I have phone records from the last three months from my husband to a co-worker one month was 30 pages, just phone calls, not text messages. He has his phone bill going to her house, I confronted him and he told me I was crazy there was nothing going on, he left the house at 8:50 pm on Christmas night to get a snack and talked with her for 15 minutes before returning home. I want this marriage to work but I am not sure how to proceed when he keeps denying everything.

You need to record the conversations and then expose to everyone.

What will that accomplish? Don't you think he would hate me for doing that and leave anyways?

As has been said many times by the vets on here, your marriage will survive his anger but it will NEVER survive infidelity.

My WH started with a friendship for 2 years with secret phone calls and everything. Now he left me and our 2 children and moved in with OW. I wish I would have found this place 2 years ago so I would have known what to do. Read up on everything you can on here and listen to the vets. They know what they are talking about.

Cherrychip, I am reminded that not only do wayward spouses (WS) all talk from the same script, but so do newly-minted betrayed spouses (BS). I dare say that every single BS that has come to this board has uttered that very same line.

To which the answer is: Your marriage will survive temporary anger. It will not survive an affair.

Please let the veterans here help you get through your own fogginess. That's the difference between us and the WS: We are an ARMY. They are simply aimless grunts wandering through the fog.

Please find the book "Surviving an Affair", by Dr. Willard Harley Jr. and read it ASAP.

You can get it at the library or overnight it from Amazon.com or from this web sites bookstore.

I would guarantee your H is in an Affair. I'm very sorry.

I am very scared, I want to beleive what he is telling me even though I know in my heart it is not true. He could loose his job for doing this, he is the manager, not only that but he calls this woman the second he leaves our bed at 4:45 am in the morning. I think I am loosing my mind. We have a beautiful 2 1/2 year old baby girl. I am scared.

Will this book help me and give me the strength necessary to move forward? I am sure I am not the perfect wife so I have tried to use some of the information from this website to keep the conversation on track but it is not working.

CC, I am sorry you here. Strength is a choice and that will have to come from within. You can decide to be strong and take steps to save your marriage.

Your H is having an affair. The solution is to get the evidence on your own and then expose the affair. Stop asking him and start snooping. Put a voice activated recorder in his car and record his conversation. Or if he uses a blackberry phone, you can install flexispy on it.

Stop confronting him. Gather intel and do not reveal your sources. You know who and where this person lives since the bill is going to her house, correct? Is she married and what do you know of her?

Originally Posted by black_raven

Stop confronting him.

Exactly

or

EGG ZAK LEE

Cherrychip, you have found yourself to the best place possible to help you deal with this. I say it's a club no one wants to join, but it's made up of some of the best people on earth!

First, take a deep breath. Take another. OK?

Now, here's the deal: This is Marriage Builders. And this site is dedicated to helping people make the strongest, most solid marriages possible. Many people like us come here because our spouse has gone outside the marriage, leaving us devastated, insecure, frightened, feeling alone and helpless.

Know that you are NOT ALONE. The "army" of MB has now been recruited to your side. We now outnumber you H and the OW by a factor of multitudes.

You should take the time to read the links to the right of the screen and familiarize yourself with the Basic Concepts and Plan A and Plan B. Once you put a plan together, the fantasy of the affair will begin to diminish rapidly.

But time is of the essence. That is why you must stop thinking for yourself and let the experienced hands like MelodyLane, Pepperband, Mark, and more guide you. Trust me (please!), these people have all been there, done that and have the battle scars to prove it. Even better: they are proof that the principles here work!

In short, Plan A, which you should start yesterday, is two-fold: The "carrot" part has you being the loving wife WH married and wanted to raise kids with and spend his life with. This is tough on you, because it requires you to put away your "Taker" and be the "Giver" 100%. This is why Plan A is time limited.

The "stick" part of Plan A has you donning a deerstalker hat, pulling out the magnifying glass (a la homage to Sherlock Holmes) and snooping, prying, uncovering, listening and otherwise doing things a "normal" person would find unseemly.

But this is not a normal situation. It's WAR! As soon as you have as much information to conclusively show the facts of the A, it's time to "go nuclear" and EXPOSE, EXPOSE, EXPOSE. You go to everyone and anyone who might have influence over your H. Relatives, co-workers, friends, bosses, etc. You also find out if OW has a boy friend or husband, and EXPOSE to them, too. You do this in one fell swoop WITHOUT TELLING YOUR H YOU ARE GOING TO DO SO.

This will case rage and blather, as you have no shown the light of truth on the nasty lie that is the fantasy of A. This can be the death knell of an A. Even if it is not, is throws reality on it, which starts to rupture it. Dr. Harley has learned that 95% of all affairs die of their own accord, because they are not reality based. Plan A is meant to hasten that end.

But Plan A rarely is enough. That is why there is Plan B. I will leave discussion of Plan B for later, as it's critically important that you learn and understand how Plan A works and start working it NOW.

Let the pros here do the thinking for you. Put yourself in their hands, and if you do, you have a very good chance of recovering your marriage!

I think this thread might have some ideas about voice activated recorders you can hide in his car. They sell them at Radio Shack. here

I could use some help, he does have a blackberry but he has a passcode and he never ever leaves it laying around, he takes it with him everywhere. I could do the car thing but could you help me with that? How do I go about doing this? I feel like and idiot. I am humiliated, and the worst part is he still claims to love me and wants to be intimate. He took this person away on sweetest day weekend.

Well, of course he wants both of you, cherry. It's called cake-eating. WS just looove to have two people filling ALL of their needs. It's the fantasy romance he's got with her, while you're covering his domestic/reality chit, making sure clothes are washed, the baby is clean and cared for...whatta life, right? Selfish but true.

