Marriage Builders
Some months ago I found out my H had an affair with one of my "friends" for more than 5 years. I am devastated. With both. She and I were very close in the beggining, then we drifted apart, mainly because I didn't feel comfortable with her and I believe because she felt the same way with me. I never discussed my suspicions with her but we kept contact, by e-mail mostly, once in a while (2-3 times per year).

My H ended the affair because he was feeling guilty. Not because he stoped loving her. He is very depressed, although he pretends to be happy. I know him, he's feeling sad he's not with her anymore. I HATE THAT! He doesn't have any bad feelings toward her, he just "realized" he could never make HER happy because he didn't want to break our marriage, so he ended it.

He told me they had ended 3 times before and HE always went after her again. They had a EA and a PA and I believed it was very intense, both parts. Although I would love to say she's the lowest person on earth, I think she loved him. I do hate her now, but I can see how he fell for that, a "nice" woman completely in love with him. He said he felt completely free with her, able to talk about anything and that she helped him A LOT. I believe she did everything in bed with him too. I feel sick.

I asked him to write a NC letter to her and he said he will not do it because the A has ended already and this time is for good. You know why he believes it's for good? Because he doesn't want to hurt HER anymore! He's completely blind, I cannot believe he loves her for real... am I wrong?

He says she never came after him when they broke up before, he always took the initiative and he had to work "hard" to convince her to accept him back. That makes me nauseaus, it's like they had a real relationship... he says he is very sorry he hurt me, he wants to work on our marriage and he will do whatever it takes to fix his mistakes, but he will not do anything to hurt the OW because "she doesn't deserve it".

I hadn't talked to her for many months when I found out about the A. I called her one day and she didn't answer her phone, so I left her a nasty message, I was so upset. She never called me back. I called her again later, and left another message saying I wanted to talk to her, there are so many questions about the A I want to know, I think he's not telling me everything. I want to know all details, what they talked about, what they did in bed. She didn't answer me again. It's like she went completely NC with me.

I have his e-mail passwords and check his phone everyday, I don't think they are talking anymore. He doesn't have access to computers in his work. He told me they never wrote to each other, just phone calls, several times per week (plus the PA encounters). He also says she was very hurt when he broke up with her, and she told him she would never talk to him again. He keeps saying it's over and I don't have to worry about her, that now, we only have to work in our marriage.

I don't know what to do. I want to talk to her, she also betrayed me, we were friends and how come she did that? I just cannot believe it, she helped me so much in the past, with my problems, career, family, she was really a friend! When I started to think she had feelings for my H I was also feeling so guilty because I believed she was a good person and I was being paranoid, crazy, for having those thoughts. Then, when we drifted apart, I always had this bad feeling that maybe I had been unfair with her. 5 YEARS I felt this way, this is so sick! I hate hate hate her.

I sent her a letter last week, I told her about how I was feeling about HER betrayal, I asked her questions. She returned the letter without even opening it! I called her again and she finally answered me, she just said "I will never discuss my relationship with H with you, talk to him" and hung up. She changed her phone number now.

I know I have to focus on my M and this is what I want to do. I won't look for her anymore. But it bothers me so much that they had this deep relationship and that my H is completely against hurting her. I want him to write a very nasty letter to her and he said this is out of the question. He insists she'll never call or write to him anyway, so why should he hurt her because of his mistakes? I just don't understand this.

Am I going crazy here?
Please, give me some advices.

Sorry If I made mistakes, English is not my first language.

Edited: if it makes difference, we've been married for 10 years and have a 5 year old son. The OW is single.
Hi Winter, I'm sorry you have to be here. But here is where you will get plenty of very good advice. Advice that will help you if you listen to the people giving it. Everyone here has been affected by another's wayward behavior.

If you have not already done so, I suggest reading everything you can about Marriage Builder (MB) concepts and surviving infidelity. There are links to the right under the "Most Popular Links" section. If you can, get a copy of the book, Surviving an Affair by Dr. Willard Harley. You might find this at your local library, book store or here online.

Now to some specifics. You say you've been married but your husband (H) carried on this affair for five of those years. That he "ended it" three times. Well, as you can see, he never ended it, and according to you

Originally Posted by winter1939
I asked him to write a NC letter to her and he said he will not do it because the A has ended already and this time is for good. You know why he believes it's for good? Because he doesn't want to hurt HER anymore! He's completely blind, I cannot believe he loves her for real... am I wrong?
he is still not willing to end it. Since you are familiar with the abbreviations used here, you should also read up on Plan A and Plan b. You should begin Plan A, which means gathering evidence of his infidelity (not just his word) so that you can expose it to everyone who has influence over him. In the mean time, you need to start being the wife and mother of his child that he loved and married, in preparation for Plan B.

I've given you a lot in a very short time. It's overwhelming and a very traumatic time, so again, my first advice is to read up everything you can here, get Surviving an Affair, and then post on here to get the advice and directions on how to recover your marriage.
I pretty new here, so my take may not carry a lot of weight. The seasoned vets will chime in, I'm sure.

You've got a lot going in the positive direction right now, so concentrate on moving forward and don't dwell on their relationship in the past. Your husband seems sincere on breaking off the affair and wanting to work on the marriage. My wife hasn't expressed that desire, yet, so it could be much worse.

You're taking the wrong approach with the no contact letter. He is in withdrawal (from her) right now and will feel sad and moody. Nothing you can do to change that except to be there for him and try to meet his emotional needs. Forcing him to write a "nasty" letter will just make him feel worse and resent you more. Instead, the letter should state the reason for breaking it off is because he loves and wants to work on his family and continuing contact with her will not allow this. The letter needs to be sincere, not hurtful to anyone.

It sounds like your husband made the decision of his own accord to break it off (finally) and make his marriage work. You are way ahead of the game in that respect, so things are looking up.

Other will give you a ton of council on staying vigilant. As good as his intentions are now, he will be tempted daily to contact here again, especially if she initiates it.

Does the other woman have a family? Letting them know will also go a long way towards ending it.
The A died a natural death...after 5 years in most cases it does. However...he must write a NC letter and you must expose him to friends and family.
A are a choice and they have consequences. YOur H acted as a lyer and a cheater for 5 years. He has to live up to the consequences now. He can;t just say..well the A is over let's pretend it never happen adn I will return to beein the nice guy I was before the A.
It does not work that way.
I understand your obsession with OW, but leave her alone. Work on your M and your relationship with your H. Do not give her any importance.
My H also said to me after his 1st A that he actively pursued OW. They in fact do. They are cheaters and not only they choose the A they pursue the OW. So you see...you need to concentrate on putting the bar high for you recovery (R) and have your H meet your requests. If he can't....then he will soon cheat on you again, with her or yet another.
Stay strong and assert yourself. You have all the rights!
Never call OW again.
Blessing
Your H is in withdrawal and is being selfish (as are all waywards.) The NC letter isn't for the OW or for him so much as it is a demonstration of commitment to YOU. He needs to understand that.

You have the right to know what was going on in your M for those five years, and if that means knowing all the details of the A, so be it. He has to understand that and respect your RIGHT to know the truth of your marital history.

I do not believe the A is over. I believe it is in a holding pattern and will resurface at your WH's desire. If he is truly remorseful (and it sounds like he isn't) he will do what he needs to do in order to help you heal. If he refuses to write the NC letter, you need to decide if you are willing to accept a M that is in a holding pattern.

Do not contact the OW again. Consider her a non-entity in this. She will obviously not be helpful to you, so don't waste the energy on her.

Keep reading here. You'll learn a ton that will help you.
Originally Posted by schtoop
You've got a lot going in the positive direction right now, so concentrate on moving forward and don't dwell on their relationship in the past. Your husband seems sincere on breaking off the affair and wanting to work on the marriage. My wife hasn't expressed that desire, yet, so it could be much worse.

You're taking the wrong approach with the no contact letter. He is in withdrawal (from her) right now and will feel sad and moody. Nothing you can do to change that except to be there for him and try to meet his emotional needs. Forcing him to write a "nasty" letter will just make him feel worse and resent you more. Instead, the letter should state the reason for breaking it off is because he loves and wants to work on his family and continuing contact with her will not allow this. The letter needs to be sincere, not hurtful to anyone.

It sounds like your husband made the decision of his own accord to break it off (finally) and make his marriage work. You are way ahead of the game in that respect, so things are looking up.

Other will give you a ton of council on staying vigilant. As good as his intentions are now, he will be tempted daily to contact here again, especially if she initiates it.

Does the other woman have a family? Letting them know will also go a long way towards ending it.

He broke up with her because she was demanding more commitment from him. If she had continued to be OK with the way things were, he wouldn't have broke up with her. He told me that. He was feeling guilty for sure, but I wonder how much of that guilty was not towards HER... yeh, it's unbeliavable to think that, but I believe he was feeling guilty for betraying me and for "betraying her" too!

He says they haven't talked since the day he ended it. He says she never came after him when he ended before. He tried to be apart, he could do it just for a few months and then he went after her again. He says this time he really hurt her, she told him very clearly she would not put up with that anymore and it would be the end. He says he knows she will never look for him and he promised me he will never call her again.

