus on the present and not on the past. As he distances himself from his affair his depression will dissipate. I agree it is a good idea for him to take an anti-depressant because that will ease his withdrawal.
Creating a happy, romantic marriage will resolve his depression because it will fill the gap left by his fantasy affair. The more time goes on, the less chance you have to do this. It is alarming to me that there is no plan in place to fix your marriage because not doing so leaves your H wide open for a resumption of the affair, or the start of another. The longer this goes on untended the less chance you have of recovery.
The notion that he needs to �fix himself first� before fixing the marriage is to put the cart before the horse and will not result in happiness. He needs to fill the GAP left by his affair and that has to be done with a good marriage. That is not being done. Having an unhappy marriage will keep him depressed and will do nothing to fill the gap left by the affair, whereas a happy marriage facilitates one�s PERSONAL happiness. The 2 goals are NOT mutually exclusive and using one as an excuse to avoid the other will not result in personal happiness or a happy marriage. A happy marriage affects all aspects of one�s life in a very impactful way.
Working on the marriage with
qualified coaches is what will make the difference. If this was my marriage, I would not risk my marriage on an unproven source.
"Some counselors think it's a good idea to "resolve issues of the past" by talking about them week after week, month after month, year after year. It keeps these counselors in business, but does nothing to resolve the issue. In fact, it usually makes their poor clients chronically depressed.
My experience as a Clinical Psychologist has proven to me that dredging up unpleasant experiences of the past merely brings the unhappiness of the past into the present. The problems of the present are difficult enough to solve without spending time and energy trying to resolve issues of the past, which are essentially unresolvable. You can make your future happy, but you can't do a thing about bad experiences of the past, except think and talk about them -- and that makes the bad experiences of the past, bad experiences of the present." Dr. Willard Harley
"An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them."
"One of the reasons I'm not so keen on dredging up the past as a part of therapy is that it brings up memories that carry resentment along with them. If I'm not careful, a single counseling session can open up such a can of worms that the presenting problem gets lost in a flood of new and painful memories. If the goal of therapy is to "resolve" every past issue, that seems to me to be a good way to keep people coming for therapy for the rest of their lives. That's because it's an insurmountable goal. We simply cannot resolve everything that's ever bothered us.
Instead, I tend to focus my attention on the present and the future, because they are what we can all do something about. The past is over and done with. Why waste our effort on the past when the future is upon us. Granted, it's useful to learn lessons from the past, but if we dwell on the past, we take our eyes off the future which can lead to disaster.
I personally believe that therapy should focus most attention, not on the past, but on ways to make the future sensational."
Dr. Harley states that once a WS has finished with the withdrawal and their depression has lifted then one can work on the marriage and follow his concepts and have a great marriage and it could take 6-24 months for this to work. But first my H has to get over his withdrawal and depression. We are already spending a lot of time together, talking a lot and being open and honest. I am trying to meet his emotional needs as he lets me.
Just put in a request for an appointment with Steve and hope to hear from him soon as to when we can talk. I just need some advice from him as to what to do with my H and our marriage.
I finally have decided to take care of myself and be happy and show my H that I can be happy no matter what. I am going to do what I want and that is to fulfill his EN and I am not going to let him keep me at arms length. I am going to fill his Love Bank up before he even realizes it.
Still hoping and praying.
Dr. Harley states that once a WS has finished with the withdrawal and their depression has lifted then one can work on the marriage and follow his concepts and have a great marriage and it could take 6-24 months for this to work. But first my H has to get over his withdrawal and depression. We are already spending a lot of time together, talking a lot and being open and honest. I am trying to meet his emotional needs as he lets me.
Traci, Dr Harley does not make couples WAIT to work on recovery. He throws them right into it immediately. IMMEDIATELY. In fact, Steve will not even allow his clients to come out of Plan B unless the WS has committed to a recovery PLAN that begins immediately. Your H should not wait, he has a very small window of opportunity to be working on the recovery of your marriage. If he doesn't then that opportunity is lost. I don't even get the sense that your H believes there is HOPE in your marriage, which makes things worse. The more hopeless he is, the less chance that he ever will work on the marriage. Giving him HOPE and having a PLAN for rebuilding romantic love will greatly alleviate his depression. But he has no feasible plan here.
Creating a great, romantic marriage is one of the very things that will RESOLVE his depression. He does not need to go to IC FIRST, he needs to be focused on marital recovery NOW before it is too late.
Just put in a request for an appointment with Steve and hope to hear from him soon as to when we can talk. I just need some advice from him as to what to do with my H and our marriage.
I am relieved you are finally getting the help you need for your marriage.
I finally have decided to take care of myself and be happy and show my H that I can be happy no matter what.
Well, I would say that taking care of your marriage by creating a romantic relationship will make you BOTH happy.
Talked to Steve on Friday and got good advice. Steve wants to talk to my H now but he is refusing to talk to him. Says that he just wants to get more money out of us and I told him that the reason it costs that much is because the have a great success rate and that it is worth it if it works. He finally agreed to talk to Steve if we hadn't made any progress by the end of April. I am trying to get him to work with me with what I have learned from Steve. He does agree with what little I told him that I learned from Steve. Steve did tell me not to tell him everything we discussed. I do feel a little bit more optimistic since Friday.
Can't wait until this Saturday. I am hopin that Nissan gets the switch in to fix the top on my 350Z so H and I can go cruising down the beach. It is suppose to almost 80 degrees here in Panama City. It should be fun. Also plan on going to what we call Friday Fest downtown. It is the first Friday of every month. They have booths set up and live music everywhere. We need to get out and have fun.
Still hoping and praying.
Sometimes I just want to hit my H with a 2x4. He is still saying he doesn't love me and that we have nothing in common. Told him that I am tired of hearing that because he has a defeatest attitude. He isn't even working on the marriage yet. He isn't doing anything. He still keeps telling me how much of a good person I am and that we are friends and that he thinks if things don't work out we could become such "great" friends! Bull c***! Told him again all or nothing. Told him that I cannot be friends with someone that I want to be more than friends with. He doesn't understand. He thinks that we can be friends because of the girls and when I find someone else and am happy. Told him no. I don't plan on getting with anyone else for several reasons. I love him, the only thing out there around my age have already been married and divorced at least once and probably fooled around on their wives, and last is that I don't want to go through this crap again whether it is a husband fooling around on me or doesn't want to be married any more.
Told H that I had faith in God and that I don't doubt that He will fulfill my prayers and that is the difference in us. I have faith and he doesn't. H has never read the Bible and he has one! So far God has fulfilled my prayers. I believe what Mark 11:22-24 says. It has been my mantra ever since God showed it to me.
Hope everyone has a wonderful and beautiful Easter.
Still hoping and praying.
Sometimes I wonder when H will come out of this fog he is in. When he came home over 3 months ago he said he had to get past her and his feelings for her. He says has now and can never see himself back in that situation and doesn't want to go back to that. Now his excuse for not working on our marriage is that he has to find happiness within himself. I think it is just an excuse. I don't know what to do any more. He says that I am a good person and that I am doing everything right. He also tells me he doesn't love anymore. Told him that he needs to work on the marriage. Even talked to Steve Harley. Unfortunately H won't talk to him. Finally told H that I would continue doing what I have been doing and that I wasn't going to push him any more. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I've done everything that I can do. The real problem is, is that I think he really does love me. I just hope he doesn't realize it too late.
Tracy,
I am really sorry about all you are going thru. It is hard.
Reading the bible or other spiritual writings shows the willingness to enlighten oneself and follow a path of integrity. You H is not at that level. He is all wrapped into himself.
I also used Steve Harley and in those days he used to tell me that H was intoxicated with himself. You H might very well still have feelings for OW or fantasize about her.
Whatever he is doing he is putting energy elsewhere and not in the M. He is convinced he can't be happy with you and the M. He slapped the label: impossible on the M and the label "I can only be friends with W because I can never love her again."
If he is puttin up a wall there is very little you can do to change him. As you said, you can't make him drink.
I feel for you as I went thru the same drama after his first A and now of course.
Really, check out Anthony de Mello on youtube. It helped me!
blessing
Everything seems to better. Had a long talk with H last week and said everything I felt and it came out right and strong. I didn't even start to cry this time. H and I finally came to a decision that we were putting too much pressure on ourselves. We are now just going to relax and have fun together and see where things go. Since we have come to this decision we have been enjoying each other more.
I have only been working no more than 2 days in a row at the hospital this past 2 weeks and it makes a big difference. I feel better and I am more relaxed. I still work about 7-8 days every 2 weeks and those are 12hr shifts. I make out my own schedule and I work the same days every week.
Going to have H teach me how to play pool this weekend. I can play a little bit but I really suck at it. This should be very interesting and funny if nothing else.
Still hoping and praying.
Have been gone from here for several weeks. Been trying to work on marriage. It's a bust.
Husband started going out with his buddies every Saturday night and staying out late. He kept in contact with me most of the night. Finally had it out with him last week about this because of several things. Told him I was through and eventhough I loved him and wanted him to stay I needed him to leave. He didn't leave and he even was constantly texting me all day. Yesterday I told he had to leave because I was tired and couldn't do this anymore. I was the only one working on the marriage and that I needed him to work on it too and he wouldn't. I also wasn't getting any of my emotional needs met. He told me he wasn't ready to work on the marriage yet. I got the same old thing again, that he didn't love me any more and didn't know if he ever would. Told him he had to leave because I was tired of being hurt by him. He said he was sorry and that he would look for a place. Funny thing is is that he still wants to date me and see if we can rekindle anything since the pressure will be off once he moves out. I don't know about that because even though I love him, I hate him too because of everything he has put me through.
Looks like I finally found my backbone. Actually I never lost it, it was here the whole time, I just had to stand up straight. I still want my marriage to work. Maybe if he moves out into a place of his own my H will finally realize his mistake. Part of me just doesn't care any more. I told him that he could now party to his heart's content and be single. I know he will finally realize how empty an existence that is and how much money he doesn't have. I still can't believe he wants us to go out on dates. One thing he will realize is is that he has no one to really talk to about how he feels about everything.
Well, no going back. I will have to see this through.
I wish I was on my computer.
Forgive short response, please.
Tell H
"this is not good enough"
once he's out, plan B dark as midnight in the Forrest.
Date your H ???? As if "spit".
I'm so sorry, Traci. Pep is right though. You need to go into a very dark Plan B. You are strong. You can do this.
God's Blessings,
Say
Sorry Traci, everyone is right on, NO dating him....Dark plan B. Save your sanity.
Well, I am just going to add to the voices. NO DATING. PLAN B. That's all I was thinking while reading your post.
Part of me just doesn't care any more. I told him that he could now party to his heart's content and be single. I know he will finally realize how empty an existence that is and how much money he doesn't have. I still can't believe he wants us to go out on dates. One thing he will realize is is that he has no one to really talk to about how he feels about everything.
Well, no going back. I will have to see this through.
He wants to be single and date you so you can provide the $$$ for him to lead a single life.
Dark Plan B...and work on yourself.
Blessing
I can't remember, Traci, if you and H ever did any phone sessions with the Harleys?
The only way he will see what he is missing and giving up is if your are gone and out of his life, you need all of a relationship and a love from a husband, not just scraps he feels like throwing you.....
Stand up for yourself, be happy with just yourself, you deserve more than he is giving you.....
Make him stand up to the plate or lose you and all you have to offer him....
Plan b like the others suggest......they are good at the plan building, they know what works.....listen.......
good luck
I already told him all or nothing. No dating. Evenif we did date he would have to pay, but I am not going to date him. He thinks once he is out that all the pressure would be off and that he could relax and see if there was anything there. Not going to happen.
I talked to Steve one time last month and H promised me if things were not beter by the end of April he would talk to Steve. He never did.
I feel like I have lost my best friend. We had gotten so close these past 5 months but I can't do this any longer.
Still hoping and praying.
Dochas-Gaelic for hope-I carry it with where ever I go, it is tattooed on my lower back.
So sorry Traci,
I guess I'd tell H that the ONLY way I'd consider a relationship with him is if he completes 3 sessions with Steve. By then, his head will either be screwed on, or the threads are permanently stripped.
Stay strong, my friend.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/This is a link to a very good page about detachment. You do not need to be in plan B to use it, but it may help.
Detachment is still loving, but not enabling destructive behaviors- and not indirectly adding to them.
To get your H and your dynamic to change, something drastic has to happen. This is the first step.
Focus on you, you can not make an abusive person the center of your life.
detach.
Lately I have been doing my own thing and my H has come around. I guess he figured that I was finally going to stand on my own 2 feet without him. He is now going to read the books I have and that I have been trying to get him to read. Things have actually improved over the past 1 1/2 weeks. We are getting along better and have been enjoying ourselves. I am learning to play pool and doing very well to the point that my H is impressed. Lately, this has been the best it has been since his return.
Still hoping and praying.
Hey Traci,
Glad to hear things are moving in the right direction. If he reads the books, hopefully he will be open to discussing the concepts and after that, actually put them into practice.
TBC
This I hope is the beginning of something new and positive for you. Welcome to yo-yo land.
You retreat, he comes forward, you advance, he backs up.
Glad to hear about this upswing. You have been so sad lately.
I call it the terrible two-step.
I wish I had some good news but I don't. H is going to move out as soon as he and his friend/partner can get a place together. I have finally had it with him. He still doesn't know what he wants and now he goes out every weekend with his friends and sometimes after work with them. I told him he needed to work on our marriage but guess he would rather be single. My therapist thinks maybe if he had to struggle with his friend( his friend is living with his Mom right now) then he would get a big dose of reality. I don't know and really don't care.
I still love him and have been Plan A him since he has been back. Things are better but not where they should be. I feel that when he leaves that he will never come back and I told my H this. He said it wasn't going to be like that. I also told him that I believe that he will get back with OW and he told me no because he recently realized that things were going downhill between them before they broke it off.
I don't know what to do, but I do know one thing and that is I will probably go back in Plan B again. I have been preparing myself mentally to be single again. Hopefully I will be able to handle this.
I just wanted to give everyone an update.
I am still hoping and praying.
Glad you checked in Traci. Still seems like you have been the mature one here. Maybe like you said, he will have to go out and be a big boy on his own to realize what you have done for him.
I know its hard, but your doin your best, keep checkin in as you head into dark plan B. There is so much support here.
For what its worth, the reason he said he would not go back to OW should not qualify to you that he loves you, or is seriuos about the marriage, it just sounds so wimpy.
He will go whereever things are easy for him. Its never too late for someone to grow up but DAY-UMM. it must hurt to be treated this way.
He actually told me he loved me 2 weeks ago but said that because he said it when was drinking that it didn't count. He also said he doesn't remember saying it. I never asked him if he did he just came out and said it. My therapist agrees with me that you say things when you are drunk that you wouldn't normally say when you are sober. But it doesn't matter anymore anyway if he loves me or not.
Did tell H yesterday that I can honestly say I tried and that he couldn't say that. My therapist said that I did at least 90% of the work on trying to save our marriage. I'm not saying my marriage is over but it might as well be. It is now up to God. I've done everything that I could do.
Tracie, good to see you checking in even though it is not going well. Step back and breathe.
Your right trust in God and let Him do his work. We can only do so much.
Blessings
Traci,
Stay strong. There are plenty of us on the board that feel we tried everything. We can live with ourselves knowing this.
Unfortunately, if the wayward isn't ready, no plan -- even if flawlessly executed -- will work.
And it seems so easy -- the wayward just needs to STOP, turn around, and become a spouse again. IT'S THAT EASY.
When he's ready, you will know. It will be easy then... because he will be doing the real work because HE wants to... not because YOU want him to.
Thanks everyone. Asked H today if he wanted a divorce and he told me no. Told him that i don't know how he was going to move out if he doesn't have any money. He told me that he and his friend were just talking about it but it wasn't definite. He told me it wasn't fair for me to be going through this. He is right about that.
Still hoping and praying.
Traci, I am so sorry that things aren't going well. I see in your siggy that it says that you asked your WH to leave on May 11th. Why didn't that happen? Are you going to go to Plan B again? If so, when? I hope that you aren't just waiting for him to move out.
Hun, you must be really tired emotionally if you have been doing Plan A for 6 months. Why have you been doing Plan A?
I know I have not done a recovery stage myself but I have read the material and I have seen others post to recovering posters. I know that it is advised to do a sort of PLan A but you can't do that forever. There also has to come a time when your WH has to start working at recovery. I seem to remember that your WH kept telling you that he just didn't think that this was going to work. If he meant he wasn't willing to DO any work, then he was right.
I am really sorry Traci. I was really pulling for you and I still am.
It is strange, some days I want to give up and others I have so much hope. Today I was really surprised when H said he didn't want a divorce. I have told him I would give him a divorce and that if he wanted to leave I wouldn't try to stop him. I even told him he didn't have to stay if he wanted the OW. Been told multiple times by him that he he doesn't want her and doesn't want anything to do with her. I have told him to lease leave me if he wants anything at all to do with her. So I have given ways out of our marriage and he won't take them. He knows that I love him and that I want to make our marriage a success. He says he doesn't know what is wrong with him. I have seen over the past 6 months that he is slowly but surely coming out of the fog but he doesn't want to work on the marriage.
I have taken every weapon he could use against me including the house. Told him if he wanted to sell the house to go for it. I wouldn't fight it. I told him that if he could sell the house it would just make it easier for me to leave the area. I would leave Florida and move to Tennessee to be near my parents. He would then have to be responsible for our DD 22 and DD 19. They still live at home.
Still hoping and Praying.
Traci, time to go into a dark Plan B. In your case it might pull your H out of the fog.
Stop asking what HE wants. What do YOU want. He is still in the fog babble that is what is wrong with him. Sometimes Plan B could be that smack in the head that will make him "snap out of it".
He is cake eating and dessert is over.
Blessing and prayers to you and your family.
We talked about this a long time ago Traci. Everyone stressed that he HAD to do the heavy lifting and activly demonstrate his willingness to work on the marriage if you took him back.
You have given him enough time to do that, so if you really want personal recovery, with the "Chance" of restoring and strengthening your marriage. You should do plan B very darkly and wait till he grows up. I assure you as long as you are willing to be his caretaker he will let you do it. Hes just so comfortable there. The cake eater.
Ok so here is your challange for yourself. Can you stop being his caretaker and have a different role in your marriage if and when he does get ahold of his problems? Or are you just interested in restoring the marriage back to when you have to lead him to water? If I remember right, you held his hand and brought him to the gym, whached over him with care in just about everything, and he just got depressed and wandered to a younger women who he felt supperior to.
There is no shame in growing and maturing and taking control of your life. You are doing that. Its his choice to stay in limbo and run away from the challenge that God has given him with a women of your character. You must let him make that choice and suffer the consequences. Maybe he will have an epiphimy, maybe he won't, but he needs to see what he's got, and missing when your gone out of his site, and his life.
Maybe he will and maybe he won't but let him come after you. You deserve it. Your challange is to let him have control over that choice. While accepting a new life with him as he SHOWS you he wants you above all others, is able to live by himself, is totally whole and capable, and chooses to be with you. He even might bring back some self respect. It will be an awesome marriage or you will know why. Don't expect any less. God knows you don't make excuses for yourself. Can you stop doing it for him? Thats the challenge for you as I see it.
Of course this will take time and patience, forgiveness and love, understanding and faith. Use those things with a righteous expectation of results in proper time, with sound counsel, for yourself first, and then your marriage.
Time to let him live on his own. If you don't force him to leave he will be "talking" with his friend about moving out for the next year. he is stringing you along. Why would he WANT to move out, you are OK with letting him live there AND having his single life. Meanwhile your love is draining every day.
Please don't wait until it's too late. Ask him to leave this weekend. And DON'T allow him to come back until he is TOTALLY committed to saving this M, which includes phone counseling with Steve, 15 hours AT LEAST of UA with you, and no more going out without you.
You have just put up with too much for too long. If you are going to continue with this much longer you may as well just start the D now because you won't have any love left for you H soon.
My suspicion is he doesn't have one OW, he has multiple ones...
Yes Tracy, you are like me, a caretaker and our H just have it all easy and we also allow them to lead a single's life while still living at home. My H was the same. He took full advantage and I set the bar so low he walked all over me and did despicable things.
They have to want to be with us. We can't make it so easy and comfortable for them and let them know that no matter what they chose all is fine for us because we do not count, they do.
No, no. You see, then they feel babied and they look for a woman that looks up to them and leave them in charge. They want to feel like men not like little kids.
You need to go into plan B and see if he comes to his senses, ifhe wants you, if he puts efforts in winning you back.
blessing
Of course he doesn't want a divorce, because you are meeting some of those needs for him while the OW meeting the rest of them, the only way to fix your situation is to go into a REALLY DARK PLAN B, people on here has said so plenty of times, don't wait till he moves out, plan B is not suppose to be in his "convenient" only YOURS! If he doesn't have a place to stay..so what? Is that your problem!? NO!
Stop taking care of him, and start your plan B like YESTERDAY!
Yes Tracy, you are like me, a caretaker and our H just have it all easy and we also allow them to lead a single's life while still living at home. My H was the same. He took full advantage and I set the bar so low he walked all over me and did despicable things.
They have to want to be with us. We can't make it so easy and comfortable for them and let them know that no matter what they chose all is fine for us because we do not count, they do.
No, no. You see, then they feel babied and they look for a woman that looks up to them and leave them in charge. They want to feel like men not like little kids.
You need to go into plan B and see if he comes to his senses, ifhe wants you, if he puts efforts in winning you back.
blessing
Bears repeating.
ITA with Still and Saphire too.
We will be here Traci, so glad you posted agin.
I've noticed from your posts it seems like there's been an uptick in his drinking and partying. It sounds like he has replaced one of the "deadly three A's (affair, abuse, addiction)" with another.
His affair may be dead, but his addiction is alive and well. Of course he doesn't want a divorce. He's a high-functioning alcoholic at this point. He doesn't even remember what he says when he's drinking and he goes out most nights. This is not a marriage--you are enabling.
Plan B is not enough--he needs AA and you need Al-Anon, my friend.
H just mentioned laswt night that he has been drinking too much and hasn't had anything since Saturday night.
I have learned that you can have an affair and not necessarily with the OW. If you have to be with your friends all the time then that in itself becomes an affair because you ignore your marriage and that threatens your marriage.
I am going to have to give my H a choice either he works on the marriage because he doesn't want a divorce or I will file for a divorce. I need to protect myself.
Still hoping and praying.
So Traci,
You are not into a plan B type approach? Or are you just having a moment/day where you want it changed and right now?
Of course it is up to you to do what is best and you have to make the final judgement here.
Why don't you think that a Dark Plan B were he will have to do without you would not work towards restoration? Like I said we are here to understand and support you during that time. Most of all Dr H or his staff could help you both the most.
You work so hard and sacrificed so much already. Why not spend some $ with Dr H and go the distance. He wont let you be hurt and you can trust he will tailor recovery to the one willing to work at it.
We all need help sometimes. At least then you can say you went to the most successful MC in the country and your conscience is clear that you bent over backwards for the marriage, and know for sure inside that you deserve to recover.
Maybe you enabled him in some ways, shame on him for taking advantage of you, and you should be angry.
But what will really count is if you are able to show him that you are standing up for yourself but willing to recover if he snaps out of it. COMPLETLY. It could be his last chance as you go to plan B and recover yourself first.
I am afraid if you go to plan D that it will be so dramatic for you that it will hinder your personal recovery. You do seem the one more capable of sacrifice for the greater good and more likely to hurt over this.
As he doesn't want to take accountability for anything I believe he will do whatever it takes to get along. He wont really do any work to recover unless he comes to full accountability with someone making him, and no offense but you are just to nice for your own good. You need to put Dr H in charge of making him tow the line. This hurts you to much to make the right decisions.
If you let your emotions dictate what you do you and I know how scary that is. There are two things that could happen.
1. You could kick him out, get a restraining order, a divorce and tell yourself your all done with him.. That would make you feel better for the moment but you might cave when your desire to forgive and his pleading draws you back on the rollercoaster ride. You could stand by your convictions and force yourself reguardless to be done with him, but you will still go through grief either way. You are a caring person.
2. You can try to handle this all by yourself and accept less than what you deserve, and not make him do the work he needs to. Even if it means false recovery and coming back half-azz. Which will probably lead you back to where you are.
You need someone who will make him accountable and keep him on track, and will protect you from any bull he might sling. You need help from Dr H. because he does this for a living and has objectivity and is better at it than you are. I bet he would seek counsel if something happened to his health. Please consider this option so you will know for sure you gave it all and it was not just your version of "it all". Dr. H wont leave you hanging or advise you to put up with his behavior. He also has great insight and can help you recover no matter what happens with WH.
I don't believe he can't change, he won't as long as he is comfortable. Let the pain of separation from you in a Dark Plan B test whether he will get his poop together or not and do the work to win you back.
Im sorry you have to deal with his childness. It should be encouraging to know that you also have the power to bring in the proper authorities to set him straight, along with the consequences if he refuses, and its his loss Traci.
"Haste makes waste" my grandfather said. Its the emotional desparation that pushes us to make poor decsisions. I know you have given him time to get with the program and hes dropped the ball. I just think that you need the coach to step in here, Dr. H, and you need to both go to separate locker rooms so you BOTH can get some teaching in from him.
Wow what a corny metaphor, sorry about that.
Well that my advice, only you can decide.
God bless
How do you Plan B someone who won't move out?
I told him that if he didn't think it was fair to me about how things were then he should leave and he said he couldn't afford to move out. What am I to do? He doesn't want a divorce and he won't work on the marriage. He says he doesn't know what he wants. I told him that if he doesn't want a divorce then he should work on the marriage. He says he needs to move out and think about things. I told him that as soon as I got the money then I was going to file for divorce.
Can you get your WH to talk to the Harleys?
When he goes out change the locks?
I agree with scotty though, if he will talk to the harleys then its posible steve will tell him he should move out. Also Dr. H probably has 100 creative ways to get him on track or to move out.
I think I can get my H to talk to Steve. He did promise me thatif things didn't improve that he would talk to him. I would like him to talk to Steve at least once if not more.
Had talk with H this morning again. Told him that he knew that I really didn't want him to leave and that I didn't want a divorce but that I couldn't live like this any more. He thinks if he could move out that he could figure out what he wanted. told him that I couldn't have anything to do with him and he feels like that would hurt us not help us. I told him that I cannot be friends with some I love and want more than a friend because that wouldn't be fair to me and would hurt me. Toldn him that he was cake eating.
still hoping and praying.
...
Had talk with H this morning again. Told him that he knew that I really didn't want him to leave and that I didn't want a divorce but that I couldn't live like this any more. He thinks if he could move out that he could figure out what he wanted. told him that I couldn't have anything to do with him and he feels like that would hurt us not help us. I told him that I cannot be friends with some I love and want more than a friend because that wouldn't be fair to me and would hurt me. Toldn him that he was cake eating.
still hoping and praying.
Yes this is where many couples find themselves and Dr, H works to help them with great succsess. . You are right he is cake eating.He can't do things that destroy the marriage and hurt you and still expect your participation and happiness. while he does it.
Tracy, just be careful he is serious about talking with Steve and that he is not just going thru the motions. My WH used the session with Steve to do the exact contrary of what Steve was suggesting so instead of meeting my EN and allowing me to meet his he made sure to put up a wall and did not make any effort to meet my EN.
Sometimes when the WH is really convinced he wants out he can use advice to the detriment of the M by doing the exact contrary.
It is like teaching calorie counting to an anorexic person she will use it to eat even less especially if she has no intention to recover.
Steve is good but he can't convince someone who is totally gone. see how it goes with one session but make sure you observe your H's reactions closely.
Blessing
Boy, I think my H is really confused. In the wee hours of the morning H held my hand and kissed it then 5 minutes later told me he loved me. He remembers telling me because 5 minutes after that he made love to me and blew my mind! H still talking about moving out though but not as much. I really don't think he knows what he wants. I am still on my toes though. He even told me he was going to have OW number blocked from his phone to make sure she can't call or text him. Seems she still wants him back. She is out of luck because I'll make sure that won't happen and H says he never wants to go back there. He knows it was wrong and he realizes he didn't like it. It has taken him 6 months to finally realize everything. Now, hopefully with Steve's help things will finally start going forward.
