Hey all,

Decided to start that new thread. At this point I think that I can consider myself pretty much recovered. I don't know if we ever truly "get over it" or not, but I'm good, haven't shed tears in months, and most days don't give XWH much thought. In my book, that counts for recovery even if it's an "almost" recovery.

Still trying to juggle a job and my shop which is tough. I am just trying to hang onto the shop until my lease runs out. Only 11 months to go!!! Things have been tough financially though. I've managed to stay on this side of the bankruptcy line, but it still may be the path I have to take. Since XWH had to take my one big credit card, that really helped. And speaking of that, I have a story.

XWH has suddely been coming around the last month or so. He has been to see DD twice in the last month, is here this weekend again and wants to see chaibaby. He took DD to see his apartment, so something is fishy. Either he didn't get M or he did and it's on the rocks. No mention of Miss Mullet. As with most of these things, the D being final rendered the A not much fun anymore, so that pretty much goes with textbook theory.

So he tells DD that "Chai stuck me with a big credit card debt." Excuse me? The judge "stuck" him with credit card debt which was only fair because I had been trying to pay all of the debts on my next to nothing salary. I asked her if he mentioned that I had to give him a huge chunk of my 401K (which was about 3 times bigger than the credit card). She said no. Of course he didn't mention that. Then she says "If you would have just called him when he had the heart attack instead of having your friend call." I looked at her with my jaw dropped. She then said "he wanted you to call not her."

For a while it had me second guessing myself and feeling like I did something wrong, but I soon realized that this is his way of still blaming me for everytihing. I told him in my PBL that as long as he was with her I would never have contact with him, and he was with her when he had the attack. I rest my case.

So this weekend he wanted to see chaibaby, but he won't call the other grandparents because he hates them and wants nothing to do with them (he doesn't even know them) and he won't call me because he wants nothing to do with me either. Sorry about his luck.

Funny, he hates the other grandparents? The ones who care for his grandchild round the clock to keep the little guy out of foster care. He should be kissing their feet. That just shows how screwed up this man has become. Everytime you think he has hit bottom, he finds a new tool to cut through the rock.

Enough about that. Life is good, it's sunny and warm, and I am taking chaibaby to go buy flowers today. He is going to "help" me plant them I'm sure. He helps with lots of stuff around the house. He gives me each garment out of the clothes basket as I fold, he loves to mop the floor with the swiffer, and he picks up everything he can find and gives it to me. He is a very happy little guy who always smiles.

The new baby is due in July and I have no clue what my DD will do. I hope she gives the baby up for adoption into a great home, but I have a feeling it will end up in foster care. Breaks my heart.

Bottom line, I am good, happy again, and loving life for the most part. Dating? No. Not interested. Have had people who want to "fix me up" but still not interested. I like being with just me at this point. XWH totally messed up my life for a good long while, and I will never give anyone that kind of power over my life again.


I had to say the "D" word for the first time last week and it did feel a bit odd. I went to the doctor and they asked my marital status. I realized that it was the first time I actually had to say it. Ouch. I didn't like it a bit, but it is what it is.

SINGLE and lovin' life.....

Hi Chai!

Love the new thread name!

Glad to see your update. You're an inspiration to many lurkers and posters.....far more than you may realize.

Thanks for sharing. Onwards and upwards.

Huggzzzz to you!

Ace

I agree... you are MY inspiration. Looking forward to more hair-raising posts!!!

Somebody call the big-baby-WhaaaaaaaaaMbulance !

Chai, I am sooo glad to hear you are doing good...You deserve it and I truly believe that it is only up for you from here on in. It sounds like [censored] is getting a taste of what is to come for him....at this point you probably dont event care anymore anyway...which is a good thing...

{{{{{{Chai}}}}}},

Well it's about TIME you got this thread going!!!!!....

WxH whining about how mean you are is funny......that he is doing it to your DD is pathetic. And it doesn't surprise me given her own wayward ditch she is inclined to sympathize with him.

Anyway, it good to see ya honey......don't be a stranger even if you are busy with you new wonderful life......

Not2fun

Hi Chai, guess you washed that man right out of your "hair".

Just make sure no matter what you keep those hair appointments.

I remember when I was a newbie reading late into the night your thread.

I have always admired you and consider you my friend. Hugs and blessings.

How old is Chaibaby now? Is he talkin? What's on his mind?

Hi Chai,
It made my day to read your first post in your new thread. Yes, life is full of tribulations, but you still have so much to be thankful for. Enjoy!

Thanks so much guys. Two years ago I could not imagine writing this. Two years ago I thought my life had ended. Heck, two years ago I wanted to end it myself.

Once I stepped aside and let XWH deal with his girlfriend and his messed up life, healing began for me. And guess what? Sounds like he is still dealing with a messed up life. Maybe he's happy where he is. Don't know, don't care.

DD says he will be back next weekend. What? In town 3 out of the 4 weekends this month after being away for 3 years? Sounds like trouble in affairland to me. I've always thought that it was only about winning with Miss Mullet. She just wanted to know that he would actually D for her. Yeah! She won!!!!

On second thought, I think I won. She just doesn't know it yet.

Barbie, little chaibaby is doing great. He is walking all over the place. He is a very sweet, loving little guy. I am so thankful that he hasn't had any major issues. I hope it stays that way. He isn't talking too much. Everything he picks up is a cell phone, so his first word was "hello." Holds everything up to his ear and says "hello." I don't think he knows who his mother is, but he seems to be happy when he sees DD. She is only allowed to see him 1 day per week. It's a sad sitch.

Onward and upward. And the best part?

I CAN GET MY HAIR DONE AS MUCH AS I WANT!!!!!!

Hi Chai, Very brave with the new thread. I know I should start a new one buuuutttt think I will wait.

Some titles "Desperate to kick PP's butt", "Desperate to save me", or just maybe "desperate". LOL...

Can't believe that XH is showing up in your side of town.

You "sound" great Chai, so glad to hear it!

Oh! I remember the "phone" stage! It is so darn cute!

Really lets you know how those little eyes are watching and those little ears are listening to you.

As far as understanding who his parents (mom) are, They had a study posted a few years back that said, basically children who were raised in positive households (foster care/grandparent) have just as much lifelong success as traditional homes.
I remembered this because I always thought everyone needed that "mom/dad adoration" - I know I did, but long term they have found out that stability, respect and basic needs are just as good an indicator of a happy adult.

Just like stability, respect and basic needs are part of MB, I guess.

Hi CL,

It's great to read your update.

As you say, don't know when 'recovery' applies.

....OTOH, �SURVIVORS of an AFFAIR�? FOR SURE!!!!!!

Hugs to you.

Luna

Luna,

Thanks for checking in. Hope you are doing well.

Maybe a little update:

XWH has been coming to town frequently to see DD. In fact, three of the last four weekends. Gone for three years or more and now back. Hmmmm....

He wanted to see chaibaby but wouldn't call me because "he wants nothing to do with that woman" and wouldn't call the other grandparents because he "can't stand them and won't call them to see his own grandchild." Well guess what? Last weekend while I was out of town DD took him (and Miss Mullet) to see chaibaby. Guess he realized that if he wanted to see the baby he had to do it our way.

It was a bit of a trigger for me. Caused a little depression but nothing major. I guess we all wait for the news of a meltdown with the affairage and when it doesn't happen we get depressed.

But, life goes on and I will too. I just keep trying to tell myself that I will be fine, which I will.

Not much other news to tell about. The new job is going well and I am hoping that I can build things up so that it will be full time for me by the time my lease is up on the store. I'm on the last 11 months and counting down. Need to do something different.

Ladies, I am here to amuse you today.

We are BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!

We are engaged in so much good stuff!!!!!!

We are gonna live JUST FINE!

We may like men but we are FINE without one around complicating our lives in undesirable ways.

You are so cute, cinderella....Keep updating us, Chai, I think about you often..I am glad you are doin okay (except for the little trigger) hopefully someday that will not happen to us anymore, but IDK.

Chai! Sooo glad to see you doing well, and starting this new thread. You have been amazing to me since I first discovered your thread so many, many moons ago.

Cannot believe Baby Chai is running around and starting to talk! He is growing up so fast. Glad to hear he is a happy boy. You seem to have come to peace about your DD too--that you cannot "make" her life right. Such a hard thing to do, but you've conquered that too. I am still in awe of you.

Whatever your goofy XWH is up to, I am sure you are doing so much better. Which is only fair.

Good luck with the business--whatever way it goes, you will be fine. You've already dealt with bigger things.

Kudos to you.

((((Chai))))

Right Here Waiting

Is the store doing alright? What'll you do if it starts doing better?

((Chai))

Chai,

So good to read an update from you! Glad to hear the job is going well!

