If you've been following my previous thread, tonight was the night to confront my wife.

I did....she totally denied it...evidence notwithstanding. Couldn't contact the OM or the girlfriend, wife says we're getting divorced, I ruined everything.

The original thread title "totally lost" doesn't begin to sum it up.....

jcb, thats ok, you didn't need her admission to know the truth. Just keep trying to contact the gf and tell your DD's. Your wife is threatening "divorce" as a tactic to shut you up.

This is not a disaster at all. Just stick to your plan. Have you told your daughters the truth yet?

Did you tell her she will have to leave the job in order for this work?

Melody,
I know I am screwing it up, but god help me, I can't tell my girls...

We never got to no contact she started crying screaming blaming.

I picked the wrong week to stop the Lexapro...haha

Just keep using the same thread, ok?

Now...you did NOT ruin everything. You just thought you could do it your way instead of OUR way, and you found out your way won't work with a drug-addict wayward.

So...are you ready to try our way now?

The first thing you do is get back on the phone and call EVERYONE. EVERYONE, do you understand? Before SHE does, and convinces everyone you're a wife beater, an alcoholic, a sex maniac, or whatever else she'll say to get you to back off.

Do you want to be the one the girls hate for the rest of their lives because YOU lied to them without even having a reason (i.e., YOU weren't the one having the affair)?

They deserve the truth. They already know it anyway; you continuing to lie about it makes them confused and makes them blame themselves, since you won't come clean.

Man up and tell your girls.

Tried the nummbers, the only one that answered was the OM, i hung up (i did *67)everyone said the OM shouldn't be the first one....

Ask the mods to combine this with your other thread, ok?

It sounds like she needs the Lexapro, not you! Stick to your plan and tell her "in order for our marriage to recover, you will have to quit that job and end all contact with your lover." <-----be a broken record!

And stop shaking! Good grief.

So how are you explaining her tantrum to your children? More lies contrived to whitewash your wife's wrongdoing?

If you want to save your marriage, hire a PI tomorrow morning to get all the contact info for their family.

One of my problems in telling the girls is I promised her in therapy I would never make her look bad in front of our daughters again. I know SHE is lying, but if I go back on my word....am I any better?

Say this will kindness and FIRMNESS:

"in order for our marriage to recover, you will have to quit that job and end all contact with your lover."

JCB... STOP ...

Breate...

Focus...

Breate some more...

She panicking, you know something...
Shes freaking out trying to use emotion and fear to get a tactical advantage.
Suddenly her little fix is being threatened.

Its time to press forward man, not pull out. The only thing you'll be pulling out of is a parking space.

You will not be moving out of the house.
You will not be giving up your source.

Do you understand me?

Shes making herself look bad. She has to face the consequences.

I think theres a "teachable moment" somewhere in the lesson of life.

The only thing worse than making a BAD PROMISE is keeping a bad promise. Lying to your kids in order to whitewash your wife's bad behavior makes you an accessory to the crime. Teaching kids to be DISHONEST is parental neglect.

You do not have the power to make your wife "look bad" in front of her kids. HER OWN BEHAVIOR does that all on its own. Your wife looks bad - and she should - becasue she cheated and lied. If that does not look bad to your kids, then you have already taught them that dishonesty is acceptable.

thinking of going to find OM and show him the email and tell him to stay the f*** away from my wife...

jcb, your family needs you to be a leader now, not a scared little man. Please stop reacting to your wife's tantrum and stand up for your family.

Go in there and tell your wife:

"in order for our marriage to recover, you will have to quit that job and end all contact with your lover."

Then tell her you are going to tell the girls the truth - there will be no more lies.

JCB, the best kind of leader you can be for your children, is a dad who leads by example.

He has already SEEN the email. You have an obligation right there at home.

JCB,

calm down, I think you need to sit tight for a few minutes and dont do anything rash.

Can you do that?

yes

ok, are you calmed down now? Are you able to continue this mission or are you going to be distracted by the childish tantrum of an entitled, angry tyrant?

jcb, anger is not a "disaster," it is an expectation. We knew she was going to get angry. If she sees your fear you will be handing her a loaded gun with which to shoot you. She will use your fear to manipulate you.

The fear thing needs to go. It is impeding your mission.

When you have calmed down, go in there and tell your wife:

"in order for our marriage to recover, you will have to quit that job and end all contact with your lover."

Then tell her you are going to tell the girls the truth - there will be no more lies.

i'm here...

the ONE thing I've done right..I've shown no fear, no crying, no hysteria, just calmly told her what I know and that I loved her and would fight to save our marriage

JCB,

I know it hurts being lied to, but your going to have to expect it. You will need to judge her based on her actions not her words.

Melody is pulling for you and your family. Take her advice, she has wings like a angel

Good! Don't allow her anger to distract you. We knew she would get angry so this is ok. Go in there and tell your wife:

"in order for our marriage to recover, you will have to quit that job and end all contact with your lover."

Then tell her you are going to tell the girls the truth - there will be no more lies.

Stick with it, jcb! you are doing great, friend!

Hang in there JCB. You can trust Mel

jcb:

ALL entitled WS throw the "I am going to divorce you NOW (because of what YOU did..)". statemet out when they are first confronted with the truth.
oh- blah, blah, blah.
I read this same reaction and simalar empty threats, on these boards all the time. Really, check around, I think you will find it to be true.

The fact that she said this, I believe is showing you that you are doing something RIGHT. You are getting through to her. She does not like it (boo hoo). She sees a part of you that is standing up for yourself. That is very un nerving to her.

You did exactly the right thing. ForGET - friggin' sakes the OM. Do not focus on him! (I mean after you expose his bunz to the universe). He is a clown and a joke and insignificant to your job right now;
He will not listen, appreciate or feel empathy or threatened by you. You will be wasting your breath and time.

the focus is on your WW. Follow the advice. Do not go 1/2 way. You will do just fine.

Stay strong. Be the guide, father and idol you children deserve.

I don't know about what your MC said about "making a promise to not make her look bad"- SHE made herself look bad, and this is professional gaslighting/blamming. imho

Thanks RMX and sortingitout. He is doing a great job!

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Philippians 4:13

Be strong and don't waver, jcb. You are doing the right thing for your family. Choose to be a leader of your family, rather than allow yourself to be at the mercy of a tyrant. Help her be a better person because you love her.

jcb, give her this letter and tell her you would consider it a good will gesture if she wrote this letter to the OM. [one like it, that is] Ask her to write it, and you will deliver it yourself.

[from SAA, pg 58]

OM, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my husband and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that jcb did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused him, I will do my best to become the wife he has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

told her "you have to quit your job and end all contact with xxxxx for our marriage to recover"

She said she's not quitting her job, she's leaving, i ruined everything, and I am crazy.

Younger daughter in bed, older daughter not home.

Failing........

It's not going to work...she'll never admit...anyone I tell, she'll just call me insane.

She's already blaming it on stopping the Lexapro ( I've never felt more clear)

"Failing"? If WW is being honest, jcb, and you have truly "ruined everything" for her, you have been a lot more successful than you give yourself credit for.

Keep it up, jcb. You have some true heavyweight supporters in your corner.....

TB

That sounds like you got blackmailed. Do you deal honorably with terrorists?

I think the "ruined everything" is about the last 3 months which aside from the lies (haha) HAVE been the best of our marriage. I have never felt closer to her. I really thought this would go differently.

So tell her: There's the door. Either stay here with me and make the marriage work (marriage has only TWO people in it, BTW), or...well there's the door.

jcb -

I can tell things are very chaotic for you right now. having been there myself, it is a very difficult time. regardless, you need to stop with the negative talk ("Failing") and start taking action. Don't sabotage yourself.

Don't be afraid to make mistakes, we all do. As long as you learn from any mistakes, and act in good faith, you will make many more good moves than bad. Stop carrying around the burden of lies and untruths on the behalf of others. It is not helping you. The truth is very important.

ML et al are experts, and once you start following their advice it will make more sense. I know it may seem crazy right now, but really I would expect everything to be crazy right now for you.

Telling my kids was one of the hardest things I have ever done. It was also one of the best.

You can do it, and we are here to help.

Where is your evidence?

How much do you have?

Have you exposed to EVERYONE?

If you don't tell your daughters, she WILL tell them "daddy is sick". Don't think for one second she won't or hasn't.

Women are vile and vicious creatures.

You have never felt closer because you have been aiding and abetting her lies about her affair to you and to your children. You also allowed her to continue her contact with her lover, leaving that door open. That was not "recovery," that was APPEASEMENT of someone who bullied you into silence while she continued to lie to you.

jcb, you have confused "recovery" with avoiding your wife's anger. There is a huge difference.

So...you are STILL going to ignore our advice and do the SECOND thing we told you not to do. Instead of telling her family, and getting them to help stop her affair...

So...basically...you are afraid of pissing off your wife.

Are you aware that many women who have affairs get to that point because they lose respect for their husband, and go looking for a 'real' man (i.e. not a milquetoast)?

jcb,

One thing that I have found in my journey is that not everything I have done has produced the result I was hoping for, but taking action - in and of itself -- has been very liberating.

Look at you. You're standing up for yourself and your M. Your facing anger, rage, venom, and staying calm, cool and collected.

You need to realize how great of a thing this truly is.

Keep it up.

TB

But, you don't need her admission. You have the proof.

Just stay cool bro . Its not the end and the only thing you "ruined" was the fantasy world she was living in.

She already looks bad in front of her kids or would have eventually. The MC is bogus.

Yeah ya don't deal with terrorists. Ask The isreali's.

Listen to these guys who have been here for years. Trust them, you are gonna be alright. Praying for you.

jcb, PLEASE listen to me when I say catperson knows what she's talking about. She's told me the same thing at times. And she was 100% correct. 100% correct, jcb. When I heeded cat's advice, I noticed favorable outcomes. At times it wasn't easy, but again, she's was right about me.

TB

And don't forget to tell her that the girls will be staying with YOU.

I hope you didn't do this. Believe me that would only make it worse.

The kind of Man WW needs is one who stands up for himself not one who gets thrown in jail by being dumb.

I Know tho He really needs a beatin tho!! I understand man. But we are adults and gettin thrown in the clink is not good.

My wife just went to bed, still flailing I ruined everything. I calmly said I would no longer live a lie. She actually brought up the August confrontation and said my daughter and I said bad things to her and she couldn't believe I has done it again. Says she is going to work tomorrow and leaving that day. She said I shouldn't have dredged up the past, I asked her if that meant I should just shut my mouth and continue to live a lie, she just walked away.

I have a big install all day tomorrow...won't be home til later.

At this point, should I take my car from her, turn off her cell phone, etc. Everything is in my name only.

Most DEFINITELY secure all your financials so she can't drain it! Cut off the credit cards you pay for. Buy some voice-activated recorders and hidden video cameras. If you can, install a camera in the house to record what she does.

And FOR GOD'S SAKE, call her family NOW!

If you don't, SHE will call them and LIE about you. In fact, don't be surprised if she doesn't call the police and lie about you beating her up. We just had a lady whose OM beat her up, or else she did it herself, and when the BH came home, she and the OM called the police and tried to get her H (the BH) thrown in jail for beating her!

PLEASE don't underestimate her addiction to OM.

jcb, you did just great, friend! Don't do any of this stuff, you have your plan already.

Expose the affair to the OM's girlfriend and to your daughters. Try calling the GF tomorrow and when you get home, set the girls down and first apologize for lying to them. Tell them the truth about the affair and tell them with whom.

Calmly tell your wife again that this will not work unless she leaves that job and agrees to end all contact with her lover. Let her know you would like her to send the OM the no contact letter I posted.

Focus on not reacting to her tantrums. If she goes hysterical again, pat her on the head, and say "I am sorry you are so upset but we won't be living a lie anymore." Then SMILE nicely.

A stronger response would have been to firmly (and calmly) STATE to Mrs. JCB, "I will not just shut my mouth and continue to live a lie."

Don't ask her.

Keep it up, jcb.

TB

I finally had to tell my Kids alo what was wrong with MOM and she acted like I had cut her throat.
Its not true and you know it. Let her have a fit and fall in it.

Listen to Mel and Cat they will keep it simple and straight for ya.

This is some unbelievable gaslighting. In her spin, it is ok to have an affair and lie about it, but not ok to confront her with the truth of her actions. She is trying to turn this around to make HERSELF the victim, rather than her true victims, you and your daughters. That is twisted and sick, jcb, don't you see that?

How horrible for your daughters to be played with like this, only so your wife can hide from her wrongdoing. That is WRONG, jcb.

jcb, I don't know if I have posted to you or not before.

I hear the fear in your words. I understand that fear. I understand that frozen dead in your tracks don't know what to do fear and everything everyone is telling you goes against what you believe to make sense.

I think catperson said it matter of factly. PLEASE don't underestimate the power of her addictions to the OM. It will drive her beyond anything you can imagine. It drove my H to places I NEVER thought possible.

I'm sure in the beginning people told you that there would be a time for you to act without it making sense or believing it to be right. I think this might be the time. It's like calling her bluff. Your FAMILY needs you to step up and protect them, to fight for them no matter what. Be willing to lose her to stand for what's right.

There was someone I was very close to on here, toomuchtoosoon. He pushed his wife, he called her bluff and here they are almost two years later, living a life of recovery.

Don't listen to your wife. She is the ALIEN.. Listen to the vets, the ones who have walked this place before.

And TRUST G-d. Listen to HIM....

jcb, instead of being a conflict avoider, today you stood up for your marriage, your wife and your daughters. You did good, Sir. Honesty is the solution to adultery, not lies. Getting this out into the open will ensure that your marriage really does recover.

You did good today, Sir.

JCB, have you read up on the carrot and the stick of plan A?

Thank you to everyone...I am going to bed and hopefully tomorrow will be a better day...

Thank You!

jcb, you must EXPOSE this affair to everyone who has any influence on your WW. This includes her parents, siblings, friends, pastor and so on. Take this from someone who did not expose and STILL lives with a FWW who was never forced to face the consequences of her actions.

I am living in a marriage that will never heal, as a result. You don't want this.

As hard as it seems, you simply must do the exposure, in one fell swoop, contacting all these people as soon as possible, in as short a time as possible, to prevent your WW from doing damage control as Mel said.

State unto these influential people that your W is having an affair and you'd like to ask for their help in convincing your W to return to the marriage.

This step is more important than you might think. It is the biggest failure I made after I discovered the A.

Just do it!

"Thank you to everyone...I am going to bed and hopefully tomorrow will be a better day..."

Only if you expose to DD's and WW family. Then go tell the OMGF.

jcb, she broke the agreement when she chose to be wayward. You're not making her look back - she is! Do not put your daughters in a position to question why you didn't fight like the devil to save your M!

Agree. jcb, my FWH confessed to the kids after D-Day. They thanked him for his honesty, and admitted to a lot of confusion because they knew something was wrong, but didn't know what. They thought they were the problem!

Then pony up and do it, man!

Blah blah blah - that's what she's saying right now, jcb. She is following the script to a 't'.

