Marriage Builders
Posted By: 07271974jenn any hope? - 12/12/09 03:37 PM
I feel like my world is spinning out of control, like im in a bad nightmare that I can't wake up from...

The day after Thanksgiving, My husband of 14 years,together 17, said we need to talk...oh no! I got the old "I love you but Im not in Love with you deal" was a shock to me we never even fight and just a month before we went our first vacation alone to Jamaica. So I asked if there was someone else he insisted NO..Well he lied. He says he hasnt slept with her and he is just getting to know her and Its none of my concern and shes not the reason he feels this way, yeah ok, I dont believe that. Anyway we really can't seperate seprate because he just got laid off and we are barely making it together much less seperating. and no we dont have anywhere else to stay like with family or anything. He says he will move into another room until we get on our feet and I get a better job.
We havent told both of our children yet only the oldest she is 16 well rather HE told her in the middle of the night while I was in bed, he said he didnt love me and he met someone and he was gushing about her! WTF!!! I was livid I yelled at him and said listen sure shes 16 but what is wrong with you not discussing it with me and going on about this whatever you wanna call her.
I dont know what to believe I love my husband with all my heart and dont want our marriage to end, maybe its a midlife crisis he turned 40 today in combination with him just losing his job, or if he really doesnt love me. I just dont know what to do and wish I didnt have to see him everyday knowing he is talking to her. It breaks my heart. Im stupid also since the "talk" I have slept with him a few times but Im done. Im going to a doctor next week to get get tested for everything. and yes she knows he's married.
Thanks for listening
Posted By: writer1 Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 03:53 PM
You should ask the moderators to move your thread over to Surviving an Affair. You will be able to get much more focused advice about your situation over there.
Posted By: 07271974jenn any hope? - 12/12/09 03:57 PM
removing dup post
Posted By: QueeniesAdventures Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 04:18 PM
Hi jenn, it's early I can't type those numbers out.

Welcome to MB. You have come to the most amazing place possible under the most horrid of circumstances. Is there hope? You betcha, but you have to read, you need to listen to people who give you advice about what to do and you need to act on it.

If you can, find the book Surviving An Affair and read about affairs.

STOP LISTENING to your husband. He is just talking like all the other waywards. Almost ALL OF US have gotten the ILYBNILWY speech. I was taught to think of this in terms of an addiction. That your spouse or WH is out to feel the high he has with her and is willing to sacrifice EVERYTHING in order to have it. Don't pay attention to what he says. Watch his ACTIONS.

Personally I think the fact that he can't move out is good. Because there is SO MUCH you can do while he is at home. However, the FIRST thing. Is this person married? Does the husband know about the affair or your husband.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 04:33 PM
Jenn, sorry you are here. First off, I would expose the affair to everyone, most especially your daughter. Everyone should know. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposure ruins the fantasy. Exposure is your GREATEST WEAPON.

Originally Posted by Dr. Willard Harley
Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.
Exposure

Is the OW married? If so, her H should be told. All of her family should know if you can find them.

Secondly, I wouldn't agree to a set up where he moves in the spare room and then carries on his affair as if he is single. That will kill you. I would let him know he can't carry on his affair while he lives there.

Get to the bookstore this weekend and get the book, Surviving an Affair. That will bring you up to speed on MB.

Who is the OW? Have you spoken to her?
Posted By: jayne241 Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 04:45 PM
Yes, repost this on the SAA forum, or ask the mods to move it! There are specific steps that you can take, and you need to start getting the best advice ASAP.

If you don't know how to notify the mods, you can also just copy-and-paste your post into a new post on SAA.
Posted By: StillDawn Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 04:53 PM
Jenn, I am sorry you are here too but, you will get much support here. It is usually pretty slow on the weekends so you may not get much response right now.

What??? Your H says "it is none of your concern"? Yes ma'am--it certainly is your concern...

You should do some snooping and try to find out as much as you can about OW (other woman). Maybe put a GPS on his vehicle, a voice activated recorder in his car somewhere. Check cell phone records, bank accounts for unexplained spending and possibly a keylogger on computer.

You need to gather as much information as possible and then do a nuclear exposure--exposure to anyone who may have any influence over your H.

Talk to you daughter at once. Tell her the truth because he has already begun to spin things to her.

And, get the book SAA as the others have said. You could probably even get it at your public library.

I agree with Mel--tell him he can not move into another room in the house--that this is not acceptable to you.

Just remember--all of these things ARE your concern and let him know that there is no mistake about it. Take control of the situation--there is hope.

Hang in there. Others should be coming along after the weekend.
Posted By: reading Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 05:07 PM
Yes, there is hope.

Definitely read the book and read the website Basic Concepts and the links on the concepts of surviving an affair http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

This is VERY fresh to you, just a few days of experience.

Of course, one critical thing helping me through it is understanding that the fantasy love IS more wonderful than day to day mundane spousedom. But it is a fantasy built on two people who are on their best behaviour with each other. Giving and giving and giving into infinitedom. It is not a real love.

You must do your best plan A and be your best person right now. It will give you the most control and power in this lousy situation. Anything he tells you about their joy is the script of a wayward. It could not be any other way. It is the formula of a cheater feeling entitled to cheat.

Read, read, read.
Posted By: QueeniesAdventures Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 05:13 PM
Quote
Read, read, read.
hurray

Come here and get mad, vent, express everything... twoxfour mad Nooo crybaby banghead

And ask questions, learn, and strategize..

You CAN do this..
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 05:15 PM
no the ow is not married she lives with her mom and as far as i know she has never been married no kids.. and he told my 16 yo d not the 13 yo..shes the one im mostly worried about. I hope we can save it he says no and its been coming for a while, and he has tried to love me like he use to but just can't and shes not the reason and he's just "getting to know her" whatever.
Posted By: OurHouse Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 05:17 PM
Also, go out immediately and buy Harley's book, Surviving an Affair. And read all the articles on this website. You CAN save your marriage but you need the right advice!

Sheesh, do ALL Waynerds use the same script? ILYBINILWY....
Posted By: OurHouse Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 05:25 PM
Jenn, he's in a fog and he's not thinking clearly through the addiction. As others have said, don't listen to what he says. Think of him as an alien who inhabited your husband's body.

First two things you need to do: EXPOSE and Plan A. Read up on both here. The vets will be along to give you advice.

Exposure is your quickest and most immediately effective weapon. Expose to OW parents. Expose to everyone you think has influence over your husband. His parents, his best friends. Is it a workplace affair? Expose to work. Expose to your friends. Do they have Facebook pages? Some great nuclear exposure has been done via Facebook.

You need to tell your children. DO NOT LET HIM TELL THEM. Do some damage control with the 16 yr old. Tell the 13 yr old in age appropriate terms. Dad has a girlfriend. Married people don't do that and it's made me very unhappy. But I love your father and I am going to fight for this marriage. Please feel free to tell him how you feel about what he is doing.

