Marriage Builders
Posted By: atena Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 01:23 PM
Hi all,
I have been on plan B now for 3 and half months. H never ever tried to contact me. When he did he used the IM and was very to the point.
I see him at work very rarely and never face to face, always from a distance. He never ever tried to come and see me or talk to me. I feel very sad today as I really think is behaviour says that R is impossible. His A with OW is still going but he only sees her for quality time as they do not live together..so he does not have to put up with her kids.
I have exposed to everyone at work and to our parents,sibling etc..As a result, at work, everyone talks to me in a commiserating voice treating me as a victim. Their interactions with my H have not changed and they are kind and polite to him as ever. They have lunch with him and no body has isolated him in any form or manner. My IL do not call me nor interact with me. At Xmas they did not even call to wish me Merry Xmas.
I am close to my 3 sisters in law who are supportive, but they do not bother their brother at all.
I should be feeling better by now, but I do not. It is hard for me not to talk to H and not to be able to see him or call him. It is hurting me more than helping me. I miss my H so much and the jelousy towards OW is not going away.
Please, if any plan B person can offer some words of wisdom I would appreciate it.
blessings
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 02:08 PM
Sorry atena, it is very hard. I know cuz I broke it several times and it did no good, so dont do it you will only hear his stupid wayward talk....The advice I can give you is to just concentrate on yourself, do stuff you like, take a class, keep busy...and put WH out of your mind.

It does get better with time, but I have been in Plan B for almost two years and it does still hurt, but not nearly as much. I can get the thoughts of WH and OW out of my mind much easier now and not dwell.....Did you ever think of talkin to a doctor? maybe antedepressant might help or some individual counseling. Both of these helped me a lot too.

Hang in there, K?


Oh and I know it sounds stupid, but journaling my feelings and thoughts helped me a lot....I have never been a journaler until this happened....It kind of puts your thoughts on paper and that way you dont dwell as much.
Posted By: TravelMonkey Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 02:21 PM
I agree with stillhere. I have been keeping a journal of my thoughts, feelings and what I have been doing since D-Day and I believe that is what has kept me sane all these months.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 02:29 PM
Thank you Stillhere,
I am not going to contact him even if I am tempted to ask him questions or hear his voice....or even for a moment be under the illusion that if he talks to me he cares.
I think at this point there is nothing to do really. We are about to sell the house, our son is away in college, my H's family is overseas and he rarely talks to them and even less sees them. He is a new man with a new life and a woman.
He looks great and does not seem to care about a thing.
I guess is too early still...but by now, after 3 and some months shouldn't the A be already causing him stress....?
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 02:42 PM
My WH also only sees OW for quality time, still to this day...they do not live together and he goes to see her once or twice a week....unfortunaly I think those affairs take longer to feel the stress....but sometimes when he picks up DS, WH looks horribly stressed (he also works out looks great and I gained 50 lbs). But eventually I think that OW puts pressure on them for more, and thats when they will start feeling the stress.

And really you never know what goes on behind closed doors, ya know?

Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 03:31 PM
The best thing to do Atena is to refocus your thoughts to your own life. Not how he is living on the other side of the B planet.

Get a bigger social network, new activites to fill your life,interesting things to do and try to get your equilibrium and to aim for glowing with the wonders of good things.

Try to think only hopeful and loving thoughts towards him. Don't feel that his avoidance of you is a definition of your worth. It is not. Its his coping mechanism for continuing his affair. Not about you per se at all.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 03:57 PM
Stillhere, yes it looks like we are on the same boat!
I think those kind of A last longer, yes. And then when they are done with that OW they will eventually go into another OW. I think our Hs wanted their freedom and starting a family with another woman is not in their agenda.
They are enjoying it and yes, of course they have stress, but no more no less than the average person.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 06:42 PM
I did a lot of journaling during my H first A. My h did not leave then, he was with us, so I had hope and I was journaling so I would get my frustrations out on paper and not LB my H.
This time I do not seem inspired to do so. I am aware there is not much I can do and that the M is pretty much over I am also afraid that journaling might keep me stuck in my thoughts and I can go on and on about them making them into a giant epic of hope and create for myself a huge big illusion which will inevitably lead to disappointment.
blessing
Posted By: QueeniesAdventures Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 07:35 PM
Hi Atena,

You are so right. Plan B was almost torterous. I was so bored, I felt completely isolated, there was NOTHING for me to do and I felt completely alone.

I think the first few months are the toughest, but then it kinda settles down because you learn to focus on yourself and heal inside.

I was in Plan B for almost a year, like two weeks shy of a year. A VERY DARK one at that. I didn't know what was going on over on the other side. From what I could see it also look as if this M was over. Gosh I had even started D proceedings.

All I ever had was my FAITH and TRUST in G-d.

Does it get better, probably more accurately it just gets different. It gets to be a new normal. Does the pain go away, for some it did. For me it didn't. I still cried and prayed.

I still kept my FAITH and TRUST in G-d.

Posting about it helped too because there were those of us who understood.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 08:09 PM
Thank you queeny. I pray every day. But my H would have to really come back begging me and walking on water for me to take him back. He was too cruel: twice. I do not have it in me any more to put energy into a man who feels entitled to cheat and have female friends.
He must come back a begging changed man. Basically i pray for a miracle.
they happen.
Blessing
Posted By: QueeniesAdventures Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 08:21 PM
I can tell you the miracle happens when they start to come out of the fog. I have to be honest, I not really aware of your situation, but if you are pretty much done with him, why is Plan B so hard for you?

smile
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 08:30 PM
Pay attention to Queenie.
She's got it goin' on !


Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/21/10 09:09 PM
Atena, sorry you are struggling. Like you I work with my XWH and the OW. I do see him and her once in awhile.

I too felt like a victim at the beginning and my co-workers treated me like one.

Now I stand stronger (some days I am crying inside). In my case my XWH is like a shadow and most treat the OW as what she is trash. I am extremely blessed in that sense.

It is very hard. I do have love for XH but I know as long as OW is there that it is best to stay as far away from him as possible.

This tragedy has given me a personal relationship with God and I have faith that he will carry me through. blessings.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/22/10 08:22 AM
The thing is Queeny, I should be done with him given this is his second A and he has behaved like a scum. But I think i have dependency issues. I am in IC now, maybe it will help. I do not seem to be able to get over my H. I still love him and still secretly hope to R.
Thank you for your support
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/22/10 01:32 PM
Hope, I really feel for you, it is already hard to work in same place as WH but I can't imagine if OW was also here!
In the education field...cheating is not seen as a big deal.
I gave people the whole story about my H betrayal and how sleezy he was for 18 months. I could not eat or talk to a collegue if he had done what my H did to me to his wife.
My H totally erased me from his life as if I had never existed. He still tells people he left me because he was unhappy for a long time and that OW had no play in his leaving me. People believe him for the most part and say: well those things happen especially when kids go off to college and H and W are left with eachother...I just can't believe it.
So I am not sure the exposure part did anything for me. I am sure my H is saying: she told everybody and they do not care.
blessing
Posted By: QueeniesAdventures Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/22/10 02:17 PM
Originally Posted by atena
The thing is Queeny, I should be done with him given this is his second A and he has behaved like a scum. But I think i have dependency issues. I am in IC now, maybe it will help. I do not seem to be able to get over my H. I still love him and still secretly hope to R.
Thank you for your support
blessing

hug Atena hug My H as it turned out cheated on me almost our entire marriage and with multiple, multiple women. He too, behaved like scum and if I don't have dependency issues I certainly have self-esteem issues.

Our hearts love what our hearts love. For some of us getting married meant for the rest of our lives and we might not have even known it. Remember, I don't know your situation at all, but personally I applaud you for your commitment and desire for R. I had it too. NO ONE and I mean NO ONE is my world supported me on this and I just kept walking and trusting G-d. There was a man on here, Vladi who called me pathetic I think.

But here's the deal from my experience. I thought my WH was the most vile awful one of the lot, turns out he was just typical like them all ONLY to the extreme possibly. However, the catalyst in all of this is, once they start to come out of that fog that they have created for themself, some it's the OW, some it's their life of entitlement, but whatever it is they truly do start to change and become a human being again.

In Plan B, if you still have LOVE for him and are willing for R, then it's working hon. That's the design of Plan B. Live your life, protect the love you have for your H and if and when the time comes you will have something left for R.

You are doing awesome. Keep working on you and trust that G-d is working on WH.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/22/10 02:43 PM
Hi Queeney!
I feel so much better after your message. Thank you. I know it is going to be a long road and it is uncertain, but you are right..till the fog clears there is nothing to do for R. The fog has been very thick for my H for years. He has issues he does not want to face and life is going to slap him with a bill sooner or later. But at times god works in its mysterious ways and it might take many years for my H, if ever, to come to the realization that what he should value most he trashed and that it is trash that he choose to live with.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/23/10 08:30 PM
I am so down in the dumps. I have not been eating well, lots of sugar and chocolate...!
Yesterday and today were very hard. In fact I was at a party last night and a collegue at work said that she and another collegue were talking to my H about in laws and how difficult they can be and my collegue asked my H if he got along with his IL and H told her that he gets along perfectly with my mom and brother. I could not believe it! I told my collegue: do you know we are separated? She said no, I did not know, you H talks about you as if you are together!
Then I told her about his A etc...She was speechless!
Is he schizofrenic!? Or he simply wants to avoid explaining the reasons why we are separated to people he works with??????
I am so down in I do not seem able to get out of this funk!
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/23/10 08:37 PM
Atena, you gotta pull yourself out, and please dont analyse(sic) or even think about anything WH says...Thats why you are in Plan B. Yes waywards are schizofrenic. My WH still calls me his wife and tells everyone I am home sick when he goes to his big family events (everyone already knows the truth). I mean I dont get it. Waywards probably just dont want to have to say out loud what they did to their family, even though he knows full well that everyone knows.

So what does it mean, nothing. Just put it out of your mind as best you can....you are like me I think, and I can honestly say its been close to two years in plan B for me and I am just starting to not feel the pain as much...Dont torture your self by thinking about him anymore than you have to.

The pain does go away with time....I promise....just take it one day at a time, K?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/23/10 08:44 PM
I guess when they say things like that in a way it makes you "hope" because you think: well then they still see me as part of their life even if we no longer live together.
But you are right, getting any sort of info about him is useless and brings about toooo much pain.
I just miss him soo much. Week-ends are very hard because I know he spends them with her. How do I know...I just know because that is when her kids are with her XH.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/23/10 08:57 PM
Hope, sucks. I know you miss him....I know how hard it is...I hate that someone else has to go through this, it breaks my heart....but I know EXACTLY how you feel, trust me. And I know no matter what I say that it wont take away the pain.

All I can say is that I think the pain is just something you have to get THROUGH to the otherside....and the otherside is just less pain, not none....but I am soooo much better, so I do know for a fact that you WILL get THROUGH this. I dont think about WH every second of the day like I used to.

I still miss him, but you know what I think that the "him" that I miss is not there anymore or he is hidden deeply....I can say that I have not completely given up hope, almost but not completely.....and when I completely do I will divorce my WH...I mean mine didnt even divorce me yet, but shows no sign of wanting to come back....IDK what to think either...

Maybe they know we are waiting for them and that doesnt help either...who knows?...but I know you will get better, just take it one moment at a time, and slowly but surely it does get better. I feel so sorry for you, because I know how bad it hurts.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/23/10 09:02 PM
Thank you Stillhere, your words and support truly help in this difficult time.
I am also "homeless" in the sense that I am a guest at a friend's house (a woman whose H is serving abroad). I can't be in my own apartment cuz OW is the downstairs neighbor.
In the city were I live rents are expensive, i have been looking into flat sharing but I am not willing to live with college students and the prices are very high for just a room.
All in all I lost everything..my H, my home and my son just started college in Sept so I am also missing him a lot.
I just want to cry but I have to pull myself together!
thank you
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/23/10 09:07 PM
Ill say some prayers for ya, atena...and sometimes a good cry will help too. You will get through this...and you can always post on here for venting or a shoulder to cry on with someone who understands your pain all too well.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/24/10 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by atena
All in all I lost everything..my H, my home and my son just started college in Sept so I am also missing him a lot.

But you have gained your sanity by getting away from your H's abuse, Atena. Look how long you have been dealing with this? MY GOD, you are a walking post traumatic stress disorder. You had to leave your marriage and your HOME to get away. Atena, please please believe me when I say it won't always be this bad. You have a bright future now that you did not have before.

And secondly, I emailed you that link about how sugar is linked to depression. Please cut out the sugar! It is horrible to your mental health! sugar
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/24/10 12:59 AM
Queenie and stillhere, God Bless you both for posting to atena!! smile
Posted By: QueeniesAdventures Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/24/10 01:35 AM
Quote
Atena, you gotta pull yourself out, and please dont analyse(sic) or even think about anything WH says...Thats why you are in Plan B.
Still hit this dead on ya know...

Quote
Hope, sucks. I know you miss him....I know how hard it is...I hate that someone else has to go through this, it breaks my heart....but I know EXACTLY how you feel, trust me. And I know no matter what I say that it wont take away the pain.

All I can say is that I think the pain is just something you have to get THROUGH to the otherside....and the otherside is just less pain, not none....but I am soooo much better, so I do know for a fact that you WILL get THROUGH this. I dont think about WH every second of the day like I used to.
Ditto

Wow Still some awesome words there. Atena, there was one point that was critical to my personal recovery. It was when I sacrificed the love I had for my H and gave it to G-d. JT helped me so much with this. She helped me understand that my M, the love I had for my H was my Isaac and maybe just maybe G-d needed me to trust him THAT much by giving him the love and asking him to take care of it. EVERYTHING that Still described was me, was her, and now you. She is so right. As hard as it is, one moment at a time, one day at a time it will get better.

G-d is right there holding his hands out for you to hold you through the darkest times. I used to take my torah and AA book and hold them and cry like a baby rocking myself to sleep. The next morning could be better or like you said, it was a weekend and I HATED weekends. They were too long and everyone was having fun doing something and all I wanted was something that just wasn't happening.

Talk out loud or in your head to G-d, tell him exactly what you are feeling and how sad you are. He already knows so you might asked him for insight.

Again, the timing of whatever you do or don't do is yours. Just like the others on here for me, will support you and bash you when necessary but also allow you the dignity and grace to walk through this in your timing.

Remember Jeremiah 29:11-13 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope. And ye shall call upon me, and go, and pray unto Me, and I will harken unto you. And ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart.

Proverbs 3:25-26 Be not afraid of sudden terror; Neither of the destruction of the wicked, when it cometh; For the Lord will be thy confidence, and will keep thy foot from being caught.

Psalm 143 Oh Lord, hear my prayer, give ear to my supplications. For the enemy hath persectued my soul. He hath crushed my life down to the ground. Answer me speedily my Lord, for my spirit faileth. Hide not thy face from me. Lest I become like them that go down into the pit. Cause me to hear thy lovingkindness in the morning. For in Thee do I trust; Cause me to know the way where in I should walk. For nto Thee have I lifted up my soul. Deliver me from my enemies, Oh Lord. Teach me to do Thy will, For Thou art my G-d. In thy righteousness bring my soul out of trouble, And in Thy mercy cut off my enemies, And destroy them all that harass my soul. For I am Thy servant.

We love you. We are right here with you.

Thanks Melody....
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/24/10 10:08 AM
Thank you Queeny, Melody and Stillhere!
I cried reading your posts and the prayers really help!
The person I share the house with is not here today so I can cry freely. It is hard and the mind will not let go of the memories, mental movies etc..
I will not eat any sugar today! I think that really does not help.
Thank you soo much for all your support. It is so much needed!
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/24/10 02:40 PM
Thanx for this thread. I too agree that Plan B is hard although I haven't been at it as long as you. It is really difficult to not think about my WH EVERYDAY(many times a day actually). We had almost 18 years together where I thought of him always. I think it will take about 1/2 of that time not to think of him daily hahahahaha.

Today(possibly right now even), my WH is going to have surgery done on his shoulder. He dislocated it on Friday and I hear from my DS9 that he is getting a pin put in it. I so wanted to break NC yesterday and write him an email. I didn't, but I really wanted to. I wanted to let him know that I was thinking about him and that I was worried. I know I am not supposed to get in to his drama but this is possibly a serious sitch. I of course still love him.

I hope everything goes well with you today, and take the time alone to cry if it makes you feel better. I know it makes me feel better sometimes too. I even say things outloud. I feel silly, like I am that crazy person who walks down the street talking to myself but I get all of my feelings out and I feel better.

Take care hun.
Posted By: QueeniesAdventures Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/24/10 04:03 PM
Hi Scotland, I'm glad you came over. I truly truly truly understand these feelings. I remember them so well.

Somewhere in life I learned that crying was G-ds way of cleansing our souls. I have come to believe and you may be experiencing right now that bottom of the barrel emotions where you think you tried to do it on your own for so long and you thought you were letting G-d in, but you were completely and this was G-ds way of reaching you.

As silly as it sounds, we are creatures that hate change and I have experienced it's only when the pain to stay or hold is is greater than the pain of the unknown.

Could it be you are frightened, frightened of the unknown, of that future. You can't possibly see how G-d can turn this around if given the time? I certainly didn't. I needed to keep my hands in the mix, even though intellectually I thought I had let go.

I just remember something Mimi, who I MISS very much girl, but Mimi taught me over and over again. The M we know are DEAD. The sad reality is that they have fallen in love with someone else. But we are the connection to light with G-d and that you can't do anything for them now. They are truly in G-ds hands. If you are like me and need to DO something, then continue to pray for them. I suscribed to the Charlene Cares email everyday that gave me the continue direction on how to get through this.

Here is today's sample. I'm not sure if it's fitting or not, Charlyne Cares is a free daily devotional from Rejoice Marriage
Ministries, Inc. sent only to subscribers. If these no longer
meet your needs, you can unsubscribe at the end of the message.
Read back issues from http://rejoiceministries.org/devotion.php
- - - - -

Today's Free Conference Call Information Below -

"Do You Hate Divorce AS God Does?" -

"Another thing you do: You flood the LORD's altar with tears.
You weep and wail because he no longer pays attention to your
offerings or accepts them with pleasure from your hands. You
ask, "Why?" It is because the LORD is acting as the witness
between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken
faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your
marriage covenant. Has not the LORD made them one? In flesh and
spirit they are his. And why one? Because he was seeking godly
offspring. So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break
faith with the wife of your youth. "I hate divorce," says the
LORD God of Israel." Malachi 2:13-16

Bob and I were watching a sermon recently when the pastor said
very strongly, "Divorce is not an option when you have marriage
problems." We were both praising the Lord for that pastor's
boldness. God hates divorce. So should not all men of God teach
and preach God's Word and what God's will is for His children?

Our prayer every weekend is for pastors around the world to
preach regularly from the pulpit that God can reignite and
rekindle the couple's love in their loveless marriages. Our Lord
can revive dead marriages and then they will rebuild their
marriages and be witnesses about the power of God. Nothing is too
hard for our mighty awesome God to fix especially since God
created marriages. We can stop divorces in our churches if our
Men of God would preach this regularly and have Bible Study
classes showing spouses how to work through any and all of their
marriage problems that will pop up throughout all seasons of all
marriages.

When Bob was gone for over two years, he was talking of a wedding
with the other person. I prayed about what that would mean to me.
We were already divorced when the Lord spoke to me supernaturally
that I was to stand and pray for restoration of our marriage. I
sought my Lord and He spoke scriptures of confirmation that my
marriage was a covenant marriage, not a contract that could be
broken or discarded, regardless Bob's present sinful lifestyle.

Bob and I had both failed in not knowing how to pray and fight
for our marriage. Bob was tempted by the enemy, satan into
sexual immorality. I did not know how to forgive and pray for my
husband daily. I did not choose to fight for my marriage, but
gave up on Bob and on God. I could not see with my own blinded
eyes that my Lord could change Bob's heart, regardless of the
abuse and adultery. Where are you?

What are you facing? Is it alcohol, drugs, gambling or a unsaved
spouse? We Christians must believe in the power of our Lord God
and in His Word.

In one of our concordances regarding Malachi 2:14, (as written
above) it says: "...that Jehovah affirms that though a legal
divorce has taken place and another marriage has been legally
consummated, that divorce did not break the marital tie. The man
is still married to his Hebrew wife, the wife of thy covenant.
The covenant is not broken by divorce and a subsequent
remarriage. It is clear that God regarded marriage to be a
lifelong commitment broken only by the death of one of the
partners." (Liberty Bible Commentary)

Oh, that you and I would believe that every day regardless of
what your spouse is doing, you can walk in faith with your Lord
to touch and change your spouse's heart to bring healing and
restoration to your marriage. You made a vow and a marriage
covenant for life with your spouse. Never give up! Keep praying!

A pastor wrote to a spouse who was in a non-covenant marriage.
The spouse wanted the stander to go to counseling with the pastor
to work out the problems that were arising. With permission from
the pastor we share his reply to a man who had married the other
person:

------------------------------------------------------------------
"It has come to my attention that you are requesting my help to
ease some of the relational tensions you are facing with (wife).
It appears (wife) refuses to 'move on' and could use my help
embracing the events of the past.

"I want to inform you that I will be unable to assist you. I am
pro marriage. Your union goes against everything I believe in
with regards to marriage. The Biblical view of marriage is a
covenant not a contract. In the marriage covenant, individuals
lose their rights and assume responsibilities. (Even if you are
unfaithful, I will remain faithful.) They are forever and binding.

"In a marriage contract, individuals are granted certain rights
and have limited responsibilities. (If you don't do this, then I
will do this.) (Husband) and (wife) have entered into the
covenant of marriage. Even in (husband's) unfaithfulness, (wife)
chooses to remain faithful because she entered a covenant before
God and (husband) to do so. If you want me to help her deal with
your union in a better fashion, and accept (other woman) to be
(husband's) new covenant partner, that would make no sense.

"The (husband) I know of, before his adultery and being found
unrepentant, was an incredible man of character, a leader in his
church, a good husband, and an awesome father. If you turn the
clock back a few years, I am confident that (husband) would
neither endorse nor embrace the life you both are now asking
everyone to accept. I along with (wife) wait for the day that
(husband) returns and is restored.

"I realize that you will consider this judgmental. You asked for
my help and I am pleading with you to return to what you know is
right, not what feels right. In your heart, you know that it is
not right to blow town when (child) needs a father's love. In
your heart, you know it is not right to parade your
unfaithfulness in the church your wife attends. If I ever do
these things, please judge them to be out of my best interest and
out of line with God's will for my life. Do the right thing; be
restored to your families. Be restored to God. I will help you do
this to the best of my ability."

Pastor
------------------------------------------------------------------

What a powerful statement this pastor made to a man who had been
in his church, but who had fallen into the trap of adultery. That
man has a praying pastor and a loving, praying spouse wanting
him "to come to senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who
has taken them captive to do his will." (2 Timothy 2:26)

I pray that this pastor's heartfelt pleas to this prodigal will
touch you so much that you will pray weekly for all Men of God to
have their own hearts transformed to "hate divorce" as God does.
Will you pray that your pastor would feel led by the power of the
Holy Spirit to write a letter to your own beloved spouse how much
they are praying for them? You and I can make a difference in
praying for a revival to come to our churches around the world in
healing, strengthening and resurrecting dead marriages, back into
strong and healthy marries with powerful testimonies of both
couples to share with other married couples. Jesus Christ is the
answer for all marriage problems. Now we need to pray that the
church will become the lighthouse for all hurting marriages so
that they be restored and rebuilt on the solid rock of Jesus
Christ.

Today, regardless of what your pastor, counselor, family or
friends may say, you must seek your Lord for His divine answer
for your own marriage. Yes, it may seem impossible in the natural
eye, but nothing is too hard for your Lord God to do.

You must remember what the entire Bible teaches us about faith,
trust and hope in our Lord God in impossible circumstances. Bob
and I believe that if you have found our Rejoice Marriage
Ministries by God's divine intervention, your Lord God has been
revealing His truths to you, a little at a time, to say in the
end, your marriage is forever and can be resurrected from the
dead!

End....

I went to google and searched for the praying wife and so many prayers came up. I printed them out and said them for weeks on end. And I just simply talked to G-d. Sometime early on I got this message from G-d, and he TOLD me that this was NOT about me and my M, but that my WH was so unhappy with his life and he was blaming me and our marriage on the misery. He TOLD me to stay out of it, it was a spiritual battle between him and my WH and that all I could do was become the woman he always envisioned for me, a Proverbs 31 woman, and to pray. Because in reality we were fighting Satan and G-d needed my help.

So I looked up spiritual battle and I took from it what applied and I reinforced myself in the ways that I needed to and after Plan B was fully in force, I let G-d protect the love I had for my H.

You see the sad reality is, while they are with the women, or are completed wayward in actions and thoughts, you can't convince, fight or cajole them. That NEEDS to happen from G-d. I one day realized that G-d wasn't saying no, he was just saying not yet. I studied the bible, torah, and I came here and just find so much comfort in knowing that what was happening to me wasn't crazy and that there were people who understood my feelings because they were going through so many similarities.

Today... when you think of WH... shake your head and ask G-d to help you give them to him. I tried so many things.. putting him in a balloon and sending it off was one suggestion. I took a stick that represented my WH and threw him into the cold waters. You will intuitively know when that happens because there will be a peace of openness.

Please remember this is YOUR journey. We can give you all the advice, hold your hand etc, but ultimately this walk is with you and G-d. He is your shepherd.

Psalm 23
A psalm of David.
1 The LORD is my shepherd, I shall not be in want.
2 He makes me lie down in green pastures,
he leads me beside quiet waters,

3 he restores my soul.
He guides me in paths of righteousness
for his name's sake.

4 Even though I walk
through the valley of the shadow of death, [a]
I will fear no evil,
for you are with me;
your rod and your staff,
they comfort me.

5 You prepare a table before me
in the presence of my enemies.
You anoint my head with oil;
my cup overflows.

6 Surely goodness and love will follow me
all the days of my life,
and I will dwell in the house of the LORD
forever.

And finally I truly recommend a book that saved MY LIFE. It's called G-d is More than Enough. It can be found on amazon.com. It's about psalm 23 and helped me understand what G-d needed from me. I couldn't help G-d with my WH, but I could help G-d with me, and that's what HE wanted all along, because you see.

Psalm 139
For the director of music. Of David. A psalm.
1 O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.
2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.

3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.

4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.

5 You hem me in�behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.

6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.

7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?

8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, [a] you are there.

9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,

10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.

11 If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,"

12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.

13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother's womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,

16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

17 How precious to [b] me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!

18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand.
When I awake,
I am still with you.

19 If only you would slay the wicked, O God!
Away from me, you bloodthirsty men!

20 They speak of you with evil intent;
your adversaries misuse your name.

21 Do I not hate those who hate you, O LORD,
and abhor those who rise up against you?

22 I have nothing but hatred for them;
I count them my enemies.

23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.

24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.

Hugs to you both.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 02:30 AM
Queenie, Thank you for your response. It was exactly what I needed today and it really made a lot of sense. I am not totally ready to let WH go but I think I am much closer being on here. I am afraid. I am afraid that if I let go, he won't come back. Now I realize that that never had anything to do with me. I have to work on me, which I am realizing I have been doing but not totally. I will get better at this. Sorry to t/j Atena. Thanx laugh
Posted By: QueeniesAdventures Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 04:07 AM
Scot, G-d I was so scared to let go too.

But here's the deal, letting go is giving your TRUST, FAITH and life to G-d. He KNOWS how this ends. I promise you it won't be what you expect or imagine today.

You remember that stupid saying... If you love something set it free, if it comes back it's, yours.... if not....

Work on you, TRUST G-d and just keep your FAITH.

You can do this. If I can, anyone can.
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 04:21 AM
Originally Posted by Scotland
I am afraid that if I let go, he won't come back.

I went into plan B convinced I would never see my H again. Totally and completly convinced.

Quote
Now I realize that that never had anything to do with me.
clap I think that is one of the hardest things a BS has to learn. We want so much to believe they think of us in any way at all, but the reality is we are nothing to them, it is all about them and how they feel and what they want and the BS not only is not considered, the WS would be surprised should that consideration ever appear.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 09:34 AM
Quote
Quote:Now I realize that that never had anything to do with me.
I think that is one of the hardest things a BS has to learn. We want so much to believe they think of us in any way at all, but the reality is we are nothing to them, it is all about them and how they feel and what they want and the BS not only is not considered, the WS would be surprised should that consideration ever appear.

Lildoggie, I assume you R your M.
That is good news.
I too believe I will never R mine,but see this is not the point of letting go. I think.
I think letting go is practicing to stop out thoughts about our WH and not make them take over our day. It is creating a life without them and liking it. I am seriously not there yet.
And my fear is that I will never be.I am seriosly terrified to make this separation and my H's A the theme of my life for the years to come.
Thank you Queeney, Lil and Scot for your posts. They are very helful. I am just not doing well. I really have to find a place to call home and till I do that I am truly in a panic and a limbo.
Yes, I also fanasize that my H misses me etc...he does not even think about me. When I think that thought my heart freezes. How is that possible? I think R needs a miracle.
blessing
Posted By: ExpectsAMiracle Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 09:53 AM
This thread has helped me too. I feel much like you atena, very scared. I start doing better and my brain is flooded with memories. Sometimes when I get my mind off of it I expect him to walk through the door like he always did before. I wish I could wake up and have this all be a nightmare. And my heart also freezes when I snap out of it and realize he doesn't care at all. Sometimes he tells me he cares about me, but then quickly goes back to being cruel. It's hard now because it's almost like he's Plan B-ing me' his lawyer said he can't talk to me.

My H was in Iraq for a year and I learned to be strong without him. It's much easier when you know they will probably come home and you know they love you; or so I thought.

I'm with you though, working on strength. I'm scared of plan B, it will be hard to totally let go.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 11:42 AM
I guess letting go will not happen till be get over our shock. I am still in shock. I am also "homeless' and that really pays a toll.
I can't even phantom how I can possibly still have feeling for a man like my H. After all he has proven to be no M material and for a while. He has lived the past 8 years we have moved to this freaking country as a bachelor, doing what he most pleased to do and had 2 affairs just for starters. He then blamed me, constantly, for his unhappiness.
I should be happy to have him out of my life. Instead no: I am jelous, I think of him in romantic ways etc..
I think till I let go of this illusion that he is the man I married instead of a son of a B*** then I will never be able to let go!
blessing
Posted By: PhoenixRising65 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 12:10 PM
I was already doing a form of plan B before I even found MB just to protect myself. Plan B was the hardest thing that I have ever done. At times I was crappy at it and other time I was great. Funny thing is I cried for 2 1/2 hrs and turned everything over to God because I knew He was going to do whatever He wanted to do the day before my H came back. Now I think I just stay in a state of turmoil.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 01:07 PM
Hi Tracy I read your thread about your H and you R. Hang in there and yes, be firm. Do not let him get away with committing to a well rounded R, otherwise you are in for a long haul of suffering and pain.
Plan B, as I see it, it the beginning of the end. That is why it is so sad to go thru it. In your case, however, there is hope for R, and I do know your story and your H seemed pretty set into leaving...but then things changed.
However, for me, after H second A, I can see a pattern here. A man, my H, who seems hardened into entitlement and indifference. A very selfish person who still blames me for him being unhappy. Now I think with a man like him it is pretty safe to say it is over.
I am going thru the grief of a loss of a love.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 01:17 PM
I am also in the same boat as you guys, but I am farther along in Plan B....The pain does not suddenly get better, its kinda like one day you think, wow I didnt think of WH when I went to the store today....Then its like, I havent dreamt about WH in 3 days....Then suddenly you realize its a few days or a week....You notice you do not cry everytime he pops in your head.

But one thing I can tell you is that if I sit and start dwelling on him, I still cry...but it doesnt ruin my whole day like it used too.

And I want to tell you guys that I still havent given up hope...I do feel myself getting there though....my love is almost drained. And that is when I will divorce him and move on, until then I dont feel that I am ready for another relationship anyway. So its not like I am waiting for him, just healing. And if he just happens to come back in that time period, well then I will make the decision then if I even want him anymore.

You guys are gonna be okay...it will just take a while, but I promise it DOES get better.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 01:35 PM
Stillhere, do you ever see your WH? You have been in Plan B almost 2 years. Has he ever tried to contact you?
I think you mentioned a while ago that your WH see OW but does not live with her (same as mine). These type of As last much longer than the live together type, I think. And when they end the WH is so used to being on his own that the thought of R is no longer that appealing.
It is good you are slowly but surely losing love for H. I hope to get there at some point. My H lives a "resort" type of life. It is like a vacation to him 12 months a year. And now OW, younget and sweet, makes his life even better. I really can't compete and I am at the end of my energies anyway.
Blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 03:15 PM
Yes, unfortunately I do see him when he comes to pick up DS...and yes he always tries to small talk with me, I think just to see if I forgave him yet, but not because he wants me back...

And yes I feel the same as you, WH moved into his brothers condo for free, OW lives and hour away so I think he probably even cheats on her, IDK, maybe not...he lives by himself, comes and goes as he pleases and works...

I dont see my WH as ever giving up his freedom...I truly think he just didnt want to be married anymore...
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 04:51 PM
Last night, after reading Queenie and lil's posts I did a lot of thinking. My mind was working on overtime. I have read te success stories thread and I even have read some of the stuff on the recovering board. I have read MANY MANY people's threads on here and some of them give me hope. I think that I have just been thinking that he will come home some day. There are times where I think he never will be for the most part I keep hope that he will and that is how I have been getting through.

What I did realize before I found MB was that I have actually become weak in myself in the last few years. My WH would have the say on what we would do and where we would go. I lived my life for him. I did things in thoughts of what he would want. Even down to where we put the garbage can in our kitchen. I would just try to "please" him. I realized when he said he was leaving me, that I had lost myself along the way. I am looking forward to finding myself only I don't know where to look.

I need to be that strong person again. Right now, I am just hurting and I don't know how long it will take. I am a patient person but apparently there are some things I can't be patient about. I am not that 16 year old girl that WH started dating. I am 34 and I am a Mom. I need to get my power back. I am going to make myself strong again but I think it will be a long hard road.

I am glad to see I am not alone though. The worst thing is to feel like noone understands me. Here's to our journey.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 06:31 PM
Hi Scot, you do not have to look far to find yourself. You are there for you. When you feel you can he fine alone as well as in the company of others...then you found yourself.
If you identify yourself with an image or a bundle on thoughts then you have lost yourself...
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 06:37 PM
Our H are the same. He told me he did not want to be married any more and that he wanted to be alone. He is now and I doubt he will give up his freedom. However, since he was and is quite foggy..when we were still talking before the A exploded, he said that he wanted a woman that could make him happy and with whom he had no past. He said he was interested in dating and finding a special person that thought like him and liked the same things he did. Therefore I conclude that...yes he left because he likes his freedom, but if they really wanted to be alone, then why date, why get all f&*** up and risk your integrity by having an A?
Why not just leave, rent a place, stay single till D is finall and then date.
So this tells me, Still, that the A does play a role in the fog talk. When it ends, then and only then we will know if our H really wanted freedom or they were just fogged up by OW.
At some point they will be alone if they cycle thru one OW after another. Then they would have obtained what they wished for...:lonlyness
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 07:03 PM
I know, I know, I dont get it either. If they didnt want to be married why would they have waited until they found someone else to do so? I accidentally found out about WH A. It had been goin on for two years....So of course it has to do with OW...

And I know that WH still sees the same OW, maybe others, but I really dont see him having time for more than one...but I didnt think he had time for cheating when he was home, so what do I know?

Yeah, Im just gonna enjoy the single life a little...and trust me you will enjoy it a little after a while....take care of yourself, do things that make you happy, or things you never would have done before...And you will know when it is time to move on, trust me you will, cuz I am almost there.

And if they dont come back to us, then old H's just arent there anymore...and I truly beleive at some point they will want us back and old H's come back, I really do....but it might be after WE have already moved on and dont want R anymore, ya know?

I mean it could be five years from now. And at the beginning I really thought I would wait that long, but now I know I will not....I truly am losing my love for him finally.

I just have this feeling that maybe God does have a role in that....was there a reason why I loved him soo long after Dday, after the he77 he put me through? Maybe God tries to soften our WH's hearts, but he cant control them....so slowly the love we had for them goes away....and if WH doesnt soften his heart and wake up before I lose all of my love, than that is all we or GOD can do about R.

At least I can move on in my life without looking back with regret...Ill have known I waited long enough and gave WH a chance to come home. Some of the problems in my M may have been my fault, but I was willing to work on them. WH was not.
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 07:10 PM
Atena,

Half of what a foggy WS says is bull, the other half is sh*t. Don't listen to them, they've got verbal diarrhea.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/25/10 07:14 PM
Yeah, you can tell when a wayward is lying...whenever they open their mouth and talk....
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/26/10 06:09 PM
I don't know why they bother lying. I mean what does my H have to lose now to tell the truth? Really, why not tell people at work he loves another and that yes he left because he wanted out of the M but also because he likes her more.
If they are so bold and so entitled why not be open to other and tell...
If they believe there is nothing wrong with what they are doing and if it is true that they do not spend a moment of the day thinking of us...why be so secretive even when in plan B?
My IC tells me to move on and to know that, as I described my H to her, he is a narcisist and needs meds and treatment. I should not dwell on him and she told me she is quite sure H does not give a single thought about me and what he did. She says he is disturbed and till he seeks medical treatment or counseling there is very little hope for me that he will come back to the M and even if he does she said I should not take him back in the conditions he is in now.
She said he is a 49 year old man acting like a 13 year old. His only worry is himself. She said she doubts H even really cares about OW. She said OW is a reflection of himself and of his fantasies and dreams. As long as she mirrows back those things to him the A will last, but when OW turns into herself and the sex rush is gone, H is going to find himself deep in the pits.
But he will blame OW for it, not himself, unless he seeks treatment. If he does not (chances are he will not) he will seek another person to mirrow back to him his fantasies.
She basically said not to wait for a looser.
I am sad....I just came back from IC about an hour ago.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/26/10 06:17 PM
I think waywards lie because deep down they know that what they did was dishonorable, skanky, and they would be considered low lifes....They need to blame us or else who are they gonna blame...THEMSELVES! OMG no way...

This is the way they all act in the A...the OP is telling them how we shafted the WS and didnt treat them the way they should have been...thats why they stay with them so long, OP is the one that condones everything the wayward does and all of their justifications....
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/26/10 06:28 PM
Oh yes, I am sure she is telling him how nice he is and how she can't believe I did not appreciate him and how dare I criticized him about xyz when he does everything so perfectly!
Plus, WH always cry on the shoulder of OW telling them all the things they did not like about us. Well I have proof of that because H always told me he could not make me happy and that I did not trust him (dahh). Well in her messages OW would say: I trust you! You make me soo happy!
Basically they tell them what they want to hear.
They also do not share the responsibilities of a family, bills, etc...It is just fun fun fun
But OW is certainly looking for something...and sooner or later she will show her dark side.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/26/10 06:39 PM
Yup, you hit the nail on the head there, atena....
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/26/10 06:41 PM
yep, they are doing plan A with our WH, just carrot and not stick.
I guess plan A can also create a successful A if OW applies it.
blessing
Posted By: QueeniesAdventures Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/26/10 10:28 PM
Originally Posted by lildoggie
Atena,

Half of what a foggy WS says is bull, the other half is sh*t. Don't listen to them, they've got verbal diarrhea.

I think it's safe to say if I listened to what mine said to me over and over again we would still be living separately and D by now.

Watch their actions... and even then, let g-d have them.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/28/10 09:58 AM
His actions so far tell me he has no intention to R the M.
He has agreed to sell the apartment we co-own and has not made any attempt to contact me.
He is living his new life in his new place and see OW for leasure time.
His actions are non actions towards me.
I think the M chapter for him is closed.
But then, I guess you too Queeney were in the same situation when in plan B. I see from this forum that lots of H do not make any contact during plan B.
From what I observed so far, the one that attempt more contact in plan B are then the ones who might think about R.
Our son is gone to college we are about to sell the house...there is nothing really he has to come back to.
Ma
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 03:46 PM
Hi all it is Sat and I am doing my homework for my on line degree. I can't stop thinking of H with OW and how much he does not care about me how easily he erased me from his life. A part of me is angry at him the other still hopes we can one day R. In Feb it would be 2 years that my H started this A and 5 months since the A was exposed and he moved out.
I still hope I can R the M but everybody including my IC really hope I move on and forget about such a callous cheater and lyer.
I am really having a hard time with this...no matter how much I keep myself busy...he is always in my head.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 04:50 PM
I am bumping this up because I did not "sleep with someone last night"

____________bump_________
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I am bumping this up because I did not "sleep with someone last night"

____________bump_________

I gotcha! I sure wish you didn't work with him, because I betcha you would feel better if you weren't triggered by his presence every day. frown
Posted By: TravelMonkey Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 05:17 PM
Hi atena,

I want you to know that I don't read that thread you mentioned and I'm sure that people wouldn't ignore yours just because that one is getting a lot of traffic.

We are in a similar situation, I feel. Although WS is openly with OW and all his family accept the situation, I still crazily want us to give the marriage a second chance. However, latest developments make it somewhat better for me to start divorce proceedings now and my family and friends see this as a positive move on my part.

I know what you mean about him always being in our head. I don't think that I will be able to not think about him until I have at least got the ball rolling. Us BS should be now looking forward to the second half of our lives - hopefully this time with someone who loves us the way we deserve to be loved.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 05:18 PM
You are right...unfortunately now for 3 days in a row I saw him. Once at lunch, once in the hallway and once in the library.
I did not look at him and kept doing what I was doing as if he was not there. I kept my head high...I did not do anything, he is the one who should hide. However seeing him hurts...I still love him. He is my H!
Another thing....People keep refering to me as single. I tell them I am still married and they reply: com'on get a grip...your H is cheating on you as we speak, he moved out etc... and you still declare yourself married? You would be a fool to take him back.
What should I reply?
blessing
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 05:31 PM
Atena,

the whole point of plan B is to NOT see your husband, nor hear about him in order for YOU to have a chance to recover. No guarantees that it will happen. Dr. Harley has said that letting go requires God�s help, he has no tools to help with letting go other than not seeing or hearing about your husband.

What can you do about it?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by atena
You are right...unfortunately now for 3 days in a row I saw him. Once at lunch, once in the hallway and once in the library.
I did not look at him and kept doing what I was doing as if he was not there.

But you still saw him. And everytime you see him, you are right back to Day 1, Atena.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 05:43 PM
I do not know what i can do. I am doing a degree on line so I can get a promotion on the job I am in. I have invested 5 years into this job and $17,000 for the degree on line. I took out a loan.
I live in a country where finding a job with a full contract as I have now at 45 is impossible. If I live I will not be able to sustain myself and after H left I only have my income to rely on.
I moved from the A apartment and have beeing living out of a suitcase going from friend to friend. I do not know what to do.
I could email H thru IM and ask him to schedule times at work when he goes to lunch to the cafeteria or when he plans to go to the restroom. But either than that I don't know.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 05:46 PM
Can you get a transfer?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 05:55 PM
The place is a private institution with no affiliates. If I move it will take me a couple of years before I can get a status here that will make me competitive in the job market. As far as it goes with the position I cover now..I am not as competitive as I will be after I get my degree and a couple of years of experience under the new job title.
Moving will kill my career severely.
blessing
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:09 PM
You know Atena, when something doesn�t have a solution, it is not a problem. It just is what it is.

I can understand your situation, it�s sort of similar to mine.

I recommend you concentrate on yourself. Think of what YOU want to do for yourself. Make a list and start working on those things.

You cannot control anyone but yourself. You will eventually find yourself enthusiastic about something...

I have been in plan B for 5 years now, and I�ve barely seen WH a few times in all these years and yet do think of him everyday. Mainly with sadness because I hate the fact that he�s wayward and an adulterer, but I know I can�t do anything more about it.
But I have found peace and I now enjoy every minute of the day and the night. I have a lot of hobbies, I�ve met a lot of new people, I spend my time in things I really enjoy, in spite of all life�s complications (my mother has terminal colon cancer, one of my daughters was among the stranded in Peru last week, I have a job which is not at all gratifying at the moment, I haven�t been able to sell my house, etc).

Life is difficult, so we have to try to not make it more so.

Concentrate on yourself and your son.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:18 PM
I guess at some point all this will be a memory.
The thing is H does not look good. He looks ashen..gaunt...he constantly rubbed his eyes as if of lack of sleep, looked unkept...he is probably having lots of sex and booze...
I would like to shake him and tell him: what are you doing to yourself, to us???
Strange days have found us...
blessing
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:23 PM
Atena,

you can�t do anything about it. Try to avoid imagining what�s going on in your WH�s life, because you are probably wrong, and it only makes you more anxious.

Try to do something new, different, by yourself or with a friend.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:27 PM
You are right, he is probably having a grand time and I imagine him miserable...I am so dumb.
I should get it by now...but still linger long on love street...you can tell I love the Doors.
blessing
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:27 PM
I startedlearning greek last year and it became the highlight of the week!

Itwas interesting, challenging and fun. I�m very much looking forward to continuing again this year.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:31 PM
I speak 4 languages and would love to learn greek. Greece is the my favorite place. But things like those do not take my mind away. I have always studied in my life and I am taking my 4th degree now on line. I have friends and see people regularly...the thing is...you can distract yourself but you have to go thru the pain not around it. Every little thing help, that's true.
blessing
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:32 PM
I didn�t mea that Atena. he�s probably not having a great time, but we won�t know that...

Waywards are so wrapped up in their own lies and denials that only they know what they are really going through. I�ve never seen a wayward here who will tell you that they had a great time while wayward... usually they say they weren�t having such a great time but couldn�t find their way out of the situation...
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:37 PM
well I don't know if any of you guys ever read Eat Pray and Love by E. Gilbert. Her M obviously ended because of her A with David (even if she blames problems in the M..as and WS would). Well her description of how she felt during the A gives us a good picture of how a WS might feel. She felt suicidal and tried to kill herself. She was depressed and lonely even in the A and did not like herself. She admitted that after the exilarating first months the A was hell. But it took her a while to break it off. She difined it as an infatuation and later on in the book she said she was in love with David..but I think infatuation was more accurate.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by atena
. She difined it as an infatuation and later on in the book she said she was in love with David..but I think infatuation was more accurate.

That sounds pretty accurate. Did you ever see the movie "Unfaithful" with Richard Gere and Diane Lane? I think that movie is one of the best depictions of affairs I have seen. It is a fascinating movie. And it does not glorify affairs or make you sick with the typical display of moral relativism that exists in most movies.
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:42 PM
I haven�t read that book and I don�t think I want to.

I�ve read some threads here by waywards and I really got the impression that they were suicidal, that�s why denial is easier for waywards, even when they are miserable.

You see, there is just no going back and deleting what they did. They carry it with them forever. That must be very hard.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:43 PM
this is also confirmed by a friend of mine with whom i recently reconnected thru FB.
She cheated on her H and left him. She ended up marrying her A guy but she said that after 8 years of her D she is just now starting to feel a little better. She has huge regrets about having left her H (which she said she will never admit to him) and she said that even if she is somewhat happy with her new A guy she knows her H is the only man who truly loved her.
She said that she had many times thought about suicide and that at the beginning when she first broke off her M the A did not help much to make her feel better. She had too much guilt but could not break off the A it was like an addiction.
Then her H re-married and had a tragic situation with his new W. So she felt guilty about that too...
What a mess...it is not worth it but they do it!
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:43 PM
I also think your H's affair is not so much fun anymore since it is out in the open. The thrill of sneaking around is gone. Now he is faced with the reality of a whiny OW and her snot nosed brats.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 06:47 PM
Yes, he spent xmas with them and her mom. I found out thru a bill that arrived in the mail about a train ticket he bought xmas eve and the destination was the town where OW is from.
Her kids are a nightmare and if that did not put some doubts in his head then nothing will...
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/30/10 10:32 PM
Oh, atena, I hate to see you having such a hard time...It is very very hard...I remember the first few months NOTHING distracted me. So I know exactly what you mean...I cried walking my son to school, I cried while he was in school, I had to set the alarm to remember to pick him up because I couldnt even keep track of time..

I was in a very very dark place. So I know exactly how you feel. But I can PROMISE you that it will get better, it will. It is so much better for me now. I rarely cry or even think about him much. Just hang in there. Just make it through every day as best you can and it will automatically just slowly get better, K?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:06 PM
Thank you!
At times I think I will never get over him. He is and was the love of my life. The thing that hurts most also, is the ease with which he erased me from his life and replaced me with OW.
He never loved me really otherwise it would be impossible to let someone go with such ease.
I will keep praying god for help.
blessing
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:10 PM
Atena, are you catholic?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:13 PM
No, why?
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:15 PM
Because you are in Italy (aren�t you?)and I thought that may have a influence in your life.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:21 PM
You mean it might have influence on the fact that I have a hard time letting go because catholics are against divorce? Or maybe Italians (which are not really...there are so many D people here and so many people not married living together)
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:24 PM
atena, all EYE-talians are Catholics! duh! grin
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:25 PM
No, actually what I meant was that for catholics marriage is a sacrament involving God and therefore it might be harder to let go.

The Church does not allow remarriage. It does accept divorce, if it is the only solution.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:27 PM
well I guess many are catholics, the majority. I was raised catholic but I am not one now.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:29 PM
As far as I know the roman catholic church does not recognize divorce. You marriage can be nul if the sacra rota decides so, but that is rare and it is a desion based on abuse or other heavy issues. Once you are divorced you should not be allowed the sacraments.
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:38 PM
Last I checked, if you are divorced you can receive the sacraments. If you remarry you can�t.

That makes it one marriage till death do us part for Catholics!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:48 PM
yep.
But I guess as far as I am concerned I do not need a religion to tell me that my integrity as a person is important and that it will dictate the way my life will unfold.
I know that if I were the WS I would feel tremendous guilt for the rest of my life and that guilt would shape my future, but H grew up without morals and his family has none. So for him it is ok to do what he does and his logic is pretty much: I was unhappy in my M, my W hurt me in many ways (I did not, but he thinks I did by complaining, nagging etc..)so now I deserve to be happy with someone else to make up for 20 years of unhapiness. Period. He feels no remorse.
blessing
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:52 PM
Ted Kennedy was a Catholic. He managed to get a marriage annulment after how many years...?
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:56 PM
well it�s a moot point now because Atena is not catholic.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 02:57 PM
yes, it is usually the well to do who can influence the sacra rota enough to get their marriage cancelled. Pricess Caroline of monaco got her first marriage annulled by the catholic church too. Connection and $$$$
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 03:01 PM
Look at the good side of this: if you are not religious you don�t have to worry about any of that and you can trust and depend on yourself to get over your husband!

Most people do get over their ex spouses and remarry. look forward to that, because I don�t think you would want to purposefully keep concentrating on your WH. Don�t do that to yourself!
Posted By: overthehump Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 03:36 PM
Atena, I just wanted to pop in and tell you hello. You're doing great! I'm just past 6 mths of PB and things are so much easier! I have rough patches but for the most part I feel as though a cancerous tumor has been removed! I still mourn the loss of my M and family but I've come to terms with the fact that it was mostly a fantasy anyway. My H was never M material. I really wanted a real M with him but because he had his own secret life going on he didn't feel the need to make the effort. So, I can hold my head high knowing I did the best I could do and so can you atena! As hurt as we've been and as victimized as we may feel, we can pick up and move on with integrity. Our WHs can't do that and what an albatross they carry! We may never see remorse but I don't doubt that this will affect them the rest of their lives in a very negative way. Best of luck to you!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 04:01 PM
thank you all for your kind words. It is a process but knowing me it will be a very long one. I am sure.
I am so monogamus that even in the face of all the stuff H did to me I still love him and would take him back.
blessing
Posted By: overthehump Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 04:09 PM
I'm with you on that one girl! But as time goes on I'm stronger in my resolve that I'd never take him back like he is now. We can hope and pray they will change but it's up to them to do it or want to. You were M a lot longer then me so I know it's harder.
{{{{atena}}}}
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 04:13 PM
I really did everything to save this M and I was looking forward to growing old with my H. We have so much in common and we like the same things.
But he liked the company of younger women as well...
blessing
Posted By: overthehump Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 04:40 PM
I'm so sorry....it's a huge loss and very painful.
{{{atena}}}
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 05:48 PM
Atena, have you read Lunamare�s thread? She has 2, one before and one after she started plan B. She's come a long way and is doing great.
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/10 05:55 PM
Another idea: Lunamare posted her plan B, I have preferred to write a journal for myself. We�ve both been in plan B since the same date and are both in the same situation now, after 5 years.

Time does heal.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/03/10 04:25 PM
I finally got a notice from my IM that H will be meeting the real estate agent tonight right at our appartment and will get the ball rolling for selling it.
I am happy in a way because that place was the A's nest and is in the building where OW lives, she is just downstairs. So no way could I ever live in that place again.
On the other hand it shows me how over my H is with the M and how little hope, if any there is to save it.
I am in tears now and my heart broke again for the 1,0000th time. I love my H and it is sad to see it all go go go.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/03/10 05:00 PM
....and...just to add to my post above...why does it hurt so much? Why can't I see how much he hurt me, how indifferent he is. Why do I still think that IF I had been less of this, if I would have done more of that...he would have not had the A with the downstairs neighbor? Why do I secretly justify him thinking that for him to do something so crazy he must have felt pretty miserable in the M.
Why am I not nice to myself?
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/03/10 05:19 PM
bump
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/03/10 06:49 PM
Atena,

good questions.

Unfortunately I think you have to find your own answers. No one can give them pre packed to you.

For some it hurts a lot and a long time but like a scar, with time it becomes like something in the background.

Others stop feeling so much pain much quicker and are able to put it away, only remembering it rarely.

You have to find your own personal way of managing, because I am sure you can.

Dr. Harley frequently says something that I like a lot: "what are the options?"

Just think what options you have for your situation which YOU control....
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/03/10 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Why am I not nice to myself?

I will venture a guess. It's only a guess.

You think your "giver" can control the way people treat you.
You think sacrifice will reward you with the good opinion of others.

Close?
Posted By: StillHereMakingIt Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/03/10 09:32 PM
Separate completely anything you said or did to cause the A...

And work on yourself and becoming a better W in the marriage...

They sound the same, but two entirely different things.

One is a very blaming place to be, the other is a place of learning and accepting that we are not perfect, that we are working on our M.

No matter how bad or good the M was, it was your WH's choice to step outside of it. There are many M that are better or worse than yours where the couples do not engage in an extramarital affair.

And if the M was so horrible why didn't YOU have an A?

So, what in the M do you have control over that you can make better, how can you become a better W. And remember, you can only do so much, it is his responsibility to make the M affair-proof too (not have opposite sex friendships, not find himself alone with females, not travel extensively or take a job far awy, etc...)
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/04/10 02:06 PM
Thank you for your support at this much needed time.
I am in plan B so I can't be working on being a good W just a good person for now.
I think sometimes it would be easier for me to say it is truly over, quit plan B and treat my H with cold distance not giving him the satisfaction to show him I am upset and do not speak to him.
I wish I were stronger and more determined to call it quits...
Posted By: ccbis Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/04/10 03:19 PM
Quote
not giving him the satisfaction to show him I am upset and do not speak to him.


If this is true, then you are not really in plan B, and that may be the problem.

I know it is practically impossible for you to do plan B but it is afterall the suggestion Dr. Harley gives to recover personally from the affair.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/26/10 09:42 PM
If it is true that romantic love ends when no deposit are made in the love account then why I am still in love with my H after such a long time he has not made any deposits? Why am I so triggered when I see him? I literally would like to hug him and kiss him.
How is it possible after so long a time he has failed to met any of my EN?
blessing
Posted By: redhat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/26/10 11:21 PM
atena,

First, NC in paln B is a must ... mind, body nor sight.
Second, plan B is not to get rid of Love Units in Love Bank. It is the opposite, it is to preserve it !.

I know it is very hard, I had been there too sigh

Is there any chances you go dark on your Plan B ?.

Extreme darkness ... no sight, no IM, no nothing. If you work at the same work place with H, you have to avoid your H path. (out of sight)

Next is very hard ... don't even day dream of having H back or even thinking of H ... (out of mind)

You let the love units drained out naturally ... not by LB'n on your head - you are hoping some H actions but never materializes ... nor by depositing from day dreams - you are fantasizing fillin your own needs (ENs).

Get busy and change you focus from H to something else ... I did have a certificate of completions for 2 semesters of Building Constructions smile . Go to local community college, they have a lot of certifications from Certified Nurse Assistance to Building Code.

Take a good care of yourself ... focus is on you.

-rh-
Posted By: not2fun Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/26/10 11:31 PM
Originally Posted by atena
If it is true that romantic love ends when no deposit are made in the love account then why I am still in love with my H after such a long time he has not made any deposits? Why am I so triggered when I see him? I literally would like to hug him and kiss him.
How is it possible after so long a time he has failed to met any of my EN?
blessing

First, because you ARE seeing him. Just the sight of him is a trigger for you. The same principle applies to you as it does to affairee's. This is why NC is so important when ending an affair, and why NC is so important in Plan B.....

Dr. H talks about how once a Love Bank account has been opened, it doesn't close. I can't remember the passage exactly, I'll have to look for it....but this is why.

not2fun
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/27/10 01:23 AM
truer words were never said than not2fun's last two replies!



I had felt so strong in B and perfectly fine and I caught a glimpse of my WH yesterday and it threw me for a loop (he dropped our child off and I saw him from a distance....he didn't see me). 'smack-a-do' since then I feel a bit beside myself wanting him and wanting him to want me.

It must be tough Atena seeing yours so often!
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/27/10 01:31 AM
I agree totally. It is precisely because you ARE trying to preserve the remaining love you have left for WH in the chance that WH comes back and R is possible. It also shows you why NC is so important when talking about affairees.

I have been in a tailspin since Saturday when I accomplished my mission "olive branch". I purposely broke my dark Plan B to let WH know that the door was still open. The first two days, I was okay. Then I was SAD SAD SAD. I have to refocus.

I hope that knowing you are not alone, will help you a lot.
Posted By: distanced Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/27/10 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by redhat
First, NC in paln B is a must ... mind, body nor sight.
Second, plan B is not to get rid of Love Units in Love Bank. It is the opposite, it is to preserve it !.


-rh-

I have read through your thread, Atena, and all the responses reagrding WH is so true.
WH is back in home country and still denies he is out with OW when I can confirm from worker they are together.

I am preparing for Plan B myself - WH will be back in the states next week and I plan to be out before he gets in.
Before I would be so sure WH will not tolerate NC, but now am culeless as to how he will respond now because lately his contact with me is very much less than before and to compare how he would connect to OW and OC is definitely not a balanced scale.

Yet I dont want to give up on his old ways which is against NC (he hates my my cold shoulder treatment) so if it happens how do you cope with the persistence if he wants to see me? 2nd week of March will have to meet up for my daughter's program.

I also am aware he may continue with NC then it becomes my eye opener that he has given up on R of M and prefers life with OW and OC

I really dont want to give up on WH - if he can be totally honest with me and NC with OW and OC I am willing ot take him back. I know this fog is really blocking his view and will not give up praying for him to see the light even if he is aware that he has wronged me.

But I also have figured he may not want me back in his life but since i dont have the burden to carry I think I can move on better than he would and I pity him.....
Posted By: redhat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/28/10 01:43 AM
Distance,

You aren't in plan B yet, you have to be in plan A. Cold shoulder is a no no in M, it is LB'ng.

Confirm H's words asap.

Have you exposed A ?

Open a new thread for you to get better response.

-rh-
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/28/10 10:30 AM
So when I see my H at work, and I am in plan b, and of course I pretend I do not see him, I make no eye contact and go my own way....is that LBing?
blessing
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/28/10 04:08 PM
Atena,
I am going to take a guess on your question.

I think it probably is LBing. But, at least you are not having angry outbursts, making demands or disrespectful judgements (unless pretending he isn't there is a DJ?).

If you see him, you must be suffering so very much more than if you really could avoid it at work.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/28/10 06:00 PM
The tricky thing is that, since we work in the same place, I am tempted to see him. Even if I know I should avoid it, when he has lunch I take glipses of him from the window (we have an outside area where we eat lunch and the weather here is pretty nice year-round). I some times indulge looking at him (he does not see me) and afterwards I feel terrible. You can look but you can't have.
The worst feeling. It is all my fault. I really have to stop that, it is killing me.
I think it is a LB because when I accidentally run into him and I pretend he is wallpaper (ok, from a distance, but still ignoring him) it must make him feel bad and increase his hateful feelings towards me.
I have to actively avoid him.
It is a killer
blessing
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/28/10 06:05 PM
Phew!

I totally relate on many levels Atena. I sometimes get glimpses of my WH though it is possible to not. The joy of the glimpse/ the grief of the glimpse. Yikes.

Try, try, try to stop with it. Try to promise yourself little treats for resisting a day at a time. Tangible treats (flowers, movie, something small but special to feel your sense of selfness).

If you accidentally run into him.....wink, smile, and or blow quick kiss and move onward?! Not sure on this one but others may have input pro and con on it. The key word being ACCIDENTALLY run into him.....not on purpose make it appear accidental? (I have to lol at this last sentence though it is serious stuff).
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/28/10 06:18 PM
Originally Posted by reading
If you accidentally run into him.....wink, smile, and or blow quick kiss and move onward?! Not sure on this one but others may have input pro and con on it. The key word being ACCIDENTALLY run into him.....not on purpose make it appear accidental? (I have to lol at this last sentence though it is serious stuff).

If you run into him, do nothing. There are no good solutions, but that is the LEAST damaging, IMO.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/28/10 06:21 PM
A comment about Plan B by Dr Harley:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Your best plan of action right now is plan B. And you will have to make it air-tight to keep you sane. Otherwise, every casual contact, even at your children's events, is likely to take a terrible toll on your mental and physical health.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/28/10 06:30 PM
It is sort of an addiction I feel towards WH. It is really the same, I think, of what a WS feels about OP. The idea that the OP can't be yours all the time, that there are obstacles and that makes OP more intriguing.
It is really not healthy as it is not logical at all to love someone like WH who has hurt me so much.
I will make every effort as I now see really it is an addiction. The mind and body are addicted to a happy story which is no longer true.
blessing
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/28/10 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by reading
I totally relate on many levels Atena. I sometimes get glimpses of my WH though it is possible to not. The joy of the glimpse/ the grief of the glimpse. Yikes.

Try, try, try to stop with it.
I can't possibly begin to tell you how much I agree with this and how true I find it!

I am typing this from a study room in the library rather than the comfort of my own home right now because I learned a short while ago that WW was coming by to retrieve some things she left behind and that I have put on the back porch so that she can do so without me having to grant her access to the house.

Seeing her is such a painful event, and is such a major trigger for me that I have chosen to leave the house for the afternoon rather than risk seeing her -- even knowing that she is coming and could "hide" myself in a bedroom or such.

I understand that seeing her is a setback in my recovery. I'd rather get better in my life than "circle the drain" in some wishful thinking that somehow WW will "see the light" and choose to recover the marriage. In fact, just seeing the light would not be enough. She'd have to make wholesale changes, and I just don't see that happening.

So, even though she violated my IM boundary by going around it and contacting a friend (who also violated a boundary by telling me), I have chosen to keep my recovery going forward rather than tempt fate and slip.

My therapist used a good analogy. She said the difference between my logical mind knowing what was better for me and my emotional sense was like a locomotive and a caboose. My logical mind is the locomotive and my emotions are the caboose. It's just going to take some time for my caboose to catch up to where my locomotive is.

