Marriage Builders®
Before everyone bashes me for being the other guy, please believe me when I tell you that I thought her marriage was going to end soon... I am currently 28, she is 25. Her and I have worked together for 3 years. However we did not work in the same state. The place we work for has a few offices in the US. I work in one state, she works in the other. Our departments are heavily intertwined and we would have to work together everyday whether it was over the phone or through email, conf calls, etc. We started to build a relationship over the years. We got each others cell numbers and starting texting a lot. In my mind we were just good friends. I think she thought of me as more at that time. At the time of all of this, I was coming to the end of my marriage. The co worker and I spoke a lot about marriage and we tried to help each other out. I would talk to her about my marriage, she would talk to me about hers. We were both very unhappy and tried to give each other ideas to help save our marriages. My marriage ended May 2009. I talked to the co-worker about everything. She was there for me as she always had been. During my marriage ending she would always say how hers was going to end soon, and that she was planning on seperating soon. She would constantly tell me how she wished she hadn't gotten married so young and wanted to end it. In July 2009 I had to go to her office for work where we finally met in person. We hit it off, spent time together, and fell in love (at least thought we did). She told me she loved me after we met and wanted to pursue a relationship with me. We have spoken numerous times about one of us moving to the other persons state. We still talk and text everyday.

Anyways, to try to make a very long story short, we have been seeing each other about once a month since July 2009. I've been to her state a few times, she's been to mine a few times. The whole time she has said she was ending her marriage, however nothing has been accomplished. She hasn't filed, hasn't done a thing. Now she is saying she wants to do marriage counceling "just for his sake" so he can feel that they tried everything before they got divorced. She still lives with her husband. I guess I'm starting to realize that all I am is the other guy, and we don't have a future together. It's hard for so many reasons. I truly am in love with her. But she's married and I doubt she's going to end it. Now I have a dilemma. I know I need to end this, but how? Do I tell her husband about me? Please don't point out that I'm an Ahole for continuing this knowing that she was married the whole time. I honestly thought her marriage was going to end and we would try to build a real relationship together. It's hard not just because I love this girl, but also because her husband has no idea I exist and his wife is cheating on him. He didn't do anything to deserve this, and I'm half the blame for it. It hurts so bad knowing that I'm the other guy and helping to ruin a marriage. I still go back and forth and get confused. Sometimes from what she tells me I really think she will get divorced and her and I can start something together. Other times I realize I'm a moron and I need to end this. I know I'm a bad person, but please, any advice will help.
My God, you are having an affair with a married woman and you come on a marriage forum looking for sympathy?

You need to leave this woman ALONE. Why would you treat a married woman with such utter and shameful DISRESPECT? Do you have no respect for women?

Please end this now. Contact her husband and tell him what you have done. End contact with her immediately.

Son, you have made a mistake of enormous proportions. You have done a horrible thing to her husband and grossly disrespected this woman. Not to mention the fact that there is no future with her unless you dont object to cheating. You already know she is a cheater. Any married woman who would have an affair with you is not marriage material anyway. You have no future with her. She would cheat on you too.
Quote:
I truly am in love with her

This doesn't really matter.

Tell her betrayed husband.

He loves her and HE is HER husband.

You owe nothing to this WW, do not speak to her again.

Welcome to MB!
Originally Posted By: joey123
Please don't point out that I'm an Ahole for continuing this knowing that she was married the whole time. I honestly thought her marriage was going to end and we would try to build a real relationship together.


This is supposed to be an EXCUSE for adultery? huh? You DID a married woman. You did her while she was married. You cannot rationalize this away.
Unfortunately, "conventional wisdom" is completely stupid when it comes to marriages.

Your story is why no one should date or otherwise get involved with a married person.

"Separated" is still married.

"We're ending it" is still married.

It sounds like your girlfriend did what most players do - she lied to you so she could have two people at her beck and call to feed her emotional needs. And it worked.

Like all cheaters, she wanted the security and comfort of marriage *and* all the fun and excitement of dating at the same time. And she got it.

And you did the same thing with her. You sat on the fence and enjoyed having both a marriage and a girlfriend.

Just as a tiny afterthought - what about your Betrayed Wife? Does she know about any of this?

Yes, tell your girlfriend's Betrayed Husband. He has every right to know the truth, just as your BW does.

And get tested for STDs. Your girlfriend is a cheater and every cheater lies about EVERYTHING.
Originally Posted By: joey123
I truly am in love with her.