Wife left for work, completely ignored me when I said I wanted her to quit her job and end all contact this morning.
I texted her the same thing when she left, said I understood her embarrassment and asked her to let me in. No reply....

I am going to start dialing...personally I think it ends our marriage....

The other feelings are getting stronger, starting to get very angry..regardless of my failings, I never cheated with some scumbag, or lied hundreds of times about it. She was sleeping with me and him at the SAME TIME! It's disgusting!
I'm not sure I want it to work....

Easy, Pariah... "Some" women CAN be . "Some."

Your feelings are normal, jcb. Completely. We've all felt them. Now. Start dialing. This is where you're going to be going against what your logic tells you is 'right.' So take your logic and toss it right out the window. Logic doesn't work when a spouse goes 'alien'. Start dialing. Prepare for fireworks from an enraged WS whose fantasy is getting hammered. Stay calm. You can DO this!
jcb

Just hang in there and keep doing what your doing it sounds like she's got her head where the sun don't shine. Nobody has a right to treat you and you children like this.

I also agree with the others that you need to appear resolved and unshaken to her the last thing you want to come off like is pathetic.

You did great! Just keep telling her this is your boundary.


Oh no, working with her OM every day and helping her keep her affair secret is more likely to end your marriage. Doing so ensures she never withdraws from her addiction and prevents her from ever truly engaging in the marriage. Let me ask you how you felt watching her drive off to see the OM every day?

Any luck on contacting the OM GF? What are your plans about the kids?

If she won't quit her job with the OM, I would take this to the next level and expose her at work and to your family and friends. Hopefully, she will agree to quit her job, but if she won't then this has to be considered an ongoing affair and treated as such.

The reason she and the OM need to be exposed at work is because their affair puts their company at risk of legal liability. It also puts enormous pressure on the affairees when management is watching them and motivates one of them to leave the job.

One of our board members devised a really good letter that can be used. It should be sent to the HR Director and the affairees supervisors, ccing them all [so no one is tempted to toss the letter]

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________

Do not let WW know exposure is underway until you have already contacted a good share of your exposure targets. If she does try to contact you, you can ignore it...you want to keep your head as clear as possible and not get sidetracked by WW's impending meltdown. Good luck.

JCB- Listen to the vets here, they know what they are doing based on experience. I too had struggled with exposure but I did it anyway. I took their suggestions and did the best I could. It was conflicting because we are so ingrained to 'protect' our wives from harm.

What is hard to see is that the exposure and other actions to end the affair truly are done out of love to protect the marriage and the spouse and kids. This has by far been the toughest thing I've ever had to deal with in my life and I'm still in the middle of the angry firestorm that followed exposure.

That being said, it also has helped me to gain some control over my own destiny and to view our marriage a little more clearly. Hang in there, keep reading and learning, and fight for your marriage. You are not alone in this.

Told my oldest daughter, she started crying, then she got mad...it was awful.

She is probably on her way to wifes work right now....

Just remember, jcb, the anger you have experienced so far is NOTHING compared to the anger she's going to try to bring to bear on you for exposing. The fury of a wayward having their affair exposed is UNBELIEVABLE.

So brace yourself for it. Expect it. If she eventually does get ahold of you -- and try not to let her do so until you're done exposing! -- she's going to do her level best to destroy you completely. She'll try to extract promises from you, try to browbeat you with everything you've ever done wrong, and tell you that what you've just done is unforgivable and possibly a greater offense than an affair itself.

Distance yourself. Shrug off her anger. Relocate yourself if you need to. Find some way to tune her out while she has the Mother of All Temper Tantrums.

That's EXACTLY what it is.

Now, on the other hand, some wayward wives react to the news in an entirely different fashion. If they are withdrawn enough -- that is, not in a state of "conflict" in the marriage -- they may be furious, but welcome the news as permission for them to go ahead and pursue the affair publicly. Be ready to shrug this off, too. They still HATE the exposure, but they will tell you they're glad for it in order to try to rattle your cage and make you react somehow.

Just practice one line over and over again in your head. "I'm doing everything I can to save our marriage." She will try to rationalize you into believing exposure is just hurting the marriage. Don't believe her. She doesn't know the truth of what exposure actually does: exposure is a calculated Love Buster with the intent of shining the light of truth on the affair to pierce the lies, and a way for a betrayed spouse to gain additional support from family and friends in order to survive the affair with their love for their spouse intact.

Here we are 4 months past D-Day, and my FWW still doesn't believe exposure led to her ending the affair. You and I know the truth. It's your best chance, you ARE doing the right thing, and all her anger and vicious attacks won't change that fact.

Your wife owes her an apology. And I will tell you something else, jcb. Part of the reason your DD has reacted so strongly to this is because YOU HAVEN'T. When there is a vacuum in leadership that enables injustice to flourish, kids will often step up to the plate. It is very upsetting to girls to witness their fathers being manipulated by a WW.

We have one family where the WW was a serial cheater who flaunted her affairs for years. The father allowed this to continue unabated. The 18 year old teenage girl packed the WWs bags and kicked her out!

I am sorry this has been so traumatic for you, jcb, but what you have done is pulled out a rotten, stinking, festering tooth that was slowly poisoning your family with its infection. Sure, it hurts when the tooth is yanked out, but it is the only way to heal the infection. Trying to recover your marriage on a foundation of lies while she goes off to see her OM every day was an impossible situation, jcb.

Stick with it, jcb, you are standing up for your family by eradicating the lies and the adultery from its midst.

It may seem awful, but it was one of the most important things you could have done to get your daughters' mother BACK. SHE created this mess, not you. SHE needs to see the pain she has caused her own daughter with her selfishness.

A mother should be ashamed of herself for putting her own happiness ahead of her daughters'.

Yes jcb she's going to howl like a bear caught in a trap so brace yourself for the worst. Your doing the right thing

jcb, exposure is tough and draining but you will have a sense of relief once it is over and you are done hiding WW's secrets.

It's been said before on this forum but I think it bears repeating.

Your marriage can survive her anger.

It will NOT survive an affair.

It might help, if you have the time, to read some of the other threads, where people went through the same thing, and executed a great MB plan, and saved their marriage.

It will also help you to realize your wife is no different than any other wayward. They ALL say the same things. DO the same things. Threaten to get a lawyer. Blame YOU for ruining chances, once you expose.

If you read other people's threads, you'll see their waywards doing the exact same things as your wife. But then, you'll see the WW calm down, realize what's now going to happen now that the BH is fighting the affair, and often give up the OM and apologize. Not a guarantee, but your best chance going.

Folks, what are some good threads to read? BarnBoy, over in Recovery, for one.

Since JCBs WW sounds very similar to mine, try reading my thread "Want new start- wife doesn't". My WW has been following the script that everyone said she would. I was also posting my exposure progress as it went on too which may be helpful.

Well, I hope you will find it helpful anyway. My WW hasn't given up the OM yet, but I have seen some signs that it may be working.

Uh, why are you stopping to tell us you exposed oldest DD. You have a lot more people to tell. Exposure needs to be done quickly to get maximum effect.

I want to see bleeding blister's on your dialing finger.

What about your other DD, WW parents and siblings. Use that sample work exposure letter get it sent before noon today. Send it by email and mail to CEO, then CC Director of HR and the Board of Directors.

"The 18 year old teenage girl packed the WWs bags and kicked her out!" Is there a link to this post?

I also remember where two brothers, about 18 and 20 years old that had a WM, wayward mom. Don't remmeber much but I think they they found out before their dad did. They went and saw the OM and told him that it would be in his best interest if the OM went NC with their WM.

I don't have the link, but it was MisterSteve.

I agree with Mel- expose to EVERYONE as quickly as you can. Mine was a little more dragged out and if I could do one thing over again, it would be to have a better PLAN and tell everybody on the list in one day.

How's it going jcb? How many names can be checked off the list?

One more thing, do not tell your WW or even any of the people you are exposing to about MB. You do not want to loose this resource.

He said he was going to be gone working all day today.

Oh...well he was here a minute ago.

JCB,

Part of the things she'll say:

"I was going to work on our marriage, but you just ruined any chance of that!"

"I can't trust you!"

"How could you stoop so low?!"

"You're just trying to ruin my reputation!"

"You can't make me stay in a marriage where I don't love you!"

"You just can't let go!"

"You've ruined OM's marriage!"

"You're hurting OM's kids!" (if he has any)

There's plenty of others, and I'm sure people can chime in and throw in some other examples.

I encourage you to read TryingEverything's thread "Wife's affair....I don't know what to do"

You'll find a good amount of the kinds of things you will be told.

and
"You're just making yourself look desperate and weak"
"You should be trying to fix yourself and be a better husband instead of making us look bad"
"You're just being vindictive"

The weak part just gets me. Exposure was the hardest thing I've ever done, and took tremendous amounts of courage. I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do.

jcb...you are on the brave road...

which unfortunately, is paved with fear...

and you're walking it, anyway.

Know that...applaud yourself and keep breathing and doing...not because you feel courageous...because you don't.

Rely on your support here...they will not lie to you...which is why they can be your light.

Thank you so much for telling your oldest DD...shows respect and trust in HER to know that you informing isn't what hurts so much...it's her mother's choices which hurt.

Stay in reality...hold steady...and keep going. Take the applause, support, hugs, comfort and kudos as you can...for balance and grounding.

And keep going. You can do this...you are doing this. You're owning your choices...you're bringing reality...know and believe it...don't fall for the babble that you are ruining the marriage...or that you have ruined it...you are married.

Right now. And you're ruining her AFFAIR.

LA

"Vindictive", "Mean", "Cruel", "Heartless", "Over the top", and "Vengeful" were the words of choice my FWW chose to describe exposure.

I choose to substitute the phrase "successfully interfering with my affair" in my head every time she used those words. Good coping strategy.

Yes I was hurt from work and just out of surgery and was told I was not able to take care of the princess any more when she finnally left. It was so sad because she was so wrapped up in lies.

My Children,(DD18,DS16 n DS13) didn't buy it thank God but they were definatly hurt to see their Mom become such a mess.

Good thing is that lies don't survive in the light.

Hang in there JCB These guys are good and they know what they are talking about.

Ah, yes, BB. The good 'ol "vengeful" barb. Whatta ya know -- got that one as recently as this past Saturday. You beat me to the punch.......

jcb, take heart, buddy. You're hearing (and may continue to hear) stuff most of us have heard ourselves. We're still pluggin' away....

TB

Let the nuclear explosion of her anger roll on...while you stay cool, calm and collected. Tell her you are just doing "what is necessary to fight for your marriage".

She will foam at the mouth and tell you anything that "might" get you to back off. Take none of her words to heart, it is all fierce fog-babble, and it all means NOTHING.

As has been said, your marriage can survive anger, but not an ongoing affair.

Take it slowly and be deliberate when you choose your words. No LoveBusters!

Yes, we know this is all very difficult to do. Very. But we also know it works. Believe in this path Marriage Builders provides and follow the plan and you'll have a better than average chance of saving your marriage.

Last night told my youngest daughter, she said it wasn't true and I was hurting everyone by continuing to think about it, her mom would never do anything like that....

Wife finally confessed that she had an affair. Said at first we would never work now because of what happened. She eventually half heartedly apologized...says it's over, has been over for months...that the OM was "deeply in love with his girlfriend"....refuses to quit her job saying she really likes it there, won't remove him as a facebook friend because everyone at work are each others friends, so it would look odd...says she wants everything to work...she will never hurt me again...

If you remember my comments about our therapist believing her denials, she says she told the therapist up front that she had an affair, and that is was decision to not tell me for fear of my "mental condition"...they were supposed to tell me together, but we stopped going...

I thought all I needed to hear was an admission and apology, which is what I got...now I feel completely hollow, she still works there, still sees him and honestly thinks that's ok. Further exposure at this point seems unnecessary...not sure what I gain. My wife of 17 years, my friend, mother of my kids, had sex over and over with a man 10 years younger than me who can't even pay his phone bill...who she loved more than me... It continued for months..so many lies were told, and I think the only reason it stopped is because he found a girlfriend, not because my wife loved me....

I am not sure this is able to be fixed now....and honestly I'm not sure I want to try...

Thanks for all your advice and help...it sure is great to hear everyones thoughts....

Hate to say this, but if they're still working together and she won't at least 'un-friend' him on FB, it's not over . . .

You can fix the relationship. It's been proven over and over. BUT, the affair has to stop, and she must take whatever measures necessary to avoid any kind of contact with OM. Until that happens, you're swimming upstream.

I think it is time for Plan B. If you are no longer meeting her needs, she will have to capitulate or you will end up divorcing.

If you don't go to plan B, you will still end up divorcing...

Seems worth a shot to me.

JCB,

I can't give you a reason to try to recover from this. You have to find that reason yourself. But you do need to know that you are now at that very point where finding that reason is possible. This seems to be a fork in the road where you must choose one road or another. One way leads to recovery while the other leads to divorce.

In reality you are at an exit point. You can choose to get off this road and take another direction in your life or you can continue down this road knowing that there will be another exit just a short way ahead. You don't have to decide to divorce yet, but you can do so at this moment. If you choose to continue, you'll get another shot at it up ahead.

You get lots of chances to end a marriage and not many to save it. Choose from reason rather than pure raw emotions...

Mark

Cutting off contact and finding another job is a condition to saving your marriage.

Have you confronted OM? You need to contact him and tell him to remove your wife from his page.

This constant disrespect will eat at you and destroy you and get you to hate your wife eventually if it isn't corrected.

Your kids know the truth now, which is very important.

But this contact on Facebook has to stop and all contact has to cease. Until you have someone who is willing to accept the enormity of what she's done, you need to be prepared for hardball.

What state do you live in? You may be lucky enough to be able to sue for Alienation of affection against OM.

Florida..no alienation of affection..here it would be Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress....OM is broke, so it would be vindictive only, and if I'm just going for revenge, I can think of better ways.

Life as you knew it is gone and the hollow feeling is indescribable. Only you can decide what you want but know that everything you have described is still typical A fallout and recovery is possible.


Again...very typical. I know that doesn't mean much when you are living in your own personal hell at the moment, but WWs' As typically end because they are dumped by OM. You do not have decide anything today jcb. Your feelings with change daily, hourly, every 2 minutes...yeah for the rollercoaster. If R is still on the table, your WW must find other employment or you will be spinning your wheels.

This is probably a lie, have exposed to OM's GF?

Call or write that letter to H.R.
They are still having, or she is hoping to continue/restart the affair.

Translation = I will say anything I can to get you to stop exposing my affair, becouse if you don't stop exposing I wont be able to continue it. So please stop exposure.

Typical of most divorce....er I mean marriage counselors.

What is your "Mental Condition?"

I would call the theropist and ask how this was supposed to help you, your wife, or your marriage!

Popycock
Her employer needs to know so they can avoid a possible sexual harrasment suite.
The OM's GF needs to know so she can make a decision on weather or not she want's to date such lo life scum.

Sometimes it's not about you.
See Girl Freind and employer above


Sounds like a typical OM to me

Thats not love.

It sucks to be here, but stop beating yourself up. Divorce, or don't.
Either way, work on fixing you, becouse you deserve it.

