I've been posting on here for a while under a different name. It was necessary to change my name and thread after WH discovered this site. Hopefully some of you can figure out which thread it is....? I don't know how to link them.

Working on my Plan B letter, I will post it as soon as I have it done. But yuck, now I feel like maybe he's EXPECTING it......like he knows that this is coming.......

Putting this here just to save it...thanks Neak.


[quote]My Dear Husband,

Everything I have said to you about how much I love you, and the hope I have for the restoration of our family has been true. Even with the revelations I have received, I still love you with all my heart and want for us to have a chance to repair our relationship. You have been able to see the changes I have already made in an effort to make our family stronger, and no matter what happens I have become a better person for it. Though I am not perfect (yet), I have made many improvements in the way I run the household, make time alone with you a priority, and you know very well about my new lack of inhibitions in expressing my love for you. You can help me, and together we can build a new and better marriage that will be a solid foundation for our children, and a source of joy for the two of us. We owe it to our family to try.

I told you from the beginning that I would not pressure you into a timeline to make your decision between ***** and me, and I am not doing that now. You may not realize what I have endured because of your decision to continue your relationship with *****. Yes, I know that the difficult situation we are in now is just a symptom of the problems that already existed in our marriage, and that we both carry a share of the blame for that. Still, nothing is so wrong that it cannot be fixed if we both work together.

It has become too painful for me to continue to see or talk to you while you continue your relationship with *****. I love you so much, but that love is being terribly damaged by the pain of knowing you are with someone else. Thus I am separating from you in order to protect myself from further pain until you are ready to commit to rebuilding our family, free from your entanglements with another woman. Again, this is not about assigning blame, or me rejecting you. I am still willing and eager to be your wife, but only when you can be exclusively my husband.

Until you decide to recommit to our marriage and family, please do not communicate directly with me. You may see and talk to the children as much as you like—email T*** at my email address to set this up (she uses it more than I do anyway), or make arrangements through your mom. J*** can be our mutual contact for anything regarding the business.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this way, but please remember at every moment that I would much rather rebuild our marriage. The children and I are the ones who can help you learn to be truly happy for the rest of your life. We are a permanent part of you, and we have so many good memories to carry us through the hard times ahead. I look forward to the time when we can reach out and meet each other’s needs, when you decide to recommit to our marriage. The door to my heart is open to you whenever you are ready to come back. The path is simple: end all contact with ***** for the rest of our lives, (I will help you write the letter and send it), and then we can talk about what it will take to shape a secure future for our family, one in which we will never need to separate like this again.

I want to be your best friend again, always there when you need me. I want you to be there for me, too, and I eagerly wait for the day when that hope can become a reality.

I love you dearly,
Notso
[quote]

It's better if it's a total surprise (read: shock), but it still works regardless.

By working, I mean you will be protected and heal no matter what, and chances are better than even that WH will choose to join you at some point.

Hi New Petals,

My WH figured out who I was here and I changed my screen name, which is what is seen, and my sign-in name remained the same.

I am not an expert on plan B letters, but it looks long. WS's don't have a long attention span, especially from their spouses.

I would suggest reviewing it and decide the main points you want to make, make the directly and clear and leave it at that.

Best,

ba

I used the Plan B letter from SAA. I just changed it a bit from the book. Here it is.


I added a line for POSOW when I sent it to her email as well.


Not the best one liner to a POSOW. I couldn't think of anything other than "I hate you and I hope you have bad things happen to you. You are a WF and you SUCK." Okay, a little more profane than that, but it would have been censored.

Actually, Scotty, that was just about perfect. "I am patient and I will wait."

You can bet she still has that echoing around in her mind in her quiet moments of self-doubt. As time goes on, that will be more and more often.

I was always worried that it wasn't good enough. Like I said, I was just making sure that it wasn't what I really wanted to say to her, because it would have served me no purpose.

I'd go with ominous and lurking over obscene and trite any day.

I just thought of both options as HONEST. I honestly DO know what to do to make WH happy now. I AM patient. I also TOTALLY feel those feelings towards her. Heck, most times I feel them towards WH as well.

Well everyone, plan B has come sooner than expected. OW H told his wife tonight I sent him that email from POSOW to WH and of course she contacted WH. He is on his way out the door as I type. He is, get this, furious at me for wrecking HER life and "ruining his relationship with OW." I'd puke if I wasn't so close to crying. He us going to his mom's for a few days. OW is so manipulative she is honestly acting like I wrecked her life, instead of the affair and her lies. And WH is falling for it, hook, line, and sinker.

I feel so hopeless right now, like our last chance has just been severed.

What do I do? Still email him a plan b letter? Wait a few days? Give up on our marriage? He says he has had enough of my psycho behaviour and wants me out of his life...the psycho-ness being snooping and exposing to OW H proof the affair was continuing.

Let him leave and work up a Plan B letter.

And go very dark.

Go a couple pages back and look at the two or three topics on wayward speak. They ALL react this way, so feel comforted.

And then don't let him back in the house if you can help it. (Unless he agrees to your terms and conditions for returning and such)

Exactly what KR said.

The answer to your questions is another one from me. What do YOU want to do? Remember, just because your WH said that he is DONE, are YOU done? If not, then work the MB concepts and plans and do what is suggested. Plan B? Yes.

Let me ask you P&H(sorry but it is easier for me to remember you that way), do you think I should stop and give up? I am in Plan B, my WH moved out and IN with WF on my birthday. He introduced our children to POSOW on CHRISTMAS DAY. I am still working MY plan. MY PLAN is to TRY to recover my marriage. The bonus is that even if I don't recover my marriage, I WILL recover ME. I am a much BETTER person for finding this site and applying the concepts in my life. Just work the plans and see where it leads. YOU WILL BE FINE.

This is good, hon. Honestly his being angry at you about exposure means there is still HOPE for your marriage. Get you plan B letter ready, make sure it goes through some board members for editing, get your IM in place and go D A R K.

This is typical WS stuff. Your marriage can survive his anger.

Thank you everyone. I wrote that last night when it was seriously like the darkest hour (sorry to be so dramatic). I know it's stuff all WS says and even after I wrote that post I lay there thinking about it. Went to try to talk to him and he was texting OW with red eyes. I asked him if everything was ok and he said not really, just to go to bed. I THINK maybe she ended things with him? Her husband told me today that they agreed to work on their marriage.

So, WH is leaving this morning....not really leaving, just taking DD to visit his mom for today and tomorrow. I don't really feel like talking to him while he's away - maybe we just both need a couple days to calm down. If he starts moving out when he gets back then I will have my Plan B letter ready and give it to him. Heck, maybe I should write it anyway as conditions to stay in our house and NOT have to leave....

Scotland, THANK YOU for your response. No, you should not give up! You are so strong for doing what you have and I am sure you are well on your way to personal recovery as well!! It's people like you on this forum that keep me going when I feel like I can't. And btw - my birthday is one day before yours. I found out from emails that WH was shacked up in a hotel with OW on my bday...

I hope hope hope so!!!!!!!!!!! I've already ridden out so many anger waves with him after snooping and exposing that I know I can ride this one out with him too...

WH said this morning that I'm like a rabid dog and he never knows when I'll bite. While it's not the most flattering likeness, I'm kind of glad.....maybe he'll get how hard I'm willing to fight for our marriage...

You rabid dog you...go girl!

Wait a few days to a week before going into Plan B. Let the dust settle a bit from this first.

Now that he's out of the house, he DOES NOT COME BACK until he agrees to your terms. That might be the first thing you work on, today (now) if possible, then start your PBL later today or tomorrow.

Get your game face on, and if he calls be ready to say, "I believe in us. I believe in our M. We can be happy and in love with each other again."

This A has been dealt a devastating blow, but even if they have broken up for now it isn't over yet. Just brace yourself for it to last indefinitely, and be ready in case it ends very soon.

Excellent job!

You can do this. Do what Neak said.

Just focus on your Plan A. You need to PLan A right up to the last second before Plan B. That way your WHs last memories of you is of your SPECTACULAR PLAN A.

You can do this.

Yes, anger from him is a good sign, it means there is still something in him and his feelings are not totally dead...he is not a zombie.
My WH had no reaction to my exposure, not a pip or a sound. He is dead inside and of course has no interest in saving the M.
good sign for you!
blessing

Another agreement here that he acted as he was supposed to act to the exposure.

Waywards get hissing, spitting made and say evil, awful threats and stomp off like babies having not had their way. It is THE reaction always mentioned on MB. The man is following the wayward 'script' so far. That is good. Means the MB plans may work.

You could just plan A for a while and have the juncture you choose to go to B.

His reaction isn't something TO react TO, yk?

To get you started on your boundary list, here is a link to page 5 of my story, where Boundary List #1 is contrasted with Boundary List #2, in about the 7th post down.
Boundary Lists

Ok, so have decided to go Plan A for a few more days until the dust settles, and by that time hopefully I will be able to see farther than a foot in front of me, WH will have a place, and we can move forward in Plan B.

QUESTION:

WH bought tickets a while ago to go see a magic show with OW on Sunday. He says he wasn't even sure they were still going, because they had agreed not to see each other, but after the huge blowup yesterday they for sure are not. He has now offered the ticket to me.

Now, I have SO many conflicting emotions on this it's not even funny. a) wtf?? He has NEVER planned anything like that with me, ever! b) How weird is that, to go on a date with WH that he was supposed to go on with OW? Kind of turns my stomach. And lastly, c) Even though it makes me sick, I kind of want to go, to "reclaim" my territory and replace memories, so to speak.

What should I do??????????

I would go, no question about it.

There will come a time when you won't accept the OW's leavings. For now, he asked you, and you have a chance to go and make some great Plan A love deposits.

Show him how glad he is he took you, and not her!

To clarify, there will come a time where, if you decide to keep him, he won't just be "OW leavings" like he is now.

I also would go. I was screaming in my head while I was reading, "GO GO GO." No expectations though. He is NOT your DH right now, he is your WH. It will most likely be awkward and he may even anger you. Just be prepared to put on that happy PLAN A face and have a good time. Maybe you can make yourself a bet on how awfully awkward it will be and if you win you do something GREAT for yourself. If you lose you do something SPECTACULAR for yourself.

Absolutely go! Great plan A moment.

LOL!! I love this idea, Scotland! The best part is that I'll lose either way and deserve that treat! It's DEFINITELY going to be awkward though. How could it not be?

Crazy story if you believe in these kinds of things. Our fantastic cleaning lady is also a Reiki healer and she has psychic powers. She said the first time she met WH, she knew his intent to be unfaithful by the second or third time she shook his hand. And, because WH has nothing he keeps sacred in our marrige, INCLUDING OUR HOUSE, he recommended this lady to OW as well. OW told our cleaner all about her divorce the first time they met and when she hugged her at the end, our cleaner said just at the contact, she KNEW WH was in the middle of the marriage, but she didn't want to believe it. She told me all kinds of things, including the fact that one of her other workers went ballistic while I was away bc WH asked him to make sure his wedding ring was in the right spot, and her worker said there was only one reason a man doesn't wear his wedding ring while his wife is away. True enough.

I told her about the A because D-Day #1 was a day she was supposed to come, and I cancelled. She didn't say so at the time, but just today she told me all about how she had known, and how WH's behaviour while I was away just confirmed it. She said she also had sensed another energy in our house, including our bedroom, while I was away and she didn't know what to do - tell me or not.

Anyway, she's coming to do a reading for me tonight. I have sooooo many questions for her.

I'm not sure how to say this tactfully, but I would advise NOT consulting with psychics and others like them.


I'm sure this lady is a lovely person, and I know God loves her very much. However, I would urge you to look to God and His word for guidance, and not the feelings and impressions of a psychic.

Edited to add "not" in a very crucial place.

I wondered if you'd be able to resist saying something. Apparently you couldn't. Not that that's a BAD thing! I think, though, you meant to say you advise against consulting with psychics, not that you "advise" it. If that's not what you meant, you weren't listening very carefully to me all those years of your childhood.

tl

DOH!!! *slaps forehead*

I'll go right back and fix that.

Don't worry. Even though you had that minor HUMAN mistake in there, I still knew what you meant and I am sure others did as well.

Lol! I know, I know! It sounds insane. And being a good catholic girl, I have never dabbled in ouiji boards or tarot or anything like that. Goes to show you how desperate I am now. I just want to hear what she can tell me and see what she says about the future....

And yes, I am sure God loves her. He loves everyone, including cheating adulterers, sadly.

I miss WH. Making myself NOT call or text him tonight.

Oh my. I remember feeling that way too. I used to tell my friends that if they said, "In 2 years, WH would come home and you will have a MARVELOUS marriage," then I could do it. I could get through it knowing the outcome. Guess what? I still don't know the outcome and I feel better than I have in almost 2.5 years. Plan B isn't easy but the rewards are GREAT. The moments in between the bad ones seem to get further apart and seem better. The bad moments seem to not affect me as badly.

No crystal ball. There is this though, DrH has done this for a REALLY long time(longer than I have been alive). He says that he has seen certain things and I BELIEVE him. I am doing my best to follow the MB concepts he has set out, as closely as I possibly can. That is because I have FAITH in what he says. I KNOW that this will lead me to where I am supposed to head. Why else would it speak to me so well?

You'll get past this speedbump. Just remember to ACT not REACT. You do things that go along with YOUR plan and not worry about what he is doing.

Not to clog up Ark's thread I thought I would address this here.


They think that this is what is best for you. They see that you are in pain and think that if you just move on that you will feel better. They mean well.

That being said, you need to do what YOU need to do. I found that at first everyone told me I should just kick him out. Heck, people still are trying to get me to get interested in dating. I just reiterate that I am still MARRIED. Their eyes BUG out. I look at them and say, "well, I AM. My Husband may be off living in fantasy world, but I am married." They of course also say things like, "I wouldn't think about taking my husband back if he did that to me." How many of us said that EXACT same thing? Before I had children, I would have most likely just moved on. After, I felt like I had a greater LIFELONG connection that will always be there.

When I read on these forums that it IS possible, I decided, "What do I have to lose?" I mean really? It's not like I would be dating again any time soon(I actually don't see me EVER dating again). What would happen? I would become a personally recovered person who would then KNOW how to be in a GREAT Marriage. That didn't sound to shabby to me.

Had an interesting time with the reading last night. She did some numerology and said WH and I are not only the same number but the highest number (22), indicating a high level of soul connection - as in, we are soulmates. Then we did a tarot reading and the cards showed that the only thing stopping our growth is him (no surprise). It can change but it's up to him right now. Obviously.

I'd never done anything like that before so it was interesting. Hard to know what to feel.

With WH at his mom's right now I am having mixed feelings. I miss him and at the same time it's nice to be away from the drama for awhile. I didn't contact him once he left yesterday, around 6 pm. He finally txt'd me at midnight to say he was there safe and thank you for packing his stuff so nicely (what can I say, wanted to leave him a great memory!). I didn't answer - partially bc I didn't want to ask if he'd just arrived, and who he was with the other 4 hrs after he left, and partially bc I didn't want to. Sent a txt back this morn just saying "good. And ur
welcome." I don't think I should contact him again.

The reason Christians are not to consult psychics or dabble in such things is because when we are vulnerable, there is a chance of evil breaking through our defenses.

Please think about this before consenting to anymore "readings".

The reason Christians are not to consult mediums or psychics is because God says we shouldn't do it.


Mark

All debates about mediums aside.... I feel so lost and need direction.

Had a call from OW H this morning and from chatting we concluded our WS met up last night, prob on my husband's way out of town. Went to my mom's all day to distract myself from missing WH and I was ok until about 6 pm when I left for home. All of a sudden felt this crushing sadness, like part of me was missing, like a big hole in my life. I have never felt so bleak. Can't believe how much I miss WH. This is awful. And he's not even really gone yet!!!!

Oh but he is gone. Right now you miss your DEAR husband. The man who you live with is your wayward husband. Your dear husband would not lie to you and was a good man. Your WH is a stranger that you don't know. You need to mourn your DH as right now, he is not there anymore.

{{{{{NP}}}}} It's natural to feel very sad at losing his physical presence.

Try to keep in mind that you've been like an old lady whose beloved pug Mitzi died, so she had it stuffed. Months later, suppose someone broke in and stole Mitzi, and the old woman was heartbroken.

Really, she had lost her pug months before, but didn't fully feel the loss till the shell was no longer around to fill the void.

The person you miss left a long time ago. Unlike the mythical Mitzi, he stands a good chance of coming back. For Mitzi, there is no "back".

Very well put Neak. I like it when others write what I wanted to say in a more eloquent way. I suck. Tehehehehe

Comparing a WH to a stuffed pug makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

I also am a fan of the stuffed pug analogy. I always forget that my WH is a WH and not the wonderful man I met and married....well hey, actually not even married, because he was already a WH in disguise, emotionally at least, by the time of our wedding!

Anyway, after many many tears and lots of thinking, I`ve come to a decision. WH is going out of his way to be mean to me now. Like he`s constantly rubbing this affair in my face. Even yesterday he was talking about how he was texting OW, and he`s told me flat out that once we separate, his life has nothing more to do with me and he will be with OW. He no longer feels or cares what he`s doing to me. There were bursts before, when he seemed to see through the fog for a second, but lately it`s just been plain cruelty - like he delights in telling me what his plans for the future are and how he`s so happy to be getting away from me. I have had several people tell me now how his actions are just despicable and cruel.

So my decision is this......he has one week to pull himself together and realize all the consequences of his actions. He`s throwing away his family and his home and everything for OW. After the one week, if he`s intent on going forward with the separation and dating OW, I will ask for a divorce.

I know, I know.....Plan B! But after all the nastiness and meanness coming out of him now,and thinking about our whole relationship, I don`t think I WANT to Plan B. I hate the way this is ending but I can`t sit back and have WH off dating OW while I try to keep hope that he`s coming back. I don`t think I even WANT to hope, not for the man he is right now!

I will say it again though.....AFFAIRS SUCK.

Gee - he's reverted to a teenager!

That's the kind of crap a 15 year old dishes out.

Treat it as such.

Beneath your attention.

Honestly, even if you go to Plan B with no thought of recovery, it will still protect you from needless hurt. You just simply send him a short note that says, "Due to the terrible hurt your adultery continues to cause me, I will not have direct communication with you until the A ends. Please send all information regarding D proceedings to my attorney."

Having said that, your reaction indicates you are over-ripe for PB. The idea is to go into PB while you still have a little love left, and PB preserves that love.

It still doesn't mean this is hopeless, however I recommend you take quick action no matter what he decides. It sounds like a week is too long, and you should go dark asap.

Whatever you do, take a little time to think about it and don't just react to his nonsense. Also avoid him as much as possible while your $LB is still so far in the red.

You'll be fine no matter what you decide.

Sadly, I do have a little love left, and that's what makes this so hard. I DON'T want the man he is now. I don't know if he will ever be able to regain the ground he has lost through this whole affair. But I do still love him for the man he used to be.

We went to that magic show tonight, the one he was supposed to go to with OW. I was brutally uncomfortable but strangely he didn't even seem bothered by the fact that I was there instead of OW. For me it was one of the most awkward times I've EVER spent with him.....the show was amazing and all I could think was, "I wonder if he wishes he was here with OW instead..." and then I wondered if he was just going to go home and text her all about it......URRGH! My mind is in overdrive these days.

Neak, I think you're right. Plan B does have to start asap, even if it is going to be a D. I'm avoiding him like crazy, don't want any more stupid arguments or meanness, that'll just hurt me more right now. So he's upstairs doing whatever on his computer and I am tucked away in the kitchen with my laptop.

HUGS!!!!

I know it's hard, you wonder all the time if WH is thinking about OW.... try not to, though. You'll go crazy if you do...

It is hard when you know you still have some love left for the man he was, not the alien he is now. But be strong. I'd definitely say get going to plan B... for you sake as well as your baby's.

Hugs again!

P&H/NP-You need to show the best YOU you can be,right up until the last moment and then you drop the axe, cut off his "cake" supply. I know it is hard. You can remove yourself from him FOR SURE. Just don't wait too long. When are you going to do this? Do you have everything ready? Your IM? Your Letter? Finances? Are you ready for this?

Also, PB isn't about you sitting around twiddling your thumbs waiting to see if he comes back.

It's about you living a wonderful life with your kids, and then giving it some consideration down the road when he wants to join you.

Personally, I'd like to see you in PB within 36-72 hours. I'll bet that even as tired as you are, you can Plan A that much longer. I think it's easier with a concrete goal, and a short one at that.

What do you think?

Hon, plan B will protect your kids too. They already have a crazed, alien for a father they do not need a broken woman for a mother. Get you plan together asap. (((NP)))

I have an IM, lawyer, and finances sorted out. No letter yet. That is something I still need to work on. :S

I am feeling better and stronger this morning. Know I can handle being in Plan B.

I do plan on giving it another week. Just to finish getting my stuff together. And then I will move forward. I am so tired but I KNOW I have the strength to Plan A until then.

OK, then this last week of plan A needs to be STELLAR! That means no LB's, DJ's or AO's no matter how much he pushes your buttons. Take a walk if you feel the need to respond to his wayward rantings or stupidity. Otherwise just tell yourself you are dealing with a spoiled teenage B O Y.

hahahh That's a HUGE part of why I'm giving it another week! My Plan A so far has been shaky at best. So for the next week, I plan on zipping my mouth, walking away when he's acting like a angst-filled teenager, and not asking questions or pushing the whole affair issue (why do I need to, when from talking to OW H we're pretty certain they're continuing with it anyway?).

Last night I told him (LAST conversation about it, I promise!) that I thought he should just go and be happy. He started heaving big sighs and saying, "I don't know what that IS yet!" Oh well. I guess even if he doesn't know he sure has a plan in mind!

I feel like I'm in a good place right now. I honestly am at a place where I don't care if he wants to go be with OW, because I feel strong enough to handle it, and I KNOW I will be fine with our children. It's his mistake.

Called up WH just now and asked him if he would like to go for a theatre experience that was actually planned FOR US, not for him and OW. He seemed very receptive so I guess we'll go on Friday. And we will have a great time.

This is all part of my having a last week of stellar Plan A. Things I should have focused on before.....

Be sure to look and smell pretty.

I'm going shopping for a new dress. ;)It's hard to find things you look good in pregnant, but hey.... no harm trying!

I think pregnant women are beautiful. Just let your glow show to the world. Be confident, happy, no R talk at all!

Strangely (I say that because of his A), WH has told me many times how attractive he finds me pregnant, and how wonderful I look. I just have to find something I think I look good in!