Although I want him to write a nasty letter and humiliate her, I read other posts and suggested him a business-like NC letter. He still says NO. He says it will only hurt HER, it will no make any difference in our recovery because there will be no contact anymore anyways. He is protecting her feelings, I know that.

The OW has no family in this city. We are all new to this part of the country, that's how we met 6 years ago, we had no family or friends in this area. Since we drifted apart some years ago, I have no idea who are her friends now, where she works. We do have some friends in common, but they are really my friends, she separated from them too... I know they will be on my side and I dont think she will care if they hate her too.

Last night I told him I would expose the affair to everybdoy, put in the Facebook and internet and he went nuts... he said I'm doing this just to hurt the OW and that he cannot beleive I am spiteful. He said I want to work in our M, I want to be with you, but I will not agree in hurting her just because. I don't know what to do.

I will read Plan A and B, thanks.
winter, is she married?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
winter, is she married?

No, she's single.
I can't stop thinking about them together, I'm going crazy.
winter, I would get the book Surviving an Affair and follow the program of recovery. Following this plan can recover your marriage. Here is a thumbnail sketch of the program, and it really does work if you both use it:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
continued here
winter, how are you ensuring they have ended contact? How was he able to hide an affair that long? Do you live completely separate lives?
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
winter, how are you ensuring they have ended contact? How was he able to hide an affair that long? Do you live completely separate lives?

He said that the only way of contact was phone calls. I checked his private e-mail and found nothing, he rarely uses computer at home (I put a keylogger just in case) and he doesn't have acess to computers at work. I also think he would be scared of having something in writing, so I do believe it was only phone calls. I check his phone everyday and never saw a message or something like that. He also knows I will be chceking his phone bill to see all the calls. This is what I am doing now, is there something else I should do?

The PA happened on the weekends, when he said he had overtime to do. Sometimes he really had overtime, but most of time it was an excuse to get out the house and see her. That was part of the problem in their relationship, he was not being able to see her all the time anymore, I was getting suspicious of so many overtime (in this ecomony? yeh, right!) and they had to spend more time apart. She didn't accept that, and when it became a huge problem for her, he ended it. There are NO MORE overtimes for him, I don't care if he loses his job, this is no-negotiable. During the week, he goes and comes back from work with a friend of us.

What else I can do to be sure? I don't know why, but I really think they are not talking anymore, I know I may be wrong, but I think they are not. He told me that he was able to keep NC with her the other times too, but eventually he went after her because he missed her very much. He now says he won't go after her anymore, he learned his lesson, he wants to work on our M and NOT HURT HER anymore.

Each day I hater her more and more!!!!!!
Expose this affair to every human being you know. That means his parents, siblings and friends. If they worked together expose it at there work.

Expose it to every human being OW knows. Her parents, friends, siblings, everyone.

That will ensure the death of the Affair.
Originally Posted by winter1939
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What else I can do to be sure? I don't know why, but I really think they are not talking anymore, I know I may be wrong, but I think they are not. He told me that he was able to keep NC with her the other times too, but eventually he went after her because he missed her very much. He now says he won't go after her anymore, he learned his lesson, he wants to work on our M and NOT HURT HER anymore.

winter, as much as you want to kill him right now, please don't give into the temptation to attack him. He needs your help to withdraw. If he can draw TO you while he withdraws, your marriage can recover if you use the plan in SAA. As galling as this sounds, everytime you attack him, you make the OW look GOOD. And you don't want to do that.

But part of his draw to the OW was the SECRECY, so I would follow Gacks' advice and get the news of the affair out there. Tell your children, family and close friends. Tell the OW's family and friends via facebook so they can know what kind of person she is and protect themselves from her. This will RUIN the main binding force in the affair, which is a fantasy based on secrecy. The affair doesn't look so pretty anymore once others are looking on with disgust.
For an A to be able to last 5 years the secrecy played a big part. Also the week-ends together living the fantasy without bills, kids or problems played a big part.
At this point the A is half dead so the final blow is exposure and a good plan A from your part. That, IMO will give you a good % of being able to R your M well.
Blessing
winter, if it was phone calls, then look for a prepaid phone. Look for unaccounted cash spent, and charges on bank accounts or CC's for one. Like, if he bought $40 worth of gas one day, then two days later spent $50 at the same gas station, he may have bought a prepaid phone there.

Is his job one where you can surprise him there? If he's using a prepaid phone to contact her, he's probably keeping it at work. I don't know how the vets feels about this, but I personally would have no problem showing up unexpectedly and insisting on emptying his pockets.
Originally Posted by atena
For an A to be able to last 5 years the secrecy played a big part. Also the week-ends together living the fantasy without bills, kids or problems played a big part.
At this point the A is half dead so the final blow is exposure and a good plan A from your part. That, IMO will give you a good % of being able to R your M well.
Blessing

I'm afraid he will hate me if expose the A to HER friends and family. I found out about the A 2 months ago and since then, I told our friends and family, he didn't like it, he felt betrayed and it was a very dark period in our life, but he came to his senses and said he deserved to be seen as a bad person and he would take it. But when I said I would ruin her life too because of her part in the A, he was REALLY upset and said he would never forgive me if I did that. He said he will never forgive himself if something he participated willingly caused her ruin and in that case it would be better for us to divorce since he would never be able to live himself and that "I could do much better than him".

I want to hurt her too, but at the same trime, I don't want to jeopardize our recovery, other than "hurting" the OW (in his view of course), he is doing everything I ask... 1 month ago I made him call her in front of me, from his cell phone (like he used to do during the A) and she didn't answer it. I made him keep calling her until she finally answered and she said "I don't want to talk to you ever again" and hung up. She then changed her cell phone number too.

Am I being dumb again?
Should I risk it, and expose her too?
Originally Posted by canwemakeit
winter, if it was phone calls, then look for a prepaid phone. Look for unaccounted cash spent, and charges on bank accounts or CC's for one. Like, if he bought $40 worth of gas one day, then two days later spent $50 at the same gas station, he may have bought a prepaid phone there.

Is his job one where you can surprise him there? If he's using a prepaid phone to contact her, he's probably keeping it at work. I don't know how the vets feels about this, but I personally would have no problem showing up unexpectedly and insisting on emptying his pockets.

He works with my brother, there is NO way he's calling her now that everybody knows about the A. After I found out, I asked my brother to keep an eye on him, and my brother was able to transfer my H to the same department he works. They are ALWAYS together, that was also one of my no-negotiable requirements to keep the marriage.

I am controling our finances now, I check everything and I only give him a small weekly allowance for gas and food. But I will ask my brother to double check the workplace again.
Originally Posted by winter1939
Am I being dumb again?
Should I risk it, and expose her too?


Exposing her will accomplish a few things that really need to be accomplished: OW needs to be exposed to all who know her, so that they can protect their OWN loved ones from her. If they know she is an adultress they will be able to protect other marriages from her. Exposure will also remove the secrecy of the A and will expose the fantasy to a harsh reality. Affairs and reality are like oil and vinegar - they don't mix very well.

And if you accomplish the goal of feeling better having exposed her wicked ways, well, that's an added bonus. wink
Originally Posted by winter1939
...he will not do anything to hurt the OW because "she doesn't deserve it".
SHE doesn't deserve it?! She wanted him, even if it meant breaking up your family and taking him from you and his 5 y.o. son. No, she remains a threat to the M, not an innocent bystander.
I would say also make HIM get a new cell phone number. My H agreed to change his cell phone number because that was how OW knew how to reach him. The phone number that OW may have needs to be disconnected. The final contact was him sending OW a note that their relationship was over, that he would not be contacting her any longer and for her not to contact him. That he was committed to saving our marriage. He needs to let her know that it's over and completely BREAK all means of former communication.
He sees OW as a victim. Do you? She is no victim she choose to have the A with your H.
You should not come across as wanting revenge towards her but the response your H gave you in regards to you exposing her is quite revealing...he is still wayward at the core...he is still a lyer and a cheater.
I am not a vet here so I do not know what to suggest. Of course exposing OW might cost you your M...but if H is not 100% committed it will cost you M anyway...maybe not now but in a few months/years.
blessing
YES, EXPOSURE WORKS
Comment above is right on point. Your H is not committed to saving your marriage if he is still concerned about feelings, etc of OW. Are you guys in counseling? Highly recommend Christian counseling. But, it doesn't always magically stop A. My H and I went thru 2 different counselors where he said it was over and then I found out each time it was not over. We finally separated and began divorce process and he realized he needed to get himself right with God first before he could talk his way out of losing me and OW both. Your H has to DECIDE to get himself right with God and let God change him and give him the desire and strength to stop A. He cannot do it thru his own will.
Originally Posted by atena
He sees OW as a victim. Do you? She is no victim she choose to have the A with your H.
You should not come across as wanting revenge towards her but the response your H gave you in regards to you exposing her is quite revealing...he is still wayward at the core...he is still a lyer and a cheater.
I am not a vet here so I do not know what to suggest. Of course exposing OW might cost you your M...but if H is not 100% committed it will cost you M anyway...maybe not now but in a few months/years.
blessing

Yes, he does see her as a victim. He understands that she was part of something wrong and that having an affair is evil, but he believes she did that because she LOVED him, not because she's a sl*t or even a bad person. He said he pursued her for many months before she accepeted to even talk to him in private and that she fell very hard for him. That's his rationale, that's why he doesn't want to hurt her. DISGUSTING!!!
Originally Posted by winter1939
Am I being dumb again?
Should I risk it, and expose her too?