Did she confess to her daughter, who told you that you were lying?

You still need to:
(1)Contact their HR department and ask that they be separated at work at least, and he fired at best. Tell them you will be looking into legal action for them allowing it to happen on work hours. There's a letter around here somewhere you can use to expose to work. If you don't expose at work and somehow get them separated, she will NEVER stop pining for him and turn her focus back to you.
(2) Get her to write a No Contact letter to him so that she emotionally divests of him. In it, she needs to reaffirm her intention to save her marriage.
(3) Continue to tell everyone, just in case.
(4) Schedule an hour with the Harleys, half for you and half for her. She needs to hear this stuff from an expert.
(5) Get her to agree to Extraordinary Precautions - give you all her passwords, agree to a GPS in her car, promise not to go anywhere without letting you know where she is.
(6) Sit down with your kids AND your wife, and talk about what happened.
(7) Go to her parents together and tell them what happened.

If you do these things, you have a good chance of getting your old marriage back...or an even better one.

JB, Please go read SexyMamaBear's thread: "OW never had my husband."

Your wife is an alien. And all that OM has of what was your wife is this shell of an alien. He'll never have YOUR wife.

As Mark said, you can always make the decision to divorce at any time during this journey. But you are at a point now where you can make a decision to continue to try to recover your marriage.

But YOU have to do all the heavy lifting now. Please consider that your wife has been kidnapped by aliens and you are trying to get her back.

Are you up to the task?

jcb, do you want to save your marriage? If you do, let me know and we will help you. It can be saved, but you cannot surrender before the battle pre-emptively. There is no easier, softer way to recoup from an affair.

You have won half of the battle and are already talking about surrender, friend. If you want to win your marriage and your children's security, you can't stop now. You have to continue until this affair is slayed.

You will not have a marriage if your wife continues to work with the OM and continues to see him on facebook, period. Ask yourself if you can possibly heal from this watching your wife go off to see her OM every day? No, you can't. Nor will the affair ever end this way. Every day your wife sees her OM, she is triggered. She will stay in a state of perpetual withdrawal that will prevent your marriage from EVER recovering.

My friend, you are at a fork in the road, like Mark says, and you can choose a pre-emtptive surrender and likely lose your marriage, or you can stay on this path and win. It might seem EASY now to surrender and temporarily avoid conflict, but you will be buying enormous conflict in the future. And so will be inflicting it on your children too.

Can you manage a little short term pain for some long term gain or are you going to opt for some short term pain and some long term pain? The choice is yours.

p.s. not that it matters, but how do you know that the OM has a girlfriend and is "in love" with her? Is that a story conconcted by a dishonest wayward wife to throw you off her scent?

How can you take the word of a liar?

The fact that your wife places her job over her marriage indicates to me that there is much more going on in this affair than is being said. A truly remorseful WW would not want to be around her OM because she knows it triggers her. But one who was still in an affair, or hoping for resumption, WOULD.

Have you actually spoken to this "girlfriend?"

There is a girlfriend, she's all over the OM's facebook and some chats from him to my wife reference how happy he is and the Oct. email references their happiness as well. I think my wife is more obsessed with him than vice versa.

Out of curiosity..is my wife insane or are these typical things a wayward does? It doesn't seem logical that she wouldn't quit her job, we don't need the income, she got the job for the insurance. The facebook thing seems so small, why not throw me a bone? Are her denials up to last night typical...what about the anger? Telling me she can't keep doing this to the kids (the arguing and crying)

Is it possible she lied about telling the therapist everything? I'm confronting him tomorrow at noon to see what his deal is.

At this point, if I decide to try and make it work, how do I go 180 degrees with (theroretically) no further provocation, and go from saying I would try to make it work and that I forgave her (which I said...) to telling everyone, sending letters, etc. I am falling right in to her statements that I'm unstable, and am letting this eat me up when it's over......

Yes, everything so far is typical. WSs are insane creatures that can't see straight. Do not try to apply logic.

I know it's impossible to say (so why am I asking, right haha) but if I were to follow everything including the full exposure, realistically are my chances better than 50/50 my marriage can be saved?

You have been told atleast 100 times in this very thread that all this is typical for a WW.

YES!

Figuring out when a WW wife is lying is simple....
If they are talking, they are lying.

If she tells you the sky is blue don't belive it, look for yourself. Then if you also see a blue sky, find a completly unrealated party to look for you to make sure your wife was not tricking you into seeing a blue sky. Then if that second party says the sky is blue then a third party to confirm the second's observations. If all agree the sky is blue, then you can be reasonably sure it is.

I'm seriouse!

jcb...you aren't unstable, she is. Remember that. Most of what a wayward says is total projection...makes sense when you flip it over. Don't educate her on her own projection...just know and don't buy into the fog, 'k?

Stay steady and strong...we've been there...stop using up brain cell time on her "whys"...why wouldn't she quit her job, remove him from FB, etc.

Don't go there. Circular logic won't save your marriage. Facts will...and staying in reality helps your DDs as well as yourself...you're showing them how to act in the face of disaster, adversity. Big part of love.

LA

PS...If you're going to choose your goal based on the likely outcome, then stop. Rethink. Choosing your actions based on possible response is crazy-making. We don't control outcomes...so basing our choices on possible ones isn't reasonable.

Choose to save your marriage based on your goal of being able to look your two DDs in the eye in five years, no matter what the outcome was, and be able to honestly say you did everything you could to keep their family intact and recover your marriage.

Yes. The exposure will help her achieve humility. Something she sorely needs right now. She has to psychologically 'see' the devastation she has caused, in order to be afraid to do it again.

If your son steals a candy bar, and you find out later, and you say 'that's ok, son, just don't do it again,' what will happen? He'll decide it must not have been that big a deal, and will continue to steal.

If he steals, and you take him back to the store, make him apologize to the store owner, and make him work sweeping floors for 2 hours to pay for the candy bar, do you think he'll steal again? Not likely.

About that, depends on you and your wife.
(Typical national average is 30%, better ods here using MB plans)

But you have a 100% chance of divorce if you don't kill the affair.

Your wife is addicted to the OM. She is not insane, she has an addiction. That is why she has to leave the job. Her staying there is like believing an alcholic can "recover" by going to the bar every day and having drinks but changing the name of his drinks to "business drinks." She is in a state of perpetual withdrawal. And it would not surprise me if she still has relations with him while at work.


You stop worrying about what an insane person says to you and do the right thing for your marriage. If a falling down drunk accuses you of being "controlling" for taking away the car keys do you allow her to keep the keys? Of course not.

And you are crazy for thinking it is "unstable" for letting this eat you up. This is the worst thing that can happen to someone. Adultery is as traumatic as physical assault, the death of a child or RAPE. Not only have you been assualted in the worst possible way but your wife continues the assault by seeing her lover every day. That is CRUEL and unusual punishment. It will EAT YOU UP EVERY DAY until that changes. EVERY DAY. Do you understand, jcb?

You already know this is true. It eats you up every time she goes on FB and sees that [censored]. It eats you up every day she sees him at work. How in the world do you imagine a marriage could possibly recover under those conditions? THAT very notion is insane.

Now, do you want to save this marriage or not? Because if you stop now, before these issues are resolved, all f your efforts in the past few days will be for naught.

I swear Mel has waaaaaaaay more patience than I.

If you don't, your odds of divorce are astronomical. At best, your marriage will struggle along while your wife stays triggered with infatuation for the OM until she either resumes her affair or finds another lover. If you don't recover from this in the right way, you are looking at more of the same in your future. Many of us here have saved our marriages using these techniques and Dr Harley, who has treated thousands of such cases over the years says:

" In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. "

I have a business trip this weekend I cannot miss. Want to hear what the therapist says first..if I expose on Thursday, I won't be in town Friday-Sunday....is this a good idea?

Quoted for truth. I have no illusions that my FWW stopped pursuing the other man for good on her own... OM simply stopped responding to her entirely once I exposed to OM's wife. Once OM went a week without talking to FWW, some sunlight crept through the fog and FWW decided a no-contact letter was the right thing to do.



Another "Quoted for Truth" item. My at-that-time wayward wife repeatedly told me "It's over" and "there is no affair"... just moments after she got off the phone or IM or email with him.

In a wayward's mind, it can be "over" because the other person broke up with them months earlier, and so there's no affair because what they're doing now is just "friends with benefits". They just have sex. It's just physical now, not emotional.

Or it can be "over" because they stopped having sex months earlier, but still talk to each other and express their feelings for each other. And express that if their spouse and girlfriend weren't in the picture, they'd be with each other again. But it's "over" because now it's just emotional, not physical.

Every wayward will try to justify their decision to keep the other person in their life somehow. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. Each time using some rationalization to make it OK in their mind.

But it's never OK in the mind of the betrayed spouse.


BINGO. My FWW's relationship with the other man was an EA... but looking at the call logs, toward the end she was calling and writing him far more than he did her. She wants to try to keep him in her life because of how she feels when she's around him. It's the addict getting her fix. That's why there has to be no contact for life, because she'll NEVER really get over him while she works with him and sees him daily.


Waywards are insane while they're wayward. Their insane behavior toward the ones they love most is part and parcel of the wayward gig.


Because she's made it clear to you already she wants to hide the affair, and de-friending him on facebook would:
1. Arouse suspicions among her work friends,
2. Lead to embarrassing questions,
3. Eliminate one source of her regular "fix" (remember, you're dealing with an ADDICT!)


Totally normal.


Oh, yeah, my wife really insisted -- and I believe at this point, would still insist, though that feels like it's changing, slowly -- that the post-D-Day "drama" was all my fault. I kept bringing these things up. I kept hounding her about the affair. I kept checking on what she's doing, and my snooping led to our fights.

In my mind, I had to keep reminding myself that these kinds of accusations are wayward fog-babble. Any rational person would agree that a spouse having an affair and refusing to stop it is reason enough for "drama".


Given your wife's character and proven history of lying to you and others about the affair, what do you think?


Why not be honest?

"Until the day you commit to and follow through on no-contact-for-life with the other man, I have no choice but to assume you still have feelings for him and every time you see him it reduces our chances of saving this marriage. I will do whatever I must to save our marriage."

Or just use the last sentence there, which is what I did




According to Dr. Harley, most marriages attempt to reconcile from an affair, but the way to do it is very, very narrow. If your wife does not stop seeing the other man, your chances of marital recovery are 0%.

Statistically, your chance of divorce is pretty much always 50/50 in the USA. I suspect if you magically eliminated all the known and unknown infidelity from that statistic, however, you'd find the VAST majority of divorces are due to infidelity but get blamed on other things.


I'd say a very bad idea. It's likely one of the reactions your WW will take is to try to force you out of the home or take the kids and move out herself, and if you are already out of town, it's much easier for her to do. Yet that is at war with my "expose everything ASAP" instinct.

EDIT to say: I just realized this is probably a big part of the reason she wants to keep her current employer. She has benefits, she has some stability, and when push comes to shove it gives her the "independence" playing card so that she has the financial ability to leave you and at least somewhat take care of herself.

If you helped her find a new job, it might still preserve her notion of "independence" while satisfying the fundamental requirement for recovery that she stop seeing the OM...

Might be good to get a session with the Harley's on how to deal with this. The opinion of a professional is truly worthwhile. If possible, I'd skip that business trip. Get "sick" or something.

One of the biggest mistakes a BS makes is taking cues from the words of a wayward.

My sister NotSure is a poster here. This fall her husband repeatedly told her he was "done" with the M and laughed in her face and chatted with OW on his Blackberry while she tried to talk to him about their M. She followed the advice of Mel and the board and did a full-blown exposure and it killed the affair dead. Once she was able to get the contact to end, she was able to deal with her real H, not foghead.

Follow through with the exposure advice you are getting, don't give up yet.

Yes you can!
And you should.

Do not leave town anytime soon unless WW and the kids are going with you.

I would expose when you get back. You need to be there to deal with everyone and everything. And I also would worry about her being all alone to move OM in or something as stupid.

Dragging out an exposure is a massive strategic mistake. Can you get out of this business trip?

"Hate to say this, but if they're still working together and she won't at least 'un-friend' him on FB, it's not over ."

Also you did not make it clear did WW confess to DD2?

Yes, he can.

You must stop half muling every thing. Finish exposure. Expose at work.

You bet it matters! jcb, I was told this EXACT line of crud! WW later admitted how she thought it would put me more at ease (ie. off her scent), on at least stop the questions regarding OM.

It matters big-time. And Mel is dead-on. jcb, don't believe whatever Mrs. jcb is shoveling. It's better suited as fertilizer.....

TB

jcb, if you haven't figured this out yet from the posts here, Waynerds are given a script when they go wayward. And they all follow it, to the letter.

And we have the script right here in our hot little hands. We are telling you, she is reading from a script.

But you can write the final act of this play. That's not scripted yet.

wife did not confess to DD2, I told her, she denies it, wife said talking to her further was cruel and damaging (!)

Business trip would be very difficult to get out of at this point, but possible, I suppose.

One additional discovery...my wife has a prepaid cell phone (she was emailed a low balance warning) I will not able able to check call logs until she tops and it off and types in account # and password.....obviously I know what this could mean, but it IS possible it's for her mom..she has a prepaid from the same company and my wife is notorious for paying (me paying) her mom's bills....

Thinking about calling the Harley's for a consultation...any further thoughts?

JCB... this is a marathon, not a sprint. The script will be repeated over and over again, and will change over and over again. Waywards lie. And they lie even when they say "why should I lie anymore? You already know everything."

Protect yourself. Protect your finances. Look for receipts and credit card statements and other damaging evidence. You might not need them now, but they may come in handy down the road.

And OM now has a GF. How convenient. My question -- "Til when?"

Your WW is addicted to the thrill of the affair. And it will go on for awhile. Hunker down and do your homework. Trust your instincts. Never give her the indication that what she's done/is doing is OK.

DO IT!
And continue exposure, NOW!!

Do not delay.

Don't you just love that.
We (Money I earn) help out our family (My in-laws) all the time too.
Somtimes I dont even know WE are helping them.

jcb, my suggestion would be to get out of this trip and i will tell you why. You have this affair on the run right now and if you let up, you will give them a chance to regroup. This is a horrible time for you to be gone. You have inflicted just enough damage to the affair to infuriate your wife but not enough to kill it off. In other words you just inflicted a flesh wound but infuriated the dragon. If you let up now, you will give her a chance to regroup. And you may even come home to changed locks, that is not uncommon.

Yes, I would check into counseling with the Harleys, too. But in the meantime, I would work on getting this affair exposed in the hopes that your wife will leave her job.

Can you call your mother in law to ask about the phone? What is the phone #? Can you call to see who has it?

Stop waiting.

Expose to her works HR
Expose to OM's girlfreind
Expose to anyone who WW respect and who may be able to put pressure on the affair.

Do it TODAY, January 6th, 2010
Do it NOW, 12:52PM EST

Look at it this way, jcb. If you got full-blown pneumonia and were in a hospital bed when you were supposed to head out on your trip, you wouldn't be going, now would you? Obviously not. Your marriage has pneumonia right now. You can't leave town, right?

