My wife and I are separated and we have been seeing each other throughout the separation until jan 2010. Throughout the separation we did not make progress because at the time we did not possess the skills on how to resolve our differences.
In January my wife started seeing another man and totally cut off all contact with me and then she filed for divorce. I decided I was not going to give up on our relationship and I began to read everything I could about how I could save our marriage. Finally about 3 weeks ago, I was able to get my wife to talk to me and I explained to her all of the things that I had done wrong in our marriage and that I was working to correct them. She saw an obvious change in me and this made her open to talking about reconciliation. She put the divorce on hold and we have been seeing each other pretty regularly for the last 3 weeks and getting along better than ever.
The only problem is she will not commit to me that she will cut off all contact with this other man. She says she is confused and doesn't know what she wants, and she keeps telling me not to pressure her. Based on the amount of time my wife and I see each other and the time we talk on the phone/email, I know she is only seeing this guy about every 2-3 weeks. Also based on things she had said to me, I know that this other man is not too interested in my wife. But it is obvious to me that my wife is interested in this other man and she is depressed because this other man will not give her the relationship that she wants.
My wife tells me that she loves me but she just needs time to think. My wife also tells me that she has not told this other man that she is seeing me and sleeping with me again.
I know who this other man is and my question is should I contact him and respectfully tell him that my wife and I are working on a reconciliation and ask him to cut off all contact with my wife? My concern if I did that is this other man would tell my wife that I contacted him and then my wife would be extremely upset with me for doing it and it could ruin all the progress we have made. So what do you think I should do about contacting this other man?
Contacting him is useless. Expose .
She is cake-eating which you should not allow her to do.
She needs "space." Space away from you to pursue her affair. Make her affair too much trouble.
Your marriage can survive her anger, but not her affair.
Contacting him is useless. Expose .
She is cake-eating which you should not allow her to do.
She needs "space." Space away from you to pursue her affair. Make her affair too much trouble.
Can you elaborate more on what you suggested. I really don't understand exactly what you are recommending that I do. Thank you.
Sorry. Expose to her family, anyone who can put pressure on her to stop her affair.
She will get VERY mad, but as I said...
Your marriage can survive her anger but not her affair.
Sorry. Expose to her family, anyone who can put pressure on her to stop her affair.
She will get VERY mad, but as I said...
Your marriage can survive her anger but not her affair.
Here's my reasoning for contacting the OM: My wife told me many times early on that this OM did not want to have a relationship with her until she gets a divorce. And at this time, my wife told me she wanted a divorce as soon as possible so she could have a relationship with this man. My wife would get very angry with me when the divorce hit spots where it was moving slowly. So I think if this OM knew the truth that my wife has now put the divorce on hold, that he would not want anything to do with my wife anymore. I also think this OM is not very interested in my wife anyway and if he knew the truth about my wife and I seeing each other again and the divorce being on hold, he would abandon seeing her completely. I have to figure out a way to make him aware of the truth without my wife finding out I told him.
You should not be worrying about your wife finding out.
Do they work together?
Is OM married?
tell us more about the situation...
How long married>
How long together?
How many kids?
Does her family know?
OM a co-worker?
OM an old boyfriend?
More information will help us help you
I have to figure out a way to make him aware of the truth without my wife finding out I told him.
Your kidding right?
This is your wife for goodness sakes and he is having sex with her.
Good lord - give him a call and tell him to go f off
Ok, you want one answer to one question in a complicated
situation that requires more than that one answer to one
question.
There is an education here if you are motivated to proceed.
Start with basic concepts and go from there. Spend a few
hours learning and then, with your new knowledge, you can
assess the responses you get and understand them.
The more you know, the more effective you can be at your
task of luring your wife back.
How many years married: It makes a difference.
How many kids: If any.
How old are you and how old is she.
All of those questions are relevant to the question you asked.
Larry
You should not be worrying about your wife finding out.
Do they work together?
Is OM married?
They do not work together and would not normally run into each other. OM is not married. He's a former polititian in Texas and is now a lobbyist. He is very wealthy and travels in the circles of all the powerful people/politicians in Texas. The money and the power is what is attracting my wife to him. I think he has plenty of women much younger than my wife chasing after him. My impression from what I know is the guy would probably bow out if he knew my wife and I were seeing each other again and that my wife put the divorce on hold. I honestly don't think he would want to get in the middle of my wife and I and get involved in that sort of drama.
He's a former polititian in Texas and is now a lobbyist. He is very wealthy and travels in the circles of all the powerful people/politicians in Texas.
I smell an opportunity for exposure - do you?
Larry - you know what I mean eh?
Tex - ran into something similar 4-5 yrs ago with my wife and her beau.
Ok, you want one answer to one question in a complicated
situation that requires more than that one answer to one
question.
There is an education here if you are motivated to proceed.
Start with basic concepts and go from there. Spend a few
hours learning and then, with your new knowledge, you can
assess the responses you get and understand them.
The more you know, the more effective you can be at your
task of luring your wife back.
How many years married: It makes a difference.
How many kids: If any.
How old are you and how old is she.
All of those questions are relevant to the question you asked.
Larry
My wife and I are in our early 50's an have been together for 8 years and married for 3 years. We both have children in their 20's from previous marriages.
I've read nearly every article on the Marriage Builders web page and I have also read "His Needs Her Needs". These lessons have been very helpful in helping me to get my wife interested in reconciling. The problem is my wife is too weak to overcome her addiction to this OM and take the steps needed to end that relationship. She is having a fantasy of living a life with the rich and powerful. She is hanging on to a dream that by some miracle the OM will decide he wants to be with my wife. This OM is not going to want to have a long term relationship with my wife. I think he's just calling her when he gets bored and has nothing else to do.
So I think if this OM knew the truth that my wife has now put the divorce on hold, that he would not want anything to do with my wife anymore. I also think this OM is not very interested in my wife anyway and if he knew the truth about my wife and I seeing each other again and the divorce being on hold, he would abandon seeing her completely.
Hi Texas. I agree with your reasoning. I suspect the OM would drop her like a hot potato if he knew the truth. However, your wife needs to know it was you who told him. Otherwise, you cannot take credit for it.
An important aspect of this you probably don�t get is comprehend is that your wife left you to pursue this affair. She STAGED it to make it look like she met the man afterwards. But women don�t leave to �get space� unless there is an affair. If you think back real hard, you will be able to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
How did you two meet? How did her last marriage [s] end? Did your relationship with her start as an affair?
I know who this other man is and my question is should I contact him and respectfully tell him that my wife and I are working on a reconciliation and ask him to cut off all contact with my wife? My concern if I did that is this other man would tell my wife that I contacted him and then my wife would be extremely upset with me for doing it and it could ruin all the progress we have made. So what do you think I should do about contacting this other man?
She will be upset with you for interfering with her affair � AT FIRST. But your marriage can survive her temporary anger, it can�t survive an ongoing affair. This would be the best thing you could do to save your marriage. Additionally, if you exposed the affair to both your families, it would destroy the fantasy, which would push her back towards you.
Remember, the goal here is to save your marriage, not to avoid your wife�s anger at all cost. Some men are so scared to make their wives angry that they forfeit their marriages because they are paralyzed with fear of her anger. You won�t make it if you allow fear to be your master.
The way to save a marriage from an affair is to cause as much conflict as possible in the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so exposing it is ruinous to the supporting fantasy. Most affairs quickly fall apart upon exposure.
By all means, call up the other man and do what Melody normally tells the BS to do...tell him that h3ll is coming if he doesn't stay away from your wife. With him being in political circles and all, I would imagine that he does NOT want a big scandal...especially if he is just toying with your wife.
At the same time, EXPOSE to your family, her family, your children, and any friends who might be supportive of your marriage.
DO NOT WARN HER that you are going to do this. Just sit down and get it done in one fell swoop.
Get Pariah over here.
A political man is well-connected and that can spell trouble for the unsuspecting BH.
Get Pariah over here.
A political man is well-connected and that can spell trouble for the unsuspecting BH.
What does "BH" mean? Battered husband?
Betrayed Husband
BS = Betrayed Spouse
Notes on Exposure:
--Exposure targets
Anyone with influence over your WS or the marriage. WS' parents, siblings, best friend, children if they're over 4. OP's siblings, parents, spouse. Your priest or similar if you're religious. Their employer if they work together. Work exposure should be done *in writing* to the head of HR, the CEO, and WS' boss. All of them should know the others were copied; this makes it harder for them to toss the letter into the trash and forget about it.
--Exposure message
Use a formal letter for work exposure. Everything else is short and sweet: "OP and WS are having an affair. I love WS and I am committed to doing whatever it takes to repair our marriage and make it better than ever. I'd appreciate any advice you might have." The exposure message is not vengeful; it is a message of love.
--No warning
Do NOT threaten to expose, do not tell her you're going to expose. Just do it. If she has advance warning, she will tell her friends and family "We are having trouble in our marriage. H is controlling and angry. He won't talk to me, he won't listen to me. He is possessive and jealous, and he accuses me of insane things. Sometimes I'm scared for my physical well-being, he's changed that much. Thank goodness I have friends to talk to, otherwise I don't think I could bear the abuse. OM has been especially helpful in offering insights into how a man would see things. I just hope we can make it but I'm not sure we can." How do you think your exposure is going to sound after an oscar winning performance like that?
--Exposure after-effects
Your WS is going to be furious. You will hear predictable things like "I can never trust you again. I was going to dump OP and reconcile but you've blown any chance of that. I hate you. I'm filing for D." Don't EVEN pay attention to this stuff. Your WS is just angry because the super-fun super-secret affair is suddenly looking downright tawdry and the fun is turning into a nightmare. Just ignore most of it. If your WS tries to talk about divorce, say "I don't do divorce, I do marriage." Then change the subject. If your WS tries to pick a fight, tell them you'd very much like to discuss things when you can both be calm and rational, and leave the room if you have to. If she says things like "How could you do this?!" tell her you'll do whatever it takes to save your marriage.
Hooeee. Tex, you've got a ripe situation for a good exposure, here. I doubt this guy will want the taint of affair-scandal to interfere with his political world. If he is that connected and has that much power in his world, your WS (wayward spouse) is not the only woman pursuing him. He doesn't need the potential scandal if he's got other pursuits who aren't married.
You say you've read the articles on this site. Have you read about exposure? That's your first order of business.
Do NOT tell your WS that you are going to expose, just DO it. Forewarning her will give her time to spin the story to the OM, that you're a liar and a crazy person who is just trying to make trouble for her. Many fearful BS's think (misguidedly) that warning their WS will force them to think logically. This does not work. WS's do not think logically.
Sure, it'll piss her off. So what? She'll get over it. And she'll be forced to get over the OM when he cuts ties with her. Mission accomplished, rebuilding your M can begin.
1. Do not warn anyone of what you are going to do.
2. Call om, he probably has a secretary that answerers the phone. The conversation should go like this.
Receptionist = Hello, you have reached the office of OM, How can I help you.
Tex77 = Hello, my name is Tex77, I am Mrs. Tex77's husband. I am calling to speak to OM regarding him ending his sexual relationship with my wife.
That should get the ball rolling.
3. Contact your wifes parent's, sisters, brothers, cousins, aunts, uncles, friends, and her kids tell them about the affair and ask them for there support in ending it so that you can save your marriage.
4. If you have not yet heard back from OM, call his office back and ask the secretary what news organization OM would pref ere you call about his relationship with your wife.
5. Call anyone that OM has contact with that you can. He is a lobiest, call whomever he lobbies for and tell them about your wifes affair with OM and ask them for help in stopping it.
Do these things ASAP
Do them in order, and do them all at once
Do not warn anyone
Do not wait between steps
Stop reading this, and go do these things NOW!!
Thanks for the input everyone. I just sent this email to the OM:
Mr. OM,
My name is Texas777. I am the husband of Mrs. Texas 777. As you know, my wife and I are separated. In the last few weeks my wife and I have been seeing each other regularly and working toward a marriage reconciliation. My wife has also notified her attorney to put our divorce proceeding on hold, and my wife has agreed to not put our marital home on the market for sale.