And yes, I have no expectations of this evening other than a nice night out! I plan to literally pour on the niceness and happiness.

And don't be disappointed if he doesn't respond to your efforts. You are planting seeds and you can't see seeds after they're in the ground, only when they begin to sprout. Okay? You may not even get to see the sprouts because you'll be in Plan B by that time. To carry this dumb analogy even further... you're not interested in sprouts anyways, you want the full-grown deal.

I think it's a great analogy, PM! And yes, chances are high I won't get to see those sprouts. BUT, I think I can plant the seeds. And I think WH is still just confused enough that they will begin to grow. Especially once he's off with OW and she's the one complaining about his sloppy habits!

By the time I see him again, I hope they will be full grown plants. With flowers and new buds.

There. Day 1 of the last Plan A week completed. Was very nice, didn't bring up the A at all, went out of my way to create some nice family time when I got home from work, and made sure there was hot tea and a fire going when he got home this evening after taking the dog out in a rain/snow fall. Even had SF!

Feel kind of proud of myself, and also a little sad, thinking how this could be our last nice week together ever. Not looking forward to Plan B, I have to say. It'll be really lonely when he's gone.

Thumbs up for a job well done.

Yes....except that I ruined it this morning by asking him why he was being so snarly with me, and it turned into a 45 minute discussion.

He says he feels a clenching in his stomach whenever I approach him because he thinks I'm going to start an argument. He also said that he hopes life gives him love and family, and he doesn't WANT that with me - not that he can't see it happening, but he doesn't want it. And he thinks that I deserve to know absolutely nothing about his life or what he does with his time anymore because the last time he opened up to me I sent emails to OW H (which is true, but honestly I contacted him BEFORE WH decided he was going to be open and honest with me).

Does this still sound like fog talk or someone who is just done?

Oh NP, they are ALL "just done." Of course they are going to say those things. Wasn't he planning on moving YESTERDAY? It is more important to follow actions rather than words. If he was truly DONE, he would be GONE. What he did to you was tell you that he is NOT going to tell you when he is with OW anymore because OW is getting mad that you are calling her BH and she is yelling at your WH about it. She is probably saying things like, "Why did you have to tell your wife? Now she called my BH and he is giving me grief. I feel like a prisoner in my own home. I am being watched and I don't like it. Fix it."

You need to learn how to reverse babble and babble back to him. Just stick to your plan. Write that Plan B letter yet? Get it posted so you can get some help with it.

If I had a dollar for every time AJ told me mid-A that he was done, I'd be a rich woman. Totally standard.

And him not *wanting* love and family with you? Just another tired variation on the old theme ILYBINILWY.

Hee hee, Scotty's fly-on-the-wall translation is word for word what is going on.

My suggestion? Don't ask him why he's being snarky. Just smile and know that he will be. Reverse babble is always fun.

WH: I feel a clenching in my stomach whenever you come near.
NP: Oh honey, I do too! Well, maybe not in my stomach.

WH: You don't deserve to know anything about my life.
NP: (smile and wink) Someday it'll be our life again. In the meantime, would you like a glass of juice?

WH: You tell OWH everything I told you.
NP: We both want to save our M's, and we'll be able to as soon as there are only two people in each R. Cupcake?

Thanks. I suck at reverse fogbabble, haha! These things never come to my mind when I'm actually IN the conversation, just after!

I am writing my Plan B letter TODAY. Will have it posted by the end of the day.

Just try to get some pocket responses then. I used "I believe in a marriage with only 2 people," or "I can not accpet a marriage where you have a girlfriend," A LOT. It works with a lot of different things and really throws them off. I think another reason why your WH gets a "clenching" feeling in his stomach is because he KNOWS he is wrong. He believes that you SHOULD be yelling and screaming at him. You SHOULD be angry. You are confusing him when you are calm. That is why you need to be calm. You need to confuse him.

Even SF?????

R U kidding???

You're pregnant, "due any time" as of May 31st (37 weeks) and you're exposing yourself and your soon to be born baby to potential STD's including HPV and HIV because your WH isn't in a monogamous relationship with you.

This isn't Plan A. It's Plan Crazy.

You don't know that MOW and her BH are monogamous with each other currently. You don't know that MOW is monogamous with your husband.

At the very least, you can expect that you had two other sexual partners with you when you SF'd with your WH. The MOW and her BH were there too!

Please, understand how serious the potential threat to your unborn baby is. Your WH could care less. But you are that baby's mother. Protect your child!

Tell your care providers your situation and get retested for std's at your next appt. Even if you used a condom, you aren't safe against HPV. If you've caught a strain of HPV from WH/MOW and give birth vaginally, you expose your baby directly to the HPV.

I would be more concerned about Herpes than HPV. Please do get yourself STD testing and INSIST on HIV and herpes testing as well the standard std's.

Good job on plan A. I am sure if felt good to be wanted by your WH, so I am not going to jump on you about the SF. Just please do protect your unborn baby.

I got tested twice, once before I knew about the affair and once after. And came up clean both times. So, I think the STD part is okay. After all he'd been sleeping with her for months.......

It DID feel good to be wanted by him. Missed the cuddling and kissing and "I love you" that used to be there after though......

Been lurking on your thread, and I know you're going through a really rough time. I can't imagine trying to handle infidelity while pregnant, but you need some major


So you got tested a while back and came up clean. How on EARTH can you know that POSOW ain't screwin' around on your WH behind his back. You just invited anyone else that may be messing with her right into your unborn child... so that you could 'feel good and be wanted'.

I know that SF is important, and you are plan Aing but there are ways to meet SF WITHOUT putting you and your CHILD at risk. You know what, you may be luck and wind up with nothing, but do you really want to take that risk? Might as well go down a keg and get behind the wheel - you have a chance you may get home safe and no one will get hurt.


You're willing to take THESE risks on the off chance skany-hola ain't banging another man?

I may be coming off a bit harsh - I support you I really do but all I can think about is the poor innocent life in your belly.

Wow. Well, I didn't say it was SMART to have SF. And yes, I probably do deserve those 2x4s. I can't help wanting to have SF, it's like it's the last thread of hope to win him back. BUT I know it's not smart.

I don't think POSOW is screwing around with anyone else though. They seemed to have professed their undying love for each other quite strongly.

But you're right, who knows. She IS a POS after all....

Start having him wear condoms. And if you want SF, well...there are ways around that.

My pregnancy hormones are all over the place too. I'm due the same week as you are.

I don't mean to get on your case. My care providers are part of a uni/medical school, so the demographic that gets treated is naturally the more difficult cases. I've heard some of their stories and it's sad and frightening.

And the poster that mentioned herpes is correct. A newborn can be born perfectly fine and be dead within hours from herpes exposure. :*(

Just be absolutely careful. Don't risk your baby. Your WH isn't worth that. You'd never forgive yourself if something bad happened to your child and all this MB work would be for nothing. You'd hate WH and hate yourself and the M would be irreparably damaged. kwim?

Jewel, you are absolutely right! I have a dr's appt on Thurs and I will be sure to bring up these concerns. And.....no more SF. At least not THAT.

And...thanks for the compliment about being sexy pregnant mama! lol My WH always tells me how attractive he finds me when I'm pregnant....AND, you're right!! I feel much better after thinking he doesn't love her enough to not SF with me! (Even though that might not have been your point haha).

Went to my IC appointment tonight. Left feeling pumped and excited about the future, whatever it holds. When I got home I was in a great mood and WH was in a crappy one. After a few minutes of talking to me his energy levels raised and he said my mood was contagious. Have to remember to keep this up!

Petals - I'm sorry I went off yesterday, I kept thinking about it last night and think I was out of line. I think you're doing a great job!

Please take care of yourself and your child - your WH will do NOTHING to protect that child and you're all the lil bean has.

Keep being that Sexy Mamma, keep that contagious good mood. Give him something SPECTACULAR to remember when you go plan B. You CAN do this.

Rock on! You're gonna go dark with a bang.

It's ok, Vibrissa! I admit I felt bad when I first read your post....but then I realized I probably deserved every word! I could never forgive myself or WH if anything happened to this child!!

Kept up the good mood this morning - I felt a bit sad when I woke up so I got out of bed, put on the happiest music I could think of (Beach Boys), and danced around with my 2 yr old until I felt happy again. Was very careful not to press WH for any details when he said he had plans for tomorrow evening with a "friend." ...it's easy enough to find out if it's OW or not! Gave him a big hug when I left and thanked him for sweeping the snow off my car (because yes, it's May and snowing here, disgustingly....)

I REALLY want to do a good Plan A now! And I think I'm finally doing it right!

Yes that was absolutely right!

He's likely to be even more up and down, because the better your Plan A the more conflicted he feels. The more conflicted he feels, the more anger erupts.

So if he does get angry, smile and dance around inside saying, "Oh yeah this is WORKING!!!" And if he doesn't get angry, smile and dance around inside enjoying every minute. It's still working.

Neak's right! Congrats on a great Plan A! I woke up feeling a bit sad this morning too. Maybe I can learn from your mood. Here's to hoping a little rubs off on me. lol

Just texted WH to see if he had made any plans for Mother's Day. He texted back "When is it?" and hasn't replied since I told him it's Sunday.

Is it wrong of me to feel sad he didn't even care enough about the mother of his children to remember Mother's Day? I know even POSOW is being taken out by her husband that day.....

I feel, ya.

When I asked BH yesterday if we should send our mothers flowers or something for Mother's Day he said, "I haven't given it much thought." Which makes me think he probably hasn't given me much thought either...

WAYTURDS are too busy thinking about THEMSELVES. Did you see when I moved into Plan B? Hint it was my BIRTHDAY. WH came home a little early from work. He hadn't called me, sent me an ecard, NOTHING. WHY? Because I am not POSOW. Your DH would care. Your WH DOES NOT.

Yup.

Expect nothing good, and you won't be disappointed. WS's just aren't capable of spontaneous good stuff. When they do something kind, look outside for a blue moon.

So, WH is out for a walk with the dog. Was getting DD ready for bed and she was playing on his computer, so i went to get her off. Found divorce documents (from a website about "Divorce from the comfort of your home" ) on his computer. Also from the History on the comp (couldn't help looking) I think that he's probably still communicating with OW and I suspect she sent him the link to the website.....because it wasn't in his search history.....

I am so sad. I admit I was holding out hope.

Do I ask him about it? Or just keep my mouth shut and keep going with plan A?

He's going out tomorrow night and I'm alomst 100% sure he's meeting up with OW. I don't want to push the issue.

But do I even mention I saw the divorce stuff?

oh good gravy...... {{{{{{{{{NP}}}}}}}}}}}}


I think don't say a word... but I'd go with a vet's thoughts on it more than mine.

I brought it up because we happened to be looking at paint colours online. And the tab was still open on his internet.

But all I said was, "What's this?" and he said he'd just been reading about separation. I wanted to talk more about it but I made myself shut up.

I was doing really well today. Totally focussing on being in a happy mood. I'm just so tired of having my husband not love me anymore.

Glad you shut up, cuz I was gonna tell you no don't say anything. (You don't want him being extra cautious about his computer - harder to snoop that way.)

Our helpful OW even printed out all the necessary forms for AJ, trying to graciously assist him along.

Truly, even if he files it means nothing in the long run. And if he was the one in a hurry to file, he would have done it long since.

I keep telling myself there are LOTS of things he would have done long since - moving out, filing, etc... But then I think, he's probably just cake eating. Having OW to text and talk to and dream about, and a wife that's killing herself being nice and pleasant to him at home.

I'm having one of those days when all I want to do is contact POSOW and call her every name under the sun for wrecking my marriage. I want to see her in person and tell her exactly what I think of her. And I want her to suffer, suffer, suffer over what she's done.

I won't though. And she won't care even if I did.

Last night I told WH he didn't have to go through with the separation, and he said, "YOU want me to go." So I replied, "Under certain circumstances, yes. What do YOU want to do?" And he sighed and said he didn't know.

But.....he dang well knows! He dang well knows he's still texting POSOW every day and probably making plans to go be with her as soon as he can - she's separating from her husband this week and has the kids the first week, but I'll bet come the next week suddenly WH will be very anxious to get out of our house.


We were talking this morning about this airline credit we had, from July, when we changed our honeymoon plans. We had always planned to take another trip together, but now we're going to have to use our tickets separately. I almost burst into tears right there and then but I waited until I was safely away from him.

Smiling hurts today.

I should also mention that a couple emails I found on his computer last night indicated that he was having a PA with her just before our wedding. Emails were exchanged DAYS before we got married.

I am feeling so sick over that, I don't know what to do.

What is your plan? When are you moving into Plan B?

This is about what YOU want, NOT on his timetable. YOU need to solidify your plan and move towards it.

So when are you "transitioning" to Plan B? Are you ready?

I am giving him his letter on Monday. Going to get through the weekend.

So he's packing up his stuff and going this weekend?

Are you going to pack his stuff if he doesn't? He may not you know.

On Monday after I give him the letter I will ask him to leave for his mom's place. I will help him pack if necessary.....although he still has a suitcase full of clothes sitting on the floor from the last blowup he had when he said he was leaving for good right there and then.

Working on my Plan B letter right now.

Have you given any thought as to what your requirements will be for him to return home? There have been a few SHORT Plan Bs around here. You don't want to have a FR.

Do you have everything planned out? Your IM has been told what to do. You are planning on being dark as night right? What steps are you taking to ensure that?

My Plan B Letter (Please comment!!!):

Dearest WH,

I am so sorry our marriage has come to this. I recognize my part in our relationship that created an environment where you felt it necessary to turn elsewhere to fulfill your emotional needs. I neglected you, was not supportive of your dreams, fought with you, made you feel uncherished, unrespected, and that we were not teammates in this marriage. Most of all, I apologize for not listening to you when you tried to tell me how you were feeling. I was not the wife or partner you needed me to be.

I have learned to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past, and am constantly working to find better ways to resolve conflict between us. I want to create a new life for both of us that meets both our needs and creates a loving home for our children. But we cannot do that until you end your relationship with POSOW once and for all, and commit to having her out of our lives completely.

Until then, I hope you will understand when I say that I cannot see you or talk to you anymore. IM has agreed to be our intermediary, and she will help in making it easy for you to see your children, as we discussed. Our only contact should be in the case of emergency about the children.

Please understand my decision to separate from you this way. It is not to punish you. I am sure you are aware of the suffering I have gone through over this affair, and I cannot continue to live with you any longer as long as you are also with her. I love you very much, but we cannot continue being under the same roof. I ask that until you are ready to commit to ending your relationship with POSOW and focus on our marriage and family, you leave our home.

I understand you have your concerns about our marriage outside of OW, with regards to my family. But I promise you I am working on those (even my IC says I am making progress) and whenever you choose to end relations with her, I will be ready to work with you as well on our marriage.

I look forward to the day when we can begin to rebuild our family and begin the rest of our lives together as a family. I want nothing more than to be your partner through life, and your best friend and confidante in all matters - you have always been mine. We can have a stronger marriage built on trust, love, honesty, and teamwork.

I loved you from the day I met you and I continue to love you right up to this moment. I hope for and look forward to a time when we can begin a new marriage with each other. I will be ready the minute you are.

Love,
NewPetals

I would most definitely NOT put this in there.

Other than that, I think it looks good.

I deleted a couple of other things. I think I'd also leave out the "once and for all" in the 2nd paragraph. I know that he's out of a job, but if he's drawing unemployment or has any savings, I think you should also put in a sentence that says you expect him to continue financial support.

Thanks Scotland and LC!

Should I give it to him tonight? Or wait until Monday? The only reason I selected Monday was that we have plans for tomorrow, Saturday, and Sunday is Mother's Day.....

Just called him and his cell phone is off. He's not answering the house phone. $20 he's off with OW.

I won't take that bet cuz I'd probably lose. Give it to him AFTER he is gone, or on his way OUT. If you are going with Monday, then Plan A your butt off until then.

The letter will lose all of it's affect if you say, "I am never going to talk to you again, will you move out in 4 days?" Some people even let their WS move and then give them the letter a few days later.

How about packing his stuff for him on Monday and having it ready to go and just tell him he needs to leave, you can't do this anymore, it hurts too much. He needs to go. Get yourself READY. This is gonna SUCK

Also, when the baby is born, if you are in Plan B, he can't be there. You are ready for that right? You would get your IM to let him know that the baby was born.

Wait until Monday to finish up your plan A. Leave a good memory, hand him the letter and go dark. I like the version of the letter LC did. You need to have a list of requirements for him to come home but not as part of the letter. I am hoping Neak will help with that. Also how is he to contact the IM? Phone, text or email?

I would wait til Monday.
Try to forget OW exists until then. Even if he is with her when not with you. Embrace the moments he IS with you with total delight.

Make them good moments to recall (for you as well as him) once you do go dark.

Yes, you could tell him he has to leave and then keep contact for a few days until you deliver the Plan B letter and go dark.

Do not forewarn him though. No. Do not. Quell that impulse to the max!

Okay, got it! I have written the letter, will make the changes LC and Scotty suggested. And I will give it to him Monday.

I have already told him that as long as he is with OW he will not be with me when the baby is born. I still think he believes me. But I will stay firm on that - I am NOT having my baby and having him go off and call OW minutes letter to tell her about his new son.

I will give him the letter on Monday and ask him to leave by Tuesday night if he has decided to go ahead with the affair.

He has IM's cell phone number and home phone number. I can always give him her email as well.

He should not be there as you birth. You'll be too busy having the baby to notice him calling OW.

That is a benefit of plan B, he misses BIG things. This is NECESSARY! Glad you see that.

(Sorry, I sort of misread your post about that, please forgive me. I thought you were going to let him be there at first. I have modified my post as needed)

NP-NO NO NO. You are doing that in reverse. You need to get him OUT and then give him the letter. You need it to be a SHOCK to him. Again, you aren't saying, "I will NEVER talk to you as long as you are with OW. See you later hun." That is CRAZY TALK. If Monday is your start to Plan B, he needs to be gone and you need to be in NC with him. He will NEVER take you seriously otherwise.

You need to prepare yourself. He will try to break NC. He will try to fight the fact that you won't talk to him. This WILL happen.

Have you read my thread? Many people gave me advice. It was great advice. I don't want it wasted. PLease listen. Do this the right way.

No! You do not give the letter before he is out.

You keep it and either give it as he takes his last dribble of belongings out the door OR once he has already been out for a few days and go dark.

You do not give it to him and see if he will go.

It is not a letter to give a wake up call to him. That is not what it is for.

It is a combo love letter/map back to the marriage.

You go to B because A has not worked in having the wayward dump the Other person.

B is for you to get away from the affair drama.

So....you ask him to leave due to the pain you are in. He leaves. Much love and kisses if possible and then a letter is handed to him that lays your heart on the line and how to rebuild if he ever chooses to.

He probably won't read it and run into your arms. Don't expect that.

He will try to give it a go with OP.

Once you are dark....you gotta go through your own withdrawal to the love of your life. It isn't easy at first. Make sure your physician knows the deal with what is going on so you can have as much support as possible!

Scottie is absolutely correct! Plan B is not to use as an ultimatum. You WILL have a list of requirements before you come out of Plan B, but you don't even begin to start discussing those until he meets the conditions in your Plan B letter. If he hasn't given you an answer by Monday, just ask him to leave. BTW, no answer IS an answer.

OH! I thought the Plan B letter was meant to be given to him and THEN he leaves. Glad to have that cleared up!

How do I get him to leave, then? What if he refuses?

I plan to go as dark as can be. And I am already in withdrawal from the love of my life a little bit....this man is NOT my husband or the man I fell in love with.....

I wanted to talk to my physician today about what was going on and not allowing him in the delivery room but (of course) today was the ONE appointment WH decided to come to with me. First one in the entire pregnancy. Of course. Will have to wait until the next appointment.

Well, I packed up my WHs stuff the day I was asking him to leave and I put HIS stuff on the porch. When he got home from work, I told him I couldn't live like this anymore. He wasn't going to go at first. We talked for 30 minutes and he finally said, "So this is IT?" I said, "Yes." I asked for our house keys again and he gave them to me. I walked out the door, locked it(that killed me) and got into my Dad's car and went to my sister's house for my Bday party.

It was a HORRIBLE day. It was a HORRIBLE next few weeks. Sometimes it is still HORRIBLE.

Here is where I was preparing for Plan B.

Scotty's Pre-Plan B

I'm going to post this because I think it's something other people should see. THIS is the mark of man who has reached personal recovery and is being so strong, and this is what I'm aiming for too. It's an email I just received from OW's husband. It made me cry .... I think seeing that strength from him really inspires me. And even though, YES, it will be horrible, it's what I've got to aim for: (OW refers to his wife, not HIS OW)


Sorry to hear you�re still feeling down and I know you are not in the same position as me but I�ve really been trying to look at the positive with my situation. After she leaves I am going improve my life with exercise, music and jobs around the house when I don�t have kids. When I do have the kids, I�m going cherish them for a week and do as much with them as I can. I am going to challenge myself to learn and grow everyday, just like the milk commercial�Grow always 

I keep a pretty positive attitude with OW as well but here�s the hard part. I get to see M [the lady who did his reading for him] almost everyday (in the building) and sometimes we chat. She basically left me with more questions then answers from the reading but she says it will come to me. One thing that has come to me (and I verified with her yesterday) was, OW and I will not be together as a couple again because we are on different paths and our paths no longer cross. We are moving on because we have done all we can do and it is time to go our separate ways. I told M, I can�t give up on 17 years! She said she knows but she is only telling me what she saw my path should be, not what I would do. We always have a choice and a path, there is only one true path for us and her job is to put people back on the path. Kind of profound don�t you think? Basically this is your inner voice coming from God and what she is trying to teach me to listen to.

I hear you about mourning the dream of the relationship because I don�t know how long I�ve been living in the dream. But that�s just it, isn�t it? If we�ve been living in a dream and they haven�t shouldn�t we get out of the dream and get on with our lives? Why should we want them back? Why should we even want to give them a second chance with us? I have decided that I will always be OW�s friend and we will always have the kids. Do I still love her? Yes, but not as my wife. Do I want her back as my wife? No, she can be my friend and the mother of my children. Now take this with a grain of salt because this is today and today is good. This is the way I want it to be but tomorrow could be a different story if I�m not feeling strong. The better or stronger I feel, I know that this is the right choice, not because someone told me but because I know it in my heart, I don�t want her back as my wife.