And again...don't believe ANYTHING he says. If his lips are moving, he is lying.

Snoop. Keylogger on the computer. Cell phone records. Voice activated recorder, etc. Do NOT tell him you are doing this.

And start now to launch a stellar plan A. Read up on it here, put it into action immediately and come back here often for feedback and advice. DO NOT TELL HIM about this website. If you can bust up the affair and recover the marriage, you can encourage him to start posting here.
Posted By: StillDawn Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 05:26 PM
OK. Jen. Just take a deep breath--it does help.

What can you tell us about OW? Where did H meet her or how does he know her? Do you know how long this has been going on? Does she live close by? Any details about OW that could help fill in?

I think it is a good idea to sit both girls down and talk to them. They are old enough to know. Tell them the truth. They will be on your side.

Do the snooping and get every bit of information you can about OW. Do the reading--it will help you.

Just remember, your H is a crack addicted addict right now. He will do anyting to get his "fix" and nothing else matters. Affairs thrive in the dark and exposure sheds light on the nasty, malignant mold growing in the dark.

And, sorry to say but, since you know what is going on, his A will probably go deeper underground now so, you are going to have to take some of the measures I outlined above.
Posted By: reading Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 05:26 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
I hope we can save it he says no and its been coming for a while, and he has tried to love me like he use to but just can't and shes not the reason and he's just "getting to know her" whatever.

This is TOTALLY on script. All waywards say it. We have all heard it. Don't believe it.

Yes, no marriage is perfect which allows gaps of emotional needs being met by an other person BUT it is not as he says. He COULD have communicated better with you to give you accurate info to work on things and HE did not.

Now you know the gaps are there.....try to fill them in a plan A and show you are an attractive woman to be with. Attractive not just physical but also compassionately open to change.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by StillDawn
OK. Jen. Just take a deep breath--it does help.

What can you tell us about OW? Where did H meet her or how does he know her? Do you know how long this has been going on? Does she live close by? Any details about OW that could help fill in?

I think it is a good idea to sit both girls down and talk to them. They are old enough to know. Tell them the truth. They will be on your side.

Do the snooping and get every bit of information you can about OW. Do the reading--it will help you.

Just remember, your H is a crack addicted addict right now. He will do anyting to get his "fix" and nothing else matters. Affairs thrive in the dark and exposure sheds light on the nasty, malignant mold growing in the dark.

And, sorry to say but, since you know what is going on, his A will probably go deeper underground now so, you are going to have to take some of the measures I outlined above.

The ow is about my age a yr or 2 older..he met her while working on her mothers and her house. he's been talking to her for about a month, some conversations as long as 249 minutes. I did get angry one night and email her that I hopes she likes screwing someone elses husband.
Posted By: StillDawn Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 07:21 PM
Jenn, don't contact the OW again. I know it's hard to fight the urge but, she probably got a big laugh out of that and it probably made her feel empowered. So, you don't want to give her the time of day.

You do, however want to deal with your WH. He is going to have to be the one to end contact with OW.

Does your and your H's family live elsewhere?

Do you think if OW's mother knew what was going on if she would support her D? Just depends on the calibre of people we're talking about here. Some would, some wouldn't.

Have you thought about doing the investigations? i.e., keylogger, checking cell phone records--obviously you have been doing this one since you know about the 249 minute call. Since your H is not working right now, you are having the pay the cell phone bill which means you are having to support your H's A...check into a GPS for car and or a GPS for his cellphone and a voice activated recorder.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 07:25 PM
well he is working on side jobs thats how he met her...and I wont contact her again she isnt that important. h family is close by. he pays the bills i hardly worked throughout the marriage and now he says get 2 jobs. nope im not gonna i have a part time job and thats it for now.

oh and what do i say when i do the exposure?
Posted By: StillDawn Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 07:59 PM
He has lost his job and he now wants you to get 2 jobs? To support him and his A??? He has lost his mind. But, it would probably be a good idea for you to at least get one full time job to support YOURSELF. Is he a handyman or something? Is that his full time profession?

As far as exposure goes, you don't want to do it until you have a reasonable amount of solid proof. And, as for what to say--just keep to the facts.

Some of the others can probably address this more in detail but I would do something like "For X amount of time H has been having an extramarital affair with OW. I have so and such of proof to this A.

It sort of depends on who you are planning on exposing to also as to how to word it I would imagine. But, you do not want to do this with bits and pieces--that is why you were directed to do a keylogger, gps, etc.--to get the full scope of what exactly H is doing--when, where, how often, etc. and, then you could include that information in the exposure too.

Exposure has to be done explosively--all at one with all the facts and to everyone all at one time so then your H doesn't have time to head it off in any way and spin the story. But, your girls needs to be talked to. Very important.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
well he is working on side jobs thats how he met her...and I wont contact her again she isnt that important. h family is close by. he pays the bills i hardly worked throughout the marriage and now he says get 2 jobs. nope im not gonna i have a part time job and thats it for now.

oh and what do i say when i do the exposure?

Tell them that your H is having an affair with OW and ask for their support in ending it. Tell them you are trying to save your family. I would start by calling the OW's MOTHER and telling her that her skankho daughter is doing your H. Ask her to use her influence to stop the affair.
Posted By: catperson Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 08:28 PM
First, tell your children that he is having an affair. Kids - even teens - will blame themselves for family problems, unless you tell them the truth. Plus, they need to learn that what he's doing is NOT right. So they don't grow up and repeat it. Also, he needs to feel their disappointment.

Second, gather up the information on the other woman. Get her husband's name and number, even an ex. Get her parents' and siblings' names and phone numbers. Then, you are going to sit down and call EVERYONE and tell them what he's doing. The affair needs to be exposed to the light, so that it will no longer look 'beautiful'. It's the only way to stop the affair.

Third, if you want to keep him, do a Plan A. That means meeting all his needs, looking great, smelling great, cooking his favorite foods, stroking his ego, reminding him why he wanted you in the first place. (you will only do this for a set time)

Fourth, ask the mods (hit the notify button) to move this to the Surviving an Affair section so you'll get more and more appropriate advice.



Posted By: Aphaeresis Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 08:33 PM
I have a suggestion for what to tell the kids, for what it's worth. The key is to tell the truth without anyone being able to accuse you of badmouthing their dad. So I'd suggest something along these lines, after first making clear that you have something important to tell them.

"Your dad told me he wants to be with another woman. He thinks it is love, but he is just confused. It is common in affairs for people to confuse infatuation with love, but I assure you that nobody knows him better than I do and that is what real love is all about. There are no guarantees in life, but I will do everything I can to get your dad to understand the truth and to keep our family together. But even if the worst happens, I'll help you get through it and we'll be okay."