My wife has informed me that she was involved in a sexual relationship with you during our separation and that you are still in contact with her. My wife and I have made a lot of progress over the last few weeks, but your ongoing contact with my wife is causing a huge obstacle for our reconciliation progress. I am respectfully requesting that you immediately cut off ALL FORMS of contact with my wife even if my wife initiates the contact. I love my wife very much and I am committed to doing whatever I can to repair our marriage. From what I know about you, you seem to be a decent man. I'm sure you can understand my position and I hope that you will respect my request.
This is called 'partial exposure'. If OM isn't that interested in your W it may - may - prompt him to end the A.
In my sitch the OWH did a similar thing, and it only prompted my H and his AP (affair partner) to go underground. The A did not end until they were exposed to their employer.
Tex - this is a good start for exposure but is not enough. You should strongly consider a phone conversation with OM. I think it would be more effective verbally than in writing. Your WW should write an NC letter so that OM knows that SHE doesn't want contact with him. Otherwise, he will feel that you are preventing her from seeing him and they will together go further underground. The NC letter should be approved and mailed by her.
She may be mad for awhile but she will thank you later down the road when you two are enjoying the best M you could ever imagine. I am a FWW and I am overjoyed that my H exposed. We could have never had a chance at R if he hadn't. Also, the exposure will help her get over any withdrawal for OM more quickly.
Ooops!!! I reread my post after I replied and found a mistake.
The NC letter should be approved and mailed by YOU!!!!!!! (not her).
Sorry!
Thanks for the input everyone. I just sent this email to the OM:
Mr. OM,
My name is Texas777. I am the husband of Mrs. Texas 777. As you know, my wife and I are separated. In the last few weeks my wife and I have been seeing each other regularly and working toward a marriage reconciliation. My wife has also notified her attorney to put our divorce proceeding on hold, and my wife has agreed to not put our marital home on the market for sale.
My wife has informed me that she was involved in a sexual relationship with you during our separation and that you are still in contact with her. My wife and I have made a lot of progress over the last few weeks, but your ongoing contact with my wife is causing a huge obstacle for our reconciliation progress. I am respectfully requesting that you immediately cut off ALL FORMS of contact with my wife even if my wife initiates the contact. I love my wife very much and I am committed to doing whatever I can to repair our marriage. From what I know about you, you seem to be a decent man. I'm sure you can understand my position and I hope that you will respect my request.
Go back to the top of this page, read the directions, and follow them.
NOW!
Now the [censored] has hit the fan!!!!! The OM sent my email to my wife. My wife just called me VERY pissed off and VERY hysterical. She said basically that I have ruined her life and that she may have lost the OM for good because of what I did. She said that because of what I've done I have lost her forever and we are finished, and then she hung up on me.
Now the [censored] has hit the fan!!!!! The OM sent my email to my wife. My wife just called me VERY pissed off and VERY hysterical. She said basically that I have ruined her life and that she may have lost the OM for good because of what I did. She said that because of what I've done I have lost her forever and we are finished, and then she hung up on me.
Strait out of the Wayward Wife script!!
We told you this would happen.
This is a good thing.
It means Exposure is damaging her fantasy.
Go back to the top page and follow the directions.
Your partial exposure will fail and you are running out of time.
Your marriage will survive her anger, it will not survive an ongoing affair.
Take it from those of us who have had to do this, lived through it, and bought the T-Shirt.
Exposure works, it kills the affair, and the worse the exposure, the faster and more completely it works.
Now the [censored] has hit the fan!!!!! The OM sent my email to my wife. My wife just called me VERY pissed off and VERY hysterical. She said basically that I have ruined her life and that she may have lost the OM for good because of what I did. She said that because of what I've done I have lost her forever and we are finished, and then she hung up on me.
Excellent! Remember we warned you what she would say and do. Continue on with the exposure while you have the opportunity and BEFORE she gets a chance to spin it. Don't worry about her anger, it will subside. Eventually, if all goes well, she will THANK you for fighting for her.
Now the [censored] has hit the fan!!!!! The OM sent my email to my wife. My wife just called me VERY pissed off and VERY hysterical. She said basically that I have ruined her life and that she may have lost the OM for good because of what I did. She said that because of what I've done I have lost her forever and we are finished, and then she hung up on me.
What we said.
True to script. Now. You need to complete this exposure quickly. Your WW has been tipped to what you're doing and she'll be working hard to spin this. You MUST complete exposure - reread Gack's post to you about that and FOLLOW IT.
Or blow this opportunity to save your M. Your call.
Now the [censored] has hit the fan!!!!! The OM sent my email to my wife. My wife just called me VERY pissed off and VERY hysterical. She said basically that I have ruined her life and that she may have lost the OM for good because of what I did. She said that because of what I've done I have lost her forever and we are finished, and then she hung up on me.
Strait out of the Wayward Wife script!!
We told you this would happen.
This is a good thing.
It means Exposure is damaging her fantasy.
Go back to the top page and follow the directions.
Your partial exposure will fail and you are running out of time.
Your marriage will survive her anger, it will not survive an ongoing affair.
Take it from those of us who have had to do this, lived through it, and bought the T-Shirt.
Exposure works, it kills the affair, and the worse the exposure, the faster and more completely it works.
My wife doesn't have any family that would help me. My family is aware of the situation but they do not want to get involved, and they live many states away. And I will certainly not stoop to the level of vindictive behavior where I send emails to the OM's fellow workers. That's really low and would bring on swift reprisals from the OM who is a very powerful person. If the OM wanted to, he could probably have my life ruined with just one phone call.
So you'd rather let him boink your wife?? What are you afraid of?
And I will certainly not stoop to the level of vindictive behavior
No one has suggested you do anything vindictive.
Only what is necessary.
If the OM wanted to, he could probably have my life ruined with just one phone call.
Poppycock!
Right now OM is more afraid of you than you are of him.
And rightfully so.
My wife doesn't have any family that would help me.
That is not the point.
The point is to get the affair out into the light of day where it will wither and die.
Now that your wife knows you've exposed you better get on the stick and finish your exposure NOW before she has time to tell her version to friends and family.
"Texas777 is jealous and controlling. He won't just let me go. He hates it that I've found happiness. He's so vindictive... I can't believe I was ever married to him. I'm so glad we're separated and on our way to divorcing. I can't believe he'd stoop this low."
You'd best tell YOUR version of the story first.
"WW and I are in the process of attempting to reconcile. She has stalled the divorce proceedings and we have been rebuilding. Unfortunately she is still involved with OM (NAME HIM!!!) and obviously as long as that is the case, a full recovery is impossible. I'd appreciate your prayers and support of our marriage as we navigate these difficult waters."
Do. This. Now.
You're off to a good start. Finish the job.
I just got an email from my wife. Here it is:
I understand how you feel but I don't think you should have written anyone an email. This email just caused us to go backwards 100%. I have spoken to OM this morning about the email. Please do not send anymore emails to anyone I know. This will only back fire for you, it's not productive.
Ignore it. How does she know what's productive?
She's boinking some other guy.
She's the LAST person to know what is productive.
"This is not productive" = "I don't like the idea that I might lose my piece on the side, waaah waah wahhhh"
My wife doesn't have any family that would help me.
That is not the point.
The point is to get the affair out into the light of day where it will wither and die.
Now that your wife knows you've exposed you better get on the stick and finish your exposure NOW before she has time to tell her version to friends and family.
"Texas777 is jealous and controlling. He won't just let me go. He hates it that I've found happiness. He's so vindictive... I can't believe I was ever married to him. I'm so glad we're separated and on our way to divorcing. I can't believe he'd stoop this low."
You'd best tell YOUR version of the story first.
"WW and I are in the process of attempting to reconcile. She has stalled the divorce proceedings and we have been rebuilding. Unfortunately she is still involved with OM (NAME HIM!!!) and obviously as long as that is the case, a full recovery is impossible. I'd appreciate your prayers and support of our marriage as we navigate these difficult waters."
Do. This. Now.
You're off to a good start. Finish the job.
I have already told everyone that I can about what is going on.
I didn't ask a rhetorical question, Tex. I really want you to settle down for a minute and think. What are you afraid of?
Are you afraid OM will ruin your credit rating/community standing/good name/relations with employers,etc.? Are you afraid he'll send a goon to break your kneecaps? Look at each of these scenarios and truly pick them apart to determine their actual likelihood. I think you're too close to the sitch to see what we're seeing. What we're seeing is that you've just partially busted OM and your WW.
Here's what probably went down:
OM gets your email, says "Oh, shiite. I KNEW this broad was going to be a hassle! Damn, how will this affect my job?" He immediately forwards it to your WW with some cryptic note, words to the effect of "Just got this from your H. I thought you two were finished??"
Your WW immediately starts circling the wagons "We ARE finished! He's just a nut job trying to make my life hell!"
Now. What are you going to do? Let her leave the last word? Back this up! When he walks into his office it should be to a few snickers and a question or two "Um...OM...I didn't want to say anything, but I just got a phone call from a gentleman by the name of Texas777...it's a little sensitive..."
OM is going to feel your wrath! It will make the A not worth the effort! Holy mackeral - you could take this to the newspapers if he's that powerful! Imagine THAT exposure! And he may be worrying about that as we speak!
My wife doesn't have any family that would help me.
I have already told everyone that I can about what is going on.
Sorry, I got confused. You did tell your wife's parents and siblings, or not?
Also, do you have kids together? Did you tell the kids?
What about wife's best friend?
Pastor or priest?
Don't mean to badger you. It's just that exposure is very effective if done properly but loses its power if trickled out. You want to do this RIGHT, not easy.
We are rooting for you.
I just got an email from my wife. Here it is:
I understand how you feel but I don't think you should have written anyone an email. This email just caused us to go backwards 100%. I have spoken to OM this morning about the email. Please do not send anymore emails to anyone I know. This will only back fire for you, it's not productive.
Wayward babble. Ignore it. Tell her you will do whatever it takes to save your M. Sounds to me like the email was a direct hit. Ramp it up, Texas. Who can you expose this to? Think! Who is in a position to influence your WW?
That's who needs to know!
1. Do not warn anyone of what you are going to do.
2. Call om, he probably has a secretary that answerers the phone. The conversation should go like this.
Receptionist = Hello, you have reached the office of OM, How can I help you.
Tex77 = Hello, my name is Tex77, I am Mrs. Tex77's husband. I am calling to speak to OM regarding him ending his sexual relationship with my wife.
That should get the ball rolling.
3. Contact your wifes parent's, sisters, brothers, cousins, aunts, uncles, friends, and her kids tell them about the affair and ask them for there support in ending it so that you can save your marriage.
4. If you have not yet heard back from OM, call his office back and ask the secretary what news organization OM would pref ere you call about his relationship with your wife.
5. Call anyone that OM has contact with that you can. He is a lobiest, call whomever he lobbies for and tell them about your wifes affair with OM and ask them for help in stopping it.
Do these things ASAP
Do them in order, and do them all at once
Do not warn anyone
Do not wait between steps
Stop reading this, and go do these things NOW!!
See above.
Get on the phone!
Hold on a minute. You say the s#$% has hit the fan. No . . . what your WW needs to see is that the s$%^ would have only truly hit the fan if you two divorced and had to live a life without each other. If you have committed to the M and are following the Harley methods, she will look back on this day of exposure and say HALLELUJAH!! THANK YOU H!!! I think you are at a disadvantage that OM isn't married. An OMW is an excellent exposure target because OMW's typically guard their Wh's pretty closely and help to end the A. I don't always get on board with the public exposure method recommended on the forum. But, I think in your case it is your only hope (since there is no OMW and you have few family members).
But back on the aftermath of exposure . . . . the key is for your WW to see what a loser OM is, the fact that he was using her for sex, and how wonderful you are. It wouldn't hurt for you to explain to her (from a man's persepective) that he was using her for sex. Many times women don't want to believe that men are that way. She wants to envision the OM as some noble, loving man who sees her great qualities and "loves her for her." Do whatever it takes to show her that it is YOU who feels that way about her and that OM is treating her no differently than he would treat a prostitute (minus the pay).
I didn't ask a rhetorical question, Tex. I really want you to settle down for a minute and think. What are you afraid of?