Can't call mother in law until exposure. Only have the last 4 of the cell phone # until she pays for more time. would have to call all available 3 digit prefixes.

When I expose to management at her employer, will they fire one or both of them? I thought of threatening to picket out front that her work supports adultery or something like that? Is that nuts?

Trip has been postponed.....

Would like to wait to speak to therapist about his knowledge before exposure....

Not your own therapist, right?

How is the phone paid?
I am sure you can find the phone number for you MIL if you really try.

One/Both/Neither, all possible

Uh.....
I would NOT do that.


[/quote]

yes...my wife told me last night that she had in fact told our therapist that she had a physical affair....it was supposed ly his decision to withhold that info from me...I want to know if that's what happened or another fantasy of the WW

Where do you think she would hide the phone?


Sometimes they will fire the affairees. My company does. But even if they don't, just having management watch them will make them uneasy. I don't know that I would picket the place though!

In your situation, I would stick to this list of folks:

1. workplace
2. WW's parents and close family and friends
3. OM's GF
4. your family and close friends
5. the OM's facebook friends

But this needs to be done SOON, jcb, and all on the SAME DAY. You can't analyze this to death while time is wasting. The longer you wait, the more strength the wayward side of your wife garners. You need to kick the affair while it is down.

I would guess if the phone is hers it would be in her car, but it could be anywhere...I never use her car so she's going to figure I'm looking for something....

I couldn't agree more

It's most likely in her purse, to allow her "quick access" to the OM.

Your wife having an affair is cruel and damaging. You telling your daughter the truth is kind and potentially life-saving. Never, EVER forget this!

Why dont you go search her car?

Ya know, I bet MIM is right. She keeps it in her purse when you aren't around and perhaps keeps it in the car when you are. OR..........could she be hiding it somewhere at home?

Would she dare use that cell phone in front of your DD?

Jcb,

I see you paralyzed as I was with fear. DO NOT let fear control you. It is your greatest enemy and you're talking to people who have followed through on these plans, are currently following through on the plans, or didn't follow through on these plans and wish that they had.

The greatest ally you have in ending the fantasy and the affair is exposure. You MUST expose to the OM's girlfriend. Get a hold of her on FB and send her a message about your W having an affair with her bf.

Exposure to her boss is a risk in the fact that they may not care.

Exposure to family is necessary. I was afraid of doing this and my WXW confessed first with her spin on things.

The advice I give you is coming from a man who did exactly as you are doing and allowed fear to control him. What did it get me? Divorced and separated from my kids. It took years to undo the damage in terms of seeing my kids again.

So yes, you must expose and you must do so to the OM's gf first and foremost. THAT might be enough to kill it.

Your marriage can survive her anger.

I cannot survive further contact with OM and an affair.

This will wear you down over time and literally do damage to your heart. It did to mine. My BP skyrocketted, as I'm sure yours is high right now. That high BP has enlarged my heart.

Contact OM's gf today.

JCB, I wrote a letter to the director of H.R. at OM's employer. I copied the CEO and General Counsel on the letter. Since my WW is not employed there, I couldn't play the "sexual harassment" card, but if you can work that into your discussion, it certainly turns your pea-shooter into a shotgun; no employer wants to be on the receiving end of a sexual harassment lawsuit.

Regardless, I wrote that I knew this wasn't a company concern, but that as a publically-traded company, they should know that investors do not look kindly on companies shielding employees who are engaged in illegal, immoral or illicit activities. That the very least they should know is that they have such an individual on their payroll.

I call that a "career-limiting move."

I found out later that OMW had actually stormed into his workplace and confronted him and others about another one of his affairs that -did- include another worker. As a result, OMW was escorted away and banned from the premises. I guess she got a little carried away, ya think?

So I'm just content in knowing that I helped punch another ticket on OM's Karma Bus ride...

Have you reached OM's GF yet? Make that your #1 priority THIS HOUR. Hire someone to find her, if necessary.

Plus, it gives THEM the chance to call up your family, her family, the priest, the friends, Protective Services, and tell everyone that YOU have gone bonkers and she's afraid for her life and you're crazy and accusing her of having an affair when she's not. How do you think those people will look at you AFTER that?

Found cell phone number, called (*67) no answer, generic message. Can't login to account need password...

She's gotta take a shower sometime.

You could always send her a message on FB. That's easy.

Oldest daughter searching wifes purse tonight late, while we're in bed....

HooooWeeee...my FWHs A took on a whole new look when his employer read the words "sexual harassment" on the letter HE got and called H into his office!

Exposure to the GF, whether by FB or some other means, should only be done in the context of exposure to everybody else. You can't do this in increments or it will be nuclear on YOU, not them!

tl

My plan, so far is this:

See therapist tomorrow
Get cell phone records (if possible)
Leave office early Friday (noon)
Call OM girlfriend
Visit WW mother
Go to wifes work..talk to dept supervisor, store manager, send reg letter to HR
confront OM
email blast all OM's facebook contacts
Call wifes sister
Go home, tell girls what I've done...
wait for wife to come home and repent (hahaha)

What do you think?

jcb,

Hidden cell phone, won't quit her job, won't take him off FB....I think the A is still going hot and heavy. The girl friend could be a smoke screen or the slime ball is cake eating with your wife and the GF.

I would go on the assumption that the A is still on.

AND as long as she works with the guy and "sees" him everyday she will still be getting her "fix" and the addiction will continue....and you, my friend, will stay a hinderence and obstical in her eyes.

Exposure to HR should end the A and if they fire her...all the better.

IMHO

kirk

You left out email blast all WW's facebook contacts.
Also left out calling WW's best friends and any other relatives she's close to. Once you start calling, you need each and every one of them on your side, and aware of what's going on, because she'll try to call people first and spin HER version - that you're a psycho and she's afraid for her life.

Yep, yep, and yep. And one more thing: pat yourself on the back for riding high in the saddle, my friend.

jcb,

""What do you think?""

I think it is a heck of a plan.

I just don't see what talking to the therapist has to do with anything. What difference does it make if she told him or not?

AND, he could save his hide by lying to you and telling you she did not tell him. It is still not going to effect the rest of your appointments.

This could be something you ask him later like "Oh by the way, my crazy WW said she told you she had the A but told you to keep it quiet. That's not true is it??"

I think all the other things on your list are much more important than the first thing with the therapist. Plus you don't want to be distracted by this.

Again, my humble opinion.

kirk

I think I'd inform work first, so that neither the GF nor your MIL can tip off either your WW or OM that something is going down. Also, those 2 visits might take quite a bit of time, giving more opportunity to warn the affair partners. I think that if either of them get called in to HR about this, they'll have all they need to think about for awhile, giving you more time to contact the others. That's what I think.

tl

Get a DVR and GPS in her/your car.

In case you haven't noticed....Waytards lie ALL the time!

Why are you bothering with OM at all except in the context of exposing to his girlfriend? He could care less.

...some people have said to confront OM after the others, some say not at all..........?

I think OM will have plenty of confrontations without you, from all the people you tell who want him to give an explanation of what they've heard.

tl

Just as an update...WW just called me on her lunch, crying and saying how awful she felt....I told her I appreciated her telling me that...

Still counting down to Friday exposure....

She will play you like a fiddle. Saying things like "How can I do this to my family?" "What is wrong with me?" "You have been great through all of this." "I love you."

Then... they turn on you... over and over again. Just be prepared for the emotional rollercoaster that will come. You have to be mentally, physically and SPIRITUALLY prepared for Friday.

She knows you... your strengths and your weaknesses. She will use these against you. Just be ready. This is WAR.

OH,

I know EVERY situation is different, and every OM has their own degree of PUTRID FILTH within their core existence, but I found calling OM to be liberating, empowering, and actually effective. Sure, the guy is already scum of the earth for taking things to this extreme, but hearing from the wife's husband has to take some of the allure off of it. Remember, we don't know what SHE is telling him.

Again, every scumbag/OM has it's own level of vomit to them, but that's just my take.

TB

I guess I can understand that. I know I had a burning desire to let OW know what a worthless sleazebag she is. I thought that about her before I even knew she was an old girlfriend of H's.

I just thing he has bigger fish to fry in short order and calling OM out can probably wait.

No need to confront the OM, that can blow up in your face...restraining order, harrassment charges, yada, yada, yada...

ok, I like this strategy. When you face the OM, I would tell him you know all about the affair and so do your children. Tell him you will be fighting for your family and ask him what his intentions are with your wife.

Why are you seeing the therapist? I am very disappointed with your therapist because he doesn't have the slightest idea what he is doing. It is very disturbing that he advised you to lie to the kids and did nothing to persuade your wife to end contact. That is outrageous.

Your wife is going to be angry, rcp, so you need to prepare for this. This is one reason that affairs should be exposed to everyone on the same day. So you only have to deal with one blow up and not several.

What was your wife crying about when she called?

p.s. you are DOING GREAT! So hang in there, friend. The hard part is half done.

rcp, when she called, did she say anything about quitting her job?

Alien Alert!!! Don't believe a word she says right now. She's working you and trying to do damage control.

If you felt empowered by making that call, good on ya. Just as a note, though: the OWH in my H's case was calling him - didn't mean a thing except to drive the A underground, or, as H said in a note to his OW, it made him "sorry he couldn't talk to her as much right then, but he was laying low" for a little bit until OWH calmed down.

Massive, explosive exposure was what did the trick.

No mention of quitting job...

She was crying about "how much she hurt me"

During her lunch break just now, she sent me texts that are very emotional:

"anytime you need to ask questions, I will answer them"
"You have to stop blaming yourself, it was me"
"I never want you to be hurt like that again"

I am trying to determine if she lied last night when she told me she told the therapist about the physical affair from the beginning. In joint therapy she vehemently denied the physical aspect and the therapist point blank told me she was NOT lying about this..

wayward wife to jcb: "I am going to consider quitting my job and I will block on my facebook, but only if you promise to stop telling people about my affair. If you do that, I can forgive you."

WATCH for anything that sounds like that, jcb, because a clever WW will turn to new tactics if demands and threats don't work. She already tried playing the "divorce" and "I'm leaving" cards, and they didn't work. When that doesnt work, they usually try new tactics to get you to stop interfering with the affair.

And I strongly suspect she is still very actively in an affair. I am not believing the "girlfriend" story. It makes no sense for a WW to be this adamant about not losing contact with the OM. A WW will typically go crazy when her OM "cheats" on her. I sure could be wrong, but I smell a rat. Is this "gf" a bud of your wife's?

Will she quit the job, jcb? Did her remorse include quitting the job, deleting facebook, and sending the OM a nc letter?

Your reply, if she does it again:
"Prove it. Give your notice today." Then hang up.

Will not quit her job. Deleting facebook not an option, everyone at work is on there, no need to send OM a letter there is already no contact aside form work...

Her story and she's sticking to it.

There really is a girlfriend. Again her pics and info are all over OM's facebook. She is a real person, I know where she works.

I forgot all about this, but about two weeks ago, my wife commented to me that the GF came in and went to her station to check out, when the other station right next to her was empty and my wifes was full. She said the GF kept giving her dirty looks, and she hoped OM hadn't told her a bunch of "lies" about her. I think the GF already suspects and is not amused...can't believe I forgot to mention that!

]
jcb, call her back and say "it hurts me very much that you continue to see the OM every day at work and then on facebook. Will you quit the job and delete facebook?"

Will you please call her right now and ask her this?

can't reach her until after she leaves at 7. I'm 30 miles away and she cant use her cell except on breaks...

She has a right to know the OM does married women and has no respect for marriage. What a bum!

I have only one question:

Why are you waiting until Friday?

Waiting until after you see your therapist makes no sense, because if what your W said 2 you is true, this therapist has no clue how 2 help a marriage recover from infidelity. Keeping the secret (doing what the WW "thinks" she wants) is NOT constructive.

So, now that you can safely remove the therapy session from your schedule, why would you wait until Friday? You say you're going 2 do all this after you leave work early on Friday? I have a hard time believing that there will be enough time left in the day 2 accomplish all that before everyone else goes home. What will you do if someone says "can't meet with you 2day, make an appointment for next week"?

I would think you'd want the defecation 2 hit the ventilation at work with enough time left in the week (like now) for the recipients 2 deal with it now, rather than have the weekend 2 try 2 forget about it and hope things will smooth over over the weekend. Also, I would think that you and your W could focus on each other over the weekend better, whereas if this happens Friday afternoon, your W will be thinking about what's going on in other peoples' minds all weekend. If you expose sooner, she'll know what they think before the weekend.

-ol' 2long

I don't understand why it's such a big deal deleting him off of Facebook. Sounds like she might be starting to get it but is still a long way off from getting it.

I agree with 2long!

One thing that just kills me is, while they are wayward, waywards have ZERO empathy for their spouses.

Mine refused to stop calling him.
Refused to take him off FB.
Refused to stop emailing him.
Refused to stop IMing him.

But she never refused with words. She always said "OK", then went and cheated anyway despite her words.

It's as if there's this brick wall between her Giver who wants to please you, and the Taker who wants to please herself, and the two don't ever do conference calls with each other. Expressions of empathy without actions to back them are completely hollow.

Don't wait till Friday. Do it now. The therapist is irrelevant.

I would also limit the work exposure to the supervisor and/or HR.

Otherwise you have a good plan.

Expect this one, "How could you do this? I was going to work on things but you just ruined everything!"

Check to see how remorseful she is tonight and how sincere she is. If she's not willing to do what is necessary to save the marriage, then she is lying and you should proceed to end the affair.

You're doing a favor to OM's gf by telling her, BTW. Don't expect her to believe you. I exposed to someone I saw my ex make out with (his live in gf) and she had already gotten his spin and was not willing to belive much.

So expect the unexpected, but one guarantee is her anger. It's going to be fury like you've likely never seen with veins popping out and venom spewing from her mouth.

Be calm and cool through it.

I think the GF will believe it after the story my wife told. That seems to be something she wouldn't lie about...why bring up the OM's girlfriend?

OK, hypothetically what if tonight she agrees to quit, delete, facebook, and end all contact?

Then you would ask her to send a no contact letter to the OM and commit to fixing the problems in the marriage.

In that case, the only exposure you would need to do is to the OM's girlfriend. And that can be done by sending her an email on facebook telling her about the affair and giving her your name and #.

When you speak to her, be a broken record about quitting the job and deleting facebook. And she will have to completely delete facebook, jcb, even if she blocks OM, she can unblock him in 2 seconds flat and will still be able to see him via any of her friends who are friends with OM.

Stop trying to guess what WW would and wouldn't lie about. Waywards will lie about all sorts of things you never dreamed of. Right now take everything she say with a grain of salt. You are falling into the trap of thinking your WW can't possibly be capable of this or that...stop. Continue with the exposure. I 100% agree with 2long. Why are you waiting? If the business trip is off, call in sick and take care of this stuff on Thu and Fri. WW will tell you whatever you want to shut you up...put her on mute.

jcb, why are you waiting until Friday? And how come you are going to talk to that useless "therapist?"

