Greetings,
I recently (on 4/9) found out about an affair my wife has been having for the past several months. We are committed to fixing our relationship and she has not had any contact with the man she had the affair with.
I know what part I played in driving my wife to seek companionship from someone else. The affair started around December with general chat online, it then turned into phone conversations and text messages and ultimately into a physical affair. I am now working to fulfill the emotional void I left that drove her to the affair.
My question is - How do I stop bringing up the affair, how do I stop myself from asking about this or that and questioning any phone number I do not recognize?
I feel if I do not stop this behavior, I will end up causing us even more problems but the pain I feel continues to drive me to get answers.
I love my wife very much and I belive she still loves me. I need advice.
JP
Greetings,
I recently (on 4/9) found out about an affair my wife has been having for the past several months. We are committed to fixing our relationship and she has not had any contact with the man she had the affair with.
I know what part I played in driving my wife to seek companionship from someone else. The affair started around December with general chat online, it then turned into phone conversations and text messages and ultimately into a physical affair. I am now working to fulfill the emotional void I left that drove her to the affair.
My question is - How do I stop bringing up the affair, how do I stop myself from asking about this or that and questioning any phone number I do not recognize?
I feel if I do not stop this behavior, I will end up causing us even more problems but the pain I feel continues to drive me to get answers.
I love my wife very much and I belive she still loves me. I need advice.
JP
You are asking questions that
should be asked. Your trust and sense of reality have been shattered. What you are going through is normal. Your WW needs to be completely transparent and open & honest with you about everything concerning her A in order for you to process and heal from it.
You played NO part in 'driving' your WW somewhere she shouldn't have been. She made that choice - not you. You may have had a part in creating the conditions that would endanger your M. Ultimately, your WW had choices. She could address the conditions in her M that caused her unhappiness, or she could engage in adultery. That's never appropriate behavior, nor is it an appropriate response to feeling a lack of something in a M.
You are in the very early stages of healing from this A. It's great that your WW is on board with you and wants to repair the terrible damage she has done. Keep reading here - all the posts, all the articles. Your WW should come on board, as well.
BTW, welcome. You're among friends.
I agree... and you SHOULD ask about any and all activity, phone numbers, messages, emails, etc. She has been untruthful, and if she values your marriage, should understand and freely give EVERY SCRAP of information you ask about. But you must realize this is not as a pennance to make up for what she did, this is in order for her to rebuild the trust that you have lost for her. Ensure that SHE AND YOU BOTH understand that point, because it is important to the progress of your marriage. EXTREMELY important!
Read the Basic Principles about NO CONTACT and restoring trust. You should have all access to everything she does down to when she got in the car to go to work and actually got to work, if you need it to feel comfortable with her fidelity. If she is unwilling to go that far if needed, there is a reason, and it is a reason which is based upon an expectation that she might want to or WILL be untruthful to you again.
Read up... don't bash her, but it is OK to be upset. If she can't understand what she has done and accept how you feel, then she will not succeed in maintaining what she needs to do in order to fulfill your mutual marriage.
DON'T CHERRY PICK this program. I really believe it will work, if you BOTH want it to work. It is much harder if only ONE of you want it to work, but can still succeed.
You NEED to talk about the affair. You have been through an extremely traumatic life event, similar in stress to the death of a child or being the victim or rape (according to studies as well as forum members who have experienced both infidelity and one of those other two traumas). When a person suffers a trauma like this, they have to talk about it. It helps them come to grips with their new "reality" - because the old "reality" was not reality at all, but a fabrication. Talking about it helps you get your feet on solid ground again.
It also helps make the event less scary. When you see news reports on television of the aftermath of a tsunami, or hurricane, or earthquake, the people are dazed. They come out into the light and seek one another out to talk about their experiences. Same thing after the assassination of a beloved leader figure. People need to talk to put things in perspective and to deal with the trauma.
Your WW needs to answer all of your questions with complete and total honesty, as many times as you care to ask them. You only found out a week and a half ago. It will take you many months to work through this. You'll vacillate at first between insane bonding and being furious and hurt. Most BS (betrayed spouses) get really angry about six months out. This can cause you to feel like you've done "all this work" and put up with "all this crap" for nothing, because it's NEVER going to get better, and so on. Things will settle down a bit after that, and at two to five years out you will have a pretty normal marriage again. Not naive and innocent, but wiser and stronger and more rewarding.
Something that usually helps is for you and WW to set aside a couple of nights each week for maybe an hour or so to talk about the affair, get your questions answered, talk about your plans moving forward, etc. That way you know your questions will get answered and she knows she's not about to be ambushed and dragged over the coals at every turn.
Also it helps to write down your questions, and ask them 48 hours later. You might be surprised at how quickly burning questions that you HAVE to have answered NOW become kind of inconsequential after a couple of days.
One thing you need to get into your head right now is that you did not "drive" your WW to have her affair. Yes, you contributed to a sucky marriage but the affair was 100% her decision, her lack of boundaries, and the affair is hers to own. You do NOT share in that.