She keeps telling me we might have a chance to try and work this out but the more I look at it and study it, the more I realize how broken our marriage was, how broken my heart is and what the real truth is. I can tell she�s not very sure that she and I can even try to make it work or maybe she doesn�t even want to and doesn�t want to hurt me. But what I really think is, she wants me to wait until she figures out what she and [your WH] are doing and if it�s going to work between them. I don�t understand this and I will not hang out and wait for her to decide. I cannot do that in good conscience.

I owe OW a great deal credit for successes in my life and I felt like I let her down but I didn�t. We let each other down in our marriage then she had an affair with another man. I could�ve worked with her on our problems and I would�ve tried with her on the affair but she wouldn�t let it go with [your WH]. I can�t get past this. It is too hard on me that she wouldn�t let him go. I think maybe this is where you are at too? We were told it was over how many times? The spying, the wondering and worrying about all of this was killing me. How many times do I have to put myself through that? That is how come I am quitting on my marriage. Its not there and I don�t have the strength to try anymore.

NP, now that I know who you are and have met you, I know you are not the crazy person you were purported to be. You may be crazy from what was going on in your life and your marriage (like I was) but you are not ripping your hair out crazy. This is how they got me to stop talking to you. They knew if we exchanged info that they could not hide their affair. This is why I think OW has not made her decision yet. She doesn�t want me 100% gone until she knows how things work out with her and [your WH]. I think she is really struggling with this (even though [your WH] might not be). She has told me [your WH] wants her no question but that she is undecided. She said even it it�s a no go with him there is no guarantee that her and I will be together. How long do put up with waiting for her? I can�t, I won�t and above all I don�t want to.

I truly hope you get what you want and deserve but I have to wonder if that is [your WH]. I know for me it is not OW. I know this is hard for you to believe but OW is a wonderful person that I have known almost half my life and I am going to miss her and one day I am going forgive her for everything she has done but first I am going to forgive myself. When I can do that I can really move on and that�s what I�m trying to do. One day I am also going to forgive [your WH]. I�m sure you think [your WH] is/was wonderful too so maybe you can also forgive him and yourself too.

I also hope you have a happy healthy child and I hope you can stay happy and healthy too. I�m sorry I cannot be your rock to lean on so I truly hope you have someone that you can. Again, if you want M�s contact info I will give it to you but I have to let you know that I will have to end our �friendship� soon. The four of us are caught in this bizarre square shaped relationship and I have to cut it off at all my corners. This was also part of my reading and I imagine it will be for you too if you decide to go.

You know after reading this email over, I think I know the truth better then I thought and I think you know the truth better then you think too.
Thank you for helping me and I hope I helped you. I hope you find your path and that you can smile when you are on it. I am not ending our relationship today but I will have to soon and I hope you understand and I want you to know that I think you are a good person and that you deserve a better hand then you were dealt.
Please don�t share this as we know how the communication cycle works and it usually hurts us more then them.

I would love to see your reply to this email if you felt like writing one.

All the best,

OW H

I think he is placing too much importance on those "readings".

He has every right to not want to recover his marriage; however, I think that those who have children should at least TRY!

He may be personally recovering, or he may be lying to himself.

Sounds like a nice guy, though!

Well, I agree he may be placing too much importance in the readings. I think perhaps they were more just the mechanism that started his healing, rather than being important themselves. A while after meeting him, I directed him here and told him of a few basic MB concepts. He chose not to come post on the forums, but he read a lot of material. And said he'd been living Plan A since the day he found out about the affair (two weeks before I did). But, as he says, his wife and my husband are not willing to give each other up.

It's why I'm moving to Plan B. I admire his being able to journey to where he is without a Plan B.

Feeling a lot stronger today.

Pretty sure WH was out with OW last night - lied he was meeting a friend he hasn't seen since our wedding. Talked to OW H for a while and he said his wife had to "suddenly" go out too, drop stuff off at her new place. I am pretty sure WH was there at her place too - the two of them alone at last, how happy they must be to finally have a place to be together.....

Found out from OW H last night that OW found a couple lumps in her breast and she has to go for a bunch of testing. Part me thinks, "Good, she deserves it for being a marriage-breaking wh#re!!" and another part thinks her kids need her and hopes she's not that sick.

NP

I hope some of your strength can rub off on me.

I don't blame you for thinking she deserves it but you're right, her kids do need her. And you're the bigger person. Think positive. {hugs} Take care of yourself!

Does it ever do any good to give your WH a good, firm shake and say, "Snap out of it!!! Stay and FIX OUR MARRIAGE! You love me!"

That is what I feel like doing to him today. If only there was a way to remove the fog instantaneously!

When you're alone, shake a pillow and yell at it...then punch it and smack it around a little...

Don't we all wish that. But as they say, "Nothing in life worth getting, isn't worth working for." A GREAT MARRIAGE is worth any amount of work needed. Agreed? GOOD>

Loved the letter changes - looks like we have a winner!

Also, OWH is where he is BECAUSE he has not been in PB, not in spite of it. Your way (the MB way) is not only better for your chances of marital R, but better for you than an unhealthy "just friends" R.

Ya doin' good!

I am having a night where I have to pray and pray and pray to keep believing my marriage has a chance.

WH is beyond addicted. After a few days of it eating away at me that he might not know OW could be sick, I finally asked him tonight if he would WANT to know if I had heard something that could really impact his life. I wasn't trying to put a wedge in between them (honestly, I'd think less of him if he got freaked out bc she might have breast cancer), but I thought if it was ME, and I didn't know, I'd want to. That's huge stuff!

Turns out he already knew. AND now he is ANGRY at me, and saying that he was expecting that the next step would be for OW H and I to try to drive a wedge between them.

I'm so tired of my intentions being misconstrued. And he acts like I am the bad one in this relationship and that I am the one not to be trusted and who's lying at every turn.

He told me earlier today that his planned move out date is May 17. I will give him his Plan B letter then. He wasn't even firm on the date but I said it was probably best if he stuck to it.

We went out to a dinner theatre last night. I was so excited to have plans with him but the whole time he just seemed bored and disinterested and wanted to go home as soon as the show was over (even though we had the sitter late and I wanted to go out for a bit after, just to have some time with each other.

I BELIEVE my husband and I are supposed to be married to each other, not other people. I believe that with time he will see that too, and come back to me. And I believe in the success of MB. But tonight I'm having such a hard time keeping all that in my head and not falling apart.

Another thing he said to me was that it's very typical of the BS to feel bad when the marriage is ending becuase "after so many years of mistreating their spouse now they're scared and feel like an idiot." I think that's the most unfair statement. I think it's so cruel to say something like that.

{{{{{NP}}}}}}}}}

To me it sounds like babble... "oh poor me, my spouse doesn't understand that I just want to be happy!" blah blah blah.... and that is a cruel statement, meant to get at you... don't let it. Be strong. Just more self-serving bullcrap to make himself believe he's right.... we all know better.

Had an actually okay Mother's Day! DD was sick so she was sleeping with me in bed, and we were woken up by the sounds of WH coming into the room with breakfast on a tray for me. It was a serious step up from the way he's been acting!

In other news...WH has progressed from saying he's done with me to making stupid, insensitive jokes about how he needs polygamous marriages and how perhaps he's meant to be with TWO people in his life. He's all worried he's meant to be with OW but now she may be sick and she might die and he'll "end up with me."

Not sure whether to consider this an improvement or not.

He's kind and loving one minute, and then all of a sudden he'll do a 180 and start being mean and nasty. It's usually after he goes out .... which is when I think he calls OW. I think he's pretty confused and the only way he can make himself feel like he's right is by trying to convince himself that I am horrible and awful. And he gets angry because I am doing a FANTASTIC Plan A right now (if I do say so myself).

Thoughts?????? I am feeling pretty confused by him right now myself!

He's said May 17 he will move out. I will give him this week and then go dark once he's gone.

Yup, dime-a-dozen fogbabble; that's all that was.

Stick to your plan. Also, be ready to have him move out if he tries to continue stalling. After how many times he's already put it off, it's obvious he's on the fence and may not leave on his own.

If your $LB is depleting too rapidly, DEFINITELY tell him to leave sooner and go into PB right away.

You can do this!

Yup, he's a fence sitter for sure....cake eater!

I think it's interesting how he starts out very happy every day and then as soon as he talks to OW (or so I presume, he's careful not to do it when I'm around) he turns angry. And from what I hear from OW H, OW is a mess these days.

Strangely, my $LB is doing well these days, even with all the craziness my WH is exhibiting. With my new solid Plan A, I feel excited and happy and am enjoying the "spring cleaning" of my house and buying new things for it - just redecorating and changing the atmosphere of the house (it's gotten downright depressing). Bought a really nice cherub statue for the front lawn yesterday - WH loved it. We spent a good half hour talking about reno's and landscaping we wanted for the front of our house. Too bad he might not be around for it!

I figure this week is going to be FANTASTIC. And when he leaves on the 17th (because I already told him if that was his plan he better stick to it) he will regret it all the more, thinking about this week. I feel like I'm FINALLY doing the Plan A I should have from the beginning.

Okay....I know I'm going into posting overboard here this morning!

I WAS feeling totally upbeat and positive this morning. Well, over the weekend I found out by accident that WH is planning a trip with OW to Hawaii in Sept, with (and this hurts) an airline credit we had from when we changed our honeymoon plans last July, one ticket in my name, one in his. We have to book it by tomorrow.

So I asked him just now if he'd like to use the credit instead to come to Disneyworld with the kids and I in Dec. He said, "Oh I'll just look into vacation packages and pay for it myself." So, now I'm not only depressed that he's so set on going with her but kicking myself for inviting him. Because the only reason I did was to screw up his vacation plans with OW. AND, it sort of kills my Plan B if he is suddenly coming to Disneyworld now but he's still with her.

Ugh. My stupid impulsiveness and insanity.

I'm right there with you as far as impulsiveness goes. I've ruined some good MB plans by not being able to keep my mouth shut and just follow the advice and rules.

I think we all have moments like that. Nothing is totally ruined. Keep finishing your Plan A and Plan B will come along nicely.

HUGS

I know you need them right now cause I know I do too...

Don't stress it. September is a long way off, and if he's not on vacation with his family it's because he chose the hoe over being where he belongs.

A lot can happen between now and then. You're causing conflict in the A, while still being honest - you would LIKE very much for him to be there. That's fine.

He is not only og babbling you with this, "Two women" comment. He is trying to gauge how you are with that setup. That's a sweet deal, FOR HIM. He is showing you that he IS a cakeeater and that your Plan A is showing through. You are doing a superb job. My question is, why wait until the 17th? I mean, you are letting HIM be in control of this. What if it is the 16th and he says, "You know NP, I think I will move out June 1st. I need some time to get everything figured out." Then June 1st will come along and he will say, "You are so close to your due date. I think I will stick around to help with DD while you have a newborn to take care of." He will come up with excuses.

I think you should give consideration to making this about YOUR PLAN and picking a day when YOU go to PLAN B. Not going on HIS timetable. Please think about this.

I know. I'm just not ready to lose him.

I know I need to make him stick to his timeline of moving out. Things have just been so great lately that I'm going to miss him so much.

How do you prepare yourself for Plan B? I mean, I guess other than the fact that he's totally still having an affair...maybe I just need to keep reminding myself of that fact.....

NP --

Affairs require drama as fuel. They don't survive on everyday ordinary stuff.

I have a VERY strong suspicion that OW's sudden "issue" has more to do with creating new drama than an actual health concern...

It serves 2 purposes for her. #1 - gets her husband off her back for the affair. He gets caught up in her life-threatening illness instead of bitching at her about adultery. It would be cruel of him to yell at her when she's under so much stressssss.

#2 - it bonds your husband to her. Because if he is waffling or she senses him pulling away, then she needs SOMETHING to draw him back. OW use health scares and pregnancy the same way.

So take her "breast lumps" with much doubt. And stop feeling guilty...

NP, I agree with Lexxy. My H's last OW created a bunch of drama during her pregnancy by claiming she had cervical cancer and thus a "high risk" pregnancy. She had some pre-cancerous cells from a bout of HPV. Give me a friggin break!

Her husband is done with her. She moved out this weekend and he is GOOD. He doesn't want her back anymore. She asked him, "If I got really sick would it be okay if I moved back home?" and he said he didn't answer because he didn't know if he'd want to let her come back.

As for WH....yes, that is a huge part of it for him, I'm sure. Because I think he IS waffling, but this just makes him desperate for her to be okay so they can be together. Plus she's had lumps before that turned out to be cysts so why would this time be different? She's manipulating WH into feeling scared for her by telling him she's had this for a year now but was too "scared" to go to a doctor. Yeah right. If you thought you had cancer no way in heck would you want to live the last bit of your life having an adulterous affair.

Getting shivers thinking about this. It just makes my skin crawl, the whole situation.

2 can play that game NP...hehehe.

What if "something" was wrong with the baby? What if your pregnancy had complications? What if you were put on bed rest?

And what is even more fun is that OW would likely demonize you. She would cast doubts about you to WH.
She would tell him that you were "faking" because she would feel him pull back. And make herself look petty and cruel in the meantime. WH would defend you and baby.

Lovebusting in the affair commences...
Delightful....

The thought has crossed my mind!!

Can't be on bed rest because of my job....sadly. Otherwise heck, you bet I'd be "bed ridden" for the next 6 weeks!! lol

From what I hear from OW H, OW is a mess these days - last night he said, "I had forgotten about Crazy OW..." Almost feeling like hey, I should just let WH go off and get a taste of her flying off the handle becuase she forgot to buy butter, and realize his loving wife was truly something special.....

Hm. You know what, Lexxxy, I'm so seriously tempted to try something like that. Ideas?

Oh yes....

I had another question for the board (totally going into posting overboard today!!).

The same time I found out about their Hawaii trip, I also found out that OW had indeed been the one to email him a website with divorce information and separation documents. She's really pushing him!

Yesterday he said he wanted to sign the separation agreement that day, and I said, fine, let's do that! But he never brought it up again. Do I bring it up? Or keep quiet about it? I don't know if it would be a love buster or eye opener to bring it up.

Keep quiet and in the future change the subject if/when he brings it up.

Agree! You do M, not D or S.

Yea, what she said.

Yes, what she said!!

Goodness, I'm lucky to have found this site! I can't even begin to say how instrumental MB has been in getting me through this first initial part of finding my husband in an affair.

Took a bit of time coming home tonight so when I saw him I could be happy happy happy! He noticed, even commented on it. I wish I had found MB months, years ago!

I feel the same way. Especially since my WH has had his affair for up to 3 years now. SHUDDER. What I could have done before. Oh well, as my Dad always said, "When you KNOW better, you DO better."

ME TOO!!!! I know so much more about myself and relationships that I did before... I now know what I want and am working to attain it, and you can too!

Ya doin' good!

God, knowing the end from the beginning and every choice our WS's would make, led us each here at just the right time...for us.

For some of us that leads to a recovered M, for some of us that leads to a recovered self. Either way it's a blessing, and came at just the right time.

Hugs!

Yes. I have always been religious but I have to admit this affair knocked me off the boat for a while. Turning back to God now, and asking for help and guidance now.

Firmed up my resolved to get WH out of the house on Monday. I can see he's shaping up to procrastinate. I am going to have to pack his suitcases for him.

ITA, I know that I came here when I was ready. I think that if I came here earlier, I may not have listened as well as I did in the beginning. I didn't even listen that well.

NP- As far as having to pack his stuff for him, you most likely WILL have to. Don't look at it other than EMPOWERING. You need to do this for YOU, and for YOUR MARRIAGE. This is the best thing. You don't want a marriage the way it has become now. Either way, this is BEST.

WH is getting cold feet about his Hawaii trip with OW. He has to book his ticket by the end of today and last time I talked to him he said, "I don't know, I don't know what I'm going to do with the ticket! Can't you just leave me alone about it?"

I feel this is a good sign. Realistically, he's probably going to end up booking the ticket but hey....at least he's hesitating!

I myself have used the credit to buy tickets for me and the kidlets to Orlando in January, where we'll go on a Disney cruise. WH seems excited about it. Even though he's not booked on it and won't be coming if I still am in Plan B. He kept talking about buying himself a ticket.....I kept quiet.

hesitation is a good thing... making him think. Take it and keep Plan A'ing!

You're doing so great NP! I hope my Plan A could go as well. I'm trying, you're SUCCEEDING!

Remember, NO EXPECTATIONS.

Just keep doing your best Plan A, prepare for Plan B(part of Plan A remember?) and keep going forward.

Are you ready to go? What if something happened today that really got under your skin? Would you be ready TODAY to go to Plan B, the right way? Just be prepared. Stick to your plan. Don't react, ACT. Just keeping you on track. BTW, the day I installed to keylogger on my computer, there was a flat tire on our truck. WH had to change the tire. A couple of days later, he had to buy a replacement tire. He kept saying, "When WE have enough money, WE will get a new tire to replace this one."(the WE stressing is my point in showing you how waywards think) I was SOOOOO angry. I knew there was NO WE in his head. He was foggy. I saw it before with my SIL and then my Mom. WS keep making plans for the future even though they are telling you that there is no future. It is crazy making. Just keep on task.

You are doing GREAT with Plan A. Keep it up.

It sounds like the idea of Hawaii with OW was what he liked. Reality, maybe not so much. Excellent! Keep it up, NP!

Thanks for the encouragment, everyone! I still don't have any expectations - he's let out enough foggy angry bursts for me to be completely realistic about this....and yes, Scotland, you are right, he talks a lot about "our" future but doesn't want to let go of OW. It's maddening!

BUT, on the other hand, I feel confident that my Plan A is at least working enough for him to have a much harder time convincing himself that I am the crazy awful wife he always made me out to be! And when he goes off with OW, he will have these good memories of me. I almost feel like I'm putting a wedge in their relationship already - he seems very angry about it these days. I think my "happiness" is unsettling him - he's used to me sobbing and saying, "Stay! Stay!" whereas the Plan A me says, "Sure, honey, that's great! Go and be happy! What do you want for dinner tonight?"

I feel confident as well that if I had to, I COULD go Plan B today. I have everything ready to go - finances, IM, my letter in place and ready to give to him, everything I need. And I COULD have the strength to survive it...I just have to keep praying and having faith in MB!

Ok last post of the night, and advice needed!

WH and watched Lost together tonight, and when it was over I casually found a way to ask if he had ended up booking his ticket to Hawaii. After much digging he finally admitted he had but asked me to send him the booking email I had with the codes "in case he wanted to make changes.". Then, after I brushed my teeth I said to him, "so I guess that was the last episode we'll see together...". He was very shocked so I gently reminded him he had said he was planning on moving out on Monday. Then he said angrily, "i don't know, stop bugging me about this stuff please!". I asked why, and he huffed around and said he just didn't know so I left it at that.

I don't know what to do now. So my question is - do I do anything? Do I just leave it alone period, or do I leave it alone and pack his suitcases on Monday?

It seems to me like maybe the reality of leaving his wife is a little scary to him, not the great thing he thought it would be....

He doesn't plan to move out at all; it shocked him that you would actually enforce a boundary. You have to be sure that he does.

He wants to sit where he is and cake-eat, which you shouldn't allow.

EGG-ZACK-LY. That's just it. He doesn't want his real life and fantasy land to collide. Everytime you ask something that has to do with her(I would lay off of that for the rest of the time he is there) he doesn't want to talk about it. It pokes holes in his bubble.

Your Plan A is going GREAT. It would be GREAT if your Plan A is one of the ones that ends the A, just remember that happens 15% of the time. You will most likely need the Plan B. That means that you are planting the seeds now that will grow while your WH is with POSOW. You won't know about how well until you are well into recovery. You are doing a great job. Keep it up.

Since he's obviously not planning on moving out on his own I think you will need to pack his stuff and tell him he needs to leave, BUT on your timetable and not his. He's lost his chance to move out on his own terms, and really he hopes he won't actually have to go. You can bet moving out is much more OW's idea than his.

How do you feel about Wednesday?

That is what I was thinking too! He is just cake-eating his heart out! As for OW being the one to push him - I think she really is. To date, SHE has been the one to pursue him to begin with, SHE told him his marriage didn't stand a chance, SHE left her husband and is sending WH divorce/separation documents, SHE sent him a ton of emails about Hawaii..... So although, yes, WH went along with it all and is still pretty heavily fogged by her, he's not really the one pushing hard to leave me and be with her. Ugh. It's so confusing.

Had a (very short) chat with WH this morning and it turns out that he only booked a ticket for himself, and OW is not booked yet, and he doesn't consider it set in stone. He also said he's still very confused about whether he wants to go or stay with me. He went on about how he doesn't know if he'll ever be happy with me (fog babble) and then talked about how he wants to stay for our home, raising our children as a family, being a team together and weathering storms through life....I didn't push it, but I said as long as he's with her, he HAS to go. And he nodded and looked very sad.

Now that my Plan A is going well I don't know how long to leave it until he has to go. Is June 1 too late? Is that allowing him to cake eat too long? I just think my Plan A before was not really very good and it's pretty solid now.....

Advice? :S

June 1 might be too late, or maybe not; it mainly depends on you. A couple weeks more or less of cake won't make a huge difference to him, so it has more to do with the status of your Love Bank.

Also whether you're making this as a carefully calculated tactical move, or are simply postponing something unpleasant that you don't really want to do. I'm not trying to say that you're doing this one way or the other - you're the best judge of where your heart and head are right now. If you evaluate and you're sure it's #1, then go for it. If you think it might be #2, it's probably better to take the plunge sooner than later.

And last but not least, no matter what you decide, you can always bump it up sooner if you need to.

I had to hit the accelerator on my PB, too, because it turned out I just couldn't make it the 2 more days till I was planning it. As long as your ducks are in a row, you could jump in with only a few hours to finalize things if you have to.

NP --

Here is my worry for you: You send him out and go into Plan B on June 1. June 21 is your due date. He may quickly capitulate and agree to all of your boundries just as a way to be present at the birth. And you would be vulnerable to believing that he really means that the affair is over -- because of course you WANT him to be there. And you are then primed for a false recovery.

Who is your labor coach? Have you replaced WH yet? and is he aware that you are not planning on him being there?
I think that is a message you should deliver soon. Just like with the Lost episode, its another way for you to make the situation clear. Its VERY effective, hence his demeanor change and babble-purge.

I haven't picked a labor coach yet. Not really sure what that is, actually... I figure if it's not WH, it will be my mom. And I have told him several times that if he is still with OW, he will NOT be present at the birth. He tries to fight it, but I just reiterate my stance and he stops fighting.