Atena, you should, if at all possible, make every effort to NOT see, bump into, glimpse, spy or otherwise get any knowledge of WH's whereabouts. It does you absolutely no good!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/28/10 06:44 PM
Fred, you did well! Good for you!
It seems that recently so many people are reporting about WH. I went to my bike shop and the guy there said he saw my WH with OW and that she dropped off WH who had to pick up his bike being serviced. The guy made comments such as: you H aged, OW is nothing to go crazy about...how could he, bla bla..
The of course there are collegues at work who report that H had lunch with middle school kids in order to avoid talking to collegues ....
I got lots of reports in the past 3 days and then seeing him is not good.
NC is really NC.
I think even the idea that you WW is in your house now must be a trigger!
Blessing
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/28/10 07:42 PM
Well, atena, WW is _not_ in my house, which was the purpose of leaving her [censored]on the back porch (that was self-censorship, by the way). However, the fact remains that even seeing her drive up in the car or slogging through the muck to the back yard would be more than I want to handle.

It's sad, because my 'caboose' still gets rattled, even though my 'locomotive' knows better.

For example, my daughter went to the doctor Friday (she recommended this Dr. to WW) and then told me that the Dr. has asked her, "Are WW and your dad getting divorced?" Now I don't know why this should affect me, but it did. Even though I know this from a logical standpoint, it still gets to me on an emotional level.
Posted By: Kristy66 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/01/10 12:35 AM
hello, Atena and Fred,
How are you, I found you two on this tread. I have to say to Atena that I feel very sorry about your situation too. I have to say that I feel I am a bit over my H now, I have started No contact with my H since last Monday, I sent him a letter sort of start the plan B. absolutely no contact except a proposal I have to sign. I actually feel much better now, I do not think about him, when I see him, he is a total stranger to me. I guess I have never loved him that much maybe? I just feel I deserve someone better than this old pile of sh*t(sorry a bit rude). Occasionally I feel this angry and rage feeling, then it passes in about 10 minutes. I sometimes feel sad for my son, but there is nothing I can do at the moment. So I am fully prepared to get a divorce now and decided to move on. Before the final divorce, if he wants to come back, he HAS TO agree with my condition of having him back, this includes a very tough post nuptial agreement. Otherwise I am not prepared to have him back.

A trick I found is to find something else to do, fill your time and refocus your mind on other things, think how your future will be without this terrible person, think how exciting it can be to meet a new love, a new life with someone that you do not have to think about the pain constantly and have to spent the time to R your M, rather build a new M that both can trust each other, of course you will learn to set up measures to avoid A happens again. But I have to say for me this future looks much brighter than having H back and never trust him ever again. So be optimistic and be brave, you know you derserve better and you should try your best to get it. life is short, why going around circles? If you make the decision to move on, you will feel much better. Then whatever happens at the end, you know you have not treated yourself too badly. If your H wants to come back, take it, otherwise so what? Feeling sad and trapped will not get you your H back!

I hope my words help you a bit. Best wishes,

Kristy
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/01/10 01:29 AM
Atena-HUGS to you. There are times when I want to check WH's cell usage(I still have access). What am I looking for? I just want to KNOW what he is doing. Is it right? Nope and that's why I try not to do it. I slipped a few times and gave myself a 2x4 in Melody Lane, Neak, Pep and many other posters voices(yes you all have voices, although I am sure you sound different IRL).

I also have a BIG problem with NOT seeing a GLIMPSE of my WH when he is picking up the kids. The worst day was the day I looked out and POSOW was sitting IN MY SEAT in MY CAR. That was the day I decided to STOP looking out the window. It hurt me more to see him than it helped.

The one thing I do realize though is a lot like what you said. This must be in some way how a WS feels towards their AP. That must be why they slip sometimes with NC. No excuse though.

It is hard but to be in a true Plan B, there should be NC whenever possible. If there is ACCIDENTAL contact, then you should handle it with grace. It will hurt you more to have any contact. That's why you can't even do things like check a facebook page or other things like that. It hurts you. Stay strong.
Posted By: redhat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/01/10 03:36 AM
Originally Posted by atena
So when I see my H at work, and I am in plan b, and of course I pretend I do not see him, I make no eye contact and go my own way....is that LBing?
blessing


Unless you are a very good actress in pretending not seeing him. Yes, you are LB'ng. You should hold you head high, make eye contact, smile, and acknowledge him ... walk with out a words.

You are in a split second plan A then go back to plan B.

This is only because accidental enountered ... you have to avoid contact at all cost.

-rh-
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/01/10 04:40 AM
Um...

Plan B = No contact.

Either you do a full plan B or none at all.

You do not get breaks.
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/01/10 05:04 AM
Atena and Scotty,

Remember that Plan B is to protect YOU and not to punish your WH or to leverage for the end of the affair. The less contact you have with him the better off YOU will be and if and when the affair is over you might have enough left to try to recover. If you constantly have to put up with the drama and pain of seeing them together or just catching a glimpse of him your resentment will grow.

Also remember that you are in Plan B to save enough for later and that for those who get to recovery the biggest obstacle is usually the BS. If you lose all respect and all love for him there will be nothing that can be done to bring you back together.

Mark
Posted By: redhat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/01/10 05:07 AM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
Um...

Plan B = No contact.

Either you do a full plan B or none at all.

You do not get breaks.


IMVHO. Most people can't do Plan B with continues contact. This thread is included.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/01/10 10:16 AM
Thank you all for your help.
OK, no more glipses of H. I will put 200% of the effort. As I said, I realize now it is an addiction from my part. Just like a crack head.
But, the occasional encounter with WS is always possible. At the grocery store, at the doctor's office, at the airport...in the hallway at work (in my case).
I like the idea of doing a mini plan A, looking in the eyes, briefly smile and quicky move on keeping the head high.
I wonder what Harley would suggest in this case....Again we can't deny that occasional contact is totally possible...saying it is not would be a lie. You can always run into someone you would rather not see...including WS!
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/08/10 06:17 PM
It is the six months mark today as H and I and been separated for 6 months. He has not made any attempt at contacting me except thru the IM to discuss the sale of our home.
He is still seeing OW as I was told by the bike guy I bring my bike to repair to.
He is barely in touch with our son who is in college far away. son tells me dad never calls and send emails once in a blue moon. H has cut all ties with friends and at work he keeps up the bare minimun with collegues.
Also at work he is pretty checked out since he is unhelpful and just puts in his minimum hours.
He looks aged but he is in great shape.
At this point I guess his A is one of those that last a long long time.
Will this ever get better!?
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/08/10 07:22 PM
bump
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/08/10 07:33 PM
Atena,

I am around the same time frame in B and have to remind you

Stop trying to guess!

You have no clue what he is working through in his mind. What will happen in the future. What this and what that.

You DO know that the more involved you are in the affair even just thinking about it, the more you get frustrated with your own life.

I totally know how toxic that is.

You, me, we MUST stop with expectations and wanting to control the outcome.

Castle walls are to help create peace inside AND hope can stay alive but not be something we dwell on.

Speech over.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/08/10 08:10 PM
I guess I still have so much investement into this victim role. I am nothing without my H and my new life amounts to very little..just routine. Can't say I like it.
I miss talking to him, sharing things with him, our son, our home, our plans. Love.
What do I have now?
What I have now is nothing compared to my life with my H and son.
blessing
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/08/10 08:21 PM
Okay then,

you know what you have to do beginning this moment.

Create a life without them.

H, who knows what the future is with him and your son is off at college.

Art? Join a club? Become a nature lover who goes on hikes in a hiking group? Take up gym membership and focus on getting more endurance? Something that is fun. Something you can make social. Something that reminds you who Atena really is. Really, really is (pre-H)

This is what you need to focus on right now. Whatever the future brings.......do not be a victim. Be the owner of your life.

"What is life for? It is for you"~ quote of Abraham Maslow
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/08/10 08:40 PM
thank you reading for coming to the resque...I do lots of things, I bike to work daily, I study, I teach....I mean, i have lots on my plate, still...I just think it takes a while to let go. The fact that I at times get glipses of my H at work does not help at all. I think if I did not have that I would be ok...much better off than I am now.
I think OW is more in my head than in H's these days....really. Maybe not...but I so much dwell on it.
Blessing
Posted By: redhat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/08/10 11:45 PM
hurray ... get busy. Focus should not be on WH but building your life with or without him.

It will get better if you use your time wisely. You will survive this and be happier in life even if your M won't.

-rh-
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/09/10 12:04 AM
Atena- How long has it been since you saw WH? It is withdrawal that you could be dealing with right here and it SUCKS. After I went to PLan B, I was depressed. it started to get better. Then I accomplished Operation: Olive Branch, and I did it face to face. It was 2 months and 2 days since I had seen, written or spoken to WH. That day and the next I felt GREAT. I wanted to talk to him again(I didn't). I expressed tat on my thread. Then for the next 5 days, I WAS SAD SAD SAD. It was withdrawal all over again. I was PREPARED to see him and I KNEW I was going to feel really down after. It didn't make it any easier.

Because you kept seeing him, it may be that you are having all of the feelings you should have had 6 months ago. Hang tough. It will get better.

WOW, I just almost accidentally answered my phone and it was WH. Now my heart is pumping and adrenaline is flowing through my body. I wasn't thinking because I was writing on here and that was using up my brain for that moment. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN BAD.

I really can't imagine the torture you must have been dealing with all of these months. I probably would have lost my mind in that time.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/09/10 02:34 PM
Thank you for your posts!
A lot of times I talked to myself...like I am crazy...and tell myself:
what part of "he is a real jerk you do not get?"
He gaslighted me for years and his behavior during this most recent A towards me, our son and everybody else was despicable.

He is not to be trusted again in no form or manner. He is like poison and will slowly kill me if i let it.
Even if my plan b is imperfect (given I do see him from time to time...even if I never made eye contact...) I can't imagine what I would be without it. Talking to him, seeing him....and he wanting to be friends and me pretending to be friends hoping for more. It would have killed me for sure!
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/10/10 06:31 PM
I got news that a position in the place where H and me work will be opening and that is the very position H was hoping get and he has a master degree he just finished that is exactly in that field. The big boss and my H's supervisor(they both know about my H's A and the unloyal way he dealt with me...)will be doing the hiring. My H does not get along with neither of them, especially his supervisor. The big boss, a woman whose H betrayed her and had kids with OW, I think is pretty biased against my H, but she is also a person who is very difficult to read and who would make impreditable decisions. You never know...H is good at what he does and he might land the job which would pay pretty good money....plus it will make him stay in the workplace when I was hoping he would leave and seek fortune elsewhere.
Is there anything I can do to make it hard for him to get that job, or it is just better to let it go and hope that, since nobody likes him he will not get it?
blessing
Posted By: redhat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/10/10 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Is there anything I can do to make it hard for him to get that job, or it is just better to let it go and hope that, since nobody likes him he will not get it?
blessing


Do nothing, not even thinking if he gets it or not. Why not getting a degree for your self ?.

-rh-
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/10/10 06:54 PM
I am getting one-
blessing
Posted By: redhat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/10/10 07:46 PM
Good for you. I am also glad that you are active on posting to others.

I got mine while licking my wound from D. This forum & getting my second master degree kept me sane.

-rh-
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/10/10 07:49 PM
thank you red hat, I am getting my first master, I would love to get a PhD. I always tell people that if I win the lottery I would get as many degrees as I could. I love to study....
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/15/10 12:52 PM
A few days back I said I was going to put 100% effort to avoid WH at work.
Well, I am running into him all the time.

All last week and now I started today, Monday, where I was climbing the stairs and he was right in front of me. So I slowed down but then a collegue came up from behind and started to talk to the both of us. She does not know we are separated I guess, or she does and wants to be difficult. HOwever I kept my cool and did not respond to the collegue I let my H answer and he mubled something incoprehensible.
Then after lunch he was talking with a collegue right in front of the office I work in. Fortunately this collegue knows, but I was 2 inches from H and still managed not to make eye contact.
I think this is seriously jeopardizing an already very improbable recovery! But I guess it is what it is.
Also,I was talking to an older collegue last week and she told me I look much better and less sad. She also said that I should be happier without my WH as she always felt from him a very strong sexual vibe and availability. In other words, she said: he is the only guy at work who you know you could sleep with any time if you wanted to. He just gives off the vibe: I am available if you are. And being very handsome you can imagine the results. This is a punch in the stomach but also another wake up call in case I needed any more of them.
This guy was truly a womenizer and a disrespecful b@stard.
And he has the guts to think it is all my fault if the M collapsed.
This makes me soo upset I can't even breathe....
Sorry, I really had to vent.
Blessing
PS: Yesterday, strangely enough I met OW walking with a girl friend (not with WH)in a place where you would never run into anybody...a very crowded street in a huge city. I was surprized as she always spends Sundays with WH...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/15/10 02:20 PM
ok, now explain to me again why you can't get out of there?? crazy
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/15/10 02:29 PM
I wish I could. Finding another job in this country where I now live would be near to impossible. I have to finish my master degree and I am still in a temporary living situation. The only permanent thing right now is my job and the income that comes from it.
I have asked many other places if they have openings but they are actually cutting positions.
H must also HATE to run into me.
I must be a fool to think of R still after all he is done to me and after what I found out about his personality...
it hardly matters.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/15/10 02:52 PM
This is such a horrible way for you to live. frown
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/15/10 02:54 PM
It is pure torture! I would leave this job if I could. I know it would be so much easier if I did not see him constantly as I do. I see him every day now except on week ends....
I feel love for him every time I see him and hate myself for being so weak and stupid.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/30/10 11:48 AM
It has been 6 months I have been in plan B. Just 2 days ago I thought things were getting better....I felt somewhat of a shift and all of a sudden a sense of detachment from H.
Today I am back in the dumps. I know the M is over...after 6 months of absolutely no sign of H wanting to R and with his A still alive and kicking....
I do envy LadyLongLegs...she has done in a few months what will probably take me years to do.
Sorry for being such a drama queen. I still love my H...I am starting to feel very stupid when I say those words...maybe I should reflex on this:
Do I want to be happy or with my H? Because I know that I can't be happy with him....
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/30/10 11:59 AM
(((((ATENA)))))

I am sorry that you feel this way. I am sure that in a couple of months you can help me get through this rough patch too. Some days really do suck during Plan B. For me, it usually occurs when I think too much about WH. If DSx2 tell me things that they did with WH or about POSOW's apt and how they are making it like here(that was last night, arghhhhhhhh). I hope you are trying extra hard not to see him on a daily basis. How is that working out for you? Also, make sure you tell others that you don't want to hear ANYTHING about either one of them. That can send you in a tail spin for sure. HANG TOUGH You will learn what you have to through all of this. laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/30/10 12:18 PM
Yes, I had some triggers, that is true. I had to check on some bills and instead of focusing on what I needed to look at I went overboard and checked deeper and basically got a pretty good snapshot of how he spends his weekends with her...restaurants by the beach, etc...etc...This is his money so I have no say about that....and I could totally avoid looking into it. Then today I picked out of the window while he was having lunch. He looked good and he was tanned already!
I am so jelous of OW still. How can that be? At this point she is it. Why why why???
In fact the reason why I was feeling better in the past days was because I had not seen him nor heard of him.
I am visiting son for a week and that is also a trigger because every time I am with son I can't help thinking we were a family and H would have been with us...instead of with a shanko.
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/30/10 12:35 PM
EGG ZACK LEE. I knew that you probably had some close encounters of the wayward kind. That always does it for me. How lucky we are(sarcasm) because these things will make us stronger. Just try a little harder NOT to see him or think about what they are doing.

As far as being jealous of her, well STOP THAT. What is there to be jealous about a skankho? She thought so little of herself that she found a MM to have a relationship puke with instead of someone unattached. How bad must she feel about herself that she has to take a MM away from his family to make herself feel good? Also, she KNEW she was having an A, you didn't. I thought about this. I have more self respect because I was NOT okay with my WH sleeping with BOTH of us, yet she was. puke Is this someone you should be jealous of? NOPE.

Head up, no looking back. Let WH get glimpses of how much of a GODDESS YOU ARE. laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/30/10 12:45 PM
Quote
Head up, no looking back. Let WH get glimpses of how much of a GODDESS YOU ARE.
I loved this quote Scotland.
He does not get glipses of me in terms of seeing me from a window..but maybe he hears thru the grapevine that I am doing well and looking good. In general he keeps to himself so people do not talk to him about me.
But you know what...I am going to spend time with my son while he is going to spend "quality" time with a the loser OW. If he stops and thinks about it for even a second...he must feel bad, even if just a little. But again, we are talking wayward here and they have no concern but themselves.
blessing
Posted By: Mark1952 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/30/10 01:20 PM
The best revenge is a life well lived...
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/31/10 12:32 PM
Thank you all. It is great help. I am really down these days....so I went back and read my old posts from 2008. I have been down way before 2008 so I have been feeling this way for years.

I was reading one of my posts from Dec 2008 and my H was already in a full blown A with the neighbor (I did not suspect an A at all then and not even Steve Harley did) and he was sooo good at covering it up and my post said that H said to me: "I want to separate and start a new life alone, I will not date anybody for a while I just want to be alone as my self esteem is so low and I am so unhappy that the only way to find myself is to start a new life."

What a liar! He was already cheating on me with her and he had the guts to tell me that he would not date for a while after we separated....
He was planning it all right! Separate from me then after a few months tell the world that he hooked up with the nice neighbor...oh yes very nice, I remember her....and that he now found his joy and love!

And we were supposed to believe that tale? Did he think I was so dumb (and son) not to put 2 and 2 together and re-construct the A love story he had with her while still living with us?
What an [censored]!
I guess it really need to sink into me soo deep that he is an [censored] that I have to show myself more and more proof of it. I just want him out of my mind. He and her. Both.
Thank you for listening...
Blessing
Posted By: redhat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/31/10 02:53 PM
Quote
What an [censored]!

Make a list of reasons that you want to run away from him. Every time you feel weak, you need to pull that list and re-read it from the top to bottom. When you found a new reasons, add it to the list.

-rh-
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/31/10 05:02 PM
Thank you. Every little thing helps. I love this forum!
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/01/10 05:29 PM
Hi all,
today, thru my IM I got a message from H saying I have to wire him 2500 from our savings to pay for a trip he is taking and for a bill he has to pay.
Of course i will not wire him anything. The guts to ask that!!!!
I am forced to pay rent and half of our mortgage because he has A with the downsteirs neighbor and he has the face to ask me to give him money??????????????
These waywards are nuts. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Blessing
Posted By: redhat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/03/10 07:41 PM
Write it down on your "Why should I run far away from him"'s list.

Yes, they will try to engage you and make you the bad guy. Again don't reply and don't provide contact. Stay strong.

-rh-
Posted By: arkhawk1 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/03/10 10:41 PM
Ladies,

I know you feel depressed and your self esteem has taken a huge hit. But, I for one, would be ecstatic to be married to someone with your commitment, forgiveness and desire to make your marriage the best it could be. If your WHs cant figure that out, then they are just selfish and will likely never be satisfied in life.

It's a shame they can't find contentment in what they have rather than looking for the greener grass (which is usually over the septic tank).

I know that it is difficult not to let the poor decisions of an immoral, irresponsible person affect your life, but that's where we all are. At the very least, we will all grow and be better through this. Hopefully, your WHs will too.

Good luck to you, and I hope the best for you all.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 11:36 AM
Hi all,
I have been away visiting my son in the US. It went well but we both missed my H, it was evident that our family as we knew it was shattered. However, we managed to have a good time together and it was obvious to my son how much I love and care about him.
I think it is important for him to know that.

Today I had a stressful time at lunch. My H was sitting at a distant table and a collegue come up to me and loudly said, let's go and sit with your H. I am not sure he heard or not, but I said to her: no, I am fine here thank you. She ended up sitting with me. She then asked me if I wanted to be alone and I said to her: no, the reason why I am not sitting with my H is because he cheated on me with the downstairs neighbor and we have been separated now for 6 months. She then asked a bunch of questions and at some point I said it did not help me to rehash the past and what happened.
I regret telling this person (who I do not consider a friend and who I know has slept around with married men) my private info.
I am not sure I did the right thing. I sounded angry and upset when I was telling her about my H and me....
When does exposure stop? Do you all have any advice on how to handle a situation like that in the future or even on how to handle people who ask about me and H? Should they know the truth?
Is it enough to say: we are separated and if they keep asking questions as to why simply say: sorry is personal?
Please help... I do not want to come across at work as an angry b*tch who hangs out her dirty laundry....
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 12:05 PM
I think you handled it as best as you could have. I come across a similar problem when there are people I haven't seen in awhile and they ask me how my WH is. I usually do it with a smile. I respond with, "I don't know, maybe you could call him at his mistress's house and ask him." When it is said with a smile, people tend to not want to talk to you about it too much. I had a girl ask me how I was losing so much weight so fast because she wanted to do it too. I said, "Well, first fall in love with someone, get married, have a family with him and then he can start sleeping with someone else and leave you for her." The whole time I was smiling. She just shook her head and said "Nevermind."

If this woman is as you say, are you sure she didn't already know? It sounds a bit fishy to me. Or do people not know at your workplace?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 12:15 PM
Scotty, I think you are right, this woman knows all the people who know about me and H at school. Yes, she must have known all along and played dummy. She was also very interested in knowing if my H was still seeing OW...probably because if he was not she could have a chance with him....
She is know to pursue married men.

I like your suggestion about using humor!!!! Thank you so much, I will use it at the next opportunity.
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 01:07 PM
I am reading many spiritual writings and the theme of forgiveness always comes up.
They tell you to forgive but they also remind you that you need to distance yourself from people who hurt you.
How can I forgive my H and move on?
It is a very heavy burden to hate him and to pretend he is not important in my life.
What you do to others you end up receiving for yourself.
Is all this heaviness I experience due to the fact that I have so much hatred towards him and that I feel, deep inside, that it is not right to hold a grudge. The situation is as hard on me as it is on him. Maybe harder on me that on him.....why am I hurting so much?
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 06:00 PM
Well, I thought the day was over...but no...H sent me all the paperwork I have to fill out (thu the IM) for our son financial aid at the last minute. This stuff needs to be ready and done by tomorrow. I started crying at work...first time it happened...and my H collegue happened to walks in...(my H hates this man)

He said he knew things were not right between us and he wanted me to know that my H has been acting horribly towards him for the past year. He has been passive aggressive and outward mean towards this guy and talking badly about him. Since the 2 of them have to colaborate on many issues this guy told me that H has refused to help and ignored him or procrastinated things to the point of doing them badly or half baked.
this guy added that my is not the same person and has became totally unreliable and untrustworthy.
Of course when I told him about my H's A and all the sh�t he put us thru this guy was agast.
He said I am better off without him.
How can an A drive a man to this point
--where he does not care about his own son
--whre is anger and guilt make him mean and vindictive...
Does the A make H feel so empowered and loved and secure that he feels entitled to vent his frustration and anger into everyone because the only thing he needs and has is the love of OW and that will conquer all evil????? Is this even possible???
What can this OW do to him to make him feel so entitled and full of himself and not make him give a darn about anything or anybody????
I am spent, it has been so long now that I have been going thru this...years of misery with him and I am still not feeling any better....I wish there was an explanatin to his behaviour at least that would help a little.
I have a hard time believing that an A can transform a person to thi extent! and OW is not much to brag about!
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 06:10 PM
((((ATENA))))

I am so sorry you are having a continued bad day. The next time someone starts talking to you about WH in ANY capacity, put up your hand in a STOP gesture and say, "We are not currently together and I would LOVE to hear NOTHING about him." Ask them if there is something else they need and then continue from there on out.

Even hearing these kinds of things is going to throw you into a FUNK.

As far as how an A can change a person, it sure does. That's because to be in the affair, the WS USUALLY has to change things about their basic moral code to even continue with their actions. They have to change themselves. They don't believe what they once did. And you know what? They don't like themselves much either(but they would never admit it while ACTIVE). Their anger and resentment is because they can't see the good in the world anymore. They are in the dingy dank sewer. The world is horrible. How could they be anything but cranky and mean? Only thing is, they are so foggy that they can't actually see the good. They have to think that OP is great. How could they throw away who they are and what they held so dearly for anyone who is less than great?

(((((ATENA)))))

Now, what are you gonna do for YOURSELF today(after you fill out the paperwork)?
Posted By: _SOL Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 06:22 PM
Ditto to what Scotland said. I would also offer that the affects of the A is so much like a drug/alcohol addiction. There is the denial and the willingness to sacrifice so much and risk losing everything, for whatever 'rush' they get from the A. It is sad and sickening at the same time.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 06:24 PM
But if the A never ends or lasts a long time, and we know that that happens often, does that mean that WH will keep getting meaner and meaner? I mean, there are lots of people who are in a relationship born out of an A and they do not seem any meaner or nicer than the average person. Or maybe you can actually spot a person that has betrayed a M by noticing his/ her sense of entitlement and deep anger???
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 06:31 PM
I think the risk is now become a certainty....my H lost everything. me, the trust of his son and of his collegues at work...his parents and his siblings for the most part.
The point is, he does not care. Also, what if OW is really the right person for him. What if she is able to make him feel so great and appreciated that he can't help it but want to leave everything for her? What if they truly fell in love and that love is real?
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 06:34 PM
Not always. Some people have a sense of entitlement and they aren't wayward. My sister is a person like that. Also, it isn't necessarily that WS are meaner than ALL people, but they are meaner than their non A counterpart. The person they were before the A. My WH wasn't always the way he is now. It was only last summer that I wrote in my journal and in letters to WH that I didn't understand his anger and disdain towards me. It was like he HATED me and I couldn't understand what I could have possibly done. Well, now I know. It wasn't me afterall. That is what sucks. He is not the person I know him to be. He may never be that person again. I have hope that DH is in there somewhere.

Even my kids noticed the difference. They would tell me how horrible WH had been to them. People who have known WS's BEFORE they started the A would notice the differences whereas, people who just meet them, wouldn't notice the difference. KWIM?
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 06:38 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I think the risk is now become a certainty....my H lost everything. me, the trust of his son and of his collegues at work...his parents and his siblings for the most part.
The point is, he does not care. Also, what if OW is really the right person for him. What if she is able to make him feel so great and appreciated that he can't help it but want to leave everything for her? What if they truly fell in love and that love is real?
blessing

I had these thoughts too. "What ifs" will do you no good.

If OW really was the be all end all, then why didn't they do it the right way? You see to have an A, both parties have to LIE. Both parties have to change their morals(unless the OP already has such low moral code to begin with). Most "Normal" people wouldn't "date" a married person. Believe me, even IF this A lasts, it won't be a party of roses and rainbows.

Chin up Atena, you are doing fine. So how have you been coming along on your attempts to not get glimpses at WH?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 06:51 PM
Today I did pretty badly because of all the triggers, but I did not try to see H ....I did see his back however while going to lunch and that' s when I proceded to sit at a far away table from his.
I was away for 10 days but I was with so and son is a trigger...unfortunately. I hate to say that, but when I am with son I think and miss H constantly.
I try to do my best to avoid hearing about or even seeing H. Some days go by without triggers but I think triggers must be part of all plan Bs...who is that BS who is in plan b and has no triggers? Maybe if you have no kids that is very possible...but if you have kids and other interests in common, you will have a bunch of triggers to deal with!

I am just waiting for the love to be gone...then a trigger will not be an issue.
but I still love him and would still take him back...now, if he called me!
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 06:57 PM
Quote
I am just waiting for the love to be gone...then a trigger will not be an issue.
but I still love him and would still take him back...now, if he called me
IKWYM hug

I think that's why DrH recommends 2 years for Plan B. But that is with very minimal contact. Everytime you see him or have contact, you set your clock back to 0. Just like a WS does while in withdrawal.

BTW, DS7 looks EXACTLY like WH. So much so that his nickname since he was born is "mini me"
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 07:58 PM
I guess the day is really not over! I just came back from the grocery store adn I met an acquaitance there.
She was talking about general stuff and then all of a sudden she said that she sees my H all the time. H has joined a sports team(I knew this all along because I was part of it for a brief period of time) where they do races with canoes travelling all over the country. She said that he has been testing to start the new season of races and that he is all into it...made friends with a bunch of people and does very well on the team. ...I could not stop her if I wanted to...she was able to tell me all this in one breath.
I told her that I am not interested in what H is doing and then I said good bye to her...have a good evening...I am sure she told me all this to hurt me..she knows we are separated.
OK, so my H is not at all miserable! He has been having lots of fun...the team he is part of is full of women so he must be having a blast.
He has new friends, new interests, keeps in shape....he is mean and arrogant with me and at work, but I am sure that in his new environment with his new friends he is a charm...grrrrrr
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 08:20 PM
bump
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 08:23 PM
Atena,

what is seen outwardly from a wayward often does not reflect what goes on inside.
I am sorry for this blip in your PB, let it go as best you can and carry on making a good life for you and your son
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 08:31 PM
thank you littledoggie, I should be in bed now as I am in europe and is late...but I can't help beeing so devastated.
I am sure that inside my H is not happy. But there is a big difference between the 2 of us...he is going on with his life and trying to make the best of it by developing new frienships and interests...
I, instead, do not have the energy for it and seem to be very discouraged by it all. I know he is a scum bag and that no outside stimulation can change that..I also know that all this obsession with canoes is due to the fact that he has always had a great body and great looks and he is afraid of not being able to sustain it for long at 50 so he is trying his best to stay young and defeat the fear of death.
But all those things are just words and speculations...many people are obsesssed with their image and do not leave their M...
I really do not know what to think...but I am afraid he is happier without me. It is hard for me to come to terms with this.
blessing
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 08:42 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I am sure that inside my H is not happy. But there is a big difference between the 2 of us...he is going on with his life and trying to make the best of it by developing new frienships and interests...
I, instead, do not have the energy for it and seem to be very discouraged by it all.

So in other words your a good human with feelings and empathy, sympathy and in pain; while he is an entitled, self absorbed, selfish, waste of space who is actually going to look back on this one day and CRINGE, while you have come to terms with your life, incorporated it and are walking around with a clear conscience and head held high because you have nothing to be ashamed of.

Time sweety, more than you hope for, but oh so necessary.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 08:59 PM
thank you
I will try to remember that time will heal me and that probably the more I am exposed to his irrational life the more I see his true colors
After all there is a reason why I ran into that lady earlier adn why she told me all about H. in some way I must feel the pain to the max in order to heal and get over him.
He would be a nightmare to be with right now anyway. I can only imagine that all he cares about is to train for the next race and look good in it. To be charming and lovable and come across as a super nice guy....who must have had such a b@tch of a wife...otherwise there is no explanation why such a nice guy like that decided to leave her..

Boy he can be such a liar and a charm boy!!!!!
blessing
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 09:25 PM
I am not sure I agree that you must feel pain to heal, but it certainly helps set up a negative feedback in your heart towards them.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/13/10 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by atena
in some way I must feel the pain to the max in order to heal and get over him

Atena, in order to heal, you have to stop feeling the pain. These triggers are NOT helping you heal, they are keeping you emotionally sick and worn down to the point of nervous exhaustion. All of these triggers are not good. I wish I hadn't sent those papers today and am rethinking a few things.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/14/10 05:16 PM
I know all the triggers are not good and then I go into mental messes!

I am even thinking that maybe my way of seeing things is wrong.
Please reassure me of the following (or tell me if i am wrong):
Any H would be delighted to spend time with W. He would not tell her that he wants to do what he pleases and have friends and be able to talk to other people, including other women. He would not tell her that he would like to make plans that do not include her. He would not be so obsessed with his physical shape and his masculinity...
Or is it that most men really want all of the above but do not hae the courage to ask or put it into practice...and the ones that do are then the ones who end up ending the M?
If I could see this situation under a different light maybe I would not be in so much pain. If i thought that what my H wants is pretty "normal" then he would not be so bad...
I don't know.....
blessing
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/14/10 05:51 PM
Atena,

Please seriously consider creating a life in a new location!

Between being in WH's realm for work and errands and the pain you are still triggered into......it is so much more full of angst than you need.

Is there any place away from there that appeals to you where you could find employement and a cozy, lovely nest? Someplace that perhaps you know a couple people from already who are not pals of WH?

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/14/10 06:16 PM
my carreer depends on spending at least another 2 years in the job where I am at. I am not in a competitive carreer. My position is usually the first one to be cut in a crisis and it is unfortunatly the case right now. So I actually have the chance to a promotion if I stay where I am at...while if I leave I will very likely find myself in a precarious situation if I am lucky to find a position at all
It is a true predicament because I totally understand the problem and do know (and unfortunately feel it on my skin) the impact of having to work in the same place and share many acquatainces and friends with H.
This is what makes it hard for me to be very dark in plan b...but also this is my H 2nd A and he did it in a pretty ugly and heartless way. I feel as if I have been raped and every time I have to hear about him or be in touch even thru the IM I feel totally in pain and devastated.
wehave a son in common and a home to sell. It will take a long time before I can say we will not need to contact eachother for common issues.
I am not convined taht other people in dark plan Bs who use an IM are immune from H contacting them. If so then I have a bigger issue thatn others...
blessings
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/14/10 06:42 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Any H would be delighted to spend time with W. He would not tell her that he wants to do what he pleases and have friends and be able to talk to other people, including other women. He would not tell her that he would like to make plans that do not include her. He would not be so obsessed with his physical shape and his masculinity...

Your husband was thoughtless and cruel. I would be hurt and outraged if my H had female "friends" and made plans that didn't include me. Especially knowing it upset me!!

You know what Dr Harley says, Atena??

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"Jealousy is a normal reaction to a threat to marriage. It's not a Love Buster."
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/14/10 06:44 PM
Atena, why can't you try and get a position back in the US??
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/14/10 06:46 PM
I will and that is my plan,but I need experience as head (blanck) right now I am assistant (blanck) it would not be a wise move it would basically be like shoting myself in the foot.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/14/10 06:55 PM
My H always saw my jelosy as a big love buster and lack of trust towards him. He went as far as saying that my jelousy was a self fulfilling profecy and that my fear of him having As was what actually caused him to have them. He said that it was part of a lesson for me to grow up...that at times life makes us confront our worst fears in order to wake us up.
Make he was right because this was a huge wake up call for me....

Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 05:57 PM
Hi all,
I had a conversation with a good friend and she said to me: I apologize for telling you this, but atena, you are really thick. How can you still have feelings for a man like your H...when god has shown you all the sign he could possibly manage to make you understand your H is just not worth one of your tears!
Folks...you know me now for a while....am I exceptionally thick!?
Blessings
Posted By: Mulan Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by atena
My H always saw my jelosy as a big love buster and lack of trust towards him. He went as far as saying that my jelousy was a self fulfilling profecy and that my fear of him having As was what actually caused him to have them. He said that it was part of a lesson for me to grow up...that at times life makes us confront our worst fears in order to wake us up.
Make he was right because this was a huge wake up call for me....

Blessing

Atena, do you know the meaning of the term "gaslighting"?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 07:16 PM
Melody uses it a lot, gaslighting, so I am familiar with it. At some point i wanted to get the exact meaning and I looked it up on the dictionary and did not find it...HOwerver I can easily guess the meaning as someone who sets you on fire with his disrespectuful behaviour...
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 07:21 PM
Gaslighting is a form of intimidation or psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim, making them doubt their own memory and perception.

Wiki article here
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 07:25 PM
Thank you littledoggy. Is the person doing it aware that he (H) is doing it? Is it a conscious thing from his part?
blessing
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 07:31 PM
Atena,

firstly just call me Lil - please smile

Secondly yes, they know they're doing it, ad I have heard some shocking examples of it being used right here on MB. Such as the WH who's BW walked in on 'the act' and insisted to the BW that she had been seeing things!

Sometimes its just saying things to make you doubt your feeling that things are not quite right.

At it's worse, it can make someone believe they are going insane
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 07:43 PM
ok Lil...thank you
I read the article you sent. I then went on to read the definition of a sociopath and yes, there are many elements that coincide with H behaviour.
One of the many therapist I have seen once told me that my H was very manipulative towards me and that he had me wrapped around his finger. She was very surprized at how good he was at figuring me out and taking advantage of me.
Also, H always maintained i had huge problems and fears that I needed to work out especially related to jelousy issues. This was also supported by a horrible M counselor we saw years ago.
But I do think mainly my H has a HUGE sense of entitlement that makes him believe he has the right to be happy at all costs. Once he acts for the sake of his own happiness he has no regretts, feels no guilt and is ready to lie. He said he had to lie to me beause he was afraid of me and my reactions so he had to do it to protect himself and our son.
He painted me like a monster.
To the point that, for years, I believed I was one. and somehow the label still sticks.
blessing
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 07:56 PM
There was a poster here a while's back (Verve) who has an interest in psychology and the like. Anyway she found some very interesting articles online somewhere which showed some correlation between an active wayward, and people with sociopathy, narcissistic, and other similar disorders.

Basically waywards are insane smile
Posted By: Mulan Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 08:03 PM
MB thread on gaslighting:

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=146375&Number=1954184#Post1954184
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 08:08 PM
According to Wikipedia the incidence of sociopathy is one % or less and we know that there are lots more WS than that so not all WS are sociopaths...and i know no one is saying this is the case.
Yet when I read:
Psychopathy (which is similar and at time used as Sociopahty)is a personality disorder characterized by an abnormal lack of empathy combined with strongly amoral conduct, masked by an ability to appear outwardly normal.

I can't help but say: yes this is my H.
It is AMAZING. He is able to do what he is doing and act absolutely normal. He is also extremely removed and distant and extremely intelligent.
He gaslighted a colegue at a meeting the other night. The collegue said that H was able to say the most mean things about him and at the same time keep a very calm, cold and distant behaviour.
He has his followers at work because of that. He is cold and manipulative, but very charming (good looks, good manners, will say anything you want to hear).
Folks, I think my H is in the 1%.
Thank you for informing me about this. I can see now how sick he is. From what I read there is no cure and the people affected rarely seek it because they do no think there is anything wrog with them.�If all I read is true, then he really has no capability to love or have feelings and if he does they only last a short time, he might not care at all about OW and might have been lying to her all along just to get sex and other favors from her...
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 08:19 PM
Also....he fits very well with the definition of passive aggressive..which is a lot more prevalent

Passive-aggressive behavior:

Ambiguity or speaking cryptically: a means of engendering a feeling of insecurity in others
Chronically being late and forgetting things: another way to exert control or to punish.
Fear of competition
Fear of dependency
Fear of intimacy as a means to act out anger: The passive aggressive often cannot trust. Because of this, they guard themselves against becoming intimately attached to someone.
Making chaotic situations
Making excuses for non-performance in work teams
Obstructionism
Sulking
Victimization response: instead of recognizing one's own weaknesses, tendency to blame others for own failures.

Mulan, thank you for the thread
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 08:46 PM
Sorry to keep posting like this...but I am thinking out loud
Now I understand what Melody meant about my H. He is so entitled (and gaslighting and maybe a sociopath) that for him to change his behaviour and understand the consequences of his actions is almost impossible....at least now. But I am afraid it is pretty much going to be permanetly that way.
Now I also understand what collegues tell me about him and how cold and mean he can be.
I now see my H with different eyes. He is sick and he is not willing to seek help. There is nothing I can do.
Blessing
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 08:53 PM
Dont apologise, it's your thread and provided you don't violate TOS, you can do what ever you want with it LOL
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/15/10 08:55 PM
Yes, you are right!

So...
thinking back at our 20 years M, I can see a pattern now. I was too blind before. I trusted too much. I would have never thought my H was this way.
boy oh boy
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/22/10 06:21 PM
Sorry! I posted on LLL's thread! Sorry LLL!!!!!!!!!


HELP PLease!

Fist of all I was driving and I saw OW driving her can with H sitting in the passenger seat (he has no licence here in the country where we live now) It was like a dagger in my heart.
I then went to visit a friend of mine, Mary, who just had a baby and whose H, Mike, works with me and my H. He used to be a good friend of my H but for a while, after the separation and the A, H did not talk to Mike.
Well Mary tells me that about a week ago my H came to her house and wanted to talk to Mike so H and Mike went for a beer and Mary said that when Mike came home Mike said that H talked a lot. Htold Mike that Mike was the only person he was going to confide in about the details of his separation from me.

Mike told Mary only this: Atena's H feels judged by everybody at work and wanted me to know his side of the story about the separation. However he told me to keep this confidential and I will not tell you anything otherwise I am sure you will tell Atena.
What do you all think? What game are Mike and H playing (if any?)
Is H trying to cover his a$$ by telling a bunch of [censored] to people as there is really no justification for the way he behaved...or is he finally feeling that OW is not enough and that he needs to have friends he can talk to..
or is he planing to move in with OW and wants to prepare the ground for it?
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/22/10 07:25 PM
bump
Posted By: Tabby1 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/22/10 07:39 PM
((((atena))))

Please, sweetie, can't you quit this job where you still see your WH? Honestly, Plan B can't work if you still see him and hear regularly about what he is up to. In answer to your question:
Quote
Is H trying to cover his a$$ by telling a bunch of [censored] to people as there is really no justification for the way he behaved...or is he finally feeling that OW is not enough and that he needs to have friends he can talk to..
or is he planing to move in with OW and wants to prepare the ground for it?

It doesn't really matter. Most likely it's bull-excrement as he's a wayward but it doesn't matter. Stay away from him. Ask people not to tell you about him. I know it's hard. We BS's have to go through withdrawal of our own. All these little reminders of our wayward feel really great at the moment but then they leave you totally drained and back at square one. Just like someone who hasn't smoked in a period of time - one puff and you have to go through withdrawal all over again. You are in Plan B - don't let him drain any more out of you.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/22/10 07:42 PM
is this a good sign...meaning H us getting out of his ice age indifference or it really means nothing?
blessings
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/22/10 08:01 PM
There are too many reasons why I can't change job.. The main one is it would be carreer suicide.
I will tell my friend not to talk about H any longer. I can see how true it is...we want to know and then we go right back to square 1. I now feel like I have to quit the drug all over again..and I am so drained of energy. I keep imagining what H wants, thinks or feels and it is so crazy....because he is a wayward and what he think today might be the contrary tomorrow.
However I have to say my H is very clever and cunning and very smart. He is also very reserved so to go and talk to someone about this very delicate issue he must have been pretty desperate for approval.

blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/22/10 08:22 PM
Is the fact that WH has only OW to rely on (as he has cut himself out from the world) going to make their A stronger? She is his only anchor, she drives him places, she keeps him company, she has sex with him etc....Does this make the A indistructable?
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/22/10 10:48 PM
Atena- Hun, this is NOT good for you at all. All of your posts are now filled with, "What is WH doing? What is he thinking? Will this make them stronger?" I think you need to get yourself a pickle jar and start putting some money in there. It is a good physical representation of what your thoughts are on. I couldn't believe that I did 75 LOONIES in ONE week. I almost fell over. It helps me see where I am in my recovery process. I couldn't even imagine what it would be like if I saw WH even once a week. It must drain you so much. I don't know how much longer you could do this without losing all of your LB$ for your WH. Then you would have NO chance of M R. You would still have your Personal R thanx to MB. It will just be harder.
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/22/10 11:05 PM
Other than wanting your WH back and to be a good guy with you.


What does Atena want from day to day life?

Who does Atena feel is her best friend (other than WH)?

What event does Atena want to go to?

Is Atena a cool chick or getting to be one?

Atena likes what new movies?

Is Atena going to work Friday and to hang out with friends Friday night?

Etc.

This the the task of Plan B. Learning to be who YOU really are. Who you were not being for whatever reason pre-B. Find yourself and create your life and whatver the future brings, YOU will be there. Not sure whom else but YOU will be there. You need to know that YOU are one cool chick. Yup. YOU.

Plan B POWER!
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 02:18 AM
Atena, I hope you will permit me to ramble here a bit. I am not sure I can adequately express the thoughts I want to convey.

Let me start by saying that in the past few weeks I have undergone quite a transformation. For half a century I was the classic example of the "common agnostic." However, since Easter of this year I have been hearing something I can only describe as the "calling of faith."

Yesterday I went to a luncheon with a neighbor man who has come into my life and brought with him a kind of ministry I have never known before. The speaker at the luncheon is a familiar man to many, but was previously unknown to me. Let's just say that for years he was the chaplain for a professional sports franchise.

This speaker's topic and points were as follows. Please understand that I am doing it a major disservice, as this is so rudimentary I'm almost embarrassed to try to repeat it. But it affected me greatly, and I wish to pass it on to you.

He challenged the audience with his topic:

HOW TO EVALUATE YOUR LIFE AND MINISTRY

The three steps or points to the above were as follows, with a bit of discussion on each:
  • WHAT IS YOUR MISSION/OBJECTIVE?
What do I want not only now, but at the end of my life?
  • PRIORITIES
How much am I willing to pay or suffer?
  • SCHEDULE
How much time will it take? Can I set/make the time?

The underlying message, as I heard it, is that if we don't start putting our lives into perspective, we are doomed to run in circles and accomplish nothing, no matter how much money, success or fame we achieve, it's all meaningless because we haven't given it a reason.

Okay, you're probably asking yourself, "what is his point?" The point I'm (feebly) trying to make is that I see you going day through day, swimming in the same circle each day. You can't move ahead (even though you say you can't risk career suicide) because you haven't taken the time to evaluate your life.

Other people can't "make" you happy or sad. Unless you give them the power to do so.

Other people can't "fix" you. Only you can do that (or, if you're a person of faith, only God can).

It starts by evaluating your life. What is your mission? What do you want not only now, but at the end of your life? Can you put together your priorities and schedule the things you need to accomplish your goals?

It's true we only have one day at a time. But if we don't look into the future, we truly have nowhere to go. We become stuck.

You're stuck, atena.

A great fear I had when my wife torpedoed my life and my future was that I too, would get stuck. Thanks to a lot of loving people and their selfless help, I've been able to avoid getting stuck. And I realize my life is not dependent on how someone else behaves.

Are you stuck, atena?
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 02:25 AM
WOW Fred. Am I ever glad you don't hang out solely on the D board. That was GREAT.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 07:07 AM
Thank you all for your posts.
I know I could go out with friends and do things etc...and I am invited to a lot of things. I tried that for 3 months...went out, talked etc...Then it all felt empty and meaningless.

I am too in a spiritual path. I have been reading a lot of books of Eckhart Tolle and I am now working on the Sedona Method of release. One of the main points of this methods is releasing the feelings that keep is stuck in a situation. So Fred, yes I am truly stuck and you saw it very well.

I know it too well too. And I am working on it daily but it will take me some practice to become unstuck and it does not help seeing or hearing about H.
I do have goals and one of them is to finish my graduate degree, apply for the job that will allow me to use my new degree and then travel (I have a lot of free time) by bike and enjoy the outdoors which I am fortunate to have a lot of access to. I also teach in the summers but I plan, starting next year, to spend the summers in the States and work there.

This is my two year plan. After that I might consider permanently relocating to the States.
I can't have my H rule my life, He should not be determining where I live and what I can or can't do. That would mean giving the guy a lot of power and I do not want to...the Sedona Method and the MB forum are helping me go thru all the bumps and I know I will became a loving person at the end of this...

As far as LB$ (I guess those are love bank deposits?) I truly believe that my M is done. My H will never forgive me exposing him to the world and ruining his reputation at work, with his son and all our friends. His love for me is totally gone and he now has OW who meets his needs quite well. As it turns out his needs are very basic: approval, admiration, sex and recreational companionship. All of which she provides with no problem.

As far as it goes for me, I would be a fool to take him back. Were he to come back it would certainly not be out of love but out of comfort or need. Then he would cheat on me again at the first oportunity.
Thank you for all your support! I appreciate all the time you put in for me. I hope it will pay off soon.
blessings
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 11:46 AM
I was thinking of stuckness again and again and it is really a bad feeling. HOwever, in our situation, as BS is it feasable to think that we can get over a H or a W in a matter of months? I mean you can socialize and distract yourself with as many movies and friends as you want (and I tried that) but till you are able to let go and release your feelings totally all you are doing is just sweeping them under the carpet.

That is my experience with it. You can distract the mind, but it will always take you back to where it wants unless you release it.

The reality is that one still cares about the WS no matter how montrous he or she has acted.
If we do not release the negativity and the pain from the betrayal it will just keep coming back and it will impact future relationships.
At times "just be still" is the answer and if that brings up the pain it is best to accept it rather than cover it up with a thousand activities.
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 11:59 AM
While you make some valid points about how you can not heal until you let go, what we are trying to tell you is that seeing your WH on a somewhat regular basis actually keeps you stuck. That is because you see him and your love bank opens again and again. I can tell you that because the few times that I have slipped and looked at my WH and when I did my Operation: Olive Branch, it threw me. At first, I felt really good from getting a glimpse of him. Afterwards, I crashed. I guess it was like a little "hit" of my drug.

The time in between these close encounters of the wayward kind, have felt kind of good. I have had my bad days and my bad moments, but overall I feel better in between. That is what my hope is for you. I hope you can find the peace the in between times bring.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 12:11 PM
Thank you Scotland. You are all very patient with me...and I am losing patient with myself..so I can only imagine how stubborn I might sound.
However, I am not clear about the Love Bank. So tell me if this is correct:
My H has zero deposits and when he sees me his deposits go below zero

I still have deposits, cuz I love him...but when I see him they become less and less?

I am not sure the above is true?? Is this a MB principle?
blessing
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 12:19 PM
Your love bank is deposited to by him.

His love bank is deposited to by you.

Your "love" is the company of the bank. (Like: MB Credit Union)

You can not increase the account with your name on it - he has to.
Vice versa.

Only if there is a Negative balance (no cash flow) for a long time does the bank (your love) go out of buisness. frown

IMHO
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 12:33 PM
Originally Posted by atena
There are too many reasons why I can't change job.. The main one is it would be carreer suicide.

Career suicide or emotional and spiritual suicide? You won't have that career much longer if you have a nervous breakdown and that is exactly where you are headed, friend. What will be your "career" when you are in a white straight jacket?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 12:39 PM
I really can't leave my job. I know you guys do not believe me. But here where I live now it is not easy to find stuff> I would if I could. I truly hope not to end up in a mad house. I think so far I managed better than most people. But I do need a spot where to vent....
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 12:58 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I truly hope not to end up in a mad house. I think so far I managed better than most people. But I do need a spot where to vent....

Atena, this is a death of a thousand cuts. A long slow death that has been going on for years. Yes, you are managing, but what are you managing? A slow death..

A better solution is to stop dying and start living. You can't do that if you see him every day. You are dying...slowly...
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 01:03 PM
That is scary!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by atena
That is scary!

I AGREE!!!
Posted By: markos Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 03:23 PM
Originally Posted by atena
But here where I live now it is not easy to find stuff>

Please move. frown
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 05:55 PM
I don't know but I see people on this board who live in the same town as WS and share custody so they run into WS from time to time. They also happen to see him or her at their kids sporting events or school events.
Not many people on this board have relocated. Relocating is very difficult at a time when your life is already shattered and the only security you have is your job and the community around your job. I have a great network of friends and family here. Were I to move I would find myself broke and utterly alone...with no support.
blessing
Posted By: ToBeContinued Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 07:09 PM
Originally Posted by atena
However, in our situation, as BS is it feasable to think that we can get over a H or a W in a matter of months? I mean you can socialize and distract yourself with as many movies and friends as you want (and I tried that) but till you are able to let go and release your feelings totally all you are doing is just sweeping them under the carpet.

That is my experience with it. You can distract the mind, but it will always take you back to where it wants unless you release it.

The reality is that one still cares about the WS no matter how montrous he or she has acted.

Atena, the fact of the matter is there are no timeframes by which we should operate, and no magic algebraic formulas that say once you do 'X' (TIME) and mix in some 'Y' (DISTRACTIONS), you end up with 'Z' ("GETTING OVER" WS). We are all DIFFERENT, and your relationship is UNIQUE -- and different than me and Skatt's (or any other two people, for that matter.) What takes one person eight days to accomplish can take someone else eight months. Doesn't make either person better or worse than the other one.....

If you're still "stuck", that doesn't mean you are broken or that you're not doing something correctly. (Sidenote: great post, Fred-O...) If you still care, that just means you're human. You have no more ability to dictate how to STOP CARING any more than you can control the degree to which YOU CARE. You just do.

I care, too. Maybe that's why I've trudged along my path as long as I have. There's a lot I don't know. I'm no expert on life. You know what I DO know, though? Some day I won't care. And until I reach that day when the realization that I don't care is as tangible as the sheer comfort in having a vacancy on my ring finger, I neither worry about when that day will be, nor what I should do to accelerate the process of attaining indifference.

I think part of the process of RELEASING is just being accepting of the fact that it will happen eventually. Don't get sucked into the when's and the why's. Just make your peace with knowing that day will come. And just leave it at that.

TB


Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 07:21 PM
Atena, I have been checking in on your postings.

I am in the same situation. I work with my XWH and the OW.

As you, I do not have too many options to move at this time.

1) DD16 - I made a promise to her that she can finish HS here (she is a junior). It took much hard work, patience and time and now she is doing well in school again.

2) I have 30+ career at my company and need to pay into my retirement which is crucial the last 5 years of work to build it up.

Have experienced many of the same struggles of seeing XH at work. I now work directly across the street and see his car every morning now. I do see OW on ocassion also which is more of a challenge (not to jump across the aisle and choke the life out of her -- ok ok it is only visual in my brain).

How do I handle it. It is difficult but recently it has gotten easier, or I am stronger.

I don't agree with your assessment of by exposing it wrecked your chances with WH. When I did not expose it almost put me over the edge. I struggled every day. XH and OW banked on that I would keep their sleazy A to myself. They were wrong.

Now when someone asks (amazingly some people don't know after almost 2 years after this A started and D at end of year); I say I am sorry but XH left our family for his direct report PP and he lives with her now. That is why he was demoted last year. This is not what I wanted and I was committed to my M but XH has decided to settle for much less. clap

Jaws drop, eyes bugs out and sometimes direct honesty is too much. I walk away with my head held high.

I do as much Plan B as you do but you never know when that wayward will pop up.

Like you I do love the "unloveable". I have come to the realization that until he implodes with OW that he will stay in the fog. Some days I think I must be nuts but I know that God has a plan for me and right now this is where I belong.

Isolation is not good. I did the same for months and kept turning down most invitations. Preferred my own company and DD16. Went to movies by myself because I would cry through most of them.

Now I have great support at work and some real friends that I might not have because of this. I am blessed with some MB friends on this board that have hit me with 2x4s twoxfour and the next minute gave me hugs. hug

You need to listen to these vets and find out what you enjoy. Work on yourself. When I started it was strictly "to win" XH back. Now I do it for myself. I go to the gym 3/4 times a week faithfully, grew out my hair, changed my look. If anything it confuses XWH when I see him (by the way 40 pounds heavier, bloated and aged 10 years).

Yes, there are days I just don't want to deal. I actually hear co-workers calling him some days about work issues. Walk out in the aisle and just breathe.

You can do this -- one day at a time. pray

Sorry for the length.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 07:35 PM
Thank you for your support BT. It helps to know that we Aare all different in our timing. It has been 7 months for me and I expect miracles.
I am telling myself that it will take all the time it needs. I am allowing my self to feel whatever and I am giving myself permission to feel stuck, resistant and desperate...and then I let it go and put it in the hands of god.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 07:48 PM
Thank you for you post Hope. It really helped...I got a lot of 2x4 here today...and rightfully so, but in truth I am like you. I have to stay in this job if I want to move on to a better carreer. I am in a good position now, can't tell you details for privacy reasons but it will make me very marketable if I stay on the job I have for 2 more academic years.
Fortunately I only work 180 per year, the rest is time off. And during this time I do not have to see WH. I can plan to do other things or even find a part time job.
I have a good support group but spend the rest of my free time studing. I am taking a bunch of credits and preparing a demanding class I will be teaching in the summer.
In September I will not have graduate credits to take any longer and have all the intention to live it up and go out with friends and develop activities I enjoy.
When I get glimpses of H now it is already a little diffrent than 7 months ago. I am a lot more cold and feel much less. However the only time I saw him with OW was yesterday when they were driving together and that hurt. That was the first time I have ever seen them together. So no wonder I felt so strongly about it.
Quote
You can do this -- one day at a time.
Thank you hope, that helped
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 07:48 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Not many people on this board have relocated. Relocating is very difficult at a time when your life is already shattered and the only security you have is your job and the community around your job. I have a great network of friends and family here. Were I to move I would find myself broke and utterly alone...with no support.

Most of the ppl here in plan B don't see their spouse, and if they do see their spouse, they need to change that. Otherwise, they will live as you are, Atena, in a death of a thousand cuts where you die a little more each and every day.

Lets say every single person on this forum BREAKS PLAN B and sees their WS every day, does that make it wise? No, it does not. It means the purpose of Plan B - to separate you from the triggering pain - is DEFEATED. The purpose of Plan B has been DEFEATED in your case, Atena.

And to those of you who are giving her cover and encouraging her to continue living this life of suicide, mad
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
Atena, I have been checking in on your postings.

I am in the same situation. I work with my XWH and the OW.

As you, I do not have too many options to move at this time.

This is NOT PLAN B, so please don't call it that. And please don't mislead ppl into thinking this is acceptable. This is how women end up having nervous breakdowns and having WEEKLY and DAILY meltdowns characterized by uncontrollable sobbing JAGS.

Dr Harley devised Plan B because so many of his clients had nervous breakdowns and suffered years of post traumatic stress disorder. We know of people who have hung themselves. To play games with this plan is irresponsible.

There is a HUGE difference in the mental outlook of someone who is really in Plan B and someone who is in a pretend Plan B. The ones who really do Plan B have a great deal of PEACE. The ones who play games with it suffer terribly, as Atena has here.

The suffering she endures is UNBELIEVABLE. So please think of that when you tell her what you think she wants to hear.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
And to those of you who are giving her cover and encouraging her to continue living this life of suicide, (Editing) mad

If you think we are "encouraging" Atena to continue to live in this environment, you are wrong. Shared with her my own situation and would not wish this on anyone. (Editing)
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:09 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by hope3343
Atena, I have been checking in on your postings.

I am in the same situation. I work with my XWH and the OW.

As you, I do not have too many options to move at this time.

This is NOT PLAN B, so please don't call it that. And please don't mislead ppl into thinking this is acceptable. This is how women end up having nervous breakdowns and having WEEKLY and DAILY meltdowns characterized by uncontrollable sobbing JAGS.

Dr Harley devised Plan B because so many of his clients had nervous breakdowns and suffered years of post traumatic stress disorder. We know of people who have hung themselves. To play games with this plan is irresponsible.

There is a HUGE difference in the mental outlook of someone who is really in Plan B and someone who is in a pretend Plan B. The ones who really do Plan B have a great deal of PEACE. The ones who play games with it suffer terribly, as Atena has here.

The suffering she endures is UNBELIEVABLE. So please think of that when you tell her what you think she wants to hear.

Again, I am not encouraging atena to stay in this situation -- I am sharing my own experience. Your right the suffering is unbelievable. I am not telling her what she wants to hear.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:11 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
If you think we are "encouraging" Atena to continue to live in this environment, you are wrong. Shared with her my own situation and would not wish this on anyone. I will pray for you.

Yes, you DID encourage her! And I wonder if you have been there when she is in the depths of despair? Are you going to help her as this gets WORSE and worse and worse?

I hope you also pray for ATENA. Her life has been made a living HELL because of her husband. Can you perhaps help me get her out of that nightmare?

Can I have some help in helping my friend out of hell, please?
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by hope3343
If you think we are "encouraging" Atena to continue to live in this environment, you are wrong. Shared with her my own situation and would not wish this on anyone. I will pray for you.

Yes, you DID encourage her! And I wonder if you have been there when she is in the depths of despair? Are you going to help her as this gets WORSE and worse and worse?

I hope you also pray for ATENA. Her life has been made a living HELL because of her husband. Can you perhaps help me get her out of that nightmare?

Can I have some help in helping my friend out of hell, please?

Again, I did not encourage her because I shared my own personal experience. I did not tell her to stay but did encourage her to work on herself, told her to get out and build friendships.

She could quit her job tomorrow and move but till then she is faced with this. Many MBers have been my life line through this and some our my dear friends. would be happy to help Atena anytime as others on his board including yourself.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:27 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
[

She could quit her job tomorrow and move but till then she is faced with this. Many MBers have been my life line through this and some our my dear friends. would be happy to help Atena anytime as others on his board including yourself.

What you did was encourage her to continue to break Plan B. Never once did you encourage her to stop it, rather you told her it was ok. You handed a drowning person an ANVIL. Thanks!

We have been doing this for YEARS on this board. Plan B means NO CONTACT, not a little contact and not seeing them at work every day. That AIN'T Plan B.

What you are advocating here is NOT MARRIAGE BUILDERS, not Plan B; it is your own irresponsible, unqualified opinion and it does not work. It has dragged Atena through hell.

We need to stick to Marriage Builders, not find ways to cut corners that cause obvious suffering to posters. Atena has suffered greatly because she has cut this corner, so we already know that cutting corners doesn't work. My goal is to help her THRIVE, not to help her suffer more.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:34 PM


I guess the name of this plan is Plan S for PLAN SUFFER, huh? How can I help my friends suffer MORE? When they are slowly killing themselves should I hand them a pistol or a knife? hmmmm, decisions, decisions... think

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:36 PM
I still have to thank Hope for her post because life is not perfect and plan Bs are not perfect. We all have to deal with the reality of the economic crisis, of job scarsity and of not being 20 any longer and being drained of energy.
My H is horrible but he is no worse than the ones I read about on this board.
I have gone thru a lot with him but I have been a doormat for so long...
I now feel that with the possibility of a better job and with my graduate degree under my belt, and with 180 days off a year I can keep the job I have and manage the best I can.
Melody, I know you care a lot about me and that you heard my desperation many times.
I know why I am desperate, it is because I still hope to hold my H in my arms again one day. I have to let go of that once and for good. Once I let him go I will be free.
I just puzzles me how I can still feel for a man like him. It just drives me crazy becasue there is absolutely no logic to it.
I would utterly HATE any other individual who would have treated me half as bad as H did. Yet, I still love H. And would take him back. SCARY but true.
There is somethng majorly wrong with me...
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by hope3343
[

She could quit her job tomorrow and move but till then she is faced with this. Many MBers have been my life line through this and some our my dear friends. would be happy to help Atena anytime as others on his board including yourself.

Oh no. She could quit her job tomorrow JUST AS SHE SHOULD IN PLAN B, and she would feel 100% better in about 3 weeks.

You don't seem to understand that for some reason. That is how Plan B works, hope. We have been doing this for YEARS on this board. Plan B means NO CONTACT, not a little contact and not seeing them at work every day. That AIN'T Plan B.

What you are advocating here is NOT MARRIAGE BUILDERS, not Plan B; it is your own irresponsible, unqualified opinion and it does not work. It has dragged Atena through hell.

We need to stick to Marriage Builders, not find ways to cut corners that cause obvious suffering to posters. Atena has suffered greatly because she has cut this corner, so we already know that cutting corners doesn't work. My goal is to help her THRIVE, not to help her suffer more.


I do understand that Atena has that option and yes she will feel better when she moves. I also read in almost every post Atena has wrote she says she will not move right now. My posting to her is not irresponsible. I understand this is a MB forum and my post is not cutting corners for her. Everyone here wants to see her thrive as all the others on this board.

(editing)
Posted By: AnnaBelleRose Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:40 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I just puzzles me how I can still feel for a man like him. It just drives me crazy becasue there is absolutely no logic to it.
I would utterly HATE any other individual who would have treated me half as bad as H did. Yet, I still love H. And would take him back. SCARY but true.
There is somethng majorly wrong with me...
blessing

To be fair, I haven't read your whole thread - I will tonite - but those words resonate with me. Most people think we're completely insane for wanting a man who cheats on us. But we're not. This board helps remind me I'm not crazy. There is nothing wrong with you. You have a lot of love and want to be loved in return by that man. What's wrong with that?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:43 PM
Atena, this is not about the economy, you haven't even tried to find another job. And neither has Hope. This is about wanting to take an easier, softer route and enduring horrific suffering in the bargain. The reason you are in such a state this far away from the onset of plan B is only because you see him so often at work. I know that and I also know the hell you have to endure because of it.

