Marriage Builders
Posted By: NotMe2 He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 09:29 PM
I have been reading from the forum for several weeks now and I finally have the courage to post myself.
To make a long story short, we had a married 31 year old woman staying at our house because she was unhappy in her marriage. I would go to bed and she and my husband would stay up till early in the morning talking. She was also a role model for my then 17 year old daughter. In November I checked the cell phone and he had 800 texts and 500 calls for the month from her. I hysterically informed him of what I found and told him "her or me". Big mistake, he picked her. It started as an EA but after I confronted it and unknown to me it became a PA. Our daughter started college in Jan. and I have been gone for at least 1 week out of every month since August taking care of my mother who has lung and uterine cancer. These trips and my daughter being gone enabled them to continue the affair. They ended the affair and he moved into an apartment - she is several states away for the time being. He is very nonconfrontational and would rather end the marriage than "fix" it. He told me that he didn't tell me he was unhappy because he "didn't want to hurt me"! HELLO!! So, by having the affair he thought I would leave and he would be free to marry the "love of his life" who by the way is already married to somebody else!! We are seeing a counselor and I have read 2 of Dr. Harley's books. We did the EN forms and it was a joke. He didn't read the directions and told me eveything I did wrong, but not how to meet his needs. That set us back further. We are having very little contact and I can't seem to keep my mouth shut about questions I may have regarding the affair. I know that my questions push him away but when can I ask them? We haven't met each other's EN's for many years, but I do want the marriage to work - for the sake of our kids at the moment. Any takers out there willing to set me straight?
Posted By: _Larry_ Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 09:38 PM

Have you read Surviving an Affair - the book?

Have you read the synopsis here on this site?

That is where you start.

Have you exposed the affair and if so, to who?

Welcome to marriage builders, the club nobody wants to join.

Larry
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 09:38 PM
Notme, have you considered going to a Marriage Builders weekend? It is a several week course that is kicked off with a 2 day weekend seminar. They give you all the questionaires before the weekend and assign you a coach who walks you through the entire program with phone coaching over the next weeks. You would also have daily access to Dr Harley.

If you could swing that weekend, it would be the fastest horse in putting your marriage back together.

Has your H ended all contact with the OW? Is he back home now? Does everybody know about his affair?
Posted By: chrisner Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 09:43 PM
Quote
and he would be free to marry the "love of his life" who by the way is already married to somebody else!!


Does the other woman's husband have a clue about this adultery?
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 09:45 PM
I have read Surviving an Affair and it the affair has been exposed to both families. They are not in contact and no he is not back home. We can't afford the weekend, but I am contemplating a phone conference (after I save up!). Our counselor is helping, but I am still feeling unwanted, unloved, and unrepairable. Is it really possible to "get it back together?"
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 09:47 PM
He does. I told him of the EA last fall, but he didn't believe me. He informed me of the PA because she forgot to sign off of her email and he followed it.
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 09:51 PM
Unfortunately (it's all unfortunate!) I had befriended her and she in turn mentored our daughter. She is everything I'm not - Young, energetic, cute, silly, and of course "the other woman". I am struggling with "moving on" so we can work on us.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 10:04 PM
Notme, why won't he move back home? Will he come home?

In order for this program to work, you both need to be spending 20+ hours per week of undivided attention, meeting these top 4 needs: sex, conversation, affection, and recreational companionship. Check out this thread:

thread about undivided attention
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 10:09 PM
He keeps telling me that he doesn't want to close his "window of opportunity". He isn't sure that he wants to stay in the marriage and if he comes home he will be "trapped" again.

We have started talking a little, we hug each other when he leaves, and we did go hiking. We have not had sex. Neither one of us are there yet.
Posted By: mymissy Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 10:15 PM
NotMe2,
I am so sorry you have found your here; but this is the place to be. Listen to what many of the people tell you here. Everyone offers great advice.
Unfortunately your story sounds exactly like mine; and mine is not going so well.
I recommend reading as much information on this website, it has so many free articles and information. Also, get Dr Harley's books and begin reading those.
I found comfort that I wasn't alone (although you feel like you are).
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 10:34 PM
Thank you for your support. It looks like you have been going through this as long as I have! Any length of time is too long! I have been using Dr. Harley's books almost as a Bible. I hope that everything will work out for both of us.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 11:29 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
He keeps telling me that he doesn't want to close his "window of opportunity". He isn't sure that he wants to stay in the marriage and if he comes home he will be "trapped" again.

We have started talking a little, we hug each other when he leaves, and we did go hiking. We have not had sex. Neither one of us are there yet.

This sure does not sound like the affair is over. What makes you think it is over? Have you been in touch with the OW's husband?
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/06/10 11:36 PM
I have been in touch with her husband and she is not living at home right now. She is several states away. He is talking to our Bishop at church and has been told to have no contact and he is also pretty depressed so she isn't around stroking his ego. He says that he doesn't want to do "the right thing" he wants to do what's right for him.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 12:07 AM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
I have been in touch with her husband and she is not living at home right now. She is several states away. He is talking to our Bishop at church and has been told to have no contact and he is also pretty depressed so she isn't around stroking his ego. He says that he doesn't want to do "the right thing" he wants to do what's right for him.

So, they are probably still very active in the affair. THAT is why he doesn't want to come home. That is why she is not home.
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 04:38 AM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
So, they are probably still very active in the affair. THAT is why he doesn't want to come home. That is why she is not home.
Wow Mel, I used to be in awe of your perspicacity. But I read this thread and now it just seems you are stating the obvious.