Nope, you're going to need to end that business. Listen to the info the vets on here will be giving you about how to break into his blackberry, etc. And do it. Be ready to EXPOSE. Don't worry about his job. He obviously doesn't. Please PLEASE read up on exposure and be ready to implement it! Read my info - it's what ended my Hs A.

Wait a minute, he took the OW on a trip?

My wife's EA started much the same way - phone calls and text messages. Then it moved on to heavy messaging on FaceBook. It was only when I gathered hard evidence via a keylogger and then exposed did she agree to end the affair. We are in the early stages of recovery.

I give you this quick history for two reasons - 1> get as much evidence of the affair as you can (does he use to computer at home?) then expose it. The affair has to end as soon as possible. 2> my situation got much better and I understood what was going on so much clearer after I found this forum and started listening to the people here. Not only the vets, who's advice you need to take, but all of the folks here because we are just one big (sometimes) happy family. You will find help and support here!

As has been said, you are now in a war. Get ready.

Yeah - he did WHAT????

Yes, I have no real hard evidence of this except for the phone bill. He called this person every day several times a day, called her when he left that morning and did not call her again until he dropped her off on Sunday. He never once called me the whole weekend and I had to have emergency foot surgery. I did use a keylogger and that is how I got his password for email and that is when I got a copy of his phone bill. The mailing adress is the co-worker he is having an affair with. I would love to find out how to tap into his blackberry but when I say he does not leave it laying around, I mean it.

I'd say the mailing addy is the evidence...

And why does he HAVE to admit what you already KNOW?

Expose it all...and to his work, too.

Look at his credit card activity for his trip. You have an address and name of OW...I'm not sure what you are waiting for him to admit. You never answered my question...is OW married and what do you know of her?

The phone bill isn't quite enough... it took a voice-activated recorder to nab my wife.

It's easy.

1. Go to Radio Shack with cash in your hand -- around $100 should do it -- and order one of their cheaper digital voice-activated recorders. You want digital because analog ones make noise when they start recording. They have the Olympus brand recorders as cheap as $30 most times.
If they don't have it in stock, they have a site-to-store option that gets it there pretty quick. The Olympus vn-5000 is your cheapest option at $30 most times. You can record around 300 hours with it, and the batteries are typically good for 25 hours. Buy a handful of rechargeable AAA batteries and a cheap charger, too.

2. Charge the batteries and use some Velcro to mount the VAR somewhere near the steering wheel. Most cars have a "false front" just above the pedals where you can stick the VAR. Practice with it to make sure that the Beep setting is off (it can be set to "beep" when it's recording), that it records silently, and that you know it's turned on.

3. Here's the scary part: setting up some kind of schedule to swap the batteries every day. You need to be able to get into his car, change the batteries, and escape unnoticed. If he's up at 4:45 AM, that means he probably goes to bed fairly early. Do you stay up? If so, that's a perfect time.

4. Once a week or so, download the VAR audio logs to your PC or Mac and listen to them.

Look, a voice-activated-recorder in a vehicle typically nails them the first time, almost every time. They are never expecting it, particularly in the car. But it also takes some work on your part, because you get to listen to a lot of radio time and random chatter.

In some cases, it's even caught the lovers having sex in the car!

dang, Barnboy, that is an awesome post! Can you post that on Spying101 if I bump it up?

thanks! Mel

I know that she is not married. She was married and had an affair with a co-worker, he was married also, they both got divorced and continued their relationship. I recently learned that around sweetest day she kicked him out.

Why isn't the phone bill enough? And just to be sure we are all on the same page, enough for what? To confront? There may be no smoking gun of a PA but WH is still in an EA at the very least.

Cherry doesn't need to confront WH and shouldn't. He doesn't not need to admit to anything when she already knows he's in an inappropriate relationship. I agree with you that she should keep snooping but am unclear where we disagree. KWIM?

Would you mind checking out the Olympus vn-5200pc digital voice recorder and let me know what you think. He does not go to sleep early, he is usually up till 11 and sometimes later. I am guessing since these are not voice ativated that the batteries must be changed everyday is that correct? I am guessing I will have what I need in a day or so.

Olympus vn-5200PC is OK. The "PC" designation means that it comes with a USB cable to allow you to transfer the files to a PC or Mac.


Having a PC sync is VERY, VERY worth it. You can then just email the critical conversations to a private email account with a large quota (think "gmail", for several reasons I could go into but won't) in order to store them forever.

Downside to that recorder: while it's cheap, it's not voice-activated. Which means you're going to get hours and hours of silence in every recording, and you still need to change the batteries every single day. I bet dimes to donuts you have all the evidence you'd need to convince a jury he was having an affair within a few days, but some waywards are more circumspect about conducting their affair anywhere accessible to their betrayed spouse.

VAR gives you much better battery life. Depending on drive-time of the vehicle (which will activate the VAR for sure), you may get days or weeks of recordings on a VAR in the same space you'd have one day on a non-VAR recorder.

If it's a problem doing it when he can't see, then no problem. Gather your velcro and scissors and whatnot and just drive to his work to install it there, some time when there aren't many people in the parking lot. But I bet you'll find a time when he's napping or otherwise unavailable that you can make an excuse to take the 5 minutes required to plant the VAR behind the false front.

You may get some bad recordings to start, too. People have had success in many other areas of the vehicle, too... just make sure it's somewhere he's not likely to check.

There is also voice-activated recording for PCs, too. You can just plant a laptop in a room he tends to use to conduct his affair conversations when you aren't around (usually his favorite spot in the house), make sure to disable all the power-saving features, and then you have a VAR with virtually unlimited recording capacity.

