Hello,

My brother directed me to this site....I'm in desperate times. My husband and I have been married for 20 years this June and we have four children from 7-14. Our marriage has been bad for some time, but noticeable differences as of recent are a sudden hatred toward me....telling me things he hates about me and our marriage and then using these fights to take off for hours and in the middle of day on weekends. I started asking if he was having an affair, but of course the answer was no. Then, wanting to go to doctor for testing and such...made me wonder as i can't ever get him to go to the doctor for anything.
To make a very long story short, I found his bank card statement and noticed that on one weekend he came back to town earlier than when he walked through our door. He was leaving for another weekend to his camp. Once I discovered the statement, I decided to wait at a location that he stopped at various times. Sure enough, at the right time, here he comes. I couldn't keep up so I called him and asked where he was...he said on 35, then i said no your not I'm behind you on another street. This of course started a whole fight and his threatening to leave. He denied everything and said that he was cutting through to another road. Then later, on the same statement, i found something for ftd flowers. Again, he said that the flower were for his sister....another lie. i called ftd and they asked for the recipients name and it was not his sister. At this point, he confeses that our marriage has been so bad that he did pursue this woman, but she doesn't want anything to do with him. He says he will go to counseling with me and see what happens.
My fear: How do I know if he's telling me the truth? What if it's not broken off? He says the incident with the road and the flowers have nothing to do with each other. I'm scared he is just putting me off until he figures what to do. I want our marriage to work, but I can't compete with another woman as that has been made clear in some of the articles I've read here. He says he met her at a grocery store??? Really, I found that hard to believe. Talking to others that really know me doesn't help...everyone has differing opinions...leave him, lock him out, etc. I'm just so confused and I can hardly breathe.

This is the time where you need to do whatever you can to snoop, snoop, snoop and find out exactly what is going on.

Look at his phone records, computer, credit card statements, etc. Don't confront him with every piece of evidence you have, just go about collecting as much info. as you can right now. And do not let him know about this place! (great advice from your brother, by the way).

Do you know OW? If so, is she married? If not, since you know her name get busy and find out as much as you can about her. You will need to know as much as possible because there will come a day (soon hopefully) where you will expose their affair to everyone!

He isn't telling you the truth. He may be telling you part of the truth or it may all be a lie. He just lied about who the flowers went to and which road he was on. They may be connected, they may not. What you do know is that he lies (sends flowers to women) and when caught he continues to lie (they were for my sister). So nothing he says now can be trusted to be the truth.

SidneyT is right! SNOOP! Check his cell phone constantly. If he lays it down, grab it and go into the bathroom with the door locked. Check for texts, deleted messages, and if he gets email on it check that.

Check the computer. He may have email accounts you don't know exist.

Check the car for items (condoms, etc.) and check the mileage.

Check your credit cards for other receipts - hotels, gas at gas stations in places where he should not be, gifts.

Check your cell phone records - how far back did this go?

Once you know who the OW is, expose it to her H, friends, family, work, etc.

higgs, we need you to calm down. We can help you save your marriage if you will calm down and follow a PLAN. Can you do that?

Many of us here have saved our marriages, but we had to control our emotions long enough to follow a STRATEGIC PLAN. This is a very emotional situation and betrayed spouses typically make very stupid mistakes at this point.

Can you calm down? If you can do that, we can help you get to work to kill this affair and save your marriage.

Welcome to Marriage Builders, sorry you are here.

I am glad that your brother sent you to this site. Have you read all of the articles and all of the items about Surviving Infidelity? Have you read any threads? Do you know what Plan A is? If not, you will need to read up on it. What are your H's ENs? What LBs are you guilty of and how are you going to avoid doing them?

You most definitely will need to snoop so you can figure out who OW is and what you are fighting. Are you ready for this?

Welcome to Marriage Builders. I agree, take a breath, and now is time to plan. Many of the vets are awesome at helping you formulate a good, solid plan. Listen to their words of wisdom.

Hugs.

So sorry you are here, but you will get good help here.

First...Read, Read and Read this website, also find out who this OW is by snooping....but I also want to add about the hatred about you and your marriage and everything you do...its a sure sign of an affair (please do not take it personal) and this is a good website to help you with the best way to try and save this marriage.

You are getting very good advice. Another thing to do is to not tell him anything about your snooping and make sure you come here with evidence and not give it away to him. He'll just try to explain it away, and he'll figure out that you're snooping.

Trust me, snooping works. Even after I confessed my A four years ago, DH snooped and found out when I tried to contact OM again. His vigilance nipped it in the bud.

higgs,

So sorry you are here, Mel is right...you need to calm down, take a deep breath, and get ready to formulate a PLAN.

We have all been exactly where you are right now, we know how hard it is and how crazed you feel. We truly do understand.

You need to start snooping. DO NOT GIVE YOUR H ANY REASON TO BELIEVE YOU ARE SNOOPING! Here are a few ways to get started on this:

~check his cell phone usage and do a reverse lookup on any numbers you don't recognize
~put a keylogger on his computer
~get a Voice Activated Recorder (VAR) and hide it in his car
~get a GPS and hide it in his car

Where are you going to start? He is having an A and you already know this and now you need to know how entrenched it was and if it's over (it's not, we can tell you that right now).

I'm sorry you are here too. You will get tons of help here and the best chance at saving your M but PLEASE listen to the awesome advice you will get!
~hire a P.I. if you want to do this the fast way

Thanks for all the advice,

I think I've made too many mistakes already...it was already difficult to find what I found. My husband keeps keys and phone in a lockbox in garage. I just so happen to know the code....,but when I retrieve the phone, there's a passcode...can't get around it. I don't know who the OW is....I questioned more today and he said that she was locked out of her car and he was helping her....and then they became locked in and she showed interest. According to him, he says she found out that he was married and said forget it. What I fear is that he wants to free himself from me in order for her to say yes. He told me he would go to counseling sessions, so any recommendations woud be appreciated.
I'll post more later tonight, but he's a huge security person anyway, so he protects everything. I don't understand why he won't say, yes, let's work on it. There's nothing on credit card statements and his phone records don't list anything other than minutes. What I found out took a lot of effort.

higgs, the first thing you need to do is STOP ASKING HIM ABOUT HIS AFFAIR. That is a bad idea. Stop it.

I would hire a PI to follow him or put a GPS on his car. You can also put a voice activated digital recorder in his car. Radio Shack sells them. Can you access his cell phone bill online?

Forget counseling! You need to find out WHO the OW is so we can help you kill the affair.

Do you have the name and address of the person he sent the flowers to? That is the OW, correct?

If so, give the PI this information.

Higgs, sorry you found yourself here.

Take a breathe and stop looking for your H to confirm or deny. He will lie lie lie. It is normal when they do this and he is gaslighting you.

Be silent, watch. Get a keylogger and install onto his computer. Try to register his phone on line so you can access the phone records. Tip: when you do this make sure you have access to his phone because they usually sent the initial password in text to the cell phone requesting.

He is hiding and protecting the OW. Get the OW name from the florist and google and look on FB. If you can afford it hire a PI. Say NOTHING to H. He will just go more underground worried about discovery.

take care.

The quickest and easiest (for you) to confirm he's having an A and who the OW is would be a P.I.

If you don't have a way to pay for this without him finding out, do you know someone (a family member perhaps) who could loan you the money?

Your WH will LIE right to your face, even when you have PROOF he will try to tell you it is something else and say, "How dare you not trust ME! I can't believe you are snooping. If you do that anymore I am DONE." Don't believe it, it is all a bunch of GARBAGE. Think of him as the teacher from Peanuts and hear, "wah wah wah wah wah." This is why you don't show your hand, it will do no good.

Here are some threads you can read as well as all of the DrH info.

BS Be still

Reverse Babble

Plan A

Plan A

That should keep you busy

Yes, Your marriage cannot be saved until you kill this affair. And he is NOT going to help you do that right now.

They go to counseling, they waffle back and forth, all the while still seeing OW...Waywards lie. He will NOT tell you he is still seeing OW. He will lie to keep the affair going. We need to KILL this...First...and you need to do it behind his back to have a chance to save your marriage.

Ok, I hear you!!!! I can't tell you how much I ache on the inside and breakdown crying at the drop of a hat. He's been telling me that he doesn't know if he wants to make it work....and how he doesn't remember when the last time he was physically attracted to me. My weight has been a long time issue....I've lost 50lbs and now it is really coming off with all this.
Anyway, yes I've tried to access his phone records online and I've tried familiar passwords, but his company does send a text to his phone, so that was out. I checked credit cards, searched his truck and console for anything...I found nothing. I think the bank statement was an accident; he left it on his workbench and i snatched it and began looking. The funny thing is that I never noticed most of the things I found until looking at it later. In regards to the flower connection, once I got the recipient name wrong, FTD would not tell me anything more...policy. I have no idea who it is. I've contacted a PI...$75 an hour and I plan on using it. Should i wait till things settle or start now? Where do you get the passcode thingy? Do I even have a chance here? I feel so helpless, and it's very hard for me to keep quiet about the affair....so hard. I'll try though. In the meantime, I'll work on these articles.

Yes, there is lots of hope, higgs. But you must do 2 things. Can you focus on these 2 things?

1. find out who the OW is. Do it asap and then come back here. Do not say anything - I MEAN NOTHING - to your husband. Don't ask him anymore about this

2. be calm and pleasant and attractive to your husband. No crying, begging, pleading, accusing,yelling. NO NOTHING. Act like a Stepford wife

Then come back here and tell us what you find out about the OW. Then we will help you get to work.

Can you do this?

ok, yes...I have been crying, pleading,etc... have i ruined it? I will stop...it's hard, but I will do it. Yes, I can do this.

Make yourself stop, hon. It does not help. It makes you unattractive and makes the OW seem attractive. You don't want to make that skankho seem attractive, do you?

PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER. Clean up the house, clean yourself up, get your nails and toes done and put on some nice make up.

We will help you get your husband back if you stick with us, ok? but you have to be SMART and not emotional. Your emotions are your biggest enemy right now. So tell them to go away for now, we are busy.

This will be ALL RIGHT, higgs. You will be ok.

Can you please call the doctor on Monday and ask him to prescribe some anti-depressants? This will help you get through this.

Ok, this is something you can work on now. Work on making yourself as attractive as possible. How much weight do you need to lose? Now would be a great time to start a diet and an exercise program.

The plan you should be in is called Plan A. It is described in the book Surviving an Affair by Dr Harley. Can you please go get it tomorrow at the book store? It will help you understand what we are talking about.

Here is an outline of Plan A made by another poster:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

go read this whole thread: here

How do I discover his emotional needs? Do I start on that now even though I'm looking for OW? I know two are probably physicall attraction and affirmation....those are two I am sure of. Do I ask him to take the test or figure it out myself? Thanks for all the help.

Please listen to Melody. She is right on.

Go to your doctor on Monday and get some anti-depressants. I am 46, have advanced degrees, and work in healthcare. I was so proud that I never took meds for any mood issues until now - but I sobbed through my entire STD testing last fall (and it doesn't hurt at all - just a swab and some blood tests). My OB/GYN insisted I take ADs and she was so right. She told me that half the women in her practice have dealt with this issue.

You can cope better with the meds.

I am trying on my weight...it actualy started a few months ago. I found out that I was diabetic, started losing weight from symptoms and then after getting sugar under control, it's been falling off, but too late I guess. I've lost 10 more lbs in just this one week from not eating.
So, he knows I'm actively losing weight...I've lost 50lbs at this point.....but it's going to take time.
He's coming home today from a weekend trip to his sisters...I've checked; he's there. I'm trying to make everything at the house look great and secure, but it's hard. Our house has many issues that need serious recovery...I guess just anything at this point would be helpful.
I'm so thankful of the help here...thanks so much to everyone. I'm in prayer daily asking God to heal this.

Congrats on the 50lbs, I know that is not easy....try to eat healthy food right now, even though I know from experience that is not easy right now because you have lost your appetite...you dont want to get sick....and the Ad's were a livesaver, literally, for me. You are getting great advice from one of the best, Melodylane, so listen to her.

We are here for support. I cried begged and pleaded, It didnt work. I know it is VERY hard but try your best not to do that, K? Oh Hon, I hate to see anyone goin thru this right now, I know it is horrible, just hang in there, k? I have experienced it, and I know you will be okay. You are lucky. You found us early on, I found this website a little too late.....Good Luck.

Ok, I have to keep writing so I don't lose my mind. Here's what I have done. I remember my mom making a comment to me that it seems that my husband is so happy when things are clean, picked up, or fixed up. One of our issues is my selling on Ebay. I have junk everywhere...I love doing it, but it's been the final blow in our marriage. I see that now. Anyway, I'm not doing it anymore for awhile...I've got to start pouring my money and time into my house and marriage. So, early this morning, I cleaned the dreaded Ebay room, put my dishes out on the shelf again, hung pictures, swept, cleaned, burned candles, and made it all look nice. I hope it deposits a lot of points. I'm waiting to get paid to get started on some of the things everyone has suggested in regards to snooping. That will be Wednesday. I have been going through the teacher roster at my husband's school and caling ftd back with varying names. I thought since I can't do too much today, I would at least see if he sees this person everyday at work. There's a lot of names. When I call, they let me try 2 or 3 names each time. Soooo, doing all this helps me keep my mind off it. I keep wanting to call him, but I'm holding back. Just had to writing a little...no one need respond. What would the whole wanting the house to look great thing be for an emotional need? What does that fall under...affirmation?

That is domestic support! Good job on getting the house cleaned up! How do you look today? Do you have on a nice outfit? Is your hair and makeup done?

Also, if you are diabetic, are you on a healthy low carb diet? I know quite a few folks who followed a low carb diet and were able to lose a ton of weight and get their blood sugar under control doing this. They followed this guy here with great success: here

higgs, this is the kind of thing that can erode the love in a marriage. If you do things you know annoys your spouse, it sends the message that you don't care about his feelings. It also ERODES the love he feels for you. I would stop this completely and let him know it was a mistake to continue doing it when he told you he didn't like it.

higgs, what is this about? What did he get tested?

Thanks Melody,

I have quit it completely. I've had a few things on that end tonight and then that's it. Anything else that I have to do with it will be when he is not home...like mailing, etc....then no more.
I did clean-up and fixed my hair...a litte makeup as he is not a big makeup person. I don't feel very pretty right now, so I'm wondering if he will even notice. He's still not home and I keep waiting for him to call and tell me he's not coming. I have been good and not called him at all today...it's been hard not to call and ask when he is coming home, etc.
I am controlling my diet with low carb and all whole wheat. Right now I'm just forcing myself to eat little things now and then...no way a whole meal...makes me want to throw up.

When I'm not cleaning or on here, I'm praying for God to heal and praising him for all he has done for me. I continue to hope.

Higgs,

I noticed that when I was still at home that I did my hair and makeup everyday and I was so sure my WH didn't notice. At least that's what it felt like.

When we had our FR, he admitted that he had indeed noticed that I was taking care of myself and wearing makeup and fixing my hair and would like to see more! He even suggested going to the beauty counters of the department stores just to get tips and mini-makeovers! And in 7 1/2 years of being together, it was a RARE occasion that I wore makeup before all the crap happened.

So, point of the story is, don't think they don't notice. They do, even if they don't show it. Keep doing that, as one way of showing how you are taking care of you.

Higgs,

Read the "inside the wayward mind" thread that N2F bumped. It talks about this exact thing and how to use it to YOUR advantage.

Melody,

I guess I'll just lay out the most personal details here. About the doctor part. When I was 18, my boyfriend messed around on me and then passed a lovely VD on to me....a lifelong gift. Anyway, my husband and I were both going to college to be in the ministry and we had the same goal in mind. I told him on our first official date that I had this problem. He didn't care at all. I wanted to tell him up front as I knew we were so interested in each other. I didn't want to get hurt. Anyway, last week, he told me he was going to the doctor to get blood work and protrate tested....seemed adament about getting it done in a hurry.
He then asked me if there was a test for H. I told him I wasn't sure, but why was he asking? He said that if he had an issue, he didn't always want to borrow my meds. I said, "I thought you told me you had it...he's mentioned several times that he's had things come up that were suspicious. (This was another bell that went off in my head) He also said the he wanted to be sure as to whether he had it or not.

He's got a lot that could interfere....H, 4kids, he claims he's impotent, and I'm his 3rd wife, this is my first marriage. He is also 12 years older than me. He told me when we were dating that the good thing about an older man is that he is past all the cheating stuff. Although he did cheat on his first wife as well.

I never thought that I would be here....we were in the ministry together for 7 years and both wanting to serve God and love the Lord with all our heart soul and mind. When we made a move and he had several failed career opportunities, things went really bad. He pulled away from God, started seperating himself from me by going to Lake by himself(he told me I could not go there; it was his kicken spot....Ok.

I guess that's it in a nutshell

Where's the link for inside the wayword mind? I can't find it.

Ok, I guess I've called ftd enough that they may be getting suspicious. ANyway, someone messed up and gave me the name of florist....now, my question is when people order flowers, does ftd usually try to choose a florist nearby? I don't know that I really discovered anything. I mentioned more name, but nothing.

I am sure you aren't the first, nor will you be the last, spouse to call FTD to find out who their spouse sent flowers.

They do usually try to chose a florist nearby the delivery site.

Ok, husband just called and he's staying another night with his sister. He told me I could call her if I wanted. (to check I guess) Sister's husband is dying and on hospice right now. He's staying there with her through this time...at least for the weekend. (I'm beyond trying to tell if he's lying) Anyway, the house is at least still clean.
I contacted PI and it's going to be $1000 retainer. Does that sound normal? He said that if it's caught early, then they refund the overage. He will put a gps in truck, something on computer. Of course he drives out when he's somewhere suspicious.

I've been good today and not calling him...he's now called twice. This time, he offered to send my parents to check to see he was there....I don't know what to make of that one. Anyway, I was pleasant and understanding and gave him my full attention.

He told me that he understands the whole trust thing...I just would say ok, etc. I never dove into a converstaion about the affair. I was happy that I remained so calm.

higgs, that sounds about right. I would make sure they start on a night or day when he is most likely to be in contact. And have them watch him at LUNCH if they can. Many affairs are conducted over lunch.

do you believe this? I don't. Can you call the sisters house?

I sugggest you call the sister. Even if he is there, it will show him that you are indeed checking.

I don't know about the PI pricing but it seems reasonable to me.

It will save your sanity at least...going to great lengths to snoop on your beloved spouse can take it's toll on your health and sanity.

Was he divorced when you met him?

No, he wasn't married. I was fresh out of college and we had the same goals. He had been divorced about a year...not his choice.

I'm having darling daughter call right now and ask for daddy....she's 14. This will at least give me an idea. He offered for me to have my parents come and check, but I think he somehow knows that I won't have them do that.

He is counting on you not calling his bluff. How far away does this sister live?

It was a huge ordeal when we married. Many people were against it because of my age and not having been married before. He had been married twice before...my parents were very leary and my dad first said no way. Even then, I never thought this.

He wanted to talk a lot when he called; I tried to be understanding and listen; it wasn't easy. Even though I feel for his sister, somehow I can't get past my own pain.

3 hours....not easy for me to go check with 4 kiddos. My daughter is still on the phone, not sure yet.

sister couldn't talk because of nurse coming in....so still not sure.

ok, then call back and ask for your husband, higgs. Verify he is there. When he comes to the phone tell him "hello, i was just verifying you are there."

I called back and sister said he left....then sister called me back and said that he went to store to get her things she needed. I then called husband and asked where he was...he said he was heading home because sister blasted him one for no reason. I asked why he didn't call me to tell me ,he was leaving and he said that sister called and apologized for rude behavior and so now my husband is driving back. I told him that no matter when he leaves, I want him to call me.
I realize I can't stop this....I'm so scared and it makes me so sick. I know sister is grief stricken, but I still wonder if she knows what is going on, and trying to protect.
I asked why she told me that you were going to the store and he said that was what he told her as not to hurt her feelings. I just don't know anymore.

He is with the OW and the sister is lying for him.

higgs, I would call the sister and tell her you know he is with OW this weekend and ask her to explain her involvement. Tell her you would rather know the truth. You can deal with the truth, you can't deal with lies.

What can I do?

On 2nd thought, do nothing. When can you hire the PI to start?