Still hoping and praying.
There has been contact then? If not, why would he need to block her number after 6 months and how would he know that she still wants to be around him? This could explain his behaviour.
yes, she has contacted him that is why he is blocking her from his phone. At least he is letting me know what is going on and what he is doing to fix it. I read all her texts. This is on his work cell and his only cell. He is getting her blocked from it and I am getiing his 60yr secretary for the whole office to let me know that it is done. She is actually on my side.
still hoping and praying.
Traci the best way to work on recovery is when the couple are both seriuos and talk to Dr H. It is best if you stay in the same house and of course, there is no contact with OW.
I am happy for you that you had such a great emotional conection with your H recently. This is a good start. Grats.
As a layperson and without all the details about your sitch, I will just ask you a few questions that I think are important for your reovery.
1 Have you and H drafted a NC letter and sent it to OW? Stating what the NC letters approved by Dr H outline in detail?
2 Are you both prepared to follow Dr H instructions to build your marriage in as much detail as he can convey?
The details DO matter and I don't want you to experience a false recovery. That can lead to confusion and disappointment which might lead you to believe you have "Done all you could".
I hope you both go all in.
God bless Traci. You both deserve a great marriage and its certainly possible.
Well, I made it through the 1st anniversary of D-Day without any mishaps. I was worried that I was going to go off between June 30th thru July 5th. It helped that H was with me most of the time. I did work on the 30th. I was suppose to work July 1st and 2nd but the census was low in CVICU and I was on overtime those days. I've been on vacation since then. H has been doing well and everything is going well too. I wish things were better than they are but they are better.
Still hoping and praying.
Hope things go well for the end of this month because that is when s--t hit the fan and H left me and moved in with OW. That was more pain than I had ever felt in my life and never want to go through that again. If it wasn't for my friends at work and the doctors there I would have had a breakdown. They put me on medication and kept an eye on me. I owe them a lot. I now just hope everything is still going well and improving by the 25th with me and my H.
Still hoping and praying.
What besides all that hoping and praying is your plan?
Methinks you may need a plan....
{{Traci}}
Well, don't stay away. Ask for help. Reach out for support. You know we are here for you and we are pulling for you.
Just a note to let everyone know that my marriage is over. H told last night that he had been home for 6 months and he doesn't feel like anything has changed. Told him maybe if he would have worked on the marriage it would have. Personally things were improving alot and this was a big surprise. Told him he must be in contact with OW and he denied it. H is now sleeping in DD 19's room because he can't afford to move out. If that is it he will be here forever. Told him that was it, not to talk to me anymore and to leave me alone. Told him that I had told him all or nothing a long time ago. Also told him that even though I love him that I hated him as well. Told him I hope he was happy that he succeeded in me hating me. H told me he never wanted to hurt and I told him that it seems to me that it is real easy for him to do just that. Thinking about just letting the house go into foreclosure and moving to Tennessee with my parents. I have enough money in sick days and my annuity to pay everything off including my daughters' vehicles and start over. Don't know what else to do. Told God that I give up and that everything is now in his hands. Funny thing is, is that my H told me that he didn't me to get my hopes up and I told him that he already did that and that God would get him and the OW for what they both did to me. Especially him. This really blind sided me. things were actually getting better.
I did the best I could and that is all anyone can do.
Traci
I did the best I could and that is all anyone can do.
Hold YOUR head high, you have given your all and have done nothing wrong.
So sorry, Traci!
I guess you could go back to a dark plan B, but you've got to get him out of the house. Either way, he's got to go--this cake-eating isn't going to help you at all! If you file for D, can you get him removed from the house?
I've already gone back to Plan B. I refuse to talk to him any more. I plan on filing for a divorce as soon as I can without him. Once I do he can't stop me and he will have to leave as soon as it is final. I just have to come up with the money.
I hear ya. Problem is, it's darn near impossible to plan B while living under the same roof. Just having a clean house and a stocked fridge is a big help for him to continue is cake-eating. I wish there was a way to get him out.
House will be clean but fridge won't be stocked.
Traci, your WH was about as enthusiastic toward recovery as a limp wet noodle.
I'm behind your decision 100%.
Really don't know what to do other than try not to have any contact with H. He knows that I don't want anything to do with him ever again. Also told him I don't care what he does and that includes going out every night. I think eventually he'll try to come back but it will be too late. I'm tired and can't do this any more.
Traci, hugs,
Just be still and breathe.
Ask yourself the hard questions...
Do you still want the M
Do you have a revised plan
Don't be surprised if he has broken NC. Can you check. When they turn like that usually the case.
Go see an attorney and see what your legal rights are. Usually consultation is free. Ask up front.
Even in a long term M does not mean you automatically get alimony. Check your rights.
Keep us posted.
I am sorry this has got to this point. You have tried hard to get it thru his head. Traci.
I agree with hope and as soon as you can put him out the better for you.
Hang in there
Tracy, be strong. He has been hurting you for months now putting you thru such a roller coaster.
Enough. Move on and get him out as soon as you can. No one deserves this kind of treatment and yes, of course, he is still in touch with OW but at this point he has to play it out till he hits rock bottom and you can't do that for him.
He needs to learn thru experience.
And he will.
Blessing
Traci, hugs,
Just be still and breathe.
Ask yourself the hard questions...
Do you still want the M
Do you have a revised plan
Don't be surprised if he has broken NC. Can you check. When they turn like that usually the case.
Go see an attorney and see what your legal rights are. Usually consultation is free. Ask up front.
Even in a long term M does not mean you automatically get alimony. Check your rights.
Keep us posted.
This is good advice. Remember, tho - get a few opinions. I could not blelive the difference in attitude the Atty's had here. Do not go with the first, do not go with the guy who promises the world, either. I could not believe the diffrent "plan of attacks" that I came across.
Usually I like the "don't fight if you don't have to" attitude, but really that was not the best idea for me.
P.S.
Your WH is a cake eating jerk.
Got home last night after 8pm on purpose. Cleaned the kitchen and did dishes and feed the dogs. Went and took a shower and piddled around for a while and wrote in my diary then went to bed and slept like a log. Got up this morning and put the dishes up and got ready for work then sat on my bed and wrote in my diary again. It is very therapeutic to write and get all my thoughts and feelings down. It is really bothering H that I ignore him and refuse to talk to him.
Been looking at my options right now. Have pulled up and printed an application for a nursing license in Tennessee. My parents live there now and I could move in with them. They would welcome me with open arms. They actually tried to get me to move there last year. I don't really know what to do right now but I am going to take it slow and make sure I don't make a rash decision.
I still don't want a divorce and would like to save my marriage but it takes 2 and he isn't in the mix. Can't do it by myself.
I decided to change my name to PhoenixRising65 because I have been reborn from the ashes.
((Phoenix))
Me likeee the idea of a change of homestead.
By the way, does he do any housework, or does he just party and leave that up to you? Do you do his laundry still?
H hasn't gone out since he informed of his decision. And I haven't done his laundry in about 12 yrs. I refuse to do anything for him or to him because that would mean I would have to acknowledge him and I refuse to do that. As for the housework I will continue to do that because I don't need him and I like things a certain way.
Funny thing is I feel fine and I didn't feel this good when he left me around this time last year or during the 5 months he was gone.
You know what is funny? My H has a tattoo on his shoulder blade of a phoenix just because he liked it and didn't know the meaning of it. If he ever realizes that I refer to myself as a phoenix then every time he sees it or thinks of it he will think of me. I know him well enough to know that is how he would think of that.
I have to admit that on Sunday when he broke the news to me that it wasn't going to work out he was real upset that I told him I hated him and that we would never be friends. The look on his face spoke volumes. But I didn't care and I still don't. I'm sticking to my guns. I guess he thought he could cake eat and he is finding out he's not. He said he didn't want to give me any hope and that is such a lie. Just by telling me about a month ago that he didn't want a divorce gives one hope and so does a lot of other things that he said over the past 6 months.
Suggestion:
Throw a little summer fiesta!
Invite your friends.
Tell your kids to invite their friends.
Play some games. (Apples To Apples ... is a great game for a large group)
Have a fun time in YOUR home.
WH is not invited.
Lots of yummy food.
Another night, have a "movie nite" in your home.
Popcorn.
Friends.
Lots of laughter.
No WH.
Have a poker party with your "girls".
Live large and loud.
This is the time to prove to yourself that not only will you SURVIVE, you intend to THRIVE.
Poop on WH.
If anyone asks why WH is not there, tell the truth.
" I did not invite him.
He does not want to be my husband. I will not be his friend."
Then, party on!
Traci,
I am so sorry. I've been where you are. My XWH was the champion cake eater - almost a whole year! I stayed too long and just didn't do Plan B soon enough or the right way. I went out with a big Plan FU bang. Couldn't help it.
Get him out and Plan B his rear. The way things are going, the OW is never going to get out of your life if you don't. As Candice Bergen said in The Women - "sometimes it takes a good dose of the affair partner...(can't remember the rest of the line) but you get my drift. You have tried and now it's time for you to have peace.
It isn't an easy road, but somehow we make our way through each stop sign.
Thanks Pepper, that sounds like a great idea. I am actually going out this Friday with my friends. I am going to go to my friend and neighbor's retirement ceremony from the navy and a reception afterward then I'm going out that night with my other friends. So I'll be a little busy.
One thing I noticed is that my H doesn't like it that I am doing what he does at home like I took out the garbage and took it to the curb yesterday. Told him to go away and that I don't need him and that was the last thing I said to him and that was at 6am.
Traci;
I hope you have been around here long enough to know that Chai is the shiz. She has been where you are, her advice is dead spot on.
As with many other posters.
..
One thing I noticed is that my H doesn't like it that I am doing what he does at home like I took out the garbage and took it to the curb yesterday. Told him to go away and that I don't need him and that was the last thing I said to him and that was at 6am.
If I remember right didn't you basically hold his hand most of the time before? Its time you let him know what he lost and save yourself. I was afraid that when he came back he wouldn't do any of the heavy lifting required to be who you deserve..
I second and third the advice from others like pep suggests. Live large and in charge without the freeloader.
I just don't care what H is doing any more. I want to be left alone and I can do for myself and I don't need him hanging around me doing things for me just to make him feel better. I'll be fine and I happen to be a very independent person. H is going to realize that he might be living at home still but he is going to be alone there.
Let me tell you one of the ways I know a BS is getting their chit together .....
They no longer "NEED" the WS.
The BS who knows the difference between WANTING her REAL husband and not NEEDING the dumb WAYWARD..... That is the BS in charge.
That, my dear, is the golden ticket.
Yes. The golden ticket.
Traci;
I hope you have been around here long enough to know that Chai is the shiz.
lol. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing.
Doing fine. funny thing is, I don't hurt and I'm not angry. I just don't care. H finally got the hint and doesn't talk to me. He does look at me when I go past but I just ignore him and go about my business. I've noticed that he has been doing things around the house that he wasn't doing before, like feeding the cats. A little bit too late, don't you think? I've been sleeping without any problems but he can't say the same. I guess you can hurt for only so long then you can't hurt any more.
Pep,
I asked god for help and then I read this you said:
The BS who knows the difference between WANTING her REAL husband and not NEEDING the dumb WAYWARD..... That is the BS in charge.
It was what I needed. I still want the dumb WS and I do not have the golden ticket yet, but now I know what I have to look for and how.
Thank you!
Blessing
I guess you can hurt for only so long then you can't hurt any more.
Great line and so true!
blessing
Had a friend of mine tell me today that what I said and did this Sunday and since will get my H attention as nothing else will. He even told me to go out with my girlfriends and let my H think I have a date. I will find out if he really cares or not. He said he did when his wife did this to him because he was the WS and it got his attention real fast and he realized that he wanted to save his marriage then but it was too late his wife decided she had had enough. Don't know if I would do that but it is an idea.
It takes more to save a M than pretending to have a date.
I did it after my H first A and it worked but then he went on to have another A 2 years later.
Do what you enjoy doing without thinking about how it will effect him....
blesssing
Don't worry, I'm going to have fun and not worry about H and what he thinks. I 'm actually going to go out with my girlfriends this Friday night. If they have their way I might not make it back home. LOL. I will make sure my daughters know where I'm at in case of an emergency but that is all.
I'm actually feeling good.
I am happy you seem to have shifted to a different stage where you are back in your power.
blessing
Yeah, it feels good to finally be in power. It's AWESOME! Lol!
It does help to have a journal to pour your heart and soul into. I do it twice a day and write like I'm talking to my H! It's great and I release a lot of tension that way and I haven't been crying at since Sunday night. That was the last time I've cried and I don't even feel like crying anymore. It's like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders.
When I got home last night H was not there. Didn't care. I actually enjoyed being by myself and doing what I wanted to do and being able to control the TV. H came home about 11:45 and the reason I know this is because the dog barked. He was sober and grumpy.
I feel good this morning and I happen to be happy today. I know that I am in control of my own happiness and it really makes me feel good knowing that my H isn't happy.
I am convinced that WH can't be happy till they get OW out of their system. YOur WH is trying to get over her, but he can't. He still has feeling for her when he knows very will that living with her does not work (he tried it and by his own admission it was not working)
YET...he must till be thinking about her in some way or another and that is the main obstacle in developing feelings for you...
He is just a loser, I am sorry to say this again as I said so a few months ago but now I am really convinced.
Blessing
Atena, I know you are right and I have thinking the same thing but I am afraid when he does realize that he still loves me it will be too late. I am just going to go on with my life. I have said several times before that he is still foggy.
I know that I hurt my H on Sunday night with what I said and I said some very ugly and nasty things but I really don't care. I know what I did brought me down to his level but he needed a big jolt! I hope it opened his eyes some.
Phoenix,
at this point I am not sure your H will develop feelings of love for you again. they do not come back like magic, you have to work at them and he has refused to do so with MB or any other program for that matter.
You are doing the right thing...you can't wait forever for someone to realize he loves you and I do not believe there is such a realization really, because the whole point of MB is that in order to gain feeling of love for BS you need to work on them otherwise they do not come back on their own (that happens only on movies and fairly tales!)
blessing
Waywards really do a number on us betrayed spouses. And ours did a number on us. Even though my H was an a$$ and an idiot I do know that he still loves me and I know he will eventually come to that realization but it will be too late when he does realize it. So far I have been right about him since he left me last year. I even figured he would probably leave me again. I just think he is still in a fog but I am not going to hang around til he gets unfogged. I am tired and want to move on with my life. I am not going to say what I am going to do in the future because I don't really know what I'll do. That is one thing I have learned, you never know what you are going to do until it happens to you. I just want to take one day at a time. I am just a baby now and I have to learn to crawl before I can learn to walk and I have to learn to walk before I can learn to run. Right now I am learning to crawl.
Good way to put it.
However, for someone who loves you....for now he is sure not showing it even one bit. You deserve better.
Blessing
Oh, I know I deserve better and I will get it. Like my H will get his when the Karma bus comes around. Told him that too on Sunday!
Durabo... Latin for "I Will Endure."
Oh Traci(I will get used to the new name too), I am so sorry. It hasn't turned out the way you wanted. I remember clearly the day that you posted that your WH wanted to some home. It gave me that little push while I had just gone into Plan B to know that it WAS possible. Even though it hasn't turned out to be marital recovery for you at this point, I do see personal recovery coming through. That alone gives me hope. Thank you.
Hey Traci,
Its taken what I would have guessed the apropiate or normal amount of time for you to see that WH is realy a cake-eater. Probably a lot by your eyes being opened with his affair and I hope the many people here who hate such selfish abuse of people like you.
Now I want to dig a little into your motivation and expectations of a Husband, and a little into why you ended up in this situation. This is stuff you will have to explore with a certiffied counselor, but as someone who has seen this sort of bondage, and been there myself in ways, I am pretty confident that there is something to look into.
What I know about you is ..
1) You hold a tough and demanding job.
2) You are a take charge caretaker with every aspect of your life.
3) You serve others, even when they are unable to take care of themselves, you do the work for them, try to make decisions for them and guide them.
In Short you are an awesome example of someone I would want on my side any day of the week.
You have heard the expression, " Behind every good Man is a good Woman" right? Well he has to be a good Man first Traci, you can't make that part of the equation happen. He has to decide that for himself. You have certainly done your part, he just doesn't want to play that game, he is spoiled and lazy, and your caring for him is NOT what made him that way. He is the one who let himself get in that condition.
I only say that because now with your new-found understanding that you never needed him and are better off without HIM, (if he continues to cake-eat), I hope you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The person that you are was and is awesome and true, you just did to much for someone who took you for granted. Probably the old saw' "A man marries a woman thinking she will never change, and a Woman marries a Man thinking that she will change him" is the culprit.
Many men marry women and treat them like thier mommy, refusing to grow up, and women who give thier husbands everything many times just keep giving as thier husbands just keep taking and don't live up to the potential thier wives see in them. Its a sad story you hear all over, here and in the world, sadly its the nature of the beast. Woman stress themselves untill they fall apart as nurturing is more natural for them, but it happens with men too.
I am glad you came here and know that it doesn't have to be that way, that there is a union that works in marriage and that it can be realized. It shows your character that instead of falling into the crap that he did and compromising the truth, you fought for what is right.
Don't let what happens with him change who you are, and especially, realize in time, that his actions are his own fault and that you are doing everything for him to grow up.
I hear you that you are through with him, I am glad you are done with the alien he has become. If you get him out of your life he will probably want back in when he realizes what he lost, and that is your decision to make. Either way don't cast pearls before swine anymore but do remember that what you have been giving has been pearls.
I told you a long time ago to make sure he does the heavy lifting in restoring your marriage. He hasn't done any, maybe a dark plan B will wake him up and you will forgive him as he treats you like he should, but it gonna have to be Him doing the work. Make him respect what you have been to him either way, and in the future don't pick any poor puppys from the shelter, not for your other half anyways, unless you want to train them and bear all the weight of what should be a partnership, not a day-care
Had a friend of mine tell me today that what I said and did this Sunday and since will get my H attention as nothing else will. He even told me to go out with my girlfriends and let my H think I have a date. I will find out if he really cares or not. He said he did when his wife did this to him because he was the WS and it got his attention real fast and he realized that he wanted to save his marriage then but it was too late his wife decided she had had enough. Don't know if I would do that but it is an idea.
yeah the problems with pretending you have a date are varied.
1) They don't come back because they want just you, they still want both their fantasy and thier home. They still want "It All". They don't realize you are it all.
2) It adds to the instability of the marriage because it re-enforces how the happiness or unhappiness is rooted in "You just aren't able to make me happy", or 'You aren't what i wanted" fantasies.
3) The most decieving is that affairs are understandable and that people can't make changes to themselves by making decisions. Having a date threat just separates the two even more and justifies the affair. Remember its the secrecy that affairs thrive in, and its the intimacy that suffers in all lies between the two. "Two wrongs don't make a right" and when a wayward come to thier senses they depend on the one who didn't fall for the lie.
For personal recovery why lower yourself?
H keeps trying to talk to me like I am still his friend which I am not.Told him to go away and leave alone and that we are no longer friends. Funny, he is too stupid to realize that he had more to lose than I do. H has lost everything and I really lost nothing except my best friend.
Overall, I am happy with my life. I might not like what is going on right now but I am happy. I know that I can not depend on someone else for my happiness but that I create my own happiness. I really don't regret what I have done my whole life, I might not be actually like some of my choices but I don't regret how my life has turned out. I like myself. My H, on the other hand is not happy with his life and depends on others and events for his happiness. So, he is doomked to be miserable and I told him. I told him that he deserved to be miserable for the rest of his life after what he had done to me and our marriage. also told him he would eventually get what he deserved.
I will be fine.
... My H, on the other hand is not happy with his life and depends on others and events for his happiness. So, he is doomked to be miserable and I told him....
....I will be fine.
Yeah thats the whole story in a nutshell IMO. Good Traci, glad to see yur adjusting.
Kinda reminds me of that saying;
There are three kinds of ppl in the world;
1) Those that make things happen.
2) Those that watch things happen.
3) Those that wonder what happened.
You are not one for standing still are you ?
Even though I am doing fine I am still sad that this chapter of my life is over. I would be lying if I said it didn't hurt. I still love my H very much but there is nothing I can do anymore and now everything is God's hands. I am leaving it up to Him.
Phoenix, you do not know how things will turn out for him and if at the end he will come to his senses and try to R.
The only thing for sure is that it has to come from him at this point, he has to literally beg to return. Anything short of that would be a much of the same scenario. It is out of our hands how much our WH want to ruin everything including themselves.
DO you work with you WH? Did he find a job in another school?
Blessing
My H is partners in a pest control company now. He isn't making very much. I am a nurse at a hospital here in town. It helps that I don't have to see him. I try to avoid him as much as possible at home.
Have to admit that today is hard for me. I have been doing fine this whole week until today. I just feel like crying and screaming and taking a baseball bat to my H. Maybe it is a good thing I am at work instead of at home. I just feel like having a pity party for myself. It really hurts right now.
It is difficult I know it is sunday and I too would like to spend it with my WH doing fun stuff, however, he is not the guy I knew. If he were here now it would be a nightmare. He is so messed up.
Just know that he is not much better off than you even if it might look so from a distance. He is addicted to OW. He knows he is doing wrong but he is not strong enough to end it.
blessing
I know my H is not over the OW but he doesn't realize this even though I have told him. He thinks because he hasn't seen her in 6 months that it is over. That is not true. Told him that as long as he had feelings for her that we didn't stand a chance. I know that he still loves me but he has to realize that as well. I don't plan on hanging around for him to find out. The reason I know that he isn't over OW is that he has done some things when he has ben drunk and doesn't remember. And yes, his drinking has increased. I've noticed this and have told him that he has been developing a drinking problem over the past 3-4 months. He is not handling things very well. He went out Wednesday, Thursday and Friday night and didn't stay out very late. As a matter of fact he was home before 9:30 Friday night and was drunk. He is going to kill himself if he doesn't watch it.
I do have a journal that I write in once or twice a day and my H knows this and I almost wish he would read it. It would scortch him. In it I am writing to him or God and I hold nothing back. I always feel better when I am through. Wish I had my journal with me now, I could use about now. I will be glad when I quit hurting.
ConstantProcess, I just want you to know that I would never go out on a date while still married. "2 wrongs don't make a right." I don't believe in dating while still being married. I'm not even going to let him believe that I am. That is just not me. I am true blue to the end. If he wants to believe that I am dating while I am out with my girlfriends then that is his imagination doing it not me. I am not even going to lead him to believe I am dating someone. Right now I don't think I will date at all for a long time. I've got too many other things would rather do. Like further my education. I would like to get my Master's degree in Medical Physics.
ConstantProcess, I just want you to know that I would never go out on a date while still married. "2 wrongs don't make a right." I don't believe in dating while still being married. I'm not even going to let him believe that I am. That is just not me. I am true blue to the end. If he wants to believe that I am dating while I am out with my girlfriends then that is his imagination doing it not me. I am not even going to lead him to believe I am dating someone. Right now I don't think I will date at all for a long time. I've got too many other things would rather do. Like further my education. I would like to get my Master's degree in Medical Physics.
Thats what I thought about you anyways Traci, I just saw it posted so I said that. I too feel the same way.
Hence the comment about "Why lower yoursef?" It was more of a agreement about how people with self respect,(like yourself), would think
Hi Traci,
Just checking in. Keep forgetting you changed your name.
You are doing well and on a roller coaster ride that has less dips these days and more highs for your wellbeing.
Plan B is good even though you are limited because you are both in the same home. Bet these days he is thinking more about you instead of OW because you are acting out of character and not being his biggest cheerleader.
Waywards are dumb.
Blessings.
....H keeps trying to talk to me like I am still his friend which I am not.Told him to go away and leave alone and that we are no longer friends. Funny, he is too stupid to realize that he had more to lose than I do. H has lost everything and I really lost nothing except my best friend...
This is the most painful part and those betrayed I think feel this the most. They lost thier best friend, thier friend betrayed them, the one they trusted with thier life is found to not care for it anymore and discarded it without warning. Its like you can't trust yourself anymore. There is a rift and a loss that goes beyond any other temporal value.
You nailed it Traci
I'm worried about my H. I came home and he was gone and because he moved out. I know he is drinking again and I know everyone is going to say that is his problem not mine, but I still care. I guess he won't stay out too late since he is always home at a decent time.
I have to share my one fantasy/dream with everyone that I suspect we all have here. I want my H to finally admit he was wrong and that he loves and will do anything to get me back. But I know in reality that it will never happen. It is just a dream though, and my dreams don't come true. So back to reality I go.
Don't worry about me. I will be fine. I know I will have good days and bad days. Actually I'm having a lot more good than bad. Today was a bad day, not too bad though.
Traci, my XH is drinking heavily. Sober for almost 15 years.
He drank and fell into PP. What a love story.
Fantasy is good for us too and for some it becomes reality when WS returns.
Hang tight.
Traci, the thing is, if your WH has decided to fall into the drinking trap, no wonder MB didn't work on him. MB doesn't work while their is an addiction.
This is something that he is going to have to deal with and there will be no educating him. Once he gets the drinking out of the way, the right way, then he may be able to get on board with MB.
Again, I am truly sorry.
Know that you have laid an excellent foundation of love for him, and that its up to him now to pull his crap together. I know you worry, and love him, but he must look for help himself.
I'm probably not the only one saying this to you but you can't do anything more for him right now. Show him AA and where he can get help. You have allready shown him you love him.
Keep the oxygen mask on yourself, thats how you do it.
Traci, have you gone to Alnon. Great program and it is for YOU not him.
I would not point anything out to him, no AA no nothing. Have him deal with his life. Enough of being his mommy. I think is very un-appealing to a man when his wife acts like mom.
Leave him to his own life, the life he chose and see what happens
In the meantime have fun and plan fun things for you.
Get that degree or get into an activity you enjoy,
blessing
Best thing tho. Start taking only one class this fall. You may feel that more credit hours are helpful, but do NOT over stress yourself.
If my be too late to get accepted at the U, in a nursing/health program, but you can get accepted, take ONE class, and submit application to the specific area of study in the fall. Many people think winter applications are easier to get passed through.
Make sure you are paying graduate rates and that the instructors know your intentions. Then see an academic advisor, asap for the future plan.
In MI (where I am) it is very hard right now to even get accepted into nursing or related field. (under or post grad).
Hi Traci,
I really like the new name. I think it really shows your inner strength. I haven't been around much, just doing the normal life thing, which was one of my dreams. I didn't think it would come true and it totally did. Just not in the way I imagined. Your dream hasn't come true today, just today, but please remember that G-d has plans for you. Plans to prosper.
Don't worry about me. I will be fine. I know I will have good days and bad days. Actually I'm having a lot more good than bad. Today was a bad day, not too bad though.
I don't know if I ever told you the analogy from a sympathy card that a friend got when she lost her son. Grief/sadness like is a wave, you don't know when it's coming, but when it hit, it hits hard and we hurt, and then just like a wave is goes back out to sea. I was separated from my H for over two years and I had my good days, I moved on with my life, just like everyone on here suggests, but I still had bad days. And that's because no matter how much distance or time was put between us, I still loved my H, missed him horribly and wanted the chance to rebuild a brand new marriage.
I would have to agree with the others. If his drinking is worse and he has a problem, stay OUT OF IT. That is his battle with G-d and what I have learned is that G-d will use anyone, and anything to get what he desires most and that's to have a relationship with each one of us. Addiction was in the center of what was going on in my old M. I honestly had no idea, I thought it was just a "normal" A. It wasn't because as long as the addiction was alive, there was no recovery and rebuilding.
It wasn't until G-d brought my H down to his knees in the manner HE needed that things started to shift for my H and his addiction. This wasn't MY battle at all. It was between him and G-d.
I am so filled with admiration from the strength and journey you have walked. Please keep your eyes on G-d. He WILL give you your dreams, just not the way you envisioned or when.
.. Grief/sadness like is a wave, you don't know when it's coming, but when it hit, it hits hard and we hurt, and then just like a wave is goes back out to sea. ...