An iPhone or iPod Touch left in a convenient location can do it, too. I used a product called "mVoice" for some of my recordings. It has trouble picking anything up further than a few feet away, but it's still useful. Particularly for when you expect a confrontation with the spouse and need evidence for later...

Yes, Melody, I'd be glad to post some tips on VARs.

Upon hidding the recorder in his car, I received conformation of his affair. I was praying that he would end this on his own but he did not. I finally confronted him on Saturday and he again denied it. He is telling me it was just infatuation. I know this is a lie as I herd everything. He moved out and I am just a mess. I wanted him to come clean and tell me everything so we could move on and I could begin to heal. I asked him waht the ow said and he said he did not tell her he did not want to get her involved. Well, I received the phone bill and he called her the second he left the house. He is still sending me I Love you more than you know text messages. What do I do now?

Did you expose?

Did you Plan A until he moved out?

OF COURSE he says it is infatuation. It is. But it's deep. And anyway, why is he infatuated with another woman when he is married???

EXPOSE, if you haven't done it already!

I exposed to him and all my friends, I also exposed to his sister, I was planning on confronting his parents this weekend. I have set up an appointment on Monday to meet with a lawyer. If he will not admit it how can we ever begin to fix our marriage? I found out about this in October of 2009, I confronted him over a dozen times. Do I respond to his text messages? I do love him very much but I can not take him back until he begins answering my questions and telling me the whole story.

I know everything there is to know about this woman, I have not exposed her yet. Although she knows I know.

Next step.....expose the OW. Sounds like she is a serial adulterer, having affairs with married men!

And expose to other friends of your WH who might have influence over him.

I am so scarred. Will this feeling ever go away? I know I sound like I have no backbone but this is my life. 12 years and I am afraid of the backlash I might have to put up with by exposing her when I should not give a hoot!

I was scared too. And yes, there will be backlash. WH called me every name under the sun and told everyone I was a complete psycho. Turned it around on me so badly I regretted it......for about a day!

Now, I don't regret it at ALL. My marriage is nowhere near fixed, but it would be MUCH worse if I hadn't.

Think of it this way:

OW has no scruples about wrecking your life and your M. What backlash are you afraid of you - your WH's or hers? Because why are you protecting her from her mistakes? And if it's WH's - well, I'll tell you what many have said to me. Your M can withstand his anger. It CAN'T withstand infidelity. And I have read posts of FWHs being thankful for the exposure.

I know your right. I also have another issue, I know who her live in boyfriend used to be but I was told that there was another individual in the mix along with my WH. What do I do about that? I dont know who it is but I am trying to find out.

I am having a hard time as I keep looking and waiting for some type of text from him for some love or hope or something. Do I text him at all? Do I tell him I still love him or do I just not communicate at all? It is so hard, I am feeling really low today!

Does OW have a FB page? Can you find all of her friends and expose to them as well.

You should do exposure at once to have the maximum effect.

Why haven't you told your WH's parents? What do they think is going on?

Yes she has a facebook page but it is private, how can I expose her? His parents do not even know that he left the house. I confronted him and kept asking him to stop, lost 115 lbs tried to fill up his love bucket in hopes that he would stop.

I unfortunately went into plan B in a way that is not supported. I had a melt down, I threw the recorder at him and said I was done. I tried to then talke with him and said that in order for me to begin the healing process I needed to have all the details. Thats when he went into the BS about it being just an infatuation. He said they had made a deal...the deal was that he would leave her alone. The phone records show different. Also they are incoming and outgoing. She used to be his employee and has been transfered to another store.

This gave me some hope that he was trying to end it but really it just allowed them to continue and for him to keep his job.

I guess the reason I worry about exposing this is because even though they do not work together now he could loose his job and if that happens I know there will not be a chance that we would make it, and I would not be able to financially survive without his support.

Okay, I don't really understand what help I can offer you. What plan are you in? You say that you went into Plan B but that you are talking to him? I don't understand.

Have you read all of the info on here? What do you need help with?

I guess I need to know if he is supposed to know about Plan A and Plan B. And in Plan B, is there supposed to be absolutely no contact? How does that work with children involved? How will he know that I still adore him, that I am sad and lonley and I miss him terribly?

What have you read on here? Do you have the book Surviving an Affair?

You need to read. You registered here 3 months ago. These questions you are asking are basic. It leads me to believe that you haven't done the basic work of READING.

When you have finished reading and you know what plan you are in, ask questions then and we will be happy to assist you.

He doesn't need to know about Plan A or Plan B. If he doesn't know about MB and the fact that you are on here, I wouldn't tell him yet.

Plan B is ABSOLUTELY NO CONTACT.

When you have children together you get an Intermediary and deal with each other that way.

He doesn't need to know that you adore him, are lonely and that you miss him. HE DOESN'T CARE.

I am so sorry, I am having such a crappy day! I am so heartbroken, I am typing and crying at the same time. I am going to buy the book. I told him a while back that I was reading and on this site to save our marriage and that I was getting great information and ideas. I am just so sad and emotionally a train wreck.

What does Personal R in works mean?

personal recovery is where you work on yourself as opposed to the marriage. Finding new fun activities, buying new clothes, getting a hair cut/colour, doing things for yourself that build you up.

Its a way of building up your self esteem after the beating it got from finding out about the WS's affair.

Thank you! I just ordered the book. I think I need to have some Personal R. I hope I can stand strong!

Cherrychip, you started posting here back in January and were given some very good advice. I don't know if you followed it.

The marriage will not survive with three people in it. The only way you have a chance at busting up his affair is to expose it...wide and far. And since he's already moved out, if he doesn't come home after the affair is dead, or if the affair goes on after exposure, you go plan B. Read up on it. You STOP fulfilling any of his needs. Let his OW try to fill all his needs. Sooner or later, she's going to start lovebusting him...reality will intrude on their fantasy.

