WH left for deployment this past weekend. Within a couple of days of him leaving I discovered his affair. In his cover up story he said he was going to one state and but really met up with his OW. I found out her name, found her myspace page and face book. All private

Everything that I didn�t want to believe to be true was true. And I found it by snooping.

First thing I did was go to the chaplain and discussed my options. He recommended for me not to go to the command as did my counselor. I know Exposure is key the reason being is that me and my kids will lose out on the pay for at least a month or 2. We are not prepared financially to miss out on that even for a month, however if later down the year the A continues then that is a step I am prepared to take. I KNOW that is the best way to stop this A from continuing but the truth is if I do go to chain of command me and my kids will be the ones hurting in the end, not only emotionally but financially. I will give it a couple of months then to build up a cushion and figure out exactly what I want to do here.

My biggest exposure then would be to his parents. They are both disappointed but they really have no say in his life sad to say, my WH didn�t listen to them last time he pulled something like this. He even punished them for taking my side, and didn�t call them at all for 6 months or so. I know they were very hurt by this, and I know they are trying not to do that again.

I can�t expose to anyone in her family because her profiles are private. I am able to view her friends on her FB page but am I supposed to just personally email each of her over 100 friends? I mean how do I know who would be the ones that are important that would mean anything to her.

Also I do know she is married from what my WH has told me before, to another soldier. My chaplain took my information on what I think his name would be taken from the first name he gave me and her last name. He wanted to be sure they aren�t at the same place. I do know that her H is also deployed and that�s why the chaplain is taking that additional measure, and wanted to give them a heads up. I know I can't take meds just yet. I know I have to start setting aside some money just in case but what can i do NOW to start the process on saving my marriage?

At my chaplain and counselor�s suggestion I was to email that I do know, so that I can edit my feelings after I wrote them all down but before I got home he called. I asked him to read the email I need to send him and he said he couldn�t and threatened to never call me back if I don�t tell him. He made that same threat at least 3 times in our conversation. So I told him point blank this is what I know and listed everything I found. He wanted to know how I found out and I shouldn�t have told him how I did but I said I found the receipts. He verified everything is true. I kept repeating that I am prepared to do the necessary steps to repair this marriage. He took it as a threat that I would go to his command and make a fool out of myself so he threaten that he would just go tell them everything himself and I get to lose out on the money. I told him I understand the consequences but I am prepared to do what I have to do to save this marriage and he said he is going to do what he has to do to not. Last thing I heard him say was he is going to call me back in a year. I hung up on him then.

We did have more to the conversation that I�m sure did not help the situation any. He told me if I email anybody he would not call me in a year (same threat) not really sure who he meant by emailing I guess his friends. I suppose I can do expose that way. I was thinking of posting it on my FB wall what is going on but I am not sure if I want my entire family to know my business, the ones that don�t even know him so don�t have a say.

We do have like 9 mutual friends on there I can expose to but none of them are really that close to him to make a difference. He took the option for anyone to write on his wall apparently, so I can�t do that route. My chaplain says to be careful who I expose it to because it could backfire - they could just go straight to his command to start the investigation and I�d rather be in control of that.

So right now here�s my situation. I�m pregnant with our 4th. He just deployed. While it is possible for me to do a little bit of Plan A it is nearly impossible with his EA still going on. Should I continue to plan B then? I know this sounds really bad but I want to limit his contact with my kids, as in I don�t want him to talk to them right now. I do plan on having them send stuff in the mail but phone calls I�m not ready to let them do that especially since I�m still in shock. I want to save our marriage he does not.

I got the book"Surviving an affair" from my chaplain today. I already read Love busters, his needs her needs. Still need to read the one I got today and fall in love, stay in love.


What is my next course of action? Right now my counselor advised me to wait a couple of days to figureo out what I want to do. If he calls don't answer. Give it until Monday. Focus on being a whole mom for my 3 kids. Focus on NOT going into preterm labor. Talk to ACS, Legal and get educated on the divorce procedures, what I'm entitled to (I am not ready to do this but I know I will have to) and also get in contact with my Dr to let them know I may be a candidate for Post partum depression. I actually feel it starting to come on now.

Smiley,

I would talk to Legal right away. You need to get your financial situation squared away. Your very WH is trying to control your every move by threatening you that he won't call you for a year if you expose his A. He wants to continue doing what he is doing and he doesn't want YOU to mess it up. Your fear of financial difficulty is preventing you from establishing your boundaries. So he has done this before?

Why do you want to stay with this man?

I am so sorry this is happening to you. Dealing with discovery of an A during a deployment is tough and being pregnant makes it doubly tough.


Take a look at Armywifie's thread. She has been one strong woman and faced some of the same financial issues.

You do know it is likely this was more than an EA. I am so, so sorry.

My best wishes to you.

AM

I do know this is was a PA I meant to say while he is deployed it will be an EA.

He has gaslighted me before and I believed him. This is cold concrete proof.

I think I need to wait a bit before I make any rash decisions like going to command. I don't want to start a process I will regret later. Isn't that a wiser choice for me to do instead of acting based on emotions?

I do have some emergency money set aside in the bank that I only have access to. If i do have to take the hit I do have that to fall back on for a little while but not for long.

Smiley, do you know for a fact that the military will dock his pay if you expose his A?

According to the chaplain I talked to his rank would go down by 1 or 2 which is a decrease in salary, and as punishment his pay would be cut in half by for 2 months. This is by command discretion however. Could be more or less.

Wow, you get punished for HIS actions still.

Why don't they just lock your husband and her husband in a room together and let them have a man to man discussion.

I like Pariah's idea.

I am so sorry you are here, and I know you must feel helpless. I think you are wise to think things through for a couple of days. And make sure you take care of yourself too. Do you have people there to support you and help out when your baby comes?

I have come to the conclusion that I will go down their facebook friends list and expose. Think that this is too much? I am about to start with his but again maybe I should wait a couple of days...be sure I know what the consequences are.

His parents are set up to come end of April,and my MIL will stay for a period of 2-3 weeks. I am trying to find some back up sitters. Most likely will be experiencing this birth alone if I do not find a free doula in time (military offers free doula services for those whose spouses are deployed at time of birth)

What did he do last time?

Have you considered contacting OW husband?

smileygurl, I am so sorry for your situation. But am relieved you found out the truth. Instead of worrying about this, I would worry about more about DIVORCE. On your current path you are headed for divorce. Ask yourself how much you will get when he divorces you?

Because unless you do everything in your power to bust up this affair, that is exactly where you are headed. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping his secret from his commander - which is the MOST IMPACTFUL exposure you can do - is to ENABLE the affair. If the commander knew of the affair, he could take action to end it.

smileygurl, I realize you have some serious problems here but keeping it secret will make the problem WORSE. Your BEST CHANCE at saving your marriage is to bust up this affair. And hon, you need to do this very soon and do it very strategically so you will be killing the affair with an UZI. Anything less will be just enough to tick enough your husband and push him closer to his OW. The longer the affair goes on, the closer he gets to the OW and the more likely he will get her pregnant.

The way to recover your marriage is to do an exposure that is powerful enough to kill the affair. Anything less will just piss off your H and push him away more. Do this right, smilygurl. We have had numerous army wives and husbands whose spouses affairs were KILLED DEAD by their commander. The COMMANDER is the key, sg. Start there and the hit the families, close friends and OW's facebook and her parents.

You don't have the luxury of doing this half way, my friend.

\
Ok, the affair WILL CONTINUE if you don't tell the commander. Take that to the bank right now. There will be NOTHING STOPPING THE AFFAIR OTHERWISE. Nothing. If you are not prepared financially to go a month without pay [which I seriously doubt the commander will do because you have all those kids and are pregnant!] then you need to get the money from all your parents, because you have a mrriage to save. You have KIDS to take care of and don't have the luxury to take half measures. Half measures will avail you nothing.

SG, in every case of exposure to the commander, he has -without exception - been understanding and accommodating to the reporting spouse. In some cases, he didn't even put it in the persons permanent file, but had an off record talk and made him end his affair. The commanders, in every case, made SURE the affair was killed. <------that is what it will take to kill it. You have no one else that can hold your H accountable, not even the chaplain.

smileygurl, Dr Harley has been specializing in saving marriages for 35 years and this is what he says:


entire article here: Exposure

I agree with Mel.

Go to command.

Smiley,

If you want to save your marriage, please go directly to the Command. When you go to them, explain about the financial hardship since it's at their discretion to penalize him with a decrease in his pay. I would also contact the OW's husband if possible.

The only way to stop the affair is to expose it the right way. Facebook isn't the right way. The Command is.

I agree. Your husband basically gave you a big FU when you told him you knew. If you want any chance of saving the marriage, prepare your case for exposure and then go to the command first, immediately followed by full exposure to both your families and your friends.
Your WH has made lots of threats of what he will and won't do for you if you expose, but please understand that as a military man, he does not have a whole lot of control over these things if the Commander says otherwise.

Also, you should be able to easily get information on the OW using the internet and once you have a phone number, you can plug it into certain websites and get the names of the other people at that address. Once you have found her husband's name, make sure you contact him too.

I know that the commander may have to follow some protocol, but its mainly stringent for things like suicide prevention, or sexual assault. This may not constitute for some stringent protocol, and he may be willing to work out a bargain with you. Even if the worst happens, it will still have a better outcome than living with a WH.

I have the OW cell phone number.

I can't exactly expose to the OW husband when I'm not even sure if that is his name. If I do find out the husband's name then yes I will expose to him. I thought I had it but I'm not so sure.

Everyone is tellling me to go to the command on here but everyone here is telling me NOT to go. It's the truth only the kids and I will suffer for his actions, and with him being deployed he does not have the urgent need for money over there. I do know exposure is key but the other half of the truth is his career will suffer (not that it shouldn't or matter to me he should get consequences) AND he is still going to continue contact with his OW. He may get in trouble but they are not going to monitor his calls 24/7 and he will get in touch with her if he chooses to. I know they can issue him a no contact order but in the cases that I do know of personally it didn't matter the WH contacted them anyways.

Please understand that I do WANT to expose to Command - that was my first instinct but the reality is what the reality is.

If I let the dust settle for a couple of days and then call command would that be so bad? At least end of this week...

I'm going to call the chaplain right now and tell him what happened and let him now I am leaning towards calling command and aswk him what the steps are to do so.

Good girl!

Please understand that these are well meaning people but they do not know how to save marriages. Dr Harley DOES know how to save marriages. He is a clinical psychologist and the founder of MArriage Builders. Most of us who are telling you to expose have saved our marriages using these very tactics. We have killed numerous military affairs this way.You will lose your marriage and your H if you have a strategy that is tepid that only serves to ENABLE the affair and protect the affairees from the consequences of their actions.

The WORST that can happen if you do is your H loses some ranking and gets a cut a pay. The WORST that can happen if you don't is a divorce and a pregnant OW. [go read up in the pregnancy forum] You have uch more to lose, SG, if you don't. PLEASE expose this affair to his commander. I say this as someone who is deeply worried for your welfare. This is simply the MOST effective action you can take against his affair.

If his "career" suffers because of his affair it will be because of his actions, not yours. And by protecting him from the consequences of his actions, you help him be a BAD MAN. You enable him to be a sorry husband, father and soldier. You are HARMING him by protecting him so he has no motivation to get better. By keepoing his secret you protect the FOG that allows this affair to go on. Your family can recover from a temp cut in pay, it CAN'T recover from a husband and a father who is a bad man.

We have had numerous affairs killed via an exposure to the commander, and they DO monitor the WS and they typically issue a no contact order.

My fear for you is that you will do a little minor exposure that will not have any impact on the affair, but will be just enough to piss him off. A little exposure won't do the trick, SG. It is the equivalent of bringing a pea shooter to a gun fight. It won't kill the affair, won't lift your husband's fog and will likely lead to the demise of your marriage. It is just enough to piss him off with no return on your investment.

That will give us time to help you develop a strategy to make this as impactful as possible. Your instincts are right on.

In the meantime, SG, whatever you do, don't give your H a heads up about any of this. Start taking his calls and be as sweet as possible. Don't let on that anything is wrong. No lovebusting, just pleasant, pleasant, pleasant.

Do it. I did this when I found out about my wifes affair. I notified all the men on her list that she would no longer be contacting them. She was caught in an affair and will be devoting all her energy to saving her marriage.

A facebook exposure is very effective, but please do it on the same day you do the rest of the exposures. We can help you do this in the most effective manner and help you write the exposure letters.

I couldn't get a hold of my chaplain - my voice is cracking anyways. I'll get a hold of him after I drink some tea and eat soemthing.

Smiley, The folks there who are telling you do not go to the command have no idea how to save your marriage. Dr. Harley does & he says that Exposure is a key component in saving a marriage with infidelity.

As far as you & the kids being the ones who suffer because his need for money while forward-deployed is minimal - His Command has discretion over that. If you explain very clearly what you & the children's needs are financially, they will work with you.

Part of what keeps military wives enabling their active duty husbands is the punishment to him often also means punishment for the wife & children....loss of rank and pay. (This is part of what kept me quiet about my situation until the day I decided that I would not keep quiet any longer.) But the other cost is SO much higher...He could stop your access to the $ and direct it towards her anyway. Have you thought of that?

Affairs are sweet because they are a secret. Take that secret away from him & do it the right way. If you choose Facebook exposures, do it the same day (or after) you approach the Command. The people here will help you write something up. They have mad skillz But the Command is key. Please remember that. I KNOW you're scared about going to them, but it works.

And please don't tell him you're planning to Expose.

Awesome post, Chris! So glad you are here to weigh in.

SG, just so you know, we got the idea for exposure to the commander from a board member, Mortarman, who is a JAG officer and a member of MB who saved his own marriage from an affair. He directed many ppl here to report the the commanding officer and saved their marriages.

Would that it had helped ArmyWife. She went to command and nothing happened. I remember mortarman, good guy.

Larry

My heart is hurting so much right now.

I have just spoken to the Chaplain that I've been dealing with. I told him that I am leaning towards going to Command. He asked me why and I told him the best way for this Affair to end is to expose. I learned this from the book he gave me and from you wonderful people here. I feel like he is getting no consequence for his actions. While the chaplain isn't going to tell me what to do he is going to tell me what he has seen happen many many tiimes and what will happen.

My husband is Deployed.
His command is going to do the bare miniumum of punishment- what is already stated previously.
They will issue a no contact order that they cannot enforce.
While I do have some emergency funds to help with the financial blow for the first few months where they cut his pay in half, his paycheck will still be lower.
He does not need much funds to make it there so really other than make a mess he will have no real punishment.
the ones who benefit the most from his pay will.
They will do the miniumum punishment and then move on from this because they do have other matters to focus on especially since they are just newly deployed.
Also I have to think of the long term, if his paygrade goes down and we do get a divorce then what I'm entitled to also goes down.
If I do go to the command I need to strike when the iron is hot, within 2-3 weeks. If I wait longer than that then they are going to be wondering why I was okay with having this information before and why bring it up now...they are going to question my motiviation to pursuing this investigation.
My WH will continue to contact her whenever he wants by email and phone if he wants.
Since he is not in the states he cannot physically go see her anyways so basically it's not a big deal with the Army.

So basically ONCE AGAIN the only ones hurting from me going to the Command is ME and my KIDS???

My WH has told me numerous times before of when a spouse does go to command that she's stupid because the consequences affects her mostly especially if she is financially dependent.

I know this is not what I wanted to hear from my chaplain. He did want to get in contact with the chaplain in my WH unit and with my permission give him the details of what is going on. That way he can talk to my WH and have it still be confidential, meaning he will be going to command with this information.

Advised me to not do the facebook thing or have any contact with her whatsoever.

I feel like I am stuck either way and I can't do anything about it.

I realize exposure helped but were their WS deployed???

yep! They all were.

So, just to be clear - The Chaplain is saying to you - Do nothing...No exposure to facebook or the Command. He will contact the Chaplain in your husband's unit and have that Chaplain talk to your husband confidentially?

Is that correct?

If you are going to take the advice of an army chaplain over a clinical psychologist who has long, successful experience in resolving infidelity and those who have saved their marriages this way, then why ask us for our advice? Do you know that Army chaplains come to DR HARLEY for help in their own marriages?


If you are "stuck" it is by your own choice.

SG, I emailed a friend of mine this AM who is married to a guy who is a big time commander of a major base here in the US. Without giving a whole lot of detail, I asked her the hypothetical. What would your husband do if he found out someone in his command was having an affair and they were about to be deployed.

Just got the email back from my friend. She said that he would make the guy's life completely miserable, bust him down as far as he could go and do his darned best to minimize the financial impact on the wife/kids.

I know this is not scientific and I am not associated with the military so I have no idea how much leeway each commander has. My friend seemed to think that in this regard, they had some amount of leeway and discretion.

Smiley,

He is NOT a relaible source for information. His comment was 100% self-serving.

The consequences will not necissarily come from command. Think more social networking, and long term consequences. Those who support marriage, and have influence in his social network, will be the people who will most likely disapprove of his actions. If it is someone like a coworker, or a parent who he looks up to, then it will affect him greatly. The pay cut does hurt you, but in the long run it will be more consequential to the WH. Anyone can budget around finances, I was ready to downsize my home car, and everything in order to support my kids if my WW decided to take them someplace. To me money comes after my marriage and family.

I'm sorry, smileygurl, but this chaplain does not know what he is doing.

The notion that your H "will not get much punishment" misses the point entirely. The point of exposure is not to "punish" anyway. Exposure ruins the FANTASY. Most workplace exposures NEVER result in "punishment" anyway. But they are DAMN EFFECTIVE because it is no fun to get high when everyone is watching. It RUINS the affair.

Your H is in a fantasy addiction much like that of a crackhead. Exposure has the effect of bringing in a crowd of people into the crack house to watch the crack heads get high. It is no fun getting high when everyone is watching with disgust on their face and you are forced to explain. Like Dr Harley says, exposure blows away the FOG that insulates the affair.

Secondly, we have had affairs killed in ONE DAY from facebook exposures. Those marriages are already in recovery on this board. No guarantees, but this guy clearly does not know what he is doing.

frustrated.......

And they do.

I believe that Smiley needs to be calm & rational...approach the command with substantive info about what kind fo expenses she and the kids have. Explain that her goal is to save her marraige and be there for her solider to provide a stable environment when he returns, etc, etc, etc.

This is exactly how Mortarman, a JAG officer, and other commanders have handled this situation. They make sure the family is taken care of and kick the soldiers [censored] to kingdom come. Often they issue no contact orders that they most certainly do enforce.

In our experiece on this board, the commanders have been very accommodating and compassionate to the betrayed spouse.

Basically that's it. Do nothing.

Maybe it's time to use some of my Emergency funds to call Dr Harvey.

Yea that's true...could be scaring me to not call his command.

Because he knows it will ruin his affair. He needs you to protect him and his girlfriend. They cannot continue their affair without your help.

Isn't OW also military? Can't you go to HER command?

My take on this.

The Chaplain is giving her his take on what will happen to her financially if she exposes to command. And he is giving her his take on what command will likely do and the results of the reality that Chaplain is familiar with. Chaplain is not addressing the issue of saving the marriage. He may not feel competent to address that issue. Chaplain is sharing what he knows about the reality of what happens in the military culture when WH is deployed.

After all, as you accurately say Mel, Chaplains have gone to Dr. Harley for help on saving marriages. I don't read that Chaplain is trying to substitute his judgment for Dr. Harley's. At least he did give her "The book." I do read that both military Chaplains and Dr. Harley are both aware of the very real problems of military marriages and neither have a solution, currently.

And it isn't just military marriages. What about truck drivers, ship crew, railroad workers, traveling salesman (no jokes please), and any other type of chosen work to feed the family where one spouse has to go somewhere else for periods of time? Some can change jobs to be home all the time. Others, like those deployed, are stuck.

Rock and hard place meet and everyone, including the kids, gets crushed in the middle. Yes, smiley is stuck by her own choice.

I am not disagreeing with you Mel, just worried for the kids.

Larry

PS, I hope Dr. Harley is reading this thread in his search for more information on military marriages.

Larry

Yes Larry...It could be that the Chaplain's goal is not to save the marriage but to minimize what he perceives to be the negative consequences / effects to Smiley & the kids. He's not thinking long term though...Sometimes you have to take one step back to move forward.


When I decided enough was enough, and made my call I was SO afraid but I needed my son to understand that there were consequences to my DH's actions. I focused on my son and the kind of man I did NOT want him to be. I dailed the phone.

Thanks again everyone for your input.

Dday was yesterday so please bare with me.

I think Larry is right, the chaplain is giving me his take on what happens financially to the family. his mind set is not on saving the marriage and well this forum is. So I'm sorry that his take and everyone here don't match up.

I do want to take the necessary steps to save my marriage so if I do have to take the financial hit then I will. At least it's not unexpected.

D-day was yesterday....was rational decisons made so quickly after DDay?

I do like the idea of going to the command with substational evidence, also with my financial obligations letting them know I am only a stay at home mom with x many kids and pregnant and my goal is to save my marriage and make a good environment for the solider.

If facebook exposures work so well here then that's the motivation that I need to do so as well. Despite how that makes me "look" like the crazy woman what I'm doing is saving my family so if that's crazy so be it.

I want to take the RIGHT steps here everyone I really do and I'm absorbing a lot of information.

I went back and searched for posts with "deployed" and "deployment" to see what comes up and I've been reading everything. Haven't seen much that is like my situation a lot of them were when the soldier is deployed and the wife messed around.

Turns out that my chaplain couldn't find the OWH in his brigrade, but he will try to verify that. I used her cell phone and did the check up, it came back same first name different last spelling of last name. It gave me an address but it was from a different state maybe it's her parents information. I wonder if there are better ones out there that will give me her husband's information if she has one with her husband.

No I saw in her MSN profile that her husband is in the Army but that information was put up 4 years ago. So could be she isn't even married and he just told me she was so that I would be "more comfortable" but then again he was the one who told me the guys first name....

Chris:


Yes Chris. I thought of what you said as well, as in long term benefits and decided that probably someone else with more experience in the military marriage world would say it for me if that was a good enough thought. I was a bit uncertain, thinking ahead to possible divorce and a clutter of other stuff I couldn't make sense of in my mind.