This is a lie. A man who truly loved a woman would not degrade her and treat her like a PIG. You acted like PIGS together, that is not "love." That is raw, selfish, unloving barnyard LUST. If you truly love someone you don't help them degrade themselves for your own selfish intents, you help them be the best they can be.
I did not come here for sympathy. I know I messed up and am trying to figure out how to handle this. I know I have disrespected her, as well as been disrespected. Telling her husband isn't easy as just calling and telling him. Or maybe it is. I don't know. How do I break something like this to the BS?
Just tell her it's over. Tell her you are NOT going to be the one that ruins a marriage and a life and it's over. Ignore all further contact from her. Change your job if necessary or ask for a transfer. Do anything you can. Tell her she can contact you again once her divorce is FINAL, not something she thinks about.

And STICK to it! It's time to step up and be a real man now.
Yes, it IS as easy as calling him and telling him. If I were you I wouldn't WANT to see him face to face. He has every reason to be angry, so...
Originally Posted By: joey123
I did not come here for sympathy. I know I messed up and am trying to figure out how to handle this. I know I have disrespected her, as well as been disrespected. Telling her husband isn't easy as just calling and telling him. Or maybe it is. I don't know. How do I break something like this to the BS?


Call the man up and tell him. Tell him you are damn sorry and give him the full truth. He will be in shock, so ask him to write down your phone # and call you with follow up questions.

That will go along way in redeeming your honor, Joey. And your soul... We all make mistakes, but we demomstrate the strength of our character in how we right those wrongs. This is the only way you can make this right. Call the man, tell him the truth and then pledge to never ever contact this woman again.

How you handle this will define the kind of man you really are, Joey.
OK, so I will find out how to reach him and call him. Now, how should I handle this with her? Should I give her the chance to tell him first? Or just do it without letting her know? The route I want to take is the "Either you're going to tell him or I'm going to tell him" route. Thoughts?
Do it without letting her know. She could spin it to her husband that you're a crazy loon if you tell her.
Originally Posted By: joey123
OK, so I will find out how to reach him and call him. Now, how should I handle this with her? Should I give her the chance to tell him first? Or just do it without letting her know? The route I want to take is the "Either you're going to tell him or I'm going to tell him" route. Thoughts?


Just tell him. She's a WW and likely to CONTINUE lying to him.

Look at the bright(?) side - he might dump her for her adultery, and that D's she's been stringing you along about might actually happen.
Originally Posted By: karmasrose
Do it without letting her know. She could spin it to her husband that you're a crazy loon if you tell her.


Agreed. Tell her it's over. Then tell her husband. And then leave them alone and stay out of their lives permanently.
Originally Posted By: joey123
OK, so I will find out how to reach him and call him. Now, how should I handle this with her? Should I give her the chance to tell him first? Or just do it without letting her know? The route I want to take is the "Either you're going to tell him or I'm going to tell him" route. Thoughts?


Blackmail is about the worst way to handle it and will just complicate things and likely result in him not finding out. Just call the man up and tell him. Don't complicate this, son.

When you are finished, send her an email telling her to never contact you again or you will be forwarding the email to her husband. cc her H on that email.

That is the most effective way to handle it.
p.s. whatever you do, don't talk to her again. The last thing she should hear from you is an email telling her ot never contact you again.
She won't tell her BH in a million years. She will, however, lie to you some more and just say she did to get your off her back about it.

Please listen to the others here. Be a man and inform her BH. He has a right to know. Then get out of both their lives permanently.

And as I mentioned earlier - what about your Betrayed Wife? Did you get a divorce? Does she know about your adultery? She has a right to know, too, even if you are divorced now, so she can protect herself from STDs.
Reclaim your honor, Joey.
Joey, I am a FWW, and I agree that you just need to tell him. Then cease all contact with her forever. I am not sure if you still work in a situation where you might have to have contact with her, but find another job if you have to.

I am ashamed to say this, but they are right about this WW. I had an A with a single man, and though I wouldn't admit it at the time, I DID want to have them each "waiting in the wings" until I got up the nerve to have one or the other. It was sick. In my case, the A ended. And though he was scum for doing a married woman, I will say that him refusing contact with me was a help to my marital recovery.

So if you want to do the right thing, tell the husband, end all contact with WW - there is no need for a big goodbye, just drop it. And if you had any type of involvement with this woman before your divorce was final, you need to tell your ex-wife.
Originally Posted By: joey123
OK, so I will find out how to reach him and call him. Now, how should I handle this with her? Should I give her the chance to tell him first? Or just do it without letting her know? The route I want to take is the "Either you're going to tell him or I'm going to tell him" route. Thoughts?


The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Therefore, call him directly. She is not needed as a messenger nor as an interpreter.