Are you afraid OM will ruin your credit rating/community standing/good name/relations with employers,etc.? Are you afraid he'll send a goon to break your kneecaps? Look at each of these scenarios and truly pick them apart to determine their actual likelihood. I think you're too close to the sitch to see what we're seeing. What we're seeing is that you've just partially busted OM and your WW.
Here's what probably went down:
OM gets your email, says "Oh, shiite. I KNEW this broad was going to be a hassle! Damn, how will this affect my job?" He immediately forwards it to your WW with some cryptic note, words to the effect of "Just got this from your H. I thought you two were finished??"
Your WW immediately starts circling the wagons "We ARE finished! He's just a nut job trying to make my life hell!"
Now. What are you going to do? Let her leave the last word? Back this up! When he walks into his office it should be to a few snickers and a question or two "Um...OM...I didn't want to say anything, but I just got a phone call from a gentleman by the name of Texas777...it's a little sensitive..."
OM is going to feel your wrath! It will make the A not worth the effort! Holy mackeral - you could take this to the newspapers if he's that powerful! Imagine THAT exposure! And he may be worrying about that as we speak!
I am firm on my decision. Given the OM's limited interest in my wife, I think this guy is smart enough to realize that my wife is now not worth the trouble when there are plenty of younger single women out there without any baggage. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
You are willing to bet your marriage on this?
Tex777,
Here's another thing: WW needs to outline her EP's to establish NC. NC needs to be established which is started by exposure and then the sending of the NC letter. Then, WW needs to come up with the EP (extraordinary precautions) to make sure NC (no contact) is permanent. You might wonder, how am I going to get her to do this?? Here's my thought - read all of the MB material together. Show her how many M's have been going down the drain, then an A happens, the couple follows the MB principles and establishes a R plan, and bliss follows. Who doesn't choose bliss if given the opportunity?
Tex777,
Here's another thing: WW needs to outline her EP's to establish NC. NC needs to be established which is started by exposure and then the sending of the NC letter. Then, WW needs to come up with the EP (extraordinary precautions) to make sure NC (no contact) is permanent.
You are getting WAY ahead of the situation at hand.
She said basically that I have ruined her life and that she may have lost the OM for good because of what I did.
Boo effing hoo.
What she means is now I can't boink you both!
Tex,
Do you have access to your WW's email or cell records? I agree with ML and think this has been going on much longer than you think.
The reason I think it would be helpful for you to investigate this is because it seems as if you think OM was only going after your WW because he thought you were out of the picture. I don't think this is the case at all.
For all we know, OM and WW could have already been in a full blown PA weeks/months before she even moved out of the marital home and they could have already exchanged ILYs.
So to reiterate: I think you are going to get yourself into trouble with your line of thinking on OM bowing out/not being invested in your WW.
What we do know is he forwarded your WW your email and they have also talked this morning. My guess is they got their plan in place to keep you quiet with her threat and they're going to keep the A going.
Have you told us yet who you exposed to? Have you exposed this to all your children?
ps ~ another line of thinking/reasoning that is going to get you into trouble:
"My WW has put the D on hold and been spending time with me, it would be crazy for me to piss her off and rock the boat"
No, your WW is doing what is referred to as cake-eating. It means she is getting some emotional needs met by the OM and she is getting some met by you. Most cake-eaters will keep this up as long as they can.
So no, you never had hope of winning her back by not rocking the boat.
Don't rock the boat...Turn the damn thing upside down.
I'd give my right arm to call some politician with the ammo you've got!
I am firm on my decision. Given the OM's limited interest in my wife, I think this guy is smart enough to realize that my wife is now not worth the trouble when there are plenty of younger single women out there without any baggage. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.
How do you
know what his interest is? Based on what your WAYWARD wife told you?? Waywards are LIARS, Tex. They have to be in order to conduct affairs!
Limited time means nothing. There are affairs that drag on for years while the affair partners see each other a few times a month. Look at Tiger Woods! Look at Maurice Templ..er..what the heck's his name...Jackie O's affair partner! OM may feel that 2-3 times a month is perfect for him!
You are gambling on your WW's OM, sir. I hope that works out for you.
Are you 100% sure OM is not married?
Did you call OM's office yet?
Wife just called and said now she realizes I have not changed and that she can never trust me again. She said she talked to the OM and everything is fine. Then she went on a long angry rant about how wrong I was to send the OM the email, and that she and I are finished.
I just bascially said to her: "Why are you so angry? You said everything is fine with the OM and you have made the decision that we are through, so what are you mad about?"
She then said she is very mad at me for what I did and said many times for me not to email anyone else.
I'm just going to leave her alone. Maybe she'll calm down in a day or two.
Update: Just got another email from the wife:
"You really will never understand how you hurt me [referring to the email I sent to the OM]. You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."
Is there a single person who reads this (Other than TexAS777) who does not believe Tex should call OM asap?
Anyone?
We have seen this hundreds of times and lived through it.
Everything she is saying is from the Wayward wife script.
Call OM!!
This A is still hot & heavy and they DO NOT want your interference.
She is telling OM this: Don't worry, it's all under control. He will NOT contact you again.
I would march down to his office and have a face to face meeting with him. Maybe bring a brother or a friend with you. Tell him you won't back down until he ends this A. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT SHE IS TERRIFIED OF YOU DOING!
Email confrontation usually doesn't do much.
Have you exposed this to her children????
I am respectfully requesting that you immediately cut off ALL FORMS of contact with my wife even if my wife initiates the contact.
Why were you respectful?
And why did you request, instead of demand?
Your name is TEX. You are stronger than this. Don't make Texas look bad.
From what I know about you, you seem to be a decent man.
This is absolutely untrue:
* He's a politician
* He's a lobbyist
* He put his penis in your wife.
None of that sounds decent to me.
"You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."
Why would anyone want to collect flies?
Confront OM and make sure you expose this to the children and anyone else on the list above that you haven't told yet.
When she confronts you, calmly tell her, we can't fix our M until you end this A. Be a broken record and don't react to her anger.
Listen to me, the more angry she is = the more damage you are doing to the fantasy of the affair.
You want her to be angry! That means your plan is working!
She will calm down in a few days, they all do.
The worst thing you can do is not finish up the job now.
Tex, read this.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2337369&page=1Oh... and by the way. Just incase I have not mentioned it yet.
CALL OM NOW!!
Listen to me, the more angry she is = the more damage you are doing to the fantasy of the affair. You want her to be angry! That means your plan is working!
Tex, you are not getting it. Read the above quote again and again. THIS is what we are trying to tell you.
I grew up in Texas and frankly, you are going to have to man up and grow a pair if you want your wife back. Read the other threads here wherein a BH tried appeasement in hopes of winning his Wayward Wife back. It NEVER works.
Here's something you may not have thought of:
You know perfectly well that your wife is having sex with another man. And what effect does this have on you?
Nothing.
Oh, you're a little peeved, but that's about it. You ask your wife nicely to stop scr*wing other men and you ask the OM nicely to stop scr*wing your wife.
And when that doesn't work, you just slink away in silence.
Do you not understand the message you are sending to your WW??
You are telling her, "I don't care if you have sex with other men. I will not fight for you."
No woman wants a man like that.
Balls. Won't you?
Wife just called and said now she realizes I have not changed and that she can never trust me again. She said she talked to the OM and everything is fine. Then she went on a long angry rant about how wrong I was to send the OM the email, and that she and I are finished.
I just bascially said to her: "Why are you so angry? You said everything is fine with the OM and you have made the decision that we are through, so what are you mad about?"
She then said she is very mad at me for what I did and said many times for me not to email anyone else.
I'm just going to leave her alone. Maybe she'll calm down in a day or two.
Update: Just got another email from the wife:
"You really will never understand how you hurt me [referring to the email I sent to the OM]. You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."
Your wife is missing her honey and now she's pissed. BFD.
I thought men in Texas were supposed to have balls?
What do you think your wife thinks of a husband who meekly allows her to boff OM?
Ha! Looks like MaiMai and I were on the same wavelength this morning.
Tex777,
Here's another thing: WW needs to outline her EP's to establish NC. NC needs to be established which is started by exposure and then the sending of the NC letter. Then, WW needs to come up with the EP (extraordinary precautions) to make sure NC (no contact) is permanent. You might wonder, how am I going to get her to do this?? Here's my thought - read all of the MB material together. Show her how many M's have been going down the drain, then an A happens, the couple follows the MB principles and establishes a R plan, and bliss follows. Who doesn't choose bliss if given the opportunity?
u2,
I am of the opinion that right now it would be a very bad thing for Tex to try and "educate" his wife. That is a disrespectful judgment and would send his WW running for the hills. Waywards generally perceive their BS as controlling and manipulative anyway. An attempt by the BS to educate the WS only makes it worse.
I'm not saying your info is wrong, just that this is not the time. You're talking recovery and he's still trying to bust up the affair.
Waywards generally perceive their BS as controlling and manipulative anyway.
It's so true!! Thats what makes it so funny!!
Her family might not help you, but think of it this way. Her knowing that her family knows will help you. They don't have to put in 2 cents, but letting them know will ruin the affair.
The whole "You ruined everything!" BS has all been heard before. Yes you ruined her affair, you ruined her fantasy, you ruined her selfishness. She will try to shift the blame on you emphasizing that you are controlling. If so let her know that you were wrong and you are going to make an effort to stop making demands, or have angry outbursts.
Let her know that this is not controlling, and holding this type of secret is damaging to you. You are doing this for you, your emotional safety, and hopefully your marriage. She can continue the affair if she wants, you have no control over it. In the meantime you can continue to protect yourself from any type of emotional damage.
Above all stay calm, smile, and think in terms of protecting yourself. Not in terms of being vindictive to her. Let her know that if you were vindictive you could have told people that have no need to know.
edit: make demands -> stop making demands
My wife doesn't have any family that would help me.
Tell people regardless of whether they will help or not. The point is to get the affair to wither in the light of day.
Tell everybody, including the media.
And I will certainly not stoop to the level of vindictive behavior where I send emails to the OM's fellow workers.
There is nothing vindictive about wanting your wife for yourself. The purpose here is not to hurt anyone; it is to expose the affair to LIGHT so it will WITHER.
And you are saying this to dozens of people who have done exactly that. Many of them have saved their marriages from an affair.
Are you saying all of those people, who are trying to help you, are low?
Not a one of the people here who saved a marriage after an affair did it without taking this step they are recommending you take. Not a one.
and would bring on swift reprisals from the OM who is a very powerful person.
Shoot, I thought this was America. How did he get to be a feudal overlord?
If the OM wanted to, he could probably have my life ruined with just one phone call.
Bull. It's the other way around. It's you who threatens his life with one phone call.
Ask him if he would prefer you contact his local NBC, CBS, or ABC affiliate.
How much to rent a billboard in Texas?
I bet your lobbyist/politician/scumbag would love that.
Wife just called and said now she realizes I have not changed and that she can never trust me again. She said she talked to the OM and everything is fine. Then she went on a long angry rant about how wrong I was to send the OM the email, and that she and I are finished.
I just bascially said to her: "Why are you so angry? You said everything is fine with the OM and you have made the decision that we are through, so what are you mad about?"
Good answer!
"You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."
Why would anyone want to collect flies?
Vinegar kills mold DEAD.
Not a one of the people here who saved a marriage after an affair did it without taking this step they are recommending you take. Not a one.
Actually, that's not true. I didn't know about MB when H was having an A. I found MB after the affair was ended and exposure is only recommended if the affair is active.
In hindsight, I sorely wish I had known about exposure and exposed. It would have saved us a lot of trouble on down the line.
Wife just called and said now she realizes I have not changed and that she can never trust me again. She said she talked to the OM and everything is fine. Then she went on a long angry rant about how wrong I was to send the OM the email, and that she and I are finished.
I just bascially said to her: "Why are you so angry? You said everything is fine with the OM and you have made the decision that we are through, so what are you mad about?"
She then said she is very mad at me for what I did and said many times for me not to email anyone else.
I'm just going to leave her alone. Maybe she'll calm down in a day or two.