What is she doing to earn back your trust?
JP, I woke up my FWH (formerly wayward husband) in the middle of the night for weeks, because I thought of questions I had to know the answers to right then. It was my way. I eventually made him sit down with me and replay the A, from A to Z. That helped me a lot.
Expect this to take awhile. And your WW may want to put on her 'patience pants'. It was all about her during her A. It's all about you, now. She needs to start doing the heavy lifting to help you heal from this adultery and ultimately rebuild your M. It can be done and it's absolutely worth it. But it's not for wussies, that's for sure.
I engaged in an affair. There has been no contact for 8 months. My husband checks my e-mails daily (several times a day), asks about unknown cell phone numbers, and always knows where I am and who I am with. It hurts a little but only because I feel bad that he has to, NOT because I'm upset with him. I expect he will continue to do this indefinitely and I'm okay with that.
I engaged in an affair. There has been no contact for 8 months. My husband checks my e-mails daily (several times a day), asks about unknown cell phone numbers, and always knows where I am and who I am with. It hurts a little but only because I feel bad that he has to, NOT because I'm upset with him. I expect he will continue to do this indefinitely and I'm okay with that.
I'm fourteen months out and still check occasionally. I have certain snooping tools that I also use. And you know what? That's how it
should be! Why do we think it's so weird to want complete access to what our 'other half' is up to? Why would we neglect that? When you marry, you become one. Your WW is a part of you. Why wouldn't you want complete access to yourself? And it should be
expected. Your WW should know what you're up to, as well. There should be total transparency from both sides, forever. (Okay, I'll make an exception for birthday surprises.
)
Thank you all for your advice and information thus far.
Some background: in October I found out about the potential of my plant closing and me losing my job. I became deeply depressed and disconnected from life.
I understand the decision to have the affair was her's and her's alone. I also know that the depression I fell into and my lack of attention shown to my wife caused her to seek that attention from someone else (again she had a decision, seek it from someone else or confront me).
My wife has ended all contact with the other man, I know this because she has removed him from facebook, and I have been checking our cellular bill for any incoming or outgoing text or phone calls. I have not found anything that would indicated contact since I discovered the affair. Physical contact is very difficult because they live in different states. He was here one time for business and she stayed out all night with her boss(female) she said(which I encouraged because I didn't want her to drive home after drinking)I didn't suspect it was to meet this other man. This was in February. I wish I would have volunteered to come pick her up but I didn't.
From Feb - April, she continued chat, text and phone conversations with him. I was unaware because I would get home from work, have two or three drinks and be in bed by 8:30pm or so. Depressed, I didn't have the energy or desire to do anything else. I didn't put any energy into talking to my wife, asking her about work and investing time into our marriage.
In April she planned a trip to see an old friend (she had done this in years past) so I didn't think much about it. I later found out it was a cover to see this other man again. It was only 5 days before our 10th anniversary which is April 8th. On Friday 4/9 I went up to bed early as usual but at around midnight I woke up and my wife still wasn't in bed. I went down stairs and discovered her chat session and that is when everthing came to light.
I know it has only been 11 days since I discovered this affair. I want to do everything in my power to fix us. I belive she does also. I have full access to her facebook, email and phone records. I believe she is committed to fixing our marriage also but she has said my constant questions whenever I discover someting new bring back all the hurt and pain for both of us.
For instance - Yesterday I was reviewing our cell bill and noticed she called and talked to him for 35 minutes on the way home from work on our anniversary. I immediately called her and asked how could you do this, you ruined our anniversary. I know these type of outbusrts are not helping.
And today I was looking over our phone records and noticed a 660 area code that several text messages were exchanged to. I know this is where her family lives but did not have the number in my address book. I immediately got suspicious and called her to find out who it was. It was her mothers cell phone.
I want full transparency but I also don't want to bash her and make her feel I am not trying. I will take any new information found that I have a question about and put it on the back burner for 48 hours like suggested.
Thanks and sorry for the long response.
JP
Thank you all for your advice and information thus far.
<snip>
I want full transparency but I also don't want to bash her and make her feel I am not trying. I will take any new information found that I have a question about and put it on the back burner for 48 hours like suggested.
Thanks and sorry for the long response.
JP
JP, you've just started on one ride that you're not going to enjoy - the rollercoaster. You're going to go up up up, thinking everything's going to be fine. The next second, down the hill you go, despairing of anything ever being right in your world again.
You are the victim of a terrible crime - your WW's adultery. You will be wrestling with healing for some time, and as you heal you will have moments of extreme anger and moments of serenity (fleeting at first, then better as time moves on.)
Do whatever it takes to feel better. If you want to sit on your questions, that's fine. If you want to ask the same one, over and over until you can wrap your mind around the answer, that's okay. Your WW needs to help you in whatever way you feel will help.
You are not being unreasonable, although maybe you have to ask your questions without LB's.