The truth is that you cannot detach like this. You cannot ever experience any of the PEACE that comes from Plan B, Atena.

Atena, wouldn't it be horrible if every person who goes into plan B sees this thread and all the corner cutting and decides that they, too, IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF MARRIAGE BUILDERS COUNSEL, can get away with a half assed Plan B? They will see this and not know about your suffering because they will see all the rationalizations and the justifications.

We will be handing a drowning person an ANVIL when they desperately need a life raft.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
I do understand that Atena has that option and yes she will feel better when she moves. I also read in almost every post Atena has wrote she says she will not move right now. My posting to her is not irresponsible. I understand this is a MB forum and my post is not cutting corners for her. Everyone here wants to see her thrive as all the others on this board.

Yes, staying in contact in Plan B is not only cutting corners, it is not even Plan B. It is your own plan that has nothing to do with Marriage Builders. Perhaps Plan S for suffering.

And I don't believe you want to see her "thrive" at all. What you said only encouraqes her to stay in a quasi Plan B in which YOU KNOW SHE IS SUFFERING.

(Editing)
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I still have to thank Hope for her post because life is not perfect and plan Bs are not perfect. We all have to deal with the reality of the economic crisis, of job scarsity and of not being 20 any longer and being drained of energy.
My H is horrible but he is no worse than the ones I read about on this board.
I have gone thru a lot with him but I have been a doormat for so long...
I now feel that with the possibility of a better job and with my graduate degree under my belt, and with 180 days off a year I can keep the job I have and manage the best I can.
Melody, I know you care a lot about me and that you heard my desperation many times.
I know why I am desperate, it is because I still hope to hold my H in my arms again one day. I have to let go of that once and for good. Once I let him go I will be free.
I just puzzles me how I can still feel for a man like him. It just drives me crazy becasue there is absolutely no logic to it.
I would utterly HATE any other individual who would have treated me half as bad as H did. Yet, I still love H. And would take him back. SCARY but true.
There is somethng majorly wrong with me...
blessing

God made us all different but perfect for each of us. Nothing is wrong with you because you love. Blessings and hug hug hug
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:51 PM
You are totally right. I am not doing plan B correctly, it is a half baked version. But Melody, you can't deny that many others break plan B on this board for many reasons. They decide to answer a text message from WS or they decide to let WS in their home or they decide to contact WS because they miss him/her.
We do not want to give the impression that the way I do plan B is the right way. It is not the right way at all. I will start looking for another job but in the meantime I have to make do with what I have and I do need a salary.
People who come to this board for advice also want to see realistic goals. I can't say that I will find a job tomorrow because I would be lying...
I can start looking, that's true.
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[quote=hope3343]


(Editing)

(Editing)
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I can start looking, that's true.
blessing

Do you promise? laugh
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
[quote=MelodyLane][quote=hope3343]

(Editing)

Please do not talk to me again. Thank you.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 08:57 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[quote=hope3343][quote=MelodyLane][quote=hope3343]
(Editing)

Whatever. I will pray for you.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by atena
You are totally right. I am not doing plan B correctly, it is a half baked version. But Melody, you can't deny that many others break plan B on this board for many reasons. They decide to answer a text message from WS or they decide to let WS in their home or they decide to contact WS because they miss him/her.
We do not want to give the impression that the way I do plan B is the right way. It is not the right way at all. I will start looking for another job but in the meantime I have to make do with what I have and I do need a salary.
People who come to this board for advice also want to see realistic goals. I can't say that I will find a job tomorrow because I would be lying...
I can start looking, that's true.
blessing

Atena, have you checked to see if you can transfer your masters program to another college and have them accept your credits? Don't know how specialized your field of expertise is but colleges are getting more transfer students because of people moving because of the economy and have made it easier to accomodate these students.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 09:11 PM
my program is totally on line. I will be done soon with it and will need that degree to seek another job.
I will start looking, yes. I will because I know that will help my situation immensely,but I also know that I will be fooling myself if I thought that someone will hand me the same position I might be getting in the fall on a gold platter.
But you never know...if god does not want me where I am now...god will find that gold platter.
The only thing is...if I move away would I still have a chance to R my M?
Out of sight will be totally out of mind for my H. I actually think he is pretty much over me 1000%....

Hope, are you still hoping to get back with your H even now that you are D? You say he looks bad. Why? Is he unhappy with OW?
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 09:24 PM
Originally Posted by atena
my program is totally on line. I will be done soon with it and will need that degree to seek another job.
I will start looking, yes. I will because I know that will help my situation immensely,but I also know that I will be fooling myself if I thought that someone will hand me the same position I might be getting in the fall on a gold platter.
But you never know...if god does not want me where I am now...god will find that gold platter.

It is a huge plus that your program is online. That is a major hurdle that you do not have to deal with. You might surprise yourself what type of job you can find when you look. God does have a plan for each of us.

Originally Posted by atena
The only thing is...if I move away would I still have a chance to R my M?
Out of sight will be totally out of mind for my H. I actually think he is pretty much over me 1000%....

Hope, are you still hoping to get back with your H even now that you are D? You say he looks bad. Why? Is he unhappy with OW?
blessing

As long as WH is with OW he will stay in that fog till they will statistically implode. It won't matter if you live next door to him or live in Siberia.

He is "over you" because that is the only way he can convince himself in his wayward mind that he is doing the right thing.

Right now my H is an alien. He even walks different (think it is the weight). On top of the addiction to OW he is drinking (was dry 15 years). Don't want that man. If XH emerges out of the fog the front light is still on. It would have to be a MB M at that point or none at all.

I read somewhere on this board that the OW wanted what the BS had from their H -- a good manager, successful career, good husband and father. When they started their A -- the OW got none of those things. She got what she was -- a liar and cheat.

take care
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 09:37 PM
Quote
I read somewhere on this board that the OW wanted what the BS had from their H -- a good manager, successful career, good husband and father. When they started their A -- the OW got none of those things. She got what she was -- a liar and cheat.
Yep, well said!!!

Quote
He is "over you" because that is the only way he can convince himself in his wayward mind that he is doing the right thing.
I never thought of it this way...I always thought that he was over me because he is head over hill in love with her.

blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 09:56 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Quote
]He is "over you" because that is the only way he can convince himself in his wayward mind that he is doing the right thing.
I never thought of it this way...I always thought that he was over me because he is head over hill in love with her.

blessing

Anger covers guilt, Entitlement covers pain caused to the family and so on. We are standing in the way of their perfect life and true love. Once we are removed from that equation then the only place to put their blame eventually is on each other.

These relationships are built on a foundation of sand and their house of cards is built on lies and deception. One day it will crumble. We can't make it happen and only when we truly detach it will be their own demise.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 10:02 PM
Originally Posted by atena
my program is totally on line. I will be done soon with it and will need that degree to seek another job.
I will start looking, yes. I will because I know that will help my situation immensely,but I also know that I will be fooling myself if I thought that someone will hand me the same position I might be getting in the fall on a gold platter.
But you never know...if god does not want me where I am now...god will find that gold platter.
The only thing is...if I move away would I still have a chance to R my M?
Out of sight will be totally out of mind for my H. I actually think he is pretty much over me 1000%....

Well, how has being in his sight helped you? All it has done is cripple you emotionally. He may well be over you; but the important thing is that you are over him as he is.

You might get a much better position, Atena. You won't know unless you look. And even if you got something that paid less, it would be worth it because you would not have to SUFFER from seeing your husband every day. The farther away you can get, the better.

Think how much more wonderful your life would be if you could get away from his daily presence?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 10:04 PM
It would be for sure. I would be another person. I would still have my friends and the support. I will start looking as soon as I have my degree, but I have already checked some postings. I guess more will open up in June and July.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 10:11 PM
Originally Posted by atena
It would be for sure. I would be another person. I would still have my friends and the support. I will start looking as soon as I have my degree, but I have already checked some postings. I guess more will open up in June and July.
blessing


hug
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/23/10 10:17 PM

Quote
Anger covers guilt, Entitlement covers pain caused to the family and so on. We are standing in the way of their perfect life and true love. Once we are removed from that equation then the only place to put their blame eventually is on each other.

So right! however they seem to be able to blame us for a long time. Boy, I am seen as a witch by him...the exposure thing really got to him. He really thought I was going to be a doormat forever. He will have lots of years to blame me for that.

Quote
These relationships are built on a foundation of sand and their house of cards is built on lies and deception. One day it will crumble. We can't make it happen and only when we truly detach it will be their own demise.
That' right. And I guess they can almost sense that. I have been told by many people that once they let go and not cared anymore, very often WS tried to R, even the ones that were horrible and far gone in the fog. Strange indeed.
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/24/10 02:57 AM
Originally Posted by atena
Quote
Anger covers guilt, Entitlement covers pain caused to the family and so on. We are standing in the way of their perfect life and true love. Once we are removed from that equation then the only place to put their blame eventually is on each other.

So right! however they seem to be able to blame us for a long time. Boy, I am seen as a witch by him...the exposure thing really got to him. He really thought I was going to be a doormat forever. He will have lots of years to blame me for that.
They are waywards and that is what they do. There is no accountability that is why it is so important to take care of yourself. I used to look for traces of my old H but it was like looking into a cesspool. They will rewrite the whole M and turn themselves into the "victim". It is very typical. Look at some of the successful M after A. The WS won't blame you -- in the end he will thank you


Quote
These relationships are built on a foundation of sand and their house of cards is built on lies and deception. One day it will crumble. We can't make it happen and only when we truly detach it will be their own demise.
That' right. And I guess they can almost sense that. I have been told by many people that once they let go and not cared anymore, very often WS tried to R, even the ones that were horrible and far gone in the fog. Strange indeed.
blessing
We cannot change them. When they are waywards we don't really know them anymore. One of the parts of their fantasy is the BS and how they still want the WS. It could make it into a competition with the OP. Once the WS sees that you are living your life without them it gives them pause and for the OP they begin to wonder why we gave up so easy taking away what they think is their prize mentality
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/26/10 03:57 AM
bump for atena
Posted By: Tabby1 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/26/10 01:17 PM
Atena, you are still looking at this from the wrong side:
Originally Posted by atena
As far as LB$ (I guess those are love bank deposits?) I truly believe that my M is done. My H will never forgive me exposing him to the world and ruining his reputation at work, with his son and all our friends. His love for me is totally gone and he now has OW who meets his needs quite well. As it turns out his needs are very basic: approval, admiration, sex and recreational companionship. All of which she provides with no problem.
Stop speculating on WH, his love bank, his A and OW. What happens there, happens. The only control you have is over what you do and choose to let affect you. His LB is irrelevent right now. Only yours matters. You write about your love for him but that WILL drain because every time you see or think about him, he's making withdrawals - whether he knows it or not. You are basically throwing it at him. Stop doing this - it hurts you and it doesn't benefit him in the slightest. Stop it now!!!

Now from the perspective of the wayward - this truly doesn't matter but I remember needing to know this as much as you do so I'll explain it as I see it. Life as a wayward must be pretty simple. Everything can be easily categorized as good and bad. Everything good is because of the OP. Everything bad is because of the BS. It doesn't matter how rediculous or unconnected it is - a wayward will blame their BS for anything and everything as long as they are around to do it. Do you realize that I was singlehandedly responsible for a blown transmission, an overdue cable bill, a thunderstorm, a bad haircut and a couple of strikeouts at bat among other things? As long as I was even remotely in the picture, WXH could manage to twist everything around so that it was all my fault. This makes life pretty sweet, doncha think, when you have one single cause of everything wrong under the sun! The fact is, as long as you maintain a presence in your WH's life, you will serve this purpose for him. If he stubbed his toe this morning, you can bet it was your fault.

The truth is, Atena, that in the state your WH is currently in (active long term A with OW), there is absolutely nothing you CAN do to fill his LB. Nothing. You can only withdraw - again without even your knowledge or intent. Because nobody goes through a single day in life without some adversity or another. Heck, if OW breaks a nail it's probably your fault too. The only way to avoid this is to get out of its path. When they try to point the finger at you, don't be there. Sooner or later even waywards start to realize how rediculous they are and begin to take a look at reality. It's when they get to that point that they start to evaluate the truth about themselves and each other. But they won't ever do that as long as you are available to point blame at. Never. Trust me, I've lived this!!!

You worry that relocation might just bring WH and OW closer together. I'll argue that NOT relocating simply binds them together. Nothing holds people together than being able to unite against a cause. Honey, that cause right now is you. You didn't choose it but there it is. If you want any chance at all at ever reconciling, you have to get OUT of this position as soon as possible. I totally understand the career ramification, but there is nothing stopping you from looking right now. You claim you have lots of free time - fill it up with this very important project. Otherwise there will be nothing left of you to take on your new career.

((((HUGS))))
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/26/10 01:45 PM
Thank you Tabby for taking the time to write this excellent post. I reflected upon it and what surprizes me is that I am the glue that keeps them together.
I can't imagine I have such an important role but thinking about it, I can see how H blames me for the aftermath of the worldwide exposure I did and for other difficulties he might have.
However, I am not in any verbal contact with H nor I see him face to face. When I do, I get glimpses of him and he gets glimpses of me. But we are never together in a room where we have to stare at eachother and pretend we do not know eachother.
How long can he blame me for? If OW acts like a b$tch, does he blame me for it? And if he is depressed and feels guilty about what he has done...does he blame me.
Someone who behaves like this has no hope...

Posted By: JustFigureditout Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/26/10 01:51 PM
Actually, this is completely 'normal' in that people want to diffuse responsibility, or in your husband's case 'deflect or project' responsibility elsewhere.

YOU are the cause of his pain, in his eyes, because had you just allowed the affair and everything else to occur, then he would be 'happy'. Had YOU not exposed, had YOU not... well been an injured wife, then he would have been happy.

This, unfortunately is deep within the massive layers of fog which can occur. Don't take it upon yourself, because outside of the fog, it is clear of where the problem truly lies. However, the fog keeps him from seeing it. He isn't lost... unfortunately, he is JUST WHERE he is supposed to be, when he is having an affair. It sucks... but he is right where he is expected to be at this point.

IMO
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/26/10 02:17 PM
Quote
This, unfortunately is deep within the massive layers of fog which can occur. Don't take it upon yourself, because outside of the fog, it is clear of where the problem truly lies. However, the fog keeps him from seeing it. He isn't lost... unfortunately, he is JUST WHERE he is supposed to be, when he is having an affair. It sucks... but he is right where he is expected to be at this point.

AND

Quote
Honey, that cause right now is you. You didn't choose it but there it is. If you want any chance at all at ever reconciling, you have to get OUT of this position as soon as possible.

And this is what I am not longer sure about. I think that once the pressure to wanting to R is out I will feel a lot better. I will keep in plan B but only for the sake of my personal R which is also commendable and highly recommended here at MB.
Just the idea of telling myself :"Atena, this man is not worth years of your life, he is stil;l so thick in the fog it will take him centuries to come out...you are now deciding to heal yourself and not to R the M. Even if H would wants to one day, you will not"
Just telling myself that, I am sure, will make me feel like a load has lifter from my chest.
I only have to think it over a little more and then decide if I want to call it quits.
blessing
Posted By: JustFigureditout Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/26/10 02:39 PM
atena...

I know what you are feeling and what you are thinking... at least I believe I do. I go through it in a similar, although with different circumstances, fashion.

Today, I am having a 'reconciliation moment' where I want things to change. However, MOST of the time, I am unfogged myself, and can see the situation for what it really is. I believe it is just how we are... as things move on. Plan B protects our love to some degree. This can be good or bad, depending upon circumstances. By protecting our love, it maintains a sense of 'hope' that ensures that a future (should it come about0 reconciliation can occur. However, at the same time, it partially 'stunts' us, so to speak and I know that is not a popular thought here on MB. It stunts us in that our 'love' is maintained in a position in which there might be NO reasonable possibility for reconciliation. Yes, we need to heal ourselves, and be the best, regardless of whether our marriage is rekindled or dies. However, Plan B sometimes makes that harder than if you were merely 'leaving everything behind' and working on your future.

To me, it is harder with the possibility of reconciliation, than with NO possibility. What makes it harder for me, ATM is that I don't even know what I want... and any given day can change how/what I feel dramatically. I think this is just par for the course... something which is part of the 'experience' of these types of issues. I try not to put too much weight on any given feeling on any given day, because I know that tomorrow, it is likely to be different.

I have no real advice for you... not that you haven't already received countless times, I am sure. Just realize that you are where you should be at this time. And he is where he is... at this time.
Posted By: Tabby1 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/26/10 02:55 PM
It is not about personal recovery vs. marital recovery. You aren't picking one over the other. Not at all. Right now, you are broken and hurting. You can't do anything at all until you heal. Especially not recover a marriage. Not while you are still so badly injured.

Recovery is recovery. Those who recover their marriages first recover themselves. This is true whether they had to go all the way to Plan B, or if the A was broken up immediately upon discovery. The BS is broken and has to heal before the marriage can be recovered. Why do you think it takes them so long? Even those with very remorseful and supportive WS's take years to recover. One doesn't heal from this type of pain overnight even under the best of circumstance.

You can't even begin to heal when you are still being assaulted by those 1000 cuts. The best you can do is fend them off, but that just makes you tired and even more vulnerable. This is why a dark Plan B is so critical. It allows you to begin the healing process on your own. It doesn't speed it up, but at least it doesn't set you back. Then down the road, if the fog ever clears and your WH wants to return you will have the strength to take on the challenge of marital recovery - if you still want it. And more likely than not, the "personally recovered" you will be more attractive to him than the "broken you".

You aren't chosing marital over personal recovery - you are striving for marital recovery THROUGH personal recovery. You can't have the former without the latter.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/26/10 05:09 PM
Tabby thank you again for your great posts.
you are right, I can't heal anything if I do not heal myself first.
But I do believe that there are ways to make my R faster.
One is releasing the negative and hurt feelings that A and WH created and that are blocking me.
I have been reading a lot in these past months and are now fully into releasing techniques and meditations to quiet the minds and let go of all the hurt.
Takes a lot of discipline, but I am ready for it and started the process 10 days ago.
Many things are going to surface now but as I work on them and release them they will be gone forever.
I also have to let go of wanting my H back. I set that as a goal and I am going to release on it and clean up all the garbage that still tells me I want him as a H.
It will take months, but much less time than therapy or other methods. It is called the Sedona Method and I recommend it.
blessing
Posted By: ToBeContinued Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/26/10 05:32 PM
Originally Posted by Tabby1
You aren't chosing marital over personal recovery - you are striving for marital recovery THROUGH personal recovery. You can't have the former without the latter.

Well said, Tabby. A true nugget of wisdom.....

TB

Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/26/10 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by Tabby1
You aren't chosing marital over personal recovery - you are striving for marital recovery THROUGH personal recovery. You can't have the former without the latter.



[/quote]

Tabby, I am saving this one. It is a pearl, it should go under memorable quotes by Pepperband.

Atena, glad you are posting.

I started Yoga over a year ago and I find it quiets the soul and mind.

Rediscover something you were passionate about and jump back in.

Rearrange a room, paint, throw out all your old clothes, change your style, hair but because you want too.

Post on this board. It is a lifeline. You are not in this alone.



Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/29/10 03:42 PM
Atena, just checking in to see how you are doing.

Blessings.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/30/10 12:50 PM
Thank you for checking on me.
I resolved NOT to save my M and use Plan B as a personal R.
So in the remote chance WH ever wants to R my answer will be NO.
I am done with him. I went thru all the past and all the stuff he did to me, my son and the lies, deceit, scheming and filth he put me thru. I think it is enough. I cried and released it and keep doing it every day till all my feelings for him are gone.
It is amazing how fast this has been working. In a matter of a week I already feel much less love for him and much more detachment. I am close to turning my heart into stone for him. This is how it feels now when I think of him and OW together. It used to bother me. Now I feel close to nothing.
I found that this was the best solution for me. It worked almost like magic. Once I made the decision to let go of the fantasy of having him back, a lot of pressure came off me.
Blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/30/10 01:13 PM
Im right there with you , atena...I dont know if its possible for us to get rid of ALL the feelings...but we will be okay.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/30/10 01:24 PM
Actually if you release on it for 2 hours a day like I have been doing for the past week it works pretty fast. If you consider that I used to spend my WHOLE day pining for H and imagining him with OW...compared to all this waste of time..2 hours a day are a bargain.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/30/10 01:29 PM
Yeah, I used to cry all day....I would take my son to school crying, cry while he was in school and pick him up for school crying....Those days are over, thank God for that.

I have a hard time crying now since I have been on my new AD's (except for a poster here makin me cry, nother story) But I am not sure if that is a good thing or not. You might be onto sumthin with the crying everyday thing.

I cant wait for the day I can see him with OW and it doesnt faze me....I wonder if that day ever comes?
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/30/10 03:05 PM
Atena, glad you checked in.

It is a good support system here. There were many times when I did not post for a few days then someone would check in on me or give me a call. The people on this board are all going through the same crisis and they get it unlike others who care about you but have never experienced this.

You sound much stronger than previous posts and working on through this.

For many personal recovery is not saving your M but saving yourself.

What are you doing for yourself that you enjoy? Have you explored any of those options that people here have suggested.

Blessings and have a great weekend.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/30/10 04:33 PM
I think when stuff like this happens to a person it is a sign for spiritual awakening. I have to say I am fortunate because this experience, even if very painful, has opened a new life and a new depth for me.
I have to say that I do enjoy time alone. I live in a beautiful spot surrounded by nature and I have the good company of great books.
I have a job where I interact with people 9 hours a day and I have good friends at work adn sometimes they come to visit me on week ends.
I excercise, eat faily well and learn new things every day.
I think my life is much richer than when I was with H. I no longer have to worry about him befriending OW and galighting me nor I have to worry about him lying and cheating.
I feel fre and do not give a hoot about what he thinks or wants.
I am trying to apply that so that the only opinion that counts is mine.
I think that without wanting control and approval from people we can be truly free.
blessing
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/30/10 10:12 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I think when stuff like this happens to a person it is a sign for spiritual awakening.
How interesting you should say this, atena. As a member of A.A. for a number of years, I felt I had my spiritual awakening. Yet this utter demolition of my dreams and reality has resulted in me attending church, getting a Bible and attending Bible study.

Me -- a practicing agnostic for decades! What astounds me even more is that I'm actually enjoying this new-found awareness. But then, A.A.'s 11th Step says

Quote
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
So maybe this is the logical next step...
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/01/10 04:52 AM
How do you practice being an agnostic? confused I thought they weren't of any faith.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/01/10 02:50 PM
The "faith" of an agnostic is in denying the possibility of the existence of God. Make no mistake, agnostics and atheists are every bit as rabid about their "faith" as believers. They just believe differently.

Atheists believe in NoGod. Agnostics believe in MaybeGod.

Atheists don't believe in God because he doesn't work the way they want Him to. Agnostics simply want God to work the way they want Him to.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/01/10 03:52 PM
Just the fact that your heart beats without you having to do anything is a sign of god's presence. So the agnostic or atheist whose heart beats like mine...how do they explain that?
I have always wondered.
Blessing
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/01/10 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Just the fact that your heart beats without you having to do anything is a sign of god's presence. So the agnostic or atheist whose heart beats like mine...how do they explain that?
I have always wondered.
Blessing
They can't, really. They'll try to couch it in terms of "an accident of evolution" of some such, but it gets very circular when you ask them to account for the "randomness" of the "accident."
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/01/10 06:15 PM
Well Fred, I am glad we are both on a spiritual path. It is very peaceful I am very content on my own. I meditate, do spiritual excercises and stay in contact with nature. I can't say I am unhappy any longer. I have a lot to be thankful for and have my integrity intact. Not bad.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/03/10 01:51 PM
Just an update: my WH has a 99% chance of getting a big promotion at work. They just posted the job putting the exact credentials he has, basically a posting made to measure for him that only he could fill.
So, I guess so much for exposure at work. I swear, everybody knows...also the details of who OW is and how he went about with the A.
I guess the big wigs do not care, or maybe, since he always kept quiet about he whole thing and never talked about it or made bad comments about me, at the end they valued him more.
Yuk!...
...blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/03/10 01:55 PM
Of course, I am sure he spinned it to make you the bad guy...WS's are experts at that atena...Its sad that most workplaces accept this, but such as life, I guess...Dont worry about him, he will get hit by karma, someday.....
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/03/10 01:58 PM
He is a passive aggressive. Says nothing but by doing that makes you look bad.
Yes he will get what he deserves and with this job he is forced to have contact with a lot of people daily and most of these people are major pains in the a$$ including people who know about the A and do not approve of it.
We'll see. Life is fair at the end.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/03/10 02:00 PM
Yes, life is fair in the end....especially with God...We will be okay, atena. They are living it up now...without thinking of consequences, but the consequences will come.
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/03/10 03:04 PM
Coming in late here to comment on agnostics and atheists.

Many of them are good, moral and decent people who respect that human life is a miracle(something we don't understand but is intricate and amazing) and whatever the source of it...to be respected. Atheists just don't call that source God and agnostics aren't sure whether to call it God or give it another label....yk?

Posted By: ChaiLover Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/03/10 06:20 PM
Atena,

Glad to see that you are doing better. Personal recovery does come in time, but there will still be down days. I was OK for months and recently went through some depression after I found out that XWH and Miss Mullet were in town. It still hurts.

Just stick to your course and things will keep getting better.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/05/10 12:35 PM
Today I had a meeting with my boss about a few things and at the end of the meeting she asked me how I was doing and asked a few details about my separation. I gave her the details. Then she wanted to know how I found out about the A and I told her that.

She then concluded that my H is a great actor like many of the polititians we well know he is able to do nasty things and wake up the next day as if nothing happened. She said nothing shows from his face. No emotion.
Well, he is going to get that promotion and she is the one who is giving it to him but I guess she needed to know why I do not speak to him because to most people it looks like he is the polite, respectable teacher who never says anything and acts nice and distant.....so now she knows.

I also told her this was his second A in the span of 4 years....I did not tell her that the first one was with another teacher at work (she is gone now), that would have made her hair stand up....!

My boss is a woman whose H is big polititian from another country who cheated on her and is currently living with OW and he has kids with OW. HOwever they pretend to still be married and get along for both his and her carreer and finances. She is like my H, nothing shows from her face...so I did not learn this piece of gossip from her but from a former employee of her who knew all the details of her H's A!
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/05/10 01:01 PM
My WH is the same way...he is charismatic, everybody loves him, except his family, of course...he could always talk his way out of speeding tickets...one time he had no insurance sticker, no inspections sticker and was speeding and got a warning by his sweet talking...He has just got that "it" and that big gorgeous smile, to hide all the evil that lurks beneath.

Sorry, I know a lot of people like President Obama....but me and my WH dont...I call my WH Obama when I text him and he thinks its funny...but to me he is just like him...I think Obama had so much charisma and that he got to be president...He sweet talked his way into office with his big beautiful smile.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/05/10 01:03 PM
My WH actually told me that even though his whole family thinks he is scum, that he finds comfort in that the people he works with think he is a great guy...What a great thing to take comfort in...even Ted Bundy fooled people. People that knew him thought he was a great guy too.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/10/10 05:38 PM
hi all,
I talked to my son a few minutes ago (he is in college in the states) and he told me that it has been more than 2 months since he talked to his dad on the phone and that his dad's emails are very short.
I could not help it but comment "wow, 2 months!"
Son at that point became defensive saying that he was too busy to call his dad....
I told son that it up to his dad to check on him not vice versa.
Then son said he would like to come over here during the summer.
I do not think it is a good idea for son to be exposed to the filth of WH A and I told son tht his dad is still seeing OW and that it is a pretty squallid situation to witness. I then asked him if his dad ever mentioned to him his relationship with OW and son said, no, never.
WHY is WH this way???
He does not even lok after his own interest, he is totally cut off from everything.
Is this normal?
I have been in plan B for 8 months now and WH has never ever tried to contact me for anything except thru the IM for the sale of the house and taxes.
Is he an average WS?????
I hate it when he neglets our son!
blessing
Posted By: ChaiLover Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/10/10 05:45 PM
My WH was exactly the same. He pretty much Plan B's me. Walked away and never looked back at all.

Men for whatever reason seem to have an easier time walking away from EVERYTHING.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/10/10 05:47 PM
I hate that your DS has to go thru this, but from reading on here it seems pretty typical, unfortunately.....My WH does see DS, but my DS is only 8....I swear if he was older my WH wouldnt even bother, but who knows....and me, well I dont think WH would care if he ever saw or talked to me again...IDK how they do this but it seems as if they just cut that part of their brain out or somethin, ya know?

Maybe it helps them forget us, when they dont see or talk to us.....That way they dont hafta deal with looking at the people that they almost completely destroyed. You know, kinda like they are doin the NC with their families, I guess.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/10/10 05:48 PM
Originally Posted by ChaiLover
My WH was exactly the same. He pretty much Plan B's me. Walked away and never looked back at all.

Men for whatever reason seem to have an easier time walking away from EVERYTHING.


Yes, this seems to be true... frown
Posted By: MargieLoll Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/10/10 05:54 PM
I know my H could/might/would just walk and not look back. We're not at that point yet but...geeze just knowing that hurts and sucks.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/10/10 05:58 PM
Yeah, I really dont understand how some people walk away and never look back....I cant even get over WH, and I have been doing my best to do just that....

Maybe it is easier when you have already found someone new?...Or when you know that that person still loves you and wants you back? IDK.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/10/10 05:58 PM
Hi Chai and Stillhere,
I see we are in a very similar situation as far as WH's personality goes. Chai...after 36 years he left and never ever tried to contact you??? That is incredible..really really bad.
And Stillhere, for you it has now been 2 years and again no trying to contact you...? Nothing?
OK, I see that I made the right decision choosing personal R and not to R the M. At this point I think even if I had decided to R the M my WH would have never contacted me again anyway.
At this point....when they are really so ready to cut all ties and go, is it really just about OW. Because I am starting to suspect that might be more than just that....
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/10/10 06:05 PM
Yeah, my WH does contact me, but only about DS and stupid stuff...No relationship stuff....The reason why I think it is about OP is, why did they wait until they found OP to decide they didnt want us anymore? I think they are just sooooo wrapped up and busy in their new lives they dont even think about us..

And I think the longer the A is the more and more that when it blows up, well they have more time to forget about us....So if My WH and OW broke up last year, maybe after a while he would have regretted his mistake.....

Now the longer it goes on, I dont think he will ever give me a second thought again, even when and if they break up...IDK, none of us have new beaus, maybe then they will have a little regret. But I dont think any of us are lookin for that right now. In a way they kinda know that we are still alone, so they think they could come back if they really wanted to? who knows.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/10/10 06:13 PM
I think a lot has to do with the idea of being a bachelor again especially for our WH who did not move in with OW. They have it ideal and get to be the single guy again.
I guess the idea for them to come back to us and to back to the ball and chain of the M (as they saw it) is just not an option.
OW is just very admiring and needy. I can't help but think that at some point that bubble will have to burst but I guess the power of the A is just too strong and the fantasy goes on.
There is no longer secrecy and after a while the sex must become pretty routine....I really do not know anymore.
Has your H the intention to file for D...or do you?
You said that after 2 years you are still thinking about him. DO you foresee dating at some point? Have you ever had anybody interested in you in these 2 years?
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/10/10 07:32 PM
I will eventually D him and move on...as of right now it seems its just not gonna be him that does it, maybe he will suprise me, IDK....I am really not ready to date yet, I still feel married, I know that is stupid....I have had people interested, but I just have no desire to date, IDK why. And I wouldnt date until I am divorced anyway, so when I am ready to date, I will file.

Right now my DS is 8 and I am just kind of wrapped up with him, which my therapist says I will regret because I need my own life....but I dont think I will regret spending all my time with DS. I am lonely when DS is with WH....I do go out with my friends and stuff, but they are all married and sometimes I just feel like the loser of the bunch.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/11/10 04:12 AM
Hi Atena, checking in and glad to see you are posting.

I am almost 2 years since D day. My D was final end of the year. I too have no desire to date. I feel as if I am a married single.

I have some good friends that I make plans with going to dinner or the movies. I have a couple of guys that seem interested in dating me but I give them no encouragement. One works with XH which would be an interesting concept.

Feel I have nothing left emotionally right now. DD16 has been through enough. I don't want to have her deal with a new man in her mother's life. She is finally doing well and is happy again.

For now this is enough.

Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/11/10 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
Hi Atena, checking in and glad to see you are posting.

I am almost 2 years since D day. My D was final end of the year. I too have no desire to date. I feel as if I am a married single.

I have some good friends that I make plans with going to dinner or the movies. I have a couple of guys that seem interested in dating me but I give them no encouragement. One works with XH which would be an interesting concept.

Feel I have nothing left emotionally right now. DD16 has been through enough. I don't want to have her deal with a new man in her mother's life. She is finally doing well and is happy again.

For now this is enough.


Yeah, I am with ya hope.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/11/10 01:24 PM
I was just thinking if it might be better for our son if H and I just talked on a very business like basis. My son is 19 and is in college and he never really sees us now except for holidays.
In a way I would just like to have a talk with my H and ask him what he is envisioning for our son. If he has totally checked out as a father...in other words..where does he stand..If I could convince H to meet with a good counselor who could mediate between us and make our relationship as parents more bearable.
I cannot stand putting my son thru this: your father and I do not speak and so who knows....
I have no interest in R the M so for me the issue of losing love for my H is really not one because, in fact, I hope to lose all of it as fast as possible.
I am not sure if I am doing my son a favor by keeping up a wall with my H. (????)
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/11/10 02:04 PM
Yeah, thats a tough one...Me and WH text about our DS....but sometimes other stuff is snuck in there and it upsets me. Just remember you didnt do this HE did.....If not talking to WH is gonna keep you mentally in a better state then it is not worth it, ya know?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/12/10 12:28 PM
I saw H again today on the stairs. We looked at eachother and he smiled at me. I was laughing with a collegue and continued doing what I was doing as if he did not exist.
The funny thing is that I felt almost nothing. In the past I would have felt sick all day. But I am fine. I released my emotions about it and now they are gone.
I think that in a few months of this I will be able to face him and talk to him about our son with my chin high...totally uneffected. My goal is to achieve imperturbability and not give a hoot about him, his toughts, his goals in life and who he sleeps with. Not care about what he did to me and not make a victim identity for myself out of having been betrayed.

I want a new life, free of the past and what H has done to me.
Scr*w him and how messed up he is. I do not want to allow him to mess me up or to control me any longer. I am working on getting my power back to where it belongs. TO ME>
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/12/10 01:27 PM
It feel so good when you are getting to this point, doesnt it?...My hope for so long was for me and WH to get back together, now it is just to feel indifference toward my WH. IDK, but have you seen your WH with OP?...See, I havent seen them together yet, as a matter of fact, I havent seen OW at all...Thats the thing I am scared about now, I dont know if I am ready for that yet...or if I will ever be.

But I guess, one day at a time, thats all we can do. At least every day we are getting better, ya know?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/12/10 01:36 PM
Yes I have seen them together in her car, she was driving as he does not have a licence. It hurt me. But that was 3 weeks ago and I had not started my release technique that I have been doing daily for at least one hour. Of course I cried but the releasing made me get rid of all the pent up anger and hurt.
I cannot tell you what my reaction will be should I see him with her. My goal is to feel good and not have this situation hurt me any further.
I do not want to continue not speaking to H for the rest of my life. I want, at some point, to be able to talk to him with detachment and not give a damn about him. That is my goal.
I can't ignore that he is the father of my son and will be that forever. I cannot hurt myself by having to constatly battle feelings for my H and find myself 10 years from now still harboring resentement and not talking to him because it would create avoc in my life.
I will not give him that power. Not now that I decided that my M is over and I am ON.
Blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/12/10 01:47 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Yes I have seen them together in her car, she was driving as he does not have a licence. It hurt me. But that was 3 weeks ago and I had not started my release technique that I have been doing daily for at least one hour. Of course I cried but the releasing made me get rid of all the pent up anger and hurt.
I cannot tell you what my reaction will be should I see him with her. My goal is to feel good and not have this situation hurt me any further.
I do not want to continue not speaking to H for the rest of my life. I want, at some point, to be able to talk to him with detachment and not give a damn about him. That is my goal.
I can't ignore that he is the father of my son and will be that forever. I cannot hurt myself by having to constatly battle feelings for my H and find myself 10 years from now still harboring resentement and not talking to him because it would create avoc in my life.
I will not give him that power. Not now that I decided that my M is over and I am ON.
Blessing

[Linked Image from freesmileys.org]
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/12/10 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I can't ignore that he is the father of my son and will be that forever.

Can I ask WHY you can't ignore him for life? Isn't it best to ignore things that cause you trauma and grief?

Quote
I cannot hurt myself by having to constatly battle feelings for my H and find myself 10 years from now still harboring resentement and not talking to him because it would create avoc in my life.

I think it is unrealistic to believe you can ever not have feelings for him, unless you get a lobotomy. Feelings just ARE. You could bury them, but that is not a solution. It only leads to depression. Exposing yourself to reminders of traumatic situations will always trigger you to some degree. Dr Harley mentions in numerous places this is why he does not dredge up the past wiht his clients: its only result is to bring pain from the past into the present.

I learned this with my XH and it has been 10 years now. I have no wish or need to be "friends" with someone who treated me so despicably. I want to avoid such a person for life. We don't have good memories, we have NIGHTMARES, and why would I want to relive nightmares? There is absolutely no reason whatsoever. My life is so much better not being reminded of what he did to me.


Quote
I will not give him that power.

Being around him does him that power. Staying away removes that power.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/12/10 02:04 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by atena
I can't ignore that he is the father of my son and will be that forever.

Can I ask WHY you can't ignore him for life? Isn't it best to ignore things that cause you trauma and grief?

Quote
I cannot hurt myself by having to constatly battle feelings for my H and find myself 10 years from now still harboring resentement and not talking to him because it would create avoc in my life.

I think it is unrealistic to believe you can ever not have feelings for him, unless you get a lobotomy. Feelings just ARE. You could bury them, but that is not a solution. It only leads to depression. Exposing yourself to reminders of traumatic situations will always trigger you to some degree. Dr Harley mentions in numerous places this is why he does not dredge up the past wiht his clients: its only result is to bring pain from the past into the present.

I learned this with my XH and it has been 10 years now. I have no wish or need to be "friends" with someone who treated me so despicably. I want to avoid such a person for life. We don't have good memories, we have NIGHTMARES, and why would I want to relive nightmares? There is absolutely no reason whatsoever. My life is so much better not being reminded of what he did to me.


Quote
I will not give him that power.

Being around him does him that power. Staying away removes that power.


Yeah, I guess atena and myself also needed a smack back into reality. Thanks ML, you are right, as usual. sigh Those feeling will never go away completely, will they. grumble
Posted By: Tabby1 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/12/10 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I was just thinking if it might be better for our son if H and I just talked on a very business like basis. My son is 19 and is in college and he never really sees us now except for holidays.
In a way I would just like to have a talk with my H and ask him what he is envisioning for our son. If he has totally checked out as a father...in other words..where does he stand..If I could convince H to meet with a good counselor who could mediate between us and make our relationship as parents more bearable.
I cannot stand putting my son thru this: your father and I do not speak and so who knows....
I have no interest in R the M so for me the issue of losing love for my H is really not one because, in fact, I hope to lose all of it as fast as possible.
I am not sure if I am doing my son a favor by keeping up a wall with my H. (????)
blessing
Your son is 19 years old. He's an adult. He has his own life now. He may come home for a while after college but not to stay. Your work is is done - it's time for him to to spread his wings and make a life for himself. Now, do you want to risk taking all that away from him because you are a wreck because you are continually beat down by your WH? If you don't keep up that wall, that's exactly what you will do! In fact, your son will actually blame himself for it!

My son was one month shy of 19 on D-day and also off at college. The first thing he did was come home and then he wanted to quit school so he could work to support me. Sweet gesture, but I didn't spend 18 years raising him so he could turn around and crawl back up in the womb!!!! The product of good parenting is a productive, well adjusted adult ready to take on the challenges of the world and prepare it for the next generation. Would I have done him any favours if I prevented that in the final stages when it was about to be complete????

Your son, at 19, is perfectly capable of maintaining his own relationship with his father without your assistance or interefance. Or not. He's old enough to make that choice. So is your WH. It's no longer up to you. There's no custody and no visitation schedule. Just adults here. If your son needs anything at all from you, it is the respect of one adult to another. Don't let adultery prevent or delay this most important milestone of his life!
Posted By: mymissy Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/12/10 03:43 PM
I feel sad reading much of this; I still continue to hold out hope that the A will end, the alien will vacate from WH body, OW will shrivel up and go away, and that WH will come begging for forgiveness. Hmmmm....fantasy I guess.

I feel like many of you, would it be easier to date, but then again I am not ready for that. Besides then I would be having an A. I have found that living alone is much like being married; he was always so busy that I seemed to always be waiting for him to spend time with me. Now I feel like I just always waiting.

WH has not attempted any contact for almost 3 weeks now. I know that is probably a good thing, it just doesn't feel that way.

Dstep daughter20 and son20 home from college this week, WH continues to push them further away with his BS and lies. I try to remain a stable part of their lives.

They are also adults and have decided to stay at school for the summer, they don't want to deal with the BS at home. I feel sad for them that they have to choose like that; but am also grateful they are adults and can make that choice.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/12/10 03:46 PM
Mymissy, I feel like that the affair ending and WS wanting to come back will happen...unfortunately it might happen after too much time has passed for us and we have already decided that we cannot open that wound back up, It will just be too late for us.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/12/10 04:07 PM
Atena, I agree totally with Abby.
My DD16 has no R with her father as of now. It is one year since she has seen him and he lives in the same town.

When all of this happened she was very angry and her grades, sports everything was crashing in. I brought her to a IC.

This wise woman sat me down and said "the purpose of DD coming here is not for her to have a R with her father but for her to be happy with her decisins that she makes about her father. DD16 was taught well by her father to be honest, have integrity and values. She is now living by these principles even though he has not."

I backed off and now DD is doing well with school again, is happy, has a BF who treats her with respect and is happy.

She blocked her phone so XH cannot call her. We don't speak about him unless she brings up his name. She is a good kid and I want her to stay this way.

She is in her own Plan B -- totally dark. This is her choice and for her it is the correct one.

You need to stand back and let your S19 decide what kind of R he wants with his father. I know you don't want him to get hurt and he might but let it be his decision.

It is a tough road and we can only work on ourselves. Blessings
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/12/10 04:58 PM
Melody, I agree with you that I do not have to seek my WH company nor his friendship. I could never do that.
All I am saying is that I can already see that feeling towards him are fading quickly to the point that I am not influenced by his presence. That said, I am certainly not planning to spend any time with him. My plan is to avoid him at all cost.
However, since I started this release technique I saw that I am not my feelings, that feelings are just like passing clouds. Pent up energy that can be released.
I also noticed that if I avoid being "my story" meaning identifying myself as a BS and instead see myself as much more than that,...I feel more empowered and do not give a damn about WH and what he did tome.
I will not forget it, but I will not let it rule me.
Regarding my son, you are all right. He needs to have the relationship with his dad that he chooses. I have been interfering too much by telling him to stay away from WH and OW and not come over for the summer. I want to protect him, but I am wrong doing that.
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/13/10 12:06 PM
Quote
Your son is 19 years old. He's an adult. He has his own life now. He may come home for a while after college but not to stay. Your work is is done - it's time for him to to spread his wings and make a life for himself.
Thank you Tabby, but i do not agree with this and with the people who posted along the same lines.
This is the exact way my WH is thinking...and this is what he used when he announced to me he wanted to separate back in July 2008 (when he was already in the A but denied it).
He said that now our son was almost ready to move out and be in college and it was a good time for us to split since our son WILL NOT be needing us to be together any longer, that he is an independent kid (which my H always encouraged...just to get him out of his air he sent when my son was stillin HS he sent him on vacation 3 times with his best friend against my will...)
Sorry, but I do not support this kind of talk. Kids always need their parents to be together.
blessing
Posted By: Tabby1 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/13/10 01:19 PM
While I agree that kids do need their parents to be together, regardless of their age, your 19 year old is still ready to be treated as an adult. Like I said, he may come home and stay for a while, but not permanently unless something happens to prevent him from completing this final milestone. Of course with today's boomerang generation, that happens all the time regardless of the marital status of the parents. But if you look closely, in every case the adult child was denied critical skills, usually in independence, to make that final step into the real world. If you have ever met someone in their 30's still living with their parents, you can see it immediately.

This was my biggest fear for my son when this all happened to me - because he immediately wanted to come home. He felt he was being noble and doing the right thing, but in the end it would have been far more harmful to him. This is not to say he didn't suffer, nor was his life unscarred by the adultery. In fact, I'm pretty certain that his decision to marry young and rush the wedding (only a 6 month engagement) was strongly influenced by his father's adultery. I'm convinced that they though if they wait until marriage for sex that their marriage would be able to avoid this fate (her parents are also divorced). By rushing the marriage, they could have sex and still abide by this rationale. Six months is a much longer time for the young than for the old. Fortunately, my DIL as a lovely young woman with a good head on her shoulders. But I am still concerned about the level of commitment they made with their youth and inexperience in the world. As we've seen again and again on this site, it doesn't make a difference if you waited until marriage or not, nor does religion or any other attribute make a difference. Adultery is a disease that can affect anyone, regardless of age, gender, race, religion, sexual orientation or any other demographic division you can think of.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/13/10 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Quote
Your son is 19 years old. He's an adult. He has his own life now. He may come home for a while after college but not to stay. Your work is is done - it's time for him to to spread his wings and make a life for himself.
Thank you Tabby, but i do not agree with this and with the people who posted along the same lines.
This is the exact way my WH is thinking...and this is what he used when he announced to me he wanted to separate back in July 2008 (when he was already in the A but denied it).
He said that now our son was almost ready to move out and be in college and it was a good time for us to split since our son WILL NOT be needing us to be together any longer, that he is an independent kid (which my H always encouraged...just to get him out of his air he sent when my son was stillin HS he sent him on vacation 3 times with his best friend against my will...)
Sorry, but I do not support this kind of talk. Kids always need their parents to be together.
blessing

Hi Atena, I don't think that was the intent of earlier postings.
We want our kids to grow up and be happy, independent and stand on their own. That is not being disputed. What I tried to express is that you cannot influence or interfere with your son's R with his father. There are days I worry that DD16 is "missing out" not having her father in her life but when I think of the drinking, bloated and selif entitled man he has become I think God is protecting her from seeing him in this condtion.

I do agree that kids want their parents together no matter what. This is what the BS want also but it is not our decision and we can only protect ourselves right now.

Blessings
Posted By: markos Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/13/10 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I was just thinking if it might be better for our son if H and I just talked on a very business like basis. My son is 19 and is in college and he never really sees us now except for holidays.
In a way I would just like to have a talk with my H and ask him what he is envisioning for our son. If he has totally checked out as a father...in other words..where does he stand..If I could convince H to meet with a good counselor who could mediate between us and make our relationship as parents more bearable.
I cannot stand putting my son thru this: your father and I do not speak and so who knows....
I have no interest in R the M so for me the issue of losing love for my H is really not one because, in fact, I hope to lose all of it as fast as possible.
I am not sure if I am doing my son a favor by keeping up a wall with my H. (????)
blessing

If your son is 19, I can't see why you and your husband need to confer about his future any more. Your son is a grown man and should be making his own decisions. He can seek your input and your husband's input when he wants it, and weigh each according to his own value scale, and make his own decision.

Aren't you in Plan B, or was I confused?
Posted By: markos Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/13/10 08:31 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I have been interfering too much by telling him to stay away from WH and OW and not come over for the summer. I want to protect him, but I am wrong doing that.
Blessing

I've got more confusion: if you are staying away from WH, then how come your son has to stay away from you in order to stay away from WH?
Posted By: markos Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/13/10 08:36 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Quote
Your son is 19 years old. He's an adult. He has his own life now. He may come home for a while after college but not to stay. Your work is is done - it's time for him to to spread his wings and make a life for himself.
Thank you Tabby, but i do not agree with this and with the people who posted along the same lines.
This is the exact way my WH is thinking...and this is what he used when he announced to me he wanted to separate back in July 2008 (when he was already in the A but denied it).
He said that now our son was almost ready to move out and be in college and it was a good time for us to split since our son WILL NOT be needing us to be together any longer, that he is an independent kid (which my H always encouraged...just to get him out of his air he sent when my son was stillin HS he sent him on vacation 3 times with his best friend against my will...)
Sorry, but I do not support this kind of talk. Kids always need their parents to be together.
blessing

I don't think you understand.

First of all, the best way you can get yourself and your husband back together is by following a real plan B: staying apart. You could do that for your son.

Second of all, your son is an adult and needs to make his own decisions, whether you believe it or not. Just because your husband used it to justify his perverted idea of ending your marriage does not mean that it is not true. Nobody here thinks that way.

I am in my thirties, and it would harm me immensely for my father to be in contact with my insane wayward mother. Immeasurably. Like hope's daughter, the best thing for me has been to have no contact with my mother. For twenty years. I would go insane if my father tried to meddle in my adult life in that way and pressure me to have a relationship with this damaging woman. He can allow her to destroy him if he wishes, but it would not be fair to drag me into it.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/14/10 01:13 PM
You know what I have realized atena, that I have been communicating with WH about DS, against Plan B.....I have just completely given up any reconciliation with WH, even if he came back {not) I just could never trust him, he has done to much to me...

Anyway, this communicating has actually made me disgusted with him....the more I communicate with him, the more I dont like anything about him anymore and maybe thats a good thing...I am not necessarily agreeing with you communicating with him, if you have any hope left for you M, I am saying dont do it....you may end up hating him....JMHO
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/14/10 01:25 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I was just thinking if it might be better for our son if H and I just talked on a very business like basis. My son is 19 and is in college and he never really sees us now except for holidays.

Atena, have you lost your mind? Even seeing your H at work sends you into the ozone and keeps you triggered and devastated. It is ridiculous to think there is any benefit to anyone for you to be in contact. Your son can still speak to both of you whenever he wants and that is all that is necessary.

There is absolutely nothing you could say to your H that would make anything better for your son. I have not spoken to my XH for 10 years and it has not affected my son ONE BIT. And he was 17 when we divorced.

Your son is a grown man now and he can well deal with parents who are separated.
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/14/10 04:21 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by atena
I was just thinking if it might be better for our son if H and I just talked on a very business like basis. My son is 19 and is in college and he never really sees us now except for holidays.

Atena, have you lost your mind? Even seeing your H at work sends you into the ozone and keeps you triggered and devastated. It is ridiculous to think there is any benefit to anyone for you to be in contact. Your son can still speak to both of you whenever he wants and that is all that is necessary.

There is absolutely nothing you could say to your H that would make anything better for your son. I have not spoken to my XH for 10 years and it has not affected my son ONE BIT. And he was 17 when we divorced.

Your son is a grown man now and he can well deal with parents who are separated.

This is true
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/16/10 01:27 PM
I know I will not be able to talk to H now nor be ok seeing him on a daily basis.
However I am conviced that all the frustration and all the difficulty I am having is because of the story I keep telling myself about him...such as: what a jerk he is and was, what he did to me, how could he....etc..
These stories keep me trapped in feelings I do not want. I do not want to have those poison feelings in me.
With time I want to achieve a state in which I no longer care what he did to me. As I am much more than just a BS.
I know I am not ready for it now. But I am certainly working on it. I want to be able to forgive and be above this pathetic
soap opera he staged.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/16/10 02:07 PM
Originally Posted by atena
With time I want to achieve a state in which I no longer care what he did to me. As I am much more than just a BS.
I know I am not ready for it now. But I am certainly working on it. I want to be able to forgive and be above this pathetic
soap opera he staged.
blessing

Atena, what you are describing is an exercise in mental masturbation. Your bad feelings about your husband are a natural, healthy reaction to an abuser. He abused you for years so this is your emotions warning you to stay away. And they are right!

The reason you have a poisonous narrative in your head is because your husband *IS* poisonous. That is reality. Changing the narrative will not change the reality.

The only solution I see for you is to a) accept reality b) accept that your attitude towards your husband is a natural, sane reaction to a person who has abused and harmed you and c) stay the hell away from him.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 11:41 AM
Hi all,
I have been off MB for a while and have been trying to get my H out of my head completely and it is working very well. I seldom think of him now.
However, my friends, I need your advice on this one.,,
I rarely open Facebook but I did today to check a message from a friend. A
On my Wall, I see a pic of WH with another woman (not OW) this other woman does canoe competitions with him and he was flirting with her way back when I was also canoeing. I also saw that there were videos of the last competition he did and could not resist but click on one of them and there he was after having won the race all smiles and as happy as a clam.
OK, here is the question....the pic was posted by my sister in law with the comment "My brother Jeff".
My SIL is on my side in fact I am going to visit her in august. What was she thinking? WH and this woman are not hugging or anything romantic, but it IS a pic of my H with another woman right on my wall!
I am just puzzled...Plus the videos...does she want to show me he is doing well and he is very very happy without me? She is really not that type at all and I doubt that that is her intention...but what the h@ll.
Maybe WH sent the pic to her with his spin of the story...he is finally opening up to people maybe...
Please please let me know what you think....!!!
Blessing
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 11:55 AM
atena:

If this woman has been a positive force for you by and by, I would chalk this one up as an accidental oversight.

If you are on good terms with her, you may add a private sidenote to her, maybe using a little sarcasm "gee! that was a lovely photo. Byt the way, who was Lone Rangers horse?? TRIGGER?"
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 12:05 PM
Thank you Barbie. I am tempted to send her this message....playing dumb and saying: Hi Mary, please, please please do not take this as a criticism, but a pic of your brother and another woman (posted by you) is on my wall. Since I do not use facebook that much, is there a way I can get rid of it from my wall?...since it is not very uplifting...
I love you
Atena

What do you all think?
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 12:19 PM
Was it actually posted to your wall? Or was it in your news feed as something that she posted or uploaded? If it is posted on your wall, you can delete it.

I would be honest with her and just let her know that it hurts you to see or hear anything about WH and ask her to not tag you in any pic of him or stuff like that. If she really has been in your corner, she isn't going to want to do anything that will harm you. I am almost sure that this is just an oversight on her part.

Take care.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 12:28 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Thank you Barbie. I am tempted to send her this message....playing dumb and saying: Hi Mary, please, please please do not take this as a criticism, but a pic of your brother and another woman (posted by you) is on my wall. Since I do not use facebook that much, is there a way I can get rid of it from my wall?...since it is not very uplifting...
I love you
Atena

What do you all think?

Atena, I would just delete it. She didn't do it to hurt you and you need her on your side.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 12:28 PM
Scotland, thank you for your post.
I do not agree about the oversight....why would she want to post a pic of her brother with someone else? She can tell that her brother is not alone in the picture! There were many other pictures I am sure she could have picked but she picked that one....(I am only guessing but I am sure my H has posted many pics from the race and since SIL is a facebook friend of H she could have selected any other one.....)
I am just puzzled....
OK, this is what I am thinking....WH dumped neighbor OW and is now with this new one. Since this new one is not the cause of the end of my M, he is planning to slowly introduce her to the world and has told SIL that she will meet this OW soon. Maybe SIL is trying to ease her in...

blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 12:34 PM
Atena, are you looking at this facebook and triggering yourself? crazy
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 12:40 PM
NO, I never do facebook, I just happened to get an email from a friend telling me to look at some of her pics.
I am just wondering my my SIL has turned cruel and i am worried because I am spending a couple of weeks with her in august...I am afraid she drank WH cool aid.
My H has a plan and it is to show himself with OWs so that he gets out scott free from having had an A for a long long time with the neighbor. This is what is getting me really upset. It is a trigger, sure. But unplanned.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 01:09 PM
It seems to be the consesus of other posters that your SIL did not do this on purpose...and I agree.....Your WH may have had his own agenda, but it could have easily been an oversight on your SIL part...JMHO
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by atena
NOI am spending a couple of weeks with her in august...I am afraid she drank WH cool aid.
My H has a plan and it is to show himself with OWs so that he gets out scott free from having had an A for a long long time with the neighbor. This is what is getting me really upset. It is a trigger, sure. But unplanned.

Atena, are you concerned that this is going to trigger you terribly being around his sister??
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 01:14 PM
No no no you guys....! What is wrong with you all...?
Do you really believe that my SIL did not NOTICE my H was in the pic with another woman????
OK, I can grant that she did not know it was also going to show up on my wall, but I question also why she would want a pic like that on HER wall?
Helloooo, why in the world whould she post a pic of him with a woman when she knows the whole world knows he is having an A and the whole world is going to wonder if she is the A partner????
I don't know if I am making sense...or if I am just being thick..
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 01:19 PM
No, you are making sense, atena.....I dont know if I see it that way though, but you know SIL better than me, so.....I think your WH definitly did it on purpose, maybe he spun it to make it look like you wouldnt care because he was with a different OW. He did it on purpose, but I am not sure if she did....
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 01:59 PM
He just does not care. Someone took his picture with her and he posted it. I think if anything he is showing the world his true colors. A womanizer. Whatever he spins the truth remains and it will show more and more as time goes by.
By the way...he looks at least 10 years older on that picture...that means that in 8 months he aged 10 years.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 02:17 PM
I sent the message to SIL. She responded apologizing:
this is her message:
I am so sorry atena, I thought that the woman he was with was part of his rowing team. It did not occur to me that people would see something different than rowing. But, you are right! I will remove the picture immediately. Up on the right hand corner of the picture that I posted on your stream-- a delete button will emerge if you scroll over-- just in case it does not disappear after I delete. Atena, I am sorry. I will be more sensitive when I post pictures. Love, Mary
I think this is good, she is still on my side and I feel better.
No, I have no problem visiting her. The reason I wanted it removed from my wall is because I just do not want to have pics of my WH with OW floating around while I am still M to him. It is simply a matter of good taste...and respect for myself.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 07:20 PM
I am sorry I need some support here.
I did something very very stupid. I went on the website of the rowing club my WH is part of. They posted 248 pics of their last turnament.
There was WH is several pics looking buff and in others he was talking to several women.
No sign of OW till pic 248, the last one, where she is in a group pic in front of the ferry but WH was not in it, he was probably taking the pic. They took a ferry to go to the competition place so she probably picked him up at the ferry but did not go with him to the competition.
Needless to say all those pics were a mighty trigger.
I have been sobbing uncontrollably for 3 hours. I feel as if my heart is breaking the pain was so big and still is. My stomach is twisting, I feel like the world has ended.
Why did I do that to myself? you can be honest, I will take it.
Please, I need some workds of encouragement, some help...thank you!
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 07:38 PM
bump---please help!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 07:55 PM
bump--please help
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 08:01 PM
Atena,

The reason you did it is you SO badly want to know what he is up to. You SO badly want him to quickly snap to and be the guy you want him to be.

You are not in a true B.

You need to find a way to remember this pain of peeking and to let that guide you to NOT ever, ever, ever do so.

It is misery for you. Does nothing to him. Misery is not the way to go. You are able to fight the urge and move forward to good times.

Fight that urge. Perhaps put a rubber band on your wrist like a person trying to fight any other sort of habit and snap it when you are tempted.

Atena. You are taking so very long to get out of the grief because you are surrendering to the temptation to peek, check out and to find ways to know what is up with him.

I know a bit of what you are going through because I have felt many of the same temptations and thoughts. Closing the doors to the Wayward as much as possible though brings me peace of mind and I choose that. You choose that too please. Choose Atena over choosing finding out a bit about him here and there. Choose yourself.

Now, be kind to yourself for keeping tabs but resolve to do so no longer!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 08:07 PM
Yes, you are right I do want to know what he is up to ...it has been almost 9 months without a word from him and you are right I am ripe for him to snap out of it and come back to the M.
I see him so happy in those pics and having such a great time. I just was imagining him to be miserable...he probably is inside...but he is also having fun
I am not respecting myself at all....I would not do this to anybody...
thank you for your help
blessing
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 08:09 PM
Atena,

Everytime you deliberately peek at WH and his activities, you are deliberately hurting yourself. BTDT. This will eventually result in you loosing your love for him. Not in the quiet, fade away thing, but in a way that could make you grow to hate him. Your too nice to turn into a shrew smile

Leave him alone and concentrate on you. You much more important.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 08:21 PM
Hi Lill, actually when I see pics of him I like him more..my love seem to come back full force...I do not hate him at all, I just know that what he looks for in relationship now boils down to bachelor activities and a girlfriend he sees when he pleases.
He does not behave like the H I knew. But I do not hate him

blessing
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/27/10 08:27 PM
Hmm, i wonder if it is because with the picture you are remembering him as he was, not as he he is? I had something similar for a while where a pic could make me feel tender towards DH but being 5 mins in his presence tempted me to murder wink

I still think that if a pic triggers you in this way then it is a BAD thing to keep looking at them. Things that make you cry now, are the things that will be your PTSD/triggers later on. I got heart palpitations a few days ago just from seeing the name of a town on a sign MrRollieEyes

I used to think a little bit of these things was ok (breaking a dark Plan B) but after seeing the end result on 2 different occasions now, I firmly believe being totally dark is the best for the BS.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/28/10 12:09 AM
Atena, I am glad that your SIL understands what these "innocent" things may do to you and has decided to try to shield you from them.

ITA, you need to firm up your Plan B. I understand that at the beginning of this Plan B, you weren't totally dark. You started accomplishing that. Now you were starting to feel the FULL effects of a DARK Plan B. It is KILLER. You broke it in a way that only YOU knew about. By that I mean, WH didn't KNOW that you saw those pics. It only hurt you.

You do this to yourself because you miss him. You miss the man you love and married. He is NOT that man right now. He is a shell of a man. That shell looks a lot like your Dear Husband, but it is NOT. Have you read the book "the Host"? It is by Stephanie Meyers(author of "Twilight"). It is about an alien race that is like a parasite and attaches itself to the brain of the host. It takes over the body. When it is done, it discards it. I kind of think of WS like this. Something has taken over their body. They may be in there somewhere, but they would have to FIGHT to come out.

Atena, you are hurting yourself in the long run. I agree with Lil that you will slowly become a person who has NO love left for WH, but in a BAD way.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/07/10 02:40 PM
Today I am particularly down.
I have tons of homework, I am teaching a class that is full to the brim, I am commuting from 2 major cities here in Italy and I am really exhausted. I will yet to move again from yet another appartment on June 13. The house we put on sale has not sold yet and not offers seem to come in. I can't live there but keep paying my part of the mortgage
It is my birthday today and of course, being in plan b and WH not caring at all , I am not going to get anything from him. First time in 20 years.
Was I that terrible to deserve all this? I must be if he really kicked me to the curb...knowing all the stuff I have to deal with now...
sorry I had to vent/
blessing
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/07/10 03:20 PM
hurray


HappyBirthday

Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/07/10 04:40 PM
Atena..Of course you didnt deserve this, bad things happen to good people all the time.....I am sorry you are feeling down, I can relate. Birthdays are hard....Try to do a little something for yourself today. Happy Birthday, sweetie....
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 02:11 PM
I am down again today. It is taking me so long. I am so stressed out. I decided not to think about R the M at all but about R myself.
However, I am still in love with H and secretly hope he contacts me.
I have been in plan B for 9 months now and H has not even made a peep. He is plan Bing me totally.
How would this work....if the fog lifts he then has the urge to contact me??? I don't even know why I am asking this. I am just thinking how to Hs like mine ever think about R the M when the situation looks so hopeless...like: he will not fall back in love with me or miss me in a million years. cry
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 06:25 PM
Hi Atena, I have been on vacation and just checking in on you.

It is ok to be in love with your H. I still have feelings for my real H not the alien he has become and it has been 2 years.