So - would you suggest not having him present either way? I really DO want him there, but obviously not if he's still with OW.

So, what do I say? Do I TELL him I have a deadline in mind for him? Or just ....do it?

A deadline for WHAT? If you are asking if you tell him about you commencing Plan B, the answer is NOOOOOOOOOO. You don't do that because it sounds like an ultimatum. All you do is keep up your spectacular Plan A until your deadline. What happens if you chose June 1 and then he really makes you ANGRY and you decide on May 29th that you can't handle it anymore? Then it will be a BIG fight to get him out. It may take some fight to get him to go as it is. Plan B is in your back pocket to pull out when you are planning.

Ok got it. Sometimes I think my emotions are so much in the way here it clouds my brain. Heck, I'm as fogged out over WH as he is over OW!

You are fogged out of WH and that is NORMAL.

Now with regards to your delivery, that is really going to be tough for you. Your WH will DEFINITELY be fogged out either way. It really is a hard choice. You have to make the one that is best for YOU and YOUR BABY.

Chances are good that WH will be at the hospital if he finds out you're in labor, and he probably will. That's ok. Those big mean labor nurses will not let ANYONE into the room that you don't want there.

(My mom was a labor nurse for many years, tee hee.)

Don't stress it if he comes to see the baby - just have your personal bodyguards keep him away from you.

Ok well....spoke a little soon about WH's apparent indecisiveness.

Got home from work (had to pick DD up from her dayhome - alarm #1 was when he was so anxious to drop her off just a couple hours before the end of the day), and he was not around. Isn't picking up his phone or answering texts.

I KNOW he's with OW. The pattern is just too consistent - anxiety about dropping DD at her dayhome, ignoring my phone calls for hours.....And when he gets home, I bet he acts all weird and won't answer when I ask where he's been.

So I was thinking of saying tonight to him (please tell me if I should keep my mouth shut) that even if he's undecided whether he wants to stay with ME, he has made a clear decision that he wants to be with HER. So he has to leave.

Is it a good idea to talk to him?

You could use the "I believe in a marriage with only two people, would you like some tea?" Make sure you are touching his arm and looking into his eyes. This will get your point across.

I know this will KILL you inside. Believe me, I DO. You can do this. You have been doing so well. Keep yourself in check. Don't do anything to ruin what you have done so far.

So close to the end, you don't need to initiate a major confrontation. If he brings one to you, keep your sweet face on and reverse babble. But unless there's something really in-your-face, use Scotty's line as needed.

What he's doing right now is just standard sneaking around, not something really blatant like taking the kids on a play date with OW. (Blech!) So smile, knowing that his day of uppance is coming.

For the sake of any lurkers, let me also say that my advice might be different in the following circumstance:

If the BS is getting close to Plan B BUT their Love Bank is still in pretty good shape, I would be likely to recommend small but pointed confrontations.

"I know you were with OW tonight." Then just sit back and watch. Be ready for all kinds of anger, denial, and accusations. Don't back down, but don't escalate, either. "It doesn't matter how I know. I know you were with her." "I know you were with her, and I believe in a M with only two people in it."

Etc.

It's very unpleasant to go through, though it can be a very effective tool to cause conflict in the A. The two paranoid puke partners have long conversations about being followed and watched all the time. Hardly fodder for romance. That part can be kinda fun.

NP's Love Bank is already dangerously low, and it wouldn't take much to run it dry. Thus she needs to be extra careful to stay more (completely if possible) in the carrot part of Plan A than the stick, for the next little bit till she can go dark.

I've heard that some of the short ones are pretty tough, too. But that could just be a vicious rumor! Here's my advice: (1) If you have a birth plan, include in it that your husband is not to be allowed in the department to see you during labor. This works best if you're delivering in a locked unit, such as the one where I worked, but if it's not, you can still ask the nurses to keep him out. (2) Without necessarily going into all the gory details, tell your labor nurse why you don't want him there. "He's having an affair, and I just can't have him around me right now." The nurses will be more vigilant if they don't think you just had some insignificant lovers' spat over toothpaste in the sink, or leaving the toilet set up, where you'll get over being mad partway through labor and change your mind. (3) Delegate someone who WILL be with you (and not in pain, or otherwise distracted) to tell the nurses on your behalf if you forget. Bear in mind that you may not come into the hospital feeling like having a chat with anybody about your husband--or anything else! (4) Keep news of your hospital trip a secret, and make sure that anybody you tell that you're on your way knows that they are not to notify anybody else. It was EXTREMELY frustrating to be told by a patient or their family that we must keep X, Y, or Z out of the room, and then find out that pretty much the whole world had been told she was was coming in to deliver. Much easier to monitor your visitors for you if there aren't so many of them.

And (5) when the time comes, push hard! Good luck.

tl

Well.....unfortunately before I read all these responses I went with the "small but pointed" confrontation. Of course, I got a denial and a reasonable-ish explanation of where he'd been. Don't really believe it....

Sat him down and calmy reiterated the fact that if he expects to be around at all in the near future (not in those words, of course!) I will not accept him still being in a relationship with OW, whether he's seeing her or not (this is his excuse, "I'm not seeing her right now!" when he's just texting and calling her). He asked what it would take for him to be around for the first month of his new baby's life and I said that it wasn't so much the first month, as what I expect for the rest of our lives. Got lots of fog babble about why it didn't make sense for him to not be in contact with OW if the intent is there to contact her again in the future (in a "year" - yeah right) and then when I asked him point blank if he was willing to end it with her RIGHT NOW he thought and thought and said he might be willing to. Ugh. Why is the guy so confused????

Anyway, WILL NOT mention it again. But I will keep watching and if by June 1 (or sooner, depending on his behaviour) he has not PROVED to me that he has started pernament NC with OW, he will be gone and I will be in Plan B.

And yes, thndrnltng - I will make sure he does not even know I am in labour!

Oooh, good answer about the rest of our lives thingy!

Loving confrontation is fine as far as the WS goes (they hate it so it has to be good, right? ), and as I said, my main concern is your $LB right now.

Sounds like you made it through very well, so that's fine and dandy.

"First month" of baby's life - how foggy can you get? I had to lol about that one. He hasn't noodled this all through - I guarantee it! Beautiful answer, great interaction.

He is so clingy, and will probably get even more so as you get closer to delivery. At some point we'll have to talk about the actual logistics of having him leave and giving him the letter. You may want to think about sending DD2 somewhere else earlier that day, and hand-delivering your letter as you walk out the door for a good 24 hours or so.

One of your family members could go over and make sure he had left before you go back.

Just a thought.

Thanks Neak! I'm learning, slowly but surely!

I'm just wondering - IF he agreed to end it with OW, what ways can I make sure this is true? I know a NC letter is the first step - but couldn't he just call her after and say, "Hey listen, my wife made me do that..."?

He is VERY clingy. Definitely not willing to give up his family at this point! The main thing I had to clarify last night was that I was not asking him to leave because I was hurt over the affair, but because the affair was continuing. I don't know if I'm getting through to him but the firmer I am, the more he seems to pull back on his wonderful plans for a life with OW....

OR, he could just be lying through his teeth. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt for now and keeping up with my Plan A.

At what point do I revisit the issue of the A? I don't want to bring it up every day, but I feel like it should be addressed again?

NP,

How long have you been in plan A? It seems as though you have had quite a few relationship discussions while in plan A, which is not advised.

It may be advisable for you to think long and hard about whether or not you can do Plan B as I don't see that you have a lot of self control. I don't mean to hit you with a 2X4, but if you can't not discuss relationship 'stuff with him, how are you going to stop yourself from seeing/speaking/communicating with him? Are you really up for these plans?

People that have done the plans can advise better I'm sure, but to do a partial plan B in worse than none at all as you will lose credibility with the WH.

If you can do a plan B, when do you expect to do so? Remember, it is up to you, not him, for the date for him to leave the house. I thnk Neak made an excellent point saying are you delaying plan B bc it makes sense, or bc you can't face it?

All the best,

ba

Only if the opportunity arises. You don't have to force the issue, since you're just about to lower the boom. That is going to send the message, loud and clear, that you're done living in the presence of an A.

If you haven't read my story already, I recommend that you do, just in case you're among the few who has a very short Plan B. That will begin to answer your questions about what to do if he agrees to end it, and what about a FR. Then ask specific questions that come to mind as you see both what I did well, and also the mistakes I made.

No, I don't think your WH is lying through his teeth about clinging to his family (while still being very attached to OW, too). That's an ideal position for him to be in as you prepare for PB.

Even when your WH is ready to end it with OW and come home, go into it expecting there to be a FR. When the A doesn't fizzle out on its own, like around the 2+ yr mark, a FR is almost guaranteed. So brace yourself and be ready.

HOWEVER if you deal mercilessly with the FR, you have a very good chance of killing the A off completely at that point.

BeginAgain,

I have been theoretically been in Plan A since about the beginning of April. BUT, I was not truly in Plan A until quite recently. I couldn't stop myself from AO's, DJ's, and most of all, talk after talk about the affair! My emotions were up and down and all over the place, and I was falling apart more every second.

I'd say my "real" Plan A started about last Tuesday. I'm avoiding relationship talks except when I feel it's necessary, and even when I KNOW he's lying to me, I don't push the issue. I have had only two relationship talks with him during this last week, and both were very short - I said my piece and then changed the subject to happier, more neutral topics.

Two weeks ago, I would NOT have been able to face a Plan B. I was a wreck. I was sobbing every second, in front of him and away from him. I think I have reached a point now where I feel I have been doing the Plan A I should have, and feel honestly okay going into Plan B. I'm limiting my communication during the day with him now when I'm not at home...and it gets easier every day. I'm giving it until June 1 for my Plan A to sink in, and at that time I will pack his bags for him and send him off, PLB in hand and go dark, dark, dark. And I CAN do it now.




Neak, I am reading your story now! I started it before but never finished it. It is a fascinating read and inspiring to the extreme! I have a small question - I thought the idea is never that the BS should leave the house? What if you had left that night and he refused to leave after?

How do you deal mercilessly with the FR? Perhaps I haven't gotten to that part in the thread yet...

It was in my mom's name, so he would have had no choice. And I have no problem with a BS leaving the house temporarily only. If that is done, steps need to be taken to make sure the BS doesn't lose possession. There are ways that can happen - having a strong-willed friend or family member stay there is a good one.

Yes, there are some FR ideas in there a little ways. I liked them all, even the ones I didn't end up with a chance to use.

OKAY. After reading your thread, Neak, I had a thought, but wanted to run it by the good folks on here first.

Last night when he asked what it would take for him to be around, and I answered him about the rest of our lives, etc....I never actually told him WHAT he'd have to do other than end it with her.

Would it be okay, tonight, to give him a list of what he would have to do? Or is that strictly a Plan B thing?

Not yet.

It's an I'm-ready-to-end-the-A-so-what-do-I-do sort of thing. Since that usually happens after PB, that's why you're associating it with that.

If he asks again, you can answer, "For starters, you need to be willing to have no contact with OW for the rest of your life. Till you're ready for that, there's not too much else to talk about." And then of course transition smoothly into another topic, like you have to do so often. "More tea, Honey?" Or whatever.

Whether PB has occurred or not, The List is given to a WS after they've agreed they're ready for NC, and that first step is taken care of. The NC letter paves the way for you to even be willing to talk about The List.

No R talk, just light and fluffy. Look for opportunities to meet his EN for admiration.

You can say THAT again, darlin! Never mind, I'll say it myself: "no choice".

tl

WH is apparently going away next week up north for work. I asked him how I could know that he was not just back in our city but spending his nights elsewhere, or if she would just be up there with him. He said I could call his friend to check. (But OW flew up there several times before to be with him so how could I know?) I asked him point blank if he would still do that to me, lie like that, and he said, "I've done it lots of times before."

That KILLED me.

So today when I got to work away from him I sent him this email:

WH,

You must know how badly this affair has hurt me. What hurts the most is not only that you are still involved in the affair, but you do not seem to care how I feel about it, or how it hurts me. There isn't any remorse when we discuss it or any indication that you have any regard for how I'm feeling over this.

I have been trying hard the last two months to keep our family together. I have been doing this because I love our family and I love you so much, even after everything that you've done. My main concern hasn't been the fact that you might not want to be with ME anymore, but that you are not giving it even the chance of discussion or thinking about it by continuing your affair with OW. When I was still snooping through your stuff before, I saw an email she wrote you when she said, "Your marriage never stood a chance, especially after you met me." I disagree. I think it's BECAUSE you met her.

I cannot and will not do this anymore. You say you are on the fence about being with her, but actions speak louder than words and your actions show your intent (booking a trip to Hawaii, lying about where you are, staying in close contact with her...). And you often have outbursts when you say what you really feel ("What's the point in stopping communication if the intent is there to contact her in the future?") So, even though I said June 1 before, I really think it's best instead if you find a place to stay for when you get back from up north next week. It's not fair to me to keep doing this.

I continue to pray that you will choose the right path and end your affair and give our family another chance. But until you do, I cannot have you in the house with me. I'll pack your things, at least what I can, while you are away next week so it's easy for you to just pick it up when you get back home.

Love,
NP

I know Plan B is supposed to be a surprise for the WS, and I still plan on giving him his letter but is it okay that I sent that? Thoughts?

And.....you guys were right. My $LB can't last until June 1.

IMHO you did good. You stood up for yourself and you're taking care of yourself by making him get out. I'm sure others will have more to say about it but I just wanted to offer my support. Good for you!

Well what's done is done, so pack his bags while he is gone and write your plan B letter. Get your IM ready and when he returns, give him his bags and the letter. You cannot keep doing the R talk during plan A so yes, plan b. Make sure you arrange now with your OB and the hospital to not allow your WH anywhere near you or the baby. Did you arrange for someone to be with you during labor? Do you have a back up plan for DD2? Do you have transportation to the hospital? Get all of your ducks in a row and then some.

Do your local laws allow you to change the locks? If not, get his keys when you give him his bags. If you have a remote for your garage, change the code.

NP,

So sorry that you are going thorough this. I think you are doing a very good job under extremely difficult circumstances. Personally, I think that any man that would do this to a wife while she is pregnant is extremely selfish, entitled and cruel (even more then the typical wayturd). I know that all waywards suck azz, but to do this during a time that should be one of the most amazing experiences a couple can go through is just beyond my comprehension.

Great job on recognizing that your LB is getting close to the red. You must get into Plan B before it is completely drained. I waited to long to go to Plan B and ended up reaching the point of no return with a completely empty LB. I'm in Plan D now and there is nothing that WW could do to turn things around now although she has tried. Don't let yourself reach that point. Protect the remaining love you have for WH by going to Plan B. It's your best chance at holding your family together.

Thanks Faith. I have my Plan B letter all ready to give him (wrote it last week), and my IM set up. I plan on not being around when he stops by to pick up his things - I will have a friend there to meet him and help him load things. My DD can go to my mom's house when I go into labour and either my brother can care for her and my mom can come to the hospital, or the other way around. My brother can drive me when I go into labour.

I will have to look into changing the locks. I didn't know there were laws that could prevent me from doing so! Anyway if I get his keys, he can't get in through the garage because we have another door into the house that will be kept locked.

Margie and Mindshare - thank you. This hurts like h3ll! Mindshare - just to add fuel to the fire, he was having an affair BEFORE he got me pregnant. And he pretended he was on board with having another baby and pretended to be HAPPY about it. He only recently admitted that his first thought was, "Well, this makes things more difficult..."

NP,

Sorry it came to this but you probably knew it would....

I think you handled it with class and grace. Stick to what you said though, don't get into a discussion with him about it, go DARK!

Did your DD come early? How is the pregnancy progressing? Please think only of yourself and your two children right now, any day longer before you deliver is better for the baby. Try to have peace within yourself, even though the outside is more like a war zone!

Even if you can't change the locks, you can install the motel-style locks that a person has to open on the inside. Then, if you change the code on the garage, you can still keep him out whether you're there or not.

Remember you're in Plan A right up till the moment he gets your PBL. Even though you've told him to move out, keep right on being your wonderful you till the last second.

NO R TALK! Asking (telling) him to move out was fine; don't repeat your mistakes with R talk. Other than that, carry on as planned.

Just got an email back saying how I was so self absorbed and unwilling to accept responsibility for my part in the destruction of our relationship. Sad thing is, I DID accept my part and have been working my butt off to meet the needs I didn't before! AND he knows it too. He's trying to turn it around back on me. NO mention of what HE did to our marriage....

He ended by saying he has to think about it a lot more and we can talk when he gets back. I don't want to talk about it anymore. Do I tell him this or just go ahead with the plan?

Translation: "Fog fog fog I don't want to leave but I want OW too fog fog fog."

Don't try to argue with or educate a wayward. Stick to your plan, and move his hiney out. Go into Plan B.

You don't need to say any more about it - just have his stuff ready to go. If he brings it up, something like, "I'm not willing to live with someone who continues to contact their adultery partner. How's the weather out there?" will work well.

Stop trying to educate him! It all has been said before anyway. You just cannot reason with a wayward, they loose their ability to reason when they reverte back to being teenagers!

Squirrel!

So sorry to hear this NP. This is extremely wretched behavior even for a wayward! This really ticks me off!!

Don't engage in any more discussion with him at this point. You have set your boundary now follow through. Make sure his stuff is packed and ready to go when he returns. If you don't follow through he will always think that you have nothing but empty threats. You need to do this and you need to get yourself into a place of peace for the remaining month plus of your pregnancy. You and the lil bean need and deserve it. You need to remove this addt'l stress from your life. You've set the stage to do so, now it's time to follow-through.

You can do this NP. You've already shown what a strong woman and mother that you are by just getting to this point. Follow through.

THANK you for the support, everyone!

I fully plan on being a superb wife until the minute he leaves (I told him the end of next week). I will not engage in any more R talk with him and I will not push the issue. As far as I am concerned, he can blame me all he wants but this affair is independent of any problems he may have had in our marriage. I informed him I was no longer interested in talking about it - he knows what the cost of continuing contact with her is.

Talked to him a short while ago and he said, "If don't want me to go up north, I won't go! Just say so!" So I nicely responded I didn't want him to go, but it was up to him. Of course it seems like he's still going...

Which is perfectly fine. I'm going to drop DD off at my mom's this weekend and use the time alone to get some of his stuff packed. My heart hurts like crazy but my mind is made up. I cannot and will not keep allowing him to cake eat while I suffer the affects of his affair.

You rock NP. You have a plan. All that is left to do is execute it. No R talk at all! Plan B just around the corner. It is absolutely time for you to shift your focus to the health and well being of you and lil bean. Stress is the enemy of your pregnancy right now. You must do all you can to eliminate it.

Keep on keeping on......

NP,

All this drama and plotting isn't doing you any good, which means it isn't doing the baby any good. I know you want to save your marriage, but the baby is more important right now.

Remember, everything happens for a reason and God has given you the blessing of another child. Please embrace this gift and put this on the front burner.

No more reading his e-mails/text messages. No more R talk. Prepare for the little one and pack this w/e. Put calming music on, take a bath, read fiction, no R books!

When is your last day at work? Did they guestimate how big the baby might be?

Thanks BA! That is what I plan to do while he's away....just have time for me and the kids and packing up his stuff! I'm SO TIRED of all the drama and I really don't feel like talking to him about it anymore. I don't feel like talking to him AT ALL right now, actually, so I'm almost looking forward to him being gone. It'll be like a mini Plan B for me.

It's going to be a beautiful weekend (finally, no more snow!) so I'm planning on getting out and enjoying it! Hoping to find time to take DD somewhere nice, maybe for a bbq in the park or something.

My last day of work is coming up soon - June 15! I'm looking forward to it, as it's getting hard to sit for too long these days. I'm back in a "sleepy" stage of pregnancy too so sitting in front of the computer all day is NOT helping. They said they can't tell how big the baby is but I think it's definitely bigger than my daughter for sure. He's a squirmy little one too - definitely ready for him to come out!

So WH called me when I was on my way home and said he had just been waiting to hear about the results of OW's health tests before he "broke the bad news" to her. The tests came back fine, as I knew they would. He now says he is willing to end his relationship and will break contact with her. He left for the field and we said the coldest good bye we've ever said when he's left for work.

I have a few days to think about things but what do I do now? Make him leave still? Give him a chance to see if he's genuine? I know he's not doing this for me, and he said he's still not willing to commit to our marriage. I think he's doing this because he realized I was serious about him not being around for the birth and for the first few weeks.

So what do I do????

stick with your plan, I think.... sounds like cake-eating, making you believe he's ending it, and so on... be strong, stick to what YOU want to do.

Well, I would still go to plan B unless he meets your conditions immediately. You have already been through 3 ddays and I don't want to see you go through another one. You may say (I would ask Neak) that he needs to write a NC letter, approved by you and mailed by you. Give you complete access to everything and counsel with Steve Harley.

This is very concerning:


If he isn't willing to commit to the marriage then you definitely need to stick to your plan and go plan B. You have a baby coming very soon and you should not put yourself and lil bean at risk of the stress of another d-day before the baby is born. Your marriage is important but right now at this moment the health of you and your baby trumps everything. I firmly believe you should stick to the plan.

I agree. You have conditions spelled out that he has to meet in order to come back from Plan B, right? He still has to meet those conditions. NC is great, but at this point it's too little, too late. ALL of your conditions being met is what needs to happen. He still needs to go.

I think you all might be right.

As it stands, he left for up north last night. Texted me around 10.30pm saying his phone was dying, but he was just going to drive the whole way (originally he planned to make a stop halfway). I had asked him for receipts or something to prove where he was .... and I think saying he was going the whole way might have been a way to get around that, since he's just staying with a friend up there.

His friend he is staying with called me back last night but I only listened to the voicemail this morning. He said WH is supposed to be there MONDAY MORNING!!!

Tried calling his friend, but I think he's busy working. Asked him to please call me back to confirm this information.

I am going nuts. I trusted him and believed him when he said he was going up north last night! If he was lying.....well, I don't think there's any hope left for us, Plan B or not. That would just be the last straw. I will wait patiently for his friend to call me back but I feel sick inside.

This hurts to read. (((NP)))

I think you are wise to wait patiently for confirmation from the friend. As hard (impossible) as it sounds, try to stay calm, and don't get worked up until you know what the situation is.

Have the bags packed and letter ready to go when he returns.

NP,

Please calm down and disengage. Again, you are being caught up in the drama.