I called my friend and asked if they could put the money up and then I would pay $400 now and monthly installments for the remainder until paid. She's talking to husband about it....supposed to call me tomorrow.

Another way to do it would be to put a GPS on his car and see where he is going.

higgs, here is the spying 101 thread, and there are some ideas about how to put a recorder in his car. I will look for some ideas about a GPS. here

Your SIL is an [censored].

Yeah, he just called me back and asked about our daughter.....sister told him that my daughter told sister that her parents were getting a divorce. He was concerned about this. He says that he told his sister what was going on with us....including the OW. I told him that I'm sure she would protect him if necessary. He then started to get loud and talking about how tired he is. I remainded calm and told him that I understood the being tired.

What ?? Who is the OW? Ok, higgs, it is time to talk to him about this. He was with the OW all weekend and you have to discuss it with it. I would call the sister back and tell her you are trying to save your marriage and ask her who your H is having an affair with.

If he is having an affair, you have a right to know WHO she is and you should DEMAND that he end his affair.

Basically he's telling me that he told her what he's told me supposedly. I don't know still who this is; I wish I did know. I feel weird calling the sister since husband is dying any day now. I'm hoping that I can get the gps in there before he has to go back for the funeral.
I was feeling so confident today and now i'm feeling sick again.

When he gets home, tell him you know he spent the weekend with the OW and ask for her name. You have a right to know this.

I thought that I shouldn't bring it up anymore....will it be ok to bring this up?

I just noticed that you are in Texas...I am too.

higgs, when your husband goes off and spends the weekend with his OW, you do bring it up!! HELL YES!

higgs, you ask him who the OW is and DEMAND that he end his affair.

Melody,

Guess what, I decided to take husband up on his offer to have parents come by. He gave directions to me and then asked why I was doing this everyone was in bed. I said, I thought about it and decided to take you up on your offer. They were not going to disturb only to see if truck was there. I explained all this to him. He got mad, and siad, "You know what...forget it...I'm coming home now...I'm sick of this...I'll see you in 3 hours. Funny that he gave me the time since I've driven that way many a years...I already know how long it takes to get here. He continued to explain that he was sick of it and he'd just come home. What cha think? I'm probably going to face a real lashing in the morning.

Why doesn't he just move in with her and get it over with...why all this lying if he doesn't even love me. He's obviously wanting out. I'm so confused.

Ok,now he's called back. He's says he's done...he'll be living at the lake; I can call him there if I need him. I calmly said ok. We hung up. He called back not even 2 minutes later. he said, "did you hear me? Did you hear what I said?" I said yes, I heard you....that was the end of converstation.

I guess I've ruined everything now....I'm trying to stay calm.

It sounds like he wasn't at his sister's. Do his parents know about the A? It might be a good time to expose.

He was expecting you to cry and beg him not to leave. This is a good thing; he's realizing you're not the puppet he thought you were.

I agree with DaS, expose to the parents before he can spin the story to them.

There are no parents for him to expose to. He comes from a very violent childhood. Mother is a schizophrenic...sp? He hasn't spoken to her in 10 years. Dad is deceased. He has two sisters which both live 3-5 hours from here. I still haven't begged or anything....yes he was wanting that....I believe that is why he called back.

The exposure part would have to come from me finding the OW and exposing to her roots...but I may never know that now. Can I still get a detective when he's not living here for me to snoop? What do I do now? What do I tell my children?

I'm lost as to what to do. I'm a teacher and i want to go home to my parents, but I worry if that is the right thing. Please let me know the next step.

I'm bumping in hopes of someone seeing my oontinuing saga...thanks for all the help.

higgs, where do you think he is at? This is the key. You need to find out where he is and who he is with.

How often has he been going off like this overnight? Apparently, his scumbag sister has been covering up for him.

Yes, hire a PI to follow him from work NOW.

Tell your children their dad is having an adulterous affair and is not coming home. Tell them the truth. Tell everyone the truth, higgs.

How is that you didn't know he was with the OW this weekend, higgs? How long has this been going on?

I did tell my children this morning. The leaving and taking off has just happened in the last week and a half. Otherwise, it could have been happening at lake or sometime when I was clueless. He said that he was staying at the lake last night. I have a feeling that he is not there. When he left, it was for about 4 hours or so and then come back. I guess I didn't think he was because of his sister's ordeal.
I felt he would be by her side....don't know why I thought that.

You thought this because you have integrity. He does not. He is shattered. He took advantage of his brother in law illness to get more time to spend with OW. And yes, if he wants out of the M, why just not leave instead of saying he wants out and then have an A on the side just to make himself a little happy (cuz he deserves it).
Be prepared for a roller coaster ride my dear. And ask yourself if you really want this scum bag in your life.
There is nothing wrong with you, your weight included. It is horrible what these WH put you thru...
Blessing

I guess I remember who he was when I first married him and I know how he was; I keep thinking that it;s still there. I just got a credit card from my parents and they are paying to PI...I'm paying them back as I can.
Should I begin exposing even though I don't know woman yet? Should I wait till that is found out? I'm having him followed today.

Since you are hiring a PI, I would wait till I have all my ducks in a row before I expose. You should know who she is. Usually PIs take no time in finding out..
Just wait now and take a deep breath. Make sure you find some quit time for yourself to be still. It is hard, but you must do it.
blessing

Just got everything squared with the PI....He can't start until Wednesday. My question is how should i respond with him while waiting. Should i try to get him to come home? The guy would rather get it in the car instead of on the car.

Don't expose until you know who she is. You want exposure to occur all at once, which includes her side, and you can't do that until she's identified.

Thanks,

I'm hoping to find things out quickly. It's hard to be patient. Should I continue to just be nice and matter of fact? Should I try to get him home? Just not sure...don't want to say something to him that would be wrong.

Higgs,

I don't have any additional advice but just wanted to say welcome and good luck. As you see, you are getting some wonderful help here. Many of the advice you'll be given seems counter intuitive in the beginning but just trust the folks here. After you get all of the info about OW and the A via the PI and other spying techniques, exposure will work wonders. Your WH's reponse may seem scary but I think the exposure will do a world of good. If you work the MB plan, the odds are that your WH will thank you in the long run for exposing. Good luck.

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm sure his response will be horrible when he finds out....I'm a little scared of the reaction.

I would suggest preparring a proper Plan A and try to get him home. It is easier to keep an eye on him and work on your marriage while he is at home. If he is away, he is going to continue the affair, you can't keep an eye on him, and you can't work on the marriage.

Continue reading the MB basics, try to find other ways of snooping, but do not confront him each time you find something. Take care of yourself because thinking of this Affair is consumming. Posting here is very helpful for you to collect yourself, and the vets have great advice.

Higgs, when you say he is at the "lake", do you mean he is in a house that you two own? Or he is in an area near a lake?

Plan A right now. Be at your best, let him know that you love him and your M and you want to keep it intact. It's much easier to Plan A when the WS is at home. Let him know that the door to his home is open and you're waiting there for him.

I'm sorry you are having to wait, that's hard. Can you call another PI and see if one can get started sooner?

Yes, Plan A him the best you can...you can ASK him to come home but do not beg...that will irritate him.

Have you read up on Plan A? Do you know what this is? This is really important right now!

Do not expose anything just yet...not until you find out her name and get proof of the A through the PI.

Expect some SERIOUS ANGER...he is going to be royally pissed. This is NORMAL and EXPECTED.

Remember this: your M can withstand his temporary anger, it cannot withstand an A.

When he gets angry, calmly say "I'm sorry you are upset, I am trying to save our marriage". Do not defend yourself any more than that, don't get hysterical. State it calmly and walk away.

Not sure if anyone posted this for you but here is a link to Plan A

Found out more just now.....went to have son's meds filled and it struck me to ask if any of my husband's meds were available for refill. It's a nail in the coffin for me. ONe med, I expected, it's for the herpes virus. He takes it for the same reasons I do, the other was lavitra....I had to ask what it was...and she said the same as viagra. You should have seen my face.....I bet it looked like a door hit it.

I'm keeping it to myself, but boy it's hard. Everytime i find something out; it's like a knife in the heart....such a deceptive thing.

And he think he is sooooo smart for keeping these things from you. Probably trying to "protect" you from being hurt.

Its tough when you stumble on so many lies, just put the evidence in a safe place, and don't dwell on it so you can Plan A. Be the best spouse ever! Save it for the exposure.

Sent hubby an email saying that I loved him and the door was open for him to come home. PI said he would start tomorrow instead of Wednesday. That made me feel better. It's hard to wait.

You're doing great, higgs. Be his lighthouse. You can do this.

Ok....I found her!!!!! They do work together at his school. I got to thinking about a friend i had follow him and she got the license plate of a woman he helped carry things out for....I looked into her, but nothing came up. Found out her address...near the mcdonalds and called ftd back and guess what??? They confirmed her as the recipeint...now what? I'm just dying...I have the address and everything. I'm thinking I don't need this pi...what cha think?

someone tell me what to do next.

Great job! Keep digging and save the evidence where he can't find it.

Check Facebook and see if she is married and who her friends are. That will help with exposure later.

When you expose, you can also tell the HR department at their school district.

do I want to do that? I work for the same district. How will this effect my job? Should I tell his principal? Who do I contact first? Her? Why should I wait? I want to expose now...what else do I need to know?

She's not married, divored in 2007. I have her address, etc.

Have the PI do it for you - call him with her name, the address, etc. Tell him the information, and the fact is....

They are likely together after school today.


Have the PI go there tonight, and maybe tomorrow during your hubby's LUNCH TIME.

Because your husband is NOT staying at the lake.


No way.
Your husband isn't too smart. He's pretty obvious.

Oh - and be prepared for him to say stupid crap like, "I just started this AFTER I MOVED OUT. We are separated, so it really doesn't count."


SB

wow, that would be as of today. He just officially announced it last night.

Is there an order to exposing. Do you go to the ow first, employee? Does husband just find out as others fine out? If he loses his job, what happens to me? We're both teachers and I'm sure it will end up in firing both of them.

Your WH should not find out until others find out. Be prepared for him to be angry, take it personally, make it all about him and how this impacts him.

My WH lost his job (he had tenure but had violated it by having the A at work during work time, as did OW). OW lost hers. Everyone knows. It's all awful, and it is all a consequence of the A.

It woke him up to consequences. It made him realize what garbage she is. It made him realize what he was doing to his life.

Nothing should happen to you at work. You aren't doing anything wrong. If you save your marriage, the exposure is worth it. Otherwise, you are going to have to live with the consequences of his A anyhow, and so are your children.

Expose to your parents, your children, his sister, and her family, then your friends and husband's friends.

When you expose to HR, you need to do it without ANY EMOTION. Do it in writing, because it is an official document that will go into his personnel record. If the OW is an instructional assistant the district WILL reassign her to another campus or somewhere that they will not have daily contact. He will be written up. Absolutely make sure it is professional. There are some examples here on threads, so look for one. Do NOT name-call, or bash either one of them. Just report the FACTS, and that they are violating personnel rules, if they are.

He won't lose his job, but it will affect his performance review.

DO NOT WARN HIM THAT YOU ARE GOING TO EXPOSE. If you warn him, he will do advance damage-control, and tell everyone that YOU have gone nuts, and "think" he is having an affair.

The truth is that everyone at work probably already suspects or knows anyway. Most things that happen in a school are fairly obvious and teachers don't generally miss much (is this genetic, because I could never get away with anything!).

Be prepared for him to be VERY ANGRY. He will say stuff like:

I will never come home now.
You have ruined me.
I will never trust you again.
You did this out of spite.
My OW would never treat me this way.
I would have come home before, but now that you did this I won't.


Also, when you expose, you need to make SURE that you do not say anything negative about the OW at all. This is NOT about her.

It is about the marriage. You want to say something to your friends and family like:

"I have discovered that my H is having an affair with OW. I want for him to stop his affair because I love him and want our marriage to be restored. Our marriage CAN recover from this affair, and I am prepared to forgive him and work on the problems and issues we have, but we can't until he completely rids our lives of his affair partner. I thought our marriage was a good marriage until the affair began, but I now recognize that we need to do some work on it. Please do what you can to discourage this infidelity - please help me and our children to maintain an intact family. Please don't allow the OW into your home, and please encourage my husband to come home and work on our marriage. We can rebuild our marriage."


Explain at age-appropriate levels to your kids.

Then, wait for your husband to call you and yell.

He will.


OW may also call. CALMLY tell her, "I understand you are upset. This would not have happened if you had made the correct moral choice in your life. Stay away from my husband and family forever and you will have no further issues with me." And HANG UP.


When you speak with your husband, repeat the MB mantras:

-We can save our marriage, leave your affair partner because we cannot rescue our love if another person is involved in our lives.

-Your affair is the cause of the problems in our marriage right now. We can get beyond everything else, once you stop your affair. Come home, and let's get started working on moving forward.

-I understand you are angry. I love you and know we can work together to rebuild our marriage.

-I am willing to forgive your affair, and know that our marriage can get past your anger, but that we cannot get past having a third person in the marriage.

-I love you and am sure that we can get through this together.

-I believe in our marriage, and I believe in you. I want to work on our marriage, please stop your affair and come home.


Stay with the theme of stopping the affair, that you will forgive, that you believe in the marriage. Don't vary from that.

Don't vary off target -NO MATTER WHAT HE SCREAMS.

If he yells about ANYTHING, tell him that you believe in the marriage.

SB

Higgs, since the PI is going to get started tomorrow anyways, I would wait for that...it will give you PROOF for when you expose and no one can deny proof from a P.I. Hopefully he will get pics.

You expose ALL AT ONCE. This is truly crucial, higgs...you want to expose to everyone before your WH and POSOW have a chance to spin it.

OW in my sitch was a teacher as well and I exposed to her entire school. I'll try to find my exposure thread and link it for you so you can see what exposure looks like and how to word it.

My H's A ended the DAY I exposed, BTW.

If he loses his job, how will I support my family? As a teacher, he could lose his credentials and never teach again. Should I tell ow what I know about herpes, etc.

Say nothing about the herpes.

If he loses his job he'll find another one. So he won't teach. He can be a ditch digger, a potato peeler, a...anything.

Don't let fear keep you from acting unless you want to lose your M.

Here ya go...my Exposure Thread.

Yes, you can't worry about his job right now...you need to end this A and give your M a chance to survive. Everything else will work out...don't let the fear stop you, ok?

Exposure is not optional...it's mandatory.

If he loses his job because he violated the rules, he won't lose his credentials. He can get another job where he won't work with her. To save the marriage, he has to stop working with her anyway, forever.

He may only be disciplined, however, he will need to stop working with her because they can never have contact again.

Please don't let this fear stop your exposure. Exposure will work when other, safer strategies don't.

If the OW is divorced and supporting herself, she is going to want to hang onto her job too. Prepare for your WH to be dumped quickly.

Exposure bursts the fantasy bubble. They will have to deal with the consequences of what they are doing, just like you have been dealing with all along.

Most districts are too afraid of unions to fire teachers. Seriously true.

IF this is even against district policy (and it MIGHT NOT BE - seriously, again) he MIGHT get written up. Period.


I hate to say this, but here it is. Districts fear lawsuits. They are afraid of the union and teacher's associations. So, they have these very strict procedures they follow, and they are very wimpy when it comes to "firing" a teacher. I mean this with all the love in my heart.

Having an affair with another employee is rarely a firing offense. Usually it is a "gossip" offense, meaning that it got folks talking and that bugged people. So they quietly reassign people. They make up a reason - and get this, it will be a POSITIVE REASON - to move one of the affairees somewhere else.

"Oh, Mr. Smith has been moved to head up the reading program at Swenson High, he is the ONLY person with the credentials and background and training to do that." And they will PUBLICIZE it as the best thing since sliced bread.

Watch and see if I'm not wrong.

Meanwhile, in the background, they MIGHT get written up. No lie.


They put a happy face on in public, and smack you upside the head in the file if they believe they can. They WILL have a private meeting with someone about the affair, about the letter you sent. That much will happen. Beyond that, IF anything else happens, it would shock me. Unless, of course, the pseudo-promotion. That wouldn't shock me.


Sb

The exception MIGHT be if Mr. Smith managed to get this put in the newspaper........

Then they wouldn't fire him. They would ask him to resign. He would NOT have a mark on his record, and technically WOULD be eligible for rehire, so if the next district called for references, everything is VERY NICE to look at.

He could EASILY get a new job, no sweat.

Happens EVERY DAY.

Higgs,

Several posters have said it to you and I am chiming in about the effectiveness of exposure. It is scary as heck for all parties. But, it is EXTREMELY effective in ending the A. I am a FWW. I had 2 d-day's. For Dday#1, my BH "trusted me to end it myself." As you might imagine, that sounded great at first but failed miserably. For Dday #2, my H exposed to OMW about 5 minutes into our discussion. The A ended immediately. I've never had to deal with contact from OM I would imagine because he is scared to death of my H and his BW after that phone conversation. I wish my H would have made the call on Dday#1. It would have saved us both a lot of heart ache. It sounds crazy coming from a FWW, but I am very very grateful that my H exposed. One day, your WH will be as well.

My FWH has also thanked me for exposing.

Recently I asked him if he was angry about exposure and he paused, looked at me thoughtfully for a few minutes...and said "I can't even remember...it's all a blur."

One of the best things I did was exposing. It went horribly at the time and WH was furious, and I got lots of negative comments, but OW H is a VERY valuable ally and so is my MIL. Expose expose expose!!!

See? It can turn out well!!

SB is correct about the union helping. While my WH was a tenured employee, he and the OW did break the rules and engage in the A on campus during work time. The HR Director and the union agreed that they violated policies that tenure did not protect. They did help negotiate a settlement. He got paid for the rest of the year, nothing in his file, they publicized it as him resigning and they legally cannot give him a bad recommendation. He had to agree never to apply for a job there again, which he won't. There is nothing to stop him from going elsewhere. He was also entitled to unemployment, which is paying for our insurance.

In a way, it was better than if he had just resigned and got nothing, which he would have had to do to save our marriage because I would not have accepted them working together.

Ok, I read the thread....what message board? Are you saying that I should write a statement like that and post it on the bulletin boards around school? Should I send letters to the whole staff? I work at a different middle school and worry what they will do to me for having put this out there.

I posted it on the message board where they met...it was a board for runners, coolrunning.com.

I wasn't necessarily saying you need to expose on a message board but wanted you to see how I worded it.

I would email the principal and the staff at the school where they work, yes, and maybe even the superintendant.

Also start gathering info on the OW...family, parents, friends, etc. and put them on your exposure list as well.

What list do you have going for your family and close friends?

I did check facebook and she has a page there. I can't get into it, but I see her profile pic and a list of all her friends. What can I do with this?

Print off all of her friends. You can use them when you expose.

muahhaahahhaaaa, print off those names and when we are ready we will open up a can of TEXAS WHOOP [censored] on dat skank ho!!

Do you have a facebook account of your own? If not, create one, add her as a friend, and then you will have access to messaging all her friends as well.

DO NOT PUT IT ON ANY OFFICIAL SCHOOL WEBSITE OR BOARDS, PERIOD.

That will put you into big huge trouble.

Do not use the school computers to do anything with regard to this affair, because they WILL track you for this behavior, and come after you. Trust me on this. One of your H's friends in the computer tech dept will be licking his chops WAITING for the chance.


Do everything from HOME. This is not school business, so don't do it from school.

Print your letter from home, and deliver it to HR on your lunch hour.

No school emails to anyone. This is NOT public information - don't cross the line. Keep very quiet about it at school, and if anyone asks about any HR action, YOU DO NOT KNOW.

You don't know anything while you are at work. YOU are STUPID about your marriage and HR while you are at work...do you understand?

They will nail you if you do anything like that at school!!

If any of your teacher friends sends you any emails while at work on the school email system regarding your marriage, your response MUST be this:


"This is a private matter. This is the school email system, and should only be used for school business. Thanks for understanding."


Tell them in person - not in writing - why you sent it that way.

If you are creating a FB account, use a made up name and photo so she will accept your friend request. She is not going to accept the request from your WH's BS. She has probably heard lies about you - that you are crazy, mean, divorcing him, who knows.