Yes, you should expose her. There is a huge difference between protecting someone from the consequences of their actions and "hurting" them. Keeping her dirty secret for her protects her from the consequences of her actions. She will be less likely to resume an affair wtih your H - or other married men - if there are consequences for her actions.

You are "hurting" her by protecting her from the consequences of her actions. She will never learn and grow from this if you keep her secret.

The reason your husband wants to keep it secret is so that he can keep that DOOR OPEN with the OW. So exposing it to everyone will make it much less likely the affair resumes.

If you exposed her to her facebook friends, for example, you will likely get emails from others who have news of other affairs. That could all be brought out into the open this way.
Originally Posted by forgave
Comment above is right on point. Your H is not committed to saving your marriage if he is still concerned about feelings, etc of OW. Are you guys in counseling? Highly recommend Christian counseling. But, it doesn't always magically stop A. My H and I went thru 2 different counselors where he said it was over and then I found out each time it was not over. We finally separated and began divorce process and he realized he needed to get himself right with God first before he could talk his way out of losing me and OW both. Your H has to DECIDE to get himself right with God and let God change him and give him the desire and strength to stop A. He cannot do it thru his own will.

We are catholics and are talking to a priest weekly. He does everything he is asked during the meetings, he does all homework and is being very cooperative with me, as long as it doesn't involve "hurting" OW.

I don't know what to do.
Expose her NOW!!

Do not warn either of them, just do it.

Do not tell your husband afterwards, this will test NC.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[quote=winter1939]
If you exposed her to her facebook friends, for example, you will likely get emails from others who have news of other affairs. That could all be brought out into the open this way.

What do you mean? Do you think she had other affairs too, while she was involved my husband? How will I know that?
I agree 100%. Exposure is a big part of stopping A. Also, your H needs to REMOVE OW as his facebook friend! No question. You need to get his login and password for FB so you can check activity and his friends.
Originally Posted by winter1939
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[quote=winter1939]
If you exposed her to her facebook friends, for example, you will likely get emails from others who have news of other affairs. That could all be brought out into the open this way.

What do you mean? Do you think she had other affairs too, while she was involved my husband? How will I know that?

FBers will respond to your story of the affair with stories of other affairs that she's had.
Originally Posted by winter1939
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[quote=winter1939]
If you exposed her to her facebook friends, for example, you will likely get emails from others who have news of other affairs. That could all be brought out into the open this way.

What do you mean? Do you think she had other affairs too, while she was involved my husband? How will I know that?

We had a recent member who did a facebook exposure who received an email back from a betrayed husband who said the OP had an affair with his wife too. [I think one of the facebook friends contacted this BH and gave him the BS' email address]

It would not surprise me at all to find out that she was doing someone else's husband too. And she might also have a BOYFRIEND who is on facebook who doesn't know she is a skank. Exposing to these facebook friends would alert any potential suitors that she is a skank.
Very likely she might have had other A. But this is irrelevant. You should just expose her. AS melody said...they have to live the the consequences of their action. Do not enable her... she is no saint. She is a sl*t.
I could have a married man pursue me as much as he wants..but I will tell him to FO and go to his wife...it takes a real sl*t to have a 5 year A with a M man.
blessing
Originally Posted by forgave
I agree 100%. Exposure is a big part of stopping A. Also, your H needs to REMOVE OW as his facebook friend! No question. You need to get his login and password for FB so you can check activity and his friends.

He doesn't have FB. He doesn't like computers and very rarely uses it. He doesn't even answers his e-mails, most times I did that for him.
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
Originally Posted by winter1939
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
[quote=winter1939]
If you exposed her to her facebook friends, for example, you will likely get emails from others who have news of other affairs. That could all be brought out into the open this way.

What do you mean? Do you think she had other affairs too, while she was involved my husband? How will I know that?

FBers will respond to your story of the affair with stories of other affairs that she's had.

I would love that to be true, but I don't think it happened in her case... long story, I don't want to go in details here, but I really believe she never got involved with other men.

I am considering doing the FB thing, I pray to God that this will not kill my chances of R.
winter, extraordinary measures have to be taken to recover from long term affairs. They are more entrenched. And this one has gone on so long because of the SECRECY. I really do feel that your H's threats about exposing the OW are so that he does not burn that bridge with her. That way he can keep the door open. You want to burn that bridge, baby. Make sure she is scared to death to even consider taking his call again.

The more people who know, the more people to keep them accountable. Here is what Dr Harley said about long term affairs:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
Expose!
Originally Posted by winter1939
I would love that to be true, but I don't think it happened in her case... long story, I don't want to go in details here,
Why it's anonymous?
Originally Posted by winter1939
I am considering doing the FB thing, I pray to God that this will not kill my chances of R.


First off, your H won't find out unless he is in contact, and secondly, your marriage can survive his temporary anger over exposure. It can't survive an ongoing affair. Your H wants to leave that door open so he can go back some day. *THAT* is the greatest threat to your recovery, winter.

Check this out:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
If the unfaithful spouse is offended by being exposed, so be it. Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.
You have to take that risk and expose. Yes H could be upset and want to D but I doubt it.
Just do it.
Blessing
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
First off, your H won't find out unless he is in contact, and secondly, your marriage can survive his temporary anger over exposure. It can't survive an ongoing affair. Your H wants to leave that door open so he can go back some day. *THAT* is the greatest threat to your recovery, winter.

Yes, I agree. I think my H wants to keep a door open. I told him that before and he denied it (of course), but as I said, I know him very well. He's afraid that the OW will hate HIM, deep inside he would like her to keep a "good image" about him.

I feel very sad. I love my H and I do want to keep my M. I think he wants that too, but it's like her shawdow will be always between us.
Why are you protecting this A?

Does this "old friend" OW need YOU to cover up her deeds? Absolutely NOT.
It will make him angry, who cares what she does... It is a vital step in protecting your M.

This is about you. You setting boundries. You standing up for yourself and M. You being brave enough to tell the truth, simply the truth-- and your desire to recover your M.

You do not have to call names- or give any morbid details. But you must expose.
The other woman basically told you to go F-off. Well, it is your turn to have a SAY in your life.

Expose. Expose now. Let your WH deal with his punishment. What the heck did he think was going to happen anyway?

DO not protect either of these people from the consequences of their actions. THIS WAS 5 YEARS of YOUR life they conspired to damage/hurt you...
You are worried about one hour of exposure?

seriously. Take the advice that has been given to you dozens of times. This will stop a repeat A.
Originally Posted by barbiecat
Why are you protecting this A?

Does this "old friend" OW need YOU to cover up her deeds? Absolutely NOT.
It will make him angry, who cares what she does... It is a vital step in protecting your M.

This is about you. You setting boundries. You standing up for yourself and M. You being brave enough to tell the truth, simply the truth-- and your desire to recover your M.

You do not have to call names- or gove details. But you must expose.
She told you to go F-off. Well, it is your turn to have a SAY in your life.

Expose. Expose now. Let your WH deal with his punishment. What the heck did he think was going to happen?

DO not protect either of these people from the consequences of their actions. THIS WAS 5 years of YOUR life they conspired to damage/hurt you...
You are worried about one hour of exposure?

seriously. Take the advice that has been given to you dozens of times. This will stop a repeat A.

*I* am not protecting this A... my H is.

I don't care about her feeling or whatever will happen to her once everybody knows about the A. I care about my H and his feelings. Yes, I know, he didn't give a [censored] about me and my feeling for 5 years, but once I made the decision to forgive him and keep my M, I want to do it right.

I understand exposing her will be the be right thing to do. And I said I am going to do. I am just afraid of how this will affect my chances of R with my H. He cheated on me, he lied and he doesn't deserve me, I get that, but I made a choice to be with him.

I'm just afraid, that's what I am saying here.
Originally Posted by winter1939
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
First off, your H won't find out unless he is in contact, and secondly, your marriage can survive his temporary anger over exposure. It can't survive an ongoing affair. Your H wants to leave that door open so he can go back some day. *THAT* is the greatest threat to your recovery, winter.

Yes, I agree. I think my H wants to keep a door open. I told him that before and he denied it (of course), but as I said, I know him very well. He's afraid that the OW will hate HIM, deep inside he would like her to keep a "good image" about him.

I feel very sad. I love my H and I do want to keep my M. I think he wants that too, but it's like her shawdow will be always between us.

winter, the main reasons this has gone on so long is because a) it has been kept secret which fueled the fantasy and b) the absence of consequences.

Think of it this way. Exposure is like bringing a crowd of onlookers into the crack house to watch the crackheads. It is no fun to get high when every one is watching with disgust on their face.