It doesn't matter what WH is doing or going right now. Focus on you, you kids and your plan. Let nothing else through.

You can do this, you are strong.

I am so sorry NP, I know this is very hard and how much it hurts...Beginagain is right, dont worry about what he is doing right now and Ill add that there is no reason to give up hope right now...just be strong and do what you need to do to take care of yourself...Focus on your plan. Hang in there, K?

You will be fine.

I am trying hard to disengage.

He claims he will have receipts to show me that he was up north last night. But OW H texted me and said he knew WH was at OW's house last night....still trying to get hold of him to find out when, and if he knows if he stayed the night.

AND now, apparently, WH's friend (who hasn't called me back) is NOT up north right now after all, but here in town for a couple days, so there's no way to corroborate the story.

Sigh.

WH is being especially tricky too, saying he's going to try to find some way to send me pictures tonight to prove where he is. He says his phone is broken and can't send pics but I know this is a lie - saw an email he sent to OW a couple days ago. I don't understand the LIES!

ANYWAY. Need to work on packing his things this weekend. I just don't trust a single word out of his mouth anymore.

Wanted to do some painting in the nursery this weekend but realistically....am heavily pregnant and have never painted before. :P It would be tough lol.

I'm so sorry NP. I'm hurting for you right now. I hope you can get some evidence one way or the other.

LilBean won't care if his room doesn't have a fresh coat of paint on it for a while yet. Heck, my kiddos have never had their rooms painted. They are 9 and 7. They want to repaint the room now though. They want 2 walls blue, 2 orange and the ceiling purple. AHHHHHHHHHH Well, it's only PAINT.

DD2 is very excited by all the painting going on and has picked out the most lurid red colour for her own room. Don't have the heart to tell her that I don't want to paint her room bright red......

The problem is that there's already a paint colour sample brushed onto the wall in the nursery. Baby might just have to put up with it!

Stupid WH. He was supposed to finish painting our home and now with half the walls one colour and the other half another, and paint splashes all over the walls, I will have to hire someone to finish it. It's doubtful he is going to be able to finish it before he has to leave.....

((NP)) You don't need evidence honey. Your gut is screaming the truth at you and you don't need the extra stress. Just get ready for plan B. Scotty is right you don't need to worry about painting, the baby won't care.

Please pamper yourself this evening.

Jeez after my WH left we had our christmas tree up ALL YEAR, my lawn was a mess, weeds everywhere....kids dont care about that stuff. The paint can wait. Just take care of you and your kids as best you can right now honey, okay? Dont sweat the unimportant stuff. Take care of yourself especially.....

Sounds like alot of gaslighting going on regarding the trip north. C'mon NP...you know what is going on. Please...please remove yourself from this stress! For the next couple of months the most important things in the world are you and lil bean (and DD2 of course). I'm imploring you to get into your plan B and remove yourself from this drama.

We are here for you NP....

(((NP)))

Thanks, you guys. Going to do my best to take this advice and stop worrying about it for a while....at least until he's back in town.

Had a nice day with DD today anyway. And the sun is out, so that always makes a day better.

Packing up DH's stuff ( bc most of this brings back memories of when he was my DH and not my WH). Sobbing away. This is so hard!!!

Sorry NewPetals. I can relate.

Oh {{HUGS}} NP. Be strong! You have been so strong in helping me, you deserve that strength even more! Just keep thinking that you are doing your best to R your M and this is just the next step. You are doing great!! Go out for ice cream when your done. Something to look forward to. I'm pulling for you, I really am!

{{{NP}}}

Be strong. Take a minute and cry, take some calming deep breaths, then get back to it. Remember, this isn't only for you, this is for little bean and DD.

Thanks guys. Trying to be strong. Everytime i pick up a new pile of clothes to pack away I just break down. And looking around the house is hard too, there's just so much stuff to pack.....

Trying not to cry in front of DD. It's hard because she's following me around.

You are doing a great job! For you, DD and lil bean. I can't say that enough.

Take a break! Go out for ice cream... I love ice cream

MY poor DS caught me crying a lot...just could not be avoided...just do the best you can okay?

I mean I could stop myself from saying the rotten things about him I wanted to rant about on occasion, but the crying I just couldnt control...Your WH did this, not you...if you cry in front of DD its not your fault...I would just tell my DS that I loved and missed WH. Me and DS would cry, on occasion, together. Sometimes it just could not be avoided.

Hang in there, you are doin fine.

He lied to you about going up north.

NOTHING HAS CHANGED.

Not your plan (excellent), not your chances of R (still good), not his nature (lying cheating alien). You may get confirmation and you may not, but it doesn't make the least little bit of difference, so don't waste any more energy trying to prove it. DEFINITELY don't let this one event change your plan one way or the other. All waywards lie - if their lips are moving they're lying.

Big hugs on the packing thing. Even though it's hard, you are absolutely doing the right thing.

I know you said he's gone for about a week, but when exactly is he supposed to get back? I'll do my best to check in a little more that day if I can.

Carry on, soldier. This isn't hopeless. The loss of one battle can't predict the ultimate outcome of the war. You can do this.

Not exactly sure when he'll be back. He mentioned Wednesday but we'll see what actually ends up happening. I want to ask for receipts to prove his return trip too - but is it worth it? OW's kids are at their dad's this week so he could stop by there for an hour or two and excuse it in a billion different ways - rest stops, dinner stops, whatever.

I have one big suitcase of his clothes packed. It's enough to last him a couple weeks and I figure he can come back while I'm out at work during the day and get the rest of his things together. Is this the right attitude to take? Or should I pack up more stuff?

Sent him an email this morning saying I wasn't sure if him just saying he would end it was enough at this point, and we had lots to talk about when he got back. He didn't respond. And he's been ignoring my calls all day. Didn't tell him I had packed his stuff up.

I honestly feel like yes, if his lips are moving, he's lying to me.

Just to complicate my night further, his mom is coming into to town tonight to spend the night, since she's buying a house just south of the city and doesn't want to make the long drive home. She's been pretty supportive but I feel like I need to be careful what I say to her right now....

Definitely be careful of what you say to her. Better safe than sorry!

NP,

When you sent him an email about the relationship, asking about receipts. This is not Plan A or Plan B. Not sure what plan you are in, but it isn't MB.

This is why I was concerned about you not being able to go to plan B.

I don't mean to be harsh here but look at the facts. Your WH is out of work, but yet you have a cleaning person? I assume your WH is not watching your daughter while you work, otherwise he couldn't take off for a week. Your 8 months pregnant and he takes off for a week, for what? You are the one holding everything together, as best you can, and are PREGNANT!

Yes, all WH's are selfish, but this takes a special kind of person to do this. This isn't a person who is part of your family, he is outside it, by his choice. And you allow him to treat you this way. Please, several of us have begged you, think of yourself and the little ones. This isn't a good example for your DD. You have to be the adult here.

Stop asking him when/if he is leaving, you make the choice of the day and stick too it. Go away with your DD, don't answer your mobile, turn it off.

Either you stand up now, or you keep up with the begging, the R talk, the drama, the constantly being upset. You are making the bad choices for yourself now, you can't blame your WH for that.

Please think of yourself and the little ones. Praying for you.

ba

Here's another thing you might want to consider:

Chances are that the OW might show up at the hospital, wanting to see your baby through the nursery window. If you have a picture of her, maybe you could give it to the nurses and explain that you do NOT want them to allow this woman to see your baby, even if she is with your WH.

If you don't have a picture of her, you could print up some index cards to give your family and visitors and let the nurses know to only show the baby to people who have one of the cards.

I wouldn't bother talking about anything with him. I'd just set his bags out on the porch, tell him that he has to leave right now, and hand him the Plan B letter. Have someone there with you...preferably your brother.

NO do not ask him for receipts. You know he's lying, so there's no point.

If you're in PB, you don't want him back in the house for anything. Pack as much of his stuff as you can, and do the rest as soon after as possible. One of your relatives can supervise him picking it up on the front porch.

Once he leaves, he doesn't come back in. Period. When the alien is gone and your DH is coming back, then you can think about it.

Very good idea about the OW picture to L&D staff.

Beginagain said exactly what I have been thinking. I'm sure it is hard to read but please read it a few times. You keep allowing yourself to be sucked into the drama by continuing to question your WH. You know he is lying and gaslighting you. For the safety and health of both you and lil bean you need to stop engaging in the drama. Set your date for Plan B and follow through with it.

You can do this NP....

Even if you don't know what day he is coming back, set the Plan B date for today-for instance. After today he cannot come back into your house, ya know? You don't need to know the exact day he's coming back.

I still don't think he's special. He was already a mush-minded alien when NP got pregnant, so this whole pregnancy has been viewed through wayward goggles. Nothing, not even a lil bean, will snap even an average WS out of their fog, till the A has fully or nearly run its course.

Other than that, I agree with every word.

NP, I think Margie has a really good idea. Just in case he comes home sooner than you expect, I think you should have all his worldly possessions piled by the front door with the PBL lying on top.

Yes you'll have to look at it for a few days, but he also won't be able to catch you off guard any hour of the day or night.

I meant by not being employed and contributing monetarily and not contributing by helping with the household and child care. This may be pre-WH behavior though, it could be the way he is having nothing to do with the A. On top of that, being the one employed and pregnant, addind to NP's burden with the A and leaving, not trying to assist her, I do think this is outside the norm. Again, it may have nothing to do with the A.

I think you said your family had issues with him, correct? Perhaps you could revisit this and see within yourself what ever points they were making, is it something valid or spiteful? Perhaps they were thinking of you. Anyway, food for thought as everything can't or shouldn't be just labeled wayward fog if it is pre-existing.

I didn't mean in any way to be hurtful, just helpful. We can all probably see a little of ourselves in your sitch and trying to have you avoid any pain that can be avoided. And to bolster your self confidence.

You are an amazing person NP. You are a good parent, good provider, and are a caring, giving person.

I hope only the best comes to you, health, happiness, and a loving family, whatever that comes to mean.

ba

((NP))

Just want to chime in that you're doing great NP. Just hang in there. I also agree with Margie's idea. I forget, are you planning on changing the locks? Perhaps you should get that done today. When he gets home don't even open the door, though it would be nice if you were gone. When he calls, don't answer. If he gets angry/ violent, call the police.

You can do this NP, you really can. Stay strong. Do you have an IM?

I see what you mean, Be. And whether it's pre-A entitlement or during-A, it's gotta go before he's ready to R.

Wow, thanks for all the responses, everyone!

BA - actually when WH lost his job, we stopped using the cleaning lady and have been trying to keep up with the housework ourselves. And he's actually up north right now for work (I know he's definitely up there NOW, the timing of WHEN he was actually driving up there instead of being in Calgary was what I think he lied about). The childcare is part time so WH has time to do a little contract work (only usually he ends up wasting this time, or using it to see OW, which pi$$es me right off).

And thanks for being harsh. It made think a LOT and I think I needed that jolt of reality.

Anyway, yes, I am tired of his attitude toward this marriage and our children. He talks pretty big about wanting to be around for this baby, but his actions show differently. He's never asked about it, come to ONE appointment with me (and not because he wasn't able to, becuase he didn't want to), and is totally uninvolved with the entire pregnancy.

I woke up this morning feeling a lot better. Had a mostly sleepless night but by the time the morning came, I had a whole new outlook on the situation. I am looking forward to being in Plan B now. I am tired of having to constantly question his behaviour and actions.

Sounds like you are turning a corner NP. Judging WH on actions instead of words is exactly what you NEED to be doing. As I've stated before, I despise any man that would abandon his wife during preganancy even more then your typical wayturd.

When does Plan B start? Make sure you have everything arranged so that you can go dark as dark can be. Once there, you will be able to take a breather and focus on you and lil bean for the next month until delivery as it should be.

I plan to start it on Friday. I could do it sooner but (maybe this is being vindictive) OW gets her kids back on Friday and I want him to be as screwed as possible for a place to go. And I need time to have him sign a separation agreement for paying bills, etc, so he doesn't just go away and then stop covering the mortgage and childcare expenses, etc. Wouldn't put it past him.

For months he's been saying, "I just want to get away from you." Well.....here is his chance to see what it's like after he's "gotten away" from his wife and children.

Whether he signs an agreement or not, he's still responsible for supporting his REAL family financially.

Rather than risk him putting a monkey wrench in your PB plans by bickering over details of a separation agreement, you might consider taking a short-term risk and filing for an emergency hearing only if he stops paying. If you're the main breadwinner you can worry about that less, anyway. Either way, I think you should proceed as already planned.

I also don't think your plan should be dependent on OW's kids. Whether he has to leave Wed or Fri, either way real life will crash in soon enough.

He's out of the house right now. You DO NOT want to let him back in.

I think the idea was for him to have to go to OW and deal with her (more than likely) bratty kids.

Yes, change the locks ASAP...and Plan B will be a godsend for you right now, youll see. You need some peace right now.

This is actually a pretty good idea. The mortgage payments come directly out of his bank account anyway so if he defaults it's going to badly affect his own credit as well, which I highly doubt he wants. So yes, perhaps this is the best way to do it.

I am going to work on more packing when I can. Got caught up cleaning the house yesterday what with WH's mom coming to stay, so I didn't get as much done as I'd like to. It'll have to be in the evenings after work....but oh well. It'll get done.



Actually - I am not quite even as nice as that! He CAN'T stay with OW when her kids are around, which leaves him high and dry for a place to go!

OW H would kick his sorry @$$ if he was around his kids. I don't blame him. The thought of DD even SEEING OW makes me sick sick sick. I think I'm going to borrow a name for her from another poster (Scotty, is it?).....WF (Wh#re Face).

I will have to call someone to change the locks on the doors. And yes, my IM is all set up. She is fantastic, if a little too compassionate for WH (she says she is praying for him too because he's so far gone right now).

Looking forward to taking charge of my life and not letting the drama hurt me anymore.

YAY! That's EXACTLY what you need right now!

This is worrisome to me NP. You have to make it abundantly clear that as your IM she is there to PROTECT you and lil bean! She is not to allow any fog babble through. She is only to pass along factual details from WH regarding things like finances or seeing DD2. This is an absolute must NP and if you do not feel your IM is up to it then you need a different IM. This is even more important in your sitch with your preganancy reaching the end.

Oh yes, she knows that. I made sure to tell her exactly what she needs to do when filtering communication between him and I. She's been in my situation herself so she understands what I'm going through (she's one of the successful ones though - she and her husband have the happiest marriage ever now).

Glad to hear this NP. This is extremely important. If she falters early on and starts letting fog babble through then you should definitely get another IM right away. The purpose of Plan B is to remove yourself from WH in order to preserve what little love you still have left in your LB. In your case I see an equally important reason of insulating you from the drama so you can focus on the birth of lil bean without the added stress.

Maybe I needed to explain just a little more. I don't think that NP's Plan B schedule needs to change one whit for anything to do with WH, OW, or her kids' visitation schedule. Whether WH has somewhere to stay the first couple nights or not, come Friday night he's in trouble.

Having him leave the house like this is a Godsend. I worry how much more difficult it would be to get him out if he gets to come back at all, even just 2 days.

That's also why I suggested being ready well ahead, so if he gets it into his brain to come back early, NP isn't caught off guard, and can still keep him out of the house.

NP, I agree with your thinking on the finances. Most waywards don't stop paying altogether, and the ones who do usually feel the quick wrath of an angry judge. It doesn't work out so well for them.

You can also print out some of the IM info on here that might be helpful to your IM. It's much easier to start out right than to try and retrofit into a strong position.

Bumped an IM thread 4 ya, NP. "Intermediary training school"

Thanks....I'm going to print that and give it to my IM.

WH just called me, twice in a row. I hit "Ignore" on my phone....and it felt GOOD.

It's better to hit ignore than to risk a lovebuster.

That said, if he calls and you're able to hold up your Plan A, great - talk to him. Do the best Plan A you can right up until he gets the letter.

I had to hit ignore because I really didn't feel like talking to him.

He just texted me though, and said he had his interview with a company up north and it's likely they will be offering him a position up there. Makes things easier if they do, I suppose. I responded as nicely as I could....not as nicely as I would have pre-A though....

Glad to see your plan forming. Yes, it is me that calls POSOW, WF. It makes me feel so good. I just make sure not to say it in front of the kiddos. That's when I use the initials instead.

You are doing GRAND.

He called back and I was able to talk to him very nicely.

He seemed to be making plans and forming ideas of DD and I moving up north WITH HIM if he gets the job. Kept my mouth shut - but this is NOT happening right now. Perhaps if he agrees to all my conditions and makes serious efforts while I'm in Plan B.

And thank you, Scotty. WF also fits my WH's POSOW very nicely.

Good job talking to him. Talk when you can, be aware and avoid talking to him when you might lovebust. Better to miss a Plan A moment than to have a mean ole lovebuster sneak in right at the last.

Do your best for what you can - it's not much longer.

I just need one good vent and I'm done:

I miss my husband. I miss the man who looked at me like I meant the world to him, complimented me, held my hand, said "I love you" at the end of every phone call. I miss the man who stood up for me and supported me when I was down and clapped for me when I was up. I miss the man who was so excited when DD was born and stood there beside me holding my hand in the delivery room the entire labour process. I miss the man who gave us big hugs and said, "Family hug time!" and put pictures of us up in his office. I miss the man who gave me the aisle seat like I want every time we were on a plane together, but let me lean over to look out when we were landing. I miss the man who was excited to be with me and see me. I miss the man who cried at our wedding. I miss the man who took care of me when I had a stomach ulcer, and put cold cloths on my head every time I got sick.

There. Sort of done. I could go on for a while.

I just need to remember this is NOT my husband that I am telling to leave our home.

Still, it sucks. I guess missing that man now is no different from missing him when he's out of the house, because he's already not here.

You're so right. Your true DH has been gone for months, and all you're banishing is the soul-sucking alien who looks quite a bit like DH, except for the empty eyes.

Big hugs for you - I know how hard this is.

Its good you vented this, but I find that thinking this stuff makes me sadder....Your H is gone right now and WH has replaced him....You have to think of it that way, Someday he will be back to H, but it might be too late for us. So for all intents and purposes he is not here right now. WH is NOT H. You are gonna be okay, either way.

Empty eyes is right! That's one of the hardest things when I look in his face these days.

Yeah, they all got them empty eyes...there is a thread on here somewhere about how they all have em.

Empty eyes because they've emptied their souls.....

Just wanted to post my improved Plan B letter. Any other comments or suggestions would be great:

Dearest WH,

I am so sorry our marriage has come to this. I recognize my part in our relationship that created an environment where you became vulnerable to another woman's attentions.

I have learned to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past, and am constantly working to find better ways to resolve conflict between us. I want to create a new life for both of us that meets both our needs and creates a loving home for our children. But we cannot do that until you end all contact with POSOW once and for all, and commit to having her out of our lives completely.

Until then, I hope you will understand when I say that I cannot see you or talk to you anymore. IM has agreed to be our intermediary, and she will help in making it easy for you to see your children, as we discussed. Our only contact should be in the case of emergency about the children.

Please understand my decision to separate from you this way. It is too painful for me to live with you any longer as long as you are also with her and do not want to have a marriage with me. I love you very much, and need to preserve that love so that I will still want to recover our marriage when you end your affair. I ask that until you are ready to end your affair with POSOW and focus on our marriage and family, you leave our home.

The way back home is simple: end all contact; be completely transparent with me with your phone, emails, and time; be truly repentant for the damage you caused; and, commit to rebuilding our marriage.

I look forward to the day when we can begin to rebuild our family and begin the rest of our lives together as a family. I want nothing more than to be your partner through life, and your best friend and confidante in all matters - you have always been mine. We can have a stronger marriage built on trust, love, honesty, and teamwork.

I loved you from the day I met you and I continue to love you right up to this moment. I hope for and look forward to a time when we can begin a new marriage with each other.

Love,
NewPetals

Ummmm, I have to ponder it a bit more but...I would leave out the part about him having to be truly repentent in the conditions, sounds a little too much to me. The come home demands can be more specified when he decides to do what it takes to commit to recovering...

and I am not sure about the first sentence, I think it should be more about your responsiblilty for the marriage itself, not his indescretions(sp)....

See what others say also, but I am thinking on it....



UGGGHHH!!! I wish I could find my Plan B letter!!!!

Thanks stillhere!

I'd like to give it to him within a few days (whenever he returns) so I'm hoping to have it ready by then...

NP, are you ready - legally - for plan B, that was something I struggled with to understand when I was getting ready to transition. I thought plan B and D were close to the same. They are not, but you also need to protect yourself financially and legally.

I just hate the first part that says that you recognize your part in creating an environment to make him vunerable...I am trying to think of something better than that sentence...

NP,

Here is a copy of the first couple of paragraphs of my plan B letter. Maybe that will help.


I have always admired your integrity, caring, and reliability. Your strength has always inspired me. I will remember kindly all the times you have stood by me in bad health, in difficult times with the kids, and in other difficulties in our lives. I will also fondly remember all the fun times in PIB, Vegas, and the Smoky Mountains, the long walks on the beaches in Florida and the Bahamas. But I will mostly remember good times we have had with each other and with the kids. DstepD20 and I have forged a friendship that will last a lifetime. I have also always believed in you, trusted you and loved you.

I am sorry for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OW H's wife possible. Since you continue your affair with his wife; I need to avoid seeing you or talking to you. You may contact me through your mother, my brother, or my lawyer. I ask that you respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must understand the suffering that I have endured because of your continued contact with her, the behavior you have demonstrated, and the choices that you have made that have affected us both and our family. I simply cannot be around you any longer knowing that you continue to see her. I cannot live here under these circumstances

NP, do you have the SAA book, I cant find mine(must be with my letter)....I know that there are sample Plan B letters in there, how do they start, maybe I am just being too picky about the first sentence...I like your letter though, its pretty good....I just know how Waynerds can twist the words you say and that first or second sentence just rubs me wrong....

I am sure others will pop in to give you some advice.

Still, The first few pages of this thread has some sample letters in them. I used the letter from SAA almost exactly and the posters on here still had suggestions about editing. I had to laff, but I did change what they suggested.

Yeah, I think I did it like they did in the book too...I found a link and they do start out the way NP did, but I think I like yours better....and NP you do have to have a DETAILED list of things that are ready if and when WH wants to work on the marriage....So I would have that too.....

NP, I think the letter is good...Scottys changes are good...

I'm with SH, NP. I'd lose anything in the letter that paints you out as less than the wonderful Best Choice that you are. I don't think now's the time to own up to anything that your WH can even faintly pick up on to "blame" you for the A.