This close after Dday you should be checking. My husband and I went to the bank together to prove I hadn't been hiding money and make sure his name was on our chidren's accounts. He called constantly about every odd number or an unusual purchase.
To this day, he gets the mail so he doesn't think I've gone through it first
Maybe if something gets you too upset, write down your question or something so you avoid an immediately response with an angry phone call but your concern can still be addressed.
I believe she is committed to fixing our marriage also but she has said my constant questions whenever I discover someting new bring back all the hurt and pain for both of us.
Hi JP!
I'm sorry, I don't think your W is worried at ALL about bringing back all the hurt and pain for both of you...
I believe (based on MY personal rebuilding experiences with Mrs. RIF) that your W wants to "move past this" so you can just be the "loving couple" that you were ment to be...
I can bet that right now, that you don't know what to be hurt over or what you should be angry over... because you don't know what happened during the A.
I fully agree that you need to learn to control your anger and NOT direct it at your W, but you should feel free to ask ANY question that you need answered. Don't allow your W to manipulate you like this.
Her statement tells me that she is NOT committed 100% rebuilding the M.
Semper Fi,
RIF
Greetings,
I recently (on 4/9) found out about an affair my wife has been having for the past several months. We are committed to fixing our relationship and she has not had any contact with the man she had the affair with.
I know what part I played in driving my wife to seek companionship from someone else. The affair started around December with general chat online, it then turned into phone conversations and text messages and ultimately into a physical affair. I am now working to fulfill the emotional void I left that drove her to the affair.
My question is - How do I stop bringing up the affair, how do I stop myself from asking about this or that and questioning any phone number I do not recognize?
I feel if I do not stop this behavior, I will end up causing us even more problems but the pain I feel continues to drive me to get answers.
I love my wife very much and I belive she still loves me. I need advice.
JP
start *here* and read through all the links
I know what part I played in driving my wife to seek companionship from someone else.
Unless you drove the car, you were not the driver.
Your wife's motives for betraying her own morals/values/integrity cannot be laid at your feet.
She's a big girl.
She deserves to be treated like a grown up.
Your wife deserves to have the responsibility for her decisions laid at her feet.
.... Unless she's immature. Is she too immature to accept the responsibility for her own choices?
Print this out, and share it with your wife.
Have her read it.
Then, after she's read it, ask her to read it aloud to you.
Then discuss the contents of "Joseph's Letter".
God luck!
Joseph's Letter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To Whomever,
"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.
"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.
"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is will affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.
"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.
"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."
(end of Joseph's Letter)
jpowelle5,
Most wayward spouses do not immediately understand the necessity of the BS needing a period of time during which they question, grieve, and fall apart periodically. Pep has given you a great letter to share with your WS. Do it.
I'm not in total agreement with a previous poster that your WW is not onboard 100%; at this point, she just has no clue as to what you need to truly get into an MB recovery. When I was in your shoes and found MB, I often copied or emailed various articles and posts from the forum to my FWH. It was from these that he began to understand that he had to face my questions as unbearable to him as they seemed.
Bless you.
GY
With tears in my eyes and pain in my heart I thank you all. I know I have a tough road ahead of me with many peaks and many valleys.
I will share that letter with my wife. It has truely touched home - amazingly it is how I am feeling. I have shared many other of the Q&A's from this site with her and she has read some if not all. The reason I know this is because she has referenced some of them. She claims that she is not going through any type of "withdrawls" as mentioned in the recovery process and that she just wanted her husband back and now she has that. I have asked her if she told him she loved him and she says no she did not - I don't know what to believe and what not to. I use to believe everything and now I can not.
I have spent several hours reading all of the Q&A's on this great site. I joined the forum today seeking further enlightenment.
I do not know what the future holds for us. I never thought I would be here. We have been together a third of my life, 13 years and married 10 of them. I am not willing to give up and that is why I am here.
Thank you all once agian.
Semper Fi and God Bless.
I don't know what to believe and what not to. I use to believe everything and now I can not.
This can turn around.
With study.
With tools.
With blood/sweat/tears.
With each other for support and encouragement.
With Prayer.
The marriage recovery is a process.
There will be even darker days ahead. (sorry, but true)
There will also be lighter days, and brighter days. (also true)
God Bless.
Print this out, and share it with your wife.
Have her read it.
Then, after she's read it, ask her to read it aloud to you.
Then discuss the contents of "Joseph's Letter".
God luck!
Joseph's Letter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To Whomever,
"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.
"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.
"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is will affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.
"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.
"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."
(end of Joseph's Letter)
Beautiful letter!! And so well put! Maybe there will be a day when I can give it to WH and be able to talk about it with him. He's still too deep in his addiction to care right now.
jpowelle5,
Most wayward spouses do not immediately understand the necessity of the BS needing a period of time during which they question, grieve, and fall apart periodically. Pep has given you a great letter to share with your WS. Do it.