... and what I have learned is that G-d will use anyone, and anything to get what he desires most and that's to have a relationship with each one of us. Addiction was in the center of what was going on in my old M. I honestly had no idea, ...
..I am so filled with admiration from the strength and journey you have walked. Please keep your eyes on G-d. He WILL give you your dreams, just not the way you envisioned or when.
All this is so true, and it touched me Queenie. I realize myself that My late wifes problems were not mine to bear when it came down to her addictions and i could not do any more than I did. But mostly what I recognize in what you said was how God used others to reach me even in that terrible experience, and to teach me that in some things He is the only source for everyone.
There is a limit to how much we can help another and even then all we can do is Let God handle them, because He knows them better than us and knows what they need in a special way we will never understand. Just as He works in us, personnally, privatly and unique.
1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
The grief can be confusing and sometimes overwhelming emotionally, but in time God leads us to the place he has designed for us, and it will be as wonderful as He promised.
I asked God to do what ever it took to get my H attention and realize that he still loved me and wanted to work on ou marriage. Right now my H is unable to cope with the guilt and stress that is why he is drinking so much and I think God might be using this to teach him a lesson. My H will eventually hit bottom. The only thing that I am scared of is that my H will try to get me to help him. But that is something he will have to do himself.
I am so glad to hear from you again, Queenie, I 've missed you so much.
We are all here to learn about ourselves and to understand that god is always with is because it is in us and we do not have to look for it anywhere.
Unfortunately it is not guaranteed that all people will learn from the painful experiences that are meant to show us a better way to live, that are meant to awaken us.
WS at time continue along the wrong path for years and they die without having seen the light of the day or without having the integrity and courage to admit they made a mistake and make amends.
I would not count on your H hitting bottom if he does that would be a blessing to him...but there is no guarantee..
Please do not focus on these illusions. now you know you can be much happier without the torture you WH has been inflicting on you for many many months.
Remember that the sun warms both the sinner and the saint and that god is pure love and the idea of a punishment or other on the WS is just not the way it is.
The worse punishement for the WS is the h3ll they created in themselves, if they recognize it as such.
Some WS might see the new lifestyle outside of the M and with OW as an improvement. The proof of that is that many do not return to the M and that many continue with OW for years.
Go figure why.
Life is a mistery no use trying to make sense out of it..
blessing
The only thing that I am scared of is that my H will try to get me to help him. But that is something he will have to do himself.
My H and I are in a similar situation with our son.
What we have learned is this.
There is a payoff for helping someone who is making good effort.
There is no payoff for doing things for someone who is not making an honest effort.
The trick is to recognize the difference.
The other trick is to not own their bad consequences.
Prayers for you.
I am not clear on the relationship between alcoholism and affairs.
I see Queeneys husband and an alcohol problem and so does Phoenix's however how does this relate to adultery?
Blessing
He is drinking now becasue of the guilt and the stress of what he did. But don't worry about me, I'm not going to hold my breath on him coming back. I just know that he cannot face what he has done and is trying to hide from it by drinking so he can forget. But that only helps for so long, eventually he will have to face reality, hopefully he will not destroy himself in the process. His daughters will eventually give him what for about his drinking. They are watching him and have already said something about it, not to him but to me.
Well being an alcoholic/addict I feel that I can address this two fold.
1. When the addict or anyone who is practicing an addiction is involved in the most selfish, self-centered disease already. So working the MB principles or any principles that tells them to put someone first in their life is a foreign concept for lack of a better word. That's why you can't rebuild a marriage when someone is doing their addiction.
2. When I first came here, I learned that the A was an addiction in and of itself. Being one myself, I completely bought into this concept. It helped me understand the problem more clearly, gave me insight on how to work the Plans better and made the most horrific situation seems palable because I KNEW that G-d was working on my side and that all that needed to happen was for WS to hit BOTTOM, just like any other drunk or addict.
Make sense? Or any your question.
Ah Phoenix, the TRUE alcoholic must be DESTROYED to be reborn the way G-d wants.
Yes, this makes sense. But H hardly ever drank before the affair and started drinking a lot after he left me. Didn't drink except once a week when he came home. Now he is drinking at least 4 times a week. I've noticed over the years that people try to hide in drugs and alcohol when they want to forget things. I made sure I didn't do that when my H left me last year. As a matter of fact I can count on one hand how many times I had a drink and then I might of had only 2 drinks if I was lucky.
I am still praying to God several times a day for my H and my marriage. Like Queenie, my H affair has brought me closer to God and brought me back into the fold. God works in mysterious ways and who are we to question what he does and how he does it. I know that he will lead my H to where he belongs.
I am still praying to God several times a day for my H and my marriage. Like Queenie, my H affair has brought me closer to God and brought me back into the fold. God works in mysterious ways and who are we to question what he does and how he does it. I know that he will lead my H to where he belongs.
What you are saying here is the an addictive personality is prone to affairs? so an alcoholic would be more prone than one who is not?
Phenix's WH did not drink before.
My WH drinks more than average but did not get drunk. His mom and dad however are both alcoholics and both engaged in affairs. They are still married.
Blessing
What queenie said rings true, my wifes addiction issues were part of a labrinynth of emotional problems that messed with her in many ways. But the main theme is the fear, stubborness and denial cycle they live in, going from one to the other it seems.
Everyone is different and has different experiances in this so I wont attempt to predict where your WH is, but it is probably part of the denial which is prompting his drinking, along with the selfish motivation of hiding out from the truth.
Either way, You can only show him the door, he has to walk thru it, and its not your responsibility to keep him upright. Its his. beleive Me, God can do a better job at getting his attention if we put it in his hands. All the crying and sorrys should be directed at Him, not anyone else.
One thing that I am proud of is that I never once begged or cried when he told me that nothing had changed. As a matter of fact I told him to get out that I wanted nothing else to do with him. I cried later when I was alone.
What you are saying here is the an addictive personality is prone to affairs? so an alcoholic would be more prone than one who is not?
No, I am not saying that at all. I don't pretend to even know that.
I'm just saying that it was very understandable for me to buy into the affair being an addiction theory because I am one myself and I could see the similarities.
I asked God to do what ever it took to get my H attention
Never underestimate the power of a praying wife... (a book or somebody else's quote)
My DH used to freak out when I would tell him that I was praying and that I had other people praying for him. He used to tell me to NOT pray for him because he knew.
Power of a Praying wife is a book of prayers by a woman named Stormie. I have that book and another one by her. It is a good book and use her prayers and come up with my own.
Want everyone to know that I appreciate all your support. I know I have said this before but I really do appreciate it. We never tell each other thank you enough. I love everyone here.
I want to share this wonderful post from one of the participants on the Eckhart Tolle forum of which I am part of.
It has become very clear to me over the years, that some of our best teachers are those who violate our personal boundaries or sense of honesty and truth. These are the opportunities for growth like no others. These are the opportunities to clearly learn, define, know and live by your truth. These are the opportunities to realize that there is no law that says you have to enable a codependent, there is no law that says you have to "be nice" and allow things that don't resonate with your truth simply because you were married or they are related to you. If you know someone is not truthful and the relationship is not life affirming, you do him or her or yourself no favors by enabling that in your life. It's taken me 58 years to "get it" and I truly do get it now. You can say no from a place of loving presence, and that's that "Quality No" we discuss here and there. No excuses necessary.
I am confuzzled... Is your Wh living with you or out of the house?
Are his "things" still there?
Seriously I hope he has left. This is not going to be pretty...
I think WH still lives with Phoenix as he has no where to go.
Blessing
Yes, H still lives at home but sleeps in DD19's room. He cannot afford to move out and legally I cannot make him leave. I don't talk to him or acknowledge him. He tries to talk to me but I ignore him.
Yes, H still lives at home but sleeps in DD19's room. He cannot afford to move out and legally I cannot make him leave. I don't talk to him or acknowledge him. He tries to talk to me but I ignore him.
Impossible situation. What does WS think will happen. He can't just exist in his waywardness in the house. What is HIS plan.
His choices?
He can rent a room in some fleabag house
He can work on the M
He can join AA
Please join Alanon. You can only change yourself. It is a good start for yourself.
Yeah but she has been Mommy so long now she finds it hard to kick him out, change the locks, and there is allways the complications legally if she files separation papers ar whatever it would take to get him to leave.
If she does anything legally the consequences might damage an allready damaged marraige right?
Maybe someone has an idea on how to get him out when he just can't takea the hint that he is hurting her the more wimpy he acts.
My vote is change the locks if he won't leave voluntarily.
My vote is that she starts making changes within her self.
Insanity is keep doing more of the same and expecting different results.
Get to Alnon and learn how not to enable. Continue Plan B. Does H give money to the house? Time to put on those big girl pants and protect yourself.
I believe that she handles all the bills herself. She told us way back.
Alanon is an excellent choice of course and I too recommend it. There are some great people who can be supportive and are very insightful.
Legally I cannot kick him out of the house. I can change the locks but he can break in and I could not stop him. And yes I pay for everything since he lost a good paying job because of his affair. He only makes $11/hr and he has too much credit card debt. Plus he smokes now which he didn't use to do and won't stop. If I could get him out I would. The only choice I have now is get a divorce with me getting the house, then he would have to leave. I am going for a simple dissolution of marriage in Florida. That means we just divide everything up ourselves and no lawyers involved. It will only take about 30 days to go through. Actually I am going to file on my own and have him served. I don't need him to agree with the divorce. I think he thinks I won't do it but he is wrong.
This is frustrating because you don't seem to be able to plan B.
You have been hoping and praying and there doesn't seem to be a way for you to use MB to help your marriage.
You have asked him to get out and he refuses?
is there anyone who can convince him to go? Besides the law.
I know change is hard. I am the poster child for this.
But until we change there will be no new results. Would you rather have this drifting and be second best till he changes? He is not going to change till he sees your new eyes.
You are running the hotel and he is a guest that gets every benefit and he is not even paying.
We are rooting for you.
I don't want a divorce but I have no choice anymore. He won't work on the marriage and he keeps saying it is over and that he doesn't feel any different than he did when he came back. He has told me several times that he loves me but not as a husband loves a wife. Look, I know that you don't have all the guilt and stress that he had if you don't care and love someone and he did. I also know that when you drink all inhibitions are gone and you say and do things you wouldn't say or do normally because they are there hiding inside you. My H has told a couple of times he loves me when he had been drunk. I never even said that I loved him or asked him if he loved me. The next day he says he doesn't remember it and that I can't take what he says seriously when he is drunk. I know he does love me but he has to clear his mind of all this fog and realize this. But I don't know if I can wait for him to realize this.
Emailed a friend of mine today who is a therapist. We have been friends for over 30yrs and just to let everyone know we were high school sweethearts. I haven't seen him in over 25 yrs. and have no urge to. He is happily married with 2 little girls. The reason we never got married is because he decided to become a priest. After I got married he left the seminary a year later and a year after that he got married. I am not involved with him emotionally so don't worry about that. He has been my friend through this thing and very supportive and giving me advice. He has let me sound off in emails over the months. This was the first time in months that I've emailed him. He is probably going not again. His wife knows about the emails and she reads them and I want her to. As a matter of fact I requested that she read them so she would not have to worry about anything. So I was trying to protect his marriage as well. He doesn't have to worry about his marriage because thay do everything together and talk all the time. He has a great marriage, a marriage that I wish I had. He got it right and I am proud of him.
Phoenix, whether he loves you or not is irrelevant. His actions are what counts.
YOu deserve to be with someone who WANTS to be with you, who says PHOENIX I enjoy your company and your love immensely.
YOu deserve this.
A person who lovers another acts very differently from our WHs, truly.
They do not love anybody especially themselves. They are not capable of love right now, they are only capable of addictions.
Blessing
I think you should only email your friend for advice, and with the approval of your husband. If you are looking for a friendship from an xBF who is married, you are looking for trouble. This is an EP that you should have on yourself, don't build a friendship with a married man.
I agree about not building a frienship with the married man 100%.
I do not agree that phoenix should get any sort of approval from her H who has checked out from her life and could care less about who she emails.
blessing
I've been friends with this man for over 30yrs and have no interest in him except as a friend and he never goes anywhere without his wife. Which is the way it is suppose to be. We have contact a couple of times a year just to catch up except when he was counseling me last year via email. He just tells me to be careful where it concerns my H. He just wants me to be happy and if it means being with my H he is all for it. He is a follower of Dr. Harley's advice.
Don't worry about me and my friend, I want my H too much. I have a tendency to avoid men who have an interest in me.
My friends think I should start dating and I tell them no because I am still married and two wrongs don't make a right. Plus I don't even have an interest in men and don't think I will any time soon.
The last thing I am going to let everyone know is that I think I am pregnant. That is just what I need right now with everything going on and I'm 45yrs old too.
Oh MY.
Congratulations on the pregnancy. The child could not ask for a better Mom IMO.
This might be the thing that finnally defines what you will do about Mr. Empty pants. You will have a child to be responsible for and you don't need his selfish crap.
As far as the ex-priest goes. If you will let his wife in on everything it will probably be a good thing to confer with him. I am sure both of you are responsible people and it is possible for men to have respectful relationships with women. I would not make him my only source thogh, that would be obviously dangerous, but you allready know that, and are able to se that grown ups do not go backward, they go forward relationship wise.
i would get his advice as to who you should see for personal recovery as in an IC, because he knows you and your capacity, strengths and weaknesses, and probably many deep personal convictions you have. That is ALL though, because after that well, you know we are only human, and you might hurt yourself in a relationship that is connected to your past, instead of one that must be forged on the actions taken now. You can't go back, and who wants to, but there is wisdom in the warnings about past romantic relationships, you are to smart to ignore this. I also don't believe for a second that your not capable of making a new life, with or without your WH, from the ashes of what he has burned.
I am glad you have a friend that you can call on who can support you, backs Dr. H, and is a connection to your highest aspirations of life way back when.
I would be reticent if I did not warn you that this is now, not then, and don't confuse the two. I would draw closer to his wife and communicate thru her. His marriage deserves that respect
My friends think I should start dating and I tell them no because I am still married and two wrongs don't make a right. Plus I don't even have an interest in men and don't think I will any time soon.
The last thing I am going to let everyone know is that I think I am pregnant. That is just what I need right now with everything going on and I'm 45yrs old too.
Dont jump forward and be worried about dating. You need to live for today and see where you are going. I have been D and have no interest in dating. I need to raise my D, she has been through enough and so have I. Don't need a distraction to screw up my peaceful place.
Did you have a pregnancy test? There are ones that will be able to tell you even if you are a few days late. Could it possibly be menopause? stress? This is something you need to find out immediately.
blessings.
I agree, it could be manopause or stress, I would not be so sure you are actually pregnant.Get a test before you panic.
blessing
I'm going to wait until Friday to take a test. I haven't been showing any signs of menopause and the women in my family don't start going through menopause until their mid fifties. Also I never missed a period and my cycle was never off when H left me last year and I was stressed the whole time. I hope I'm not pregnant but if I am I will have to just deal with it. I'm not going to let H know because if he is going to stay with me it will because he wants to be with me and not because of me being pregnant. Plus I don't he would even stay but he probably would.
I had a good day today even though I was quiet. Working again tomorrow. I need to work to keep myself busy. Going to try to pick up some time at a GI Center a couple of times a week just to keep busy. I'll only work about 6-8 hrs at a time.
A friend of mine told me today that H is probably seeing OW again and I told her I don't care anymore. Truth is even though I thought the same thing I didn't like hearing it, it hurt. I know that even if he is seeing her it won't last and the karma bus will run over them both soon.
Praying all the time.
how late are you? So many tests are within a few days from missing. I would not wait.
Well when God closes one door another opens. If you are prego then this child will replace the one who is leaving.
I'm with ya, him sticking around for the baby? I would think it would be so he could catch the crumbs from your table Traci, and using that as an excuse.
Anyways I am confidant you will handle this with good character.
Today I printed out the simple dissolution of marriage forms. I plan on filling them out and giving H his copy to fill out. I can't wait any longer. I am tired of being used and being taken for granted. H thinks I won't do it. It will cost me about $500 to file. Like I was told today if he finally realizes that I have moved on and don't need him maybe he will wake up. But if he doesn't I can't live like this any more. I have too much self respect and I not only like myself, I love myself. I still have hope but I can't sit here and do nothing. I have to go on with my life.
Still praying.
I took my pregnancy test and it was negative. I feel so much better. I feel like a weight has been taken off of me. I didn't want to be pregnant even if my marriage was going great. Now I can go forward with my life without anything holding me back. I am actually looking forward to what the future holds for me.
I am glad you are not pregnant!
After the D you will feel free like a bird. That WH of yours was really a ball and chain, sorry to say that but it is true...what a mopper..
Is it easy to date and find someone nice in the States? You are my age, I was just wondering
Blessing
I can get a date now but not interested. I feel that the men around my age have already been married at least once but how many of them have screwed around on their ex-wives. They are not going to admit that they had an affair in the past. And those that have never married and are around my age then there has to be something wrong with them. Just not interested. There are plenty of single men here and I know some nice ones. I could go on EHarmony.com to look for men in my area! Lol!
Talked to DD 19 today and she said her father is hiding behind a bottle. She even said he drinks at least 4 times a week and she told him that he doesn't drink just one or two drinks but gets drunk. It's bad when a 19 year old can tell that her father can't deal with what he is doing and drowning his sorrows. She said he was hurting and he doesn't even know it. She agrees that as long as he isn't over the OW then we don't stand a chance. She thinks he is an idiot.
Still praying and hoping.
PhoenixRising65,
I've read your story and I truly admire your strength in all that your story had put you through, you sound like a very forgiving person, but you can't do this anymore, he gives you nothing, tells you nothing positive and shows you no respect, love or compassion.....you are worth more than you know, certainly more than this man has sent your way.....
I heard in your words that you are now in a better place, don't take any steps backwards, his problems no longer are your responsibilities.....you need to move on and see what life has to offer you........
I wish you the best and hope you find and live all the happiness you want, you deserve every little bit that you will get out of life......
Keep an open mind, be open to meeting new people, right now you only see all the problems anyone available might have, but when you take a better look I think you will see that there are good men out there.......they are all not like your husband.....this time really look, take the time you need.......
Enjoy life for what it is in the moment, don't worry about a past you can't change or a future that hasn't happened yet........stay in the moment and really live each day with gratefulness and really seeing what is good in life.......as small as they might be..........((((HUGS))))
I can get a date now but not interested. I feel that the men around my age have already been married at least once but how many of them have screwed around on their ex-wives. They are not going to admit that they had an affair in the past. And those that have never married and are around my age then there has to be something wrong with them. Just not interested. There are plenty of single men here and I know some nice ones. I could go on EHarmony.com to look for men in my area! Lol!...
You forgot the ones who where loyal and abandoned and now have to much baggage, and aren't looking because they aren't intrested either, Lol!
I filled out an Eharmony thing for free just 4 months after my wifes death, knew I wasn't in any position to date, heck I didn't even like me and I wasn't interested or ready but I did it just because it was free and interseting.
I was completly honest and wondered what they would reply with because it would prove to me if they were bogus or not. Surprisingly they came back with a sorta rejection notice, That I should understand that they aren't for everyone lol. I wrote them that I had some faith in their service because as it is, I knew I was not fit for dating.
I have an aversion to match-making though. I have allways had the chance to date but have found other things more pressing at the time and more important, but that probably just how my life was working out really. Dating can be fun .
I will probably try them if I ever get to the place where I feel the need to date, but there are so many other things I have in front of me and so many other forms of relationship that give me joy, and truthfully, are more important right now. I am just not interested either, thats OK and right now a welcome break in my life. Having a life before I want some to share it with seems more important of a priority. Plus seeing my children adjust is still something that concerns me a bit. Just about everything concerns me more than a romantic relationship or companion. I'd rather scoop oil from the delta.
School sounds great and I am gonna salvage what I can from my professional days and see what I can do in education, I have been offered teaching positions before but maybe with some colledge I would find one that I had some passion for. Thats what I want is passion for something, not for someone. That is what means balance to me anyways.
Glad you don't have to bear a child at this stage of your life Traci, your profession can use you in it and you could use the break from being a care taker in your personal life. Hope you get that program at the colledge you mentioned, and am glad life is getting better for ya.
There might be nice guys out there...however, I just went to get my bike repaired and the bike guy has been after me for a while. He is married and knows I am separated.
He would just love to get me in the sack and he was pretty clear about it this afternoon.
Then I went to the grocery store and this guy who was all buffed up and was wearing a wedding ring started flirting with me, I did not give him much credit and went on my way
Hello, hello, hello, is there anybody in there (pink floyd)who does not cheat or does not think about it?
What planet am I from? I slept with 2 guys in my whole live, I am 44.
I spoke to a High school girlfriend the other day, she is my age and she slept with 30 men. She said it is pretty average, and yes some where married.
Wow.
blessing
I have always stayed away from married men. I've always had this philosophy that if you don't want it done to you don't do it to someone else. Unfortunately it was done to me but I'm not going to do it to my H even though he deserves it. I have too much respect for myself plus it isn't in my makeup. But I understand where you are coming from, Atena.
Still hoping and praying.
Yes, I stay away from them too. We know the pain of it all.
The point I was trying to make by saying that we are not willing to go low is that we are a rarity.
Just by personal experience I am surrounded by people whose only purpose is the pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of pain.
It seems that people are willing to go thru the karma wheel (pleasure-pain cycle) without a blink saying that that is just human and that life has those ups and downs.
SO people marry are happily M for a while, then they are happy no more...many have As, are in bliss with the A for a while..then the A starts to crumble and they start all over again...
They do not have a plan to prevent this from happening again..then what happens is that one day I am going to meet someone like that and of course the relationship is doomed from the beginning.
But what do most people care? Not much...their answwer is: that's life.
I do not know if this makes sense..if it doesn't just ignore my ramble.
blessing
what you say does make sense,Atena, but if you finally want a re;ationship you now know what to do and it would work because of you. You would let the new love of your life know what you wanted from him and vice versa.
H did not go out last night but commandeered the TV when I went to the bathroom. Boy that turned into a fight. I left the room and did my own thing and then he never watched the movie he rented after all. As a matter of fact he went and bought a bottle of rum and drank again. He is suppose to go camping with his friend Tyler tonight. I heard him talking to him earlier about it. Don't care, at least he will be out of my hair tonight. Unfortunately it is suppose to storm tonight! Looks like he will be drunk and wet. H is still acting like he is in his twenties and it is going to kill him. H got mad at me last night and said why are you talking to me now and he was and he has been talking to me this whole time with me ignoring him. I had to talk to him because of the TV situation and that lead to other things. He doesn't want to talk about anything now and that is fine with me. He doesn't want to talk because he figures it will make me mad and it doesn't. He is still trying to talk to me today.
Tomorrow is another DDay anniversary for me and H doesn't even realize it. I'll be at work. Things are kinda over now so I'll be okay. It's a shame, he had it made. He had a wife who would have done anything for him, who worked hard and he had plenty of toys. I had lost a lot of weight and looked great. I had been going to school and got lasik surgery on my eyes. I lloked and felt great. I even wanted sex all the time and he was 50# overweight and I didn't care, I just wanted him. He did lose that weight at the beginning of last year and has kept it off. I was proud of him for that because not only did he look great his diabetes was under control. His cholesterol isn't though. Yes, he had it made and now he doesn't.
Still hoping and praying.
Phoenix,
trying to rationalize his state of mind does not work.
Yes, from your point of view he had it all and yet HE is unhappy and went and had an A and now he is acting like a teen (they all seem to regress into that stage!)
You H is exhibiting the cookie cutter wayward behaviour and you are still trying to make sense of it all.
I wish there was a quick way for you to kick him out.
Can you change the locks when he comes back from the camping trip and have him find a suitcase with his bare necessities on the doorstep?
blessing
I'm not tryig to ratioalize what he did, I'm just saying it is a shame to have it all and throw it away for nothing. There is no way you can rationalize what he did. He did what he did for selfish reasons and now has to live with what he has done for the rest of his life. Luckily, I don't. I know him better than he knows himself especially since he has opened up completely in the last 6 months. The guilt will eat him up and he will continue to spiral down in the bottom of a bottle. He will eventually be alone, even his buddies will eventually avoid. I guess that will be karma paying him back. I know that he is hurting right now and that in turn makes him mad, but that is something he has to live with. I care but don't care at the same time. I know that he thought if we could be friends and I continued to be his best friend then his guilt would be alleviated and he could still keep me in a way. But I showed him that was not to be. As I told him 6 months ago, it is all or nothing.
Still hoping and praying.
There might be nice guys out there...however, I just went to get my bike repaired and the bike guy has been after me for a while. He is married and knows I am separated.
He would just love to get me in the sack and he was pretty clear about it this afternoon.
Then I went to the grocery store and this guy who was all buffed up and was wearing a wedding ring started flirting with me, I did not give him much credit and went on my way
Hello, hello, hello, is there anybody in there (pink floyd)who does not cheat or does not think about it?
What planet am I from? I slept with 2 guys in my whole live, I am 44.
I spoke to a High school girlfriend the other day, she is my age and she slept with 30 men. She said it is pretty average, and yes some where married.
Wow.
blessing
My Mom was a looker, very social, still goes aut dancing and is pretty healthy for 83. She was engaged to a guy when she was i7 but times were to tough for her family cuz her Mom died and she took over her role. Then at 30 she met my father and married to quickly but made the best of it.
The only Man she ever slept with was my Dad, even though she too was constantly propositioned to before, during, and after her marriage.
Sex is wonderful in its right place, but it has its place. People don't belieive in self control so they try to change the rules about it and they even make relationships all about it instead of just a part of them.
As i was writing this two cats were going at it at my house. They are both fixed and well taken care of, got thier shots, eat the right food, etc. The Male is the offspring of the female, go figure. Are people acting like animals? Methinks they would rather not think at all and are willing to use anybody for that ten minutes of physical pleasure and try to reason away how theres more to it than the act.
Granted there is birth control, abortions, and the opinion that sex can be had with no negative consequences having to be bore by the participants. Most consider it a right and call it "adult" activity.
You have to use your brain cells to understand thier are consequences to not controlling your natural human urges, Just like its important to control them when someone cuts you off on the thruway when they are afraid of being chewed out by the boss for being late at work and aren't controlling thiers.
In the end we will have to live with our consequences of our decisions as deep as we are willing to admit they exist, and the bulk of the world wants to get thier share at the expense of others. Take pride that its lonly at the top.
Oh yeah, having sex when you are ready to have a child when you are married, or just to enjoy and be close to one you love, is very healthy and normal in my opinion, but it is not the means to build a relationship. its the reward. But thats my opinion, some people require it, but to me it takes all the freedom out of it, which makes it a law that means people can find a way around keeping it, and it becomes a form of bondage.
Your doin great Traci IMO. I wish you could get him away from you somehow so he might change but it seems its impossible for you to go into a plan B.
Your anger is understandable but is it possible for him to straigthen out? Is it possible for him win you back? I don't see him changing unless you can get him away from you and this is tearing you up.
CP, I am not angry, just tired, disappointed, and at this point I don't care any more. Is it possible that he can win me back? I don't know, it depends on what he does and if I think he is sincere.
Still hoping and praying.
Traci -- You are coping well. I totally understand since my circumstances are similar. But in my situation, WH made one final decision, chose the OW, and walked out of our lives. And he turned on the "angry" faucet -- so any contact is a battle with him blaming ME for spending money unnecessarily on attorney fees and for not having a full time job and for turning the world against him.
Go figure.
And I too say "what a waste" of a 30 year relationship and a wonderful life. He had it made -- a wife who would do anything for him, kids who adored him (which is pretty hard with teenagers these days), a great job, no debt, family support -- THE LIFE.
But it wasn't good enough for Mr. I Want To Be A Rockstar. Actually, that was one of his favorite songs. He really did want the keys to the Playboy mansion. Guess that's the fantasy for a 48 year old midlife crisis guy.
And like you, I really was a great wife. He agreed wholeheartedly. But he chose Bimbo.
I questioned what was wrong with me for a long time. She's been around the block which I hadn't. WH and I grew up together. We were wild and crazy together. Now he wants to go back in time without me? Not fair!!