I have this list from another thread for some ideas it says it was originally posted by sexymamabear.

REQUIREMENTS TO COMING HOME
Humility

Remorse

Surrender emotionally before me and spiritually before God

Godly sorrow (not fleshly sorrow) (Godly: sorry that I ever had the A & did this to our family. Fleshly: sorry I hurt you)

Authentic repentance

Owns his choices and the consequences they caused (to himself, me, children, extended family, friends, etc.)

Apology for the A and his hurtful actions before and after

Confession & apology to children

Confession to extended family & certain close friends that have confronted him

IC, MC, & Family

Accountability forever to 3 men that I choose

Attend church again

NC Letter

Provide all cell phone & credit card records from this past year

Complete radical honesty about our entire history together

15+ hours together weekly

Pray with me daily

Polygraph

Post Nup agreement that provides for me very well if we ever divorce

Yeah, thats what im thinkin too...nows not the time for that...Waynerds hone in on that stuff and throw it back at ya....

Well, I know I shouldn't have....but I checked WH's email, the last one that I have access to. And, of course, there were messages between them, and he called her "baby." This does not seem like the actions of a man who plans to end his affair before the week is up.

I am moving to Plan B effective NOW.

Is it alright to send him an email with the letter, and ask him to let me know when he will be back so I can make plans accordingly to be MIA?

Yes, but no lb's or feeling in the email....just matter of fact..Please let me know when you will be coming by to pick up your things. Thank you....

No more looking at his emails, you will just cause yourself more unnecessary pain, k?

Text of the email I am going to send him (if it's alright....I don't know if it's advisable??? $LB practically empty right now...) The bolded parts are bits I added because this will be through email, not in person as I planned...



[i]Dearest WH,

After much thought, I have made a decision on the road I need to follow. I am so sorry our marriage has come to this. I recognize my part in our relationship that created an environment where your affair with POSOW was possible.

I have learned better ways to resolve conflict between us. I want to create a new life for both of us that meets both our needs and creates a loving home for our children. We can not do that while you are still in contact with POSOW.

Until then, I have chosen to avoid seeing you or talking to you. IM has agreed to be our intermediary, and she will help in making it easy for you to see your children, as we discussed. Our only contact should be in the case of emergency about the children. Please let me know when you will be back in town and I will arrange to be out of the house and have your bag by the front door. You can return while I am at work to pack up the rest of it � I couldn�t do much because of the pregnancy.

Please understand my decision to separate from you this way. It is too painful for me to live with you any longer as long as you are also with her. I ask that until you are ready to end your affair with POSOW and focus on our marriage and family, you leave our home.

I look forward to the day when we can begin to rebuild our marriage and begin the rest of our lives together. I want nothing more than to be your partner through life, and your best friend and confidante in all matters. We can have a stronger marriage built on trust, love, honesty, and teamwork.

I loved you from the day I met you and I continue to love you right up to this moment. I hope for and look forward to a time when we can begin a new marriage with each other.

Love,
NewPetals

NP-Of course he isn't ready to end his affair this week. He is a typical cake-eater. I keep being told that is good though, because the MB plans DO work on cake-eaters.

Okay, I don't quite understand your question. Aren't you planning on having his things packed with the latter on top?

It is perfectly normal for a wife to ask her husband when he is coming home. You are still in Plan A until he arrives home? Or are you planning on going to Plan B while he is not home? I know you were planning on not letting him back into the house when he returns home. I am sorry, I am confufulled.

Just think of WH as a different person then H...thats what got me through some of it....they are just not the same person...those emails are not from your H!

That email seems just like a Plan B letter.

Oh I almost forgot. Make sure that when you do give WH the Plan B letter(it should be given in printed form as WH will read it more than once), that you also send a copy to WF. You need to add a line at the bottom of the letter for her copy. Mine said, "I know how to make Bampot happy now. I am patient and I will wait." You can come up with a more creative line. I did this one on my own and I know it send the message, but I wish it could have been stronger.

I think that is better.

Then change the locks without telling him, his choice to leave. Are you gonna let him in the house without you, do you think that he will clean you out or what....I just left all my wh stuff on the front lawn...maybe someone can help you pack up all of his stuff so he doesnt need to go into the house alone.

I WAS planning on staying in Plan A until he arrived home. But I find I can't. This is too painful. No more checking his email, no more anything.

As I said, I am Plan B effective right now.

I thought about sending an email to her too. I was thinking more along the lines of "I love my husband and will wait for the man I married to come home. Enjoy the cheating parts of him." Or something to that effect....

I don't think he'll clean me out. There isn't much that's super expensive in the house. He can take his own things, I don't mind that.

So, you are going into Plan B right now? Can you wait until he gets home? Can you text him and find out when he will be coming home? I know it is hard. I was 6 days away from Plan B when my WH went to WF's house and I thought I would DIE. I knew I had an end date. That's all that kept me from throwing his crap out that day.

Will you have someone else there when he gets his things? Is there someone who can help you pack the rest of his stuff so he doesn't even have to go in?

I can't wait. I can't keep talking to him and communicating with him as if nothing is going on, when all I want to do is fall apart. I just had a call from OW H and he said he thought WH was there last night - which means WH is already back in town and just not coming home, avoiding his wife, child, and mother (who is staying with us). Don't have solid proof - but I can believe anything at this point.

I can ask my neighbour to be around when he is taking his things. As for packing - it's unavoidable. because I don't want to get his mom involved, and I don't want to ask my brother to help me because there's so much bad feeling there. I just won't be around when he is. And neither will DD.

Email.....SENT.

If you must start plan B now, is there ANY way that you can have someone move all his things out of the house? This way you give him no options.

I would hold off on PB if you can, I think it is a very important step that you should go into completely ready. Do it and be done with it, no worries about cleaning up loose ends, break all ties in one stroke.

Just my thoughts, they are with you..

NW

Well, since it is sent now, I will tell you that you will get him either coming straight home and trying to talk to you or he will email, text and call you right away.

His Mom should know. Is she still there with you? She could help him pack and be there to get his keys.

He of course texted me right away. But this is what he said:

"Got ur email. Sounds good. Need to meet to sign a separation agreement tho. Will be back wednesday night of thursday morning."

I almost burst into tears right there and then when I got that. I was hoping he'd at least TRY to talk me out of it.

Can I respond and say I'm not signing anything?

Listen, its okay, he has been blind sided by this...his gut first reaction is to bite back...dont worry what he is saying ...right now he feels like you declared war, because you are not putting up with his fence sitting anymore.

I know it hurts...but you are doin good. He prolly thinks that by him saying to sign an agreement and not fighting it, that you will back down. You dont know what he is thinkin, okay? right now he wants both and he wants you to back down so he can continue cake eating, doesnt mean he doesnt want to be with you.

NO...PLAN B STARTS NOW!!!!

Thanks. I needed to hear that. I am at my desk at work about to fall apart.

I sent him a text saying I wasn't signing anything but just let me know when he'll be back in town.

So.....do I really send a copy of that to POSOW??

Oops.

okay...PLAN B STARTS NOW!!!!

Ummm, I dont know, I didnt....I dont see the hurt in it, did someone tell you to?

Your WH may see you PB email as you setting him free. He can now do what he wants, this is a sick feeling but it may be where his head is at.

I would set a specific time for WH to come and get ALL of his belongings out of the house, don't let him dicide when he will come and gather his things.

Sorry to hear of these developments NP. What's done is done. You sent the Plan B letter now you must stay in Plan B. You already broke it by texting him back. Do you want him to think that you are not serious about this? Send a note to your IM and tell her to tell WH that he can leave the sep agreement when he picks up his stuff and you will review it with an attorney. Period. End of story. You made the decision to go to Plan B now you need to stay dark. A poorly executed Plan B is just as harmful as none at all.

Hang in there NP. We are here for you...

Scotty did....??



I don't doubt that this is where his head is. He is that set on being with her.

I am now hearing phantom noises. Keep thinking I hear my phone beep with a new text but it never is. I hope I'm not going crazy on top of everything now.... :S lol

NP doesnt need to hear this right now...We have NO idea what her WH is thinking, good or bad....

Slow down NP.... Take a deep breath. Do your best to be calm and relax. If he texts you again delete it without reading it. You must be strong in Plan B. That takes alot of discipline on your part. If you have anything to communicate to him at all send it through IM now so that it will help establish that is how communication works from this point forward.

Honestly, I don't see much point in sending the letter to POSOW. Others may disagree and can give their opinions but I don't see the point. WH has probably already shown her what you sent him anyway. Don't waste your time and emotions with this.

Right. Deep breaths. And be calm

I am NOT looking forward to being in the half painted house all alone.

You will be fine, just keep posting on here...we are here for you, I have been in your shoes. I didnt recover my M, but I made a lot of mistakes (one of them breaking Plan B!!!!!). After a while you get to kind of like the peace in Plan B...really...

I know - I keep reading posts on here from BS's in Plan B and they seem HAPPY. So I know it's possible. It's hard right now....I will need LOTS of encouragement staying in Plan B. I've never ever EVER stopped talking to WH before or cut contact with him....not in the 10 years I've know him.

I know I am going to get major for this....but I checked his email again. I know he got the email on his BB and it wasn't opened before.....just now he must have gone onto his email and reread the message becuase it's opened now. And he has a bunch unopened from OW (not that it means much, bc he's probably already read them on his BB).

OK! NO MORE CHECKING HIS EMAIL.

NP!!!!

That is two violations within the first 10 minutes of your Plan B?!?! This has no chance of saving the remaining love in your LB if you cannot be disciplined enough to stop this!

NewPetals,

This is CRITICAL to an excellent Plan B. NO MORE CONTACT OF ANY KIND. No checking his email, reading his texts, talking to him, relaying messages through others (except your IM). Seriously honey, if you want to do this RIGHT, you MUST be strong! You can do this. We'll help you. When you get the urge, please come here first and WAIT (at least 5 mins - lol) for someone to respond.

NOW you can concentrate on you and that precious new baby who cannot wait to meet his/her mommy. Let MIL carry the load for you, it's okay to do that, you know? You're not Super Woman!

Resist the enemy... stick to your Plan. The Plans work if you work them to the letter.

Yes, okay. Will find other ways to get over the urge to see what he's doing.

I KNOW that peace will come from this. Right now every small thing is a trigger. It will come.

I will need help being strong.

I am not one to give you 2x4s anyway...but just remember you are just gonna hurt yourself okay? Yes I had a HUGE problem not talking to WH, he was my go to guy for over 15 years before his A....but thats why I stay to help people, I am a good example of what happens without a DARK plan B......My M is not recovered and WH is still with OW....

Talking to WH is gonna do no good....you CANNOT reason with a waynerd, they DO NOT respond to reason....or guilt or 2x4s! All it will do is show WH that you are not serious about your Plan B and that eventually you will talk to him again...also it hurts you when all you do is hang on his every word wondering "what did he mean when he said that?" and it will drive you mad.

Lastly, it will most likely make you lose all the love you have left for him, since waynerds say stupid selfish things while wayward.

Right now PLan B is for your sanity....to work on yourself, spend time with yourself, do things you enjoy and protect yourself from his insanity.

I've got my eye on you young lady.... This doesn't mean to keep checking WH's email but stop posting it on here.

Seriously, if you want this to have any chance of working you must be true to yourself and true to the process. There are no guarantees of the outcome but I can guarantee that if you don't follow the plan properly it certainly isn't going to work......

And she means it this time, NP!

Seriously - keep going. You can do this.

We'll be there with you.

NP,

Ok, no more C with WH. Is your IM ready? I agree you need to update your MIL on what is going on. Remember that you are pregnant with HER grandchild so she will likely be nice to you. I pray she will kick her son's buttocks.

Why don't you start journaling your thoughts, go for long walks with DD and get some naps in while grandma is there to babysit?

IOW, take care of you and the baby. Forget the alien that was abducted by the mothership. He is not your loving H anyway.

I got the wine!

Five more weeks until I can enjoy that wine, sh8126! I plan on bringing it to the hospital with me and celebrating the birth of my child IMMEDIATELY! lol!

Should I tell my MIL tonight? From the way she's acting I sort of get the feeling she wants to stay out of our affairs now... (no pun intended lol)

Yeah, I would talk to MIL tonite....Sorry forgot you couldnt have wine, yet....Oops...Ill only have one glass...

((NP))

Just wanted to chime in with some encouragement. Take care of yourself NP.

Is there any way to block your WHs number from your phone? That way you're not even tempted to talk to him. You could even look into blocking his email so you don't even see them. Force him to only contact you through the IM.

I also agree that he should just leave the sep. agreement when he gets his stuff - no need to actually see him. Seeing you gives him his fix - and he doesn't get to have that anymore.

Take care of yourself and your little bean, NP.

Awwww, in five weeks youre gonna have that beautiful child of yours to help cheer you up...Hopefully your MIL will be a great help to you...Mine was...

I'll go over to lg's thread and tell him to come on over and bring the grill...

Thanks V and sh. I think there must be a way to block his calls. But I get a lot of satisfaction from NOT answering. (if I get too tempted I will make sure to block all contact...)

Now GRILLING I can do! Plan B party on my thread!

NP, barbecue at your house? Oh, I mean thread not house...

lol sure we could do the house too....that way when WH shows up there'll be lots of people around.... !

Okay, Im ready. Wheres the grub?

Ohhhh, noooo...not so fast - you've got to clean the grill - you used it last to grill yourself, remember?

I haven't finished reading all of the posts. I do have to say that it was advised to me on my thread to send a copy of the Plan B letter to POSOW. It is in SAA too. So, if it was good enough for DrH to suggest it, I did it.

It is intended to let POSOW know that your WH didn't leave YOU, that YOU asked him to leave and the extra line at the end is intended to shake up the affair. That was the reason I did it. Sorry, I didn't want to forget what I wanted to say, Carry on.

Yes, I remember.

Yeah, NP, if it says to do it in SAA, then I would send it to POSOW...

YUP

So, could I subject it "A little good news for your day" and end it with "I love my husband, the man I married, who is a good man and good father, and look forward to being with him again. In the meantime, enjoy the cheating part of him!"

IDK if I would even bother, NP......I mean it might throw a little fire in the A though, cause OW to LB...

No, just be short and sweet about it. No cutting him or her down as much as it would feel good to do so.

Yeah, Faithy is right.

Im so ready for a party, NP!! be strong, be DARK. It helps more than you know.

Won't he just get angrier at me for contacting her?

That's what I was thinking too. No cutting down WH. You can cut him down on here all you want, we don't mind.

It doesn't matter YOU WON'T KNOW. PLAN B PLAN B PLAN B.

No expectations. No worries. NO DRAMA.

Weak moment.....Oh God. What if my husband never comes back to me and I never see him again??

We've all had those feelings. What if he did come back and the affair didn't end? AHHHHHHHHH that would be worse.

Yeah, dont think that far ahead right now, NP...Just think, you have a plan and concentrate on that right now...its a battle plan, Plan B....

I second what Scotty said. And a false recovery, like I had, is worse than d-day...

I know. I've been living false recoveries in between every D-Day....

I TRIED to send the email to OW. But every time I started typing her name in I felt physically ill...

Oh no....now I'm sobbing my heart out. And why? Because it started to thunderstorm outside. And WH and I loved thunderstorms.....

NP Don't give up! You might feel that he will never come back, but you know that he has 10 amazing years of good memories of his wife and family! Only an idiot can give up something like that!

I love thunderstorms too, but it sucks for our cookout! Okay okay, no more joking, but I want you to pull yourself up in a few minutes, 'kay? np

You poor thing, being pregnant and those hormones dont help....{{{{{{{NewPetals}}}}}}...You are gonna be okay!

You have so much support over here NP - take comfort in that. You can do this. No more contact with WH!

Awww, hugs, NP. It's sooo normal to feel this way.

Honestly though, the most difficult thing you'll likely have trouble getting over should he come back is the timing of his A. Right now the pregnancy hormones are in full force directing you to bond with your baby, toddler and H. A few months after baby is born you'll be in full protection mode.

Even if your H comes back and is repentant and the perfect spouse, you'll look at your baby, feel protective, and look at your husband as some type of alien. The timing of A's during pregnancy and post-partum make a mom question if she can entrust the care of her child to her husband as a parent.
It's so damn sick and twisted.

As wives we can take the personal betrayal. But to think that our husbands could do this at a most sensitive time, when we needed love and support as the mother of his helpless baby (born or unborn), it just boggles the post-partum mind. Our post-partum brains process it as a betrayal of our baby(ies) as well as of ourselves.

I'm glad that you are doing Plan B. While there is still love in your bank currently, there will come a time after baby is born that his actions will be/have been a practical deal killer. I think it's better for you to go NC because it will be *less* for you to get over emotionally in the future, regardless of the outcome with the M.

As far as MIL, she seems a little off to want to stay out of it. Ummm, she has a lot to lose if you and her son go your separate ways. I can't believe she can stay at your place and not have a problem with his behavior. If that were my son, I'd have to be telling him to get his butt home where it belongs. Just saying.

Don't share too much with her. If her presence is a block to Plan B, then tell her to go stay at a motel.

As far as WH's belongings, rent a storage unit, pack his stuff, and have your brother or friend move it to the unit.

Call your atty so you can safely maneuver through a court documented separation. Get all agreements filed with the court, especially child support and child visitation. If you legally can, get a "no paramours" clause put in the agreement.
Often, US and Canadian courts will not allow COM around AP's while the parents are still M. They at least have common sense there...see if that's the case in your province.

See, your goal is to remove yourself as that delicious piece of tasty cake your husband enjoys. In doing a dark Plan B, OW will then have to meet all of your WH's ENs. You will be able to focus more on you and your life, without his insensitive intrusions in your daily business.

Also, you won't be available for OW to take a stand against. It won't be OW and WH against you anymore. He won't be able to complain to her about you. She won't be able to give him sympathy.

Her goal is to make a happy blended family. (This is to ease WH mind of the fear of losing his children to you.) If your province disallows contact with paramours, that is going to thwart her plans, at least while you're M, but separated from WH. It puts pressure on their fantasy. You want the pressure off of you and on OW. kwim?

Stay strong and use your IM. It's going to hurt worse early on. But you will get through. You've done great so far. ((((Hugs))))

NP, here is a thought that might help you keep a deep, dark Plan B:

When your WH can't see or contact you and when you don't respond to any effort he makes to communicate directly with you, his sense of entitlement will greatly upset him. Since he can't see or talk with you, who do you think is going to get the brunt of his frustration? Yep---WF!

She may be sympathetic to him at first...BUT, after a while, she will become annoyed at his anger and frustration over not being able to see or talk with you. She will start thinking, "WHY is he so upset over not seeing NP? If he loves me so much, he should be delighted that he no longer has to deal directly with her! Does he still have feelings for NP? Does he still love her?" She will get sick of hearing about NP, NP, NP! She will then, most likely, start lovebusting him. They will start fighting over YOU!

Hang tight! Stay pitch-dark, and YOU will start feeling better! It's the only way!

Wow, NP you have had a long, hard, draining, and exhausting afternoon.
Everything you are feeling is normal, the fears you have are normal; and its OK to feel those things, just stay dark.

You sound like me and my WH; we were best friends and turned to each other for everything - until POSOW stepped inappropriately in and then the alien came.
I still have the same fears; I secretly hoped that plan A and B would end the A and he would come running back and life would be great again.

I have read so many threads, read SAA, read the material and the newsletters here, received advice; but still never really accepted what Pln B was about until Mark posted this on my thread the other day - I will copy and paste for you to read. I also have to re-read it every day to remind myself what and why I am in Pln B.
I hope this helps...

Missy,

Plan B is not designed to do anything to end the affair. It is designed to let you learn to live again and survive until the affair ends.

And it will end in all probability...

95% of affairs implode all by themselves within two years.

So Plan B gives you time to get through withdrawal from him, learn to be a whole person again and salvage enough of what is left in his account in your Love Bank so that you don't hate him by the time that happens.

A dark Plan B sometimes hastens the demise of the affair by stopping the meeting of any ENs that you might be meeting for him. Usually an affair partner only is able to meet a portion of the ENs that a WS requires and unless the AP turns out to be one of those rare people who can adapt quite rapidly, the PEA rush wears off in a year or so and the incompatibility shows itself and Love Busting starts taking it's toll until the "relationship" simply dies a natural death.

Affairs end for the same reasons that they are possible. Two selfish, self absorbed, self-centered people seldom end up with a sustainable relationship. The reasons to have an affair are selfish reasons and the affair partners can't really provide what each other needs long term. Coupled with the fact that there is no history together, which at first draws them together, means that they really have not very much invested in each other or a relationship with each other. The less that is invested, the less likely it is that the relationship can last.

So that's the technical side of it...

Plan B is for YOU, Missy. It is so that YOU can have some sort of life that is not defined by his waywardness and the drama that follows from that. It gives YOU the chance to create some peace, some personal space and start to find some joy in life once more.

There is not a lot of point in trying to figure out what he is doing since none of it makes any sense anyway. If he was doing what made sense, he would be with you right now trying to show you how much you mean to him. The thing is, a wayward spouse only considers their own selfish desires which change like the winds... He is an addict, Missy. All that means anything to him at all is his next fix. He'll get it from you if you give it to him. If you cut him out of your life entirely, he will have to get everything from his AP. She's not nearly as equipped to provide that as you are so in time he will realize that.

Then the only question will be if you have enough love left for him to do the really hard work of recovery or if you will have decided that it is time to move on yourself without him. In a couple of years you can make a rational decision about that because it will give you enough time to stop reacting to the constant pain of his hurtful behavior.

Either way, if he returns or not, Plan B lets you become stronger, more sure of what you want and what you need and allows you to heal enough that you won't be deciding our of desperation.

Mark


{{{{{NP}}}}}

Thanks everyone. DD wanted to call him tonight to say goodnight. I dialled for her (had no intention of speaking or listening) but of course WH didn't pick up his phone. Whether he was doing that becuase of my PB letter or not, I have no idea. Could be just his selfishness as well.

I will stick to the Plan B. I was SO TEMPTED to call him earlier to talk about stuff but I held off. I miss him like crazy...and it's only been a few hours....

I hope you all are right about OW not being able to meet his needs. I provided lots of EN's for him, right until today, and physical needs as well. I guess I will never know though......I will work on just recovering and overcoming my addiction to WH myself.

My counsellor says it doesn't help to hate OW because it only gives her power over me and my emotions - and she doesn't know I'm hating her, it's only hurting me. I guess that's true. But I still hate her.