As for hoping for that meltdown in Affairland, remember that you do not know what is really going on in their world (and you don't need to know). We've all seen that more often than not, it's not the wonderful fantasyland we envision. Reality is setting in with the 2 of them even if there are no outward signs of issues.

However, know that I TOTALLY understand where you are coming from with that! Heck, I feel that way about Drac's current Ho, and she was only a contributor to the initial affair, not the actual OW.

The comment made about 'having nothing to do with that woman'. Merely another way to create someone to blame for something and perhaps rekindle the dying embers of the affair atmosphere. The fact that you are no longer engaged in anyway with him disables that ember from catching flame again. Good for YOU!

As you said, he figured out if he wants 'normal' things like seeing his grandchild, he has to play by the rules. That's REALITY.

3 out of 4 weekends to come to town to see DD equates to 3 out of 4 weekends that it's not just the happy couple all alone. Could mean there are issues or maybe not. Either way, he 'should' be involved with his daughter and grandchild's lives.

I understand the hurt of Miss Mullet being with your family like that. Having my kids around current OW is still a bit of a struggle for me. Unfortunately, there's not much we can do about it. The best answer is to continue to be the best example we can to our kids of how a classy, GODDESS lives her life!

You just focus on you. 11 months to go with the shop lease. You should pat yourself on the back, my dear! It wasn't that long ago you were worried of having to shut the doors for good. Now you are able to plan an ending for that part of your life.

You are ALREADY doing different things with new job, new classes, new activities. Personally, although it was such a dream for you, closing of the shop later this year may help bring another bit of closure for you. WXHs involvement and subsequent attacks on that venture would possbily continue to taint that dream for you.

You are already on your way to even bigger and better things.

Take care and keep us posted on how you are doing!!

Hi CL,

Doing some catching up, and happy to read an update from you (although we could already use another one).


Yep, that's how it goes...with news about WS (which is why the less, the better).

Another way though we sometimes contribute to aggravating this type of feeling is best described by Bugs. It has to do with our 'perception' that things are great in affairland....NOT (necessarily)!

I say Bugs is 'right on the money' (thanks Bugs)!




So howsabout another update, CL?

UPDATE:

Chia will always be one incredible classy lady! She is an inspiration to many.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Hope. You made my day.

Hey Luna, I really don't have much of an update. Have been trying to get my life sorted out a bit and trying to concentrate on the new job.

I passed XWH on the road a couple of weeks back. The strange thing was that I was 100 miles from here!! Very weird.

He was with DD again this weekend. DD said she isn't sure why all of the sudden he is in town so much.


From the recovery standpoint, I'm still doing good. A few bad days here and there, but overall good.

Little chaibaby is doing so well. DD is allowed to have him 15 hours a week now. I am not sure what will happen after the new baby is born. Judging from past behavior, she will leave the hospital and go on a binge. I am trying not to think about it now. I have already told child ptotective services that I will not take another baby. If she relapses, this one will go to foster care. Sad. I 've learned not to worry about all of it because I have done all that I can at this point. WH has been coming around, so maybe he will step in and take the new baby.

XWH take the new baby? Can't decide if that's a
or a
or maybe even a

I agree with Bugs...if he's all of a sudden taken an interest in DD and ChaiBaby, something's afoot in Affairland.

Not that it means anything to you, except that the "other shoe" you've been waiting to hear drop might not be so far away. And THAT might just provide "closure." Justice, too.

Apart from all that, it's so good to hear about the GOOD things in your life. You are one remarkable lady.

RTW,

XWH talks big, but has little action. He tells DD that he'll do this, that, and the other thing , but he lies a lot. I'm sure that's no surprise. He has told CPS that he would take chaibaby, but he hasn't knocked on anyone's door to pick him up yet.

Yes, sometimes I think "closure" is what the BS needs. I've felt like I haven't had closure. I guess going into a dark Plan B does that. But, at this point, what more could be said or done? If his A (or affairage) is falling apart it would do my heart good as justice might be served, but at the same time it would be a sad thing. So many sacrifices from so many people for so little to have been gained. In other words - all for nothing.

Anyway, it's onward and hopefully upward.

I don't think there's a BS who can't relate to this, except those who are hopelessly lost in bitterness and crave vengeance.

You're seeing this through objective eyes. Yes, objectively, it's been a total waste.

The truth is beyond that, though. It's a total waste even if he and Miss Mullet remain together, because they are broken people, incapable of a mutually rewarding relationship, whether they live under the same roof or not.

You have evolved so far past that, I doubt you and XWH could have so much as a simple conversation today, even if you wanted to. You don't speak the same language anymore. And that is all to your benefit.

I have thought about that, and I am not sure what I would even say to him if we ran into each other. We have seen each other only 3 times in 3 years, and that was all in court. We have not spoken to each other at all, even in court.

Today would have been our anniversary - 37 years. I'm a little sad about it. I think of everything that has been lost over this whole thing and it makes me sick. We lost probably between $50 - 100K because of selling our house in the bad economy, almost $100K in atty fees between the two of us, and I have lost almost my entire 401K between trying to support myself and then having to give him a big chunk of it. I try not to think about it, but sometimes I can't help it.

I just talked to DD and she says she will be with him again tomorrow, so he's in town again. But, I have to stop letting it get to me.

So, back to focusing on me. I have to stay on the path of personal recovery.

Howdy Chai!

As you and I and many on this forum and around the world know, divorce is a losing game. Nobody wins. I worry about my retirement now. I didn't have much of one yet, but my funds dropped down to about a third of their value in the last two years, not to mention me taking out funds to cover a household on my own. I am down to very little now. That was 10 years worth of saving!!! Sheesh.

There's a guy here at work who is just completing his D and has complained about how much money has been lost. He is still a bit bitter so he also complains about wasting his time staying with his ex. I haven't asked him any details of their breakup. I honestly don't wanna know. Divorce SUX!

I hope you are doing well otherwise. I feel better than I have in a long while. My mind is soooo much healthier. I sleep well at night, very few nightmares anymore, negative thoughts not surpassing the amount of positives I have. I dunno, I just feel better with every passing day.

Hey Chai! Those anniversary dates can be a trigger, but as SL said -



That is a good place to be. Being a bit better with every passing 'anniversary' date, which it seems you are, IS great progress.

It's okay that there are still days that you may not noticeably feel a bit better and others in which you are able to experience great joy. It's called 'life'. And you are living yours!


So, tell us about the new job?! Meeting new folks? Going new places?

Hi Chai,

I know how hard you take those anniversaries. Your pillar of strength is awesome. I wish you would come out here soon so we could spend some fun girlfriend time.

When is the 2nd baby due?

SL, Bugsy,

Just like both of you, I am better with each passing month, but sometimes I start thinking about things and get too caught up in it.

Today DD was with XWH and they took chaibaby to the park, shopping etc. They had a blast and now I have a sick baby tonight. He has been up on and off with a fever, vomiting, diarrhea etc.

It just pi$$es me off. He has been gone for almost 5 years, wasn't here when DD was deep in the addiction and really needed help, wasn't here when chaibaby was a newborn and I really needed help, wasn't here for anything over the last few years, and now he wants to come back be the fun guy.

And again, he takes off and I'm left picking up the pieces. I'm sure they loaded chaibaby up with all kinds of junk food today and didn't let him get a nap.

DD showed me a picture of chaibaby going down the slide with XWH and another one where he was letting chaibaby drive the truck. It was just a big trigger for me.

Maybe I am going through that 6 month emotional milestone that I hear about. It's been six months since court. I was really doing well and it seems like I have relapsed over the last few weeks. I seem to be going through some kind of a resentment phase.

DD made a comment that they won't see him again for a long time, if ever. I don't know what that meant and didn't ask. I am just better not hearing anything about him. GGRRRRR

Queenie, I would love to come out sometime. Once I catch up on bills etc. I will seriously consider it.

OK, going to try to get some sleep before chaibaby wakes up again. Oh, and Queenie, the new baby is due July.

Do NOT and let me repeat, do NOT let DD play you on this emotioinal rollercoaster. I do not know where she is with any type of recovery, but I DO know that she has a history of playing your emotions (both intentionally & unintentionally). Do NOT get in that sand box!!

I've never been one that has put any stock into the 'timelines' of when we are supposed to feel what. I'm sure there is some sort of 'typical' timeline and rhyme/reason to it all. I just have better things to do with my time than to put my feelings/emotions/reactions into that kind of a box. I feel what I feel, when I feel it, and that is difficult enough for me.

Allow yourself to feel what you feel when you feel it and give yourself permission. It's OK!!
Ther is NO *right* or *wrong* here. You get to be YOU and that's the BEST person to be.

I KNOW it hurts to see and hear about them from your kids. DAMN him for leaving you the hardest parts of life. But ya know what? If you were still married,,,,would it be any different? Would *HE* be dealing with DD's issues, or would you? Would he be supportive or would YOU be handling everything?