This just shows you that what you are going through -- how you feel -- I'm doing the exact same darn thing.
Him leaving took off a lot of the pressure -- I realize that now. I didn't have to try to talk with him -- or do for him -- especially knowing that Bimbo was doing all under her power to take him away and convince him he was entitled to be happy. We're entitled to be happy too. That means YOU, Traci.
Step away from the drama. Look at your situation from the outside looking in -- which is hard -- because this is one of those situations where it's hard not to take it personally. Because it IS personal. You just have to act like it's not.
You did a valiant job trying to convince him that he's on a bad path. He's headed for a cliff. He doesn't see it... probably won't until he falls off.
I still hope and pray, too. Let God handle it. He's quite capable of performing miracles. Have you read the book "The Shack"? Interesting reading when you are going through what we are right now. I learned to pray to the Holy Spirit more.
Sorry for the ramble and I apologize if I talked too much about me or repeated stuff I said to you before. I just wish our Hs would wake up and see what catches we are -- have always been. How we got them to where they are today. Well, not today -- the drama, the anger, the self-destruction -- that was caused by their involvement with OW. Really -- An A is the stupidest thing they could have ever done to someone like us. And guess what? We can't fix this one unless they WANT to fix it.
I DO hope karma hits them some day. Not necessarily for revenge -- but to make them a better person. So they realize there were real consequences for what THEY chose to do to their family. That this wasn't just part of life. This wasn't unavoidable. That THEY willfully and thoughtfully and purposefully CHOOSE to destroy us.
And if your WH is sulking around and making you feel miserable, he needs to leave. He should be kissing your feet for letting him stay right now and for continuing to offer your love and support and forgiveness. Instead he's feeling sorry for HIMSELF for missing OW. PLEAZZZZZE. You don't need to deal with THAT everyday.
Stay strong, girlie!!
Thanks,HH,for all your support. And no you don't ramble, everything you said makes sense.
H left around 12:30 today to go camping and he took avery large bottle of rum that he bought last night. Looks like he is going to hide in a bottle again. He is so stupid, the only person he is hurting is himself.
H keeps telling me he has no contact with OW in over 6 months even when I tell him that since he is leaving me he might as well tell me the truth. He says that he has no plans to be with her or give her any power over him. He gets mad when I tell him that I don't believe him and Bunderstands that and he wouldn't believe him either. But that he isn't having any contact with her. It doesn't matter any more. Even if he is seeing her it won't last.
I am gooing to continue with my life without him and continue going out with my friends. I am going to continue ignoring him the best that I can. If nothing else, it ticks him off.
Been figuring up my budget for the rest of the year and I'll be just fine. As a matter of fact if things go as I plan I will be able to save a nice chunk of money.
Still hoping and praying.
Hey, HH, you should read my journal. It is actually one very large ramble. I just ramble on everyday to my H in it and there is no rhyme or reason to it. Lol.
Had a great day at work and even got to go home early because the census went down a little. I feel great.
H is still not back yet from his trip to the river. H left yesterday with a large bottle of rum. Which means he got s--t faced last night. He is probably floating down the river today and getting drunk again. He isn't very smart. You can't hide from what you have done or run from it because it is always there and you have to face it sooner or later. But this is H problem not mine. I'm doing fine, he isn't.
Still hoping and praying.
Well, I was right, H never came home last night. Don't care any more. I know he did it to hurt me or to make me mad. He didn't succeed.
Still hoping and praying.
His pain has nothing to do with you. It is his journey. He is obviously going thru a lot of pain and there is a plan out there for him. Hopefully he will learn from it.
DO not take what he does personally. He has a serious drinking problem and you are ok living with him so you are also in need of help.
I do not want to be harsh or critical of you. But look at your situation,IMO, you can no longer go on this way.
blessing
This is for you not him. Have you checked any meetings out. You are living with an alcoholic and you cannot save him -- only yourself while he is going through this addiction to both the booze and OW.
Please you all, Phoenix, IMO , needs to be told to kick her WH out of the house.
How can she live in those conditions. Can't you see how much she obsesses about him? She can't plan B him nor plan A him-
She can only suffer like a dog.
It is time she puts a stop to this. If he has no place to go...well once has to live with the consequences of his actions. I am sure he can afford a youth hostel or a very cheap motel, or rent a room
blessing
I am D from my WH. He has not lived in our house since 10/08. I have been attending Alanon regularly since then.
The program is for me not for him. It affects the whole family and it helps me deal with my family in helping them.
I agree that WH needs to get out. He can go to a treatment center, he could move in with a friend or rent a room.
As long as Traci allows him to stay there; no changes will happen. She is not doing either of them any favors.
You cannot be in Plan B while being in the same house.
12 step programs are wonderful spiritual paths. They are hard and I have never had the courage to do the 12 steps.
IMO all of us regardless of our addictions should go thru the 12 steps. But look who is talking, me, who does not even have the couraga to approach it.
blessing
Ok everyone. I know you mean well but if I could kick him out he would be gone. But legally, he is on the house and I cannot make him leave. I see very little of him as it is. And I do this on purpose.
H's road to alcoholism is his own fault not mine and I can't help it if he is handling his problems and guilt through alcohol. At this point I am doing fine. I just don't care at this point. Let him destroy himself. He deserves it. I hope that doesn't sound too itchy.
But you do care, of course you do. ANd saying those things are only an attack against yourself and your integrity. He has none left and your resentment towards him are going to turn you into an angry person. He does not deserve to see your good qualities clouded by the results of his actions.
Your situation is difficult, I agree, but you could move out then. Could you?
Blessing
No I cannot move out. I pay for the house. I can't make a house payment and pay rent on another place. If I could I would have left already. Right now I am indifferent to him and his situation which is actually worse than being mad.
If I can you can. I am paying rent and a mortgage so I do not have to dwell in the same building as OW, imagine if I would dwell with my WH knowing he is killing himself with booze and seeing OW or at least thinkig about her..
Money can buy you some peace.
blessing
There is now way I can pay for 2 places. I live in Panama City,Fl and the rent here for a decent place is high. My house payments with everything else I pay for doesn't leave me much. I am not going to work 60 plus hours a week any more. Once I get the money for my divorce and get my divorce he will have to leave. Just give me a couple of months and I will be divorced and ok.
ok, 2 months are goingt to go by fast. So he does not contribute to the mortgage.
Mammamia....you will be glad when he is out of your life.
And he has diabetes and drinks, does he understand the consequences? Is he on insuline? How does he control his blood sugar when he drinks like a sponge. He is trying to kill himself
blessing
It seems traci,(phoenix), has no choice but to get a D to get WH/Alc away from her, and it doesn't seem she has anything left for hope of him changing.
I want to point out that she shows signs of co-dependance herself. No Sin, those of us who have been there realize how the trap is set, the good intentions, the pulling it together to protect who we percieve as innocent victims, in other words, the excuses we allow them to have in the name of love.
I can only speak from my experiance in this, my former wife was an alcoholic, and I left her for 2 years becuse she wore me out, I hadn't planned on returning, but the need to be there for my children along with the partial recovery,(she stopped drinking for a year and started back to church), caused me to reconsider and return.
She never addmitted she had a drinking problem and never went to AA or any realistic counseling about her drinking or the reasons she drank, so eventually she relapsed even worse.
If it wasn't for the children, then DD6 and DS2, I would never had returned, I don't regret it for those reasons. but it took a lot out of me and I still am getting over it. Without small children to protect, I don't think Phoenix should be with WH until he is full blown into a program and on his knees before God, both, and that on top of working the MB plan.
You should go to Alanon Traci, it will take a long time to put the alcoholic H you know behind you. That part of him is destructiveand only keeps you angry and confused. There is no reason for his actions. Excuses are reasons stuffed with a lie and you need to heal from the damage he has done to you. It makes no difference that its called a desease and they say he is sick, this is a sickness he has chosen out of selfishness, maybe he can't see it, but thats his problem. Your issue is to see where out of love towards him, you have enabled it. Yes out of caring, commpasiion, longsuffering, faith,sacrifice, all the things we do for those weaker than us because thats what love is to the brave and loyal, but its wasted on the selfish, let God handle him. I assure you he will do a good job.
I am still processing the difference between the woman I fell in love with, the family we were trying to build, the dedicaion we had to each other. the time way back when when sacrifice would bring about a future we would share in our old age and the sickness that took that woman away from our family that was based in her own fear and turning to denial and drugs, (alcohol being the door).
I am a fair man, I must give credit where credit is due. She was not allways that unstable, she once was a very special Lady and letting her go has allways been hard because I saw the person she wanted to be and the dreams she had, the character she once possessed and the pain she had endured at the hands of others that she had put in her past. She has never belonged to me, she has allways been Gods, I was just to be her freind and live right with her in this world.
It was the temptation to blame others for her emotional problems and her making excuses for her addictive behavior that gave her the right in her opinion to abuse herself, her family, and the gift life is.
The alcohol is just a manifestation of a deeper problem. Alanon can help you see that, make peace with it and give you the tools to forgive him without allowing him to continue to infect your life with his sickness. MB can help you repair your marriage if you want to after that. Right now he finds peace in his bottle instead of his relationship with God and you. He needs those things Traci, he might not know it, but thats for him to figure out.
IF, you decide later after he stops drinking to take him back when he shows some ability to act responsibly and makes an effort to reconcile the marriage I strongly recommend you find out and address theunderlying issues that has brought him to this state of mind and living in the first place. I don't want to see a relapse into something bad for you or your family/life. Find out what he needs to do for you and make him do it with no excuse. You deserve that.
Make no mistake we take time to forgive, its a long process and even tougher when its someone we saw such good things in, and who has loved us in the past. Its not all on our shoulders though, it takes two to build a marriage, and only one to tear it apart. The pain goes deep, the betrayal affects us more than anything else that anyone can do.
But that is when God steps in and heals us, makes us whole again, and removes the poison of bitterness through forgivness in time, decently and in order.
Thank you for the beautiful post CS!
Blessing
Don't I know it. He doesn't check blood sugar anymore. He went off all medication when he lost about 50# last year. The last time he checked his blood sugar was months ago when I bugged him about it. And yes, it does look like he is trying to kill himself. Trying to drown yourself in a bottle to forget and to blunt the pain is going to kill him. I can't help it if he thinks about me all the time. I know he does because he did last time and I know him.
It is very hard to see someone you love just destroy himself. YOu know he is going to suffer a lot for what he has chosen, no matter how wonderful his life in the A might appear now.
I have to say that I saw glipses of a wonderful person in my WH. He truly is a remarkable man. He just does not see it or know it and his behaviour now might bring him to the point where he has to face himself. I hope so because I will always love him,but can't allow the poison of his behaviour to continue to pollute my life.
blessing
I can't help it if he thinks about me all the time. I know he does because he did last time and I know him.
In which way does he think about you all the time?
blessing
H didn't use to drink. He didn't start until he left me last year and when he came back he quit. He started drinking about once a week back in March and this drinking like this started 2 weeks ago. I'm not making excuses for him, he did this to himself. It was he decision to do this, his choice,like his adultery. No excuses.
He is in a mess, really. He has no feelings left. Maybe he will hit bottom soon. I wish that on him because only then he will be willing to work on something constructive for his life.
blessing
Thank you for the beautiful post CS!
Blessing
Right back at ya
CS great post.
Traci, have you ever attended an Alanon meeting? It is not to save your spouse but yourself. I know you are thinking if i divorce him why would I need to go since you don't have the problem. BUT this is a family disease. It is a safe place for you.
You are caught up in the daily drama as long as he is in that house. You are the caretaker for him and it is not healthy for you. I know you do not see it this way but you are enabling him to continue drinking as long as he is living there.
take care.
For some reason, and maybe I'm missing it, but every time someone has brought up the word AlAnon, traci/phoenix has ducked the question. Alanon is not AA, it's for the family members of alcoholics. Is there something holding you back? Do you not want to admit your WH is an alcoholic? Just curious....
I am not ducking the question about AlAnon. I'm just not going to go. I don't feel like it and that is my right. I know all about the program and all about AA. I could really care less if my H becomes an alcoholic, which he is fast becoming. He deserves it after what he has done to me. I am just going to leave him alone in his own personal H--l that he has created.
I am still seeing an IC and will continue that.
Isn't AlAnon about family and dependant recovery/survival? If I am right, PR, this will help YOU.
Did he make it home from the camp out? Maybe he had an epiphany out in the woods. Maybe a bear ate him. Perhaps he found Jesus.
Maybe a bear found Jesus and ate your WH,
Sorry , couldn't help it.
Does your IC think co-dependance counseling like AL-anon does would be helpful to you?
Aren't you angry at yourself for accepting his behavior for so long? Or do you feel like you are completly healed now just getting him to leave when your divorced?
I think you are a strong woman, and no doubt you will survive while moving forward. I am just looking out for you and your future, as a brother in Christ. What does the Old boyfriend think or his wife?
Talk to your IC about this and I hope they are a good fit for you.
A word to the wise is sufficient
yeah Alanon is what used to be called. "Children and family of alcoholics anonymous" Its for the people who have lived and loved alcoholics.
I know you don't enable him to drink traci, but the rest of his behavior smells like you have been his Mommy for a long time.
Many alcoholics are told to get away from co-dependant relationships, you fit the bill of this type.
Before you hand me my head, so do I. I am half dead doing for others and quite accomplished but there is a line that we cross in personal relationships with certain kinds of people. This does not help them or is it a balanced way for us to live.
Thats as far as I go with the explaination, talk to your IC or live in denial. God be with you.
Did he make it home from the camp out? Maybe he had an epiphany out in the woods. Maybe a bear ate him. Perhaps he found Jesus.
I was going to laugh,
but then I thought you may be serious...
soooo..
What is your IC suggest about your situation at home
Still avoiding H. He's staying around home more often. He still goes out but is home by 8PM. Wonder if going out all the time is wearing thin. Not sure if he has even been drinking the last 3 days. This is weird. Maybe things are starting to sink in, but I doubt it. I wouldn't hold my breath because I would turn blue in the face and pass out.
Traci, have you filed for D or legal separation yet?
You need to get him out of the house.
Yes, PR, do not fall into his little traps again. He is gone..big time. File for D and get your life back
Blessing
Yes, PR, do not fall into his little traps again. He is gone..big time. File for D and get your life back
Blessing
I think that it is so obviuos to PR that her husband is sick, that even though she has allways been the more responsible partner that she knows she can't do it anymore.
What i am worring about here, and it wouldn't be the first time I have ever seen it, is her accepting him back into the marriage when he is only half-healed.
This has been an issue that I have brought up from the beginning. PR is a strong independant caregiver type. Willing to do everything for everybody and very sacrificial. What I pointed out then and am now is that it is one-sided and not a balanced relationship where both are equally taking responsibility for themselves.
Its easy to see someone fall and point out the faults in how they act. Its hard to see how you might have set them up for it by years of, "Oh well, He/She is just like that, I guess I will cover them again and wish the best"
Now she has come to the place where she can no longer be the Mommy and He has crossed the line hurting her where there is nothing she can do to deny it,or fix it, or control it, and she doesn't see the co-dependantcy she has in herself.
It doesn't matter if she repairs this one or not, any relationships where she does more than her share, where she loves them so much that she is willing to overlook the possibility of growth by making them do what they are supposed to do, is unfair to her.
Co-dependancy is the nice way to be controlling because you think you don't deserve someone who has self respect and shows you love from that viewpoint. This is part of the problem here. She deserves better, and its not up to her to fix him, make him see, or parent him, or anybody else for that matter.
Co-dependantcy can sneak up on us. It feels right, we sacrifice for whom we love and take up the cross when we think they are weak in an area. It also is a sign that the person needs help if they don't realize that they are making poor choices. We rob them from the process they must go through to grow if we don't call them on it and we think we are just doing the best for them in the name of love. Thats how we lose the reality that we are lucky to have each other, by losing the reality of personal accoutability and the consequences that come from bad decsions.
As time goes on we take on more, and get stronger for it, and we are drained, but we muster on, untill we are trying to handle it all and are all alone in a relationship that was supposed to be two caring for each other equally but has become one who is bearing most of the burden, while we wait for the other to get right and see the light.
I think Traci is an awesome woman, and this is a story I have seen time and again when women,(mostly), try to do it all, and take away the mans need to screw up and deal with the consequences.
Unless this guy was allways a child, (then there are more deeper questions Traci has to ask herself like "why do I go for the wounded puppys"), then whatever happened to him can be blamed somewhat on how she "loved him too much" and didn't expect him to love her, untill she deserved it, and taught him how. Don't think that this can't happen, it happens all the time, especially with children from mothers who wont let them go.
Think of the song, "Mother", by Pink Floyd. Eventually the best gift is the expectation we give when we stop protecting our children and let God take over. I think thats what God wants, and I trust he is able more than I to guide them anyway. This IMO is the highest form of respect for someone, to find them worthy of Gods attention and expecting them to live thier life before Him.
She deserves better, and to understand how it got this way, and to balance her relationships, even if they are not romantic but especially if the are a trusted friend for life.
Doing fine today. Going out with friends. When H found out I was going out he wanted to know who I was going with. Told him it was none of his business. That was not what he was expecting.
H told me to call one of the girls to bring me home if I drank too much and I just ignored him. Don't plan on drinking and driving. Don't plan on drinking anyway when I go out.
I am so tired of everything but leaving it in God's hands. Constantly praying to him and asking for guidance. I find comfort in the Lord. He has been with me all the way and will be with me til the end.
My best friend from high school emailed me on Tuesday and let me know that her mom died Monday. I had to call my Mom and let her know that one of her best friends had died. The reason my Mom didn't know was because they had moved to Tennessee a couple of years ago. She knew her friend had cancer and was keeping up with her but hadn't been told she had died. My Mom is very upset because she has lost 2 friends in the past 2 1/2 years to cancer. My friend's mom was only 63yrs old. This scares me because my Mom is only 69yrs old and was recently diagnosed with early dementia. I realize that my Mom comes first right now in my life because one day she might not even remember me one day because it is hard with what is going on in my life right now.
Still hoping and praying.
I need everyone to pray for me right now. I am having a very hard day. I have been crying and praying for over a couple of hours now. I don't know what to do. I have been doing ok up until now. I think I have finally met my breaking point. I know God is there for me but I am hurting right now. I know I will survive but it sure is hard.
Still hoping and praying.
your in my prayers, hang in there, keep yourself busy, little things, minute by minute........
Praying for you now phoenix, He will care for you
Just want to thank everyone here for all your wonderful advice and for just being here and being so supportive. Things are difficult at the moment and I don't know what to do except keep praying and going to IC.
I have decided to leave the MB web site for a while and take care of me. I will check in every once in a while to see how everyone is doing but right now I am no good to anyone until I get myself doing better. I am not even qualified to give anyone else advice either.
Still hoping and praying and always will.
Keep checking in while you heal, live, and learn Phoenix. I am sure you qualify to care if you have experienced some pain that you can relate with.
BSs need support.
God will take care of you as he allways has I am sure, Maybe even more.
God Bless
Traci, I find that when it gets tough, this is the best place to be. You will receive support here when most others don't understand.
Praying for you and your family. Remember to take care of yourself first. As long as you allow your H to co-exist with you there will be no changes. Everyone here wants their M restored but want a great marriage not what we are willing to put up with.
Blessings.
I agree with Hope. No one else understands like we do, so hang around.
Also praying for you.
Traci
I truly understand the darkness and the pain that we walk through. I lived it for so long and just like you I kept on trudging and walking in FAITH and TRUST with my G-d. Just like you are.
I also came to wonder if it wasn't those darkest times and the deepest struggles that G-d was most able to work inside of me because my defenses were down and I was OPEN to receiving his love and will in my life.
You are so amazing. Your walk in FAITH and TRUST is inspiring and if you need to take a break from here. Do it, but also know that it was the very same times that I needed this place not to post for anyone else but ME. To put my thoughts, my struggles my tears down and just know that people understood.
And I wasn't so alone. The pain you are going through is so very real. And even though you know you can walk through it, it's tiring. I learned that sharingthe pain diffused it because then people prayed for me and it somehow got easier.
Be gentle with yourself. Here is my email if you want to contact me... mvlaxmom@yahoo.com.
We love you.
Great post Queenie, Many things that I wanted to say are mirrored.
You are not alone Traci, and many people have felt called by God to handle more than their share in this life all by themselves, trying to protect the ones we love. Its a noble and righteous calling.
When they don't see it, and they betray you childlessly, you start to feel its your fault as you give more than God intended you to. Thats when it gets imbalanced, and He wants to take the burden away and handle it.
But we didn't fail, we want you to see that. Not to fellowship with a percieved failure, but instead with His provision of mercy and power of justice that only He weilds.
So you can be restored to a place where God is in charge again and inside you know it, so you can have peace and expect the best. It is not all up to you, just your part is, and you handled it well as you could at the time, but now you know your limits.
You truly can let go and let God.
I am doing that more every day
Hello everyone, I am back after being gone for a couple of months trying to get myself together. The reason I left here to begin with was because MB was starting to depress me. There was a lot of negativity with some people.
I have been doing a lot of praying and soul searching these past couple of months. I feel a lot better. It has been hard. I have cried and cried to God and asked Him "Why?". I have received my answers and now I feel better. My therapist says that my faith is the reason I have been doing so well.
My H is still sleeping in DD20's room. He says he is moving out this month but I'll believe it when I see it. Most everyone says he still loves me but that he has to hit bottom first to realize this. DD22 thinks that we can make it and she is one that wanted us to get divorced years ago and now she has changed her mind. That says a lot when that comes from her.
Hi Tracie, thanks for checking in. I wondered what happened to you.
Faith in God and turning it to Him will give you peace. Happy you are finding answers. Blessings.
Izitrog,
your comments, not only to this poster but to several others you decided to put your 2 cents into, are unclear but offensive.
This is MB, please read the introduction and the literature to this site before you post.
Thank you
Blessing
I agree with atena. Did you REALLY read the WHOLE thread izitrong? How old are you really? AH, NM, I don't want to argue with a fool, makes me one too.
Traci I am not surprised you are still hangin in there gurl, you don't quit anything do you? I assume you know where the ignore button is for people right?
So how is H doing with his depression? Has he started to feel any selfworth yet? Does he go to an IC? He needs outside support besides you, but you know that. Maybe he needs to find a different IC, one that he picks, trusts and respects his values. How is his spirtiual growth? Is his God still a taskmaster to him?, or does he empower him as he realizes his blessings?
As I said before, he is blessed by you, but he must see it himself. Its not your job to remind him, even if you do it for his own good. Then he can be the man you know he is inside for you. As you know its a choice and it comes from within ourselves. That was probably something you allready are waiting for to happen in him and I commend your faith in God as you wait.
I am glad that you yourself are doing better. I pray that H will soon stop running and trust God to help him, and that he sees how much he is loved, without condemnation for his weakness as a human being.
Show me a man who has never made any mistakes, and Ill show you one who has never learned anything. We never stop learning about the grace of God either. He is allways waiting for us.
I am doing fine but H has bouts of depression and he talks to me a lot when this happens. He finally admitted that the past 18 months has been all his fault and that he lost his job because of his poor decisions. He even mentioned that he would probably be better off if he was dead when I mentioned that I was worried about his health. He did mention that he was not suicidal and what would he be like if he wasn't on antidepressants. He even mentioned that he had friends but not any that he could talk to and that they were just drinking buddies. Not long after this H got a raise at work and a new position and this alleviated his depression. The thing is, is that this won't last long. Right now I worry about me and take care of me only. I leave my H alone and just keep my lips zipped.
H told me last night that he has found a place to live and is leaving Friday. He told me he loved me as a person and that I am his best friend. He wanted to know about us. I told him the same thing I told him before,"all or nothing" and I mean it. Guess I'll be back in Plan B again. I cannot be around him and not hurt and I am tired of hurting. So on Oct 22, 2010 I will be single again. If he wants a divorce then he will have to file and pay for it. H said I can have everything.
I am sorry to hear this PR but it is better this way than having him around the house like a zombie.
I know that if I had not kicked out my WH soon enough he too would have found a place and left
As far as you know he is not seeing OW, right? But I think he might be still thinking of her or seeing her...who cares now. Now you are in plan B.
Why did you H ask you about us? What does he want from you? Frienship...?
You did the right thing. YOu are better off without him, I have followed your thread and it was a death of a 1,000 cuts for you.
You deserve some peace and your personal R.
blessing
So what will give him comfort now? Is he still drinking or will he seek counsel from a professional instead?
Your faith has kept you and will continue to traci. Time to celibrate life and the people who love us.
Peace to you.
My H is an idiot but that is okay. He will eventually learn what he has lost and I don't mean money. He is going to learn this time that he has definitely lost his family because he has no one to lean on except his drinking buddies and he has already learned that he has no one but me. He told me this weeks ago. Our daughters really have nothing to do with him unless he gets hold of him or they are with me. He tries to get them to go out with him and they always come up with an excuse not to mainly because they think he is too old to go out to the bars or clubs. I know that his life is empty and and meaningless, he will eventually realize this. I am not worried about anything. God will take care of me and everything else.
Still hoping and praying.
Hi PR, good to see you checking in.
Your WH has to fall from grace on his own, and he will fall hard. Only when he reaches bottom will he have to pull himself up. He has to realize what we all know...he is to blame totally. There will be no one else left to point his finger at.
Your daughters are smart women, if they decide to see him hopefully it will be over a cup of coffee. Last place he needs to be is in a bar with his daughters.
I have followed your story and i know it is not an easy path. I hope you find peace. Blessings.
H left me again Oct 22. He found an apartment. It is a 2 bedroom apartment that is income based. I heard that the apartments are nice. The only problem I have is is that my DD 20 has moved in with him. My H and DD 20 kept it from me. I found out she was moving out and in with him the day she did it. Boy, did that hurt. Did find out that my H told her not to tell me. When I talked to her this past Friday night I found out about everything and told her that she and I have always had a close relationship. I told her that she had always told me everything why not this? I told her that by sneaking around behind my back and lying to me was being like her father. She promised me she wouldn't do that again. I am not worried about her. I know that she will move back home.
Even though H has moved out I know that he will come back again. Just about everyone says they are glad he left and that he won't even come back. There are several who say just to watch and wait because he will be back. My DD22 says he won't come back this time. I said why do you say that especially since you told me a couple of weeks ago that you thought your Dad and I could make it. She told me because he had his own place. I told her he had his own place with the OW before. She said this time it was in his name. I told DD22 that she had to have faith. I have faith and I know that my H will return.
Still hoping and praying.
I know how you feel, Phoenix. I'm sure you said it all to him -- but he won't listen. He's like a kid running away from home. And each time, he runs a little further down the road. He KNOWS you will let him back when he's ready.
I did it, too. Five times he moved back and forth. But never to his own place. Always to OWs.
Maybe him in his own place is a good thing for him to come to grips with this midlife crisis he going through. A friend shared that her BIL got his own place when he was depressed and unsure that he wanted to stay married. Don't know if there was an OW. He and his wife started "dating." Yep. Meeting for dinner or a movie. Watching TV at his apartment. Soon a weekend trip out of town. She would stay sometimes at his place. My friend says this went on about 6 months. Her sister bragged that it was the best sex they'd had in many years.
Then he proposed all over to her. Said "yes" he was ready to stay married. He just needed some time alone to sort out his life. He WANTED to be married to her.
I'm not saying him being away is a good thing -- but maybe -- just maybe -- and since your DD is there, OW may never be there -- that this might be the kick in the pants he needs to grow up.
Good luck!!!
Thanks HH, I needed someone to give me a positive instead of a negative. That is all I seem to hear these days is the negative. I know that even though his rent is only around $650 a month he has to pay electric, cable and groceries. DD20 cannot afford to give him anything so she will be a strain on him financially. H still has credit card bills to pay and he owes money to friends that he had to borrow to pay his deposits on everything. I pray all the time for him to see the light and for God to make it difficult for him. Thanks again HH.
Still hoping and praying.
Hi Phoenix, looks like you got a trick instead of treat this Halloween.
This is the time you need to go dark dark dark. He needs to fall from grace without you standing in the background to either pick him up or say I told you so.