Smiley has a lot on her plate to think about. I don't envy her job. This is one of those areas where I wish that Dr. Harley was farther down the path of his analysis.

Larry

Yes he is substituting his own opinion and like you pointed out, doesn't know how to save marriages. At the very least, following Dr Harley's advice to expose would likely kill the affair so the marriage can be salvaged when the WS returns from deployment. If the affair is not killed, this is more likely to move to divorce.

And that is the point of this advice. It is in the kids best interest for this marriage to make it. Those kids can survive some temorary financial hardship, they won't fare so well if their parent's marriage ends in divorce. Kids don't remember being broke, they very much DO remember divorce.


You are confusing the issue. The solution that Dr Harley seeks is how to create a ROMANTIC, PASSIONATE relationship while separated. That has nothing to do with salvaging a marriage from an affair while deployed so she at least HAS a marriage to salvage when he gets back. Just because Dr Harley does not know to create intimacy and romance while separated does not mean we throw away the marriage in the meantime and avoid using tried and true tactics to kill an affair.

Larry,

I have the same wish.

SG,

I don't know that you need to discuss the evidence with the Command but have it ready in case they ask. When I used the word "substantive" I was applying it to a detailed list of your family's expenses as they relate to his pay. "Sir / Ma'am, this is what I need to take care of our children on a bi-weekly basis."

Make sure you keep going back to wanting to save your marriage and wanting to provide a stable and loving family environment for your soldier at the end of his deployment.

So the first act of action is a)Exposure from all sides (command and facebook and his most valued friends)
and then Plan A?

This is the beauty of a facebook exposure, smileygurl, it usually is successful in flushing out the parents and the OWH. Facebook is a collection of ones closest friends and family.

In the exposure letter you can ask the respondents to contact the OW's husband and parents and ask them to CALL YOU personally. For example:

Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
Thank you, BW

Dbl post...weird...

Great letter. I honestly would not like my phone number on there however...but I think I will use that.

Plan A is exposure. I will post an outline below. But I would make a list of all your exposure targets and plan it for the same day. For example, with the commanding officer, I would send him an email giving him all the facts and ask him to contact you directly so you can discuss it.

On the same day, email all your facebooks contacts and CALL family members like his parents, your parents, siblings, close friends and anyone else you deem important.

BE SURE AND TELL THEM YOU ARE PREGNANT. This will enrage most people at the OW.

When you call this group, calmly give them the facts and tell them you love your H and are trying to save your marriage. And then ---->real important -------> ask for their advice. If you ask for their advice, they tend to become invested. Ask them to use their influence to persuade your WS to end his affair.

Many exposure targets say "ok, i won't tell anyone!!!" Tell them nonononnono!! That defeats the purpose! Affairs thrive on secrecy! Don't keep it a secret.

When you do the facebook exposures, copy all the contact names in a Word doc because once you start exposing the OW will shut down her page. Expose by going to each person's page and sending them a private message. You can do an announcement too, if you think it will help, but each person needs to get a personal email.

NOW. Listen carefully, SG. Are you listening, hun? It is important that you brace yourself for your H's fury. In addition, you will get emails from nitwits who say stupid things like how mean you are, blah, blah, blah. BLOW THEM OFF. You dont' want or need the approval of CRAPWITS. You will also get supportive, caring emails. Those are the ones that count.

SG, the parents and the OWH have to have way to contact you so the # really needs to be in there.

Smiley


I want to underline that point. Tell them how far along you are pregnant. This was a big part of another thread that was on here a few weeks ago. You know how most women and some men are about a pregnant woman. Use it for all it is worth. I would bet even money that skank has no idea you are pregnant. At least I hope OW doesn't know, because that would make her an even more lower form of life.

Larry

I don't know for sure if it is the parents....like I said the last name is spelled differently from what I know her last name is.

smiley

I am glad you made the decision to go the best route for your effort to save your marriage. That was your decision to make and you have made it.

Congratulations!

Larry

Just expose to everyone on the list and ask them to have the parents and the OWH to CALL YOU. That way the right people will likely get the message.

SG, please post your letter here so we can give you feedback before you send it ok,? And did you see my comment about telling them you are pregnant? And be sure and tell them how many kids. This will infuriate all but the most heartless fb friends. Anyone who is not outraged by that is a loser.

Mel<----overwhelmed with relief!!

Ahhhh shaddup Mel

Larry

It's the truth only the kids and I will suffer for his actions, and with him being deployed he does not have the urgent need for money over there

You need to establish a checking account with only YOUR name on it and make arrangements for an allottment to go into it. Have 90% of his pay go to you...and he can have 10%.

Going to the commander can help get this going. If your WH is ordered to do it...he cannot go back and change it.

Then once you get money coming in...you can expose to your hearts content.

committed

Hell I wasn't listening last time when you were saying "HE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR OPEN YOUR EYES" (well not in that way) so I better sharpen up and listen this time.

Would it be wise to wait until at least payday next weeek to be sure I am at least covered for the bills this time around?

Also referring to bringing sustantial information about how much I need biweekly to make it - so DON"T bring the evidence I have just let them know this is the bare minimum of money I need to survive every 2 weeks?

Does the dock of pay also apply to the extra pays that come with deploying to a hazardous zone? I supposed that's a question for legal.

Another question - isn't there a chain of command I have to go through before going straight to the commander?? I want to make the right steps and not be made into a joke and thus not taken seriously.

BTW I'm due in a 6 short weeks so I need to get the bulk of this work done before the baby comes...

SG, I would go directly to his commander. Send him an email with all the pertinent information and ask him to call you. Tell him you are pregnant and that you are fearful your WS will cut off your support in revenge. Ask him to do everything in his power to kill this affair.

I would not wait to get this done, SG. The longer you wait, the most opportunity your H has to pre-empt you and spin the story. If he pre-empts you and spins the story ["my crazy [censored] wife is imagining I havig an affair, blah blah] then when you do contact your target, their mind will be closed and they won't even look at your evidence.

The sooner you get this done, the sooner you can move onto to the next step. Once you do this, you will find that your stress level is going to go WAY DOWN. And that is what you need the most, my friend!

DOES YOUR MOTHER KNOW?

My mom? she doesn't know about the A and he dislikes her anyways so her opinion wouldn't matter.

Her opinion would matter to you though, right?

I would think your mother would be a major source of support.

You need your mother in your time of need, SG. You need her for your own support.

I am just checking in...so happy to see Smiley is on her way to doing this.

Smiley,

No need to wait. You have your form letter and your plan as outlined by the great people here.

We're all with you

You are correct I do need support unfortunately my mother is not ideal she and I don't have much of a relationship.

Thanks for the support everyone. I am meeting with my counselor on Monday morning so I'm thinking of getting everything set up by then and send it off Monday morning.

Please tell me this will work...WH is at the point where he is set on a divorce as soon as he gets back.

Chaplain was adamant for that I do NOT stop him from talking to the kids over the phone when he calls. I was just not going to answer the phone this entire weekend but should I go ahead and answer now? He already told me he won't call the entire year but I know that is not true.

My opinion: If you feel that you are capable of NOT spilling the beans about your plans, then I think accepting a call from him would be OK.

Anyone else?

Just because he said it, does not make it so.

I decided on Monday morning instead of Friday because I haven't grieved yet. Ever since I found Out I've been talking about my next step, what to do now, what is best for my family.

I need a minute to breathe and cry. Then plan, then take care of my kiddos who thank goodness are on spring break and don't mind just playing at home.

smiley:

In combat, there is quite time. Between bouts of sheer terror, there is time to think. And think we do. We talk to buddies about the problems in our lives. We confess the sins of our loved ones and get called out on our own shortcomings. In combat, the greatest bond we have is between us, the ones getting shot at and are at risk. We think about what we are going to do if we survive. And we sometimes change our minds a hundred times as we think.

We try not to get distracted, but we think.

No matter what he says, he is going to come home, different. It goes with the job. It is impossible to predict the changes he will make to himself as he works to survive and hopes to get lucky. It is what it is.

Larry

Agreed.

ok, SG, why are you waiting to expose? Your typical "counselor" knows butkus about recovery from an affair. Is there a reason why you are waiting to expose?


He wants a divorce because of his AFFAIR. What he wants will change from day to day. We don't know if this will work, but this plan gives you the BEST CHANCE because you will ruin the affair. When you expose he will call up screaming and carrying on and threaten "it is over now!" blah, blah, blah, blah. Just pay him no mind. Just envision that you have taken the crack pipe away from the crack head.


continue to take his calls and be as pleasant as possible!

Smiley,

Mel has a good question. Can you do this asap before Monday? No need to wait to get started on saving your marriage

I can do this quickly and I know that time is of an essence. I am making sure I am doing the right thing here and so I wanted time to think things through. I already decided in my heart that I will go to the command but I need to address the concerns that the chaplain has brought to my attention as far as financially. I want to look at my budget, see what I can cut back on how much do I really need to survive. This is going to be a hard fight I have to prepare myself. I know I may be overly cautious but I don�t want to make decisions based on emotions but out of rational thought.

Talked to my very good friend who has 2 different experiences with her commands when her H was going through his As. She was putting things in perspective and make sure I am looking at all of the possible outcomes should I do this or not do anything. She said that if people are going to say I�m stupid for losing out on that money tell them well that I think my marriage is worth it. She also knows what type of person my WH is like. He would do things out of spite - do things just because someone told him not to. Together we were trying to figure out if by doing this will it backfire on me and make them closer together.

When I was talking to her I remembered something he had told me during one of our fights. He said if I am going to the command then just go but if I am not, shut up about it. I forgot what we were fighting about but I do remember him saying that. So remembering that solidified me to go ahead and go to the command.

Wanted to add that no I don't plan on waiting to talk to my counselor before I go through with this. I want to wait until Sunday evening send my messages so that first thing they see Monday morning is my message. Monday morning just happened to be the next time I see my counselor and maybe I can discuss my feelings with her then.

I still don't know exactly how to get in contact with his commander. Isn't he depoyed with my husband's unit? Do I talk to the Rear D command?

Going through her facebook page which is private. Went through her friends list and found my husband under a different name. I see their correspondence since Feb 28th.

This solidifies my decision for sure and I am sending my messages right now.

Let him know that OWH might just have him fragged while he is over there. If they are close enough in deployment, don't think he won't go and do it himself.

Your husband has no idea what kind of danger he has put himself in, far worse than the enemy.

Smiley- I hope you used the templates set out on here so your exposure doesn't come off sounding emotional and vindictive. You ARE emotional right now, but you want to seem cool under pressure.

Take care of yourself and those kids.

I may have missed it but How old are your children?

Smiley girl,

I am a senior Navy Officer with 22 years in, so while I don't know everything, i have been around awhile.

Your H is in an A with someone that is not in the military, but rather the wife of a service member.

Since she is not in the military, and also very importantly not in his Chain of Command, I would be very surprised if he were busted in rank, or had any of his pay garnished.

Who is telling you this? Why would the Army (or whatever service it is) be interested in NJP for an affair that does not involve another service member and not in his chain of Command?

Now the fact that she is married to a Service Member is to your benefit the way I see it. I was involved in a case in Germany where an Officer was involved in an A with a Navy Chief's (E-7) wife. The Chief found out and exposed.

The Officer, an Air Force Major, was reprimanded, reassigned out of the country, and forced to tell his wife the truth since she had also found out and was calling the Command for the truth.

He did not lose rank.

SWW

Smileygurl,

First off I want to say you are doing freakishly well here. You are thinking clearly, logically, and completely. I don't know how you do it with DDay so recent, WH deployed, and pregnant hormones flying around on top of it all. So my hat's off to you.


Exposure frequently does bring the infidels closer together temporarily. They adapt this "us against the world" and "our lurve can conquer all" attitude that quickly fizzles under the harsh light of reality.

Exposure is a powerful tool. Expect a backlash of fury from WH. He might threaten divorce, he might threaten all kinds of things. That is just his addiction talking, and you are his scapegoat. Actually the more he reacts to exposure,the more you can congratulate yourself that it is having an impact. And... if you hear nothing at all from him, do not fret. That, too, means it's had an impact and he's "showing you" how little the exposure bothered him. Ri-i-ight.

SWW

Here it is:


The Chaplain also gave her a copy of Surviving an Affair, so he is not completely out in left field.

Her WH also threatened to hurt her financially. See her first post on this thread. She is working up an email to command that details her situation with kids and another baby due in six weeks. Which is the source of her fear.

I suspect she will be here in a couple of hours. She is in CA, and it is 5:30AM there. Anything you could do to help her word her communication with command would probably be welcomed.

Larry

I don't think you ever answered this.


Also, will command inform OW's Husband?
If not, what is your plan on informing him?

Thanks Larry,

Yeah Smileygirl (love your ability to call yourself that in the face of all you are going thru) it sounds as if your Chaplain has his heart in the right place, but unless there is something here that I missed, I am not sure he is right about the UCMJ (uniform code of military justice) rules that would be applied in this case.

If he is not having an A with a service member the rules are different an I do not believe he would be busted down.

But, I think you should make an appointment with Base Legal to discuss all this. You need to engage soon though.

I agree with others here, that you need to expose this to the Command and to others in the MB fashion, to put pressure on the A.

The Military, even if the adultery doesn't involve another service member, does not approve and will make it very uncomfortable for him. The fact that it is the spouse of another military member makes it worse. They will so bust this up, and you should demand that they do. Does the H of the WW know all this? I hope so, he can get involved as well from the military active duty side. Remember that as a Military Wife, you have tremendous power, use it.

Go to legal first. Tell them the situation and ask your options re: his pay etc.

I would not recommend simply emailing the Command about your situation. I would enlist the support of the Chaplain and that once your decision is made that you get him to approach the Command Structure for you ahead of time. He is likely an Officer, and as Chaplain has ready access to the Commander.

Then you go in person and make your case to the Commander. You tell him or her that this is extremely hard on you, that you are pregnant and facing delivery soon, that you are alone, that finances are extremely tight, that you are devastated by your H's actions but that you still love him, that you believe in marriage and want to save yours AND...

You need his help.

SWW

Below is an excerpt from the UCMJ. It had been on the military forum, but was wiped out in the crash.

Military Adultery

(Manual for Courts Martial Definition)

Section IV.

Paragraph 62. Article 134 (Adultery)

a. Text See paragraph 60.

b. Elements.

(1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse with a certain person;

(2) That, at the time, the accused or the other person was married to someone else; and

(3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

c. Explanation.

(1) Nature of offense. Adultery is clearly unacceptable conduct, and it reflects adversely on the service record of the military member.

(2) Conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline or of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces. To constitute an offense under the UCMJ, the adulterous conduct must either be directly prejudicial to good order and discipline or service discrediting. Adulterous conduct that is directly prejudicial includes conduct that has an immediate, obvious and measurably divisive effect on unit or organization discipline, morale or cohesion, or is clearly detrimental to the authority or stature of or respect toward a servicemember. Adultery may also be service discrediting, even though the conduct is only indirectly or remotely prejudicial to good order and discipline. Discredit means to injure the reputation of the armed forces and includes adulterous conduct that has a tendency, because of its open or notorious nature, to bring the service into disrepute, make it subject to public ridicule, or which lowers it in public esteem. While adulterous conduct that is private and discreet in nature may not be service discrediting by this standard, under the circumstances it may be determined to be conduct prejudicial to good order and discipline. Commanders should consider all relevant circumstances, including but not limited to the following factors, when determining whether adulterous acts are prejudicial to good order and discipline or are of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces:

(a) The accused's marital status, military rank, grade, or position;

(b) The co-actor's marital status, military rank, grade, and position, or relationship to the armed forces;

(c) The military status of the accused's spouse or the spouse of co-actor, or their relationship to the armed forces;

(d) The impact, if any, of the adulterous relationship on the ability of the accused, the co-actor, or the spouse of either to perform their duties in support of the armed forces;

(e) The misuse, if any, of government time and resources to facilitate the commission of the conduct;

(f) Whether the conduct persisted despite counseling or orders to desist; the flagrancy of the conduct, such as whether any notoriety ensued; and whether the adulterous act was accompanied by other violations of the UCMJ;

(g) The negative impact of the conduct on the units or organizations of the accused, the co-actor or the spouse of either of them, such as a detrimental effect on unit or organization morale, teamwork, and efficiency;

(h) Whether the married accused or co-actor was legally separated; and

(i) Whether the adulterous misconduct involves an ongoing or recent relationship or is remote in time.


(3) Marriage. A marriage exists until it is dissolved in accordance with the laws of a competent state or foreign jurisdiction.

(4) Mistake of fact. A defense of mistake of fact exists if the accused had an honest and reasonable belief either that the accused and the co-actor were both unmarried, or that they were lawfully married to each other. If this defense is raised by the evidence, then the burden of proof is upon the United States to establish that the accused's belief was unreasonable or not honest.

d. Lesser included offense. Article 80-attempts. Adultery is not a lesser included offense of rape.

e. Maximum punishment. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.

Add the following subparagraph to the analysis of Article 134 (Adultery) found at appendix 23, page A23-16 of the MCM.

c. Explanation.

(1) Subparagraph (3) is based on United States v. Poole, 39 M.J. 819 (A.C.M.R. 1994). Subparagraph (4) is based on United States v. Fogarty, 35 M.J. 885 (A.C.M.R. 1992); Military Judges� Benchbook, DA PAM 27-9, paragraph 3-62-1 and 5-11-2 ( 30 Sep. 1996). See R.C.M. 916(j) and (l)(1) for a general discussion of mistake of fact and ignorance, which cannot be based on a negligent failure to discover the true facts. Subparagraph (2) is based on United States v. Snyder, 4 C.M.R. 15 (1952); United States v. Ruiz, 46 M.J. 503 (A.F.Ct.Crim.App. 1997); United States v. Green, 39 M.J. 606 (A.C.M.R. 1994); United States v. Collier, 36 M.J. 501 (A.F.C.M.R. 1992); United States v. Perez, 33 M.J. 1050 (A.C.M.R. 1991); United States v. Linnear, 16 M.J. 628 (A.F.C.M.R. 1983); Part IV, paragraph 60c(2)(a) of MCM.

(2) When determining whether adulterous acts constitute the offense of adultery under Article 134, commanders should consider the listed factors. Each commander has discretion to dispose of offenses by members of the command. As with any alleged offense, however, under R.C.M. 306(b) commanders should dispose of an allegation of adultery at the lowest appropriate level. As the R.C.M. 306(b) discussion states, many factors must be taken into consideration and balanced, including, to the extent practicable, the nature of the offense, any mitigating or extenuating circumstances, the character and military service of the military member, any recommendations made by subordinate commanders, the interests of justice, military exigencies, and the effect of the decision on the military member and the command. The goal should be a disposition that is warranted, appropriate, and fair. In the case of officers, also consult the explanation to paragraph 59 in deciding how to dispose of an allegation of adultery.

Just woke up and saw 2 vile mesages off of FB. She took off my abliity to look at her friends list and I couldn't exactly sent them all off since I was engaging in "annoying behavior" and FB blocked my ability to send messages but my friend helped send some messages for me.

It's hard for me to ignore those vile messages- did the message make me seem crazy??

Dear friend of OW,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that OW is having an affair with my husband, WH. We have been married for 9 years. We have 3 kids together and I am 34 weeks pregnant with our 4th child due in the beginning of May. They have been having this affair since February according to the evidence. I

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with OW to persuade her to leave my husband alone. I am doing this to save my marriage and keep our family together.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and contact me through this email address

Thank you,"

I basically followed word for word what the template said.

Smiley..go back and re-read what the vet said. Some people will blow you off or try to gaslight you. They are not worth your time of day. You will most likely get a number of supportive messages. You might not get any response from people who do support you but don't feel the need or want to email back to tell you...but you will have made an impression.

Her taking away your ability to look at her friends list means you are messing with the affair. That's good. Hope you took previous advice and wrote down all their names, etc.

YOU DID GREAT.

Any response means that people have seen it. There are going to be ramifications for this on her end and you did it EXACTLY right.

I sent POSOW's family messages and got only one response which said, "I know POSOW, but I don't know you." I didn't care because it meant that the truth is out there. WH and POSOW can't go along in a few months and say that they got together AFTER the separation. People know the truth and POSOW and WH KNOW THAT PEOPLE KNOW. That's all I needed.

Don't read what those people wrote and as a matter of fact ERASE THE MESSAGES FROM THEM. Who cares about THOSE people? If their spouse ever has an A, they will have a good template to use for their EXPOSURE.

KUDOS. YOU DID GREAT

Please tell me I did do the right thing by those messages...taking drastic measures to save my marriage and stop the affair.

SWW - chaplain was telling me what he saw happen many times. So I dont know I tend to believe him.

I heard from Chaplain that OWH is not in my WH brigade. So I don't even know if that is her H. Maybe she is seperated. Unless someone from her friends list that I was able to send my message to knows her H or ex H then I dont know if I am able to expose to him. My WH could have just said she is married and gave me a fake name so that I would have felt comfortable that they were texting and calling each other. Another LIE.

About my WH not listening to his parents last time, I was referring to back in 2007 when he decided he didn't want to be with me then. He gave the ILYNILWY speeh then. I didn't get that speech I got the I"m just not happy speech but its the same thing. He gaslighted me on everything that I found - excessive text messaging, using our credit cards to buy gifts (said he did it for a friend who owes him) even jewelry, found used condom in his truck he said someone was playing a trick on him - I BELIEVED HIM! I wanted our marriage to work! Told his parents everything and they took my side. My MIL made a comment about his post traumatic stress disorder because it seemed as if he was using that as excuse (she said that was a bunch of crap) and so he stopped calling them for 6 months. At the time we were stationed in hawaii and they love him so much so they were very hurt. I got the impression that my MIL resented me for that especially when I didn't have concrete proof of him cheating or of him confessing. So that's why I think they are reluctant to take sides this time. I am sure if he ever calls they will ask him about this. They have been supportive though.

Sorry for the multiple posts but I wrote a long update and some reason it didn't go through.