Would she even really 'care' about him being there or is it a convenient play on your emotions? I just get the feeling that he was absent for a long, long time from both of your lives - even before he left. By your own words, those are some of the deepest of DD's issues.

Honey, the BEST thing you can do for you and for DD is to be YOU. and that YOU is one AMAZING woman and Mother! Stop doubting. Keep believing!

Agree with Bugs.
The mere fact that DD showed you all the pictures from the day shows she is trying to manipulate you. Addicts are all manipulators. Smart addicts, which I suspect your DD is, given her higher education, etc., are even more dangerous. It's so sad for the chaibaby to be pulled around in all this, but you shouldn't get caught up. When is DD's baby #2 due?

Your DD needs to understand that CB it is not a competition, it is a small human being. I agree that she may be doing this to manipulate.
.."See what grandpa does?" and stuff.

Does not DD understand the consequences for you? (when she drags xwh into your life?). She is either dumb as a box 'o rocks, - which I do not beleive- or there is another dynamic going on here.

You may want to consider this, not to trigger about xwh, but the motive behind DD's insistance on telling you about him.


JMHO - I may be way off base, too.

Hey SL,

Yes, for the most part I am getting there. I'm also sleeping better and feel better most days too.
And there are days that I am really quite happy, but like most of us the triggers are still there. You know, the ones that put that dark cloud right over our heads. Man, where do those come from? When they happen, they happen within seconds.

Anyway, XWH is with DD and chaibaby again today. That makes 6 (possibly 7) of the last 8 weekends. Something is suspicious. I doubt Miss Mullet moved here and left her big family. Not happening.

Man, I hate to think all of this destruction was for nothing.

Right now, XWH is in town and throwing around money so the loyalty has shifted. When he doesn't call and doesn't show up, he's a piece of $%^#. And the addict mentality is that you "go" wherever you can "take". DD is a taker, not a giver. And no, she doesn't get it that I don't want to hear anything about him.

It just makes me mad. He wants to waltz back in and be ther hero now that all of the hard work is done.

I found out a little from DD today. Just had to ask. XWH has been here for two months now. Looks like he might have to get a desk job. She says he is having trouble with his hands and legs, and can barely walk. From the sound of it, he may be on disability before too long.

She also said that she felt sorry for him because he had no friends and is lonely. I asked about his good friends in OPs state and she said he doesn't go there anymore. Hmmmm.

So later she told me that he will come to the hospital when the new baby is born, even if I'm there because he will put our "differences" aside. I told her that I don't have any "differences" - he left me for Miss Mullet plain and simple. She said she didn't think that was doing too well and that Miss Mullet doesn't come here much anymore.

All of the past 4 years have resulted in everything being lost for what? Nothing. I'm still not sure if he M her or not, but it looks like maybe not at this point.

So, possibly another A bites the dust after the D is final. Seems like it happens a lot around here. Add me to the stats folks.

I don't have any great words of wisdom like so many have to offer around here. We lost, Chai...in many ways...BUT, thank God...life goes on and if we so choose, we heal along the way. It's not for nothing unless you choose to stay mired in the muck.

You have double trouble with your daughter. She has not one loyal bone in her body right now. She won't until she chooses to seek help. You recognize that...however painful it is.


At a certain point on my path with the Z, I realized that his A's would end, especially when he no longer had me to fuel them. And they did. I was more concerned with the fact that I wanted us to change, HIM to change...didn't happen. A or not, he was still a destructive human...and I wanted nothing of it. To this day, he will not shoulder the responsibility for his own choices. He wants me to be the scapegoat. So sad, really. What a maroon!

Despite the things the Z did, to me, to our family (no longer OUR family), my life is good. Getting out of that house was one of the best things I did. My life is looking up, and revenge is now the last thing on my mind. Life has it's own way of exacting that, in ways I never could...so I leave it to the powers that be to teach the Z what he needs to know...

Take care of you, Chai, cuz you matter.

At least you have your health!

Karma seems to be kicking his butt in that department.

He is sick, aging, and lonely, and has no one now, as it were, to help him.

I'm a vengeful sort, and I'd go if only to ask if it was worth it.

Yeah... Was it worth it?

That's the age-old question. And would they admit it if it wasn't?

Seems these waywards get to the point where they are SOOOO far down the wrong road that it's easier to keep going. See where it ends instead of stopping and driving back. Who knows? Maybe there's something better just around the bend.

And waywards do not seem to want to ask for directions. They will continue because they don't see the cliff ahead.... until it's too late.

Stay strong, my friend. If you get one of those "can we talk" phone calls, wait.

I just wish for ONCE I read about a wayward that puts on the brakes, makes a u-turn, and heads home FOR GOOD.

Honey, it happens all the time....look at all the people on here in Recovery. It had to start with the wayward applying the brakes and making a big ol' U-turn......

{{{{Chai, SL, Holy, and girls}}}}},

I can't imagine the road you all are one but please remember this..... You moral character, strength, perserverance and beauty are such an inspiration to me, and I'm sure others. I've "watched" you grow into such remarkable women that I knew then and now, no matter what my H ever does I want to stay on the right side of the road!!!!

Instead of what you lost, remember all that you have gained........self-respect, which I learned is the most important ingrediant to a ful-filling life......


.......to you all!!!!!!

Not

{{{{{CHAI}}}}}}, As usual the BS comes out on top, Chai you can walk with your head held high and no regrets about trying to save your M (I know we have "what ifs" but theyre not justified). You have your dignity and integrity. And the more time goes on, the more important those become. Now we know why they sleep well at night, they supress it and it always comes out somehow, in the end (your WHs health).

Chai, when I came on this board yours was one of the threads that I followed.

In spite of the XH's descent into the mullet's den of muck, you maintained your spirt, your dignity and most your grace.

Their lifestyle is right out of Pinochioo and a perfect analogy of a wayward.

They get caught up in the "good life" and head out to "Pleasure Island" where everything goes. No rules, no one to tell them what to do, fun, games, no boundaries.

They are not changed overnight till their "jack#[censored] behavior" builds up and then the transformation begins. They become what they are -- donkeys. These braying fools are really symbolic of stupidity and ignornance.

They prance around in their donkey bodies (aliens?) braying louder and louder and no one understands them anymore because they have lost all human tendancies including their own voice.

The OP (henchmen, cat and fox) have rendered them helpless and can use them for whatever they want and continue to ride them till they move on.

What brought the waywards so much "happiness" initially at Pleasure Island is now a source of new unhappiness. Now that they are transformed into true jack&asses they act up again and kick, destroy, and hate all the attractions that brought them to Pleasure Island.

Since the life expectancy of a donkey is less than half of the human race they burn themselves out quick.

Only the waywards can get themselves out of Pleasure Island. We can't rescure them. Some come home not fully transformed like pinochioo with just the ears and tail between their legs and it takes great remorse and accountability to turn them back into a "real person" again.

Some get too sick, too many regrets, and lose their path forever.

We can only save ourselves and pray.

Thanks to all of you for your support. You guys are the reason that I have recovered so well from all of this. I look at my life now, and although there was a time of chaos, it is now peaceful and has a glimmer of happiness. I'm glad for the whole Plan B thing because it kept me from getting pulled into his messed up world.

I'm sure his health issues have something to do with the demise of the A. Probably not what Miss Mullet had in mind.

It's still sad though, the way things turned out.

BS's - just remember it's better to be the BS than the WS.

Hi Chai,
Think of you often, and I'm sorry for the horrors exH put you through. You have been a champ!

Hi CL,

Just dropping by.

Keep doing what you are doing....two steps forward, one step back.... you are still ahead!

Take care.

Hello!, too. Just chiming in.
BC

Hey all,

Good to see you all driving around here today. Let's see, I do have an update or two.

Well, chaibaby2 is here. Like chaibaby, he is in "detox" which makes me so mad I can't see straight. Have been going back and forth with CPS, DD, hospital etc now for two days. I don't know what will happen at this point. I cannot take another newborn, the other GP cannot take another newborn, and DD is not capable but yet she still won't consider adoption. She just doesn't live in the same world that the rest of us live in. Baby will be in the hospital for another week or so and CPS will decide what is to happen. XWH was so big and bad in court claiming that he would take chaibaby away from all of us so let's see if he steps up to the plate and takes this child. As if.

DD says XWH has serious health issues and that she thinks the A (or affairage if that's the case) is in serious trouble. Gee, imagine that.

I'm close to a sale on my business, so hoping it goes through. I will get enough to pay off a couple of debts which will help me a great deal. I'll lose my original investment, but I'm chalking it up there with other loses due to the D. They never seem to stop coming.

Nothing else exciting. Life seems to be a little more peaceful each week.

(((Chai and chaibaby2)))

At least you will be able to eliminate some troubles through this.