Hoping and praying is important but you need to pray for your own family and yourself. Need your OWN plan not attached to what he is doing.
You need to stop talking to your DD about him. Need to keep away from him. If he comes over you need to leave the house. Whatever it takes. They always look for the crutch that will prop them back up. Don't be there. Until he hits bottom he will be poison to you.
I will pray for you. I do believe in the power of prayer. My prayers have changed for my own situation. I ask God to turn XH's face towards Him again. Once that happens only then will they change their wayward behavior.
Blessings.
Many men don't "get it" until it affects them financially. I used to hear the phrases "it's cheaper to keep her" and "you can't afford not to love her." Now my WH is the biggest offender of them all and I know he's wheeling and dealing moving money from one account to another just to keep up this juggling act. It'll all come out sooner or later and it won't be pretty.
Eventually, the balls drop. If your WH has to strain every month to pay his bills, he'll figure it out. Just don't give DD any money. If her goal is to help you, maybe she can purposely spend a little more each month just to add to the pressure. ("Did I leave that light on all night, Dad? Oops, sorry.") Let her be the little woman for a while. Let them figure out the cooking and the cleaning and the bills.
As hard as this is, try to look at it as a well deserved vacation from being a wife AND mother. Let WH parent for the time being.
Just protect yourself financially, Phoenix. I seem to recall that you basically control the money in your household -- so that's good. Just take whatever you can -- even hide what you can -- so the two of them have to work at staying in that apartment.
And don't be too angry at your DD. At least she can keep an eye on WH. Maybe her being there will keep OW from popping by. Funny how these younger OW think they can run all over us but are way more intimidated when our DDs are around. And if your DD has a mouth on her, all the better. Let her defend your family for a while since you are on vacation.
Don't worry everyone. I am not going to help my H financially. I am not going to help my DD20 either my H will have to help her since she lives with him and I told him so. I am leaving him to his own devices. I do know one thing though and that he is not seeing the OW anymore she has been spending time with her XH. OW XH still loves her and wants her back and is trying to get back with her.
I want everyone to know that I not only pray for my H but for myself as well. It is because of my strong faith that I am doing so well now. I do pray that God has my H hit rock bottom. Once he hits rock bottom I think reality will finally set in. Until then I will live my life as I see fit.
Still hoping and praying.
Glad you checked in. I understand how you felt when DD20 went to live with him, but from what I know of you and how well you must have taught them, I also feel there is something wholesome with it too.
What was said above about OW meeting DDs is true too. The OW will have a hard time being comfortable around her.
Maybe this is a chance for him to really do some thinking and not have any excuses for his drinking/depression, and a chance to live up to being a Dad for his DD. Maybe he will seek help and counsel from God thru his people. We know all good things come from Him, and in that you can be thankful too if he gets better.
There will probably be challanges there, I hope they work towards good for all of you. I agree that you should stay dark and let him make his own free will decisions without it affecting you anymore. Meditate on the word and get some peace, you deserve it and we all can use it.
God Bless Phoenix
I don't have any contact with my H. I stay in contact with my DD20 because I know she will eventually come back home. Plus, she is my daughter and I love her and moving into a new place is something different. Once the novelty wears off she'll be back. Not worried about my H either. He is going to have to struggle to take care of himself and our daughter.
I am doing fine right now. I am picking up more hours at work and have cut back on bills so I have more money in my pocket. I am going back on a diet to lose the weight that I gained on Lexapro last year and I am going to go back to the gym. I can't wait. I feel good about my future.
Still hoping and praying.
Wowwie.
Pray, yes. But what is your new plan?
I know you got one in there somewhere....
Today is my H's 48th birthday. He was a butt so I told him not to worry about me contacting him and for him to not call or text me. Told him that I would sign the divorce papers when he got them filled out. He will get what he wants now. So Happy Birthday to him! I will do just fine but not him and he will realize this a lot sooner than he thinks.
I've decided to call it quits, but he has to file for divorce, I'm not. He made that decision for me today. I'm tired of everything. I will continue on with my life without him. I have no choice. I still love him but it does me no good. I am through and I WILL survive.
Maybe at this point you should file. He is one of the biggest bunz draggin' cake eater on this site.
You have to stand up for yourself. Have you at least talked recently to an attorney? Do you know what the divorce is going to cost you?
The cost you are paying in misery now is very high.
I am not going to spend the money on a divorce. He wants it he will have to pay for it. The cost now for a simple dissolution of marriage in Florida is $300. I want him to come up with the money. I am not providing him with anything. He is going to suffer on his own.
DD22 let her dad know last night that he hurt me and let him have it. H text me this morning to apologize for hurting me yesterday. I told him to go away. He said ok.
I did tell H yesterday that I would sign the divorce papers when he was ready to file. I am through!
He wont file, he's too scared to, he wants to party have fun sleep with other woman and when he's all done he'll try to come back to you.
So YOU will need to file because he wont he is having a time of his life he has a wife that doesn't care what he does, and a girlfriend that wont pressure him to marriage because he's already married!
Don't you get it? You will have to file otherwise you will always be married to this man and won't be able to find someone else.
He doesn't have a girlfriend any more. He lives with our youngest daughter and he would never bring anyone around her. His new affair is with his buddies, cigarettes and alcohol.
I don't want a new person in my life. It is too much trouble, I would rather just have my family and friends than a man. I can do what I want, when I want and answer to no one. I have plans to go on cruises and trips. I do have a passport and I plan on using it.
Amazing. you are still are creating reasons.
You are 45 years old. You have a huge life ahead of you.
No, he currently does not have a gf... only because he has not begged her back yet.
$300.. seriously? What is your freedom/sanity worth? Do you value yourself that little?
So you are planning on keeping strings to the guy forever? Until he puts you to the curb? MB is not an marriage at all cost place.
I am not creating reasons, I just don't care anymore. I will probably start the divorce proceedings next year. Right now I'm going to do what I want and not what others want because I have to live with what I do.
As for him having a gf, I don't care anymore. He'll just screw it up too. I on the other hand don't want anyone else in my life and that is my choice. If that is what I want and it makes me happy then so be it.
I also have beliefs and I believe that marriage is forever. I did reconcile with my H and forgave him so now I can never get married again when I get divorced. Those are my beliefs and I expect others to respect my beliefs as I respect theirs.
I am not creating reasons, I just don't care anymore. I will probably start the divorce proceedings next year. Right now I'm going to do what I want and not what others want because I have to live with what I do.
As for him having a gf, I don't care anymore. He'll just screw it up too. I on the other hand don't want anyone else in my life and that is my choice. If that is what I want and it makes me happy then so be it.
I also have beliefs and I believe that marriage is forever. I did reconcile with my H and forgave him so now I can never get married again when I get divorced. Those are my beliefs and I expect others to respect my beliefs as I respect theirs.
What ever makes you happy girl
Phoenix, it is well within your rights to do what you believe is right. No one here is telling you that what you believe is wrong. They are sincerely trying to help YOU.
My helpful advice to you is that I wish you would go into Plan B. Not for marital recovery, and not to end an affair. I would love you to gain the peace from it. Do a truly dark Plan B. You know that peace you will get.
I wish you great happiness and joy.
Hi there,
I think you should just find your peace however you choose, this has been a very stressful situation for you and you realize that it's over and that is a good thing but also a process....
Give yourself a bit of time, brush yourself off and then file and be rid of this stress once and for all.....
Keep your eyes open to what life has to offer and explore what you didn't before....I think you will be surprised at what you have been missing in this life......
Lots of great people to get to know.....lots of great places to see......
Take a deep breath for now........
This is just about you from now on.........
Thanks everyone. I have gone dark if you must know. H tried to call me but I never answered. He didn't try again. He has been trying to be nice since he hurt me again on Tuesday. It is just easier to just ignore him and go on with my life. It certainly hurts a lot less.
Yesterday DD22 and I went out to eat and then went shopping at the mall. I bought her a Christmas ornament from the Hallmark store. She want the ornament that counts down the time until Christmas. She is so funny. I can't believe she wanted that ornament. I guess she is still a kid at heart. She is like me in that aspect. This is my favorite time of year and hers too. I plan on us having a fun holiday season this year.
I am glad that you have gone dark. You know what peace that can bring.
I LOVE this time of year too. They have an ornament that counts down the days until xmas? I am gonna have to get that.
Take care.
Just came back to give everyone an update. H left Oct 22 and DD 20 moved in with him. I have had very little contact with H.
A couple of weeks ago I found out that the OW has been sniffing around my H again and I figured she would when H left. It hurt but I wasn't surprised. What really hurt is that my H has my daugters either lying to me or not telling me any thing and they always told me everything before.
I have been getting daily emails from "Charlyne Cares" and I have been getting closer to God and I have been finding peace. I am standing for my marriage and I know that my H will be back one day. Right now my H is spiraling out of control with his life. He smokes too much and drinks too much and isn't taking care of his health. He does contact me when he needs something from the house. During those times I invite him over for Thanksgiving and Christmas and New Year's. He actually asked me what I was doing for New Year's and I told him nothing and he said was doing nothing too. I worry about my H because eventually he is going to land up in the hospital.
I know that everyone is going to tell me that I should dump him and divorce him but I'm not. I think with time and God my marriage will be saved. I really don't believe in divorce but if my H wants one and files then I will give it to him without a fight. It will be just a piece of paper.
I am at peace with myself, finally. I am also doing quite well financially too.
Still hoping and praying.
Phoenix, you're making your stand and I respect that. Be well and be at peace.
Plan B is a very effective step that is somewhere between living in the chaos, and a D. Since you don't want to stay in the chaos or get a D, perhaps you will consider B as an option.
I agree on B.
I also know how very exhausting saving a marriage can be. How time passes and makes it all seem so very, very, very never ending.........
Hoping and praying you get and stay in an okay place. Yay on the financial peace of mind. That is a biggie!
.. I think with time and God my marriage will be saved. I really don't believe in divorce but if my H wants one and files then I will give it to him without a fight. It will be just a piece of paper.
I am at peace with myself, finally. I am also doing quite well financially too.
Still hoping and praying.
Sounds like all the ingredients for plan B to me. You don't believe in divorce, niether do I, and most of us here don't either so I don't know who is gonna say "dump the bum", don't think anyone here will.
Your a strong woman, and I know God is looking out for you. Just take care of you like you are, and come here whenever you like please it helps any way at all. You are not alone.
I am sorry to hear about the distance you feel is growing with your DD. I can tell you from experience most young people go the path of least resistance, and side with the parent most likely to seem to have the most freedom. Especially in the midst of strife.
For many years I was the "Heavy" in my house and while the kids were young, seemed to be ignored about as much as my wife ignored my example. I also was the only one working, and every problem was blamed on me not making enough money. Well the old saying money can't buy love is not just true, in many cases it is not money that is the problem, but it gets the blame. It was the iresponsible behavior that was just under the surface of accoutability where money is concerned, that most of the problems came from, along with some kind of fantasy that it would solve all the problems.
My wife played to the tune of "poor suffering me", and treated the kids well, as she also gave into the easy road with kids that status and popularity was something that would solve all our insecurities. It was easy for her because she was a big child too, who refused to grow up. She had no problem being a kid, it was adulthood she could not handle. This became clear when they started to become young adults in puberty, and she lost the, "perfect Mom", aura with them. Thats also when she started hiding and drinking.
Ask anybody with money, they will tell you all it does is eliminate the worry about not needing it.
You have allways handled that, and have a handle on its real worth. Glad you are doing well in that.
The problems that might arise now with your girls, (You have 2 right?), from your WH actions and lifestyle, along with your obvious example of discipline and probably being the stable one, are only part of a test. Our kids are allways watching us, and looking for guidance, even when they are rebelling. In the end your strong stands and faith will be what they depend upon in the times when they will need it, and they will need it someday. Stay strong in that, lol, but I could take lessons from you in staying strong.
I tell you because now I see my kids look at me differently than they did way back then. They allways loved me, but it was hard for them to trust me, with such division in the home, and then the loss of thier Mom. Its has been hard for them and scary to see thier Mom fall apart, and at first before it became obvious she made the choices, it was all blamed on me. They are processing this now and seeing it on thier own, while adjusting to being responsible adults.
All I can do is what is right and trust that God will keep me, and my children, as you are also.
Thanks for checking in and the update. Your in my prayers.
Well, I have gone completely dark. I told him I was cutting off all communication because OW has been around again. I have blocked him from my cellphone and my email. Everyone at work is helping out. They won't allow him to speak to me when he calls, that really floored him. The girls at work are actually enjoying this.
You could keep them on longterm as IMs, if they are willing. You could try asking them.
It sucks that you are not in a good recovery
but
FAB- UUUUUUUUU
for you going dark and having support at work!
Yes!
I am actually doing fine. Don't worry about me. I pray multiple times a day and I have left everything in God's hands. I continue with my life as I see fit.
I am actually losing the weight I gained thanks to Lexapro and my H. Everything is looking good right now. I have a feeling deep inside of me that this year is going to be my year. Just watch and see. Good luck to everyone and don't ever give up on what you want, I'm not.
H found a way around getting hold of me last night. Somehow he was able to IM on my cell phone. He let me know that he had downloaded the divorce papers and was going to proceed with the divorce and wanted me to unblock on the compter so we could discuss the divorce, namely the house. I text him before I went to bed that I would sign the papers, then I turned my phone off and went to bed. I got this morning real early and turned my phone on and there was a message saying that it needed to be done because he couldn't get a car because he was attached to the house. I emailed him and told him that even when we got divorced that I couldn't refinance the house because of DD23 ruining my credit(I co-signed for her. I told him that it would be at least 3yrs before I could refinance the house. The courts will give that to me here because they do it all the time and that is if they make me refinance at all. Teh only reason he is doing this is because I went completely dark and he can't finance a car. I also told him he would have to sign a quit claim deed too and that would probably help get a car financed. Sometimes finance companies will take someone off if they do that without refinancing especially if the payment has never been late and the same person is paying for it. I don't know but it sounded good. We are doing the simple dissolution of marriage which means no lawyers.
Hi Phoenix,
I am glad this is coming to a closure. He put you thru a lot. I remember your posts over a year ago when he was "trying" to save the M. It has been a long time. You deserve to start a new life without him.
He seem and is a real loser.
You are giving him a lot of info he can find out on his own. I would not help him one bit.
Let him figure out his stuff and be glad when you are finally a free woman!
Blessing
I agree...DO NOT HELP in the DIVORCE process!!
If he thinks it's gunna be that easy?? HA!!
Make sure you find a really good laywer so you are protected.
We are doing a simple dissolution of marriage so no lawyer needed. We split up the assets and I get the house and my car and MY bills, which aren't many. I really do want my marriage to recover and don't want a divorce but I am not going to fight him on the divorce. He'll get exactly what he wants and he will regret it.
Still hoping and praying.
Phoenix,
we are really 2 of a kind. I know how you feel about still wanting to R the M. But really, and this is as if I were telling this stuff to myself:
what is there to pine after?
I think we can pretty much say we gave our WH all the chances possible....and they simply DO NOT LOVE US ANYMORE.
If they did they would be doing what people who love do. They are not even close to that.
I know what you mean when you say "I still hope to R the M" cuz I feel the same
But really, how much easier would it be if we just let them go and moved on...and, in your case, since you will soon be D...look for a man who is, like you loyal and faithful.
Blessing
Phoenix, Even though you divided up everything with your H...go to an Lawyer for a free consultation to see if you are entitled to anything else .
Right now you are in a good financial position but later you never know. You have a long term M and might be entitled to pension, 401K whatever.
I did not want a D but I still protected myself and my DD as much as possible.
Most simple D are when the M is short, there are no assets and there is not much to divide. Protect yourself.
There isn't anything else that I want and he doesn't have much. He doesn't have a retirement anymore. He has taken it all out and spent it. The last was cashed in back in 2009 when he left.
I will say again that I want my marriage to recover and I will remain true to my vows. I believe in "til death do us part." I will stand for my marriage and I will continue to pray for my marriage too. I have a strong belief system and I will continue to do what I am doing. As you know, WS, seem to leave home and come a couple of times before they stay. I will always stand for my marriage even if my H does go through with the divorce and you will never be able to change my mind about that.
Yesterday was my 22nd anniversary. I spent alone watching movies that I rented. It was a nice quiet, peaceful night. I did real well. I saw my therapist and then went in and got some stuff at a weight loss clinic I go to. I have lost 10 1/2 pounds since Christmas. So I consider yesterday a very productive day.
Today I just cleaned and watched more movie and just relaxed. When I first came here I was so distraught and a nervous wreck and that was about a year and a half ago. Now I am actually calm and at peace. I do have my moments when I do cry but not that often. So to everyone out there especially those just starting on this long road just hang in there it does get easier with time. I never thought I would be where I am at right now. My life is good. I work and I do play as well and I am happy.
Still hoping and praying.
How are things with DDs?
Praying you find Joy Phoenix. You are one strong women. I don't believe you will ever be a giddy schoolgirl or do I wish that fate on anybody,
I do believe in time you will find Joy and happiness, along with peace and forgivness.
It IS a long road but worth it huh?
Hi everyone. Just another update. WH is still seeing the same other woman. I figured he was but didn't want anyone else to know. WH is still in a deep fog and I have gone dark plan B and it protects me.
WH wants a divorce now because he can't get a car loan because he is attached to the house loan. Told him to go ahead but he can't come off the loan because the courts will let me have time to get refinanced. WH has been threatening me and I told him to go ahead and do what he thinks he needs to do. I am so passed it all.
WH hasgone from the ILYBINILWY to the I love you as a friend and as a person to I don't love you and haven't for a while. Told him that I forgive him, I'm praying for him, and that I still love him. That made him mad and I wasn't mad. He kept talking over me. He is really losing it. He keeps saying where is your pride but I would rather be me and like myself and have the pride he is talking about. I hope he is proud that he is committing adultery, I hope he is proud that he destroyed his marriage and family and helped he to do the same. I hope he is proud that he is with someone young enough to be his daughter. I hope he is proud of the life he is living now. I wouldn't be. I do have pride just not his type of pride. I like myself.
I'm still praying for the restoration of my marriage and no matter what anyone says here I will continue to stand for marriage. Yes, my WH is an idiot but eventually the fog will lift and he will finally realize what an idiot he has been. Funny thing is, he told me he has free will and that he will never be back and God can't make him or convince to come back. Boy, is he in trouble now. Never, ever challenge God. WH is not the first to say that and has eaten his words and he won't be the last.
I am going to continue to live my life the way I see fit and just let my WH's life just go down the tubes. I have already made plans to go on a cruise with some friends of mine in April and to go to Tennesse in May. While my WH has been gone I have lost 28# since Christmas.
Still hoping and praying.
.. Funny thing is, he told me he has free will and that he will never be back and God can't make him or convince to come back. Boy, is he in trouble now. Never, ever challenge God. WH is not the first to say that and has eaten his words and he won't be the last...
I hear ya on that sister.
I thank Him He has answered all my challanges also.
You sound stable and good Phoenix, good to hear from you.
Funny thing is, he told me he has free will and that he will never be back and God can't make him or convince to come back. Boy, is he in trouble now. Never, ever challenge God. WH is not the first to say that and has eaten his words and he won't be the last.
Just today I saw a tagline that read
�There are two kinds of people: those who say to God, "Thy will be done," and those to whom God says, "All right, then, have it your way�
~~C. S. Lewis
Kinda fits, don't you think?
Have it your way..... this isn't Burger King!!!! I hate to say it but non-repentant spouses will get theirs and God will be sure....
I am reading a book by Anthony De Mello. Is called "Awareness".
In there he talks about God and compares him to several thing.
For example "The nature of the rain is the same, but it makes thorns grow in the marshes and flowers in the garden".
God loving nature is the same, but it is up to you to become a thorn or a flower.
Also God is love. Would the tree not give is shade to the sinner as much as to the saint? Or would the rose say to the sinner: no, you cannot have my fragrance, only the saint?
Of course what we think is bad (WH being with OW and leaving M) could be actually for the good of all. We do not have a full understanding of the plans of God.
We only see life thru a keyhole. Thru that keyhole we can only see a speck of what's beyond the door. We might see a thorn or a rock...but we do not see the beautiful rose or the green shimmering grass. We base our life on the thorn and the rock, and we suffer because we say they are ugly and painful and there must be more than that.
There is, in fact, but our mind is too limited to see it.
Your WH could be just fine without you and you without him. Look beyond that keyhole. There is more out there for you.
Blessing
The hissing, spitting, mean-ness means it isn't such a beautiful newer love and life he has now Phoenix.
Here's to you, your ds and the beautiful future you both can create.
It is okay with this reader if you still are open to rebuilding one day, if your WH ever transforms into a good guy.
Thanks everyone for your input. I do believe that God Hates divorce and wants our marriages to succeed. I also know that it says in the Bible that the 2 shall become one and what God has joined together that no one should not put asunder. Only God has that right. I will stick to my beliefs and let God take care of it. God has been so good to me during all this and if it wasn't for Him I would be in a bad place. God has placed so many good people in my life and I praise His name for it.
Finally saw DD20 last night and that is probably the 5th time since she left with her father. This the first time in a month that I have seen her. She has gainrd so much weight. She use to be tall and slim and now she is really heavy. All the clothes that she got for Christmas are too small. All she does is work and party. My WH buys her alcohol. She is going to destroy herself. My parents are upset because they say she is like her father now. DD23 says that her sister is an idiot and says the same about her father.
Parents came down this weekend and just left today. My father said not to worry that if I needed to hire a lawyer that he would pay for it and my father has more money than he really needs.
Still hoping and praying.
As someone said before, I think it was on MB, go talk to a guy who lost everything to his XW and then ask him who his XW's lawyer was.
And then hire him/her.
Talked to a friend of mine today that I haven't seen for a while. Her Husband is a lawyer and she is going to ask him who I should hire that is good but isn't expensive. Guess I'll be getting an appointment for a consultaion real soon.
This is good. At least get the legal information you are going to need.
It is very scary if you do not know the truth.
My friend handed me a piece of paper at work today with 2 lawyers names on them and told me that her Husband said both were real good with the 1st one being better. Guess I will call tomorrow and see how much they are and figure out which one I want to consult with. Hoping to come up with the lawyer's fees myself to prevent my Dad from having to pay. With the cost of lawyers I don't see how anyone can afford to hire one. It costs around $2500 for a divorce lawyer around here.
Well, WH got a DUI on 2/26 and I found out on line on my birthday which was 3/6. He spent about 12 hrs in jail. He lost his drivers license except he does have a hardship licnse. He called me on 3/14 and let me know this after he told me he had lost his job that day. Boy, God sure got him and he is too stupid to realize that is what is happening. Now WH has no job, no license, no money, and no vehicle. His job did file it as a layoff so he could get unemployment. He does have that.
WH is still seeing OW but he says that they are just friends now. Right. I'm surprised he hasn't tried to come home. But he hasn't. Today he came over and fixed my washing machine but that is all. He thinks I am a fruit and that I am a fanatic because I talk to God and I get answers from Him. He says he believes in God but doesn't believe God talks to us or gives us signs. What do you think He has been doing to my WH? Call it Karma or call it God it is the same thing.
I told WH today that I was going to file for divorce next month because of what he said today. I am tired and I am tired of hurting. Even removed him from my friends list on facebook. He just got the account a week ago and OW is a friend on it and he had the nerve to ask me questions about it. Why doesn't he ask her? She's young, she should know how to do everything on there. That is when he let me know that they are just friends now, right. Funny thing is, is that he calls and texts me a LOT more now that he has lost his job. I don't care anymore. I am so mad and hurt that I just wish that both of them would just die and leave me alone, especially her. I just want her out of my life forever.
I am tired and I am tired of hurting.
I am so sorry you're hurting. Your WH is hitting rock bottom and it's not changing anything. My DH did the same, but the difference is when he hit rock bottom, it woke him up. I don't see that in your WH. Do you?
Don't you think it's long past time to go to a real Plan B?
(((Phoenix)))
I agree with PM. Your WH hasn't hit rock bottom yet because he's still got his wife and his girlfriend. Close that door by going to Plan B, Phoenix, and let his cheating girlfriend deal with him alone. See how long that lasts.
I went back in Plan B last night. At least I got my washer fixed by him yesterday before I did that. I have blocked him from my computer again. I even unfriended him on facebook. Bet he hasn't even noticed. Plan on filing for divorce in April when I get the money, which I should have by the end of the month. Unfortunately, I plan on having some plastic surgery and I would rather use the money for that. Oh well, either way the money will be spent on something good for me.
Saw my therapist today. She told me again that if it wasn't for my faith that I wouldn't be where I am at today. My faith has made me strong. She said that the reason my WH has been mad and upset at me is because he is feeling guilty and can't understand why I can still live him and why am I praying for him. My WH can't seem to push my buttons anymore. She said my WH would rather have me mad at him and angry so he would feel better and that he could understand that. She told me that when I was ready I would divorce him and that I should not listen to anyone else about divorcing my WH because I have to live with myself and my decisions. She is right and I told my mother this and she said in other words you are telling to butt outand I said yes. She laughed and said she understood.
Yes, I still love my WH and I am still praying for him but it is time for me to divorce him. Maybe one day he will wake up. Maybe if he is lucky I will be around and maybe I won't.
I am now down 40# and 25# to go to get to my goal. I have only 8# to go to be where I was before all this crap happened. I just want to lose 17# after that to be where I want to be.
It is nice to see my WH having all the troubles he is having. He brought it on himself. If he had been a good person and had been faithful none of this would have happened.
..Saw my therapist today. She told me again that if it wasn't for my faith that I wouldn't be where I am at today. My faith has made me strong. She said that the reason my WH has been mad and upset at me is because he is feeling guilty and can't understand why I can still live him and why am I praying for him. My WH can't seem to push my buttons anymore. She said my WH would rather have me mad at him and angry so he would feel better and that he could understand that. ..
I agree that if you are mad then he can call you a "big meany" and feel sorry for himself. I think thats pretty common with addicts also.
Glad to hear you are reaching your weight goals and looking after yourself. After his rock bottom hit lately it will be up to him to get himself together. As you have said, there is probably an expiration date on how long you will wait for him to work on your marraige.
Faith as small as a mustard seed can move mountains. Its funny that it the obedience that does the work, even though most of our capacity remains small. I tried to have faith when my wife was drinking and screwwing around, and was mad at myself for not having strength and hurting. Thats no way to go believe me. It would have been better if I was afraid of losing myself and the pain I was feeling, than try to get "More faith".
You just keep listening to God, and working on you. WH is in Gods hands anyways, he allways was, even if he doesn't listen to him.
Thanks, Constant, I do love my H but he just doesn't love himself even though he is selfish and thinks only of himself. He thinks otherwise but his actions speak louder than words. The only thing my WH has left to lose is his apartment and I'm wondering when that will happen. He can go live with the OW then and let her support him. The only way he can come home is if he really wants to work on our marriage and he won't because then he would have to admit he was wrong. He also said God couldn't make him come home. I'm also waiting for DD20 to finally get fed up with my H and move back home. I give it about 1-2 months and she will be back.
Still hoping and praying.
Haven't heard from my WH in about 2 weeks but then I blocked him from my computer and cell phone. Usually that doesn't stop him, he always seems to get around it.
Saw a friend of my WH who lives near us and he knew that WH had gotten arrested for DUI because he saw his mug shot in a mug shot magazine about 3 weeks ago. Friend didn't know that WH had lost his job but said that WH is an idiot and that he got what he deserved. Friend also said that WH probably wants to come home but doesn't know how. I don't care, if he wants to come home then OW can take care of him.
Going to proceed with divorce because of everything my WH is doing and I don't want to be connected to it.
On a good note though, I am down 43# with 22# to go to reach my goal. I go back on my HCG diet in a week, hopefully I'll be down 2# by then and have only 20# left. I'll be down to my desired weight by the end of May.
Still hoping and praying.
Phoenix, you sound so much stronger every time you post.
Good you are no longer trying to "save" WH. You are not a missionary and he has to save himself, especially with the drinking also.
Continue working on yourself. You are doing great.