But if you don't bring in the crowd of onlookers, the addicts can freely get high and revel in their little sick fantasy world. When they LEAVE the crackhouse they remember only the good feelings of the narcotic high and WANT TO GO BACK! They feel tempted all the time.

But that high will be ruined and the feelings will be BAD if the last thing they remember is the disgust and horror of the people they love and respect watching. That will cause them to see themselves through the eyes of others. It will bust the fantasy.

And sure, the crackheads will be so FURIOUS when you ruin their little fantasy. But that is ok. They are high! When they are sobered up, they won;t be angry, they will be grateful that you brought them out of the sewer.

TURN ON THE LIGHTS IN THE CRACKHOUSE, BABY!
Winter...this comes from my personal experience. I lost my M because I did not expose my H during his first A.
I agreed to R the M even if H told me stuff such as OW helped me thru a very dark time...when the only alternative to the A was suicide. AND: She is a nice person, you would like her if you met her. AND: I do not want to hurt her as the A got pretty deep and we were really involved.....bla bla bla...
I drank the cool aid and then...after barely 3 years he started an A with the downstairs OW. She is a real sl8t and he is a real cheater so the combo was explosive.
IF I had exposed his first A and if I had followed the MB principles, maybe today I would not be separated from him with him living on his own and continuing his fantasy with OW durign week ends and at their leisure without her kids being in the way.....
Winter...if you want a chance to really R, expose. If you want a false R, don't.
AND...I am not yet done with exposure. Even if it has been 5 montsh since I expose to all our families and friends I have still not tackled the OW. And I will. Believe me. I am planning to expose to her priest, her friends and her ex H. And her kids who are 10 and 13. I will tell them to their face when she is not there that their mommy ruined my marriage by sleeping with my husband when he was still living with me and my son.
They need to know. There will be not pity in this. Revenge...yes, there is a lot of that too.
blessing
Originally Posted by winter1939
I understand exposing her will be the be right thing to do. And I said I am going to do. I am just afraid of how this will affect my chances of R with my H. He cheated on me, he lied and he doesn't deserve me, I get that, but I made a choice to be with him..

winter, the things we are telling you are with this goal in mind: recovery. I think it WILL affect your chances of recovery if you don't expose the affair. We are speaking as people who HAVE recovered our marriages and DID expose. Those that don't expose, have a much lower chance of recovery, IMO. Your H has been fighting this addiction for years, winter. That is because the bubble has never burst. If others knew about this, it would ruin the fantasy and burn that bridge possibly.
Originally Posted by atena
Winter...this comes from my personal experience. I lost my M because I did not expose my H during his first A.
I agreed to R the M even if H told me stuff such as OW helped me thru a very dark time...when the only alternative to the A was suicide. AND: She is a nice person, you would like her if you met her. AND: I do not want to hurt her as the A got pretty deep and we were really involved.....bla bla bla...
I drank the cool aid and then...after barely 3 years he started an A with the downstairs OW. She is a real sl8t and he is a real cheater so the combo was explosive.
IF I had exposed his first A and if I had followed the MB principles, maybe today I would not be separated from him with him living on his own and continuing his fantasy with OW durign week ends and at their leisure without her kids being in the way.....
Winter...if you want a chance to really R, expose. If you want a false R, don't.

I exposed the A to everybody in our circle. Friedns, family, workplace, church, neighbours. I did not expose it to HER circle, this is what he doesn't want me to do. He says we have to fix our M, our issues and he has to fix his issues so we'll be fine. "No need to ruin OW's life now that the A is done" (his words, not mine).

I'll do it, I am a friend on her FB, just pray for me.
Yes, winter, do it. She has everything to do with your R.
I will pray for you!
blessing
Originally Posted by winter1939
I'll do it, I am a friend on her FB, just pray for me.

Prayers are coming your way, friend. I would be sure and include your REAL email address so that anyone can follow up with you. You might even ask that someone call her parents and ask them to call you so you can have a one on one discussion with them.

Secondly, you will get supportive emails and you will also get emails from crapwits saying obnoxious, mean things. Just delete them and go on! You don't need the approval of crapwits anyway. Who cares what they think?

I would phrase the email something like this:

Dear friends of skankyhola,

It is with great regret that I write this letter, but I felt i should share some news about skanky. Skanky has been having a sexual affair with my H for the past 5 years. We have been married for 11 years and have 2 darling daughters, aged 5 and 8. Her affair with my husband has almost destroyed our marriage and my children's family.

I have evidence of the affair, along with my husband's admission of the details. When I emailed skanky and asked for her side of the story, she told me to get the details from my H, which I did.

I am sending this to warn you to watch your own marriages around her, because you could be at risk too. i would also appreciate it if someone could pass this message to Skanky's parents and ask them to call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx so I can speak to them personally.

Thank you,

Sally Winter
Timbuktu, New Yawk
sally@yahoo.com

Mel,

How did you know her first name and where she lived/email?

You are good!!!!!

winter,

take this advice and do it to the T.
Originally Posted by themud
Mel,

How did you know her first name and where she lived/email?

You are good!!!!!


Jes call me Madame Cleo from Texas! grin
I did it!
Originally Posted by winter1939
I did it!

I bet she defriends you on facebook. frown
Originally Posted by jmwc95
Originally Posted by winter1939
I did it!

I bet she defriends you on facebook. frown

I was surprised she hadn't done that yet. She is not into FB too much, she probably doesn't even remember she had me in her list of friends.
Good job, winter! Did you send emails to all her friends?

Just sit back and wait for the fireworks. Expect some nasty emails from some of her "friends" defending her affair and you won't be disappointed.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Good job, winter! Did you send emails to all her friends?

Just sit back and wait for the fireworks. Expect some nasty emails from some of her "friends" defending her affair and you won't be disappointed.

No, I don't have their e-mails. I sent a message through FB to all of them. I used your template.

So far nobody has answered me anything. She didn't have a lot of people in her list of friends, I remember she told me once (long time ago) she was not into FB and other internet social groups, so I don't even know she checks it often.
Awesome job, winter!

My sister did that to her OW and it was very effective.

hurray


Oh, and by the way, winter, the fact that OW told your H not to call her and changed her phone number may mean nothing, so don't relax your vigil as far as watching for resumed contact. Some A's thrive on drama (much like the break up/make up stuff high school kids go through), and the drama actually fuels the passion of the A.

My FWH and his AP spent a month waggling back and forth: "I'm going to work on my marriage"..."I can't imagine staying married and not being with you"..."It's over"..."Okay, I didn't mean it, it's not over"...you get the idea.
I got a message from one of her FB friends. It was a woman, she asked me if I was sure I was talking about the right person. She told me the OW was not even living in our state anymore, that she had accepted a job in another state and had moved some weeks ago and that I probably got the wrong person. She told me to not e-mail her anymore because she doesn't want to get involved in this kind of thing, but she wished me luck anyways.
Did the OW move? I would email her back and assure her it is the right person.
E-mail whom? The lady from FB or the OW?
the lady from facebook.
OK, I did that.

I'm going home now, I'll let you know tomorrow morning how things went.

Thanks everybody for all advices!
OMG, I am very upset, please please please tell me I did the right thing for my M.

I sent a message to all OW�s friends in her FB yesterday. I didn�t say anything to my H and just kept it a secret. One of the people on her list though knew my H and called us last night to ask him if that was true (the guy thought it was a spam). My H was at home, we were having dinner when the guy called him and my H was shocked! I heard him saying it was true, that it was probably a message from me and then he APOLOGIZED to that guy for my �mistake� in getting other people involved in our problems. Then it was HELL, just hell.

He said that there is no hope for us now. Not for a real marriage. He said he didn�t have to go through all this if he was not serious about us, because he chose to confess his A to me while all men just keep quiet. He said he did that because he really believed it had been a mistake and he wanted to work in our marriage and I never understood or appreciated that. He said we have problems in our M and we both have to work on them, that he is doing everything I ask him because he knows how much he hurt me, and that the only thing he needed was to not involve OW in our lives anymore and I couldn�t do that. He says he now understands what I feel, what it is to not be able to trust the person you married to and what chances a marriage has in this situation?

We had a huge fight, I�ve never seen so upset, so disappointed and yes, so HURT like he was last night. He told me what I did will not make any difference in our R, I had exposed him already and only wanted to expose her to punish her. I was very upset and I told him it was true, that I hate her and I want her dead, called her names and said that if he cared so much about her he could go back to her. He said if he wanted to do that he would have done it already and that he was very disappointed to see how hateful I was. He then said this is the real problem in our marriage, every time there is an issue I blame something else, another person or another situation, when the real problem is us. He said OW had nothing to do with our problems, she was a person he met when he was having issues and that instead of working his issues with me he went after her, but that she had nothing do with our M. He said our M was bad before the A, it was bad during the A and it certainly is bad now, after the A ended.