What you need to do is continue to protect yourself. It saves your own sanity.

Don't dwell about the fog lifting. Worry about today. It can overwhelming handling all of this on our own. You are capable.

I was always the very independant one in my M and I still am. What you are feeling is lonely and that is the culprit.

No situation is hopeless and there is a plan for us. Go look at Queenie's story. She is on the recovery board. It is not perfect but the fog had lifted and it is turning around after 2 years.

Blessings to you.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 06:33 PM
((((ATENA)))))

How many times have you SEEN your WH this week? Are you good about NOT seeing him anymore? I am sorry if you aren't working with him anymore. I only ask to see what to tell you. How to be encouraging.

I have those thoughts too. I feel like I need to do something to get my focus off of that. Sometimes, it is something simple and sometimes it's not.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 06:49 PM
thank you Hope and Scotty- I am lonely and miss him, that is the deal. I also have a hard time believing that the romance between WH and OW can last this long. Come on! we all know that the lovey dovey phase burns out pretty quickly.
What I suspect is that WH never told OW that I nuclear exposed him. She would feel very guilty if she knew (she is catholic)
I really do not know why the A is lasting this long...how he can have those strong feelings for her still...after all the shame and guilt he had to go thru.
He is either:
making himself believe he still is crazy about OW and has to work hard to keep the fantasy alive now that is no longer a secret
or
he really is in love with her at this point and the A is going to turn into a full relationship that will prosper...
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 07:03 PM
You are going to make yourself crazy thinking about the why's. What can you do today to get your life closer to where you would like(without WH)? Are there things in your life(not including your WH) that you would like to change? Would you like to learn something different? Maybe take up a new language, or cooking? Have you ever had an interest in photography? If you improve your life, you will gain a HUGE amount of confidence. This will help you on your bad days and when those horrible thoughts come around.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 07:08 PM
Scotty,
without giving away too much info about myself:
--i am in a demanding graduate program
--i teach a demanding class
--on top of that I have a full time job
--i exercise regularly about 1 hour a day

I think my life is pretty full however I keep thinking about WH all the time.There are only a few minutes during the day when I do not.
At night I still wake up many times and it has been a while since I had a good night sleep.
I just want to know this. If there is no hope. If there isn't any then I would resign myself to having lost him
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 07:15 PM
I understand that you are EXTREMELY busy. I was just talking about something that you could do that was different than you are currently doing that would give you some self confidence when you accomplish things. This way, you would feel better about your life TODAY. You would look forward to TOMORROW.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 07:18 PM
there are lots of things I would like to learn that are fun. But I have some contingent problems right now such as deadlines and finding a house and money...i don't know..it seems that everything is falling apart..that being with H kept things in order...
it is very scary
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Scotty,
without giving away too much info about myself:
--i am in a demanding graduate program
Start interacting with other students on your thesis or projects or just ask to go out as a group for coffee/drink - new faces - new friends

--i teach a demanding class Offer to mentor one of your students. I was an adjunct at local college and it makes such a difference in someone's life

--on top of that I have a full time job
The more to do the more your mind is engaged. Sometimes it is your job that will get you through each day.

--i exercise regularly about 1 hour a day Exercise saved me. It was a relief for me mentally, spiritually, physically. Try Yoga it fills your mind and spirit

I think my life is pretty full however I keep thinking about WH all the time.There are only a few minutes during the day when I do not.
We are all guilty of this. Just try to turn it around and change your thoughts. I call a friend, or watch a movie with my DD.

At night I still wake up many times and it has been a while since I had a good night sleep.
It took me over a year to start sleeping through the night. Even now sometimes I wake up for whatever is racing in my brain. I keep a bible next to my bed and now I try and read a few pages before I go to bed. I hadn't looked at the bible for years and years and it is amazing what comfort His words give me.

I just want to know this. If there is no hope. If there isn't any then I would resign myself to having lost him
blessing
We don't know if there is hope. We can only work on ourselves to be the best we can be. It is up to us to DECIDE what we want not based on the feelings of some alien.

Atena you can do this.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 07:38 PM
thank you. I am stuck on a bad pattern.Sometimes thinking of H gives me comfort as it is familiar. But it is really sick.
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 07:49 PM
The best part of MB is that we get it. So many others have gone through what you are feeling. You are not alone here.

When your family just wants you to "move on" (hate that term), friends just want you to drown away your sorrows or there is no one else...I post I post I post.

I have some MB friends that become closer to me than my own family that I call first.

There is support here. Blessings to you.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 08:36 PM
Yes, MB is great. It is really a support because you truly see how many people are in the same situation and how cookie cutter the WS act. It seems that from the cookie cutter way they act there must be pretty much a cookie cutter outcome for them...
blessing
Posted By: Mememe Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 09:46 PM
Quote
At night I still wake up many times and it has been a while since I had a good night sleep.

It is a good idea to get up go to another room and write down what is going through your mind. Oftentimes it is not much and you can then go back to bed.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 09:52 PM
Originally Posted by Mememe
Quote
At night I still wake up many times and it has been a while since I had a good night sleep.

It is a good idea to get up go to another room and write down what is going through your mind. Oftentimes it is not much and you can then go back to bed.

I tried this but it backfired on me. I had a journal book and then it would turn into a novel (depending on my mood -- murder, romance, sci-fi about the A). Those few minutes turn into daybreak. Hope it works better for you!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 09:54 PM
yeah, I kept a journal during my H first A, I do not seem to be able to on this one...I will try
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/11/10 11:03 PM
atena, I am in the same boat as you....somehow we will get through it, we just have to right?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/13/10 09:18 PM
I need your advice on this.
I have friends, H and W who are very supportive of me. Today I moved for the 6th time and the H helped me with that and his W made me a nice birthday lunch and gave me a gift. She can't stand my WH and wants nothing to do with him (he was friends with them as i am). However the H is friends with my H and sees him for lunch and beers. He says he does not condemn what my WH did and that sometimes people have to resort to extreme measures to end their unhapiness in a M....
His words are scary, but he is very supportive and nice and seems to want to stay friends with both me and WH.
What should I do? I do not want to lose their friendship, but I do not like the fact that he condones my WH behaviour.

blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/14/10 12:37 AM
UGGGGGGHHH! How about if you just tell him your feelings like "If someone is unhappy in their M then how about telling their spouse and trying to fix it or DIVORCE them...Cheating and lying are NEVER the answer. Its childish and selfish and very hurtful to the BS." Maybe if you let him know that this has been extremely painful and damaging to have someone you trust go behind your back instead of respecting you as a spouse and telling you they are unhappy.

Maybe then if he can see your side too, it will make you feel better...I had family friends say the same thing and once I explained the humiliation and pain WH had caused me, they understood..."extreme measures" my a$$!!!!..... Sorry I got a little carried away.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/14/10 12:57 AM
Atena, there are going to be a lot of people who will say stupid azz crap like this to you all of the time. It is hard to tell them any different. They don't understand.

I think that the best course of action for you would be to tell this friend that you value your friendship with him and his wife and that you don't want him to pick between your WH and yourself. You should let him know that it is extremely hurtful to you to hear these types of comments. I would also let him know that you do not want to talk about your WH. You are in a dark Plan B and you should not even know that you WH has lunch with this man.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/14/10 01:53 PM
Atena,

That statement your "friend" said is very troubling. When I hear statements like this I think that is leaving a door open for an A in his own home.

If it walks like a duck...

Hope your friend watches her back.

Just my own 2 cents
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/15/10 02:46 PM
Yes, I am always weary of people who are friends with my H knowing what he did. BUT my WH is very good at spinning his own story so who knows what he tells them...
However, not matter what he tells them they can see the pain and the trouble I have been in having changed houses 6 times in 9 months. If they can't see the damage right there, then they are in a stupor and in potential danger of having a A.
Thank you!
You are right...I do not want to know what H is up to.
blessing
Posted By: ChaiLover Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 01:12 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
Atena,

That statement your "friend" said is very troubling. When I hear statements like this I think that is leaving a door open for an A in his own home.

If it walks like a duck...

Hope your friend watches her back.

Just my own 2 cents

Very true Hope. But no one can ever really know the hurt and destruction until it happens to them. Before it happened to me, I would see it and think it was wrong, but it sure didn't hit me like it does now. These days, my heart aches terribly everytime I hear of one. That is why it is so hard to be on this board sometimes. I hurt for each and every person on here. UGH
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by ChaiLover
Originally Posted by hope3343
Atena,

That statement your "friend" said is very troubling. When I hear statements like this I think that is leaving a door open for an A in his own home.

If it walks like a duck...

Hope your friend watches her back.

Just my own 2 cents

Very true Hope. But no one can ever really know the hurt and destruction until it happens to them. Before it happened to me, I would see it and think it was wrong, but it sure didn't hit me like it does now. These days, my heart aches terribly everytime I hear of one. That is why it is so hard to be on this board sometimes. I hurt for each and every person on here. UGH

Chai so true until you experience this no one understands how much it hits you in the gut and knocks you over. Even my film choices have changed. There was a time one of my favorite films was "Same Time Next Year", (Alan Alda and Ellen Burysten), which is based on a yearly A.

It recently was on television late one night and I watched it and was in tears. When you hear how they talk about their spouses and all he wayward garbage it made me almost physically ill. It upset me that Alan's wife died knowing about the A all those years. Just a film but I will never watch it again.

Atena, sorry for the T/J. Just watch your back with your friend's H. Don't be surprised if he starts spewing wayward garbage.

If I had to move 6x in 9 months I would be over the edge. Why do you have to keep moving if you don't mind me asking?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 05:41 PM
I have to keep moving because OW is the downstairs neighbor. I tried to live in our flat the first 3 weeks of our separation but it was impossible. I would meet OW on the stairs several times a day and she would say HI. I would see her getting ready to go to see my H in his new love shack. She would carry stuff that was obviously his. It was unbearable. Plus the walls of the apartment building are so thin that I could hear her screaming kids every night.
I really do not know what to do as I will be homeless again in July. Funds are running low as I have to pay half of the mortgage and rent wherever I go.
Not having a place is the hardest of this all deal. My stuff is all over and I feel up-rooted.
It is also nerve wracking how this friend takes things lightly and expects me to be upbeat.
I like his wife a lot, ut he is a real jerk, even if he tries to be helpful, I can tell he sides with my H.
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I have to keep moving because OW is the downstairs neighbor. I tried to live in our flat the first 3 weeks of our separation but it was impossible. I would meet OW on the stairs several times a day and she would say HI. I would see her getting ready to go to see my H in his new love shack. She would carry stuff that was obviously his. It was unbearable. Plus the walls of the apartment building are so thin that I could hear her screaming kids every night.
I really do not know what to do as I will be homeless again in July. Funds are running low as I have to pay half of the mortgage and rent wherever I go.
Not having a place is the hardest of this all deal. My stuff is all over and I feel up-rooted.
It is also nerve wracking how this friend takes things lightly and expects me to be upbeat.
I like his wife a lot, ut he is a real jerk, even if he tries to be helpful, I can tell he sides with my H.
blessing

atena, I am sorry. Is there anyway your WH can move back into the house and you move into another place. Why should you be inconvienced while he is wayward? Can you get OW thrown out. I know getting a D is tougher in the country you are in and it might be frowned upon. is OW renting there? Complain about the noise, complain about the situation -- expose it in your building.

Your friend has no clue on your situation. Unless she walks the walk she will be clueless. I would get legal advice and ask that your H caused this situation he should be responsible for all of the mortgage.

Just some thoughts.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 06:33 PM
It was my mistake as H was living in the apartment when we initially separated (when i found out about the A I moved ot friends) but after a few weeks my friends and others started telling me that since he was the one having the A he should move and i should have the right to be in my home. SO i asked H to move and he did, but at that point, after 3 weeks of agony i realized i could not live there.
OW is totally exposed to the whole neighborhood. she does not care. She owns the place.
I plan to ask WH to move back in in Sept or to start making plans for renting the place.
I talked to a lawyer a while back but here we need to be legally separated for 3 years to obain a D and only a D can enforce H to do xy and z.
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by atena
It was my mistake as H was living in the apartment when we initially separated (when i found out about the A I moved ot friends) but after a few weeks my friends and others started telling me that since he was the one having the A he should move and i should have the right to be in my home. SO i asked H to move and he did, but at that point, after 3 weeks of agony i realized i could not live there.
OW is totally exposed to the whole neighborhood. she does not care. She owns the place.
I plan to ask WH to move back in in Sept or to start making plans for renting the place.
I talked to a lawyer a while back but here we need to be legally separated for 3 years to obain a D and only a D can enforce H to do xy and z.
blessing

Your OW has big ones for sure. Having the neighborhood know, having kids and still living there takes big ones for sure.

Tell your WH NOW that starting August 1, the house needs to be rented. You can no longer afford paying a rent and mortgage. If he choses to move back he needs to pay the whole mortgage based on the circumstances. Have an attorney draw this up and have it notarized.

I wish they had 3 years legal seperation in my state. Great way for these A to die out.

Take care of yourself Atena. You have God's grace.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 07:08 PM
It is hopefull if it is true what I keep reading: that the fog lifts when the A is over or on the rocks.
If it ever lifts for my WH!
I will first have my IM contact him, if he does not respond I will take your advice and send the document thru a lawyer, but it will have no legal value so it will be totally up to my H. The lawyer adviced me to keep using my H's money because to all effects I am still his wife and have all the rights. Lawyer also said that it is best not to upset H because if at this point I have nothing to enforce him to pay the mortgage.
blessing
Posted By: ToBeContinued Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
Even my film choices have changed. There was a time one of my favorite films was "Same Time Next Year", (Alan Alda and Ellen Burysten), which is based on a yearly A.

It recently was on television late one night and I watched it and was in tears. When you hear how they talk about their spouses and all he wayward garbage it made me almost physically ill. It upset me that Alan's wife died knowing about the A all those years. Just a film but I will never watch it again.

I also ran across that flick the other night! I hadn't seen it in many years, and sometimes I enjoy watching a movie again after a long period of time in order to see how my perspective has changed over the years.

Not that one. Couldn't flip it on for even a few minutes. Slight trigger issue for TBC, maybe????

Funny, I can still watch 'Fatal Attraction', though. Not exactly sure what THAT says about me....

Sorry for adding to the T/J, Atena.....

Hang in there....

TBC
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 08:22 PM
Originally Posted by atena
It is hopefull if it is true what I keep reading: that the fog lifts when the A is over or on the rocks.
If it ever lifts for my WH!
I will first have my IM contact him, if he does not respond I will take your advice and send the document thru a lawyer, but it will have no legal value so it will be totally up to my H. The lawyer adviced me to keep using my H's money because to all effects I am still his wife and have all the rights. Lawyer also said that it is best not to upset H because if at this point I have nothing to enforce him to pay the mortgage.
blessing

Is the mortgage under both of your names? Even though it is not through the court coming from the lawyer might make it more official.

Use all of the money or stockpile it. Originally when my XH started to "act out" and I started to realize there was someone else involved, I did drive through to the ATM's pulling out cold hard cash and stored it away. From the time from D-Day to when XH moved out, I effectively moved a significant amount of cash to carry us through.

It was a blessing that I took care of my own family because XH proceeded to go spend every cent that we divided, his 401K and reached the max on both credit cards. Protect yourself any way you can.

It is 2 years this month and A is still going strong. The affairage will be held in October. Will they last -- absolutely not. There are already some chinks in their R. XH whining he is always broke, a few times that PP berates XH in front of people and she is already flirting with her new boss.

Right now I feel like a divorced wife. I get together with friends but I am not interested in dating. Not sure if I will ever be ready.

TBC, Can't compare the 2 films. I am a fan of "fatal attraction" because of such a "happy ending"..snicker snicker.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 08:27 PM
My H has 3,000 $ in his account, has no car, nothing.. my son told me a while ago that the love shack H rents is no bigger than an oversized closet. My H is a tall man.
Yet, H seems to do just fine.
All in all...he has no money and I have nothing to take from him as he has nothing.
He told me shortly before we separated: maybe I have to lose everything and end up with nothing in order to start anew.
Well that's what he wished for and that's what he has...or better we have, because I am also paying for this, but i did not wish for it...as he did
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 09:21 PM
Even though you think he is doing fine. He is not. Just focus on what your needs are.

How long have you been M? Does he have retirement? social security? What about the house -- is there any equity.

Because your H wants to be totally un-accountable financially does not mean that will happen. Did you ask the lawyer about this? Is there equality in your earning power? There is much to be looked at.

In one of your original posts you mentioned gaining a signicant amount of weight. Have you been making changes in this.

My DD30 told me when I saw her that this is the best I looked -- EVER. I still have 30 pounds to lose but I have come so far in taking care of myself. I exercise regularly and keep at it.

I have some new friends that I go out with that are not "man hunting". I focus on my family and my blessings.

How old are the OW kids? He has not even come close to the reality of being involved with this OW kids and being a substitute daddy. Patience, time, and grace.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 09:29 PM
I have been M 20 years. He has no retirement but he does have social security. His family is wealthy and he will inherit lots of money so he never really worried about his old age.
The house is up for sale and it is not selling the equity is small at this day and age given the markets.
Under Italian law till the D is final I cannot enforce anything.
I have not gained any weight, I do excercise and look quite good, they tell me.
At this time I do not want to see anybody, I am fine alone. I have no patience with people and the friends I have except a few have ties to the past when I was with H so they are a source o triggers for me.
I am still convinced H is doing well otherwise I would know about it and he would contact me...he is not
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/17/10 09:44 PM
Hi Atena,
Sorry about the weight thing, I thought one of your original posts said your H looked great and you gained about 50 pounds? tongue in cheek??

I am also fine alone. Avoid all triggers and if it is old friends I agree. There are a few past friends that I hardly communicate with at all.

I spent so much wasted time thinking about how my XWH was doing, thinking, even dreaming. It is a waste of your resources.
He will tell you he is doing well, great, very happy...fog babble.

The reality he is now an overbloated drunk with a silly simpering fake plastic woman. In the mathematical world this equation will not balance in time.

Even if your H and Ow implode, it does not mean he will contact you immediately. (eg. Queenies thread).

Blessings back to you!

Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/18/10 01:05 AM
No, that was probably me you remember...I gained about 50 pounds and my WH looks better than ever... sigh
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/18/10 03:08 AM
Ok right thread, wrong poster! LOL. Hope you are doing well stillhere. sorry Atena.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 12:19 PM
Hi all,
Sorry I always come here to vent, but I have been thinking of WH non stop. I miss him so much and I am so jelous of him and OW I still see them together in my mind's eye almost constantly.
I have not seen H now for quite a while and have been super busy with work, study and a million other things.
However I am now spinning things in my head telling myself that if H left me it must have been also my fault.
I am so dependend and addincted to him that my life seems so empty now and without meaning.
if I can't be happy on my own how can I expect people to be happy with me.
I clinged on H way too much and made him the center of my world. NOw that he is gone I crumble and do not seem to find the motivation nor the desire to do things without him.
Looking back, I have to admit I have been way to much clingy and pesky with him and every human beeing would have gotten tired of such a suffocating spouse.....
blessing
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 01:34 PM
Then you need to find those people in your life that will help you, that is why exposure is important so then everyone knows, and you can go to them when it is getting hard. Have you talked with your family? Or his family? Have you thought about getting on meds to help calm your emotions?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 01:44 PM
I have and I do have a lot of support, however now I hear that H tells his siblings that he thinks I moved on and that i have come to terms with the end of our M so he is not worried at all about the impact this separation has on me.
So I gather he believes I do not want to go back to him even if he wanted to (he really does not....he is still in an active A)
Would him thinking this way jeopardize a future (even if impossible..)recovery of the M?
blessing
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 01:54 PM
Sounds like he feel guilty, and the only way to justify and make what he's doing to you "OK", is to "THINK" that you are over him.

I really am sorry frown I wouldn't know what to do in your situation.

Maybe if you can get some meds and start thinking about you, the only reason for plan B is to fix you not him, you can't control his actions, but you can control yours.

Try not to think about him

Keep your self busy all the time!

Visit family and friends, and TRY to be more happy!

Go do something for you this week, if its just a new hair cut, a new outfit, manicure, or a pedicure etc...you DESERVE IT!

When you find your self not busy, get in the car and drive to a friends house, do you have kids? If so take your kids to a play date.

I know you are busy at work, but when you are home you still need to keep busy, get your mind off your husband, start thinking how to improve yourself, so when this is finally over you can either go into a GREAT recovery or find someone who will treat you right that you deserve. smile
Posted By: NewLife2 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 02:43 PM
Atena, it comes with time... I was the same way, and you will get comfortable in your own skin, it might take awhile but it happens. When that day comes you'll be able to handle anything with grace and streangh. You can't rush these things but untill your there naturaly fake it till you make it. Pretend you are everything you wish you were right now and do the things that other you would do, this will help you become, a little faster and that fake confidence will turn real. You'll see it works smile hang in there
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 02:44 PM
I was just wondering if it is common in plan B that WS make themselves believe BS has moved on...and if so, how can I BS even hope for M recovery?
Blessing
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 02:54 PM
Yes it is common..but it's just another lie, you need to understand that your H is still a wayward and when he is still a WH he will lie to everyone and himself.

But you need to understand something, he will NEVER be happy again no matter how many lie's he tells himself...in the end he will still be unhappy.

So forget about what he's saying and those lies he is telling everyone.

I agree with newlife, fake it till you make it, be happy no matter how how sad you are, smile, no matter how hard you just want to cry, be positive, no matter how hard it is!

In the end just know that you will be a stronger woman! smile
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Hi all,
Sorry I always come here to vent, but I have been thinking of WH non stop. I miss him so much and I am so jelous of him and OW I still see them together in my mind's eye almost constantly.
I have not seen H now for quite a while and have been super busy with work, study and a million other things.
However I am now spinning things in my head telling myself that if H left me it must have been also my fault.
I am so dependend and addincted to him that my life seems so empty now and without meaning.
if I can't be happy on my own how can I expect people to be happy with me.
I clinged on H way too much and made him the center of my world. NOw that he is gone I crumble and do not seem to find the motivation nor the desire to do things without him.
Looking back, I have to admit I have been way to much clingy and pesky with him and every human beeing would have gotten tired of such a suffocating spouse.....
blessing

This is the place to vent. It is a "safe place" for all of the BS.

What you are feeling is normal but don't let it get out of hand. Use it to work on yourself.

It took me over a year to truly realize that I was not to blame for XH A. He would give every justification in his fog babble mind and I finally said "it was no excuse to commit adultery with your direct report".

Plain and simple.

No M is perfect -- that is only in fairy tales. We all have failings and regrets. Cannot have these overwhelm us.

Reading your posts I do not see that clingy and dependant woman you describe.

What I see is a very strong, intelligent woman, who despite this downturn in your life right now, shines bright and true.

Do not sell yourself short. Take one day at a time. Stay dark, work on yourself because you are worth it!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 06:10 PM
Thank you for your posts, they really help.
I like the suggestion to smile and fake it till you make it, it helps to have a positive attitude and to see the bright side of things.
After all we never know what is around the corner and things are certainly better without the WS around. As they are now they were driving us insane and had no respect for us.
It is still mind boggling, however, how he can prefer to spend time with OW who is such a life and not even that attractive after all. She is much younger than I am but that is pretty much it. I guess for sex sake that counts...
blessing
Posted By: ChaiLover Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 06:41 PM
Aetna,

You are normal and it does take time. If your WH is still in an active A there will not be one thing that you can do right now. If you still want to recover your M, you will have to sit back and wait for the A to crash and burn. And if he thinks you have moved on, so be it. That is the lie that he tells himself to justify what he is doing.

Sit back and wait for the A to end. Then if you still want to recover your M you can take steps to try then. Until then, work on you. I was two years before I really started feeling better. My XWH is having serious health issues and it sounds like that A is on the rocks, but I have reached a point where I am not even sure I would want the hassle of even trying to recover. I have peace now and to bring my XWH into the fold again would be starting a life of chaos over. It took me a looong time to get here though.

Peace to you..
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 07:33 PM
I think that when they compare A to rape they are totally right. I am still in shock and the reason why i see images of WH and OW all the time is because of the shock...it is like the rape victim always replaying the rape scene in her mind...
I know WH is in the fog but it is hard to believe he can live his life so lightly with all the damage and pain he has caused.
A friend of mine who is a therapist and a man says that Wh does not realize the magnitude of his actions. WH has faith that I am strong and heartless and therefore I am not as effected by his actions plus WH knew that while he was having the A and being cold and distant I was suffering therefore WH thinks that him leaving is finally liberating to me. WH has no idea what I am going thru.
Blessing
Posted By: SmilingWoman Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/22/10 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I think that when they compare A to rape they are totally right. I am still in shock and the reason why i see images of WH and OW all the time is because of the shock...it is like the rape victim always replaying the rape scene in her mind...
I know WH is in the fog but it is hard to believe he can live his life so lightly with all the damage and pain he has caused.
A friend of mine who is a therapist and a man says that Wh does not realize the magnitude of his actions. WH has faith that I am strong and heartless and therefore I am not as effected by his actions plus WH knew that while he was having the A and being cold and distant I was suffering therefore WH thinks that him leaving is finally liberating to me. WH has no idea what I am going thru.
Blessing

It is very hard. My divorce has been final since end of November. I have highs and lows. Last night was horrible...I was awake from 2-4:30 obsessing about everthing. This week has been particularly difficult as my X is moving back in to our marital home---HIS home now that he bought me out. I kept having images of her being in the house I thought I would die in. It was overwhelming. I was near tears in the middle of the night. He isn't worth it though. She isn't either. I just do my best to redirect my thoughts and be as positive as I can.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/23/10 04:33 PM
SM, that must be hard. That shows how heartless he is and how infatuated he is about OW. It is unbelievable what they do when they are taken by the A...
I took a sleeping pill last night so I could a least get a good night sleep. I am so busy and can't afford to lose a beat. I feel so drained of energy, thinking of WH is really taking it all out of me.
I wish I did not give a rat's behind about him!
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/25/10 11:33 AM
I have been praying a lot. I hope my prayers will be answered. I heard that they never go unanswered!
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/25/10 11:49 AM
I am glad that you are finding peace in your prayers. I never really prayed often enough before I found this site, now it's at least twice a day.

Thing is, sometimes we don't get the answer to the prayer that WE want. And sometimes, a no is still an answer.

How are things progressing with keeping dark?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/25/10 11:54 AM
I have been the darkest in these last 3 weeks. School is over and I am in a totally different town now. I never see H.
But I am still thinking about him all the time, still in love...still hoping to R the M....still praying for him to see the light...
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/25/10 11:58 AM
It's okay to have hope and to hang on to it. I am happy that you have been able to be completely dark. It WILL get easier as time passes. Focus on YOURSELF and your own personal recovery. Remember, we are always here to lend you a hand UP. laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/25/10 12:02 PM
Thank you!
I am also looking into moving because once school starts again I will see H often and I can't stand the idea. I will have to find a new job but it is good I start the process.
For some reason I think itis best just to go...adn then if H wants to R the M he can always look for me and make the 1st move. I am not going to look for him.
It is up to him to show me what he really has and that he really cares...
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/25/10 03:37 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Thank you!
I am also looking into moving because once school starts again I will see H often and I can't stand the idea. I will have to find a new job but it is good I start the process.
For some reason I think itis best just to go...adn then if H wants to R the M he can always look for me and make the 1st move. I am not going to look for him.
It is up to him to show me what he really has and that he really cares...
blessing

Atena, hug This is the strength you are finding now within yourself. It takes time to pull it together. It has been almost 2 years from D Day for me to rebuild my inner self. I have not seen XH or PP for about 1.5 months even though we work for the same company. Interestly enough the tide has turned where it is the 2 of them that are so uncomfortable when they see me. I am not the same broken woman and they don't know how to deal with this.

I still love XH, not the creature he has become. I keep those good memories safe in my heart. But I do know that I cannot convince him to come back. These men needs to hit rock bottom, stop seeing OW and pray the fog clears.

Prayer is great. God answers all good prayers. I no longer pray for God to send XH back home. He knows that. I pray that I will trust God and praise him because He knows what is best for me.

take care. Blessings.
Posted By: TravelMonkey Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/25/10 05:05 PM
Atena, I haven't posted to you for a while.

I just want to say "Keep strong". It does get easier with time and it certainly gets easier when you don't see or hear from them.

To quote Hope "I no longer pray for God to send XH back home."
I feel that I am in a better place than I was before this all happened and I am thankful for that. I have no job from July and no husband but I strangely feel happier than when we lived together as a dual income couple. I feel that I can now cope with anything.

Please believe that this will happen for you to.

Do you have any travel plans for the summer? I am having a party in England at the end of July which you are welcome to come to. smile

TM
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/10 08:27 PM
Thank you TravelMonkey, I wish I could come to England. Maybe at some point I will. If you plan to come to Italy I will probably be more settled during the fall even if my place is empty so really I do have room for you....
My mom came to visit me. I told her more details about WH, but I am not sure I did the right thing. She is 80 years old...
she cried a lot thinking all the suffering I had to go thru since my H first A from 2004 till now. She did not know H had another A before this one which was the fatal one.
I am not sure how much to tell people anymore. I do not know how good it does to my mom who is old and has her problems to know how much H has put me thru...what do you think?
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/10 11:03 PM
It's an O&H thing for me. I seem to come right out and tell people when they ask. Like the other day, I had a friend who WH and I went to college with and who attended our wedding. He also worked with WH for almost 8 years, but he never met OW. He saw me the other day and said, "How is WH and the boys?" I said, "WH is having an affair with OW and he moved in with her 6 months ago." Gets it all out there. Next thing I usually say is, "I would love for him to come home, he just needs to stop his affair first." See, same message over and over again, no matter who I talk to. That way, if anyone sees WH(and I am SURE some will) they will know the TRUTH. laugh

Your mom is worried about you. That doesn't change no matter how old you are. Think about what you would do for your own kiddo. smile
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/28/10 04:15 PM
Atena, like you my Mom is elderly too (86).

I held off telling her till we (DD and I) for that first Christmas. She said that is why that XH no longer calls me.

She was angry which she expressed to various family members (especially that he moved us 1900 miles away and dumped his family 2 years later). She recently told DD16 that XH just walked out their lives also and never called her once again after taking him into our family for almost 25 years.

We cannot protect them. I don't bash him and I really do not talk about him to my Mom.

Recently, my Mom has been diagnosed with dementia. It has sugar coated her feelings for XH. I think sometimes she forgets that we are no longer together.
Weird how life happens.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/06/10 07:38 PM
Hi all,
I just need some help with my relationship with my son.
He is in the states and he is now at my IL for the month of july he just finished summer clases at college.
Every time i talk to him it is a huge trigger. He is kind and supportive, but there is a big pink elephant in the room, his dad, and we do not address him or talk about him.
My son now is at my IL as I said and of course my IL do not talk to me much, so he must feel that too..they used to love to talk to me.
I have to admit I sometime dread to calll him,not only now that he is at IL but also when he is at college. After I talk to him my heart hurts as if it broke again and I feel deep sorrow for him for the situation we are in and for the family that has been destroyed.
It is not the same. We were very much a close family and we both know one member is missing and we both miss him I am sure.
Any advice on what to do? Is there a secret on how to continue to have a good relationship with kids even when WH has completely checked out and is in an active A?
Thank you!
Blessing
tri
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/06/10 08:00 PM
bump
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/06/10 08:28 PM
I understand those pink elephants.

For your son, like yourself, this A has shattered his life too. My DD30 fell apart and felt abandoned by XH.

It was a black hole but in time it will get better. Sometimes it might be better to bring it up. Once it is in the open then it might be easier for both of you.

Your son is trying to be strong and loyal to you and since he is staying with IL I am sure he is stuck in his feelings.

It took a long time to feel comfortable in our own skin again.

When we talk about XH it is usually about the old times not the alien he has become.

In time it will become easier. Focus on your son and your relationship with him.

Breathe.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/06/10 08:37 PM
Thank you Hope.
I guess my son might secretly hope we will one day be together again. He hinted in the past that "dad is acting like a teenager but the lady he sees...he is not that serious with her I am sure.
I do not know if he said those things to make me feel better or for himself to have some hope...
I wish my WH could understant the devastation he left behind and how many people are sad because of his actions !!!
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/10/10 04:10 PM
Hi all,
I came back from a diffent city where i spent a month working. I was doing better, but I had to stop to the appartment and then triggers were right there in front of me.
I am at my brother's now as I could not bare it and bust into tears. I am not doing well and I still feel love for WH and can't bare the thought of him and OW. I have not seen him in a long while now, but I guess just seeing his bike parked in the garage (he never keeps it there so he must have gone on vacation or something...) makes me sick and miss him tremendously.
Help...
blessing
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/10/10 08:31 PM
(((Atena))) I'm so sorry. Better days are ahead, hon. I'm glad you had a plan, to go to your brither's.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/12/10 12:58 PM
Well, it looks like WH moved in with OW, that was the reason his bike was in the garage. The summer rental he was using all winter long rents for much higher in the summer so I guess he is parking himself at OW's house.
Why does this never end? Hopefully him living with her and her 2 brats will give him a taste of reality.
What do you all say?
Blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/12/10 01:15 PM
Well, I could say that you shouldn't know these things. I don't know how you found out. You have to plug up those holes Atena. It's not about what your WH knows that you know. It is about the love that is trickling out and about you being stuck and not having the full benefit of personal recovery while in Plan B.

You HAVE to stop thinking about the two of them. I know it is hard. I slip pretty much every day. I have to catch myself though and change my thought pattern. This way, I am training my brain not to think about WH. It has been 18 years that I thought about WH FIRST in everything I did. For you, it has been longer. Don't get too hard on yourself that it is taking so long to make him NOT be the FIRST thing you think about. Just focus on the things you can control and change. That would be your actions and your thoughts.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/12/10 01:20 PM
the home we used to live in together and we are tring to sell I use it for storage adn I have to get stuff in and out, every month or so....I could not help seeing. I did not snoop!
You are right...I should not think of them. Trying every day!
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/12/10 01:28 PM
It's hard, but you can do it.

Is there anyone else who could get things for you? I find that I think about WH MORE after I trigger. It puts me into a real funk. Sometimes it takes days to get out of just by seeing him when he picks up the kiddos. And the thing is, WH doesn't even know I see him. So it's not about HIM, it's all ME. I give myself some 2x4's for that. Believe me, I am harder on myself than anyone else could be.

Just Saturday, I was walking to the bus stop(I had looked out the window to make sure WH was gone and saw OW in MY seat in the car) and I started to cry. I thought about how my marriage is OVER. I thought about how I was never going to have DH back and that he would be happy with OW. I was getting into a real funk. I let myself cry and then I berated myself for looking. I didn't NEED to look. Although, had I walked out, it would have been worse. Then I told myself that I have been living on my own for 7 months now and I am FINE. I CAN do this. I AM doing this. I asked myself what I truly want and my answer wa simply, "I want to be HAPPY." I am now focusing on being HAPPY. I need to find things that bring JOY to my life. Part of it is this place. I LOVE to help others. It makes me feel good. So thank you. laugh

Find the things that bring you JOY and try to not trigger yourself. Take care.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/12/10 03:57 PM
Thnk you, that is hard to see OW where you used to sit in the car.
Do you live in the same town?
Sorry about the info of my WH moving in with OW. It was wrong, it was my obsession and fear. He must have stopped by at her house that day, but the friend who gets my mail told me her H spent recreation time with my WH 3 days ago and WH still lives in the same spot and is still totally into his teenage bachelor lifestyle, he also fixed a motorcycle he had in the garage for a while....
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/12/10 04:37 PM
I do not live in the same town as WH and OW. They live 30 minutes away and work in a city 20 minutes away. It is in the same region. We CAN run into each other IF I go to their city, or the city they work, but I AVOID it at all costs. As far as I know(because I AM in Plan B), WH only comes to our home city when he comes to get the kiddos. They stay away from my workplace, as far as I know, and WH has stopped talking to all of his old friends. There is no reason for him to come here other than to see the kiddos. His life has now become about OW. He actually started doing that last summer but I didn't know what it meant. If I had found this place, I am CERTAIN that you guys would have been able to tell me what was going on.

You don't have to apologize to us about the misinformation. We don't need the apology. All I am trying to do is call you on your thinking and where it is focused and try to help you get a different focus. I KNOW what it feels like and I know what you are going through. I understand the way that some others in your real life can not. I know what it is like when people tell you things. I get caught off guard. I know people who work near WH and OW and they MAY see them but after the first time they told me, they don't tell me again, and I DON'T ask.

You see, I know how much better I feel after a few days of absolute darkness and I know how easily I can be thrown by a "close encounter of the wayward kind" as I call it. I only wish that for you. The peace you find when you have been DARK as NIGHT for weeks. It feels so much better. I know because of the way I feel after any small trigger. I can be thrown off course for DAYS. It is a process though. Like I keep being told, recovery is a marathon not a sprint, even personal recovery.

Have you read the buyers/renters/freeloaders thread y Pepperband? It really helped me out when I felt like I was stuck last weekend. I have grown in my personal recovery by realizing that we as a BS are usually a faithful buyer and we are in a different mindset. To be in a truly dark and effective Plan B(By effective, I mean for personal recovery), we need to change our mindset from buyer to renter. By that, I mean that we have to willing to be divorced. We have accept that that IS a possibility and that we will be OKAY. It's a hard step and I am still working through that. I know I will be okay but when I said my vows, I intended them to be forever. I NEVER intended to be divorced. A work in progress, that's what we are. As long as we a progressing and we don't get stuck, we are doing good.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/12/10 05:33 PM
Unfortunately I live in the same town as WH and even if I do not live in the apartment we both own (bacause OW lives downstairs) I still go to the lake. Up until a few months ago when I went to the lake a did a detour with my bike of 10 miles in order not to transit in front of WH new place. However today I decided I was going to go for a quick swim in the lake and I was not going to do the detour because is way too hot. SO I did not and of course when I was biking back I saw WH walking and we crossed paths. He grinned at me and I made a fake imitating grin and moved past him. For some weird reason I did not care and I am not going to change my plans in the future, if I run into him, so be it. I am not looking forwar to it nor I plan to do it, but if it hapens, it will.
As you said, we have to think of plan D at some point. My WH is really gone and into a totally rewarding lifestyle.
It is time for me to do the same.
I plan to take canoeing lessons soon by joining a club and then I plan to join hiking clubs and other outdoorsy activities because I really like to be outdoors. I came to the realization that I have to do what I like. Period.
We moved to the lake because we liked the outdoors and I am not going to have the lake become an off limit place because it belongs to WH beachlife and his OW.
Scr&w them. I too want to have some fun.
I am really sick of living in this avoiding mood.
If my love for him is trickling away, so be it....I doubt there are any grounds for recovery at this point.
If any of you want to come and visit me here let me know. The city is close and there are great aoutdoors.
Scotty let me know if you are up to it.
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/12/10 10:05 PM
Atena hugs to you.

Triggers are killers. I have not seen XH for 2 months and it does help. God is keeping him out of my path for now.

It has been 2 years for me and I am so much stronger. It takes time. Can't believe you rode by each other but stuff happens.

Consider it a blessing if he is living with OW and her bratty kids. Nothing like a reality check when the fantasy is busted as she is yelling at the kids, everyday life takes the romance away.

Would love to visit! lol Was in Italy 2 years ago in March and loved it. Do you get back to the states?

Take care and God bless.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/16/10 07:24 PM
I was talkin to a friend today and she was asking me how I was doing. I did tell her I did not want to talk about WH. SHe said it was understandable since it is very clear now he will never contact me again as he would have done so by now so I am doing well trying to forget him as he has obviously moved on with OW.
I did not say anything to her but I came here to vent.
How can she say with confidence that even if WH has not contacted me ever in 10 months during this plan b I am in, how can she say that he never will? Is she right....?
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/16/10 07:47 PM
Just to add to my previous post...I do not think people realize that power of the A. They do not see the link between WS seeing OP and the WS wanting out of the M.
Also,they see the OP as a full partner with which WS will build a new life. I think they fail to see the nature of the A that is built on lies and cheating and secrecy. They tend to see it as a "regular" relationship.
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/17/10 01:19 AM
But Atena, the power of the A over YOU is all that you have to worry about. You need to take your power back and not let your WH and OW keep hold of you. When you told your friend that you didn't want to talk about your WH, she still did. Where are the boundaries. Keep yourself DARK.

You are doing well at trying to stay darker and that needs to happen to really help you. You CAN and WILL feel better with distance. When you let yourself grieve and heal, you actually won't care about the Affair anymore. You will take control of your life.

Don't get stuck. Hopefully when you get a permanent place to stay and you start making your surroundings better you will feel better.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/17/10 03:57 AM
Originally Posted by atena
I did not say anything to her but I came here to vent.
How can she say with confidence that even if WH has not contacted me ever in 10 months during this plan b I am in, how can she say that he never will? Is she right....?
blessing

I have been venting here for 2 years and MB is my lifeline. People who have not experienced this do not have a clue. Unless they walk a mile in our shoes they do not understand the devastation that an A causes.

My whole outlook has changed after XH started the A. Movies that I loved that had an A I now feel sick to watch again. I remember telling friends why can't they just move on. I am now one of those people.

I ignore 90% of what people say because it is misguided this is a way they think YOU will feel better.

Come here and vent with us. We get it.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/17/10 12:35 PM
Thank you all.
My M is in god's hands and there is nothing I can do at this point but wait for a miracle to restore my WH to his right mind and to help me too gain right mindness.
As he is now, only a miracle can help.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/17/10 02:35 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I was talkin to a friend today and she was asking me how I was doing. I did tell her I did not want to talk about WH. SHe said it was understandable since it is very clear now he will never contact me again as he would have done so by now so I am doing well trying to forget him as he has obviously moved on with OW.
I did not say anything to her but I came here to vent.
How can she say with confidence that even if WH has not contacted me ever in 10 months during this plan b I am in, how can she say that he never will? Is she right....?
blessing

Is she a psychic? That is the only way I can think she would know this. If she is a psychic will you ask her for tomorrows lotto numbers in Texas and we can split the booty? smile
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/17/10 08:19 PM
You really made me laugh! A much needed one! I am doing grades for the class I taught this summer. SO I needed it!
People seem to know a lot especially when it comes to affairs, they seem to think that OW is just like the wife, meaning the WH just substituted A for B and the result is the same.
You can't believe how many people swear my H will never contact me again. I guess they are taking bets and maybe it is an alternative to winning the lottery.

I will ask my friend for the lotto numbers in Texas and you keep the booty.
hugs and blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/17/10 09:23 PM
Atena, I am in Texas too, can you let me know those magic lotto numbers??

I stopped asking or listening to people's opinions. With family and friends who really don't understand I remain as still as possible. I do not try to educate them or sway them to MB.

Yes, leave it in God's hands...truly. Why are we so skeptical of miracles? It is us who has too little faith in His plan.

Take care and blessings.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/17/10 10:00 PM
I always love your encouragements. Thank you. And I do believe in miracles. The world is not rosy and pink in affair land. I am convinced.
I love to read this from time to time (Excerpt from http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200910/beyond-betrayal-life-after-infidelity
thanks to Fred in VA who posted it a while back)
Romantic Infidelity
Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of falling in love. You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continue living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet. An affair with someone grossly inappropriate�someone decades younger or older, someone dependent or dominating, someone with problems even bigger than your own�is so crazily stimulating that it's like a drug that can lift you out of your depression and enable you to feel things again. Of course, between moments of ecstasy, you are more depressed, increasingly alone and alienated in your life, and increasingly hooked on the affair partner. Ideal romance partners are damsels or "dumsels" in distress, people without a life but with a lot of problems, people with bad reality testing and little concern with understanding reality better.

Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages. No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it. Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression from which the affair was an insane flight into escape.


Blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/18/10 12:24 AM


Atena, I found your friend!!! laugh

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/18/10 11:56 AM
rotflmao

She could start a business like the one with the turbant you just sent me.

Wouldn't it be amazing if WH at some point would want to come back so badly that he'll do anything I need him to do to save the M? The what would the psychic say? twoxfour

blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/21/10 07:36 PM
Hi all,
I just came back from the grocery store only to see my WH motorcycle parked outside of it (he now has a motorcycle as his only vehicle), when I came out with my groceries I saw WH and OW who was getting ready to go on the back seat of the motorcycle, they looked at eachother knowingly and then looked at me.
I pretended they were wallpaper...and went on my way. They never use that grocery store.
My heart is broken, I am in so much pain, it has been 10 months now in plan B and WH is acting like a teenager more than ever and is still in love with her.
Why am I in so much pain when they do not give a damn and are happy.
Sorry, but I do not know who to talk to right now and need some support ..help
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/21/10 08:07 PM
bump
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/21/10 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Hi all,
I just came back from the grocery store only to see my WH motorcycle parked outside of it (he now has a motorcycle as his only vehicle), when I came out with my groceries I saw WH and OW who was getting ready to go on the back seat of the motorcycle, they looked at eachother knowingly and then looked at me.
I pretended they were wallpaper...and went on my way. They never use that grocery store.
My heart is broken, I am in so much pain, it has been 10 months now in plan B and WH is acting like a teenager more than ever and is still in love with her.
Why am I in so much pain when they do not give a damn and are happy.
Sorry, but I do not know who to talk to right now and need some support ..help
blessing


((((AETNA))))

I'm so sorry you had to witness that sweetie, I KNOW that hurt!!!! But you know what, they're only fooling themselves. So his only transportation is a motorcycle?? crazy Guess OW's in "lurve" and "right now" it doesn't matter. It will.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/21/10 08:18 PM
princessmeggy,
I think I am fooling myself. They are one of a kind and to not care. Do you really think OW will be bothered by the fact that WH has a motorcycle..
I guess she will start to wonder where he is going...she used to be the only transporation he had but now the motorcycle appeared so that means he is going to be more independent.
He has not shame and no sense of guilt, he is really gone very low,
blessing
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/21/10 08:25 PM
Go back and read the article you posted this afternoon. Part of the allure may be his neediness... NOW. Later, that might get a little old, especially when they think you're completely out of the picture.

P.S. To me that's kind of bassackwards but I guess some women need to rescue and fix.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/21/10 08:26 PM
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Atena}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

How is the job hunt going?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/21/10 08:34 PM
Thank you Princessmeggy, I just think the allure for her was that her H left her for OW and now she is doing the same to me. You are right, I am part of the thrill of it all.

Melody, I am finishing my master and have not much time to job hunt, but once I am done I will start.
I think I would be much better off starting anew with a new person. My WH is kind of gone to the deep end and I doubt he will de-fog any time soon
I am 45 and I do not know who I could find at my age...all men that are around my age are either divorced and full of problems or just full of problems period.

I do not want to spend the rest of my life alone.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/21/10 08:37 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Melody, I am finishing my master and have not much time to job hunt, but once I am done I will start.
I think I would be much better off starting anew with a new person. My WH is kind of gone to the deep end and I doubt he will de-fog any time soon
I am 45 and I do not know who I could find at my age...all men that are around my age are either divorced and full of problems or just full of problems period.

I do not want to spend the rest of my life alone.
blessing

I agree you might be better off getting divorced and finding someone new. But in the short term, you have to get away from him, Atena! It is too hard on your nerves! Every time you see him, it drags you right back to day 1 of Plan B.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/21/10 08:46 PM
I will work on getting away from WH. I was just hoping he would leave but now I see he is too taken by OW: If they broke up he for sure would go...
Her kids and XH do not know of the A, I am just thinking of ways to break it up fast..however I do not want to pay the consequences for it.
Are there "discreet" ways I could let her XH and kids know about this without WH and OW knowing it was me?
You see WH was thinkig of moving abroad about 6 months ago then the A got deeper and more involved and he changed his mind.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 01:27 PM
Please tell me what you think of this situation.
I had to stop by my marital apartment because I needed a shelf and a office chair that is there and I need it for the place I am renting.
A friend of mine and his wife helped me. As we arrived to the place i notice my WH motorcycle parked outside and OW's car. So he was in OW's apartment.
My friends and I took the items and then his wife went to get the truck which was parked further away while the her H (jim) and I carried the furniture to the front yard waiting for her.
My WH heard us talk I am sure. He is friend with Jim and Jim knows the whole story.
SO what WH did was sneak out of the OW place (I saw him with the corner of my eye) and pretended to go down the basement to exit from the garage door, just like in the good old days when the A was secret and he used to rent the basement from OW. SO he was pretending to get out of the basement.
Now I know you are going to tell me not to focus on WH at all but please tell me why--he would decide to leave OW's house right when my friends and I were there in the front yard.
--why would he sneak out of the garage? and not even say hi to Jim, who by the way said "Oh look, there is WH, how embarassing...what now...? Well, Hi WH! TO which WH replied with a gesture but did not talk.
--I remaind indifferent as WH Hi gesture was also aimed towards me.
Is WH doing this in purpose? If so why sneak around like that? Why pretend not to see his friend Jim? and why not wait to leave OW's house 10 min later when we would have all been gone!
please help me!
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 02:04 PM
bump - help
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 02:19 PM
ugh.... It makes me sick that you go there and see him. I know you are sick as well today..
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 02:29 PM
But why would he act that way? what is he trying to do?
Does he simply do not give a damn about it or is he still sneaking around as if the A is still secret when is not?
I do not know if he was trying to make a statement with our friends by saying: yes, I am seeing her, so what?
crybaby
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 02:33 PM
Is the apartment still on the market?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 02:41 PM
Yes.
But please tell me what you think of all this.....why is he still so sneaky?
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 02:42 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Please tell me what you think of this situation.
I had to stop by my marital apartment because I needed a shelf and a office chair that is there and I need it for the place I am renting.
A friend of mine and his wife helped me. As we arrived to the place i notice my WH motorcycle parked outside and OW's car. So he was in OW's apartment.
My friends and I took the items and then his wife went to get the truck which was parked further away while the her H (jim) and I carried the furniture to the front yard waiting for her.
My WH heard us talk I am sure. He is friend with Jim and Jim knows the whole story.
SO what WH did was sneak out of the OW place (I saw him with the corner of my eye) and pretended to go down the basement to exit from the garage door, just like in the good old days when the A was secret and he used to rent the basement from OW. SO he was pretending to get out of the basement.
Now I know you are going to tell me not to focus on WH at all but please tell me why--he would decide to leave OW's house right when my friends and I were there in the front yard.
--why would he sneak out of the garage? and not even say hi to Jim, who by the way said "Oh look, there is WH, how embarassing...what now...? Well, Hi WH! TO which WH replied with a gesture but did not talk.
--I remaind indifferent as WH Hi gesture was also aimed towards me.
Is WH doing this in purpose? If so why sneak around like that? Why pretend not to see his friend Jim? and why not wait to leave OW's house 10 min later when we would have all been gone!
please help me!
blessing

Why did he do this sneaking around?
And, is he doing this on purpose?
Why did he not say "Hi" to friend Jim.

This is wayward logic.
Which is inherently illogical.

WH logic is that he can still fool some of the people some of the time.
WH logic is that only appearances matter, not the truth.
WH logic is foggy stinkin'-thinkin' , ergo illogical.
WH logic is that if he appears to be innocent, others (Jim) will not think poorly of him.
WH logic is that if he pretends he did not see Jim (thus avoiding the "Hi, how ya doin'?") ....... He appears to be just living life, NOT sneaking around.

In short, he's being a foolish tool.
He cannot run from his fooltoolishness.
He "thinks" ( a term I use loosely in this case) he appears normal and natural.

You REALLY do not want/need this fool back in his present state.

I think WH wanted you or Jim to acknowledge him first.
How dumb is that?


Pretty damn dumb


Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 03:04 PM
Thank you Pep,
yes, he is in fact trying to act natural, that's pretty much his attitude all the time. He is a master at that. He could be cheating right behind your back but his front will show a normal facade of a man. Just as if nothing is hapenning.
I guess going out when JIm was there was to show he is not doing anything wrong and going out from the basement garage is like saying: I am just picking up something in the basement.

You are right, there is no logic to this. He is activing like a fool, a real fool.
It hurts me still.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 03:33 PM
How can he not see who she really is? OK, 15 years younger than he is and big boobs...cute face, works twice a week and left her 9 year old son in full custody of her xH so she can "dedicate" herself to WH. I wonder what kind of tales she spins to him and he of course believes it all!
Is that enought to leave everything....and can this go on for years?!
blessing
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 03:40 PM
I'm assuming you are asking this question out of frustration.

I say this shouting....

STOP TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OUT OF STUPIDITY

Just cut it out.
You're going to drive yourself nutz!

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 03:45 PM
He used to be and probably still is a very intelligent man.
But you are right. Looking at his behaviour, beeing Aware of how he acts is a big wake up call.
My WH is stupid and acts like one 100%
It must serve him well,because he continues to be stupid.
Blessing
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 03:54 PM
Bill Clinton, when he was president, acted like a stupid a.r.s.e.
He's a Rhodes scholar, so that makes him intelligent. Clinton has a high IQ.

Which does not qualify Clinton for a high EQ, emotional intelligence.

There IS a difference. Depending on "What is, is."

What Clinton did makes NO SENSE.

Stop trying to make sense out of what your WH is doing.
Concentrate on YOU.



Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 04:15 PM
You are so good Pep, you made me feel better. I forget that intelligent people do stupid things all the time and they believe they will never get caught!
And they keep thinking that they are just fine doing what they are doing because....they deserve to be happy and the h@ll with the rest.
You reminded me of something fundamental WH is stupid, fogged up, surrounded by superficial idiots like him (ge got rid of his family and good friends) and the only thing he has right now is her.
But he is happy.
go figure

blessing
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 04:39 PM
Go look at my newest thread ....

BRAIN MATTER
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 05:08 PM
I would say he is attempting to normalise his activity and relationship with this woman. He also seems to enjoy rubbing the A in your face, by what you report he has a penchant for this. This is very sick/unhealthy behavior.

But, really it does not matter what he is doing. There is no one answer to "why". You will drive yourself nuts antagonising about your WH. You need to stop it.

Take back control of your emotional circumstances. I know you are trying, but you keep looking back. I am really glad that the "pillar of salt" rule does not aply. ;-)

I am pulling for you.
Posted By: tully Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 09:10 PM
Hi Atena,

I intended writing something intelligent on this thread a while ago but then a friend rang me for a long chat and now I'm too tired to be in any way intelligent.

I am in a Plan B ish cum Plan D and quite liking it actually. Also I am 44 years old and in recent times am having to beat away the men with a knobbley stick. whistle Dating enough to know that nothing has gone rusty so don't give up. There's big demand out there for strong, independant women, which happily, is the market I'm in. smile
My WH is still with OW and flaunting it too so I know how you feel.
Make sure you get to laugh a lot, it's a great therapy.

Best of luck,
Tully
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/27/10 09:34 PM
Thank you all for posting, it means a lot to me as I am reminded there is a life out there (it is good to know that one day I will be able to date again and that there are men who would be interested and nice)
I am also reminded how much my WH loves to be cruel about the A and show it right to my face. He thinks I much deserve to be betrayed...for what I do not know. I only did nice things and cared very much for my WH when we were still together.

And Pep thank you for startin a whole thread to remind me of the brain thing...that thing that WS do not seem to use that much or just parts of it...the ones we evolved from eons ago.
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/28/10 10:10 PM
Atena, I get into that obsession mode and with time it fades.

The issue is that you are still looking for signs of your old H, the man you loved for years. As long as someone else is pulling their chain (OW) they are no longer the men we knew. They are something much less.

It was difficult for me to accept and I just got a peek yesterday that nothing has changed.

THe OW are toxic and poison their souls. The only road back is when they get dumped for the fog clears.

Also I loved what you wrote on someone else's thread...

Turnips are red but have no blood, in Italy we say: no use trying to take blood out of a turnip.

But we can try!!!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/28/10 10:16 PM
We can try...but there is no blood.
No body recognized my WH.
She will never dump him, she is a desperate dumb-sell in distress who had no life previous to her A with WH. she has two problem kids one of whom, now, she has managed to put in full custody of her unfaithfull serial cheating xH.
WH and OW travel together and she is thrilled with this new lifestyle that she never had before as she was stuck home with those 2 kids.
She is clingy and needy and in due time will put pressure. Then WH will dump her, but she will not dump him.
You know what...he deserves what he has now,
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/25/10 05:13 PM
Hi all, just a little update.
I am in the States staying at SIL. My son is with me. WH is also in the States now but it seems like he has planned to be here when son is with me so he does not have to interact with him. WHv saw son only for 5 days when he could have spent a month with him if he wanted to.
WH brought up OW to son but not in the context of a relationship with him but just as a friend who participates in the same activities he does.
WH told SIL that he is happy me and son are spending time together with her family because this represents a further step in our separation process.
I have to remind myself that WH is in the fog, but it has been a year now since we separated and it seem to me this situation is beyond repair.
Son tells me that his dad does not address anything with him and that their relationship is now based on small talk.
Please let me know if you have any words of wisdom and support. It is hard to be back here in the states without WH. We lived here together for a number of years is I have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that our M might be over for good
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/25/10 05:34 PM
bump
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/25/10 08:01 PM
Hi Atena,
thanks for the update.

I remember when XH moved out October 1 and when we went back to see my family at Christmas the first time without him. It was just awful walking into my sister's house on Christmas Eve and just that big void.

Statistics say it takes up to 2 years for the A to implode. My XH has been in this 26 months and marrying "It" so I can't rely on that statistic.

What I continue to do is work on myself, enjoy my DDs, and try to live my life the best I can even though the rug was pulled out under me.

I don't know what will happen but I do know that God is taking care of me, my family and XH. I need to sit here and wait for the karma bus.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/25/10 08:34 PM
Atena, the only thing I can offer you is to tell you that these feelings are normal and that they get better.

The two most annoying things I would hear when I first went into plan B were, "Everything happens for a reason," and, "Time heals all wounds." It really is true though.

Live your life. Focus on your healing and you will be fine. Some days, I feel like I am just getting by. Other days, I LOVE being alive. It's still a bit of a roller coaster, but it is to be expected. You need to walk THROUGH this, you can't avoid it. You did the right things and you continue to do the right things. You should have solace in that. laugh

Take care
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/27/10 10:22 AM
Thank you for your posts!
I guess people keep telling me that when a relationship is over one must move on.
I do not see it as over yet, that is the problem.
In reality, for my WH, it is over. He has moved on, I have not.
This is the hardest part.
Also, my SIL made me notice that WH is not bringing up OW with anybody thus keeping the A still a secret. Yes, everybody knows, but so far it seems that he has not openly admitted it to anyone...he spent time with his family this summer and OW did not accompany him. Unless he has brought up the A just recently he is still keeping it secret and that keeps it alive!
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 12:46 PM
Hi guys,
I just heard that WH was about to move in with OW, but that her kids do not want him around. The neighbors heard OW daughter call OW "wh@re" loud enough so everyone in the building could hear. OW told one of the neighbors that WH would have gladly moved in with her but that her kids are against it....well what do you think this will do to the A?
Would it make it more exciting since OW kids make it harder for WH and OW?
It has been almost 11 months of plan B and the A is going strong.
I was re-reading Surviving an A and Dr. Harley says that most A die a natural death after 6 months but very few go for 2 years. I am not sure, but maybe he needs to update that because lots of A seem to go well over 6 months and not too few go over the 2 year mark.
What makes the A end once it is exposed if we are talking about an A (like my WH's) where he believes she is his soul mate and theiy are deeply in love?
blessing
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 01:26 PM
In a dark Plan B .... you should/would not know anything about .... what neighbors say is going on in crud-land.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 01:33 PM
You are totally right...!!
but I guess I am hanging on to any possibility which would make the A look shaky...I do not want to lose hope...I know I am crazy but I still would like to R the M
blessing
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 01:52 PM
You are not crazy.
You are also not doing a very good Plan B.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 02:00 PM
you are right Pepperband, my plan B sucks. I still listen when people tell me about WH and ask more questions to find out more about what he is up to.
There is no justification to what I am doing. I can only say that as days and months go by I am losing hope that WH will ever end the A and/or even think about R the M.
In reading Surviging an A I can only say that Sue and Jon's example might not work in my case as my kid is older and out of the home. So I really do not know what to use to keep my hope alive.
blessing
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 02:13 PM
I did not say "sucks".
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 02:18 PM
I know, I am saying it sucks because it really does. I should not want to know what he is up to, but can you realistically go on for months or years without ever wanting to know?
blessing
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 02:23 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Hi all,
I have been on plan B now for 3 and half months. H never ever tried to contact me. When he did he used the IM and was very to the point.
I see him at work very rarely and never face to face, always from a distance. He never ever tried to come and see me or talk to me. I feel very sad today as I really think is behaviour says that R is impossible. His A with OW is still going but he only sees her for quality time as they do not live together..so he does not have to put up with her kids.
I have exposed to everyone at work and to our parents,sibling etc..As a result, at work, everyone talks to me in a commiserating voice treating me as a victim. Their interactions with my H have not changed and they are kind and polite to him as ever. They have lunch with him and no body has isolated him in any form or manner. My IL do not call me nor interact with me. At Xmas they did not even call to wish me Merry Xmas.
I am close to my 3 sisters in law who are supportive, but they do not bother their brother at all.
I should be feeling better by now, but I do not. It is hard for me not to talk to H and not to be able to see him or call him. It is hurting me more than helping me. I miss my H so much and the jelousy towards OW is not going away.
Please, if any plan B person can offer some words of wisdom I would appreciate it.
blessings

(above quote) Your first post on this "Plan B is too hard" topic. Thu Jan 21 2010 05:23 AM

No one can help you with your struggle.

Quote
I should be feeling better by now, but I do not. It is hard for me not to talk to H and not to be able to see him or call him. I

Because you are still allowing yourself to get WH/OW updates.
If it helped you feel better, no one would care.
But, you always feel worse after allowing an "update".

So, my feelings about your predicament kind of boil down to: "whatever you choose I will respect".

It is what it is. Your variety of Plan B is "too hard" on YOU.
But, it's the choice YOU make.
Not my call.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 02:34 PM
You are 100% right. If I were following a good plan B I would feel better by now. And finding out about WH and OW really does not help ending the A any faster.It probably keeps it alive and well as I am unable to detach.
Often times, I think, when the BS finally detaches and moves on with her life things start to crumble in A land...
blessing
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 02:37 PM
FYI

I am not criticizing you.
I am merely pointing out what "is" is.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 02:41 PM
Thank you Pepperband, I know you are not and if I am unable to do any better is certainly something that, at this point, i can't help.
blessing
Posted By: Lookin4Serenity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 03:10 PM
atena, I don't believe I've posted to you before but we ar eboth in the same pickle. I also had a very poorly executed plan b but lately I've been getting better. i just want to respond to your comment on "wanting to not know". I'm not sure we will ever get to that place but be aware that wanting and doing are 2 separate things. I still want to know what WW is up to but I know deep inside that it will only keep me where I am so whenever I begin to think or feel that way I find myself something else to do or think about. At times I feel like calling someone who would know what WW is up to but I'm aware that at that point in time it's the last person I SHOULD talk to so I call someone who hasn't been involed or knows of the situation. It's hard but you can do it. I agree that getting to the point where you do not want to know would feel like hope is lost but if you ever get there it seems to me it won't matter at that point if you feel hope is gone. Problem is as we stand in the way we currently feel we don't want to lose it. Just wanted you to know you're not alone.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Thank you Pepperband, I know you are not and if I am unable to do any better is certainly something that, at this point, i can't help.
blessing

OK. You can't help it.
From now on, you forfeit your right to complain about the results of your own choices.
That's the price you pay for "I can't help it".
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 03:23 PM
As humans we all complain about the result of our choices...so I am not sure I will not complain again...and this forum is helpful as it is a venting valve...
L4S, thank you for sharing your situation. I appreciated your words, and your too Pepperband, is just that none of us are perfect..
blessing
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 04:30 PM
Reminds me of a saying I heard last week....