Have I changed that much?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 04:45 AM
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
So, they are probably still very active in the affair. THAT is why he doesn't want to come home. That is why she is not home.
Wow Mel, I used to be in awe of your perspicacity. But I read this thread and now it just seems you are stating the obvious.

Have I changed that much?

Its amazing how obvious it becomes after reading here for awhile, isn't it? Waywards are so much alike that its downright scary!

Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 10:12 AM
Ok, I hear what you're saying...but, I really don't think so. It all boils down to our religion and they are both afraid of the consequences if they continue the affair. He really doesn't think that I will change (?!) and I'm not sure he will ever meet my needs.

Assuming the affair is over (I know) how do we meet each others needs living apart. Basically I am probably doing plan B and not being the first to contact him. I will talk if he calls, but I try not to instigate any contact. We are both becoming comfortable living apart and this has me worried.

I was doing plan A from Jan. to Feb 14 when I thought that the affair was over. Now I'm just angry and hurt that he didn't get out when he was first discovered. We are definately at opposite ends of the scale when it comes to compatability.
Posted By: Mr_Recon6mo Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 11:02 AM
Please, NotMe2, listen MelodyLane.

And believe me, when a person is in affair, no religion is strong enough to restrain him/her.

Of course they are afraid of the consequences. But your WH absence from home indicates that the affair went more underground. It would be much more complicated to carry on the affair from your home isn't it?

You need to to some snooping in order to get the truth. Start here

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 12:46 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
Ok, I hear what you're saying...but, I really don't think so. It all boils down to our religion and they are both afraid of the consequences if they continue the affair. He really doesn't think that I will change (?!) and I'm not sure he will ever meet my needs.

Wayward spouses are not "afraid" of religion. I am sorry, but that is a ridiculous statement. They just went further underground.

My suggestion would be PLAN B. You are not in Plan B. Read up on it and then go as dark as night. Plan B means NO CONTACT, not just a little contact that is begun with the Plan B letter in Surviving an Affair. Do you have that book?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 12:53 PM
p.s. I would first get the goods on the affair and bring it out into the open. I assure you it has not ended. They just went further underground.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
Ok, I hear what you're saying...but, I really don't think so. It all boils down to our religion and they are both afraid of the consequences if they continue the affair. He really doesn't think that I will change (?!) and I'm not sure he will ever meet my needs.

Assuming the affair is over (I know) how do we meet each others needs living apart. Basically I am probably doing plan B and not being the first to contact him. I will talk if he calls, but I try not to instigate any contact. We are both becoming comfortable living apart and this has me worried.

I was doing plan A from Jan. to Feb 14 when I thought that the affair was over. Now I'm just angry and hurt that he didn't get out when he was first discovered. We are definately at opposite ends of the scale when it comes to compatability.

Here's another voice from the choir - the A is not over. It just relocated. Affairees are not afraid of religion. They sure weren't afraid when they started it, right?
Posted By: Fred_in_VA Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 01:19 PM
NotMe2, let me give you an example of how completely incomprehensible the wayward mind can be.

Recently, my stbxww sent an email to my attorney. In it, she mentioned how "uncomfortable" she was communicating with my designated intermediary, even though the IM was someone I had personally selected.

In my response to her (via the attorney), I replied that I found her perspective mind-boggling, that "she did not find it uncomfortable to engage in extramarital sex with another woman's husband, but somehow found it 'uncomfortable' to communicate with my designated intermediary?"

Do you see my point? The wayward mindset is alien to us. The only way we can comprehend the incomprehensible is by first realizing that it does not follow the same rules we do.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 01:32 PM
FWIW I think the A is still full on as well.

As a side note, I thought perspicacity was illegal in Texas rotflmao
Posted By: markos Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 01:40 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
Ok, I hear what you're saying...but, I really don't think so. It all boils down to our religion and they are both afraid of the consequences if they continue the affair.

Interesting. They were not afraid of the consequences of your religion for beginning the adultery. Yet you believe they will be afraid of the consequences for continuing it. Why is this? Does your religion not have penalties for starting an adultery, only for continuing it?

Are you afraid of the consequences of your religion if you leave your adulterous husband? Because if so, and if your religion is Christian, I just wanted to point out that Jesus Himself says that it is permissible to divorce a spouse for unchastity.

Of course, Jesus never used weasel terms like "affair" and "cheat." When the Son of God spoke, He referred to it as adultery and fornication. Strong words for a despicable act.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 01:55 PM
Originally Posted by turtlehead
As a side note, I thought perspicacity was illegal in Texas rotflmao

Saying that word could get you beat up in some parts of Texas!! TEEF That must be a yankee word for sure! sigh

Originally Posted by markos
Of course, Jesus never used weasel terms like "affair" and "cheat." When the Son of God spoke, He referred to it as adultery and fornication.

rotflmao I love this guy!
Posted By: Linus Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 02:56 PM
Originally Posted by Fred_in_VA
In my response to her (via the attorney), I replied that I found her perspective mind-boggling, that "she did not find it uncomfortable to engage in extramarital sex with another woman's husband, but somehow found it 'uncomfortable' to communicate with my designated intermediary?"
Has to be one of THE BEST lines I've seen on this forum. Great job, Fred!
Posted By: not2fun Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 03:28 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Waywards are so much alike that its downright scary!