I�ve never seen him like that before. He said �she will probably lose her job, she will hate me forever, she may lose all her friends and maybe she�ll end up lonely and bitter and sad like you dream. Who knows, if you are lucky, maybe she will die soon too, will you be happy with that? Do you think that this will make our M stronger?� He said I have no idea what happened between them, that she had helped him and loved him during his lowest period, and that he will never hate her like I want him to. He said she could have made me the most miserable person on earth if she wanted to hurt me� and she chose not to. He even said �ask your friends in the internet how their OW behaved, you have no idea how much hurt she could have brought to you�. I told him she was not a saint, she had slept with a MARRIED man and he said he knew that, she knew that too, that�s why they had ended it, that�s why she was moving on with her life. But that it was not enough for me, I did that just to make her feel miserable and that this is more important to me than working in our M.

He slept in the basement last night and left to work this morning without talking to me. I wanted to check her FB again this morning but she deleted her account. Then I checked my e-mails and she had sent me a message. She wrote �For the last time I will tell you, I will not discuss my R with H with you, GO TALK TO HIM to fix your issues and leave me alone. This e-mail address will be closed now and I will not answer any messages, calls or letters from you ever again. If you continue harassing and trying to get in contact with me, I will call the police.�

I don�t know what�s going to happen now. I didn�t tell him one of her FB friends told me she had moved. I don�t think he knows that. I tried to talk to him when I got calmer last night but he didn�t want to hear anything from me, he just said we should separate since it�s �obvious� we both don�t respect each others feelings, got his clothes and went to the basement. I feel so sad. Later that night I heard him crying for a long time. I don�t know if he was crying because of me, our M or her�

He left this morning with a luggage and took some clothes with him. He didn�t take a ride with our friend as usual, he drove his car to work. I don�t know what that means� I just called him at work and he didn�t answer, I talked to my brother and he told me H is very quiet, looks depressed and is not talking to anybody.

Now what?
Winter, I know you are devastated right now but you really did the right thing.
How dare you H talk to you about the OW as if she was a saint. The words he said are the EXACT same one my H said to me when we were "recovering" from his first A. She helped him at a very low point in his life, our M had problems before, during (dahh) and after (double dahh) the A. She was nice...she could have ruined me if she wanted to...bla bla
Men like these are not over the A and will cheat again. You can bet on that.
If he can't let go of her, if he can't understand that you are more important no matter what you do and that you have the right to have your feelings honored...then he did the right thing to leave.
Do not beat yourself up for this Winter. Wait and see what happens in the next few days. It is too early to tell.
Blessing
Now watch as the affair starts to crumble. Good job, Winter!

You're going to have some tough moments as the fallout spreads, so make sure you come here and rant, vent, cry and worry. To the world at large you must appear calm and confident.

You have done the right thing. Never forget that!
YES, The A was not dead yet...that is why your H was so heated about it..he was hoping to resume it soon,. Now it is really over for OW and your H.
blessing
Typical wayward babble. Do NOT allow him to bully you like this! OW is a skank. You know that. We all know that. If there are any repercussions on her it will be because she made the decision to be a low-life sleaze who involved herself with a married man. Not once is she going to hear "Okay, we have to fire you now because the BS is upset." Count on it.

Come here so your resolve doesn't weaken. You have struck a huge blow into this A. That's the fallout you're going to be seeing.

Good job on the exposure.
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
Now watch as the affair starts to crumble. Good job, Winter!

You're going to have some tough moments as the fallout spreads, so make sure you come here and rant, vent, cry and worry. To the world at large you must appear calm and confident.

You have done the right thing. Never forget that!

He says the affair was done already and doing this was "overkill', just to hurt OW. He is taking all the blame and exposing him to our family and friends was a huge wake-up call. He just doesn't see that exposing her is part of our R, and maybe I didn't know how to show that... I made very clear last night how much I hate her and I was happy she would suffer, so he's using this as a proof I am not interested in working on our issues and just wanted revenge.

I asked my friend to go to her house to confirm she is not living there anymore. She told me it's true, the new owners said they bought her house some weeks ago and that the previous owner (the OW) was moving to another state. It looks like she is done with my H, I wonder if HE is done with her too.

I NEVER saw my H cry before, never. Not even when his father passed away, he was always very controlled. I can't still believe how much he cried last night and I think he was crying for her... I am so hurt.

He still doesn't want to talk to me.
:-(
Originally Posted by atena
YES, The A was not dead yet...that is why your H was so heated about it..he was hoping to resume it soon,. Now it is really over for OW and your H.
blessing

But what do I do now? He doesn't want to talk to me and I think he'll want to be away from me for a while... should I just pretend I don't care? Should I try to talk to him?

I'm afraid of losing him, he was doing well in our R before that...
No Winter, he was not doing well on the R. He was still defending OW and the scary thing he was saying is that she HELPED him at a time when he was at a low point. So you know what, next time things reach a low point again...he is going to look for another woman to help him thru. I can tell you that for sure...it becomes a lifestyle. It did for my H. And again, your H's words are a copy of what mine said...
This is a great chance for your H to work thru his grief and issues. Yes, he is crying for her. Imagine how over he was...really.
YOu did the right thing.
blessing
I think the OW made some very positive statements that support the end of the A. That doesn't mean the A is over. The A isn't over until your WH comes out of his fog and makes advances toward R.

I can only speculate the reason for the crying. I suspect it's the result of a few things:

Realizing that your actions have dealt what is probably a fatal blow to the A. Before this he may have been thinking that it is something he could go back to.

The guilt and the embarrassment that exposure brings.

Mainly, though, he may be wallowing in self-pity - his life is a mess, he had it all together before and now it's gone to he77, why do bad things happen to him, his 'crutch' is gone, etc. It's part of the withdrawal process.
Originally Posted by winter1939
He says the affair was done already and doing this was "overkill', just to hurt OW. He is taking all the blame and exposing him to our family and friends was a huge wake-up call. He just doesn't see that exposing her is part of our R, and maybe I didn't know how to show that... I made very clear last night how much I hate her and I was happy she would suffer, so he's using this as a proof I am not interested in working on our issues and just wanted revenge.

I asked my friend to go to her house to confirm she is not living there anymore. She told me it's true, the new owners said they bought her house some weeks ago and that the previous owner (the OW) was moving to another state. It looks like she is done with my H, I wonder if HE is done with her too.

I NEVER saw my H cry before, never. Not even when his father passed away, he was always very controlled. I can't still believe how much he cried last night and I think he was crying for her... I am so hurt.

He still doesn't want to talk to me. :-(
Typical wayward bullch!t. "The affair was already over" is babblespeak for, "I'm rewriting history as I talk. The affair wasn't over, but now that you've driven a stake in its heart, I'm going to pretend it was."

I also love how waywards try to 'guilt' the betrayed spouse by saying, "you want to hurt OW." Oh, really? Just what do you think you were doing to ME while you were out violating your vows?

You have a tremendous Plan A opportunity now. His anger will subside and, if OW has truly moved and they're out of touch, his withdrawal will start setting in.

Be strong. You have the high ground right now. Don't give it up.
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
I think the OW made some very positive statements that support the end of the A. That doesn't mean the A is over. The A isn't over until your WH comes out of his fog and makes advances toward R.

I can only speculate the reason for the crying. I suspect it's the result of a few things:

Realizing that your actions have dealt what is probably a fatal blow to the A. Before this he may have been thinking that it is something he could go back to.

The guilt and the embarrassment that exposure brings.

Mainly, though, he may be wallowing in self-pity - his life is a mess, he had it all together before and now it's gone to he77, why do bad things happen to him, his 'crutch' is gone, etc. It's part of the withdrawal process.

But what do I do now?

I am not sure I wanted to know what I know now. That the OW closed the door to him and he was fighting to keep it open.
:-(
Yep, she dumped him and he was hoping to re-start it with her. NOw you killed that hope.
She inflicted tremendous pain on you. Your H does not mention that does he? He only talks about the pain you give her..! Really?! He will come out of the fog. He should thank you for the slap in the face you are giving him and her.
blessing
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
I also love how waywards try to 'guilt' the betrayed spouse by saying, "you want to hurt OW." Oh, really? Just what do you think you were doing to ME while you were out violating your vows?

You have a tremendous Plan A opportunity now. His anger will subside and, if OW has truly moved and they're out of touch, his withdrawal will start setting in.

Be strong. You have the high ground right now. Don't give it up.

But this is the point, he says HE violated our vows, HE hurt me and that exposing her after the A was done, was only to "hurt" her and that we should be working on our M.

I'm not trying to defend him, I'm just repeating what he told me because I don't know how to refute that. I DID want to hurt her and was not even thinking about what the expsoure could do to their A, I just wanted to shame her. I don't even know if I accomplished that, nobody wrote to me saying anything.

Please, tell me what should I do NOW? Do I go after him, try to talk to him, pretend I don't care he left our house?
Originally Posted by winter1939
[He says the affair was done already and doing this was "overkill', just to hurt OW. He is taking all the blame and exposing him to our family and friends was a huge wake-up call. He just doesn't see that exposing her is part of our R, and maybe I didn't know how to show that... I made very clear last night how much I hate her and I was happy she would suffer, so he's using this as a proof I am not interested in working on our issues and just wanted revenge.
:-(

winter, your H is upset because you have slammed the door shut on his affair and he can't go back now. He sounds very, very foggy. I suspect what happened is that the OW dumped him recently but he still held out hope that she would take him back. This is how he has operated for years.