Anger is a very healthy reaction to OW. It's what you DO with the anger that determines if it is unhealthy or not. Stew for a while, you're entitled, but don't do it forever.

Day 2 of NC with WH begins. Sad. I had dreams about him all night long.

Ummm, I dont know how you could possibly NOT hate OW....The first few months I had the dreams a lot too, now just occasionally...It will get better, I promise.

Yep, dreams during Plan B, completely normal. As Neak told me on my thread, WH is dreaming about you too. Now when I have dreams of WH, it is usually that I am talking to him about what he needs to do to recover and I am getting mad at myself for breaking Plan B to talk to him. Isn't it funny how the mind works?

You can do this. You know it will get better. It's a withdrawal of your own that you are dealing with right now. There will come times when things will trigger you and you may start crying over nothing. I started crying one time at work, because someone was buying a pair of shorts and I thought, "WH would like these shorts." What a silly trigger but it was plainly because my thoughts had to adjust to him not being there anymore. I spend 18 years thinking about WH first. You'll get through it. We will all help you through this.

Block him before you're tempted - phone, email, everything. Change numbers and email if you have to. You don't need to know how many times he tries to get through.

Make the decision now instead of when you are right there, staring at the phone/unopened email/text, wavering. It's your own EP.

I already blocked his emails. I am still trying to figure out how to block his phone number - sure there's a way but I just got a new phone... Less tempted to call him or email him today. I feel like he's waiting for me to cave in and call like I always do, and then he can ignore me and have the upper hand. BUT - I am going to stay dark as night.

Chatted with my MIL about it last night. She is completely disgusted with his actions and says she is sorry she "hatched" such a person. She said she was going to send him a long email telling him exactly what she thinks of him and OW (who she wants to do bodily harm to and never wants to meet or see). It was nice that she was so supportive.....and at the same time I feel so sad because I know that no matter what, WH is only listening to himself right now.

And....I DO hate OW still. It will be a LONG time until I can stop hating her. If I ever see her she better run.

NP, I am glad you have MIL for support! Its ok and normal to hate OW at this point. In fact I still hate the xOW and hope some day I can find enough peace to just not care about her at all.

Every time you are tempted to contact your WH mentally picture him waiting for you to be weak. Then picture yourself as Wonder Woman, cape and all.

I love the MIL's that your MIL is so supportive. Be careful though because she is the mother bear. My MIL was very supportive, but started getting on my case for not letting her daugter back in the house when the MIL thought she should come back. It was hard to tell her that I was not ready, I had my plan, and that everything will be fine. It caused a little tension between us, but overall she still did not condone her daugters behavior.

Support here is great, and so is your family. My family was always there for me, and close friends too. Everyone has different advice. I had to weigh it and pick and choose what would be the best advice for what I wanted to do. Even if they gave bad advice, that I would thank them for then ignore, it was still good to have some support.

Do the hard part, then fall into your safety net of support from people here, your family, and your MIL. They are the ones that will help you get through this.

That is what is stopping me from calling!

I am borrowing a small piece of Neak's red cape of power....which will hopefully grow into a full cape....

I am glad your feeling a little better today NP. But listen to Wheels, be careful with your MIL.
My MIL started out supportive of what I was doing in terms of MB's. She then became "neutral", now she and my SIL's have not called me once to just see how I am doing, and I feel is now starting to slightly support WH and his horrible decisions.
MIL and SIL's have also not called DstepKids to see how they are doing; even though they know and realize that the kids are very upset about this.

I felt very hurt by the way my in-laws have treated me, these are the people I thought were my family. But WH is their "blood", and blood WILL always be thicker than water.

I just want to make sure you are prepared for all the fallout that will occur because of WH choices.

Unfortunately it makes everything all the harder, but I feel if your prepared, then once again unlike myself, it is not as big a blow.

I am so sorry you are hurting, I know only too well how you feel right now. Today I am struggling with wanting to call WH at work, not talk, hang up the phone, all just to hear his voice. So here I am posting instead, then I am going to work out to get my mind off of this crazy idea....

Hang in there, there are moments when it is definitely easier to be in a dark Pln B, and then there are moments when you don't think you have the strength to continue. That you want to break the silence and then beg him to return. That is when I come here, to regain the strength to stick to the plan I have laid out. To continue to recover myself.

Just know NP's that you are not alone, all your feelings are normal, and that this is so very difficult. But you have people who truly wish the best for you and will support you on this forum.

When you guys feel the need to call or text WH, just try and think that what you are doin when you tell him you miss him, tell him he is an idiot or just to have contact....is actually the exact OPPOSITE effect that you want to have...each time you do it you are actually ruining your chances of R...It helps me a little.

That is the only thought that keeps me from actually doing it. And I have to come here to read and remind myself of that.

Yes, I agree. I am being careful with regards to my MIL, because even though she is supportive right now I know she will always love her son. It's nice to hear right now, that I am not the only one who doesn't recognize WH as he is now, though.

Whenever I think of calling him or texting him (there are so many questions I want to ask...how is he? Did he get the job up north? How's his work going? etc) I just think of calling and him not picking up so he can feel in power still....and me feeling like crap all over again...

I heard from her husband that OW is stressed to the nines today. I secretly hope it's bc of stuff between her and WH. But I don't really want to know.

NP, can you go and do something for yourself today. Maybe get a pedi...
Don't bring your phone.

I'd LOVE to...but I'm stuck at work all day.... :P Unfortunately. At least it's a distraction.

My phone has been silent all day. He's not calling. Which (and I have to remind myself of this) is a GOOD THING.

I feel like I'm stuck in some kind of crazy game of chicken...to see who backs down first.

I looked at WH's FB and saw he was on his way " home.". I shouldn't have looked - now I'm stuck between not wanting him to come home, wanting him to come home so I can tell him to leave, and wanting him to come home begging to save our marriage.

I also wonder if he did that on purpose - so he could go straight to OW's house and I would KNOW when he didn't come home.

I really should not have looked. It was not very Plan Bat all.

What do I do if he walks in the door? Confront him, or stay in bed until morning and get out without seeing him?

Trust me--Neak didn't always have red cape of power. She didn't have enough red fibers to weave into a thong. The cape GREW with time, practice, and effort...and so can yours.

tl

3:15 am and WH is not here. Now, I KNOW that for Plan B, this is a good thing. For the part of me that misses him and stil just wants him back, this is a very sad thing, because it means without a doubt, he is at OW's house.

This is what I get for breaking Plan B and looking at his facebook.

What you are feeling is perfectly normal, and will get better with time, I promise....and I doubt he did anything on purpose to make you figure he is at OW house.....Waywards are selfish, what he is thinking is "me me me me me". I remember that once my WH said to me "You think I am trying to hurt you on purpose, and I promise you I am not."

He was being truthful I am sure, but my excruciating pain was just an unfortunate side effect of his selfish choices. He really just didnt care....You gotta stop looking at FB...I know with me when I know for a fact that he is with OW, It hurts soooo much worse than just not knowing at all....

You need to protect yourself and to do that you need to not know what he is doing or you are gonna have a really really really hard time, okay? Hang in there NP.

DESPERATE for advice!

I didn't change the locks. I thought he'd come while I was out, leave, and I could get them changed this weekend.

So this morning when I was feeding DD breakfast, who should wander in but POSWH. The first thing he says to me is, "So, ready to work on the marriage?" I said, "Are you?" and he said, "Yes." So naturally I asked where he was last night. And of course, he spent the night at POSOW's "saying goodbye."

I told him I didn't know, that it made me sick that he spent the night with her, and pushed him away when he tried to hug me as I was leaving for work. He asked me what I needed from him and I couldn't even speak.

When I was leaving, he said, "When you're ready to get over the attitude, I'll be here to listen." THAT made me think.....has he really changed? Is he still trying to get power here?
Part of me wants to kick him right out and never speak to him again. But, a conflicting part of me (I never seem to have my emotions straight these days!) wants to give him a list of requirements and see what happens.

What do I do???????? Help!!

Schedule an IMMEDIATE session with Steve Harley.
For BOTH you and WH.

Let Steve develop a plan for recovery.

You must do this right. And I would want STEVE leading the way.

NP,

We all hope that your M works out, especially for the little ones. Please, please, make sure he isn't playing you. I thought I read on your thread that someone was concerned about a FR until after the little one is born. I really think his motives are suspect, especially after he spent the night with OW.

I hope you know that you are strong, a good person and don't deserve this. Think really really hard at your next steps.

It is a good idea to call the Harleys, yourself only for now! Don't let him in the house, tell him to stay elsewhere that you need your space and have to have time to "figure things out".

Do it for yourself and your kids.

Hugs! (PS, your WH=non-stop drama, is this the way you want to live?)

BA

Come on NP.

This "spending the night" is NOT a deal breaker or a plan breaker. Its hardly their first rodeo.

You're not fully committed to Plan B at this point. So I guess I would throw out a few requirement right off the bat. First one being a session with Steve Harley today or tomorrow.
Then let Steve lay out the no-contact-for-life idea, and the precautions WH will have to take to make it safe for you.
Let Steve protect you.

Steve will also be able to tell you if WH is sincere and ready to do the work.

I think a session with Steve is a great idea. Especially if he is able to discern whether WH is sincere or not - because I AM worried about a FR with the baby so close.

I know it's not their first time together - hardly! But....to DO that, and then RIGHT AFTER come waltzing back in the house and expect that I will just shut my eyes to the fact that he JUST slept with her and is now asking me to make the marriage work? It seems so ... contradictory....

It is. But do you want to save your marriage or do you want to be right?

Please, please, please, call the Coaching Center and get that set up ASAP. They will be able to flesh out pretty quickly if WH is just playing you. If he is unwilling to do whatever they say, then you'll have your answer and it should be right back to Plan B.

Agree with others to call Steve Harley. Make it clear to Steve that you are late in your preganancy and alot of emotional upheavel or a FR could have incredibly serious consequences.

NP...I'm sorry but I don't believe your WH for a second. He wants to keep cake eating. He just got his fix of POSOW a few hours ago. He wants to make you think he is going to work on the marriage now so he can get his fix of you. He's saying these things because you have forced him to see that you are done living in this situation with your Plan B letter. He is doing everything he can to calm you down and try to return you to the status quo which allows him to keep cake eating.

If he is serious about recovery then he should immediately start doing the heavy lifting to make this happen. Pay special attention to his actions and not his words.

Just make that call to Steve and get his advice. Personally, I have a bad feeling but I certainly hope I am wrong.

ms, this is my EXACT worry. To be honest, I have a hard time believing him too. The last thing I want is a FR.

What sort of heavy lifting should I be expecting from him? I have a list of requirements .... is that enough?

Seeing him this morning knowing where he'd been made me feel physically ill, like throw-up ill....

Yes, I agree....

NP,

I have been reading your thread from the outset but you have been receiving good advice and I had nothing of value to add. I am weighing in, now, because I don't want you to go through a False Recovery. I am the Queen of False Recoveries - no, not really, just the victim of my now XWH's and OW's lies - and had too many to count. I agree with the others - PLEASE call and set up an appointment with Steve Harley right now! Tell the receptionist you are at a critical point because of your pregnancy and the most recent occurences that you would like an appointment AS SOON AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. Do this before leaving work, today, so that when you go home tonight, you can tell your WH "the plan." You will know his sincerity the minute you tell him because he will agree or put up a fight. If he agrees and isn't really sincere, Steve will see right through it and call your WH on it. If he puts up a fight, its because he really isn't willing - at this point in time - to do whatever it takes to recover your marriage.

BB
D-Day: 05/06/01
Multiple false recoveries over 3 years
Divorced: 05/04
Doing exceedingly well!

I am putting all my faith in MB right now. I see no other way to ensure that there will not be an FR.

I will call Steve and set up the appointment. At this point I am completely willing and wanting him to lead the way - nothing else has worked so far.

Deep breaths.

Should I also give him my list of requirements, or wait until after talking to Steve?

Ummmm, I would probably wait til you talk with steve about them and your plan for R...that way you have all your ducks in a row...I am trying not to, but I cannot help but be a little excited for you.

Personally NP, I am alot more concerned about you and lil bean right now then I am about the recovery of your marriage. You should be too! Continued ongoing drama and a potential FR is way more stress then you should take on at this point. If the marriage is meant to recover then that can still be worked on in the coming months ahead. Even this latest development was another incredibly cruel and selfish act by WH. If he really does want to recover the marriage then it is time for him to put you and lil bean first even if that means staying away for a while.

Talk to Steve ASAP and get his advice.

I'm sorry for what you are going through, NP. These last weeks before giving birth should not be a sad, stressful period. I agree that you need to speak with Steve Harley. Have your list of requirements ready so that you can discuss them and tweak them with SH.

Set the bar HIGH. You have a tiny little unborn person counting on you. I would tell him you want a polygraph. The possibility of having all of their lies exposed to the light of day is sometimes enough to bring out the truth or at least send him running for the hills and thus avoid a FR.

You are on my MB prayer list.

God's Blessings,

Say

I am going to do two things:

1) Set up an appointment with Steve Harley. If he balks...well then his bag is still by the door.

2) Ask him exactly why he has decided he wants to work on the marriage, and see what his answer is. If it's "I want to be around for the new baby," I'm tempted to say that's not enough. That's what he's said for a while now and it hasn't stopped him texting/emailing/screwing OW.

Ok first of all sleeping with the other woman and coming home the next morning and asking you "if you are ready to work on the marriage" DOES NOT sounds like he is remorseful, DO NOT LET HIM MOVE BACK HOME! This will only hurt you further, tell him that you are not ready for him to move back home just yet, tell him he has to prove himself FIRST! That means he has to do the following:

1. Writing a NC letting to the OW (that you approve of)
2. Going to MC with SH
3. Then he has to meet every boundary to make sure he will not contact the other woman and do it again!

If he meets those conditions then have him move back home! Otherwise let him live with a close male friend.

I've been thinking about this all day. I can't trust what WH is saying to me right now. As Sapphire said, what he did last night shows no remorse.

I want to send him this email but I wanted to run it by the board first:

If you had come straight home last night and said you wanted to work on our marriage, I would have agreed. Instead you went off, blatantly spent the night with her, and then come rolling home and ask to work on the marriage. Like I should overlook the fact that you just spent the night f**king another woman.



That was one straw too much, WH.



Before I am even willing to consider working on this, you better figure out exactly what you're willing to do to fix what you've done. And in the meantime, you don't stay at our house. For myself, I ask three things:



- you write a letter to POSOW expressing that you will have no contact with her again, period. This letter will be approved and sent by me to her. Then you block her from your Facebook, email, and phone. And if she contacts you, you TELL ME immediately without responding to her.

- you participate in a marriage counselling session with a counsellor of my choice

- you give me complete access to all of your emails, phone calls, texts, everything, and you don't ever try to hide things in them from me.





Obviously it's up to you if you want to go straight back to POSOW, but if you are honest about wanting to work on our marriage, I hope you won't. You can stay with [your close male friend] or drive to your mom's.



You can leave after DD goes to bed tonight.

NP

DO NOT PUSH SEND!!!!

You got it off your chest here. Now, call Steve Harley and set up an appointment. Do not give WH an answer either way until you counsel with Steve Harley. Until then, tell him you need time to process this all and you need help from someone who is an expert at recovering marriages after affairs. Until that takes place, you cannot give him an answer.

I called and left a message to set up an appointment. So far haven't heard back from them yet.

What if he is unavailable to talk to us until after the long weekend? I don't know if I can handle being around WH all weekend....

Ditto what Brits Brat said.

Your Taker is pissed. Yup.

Any sort of telling him off here is just shooting YOURSELF (not wayward him) in the foot!

Do not let your ego take over at this juncture.

Clear headed. Calm, collected response. Keep the Taker talk within as you work through this point of the situation.

You have our sympathy for his selfish, fogged, cakeeating at you. We know the angst but you are bigger than this event!

Then I'm glad I posted here first....was on the verge of pushing Send when I stopped myself and made myself turn to MB first!


Should I ask him to leave until we have talked to Steve?

I am not sure if you should ask him to leave, I did that a few times and each time WH lied about where he was staying and went straight to POSOW.
I do agree with everyone else - WH is not remorseful and is not ending the A.
??? Your best advice is going to come from S. Harley; personally I would be heading to Pln B.
Sorry

{{{{{NP}}}}

I think this is good advice. If NP doesn't hear back from the coaching center tonight, could she still suggest WH stays w/ the close male friend until she can reach a decision?

I hate that WH (does he have a wayward name yet, BTW? ) got in the house and that he got his NP fix. I agree w/ the others that, at this point, NP, you need to be looking at his actions. And clearly, his actions of late have NOT demonstrated enough remorse or "getting it" to jeopardize you and/or your children w/ a WS or a FR.

I would also recommend you finish tying up any loose ends related to entering Plan B. Even if Steve/Jennife decides you don't need it at this point, I don't think it hurts to have your ducks in a row while you wait to hear back from the coaching center.

I think that's part and parcel of the whole fighting the A. I think it's either an almost guaranteed FR if he stays home (or unrepentant cake-eating, most likely both), or it's running the risk of him increasing his time w/ OW while imposing consequences and putting strain on the A.

What happened to Plan B? Isn't this a typical reaction from a WS? Doesn't sound like he took it seriuously especially since he was with the OW the night before and now he wants to reconcile?

I think you should continue with Plan B until you talk to S. Harley. And change the locks today

IS this a typical reaction from WS? So ask him to leave? I was leaning towards that.

I am curious about what made him suddenly change his mind, after that text two days ago when he was perfectly willing to separate. I'm hearing things from OW H about how SHE is suddenly trying to get him back and work on their marriage too.

But I don't know if R talk at this point is a good idea - or if I should just keep my mouth shut and wait until we talk to the Coaching Center.

I know for sure no decisions on my part will be made tonight.

My WH was wishy washy about leaving, didnt know about MB and he was cake eating galore, then I found MB....He left, Plan B and he never looked back....So you are lucky to have found MB now...I would wait for steve before you talk about any R stuff...

Something tells me they've figured out some way to take it further underground.

I'm telling ya, Karma, after everything that's happened it would take a miracle for me to believe the words coming out of his mouth right now. It's why I'm very leery and really taking this process slow. I REALLY don't want a FR. Heck, after he did that last night I'm almost at a point where I don't want a Recovery, period!!

I will keep my mouth shut on the R talk then.

Heading home from work now. I used to be so excited to get home and see him and DD and tonight I'm dreading even seeing him. I might throw up.

Sorry {{{{NP}}}}} but at least you KNOW that he might just be blowing smoke out of his (you know what). Thank goodness for MB and its wonderful caring posters. They are awesome and we are all here for you, K?

Wow, that sounded like I was tooting my own horn, I really wasnt....Its just a good mix of people on here and you are lucky you found it so early.

OK NP, he needs TO LEAVE THE HOUSE! He is just getting the fix from you, you are pulling the strings here not him! You have to decide whether or not when he can come back home, let him go to a male friend of yours and talk to him so he can let you know that he is actually staying there and NOT with the OW!

Gotta be brave, but if you truly want a REAL recovery then he has to prove him self! And to me it doesn't look that way. You can start with Harley while he is not living there, if he can prove to you that he is willing to go to MC while living with his friend, then maybe you got a chance!

While he is gone take care of yourself, still be in plan B until you are ready!

Hi NP, I have been following your thread and the latest turn of events has stuck a cord with me. I am not an MB expert (far from it) but I just wanted to offer a different perspective on your WH staying at OW�s house last night.

This is based on my own experience. I�ll try not to make it long, but just a little background first.

After FWH 7 month A and 1 month after a FR I decided to go to Plan B. (FWH had decided 100% that he wanted OW told me so in front of our MC). FWH was staying away from home during the week on company paid accommodation and was coming and going at home as he pleased. At the same time I went to Plan B his company paid accommodation ended so he had to find somewhere else to live.

I would not let him in our home and because he couldn�t get an apartment straight away and had no friends or family that he could stay with he went and stayed with OW for 3 nights.

After 3 nights with OW and 1 night in his new apartment he came home and asked me if I would give him another chance. Needless to say I was very weary and not even sure I wanted R. I did not let him back in the house until he had meet all of my conditions

Early in R I was still extremely effed off about those 3 nights. All I could think was if he really loved me, if he really wanted to be with me why was he with her.

10 months later I now understand that those 3 nights he spent with OW were pivitol in his changing his mind. He got time to think about what it was going to be like living in her world. He had time to really understand how is world was going to change. He has told me that it was at that time he realised he had lost his best friend and his relationship with his children would be changed forever. When he new he could no longer have his cake and eat it he decided it was me he wanted.

Maybe your WH spent the night with OW and thought about you the whole time. Maybe he was using her because he stupidly thought he had nowhere else to turn. Maybe the fantasy is dying.

It has been a rocky road but 10 months later those 3 nights don�t mater anymore.

My only suggestion is that you don�t let what your WH did last night cloud your judgment. If you follow the great advice you have been getting and decide to R that one night is nothing compared to the happy years you have had with your H and the happy years you could have in the future.

OKAY! Wow, what a night.

Went home and talked to WH last night. We didn't delve into anything too deeply, and I think that was best - stay away from possibly fighting about what's been going on. He opened up a little, and I could tell he was really making himself talk to me instead of shutting off, which was an improvement. The oddest thing was - it was like talking to my husband that knew from a year ago, before the whole affair. I had forgotten what it was like to talk to that man. He complimented me on the new way I've been wearing my make up (well, by new I mean, the last 1-2 months, so goes to show you....). The way he looked at me was like he was truly seeing me for the first time in months and months. He asked if he could stay in our bedroom last night (which is huge - he's been out of there for months and not wanting to move back in). I kept quiet for a long time and when I finally said okay, his eyes teared up. He said when he went to her place a couple nights ago, they didn't have sex (?? - still doubt this) but they said goodbye and talked.

I asked him why he had decided to work on our marriage. He said he wanted to come home for his family, and because he felt he had never given our marriage the honest chance it deserved, and he was sorry, and wanting to give it that chance.

OW H called me this morning and we talked for a long time. She is really trying to recover their marriage, it seems, and even asked for my email to send me an apology (he didn't give it to her and I'm still questioning whether or not I even want to see it). If she is really trying, I ALMOST feel sorry for her, because I know OW H is at a place where he is really not willing to try at all.

I still have so many doubts and questions and a HUGE lack of trust. I am waiting to do anything more until we talk to Steve (have an appointment on Monday). I decided to let him stay until then.