And I also strongly suggest that you expose the affair to the OW's parents. Although it's possible that they could condone the affair in a misguided attempt to be "supportive" of their daughter, in the event that they do have more sense than that the fact that she is living under their roof puts you at a distinct advantage. You could say something like,

"You don't know me, but your daughter is having an affair with my husband. I know that he still loves me and that we will work this out. I'm sure you love your daughter and don't want to see her heart broken, so I hope you encourage her to get out before she gets in too deep."

This appeals to their own interests of protecting their daughter from harm. The fact that she still lives with them says to me that they are likely to be overprotective and probably over-controlling as well. That could be used to your advantage. Oh, it's VERY IMPORTANT that you use the phrase "broken hearted" or "heart broken" and not "get hurt" because you don't want them to misinterpret your message as a threat of physical violence. (She's not worth jail time!)
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 08:57 PM
ok im trying to understand all of this please be patient smile I will tell my youngest tomorrow,shes at a friends, but the whole plan a situation how do i change what i dont know is wrong he really hasnt told me except i dont listen to him, and he of course told me everything I have done wrong in our relationship as to why this is happening but nothing about him as i suspect happens alot.
should I be nice to him and no complain about anything is that the whole plan a thing or am I getting it wrong somehow?
Posted By: turtlehead Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 10:25 PM
Read up on Emotional Needs, try to figure out what his top ENs are, and do your best to meet them.

Read up on Love Busters, study them closely, and eliminate them completely!! You can meet ENs till the cows come home and undo all that work with one little LB.

Plan A isn't about "being nice" at all costs. It's not about being a doormat. It's about meeting his ENs, eliminating LBs, and doing everything you can to break up the affair. This most definitely includes exposure.

Do NOT warn him that you are going to expose! That will just give him time to call everyone he knows and let them know that "Jenn and I haven't been getting along for a long time. She's jealous, manipulative, and hateful. I've busted my tail trying to be a good husband and all she does is gripe and complain. She's paranoid... she has even accused me of having an affair. I just can't take this abuse any longer. I'm pretty sure our marriage is over; one person can't make a happy marriage and I'm done trying."

How do you think your exposure will go over after he has time to make a little speech like that? So.. don't warn him, just DO IT.

He will be furious. He will say stuff like:
How can you say it's an affair, I just met her?
I can never trust you after this.
We can never be together now that you've told everyone; I'm too ashamed to be seen with you.
I was going to work on things but you've shown your true colors and no way do I want to be with a vindictive witch like you.
How could you hurt my parents by telling them something like that?

And on and on and on. Just be prepared for his wrath, don't get baited into an argument, and wait for his anger to blow over. It will. Your marriage can survive his anger; his anger, no matter how intense, is only temporary. Your marriage can NOT survive this affair. It will only become more enmeshed, turn physical, and eventually you will hurt so much you will welcome a divorce.

When he spews those angry things after you expose, just look him dead in the eye and say "I'll do whatever it takes to save this marriage. It is that important to me. Would you like peaches or pears with dinner?" In other words, don't try to answer his questions or justify the exposure. Just tell him you'll do whatever is necessary to end the affair and then chance the subject.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: any hope? - 12/12/09 11:35 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
ok im trying to understand all of this please be patient smile I will tell my youngest tomorrow,shes at a friends, but the whole plan a situation how do i change what i dont know is wrong he really hasnt told me except i dont listen to him, and he of course told me everything I have done wrong in our relationship as to why this is happening but nothing about him as i suspect happens alot.
should I be nice to him and no complain about anything is that the whole plan a thing or am I getting it wrong somehow?

Jenn, Plan A is a short plan where you cease all lovebusting [go read up on lovebusters] and demonstrate to him your willingness to meet his needs in the future. This doesn;'t mean that you PRETEND he is not having an affair. This means that you confront him about the affair but do it without lovebusters.

When you tell your daughter, it will be important that you use the word ADULTERY and explain to her why adultery is WRONG. Explain the morality behind marriage. Otherwise, she will leave with the notion that you condone immorality and will be morally confused. She needs moral clarity and moral guidance.

Here is a simple outline of Plan A:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/13/09 02:10 PM
ok so the exposure....He is the one who seems to want to tell everyone. so what do i do in that situation?
Jenn smile
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: any hope? - 12/13/09 02:25 PM
He wants to tell everyone his spin.

The reality is what needs to be said:

He wants to abandon his family of 17 years - wife and two daughters to go scr*w a single woman who hasn't got any responsibilities.

The truth is as selfish and non-romantic as it comes. That is what needs to be exposed. The truth - the whole truth and nothing but the truth without the airbrushing he's trying to give it!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: any hope? - 12/13/09 02:34 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
ok so the exposure....He is the one who seems to want to tell everyone. so what do i do in that situation?
Jenn smile

We don't care what he wants. YOU need to call folks up and tell them the truth.
Posted By: Revera Re: any hope? - 12/13/09 04:01 PM
Two threads have been combined.
Posted By: reading Re: any hope? - 12/13/09 04:35 PM
When you expose to people, you have your list of who to tell

You call them/or meet with them/or write them (depends on where they are) and say "My name is _______, I recently discovered my H is having an affair with _________. I love my H very much and want to save our marriage and _______is a third party in the way of that. Do you have any advice for me in this situation?"

Some people will be supportive of you, some not. Be civil either way.

A few may think you are a nut but that is NOT your problem. They are, themselves troubled people.

Do not warn your WH you are going to do it. Prepare for a HUGE tantrum from him. It is just a given.

Start stealing yourself up to be brave, strong, compassionate, open hearted, one heck of a woman/person. Few spouses who are not familiar with MB will do this. Others would either immediately kick their cheating spouses out (ego/taker driven) or go insanely nuts with acted out emotion (think of all the tales of 'crazy' reactions you have heard over the years). This plan takes resolve, strength, commitment, intelligence.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/13/09 07:56 PM
Well I just told youngest daughter about the A. she took it better than I thought, but WH not home yet so we will see how that goes.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/13/09 08:07 PM
oh and this may sound like a dumb question I already know answer to...the sex and affection question are they out of the equation? sorry had to ask
Posted By: reading Re: any hope? - 12/13/09 08:13 PM
If you are talking about you showing sex and affection to meet his needs....

you be the hottest, sexiest, most affectionate woman you can be. If you are worried about STDs (you should be) you can still be demonstrating sexual hotness if you don't do the actual act. There are so many ways to be alluring and sexual. Be creative.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/14/09 05:59 PM
ok so a few things...I know he is still talking to the OW because I checked the cell phone records, a few 20 min conversations but thats it. he isnt "seeing her" because right after work he comes home. and while hes at work i know he doesnt see her because he is working next door to my father and he metions seeing him there all day.
anyway he told my daughter that he is thinking about not seeing this woman anymore until everything blows over with us. w/e thats supposed to mean. Im doing plan A making him lunch involving him in stuff with kids telling him to have a great day, trying to engage him in conversation. and that all seems to be going well. Ive told everyone about the affair and it seems like no big deal to people except my family of course. He was also telling my daughter about true love and he mentioned that to me a few times in our one fight. he says you would know it when you see it, is this normal WS talk? or does he really think this OW is true love and Im just the mother of his children?
and last night I went in our room to get changed and we ended up sleeping together, then we watched a movie talked for a few hours. does this mean anything?!? or am I just a comfortable piece for him? and he ended up sleeping in the livivng room as had some kind of stomach bug. which isnt too uncommon.
sorry just lost.
Thanks Jenn
Posted By: writer1 Re: any hope? - 12/14/09 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
He was also telling my daughter about true love and he mentioned that to me a few times in our one fight. he says you would know it when you see it, is this normal WS talk? or does he really think this OW is true love and Im just the mother of his children?