"You can always choose your actions, but you CAN'T choose the consequences."
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by atena
As humans we all complain about the result of our choices...so I am not sure I will not complain again...and this forum is helpful as it is a venting valve...

We are our own worst enemies but we can always do better. Right now I do run into XH and PP because of the job situation. It is a choice I made because DD wanted to finish school here and I did not want to disrupt her life anymore than what had happened.

It was tough and devastating at the beginning running into either or both of them. Schoolbus gave me some great tips on how to deal with this and it really helped to build confidence and strength. They are the losers not me. I did not deserve this and everytime I see them they are the uncomfortable ones.

I do stay out of their way and avoid their buildings as much as I can but I have a job to do and I am not going to have them stop me from doing what I have to do.

Is it Plan B absolutely not but I call it Plan P...for Pigs

Blessings.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 08:11 PM
Very few people on this forum have perfect plan Bs. And they still come here and vent or say that they answered that message from WS and shouldn't have done that...
Also the MB idea that most A end within 6 months and at most survive 2 years is to be revised. It gives false hope and expectations.
Dr. Harley should update SA and put new examples; the copyright is from 1998 and I do not think he published an updated version but correct me if I am wrong. He surely must have new statistics and insights since he does this job daily so it would be nice to have an updated version of SA.
I think that with Facebook and all the instant messaging A are impacted and that should be taken into consideration because this modern tachnology allows A to go on undetected for months or years and by the time they are discovered the WS and OP believe they are soul mates and that makes the A so much harder to break.
Just my 2 cents
blessing
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 08:38 PM
Originally Posted by atena
this modern tachnology allows A to go on undetected for months or years and by the time they are discovered the WS and OP believe they are soul mates and that makes the A so much harder to break.

I can't agree with this, because even in those cases where the A has gone UNDETECTED for long periods of time, as soon as it is exposed, in many cases, the A either implodes or the 'romance' of the A is taken away with the reality of families and friends pressures.

atena, in my case, I did not do a stellar plan B until I realized I was hurting myself with contact, and that contact was in no way going to be the thing that brought my WH back.

If contact hurts you, why do it if it can be avoided? (and by contact I even mean getting intel on their relationship from family and friends---I would make it clear to them that you want to know nothing of your WH and his OW)

hug
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 08:39 PM
I have faith in that 2 year guess-timate too but now it has been 27 months with the affairage next month.

Holyhearts H has been in his A for more than 2 years and same as Chai's which is probably closer to 4 years?

If only 3%-6% of these A survive why is it ours?

I believe they will eventually implode and if not they will be in their next "loveless" affairage.

They are not soulmates - just soul-less.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 08:44 PM
thank you Silentlucidity
Quote
the A either implodes or the 'romance' of the A is taken away with the reality of families and friends pressures.

some people are effected by these pressure but some WS seem to be able to insulate themselves very well and I think the fog helps them do that. They litterally do not give a rat's behind about what other people think. That is why I think that there is more to an A that just fantasy and secrecy because not all A die after exposure, if that were to be the case then we could say for sure that fantasy and secrecy are the glue.

blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 08:51 PM
that is my point too. They do last and the WS and OP do develop deep feelings for each other. Maybe soul-less, but to them those feelings are real.
These A are addictions just like alcohol. Alcohlism can go on for years. The high is the payoff for the misery they experience afterwards but as long as OP is around to provide the high this can go on for quite a while.
I think it is more realistical to say that one should expect an A to last up to 5 years.
blessing
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by atena
if that were to be the case then we could say for sure that fantasy and secrecy are the glue.

I agree.

Right now, though, this is immaterial. What is best for you is what matters now that you are in Plan B? Is it best for you to hear about OW and your WH and their lives together? If this information makes you feel better, than by all means, continue with the intel.

People here don't give a hoot about what is happening with your WH and OW because they want for YOU to find peace and to heal as best you can. From our experience, the less contact and intel you have on WH, the better you will be able to move forward in your own life
Quote
Alcohlism can go on for years.

...and you have a choice to remain intertwined in the muck of his addiction, or remove yourself and heal.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 09:04 PM
ok, yes, the important thing is that I move on and not what WH does. However, as time goes by those 6 months....2 years ladmarks stick in one's head and create a sort of expectation that turns into frustration when we see that time goes by and WS is not ending the A.
One does follow MB in the hope to R the M, this is at least my goal.
blessing
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 09:13 PM
Atena, I understand why these statistics give you hope and can equally squash those hopes as time passes. Statistics give you a good idea of what could be, but they in no way rule out something different happening.

It is most important that you find ways of dealing with your own day to day life in a healthy way. Detaching from your WH can be VERY healthy. His actions WILL cause you more and more pain, the more you hear about it.

Originally Posted by atena
One does follow MB in the hope to R the M, this is at least my goal.


Certainly that's why I did! But you are not following MB if you are not completely dark. You are following plan ATENA.

This darkness from your WH is an opportune time to look at yourself

I think your time could be better spent than getting intel on your WH.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 09:21 PM
Yes, you are totally right, there a many more productive things to worry about that what WH is doing. It just hurts to know he loves another.
Ultimately so few people are able to fully recover a M and so few As end in a timely manner so as to save endless pain and suffering.
The wises move is to move on and become a better person and think that pretty much the M is done for given that the A is now well established and still quite strong. If anything, the intel help me to see where WH is in terms of his entaglement with OW and he is pretty deep into it.
Knowing this, even if painful, it prepares me for the next step which will be, hopefully soon, to leave my life as if he will not come back.
All signs and info point to tht outcome,
blessing
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Ultimately so few people are able to fully recover a M and so few As end in a timely manner so as to save endless pain and suffering.

BUT, many people also do not have MB to back them. They just don't know. I honestly believe that MB saved MY sanity, and although things did not happen in MY time, they happened in such a way that MY personal recovery has been so much better.

As for your WH and OW, you really have no idea what they are thinking or feeling inside; you have no idea about those things that lurk in their heads when the spotlight is not on them. You have no idea what the future will bring...the best thing you can do is become strong so that you can face whatever may be.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/02/10 10:39 PM
Atena, I think this has been a lot harder for you because of the continued contact that you had for months of your Plan B. You may have been in a sort of Plan B for most of those months and you have to understand that you will get there.

It is funny. My WH has been out for 8.5 months now. It is unbelievable for me that it has been so long. I have had limited amounts of contact with him. I have done a pretty good Plan B. I have moments when I really want to call him. There are even times when I want to ask people about him. I don't though. I still find out some things and it is like a punch to my gut. I honestly don't want to know about what is going on with WH and OW. It doesn't effect me at all. I kind of live like WH is dead. I make decisions for myself and my children on my own. I don't worry about what WH would think, what he will say. I really don't think about it at all. All I think about is today. Today, my WH isn't home. Does that mean that I have lost all hope? Nope. But to be honest, I jst have my timeline of when I will end my Plan B and change to Plan D. If WH comes to me before that deadline and wants to reconcile, I will try. If he comes to me afterwards, we will see.

My BIL asked me, while we were camping if I thought that WH would come home. I told him that I hoped he would but I didn't really know. Then he asked me what I would do if WH came home and a year into recovery, I found out that WH had been lying the whole time and the A didn't end. I told him that I would simply go back into Plan B.

I don't think that you need to lose hope to do a full on Plan B. I believe that you just have to get your mindset into what is best for you. That would be to get as dark as possible.

So, are you in a place of your own yet? If not, how is the search going? If so, are you excited to paint and decorate it the way you want?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/05/10 07:24 PM
Does anyone know what the best answer is to give people when they tell you: well when a H has not been in love with his wife for a long time it is only natural he will seek another woman.
So many people seem to think this way I am just fed up. I should just ignore them, but I would like them to understand that the love they develop for OW ultimately deprives them of the love they have for their wife...am I wrong?
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/06/10 07:43 PM
This is normal fog babble. XH tried to tell me, family, friends everyone who would listen that our M was dead for 5 years, 12 years, 19 years , from the beginning depending how many rocks he had in his head that day.

Then why didn't they leave 5 years ago, 12 years ago or not gotten M? Because it is plain crap.

It was not till a 'third party' was involved and then they wanted out and rewrote the history of the M.

I just be honest. I say all M go up and down, has your M been perfect; aren't there times when you want to just walk out the door. But I didn't because I loved my XH. You can't make a M work when a third person is in the M and that is what happened to us. Hard to get along when you are traveling on business and a pig slept in your bed.

Don't let it get to you. WE know what happened and you can't educate anyone that has not gone through this.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/06/10 10:29 PM
Atena, many people have warped sense of reality and many of those same people are in a wayward mindset. They have either been in an active affair or have weak boundaries and are likely to have an affair in their future.

You just smile and say to these people, "I believe that if someone is truly unhappy in their marriage, they should try to fix it. If the problem is unable to be fixed then the couple should divorce before anyone moves on to find another person. It's what marriage vows are all about don't ya think?" As long as you say these types of things with confidence and a smile, no one will have a come back. Really, what would they say to that? grin
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 10:31 AM
Thank you for your suggestions.
But, Even my mom thinks my WH has been out of love with me since his first A 6 years ago. She believes that after an A is really hard to fall back in love with the spouse (my dad was a serial cheater so I guess she must talk from experience) and we all know that that is true unless you apply MB principles to your M.
But even to that my mom thinks that you are forcing the matter and that after a person cheated twice I should tell people that..he cheated twice and that he has it in him...and no one should put up with that. I guess she does not want me to end up like her, married to a man who never really loved her.
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 11:27 AM
Atena, I know that it is hard when everyone around you are saying these things to you. They are looking out for you. Only you can make the decision on what you want to do. You KNOW that it IS possible to recover a marriage after infidelity. You KNOW that you two didn't do it right the first time around. All you can do now is focus on YOUR healing.

I know that this is hard. It is hard for me. I had a happy day for the first time yesterday and it was also the first time that I had cried over WH in a week and a half. I let myself cry and afterwards I felt better. It takes a long time for personal recovery. Even if your WH were to come back to you, you would want to be personally recovered so you would set the bar HIGH so you would have a slim chance at a FR. That's what I believe anyways. You need to get yourself strong. And the beauty about it is, of your WH doesn't come home, you will be strong enough for it to not matter.

Take care and focus on healing you. When you know that you are having a down day, seek out things that will make you happy and avoid the things that will make you sad, even if that means not talking to people you will hear these things from. Maybe you need to set some boundaries with people in regards to what you want to hear right now. You have it in you, you just need to uncover it. laugh

Channel some of MelodyLane, Pepperband, Hope, Not, Neak, or Lil and you will be just fine. laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 11:44 AM
Yes, I know what you mean. I am looking forward to a happy day. It will come, I am sure.
It is important I grow strong because as time goes by I need to be able to walk on my two feet and realize my H is gone. I think for some reason, I still imagine him by my side. That is crazy, but true. I have not fully detached and realized he is gone and he is no husband to me any longer.
I can't imagine him falling off love of OW any time soon. I remember when we were first in love, those feelings lasted and then something else came into play, our son, trust, etc.. and we were together 20 years.
I am a firm believer that these A that last more than one year are those that are harder to die because they develop into something more.
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 12:13 PM
I don't analyze why one affair lasts longer than another and why some seem to die at exposure, I just know that it is what it is. It really doesn't do any good for you to analyze his A. There are a few facts about affairs that hold true no matter how long they last. My grandmother married her OM when I was an infant. I always knew that he wasn't my grandfather. They were both raging alcoholics. My grandmother, during a HUGE fight, after she became sober, hit her OM in the head with a cast iron frying pan and he fell down the stairs. She thought he was dead. He wasn't, he woke up with a terrible headache. No one accept him in our family. He was always an outcast. They had a HORRIBLE marriage. 6 months after my grandmother died, her OM died.

What we know about affairs is that they are based on lies and deceit. Even the ones that survive are horrible. Waywards are not relationship material. The "relationships" they have aren't healthy ones. I choose something better.

I don't know if this will help you in your recovery but I think of it as if my WH died when I started Plan B. I just pretend that he is gone, what would my life look like? I would still have to get up and go to work. I would still have to take care of my kids. Life would limp along for a while as I grieved. I would some day feel better. I hope this helps you.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 12:41 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Very few people on this forum have perfect plan Bs. And they still come here and vent or say that they answered that message from WS and shouldn't have done that...
Also the MB idea that most A end within 6 months and at most survive 2 years is to be revised. It gives false hope and expectations.
Dr. Harley should update SA and put new examples; the copyright is from 1998 and I do not think he published an updated version but correct me if I am wrong. He surely must have new statistics and insights since he does this job daily so it would be nice to have an updated version of SA.
I think that with Facebook and all the instant messaging A are impacted and that should be taken into consideration because this modern tachnology allows A to go on undetected for months or years and by the time they are discovered the WS and OP believe they are soul mates and that makes the A so much harder to break.
Just my 2 cents
blessing

Atena, you can email Dr Harley your questions and he will answer them on this radio show, which you can listen to online every day. You also get a free book. Go check out the radio link.

hugs!

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 12:44 PM
If he brodcasts from MN then I am 7 hours ahead. At what time is the radio show? and is his email on the MB site?
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Yes, I know what you mean. I am looking forward to a happy day. It will come, I am sure.Yes, I know what you mean. I am looking forward to a happy day. It will come, I am sure.

atena, that happy day is not going to ever come unless you take some steps to effect it. It can't come against your will. And right now you are preventing that day from coming by clinging to a dead body. You do this by watching him from afar every day. You are triggered every day you see him at school and I suspect you try to get glimpes at the apartment, don't you?

That is doing nothing but hurting you, my friend. It does nothing to get your husband back but does everything to keep you enmeshed in his life from the outside looking in. As long as you are doing that, you can't focus on making your life great.

Remember what we talked about once? Can you envision yourself with a man who loves and respects you? Who would never dream of having female friends? Who made you the most important thing in his life? You can have that, atena. You don't have to sit around and pine for a miserable life with your wayward husband.

You can say to atena: "I have decided I want better for me. I have made a decision to never be a crumb snatcher of life again. I will raise my standards and never settle for less."

You are pining for a dead corpse. A life of misery where you were not valued. You diminish your value as a person by pining for crumbs, atena.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 12:54 PM
Originally Posted by atena
If he brodcasts from MN then I am 7 hours ahead. At what time is the radio show? and is his email on the MB site?
blessing

Go to the MB radio show link at the top of the page. You will send the email to jharley@marriagebuilders.com. I think you would get the radio show at 8:00 pm your time, since it is at 1:00 MN time. Also, if you miss it, they rebroadcast it for 23 hours until the next show, so you don't have to miss it!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 12:56 PM
Are you saying that I pine for crumbs because my WH will never love me again and never has?
What is wrong with me then that he is able to love other women and not me?
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 12:59 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You are pining for a dead corpse. A life of misery where you were not valued. You diminish your value as a person by pining for crumbs, atena.

I say this as someone who KNOWS you and knows that you are a very valuable person. You are pretty, smart, witty, funny, warm and loving. You deserve much better than what you have been treating yourself to.

You wait for your husband to come back. But you forget that he is not acceptable as he is. You would not accept him back as he is, atena! He would not be a suitable husband because he is so wayward.

He does not meet your standards. Because of this, you have the right to reject him and move on.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Are you saying that I pine for crumbs because my WH will never love me again and never has?
What is wrong with me then that he is able to love other women and not me?
blessing

He doesn't love other women. He uses them. He is toxic to any woman because he is wayward. And yes, you are pining for crumbs. There is nothing there. It is not your fault that he does not value women. Not your fault, not your problem.

The bottom line is that YOU cannot value him as he is. He is wayward. He is toxic.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 01:33 PM
I agree that he is toxic and that he is so far gone that I doubt he truly cares about OW. As far as I could tell when I was still investigating, he is using her to get rides, to get sex and for company. And I am sure he keeps a wondering eye.

This is what I have been doing recently to move on:
-I finally finished my master degree, yeheeeeee
-I vacationed with my son in the states for 3 weeks and we only once talked about WH and was very briefly
-Every time someone begins to tell me about WH I stop them and say: please, I am not interested in what he does, we have been separated for a year now.
-I do not inquire about him
-I rarely see him at school and when I do I turn my head towards the nearest wall. I do not register any emotion presence (and believe me, my heart used to beat fast and I would become all red)
-I no longer observe him from afar when he has lunch
-If I go to the apartment and run into OW I have the same reaction as when I ran into WH. Total indifference and no emotions
I have been practicing this only for 2 weeks, but it is already working well. I reached a point that doing the above was the only way to have a decent day and not one where every minute was taken by thoughts of my WH and OW.
I am not saying I am not hoping he comes back, however, I would NOT take him back as he is and he will have to show me a dramatic shift of personality and values and be willing to do xy and z with MB in order to R the M.
I am a family person and love my son and would like to rebuild a M according to family values and love and joy.
However, I am fully aware that my WH, as he is and as he has been for many years now, is not the right person for me and for my values.
He has no integrity and has a huge sense of entitlement. He is addicted to thrills and teen age love and has a lot of growing up to do. He hurts people, knows he is doing it and can still walk with his head high just as if he is doing something perfectly normal.
I know I deserve better, but 20 years together and lots of goods stuff are hard to cancel. But I am on a serious quest now and once I put something in my head I can be very determined. And I have finally put it in my head that what goes on in my WH life I do not care about. I do not want to know and would not want to be part of his life right now even if he asked me to.
thank you for your support!
blessing

Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 03:53 PM
atena,

Sounds like you have a good list of priorities. Keep it up and you will find yourself feeling better with each passing day. hurray

You will still think about WH, you will still think about what could be if your WH would just wake up and get it. Heck, I still have thoughts about WxH waking up to humility; it would be great for my son if his dad got it, so that he could better advise his son in the travails of life. sigh

Plan B helped me to move on, it helped me to recover from the destruction, and even now continues to help me maintain my sanity as a single mom, because I do not have interaction with WxH. We ONLY discuss DS--that's all.

I hope that you find peace in Plan B because it can do wonders for you. hug

Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 04:58 PM
Understand that this will take you a lot longer to get through with all of the contact you have. Every time I even think about my WH, it triggers a bunch of thoughts and feelings and the what ifs. That is why I try to impress on people so often to try to have NO CONTACT. Give yourself some time to get through this and KNOW that you WILL get better. Just make some changes whenever you notice you need a nudge. Small changes really do add up to a lot when you add it all together.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/07/10 07:47 PM
thank you!
I am truly determined to be as dark as possible. I was doing it all wrong but was not ready to make the resolution I made now.
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/08/10 01:07 AM
Atena, just stopping in to say Hi and tell say you can do this.

We both see our waywards at work and have the dishonor of seeing the OW also. Schoolbus gave me the best advice that when I see either of them to smile (not at them) and if I am with someone to laugh, lift my head up. It confuses them by confidence.

Congrats on getting your masters. whoa whoa. I got mine 4 years ago and it is a great achievement.

What now?

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/08/10 01:57 PM
atena, I found a post written by Dr Harley over on the weekend forum to a woman in a similar position:

Quote
About 95% of affairs die a natural death within 2 years of discovery. And 70% of those 5% that survive to marriage end in divorce. Even the 30% of the 5% (1.5%) are not all happy marriages. So the odds of your husband finding happiness with his present lover is so unlikely that it's safe to say that his affair is the worst mistake of his life. But because you're married to him, it's the worst mistake of your life, too. And you didn't do anything to deserve it.

Your best plan of action right now is plan B. And you will have to make it air-tight to keep you sane. Otherwise, every casual contact, even at your children's events, is likely to take a terrible toll on your mental and physical health.

Some day, your husband may come out of the fog. And he may be ready to win you back to him again. But I would encourage you to avoid hoping for that outcome. In fact, try to avoid thinking of him at all. Start going down a new path that does not include him in any way. There's nothing more that you can do to encourage him to do the right thing. All you're left with now is to try to protect yourself from future suffering. And that means having absolutely nothing to do with your husband, possibly for the rest of your life.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/08/10 05:00 PM
"There's nothing more that you can do to encourage him to do the right thing.
All you're left with now is to try to protect yourself from future suffering.
And that means having absolutely nothing to do with your husband, possibly for the rest of your life."



Just repeating ...
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/08/10 05:39 PM
Quote
So the odds of your husband finding happiness with his present lover is so unlikely that it's safe to say that his affair is the worst mistake of his life. But because you're married to him, it's the worst mistake of your life, too. And you didn't do anything to deserve it.

And, for some reason I think that when the WS leaves you for OP he then becomes so focused on making the A work that he forces himself to see in OP only the few the qualities she might have, because if he were to see the reality of it he would have to admit he made a mistake. So I think WS work hard to keep their fantasy going even when the fantasy starts to crumble. Had they put the same amount of effort in the M, they would have a very happy M.

Quote
There's nothing more that you can do to encourage him to do the right thing. All you're left with now is to try to protect yourself from future suffering. And that means having absolutely nothing to do with your husband, possibly for the rest of your life.

I know for a fact that the WS tries to make us look unreasonable to the eyes of family and friends by saying that out total NC with them is ridiculous and it would be so much easier on everyone, especially the kids, if we remained friends.
Well I ain't doing that!
blessing
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/08/10 05:53 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Well I ain't doing that!

Atena,
Look back over the last two weeks at your posts. You seem to be much more focused on yourself this week, than wallowing in what is to come of WH and OW's relationship. I know you probably still think on it often, but your priorities seem to be shifted to healing yourself. This is fantastic....the lack of contact with WH and OW is doing it's magic. Keep it up hurray
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/08/10 06:17 PM
Yes, I am determined...and I am very thick. But once I get something in my head I will not budge.
I have decided now that, after a year, I deserve better than the misery of looking into my WH filthy A and pine after him.
He turned into another person and he is with another person.
I need to care for myself and that means moving one without him.
I truly do not want to know what he is doing and who he is doing it with.
I want to know nothing about him and his life. Not a thing.
And I go out of my way to avoid him at work and to avoid seeing him around.
I do feel much better since I came to this resolution.
Thank you for your support guys and gals. I could not be where I am today without MB!
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/14/10 06:55 PM
My FIL just skyped me. It surprized me cuz he never did nor was he in contact with me for a while.
he asked me why I cut all contact with WH. He said that all I am doing is driving him more in OW arms as he is now alone and she represents the only anchor to him and he spends all of his time with her.
I said, politely, that i would rather not talk about it as the wound is still raw. He said he understands and that he just needed to say it to me so I start thinking about it.
I thanked him but did not give in...
I am proud of myself
However...could he be right, that with NC with WH I am actually driving him more and more into OW's arms as he spends all his time with her. Wouldn't that create a strong bond?
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/14/10 07:56 PM
Yes, it does drive him into her arms, but that is so he has to get all his needs met by her...no more cake eating...reality sets in and her true colors are more likely to come out the more they are together. They cant blame you when things are not going well for them...which we know that they LOVE to blame the BS for all their misery.

NC is also to protect you...if you stay in contact you will NEVER get over him or his LBing will drive YOU away and you will lose all the love you have left for him if he wants to come back. The wayward always sneak in their little snide remarks and hurt and blame you for the A.

It is torture to be smack in the middle of his A. Its really the best choice. Its less pain for us all around...Still Pain I know, but less.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/14/10 09:27 PM
Atena, I had that conversation in my brain so many times that I became a ping-pong table.

XH has isolated himself from everyone but PP and her family and friends. Of course they tell him anything that he wants to believe. I can't change those lies.

Unless your WH has left the OW and starts to come out of the fog, it will be talking to a wall or a rock.

In the beginning I tried to reason with XH and it was as if Elvis had left the building. I talked to him thinking of him as my H but he was already PP's A partner.

You can only protect yourself because if you did try and break NC you will only be disappointed.

Schoolbus wrote something on a thread about when you know a wayward comes out of fog. It said something about them screaming louder to complain about the OP. I wish I could find it. If I get a chance later I will look for it.

Blessings.
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/14/10 09:32 PM
Originally Posted by atena
However...could he be right, that with NC with WH I am actually driving him more and more into OW's arms as he spends all his time with her. Wouldn't that create a strong bond?
blessing

Atena, you are not driving your WH anywhere. You have removed yourself as a choice for him and so he is going to go down the path of least resistance...with OW. She will now have to meet all of his EN's. You will not be OW's foil anymore. OW will have all the pressure on her. You won't be causing them anymore problems, so you can't be to blame for THEIR problems, and there will be problems...

Even if they stay together, you will have removed yourself, protected yourself and given yourself time to move forward. Try try try to treat the situation as if your WH no longer exists.

Also, do you see what happens when contact occurs, even indirectly. Your FIL talks to you ABOUT WH and it triggers you back to fear. Tell your relatives that you want NO information or conversations about WH. For the longest time, whenever I even discussed WH, it triggered me.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/15/10 01:03 PM
Thank you for your posts!
I guess my WH and I were emotionally distant already a year prior to our separation so my WH had already most of his needs met by OW namely: sex, companionship, conversation, admiration.
I was providing family needs and partially some financial security as well as social status (he lost face at work and socially after the A came out) but he has an all new set of friends now. HOwever, at work he lost face.
Nevetheless....who knows how this will turn out. My deal is to keep dark. I could not prevent FIL from skyping me but I did stop him when he wanted to talk about WH and our situation.
I can see that FIL does not want 20 years of M to go down the drain and he cares a lot about our son.
He might also be fearful about OW. WH and I live in a foreign country overseas and he knows OW is 15 years younger, has a pacemaker, is divorced with 2 problematic kids...who knows what scenarios go on in my FIL's mind.... but I do not care to find out...
FIL liked me a lot and I am sure he is sad about losing me.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/15/10 08:10 PM
I am sorry I always come here to vent...and it is the usual story, nothing new.
I just get triggered even if someone mentions my WH name. I just go into a funk and start thinking and thinking about why why why he would invest so much into OW.
Love messages to her (he never sent me any) time spent with her, romantic stuff he never did with me...
WHat does she have that I do not have???
I will never get over this...never....I need to lighten my heart..it has been more than 2 years (and this without counting the pain of his first A).
I should hate this man, I should be soooo over him...but I am not....
I know you told me all there is to tell me...
I appreciate you listening to my rant...
blessing
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/15/10 08:34 PM
I hope you can correlate how this contact with FIL about WH is hurting you.

You are back to obsessing thinking of WH and OW. The what if's the why not with me's.

You will get over this. Get darker. Right now, I don't even think you can talk about WH without triggering. It's actually quite normal, the reaction you are having. You went pretty dark about a week or so ago. You may be experiencing your own withdrawal.

You will get over this, past this and into something new. You will.

We may have told you all the logistical stuff, Atena, but support is what you need now. Support to stay dark, to not contact WH and to draw firm boundaries with those around you about WH, including information about him and urging you to change your plan.

Hang in there, Atena hug
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/15/10 08:46 PM
I guess people (FIL) find ways to make me feel guilty for plan B. I know is the only way to go. If I were to be in contact with WH I would be dead by now.
Why, in my head, I cannot admit to myself that WH is not longer the man I married? Why do I think OW might be actually a nice person otherwise why would my WH love her so much...
I think I am as messed up as they are...
but I think you are right...I am going thru withdrawal finally and that might be the pain of gettin past it.
blessing
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/15/10 08:57 PM
Give yourself time, atena. May not be what you want to hear, but time to experience withdrawal and time for your heart to catch up with your head.

Take good care of yourself. Get up and get out when you can. Make sure you pamper yourself in your free time, exercise, read/watch something funny, find ways to LAUGH as often as possible.

Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/15/10 09:16 PM
Hi Atena, best place is to vent here because it is safe.

Triggers will be less as time goes on. I talk to my SIL weekly. She lives in another country. Our informal rule is that we do not bring up XH. We talk about our lives, her nieces, everything. I know she is worried about him with his weight gain and lifestyle but we chose not to discuss it.

I want her in my life and we always say we will always be SIL. The terms are just different.

I know how difficult it is for you but you can and you are doing this.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/16/10 01:07 PM
I am in good terms with my SIL too. She is my family and she said she will not let her brother destroy our relationship.
I have been praying now for over a year, every day, for the higher power to R my M. I will not stop praying.
If I ask I will receive and if I keep knocking at the door the door will open.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/24/10 03:07 PM
When does LB start for the A? If OW and WH do not live together will they ever get into the LB scene?
How can everything be so perfect for them to want to be with one another...? Is it the sex that is so good for a long time? Or is it that WH really does not see what OW is all about?
crazy...
blessing
Posted By: Mulan Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/24/10 04:24 PM
atena: I know you desperately want your marriage back. Yet you are doing the one thing that practically guarantees that you will never get it back:

You are still dangling at the end of WH's string, begging and whining for crumbs like a pathetic puppy. WH knows this. To him, that's all you are: a sad and pathetic little creature begging and begging for a tiny bit of his time.

Nobody respects a person like that. And WH can't love you when he doesn't respect you. THAT is what is killing even the 1% chance you have of restoring your marriage.

He will never respect you as long as he knows you will wait for him forever like a pitiful little puppy at the door. Why should he? Your behaviour is weak and helpless and sad. Nobody respects that.

Respect comes first. Love follows respect.

So: How could you earn back even a shred of WH's respect?

By REALLY doing a Plan B. If you were in a genuine Plan B, you would not be asking questions like you did in your above post because YOU WOULD NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT WH AND OW.

You want even a shred of respect from WH? Then go pitch black and live your life in a way that makes it clear that you ARE strong and you ARE capable and you CAN live without him if you must. THAT is how you start to earn respect from somebody. THAT is how you become attractive.

Honey, I know how you feel. I sure wish my XWH would come back, too - the real H, not the monster addict he turned into. But I have not seen his face or heard his voice or contacted him in anyway for well over two years. I know he's still in our city, but I don't know his address. I know virtually nothing about what he does and everybody is under strict orders to tell me nothing.

If he ever pulled his head out and became my H again, sure, I'd talk to him. But not before. Until then, I remain pitch-black to him and I have lawyers and bankers taking care of the legal and financial fallout from the divorce. They contact him. I don't.

I don't have anything else from XWH, but I'll bet there's a least a half a shred of respect for me in there somewhere. And that's where it has to start.

I wish you could understand that. It would end much of your suffering *and* it is the only thing that would ever in a million years give you a chance of reconciling.
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/24/10 05:35 PM
Sounds like you have been in contact with your WH, atena. Not good. You are just continuing to hurt yourself.

I completely agree with what Mulan has so eloquently said to you. You are being a doormat, and your WH is happily rubbing his dirty boots all over you.

What's really crazy? You continuing to obsess over WH and OW. FIND SOMETHING TO OCCUPY YOUR TIME! Get on with living YOUR life. You give away your power so easily, atena.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/24/10 07:33 PM
Originally Posted by silentlucidity
Sounds like you have been in contact with your WH, atena. Not good. You are just continuing to hurt yourself.

I completely agree with what Mulan has so eloquently said to you. You are being a doormat, and your WH is happily rubbing his dirty boots all over you.

What's really crazy? You continuing to obsess over WH and OW. FIND SOMETHING TO OCCUPY YOUR TIME! Get on with living YOUR life. You give away your power so easily, atena.

I would have quoted Mulan's post too because it was AMAZING.

You need to stop obsessing about what WH and OW are doing. That is NOT MB. You need to redirect your thoughts. Did you see your WH at all this week? Did someone tell you something? Because seriously, you shouldn't know that your WH and OW aren't fighting. You can't obsess about these things. They are in a "relationship" and that is all that matters right now. Your H is GONE. WH is in his place and he is NOT the man you love. He looks like him and he talks with his voice but the words he says and the actions are not HIM. Please, for YOU, go into the darkest Plan B EVER. You are harming only yourself. Even if you haven't had some direct contact, something happened for you to get to the point where you made that post.

Did you ever read the part on my thread about the loonie jar? I was obsessively thinking about my WH and I needed to get out of it real quick. Pep suggested that every time that I thought about my WH, I put a loonie(dollar coin) in a pickle jar. Then at the end of the week, I would use that money to do something fun with the kiddos. I was AMAZED by how much I put in that jar in the first few days. I still think about WH at times, but it is no where near obsessive. I haven't really done the loonie jar in a few months, maybe it's time to start again. Good Luck.
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/24/10 09:23 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
You are harming only yourself. Even if you haven't had some direct contact, something happened for you to get to the point where you made that post.

I think there was a stretch of about two weeks where it seemed atena was taking the power back, over her thoughts and actions. In her last couple of posts, I see backsliding, which screams contact. Like you said, Scotland, it's either direct OR indirect. Since her FIL called. Sounds like she got a taste of the drama drug.

When I was in Plan B I was advised by Mimi, who did a super excellent dark Plan B AND recovered her M, to treat the situation AS IF my husband was dead. I have run with that concept ever since. Even when we exchange emails about DS, I act as if XH is just the other parent to my DS, not connected to me in any other way. It's all business. I get snippets of info about his life with his newest gal de year thru DS. It no longer affects me much.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/25/10 12:44 AM
I also act as though my WH is dead. There are times that it sneaks in though. Even knowing that he is outside of my house to pick up or drop off the kids hurts me sometimes. I have to MAKE myself NOT look at him. There are even weak moments that I want to break Plan B. I think it would be easier. I wonder if it would get him to come back. Then I remember that for the past 11 months, I have believed in MB. I have FAITH that this is the best for me, personally if not maritally. It is the best place I could be and all I want for others is to get to that same place. laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/25/10 07:01 AM
Thank you for your posts. However this one by Mulan I found quite disrespectful of the BS....

Quote
You are still dangling at the end of WH's string, begging and whining for crumbs like a pathetic puppy. WH knows this. To him, that's all you are: a sad and pathetic little creature begging and begging for a tiny bit of his time.

I have not spoken to WH for a year now. I do not follow him nor spy on him. So how would he know I am begging and whining....
If I run into him at work I do not even look at him. I turn the other way or treat him as if he were invisible....
Quote
Nobody respects a person like that. And WH can't love you when he doesn't respect you. THAT is what is killing even the 1% chance you have of restoring your marriage.

WH is in no condition to love anybody being the wayward he is. I do not need his respect because I do not respect him. As far as my chances to R the M...I do not know about %s.
Quote
So: How could you earn back even a shred of WH's respect?
AND!!!!!
Quote
You want even a shred of respect from WH?

Maybe the question should be, how could WH earn MY respect back!!!!!!!!!
Quote
Your behaviour is weak and helpless and sad.

My behaviour towards him is indifferent and I do not show him any weakness. I come to this forum, like many others who are not in perfect plan Bs, for support and help.
Blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/25/10 07:17 AM
((((((Atena)))))) I know your pain....all to well....Hang in there, K?
Posted By: Mulan Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/25/10 05:02 PM
Quote
Maybe the question should be, how could WH earn MY respect back!!!!!!!!!

As I tried to tell you above, he doesn't care about having YOUR respect because in his mind, you are not worthy of HIS respect. He knows perfectly well that you would take him back anytime and will wait forever for him like a helpless puppy. He doesn't need or want the respect of a woman like that. It's cruel, but it's true.

You must do two things, if you want to put a stop to your suffering and have the slightest of chances to earn back your WH's respect (and therefore leave the door open to having him love you once again):

GET A NEW JOB. Seeing him in the workplace in absolutely killing you. This has to stop. You are only feeling worse and worse and worse, and therefore WH only disdains and pities you more and more and more. And your chances of earning his respect continue to go down and down and down.

Do a REAL Plan B. You should know NOTHING about what your WH is doing. Nobody should be telling you anything. WH should be 100% invisible to you.

You cannot control what WH does or thinks or feels, atena. It has to start with you.

Your "plan b" has only brought you terrible suffering and earned you the disdain and dismissal of your WH and his OW.

Try a *real* Plan B and see what happens. I mean, what have you got to lose? How is YOUR "plan b" helping anything?
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/25/10 05:09 PM
But, atena, it is NOT a perfect plan B if you are SEEING your WH regularly. You don't seem to see the correlation between contact and your increased pain.

Perhaps you could keep a journal. You would be able to review what has happened in a weeks time and see if contact has triggered you. I would bet that it IS affecting you and keeping you in a very bad space. You are not in Plan B if your WH sees you regularly.

If Mulan's post hits a nerve, it's probably because some of it rings true. You see, your mindset is very important, and right now, you are obsessing, and in a negative, woe is me the waywards are winning space. Keep in mind that Mulan IS doing a very dark Plan B....midnight. I have seen her posts progress from obsessive, to depressed, to angry to a place that is reaching indifference. She has a lot to offer, if you would only listen.

Atena, how do you know these personal things about WH and OW?

Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/25/10 11:01 PM
I agree, you are not in a real plan B if you are seeing your husband at work.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 06:27 AM
atena just {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}

You can do this. that's it. take care
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 04:28 PM
Hi all and thank you for your posts!
I appreciate Mulan�s insights don�t get me wrong. I guess it does strike a cord and that means I have to take that into consideration.

I am sorry this post is going to be long,but I feel I need to update you on a few things and also about some cultural aspects of Italy that are not at all like the US.
MB works well in Anglo-Saxon countries where job mobility and availability is easy.
Where relocating and finding a home is easy.
Not here in Italy.

OK here I go. I have been out of my marital home since Oct 1 2009. I had to move back in a week ago or so.I will explain why.
During this past year I lived with a friend for 3 weeks. With another friend (Eva) for 3 months except for Xmas when me and my son (who was visiting from the states) had to move and live with some other friends for 2 weeks. I then moved back in with Eva till her H came back from abroad.

I was then homeless and stayed in a hotel for 3 days till I rented a place for 7 months. The rent and half of the mortgage I still had to pay for the marital home depleted my financial resources without counting that I was into a very intense master program and working full time.

My energy and my money were hitting rock bottom. All the moving around drove me insane. The place I rented for 7 months had plumbing problems which culminated in water dripping on my bed. That is when I decided I had enough and moved back to the marital home.

I also just got a job promotion with a significant pay increase due to me having a master now. Yes, I work in the same spot as WH but here in Italy finding a job equivalent to what I have now is close to impossible.
So I have some questions:
Quote
GET A NEW JOB. Seeing him in the workplace in absolutely killing you. This has to stop. You are only feeling worse and worse and worse, and therefore WH only disdains and pities you more and more and more. And your chances of earning his respect continue to go down and down and down.

I do not show WH how I feel. I look great, I am cheerful and people like me, I smile and I am in a good mood. I never talk about WH with anybody and if they do bring him up I say: we are separated now I am not interested in what he does, I am actually happier without him.
I just got a job promotion which increased my status in the work place.

So on what basis would WH disdain and pity me? I just do not get it. Most people at work disdain and pity him for what he has done. In fact the boss did not hire him for a position he was hoping to get. I bet lots of it had to do with his waywardness as the boss knows about it ( I told her) and she is also a victim of betrayal herself.

I have the respect of my colleagues and if he does not respect me it is because he is in love with OW and the addiction to her makes me look unworthy. After all he picked her over me. At the stage where he is now (deep in fog) I could do cartwheels and look like Cindy Crawford, but, as we all know, a WS has only eyes for OP�.and my WH is no exception.

Quote
Do a REAL Plan B. You should know NOTHING about what your WH is doing. Nobody should be telling you anything. WH should be 100% invisible to you.

I truly know nothing about him. I no longer investigate and I do not want to know what he is up to. The question I asked about when LB starts in the A was just hypothetical. I do not even know if OW and WH are still together. But I can bet my underwear they still are. I can feel it and WH has not contacted me for a year.

One thing is for sure. I still hope for my WH to want to R the M, but I see that no matter what (dark or light plan B) after a while the odds go down considerably.

blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 05:02 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I truly know nothing about him. I no longer investigate and I do not want to know what he is up to. The question I asked about when LB starts in the A was just hypothetical. I do not even know if OW and WH are still together. But I can bet my underwear they still are. I can feel it and WH has not contacted me for a year.

ok, Atena, this post makes it sound like your Plan B has been dark as night, when it hasn't. You glimpse your H almost every day at work and now you have moved back into your apartment that is next door to the OW. So now you get to see your H and the OW together every time he visits her. This means your H is not only top of mind all week at work, but now he is top of mind on the weekends.

When you lived elsewhere, you went to that apartment often to "get things" and were continually triggered and devastated when you saw them together.

Atena, I am your friend and you know this. So I say this as your friend who cares about you. But you have set up your life in a way that ensures almost daily contact wtih your H. You don't even TRY to change that. You don't bother to look for a new job, you told me last week to tell your H to take your apartment off the market. So, you can't say you don't have choices when you don't TRY.

I don't believe you have taken Plan B seriously since you always have some excuse about why you can't completely go dark. You put alot of energy into finding excuses why you can't cut off contact completely; what if you put the same energy into actually ENDING contact?

Why not put all that energy into finding creative ways to avoid contact instead of finding excuses why you have to see him?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I am sorry this post is going to be long,but I feel I need to update you on a few things and also about some cultural aspects of Italy that are not at all like the US.
MB works well in Anglo-Saxon countries where job mobility and availability is easy.
Where relocating and finding a home is easy.
Not here in Italy.

It is especially hard when you don't do anything to find another job and home. What have you ever done to find another job? Several months ago you said you couldn't do it because you were getting your masters. Now you have your masters and there is a new excuse.

As far as getting a new place, why did you tell me to tell your H to take the apartment off the market? That just makes it impossible to get a new place.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 05:09 PM
You have arranged your life in a way that ENSURES you will be triggered DAILY by your H and the OW. That is your doing, atena. Something over which you have control but have never assumed.

You are not an endentured servant who is held hostage by that school in Italy. Nor do you have to live right next door to the OW.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 05:16 PM
I can always rent this place out and I will especially if WH does not agree to the conditions under which I will then agree to sell the house. I do not want to put too much info here because who knows..my WH could be reading this.

I do not see OW. She must have moved in with him or decided not to live in her home any longer. She is not here. WH never comes here so I do not see him but at work. When I see him at work it is not daily. It could be once a week and for a second.
I just do not agree with Mulan when she says that pities me when he sees me. That is non sense. He is the one pitied, and he is the one who should move and end the shame he has brought upon himself. I have done nothing. I can keep my head high.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 05:24 PM
atena, you still see him at work and you may very well see him and the OW at the apartment as you have in the past. My point is that you have really done next to nothing to ensure all contact is ended. And now you have taken your apartment off the market and added new conditions to the sale.

That apartment keeps you connected to him.

What are you doing to separate your lives, atena? Everything you have done so far has temporary and tentative. You have a 1000 reasons why you can't end contact. Why not search for ways you can end contact?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 06:01 PM
I just do not understand how NC will get my WH back to me. At the point where we are right now I do not call him, contact him nor spend time with him. This is what he wanted. He wanted to be free to see OW and he is. I do not see what more separation than this will bring...
In terms of the house: I just want what is right for my son. I just do not what to allow him to destroy us even more, so if I can get him to agree to give it all to our son then I feel I have gotten something to compensate all the pain and lies and deceit he has put us thru.
I do not have to contact him but thru lawyers, real estate agents etc...just as all the other people on a dark plan B.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 06:43 PM
NC will help YOU atena...it will help you to stop ruminating about what he is doing and everytime you see him its a trigger.....
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 06:44 PM
Just because you do not understand how something could work does not mean it doesn't work, atena.

Plan B is also about preserving the small amount of love you have for your husband, and the more you are exposed to his waywardness, the more you bear witness to his cruelty, the more indifferent you will become until you do not want to recover your marriage.

So, if you DON'T want to recover, then continue contact, by all means. I know for sure that the more dark you are, the more interested the wayward becomes in what his BS is up to. YOU become the mystery, YOU become the person that he wonders about.

If you want the home then let the lawyers do that fighting.

Our concern is for you, atena.
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 07:02 PM
The number one priority in Plan B
is
your
peace of mind.

That it is the best chance to recover your marriage one day is a plus

but

it is so that

you, Atena

can be okay with it all either way.

You don't let that wayward guy take up space in your thoughts more than minimal consideration as you build your own future.

He may not be part of it. He possibly could. Don't know.

Dark from your side in your mind is for you.

I know you will get that soon. The alternative is more sorrow than you need bear.

Hugs
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 07:03 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I just do not understand how NC will get my WH back to me.

No contact is not and never has been to "get him back." It is to enable you to withdraw from him and get away from his abusive affair.

Quote
In terms of the house: I just want what is right for my son. I just do not what to allow him to destroy us even more, so if I can get him to agree to give it all to our son then I feel I have gotten something to compensate all the pain and lies and deceit he has put us thru.

This is a brand new condition that you suddenly sprang on him - out of nowhere - that just keeps you tied to him and prevents you from selling the house. How does it help your son for his mother to be beaten down emotionally by her continued contact with his abusive father?

Quote
I do not have to contact him but thru lawyers, real estate agents etc...just as all the other people on a dark plan B.
blessing

But you are not limiting your contact to lawyers, real estate agents. You live next door to the OW, with no plan in sight to change that and you see your H at work.

Atena, what are you doing, friend?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by atena
. I just do not what to allow him to destroy us even more


I don't believe this. You have done everything in your power to KEEP some sort of contact at every turn. Every time you see him it tears you down more and more. I know what happens when you see him.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 08:08 PM
I have tried, as described in my other posts, to not live in the marital home. I have done so for a WHOLE YEAR so it not that I did not give it the best shot. Saying that I did not try is disheartening.
I simply could no longer afford it and for what I could pay..the places where dumps.

Melody, It helped to remind me that my WH is abusive. Just because someone does not beat you up it does not mean he is not abusive. He is an abuser. I have to keep repeating that to myself because I often forget.
My dad used to beat me and my first boy friend used to beat me.
Then I met my WH and he never lay hand on me....but he had another way to abuse me. Gaslighting and multiple cheating.
But since that leaves no visible bruises we discount it. Plus my WH is a real charmer and a very polite, nice person (on the outside) so he can easily fool people...me included.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 08:41 PM
It is definitely abuse.....When I first went to my phsycologist she suggested I go to HAWC meetings, which is for abused woman and children...I said to her why he never laid a hand on me?...She said that the emotional abuse I had been put through was just as bad as physical abuse.

I was almost the same as you....Every boyfriend I ever had physically abused me, it was like I went for them....WH never laid a hand on me and he completely destroyed me emotionally.....Atena, its hard but we will get through this.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 08:45 PM
Yes, it is abuse. A psychologist told me WH knows he is hurting me but he does not know he magnitude of his hurting. Basically he thinks "yes atena suffers from this, but in a way she deserves it because she made me so unhappy".
In no way he is aware of the suffering he inflicts on me. That is according to this psychologist. I don't buy it.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 08:48 PM
I just think, at this point, they dont care how bad they are hurting us....They know but, they put it out of their mind. They just want what they want and dont care who it hurts...
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 08:59 PM
Plus, as I am now, in no way he would guess in how much pain I still am. If you saw me at work you would say I am the happiest person on earth. Everyone at work compliments me on my looks and on my attitude. My son tells WH i am doing great. So in no way WH would know he is still hurting me by continuing his A.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 09:08 PM
Yeah, but I think thats a good thing because obviously he doesnt care if he is hurting you....I really think that most of the time they only start caring if the affair breaks up or we have moved on and found someone knew....
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 09:17 PM
yes, I agree. IF the A breaks up then the fog lifts. But in re-reading SAA for the 5th time, I am convinced that the A is really hard to break.
After all they left BS for OP and in doing so they gave it some thought. They decided OP was superior to BS.
Even if they try to break it up, they go back together not much later with renewed vigor. This can go on for quite a while. The addiction is bad and the proximity does not help.
Even if I had someone else now, my WH would not care. I am sure. I think the end of the A is the only way for them to get out of the fog. But after exposure has been done, as I have, there is little else to do to break it. It is out of our hands.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 09:22 PM
Yeah, it is out of our hands...sadly.
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/26/10 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I think the end of the A is the only way for them to get out of the fog. But after exposure has been done, as I have, there is little else to do to break it. It is out of our hands.

and that is why Dr. Harley suggests Plan B for those who still want a chance to recover. It gives you a safe place to be while the affair continues on. It does not in any way guarantee that your spouse will come back to you, even if the affair ends, but it gives you the best chance to heal.

You are assuming a lot when you say that the WS thought of the BS when they left for the OP. I would say that the WS was only thinking of themselves.

Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/27/10 05:09 AM
Atena, just catching up.

Congrats on your promotion. It is good you remained focused on your job and you were recognized.

No words of advice but you are in my thoughts and prayers.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 12:03 PM
Ok, I know I am going to get a 2x4 because I moved back to the marital home and OW is the neighbor living downstairs....but I still need to ask this question because I feel that I might help break up the A.
Last night I had just arrived home and was climbing the stair when I heard fighting and loud voices. The other neighbor came out of their appartments asking eachother what was going on.
Well it was OW fighting with her daughter. She was telling her that she was an idiot and that if she did not get her grades up and ended up failing again she will just have to live with very serious consequences. She continued yelling at her daughter and calling her names. The daughter was yelling back and at one point said: "mom you speak for yourself and stop calling me names. You are a wh@re, you are revolting...everybody says it! How can you leave my brother and neglet me just to be with your boyfriend. You care more about him than your kids and that is wrong. Plus he wanted to move in and you would let him, but I do not want his dead body in here!!!" At that point OW must have shushed her because no more screaming or yelling was heard.
OK...the A can't be a bed of roses, but I am sure OW does not tell WH about those fights even if he must know he can't move in because of her daughter.
OW's daughter, I am sure, was told that OW and WH hooked up because I kicked WH out of the house and then they fell in love later. I am sure OW's daughter will not be that happy to know that her wh@re mom was doing my WH while we were still living together as a family with my son.
Should I tell her? At this point I have nothing to lose.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 01:27 PM
I wont be the one to give you the 2 by 4s......(((atena))) you are killing yourself with this....but anyway how old is the D? I always thought to myself when my WHs OW son turned 18 that I was gonna make sure he knew about his mother, because I am sure he doesnt know the truth...I just didnt want the OW saying I harrassed her kids or sumthing....but I figured when he is 18 he wont be a kid anymore....he is 16 now.

I know that I am probably doing it for the wrong reasons, I think...I dont know if it is just for vengeance at this stage of the game or if it will actually do anything to break the A...I would tell her, but wait to see what the vets say...My wounds might be a little to fresh to be objective.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 01:37 PM
The daughter is 15, smokes, wears very revealing clothes and has a boyfriend she takes home.
OW's voice was vicious last night, she really revealed herself for what she truly is.
The thing is...my WH is so fogged up he just can't see her for what she is...she is pure fantasy. Plus he does not bother with her kids that much...I guess because they do not like him.
But all these obstacles coming from her kids could actually make the A more exciting for my H....
who knows.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 01:42 PM
OW sounds like a witch...he will realize eventually that she is, but we dont know when that will be, ya know?...Who knows what goes on in their brainless heads...
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 01:57 PM
WH and OW do not have much in their brain. WH is without transportation so she drives him places and does house calls, basically she is all over him.
I am just glad to see there is conflict in OW's family related to her A and I am also glad to see that even her shanky daughter has more sense than her.
I am not sure if telling more to OW's daughter will not backfire on me as the little girl is pretty silly so you never know how they take this stuff. Pluse WH and OW will have one reason more to demonize me and that will make the A stronger.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 01:59 PM
Right, you have a good point...it might backfire...
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 02:06 PM
I got a glipse into the A to see what a mess it creates not only for my family but also for the OW's family and kids. With both of her kids fully negletted, especially the little boy who is now in custody of her XH and his OW...I can only imagine the suffering that little kids is going thru, he was already disturbed to begin with.
I can only pray for g-d to open their brain and stop inflicting pain on others.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 02:10 PM
I know, its sad really. All the destruction, for what?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 02:16 PM
I really do not know....I just think that WH must have been truly unhappy with me to prefer a situation like that.. however he only deals with her on an ideal basis, away from her drama and her kids. He just sees her for lovemaking and travelling and does not share the daily grind with her. In that respect he is much happier with her because of that...no responsibilities, no pressure, plenty of admiration, sex and companionship...
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 02:23 PM
Its the same situation with my WH....
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 02:29 PM
Yes, as long as they have it this way there is no way in telling when the A will end. Eventually OW will be so burned out by her kids and by WH being so selfish ...but she is so in love and crazy about him I doubt she will leave him.

At this point, Stillhere, I am plannin to move in a couple of years. I had my promotion and my salary went up, I will gain experience and can sell that experience elsewhere pretty soon.
A friend of mine who has connections is looking into a possibility for me in the States and if that turns out I could move even earlier.
The house is no concern of mine, even if I move...I will have WH handle it totally.
I do not want him back, he has shown me nothing but contempt towards me and cruelty. In the conditions he is in I doubt any shank can make him happy for long.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 02:35 PM
I definitely think his A will crash and burn....but it will probably be too late for you...congrats on your promotion.
Posted By: silentlucidity Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 03:15 PM
Hi atena.

*I* would stay away from OW's daughter. *I* would stay away from OW, *I* would stay away from WH, but you are not me. You aren't doing Plan B, so it is difficult to advise you. If you have already exposed the A to friends/family/work, etc then you are finished, IMO.

One thing I know is that her daughter may be angry with her, and she may hear you, but she also may just turn on you and defend her mother. Also, the fact that she is a minor concerns me. Regardless of how she dresses and acts, she is till JUST 15, with a 15 year old brain.

Being a step parent is difficult, and it takes real work to maintain a R under those circumstances, without the R being born from infidelity. Your WH is enjoying his tart, but she WILL grow tired of the conditions of the R and ask for more. That request may then be the death of the A.

Either way, I think you should leave this all alone, but as I said, you are not in Plan B, so my advise may not suit you.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 07:16 PM
I Know my plan B is not good because of my work and home situation. However I swear I am less effected by WH and OW and I am moving on.
I just came back from swimming lessons. I do not know how to swim and decided to learn. I also belong to a meditation group that meets once a week. I hooked up with 2 girlfriends and we do things together pretty regularly.
If I am invited out by other girlfriends for dinners or b.days I always go.
I never spend weekend at home and if I do I make sure I invite a girlfriend or relatives.
My friend in the states is looking into jobs for me over there.
I am making progress. I most of all I do want to lose even the last bit of love for WH. I do not want him back. My life was so miserable with this abusive and cruel man. I would not trust him even if he walked on water.
thank you and blessing
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 08:06 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I do not want him back. My life was so miserable with this abusive and cruel man. I would not trust him even if he walked on water.
thank you and blessing


When are you filing? So you can finally move on? Find a man that will respect you and your feelings?
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 08:37 PM
Atena,
In reading your posts one hand you wanting the A to implode and on the other you say you will not take him back.

Of course you can't take him back as he is in the alien state.

I would not tell the daughter. I agree she will turn on you. I know my DD we could fight like cats and dogs and if someone picked on me -- she would come to my defense hands down.

Blessings.

Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 09/30/10 08:38 PM
Atena,
In reading your posts one hand you wanting the A to implode and on the other you say you will not take him back.

Of course you can't take him back as he is in the alien state.

I would not tell the daughter. I agree she will turn on you. I know my DD we could fight like cats and dogs and if someone picked on me -- she would come to my defense hands down.

Blessings.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 11:38 AM
I was listening to one of the MB radio programs, I think it was the one broadcast on the 29 or 30th of Sept.
Dr. Harley repeated many times that plan B is to maintain the love you have for your spouse in case he returns and he said also that the only instance in which a BS should take a WS back is if the WS begs for forgiviness and is 100% sorry for what he did. Dr. H added that anything short of that should discourage the BS to take WS back. Joyce added that plan B is also to protect BS from the pain of the A. Dr. H agreed but he seemed to emphasize more the 'keeping the love' issue and not wanting the WS back unless 100% repeantant.
I see however that many people try to drag a reluctact WS back into the M and also SAA is an example of this. Is Dr. H takinga different approach in light of many false recoveries?
Plus, in my case where I do not want to R the M, I think the emphasis is definately on personal recovery. I do, in fact, want to lose all the love I have left for WH as fast as possible so I can move on.

blessing
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I see however that many people try to drag a reluctact WS back into the M and also SAA is an example of this.
atena, you don't see this where people are in Plan B. They cannot be trying to drag a reluctant WS back into the M when they have no contact with them. Can you tell me where you have seen this?

Where is SAA is there an example of this? Once Jon write his Plan B letter to Sue, he has no contact with her until the affair falls apart. Where do you see him trying to drag his reluctant WS back into the marriage while in Plan B?

If you are not intending to recover the marriage, when do you intend to file for divorce?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 12:25 PM
I did not express myself correctly. What I meant to say was that many times WS in plan b wants to R the M but still accuses the BS of having forced him into the A because of BS not being caring or affectionate, or working too much etc,,, or they plain say they want to R the M because of the kids. Even Sue when she initially came back to the M did so because he lover left her and she admitted that if he had contacted her again she would have fallen back into the A. She did not say I am sorry for what I did and she acted as if Job had an A and was to blame...not her...
In terms of D, I am not filing because I did not want a separation. I do not have the $$$ to afford a lawyer and register my D in Italy. I married in the states and then registered my M in Italy as well so I have to D in both places.
It is costly. Let WH ask for D and pay for it.
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 12:33 PM
Atena, I agree with SC, I don't see anywhere that a BS in Plan B is trying to bring the WS back to the marriage. I haven't seen anyone give such advice here either.

A lot of times, the BS needs that push to get into Plan B, it is a HUGE step. The BS is emotionally distraught and feels like this is the END. As a poster, I have told the BS that this is the best chance that they have to save their marriage. It is not intended as a wake-up call to the WS, although that does sometimes happen. The MAIN goal in Plan B is to save the love that the BS has left in case there is marital recovery, but a funny thing happens when a BS is in Plan B. After a certain amount of time, and I think it is different for every BS, the love they had for their WS disappears. DrH suggests 2 years, and for some people, I think it may take longer.

Atena, you have not been in a true Plan B. There has been contact, even though it was indirect and visual. You get thrown into a tail spin of emotions every time. There is no way to get over your WH when you are constantly thinking about him. You are losing all of the love left but in the worst possible way. It isn't slowly disappearing but instead, you are dying the death of a million cuts. You are doing this to yourself. This is NOT the way DrH intended it. This is not the way it was written in SAA and it is NOT the way any of us want it for you.

You need to shore up your Plan B, the best way possible. Get yourself out of contact, indirect or visual and stop making excuses why you can't. You need to figure out why you CAN. It's not easy, but when has anything that has been the right thing to do been the easy thing to do? Do this for YOU Atena.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 12:41 PM
Quote
Atena, I agree with SC, I don't see anywhere that a BS in Plan B is trying to bring the WS back to the marriage. I haven't seen anyone give such advice here either.
I see this often and an example is Phoenix and many others. THey took their WS back when the WS himself said he was not sure if he could R but he would give it a try. FR is exactly that...being in plan B and bellieving a non repentant WS.
As far as my plan B goes, I am keeping up my NC and my visual contact is very limited. I am filling my days with a full time job and lots of activities (swimming lessons, meditations, lectures). I am not spending any portion of my free time on WS or OW.
Ideally, yes, if I lived in another town it would be easy but relocation is not the norm even if MB recommends it many MBer do not do it.
I am planning to relocate in one or 2 years.
blessing
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 12:45 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I What I meant to say was that many times WS in plan b wants to R the M but still accuses the BS of having forced him into the A because of BS not being caring or affectionate, or working too much etc,,, or they plain say they want to R the M because of the kids. Even Sue when she initially came back to the M did so because he lover left her and she admitted that if he had contacted her again she would have fallen back into the A. She did not say I am sorry for what I did and she acted as if Job had an A and was to blame...not her...
In terms of D, I am not filing because I did not want a separation. I do not have the $$$ to afford a lawyer and register my D in Italy. I married in the states and then registered my M in Italy as well so I have to D in both places.
It is costly. Let WH ask for D and pay for it.
blessing
I think I see what you mean. You seem to be saying that, if you read SAA, the WS returns to the marriage reluctantly and without any of the heartfelt apologies that Dr Harley seems to be calling for now.

Dr Harley seemed to think that it was okay for Sue to return initially with no remorse, no apology, with a great sense of grievance and entitlement, and to still be blaming Jon for the affair. He did not tell Jon not to take her back without signs that she really understood what she had done to him and the kids. He recommended that Jon vigorously meet her ENs, and her feelings would change later, which they did - a little.

If this is what you mean, then I see your point about the book. I can appreciate that Dr Harley chose a very difficult story to illustrate the point that the most unpromising situations can be turned around, but I feel uncertain about where the story ends.

Dr Harley has written more recently that he sees no chance of the marriage surviving if the WS does not "get it", in spades. (Well, not those exact words, obviously!) I think it was over the summer when he posted to aussieswife about her great sense of guilt about what she had done.

I wish Dr H could hurry with his new edition of SAA. I too get the feeling that he emphasises some things more now, like exposure, demanding that the affair ends, and the WS needing to "get it". Yet the later advice is not in a single source that all can refer to.

I think this might merit a new thread, atena. It's a good point and it might get lost on your thread - which is not about Plan B to recover the marriage anyway.

On our last point; surely a legal divorce in one country would be recognised by another? Wouldn't an Italian divorce be recognised if you moved back to the States?

If WH asks for a divorce, won't you still need to hire a lawyer on your own behalf? Is it normal for the petitioner to pay both bills?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 12:47 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
Atena, I agree with SC, I don't see anywhere that a BS in Plan B is trying to bring the WS back to the marriage. I haven't seen anyone give such advice here either.
I can see what atena might have meant about the WS coming back, Scottie.

Do you still agree with me NOW?!! smile
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 12:52 PM
SC, thank you. Yes that is what i meant, that Dr H now tells not to take back a reluctant spouse but only one who is 100% sorry about what he did.
He does need to update SAA, he also added in the show that there is very little hope, if any, to R the M after 2 years in plan B or in separation.
The above has nothing to do with my plan B or my R my M.
In Italy the law say that the person who asks for the D needs to pay all expenses. Also if my H askes for D in the states (which is faster) then he would have to pay all the fees related to the legality of having the D translated and legitimate here in Italy. He will have to basically contact the Italian consulate and go thru them. A true nightmare in terms of time and also money.
Let him go thru that and pay the cost both in terms of patience and financial.
blessing
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by atena
[quote]I see this often and an example is Phoenix and many others. THey took their WS back when the WS himself said he was not sure if he could R but he would give it a try. FR is exactly that...being in plan B and bellieving a non repentant WS.
In my opinion, a new edition of SaA should deal with false recovery. I agree with you, atena, that it is a likely outcome where the WS comes back reluctantly - or in any case without signs of having "got it".

I can only think of sexymamabear just now, in relation to the WS moving out and false recovery. I don't think she would call TST's first period away from home a proper Plan B, but she did allow him to return home without tough conditions, and the affair simply continued.

The second time she did do Plan B, and he was not allowed to return without agreeing to many conditions. If he hadn't been eager to agree to them, she would have taken this as a sign of lack of commitment. He did eagerly agree, and their recovery has been strong and consistent.

MarriedForever went through false recovery too, and had to impose tough conditions at the start of Plan B.

I think that they are where they are now (i.e. in good recoveries) because they did not accept a reluctant WS back in their homes.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 01:10 PM
Yes, I remember how hard it was for Phoenix to go thru the roller coaster her reluctant WS was taking her thru only to tell her, at the end, that he could not ever love her again. She had suggested couseling with the Harleys but he never committed to that. Again a reluctant WS will not commit to much and when they do they might just go thru the motions.
It is a good sign when they are willing to compensate for their betrayal and do agree to what the BS demands of them.
It is really not worth the agony of taking a reluctant WS back.
My WH was so reluctant after his first A and he just went thru the motions for 3 years only to then leave me for his next OW.
I went thru h*ll and back for years. It is too much pain.
I know I said I would not take WH back and by that I mean not as he is now. But I do not think he is capable of being truly sorry for what he did.
Dr H says people can change and it is usually when they have an epiphany of some sorts. But he made it sound not easy or maybe this is the way I heard it.
blessing
Blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by atena
he also added in the show that there is very little hope, if any, to R the M after 2 years in plan B or in separation.
blessing


Do you think this is because of the BS losing their love for the WS or because of the WS, did DR H say the reason?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 01:33 PM
He did not, but from the context of the situation (a WH who left BW for another woman) it seemed that it could be both: BW losing love for WH and WH not giving up A shanko.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 01:36 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Yes, I remember how hard it was for Phoenix to go thru the roller coaster her reluctant WS was taking her thru only to tell her, at the end, that he could not ever love her again. She had suggested couseling with the Harleys but he never committed to that. Again a reluctant WS will not commit to much and when they do they might just go thru the motions.