I really hope I'm not setting myself up for a FR here. I don't want to consider myself in recovery until we have talked to Steve.

Take this time to really review what you think you will need as requirements for R. Run them by Steve, the board, or just in your head to try and determine what your particular R needs.

NC letter (I think this is a must, as does, well, MB )
A polygraph?
Move, etc.?

Those sorts of things. Also, until you see demonstrable actions indicating your WH is getting it, guard yourself well. Protect your feelings, your plans, and your family.

I would say HECK NO to OW contacting you. Her apology is garbage. It's to assuage her own guilt, and to get another fix - contacting you in the very least, or hoping it will open a door to your WH.

This seems too easy, you know?

One more thought: do NOT let up on your WH. If he exhibits anything you find telling or that concerns you or that shows he is NOT protecting you and the M, you need to call him on it. ASAP. Keep his feet to the fire in that respect. It will take some time, if he is truly defogging and means it, before he is able to do this mostly on his own. Until then, let him know you expect - and deserve - no less than 100,000%.

Here is what you need to do to protect yourself. Set down some conditions if he is to stay

1. Get all of his passwords, emails, FB, MS, etc. I would block facebook and myspace.
2. Let him know he is not allowed to delete any messages on his phone, if he does you will find out from the phone bill.
3. Write a NC letter, even if he said goodbye to the other woman it HAS to be hand written with your approval, stamped and mailed.
4. He has to let you know exactly what he is doing every min of the day, to check up on him.
5. Have him come home for lunch instead out with his friends or at work.

These are just some example that wheels and I are doing to protect our marriage, if he agrees to the condition and not argues then you will know that you will be in a REAL recovery. Even then, I would still be snooping, don't let your guard down. I asked my husband if he still checks everything and he said "yes!" I gave him a big hug and a kiss! I don't want him to stop, there should be no secrets in a marriage.

This sounds very encouraging, NP! I SO hope he isn't playing you! Be optimistic, yet cautious.

THANK YOU, everyone! I was worried that it was the wrong step to not ask him to leave....but yes, I am hopeful but extremely cautious and suspicious at this point.

I never thought of the letter from OW being a way to assuage her own guilt. But it makes a LOT of sense. She even asked her husband to send me some links to a website called Divorce Busters or something! All ways to make herself feel better. I almost feel like I want to see an apology so I can sneer at it, but I KNOW this will not make me feel better.

After I talk to Steve, I am going to hand WH a list of requirements. A NC letter will be a definite must, as well as passwords, etc. I am also going to ask him to pray with me every night. My mom always said "The couple that prays together stays together!" and I feel like God has really been lacking in our marriage (obviously). And he has to pick up his phone EVERY time I call him. Unless he's in the gym, and in that case I need to KNOW he's there and not somewhere else. There are a few more I have written down too, but I think those are the main ones.

I'm really excited to counsel with Steve!

GOOD for you NP! What wheels and I have been doing every night is we read our scriptures and pray together saying a couples prayer, then after we say a personal prayer in our heart.

Remember NP, these are extraordinary precautions that HE must be willing to take. Please ask Steve about how to convey these requirements to your (F?)WH without sounding like a momma/warden. You want him to do these things because he WANTS to do whatever is necessary to restore your marriage.

I don't think I'm saying this very well, maybe someone else can help me express this.

Anyway, here's a very good article from Dr. H. that discusses EPs...

Recovering from Infidelity - Extraordinary Precautions

Here's one of mine, while I'm thinking about it: I reserve the right to ask FWH to take a photo on his cell phone of where he is and immediately send it to me. We're recovered but I still do it, just so he knows that I will ask him at random times to do so.

He had a work function in the evening not too long ago (his A was with a former co-worker, in case you don't know my story) - I asked him to send me a photo of the room and his BOSS, LOL! He did it! The nifty thing is that I'm sure his boss knows why Mr. Bliss wanted to take a picture of him, and approves that I am being a proactive W.

Sooner or later these "Requirements" are adopted by the WS as personal boundaries for the FWS to affair proof the marriage. I thought that they were "demanding" love busters, but they changed into personal boundaries. They are also your needs that you can convey to your WH that he needs to satisfy in order for you two to build honesty and trust in a relationship.

And do I reciprocate? Should he have access to all of my emails, phone, etc?

I like that - that they become personal boundaries. And I REALLY like the sending a photo from his phone idea! I don't think WH would object to that one - he sent me a pic from his phone while he was up north to prove he was up there and not at her house, and posted pics on FB on his way home (but then obviously I knew he spent the night at her place...sigh....). I DO need to find a way to "demand" them without sounding demaning, KWIM?

Thank you for all the positive comments - this is lifting my spirits like you can't believe!

OH...and another thing he said that makes me hopeful - I asked him about that Hawaii trip he booked. He said he had tried to call them about it and they couldn't find a record of it, so he's not even sure it booked properly. Anyway, he also asked for my itin for our Disney cruise that I booked for DD, l'il bean, and I in Jan, so that he could book himself on it, and cancel the Hawaii trip if it DID book.

Yes it is reciprocal. I would not tell him about this site until you are ready though. In the meantime let him in on everything you do. It is part of being open and honest.

Also think about POJA. Sapph and I have been practicing this to a good extent. It really gets rid of a lot of resentment on both sides, and reduces LB's.

I'm so happy for you! I know there is a long road ahead but I'm encouraged by what has happened for you! Good job using MB method and taking the advice given here. You are an inspiration.

NP-You WILL of course have to follow personal boundaries of your own. Remember, you are at a GREATER risk of having an affair YOURSELF now that WH has had one. Doesn't mean you will, you just have a HIGHER risk. Also, a lot of the boundaries are things that ALL married couples should follow anyways.

There is one place where you will not be O&H and what you will not share with him and that is about your evidence that you have had and your snooping. These things aren't part of the POJA either.

I am glad that you will be counseling with Steve. I haven't done so myself, but I have heard nothing but great things(about Jennifer too). When my WH says he is going to want to come home, my first thing to do will be to call the coaching center.

I am glad that you are happy. I hope all of the best for you.

It is encouraging that he is talking the talk.

He will be tempted to contact her even if he is sincere about breaking off from her. The withdrawal from the affair is tough stuff and either he or she would want to get a hit, a fix.

But, even if he is not sincere and taking it deeper......you are being shown that he does have feelings for you. He wants you (even if he also wants her). That is a positive you can build on.

That, plus direction from the coaches plus vigilance of it going underground even deeper and you have a good chance here.

I will be another MBer watching the unfolding of your journey.

I've said this on other threads before, but I'm happy to say it again, because it was such a huge epiphany for me: Remember when you took your vows? On that day, the two of you became ONE. That is a HUGE sentence, one that I think a lot of people just consider standard verbiage in the wedding ceremony. I know I did. But think about it - you became ONE. One spiritual body. And since you are one, doesn't it make sense that both of you can access what the other one is doing? It's like your two hands. They do different things at different times, but they are always connected. And you always know what both of them are doing. It follows that your marriage should be the same way. You are ONE.

Exception: Birthday and Christmas presents. And going potty. I think those things should be inviolate.

Whew! Can I yak, or what! The short answer to your question is "yes". And I'll say this: I had a good feeling about you and your WH, NP. When I saw his pic in the photo album. I know, I know - easy for me to say, now, right? But I really did.

Wow, thanks bliss!!! When I sent in that photo I almost cried because ... well, because it was the two of us and he was an alien.

I am crossing my fingers and wishing for the best! Very interested to talk to Steve on Monday. I will keep you all updated. You have all been such a HUGE source of inspiration for me....I feel like we're good friends, even though I've never met any of you....

And Margie!! Where have you been?????? I've been wondering about you!

Well, we DID help you paint your house and there IS our history of trashing LG's back yard~

hahah! Well, if any of you come up north to Calgary (for god-knows-what-reason) you are always welcome to swing by and check out the paint job!

Just checking in, I am soooo happy for you NP, you done good.

Yeah, IDK if LG will be inviting us back to his pool anytime soon.

NP, I've missed your thread the last couple days but I am happy and encouraged by your turn of events. Good luck with your session with Steve. I recommend you take notes during or even use a recorder during the conversation to listen to again afterwards. He provides a lot of great information and suggestions and sometimes it helps to hear it a second time.

Be careful with this, though. Do NOT give up your snooping methods. This applies to the boundaries, too - e.g., if you ask him not to delete texts, DON'T follow up w/ the "I'll just check them online to know for sure" line.

Yes, what she said.

Aaaaand....the alien is rearing his ugly head again.

Just got a half hour phone call from WH telling me he "better not get any email or phone calls" from OW saying that I had called her husband with this or that. And that he "doesn't need her getting hurt anymore by this." I was stunned to say the least. AND it turns out he feels like HE is giving ME a chance, not the other way around.

I kind of feel like crying and am questioning the marriage again.

Yep, I want to second this about the snooping, NP. It is very important that you continue to do so. This is part of affair-proofing your M. But remember, you became ONE. You're just checking to make sure all the parts of your One-ness are working together in harmony.

Mr. Bliss knows I check on him. It's actually become funny, now - he calls me his secretary I spot-check his voice mail at work. Then I'll be talking to him and say something like "Oh, Mr. Smith with the ABC Business Corporation called you at your office about some literature he's looking for."

He knows that I check his office phone and cell phone. He knows that I go through his briefcase and his car. He knows that I check his office email and personal email, and rifle his dresser drawers. He knows that I have VARs and I'm not afraid to randomly use them in random places.

There is one thing he doesn't know and I can't say what that is online, in the off-chance he checks my posts on MB. (Unlikely, but you never know, right?) But any good snooper can figure out what that is by reading the above paragraph and making note of what I didn't list as a snooping tool.

He has all of my passwords and complete access to all of my accounts, as well. We have nothing that isn't accessible by both of us.

You have recovery work to do, NP, and we'll be here to help you through that, as well. I am totally tickled for you!

Well, you're going to have some of this while he's coming out of the fog, NP. Steel up your resolve. He's going to be so embarrassed when he remembers saying these things. They always are once the fog lifts.

Just keep being the lighthouse.

NP

It's normal for him to lapse like this? I was really hoping we'd get through a few more days before I had to deal with the alien again.....It was just so sudden - we chatted before, nicely, and then all of a sudden 45 mins later there he was calling up and blasting me!

Yes, its par for the course, NP. It slowly goes away as the alien disappears..Sorry I know it is hard on you...

NP, believe it or not your WH will go through a type of withdrawal from OW. Think about it. How does an addict act when they're coming off their drug of choice? Calm, serene and happy one moment and the next they're screaming and throwing things, snappy, or extremely depressed. Makes no sense to a non-addicted person, right? But the longer he goes without contact with OW, the better his withdrawal will become. It WILL get easier. Eventually, he'll look back on this and be appalled at how he treated his wife/family.

This is why NC is so important. ANY contact will set you guys back to Day 1.

Okay then. I will keep my chin up about it. I knew about the addiction part, but sometimes I forget how hard it is - it was almost easier when I knew he was with her, at least that way I knew what to expect from him (but obviously it is better he's NOT with her haha). Thanks.

You have to be doubly vigilant, NP - while making some allowance for withdrawal, you have got to continue snooping and verifying NC. Like PM said, any contact will set you back to Day 1.

Oh, sweetie. You'll be okay, but I'm afraid you've got a bit of a road ahead of you. He's going through withdrawal, so expect some heathen behavior until he's done. Snoop, make him understand your requirements, and hang on. Pretend he is a heroin addict and you're helping him get through the withdrawal of the drug. I guarantee you that he will be sooo sorry when he's done!

NP

{{HUGS}} NP. I'm always here lurking. I got so much advice to stop posting and just worry about myself I did. But I'm here if you need me! We all are.

It's like this, NP. He's coming home, which is a great thing. But he's coming home with some scars from his infidelity. He's going to be looking at his home like it's an alien place. Don't expect things to become immediately normal - normal no longer exists for either of you (tell him that.) You're both going to build a new 'normal', a better 'normal'.

Take it slow. Be loving, even while he's going through withdrawal. Don't try to educate him about his addiction. Just love him.

Don't try to trot out things that the two of you used to do. Don't go to the 'old' favorite restaurant - find a new one off the beaten path that you think he'd like. Don't do the same old thing this weekend - do something different. Go for a hike. Pack a picnic lunch while you're at it. FIND A SITTER. Find 'alone time' for the two of you. Not to grind through the details of the A and hash over that, necessarily, but to reconnect.

This is gonna work, NP - I just know it.

Thanks for the votes of confidence, everyone!

I am really truly trying to avoid LBs now. If we are going to recover, I don't want to sabotage that. And I REALLY REALLY hope that this is withdrawal for him, and not a symptom of how he actually feels.

Does it matter if he's back with me because OW dumped him? I just have a suspicion that's what happened, and I don't know how I feel about it. He says he decided to come back for his family, and I hope that's true. Should his reasons matter, if it was him or OW?

Did you read SAA? That's what happened to the couple in there and they recovered.

I tried to order a copy, but because I'm in Canada it said they had to call me with a final price, and I never heard back from them. Maybe I didn't do it right?

BUT, that's good to know. I was worried that if the only reason he was back was because OW didn't want him he'd just go off and have another affair, instead of being serious about recovery.

I got my copy of SAA from EBAY. You could try the library. I was able o get LB, FIL SIL from the library and ten I ordered them off of ebay and amazon. I have ALL of the books now.

I remember reading that an affair really IS love. WH probably does love POSOW, and probably always will. It is why Extraordinary Precautions are needed. Unless their affair has run its course to the point that his LB$ for her is in the red (which from his outburst of not hurting her seems to not be the case), then he is only going to have the good feelings with no chance of ever experiencing enough LB to put his account for her in the red.

I am just posting what I remember from HNHN or the site somewhere. Someone can hit me if I messed it up.

NP, you are pretty amazing. I need to think why, so I can figure out what it is I want to take from it.

EDIT: NP, you are inspiring and you fill me with hope. I need to figure out why and what it is so I can take it with me.

Hoping the best for you!

Yeah, BT I read that too, except the part that says it is real love....addiction is more like it.

NP I think of you often and what you are going thru and you are pregnant and all...Be strong for your family, sweetie...its gonna be a tough road for a while, but you can do it and the payoff will be huge...A happy marriage with the father of your children...I am praying for you.

It's withdrawal. Count on that. And no, it doesn't matter why he's back. The fact is that he is with you and the kids, not her. The day is going to come when he cringes, thinking about his behavior.

NP, I really want to stress this: don't do the same old thing this weekend! Do something different. What does he enjoy doing? Try to think of something - not 'parallel play' KWIM?

Mr. Bliss & I like to cook and come up with interesting new recipes. Lots of interaction there. Can you think of something so the two of you can interact?

RELENTLESS (adj.): Steady and persistent; unremitting.

NP, this is your word for today. You need to be RELENTLESS in your deposits to WH's love bank. No matter how crummy he might behave today, no matter how gloomy he may be, your Giver needs to be RELENTLESS.

Be kind, be loving, be comforting, be enjoyable to be around. Somewhere in his addiction-addled brain, there's going to be a voice that will speak to him. It's going to be a little voice at first, but as your Giver keeps working it's going to get louder. And that voice is going to say "What was I thinking, getting involved with someone else when I've got this wonderful woman right here beside me?"

NP, you are the best thing that could happen to him. You are strong, brave, powerful, and the person that completes him. Other men would give up much to have you. You are his PRIZE. He will start seeing that while you are being RELENTLESS.

Now, get off here and go see if he wants to go antiquing, or checking out paint colors for the dining room, or whatever.

And be RELENTLESS.

Great job NP! Remember to keep snooping, be ever vigilant.

Be strong, be loving, and the alien will eventually leave. I'm still having little bits of alien H around, but every day it's less and less. Good luck to you, I'll be around.


CD

(formerly A.B. R.) -(had to change, long story)

I wondered where you went! Good job on your own R!

CD and bliss,

Thanks! My Taker was in full force this morning, after WH woke up in a crummy, snarly mood. I admit I let a couple snarls out myself, BUT I made myself stop and this is a good reminder to keep my Giver out! He went to the gym this morning and even called me from there instead of his cell so I'd know he was there, and to let me know he had gotten the class time wrong so I wouldn't wonder where he was (I of course had to leap on my computer and verify this, but still.. ). I need to remember to focus on the little things that he's doing! I suggested going to a theme park today with DD but of course the weather is pretty crappy out. I'm trying to be vigilant without seeming demanding and suspicious - just quietly checking up on what he does.

I hope it goes well!

CD (ABR), it's good to see you back! I never saw your recovery story - so congrats!

I haven't started showing him the MB concepts yet. He had found this site a while ago when he said I left it up on his computer, so I don't know how much he read at that time. Anyway, I wanted to wait until AFTER we had talked to Steve. I know he's going to be pretty resistent to talking to him, because after I exposed he asked the name of the counsellor who had said it was a good idea, and said his license should be taken away (SOME day he'll realize, hopefully...). But, I figure it's only 45 minutes and I should be able to get him to realize that it isn't going to hurt him just to talk.

In the meantime, I will continue to snoop and watch him carefully.

On another note, OW was sending me emails and links all day yesterday (presumably from her husband, but he told me they were from her), all about recovering from divorce and surviving infidelity. Apparently she is now "hoping WH and I can work it out." Talk about guilt! I feel sort of sorry for her - she desperately wants her own marriage back and he is not willing. I still hate her. A TON. But because I figure the best way to keep her from my husband is to help her be happy with hers, I was going to a) wait and see if she ACTUALLY emails me like she wanted to, instead of being a coward about it AGAIN, and b) if she does, depending on her email, I MIGHT tell her about MB. Don't know if that's a good idea or not - but the emails she sent me were crap. Seriously. And if that's what she's going off of, she has zero hope. Thoughts?

Aw BT, I just saw this post! Thank you! I don't feel amazing or inspiring - I'm scared and nervous! But I'm so, so glad that my story is helping others!

No. You are under no obligation to help this woman in any way, and at this juncture she is far too risky. MB needs to be yours and yours alone for a while - I would caution keeping (F?)WH away for a while, as well, until you are quite sure of his "former" status.

Re: the OW. People go back and forth about this, but many (I believe the Harleys say this, but don't quote me on it) say that NC is for not only the WS, but also the BS. For reasons besides the obvious, you do not need to be expending energy on this woman at all. You need to focus on your M, its recovery, your recovery. This would be a good thing to discuss w/ Steve.

Do not feel bad for her. She knew what she was doing. If she's serious about fixing herself/what she did, she will find a way to do it. It will just have to be a way that does not involve you in any way.

Cut her completely out of your lives. She is DEAD to you & WH. DEAD. Email her immediately and let her know that her sudden interest in the health of your M is of NO help or interest to you. Her emails are a form of contact, and you want NO CONTACT. Be polite, be firm. In a few words:

Dear Skankyho,
Please do not attempt to contact me or my H again. We wish to have no contact with you for any reason.
NewPetals.

Done.

Seriously, are you a glutton for punishment?

Do you LIKE ripping off scabs? Every time you have contact with this woman, you are tearing off a scab that needs to stay put for awhile.

text her like MB says.

Wow....can anyone say FR????

So, yesterday when WH called me at work and was all angry with me it was bc OW texted him and said I was doing horrible things to her and her kids by talking to her husband and was feeding him stuff. And of course he called her and they resumed contact.

Heard something from her BH today that clued me in that there had been contact and so I confronted him, and WH flew off the handle. Ended up having a huge fight and he's back in the guest room. He's been texting and talking to OW on the phone all night.

What do I do now????? I think u all were right, I let him back in too early...

Went into the guest room a few times to talk to him and he was on the phone to POSOW each time. He now refuses to stop talking to her and when i asked him to at least not contact her again before he and I talked tomorrow he refused to agree to even that, and says he wants to text her to apologize for all the interruptions. Says after our fight this evening our marriage is over so he feels like I have no more say in that.

This is sickening. It truly is. Is this more wayward than usual? Should I cut and run?

I'm so sorry NP. It's back to Plan B. Change the locks ASAP when he's gone he's seriously stressing you out unnecessarily. Maybe contact her H right now to fill him in that they are talking all this time

This is normal behavior in a relationship triangle. Again, he wants his cake (intact family, with wifey waiting patiently at home while OW patiently waits in the wings).

Please, go with a very dark Plan B. *You* need it for your sanity and physical well-being.

No more Plan A. He has to go until after baby is born. You're 1 week away from being due at any time. Once 37 weeks comes, your caregivers say you could have baby at any time. Baby is "term".

Trust me, you don't want baby's coming into the world tainted any further by his father's actions.

The plan A has gone on too long. Your husband doesn't believe you are seriously *not* willing to tolerate OW. He expects you to back down and shut up.

Is this the memory you want for the final weeks of your pregnancy? Your son's father trying to play mind games so he can have you and OW?

Dark Plan B asap to protect you from further emotional distress.

((((((NP)))))

This is what I thought had to happen. Feel sick to my stomach and SO mad at them.

NP,

I stopped posting on your thread a couple of days ago but I wasn't in agreement with what you were doing but I didn't want to come right out and say it and upset you. Simple fact is that you set the bar extremely low for WH so you got what you got. You went into Plan B and WH comes running home telling you he is done with POSOW (right after his fix) and you let him right back in. Sorry, but I didn't see anything to indicate that he was really wanting to work on the marriage. Words are just words. I can only say the same thing I've said to you already on your thread. Please...please get into a dark Plan B and have no contact with WH until after the baby is born. The health of you and lil bean far outweighs the health of your marriage right now. Time to get serious and stick to your guns.

Sorry for where you are at but you can get through this. Lil bean is counting on you!

(((((NP)))))

I agree with everyone else. You need a majorly dark Plan B for your sanity and for the sake of little bean. You don't need this stress. The first couple of days of Plan B are hard but it gets so much easier for you. If you remember, I went to plan B right after my FR and it did it's job - I got myself together, and now WH is home, as OW totally LBed (though I set a little low of a bar for him to return, in your case, I think you need a REALLY strong high bar set. ). We're here for you, NP, take care of yourself and your little ones.

Darn it, NP, I was afraid it was too easy! Tell him to get out. Plan B. Tell her H what you're doing and what they've been doing.

Tell you WH he is not to foul your airspace further. You will have the IM inform him of the baby's birth. Go back to your birthing plans to let the hospital know who can visit you or see the baby.

NP's WH

{{{{{{NewPetals}}}}}}}

Ditto.