He doesn't need to know about this site. This site is your weapon right now. He shouldn't know about your tactics until you enter recovery.

Right now he is wayward. Waywards will tell you ANYTHING. They will lie, cheat and steal.

I did try and follow it, I collected more evidence and kept bringing it up and he kept denying it. Then I went soft had hope that he was going to stop. Again hid the recorder and blew on Saturday.

Your so right, I need to stop filling his needs, I send him pictures of our baby and I need to stop it! He choose the OW over me and our baby. I am making this easy by being nice. I wishe there was a strong pill I could take...I keep putting off the exposure because of upcoming events. Mother's day, his mom and dads 50th anniversary....they will never forgive him. I also know that he will choose the OW over his parents!

Cherrychip,

You need to start follow the plan outlined here in MB. You are in emotional mess, following te plan helps you start thinking straight.
You already started right thing by collecting evidence. But the next step should have been the exposure (and by exposure we mean not to tell WH, he already knows he is cheating!).
Exposure targets are (copied from MelodyLane's post here )

OWH
OW's parents, your parents, her parents
employer if a workplace affair
children
close family and friends
pastor
the OW's facebook page will be a very impactful exposure - you send out a letter to all his friends


Please stop thinking about yourself as a fortune-teller. Rather think this - when in the future you ask from yourself: "Did I do everything to save my marriage?" and the answer is "No, because I didnt want to ruin WH parents anniversary" - then how weak excuse that would be?

Focus back to the plan and expose properly.

recon6mo, Your correct, I hope my book comes today. Also I called and asked to meet with his parents. I would rather do this face to face. As soon as that is over I am going to blow it up on facebook. I am also going to call the OW significant other. Going to be a long weekend full of conversations.

I still have one more question, he is picking up our daughter from day care today to spend some time with her, should I sent him a message telling him that in she is not to be anywhere near OW?

cherrychip,

You haven't done a very good Plan A. Plan A is only meant to work on its own 15% of the time. That means most of the time it is meant to leave the WS with good memories of the BS when you move to Plan B and the WS now has to depend on the OP to meet all of their ENs.

Throwing the phone, constantly begging him to end the A, crying is all highlighting you in your "betrayed" state ~ not attractive and makes the OW look even better.

My advice to you is to do a very short stellar Plan A (maybe a week or two) while you are getting your Plan B lined up. If you feel you cannot do it that long, even for a few days would be better than nothing.

Here is Mr. W's list of do's and don't's of Plan A. Study it, read it several times a day, before and after each interaction with your WH:



If you decide to go this route, remember, Plan A has no expectations ~ that means he will be continuing his A, just accept that and try not to control that part of it.

You said OW's FB page is "private" but can you still access her friends list?? If so, let us know and we will find Melody's template to send to her FB friends. You need to expose this homewrecker ASAP.

cherrychip,

As someone else said you started posting in January 1 and all this time has gone by.

You keep waiting for your WH to fill your ENs.

Understand this, which took me forever to understand. Right now he is not your Darling Husband...he is an ALIEN. He walks and talks like your H but once the A started everything he will tell you is a lie to protect the A.

You can not reason with him, guilt, cry, all the tactics you used before in your M. Will not work and all it will do is reinforce that he is picking the right person (not you).

You know he is having an A, He knows he is having an A. Why do you need him to verify this? To prove you are right...STOP.

Your best opportunity is to expose at WORK. Like you I delayed and by the time I did it was already too late. I am divorced and my XH is planning on marrying the OW in the fall.

There are letters on this site to send to HR. Your H could always get another job. Like you I was terrified about him losing his job, being embarrassed, financially and the list goes on.

If I had acted immediately and not given them more time to go underground I might still have my M. I will never know.

You need to take action. Stop worrying what your H is telling you.

How do you know when a wayward lies? when they open their mouth.

SusieQ, Yea, I did not follow the plan completely. I did remain positive and put on the happy face, the only thing I did not do was expose it. Which I now know is a must.

He has already left the house but he sends me texts and calls,tells me he misses me and wants to come home can I still use plan A for that?

There you go CC, you have a PLAN now. EXPOSE and Plan A.

Any questions on that?

You will need to go to Plan B soon though. Your plan in Plan A is also to get ready for Plan B. So when are you going into Plan B? Pick a date(1-2 weeks from now).

Until you go to Plan B, of course you may respond. Tell him that you love him too. Don't acknowledge the rest. Your Plan B letter is going to specifically outline a plan for him to come home. Be nice, be pleasant. When you are planning on seeing him, look great, smell great, have a big smile on your face. Touch him a lot.

You want to leave him with an absolutely positive picture of you before you shut out all the lights and go pitch black.

And get ready for his anger when you expose. DO NOT RESPOND TO HIS ANGER. He will accuse you of everything. He will tell you he was ready to give up the OW and come home but now "you ruined everything".

Trust us, whatever he is going to say to you, at least 20 people on this forum have heard similar statements. They all read from the same script.

Don't respond to his anger. Change the subject. Offer him a cookie.

Yes ask him back or even if he doesn't come back you can still do Plan A. Pls check OWs FB page and let us know if you can access the friends list ASAP.

Ok, so I exposed the affair to everyone, the OW boyfriend, his family and his work. He has been moved out since May, I am now getting his anger...the worst ever, said I have ruined his career.

He says there is no way to repair the damange now, says I have turned his family against him.

Am I now at the bottom, I am hurting so bad I have asked him again to reconsider working on our marriage...I cry constantly...how do I get through this....