No, Phoenix did not take her husband back. She allowed him to counsel with Steve Harley to see if he was sincere. Before the reconciliation took place, though, he said his heart was not in it. The reconciliation did not take place.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 01:37 PM
Originally Posted by atena
He did not, but from the context of the situation (a WH who left BW for another woman) it seemed that it could be both: BW losing love for WH and WH not giving up A shanko.
blessing

It's "SKANK," you silly foreigner!! grin
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by atena
He did not, but from the context of the situation (a WH who left BW for another woman) it seemed that it could be both: BW losing love for WH and WH not giving up A shanko.
blessing

It's "SKANK," you silly foreigner!! grin

rotflmao
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by stillhere8126
Originally Posted by atena
he also added in the show that there is very little hope, if any, to R the M after 2 years in plan B or in separation.
blessing


Do you think this is because of the BS losing their love for the WS or because of the WS, did DR H say the reason?
I'm sure he says in a Q&A on this website that the WS is unlikely to return to the marriage after 2 years.

He talks about this in the context that Plan B is a risk, because of "out of sight, out of mind". The WS can just get used to life without the BS. If they don't return within two years, it is likely that they have just moved on, whether the affair ends or limps on for longer. He advises the BS not to continue Plan B for more than 2 years.

He also says that by the two year mark, the BS will have adjusted to life without the WS and divorce will be a lot less traumatic than it would have been earlier.

But I would add that this is true only if the BS is in a true Plan B; not if they are holding out hope, and still keeping an eye on the affair, as you seem to be, atena.

I'm sorry to say something that will probably annoy you, but your regular postings here about the affair belie your words about wanting to move on. I don't think you will WANT to move on until you FORCE yourself to move on by MOVING AWAY. I don't see any exception to this. There are no reasons strong enough to stop you moving, and until you do, you will not begin to let go.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 02:24 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by stillhere8126
Originally Posted by atena
he also added in the show that there is very little hope, if any, to R the M after 2 years in plan B or in separation.
blessing


Do you think this is because of the BS losing their love for the WS or because of the WS, did DR H say the reason?
I'm sure he says in a Q&A on this website that the WS is unlikely to return to the marriage after 2 years.

He talks about this in the context that Plan B is a risk, because of "out of sight, out of mind". The WS can just get used to life without the BS. If they don't return within two years, it is likely that they have just moved on, whether the affair ends or limps on for longer. He advises the BS not to continue Plan B for more than 2 years.

He also says that by the two year mark, the BS will have adjusted to life without the WS and divorce will be a lot less traumatic than it would have been earlier.

But I would add that this is true only if the BS is in a true Plan B; not if they are holding out hope, and still keeping an eye on the affair, as you seem to be, atena.

I'm sorry to say something that will probably annoy you, but your regular postings here about the affair belie your words about wanting to move on. I don't think you will WANT to move on until you FORCE yourself to move on by MOVING AWAY. I don't see any exception to this. There are no reasons strong enough to stop you moving, and until you do, you will not begin to let go.

Thanks for clarifying that SC... cry
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 02:44 PM
Quote
He talks about this in the context that Plan B is a risk, because of "out of sight, out of mind". The WS can just get used to life without the BS.

Then if "out of sight, out of mind" is the case, wouldn't it be advisable that at some point in plan B the BS gets in sight again?
I do not know if this would work at all because seeing the WH would bring suffering to the BS especially if the A is still going. HOwever, if it is true that most A withing 2 years end, then after a while one would think that the A would start to deteriorate and that the re-appearance of the BS might remind the WS of what he is losing when compared to the now not so exciting A....
just speculating...
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 02:47 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Quote
He talks about this in the context that Plan B is a risk, because of "out of sight, out of mind". The WS can just get used to life without the BS.

Then if "out of sight, out of mind" is the case, wouldn't it be advisable that at some point in plan B the BS gets in sight again?
I do not know if this would work at all because seeing the WH would bring suffering to the BS especially if the A is still going.

The solution is to have your intermediary send a message that the door is still open IF he ended the affair. They should never see each other because seeing each other while he is still in an affair just triggers the pain again which makes things worse.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by atena
HOwever, if it is true that most A withing 2 years end, then after a while one would think that the A would start to deteriorate and that the re-appearance of the BS might remind the WS of what he is losing when compared to the now not so exciting A

MOST, but not all. What is the affair is not crumbling?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/04/10 07:15 PM
I have been listening to MB radio pretty regularly. It is very helpful. I am planning to email the Harleys and hopefully they will answer.
I am only able to hear the rebroadcast.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 02:36 PM
I emailed Joyce Harley about my story and she will read it tonight and have Dr. H comment. Joyce asked if I could be called and be part of the show but given the I live in Italy they cannot make long distance calls.
They are going to use the name Mary for me.
stay tuned.
blessing
Posted By: mason Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 05:30 PM
I am new to the sight and am in Plan B after my H seems ambivilent weather he wants me or the OW. He had an afair with a co-worker, he travel alot and she traveled with him,
He told his boss this week and says she is resigning. I am not sure if I should go to HR with this information - we need his salary, but I want him to experience some type of consequence. I have two boys 5 and 18 months. He has been out of the house for 1 month. We both in therapy separatly. He is depressed so I do not know if goingto hr will lift the fog or not. He is still emotionally attached to this woman. We started talking about a week or so ago, went to dinner- me thinking things were going well all the time he was making plans with her for the following weekend, I gave him the ultimatum, if you go it is over, He cancelled, but until he tell me she is out of the picture for good I will not speak to him, just facts about the kids.
I want the fog to be lifted and I need this woman out of my life.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 06:07 PM
Mason, so as not to lose our story in Atena's thread, I started you your own. Here, http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2432338#Post2432338

Welcome
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 06:49 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I emailed Joyce Harley about my story and she will read it tonight and have Dr. H comment. Joyce asked if I could be called and be part of the show but given the I live in Italy they cannot make long distance calls.
They are going to use the name Mary for me.
stay tuned.
blessing

Let me know when this will air, if possible.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 07:49 PM
It aired today and you can listen to the rebroadcast.
He basically said that my WH is a freeloader and will go from one A to the other and it is unlikely that he will return to the M.
In the remote chance he does he will pretend to be back into it only to revert back to is usual behaviour later on.
He also said to be honest with my son and tell him all the truth, which I did.
Joyce also encouraged me to email more questions to follow up in case I need to and they will answer them.
I am going to ask them if one is born a freeloader. I think Dr. H made it pretty clear that my WH will not come back, if at all, 100% repentant. Basically he said WH will end up probably with very few friends because his attitude towards people is also of a free loader so he wil not develop deep frienships (and that is true, he never did).
He said that it is important I tell son how much the A has ruined my life. He added and POSSIBLY WH's life too.
blessing
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 07:59 PM
Atena I am so sorry,

What are your plans now? I'm sure you will not sit there and wait any longer right? I hope not. laugh

Get your life back and find someone that will treat you descent. So sorry again.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 08:21 PM
Sorry Atena....Im feeling your pain, all to well.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 08:29 PM
I sort of expected that, I sort of knew he was going to say that the type of wayward my H is is the type that will continue his waywardness and independent behavior till they are old.
I am going to ask Dr. H why someone like my WH who is so adamant about wanting his own independence and the freedom to have female friends, why on earth someone like him have a relationship with OW that now lasted 2 and half years (one year of which fully exposed to all) when he could just go from one woman to the next without commitment....
Oh yes, I am moving on....he is truly not worth it.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 08:39 PM
I just wanted to add another thing Dr H said. He said that these type of wayward (freeloaders) will continue to have A because they will never put into place the extraordinary precautions necessary to avoid them. So they will always fall into risky behavior and sooner or later cheat on their current partner.
I just wanted to add this because I think it says a lot about how little we could do as BS to prevent the A when WS was not willing to work on taking precautions to prevent the A and when all they wanted was to have female friends and their space to do what they wanted.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I sort of expected that, I sort of knew he was going to say that the type of wayward my H is is the type that will continue his waywardness and independent behavior till they are old.
I am going to ask Dr. H why someone like my WH who is so adamant about wanting his own independence and the freedom to have female friends, why on earth someone like him have a relationship with OW that now lasted 2 and half years (one year of which fully exposed to all) when he could just go from one woman to the next without commitment....
Oh yes, I am moving on....he is truly not worth it.
blessing


I have wondered the same about my WH.....Unless....They are already cheating on the OW and we just dont know it...Heck, I didnt even know for 2 years that he was cheating on me. I wasnt even suspicious until the last few months before Dday.

I mean gosh the OW put up with them staying with their wife whilst they were adultering....when we found out and wouldnt stand for it they prolly figure to stay with OW so they always have that person who will put up with the cheating.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 08:57 PM
Yes, I think we live under the illusion that they are faithful to OW. Our WHs are not living with OW so imagine how many opportunities they have to make female friends, to have independent behavior and to not account for what they do.
I saw it with my own eyes: the A was already fully active by then (I just did not know then) and WH and I were at a job event where many people were present including very attractive women. My WH was able to manage to flirt with 2 of them within the span of an hour.
Not too many days later in the occasion of our son's graduation he was very flirty with a much younger colleague. We were all at the beach together and he put his towel next to hers and then went to swim with her. All this, again, when he was already fully in the A with current OW (and of course still living with me)....
Now he might still very well be into his swimming team activity (his new interest after the separation) where tons of good looking female athletes participate. OW does not because of her pacemaker and heart condition. I can only imagine the flirting and the "friendships" WH is eager to foster especially when OW is forced to spend time with her brats.
We are talking about people who had several A here, not little innocent lambs.
Blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 09:01 PM
We thought too much of ourselves to put up with their crap....OW dont, they took scraps to begin with.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I am going to ask Dr. H why someone like my WH who is so adamant about wanting his own independence and the freedom to have female friends, why on earth someone like him have a relationship with OW that now lasted 2 and half years (one year of which fully exposed to all) when he could just go from one woman to the next without commitment....
Dr H won't say this, but here's my take;

The reason he is having sex with OW is because she lets him.

He is not having sex with multiple OWs, because nobody else is letting him, at the moment. If someone else does, he will.

OWs only become OWs because they are easy, not because they are special.

He stays with her because she is easy, not because she is special.

From what you have describe (if I remember correctly), theirs is not the earth-shattering romance of the millennium. There is no sign of marriage and they do not live together. He has not turned his life over to her, he just shags her regularly.

He ain't all that, that "he could just go from one woman to the next without commitment". Quite a lot of women have standards. They want a boyfriend, and eventually a husband, who is a decent man, especially if they are older and have already had a marriage breakdown.

He just met a woman without standards, that's all. In time he'll meet another.

Stop fretting about why they are still together. Just be glad that he didn't reluctantly go back to YOU.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/05/10 11:19 PM
Wow! Dr Harley nailed this right on, Atena! He called your H a "freeloader." [we knew this] A "renter will bargain to the minimum to get back in."

Your "son learned his father is a disgrace." Or "he might say his father had the right idea."
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/06/10 01:05 AM
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Atena I am so sorry,

What are your plans now? I'm sure you will not sit there and wait any longer right? I hope not. laugh

Get your life back and find someone that will treat you descent. So sorry again.

atena, even though Dr. H thought WH is freeloader, you should wait till after D to start dating.

You will need that time to get your own head on straight instead of jumping into another R.

Blessings.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/06/10 03:31 AM
Originally Posted by hope3343
Originally Posted by SapphireReturns
Atena I am so sorry,

What are your plans now? I'm sure you will not sit there and wait any longer right? I hope not. laugh

Get your life back and find someone that will treat you descent. So sorry again.

atena, even though Dr. H thought WH is freeloader, you should wait till after D to start dating.

You will need that time to get your own head on straight instead of jumping into another R.

Blessings.


And that is what I have meant.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/06/10 12:23 PM
Hi Melody,
I can tell you listened to the program last night I emailed them with more questions.
Quote
"renter will bargain to the minimum to get back in."
Yes, I think here is was talking about the difference between a renter and a freeloader. He said the renter will bargain to a minimum, while you can always recognize a freeloader because he will always blame you for all the problems. SO I think here what dr. H was saying is that if my H were to come back he will make sure I know that all the problems with the M were because of me. Of course I should not take him back.

At this point is not even an issue whether I will take the WH back or not, because i realized that it is really who he is in his essence that is flawed.
Dr. H will never say something like: your WH will never change or your WH will never come back...but he puts it in a way that you sort of get the feeling that chances are so small you might as well resign to the fact the the M is pretty much over.

Now for me is deciding what to do next.

I have been applying for summer jobs in the States as I plan to spend at least 2 months over there working. I will then get a feel for things and apply for a full time job taking a sabbatical year from my current job.
If all goes well I will then permanently move. So in a year from now I could easily be in the States or at the most in 2 years.
As far as D goes. I am not going to file. It is costly as I have to D in 2 different countries. In the States is fairly "cheap" but here the rule is strict: the person who asks pays all the expences and it is assumed that if he/she asks for a D she must want out and is somehow at fault (unless phisical abuse is proven). I do not even want to go there with the legal system we have in this country....
SO I will leave it to my WH to file. After all he is the one who wants out. I will not sign the D papers unless he puts on them that he is leaving because of anothe woman. Because that is the truth.
As far as dating others. I have no interest at all. However I have decided to do plan B till Oct 15 2011. After that if I feel like it I will date. I can live without a man and without sex for a long while.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/06/10 02:05 PM
Quote
I mean gosh the OW put up with them staying with their wife whilst they were adultering....when we found out and wouldnt stand for it they prolly figure to stay with OW so they always have that person who will put up with the cheating.
Yes, this is a good point. And I think that many times, after the separation and after the honey moon of the A is over the WS clings to the OP just because they are the only ones that will put up with their behavior and will keep them company..because, let's face it, they must feel pretty lonely.
Blessing
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/06/10 04:37 PM
Does someone have the link for this show? I'd like to listen to it...
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/06/10 06:43 PM
it aired yesterday and the re-broadcast has been taken down now. I am not sure if you can access it thru the archives-
Here is the link
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/

blessing
Posted By: markos Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/06/10 06:59 PM
Voila!

http://richwith.com/mb/radio/
http://richwith.com/mb/radio/oldershows/
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/06/10 10:12 PM
Thanks!! smile
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 07:20 AM
Joyce emailed asking me if I want to be live on the show so I will be on it tonight first thing when it starts
I am going to ask what Dr. H suggest I do given the situation with my WH and how he foresees situations like mine in terms of R of M.
I will also give him more details about my story.
The only thing I am nervous about is if any of my WH relatives will be listening to the show and will recognize me....I will make sure I convey the devastation an A brings to a family so if they are listening they can finally undestand the magnitude of what their relative (my WH) did.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 01:32 PM
yippee!! I can't wait to hear you! smile
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 03:38 PM
I can't wait either!

Atena, do you think you'll be nervous? If you do, you may want to have a few notes written down in front of you before you call in. That's what I did and it helped as I had such bad stage fright that I completely forgot everything I wanted to say...
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 05:38 PM
Great advice SusieQ...Thats a great idea...I do that even when I go to the doctors cuz it never fails that I forget to ask something....Unfortunately I usu still forget to ask once I get into her answering the first question...and Usu I only have two questions...I swear since the A thing happened I have lost some vital brain cells.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 06:28 PM
I did it!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for your advice! I did have notes and it helps!

Dr. Harley and Joyce are wonderful and they make you feel so at ease!
Their were truly helpful.
The show is re-broadcast for the next 23 hours.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 07:41 PM
I can't wait to hear it!
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 08:11 PM
Atena, you are a star...

I want to listen to it and hope I can listen to the re-broadcast.

What kind of advice did he give you?

Blessings.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 08:15 PM
Atena tattled on us to Dr Harley!! rotflmao She said the forum members were giving her hell about working at the same place with her H!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 08:19 PM
I want it to be honest and tell them all the truth about my plan B, I was going to bring up living in the marital home but there was no time left.
I love to tell on you guys!!!! hug
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 08:36 PM
uh oh, I am in trouble now! lol
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 09:05 PM
He basically said I will be better off without him because in Dr. H's opinion my WH, being a serial cheater (he did not use this term) will not come back repentant (if he even does come back) But, if he does, he will not be repentant, he will blame me for his affair. He will also not agree to take extraordinary precautions.
Dr. H said that WH that are on their second A will have a hard time not having other A's. They will not be able to commit to one woman, their W, for the rest of their life. So he said he does not see my M in good shape at all for this reason.
He did not say that WH will not come back, he said he might but not repetant and that , in that case, I should not take him back.
He added that in his experience BW do much better than WH in the long run. Dr H said he believe my WH is headed towards a downward spiral.
He talked to me before the show started and said that my WH has lost all his morals and he is so fogged up because of the A that chances that he will come back to his senses are low. He in fact added that he does not want to encourage me to look forward to my WH returning.
In fact, he said, these type of man rarely come back to their senses and end up dying early or doing very poorly because they do not take care of themselves.
He also said that since WH admitted about being suicidal before his first A and claimed that A helped him with those feelings, Dr. H believes that WH will experience those suicidal feelings again in the future.
Basically WH is not improving his life by the choices he made and I am better off without him.
blessing
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/08/10 09:17 PM
The rebroadcast won't open for me for some reason... Anyone else having that problem?

ETA:

Ok, it launched the media player on another computer and I got to listen. Wow, they spent so much time with you, atena! It was a great segment and you guys hit on some important points re exposure, moving to Plan B, etc. Thanks for sharing!!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/22/10 10:10 AM
I just want to quickly run this by you all.
I was on the balcony yesterday afternoon talking to a gossipy collegue from work who retired last year. She wanted to know about me and WH so I told her, very matter of fact, that I did not wish to talk about him.
However she started giving ME details about what she heard and she heard that one of the new teachers here at school is interested in WH and has started asking about his marital status. She also added that she knew all along about my WH affair with a co worker a few years ago but that no one had the courage to tell me.
At that point I said to her that my WH has been unfaithful to me many times probably throught the whole M and that he is a very skilled liar. I also added that he has plenty of women interested in him. This interest combined with his wayward attitude really makes it into a pretty predictable lifestyle of cheating.
I then concluded by saying that what he does is fortunately no longer my business and shoud be the concern of whomever he is currently dating.
I changed the subject then asking her about her grandchildren.
THEN I gazed down and saw that OW was also on the balcony and hanging her clothes and must have been listening to the whole conversation!!!!!!!!
I am sure she is already super jelous and suspicious of WH and now after what she heard me say on the phone I am sure she is going to report it to WH and he will problably hate me even more! I am sure he has not told her about him cheating on me in the past nor about OW at work being interested in him!
Should I worry?
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/22/10 02:33 PM
bump
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/22/10 04:55 PM
bump...any thoughts?
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/22/10 06:23 PM
Here is my thought about it. Firstly, when someone disrespects your request to NOT talk about you WH, I would hang up, or walk away. they will get the message CLEARLY for next time.

Second, who gives a rat's azz what your WH will think about this? The only thing is, this is an example of why you need to MOVE. You are being brought back into their drama and worrying about what WH is doing. Don't worry about it.

Stop thinking about and talking about WH and OW, and MOVE. That is what I have to say.

(((((Atena)))))) BTW, have you noticed that one of the newbs keeps calling you Antena? HEHEHEHEHEHE Thought I could make you smile.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 11:57 AM
Scotty, thank you for your post!
I have been taking a very small break from MB, but here I am again....
WH, for a year now, has been depositing his paycheck in our joint account (just as when we were still together).
The mortgage comes out of my paycheck which gets deposited in a bank account that is only under my name.
So each month I witdrew his portion of the mortgage and other house expences from the joint account.
Now I see that, starting this month his paycheck no longer is deposited in the joint account.
So this leaves me now in a situation where probably, every month, I have to beg for money.
All I see here is a WH who has sistematically planned the separation as announced by him a year before we actually separated.
He has gone thru stages: detachement, attachemt to OW, leave the marital home, more attachement to OW and now separate accounts and pressure to sell the house.
He does not seem fogged up to me. He follows specific steps which I guess will eventually lead to D.
He had in fact told me that 2 years after we separate he should be clean of the M and over it. He even told Steve this.
Does this sound like fog or good planning?
At this point when a WS talks this way...what are the chances he could actually come to an epiphany and want to R the M?
All he has shown me in the past year is he is plan Being me as much as I am and has shown no interest in R the M.
He is most likely still with OW...how much does the A have to do with his behaviour?
Thank you
Blessing
Posted By: Harmony2010 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by Scotland
(((((Atena)))))) BTW, have you noticed that one of the newbs keeps calling you Antena? HEHEHEHEHEHE Thought I could make you smile.


OMG thats me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I had to go back and check my posts....

I am dying so embarassed!!

Kind of like Antena though smile I am sat in my office at work and everyone is looking at me like I am insane as I am laughing out loud!!

Sorry ATENA......

Glad I made you laugh Scotland smile
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 12:35 PM
No problem...I thought that ant-ena is better than aunt-ena....ehh ehh..funny
blessing
Posted By: Harmony2010 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 12:59 PM
Hi -

Ha ha glad you like it!!

You deserve so much better than your husband Atena, you really do. I do understand though, that even after the way your H has treated you, you still want him to sort himself out and come back and recover the marriage.

I think the worst thing for you is having to live so near him, that must be toture.

Even though I love my H, I have my boundaries in M and unless he is willing to meet them, then I can;t compromise.

Have you not found your love for him decrease in your time appart? Does the longer in your Plan B not open you up to having a happier future without him it it?

Just questions thats all.

Hope all is well.

When are your trips to London and Prague?

Harmony.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 01:16 PM
No, I am still consumed by it all because I see him at work and live where OW lives.
I am planning on changing this however. It took me a long time to decide but I have made up my mind to look for a job back in the States. I work in education so it will be for the 2011 school year.
Unless there are zero jobs available in my field (they are cutting for the position I have) then I will be ready to move this coming summer.
I can no longer have a life this way. It is too painful
WH has shown no desire to R the M and is, as far as I can tell, totally into the A.
At this point I realize my M has no hope and the only thing I am doing to myself is to make me more and more bitter every day.
WH is happier and has a new and exciting life...Me, on the other hand...miserable and pining after memories of my M life and the desire to have him back...
It has to end and the only way it can end is if I move...
blessing
Posted By: Harmony2010 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 01:24 PM
Yes sure that must be hard seeing them all the time. It does not give you the chance to get over him.

This may not be very MB but sometimes I think that when men see we are finally letting go and moving on with our lives and making it successful, thats when they come running.

Also, you don't know he is having a new and exciting life. Short term fix maybe.

It is very hard, and there are times that I sit and pine for my H, and to be honest I do worry about the time when he truly does move on and how I will feel about that.

The beauty if Plan B is that you shouldn't have to see or know what H is upto. IS there not anywhere you can go to temp, until the move in the summer? Just so you can get away from all the pain of having to see them all the time?

I really don't like the thought of you having to see that. For me, H and I live in the same small town, but my plan now is not to let him in the house whilst I am there and if I see him out for example a restaurant or bar, is just to walk out and go somewhere else.

Harmony.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 01:31 PM
Quote
Also, you don't know he is having a new and exciting life. Short term fix maybe.
It has been a year now and all he has done is sunbathe at the beach with OW, travel with her and dine with her. He looks tanned and fit.
A man who is unhappy with what he is doing, after a year of doing it, would either: try to R the M OR move (he is american and we live in europe) he has nothing here except OW and a job who pays so little ..he could get a much better one in the states)
I just got a promotion and in the country where I am now job flexibility is not an option.
It is hard, I try to minimize contact and he does not visit OW she visits him so I do not see them together.
I get glances of him every so often but the enviroment we share is a constant trigger...
blessing
Posted By: Harmony2010 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 01:36 PM
Is there not anything you can do to move away? For example, same town but different street?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 02:01 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I am planning on changing this however. It took me a long time to decide but I have made up my mind to look for a job back in the States. I work in education so it will be for the 2011 school year.

yeehaw!!! hurray
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 02:32 PM
hurray

I am soo glad you finally agreed with us!! YA!!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 04:38 PM
Yes, I am going to sell the house for whatever they give us and i want out of it.
I feel like I am not able to have a life till I leave all this behind.
He is not worth the fight, he is not a prize for sure...it is sickening the way he has behaved all those years.
I have been miserable since 2004 and before then i was ok but he never seemed happy...
blessing
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 08:35 PM
Good for you Atena. I think you are going to be AMAZED at the difference once you finally do this.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 10:23 PM
Atena, I am glad that you are doing what is best for YOU.

hug
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/28/10 11:24 PM
Atena, just checking in too.

Once you get to that point of real detachment it will do wonders for your own self esteem.

You will rebuild confidence. You will start looking at your own life and what needs you have.

As we go down a good path it is "ying and yang" they will start to go down the black hole no matter what you perceive his life to be.

Blessings.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/29/10 11:45 AM
Quote
As we go down a good path it is "ying and yang" they will start to go down the black hole no matter what you perceive his life to be.

I am starting to seriouly detach. I guess it has been so hard being back at the house and i have been in such pain that at some point about a week ago I just could not feel anymore and then all of a sudden the love i had for him seems much much less. Even when images of him and OW come to mind...they do not have the same power to hurt me.
I do doubt that what I do or feel influences WH. When I move back to the States I think all he will feel is relief of me being out of the house (which might by then be sold so he has $$$ to spend with OW) and out of his workplace. I can hardly imagine him going down the black hole.
I think there is a misconseption about these WS being unhappy. The one like mine who are so entitled and unrepeantant are the kind who are convinced that what they are doing is right and have no shame nor sadness or guilt about it.
I have to admit...it would be nice to see the karma bus in action...but so far it has only operated on myself...I must have done something wrong to deserve all this...
blessing
Posted By: Mrs_Recon6mo Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/29/10 12:19 PM
Oh, karma will work on everyone, don't worry. If not in this lifetime, then next or next after. Even your WH has a "chance" to be born again as a creature of lower levels of food chain, where they are left behind ... eeee... half-eaten, half-chewed, for a nature to take care. Imagine that!

I have followed your story, heard you from the radio show lately, and I'm very glad that you have finally made up your mind. However, you will be missed in our part of the world after you move:-)
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/29/10 12:25 PM
Ok...I was hoping more in this lifetime, cuz we all turn to bird feed when we die...
Are you also in Europe?
My leave from here is not going to be permanent. I am asking for a leave of absence and they only give you one year. This way I keep my job here and see how it wil turn out in the states. If things are rough over there jobwise, I can always come back to my job here.
A pretty low risk situation that will give me a much needed breather.
blessing
Posted By: Mrs_Recon6mo Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/29/10 12:42 PM
Yes, in the northern part of Europe.

A full year away might give you some very good opportunities indeed. I just hope you'll never have to come back to the same situation you have right now.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/29/10 12:49 PM
There could be a small chance my WH also asks for a leave of absence. I know he was thinking about it last year and the year before but then changed his mind. He seems to think about it every year and then...does not do it.
But even if he leaves I will leave as well (of course he will not go where I go, I know for sure.)
SHould I come back here I will have a different home and will not have the triggers I have now.
The thing is..the job I have here is really good. So I will have to think long and hard before I leave it.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/29/10 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I have to admit...it would be nice to see the karma bus in action...but so far it has only operated on myself...I must have done something wrong to deserve all this...
blessing

{{{{{Atena}}}}....You did not do something wrong that made you deserve all this....I used to think this about myself also...but bad things happen to good people too....Bad people do bad stuff to good people all the time...

But we will triumph through all this crap...Bad people will not, it may seem that way temporarily....But theirs is a deep, soul killing, self inflicted Bad, That may take a while...Ours is a wound inflicted upon us by someone else. Our souls are still intact and our heads can be held high with no guilt.

Our treated wounds will heal, atena, and they will fester in their own gangrene from the wound they inflicted upon themselves , just covered with a bandage and ignored, thinking it will just go away itself. Eventually it will eat away at their soul. They may seem fine on the outside, but evil is eating them on the insides.




Ahhh, sorry I think I got a a little carried away. But that is how I feel about it.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 10/29/10 09:31 PM
I thought about this myself too. I thought of it in two ways. I look at every experience as a way to LEARN. Every experience that I have had before today, good or bad, has made me into who I am today. That means that every experience I have today, will make me into who I am tomorrow. So, live and grow. laugh

Also, I pray every morning and every night that my WH and OW feel the consequences of their actions, I forgot that sometimes, those consequences will affect me too.

Like Still said, we will grow and become BETTER from our experiences, where the waywards, who choose to remain wayward, will NOT.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/01/10 06:34 PM
Hi all,
I went to visit my mom and brother this week end, they live 3 hours from me. I told them I am seriously thinking to take a year leave of absence and they went up the wall. My mom started crying saying that I am almost 50 and that I will never settle...that I have a good job here and their support and they do not understand why i want to go back to the states even if only for a year.,,,to do what? What do I think...that things are easy over there?
They think I am letting WH dictate my future because I still think too much about him and make him influence me to the point where I have to move. They do not understand why i do not see WH for what he is, a fool and cruel SOB.
I stayed calm and explained and they still were upset.
When I left to come back home it was raining and my car slid and I hit the railing on the road (very windy roads). Fortunately nothing happened but I did not have the courage to tell my brother or mom so I am putting it down on the forum just to get it out.
I am kind of scared of being alone and having to face big changes even if I know they could be good. I hate to see my mom cry and my brother upset...and risk my life because of all the tention in my life...
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/02/10 11:32 AM
Bump...
and also to complete the stress, a colleague just came in and said that it is ok to stay married till something better comes along (refering to my WH)...I just can't believe the guts people have! Plus she advised me to stop being angry and find myself a sexual partner....
I did nothing to her to begin this conversation..I was just sitting and smiling..nothing else.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/02/10 01:45 PM
bump
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/02/10 01:46 PM
Your best bet is to get out of that country and move to the states. I still agree on that, if people don't understand the pain you are enduring then they won't understand why you need to move.

And please don't take advise from people that you don't want to switch places with.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/02/10 03:00 PM
I am looking for jobs. Again, in education they open up later, probably in the spring.
I am ready to leave, really.
I would not want to be living the life of the people who do not want me to move. That is so true...
blessing
Posted By: Harmony2010 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/02/10 04:51 PM
Hiya Atena

Sorry to hear about your car accident, I hope that you are ok.

It is so important that you make decisions that are right for you, and not what anyone else thinks.

You have been in Plan B for such a long time, and like you are doing it is a great time for you to move on. You are making baby steps towards this, but have a plan to get him out of your life once and for all.

Your mother and brother are only upset as they want to see you happy and closing the door on your WH. You can show them this though, through how you live, and choices you do to make yourself happy, not what others want. So what if your 50 and decide to move? Thats almost like saying that it is wrong to have kids to young or too old! Its about whats right for YOU.

Atena, you must speak up and not let your colleague speak to you like that! God you sound like I use to be! You a strong brilliant women!! Put that colleague in her place. You are so much how I use to be. When I first came here all the work on boundaries has put me in a good place and would have let her know in some uncertain terms that her unsolicited advice was not required. You don;t come across as angry at all, you come across as a good kind women, who got involved with the wrong man.

Although you can only make the right decisions for yourself, there is some sense in what the people around you are saying. I prefer to ask for advice, rather than be given unsolicitied advice.

However, I do remember JL saying to me once, that those around you who seem very insensitive and abrupt are also quite useful at giving a straight view of the situation. Not sure if it applies here.

Originally Posted by atena
I am ready to leave, really.


Please please, make your life a success Atena. You really deserve it. If you are angry with your WH, and it sounds like you got over that sometime ago, then the best way to seek revenge is success.

Harmony
Posted By: Harmony2010 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/02/10 04:59 PM
PS

its Atena time!!
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/02/10 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by Harmony2010
PS

its Atena time!!

You sure you didn't mean "Antena?" HAHAHAHAHAHA

Atena, people don;t understand Plan B. They don't understand what DrH knows to be true. They go off of their own personal experience and they try to help you. They really mean well, they just don't know how to help.

I would suggest that you get as dark as possible now, and even make plans in case you don't go to the Sates.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/02/10 06:18 PM
Atena,
First hugs.
I guess your family must be I-talian. I am familar with that "beast". it is call Italian Guilt and my family loves to throw it on thick every chance they get.

Your Mom and brother are giving you the good arguments about why you should not leave. The real reason is that they do not want you to leave THEM. Plain and simple.

So what you are almost 50. If you can take a leave for a year and WANT to then you should.

Sorry it was a double whammy with first your family and then the accident.

Change is difficult. I am facing with selling my home next year and what my next move will be. Some days it paralyzes my thinking but when the time comes I will have a plan.

Your life is already a success it just got railroaded a bit.

blessings.


Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/02/10 08:24 PM
Thank you Scotland. Yes, I have to make plans for both scenarios here or in the States. jobs are hard to get over there and I need an extra piece of accreditation that I do not have..so. But I want to be optimistic and the right job is out there waiting for me...
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/02/10 08:29 PM
Yes, my family is Italian living in Italy where everybody agrees with them and thinks I am crazy...they just think I am irresponsible. They say I am blessed with a good job and should not spit on it nor be ungrateful....
By the way I am not 50, but 45, but to my mom ...she always says she is older (she is 76 but says she is 80..) go figure why...I guess it adds more drama if you are older! So she makes me older too.....!!!!!
Change is difficult but I live each in every day as if I were in a nightmare...this house...the OW right in front of my eyes...at work trying to avoid him...people I know who know him and see me as the abandoned wife...
I know it is just a mental thing..the nightmare thing...but it takes such a huge amount of energy every day to remind myself that life is what I make it and if I allow OW and WH to make me miserable then it is my choice.
Thank you for everything
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/09/10 02:38 PM
Hi all,
sorry I only come here to vent. I am looking for jobs in the states and for sure, if god wills, I will at least spend the all summer over there.
It is hard. As it is now, I do realize that seeing WH at work and OW at home is not at all conducive to my recovery. I can't help noticing when her car is parked in front of my apartment building (then I knwo she is home) and when is not (then I know she is with him)and week ends are the worse because she spands the night at his place (I know because the car is not there..)
Is pure torture. Is this A never ending? How can it possibly be?
I listen to MB radio daily and Dr H keeps repeating that 95% of A end within 2 years...that they are just fantasy etc...but by now, after more than a year in plan B, OW seem to be able to meet WH needs just fine...
He must have hated me so much by the end that he will never think of me again...
I do love him still....I am just waiting for my love bank to be below zero..but when is this going to happen.
OK, I do keep busy, I have friends, do sports twice a week, belong to a meditation group. I am also planning 2 trips in europe...what more can I do?????????
Any words of encouragement will help....I just want to be happy as much as WH is...it is not fair.
blessing
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/09/10 03:01 PM
You need to understand that knowing you are in the same building THEY KNOW you are watching and it just makes their fantasy more interesting and more enticing.

That is why we kept telling you TO MOVE out and to get away from your husband, now can you see?

Until he knows you are gone then the reality will set, so really you can't count that whole year you have been in "plan B" because you haven't, not at all.

Once you move then is where you can start counting the day's you have been in plan B.
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/09/10 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by atena
what more can I do?????????


Leave that job and move away. That will help EVERYTHING! I'm sorry I wished you had listened to our advise when you first came here, I'm just glad that you are finally taking the action to get out of your situation.
Posted By: Mrs_Recon6mo Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/09/10 03:12 PM
Atena, would it help if you rented yourself a little place elsewhere and spend the rest of your time until you move to States there?

I cannot imagine that you see their life every day. It will affect your health sooner or later.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/09/10 03:29 PM
Thank you for your replies but I just wanted to remind you all that for almost a year I was NOT living in the marital home. I spend from October 09 to Aug 2010 away from there. When my energies and financed were consumed I moved back to the marital home.
SO, for a long time in plan B WH and OW knew I was NOT in the marital home spying. And that did not effect the A one bit.
I was gone for good part of my plan B so I do not think that it was all wasted....
It must be that they are truly in love or that she is so easy on him catering to him at his door step (she is basically OW delivery, he calls up and she shows up at his door step..she does house calls....) He couldn't ask for better
--her kids do not go with her when she visits him, she leaves them with XH
--she has a car, he does not. If he needs rides she is there for him
--she has no education he is highly educated. SHe is full of admiration for him
--they only spend quality time together, then she goes home and deals with her brats and he has all his independence and free time to relax and do what he wants
--our son is in the states,,,asks nothing of us
--WH has enough money to take care of all he needs.....

Now tell me ....how does me living in the marital home can top it off with all the amenities this A has already????
Please take a close look at it and be honest with me....
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/09/10 04:09 PM
Living there affects YOU, atena...You. Who cares about how it affects those affair [censored]....We are worried about YOU. {{{atena}}}}
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/09/10 05:16 PM
I am determined to get out of here. Sell the house for whatever we can get and move out as soon as possible. I just pray to find a job in the states...that's all...so far, in my field, there have been so many cuts, so news are somewhat discouraging, but I am not giving up...
when i talked about my WH sometimes I forget of how much cruelty towards me he was capable of.
Yesterday I was listening to an MB radio archive piece and Dr. H was saying to a BS: WS are like rapists. Do you want you WH to rape you once in a while by having occasional contact with him or do you want to have nothing to do with him?
I guess everytime I go home and see OW and her life with my WH is as if I am raped again. I just know is wrong. It is starting to effect my mental health. I do talk loud when i am by myself re-hashing all my WH did to me...I have been doing this for 2 years now...Is this normal?
I need to move on, really.
Thank you for all your help...
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/09/10 05:20 PM
Hi Atena,
Just keep working on yourself and continue your job search. Look at your own plan.

You are going into the what if mode and it is not helping you. They say A last 2 years, weill it has been over 2 years and XH married It.

Don't hang onto that 2 year rule because every case is different.

Will keep you in my prayers.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/09/10 05:27 PM
Hope, did you WH move in with OW right away and then he married her a year after when the D was final?
Is your WH an alcholic?
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/09/10 07:17 PM
Atena, whether your WH's A ends within the 2 years or not, doesn't make it any more "special" than any other A. You can't focus on the affairess and their affair. You need to refocus to YOURSELF. I know that you are trying. It has to be difficult seeing her car. It causes you to be in their A EVERY DAY. Have you talked to your doctor? Have you thought about getting some ADs?

Next, you could do a pickle jar, like the one that I had. You could put a small amount of money in it every time you think about WH, OW or the A. We will let you skip putting it in when you are talking about it on here, or IRL for support. You will be AMAZED at how often you think about it. Then, when you start running out of money, you will decide to change it. Once a week, I would suggest that you take whatever money you have and go to a movie, or out to dinner BY YOURSELF. Let OW and WH wonder where you are going and who YOU are with, although that isn't going to be what you are concerned about, RIGHT. grin

Keep making your plans to leave so you can be DARK. In the meantime, focus on your thoughts and things that are within YOUR control. laugh
Posted By: cabbages Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/10/10 02:11 PM
It doesn't matter that they didn't know you were "spying"...YOU knew. Removing yourself completely is for your own sake, and is a true Plan B. I wish you the best in achieving this. You must know all these good people here are looking out for you and your future.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/10/10 03:04 PM
Thank you
I know that plan B is for me. The impact of plan B on the WH is zero. At least in my case. WH has not tried to contact me in any form or manner (except for very pratical matters thru our IM). He has never shown anger, resentement or other feelings. He has dealt with me only for cut and dry business issues.
I understand also that, from the way Dr. Harley describes plan B, the plan is also so that OW tries to meet all WH emotional needs (EN) and eventually fails. Is for WH to see what he is giving up by leaving the M. So, in a way, it should be also geared to impact WH...but many people on this forum say that it is only for the BS.
In my case I can say that plan B did nothing to the A as OW must be meeting WH's EN just fine. Maybe my WH has very basic EN. In fact, just thinking about it, I think his are
admiration
sex
recreational companionship
He admitted it to himself that conversation, a neat home, financial security not that important to him.
He also admitted, however, that family is important to him..but given that our son is now on his own, even this need becomes secondary...
so OW meets his needs.
I know I should give up hope about R and that's when I will finally be able to let go emotionally.
Even if I move, emotionally is still going to take me a while to get over him....I still love him after years of him not meeting my EN!!!
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/10/10 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Hope, did you WH move in with OW right away and then he married her a year after when the D was final?
Is your WH an alcholic?
blessing

Hi Atena, XH moved out in 11/08 (A began June), he kept the apartment till 6/09 but he practically lived with PP from 12/09 just keeping the address. He was under the delusion that DD would come and stay with him and have BBQ in his apartment with his friends (you know the fog babble). He married PP less than a year after the D for the sake of appearances even though everyone here at work knows the real timeline.
Yes, XH is an active alcoholic. He was sober 15 years and I think the drinking is more important than the A. When I saw him it looks like he is dying. Can't save him.

It's ok that you love your WH, "you are loving the unloveable" because we thought that we would be with our H till death do us part. Our vows didn't change theirs did. What you need to understand is he is not the same man and you keep trying to deal with your real H. He is not there.

Schoolbus wrote something brilliant about how do you know when the A is over...when the WS start complaining louder about the OP or something to that effect. If anyone saved it can you post it here. It is very empowering.

While you are looking for a new job use your proximity to your advantage? Have you had any get togethers or parties? Pick a night when you know OW is home. Play loud music, open the windows so the laughter and clanging of glasses could be heard down the street. You are confident, you are strong, you are educated...show them your strength. Feel you don't have enough friends then this is a good chance to make some new ones.

Have an "American Thanksgiving" party. Decorate your windows, change your curtains, detach.

Hugs. We re here for you.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/11/10 12:50 PM
Quote
What you need to understand is he is not the same man and you keep trying to deal with your real H. He is not there.
I guess it is pretty safe to say the WH acts, with OW, the same way he acted with us when he was first in love with us.
I do not think he is acts like a jerk with OW. I know for a fact he sent her loving message, and very romantic ones. I know they spent romantic week ends together and he probably gives her gifts.
So she gets the H we lost.
Why would that not be the case?
WH is the same man, he is just with someone different.
Blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/12/10 12:58 AM
Oh BUT Atena, your WH is NOT the same man. He is a broken man.

Have you given any thought into a jar for whenever you think about the A, WH or OW? It will really show you, in a tangible way, how OFTEN you think about it all. Then you can start to change that. It is understandable, since you live where OW lives and work where WH works. It has to be so hard for you. (((Atena)))
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/12/10 05:40 PM
he is a broken man, but he is so entitled it is scary. He believes he deserves the OW and the free lifestyle he has now.
He will never admit to have made a mistake...never..he believes it is all my fault, he takes blame for nothing. If only I was a better person..he would have not been forced to have 2 A's (or more) MrRollieEyes
I put the $$$ in the jar and went to the hairdresser with it....

blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/12/10 08:04 PM
We all know that it a bunch of BULL.

I am glad that you did something GREAT for yourself with the money. You should go to a movie, or out for dinner. Bring a book with you so you won't feel out of place. Although, I LOVE people watching. Sometimes, in the beginning with all of the raw emotions, I HATED seeing couples together. It just hurt so bad. Now, it is almost as it was before. I don't feel as upset when I see people on love, I just miss it for me.

Were you amazed at how often you really were thinking about the whole sitch? I was STUNNED. I am sure that it is less now, had I continued with the jar. I also heard that you shoul,d wear a rubber band and every time that you have an unwanted thought, you snap the band on your wrist. It is supposed to make you not want to think about that anymore. I haven't tried that one yet.

Take care.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 05:08 PM
hi all,
I am finally on medications: this morning I called my dr. on the phone and he faxed the pharmacy the prescription.
Yesterday was a terrible day.
At work we had a saturday workshop to receive training on new software. It was a all day deal and WH was present..and guess where he chose to sit? Right behind me. It was embarrassing for 2 reasons: one, we do not speak to eachother and ignore eachoter completelely
the other: work collegues would come over and in a worried voice would say: how are you doing? everything ok.....It was obvious they were refereing to the sitting arrangement. And my WH must have hear all the apprehencion in those ladies voices ....I was a good actress adn did not let anything transpire.
After the first coffee break I moved to a different seat.
Later that evening with a few female collegues we went downtown. The city is very very big and full of tourists. We go to a restaurant and when I get out I see my WH vehicle parked a few feet from the restaurant I just got out of. He surely must have gone out to eat with her and that restaurant and the whole area where places where WH and me would go for romantic evenings...
I was a basket case last night,I spent 3 hours on the phone with my mom, telling here I did not know I would ever get over this. She finally said that i do have to sell the house as soon as I can and take a leave of absence and go to the states. She assured me that she was not at all for this solution but now she supports me. She begged me to erase my WH from my heart and mind and to know that he is gone, he will never be the same man. She said I have to stop hoping for R and undersdand that my WH has chosen a path.
She also confessed that she heard from relatives of my WH that he is happy now, he finally has the life he always wanted single, independent and with a younger woman whom he sees when he pleases. His relatives (an uncle of my WH) said he does not approve of WH behaviour but even with all the criticism WH heard, he remains firm about his choices.
So my WH will never R the M. I am so miserable now. I took the meds and slept 9 hours and plan to do so tonight.
I plan to go to work tomorrow even if I will be a slow moving zombie.
Will I get over this????
I love WH and can't seem to come to terms with the fact that my M is over....
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 05:35 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Will I get over this????
I love WH and can't seem to come to terms with the fact that my M is over....
blessing

YES, you will get over this. And you will come to terms with it, but you have to remove yourself. You have to get out of there. Once you do that, you will feel so much better! Come to Texas!

Also, you have to send me the recipe for lasange. I gave my sister my favorite recipe for lasange [made with Ragu and cheddar cheese grin] and her Italian friend stroked out and insisted this WAS NOT lasange! Whatever.. sigh That is how we make it in Texas!!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 05:44 PM
I will post the authentic recipe in a few minutes...just to add a few things..the authentic recipe has not cheddar, no and ricotta cheese. Sorry to break a myth..especially for the cheddar lovers in Texas!

I guess I was hoping the A would have ended soon, that is where all my hopes were hanging...but it is still going full blast and I hear he is happier than ever. It seem unfair that all that filth, lying and scheming ends up bringing him a better life, the life he wanted....
I miss the man I married and I know it is still there somewhere.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 06:16 PM
Here is the recipe for the lasagne (not Texas style)
Nooo

I am down today, if anyone wants to lift me up at some point,I would appreciate it. I am trying to make sense of what does not, and trying to figure out what goes on in WH head...pretty much all the time.
I know I will have to move...and will. But in the meantime...How to make sense of all this mess...and understand how someone who hurt you so much can be now happy and carefree...

Buon Appetito!
Italian Lasagne
� One pound of ground beef
� 1 onion, finely chopped
� 1 glass of red wine
� 4 cans of tomato sauce
� Half pound of grated parmesan
� Two mozzarellas Italian style (soft and milky) or half pound of grated mozzarella American style.
� I packet dried or fresh lasagne
� 2 tbsp extra virgin olive oil
� 2 tbsp butter
� Salt
� Pepper
Ingredients for B�chamel Sauce
� 4 tbsp butter
� 50g flour (about 2 ounces scarce)
� 1 tsp grated nutmeg
� 1 pint of milk
� Salt
� Pepper
For four people
Cooking Time: 90 minutes
Preparation (you can make as many layers as you want, but generally 3 or 4 layers are sufficient)
1. Heat oil in a frying pan and cook the onion for 3 to 4 minutes until the onion is soft and translucent.
2. Add the ground beef and stir until is browned and crumbly.
3. Pour in the red wine add tomato sauce and season with salt and pepper.
4. Bring to the boil, then turn the heat low and leave to simmer for an hour. If the sauce becomes too dry add some more red wine.
5. If using dried lasagne, soak the pasta in hot water for about 15 minutes until soft and pliable. Rinse in cold water and leave to dry on a cotton towel.
6. While the sauce is cooking preheat the oven to 350 and prepare the b�chamel sauce.
7. After an hour place 5 tablespoons of the meat sauce in a medium sized oven proof dish, flatten with a spoon and cover with half layers of lasagne.
8. Pour a 3 tablespoons of the b�chamel sauce over the lasagna and smoothen with a spoon.
9. Repeat this rountine for as many layers as you want to make and top with the remaining b�chamel sauce and sprinkle the grated parmesan and remaining mozzarella over the top.
10. Cover the oven pan with tin foil
11. Place in the oven and cook for 25 minutes.
12. Remove tin foil and cook for another 5-7 minutes until the top has reached a golden color
Preparation of B�chamel Sauce
1. Melt the butter then add the flour and stir thoroughly until the butter completely absorbs the flour. This usually takes about 3 minutes.
2. Remove from the heat and gradually add the milk, stirring continuously until the milk is combined with the butter and flour.
3. Return to low-medium heat and bring to the boil, stirring all the time.
4. Turn the heat to low and simmer for 10 minutes, stirring occasionally.
5. After 10 minutes add nutmeg, salt, pepper and stir until you get a thick smooth consistency.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 06:23 PM
Any suggestions for substituting the glass of red wine?
For Mel, and for my H as well.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 06:39 PM
omit the wine. However alcohol evaporates so the content will be gone by the time it is cooked in the recipe.
You can also use stock like a glass of chicken broth or vegetable broth..
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 06:41 PM
My H does not care about the "evaporation" of the alcohol. Which, I have explained to him.
For him, the flavor is a trigger.
Thanks for the recipe.
YUMMY !
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 06:42 PM
atena, your recipe sounds GORGEOUS.

My Italian sister-in-law (from somewhere near Rome) puts sliced (or it might be chopped) boiled egg in hers. You don't particularly notice the egg; it just gives quite a firm texture to the layers.

Now please tell me about your cannelloni.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 06:47 PM
can you buy them already made over there and then put you own sauce? I do not know how to make them. My mom knows and I will have to have her mail me the recipe because she does not do computers. I know is a long procedure but they are sooo good. I will get you the recipe in a few days...so start with lasagne for now...
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 07:03 PM
I am risking asking this I know...but what are the chances my WH could completely turn around and we could save the M? Should I pretty much call it quits as he seems to be lost in the A completely and he so entitled as to be declared hopeless? In a long long time he has given no signs of wanting to have anything to do with me...
blessing
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 07:57 PM
Originally Posted by atena
can you buy them already made over there and then put you own sauce?
I once bought the rolled pasta, but then had a terrible job trying to get the stuffing inside! I use lasagne now (dried and soaked). I put the stuffing in the centre and roll up.

Lasagne and cannelloni do take forever to make, and create a mountain of washing up - the bechamel pan, the pasta pan, the meat sauce pan, the grater, then the baking dish when everything has been eaten...

I have to be in a patient mood to make those.
Posted By: cabbages Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 08:31 PM
You "hear" he's happier than ever...you are only driving yourself crazy with this stuff, you are not helping the chance of R at all. What is it serving you? Do you think you deserve to be punished/driven crazy? Because what if it becomes finally over and you ask yourself did you do everything you could? By not going completely dark the answer would be no. You don't want that answer to be no! (((aetna)))
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 10:05 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I am risking asking this I know...but what are the chances my WH could completely turn around and we could save the M? Should I pretty much call it quits as he seems to be lost in the A completely and he so entitled as to be declared hopeless? In a long long time he has given no signs of wanting to have anything to do with me...
blessing

atena, you need to call it quits because it is unlikely your H will ever change enough FOR YOU TO WANT HIM BACK. Dr Harley told you it was unlikely he would ever change and I happen to agree. He has been this way for years and years. No way do you want him back like this.

I am sorry you are down today. But you know how to remedy that. GEt the hell out of there, my friend!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Here is the recipe for the lasagne (not Texas style)
Nooo

I am down today, if anyone wants to lift me up at some point,I would appreciate it. I am trying to make sense of what does not, and trying to figure out what goes on in WH head...pretty much all the time.
I know I will have to move...and will. But in the meantime...How to make sense of all this mess...and understand how someone who hurt you so much can be now happy and carefree...

Buon Appetito!
Italian Lasagne
� One pound of ground beef
� 1 onion, finely chopped
� 1 glass of red wine
� 4 cans of tomato sauce
� Half pound of grated parmesan
� Two mozzarellas Italian style (soft and milky) or half pound of grated mozzarella American style.
� I packet dried or fresh lasagne
� 2 tbsp extra virgin olive oil
� 2 tbsp butter
� Salt
� Pepper
Ingredients for B�chamel Sauce
� 4 tbsp butter
� 50g flour (about 2 ounces scarce)
� 1 tsp grated nutmeg
� 1 pint of milk
� Salt
� Pepper
For four people
Cooking Time: 90 minutes
Preparation (you can make as many layers as you want, but generally 3 or 4 layers are sufficient)
1. Heat oil in a frying pan and cook the onion for 3 to 4 minutes until the onion is soft and translucent.
2. Add the ground beef and stir until is browned and crumbly.
3. Pour in the red wine add tomato sauce and season with salt and pepper.
4. Bring to the boil, then turn the heat low and leave to simmer for an hour. If the sauce becomes too dry add some more red wine.
5. If using dried lasagne, soak the pasta in hot water for about 15 minutes until soft and pliable. Rinse in cold water and leave to dry on a cotton towel.
6. While the sauce is cooking preheat the oven to 350 and prepare the b�chamel sauce.
7. After an hour place 5 tablespoons of the meat sauce in a medium sized oven proof dish, flatten with a spoon and cover with half layers of lasagne.
8. Pour a 3 tablespoons of the b�chamel sauce over the lasagna and smoothen with a spoon.
9. Repeat this rountine for as many layers as you want to make and top with the remaining b�chamel sauce and sprinkle the grated parmesan and remaining mozzarella over the top.
10. Cover the oven pan with tin foil
11. Place in the oven and cook for 25 minutes.
12. Remove tin foil and cook for another 5-7 minutes until the top has reached a golden color
Preparation of B�chamel Sauce
1. Melt the butter then add the flour and stir thoroughly until the butter completely absorbs the flour. This usually takes about 3 minutes.
2. Remove from the heat and gradually add the milk, stirring continuously until the milk is combined with the butter and flour.
3. Return to low-medium heat and bring to the boil, stirring all the time.
4. Turn the heat to low and simmer for 10 minutes, stirring occasionally.
5. After 10 minutes add nutmeg, salt, pepper and stir until you get a thick smooth consistency.

Thank you muchly! That looks like more WORK than Ragu, though!! sigh I will share this with my sister so she can redeem herself with her horrfied EYE-talian friend. grin
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 10:08 PM
My H did mention you could buy pre-made lasange at Sams' but I suspect it is probably not as good as my Ragu version. shocked
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I guess I was hoping the A would have ended soon, that is where all my hopes were hanging...but it is still going full blast and I hear he is happier than ever.

It would be nice to hear about YOUR happiness and ways you can achieve that. That is the only thing you have control over, atena. YOUR HAPPINESS.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I suspect it is probably not as good as my Ragu version. shocked
Mel's Texas version:

First, lassoo your cattle...

(Please add the next line, someone)
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I suspect it is probably not as good as my Ragu version. shocked
Mel's Texas version:

First, lassoo your cattle...

(Please add the next line, someone)

Believe me, that ain't Mels' Texas version!! I could break a nail lassooing a cow, DUH!! flirt
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/14/10 11:18 PM
Mmmmmmm...thanks for posting that awesome recipe....((((atena)))Im just gonna add (even though you shouldnt care) hearing through the grapevine that your WH is happy is probably complete bullpuckey....I mean everyone believed me and my H were the happiest couple on the planet, EVERYONE...My H was soooo happy that he left me for someone else, ya know?

You will get over this for the most part...whether you leave or not....whether you go to a DARK plan B or not....but we are just trying to have you get to that point the fastest way possible....your way is torturing you.

I know I have been that route for the most part too...and I am still getting better everyday, but could have saved myself a lot of pain along the way. Hang in there Atena....
Posted By: cabbages Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/15/10 01:13 AM
>>>>I know I have been that route for the most part too...and I am still getting better everyday, but could have saved myself a lot of pain along the way.

(((stillhere))))) that's about the best advice anyone could give.

married 19 yrs
separated a month
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/15/10 03:12 PM
Thank you for appreciating the recipe.
The cannelloni are harder. My mom makes her pasta from scratch and I think she uses several types of meats for the stuffing...
I will let you know, but you sure need time to do it..it will be rewarding I guess. I have never tried! But I ate them...uhmmm

Regarding the rest...
Quote
atena, you need to call it quits because it is unlikely your H will ever change enough FOR YOU TO WANT HIM BACK. Dr Harley told you it was unlikely he would ever change and I happen to agree. He has been this way for years and years. No way do you want him back like this.
Could this basically mean that, even if WH come back to M (I can't even see how that would ever happen) I will have to take him back in his own terms...
Dr. Harley said he might come back and say: I am coming back but it was all your fault and you need to do all the work as I have no faults in this and the A helped me....
Who is the WH who would come back and say so and hope that the BW would take him back????????
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/15/10 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Could this basically mean that, even if WH come back to M (I can't even see how that would ever happen) I will have to take him back in his own terms...

It means the opposite. You would only take him back on your terms IF he changed dramatically.

I am running out the door and will answer your email later today, ok?
Posted By: beginagain Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/15/10 04:41 PM
Hey Aetna,

Your recipe sounds great, I'm going to try it! One question though, I noticed that there wasn't any basil, oregeno or parsely, or garlic even! Is this the american version to add all the spices?

Best,

ba
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/15/10 07:07 PM
No, in the region where i am from we do not add spices to these types of sauces, only to fresh, summer sauces
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/15/10 07:42 PM
Hi Atena,

I am glad you have gone on meds temporarily to get through this.

I too would obsess about "what ifs" but understand they are aliens as long as the OP are in their life. I have accepted this.

Don't believe that their life is a fairy tale. Unless it is Pinochioo turning into an A$$. They want you to believe they are happy happy happy. I would have visions of the "perfect life" they must be living.

There will will be cracks, their will be fissions but we won't see that.

XH told me he is so happy now but I know it is because he is drunk. I look at XH and he looks awful, bloated, red face from drinking and now bankrupct. Why would PP WANT to marry him? I look at him and I know I wouldn't but they wanted what we had and guess what they didn't get that. They got some mad scientist version. I am blessed that is not the man I was M too.

If XH had an "awakening" at some point he would have to come back under a MB marriage or non at all. If anything I know I deserve the best and so do you.

blessings.

Love the lasagna recipe. Unfortunately in my part of Texas it is almost impossible to get good ingredients to make a decent Italian meal. I am 100% Italian and seriously displaced here when it comes to cooking. Will try your version.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/15/10 08:02 PM
From what I am seeing of Wh he is in shape, rides a motorcycles, has few worries, does not live with OW and her brats and only sees her when he wants to.
He has not shown any signs of missing me or anything...it is possible that he has a better life than when he was M..otherwise he would come back to what he had.
I am glad the recipe is liked. YOu can find some ingredients but it is hard to find all the good stuff and expensive too
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/15/10 09:13 PM
My DS does not like ricotta...so I cannot wait to try your recipe, I think he will like it...and from the sound of it I think I will LOVE it...

My MIL is from Sicily and she does use the ricotta....but I also think that some of her stuff she americanized prolly. She also told me that in Italy that they would not make the americanized stuff, like chicken parm...she said they would not put red gravy on chicken they would put white....But she is a great cook.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 03:20 AM
Atena, I wish only for peace for you. Do you see now what happens when you have a close encounter of the wayturd kind? You start to obsess about him again. So how much money is in your jar now? Any thought into the elastic band on the wrist thing?

My grandma is from Udine. She said that she had never even heard of Pizza until she moved to Milwaukee. laugh

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 01:36 PM
Italian cooking varies greatly from region to region. Italy has been a country only since 1870 and well into the 30s people from the north could not understand people from the south.
The americanized italian cooking is a sicilian version of everything so that is why you see ricotta and lots if spices.
But the tradition of pasta making comes from a region called Emilia Romagna and in that region pasta and ricotta are mixed only to make ravioli with ricotta and spinach but that's about it...
Tomato is not used in every recipe and yes, chicken with tomato is not a widespread dish here in italy.

You all, I have been a basket case these days. After seeing him all day on Sat I just go deeper and deeper into depression and to the whys he really does not care about me etc... etc..
There are also practical financial issues where WH is bailing out from paying bills and other things...he is totally careless about the house and basically has ZERO responsibilities.
I am really at the end of my rope...I have counted...it has been 2 years and 4 months of this "episode 2" of misery without counting the 2 years of misery of "episode 1" meaning his first A.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 01:57 PM
Quote
Buon Appetito!
Italian Lasagne
� One pound of ground beef
� 1 onion, finely chopped
� 1 glass of red wine
� 4 cans of tomato sauce
� Half pound of grated parmesan
� Two mozzarellas Italian style (soft and milky) or half pound of grated mozzarella American style.
� I packet dried or fresh lasagne
� 2 tbsp extra virgin olive oil
� 2 tbsp butter

silly eye-talian left out the cottage cheese!! naughty Do we Texans have to teach you how to make lasange!? sigh
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 02:11 PM
I am alarmed to see that there is no reference to beef broth or ground italian sausage on this list.

Strange days indeed... think
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 02:16 PM
Cottage cheese twoxfour
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 02:16 PM
Apparently those Italians don't understand we know a thing or two about a thing or two here in America! We have Chef Boyardee!!!

[Linked Image from chefboyardee.com]

case closed! laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 02:18 PM
chef Boiardi, an italian, would roll in his coffin knowing where he was put into!! uhuh
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by atena
chef Boiardi, an italian, would roll in his coffin knowing where he was put into!! uhuh


Not if he tasted spaghetti-o's!! They are awesome! laugh
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Apparently those Italians don't understand we know a thing or two about a thing or two here in America! We have Chef Boyardee!!!

[Linked Image from chefboyardee.com]

case closed! laugh

And if we really want to put on the apron and pull out the casserole dish for a good old eyetalian throwdown, we've always got

[Linked Image from crossroads-market.com]
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
cottage cheese!!
Barf.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
And if we really want to put on the apron and pull out the casserole dish for a good old eyetalian throwdown, we've always got

[Linked Image from crossroads-market.com]

Yeppers!! We are bad!! laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 03:07 PM
You never know what comes out of that box! What if chef boiardi was a WH? would you eat anything a WH prepares!?
Do not risk it, make it from scratch...and leave the cottage cheese out with the sausage, spices and broth...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 03:09 PM
Originally Posted by atena
You never know what comes out of that box! What if chef boiardi was a WH? would you eat anything a WH prepares!?
Do not risk it, make it from scratch...and leave the cottage cheese out with the sausage, spices and broth...

I think I had better take your word on this...... Sister says thanks for the recipe! laugh
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 03:15 PM
OMG, Mel you are hysterical....I remember when I first got married and used (dare I say this on atenas thread) JARRED SAUCE!!!! My H was mortified....then I went over his moms for dinner and she used CANNED POTATOES...Blech...I am half Irish and would NEVER use CANNED POTATOES....I never even knew that there was such a thing...

She makes Thanksgiving dinner with no stuffing and no potatoes...WTH!!!!!!! She makes Turkey now though...but with soup and artichokes and who knows what else...I eat over my aunts..no way will Me and DS have Thanksgiving without REAL mashed taters,stuffing and cranberry sauce shaped like a can...NO WAY!!!