I'm not in total agreement with a previous poster that your WW is not onboard 100%; at this point, she just has no clue as to what you need to truly get into an MB recovery. When I was in your shoes and found MB, I often copied or emailed various articles and posts from the forum to my FWH. It was from these that he began to understand that he had to face my questions as unbearable to him as they seemed.
Bless you.
GY
ITA. Your WW is ignorant of the scope of what she has done. I'm not being mean - she truly
is ignorant. My FWH hid some details from me right at first. Not because he was ashamed of them (although he was, of course) but because he was afraid they would
hurt me! How's that! As if having an affair wouldn't??
And - get this - he didn't think the A would be as big a deal as it ended up being!
Once he was educated on MB principles it all fell into place.
Let me add to what others are saying: try, really try, to thank your WW when she shares details with you. Not for committing the acts, but for caring enough to share this terrible tragedy in order to help you heal.
And wait - there's more!
You may find an interesting thing will occur for the two of you, through this sharing: you may reach a whole new level of intimacy. There's just something about being vulnerable and baring your soul that cleanses it.
MB -
My wife has stated the reason she continued to hide the details of the affair (something as simple as who purchaed the baseball tickets for the game you the the other man attend) were her way of not adding to the pain/hurt I am going through.
I know that no affair is the same and not all affairs can be scripted like a book. My wife was willing to drop the other man as soon as I discovered the affair. She states that there is no withdrawl period because she was not addicted to him.
I know that the affair started as just idle chit chat on the computer and turned into "how bad both of their marriages were" and "what their spouses where doing wrong or not doing at all". I feel that I let this happen but not paying attention to all the signs right in front of my face.
I can't stop thinking about if I would have done this or would have done that - all of this would not have happened. I know she made the decision to not confront me about what was wrong in our marriage just as much as I didn't confront her or myself with what was wrong. I also know her and her alone decided to lie, deceive and finally cheat on a physical level.
I feel like the past several months (all the things we did together were a complete lie) my 10 year anniversay is a lie - how could she have sex with another man 4 days before a milestone in our lives and talk to him on the phone on our anniversary and have an online sex chat session the day after.
The amount of time over the past several months that she has communicated with the other man is amazing to me, what did that have to talk on the phone about, text about, chat online about and how could she just be able to walk away with out looking back, without a withdrawl (I am happy if this is the case as I don't know if I would be stong enough to go through seeing her missing another man that she became emotional attached to and had sexaul relations with).
All of our conversations seem to somehow tie back to the affair and I understand it has only been 12 days now since I discovered it. How could I have been so disconnected from my wife that I did not see all of this. I am ashamed of myself - I have so much hurt / pain / hopelessness - but know that she is trying just as hard as I am.
Sorry for the long post - I just had to get this off my chest.
JP
I know that no affair is the same and not all affairs can be scripted like a book.
I feel like the past several months (all the things we did together were a complete lie) my 10 year anniversay is a lie - how could she have sex with another man 4 days before a milestone in our lives and talk to him on the phone on our anniversary and have an online sex chat session the day after.
All of our conversations seem to somehow tie back to the affair and I understand it has only been 12 days now since I discovered it. How could I have been so disconnected from my wife that I did not see all of this.
You're going to do well.
Hang in there.
You should probably talk to your physician about your depression/anxiety symptoms.
We call this a roller coaster ride, for a reason.
Fasten your seatbelt, and HANG ON !
SCREAMING is allowed (on the forum, not at home)
My wife has stated the reason she continued to hide the details of the affair (something as simple as who purchaed the baseball tickets for the game you the the other man attend) were her way of not adding to the pain/hurt I am going through.
Yep. Typical.
I know that the affair started as just idle chit chat on the computer and turned into "how bad both of their marriages were" and "what their spouses where doing wrong or not doing at all". I feel that I let this happen but not paying attention to all the signs right in front of my face.
Yep. Typical. Except: you've got to learn that you IN NO WAY caused your WW to have an A. She made that decision
all on her own. I don't care if you had a totally lousy marriage. Having an affair is a selfish decision that is made
outside of the marriage by one individual. I can't stop thinking about if I would have done this or would have done that - all of this would not have happened. I know she made the decision to not confront me about what was wrong in our marriage just as much as I didn't confront her or myself with what was wrong. I also know her and her alone decided to lie, deceive and finally cheat on a physical level.
Keep saying that til it's ingrained within you.
I feel like the past several months (all the things we did together were a complete lie) my 10 year anniversay is a lie - how could she have sex with another man 4 days before a milestone in our lives and talk to him on the phone on our anniversary and have an online sex chat session the day after.
The amount of time over the past several months that she has communicated with the other man is amazing to me, what did that have to talk on the phone about, text about, chat online about and how could she just be able to walk away with out looking back, without a withdrawl (I am happy if this is the case as I don't know if I would be stong enough to go through seeing her missing another man that she became emotional attached to and had sexaul relations with).
We feel ya.