Update: Just got another email from the wife:
"You really will never understand how you hurt me [referring to the email I sent to the OM]. You get more flies with honey than you do with vinegar."
Okay, this is all good. She's wheedling you and trying to manipulate you so you'll stop your interference. These are positive signs that you are interfering in the A. Good. This is where you
want to be a troublemaker - make the A so much trouble that it's not worth continuing it! Now, think - how can you do that? By saying 'yes, dear' and sitting quietly with your hands folded? I don't think so, Tex!
It's by standing up to your WW and her a-hole OM and saying "Not while I have anything to say about it, you won't!"
I don't think you realize the power
you have over OM! Think, Tex!
Turtlehead,
You are right. I got the cart before the horse. I just wish Tex could see that max exposure would lead to something GREAT in the long run. Anyway, me getting the cart before the horse is another example of me being a newbie and the fact that I still have LOTS to learn from you guys.
Tex, PLEASE put politeness to the side and do what it takes to save your WW from this creep. Does she realize that she will be MISERABLE with him???? Continued exposure is the only way to put her fantasy world to the curb.
Another thing Tex . . . earlier in this post I mentioned that I still have a lot to learn from the folks on here. I am learning everyday. Guess what, they have not been wrong yet!!!!
This A is still hot & heavy and they DO NOT want your interference.
She is telling OM this: Don't worry, it's all under control. He will NOT contact you again.
I would march down to his office and have a face to face meeting with him. Maybe bring a brother or a friend with you. Tell him you won't back down until he ends this A. THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT SHE IS TERRIFIED OF YOU DOING!
Email confrontation usually doesn't do much.
Have you exposed this to her children????
I am not going to his office and have a face to face confrontation. All that would result from that is security would throw me out on my azz and I would then be faced with arrest and/or a restraining order against me. And I am not calling the OM because that would just lead to angry outbursts and nothing would get accomplished.
Basically I have accomplished what I wanted to accomplish. The OM now knows that my wife was deceiving him about seeing me again and working on our marriage. I think the OM is a pretty respectable/smart guy and he doesn't want to be associated with a woman in a nasty divorce or a woman that can't make up her mind about whether she wants to divorce her husband or not. I think the drama is going to be too much for him and he's gonna bow out. BTW, my wife has a ton of baggage with her already. Her 25 year old spoiled brat daughter and illegitimate 1.5 year old grandchild is living with my wife and my wife is supporting them all. My wife is having a financial crisis. My wife also is baby-sitting 5-7 days a week, 8-14 hours a day while her daughter is in school.
The daughter and the child did live with us when we were together and this is what destroyed our marriage. My wife is about to lose he mind after 1.5 years of being her daughters baby-sitting slave and doormat. My wife told me 2 weeks ago that she is near suicide and hates her daughter. I was very concerned so I arranged her to go to therapy and told her I would pay for it. My wife needs to learn the skills to solve her problems and set boundaries for her adult children. My wife is incapable of addressing any problem in her life, and therefore her problems never get solved and just compound. That is why she is so unhappy.
Now the [censored] has hit the fan!!!!! The OM sent my email to my wife. My wife just called me VERY pissed off and VERY hysterical. She said basically that I have ruined her life and that she may have lost the OM for good because of what I did. She said that because of what I've done I have lost her forever and we are finished, and then she hung up on me.
Good job!!!
You just ruined her affair. You just took the crack pipe away from the crack head. So, just relax and wait for her to calm down! If she calls back, tell her you are so sorry she is upset but you will do what it takes to fight for your marriage.
[quote=Texas777]
I am not going to his office and have a face to face confrontation. All that would result from that is security would throw me out on my azz and I would then be faced with arrest and/or a restraining order against me. And I am not calling the OM because that would just lead to angry outbursts and nothing would get accomplished.
Then go to his house. Or meet him outside his office. Unless there are No Trespassing signs posted and a locked gate that you would have to break into, I'm not seeing the problem. Just go in and introduce yourself to the receptionist and tell her you're there to see OM. She'll page him, and he'll more than likely refuse to see you, like the coward he certainly is. I don't think walking into a building is grounds for a restraining order. And OM more than likely isn't going to let this get that big. Calling him on the phone has limited potential. That one I know from my own sitch.
Basically I have accomplished what I wanted to accomplish. The OM now knows that my wife was deceiving him about seeing me again and working on our marriage.
Well, no. Probably not. Your WW will spin that.
I think the OM is a pretty respectable/smart guy
OM is a cheating SOB who is fine with boinking married women.
and he doesn't want to be associated with a woman in a nasty divorce or a woman that can't make up her mind about whether she wants to divorce her husband or not. I think the drama is going to be too much for him and he's gonna bow out. BTW, my wife has a ton of baggage with her already. Her 25 year old spoiled brat daughter and illegitimate 1.5 year old grandchild is living with my wife and my wife is supporting them all. My wife is having a financial crisis. My wife also is baby-sitting 5-7 days a week, 8-14 hours a day while her daughter is in school.
Boinking OM is her Calgon.
The daughter and the child did live with us when we were together and this is what destroyed our marriage.
I'm sure this stressed your M, but it didn't destroy it. Lack of care and protection between the two of you is what has damaged your M.
My wife is about to lose he mind after 1.5 years of being her daughters baby-sitting slave and doormat. My wife told me 2 weeks ago that she is near suicide and hates her daughter.
The stress of having an A has caused a lot of people to have suicidal thoughts. Keep that in mind.
I think the OM is a pretty respectable/smart guy . . .
He's been screwing YOUR WIFE!!! He's a POS scumbag. You need to understand that.
Tex, you might have already answered this, but are you certain the OM is not married? I wonder how his constituents would feel if they knew he was carrying on with a married woman? As a TEXAS VOTER, I question the character of any politician who would wreck the marriage of Texas citizens.
p.s. I think you did just great and I suspect you scared the hell out of the OM. I agree with you that it would not be a good idea to go to his office! He could have you arrested for harassment.
I do think it might be helpful to expose her to her family, though. I bet you big money this affair has been going on much longer than you suspect.
Does he has an "official" girlfriend? any facebook account?
I think the OM is a pretty respectable/smart guy and he doesn't want to be associated with a woman in a nasty divorce or a woman that can't make up her mind about whether she wants to divorce her husband or not. who likes to stick his penis in my wife.
I think the OM is a pretty respectable/smart guy . . .
He's been screwing YOUR WIFE!!! He's a POS scumbag. You need to understand that.
C'mon, Tex, you knocked me over with that comment. Any man that does a married woman and likely had every thing to do with your break up is not a "respectable, smart" guy. In many areas of Texas, the knowledge that someone in a position of power was boinking a married woman would ruin his career. [unless he is in Austin, and that might help his career]
Is this guy an elected official? I sure hope this is not my congressman, who is SINGLE.
[ [unless he is in Austin, and that might help his career]
I never liked Austin.
Tex, you might have already answered this, but are you certain the OM is not married? I wonder how his constituents would feel if they knew he was carrying on with a married woman? As a TEXAS VOTER, I question the character of any politician who would wreck the marriage of Texas citizens.
p.s. I think you did just great and I suspect you scared the hell out of the OM. I agree with you that it would not be a good idea to go to his office! He could have you arrested for harassment.
I do think it might be helpful to expose her to her family, though. I bet you big money this affair has been going on much longer than you suspect.
Does he has an "official" girlfriend? any facebook account?
The OM has a facebook account. It says "single - looking for a relationship/friendship". The OM has 4 teenage kids and is divorced. With his job, he travels 4 or 5 days a week. And on the weekends he spends the time with his kids. My wife is a low priority on his radar. I think he probably calls her or texts her every few days just to keep up the relationship so when he's got nothing better to do he can call my wife and go out to dinner.
I know I may be naive, but my wife claims they only slept together once. I'm not saying I believe her but based on what I've seen and what she has told me, and a few comments (during crying spells) she has made about her dissatisfaction with the OM relationship, I suspect the OM is not paying too much attention to my wife. Between my wife baby-sitting 5-7 days a week 8-14 hours a day, and the times of emails and phone conversations my wife and I have had, the time my wife and I have spent together, I know she has not seen this guy in at least three weeks. And the thing is, my wife is very open about the fact that she can do whatever she wants, and she is right. She is not trying to hide anything. She has told me point blank that she is not ready to commit to me that she will not see the guy anymore.
I found a few emails on my wife's computer the other day where they exchanged some conversation recently. There was nothing romantic about the conversations. It was basically small-talk chit-chat where they were asking each other about the family and the kids etc. ....
One thing you guys needs to understand about Texas law concerning adultery. The courts and the law could care less if a spouse is cheating before or after separation and during the divorce. Basically you are free to date as much as you want after separation begins and there is nothing the spouse of the cheater can do about it. If my wife wants to see someone else, there is nothing I can do to stop her and she will not experience any negativity from the divorce courts as a result of her cheating on me. My wife has convinced herself that she can do anything she wants as it pertains to dating and she is fully within her right to do that. My wife's friends also think this same way. Their image of marriage being sacred is sadly lacking.
I think the OM is a pretty respectable/smart guy . . .
He's been screwing YOUR WIFE!!! He's a POS scumbag. You need to understand that.
C'mon, Tex, you knocked me over with that comment. Any man that does a married woman and likely had every thing to do with your break up is not a "respectable, smart" guy. In many areas of Texas, the knowledge that someone in a position of power was boinking a married woman would ruin his career. [unless he is in Austin, and that might help his career]
Is this guy an elected official? I sure hope this is not my congressman, who is SINGLE.
I am 99% sure the OM did not break up marriage and that they met three months after the seperation. I know exactly when they met, because I could see a huge change in my wife's attitude toward me. I'm pretty sure someone set them up on a blind date during the x-mas holidays when I was out of town visiting my family.
I bet OM would look good on the stand if he was deposed as part of divorce proceedings. Just sayin'.
One thing you guys needs to understand about Texas law concerning adultery. The courts and the law could care less if a spouse is cheating before or after separation and during the divorce. Basically you are free to date as much as you want after separation begins and there is nothing the spouse of the cheater can do about it. If my wife wants to see someone else, there is nothing I can do to stop her and she will not experience any negativity from the divorce courts as a result of her cheating on me. My wife has convinced herself that she can do anything she wants as it pertains to dating and she is fully within her right to do that. My wife's friends also think this same way. Their image of marriage being sacred is sadly lacking.
Tex, this is not necessarily true. I've been in the legal field (in Texas) for many years, some of that in Family Law. While Texas IS a no-fault state, adultery IS still on the books. It CAN be used in a divorce case when it comes to the division of the property. Frankly, there are a LOT of Texans (including Family Law Judges) who still view adultery as WRONG.
In fact, OM can be named as a witness in a Texas divorce case to PROVE the adultery. Nothing like a high-profile person getting a subpoena to testify about their affair with one of the spouses in a divorce, where it can become public record for ANYONE who wants can look at the file. Trust me, I have FIRST HAND experience with this.
If your WW is living in an apartment with her 25yo DD and babysitting every day, who is paying for the apartment? You?
Stop paying for her to destroy your marriage! If the OM wants to keep her available to boink when he has nothing else better to do, let HIM pay for her apartment!
Make a list of all his Facebook friends and print it out. This is important so that you don't lose access to their names.
Then, look at each one of their profiles. Under their pictures on the left, it will say, "Send ___ a message." Send each and everyone a message saying, "OM is committing adultery with my wife (WW's name). I love my wife very much, and I would appreciate any help you can offer in getting OM to end this adulterous affair with her."
You can do this very quickly if you copy the message and then paste it on each message you send.
Tex, to your detriment, you are resisting the extremely good advice you are getting here.
Your best thinking has gotten you in this position to begin with.
Your WW coming home and having sex with you once in a while is nothing more than what she has to do to keep you giving her what she wants (money? SF when OM isn't available?). Your wife blowing up and becoming angry is a VERY GOOD THING! It means that you have made the OM very NERVOUS! Do NOT back off! Ramp up the pressure by EXPOSING!
When he dumps her for good, she will see that he was only using her.
[ She has told me point blank that she is not ready to commit to me that she will not see the guy anymore.
This is why you need to expose POS's A with YOUR wife. She is fence-sitting.