Now MIL used BAGGED ready made(just add water) MASHED POTATOES...OMG what is this world coming too....and I now would never use jarred sauce. I am proud to say Chef Boyardee is not allowed in my house...even though I grew up on it.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 03:49 PM
Quote
She makes Thanksgiving dinner with no stuffing and no potatoes
faint
Posted By: cabbages Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 04:04 PM
cranberry sauce shaped like a can, I love it!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 04:36 PM
Originally Posted by stillhere8126
OMG, Mel you are hysterical....I remember when I first got married and used (dare I say this on atenas thread) JARRED SAUCE!!!! My H was mortified....then I went over his moms for dinner and she used CANNED POTATOES...Blech...I am half Irish and would NEVER use CANNED POTATOES....I never even knew that there was such a thing...

Listen, I lived up in yankeeville for 15 years and will never forget my sister in law dumping a pan full of turkey drippings and serving Franco American chicken gravy instead!! crazy

y'all need to quit trash talking ole Chef Boyardee!! Spaghetti-o's are great!! grin
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 04:37 PM
I just remembered I once had eye-talian neighbors and they served lasange and crappaloni on Thanksgiving!! faint
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 05:12 PM
On thanksgiving with my family we would have antipasto, holiday soup (meatball and escarole) and then at the end would be all the turkey and trimmngs. Did I say I had a weight problem???

Here we just make the turkey but when I go home for Christmas it will be a food fest for a week. Did I say carbs
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 06:36 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
cottage cheese!!
Barf.

I know right. I tell people that I can NOT eat something that looks like someone else ate it and threw it up. YUCK

Funny thing about spaghetti Os in my house. My kids think that they don't like sauce so I call it soup. HEHEHEHE

Thanksgiving and Christmas isn't right without the turkey, REAL mashed potatoes, corn, pilsbury crescent rolls, stuffing and REAL cranberry sauce. It doesn't matter what you make the gravy with, I eat the cranberry sauce on EVERYTHING. wink
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 10:00 PM
Mel?...whats crappaloni?..... dontknow

Oh and Mel...I hate to tellya but spaghettios are not chef boyardee they are franco american naughty...another italians cooking I grew up on...Teeheehee TEEF...Thats how I know...I loved the little meatballs when I was a kid (BLECH)!!!!!

Oh and Mel...yur kinda funny. stickout

Oh and Scotty....PS cottage cheese does = barf!!!!sick




Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 10:23 PM
Originally Posted by stillhere8126
Oh and Mel...I hate to tellya but spaghettios are not chef boyardee they are franco american ...another italians cooking I grew up on...Teeheehee ...Thats how I know...I loved the little meatballs when I was a kid (BLECH)!!!!!

Listen here, eye-talian is eye-talian!! It is all tha same!! I am sure this Franco dude is some nice eye-talian fella. laugh
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/16/10 10:24 PM
rotflmao...... sigh
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/27/10 06:46 PM
atena,

I'm making your lasagne recipe right now. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/27/10 09:08 PM
It was very delicious.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/29/10 03:09 PM
Glad you liked it Sugar!
I know Mel means well. Maybe eye-italian is not her thing but I am sure she makes delicious Texas meats and goodies.

I just came back from my Thanksgiving trip to a major european lively city with a girlfriend.
It has been over a year of separation with WH and he has not shown even one hint of interested in R the M.
At this point, even during my trip, I still had very very sad moments where I missed him tremendously.
The point is....I know you guys are going to tell me I should not want him back the way he is even if he wanted to come back...but the thing is...he does not want to.
Is it possible that a WH can be completely happy being a bachelor in a place the size of a closet, living with very little money (he said thru my IM that he is short on money and I know he must be) and seeing OW daily when she can get away from her brats?
Or is he finally so happy because he could get away from me?
Is there any hope at all with a man like my WH to R the M?
I am sad. Taking meds but still sad.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/29/10 03:25 PM
"Is it possible that a WH can be completely happy being a bachelor in a place the size of a closet, living with very little money (he said thru my IM that he is short on money and I know he must be) and seeing OW daily when she can get away from her brats?"



It is possible that your WH has his head so far up his pitoonga that it will take him a while to pull it out....
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/29/10 03:26 PM
atena,

I had a little square of the now cold lasagne just now, and it was STILL delicious.

The answer to all your questions is "yes"; all are possible. However, nobody can tell you how things will turn out and whether H will go home to you or not. All you can do is protect yourself from the affair.

Are you applying for jobs in the US yet, or taking other concrete steps to leave that job?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/29/10 03:26 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Glad you liked it Sugar!
I know Mel means well. Maybe eye-italian is not her thing but I am sure she makes delicious Texas meats and goodies.

You know I love you Italians! hug

And you also know what I think about you living right over the OW and seeing your WS at work all the time. So I won't knock myself out saying it again!!
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/29/10 03:27 PM
but of course you are not concentrating on his stupidity right now....RIGHT?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/29/10 03:36 PM
I am not sure he is stupid. I just think he made a choice and he must be convinced of it if he never looked back.
OW plays a big role, but for the way he is his life will have many OW's. The catch is that he believes this one is the one for whom is worth leaving the family while in the past even if he cheated he did not think OW were worth as much as his family....
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/29/10 03:52 PM
I am not saying that he is stupid in so much as that his actions are stupid...that cannot be disputed...he left a wonderful person for a *edit* that sleeps with a married man. He is "stupid" if he thinks "that" was worth leaving you for. So maybe he is stupid after all....NO OW is worth leaving a caring, loving family for, that is for sure.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/30/10 02:50 PM
I am looking for jobs but so far all I hear is that it is too early to apply for education related position, or that I do not have the accreditations needed. I spoke to several people who moved to the states last year and they all regretted it saying their jobs are at stake. Again, I am talking education field, and a specific one too.
I still firmly believe moving is the solution, i do not see any other way I am going to get WH out of my head otherwise. It has been over a year in this plan B and I still miss him, think about him and hope he comes back.
It is a clear sign I don't have it all together either if I want someone like him back in my life.
The house we have in common is not selling. I just want out of this situation and in this country where I am at it seems everything is keeping me trapped here....
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/30/10 03:34 PM
Atena, when you get the heck away from him it will help you...a true plan B will help you get it together..

So for right now, is there anyway you can just move somewhere else until the job in the states works out?...I mean any distance will help you at this point. A different atmosphere or sumthin?

I still want my H back after all this time too, atena...I dont know if that feeling will ever go completely away...but I dont think about it nearly as much now, actually its usu when I am on this website....but it doesnt crush me like it used to...you need to get away. My H is in my head still but I can brush it away much easier now...time helps too...

Like Pep said to me...maybe its just gonna take us more time...I have my bad moments still...but very few of them.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/30/10 03:42 PM
I tried to be away from the house for a year and I do not have money left to pay both rent and mortgage. I have a $4,000 debt I have to pay for my education and then other expenses. I can't move till I sell.
Accommodation here is not cheap. It is a big city, unless you want to be in some bad area of town you need to pay.
I just feel like the first days he left...still totally into him and the A. Some days are better but I realize that till I move and detach completely my life is going to be hard...like a daily nightmare
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 11/30/10 03:58 PM
atena, Im sorry its so tough for you right now...I know the pain.
Posted By: kar Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/01/10 05:04 AM
I so sorry you are feeling so much pain. I am new here and have been following your post since you are in Plan B. I am in Plan A needing to go to B. I will as soon as my ducks are all in a nice row. Good luck finding a job and moving.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/01/10 02:56 PM
Karto, Still and all,
thank you. I have good news, I found a place where to spend the holidays when my son is here from the states. I will have the place for almost 3 weeks as "Marla" will be visiting her parents in the states for xmas and will leave her place to me. This will only cost me 75 dollars for expenses which is quite reasonable.
This will prevent my son from having to see OW on a daily basis. Even if his dad will introduce him to her he at least does not have to be embarassed about running into her in my presence.
I think this is a good temp solution. I know is just a bandaid and does not help much but I think it will make my son more comfortable and me less nervous about the whole thing.
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/01/10 03:44 PM
hurray Buone Feste!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/01/10 05:35 PM
Thank you!!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/01/10 05:38 PM
Originally Posted by stillhere8126
hurray Buone Feste!

skeptical
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/01/10 05:44 PM
skeptical ?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/01/10 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by atena
skeptical ?

what does that mean?? You Americans suck?? think
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/01/10 08:30 PM
It means Happy Holidays...Mel, you silly Texan.... smile
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/01/10 10:26 PM
Atena,

Just catching up.

Quick question. Why don't your rent your apartment out and then relocate to another apartment? Isn't there a good rent pool there? Instead of leaving your place vacant you can just swap one place for another at the same cost till a job comes through?

Very happy that your son will be there to visit. I hope he turns his father down flat to "meet" the OW.

Take care and God bless...

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/12/10 07:51 PM
Hi all, just an update..I am going to empty the marital place of all our belongins between Jan and Fen and then if it has not sold I will rent it out till it sells. My brother will help me with this so I feel better now because i have a plan.

I have been down a lot mostly because I m starting to notice other men around me (co workers, friends of friends, aquitances...)and they all seem to have even more problems than WH. I made a point of noticing and all of them have major issues such as alcoholism, cheating on their wives, major health issues, unemployment, mental issues...
Then I tell myself that WH looks good compared and I miss him even more.
Where are all these better men? Even for the sake of curiosity (since I m not interested in dating) who says that there is much better out there....when there is not?
I think OW got a good prize with WH, who is handsome, employed well read and fun to be with....ok, he is wayward, but they all seem to have major issues. Sometimes I can see why OW go after a married man....if the situtation out there is so poor actually scary.
Of course I am not saying I would go after a M man, but i can see the level of desperation in some women who have been alone for years in a jungle of messed up "single" men...
Is this a new trend where men are so out of wack?
blessing
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/12/10 11:38 PM
Atena, there ARE good men out there. Seeing the posts and countless threads from BHs shows me proof of that.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/13/10 10:56 AM

Maybe there are. I have not seen any and the ones I have seen are married, so off bounds, or pining after a cheating spouse hoping to (rightfully so) save a M.
Seriously...it is very sad out there. And I am not interested in dating. I can't imagine how frustrating it would be for a single woman with integrity to enter the dating zoo!
I miss my H, I do. I still do and will always love him
blessing
Posted By: mitzie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/13/10 03:14 PM
Just read your posts. Gotta tell ya, your holding up pretty well. I hope I do so well when I begin Plan B. Your story is so similar to mine. This is the second go around. This time is much more serious with OW. Was he just testing the waters with the first one? I don't know. Anyway, I feel your pain.

Queenie, question: Was your husband an alcoholic? I read you would hold your torah and AA books while you rocked yourself to sleep at night. Just wondering, since my WH is an alc.

You all give such good advice.

mitzie
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/13/10 03:29 PM
yes, the second time looks more serious because they decided to leave the family for OW so it must be that they truly convinced themselves that the M was not worth saving. I think our WHs have a similar train of thought. My WH is son of alcoholics and he himself drinks his fare share even if he is not a fallen down drunk.
I think this second OW is important to them because otherwise they would have to admit they were wrong...
so my gist is..they will try and make it work out with her and put so much effort just to prove they were right about leaving us for her. My WH will never admit he is wrong. He is convinced OW has so much in common with him and now it has been over a year after exposure (I did a nuclear one) and the A seems to still be going....but who knows what their relatioship is really like.
More than anything Mitzie..I always remind myself of what MelodyLane told me a while ago: "Atena you are looking at this all wrong...it is not that he will not come back....YOu do not want him back! not the way he is!!!"
You are in control now. The bar is set really high. We have to. After their first A we took them back too fast and they showed no sign of repentance. My WH went as far as to say that first OW helped him, that he would have committed suicide without her given he was so unhappy! He also said he was not sorry about it and that the M was terrible and he had no other choice: either have the A or kill himself. WOW. That is repantance?
I should have told him to take a hike and come back when he made sense and felt some remorse....
blessing
Posted By: mitzie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/13/10 04:18 PM
aetna,
I agree with you. I should have given him the boot 3 years ago. My oldest DS told me I should have, but my younger DS is a daddy's boy and just wanted his dad back, he still does. That makes me sad.

No I don't want him back! Not the him the way he is now.

My WH is also convinced he and OW are so much alike. They are kindred spirits. He thinks G-d put them together! My WH will never admit to being wrong, ever. I beleive this is a trait of narcisstic personality disorder

My WH also said the first A helped him. Showed him what "LOVE" was! I was dumb. I chalked the first A up to lust. He did not. He was searching, these past 3 years...I'm sure of it, for SOMEONE to rekidle those feelings of "LOVE" in him. He found it.

When the first A happened I took my wedding & engagement ring and threw them in the small lake we have in our back yard. My WH never wore a wedding band, so now we both didn't. My one DS asked why I didn't wear a wedding ring (in front of my WH), I told him I would wear one when dad was ready to give me another and commit to this marriage. He never did. He brought that up when he told me about 2nd A. He said, "Why do you think I never bought you another wedding ring? Because I'm not in love with you, that's why". OMG that hurt so bad. I just sat there stunned,I was always sure that one day he would buy that ring. I actually thought our marriage was getting better. What a fool.

Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/13/10 05:11 PM
Atena, glad you have a plan about moving. New year resolution that is positive step for you.

Don't dwell on the dating pool out there. I get lonely but for my XH when he was a real man. I have been D a year and have no desire to date. I like my own company better! Maybe I can date myself?? I am the perfect person to meet my ENs rotflmao

I think what did OW get? An old looking bloated drunk who destroyed his career and declared bankruptcy. What a catch.

We had the good years. I know I don't want a man like that and that is what keeps me going. If the real H ever returns I will know it. Till then...I work on me.

Blessings. hug
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/13/10 06:22 PM
On the forum I keep hearing the famous
"if and when he(she) hits rock bottom!"

What is the definition of hitting rock bottom?
Does it only apply to alcoholics?

Thank you
Blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/13/10 08:33 PM
As in all addictions including A, there comes a point when the wayward (Think Days of Wine and Roses), When they hit bottom there will be remorse, shame, regret and the only place to go is up.

It is not just for addicts but for Ws
Posted By: Mulan Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/13/10 09:40 PM
Atena, I think men live up to the standards required of them by women. If you don't require much, you won't get much. That happened to a lot of us here.

I think women are sometimes far too accepting of far too little because they don't want to be accused of being a "demanding b*tch", and think they are being helpful and reasonable and unselfish by not asking for much.

But there is a middle ground between between being a selfish drama queen and just settling for crumbs. It's our job to find it.
Posted By: Mulan Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/13/10 09:55 PM
"Hitting rock bottom" is usually defined as "it hurts more to be an addict than it does to stop."

But even if an addict or a WS does hit bottom as defined above, that is NO guarantee that they'll come back.

They might be too ashamed. They might think they've done too much damage. Or their basic personality may have changed so much from the damage they've done to it that they're not even the same person anymore.

atena, you must stop waiting and hoping that he'll hit "rock bottom" or that something will "wake him up". From what you have posted, he is perfectly content with his promiscuous lifestyle and has no reason to change it. There are just too many women out there who ARE willing to settle for part-time and crumbs, and believe me, he can't understand why you're not.

And plenty of addicts and waywards never do hit bottom. They go through life with enough enablers to always get them through and keep their drug coming. Your WH has gravitated to that sort of person and he has no reason to change.

But you do.


Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/13/10 10:33 PM
I dont see dating anywhere in my near future either....So dont even worry about that right now, atena...you are no where near ready IMO....

I will know when I am ready and so will you...I too, like you, dont think there are any good men out there for me(or anyone for that matter)....I think that they all have a one track mind and dont care about anyone unless they are perfect. And they can only be perfect when you are not married to them. Then when its not perfect anymore they dump you and move on... but I know that my WH ruined my thoughts on men....I just dont think I can ever trust anyone again, or maybe I shouldnt anyway...But I wouldnt want some guy that used to be nice then cheated and left his family for me...to me thats a loser...My WH is a loser to me right now...Yours is too, we just think of the good stuff...

I am jaded in my thinking and I know that means that I am in no way ready to date....maybe I will never be...and as for your WH hitting rock bottom...It will happen, but prolly not in your time frame...It might not be until 10 years from now, no one knows so dont count on it...just live your life as best you can. Worry about that when it happens, not now...by the time it does your prolly wont even care anymore, thats the sad part.

I am always giving you hugs atena, but I think you need them to help you be strong...(((((atena))))

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/14/10 02:30 PM
Still,Hope, Mulan ,Mizti,
thank you for your support and for reminding me what he is.
BUT some things are just infuriating, please allow me to vent because it has been a bad bad day:
The woman (Lilly) who gave me hospitality for 3 weeks when I first discovered the A....she (and her husband) knows what I went thru and still she talks, sits at lunch and laughs with WH while a few months ago she simply avoided him. This woman is 60 years old and shares a lot of the views my WH shares in terms of labor rights and politics. WH is well read and involved in the union so is she. Since I am not I think that, with time, the affinity he had with him when we were still together is coming back.
But how can she sit at lunch with him, talk to him and laugh with him when she knows what he did to me and our son!? Her son and ours are best friends.
She should vomit when she sits with him at lunch not talk to him or even laugh with him!!!! She used to stand up and leave at lunch when he sat down...now she no longer does so....

My WH acts very self assured, if I had done what he did and knew other people knew�I would dig a hole and put myself in it�.how can he be that way?????
He knows people know, especially he knows I spent 3 weeks at Lilly's and her H and that they know all the details.
Now, during the holiday her son and mine are coming back and probably Lilly's H, who I am sure does not know that Lilly talks to WH, is going to invite me and son for dinner. What should I do?
I do not want anything to do with Lilly any longer. In the past month or so, since union activities started full blast again, she has been avoiding me. I think she feels guilty about her talking to WH about union and pay raise....
But her H is a very nice man (he is 80 years old and like a dad to me) and her son is like my own son as he is so much friends with mine.
I do not want to end my friendship with this family which has been so supportive to me during hard times...but Lilly's forgiving bahaviour with WH is something I can't stand....
please help!
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/14/10 02:48 PM
Yeah, that is a tough one....I think unless someone has been through what we have that they just dont truly understand how disgusting our WHs really are...If I knew that someone left their family for OP, I would tell them to their face the reason why I will not associate with them ever again...unless of course they fix their mistake...

Obviously since she is avoiding you...she knows what she is doing is wrong....if it were me I would say something to her. See what she has to say about it...I have mutual friends that I have told that they could be social with WH, just dont tell me about it and dont talk to him about me....and they have chosen not to associate in anyway with WH, thankfully.

It is a tough situation with mutual friends and you have to decide whether you want to still talk to her if she associates with WH....and if you make a decision I would let her know the reason for it. You could choose to just be a casual acquaintence and not talk to her about anything substantial...you could choose not to talk to her at all...
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/14/10 02:59 PM
Lilly is the one and only who actually confronted WH over a year ago and who told him he was making a huge mistake and hurtin me and my son.
That is why I am so surprized by her behavior..however Lilly is an active alcoholic and I think her drinking now also takes place on the workplace....
Maybe she is losing it or losing her right judgment.
However, WH is a charmer both in looks and manners so he has been able to win lots of his collegue back, even the ones who had a hard time with him in the past....
He sure does not look like he is any where near hitting rock bottom...I think I am nearer that he is...
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/14/10 03:27 PM
Yeah, I know how you feel atena...I think I hit my rock bottom shortly after Dday....but anyway, my WH is exactly the same as yours...He is good lookin and has a gorgeous sincere smile...but as I always say...I heard Ted Bundy did too..

Me, well I have been a physical and emotional wreck since this all happened...I dont know that they necessarily win these people back. I think that just, unfortunately, over time others just slowly let themselves forget what WH did or it is just easier for them that way....as for us, we cannot forget the pain, cuz we lived it...and you dont know what is in others minds...

I know that my WH goes to pick up DS from school and yuks it up with the parents. prolly thinkin they all love him. Then the next day I hear about what was going on in their minds through their smiles...they say all they think is how they used to think how good lookin and nice he was and now they dont see him that way anymore...they say they dont even think he is good lookin anymore, they just see a scumbag. They say they look a DS and say too bad he is stuck with such a selfish father.

Looks are not everything ya know. People can see through a fake sincere smile when they know the truth....
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/14/10 03:35 PM
Still, I am sorry to hear about you being so down emotionally. These things take a long time and I know it will take me a long long time to get over him. I only had 2 man in my entire life: my first love, a boyfriend when I was 18 and then my WH. I am the faithful dedicated type and what eats me up is how my WH can go thru his daily life not feeling any remorse for what he did...and actually facing the world as if what he did is perfectly normal...
I will never understand that..maybe because it is not posssible to.
I know you feel the same.
Looks are not everything and will fade, sooner than they think. Those nice smiles are fakes and people, as you stated, can sense it....
I miss my H the way he was...but I set the bar so low for him and in a way I could only expect what i got from him,,,
blessing
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/14/10 03:57 PM
I miss my H too...I am also extremely loyal and I am the type that thinks that family should stick together through thick and thin....Maybe we ourselves put up with way too much of the thin and should have expected more for ourselves, IDK...I worshipped my H and I know that was a huge mistake....now I know better.

I may have helped turn him into the egotistical monster that he is now. I do think it eats them up though...they just are better at not showing it and shoving it down...you can only do that for so long...We are now better people for what we went through {even though we may not feel that way} They are worse...

Its a facade and I myself would not want to live that way...I would rather live in this pain than to shove down feelings that I have from destroying so many peoples (that I love) lives. At least I am living in truth and can only get better...They pretty much only have downhill to look forward to, ya know? Hang in there...We will both get through this...
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/14/10 05:27 PM
Still, thank you for your words. It is true, I also worshiped my H and put him before anyone else. I think that made him fall out of love. There was no challenge, he was too sure about me.
Just look at all the BH and how much they want their WW back. When they describe their WW I can't help it but compare her behaviour to mine. I would have not acted that way with my H even if he did not me my needs for the longest time. These WW are just not M material and yet the BH would do anything to have them back.
That shows me that if you are too easy and too nice...you do not get men to want to be with you. It seems that men have to suffer a little (or a lot) to come to appreciate a woman. Maybe I am wrong.
Quote
Its a facade and I myself would not want to live that way...I would rather live in this pain than to shove down feelings that I have from destroying so many peoples (that I love) lives.
I just think that they do not realize how much they hurt us, if they did they would be better people and act differently. The way my WH acts tells me he can care less about others. He only cares about himself.
Quote
They pretty much only have downhill to look forward to, ya know? Hang in there...We will both get through this...

For my WH the downhill will only start when he will no longer be able to have an erection. I think then he will really become very very sad and hit bottom. Till then, he will find plenty of OW who are willing to be with him. And he knows that. He is enjoying the ride (no matter how short or long it will be) till it lasts.
One of the last few words I remember him saying to me before we separated were: I just want to have fun, life is short and till I can I want to enjoy it.
So that's where he is at right now...
We will get thru this, but, for me, it might take a long long time.
blessing
Posted By: mitzie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/14/10 05:47 PM
aetna,
Sorry your down. Cheer up buttercup, happy days are ahead!! Now did that make you feel better? Good.

I'm having a bad day too. WH didn't come home & today is his day off - spending it with OW(skank!). Stinks to be me.

Lets be somebody else, okay? Today we will be highly intelligent, bright, beautiful, charming, UNATTACHED, sucessful, sexy women. The kind of woman all men want and other women HATE! We'll have it all goin' on. We'll be all that and a bag of chips too!!!

aetna, your WH never did try for a recovery, did he? and he's still with OW?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/14/10 05:55 PM
No, he left over a year ago and never attempted any type of recovery. He does not live with OW but sees her on a daily basis which is just his dream come true. He does what he wants and she delivers the goods at his doorstep...leaving her kids with her ex H.
I am attractive and could turn into that type of woman you describe....it would be fun for a while to see what happens..
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/15/10 08:03 PM
Well girls, I am walking into this pity party late.

I know with the holidays it is a tough time...brutal actually.

This is the third Christmas without my XH and his first as a married man to PP.

Under those circumstances I think I would be really down, instead I am almost enjoying the holiday. Had a few moments first time at the mall playing Christmas songs but I recovered.

This year DD and me are throwing a holiday Christmas party. We will probably have 30 to 40 people. DD17 is making the menu and cooking. She is very excited. This is the first year she is in a good place since all of this started.

Do I still love XH...well the man he was but I do know as long as he is with PP that man will not surface.

I do feel detached and it is a blessing. I also made new friends and forcing myself to get out more. I do not date but I am comfortable not going out.

Make sure witht the holidays post often. Two years ago without MB I don't know what I would have done. It is a safe place here.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/16/10 12:57 AM
Hope, I think the holiday party is a wonderful idea...and I am so glad to hear your DD is doing much better with all crap our WH put us through...I am slowly but surely beginning to feel detatched...like the H I once knew is a fond memory and it is now finally sinking in that truly, he just doesnt exist anymore. WH is a stranger to me now...sad but true.
Posted By: mitzie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/21/10 01:59 PM
@stillhear

Are you still in PlanB? You have no contact with WH 3 years now?

Did you give yourself a timeline? I guess that was passed a lonnng time ago, huh?

You speak of your WH being just a memory now. Adultery is like a death. All that the living are left with in the end is just a pile of junk and memories.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/21/10 02:49 PM
Yeah, I am supposed to still be in Plan B....I was not doing a great one, then I did real good for a long time...but lately I have been talking to him about the things DS does....like funny cute things that WH doesnt even deserve to know about....Its just no one appreciates the stories like WH does...

I have given up on my M, so talking to him is not ruining any chance of R because there is no chance....but it doesnt help me emotionally at all, so I gotta go dark again....My timeline is passed but I figure when and if I feel I am ready to go through with D, I will initiate it.....I am kinda stuck emotionally, cuz of contact lately...similar to atena, emotionwise....Oh Well...

Atena, I hope you are doin okay also.....
Posted By: mitzie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/21/10 03:20 PM
So I guess your for a dark Plan B.

Helps heal a BS emotionally better?

My WH is an alcoholic involved w/alcoholic OW.

I'm just hoping that a PlanB (and prayer) will help him help stop the drinking. He needs to for his kids.

Thanks.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/21/10 05:06 PM
I would have saved myself boatloads of pain if I continued to stay completely dark.....I actually was doing so good being completely dark that I thought I could handle talking to him...Now I am feeling the emotional effects...I think it may be a lifelong Plan B thats best for me.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/21/10 05:13 PM
And cognitive behavioural therapy. Did you do any research on it?
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/21/10 05:15 PM
Yes I did sugarcane...It looks good for me...I am gonna look into finding a therapist that specializes in it after the holidays....Thank you!!!
Posted By: LoveIsaChoice4Me Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/21/10 05:40 PM
Originally Posted by stillhere8126
Yes I did sugarcane...It looks good for me...I am gonna look into finding a therapist that specializes in it after the holidays....Thank you!!!

Going to jump in quick enough to post a link that I just, today, sent to my daughter in Houston...
RE: R.E.B.T.
(Rational Emotive Behavior Therapy)

http://www.rebtnetwork.org/whatis.html

My H, D & I learned this many years ago when our 16-year old S was in treatment! It is amazing how well it works when "used"!

Hope this helps...
God Bless ~
smile
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 12/21/10 06:21 PM
Thank you.....Im gonna take a look at that.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/02/11 03:44 PM
Happy new year to all!

I have been spending time with my son who is visiting from the states.
He has been here 10 days and his dad has not yet seen him. My son says he would like to see his dad but has not indicated any sort of frustration for the fact that they have not yet connected and made a date to see eachother.
Is it normal that a WS lose interest to this point? If it were me I would have tried to see my son as soon as he landed and several times after that....!
My WH's A is still going and I guess the fog is still very think. Is it possible to lose it all and only be able to think of the time he needs to spend with OW and that he does not want to waste by spending it with son?
I am very sad these days. I do not enjoy myself too much even with son whom I adore...he reminds me too much of WH and our times together as a family. Son is at a friend now and I finally have time to write
I am tired of being this way and of crying and missing WH...I would love to find a logic to his behaviour and to understand why he so easily abandoned me without any regret. How can a woman explain such a behaviour without feeling it must be her fault to be so repulsive...?
Blessing
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/02/11 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I am tired of being this way and of crying and missing WH...I would love to find a logic to his behaviour and to understand why he so easily abandoned me without any regret. How can a woman explain such a behaviour without feeling it must be her fault to be so repulsive...?
Blessing
It's not you, atena. He's a wayward. Nothing he does makes any sense.

I'm so sorry you're unhappy. I hope that things improve rapidly in 2011.
Posted By: mitzie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/02/11 05:11 PM
Atena,
HAPPY 2011 to YOU!

happynewyr

You sound so down...

This will pass. I think we all have times like that. May I ask you if you are on any antidepressants? I was reluctant to go on any, but my doctor suggested, as did MB, that will help. Guess what? They do! I do feel a lot less "weepy", it's only been about a month, but I can feel myself getting back to some type of 'normalcy' in my moods. Please, if you are not taking any see your doctor about trying some. They are by no means a cure all end all for problems but they help.

Don't be so down on yourself. What do the vets on here always say: The A is about the WS NOT you! That's hard, I know, but you are giving it all you've got, don't give up.

There really is no explenation for WS behavior. I wish I had one, I'd be sittin' in a beach chair, on an tropical island, drinking a margarita and countin' all my money laugh ! It is sad that sooo many WS abandon their kids and families(including,sometimes their own parents & siblings) all for the sake of "true love", which we know is "true lust".

2011 will be better. It has to be...

Enjoy your son's visit and send him off with lots of love in his heart from you.
mitzie
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/02/11 05:32 PM
thank you Mitzie and Sugar, it helps to hear it is all about him and not me. But this true love business must be more than just lust...it is lasting too long to just be lust....
My mom (who is italian) does not understand the wayward mind and keeps telling me that since my WH is american he is colder towards his kid because...don't americans send their kids off to college alone when they are 18? So what do I expect!
I wish she could read this forum and find out that being american has nothing to do with acting like a wayward...and his nationality does not matter.
When I tell my mom this she says she knows many italian man who D their wife but that fight for the right to see their kids, she says they want to see their kids even if they have OW...she thinks this estrangement is also a cultural thing...I totally disagree and I am sure nationality or culture hardly matters when a person goes wayward....
thank you and blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/03/11 04:45 AM
Atena, Happy new year even though it is not the way we imagine.

My XH has not seen DD17 for 1.5 years. Yes it is her choice but guess what he is doing nothing to change it. He transferred $150 each to both DD and texted them Christmas morning, probably enough to allievate his own guilt.

I know we are logical and want a logical explanation to their behavior. I had a difficult time about the fog, waywardness and addiction but see how common it is.

You mention true love business -- it is but in THEIR minds. It is not real.

Blessings.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 05:31 PM
hi all,
my WH finally saw my son yesterday for lunch and shopping.
My son and i at dinner talked about our separation and son told me that his dad told him he is happy now that he can manage his own time and do the things he likes.
WH said the only problem he has is with OW exH who is creating useless problems..(wow, what a subject of conversation to bring up with our son after not seeing him for so long....)
Furthermore WH told son that I still do not speak to him. He added that the reason of our separation was due to the fact that I was unhappy wherever we went and that he got tired to keep moving. He finally is where he wants to be: at the lake, doing hikes and enjoying simple things.
I told my son that that is not true and that the reason why his dad separated is becouse of his tendency to fall for OWs when problems arise in the M.
Son said that he does not believe his dad had a tendency to go with other women. He believes his dad did something awful to me and he condemns him for it, but he also believes that maybe his dad had no choice but have his two affairs when we moved to Italy and WH finally realized that even moving here, which was my ultimate goal, was not going to make me happy. He finally realized nothing would make me happy and started looking for hapiness in OWs. SOn said sometimes people make bad choices if they are in bad situations.
At that point I looked at my son in the eyes and told him how much pain his dad had caused me by his two affairs, pain that son cannot even imagine and how hard it has been in this past year and half to live like a homeless person going from one place to the other and trying to finish a graduate degree, holding a full time job and working in the summers.
I started crying and son told me: mom, i know this is very hard on you, all i am saying is that you and dad have 2 totally different set of values and that a man like him could but do what he did...cheat. He could have not chosen anything else because he was not willing to work on the M and he felt you scared him if he opened up to you. I am just telling you his side of the story, but I am on your side and totally disapprove of his choice.
I was devastated last night. Son spent all day with me today, he was very affectionate and hugged me a lot.
Son added today that it would be good if i would talk to his dad and figure out why he did what he did, but i told son that i have no interest in knowing that while he stills sees OW and that is up to his dad to look for me. Son said that if i do not talk to his dad then there are very little chances the 2 of us can get back together.
I told him that till he sees OW there are no chances i will attempt to speak to him and even if he leaves her it is up to WH to seek me.
Folks, my WH is obviously happy with his new lifestyle. He only saw my son yesterday and did not attempt to see him at all during the holidays not in the next few days before my son leaves to go back to the states.
It is very possible that WH has finally unburdened himself of family commitments and is truly happy without us.....
Is he a peculiar kind of wayward or is he just trying to put the blame on me and look good with our son?
blessing
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 05:43 PM
I'd encourage you to listen to what's underneath your son's message to you. Not the direct "dad left because you were never happy anyway" message but the message that you aren't happy with yourself, EVER.

I say this "gently" because it is a hard thing to hear.

You need a life. Not one that waits for your husband, but one where you don't need to know that your WH has or has not sought out contact with your son. Go out with your son and see the sights. Be a breath of fresh air for the rescuing he seems to be doing with you right now.

Your son is demonstrating that he feels responsible for your happiness especially because his father is such a failure and the cause of your pain. At some point, he's going to see that you are also making choices to be teary, weepy and generally unhappy.

I would vow to never have a conversation about WH with son again. Change the subject - WH is no longer a relevant force in your life.

Make sense?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 05:52 PM
Kayl, You totally hit the nail in the head. I am unhappy and my son knows i am waiting for WH to dump OW and see if he gets back to me. It is quite sad for my son to see his mother act like a poor little things who was kicked to the side of the curb and cannot get over a despicable husband....in a way it makes his dad look a lot better because at least he created a new life for himself, a life he seems to enjoy and a life he has chosen because he knows what makes him happy.
On the other hand, here I am, a pathetic thing who still lives in the past and in regret full of ifs, buts and whys....
I think my new year resolution is to never speak about WH again to anyone and to realize that I was really never truly happy with our without WH.
That is something I really need to focus on and it is something I cannot blame on anybody even if people choose terrible ways to hurt me I cannot use that to chose not to have a life....
blessing
Posted By: KaylaAndy Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 06:13 PM
Has your son gone back yet? There's still time to make a great impression on him. Don't tell him; just show him there's more to life and that you are interested in him and his interests today - now!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 06:21 PM
Atena, please stop talking to your son about his father. He is a kid who does not understand. All it does is tear you up. I agree with Kayla that you should focus on creating a great life for yourself.

The truth is that your H has made you unhappy with his independent lifestyle for most of your marriage. He is gone now and you have a chance to learn to be happy.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 08:11 PM
Hi Atena,

My concern for your son is that we do not want his views to become a legacy for his future relationships.

Even though your son is on your side and condemns his father, he mentions that it was your attitude that justified your WH behavior driving him to other women. That is a dangerous statement. No matter what the BS have or have not done -- there is no excuse for adultery...NONE. You do not want him to think this is acceptable. He needs to understand you work on the M and that married people do not date.

You do not need an explanation from a wayward of why he did this to your M. It is lies that only they believe.

Their is an old saying that says a "watched pot never boils" or something to that effect. As long as you are watching nothing will happen except to mess your own mind up. He put himself in the pot walk away and eventually it will boil over without your help.

blessings.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 09:05 PM
Hope, there is nothing i can do to change my son's mind about his dad, I cannot make him do anything.
My WH is a very smooth talker, incredibly smart and manipulative, it only took him a couple of hours with our soon to hypnotize him and make him believe all the bull sh@t he wanted to...and my son is not stupid. In a way he can see thru my WH, in another he is a kid who was used to a father who adored him and that now is faced with a harsh reality.

I agree with what Melody says, my son is not the type of kid who will understand. He did not take the stance he should have taken which would have been to tell his dad: look, what you did is revolting and I will not speak to you nor see you till you get to your senses again. But he will never do that. He knows he can easily lose his dad forever if he confronts him....
I will not speak about my WH to my son or anyone else for that matter. This is my new year resolution.
The forum really helps me as it puts me into perspective and gives me the fuel to make the changes i need.

I really need to create myself a life devoid of my WH and his life...which, by the way, I disapprove of and do not envy at all. That to me, it is not happiness, not for the set of values I go by...I could not live with myself if I did half of what my WH did to me. I could not do that to another human being no matter how unhappy he made me.
Truly, thank you all for your precious words and for keeping me focused on what really matters...to get my own life!!!!
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 10:15 PM
hope, Atena and I both have great kids, but they are also the product of 1 corrupt parent. They have been put in a terrible position and desperately want to believe both parents and maintain the love of both parents.

I don't bring this up to my son anymore because it is too upsetting to me.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 10:24 PM
yes, I know what you mean Melody. They are great kids but there is corruption on one side. My son also sees my in-laws condoning adulterous behaviour from both their son and their daughter. Their daughter broke up a marriage: she is now with a man 15 years older than she is and he left his wife and child for her. My MIL and FIL say that their daughter is not responsible for the demise of a M which was already on the brink of ending...so I suspect that is what they tell my son about my M....
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 10:43 PM
My MIL believes that affairs are nothing, that they simply mean the marriage was not happy. She puts no weigh on the OW or OM, she just thinks that when you cheat is because your marriage was unhappy....and you could not help it but look around...nice way to think...really! My mom never taught me that.She always told me that cheating was wrong and brought pain into people's lives.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 10:49 PM

Atena, my son has actually said to me "Mom, but look how much better off you are without him!!" This is what people say. And I try to explain to him that I am better off in spite of, not because of.

And I am sure he heard this from my own family. They don't say that TO ME, but I know they all think my current H is a great improvement and that somehow justifies my XH's adultery.

Oh well... I just can't drive myself crazy trying to make everyone agree with me, so I rarely bring it up.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/04/11 10:52 PM


Our pastor at our church gave a great sermon last month about children of divorce. He said that when a parent remarries that parent wants the child to be excited and really it is probably the most upsetttig day of their lives. Because a child or an adult child in their heart want their parents to get back together. It is death of a dream.

They love both of us and want that circle of love back.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/05/11 01:50 AM
And I think the proof that your DS wants the circle of love back is when he said that you and WH will never reconcile if you dont talk to him...that stood out to me...it sounds to me as if he was trying to get you to talk to WH so there would be that chance...it sounds like he is trying to be a mediator between you to so theres a chance youll get back together...such a hard position for him to be in...I agree with not talking about WH with DS...I think he is trying to fix something he has no idea how to fix.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/05/11 03:24 PM
The thing I really do not get is why DS, when his dad said: your mom still does not talk to me...did not tell his dad: well why don't you try to talk to her, after all you cheated on her not the other way around...
Also, why would he expect me to initiate talking to his dad? I guess it is because he knows his dad has no interest in talking to me and R and he sees me as the only hope to save the M.
Son believes that proximity with OW and distance from me drives WH closer and closer to OW. DS said that now his dad is alone and it is obvious he will cling and get more and more attached to OW who is the only person close to him right now.
Since I am out of sight and do not even talk to him it is only natural that his love for OW will grow.
I explained plan B to him and he understood the idea behind it...that actually letting the 2 cheaters deal with the mess they created without interfering might help the A to die...however, me talking to his dad will only make the A stronger...
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/07/11 11:15 AM

Hi all,
I just got back from the big city after taking my son to the airport to fly back to the states.
I have finally figured out why WH saw my son for only 3 hours during my son 2-week holiday here in Italy.
Yesterday, as I got home I saw WH biking and parking in front of our apartment building to have lunch with OW and her kids.
This morning, as I was going to work I witnessed my WH driving OW's car with her daughter in front and OW in the back seat. I saw them stopping at a cafe to have breakfast. Then I saw them again in front of school, WH getting off the driver's seat and OW getting out and kissing him goodbye. This in a spot where any colleague or student could have easily seen them.
It is therefore official that WH is trying create a new family with OW and coax her daughter, who is very reluctant about the relationship, to accept WH in her life and eventually in her mom's apartment. I am sure he is planning to move in with OW soon and needs daughter to accept this. I am also sure OW is using all her weapons to pressure him into this.
All and all I do not see a foggy WH. He is the man I married, only ....with OW, not me.
He is kind, loving and spends lots of time with her and her kids. In the 3 hours he saw my son he spoke about OW and the problems she has with her ex. SO he cares about her and her kids just as much as he use to care about me and son.
This does not look like a typical path for an affair. This looks different.
The A is getting stronger, WH is his old self with her.
I am having a hard time understanding all this....it seems to me that the cookie cutter "Affair will die and WH acts like a jerk" is not part of what I am experiencing.
He basically wrote us out of his life and substituted her and her family instead of us..
He has not contacted me nor is he nasty with me.
Please help, I am planning to schedule an appointment with Dr. Willard Harley because I am desperate to understand....
blessing
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/07/11 12:03 PM
What do you need help with, atena?

You know we are all sorry this is happening.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/07/11 12:28 PM
I know I can say anything on this forum even at the risk of making myself sound like a fool, a thick headed idiot and a fogged up BS....
but I guess what I really would like to hear someone say is that:
the A will not last, that he made a horrible choice and that, for now, he is just getting deeper and depper into the A with OW because he is "in love-lust" with her. Not living with her has helped him maintain the excitement and kept him away from the day to day ugliness of her family life.
But that with time, and if he actually spends more time with her and her kids, he will come to realize what a piece of trash she is....

or maybe what I want to hear is that:
He is happy with OW, she knows how to rub him in the right direction, she makes him feel important and values his support with her problematic kids and is grateful to him by making him her first priority and meeting all his needs.
She is not that bright and not that great looking, but she is there for him and keeps his mind off his problems at work and is able to relax with him and enjoy simple things...

I just need something to ease the pain while I look for another place to stay.
On Monday I am contacting the real estate agent to see if I can speed up the sale process and eventually rent in the meantime.

blessing
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/07/11 12:47 PM
Be assured that no-one here will tell you that OW is good for him and that she is better for him than you are. No-one will support their affair against your marriage.

No-one can tell you that their affair will definitely burn out quickly, either, but we do know that theirs cannot be an experience of pure happiness. I heard Dr Harley say on one of the radio shows that people who leave their families and go with their affair partners feel great unhappiness about the hurt they cause. Obviously, this is not more than the satisfaction that they get in the affair, but they know that they are doing wrong and they are not happy about that.

They do know that both they and their affair partners are trash for doing what they have done to their families.

Moving will bring you much relief. I believe you still work with him, though?

Solve that problem as well, and stop witnessing this atrocity.
hug
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/07/11 01:03 PM
Sugarcane, thank you for your post.
It is an atrocity I can no longer witness. Everybody would go insane if they were in my place. I am planning to quickly move out of there.
Jobwise I am applying elsewhere and I have to see what comes out of it.

Quote
They do know that both they and their affair partners are trash for doing what they have done to their families.

Moving will bring you much relief. I believe you still work with him, though?

I think my WH believes OW is the right fit for him. He told son she is a great person, very caring and patient and that her kids and husband are the bad apples.
I suspect he believes he is there to protect her from her ex and to teach her children the proper way to behave....he has a mission and feels important. I do not think it crosses his mind to think of her as trash....
He hooked up with her when, according to him, he no longer loved me and felt therefore entitled to seek love elsewhere.
He feels no guilt nor remorse for his actions.
If he ever falls he will fall hard...but given his entitlement he has to get deeper and deeper into whatever he is doing with his life now because he just does not see it....
blessing
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/07/11 01:41 PM
He is NOT the man/husband you married. The man you married was not a liar and cheater who abused those who would trust him most.

He RUBBED his filty A in your face and flaunted it around town and your work.

He has ignored his own son, for a relationship.

Is this the type of man you married? From your posts, I don't think so. She has a totally different man than you had. She has a man without a soul, or the dignity to keep his promises.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/07/11 02:11 PM
Listening to one of MB radio shows a while ago, Dr. H said that a WS who had multiple A's might not have had the feeling of love for his BS for a long while.
In my WH case this is his 2nd A and he might not have loved me for a while.
The difference between me and the OW is this: WH is in love with OW, he has not been in love with me for a long long while.

This is where her superiority resides, she can be as trashy as she wants, but he loves her and sees no fault in her.
I guess this is a hard concept for many of us BS to understand, but Dr. H has pointed out many times the powerful nature of romantic love. And how can one compete with the OW when WH loves her and love us not???
blessing
Posted By: Mulan Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/07/11 05:30 PM
Atena - you are trying to make sense out of nonsense. It's never going to work.

From what you have posted, your WH is a serial cheater who enjoys the lifestyle of having a wife *and* girlfriends. Like me, you refused to go along with that, so like me you ended up getting fired.

Now he's found a new employee who is easy and undemanding - someone he can manipulate much more easily because she will put up with almost anything to keep a man in her life. She will settle for part-time where you would not, and that's why he's with her.

He will be cheating on her soon, if he isn't already, but she will put up with it where someone with self-respect would not.

Again: Stop trying to make sense out of this. He wanted a woman who would put up with a part-time marriage, one he could bribe with money and gifts to keep quiet and look the other way and not ask him any questions. She knows how it works because she was on the other side of it.

THAT is why he is with her and not with you - and you and your son will be much better off for it.
Posted By: Mulan Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/07/11 05:37 PM
P.S. The Harleys, and the people here, can only tell you what "usually" happens in these cases and what people "most often" do when involved in affairs. There are no iron-clad guarantees about any of it. I know that's what you want, but I am sorry - there are no guarantees and no 100% reliable predictors of what someone will or will not do.

Your WH does not sound like a man who was faithful until he just allowed himself to become addicted to one other person, in a way that was totally out of character for him. THAT is what the statistics refer to when predicting what this person will or will not do.

Your WH sounds like a hardcore serial cheater who simply enjoys that lifestyle. There is nothing anyone can do about that. If it becomes more painful to him to be a cheater than it is to be an honest married man, he'll stop - but I don't see any signs of pain here.

This has NOTHING to do with "love", Atena, except for your husband's selfish love for himself. It really has nothing to do with you. HE WOULD HAVE DONE THIS TO ANYONE HE WAS MARRIED TO, IF THEY DEMANDED FIDELITY OF HIM.

Capice?
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/07/11 09:23 PM
Blessings....

I understand what you are experiencing since I work with both XH and PP slime. So I can say to you this, you CAN'T understand the craziness, the waywardness, the disrespect, the sleaziness because we do not have a wayward mind.

Your case is no different than anyone here. Why would you believe their's to be a love affair and other waywards to just be in a fog?

This is a process and it is not for sissies. He is not the man you married. Plain and simple. My moments (and they are only moments now) are when I am the only one to remember my real H. As long as he is with PP that man is gone.

I ran into a girl in the gym that got divorced 2 months ago. Her XH was a wayward. She broke up with him over 2 years ago. OW, drinking, horrible to her and daughter. She took care of herself and her daughter. Well seems that XH is begging to come home. Full of remorse, full of shame. She has raised the bar and he is trying to achieve her demands. She will not accept anything less than what she deserves.

This was a marriage that you would say was unrecoverable. You never know and I am amazed when i see a miracle unfolding before my eyes.

Don't over think about his A. Be glad if he moves in with OW and children and give him a dose of reality. The day my XH got married to PP, I thought this is the beginning of the end. When will the end be? I don't know and I don't guss.

I am too busy making a life for myself and DD.

Stay strong. blessings.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/07/11 10:58 PM

Quote
This has NOTHING to do with "love", Atena, except for your husband's selfish love for himself. It really has nothing to do with you. HE WOULD HAVE DONE THIS TO ANYONE HE WAS MARRIED TO, IF THEY DEMANDED FIDELITY OF HIM.
Capisco....I understand. Thank you Mulan, this is a helpful reminder. He would have cheated on anyone he married. I am pretty sure about that too, he just is geared that way.And yes, OW is totally a doormat. SHe will do anything to keep a man, she will do what he wants and accommodate his needs.
Plus my WH now is utterly alone. He has very few friends and fills his time spending it with OW because he has NO ONE else for now.
He might not cheat on her yet just because it is not so easy to find a woman who would put up with someone who is uncommitted and messed up like my WH is.
Only someone equally messed up and with very low self esteem can put up with him as he is right now.
It is sufficient to say that if he tells any sensible woman he only spent 3 hours with his son during the xmas holidays...her eyebrows will curl up...

Quote
Your WH does not sound like a man who was faithful until he just allowed himself to become addicted to one other person, in a way that was totally out of character for him. THAT is what the statistics refer to when predicting what this person will or will not do.

Mulan, this "non capisco" I do not understand the above...


Hope, thank you. I know miracles happen every day, but I do not see it happening for me the way my WH has been for the past 7 or 8 years...I can say it would take a very strong miracle to wake him up and having him beg me to return....but you never know!
And yes, if they move in together it is the beginning of the end....and I am pretty sure she is pressuring him to do so. The pressure had to come at some point or the other and it is beginning to make itself known...I am pretty sure.

I would take my WH back if he showed any sign of repentance. i am not ashamed to say so, but as he is now he would not repent, not for a long long while.
Thank you so much for everything!!!

Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/11/11 01:12 PM
Hi all,
please pray for me and keep your fingers crossed as we might have an offer on the house!!!
I am not 100% sure yet but it looks promising.

Yesterday while I was getting calls from the real estate agent I had to contact WH in a hurry to set up the selling price. so I could not use the IM's help even if I included her in my direct email to WH (IM is 7 hours behind me she is in the states).
Unfortunately since I used one of the correspondence done with the IM to include the IM in the message I also emailed WH past trails of emails between me and the IM which included my comments on WH not caring about son, on OW who might pretty soon put pressure on WH, on me taking sleeping pills and still missing WH...and wanting him back!!!
I realized what happened as soon as I sent it...so what I did I immediately sent a second email asking WH to disregard the previous and I noticed that he replied using the non-trailed email...so he might not have read all the extra info. He also added on his message that he was in a hurry as he had to catch a bus.

All and all WH does not seem to care much about the sale of the house. He seems to agree to whatever I suggest.
Real estate agent said he is mostly unavailable when she tries to reach him on the phone and he told her he is busy with other things and cannot be reached during in late afternoon and early evenings.
That is when he spends time with OW. Is it possible that this A absorbs him to the point of not caring about selling the house or delaying a sale?
How addictive can this be? The A will be 3 years old in March. He is in the fog more than ever...do you guys think he is seriously sick?

Thank you for listening!!!
Blessing
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/11/11 03:48 PM
Atena,
I have my fingers crossed for you with the house sale. Don't worry about your husband's response, try to get the best deal for you and look at it as a positive step to your new life..........
I think your husband is deep into the affair and that you should not waste any time on worrying about what he is doing, it's time you worried more about you and your life and happiness, let the obsession with what he is doing and with whom go......
He doesn't deserve your loyality or your optimistim that he will come to his senses..
You stay strong and I would suggest you say Yes to everything and anything within reason of course and see where life ends up...........many great people and places out there to meet and see.........
prayers..........jessi
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/11/11 08:26 PM
you are right, Jessi, all he cares about is her. The obsession is obvious and I have done all I could and now is time to look at the reality and see that he is not worth my tears and my time.

I am willing to take whatever is reasonable and move on. Getting out of this place will be a huge relief and stepping stone towards a new life.

His coldness, cruelty and carelessness about his family, son and now his finances is really out of the norm. It shows he is in deep fog and soul-less.
It is easy for him to be happy and free since he has only one thing to do. Spend time with OW and all the rest is a bother to avoid or to deal with in the most distant and quick way possible.

Blessing
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/11/11 09:44 PM
Atena,

You know what the best revenge is to live a life better than the one you had with him. Like I said he doesn't deserve you but there is someone great waiting for a wonderful, faithful woman to share a life with........
If you would only just say "Yes" to life and see where that leads you........starting new, fresh with a new attitude is the goal for you in 2011.
I look forward to hearing the new life for the new year for the new atena.......
(hugs)
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/16/11 06:22 PM
The sale of the house looks really good.
Yesterday I went to the real estate agency to ask a few questions details etc... THe head of the real estate agency is a BW! I gave her some MB tips, she said it helped to talk with me!
The agent said that she will make my WH work hard now as there are lots of other details (very tedious and boring) that need to be done and she will make sure he does them and pays for them!!
She also said she knows "my" OW as she came to the agency right before Xmas to get an appraisal on her house!!! So she might sell too and they might buy something together... WOW, that would be equal to my WH digging his own grave and shooting himself....good for them!
Even if she moved, I m glad I am selling the place.
Agent also said that OW told her how lonely and sick she is and how violent her XH was, and how so alone she is in the world with all her problems and her poor kids whose father is crazy!! OW whines a lot and with everybody and most of all...lies.
I am beggining to see the extent of the piece of trash WH got for himself.

Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/17/11 01:20 PM
Can someone tell me why people do not get plan B? or better the idea that I will never talk to WH again.
When I say that I will never talk to him again(after, of course the question: when are you finally going to talk to WH again?) people react by saying that being an angry person is not healthy for me. I am not angry at WH, I am just hopeless that he will change. But people seem to judge anger worse than they judge infidelity.
By the way....even if I were to be angry at him, would that not be justified given what he has done?

I guess I do not give a rat's behind about what people think, however it is puzzling how our society is quick to dismiss infidelity and quick at telling you "grow up and act accordingly"...when they have no clue what A do to a M and a family!!!!!!!
Blessing
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/17/11 01:48 PM
Atena,
The whole world has lost an important part of life, morals, commitment, loyality. I think those things to a lot of people are gone in today's world.........
It's okay to be angry and hurt by what has happened to your life......and if people can't understand that what difference does that make, let them walk a mile in your shoes and see if they didn't feel exactly like you do......
I think that once you sell your house and start over with your new life, people will see you respect yourself and that you aren't hanging on to a man that doesn't deserve you........
I'm keeping my fingers crossed, look at this as a new start, and if your husband drives his life into the ditch then let him, he deserves to understand how selfish decisions can ruin even his life.........time will tell, living a better life than the one you had with him is the best revenge.............work towards that goal, you will look back one day and wonder why you gave so much of your life to this situation.......
keep your chin up girl..............
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/17/11 03:04 PM
So true. I will be much better off when I am out of there.
I am actually starting to feel much better just knowing that there is a strong possibility I will be moving.
All of a sudden I feel much much less for WH, almost nothing really.
I had lunch with a friend this week end. She is a therapist and said she think my WH is nacissistic with very little hope, if any, of changing.
I see it as if he is sick, with an illness that is chronic and progressive with no hope for a cure or getting better.
Thinking of it that way makes perfect sense to me and has helped me to let go.

Blessing
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/17/11 04:39 PM
Good for you............ look how strong you are now, you have grown and that will just keep on going until your life will be just the way you want it.

Happy with you and who you let in your life, people that don't want to hurt you, people that will enjoy your company and rejoice in your life............

Where are you thinking of moving, have you given it any thought yet?
happy for atena,
Posted By: mitzie Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/17/11 05:05 PM
Atena,
It does help to see WH as being sick with a chronic illness. One that we as BS will never understand. In my case it's not just the A or the fact that I do beleive he has a type of personality disorder but he is an alcoholic as well.

I stopped at my church and lit a candle and prayed. pray I put everything in God's hands. My life, my WHs life, my children' lives, the A, his alcoholism, all of it. I can really do no more than that. Beleive that God has a plan for each of us, we cannot dictate or override that plan. I don't want to get too preachy so I'll stop.

Just know Atena that where ever you go God's watching out for you. smile

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/22/11 06:01 PM
good news first...99% that the house is sold!!! The buyers will have to sign some stuff and then apply for a loan and in a couple of months we should be able to close...
In the meantime, today, when I was walking out of my place OW was coming up the stairs (I saw the scene from my steps as I was walking down) and she had heavy bags to carry so she rang her door bell for her daughter to open and guess who opened instead? My WH!!!! He was there and he surprized her so she gave a shrill of joy that was revolting to hear. I almost vomited! He kissed her and she was soo overjoyed, they closed the door and I hear laughter and kisses....
They did not see me, or maybe he did but she did not....
The A is getting better and better and they are more and more in love....how is this possible?
I know I should not ask myself these questions but can't he see what a ho she is????
He also does not care now but comes right to her place...I guess they will soon move in together once I get out.
I am so sick now.
Thank you for listening!!!!
Thank God for this forum!
blessing
Posted By: Harmony2010 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/22/11 06:11 PM
Originally Posted by atena
good news first...99% that the house is sold!!! The buyers will have to sign some stuff and then apply for a loan and in a couple of months we should be able to close...

WOW Atena, this is such good news. You are such an inspiration you know!! You have made me think real serious about getting my house on the market.

Good for you.

PS. Miss calling you Antena. frown
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/22/11 06:17 PM
Still, what my WH is doing....hurts

Blessing
Posted By: Harmony2010 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/22/11 06:25 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Still, what my WH is doing....hurts

Blessing


Yes I am sure it does.

HOWEVER

There is a new life waiting for you out there.

With men who DON'T cheat.

Who love and stand by you.

Who appreciate you for what you are.

You deserve this Atena.

I just saw my Dad pass, it reminds me that life is short, and you have wasted so much time on this man.

Go have some fun, get the divorce filed and open your life up to what is out there waiting for you.

Time to take care of YOU.

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/22/11 11:42 PM
Thank you Harmony.
I did dedicate too much time to this man, yes. I just need to move out of here and spare myself the pain of seeing how low he can go and how much his wayward lifestyle has brought him to be fully into his current addiction (the A).
It is actually revolting to see a 50 year old man come to a place he used to live with his wife and son and then enter a different apartment. this is done with total indifference..and with a stone face.
Blessing
Posted By: mymissy Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/23/11 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by Harmony2010
Originally Posted by atena
Still, what my WH is doing....hurts

Blessing


Yes I am sure it does.

HOWEVER

There is a new life waiting for you out there.

With men who DON'T cheat.

Who love and stand by you.

Who appreciate you for what you are.

You deserve this Atena.

I just saw my Dad pass, it reminds me that life is short, and you have wasted so much time on this man.

Go have some fun, get the divorce filed and open your life up to what is out there waiting for you.

Time to take care of YOU.

Amen!!!!!!
It will hurt for a long time, but will continue to lesson. I am beginning to learn that the baby steps forward is a healing process itself. I believe that there is something better for all of us - and that is WH's loss.
Sounds like your are starting to take those steps.
Hugs and prayers
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/23/11 03:47 PM
Thank you!
This house is like an anchor that keeps me stuck in the mud. Once I lift it, which is happening now with the sale of the house, I will sail away and not look back.

Sometimes I just wonder about WH not so much because I care (I have no love left for him, I know that because I can look at pics of him now and feel nothing, or I can even cross paths with him and feel nothing....)
but mostly just to know why he is so much into this OW, as if the entanglement increases. The sale of the house will certainly entice OW to get WH's share of the small profit we will make...also, the sale of the house represents the end of what they would call the A and the beginning of a "normal" relationship. I will no longer be there and there will be no need to be secretive when he visits...he can actually move right in with her...
I know theirs is not true love, but I never had with WH what he has with her...his total attention and his total interest to the point she is the only person he sees socially.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/28/11 09:08 PM
Hi all,
well, I just discovered about swingers.
OK, there is a couple, teachers, who work at my school. He hits on all the female teachers and does things with other teachers without his wife being around and vice versa.
I was told by too many people now that they are swingers, basically they look for other partners (I guess that's what it means)
So yesterday I got an email from him telling me he would teach me how to ski (I had told someone at school I did not know how to) and take me out one day just me and him. Then he sent me another email today telling me he would ride the bus with me.....
I did not respond to either and kept a very cold distance when I run into him again.
I was told by a friend of mine that this kind of behavior is very common in big cities in the States and probably all over t he world
What kind of filth is this...????
We are worried and pained about adultery and then there are couples who not only welcome it, but actively seek it?????
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/28/11 09:49 PM
I am not looking for any kind of feedback or comments about swingers, i am just witnessing more and more how morals and integrity are gone from our society....it is just denigrating to see how people will do anything and have to remorse or guilt about it.....
and jet, the world keeps on rolling and these people teach kids every day (little ones too!!)
Revolting

Blessing
Posted By: Mulan Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/28/11 09:51 PM
Well, in the U.S. at least, the terms usually go like this:

What you describe is an "open marriage". The partners are legally married, but free to seek out other sex partners if they want to. There are usually some rules, like the spouse is supposed to be informed if/when the other one sleeps with somebody else.

Swingers are usually couples who have sex parties with other swinging couples. They cheat together, instead of individually as in an open marriage.

These are both just examples of people trying to be both married and single at the same time, and thinking they've found a way to do it. It never, ever works in any form - not for long - but they keep trying anyway.
Posted By: Mulan Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/28/11 09:54 PM
sorry - I posted info anyway, before I saw your last post.

atena, unfortunately this is nothing new. Sick morals, selfishness and cruelty have been a fact of life since the dawn of civilization. We're just hearing more about them now, which may be a blessing in disguise - if it's not a secret anymore, and the pain and destruction is wide open for all to see, *maybe* some of it will start.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/28/11 09:57 PM
Hi Mulan,
can't imagine it would work. I think after a while one partner wants more commitment and the other wants to keep swinging...
And you are right the politically correct term is "open M"
I wish i could report them, but have no grounds for it and I am afraid that i would be told that if it is ok for the H and W to have this agreement then we should jot intrude in their personal and private sexual life....
blessing
Posted By: Mulan Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/28/11 10:54 PM
I've seen a few interviews with wives who've been persuaded to go along with these arrangments, and they always always say the same thing: "Well, if he's going to be with someone else anyway, and most men do, I'd rather know about it. This way, at least I know."

And my response is always the same thing: "Honey, what on earth makes you think he'll be honest about this anymore than he would be with any other form of cheating??"
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/28/11 11:07 PM
Firstly, unless you have heard it from the W herself, you can not be certain that they actually ARE swingers and it isn't something that this WH tells his "interests" so they would be okay with it(seriously WHO WOULD BE OKAY WITH IT? puke )

Secondly, I would actually respond to this man. I would say, "I am not interested in spending any time alone with a married man. Please do not contact me anymore." But that's just ME. laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 01/31/11 03:08 PM
Hi all, should know about the house sell in 5 days. Looks good.
I am actively looking to move out before the closing date which is end of May. I have looked at a few places and I am sure I will find something...can't wait to be out of there.

In the meantime..I spoke to SIL yesterday and MIL is sick and needs to have surgery which seems serious. I will call MIL to give her my best wishes. I think that is in order.

WH is still the same, after 1 and half years in plan B, I think we will probably never speak to eachother again for the rest of our lives. I run into him today and his hatred towards me is very evindent. He looked old and depressed, evidently he is only happy with his drug of choice (OW) but for the rest his life seems pretty miserable....
I do not love him any more and felt nothing today when I saw him.

blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/01/11 04:54 PM
Hi Atena,

Just catching up to your posts. Praying your house sells.

I agree to contact MIL and wish her well. That was your family too.

Keep doing what you are doing and work on yourself. We cannot change WH only ourselves. I have built confidence and strength through this even though there are times that I have the sadness of the destruction of our M.

Plan B will keep you safe.

blessings .
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/10/11 07:30 PM
bump for atena..

How are you doing?

Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/13/11 06:23 PM
Just an update... the house sold!! and i have to move out end of May, however I have been looking for a place to live now and hopefully will find what I am looking for soon. I am also making contacts for a job and there might be openings in my field.