All of our conversations seem to somehow tie back to the affair and I understand it has only been 12 days now since I discovered it. How could I have been so disconnected from my wife that I did not see all of this. I am ashamed of myself - I have so much hurt / pain / hopelessness - but know that she is trying just as hard as I am.
Yep. Typical. It's going to be like this for awhile. It'll be the last thing on your mind before you fall asleep, and the first thing on your mind when you wake up. He77, it'll even wake you up in the middle of the night!
But: IT GETS BETTER. Scrawl that on your bathroom mirror. Post-it note it on your fridge. Put it on a sticky note and attach it to your steering wheel. IT GETS BETTER.
Sorry for the long post - I just had to get this off my chest.
Yep. Typical.
So - Am I on the right path?
I know that when I would come home and not pay attention to my wife, when I didn't talk to her about her day, when I didn't take part in the chores, (when I didn't participate in life) she found someone else to. Her fault not mine, she could have screamed, she could have yelled and she could have done what was necessary to get my attention.
So I have, since finding out about the affair - started to participate, I empty the dish washer, I call her often to discuss her day, I talk with her after our work day is over. I stay up later than 8:30pm to spend time with her, I don't allow us to go to bed at seperate times.
I feel I am doing and doing and doing because I wasn't in the past but is this the right course of action, is this what I am supposed to be doing? It does make me happy, knowing that I am making her happy again and in return she is investing time back in me and not someone else.
I don't want her to get the false sense that I have "brushed this affair under the rug" because I am taking an active role in making us work again.
The pain is right under the surface and can and will come boiling up to the top at any given moment. For instance going to the bar that she met the other man (a place that we always went, we took all of our out of town visitors).
I guess how I deal with those issues will be the true testiment to if things are getting better for me.
Pep -
Thanks, I have ordered Fall in Love, Stay in Love and His Needs, Her Needs. I will add that one to my list.
JP
Tell your WW you will stop talking about the Affair after she has answered all of your questions.
The pain is right under the surface and can and will come boiling up to the top at any given moment. For instance going to the bar that she met the other man (a place that we always went, we took all of our out of town visitors).
I guess how I deal with those issues will be the true testiment to if things are getting better for me.
jpowell, you are doing great!! Except this last part. You will want to AVOID places and things that trigger you so cross that bar off your list. That is how you should deal with it - DON'T GO THERE. It will take a few years to get over these triggers, so you both should avoid them.
And she most certainly should avoid going out alone or doing anything that might make it easy for her to resume her affair.
My husband empties the dishwasher now too. That made me giggle. It sounds like you are on the right path. She is lucky to have you.
Thank you all.
We had a great day yesterday, we talked on the phone, we met and had dinner after work. We went home and had great conversation. It was finally not about the affair and then:
While she was on FB (I was at the computer with her) she was going through some mobile uploaded pictures and there were two pictures from the weekend she went to visit her friend. They were of her and her girlfriend and her and the girlfreinds children and like a Mack Truck - I was hit with all of the emotional pain again.
All I could think about was her meeting up with the other man, how they had sex together two nights, how she woke up in bed with him two mornings in a row. How I called on Tuesday morning and she answered the phone and she was with him. I broke down and started crying uncontrolably. UPS and DOWNS - just like a rollercoaster!
MelodyLane - How can I not go there, how can I stop going to the places that have always made me happy. How can I reclaim my town without facing it head on. I am running the 1/2 marathon this weekend and will be running right down town. I wish I could erase the memories but I can't and I won't let what they did drive me out of my own town.
Jay
MelodyLane - How can I not go there, how can I stop going to the places that have always made me happy. How can I reclaim my town without facing it head on. I am running the 1/2 marathon this weekend and will be running right down town. I wish I could erase the memories but I can't and I won't let what they did drive me out of my own town.
Jay
jpowell, in your vulnerable state, those triggers are going to reclaim YOU and hinder your recovery. They represent a terrible tragedy. It is too soon to trigger yourself like that. Better to wait a few years until you are stronger in your recovery and THEN reclaim them.
MelodyLane - How can I not go there, how can I stop going to the places that have always made me happy. How can I reclaim my town without facing it head on. I am running the 1/2 marathon this weekend and will be running right down town. I wish I could erase the memories but I can't and I won't let what they did drive me out of my own town.
j, there's this great little italian eatery not too far from us. H & I used to go there frequently, before his A. It's been almost a year and & half now since we've gone. Because he took the OW there for lunch once during their A. Applebee's is out for us, too, for the same reason.
You may not be able to go back to some places. You may need to find new places and have happy experiences there. The time may come when those places won't trigger you. Until then don't concentrate on the places where you can't go, concentrate on where you
can go.
Your D-Day is very recent. You are, IMO, rushing recovery. Give yourself time to heal, to calm down, to regain strength and trust. Nurture yourself and your M, don't push it.
Thanks again for your words of wisdom. I understand that I am probablly rushing recovery - I know there isn't a magic shutoff switch to turn off the emotions I am feeling.