I got an email from chaplain about not finding OWH so I wrote him back to update him on what's going on. I really hope he can help me, even though now he knows I did not take his advice about not using facebook. He actually told me "it's not the classy way to handle things" and said the classier I handle things the better things will be and/or seem.

I have no way to email the commander. Do i talk to the Rear D commander then? Is that how that works?

All I have is my FRG leaders phone numbers - and one of them IS the commander's wife.

Do I go to legal first then? And then to my commander?

Smiley, you ABSOLUTELY did the right thing by sending those messages! Remember, you are fighting a battle for your marriage. You basically infiltrated the enemy's camp and spread the word. Regardless of the responses you receive, good or bad, the word is out and the message is that you will not back down or roll over.

Now that you've done this you need to QUICKLY speak to a commander. Not being in the military, I'm not sure exactly how that works but I've seen plenty of others who ARE in the military giving you advice. Please, please listen to them. Your marriage depends on it.

((Smiley))

You did GREAT!!!

Way to stand up for your marriage and your family Smileygurl!!!

Anyways in 2007 he went back and forth with me. As soon as I agreed to move back to Texas seemed as though he turned around and changed his mind. Found a love letter in his wallet and so he went back to telling me he wants a divorce. Finally in August he decided to try to make it work with me - he tells me now he was guilted in it because I kept bringing up the kids and how our quality of life was going to go down. He told me then he gives up and just settled. I tried to Plan A him but it was hard. He left for his 2nd deployment end of that year but we were still "working things out".

I told him the truth when I said we really would be in welfare and living in 1 bedroom apartment with my mom if I had left him then. So in a way I guess I did guilted him. He told me I can't do that to him this time and that if I do go into welfare and we do live in 2 bedroom apartment then he is willing to let that happen. I know that's the WH FOG talk and I should really not listen to it but it still hurts.

WH wrote me a message on FB last night before I found his secret page. My friend told me not to bring attention that I know of that page so that if he does update it we can see it. He actually posted on there that he is in a relationship with the OW. WHen I first saw that I was excited because I thought I found her husband or even boyfriend...I broke down when i saw it was my H. I may have acted on emotions last night but I really need this to be over my children are getting affected by this.

I am on my way to labor and delivery. Last night I realized that the baby has not been moving around so much. I also want to talk to my doctor about my depression - not eating and sleeping well. I feel as if I'm losing some weight. I also want to get checked for STDs.

Not sure if I shared this yet but I don't know where to go. Isn't his command deployed with him? Do I go to the Rear D command? Or do I go to legal first? I have my FRG leaders information and one of them happens to be the commander's wife. Should I call her and ask? Or do I try to go through my counselor and/or chaplain?

The counselor is not my set counselor..they are like life coaches that switch around every 6 months to ensure confidentiality. Maybe i need to talk to someone who is going to be here for the year....this lady does not take notes keeps everything in her head. Every other counselor kept notes so not sure if this is going to work for me but I do need the suppport.

I am really trying to hold it together here guys but I feel like a severe depression is around the corner.

Deleted the last nasty email. This one was pregnant too and I thought she would be sympathetic but she said I am sad and lonely person to be doing this. I DID THE RIGHT THING I DID I DID.

SG,

Do NOT CALL THE COMMANDERS WIFE!

Way uncool and she won't like being brought into this and the Commander won't like her being brought into your situation and the situation of one of his soldiers.

Legal first, get your options. I dont know what service your H is in, but in the Navy, a Navy Wife outranks everybody and I mean everyone.

If legal tells you they aren't able to advise you since it is possible action against your H or something like that, get the newspaper that is usually printed weekly for the base. In it you will find a lot of ads for lawyers that are retired JAG officers.

Andrews AFB is called The Capitol Flyer, you know, the ones they put outside the commissary.

SWW

SWW

Smiley PLEASE note SWW's advice.

-JKT

Yes. SWW is giving sound advice.

Please explain what kind of information am I going to get from Legal so I know what to ask. I don't want to just show up and not really know what to say.

"What kind of unit is this? They didn't leave a detachment behind? Isn't there a family support plan? The base out of which the unit is detached will have a family services office and Legal, that's where to go."

They do have a detachment unit behind...I just don't know where to go. My counselor told me that some soldiers like to keep their wives isolated and ignorant so they don't know what to do. Feels like he's done that to me.

Oh only reason why I would call the commander's wife is to find out how to get in touch with Rear D.

He is in the Army

So this is his second affair?
Or was the affair in 07 with the same woman and you had a false recovery?

How did he meet OW?

Make an appt with Legal and tell them it's about a financial matter and that your H is deployed. Once in you tell them the story. Here is what he is doing and he is threatening to cut you off. You tell them that you believe that it is the wife of another service member but that she is not in the military. Right now you need financial protection. You may be able to get their guage on the UCMJ ramifications, but, much discretion is left to the Commander, which is why I say dont get off on the wrong foot by draggin his wife into this or by firing in an email.

Now, since you aren't the service member they may not be able to tell you some things, or may refuse to, that's why i say call one of those retired JAG guys in the little on base newspaper, or have their number handy. Your first consult should be free.

I don't know what a rear D is, but if you google the base there will be a phone directory, look for Legal.

SWW

Just remember that you don't need the approval of CRAPWITS! It is better to get the DISAPPROVAL of a fool than their approval.

You did great! Now, it is important that you finish up your exposures TODAY to give them tsunami effect. You have them on the ropes and cant afford to let up.

And yes, exposure is very "classy," you can tell the chaplain. What is not "classy" is lying and cheating and doing a married man. There is nothing low class about exposing low class behavior. All you did was expose TRUTH. If people find that behavior non classy, then that reflects that behavior.

Would it help to tell them that it's a family emergency in order to get seen quicker?

Have to run to an appt, but can y'all please get her on track to finish up her exposures today and get through to the commander? SG, don't let this dribble out, or you will lose the impact of exposure. This needs to hit the infidels like a tsunami.

SG, can anyone else finish up the exposures to the OW's facebook friends for you?

I can 't verify if there was an affair in Hawaii so I don't know. It is most likely a different person.

He met my OW through my kids' elementary school. When I first found out they were talking on by cell phone, this is what he told me. If you see someone every day at pick up you tend to make small talk. However ever since the beginning of the year he's been telling me about this woman he found attractive. He's just like that - that's just the way we were if he found someone pretty at the mall he'd tell me and I'd tell him the same. BUt I realize NOW that if he kept telling me about one person that should have been a red flag.

Here's another bomber- her daughter was in my son's class. They had the same teacher. WHen i found out about her, he told me she is out of his life because they moved. 2 weeks later my son shared with me that this little girl moved away. My WH used to tease my son to tell the little girls mom to come over for a playdate and asked if he thought she was pretty.....

So in other words ...my son is going to figure out that his classmate's mom is with his dad? Isn't that going to mess him up emotionally?

Rear D means rear detatchment unit.

He has not really threatened to take away money from me. I know I have to protect myself in case he does but he has told me he would never do that but then again he always said he wouldn't leave me for another woman.

He has not actually threateneed me about taking away money though. Only way he threatened me was saying he will not call me for the entire year and he will go to command himself.

Oh and 1 other thing, no 2:

1. Get a voice recorder and record what he says, particularly when he threatens you. Maybe a lawyer can chime in here, but if he is deployed out of the country and threatening you with financial ruin as well as his kids I think it's pretty understandable, if not admissible in court.

2. You are amazing. Getting close to delivering a baby and going thru all this and yet still able to think and function? I am impressed! You are better at this than I was.

Maybe you should be the one in the Army! Or, heck, we sure could use you in the NAVY!!!

SWW

What will mess him up is lying to him about it and giving him false explanations. He probably has already seen alot more than you know and senses this is WRONG. But since no adult will validate his instincts he is thinking something is wrong with his head. When adults teach kids that wrong is right, nothing in life makes sense. It is horribly morally confusing.

I would set him down and explain the affair to him and tell him it is wrong and why. My own father messed me up real by taking me around his OW. I grew to realize I must be a very stupid child because what seemed wrong to me was obviously not wrong to adults.

What Melody is saying is true. I have direct experience with parent's denying reality and it messed with my head big time.

So go to legal and ask them what can I do to get financial protection? I am heading out to labor and delivery now so I won't be able to check until I get home. I may head to legal after the hopsital...but then I have to go to command tomorrow...

Take care of yourself. Go to legal and see what they say in regards to who you need to go to next. One step at a time.

YOU DID GREAT. Keep it up

Yeah this is a good idea.

SG, Mel is right. You have to expose, he is still carrying on an affair and he is blackmailing you to keep your mouth shut about it by threatening finances.

I cannot say for sure he wont be demoted, but I think the Commander will certainly take into account a devastated betrayed wife keeping the homefront safe so her H can deploy that is about to deliver a baby and is scared out of her wits she is going to be broke.

Too bad he's not in the Navy. I would put him on 3 days bread and water and throw his [censored] in the brig!

SWW

SWW -

I think Navy is completely different from Army. My friend who's been helping me her husband is in Navy and has had completely different experience with command so that's why I was on the fence about going.

Please take care of yourself first and foremost. Baby needs a healthy momma.

SG,

Sorry I forgot about this, but if he is enlisted (which I take it he is cause they dont normally demote officers in rank they just kick em out or throw em in jail) you may want to contact the Senior Enlisted Advisor first, or the Senior Enlisted at the Rear Detachment.

He may get you in to see the Commander easier. He will prob also arrange for your H to get a little, shall we say, "motivational encouragement" to knock it off.

All this really stinks, but, its gotta get done.

Gotta run, hope all turns out good at the DOC's.

SWW

Don't hold up on anything but I am going to ask an Army buddy of mine about this.

SWW

You do know.

This is his second affair. You may want to consider the alternative to recovery.

I am so sorry you find yourself in this situation. Listen to these folks advise, what they are telling you may seem counterintuitive, but it gives you the best chance for recovery.

smiley:

This is what you said today:


This is what you said in your first post:


I took that as a threat and financial intimidation. Correct me if I am wrong and need correcting. The bottom line is that you need the financial tree shaken really hard right now given your responsibilities with three kids and another one about to happen.

SWW says go to legal right now, like first thing. If you are still confused about how to get to command, go with SWW suggestions, he is military and knows the ropes.

And by the way, you are doing great!

Larry

Smiley,

I just read most of your old posts, going back to 2007. It appears as though this M has been in trouble for quite some time without intervention to change things. In addition to the A from 2007, did I read correctly that there was another EA somewhere in there?

This is my advice and mine alone:

First, take care of yourself and your baby. You are the mom of three, soon to be four, young children that depend on you.

Next, gather all the evidence of your H's A and see BOTH legal and the Rear D commander. In contrast to others, I am not against speaking to the commander's wife. There could be valuable support from the FRG. Do recognize though, that there may not be the same expectation for confidentiality with the FRG.

Finally, do whatever you can to protect yourself both emotionally and financially. I think this will get uglier.

AM

Contacting any of these folks comes with the possibility of unexpected results; however, I am thinking that contacting the wife is probably not prudent.

In many, if not most FRG's, the commander's wife is the the FRG leader. In addition, in larger units, there is a paid FRG coordinator (it may have a different title). There is an FRG regulation that talks about how to provide support to families of deployed Soldiers.

AM

It is things like this that make me glad that I followed my instincts and separated myself from my biological mother. I had very clear teaching on right and wrong prior to her "changing her mind." And then I only had a couple years exposure to her new thinking, which I completely rejected.

Telling people you don't see your mother is a hard thing to justify (especially back when I was a kid), but it was definitely the right thing to do.

Larry - the money I lose out on was from what my chaplain told me. And from what everyone around me has me told me to be true.

The money is referring to the the loss of rank, and they could dock pay for 2 months by half. So if either of us go to the command that's the results. They do this as punishment, and they say that in Iraq he doesn't really need the money so that's money that I'm losing out on here, money for me and the kids that I could be saving.

Baby is doing well. I was concern she wasn't moving as much last night like she usually is. Talked to dr about depression since I think I am about to go through one, I'm definately a candidate for post partum. Also took those STD tests.

Could not make it to legal today. My friend came to watch the kids for me and she needs to be home by a certain time so I will wait until tomorrow.

smiley:

In my opinion, when you got to Command either directly or through FRG, you need to have a goal, what result you seek.

Now just to clarify: when you spoke with your husband, you talked about the money issues your Chaplain told you about, yes?

If yes, then your husband did or did not use that issue to discourage you from exposure to command? The reason I am asking is to try to get a glimpse of what is in his head.

But of even more importance, I share your worry that if Command punishes him, the net effect will be to punish you in the short term against the possible long term benefits of rebuilding a marriage with your husband. So I tried mentally to think about a strategy that would work to your benefit. And by benefit, I mean for your kids and possibly for your marriage.

I read through MJC on the subject. Command has full authority to do whatever they want to do within the limits of both the Code and the culture. The word "Discretion" is used, or should have been. When you go to Command, either through FRG or directly, it might be a good idea to mention your reality to them.

You don't know the mindset of whichever Command person is going to make the decision of what to do. Command has options. They can sweep it under the rug or punish/influence your husband in some way. And I suggest that you have the potential of influencing Command's decision. Most, but not all, Command types will be influenced by you because that is the route that has the best potential for an outcome that gets rid of the problem.

The first thing Command is going to think when this hits their desk, is "Why me Lord?" They may not even KNOW they are supposed to deal with adultery. The second one is, "What the heck am I going to do?" Then they will try to remember if they have had to deal with this before, or one of their fellow commanders, or if it was covered in a seminar or training course, or whatever. And of course, Command is going to ask themselves, "What does this lady want me to do about this problem I didn't want in the first place?"

The goal of MCJ and military culture is to direct Command to both look at your case, and case it is, and decide what to do, with the goal of protecting the best interest of the military objective. This defines justice a bit differently than what you would find in a civilian court. Command will want to look good and do good from the military point of view.

Your situation is a problem for Command in two ways. First of all, what will the problem and solution do that has an effect on the ability of the individual soldier to fight as he has been trained to fight, and what effect will your situation and solution have on the image of the military (and command) and the influence on the overall morale of units that know about your situation. "Why me Lord, indeed."

The restoration of your marriage is not a consideration. But you know that. Since you are pregnant and because what it takes, if within Command's discretion to grant, are both factors in disposing of the case, you have a great deal of power to influence what Command does. Command wants this case off of their desk right now, if at all possible. From Command's perspective, this is a hair ball they really didn't want to see.

Think about what you want for an outcome. What can Command do to help you get that outcome? You know your husband. What could happen to him that Command could do to give husband a wake up call or otherwise influence him to do the right thing? Is he career military?

Unofficially telling Command that you don't want an outcome (and use that word) that makes it hard on you to feed your kids is probably going to get an answer back that Command has limitations on what they can do. And that would be a true statement. But that still places you in the catbird seat.

You have a great deal of power and influence over what Command will do when this hits their desk. Your are exposing to the military for your own outcome, which is the restoration of your marriage. So what can the military do to help you that they have the power to grant at their discretion.

How about a letter of reprimand?

Larry

How about a letter of reprimand, depositing of funds into an account where only she has access, and mandatory counseling sessions by the unit Chaplain on the sanctity of marriage and the importance of fidelity and family?

Larry I'm going to go through your post thoroughly after this quick update.

Not surprisingly after my facebook messages exposure, my WH called. He had emailed me the day before saying he won't be able to call until payday. Well that's next week. Just like my friend predicted, as soon as he heard that I exposed to her friends he was going to call.

Well the conversation could have been worse. I'm not going to try to replay word for word (I think I should invest in a recorder like was previously suggested) but he basically said he knows I told his parents and sister. He asked who else did I tell because he "knows me" and knows I would do something. I didn't tell him about the FB messages, just that I went to a counselor. So he finally said that he knows I messaged people (which proves he's been in contact with his OW) and that I should be getting messages on my FB. I told him I didn't say anything bad about her just told the truth about her affair.

He asked me if I was going to the command. I told him I would do what I had to do if this relationship doesn't end. I let him know that I do know the consequences financially and how it would ulitimately affect the kids welfare. He told me to "at least give me the common decency to go to command myself and turn myself in instead of getting called out." I didnt give the definate no I won't or yes I will. I brought up the fact that he's willing to let this affect our children financially just so he can continue this affair with the OW?

To answer Larry's question - I think my husband is trying to discourage me from going to command myself. He's saying he is going to do it but who is to say he will? Plus, he will spin it so that they think we both want a divorce. They won't know that I'm trying to save the marriage.

Anyways I gathered from the converstaion we've had, he's not planning to stop the EA right now. I've told him how this relationship affects me and how the kids need a whole Mom right now. Especially with him being gone, I'm the only one they depend on and the welfare of our baby. If I go through a depression now what's going to happen to them you know? Well I don't think I said it this way word for word but that's the gist. I told him about my visit to L&D and that I was asking for help with my depression. Didn't share that they didn't give me anything though. I do have to make an apointment with behavorial health and if he determines I need something now he can prescribe it.

I told him if we are going to end the M then let's do it the right way and not over this OW. He said it's not for her that he was unhappy for awhile blah blah. I told him I don't want you to bring this OW in our children's lives this way because the way they are going to see it that this OW is the one that got in between mommy and daddy. I know they will see it that way and will end up resenting her.

He had a lot of fog talk as far as the A. He said what we talked about before about how unhappy he was in the marriage was still true and that he's not leaving the marriage because of the A. I told him that isn't true because all of the divorce talk started BECAUSE he was seeing her. He showed no remorse, didn't say he was sorry. He did say he didn't mean for me to find out this way, didn't mean to hurt me. More fog talk.

Well he had to get off, he said he was using his friend's phone card. I asked him to please call back so we can finish this converstaion, even if i have to use some funds from the kids savings but he said no and that I can wait 5 days.


Last thing I said to him was I love him and that he's worth the fight.

The OW mom did get my message and messaged me back on FB. She asked for proof and I sent her my copy of my WH facebook page. She was saying she was having a hard time believing that her daughter would do something like this to a marriage that's happy.

She also mentioned HARRASSMENT. Ok did anyone experience harrassment threats from when they exposed via FB messages? She said if I messaged all of her friends and none of his (I messaged one of his but asked for his advice) then they could have grounds for harrassment and to contact a lawyer if I have any questions.

I"m a little concerned about this...should I be? Anyone know? I hestitated sending the evidence (didn't send all of it though) because wouldn't it give her more reason to think harrassment? If anything I should have kept those vile messages to show that I was getting harrassed if anything.

If Command agrees that is withing their discretionary powers to adjudicate, then I would think that would be a very good outcome.

Larry

So...she would do something like this to an UNhappy marriage?

And if the answer to the above question is YES - that would be OK with her?

((facepalm))

SG, don't fret over threats of harrassment charges. NOBODY is going to do anything over you asking for help to save your marriage. OW mom is in complete denial about the moral character of her daughter.

I was thinking the same thing, LOL. You are ok with your DD being a tramp/wh*re, interloper in someone's "unhappy" M? Good job raising your daughter, mom!

Also wanted to add what my counselor found out.

SHe went to Family Advocacy for me and they said since he is officially out of the country they will not charge him UNTIL HE GETS BACK.

They advised me to go to Legal with my evidence anyways. That way if I can see if I do have a solid case and build my case. I think that's what I"m going to do. As well as to see if it's true that command won't charge him until he gets back.

I also asked the advice of one of my WH former boss who is still in the Army. He said unfortunately the Army tends to brush this under the rug as well and look over the shoulder especially if I don't have pictures, video or a confession from one or both. If I don't have good evidence then there is no point to go. He did recommend me to go to JAG.

I think I'm going to visit Family Advocacy myself. I am definately going to JAG (that's the same thing as Legal right? )with all of my evidence. I want to do all of these steps BEFORE going to Command.

If they can assure me that they will show that I tried to press charges now and was told they cant charge him until he gets back (a year from now), as in have it documented then I'll be okay with that. Not okay with the fact that I must wait a year, that this could give the EA more time to flourish, before he gets some pressure to stop but then again what would be the point of waiting....I hope they can document time and time again that I am NOT okay with their relationship.

I know this is going against the typical Exposure protocol. I'm sorry this can't be as swift as it should be.

Harassment: Common talk for those trying to dodge. Your answer is simple.

"I am a mother and wife with three children and will give birth to our fourth child in six weeks. I am trying to save our marriage using exposure methods recommended by professional psychologists (or you can say Dr. Harley, a professional psychologist) who specialize in marriage recovery after adultery."

"An adulterous affair thrives in secrecy. I am attempting to remove the secrecy so my husband will wake up and come home to his wife and there, almost four children. I can only ask you to consider that three kids and one more on the way says all it needs to say about the prior state of our marriage, no matter how either your daughter or my husband will try to spin the past so they will not feel so guilty and ashamed."

"Does your daughter intend to stay with the husband she betrayed?"

Words are very powerful tools to change minds.

Do please see what I wrote about Command thinking and how words can influence them.

Larry

smiley


You are doing just fine. Exposure is a tool to stop the affair. And you are certainly doing the best you can. I like the fact that you now have the OW mother in your sights. I suggested some possible word tracks you can use to influence her.

The more you know, the more you can act on what you know rather than what you guess or want to be true. Your digging and digging and digging to find the truth is impressive.

Larry

In reponse to what the OW Mom said -

In addition to my evidence (I just sent her my WH facebook pages that I had printed off. I scanned and put into a photobucket account since for some reason I couldn't get my FB to load pictures from that account) I told her this

"I'm not doing this to be vindictive. I'm doing this to expose the truth about their relationship that it is an affair. No marriage is perfect, mine included but an affair can destroy a marriage no matter how good. "

(I should have put happy instead of good, makes more sense but it was late when I was writing it).

Along with my evidence I included a photo of me and my family, to verify that he is the same person in the facebook page.

I do plan on changing the password in 24 hours so that they had the time to look and that's it.

Terrific smiley. You got the point across.

Oh to be a fly on the wall listening to OW and mother have their conversation.

In the great scheme of things, pregnant mommy trumps, "But we are in luuuuvvvv.

Larry

Quick update -

WH called. I was surprised, not expecting him to call me until payday like he said but then again he's been lying through his teeth lately so what did I expect?

Anyways he says the chaplain came to talk to him. I know what they talked about is confidential but he said that his bosses can figure out what this is all about. And that his career is done.