What is your plan? Are you in a SOLID PB? You first came here in January. 8 mos is too long for PA plan (?).

Why are you "getting" his anger? PB is zero contact. You IM should be filtering out this stuff.

You realise by now that you "sad sacking" all over the place is NOT going to bring him home. Your pain means NOTHING to him.

Why are you here now? What can we do to help you devise a plan?

Don't you dare take the blame. YOU didn't ruin his career and YOU didn't turn his family against him. HE did that 100% HIMSELF with his lies and adultery.


Girl, you stand up and put on your armor. You are fighting for your family. He is trying to bully you into backing down and shutting up, and it's working. Don't let him do that to you!

I do need to put up my armor, I am scared, how long does it usually take for them to come back when there is no contact with them? What do I do in the meantime? When do I begin to actually start healing?

I do have to meet him a few times a week and drop off the baby and it is so hard! He said all the way up until Friday that he wanted to come home and I kept saying you have to break all contact with OW. On Saturday he said it was over and will never be right.

I definately understand that Sad sacking is not getting it, neither is anger, I am I supposed to be indifferent?

CC, you did a great job of exposing the affair! But you must promise to not burst out laughing when he goes into fogbabble mode with you and says silly things like: "you ruined my career," "I was going to work on the marriage, but....."

Even though you know that is silly and insane, it would be a huge lovebuster to burst out laughing. So if you feel like laughing, put him on mute and then do your laughing.

In the meantime, I would finish up any other key exposures so you get your money's worth! Did you expose to all key people? The OW's facebook, her parents, his parents? Everyone should get the good news! Spread the good news!

Then tomorrow I would sit down and work on your Plan B letter and go into a very dark Plan B. That means you will need to get an intermediary who handles ALL contact between you and also someone who will facilitate child care exchanges. You should slam the door shut and not have any contact AT ALL anymore.

And I want to applaud you for the great exposure! His reaction tells me you hit a major nerve!! Bravo!!

cherry, here is your motto for this week:

LOUD AND PROUD!!!

His parents know all about it. They hardly speak to him, I dont know about the OW parents but I when I exposed to OW boyfriend of 9 years his response was that she broke him with him the same time my WH moved out.

He went on to say that unless I have a video he will beleive that she has been faithfull because she has more guy friends and is very unpopular with the spouses of these men. This even after I told him I had phone bills and had them on tape.

MelodyLane, do you really think I struck a cord? He was so outraged when he phone me yesterday I could actually hear him spitting into the phone!

What if he does something crazy like filing for divorce? How long did it take you when you were in plan b?

He also said that they never had an affair but that they were now dating.

I really needed this support today! I have been a mess for days!

Pretty sure that "dating" while still married is AN AFFAIR.

If he was angry over the exposure, you did WELL. I WISH my WH was angry over the exposure. Didn't get much bang for my buck.

As far as Plan B, have you read about it at all? You will go into Plan B with a time limit for it. DrH suggests 2 years. This is mostly because MOST affairs die a natural death within 2 years of exposure. You would go into Plan B and attempt to wait out the affair. If the affair didn't end, or your WH didn't meet your conditions within the 2 years, you would be mostly healed and be ready to move on.

I am almost 8 months into my Plan B and I can tell you that I still have a lot of love left for my WH. I am as dark as I can be and I have NO CLUE what is going on in affairland. It doesn't matter to me, as long as WH isn't trying to recover, then I don't worry about what goes on over there. I feel more at peace and my emotions don't go all over the place.

If your WH files for a D, you could drag it out as long as possible. I have a friend whose XH dragged out their D for almost 10 years. There have even been people who have remarried after a D. Just relax. Breath and get your plan in action.

you are at an advantage here since your WH has NO PLAN and you are going to use a plan that was created by a DR. You will be fine.

Scotland...your first comment made me laugh, yes dating while still married is an affair even if we are not living together.

My friend is going thru the same thing and I lent her my book is there a place on this forum to find a basic plan B letter? I did read the book...the whole thing and that is what made me strong enough to expose.

I also have another problem, the dropping off and picking up of the baby, I don't have anybody that can or will do the drop off and pick up of the baby.

8 months into plan B? I am so sorry, I have read alot of your posts, you are a very strong person, I hope at some point I will be as strong as you, right now I feel like melted butter.

I also have to meet him tonight to drop off the baby!

WHO told his parents? YOU? Or him? If it was not you, then i would call them and tell them the truth and ask them to use their influence with their son.

I would also find out who her parents are and notify them. Does she have a facebook account?



You did a wonderful job!! The more angry, the more effective your exposure! I only hope you didn't laugh when he started babbling.



NOW DATING=ADULTEROUS AFFAIR

I will post it below.


When you are not exposed to him anymore, you will feel stronger and happier than you have in months.

Can you not find someone to do these exchanges with your baby? What about your babysitter? Who watches the baby?

My Dear Sue,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with Greg possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with Greg once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. Our friends Jane and Paul have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through Jane and Paul.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Greg, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Greg and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing Greg.

With my love,
Jon

cherrychip, today when you see him, please heed my warning and do not LAUGH when he starts babbling at you. They are so ridiculous just after an exposure that this is easier said than done. If he starts making threats, demands, etc, just smile and say "I'm so sorry you are upset, dear."

Don't laugh, don't argue, don't debate and don't waste your time trying to reason with a falling down drunk.