Yes, this is normal, WS, fog-babble nonsense. And yes, he probably does think this OW is his true love. But, just because he thinks it, doesn't make it true. It's all part of the WS's way of justifying what they are doing when they know, deep down inside, that it is wrong. They think, but if it's true love and we really are meant to be together, it can't be wrong. The WS needs these justifications to allow themselves to keep doing what they're doing, and it's hard to imagine stopping what they are doing, because they are addicted to the feelings the AP brings out in them. I did this, all WS's do this.

As others have said before, don't listen to anything your H is saying right now. He isn't in his right mind. But do talk to your daughter and make sure that she understands that what your WH is doing is not right. Don't allow him to justify his actions to a very impressionable young girl. Your daughters need to understand that, even though you love their father very much, he is making decisions right now that are not right, decisions that are hurting you and your family very much.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/14/09 06:16 PM
oh I absolutely let my daughters know this is wrong! they understand alot more than we give them credit for smile
Oh and also he has asked my daughter if Im seeing someone because I went for a ride one night for like 2 hours I just needed to get out for a few. so him wondering that a good thing? and of course my daughter said NO!
Posted By: StillDawn Re: any hope? - 12/14/09 06:20 PM
Jenn

It sounds like this man is using you as a door mat right now. He is having sex with you and still talking to OW.

Before I would sleep with him, he needs to be checked for STD's but, if he has anything and you didn't use protection, you have already been exposed.

You should sit down with him and tell him that he can not have this both ways and if he wants to work on your marriage he needs to stop contact all together with this woman.

Did you expose to OW's mother? What did she say?

If exposure is not working and Plan A is not working, you may want to consider going to Plan B...
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: any hope? - 12/14/09 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
I feel like my world is spinning out of control, like im in a bad nightmare that I can't wake up from...

The day after Thanksgiving, My husband of 14 years,together 17, said we need to talk...oh no! I got the old "I love you but Im not in Love with you deal" was a shock to me we never even fight and just a month before we went our first vacation alone to Jamaica. So I asked if there was someone else he insisted NO..Well he lied. He says he hasnt slept with her and he is just getting to know her and Its none of my concern and shes not the reason he feels this way, yeah ok, I dont believe that. Anyway we really can't seperate seprate because he just got laid off and we are barely making it together much less seperating. and no we dont have anywhere else to stay like with family or anything. He says he will move into another room until we get on our feet and I get a better job.
We havent told both of our children yet only the oldest she is 16 well rather HE told her in the middle of the night while I was in bed, he said he didnt love me and he met someone and he was gushing about her! WTF!!! I was livid I yelled at him and said listen sure shes 16 but what is wrong with you not discussing it with me and going on about this whatever you wanna call her.
I dont know what to believe I love my husband with all my heart and dont want our marriage to end, maybe its a midlife crisis he turned 40 today in combination with him just losing his job, or if he really doesnt love me. I just dont know what to do and wish I didnt have to see him everyday knowing he is talking to her. It breaks my heart. Im stupid also since the "talk" I have slept with him a few times but Im done. Im going to a doctor next week to get get tested for everything. and yes she knows he's married.
Thanks for listening

Sorry you're here, jenn. But this is where you need to be in order to save your M. First, read the articles.
Second, listen to the vets on here. We've been where you are and can help. Even the FWS (formerly wayward spouses)are very valuable. They can help you understand your WHs addiction, because that's what affairs are - addictions.
One of the first things you need to find out about is Exposure. It is an extremely important tool to kill the A. It will sound totally counter-intuitive to what you might 'think' you should do. Follow it to the letter.
Your H is in an active A that more than likely is physical (PA) or he wouldn't have told your kids. You need to explain the truth to them, that daddy has made a poor decision to have a girlfriend, and that's wrong for a married man to have. That you love him and will be helping him to see what a poor choice this is so that your family will remain together. They need to see that someone is still being their foundation right now.
I know the vets will be here shortly with more concise info on exposure. Listen to them carefully.

{{jenn}}
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 06:51 PM
a few questions for the "experts" here.... he thought he was telling youngest daughter last night for the first time she didnt say anything because she didnt want to talk...anyway, when he first told me about ow I asked him to stop seeing her and he said nothing I say or do could change his mind about us working it out and it wasnt about her...should I ask him again?
Im so lost on what to do it's like 1 step foward 10 steps back. one day hes nice and like nothing is changed and others he is very distant...especially the day after sex. im doing all the trying to meet his en's and NO LB..hard to look like im happpy all the time while Im dying inside..guess thats to be expected its only been 2 weeks frown
Posted By: StillDawn Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 07:06 PM
Jenn
Did you do any of the things that was suggested to you early in this thread? Like, putting gps on car or voice activated recorder in the car? Keylogger on computer if he uses computer?

He is in the fog right now and nothing he says to you is going to be the truth. Period. All the asking in the world isn't going to get you the truth. You are going to have to dig on your own.

And, you need to be careful about STD's as I mentioned to you earlier.

It is good that your daughters know what is going on now. But, your husband is distant because he is in the withdrawal stage.
Believe me when I say that when someone is in withdrawal, nothing else matters except that "fix" of the drug. He is still in contact with this woman in some capacity.

In my opinion, you NEED to start making some independant steps towards finding out the full extent of what is going on with him and you need to do it covertly. Put a gps device on his vehicle. Once you find out what he is doing on a minute to minute detail each day then you will better be able to make your decisions.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 07:30 PM
I wish I could afford a gps tracker or voice activated recorder. at this point we are barely paying the bills. frown
Posted By: catperson Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 08:16 PM
Quote
should I ask him again
You don't ASK a wayward anything. You TELL them what YOU can and cannot accept. Mainly, a third person in the marriage.

What are you doing about exposure?
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 09:45 PM
everyone knows..noone really seems to care except my family and his one stepsister.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
everyone knows..noone really seems to care except my family and his one stepsister.
Jenn, I know how you feel. I have the same sense of futily. I exposed to everyone I could think of. I wrote letters to OM's wife, to his employer, to his landlady, to WW's FxH, even to his kids (and got raked over the coals for that). I told everyone we knew -- neighbors, friends and acquaintances.