He kept prodding me to go to command - kept saying "Do it, do it". And saying that he's going to command himself, that he will go to Col. and with me on the line he will tell them what is going on.

I think he's doing this because he hates waiting for the other shoe to drop.

We did talk for awhile longer but none of it was productive.He said it doesn't matter now if he does stop or not because his career is done. He said he knows why I'm doing this and he deserves it. He did say something like I'll make you a deal - if I cease contact with her and try to make it work for the year and then it doesn't we will get the divorce. I was telling him not right away because they say that don't make drastic decisions right after getting back from deployment, that we should wait 6 months. But for some reason he started getting angry. It dawned on him that I was actually going to go through with it. He started to say mean things because he realized everything he worked hard for is going down the drain because I started this by going to the chaplain. He said he was so close to be the next rank up and he was getting riled up.

I told him No, you started this because this OW was more important to you than your family, your rank and your career.

He started spewing more stuff but I told him he's getting more angrier by the minute and what we are talking about is counterproductive. Once he gets a clear head to call me back and I hung up on him.

Everyone here is prodding you to do it, too. I think maybe you should.

And saying that he's going to command himself, that he will go to Col. and with me on the line he will tell them what is going on.

I think he's doing this because he hates waiting for the other shoe to drop.


Say "I don't want to talk about divorce; I want to talk about making our marriage wonderful."


You're not supposed to be using exposure as a threat to him; you are supposed to go through it immediately and unconditionally, regardless of what he does. It's not something you dangle in front of him to try to get him to do or not do certain things.

You are dragging this out too slowly, I am afraid. Would be so much better for him and for you if it were gotten over with. He needs to start getting past all his idiotic anger, not repeating it again every week or two when he finds himself exposed on yet another front.


Bah. Rank and money are nowhere near as important as a happy marriage and family.

Smiley:

Something I just learned. I consulted a buddy of mine who was career military. He told me that E-6 and up are terrified of a spouse sending a letter to Command. He also said that Majors and up are terrified for the same reason.

It boils down to Command's reaction on receiving such a letter. They come down HARD on the lower ranks for letting it get so bad that it comes to Command's attention. He gave me a story about a young Lieutenant who had an affair and Command got the letter. He jumped all over the Captain who was over the Lieutenant and the LT got his you know what reamed. The affair stopped on the spot.

Your WH's career would only be over depending on how he handled it according to my buddy. It isn't as if this would be the first time it ever happened. If he acts contrite and says he will make it up to you, yada, yada, yada, his enlisted command will watch him to make sure he does it, goes no contact, etc., and eventually, it will go away, or it could.

Just saying. . .

And let me tell you, you are getting a tremendous amount of advice from here and in your military. You are doing a great job of weighing that advice.

Larry

He said he's done. Said he called her and broke it off with her.

It seems like the talk with his chaplain made it clear how far I'm going to go. He worked so hard to get where he is at so he SAYS he broke it off. He told me his version of their conversation which made me mad but that's neither here nor there.

I asked him how am I going to believe him and he asked me what does he need to do...I havent' decided.

He definately seemed upset..not sure if it's because I forced him to do something he didn't want to do or because he's scared of his career.

Both

And I would bet a million dollars that the person he reports to noticed the Chaplain and reamed him a new one. See my last post on how it works. The BEST guy to watch your husband just noticed. That is a very good outcome.

At least his first command now knows and if it escalates to upper Command, his first can say, "Sir, yea, I know all about it and am on it like a cheap suit, sir." This makes the direct report look good, Command can get it off his desk and doesn't need to do anything unless it turns nasty.

At that point, it is up to a reamed out husband.

Larry

So what's my next step everyone?

No Contact letter? what is reasonable to ask?

Right now I feel like he's in withdrawal and maybe still in the fog. I forced my hand and forced him to drop this relationship for the sake of his career not because of his family.

I have time to think things through...

I know I have to establish NO contact but how when he's so far away??


I can now do the carrot of Plan A right?

He is going to learn that his family and career at tied together but it will take him a bit of time to figure that out.

How can you sure he broke it off with her? What is your proof? It may have gone farther underground, maybe. On the other hand, he could have very well broken it off.

If it has and he gets caught, it really will hit the fan.

Now you have time to think, as you said.

And yes, be nice. You have nothing to lose by being nice. Plan A is a good idea. But I have no experience where you are now so my advice might not be right.

Larry

Suggestion: You probably should consider cleaning up your communication with the OW mother. She might be a source of whether or not the affair is closed or not. I had some suggestions back a page about communicating with her.

Larry

Smiley,

you're doing great!

I'd proceed with going to the Command, anyway. I'm thinking that he called and told you that the chaplain talked to him to make you THINK he already got into trouble. As for promising no contact with the OW for a year...how are you supposed to know if that's true? He could just take it deeper underground.

I think he is DESPERATE to keep you from going to his Command and is thinking of anything he can to gaslight you into keeping your mouth shut.

I agree with LC. That's what I thought too. You should go to command because he doesn't want you to, so this is your BEST target. He will be ANGRY but you already know you need to do it. Don't let this A continue without some trouble from your end.

I guess I am not devious enough. LC has a point. Which is not to say LC is devious, just more aware.

Can you find out from your Chaplain when/if he contacted the other Chaplain and what that other Chaplain did? You have a small window to gather facts upon which you can rely and base decisions before it reaches a point where Command will wonder why you delayed so long before getting Command involved.

I am old school military. And so is the buddy I consulted. He has more experience in current military culture than I do, but he still has limitations. In my era, enlisted Sergeants would do whatever it took to get a soldier straight and not have it come to the "Official" attention of Command. At the same time, command would often know enough because command's job is to know just about everything going on. And in my day, "Unofficial" methods of persuasion were very effective.

Larry

Nah, Larry, I'm not devious! I just have YEARS of experience with a gaslighting WH! After you realize that all the crapola he's been feeding you is really a bunch of lies designed to keep you "in line", you kinda learn how to figure out what they're REALLY trying to do when they start whinging and moaning and trying to lay a guilt trip on you.

SG's WH is in NO POSITION to be trying to make any kind of deals, and I think he has suddenly realized it, hence the attempt to bargain with her...and the credit goes to SG's Facebook exposure. This has shaken him up and shown him that SG WILL do WHATEVER it takes to save her marriage and family.

I think the Facebook exposure has put a crack into their affair. I bet the OW is afraid that her BS will find out any minute now. So, SG should do whatever she can to find the guy. Hopefully, somebody on the OW's Facebook will either tell him about the affair or will say something to someone else who will tell him. Facebook exposure could have a ripple effect. Most of these folks know each other IRL and they GOSSIP!

SG, you're doing GREAT! Keep on with contacting legal and the Commander!

Oh, and SG, if/when he calls again, I wouldn't even get into any kind of relationship/affair discussion with him. Just repeat these two things as needed:

"I will do whatever it takes to save our marriage and family. Hey, guess what (whatever child's name) did today! (Go on and tell him whatever cute thing the child did)"

"I'm not interested in divorce; I only do marriage. (Add something else upbeat and cheerful)"

If he starts getting nasty and tries to start an argument, say, "Oops! Littlest one just spilled Kool-Aid all over the floor (or whatever). Gotta go! Love ya! Stay safe!" and hang up.

I'm not going to command anymore. I will go to JAG and have them hold my evidence so that should I want to go I have that option.

He stopped contact because he knows I was prepared to go to command. He finally realized I was serious when I told him I got his orders so that we can break our lease once the dock in pay goes into effect. Now that he has stopped I won't be going and my mind is made up.

I've asked for him to get rid of any pictures he has, the phone number he wrote down and any momentos he has of her - I want any memory of her gone. He said he already did this.

I asked for him to delete his other facebook page and give me his passwords for his emails. He will get rid of any outside emails but won't give me the p/w to his military one.

Unfortunately I didn't see the advice to not stay too long on the phone with him. We ended up talking for an hour last night. He is very angry and withdrawn.

I know I have to do plan A right now. this is the hard part where he's intent on doing the bare minimimal and I'm going to be doing all of the nice stuff and not get any back..

smiley

Please go to the Chaplain so you can find out what really happened instead of what you were told happened. That might be important to you. You might also want to tell the Chaplain that your WH won't give you the pwd for his military email and there might be a valid military reason for that or not, as the case may be.

If you can control your love busters, then by all means stay on the phone as long as it does not become a crisis, again. Learning how to reverse fog babble might be useful for you. But I do have to agree with LC that arguing serves no purpose except to drive the wedge deeper. Don't expect to get anything back until he is through withdrawal.

The goal is to recover your marriage, not win points at this stage of the task.

Larry

Yes, DO verify that the chaplain actually talked to him.

The tricky thing is that he might set up another email account to communicate with her. There needs to be some method of accountability on his end, but I don't know how that can be arranged.

The only thing I can think of is to make sure the OW's world is blown up. You still need to find her BH and tell him, no matter what.

smiley

To add more to LC's continuing ability to ferret out the sneaky ways a WH can use, let me comment seriously:

You are doing great. Just don't fail to take care of ALL the loose ends in your situation. Any loose end can bite you where it hurts. Do expose to BH. Do verify with Chaplain. Do verify. Do contact JAG, and so forth.

Larry

Yes I do know the chaplain talked to him because the chaplain I talked to sent me an email saying he has gotten in touch with him. I emailed him back asking for any updates.

He won't tell me if the OW is married or share with me any information at this time. I will ask again but not right now.

His actions are very hurtful to me right now and I know he's doing it out of anger.

He put single on his real facebook page and put in his status "I'm not single but I'm in hell".

This was after our 1hour conversation last night...so I guess I didn't do so well.

I already messaged him about it maybe I should have taken the high road and not said anything?

I must have missed this but you mentioned other affairs:

1. How many OW has he made love with while married to you?

2. How many other cheating type things has he done? Prostitutes, online porn, etc.?

I would totally ignore any hateful comments on his Facebook page, just as you should ignore any hateful comments made by a falling-down drunk.

In your interactions with him, you need to be firm in your resolve, but very kind. He needs to see you at your best...to know that there IS hope for a wonderful life and marriage with him. This does not mean that you are to tolerate any further betrayal, but you just handle things the way you need to handle them for the good of your marriage, yourself, and your children while, at the same time, reinforcing the subliminal message that YOU are the perfect wife for him.

I once heard a woman say, "My husband may not be perfect, but he is perfect for ME."

I pray that the two of you will recover and that both of you will be able to say the same about each other.

1- this is the first one I confirmed w/o a shadow of a doubt that it was sexual.

2- he's done an EA, no prostitutes, probably online porn when he was deployed, found an adult finder ad once...if I have to think back to the past there was a lot

He's not at the place where he wants to restore love. What do I do? Especially since he's so far away?

Is that why I don't have much answers? There's no one been in my position before?

Please go back and read what I said about combat. There is not much you can do except follow the advice you have been given to be a happy face when he calls. Talk about the kids, etc.

The answer is to read the plan and follow the plan. If he is not in a position to read and follow the plan, yet, that is ok. There are no easy answers. Don't even look for one. It takes time, knowledge and effort to get where you want to go and there are no guarantees. The only person you control is you. And the only person you can get to change is you.

You do the best you can with the tools you have. You find as many tools as you can locate, such as Dr. Harley's methods and use them. No shortcuts, no easy fix, just what you have to do because you are a grownup with grownup responsibilities.

Larry

I would also point out that your husband is still calling you. That tells you that there is still some connection there for him - he is angry, but he is talking to YOU about his feelings, and hasn't just stopped talking to you altogether.

When he expresses his anger, you can respond positively to his statements without raising his anger level:

"I am hearing your anger, and knew when this happened that you would be angry. I was willing to risk your anger, because our marriage can withstand anger. I'm willing to walk through your anger and be there on the other side when you come out."

"I understand you had negative feelings about (whatever he states his 'reasons' for the affair were). I realize that our marriage was, and IS, in need of work. I'm willing to do the work and have already begun to work on what I think I have done wrong. I hope you can start walking that road with me to save our marriage."

"I hear and sense your pain and frustration. I'm also willing to listen to everything you have to say, weigh it all, and hope that at some point you will also hear my thoughts. I will let you go first, because I think that will help us save our marriage - feel free to talk, but please let's keep this calm and try to take the anger level down so we can make progress in our relationship."


At this point, if you MUST have any relationship talk, let him know that he can say what he wants, that you will listen to it.

Present him with the idea that YOU HAVE THE OPEN MIND - and that you will accept and listen to what he has to say.

Do not, however, allow yourself to get drawn into conversations that are back and forth about the relationship at this point - keep things on the positive. "I am willing to hear you" "I understand your feelings" "I believe in our future"

Because at this point, he has to believe in his own ability to save face, your ability to forgive, and the ability of the two of you to actually work things out without FIGHTING your way through the entire thing. And he has to believe that YOU really DO have a plan for changing.

Make him believe these things. The hardest part will be controlling YOUR responses to what he says

because he will say


MANY STUPID THINGS

and

MANY HURTFUL THINGS

and you will absolutely need to remember that he is an idiot right now. Try not to respond to the idiot in him, and appeal to the man you know that resides deep within him. Talk to THAT man.


SB

Smiley:

When schoolbus takes someone to school, I try to encourage them to pay close attention. She gives some of the best advice found on this forum.

Going back to a decision you made, which was to allow the 'Unofficial' route of exposure to happen, I was talking to my buddy earlier tonight and we were sharing war stories of times we have seen 'Unofficial' work.

Together we worked this up for you:

Top: Hey, what the {censored} was the Chaplain here about. Something wrong with your family I need to know about?

Hubby: Nope, just talking.

Top: {censored} Don't cow flop me, what the heck was that all about.

Hubby: Can't tell you.

Top: Like {censored} I don't want a letter to show up on Captain's desk and make me look like a fool cause I don't know something I should know. Lemme tell you what is gonna happen if you don't fess up. {{Now the list of dire and effective consequences a Top can provide at will}}

After more back and forth, hubby feels the pressure and ups what is going on. Top tells him what hubby is going to do about it and to pray that the deal never gets to command.

Top Sergeants are NOT officers and gentlemen. They have their ways. And their ways can often cause more trauma than would be present if it ever got 'official.' I assure you that if Top knows, so does command at some level, but not 'officially."

Hope that helps. And I hope that scene, which is probably close to what happened, makes you smile.

Larry

Thanks Larry that did make me smile

Thanks schoolbus for the good advice.

He's been calling just about every night but I discovered it's because the chaplain told him I said I was afraid he's not going to call me anymore (well it's TRUE that's what he said in the conversation when I first confronted him) and so chaplain told my WH to call me.

The FB status is there because that's the only tool he can use to express his feelings but he "isn't doing it to hurt me".

Says he will get rid of his other FB page as soon as he gets a chance and sorry it's not fast enough for me and to call command if he's taking too long. More foggy talk.

I TRIED to talk about happier things - about the kids but he doesn't want to hear it. Sigh. I know, I must have patience.

I asked for his mailing address which he did get finally but he won't give it to me or his parents or to anybody. He says he doesn't need anything from anybody. Only reason he is calling is because chaplain told him too otherise he would just keep to himself. Sighhh

I told him I respect that if that's what he wants to do but I hope he changes his mind. I told him it's not for him it's for the kids too how they WANT to send him things. He says to pretend to send it to him but send it somewhere else....

Still trying to be postive...he said he doesn't want to hear me say he's not trying so he's going to call but really is it trying? I am not going to ask that though just be happy he calls...

it's been a full week since we've said goodbye and it's been such a long week...I am certain things will go up from here just have to be positive try to Plan A him the best way I can.

I"m pretty sure that the FRG will pass on the address. From there I can send him things - it will just be a surprise. I think the first things I'll send is from the kids. What I don't want to do, however is email the FRG asking for the address. That would be a LB by not respecting his wishes. But if I send him soemthing anyways would that also be a LB?

Smiley:

Yea, well, leave us spin this in a different direction:


He is running from himself.

Top told him to do whatever the Chaplain said to do, or dire consequences. Hubby has had a blow torch applied to his preponderance and likes it NOT! This is what I suspect. See if you can find out if Top has crawled all over him. Chaplain should know. Chaplain isn't supposed to talk, but there is talk and there is, uh talk.

I modified my last post to insert DIRE consequences as only a Top can dish out.

By all means get his address from FRG and do mail him stuff from the kids. He needs to reconnect with his family. There will be envy from some of his buddies that will help. Lots of peer pressure in combat to value home and family.

Just ask any vet.

Larry

Talk about foggy talk. Your WH has himself convinced he doesn't want packages from the kids?

True fog!

Heard back from my chaplain. My WH assured him that he will keep in contact with me through out this deployment. In my last email to him I let him know that I was concerned when he said he's not going to call the entire year. I'm to let him know if he doesn't call ina reasonable time ( one week or two).

Havent heard from him last night but i"m sure he is busy, and probably busy to go online and take care of that extra facebook page. I am already planning on telling him to give me the email and password for that account so I can just take care of it for him with him on the phone.

Is that a demand though - a lovebuster? I figured it is one of the ways I can be assured that the contact has ceased.

Kids are back in school this week. Dropping them off triggers off a thought - like this is where they started talking and things start creeping my mind. I drove hom crying. It's going to be extra hard picking them up because I actually get off to get them. Not sure if I shared this but my son was in the same class as her daughter- luckily they moved away but still...

Need some encouraging words here that I can make it through this.

smiley, it's going to be one of the hardest if not THE hardest situation you will face in your life. You will find strength that you never knew you had.

You can do this.

No, it is not a love buster, it is a boundary. Next time you talk to your Chaplain, see if he can find out if your husband's direct report started talking to husband. If would be useful if "Unofficial" counseling were going on.

You have already grown. I can see by comparing your first post to the ones just above. If there is anything positive out of this mess, it is that you are assuming responsibility and becoming a much more capable woman, a real grownup. Steel is forged in the fire.

You obviously don't like why, but it is what it is and you are proving yourself to yourself. The changes you are making to yourself are very, very good and will help you in the future.

Larry

Thanks for the encouragement Larry and MicheleG.

He was able to call last night. The conversation was almost normal - as in I don't detect any more anger. He has said he was sorry, shouldn't have put me through that, etc. And that he hasn't had time to go on the computer because the lines are like 1 1/2 long but he isn't trying to stall or anything. We talked a little bit about the A. He was mostly quiet, so not sure if he's just taking it all in or what. He said this doesn't mean things are "good" between us but he knows I don't deserve that. I told him that it hurts more than any other time I got suspicious (rightly so) or even the EA because he used money that we don't have and made the trip. With every female friend we would fight about in the past his excuses were she's married/in a relationship and she lives in another state. I know now that isn't going to be a factor anymore. I mean, his family would have wanted to see him one more time before he left for but instead....anyways I said he made the choice even when he knew the friendship was going too far he made the choice to continue.

I took up ownership on my part, or tried to but the words didn't come out right. I know I wasn't perfect and I must have been horrible to make him even want to look elsewhere. he says he wasn't looking for anything else just a friend but like I said earlier I told him well he had a choice and he made it.

I KNOW I shouldn't have said so much, Plan A is not lecturing him or being the cause of his unhappiness. I will refrain from doing so next time when he calls.

Another good thing - he gave me the address. I asked if I could give it to his parents but he said he will.

Am I for sure certain contact has ceased? I dont know. I have thoughts in my head that could happen but those things are out of my control.

So funny how in a week things have changed. I am changing.

I expect to continue this Plan A all this year and next until he returns. Though he said in our second to last converstaion about R&R that he doesn't want to take one I am certain he will come home to me.

Smiley, you are doing VERY well. You can do this!

Yesterday was our 9 years anniversary. Today I bought myself some yellow tulips to celebrate. Doesnt matter if he hasn't said anything about it, it's still a special day to me

Happy Anniversary Smiley!

Happy Anniversary!

What are the kids putting in the mail to WH? I know it probably feels like things are going at a snail's pace to you but really changes are happening quickly for you right now. This stuff takes time to happen, and time to change. I see a lot of change and right now all of it good.

Bet the tulips are lovely.

I plan on sending something each week. Kids are sending pictures they made for him, cards. I have made a photo album with him and the kids that I wanted him to take with him but didn't come in time. I plan on sending something big every 2 weeks (care package) and something small in the week in between such as letters, pictures. Just a piece of home every time. I know during the last deployment I failed miserably on sending him stuff and I don't want to make the same mistake this time.

smiley

Doing good, especially with the stuff you send him. He is alone. Well, he has his military associates, so that means he is not alone because his bond with them is important. But he is alone.

He is not talking to OW. And that means he is not going to get his infatuation fix. This means that he will think about her less and less and you and the family more and more. Remember the post I made about the quite times at night during combat?

He will look forward to what he is getting from you. He will anticipate. Reward him. It is like Pavlov's dog. He will salivate at mail call. Been waiting to tell you that

Larry

What do I do with all of my questions? I have so much that i want to know but...then again do I really want to know?

should I ask him? Or just let it go?

I think that for now, you should continue meeting ENs. There will be time for questions later

You're doing so well!

Write your questions down. Save them for later.
You'll almost certainly find that the urgent, burning, pressing, relentless questions of today become insignificant. You'll also find that several of them are really just different ways of asking the same thing.

You guys are right...he's not completely on board as far as being with me still and if I start now on the questions that would just push him away..right?

Yes.

You ask no questions and do not initiate "relationship" discussions..but be open to responding when he initiates it. Even then, keep your answers short and focused on the desire to save the marriage + preserve the family. Most of all work on ENs...In the past 2 days, some people have come up with awesome ideas on how to do that during a deployment over in the Military Room.

And I believe that turtlehead is right. Try what he / she suggested and write your questions down...

FTR, Turtlehead is a she.

Smileygirl- I agree with what Chris is saying about how to answer. I think you should read up on the reverse babble threads and get some pockets responses to pull out that will throw him for a loop. I know one response that I was told to say was, "I believe in a M with only 2 people, want a cookie?" This was in response to a few things but mainly when WH would "suggest" that I was having an A.

PRECISELY!!

This is not the time to start drilling him. This is the time to attract him back into the M.