If you are serious about ending it -- and taking the first of many steps in order to restore some semblance of character and integrity -- you will call him directly and tell him everything he needs to know.

TB
I would call the BH's house disguising your phone # using *67 and ask for the H. Give him your full name and tell him you are deeply sorry but he has a right to know about the affair you have been having with his wife. Give him the facts and tell him how sorry you are. Promise to never contact her again. Then give him your phone # and email for follow up questions. Ask for his email so you can cc him on an email ending contact with his wife.
After you end the affair and tell her husband, you then need to tell your ex-wife.

If she has not remarried, there is a chance that you could rebuild a wonderful marriage with her, following the MarriageBuilders principles. If your ex-wife is willing to try, you CAN fall in love with her again.
Melody Lane, I feel you are way out of line. This person is not looking for sympathy, and you have reacted way emotional instead of professional and helpful. He is asking advice which is why we are here.
Joey,
All parties involved have the right to know. When someone is cheating on you, even if you don't know outright, your subconscious mind often knows and it takes it's toll on you physically and mentally and emotionally. The woman's husband has a right to know that he is not crazy, that there is a reason he feels as he undoubtedly does.
You should not contact her again. You should let your boss know what happened and that you cannot deal with her in the firm...they will either accommodate that wish or let you go, but it's a price you should be willing to make in light of what the two of you have done. Please remember, in the future, a cheater does not make good marriage material. The woman lied to her husband, lied to you, she was not a catch or deserving of love, she is just a cheater and liar. Yes, get tested, asap. If you have something, the health department can get in touch with her, but do not contact her for any reason. And Joey, change your contact information after you've told her no more contact...block her on Facebook, change your email address and phone number, if she has your address, change your PO Box number, but make it hard for her to know where you are.
The sad thing with this Joey is your exwife never had a chance as long as you were emotionally attached to another woman. What does this say about you and relationships? Read and do what the vets, which include former cheaters, tell you.

Good luck

Gg
Joey,

How are you going to explain what you did to your next wife? If you make your apologies to the poor husband you can at least demonstrate that you understood what you did wrong and made amends. If not you will have a horrible secret to hide for your next relationship. This is about re-establishing YOUR integrity.

If the case is that her husband cheated or your wife cheated that is still no excuse for you to do what you did.

Gamma
Originally Posted By: kaycstamper
Melody Lane, I feel you are way out of line. This person is not looking for sympathy, and you have reacted way emotional instead of professional and helpful. He is asking advice which is why we are here.


Kay, I feel you are out of line telling others how to post. There is no need to gloss over his sleazy behavior, nor are we "professionals." There is nothing "unprofessional" about accurately describing sleazy behavior. This young man needs to fully understand what he has done and hear how others see him in an objective, realistic light. There is nothing out of line in that.

Originally Posted By: Gamma
This is about re-establishing YOUR integrity.


Agree, Gamma.

Joey, I would send the MW a letter similar to this, except changed to suit your situation.. I would be a good idea to cc her H also so he can see you are serious:

[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX
Thank you all for your input. Hopefully I can step up and do this. I know I need to do it. The sooner the better. In regards to the ex, there is no way that will work. We are through with each other.
Originally Posted By: joey123
Thank you all for your input. Hopefully I can step up and do this.


Well, hope is not a plan. What it will take is a DECISION to do the right thing. You CAN step up and do the right thing *IF* you make the decision to do it.
Originally Posted By: gg615
The sad thing with this Joey is your exwife never had a chance as long as you were emotionally attached to another woman.

I was thinking the exact thing. Sad.

Integrity is a powerful word isn't it.

This BH needs to know now.

Your xBW needs to know too, not only for the tests already mentioned, but to know what gg615 wrote above.
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: joey123
I did not come here for sympathy. I know I messed up and am trying to figure out how to handle this. I know I have disrespected her, as well as been disrespected. Telling her husband isn't easy as just calling and telling him. Or maybe it is. I don't know. How do I break something like this to the BS?


Call the man up and tell him. Tell him you are damn sorry and give him the full truth. He will be in shock, so ask him to write down your phone # and call you with follow up questions.

That will go along way in redeeming your honor, Joey. And your soul... We all make mistakes, but we demomstrate the strength of our character in how we right those wrongs. This is the only way you can make this right. Call the man, tell him the truth and then pledge to never ever contact this woman again.

How you handle this will define the kind of man you really are, Joey.


I wanterd to say this when I first saw his post....WAs waiting for a vet to say it....perfect ML
Joey,

I want to offer you support in doing the right thing. I know it is hard to get yourself out of the situation that you got yourself in, and it's not easy to face the beating that you'll get in here. However, I just want to address some simple truths.