I have been socializing with female friends and have some fun finally.
I do not see WH much, but the last time i saw him from a distance in the city where I live, he was strolling with a woman who was not the OW, so he might be already cheating on OW,,,,or the new woman might just be a friend...by what he means by female friend.
I have mixed feelings about him, i know it is over and can finally see who he really is...on the other hand there is a very small part of me that still hopes he will change...I hate that small part of me, stupid and stubborn.
Strange how much we hang on to hope when reality shows us over and over again: the truth. Yet we still secretly hope WH will come back to his senses. FOr me, after one and half years of plan B i can pretty much say it is over.
Thank you all
blessing
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/13/11 06:27 PM
Quote
there is a very small part of me that still hopes he will change

Let's continue to hope he will change (for the better) for his sake.
Let's never stop hoping that hope for each other.

We want "him" to change so he can be a better man.
With or without you.
Change for the betterment of him.

The hope that others might/will change for our benefit has a completely different flavor.
Would you agree?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/13/11 06:32 PM
Yes Pepper, you are right, I am as selfish as he is sometime. i just hopes he changes for me and comes back to me. Key word: ME.
I do hope he changes for himself. It is sad to see a 50 year old man running after women 15-20 years younger...you sort of see the end of that...where it is heading. Not good.
I do love him in spite of it all, and wish him all the best.
thank you
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/13/11 06:43 PM
Sometimes i get the urge to do something crazy...like send a message to WH saying "I love you still, let's talk"
Crazy, I know..
What would happen if I sent a message like that.
Would he be like...is she really thick...crazy...what????
blessing
Posted By: AndyM Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/13/11 06:47 PM
atena - wow! You've travelled a long and difficult journey. Posts like yours are important wayposts for those of us just starting down the path. Like most BS, I'm still hoping for the best, but now planning for the worst.

I'm both happy and glad that you sound hopeful about the future, but that little stubborn voice is one that I'm afraid of down the road too. Right now, WW is still the love of my life...sigh..
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/13/11 06:53 PM
Sad but true, but my WH, in spite of all the sh@t he put me thru for the past 7 years (7 years!!!!) is still the love of my life.
OK, what is love? Is it conditional? Then it is not love.
It is a thrill?? a swing of the pendulum (Up and down: a high and then an inevitable low) Or is it giving love, no matter what the other person does? Love and nothing back expected. Love for hate?
I think yes, love is that and only that. The rest is just a play of opposites. I am up now and later I will inevitably be down.
I love my WH. I do but can't get hurt anymore...
blessing
Posted By: AndyM Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/13/11 07:08 PM
atena - that's so sad and so unnecessary. I agree with you, love should be unconditional or as close to that as possible. Some folks just want that fresh, adrenaline rush of a new love I suppose. Right now I'm making the same bargain, love for hate. She hates me right now, of course exposure only occured about a week ago.

This is likely going to be a long and unpredictable journey for me, just like everyone else.

Hang in there!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/13/11 07:16 PM
Andy,
thank you.
At times it seems unpredictable, but really,..it is very simple. WS are just that: wayward.
You love them,maybe even unconditionally, but self-preservation dictates that you protect yourself from the crazy and hurtful action of other.
So here it goes: you need to protect yourself and stay away from her...she might never come back to herself again.
It is her choice.
You have to know that and accept it.
It is hard but you can do it
Keep loving, hate is not the answer, but also love yourself.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/23/11 04:15 PM
Hi all,
I just have a question about something. I am listening to MB radio and what Dr H is describing when he talks about spending 15 hours of undivided attention with your spouse is what OW and WH are doing.
So how can As die if the people in it keep spending time together such as lunches, conversation, recreation, good sex....
I mean, if the A partners do not live together their A can go on forever because they spend at least 15 hours of quality time together and do not have to share the day to day burdens of living together...
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/23/11 04:54 PM
Originally Posted by Pepperband
Quote
there is a very small part of me that still hopes he will change

Let's continue to hope he will change (for the better) for his sake.
Let's never stop hoping that hope for each other.

We want "him" to change so he can be a better man.
With or without you.
Change for the betterment of him.

The hope that others might/will change for our benefit has a completely different flavor.
Would you agree?

Atena, When I came on this board I always had "hope" that XH would change. Even the screen name I chose bellied this "hope".

Do I still have hope..some but more so these days I have faith. "hope" only gets you so far...but Faith that is something real.

I have faith through others on this board that anything can happen
I have faith through all the statistics on affairages
I have faith that I am working through my own plans and doing what I am supposed to be doing for my own family.
I have faith in God and His good grace.

I have stopped asking for reasons for their waywardness and know they are just "aliens" right now. They could change in a second or not but we always have to prepare.

Blessings.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/23/11 07:22 PM
Atena, affairs CAN last for a long time, especially if those waywards are really good a lying, TO THEMSELVES.

We know why 50 year old men, chasing after women 15-20 years younger ends badly, but do those men? Nope. They lie to themselves and they believe their own lies. Waywards lie to themselves the most. They aren't following their true path. That is truly the saddest part of it all, seeing someone who COULD be so much more, wasting their lives being so much less. Wayward or not, it's sad.

Posted By: SusieQ Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/23/11 08:13 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Hi all,
I just have a question about something. I am listening to MB radio and what Dr H is describing when he talks about spending 15 hours of undivided attention with your spouse is what OW and WH are doing.
So how can As die if the people in it keep spending time together such as lunches, conversation, recreation, good sex....
I mean, if the A partners do not live together their A can go on forever because they spend at least 15 hours of quality time together and do not have to share the day to day burdens of living together...
blessing

But you can't maintain the feeling of romantic love using just the 15 hrs UA time. The whole romantic part doesn't work without POJA/PORH which Dr H has written before that either one or both in an affair most likely WON'T be willing to use.

The problem a WS has of not treating the relationship with extraordinary care, which IS the basis for using all the other principles to maintain romantic love ~ meeting ENs, avoiding LBers, POJA, is what eventually leads to the affair falling apart...
Posted By: newsong11 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/23/11 08:22 PM
atena, it will not die if they keep spending that time together! That's why its so important for the A to stop immediatley. Im thinking what you're asking is when the BS is in plan B and the WS is still seeing the partner?

Well in that case, that's when the A is allowed to take its course. Everyone knows it has a slim chance of thriving long enough. The very behavior that started the affair ends up killing it. The fog is then lifted.

The WS sees it for what it really is. They may or may not be able to go back to the BS. Hard life lesson.....
Posted By: StuckWaiting Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/23/11 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by atena
So how can As die if the people in it keep spending time together such as lunches, conversation, recreation, good sex....
I mean, if the A partners do not live together their A can go on forever because they spend at least 15 hours of quality time together and do not have to share the day to day burdens of living together...

This is why exposure is so critical. Exposure leads to all kinds of LBs between the APs as they wrangle with all the "real" issues they didn't have to deal with before.

When exposure alone isn't enough to kill the A, then yes... spending all UA time creates the feeling of romantic love and creates that addiction that is so tough to break.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/23/11 08:56 PM
Newsong, she is in Plan B.

Originally Posted by StuckWaiting
When exposure alone isn't enough to kill the A, then yes... spending all UA time creates the feeling of romantic love and creates that addiction that is so tough to break.

No, the UA time alone doesn't maintain the romantic love. Dr Harley has covered this both when discussing what spouses need to do in working his program and also when discussing the problems that affairages have...
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/23/11 09:04 PM
This is from Dr Harley's Plan A/Plan B article.
Quote
As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success. That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 02/23/11 09:38 PM
Thank you all for you wonderful posts.
I tend to forget that A aren't really the union of 2 free people who fall in love in a "clean" way.
It is the union of 2 (or at least one) married persons in a filthy way.
So there are many ingredients missing in the mix and spending lots of time together is not enough if other elements are not in place.
Let's face it, the APs do not have many fond memories of the beginning of their relationship. What are they going to get a kick oN the : "do you remember when you used to sneak behind your wife and son's back". Wow that's thrilling.
ANd yes, once the passion wanes, and it will, how do they rebuild it?
They fake that the BS is back on the scene so they can sneak behind her back again and have exciting sex.
I just do not think WS realize how much of the passion of the A is actually based on sneaking and secrecy.
They think once the A is exposed they can finally stop living a lie and see the OP without hiding.
But I think that after a few months the thrill they used to get out of sex and seeing OP is greatly diminished.
They might attribute this to the relationship normalizing, but then exposure starts to work its magic and the [censored] eventually hits the fan.
And it is true, the more the WS is in denial the more he would want the A to work out, because if it does not....then that means he was wrong...and he is not wrong, of course not!! Or if he is, he will never admit it.
Well, I am going to move in less than a month. I found a great little appartment and I am now in the process of throwing away lots of junk from my M.
Feels like a relief.
Thank you and blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 01:22 PM
Hi all,
i am doing better, it shows from me not posting every day as I used to...however just yestarday 2 friends said both the same thing to me. That they wanted me to know how good i am doing and how good i look and wanted me also to know how bad my WH looks. They both said he looks aged and un-kept. They added that it is strange I look so much better given I am the one who was dumped.
They said WH should be happy given he has everything he wished for: his freedom, OW, no family responsibility.
They believe he is finally seeing what he has done.
I disagreed saying that if he did finally see what he has done he would not be with OW.
Anyway...go figure why he looks bad.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 01:33 PM
Hi buddy! How long until you move?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 01:47 PM
I move in 3 weeks...I just called the movers.
Is getting close..

blessing
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 01:48 PM
Originally Posted by atena
i am doing better, it shows from me not posting every day as I used to...however just yestarday 2 friends said both the same thing to me. That they wanted me to know how good i am doing and how good i look and wanted me also to know how bad my WH looks. They both said he looks aged and un-kept. They added that it is strange I look so much better given I am the one who was dumped.
Hurray!
hurray hurray hurray
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 01:57 PM
Sometimes I think people project their bias or judgment on WH and expect him to look bad so they see him as looking bad. But in my case I have to say that the rare times I saw him he did look un-kept.
The mystery to me is: if he looks bad and maybe feels bad...why does he keep seeing OW? Did the doctor prescribe her as a cure for something????

blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 02:01 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I move in 3 weeks...I just called the movers.
Is getting close..

blessing


yippee!!! Are you getting excited?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 02:32 PM
I am actually very sad. Been very depressed these past days. I guess the sale of the house, the move and the fact that WH is still with OW are the final tombstone on my M which, at this point, has not hope to go anywhere....
I guess it is a natural feeling...
blessing
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Did the doctor prescribe her as a cure for something????
I'm sorry to laugh when you are feeling low, atena, but that was funny!!!
rotflmao
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 03:27 PM
It is pretty funny, I admit it. And it really comes across that way...unless he is unhappy in every other situation except when she is with him. Then that's bad news for him.
I guess most of all I am upset at how stupid he is. He does look miserable, but then maybe he has been so for years. He was and looked miserable when he was with me, and things have not changed now that he is with her.
Even Dr. H said that WS are mostly unhappy in their new relationship with the AP.
blessing
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 03:36 PM
To heck with h i m.
Now, on to new and wonderful things (if you dare seek them) !
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 04:55 PM
Hi Atena,
How do you like where you are moving? Maybe open it as a bed and breakfast so we can all visit! Love your current country.

Once you are out of that house you will feel better. You will have no reminders of OW and XH because you can't visualize them in your new living quarters. That will be a good thing because you can focus on yourself.

We do end up looking better because we are living a better life. Not perfect but peaceful and without drama.

When XH started his A, he was practically glowing, tons of energy to go out all the time to keep his A going, new clothes, working out, probably more handsome than he ever was.

Within 2 years time XH has gained close to 50 pounds, the new clothes he now wears is because nothing else fits him, he looks disheveled, started to smoke again, drinking like a fish, bankruptcy, Reality is the shineness of the A has faded and unfortunately he is one of the 3-7% that M his A partner.

The excitement cannot substain, they go back to their own habits and normal lifestyle. All that glitters is not gold.

There is no reasonabile explanation why they continue this path, Is it true love...no, it is more of a stubborness, refusal to accept the mistakes they made - no,

My reason...waywards are just dumb. Until there is remorse and the A implodes they will keep that path.

Good luck on your move. We at MB are excited for you.


Posted By: SusieQ Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 04:57 PM
Yes, good luck on your move!! How exciting!! You sound like you are doing great.(((atena))))
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 03/07/11 10:01 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I am actually very sad. Been very depressed these past days. I guess the sale of the house, the move and the fact that WH is still with OW are the final tombstone on my M which, at this point, has not hope to go anywhere....
I guess it is a natural feeling...
blessing

I think it is natural to feel this way, esp. when moving....but this is a new start, its good things that are gonna start happening for you...Good Luck sweetie...
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 09:25 AM
Hi all,
just an update to say that I moved and have been in the new place for a week now.
Things have had their ups and down recently. I had some health issues that needed to be taken care of and seem to be ok for now.

I spoke to my son yesterday and he said his dad will go to the States soon to visit grandpa who has been very ill. WH will not stop to see my son even if it has been a while since they last saw eachother.

a trip to the States is not really around the corner for WH and yet he could care less about taking time to go and see son.
He is still with OW, not living with her so far, but seeing her daily.
At this point WH has not tried to contact me in any form or manner and the sale of the house has been totally taken care of by the real estate agent.
I still fail to understand why WH will throw it all away for someone so insignificant and a house-wrecker whose kids are a nightmare.
I also fail to understand why their A is lasting this long when most relationships around me seem to crumble and so many people have so many problems with their spouses or partners....WH and OW do not seem to be affected by anything.
As time goes by and with the move, I have realized that my attachement to WH goes up and down.
At this time I am finding myself missing him a lot as I realize it is really over between us and that I will never be with him again.
Thank you for listening
blessing
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 09:48 AM
Blessings to you too, atena.

It will get better for you, I promise.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 02:13 PM
i trust it will get better..
thank you for your support

blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 02:27 PM
Atena, I was thinking about you yesterday! I am so glad you sold the house and have moved away. Do you like your new home?
Posted By: jessitaylor Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 02:37 PM
Atena,
You are on the other side now, I hope you are making the best of your life....keeping and open heart and mind to new experiences.............
jessi
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 03:00 PM
I am renting a new place and it is beautiful, I was very lucky to find it!
I do not feel I am on the other side yet. I still love my WH, it is crazy to think that I am still capable of having feeling for this man who has shown nothing but cruelty and contempt towards me, but I know he is happier without me and at the end, I have to be grateful that a person like him is out of my life.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 03:03 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I am renting a new place and it is beautiful, I was very lucky to find it!
I do not feel I am on the other side yet. I still love my WH, it is crazy to think that I am still capable of having feeling for this man who has shown nothing but cruelty and contempt towards me, but I know he is happier without me and at the end, I have to be grateful that a person like him is out of my life.
blessing

Are you missing all the lying, cheating and general cruelty? Or are you romanticizing again? Keep in mind, that you have even told me that you wouldn't want him back like this. Can you imagine what the life of the OW is like? Having to watch her back every second because she knows he is a liar and a cheater?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 03:08 PM
Hi Melody, good to hear your comments! i hope you are doing well, I thank you for reminding me.
The OW is a lot like my WH, but I do agree that she must be super jealous knowing what he has done to me. Even if he tells her she is the one...she must a fool to believe him...
I can't forget his behaviour and I can't forget he has the same behavior with our son...that is pretty low when you lie and cheat on your children by not dedicating time to them and by avoiding being honest with them,...at the end it is WH's loss.
One day he will get his face out of his [censored]!!!
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 03:10 PM
You have a chance to have a GREAT LIFE, Atena, if you will just take it. Remember what Dr Harley told you? Your future could be wonderful.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 03:15 PM
I do believe it!
I am taking swimming lessons, I have joined a sports club and I plan to travel. I have new friends and i look for fun stuff to do all the time... I am learning new things at work.
I do have lots of potential and I know my feelings for him are just a story I tell myself about a man who has not been nice to me in years and who does no longer exist!!!
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 03:47 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I do have lots of potential and I know my feelings for him are just a story I tell myself about a man who has not been nice to me in years and who does no longer exist!!!

When I first met you, you were one miserable, depressed, despairing woman. Your H did not make you happy, he made you miserable. He made you suffer for years. And didn't care. Are you missing the Grade A misery?

I can't help but wonder what your life would be like with a man who treated you like a queen and who put you before anyone else. That is all you have wanted and needed. You wanted happiness and your H made your life hell for years. You want that back?

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I am taking swimming lessons, I have joined a sports club and I plan to travel. I have new friends and i look for fun stuff to do all the time... I am learning new things at work.

hurray
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 08:54 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I do believe it!
I am taking swimming lessons, I have joined a sports club and I plan to travel. I have new friends and i look for fun stuff to do all the time... I am learning new things at work.
I do have lots of potential and I know my feelings for him are just a story I tell myself about a man who has not been nice to me in years and who does no longer exist!!!
blessing

Hi Atena hug So good to see your posts.
The future is now. It is different then we envisioned but we have to embrace what life is offering to us. I too have been doing many activities. I do not date now and have no desire at this time. Not sure if that will come in time.

As long as the waywards are with their POSOW they will continue on their path. There will be no remorse, no flicker of their old self. I have detached from XH even though the phrase "love the unloveable" comes into my prayers for him.

You were missed. Thanks for checking in.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/11/11 09:14 PM
Atena! I was wondering about you the other day too. You sound GREAT! Thank you for checking in smile
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/12/11 11:48 AM
Yes, he was not there to make me happy, he was there to tell himself all the time what a miserable life he had with me and our son. He just hated being M (to me) and could not wait to get out of the M.
It must have cost him a lot of lying and deceit to pretend he loved me etc...
Now the truth is out. He is happy with a lowlife-OW. That's who he wants to be with and not 100% given he does not live with her and still doesn't even thou I moved out of the building and he could easily move in with her now....
He is really a free loader, 100% so.

Quote
I can't help but wonder what your life would be like with a man who treated you like a queen and who put you before anyone else. That is all you have wanted and needed. You wanted happiness and your H made your life hell for years. You want that back?

So far no man has shown any interest for me. The ones that do are in their 60s so 16 years older than I am. I wonder if there is a point in a woman's life when is no longer possible to find a person who is faithful, attractive and financially ok....

Thank you for missing me!!
Blessing
Posted By: AndyM Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/12/11 12:45 PM
atena - I'm a newbie here, but I just wanted to comment on your last statement. You are never too old to find love and it is possible to find someone that's faithful, attractive, financially responsible, etc. Look at the posters here - there are good people out there, but you might have to kiss a few frogs before finding a prince. I'm guessing we're around the same age and I don't plan on giving up hope of finding true love again, if I wind up with a D.

In the meantime, get out there, find a hobby, be active, live life!
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/12/11 01:32 PM
((((Atena)))...I feel the same way about being to old to find a good partner (I am the same age also)....but when I hear you say it I think, OMG she is so young to be thinking that....

Also, no one has shown any interest in me.....but I dont go anywhere, so maybe when we start enjoying life and doing things we enjoy...I mean I dont think I will meet anyone crossing paths with me in my kitchen, although that would be great....

You remind me so much of me....maybe we were just too good for these jerks, ya know? They probably, deep down, really know that too and that is why they stay with their lowlife OW....because there are no expectations, they can be lowlifes together....My WH lives with his MOTHER now...I mean he would rather live with his mother than me and DS...BUT he would rather live with his mother than with OW also....

I think these men just want to be teenagers again...they dont like responsibilites....but who of us really does, thats just being and adult....and obviously that is too much for them to handle....Hang in there, atena...I am right there with ya.
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/12/11 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I can't help but wonder what your life would be like with a man who treated you like a queen and who put you before anyone else. That is all you have wanted and needed. You wanted happiness and your H made your life hell for years. You want that back?

So far no man has shown any interest for me. The ones that do are in their 60s so 16 years older than I am. I wonder if there is a point in a woman's life when is no longer possible to find a person who is faithful, attractive and financially ok....

Thank you for missing me!!
Blessing
[/quote]

Always remember you are a Goddess even though your self esteem took a serious hit with this.

The best advice I can give you is to focus on yourself. See what makes you happy. Men have shown me interest and I am not accepting the "cookies" right now. Not interested in hearing their stories or ready to share mine. Most men my age want a 25 year old which is fine for them..till they get dumped.

Just be you. blessings.
Posted By: stillhere8126 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/12/11 05:22 PM
Hope, it is funny that you said that, about them wanting 25 year olds....

My BIL always dated women in their twenties and he is my age...well, the always want to go to bars or go dancing, ya know basically always on the go....BIL was getting exhausted and sometimes just wanted to stay home and hang out or go to a movie...

He was complaining that dating was running him ragged and that he couldnt find a lasting relationship. I said "dating twenty year olds is running you ragged. Date someone your age."

Well in the last year he met someone five years OLDER than him...OMGoodness, God forbid!!!!!!.....He is now happily married to her after only a year and she is a sweetheart...So maybe there is hope for us...





PS...Her exH left her 10 years ago (while she was pregnant) for another woman that he was having an affair with...
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/12/11 06:20 PM

((( atena )))

Quote
At this time I am finding myself missing him a lot as I realize it is really over between us and that I will never be with him again.

You miss the good man he used to be, not this heartless snake he's morphed into. Yuk!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 04/14/11 11:59 AM
thank you for all your posts!
Actually, WH was never 100% genuinely into the M. He kept going for our son. In retrospect, that is what i am seeing. I do not see anything else.

All the romantic messages he sent his 2 OW on the cell phone he never sent me or told me. He never told me I was his joy and that he loved me loved me loved me ...like he did to the others.

So, he never was really into me. It must feel the same to him, that he really never was truly in love with me.
And now that he is experiencing this romance with OW he just is so addicted to something he never had with me.

I guess some people can see M only in terms of raising kids and being together for them till they are young. WH is probably one of those people who would have prefered to stay single....
Now he has his freedom.
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/09/11 01:44 PM
Hi all,
just an update to tell you that I am doing much better.
The move really really helped.
I plan to spend the summer in the states looking for jobs. I have a couple of minor surgeries to take care of between now and end of June. Hopefully all will go well.
Today I ran into WH in the hallway at work. It had been a long long time so I thought to myself "seeing him is going to throw me into a spin now"
But it did not.
I felt nothing.
I looked smashing, I am tanned, fit, and dressed to kill (going to a b.day party right after work) so it couldn't have been a better day to run into him in terms of looks.
He looked at me and his look was of pure hatred.
All day long people of been telling me how great I look.
He just hates me. And you know what I thought to myself: poor devil, he must be having a heck of a life if all he can manage is hate.
blessing
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/09/11 01:48 PM
I am so glad you have finally found some peace for yourself. Your thread was one of the most painful to read.

Congrats on the move! Good luck looking for work.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/09/11 02:15 PM
You soooooooooo need to get out of there!! I am glad to hear you are going to be looking for jobs in the states. You know where to find me if you come to my area!! smile
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/09/11 02:19 PM
If I move to the states it will be easy to visit you!!
I just wonder why the hatred towards me...I have done nothing to him, nothing at all.
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/09/11 03:43 PM
Atena! I was wondering about you last week. Good you are checking in.

I hope your surgeries go well. Are you done with your school program now?

What areas of the states will you be looking in? Close to your son?

I am sure you were smoking when you saw him. Of course he hates you because you are a reminder of the man he is now and he self reflects.

Let him hate you, the opposite of love is not hate it is indifference. You impact him more than he will ever know.

Blessings. keep in touch.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/09/11 06:43 PM
(((Atena)))

I am so happy that you have found some much needed peace, finally. Just think how much better you will feel once you are away from him.

I wish you all of the best. laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/09/11 07:08 PM
I am done with my school program, done since last summer. I got a promotion a work.
I plan to move to CA, my son is in the east but once i am there can visit and so can he. It will be so much easier than now!
I look forward to it, it will be nice to land a job.

WH's eyes had the same fogged-mean look he used to display when we were still living together and he was see OW secretly.
After more than a year and half he is still deep in the fog and probably deep into the A.
I agree, I do remind him of the man he is and of the man he could have been. But I am sure, in his head, he blames me for everything....
But I did notice a shift in him from indifference to hatred since the last time we ran into eachother which was a few months back.
I am travelling for work in a couple of days. Going to a exotic city for a conference. It will be fun.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/16/11 01:48 PM
Hi all,
I talked to my son yesterday and he said he barely talks to his dad. He said that when he asks his dad for money his dad always sends the money so he thinks he feels guilty towards son and gives him what he wants.
My son also said that his dad, the rare times they talk (I think they talked recently because son asked him for money) and my son askes WH what he is doing and how is life, my WH talks about him spending time with OW at her home (now that I moved to different house) and getting closer to her, maybe thinking about moving in with her. The only obstacle being OW's ex boyfriend (she was never married to the father of her 2 kids) who does not want my WH to be in contact with his kids (wise man). So WH talks badly about her ex boyfriend to my son (!!!!)

So yesterday when I talked to my son he vented with me saying he can't believe WH would actually consider moving in with OW and her brats and dealing with all the mess of her not getting along with ex boyfriend and the issues they have around the bratty kids...and talking about it with my son!
Son said he really thinks his dad had lost it, but it has been almost 2 years and the A seems not only to thrive but to get deeper into commitment.

I told son not to despair because the A is running its course. It is only natural that the 2 AP would want to move in together given they have been dating and not facing real day to day issues.They are still in luv and think they are soul mates.
I told son that most likely if they moved in together they will not last long after that.

My son cannot stand the OW (she was the neighbor as you recall) as he remembers having to listen to her and her kids yelling and plus all the deceit and the filthy stuff she was able to do to our family.
He hopes they break up so he does not have to deal with her.
I told son he does not have to deal with her ever. He can simply tell his dad he does not want to spend time wiht him in the presence of OW.

I am heart broken for my son and also this conversation brought back lots of junk about the A and the M but I needed to listen to what my son has to say. He rarely talks about the A and it must have been heavy on his heart to open up to me and vent. He is usually a very quiet and reserved person.

I am sad.
Blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/16/11 03:54 PM
Atena, I know you are hurting because your son is hurting. These waywards think everything is just fine because they think they are "fine"...all fog babble.

Don't let that be a set back because of your WH actions. Let them live together with her kids. That will be the kiss of death in that A.

I feel for your son losing his father. My DD17 has not seen hers in more than 2 years and he just missed prom night.

It was his loss not ours and she is in a good place.

That is all you can ask right now for your family.

Blessings.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/16/11 05:58 PM
Yes, that is what I told my son, it will be the kiss of death in the A if he goes and lives with her.
But I also told him that his dad has chosen a different lifestyle now and that most likely he will have an OW ready once he decides to leave this one. WH can't be alone for long. And certainly will not ask me to take him back and have a "come to Jesus" epiphany.
So,my son has to come to terms with the fact that the family he once had is destroyed...so that his dad can now spend his days with a w***e and then maybe later with yet another w****e.
Sad but true.
Thank you!!!
Blessing
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/16/11 06:05 PM
Quote
The only obstacle being OW's ex boyfriend (she was never married to the father of her 2 kids) who does not want my WH to be in contact with his kids (wise man). So WH talks badly about her ex boyfriend to my son (!!!!)

They are idiots ! Complete fools.

You son is lucky to have such a smart & loving Mother.
One who is honest with him all the while being supportive.
clap

This OW sounds like trash.
Last week's trash.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/16/11 06:23 PM
Quote
This OW sounds like trash.
Last week's trash.

rotflmao

Too funny!
We can all smell it but WH!!!
banghead

Thank you Pep, I needed a good laugh!

blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/19/11 12:55 PM
Is this possible??? Is this just due to the A addiction and OW??? I can't think it is because he has lost it!
My WH is not cooperating in the sale of the house. Today the real estate agent who has been doing all the work to get him organized and do stuff has lost it. She called me at work to say that it is important that WH complete his share of the move.
She had been trying to call him several times and he does not return her calls.
She even went to his house and rang the bell but no answer. She was sure he was there as OW's can was parked in front (she knows OW since she is trying to sell her house now with the same agency...) and was still parked in front several hours later when the agent tried again to ring his doorbell
I told the agent that I can't help her really.
My son tells me the same story, WH just does not do things. Son needed him to check on his insurance weeks ago and WH has not done it yet.
Is this the A???? Can it be that he forgets about everything even his financial interests? After all if the house sells he gets the money not me or our son!!!??
How much can he really enjoy being with OW for hours in this 2x2 efficiency place??? This is sick
I am just so upset about all this, i want to sell the f.ing house and move on....
The agent said she needs to speak to a lawyer if WH does not respond...I told her to go ahead!!!
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/19/11 02:17 PM
bump
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/19/11 02:32 PM
What do you think he is doing? Is he trying to back out of the sale?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/19/11 02:38 PM
No, the last time the real estate person was able to talk to him he told her he would do anything to speed up the process.
However, when I moved I moved 50% of the furniture and left the rest to him. It is still quite a bit and I think he is trying to act smart by pressuring the real estate person and myself to complete the move for him,...this is my guess.
Also he seems to be avoiding any type of commitment. I also just got called by the tax person who has been trying to get a hold of him to do his tax return for the country i live in....and got no reply from WH, not even: i am no longer going to need your services.
So I think he is just in a limbo and OW is his drug not to face reality.
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/19/11 06:25 PM
My XH did the same thing. Never followed up with a thing. Just kept going away to Vegas and drinking and partying and living the life.

I see even with the bankruptcy petition his own lawyer was so frustrated because she had to push him to follow through.

Do think it is a fog babble mentality. When they walk away form their life -- they walk away from any schedules, committments, or goals and just drift.

That is what I am seeing.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/20/11 12:31 PM
thank you hope,
I was venting with my mom yesterday and she said that WH is getting older and more and more attached to OW
He is completely alone and she is the only ENs provider and since it has been almost 2 years (in Sept it willbe) my mom believes he is settling with this OW.
Since OW is trash my mom thinks she is dragging him into apathy, so WH is not even taking care of his own interests because OW does not expect anything from him and does not encourage him to be the best he can be.
She accepts his mediocrity and trashiness as she is trash herself so....it is all very sad.
I would have not allowed WH to have the bahavior he is having now!
blessing
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/20/11 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by atena
thank you hope,
Since OW is trash my mom thinks she is dragging him into apathy, so WH is not even taking care of his own interests because OW does not expect anything from him and does not encourage him to be the best he can be.
She accepts his mediocrity and trashiness as she is trash herself so....it is all very sad.
I would have not allowed WH to have the bahavior he is having now!
blessing

These A are devasting not to just the BS but also to the WS.

It changes them and not for the good. They think different, change physically and lose their spiritual compass.

One of the most poignant analogies is comparing Pinocchio (WS) going to Pleasure Island (OW)

To the WS, Pleasure Island is a special place...but really it is a cursed amusement park. The Coachman (alias Satan) brings all the boys into the park so they could live out their dreams (bad behavior)

On the surface, Pleasure Island (OW) seems to be heavan on earth to act out all of their fantasties and vices freely available for the asking.

After being on Pleasure Island awhile Pinocchio (WS) thinks they can have this last forever even though the experience starts to slightly dim in a short time.

Then the transformation starts.

Pleasure Island is truly cursed and Pinocchio (WS) starts to change in the way he is acting...a jacka$$ of himself. Pinocchio realizes that is turning into a real donkey with a human mind. The other boys on the island that have slipped even farther than he has are full blown donkeys that can no longer express themselves and just braying loudly making no sense. These (Ws) donkeys lose all of their possessions, their self and even their clothes.

If they do not escape this fate then the Coachmen (Satan) will put them all in crates and they are sold into slavery in the salt mines (hell).

Their own actions are their own destruction. They look in the mirror and even they don't know what they have become.

And Pleaure Island (Ow) they are still waiting for their next group of WS.



Moral of the story..Next time you call your WH an A## -- he really is.

Blessings.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/23/11 02:33 PM
This is a very good analogy Hope. But my WH is not as smart as Pinocchio and does not know that he is a piece of wood turning into an a$$.
He thinks he is a free man in love with his girlfriend.
No worries.

He is like Pinocchios friends who turn into a total donkey. No way to look back. The transformation for him is almost complete.
blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/24/11 11:46 AM
Hi all,
we are closing on the house at the end of the month. WH is finally getting stuff together or so it seems.
As the house sale will pretty much end any need for us to be in touch in the future I thought it might be good for me to send an email message to WH and tell him the following.
I know it sounds crazy, but I am at a stage now, spiritually, where this could take a big burden from my heart.
Dear WH,
I forgive everything you have done and the way you decided to end our marriage. I can't hide that I miss my family as a unit, tremendously, but that I have to respect the choices of others. I, in no way or form hate you or wish you ill. I feel it is important for me to tell you this.
You choose a different path and decided to abandon your family and this decision must be of some advantage to you.
Things happen for a reason.
Wishing you the best of everything and want to be at peace with you.
Athena

I feel better already.
and I rally do not care what he will think of me. Door-mat??
blessing
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/24/11 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by atena
Dear WH,
I forgive accept everything you have done and the way you decided to end our marriage. I can't hide that I miss my family as a unit, tremendously, but that I have to respect accept the choices of others. I, in no way or form hate you or wish you ill. I feel it is important for me to tell you this.
You chose a different path and decided to abandon your family and this decision must be of some advantage to you.
Things happen for a reason.
Wishing you the best of everything and want to be at peace with you.
Athena

Atena,

I can't imagine why you would want to write that you "forgive" and "respect" the decision of your WH for his adultery and abandonment of his family. On the one hand, I do understand the spiritual need you might have to forgive him, meaning letting him off the hook. But to tell him he has forgiveness when he has neither asked for it nor earned it, well...I just can't imagine going there. JMHO. I also could never imagining telling anyone, much less my own WH, that I "respect" his choice. It's a sad and terrible choice he made that one day he will have to answer for.

But I think you're wise to be able to move on in your own mind.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 05/24/11 02:23 PM
51CD, yes he has not asked for forgiveness and he genuinly does not think he is doing anything wrong. Jesus said "Forgive them as they know not what they are doing"
I think this sentence fits the WS perfectly. They have no clue and they act at the level of their awareness. They could not act anyway differently but the way they do. Otherwise they would.
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 04:01 PM
Hi all,
just an update to let you know that the house sold and that I am leaving for the States on Fri.
I will spend all summer there looking for a job.
My WH, just a few days ago let me know thru my SIL that he would like to at least be able to say Hi to me when he sees me at work or meets me in town and that he really hopes I am doing well.
I told my SIL to please not give me any messages about him and she said that she was hoping for us to just be able to be civil with eachother and that maybe that also meant that he is not doing well with OW.
However, it has been almost 2 years since our separation and today, as I was picking up my mail from the new owners of the house we just sold the wife told me that she is really shocked to see my WH visiting the OW regularly and she said she did not realize that our split was due to that situation and that she apologizes for not understanding why I was so adamant about wanting NC with WH.
SO I gathered that he is still actively seeing OW (still not living with her).
So folks, at this point, after almost 2 years can i say with confidence that this M is over and that the A is among the 5% that last more than 2 years?
Can I attribute the long life of the A to the fact that they do not live together or to the very strong feeling of love between the APs?
Can the passion and "love" still be there after this long and after the A has been brought to the light of day for 2 years now?
The excitement of sneaking and hiding is no longer there....but how can the passion be sustained for so long???
I guess I just need to know all this to be at peace.
Still puzzled.
Blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 05:38 PM
Atena, if I were to make an educated guess, I would say the reason the affair has gone on so long is because the reasons that most affairs end: deceit, thoughtlessness, selfishness, are not impediments to your husband. After all, that is part and parcel of his character. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if you found out he has OTHER OW too. What would there be to stop him? Nothing..

Quote
I guess I just need to know all this to be at peace.

And you will never have peace about this, that is a pipe dream. The best thing you can do is start living your life to the fullest, divorce him and try NOT to think about. The more you think and talk about it, the more triggered you will be. THE LESS PEACE YOU WILL HAVE.

Are you still planning on filing for divorce while you are here this summer? Any chance you are coming my way??
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I told my SIL to please not give me any messages about him and she said that she was hoping for us to just be able to be civil with eachother and that maybe that also meant that he is not doing well with OW.

That is like trying to be "civil" with your rapist. Being in touch with him only makes him feel better about the harm he caused to you; it assuages his guilt. But it keeps you triggered and in pain. I hope you told her to tell him to go straight to hell. If you want me to, I will be GLAD to pass that message along.

btw, I saw your son's picture on your fb page. What a handsome devil!!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 05:54 PM
Hi Melody, thank you for you offer to send him a message, but no, I do not want to have anything to do with him anymore.
Actually, should he ever send you anything do not even pass it to me. I doubt he will, but should he,.., just leave it unanswered.
I am done with him. We have no need to communicate any longer. The house is sold.
If my son has anything to tell me he will call me directly (yes he is handsome, thank you he also looks like me a little!!!!)
So I will get him out of my life and as far as my SIL goes she got the message loud and clear from me. It is not a matter of "time heals all wounds". I told her that even if I get re-married I will still not talk to WH. It is for life.
As far as D goes, now I have time to investigate and will once there.
I will not make it to your area but if I move back I will make it a priority to visit you soon!!!
Hugs and blessing
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 06:05 PM
Atena!
Hope you find an awesome job and network of true friends with the move!
Best wishes for deep love and joy for you!
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 06:19 PM
Atena, so you are making the rounds in the USA. What area are you concentrating on?

Hopefully you will find a great position in your area of concentration.

It will do wonders for you leaving for the summer. Out of site, out of mind...truly.

We will never have an answer for their craziness because who understands true insanity.

Blessings. keep us posted.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by atena
I will not make it to your area but if I move back I will make it a priority to visit you soon!!!
Hugs and blessing

I would so love to have you!! I have a nice big guestroom for you.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 06:34 PM
Quote
Atena, if I were to make an educated guess, I would say the reason the affair has gone on so long is because the reasons that most affairs end: deceit, thoughtlessness, selfishness, are not impediments to your husband. After all, that is part and parcel of his character. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if you found out he has OTHER OW too. What would there be to stop him? Nothing..
That's so true and you are always dot on Melody. Also, he would not really be bothered if OW did that to him (cheat, etc..) it would not really effect him that much.
Yes, he could easily have other OW, who is there to check on him? He lives on his own and has tons of female friends (he was in a sports team, probably still is, with tons of female athletes...)


Quote
The more you think and talk about it, the more triggered you will be. THE LESS PEACE YOU WILL HAVE.

Dot on here too!! I spend the last 2 days talking about the whole A history to 2 good friends (one from TX) I had not seen in 2 years. One stayed at my house yesterday and the other I saw today at lunch.
I guess all that talk triggered me quite a bit.
I guess at this point it is ok to tell people that I do not feel it is important to talk about it.
But sometimes friends want to know in order to understand better what you went thru.
Quote
I would so love to have you!! I have a nice big guestroom for you.
In true Texas style! I would love it!!!
Blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 06:34 PM
I will even make you some nice eye-talian food!! laugh

Chef BoyarMel! grin
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 06:38 PM
Ok, maybe we should make a deal now that if I come to visit I am in charge of the eye-talian food.
But I crave Tex-Mex so....you are out of luck with Chef BoyarMel!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 06:47 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Ok, maybe we should make a deal now that if I come to visit I am in charge of the eye-talian food.
But I crave Tex-Mex so....you are out of luck with Chef BoyarMel!

rotflmao you got a deal! rotflmao
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 07:07 PM
Quote
Atena, so you are making the rounds in the USA. What area are you concentrating on?

Hopefully you will find a great position in your area of concentration.

It will do wonders for you leaving for the summer. Out of site, out of mind...truly.

We will never have an answer for their craziness because who understands true insanity.

Blessings. keep us posted.

My area is education and I looking into California.

You are right, there is no rhyme or reason to their actions. I guess they have to hurt themselves (and us) but ultimately we will recover but they will still have to live with themselves. Hopefully when the sh$t hits the fan they will feel the hurt and grow into better people. I always think life make you take dumb choices so you can learn from them
I leaned a lot thru this experience. I know, I would have preferred another way, but I know I have a lot more depth as a human being thanks to the pain and growth I had to go thru.
I wish all WS growth and dept. May they learn from the inevitable consequences of their action (pain) and grow into better humans.

Melody deal weightlifter
You cook the Teeex-Meeiks and I do the eye-Talian.

Posted By: Scotland Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 07:13 PM
Atena, good to hear from you. You will be GREAT. Don't forget, Mel makes BBQ. And since it's in Texas, it should be authentic. laugh
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 07:15 PM
I am in the state you stated.
lol
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 07:15 PM
Oh, ya, BBQ!!! I am meat!
Meaning I love it. Not that I want to be BBQed by Mel (only on the forum, that's ok). hurray
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 06/27/11 11:08 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Oh, ya, BBQ!!! I am meat!
Meaning I love it. Not that I want to be BBQed by Mel (only on the forum, that's ok). hurray

We do not BBQ eye-talians in Texas, silly! sigh I do make some MEAN pork ribs, though!! grin
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/25/11 11:03 PM
update...I am in Ca looking for a job. I m visiting several venues.
My SIL lives in Ca and I am looking into venues in her area as well. She is not there now but she offered me to stay at her house and use her car. This will save me car rental money. My brother in law is working long hours so I will have minumum contact with him and her being away I will not even see.
Should I accept the offer?????
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/25/11 11:22 PM
That sounds great! Can you drive a car? You know we drive on the RIGHT over here!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/25/11 11:26 PM
of course I know!!! I have a TX license they might not like that here in CA. rotflmao

I just do not want to be too close to WH family, but his sister seems to be on my side consistently...I think she is trying to help. ANd her H hates my WH!
Blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/25/11 11:52 PM
Originally Posted by atena
of course I know!!! I have a TX license they might not like that here in CA. rotflmao

SAY WHAT???? faint How did a silly eye-talian get a TEXAS drivers license!!?? MY LORD!! cry
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/25/11 11:54 PM
I lived in Dallas, they trusted I could drive since I was eye-talian, they said if you can drive there you can drive even here in TX so they gave the license to me without even blinking flirt
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/26/11 12:07 AM
faint Oh my!!!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/26/11 12:08 AM
p.s. we are having eye-talian food tonight in your honor, Atena! Digorno frozen pizza!! laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/26/11 12:34 AM
If someone takes me out for eye-talian food in here in Ca I will suggest we stay home and have a DiGiorno pizza... sick
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/26/11 01:12 AM
Originally Posted by atena
If someone takes me out for eye-talian food in here in Ca I will suggest we stay home and have a DiGiorno pizza... sick

It was delish!! kiss
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/26/11 02:54 AM
atena, take the offer. It is WH problem not yours if your SIL is close to you.
How is the job hunt. Any good prospects?

I am an eye-talian driving in Texas also. I was just back east and packed my suitcase with bracoli-rabe and escarole because they don't have it here! Cooked it up already. yum
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/26/11 08:23 PM
Ok, I am finally on a very dark plan B since I have not seen WH in 2 months now. I should be feeling better but I still miss him and think about him every single day. I know he is not worth it and he is no M material. He is an unrepentant WS in an active A.
Really, when does the pain end. I just talked to my mom and she said: "You could move to the Moon and you will still be thinking of him, you have to get him out of your heart because your heart comes with you wherever you go. If you do not do that it does not matter how far you go, you can't run from yourself."
crybaby
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/26/11 08:33 PM
The longer you are away from him the less you will think of him. It has only been a few weeks.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/26/11 08:34 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
I am an eye-talian driving in Texas also. I was just back east and packed my suitcase with bracoli-rabe and escarole because they don't have it here! Cooked it up already. yum

Another eye-talian and her foreign foods! crazy
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/26/11 09:02 PM
Thank you Mel, it will take some time, I am so addicted to my "story" and WH! I think I find a weird comfort about being such a victim. In a way my all identity is build around the fact that my M ended because of an A!!
I need to get a life soon! He has moved on nicely and I am still stuck in (bad)memories lane.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 07/26/11 09:05 PM
I so hope you can get a job over here!
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/01/11 09:02 PM
hi all, yes I really hope so!!
I am in 2 months plus in serious NC and dark plan B. I dream of WH every night and I can't stop thinking about him.
I still love him and I really hope that moving away will help me.
It has been 2 years now in an imperfect plan b (we work together) and he has not given me any sign of any repentance. Only total indifference. I believe he really never loved me at this point. It is so sad. 20 years of M with a man who could care less about me. And yet there were times in our M when I was sure he was in love with me.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/01/11 09:32 PM
Atena, I know how much you must MISS being ignored, disrespected and abused for so many years. Remember the times he tormented you with his "friendships" with OW? And then gaslighted you and made you feel like you were some kind of freak when you expressed your concern? Told you that you were crazy when you expressed jealousy? What fun times!! crazy

Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/01/11 09:53 PM
Hi Atena,

Any luck with the job market? Hope you have some good prospects...when do you go back overseas? Did you get to see your son?

You have to put your WH in perspective. I remember the man that I loved who is so far from the alien he is today. Until the OW is gone every particle of their being is gone.

Remember the old movie "The Body Snatchers" where people were replaced by soul-less pods? That is a WS.

I know my XH hates me because I screwed up his life (pretty sad but funny), because I fought in the D, I fought for my M, I fought for my family, I fought in the bankruptcy, and most of all because i did not roll over and die and rocked his fantasy world.

Stay dark and time will heal us one day.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/01/11 10:02 PM
Quote
Atena, I know how much you must MISS being ignored, disrespected and abused for so many years. Remember the times he tormented you with his "friendships" with OW? And then gaslighted you and made you feel like you were some kind of freak when you expressed your concern? Told you that you were crazy when you expressed jealousy?
I think the thing that bothers me the most is his attachement to OW. Was he an a$$ h@le only with me or is it the way he eventually becomes with every woman?
I am sure OW has no say about him having female friends and I know for a fact that he does have female friends now that he is no longer in the M. OW must be ok with it since she has no power over him (she is not his wife). So he must like that and think what a great person she must be compared to me who was so jealous. OW truly understands him and wants him just the way he is. This is what he is thinking..I am pretty sure. She looks so good to him compared to me and this is really disgusting...
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/01/11 10:36 PM
Originally Posted by atena
[
I think the thing that bothers me the most is his attachement to OW. Was he an a$$ h@le only with me or is it the way he eventually becomes with every woman?

Do you seriously think he agreed to give up all his opposite sex friendships for his affair? I bet he even dates other people and drives her insane. That man made you miserable for years and he is much more likely to make her miserable since she is a short term relationship. As soon as she gets upset with him, he will move on.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/01/11 10:45 PM
It would be quite incredible if he became a saint while with her. I guess from the looks of it he seems to be into her quite a bit. But again, he is not stable emotionally and is always on the look for something better if it comes along.
I think he is cake eating with her. Keeping her on the hook so that she can drive him around, offer him the use of her home with internet and free meals and of course sex and companionship. Then he goes home to his place and does what he pleases. Not bad at all.
That's the life he wanted all along and he must have been very unhappy being a father and a husband when his urge was to actually be free to do what the heck he pleased.
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/01/11 11:04 PM
As with most women she will be driven crazy by her renters outlook. And it will be even worse with her than it was with you because he won't marry her. There will be no pretense of permanence. And with her, he doesn't have to even hide his other women.

You and I both know he is not going to change. And she already knows what a lying sneak he is. She knows she can't trust him out of her sight.

Do you miss that part? I seem to remember for the past several years that you weren't too thrilled about the lying, sneaky part. In fact, he has made you MISERABLE ever since I have known you.

When you choose a new partner what traits will you look for?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/01/11 11:29 PM
I truly think he is more a freeloader than a renter...renter is a compliment for him...

The first thing I am looking for is fidelity. and believe me I have been observing men who are in relationships with my relatives here in the states and they are all waywards. From the way they talk you can tell you can't trust these guys.
So # 1 thing for me would be no female friends, for sure.
I am also going to see that the guy uses his free time for productive things. Even if he does not have 3 jobs but only one...how does he use his free time? Does he engage in meaningful hobbies and interests? Or is he just bumming around not really into much at all and bored....so that he gets into trouble by engaging with OWs and socializes with the "losers".....?
Does he really like me?Meaning does he look forward to being with me, spending time with me? Does he make plans to do things with me instead of waiting for me to make plans and then reluctantly tag along>>>?
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/01/11 11:36 PM
Originally Posted by atena
Does he really like me?Meaning does he look forward to being with me, spending time with me? Does he make plans to do things with me instead of waiting for me to make plans and then reluctantly tag along>>>?
blessing

Whoever it is had better treat you like the QUEEN OF SHEBA!! But we can help you with all this. The solution to all those problems you had in your last marriage is the POJA. Where you find solutions that make you both happy. And you could learn to spend 15+ hours per week together meeting the top 4 intimate en's. No opposite sex friendships, etc.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/01/11 11:41 PM
My WH would have never agreed to POJA. He told me many times over he did not want me to tell him what to do and that he had to be free to have friends also of the opposite sex. And that I was obsessed with jealousy and fear that the worst possible things could happen in our M and so he said at some point:"see, your worst fears came thru didn't they?"
I will think long and hard before getting into another relationship and when I decide to do so it better be worth it otherwise I am perfectly happy alone....and I know this forum (and Mel) will help me skim thru the options that will come along my path...(if any).
blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 12:23 AM
You need to let ME pick ya out a nice TEXAS MAN! grin Who can treat you like a queen and make you BBQ brisket! smile
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 12:29 AM
Yes! I need that especially the BBQ brisquet, those italian relatives here do not know how to BBQ!!!

I just received this email from a friend who knows WH very well (I am about to go visit brother in law to use their car and I am a bit concerned about them talking about WH...):

Atena , It is fine to ask them not to talk about WH . No point in it . I am sure they will understand . Atena , WH is NOT being nice to anyone except himself !!!! The latest girlfriend has to run in circles to please him she has cast off her children , her life , she probably has to pay for things for both of them . The list goes on and on . He is NOT being nice to her I can guarantee that is it is all WH's way or the highway . Do NOT imagine it any differently !!!!!!! WH , is WH . it was NOTHING to do with you . You could have been a Martian or a famous model the outcome and daily experience would have been exactly the same . You just happened to be there . It was all WH . Honestly !!!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 12:43 AM
Originally Posted by atena
The latest girlfriend has to run in circles to please him she has cast off her children , her life , she probably has to pay for things for both of them . The list goes on and on . He is NOT being nice to her I can guarantee that is it is all WH's way or the highway .

[Linked Image from i39.photobucket.com]

And since she is doing all that sacrificing, she will EXPECT alot in return. Extreme giving leads to extreme taking. And when nothing comes in return, she will start making demands and the fights will start. Soon enough, your H will be onto the next OW, if he isn't already.

How about a nice, tall Texas boy with boots and cowboy hat?? Maybe a white pick up truck with a shotgun in the back winder? laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 12:46 AM
Sounds all very nice about the Texas looking man.,,but why the shotgun...to protect me??
flirt
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 12:52 AM
Originally Posted by atena
Sounds all very nice about the Texas looking man.,,but why the shotgun...to protect me??
flirt

of course!! grin
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 04:51 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You need to let ME pick ya out a nice TEXAS MAN! grin Who can treat you like a queen and make you BBQ brisket! smile

And at what address does he reside? All the ones I know are already married (and probably looking), chewing tobacco, have lost most of their hair along with their teeth, unless they are all hunting in the woods? uhuh
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 12:03 PM
Are you in Texas, hope?

Another one???? faint
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 01:15 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
You need to let ME pick ya out a nice TEXAS MAN! grin Who can treat you like a queen and make you BBQ brisket! smile

And at what address does he reside? All the ones I know are already married (and probably looking), chewing tobacco, have lost most of their hair along with their teeth, unless they are all hunting in the woods? uhuh


Surely we can find a good old boy who will treat Atena like a queen. He can teach her to go squirrel hunting! laugh
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 04:43 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Are you in Texas, hope?

Another one???? faint

Yes I have lived in this state for 5 years.
My XH lost his mind here. Must be something in the air or his pants. rotflmao
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
He can teach her to go squirrel hunting! laugh
And they say romance is dead... loveheart
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 04:55 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
He can teach her to go squirrel hunting! laugh
And they say romance is dead... loveheart

I would take you squirrel hunting too if you come for a visit!! laugh
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 05:00 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
He can teach her to go squirrel hunting! laugh
And they say romance is dead... loveheart

I can think of a better target than those little squirrels...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
He can teach her to go squirrel hunting! laugh
And they say romance is dead... loveheart

I can think of a better target than those little squirrels...

rotflmao You are a badass, hope! Just for that, you are cordially invited to go squirrel hunting with me, atena and Sugarcane! laugh
Posted By: SugarCane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 05:15 PM
Originally Posted by hope3343
I can think of a better target than those little squirrels...
Remember what Carrie (Sex and the City) says: squirrels are just rodents with cuter outfits. Have you really lived in Texas for 5 years without ever having hunted squirrel? faint

Let's go gettem, with ML and athena, hope!
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 09:42 PM
What I like as far as barbeque anything is a slow-cooker filled with 2 bottles of BBQ sauce with frozen chicken...and then boiled.

The leftover sauce, all liquefied, makes a great rice topping.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 09:48 PM
Originally Posted by karmasrose
What I like as far as barbeque anything is a slow-cooker

BBQ in a crock pot = YANKEE fixins! rotflmao
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 09:55 PM
actually that does sound very tasty, karmasrose. smile
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/02/11 09:58 PM
It really is--it cooked all day long, and the chicken was nice and juicy.

And plenty of 'sauce' (more liquid than goopy like most BBQ sauce) to put on top if you wanted more. smile
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/05/11 02:16 AM
Sorry I can't hunt those little squirrels but those plastic pigs in the pig pen....hand me that rifle.

Can't clear the creek till you remove the pigs from the river... rotflmao


Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/05/11 02:21 AM
Originally Posted by hope3343
Sorry I can't hunt those little squirrels but those plastic pigs in the pig pen....hand me that rifle.

Can't clear the creek till you remove the pigs from the river... rotflmao

Let's take them foreign gals shinin' for hawgs!! laugh
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/08/11 06:08 PM
rotflmao

Ok you gals, on Mon is my son's 21st birthday. We will be both in Italy then and I was wondering what kind of present you give a 21 year old. He is in college here in the States and I am inthe States now so I could buy the present here.
I have no clue what to give him as 21 here in the States is a big milestone...
thank you and blessing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/08/11 06:13 PM
Money!! A $500 American Express gift card. You can even order them online.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/08/11 06:17 PM
I already gave him $350 a month ago when we met back east for the 4th of July...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/08/11 06:21 PM
Does he have an Apple Ipad?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/08/11 06:22 PM
And what kind of phone does he have?
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/08/11 06:24 PM
He has no IPad, he has an Iphone. How much are IPad?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/08/11 06:48 PM
Originally Posted by atena
He has no IPad, he has an Iphone. How much are IPad?

oooooooooh, I bet he would love an ipad!! They are all the rage. A good, middle of the road one with wi-fi and g service [32GB] is around $700. He can get his mail on it and upload presentations on it. The link is here: http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_ipad/family/ipad/select?mco=MjE0OTI0MDI
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/08/11 07:01 PM
That would be great but I do not want to ask his dad to contribute to half, so I will have to cover it on my own and that is to expensive...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/08/11 07:17 PM
Maybe you could get him the wi-fi only version? That would only cost $499 and if he is on campus, they probably have wi-fi everywhere. He could take it to his classes..
Posted By: hope3343 Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/09/11 01:57 AM
My daughter is turning 18 and I feel the same that I cannot get her an expensive gift but a well thought one would do great.

Is he a reader? Barnes and Noble gift card is always appreciated. Is he into a hobby or sport team? Team shirt of his favorite player. Something he would want but not go out and buy.

Now was the job search? any luck? take care and blessings
Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/09/11 03:32 AM
Ask him, I say!

At this age.....you just don't know what they can really use.

I recently read an article about how iPads are not very useful for college kids. Laptops are more useful for them.

Anyway. I am a big believer in asking!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/09/11 02:57 PM
Originally Posted by reading
Ask him, I say!

At this age.....you just don't know what they can really use.

I recently read an article about how iPads are not very useful for college kids. Laptops are more useful for them.

But it is not a replacement for a laptop. Of course he has to have a laptop, but an ipad can be very useful and fun because he can take it with him, record lectures, take pictures, access the internet so he can use google and do presentations.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/16/11 08:35 PM
ok, I gave son $250 and took him out to dinner twice. He was happy. I could not afford anything else but I thank you for all the great ideas!!
I arrived in Italy 2 days ago and son came the same day.
We are quite jet-lagged and slept a lot. He has not seen his dad yet and has far as I know WH has not called son for birthday, he might have messaged him. I have a strong feeling WH planned vacation with OW right at the time when son would have arrived from the States. I have a strong urge to ask son information about WH and I have to make a strong and consciuous effort not to ask him anything. I am very tempted.
Son has not spoken about his dad at all he only mentioned he will be working on a computer project with him during his stay here and so that he needs to be around during specific times in order to meet with his dad. ( I am planning to visit family and son is coming with me)
I think i am a masochist for wanting to know WH's life with OW. I really do not know what that knowledge will bring me if not more suffering, grief and jealousy.
I have no prospect of work in the states yet, but there are a couple of schools that told me to stay in touch as they might have openings coming up in the future.
Blessings
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/26/11 06:13 PM
Hello, I just wanted to update you about the latest ....my WH sent my mom a card thru my son. We visited my mom for a week and my son gave her the card the day after we arrived.
The card just said that he thinks of her often and remembers her nice dinners. He also added to say hi to my 98 years old grandma and to my brother and family.
My mom is not well and WH has not contacted her ever after all the filth of the A and the horrible way he handled the end of our M.
My mom was sad about the stupidity of such a message which is certainly a joke given the way he decided to end not only our marriage, but also the relationship with her and my brother
WH has never apologized nor make any effort to communicate with my family. He acted in a horrible Way Towards them.
My mom told my son to tell WH that she has no respect for the person he is now. My brother, however did not take the matter lightly and sent a message to WH telling him to stay out of our lives and to shove his stupid and offensive card to my mom up his....you know what.....
I was informed about all this just a few hours ago by my brother. I am staying out of all this and I m glad my brother took care of it.
I m not sure if I should tell my son to stay out of his dads craziness ....
What is WH trying to do with stupid attempts like those....is he trying to win my moms approval?....
His card offered no apology,,,,he could have very well been a card one sends to an old friend.....has he no idea of what he has done? Does he think that, since 2 years have passed since our separation that my family shoul get over it and act as if nothing has happened????
Grrrrrr
Blessing
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/26/11 06:20 PM
Hang in there. You are doing so much better...

Nothing else to add, except to add smile
Posted By: barbiecat Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/26/11 06:30 PM
ooooooh, I wrote the 1,000 post!
Does that give Atena gold or platinum status?

Posted By: reading Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/26/11 06:44 PM
Originally Posted by barbiecat
ooooooh, I wrote the 1,000 post!
Does that give Atena gold or platinum status?


lol.....it simply gives her the

'We love you Atena. We are here for you'

status

and. the card is showing he hopes to be friends eventually with you Atena in the future to normalize the whole dealysmegeggy.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/26/11 07:03 PM
Wow, 1000 posts!!!! Thank you all for the support and love you gave me all these years!!!
Yes, WH wants to normalize things, I guess. After 2 years he wants people to accept his new lifestyle.... I m not sure ...maybe after 2 years things start taking a new direction,,,,the A has not ended yet but maybe WH is realizing OW cannot meet his EN for family and hopes to get it from me.....
Fat chance pal!!!!!
Bless
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/27/11 06:55 PM
Ok, I did tell my son today that would be a good idea not to have his dad manipulate him. My son said he thought the card WH wrote to my mom was not a good idea but he did not know what WH had written in it and could not have imagined how it was going to be."...
I will not put him against his dad but he can see it for himself that his dad prefers ow company when he could take advantage of the fact that son is now here for only a few days more and then gone again for many months."..he is old enough to see it, am sure...
Blesssing
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/27/11 07:03 PM
Bravo to your mother and brother! Yes, your H wants to go along like everything is hunky dory and is shocked when anyone points out the disgusting things he did. He was shocked when I emailed him that time about the filming project in your department. He just wants to be friends. I am glad your family did that and think it is a great lesson for your boy too. He needs to see how decent people react.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/27/11 07:06 PM
Quote
stay out of our lives and to shove his stupid and offensive card to my mom up his....you know what.....

yeeeeeeee-hawwwwwwwwwww
dance2
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/27/11 07:14 PM
Hi Melody, yes , it was finally time my family spoke up. He thinks we are a bunch of idiots, I m sure otherwise...how dare he send such an insulting card?
I am sure he knows full well what he has done, I cant imagine he believes his behavior was just right.
My son said that the few times he saw WH, ow was not there and son never asked about her nor WH brought her up. However, son thinks they are still together. Also son says WH is happy and son can tell WH does not feel bad about his actions. Son confessed to me today that he does not enjoy spending time with WH and that he does not insist in seeing him unless WH asks him to.....
Nice...and they used to love being together....
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/28/11 01:13 PM
I know I have been posting lots these days...so please bear with me!!!!

With my son being here wounds are open again. This is my son's first summer where his parents are no longer together.

He is going thru this for the first time. All the summers we had before we spent them as a family.

Yesterday my son had told me he might have to meet his dad, but at the end of the day it did not happen.

We later went out for ice cream and saw OW and her smaller son walking near the ice cream place.

Both my son and I know that OW's XH does not want WH to be in contact with his kid, thus we knew WH could have not spent the day with OW since she had her son with her.
My son then started wondering why his dad did not contact him since he must have been free of OW.

Well at that point I had to put in my 2 cents and say that probably "your dad is busy with other people, including possibly other women." My son did not like this comment, but agreed that his father's choice to spend time with current (neighbor) OW was a horrible choice.

He added that he really cannot understand why he prefers to dedicate time to her instead of us. she is not even attractive and that she must be a horrible person.

He also commented that he is puzzled this A is lasting so long....
Again...I put in my 2 cents and told him that MAYBE the reason it is lasting so long is because WH is living on his own, having his independent life, wants nothing to do with OW's kids (OW's XH not wanting him to is just an excuse...as nothing stops a WS from moving in with OW...it is done all the time!!)

All of the above probably allow WH to have other "adventures" with other people without commitment.
Son does not seem to like to hear this, and I know I should not talk about WH with him, but in a way I am trying to make him see what kind of person his dad his.

Maybe that will help him understand why his dad is acting like a teen...rather than like a 50 year old....


In a way I am trying to not give so much importance on current OW, I am trying to show my son that it is not so much about her but about my WH's desire to be free to do as he pleases including having adventures with many women.

OW is just the money in the bank..the person he leans on for practical matters (car rides, sex, company) when WH finds nothing better around....
MrRollieEyes Am I wrong to say those things>>>????
Blessing
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/28/11 03:10 PM
Bump...
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/28/11 03:38 PM
Originally Posted by atena
He also commented that he is puzzled this A is lasting so long....
Again...I put in my 2 cents and told him that MAYBE the reason it is lasting so long is because WH is living on his own, having his independent life, wants nothing to do with OW's kids (OW's XH not wanting him to is just an excuse...as nothing stops a WS from moving in with OW...it is done all the time!!)

You and I have discussed this before and I really think you are right. I bet he is cheating on the OW. We knew he wouldn't be "faithful" to her anymore than he was to you. That is not his nature. Like you said, he wants to live the independent lifestyle and play around.

I think when you speak to your son, you might want to stick to how your H's actions affect you instead of making judgements. That seems to really upset him and you don't want to push your son away.
Posted By: atena Re: Plan B is soo hard! - 08/28/11 03:57 PM
Hi Melody, yes you are right, I practically told my son that his dad is a male version of a wh@r*.
I also told my son that if I met OW alone on the street one day I would beat her up. My son was puzzled to hear that from me as it is out of character, but seeing her with her brat just infuriated me.
It also infuriated me to see how disturbing her presence is to my son.
I am proud of myself for never letting my son stay in the house I sold. I bent over backwards when he came to visit me to find a different place for us to stay and keep him away from her and the filth she threw in our lives.
I just hate her and couldn't help making that comment....
thank you
blessing
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