Personally I think you should wait on the questions until he is home and you guys are working things out via the Harley methods together. The questions are going to be a huge drain for him. You want to ask them when you can offset their "negativity" with some awesome EN-meeting.

Why Dahling, thank you for noticing!

You got excellent advice regarding "No relationship talk during Plan A". If he brings it up, answer politely but lightly and change the subject. Relationship talk is for recovery.

Thanks.


I am SO going to read the "reverse babble" threads.

Want a cookie? LMAO!

smiley,

You might want to write down all of your questions now. When he returns and you start R (we hope), look at them again before you ask them. You'll find that you don't need the answers to all of them anymore, just some. This will help both of you when the time comes.

I've used the "want a cookie". It really threw WW off her tracks. Still cracks me up too.

I am STILL laughing!

My co-workers are looking at me weird...

I've always loved this logic...

My favorite was always..

"Me too. What's for dinner..."

As in: "I'm sick of living like this!"

Me too. What would you like for dinner?

Or: "I never wanted it to be like this."

Me too. Would you like me to fix that roast for dinner or would you rather go out to eat?

And: "I always trusted YOU!"

Me too. I was thinking about that new Mexican place in town. Wanna try that tonight.

I guess I was focused on food so much because in the early days the only time I ate was when we were eating together...

Dropped 20+ pounds...

Slept about 8 hours per WEEK.

I knew she wasn't talking to him while we were eating...

I agree. Want a cookie?

Lol great stuff guys. I can't exactly use your examples by bringing up food just yet but I can try.

I'm getting all anxious..he hasn't called in the last couple of days. I know he's busy... I feel like this is our first deployment all over again and I'm hanging on for every phone call.

You can ask what he's eating, what he's been given to eat, or what's his least favorite thing to eat over there...LOL!

Lots of good stuff in the military forum. I bragged about some of it in the posting thread.

Larry

This is so hard...

Got a phone call for easter, he got to talk to my kids even my youngest. I asked if they do anything special there, and he said no not really just dinner (I should have asked what they served lol). Then I asked if he took care of what I asked him (other FB page). He gets angry because he says he doesnt have the luxury to get online whenever he wants to, not with the lines so long and hes so busy. I told him fine then let me take care of it for you that's when he gets really agitited.

It wasn't a very good conversation- he said he feels like he's being blackmail to do this, etc and that he doesn't want to come home for R &R. He said he wants to tell me so much but he doesn't want to upset me or be depressed and sick. And that non one wants to contact him right now he's just too much drama to have as a friend (I said this is not about just a friend) But he still feels the same way and he even said he soemtimes just want to tell them to take his rank just so he doesn't have to do this. I told him it's not me who wants his rank, it's what he did that is risked it not me. He told me not to tell him I love him and miss him and all that, and I told him well I do. He said he'll just call less because no matter what we say it won't change how he feels. There was more said I dont remember right now. He did say go ahead and go to the chaplain and command. He said he didn't want to talk about this right now especially on Easter when I'm trying to be happy for the kids.

My heart is breaking.

He did say towards the end to give him 12 hours to take care of it and that it will be done by the time he calls again. And he did apologize for raising his voice. He said I was right, that's how he feels right now about R&R because he's angry but what if 4-5 months from now it's still the same?

Sigh. I know it's been a little bit over a week since he said there's no contact. So I do have time to get back into his heart. I cant expect change right away. I want to get into recovery and I know it's going to take time...it's just so much eaiser to get over an A when I know he loves me. I know how hard it is to get through the fog, did it myself. I have to have patience and loving him even though it's hitting a wall.

Happy easter everyone...

Yea, well, I am unimpressed with what he says. He IS changing right before his very eyes. In the quite of the night, he is alone with his demons and he has fewer and fewer memories of the OW and more and more about you and the kids. Keep on keeping on.

Larry

Larry is on point.

You keep doing exactly what you're doing.

But no "I love you, I miss you" talk. Do not respond to his comments about the relationship or his feelings. Just your standard (and brief) reply about your desire to keep the marriage and the family together. Remember? We talked about that...

SG,

Just for ammunition, my nephew is deployed in Iraq as I write this. He is on Facebook daily. Next time he uses lines and not being to get online as an excuse, call him on it. Ask him why so many others are able to get online daily. Tell him you hear other wives saying their spouses are able to be online.

Regards,

BB

BB-That is good ammo.

I knew it sounded off to me. It set off major and don't forget that he somehow had been in contact with OW out there. I didn't think it would have been on the phone. Besides, he won't let you deactivate the account. You will still have to check though because Facebook accounts can be deactivated and reactivated all of the time.

It also bothers me that he keeps bringing up you going to command, like he is calling your bluff.

He's not in Iraq -hopefully this doesn't interfere with OPSEC but he's in Kuwait will be in Iraq shortly. He has been pretty good at telling me his schedule for the next couple of days, and tells me when he should be able to call. I know things will be different when he is in Iraq just because of experience.

I realize telling him the I miss yous and I love yous aren't good right now...ok short responses to anything relationship related...got it. Rereading schoolbus's post and will follow that.

Got a short phone call last night - he said believe me I want to get the facebook thing gone so I can prove to you that nothing is goine to change. I said one of us is going to change, if not you then me.

Just finished meeting with my doula, who will accompany me during birth. I ended up telling her about this situation, since she asked if there is anything going on that she should know about. Wanted to share that I'm relieved to know I have someone to be with me when I do give birth in a month or less. Met with my back up sitter for my kids last Friday so that's another less thing to worry about.

It's a start of a new week! I intend to make it a good one. Another day that passes brings me another day closer to a recovery and a happier marriage

Smiley,

Some troops don't have reliable or predictable access to the Internet and / or the phone, and some do. Your goal is not to call him a liar, but to express your interest in working on the two of you working together towards creating a happy marriage when he returns.

I believe you said that the Chaplain / Command will require him to call once a week. If that doesn't occur you contact THEM.

When your H calls, NO LBs...ENs only. No heavy relationship talk.

Comprende?

I got another phone call today unexpectedly. He never calls me this late(his time anyways) and so I was caught off guard.

I was happy to hear from him. I was telling him I won't bring up anymore relationship talk unless he wants to. I was going to be open minded, not make him feel bad and not judge.

Well he said he wanted to talk about our relationship. he doesn't want to wait the entire year to "discuss our relationship." He wants to talk about it every conversation. I told him okay I do want you to be honest with me how you feel, etc. So he was.

Basically said nothing is going to change. The problem is he has no love for me, blah blah blah.

It was a 30 mintue converstation, I tried to be okay but I cried. I don't know how I got sucked into it but obviously I didn't follow the advice to "save it when he gets home". It's like his mind is set.

I mentioned the A a coule of times and he wants to make it clear that it's not about her blah blah, the problem was he settled for me when we got back together (yes he did say that when we first got back together and I was just tired of fighting so I was okay with that), that it's like a contract.

He keeps bringing up the "what if" what if 5-7-8 months - a year from now he still feels the same way? I am like well we can't do that what if I get run over tomorrow? Who knows what will happen.

ANyways more FOG talk. Only difference is I didn't cry at the end of the converstaion I feel like I"m taking what he says right now witha grain of salt. He's not thinking rational (made the mistake of tellng him that - said who in their rational mind use money we don't have and instead of visiting his family, or instead of using that on our vehicle...and he admitted he's was thinking com;pletely of himself. I was like well then how can I take this seriously because you are thinking of yourself right now...ugh I shouldn't have said that!) Anyways he said once again he will file at the end of this deployment and I said I think you already established that no need to tell me again. He did say if little things change then no he won't but it's highly likely he will be going to the barracks when he gets home. We talked about me being pregnant and he was getting agitated because he thinks we shouldn't have gotten pregnant so soon - we weren't in the right place financially. I was like well you wanted to have the baby with me at this time last year and to be honest if I wasn't on birth control we would have had her sooner.

I need to reread His Needs her needs, Lovebusters all over again. On the last chapters of SAA.

I finally got a grip of myself and was like divorce is still not an optionn with me and I will do what it takes to save my
marriage, got off the phone to get the kids.

Funny though like I said I know it's just Wayward Fog talk. I know he wil come around. He is hell bent on "proving me wrong" and "being right". I asked him is it more important to be right and he said yes it is very important to be right - told him I'd rather be happy.

Anyways he wants to discuss our relationship now with very phone call just so I can see he won't change his mind. When I start talking about what we need to do he gets angry - I was just saying we need to be sure that no stone gets unturned and we really tried but...

Yea i can see where I went wrong again. I swear I need to have this page up to read everyone's advice all over again.

He even had the audacity to say he's getting bored talking on the phone with me about this.

I had just finished telling him that talking to him is like a brick wall when his mind is made up like this. Talking like this doesn't help we talked all last month and it didn't help- then again he was seeing her.

Okay off to finish my reading....I obviously need to brush up my no lovebuster skills and fulfilling his Emotional needs.

It's really hard to do most of his ENs when he's not here. I have to tell myself he's in the FOg right now, justifying his A with his "don't love you talk, don't care about you talk."

His "honesty" hurts but then again he will say a lot of stupid hurtful things to me right now.

One good note - he did get rid of that extra FB account finally.

Ok, I shouldn't laugh. He is arguing more with himself than with you. He is trying to shed his guilt and shame. Don't help him do it by a discussion. Stewing in his own mental garbage is good for him.

Some expert on here who understands fog babble help this lady out. She needs some canned words she can fire back to help hubby roast upon his own petard.

Larry

STOP THE RELATIONSHIP TALK.
It's like you're trying to sabotage yourself.
Why did you even TELL him you weren't going to talk R talk?
What EN of his does that meet?

Read up on DJs.

Next time he wants to talk R talk (IF he even brings it up... he was probably just angry because you brought it up yourself) then say "I do hear what you're saying...oh! I forgot to tell you, they're putting in a new XYZ store near here, won't that be convenient?" or bring up some activity he loves and how you can't wait to do that w/him when he gets back. Or "I can understand how you'd feel like that/want to know that...oh, by the way, the hedges look great the way you trimmed them before you left. They're filling out great now that it's Spring and the place just looks fantastic. Thank you for doing that."

Change. The. Subject.

If you don't, you get sucked into arguing with him or trying to "educate" him. You can't meet enough ENs to offset those LBs. So don't engage in them.

Don't engage with him dont engage with him don't engage with him...

change the subject.

Writing this down on post it note by the phone so that I can remember when he does call.

I'll be reading the thread Larry thanks.

Trying to educate him does not HELP.

I don't want to sabatoge myself.

You're getting it.
You *were* caught off-guard, after all.
Next time you'll be prepared.

Atta girl, go get 'em tiger, pip pip, etc.

You sneaked in a spelling change on your name, too, didn't you?
Thought we wouldn't notice, eh?

You know, it might not hurt to jot down some crib notes about what you can change the subject TO. Thoughts that come to you off and on during the day/week. Then when he calls and starts trying to bait you, you can just glance at your list and grab some great topic du jour.

I figured I should change the name...it's my usual SN and if anyone got the idea to google it this page could come up.

Good idea about my list..I could start that now.

On the phone now.....?? again???

He's so frustrating

Tried the whole reverse babble

Changed the subject

got him more agitated but that's fine.

He said he wants me off any credit cards he has with me. I told him he doesn't have any credit cards anymore we cancelled them when i paid them off (THANK GOD I DID- learned my lesson from last time). I told him I am on his home depot card but I don't want anything from Home Depot .

He wants seperate bank accounts and I told him we DO have sperate accounts. Told him to make it easier he should just change the passwords to his bank account. I can still pay our bills with our joint, but I wouldn't take me off of his joint because I can't pay the bills and e started saying "who pays the bills b****". I agreed with him and said yes you do pay the bills. and then I changed the subject to the kids.

He got really angry about my fakeness, trying to be all positive.

I asked him if something was wrong because he sounded really agitated and he said you think you have it so hard. I said is something wrong, are they giving you a hard time at work and he said no no one is. I said well I'm here to listen

Everytime I brought up the kids he got mad that I am changing the subject because I dont want to talk about what he wants.

Says he wont call me if I keep interupting him and I told him i really hope you do call the kids like hearing from him, I like hearing from him. They were excited to hear from him (no not realy they barely talked to him for like a minute).

ANyways now he says he won't be coming home from R&R- I said wow that's a big decision to make not even 2 weeks into deployment and we'll see how it goes later. That wasn't really reverse babble talk there was it?

He called because he was just thinking about the next entire year and how he doesn't want it to be like this....I said me neither and changed the subject to bank stuff.

I clearly have more reverse babble reseasrch to do.

Any thoughts?

Takes practice and time and learning.

"I don't want to be like this."

"Good, I don't want you to be like this." dont say either. . .

Larry

He thinks I'm making him into a big joke and that I'm being fake. I aksed him if I should be crying? You don't want to haer me cry anymore on the phone especially when I don't make sense when I cry.

Oh yea he said he won't call in a week and I said I really hope you do call kids and I will love to hear from you and then I said I have to go and hung up.

Oh now he said don't send him anything when I changed the subject to me and the kids senidng him a care package. He said if we do he will just throw it away. I said okay but so far it's just things that you have asked me to send you I think that is important...then he said okay send that but anything else. and that he gave me teh address so the kids can send him letters.

Weird another phone call.

This time he sounded calmer. He called to ask one question- I guess he just got off the phone with his parents. They asked if he was okay and if we were stil fighting, and he said yes. They said something about me going to the command and how I said soemthing about child support....he wanted to know what I told them.

I don't remember telling his mom that (because I talked to her before I talked to my chaplain who told me about the loss of rank) but I may have talked to his dad about the loss of rank and pay. I said how they told me to calm down, but I honestly don't remember saying anything about child suppport because that would be talking about Divorce and I made it clear to both that I don't want a divorce.

He said if I didn't say it then okay i didn't and that he wasn't mad. I asked if he is better because he sounded a lot calmer and he said he calmed down but he's not better.

Asked if he is going to call soon, and I really hope so. Told him to be careful, and get some sleep I know he has a busy schedule, and that I do care about him. And to call us soon. K talk to you later and hung up.

Still reading thread, and taking notes. Decided in order to be effective I can't sound "sarcastic". and a simple "Okay" is enough.

Smiley,

I want you to think about something...You are receiving MULTIPLE calls. In fact you are receiving MORE calls since he said he said he wasn't going to call very much anymore.



He is in Full FOG mode.

YOU ARE NOW IN CONTROL. (Rather, you can be IF you can manage your emotions.) NO RELATIONSHIP TALK & NO INQUIRIES AS TO WHEN HE WILL CALL AGAIN. No revealing what you said to others during EXPOSURE...except to say something like -
We have advised you many times: NO RELATIONSHIP TALK. I am so glad you are trying to follow that.


Here's something which will help keep you calm enough to handle more "surprise" phone calls.

Write out your Plan A here in this thread and read it twice a day until you have it memorized....and even after you have it memorized. Your plan A should have info such as how you're going to meet ENs and eliminate LBs (with examples).

Can you do that Smiley?

Smiley I have to go. My H is actually clamoring for more UA time...Go figure.

Please read all of the advice and support you have in this thread.

We are with you Smiley! You can do this.

I'll check back later if I can.

Yea Chris i can do that...sounds like a good idea.

No asking if he will call soon...got it. I can just say when we are saying good bye hope to hear from you soon.

Thanks Chris...spend time with your H

If reverse babble is more better in Plan B than A, should I continue to try it?

I dunno how you could do reverse babble in Plan B, because Plan B is no contact or talking to WS. You don't have to make reverse babble a full time deal, just hauled out for special occasions when the fog really gets dense or WH gets dense, take your pick.

Larry

Okay he must be UP at this time and online because he did what I suggested and Changed his password to his bank account.

Not only that he changed his security question, email address to another one that I didn't know about. That would be 2 in the last 2 weeks?

I dont know how I feel...like I don't have control over the money anymore he could just transfer when he wants and when he wants unless I get it first...

This is him being vindictive.

He already said he doesn't want me to not have money to pay the bills. I shouldn't jump the the conclusion that he is doing that to me but I'm sorry why the sudden change?

Well whatever I still have POA so I can still see what's going on if I have to request written statements.

Anyways what can I expect this IS his account. I don't need access to his accounts. that's fine. I can access our joint, and with our joint I can pay for the bills that are associated under him. So really...shouldn't be a big deal right?

I'm all kinds of emotions right now. For someone who's had a hard time these last week to take care of this he sure is online right now.

I was just up and reading about Plan A so I can write my plan A....then i get all of these messages to my email addresses that he changed all of these things.

Emotion rollercoaster.....

Plus it was ME who gave him the idea so I shouldn't be mad...

Okay so how should i react when he calls?

let him know that I know he changed it and be happy he listened to my advice. Then drop it. As if it didn't hurt me.

AND noncholantly bring up his new email address...tell him I'm going to forward the kids' weekly updates to that email address too. HOwever we were under the agreement that he only has his work email address...so should I bring that up? that is one of agreements from earlier when I asked him to get rid of his other email. Is it wrong for me to question is this how he plans on keeping in touch with her?

Smiley-

I just read your thread. I think you are doing outstanding! It seems as though your H is deep in the fog still. Is there any way to simplify your communication plan with him? Say a call every three days at a certain time? I just think for yourself, you seem to be totally reactionary with him (understandably so).

Be aware that some time between communications would be good too. It will give you both some time to think.

I don't think you ever notified his commander. Keep in mind that reduction in grade and forfeiture of pay are just a couple of several punishments. He may also get restriction, letter of reprimand or my favorite, extra duty. Depending on his rank will also determine who may impose the punishment. If the commander is aware of the financial issues, he may go with a non-financial route.

If it is your plan to Plan A him while he is away, then read and re-read the carrot and stick of Plan A. There are many things you can do while he is deployed. Remember the hardest part (for me anyway) -- NO EXPECTATIONS.

No I didn't notify his command...my chaplain talked to his chaplain that's over there = got called out in front of everyone and so it seems that everyone that matters knows that something is going on.

Yea there has been some time between phone calls but usually the phone calls have been light, about the kids etc especially int he beginning when he was worried about my health and my stress levels. I really don't know what he's doing now...but I do need time to think and process things.


And yes the plan is to Plan A during deployment and NO R talk over the phone - change the subject.

You are very strong and you are doing the right things. I am so sorry you are in this mess to begin with.

I can't sleep...I"m getting worried as to WHAT he is doing...is he really going to mess around with our money so I can't pay the bills? I mean he SAYS he won't ever do that but he's acting straight out of vengence right now saying and doing thigns to hurt me.

I'm getting really worried and scared. this isn't how this is supposed to be is it? I think he's trying to "get back power and control"

He mentioned before how he could take away my cell phone, and then the cable and how he even said he could mess things up for me badly financially that I won't get any money that he could transfer moeny to another account that I won't know about or obviously get a hold of.

But he did just saytonight he won't take away my ability to pay the bills...sorry I'm just getting worked up and it doesn't help that I"m a month away from giving birh over here. Hormones are all over the place...

He won't do it. He is saying he could do it to try to get some control, which is as you say.

If he does do it, you know the route to fix that.

Larry

I wouldn't bring it up. I'd use that precious phone call time to meet his ENs. What are his top ones?


That would be a big fat DJ. Just say "You agreed to cancel FB and your other email address. When will that happen?" Then move on to less touchy topics.

If he has time to change his bank account password, he has time to cancel his email and FB. I wouldn't tell him that, it's another DJ (you would be criticizing how he chooses to spend his possibly very limited online time). Just keep the knowledge to yourself and use it to realize that he is full on wayward in thought still. That will change, but it does take time.

I, too, find it amusing that he keeps on calling you all the time. He's angry and he's trying to take back some of the power. You can use these frequent interactions to meet his ENs and portray yourself as a very attractive option, or you can talk relationship talk and ensure that as soon as he's free to he'll file for D.

Right now he's angry and trying to demonize you in all his thinking. Don't give him any ammo for that!

He says he doesnt HAVE any ENS that I could meet...But of course this is Wayward fog speak.

Okay so dont bring it up and use this opportunity to meet ENS.

I already established he cancelled his other email address - a hotmail one. I already told him I verified that's true when an email came back to me. And his FB page has been taken down. So saying "you agreed to cancel FB and your other email address" doesn't make sense unless I tell him that I know of his other email address.

So maybe not bring it up at all?

Sorry didn't sleep well at all

Waywards won't tell you their emotional needs. You have to take your knowledge of them to figure it out for now.

Most likely his top ones are sexual fulfillment, recreational companionship, physical attractiveness and you can figure it out best

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html

Even on the phone you can address them. Be flirtatious (SF), talk about cool things you have done and places you are going, talk about new makeup you have worn (a fabulous shimmery lipstick or eye shadow you found) or a new perfume you adore or how you went on a long hike with a friend or joined a gym or so on.

No relationship talk for now. Plant the seeds of love. What would you talk about with a new boyfriend on the phone who was far away for a long time?

These phone calls smack of he and the OW discussing the end of the M... Sounds so much like he is spewing lies..."Our M is done... We are D'ing...I am just taking care of her financially..." and now he is backtracking to try to make his lies true. It is likely he has been telling the OW this all along and she is finding out the truth, so he is catching h*ll from her and having to make it so...

This is a common problem with separation in a M, through deployment or job moves, of making assumptions about your partner when they are not there. Please try not to go there...just stay a step ahead, not 14 steps ahead, it will drive you crazy...

His talk and activity smacks of continued contact with the OW. If he starts to "hurt" you financially you can go to the command and work out a plan that a good portion of his check goes to the joint account, can't you?

Here are some things you can say to him...

"I know you don't love me now, but you did love me once, and you can treat me with kindness now." Or "I am not your enemy, I still love you." or "I will always be the mother of our children and we can talk civilly to each other."

The way I see it is, he has to hate you in order for him to feel OK about the actions he's engaging in. He has to villainize/demonize you in order for him to not feel so badly about hurting you.

I agree when he is being nasty on the phone you can say "Treat me with kindness" or "I am not your enemy, I love you" or "Let's talk civily with each other dear"

The other stuff, I think is not great for sowing seeds of love right now..(my 2 cents on getting the most bang for the buck on long distance plan Aing for him to think of in any future plan B).