Or pathetic, pitiful, distressful, disturbing, unimaginative, uninspiring, and most unimpressive.....

{{{{{Notme}}}}}}}...... Mels right. This affair is so far from "over". Men are NOTORIOUS for not wanting to be alone. Especially wayward men. IF this affair was over he would be trying a bit harder to get back to you...........

Unless you have access to his cell-phone bills, emails, snail mail, and any other means of communication they ARE in contact in one way or another.....

I'm sorry you are here......but considering the circumstances that brought you here, you are in the best place possible.....

I LOVE your name BTW...... wink

Not2fun
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 07:42 PM
I just talked to her husband and he was with her over the weekend. She will be moving back to "work out" her marriage in a few weeks. I have been informing people of the affair and I do have the book. I'll get to work on the real plan B. In the meantime, how do I emotionally get through this?
Posted By: princessmeggy Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
I just talked to her husband and he was with her over the weekend. She will be moving back to "work out" her marriage in a few weeks. I have been informing people of the affair and I do have the book. I'll get to work on the real plan B. In the meantime, how do I emotionally get through this?

OW was with her BH this weekend or with your WH?

"Will be" moving back... sounds like she might be stringing her BH along. We call it cake-eating around here. That, added with the fact that your WH isn't willing to move back home adds up to the affair is still on. I'd be willing to bet there is contact happening somehow.

How do you emotionally get through this? Stick with us for one thing, we'll help you. Come here and vent, cry, scream and yell. We're up for it.

Have you thought about who you will use as your intermediary for Plan B?

Oh, and welcome to MB, the best place to be when your life is turned upside down by adultery.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 08:02 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
I just talked to her husband and he was with her over the weekend. She will be moving back to "work out" her marriage in a few weeks.

If she was serious about "working out" her marriage, she would be HOME. She is not living at home because she is having an ACTIVE AFFAIR with your husband. If you don't believe me, hire a PI. They have just gone further underground.

Quote
I have been informing people of the affair and I do have the book. I'll get to work on the real plan B. In the meantime, how do I emotionally get through this?

Go into plan B.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 08:03 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
I just talked to her husband and he was with her over the weekend. She will be moving back to "work out" her marriage in a few weeks.

Notme, please call him back and tell him that they are still in an affair. This is why she is not home. Don't take my word for it. If you both investigate you will find the affair is still on.
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 08:13 PM
She was with her husband not mine. Her husband doesn't think we should expose the affair with everyone because it would ruin her reputation!! and you think I'm wearing a blindfold!

My husband just told me that he's not sure he wants to stay with me. How can you throw 24 years away without putting forth any effort?
Posted By: Wheels_spinning Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 09:10 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
She was with her husband not mine. Her husband doesn't think we should expose the affair with everyone because it would ruin her reputation!! and you think I'm wearing a blindfold!

My husband just told me that he's not sure he wants to stay with me. How can you throw 24 years away without putting forth any effort?

Is your marriage more important? or OW reputation? She already ruined her reputation, and that is not your fault.

How does telling your family, your WH family, and your WH close friends ruin her reputation? Do they know her from work?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 09:58 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
She was with her husband not mine. Her husband doesn't think we should expose the affair with everyone because it would ruin her reputation!! and you think I'm wearing a blindfold!

My husband just told me that he's not sure he wants to stay with me. How can you throw 24 years away without putting forth any effort?

He is having an affair. That is why he is not sure. Don't take my word for it, though. Just start snooping like a bloodhound. Then you can give the OWH the evidence.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/07/10 10:03 PM
NotMe, the problem here is that both of you BS's are being gullible and allowing the affair to thrive unimpeded. Usually there is ONE BS that has some snap so it is harder for the affair to go underground. You need to be that ONE BS and drive this boat if you want to save your marriage.

The way you can do that is to start snooping like a blood hound and get the goods. Once you get the goods, then expose the affair to everyone on both sides. You can expose where the OWH is too wimpy. YOU can expose to the OW's friends and family.

This pair is so sneaky that I suspect exposure would be ruinous to their affair. They are very afraid of being exposed. You just have to be shrewder than them and catch them at their own game.
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/13/10 11:06 PM
I have been searching for numbers to get ahold of her parents. My husband completely freaked when he looked at my phone records and told me if I contacted anyone he would NEVER come back.

He moved out three weeks ago because he couldn't stand my emotions flaring. Once again he informed me he doesn't want to be married to me.

I have read the books, I understand that the affair is probably still going on, but what's left for me? What will wake him up to all that he is giving up?
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/14/10 04:08 PM
I really need help here. I just called him crying AGAIN. So much for plan B. I just can't believe he won't even give the marriage a try. Am going to the Dr. today for a stronger anti-depressant. All I do is cry anymore. I feel like such a loser.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He had an exit affair - 04/15/10 03:58 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
I have been searching for numbers to get ahold of her parents. My husband completely freaked when he looked at my phone records and told me if I contacted anyone he would NEVER come back.

He is bullying you into keeping his nasty little A a secret because he knows it wouldn't look good for him and quite possibly will cause a lot of upheaval for him. Don't let him do this to you.

He moved out three weeks ago because he couldn't stand my emotions flaring. Once again he informed me he doesn't want to be married to me.

He moved out so he could continue his affair without your interference. Don't let him blame his actions on you.