I question if I will I ever be able to go to a baseball game again without thinking that is where they went, how will I be the next time we have to stay in a hotel, any hotel, knowing that they did.
I forced myself to go into the bar they met up at, I had one beer asked where they sat and sat in the same booth they sat in. Did it help, I can't be for sure but I felt a little sense of power amoung all the pain. I felt like I stood up and yelled this is my town and you can't have it. It may sound stupid put this is how I felt even if it was for a short moment. It was like facing my biggest fear head on (perhaps too soon though).
I would like to think there is a day in the future that the topic of our conversations will not turn back to the affair. The wounds are fresh and get reopened when I find new things to ask.
Jay
IMHO, it's too soon for you to try to be reclaiming these things. Some things may be able to reclaimed eventually, but by pushing it too soon you are hindering your R. It only gets those movies in your mind going and keeps your thoughts on that crazy hamster-wheel-of-thoughts-about-the-affair.
We actually moved out of state in order to avoid many triggers. It was a tough decision but the best thing we could have done for our recovery. Now when we go back enough time has passed that I don't trigger like I used to....the triggering isn't completely gone but it's definitely lessened.
Getting into a good, solid recovery is crucial as well.
I'm sorry you are hurting....recovery is gnarly and not for wimps.
Hi Jay,
Sorry that you are here, but glad you found MB. I have only been here recently myself.
I would advise caution re: no withdrawl. My husband also said he was not feeling withdrawl and it turned out that was because she was emailing him from an account I didn't know he had and calling him on his work phone. He was proud of himself because they were no longer physical and he was telling her how WE were doing. Ugh.
I find myself obsessing over the details often and have asked him for the full story multiple times...only realizing recently that he was leaving out parts to make it "easier" on me. I have asked him to write out the whole story, every detail, so that I can see it and hopefully be done.
There are good days and bad days as everyone has said. When he tells me I am using angry outbursts it is all I can do to not take his head off and yell YOU DESERVE IT!!!! But who would that help.
I can tell you reading Surviving an Affair has been helpful to both of us and reading other blogs. We are also getting counseling which keeps us working.
It is hard, really hard, but the alternative is worse to me!!
I'm not a veteran here, but from my own experience of being betrayed, the questions go on for months! My WH is patient with me most of the time. I still ask questions, though not as many as the first couple months. I'm hopeing at some point I will have asked "all" the questions....though I doubt it.
I still look through his blackberry each night. And he willing answers anything I may ask. He understands that he is responsible for the me "having" to do that and takes full responsibility.
You have a long road ahead, as do I. The MB site has been key in my recovering! Hang in there!
I will take your advice and refrain from going to the places that cause me so much pain (that allow my mind to start playing back what I know of the affair).
The reason I know that this is the correct thing to do is: I drove downtown to pick up my race packet for this Saturday's 1/2 marathon and as I got closer and closer to downtown my chest got tighter and tighter to the point I almost had a panic attack.
We have some friends coming to town to visit and run it with me and I am not sure how I will hold up (they do not know about the affair).
I do worry about the (NO WITHDRAWL) thing. I worry she emails him from her work account or uses her work LAN line phone to call him and I do not have a way to check that. I have to just believe that it is not happening, which everyone knows it is hard to believe after you have found out about so many lies.
Thanks to everyone who has posted here. I have read just about all of the Q&A's and read several of the posts in the forum. I bet I spend about 2.5 hours a day on this site reading and reflecting.
I wait for my books to arrive so I can start reading them as well.
Good luck to everyone, I know I will need it as well.
Jay
Recovering a M after adultery is a long, hard, painful journey. The MB plan provides for not just M recovery but personal R as well. Plan A as become a permanent part of my life in that I strive to continue to meet my DH's ENs, eliminate LBs and be the best me that I can possibly be. I don't intend to neglect my DH or myself ever again.
You will go through many changes in the coming months and you will find that there is always someone here that is going through it too or has been through it. You will not find that IRL.
God's Blessings,
Say
Another sleepless night ---
I know this recovery process is a long, hard, painful journey. And it sure does suck but I know it is worth more to me to go through this than it is to give up.
We discussed the last physical contact - all aspects, kissing, hand holding, locations where they ate, when she checked into the hotel, when he got there, pretty much everything I could think of to ask at that particular time.
We went to bed around 10pm and I woke up in a panic around 11:30pm remembering she purchased a shirt for the opening day game. I got up went and checked the bank statement and found out it was 10 days prior to that weekend. I woke my wife up with the question of how long before the weekend did she know she was going to see him and insisted she throw the shirt in the trash.
Needless to say I never fully got back to bed. We did make love in the morning and it made me feel better emotionally also...
It sometimes feel like I just found out though. Two weeks after DDay and it doesn't feel like I have made much progress. I guess like anything else (1 day at a time).
Thanks for reading.
JP
Two weeks after DDay and it doesn't feel like I have made much progress.
Remember, this will take a long time, even when both spouses are walking the walk.
Two weeks is brand new.