I have received some kind words of support from some. I got a letter from OM's W's lawyer. I even learned that some of "my" friends decided to be "her" friend instead. But nothing I did seemed to have any affect on the A.

But I will tell you what people here have told me: It takes TIME. None of us know what's going to happen in the future, and more than likely, what happens won't be anything like what we've predicted.

Let me quote part of what a dear (and late) friend of mine once said: "You just have to keep on being the best you can be." The RIGHT thing, in the RIGHT time will happen!
Posted By: catperson Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 10:06 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
everyone knows..noone really seems to care except my family and his one stepsister.
What exactly does this mean?

Did YOU talk to each and every one of these people? Or did HE tell them that he was unhappy, you were a witch, it was never real love, OW completes him...or more garbage?

Exposure is YOU telling these people "My H (your son, brother, nephew) committed adultery. He willfully went out and slept with another woman knowing it would hurt me"?
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 10:08 PM
Thank you everyone...I know it's gonna take time. Today is one of the days I feel down trying to stay positive is hard but I do it. hopefully tomorrow will be a better day. at least I have my 2 beautiful smart loving daughters by my side smile
Posted By: Vittoria Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 10:10 PM
Hi Jen,

Just trying to get a grip on your situation, could you please clarify .......

You asked WH for NC ..... is this a yes or no?
You can verify NC or you can verify contact, and since when?

Who specifically have you exposed to?

Can you see from phone records if WH spoke to OW at her workplace?
Is your WH independently employed?
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 11:05 PM
Yes I asked wh for nc...he didnt answer.
I know there is contact I check cell records daily and he talks to her every day.
Ive exposed to his family and mine and some of our close friends.

OW lives at home with mommy no job...
Yes he is independently employed.
Posted By: catperson Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 11:14 PM
Why haven't you exposed to HER mommy and siblings? Your WH's siblings? Pastor?
Posted By: Vittoria Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
Yes I asked wh for nc...he didnt answer.
So, that's a 'no', he didn't agree to NC, so right now he is cake-eating, meaning he has both of you to fill his EN's.
Your job is to do a better job than OW.

Try to figure out his top 3 EN's, and meet them. Admiration is likely his top EN, which is what he is getting from OW.
Reread the carrot and the stick with regards to Plan A.
Remember, no LB's.

Quote
Ive exposed to his family and mine and some of our close friends.
Someone asked if you exposed to OW's mom .... have you, I can't see where you answered that. ????
If not, expose to her.
Since there is no BS on OW's side, you need to dig deep to find people to
expose to on her side.
Siblings, aunts, uncles, friends.
Does she attend church, if so, tell her pastor/priest.
Use facebook, have a friend follow her and see where she goes.
You need to do some leg work and do some major exposing.

Read over your thread again, just to make sure that you've grasped everything. You've gotten good advice so far.
You are in a state of turmoil, the rollercoaster as it's referred to around here, so it's easy to not absorb all that is written to you.

It takes guts to fight infidelity, but it is possible.

I'm sorry that you are here.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: any hope? - 12/15/09 11:51 PM
Here is some more reading Jen.
Wat's quick guidelines

This is by Mark1952 .... more on Plan A.

Plan A: This is a specific plan that is based on the ideas presented by Dr Harley. It is designed to do two things, both of which have as their primary goal the end of the affair and yet neither aspect of the plan ensures the end of the affair. This plan can be described as the carrot and the stick of Plan A.

1) The Carrot of Plan A.
a. This is really a self-examination and self-improvement program.
i. Attempt to discover the wayward spouse’s top ENs
ii. Do all that you can, based on what the WS allows to meet these needs
b. Identify Love Busters in your own behavior
i. Discover what it is that you do that causes your spouse to be unhappy.
ii. This includes Angry Outbursts, Disrespectful Judgments and Independent Behavior as the primary problems to be overcome
iii. Eliminate these LBs from your day to day existence. Notice that the total elimination of these is the goal, not just getting better at avoiding them.

2) This is not the time to attempt to resolve long standing issues in the marriage other than LBs and only as they apply to your own behavior.

3) No commitment from the WS to recovery can or should be expected as it will be failed expectations that will cause you to lose hope.
a. No discussions of the relationship are necessary in order to carry out Plan A
b. The WS does not have to buy into the MB concepts for you to execute Plan A.

4) The Stick of Plan A.
a. Exposure of the real trouble between you, that is the affair, needs to occur so that others around both of you understand what is going on.
i. If the affair partner is married, their spouse should always be informed since they too have to take actions based on reality and not the false information they already believe.
ii. The family of the WS needs to know what is going on so that the reality is known before the WS can give any spin to your “problems.”
iii. If the affair partners work together, their employer should be informed, especially if company resources such as telephones, cell phones and computers are being used to communicate or other company assets are being abused such as lunches etc.
b. Prepare for the most hateful things to be said to you that you have ever heard.
i. You will be told that there was a chance for the marriage, but that now that chance is gone (ignore this)
ii. You will be told that you had no right to call the AP’s spouse and tell them the truth (ignore this too)
iii. You will be told that you are interfering and trying to control your spouse and this is why they are leaving you (Yep, you can ignore this as well)

5) Defend the marriage and the family from the WS’s actions
a. Do not allow the children to have contact with the affair partner.
b. Do not finance the affair in any way
i. Do not pay for an apartment for WS to live in
ii. Do not Move out of the marital home and establish your own separate residence
iii. Do not pay for baby sitters so that WS can meet with AP.
iv. Do not pay for cell phones or LD calls so that the APs can remain in contact.
v. Do not allow the family funds or marital assets to be diverted to the affair.
c. Do not enable the affair to continue
i. Do not allow the affair to be rubbed in your face.
ii. If WS calls OP in your presence, respectfully request that they stop because it is disrespectful to you. You don’t have to blow up to do this. Just say it.
iii. Make plans for family time and request that the WS be present. Basically monopolize their time so they can’t get together.

6) Reassure the children that you will always be there for them
a. Do not defend the actions of the WS, but do not constantly complain to the children about it either
b. Step up and become the primary care giver of the children.
c. Do NOT under any circumstances allow the WS to move out and take the children without a court order to force the issue.

7) Seek legal counsel to determine your rights and what you need to avoid in order to stay out of trouble.
a. If The WS decides to leave, this can include a legal separation agreement
b. It could also perhaps include an order of protection to prevent the AP from coming around your home and children.
c. It does not have to include filing for a divorce at this time.

Decision time: Did the affair end and NO CONTACT with AP begin?