You have done nothing wrong. It is wrong to have an affair. It is wrong to lie. It is wrong to sleep with married men. IT IS NOT WRONG TO EXPOSE SUCH BAD BEHAVIOR.

Do you understand, winter? You have done nothing wrong. Nothing.

This is not about revenge for the OW, this is a consequence of her own behavior with your husband. If she hadn't slept with a married man, there would be nothing to expose.

winter, just calm down and he will be back. He is angry that you have interfered with his affair and made is extremely hard to ever go back. I strongly suspect he was hoping for a way to get back with her and you have now disappointed that hope.

Originally Posted by winter1939
But what do I do now?

I am not sure I wanted to know what I know now. That the OW closed the door to him and he was fighting to keep it open.
:-(
Plan A.

You make yourself into the wonderful woman he fell in love with and wanted to spend the rest of his life with.

This is not "Plan Doormat." This just means that you understand his withdrawal (just like an alcoholic or addict goes through withdrawal) will mean he's going through his own version of the "emotional rollercoaster."

Avoid Love Busters, but make it clear that you want to work on the marriage and build it into something better and stronger than it was.
Winter, the A was all about him. He needs to face the fact that you drive the R bus. Quietly tell him that exposing OW for who she is gives you the peace and assurance that she is truly out of your lives and will help you to get through the devasation that the A wreaked on your life. Now you can begin to R personally as well as in your M.

God's Blessings,

Say
Originally Posted by winter1939
[q

But this is the point, he says HE violated our vows, HE hurt me and that exposing her after the A was done, was only to "hurt" her and that we should be working on our M.

*SHE* slept with your husband, winter. You don't get any more cruel than that. Everyone should know that is the kind of cruel, heartless person she is. You are not obliged to protect her by keeping her filthy secret.

I wouldn't go after him. He is upset that you have ruined his affair and is not in his right mind. He will calm down.

AND QUIT REACTING TO HIS ANGER, WINTER!! Stop it. He is not in his right mind. You have snatched the crack pipe from a crack head, that is all. He won't be angry anymore when he sobers up from his affair high.
winter, your husband is trying to make you the BAD GUY when you are actually the victim here. And you are buying it! You are allowing yourself to be manipulated.

It is bad to commit adultery.

It is bad to lie to your spouse

It is bad to sleep with another womans husband

It is not "bad" to expose those crimes to others
winter, you are going to have to accept some basic facts: your H is a wayward. Waywards are selfish people who feel entitled to rewrite the rules in order to get whatever they want. He rewrote the rules and had an A. He and the OW engaged in selfish, destructive behavior that was a direct assault on you. That whole business of YOU hurting HER? Piffle. Don't let him make you feel guilty or wrong for exposing a cancer on your M. That woman is a low-life who deserves no sympathy or respect for the harm that she has inflicted upon you.

You are probably going to hear a lot of things about your WH's A that will be very painful. I know it hurts to realize that he wanted someone else. That's a knife in any BS's heart. As time goes by these revelations about your WH's emotions will be less painful for you. You will realize that what he was chasing wasn't the OW, but the emotional needs she was filling for him. He'll realize that, too. You know how? Because he will go through withdrawal and will come out of his fog and see this beautiful woman he married, (who is Plan A'ing to beat the band). You will be filling those needs.

You know, in the old days they stoned adulterous women. I'm not so sure we've evolved since nowadays it's not considered unusual to cover up and dismiss affairs. frown
Originally Posted by winter1939
I told him it was true, that I hate her and I want her dead,
Seems normal to me.

But hey, I'm in the anger stage. grin


Originally Posted by winter1939
I just called him at work and he didn�t answer, I talked to my brother and he told me H is very quiet, looks depressed and is not talking to anybody.

Now what?
Call your brother and tell him WHY your H is so depressed. Tell him you exposed his POS OW and that he is all hurt because OW, who helped destroy your marriage, may be a little upset.

A good brother may snatch a not in his but, and tell him to have a coke and a smile and get over it!

Originally Posted by winter1939
He says the affair was done already
This is a flat out lie. If he had no hopes of ever seeing OW again, he would not care.
Double post
Winter,

It's simple really. WW and OW chose behavoir, with it come the consequences of that behavoir.
My H called me, he said he wants to talk to our son and explain to him why he will not be at home for a while. He said we need time apart because we both have boundaries issues and don't respect each other feelings. He will be staying with his brother until he can find a place for him. He wants to leave work earlier and come home to talk to my son and say he'll be away for a while because of work.

He's still making me feel guilty about the FB thing. I told him I don't want to hear anything about the OW again, and he said I keep insisting that our problems were OW's fault and that I "just don't understand". He said that since he confessed his A, he's being doing everything I ask him and the only thing he asked me was to leave OW alone and I could not do that. He said it broke his heart to lie to me for 5 years so he finally decided he would be honest and tell me about the A even though there was no chance of me finding out, but he feels it was a mistake because I never appreciated that he was sorry for what he did and wanted to work in our M. And then he said again, "it is not about the OW, your just don't understand that".

Anyway, he's coming home soon, he wants to say goodbye to our son and get some more clothes. He told me he will be back Sunday to spend time with our son and that he hopes I don't make trouble for him to see him.

Originally Posted by winter1939
My H called me, he said he wants to talk to our son and explain to him why he will not be at home for a while. He said we need time apart because we both have boundaries issues and don't respect each other feelings. He will be staying with his brother until he can find a place for him. He wants to leave work earlier and come home to talk to my son and say he'll be away for a while because of work.

winter, he wants to be allowed to LIE and SPIN to your son about the source of the trouble in your marriage. He is FURIOUS that you have cut off his path back to the OW. As he has lied to you and spun the reason for his adultery, he wants to do the same to your child. That is not acceptable. If your child is over the age of 4, you should set him down NOW and explain to him that his dad has been having an adulterous affair for 5 years and is leaving because he is angry that you have exposed the affair. Explain to your child WHY adultery is immoral and give him moral guidance.

Don't allow your husband to whitewash his crime and blame his bad behavior on you, winter. He is trying to shift the blame for his affair ON YOU. DO NOT ALLOW HIM TO DO THIS.

Here is what Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders says about that:

Quote
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.
An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.

Did you do what I advised?
Originally Posted by winter1939
. And then he said again, "it is not about the OW, your just don't understand that".

winter, please try to understand that your husband is very foggy and is still high on the fumes of his affair. That is evidenced by foggy, insane comments like the above. For him to imagine the source of your troubles is NOT an adulterous affair is insane. There is nothing that could have been happening in the marriage that would be as destructive.

My point in saying this is so that you DO NOT take what he says seriously. He is no more rational than a falling down drunk who just got cut off at the bar. That is why he is angry. I very much believe he was still pursuing the OW while giving lip service to his marriage in case he couldn't get through to the OW. You have ruined that.

Your husband's fury about your exposure of the OW tells me that you have hit a major ARTERY of the affair. The angrier they are about exposure, the more effective the exposure. I suspect this may be the much needed death blow to the affair, winter.

As your H withdraws from her and accepts that there is really no hope, he will calm down and come back. This is a good thing, winter, not a bad thing.
Originally Posted by Gack1
Did you do what I advised?
Talk to my brother?

Yes, I did. But it didn't change anything on my H's behaviour. He doesn't sound mad or angry or even upset, he sounds sad and "disappointed" with me...

I know, I know...
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
winter, he wants to be allowed to LIE and SPIN to your son about the source of the trouble in your marriage. He is FURIOUS that you have cut off his path back to the OW. As he has lied to you and spun the reason for his adultery, he wants to do the same to your child. That is not acceptable. If your child is over the age of 4, you should set him down NOW and explain to him that his dad has been having an adulterous affair for 5 years and is leaving because he is angry that you have exposed the affair. Explain to your child WHY adultery is immoral and give him moral guidance.

Don't allow your husband to whitewash his crime and blame his bad behavior on you, winter. He is trying to shift the blame for his affair ON YOU. DO NOT ALLOW HIM TO DO THIS.

My son is almost 6 years old... I feel horrible that I have to put him through this. I don't know if I can do it.
Originally Posted by winter1939
My son is almost 6 years old... I feel horrible that I have to put him through this. I don't know if I can do it.

It is horrible that your husband has done this to his family. You should not allow your husband to LIE to that child and whitewash his crime.

Dont' do it, winter. Your H has been allowed to LIE to cover up for his crimes for way too long. HONESTY is the solution to adultery, not more lies and not more BLAMESHIFTING.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

Quote
Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.


Quote
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here

Quote
2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
here

Quote
My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.
here
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
winter, please try to understand that your husband is very foggy and is still high on the fumes of his affair. That is evidenced by foggy, insane comments like the above. For him to imagine the source of your troubles is NOT an adulterous affair is insane. There is nothing that could have been happening in the marriage that would be as destructive.