It WILL get better, in a few more weeks.
Then it will get worse, a few months after that.
Then it will get better again.
Thanks for posting. Seriously.
My resentement for my H first A never went away because my H was not sorry at all for what he did even if he did tell me all the details of the A.
Do you get the impression that you W is totally on board in this R process. What is your gut feeling about it?
blessing
I do believe she is committed to our recovery. I see the pain she feels, she has told me that her pain is from what she did and the impact it has had on me.
I do believe my wife loves me and that she made the biggest mistake of her (OUR) life and she wants to take it all back.
I also feel that I sent the NC email, she was there when I sent it (I guess I didn't really give her the choice on that one) - based on everything that I have access to she has not had contact with him. His wife does not know and unless he tries to contact my wife I don't intend on telling her (it is not my responsibility) as long as my wife has NC I am working on my marriage and don't care about the other man's marriage w/ his wife (they have 1 child also).
There was another guy friend that she chatted with from time to time and I asked her to send a NC email to him, and then asked again and then again until it finally happened.
I asked her after I found out about the affair - to throw out the shirt she purchased for the baseball game that she went to with him but she didn't until I had a break down near midnight last night and then she threw it in the trash.
I have asked her to contact her girlfriend that she used to cover up the trip at the beginning of this month and tell her that I know everything and that she is not welcome to visit us and my wife is not welcome to visit them unless I am there (which will not happen) - she still hasn't done that.
So yes I believe that my wife is on board - but needs to still take care of these requests. I don't want to put demands on her, I want her to do this freely because it is something that will/should help our recovery.
JP
Another sleepless night ---
I know this recovery process is a long, hard, painful journey. And it sure does suck but I know it is worth more to me to go through this than it is to give up.
We discussed the last physical contact - all aspects, kissing, hand holding, locations where they ate, when she checked into the hotel, when he got there, pretty much everything I could think of to ask at that particular time.
We went to bed around 10pm and I woke up in a panic around 11:30pm remembering she purchased a shirt for the opening day game. I got up went and checked the bank statement and found out it was 10 days prior to that weekend. I woke my wife up with the question of how long before the weekend did she know she was going to see him and insisted she throw the shirt in the trash.
Needless to say I never fully got back to bed. We did make love in the morning and it made me feel better emotionally also...
It sometimes feel like I just found out though. Two weeks after DDay and it doesn't feel like I have made much progress. I guess like anything else (1 day at a time).
Thanks for reading.
JP
Sounds like me, jp. I can't remember how many nights I woke up FWH, but there were plenty.
Stuff that had to go: a great navy pea coat and really cool necklace he bought me for Christmas. I just couldn't keep them after realizing he'd bought them and then called OW to talk to her while on his way home from buying them.
I made him sell his car because she'd been in it and they'd been in their clenches in it.
GREAT WEEKEND
Ran the 1/2 marathon & spent some quality time with my wife. Both Saturday and Sunday our conversation turned to the affair at one point & she had a break down this time but for the most part both days were spent talking and being there with each other reconnecting.
I had to run by the bar that they met up at and the hotel she slept with him at and although the hamster in my head started running 100 miles an hour, I didn't let it ruin my run, I pushed them thoughts out and focused on finishing the 13.1 miles.
My wife was at the finish line waiting and cheering me on. I felt great and was happy that she was there.
Hope everyone else had a great weekend.
Jay
Jay, congratulations on the half! I ran one two weeks ago. Non-runners will never know how exhilarating this can be.
I also wish to congratulate you on the progress you have made here in such a short time. Please keep us posted.
Jay, congratulations on the half! I ran one two weeks ago. Non-runners will never know how exhilarating this can be.
I also wish to congratulate you on the progress you have made here in such a short time. Please keep us posted.
Hey, I've got a 5K coming up in two weeks! 'Course, that pales in comparison to a half marathon...
Hey, I've got a 5K coming up in two weeks! 'Course, that pales in comparison to a half marathon...
There is no such thing as a bad run. A run around the block is better than always sitting at home in front of the TV...
Hi JP,
His wife does not know and unless he tries to contact my wife I don't intend on telling her (it is not my responsibility) as long as my wife has NC I am working on my marriage and don't care about the other man's marriage w/ his wife (they have 1 child also).
You MUST tell this man's wife. Exposure is key to keeping this affair from flaring up again. And his wife needs to know.
What if OM's wife felt the same way, and he never told YOU and YOU were the one in the dark?
It's also an important step in recovery. Your WW needs to apologize to OM's wife.
Recovery is not easy... hang tuff!
Thanks everyone. It was a good weekend and at times it feels like the recovery is in the right track but other times it feels like I am going no where. Last night I was up at 3am and couldn't get back to sleep. I was angry that this has happened, hurt also but more angry that my wife could do something like this.
It went from chatting in mid-December, to phone calls, text and chatting in January to sleeping with this guy in early February. My wife is a very beautiful women and this other man is a complete slob - I just can not wrap my head around this...