If ‘yes’ then go to recovery.
If ‘no’ then go to Plan A (repeat until some predetermined period of time has passed such as 3 months, six months etc. But prepared for Plan B since your own Love Bank will be depleted very rapidly if the affair continues)
If the affair still continues after a predetermined time has passed, go to Plan B.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/16/09 01:10 AM
trying to figure out a way to expose to her mother..dont have her contact info only the ow cell
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/16/09 04:56 PM
today I just wanna throw up...he was a little late last night not unusual with his work. like 10:30 pm I was in bed but not asleep. well today when I got home from work I went to put something in our junk drawer and there was a reciept for dinner for 2 at a restuarant near her house for last night. guess he wasn't working and Im glad he's concerned about the bills and xmas this year. today is another bad day I guess frown
Posted By: catperson Re: any hope? - 12/16/09 05:27 PM
I would ask him for the exact amount of money on the receipt in cash. When he asks why, say "Well, you spent that much on OW last night. I ASSUME you're going to spend that much on the kids for Christmas presents, too, right? So, can I have the cash now?" And smile very sweetly.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: any hope? - 12/16/09 05:28 PM
Yep
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/17/09 05:09 PM
Well I found the ow's mothers email so I emailed her we will see how that goes.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/17/09 05:59 PM
HELP! I dont know what to do when I came home all of our tax records were gone, paystubs, lease, all the files I had....his clothes are here.. oh another thing the bank account is in his name only my paycheck goes in there. he acted fine when he left as I came in he left to go to work. Ugh can things get any worse nvm I already know YES.
Posted By: StillDawn Re: any hope? - 12/17/09 06:30 PM
OH MY!!! What could he be doing with all that? Do you think he could be going to see an attorney? What else would he need all that for? Especially the lease? Either that or he is trying to get financing for something?

You need to contact your payroll department IMMEDIATELY and have your check NOT deposited into the bank account. Why is his name the only name on the account?

I think you need to consult with an attorney yourself...have you tried to call him or contact him?
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/17/09 06:38 PM
I have no idea what he needs all that for. Ive tried contacting payroll no answer will keep trying. check get dep tom so it might be too late.. our credit is horrible and I had a bill collector levy the account so I took my name off. I tried to call him he didnt answer. I have no money for a lawyer. I so dont know what to do.
Posted By: StillDawn Re: any hope? - 12/17/09 06:53 PM
Jenn

I am not trying to hurt your feelings or make you feel any worse than you already do. However, it seems like every suggestion that is made to you, you find some kind of road block.

I KNOW that money is a huge issue and that times are tough for us all right now. Do you have any family members who could help you at all? Or, anyone? Friends, etc?

Most attorneys will give you a consultation at no charge. You should try calling a few of them to see if they will give you a no cost consult. You need some legal advice right now. There may even be a "pro bono" or free lawyer in your area that can help with financially burdened people who need legal help.

If there is ANYONE you can contact to see if they may be able to help you out with this--it would be recommended.

You are probably right that it is too late to stop a direct deposit on your bank account. If I were you, I would have my name added back to that account right away.

He is up to something--financially. I'm not real sure what it could be right now but, he is in the process of screwing you over right now.

Just remember, "where there is a will, there is a way". Start looking for ways around the roadblocks. You need to protect yourself.

And, if you have any idea where he may be working today, I think I just might go for a drive and find him. Your and your girls' protection (especially financially) needs to be paramount right now.
Posted By: indarkness Re: any hope? - 12/17/09 06:57 PM
Jenn,

Every one of these stories just plain sucks. They are all the same, but all different in their own way. I'm sorry.

First: what is your support structure? It sounds like you have family nearby. I assume they are on your side? If so, use them as much as possible, lean on them for support. Trying to get through this on your own will tear you apart. Do your friends know? Again, lean on them for support. Church? Social groups? Don't walk this road alone.

Second: if finances are as bad as you say they are then you need to make sure that you and your kids are taken care of. Do as StillDawn suggests and stop direct deposit on your paycheck. Yes, its probably too late for this week but do it ASAP. When the deposit goes in this week, withdraw the money immediately and stash it where WH won't find it. Then, I would open up a separate bank account, with only your name, and move your direct deposit there, again ASAP. Setup the account today if possible, cuz it can take some time to get things moved over.

Your WH sounds like he's going through some self-esteem problems right now. Losing a job is devastating to a man. This witch of an OW is like crack to him. It literally gives him a high and distracts him from reality. But please remember: ITS NOT REAL. Its not "true love". True love is sacrifice. True love is complete and utter devotion to your spouse. This is not true love - its lust, pure and simple.

All the crap he throws at you is just wayward babble - you will learn to ignore it because, again, ITS NOT REAL. Keep telling yourself this and don't believe anything that he says. He is going to lie, A LOT. Just learn to ignore it.

Right now, its all about Plan A. Do those things that make you so much more appealing than the OW. Its going to be tough because you've got reality on your side and right now it sounds like he is trying to escape reality. But don't give up!

I remember being 3 weeks out from D-day. I was a zombie...a complete wreck. It does get better. You will build up emotional defenses that will allow you to get through this, but it will take a few more weeks.

Remember, meet his ENs as best you can and avoid LBs at all costs. If your WH has any brains at all then in time he will see that you are the superior woman.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/17/09 07:48 PM
thanks everyone for the advice...tomorrow my mom is gonna open a checking account that I can use I can't open one or bill collectors will levy it. I'm looking into legal aid and going to see if I can get an appointment. This plan a is hard when I wanna stab his eyes out, but I want our marriage together again much more. He called back and said he took the files so he could get them organized and he didnt mean to take kids BC's he would give them back. anyway trying to be strong now at least for my dd's smile
Posted By: catperson Re: any hope? - 12/17/09 07:48 PM
Have you found a lawyer to see yet?

Have you gone to the bank to speak to a banker and tell them what he's doing and ask them to put a hold on the account, or whatever they can do?
Posted By: StillDawn Re: any hope? - 12/17/09 08:12 PM
Jenn

This whole thing doesn't make any sense to me...I have been trying to figure out if I were him, what I would need all those documents for and I can't really come up with anything.

The whole "I took them to organize them" doesn't make a bit of sense. Why would he have to remove them from the home to do this? There is alot more than he is admitting to.

Also, let me tell you this concerning hard times with your finances. Years ago after my first D, I was in terrible debt. I went to CCCS (consumer credit counseling service) and they helped me out so much. They combined all of my debts and reduced my interest rates and got the creditors off my back. I just had to make one payment to them for everything and they disbursed it among all of my debts. It took me a couple of years to get it paid off but, it was a real life saver. You may want to consider checking into something like this.

You definitely need to seek legal help and as you say, you are working towards doing this--this is good but, do it as soon as possible.

You may want to take any important documents (if you ever see them again) and make copies of them for you to put in safe keeping. Do not let him know you are doing this. If someone does your taxes (like H&R Block or other professional service) they keep copies themselves.

PROTECT YOURSELF by any means necessary.

Take whatever help you can get from your mother. What does she say about all this stuff?