1) Men and women can't just be friends. You aren't in high school anymore. You need to get out of that mentality that guys and girls can hang out together and just be cool. You are an adult now. You need to move on to adult relationships. Men and women in committed relationships should not have close opposite friends outside of their relationship. That's called cheating. You were wrong to exchange phone numbers with a married woman. That's where you made your mistake, and you have been compounding it ever since. If you want to ever have a real, committed relationship with a woman in the future, you need to understand this simple truth. Men and women can only be friends if they are both single. If you want to have close opposite sex friendships, I would suggest staying single and have only single friends.

2) This WW is cake-eating. She likes certain aspects of her spouse and certain aspects of her affair partner. Now she has both. She's going to continue to try and have both. Her husband meets needs that you don't. You have no future with this woman, and even if thought you did, do you really think she wouldn't cheat on you? She's already proven herself to be a cheater.

3) It is that simple to end it. Find out her husband's contact info (probably on facebook), confess to him everything that has happened, and send him a no contact letter to give your affair partner. Change your contact info. Get a new job so you don't ever have contact with her again. The only way to end an affair is cold turkey. Just rip the bandaid off. Otherwise, your affair partner will manipulate you and suck you back in.

4) I know you feel like a bad person, but that feeling with stop if you do the right thing, end the affair, and ask for forgiveness. You can redeem yourself. Part of regaining your integrity is also telling your ex-wife, even if you have no interest in getting back with her. You were unfaithful to her, and you need to make that right as well.

Originally Posted By: jmwc95
Joey,

I want to offer you support in doing the right thing. I know it is hard to get yourself out of the situation that you got yourself in, and it's not easy to face the beating that you'll get in here. However, I just want to address some simple truths.

1) Men and women can't just be friends. You aren't in high school anymore. You need to get out of that mentality that guys and girls can hang out together and just be cool. You are an adult now. You need to move on to adult relationships. Men and women in committed relationships should not have close opposite friends outside of their relationship. That's called cheating. You were wrong to exchange phone numbers with a married woman. That's where you made your mistake, and you have been compounding it ever since. If you want to ever have a real, committed relationship with a woman in the future, you need to understand this simple truth. Men and women can only be friends if they are both single. If you want to have close opposite sex friendships, I would suggest staying single and have only single friends.

2) This WW is cake-eating. She likes certain aspects of her spouse and certain aspects of her affair partner. Now she has both. She's going to continue to try and have both. Her husband meets needs that you don't. You have no future with this woman, and even if thought you did, do you really think she wouldn't cheat on you? She's already proven herself to be a cheater.

3) It is that simple to end it. Find out her husband's contact info (probably on facebook), confess to him everything that has happened, and send him a no contact letter to give your affair partner. Change your contact info. Get a new job so you don't ever have contact with her again. The only way to end an affair is cold turkey. Just rip the bandaid off. Otherwise, your affair partner will manipulate you and suck you back in.

4) I know you feel like a bad person, but that feeling with stop if you do the right thing, end the affair, and ask for forgiveness. You can redeem yourself. Part of regaining your integrity is also telling your ex-wife, even if you have no interest in getting back with her. You were unfaithful to her, and you need to make that right as well.



LOVE this post. Perfect. Joey you don't have to feel bad the rest of your life. But you have to right this wrong. And I do NOT agree with the idea that if you blow up their marriage maybe you can have her post divorce. You should never even consider being with her. A sign of true remorse is stopping the wrong.

I also agree that you need to tell your Xwife what you did. She deserves to know.

I don't think I've ever seen a story like this on MB...from the OM...I hope you stay with us and let the vets work through this with you. You won't be sorry.
Joey, Jim is right. You can redeem yourself by telling the husband and your ex-wife the truth. You will feel better knowing you did the right thing.

Please have no more contact with her, not even to say goodbye or tell her you are contacting her husband. You contacting the husband may save their marriage and family.

You will be a better person for doing the right thing - this is one of those times that define you.
Joey,

One more thing. If you need an extra push to do the right thing, why don't you read some of the post of the other betrayed husbands on the board to see things through their eyes. One of them is a deployed soldier in Afghanistan while his WW screws around with a fellow officer. One poster's WW is a stay-at-home mom, so he'll be relegated to an every-other-weekend dad while his WW screws the OM and lives off his child and spousal support. Read some of their stories. Check out the stories of Gerkaguards, now_what, schtoop, jslowed, TryingEverything, arkhawk1, and maybe you'll get a slight glimpse of what it is like to be in their shoes.
J, just wanted to say you are doing the right thing (once you do the right thing). I give you a lot of credit coming here.