I have read the books, I understand that the affair is probably still going on, but what's left for me? What will wake him up to all that he is giving up?

Having to be accountable for his actions. As long as this A is allowed to proceed undetected by the people who are important in his life, it will continue. You need to EXPOSE.

Posted By: maritalbliss Re: He had an exit affair - 04/15/10 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
I really need help here. I just called him crying AGAIN. So much for plan B. I just can't believe he won't even give the marriage a try. Am going to the Dr. today for a stronger anti-depressant. All I do is cry anymore. I feel like such a loser.

notme, listen. There is almost a 100% chance that never again will you have something this horrible happen to you. It's that bad. This is all still very new and traumatic to you. Do not beat yourself up, saying you feel like a loser!

Take some time today to do good things for yourself. Get out of the house. Take a walk, even if you feel like you just want to curl up and cry and never see the outside world again. Don't just sit there. Promise me that you'll take a 30 minute walk today, okay?
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/21/10 11:58 PM
Ok, you were ALL right! I found out today that he has a "new" cell phone and they are together. He is furious with me because I have been using all of the LB's and have not been very nice. I have been severly depressed and my med's finally kicked in yesterday and I feel quite pleasant - YAY for modern medicine!!! Ok, now I go completely into plan B? Do I tell him that i don't want to talk to him? What if this convinces him that I'm the angry crazy woman he thinks I am and it's a great excuse for him to get out? Please please respond.
Posted By: reading Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/22/10 12:20 AM
Well.

Once you are in plan B....meaning the love letter/path back home to rebuild the marriage is delivered (after a stellar plan A of not love busting)

You just go dark.

The letter says it all.

He left the house three weeks ago cause he was mad at you for messing around with his great fantasy romance. Not cause you implemented plan B. I don't see where you have implemented it.

So. Perhaps only speak of nice things with him and invite him to do stuff with you without mentioning the affair for a couple weeks (now that you are on meds to help regulate your emotional highs and lows) and then once YOU want to

hand him a beautiful plan B letter, go dark as the night with refocusing on building yourself into a dynamic, thriving person with plans for the future

and wait and see what happens.

Will he come back to rebuild or not. Up to him but you give it your all with the plan.

You can only control you.

Divorce can come another day or not. That is for the future not for now. All his talk of it is based in his stuff he needs to work out on his own.

Suck-ee but true.



Posted By: JustMeandMine Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/22/10 12:46 AM
I agree with reading.

I know it will be hard to be nice to him for about 2 weeks. Believe me, I have been there. It will be the hardest 2 weeks you have yet gone through because you KNOW for certain the truth, but yet you cannot lovebust. Do your best to Plan A him - 14 days - you can do 14 days.

Just do one day at a time.

Read, read, read. The more you know, the better you will be able to pull this off.

WH will be astounded at how nice you are when you don't love bust. Mine was - couldn't believe I was his wife because I was the person he wanted me to be. The problem was he wouldn't let go of OW long enough to "brain-wash" himself back to the marriage (brain-washing is what my WH thought of MB).

Once you have done Plan A to the best of your ability, go dark. VERY, very dark. Plan B is the best place for you to be and you will be thankful to be there. It's hard at first because you miss your spouse, but you will be glad to be away from the craziness.

Keep this in mind, too: If your WH was so unhappy and sure that he wanted out of the marriage, why didn't he just file for D a long time ago? Why did he decide to have an A? I'll tell you why - because you have something he wants, too. He wants to have everything and that's wrong. He can't, but he will unless you take control.

So, read everything you can lay your hands on that Dr. Harley has written. Hit the library and read some other stuff, too. Pay close attention to what the vets here tell you to do. Follow your plan and stay focused.

And when you have your down days (and you will), come here to vent. We will help you. You will find that the number of down days will lessen and you will start to feel better.

Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/22/10 12:47 AM
I haven't read about the plan a letter. Where did I miss that?
Posted By: JustMeandMine Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/22/10 12:57 AM
There is no Plan A letter. Plan A is meeting your WH's needs and not lovebusting.

Plan B has the letter.

Did you see the info about the carrot and stick of Plan A? I will look for those for you.

Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/22/10 01:00 AM
Thank you. I read it once, but have forgotten the details.
Posted By: JustMeandMine Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/22/10 01:09 AM
I just bumped the thread "Carrot and Stick of Plan A (revisited)" for you. You may want to save it to your watched topics so you can access it whenever you want to over the next 14 days. The more you focus yourself during this time, the easier it will be to get through it.

YOU CAN DO THIS!

I did it and it was hard not to lovebust. By the end, I was having trouble avoiding that, but I did my best. If you find yourself lovebusting, you will need to immediately head to Plan B, but try really hard to get through the 14 days. Having a goal and a date when the pain of Plan A will stop really helps.

Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/22/10 01:27 AM
Ok, I have printed it and saved it! He isn't having any contact with me right now. How do I get him to "trust me" and do something together?
Posted By: JustMeandMine Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/22/10 01:50 AM
How long has it been since you have had contact with WH? Aren't you in counseling with him?
Posted By: reading Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/22/10 04:52 AM
At this point, you can simply offer to have him participate in things like

"Going to see the movie _______, wanna come with me?"
"I am making lasagna and garlic bread tonight for dinner, you are invited"
"Remember when we went ice skating and spent the whole night holding hands so we wouldn't fall on our bums, want to go with me tonight"

That kind of thing.