D&S, that would not work because the OW is not going to accept someone she doesnt know as a friend. And when she does send out emails to the OW's friends, for the sake of credibility she will need to use her full name. Otherwise she just be dismissed as an anonymous crank.

She doesn't need to be the OW's friend to send all of her contacts a private email about the affair.

Don't expose to the OW.


She already knows she is having an affair.

So I should only expose to human resources? What about a personal letter to principal or other friends he has there?

higgs, we have a template letter that should go to Human Resources along with a cc to the principal and any other key supervisors at his school. I will post it when I get home. I also have a letter for you to use in exposing to the OW's facebook friends.

Who is this OW? How old is she? Where are her folks? What all do oyu know about her?

It depends on the staff handbook on who to report to.

Since this is a sensitive matter, the issue would be considered private and HR would handle it with kid gloves. You might want to look in the staff handbook for guidance on how to report. Follow that guidance, as it is important to follow the rules on this. They are nitpicky and can be stinky if you report to the wrong person. Look at that book!

My letter in your sitch my be fairly simple, because schools are so stinky:


To Human Resources:

I am writing to bring to your attention a personal and intimate relationship between Mr. Smelly Affairman and Ms. Stinky Otherwoman which may violate the Staff Code of Conduct (cite the number or page here). The conduct has been witnessed by Private Investigator Mr. Great Detective, who can supply photographs if necessary (or whatever proof you have).

I am the wife of Mr. Smelly Affairman. It is with great difficulty that I feel I must report this activity; I hope that by revealing this information the affair behavior can be stopped during work hours.

Thank you for your attention to this matter. If I can be of any service or provide further information, please do not hesitate to contact me at ###-####.

Respectfully,

Ms. Betrayed Wife

She is approximately 44 years old and a Math teacher at his school..he is Math also. She was married to the owner of a very upscale jewelry store and her parents were wealthy as well. i knew that had to be the case if he got involved. He has to be able to leave without feeling a crunch financially. He claims that's the only reason he stayed. The woman was married back in 98 and divorced in 2007. I don't know much more. PI is going over there tonight, but I'm wondering what he is plotting right now.

He has still not responded to my text about coming home, he won't contact me or the children. My son keeps texting him and he won't reply. I don't know what to tell them right now. He has been pullin himself away from them over the last couple weeks, other than not being here, he has ignored them when he is here...and now no contact for 4 days.

YOU TELL YOUR KIDS THE TRUTH. Sit them down and lay it all out there.

He never responded to text, but came home, ignored kids, grabbed clothes and off he went. I texted him and he claims he's going to a friend's house for a couple of days...he needs sleep and he can't deal with this right now. He says he's not telling me where because he doesn't want me making these people "bad".

Will this pain ever stop? is it worth all this? I want to show up on the door step and tell her all the crap he has put me through. He's not going to come home because he doesn't want to.

higgs, do you know where she lives? Can you get someone to drive over there and take a picture of your H's car in her driveway?

Can someone go check her house to see if he is there? Take a photo of his car if he is?

Oh, gosh! of course Melody is one step ahead of me!! Must be a slow day; she is usually many steps ahead!!

Anyway, go get a photo!

Perfect!!

Ok, lets start getting your exposure letters and calls ready. How many friends does she have on facebook? Do you have the contact information for her parents?

she is 10 steps ahead of us! The PI is going over there tonight! That is even better!

Good job higgs! Are you ready to expose?

higgs, lets put together your exposure list and get all your ducks in row. Would it be possible to take a day off this week for exposure? It needs to be done in one day to get the maximum effect.

Here is a good letter for you to use [modify as you see fit] to send out to OW's facebook friends:

Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence. We have been married for XX years and have 3 children, aged 5,7, and 12. They are heartbroken about their fathers affair.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I am asking that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
Thank you, BW

She has about 230 friends on facebook...where's the letter for that? How do I go about doing that? He says he needs rest for all the stress he has endured...please.

higgs, did you tell me his parents had passed? Here is a good list of exposure targets:

1. employer
2. OW's facebook friends
3. the OW's parents
4. your H's sisters
5. any other close family and friends
6. your PASTOR
7. YOUR CHILDREN <----VERY IMPORTANT
8. your parents

Employer should be exposed to via LETTER with a cc on it. The cc is important because no one is tempted to deep six the letter. SEnd the letter certified to Human Resources and cc the Principal.

CALL the OW's parents, give them the facts and ask them to use their influence to persuade their daughter to leave your H alone. Let them know if this comes to divorce that you will be suing on grounds of adultery and will have the OW called into court to give testimony under oath.

One by one, call the other family members and friends and pastor. Tell them about the affair and ask for their advice.

WATCH OUT: If someone says "ok, I will keep this a secret!!" Tell them nonono!!! Affairs thrive on secrecy so that is the worst thing they can do!

Email the OW's facebook friends using the template letter I gave you.

Then sit down your children and tell them about their fathers adultery and with whom. give them the OW's FULL NAME so they will know who the enemy is.

higgs, I posted the letter just a few posts back. Have you copied her facebook friends?

I've already taken a day off today for research and contacting PI. We hav TAKS this week, so very difficult to get away. Do I email each and everyone with this letter. Is there a way to mass email? What if some of her friends call me and threaten me or something?

Ok, I'm going to try and focus my attention on these letters. Will I need to send message to all 286 friends? Then walk the letter to human resources and how should I deliver the one to principal? Take it to the school?

Don't worry about what her friends do or say. What you want to do is expose this nasty adulterous affair to the light of day.

There is no way to mass email all her friends. You will have to go to each one's profile page, and click under their picture on the left to "Send XXX a message". Write the exposure letter in a text document first, highlight it, and copy it. Then, as you pull up each message box on Facebook, paste it, and send. That'll save you a lot of time.

I would send it to anyone who looks as if they might be a relative of hers...same last name, etc. Then, send it to as many others as you can. You may only be able to send a few at a time, because of Facebook's spam controls. In that case, wait a few minutes, and start sending them again.

In addition, if you have a Facebook page, you could post the same message as your status, which will take care of exposure to your friends on Facebook.

Tell them to have a nice day. You will get some nasty emails from her friends, but that is an EXPECTATION. You will also get some nice, supportive letters.

There is no way to mass email the letters, so I would pick out some that look important and get those done first and then work back wards from there.

You should get your phone calls done first and do the exposure at work first. For example, deliver the letters at school late in the day, come home and make your phone calls and then spend the evening sending facebook exposures. Do you have a close friend who can help you with facebook exposures?

higgs, lets work on your letters and your exposure list, ok? Can you put together an exposure list?

p.s. I would plan to do this the day AFTER you have some pictures from the PI. Get everything ready for that day.

higgs, being that you are a nice, upstanding Texas gal, here is the message that should go to the OW and your H. Remember to be a lady!



buh-bye MrAffair!!

And if anyone actually threatens you from Facebook, you can forward the message to the administrators.

If anyone locally threatens you - such as phone calls - you can report it to law enforcement.

If the OW threatens you, you can file a Restraining Order or Protection Order (they are called differently in different areas). The forms are usually online.

Oh, and one more thing - print her photo off of Facebook to show your kids who she is when you tell them.

GOOD IDEA!

Ok, got it...I'm getting those letters together. PI just called and said that he is there, but his truck was parked in the back yard. He said he was snooping around in the backyard and was going to look in the truck when he saw the bed down and my husband laying there on his back in the bed of the truck....weird. He said it looked as if she was having a party at her house. He said it scared the *&^% out of him, but he didn't see him.

He's going to go to the school tomorrow and she how he can do there, but then go wait at the house again in the afternoon.

I'm getting very anxious about everything and wondering how he will respond with the notifications. I worry about him trying to be vengeful.

Don't worry about his being vengeful. He will be mad as all get-out, but he'll get over it. Your marriage can survive his anger, but it can't survive a continuing affair.

Your husband will tell you stuff like: "I was going to work on the marriage, but you ruined everything!" "I can't believe you would embarrass me like that!" blah, blah, blah...

Just smile and say, "I am doing what is best for our marriage. Do you want a cookie?"

That PI is awesome! The OW must be hiding the relationship for now, or he would be at the party. This is good - she probably doesn't want anyone to know she is seeing a married man. Planned to bring him around later as a divorced or divorcing man.

Unfortunately, that's not going to happen! Exposure is going to kill this relationship - if she isn't willing to risk it now, she sure won't stand beside him once it's all exposed at school.

He will tell you that garbage - or try to get you to agree that you won't snoop, or contact anyone. Better stock up on cookies!

t/j you know, I have been around for a few months and I have never heard a WS actually take the BS up on the cookie, chip or tea.....t/j over

I am glad that the PI is getting some stuff already. You will get your money's worth for sure. Listen to this GREAT advice and keep doing what you are doing.

I wonder if the OW's party guests didn't look out the window and wonder why she had a truck parked in the back yard and why some guy was lying down in the back of it.

Oh, well...your exposure should put an end to any curiosity that arose!

I'm scared....really. I worry about the exposure to a degree...him losing it and killing us all. I'm just so anxious for him to get pics and whatever else he can.

He texted me last night and told me, "If you want me to leave, then just tell me to leave". It's like he wants me to say "it's over".

That may be what he wants so that he can absolve himself of the guilt. If you say 'it's over', then he can feel better about it because it was a mutual decision.

Stick to your guns. Are you really fearful of his reactions? Has he ever been violent in the past?

It's okay to be scared about doing exposure. Many, okay pretty much ALL of the new BSs here have to be nudged into doing it. I have NEVER seen ONE that regretted it after wards. I exposed. It wasn't even nuclear and neither one of them lost their jobs. My WH acted like nothing even happened with exception to one phone call. POSOW had privacy settings on her FB so I couldn't find her. FB changed their privacy settings(I was trying to find her mother and brother) and I took the opportunity to get to her family but I didn't have a chance to get to her friends(oh I wish I had). All that I noticed about POSOWs exposure was one response back saying, "I know OW, but I do not know you." She changed her privacy settings so I couldn't get to the rest.

Your WH will be ANGRY. We aren't trying to scare you, we are warning you. We are warning you so you will have some pocket responses ready so you don't act off of emotions alone. Many times when BSs are dealing with this, their TAKER comes out and they say and do things that they regret later. We don't want you to fall into that trap. Just get ready for anger.

As far as wanting you to tell him to leave, they all do that. They feel guilty enough already about what they are doing but they don't want to stop doing it. Your WH needs BOTH of you not just OW. He is cake eating and he doesn't want to stop. He is also confused as to why you haven't reacted in that way. It is confusing him. Now ramp up that Plan A and get ready to expose. Then get yourself ready to watch the fireworks fly.

When you are watching and listening to him spew his fog babble, laugh in your head at how RIGHT all of the MBers were. Believe me, even I was shocked whenever they were right, which BTW was EVERY single time.

Everyone has been right....he's a textbook case no doubt. Do you think she will change her settings while I'm sending out the facebook notifications. I worry about getting to them all.

Don't worry about that. Forge ahead.

If you print out the list of her contacts, you will have them and it won't matter if she changes her privacy settings. You can then search her friends' names and send them the message.

higgs, yes, she will change her settings, so this is why it is important for you to copy the names into a WORD document. Is there anyone you can enlist to help you?

How far away from you does she live? Do you know who her parents are?

You may be able to get several photos off of her facebook page. Save them to your hard drive so they can look through them all. I know I always have a hard time recognizing someone from just one online photo.

Hi, she lives about 15 minutes from here. PI is over there now seeing if he can get some pics. What if he doesn't get any...can I still expose w/out those? I'm so nervous...I can't stand the waiting.

I have my letters ready and I'm prepared to do it all tomorrow if PI calls with evidence. Her parents are both on facebook, so they will get the letter.

YEs, you can do it without pics but those are BEST.

What concrete evidence do you already have?

Mainly the confirmation of flowers being sent to her, his prescription for viagra, PI eyewitness account of them being together at house and that's it really.

New news....a friend that I work with ran into a friend of the OW and asked her if she was seeing anyone. The OW said yes, but it was a nightmare because he was going through a divorce and had 4 kids. Really a divorce? He hasn't mentioned that yet. So what do you make of that?

I make of it that he's a typical lying wayward...they all say this.

We really need a picture of him over there. That should do it.

Your H is likely lying to her about his situation at home.

higgs, do you know their phone #? Can you get it? It would be even more effective if you or your mother or his mother could call the OW's parents. Do they live close by?

I don't know parent's address or number. PI just called me and got the pics. He got one of both cars, license plates and him going in the house....he says he's staying the night. I just texted him and asked when he was coming home and he said, I don't know, I'm trying to plan for a funeral and viewing...so I guess sister's husband died....it will be another excuse to stay away.

PI wants me to go over there now and confront at house. Do I need to do this; I definitely want to. Can I do the facebook tonight and then take letters in the morning. I have everything ready.

That would be a good idea if you can control yourself. Can you? Be polite and keep yourself under control. Go over there and ask her what her intentions are. DON'T TELL THEM ANYTHING ABOUT EXPOSURE WHATEVER YOU DO.

Ask them to end the affair, tell the OW you will be fighting for your marriage and that your H has never mentioned divorce. That will upset her, I bet.

This would be perfect.

higgs, i am going to pray for you. Please pray for a strong, calm heart and mind before you go. The Lord will give you strength. He is on your side!

Philippians 4:13 (King James Version)

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

You can do this higgs. We will all be praying for you.

I saw a saying on a church sign yesterday, it said, "One on the side of GOD is a MAJORITY."

I will pray as well!!!

Me, too. I know it is awful. Try to be CALM.

Hi, I'm back. PI went with me but hung out on the street. He was in his truck laying down again. I started knocking on the door several times, but she never came out...husband then came over and wouldn't let me talk to her. Still holding to the fact that he wasn't having an affair with her. I told him that I knew he was staying overnight...he said he wasn't. denied everything.
I told him I wanted to ask what her intentions were because I am going to fight for this marriage. He said, "and if you do this, then I will want to make it work?" He said he was following me home, but he's not here. I'm getting ready to send the emails on facebook.

((((HIGGS))))

You are so strong. You will be fine.

We are here for you.

higgs, I am confused about why he was in his truck. That does not seem right. Is this the woman the flowers were sent to?

Yes, same woman...he still admits that. I think it's because her daughter is at home...not sure. I sent out about 7 emails, but they told me I was behaving badly and blocked me. Will i get my account suspended with them?

ahhh, that makes sense. Who told you that you were behaving badly?

facebook

higgs, do you need some help with this? email me at ohmelodylane@aol.com

yeah, I've been blocked for a few hours to a few days. I guess I'll have to go in through everyone's own page....I probably should have stopped at first warning.

Ok, I'm stopping the exposure for now. This really worked. Husband is home...madder than a wet hen, but home. I only sent out about 10 facebook messages as ow texted me to tell me that she just learned alot from my visit....she said apparently he has been lying to us both. I'll get back with ya'll later, but for now he's here and i don't want him to see me on internet.

He's mad at me for embarrassing him at this woman's house...still maintains that she refused to be with a married man...that's why he was in truck bed both times. She told him that she would offer him her couch while we worked things out...but he couldn't

Okay Higgs, what is your plan for recovery? How are you going to move forward with this?

If your WH has come home to work on things, then a NC letter is A MUST. Your WH has to NEVER see this woman AGAIN. There is much more that needs to be figured out

Just a note to say YA DID GREAT!! You are an example for all BS's who are afraid to expose. you were afraid yesterday, but look at your result. And WH lied to OW about his sitch....imagine that. Now on to the hard work of recovery! GF

higgs, he is trying to cover for her still. I would schedule a polygraph and insist he take it. Seriously.

ITA. You also need to start working on snooping to make sure C doesn't continue (they will try desperately to take it further underground...trust me here).

Wow, Higgs, you are doing wonderfully, I am very impressed. Keep up the good work and keep on snooping.

(((HUGS)))

Remember, your marriage can withstand your husband's anger. It cannot stand your husband's adultery. Whatever you do now, do not let him sweet talk you into anything. You're holding all the cards now.

I'm with the others, proud of you for doing something that took a lot of courage!

I'm super scared......so anxious today......ow texting and calling me to explain that she will not contact him. Texted me at 1:30 concerned about the messages on facebook.....wanting to know who I message. H is so mad and now I'm worried if he finds out about facebook.

Got my first fb hate mail.....I guess it could have been worse. This was from a relative.....maybe mom. " I don't condone ow, but I pity you for acting like an 8th grader.....next time take the high road"

what's next for me? He's so angry and hurling insults.

We're here to support you. This is your decision to save your marriage and in time your WH may actually thank you. Make sure that the exposure is complete with everyone on your list. Including his family, and anyone else with influence.

Your doing good.

Yeah, you'll get a few ignorant comments from people who don't 'get it'. Take the high road, my [censored]. What does that mean? "Oh, I think I'll take the high road and let my M go in the tank." ???

Of course he's ticked - we told you that would happen. And OW is worried, which means the exposure is doing what is intended. It is causing stress and disruption.

You be the sweet wife he married and let him know that you love him and you love your marriage, and you intend to keep both.

How do I respond to him.....should I continue to address the affair?

Check notable posts - I think it's called 'Be the Lighthouse'. I'll see if I can find it.

Oh brother...YOU are acting like an 8th grader? PUH-LEASE. What about the OW who is trying to STEAL another woman's husband and ruin 4 children's lives and your lowdown-dirty WH who just wants to get in her pants? THEY aren't acting like incosiderate, hormonal, selfish 13 year olds? What a joke.

It would make sense if that was from a relative...you know, birds of a feather and all that.

When he hurls... you say "I understand. Do you want a cookie?" In other words, in one ear and out the other. He's a 2 yr. old throwing a huge tantrum.

Don't worry about FB hate mail, you don't care. You've made your point and that was to expose. It worked. You've turned on the lights. You're doing this for your family and what anyone else thinks won't mean a hill of beans in the long run.

As for the OW-- don't EVEN respond to her garbage.

((Higgs4)))

Plan A him BIG TIME when he comes home tonight. Get to work NOW to make the house look great, you look great, get dinner on. DO NOT SHOW A HINT of regretting what you've done. YOU did the right thing, higgs.

Just smile, look pretty, give him a kiss and tell him you're so happy he's home. Don't bring anything up, let him do it.

And when he does, do not apologize for what you've done. Do you understand that,higgs? If you do he will use your apology to continue to beat you down into submission and your recovery will be off on the absolute wrong foot.

When he says he is upset just smile and say "I love you and want to save our M. M is for 2 people and not three; I did what I needed to do to protect our M from an intruder. Would you like a beer?".

BE STRONG, higgs...he needs to see your STRENGTH right now and know that you want to fight for him and your M.

Beer, cookie... whatever. LOL - You won't be moved - get it?

Why don't you delete your FB account so they can't even get ahold of you?

You might respond ONCE to the OW to simply tell her you are going to fight for your H and M with everything you have and that she needs to leave you both alone. Then ignore her after that.

ok, higgs, just stay completely focused and DO NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE DIVERTED BY THEIR ANGER. You have wounded the target and you cannot afford to let up now until the affair is dead, do you understand??

I would bluff the OW and your H and let them know you have had them followed by a PI and know all about the affair. [and you do know they are having an affair, that is where he spent the weekend]

Ask your husband to agree to never see the OW again and ask him to send her a no contact letter. Tell him you are willing to forgive him for his affair if he commits to recovering your marriage nad NEVER SEEING the OW again. NEVER.

And don't worry about some backlash from facebook exposures!! You will always get some crapwit who will object. I did about 3 of them for you last night and got a very sympathetic response from one. If you call or email me I will tell you. Did you get my emails??

As far as the OW, I would text her back and say something like:

"my Private Investigator has pictures that will be sent to everyone if you come near my husband again. He will be watching. Don't you come near my husband again."

higgs, please read my emails!!

higgs,

You are terrific.


Your exposure sent OW running for the bushes!

Why? Because her mom and dad saw that message, and they called her on her behavior. Her friends called her and

despite their messages to you

they questioned her on what she was thinking!!!!

Can you hear them????

"OW, what on earth are you thinking? This guy is married! He has 4 kids! He is lying to you, telling you he is getting divorced, and you BUY THAT LINE? You can't be that stupid!"