I honestly believe the part about the OM being really happy with the GF (read all his facebook, myspace, email)the GF being upset after seeing my wife confirms it.

In addition to her being mad, he is going to lose his mind when his "true love" finds out...haha!

I seldom post. My FWW had 2 PA and one EA. I am 12 years post d-day and mostly recovered.

I tend to agree with helpthelostdads. Don't blitz the whole workforce just yet. See how open she is tonight and ask all the questions you have. Explain again that you want her to end the job and even though instructing the WW in the reasons is usually not worth the effort, I think reminding her that whether she believes it or not, every time she sees the OM it will be a reminder of the A. If she is still unwilling to quit her job, then as helpthelostdads suggested, go to her supervisor and HR. Definately tell the OM GF--she needs to know.

I'm suggesting backing off a little because she has shown remorse (in the texts anyway) and it appears the actual physical aspects are over. Plus the last few weeks (prior to your finding the e-mail were very pleasant, as you have described them. I would only go the "nuclear" route if you find the cell phone is hers and it is still in use or she refuses to take the steps necessary to end all aspects of the affair.

From what you've provided she has made some progress although she is still dragging her feet on some things. You only confronted her on the physical aspects a day or so ago and if she's telling the truth, she was following the misguided advice of a therapist. I'm not forgiving her, but waiting another day or two won't change the outcome of a "nuclear" exposure and if unwarrented, it could set you back in your road to recovery.

I know some of this flys in the face of what you've been told, but all I'm really suggesting is move forward in stages based on the results of each action.

Best wishes on successfully recovering your M.

xring

I would still retain the keylogger, so I would be able to tell if she reactivated him.

Honestly, wishful thinking. She won't agree to quitting, i know my wife (sort of! ) she is unbelievably stubborn, even if there is nothing more to it, she will never acquiesce to what she sees as a demand...bizarre I know but that's her!

You and Melodylane posted while I was writing my prior post.

When you talk to her tonight, if she is "so sorry" for the hurt, try to explain that everyday she is at work with OM she is continuing to hurt you. Put the monkey on her back and ask her what her response would be. She appears to be in a vulnerable position right now, so exploit that for you benefit and help her to reach the right decision. Don't demand it though, you apparently know that that approach won't work.

The only additional info I have thus far on the prepaid cell is that in the past 18 months that cell was used to call my home phone on Aug 8 at 12:08pm....that number never called my wifes cell....the call came post original d-day and has never showed up again...why would my wife call the home number and talk to herself? I suppose it could be the OM's prepaid and I'm paying for it...don't know.

I am going to VERY nicely tell her how much working there bothers me, I'm not even going to ask her to quit much less tell her. If she is truly remorseful she'll quit....

If she quits, the excuse for having him on facebook evaporates...

Don't think she'll do it though.

If she agrees to quit the job, maintain no-contact-for-life with the other man, and commit to a program of marital recovery of your choice, what's the absolute best thing you can do?

Go somewhere together far away from home for 3 weeks solid while she's in withdrawal. Seriously.

Leave the mobile phones at home. Arrange for care of any dependents. Take emergency leave from your work, combining sick time and vacation time.

According to Dr. Harley, the most miraculous recoveries he has seen is when couples had a reason to be together 24/7 for the first month of withdrawal. It gives you an unprecedented chance to try to make Love Bank deposits, avoid Love Busters, spend Time together, and be radically honest with one another.

You probably won't feel in love with each other on the end of the vacation, and that's totally normal. She's still in Withdrawal, but the care you exercise on vacation will be a deciding factor for her as to whether she is willing to give it her all to repair what she has broken.

So if you can swing it... get the time off and spend 24/7 with her as long as you can. She's an addict coming off her addiction, and she'll need the support. She won't like you much for it, though, feeling like you're her "babysitter" (exact word my wife used for me).

If you can't swing that, schedule your 30+ hours of UA per week (yeah, I said 30+, not 15+... 15+ is for couples in a HEALTHY relationship!) to make sure you have as many opportunities as possible to make Love Bank deposits. Truly, you should be trying to reach that right now.

And during withdrawal, if it happens, avoid the affair talk as much as possible. Focus on the present and the future to avoid resentment... keep your "relationship talk" focused and at specific times if possible. You stand the least chance of it blowing up on you if both of you know when to plan to talk about fixing "relationship issues"...

jcb, I am going to have to disagree with xring here, a nuclear exposure is what is warranted in order to get her out of there. You don't bring a pea shooter to a gun fight.

An exposure needs to be nuclear in order to be effective usually, and you have already seen that just doing a little will not do the trick. Your plan is sound. When you do the workplace exposure, it needs to be done to the HR Director and both their supervisors. Additionally, exposing on the OM's facebook is an exceptional exposure that puts enormous pressure on the OM. Everyone needs to know how he operates at work.

So, please stick to your plan, it is a good one.

xring, he already has done this.

jcb, you must ASK HER to quit the job. You must tell her under what conditions you are willing to stay and work on the marriage. So stop this. You are going BACKWARDS here. Sitting around waiting for her to magically realize the error of her ways is a fools mission. You must ASK her to quit and to delete the facebook.

This is no time to beat around the bush, jcb.

Ask her to quit her job and to DELETE her facebook.

Still sticking to my plan, assuming she doesn't capitulate (!) tonight.

I will ask her to quit.

The hardest person to contact is going to be the OM, he probably won't take my call, no longer accepts blocked calls, and runs when he sees me...I may have to just be content with emailing all his facebook contacts.

You have to be honest and forthright here. You cannot wait for a fogged out WAYWARD to get it. Be a broken record, jcb:

"in order for our marriage to recover, you will have to quit that job and end all contact with your lover."

Then hand her this letter and ask her to send it to her lover.

[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

Barnboy gave you an excellent plan for recovery, so please bookmark his post.

Yeah. Sit down on Facebook really soon and write down the user IDs of all of OM's facebook friends and all of WW's facebook friends. Chances are good that once you start exposing, they're going to block you... but at least you'll have your printed list of IDs!

And they look like random numbers to any outside observer. But you just copy and paste them onto Facebook URLs (be aware, it limits how many you're allowed to email in a day, so plan to expose to the most important targets first). The URL is of the format:

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=[[long number]]

Most people haven't blocked strangers from seeing their profile (we have!) so you should be able to mail them to their Facebook inboxes even if you aren't their "friends".

almost all of his friends have their actual email addresses listed, and I've written all of them down.

Barnboy,

I just read your signature line, "Plan Doormat", haha, I thought I was the only one!

I could start a marriage builders forum, Plan Doormat in 10 easy steps!

Dear friend of Joe Scumbag,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of his friends should know the kind of person he really is. Joe had an affair with my wife, Sally, from Aug until September. I believe that his friends should know this, so you can protect your marriage from him. My wife and I have 2 small daughters and this affair has almost wrecked our marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify his parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
Thank you, jcb

I don't think you can claim that title anymore, friend! You have been very brave throughout this whole thing and HAVE NOT FLINCHED!!

Perfect letter, Melody. I will use it!

Thank You!

ok, maybe a little flinching, but you quickly got over it and got right back to work!

My plan after exposure, is to be sitting at the kitchen table with my 2 daughters when my wife comes home, and having us all tell her how much our family means to us, how she has to end this once and for all, and this was the only way to make sure it's over.

Then prepare for the ranting and raving......

Your W doesn't need 2 quit IF the OM quits instead! (or one of them gets fired).

You don't need 2 confront the OM. Just expose 2 the GF, work, and possibly the FB friends, and let the fallout do the rest. What will you tell him? 2 stop contact with your W? Think he'll just comply? He'll do what he wants, whatever you tell him. Don't threaten him, either. You don't want 2 set yourself up for an altercation that could put one or both of you in jail or the hospital.

You want him out of your life, not in it some more with a face 2 face.

Having said that, SH has been known 2 advise a confrontation, but I think it's important for people in such si2ations 2 know a little about who they're dealing with before they do confront. Are they prone 2 violence? Either 2ward you or their GF? It may not be worth the risk, is all I'm suggesting.

-ol' 2long

Also,

I have to say how much I appreciate everyones advice. I don't think I would have made it this far if I hadn't found MB. Some of you I feel I know personally , instead of in here!

Thank You so much for your help!

2long,
The OM runs from me so I wouldn't say he's prone to violence. I am a little worried that if I confront, he'll make up a story. One of the things my WW told the other man post d-day is that I have a ccw permit (I guess to make me look like a maniac) Don't want him making up a story about that...very serious.

jcb, confronting the OM is a good idea because it tells him you will stand up for your marriage. The Harleys DO recommend confronting the OP and causing as much trouble as possible for him.

That being said, if she ends the job you will have no need to do it.


You are used to it by now, right?

I agree with holding off on confronting the OM, things can get ugly quick and you want him gone. Me personally I don't think I could have not been violent if I confronted the OM early on. His gf gave me permission to kick his [censored] but luckily I was smart enough to know better.

p.s. leave your pistol in the da car if you do confront him! And I am not surprised the OM runs from you, they are always little cowardly weasels.

It's not having it on me that worries me...if he says I threatened him with it (which I wouldn't) the police WILL assume I did because I have the ccw, phone may be best for him...i could just spoof the wifes number that way he would think it was her at first....

Which again, not to beat it to death, asks why did she do this with him? Someone afraid to stand up for himself? It is a "little" cowardly to actively RUN away from someone, what's the attraction? Do they secretly tell each other later:
WW- don't worry baby, I know you could have killed him.
OM- yeah, he's lucky!

or something like that...just a big unknown I guess

Who knows why she chose him, but I do know that any punk who fools around with a married woman is a weasel. So it only follows that such a man of low character will be a coward too.

How old is the boy?

29. I'm 42, wife is 39.

I know it's stupid, but the age thing hurts, too.

Again, thanks for everything. Going home to see where we are.

See you tomorrow!

Expose on face book is great.

Exposing on FB and at work even better.

night, jcb! Hang tough. You are doing just great!

These are questions you could ask your W. Not the OM.

Deal breaker!!! She's playing you like a cuckold. Personally, I'd take a sledge hammer to the PC then tell her to Facebook her [censored] off!

Expose 20 minutes ago!

Did you guys ever see "Harry and the Hendersons"?
Remember the guy on the bike that got scared and fell off the bike and tryed to say that the Bigfoot knocked him off? Then he started crying "yes!! yes!!.. when Mr henderson calls him on his lie and makes him admit he was scared.

or

In the movie "Lies" when Arnold Swartzenger was going to throw the used car saleman off the bridge cuz he was hitting on his wife and the guy starts crying and pees his pants? lol

"Ive got a tiny weiner really, its pathetic" he says.

Picture those guys, then you see how worthless they are.

Hi,

Went home, had a great night with WW...very close.
Asked her to quit job, she said "do you really want me to quit" I said yes, it kills me every time you go to work. She said "what about getting the new house, we need the money" I said we don't need the money, I'll get you a job at my work" she said I have to trust her, and that there is nothing there to be worried about (!) I left for work saying that just won't work for me.

Appointment with therapist in 3 hours, counting down until Friday...

Thanks

Before confrontation put your weapon in your gun safe, and put the key in a safe deposit box at the bank.

All bank safe deposit boxes log in when people come and go...and the cost for one is negligable.

If the cops come, show them the safe and have them come with you to the bank.

This would also work if you don't have a gun safe, but have the gun locks...

>she said I have to trust her

To which you replied, "Trust is earned, not passed out like Halloween candy...have a cookie," right?

Good job! Just be a broken record, jcb, and stick to your plan!

Why would you trust an untrustworthy person? Trust is not an entitlement, she has destroyed your trust. So the next time she tells you this crap, tell her: "the trust in this marriage has been destroyed. Destroyed. But I can show you ways to regain my trust. Such as ending all contact with the OM, giving me all passwords on your computer and living a completely transparent life. That would be a good start in earning my trust."


jcb, is the same "therapist" who told you to lie to your kids and went along with your W working the OM? Why are you going to see him?

You might want to print out some articles written by Dr Harley for him so he doesn't make this same mistake with the next client. Your therapist is very unqualified to counsel marriages afflicted by adultery.

Never see or communicate with a former lover


misleading children

When Should An Affair Be Exposed? By Dr. Willard F. Harley, Jr.

No no no. She's given you NO reason to trust her!! Read my bio - the job has GOT to go!

Just a thought, why get a new house if shes going to divorce?

I would hold off on any major purchases until later on when you can actually see recovery in progress. (10-12 months) or possibly 1-2 years.

just saying...

Yea, that�s pretty much it.

My wife�s OM is poorly tattooed convicted felon who portrays himself as a "Bad Boy".... Truth is he is the biggest pansy on the Earth. My confrontations with him would have been almost comical if they had been under different circumstances.

But somehow he had WW convinced he was a real Bad-A




Now, I want to repeat a question that has been asked about 50 times but you have yet to answer.

1. WHY ARE YOU GOING BACK TO SEE THAT QUACK THEROPIST?

2. WHY ARE YOU DELAYING EXPOSURE UNTILL AFTER SEEING THE THEROPIST?

Totally agreed. I would put the brakes on that immediately. You guys have just taken a tiny baby step but still have miles to go. I've know people that have bought a new house when their marriage was in shambles thinking it would somehow make a difference and the added pressure makde things worse.

Waywards are so similar it's scary.

My exww had me house hunting with her while she planned her escape. Don't buy into the house hunting thing. It's a ruse. They're thinking in the back of their heads that they are the women, they will get the kids and the house, and you will pay for it all in CS payments after you're kicked out in a D.

House hunting is a fantasy. I was told by her, "I just wanted to see if my feelings would change while we looked for a house."

Don't fall for this garbage and stay away from it.

Also, everyone is bashing the counselor based on what the WW is saying about him. Odds are she is lying about what he said.

>They're thinking in the back of their heads that they are the women,

Thanks for that Dads.

I know when my fwh duped me into buying a car while he was still boffing the OW, that is EXACTLY what was goin' on in MY mind.

OI!

I'm sick and tired of the fingerpointing towards women...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again,

IT'S A WAYNERD THING.

Geesh.

I'm thinking these are the start of a new country/western hit song. . .Get out your geetar, Dealan!

House hunting is fine.

It's the house buying that's the potential problem.

You can spend lots of time together plan A'ing while looking at houses. It's a decent distraction from "relationship talk" and such. A time to watch your LB's and make deposits.

Just go into it with the presupposition that you won't buy anything until you actually sell your current home (and that means CLOSE on your current home as deals are falling through at the last minute all the time nowadays). Keep the price reasonably high on your current home and if it DOES sell...great. Then...consider a modest step up in home as opposed to the wayward entitled mansion your wife likely wants.

Mr. W

Creepy.
My sister's XH bought a brand new car, PT, and had us retile/paint/carpet their entire house 2 weeks before dumping A and D on her.
Guess he thought he was going to get the "free labor" as a freebie on us. <We went down to TN and all helped with labor>.

What happened? He kicked her out, lost his house (forclosure and bank repo'ed the PT) what a bum.

No offense intended. My exww had it in her head that she was the woman and had all the advantages in court. So yes, I think it was part of her plan to buy a house, throw me out of it, and then support her and the kids with CS.