My point in saying this is so that you DO NOT take what he says seriously. He is no more rational than a falling down drunk who just got cut off at the bar. That is why he is angry. I very much believe he was still pursuing the OW while giving lip service to his marriage in case he couldn't get through to the OW. You have ruined that.

Your husband's fury about your exposure of the OW tells me that you have hit a major ARTERY of the affair. The angrier they are about exposure, the more effective the exposure. I suspect this may be the much needed death blow to the affair, winter.

As your H withdraws from her and accepts that there is really no hope, he will calm down and come back. This is a good thing, winter, not a bad thing.

He thinks that his inability to deal with the issues on our M were the problem. The A was the consequence of his wrong behaviour. The OW has nothing to do with us and our M.

How long will he be in fog?
And what does it mean "he'll accept there's no hope anymore"? Will he "settle" for me?

I'm going crazy, I HATE my life right now!
He thinks he can walk all over you. Once he moves out, hit him with legal separation and get him on the hook for child support and alimony. He needs to feel some consequences from his actions, and he needs to learn to respect you. Stand up for yourself.
Originally Posted by jmwc95
He thinks he can walk all over you. Once he moves out, hit him with legal separation and get him on the hook for child support and alimony. He needs to feel some consequences from his actions, and he needs to learn to respect you. Stand up for yourself.

I don't want to divorce. If I wanted that, I would have done when he told me about the A. I want to recover my M and to have a family together. I will not allow him to treat me badly or "walk all over me", but I think we still have a chance to make it work.

But if I'm wrong and this kind of behaviour shows that there is no chance for our M to recover, please let me know, because my brain is NOT working anymore and I just can't understand anything!
Originally Posted by winter1939
[

He thinks that his inability to deal with the issues on our M were the problem. The A was the consequence of his wrong behaviour. The OW has nothing to do with us and our M.

The reason you were unable to work on the marriage is because HE WAS HAVING AN AFFAIR. He is trying to spin the story and blame it on you.

Quote
How long will he be in fog?

for as long as it takes him to withdraw from the OW and give up his hopes of a resumption. You are aiding in bursting the fantasy that has bolstered his FOG. That is all that is happening here, winter. He is furious that you are interfering with his FANTASY.

Quote
And what does it mean "he'll accept there's no hope anymore"? Will he "settle" for me?

"no hope" for the future of the affair.

winter, you have to stop reacting to his fogbabble. If you react with guilt and FEAR you will hand him ammunition to use against you. You have to STOP THIS. You need to buck up and be firm here.

You have done nothing WRONG. It is wrong to LIE. It is wrong to CHEAT. It is not wrong to expose those crimes. You are not obliged to keep OW's secret for her. That is ridiculous.

Don't fight with him, don't try to reason with him, just tell him "I am sorry you are so upset, but I will do what I have to do to protect this family from your affair. The OW's friends and family have a right to know what she has done, too."
Originally Posted by winter1939
But if I'm wrong and this kind of behaviour shows that there is no chance for our M to recover, please let me know, because my brain is NOT working anymore and I just can't understand anything!

No, this behavior DOES NOT indicate at all that there is no chance for recovery. This behavior indicates your H is MAD becuase you interfered with his affair.

Your interference makes REAL RECOVERY much more possible.

winter, affairees always get mad about exposure. EVERYONE OF THEM DO!! But it is not the end of the marriage, IT IS THE START OF RECOVERY.

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley
Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.
Winter set your boundries and then stay behind the fence,Let him come to you. He is trying to punish you!
ok, winter, are you ready to stop freaking out and get back to work here? If you calm down, lets discuss next steps, because getting excited over your fogged out husbands temper tantrum is a waste of time that will only divert you from your mission.

You are trying to negotiate with a 2 year old who is on the floor having a tantrum. A waste of time...
I called my H and told him I want to tell the truth to our son but I'm not ready to do it today, so if he wanted to come and explain what he did he could come, but I would not allow more lies in our house. If he didn't want to talk to him, he could not come today and I would explain to our son during the weekend.

He said he'll think about it and call me later.
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
ok, winter, are you ready to stop freaking out and get back to work here? If you calm down, lets discuss next steps, because getting excited over your fogged out husbands temper tantrum is a waste of time that will only divert you from your mission.

You are trying to negotiate with a 2 year old who is on the floor having a tantrum. A waste of time...

Yes, I'm ready to start working on my M. But I don't think I can deal with my H while he's like that, maybe he's right and it will be better if we stay away for a while.
Your marriage can survive his anger.

It can not survive an affair.

And I agree with everyone else that even though the physical part appeared to be over, from your H's perspective, the emotional part was not. And that's dangerous. You need to wipe out the A, exterminate it as though it were bubonic plague.

Then you can start to work on R.
Originally Posted by winter1939
I don't want to divorce. If I wanted that, I would have done when he told me about the A. I want to recover my M and to have a family together. I will not allow him to treat me badly or "walk all over me", but I think we still have a chance to make it work.

But if I'm wrong and this kind of behaviour shows that there is no chance for our M to recover, please let me know, because my brain is NOT working anymore and I just can't understand anything!

I didn't tell you to get a divorce. I just told you to put an end to your WH's cake eating. He will eat cake as long as you allow. Your marriage is LESS LIKELY to survive the longer you allow him to eat cake because it allows him to do more damage your marriage and erode your lovebank. The longer you allow this behavior, the more he feels entitled to continue it. Ever hear the saying, "give him an inch and he'll take a mile." Don't give another inch.

Your WH needs to feel consequences for his behavior. You are shielding him from those consequences and enabling him to continue his abuse of you.

If you get a divorce lawyer that hits him hard in the form of a very unattractive separation settlement, he'll be less likely to pursue divorce. Living on his own in a dump with most of his money coming straight out of his paycheck to you will certainly make him think, "Is this better than staying married." He wants to know what it would be like to be single, give him a taste. Let him choke on it.
Also, by getting the legal separation, it allows you to go to a dark plan B. Guess what happens then. He might worry about losing YOU. Right now he knows he can always to back to you. You've made that clear. By going dark, he has no idea if you are ready to move on. It makes him speed up the decision process. He may feel like he has to agree to your Plan B letter conditions or he'll be stuck with no one. You take the power back in the relationship.
Originally Posted by winter1939
I called my H and told him I want to tell the truth to our son but I'm not ready to do it today, so if he wanted to come and explain what he did he could come, but I would not allow more lies in our house. If he didn't want to talk to him, he could not come today and I would explain to our son during the weekend.

He said he'll think about it and call me later.

You handled this beautifully, winter. The critical issue here is that a) your son needs to be told the TRUTH about the source of turmoil in his family: THE AFFAIR and b) your H should not be allowed to tell him lies and spin this as he has with you. That will teach your son dishonesty.

The boy needs to be told the TRUTH about why his dad is leaving for the weekend.

winter, your marriage may not have been a happy place, but it takes TWO people to screw up a marriage. He is equally at fault for that. AND HE IS 100% AT FAULT FOR CHOOSING TO COMMIT ADULTERY.

I would tell him this:

"I love you and want our marriage to work, but I know it can't work if it is based on dishonesty and secrecy. I am here and ready to work on the marriage on that basis." <----just be a broken record
winter, there is absolutely no reason to contact a lawyer. When your husband calms down, he will come home. His anger will blow over.
Originally Posted by jmwc95
I didn't tell you to get a divorce. I just told you to put an end to your WH's cake eating. He will eat cake as long as you allow. Your marriage is LESS LIKELY to survive the longer you allow him to eat cake because it allows him to do more damage your marriage and erode your lovebank. The longer you allow this behavior, the more he feels entitled to continue it. Ever hear the saying, "give him an inch and he'll take a mile." Don't give another inch.

Your WH needs to feel consequences for his behavior. You are shielding him from those consequences and enabling him to continue his abuse of you.

If you get a divorce lawyer that hits him hard in the form of a very unattractive separation settlement, he'll be less likely to pursue divorce. Living on his own in a dump with most of his money coming straight out of his paycheck to you will certainly make him think, "Is this better than staying married." He wants to know what it would be like to be single, give him a taste. Let him choke on it.

Jim, I appreciate your advices, but I don't think this is what's happening with my H. He doesn't want to be single, I am pretty sure of that. He wanted to be with me and his OW for sure, I mean, isn't that the point of every WH? That's why he's upset now, because he realized he CAN NOT.

And you know what? I think I was wrong when I thought that the OW was the problem, trying to seduce him and destroy our M. IT BREAKS MY HEART to say that, but it's pretty obvious he was the one going after her. Whatever happened between them, it's pretty clear she moved on, she's not the one complaining she cannot talk to him anymore or is worried of what he's thinking about her.

I do believe my H is in a fog and it's being very hurtful for me to see that. He's not saying "I miss her, she's wonderfeul", but I know him and I can see he's desperate because he knows now that SHE will not want him. Do you have any idea how hurtful this is?

And not matter how much I love my H, I will never accept him back if it's because "being single is not better than being married". If he cannot love me anymore, then we'll divorce, but I will not accept crumbs. I am not a OW, I deserve a whole relationship.
>Do you have any idea how hurtful this is?