Meanwhile, they sent you messages that appear to stand up for her. Ignore those messages, because they are trying to put up a front for OW - trust me - they are on her like white on rice in the background. Your WH will be getting an earful at work - because this gossip is hitting the rounds like wildfire.

The OW will cut him a wide berth - because he lied to her, and she now risks losing face at work, and has ALREADY lost it with her family and friends. Those messages have done their work.


Your job is to make sure that you do not stop what you have already done. Expose to the rest of your family, because your kids do need to know the real story. Your parents, or other relatives need to know. There has already been some exposure there, and with the death in the family it will be harder, but do not allow him to use this event to cover him on the affair. There may need to be some time allowed, but you will still need for that exposure to happen, and the same letter to go out to the family who is affected by the recent death. You will need their support in the marriage, because his sis did help cover him in the affair.


And the advice for NO APOLOGIZING for exposure is spot-on.

Your response should be "I am doing what I know is right to save my marriage". He will stop the anger after he realizes he can't get you to fight with him about exposure, and at some point your exposure will begin to make sense.

Do not reduce your vigilance, either. They may go further underground, once OW gets her feet under her, or if your WH figures out a new lie to convince her that

YOU are crazy.


SB

Ok, the crap has really hit the fan...my husband is screaming at me on the phone telling me that I've defaced him and an innocent woman who had nothing to do with any of this.

Also, he is demanding that I retract all my emails to facebook. He was called into the office today with principal and it was revealed there to even though I was not the teller...don't know what happend, but it's a real snake pit now. He hates me and won't even talk to me.

You will be ok!! He is furious because you have interfered with his affair. Don't allow him to bait you into a fight. It is normal for affairees to DENY their affair and become furious when you expose it to the light of day. This trouble is because of his affair, not because of your exposure. He would not be called into the office if he wasn't having an affair.

What has happened here is that you have brought in a crowd of onlookers into the crack house to watch the crack heads get high. THEY ARE FURIOUS!! But the fury will wear off once the fog wears off and that is waht exposure does.

Remain CALM, higgs. If he screams at you, just tell him you are sure sorry he is upset. And be sure and let him that you know all about his affair. Don't you DARE ask him if it is an affair, because he will deny it. Just tell him you KNOW.

Like I said, the gossip has begun.


This is because once YOU knew about it, it was open season for everyone else who knew about it to talk openly about it.

That's kind of the unspoken rule on affairs.

Sort of like how the cockroach rule works. Nobody "notices" the cockroaches unless someone notices when the lights are turned on and one of them doesn't quite make it into the crack fast enough. Then all of a sudden, everyone seems to notice cockroaches EVERYWHERE.

What's that about?


SB

for exposing.

and like every one here is said they ALL get angry, it doesn't last. Ignore any responses, or get someone else to deal with FB generated mail for a few days.

and remember "I am fighting for my family"

He came home just now to pack fo rthe funeral...the viewing is tomorrow and the funeral is Friday. I asked him if I could help him pack...and he said, "Don't do anything for me; I don't want you to touch anything." I told him that I had to expose the affair so that we could get our marriage back. He then said there is no affair!!!! I said yes there is an affair and I have the proof. He said, what, my truck at her house? That's not proof of anything. THis is just like you to do something like this...I'll be lucky if she doesn't sue me for this fb thing.

He then said, "Well, you're back in the driver's seat again Kim, that's what you wanted right?" "I tried to get you to read that book (I bought his needs her needs today) 18 years ago and you didn't do it."

It's funny, while I was purchasing this book, a marriage counselor was there and told me it was a good book....I then started to pour out my story. He said, " You have to remember he is like a madd dog right now and you've got him cornered, so of course he is going to bite"

Higgs, I know it doesn't feel like it right now but you did GOOD. I only WISH my exposure was as nuclear as yours. Mine was a pop compared to yours.

You will be okay. You are doing very well. Just keep listening to the advice on here and you will do MARVELOUSLY.

higgs, why aren't you going to this funeral? It's for your BIL, right?

I think you should go.

I have new neighbors (NN)and a new puppy who lacks a a schedule and he goes outside with me on a leash. NNH (husband) works shift work. I have seen a young man scoot down the hill on the backside of their house about twice a week. He leaves just before NNH comes home from work. When NNH works
days, the curtains are closed till just before 3:00 PM.

All because the puppy doesn't have it together like Mutley did.
Point is..
get the PI to talk to the neighbors.....betcha someone has some observations. I'm writing notes for NNH. NNWW is doing her hard working BS wrong GF

Higgs,

You did amazing! Don't get baited into a discussion and like Mel says- Do not appologize for exposure. You are a hero for your marriage. Some people won't understand. We do. Weather the storm and stay calm. It will get better.

I already know it's an affair...they may not have slept together, but he pursued, she announced their togetherness to her friends, and he's stayed at her house multiple times.

I get a lot of bad looks about the fb thing...I guess I'm such a people pleaser that it just killed me to do this. He definitely hates me.. ..says he'll be moving soon and a bunch of other things.

Don't pay any attention to what he says. He's just trying to scare you into backing off so he can continue his affair.

You did very well with your exposure! His anger and the OW's panic are signs that your exposure did exactly what it was intended to do!

Here's a thread that may help you get the strength you need. It helped me. I had to read it a couple of times to get it to sink in.

Art of war thread.

Pepperband also quoted this for me and I wanted to pass it along.
Sorry if this came from someone else, Pep didn't quote WHO so I am just passing it on as she quoted it

Have you read my thread? It is LONG but there is a lot of useful stuff in there.

Hang in there, you are doing GREAT.

Thanks for that. He is saying things like how can you walk around here so calm....I know this phsycology. and...why would you doing something like this make me want to come back to you?

What did that mean above about getting myself ready financially, spiritually, etc.?

The thing here Higgs is that he is a WS, he will do and say things that will drive you nuts. Not only he is at fault for having an A. He is blaming you for being calm and wanting to save the M. You see what kind of logic he has?

It takes guts to go thru plan A because you have to play nice with someone who should be really begging you to take him back ....but he is actually blaming you. The trick is to keep telling yourself: what am I feeling now? and feel it all the way and then ask yourself. Can I let it go? and answer yes or no, but no matter what the answer will be you will feel relief. And the relief still does not come ask yourself: am I trying to change the situation? if yes (and most likely it is yes) then ask: could I allow myself to let go of wanting to change it? and again, no matter what the answer will be you will feel some relief.
Keep doing this as much as it is necessary.

From what I recall plan A only works 15% of the time. That means that either you H will not give up the A and will leave or that he will stay and put you thru a series of false R where he will pretend to give up OW but will not.
They advice you do plan A for 6 weeks or up to 3 months at the max. Then for your own sanity you need to move to plan B. Thus it would be a good idea for you now to get your ducks in a row in terms of financial arrangements, support (spiritual or counseling or both) in case you need to go to plan B.
blessing

That's no reason to have an affair. I bought HNHN before we were even married and have been trying to involve Prisca in following the program with me ever since; many times she has straightforwardly turned me down. I still didn't think that gave me license to go commit adultery!

ETA: higgs, I suggest you remove your firstname from your post, if that's your real name, to protect yourself.

So I should only do this for awhile? How will I know when to go to plan b? It's depressing to think all of this may not work. How will I continue my snooping? He's so aware right now?

It means to take care of yourself. Hope(and plan and work!) for the best, but prepare for the worst.

Do things to make yourself feel better...bubble bath, pedicure, new clothes..whatever. At the same time, protect your finances so that he doesn't wipe out your accounts and leave you broke, if worst comes to worst.

In Plan B, you will no longer be snooping. You will live as if he does not exist, other than to make necessary arrangements for finances or child visitation through an intermediary. Your intermediary should only convey necessary information and NO PERSONAL information between you.

This is so that he no longer gets any needs met by you and to force the OW to meet ALL his needs, which she can't possibly do.

You go to plan B when continuing plan A hurts you so much that you will lose your love for your spouse. Dr. Harley says if he doesn't know someone well, he doesn't advise Plan A for longer than 3-4 weeks for a woman, 6 months for a man. He says some people can go longer with adequate support.

Plan B is to protect your health, your sanity, and your love for your husband or wife.

I think you should start preparing for Plan B immediately; so many people wait until they need to enter Plan B to even start planning it.

Keep doing what you are doing, higgs, you are doing amazingly well. Sure, it probably doesn't "feel" like it right now but, truth is, you really are!

Don't worry about any criticism you get from those silly folks on Facebook; heck, they're not even (truly) mad at you (although they may not realize this) they're just p.o'd because someone (you) blew someone else's "cover" (the OW's) which is, in turn, embarrassing for them all (most especially if that one particular message you got was from someone like the OW's mother). Of course some of them are going to be mad, this kind of exposure exposes "them" (the silly folks) in a round-about way, too. They're mad, alright, but who they are really mad at is the person(s) who created this mess, not you, they just don't have the balls to admit to it just yet. Hah, and they say "you" are the one acting like a child??? Give me a break, you are more grown-up then the rest of them put together (geez, you'd make a great role-model for them, "you're" the one who is trying hard to save your marriage).

Keep your chin up, stay calm and, as many others said, let those insults your H keeps hurling at you "go in one ear and out the other." Remember, he is not actually angry with you, he is angry with HIMSELF and the fact that his little secret is no longer "intact." Yep, he'll blame you right now (that's a given) but DON'T let that faze you; it's to be expected. Whatever you do, don't apologize for exposing; that would be just the same as saying "I did something wrong" when you most cerainly did not. You have nothing to apologize for.

You're a fabulous person and you are doing a fabulous job, your H should be "thanking" you for caring so much. Hopefully, in time, he will!

All the best to you, higgs.
xox

Excellent insight - that makes perfect sense as to why so many people are horrified when the cheating is exposed and insist that you *must* shut up about it immediately. Of course, they are always the friends/family/coworkers who knew in the first place and did nothing!

Thank you. I'll remember this one. It should be obvious, but it was quite good to see it put into words.

Hi higgs,

Just wanted to let you know you're doing amazingly well!

I did facebook exposure too. One friend had a very strong response, and I told her off (tactfully) and defriended her. However, a few months later, we happened to meet by chance, and we hugged and she asked me how we were doing.

I like TanC's post. I also think that when they're faced with the truth (exposure), it's like a slap in the face to them, and they're not going to react well.

I exposed to my H's family too, and his grandmother told me she was sorry but that we should keep it between the two of us, she felt she could not say anything to him even though I explained to her why she should.

So there will always be people who don't agree with what you're doing, doesn't mean you should be deterred from your plan. STICK to the plan. Keep plan A'ing him, be a broken record whenever he says he doesn't want to be married or tries to tell you why it won't work out - "I have hope" - and all along make preparations for Plan B. Keep on snooping quietly, so that way you will know if he's still in contact with her or not, so you can go to Plan B when it's time.

My H unleashed hell for days after exposure. Now? He has told me several times that he's grateful that I did what I did. So don't let your WH faze you - be strong. But be sure to set up/maintain your boundaries. If he swears at you or calls you names, that kind of thing (which H did to me), simply let him know you will not accept that. All he's doing is trying to sway you from your path because he doesn't want to go where you're going.

Well, stomach in knots again..... My principal wants me to get quiet; it's all the way to 2nd in command in my district; she has a meeting right now. I'm scared of the outcome.....she claims this teacher could sue me forharrassment or slander. This nightmare may never end for me.

Higgs, your principal is just worried about the school's reputation and trying to cover his/her/the school's [censored]. This is your marriage that you're fighting for. Did you use the school email or computer system to do the exposing? As for her suing you for slander or harassment, ain't gonna happen. For one thing, it's not slander if it's true and harassment would be hard to prove. She really doesn't want to get this in front of a Judge and give you the opportunity to state that you were asking people for help to save your marriage. Calm down sweetie. It will be okay.

BTW, I've been in the legal field for many years and I kinda know what I'm talking about.

Exactly! Not Slander if it's true and you've got evidence. And if she finds out you've got evidence, she'll be too embarrassed to go any further.

In my situation OW threatened to sue my sisters and me for harassment. Never happened.

Be calm and strong in this storm. You'll be the one that wins in the end.

Well, the meeting was actually about something the principal was in trouble for...LOL She just knew it was about this because her direct boss had brought it up to her....anyway, I'm still not sure what they will do with them.

Husband is at sister's again...viewing tonight from 6-8 and funeral tomorrow. I confirmed that he was there. I offered to send flowers and he accepted that. I'm going to continue to snoop and I'm getting a digital recorder to put in his truck. I will need to know if he is continuing to talk with her....or planning anything.

Okay, you are doing GREAT with the stick part of Plan A. How are you doing with the carrot part? You see most BSs can get one side of it done with little effort.

I am sorry if missed it. What are your WHs top 3 ENs? What Love busters have you been guilty of committing in the past and how effective have you been at correcting them?

I need to figure it all out. I know the first EN for h is physical attraction. I'm trying my hardest with this....lost 60lbs total, but it's taking time. I'm not sure of the others. I'm getting the books and reading this weekend.

PA isn't necessarily only weight. It can be about the way your hair is and what style of clothes you wear. Your perfume and the way your hair smells is also part of it. I have gained weight throughout my marriage and WH still found me PA. POSOW is even overweight as well.

Many men have these 5 ENs in their TOP. It may help a little. Sexual fulfillment, Admiration, Domestic support, Physical attractiveness and recreational companionship are the top 5 of a lot of men. The other 5 are family commitment, conversation, affection, financial support and Honesty and openess. You should read up on the basic concepts, emotional needs and the love bank if you haven't already done so, as this is going to be essential in pulling off a superb Plan A.

Don't get discouraged. You are doing excellent so far. There is work to do. Can you do this? Are you ready?

Good job! Keep up the good work. Stay strong and don't let them get you down.

Also, princessMeggy is a legal aide up around Dallas so she knows Texas law. Don't let them scare you into silence.

Yes, I just got all 3 books and I'm reading through surviving an affair. I'm hoping to get all three books read before husband returns home.
He's told me multiple time that my weight bothers him in the extreme. For the most part, my hair is much like when we met and I feel confident that he likes it. I'm not sure about the perfume...how would I know that? I'm not sure of his other needs...I think admiration is very important for him too. I'm sure he won't do the questionaire right now, so How can I determine his needs completely? What is POSOW?

You can think back to things he complained about Pre-A. Those were legit complaints, the ones now are his justifications to have an A. Also, I noticed that the things that WH used to do for me were his ENs. You see people tend to do the things for others that would make them happy.

POSOW stands for Piece of Sh*& other woman.

I read alot of "Surviving an Affair" last night. I'm concerned because he won't be able to have complete seperation from her at work. They are both math teachers, so they have to see each other at department meetings and anywhere else in the hall. Trust me, they won't seperate them this year with only 5 weeks of school left.

What can I do....I can't insist he quit right now because he'll lose his certificate.

The affair will continue if you don't insist on NC. He needs to be NO WHERE near her. The A will just go deeper underground and they will become more entrenched. You KNOW that this is right. You KNOW that they must NEVER see eachother again. That is the instincts of every BS. We KNOW that the APs can not be around eachother.

There is only one route to go and that is Plan A until it is time for Plan B. If your WH can not be free from his AP, then the A continues and you treat it as just that an ACTIVE A. You do things that you would be advised to do if their was an active A. Plan A then. Get prepared for Plan B. This is what you need to do right now.

Husband is still in hometown....at funeral going on now. I've texted him 3 times for different reasons......no responses. I can't believe how lonely I am. Even though our relationship wasn't the best, I miss his presenceand communication. I think of nothing else.

higgs, hang in there, it will get better. I promise you. What is happening is very good for your marriage.

Did you think about what I said this morning about facebook? I would strongly suggest you open it back up so you can answer any questions and tell ppl your PI caught him at her house on Tuesday. Explain how the PI has been following them and that he was there all weekend with her. Everything you say will be funneled back to her so do your best to scare the HELL out of her. Let on to her friends that you have had a PI follow them and know it all.

higgs, you need to be keeping yourself busy while he is away...this is a perfect time for you to be working on meeting his ENs!!

~Clean the house, organize, cook a few meals for this week (DS)
~get your hair cut and colored, brows waxed, a mani and a pedi(PA)
~you said you've lost some weight, go out and get yourself a new outfit! (PA)

These are but just a few ideas...it's never a good idea to sit around mourning what you have lost, instead take advantage of this time while he is away and REALLY focus on meeting his ENs.

You can do this, higgs!!

I think I will go get my hair cut. It's hard at school to focus. Thanks so much; I don't know what I would without this site.

y'all want to hear something strange?? I have known higgs' little brother for YEARS. He was a former co-worker and good friend of mine. He told me once she used to beat him up!

It really IS a small world after all, huh?

Is that just cosmic coincidence, or did you refer higgs to the site?

Wow, that is very cool ML. Just goes to show you, you never know who God is putting in your path and for what reason... even if it's years later that you find out.

It was a coincidence..

WOW the universe works in mysterious ways. I am glad for higgs that she has you though.

LOL....Thanks for all your help Melodylane; I think it's totally a God thing that I found you.

I'm upset because the stupid florist delivered the flowers to me instead of the funeral home....I'm just furious. Leave it to me to screw things up when trying to do something nice.

It was a total coincidence...my brother sent me to site, but never told me about Melody.....It was so funny when she said are you brother's sister? I was like "what?" "How did you know that? I'm so blessed to know all of you guys....I think I would be pulling my hair out if I wasn't here.

Get this....OW closed her facebook account. I was just looking around and it's no longer there. That's ok though....I printed out the list so if anything happens again, then I can still go look them up.

She may have blocked you... Mine did that.

I get the impression that she's a tough chick like that.

oh no, she is still on there! She just has you blocked.

So can you hide yourself on fb, so no one can search for you?

You sure can. That is called being 'blocked'. My WW has blocked me so I can't see her at all. Very strange.

You can hide yourself from certain people, so they cannot see you, yes.


On another note, let me tell you that when YOU aren't in the teacher's lunchroom, those gossipers are saying stuff like:

"If I found out my H was doing that, I hope I would have the nerve to do what SHE did!"

"That higgs is incredible! She has a set of brass ones to do that."

"If I caught another woman with my man, I would do the same thing, maybe worse. I'm with higgs."


You know, only the OW's friends are "stuck" having to defend her behavior. Trust me - they are in the MINORITY. The majority of the people are cheering you on, because they themselves wish they had the strength to stand up and defend themselves and their marriages - no holds barred - in the face of today's society.

As for your administrators, if they call you in and tell you to "keep quiet", you answer them this way:

"I have not, and will not, discuss my marriage with people during school time, nor will I utilize school resources to do so. I have exposed an extramarital affair, which does include inappropriate relations between two school employees - neither of which, by the way, is ME. This affair directly impacts my marriage, and I do intend to defend my marriage. I have not and will not involve the district except to the extent that it might require notification of HR regarding possible sexual harrassment issues, as policy dictates. Other than that, the district should not be involved in my personal business, and at this time I would request that you seek no further information from me regarding this matter unless it is in regard to a personnel action in a formal sense. Is this a formal action?"

If the answer from the principal is "NO", thank her kindly for her understanding, and also for seeing your need for sensitivity. Tell her that you realize the rumor mill is churning, but the exposure was necessary for the defense of the marriage, you did it outside of school hours, and any activity then and in the future will continue to be done in this manner.

And leave it there.


They have no business interfering with you.

Actually, they are attempting to get you to be quiet in order to stop the GOSSIP - that is all.

WHY?

BECAUSE THEY ALREADY KNEW ABOUT THE AFFAIR - LONG BEFORE YOU DID - AND DID NOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. NOW, THEY ARE COVERING THEIR BUTTS.

The gossip has gotten to the top - and the top wants something done, they asked, and the principals are holding the bag for not stopping the teachers from carrying on the inappropriate relationship -

so YOU are blameworthy.


Plain and simple.


You are the easiest one to SHUT UP.


Don't worry too much about this. Just tell them where you stand, and that they need to

STAND BACK.

It will shock the crap out of them.


SB

KUDOS SB. ITA.

Thanks Schoolbus,

I needed that!!!! When I talked to my husband tonight, I asked him his plan now that the funeral was over? He said, "I don't know; I'm not sure....why don't you call your PI or principal" (He used his principal's name....whom he hates.)

My husband's principal said that they will conduct an investigation for immoral terpitude or something like that. Apparently, they took the same days off.