And, he did not take these important documents out of your home to "organize" them. Ask your mom to loan or give you some money to get a gps device to go on his vehicle. You need this very much right now because he is not giving you the truth about anything.
Keep us posted.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 04:19 PM
ok so i exposed to OW mother and sister...he wasnt happy as I expected he wouldnt be, this may be long so here goes....he did work at OW sisters house a few months ago and they introduced him to OW mother to do work on her house, thats where he met OW, anyway he told me last night he was going to be doing more work on the OW sisters house and was getting an advance but now they don't want him to do the work because they are "pure family people" and they didnt approve, and he was going to call OW today and tell her he couldnt "talk" to her anymore. That I don't believe.
anyway he wrote me a letter this morning telling me he's is NOT having an affair and he just doesnt love me like he use to. and it's OVER.
A little background that I didnt add before about 7 years ago I myself had an affair and he still brings that up saying I made it seem like his fault. I can't change the fact I did have an affair back then, he says I made him feel small. maybe I did I don't know. What do I do?! I am lost and hope this IS just wayward babble. a piece of me dies everyday frown
Posted By: MarriedForever Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 04:28 PM
You never recovered from your A, and now he is having an A (he's lying, obviously).

I haven't read your whole thread, but since you yourself had an A, what about saying to him:

"Yes, I am terribly sorry about my A and that we never properly healed from that. I know that part of this is my fault (you are taking responsibility for the state of your M, NOT his A). I would still really like to try to save this, our children deserve at least that much. What do you say we counsel with the best post-affair counselors in the country to see if we can feel like we used to about each other?".

And then you call Steve Harley.
Posted By: StillDawn Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 04:39 PM
Oh my goodness...that does throw a monkey wrench into things...

You can not believe anything this man is telling you right now. He is going to be doing work at OW's sisters--she will be there no doubt...this is not good and if I were you, I would tell him NO, that is is not to do any work at OW's sisters, mothers or anyone else linked to her. Period.

It is still fishy as to why he took all those documents from your HOME yesterday...not adding up.

Have you gotten the SAA book? Have you done any of the things suggested to you yesterday? Did you call an attorney? You need to do this--
As I said before, if you could possibly get a gps or a voice activated recorder, you could find out for sure what he is doing--instead of just listening to his wayward babble and lies.
Posted By: catperson Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 04:52 PM
Well, good for them! Make sure you tell them thank you.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 04:57 PM
NO OW sister is a family person and believes in marriage and told WH no work there anymore. I should be getting SAA book anyday now. Im working on the lawyer. and the gps or voice activated recorder me and my mom are gonna go look at later today.
and I still don't know why he took all those documents most I have on my compuer anyway so only thing is my lease I don't have a copy of.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
A little background that I didnt add before about 7 years ago I myself had an affair and he still brings that up saying I made it seem like his fault. I can't change the fact I did have an affair back then, he says I made him feel small. maybe I did I don't know. What do I do?! I am lost and hope this IS just wayward babble. a piece of me dies everyday

well well well

My comments:

Quote
he still brings that up

.... because ??? It was never properly dealt with. (duh)

Quote
saying I made it seem like his fault

.... because ??? This is probably a true statement. Most WWs DO feel very entitled to their adultery based on feeling their BH was a jerk.


Quote
I can't change the fact I did have an affair back then

.... No you cannot re-write history, but you CAN own your adultery today.


Quote
he says I made him feel small

.... NEVER argue with a clear statement of what your husband says he feels.



.... The following quote is arguing with his feelings. Saying "maybe I did" is a major DJ and a message to your H that you do not care about HIS FEELINGS.

Quote
maybe I did I don't know

.... just an awful thing for you to say. Awful naughty


Quote
What do I do?

.... I'm coming to that ... hang on ....


Quote
I am lost and hope this IS just wayward babble

... Some of it is YOUR babble.


Quote
a piece of me dies everyday

... Imagine the piece of your H that died when he was feeling "small" after your adultery !!!

He felt "small" ... when your man feels "small" it's a direct hit to his manhood.
This makes him vulnerable to any female who makes him feel LARGE (as a man).


Quote
What do I do?

You own it.
You tell your H today that you never properly paid attention to HIS feelings after your adultery. Use the word adultery. Because it is what it is.
You tell your husband that you ignored and diminished his feelings and his needs (to feel large as a man).

You tell your H that you know what you did wrong and it breaks your heart as much as his adultery breaks your heart.

Now, get at it.
It's never too late to do the right thing.











Posted By: indarkness Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 05:49 PM
I gotta agree with Pepper. As I said in a previous post, it sounds like your WH has self-esteem issues right now. As a BH, I can say flat out that enduring an A is absolutely the very worst pain I have ever felt. I feel like less of a man watching my WW flaunt her A as she destroys her life and my family's life. I don't know how your previous A went down but I imagine it was heartbreaking and humiliating for him. Now you throw unemployment into the mix and this guy is probably feeling like he's less than dirt.

Now, lest anyone think I'm showing sympathy for the WH, I still think he's a dirtbag for what he's doing. There's NEVER an excuse for adultery. However, it sounds like there are some severe issues on both sides that need to get worked out.

Jenn, I think you can fix this but it's going to take some major humility on your part because you may need to open up some old wounds and heal them properly. That's going to take time. But this could be the key to bringing your WH around. His A may simply be a way for him to boost his self-image after having been through some pretty tough times. And you may be thinking, "hey its been 7 years, get over it" but unless there was proper healing, I'm pretty sure he's not "over it".

Do you guys have a pastor or other Church authority where you can go for free counseling? Or at least to begin the process.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 06:00 PM
Im willing to do anything for this marriage...he says its over. I wrote him a note apologizing for my affair and asked if we could talk abut it we will see. and no i dont think hey its been 7 yearss get over it. I guess we just really never talked about it and does anyone think it is too far gone to save? he said now i want to fix it what about 7 years ago.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
I guess we just really never talked about it and does anyone think it is too far gone to save?

I think it's worth a try.

Do not expect fast results.

I suspect your tolerance for enduring zero results for your efforts is pretty low.

Remove any expectations that he will respond in any way ... for a long while.

Keep trying.
Posted By: indarkness Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 06:10 PM
Its definitely not too far gone. D-day was only a few weeks ago. BUT, you've gotta stick with Plan A and get real about healing the past. See what he thinks about the note.

You are a past WW so you should know that waywards will say anything to justify the A. When he says "it's over" that's his way of justifying what he's doing. However, the truth is that it's a long way from over.

BTW, for full disclosure, I would drop the details of your past A into your sig.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 06:16 PM
Quote
Registered: Sat Dec 12 2009

I just noticed your registration date.

Please Please Please

Take the time and do the legwork here on MB..

Go to the "Basic Concepts" link (top of page in the red bar).

Read it ALL.

After that, go to the "surviving infidelity" sections ... and proceed to read all of that, in order.

Do not skip ahead to the infidelity part until you've read and understand and can post about the basic concepts.

That will be a tremendous help to you.

I suspect you tend to "skip ahead" ... don't do it.
Posted By: Aphaeresis Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 07:04 PM
It's not over until the ink is dry.