In fact, it was what she was demanding recently when we did go to court.

I think a lot of wayward women convince themselves that they have the advantages in terms of divorce and custody.

They aren't far off the mark, but it's not as big an advantage as they believe.

Yes, it's a given that all waywards are idiots, but my focus is on helping men who are dealing with wayward women and helping them prep for the eventual court battle and to dispell and misconceptions about divorce and custody. I had it in my head that I was automatically going to lose because I was a man and nothing could have been further from the truth.

Please heed this great MARRIAGE BUILDING advise.

... so, is it safe to assume that you are not much interested in MARRIAGE BUILDING?

WH agreed to new carpet, flooring, TV... like he CARED about things that had been neglected in the past. He even planted flowers. AHHHHH... then he left. So don't put too much meaning into gestures. Actions speak louder than words -- but some actions are for show only.

This thread is one of the reasons I started that thread about using ICs and MCs who are not on board with MB program. I sense a freight train coming down the tracks.
My warning to this OP--my H's IC, who was also our MC, inadvertantly gave him a book to read that sent him back into the arms of his OW, so we had a false recovery.
The damage that woman did was immeasurable, and she doesn't have any idea...
From what I'm reading here, your IC is incompetent.

Pep,

I'm realistic. I've seen more divorces on this site than marriages saved. Do I think it's great if a wayward comes back and is remorseful? Absolutely.

But at the same time, a BH is playing with an emotional disadvantage in these situations and are in a state of hardball where if they don't shake themselves out of their emotional paralysis they get crucified in court. They get caught in this attitude of, "I can't believe she's doing this."

All the while she is indeed doing it and is legally slaughtering him in the process in terms of taking everything and alienating him from his children.

I've seen more cases of wayward wives on this site staying wayward and pursuing their fantasy than I've seen of them repenting and coming back.

The men who prepare for the worst do the best.

Plan A and follow the advice given on this site, but at the same time be prepared for the worst. There's too many stories here of BHs who have fought gut wrenching battles with their waywards (psub, erichh, mortarman, pom) to simply not advise men on this board to prepare for the worst.

Mortarman is a good example of a man who fought hard in court for custody of his kids and had his WW come to her senses when she saw the reality of the situation and how much she was going to lose in the ordeal. The fantasy wasn't matching up to the reality and it woke her up.

By all means, Plan A, Plan B and all of that. But be prepared to play hardball or get caught with your pants down. It happened to me because I was trying to be Mr. Nice Guy. It got me nowhere. It's a disservice to not share the lessons of my experience with other men.

Back from marriage counselor...

Told him what was going on, showed him wifes email to OM, and told him my wife said she originally confessed affair to therapist and it was his idea to hide it from me....

To say he was shocked would be an understatement....he never told her that! ASked her over and over if the affair had been physical and she denied it again and again. Said the letter sounded like trailer park highschool stuff.

Asked him if he was familiar with MB, and he was.

Told me to choose:
Demand WW quit job and terminate all contact. If not go to full exposure.

OR:

Leave her immediately before she destroys me mentally and physically.

He offered to see her, but I don't think she'd go now.

The scary part...he was very familiar with the fog, exposure, waywards, etc. He said this is one of the most abusive examples of infidelity he has ever seen, and frankly he's not sure if it's worth saving...

Then he is not very familiar with Adultery. Your WW is a garden-variety wayward. No better, no worse....

not2fun

Hmmm...I think it's a little drastic and non-serving for your MC to say that. You haven't even exposed the A yet. Quitting the job and NC have not been addressed yet. Heck, yeah, she's abusive. She's an alien! Let's all drag our former aliens out and compare abuses. Ha! We'll be reading responses til this time next month! Degree of abuse is immaterial right now. What's important is that you want to save your M. Keep going, jcb. Follow the plan.

Agree with not2fun. If you read up on this site, you'll see that your WW's situation is dull-normal as affairs go.
All of them are horrible, and to a non-MBer, none are worth saving.
Seriously, understanding MB principles and internalizing them are two different things.
Think of it this way--you've got kids involved. Do you REALLY want to let a parade of strange men come into their lives? Cuz that's what will happen my friend. Whether or not you get custody, these kids will be exposed to your WW's poor choices.
Isn't it worth TRYING to see if she can be salvaged? I know it feels HORRIBLE right now. I've been there--I know. But I have stuck it out because I don't want to wonder one day if maybe I should have tried a little harder, a little longer, for the sake of the kids.
Because this isn't about you. Or your alien wife.

I think your counselor is now taking this personally because of your wife's deception...
Too close to the situation, if you ask me.

Maybe he said it to make me feel better.

Anyways he agreed with "the plan"!

He also thinks WW is still physical with OM...

From what I have read it is absolutely typical...

Nothing less...

And nothing more.

Waywards lie.
Waywards sneak around.
Waywards attempt to shift the blame.
Waywards gaslight everyone.

It isn't so much what they do as it is what they are.

It comes from thinking with parts of the brain that don't process data but only feel stuff.

Mark

He said it to cover his a$$ and to keep you coming back.

Perhaps. He wouldn't accept any $ for the 90 minutes I spent with him, though.

Then he's definitely feeling personally vested. BAD sign.

>He also thinks WW is still physical with OM...

I think so too.

I also think you are waiting too long to expose.

ITA. You need to wrap this up. There is too much time elapsing here.

Your registration date is less than 4 weeks ago:





Thanks.
I wanted clarity.

Your purpose for posting here is not MARRIAGE BUILDING.
That's just the way it is.

I think you paid him EXACTLY what his services are worth......

TB

This is EXACTLY what we have told you. And she has refused to quit the job.

Are you on track now to expose this affair and get this ball rolling?

I do too. I don't believe the affair has ended at all.

ok, are you ready to launch the nuke and follow through on this plan?

Just out of curiosity, why do you think a physical affair is still going on? Therapist agreed, but said why he felt that way wasn't important?

Still on track Friday...noon...defcon 1!

It's all about her current secretive, defensive, wayward behavior. If she was no longer wayward, she wouldn't fear exposure so much, wouldn't fight to keep her job and stay near him, wouldn't fight to stay friends with him on Facebook, wouldn't keep coming up with insane justifications, and most of all, wouldn't be saying she wants a divorce all of a sudden.

That makes it so that the chances are good he said he'd only be with her if she dumped you, and she's desperate to get him back into her arms, or at least there with more regularity. Chances are good the OM is cake-eating with his girlfriend, too, and some part of her knows it.

Um, because your WW is lying so badly to keep her fix going?

Good going on getting the truth from the therapist. Would love to be a fly on the wall the next time he speaks with your WW!

jcb,
You don't probably know me. I don't post often anymore. I like to stop by and see if anything is catching my eye. Your post is. I don't know your story, but have read this thread. I will tell you the advice I have given a few BS in here over the years.

Stop being paralyzed by your own fears. I know it doesn't feel like it right now, but you have ALL the power. You are acting like she get's to make the choices for your life...you are wrong. You get to make the choices for you and your marriage right now. She committed the affair, you get to choose to let her come back to you. What are the percentages of success, who can say, but I believe your success is going to hinge more on your ability to forgive your wife and move forwards, rather than on her current actions.

How can I say this...well, because she still doesn't see any consequences to your activities. Oooh, he's suspicious (that's kind of fun -- texts you from work feeling sorry --[now, this is a bit brutal, but she probably had just gotten it in the broom closet]and was feeling bad......

When you get to the point when you are finally a bit angry, and just plain done with your wife in her current state, she will realize what she is LOSING ... cuz right now, she ain't losing it. Your actions don't pose any threat to her behavior, they actually encourage it, because they make it even more exciting. Quit listening to what she says, he says, your therapist says, or even what I say. Think about what you want and start behaving that way. How do you think your wife would be with you, if the situation were reversed.

You've been given so much good advice here...if you can't see that yet, then your probably not ready to take on the role of recovering just yet. You maybe need to focus on yourself more, and get stronger (mentally, and a physical tuneup won't hurt your self confidence at all right now --- which I personally now is shattered).

Hang in there, you can do it. You know she is the one who is doing wrong right now, don't settle for any other excuse or argument about that.

""You don't probably know me. I don't post often anymore.""

Yes but WE know you ROOKKEV Hope all is well.

You take it to the next level as usual.

He does have the power...the power of the HIGH ROAD.

jcb, read RK's post a couple time and let it sink in.

It should give you the stregnth you need my friend.

Stay strong.

kirk

My wife 'ended' the communication 3 times. Once, by stopping the texting and cell calls. Then, she vowed NC, stopped messaging via FB, but left him as a 'friend' - that lasted 2 weeks. Then, she eliminated him as a 'friend' and blocked him on FB, but kept her FB account. That also lasted about 2 weeks. Real NC started, marking the beginning of the end of the EA, ONLY when she DROPPED HER FB ACCOUNT and stayed off of it. All of the other times, she was merely putting the EA 'on hold' until she felt it was safe to resume.

Yes, I am continuing to monitor, but just her attitude tells me that this time it's for real.

Your wife is still engaged in the affair. If she was not, she'd quit her job and get rid of FB. I learned the hard way.

Remember what I said about waytards lying? I didn't mean just on their back.

Pep,

I've been on this board a long time. I'm all for trying to save a marriage when kids are involved. But I also believe a man should be prepared for the worst case scenario. So again, by all means, Plan A, Plan B, do everything you can to save it. But if a woman is consulting a lawyer and throwing legal terms around, it means she's prepping for war.

Having been there myself, and caught with my pants down, it is a disservice to have men like JCB NOT get advice on preparing themselves for the worst case scenario.

I've been on this board for years. I haven't seen too many WWes be remorseful and come looking for R. I usually back off of a thread at that point since I have no experience with dealing with recovery, but I know PLENTY about being caught unprepared for divorce by a WW who is educated on it.

JCB, if you don't wish to hear my advice, then let me know.

Great point JCB, The winner in this battle between you and your WW will be the one of you that can step outside your emotions and act for the Integrity of your marriage and what will effect your children. <<The innocent ones first. Then that person will have won even if they don't "Feel"like they did at first.

Okay, gotcha. You changed your ID.
You do what you do.
I gotcha there too.

>All of them are horrible, and to a non-MBer, none are worth saving.


Even to most MBers mine was not worth saving...but it WAS SAVED...and it's wonderful now...

But you know JCB, my marriage was NOT savable - no matter how much I wanted it to be - until I followed MB TO THE LETTER...there was no "tweaking" it or partialling it...it had to be the full monty or nothing at all.

Trust what these people are telling you. DO what they tell you...and find an IC that can't be snowblowed.

Kick it up to defcon 4.

Wife agreed last night to quit work and delete facebook....but acted like I was forcing her to do something she didn't want to do....

Until she has quit and deleted, you should continue with exposure. Her words mean nothing at this point. Do not back down now.

Great news - DO NOT BACK DOWN!

Was a NC letter in your specifications? If not, it should be.

jcb,

""Wife agreed last night to quit work and delete facebook....""

Talks cheap, brother and waywards lie.

You should forge on ahead.

Stay strong.

kirk

Yep, so did mine, and despite our bizarre back-and-forth in recovery, we ARE in recovery. With some work from a counselor (appointment with Jennifer from Sunday) and better enforcement of my personal boundaries, I have high hopes that my wife will recognize her wayward thinking and quit it.

Step 1 was that extremely reluctant, "you're twisting my arm" agreement to quit all contact, put in place extraordinary precautions, etc.

If she went back to work today, though... dude, she needs to file her notice that she's done as of right now, not in two weeks.

Talk is CHEAP. The only thing that is acceptable is action. When will she quit? Will the facebook be deleted today? And will she send the nc letter to the OM?

Also, the OM's GF still has to be told about the affair.

One of my best comical disarming lines I have used to difuse a situation
"Talk is cheap..and so am I!"

The curse is that from that day forth every time I see or hear "Talk is cheap" a little voice goes off in my head like Roger rabbit and says "and so am I"

Latest update..

Wife quit her job, gave 1 week notice...
Deleted facebook account entirely...
She admitted everything to our kids and told her mother..
Told me it was OK if I confronted the Om and girlfriend

We spent the entire weekend talking, she told me all the details I asked about (most wasn't as bad as I thought)

Anyways, we'll see what happens...

Very hopeful right now..

Thanks for everyone's help!

Well! I'm impressed! I was a little worried about you, jcb.

You changed from a SERF into a KNIGHT right before our eyes. Way to stand up for your marriage and lead your FAMILY!

Awesome! Sounds like a win to me. I love happy endings.

Sorry, no cute icons, but GREAT JOB!

JCB,

AWESOME BROTHER!!!

Icons, I got a bunch of steenking icons....

Glad to hear it.
Now, GET TO WORK on that recovery plan.
Your real battle is in front of you.
Stay strong, come here for support!

Trickle truth is usually a problem for recovery. WS usually lie.
Did she admit sex with OM?

Now the real work begins.

Best of luck in your recovery!

xring

She did admit to having sex with OM. Explained in detail. It wasn't as bad hearing about it as I has made it out to be.

I will be giving frequent updates, and I just wanted to say how much I appreciate all the good advice. I NEVER would have made it this far if I hadn't found MB and all the good people here. Maybe someday I can give someone in a similar situation a piece of good advice here and help them through their dark times.

Thank you so much!

Remind her that truth in dribbles drags out and delays your recovery.

Don't believe much of what you hear until she earns your trust.

Make sure she understands that the full truth now is better to hear than having it drag out over time. Your time will continue to piece things together and you will know in your gut when something isn't quite right.

Good advice

JCB Grats on the beginning of recovery. You will have ups and downs so come back if you needs us k?
Hope you are usin the harleys.

Are you kidding me? Just one 2x4 upside your head from the RookKev and you get your wife to come clean, quit her job, and delete accounts? My goodness, I must have perfected my swing!!!

All kidding aside, that is great news. Now comes the part I tried to mention. Your recovery is going to hinge upon your ability to forgive. Not necessarily feel like forgiveness yet, but ACTING like you are trying to forgive will go a long ways. Remember, she didn't end up where she is without you failing a bit on your part in the marriage. Don't expect a whole lot of 'good' stuff from her right now. It is a long slow road...decide that your actions will not hinge upon her actions or emotions for awhile (maybe forever). If you can begin to operate off of what you think/know, rather than what you feel, you will safeguard yourself from her mood swings that will come.

Good luck, and hang in there. (by the way, I think i'm just past 6 years of recovery now...and my wife's last comments to me the other night was she was so glad we have a marriage like we have...)

Awesome advice and so true.

Interesting to have read all the comments about ups and downs coming after we "figured it out"

I had a great day Monday, so-so yesterday, and not good today. Alternating feelings of anger (especially at OM, not so much my wife) sadness, depression and a feeling I failed to prevent this all from happening. Have not exposed to OM's girlfriend, and have not yet confronted OM. I can't shake that feeling of wanting to exact "vengeance" on OM, even though my wife is the one that was married.....

jcb, why have you not contacted the OM's GF? That needs to be done ASAP.