Chai, we need to catch up. Did not know that baby 2 came and sale of your business??

Prayers coming your way.

Thanks for the update, CL.

The 'cleaning crew' is in the house...

Continue to reduce the mess and it will increase the peace, or

better still,

continue to increase the peace and it will reduce the mess.

Life is a process, CL, and I think you are doing...just great!

Chai,

While the addition of a new life to the world is always cause for celebration, I'm so sorry to hear of the struggles you and ChaBaby2 are going through right now. I am sure it is extremely difficult, but trust that all will work out as it should for CB2.

Am so proud of you that you are standing back in your own personal, peaceful space and letting those around you who are in chaos not invade your space!

I see waywards going all directions - their lives go up and down, back and forth, & round and round. Unless they choose to stop the chaos and look inside themselves to take responsibility for their situation & FIX whatever has broken inside, the chaos will continue forever.

Thank God for our having found personal recovery. You have set yourself upon a solid path and are reaping the benefits of your own hard work.

Am so happy for the peace you have found my friend.

Outstanding news on the sale of the business. Am saying prayers for the successful completion of the sale. Am especially impressed with your attitude about it. Wasn't that long ago, you would have let it take you down several notches. Your ability to put that into positive perspective is IMPRESSIVE!

Ahh, I can not wait to hear more of the good things I know are coming your way!!

Keep us posted!!

I KNEW Chaibaby2 must be here! Congrats on the baby arriving, although sickened by the conditions surrounding.
You truly deserve to be able to play the role of doting grandma to two wonderful kiddies, but things didn't work out that way. I'm so sorry.
No sympathies for your xH. He's getting more than he deserved already, even being allowed to see the babies and DD.
(((((Chai, Chaibaby1, Chaibaby2))))

Luna, FF, Karma, Hope, Bugsy, Ima...

Thanks for the support guys. Whew, I need it. I am standing my ground but it is hard. I know that I can't take another newborn and I have to keep telling myself that over and over.

The little guy is a cutie though. One good thing is that DD is a little different this time. With chaibaby, she didn't have much interest at birth, but she is a doting mama with this one. Time will tell though. CPS said she needs to get off the methadone, so we will see. If it doesn't work this time, chaibaby2 will go to foster care. I hate it.

The BF wants nothing to do with this one. The other GP haven't come to see him either. Breaks my heart that a little baby was born and his family doesn't want him. I just want what is best for him.

Anyway, he is doing well but will be in the hospital for about 10 days. Will keep you all posted. CPS is going to call XWH so we'll see if he steps up to the plate here.

XWH step up to the plate??? Well, stranger things have happened...

If DD doesn't clean up, foster care might be best, at least for now. We can hope and pray she will clean up at some point, and hopefully, get him (her?) back. The ending isn't written yet.

Regardless of what WXH or DD do, I hope you will continue doing what you've been doing--controlling the only thing you can--yourself--and building a life, anyway. The others will either take responsibility for themselves (as you have), or not.

Prayers for all of you.

Thanks RTW. Chaibaby2 is also a boy. XWH will probably not take it on. He is good a passing judgement on others by expecting higher standards of them than he does himself. Amazing how that works huh?

And yes, I fully intend to keep on the path that I am on - one of PEACE. I am thankful for it every passing day now.

Hi Chai,

Mazel Tov on the birth of the CB2. Though it's still a very tough situation.

I just so admire your strength and determination to build a new life, even though you didn't want it to happen. You are doing incredible and I'm looking forward to you coming out this way.

Hopefully very soon.

Hey Queenie,

Good to see you driving by. Stop by and stay a spell!!!

Just had to post this today. I get a text from DD:

DD Text: I am at the hospital now to see Chaibaby2. Dad is in the playroom watching chaibaby.

So I read this to a friend of mine who is visiting for the weekend, and she says to text back and ask if XWH will take chaibaby for the weekend so they can bond. OMG, what a great idea I say.

Me Text: See if Dad will watch chaibaby tonight. They can bond. Chaibaby would have a great time.

DD Text: Right. Chaibaby2 just got his newborn pic taken so I will send proofs.

Me Text: DD, I am not kidding. Why can't he take chaibaby?

DD Text: He's just not going to. He is sick and already frustrated. I'm leaving here because he is irritated.

Me Text: Why is he irritated?

dd Text: It's just not happening.

So, he's good at finding all kinds of things wrong with the rest of us but isn't willing to help.

This is the second time he has been with DD this week though. Me thinks something is stinky in Affairland.

What a great idea. Put some of the PARENTAL -- er -- GRAND-PARENTAL responsibility onto him.

He's too SICK?

He's too FRUSTRATED?

Welcome to the real world where CL isn't around to help. It's like he wants to rant and complain and criticize. And when you finally give up and say "then you do it," he says "not me."

Easy to be an arm chair quarterback.

I hope Affairland has been hit with a tornado of the worse kind. I hope it backfired in his face with something BIG like another OM or trust issues or FINANCIAL betrayal or -- gasp! LYING.

What goes around....

You are doing AWESOME, CL.

Well, I hoped so too but doesn't look like it. There was a meeting at CPS yesterday and DD said XWH would attend so I didn't have to. OK. DD called me after the meeting and told me that they let her take chaibaby2 back to rehab under the conditions that she stays clean. She says her dad supported her. When she called me, her counselor had just takedn her to pick up chaibaby2.

So last evening, the other grandpa called me to tell me his take on the meeting. He said WXH was there with �that woman.� Wow, I had the wind knocked out of me for a minute. I would have guessed that the A was on the rocks based on the past few months.

Other GP must have had a couple of glasses of wine, so he was talking about how XWH introduced her as �his girlfriend� (what is this, high school?), and that both of them were quiet until the social workers kept prodding XWH to talk. Other GP said XWH made sure to tell them that he travels so can�t help. Other GP said he saw right through that.

Then he said �Man, she is nothing like you� and I told him �I have never met her so I don�t know if that�s good or bad.� He said, �you have class.� He said it a few times, so that made me feel a little better.

Anyway, DD did not even mention that she was there which kind of ticked me off.

Why am I letting this get to me and drag me down? Every time I think I am doing great, along comes a trigger with a big gun behind it. I hate this. I just want to �get over it and move on� as they say. Why can�t I??? GRRRRR

((Chai))
Just remember that your DD, as "dear" as she is, is still an addict. Addicts are liars and manipulators. She obviously decided to hold that card to play at a time when it would have maximum impact.
You cannot presume she's giving you the straight story at ANY time. You know that, already, though. Just a little reminder!

I know Ima. I'm ticked that she didn't tell me, but more upset that the A is still active. I was convinced it had died which was some vindication for me. This definitely defies the 2 year mark. Going on 6 now. Some days it just brings me down.

I read something in a book (fiction) today that rings true... when it comes to APs they either stay together, no matter how bad it gets, to save face to prove to others that they were "meant to be" or they break up, proving that they're both just a couple of cheaters.

No wonder your DD told you that you didn't have to attend the CPS meeting. She KNEW OW would be there. She was either manipulating the situation or trying to protect you. Based on the history though, I have a feeling it was manipulation.

I'm so sorry Chai.

I have never been totally sold on the 2-year time thing but what do I know. I suppose if 2-years is correct then it takes a 4-year adultery somewhere to offset a one-night stand somewhere else.

Gollum and Wayzilla are 4+ years and still hanging.
SD's ex Sippy Cup Queen and POSOM are in the 5+ range.
Cowgirl's WxH and Babs are about the same.

I guess the class of 2007 was never too good at statistics.

Chai, sorry you were triggered. Notice OW did not offer her services for baby.

I would like to think that DD just did not want to hurt you but all she is about right now is getting what she wants.

You think it would get easier after all this time and then Kaboom.

Keep hearing it gets better. Wish there was a timeline!

{{{{{Chai}}}} My Wh A is hitting the 5 year mark also...You are not alone. Hang in there.

I hear you Chris. They say only 3% make it this far. Why are so many of us in the 3%. It's the same for me with AT&T. They have 97% of Americans covered, but wherever I go I seem to be in the 3% that isn't. I just can't win.

Add to list: Smartypants 2007 (WXH still M to OW)
I'm sure there are others I can't think of now..

I guess what baffles me is how they so casually make a decision to get married. This is a major life decision yet they jump right into it and after going through horrible D's. It's crazy


I guess that ticked me off and I feel very betrayed. A friend of mine said that I should let it go and not say anything. I'm not sure whether to let it go or not. I want her to know how I feel, not that it would matter, but I feel like I need to say something.

Any thoughts on it woulod be appreciated....