Higgs, we are all so proud of you. You did it correctly, you did it well, and you did it fast!

They will probably get some sort of discipline from the district if they did take days off and lie about their whereabouts, or do anything at school or doing school hours. The union will get involved, mostly to protect them. Don't worry.

These actions are the consequences of what THEY did, not what YOU did. Affairs cause nasty consequences at work, at home, with family and friends. They are wrong, and those who have them need to face the reality of what they did - and let the reality replace the ridiculous fantasy they had of what it was.

It was disgusting, and dark, and seedy. It was wrong and hurtful and ugly. They are going to have to face it, and deal with it.

It isn't YOUR fault. You did what was needed to save your marriage and family. You did what your H needed to prevent him from making the worst mistake of his life.

I know it had to be done. I wish some of you really knew me; this whole exposure thing is completely out of my character and that's why it has been so hard. I'm a people pleaser...maybe not always in my marriage....but in every other way.

I think that is why this was so shocking to husband....I'm so passive even if I did find out; I would just divorce or whatever. Many of my co-workers have said, "you?" "you, did that?"

My goal today is to work on the tile that I haven't finished. I began a project laying ceramic title in dining room and never finished it. I'm going to continue to work on it a little at a time. Maybe I can get the whole entry hall finished this weekend. I so want my mom to come visit, but I feel it would be a bad time. I don't want to give him an excuse to stay away and that would do it.

You are STORNGER than you or anyone else ever thought. You are fighting for your marriage and doing the right thing. That is GREAT.

Good work finishing the things around the house.

IF you need your Mom's support at this time, why not call her? Why would you WH not want to be around your Mom? Do they usually have problems or do you think he would be uncomfortable because of his affair?

I don't doubt for a moment that this is out of character for you... it is out of character for almost everyone, I think. I myself wrestled with the decision of sending exposure letters to my H's jobs, I KNEW it had to be done, but it was darned hard to do.

Do you have any idea when WH will be returning home?

Before he comes home, be sure to hide all your evidence in a safe place that he can't find. A trusted friend or family member's house would be best. After exposure, my H searched through the whole house, my purse, my office, etc. (leaving a gigantic mess for me to clean up!) searching for my "evidence" even all the while still denying the A. Fortunately I had stashed it all at my sister's house. Also make sure you clear all browsing history, etc. on your computer so he doesn't find this website.

What I told H whenever he demanded to see my evidence: "I will not reveal anything until I feel safe in my M." I still haven't shown him, but he hasn't asked for it in months.

You're doing a good job so far!

I don't know when he will be home. This whole funeral has given him a reason to stay away. I'm guessing by tomorrow, but he won't talk to me much except to say mean things.

He doesn't really have a bad relationship with my mom, but yes, I think the affair would make him feel stressed in front of her. I don't want him to dart out again. I can't meet EN while he is gone.

Not a good time for your mom to come. Yes you need to focus on him not moving out. Once they are out it is much harder to get them back home He is angry, again, a good sign.
blessing

higgs,

Just start working on and keep focusing on your Plan A.

Don't get distracted from that Plan A by thinking about the worries of what OW is doing, what your WH is doing when he isn't with you, what your WH husband's reactions or actions might or might not be.

You control only ONE PERSON in this marriage - that is YOU.

As long as you think carefully about your actions, work a plan, and control what you are doing thoughtfully, you will do fine.

Make your mission to be THINKING about how you are reacting to this situation, and make your reactions as planned as possible.

While this is very difficult to do, the more you do it, the easier it will become, and the better you will feel emotionally.

As he comes at you with his anger, if you are thinking beforehand about the fact that he WILL BE COMING WITH IT, you will be ready and prepared to react. Your reaction will be better - and you will have reacted according to PLAN. With that success under your belt, the next step will feel easier (not that it will BE easier, but you will feel stronger about your skill set).

Because you are learning skills by reading the MB plans, and you are working the plans, you are learning what to expect, how to react, what to say. You are one step AHEAD OF HIM. If you read and stay ahead of him - in the sense that you can have at least some idea of how affairs tend to play out (the "script" as we like to call it), you can at least have an idea of what is likely to happen next.

You can watch for things - you can at least know what you are looking for. The risk of being totally and completely blindsided is at least reduced to some degree, just by reading and educating yourself here. I hope that gives you some measure of comfort.


Now that exposure is done, and he is angry, he is likely to brood for awhile. He will continue to deny the affair for awhile, at least until the evidence mounts to a point where he can no longer lie in the face of it. Because the district has the evidence of their having taken days off together, you now have that to add to the arsenal.

You have the PI information.

You have what the OW has said.


When he comes home, your approach should be that you "already know the affair took place" and his denial is ridiculous. The issue now for him should be that you are willing to forgive the affair, work on fixing the marriage and rebuilding - but that can ONLY happen with Radical Honesty between the two of you.

Ask him for Radical Honesty in a CALM and QUIET manner.

Sit and wait while he rages. Stick with the mantra that the marriage can be rebuilt, and you believe in him. That the foundation of RH can help getting you two the marriage you BOTH want.

And then, no matter what he says - YOU MUST LISTEN WITH AN OPEN HEART, DO NOT REACT ANGRILY, LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN,

and when he is done, tell him you love him and that you must take some time to digest it.

Do NOT argue with him. Do NOT beg, do not justify, do not disagree.

Whether he confesses the affair or not, let him just say what he has to say.

If he confesses, we can help you. If not, we can still help.

At some point, there needs to be some movement on his side, and your Plan A is to help him feel safe to tell you his "side". Listening to his side is part of that - and the more "open" you seem to him, the better this can play out for you. Just hear what he has to say, for now. Your turn comes later.

That is frustrating, yes. But for now it is what has to be done in order to get the process going

IMHO.

SB

In speaking to higgs on the phone, I am convinced that her H has meeting up with the OW at his camper at a lake. He suddenly started going to this lake alot in recent months.

He has not come home yet from the funeral [he is supposedly with his sisters] but when he called it sounded like he was at the lake. So, I have sent her off to see if the OW's car is at her home. If not, she is going to the lake to find him.

Well, it is possible she closed her account but I'm guessing that, rather, she just blocked you instead (made it so that "YOU", specifically, cannot find her). However, even if she "did" close her account, she could very well have just re-opened a new one, possibly under an "assumed" name (nickname, middle name...that type of thing). You may still be able to find out for sure by snooping through that list of friends of hers that you have printed off, though, as she may still be on "their" friends lists for you to see (depending on how "they" have their own privacy settings set because they, too, may now have you blocked). Either way, I'm still thinking she probably just has you blocked because, oh yes, she is getting scared of you and of what you are willing to do to save your marriage (the big ol' chicken, lol).

Maybe not, but you most certainly can have some of them "met" by the time he gets home. Of course, I myself don't know what your H's EN's are but, if they have anything to do with a clean house and a good looking W, you can work on stuff like that while he is away. Get the house spotless, cook some great food, take awesomely-wicked good care of yourself and, when he walks back in through the door, let him see you for the HOT-TAMALE you really are! Besides, you need to take care of yourself, too, higgs, if just to make yourself feel better and keep yourself sane through this whole process. So far, I will say that you are doing a SUPER job.

Absolutely correct.

If anyone can do this, higgs, it's YOU!!!

(((HUGS)))

isn't that a little dangerous? What if he has a gun? Or if OW does?
blessing

No, I don't think so. She already confronted them at the OW's house and was able to control herself.

Ok, that's good.
I guess she will have to find out what is going on and catching them together is the best way. He is very sneaky but it seems quite obvious he is with her....
blessing

Agree...

Higgs, if you want and have time read this article. It contains a simple releasing technique. You will be stuffing a lot of emotions while in plan A and they will come back to bite you in the bum unless you release them.
Do it till it works. It worked for me. It is simple so simple it might sound stupid. But just do it and you will see it works. Give it some time.
Link to article
http://www.beyond-karma.com/how-to/how-to-release-big-and-small-emotions-release/
Blessing

My friend just texted him about how disappointed she is in his affair. I'm planning on going by OW house tonight to see if car is there...if not, then I will head out to the lake just to check.

We have discussed, but he just goes on and on about how he would have never done this to me....told everyone about what he is doing,all the exposure. Someone is forwarding him emails that get sent...someone is keeping him updated about what I'm doing through email or text. I'm thinking that she would most likely be there in the darkness than the full daylight...I'm hoping I'm right...or wrong.

Higgs, if she has any snap at all, she will leave her car at her house with the lights on and find another way to the lake. PLEASE go out there! There is no way your H is going to stay out at a lake like that when he is in the throes of an addiction. I ASSURE you he did this last weekend too and was either at her house or the lake.


YIPPEE!!!! Good for your friend! Ask your friends and family to keep the pressure up!! The more texts and emails, the better!

How much would that PI charge to go out to the lake tonight and snap some pics?

I don't know...my mom is saying that she will go out there with a friend, so I'm giving directions....I'm still going to check the OW's house. I'll call him and check, but I only had about $200 left. I think I got railroaded with this PI in terms of the costs of everything.
My frined said H texted her back and said he felt justified in pursuing this woman because he knew that he wanted to leave me; he was already so unhappy. She asked him why didn't he just file for a divorce instead of lying and going around with this other woman.
I'm telling you I'm exhausted over this whole thing. If he planned on leaving me anyway, then what will keep him from doing it now?

Even better!!



No, he didn't plan on leaving you anyway. If he planned on leaving you he would have left you. That is his rationalization for having an affair. It is bullcrap. What will cause him to not leave you in the future will be killing the affair.

Stick to the plan, higgs!! Stop concerning with yourself with the fogbabble of a falling down drunk and focus on killing his affair.

He just told me friend that he was going to be a single man soon anyway. What's that mean?

This is a big fat lie, he planned on no such thing, this is his excuse to make it look like OW is not the problem.

They ALL say this, higgs...do not believe a word he says.

Do you know how you know if wayward is lying? His mouth is OPEN and words are coming out.

Remember this!

See my above post.

He is a lying sack of horsesh*t.

Here is what that means: CLICK HERE

Yep, it's all a load of crap. He thought he could have his fun on the side and still have his wife and family. Don't pay any attention to his bullcarp.

Higgs, I know you are exausted - emotionally and physically - but you are doing great! You exposed and you are killing the affair. What he is saying and doing now are the rantings of the crazy person he has been and is. Don't listen. Don't let it be meaningful. It isn't.

Keep it up, girl! Imagine all of us right behind you cheering!

Just got back from the lake and he wasn't there...said he was at a friends house 17 miles from there. I just went back home. I'm so tired and I don't know about anything anymore.

Another alone morning. Our grass is knee high, and my family does not know what to think. I'm still going to try, but it's hard to keep my countenance up. I'm a nervous wreck everyday wondering what's going to happen next. I appreciate everyone's support here.

((((higgs))))

I am sorry. I understand how you feel. We all understand how you feel. It is hard. Pepperband told me on my thread that Plan A is hard. Plan B is harder. Recovery is harder still. Although when you are in Plan A, it doesn't feel like anything could be harder.

They are each hard in their own way. Plan A is EXTREMELY taxing on you emotionally. That's why it is a SHORT TERM thing. It can't be held up too long. DrH recommends about 3-4 weeks for women. Some women can accomplish a longer Plan A. You will know when the timing is right. We will help you. I found it easier to do my PLan A when I knew there was an end date.

How will I know...he never comes home long enough to accomplish anything. He's not sorry and he thinks he is the victim here. If he continues to just stay away do I go to plan B? I guess I've only been in plan A for about a week.

I would say that if he comes home today at all...it will be late tonight....anything to keep from being around me.

higgs, just continue to be as pleasant as possible and plan to go into Plan B in about 2 weeks. Get your ducks in a row and start separating credit cards, bank accounts, etc. Do you have the book Surviving an Affair?

If you have the time, go read Mimi's thread. Her H was alot like yours and they ended up back together in a very happy marriage in the end.

Just keep your focus on making your home as pleasant as possible so when you do go dark, that will be the last thing he remembers.

where do I find her thread?

higgs, can you mow the lawn? Maybe it would be a good idea to get the family focused on more positive things now and take back control of your lives. When you are in Plan B, you wont' be dealing with his craziness every day and you will feel much better after a couple of weeks.

Yes, I can...the neighbor helped me to hang the blinds...and he also said that he would mow the front if needed and my boys can mow the back.

He just texted me and told me that he was on his way...I'll be trying to get things nice.

Here is one of Mimi's main threads: here

She DID break Plan B a couple of times and came to regret it when she realized she only prolonged the affair doing that. Keep that in mind when reading her thread.

When he starts chastising you for exposing him, don't allow him to guilt you and don't get baited into a fight. Just say, I am so sorry you are upset and then leave the room. No crying, pleading, fighting. Pleasant, pleasant, pleasant.

Tell him you know of a program that can fix the problems in your marriage and you are willing to try that if he ends his affair with SkankHo.

Yes, this is extremely important. It will likely be hard, of course, but it's worth the effort so be just as pleasant as you possibly can be. Remember, you want your DH to feel comfortable around you because, if he isn't, he won't WANT to be around you and that, obviously, is not your goal. If he says something that angers you (and he will) do your best to not let his words affect you in a way that will make you "react". Don't cry, beg, scream, etc...those are all reactions that will make him want to turn and run the other way (and in turn make the OW look that much more appealing to him...soooooo not what you want). Be the bigger woman, higgs, and let him "see" that you are better than that SkankHo he seems to finds so...wonderful (yuk), right now. After all, sooner or later his fantasy WILL show itself as a reality and then he will see this OW as nothing more than the SkankHo she really is. Keep doing what you are doing and this reality might just come to light sooner than you know it.

We're rooting for you, higgs, we know you can do this!!!

(((HUGS)))

He's home and eating my big dinner, but wouldn't let me fix his plate.

Ok, he was home all of 2 hours, payed his bills on his computer, hooked up his boat and left without saying a word. Daughter told me he was taking boat to lake, but he would be back. I decided to call him and ask what happened?? He said that he was taking his boat to lake to leave it because his truck is too undependable, so if he wants to go to lake then he can take his car...he has two vehicles. Then, when I asked him when he would be back, he said in the morning before school. He said, "if you want to send your PI or come up here yourself, I don't care....or maybe you want to go hunt up OW...I don't know where she is" I asked why he wasn't coming home tonight and he said that he was tired of driving, tired of all this S&*t, and wants rest.

When I drive by OW's house the car is still there....don't know what to think and I'm too tired to drive another 2 hours out there again.

I've been thinking about the surviving an affair book...I'm still reading. Isn't the whole exposure thing a form of love busting? He sees it as a retaliatory act. I can't help wondering what he is up to??? I keep thinking that he isn't in the affair anymore, but he's going to just go ahead and leave me because of the retaliation.

If I go to plan B....do I need to do it from a legal seperation standpoint? How does that work with my children?

What do I need to look for on digital recorder? Most look like the size of a cell phone? Is there a certain brand that is better than others? What do I need to know about them?

higgs, there is a big difference between ENABLING and avoiding lovebusters. For example, it is a "lovebuster" to take the car keys away from a falling down drunk, but the risk to himself and your marriage is much greater if you DON'T. It is the same thing with exposure. The risk of the affair to your marriage is much greater if you don't. And yes, he is in the affair. They don't ever end this easy. Go read Dr Harley's recommendations on exposure.

ALL WS' view exposure as "MEAN" and "vindictive," just as all falling down drunks view taking away the car keys as mean and vindictive. But when they sober up, they are grateful you did.

Just the fact that they will see each other at work on Monday means the affair is still on. Seeing each other = affair still on.


It depends. You don't have to do that to go into plan B but it is a pretty good idea. In Texas, I don't believe you can file for separation, though. I think you have to file for divorce. In your situation, I would tell him in your plan B letter you expect him to continue to pay the bills as usual and that you will allow him to see the kids when he wants.

Go check out spying 101. I think there are some good suggestions from doormatnomore about them. here

If you would like some advice about having to go the LS route, you need to consult an attorney and ask what you should go to legally cover your own butt.

As far as how it will be with your children, you will need to get yourself an IM. Then you could add an addendum to your Plan B letter, discussing the visitation schedule. Your children are old enough to walk out to the car by themselves. That's what my children do. I never see WH unless I intend to. That's a dark Plan B.

Do you have anyone in mind to pick as an IM? Will you be consulting an attorney? Do you know what your rights are as far as CS? What about what you can legally do about the visitations?

RIGHT NOW You have to make sure that whenever you do have contact with him, you are your best self. Plan A is about you learning how to be, and becoming the best wife and mother you are. Plan B will be about you removing yourself from the drama and abuse of this horrible affair. You can do this.

Exposure

higgs,


I believe his comment regarding "being single soon anyway" would be referred to as a "resignation comment".

Had he said this aloud, he would have sounded resigned to what he believes is the fact that YOU are going to divorce him for the affair.


Your job now is to convince him that you are willing to work this thing through. That you are willing to forgive him - that you still believe in the marriage - and that your exposure was a necessary step in that process.

Your words must reaffirm this - each and every time he complains about "retaliation", your words back to him must always be along these lines:

My heart could not allow your secret to continue - the only way to protect OUR marriage was to shed light on the affair.

Your affair was damaging our marriage, and our marriage can survive your anger. It cannot survive your continued affair.

Exposing your affair was the first step toward recovering our marriage on a foundation of honesty between the two of us - we must build this marriage together and and I believe we can do that, but only if your affair stops. We can rebuild. I can forgive.


Keep the mantra going that exposure was to rebuild the marriage, that you believe in him, and can forgive him.

Right now, he thinks he has exploded a bomb on everything. His job, his marriage, and his affair. Actually, he HAS! And YOU NEED TO BE THE ONE PLACE TO COME HOME TO.

He did come home, higgs. He did. That is something to think about, because he came home, ate, and looked at the situation - he was sizing it up.

He left because he still isn't sure.....the kids, you, everything, he is still afraid.


Reassure him.


Be the anchor - even though you made his seas rough - he might still come back.

Trust and believe in that. The MB plans work....so work the plans.

SB

The problem is I can't help but wonder if he left to be with her again. That's the hardest part of this for me is to relax and let it go.

I keep wanting to hunt him down, but at the same time, I'm exhausted. I know I sound like a clanging gong, but I have to express how I feel and this is it. Thanks for everyone's encouragement.

Just got back from some detective work....turned up nothing. She has a alley that runs behind her house. I sat directly behind her house for a couple of hours. I drove around looking to see if he might have parked truck up road or on another street...didn't see anything. I kept thinking that if he was in there, he might come out for a ciagarette....nothing. I finally decided to come home.

I'm in A really similar position and feel exactly like you do. I constantly wanna know where my wife is and want to stop her from being with OM. It's real tough. This morning she came back, cleaned up, packed up some clothes, had some food and she's off to stay with a friend in her
spare room (so she says but I believe her this time, I can easily check) since I exposed everything on Thursday she has been staying with OM. Shes acting so strange it's unbelievable, she can't even look me in the eye when she speaks. Good luck with your WH, it seems we're in the best place for help!

higgs-while you don't want to do anything that encourages the A, you really can't stop him from going out to be with her. I KNOW. There was a few times after DDay that I KNEW WH was going to be with OW. I just let him know that I KNEW and that I wasn't going to accept it. I said things like, "Your actions are hurting me. I believe in a marriage with only 2 people, would you like a cookie?" "I can not accept a marriage where you have a girlfriend, thanx for making dinner."

I know it is HARD to pull of a SUPERB Plan A, but you have shown so much strength so far, I KNOW you can do this.

Vent here whenever you need to. Just let us know you are venting so we don't worry too much and we will know how to help you.

You're doing GREAT.

Thanks Scotland,

I do mostly vent on here. I don't want to be too much of a burden to my parents or other people. It's a great comfort to me to be able to come here and tell my story and get advice.

He's suppose to be home this morning....we'll see.

One thing in Plan A.............. NO EXPECTATIONS.

If he comes home, fine. If he doesn't, fine. Get it.

So do you have an end date for Plan A(a start date for Plan B)?

I found it easier to do my Plan A when I KNEW what my end date was. That way I could count down the minutes until my pain and problems in Plan A would be OVER.