And of course you are angry at the OM, he had an affair with your wife, for crying out loud! He raped you!

You have been traumatized and assaulted by this affair so these feelings are natural. They are not going away over night. You are looking at YEARS. Sorry, friend.

It's a long road, and you've just begun your journey, jcb. Look at each day alone so you don't get discouraged. And I agree with Mel. Tell the GF. Don't worry about confronting OM.
Has your wife worked her last day yet?

I was thinking that since my wife quit (she has 7 days left from her notice), and told our family, it was unnecessary.

Here's the odd thing...while we were talking last night, she said one of the things that made her mad was that it was like he (OM) won...he gets to keep his job, his girlfriend doesn't know, no one is upset with him, while myself, my wife, our kids and family have been turned upside down. She wants to get back at him somehow, telling the girlfriend, getting him fired something..

Anyone ever hear that one before....?

It is ABSOLUTELY necessary. She needs to know regardless of the state of the affair. She should have been notified FIRST, jcb. PLEASE do not delay in telling her. This is a critical exposure that you cannot neglect.

YOU need to tell the GF yourself. Afterwards, tell your wife you told her.

I heard something similar from my FWW. When she and the OM finally decided to go to "NC" (some business contact was still required, as she was still working with him at the time), she did indicate some surprise that he actually held up his end of the bargain. It didn't take much longer for her to realise that he couldn't care less about her, and only did what he did "to find out what it would be like" to be with her. And yes, she did start to get a bit angry with him. Not enough to expose to the office what had really happened between them though.

My two cents: you're not quite there yet. Almost. She put in her notice. I would feel better if she called in "sick" the next 4 days of work, but it's moving in the right direction. Be ready for backsliding.

I was where you were -- without the sex, but the same devastation as the man actually PROPOSED to my wife -- just a few short months ago. Steel yourself, recognize that you've just accomplished the hardest thing in your life, but since she'll be seeing the OM for four more working days, be ready for her to be triggered and backslide.

It took my wife a month after promising no-contact to actually follow through with a letter, actions, and Extraordinary Precautions. Make sure you have GREAT EPs, including full access to her computer, all her passwords, no Facebook in the house, OM's phone number wiped off her computer and phone, all phone records snail-mailed to you, etc. It sounds like the OM truly isn't in the picture anymore except for incidental work contact since he dumped her some time ago, but you standing up for your marriage attracted your wife back to you. Way to go!

A couple months after real No-Contact day, we had a heart-to-heart discussion about all my exposure targets. FWW exploded and slept in another bed for 3 days.

A few weeks after that, I discovered a cache of photos of OM she was hiding on her phone & PC. I deleted them. She exploded, and slept in another bed for 3 days.

A week after that, I discovered 2 more photos of OM. I gave her the chance to delete them herself; instead, she hid them in a journal, then gave me a dog-and-pony show of deleting them until I found out the truth. She was furious that I discovered, and slept in another bed for 3 nights.

A month after that, I discovered two more photos of OM. She claims she didn't know they were there, but wanted to "test" if I was still watching her closely by leaving them. Whatever, I deleted them, she blew up for 3 days and... slept in the same bed as me, despite her massive anger.

A few days ago (Almost 5 months after D-Day, 4 months after NC-day), we had a meeting with Jennifer Harley Chalmers to help us get past these irregular blow-ups. We worked together to ensure that her PC, phone, and everything we owned was clear of any reminders of OM, and undertook "Homework" from Dr. Chalmers to improve our love for one another, and it's working wonders.

I say all of that to say this: you're about to embark on recovery, and it's a very rocky, difficult road, filled with unexpected emotional minefields that surprise you, motivational swamps that discourage you, and creative wildernesses that leave you wondering what to do. Engage help from the community, from pro-marriage counselors, and from the many books the Harleys have written to help you through these times.

Welcome to the fraternity. You're almost done with your initiation... get that no-contact firmly in place, and you're there.

You hold VALUABLE information that could affect that woman for life.

YOU.

Alone.

And you are keeping her from protecting herself against that POS. And any possible kids.

jcb;
If the situation was turned around, and the OM and his W(GF) found out about the A/ended the A/and were moving on- would you, as the clueless BS want to know?

I mean, you are empowered because you have the truth now.
You are leaving the BGF in the dark. By doing this she is not allowed to make real descisions about her life due to this lack of information.

She is probably your best ally in keeping the NC enforced. Two sets of eyes are always better than one.

Tell her, jcb. There are four people involved in this, not three. Two of the people have shown NO respect for her, whether she knows that right now, or not. Don't be a third person to give her no respect. She deserves to know.

OMW derseves the truth. Tell.

Is there still contact going on at work? If so, I smell a false recovery in your future. They have too much time to go underground...

Since Monday, they have only worked together once..for 2 hours. She works with him again Saturday for 4 hours. She keeps talking about how lazy he is, how he is a total loser and how she can't stand him...??

Absoultely no contact by computer, the prepaid cell phone did turn out to be my mother in laws. All her coming and goings accounted for...

So, the contact CONTINUES... And his girlfriend is still ignorant of the affair. What gives, jcb?

Hmmm...the referencing of OM, even if it's negative, is still referencing him. I don't like that.

See, that is my thinking...even though all references to the OM are negative, it's wierd that she mentions him at all...starting to sense something wrong...

Well you technically haven't begun recovery until the last bit of contact is concluded. She can't change her shift? She's leaving for christsakes. She should go to upper management or even call in sick the last day. This is insanity.

We are too. jcb, why are you refusing to expose this affair to the OM's GF?

CALL
OM'S
GIRLFRIEND
AND
EXPOSE

Can you hear me now?

What kind of business does she work for?

OM's girlfriend works as the asst. manager for the apartment complex that both she AND the OM live at....currently living together because he defaulted on his lease....

So What?

CALL
OM'S
GIRLFREIND
AND
EXPOSE

So what?
??
Didn't you ask me where she worked?

My bad, I meant your wife.

Have you exposed to OM's GF yet?

Just finished speaking to the girlfriend....she suspected something, thought it was my wife, but OM kept saying it was someone different....she started screaming that she thinks something is still going on, wouldn't tell me what before she hung up on me and can't reach her back...probably on her way to work to confront....

Good.

Poor gal.

Pat yourself on the back becouse

YOU
ROCK

Now, get ready, becouse WW is gonna be pissed, dont wory, it will pass.

Do not forget this line, "yes dear, have a cookie."

Pass the popcorn please.

Lots of real butter, and sea salt.

Just the way I like it.

>munching<

Good job, jcb!!

I guess this is what you guys mean by NUCLEAR. I hope it works out well for you jcb.

Pep, don't forget that while we've seen this a thousand and ten times, JCB is livin' it right now.

JCB - stay calm cool and collected at all times this weekend. If you feel your back gettin' up, walk away. She's gonna be a real pi$$er to be around for awhile, but trust that her wrath indicates that you gut punched the adultry a good one.

Nicely done, jcb. Get ready for some possible fireworks from WW. And don't worry about them for a minute.

OK.


JCB, the blow back is gonna be UGly.
This means exposure is ruining her adultery.

Good job.

TJ

Pep, I totally dig you.

End of TJ.

you have just awakened the dragon in your wife's little fairy tale


Good job

JCB,

If OM girlfriend is a good person, you just did her a big favor. You may have prevented her from getting STDs at some time in the future, becoming a betrayed wife, raising children without a father, finding out that he has run up enormous debt supporting some other woman, and etc.

At the very least you have revealed the truth to her.

NJ

As a matter of fact, JCB, her reaction will tell you JUST HOW FOGGY she still is.
When she "gets it," which will, by all averages, be YEARS from now, she'll thank you.
All of the FWspouses here will attest.
But yes, my FWH was P.O.'d when I exposed. He survived it. Of course, he told me at the time that our M was over and it was all my fault.... blah, blah.
Just remind her that this is HER doing, not yours. Natural consequences, my friend. She will learn.

WW just called, FLAILING.....

Said I totally embarrassed her, and I could have waited the few days until she left...

GF came in, called my wife a bunch of names, screaming at the OM,told him to pack his stuff, got herself thrown out....

Wife says she can't face anyone now and is moving out.....

No JCB, SHE embarassed herself.

SHE did this. She CHOSE this.

That she didn't think of this particular scenario when she jumped OM is HER FAULT.

Do not allow yourself to take credit for her lack of forethought.

Ever.

Yep.
Textbook.
She was clearly still cake-eating and is clearly still deeply fogged up.
She'll come around.
Almost every one of them does.
This is HERS to own.
At least she shouldn't have to finish her last few days at work, right?

No she wont.

Do not listen to anything she says right now.
Remain calm, polite, and respectfull.

So now EVERYONE at their workplace knows ....GOOD!

Wife is embarrassed because she's been messing with another woman's man, and everyone knows.

She's not gonna move out.

A little insight as to her saying she's moving out.

She has hurt herself (tho she wouldn't admit it to Jesus right now). She is lashing out in order to hurt someone (anyone) as much as she is hurting. It is not logical, but it is textbook waynerd.

I thought I'd tell you this in case you were doubting yourself right now.

I give you two thumbs up today, JCB.

Even if she "moves out," which is highly unlikely, chalk it up to a short-lived, teenage-style temper-tantrum.
You'll be glad you did this in the long run. My bet is they were still active, given the GF's response. She's horrified cuz you saw through her and busted her.

Keep it up JCB, you are doing well my friend and listen to what the vets have to say. They know what they are talking about.

Again? Didn't she say she was moving out last week when you interfered with her affair? Hard to keep all these idle threats straight!

Just be calm and supportive while she deals with the fall out of her affair. Don't let her upset you, you did nothing wrong. She will calm down. Hang tight, you did a great job!!

jcb,

You have just been promoted to dragon(affair) slayer!!

Good Job!!!!!!!!!!

All Blessings,
Jerry

I would think she no longer feels obligated to put in the final 7 days of her resignation at this point.

Jerry

You mean...GF went to the workplace and...caused a scene??? That is just too perfect - are you sure you didn't pay her? That couldn't have been more perfect!

You done good, jcb. Now remain calm. The tsunami has just begun. Remember Regan in the Exorcist, when she was possessed and all that nastiness was coming out of her mouth? It was because the Priest was pulling the demon out of her.
You're pulling out the demon. It may get ugly, but it's necessary. Stay calm and steadfast.

Ya think

The GF just called me, she wants to meet me in person tonight.....???

I say yes.
I met with OWH one time.
To cross examine each others evidence.

He knew stuff i did not.
And, visa versa.

[quote=jcb]The GF just called me, she wants to meet me in person tonight.....??? [/quote

What is your comfort level on that? OWH wanted to meet me, too. I refused. I was in shock, blindsided, the whole litany. The only way I felt any control was to insist on not meeting - to keep it to phone calls.

Do it.
Public place with lots of people.

Sure! Bring your evidence.

Yes to this. PUBLIC.

Be prepared for GF to hurl insults about your W.
Just let it go if she does this. It's a girl thing.

Congrats, jcb. You've just taken the first real step into recovery. She was deceiving you about being done with the OM if she was still working with him... and that made everybody here realize it was false, including you. The "7 days' notice" thing was total horsefeathers. Congrats on seeing through it!

Be strong. My FWW must have given me the line "couldn't you have just waited until..." a dozen times. Actually, no, I couldn't have waited. Every day she communicated with the OM was another day my heart was being ripped out of my chest. I had no interest, and no motivation to, "wait" while their well-laid plans to continue contact without my interference played out.

With any luck, OM will now not want to get near your wife with a ten-foot pole. For me -- and most others -- it was finally the exposure to the other man's spouse or girlfriend that did in the affair for good!

EDIT: Something to be ready for is that she will continue to say that she was "already separating from OM when you interfered" or something along those lines. Or the relationship was already over, or they weren't in contact and you were just being vengeful, or she had already said goodbye and you just made it hurt more. Be ready for it, be ready to ignore it, even though it hurts to hear her say it.

You're ripping off the band-aid to expose and treat the festering wound underneath. Just because she thinks she was healing and it hurt to rip off the band-aid doesn't mean she didn't need the treatment to cure the infection.

SECOND EDIT: I'd advise extreme caution with the other man's girlfriend. Don't let her deposit any love units with you. Limit yourself to contact only when you're aware of contact between WW and OM.

True, DoNoMo.
The other common line:
"Now you're pushing me into his arms. I have no where else to go (wah, wah)."
Waywards are such idiots.
Too bad you can't play this back to her a year from now when she's not all fogged up. She would be MORTIFIED.

SECOND EDIT: I'd advise extreme caution with the other man's girlfriend. Don't let her deposit any love units with you. Limit yourself to contact only when you're aware of contact between WW and OM. [/quote]

What do you mean?

WW just called, OM is all upset (he's losing his meal ticket)and she's "afraid" he's going to kill himself...I said it would save me the trouble....(probably should not have said that)...she did say "I understand you being upset, but that was vindictive...it's been over and I gave my notice..."

Any chance you could drive over to wife's work.
Come into the building with flowers, and give them to your wife.

Say loudly - "For the woman I LOVE"

Give her a big hug & kiss -

OM would craphispants.

LOL!



"The GF needed to be told, dear. Want a cookie?"

Don't engage your WW in discussions about your exposure. Lots of LB-ing await you down that path.

Wow, and we thought it was sorta "vindictive" to have an affair and screw around with someone's boyfriend and then lie to her about it! silly us!

Wife just called again, said OM is pi**ed, he's coming to see me...(he knows where my office is)

My wife BEGGED me not to talk to him because she was afraid of the "lies" he was going to tell about her to get back at me for exposing to GF....

Now, I'm not a veteran, but this sounds to me like my wife is afraid the OM is going to tell me something I don't know....

Should be interesting...I'm going to get a diet coke and wait for the show...

Wow

I suggest having security stop him at the door. Just in case.



Yup!!!

Awww, poor widdle OM!! Waah waah waah

Might as well hear what the OM has to say, as long as you know he's going to leave any weapons at home. Offer to meet him in a public place, just like the GF.
The warning you got was that some revenge affairs start between two betrayed spouses. Avoid heading in that direction.
OM will never kill himself. He's a loser who has no boundaries and thinks only about himself. Those people aren't suicidal. He has a better chance of getting lorena bobbited by his GF.

yep, it shore do!!


Have fun!

Do you have some kind of audio recorder you can use to tape what OM says?

Have another male worker with you, if you do not have a recording device.

Everyone left....normally I would leave in a couple of minutes, but I think I'm going to stay a little while...

A revenge affair is something I wouldn't do, so I'm not worried about that with the GF...

Good ideas!! You will want to play it all back for your wife.

If you have an iPhone, you can use that to record.

ahh, I bet that little weasel doesn't show!

My wife told me "I would never have an affair..." even while she was having one.

Be very careful. Extraordinary Precautions are not just for the wayward.

WHY IS OM CONTACTING YOUR WS AND WHY IS SHE TALKING TO HIM?? there should be NC in place she should not be responding to his calls and if he starts talking to her at work she should walk away!!