You are going to have to figure out a way to have the baby exchanged where you CAN NOT see your WH AT ALL. You have to have ZERO contact with him in a true Plan B. You can't half azz this. You can come up with something I am sure.

you see, your WH, like MANY wayturds out there, is a cake-eater. It is good for you because MB concepts work WELL on cake eaters. Another thing that you need to understand is that for our WH to be a cake eater, he needs to have BOTH of you. He wants BOTH of you. If he thought that OW was EVERYTHING, he would have left you right away. He knows, somewhere deep down, that OW ISN'T all he needs. You were and you can be again. But while in Plan B, you want to remove YOURSELF and make OW meet ALL of your WH's ENs. Everytime that you have contact with your WH, you actually STRENGTHEN the affair. Now, why would you want to do that after you do so much to try to end it?

So, brainstorm and come up with SOMETHING. Do you have a friend, babysitter, family member that you could drop off the baby and then your WH would pick up from there? Even someone who could come to your house, not let WH in AT ALL and hand off the baby? Start brainstorming. There are even services out there that you could pay to be drop off points. It's what they use in court systems for abusive spouses. Things like that.

When you meet him tonight to drop off the baby, look SMOKING HOTTTTT. Smell GREAT. Be sweet. SMILE. It will KILL but until you are in Plan B, you need to keep up this acting. Your WH will get confused. He may even get angry. DON'T ENGAGE A WAYTURD. When he asks you about your exposure, you calmly say, "I will do whatever is needed to save our marriage, hot out today isn't it?" If he becomes angry or abusive say, "I will talk to you when you have calmed down" and walk AWAY.

If your WH had NOT been angry at all, then you would have had a reason to worry. You did the right thing. Just keep planning and know that there will be an end in sight, when you enter Plan B.

I switched computers and lost my bookmarks. I will try to find the Plan B letter for you. I know it;s on y thread somewhere. I tried to find it quickly but now the kiddos are crying for FOOD. Guess I should be a mom and feed them, eh? HEHEHEHE

MelodyLane, I exposed to his parents, I also talked with them last night and told them how mad he is because I told the OW boyfriend, his dad laughed and said you stired the pot good honey!

He also said they are only hearing one side of the story...but what other side is there? I wish I would have had the tools to keep my marriage alive but I did not, but I never cheated, never even crossed my mind!

They are all coming over on Saturday as our daughter will be 3 tomorrow. I did not invite him.

I did not laugh I actually wish I would have...instead I did the whole I still love you and want you thing! Dang it! Even today I said I loved him and would be waiting....what the heck!

Mel to the rescue as always. What would we do without her? Shudder at the thought.

There is only one side to the truth. That is great that you have told them the full story.

NOW.............what about the OW's parents? Who are they? Does she have a facebook account?

Hon, if you want to make it you are going to have to really stir it in the affair and make some trouble. Exposure is your best weapon but you have to use it!

Have a lot more peace, that is for sure!

She has a facebook account but I dont see her parents, I only see the boyfriends side of the family!

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all your help and support. I do look smoking hot everytime I see him, I make a point of it and he is always gropping me, on Wednesday he asked me to go behind the Red Roof Inn for a romp, I said no!

Thats when I got the message on Friday that it will never be right!

Thats when I told the OW boyfriend and it just got worse from there! I got the whole you ruined my career and you should see the way people look at me at work and talk and blah blah blah then the part about me turning his family against him!

One more question, do I email the Plan B letter to him?

I will work on finding a person to make the exchanges....my side of the family wants nothing to do with him and my older kids from a prior marriage are really angry!

Go through the list and try to ID all of the boyfriends family, her family and ALL married people. COPY HER FRIENDS LIST INTO A WORD DOC. Send them a private email that goes like this [modify to suit your situation - send the emails ONE MINUTE APART or facebook will think you are spamming]:

Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.
I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
Thank you, BW

Yes, you can. But you will then need to block his email address after you send it so he can't reply.


Won't your family help with the exchanges if they know it is for your sake? Do your older kids live with you? And if so, could they carry the baby out?

Also, you will need a good, NEUTRAL intermediary that will act as a spam filter to do all communication between you both. Do you have someone who could do this?

I only have a sister and she won't be in the same area code as him. They all hate him for what he has done and I can also say that if he was to come back, I would probably loose my family.

I do have a very good friend who will be by my side no matter what decision I make.

Yes, my older kids live with me, me and WH have been together since my kids have been 4 yrs old but they are so angry...my daughter left the house and said she would move out if I let him come home, this comes from alot of influence from my sister.

Lord what to do?

ok, did you read my post? Will your children do the exchange for you?

And will your friend agree to be your intermediary who would pass on any pertinent information?

Worry about the fallout from recovery AFTER your WH decdes to come home. Right now, you need to do everything within your power to follow the MB plans.

BTW, the people are looking at him the way they are because of HIS actions. It is NOT because of your exposure. He was already doing these nasty things. He is mad because you made everyone aware of it. He is not having any fun getting "high" in front of the whole world.

My daughter who is 17 will not do the exchange because she will not be nice but my friend would do it for me.

Worry about the fallout later, that has been on my mind alot! What will these people think of me? Will they think I am weak and stupid?

My children will not do the exchange but my friend would and she would pass on any information between us.

If you decide to take him back he will have to apologize to them and assure them he has your best interests at heart. He would have to prove himself.

I hope your right, I just sent him a text to ask if we were still on for 8, he is always late for drop off and pick ups. Wish me luck!

I will let you know how it goes when I get home, it is about an hour or so drive!

Thank you again for all your support, as I said earlier, I so needed it! I wish there was a book on how to mend your heart!

He doesn't take your baby around that vile ho, does he? How old is the baby?

Yes he does, she has kids and today my baby said I have to pack a sucker for Dalton which is her son. The baby will be 3 tomorrow.

She also said that daddy can not come home because he has a new friend. makes me nuts!