I do have somewhat of a plan, but no definite end date. I guess I keep thinking about what needs to happen before I go into plan b. I found a recorder at target for $60.....by Olympus..... Does that seem like a good brand 888 hours. I worry about using Velcro and it falling out at his feet. Any ideas about making sure it won't come out?

Just make sure the area you're sticking it on is clean and grease-free. Line the whole back with velcro - that's overkill, believe me. You'll be fine. One thing you've got to watch is to carefully remove it when you're taking it out to listen to. You don't want the one side of the velcro that's attached to the car to come off.

Does it have to be under the steering wheel?

Ok I bought digital voice recorder......$40 by Sony. 534 hours. What kind of Velcro should I get?

Get a pack of adhesive velcro. WalMart or just about any craft store will have it. How long is the VAR? Mine was about 3 inches. Cut the piece (both sides stuck together) to fit the back of the VAR. You'll be good to good. Just remember when you're taking it out of the car to listen to, to separate the sides so that one side remains stuck to the car.

It does not have to be under the steering wheel, higgs, but that is one of the best places to put it to "pick up sound" (ie: voice(s). Either way, wherever you do decide to put it, make sure that it will not be in an area noticable to anyone. From what I've heard, some people even hide recorders under their seats but, of course, finding the ideal spot is probably best decided by yourself. If you can put it under the steering wheel "out of sight," that would likely be the ideal spot (IMO).

The recorder you got, though...is it a "voice activated" one? If not sure, check the box/package it came in, it should say somewhere on it whether it is or not. Hopefully, it is, those are the best ones to use in these types of scenarios.

Wow, you are getting so good at all of this snooping stuff, higgs, that I think I may have to start referring to you as 'Columbo' from now on, lol. ;-)

Keep it up, you are doing remarkably well.

(((HUGS)))

My DAR is about 4-5 inches....but it can be set to be voice activated. He's here for now and was home early. He's driving his saturn for now; he says that the truck is overheating. I just hope he's not out there changing the code to his lock box...that's where the keys are. I'll be out for sure if he changes it.

Things almost seem normal, but I know better.

If I can't get any voice recordings...what will I do to determine if he is still meeting with OW?

If you can't determine it, then you can't.


You still go on under the assumption that he is, until you know for sure he isn't.

You will know - when your HUSBAND reappears, and that wayward idiot stops speaking to you.

You will know when the OW starts making noise about how YOU are terrible, how badly YOUR HUSBAND treated her (you will hear the gossip!), and when your husband starts hanging around more and more trying to do things for you...acting like a MAN and not a hurt little boy who is blaming YOU for the stupid crap he has done.


That's how you will know he isn't contacting her anymore.

I think there are already cracks in this affair, given what the OW has said, the anger level he has, and the stuff he said about being single "anyway". I don't think the pressure on the job front is helping his case with OW, either. While they may try going underground deeper for a bit, this stuff has a way of backfiring in the school setting - remember the gossipers? They will be just chomping at the bit to polish the principal's apple and report these two. The eyes are watching - and YOU SET THEM ON THE SCENT.

You hang in there. If the tape recorder doesn't work, don't sweat it. Watch his cell phone records, see if you can find a secret email account, watch his spending records, and just follow him when you can.

You are doing great. Stay on Plan A until you NEED Plan B.


Get an intermediary set up and in place. Have this be a close friend of yours, and have that person start reading the Marriage Builders concepts - because the IM needs to understand their role in this and protect you if you need a Plan B.

But know this - not everyone needs a Plan B. There is history here that WS have come home with Plan A only. It happens.


Maybe you should take a risk - ask your husband if he would consider counseling. Tell him that you CAN forgive him for his affair, tell him that you understand your contributions to the state of the marriage PRIOR TO HIS AFFAIR (but do NOT take the blame for his affair), and tell him you believe the marriage can work through this.

See what he says. It might make him think about things a little differently - at this point, it could give him an option he is not considering.

SB

He came home early, we ate pizza and cleaned up around the house. He kept asking me if I had any more of his bills....I think he thinks I'm holding out on him, but I'm not. After dinner, I went outside to just be present and around him while he tooled around in the garage (not sure what he was doing) He pulled up a chair next to me and said, "What's on your mind?" I think I screwed up because i said, "Nothing, just enjoying the cool front that came in." We then proceded to talk about our daughter, his car and other family issues. I feel like he might have talked about "things" but I was afraid of the answer.

Then, like a bad rerun....he got in his car and said, "I'll be back in a sec" The biggest rock lay in the pit of my stomach at this comment. All I could think was, "Where is he going now" I kinda hoped that maybe he was going to smoke a cigarette....he usually does this in the front yard when no one is around, but I kept hanging around so much, he didn't get a chance. I hope he's not gone too long.

A good thing is that the lock box has the same combo as before, so I still have access. Maybe I can get it on there tonight.
My brother said he would be my go between when I go to plan B. He's real good at stuff like that...keeping things seperate and real.

He does know that he is only to pass on pertinent info right?

Like...

WH: Tell higgs she's a @$*& for keeping the kids on this day and not letting me have them this afternoon. Tell her I sent her @$&& support.

Your brother to you: WH says he sent the support.

Yes, I told him that he cannot communicate the garbage that he lets out. Also, someone told me that there's a link he could read about what the intermediary's role is in this whole thing.

He's been gone 35 min now....I'm counting down...this whole thing makes me sick.

higgs, here is the link for your brother. And if he has any questions, just tell him he can call me. Intermediary Training School

He came back in 45 minutes.....just came in and ate some dessert and now he just went to bed. I'm wondering about putting that voice recorder in his car as it is a standard....I'm wondering how much talking that he can do while trying to shift...I guess anything is possible. I use to know friends who could smoke a cigarette, eat a hamburger and shift gears all at the same time.LOL

I wish i could read his mind.

Tried to get in his computer...new password...big surprise there. Also, no keys to car in lockbox...I don't know where they are. I guess this is how it's going to be???

Higgs, is your name on the car title? If so, you can go to the dealership where you bought the car and ask them for the key code to the car. Make up a story...lost the keys, whatever. They can make you a key to the car; then, you'll have your own set, which might come in handy somewhere down the road.

Hi, no it's not on the title, but I have the vin number on the insurance card. He bought this used car through craig's list. I was able to pry the door open, but don't know what to use to get something in there to pop the lock. It's one of those locks that have to be pulled...hanger won't work....to flimsey. It's impossible. I can get in his truck, but he won't be driving that. I guess I oould put it in there for when he does drive it. Any other ideas for getting in?

I guess I'm bumping for more information on getting a key made.

You'll have a hard time getting a key made if it's got a computer chip in it. Many newer model cars have them now.

Do you know anyone like a mechanic who has a slim jim? Disclaimer: you've got to be careful with this - it could damage the car. A knowledgeable mechanic could use one to get in the car, though.

Ugh! If you don't know where the car was bought new, then you can't get the key code. Slim jims don't always work, though. I locked myself out of my vehicle one night and the cops said that their slim jim wouldn't work because the windows were made to be more burglar-proof.

Any chance of your being able to "borrow" the car to run errands and getting a key made while you're gone?

Higgs:

It is NOT critical that you get the VAR in the vehicle TODAY. It is only important that you DO.

He has changed the password on his computer, and is keeping his car keys somewhere else. That is all you need to know right now. He istrying to hide as much as possible from you.

You don't want him finding you at 2 pm in the morning while trying to velcro the VAR into his car. You will get a number of other chances. Heck, you can put it by the couch or bed he is sleeping on, for right now.

You have done alot of good things so far, so keep it up, but do not trapped by undue haste.

LG

I was able to get it in there this morning.....he had put the keys back in box and then took a shower. I was able to put in this morning. I also found out that he has no plans to go to the lake.

Hang tight Higgs. You are doing a spectacular job. Well done.

I sent him a message about forgiving him and wanting to move forward. I'm hoping for a miracle...we'll see.

Higgs,

I've been following along and rooting for you. Your comment about forgiving him caused me to de-lurk.

Now is not the time to talk to him about forgiveness. He hasn't even admitted all the harm he has done to you and your M, much less shown true remorse. When that happens and when he asks for forgiveness, then you can do it when you're ready.

Many BS's, myself included, make it too easy on the WS when the A comes to light. In my case, the A was over and H was horrified at what he'd done and full of remorse. I didn't set the bar high enough in terms of recovery. (I thought I had radical honesty 7 months after d-day, but I really didn't. More stuff came to light and let me tell you, it was even more painful the second time around than the first. Counseling with Steve is getting us where we need to go.)

When it comes time to do the hard work of recovering your M, you'll need a lot more than just remorse from your H. You'll need to see him do whatever it takes protect himself and to make you feel safe. If he gives you what you need, then the forgiveness part will come naturally.

For now, just focus on doing a great Plan A and snooping like crazy.

Bea

Hi Bea,

Maybe that was a little premature because you are right....he is not remorseful or sorry....he's still very mad at me. He came home almost 2 hours late tonight...then went straight to bed. I told him I had dinner ready, but he said he couldn't eat....acting real depressed.

I asked him where he was and all he would tell me was that he had business to take care of...I asked what business and he said, "he had to pick something up"....still keeping the truth from me. I'm going out of my mind and I'm sure I'm driving ya'll crazy. I was also wondering if something happened at school with the investigation??? He's very bumbed acting. I can't help but wonder where he is when he doesn't come home; it's making me crazy.

higgs, please call that PI and ask him about the GPS!

Can you get the VAR and see whats on there?

What is D day? I keep seeing it, but wasn't sure what it stood for?

Melody,

The PI is dragging his but now that he's been paid. He said that my name had to be on the title in order to put GPS on car. He never mentioned that before when we were actively trying to find my H. Now, it's illegal. Any ideas about that?

I can't get to car right now...he came straight in and the keys are with him. I'll have to wait till morning or tonight if he brings them out.

higgs, D-Day means discovery day. Go check out the thread on the GPS phone. Jim says it can be done for $50.

higgs,

You can get a key at any authorized dealership by using the VIN, but you have to be the registered owner. You cannot get one if you are not the "registered" owner. Your name does not have to be on the title - just the vehicle registration with the state.

(I have been a title clerk, and have extensive experience in automotives.)

The VIN carries all the vehicle information, and any dealership can call it up on the computer. There are actually very few keys made for any given car model. Each key is not unique - believe it or not! That would mean that manufacturers would have to make hundreds of thousands of unique keys, and they don't do that. Each model of vehicle has a specific number of unique keyprints and keycodes assigned. The cars are sent out of the factory, and as each is sent to this or that area of the country, the keyprint and code are selected based on a system that reduces the chance that two vehicles will be in the same place and time with the same keyprint and code. So your key will actually fit other cars - but the chance that you will find the others is REALLY SLIM.

But there is a chance!

Back to your regularly scheduled program, after this brief and ridiculous break of

"stupid stuff I have learned over the years in jobs I have had that are bizarre".


SB

bad news....he found the VAR. I went to car and he had windows down...made me wonder? Then I looked under the seat...nothing. I then saw it laying on the floorboard of back seat. When I played it....there's nothing.

This may explain his depression and going straight to bed. Was this a major love buster? I've really screwed up. My husband doesn't fit all the molds and I'm sure there was something that tipped him or maybe he's being extra cautious now....not sure.

What now? I'll never know if he's being truthful or not.

aw damn! I'm so sorry higgs! Where had you put it? Sorry I can't help.

Higgs,

Right now you are doing the hardest thing you will ever do in your life. You have no training and no experience. Luckily for you, you found this place and all the wisdom and support that goes with it. Keep reading as much as you can and post as much as you can about what you're doing. If something doesn't sound right, you can be sure someone will pipe up!

As far as the forgiveness thing goes, offering forgiveness where none has been earned will make you look weak and desperate. In Plan A you want to show the awesome wife that you will be if he comes back to the M. You want to show him your strength, confidence and self-respect.

If you haven't had a chance to read Scotland's thread about her Plan A experience, you should try to find the time (so easy, right?). She did an incredible job. She maintained her dignity while not tolerating the nasty A business from her WH.

Stay strong!

Bea

I just read about the discovery of the VAR. Is it possible that he knows about this site and is following along?

NO, I don't think he knows the site. He's just always been mr detective himself. I think he probably looks around for it. I've also been thinking that maybe it fell an slid back? I don't know. He hasn't said anything. It was laying under there. I've deleted all history everytime I leave here, so I would be surprised. I've certainly not said anything.

I'm just not good at this and I hope that I can just maintain my sanity

So do you think he didn't see it, and it just slid to the back?

I put it under the seat, but the car gets hot and it probably fell. It just didn't record anything but about 5 seconds of the car. I wonder if when it fell, it turned it off. It was off when I found it.

I don't know...he's taken off again. He told me he was going to smoke a cigarette because he doesn't want to smoke in front of the kids. He also said that he was going through some tough s%^t and he's wondering whether he wants to go on. I'm wondering what he's thinking.

I guess i'm going to bed....I'm tired...sometimes I just want to forget it all and resign myself to losing.

Higgs-We all feel like that. That's your emotions. Just remember what you want to accomplish. Even if you don't save your marriage, you will know that you did EVERYTHING possible to save it. You will live with no regrets. No what ifs. That is why I started it. Now I continue because I believe that if I was to throw in the towel now, I should have just done that in the beginning and not gone through this. It also feels a lot better than it did before. I promise. It is worth it. Either way, it is the right thing to do. You can do this.

If at any point, you really choose not to do this anymore and you are truly DONE, we will support that decision as well. Just make sure it is not done on emotions alone.

Higgs! You have not lost! Not by a long shot. Lets stick to the plan. Keep focusing on doing the best plan A you can for now and start getting your ducks in a row for Plan B. Keep your chin up! I have much worse than this come back and make a full recovery. This is far, far from over!

He came in at about 10:00 last night and came straight to bed. I guess I'm going to just leave him alone until I see something change. I will be getting plan b ready.

Everyday is such a struggle. I appreciate everyone's support.

Just keep up your PLan A and don't worry about what he is doing. Don't worry about how he is reacting. You just focus on the things that you can control. The only things that you can control are the things you do. Become the most wonderful wife that you can. Believe me, a good Plan A is empowering. It is emotionally taxing. Just come on here and vent about how horrible your WH is being so you can plaster on a SMILEY face.

Also, you should take a couple of opportunities to say, "Hey hun, I am gonna go out for a bit. Watch the kids." Then you go drive to a park(preferably deserted) and yell at him. I used to cry in the car all the way to work and back. I would cry in the shower. I was a basket case. But in front of him, I was smiling and happy.

I would say these statements over and over again(I got them from MB and I didn't want to deviate). "I believe in a marriage with only 2 people." or "I can not accept a marriage where you have a girlfriend." This is the one I would use when he was going to see POSOW. I couldn't stop him. Even if I were to lay down in front of him crying and screaming, he would most likely just walk right over me.

It hurts in Plan A. It kills you emotionally(hence the reason DrH recommends such a short time frame). You can do this.

All you have to do is do things that would meet him top 5 ENs(don't expect a positive reaction though), and don't commit any LBs. Make yourself look and smell good. Make the house look and smell great. Play with the kids.

Are there any complaints that your WH had about your marriage PRE-A? This is important. Any complaints since the A are justifications that he has used to convince himself that this was okay.

Have you read my thread? The first 45 pages are my Plan A. The next 145 are Plan B. There is a lot of posts about random life events, but it is all about my life.

BTW, did you tell your children yet?

Yes they know and my boys are starting to treat him with disrespect. I'm going to have another talk with them tonight. I'm trying not to appear needy, but it's difficult.

It's hard to be strong and confident when my life is such a mess.

Higgs, I don't think you are giving yourself enough credit on doing as well as you are. Seriously, hon, you are doing fantastic so don't beat yourself up with the "I think I screwed up" stuff. You haven't screwed up, you are simply going through what many in your position (trying to save your marriage) go through and you "ARE" doing an amazing job. Actually, I think you deserve a pat on the back for doing as well as you are. "This" is not an easy thing to go through (or do), but yet, here you are, doing it and doing it in a wonderful fashion. Give yourself a break, dear, you are doing better than you even know.

Yes, it surely is, but being strong and confident is exactly what you need at a time like this so keep at it, keep at it, keep at it. After all, why do you think so many people are rooting for you, higgs? It's because we've come to care about you, respect you, love you "ANNND" because we "KNOW" that you can do it...that's why!

Higgs, if he asks about the VAR, use reverse babble...

WH: What is this?
Higgs: A little black box?
WH: Where'd it come from?
Higgs: Do you know?
WH: Come on, what's going on?
Higgs: I wonder that myself.
WH: Are you spying on me?
Higgs: Could I?
WH: WTH!!!
Higgs: Speaking of, I believe in a marriage with only 2 people, would you like a cookie?"

He hasn't mentioned the recorder, but I don't know that he would. Thanks for the cheering. It so helps for me tocome here. I'm planning spaghetti for tonight and some time with kiddos.

Hi Higgs,

I have thought a couple of times now that maybe he's reading here on MB. He'd have only had to have a single clue... any chance?? He's trips out could be to access the internet?

If so, at least he knows that you love him and want the marriage to work.

Just a thought. Hang tuff!

My WH found the VAR. I know because it was moved and OFF. I was slightly discouraged. I thought about borrowing someone else's and putting BOTH in the car. Then I decided to put it in the house near the computer. I "caught" phone calls between WH and POSOW while I was at work.

BTW, WH NEVER mentioned it at all. He just moved it so I would KNOW that he KNEW. I never mentioned it either. As far as I can tell WH doesn't know about MY thread or this site. He seemed to be pretty surprised by my Plan B.

I'm not sure , but I've not given any clues. I noticed that I posted that I put the car on his car at 9:30. He would have been at school....we can 't access this at school. I used my iPhone.

But if he's technically saavy, he could set up a rule that forwards any updates to your thread straight to his email, but that would require him setting up an account.

This could be a good thing and a bad thing. Good in that he's being exposed to the GOOD STUFF on this site, bad that he's getting a headsup on your moves.

Higgs,

I am here to offer more support and inspiration. Remember that you are in a war. This thing about failing because of the VAR is just a small battle. Don't sweat it and don't stop planning YOUR strategy. I remember feeling very helpless and powerless too during my FWW adultery. Plan A was terrible painful I was there too. But the truth is that while he is lost and wandering, you are learning and growing. Do not take your eye off the goal- a great NEW restored marriage.

One thing you might put into your strategy is to learn to ASK as in "Spouse, I know our past has been problematic and I want to apologize for the things I have done that have hurt you and our marriage. During this crises I have realized that I love you and want to have a great marriage with you. If there was a program, book, seminar, etc to help us learn how to have a great marriage would you look at it with me because I don't understand the part about men's needs? Its right here on page XX of HNHN."

During my sales career I learned that people are not open to someone convincing them of anything.

ME- Hi, I'm selling life insurance. You probably need some. Look at this great product that will blah blah blah. This generates immediate NOs.

See how that comes off as arrogant and disrespectful? Instead...

Hi, (after introductions)Do you own any life insurance? "
THEM- "Well I have some but I'm not sure if its enough."

Now the exchange is positive and rewarding. You have probably heard this here alot that you cannot try to change or control your spouse but you can ask them for change and effort.

With apologies for length, below I provided my inspiration for plan A. I hope you find a nugget or two in there for yourself.

I hope this post gets pinned for other BSs because if you read my posts down below you will see it works and your faith in these concepts and pricipals will grow and you will come through all of this bull**** stronger, better person, better marriage etc. Your plan is right here, its SAA and MB way. Dr Harley rules. Work the plan, be a man (or woman) with a plan, don’t allow yourself to be thrown around in a tumultuous ocean of feelings. Feelings are temporary and many times they betray us. Do the plan based on your goals and your convictions and your vows. This is where real confidence comes from. That is the most attractive thing your WS will see. Panic does no good (I panicked for 2 weeks). You will panic. Tell yourself I am having a bad hour, not a bad day. I am having a bad day, not a bad week. etc.

I am sensing the end of my plan A. I know it has worked. Wife told me so. But she cannot let go of her addiction. She says she is changing her mind hour by hour, day by day. She cannot decide so I must. I have a plan, MBer’s plan. It worked so far. I will trust it more.