The work you do if you follow people's advice here will serve you for the rest of your life. On the contrary if you don't follow the path laid out here, your actions will haunt you in ways you can't understand. My "one time" A's 8 years ago (not on the emotional scale of your situation, but still totally disgusting and disrespectful, shameful and wrong) contributed to an empty marriage and eventual divorce (in the process now). It was a little secret that should have been properly dealt with at the time.

Deal with this now. Be an honorable man. You won't regret it. Put it totally to rest and then come here to learn about true loving marriages and the principles behind how they work.

optimism
Hi Joey,
Welcome to Marriage builders.

While your not the first OM I have ever seen on these boards, I think you might be the first one who wanted to make it right. Well done

As others have said, you need to contact the BH and be completely honest with him about his WW's affair. Because he will initially be in shock - a shock that may last days, give him the ability to make contact with you afterwards. Also ditto what others have said re: the no contact letter and never contacting your married woman again.

You made a comment about your past marriage being completely over. Never say never as far as that goes. I personally know people on this board who have remarried, come back together after a 2 year separation, have repaired abusive marriages, and even recovered after multiple infidelities on both sides. Not ALL marriage recover, but MB will give the best chance of it.

If nothing else you really do owe your XW an explanation as to what your part in the demise of the marriage was. It may answer many questions she had never been able to put into words herself.

Kudo's for coming and admitting this on MB. You have the makings of a good honourable man. Expect some 2x4's here, especially if you give us a load of bull. Otherwise do read and learn why we do not accept the hollywood "follow your heart" message as being true and the side of adultery the media would pretend doesnt exist.
Joey, Welcome to MB. I usually stay away from wayward spouses threads. I saw that you were an OM and I was going to stay FAR away. I saw that some very good people were posting though. Then I read what they were writing and I had to read.

I am happy that you have seen the "light" that shines in MB. My hope for you is that you will one day find the redemption by finding your way back to the right path.

You can do this. You have always known that you SHOULD do this.

Listen to the people here. Deal with the consequences of your actions. If you really ever loved your married woman affair partner, you would want her to get back to the correct path. She needs to do the right thing. If she doesn't, that doesn't concern you anymore. You need to do this for YOU. Do the RIGHT thing.

Also, I just heard yesterday that a D'd couple just got back together after 14 years. They were young when they married and had one child together. They divorced. They both went on to have other relationships and even other children with other people. They found eachother again. Who knows? They are gonna give it another go around.

You never know what the universe has planned for you. You never know what is around the corner. That's what makes life so FUN.

YOU CAN DO THIS.
Tell husband in person, **edit**
Actually, TryingEverything, I think it took a lot of courage for Joey to come and post here! IF he's serious about fixing the massive problem he's created, that is.

Well, Joey, you've gotten tons of advice. What's your plan?

Welcome to MB, Joey. Read the posts you're getting carefully. The knowledge you take from this site will help you for life.

A few comments, just so you know where I come from. Then I'll repost with my thoughts on where you need to go from here.

Quote:
Before everyone bashes me for being the other guy, please believe me when I tell you that I thought her marriage was going to end soon...

Waywards usually say that. How else to justify screwing around on their poor unknowing spouse?

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In my mind we were just good friends.

More wayward-speak. Justification for the continued contact.

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At the time of all of this, I was coming to the end of my marriage.

Have you considered the damage you were doing to your own marriage while you were having this emotional affair? Even if you swear to yourself that you can keep the affair "in the office" it still affects every aspect of your life, and is like arsenic to a marriage.

Quote:
She told me she loved me after we met and wanted to pursue a relationship with me. We have spoken numerous times about one of us moving to the other persons state. We still talk and text everyday.


This must end TODAY. You are arsenic in their marriage, do you understand that?

Quote:
The whole time she has said she was ending her marriage, however nothing has been accomplished. She hasn't filed, hasn't done a thing.


Why would she do anything and screw up this great gig she's got going? doh2

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I truly am in love with her.

No, you are involved with her and getting your needs met by her. Involved and in love are two different things

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But she's married and I doubt she's going to end it.

Well, helllloooo - you've been seeing her for 10 months and she's going to MC with her husband???? Yathink??? clap
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Now I have a dilemma. I know I need to end this, but how?


Joey, when you throw a rock in a pond it doesn't just sink to the bottom. It casts ripples that stir up the rest of the pond. Your A is the same thing. It has affected more people than you know and DID NOT EXIST JUST BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU. You have some work to do in order to redirect your moral compass and try to make things right for the people you've damaged.