I did not tell him she said that and I was debating about it...what do you think?

ok, I would not put up with this, CC. Your child should not be exposed to his filthy affair. The OW is an unfit adult. What many of the folks here have done about this is to file for divorce or legal separation and get it specified in the papers that there be no contact with the WS's adultery partner.

hon, you need to start putting your foot down. You don't have to hand your DD over under these circumstances without a legal court order.

Do you have an attorney?

I agree completely, I do not want my baby anywhere near the OW. If I file for divorce isn't that defeating the purpose?

Since I am now moving into Plan B completely, do i continue with gathering data? I still have his password and just today I received his July phone bill. This is how I got the information before.

Not sure if this is helping me at this point.

So I polished up my Plan B letter today. I did talk with my friend and she said she would do the exchanges for me if necessary. I was wondering what your thoughts would be if I just allowed him to come to the house and get her, when he arrives, just put her on the porch?

All of his stuff is still in the house but his cloths, do I start packing his stuff?

Post your plan B letter to make sure you have everything covered, there are people on here who can help you with that.

Here is my Plan B letter. Also have to add, I am having a party for our daughter with his family tomorrow at 2, I did not invite him, I received a message from him this morning asking if I wanted him to get a cake or do something for Saturday. Since I did not invite him I am wondering if this is his way of saying I know your having a party and did not invite me or is he planning on comming??????


My Dear Rob,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with Terri possible. I foolishly neglected my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with Terri once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. Our friend Cathy has agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit Sylvia whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit. If you want to communicate about Sylvia or any other matter, it will have to be through Cathy.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Terri, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with her. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Terri, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing Terri.

With my love,
Pam

CC, I would take out the part that says "I will not be here" because you don't want him in the house at all. In fact, the locks on your doors should be changed so he doesn't come in. Having a WS come in the house during Plan B is a disaster.

Otherwise, that looks great!

What do you think about him attending the birthday party for our daughter tomorrow? I did not even invite him. I also have not sent the letter yet.....

Plan B was working for me until today, I have had no contact with him and the last few days I have not cried myself to sleep! i even joined a fall softball league!

If I understand this right, and you have NOT given your WH the plan B letter yet, you should (if you are forced to) make the party the FINAL and LAST moments of your P.A.

At the very end of the afternoon (and I would have "another activity/engagement for DD - Matinee perhaps?) I would, in person hand your WH the letter and tell him goodby.

Leave him with the memory of a happy family, let him think about you as strong but independant.
(no hang dawg looks, no gossip, look your best and pour positive energy to your DD.)

If you absolutely can not do this, you are going to have to not see him, and call for a PB. DO NOT make a Jerry Springer moment out of this.
That would be terrible for your DD

Did you already give him the letter? I didn't know oyu were in plan B.

I've been reading along with this thread, I don't have anything to add, you've been given good guidance, but I wanted to say I'm wishing you the best at your daughter's party. Stay strong...and yes, indifferent is a good word to be.

The party was a success...his whole family was there, he showed up and even grabbed my behind, he was polite and so were we. He made me very nervouse though, it was like he was casing out the place...walking around from room to room taking notes.

Our DD asked to go home with him, he said no he would see her on Sunday, he was to pick her up at 5 yesterday, I received a message at 5 10 pm that he was at the doctor.

He called me several times after that, I told him it was to late to get her now, he was two hours late.

Received a few text messages saying he was sorry, wanted us to work but we werent meant to be togher both of us werre not happy, u looked at me with disgust daily.

The next one said sorry for the wasted years i spent on the couch pissing u off and letting myself dia a little every day!

I did not respond to any of them!

I am glad that the party went well, it will be a good ending to your Plan A. Are you ready to go into Plan B?

It was suggested that you do it after the party. Are you ready to go completely dark? You will need to block his messages and not read or listen to anything he sends. He is going to be ANGRY and he is going to try to break your Plan B. You need to get yourself ready. You CAN do this.

Make sure EVERYTHING is figured out BEFORE so you won't need to have any contact period. He is very foggy and it is very taxing to talk to someone like that.

He is very foggy, that's what makes me so crazy! I am completing my final plans this week for plan B. I am ready to go completely dark, I need to start healing.

I just can't decide if I want his parents to be the go to person or my friend Cathy, I feel like I am putting them both in a bad position. Did you ever feel like that?

Sorry I didn't get to respond until now. Yes I did feel bad about putting the IMs in the middle. I still do at times but they want what is best for all of us. They would LOVE for WH and I to save our marriage and they understood that this was the best thing for me and for my boys. The IMs I picked are a couple and they have been friends of ours for over 10 years. They are so close to us that our kids call them grandma and grandpa.

The best advice that Ian give you about picking an IM is that the person needs to be the best for YOU. They have to understand what their role is in this. They need to be willing to be the go between for you. They also need to keep you dark too. They can't go around telling WH what you are doing/saying. They need to be able to detach.

Staying DARk will be the best thing for you and you will start to feel much better the darker you stay. If you aren't going to do pitch black that would be WORSE than not doing one at all. Stay as dark as night. You CAN do this.

So does this mean you haven't given him the Plan B letter yet? I thought you were going to give it to him at the end of the party.

Cherry, I wouldn't ask his parents, they are not suitable for this position because they are not neutral. You need someone who can be completely neutral.

And it is not a bad position at all if it is done right. If done right, it is the easiest job in the world. All she has to do is pass on ONLY pertinent information in her own words. For example, if your H says he will pick up the kids at 5:00 and you are a *B* for not speaking to him and you are so immature and how can we resolve anything if we don't speak???

A good IM would contact you and say: Joe will pick up the kids at 5:00, is that ok?