I plan on working on my Plan A to write down here and read to keep focus. I do like the "treat me with kindness" lines. He WAS doing that up until Sunday and Monday - Sunday started the R talk and as was yesterday.

NO. That's along the same lines as "When will you call again."

Try something like:

I agree Larry.

Smiley, I thought you went to his Chain of Command. If you had, he would not have had the chance to lock off the $ from you. It's terrible and an obviousl lashing out move because HE doesn't need the $ in the desert whereas you and your kids back home DO.

If he is cutting your access off to the $ you need to get the Chaplain to assist you with getting an allottment started if he can. If he can't, then he needs to tell you how to get that done. You'll need to take care of this asap. This will ensure you and the kids get what you need and it has the added benefit of calming some of your anxieties due to worries about $.

Damn. I do not understand why you would do that.

Those do sound a lot better - because it doesn't hold an expectation that he is going to talk to me.

Precisely.

I am not sure about the "I love you." talk which others have advised. I don't think we're supposed to say that in Plan A. We're supposed to SHOW it.

I haven't gone to Command - the chaplain talking to him in front of everyone was enough for him to stop the A.

I gave him the idea because he was telling me he wanted a seperate bank account. Just told him it's easier for him to change his P/w than to go through the trouble of establishing a new one. The one he does have is connected to our joint account - we have 3 checkings total - one for him, one for me and one joint for bills. Established that during the first deployment so I don't have to account for any "surprise" transactions.

I could stll have acess to it I just need to show my POA and ask them to send me the billing statements. They are currently "paperless' billing.

I wouldn't count on it....he is talking like a man who has taken his A further underground...

FWIW I agree with SHMI.
He's acting extremely foggy.
It *could* be the left-over entitlement of the wayward spouse but I suspect ongoing contact.

No way I can prove that now. I also think he is still angry that he is feeling blackmailed/trapped.

I have to see how the next few days plays out. I dont expect another phone call but he tends to surprise me.

If this does continue then I will go to command, no other choice. Plan is to go to JAG to be sure I do have enough evidence, and find out my rights. I havent gone yet because I didn't hear from him for awhile.

Get accesss to all the accounts. You have to take care of the household.

Please try not to focus on what he may be doing at the moment and what he's going to do as far as if he's going to call you. You'll go MAD.

I agree with turtle, he may still be in contact with OW; however the exposure ruined the fantasy...so it's only natural that he is mad. 10 points for you Smiley!

My Plan A

1) On the phone, I am to not bring up any marriage talk. This will happen when he gets back from deployment. I need to talk about what�s going on with the kids, myself, talk about what�s going on with the baby. I can ask questions about his life there.

If he tries to bring up our marriage, I agree to what he has to say and then change the subject. Ask about food - what did he eat that day. Ask advice for healthy eating for myself. If he continues to try to talk about it, I will remain quiet for at least 15 seconds and say Ok or don�t say anything at all. Then change the subject.

If he continues to be nasty towards me I can say the following

-I know you don�t love me right now, but please treat me with kindness
-I am not your enemy
- We can at least talk civilly towards each other.

I can encourage him to talk to me, be his confidante, and make the 20 minute phone call as comfortable as I can so he can open up if he feels like it.

Communicate in a calm reassuring voice, even when he�s angry with me. No sarcasm.

2) On the phone, I plan to eliminate the Lbs that I�ve been doing - disrespectful judgments, selfish demands and angry outbursts. I need to not react when he provokes me. I am not going to bring up the A or the OW. I will not engage him in a fight (AO) because that�s what he wants from me.

I will learn not to take his babble to heart. Instead I�ll process what he says later in my journal.

I won�t let him know that his actions affect me, especially the hurtful ones. I won�t retaliate in anyway

3) On the phone I will meet the ENS that I can
- admiration: a word of appreciation for something different every time he calls.
- family commitment : bring up something about the kids and how his presence (when he was home) affected the kids (how much they miss him, talk about him conversations I hear about him.
- conversations : develop interests in things he finds interesting/ his favorite topics (UFC, exercise - ask
for advice)
Inform, investigate and understandInform him about my personal interests, activities.
Ask him about his day.
Investigate his feelings, don�t criticize or ridicule
Understand what makes him tick - what makes him angry and avoid talking about it.
- honest and openness-

ENS that I can meet over the mail
- domestic support by sending him things that I think he needs.
- affection by sending him little gifts or snail mail just to let him know I am thinking about him.

ENS I plan to meet
- attractive spouse : plan on working out after the baby is born. Plan on looking nice should we do any go on webcam.
- recreational activities : be his gym partner. Be a frequent visitor to the gym so that when he gets back we can have that in common.
4) Focus on ME
Take better care of myself, my kids and my home
Continue to study the books that I have
- His needs, her needs
- Lovebusters
- Surviving an affair
- fall in love, stay in love

Take care of my Health so I can be a better mom
- drink plenty of water
- take anti depressants if I need to
- exercise (helps with self esteem)
- get plenty of sleep

Do things that will make me happy
Control my emotional outbursts when I do talk with him.

5) Focus on the KIDS
Spend time with each of them
Don�t let my marriage issues take my time away from them (stop obsessing)
Try to have more patience and not yell so much L
Take care of myself to ensure a good labor and delivery

6) Focus on the Future
Know what I want
Be prepared for the worse
Save a nice cushion to be prepared financially

Plan A effective until R&R

Be prepared to do Plan B.

Edits!

Other more experienced vets may see things differently though....

I thought that was reverse babble - agree, don't say much and then change the subject.

I want to add that I will end each conversation on the phone with

"It was great speaking with you"

"I'm glad you called"

"I enjoyed our conversation"

Just printed out a bunch of stuff for me to read, process and absorb. A lot of it was from the Notable Posts sections.

Also printed out my Plan A. Will be making additions/corrections as necessary.

By George, I think she's got it!!

You are getting the hang of it. Keep reading and learning. In the process, it will make you a better YOU regardless of how things turn out.

Yay, Smileygirl!! You can do this!!!

God's Blessings,

Say

Just a thought...rather than agreeing to his comments about the marriage you could try something like

I understand that you feel this way.

Basically acknowledging without agreeing KWIM?

Here's my favorite of what I printed out so far

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/000431.html

Mostly the second post and I think also in the second page.

--

completely different tone of phone call this morning

Talked about stuff at home, made him laugh silly antics my son did yesterday that reminded me of him, told him of my braxton hicks contractions since I was stressing out, just normal talk. Then he was Apologetic, saying nothing is changed but said he just had a bad day and when I was doing my reverse babble he could tell something was wrong and well he got annoyed when I was doing that. He knows he was being mean and he was sorry ,and that this going to be hard for both of us since he has his points and I have mine...he did all of the talking though guys! I said okay. And I also agreed with him by saying we shouldn't make it harder. And I won't try to annoy him when he's mad (got a laugh)

Wont hear from him in 3 days. I expressed my worry about him over there and he assured me.

Did not mentioned the bank thing, nor the other email. I'll just send my kids weekly updates to that email address as well as his army one.

Decided to NOT send him the letter that I did write him on Sunday. I'm going to take advice from that post I just posted up and send him lttle stuff, funny stuff, a card - no talking about R or A or anything.

I read that no matter what if you are a Ws or BS if it's a lovebuster to them then don't don't it. So if I discover that my letters in the mail (not including his care packages) are a lovebuster then I wil stop it.

I have TIME to Plan A. It's like every day I can be like "what can I do today?" It can be working out, doing something fun for myself, make him a batch of cookies, playing a game with my kids, and everything I do will be productive to my Plan A. Plan A is about ME, doing things for me. It doesnt make me happy to do lovebusters especially when I know I'm doing them to the man I love. It will make me happy to show him I do care. Do I want to engage in fights? NO. Do i Want to speak of the A or of our R - no becasue now isn't the time for that.

he even told me to buy something that will make me happy whhen I told him about buying something for the baby when we get extra money He said don't even ask him about buying anything just get what I need. So my money scares were for nothing really. Well they are valid reasons to worry. I do need to educate myself as far as what he can do and what he can't so when he makes these dumb threats I won't stress over them.

Definitely agree with Chris' edits on how you phrase those key statements.

Also, I see your plan meets a lot of ENs that probably are not high on his list. I mean, is family commitment really high on his list? It usually isn't for men. For men it's *usually* SF, RC, and Admiration.

So flirt with him, tell an off-color joke if that's your style.

Admire him - you have that on your list. You might jot down one or two things and keep it by the phone so you won't blank out when he calls.

RC - talk about fun stuff you've been doing, stuff that's going on in the area that you know he'd enjoy and how much you anticipate doing things with him when he gets home. Take a pic of some fun activity and email it to him or print it and send it in a care pkg.

You can exercise now and it will make the delivery and recovery easier. Be sure to get a workout DVD for pregnant women, though, as some exercises shouldn't be done whilst you're expecting.

I think I will wait a bit on SF - it's definately High on his list...I need ideas on how to meet that EN from afar when he's not that into me right now. Maybe in a month, actually was hoping to "surprise" him because I want to hit the gym as soon as I am able to. I want to shed these extra pounds.

I did do some boudair shots from our last deloyment that I finally got but he didn't like them because "it didn't look like me" - he doesn't like me with too much make up.

You sneak stuff in the conversations like

"I have been so horny, I want to _______ you" you fill in the blank with whatever you are comfortable but pushing the usual limits with.

Little comments like that will go towards SF.

Even if you never talked like that before....you can practise, get into it and get better at it.

Wife to Husband. Apart due to military service.

Take it as a personal challenge to meet!

If he makes a comment about how it "isn't you"....tell him this time in the marriage has reawakened your passion for him. How you desire him more that ever.

Flirt with him.
Tell an off-color joke.
Talk about a sex toy you want to try out when he gets home.
Ask him if he'd go shopping with you for some lingerie a few months after the baby comes.
Call him your hunka hunka burnin' love.
Threaten to send him leopard print bikini briefs because he'd look so hot in them; ask him laughingly how that would go over with his squadron.
Tell him you're gonna find a pic of him and make your own pin-up poster until he gets his butt back home and you have the real thing.

FLIRT! What kind of things would you say to a guy you were dating to let him know you thought he was hot stuff?

good suggestions..something for me to think about.

Checking in....doing as much reading as I can about Plan A. It says for women it's usually 3 months, and for men it's usually 6 months.Umm I guess for me it'll a year. Also says 85% of the time Plan B needs to happen after Plan A. He's already talking about the high probablility of him going to the barracks. That's when I do Plan B? Should I wait a couple of months of him home to do Plan B?

I know I should focus on my Plan A.

I also came across the 180 plan. I have the book somewhere but I don't really remember much about it but I do know they are similar.

SG- From what I think, this is very early in the deployment, right? The time-lines are guides, not hard and fast rules. The limits are meant as a protection for the betrayed spouse since none of your needs will be met during that time.

It is very hard to go out of your way to meet the needs of your spouse and receive nothing in return. If you think you can keep it up for the whole time- do it. I would recommend to focus on the future a week at a time. There will be major adjustments when he comes home no matter what.

Yes very early in deployment - just weeks in. One week at a time...each day seems long. Okay I can do that. Thanks.

A good time for moving to Plan B is when you feel your love for him diminishing, but you still have love left. Move to Plan b while you still have love for him but not before it is all gone.
Many folks make the mistake of waiting too long.

And don't think of Plan B as a manipulation to get him to come home, it is a way to wait out the A.

There's no way for me to be sure that the A is over, is there? I can't take his word for it.

What can I do besides ask for his email passwords? I mean if I tell him I KNOW there's contact even though I have no proof and I go to Command and it turns out he isn't contacting her then what? Sorry guess I"m second guessing myself here.

I think you're just going to pretty much have to wait until he gets home. Then you can use the standard snooping methods like GPS on the car, keylogger on the computer, etc.

Do you have access to cellphone records?

Mostly you just need to focus on your Plan A right now. Your plan, and your actions, are the same whether or not there is NC. Except of course if there is contact you'd expose again and go up the chain of command. But all the rest of it - meeting ENs, avoiding LBs... that's all the same.

Sigh - yea you're right. I can't keep trying to see what he is or not doing. I feel like some people who commented about the other day that they suspect continued contact because of the things he is saying just got to me today.

Will be going to Family advocacy on Friday, as to what my counselor wants me to do. Should I go into marriage counseling? Right now I"m seeing a counselor who is here for 6 months and then moves on to another place (to keep up with confidentatiality) and she says she's here for my emotional support and that's it...

I finally got to the point I was tired of snooping and checking up on him. It seemed like I was fighting against him and it was just a game. He was pretending he wanted to work it out, but sneaking around still.

I told him I no longer needed any proof he was cheating, I would assume he was and the burden was on him to prove he WASN'T cheating.

So, you can just assume they are continuing their A, and when he makes sounds to want to come back home with you, then the burden is on him to prove he is faithful...open accounts, passwords, accountable for all his time, allow access to his cellphone and records, etc... When he no longer has anything to hide, he won't. When he still is hiding, he won't share these things with you, simple as that.

Makes life simpler for you...

Meanwhile, do what you can to do the best Plan A, and don't make any assumptions about what he is thinking or feeling...heck, he probably doesn't even know.

Brilliant!!
I don't know that I'd come right out and say I assume he's cheating (it's a DJ and WH might go off in a huff and use that as justification for filing D). But I sure like the idea of letting him know the burden is on him as far as proving the affair is over.

Hi Smiley,

Hope you are doing OK

Still is right. If you do a search on Plan B you'l find that it's designed to protect what love you have left for your spouse after doing Plan A...

Your sitch is deployment though....so it may be a little different.

WIll you consider 1 session with Dr H.?

Found proof he is STiLL in contact with her.

What's my next step?

It depends.

Question: What's the nature of the evidence?

I would wait and see what some of the more experienced members have to say...but I do know this: You keep the evidence & continue to collect any more you find.

Great. What is the evidence? Now you know the reason for his attitude.

Larry

Yes, someone guessed he was still in contact w/OW.

Smiley, was he told by Command to cease and desist?

No he has NOT YET been told by his command

Found her mom's fb page, went through it - saw a common friend whose wall is not private. saw that the OW commented happy bday and then next post WH says happy birthday too

it was his fake name.

Do you think they are actually talking on the phone or via internet?

Larry

Did you ever visit with the Chaplain to find out what the other Chaplain discussed with him, if he can tell you?????

Did you ever get the impression that his direct report has spoken with him or just the Chaplain?

Larry

I don't know Smiley...

I am thinking that having the Command get involved would have been a good thing. The money issue would been taken care of and he would offically be told to cease contact with OW.

What do you think Larry?

I am guessing they are talking on the phone.

No it's confidential. Just that if my husband does not call in a week or 2 then to go let him know.

Didn't Melody say the Command would bust them up?

I agreed with her.

Smiley- please remember the 'no expectations' part. Continue to snoop and Plan A. It was described to me something like this....

Pretend you need to cross a river to get to the other side. Every 'good' thing you are doing is like tossing a pebble in the river. At first, you see no visible signs of hope or change. After time, these small pebbles pile up on top of each other. Eventually they break the surface of the water and then you can cross the river.

It's the cumulative effort of all the small actions piling up that eventually lead to results.

Also, in the process of doing Plan A, you become a better spouse yourself. Avoid lovebusters. Meet his needs as you can. Continue snooping.

Oh yeah, re-consider notifying the chain of command.

Here's my plan so far - talking with my best friend

Next steps

1) copy General POA and send to
- open credit cards
- zales
-home depot
- furniture

Request to close all accounts

2) change cable

- let them know hubby is deployed
Change a password?
Security questions
Change it under my name


3) call JAG make appointment to see them ASAP

- ask for rights
- ask for military protection order for makes him not able to communicate with her
- show my evidence to see if I have enough to go to command
- concerned financially

4) Call Chaplain and let him know he is still in contact even though he says he is not. I have proof.

Could he please talk to his chaplain again and ask him to stop contact once again.

Also let chaplain know he took me off his bank account

concerned about financial matters

It would be nice if the Chaplains could take care of the $ and the NC, but you really should consider official notification of the Command. Your H does not fear the Chaplains. Limbo co-signed the idea...

Larry, Mel - thoughts?

He will call me in 2 days.

I will notify the chaplain and ask again to email the other chaplain. If no change then COMMAND.

he is rightfully scared his career is will go down the drain.

Fantastic plan. What does POA mean? Call me dense.

Larry

5) Call bank
Send Fax with my General POA
Ask for notifications for any withdrawals from his account to be sent to my cell phone
Ask for written statements on his account to be sent to the house

General Power of attorney

Oh, and if you have time, you might want to take a look at pregnantandhurt's thread. You might be able to get her off her duff and work instead of half working and complaining.

Larry

It's like you're keeping things quiet and helping him hide his dirt by having the Chaplains "quietly" handle things.

That is not going to work.

General answer:

An official command letter is the absolute last resort if repeated attempts to handle the situation through unofficial channels does not work. OR if the financial situation needs to be addressed to protect the family.

Official command letters are serious BUT they could be blown off by a command who is more focused on fighting than handling family matters. Escalating to a higher command is always a possibility and that to should be a last resort.

I didn't say don't do it. The research I have done, plus Chaplain's advice, indicates it is a last resort for military reasons and those always trump anything else in the military.

Hmmm. let me say this a different way. Unofficial means attracting the attention of whoever he reports to, who in turn lives in fear that an official letter will end up on command's desk. His direct report is in a position to make life even more uncomfortable for him than an official might.

In other words, unofficial exposure. But if it doesn't work, then official. That make sense?

Larry

He should be scared, but he's not scared enough to end contact. This is the stick part of plan A. Let the consequences of his adulterous actions rest on his shoulders. I would protect yourself by mentioning the financial implications to whomever you speak with.

By the way, it is not necessarily a career ender. It's definitely not a help to his career either. It's a bigger deal for officers than enlisted. I have seen both processed under UCMJ for adultery. A lot depends upon the view of the commander and more importantly, the conduct of the accused before, during and after the non-judicial punishment.

That's exactly why I am waiting to tell command...it's my trump card.

I DON"T want to go to Command. I don't want to lose out financially like I already said before but if i have to I will.

Smiley:

You go girl

And SOL, exactly right.

Larry

Do you guys agree that is evidence that he is still talking to her? That post was made yesterday.

So your WH posts happy bday right after the OW did the same to a mutual friend of the OW's mom?

In my opinion, it is far from no-contact, but I wouldn't actually consider it proof that WH and OW were directly communicating. I certainly wouldn't like it, but I wouldn't say it rises to the level of showing an ongoing relationship. I wouldn't go to the chain of command with just this bit of info. JMHO

No the post was actually made my the OW under I assume her cousins page.

first she put "happy birhtday"
a minute later she put
BJ says happy birthday too

Is there such a prepaid phone card that can tell me what phone calls were made on it?

Trying to figure out WHAT I want to prove there is no contact.

He can still call by the free phones there

As well as he could have gave her his mailing address.

So if I understand:


If BJ is husband, that means they were talking or communicating in some form. Sounds like they were on the phone at the time of the post. So you now own him, it looks like. So much depends on command's attitude if it ever gets that far. So much depends on what Chaplain can do. But with the things you do control, great job!

Thanks for dropping a post to Pregandlost. It was perfect.

Larry

I agree with Larry. I misunderstood the FB messages initially.

I also agree about your excellent post to Pregandlost.

I think me finding that Post was a fluke. There is NO other way I can see if there is contact...she hasn't posted on her cousin's page in the previous month and it just so happened she mentioned my H.

Sooo other than this...I don't know what else.

what else should I ask for
email address passwords
be able to view his bank account
if i can find a phone card that I can monitor his phone calls (which is stupid he can totally get around that too because of his free calls he's been making lately.)

Find out from JAG if it is legal for him to hide his money from you. Until you have more leverage I dunno how you can ask for email passwords, etc. He can always do a yahoo account anyway.

I forget, did you ever find her husband or is she married?

Larry

My WH won't tell me when I asked *(of course not)

haven't heard back from her Mom. obviously did not make a difference did it?

She OBVIOUSLY was because in her Windows Live profile she says she is married, her husband is going to deploy in January but that was 4 years ago. I know it is old because she put her kids ages (18 months for her daughter) and guess what thats the same daughter that was in my son's class.

Trying to figure out my script for when he calls....what do I say?

I have no idea what you can say. I will leave that up to those who are better at what to say.

BUT, let me carry on in another vein. You need to find out about OW husband real bad. You know her last name and where she lives? Can you ask about daughter at school in some innocent fashion? Do you know her full name? Her mom was probably gas lighted.

Get sneaky.

Preg is still in her pity party. Wish she would start working.

Larry

I've been trying believe me..

I know his first name - what my WH gave me awhile back but who knows if it's true.

He's not found in her FB.

Chaplain couldn't find him in WH's brigrade

I used Spokeo (found out about it today) and didn't find anything new on her...

(found very accurate information on myself though and my sister in law...I am worried I should request to take off my information)

Oh Daughter is no longer in same class as my son, they moved. THank goodness.

I put 2 & 2 together it was the same woman when my son told me she moved away too..

What was daughter's full name. ASK, say your son liked her. Say he wanted to send her a valentine's day card but didn't know her last name. Be sneaky. Get son to ask if you can program him to leave you out of it. Erk, "Mom wanted to know."

Larry

Larry

no it's too hard. WH used to tell my son all the time to invite little girl's mome to come over for a playdate. I can see her last name on the school class picture.

Okay, call me dense. Does that mean you have a first name and a last name for mom or dad?

Larry

It means mom and daughter have same last name...


could be that WH gave me another first name but can't find the guy.

Do you know where mom lives? Just trying to help you piece together the stuff. There are birth records. Probably birth for daughter was in mom's town. Maybe.

Larry

I can keep trying but it's most likely I will need a PI.

I'm guessing she is most likely seperated or divorced.

Ok, you don't want to say much online. I got it. Well, you know how to reach me if you think I might be of help. Good night.

Larry

Sorry Larry....had best friend on phone but she finally made me get off with her.

I dont know what else I can do here other than what I have written down.

I want to think of what to say in our 20 minute phone call when he calls me most likely tomorrow night but my mind's jumbled up. I want to see what the chaplain says. I want to go to JAG and just start that process.