If he says no just say "Well, if you change your mind, let me know" If he says "No way. I hate your guts." You can say "Sorry you feel so crummy. Hope you feel better about life soon."

Etc.

though you know he is sweet talking OW, you don't mention her in regular conversation.

In plan A you can write letters as mentioned in Surviving An Affair which describes that sometimes letters and phone calls are good venues of communication with a wayward who is not wanting to communicate face to face due to the conflict. Different from plan B letters. You can read about communciation with waywards in the book!
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/22/10 10:06 AM
Yes we are in counseling, but he was so angry last time the counselor thought it best for us to have no contact except for one date a week for the next month.

The dates haven't happened, because I have been "crazy" with the dumb depression which acts out in anger and a whole lot of crying.

I will send him an email with an invitation. Cross your fingers!


Posted By: barbiecat Re: He had an exit affair - 04/22/10 12:55 PM
N2M:

Why did your counselor request only one visit a week? Is there an anger/danger issue here?

What are you doing to take care of yourself? Not improve, change, medicate or otherwise alter you... but what are you doing for you? You will not get stronger (nor will your M) unless you find a way to "center".

---the advice here has been top rate.

I hear you about the panic, meds, anger, anxiety and frustraition.

I really hear you.
Originally Posted by notme2
1. How can you throw 24 years away without putting forth any effort?

2. What will wake him up to all that he is giving up?

NotMe2,

IMHO MelodyLane advised Plan B too soon. Especially now that you have the benefits of modern medicine. The questions you asked above need answers.

It is very early. Not in the adultery but in YOUR plan. If the meds are really helping you to avoid love busters, avoid emotional outburts and not fall apart hour by hour (I was there so I know the pain) then you have a great opportunity to do a great Plan A.

And the reason I am shocked by the immediate call for Plan B is because as I understand it an effective Plan B needs a great Plan A before it.

I think Steve Harley would ask you how is your emotional stability and strength? Do you feel able to Plan A your husband and avoid love busters? If you read Sick of Limbo thread you will read Steve Harley advise him that Plan B is really about helping you avoid the emotional trauma of the situation, not to penalize your WH. Plan B is not to cause a wayward to experience anything or do anything although that might be a side effect because of the fact that they saw a great Plan A from you and then overnight poof its gone.

As far as Q1 above: Dr. Harley says we are all vulnerable to adultery. The excitement (really just chemicals in the brain) of adultery is why. Its the result of EN's not being met for years as you said combined with opportunity of another woman living in your house.

Q2: This question is what led me to post all this because I think that what will wake him up is you doing all the things recommended here: Exposure, heavy and hard all over, Plan A whenever you can make desposits in his love bank IN HIS LANGUAGE (see The Five Languages of Love) and then on your timetable your plan your schedule a plan B and or D.

Patience is a virtue. Take stock of your situation, strengths and weaknesses. Remember, you have 24 years with him, you know him inside & out. Use this to your every advantage. Also, she is hundreds of miles away. She will also be very unable to meet most EN's for him.

BUT, on the other hand, if you cannot be in a great plan A or the meds don't really keep you from falling to pieces everytime you talk to him, well then, maybe it is time for plan B.
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/22/10 07:00 PM
Thank you for the advice. OW just happened to reappear and they are back in contact!!! He is coming over tonight to help with yard work and then I am fixing a light dinner. If any of you prays (and I'm sure most of you do), please pray that I can keep my mouth shut and be pleasant and kind. I am actually looking forward to seeing him.

I took off my wedding ring when all of this started and realized this morning that if I really want to be married then I should show him that I put it back on. He isn't wearing his now.

Ok, here goes pleasant and cheerful!

I so appreciate ALL of the comments and knowing that you are there to help me through this. God bless.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: He had an exit affair - 04/22/10 07:04 PM
Have you exposed the renewed contact?
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/22/10 07:07 PM
Yes, but not to him. I'm still gathering information. Her husband and I are doing the legwork to catch them together.

I have told several people to keep an eye out to what's up.
Posted By: turtlehead Re: He had an exit affair - 04/22/10 07:15 PM
No point exposing to him - HE KNOWS he's having an affair.
Exposure to everyone else is good.
Good job on working with OW's H on this.

You are doing everything right.
I'm sorry. I know it hurts.
Posted By: JustMeandMine Re: He had an exit affair - 04/22/10 08:06 PM
You are doing great NotMe2!

I know you can do this today. Please log on later and let us know how it all went. Remember the good things about him and that will help you to be nice, too!

Posted By: reading Re: He had an exit affair - 04/22/10 10:48 PM
Also, marriage counseling with non MB person may cause more problems than it helps right now.

Only interact on once a week date? Not a great suggestion by the counselor. You need to have pleasant contact as much as possible vs avoiding him now.

To plant the seeds of love for when you most likely go dark.

Counselor doesn't seem to be MB savvy and trying to teach them to be isn't your task right now.

I think I would take that couseling time and go on movie or other type of dates if do able for now.

My 2 cents.
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/23/10 12:41 AM
WOOHOO!! I did it! He came over and took care of the lawn and then we had a light dinner. It was somewhat uncomfortable, but we were able to talk about everyday things and our daughter's upcoming wedding in 3 weeks. I didn't bring up anything negative and apologized for my prior weeping and wailing!!

Our counselor is on vacation this week, but I sent my copy of Surviving an affair. Hopefully she will get on board. She had us "take a break" because he was so angry and ready to bolt and I was an emotional wreck. She thought that was the only way he would agree to talk to me again.