I think the reason it seems like the numbers are skewed here is because there are many people who come on here briefly, their H is in an affair, but it ends quickly and they quit posting.
Some of the longer-term posters here have had a more drawn-out A, meaning they stuck around to vent, get support and help others.
There are still plenty of people on here whose wayward ended the A pretty quickly, myself included. It's just a silent majority. But I do feel your pain. Just had a close family member endure a D-day yesterday, too. It never ends.

{{{{{Chai}}}}


Am so sorry about the latest trigger incident and all that goes with it. Try (although it's HARD) not to place too much stock in the fact that she was there. Remember, WXH (like Drac) seems very much about APPEARANCES. Doesn't necessarily mean things are great. It just means that things were ok enough for her to go along so that he could appear like the 'stable' GPa.



In a wayward mind, 'THIS' relationship is what is SAVING them from the horrific circumstances of the marriage. They have built all of the negative up about the marriage and all of the positive about the A in their minds and used it to justify their affair.
To them, it's the SOLUTION to all of their problems, remember?

Yep - Crazy.

I have to tell you that recently I've wondered if *I* were not the crazy one around my neck of the woods. Several triggers for me recently and the fact that I am still triggered has really bothered me. I, too, wonder if it will ever end.

But, I've decided that atleast I can deal with the triggers and with life at the same time, which is a whole lot better than how I once was. So, I just keep trying to focus on the positive and the blessings in life.

I allow myself an occassional 'moment' or two but then keep pressing on with life.

I am encouraged by several of our Class of 2007. Desptie the above average length of the WS's affairs, what an amzaing group! While we have a variety of new circumestances - some in relationships, some married, some just dating, and some living single - the amount of Personal Recovery is amazing. YOU, my friend, are included in that Amazing Group, ya know!

Don't beat yourself up over the trigger. Recognize it and try to work on less focus on the expectation that their affairage is in trouble or is ending. As we've said so many times here - there is no way for us to REALLY know what is going on there and it's best that we do not.

As for DD - well I have my own opinions as to why she did not tell you, but it does not matter what *I* think. It matters what you think. If you feel the need to express your hurt to her, then do so. I would caution you to have no expectations of her reaction or of her honestly/concern for your feelings in the future. Until she is fully in recovery, these kinds of conversations will likely be only for the benefit of your getting things off of your chest. As long as you know that - it can still be benefical for you.

So, how's the new job going? Are you travling much? Who knows, maybe we'll bump into each outher in the airport someday soon!

{{{Chai}}}}

Good morning Chai!

Just as Bugsy said, I am not going to sit and guess why your DD kept this info about OW from you. She did and that's that. If you have something to say to her, say it. There is no sense in holding back. Be O&H with her.

As for the ole WH, well, he's a jackarse and you know this. It's not that you are not worthy of respect, it's that he's not respectful to anyone or anything for any reason. He's all show...all about the song but not the dance. He's swooping in for the toughest stuff...like a meeting..OOOOO AAAHHHHH You can't control how stoopid other people are when it comes to WH, including your own daughter. She's gonna have to learn on her own what kinda man daddy has become, and as long as she is using or even in the user mindset, all his talking will buy him a passport into her heart. He doesn't have to show any action, just pontificate and emote and DD will love me.

It's a crock.

As for the length of most affairs being, what is it, 2 years? I dunno, you have to consider that you are on MB discussion forum, where most of us have been brutalized directly by infidelity. The concentration of people here as opposed to out in the big world is high, so the numbers will be skewed here.

In my sitch, the Z is not with original sin...he has moved on and on, so I don't have the original trigger walking around in my life at all. I thought about this last night, before dozing off. I'm indifferent to the women the Z dates now, don't talk about them, never meet them and don't give a hoot, as long as DS is OK, but I don't know how I would feel if he were still with OW#1. What I am bothered by is if the original OW has paid enough dues to make up for carpet bombing my marriage and then flying back to her base? She supposedly went back to her husband, so she still has HER marriage. IMO, there isn't much she can do to make amends for the damage she did, so I try to let it go, and will continue to do so. That's all I have within my power. This is the first time I have thought of her in years. I think it was Mel's thread about her sons upcoming nuptials that got me to thinking...

Anyway, I have prattled on...

My last day of work was Friday the 9th. I went to the beach for a few days with Sis and DS and a GF of mine. AZman and son will be arriving here Saturday to take a tour of DC, and then I'm back in the car for the four day trek across the country.
I dread that trip cuz my back is not so great right now. UGH!!!

Love you Chai and hope you find some peace.

I hear you Ima and agree. I am sure there is a disproportionate number here on the boards who are victims of the never ending A or affairage. I hope you send your family member here for help. This place has saved many people, me included.

I know, we have all come a long, long way. Back in 2007 I thought the world had ended, and believe me there were days that I wanted to leave it. I could not have imagined that I would survive a D and begin to heal. Wow. You never know what surprises life holds. Yes, we have done well.

I just get angry with myself that I let it drag me down. I drive myself nuts trying to figure out why I let it. I get into a depressed state that I have a hard time getting back out of. I hate the feeling � emptiness, feeling alone in the world etc. It�s almost like I go back to 2007 again and I never want to go back there. It was a very, very dark place that year.

I know part of it is that she doesn�t want to hurt me. Believe it or not, she can be a caring person. When she is not in an active addiction she never hangs up without telling me she loves me. There is a good person in there somewhere, but there is also the addict side and XWH feeds into it so she is going to protect it. I am not going to read anything into anything she says. As is with most of us, there was some satisfaction in believing that the A had ended. A little vindication I guess. As far as DD, I have learned the hard way not to expect anything from her. She is incapable of living in reality.

OK. Not the income I would like, but it will suffice until I can find something better (I hope). If you are down this way, let me know!!

SL, you crack me up. And, you are right as usual. It does tick me off though that I have done all of the hard work of living with DD and her addiction, trying to get help for her, caring for chaibaby etc and now he swoops in when the hard stuff is over. Of course he helped OW and her son with his addiction but couldn�t find the energy to help his own DD.



Sorry to say, but she probably doesn�t even give it a second thought. I don�t think waywards ever consider anyone else but themselves.

I am so happy for you. Bummer though, I was coming back your way in August and hoped that we could meet up. Another time for sure. Keep us posted on your travels�.

CL

Yup, you are probably right.... BUUUUUUT, if she is truly recovered, that's good enough. Sounds mean, but I hope she experienced a great deal of pain during her marital recovery, after the fog cleared and she realized what she had done...I hope it pained her greatly. I hope, however, she never knows the pain and destruction she was party to in my life. I really wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I can feel remnants of that pain creeping up into my throat, tightening as my head spins a little and I feel a faint tickle in my tear ducts.

SL,

You are NOT MEAN!

You are one of the nicest people I know!

I haven't found any shortcuts. I think time is the only thing that works, other than recognizing the triggers for what they are and trying to let go of the crap.

The SCQ married POSOM a couple of months ago, and that messed me up for a while. Then POSOM's ex-wife called me last week, and that put me in touch with the huge pool of lingering anger.

If I figure out some special way to cut through the crap, I'll let you know.

I find less and less triggers, but there are those days. Never know when those trigger bombs will hit but last time I had a shot of rum and that helped.

Ok maybe 2

I took chaibaby to meet his new brother yesterday. It was cute. He was a little skeptical at first, but then kept giving him kisses.

DD is now clean. For how long I don't know, but yesterday she was like a normal person. She seems to be taking good care of chaibaby2 and was very happy to see chaibaby. At one point, she had tears in her eyes and said that they made her so happy. I've learned to have no expectations though. It could change any day.

I decided to ask her why she didn't tell me that Miss Mullet came to the meeting. She said because she was afraid that I would be mad at her thinking that she had a relationship with MM., and that she didn't want to hurt my feelings. She said her dad didn't want to hurt my feeling either (nice of him). She said that she couldn't control what her dad did.

She then looked at me and said "Mom, I don't know why you are worried about her anyway, she is f'ing trailer trash." She made a jesture with her hands saying something about MM's hair and the sausage rolled bangs. Then she rolled her eyes. She said again about the tt thing and said that her dad took MM to Macy's and that she had never been in Macy's before. Hugh?

Well, now I know she is nothing like me. I'm all about the "N" word - Nordstrom , Nieman....

No mullets for me either.

So, did I feel better? No. Probably worse. The bottom line is that yes, I have more class, more education, better hair, better clothes, etc., but she's the one with my husband spending and gambling away my hard earned life savings.

I've come to the conclusion that single OWs are the big winners. They sacrificed nothing and gained everything. Looks like she's the winner here.

Anyway, not sure why XWH does not go to her state anymore. Looks like she comes here. DD said that her dad bought a crib for the new baby to use at his apartment, so he must not be planning to move and I doubt that Miss Mullet would move here and leave her kids and grandkids. Maybe so, but not likely.

OK, I need to stop trying to analyze everything and stay dark. It really is better that way.