Plan A serves many purposes.
1) Primarily it serves to demonstrate to your spouse the partner you can and will become with improvements that will meet their EN’s and avoid LBer’s. Read, Read, read HNHN, LBer’s, or for a simpler approach read Gary Chapman 5 Languages of Love.

2) It gives the WS time to decide to end the A before separation.

3) It gives BS time to deposit as many love units into WSs account as possible. It sucks that your primary duty becomes give, give, give while your Taker is screaming at you and your spouse is trampling all over you.

4) It gives time for exposure to work. Two approaches here: 1) Expose all at once to as many as you feel will be effective or 2) Expose like peeling an onion, each layer adds to the affect.

5) It gives BS time to fall out of love. Plan B is on the horizon and when that time comes hopefully you will not hurt so badly after 3-6 months of your own EN’s not being met.

Plan A “strategeries”:
1) Get right with God. I would not be in this mess if I had obeyed biblical rules and my vows. Instead I fell prey to the ways of the world: sin, selfishness and lust. BUT, I have been forgiven through Jesus Christ. We all need saving at one time or another, most of us need it all the time. Pray. Ask others to pray for the 2 of you and your marriage. Days when I was at my lowest and about to give up, fellow Christians would call me out of the blue, people I barely knew and give me strength to press on.

My wife replaced me with another man. I replaced her with God. I prayed daily, then 2 times a day, somedays I prayed hourly. I prayed for my wife, for her to have strength, for her to open her heart again to me and the Lord. I prayed for and with our children. I prayed with my in-laws. I prayed in the bathroom at work, in the car to and from work. I asked God for a miracle in my marriage. GOD DELIVERED see below! She thinks God is not talking to her but she is wrong, she is just not listening. I don’t mean that to sound condescending but I swear God has provided me/us with miracles, some small, some big. She just won’t acknowledge them. When we went around the table at Thanksgiving saying what we are thankful for my 5 year old said God and Jesus. Tell me that’s not a miracle.

Just today my MIL forwarded her typical mass email but this one said “Nobody falls in love by choice, its chance. Nobody stays in love by chance, its work. Nobody falls out of love by chance, its choice. If that’s not God talking to WSs I don’t know what is. I have many more examples.

2) Grow. Make up your mind to grow through the tough times. Failure is really the only place we learn. I grew, I read extensively. Counseling helped me greatly when we did the Meyers Briggs personality profiles. She is stuck, not growing, only read one book. I changed the bad stuff, I learned how to stop attacking my marriage (withdrawing from arguments instead of communicating with her), I learned how to not LBust. I learned what EN of hers I was neglecting. I admitted my mistakes. I asked for forgiveness from her and God for not honoring my vows. I am being a responsible and caring adult with a family who needs me.

3) Demonstrate what you learned in #2. Change is possible and real. Change will be noticed but may go unacknowledged by WS. Change will be acknowledged but not be trusted by WS. Press on. Demonstrate your changes and how you can meet WS ENs, don't state them. Walk the (positive) walk. State your LBers, don't demonstrate them. Don't walk the (negative) talk. Tell yourself your happiness does not depend on your WS. Repeat! Now go do something that does make you happy, reading for me, reading to my 5 yr old, helping DD with math, etc. This helped me a lot early on.

S. Harley described plan A like this: (sorry I don't know who to attribute this too but someone else posted it first) Imagine trying to cross a river with no boat, you need to build a bridge but your only resource is rocks on the river bank. Every EN you meet for your WS and every good deed/positive interaction you do for them is a rock you throw into the stream. Many rocks get thrown in without any obvious progress because they are hidden beneath the surface, all at the bottom of the river. But then one day a rock breaches the surface. aahhh progress that you can finally see. Its been happening all along but you couldn't see it till now. Keep throwing rocks. Still need to cross the river.

4) Take care of self. Emotionally you might be a wreck so balance this by getting physical and spiritual in shape. You will lose weight; you might as well make the most of it. I worked out, gained muscles. I look great, always was too skinny. Instead of running to her to get her to change her mind about our marriage, I did sit-ups and pushups. She is stuck, gained 10 pounds in 3 months.

5) Keep living. Get out with other people. Sometimes to vent, sometimes to have fun. She was stuck in bed crying when I went to my friend’s mother’s funeral. He needed me. She didn’t.

My opinion on the "need to know" and talk about or discuss the A during plan A: Don't. If you keep bringing up OP the focus of your conversations with spouse is on OP. You want it to be just the 2 of you as much as possible. Be attentive and caring, listen, offer help. If you want details, thats understandable BUT the details will then consume your thoughts about where and what you were doing while WS was doing god knows what with god knows who. That leads to anger and LBing big time. That will NOT help plan A. Details and A talk can come after plan A assuming you enter recovery. I rarely asked my spouse if she had spoken to or seen OM. I knew deep down, it was obvious in her actions, demeanor and mood. I just kept on being the great spouse she needed.

The end of plan A has to come before you start LBing all over your WS. I caught myself last night and left the house for 2 hours. I was so mad that I might have blown a gasket in front of her and kids. I can't believe her selfishness. It’s amazing how people refuse to make decisions because of their own pain they will feel. How about the pain our 3 kids are going to feel? Narcissism I guess is the keyword.

At the end of plan A, because your ENs likely have gone unmet, you will probably also be out of love from WS as they are from you. This is important because when plan B goes into affect it may not be as bad as you think. (But it'll probably still be horrible.) But I think I may enjoy the respite. After putting forth so much effort it will be nice to let it all hang out for awhile and sleep in on Saturdays.

My WW is caught in a double life and a web of lies. She lies to me about being with him, then she lies to him about being with me. No matter which way she chooses there will be pain. I don't envy her at all. Cake eating and fence sitting come with a high price. We BSs could argue all day till your blue in the face but the fog is too thick I guess.

BP, there is alot of good stuff here, but I wanted to point out that some of these recommendations are yours and not in keeping with Marriage Builders. We need to stick closely to Marriage Builders and not muddy the waters with our own personal opinions. [nor refer her to other plans ie, 5 Languages of Love]

For example, women do not DO Plan A for 3-6 months, they do it for 3-4 WEEKS. The recommendation for men is SIX MONTHS. Women are not supposed to do long term Plan A's. Plan A is not supposed to be a way of life for conflict avoiders and enablers.

Exposure is not recommended to be done in "layers." I have never seen Dr Harley suggest this. In practice, exposing in layers has the effect of bringing a pea shooter to a gun fight because it completely diminishes the effect of exposure. It also gives the affairees a chance to pre-empt the exposure targets with spin.



I hope and pray this was written YEARS ago and that your wife's affair has ended, becuase I would be horrified to discover that you had been in plan A for all these YEARS allowing your wife to cakeeat. You have been here for TWO and a half years. If she has been in an affair that long and you have done nothing about it, then I would chalk that up to some serious enabling and that IS NOT what MB prescribes. It is meant to be a short term plan, not a way of life for conflict avoiders.

Can you clarify your comment?

I honestly don't think he's seen the thread....he rebukes me everyday about my PI and other things that I have for evidence. I think he would mention it as a way to fire at me.

He walked up to me all hostile like this afternoon and said he was going to get pants and he would be back, but I could have my PI follow if I wanted. He said, "by the way, I'm going to a counselor on Sunday, and then I'll let you know whether I will be willing to see your counselor" What does this mean. I asked him who the counselor was and he said, "Oh no, after what you did to me, I don't trust you anymore than you trust me."

Is this just another excuse to see OW? Will this counselor really direct him the right way...or tell him to leave me? I don't know what to think.

You know what, many WS on here have gone to a counselor and then made up what the counselor has said to justify what they are doing.

You need to learn how to reverse babble.

You are doing a GREAT job. Keep it up.

There is no telling what the counselor will tell him. But I can tell you that he is probably still in contact. I would start working on getting your Plan B in order, higgs.

When he comes home have a serious discussion with him. Let him know that you would be willing to give this a try under certain conditions:

1. he ends his affair with the OW, sending her a NC letter pledging no contact for life

2.opens up his life to you so you can be assured he is still not having an affair

3. commits to the recovery plan as outlined in Marriage Buildrs

Tell him you would be willing to forgive him for his adultery if would commit to those things. If not, then you want to separate because his behavior is too upsetting and emotionally traumatic for you. Ask him to move out this weekend.

He seems to be under the impression that it is ok to stay and abuse you and you will do nothing about it. If he won't move out, I would just tell him that you cannot live like this much and will be forced to take action.

He continues to insist that he has not had an affair. He claims that I was totally wrong and i blew this out of proportion. Who counsels on Sunday anyway?

Thats ok if denies it. Tell him you don't need his confession to know the truth. And since he says he has not had an affair then he shouldn't mind sending her a no contact letter as a "GOOD WILL GESTURE" to you. Will he be willing to do that?

I wouldn't let that interfere with your plan.

I don't know. I'll ask him if he would be willing to commit to that. He makes it like I'll be lucky if he decides to work with me.....like he has to think about whether he wants to make it work or not.

higgs, he needs to understand that you have boundaries and are not willing to live like this. He is not in a position to negotiate the recovery of this marriage, so it will be up to you set the standards. You can't allow yourself to be at the mercy of a wayward.

And if he wants to insist he had no affair, would be willing to clear his name with a polygraph?

He thinks this because you are allowing him to think this. He is not working with you at all, he is abusing you. And expects you to take it.

Lay out the plan to him and say you don't believe the marriage "has much hope" unless he commits to the plan. and the truth is that it has NO HOPE until he does. as long as he refuses to commit to the marriage, you will just endure more of the same abuse.

higgs, I have been where you are now. After exposure, H was emotionally abusive to me for days. He would taunt me and make mean and hurtful comments. He refused to admit to the A, and was still secretive. So I did what MelodyLane is suggesting that you do. I started telling him that he needed to make plans to move out over the weekend, and that I expected him gone by Sunday. I even suggested a friend he could stay with. I told him it hurt me to see him.

I didn't know back then, but now I know that he was still in contact with OW during that time.

When he still wouldn't admit to the A, I told him that if he wanted to stay, that I wanted him to take a polygraph. He then taunted me by saying he would pass, and he tried to get out of it by saying he refused to pay for it, and so on, excuses, excuses. I told him I would pay for it with my money, no problem. He insisted he would pass. I told him if he passed, I would apologize to him and to everyone else. But that if he didn't pass, then I would have proof he had an A. I cannot tell you the antics this man came up with to get out of it. I stood my ground though, I set it up for him, and told him the date and time he was to be there. He texted me all day for three days about this polygraph. He finally confessed everything the day before he was due to take the polygraph.

You have to be strong now, like I was. He is looking for anything and everything to throw you off track, so that you'll allow him to continue his A. Don't let him sway you. Don't pay attention to his fogbabble!

A side note - I don't know if this would be recommended for you to say to WH, but this is what I said to my H after yet another one of his mean and hurtful comments: "what you are doing to me is called emotional abuse, and you need to stop it. I will not take it anymore." This seemed to jolt him out of his fog a bit - he certainly looked very surprised, and he did stop, most of it anyway.

I think I can do it, but it will be hard and I'm scared of the outcome....I know he will not agree to any of it.

Holy crap, movingforward, it just occurred to me how very much your H is like hers!! He is doing and saying all these things to her, hoping to bully her into silence.

I spoke to her on the phone and we went over some talking points tonight. Hopefully she is having this discussion now. Thanks so much for weighing in with your experience, MF, she could really use feedback from someone like you!

He may not!! But guess what?? That is exactly what movingforward said too!

He's still not home.

He is playing a head game.

To add to this, when he insists he did not have an affair tell him you would be willing to set up a polygraph test to let him clear his name.

When he responds with something like $%$#%)$#%)$%$ I am innocent!! How can you not trust my word after 20 years??????

Look at him with pity and respond: "that is not convincing."

Oh wow....the fireworks. I got on the phone and asked him to commit to a couple of things or we would have to seperate. He then said ok, that he had already decided that after the demeaning sh*t I caused.

All of the sudden, he texted me and said, "I love you, with all that is in me! When he came in though, it was pure rage!!! I've never heard the "F" word used so many times in my life. He said that, "that's what I deserve after giving you 20 years of my life?" He compared me to his mother who told him, "I wish you were never born."

This is my fear. My husband was terribly abused as a child and I'm worried that this is going to push him to the brink. I did reassure him that I loved him, and then he called me a snake in the grass. How can he love me and think all these hateful thoughts?

He was screaming and yelling and crying all at once. I've never seen him so mad. He went crazy when he saw the suitcases.

Do not REACT to this, higgs. Keep in mind that his goal is to TERRORIZE you into silence and stop you from protecting yourself. Stick to your plan and do not allow yourself to get scared off your path.

He said that he has always apologized to me over the year even when he knew he was right because I always threw divorce in his face...this is true. He said that he would make amends with me so that we could keep our family together, but he never meant it.

This is so hard for me. He said, that why should he accept so much suffering for "thinking about having an affair" when I have made him suffer for the last 18 years.

Bully suit on in spades, I see.

Were you able to stand your ground and stay calm and loving in your words?

Have you ever seen a 16 year old throw a tantrum? Yelling, profane, stiff body stomping up and down? If you can picture his tirade in that context, you can stay calm and on point.

My little brother did that - I laughed and laughed when he did it because he was 6 feet tall - amazing to see a grown child tantrum!

Don't let him manipulate you, higgs!!

Tell him you will give him an opportunity to recover your marriage if he follows the outline and agrees to take a polygraph. That is the only way this will work. Otherwise, you will need to separate. It is his choice.

*I can't live like this anymore. I need you to go.*


*I will give you an opportunity to clear your name by taking a polygraph.*

*I would be willing to forgive you and work on this marriage if you will commit to these things........*

*otherwise, this is hopeless and it is best to separate.*

I did stay calm and I continued to reassure him that I loved him, but he had to commit to working on our marriage and stop leaving everyday. I needed him to send a letter to OW. He still hasn't agreed....just a lot of screaming. yes, it was like looking at a 6'2" giant kid. I almost laughed a couple of times because I have never seen him so angry.

I never cried or yelled; I had a hard time getting a word in edgewise. Will he ever forgive me for this? He just keeps repeating the same things over and over.

forgive you for what? Did you have an affair?

Go back and read the talking points in my last post and repeat them over and over again to him. STAND YOUR GROUND.

He's asleep in there now after his tantrum. I, however, will be up for hours in complete replay.

You are doing great!! just stand firm. And remember that the wayward does not get to negotiate the terms of your recovery. He either agrees or he is out. Your boundaries are non-negotiable.

He just wants to keep bringing up all the love busters that I have done over the years.

higgs, is he taking any drugs or drinking?

We know dis trick: divert, divert, divert, divert....

I think he is drinking; this may be where's he going after school...I don't smell it on him though.

You did so great! I hope your morning is better.

Wow, a WS who is also a blameshifter? I've never heard of a such a thing!

Ok ws woke up this morning and walked around as usual and getting ready for school. The only gesture made toward me is that he helped me make the bed and then I thanked him.

Anyway, to affirm my seriousness, I texted him my requests and told him that our marriage would never work without agreeing to these terms and I will no longer tollerate this affair or his behavior. He's not responded. He says he's sick of me repeating the same phrases.

I won't lie to you guys; I'm scared to death and afraid of losing him forever, but I also agree that I can't continue to live this way.

Yeah, I'd say to stop repeating yourself, higgs. That's a LB. You told him once, right? And the more you repeat them the less power they have.

How will I know if hecis willing to go by these guidelines? He never answered me last night.

I'd take that as a no for now, but if he hasn't out right said no, maybe he's still thinking?

MB, in order for her to get through to him she needs to be a broken record and repeat these things over and over again. Very little gets through those fogged out, thick skulls, so Steve Harley advises using key points and saying them over and over again.

Just tell him that if he doesn't agree to these things, he needs to find another place to live this weekend. Silence means NO.

Use his own words against him and say, "you said that you wanted to separate, and i now agree with you. I would like for you to move out."

You have NOTHING to be forgiven for, higgs, you are just doing everything you can to save your marriage and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Of course your WH will try and make it look like you have something to be forgiven for, that's what WW's do, it's easier for them to shift the blame to someone else rather than simply accept the blame themselves with a grain of salt.

You words: Your WH's words: Wow, what a coinki-dink, the "BOTH" of you are repeating yourselves but yet he's the only one who's b**ching about it.

Now if "that" isn't calling the kettle black I don't know what is!

As Melody said earlier, higgs, some things really do require repeating; you have questions that NEED to be answered and they need to be answered NOW! Keep at it until you get them.

Good luck!

Husband just text me and said, "I'll let you know."

TRANSLATION: I want more cake.

You need to make your plan. Do as ML has suggested. Ask him to go. Do you have your Plan B letter ready? An IM? Visitation schedule and finances figured out? You need to do this the right way. You can do this Higgs.

Those feelings you are having are completely normal. I was told on my thread that my WH was DEAD. That killed me. Also, I was told that I was losing a lying, abusive adulterer. Not such a great loss when I looked at it that way. When/if my DH returns, I will welcome him back into the fold(as long as he is willing to do the work).

There's nothing to figure out with finances.....we have everything seperate right now(his choice on that many yes ago. I'll just hVe to remind him to pay his two bills he pays each month.

The letter is ready and I have my brother ad go between.

You won't remind him any more about those bills. He is a big boy. Let OW remind him.

Will he be paying you CS?

My bad about your brother being IM, I forgot that part. I am sure he will be great too since he knows the best teacher of IMs around.

Do you have an addendum in your letter for when he will be visiting the kids? Do you have things planned out about how the exchanges will take place? Just making sure you have all of your bases covered.

I told him in the letter that he can have them every other weekend and visit on other occasions as long as he communicates to me through my brother. I'll post my letter later so others can let me know what cha think. I'm scared for numerous reasons....mostly being alone, and the hurt inside. I hate that things are going to end this way.

But you see, Plan B (if done properly) is not an end. It's a beginning. Whether your marriage survives or not, YOU will be in a much better place than you are today. Ask those whose marriages have recovered AND those whose marriages didn't, but all of which executed nearly perfect Plan Bs.

You still have a fighting chance.

It MAY be the end of your marriage, and it MAY NOT.

It definitely WON'T be the end of YOU.

You will be able to look back at this time and realize that you did everything you could. You did it the best you could.

You'll be able to look at your children and tell them that you did the best you could.

You can do this. You have done so well so far.

Plan B comes from the fact that statistically speaking nearly all affairs come to an end of their own accord. Because of that, Plan B allows the BS to remove the daily drama, pain and stress of having a ringside seat at a continuing affair and, hopefully, retain enough love for the WS to attempt recovery when the affair finally implodes on its own.

It might also actually hasten the end of the affair by forcing all ENs to be met by the affair partner rather than the BS meeting some and the affair partner meeting only one or two. Since the affair is based on fantasy as much as on feelings, this can cause the affair partners to have to actually deal with each other in a complete relationship instead of just stroking each other's egos and focusing on making each other feel good.

Look up Queenie's thread for how Plan B can go. Her marriage is not out of the woods yet, but after almost two years of no contact with her WH, he is now home and she is getting another chance at trying to repair the relationship.

The alternative to Plan B is to keep being dragged into the gutter where the affair lives and being hurt continuously by thoughtless behavior until your own Love Bank is totally depleted and you not only don't love the WS any more but actually want nothing more to do with him/her.

Affairs implode for many reasons, most of them the very things that make the affair possible and addictive in nature. Plan B let's the BS recover his/her own life, become a whole person once more and save enough to try to recover when the melt-down in fantasy-land takes place.

Affairs end...

If you aren't divorced and remarried by then, the marriage might still be recoverable.

Mark

We are ones whose M recovered after a very dark Plan B and honestly...our M is better than it's ever been. I am not saying I am THANKFUL we have been through the horror of an A but I AM thankful for what it taught us and where we are NOW. My H tells me and shows me every single day how incredibly grateful he is for me and our marriage.

I know it's scary right now higgs...but you WILL feel better in Plan B. I actually had a lot of FUN in Plan B [believe it or not!] because I knew that when we got into recovery it was going to be a biatch. And I was right.

I know, but his leaving was not my goal. I'm sure I'll make it, but I'll always wish that I had done something 5 years ago to save our marriage. I'm still in it and praying daily for God to intervene.

higgs, maybe God has INTERVENED and Plan B is the best thing for your marriage?

It's not over till it's over...you are not there yet.