One thing you guys needs to understand about Texas law concerning adultery. The courts and the law could care less if a spouse is cheating before or after separation and during the divorce. Basically you are free to date as much as you want after separation begins and there is nothing the spouse of the cheater can do about it. If my wife wants to see someone else, there is nothing I can do to stop her and she will not experience any negativity from the divorce courts as a result of her cheating on me. My wife has convinced herself that she can do anything she wants as it pertains to dating and she is fully within her right to do that. My wife's friends also think this same way. Their image of marriage being sacred is sadly lacking.
Tex, this is not necessarily true. I've been in the legal field (in Texas) for many years, some of that in Family Law. While Texas IS a no-fault state, adultery IS still on the books. It CAN be used in a divorce case when it comes to the division of the property. Frankly, there are a LOT of Texans (including Family Law Judges) who still view adultery as WRONG.
Sorry I left this out: My wife and I have a pre-nup, so the property division will be strictly guided by the pre-nup. We're not fighting over property. We've already settled how the property will be divided. The last thing I want is to have a long drawn out court battle. Only the lawyers win in that situation.
Sorry I left this out: My wife and I have a pre-nup, so the property division will be strictly guided by the pre-nup. We're not fighting over property. We've already settled how the property will be divided. The last thing I want is to have a long drawn out court battle. Only the lawyers win in that situation. [/quote]
Whoa! Where did all this divorce talk suddenly come from? Do you want to save your M or not?? You should not be getting comfortable looking at a fall-back position right now.
Well then I guess you can just sit back and watch your marriage die the death of a thousand cuts OR you can continue on with exposure and watch the affair die. It doesn't stop there by the way, there is a PLAN to follow, but if you don't get the first part right, you may as well do nothing.
Your call. You seem resistant to the advice you're being given. Look, this advice isn't new. It's tried and PROVEN to be your BEST chance at recovering your marriage -- unless of course you're too afraid to take any further action.
Go ahead, believe that OM will back off if you sit and do nothing else, but I'll bet you $50 bucks that your way will get you nothing but divorced.
Whoa! Where did all this divorce talk suddenly come from? Do you want to save your M or not?? You should not be getting comfortable looking at a fall-back position right now.
His wife and he are already separated, she already filed for divorce, sounds like everything has been decided upon. Now they have spent a little time together recently, got along, and she asked her lawyer to hold off on the paperwork a little while. The divorce talk occurred long before Tex ever came here and started this thread.
If your WW is living in an apartment with her 25yo DD and babysitting every day, who is paying for the apartment? You?
Stop paying for her to destroy your marriage! If the OM wants to keep her available to boink when he has nothing else better to do, let HIM pay for her apartment!
Make a list of all his Facebook friends and print it out. This is important so that you don't lose access to their names.
Then, look at each one of their profiles. Under their pictures on the left, it will say, "Send ___ a message." Send each and everyone a message saying, "OM is committing adultery with my wife (WW's name). I love my wife very much, and I would appreciate any help you can offer in getting OM to end this adulterous affair with her."
You can do this very quickly if you copy the message and then paste it on each message you send.
Tex, to your detriment, you are resisting the extremely good advice you are getting here.
Your best thinking has gotten you in this position to begin with.
Your WW coming home and having sex with you once in a while is nothing more than what she has to do to keep you giving her what she wants (money? SF when OM isn't available?). Your wife blowing up and becoming angry is a VERY GOOD THING! It means that you have made the OM very NERVOUS! Do NOT back off! Ramp up the pressure by EXPOSING!
When he dumps her for good, she will see that he was only using her.
I am not giving my wife any money. My wife bought a house of her own last summer and moved out in Sept 2009. My wife has her own money that she gets from her first husband in their divorce agreement. My wife gets $106K a year from her first husband. That payment is finished in 5 years and my wife does not work nor has she ever worked. It's just not nearly enough to support her lifestyle and her daughter/grandchild. So my wife knows in 5 years, she is gonna be out of money and she is working it as best she can to sink her hooks into the OM so she can live a life of power and wealth and not worry about money. She is living in a fantasy. The chances of the OM marrying her is almost nothing. I love my wife very much, but she is a very screwed up person with alot of serious emotional issues. The OM will see through that pretty quickly if he spends alot of time with her and then he will want nothing more to do with her.
Just some additional info, I met my wife when she was married to her first husband and I was the other man. I am very ashamed of what I did and I know what I did as very wrong. After experiencing the pain of what my wife is doing now, I sent the first husband a letter of apology for all the pain and suffering that I caused him. Here is the email I sent him (names changed to protect the innocent):
Good morning Joe,
I know I'm probably the last person in the world that you would ever want to hear from, and I don't blame you at all for that. I have wanted to send you this email for many years. I want to tell you I am truly sorry for all the pain that I have caused you for the part I had in destroying your marriage by taking your wife away from you and all the damage that caused to your family. It was a terrible and totally wrong thing that I did to involve myself with Mrs Joe while you were married to her. For all these years, not a day has gone by that I didn't think about what I did and how it affected your life and all the pain you must have gone through for many years. I have no excuse for my actions and I will not try to place blame anywhere else. I was wrong and I deeply regret it. I can only account my actions to my own weakness that allowed temptation to take control of me which caused me to do what I knew to be wrong then and now. It was very selfish of me. I am fully aware that no words I can offer can make up for what I have done. Ronnie - I am truly sorry and I hope one day you can forgive me for what I did to you.
As a closing word, I want you to know I was very happy to hear last year that you remarried. It is my heartfelt hope you have found peace and happiness in your new life.
Well then I guess you can just sit back and watch your marriage die the death of a thousand cuts OR you can continue on with exposure and watch the affair die. It doesn't stop there by the way, there is a PLAN to follow, but if you don't get the first part right, you may as well do nothing.
Your call. You seem resistant to the advice you're being given. Look, this advice isn't new. It's tried and PROVEN to be your BEST chance at recovering your marriage -- unless of course you're too afraid to take any further action.
Go ahead, believe that OM will back off if you sit and do nothing else, but I'll bet you $50 bucks that your way will get you nothing but divorced.
The OM is an attorney. He can make my life a living hell with just a few minutes of his time and it won't cost him any attorney fees. Plus he worked for the Governor in a very high ranking position. He could pick up the phone and have the police raid my house and plant some drugs if he wanted to. You don't play around with people like this. Sadly this is the reality of the country we live in.
Regardless of how much I love my wife, I have to draw the line somewhere as to the extent of suffering and pain I am willing to endure to get her back. I live a pretty good life and outside of my marriage I really don't have any problems. I do not want to create more problems for myself other than what I am going through with my wife. I am not going to risk my longterm personal happiness and well being for the chance that maybe my wife will decide to come back to me. I am not willing to cross that line where I begin a mud slinging campaign against my wife's affair to anyone and everyone associated with my wife and the OM.
Just some additional info, I met my wife when she was married to her first husband and I was the other man.
**edit**
Karma
I do have that image every day and night. And it's horrible. Yes I am getting the revenge I deserve. I made a mistake and I was wrong, and I will have to live with that mistake for the rest of my life.
I do have that image every day and night. And it's horrible. Yes I am getting the revenge I deserve. I made a mistake and I was wrong, and I will have to live with that mistake for the rest of my life.
Right, you just made a mistake that's all. Just like the one your wife and her OM are making. It's just a mistake.
I made a mistake and let the kids waffles burn this morning. Just a mistake, same thing.
Good luck!
I think he probably calls her or texts her every few days just to keep up the relationship so when he's got nothing better to do he can call my wife and go out to dinner, and then screw her brains out.
I don't get it. You seem so relaxed about this.
Regardless of how much I love my wife, I have to draw the line somewhere as to the extent of suffering and pain I am willing to endure to get her back. I live a pretty good life and outside of my marriage I really don't have any problems. I do not want to create more problems for myself other than what I am going through with my wife. I am not going to risk my longterm personal happiness and well being for the chance that maybe my wife will decide to come back to me. I am not willing to cross that line where I begin a mud slinging campaign against my wife's affair to anyone and everyone associated with my wife and the OM.
So, she isn't worth it to you.
Well, you get what you pay for.
Just some additional info, I met my wife when she was married to her first husband and I was the other man.
Oh. Now I get it. Good luck with the D.
** Profane, inciting, unhelpful **
10 freaking pages to find out BS is an OM.
**edit**
I think he probably calls her or texts her every few days just to keep up the relationship so when he's got nothing better to do he can call my wife and go out to dinner, and then screw her brains out.
I don't get it. You seem so relaxed about this.
I am very realistic about what things I have an effect on and can change. At this point, there is nothing I can do to convince my wife to forget about her emotional attachment with the OM. She has a very primitive way of thinking and basically every important decision she makes is a reaction to whatever emotion she happens to be feeling at the moment. She has no skills to rationalize and use logic so she can make good decisions that affect her long term happiness. My wife will invent stories to support anything that she happens to want or need. For example, my wife keeps telling me that her relationship with the OM is not what I think because they only see each other every fews weeks and that they only slept together once, and she acts like her relationship with the OM should not bother me because of this. It's just crazy how she can rationalize things. She also told me the only reason she slept with the OM is because she was mad at me. It is absolutely futile to try to reason with her. She is the perpetual victim. Her life is a total mess because of this.
I convinced my wife to start therpy so she could learn the decision making skills she needs for long term happiness. My wife is starting therapy today and I told her I would pay for that. That's a good first step for her to get on the path to a happier life, but it's gonna be a long long road for her to learn the skills she needs to make good decisions in life.
Just some additional info, I met my wife when she was married to her first husband and I was the other man.
I hope you go to sleep tonight with mental movies of OM banging your wife and her loving it!
Karma
I do have that image every day and night. And it's horrible. Yes I am getting the revenge I deserve. I made a mistake and I was wrong, and I will have to live with that mistake for the rest of my life.
Maybe you can change that tonight and think about the BJ's instead?
This kind of talk is not productive at all. I realize many of you have alot of anger and resentment toward your spouse's lover, but I am not the source of your problems. So let's not turn this thread into a mud slinging event that provides no useful information for anyone.
You have a much bigger problem on your hands than OM. Here is what Dr. Harley says about affairages.
I've read through your original question and the responses you've received, and almost to a responder, they are warning you about what happens to relationship that originated as an affair. I have counseled hundreds of these couples and am presently counseling couples that married after an affair, and I can tell you from first-hand experience, and their own unsolicited comments, that if they had put the same effort into their marriages, they would be happily married to their original spouses today.
While it's true that there are happy marriages that start as affairs, they are in the minority. Only about 5% of all affairs end in marriage, and only about 1/3 of those marriages survive the first five years. You probably have one chance in 100 of turning this marriage into a successful relationship, and you're off to a terrible start in spite of your love and commitment.
I have a theory about why marriage after an affair is so unsuccessful, but the fact that they're unsuccessful is well documented. My main contention is that for whatever reasons, those who have affairs tend not to follow one of my cardinal principles for marriage: The Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). They tend to do what they please without considering each other's feelings. While that may not apply to both members of the relationship, it almost always applies to at least one of them. Your friend's affair with another man in the beginning your your relationship is evidence that she's not thinking about your interests.
I try very hard to keep these marriages together, in spite of the fact that there is such a low probability of success. If I thought I would fail, I wouldn't be wasting my time. And yet, I have had very little success. I keep thinking that I will eventually find a way to succeed.
There are so many obsticles to overcome. In addition to failure to follow the POJA, there is also a marked failure to follow the Policy of Radical Honesty. They tend to be incredibly dishonest, in spite of the fact that they start out thinking they can look right into each other's very souls.
But there is one other issue that is terribly relevant to your situation: Blended families. I read a research report recently that claimed that only 15% of all marriages with children from another relationship survive for 25 years (on average about 50% of all marriages survive for 25 years). Again, from my perspective, the culprit is failure to follow the POJA. Instead of making joint decisions regarding the children, unilateral decisions are made. This ultimately leads to fights and constant turmoil. After the children are grown, however, the conflict does not end. In many cases, advantages continue to be given to children by the natural parent at the expense of the step-parent.