Starting to make a list of stuff I could sell if I have to move out. I can request to be moved on base so rent/utilities I don't have to worry about....

Thanks for staying up and trying to help...I think going to her family is a dead end.

Stayed up all night and found a lot.....

got back into his bank account information (that was easy)
got into his gmail account
got into his facebook account
(the one that's been deleted but i reactived)

Printed everything out from the first contact to last.

This A really went fast....went to ILY in less than 2 weeks.

Found out the OW H name

Turns out OW and H are seperated - still married. Apparently he got in trouble for dating even though he's married. my H was telling her that nothing will happen if there was nothing sexual.

Turns out she is going to Basic Training for Army.

Got her phone number (probably changed since she no longer lives here) 2 email addressses.

I have enough proof that this was an affair - that he persued.

I set it up so that his any email address sent to his gmail address is going to be sent to me (email forwarding)

So far no contact in that way since Feb so he could be using another account.

Will continue to dig but now I have to rework my to do list..

Ok it's official I've been up all night. About to wake up my kiddos to take them to school.

Found another email address of his but I know he gave her the gmail one and his army one.

reading their A makes me sick to my stomach

Was hoping Larry would check out my latest post...give me some insight.

Any thing else I haven't thought of guys?

My WH is is rank and promotable.
If this goes down that promotion will be gone but who knows how long they can promote him again.

OH. MY. GOSH.

It must have made you shake with anger and sick to your stomach to read all that, but I am SO GLAD you persevered. You did amazing sleuth work!! I know it must have been terrible reading that in the middle of the night with the world asleep. Things are always better in the light of day.

If you can Plan A him on the phone then do that. If not, I'd tell him I'm super sick and throwing up and can he call some other time. Just don't let on that HE is why you're feeling so sick.

GREAT job on printing all that stuff out.

I would contact OW's husband, even though they are "separated". It's real hard to know exactly what that word means. Maybe he's looking for a D, maybe he wants to fight for his M. You cant' believe anything except what OW's H tells you himself.

I would also escalate somehow within the ranks. I don't know if you should go to the chaplain again or someone else... not sure how all that works. So make sure you talk to folks with military savvy on that front.

And I would do another NUCLEAR exposure. To WH's family, especially. Don't reveal your sources, or how you know, or exactly what you know. Just that you have learned that their affair has continued, unabated, and you ask for their support of your marriage. Ask if they have any advice (some of it will suck, but ask anyway).

What a long night it must have been for you.

I"m pretty sure that the OW H and OW are seperating. I mean if she is telling my H about his dating life...about getting in trouble for dating even though he's married.

Kept my BF on the phone until 4am my time while she read things that he wrote.

Seriously this contact started Feb 11 and by march 11 they are talking about marriage and a BABY! Ugh

I know when he and I were dating it was pretty much like the same except I married him in the end= there was no wife & kids in the picture. It was pretty much a whirlwind.

Debating if I should notify OW mom again. I don't even know if she say the "proof" that I did send her.

Either I let him know over the phone that I know there has been contact or let the chaplain over there tell him.

By that time I would have gone to legal, and then tomorrow the command. I would like to give him LAST chance to stop this however.

Don't tell your husband anything right now!!! Your job is to Plan A him. I know it will be hard but please keep mum about this to him. You never warn them that you're going to expose and you certainly don't give up your sources.

Your husband follows his infatuations around. And gets in trouble because of it, more evidence that infatuations die sooner or later.


What does that mean?

Nothing lost by telling mom again. By all means mention that you are pregnant. "You are fighting for your marriage in the face of what is always a temporary and dead end affair infatuation." She may be wise enough to understand that and go to work helping you AND of course, her daughter from making a big mistake.

Larry

Wow, Smiley.

You are a supersleuth.

What are you thinking of doing now that you have all of this?

Collect your information. Be armed. Never reveal your sources to him. Know your legal grounds. I don't think I would confront husband until you have one more session with Chaplain and get his advice, which he is trained to give, in terms of a military reaction.

Warning your husband is the same thing as playing the trump card. Except it gives him time to spin and prepare. He may already have done so, "She is crazy jealous, don't worry about it Sarge." Get your ducks in a row before you start shooting your bullets.

Larry

Going to follow my Plan that I described earlier

-Call chaplain right now
- call JAG see if they can see me right away
- close accounts that I can

plan a him until he hears from chaplain over there

go to command

FORGOT TO ADD

found out he started another bank account - not sure if it's checking or not but he did it the day I told him to change the password

I made it so that if he wanted to change the password to his bank account it is going to ask for a temporary password that is either sent to my email address or my cell phone.

Also made notifications to my cell phone of any deposits or any withddrawals over a dollar.

What does that mean?

Larry [/quote

I was talking about the OW H - OW was telling my WH that her H was getting in trouble with the Army for dating even though he is married.

I saw that after my first DDAY (when I discovered they have been talking) they still talked to each other

saw each other at school at pick up
went out to lunch (macaroni grill I've never been but he took her there)
went to the movies
he went with her to court

Reading it made me sick to my stomach.

How was he getting in trouble? Details please if you know.

THAT is important from husband's POV. He would believe her since he is infatuated. WOW! Great find.

That might also indicate that her husband is an officer. Officers get in more trouble than enlisted ranks for adultery.

Larry

[quote=_Larry
Collect your information. Be armed. Never reveal your sources to him. Know your legal grounds. I don't think I would confront husband until you have one more session with Chaplain and get his advice, which he is trained to give, in terms of a military reaction.

Warning your husband is the same thing as playing the trump card. Except it gives him time to spin and prepare. He may already have done so, "She is crazy jealous, don't worry about it Sarge." Get your ducks in a row before you start shooting your bullets.

Larry [/quote]

Great job. Stay calm and remember, you are working on NO SLEEP. That tends to make your thinking a little fuzzy. Slow down a sec and think everything through before you start making calls. You are doing great.

EXPOSE NOW! What are you waiting for?

I wouldn't talk to the Chaplain until after you have talked with JAG and/or command. You have already given him a second chance...are you going to give him a third, fourth, fifth...?

Yes this will hurt you financially, but your M is worth it. And make sure you tell everyone involved you still love your H and want to stay M. Explain the reason you are doing this is to break up the A, not to hurt him...

Who are you talking about? OW H? No he's definately not an officer.

Mine isn't an officer either

No, the details of how he was getting in trouble if you know.

Larry

Okay going to JAG first...calling now.

Ok can't schedule an appointment until tomorrow and my appointment will be for next week. I could walk in but the attornies will not be there all afternoon and was told many people will be turned away.

Sigh fine.

They do have an information brief about divorce and seperation at 2. I could go there and get that information except my kids get off at 3.

I could take a much needed nap and then head on to family advocacy, as my counselor keeps suggesting.

I could see if anyone could get my kids so could go to that brief. But really there is no one...I do have a back up sitter. I could take them out of school and drop them off there so I can make it.

Decided to talk to chaplain first, seek his advice even though we know what's it going to be...

I won't ask him to email his chaplain yet though.

He pretty much said what I thought he would say.

Said don't expect the command to do much of anything to him because they have other priorities.

Can't stop him from calling her no matter what.

Can't stop him from emailing her

Can't stop her from sending him things

Since this is a cycle that we've been going through then maybe I need to think about what I really want to do here, because otherwise I would keep finding stuff and nothing is going to happen to him.

Sounds like there is no trust here even though things have been going well the last couple of weeks and yet I still try to find stuff (I told him only started to look for stuff when he started talking about taking me off his bank).

I have not yet asked him to email my WH chaplain yet..I told him I haven't decided yet if I want to do that. I asked if I decided to could I call him again and he said yes or email him.

Didn't seem to care that I found out her name, that she is in Basic Training for the Army, or that I even had the right name for the OW H - says there is no one by that last name in his brigade so not worried about it.

This is why you need to go to command-- in person and in writing with a copy to THEIR commander (or whoever so they can't trash it). The Army I know (my son's in the Army) doesn't tolerate open adultery. Your chaplain sounds very lazy.

He said it would probably be harsher if he was stateside but snce he is deployed they just have other matters on hand.

He said from his experience being deployed himself that seems to be the trend over there.

I do plan on calling the Rear D First and arrange a meeting with him. DO you mean a copy of their adultery to THEIR command as well?

Just like your WH told OW that you guys were separating?

I wouldn't believe it until I heard it from OW's H himself.

Looks like even my horoscopes are telling me to wait a little before dropping this bomb on him.

My horoscope for today
An opportunity presents itself that seems too great to pass up -- but you should still walk away from it. There are hidden risks that are almost sure to trip you up and for now you need to stay on track.

And another

"A situation or problem could by quite curious to you today, Virgo. Expect this to be something that defies analysis: stay objective and use your reason to break things down into smaller parts which are easier to deal with. Possibly, from that view, you can see how each component affects the other. You may be a specialist or expert, but you may be tempted today to manipulate others for personal gain. Just don't do it. It will only begin a cycle that drives you further from others, or causes you to disrespect yourself"

I have to wait anyways I want to go to JAG/Legal and I have to wait until next week....

BTW I just saw a study that while Cancers are more likley than any other to sign to cheat, Virgos are the most loyal..

Thought that was interesting too.

True, but if they are seperated her going to Basic training, her kids with her moms and H not in the picture, then it's most likely true...

Smiley,

It seems to me that the folks here who have saved their Marriages after an affair did a full blown nuclear exposure. For you & your H this seems to mean exposing to the Command since the Chaplain way has not resulted in NC for your H & the OW.

I'll defer to the comments the more experienced posted made / make though...Just thought I'd share my thoughts with you.

What!!!! This from a chaplain??? Your H is committing adultery, you check to see if he is telling you the truth about anything, find out he is still committing adultery and YOU have a trust issue???

Can you afford one session with the Harleys? Honestly Smiley, you need to quit reading horoscopes and do something positive to save your M. Have you read any of the threads where BS "decided" not to do nuclear exposure against the advice of posters and ended up in A limbo forever. (Shtoop comes to mind).

Just because adultery is the status quo in todays society, even with some clergy doesn't mean that you have to endure it. You have found a place that saves Ms. Don't cherry pick advice at this point. Please!!!

God's Blessings,

Say

If she has enlisted in the Army, I'd say that you could make her life hell on earth. That is another trump card for you, but proceed carefully. In the meantime, gather as much information as you can.

Try www.zabasearch.com. Enter her name and her state. If you can't find a male name with the same address as her, go to the bottom of the page where it says something like "Can't find OW?" Click on that, and you'll get an intellius page with a list of people with her name...AND the name of the people in the same household. You might be able to find her husband's name on that. If you do, then go back to the zabasearch page and input his name/state to find an address...and maybe a phone number for him.

Smiley:

I have followed your thread from day one. You have made amazing strides in a short period of time and I see signs you are continuing to move forward with the learning process. Yea, you backslide from time to time, we all do.

Your Chaplain has shared the reality of what happens in a deployed area with your type of situation. And the other military types have also shared with you that getting his direct enlisted boss on him is better even than Command, if that is possible. You hold Command letter as your trump card and I believe that is a good thing.

But don't hesitate to use it if you need to, your decision.

Meantime, you have worked to expose as much as possible and are digging to find more ways. Keep on digging and doing. You don't have a normal situation. Husband is deployed, he doesn't work down the street at X company. He isn't doing a fellow worker. The OW and her husband are hard to track down. You are still in information gathering mode and that is good as well. I hope your JAG session gives you more options.

One of the good things I have sensed is that husband is feeling the noose tighten.

Looks good to me, keep on keeping on.

Larry

Got back from family advocacy meeting.

Got a lot of referrals but here's what it is.

If my WH decides to tell me that he's going to take money away from me, he can't do that. The bare minimum he is going to entitled me is BAH, a little under 900. It's up to him - but if I have a written agreement with him or a court order it could be more or even less just depends.

I need to get a job for security

Get information from JAG as far as my rights

Basically get my ducks in a row before I go to Command, to be ready for the financial blows.

Plan to move from our home to something smaller, sell our furniture, and get used to another way of living and adjusting to live beneath your means, get another job. If I have to sell the vehicles and get one that's completely paid off.

Basially Plan A him, while I'm getting all this stuff done.

I know it's not a typical situation. YES I do have to wait in Plan A for a long time - Plan A long distance is HARD - actually almost impossible I have read other people's thread that have tried it.

In the meantime I can continue the monitor what I can, gather more proof even though he has told me there has been no contact

-I can log onto his FB page and see her profile adn see if she posts anything about him -if so then print THAT out as proof w/o either of them knowing because he has "deactivated it" (I reactived it, changed the email and password and deactivated it again so that only I can activate it.)

- I currently have access to his gmail account w/o actually having to sign in (I had the mail forwarded to my account)

- Any deposits and withdrawals to his checking account I will get notified by text message

WHen I do move (most likely over the summer) I dont plan on telling him.

In a way I"m preparing myself and saving as much money as I can. If he DOES get out of this fog GREAT if not hten at least I am preparing myself for divorce.

I"m sorry if it seems as if I"m dragging my feet on the exposure to my DH's command. Who is to say what Command will do anyways? I do want to and still plan to expose however I need to do be sure I'm okay financially, emotionally, etc.

I could really use the support here guys. Thanks.

You have my support Smiley

I think you're smart to get things in order prior to Exposing to the Command (if that's what it comes down to.)

I wanted to add that just because other people described Plan A long distance as difficult doesn't mean it's impossible. You have made so much progress so quickly, if anyone can do it - you can. Take another look at the suggestions which came up in the military room.

smiley

Its a plan!

You know you have my support.

Larry

When making and following a plan, it's good to keep this old saying in mind: "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst."

That means to take care of yourself so that you'll be OK, no matter what.

Getting your ducks in a row is good. Once that's done, then you can take the necessary action.

Call me all hormonal and emotional for *tearing up* but this has been so hard on me - looking at these kids and knowing he's actually thinking about throwing us away for an infaution, real love for an idea/fantasy....I know he's so lost in the fog and I have to be his lighthouse home when he has finally hit rock bottom.

It's hard to be strong all the time. I can't believe I'm breaking down in front of my kids like this but I'm so so tired.

Ok that's enough of my pity party. Thanks for your support Chris, Lady Clueless and Larry and anyone else out there reading. I am going to need it. I can't wait to read my thread a YEAR FROM NOW AND SAY LOOK AT HOW FAR I'VE COME!

Honey, you've already come a long way in a short time, and I'll be delighted to see how far you've come a year from now!

smiley

I just got an update today on what I believe to be the biggest basket case that ever hit this forum, who hung in there past a few posts. Never mind who it is. She is just as happy as a clam at high tide. She is loved and cherished to an extent that she never dreamed about in her entire life. It took time, but omg, is she doing great.

It is my opinion that is where you are headed. And you were not nearly as bad off as that other lady was at the get go.

Larry

Smiley:

Bingo, I finally found it. I am no good at searching on this site for reasons that baffle me. I can find anything with Yahoo or Google, but here, no.

I found it by accident. We use to have a man here going by the name of mortarman. He knew everything there was to know about the official part of adultery in the military. There was one post he did that explained it all. It is the second one down in the thread I want you to go read:

mortarman

Larry

[tj]

Larry (and anyone else), I've found the best way to search this site is to use Google, for example, I want to search for "Plan B" on the site:

"Plan B" site:www.marriagebuilders.com

If I want to search the forums for the Anatomy of Adultery thread:

"Anatomy" "Adultery" site:forum.marriagebuilder.com

The lists can be lengthy, but the target is usually found on the first result page.

[/tj]

Fred.

May I quote you on the posting thread?

Larry

Smiley:

Suggestion: Print out mortarman's explanation and show it to the Chaplain and ask him about it. Perhaps things have changed since mortarman's days. Or show it at JAG interview.

Larry

Larry, you need not ask. But thank you for your consideration.

Unfortunately infidelity is a fact of life here...seems like the attitude is "we don't see anything, just don't get caught".

Walking into family advocacy today, my advisor said he hears the same story 20 times in one day......everyday! That is just so so sad.

Reading his post I really really wish he is still around so we can see if going to IG is still a possibility..I mean I have NOT heard about doing that at all during any of the many people that I have went to this last few weeks.

I just realized I missed up on his FB.

I blocked her from his account, and then tried to unblock her and now i have to friend request her again. UGh...why did I block her int he first place??? Darnit!

What was true back then is still true today!

For some reason, some soldiers like to keep their spouses in the dark about some things - almost isolate them. THe best defense is knowledge...that's what I've been hearing almost this entire time when I go to to someone.

Just finished reading 2 people's stories w/ their WH in the Army and CO did nothing. Both just stopped posting though, but last posts indicated that their WH were still in an A after they got back from deployment. I wish they come here and update because they were back in 2005 and I want to know what they did.

THis is what I will be doing tonight. My friend says I should do it with him on the phone but I don't think it's a good idea. I dont want him yelling and making things worse.

No, you don't do it with him on the phone.

This is not the time to focus on him facing his consequences and being shown the fall out. It is about informing your children of the environment that they are now in and how they can count on you and lean on you to get through it. It is confusing for them and they need to know you are reliable to turn to.

Your WH will naturally have consequences with time from them knowing. They will love him but be less sure of his integrity as a man. That will be plenty for them to work out over the years.

Truth is important for them though so they are not trying to guess the situation and coming up with worse case scenarios (themselves perhaps to blame for the issues they observe over time).

Smiley, it might be a bit early to talk to the kids, or not depending on how much they are tuned in. And kids are ALWAYS tuned in to their home dynamics. And they process what they hear and feel at their own emotional, age driven, level.

It is surely to early to talk to husband about it.

Ask JAG if IG still gets into adultery. If they do, that is a way more potent trump card than a letter to command. Mortarman pulled NO punches. He laid it on the line, chapter and verse with his posts on that thread as did others. What he had to say is worth printing and showing to Chaplain. Mortarman attacks the culture of adultery in the military from within the culture of the military and he is totally and fundamentally accurate when he holds up adultery against Duty, Honor, Country.

Larry

Thanks for that Fred...I have had the darndest time searching for specifics in the forum.

Smiley, I meant the thread which had suggestions on how to do ENs long distance.

Larry,

Can't she contact IG herself? It seems to me that the Command's JAG would still be "under" the overall Command. Maybe she will not want to alert them to her thoughts about IG beforehand.

Just brainstorming here...

My friend suggested I place an annoymous call to IG myself and ask.

I just got back from my counselor appointment and then a psychiatrist appointment. I feel better after my psych appt and I will be meeting with him every Friday.

I'm wondering now if I should open up so much with him...like if I tell him I went to my psych appt he could spin it and tell everyone that I'm crazy. I am going to use some of the education benefits that I signed up for a while back and get certified as a dental receptionist. My original intent was to be a dental hygenist or get a degree in business admin but it's just going to take too long. WOndering if I should even tell him this ...he might think I'm moving on.

Anyways I am feeling a lot better after my pysch appointment, can't explain why. I feel like he can really help me, and not just be a sounding board like I've been using my friends and counselor for.

Anyways tonight is the night I will tell the kids. I do worry about them because they have seen us fighting, have been exposed to the OW (he's talked to them about it according to what I read in his messages but they thought he was joking), and they just know something is wrong.

I am looking into geting them into counseling as well...I know the Army has something for them.

I expect to hear from him today and will be as normal as I can be.

Smiley,

I always feel better after a session with my counselor

Don't mention it to your H though...

Remember to re-read the plan you posted here to prep yourself for when he calls...

Yea, don't tell him anything he can use against you. All that talk will come way later. I thought about an anonymous call to IG, they probably get them all the time. So I went to their site and looked at their mission statement. Looks like it covers adultery without actually saying it does.

Wish mortarman were here. With all the deployments that have been ongoing for years, adultery has become epidemic in the military.

Larry

I went through three or four deplyments - in succession...and not once did cheating on my H while he was off defending the nation cross my mind.

Prior to getting married, I served in the military. I never responded to any firting from married men or men who I knew had girlfriends.

WH called.

Told him it was so great to hear from him, let him talk to the kids. Then told him I was proud of him (said the Col. noticed him and wants him to work for him...I said well of course I know how you work so hard and this happens every time you deploy you really are the best at your job - and I can't wait to share with the kids). He however said that would be funny if I went to the command because this guy would be the one to take away his rank. Brought up good memories - like how he would play wrestle with the kids.
Brought up good stuff, maybe a little bad because I expressed a little worry about his mom not coming down after all. He got a little mad saying I'm this far along and I cant just wait for an email I should just call his mom. I said I will, we already discussed the time frame I just wanted to know what exact day if she knew already.

Anyways I did say I saw my counselor and that was all, asked why and said just was stressing out over everything. Kept the stress talk vague.

It was really good to hear from him.

I did say I would like to request for no contact with this other person. He said why, what makes you think I am. I said I shouldn't have demanded the no contact I want to just change the way I said it. He said well I know the consequences on the kids if I do so you don't have to worry about it.

Said it was really good to hear from him and talk to him soon.

Sat down and talked to my kids about what's going on. Followed what was suggested above. My son piped up and said he knew who it was and told me that my WH told him once he loves her. My daughter said she overheard him. My daughter cried and I assured her as much as I could. I told them they can talk to me anytime they want. I plan on have my DD see a counselor and she agrees to it. Talked to my DD alone for a bit longer than my DS. But overall it was a good talk - so funny how resilient they are though not walking around sad but playing.

DD is 7, DS is 5 youngest is 3. one on the way.

Didnt see the update to not tell him about my pysch appt - I just told him I saw my counselor.

Forgot about the Plan A I wrote down. Was working on the other half of Plan A. I'll print out both stuff down now. I thought i did already..

With the Col talk, he is telling you he fears the letter but isn't sure it will hurt him all that much. He also knows the Col and am sure he has seen similar deals with other guys/gals when the Col got the letter. So who knows. . .


I haven't a clue what you just said

Larry

LOl i know that didn't make sense to me either. I just know if I demand something from him he would want to do it more...but then again it's a boundary...so idk i should have thought of that comment through. I thought i did.

Yea I think he was telling me about the Col. in his way of saying the letter may not have a big effect on him since the COl likes him so much. I really don't know.

smilygirl - I just have to say that if the affair was exposed to the Col, something would happen. I don't care how much the Col likes hubby. You are throwing away much needed ammunition by not exposing to his command.