Thank you everyone for all of your support. I was feeling left out and then you jumped in. This is becoming my lifeline. Thank you, thank you.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/23/10 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by bigpicture
[
IMHO MelodyLane advised Plan B too soon. Especially now that you have the benefits of modern medicine. The questions you asked above need answers.

It is very early. Not in the adultery but in YOUR plan. If the meds are really helping you to avoid love busters, avoid emotional outburts and not fall apart hour by hour (I was there so I know the pain) then you have a great opportunity to do a great Plan A.

uuhh no, bigpicture. It is NOT "early" - it is late. Her first D-Day was in NOVEMBER so she has been dealing with this for 6 long months. Plan A is only supposed to be for a very short time, 3 to 4 weeks for women BECAUSE they have nervous breakdowns trying to win their husbands back. She is already at that point. Nor is she counseling with Steve.While she has only been in a Plan A for a short time, her FIRST D-Day was in NOVEMBER with numerous d-days since then. She is already on the verge of a NERVOUS BREAKDOWN now and if that happens, the marriage is really done.

Nor are the questions above going to be answered. That is completely irrelevant.

She needs to go dark before she breaks down any more.

The purpose of Plan A is to demonstrate her WILLINGNESS to meet his needs in the future if he ends his affair, that is all. It is not meant to be a way of life. That is all a BS can do when a spouse is in an affair. All she has to do is convey that message while not lovebusting. That is all that is required.

NotMe2, I would not drag this out any longer at all. Maybe a WEEK, tops. You don't want to run yourself into the ground any further. Get out while the getting is good. Here isa quote from Dr Harley about getting into plan B sooner rather than later:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"When a WS refuses to leave the lover, there are no good options for the BS. At first, plan A is recommended because there is a slim hope (15%) that, with encouragement, a WS will make the decision to leave the lover. But 85% don't do that, even when plan A is implemented perfectly.

That leaves two other choices which are both bad. The first is to continue plan A indefinitely, trying to encourage the WS to leave the lover, and the second is to initiate plan B, which is to completely separate from the WS. The problem with a coninuation of plan A is that it usually leads to severe emotional symptoms, including years of post-traumatic stress disorder, even when the WS eventually returns. Many women that I've counseled actually have nervous breakdowns in their effort to draw their WS back to them. Instead of making the BS attractive to the WS, plan A actually makes these poor women so unattractive that it completely eliminates all hope of reconciliation. And 95% of all affairs eventually "die a natural death." If you do absolutely nothing, they usually end.

So I've recommended plan B rather early in the effort to separate the WS from his lover".
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/23/10 01:16 AM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
WOOHOO!! I did it! He came over and took care of the lawn and then we had a light dinner. It was somewhat uncomfortable, but we were able to talk about everyday things and our daughter's upcoming wedding in 3 weeks. I didn't bring up anything negative and apologized for my prior weeping and wailing!!

Good job, Notme!! I would suggest that you start working on your Plan B letter and getting your ducks in a row. Since you have been dealing with this so very long, you don't want to prolong it. Dr. Harley advises 3 to 4 weeks for those who JUST FOUND OUT about the affair and you are here 6 months after the fact.

You can focus on doing a great plan A for about another week and then going as dark as night. Do you have the book Surviving an Affair so you fully understand Plan B?

What is the exposure plan? Did you inform the OWH about the renewed affair? What is the OWH waiting for?
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair - 04/23/10 11:20 AM
We are both gathering more information to prove to them we know they are together.

He has "promised" her he won't tell her family. I am going to buy him the book Surviving an Affair so he understands what I keep telling him.

I think she has told her family not to answer my calls because I can't get ahold of anyone. I don't have a current address for them so I can't send a letter.

I do have the book and I have loaned it to our counselor to read so she understands what I'm doing and hopefully she will jump in.

I did do plan A, but not fully when I first found out. But, it has been an ongoing effort until I found out that it was a pa and then I lost it. So, from Feb. to now I have been a mess - way depressed and not someone he would want to come back to. He has told me that I'm wasting my time because he has never given me the impression that he was coming back.

So, once again, even though last night went ok and I'm proud of myself for staying calm, cool and collected, I still don't feel any hope.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair - 04/23/10 12:29 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
We are both gathering more information to prove to them we know they are together.

He has "promised" her he won't tell her family. I am going to buy him the book Surviving an Affair so he understands what I keep telling him.

I think she has told her family not to answer my calls because I can't get ahold of anyone. I don't have a current address for them so I can't send a letter.

I do have the book and I have loaned it to our counselor to read so she understands what I'm doing and hopefully she will jump in.

I did do plan A, but not fully when I first found out. But, it has been an ongoing effort until I found out that it was a pa and then I lost it. So, from Feb. to now I have been a mess - way depressed and not someone he would want to come back to. He has told me that I'm wasting my time because he has never given me the impression that he was coming back.

NotMe, I understand this. But you should plan to go into Plan B very soon here. You have been dealing with the affair so long that it has already had severe psychological ramifications. That is not going to get better, it is going to get worse. Plan A is not supposed to be dragged out. I wouldn't do this any longer than another week, just long enough to get your ducks in a row. Get out while the getting is good. Your H is engaging in psychological abuse of the worst kind and the faster you remove yourself, the better.