Fred - Thanks, It was a great accomplishment for me. I finished it in 2hr 11min 3sec. With all the stress and situation that I am going through I think I did rather well.
Maritalbliss - Good luck on the 5K & thanks for all the kind words.
Drucilla - I agree she has the right to know and I understand what you are saying and the last thing I want is this thing starting up again & what if she knew but took my stance, I would remain in the dark (honestly I think ignorance is bliss)as long as the affair is dead that is. I am still not going to address it unless I see he has tried to contact my wife or my wife has tried to contact him.
The only other people that know about the affair is my wife's friend that helped cover for her when she went to the opening day with the other man and our best friends that were here this weekend.
Thanks again.
Jay
Drucilla - I agree she has the right to know and I understand what you are saying and the last thing I want is this thing starting up again & what if she knew but took my stance, I would remain in the dark (honestly I think ignorance is bliss)as long as the affair is dead that is. I am still not going to address it unless I see he has tried to contact my wife or my wife has tried to contact him.
I thought the same thing. That covering up the truth that might hurt my wife is actually a good or honorable thing to do. And why rock the boat?
And after all, I will tell OMW, if...
Well, eventually I had to tell her because all the "if-s" actually came true. Speaking about false recovery here and months of my life wasted.
So this is where you are headed to also.
In time you will start thinking that OM and your WW got away with terrible crime against you. And you just have to suck it up and living with it daily.
So, instead of it, please follow the advice that you have got from these forums.
So can anyone make sense of this:
On my way to the Outback Steakhouse I asked my wife these questions:
� what had you going back for more?
- Was it that is was great sex?
- Was it the thrill of sneaking around?
- Was it emotional fulfillment?
Dinner was good. We shared a dinner and had a few drinks and talked. We got home and talked about different things. The subject got back on the questions I had asked in my text.
Wife said it wasn't because of great sex, it wasn't the thrill of sneaking around, she said it was about emotional fulfillment and companionship. She also said they had a lot in common. Then she said it was partly due to her sense of empowerment (power of him).
Background on this - he is an ex-boyfriend that caused some of my wife's some serious emotional problems.
She said in your first relationship with him, he had all the power and she felt that this time "it was look at me, look at what I have become" and she said she had the power over him. I asked her, I would like you to try and make me understand (at that time) how you felt you had power over him.
Because my wife already knows my opinion on this - she didn't have any power, every time he sent her a text she responded, every time he called, she answered or returned his call (heck even when I would call and interrupt their conversation) she would call him back. And finally he suggested she meet him downtown (she did), he suggested she go back to his room (she did) and he suggested she meet him in Pittsburg and (again she did). It seems to me that he had the power to manipulate and control her into doing what he wanted.
So - what goes on in the mind of a cheater? I could see if she was the one making the plays, calling the shots - then I could believe it was a sense of empowerment.
Thanks to all.
Jay
Jay,
I have been composing a thread from the mind of a WW but it isn't quite completed yet. In the meantime, I think I can offer some insight for you. First of all please realize that if/when your wife answers your questions, the answers will most likely change. This isn't because she is intentionally lying but more because she is defogging and seeing how things really are.
I can tell you in my situation it wasn't the sex and it wasn't the thrill of sneaking around (in fact, I hated that part because it interferred with my fantasy.) There was definitely emotional fulfillment. My affair was a PA but I can honestly say I would have been just as happy in an EA.
As for the power thing, I kinda get that. My OM was an old boyfriend as well. I don't think he caused me any emotional distress in the past, but I think I liked the "look what you missed out on" approach.
I think the thing I got (or imagined I was getting) was acceptance. OM loved me for who I was, not what I did for him. I see now that this was make-believe at its finest. I felt very judged in my marriage and here was OM telling me I could do no wrong. Of course I could do no wrong because I wasn't taking care of his house or raising his kids. He didn't care if I was sloppy or lazy or spent scads of money because those things didn't affect him.
You are looking at her affair as an outside observer so her lack of power is obvious to you but it probably wasn't to her at the time and it may not be for awhile. You pointing it out to her is just going to make her feel persecuted. I would imagine that she is already thinking of these things herself but isn't ready to admit how weak she was (and how stupid). Remember I can make derisive comments about myself all day long but if someone else (my husband) makes them, I automatically go on the defense.
Just so you know my husband still struggles with this stuff. I can honestly say that now, I don't really think of the OM except when he continually brings him up. It is when he is at his most judgemental, that I have to work on to fight of the urge to imagine my make-believe life with OM where I don't have to feel this pain. It is well worth the effort.
I hope this helps. I know it sounds trite but it really wasn't about you....it was about her and she will hopefully see that too.
sunny that was a great post.
Yes - Thank you for your post. I believe my wife felt she had power over him (but once I disected what she was saying).
She broke down into tears and said "I have let this person sink me to my lowest spot in my life for a second time" Why do I do this?
I didn't want to make her feel this way - I was simply looking for the answer to the question WHY?
JP