I was just talking to someone about that HCG diet. She had lost quite a bit of weight. Do you mind asking if you have kept in the 500 calorie a day cycle which I think she did for 20 days? Did you experience any side effects. I had lost 47 pounds but the scale is starting to creep back out so I am ready to take the bull by the horns again and get back on track.
Blessings to you.
I keep my calorie content from 480-520 cal/day. HCG is suppose to make you think you are pregnant and with the low calorie diet your body goes for the fat stores and it does. I am under a doctor/nurse practioner's care the whole time. The first time I was on the diet for 2 cycles of 30 days and I have to off the diet for at least 3 weeks. I resume the diet this weekend after being off for 4 1/2 weeks. I hope to be down at least another 2# by this weekend and it looks like I will.
Found out yesterday that WH hasn't been able to sleep because of everything that has been going on in his life with finances at the top right now. His guilt is also eating him up. Well, he dug himself into this deep pit and now he has to get himself out of it. Guess he better turn to the OW since she is the reason he is there. I think he is finally realizing, "oh crap, what have I done!" Everything goes back to the OW. He would not have lost his job if he hadn't had to mess around with her. He would not have destroyed his marriage and his family if he didn't have to mess around wth her, he would not have lost his 2nd job if he had not been arrested for drinking and driving because he had to be drinking heavily if had not been messing wiht her. My WH has lost everything and he will not ever recover from this because he is 48yrs with diabetes and high cholesterol, no job, no car, no license, and no education. Maybe he can work at McDonalds. He doesn't knowhow he is going to pay his bills, ask the OW.
Planning on cutting grass tomorrow and then going to beach for a couple of hours in my new 2 piece bathing suit from Victoria's Secret. I look good now and I am going to enjoy myself.
Still hoping and praying.
Phoenix, t
hanks for the info on the diet part. Wow the calories are low. did you have any problem with hair loss since your body will start feeding off any protein in your body? I think I am going to start the 17 day diet and see how that goes.
Ok now back to WH. He has come to that place where he is reaching his bottom and spiraled down. He needs to reach that dark place to see the results of his bad choices. Is or has he ever been in a program like AA for his drinking?
How do you feel that he has reached this bottom? Is your love bank totally tapped out for him now? I know that you really wanted to recover the M before.
Congrats on taking good care of yourself and buying that new bathing suit from Victorias. BS rock when given the chance.
Hope,
I take a lot of supplements. I take a multivitamin twice a day, biotin everyday, magnesium and calcium daily, vitamin D3, and other stuff to help. I lost almost all fat. I also get a vitamin B12, B5, B6 and lipotropics shot weekly(i do it myself). The diet is easy to do, it is just the first few days that are the hardest.
If WH hasn't hit rock bottom he is almost there. Yes, I still want my marriage to succeed, but I need to divorce him to protect myself because of his DUI. They might go after my house or expect me to pay because we are still married. There is no such thing as legal separation in the state of Florida. I still love my WH and that is only through the Grace of God that I do. And it is because of God that I am doing so well at the moment. It is through Him that I get my strength.
Still hoping and praying.
.. I still love my WH and that is only through the Grace of God that I do. And it is because of God that I am doing so well at the moment. It is through Him that I get my strength.
Still hoping and praying.
I get this...
Great news on your successes PR
Hi CP, glad to hear from you and everyone else. I am doing great and now posting on other threads. I am gaining more and more confidence everyday thanks to God. I feel great about myself. I am making plans for the future and things are looking up. I can't believe it has been almost 2 years since I discovered my WH affair and 18months since I started coming to marriage builders. My original thread was lost during the 2009 void. I had actually started a thread around the beginning of Sept 2009 then everything here crashed.
WH is still looking for a job and has been applying on line. With the economy as it is and him without a college education he is going to have a hard time getting a decent paying job. I tried for years to get him to go to college but he refused and now he is paying for it. But then he wouldn't be in his present situation if he had been a faithful husband. If he had been faithful he never would have started drinking and drinking heavily and he never would have been drinking and driving. It is a shame because he was a good man with a great future ahead of him and now he has no future. And I cannot get him out of this, he has to and he can get the OW to help him since she put him there. I'm betting money she will up and disappear real soon. If she can't make her marriage last 5 or 6 years how long do you expect her to be with my WH.
Still hoping and praying.
WH pre-trial was Tuesday but don't know what happened but I did notice on the county clerks web site that his trial is set for April 26th at 0830. Found out from a friend of mine that since WH refused to blow he will automatically lose his license for a year. I think that once I file for divorce and he loses his trial(which he will) he will probably hit rock bottom. Hope he doesn't think OW will stand by him for long but if she does she can have him, all of his problems, and all of his money. Oops, sorry, he doesn't have any!
Still hoping and praying.
I am back on my HCG diet and hoping for the best. I have 22# left to go and I will be at my goal weight. I would like to lose 7# more after that but I'll take my time on that.
At 0520 this morning my DD20 pomeranian was barking because DD23 was up walking in the dark. I slept a little longer and then was awake for awhile. I got up just after 7 and let the dogs out but she didn't come out. I wasn't worried because she'll do that sometime. I went into the kitchen/dining area and found her I thought asleep. She wasn't. She had died in her sleep. Don't know what of. She was only 11yrs old and Poms live a long time and she hadn't been sick at all. As a matter of fact, she was very active. You wouldn't believe she was 11. It killed me to have to tell DD20 that her dog had died. WH text me and want to know if he could help bury her and I told him no that I would take care of it. He kept trying to get me to pick him up and bring him here. I kept telling him no. I buried Cookie beside our boxer in the side yard. I did just fine until I had to cover her with dirt. It really hurt to do this by myself. I kept thinking that my WH should be here by my side doing this. Even though he wanted to come and do this I wouldn't let him because of everything he has done.
Still hoping and praying.
Oh that's awful. Poor puppy.
I bet dd is devastated. Sorry you had to do that. WH has to know that things aren't ok with his life as it is.
Btw, are you in a plan B or plan ? Which plan is it?
Are you in plan D and personal recovery now?
Wishing you the best and peace for a good night. Again, sorry for the loss of the sweet puppy.
Sorry to hear about your Pomm PR
Right now I am in no plan. I am planning on getting a divorce as soon as I get the money. I am just taking one day at a time and now I just take care of me and I work for myself. Back on my HCG diet now and I am getting my hair done this coming Friday.
Went to breakfast after early Church with DD20 and got compliments on my dress. One lady came back a second time to let me know hw much she liked my dress. I have to admit I did look good in that dress.
Well, the cycle of life continues on. DD20 dog Cookie died this morning and her horse, Baby, had a foal named, Gaelan, tonight. She is solid black with a tiny white mark on her forehead. She stays with my parents in Tennessee.
Still hoping and praying.
Well, I guess you could say I am in plan B moving into plan D. I leave WH alone, don't have anything to do with him. Right now several people think he is trying to test the waters to see if he can come back. I kind of doubt it. He dug his own deep pit with the OW help and she can get him out of it. I actually doubt she'll be around much longer never mind being able to get him out of that pit. WH trial is April 26th and after that he won't have a license for a year and no telling how big of a fine. Wish I was already divorced. WH still doesn't have a job.
Still hoping and praying.
Well, I guess you could say I am in plan B moving into plan D. I leave WH alone, don't have anything to do with him. Right now several people think he is trying to test the waters to see if he can come back. I kind of doubt it. He dug his own deep pit with the OW help and she can get him out of it. I actually doubt she'll be around much longer never mind being able to get him out of that pit. WH trial is April 26th and after that he won't have a license for a year and no telling how big of a fine. Wish I was already divorced. WH still doesn't have a job.
Still hoping and praying.
Hi Phoenix, just stay out of his way for when he crashes. No rescue, you are not a missionary and you do not have to save him. He has to hit rock rock bottom and have repentance. Without that there will be no changes just more waywardness.
Keep up your good work taking care of yourself. How much weight did you lose totally? I just weighed myself this morning and lost 4 pounds anc counting on this 17 day diet.
I am so sorry to hear about your dog. One of my dogs is 11 also and she sleeps alot these days while the 2 year old dog spins circles around her. At least she went peacefully instead of going to the vets all the time.
Blessings.
Don't worry, Hope, I am not going to save my WH. He would have to have true repentance and I don't think that is coming. It might happen for a while, but I think after he got over everything he would be back at it again. I will be truthful, I do love him and want him back but right now if he came back it would be because he couldn't make it on his own. I refuse to support him any longer.
I have lost 43# so far with at least 22# to go. I started back on the HCG diet again this week. Have plans for the next couple of months and they don't have my WH in any of them.
Getting my hair cut, styled, and highlighted this Friday. I am so looking forward to this. Plan on getting new pictures taken for my facebook page this weekend. Like they say, the best revenge is looking good and I look great!
Still hoping and praying.
I just read through your entire thread (it took me three days). I have to say you are very strong and have handled things well. One thing I would mention though is I would hate to see you lose your house just because you procrastinated getting a divorce. Protect your lifelong investment if you have to borrow from your dad to do it! Get the ball rolling asap! I can't stress this enough. My XH sunk me financially, sticking me with all of his bills and his business' bills...I didn't even get a tax deduction out of it because the business was in his name. I, like you, had wanted to save the marriage but if I'd acted faster, I wouldn't be in the financial situation I'm in now.
Another caution...if he comes crawling back to you, with your loving him and wanting to save the marriage, it could be very tempting to take him back, esp. if he snows you about how he loves you, missed you, wants things to work, etc. But as much as he has breeched your marital vows you need to be extremely cautious and NOT trust him. He needs to have a long proving ground and not gain financially in any way whatsoever if he comes back, he needs to be completely self-sufficient. Make a list of stiplulations now while your wits are about you and hang on to it in case you get weak, please, to protect yourself from future heartache. One of those stipulations might be having his driver's license back, having a job, no drinking, attending AA, attending church with you, a professed belief in God (not just head knowledge of), meeting your EN, counseling, contributing equally to the household finances and chores, NO being alone with other women, you having full access to passwords, computer, cell phone, etc. and anything else you can think of to add. Do NOT make it easy for him! He needs to show he wants you for the right reasons and how hard he is willing to work for it. You did so great up until you took him back and then it seemed like you took too much stuff off of him and haven't been in a true complete Plan B since. Plan B should include not hearing about him through daughters and not checking up on him to find out how he's doing. You aren't truly independent of him until you reach the place where you truly are not affected of him...otherwise he still holds power over you. Hand him completely over to God. Don't look on line or in the paper or talk to friends about him in an effort to find out information. Tell your friends and children you do not want to know anything about him. The only contact should be he is ready to come back and then get out your stipulation list, dust it off and see how he's doing in comparison.
I applaud your weight loss, your outlook, your financial independence, your strength. I know God has been through it all with you and will continue. He is our strength!
Your right Kay, and if I see things correctly PR has been the adult most of thier realtionship history, and she knows it too.
I feel for her because she has put so much into the relationship and her family, but still he gets worse and slides down. Its tough because those are years and time you can't get back.
But God will restore what seems like wasted time and years lost, as she moves away from this alien. I would also suggest a MB rectal probe being permentaly installed if she decides to let him back into her life.
Well I can understand her being tenacious about their relationship, but not as he is! She's already given/done so much more than most ever would and more than he deserves. I realize it's not about that, but it DOES need to be about his starting to do/be for HER!
Well I can understand her being tenacious about their relationship, but not as he is! She's already given/done so much more than most ever would and more than he deserves. I realize it's not about that, but it DOES need to be about his starting to do/be for HER!
ITA, this guy is really messed up, and she has been his Mommy for to long.
I understand where you 2 are coming from. I really don't have any contact with WH. I just leave him alone to his on devices. I don't ask my daughters about their Dad. As a matter of fact when I had breakfast with DD20 this past Sunday WH was not even mentioned.
Talked to DD20 tonight and she said that WH is wanting her to contibute more money to the bills/rent and she is paying for her car that he was paying for until he got fired when all this started in 2009. I told her to just move back home and she said that he would just go off again and she doesn't want the drama. She said that when the lease was up, she was back home. Told her that she could come home any time. If WH keeps up what he is doing she will be home long before the lease is up.
I am going to get a divorce as soon as possible. I am hoping to file by May. Right now since the housing market is bad I actually owe more than whate the house is worth. So WH cannot make me pay him 1/2 of the equity. I'll have the house paid for in about 9 yrs. I make an extra payment a year. At this point I don't want WH to come back because it would be because he can't make it on his own. I am just so tired of everything and I am tired of him using me.
WH has lost his license for a year just for not blowing when he was pulled over for drunk driving. I don't know what else is going to happen because he hasn't gone to trial yet. This is the main reason why I am going to file for divorce. He is spiraling out of control and I don't want him to bring me down as well. If he realizes how big a mess his life is and it is because he had to commit adultery I wouldn't know since I don't talk to him anymore. This is a man who after he started dating me straightened his life out. His family loves me and were so happy that he married me. WH quit smoking, quit drinking and became ambitious. When he took up with OW he started smoking and started drinking. He smokes a lot more than he did before he quit 20yrs ago and he drinks more now than he use to. The OW helped him to screw his life up and his family hates her. They are mad at him too.
He is being who he is. Whatever straightening out you think he did was 20 years worth of temporary. You can't rescue him, you are right, only he can decide that course of action.
He is being who he is. Whatever straightening out you think he did was 20 years worth of temporary. You can't rescue him, you are right, only he can decide that course of action.
Amen, been there, done that, and unlike you PR, I didn't get out when I should have. Well maybe it was cuz the kids were young, but I think that was my excuse.
Yeah, it's so easy for me to look back now and see what I SHOULD have done...but when you're in it, it's a whole different thing, it's so hard because all of your emotions are involved. It would help to step back and take a look at things from outside yourself...in psychology that's called "having an observing eye". I've learned to do that but not always perfectly!
Congratulations on the weight loss, and I'm so sorry to hear about the adorable puppy. It's so sad to lose a beloved pet.
Now, I have another suggestion besides D, and cheaper, too.
Plan B costs little to nothing except consistency and a bunch of internal fortitude. You say you don't really have C with WH, yet I see just over the last page of posts how time and again you know what he's doing, and even have him texting you about the doggy.
These things should not be so.
This non-Plan-B is so damaging to a BS, whether they want R or not. Get him out of your life 100% until such time as he becomes repentant. That is the truly loving thing to do, both for yourself and for him.
And to protect you from his shenanigans, asap file a legal separation. You can fill out the paperwork yourself to get started, and can probably get the fees reduced or waived by filling out the hardship forms.
Worry about whether to save your M later. Worry about whether to file D later. For now, protect yourself legally, and get him out of your life. Turn "not really in contact" (which is, really, in contact), into complete NC.
You're worth it.
I totally agree, in fact I almost suggested it myself.
There is no such thing as a legal separation in Florida. I've already looked into it. It is one of the few states that don't have one.
I just want to say Happy Easter to everyone and hope you have had a wonderful one. I have had a great day and I know that many more are to come.
Still hoping and praying.
Happy Easter to you, too.
Even with LS off the table as an option, it's more than important - it's crucial that you protect your emotional well-being. Do not allow yourself to be taken hostage by that terrorist for even a moment.
Well things sure have changed lately. On Easter morning before Church I took and Eastere basket to DD20 and one for my WH. DD20 wasn't there like she was suppose to be but WH was shocked and pleased that I brought him one and thanked me. Later on that day WH called meto thank me again for the Easter basket and how much he appreciated it. He then told me that he had talked to his brother(he has 3 brothers and 2 sisters) that day. I asked how he was doing and he said fine. He then told me that this brother and his younger sister have been telling him that he needs to get home and do what is right. I never said anything back. Ever since then WH has been keeping in contact with me. I haven't stopped him but I haven't been encouraging him either. I have tried to stay neutral.
I went and picked up an accucheck meter and supplies for WH since he is not allowed to drive until sometime in July. While I was there he asked me again if he could get a phone added onto my plan for just calls and texts. The bill is in his name and it would only be an extra $10/month which he would pay. I asked why he didn't he get the OW to add him to her plan since they were together. He told me that their relationship had burned out. He told me all this, this past Saturday.
Saw DD20 this past Saturday and she was on a rampage about her Dad and about his friends he use to be business with, who by the way are the ones who did not stand by him when he got fired. One of those friends she hates becaus she blames him and the OW for her Dad drinking so much. She also let me know thatWH had written a nasty text message to the OW that blamed her for everything going wrong in his life for the past 2yrs and that he wished he never had met her. Don't if he eversent it to her.
Still on about this weekend. WH asked to come over for a drink Saturday night and I did go over. I had one drink the whole night. We then went out to a bar with DD23 later. I took WH home and he then asked me stay with him. I landed up sleeping alone in my bed that night.
I don't know if my marriage is going to recover or not. I am just going to take it one day at a time and see what happens. If it does recover I am going to have some stipulations on him coming home. I am going into this with my eyes wide open, I don't want to get my hopes up.
Still hoping and praying.
Oh dear. You sound so hopeful!
This is painful to read.
May I ask why you chose to give him an Easter basket? And why you are cushioning the blow of rightful consequences of all of his heinous actions?
I think the above post illustrates the difficulty with the "one day at a time, no plan".
Well things sure have changed lately. On Easter morning before Church I took and Eastere basket to DD20 and one for my WH. DD20 wasn't there like she was suppose to be but WH was shocked and pleased that I brought him one and thanked me. Later on that day WH called meto thank me again for the Easter basket and how much he appreciated it. He then told me that he had talked to his brother(he has 3 brothers and 2 sisters) that day. I asked how he was doing and he said fine. He then told me that this brother and his younger sister have been telling him that he needs to get home and do what is right. I never said anything back. Ever since then WH has been keeping in contact with me. I haven't stopped him but I haven't been encouraging him either. I have tried to stay neutral.
Are you in plan B with him? I am not saying he will not change but it is too early to even consider being with him I went and picked up an accucheck meter and supplies for WH since he is not allowed to drive until sometime in July. While I was there he asked me again if he could get a phone added onto my plan for just calls and texts. The bill is in his name and it would only be an extra $10/month which he would pay. I asked why he didn't he get the OW to add him to her plan since they were together. He told me that their relationship had burned out. He told me all this, this past Saturday.
Who cares about the OW. Do not "help" him in his bills/problems/crisis even adding a phone. Saw DD20 this past Saturday and she was on a rampage about her Dad and about his friends he use to be business with, who by the way are the ones who did not stand by him when he got fired. One of those friends she hates becaus she blames him and the OW for her Dad drinking so much. She also let me know thatWH had written a nasty text message to the OW that blamed her for everything going wrong in his life for the past 2yrs and that he wished he never had met her. Don't if he eversent it to her.
Plan B? Do you see how your daughter is modeling her behavior after YOU? She is blaming everyone else but her father about his drinking. He drinks because he is a drunk. No excuses. WH is also doing the blame game and not being accountable pointing the finger at OW for all of his troubles. This is not good Still on about this weekend. WH asked to come over for a drink Saturday night and I did go over. I had one drink the whole night. We then went out to a bar with DD23 later.
I took WH home and he then asked me stay with him. I landed up sleeping alone in my bed that night.
WHY would you be drinking with an alcoholic????? it is like giving chocolate to a diabetic? What is your reasoning for this. Do you go to Alanon? Why are you enabling a drunk to drink? My XH is an alcoholic and it is the last thing I would ever do with him. This is unhealthy behaviour on your part. Drinking with him is saying it is ok...ITS NOT I don't know if my marriage is going to recover or not. I am just going to take it one day at a time and see what happens. If it does recover I am going to have some stipulations on him coming home. I am going into this with my eyes wide open, I don't want to get my hopes up.
These actions will not recover your M. First as long as he is drinking and not in a program -- stay away. Without that you cannot recover. You are already starting to rescue him. Please get to Alanon. Stop enabling him. Still hoping and praying.
Hoping is not a method but a good plan is. I continue to pray for my XH but I do know he has to fall hard before any remorse or recovery would ever happen in life.
Blessings
I have to agree. My first thought when I read this is, "why would you drink with an alcoholic, let alone one you are separated from?" One of your conditions on taking him back should be he stop drinking for at least a year, and attend AA. You should attend Al-anon, you could clearly use some help in understanding how to deal with an alcoholic...the answer isn't in drinking with him.
He needs to feel the full brunt of his consequences, if that means walking or riding the bus to the store to get his supplies, so be it. He should also get a phone on his own plan. You don't even know if you'll end up together, I sure wouldn't want to incur more bills on his behalf! He's using you and you are letting him. He is not your friend, he cheated on you, left you, has been thinking of himself, not you and the kids, and is drinking himself into oblivion. Please don't enable him! I know you don't see it like that, that's why you need to attend Al-anon...be brave enough to go and hear what they say.
There are worse things than being alone and one is being in a bad marriage with an alcoholic that has shown no regard for you.
I'm sorry! I think you're a great person, I just don't think you're handling things right currently.
I have to agree. My first thought when I read this is, "why would you drink with an alcoholic, let alone one you are separated from?" One of your conditions on taking him back should be he stop drinking for at least a year, and attend AA. You should attend Al-anon, you could clearly use some help in understanding how to deal with an alcoholic...the answer isn't in drinking with him.
He needs to feel the full brunt of his consequences, if that means walking or riding the bus to the store to get his supplies, so be it. He should also get a phone on his own plan. You don't even know if you'll end up together, I sure wouldn't want to incur more bills on his behalf! He's using you and you are letting him. He is not your friend, he cheated on you, left you, has been thinking of himself, not you and the kids, and is drinking himself into oblivion. Please don't enable him! I know you don't see it like that, that's why you need to attend Al-anon...be brave enough to go and hear what they say.
There are worse things than being alone and one is being in a bad marriage with an alcoholic that has shown no regard for you.
I'm sorry! I think you're a great person, I just don't think you're handling things right currently.
ITA...I would re-read your thread, and read what part of my story I might have posted. My wife was an alcohlic and I thought I was stronger than others too.
There is a limit to helping others and a point where its enablement. Do you really love him or just want to be right?
I hope your pride doesn't get in the way and you can take this right.
Hi everyone. I am doing fine. Told WH last night that he had been leading me on after having a long discussion. OW is no longer in the picture and I told WH that it didn't make a difference if she was or not because he wasn't coming home. Told him that I could not be just friends and that I loved him. Told him that he destroyed his marriage, his family and his life all for nothing. All for a piece of white trash W---e. Told him that I was filing for divorce after I came home from vacation and that he would finally get the divorce that he wanted. He told me he didn't care if he got one or not. TOUGH! He is getting that divorce if I have to shove it down his throat. Told him last night that this was the last time he would see me and not to contact me ever again.
It's sad you have to go to this point.
If you fully intend on going through with divorce, start preparing for war. Pitbull attorney, get a list of assets (car, house, 401k, etc) that he has, etc, to be sure he can't hide anything.
WH has nothing. All we have together is the house and because of the market it is worth less than what we owe on it. I am the one who has been paying for the house and I will get the house. I am filing a simple dissolution of marriage. Don't need an attorney. Right now WH is still paying an attorney for his DUI and that is around $10,000 and he can't afford 2 attorneys, heck he can't even afford the one he has. WH has no job, no license, and no vehicle. He isn't going to fight it.
Your Taker has had enough.
Go dark whether you file or not.
Just go dark. Refocus to you. Enough of him for now and who knows what the future will eventually hold.
ITA with Reading.
Dark is the only way you're going to avoid getting dragged into his cesspool.
I have gone dark now. I'm just tired of all of this. I've been doing fine and this has just hurt me. I feel used and now I refuse to have anything to do with him. I have been thinking about filing for divorce on the way out of town when I go on vacation and let him be serve while I am gone. I just want all this to be over. He is going to be all alone. No me and no OW. So sorry, NOT!
Do what is good for you, go out with your head held high.
WH has nothing. All we have together is the house and because of the market it is worth less than what we owe on it. I am the one who has been paying for the house and I will get the house. I am filing a simple dissolution of marriage. Don't need an attorney. Right now WH is still paying an attorney for his DUI and that is around $10,000 and he can't afford 2 attorneys, heck he can't even afford the one he has. WH has no job, no license, and no vehicle. He isn't going to fight it.
The heavy damage that alcoholism and denial does to families, here is another example. PR now has to plug the holes of loss and pain in her own self and children, and put her life in order, maintaining faith that all the hard work and dedication was worth it. Its a tough place to be, and even though she can see how she livedwas better because she sees Whs devestation, and how he has damaged so much, that is not what she started out working for, and not what she planned on in her marriage.
You remind me of my Mom, whereas in her strength and understanding, was also her weakness, if I can include myself in those honorable three, it reminds me of me also.
But good news PR, you have been realesed from the unholy union, and reflecting on my Mom, who was also married to a weak-minded man, I see a good future ahead for you. I mean no disrespect for my Dad, but being a mature adult and a good marriage partner were not His strong suits in relationships with others.
Let him go, get help with alanon to understand the complicated messes alcohol makes in families, keep seeing your IC, seek the counsel of other Godly like minded people, as God has placed them here to help where they can.
Above all let patience do her perfect work, and remember this scripture also.
Jeremiah 29:11
For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
God will help you overcome this and still have a full life with great things coming your way. He wants us to live more abundantly, such is why he sent his Son, to remove the guilt and shame of sin, because we could never bear it.
There are healthy forms of denial, and denying the negative and destructive thoughts that attack us is important for mental health. Its a shame that many use this as they want to deny truth at the same time, or thier own weakness as human beings.
Still hoping and praying for you too PR, may God bless you with a new day as you put yourself under his wing for now and hide in the cleft of the rock.
We shall overcome..
What was so bad before I left yesterday was that I told my H that he needed to quit smoking. He smokes 2 or more packs a day which is more than he smoked when he quit over 20years ago. I even told him that he needed to quit drinking too because he drinks too much. He told me he didn't drink a lot. Liar, my DD20's boyfriend told me that my H drank everyday. I took H to the store last night before I left and he came out of the store with a case of beer! I just shook my head. If he wants to kill himself then so be it. He'll have to do it alone. He hasn't faced reality and I don't ever think he will. It is such a shame because he was such a good man.
.. He hasn't faced reality and I don't ever think he will. It is such a shame because he was such a good man.
I understand more than you know, been there done that, seen it over and over too many times. We can't bear thier cross for them, they must go to it alone.
Does this sound familiar? Do you see that your are also a caretaker? I know how frustrating it can be to watch someone destroy themselves. You are protecting your children. let God take care of Him, us humans just can't help them anyways, once they lose respect for themselves and for us.
There is life and respect outside of this PR, above this crap you have been dragged into because of your heart of forgivenes and hard work.
Thanks everyone for everything. It is just so hard and I am so tired. I can't wait until it is all over with. I let myself get sucked back in because he was letting me think he was coming back. He said he wasn't but why tell me that his brother and sister were telling him to come home, why call and text me about everything, why ask me over, why ask me to stay with him, why text me at midnight and ask me over for lunch? Why, why, why? There was more but I am not going to list it. I feel like such a fool. All this has taught me a lesson and definitely made sure that I am no longer going to have any contact with him and that I am filing for divorce this month. I can no longer stay married to a self destructive person, I need to preserve my sanity and take care of me.
Why? Because he is a selfish mess, thats all you need to know, don't waste your time figuring it out for him.
Why? well as you said, you need to preserve your sanity. Its time for you now.
This is why Dr Harley does not recommend an extended Plan A.
Especially true for women.
Especially true when the WS has a substance abuse issue.
The BS will grow a deep hatred for the WS.
This is why Dr Harley does not recommend an extended Plan A.
Especially true for women.
Especially true when the WS has a substance abuse issue.
The BS will grow a deep hatred for the WS.
Yep or themselves, but the energy will go somewhere, it will destroy something, and what you think is still how much you love them, becomes something quite different and unhealthy all around.
Thx Pep, I,m still trying to nail down every way I allowed that crap to change my direction and outlook, and what you said helped me too.
Ok Phoenix, your screen name says what you are to do with your life. Rise again from ashes.
Now the situation with your wh is to be that of an addict and you can't repair anything as long as he's an alcoholic also addicted to cigarettes, which is an unhealthy lifestyle for even the kids or you to be around him in as secondhand smoke also kills. I know about this and see it at work all the time (the results of it).