I'm sure that your counselor has been encouraging your wife to negotiate with you so that you can reach a joint agreements regarding her children, but to no avail. And I've experienced the same thing. In spite of a blended family couple's willingness to follow the POJA when I talk to them, when it comes to a decision that will affect the welfare of their children, the commitment is broken.
The advice you have been receiving on the Forum focuses attention on your affair. I've written quite a bit on that topic, and many of the responders have read it. In general, I warn people to avoid an affair because if the very same problems you are facing. And if a vast amount of research and my own professional experience can be trusted, it happens to 99% of those who try to make an affair last.
While it's very unlikely that you will follow my advice because you're in love with "Jane," leaving this relationship, and restoring your relationship with your first wife is the wisest choice. But if you want to know how you can be the 1% that thrives in spite of the obsticles you face, my advice is that you both learn to follow the POJA with every decision you make, including those with the children. If those decisions are made with mutual care, you may be able to figure out how to make the rest of your relationship work.
Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
This kind of talk is not productive at all. I realize many of you have alot of anger and resentment toward your spouse's lover, but I am not the source of your problems. So let's not turn this thread into a mud slinging event that provides no useful information for anyone.
Don't make the mistake that I want to be 'productive' for you. That's plain silly.
I'm HAPPY you got what you dealt.
I am very realistic about what things I have an effect on and can change. At this point, there is nothing I can do to convince my wife to forget about her emotional attachment with the OM. She has a very primitive way of thinking and basically every important decision she makes is a reaction to whatever emotion she happens to be feeling at the moment. She has no skills to rationalize and use logic so she can make good decisions that affect her long term happiness. My wife will invent stories to support anything that she happens to want or need. For example, my wife keeps telling me that her relationship with the OM is not what I think because they only see each other every fews weeks and that they only slept together once, and she acts like her relationship with the OM should not bother me because of this. It's just crazy how she can rationalize things. She also told me the only reason she slept with the OM is because she was mad at me. It is absolutely futile to try to reason with her. She is the perpetual victim. Her life is a total mess because of this.
I'm not sure why you think this is different from the stories of the other folks here who survived an affair...
Ok Tex,
I will, for the moment, bypass the fact that you are in an affairriage.
More on that later.
Your wife has been "on her own" since last Sept, and she doesn't need your money to live on (at least for now). You're asking what you can do to get her back.
The basic rules for guys are simple: Don't act like a wimp. Don't beg. Don't look weak. Do the best that you can to meet her needs when she is around you.
But in your case, my guess is that she is basically the kind of woman who is a serial cheater who easily becomes bored with guys and wants to "feel sexy" with men. That's why she moves on to the next affair - because she needs the excitement of being in a secret and illicit relationship to feel wanted and needed, to feel sexy and fulfilled.
You did that when the two of you hooked up. There was a high level of romance when the two of you first met. Clandestine meetings, lots of romantic talk between the two of you, and close intimate conversations with secretive and furtive interactions. This created for her a heightened sense of importance and intimacy - which she craves. That shine faded after the affair came to light, the two of you were married, and time and real life wore it all down. So now she's on to the new affair.
It's a cycle she is unlikely to break - because she thrives on it.
You want advice to get her back? A reasonable person would tell you to follow MB, because you are here.
I'm usually fairly reasonable. BUT, in your case, you have a different kind of woman...don't you?
My advice will be a little different.
Be the other man - again.
Do the very same things you USED to do when you had an affair with her the first time around.
Those same things will work.
She thrives on drama.
Give it to her. Make her choose.
Only....my guess is....if this current OM has more money....you will lose.
Sorry.
SB
You were the Other Man?
Well no wonder she cheated.
You have no right to be upset that you got what you gave.
You have a much bigger problem on your hands than OM. Here is what Dr. Harley says about affairages.
I've read through your original question and the responses you've received, and almost to a responder, they are warning you about what happens to relationship that originated as an affair. I have counseled hundreds of these couples and am presently counseling couples that married after an affair, and I can tell you from first-hand experience, and their own unsolicited comments, that if they had put the same effort into their marriages, they would be happily married to their original spouses today.
While it's true that there are happy marriages that start as affairs, they are in the minority. Only about 5% of all affairs end in marriage, and only about 1/3 of those marriages survive the first five years. You probably have one chance in 100 of turning this marriage into a successful relationship, and you're off to a terrible start in spite of your love and commitment.
I have a theory about why marriage after an affair is so unsuccessful, but the fact that they're unsuccessful is well documented. My main contention is that for whatever reasons, those who have affairs tend not to follow one of my cardinal principles for marriage: The Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). They tend to do what they please without considering each other's feelings. While that may not apply to both members of the relationship, it almost always applies to at least one of them. Your friend's affair with another man in the beginning your your relationship is evidence that she's not thinking about your interests.
I try very hard to keep these marriages together, in spite of the fact that there is such a low probability of success. If I thought I would fail, I wouldn't be wasting my time. And yet, I have had very little success. I keep thinking that I will eventually find a way to succeed.
There are so many obsticles to overcome. In addition to failure to follow the POJA, there is also a marked failure to follow the Policy of Radical Honesty. They tend to be incredibly dishonest, in spite of the fact that they start out thinking they can look right into each other's very souls.
But there is one other issue that is terribly relevant to your situation: Blended families. I read a research report recently that claimed that only 15% of all marriages with children from another relationship survive for 25 years (on average about 50% of all marriages survive for 25 years). Again, from my perspective, the culprit is failure to follow the POJA. Instead of making joint decisions regarding the children, unilateral decisions are made. This ultimately leads to fights and constant turmoil. After the children are grown, however, the conflict does not end. In many cases, advantages continue to be given to children by the natural parent at the expense of the step-parent.
I'm sure that your counselor has been encouraging your wife to negotiate with you so that you can reach a joint agreements regarding her children, but to no avail. And I've experienced the same thing. In spite of a blended family couple's willingness to follow the POJA when I talk to them, when it comes to a decision that will affect the welfare of their children, the commitment is broken.
The advice you have been receiving on the Forum focuses attention on your affair. I've written quite a bit on that topic, and many of the responders have read it. In general, I warn people to avoid an affair because if the very same problems you are facing. And if a vast amount of research and my own professional experience can be trusted, it happens to 99% of those who try to make an affair last.
While it's very unlikely that you will follow my advice because you're in love with "Jane," leaving this relationship, and restoring your relationship with your first wife is the wisest choice. But if you want to know how you can be the 1% that thrives in spite of the obsticles you face, my advice is that you both learn to follow the POJA with every decision you make, including those with the children. If those decisions are made with mutual care, you may be able to figure out how to make the rest of your relationship work.
Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.
I know all of this already. All of the problems listed by Dr. Harley have plagued my current marriage. My wife has put her two adult daughters over me nearly 100% of the time. This has been a huge problem. My wife is also not an honest person, although she tells me she is very honest (I think she actually believes this). My wife constantly engages in lies, delusions, and distortion of facts to justify whatever goal she is trying to accomplish. For example, she claims the affair we had was all my fault and she claims she was not at fault at all. The reality is she told me she was getting a divorce the first day I met her, and then she vigorously pursued me and seduced me, and I resisted for a very long time until she wore me down and I allowed myself to fall into her trap. She actually cried hysterically begging me to sleep with her. That got me and I lost my self control.
After two months into the affair, I told her I did not want to see her anymore unless she got a divorce. I told her to only divorce if that is what SHE wanted and to not divorce her husband for me. Six months later I called her and she told me her divorce was almost final. One month later she was divorced and we started seeing each other again. But her version of the story is I am the one that destroyed her family and ruined her marriage. She cannot accept any responsibility for her actions.
As said earlier, my wife is a very screwed up person and I know I would be better off without her in my life. Being with her is non-stop drama, and I hate drama. But my wife has a extremely wonderful side to her and this is the person I fell in love with.
I made a mistake and I was wrong, and I will have to live with that mistake for the rest of my life.
That detail should have been revealed immediately.
You are just as deceptive today as you were when you were the OM.
Work on this. Your dishonesty.
You were the Other Man?
Well no wonder she cheated.
You have no right to be upset that you got what you gave.
I'm really not that upset anymore. I have suffered greatly for 3 months and I have reached the point now where I could not take the abuse and uncertainty anymore. I wanted to force an outcome today, and I think I got my desired result by sending the email to the OM.
So my wife now knows she needs to make a decision one way or the other. I am not putting up with this indecisiveness on her part anymore. I am at the point where I have made a decision that I need a 100% commitment from my wife that she wants to work on our marriage, or I need to start my healing now and work toward a fresh start. I can't live in limbo anymore.
You were the Other Man?
Well no wonder she cheated.
You have no right to be upset that you got what you gave.
I'm really not that upset anymore. I have suffered greatly for 3 months and I have reached the point now where I could not take the abuse and uncertainty anymore. I wanted to force an outcome today, and I think I got my desired result by sending the email to the OM.
So my wife now knows she needs to make a decision one way or the other. I am not putting up with this indecisiveness on her part anymore. I am at the point where I have made a decision that I need a 100% commitment from my wife that she wants to work on our marriage, or I need to start my healing now and work toward a fresh start. I can't live in limbo anymore.
Well, okay, then. You did what you wanted to do. How it plays out is not in your control. You really don't need our advice, and you've shown that you really have no interest in taking it. So...I won't give any to you, except to say: if she does possibly decide to return to you (doubtful, given the facts) you should read up on how to heal your M. It IS possible to have a good, healthy M that is an affairage, but you both will have a lot of work to do.
Good luck.
Well then I guess you can just sit back and watch your marriage die the death of a thousand cuts OR you can continue on with exposure and watch the affair die. It doesn't stop there by the way, there is a PLAN to follow, but if you don't get the first part right, you may as well do nothing.
Your call. You seem resistant to the advice you're being given. Look, this advice isn't new. It's tried and PROVEN to be your BEST chance at recovering your marriage -- unless of course you're too afraid to take any further action.
Go ahead, believe that OM will back off if you sit and do nothing else, but I'll bet you $50 bucks that your way will get you nothing but divorced.
The OM is an attorney. He can make my life a living hell with just a few minutes of his time and it won't cost him any attorney fees. Plus he worked for the Governor in a very high ranking position. He could pick up the phone and have the police raid my house and plant some drugs if he wanted to. You don't play around with people like this. Sadly this is the reality of the country we live in.
Regardless of how much I love my wife, I have to draw the line somewhere as to the extent of suffering and pain I am willing to endure to get her back. I live a pretty good life and outside of my marriage I really don't have any problems. I do not want to create more problems for myself other than what I am going through with my wife. I am not going to risk my longterm personal happiness and well being for the chance that maybe my wife will decide to come back to me. I am not willing to cross that line where I begin a mud slinging campaign against my wife's affair to anyone and everyone associated with my wife and the OM.
Hmm, well if that isn't a coincidence. My boss happens to run in that circle. In fact, he just returned from serving a stint working directly for the governor and they remain very good friends. Bet I know OM.
From what I know about you, you seem to be a decent man. I'm sure you can understand my position and I hope that you will respect my request.
Wimpy, wimpy, wimpy!
And now he's copied that to your WW.
If you wanted your WW to lose more respect for you, I think you may have achieved it.
If you want your WW to come back, you'll need to FIGHT for her, by doing a PROPER EXPOSURE, not wimping out like that, because it makes you look WEAK.
I made a mistake and I was wrong, and I will have to live with that mistake for the rest of my life.
That detail should have been revealed immediately.
You are just as deceptive today as you were when you were the OM.
Work on this. Your dishonesty.
We're having a discussion. All facts are never revealed in the opening statement. There was nothing intensionally deceptive about it. I am disclosing all of the facts as they are requested. Some of you guys are extremely critical and seem to enjoy pointing fingers of blame at any opportunity. Also some of you seem to enjoy the misfortune of others. This approach is not mature dialog.
There was nothing intensionally deceptive about it.
Also some of you seem to enjoy the misfortune of others.
Guilty!!
Not others, just you, an OM.
** deleted profanity **
Whew boy, if you sent that email to his work address (or even to his personal email that he checks at work), you can betcha it remains on the server. Hmmm, I know some people, that know some people... Nah, never mind. It's apparent that you're not for real anyway.