She is obviousely talking to him because he has told her he is coming to see you and he is suicidal etc. Remind her she should be in NC or trying NC while this is going on, your an adult and can deal with OM if he want to get angry at you he should not have been talking to your wife, tell OMG that OM has gone running whining to your WS and she how much she likes that piece of information!

You did the right thing, not revenge wise but morally right to let the Girlfriend know what kind of person she is dating. She needs to make an informed decision about who she shares her life with and you gave her that gift.

BH, they work together. Please read up!

I'm going to go home...I've been waiting for this POS for 45 minutes now....

Spoke to wife again, she seems to be calming down a little..said we're going to have a "serious talk" when I get home...I agreed (haha)

GF wants to meet at a local restaurant/bar tonight at 10pm...haven't told WW about that yet, I think I may go..

Good luck. When you meet the GF, make sure it's not in a "cozy" table or anything like that. An IHOP or a Denny's is better than a bar, but do what you must.

Tell your wife where you are going and why.
Tell your wife she can come too, if her intention is to make a sincere apology to GF.

Ooooh, I likeeee.

Why so late, jcb?? I don't know that I would agree to meet someone so late. That really bothers me.

ML I know they work together but unless he talks to her about work she should walk away from him if he tries to talk to her, he will soon get the hint not to talk to her, after all colleagues now aware of A due to GF turning up and screaming at them so really no reason to talk to OM.

BH, please read the thread.

Now, JCB, do you get what I was saying when I said you have all the power?

Who cares what OM has to say? Who cares what OM GF has to say? I would explain to her what you KNOW. If she has something constructive to stopping the affair to add, listen, otherwise, you really have nothing to gain. Do you really think she can give you better advice than what you are getting here? I'd bet my $5 no way. I think you can see by the responses here, and predictions... that affairs are quite textbook, and reactions to them are as well.

Inform her, as she is just now in the discovery phase. You are past that, but can help her move forwards also... and honestly, this may sound bad, but, there is no way I would encourage forgiveness of something like this in the dating phase. I'd tell her to cash out and move on. (and maybe use the experience to realize how she can protect herself in the future... (his needs her needs type reading)...

Oh, and OM show up? ROFL. I still fear the day that the Lord thinks I have the strength to deal with that encounter. It's actually one of my prayers, that I don't have to face that. (Along of reminding Him that I left my vengeance up to Him.)

Hang in there.

ML I have read up
"She works for a large retail chain. He is just another worker like her."

He isnt her boss he is just another worker, she is leaving the job so why does she talk to him at work??

Remember my WS worked with OW for a full year in a DIY retail chain but has avoided talking to her at all times. Once A exposed to colleagues they encouraged NC and helped NC. There is no good reason why she allowed him to talk to her at work!! if he approached her she should have walked away or calmly told him unless it was business related she was not willing to talk to him! I know she is still in Wayward mode but its a point JCB could bring up in later discussion that they agreed WW should not have contact with OM. Today she had contact with him when discussing GF discovery etc! If she had just kept away from him she would not have been worried about his "suicidal" state as she wouldnt know about it!

BH, I have no idea why you are obsessed with this. It matters not a whit if the OM talked to her; if they work together they are in contact ANYWAY. It makes NO difference if he talked to her. Today is her last day anyway.

I don't think any experience MB really thought it was over till she left work.

There is absolutely no reason for her to walk away from the OM if they are already working together. Contact is contact. It doesn't matter if the contact is through the spoken word, email, smoke signals, a visual sighting, spotting the OP's car in the parking lot, etc. Contact is contact. "Business" contact is contact. It is ALL THE SAME.

If I am an alcoholic, can I sober up by changing the name of my drinks to "business" drinks? Of course I can't.

So, it doesn't matter if she speaks to him at work on her last day. They were working together anyway, and therefore, IN CONTACT.

Agree. WE all knew the affair was still on and would be until she quit the job.

I actually could care less about what she does --- she's the alien, remember --- what I was impressed by was JCB's apparent backbone that developed really quickly.

I'm not intimate with how he has handled himself over the recent past, but it does appear he is responding fairly quickly to advice here. He weighs it shortly, but tends to act fairly promptly. I suggest we take that into consideration as we spout advice...sometimes we speak from pain, rather than solid advice, and that can cause real problems for him --- a real person experiencing this.

jcb is my HERO. He has stepped up to plate and done the hard stuff at every turn. Just go read the start of this thread and see how far he has come.

"GF wants to meet at a local restaurant/bar tonight at 10pm...haven't told WW about that yet, I think I may go"

Go, don't tell WW she may warn OM.

Well done JCB. How does having that spine feel?

I hope last night you acted with honor and did not get drunk with the POSOM's GF.

I had some reservations about meeting the GF and the possibility of a revenge affair.

Keep us posted.

Checking in...

What are you guys, fortune tellers? (haha)

Went home last night, WW had calmed down a lot, kept going on about the "embarrassment", I asked her she thought I felt...
Said the affair had been over for awhile and what I did wasn't necessary...I said since it was over, you shouldn't care...She was fine this morning when I got up....she did go to work, however, for her last day...

About last night...
I met the GF at Applebees, we got a booth (I know you said no booths)ordered a drink and started talking. What she has are mostly feelings...no evidence..I showed her some of my evidence (not all) and told her my timeline of how I thought the affair progresses. Come to find out, they had been dating since August....during the affair! I always assumed they started going out closer to the Oct. 9 email, supposedly ending the affair because of the OM's relationship with her. Here's where you guys were right...while she was crying she slid over into my side of the booth and started sobbing on my shoulder...I said OK, I think we're all set here...she actually said "don't you think they deserve to be paid back, I got up, left money for the drinks, and said No, I'm not a cheater, and you don't want to be either and left. (I also recorded the whole thing on my blackberry) I told my WW the whole story and she wanted to know what she told me, but was more interested in saying "isn't she ugly?" .....which she really wasn't.

All in all, it was weird , but I think I kept my dignity...

ps...the OM never showed up last night

Well its almost like deja vu when a new BH shows up. Same WW script.. same stuff said..

the revenge affair offer at applebees, its not uncommon,the betrayed GF needed to feel like she was wanted, and you seemed like a good target to get even with om.

The ONLY thing that suprises me on MB these days is the level the WS stoops to in their sense of entitlement.

Now its the weekend, do you have a roadtrip planned to go spend time with no "R" talk?

or anything else planned?

Another expose well done.

Continuing update..

Wife called, says GF is harassing her by phone, calling her names (wh*** seems to be the favorite) she left work (last day) and says she needs time to think, it's just too much for her to handle....she is so ashamed...

GF left me a message on my cell, saying she wanted to meet again, had more to tell me....don't really see how that one ends well...

What does that mean EXACTLY? "needs time to think?" Where did she go? Can you verify her whereabouts because if you don't know where she went, that is a problem. Is she coming home?


Yeah right. She can just tell you on the phone.

Tell her best to meet over the phone. If she has emails or proof send it to you. Thank her.

I would listen to what GF has to say, but you have to stay out of protecting your W from her anger.

Let the fall out of her A land on her shoulders. It wouldl be a good way of showing your WW that you have new boundries.

I would try to keep contact with GF at a minimum, do not bloviate about scenarios, "just the facts, maam."

She is another pair of eyes to help keep the A partners seperate, and she is prolly hoping for the same from you.

WW and I talked most of the weekend...seems to be going well...

Told GF I saw no need for further contact, she just kept saying she had to meet me, didn't offer any real info...just didn't like the sound of it..

OM never showed up (shocking)

Here's a question...as I said earlier, I have a keylogger installed...if there was some contact between my wife and OM by computer, I would know....but how do I tell her I know...?

Everyone says just tell her you know but don't tell her the source....remember my WW adamantly denied the physical affair until I quoted the email to the OM verbatim...

Again, you don't NEED her admission. If you find contact, you immediately confront her with it [give her just enough info to convey that you do know] and if she asks for proof, tell her you don't need "proof" to prove what you both already know. Don't allow her to get away with that manipulation tactic, jcb. Don't even ASK her, tell her you know.

If she tries to deny it again, just hold up your hand and say, "no, don't even try ... we are not going there again. Don't make it worse on yourself by lying."

I would stay in PHONE contact with the OM GF if you can. That is IF she has some relevant information to exchange. But I agree you should never meet in person again. She sounds like as big a loser as the OM.

""She sounds like as big a loser as the OM.""

She gave the OM the boot! She's lonely

What if it's a set up, to seduce jcb into a tryst and then expose to the WW???

Keep in touch by phone, unless the OM and she did split up. Then there is no reason.

imho

kirk

I kinda think you have to be a loser to fall in love with a loser.

But that's just me.

All blessings,
Jerry

Stay away from her! It's either a setup - you lose - or else she's determined to have a RA - you lose.

shine ... well then you are posting on a board of losers... cuz we are ALL here because either we cheated or our spouse cheated.

update

Hi,
Long day at work (still here)...

My WW and I have been spending time together (when I'm not working) lots of texts and phone calls otherwise...

No contact with OM by PC or cell....(as far as I know...?)

Now I just have to deal with the fact that my wife of 17 years, the mother of my children, and my best friend had a months long love affair with some guy, 13 years younger than me she met at work....which is easier said than done.

jcb, it's not that tough. Just pick up the corner of the rug, grab a broom and sweep it under.

Honestly though...it's a whole lot easier to fix it once she actually quits talking with --[or having sex] with the OM. You will have some rough days, but, after awhile of keeping your cool, you will start having good days too.

-hang in there

jcb-Have you read Surviving an Affair yet? Check it out from the library if not. And schedule a session with Steve Harley. Good luck!

My FWW had an affair with a guy 24 yrs younger than me so I can relate to your feelings. In time, it becomes another event in your marriage. Somehow, you learn to accept it as a game changing event in your marriage, yet by choice, you can still go forward and try and rebuild the marriage.

To this day, I don't know all the facts nor do I completely understand why it all had to happen, but it did anyway. You never see your wife the same way, yet you can still go forward and rebuild.

Yeah, my FWH had an A with someone 22 years younger than me. They don't like someone smarter than them, I guess.

This is uncalled for and cruel. Many BSs are fine people who were fooled by their WSs.

I think you may have taken that the wrong way Z.

I don't... and you'll see I replied to that idiotic drivel as well. If they meant to say you have to be a loser to cheat on your spouse, I could have accepted that, to some degree... but to lump in a victim with a transgessor, that just seems cruel and unusual.

Hmmm....
I just got back to this and revisiting what I said, I can see how making that statement without clarification of any sort, could easily be construed to mean that i included BS's in that definition.

So let me unequivocally state that was not the intent of my belch!!

Since I am a FBH, that would of course include me, and for the record, I didn't feel that way then or now.

Just goes to show how the tongue can be a double edged sword when that was not you intension. Thus, I apologize to those who may have been rightfully offended by such a quip to mouth.

As far as being a loser, all WS's are losers when intrenched in the fog of their A, as they lose everything of value in their M and usually affair down to a person(OP) who truly is a loser by my definition. Any person who interlopes into a M is a loser in my book.

Hope this clarifies a bit and mea cupas to those I may have offended by not explaining myself a lot better.

All blessings,
Jerry

You bet. And I had a pretty clear idea of what I thought you meant to say. So, no real worries. All's good.

Ok, ok.
But where is our original poster?

I'm here.
Nothing really new to report...

It is very strange to have the keylogger installed and have access to everything my wife does on the computer..her emails to family and friends, web searches, etc. I know the reason I have it, but that kind of monitoring is just strange...

Things have been continuing to go well, although I have a lot of uncomfortable thoughts about the affair...

OM never came to see me (lucky for him..haha)
GF keeps calling and emailing me, she keeps wanting to meet. I don't answer. I told her if she had any new info to email it to me and I'd call her.

Any questions I've had, wife has answered.

Still paranoid...although i'm (almost) sure I'w wrong.

Thanks!

The paranoia will stick with you for a bit, JCB. Be alert for signs that your WW (hopefully, soon-to-be-FWW) has resumed the affair using other methods. Here's the typical list:
1. Pay phones
2. Pay-as-you-go cell phones
3. Library or other shared computers outside the home

Expect accountability for the entire day. My FWW and I have actually made it a daily ritual to talk about everything we did that day, starting at 8:30 every evening. As a betrayed spouse, this habit has HUGELY helped me feel better about our relationship. It was a practice recommended by Jennifer Harley Chalmers because I have such an obvious need for openness & honesty... she suggested that it's really my #1 emotional need right now, and my experience with FWW meeting it consistently is that Jennifer was RIGHT!

Unbelievable!

Two days ago my wife told me that the OM tried to contact her by IM on Yahoo....she said she did not respond and I thought it was great she told me....I even sent him an email telling him to stop all contact....

Today, I checked the keylogger and this is the email from my wife to the Om...

"Hey did you try to reach me through Yahoo Sorry about the Email from XXXXX was in my office unfortunately when it popped up.. Didn't think you would want to chat with me. Let me know whats up OK I'd like to chat with you again unless your to scared Me"

Not only did she contact him, not only did she tell him she wants to start "chatting" again...she made up the entire story about me seeing the email....she told me....??!!

Want to pack up and get out NOW!

Are they still working together?

No, she works with me now....(great idea, I know...)

Everybody has a breaking point, that moment when the cup is full and starts running over. If you've reached that point, nobody could blame you for packing it in. If you can stand it, though, you might get some valuable ammo by silently watching just a little bit longer. But not if waiting and watching is going to make you blow a gasket!

tl

I think you need to confront her without telling her how you know. Just ask her why she is contacting OM and playfully asking him if he is afraid of her?

If she denies it, just tell her that she knows it and you know it. Reiterate that this contact puts you back to day one.

I relate to you situation. I had a very similar issue with my WW.

Becareful that any hint of how you got the info may send WW underground. She's going to be very curious about how you know about and she's going to change her MO. So you may lose that source if you aren't careful enough.

Addittionally, confronting her can easily turn into an LB fest. She'll deny it so there's not much to gain. BTDT.

I found that it was more effective to request WW to delete her IM and Facebook accounts. She'd ask me why and I'd just answer that I didn't feel safe with her using the same methods that were used to conduct the affair. You just re-stablish the EPs.

So your initial approach could be: "Honey, when you use Yahoo messenger or Fakebook it makes me unconfortable, how do you think we can solve this problem". The idea is to avoid acusing her. You just state that it brings confusion and hurts you to see her using IM.

Even though it was quite a challenge to get WW to agree to stop using Fakebook and Massenger, this strategy got better results than confronting her with info obtained from snooping.

--ElCamino72

jcb, don't confront her just yet. First things first. Contact the OM's GF and give her the email. Then call up the OM and tell him to stay away from your wife and that you know what he did.

THEN, sit back and wait for all hell to break loose. Once your W finds out you know, tell her that IM has to come off her computer or it is time to separate. AND....tell your kids what she did.

p.s. if your wife asks how you got the email, tell her that is "NUNYA."

What's that in foreign?

Think it is how they talk in Texas - none of your #### business.

Is that the answer, believer, or don't you like me?

LOL, that's the answer!!!!!!!! Really. That is how they talk in Texas. Went there once.