Glad you exposed to the OW's family. I had a feeling that her financial dependence on them could work in your favor.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: any hope? - 12/18/09 11:19 PM
I'm caught up Jen.
It's good that you came clean about your past.

You've got work to do that's for sure .... read all that has been suggested/linked.
Where there's a will there's a way.

You'll get more support here than you can ever imagine ......
if you give 100%, people here will too!
Posted By: Pepperband Re: any hope? - 12/19/09 05:54 PM
Hopefully, you are reading reading reading.

Learning & application of new skills and knowledge <~~~ the gift you give yourself.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: any hope? - 12/19/09 06:01 PM
Here's a Plan A suggestion in the meantime:

When in the presence of someone who knows your WH, say something very complimentary about WH.

Like: "My H would rock those jeans." (whatever, it's difficult to come up with an exact example without knowing your H, but you get the idea).

Figure out what your H's top 3 ENs are and then do your best to meet those needs. Ask for forum help if you get stuck. We're pretty good at brainstorming and keeping you off the edge of the ledge.

The EN of admiration is often one of men's top 3.
You can admire H to strangers, and sometimes it reaches his ears. pray


Posted By: Scotland Re: any hope? - 12/19/09 09:22 PM
Jenn- sorry you are here. I was reading your posts and I remember feeling that way too (hard to believe it was one short month ago).

I did a Plan A and it absolutely killed me. I came on here often to ask for suggestions and was amazed at the results. If you read my ENTIRE thread you will see some things that are similar to what you have said. My WH told me at first that he just didn't love me and that there was noone else. I now know that there was actually "someone else" for at least 1 year.

I fell for a lot of the WH foggy babble and even his actions made no sense to me. I came on here to vent and find support. I found a lot of support and maybe if you read my thread (yes it is LONG) then you may find some things useful to your sitch.

I have been in Plan B for 22 hours and it is killing me but with reading SAA, HNHN and everything I could on here I feel like I have the best possible chance at saving my M and if I don't I also know that I will have the support here to work through it.

Chin up and PLAN PLAN PLAN.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2291718&page=1
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/20/09 06:59 PM
Well WH has said nothing about the note I wrote...I kinda didnt expect anything either. He said he told the OW the other day they couldnt talk anymore. he even while on the phone with his dad said I told her no more and thats over. we will see. I hope more than anything this can work. I feel like a stranger in my own house, he looks past me when just a month ago he was making plans for future events. I know this is going to be a long journey what makes it even harder to look happy and keep hopes up is we will not be having a christmas this year so that breaks my heart for my children.
Posted By: Vittoria Re: any hope? - 12/21/09 12:09 AM
Jen,

You need to verify that NC is in place and continue to verify that it does.
Have you figured out what his top 3 EN's are yet?
Admiration is most likely right up there, what are the other two?

How are you being the best wife that you can be?
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 12/21/09 08:33 PM
I check cell records everyday, still NC. His top 3 EN's I think are admiration, Sexual Fulfillment, and Honesty and Openness. He says I don't listen and I only hear what I want to hear.
Well Ive been wearing make-up everyday and dressing in nice tight jeans(well as tight as I can right now) ya know the d-day diet Ive lost 13 lbs which is not a good thing Im 5'6" and now I weigh 103lbs. but anyway. Ive been staying off the computer while he is home and hanging out with the kids trying to be happy, something he metioned about OW, "shes always happy." we didnt have sex as often as he liked he would always make comments...however since d-day the sex has been amazing,and at least once a week,before d-day it was more like once a month, yeah I know bad on my part, it kills to me in a way to make love to him and I end up crying but it's the only way to be close to him right now. I've made him lunch a few days for him for work...some days he seems ok and others I feel like a stranger in my own home, it's weird Ive been with him so long and he has not ever been like this..it's hard. but Im not giving up. I love him too much.
Posted By: StillDawn Re: any hope? - 12/22/09 04:48 PM
I certainly hope that you are keeping in mind the deal about STD's...and, I certainly hope that you don't come down with one. You should have made him go for testing as was suggested to you very early in this thread but, so far, you have not mentioned having him do that (that I have read anyway).
You do seem to be doing some of the right things but there are many, many suggestions that have been made to you that you COULD do if you were willing to find a way but, you have not done them (again, as far as I have read) like the gps or recorder in his vehicle, etc.

This guy is doing what is called "gaslighting" to you and you want it to work so badly that you are being a little naieve IMO.

I do hope that this turns around but you do need to be a little more vigilant and protective of yourself.

What have you done about your check and the checking account? Did he ever return the documents that he took out of the house? Did you ever consider contacting a debt relief place to help you sort out the debts? Please, protect your self and do not let this man pull the wool over your eyes.
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 04/22/10 03:39 PM
Hmm well it has been a long time since I have been here....well the documents that he took out of the house were for a lawyer (i got them back)...who essentially told him wether he stays or goes he is responsible for us he took me to dinner and explained this...great...I plan A'd my heart out and he says everything is ok and going fine and I am finally telling him how i feel but he still thinks what he did wasnt an affair...and he never tells me how he feels...which leads me to think he is settling which I dont want....I deserve more...what in 3-4 years when my youngest is 18 what then? im at the point where i am angry...I deserve and want more than someone who is settling for me...any advice?
Posted By: MaiMai Re: any hope? - 04/22/10 03:57 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
but he still thinks what he did wasnt an affair...

He probably sees your affair as a free pass for him to do the same. Poor girls.
Posted By: Gamma Re: any hope? - 04/22/10 08:45 PM
Jenn,

The overall tone I get from reading your posts is that you have never understood what effect your affair had on your husband. It seems you would like just to brush it under the rug.

Since, I would guess, it was never resolved or explained to his satisfaction at the time of occurrence, your husband feels like he has 8 years of suffering to atone for.

Were you entirely honest with your husband about your affair, or are you still keeping the OM identity secret or something of that nature. Just because a man is silent does not mean he has recovered.

God Bless
Gamma
Posted By: 07271974jenn Re: any hope? - 04/22/10 10:47 PM
No I understand what effect It had on him no there were no secrets he knew who he was and he and I were seperated for a yr and a half while it went on and ended. we didnt get back together until it had ended about 6 months later....he never said anything until he was sleeping with someone else right before thanksgiving this past year and my affair occured in 2000
Posted By: MaiMai Re: any hope? - 04/23/10 01:08 PM
Originally Posted by 07271974jenn
No I understand what effect It had on him no there were no secrets he knew who he was and he and I were seperated for a yr and a half while it went on and ended. we didnt get back together until it had ended about 6 months later....he never said anything until he was sleeping with someone else right before thanksgiving this past year and my affair occured in 2000

9 pages and 6 months later the story starts to unfold. You left your H to carry on an affair for a year and a half, and, when you and OM broke up, ran back to your H like nothing happened and expected him to just pick up where you left off?
Your words above show you have no idea of the pain you inflicted.

That poor bas_tard.
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