Whew boy, if you sent that email to his work address (or even to his personal email that he checks at work), you can betcha it remains on the server. Hmmm, I know some people, that know some people... Nah, never mind. It's apparent that you're not for real anyway.
I did send it to his work email.
I am not for real? What does that mean?
Hmm, well if that isn't a coincidence. My boss happens to run in that circle. In fact, he just returned from serving a stint working directly for the governor and they remain very good friends. Bet I know OM.
Never ceases to amaze me how awesome you are.
It's too bad your awesomeness was wasted here.
This approach is not mature dialog.
Whoa, there pardner. You came to a Marriage Builders board as a former Marriage Buster, omitted that little detail, asked for advice and then proceeded to insult all the fine folks trying to help you by basically telling them to take their advice and stuff it, and you're complaining about not having 'mature dialog'?
Thanks for the entertainment, but there are folks here who really do need/want help.
(Is there a full moon?)
I wondered when I saw the trip' 7s in the name.
Hmm, well if that isn't a coincidence. My boss happens to run in that circle. In fact, he just returned from serving a stint working directly for the governor and they remain very good friends. Bet I know OM.
Never ceases to amaze me how awesome you are.
It's too bad your awesomeness was wasted here.
Why thank you Ms. Pep! You're pretty awesome yourself.
(Back at cha)
This approach is not mature dialog.
These are the defects for marriages between the spouse and the OP.
1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a switch that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.
2) Guilt.. People who have wrecked a family have inflicted much pain, and they have a lot they could feel guilty about. As reality sets in, they see many things they were overlooking. They may have felt no guilt during the affair and divorce, and the guilt they feel after the romantic marriage may come as a suprise to both of them. It is generally assumed that people who dont permit themselves to be happy must be feeling guilty about somethingm and are unhappy as a way of punishing themselves for their misdeeds. One aspect of guilt is the rluctance to enjoy ones ill-gotten gains. Another aspect of guilt is the urge to return to the scene of the crime and in some way make amends. As a romantic newlywed resists the joys of the ex-mate who was deserted so blitheyly, the new mate can feel disoriented and betrayed.
3) Disparity of sacrifice... Divorces are expensive luxuries. Whatever the financial cost, the emotional cost is far greater. Anyone after losing that much, will be drained, exhausted and depressed. It is particularly difficult when the exhausted survivor of a debilitating divorce marries the triumphant winner of the struggle. If the romantic partner is marrying for the first time, and especially if the courtship has been treacherous and insecure, the new mate will be ecstatic. A new couple may feel a disparity in what had to be sacrificed to bring them together. The partner who has never been divorced may have difficulty understanding the complexity of emotions toward the previous family.
4) Expectations.. Then there is the feeling that anything that cost this much emotionally had damn well better be worth it. The greater the sacrifices, the greater the expectations from the new marriage. Now that the promised land has been reached, it should flow with milk and honey. But instead, the new couple are just 2 tired warriors with no fight left in them. Whatever these people were expecting, the best they are likey to find now is the ordinariness of real life, the dubious peace between glorious battles. The more people enjoy the battles involved in wrecking and escaping marriages, the less they are likely to enjoy the business as usual of the new marriage that was the destination of it all.
5) General Distrust of Marriage.. Of course, anyone who has been unhappily married is likely to develop a strong distrust of the institution of marriage. People whose marriages fell apart during affairs are likey to end up distrusting marriages rather than distrusting affaris. People who distrust marriage have a vey hard time being in one.
6) Distrust of affairee..It might seem appropriate for someone to go out with them, or even to marry them, but not quite appropriate for someone to have an affair with them. Affairs are considered dishonerable acts, and people who feel guilty for having affairs believe that they are dishonorable and their partner must be dishonorable too.
7) Divided Loyalties..During the affair tnd the divorce, the romantic couple isolate themselves. It is not only the betrayed spouses who are erased from awareness, but also the children, the families, friends, anyone who attempts to pull the romantic couple from the quicksand of their affair. But after the remarriage, there may be a longing to reestablish connections with families and friends and this may be more difficult than expected. Each close relationship and some that were amazingly casual may have to be renegotiated in view of the hurt caused to others.
8) The nature of infidels.... People who get themselves into affairs have some specific characteristics that must influence the course of their subsequent marriages. Each kind of infidel is different. Most of those who end up marrying an affair partner are romatics who drift hypnotically through this romantic high without taking much responsibility. Romantic remarriage seldom works, not only because of th unrealistic nature of romance, but also because of the reality-avoiding nature of romantics.
9)The nature of affairees.... Affairees want whatever they want from a relationship, jsut as everyone else does, but what makes them unusual is that they seek their goals among the married rather than the single. They choose partners who are not in position to marry them, and who are engaging in the relationship at great risk. People like this are clearly angry with marriage, and perhaps with the opposite sex. They believe marriage doesnt work, and they demonstrate that by breaking up another marriage as they find a partner for themselves.
10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have already demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.
11) Scapegoating of cuckolds... During the affair and divorce, the romantic couple conspired to convince each other that the defective marriage was the fault of the cuckold. To acknowledge otherwise, now that remarriage has taken place, seems a betrayal of the rescue fantasies that fed the romance.
12) Unshared history... Even if the new marriage survives all of these obstacles, there is one further characteristic of all second marriages: The absence of a shared history that brings familiarity torelationships that began earlier in life. If a romantic marriage has wrecked a previous marriage or two, the history of the relationship is painful to both partners, and possibly somewhat embarrasing to others. The new partners keep thinking about it and justifying it, but it is hard to talk about lightly, in the familiar, safe manner of people who can tell their old war stories without guilt. However intense their commitment, people who share a guilty past arent totally rpoud of their new marriage.
My previous post is intended for all the BETRAYED spouses reading along.
Do not despair.
A marriage built on other people's pain and suffering, is an ugly, ugly thing.
And, not worthy of our effort.
Texas777 can do whatever he wants.
Why care?
No reason I can think of.
Texas777, after all that you've said about your WW, and now what you've disclosed about how your M started...
Why on Earth do you want to remain M'd to that woman? Because it looks to me that you should be running away from her as fast as you can!
Texas777, after all that you've said about your WW, and now what you've disclosed about how your M started...
Why on Earth do you want to remain M'd to that woman? Because it looks to me that you should running away from her as fast as you can!
You're 100% right. All I can say is love makes people do stupid things.
All I can say is love makes people do stupid things.
10) Romance.. People who believe in the chemistry of romance dont bother to learn much about the physics of relationships. When the romance begins to fade, romantics know little about how to solve those problems that they have relied on romance to transcend. It is painful to watch a romantic relationship dissolve. It happens so suddenly, and so totally. These people have already demonstrated that they would rather get divorced than learn physics, so it is far easier for them to follow the same pattern.
My previous post is intended for all the BETRAYED spouses reading along.
Do not despair.
A marriage built on other people's pain and suffering, is an ugly, ugly thing.
I wondered when I saw the trip' 7s in the name.
Why? What does that mean?
Texas777, after all that you've said about your WW, and now what you've disclosed about how your M started...
Why on Earth do you want to remain M'd to that woman? Because it looks to me that you should running away from her as fast as you can!
You're 100% right. All I can say is love makes people do stupid things.
Well, perhaps it's time for you to do something smart. Walk away from that walking disaster area and never look back. And send a note to the OM saying that he can keep her
.
There's another semi-regular poster here who posts under many screennames and that is one of his MOs. I could be wrong and this could be legit but even so, now that his "truth" is revealed, it really doesn't matter to me.
Tex,
Seems to me you have but one choice here...and that is to change your life.
You are married to a WW...an unrepentant woman who refuses to see the hideous damage she does to so many in her life, her supposed loved ones.
And you were one of them...and you are her enabler to keep doing it.
Like paying for her counseling. Revoke that, 'k? That's not loving--it's enabling for her to continue to NOT take responsibility for her choices.
Her choices got her to where she is right now...wake up and see that real love isn't what you had with her...because you already knew she lied to others and to herself...and see where you bought her lies, 'k?
You don't have children with her...you don't have a real history--as you now know, an affair is an illusion, it's fantasy...so she really didn't love you, nor you, her. You were just lost in that "love does stupid things" belief system for a long time.
Your chance now, at your rock bottom, is to wake up from that illusion and really see how much you are drawn to rescue others, buy into their deceptions...you have a lot of false payoffs in you for doing this...and now, you can stop. Really stop.
When you choose to love your partner for who they are completely...not just parts and pieces...you will live and love in radical honesty. You will be able to follow the four rules of marriage without just doing one part, one piece.
This woman has a lot of personal growth to go through, Tex, and there is no reason to believe she will. Allow her what you already have...her own rock bottom. Get out of her way. If anything, write her an honest letter before you go dark that owns you were two people who didn't care you destroyed a marriage...and that yours wasn't real...you guys didn't know real selves because you weren't the other's real partner.
Then go dark and do not assist her in anyway. Finish the divorce. Clean your slate...work on yourself, grow more, know more, and know yourself more than you have...find all the lies you told yourself for years and years and end them.
When you do this, you won't be attracted to her dysfunction anymore...and moving on, over time, will be easier for you.
We do reap what we sow...only, it's designed that way for us to grow, 'k? To not learn is the greatest travesty. When you don't do that with every lesson, then you repeat them.
LA
Good morning Joe,
I know I'm probably the last person in the world that you would ever want to hear from, and I don't blame you at all for that. I have wanted to send you this email for many years. I want to tell you I am truly sorry for all the pain that I have caused you for the part I had in destroying your marriage by taking your wife away from you and all the damage that caused to your family. It was a terrible and totally wrong thing that I did to involve myself with Mrs Joe while you were married to her. For all these years, not a day has gone by that I didn't think about what I did and how it affected your life and all the pain you must have gone through for many years. I have no excuse for my actions and I will not try to place blame anywhere else. I was wrong and I deeply regret it. I can only account my actions to my own weakness that allowed temptation to take control of me which caused me to do what I knew to be wrong then and now. It was very selfish of me. I am fully aware that no words I can offer can make up for what I have done. Ronnie - I am truly sorry and I hope one day you can forgive me for what I did to you.
As a closing word, I want you to know I was very happy to hear last year that you remarried. It is my heartfelt hope you have found peace and happiness in your new life.
I would not appreciate getting a letter like this from Gollum some day. It would piss me off a lot. Then I would have to go back to cleaning the guns all the time again.
I would be okay with it however if he sent me his ears, nose, lips and teeth in a mason jar of formaldehyde. Now that I would proudly keep on the mantle.
by taking your wife away from you
You did not take his wife away. You're not that all powerful. She made the choice back then just like she is now.
I would be okay with it however if he sent me his ears, nose, lips and teeth in a mason jar of formaldehyde. Now that I would proudly keep on the mantle.
Oh, you're so immature.
You did not take his wife away. You're not that all powerful. She made the choice back then just like she is now.
Then I would have to go back to cleaning the guns all the time again.
What, did you sell the wood chipper?
Update: Wife just called (not upset)and reiterated several times that me sending emails is not helping me at all. She also said that she would never have anything to do with me again if my email to OM had made OM not want to see my wife anymore.
I said several times that I am fighting to keep her and that I value our marriage very much etc., and that is why I sent the email. She said she understands why I did it, but she said I made a huge mistake in thinking it would help our situation.
My wife then said she needs some space. I said that would probably be a good idea for both of us. I am going to try my best to cut off all contact with her and see if she contacts me. Is that the best approach?
quote]
by taking your wife away from you
You did not take his wife away. You're not that all powerful. She made the choice back then just like she is now.
[/quote]
It was a bad choice of words on my part. Don't read too deeply into it. Of course I realize that she and I were both responsible.
chrisner,
I couldn't agree more with you. When I saw that, I actually laughed. I can see the OM some day doing the same thing, when he finally gets what he did. The only thing positive in it all, would be to follow up on it from a freind of the poor BH and let him know OM is now experiencing a form of what he went through.
Texas,
OK. What a drama thread. First of all, just to put this out there, and let you understand my position without any real misunderstanding, nor am I attacking you. You are a liar. In the beginning of this thread you were point blank asked about your marriage....