Plan A your patootie off until you hand that PBL over to him. THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT, HIGGS!!!

You want the very last memories he has of you to be of your VERY BEST. I'm getting the impression that you are mopey and quiet around him...THAT IS NOT YOUR BEST IMPRESSION!!!

Part of Plan A is to show him the changes that you are willing to make in your "new marriage".

You can do this, higgs!!

I too wish I had found this site years ago. If you see, my first Dday was 2.5 years ago. I didn't know what to do. I did the best I knew how. I am happy for you that you have found it when you did.

You know, it wasn't my INTENT to have my WH move in with POSOW, but it is where he is.

I am in Plan B though, so I am safe from the drama. I don't know what he is doing day to day, minute to minute.

Now I KNOW that he is with her, where before I didn't KNOW. KNOWLEDGE IS POWER. I am POWERFUL. YOU are POWERFUL. You will be okay.

HEY YOU TOOK THE WORDS OUTTA MY MOUTH

Thanks....we'll see how tonight goes. As it is, he is still not home. The same ole same ole. At least with him gone, I won't have to worry about when he will be in. You're right about the quiet part....not sure about the mopey. I have still been keeping house clean, making dinner, and keeping myself nice looking.

Just to say we are thinking about you and wish you well, higgs.

Stay strong...this is something you CAN do!!!

Higgs,

Psalm 102:1-12(NIV) The first 11 verses are written to describe a situation in life where it seems all hope is gone. We have nowhere to turn and life hangs by a thread.

But verse 12 says:Jeremiah 29:11Isaiah 49:15&16 says:Psalm 77(The Message)Because HE has done great things, we can KNOW that He will do great things. Whatever happens, God is in control. Even the Oceans obey His command. All of nature hears His voice and responds to come to the aid of those who trust Him.

He knows the end from before the beginning. He knows every hair on your head! He knows every cell of your body! He has a PLAN for you and no matter what happens, His PLAN is to prosper and not to harm you; to give you a hope and a future.

Psalm 42 (NIV)No matter what happens, His plan for you is great!

Mark

Mark

Thanks Mark and T and C....I needed that. I know God is in the middle of this, but sometimes it seems so out of control, but I know he is here.

He's home now and working on his car. It would seem that both of his vehicles are having trouble....I hate to say this, but I've asked God to just strip him; he has no remorse.

Still nothing....kids are still awake. It's next to impossible to accomplish a conversation.

higgs, why don't you just leave him that letter and go about your business?

I've lost!!! I'm weak and I'm unable to accomplish my goals. He sat in front of me refusing to give me answers while he typed a two hour long letter to me. After writing it, he said he would send it to me after I made my next move. He saw the typed letter in my van and said as such. He can't meet my requests and said that he would move if I gave him the letter.

He said that he has given into my demands and threats over the years and he's not taking it anymore. He admitted to everything he had done up till my finding him, but never had sex although that was next for him. He says they are no longer together and his long stays away are ways for him to deal with everything.He said he would sign the contract...and repair..that's all.

I just stood there and cried, yes cried, I was so overwhelmed with emotions. I'm sorry for all ya'lls hard work and my complete failure.

I'm just going to try and make it through the day.

Plan B, Higgs...

You are not a failure, higgs! Give him the letter. He is trying to gaslight you, higgs!

Higgs, he is still in touch with OW, nothing is over. He is just taking this even more underground and he is already telling you that he needs his time alone so he can think so the time alone will continue and ....it will be time "alone" with OW.
Give him the letter and tell him to move out. You have hope there because he is at least taking the time to write you a letter and to debate with you...it means he is not 100% emotionally dead. But he is acting very very entitled.
He is setting the conditions and he has no right to do so.

If you cried...that is only human. I wish I could cry. I only started doing so a couple of months ago...but for many months I could not shed a tear.
Do not beat yourself up, you have done NOTHING. This is soooo typical of WS, they make us feel and act as if WE are the ones who have done something wrong. They deserve to be happy and we are making it hard for them. They told us they want to separate and we should understand them if they have an A while still living with us!
You see their logic...totally foggy!
You will survive this. I have.
Blessing

higgs...

About 4 days before I found out we were in a false recovery (he told me the A was over 10 months earlier; it wasn't), my H moved out because he refused to go to counseling with me.

It meant nothing, only that he was too afraid to admit the A was still on and begin the tough road of recovery.

I went into a dark Plan B as soon as I found out the A had never ended, and 6 weeks later he was home.

Please go to Plan B, higgs...you will feel so much better when you do!

I can't give you enough {hugs}. Seeing you do the things you need to do are helping me with doing the same. Nothing at this point is going to be easy and you are handling it so well!

higgs, you have my # if you want to talk! I am on my cell phone today.

Again, I appreciate all the support and help. I'm going to stay in plan a for another week. I need to do this to explore some more thoughts on my situation. He did comment on how nice I've been and wondering when the charade will end.

I have plans to move into plan b, but I need some rest. I've only been in plan a for a week and a half.....I need more time.

At least he is *noticing*, right? Wish my H would at least notice.

{hugs} When it comes to resting, take as much time as you need!

If you think you can do it and do it well w/ no LBing then go for it!

It's GREAT that he is noticing your Plan A, that means you're doing a good job!

The next time he says something about this "charade" please tell him "this is not a charade...I know I've made mistakes in the M and I want to fix them." Own YOUR part in the breakdown of the M.

higgs, it's really important that you are happy and cheerful...can you two try to do something fun together? And something fun as a family? When you go to Plan B you want his very last memories of you and your family to be happy, fun ones so that when he's sitting alone in his trailer he is missing all of you!

What can you come up with and suggest to him?

higgs, I always suggest that when in Plan A you say this to your spouse:

"Honey, things are really hard right now and this isn't fun or good for anyone...what do you say we put all of this stuff aside for a few hours and go do __________. We all need a break from this, maybe a little fun will get our minds off of this stuff for a while."

If he declines then YOU still go do (whatever) with the kids and tell him you are doing it anyhow and you hope he changes his mind and joins you. It might be good for the kids to ask him to come along as well.

Ok , talked to melody..... I sent the letter. I'm leaving for my parents house tonight. I need to get away while he's collecting his things. I'm going to change the locks on Monday.

I hope I'm doing the right thing.

I'm thinking the exact same thing for myself at this moment...

I can tell you from the outside looking in, you are definitely doing the right thing, higgs.

higgs, I believe strongly this is the best thing to do. There is nothing to be gained from another week of Plan A, and much to lose because he already has you completely worn down.

It is critical that you follow through now, especially after he has seen your letter. He needs to see that you are serious about this. What he wants is to maintain the status quo and keep BOTH of you as long as he can. He will do his best to manipulate you into protecting the status quo by trying to make you feel guilty for his affair. Don't let him do that, higgs. The worst thing you can do is allow a wayward to drive the agenda.

higgs-you are doing what is best for you and for your Marriage. You can do this. You have done so well so far. This will be the best for you.

Take care.

He just texted me the following


"you don't need to leave me a copy, I already have one. I'm sure you don't want to see or (hear) my letter, You never have, but I'm sending it anyway. You'll always do as you always have, whatever you want."

Your WH sounds very familiar to mine. Wow it's SCARY.

Still playing the game to try and make you feel guilty for defending yourself from his abuse. Show him you are not falling for it, higgs, and reply and ask him when he can be moved out. Ask him if you can help him pack.

And throw the letter away now!!

What a liar!

He has texted me again asking if I was withdrawing our children from school. Is he crazy why would I do that?

He then texted me again stating that he can't move out because he can't afford two rents and a mortgage. What now?

LISTEN TO THE EVER SO WISE ML.

Wait! But I thought he told you last night he would move out if you gave him the letter? See how he is backpeddling once you call his bluff? He can't believe you are doing this.

Just text him back and tell him you need him to move out as he promised he would last night. "Joe, as I said in my letter I cannot live like this anymore. I am asking you to move out this weekend."

Another text stating he never told me that he would move out......what a lie! He told me that right after he stated that it was community property.

Wayturds ALWAYS lie. As ML stated, he wants to keep the status quo.

He is now hoping he can do things that will make you rethink your plan. He doesn't know that you have a support system(US) who are telling you what he is going to do and say.

Stick to your guns.

I know I shouldn't chuckle at this but...HA HA HA.

See, higgs, and here you thought you might be doing this/that/and everything else wrong. Wow, you couldn't even be more off base, you are doing SOOOOOO WELL! And you think YOU are scared??? Seems to me someone else (your WH) is starting to feel the effects of that "job well done" you are doing.

Good for you, higgs, good for you.

Keep it up with the incredible work and I believe you might just make it to the top! :-)

I don't know about taking it to the top because you see he hates me and wants nothing more than to be rid of me. The only reason he has stayed in this marriage is to keep from hurting the kids and of course the all-mighty dollar.

This is just pushing him into what he really wants a little bit faster. I do feel better though....I've been tired of being the whipping post. I'm sure there will still be tons of tears, but I can deal with those as they come....they do eventually stop. i must say that I don't see how this is going to save the marriage because his hatred for me is even more intense.

You did a great job today, higgs! Just keep your distance this weekend and then go through with your plans for Monday. Don't get into any more discussions with him. If he brings it up again, just tell him you don't want to talk about it anymore and leave the room.

Plan B forces OW to meet all his needs. Thus, things will fall apart--they don't always, but your personal recovery will come first in that case.

Please keep with the plan. The vets know what they are doing; they have seen it done time and again. He doesn't hate you--he is a tantruming child whose candy you took away. Yuo KNOW it is right to take his candy away.

The way that Plan B helps to save your marriage is that it helps YOU. It helps you keep away from all of the hurt that he will continue to inflict on you day to day. Yes, it is true that he will be with her. You know what? He was with her before anyways. Now YOU know.

In an affair, the WS is getting 1-3 ENs met by the AP. That means that the BS still meets some important needs. Your WH KNOWS that OW CAN'T meet ALL of his needs. That's why he didn't leave you immediately. He may tell you it's financial or because of the kids. It is simply about him getting his needs met and making himself "happy." Now you have removed yourself from the equation. He will feel that lose and it will force OW to meet all of those needs. She will not.

And what will you be doing during this time? You will be creating a SPECTACULAR life for you and your dear children, oblivious to the goings on of the ugly affairland sewer.

You will be GREAT. You are doing all of this according to MB. You are doing a SPECTACULAR job.

Don't be so hard on yourself, higgs, your H doesn't hate YOU, he simply hates the stress that he now feels due to the actions your "standing up for yourself" are causing him (boo hoo). Of course he wants to "be rid of you;" right now, you are wearing him down with your actions and he's not enjoying a minute of it. Let's see how well he likes things when the only one around to meet ALL of his needs is this OW of his (ie: it's NOT going to happen and, once that fantasy becomes reality, he'll really be feeling it then [not to mention so will the OW]). All you are really doing is showing him that you will no longer allow him to "have his cake and eat it, too," and that is just what you need to do. Like you said, higgs, you are not a whipping post so don't let yourself be treated like one.

What he wants is merely a fantasy and everyone knows that fantasies don't truly exist. Right now, he sees things (between him and OW) as fun, exciting, new (etc) but, once that fantasty bubble pops and reality rears its ugly head, well, let's just see how much he still wants it then.

Although it may not feel like it at the moment, higgs, you are doing better then you even know. :-)

Stop listening to him. Blah blah blah...

Watch him and stay quiet.


Ok, here's what you are missing:

If he wasn't mad, then you'd be in trouble. He'd stroll away with a smile on his face.

And though it's mis-directed at you, his 'hatred' it that HE put himself in this hideous situation. WH knows what he's done is wrong. If he was so confident about his righteousness he'd not be so angry, and he'd be gone.

Stay strong. You'll need strength no matter what happens. Work on you. Are you eating? Exercising? Getting out? You should.

Please take care!

Ok, what if he is still not with other woman??? What if plan A killed that? What if he has been telling me the truth that it is over with her? In that case, I'm ruining everything. He says that they were never intimate and she was just providing him a place to stay while he thinks through his horrible marriage.

I'm just not so convinced that he is still with other woman.

He told my 9 year old son that he was leaving for the lake because "there is no future for your mother and I". He said that he had to come back on Sunday for his counseling session....and that he could not leave yet because he has no where to stay.

He told my 11 year old son that "your mother and i our not getting along right now, so I'm going to the lake."

How can I face my children....I told them that I was going to do everything possible to save this marriage and now I'm the one filing for divorce....something I said that I would never do.

You are doing it because you have to. He is fog-talking.

Tell him to get out--he is a man, he can live with OW. You are not just filing for divorce, you are protecting yourself from the alien he has become. Divorces can ALWAYS BE HALTED!

Not sure he is still with her? If he wasn't with her he would be with you! What has got you down? What on earth has happened?! You're allowing yourself to be gaslighted!!

Horrible marriage? More fogtalk. They ALL say that! It's called rewriting marital history. Stay the course!

OMG Higgs have you read my thread. These words are EXACTLY what my WH told me

Here in a nutshell. He was going to move out and live in OW's "extra bedroom." She was "just a friend." There was NOTHING going on. I was insecure and jealous and it was all in my head.

He told our DS7 that "Mommy and Daddy just can't get along anymore."

Oh Higgs I know this is hard but this is all SCRIPT. STOP LISTENING.

He is like the teacher in peanuts, "Wah wah wah wah wah."

You have an end to this pain. You will get there.

You have come SO FAR! Please stand by what you know you need to do and don't listen to him! Listening to his lies got you in this situation! {hugs}

And seeing another woman behind their mothers back, breaking their mothers heart with his lies and bringing their mother to tears frequently isn't going to hurt the children??? How about the arguing in front of the kids? No doubt that is not something they exactly enjoy having to hear.

Higgs, if he was ONLY staying in the marriage to keep from hurting the children and because of the money why would he suddenly up and leave now? Does he suddenly not care if the kids get hurt or did the money all of a sudden vanish into thin air? No, the children are still there and so is the money, right?!!

Fog-babble, fog-babble, fog-babble! Stay on track with what you are doing, you are doing more than well.

(((HUGS)))

All is quiet right now. I'm just waking up and drinking my coffee...hoping for a non-crying day. I'm not looking forward to tomorrow.....if I can just get through the end of the school year.

I'm starting to wonder if that text of "I love you with all that is in me" was meant for OW??? Her name is one letter in front of mine, so it would be easy to do that. It just doesn't make sense for him to text me that and then come in and blast me with all the yelling and cussing. I did also find out that he had been drinking that night.

hmmmm, you might be right.

What is going on this weekend? Are you set in your plans to go file on Monday like we discussed?

I'm here alone....he went to lake. I'm planning on filing on Monday; should I tell him this? Also, i desperately want my parents here with me....I'm all alone and I could really use the help. Also, my mom being here would probably help with keeping him away; he won't want to come around with them here.

Also, when I do see him, how do I behave? Right now, I want to text him and be so snide and awful. All of these emotions are running together.

That is your TAKER talking and it is COMPLETELY NORMAL.

If you need your Mom for support, I would ask her to come over. If it will help you transition into Plan B, I think it would be good. ML?

That is where you are going here right? Plan B on Monday? I may be a little LOST

You are right, Scotland!

She is going to file for divorce on Monday on grounds of adultery and try to get him out of the house. [it may take 7 to 14 days] In the meantime, she is calling her parents to come stay with her so they can protect her from his verbal abuse.

Sounds like a GREAT Plan.

Oh Higgs, you are doing so well. I don't think you know yet what an inspiration you are. You are helping others as well. Keep it up, you have a great bunch of people behind you supporting you 100%.

p.s, she doesn't want a divorce, but needs to do this in order to get legal protection. In Texas, we don't have legal separation, just divorce. She she will file, get the orders in place and draaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag it out! Except for the part where she files on grounds of adultery and they call the OW in to give sworn testimony about her adultery.

Oh, I figured as much. I know that she is taking steps to protect herself and do whatever she can to try to save her marriage. I know with you in her corner she will have to right guidance.

Thanks so much for all the support. I'm trying to spend my day cleaning up house and resting. I've had a few dark moments today, but mostly good. It's good to know that I have so many supportive friends and family.

I did finally tell his sister everything on the phone. She couldn't believe it and kept asking me if I was sure. I told her yes, positive. She is very sad and disappointed, but I don't think she will interfere as she didn't want me telling him that we talked.
I called my mom and she is coming Tuesday or Wednesday...maybe my dad too. Yes, I'm filing on Monday...lawyer said she may be able to push it in 7 days...I'm hopeful.

Ok, sorry to confuse, but I changed my name from Higgs4 to hope_eternal...it was recommended that I do this...just in case. I'm also playing around with my signature. I'll try to add more information on that later.

Made it to the afternoon.....no crying today so far. I can't help but continue to think that this is what he wants. I just think he was trying to wait until summer. He's planning on moving to the lake when school is out; that's his temporary plan anyway. I have no idea after that.

It is good to know his plan. I am going to post what pepperband posted to me on my thread. It may help you too.

hope,

The reason he falls asleep after the arguments is that he is full of anxiety and tension. Once he releases all of this at you, his system has to recharge. It is an interesting after-effect of tantruming in children - have you noticed how after little kids have tantrums or rages, they often are worn out and fall asleep?

This is actually part of a well-documented cycle, and in some crisis management training I take every year, we are taught about this stage. I recognized it instantly when you talked of your husband falling asleep after your arguments, while you (who remained calm and controlled [good job!]) managed to stay awake and go over what had happened. This tells me you handled things very well. Stay on this trajectory, no matter what he does.


I've read through the thread to catch up. I've been out of commission for a few days because of an illness.

Your WH's reaction to your letter and demands isn't a big surprise. Right now, he wants what he wants, when he wants it. Now, doesn't that sound like a little kid?

The thing is, he will soon realize that what he THINKS he wants isn't exactly the toy he thought it was. You see, it's kind of like having the perfect set of toys at home, and then you go to the store and see this gigantic cool-looking toy. You beg and beg and beg for that toy, and agree to give up all your other "stupid" toys for the new and shiny one, because you have fantasized that this new toy will be the end-all-be-all of toys. You decide you are going to donate all of your toys to the Goodwill, and cast them off so someone else can have them, because - after all - you now have yourself in position for the perfect toy.

You get your hands on that new toy. Your stupid olds ones are gone, and you get this new toy home and rip open that package - OH YEAH. And you play with it for awhile. At first it is the most exciting toy! Only, you thought it would do some things that it really doesn't do. It isn't quite like the advertisement claimed. And it doesn't work the same as you thought it would either. It doesn't fit quite right here, and doesn't feel quite right there, and it broke right away in that one spot.

And you do miss a couple of toys you used to have. Especially that one special toy. The one you did want to keep, and you were not sure of giving away - but sacrificed anyway. That special toy you played with every day, but maybe didn't really appreciate until you didn't have it.

At first you say, "But I have this newer model, and it IS cooler." Only that line doesn't even fool YOU. Sooner or later, you start wondering if that Goodwill store sold that other toy or not.

And if you could get it back, if you were fast enough........




See Hope, it's the allure of the new and different, and he's caught up in that. He's made his life with you into something he thinks he can walk away from easily.

He has so much to learn. He will learn it the easy way, or the hard way.

But he will learn it.

The question is this: Will he learn it while you are still willing to work it out, or will your love for him have died long before then?

MB gives HIM the chance to learn fast - and YOU the chance to empower yourself so that if he doesn't, YOU can survive the affair

with
or
without

the wayward spouse.


Schoolbus

wow...schoolbus, that was great!!!! I totally get it; it's just so hard to get the focus off myself. These are things I think about...

I'll never find anyone new...
Who's going to want a woman with 4 kids and a std?
There will be no one around to share the birth and memories of 20 years with our kids?
Who will I talk to?
I miss him being here.
How will I be able to raise them on my own?
How will I ever pray again?
When will I have the "will" to go through a day without thinking about him?
When will I eat again?
What if my children would rather be with him than me?
What if my children turn to drugs or alcohol because of this divorce or issue?
When will I stop crying?
When will I stop worrying?
How will I ever forgive myself for not seeing the signs before it was too late?

I realize all this is a pity-party...but like the song says, "It's my party and I'll cry if I want to; you would cry too if it happened to you." I hate the in between and the wondering when it will all end.