What do you mean you are "gathering more information"? I thought you knew they were together? HOW are you getting this information? Have you hired a PI? What?

This affair will need to be exposed by you to the OW's family since her H is too weak to do it. I would work on getting all their information now so you can do that.
Posted By: JustMeandMine Re: He had an exit affair - 04/23/10 01:02 PM
NotMe2,

I agree with Melody. Don't prolong Plan A much longer (I did it longer than I should have because I didn't have much choice - WH wouldn't leave our home last summer and I had nowhere to go).

If you can get OWH to give you information about OW's family, please do so. If he won't expose her, YOU can. He may have promised not expose her himself, but if you expose and they ask him about it, he can just tell the truth. He is weak in this matter and that is only going to hurt the situation. OWH's in my case was weaker than I was, too.

Make sure you have protected yourself financially, too. Once you go into Plan B, you don't want to break it.

Posted By: Reva Re: He had an exit affair - 04/23/10 01:19 PM
Ok, I hear what you're saying...but, I really don't think so. It all boils down to our religion and they are both afraid of the consequences if they continue the affair.


No, it's not religion. Nothing matters but the affair. not religion, not one's family, not one's livlihood, NOTHING. Think of it as an addiction.

A former collegue of mine had an affair with a married woman. They were both born again Christians and very vocal about moral and family values. They spoke loudly of these values, condemning similar behavior in others. Hypocrites through and through. When the affair was finally revealed to the entire community (because the man involved was a public figure) the woman's church exposed her "sins" to the congregation one Sunday morning. This whore begged for mercy and blamed her affair partner's co-workers (me! and others) because we were all minions of Satan. I never even met this woman and she was blaming me for her affair. Talk about FOG.

My collegue with three children and a loving wife broke off the affair and worked on his marriage (or so it seemed). I found out a year or two later that they had resumed the affair, then he broke it off again and the OW started publicly outing him as lying to her and breaking his promise to her to leave his wife to be with her. And, yes, she was still a "Christian" church-going woman.

In conclusion, religion ain't got nothin' to do with it.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/23/10 01:28 PM
Originally Posted by NotMe2
Ok, you were ALL right! I found out today that he has a "new" cell phone and they are together.

Notme, what did you find out about the affair? What is your evidence and what did you say to the OWH? What was discussed with him?

I have a feeling the OWH is trying to stall you from exposing by saying you need more information. He has "promised" to help her hide her affair, after all. Remember when I told you earlier that you will have to drive the boat here? He is not going to be of any help because he is a wimp.

What evidence of the affair do you have now?
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/23/10 10:14 PM
Ok, lets see if I can get all the answers in. I was in his apartment today and have pictures of a card she sent him and his new cell phone receipt. I know not much, but something.

She is at home with her husband sleeping in his bed when before she was in her own room

We (OWH & I) have not caught them together yet and that is what we are trying to do. I told him I would buy him the book and he said he "may" read it.

I packed up all of his household items and put them in the garage. I informed him last night that it was there to be convenient for him if he needs them. 1st step to plan B.

I am only going to hold out for another week or so, but the meds have brought back my confidence and he is going to see his gorgeous wife having a great time without him. I feel good, I am looking good, and am figuring out that it will be his loss. (Let's hope I can keep these thoughts more than 5 minutes!!)

He is currently supporting both households. I don't have a full time job right now because of my mother and her cancer. I need to be available for her. He is in control of the finances right now, but he is being generous - not extra money, but all the bills are paid.

I will be back on late this evening. Thank you all for your responses. They are really appreciated.
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/24/10 11:49 AM
I have just read Dr. Harley's article on Plan A & B, but since I loaned out my book I don't know what kind of letter I am supposed to write.

Do I tell him that I have proof of his new phone and letter from her? (I was in his apartment and found them) or do I just keep that info. to myself? I think they are trying to keep this an EA, but I know that won't last. We have not caught them together YET!

We did work closely with each other last night helping out at a friends rehearsal dinner. He didn't start any conversation with me, but I did make small comments here and there. I also sent him a text before I went to bed commenting on what a hard worker he is and how much that is appreciated.

The OWH called me last night because he didn't believe his wife was going where she said she was. I was able to tell him that my WH was with me from 5:00 to 10:00pm. After that I don't know.

I found out he is going to the wedding today. He was invited by the groom's dad. Do I try and sit with him or just be happy and nice to him? I am going with another couple.

I want to wow him at this wedding. I bought a new Victoria's Secret bra (probably TMI - too much info - but it helps if you're visual!!) to go with my v-neck chiffon dress and white high heels. I am 5'8" and haven't worn heels since we were married because he is shorter than me. I love heels and am really excited to wear them.

I will be back on this afternoon. Life stays busy - that's a good thing! Any comments and advice is REALLY apprciated.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/24/10 03:16 PM
Here is the letter, NotMe. And I wouldn't suggest saying anything about the card. Do you know when he would have got it?

My Dear Sue,
I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with Greg possible. I foolishly pursued my career without understanding my responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me most, and we are now both suffering for my mistake.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet your needs. But I cannot do that until you end your relationship with Greg once and for all.

Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. I will also not be able to help you financially. Our friends Jane and Paul have agreed to help make arrangements for you to visit the children whenever you would like. But I will not be here when you visit. If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through Jane and Paul.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Greg, and I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing that you are with him. I still love you but I cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from Greg and are willing to follow the measures that were suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us both happy. Then there will never again be a reason for us to separate. I want to be your best friend, someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.