When our kids were little, we sure didnt envision this as their future huh?

I am glad DD is clean, for now and hopefully the future. BTW congrats on chaibaby2, another boy! Hope he grows up knowing his g'ma loves him. Chaibaby1 already knows.

Chai, there is no rhyme or reason on how these WS get attracted.

The OP are big, small, ugly, pretty, fake, plastic (hhhmmm). It is an attraction of fog and fog dissipates.

Compare it to the days when we would go clubbing and the atmosphere was dim lights, plenty of alcohol, slow music and everyone looked beautiful. Then the last song would come on, the lights would be turned on and the bar would shut down. At that time you look at who you were dancing with and say what was I thinking of. Maybe you would run to the ladies room never to return.

Well the waywards are still dancing slow in the dark and when those lights turn on I would like to be the fly on the wall.

You are one very classy lady and your Ex is an idiot!

Thanks Lil. And no, never in a million years did I ever think this would happen. We had the typical teen age cr@p, but when she started college she worked, had a car, paid her bills, studied etc. Not sure what went wrong. She has a degree in Criminal Justice that she can never use now. I can only pray that the little ones make it through. I look at them and think that the chances of them ending up addicts is pretty strong. Ugh...

Hope, I don't know. Sometimes the fog never clears. The AP is able to meet all of the emotional needs, and better than the spouse, so it keeps on going. I think that's the case here. I was always wound up in my career, DD, and then my business and didn't pay enough attention to the M. You just assume that you are together for life. As I look back, my most important emotional needs weren't being met either but I learned to live with it and accept the other things that were positive. I guess I just didn't think it was severe enough to D over.

It is what it is. Now back to darkness and trying to continue working on me. I've let this whole thing consume too much of me this past two weeks and now I am practically starting from square one again. There is a reason that Plan B works if you follow it.

Hang in there Chai. You're right about Plan B. It really doesn't matter if it does or does not "hurt" WH. It's about you taking care of you.

Go do something for yourself.

Same exact thing with us, Chai. Add a H who doesn't voice any dissatisfaction, and BOOM! 30-something years into it.

We made it and I am so grateful, but wouldn't it have been wonderful if MB was a required course for everybody in high school, with advanced classes in college?

Maybe DD will stay clean this time. Miracles DO happen.

RHW

I know RTW. Mine either. He always said that it didn't matter that I made more money. He was more of the Mr. Mom and I was the career person. Never once said it bothered him.

Well, I wish we would have had MB sooner too.

Glad you made it. Wish we all could have been able to do it.

I know that you know that we can make it whether on our own, or in a recovering M.

And that either way, it's the hardest thing we've ever had to do. And we're both doing it! Hope your life takes an upswing after your latest exposure to XWH and Miss Mullet.

We all get caught up with other things and it is called LIFE.

When XH started spewing all the wayward garbage and said he was leaving I said why didn't you talk to me about all this and he said "why didn't you" and I said because I did not think there was anything wrong.

Waywards are turds.

No argument from me on THAT!

Unfortunately that seems to be a common theme around here. One spouse thinks everything is fine and the other is "not happy." UGH

I'm on the upswing now. I guess it is just a natural process to get through. I'm just glad the the down times are a lot less frequent than they were. I know a lot of people who have gone through a D and not one of them died from it, so I keep telling myself that it probably won't kill me. I'm not sure its all that comforting but I keep trying to justify it. Hey, we can learn something from the waywards. They're real good at justification.

Great post, Chai!

Thanks Ima. I get a good one off now and then.

Well, it had to happen sooner or later. DD had a run in with Miss Mullet. This is DDs story so it may not be 100% true, but she was so ticked off that I believe a big part of it.

Miss Mullet is obviously unhappy about XWH being back here and spending money on DD and chaibabies. Miss Mullet called her to tell her that she needs to be self sufficient (that part I do agree with) and that XWH can't spend money on her like he has been. The one thing that I do like about DD is that she has never taken crap from anyone and isn't about to let Miss mullet give her any, so Dd told her what she thought.

She said that she told her dad who of course defended Miss Mullet. DD told XWH that if he was going to chose the gold digging b$%ch over her and his grandkids then fine.

Not sure it accomplished anything, but Miss Mullet has now experienced the wrath of DD. You just don't come between DD and ANY source of money lol.

Of course we all know that to any wayward, semem is thicker than blood, so XWH will side with Miss Mullet.

Oh well, life goes on. STill working on getting up over that latest dip I went into to. Someitmes I think this process of up again, down again will never end. I just keep thinking of the lady I talked to a couple of weeks ago who told me that she is now just getting over it after 10 years. Yikes, I sure hope it doesn't take me that long.

Hope everyone is having a great weekend.

I have always said you need to go out on the road and make some money.

How's your life with G-d coming along?

Chai, I had to laugh when I read your latest post!
Think about those virtual fights, I don't know what they're called, but basically they pit one warrior, say Atilla the Hun, versus Alexander the Great, or whatever, and decide who would have won the fight.
In your case we have:
"In one corner, Miss Mullet, a gold-digging, home-wrecking ho, and in the other corner, DD, a recovering? addict with two chai babies." Who will win this fight?
In my opinion, just having two chai babies, without the addiction would win the battle....or.... just being the addict would be enough. Combine the two, LOOK OUT!!!
Glad it's not your problem!

Wish we could have videotaped that encounter.

In this corner is Ms. Mullet who comes out swinging trying to take care of XWH finances (urrrhh her finances)

In the other corner wearng the Rocky shorts is DD who is protecting her babies from the wrath of mullet and also who Daddies' finances for the good of her family.

Dodge, weave, duck...Mullet is beaten to a pulp. DD is heard yelling "Adrianne Adrianne" as she is lifted through the crowd.

lol guys. It really is funny though because DD will never hold back. I remember when she first found out about Miss Mullet, I remember her in the family room yelling at XWH and pointing out that he couldn't keep his D@#k in his pants. That was a good one.

She isn't afraid to get physical either. If Miss Mullet wants to keep her mullet, she had better learn to back off.

Her kindergarten teacher said she would probably be a used car salesperson. Back then I was appalled. Now I wish she had such a great career.....

DD - You wanna hit me, right?
Mullet - Oh, wouldn't I just love it.
DD - Okay, give it a try.
Mullet - Give it a try. Let's go, let's go.
DD - Bob and weave, honey. Bob and weave.
Mullet - Who dresses you anyway? - Okay, okay. Try it. Okay.
DD - Stand still, you little biotch. I'm gonna bash your little WASP brains out.

(Quotes actually taken from the movie Outrageous Fortune, but I thought they illustrated well how DD would handle mullet biotch)

then after DD beats her to a pulp, she could drive her to Wallllllmmmmmaaarrrrtttt to get some bandages. Ms. Mullet's favorite (only) store.

Poor Walmart, having to be associated with that twat!

One of the funniest things I have ever read on here!!!

Hi CL,


This 'pearl of wisdom' caught my eye a few posts back.....

...and, yes, it really is!

...and you are doing the 'two steps forward, one step back' very nicely.... keep going....

If you do the math, you ARE, in fact..ahead!

Chai,

I'm seeing a couple of things in your recent posts. First, a good sense of humor! That's extremely healthy and very helpful. I know, though, that it often just covers the pain that lies beneath. Yet, at the same time, it can help a great deal in your healing.

I've poked fun at the things about Drac that at the same time hurt so much! Sometimes after the laugh, I cry. Yet, as time has gone on, it's more often that I laugh and just move on. I would not necessarily say that I'm 'happy', but it's several steps up from Sad.

That is progress!

I also see you knowing more about the Affairage & the details of their lives. While Drac has moved on to Ho2, it feels to me no different than when he was with Ho1. I think it's just that in the minds of people who have not been through what we have, there is this mental timeline that they believe is totally fine to say whatever they want to say when it comes to the EX. In their minds, more than enough time has passed that we 'should be over it'. I endure hearing about Drac & the Ho WAAAY more than I am comfortable with.

So, do what you can when you feel you need to in order to limit the amount you hear about them. It doesn't have to be a big deal - if the subject comes up, just say to DD (or whoever), "Let's talk about something worth our breath" and change the subject.

You are doing great my friend. Give us an update on the job and your life! Any new classes on the horizon?

Checking in. How are things, CL?

Hey SD. Thanks for checking in.

I am actually doing pretty good. I found a buyer for my store so all of that is over and done. I had such a hard time hanging on with all of the debt from the A fallout and the D. Don't know how I made it as long as I did. Well, yes I do - I drained my retirement account. Of course, minus the chunk I had to give to the adulterer.

Anyway, I have two jobs now. Both are really just part time but I am hoping one or the other will lead to full time. Funny, I now work for two different Seattle companies and I live in Ohio. Queenie and JT, are you listening? Does this mean anything? Is it a sign?