1. Call OWH and tell him. Today. You will more than likely shatter him, because believe me - he knows his M has been troubled, but he doesn't know why. He doesn't know his W is being unfaithful to him. Tell him so that he can have the reality of his M and his LIFE.

2. Send a letter to OW. Another poster has already given you the template.

3. Call your XW and tell her that you were having an A during the time of your M. I suspect you may have given some trumped-up reason for wanting out of your M - communication problems, compatibility problems, blah blah blah. Look hard at the truth of your marital history - your M had a chance until you looked elsewhere to have your needs met. That was the stake through the heart of your M. Your XW needs to know that something outside of her control caused the death of her M. This will be important for her as she goes forward into other relationships.

4. Going forward: You will meet other women. If they are married, turn and RUN. You have work to do to establish personal boundaries and maintain them. I hope you will read about that on this site. You are currently poor marriage material. Also, when you do meet The One (and she is out there, and is NOT married) you will need to be open and honest about this affair. She needs to know that you have had weak boundaries in the past. She needs to know this so she can make an informed decision about a relationship with you.

I have hope for you, Joey.
Joey...

When you end it with OW...be sure to end it for good. Give absolutely no indication that you two will EVER work out (because you won't).

Mrs. W actually directed me over here with the fear that you MAY just be like some of the OW we've seen over the years that expose to their affair partner's unknowing spouse HOPING really to end the marriage. They FINALLY want to stir things up because they are starting to feel a bit...well, used (in a whorish kind of way) so they expose themselves hoping to land their affair partner when they get dumped by the betrayed spouse.

Really, when you look at it. You've kinda been like her secret pet. Her boy in waiting while she maintains her family and husband. Not a very respectful position for a man to be. Her personal gigilo.

Anyway...waywards lie. So I don't trust you and your words here one bit. However, IF you are telling the truth and truly want to do the right thing...DUMP the married woman. Do it immediately and don't give her ANY window of opportunity to reconciliation with you. She WILL TRY to keep her "poolboy" on the line. She wants BOTH you and her husband and she FEELS entitled to both. When you TRY to walk away....she will track you down and PROMISE YOU THE WORLD. If you give her a window of opportunity to be with you again...she MAY even walk out on her husband and MAKE IT APPEAR she is deciding, in YOUR favor...once and for all.

Don't fall for it. Be THROUGH being her scraps chump.

If you do fall for it (she'll be convincing)...Mark my words...whether it's the next week, the next month or two years from today, she will either run back to her husband OR cheat on you with the next sympathetic boy at work.

No matter where she goes...there she will be.

You seeming are aware that you're a dirtbag for what you've done so far but you can change and repent by turning from your sin....and sinning no more. Walk away...KNOWING...you'll be avoiding a life (well at least a few more years) of COMPLETE MISERY. You may think the last year or so was actually difficult...but you only got the "happy to see" affair partner. Oh nelly...she's a whole nother ball of entitled miserable fun when you've got her 24/7.

RUN AWAY...FAST. As in "I'm ending it. Forever. You are CRAZY and I don't care whether you divorce your husband or not...I'm DONE with you. Don't call me. Don't email me. It's over". You will likely have to really be mean to her to drive the point home. She won't LISTEN at all because she's an entitled monster...entitled to you. Until she GRANTS you the right to speak or have an opinion...she won't give it to you. She won't even respect your right to break up with her.

Then...24 hours after that. Email her husband as directed above. Tell him you ended the emotional and physical affair with his wife yesterday and that you are very sorry. That you hope they can repair the damage to their marriage that you helped cause but that regardless of their outcome you are done with the relationship with his wife FOREVER as nothing good has ever resulted from Adultery.

Do not give him advice. In fact...post it here BEFORE you send it as foggy waywards, like you, always mess these things up.

Mr. W

p.s. - Start putting out resumes. Time to leave that job and get away from her.
Check that...

Do NOT wait 24 hours to call the husband. In fact...don't CALL or speak to the woman EVER AGAIN.

Don't give her any explanation.

Call her husband NOW and let him break up with her for you.

Give him an new email private email address to contact you with any questions he may have (he may need some proof like copies of emails or something as his wife will deny the affair and make you out to be some crazy co-worker set out to destroy her or her career).

If she harasses you at work thereafter the only contact you may have with her is by an email saying...

"It's over. Please respect my decision. I have broken up with you and if you do not stop harassing me I will have no other choice than to report this to management"

That's it. There is other way to do it. You can't talk about it or hash it over with her and the proverbial "closure contact" wherein you'll get together to end it on a good note is simply a wayward trick to suck you back in. Don't fall for it. There is no "good note" opportunity available no matter how you slice it.