Nearly everyone here knows exactly how hurtful it is.
Amidst all his fogbabble, Winter, I think he said one thing that was dead on. He probably said it for the wrong reasons, but it's really the truth.

He said: It's not about her, the OW.

It's never about the other person. It's about you and him and THE MARRIAGE. A good friend told me this right after I busted my H on his EA and was hysterical and ready to disembowel the OW.

He told you that in a fogbabble of wanting to protect her and keep his path back to her clear. But you should take those words at their literal meaning. OW means nothing more than the dirt on the bottom of your shoe. Don't even waste time or energy thinking about her. Put your energy into your marriage and listen to the vets here. The advice is right on target.
Originally Posted by winter1939
I do believe my H is in a fog and it's being very hurtful for me to see that. He's not saying "I miss her, she's wonderfeul", but I know him and I can see he's desperate because he knows now that SHE will not want him. Do you have any idea how hurtful this is?

winter, the reason your H feels this way is because the fantasy has thrived on secrecy for years. Your exposure has ruined all that. Now the OW is ticked off and much less likely to take him back. People are looking at him with sheer disgust which BURSTS the fantasy he has held all these long years.

You have simply opened the vampires coffin and he is screaming, screaming, resisting the day light. But that is ok. It is the first step towards recovery.

Please listen to this very carefully, winter. Most marriages do not ever recover from adultery. They do not know how to create romantic love in the marriage that replaces the fantasy feelings of the affair. However, you do have a chance to do that if you use this program in its entirety. You and your H can have a passionate, romantic marriage that makes his affair PALE in comparison. You can have that.
Originally Posted by winter1939
He thinks that his inability to deal with the issues on our M were the problem. The A was the consequence of his wrong behaviour.

Adultery isn't a consequence... it was a CHOICE made by your WH. There were likely many other choices open to him. He chose poorly.

Don't let him try to convince you otherwise.

Those feelings of embarrassment he's going through now? That's a better example of a CONSEQUENCE.

Do not buy into his crap about OW being a good woman, blah, blah. She is playing her game for keeps. What she has done is to go into the OW version of Plan B, in order to force him into deciding to divorce you.

What she is counting on is your lovebusting your H.

Exposing her is GOOD, because that ends any hope she had of claiming that she didn't get together with your WH until after your divorce.

Listen to Melody.

Do NOT lovebust your WH...no angry outbursts or fighting. Don't fight with him about your exposure of her. Smile and CALMLY say, "I only did what is best for our marriage. Do you want a piece of cake (or any type of snack you have on hand)?"

Focus on making your home a warm and inviting place to be.

Meet as many of his needs as you can.

Take care of yourself and your son. Be the absolute BEST that you can be.

Your husband will get over his anger.
Listen to LC...every word from her fingers is pure gold.
Sorry about the two posts. The first one posted before I was finished with it, and MB wouldn't let me delete it.
Originally Posted by winter1939
Originally Posted by Gack1
Did you do what I advised?
Talk to my brother?

Yes, I did. But it didn't change anything on my H's behaviour. He doesn't sound mad or angry or even upset, he sounds sad and "disappointed" with me...

I know, I know...
Did you tell your brother WHY your husband is acting this way?
That he is fealing pitty for the woman that tried to destroy your marriage.
Wow, you are amazing, thank you so much for all your support... I don't know what it would have happened if I hadn't find this place. Thanks, thanks, thanks!

My H called me and told me he wants to come on Sunday. He asked me to not tell anything to my son yet, he wants to be present when we talk to him. I agreed to that.

Hopefully, spending 2 days apart will help both of us to see the situation better. I will try very hard to control myself and not discuss the OW anymore, I know it really doesn't help right now. If I can ignore this, I think I have a chance of following Plan A when he decides to come back.

I sure hope that he is not going to see OW (suitcase, coming back on Sunday).
Originally Posted by Gack1
Did you tell your brother WHY your husband is acting this way?
That he is fealing pitty for the woman that tried to destroy your marriage.

Yes, my brother knows everything. He and my H were very close and my brother is trying to help him to understand what he did, but you can only push a man so far at once... my brother told me to give him a little space because my H was NOT well the whole day, he was very depressed and my brother saw him crying many times. My brother thinks it will be good for both of us to stay 2-3 days apart and then, come together with a plan to save our M.

My brother also told me something that you have told me here many times already... it's like seeing an addict going through a serious withdraw, and that right now he needs help, not screams and fights. He is not defending my H in any shape or form, but maybe he's seeing something that I am not (yet).

Sigh... I'll try very hard to help him to get over this, I do want to have my H and M back, but I am sure you know better than me, IT IS NOT EASY.
Originally Posted by ImStaying
I sure hope that he is not going to see OW (suitcase, coming back on Sunday).

I doubt very much that he even knows she's not living here anymore. I do have my issues with my H behaviour, but I am quite confident that they were really NC... probably because SHE decided to go NC with him, but still...

He's staying with my brother this weekend. My brother will be able to talk and listen to him if he wants to, and I know my brother will do and say only what it's best for me and my M. I feel better now.
My sister went through almost the same thing this past fall. OW had told him the A was over after we confronted her but they were still texting. Then she did the FB exposure and the OW wouldn't talk to her WH anymore. He was very angry and told her he was "done" repeatedly. He came around. It took a few days.

You are getting great advice. Don't engage him in his fogbabble. I believe my sister was a broken record and said the things you have already been told such as "I did what I had to fight for our M" and "I have hope we can rebuild a better M"...other than that, try to keep your Plan A going, spend time with your son, take care of yourself, look good, make the home inviting, etc.

It will get better! smile {{Winter}}}
Originally Posted by winter1939
My H called me and told me he wants to come on Sunday. He asked me to not tell anything to my son yet, he wants to be present when we talk to him. I agreed to that.

winter, this is not a very good idea and let me explain why. First off, your son will see that his dad is gone and he deserves an explanation NOW, not at the leisure of a wayward. He does not deserve to be in a state of confusion about HIS OWN LIFE for 2 days in order to accommodate your wayward husbands temper tantrum.

Secondly, your H is so foggy that he can't be counted on to tell him the truth. Your H is not in touch with reality, so he can't very well be expected to tell the truth when he doesn't even comprehend TRUTH right now.

As a result, what your son will be subjected to is a spun, bullcrap story that you will be put in a position to correct, leading to a fight with you and your H. That is where your WAYWARD husband's plan is headed.

A self serving, fogged up wayward cannot be expected to tell the truth and do the right thing for your child, winter. That job falls to you.

The best thing for your son is for YOU ALONE to sit him down NOW and tell him the TRUTH, winter. Then when your H comes on Sunday, he can explain why he was willing to risk this child's family over an affair.

I would not make your son wait for 2 days to hear why his family appears to be crumbling. That is cruel and tehre is absolutely NO GOOD REASON to do that to him. He does not need to hear false explanations about the turmoil in his family. He needs the unvarnished TRUTH along wth your moral guidance.

Tell him the truth, winter. When you are finished, call your H and tell him you made a mistake when you told him you would wait because that is not fair to your boy. You have told him the truth about his fathers affair and you invite your WS to explain his affair to his son when he comes on Sunday.

The best interest of your child SUPERCEDES the desires of a self serving, selfish wayward who wants to whitewash his crime.
Mr Wondering's list of do's and don'ts helped me and also my sister in Plan A. Hope this helps...
Quote
Do's
1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
winter, this is not a very good idea and let me explain why. First off, your son will see that his dad is gone and he deserves an explanation NOW, not at the leisure of a wayward. He does not deserve to be in a state of confusion about HIS OWN LIFE for 2 days in order to accommodate your wayward husbands temper tantrum.

Secondly, your H is so foggy that he can't be counted on to tell him the truth. Your H is not in touch with reality, so he can't very well be expected to tell the truth when he doesn't even comprehend TRUTH right now.

As a result, what your son will be subjected to is a spun, bullcrap story that you will be put in a position to correct, leading to a fight with you and your H. That is where your WAYWARD husband's plan is headed.

A self serving, fogged up wayward cannot be expected to tell the truth and do the right thing for your child, winter. That job falls to you.

The best thing for your son is for YOU ALONE to sit him down NOW and tell him the TRUTH, winter. Then when your H comes on Sunday, he can explain why he was willing to risk this child's family over an affair.

I would not make your son wait for 2 days to hear why his family appears to be crumbling. That is cruel and tehre is absolutely NO GOOD REASON to do that to him. He does not need to hear false explanations about the turmoil in his family. He needs the unvarnished TRUTH along wth your moral guidance.

Tell him the truth, winter. When you are finished, call your H and tell him you made a mistake when you told him you would wait because that is not fair to your boy. You have told him the truth about his fathers affair and you invite your WS to explain his affair to his son when he comes on Sunday.

The best interest of your child SUPERCEDES the desires of a self serving, selfish wayward who wants to whitewash his crime.

I see your point... I will do that, thanks.
Remind me, WH and your brother work together?
Originally Posted by Gack1
Remind me, WH and your brother work together?

Yes, they do.
Originally Posted by winter1939
Yes, they do.
Who is hire up?
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