Anyway, the best news is that my DD has custody of both children. I still can't believe it. I took them for doctor appts today and she called me before I got there telling me how cute she had them dressed, and how happy she was, and how much she loved them. She said that this is what she was meant to do. From monster to angel.

I haven't let myself get too excited because she IS an addict and things could go South at any moment, but it's something I never thought I would ever see. Chaibaby loves his little brother so much that it is almost an obsession. He is constantly hugging and kissing him, wants to help feed him, burp him etc. My DD can barely get the baby fed.

XWH hasn't come around too much since Miss Mullet called and told her that he couldn't come and spend money on her anymore.
Can you say "wussy?" What is it with these waywards who can't see past the OPs motives? Unbelievable.

Anywho, life is looking up. I escaped bankruptcy, paid off a lot of my debt, have two jobs, Dd is doing well, chaibaby and chaibaby2 are both great, the dog's seizures are under control, I have health insurance now , and I had a clean mammogram. Colonoscopy here I come. Hot d@mn! This could possibly be what recovery looks like. If I could just get rid of those periodic down days I'd be better.

Hi Chai!



I sure HOPE so!!!!

So glad to hear that things are going better. You are quite a fighter Chai, even if you didn't know it.

Maybe we will see you in Seattle soon.

Chai, I am so happy that things are going so well for you, you deserve it....

Chai,


FAB-U-LOUS update! I'm so so happy for you!



From the outside looking in, it sure looks like recovery to me. The real question,,,,, The ONLY one that matters is, Does it look like/feel like recovery to YOU?

You are an amazing woman, my friend. I see even more good things coming your way! What a wonderful, shining example you are!!

Have a great weekend!

((Chai))
So happy to hear your good news. It made my day. To be honest, I was just about to take a long break from MB after reading some of the other latest updates. There are several people here who are playing "victim" and refuse to do the heavy lifting that is required to recover their lives. Yours is an example that you may not recover your marriage, but you darn sure can recover your life. I know it was a long process for you, and there were plenty of bad moments, but you hung in there with grace and strength, and you are a beacon for us all. I hope others will learn from you. I've given up on trying to help others for a while.
((((((((Chai))))))))

Chai, SO happy that you've found a buyer for your business, your DD is managing to care for the babies, you've got work AND health insurance, plus all those other things.

What a turnaround!

Yours is the most incredible story of fortitude and grace under pressure. You are truly an inspirational woman. I pray all goes well for you from now until forever. You've certainly earned it.

RHW

Ok Chai,

Get up from your computer and walk over to the closest Mirror...Gaze at the reflection...

Repeat after me: I AM A GODDESS!!!

We need a rainbow after all of the stormy weather.

Also forget Seattle...too wet and cold this time of year. Don't you want to bask in some of the sunshine on a sunny island?

Of course i could tag along to Seattle? Could use a little vacation!

Glad to hear things are going so well, CL. I'm sure selling the business was bittersweet. And especially glad to hear you have been able to watch your DD with her kids. That's awesome. Hope it keeps up.

Thanks to all of you for the vote of confidence, but I really haven't done anything that the rest of you haven't done. I just may be a little ahead of you on the path, but we all pass through the same traffic lights. It's just sometimes we get caught by a red one that sticks. We either run it or wait for it to change, but we all get to that final destination somehow.

And though I hate to say it, time is the key. The more miles you travel, the harder it is to see behind you. Heck, there are days where I even forget what my XWH looks like. In fact, a co-worker of XWH took a picture of him and sent it to DD this weekend. Since she was in the car with me she showed me the pic and I don't think I would have known him if she hadn't told me what was coming. It was weird. He was heavy and had white hair.

Anyway, I appreciate all of the support.

And Ima, DON'T LEAVE!!!!!

Hi CL,

Great great news. Enjoy. Life is full of surprises, isn't it (or is it what we make of it)?

Take care.

So true, Chai. I feel so many miles from where this all started; I think at some points I was even being dragged along with the car, like my coat was caught in a closed door or something

It will be sometime before I don't know what the Z looks like, because he video chats with DS8 every week. Even then, I try to avoid looking at him. Once DS8 gets how to connect to the chat better, I will be able to go completely dark again. It's funny, you would think I would be able to accomplish that from 2500 miles away. Sadly, no.

I think it's hard for people to hear that it takes time. I knew it to be true, but when you are in the midst of all of that devastation, you want a quick fix. It's just not possible, even if you ran away from the wayward at first sight...the pain follows you.

No one can understand this journey unless they have travelled it. Oh my gosh, the emotions, the turmoil, the stress, the anxiety, you name it. It does feel as though you have been dragged by a car. You are so funny SL.


Well, as they say...you will show up wherever you go. We have to deal with it. There is just no getting away from it. No quick fix, as much as we would like. The scary thing is...I've heard people say ten years. What!!!! I sure hope I'm ahead of this thing before 10 years.


Luna!!!!! Good to see you. WE want an update girl!!

Hi CL,


So, might as well enjoy the ride CL, is what I say!

I think you are doing just GREAT.... only look back to see just how far you have come.

Take care.

Just stopping in to say hi, thinking of you...I hope everything is going well and that your holidays are happy.

Wow, has it really been that long since I've been here? I guess so.

I'm doing pretty good these days. In Dec., it will be two years since the D was final. After I sold the business I paid off what debts I could, then went through a tough financial period until I finally got a job in Feb. It isn't at the salary I used to be at, but considering that I was out of the industry for several years, I am not complaining. I'm just happy to be able to pay bills. I'm working on getting back on my feet slowly.

My DD is doing well. She is DD29 now, and suddenly acting like a real adult. She has chaibaby and chaibaby2 and does really well with them. She finally got away from the baby daddy and he's now off with someone else and she is pregnant. It will never end because there is no responsibility there - the govt. pays for his sexual escapades. I'm sure he will end up with multiple kids with multiple women. They can't get child support out of him because he has nothing to give.

So DD is trying to get her life together, but unfortunately she made really bad decisions that will prevent her from ever having the life she wants now. She is a single parent on welfare and I don't know if that will ever change. She has a degree, but with a couple of arrests she will never get a real job.

XWH calls her every few months. Miss Mullet will not let him see her much because she doesn't like it when he spends money on her and the kids. So DD doesn't see him much. He brought Miss Mullet to town recently and DD says she's gross - trashy with yellow teeth. DD can't stand her and makes no effort to hold that back. Evidently he didn't marry her. Kinda makes me wonder why we went through all of this if he wasn't going to marry her. Seems like a waste.

I have triggers now and then, especially when DD talks about him, but I just have to deal with it. I haven't seen or heard from him since I saw him in court two years ago, and I don't really ever expect to see or hear from him again. This Xmas will be 5 years since Dday. Seems like forever ago.

Hope everyone is doing well!!!

What a wonderful update! I am so happy to hear your DD turned her life around and is taking care of her babies.

Chai!!! How nice to see you! We've missed you around here. I'm so glad to hear your DD is finally on the right track. I bet those grandbabies are growing like weeds. Grandbabies are such a treasure.

Chai, I am so happy to read your update. How wonderful that your DD has stepped up to the plate and is taking care of her children!

Yes, you are a Goddess!

You have grown immeasurably and conducted yourself admiringly throughout your whole ordeal...and come out on top!

I will be praying that any remaining financial worries are soon over for you, as well as for your DD and precious grandchildren.

I really admire you!

Update:

Well, 2.5 years after the D, and 5.5 years after Dday, my XWH now wants his family back. The A crumbled, so now he wants to talk to me.

I don't have time to tell you all the entire story right now, but just wanted to post so that all of you out there can have some hope.

Me? Not sure about all of this, but I have agreed to hear him out.

Stay tuned.

WOW. Totally unexpected. Make sure you keep us posted.

And keep in mind the wayward crapola as a checklist against his behavior.

Tuned .....

And for those who are new to her story ..... a vital piece of data !!!

Holy cowza!

Here is the SchoolBus post on when it's over...

"You can know when he is done when the OW's wails are louder than yours, and when he complains so loudly about her that you wish he would stop talking to you about her.

Seriously, when his complaints about OW are so loud, and so nasty, you will come to believe that OW is out of his life as his "best friend and soulmate."

But how do you know that you know "everything"?

Ask him to sit down as he would with a buddy and tell you his story with OW. Just tell you the story, and you do not interrupt him. He tells you the story about how he met OW and tells the tale as if he were telling another man.

And he talks about her with dreamy eyes at first
(you CAN endure this)

and he talks about the sex
and he talks about the time when they did this or that
and he tells you a story or two you never heard
and then he talks about how it went down the tubes
and his regrets

And you don't HAVE to ask questions to get anything out of him

when he does this, openly and honestly, without fear, without you feeling the need to push or punish, without his needing to hide anything from you.