Just be a man and mean what you say. It's over. End of story.

You may seem heartbroken for a bit but it will be for the best for her, her husband and, for certain...YOU. A few day or weeks of heartbreak is NOTHING compared to the damage YOU have caused nor the misery you'll be signing up for if you continue the relationship one second more.

Mr. W
Originally Posted By: MrWondering
Joey...

Then...24 hours after that. Email her husband as directed above. Tell him you ended the emotional and physical affair with his wife yesterday and that you are very sorry. That you hope they can repair the damage to their marriage that you helped cause but that regardless of their outcome you are done with the relationship with his wife FOREVER as nothing good has ever resulted from Adultery.

Do not give him advice. In fact...post it here BEFORE you send it as foggy waywards, like you, always mess these things up.

Mr. W

p.s. - Start putting out resumes. Time to leave that job and get away from her.


I'm going to agree with everything Mr. W said, except I would contact her H first. Then end it with her. Once you've outed yourself to her H you're committed. If you call her first she's probably going to pull you into drama: "But honey, I TOLD you I was just going to MC to appease my H! We have a lifetime together if you'll just wait a little longer! You are my prince!" blah blah blah. You, being the OM, are in a foggy state and may not be able to stand up to her attack. If that's the case, you'll still be enmeshed in the A and will lose your resolve.
Originally Posted By: joey123
I did not come here for sympathy. I know I messed up and am trying to figure out how to handle this. I know I have disrespected her, as well as been disrespected. Telling her husband isn't easy as just calling and telling him. Or maybe it is. I don't know. How do I break something like this to the BS?


I want to you live in his world for a minute. Here's a man who loves his wife. Over the past 10 months she's become distant, moody, mean-tempered, cranky. He doesn't know why. They fight more. She tells him she wishes she'd never married him, and that breaks his heart. She criticizes everything he does, so he tries. He tries to pick up his clothes because he knows that bothers her. He tries to help around the house more, thinking desperately that there has to be something that will give her happiness.

He doesn't know what to do because she's never happy anymore. He takes her out to dinner, buys her gifts - nothing helps. He tries to be more attentive in his own fumbling way, but it just annoys her. He stumbles onto the idea of counselling to save his M. She begrudgingly agrees. Now he has a single thread of hope - maybe a 'professional' can help him get to the bottom of why his marriage seems so rocky.

What he doesn't know is that she has brought a third party into the marriage. That knowledge would change everything. Then he would understand.

Now you know the BH a little better. Knowing this much, call him. Simply say "My name is Joey last name here. I am so sorry to tell you this, but for the past 10 months I have been involved in an affair with your wife her name here. I realize how damaging this has been to your marriage and I'm calling you now to apologize for the terrible destruction I have caused to your marriage. My actions were selfish and inexcusable. I want you to know that I will have no further contact with your wife and will no longer involve myself in your marriage."
Originally Posted By: joey123
Before everyone bashes me for being the other guy, please believe me when I tell you that I thought her marriage was going to end soon...

So what if you thought her marriage was going to end soon, she was still married.
Originally Posted By: joey123


I am currently 28, she is 25. Her and I have worked together for 3 years. However we did not work in the same state. The place we work for has a few offices in the US. I work in one state, she works in the other. Our departments are heavily intertwined and we would have to work together everyday whether it was over the phone or through email, conf calls, etc. We started to build a relationship over the years. We got each others cell numbers and starting texting a lot. In my mind we were just good friends. I think she thought of me as more at that time. At the time of all of this, I was coming to the end of my marriage.


Probably due in part to you spending time and talent on a married woman. What were you doing at this time to make your marriage better? Were you texting your wife, sharing your day with her, or funny stories, or whatever. Probably not.
Originally Posted By: joey123


The co worker and I spoke a lot about marriage and we tried to help each other out. I would talk to her about my marriage, she would talk to me about hers. We were both very unhappy and tried to give each other ideas to help save our marriages. My marriage ended May 2009. I talked to the co-worker about everything. She was there for me as she always had been. During my marriage ending she would always say how hers was going to end soon, and that she was planning on seperating soon. She would constantly tell me how she wished she hadn't gotten married so young and wanted to end it. In July 2009 I had to go to her office for work where we finally met in person. We hit it off, spent time together, and fell in love (at least thought we did). She told me she loved me after we met and wanted to pursue a relationship with me. We have spoken numerous times about one of us moving to the other persons state. We still talk and text everyday.