How did you two meet? How did her last marriage [s] end? Did your relationship with her start as an affair?
You proceeded to choose to ignore this until much much later... Had you tabled this earlier, much drama would have been avoided. You KNEW this. That is why you chose to ignore it.
I am sorry you find yourself in this position. Do you deserve it? Who cares. All I can tell you, if you feel that you really want your wife back, you can do two things (of course there are more than two things) You can continue to do things your way [which has landed you being an adulter, divorced, remarried, having an adultress wife, once with you and now against you], or you can take the advice from SOME of the people on this board who have been around for a LONG time dealing with YOUR EXACT PROBLEM and helping many betrayed spouses find the way to gain the confidence in themselves to realize they don't really care what their spouse (who is having sex with an OP) says to them.
I wish I could make you understand, that during this time frame, while you are trying to save your marriage, you can not operate from the responses or emotions you evoke form your wife. They are irrelevant. There is a very good, clean cut playbook for saving your marriage. It may or may not work. What I can tell you is that it is quite successful, for original marriages. I'm not sure how effective it will work for your affair-marriage, but, I'd try it if I were honestly trying to save my marriage. What I wouldn't do, is try to pretend that I know more than people that have been dealing with this for 10+ years... just like I don't pick and choose parts of the Bible to believe, this program is quite similair.
I don't think your marraige can survive this personally. You both have laid the groundwork for this to fail going in, in so many different levels, that... if you asked me, I'd say you won't succeed. That isn't what I want, it's just my opinion. It's up to you to decide what you want, and to act appropriately, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR WIFE DOES OR SAYS. When/if she decides to come home and be faithful to you, then she gets to have a say in how you act/behave again.
-hang in there
chrisner,
I couldn't agree more with you. When I saw that, I actually laughed. I can see the OM some day doing the same thing, when he finally gets what he did. The only thing positive in it all, would be to follow up on it from a freind of the poor BH and let him know OM is now experiencing a form of what he went through.
Texas,
OK. What a drama thread. First of all, just to put this out there, and let you understand my position without any real misunderstanding, nor am I attacking you. You are a liar. In the beginning of this thread you were point blank asked about your marriage....
How did you two meet? How did her last marriage [s] end? Did your relationship with her start as an affair?
You proceeded to choose to ignore this until much much later... Had you tabled this earlier, much drama would have been avoided. You KNEW this. That is why you chose to ignore it.
I am sorry you find yourself in this position. Do you deserve it? Who cares. All I can tell you, if you feel that you really want your wife back, you can do two things (of course there are more than two things) You can continue to do things your way [which has landed you being an adulter, divorced, remarried, having an adultress wife, once with you and now against you], or you can take the advice from SOME of the people on this board who have been around for a LONG time dealing with YOUR EXACT PROBLEM and helping many betrayed spouses find the way to gain the confidence in themselves to realize they don't really care what their spouse (who is having sex with an OP) says to them.
I wish I could make you understand, that during this time frame, while you are trying to save your marriage, you can not operate from the responses or emotions you evoke form your wife. They are irrelevant. There is a very good, clean cut playbook for saving your marriage. It may or may not work. What I can tell you is that it is quite successful, for original marriages. I'm not sure how effective it will work for your affair-marriage, but, I'd try it if I were honestly trying to save my marriage. What I wouldn't do, is try to pretend that I know more than people that have been dealing with this for 10+ years... just like I don't pick and choose parts of the Bible to believe, this program is quite similair.
I don't think your marraige can survive this personally. You both have laid the groundwork for this to fail going in, in so many different levels, that... if you asked me, I'd say you won't succeed. That isn't what I want, it's just my opinion. It's up to you to decide what you want, and to act appropriately, REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOUR WIFE DOES OR SAYS. When/if she decides to come home and be faithful to you, then she gets to have a say in how you act/behave again.
-hang in there
I think you've given some very good advice. Thank you.
Here's one point I haven't touched on about my wife. My wife is a very irrational and easily angered person, that when angered becomes a very vindictive person. You take this kind of person and put a vicious female divorce lawyer at their disposal, the combination of the two results in extreme discomfort and expense for me. So I have to walk a fine line to keep her somewhat calm so she won't fly off the handle and put her attorney into attack mode against me. For example: today she threatened to have her attorney file a restraining order against me for the email I sent to the OM.
Don't I love it when they blow it wide open like this?
SB I know all of this already. All of the problems listed by Dr. Harley have plagued my current marriage.
So, why are you surprised to find yourself in this situation? And furthermore, why are you surprised by the angry responses of the betrayed spouses on the boards? My wife has put her two adult daughters over me nearly 100% of the time.
Beeecausssse, silly - she has ALWAYS put herself and her needs over everyone else's. But you KNEW THAT GOING IN. Didn't you? Think back now - don't these words ring a bell with you: "I need to make myself happy. I can't live any longer in a marriage that doesn't make ME happy...I have to live to make MYSELF happy, and the marriage I'm in doesn't do that anymore..." or something along those lines? Didn't she say those words to YOU when you and she were in your affair? Because she hasn't changed, Tex. You got exactly what you expected. SELFISHNESS is what you were getting back then, and YOU GOT IT. Why are you surprised now? This has been a huge problem.
It wasn't when it served YOUR NEEDS. Only now, it's different. It began to interfere with YOUR NEEDS. Your own selfish desires are only overshadowed by HERS. Really consider this in your behavior over time - including what you did to her previous husband. Because to overlook this is to drag this terrible shame into your NEXT relationship. Don't. My wife is also not an honest person, although she tells me she is very honest (I think she actually believes this).
As her partner in crime, how could you possibly have believed that she was honest? Really? You actively participated with her in deceict and lies against her previous husband. Now, you stand pointing a finger at her for "dishonesty"? I am sitting here just laughing at you, because you do not even see this on your own screen. Re-read this until it hits you as blatantly as it hit me, Tex. Seriously. It HAS to hit you HARD, because YOU are as dishonest as she. My wife constantly engages in lies, delusions, and distortion of facts to justify whatever goal she is trying to accomplish. For example, she claims the affair we had was all my fault and she claims she was not at fault at all.
Now, here, she has to take her blame. You have your point, Tex. She is 100% at fault in her marriage for having her affair. YOU, however, also have your part in the blame, because YOU KNEW she was married. You had no honor. You held to a selfishness that drove you to an immoral act. You wanted what you wanted, and did not care about anything beyond your own desires. Period. The reality is she told me she was getting a divorce the first day I met her, and then she vigorously pursued me and seduced me, and I resisted for a very long time until she wore me down and I allowed myself to fall into her trap. She actually cried hysterically begging me to sleep with her. That got me and I lost my self control.
Ah, were this to be true. She threw herself at you, wore you down, and you finally gave in and had sex with her to shut her up. How gallant of you. This sounds absolutely stupid. After two months into the affair, I told her I did not want to see her anymore unless she got a divorce.
Wait, if she "wore you down", what happened to that? All of a sudden you now know she isn't getting a divorce? Your honor just went out the window, Tex. YOU did have a choice. It's called "walking away". You had a choice in this. You did NOT fall on your sword by sleeping with her. You committed an immoral act. Get that straight. I told her to only divorce if that is what SHE wanted and to not divorce her husband for me. Six months later I called her and she told me her divorce was almost final. One month later she was divorced and we started seeing each other again. But her version of the story is I am the one that destroyed her family and ruined her marriage. She cannot accept any responsibility for her actions.
So IF this is true, then, why would you feel guilty? Because you know that your affair is the reason she left her husband, there is more to the story, and that the two of you continued to be emotionally connected during this entire time, Tex. You and she had an affair, she left her husband for you, and that is the "story". Why color it any other way? These "details" are unimportant. There is no justification, no detail, that makes this story so unique and special that makes it "okay" to do what you did. It was wrong. It was immoral. It was a hideous disrespect of a marriage that you participated actively in, and now you are reaping the results of that. Now you see and understand what happens in these types of relationships, and you HATE IT.
That's how this works. It is terrible. It is difficult. It is also real and it is what you have to deal with.
Put on your big boy britches and face the cards that are on the table. You married a woman who is willing to have an affair, and now she is doing it again. As said earlier, my wife is a very screwed up person and I know I would be better off without her in my life. Being with her is non-stop drama
Gee, did I have her pegged in my previous post, or what??? , and I hate drama. But my wife has a extremely wonderful side to her and this is the person I fell in love with.
Tex, you have a mess on your hands. IF you want to save this marriage, and I would have to say WHY?????, but IF you do, you will have to out-drama and out-romance the lawyer.
Period.
Only.....if you don't have the bucks in your bank acct, I still say you will lose out. Why? Your wife is as you describe her
dishonest
and she is also as I describe her
selfish
and that combination will result in a person who will go where she thinks the grass is greenest
FOR HER.
And nowhere else.
SB
Here's one point I haven't touched on about my wife. My wife is a very irrational and easily angered person, that when angered becomes a very vindictive person.
1) The intervention of Reality: Divorce in these marriages tends to take place very early in the marriage. During th affair, the infidel and perhaps the affairee are in a state of intensely stimulating unreality. The second marriage itself seems to be a switch that throws the lights on and illuminates the mess that has accumulated. It is as if the romance had seemed real, while the divorce didnt. Only after the remarriage did the divorce become real enough for the lovers to see that it was all a horrible mistake. The affairs that become marriages typically were so intense they were never questioned at all. During the divorce, reality never set in sufficiently to let the romance be evaluated and questioned. The romance was so romantic on one ever got around to asking if it was sane.
The BS who might be worried their adulterous wayward might marry their adultery partner.
Adultery/affairs are ugly.
Ugly begets ugly.
Do not worry, Betrayed Spouses. Their ugly adultery-marriage is not your concern.
Put on your big boy britches and face the cards that are on the table. You married a woman who is willing to have an affair, and now she is doing it again.
Hi Texas. I agree with your reasoning. I suspect the OM would drop her like a hot potato if he knew the truth. However, your wife needs to know it was you who told him. Otherwise, you cannot take credit for it.
An important aspect of this you probably don�t get is comprehend is that your wife left you to pursue this affair. She STAGED it to make it look like she met the man afterwards. But women don�t leave to �get space� unless there is an affair. If you think back real hard, you will be able to put the pieces of the puzzle together.
How did you two meet? How did her last marriage [s] end? Did your relationship with her start as an affair?
I had a feeling about this which is why I asked this question yesterday in my
first post to you. You never answered. That is something that is very important to me because I choose not to help affair situations. I don't help those who signed on for it. IMO, they need to just accept the consequences of their actions. If you chose to marry a cheater, then you can't very well object when she cheats. I consider that a matter of personal accountability, not one of infidelity.
My one and only post to this thread is simple:
If they will cheat with you, they will cheat on you. Howls of outrage doesn't change that simple fact of life, love and the pursuit of unhappiness.
Larry
This thread has been great for the entertainment value, but I think it's time to stick a fork in it. Maybe one of the networks will turn this guy's story into a mini-series.
I wondered why he was so calm about this
This thread has been great for the entertainment value, but I think it's time to stick a fork in it. Maybe one of the networks will turn this guy's story into a mini-series.
Yeah. And you know, right at first he really seemed like he wanted to do whatever it took to save his M. Ya just can't tell with some people...
Yeah. And you know, right at first he really seemed like he wanted to do whatever it took to save his M. Ya just can't tell with some people...
He doesn't have a M. He has an affairage. You know, when two rutting pigs try to do what humans do!
Then I would have to go back to cleaning the guns all the time again.
What, did you sell the wood chipper?
Nah. The woodchipper is for cleanup work. You know, like getting rid of unwanted limbs and such.
But formaldehyde jars of Gollum bits and pieces parts aside, it has been a while since I have been to the range and shot the crotch out of a silhouette �OM� target with the .45. Can�t put a price tag on a good time!
This guy is another sucker in the line of suckers his, "ahem", wife is playing with.
SB gave him a gift by the reply they gave him.
Wonder what is stronger. His desire to learn or his desire to believe he is Gods gift to women?
Tex yur belief that you are special and can save the wanting wild women of the world is comical. I hope you can grow up enough someday to laugh at yourself.