I loved you when we married and I continue to love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you as long as you are seeing Greg.

With my love,
Jon
Send copy of letter to the OP with this note: pg 81
I love Sue with all my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make her happy. I will wait for her to give me that chance.
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/24/10 06:14 PM
Thank you Melody. I will begin my own letter starting tomorrow. I think it will take me a few days to get it right. I may post it here for input - is that allowed?

The letter she sent was dated April 5, 2010, and his new phone was purchased at Walmart on April 16, 2010. He has unlimited everything on it so he can be in contact with her 24/7!
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/24/10 06:43 PM
NotMe, please do post the letter and we will be glad to give you feedback.
Posted By: Scotland Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/24/10 07:02 PM
NotMe-Yes post the letter for feedback, just be sure to remove any real names and places. laugh
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/26/10 04:09 PM
I am so hurt, angry, confused...again! We were together most of the weekend helping out for a friends wedding. He didn't say anything to me unless I talked to him first. Why should I be surprised?!

So, our daughter is getting married in 3 weeks. Do I go into plan B before the wedding or wait until after because we will be in contact with each other?

I feel so hopeless. I really can't see him turning around. He is so convinced that he doesn't love me and isn't putting forth any effort whatsoever. I am not fulfilling any of his emotional needs - I'm doing nothing for him, so why would he want to come back? He isn't communicating with me so that's why I'm not doing things.

I just never really thought I would ever have to deal with something like this. Having a really hard time today.

Has anyone had their spouse move out and actually come home wanting to work on things? I would love to hear some "success"
stories.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/26/10 04:46 PM
NotMe2, have you worked on the Plan B letter? I would also prepare to expose the affair. Since you do have evidence they are still in contact, my suggestion would be to expose the affair wide and far AFTER you go dark with what you have. That way you won't have to listen to the fallout. They will only have each other to lovebust.
Posted By: reading Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/26/10 05:30 PM
I would try hard to stay in plan A until after the wedding.

Aim for looking fabulous and putting lots and lots of effort into stuff that will leave a great impression once you do go to B.

The wedding is so VERY close and dd will have less stress for her big day.
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/26/10 05:46 PM
I am exposing what's going on right now. They are trying to stay apart and just have a telephone affair. The OWH and I are waiting and watching to catch them.

It has been a crazy weekend. I will be starting the Plan B letter tomorrow. I'm writing my thoughts now though.

I will wait until after the wedding to do Plan B.

I was so hoping that he really was in NC and now I'm back to be so disappointed in him. This was a man with the highest integrity and honor and now can't tell the truth if his life depended on it. So sad.

Just wanting to feel some hope.

To answer a question a while back about what I was doing for me, I just joined the YMCA for me and am doing some rearranging/painting at home. Make it comfortable for me.

Did I mention that I really hate this - especially since I thought we were going to be together forever.
Posted By: bigpicture Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/26/10 05:49 PM
NM2,

Patience patience patience. You are in a marathon ok. You went from "Wow this is great" to "OMG I can't cope" again.

Being calm, self-confident and looking great are going to be some of the best ways to re-attract him. That and knowing your plan which MBers can help you put together and give it final touchups.

Look, you can get your plan together for plan B, exposure, etc. but until then you are going to uphold your marriage vows. Your interactions with him should be calm, self confident, smiling, loving, friendly, warm, sincere.

He is your husband that you promised to love through health & sickness for richer or poorer, etc. Well right now you can start to think of him as very sick so much so that he cannot give you anything right now. He's too sick. But you can do this. Be strong and patient. Come here to vent and get support. Be brave and strong through this storm.
Posted By: NotMe2 Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/26/10 05:56 PM
Thank you BP! I need to remember that he is sick. I am really very compassionate and to remember that will help me be kinder to him.

Your right, even thought he is willing to forget the better or worse part, that is what I keep remembering.

Patience and calmness are NOT my virtues, but I will be doing all that I can do implement them.

What did Yoda say, "Do - there is no try!!"

Thanks again everyone.
Posted By: JustMeandMine Re: He had an exit affair...Help! - 04/26/10 07:59 PM
((((NotMe2))))

I know that feeling of hopelessness and it is very depressing. Just know that we all care about you and know what you are going through. It is hard to watch someone you know so well, someone you know to have high morals and integrity, slide down into someone who is a total stranger and whom you never thought could do the things he has done.

And yes, YES - it is possible to turn things around. That's God's job, though, not yours. Your job is to work on you, because that's all you have control over. As much as you want to control WH, you can't. And trying to control him will not help. Try to focus on your DD right now, too. That will help keep your mind occupied.

Focus on preparation for Plan B and remaining as nice as you can. BP is right - WH's have a sickness and it will take time for them to come back from it. Some come back slower than others and some never do recover. However, there are also those that wake up one day and fever is gone! It's like a miracle.

Who knows if your WH or mine will get to recover from the sickness? Only God knows. Keep your spirits up.

Some success stories that were thought be sure cases of D:
Sexy Mama Bear (very inspiring to me) Find the thread called "Now eating my words...update--life with him back home"
Mimi Find the thread "MY GIFT TO YOU-PLEASE LISTEN!!"

Also check out: "*SUCCESS STORIES 2* Be Inspired * Survive * Thrive"

I don't know how to link these stories directly here for you, but at least I know what the titles are!
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