Yeah he says he knows what it would do to his kids if he continues contact, and he knows, but doesn't give a [censored].

I feel almost like he is blackmailing you.

I know...I need to also gather more proof there is contact while I prepare myself financially for the repucussions. I just have that one little post from her on her sister's page....it's proof enough to ME but one can argue it's not enough.

I don't feel like he is blackmailing as much as gaslighting. He is kind of calling your bluff. My WH did the same thing with some of his co-workers and even told me about it. He came home one day before I got the actual phone call and said, "Some girls at work told me they were going to call you and tell you how I act at work. I told them to go ahead, that you kno0w ME and you know everything." Well, one of them finally did call and I wish I could thank them personally and tell them that they are a friend to M. I don't even know this person and I have never met this person before but they wanted me to know the truth. For that I am grateful. They had to actually go through with it though.

I believe that when your WH tells you that you should just go to command, he is trying to gage if you have already gone or if you are planning on going. Then he tells you that he is well-liked by the Col. so it won't matter(just in case you WERE thinking about it).

JMVHO

I just saw that Melody advised you to go to the command several weeks ago. That is what you MUST do. Otherwise the affair won't end.

I forget what branch he is in, but the military won't tolerate affairs. You can let the CO know your circumstances and that a reduction in pay would be a hardship.

But better that than ending up divorced.

Smiley, I believe that you truly believed your WH when he told you that he was ending his A. That is what I remember from the time when you didn't go to Command. IMVHO, that was a mistake. Not one that can't be rectified. It is still your call but I am on the full blown EXPOSURE bandwagon and I always have been.

Smiley:

You have taken the unofficial route to his immediate command through the Chaplain. That can be effective and it was to a certain extent. Unfortunately, it seems as if that has driven the affair more underground. That happens sometimes.

Now your choice is a letter to Command, and may or may not be effective according to the Chaplain, or through the IG per Mortarman's directives. Based on what mortarman posted, IG route is way more effective than a letter to command for the reasons he detailed.

It is your choice to make. I vote for IG route and if that is a dead end, a letter to Command. Call his bluff.

believer, you might want to click on the link if you haven't already. Mortarman was an IG and he appeared to be very informed on adultery and IG investigations and very specific in his advice.

His key point was that Command would be told what to do. This leaves very little wiggle room for Command to blow it off.

Larry

Is a letter to Command the same as me going in to talk to someone? or do I actually write a letter and send it? I don't get it...sorry all I have is a phone number for the 2 people in charge.

I know where I have to go to fully expose but I have to prepare myself financially...planning on moving to smaller place, sell my stuff just so we can make it especially if he gets vindictive and gives us the bare minimum on what he is required to give us.I doubt he would do that but better be prepared than not and find myself in financial peril. I thought that was also part of Plan A - make sure financially you are safe. I know I read that advice somewhere on the board.

Please dont think I am ignoring advice to go to Command...I'm taking all the steps that I have to prepare. I wish it could be as swift as a typical exposure but it's just not at this situation.

Posted a question at a military law forum about my situation and they said infidelity is hard to prove - basically my proof needs pictures or a confession from one of the offfending parties.

Also said that the military are in 2 wars right now, and my marriage isn't going to be a high on their priority list - advised me to get a divorce. Told them not interested in divorce. I will see what Jag says when I go to my appointment.

I've been pretty much getting thet same thing from everyone I talked to - the Army is going to protect their soldier not the dependent/wife. So unless this A affects his conduct at his job more likely nothing will happen......not saying this is going to happen but just saying what I keep hearing. I hate it too guys maybe it would have be different if he wasn't deployed.

Doesnt mean I won't plan on going. I wish I had more PROOF that the A is still going on.

Plus another person (well more than one) questioned how could I monitor him when he's all the way there? He could just easily open up another email account, another FB account. It would go deeper underground. Truth is I can't control him, spy, snoop....not in anymore ways than I have been.

Calling and complaining isn't the same thing as writing a letter with details. All of the military posts I read said letter.

You can talk to IG. For direct to command, find out the address from the phone number you have. You also need to have the Name and Rank of Command.

Larry

Reminder. Go read mortarman's post on the IG. They apparently have the power to not only investigate but also to have really higher command to direct lower command what to do. Maybe it has changed since he posted. I don't know. You have nothing to lose by talking to them.

Larry

Smiley-I don't think that you need evidence of continued contact to take to IG/Command. You haven't exposed any affair to them yet right? What I mean is that you have evidence that you found approx 17 days ago when you first started posting here. Even if you think that NOTHING will happen to him while he is deployed, you still need to expose.

He may never come home to you. You have to be prepared for that. The advice people are given about getting their finances in order during Plan A is because they are usually moving to Plan B. You are not, YET. There is never a time when someone tells a poster to get their finances in order before EXPOSURE. Exposure is the first of many steps. You need to expose.

I don't remember, did you expose to your family and friends, WH's family and friends, OW's family and friends yet? These are all part of exposure.

I was going to actually call and request a meeting. Not call and tell over the phone.

WH parents, OW FB friends, and OW mom have been exposed.

I really wish someone could understand what I keep saying...

I need to talk to SH to see what he says.

I have an appointment at JAG, and if I have to go to IG that same day I'll go and ask. Things may have changed...wish I knew for sure. I did read his post and remember I was thinking about placing an anonymous call and asking someone...it wouldn't hurt to just ask.

Thinking about going to church tomorrow. It'll be my first time in a very long time.

You are in an unusual situation that is almost unique as it is military. Most folks are both home all the time, etc.

Do a phone call, do a meeting, whatever, Just keep on finding out what you need to know. Then make a decision based on what you know instead of what you guess.

Larry

Thanks larry - needed to hear that.

Had a discussion with him the other night. Unfortunately had an AO at least twice. got upset and told him I'm going to talk to him later and hung up. he called me back and asked me why did I do that and i said I couldn't talk to him- he said if I'm going to hang up on him everytime I get upset then why bother calling (which is true I realized later that was a definate AO. I wasn't trying to talk about the R but he was and he pulled me into it. I REACTED when I should have taken a breathe and then act. I remained quiet when I could but he goad me into it.

Anyways out of that conversation here's what came out
- he knows I went in the trash to find his plane ticket that he ripped up
- says he is required to take R&R and will be going to his parents in Tx than home to me.
as in he's not going to see his newborn daughter, who would be about 4-5 months. or even his kids even though he says they are the more important tahn anything. Another LB - DJ. As soon as those words came out of my mouth I knew it. But I got real upset at that.
- mentioned he sleeps about 2 hours a night and then can't sleep because he's thinking about our relationship
- he lost 10 lbs since he's arrived there
- not eating as much as he should
- doesn't have anyone to talk to over there about this
told him to go to the chaplain since he already pretty much knows the situation but he said he doesn't want to bother that man with his problems.

I don't know if he's trying to make me feel guilty by telling me the last 4 things. I don't know really.

I waited to see if he was going to call last night before I posted this but he didn't. Any thoughts?

Hi SG!

Took me a while to catch up on your thread... I started at the beginning and skipped some of the posts in the middle, then read the last 3 pages...

First off, I think you are doing a GREAT job here! I know how stressful deployments are on the family members that are left behind and that your job is MUCH tougher than most people realize... so thank you for YOUR service!

Ok, Let me see if I've got the facts straigth:

- You found definite proof of your H's A a couple of weeks ago.
- You've exposed to H's parents an OW via Face Book
- You've talked with your Chaplain and he's basically given you information that if you "expose" that it will hurt you financially...
- You have a meeting with the JAG this coming week to discuss your financial and legal rights.
- H knows that you are preparing to send a letter to his Cdr.
- You have been trying to Plan-A as best you can.

Now, a little about me so you'll know where I'm coming from...

- Mrs. RIF and I married young (I was 23 and she was 18)
- Had a new baby girl right after we got to our first duty station overseas.
- Mrs. RIF had multiple A's during our first 3 years of M.
- I knew about one, suspected another, but had no clue that there were at least five more.
- We never dealt with the "first" A. Just buried it and acted like it never happened.
- Mrs. RIF confessed to the other A's in Dec 2000.
- I deployed to Kosov in Sep 2001. Tried to "rebuild" while deployed...
- Found MB in May 2002. Got serious about rebuilding and have been rebuilding ever since.
- Deployed to OEF in 04-05
- Deployed to OEF in 07-08
- Retired from the USAR in 08
- Currently deployed to OIF 09-10 as a DOD civilian

You'll note that I never exposed Mrs. RIF's A's to my C-of-C... so I don't have any first hand experience on what might or might not happen if you expose. Looking back, I do believe that if I had exposed the suspected A, that it might have prevented the other five..... but then again, that's just hind-sight and I really don't know what it would have done.

I'm not familiary with the IG, but I do know that most units that deploy have a rear detachment commander that is in constant contact with the forward command element... So, my thought is that you talk with the JAG and get your financial and legal advice wrapped up, then write a letter to the commander. Let some of the good folks here that have experience with exposure letters help you edit it... then make an appointment to go see the rear detachment commander and present the letter to him/her.... and when you give them your letter, also let them know that you're providing a copy to the IG of your post and that you trust that they will do whatever it takes to help you save your marriage.

I can almost assure you that you WILL get some action from the C-of-C!

As for the consequences for your H, I don't think that you have anything to worry about. For one, in order to prove adultery under the UCMJ, there has to either be a confession, or photos of the act. Very few military members are punished for adultery from what I've seen over 25 years in the military... they usually get in trouble for lying or falsifying an official document.

Exposing your H to his C-of-C is not enough grounds for the command to court martial him or even for an Article 15 (non-judicial punishment)... what they will most likely do is counsel him and place a strict no-contact order on him. And yes, it will be hard to enforce, but trust me, if they DO catch him breaking it, they will come down on him with both boots!

Once you expose, you need to do your best Plan-A that you can. It's hard to do over the phone/email/skype, but it can be done. Lots of care packages, lots of notes and cards, pictures of the kids, anything that will keep him connecte to the family will help.

Try not to put too much stock in his "threats" such as him going home to his parents for his R&R... he's just lashing out at you to see if he can push any of your buttons...

Please let us know how you're doing and I'll be sure to check back here...

Semper Fi!

RIF

Pretty much got it all there. few more things
-WH already verfied the A.
-Exposed to OW FB page, from there exposed to her Mom (didn't help)
-Chaplain that's with him had a "talk" with him, which made him do no contact with the OW
-came upon one source that tells me NC has been broken/gone more underground
- met with family advocacy - said same thing chaplain said..
-exposed to my kids who pretty much knew about it
- don't think WH really thinks I will go to Command


I'm definately going to talk to JAG tomorrow morning. I'll let everyone know how that goes. Thanks for reading up on my thread...I've been reading up on your past threads and found them to be very helpful especially to my situation.

WH called twice today. both were pretty short phone calls, less than 10 mins but happy he called us twice.

First one we were out and about, but he told me he was mad at something at work. I asked him to tell me and I agreed with him, he does deserve to be promoted instead of the other guy...told him he really does deserve it (only giving it to the other guy because of seniority not because he's the best guy for the job) and that I am sure that the higher ups will see that. Hopefully that was an EN but not sure....Anyways he was on his way to go to sleep so I said it was great hearing from you.

So happy he called and left us a message on our voicemail.I requested he do that awhile back so that when we miss him we could still hear his voice...happy he remembered. I need to remember to thank him for that next phone call.

He called the second time and he got to talk to the kiddos. Asked if he got enough sleep but he said not really just tossed and turned. Told him I'll be sending him another pillow, more fluffy lol. Tried to keep it light. Had to get off so he can go to work, but I thanked him for calling and being able to talk to the kids.

Still have a long way to go...

Realized I won't be able to go to my appointment after all....kids are off from school as it turns out. I have to reschedule sometime this week.

You did just fine. I noticed that RIF posted to you earlier. Hope you will heed his advice, he is one of the experts here and haven't seen him posting for over a year.

Smiley- I think agreeing with him about the promotion fills his need for admiration and in a way affection. Great job. You are a natural at this Plan A stuff. Keep it up. I also agree that RIF's post was excellent.

RIF did a great job, as always. Looks as if there is a glimmer of light at the end of the looooooon tunnel. Not a train. Good job with the Plan A and the promotion deal.

Larry

Hi SG,



This is good! I read most of the discussion here regarding the Chaplain, and I will agree, that most of the Chaplains are NOT equipped to handle this sort of thing. Having said that, your Unit Chaplian can STILL be a great resource for you, especially if he is in contact with your H's Chaplain downrange.

I would also caution you to NOT let your H know about this web site just yet or what your screen name is. You will be getting advice on how to protect your M and you don't want to "show your hand" to him just yet.

Talk with your Chaplain and see if he can recommend some good resources for your H to study... perhaps he and the other Chaplain can sort of "tag team" with both of you during the deploment. The Harley books would be a great place to start. (thus the caution about sharing your screen name above).

I would still follow through with the JAG visit and the letter to the Cdr... again, post it here (with names deleted) so some of the 'experts' can help you.

You sound like you've got this long-distance-Plan-A thing down pat!!! If your H starts talking about "relationship" stuff, just tell him that you love him and that you'll do whatever it takes to fight for your marriage WITH HIM... and then leave it at that. Then move on to how nice the weather is or some other "non-relationship" topic.

Semper Fi!

RIF

Notice it's only and always about him? His needs, his wants, and what he does and doesn't do. One day, your going to be free of it. Whether the marriage is saved or not.

Thanks for the encouragement on my Plan A. I only have a 20 minute window each call (could be shorter or longer) so I am trying to remember that.

While I'm preparing for my letter, I do hesitate because I feel like I need more solid proof that there's continued contact.

What are my reasons to go to command right now? All I want them to do is stop contact. I can't ensure that at all....he can always open up another yahoo address I won't know about, or open up another facebook page with another alias. I'm not trying to be difficult here but it's the truth.

WH is not ready to rebuild the marriage so I'm sure any talks about reading material won't go well. I can definately do that down the line when I feel like he is back on board plus you're right he could check out the website and I lose out on this valuable resource for me.

My plan is to go to JAG, get my answers, see if there's any more proof while I'm saving up money for the financial repucussions of me going to Commannd. As in what if we can't afford rent, or to pay our bills....I need to be sure we are financially set. I am sorry if that seems more like Plan B than anything but right now it's better than me jumping the gun and going to Command and then later find myself in financial peril.

About to call the bank to get information on his other account. I really hope its not attached to anyone else. I had to wait until Monday to see if my POA that I sent to my bank has gone through.

I really hope this week is a good week...

I know...that's true. Maybe he feels it's always what I want. Anyways, he's currently caught up in his selfishness. Deep down he knows he's in the wrong but he feels the A is justified because he's unhappy.

Okay, I think you missing the point about going to command. You aren't trying to get them to ensure NC. That would be impossible. You are going to command as part of your EXPOSURE step. Command may/may not put pressure on the affair. That's what exposure is about. Putting PRESSURE on the affair. It sometimes works in ending the affair. All you are doing is telling EVERYONE that could put pressure on the affair about their "lurv story". You may have missed why people were suggesting that you go to command. Just wanted to make sure you understood it. Exposure is part of the stick part of Plan A.

OK, this may not be a popular idea right now, but here it goes.

I say hold off on exposure right now. There is a good chance that OW is out of contact with WH because of boot camp, now is the time to really get the most out of these phone calls.

There is also a good chance they are planning to meet when she gets out of boot camp (hence the "visit" to his parents house). Next time he talks about that, mention perhaps you can visit too in TX and feel out his reaction. If it is angry, you know what he is planning. You can let him know that an R and R visit that doesn't include visiting his kids will encourage you to think he is seeing OW. And if that is the case then you will have to report him as having continued contact. See how that goes over.

Since you only have 20 minutes, think of the time you have together as just a few minutes in a day. It takes about 6 or more phone calls to = a day, so time, recovery, his confusion, is going to seem to last longer.

The good thing about this time is...if she is in boot camp, and out of contact with WH, he will probably peek out of the fog. That is why I suggest no exposure right now, time to use this time wisely, an angry WH will waste these next few weeks you have.

BUT, if he continues with contact after...then you are ready...

Hi SG,



Very valid feelings right now. SG, please try to focus on the facts and NOT your feelings here. You've listed some facts in your statement above:

Fact - You can't ensure no contact
Fact - You can't control him or his actions
Fact - You can only control your actions

You have a fear that if you expose to his C-of-C, that you and your kids will end up on the short end of the financial stick... this too is a valid feeling and you are wise to meet with the JAG...

Fact - There has to be a confession or physical proof of intercourse in order to prove adultery under the UCMJ.
Fact - Service members are required to provide for their family members during a deployment. Talk with the JAG and they will verify.
Fact - Based on what I've seen from over 7 years on the MB website, Exposure works just about every time!

The letter to the Commander is another tool in exposing the A to the light of day. I suspect that once your H knows that his C-of-C knows, it will most likely do two things:

1 - He will be angry! (no surprise there, right?)
2 - He will eventually get over his anger, then work very hard to "soldier back"

Based on your comments about his performance and how he likes words or affirmation, I bet that he respects his C-of-C... and I bet that he will take this (no contact) as a mission to show his chain of that he is worthy of their respect.

Why would you NOT enlist the C-of-C to help your H end this affair?

You can search and search for additional "proof", but in the end, you already know that he was involved in an A.

The exposure letter to the Cdr isn't a "list" of his sins, it should be a request for the Cdr's help in saving your M.

Just some thoughts... I hope you are doing well today!

Semper Fi,

RIF

Had to reschedule my appointment to JAG today and only time they make appointments for the week is Fridays. So I have to wait until Friday to make another appointment.

The only proof I have of a sexual encounter is what they wrote about in the Facebook messages. No pictures, no confessions.


According to what family advocacy told me, he is required by the military to give me BAH - doesn't matter how many dependents I have. Based on his rank, this amount is $894. This is IT. It is up to him to give me more, or if we have had a written agreement or if the courts order him to provide more.

So yes I am a bit apprehensive to go to command. Not because of my feelings.

I'm not sure if she is in bootcamp at the moment...last time I was able to look at her facebook (before I blocked her) she was talking about how she burnt the popcorn. My friend said when her husband was in bootcamp they didn't have the luxury to go online or eat popcorn so that didn't make sense to my friend. I wish I could still view her page but I can't.

I know going to C-of-C is my goal to ask them for help to save my M. I just want to be sure I'm doing the right now.



Is it not wise to save some money? Is it not wise to get prepared should we have to move? Actually I was already thinking about moving after the baby comes. I have 3 weeks left before I'm due, maybe less because I won't do anything when my MIL is here and she is supposed to be here on the 25th.

Only reason why he stopped contact was because of he knew I was serious about going to command. I need more proof that's there's been contact.

Thanks again for reading my thread and helping me out here. Again, I do plan on going to Command. I just need time...

Just got notice that my WH changed his password and email address on his bank account. he had called and asked me if I messed with his account a couple of days ago. Told him I didn't but I did. Unfortunately my POA hasnt gone through yet with my bank so I can't find out what other bank account he has.

I really need to stop focusing on what he's doing, things I can't control and focus on what I can.

Also that told me he's on the phone and he's not calling me...if he can call the bank then who else is he calling?

Hi SG,



I know that you are angry and hurt, but IMHO, it's always best to be honest with each other... lying to him will just make things more difficult between you and won't solve anything.

One of the difficulties with e-mail and short phone calls is the tendency to "read into" what the other person is doing. I can tell you from my own personal experience, that your mind will almost ALWAYS think of the most negative outcome possible.

Try and relax and not think about "what if"... remember, you can't control his actions.

Please think about what I said about being honest with each other... I know it's hard, but lying to each other will only continue to hurt your M...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Just got a really good phone call from him - talked about 40 mins! It almost seems normal.

He said he does care about me, will always worry and no matter what we'll be a part of each other's lives and he doesn't want me to think he hates me. He knows things are not good between us now but he's really sorry he's putting me through this. I cried a little bit, and he keeps telling me to relax and take care of myself. I told him that I know me and the kids would be fine without him but I'd rather be with him. He kept telling me to calm down so I changed the subject then.

shared some info about the kids, my mom, the bank stuff, how one of his soldiers contacted me for his mailing info..he told me about his benching competition - I expressed a little bit of surprise and a lot of admiration because he's never done that before. I told him about an act of kindness from my mom's group have shown me by surprising me with some gifts (including a gift card and a promise of a night out just tell them when)I cried again, and he said I deserve it I"m a good person.

Sucks I have to question his motives (like is he being nice to me so I don't got to his command?) but over all it's a good conversation.

I just read what RIF wrote and Yes it's true! Your mind does read into what was said into something negative.

I know that's so hypocritical of me to not be honest when all i want from him is honesty so I won't lie to him about that anymore...or anything else.

I got notice from my bank that there was a funds transfer from the bank account that I know of to the other one that I am not to know about....

I guess I have to wait until my POA goes throught to see what's going on.

In my opinion:
He's still in the affair.
You should be in Plan A:
Meet ENs
Avoid LBs
Snoop
Expose the A
NO RELATIONSHIP TALK

I SECOND. I had a gut feeling that NC never took place. He was just placating you. He also keeps telling you what he is most afraid of, exposure to command. That is why I keep nudging you that way.

I concur.

Hi SG,



Glad you had a good conversation!!! ...You really don't have to questioning his motives right now.

Fact - You know your H had an A
Fact - You and your H have not had an opportunity to work throuh the issues.
Fact - You can't control your H's actions

For now, it's a pretty safe bet that your H is still in contact with the OW, or at the least still has some feelings for the OW... remember, you can't control his thougts or actions, so projecting your desires on him will just end up in heartache and dissapointment for you.

Your goal with a good Plan-A is to show your H that YOU are much more attractive than the OW. Keeping your H engaged with the kids and the normal "stuff" going on back home will help to reinforce the link to his family and the M.

Continue to focus on taking care of yourself and your kids and protecting your financal interests... If you have a draft letter, I'm sure that you will get some great help in editing it if you share it with us (please remove the names first!).

You're doing great!

Semper Fi,

RIF