Your wh should be given an ultimatum. If he wishes a divorce, then he keeps on as he is now. If he wishes to have a prayer of a chance to save his family, he is to check himself into a rehab and when he is finished with rehab (alcohol and cigs) then he can call Dr. Harley and see about beginning therapy for the marriage.
But you see, Phoenix you cannot change somebody else, only sadly enable them and or possibly slide further down WITH them. He has to want out of his hell. You can't pull him out. All you can do is encourage and pray but NOT ENABLE (fine line there).
It is time to detach from him. this time give him a plan B letter stating that the affair has helped him spiral downward into a shell of the life he used to have, and that you or the kids cannot be a part of it as it is now. Or maybe stage an intervention-like scenario where you all tell him and hand him the plan b letter. His recipe for recovery begins within, and HE will do all the hard lifting and healing on his own.
You wanted to think so so bad you "beat" the ow and that he'd come home, but having an addicted still wayward spouse come home in your mind might be better than nothing, but that is not winning. Kinda like Charlie Sheen's version of "winning".
It is not marriage at all costs.
YOU are a kind woman, but possibly you need some IC to figure out what is really going on inside of you. I was frightened and worried after reading how you took a drunk out for a night of drinking and then brought him to your home. That is my friend, totally disrespecting yourself.
If ever your wh comes back, it should only and only be when 1)he has a clean bill of mental and physical health from a rehab facility and 2)when he has sought help after that from Dr. Harley. Until then, I'd do the plan B and intervention then go black. He will have the letter showing the way home.
Sometimes prodigals come back. Sometimes they don't. And if they do not, they will use up every ounce of energy or good feelings you have trying to suck you down with them.
I feel better today. All I wanted to do yesterday was cry and now today is different. I still want it to be over and have him out of my life. I have to be strong and block him from everything because I know after a while he will try to worm his way back into my life. This time he will probably try in less than a month because he has no one.
On a good note I have lost down to 146#, my goal was 135# but I am going to try to get down to 128# instead. I am a small to medium bone person at 5'4". If I don't get down there by a certain time I won't worry about as long as I am no more than 135#. I look good and I feel good. That HCG diet works well on me.
No Phoenix today IS NOT different.
Why? You aren't accepting your role in things and seeing the actions YOU CAN do to help things.
here they are:
1)intervention and giving of plan B letter to your addicted wh
2)go dark on him or file or whatever, but you no longer enable him. He will have had the intervention and the plan B letter in hand to know what he has to do. LET him choose and go dark in the interim living your life. He must go to a rehab and graduate and get medical clearance THEN seek out Dr. Harley for help with his issues and cheating but only after that. We'll see in time what he's made of. But right now, he's an addicted wayward made of cr!p.
3)You seek IC to find out what is really going on in your life. I see lots of emotional swings in your posts and also the fact you enabled an alcoholic by drinking WITH him is something that needs to be dealt with. I think you need some IC to give you the support to move forward without him, or later with him.
Weight, feeling good, crying, are all temporary things that do not fix what is really broken, and that is your inside and your heart. You must become proactive on getting you fixed. If not, no matter what the scale says, you won't FEEL good ok?
Peachy, I do see an IC now. I have never taken my H home with me and I did not realize my H was drunk that night until later. I have gone dark now and refuse to have any contact with him. My H can continue to do what he wants as long as he leaves me out of it. This is wy I am filing for divorce. I can no longer continue with things as they are. I like and love myself and I let myself be drawn in by my H. It won't happen again. I have lost weight for myself and for no one else.
I am not perfect and I am trying. I pray and talk to God on a daily basis. I know that is why I haven't lost it. My IC says that I should divorce my H and if later on I want to get back with him if/when he straightens up then that would be ok. Don't think that will ever happen. I already have it in my mind that I will never see my H again except in court for the finalization of our marriage. His loss not mine. I will survive and thrive an he will just sink lower and lower never to recover. I guess that is the best revenge, do nothing at all and let him totally destroy himself.
Well you know I am in the same camp as peachy on this. I also don't think the revenge gig is gonna work for you in the long run. Maybe you didn't mean that and were just venting.
What I see in every post is you know all about him and what he is doing. So if you get the D, is that going to stop, for your own good?
I don't want revenge, I was just saying that I don't have to do anything to him even if I wanted revenge. He is doing it all to himself. I went months without knowing what was going on in his life, it has just been in the last 2 months that I found out what has been going on. I had only seen him 3 times in 5 months and that was just briefly for legal issues. I do admit that I have seen him alot the last couple of weeks and I do know that I need to stay away from him in all things. I will make sure I don't hear anything about him. I am going to take extra precautions and I will continue to come here to get advice and to be fussed at, because you guys are all right.
..But you see, Phoenix you cannot change somebody else, only sadly enable them and or possibly slide further down WITH them. He has to want out of his hell. You can't pull him out. All you can do is encourage and pray but NOT ENABLE (fine line there)...
Its that fine line. I am looking forward to you removing yourself from his crap he is allowing to mess himself up and dragging you down with.
I Know, as I stubbornly stayed with my Alc WW and said to all around, "You just don't understand her like I do..." I think the kids were my reason/excuse for not getting a restraining order, and I am still dealing with my emotional entrenchment and justification. I know I crossed a line where I let her drag me down, where I let myself slip some into the darkness, it took time but it drew me in, even after years of avoiding it, after leaving once for a different life when I saw how much Bull it was years ago.
Its at those times we are trying to help strengthen you.. I was also very surprised by the drink at the bar and his time with you when you slept on the couch, but maybe I shouldn't be because I know how it is when you don't want to give up.
Talk to your IC about alanon, its about the families of alcoholics. Find a charter member book about them, study the studys about how the addiction issues can effect the family. If you go to meetings you will find all kinds of people going through all kinds of different stages. These are not meetings for addicts, these are meetings for the victims.
You work in health care is that right? There are resources all around you.
Happy Moms day if I haven't said it yet
I don't want revenge, I was just saying that I don't have to do anything to him even if I wanted revenge. He is doing it all to himself. I went months without knowing what was going on in his life, it has just been in the last 2 months that I found out what has been going on. I had only seen him 3 times in 5 months and that was just briefly for legal issues. I do admit that I have seen him alot the last couple of weeks and I do know that I need to stay away from him in all things. I will make sure I don't hear anything about him. I am going to take extra precautions and I will continue to come here to get advice and to be fussed at, because you guys are all right.
I agree, we are alright..
Ok well glad you are getting away from his mess, and hope you can get far away from all the painful connections.
When I said all right I meant correct but you are alright too. I can't to see what the future brings for me.
Looking forward to going to my parents' house this month and going to a Cajun Fest. I know it is about a 7 1/2 hr drive but I always enjoy the drive. It is so peaceful for me with no one to bother me. It is just me and my little Boston Terrier. At least my parents will let me relax and enjoy myself and my cell phone doesn't work too well out there. My Dad has already planned a day of horseback riding for us. My Mom loves to shop and this will give her an excuse to buy me some clothes because most of my clothes are too big. I'll just have to limit how much she buys/spends.
Sounds like a great time. Missed phone calls..kinda like the corona commercial when he skips the phone like a rock on the ocean..lol
What could be more fun than a horse back ride, on a trail hopefully with well behaved horses.. but still for me it would be nostalgic because of how much I rode as a child, no matter how they behaved.
Mom taking you out to buy clothes, the remote location, being home and recharging your batterys. Awesome!
I was thinking about something and I wonder if you can relate PR. Do you think maybe it is time to stop trying to fix what we can't? My 20 year old was here the other night, and in a moment of compassion towards me, he said, "Its ok Dad, you can take care of yourself now, you have done enough service for others"
Of course taking care of myself is probably the best service to others I could ever do anyways, but he was talking about the balance.
But in my own insecurity and wanting to help make the world a better place, for myself if I am honest, have I left out God and his peace in my equation? How much have I taken on that I never had control of anyway?
It doesn't matter why I did right now, because I wont see the reason anyways as long as I am in the midst of my own deception. Whats important is to trust and let it go, and let God deal with all of it.
Including me and my inner peace that things will be alright because He is allways watching over me, even when I am asleep.
Going away on this trip sounds like a great place to calm your spirit, put it all behind you for a spell.
I think I need to practice meditation and controlling the thoughts in my mind by letting them go. I used to know how to do this, but I have let myself get soft and lazy. Sometimes letting go is the most responsible work you can do.
PR,
I hope you have a good relaxing time away and enjoyed your Mother's Day...cue us in on how things are going for you when you get back, okay?
I don't want revenge, I was just saying that I don't have to do anything to him even if I wanted revenge. He is doing it all to himself. I went months without knowing what was going on in his life, it has just been in the last 2 months that I found out what has been going on. I had only seen him 3 times in 5 months and that was just briefly for legal issues. I do admit that I have seen him alot the last couple of weeks and I do know that I need to stay away from him in all things. I will make sure I don't hear anything about him. I am going to take extra precautions and I will continue to come here to get advice and to be fussed at, because you guys are all right.
This post strikes me the most as to what I wanted to see happen for you, maybe because of my own history with my alc WW. Let me assume something for the sake of argument. That you are a caregiver type of person, and one that believes that everyone can change, and that what you do might have something to do with them changing.
Personal accoutability to God aside, and loving them as God would have us, does not mean they will reciprocate that love. Love is a free will action, and depends on thier ability to love, and thier accountability to love. You can only be an example to them as a free relationship with love and self-respect, you can't hope that what you do will mean anything to someone messed up as WH.
As much as you see/saw in him and want to help, the best thing is to let him go and let God deal with him. I was gone for two years, and thought I could still bring about change in my WW if I returned to the marriage, but I too still had that blind spot. If he doesn't get his "come to Jesus" moment all by himself, and get treatment for his drinking, no matter how he looks and behaves on the outside, he will not get better. Take from me, I made the mistake of returning and forgiving, and putting on that yoke again. The problems were just masked and they came back out years later, and I am still getting over the guilt for my arrogance.
He is an alcoholic, and he will be for life, once this sickness and escape mechanism gets ahold of you, regaurdless of why, it has you and you have to get help to maintain sobriety. He has chosen drink over reality, you didn't do it for him, he chose it, and you can't help him with that choice, ever.
I agree with your IC, and that maybe in the far distant future you can have some form of relationship, but I surely hope you will set the bar high, and wonder if you realize why you were drawn back even for that one night, into thinking you wanted to be around him.
I am worried about you, you are a hard working responsible giver of a woman. willing to lay down your life for others, much like me at one time in the past. But I ignored what others said about alcoholics, and though I was strong enough and could prove that my love was valuable to someone who also latched onto me exploiting my good nature.
In the end it proved that it was my weakness to allow such behavior towards me, and such lack of respect for my weak humanity, and value within myself. You can play savior to others, and help them repent, but you are setting yourself up for failure, once you cross that line into accepting such treatment in a marriage.
Thats is probably the best I can do to explain the differance between loving someone and enabling them to such a strong and willing person as yourself. Hoping I reached you, and you can work on letting go of Him and trusting God again for your future. Remember to look for the fruit of the spirit, and don't eat from the bad trees that produce the bad fruit. As much as you may want to tame this guy, all you are doing is allowing him to stay one of Gods Brats, let him get his time in the woodshed, he needs it.
Don't know why I am obbsessed with your story, I just see so much determination in you to make things right, and you are no quitter either. Just remember to see him for who he really is, and what he does is that exactly. I beleive that with God there is no marriage at any cost, and he takes matters in his own hands when we allow people to hurt his people, including ourselves. It happened to me too. Make me think of the scripture. "Obedience not sacrifice" It can be tricky when we love someone and have sacrificed much of our life for them, but doesn't God want us to maintain our relationship with Him first, and love ourselves as He loves us?
Lets not let anyone into our lives that doesn't do that also and we can agree with huh?
What are you doing Phoenix, though to HEAL yourself? The trip is a great idea and what you need. That's great.
But what are you actively doing? Are you going to go get an IC for personal recovery? Are you going to give the wh the plan B letter and divorce papers and let that go *unless he is willing to carry the heavy load and do the hard work of successfull rehab and then therapy with Dr. Harley*?
YOU invest in yourself right now! That's what you need! that and some new clothes and hug that boston! (I've got one too)
Hi Phoenix
have fun on your trip.
God will take care of your WH, not you.
You have to do nothing, WH is destroying himself on his own.
It is very possible he will be able to carry on in this limbo for a # of years till something will shock him and he will finally hit rock bottom.
There is no way to tell when and if he and all the WH like him will hit rock bottom.
But that is the only way they will come to terms with themselves and change.
Pain is the greatest teacher and most of the time people have to go thru an great amount of pain to awaken and ask forgiveness and truly walk a different path.
Till then is just a show, and they temporary chance of behavior just...temporary.
How much pain do you want to endure for this guy?
In my case the pain was so great that started to impact my health. The doctors have told me clearly to let WH go otherwise it will destroy me and my health.
Think of you and only you. Get into this habit for a while.
Have fun and relax
blessing
How are things going, Phoenix? Hopefully you're completely dark, and refusing to carry around even an ounce of WH's garbage. It's not yours, you didn't make it, it's not your job to clean it up.
The litmus test for taking back any wayward is their actions. Words are never enough. Their actions, over time, need to consistently demonstrate that they are a changed person.
In the meantime, you need to become a person who does not make excuses, e.g. "I didn't know he was drunk till later," instead of the very obvious you KNEW he was drinkING.
I know you're capable of laying aside all excuses, whether for yourself or other, and owning up to your own errors in thinking. After all, the first step to changing anything is to recognize it.
Amen Neak
How are you PR?
I am back just to give everyone an update. I had a blast at the Cajun Fest. While I was gone my H drank the whole time and constantly text me telling he wanted me back home. I cme home on the day I said I would.
H didn't drink for a couple of days and the day before I was to return to work I got sick on some strawberry puree used in a drink. H was worried about me and made me stay the night so he could keep an eye on me. Unfortunately he had been drinking again but had stopped about 7PM that night. He kept waking me up to check on me and the last time I saw him was 0230. At 0315 I got up worried about him and found him unconscious on the floor. I got him up and he couldn't talk, he couldn't focus on me, he could not even sit up, and he had peed on himself. I thought he had had a stroke. I called in sick to work and called an ambulance. I was so glad that I did not panic. I did assess him though. My nursing training kicked in. H was so confused but his CT was negative for a stroke. Neurologist said H had an alcohol induced seizure. He was in the hospital for 3 days. During that time he was in 4 point restraint and held down by 6 people, one of them me and one of them being a doctor. H doesn't remember anything.
Day after H got out his brother told him that he had the world by the a$$ and that he f----d it up. Brother-in-law chewed him out then called me to talk.
I convinced my H to go to Idaho to see his family and he left June 9th and has never returned. He has hurt both of his daughters and our youngest is now pregnant with our first grandchild. H has decided to run away from home. Our daughters want nothing to do with him and they call him a user which he is and what is the problen isthat he didn't use to be that way. Right now H is trying to create a new life and is trying to start a new family with his 30yr old son and his daughter. Funny thing is is that he has had nothing to do with his son for 30yrs. Also H is now having an affair with his sister's sister-in-law. And she is divorced with 5 kids. She is also fat, ugly and uneducated. I know that this is not about me but about him. H has no job, no driver's license and no prospects. The town he lives in has 3800 people in it and he has to live with his brother and his wife. His whole family is just enabling him. H is still drinking heavily and smoking heavily and it is taking a toll on him. My H use to look younger than he was and was good looking and now he looks a lot older than his age. I know that eventually he will screw up royally and make a lot of people very mad. He is on a very self-destructive path, at least his family will have to take care of it now.
Don't worry about me, I am doing fine. I am filing for divorce in January. That is when the the new hospital group will be taking over my hospital and they are cashing in our sick days and our vacation days and I will have a very large check coming to me. I will be able to pay my bills off, get a divorce and have money left over for school. I'm also planning on redoing my bedroom floors and redecorating the house. I have also cut my hair off and dyed it a mahogany color and I look HOT! Planning on going to our annual Halloween party on Oct 22, so I'm not just sitting here doing nothing. I am doing things and making plans for the future. My H loss not mine.
I'm not going to lie, I still love him and I do still pray for him but I'm going on with my life and divorcing him will the best thing I can do for me.
I have also cut my hair off and dyed it a mahogany color and I look HOT! Planning on going to our annual Halloween party on Oct 22, so I'm not just sitting here doing nothing. I am doing things and making plans for the future. My H loss not mine.
You go, girlfriend!
It's the better part of wisdom to know that it's time to step away from the madness.
You'll be fine. Your WH, on the other hand...
I am super gad to hear that you are doing well, even if your WH decided to flush himself further down the toilet.
It's also nice that you are taking care of yourself. Just remember not to start dating until after the D. With you looking HOT, you are bound to get men hitting on you.
I have been going out with friends, getting pedicures and manicures, spending time with my daughters, going to movies, and just doing whatever I feel like doing. This weekend I felt like doing nothing and that is just what I did-nothing.
I do feel bad for my daughters because they feel like their dad has deserted them and he has. My DD 21, the one who is pregnant, told her dad that as soon as she got rid of his stuff that she was done with him. He has hurt her so much. H 30 yr old son, who he has had nothing to do with, is married and his wife is pregnant and due in Dec and my H is so excited and wants to be there for the birth, but he doesn't even talk about DD21's pregnancy. DD21 forced him to on facebook but he doesn't even mention it anymore. She can't even stand her brother and says he isn't her brother and he is *edit*, and he is, and that his wife is even bigger *edit*, which she is. What is funny, is that H son has a father/dad and it isn't my H. My H is just a sperm donor. My H is just screwing himself. In the end he will have no one. The reason I say this is that he has lost his daughters, his son is only around because he wants something from my H but doesn't realize that my H has nothing, and he is going to do something stupid in that small town he lives in and make a lot of people mad. Oh, well.
I guess your WH's bottom was a lot further down than all of us realized.
I agree. You would think that losing 2 jobs, getting a DUI, losing his family, not having a job, no money, and no driver's license he would have hit rock bottom. He even has become an alcoholic and had an alcohol induced seizure. He has to live with his family and rely on them for everything. Actually, I'm surprised he can find a woman who would have him. He is almost 49 yrs old with nothing and no prospects. She must be pretty ugly and very hard up. Actually, I have seen a picture of her and she is not attractive, fat and no education and living in an area that has only 3800 people in it, I guess she is pretty hard up. She can have him.
Phoenix thanks for checking in.
Part of your true recovery will be actively involved in Alnon especially your daughters.
Your WH like mine is dual addicted to the A and the bottle. As long as he is with both there will be no change.
Work on yourself and take the tough love approach. You can't save him only yourself.
I have no contact with my H at all since he decided to stay in Idaho. He doesn't contact me and I just leave him alone. I am pretty content with my life as it is. There is no drama and I like it that way. Just taking care of me. And what is great is that at the beginning of the year I will only have a house payment to make and hopefully I'll be divorced by the time I turn 47 on March 6th. I don't want the divorce but I have no choice anymore. I am not even going to tell my H I am doing it, he will find out when he gets served the papers in Idaho.
Good to hear you are healing and doing what you can for the DDs
I agree on the Alanon counseling also for them. The damage goes deep.
Take good care of yourself and get lots of support, you have ben through a lot.
I have been talking to my parents over the last several days. My parents are glad that I am finally going to divorce my H but wish that I didn't have to. After the divorce is final my parents are going to deed me their house and property so that if anything happens I will already have it. My father says that my H will be back soon but I don't think so. My father said, "oh, yes he will." I hate it when my Dad says things like this because he is never wrong. I hope he is wrong this time.
This year has been pretty tough for my family. I have lost 2 cousins in the past 4 months and I have an uncle who needs a heart transplant and if he doesn'tget it by his 60th birthday in December he won't be eligible anymore because he lives in Scotland and that is the cutoff for them there. I know that when he dies that my aunt will probably die soon after. She will just give up the will to live because she will have no one else since my cousin committed suicide about 10 yrs ago.
Youngest daughter has cut off all contact with her father now. I wish she wouldn't but she is tired of her father and his drama and his using everyone. She is wondering who will buy him a ticket home when everyone gets tired of him in Idaho. I actually had to laugh at that one.
Alnon? are you attending??? Your whole family will benefit from this. His alcoholism is making the family sic.
..Youngest daughter has cut off all contact with her father now. I wish she wouldn't but she is tired of her father and his drama and his using everyone. She is wondering who will buy him a ticket home when everyone gets tired of him in Idaho. I actually had to laugh at that one.
Of course you might have figured by now, that one of my concerns was for your DD, because honestly, protecting the children is protecting you. I am sure you see, that DDs bouncing loyalies during this, that have hurt you, are just on the surface of what she will need to be safe in her long life.
Now you might not feel that you need alanon, because you have performed so well, keeping all these plates spinning and held the roof on the house and family so well, but all this hero acting although very admirable,(I admire your strength and conviction I really do), but DD could use some understanding, for herself, so she can heal balanced.
Proverbs 3:13-15
King James Version (KJV)
13 Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. Of course this is for you also, and there are a multitude of wise counselors at Alanon meetings, who you can share with also, as you put this part of your life behind you.
Do not be afraid.
My DD21 has made an appointment to see a counselor to help her through this. I suggested it and she finally listened. She is suffering from depression but is not able to go on meds at the moment because of her pregnancy. I am hoping that there is something she can go on while pregnant. She is about 16 weeks along now. I worry about my daughters right now.
Got a call thais past Sunday from a man who asked me if so and so was my husband and I said yes. Was informed that my husband was shacked up with his wife in her trailer. She left him 3 months ago for my husband. thsi is the second marriage not including ours that he has helped destroy. Told man that i was sorry but not surprised. This man has the means and money to destroy them both and since they are in Idaho it is a felony to commit adultery and her husband is usong that against her i the divorce now plus the fact she embezzled from his company. She will now have nothing and since my husband has nothingbut unpaid overdue bills their fantasy will be crashing down around them real soon. I am filing for divorce too. Found out that she has expensive tastes and now has to sell everything she owns. She only makes $32,000/yr as a teacher and my husband really has no job and smokes like chimney and drinks like a fish and she is now trying to keep up with him. Told H that if he wanted his clothes for winter to ask his new girlfriend to by him some. Been in contact with new OW husband and have been trying to help him. I feel for him and understand how he feels. He wants a divorce and he is going to force into onewhere he gets what he wants because of the adultery and embezzlement. She will get nothing. He knows that maybe later on down the road they can get back together. I told him about this website and SAA. Talking to him made me feel better but I will still be honest with you and myself that I still love my husband and am not ready for another relationship especially with someone who is going through the sae thing I have been going through.
sorry to hear this, but as you say not toally shocked. Waywards can be nuts.
I would be very careful with OWH. You are both BSs who are still legally married. It can be very easy to get ENs met by someone who is themself lacking. I would hate for you to become a wayward yourself.
Take care of yourself and those DDs. When are you going to become a gamma? That baby will bring such joy into your life. You need it.
No one faults you for not even thinking about dating(especially since you are still married) and that you don't think you will be for some time. Every BS should give themselves time to heal before they date. Although not having ENs met sure does suck, especially having being used to most of them being met for many years by our WSs.
Have you picked up any new hobbies? How about knitting, since you have a little one coming that you can make things for. Take care.
Hi Phoenix,
Check in here and there and saw your post. I have been D for almost 2 years and do not date. I am rebuilding my life but not over XH.
I have my DDs and good friends. I could date if I wanted to but I am NI - Not Interested and not sure if I will ever be.
It is fine as long as you are happy with that decision and enjoying your life. Just keep putting one foot in front of each other and day by day. Blessings
You are suffering the greater pain of being betrayed, and you will end up with a far better life in the long run.
Look what WH has to look forward to, and your life is going to be awesome whether your M recovers or not!
"Sin in it's ordinary progression first deceives, next hardens, and then destroys." - John Thornton
1.
Deception.
We talk about wayward "fog", which is verbal expression of the self deception that goes on in a wayward mind. Deception which allows a so called "normal" person to commit adultery. "The enemy" is the ultimate liar. What deception does is this, deception makes swallowing a deadly poison seem like a desirable choice. This is the point in adultery where the waywards telling themselves lies might be shocked into reality by exposure. perhaps not, but it is possible. Truth & light are kryptonite to the deception. I am talking about the wayward losing his/her mind.
2.
Hardening.
Now, about the wayward's heart. It hardens. The wayward heart becomes callous. The wayward heart becomes closed off and insensitive to the pain and devastation their adultery causes. The wayward can even accept the broken hearts of their own children if that pain supports their adultery. The wayward becomes impervious to empathy. Cry all you want, your tears have no meaning for the hardened heart of a lost wayward. Your tears, your pain only annoy the hardened wayward heart.
3.
Destruction.
And finally, the wayward's soul. The sin of adultery destroys the wayward's soul. The spiritual essence of humanity is nowhere to be found in the wayward. Integrity has been cast off in order for the adultery to continue. The wayward does not go on his/her merry way unscathed. The wayward is the most wounded of all. The destruction of a once beautiful soul, now made ugly by sin, is heartbreaking.
There is a progression to this loss.
Humans are vulnerable to temptation.
Temptation feels good.
But, giving into the sin, and living in the sin is life changing.
Soul changing.
We can actually SEE it sometimes.
We can actually SEE the cold eyes of the hardened heart.
We can actually SEE the lifeless eyes of the soulless.
All we can do is pray for your WH.
He is dead, in a sense.
You, on the other hand, are growing with every challenge.
Reaching higher. Seeking to rise, not sink.
Working to elevate yourself and those you love.
You can choose to be at peace.
Your WH is at war with himself.
Don't worry about me and the OWH because I have no interest in being with anyone nor do I think I will. Kind of hard to get your EN met when there is about 2000 miles between you. He still loves his wife but is going to divorce her with the thought of maybe getting back together later. They have 6 kids and 10 grandkids together. Right now he is hurting and so mad he doesn't know what to do. But he has let me know that when his lawyers are through with her she won't have a bucket to pee in. She is use to doing a lot of things and going to other countries and she has expensive tastes. Now she will have to support herself and my H on her $32,000/yr salary. I really and truely give it less than 6 months. Especially since she is trying to sell all her stuff to support herself and my WH. I think that this is great because she will start to resent my WH and blame him for everything.
Today is my WH 49th birthday and he won't be getting anything from me or our DD's.
DD21 is going to have a baby girl March 16th which will be 10 days after my 47th birthday. WH won't be here for it and DD21 doesn't care. She says her father is a loser and a user and hopes things continue to go bad for him. She and her sister looked the new OW up on facebook and said she is an ugly little troll and looks like a pig and that their father keeps getting them uglier and uglier. Must be getting desperate at his age and nothing to his name. That is them talking not me but they are right.
DD23 who will be 24 next month is going to get married next year and move away. So I will be alone. After the divorce and everything I will be sitting pretty financially and hopefully I'll be able to finally get a new vehicle this time next year. I will be getting either a Boxer or a Rottweiler puppy to go with my Boston Terrier. I'll need something that will scare off intruders. They'll just be big pets and nothing else but no one will know this.
Went to a Halloween party on Oct 22nd and had a blast. DD21 was my DD since she couldn't drink. I went as the Dark Queen of Hearts with a little black top hat and all. Looked great!
Pepper, you are so right. My WH was a good man and now I don't even recognize the person he use to be. I do pray for him and his soul daily. Someone has to. I also pray that he and our DD's reconcile but for that to happen he would have to quit what he is doing.
I'd say rottweiler. People more often equate rotts with "Omg I shouldn't rob this place it'll eat me alive!"
Yeah , I had one years ago and the worse thing he would do was lick you. He was worthless as a guard dog but no one knew that because of his size and his bark. He was a lover not a fighter.
I still miss him and he died 11 years ago. His name was Beau and he was beautiful and sweet.
You know, I am actually going to encourage my WH to marry this woman knowing that he won't and even if he does he will live to regret it. I am past it all even if I do love him. I want him to get what he wants and I want him to choke on it. I'll be okay. I have survived this long and I will survive long after he is permanently gone.