That's when you know what you need to know.

And you will know it when it happens.

And no, my H hasn't done it yet. I keep hoping. Maybe soon."

SB


This is HH. There are many insightful posts from SB about recovery and false recovery and the "knowing" part. Good luck to you, Chai. You know we're all rooting for YOU because it's all about YOU -- not him or your marriage or the past. YOU -- today and tomorrow.

Do you know what Chai's requirements for recovery are? I hope she keeps the bar high.

YK.....sometimes it is best not to anticipate or conjecture.

Chai, report back whenever you have met with him and it will be interesting for us to find out how much of his inner work he may have apparently done and how much he still has to do.

This can not be easy for you Chai. We are here for you to support your journey.

Yes, we would love to hear how this turns out. We've missed you Chai!

Why is this such an "insightful" post? Where did the insights come from? The poster hadn't seen it happen in her own marriage, so how did she know that a WS's real desire to recover looked like that?

I recommend this post from sexymamabear. It lists the requirements she put together after posting on this forum during her separation. She sent these to her H when he made an attempt to reconcile. She only spoke to him in person when he readily agreed to all the conditions, including a post-nup and a polygraph.

She made the point that she wasn't looking for words but for actions. This action-orientated list demanded measurable, concrete actions that the BS could see had been taken, or not taken.

In the case of this particular WH (tst), he initiated all the actions that needed to be taken, such as contacting the coaching centre and a lawyer. When he did those things, smb could see that the affair was really over, and that he genuinely desired a reconciliation.

Definitley, Chai will know if she meets with her x H if he is anywhere he would need to be for her to consider ever having any sort of relationship with him or not.

He will either have some initiative or be totally in renter mentality still.

Chai has walked the path of strength and doesn't even need to meet with him. Whatever she does or doesn't do here is going to be up to powerful her.

If you are interested in using Dr Harley' advice, you should look for a ready willingness to do the things outlined in the following article as a sign that your H is genuinely keen to reconcile. Four Rules to Guide Marital recovery After an Affair.

Here's another MB tool.
Requirements for Recovery From An Affair

He is very likely to be in a fogged out renters mentality when she meets him. (as was tst) This is why it is so critically important for her to set her standards high and lay out conditions for reconciliation. Recoveries don't happen by accident, they happen with a PLAN. And SMBs plan that sugarcane posted is a plan that works. All it takes is willingness.

And of course what she does is up to her, that is not in dispute. But if she wants to recover her marriage she needs to have a real plan.

One more recommendation from me comes from something I heard on the radio show. I'm afraid that I'm hopeless at keeping records of these, but we have some very meticulous posters here who seem to record what was said in every show, and one of them might be kind enough to link the quote that I am after.

Dr H says that a WH (as opposed to a WW) will show big remorse if he is really finished with the affair AND if he genuinely wants his wife and family back. He says something like "if a WH does not go begging on his knees to his BW, he is not serious and should not be entertained". So, rather than look for him to talk about his affair dispassionately, look for desperation from him. You do not want him to come back home only because he has broken up with OW and does not want to be alone. You want him to want you.

Here is what that Harley-style remorse looked like from sexymamabear's perspective:

Now THAT is knowing it when you see it.

Thanks for all of the support. I have no expectations of anything right now. I have come a long way in the last 4 1/2 years, and I will be fine with whatever happens. I know what I want after all of this, and I will not settle for less, so if he is dead serious about a recovery, he has to prove it.

My goal for tonight is to listen, and listen only. I will then decide where his head and heart are, and if they are not on my side of the street then he knows the road back to OW and I will wish him well. And even if I believe that he is serious, there is a long, long road, and I am not even sure that I have the desire or energy to travel it at this point.

Why have you agreed to meet him, Chai?

Has he indicated via your IM that he has ended his affair and is willing to meet all the requirements you laid out in your Plan B letter? I do hope so.

I truly hope for the sake of humanity ... a once horrible, deplorable adulterous wayturd can and will do what is needed to make it right.

Any marriage saved is a positive especially when a once extremely wayturd adulterer has turned from their evil ways and makes it work.

I am rooting for a happy ending ... I am praying for all involved to have the proper and true healing.

Chailover,

Can you tell us what your requirements are for recovery?

Actions speak louder than words. Good luck tonight.

To mirror what Scotty said....WOW. Chai I am so happy everything is going good for you...I couldnt believe when I saw your thingy at the top of the thingys (OMG I am having serious memory problems right now). Its so good to hear from you and with happy stuff too...

Yes, you have!


Yes, you will!

I've been saying some prayers for you, and will continue to remember you in prayer....

Well,
wanted to stop in seeing Chai post and seeing the old "faces" on MB.

I am blessed to knowing Chai and being able to call her a good friend.

Through this experience (The pain of adultery) Chai has been a great example of grace and strength. Her wayward was one of the worst offenders and many of us followed her journey.

Any BS coming to this forum this is one worth reading.

She has set the bar high and does not want anything less than what we deserve.

First, in seeing and speaking to him at least she will know if she has any desire to restore the M. This is not a small window of time. This has been years. She might see him and say "ugh" and have her closure or meet with him and see what karma has wrought. Her choices now.

Chai is a warrior now and won't settle for less. There will be a time for conditions and lists and counseling... A time to see remorse or more repentence.

If this one is restored it is one for the records... absolutely.

The time to establish conditions and lists and counselling is at the outset. The time to see remorse and repentance is BEFORE he is allowed back home.

I would hate to see Chai or anybody guided into thinking that the time can come later.

Agreed....
Clarification....
Chai has been dark for years.
She would not just "allow" him back home.
It would not be until the initial face to face to even know if she wants to try and resurrect the M.
Once this happens then she will establish boundaries and ground rules.
end of clarification...

Well, you sound ticked.

You responded to Chai's update by offering advice, which is what we do here. Your advice was the "body language" thread. Others' advice, including mine, came from the experience of a successful Plan B/Recovery BS who had experienced "how you know" in her own marriage, and we also posted Dr Harley's advice.

The advice from others seems to have annoyed you. Your response is . Why?

And why do you speak for Chai?

Not annoyed or ticked at all.

Maybe used wrong icon. lol

No one is disputing the success of the MB program. It works and not disputing that.

Did not reference body language thread even though School Bus was one of the most insightful posters on this thread.

My thought was until Chai sees XH will she even know if she wants to try reconcilation? If she does, then MB is the perfect place. Nor is this speaking for her. inserts better icon ====

Sorry - I should have said the "how will you know" thread.

I'm glad you agree that MB is the perfect place!

Chai, this one is for you....thanks Whitney



There's a boy I know, he's the one I dream of
Looks into my eyes, takes me to the clouds above
Ooh I lose control, can't seem to get enough
When I wake from dreaming, tell me is it really love

Chorus:
How will I know (Don't trust your feelings)
How will I know
How will I know (Love can be deceiving)
How will I know
How will I know if he really loves me
I say a prayer with every heart beat
I fall in love whenever we meet
I'm asking you what you know about these things
How will I know if he's thinking of me
I try to phone but I'm too shy (can't speak)
Falling in love is all bitter sweet
This love is strong why do I feel weak

Oh, wake me, I'm shaking, wish I had you near me now
Said there's no mistaking, what I feel is really love

oh tell me


chorus

If he loves me, if he loves me not

Excellent radio clip where Dr. H talks about what a WH should do for his wife to give him another try after his affairs. He explains it like an addict.

Radio Clip on a WH on what to do to get back with his wife 3:50 mark

I'm still trying to locate the radio clip that Sugarcane is talking about with "hat in hand".

So, any updates?

I have heard him say this too, but can't remember where.

I actually emailed him to ask and Joyce said Dr. Harley couldn't recall. I've been listening to the last two months and still haven't found it yet. I may keep going back since I listen all the time.

BrainHurts, you are quite wonderful to locate and post radio links tirelessly as you do. Thank you for trying to find this for me.

I must say that the logging of Dr Harley's statements in my mind is faulty. I am not systematic like you! I might actually have read this, rather than heard it, on another thread. I have a feeling that DoormatNoMore might have posted this in the Recovery forum. I don't have time now, but I'll have a look around there when I get back.

You're very welcome. I listen and relisten all the time. I was just hoping Joyce or Dr. Harley might recall, to no avail.

I guess we are still "staying tuned"?

Same here! I've been worried, quite frankly, but...

A little bird told me that Chai and her WXH are trying to recover and have for a couple months now.

I hope she gives an update.

I truly hope it works, because I observed nearly the whole long, sordid story. I hope she updates us too, and I hope her XH has decided to be a REAL husband, and earn his F.

I heard it too....and I hope the best for her. She has really been through the ringer.

Chai is a wise woman. She has not entered into the recovery realm lightly. Hopefully, she'll post soon.