She would IGNORE all the fogbabble and only pass on pertinent information. If your WS contacts her and says he wants to discuss reconciliation, then she needs to TEST his sincerity. [have her email me at ohmelodylane@aol.com and I can help her]

Show her this thread about the intermediary's role: Intermediary Training School

Thank you Melody, I will do that, I will print off this information as well.

I did not give him the letter after the party, I did not check this thread at all until this morning so i missed the message to give it to him after the party.

My friend would do the job perfectly, I agree that his parents would not be a good choice. I did ask them how he found out about the party because I did not invite them and the swore that they did not say a word. Hard to know at this point!

An IM's job is the easiest job in the world as long as you don't engage the WS and let him bait you with fogbabble. It only becomes hard when an IM loses her neutrality and engages in a fogbabble debate with the WS.

It is so easy to pass on a message like "Joe will pick up Sally at 5:00." or "the girls can't come at 3:00, how about 5:00?" Or "sorry, but that message can't be passed on because it is not in accordance with Cherry's letter of MAy 25th. I would be happy to pass on any pertinent info about the kids or finances. Hope you are doing well. Thanks." Easy, easy, easy....

An IM is nothing more than a neutral message bearer. Nothing more..

CC, other important considerations will be to prepare for him to try everything to get you back on the farm. He wants to get his needs met by TWO women so he will not like it when you go dark. He will not like losing control of you.

He will attempt to get through in every way. It is critical that you don't let him through, because if you do, he will know you are not credible. And that is the last message you want to send to a WS. He needs to know you are serious.

So I would have a plan in place to block him if he tries to:

1. call you

2. text you

3. come in the house

4. email you

What are your plans to block all contact? And keep in mind that reading his texts, emails or listening to his voicemails defeats the purpose.

I plan on entering the dark stage before Friday, I want to review the information with my friend so that she knows exactly what she needs to do.

I did ask my sisters friend to come and show me how to change all the codes on the doors and the garage so he can not enter, not sure if I can leagally do this but I will just take a slap on the wrist when and if that happens.

I will block his phone number from my phone and my email.

I do have a couple questions, what if there is an emergency with the DD? Also, what happens if he files for divorce?

Cherry, you are doing this perfectly by carefully thinking through every step. That increases the odds of an air tight Plan B.

If there is an emergency you would contact him. A REAL emergency. And if he files for divorce you stay in Plan B.

If he files for divorce, they know where to serve you. If there is an emergency, he can still get through to you by using a different phone or having someone else call you or by contacting your IM.

Me and my neutral friend are meeting tonight to review her role as our IM. I am moving forward with Plan B! Still nervous but I know it is the only way I will ever get my self to recover!

I forgot to add that he was supposed to pick up the baby at 5 on Sunday and stood her up....that just assures me that I am doing the right thing!

I even joined a softball league with my DD17! Let the RECOVERY BEGIN!!!!!!

I have one more question before I deliver the Plan B letter. What about his parents and family?

Do I tell them what I am doing and ask that they please respect my wishes and not try to contact me on his behalf?

I would, right after you've delivered the Plan B letter to him. I wouldn't say anything to them beforehand, you don't need the to give a heads up, you will want to word it in your own way.

Agree with Kay!

Thank you! Wish me luck!

Thank you, that is the way i will do it then. i will give it to him then talk with his family.

I do still have one very important question, all his stuff remains in our home. The only thing he took was his cloths, I have his tools his tools, his camping stuff, the whole lot!

What do i do with his stuff? Do I pack it up and just leave it sittiing in the garage? I just don't know what to do with it.

That's exactly what I did. A giant pile of crap I dubbed Mt. Wayward.

CC, be sure that you don't talk to him after you hand him the letter. Hand him the letter and ask him to read it later....then LEAVE. The last thing you want to do is get into a debate over the contents of the letter. If you think that will happen, then just mail him the letter.


Box it all up and ask him to make arrangements to pick it up from the garage by XX-XX-XXXX or it will be donated to charity.

Thank you! I feel this is a huge part of recovery, everytime I look at something it all comes rushing back to the forefront!

Twelve years of crap to pack! ugh the thought...lots of tears and emotions I am sure!

It depends on how it effects you being around. Can you get some of his family to come and take it?

Remember this is not a confrontation, this is you protecting your very sanity by removing him from your life.

Packing it up sends a good message. But PB is about YOU, hon..

The reason you should box it up and ask him to come get it is because Plan B is supposed to emulate divorce. This is supposed to give him a taste of what life will be when you are divorced. And if you are divorced, you are certainly not going to be his personal storage unit.

And more importantly, you won't be triggered every time you look at his crap.

Wayzilla thought she was coming to pick up a couch. Her plan was to pop by now and then and pick up something. It was not my plan.

When I opened the garage door she was faced with her entire life boxed, stacked and waiting.

You should have seen her face.

It took me and another guy 15-20 minutes to fill her van.

I asked her to come into the house to make a couple judgement calls on things that could go either way. Inside the house there was no evidence she ever existed there.

She walked around dazed and said multiple times, "This is just too much."

Ya think??? Duma$$ wayturds!

When my XWH dumped me for OW, I paid someone to pack it all up and put it in the garden shed. Then I left a message on his cell phone telling him he could come get it but let him know the locks had been changed on the house.
Wouldn't you know he never did come get it. I UPSed his important documents, business records, kids pictures/letters to him c/o his mom and the rest went to Goodwill a year later.

Thank you so much for all the help! I can say that you individuals are the reason I am surviving and mending myself everyday!

I read all your stories, and all the encouragement that comes from MB is amazing!

Cherrychip,
It is amazing, I love the people on this site! We all help each other get through it. Keep us posted on how it's going...

CherryChip,
Haven't heard anything this week, how are you doing?