I had a Rott when I was very small. She was a loving dog...
But she could be quite fierce if she perceived any threat.
Don't worry about his getting what he wants and choking on it. It'll happen.
I once was bit by a Rott who was protecting her owner.
Just walking by, minding my own business and it was getting a bath, unleashed in its front yard.
Ow.
Don't you dare encourage him PhoenixRising......let him do what he wants and focus on you. You. You.
You.
yeah, I know I shouldn't encourage it. Actually, I am having nothing to do with him. I haven't contact him unless he contacts me. He threatened me when I told him I was divorcing him. He said I ddn't know that he could afford a divorce lawyer and I know that he can't even afford to pay his bills and he couldn't afford to send me $50 to pay for his clothes to be mailed to me. He is so pathetic. He keeps forgettting that my Dad would pay for my divorce and he has more money than my WH could ever come up with and that includes his family. My father has more money than he knows what to do with and this time I will take advantage of it. My father would love to teach my WH a leasson.
Have your dad find a guy who lost everything in a divorce and ask who his ex's lawyer was.
Then have him hire them.
Yay for Daddy!
He's the man!
You're so lucky to have a dad like that.
Actually, I am having nothing to do with him.
Stay strong, Phoenix. Your WH is just a man. He's one person who is on a destructive path. Let him make his own mistakes. You will finally get it -- that he's on his own, and you will feel the weight of the world off your shoulders. You will stop caring. And when you do... really, really stop caring...the energy shifts. You laugh again. Your senses work again. You are "you" again. And wiser than ever before.
So try... really try to detach. Time for you to RISE!!!
One thing I forgot to mention. WH doesn't have any winter clothes in Idaho and it has been below freezing there a lot lately and is suppose to be snowing. Poor thing! NOT!!!! Hope he freezes you know what off. He is spitting mad that he cannot get his clothes. Can't help it, he should have stayed in Florida and worked on his marriage and then he would have been warm and toasty. Now don't care what happens. Do want to know when everything goes bad so I can cheer it on though.
Not to TJ, but I didn't know Idaho could GET that cold...
Idaho is cold for at least 1/2 the year. I've seen it start snowing at the end of September and still be be snowing in April. Shoot this June it was in the 40's at night and in the morning. It would get up in the 80's and 90's during the day this past summer. It has been below freezing there at noght for a couple of weeks now. It is below freezing now.
Sounds like my kind of place. I prefer cold weather...
Snow! I haven't seen a good snow for more than a year...
Okay, I've TJ'ed enough, I apologize.
Hey, I don't really mind cold weather but that is way too cold and for way too long. My Dad said that my WH would be back this winter because of the cold and the snow since he hasn't lived in it for over 25yrs. Personally I think he will dig his heels in and stay no matter how miserable he is there. And believe me I know he will be miserable.
Oh of course. If he didn't, that would be admitting he was wrong, and he can't do that!
Talked to DD21 tonight and she called from her cell phone. I said, I see your dad turned your phone back on." She told the only reason he did this was to chew her out because she blocked him on the computer. They got into it today and she chewed him a new one. He was so ugly to her and called her the most horrible names. He called her a user and she informed him that he was the user and that he used her and her friend to live off of because he spent all his money on cigarettes and booze and that he used me and now he was using his new whore to live. She proceeded to tell him that he would never find another woman as good as me who treat him as good as I did and put up with the crap that I put up with and that I was way too good for him. He agreed with her and said I put up with him way too long. It makes me so sad that he has totally destroyed his relationship with his daughter. DD21 says that she thinks WH is finally starting realize what he has done and she doesn't care. As a matter of fact she said if he dies she isn't going to his funeral because if she did she would spit on his grave. I told her no sh wouldn't and that I knew that he had hurt her and that she was angry for what he had to to all of us and what he was doing now. I know she feels he has run away and abandoned us. Both of the girls feel this way.
Still praying.
Sounds about how my Sister felt/feels about my Dad, although after 30 years after the divorce from my Mom, she has come to an understanding and just plain sadness at his mental and emotional condition.
Like I said before, Mom is doing great, and my Dad is sick in a nursing home. Mom is 81 and Dad is 78.
Hope you find peace PR
Dd21 should get her own phone. She is three years past age of majority. She does not have to stay mired in daddy's bs, does she realize this??
It has been hard for because she has no credit and is trying to build it up. Plus the contract isn't up yet but she is going to take the phone she has and get a month to month line for herself. I'm going to do the same. Oh, DD21 just pays me for phone and always has since she was 16. We are all getting our own lines and sticking him with the phone bill since he is being an a$$.
She's better off keeping the "plan" phone like she is doing than buying one specifically for month to month. I did that and the battery went bad within 6 months.
Or get a Tracfone type thing that has prepaid minutes.
"Sticking it to him" is just another way of saying "keeping yourselves mired in his drama".
Wow, it has been 2 days and I've heard nothing from WH. Neither has DD21 and it has been nice. Refuse to answer andy of his texts anyway so that may have helped in my case. I think my DD21 standing up to him like she did and giving it to him both barrels has helped her. From what she said, he left her alone without another word. He hasn't even text DD23 because she would have said something.
My friends don't think I will divorce WH. I am going to because I can't deal with what he is doing and after the nasty things he said to our daughter there is no way I can take him back. WH has totally lost it. DD21 is making sure that her uncle knows what WH is saying so I hope that his family in Idaho knows what he is really like. I know that blood is thicker than water but I can't believe that they would tolerate anything he would say to his daughter that is so ugly and horrible, especially his sisters and mother. They would never and have never talked to their children like that no matter how angry they have been at them. Right now I really don't care what happens to my WH but I bet that karma is going to bite him in the butt soon.
Still praying.
Have you or the DDs gone to Alanon for help?
I forgot if you addressed this
I go to individual therapy. Neither of my daughters are in any kind of therapy. I'm actually doing well despite everything that is going on. With WH not here any more we are all doing fine. WH has finally realized he has no control over us anymore. It has become a relief this past 2 days to realize that I am finally getting a divorce. I have lined up my lawyer and everything. I just want to be left alone.
Talked to my parents last night and discussed me moving to Tennessee next year. Just want everything over and achance to start over and I am actually looking forward to it. I won't move until next summer. By then both daughters will have moved out of state and my first grandchild will have been born. I plan on taking 2-3 months off from work and then get a job in Nashville. That is only about 1-1 1/2 hrs from my parents. It is definitely going to be an adventure starting over from scratch at age 47. At least as an RN I'll be able to get a job without any problem.
If it wasn't for my faith in God I don't think I would be as well as I am now. Talking to Him has been a great comfort to me.
Still praying.
Today I got a nice refund check and I really needed it. It will help me out a lot. I will be able to catch up on everything. It has been so nice lately. It is quiet and calm here and the girls and I are doing well. Everything is blocked so that helps with the peace and quiet.
I am going to be busy the next 2 days. I have and appointment with my therapist tomorrow and my regular doctor. I am going to have to try sleeping pills again so I can get some sleep. Still don't sleep much and it has gotten worse lately. Will not go on anti-depressants again. Have to get a new tire for my car tomorrow and then on Thursday I am getting my hair done. It has been a long time snce I've had it done and I need to do something for me.
Dropping husband off my insurance this month. We drop/add every November at our hospital unless there is a major change like marriage/divorce/death/birth. That will save me about $97/2 weeks. I am also going to stop paying into my tax shelter annuity for the next year. I'll restart again next year. Right now I need the money in my check. This time next year I'll be better off financially. I'll get enough extra in my paycheck to pay all my utilities. This feels like a small load is off my shoulders. At the beginning of the year I should get a large check that is 50% of what my sick days are worth and I have been at the hospital 16 1/2 yrs and I haven't used any days. We are getting taken over by another institution. It is a shame that this is happening but on the other hand I really could use the money. I'll be able to pay all my bills off except the house.
Still praying.
It's weird how things just seem to fall in place. When you need money, it arrives. I truly believe that when you are where you are suppose to be, doing what you are suppose to be doing, that God takes care of you!
So keep doing what you are suppose to be doing. Being a great mom and nurse and woman and friend. WH is on dangerous ground. Best to stay away from him. If he and my WH find the light some day -- then Amen to that. They KNOW they are wrong -- but until they see it and really, really FEEL it, it won't matter.
Congrats on the income. And of course, you deserve some pampering BEYOND a haircut. Buy something special for YOU!!
Yeah--get a couple of late Christmas presents.
Still staying away from WH and he has left both me and our daughters alone. We all spent time together and watched the movie "Thor" last night and making girlie comments about the actor. DD23 was diappointed that Thor didn't go around shirtless more. Had fun.
Went to my therapist and my MD yesterday. Therapist says that I am doing fine and that I really don't want to get even or hate my WH because that would eat me up and make me miserable and then I wouldn't be the good person I am now. And if I tried to really understand why things happened then I would be just as warped and sick as my WH. My therapist told me to keep doing what I am doing and that I will be fine and that I wouldn't have any guilt and could continue on with my life but that my WH was continuing to spiral out of control and eventually he would explode.
Got ambien for sleep and xanax to help relax when and if WH tries to get hold of and get me so upset that I can't stand it. If the regular ambien doesn't help me then he will try ambien CR or something else. I mainly need the ambien the night before I work. I can handle less sleep if I don't have to work the next day, I am just tired of getting 2-4 hrs of sleep and having to work the next day.
Going to get my hair done today and I am so looking forward to it. Bought myself a new skirt and blouse yesterday for Church and some new makeup. At least the clothes were on sale. Caught up on my bills so far and got a new tire for my car(I was still on my spare). I do feel better today.
Heard from OWH last night. I felt so bad for him. He was crying on the phone and wants her back so bad. Told him to come here and to get SAA. She has got people believing her. I don't know what she is saying about her H or her marriage and I didn't ask. Some of the their kids have called her and chewed her out. Told OWH that it is just a fantasy and to leave them alone in their own little world and eventually reality would come crashing down on them. But I did emphasize that he need to come here and get SAA. He did remember Dr. Harley's name so he has been listening to me. Told him that I didn't have the answers but since she didn't have any money and that my WH definitely had less than no money that it would put a serious strain on their relationship. I did mention plan A and plan B but I think he is way past plan A. He needs to stay out of that drama that my WH and she are having. Told him he needed to heal and to help himself.
Still praying.
Wise therapist
It reminds me of the scripture
"They judged themselves, by themselves, and became unwise"
Aliens are lost, and trying to understand thier world, is a waste of time
OWH is turning to you for comfort, support, solace.
(That doesn't mean don't direct him to MB resources, but it does mean be very, VERY careful.
You are not the one who can help him.)
It's pretty sad watching people self-destruct like your WH. Sometimes there's nothing you can do but just let them fall.
Good luck moving on to a better life for you and your DDs.
I would like him to come here where he could get help because I am the last one to give advice to anyone. Also, I have told him that he needs to see a therapist. His family is trying to get him to see one also. I just feel bad for him, he has lost so much thanks to his WW and my WH. Hoping that she sees the light and drops my sorry WH like a hot potato and goes home.
Still praying.
Haven't heard from WH in about 2 weeks and it ahs been nice and relaxing. Have been able to sleep 7hrs a night with the ambien. Didn't take any last night because I am off and had a little trouble falling asleep and staying asleep but I am off today.
DD21 hasn't heard from her father either and she is ok with that. Funny thing is that when he did things to spite us it didn't work all he did was make sure he couldn't keep an eye on us. And I know he did because of the comments he would make.
OW#2 husband has filed charges of adultery on his wife and my WH. Guess I'll find out later how things turn out.
DD21 will be moving back in with me soon because her boyfriend is being deployed to the middle east for 6 months soon. She is so upset because he won't be here for their daughter's birth. I'm hoping that this will have them getting married sooner.
DD23 will be getting married in January and not long after that her husband will be leaving to where he is suppose to go and he is going ahead of her to get their housing set up so she won't have to stay in a hotel room for weeks with the cat and the dog. They are hoping to go to Germany.
Still praying.
My son is in Vilseck Germany.
I was stationed in Germany for 2 1/2 yrs and loved it. I know that DD23 will love living there especially since they are young and have no children at this time. There is so much to do and see. Plus we have family in Scotland and they can go there to visit. I did severals times and it was fun. DD23 was born in Germany and for years when she was little she swore she could speak German because she was born there. Now she gets a chance to go back there and see where she was born. I am happy for her.
Still praying.
That makes me wonder--she's a dual-citizen since she was born there, right? I'm curious how that works...
Er, sorry, I don't mean to t/j. I'm going to go look it up.
She is not a dual citizen because she was born there. That only works in the USA.
If she had two parents, that were both american citizens, she is a US citizen. Not German.
She would be German though, if she was born there and one of her parents had been rightfully living there for 8 years. And if she does have German and US nationality at the same time, she would have to choose between the two at the age of 18.
The rules must have changed since my uncle was born then. He was born in Germany in the early '70s and I've always been told he had dual citizenship as a result.
Actually, she was born of parents that were stationed overseas. She was also born in a military hospital and that makes it US soil. She has only US citizenship. It was funny that she thought she could speak German though. I could at the time but I haven't used it in over 20 years so I have lost that ability.
Still praying.
I guess the fact that my grandmother was NOT a soldier could have been why my uncle got that status. She probably gave birth in a German hospital, not sure.
Hope DD21's pregnancy will go well.
If you get to visit Vilseck, there are plenty of neat things to do close by. In the town of Weiden,there are crystal factories as well as a Villeroy and Boch factory and outlets. It is also not too far from Prague, a beautiful city. Driving in Prague was crazy. It is full of one-way streets that all seem to leave the city.
Germany is a great assignment for a newly married couple - as long as the unit does not deploy somewhere. Deployments leave the family members a little bit stuck for what seems like a long time.
AM
AM
I hear Germany is also good for bread shops...
And beer and pretzels and bratwurst in fantastic gardens by the riverside... Oh dear, enough from me, I am getting itchy feet again and I promised my family I would stay put for a while!
I loved Germany with all of its history. It seemed that every town had a castle that was in ruins. Loved the crystal factories and the Kris Kringle Marts. Went to one town that had a huge store that was nothing but Christmas year round. There is so much to see and do there all year. Loved driving on the Autobahn. Guess I'll have to go to Germany if they get stationed there. That won't be a hardship for me as I love it there. Also the food there is to die for. You definitely get your moneys worth. Also love the bakeries. You can tell them what you want to eat and a hot beverage and they will take it to you to eat outside. I think I am looking forward to them going over there more than they are because I can go see them!
Still Praying.
I hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving. I did with my 2 daughters and soon to be son-in-law.
Haven't heard anything from my WH in 3 weeks and it has been nice. DD21 hasn't heard anything either and the only thing DD23 has heard from him was when he text her a picture of the snow in Idaho. DD23 doesn't call or text WH unless he does it first and he never calls he just texts. As far as I know WH never text DD23 yesterday.
I wonder if WH ever got any clothes for winter since we never sent him his clothes. He even has some nice sweaters and leather jackets. One of his leather jackets he never wore because it had such a thick heavy lining and he wouldn't wear it here in northwest Florida. It does get below freezing here. Hope it really hurt the OW#2 wallet to have to go buy my WH new clothes and coats/jackets for the winter. From what I understand she is having money issues herself. Nothing ruins a relatonship faster than having to support someone who has nothing and can't contribute to it.
Still praying.
Found out this weekend from DD21 that my WH was kicked out of his brother's home because my WH and my sister-in-law could not get along anymore. They have known each other almost their whole lives. Seems that my WH's drinking and smoking and the way he has been living his life has finally got to his family. They are not happy with him. DD21 said thatshe knows that WH and OW#2 won't last because he is just using her like he has been using everyone else. This just makes me feel warm and fuzzy all inside.
Refresh my memory - are you in Plan B? I had thought you were; not being at all sarcastic, just my memory isn't always what it should be.
If you are in Plan B, then you consistently know waaaaaaay too much about WH and how he's doing, what he's doing, who he's doing it with, and what he's wearing it while he's doing it.
You will feel SO much better if you just let go of all that excess knowledge, block it off completely, and focus on your own life and healing.
The only reason I know what is going on in my WH life at all is that my daughter does talk about him to me from time to time. I have had no contact with him at all for 4 weeks now. I don't ask about him from my daughter but if she wants to talk about him because of how she feels I am not going to cut her off. This is her father and he hurt her too and with her being pregnant she does get a little emotional at times.
Oh by the way I don't know what he is wearing or what he is doing and the the reason I know who he is with is because the OW#2H called me and let me know back in October other than that I know nothing. The only reason I know about him having no clothes is because he was going to Idaho for a visit only and only took a few things and left everything here so he has no winter clothes there in Idaho.
What I am trying very gently to suggest is, even if you have already come by certain information unavoidably, you are using up too much brain space analyzing it.
Plan B is about peace of mind for you. It's about living in the real world, not the crazy one WH tried to drag you into.
While listening to your DD's feelings, it is also important, not only for you but for her and the baby, to steer her thoughts in more positive directions as much as possible. There are many well-documented studies about how stress affects the unborn. The more your DD frets about this terrible situation, the more adrenalin she will pump into her system.
As much as possible, she needs to regulate herself to be peaceful, calm, and happy. Just like you.
Today is my 23 anniversary. Doing just fine. Actually got a text from OW#2 now ex husband this past Monday saying he knows I am having a hard time this week. Took me a while to figure out what he was talking. I had forgotten that my anniversay was coming up. Told him that I was fine and that it was just another day and that I meant it. This is the 3rd anniversary since he left me and I am actually past it. Don't hear from WH and I just leave him alone.
OW#2 now ex husband checks on me from time to time to see how I am doing. Found out from him that their divorce was final before Thanksgiving and he got EVERYTHING! She defaulted because he had evidence that she had embezzled about $30,000 from his company and he told her to either give him everything or she would go to jail. She now has nothing and has a lot of bills. Oh well, that is her fault. He let me know that now all of the kids hate my WH and that his ex talks about drinking all the time. People are so stupid. They destroy their lives and their families for nothing and in the end is never lasts and they end up with nothing but a lot of regrets.
DD21 has now moved back in while her boyfriend goes overseas for 6 months. She is now 31 weeks pregnant and looks good. She has everything she needs except for a crib and a stroller which I am going to buy sometime next month. When DD21's boyfriend returns they are getting married. He is going to be sending her money plus she has access to his account.
Everything here is fine and we are doing just fine.
Isn't it weird how we suddenly get to that "it is what it is" acceptance place? I had my 26th anniversary around Thanksgiving, the 3rd without WH, and we're still not D.
D!ck told DD that he's living with a coworker. Guess Bimbo got sick of his stalling, too. Now she looks like the "victim" who took in this married man, got engaged to him, took him for all he could get his hands on (she probably doesn't tell people this), and had no choice but to send him on his way when his nasty wife kept holding up the D.
Our WHs are so, so stupid and short sited. Comes a time that their house of cards comes tumbling down. And their "go to" rock -- us -- just don't give a damn anymore.
We read about this, yet never see that happening to us. Then it does. Like they say -- if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. Like you -- I'm where I'm suppose to be. In my house. With my kids. Having not lost one person during this ordeal except WH.
WH is alone. Actually, out of the blue, he dropped by to see his Dad last week. Stayed about 5 minutes. Asked about his surgery and checked out the refrigerator like he used to. He's awkward around his own Dad. Just goes to show you the hard work our WH will need to do to just get back the title of a "decent" human being.
I'd hate to be them. They have dug themselves such a deep, deep hole. Like you, we stood by them and would have walked through fire for them during the first few years. But that has passed for me. I will not die for him anymore. I will not.
I am with you all the way, HH. I am finally in a good place right now and things are looking up for me. I have an excellent job making great money and I have my family and friends. My WH has no job except working for his brother and they aren't working right now because of the snow and cold in Idaho. My BIL is a roofer. So WH can't work. WH went from being a good man with a good paying job, a great wife whowould do anything for him and did, a nice home, and beautiful daughters. He now has no money, really no job, no home of his own, and no family(eventhough you have brothers and sisters, your primary family is your wife and children). He has nothing and one day he is going to wake up and realize how stupid he was and I won't be there to pick up the pieces. He even lost all his friends here because of what he did. I know that I am in a lot better place than he is. I have my respect and I actually not only love myself but like myself too. I know you feel the same way about yourself. Our WH are so stupid and I am so glad I am not them because I would have to hate me. I also am glad I don't know what goes on in their minds because I would be just as sick as they are. I like being me.
WH is now getting along with his mom after all these years. He couldn't stand her and always called her all kinds of names. He should remember this when dealing with DD21 because she hates him so much and wants nothing to do with him and he actually deserves it, his mother didn't. If he didn't like the way his mother was then the only person he had to blame was his father because we found out after my WH got caught that his father was a womanizer and used WH and his brother to cover up his affairs. WH didn't know this until he got caught. My MIL finally had it and left him and I think it was because my FIL had either sexually molested my younger SIL or had tried to, she won't say. He had already sexually molested my older SIL. What is so bad is that my WH still thinks a lot of his father who was a piece of crap. By the way, my FIL was killed before I ever came around and my WH has found all this out since we got married.
DD21 is doing better now. She brought all her stuff back a week ago and we both had a good laugh over the fact her dad's stuff made it back home eventhough he didn't. So in the end I got all his stuff anyway!
Just an update. DD21 just gave birth to my 1st grandchild, a little girl, on 3/14/2012. She is just beautiful. My mother has been here for almost 2 weeks now.
DD21 refused to let her father know about the birth and I respected her wishes. If WH knows about the birth he hasn't tried to contact us. I'm betting he does know. I have had no contact with him of any kind for so long that I have no idea the last time I heard from him. It has been nice and quiet.
Isn't that fun, a granddaughter born on Pi Day!
Congratulations on the birth of your grandchild!
Congratulations Grandma! Grandbabies are the BEST!
Congrats Phoenix. Life goes on without him and it's his loss.
Funny, KarmaRose... pi day. And, unfortunately, D!ck's bday, too.
Took my Mom back home last week. DD21 and I drove my Mom back home and the baby was a great traveler. Got back home yesterday. Had fun in Tennessee with my parents.
My Dad got to see his first great granddaughter/grandchild. He had to put her on a horse. My Dad said that the first time he held her he saw WH. She does have his nose but she looks like me and DD21.
Have already made reservations to fly to Tennessee in May for the annual Cajun Fest at my favorite vineyard. I usually drive but this year I am flying. Then I will be going back there again for 2 weeks in July when my cousin and her 2 daughters come over to visit from Scotland.
Will definitely be filing for divorce this May. I will have the money plus I'll have everything paid off except the house. It will finally be over sometime in June. I can't wait.
So glad you had a nice trip.
I've got an update for everyone. I went to the cajun fest in Tennesse in May and now I just back from Tennessee again after being there for 2 weeks with my parents and my cousin with her 2 daughters from Scotland. I had so much fun.
When I got back from Tennessee back on June 1st I went and saw a lawyer. I hired him at a BIG price because he was recommended by a friend whose husband is a lawyer. My lawyer is the best here for divorces. I had asked my H if he wanted a divorce though I don't want one and he told me that maybe I should go ahead since he didn't plan on coming back to Florida. He is so wishy-washy. When I came home I pulled my phone off of his account and got my own account and didn't tell him because I knew he would have a fit and want me to pay for the bill that is paid for one month in advance. While I was in Tennessee this time he text me because he found out and was livid. He was so mean and ugly. i tried to explain that he needed to get the bill adjusted and it would show just him and DD24 on the bill and that I wasn't going to pay it. He threatened to turn the electric off but that didn't work because the electric company was waiting the next day for his call because I put in an application before he called so it stayed on. What was bad was that our DD21 and our 3 1/2 month old granddaughter were in the house. Looks like he lost. He is threatening to go after 1/2 the equity in the house and half of my retirement. Told him to get a lawyer(he doesn't know I have one). H doesn't know that I have all the 1099 from when he cashed in his retirement and from the money he got from the BP oil spill. My lawyer says he owes me half of all that. Plus he has to get a lawyer and contest the divorce and that will cost him a lot more than an uncontested one. He doesn't have the money for an uncontested divorce never mind a contested one. My lawyer thinks that my H will just sign the papers and so does my therapist.
On a good note. My life is very good. I'm going a girls' trip with my friends at work and we are going to go white water rafting down the ocoee river and stay in a large cabin on the same river. We'll be gone for for 4 days next month. Then in October our annual Halloween party. We are having a theme this year and it is "Pimps and Ho's". Haven't decided what to go as, yet. And then the last thing I have planned so far is to go to St. Augustine, FL for 4 days in November.
Hope everyone is doing well.
Good to hear from you, Phoenix. Just have to throw out there that you'd be a lot happier if you never let WH have contact with you at all.
Finally got everything done and filed for divorce on Aug 9th. Summons was sent out on same day. Haven't heard anything yet so don't know if WH has gotten anything. My lawyer said I would heat about it first, but I have him blocked from everything and so do the girls.
Two days before I filed WH was being ugly again and threatening and I finally sent him an email saying that while I was sorry that everything had come to this that I didn't deserve to be talked to like he was doing and that I was blocking him from everything. WH emailed from a different account saying he wouldn't sign anything that wouldn't give him half of the equity in the house and half of my retirement. I emailed him back and finally told him to get a lawyer because I had one and that I was entitled to half of his retirement that he cashed in and half of the BP money he got. He emailed me back saying he did. I blocked that email address too. My DD 22 told me she didn't believe him when he said he had a lawyer. She thinks he is blowing smoke up my butt and so do I but we will have to wait and see. I am in for the long haul and won't give on anything.
WH hasn't been his paying his bills and cannot pay for a lawyer. I know he will have to come up with a large chunk of money to get one to contest the divorce and he lives in Idaho and I live in Florida. Personally I think he will just sign the papers to get it over with. I am not asking for anything but the house I am paying for, my car and my retirement and bills. WH has a retirement through another company and I don't want that or his truck or his car and I don't want the retirement he is getting from the state of Idaho where he is now working. I just want to get this over with and move on and hope he does too.
Phoenix, good to hear from you!
Also very good to hear you've gone dark at last. You'll be happiest if you do everything in your power to stay dark, even if it means completely changing your email address and all other contact information (which I highly recommend).
The longer you go without his drama in your life, the stronger you'll be. Good for you!
Finally found out that WH was served. He called my lawyer this past Monday and wanted to talk to him but was told no because it would a conflict of interest but my WH could write to my lawyer and email or fax it to him. WH was given the email address and fax number. They have not heard from him or a lawyer representing him since then. Won't know when he was served until the sheriff's office lets us know. If Wh was served this past Monday then he has 20 days or until September 9th to file anythin gor it goes through automatically. I hope WH does nothing but I don't see that happening. He will probably wait until the last moment to contest it. WH doesn't have the money to get a lawyer and then he would have to buy a ticket to fly here for the mediation and pay for his share of that and I'm still not going to give him 1/2 of my retirement and WH is not guaranteed to get half of it anyway especially since he cashed in his retirement from one company and he has another one that I found out about several weeks ago(I am wondering if he still remembers about that one).
On a good note, being a grandmother isn't so bad. My granddaughter is almost 5 1/2 months old and is as fun as heck. Right now she is either constantly moving and babbling or sleeping. DD 22 is back in school trying to finish her degree. Now if I can just get DD 24 back in school.
Still hoping and praying.
Stop talking to your husband in divorce
Start a thread in the Divorce section of the forums so you can get help during the divorce.
Out of curiosity, what did the lawyer charge you as a retainer?
I haven't talked to my husband in a while. I got all my info from my lawyer's legal assistant. I have cut all contact with my WH. It cost me $5000 for my lawyer for an uncontested divorce. He is one of the best and was highly recommended by a friend of mine whose husband is a lawyer. So far we haven't heard anything from him and he has 3 more days left to file a rebuttal.
I haven't talked to my husband in a while. I got all my info from my lawyer's legal assistant. I have cut all contact with my WH. It cost me $5000 for my lawyer for an uncontested divorce. He is one of the best and was highly recommended by a friend of mine whose husband is a lawyer. So far we haven't heard anything from him and he has 3 more days left to file a rebuttal.
Hope all goes well fir you PR.