Anyways, to try to make a very long story short, we have been seeing each other about once a month since July 2009. I've been to her state a few times, she's been to mine a few times. The whole time she has said she was ending her marriage, however nothing has been accomplished. She hasn't filed, hasn't done a thing. Now she is saying she wants to do marriage counceling "just for his sake" so he can feel that they tried everything before they got divorced. She still lives with her husband. I guess I'm starting to realize that all I am is the other guy, and we don't have a future together. It's hard for so many reasons. I truly am in love with her. But she's married and I doubt she's going to end it. Now I have a dilemma. I know I need to end this, but how? Do I tell her husband about me? Please don't point out that I'm an Ahole for continuing this knowing that she was married the whole time. I honestly thought her marriage was going to end and we would try to build a real relationship together. It's hard not just because I love this girl, but also because her husband has no idea I exist and his wife is cheating on him. He didn't do anything to deserve this, and I'm half the blame for it. It hurts so bad knowing that I'm the other guy and helping to ruin a marriage. I still go back and forth and get confused. Sometimes from what she tells me I really think she will get divorced and her and I can start something together. Other times I realize I'm a moron and I need to end this. I know I'm a bad person, but please, any advice will help.


OK, I won't sugar coat it, and I'll tell you where I'm coming from, and perhaps you'll see how selfish and insensitive you were and STILL ARE acting.

My ex-wife met a guy who traveled in to our community for work and likely, just like your story, she wasn't happy in our marriage. I wasn't really happy either, and frankly I had no clue what to do.

The thing is, they must have both told each other they were not happy. The problem is, she never told me, not until she was moving out to have her affair with him.

So I have little patience for those who choose affairs, men or women.

When you married, when my wife and I married, it's likely we promised to be there for one another. One is not there for the other if they are going to some third party for advice. I don't mean like going to a counselor. I'm talking about some civilian who isn't trained to be objective.

What should you do? I think you should try this story out on her husband and see if he really feels sorry for you.

If he punches you instead, then perhaps you'll get an understanding of how you've emotionally sucker punched his family.

If he does that, instead of going to the cops and filing charges, thank him for doing that, as you likely deserve worse for you and his wife's emotional abuse.

You see affairs, even emotional affairs are emotionally abusive to the betrayed spouse. So you've likely betrayed and emotionally abused your ex-wife, and the same is true for her husband.

What you did was a bad thing. You'll get no argument from me on that. The question is, what have you learned from this, and what will you do to correct the situation, and keep from doing this again.

If she'll betray her husband to be with you, what will prevent her from doing the same if things got rocky between the two of you?

She may be thinking the same thing. If you were so willing to be there for her, instead of his own wife, how can she trust you to be there for her in the future?

Relationships must be built on trust and honesty. Carrying on clandestine relationships with another person is not a firm foundation for a relationship.

Find out where she lives, or how to contact her husband and tell him the truth. Tell him the WHOLE story, how you met, how you carried on, how you've seen her monthly since 7/09, and tell him what you did was wrong and you'll step out of her life.

He may end the marriage, he may forgive her and work on it.

Right now, neither of you are fit to be the lover, let alone the spouse of another. So my further advice is to take some time off, look at your and only your part in your failed marriage and why you had such poor boundaries that you chose to have an emotional and possible physical affair while married with a married woman.

Bottom line.

1. You know what you did is wrong, own it, confess is and repent, which means never go back to her or that behavior again.

2. Own your part in your marriage failure. Learn the right way to run a marriage, and in a few years, you may be ready to date and marry someone a few years after that.
Originally Posted By: joey123
Before everyone bashes me for being the other guy, please believe me when I tell you that I thought her marriage was going to end soon...

...

I'm a bad person, but please, any advice will help.


Stop having sex until you get married. Then you'll never risk having an affair with someone whose marriage might or might not be ending.
Originally Posted By: joey123
OK, so I will find out how to reach him and call him. Now, how should I handle this with her? Should I give her the chance to tell him first? Or just do it without letting her know? The route I want to take is the "Either you're going to tell him or I'm going to tell him" route. Thoughts?


No, this is not about making her do anything. It's not your job to make her tell her husband, or in any other way to make her do the right thing.

Quit helping her with her marriage. That's how the affair started. Duh! (You only have to watch two or three movies to learn this; it's not some big secret. You should have known your behavior with her was inappropriate long, long earlier.)
Originally Posted By: kaycstamper
You should let your boss know what happened and that you cannot deal with her in the firm...they will either accommodate that wish or let you go, but it's a price you should be willing to make in light of what the two of you have done.


Yes. You need to make sure that you never see this woman again, and that includes working with her. If they will not accommodate you, you should go find another job!
Originally Posted By: jmwc95
Joey,

I want to offer you support in doing the right thing. I know it is hard to get yourself out of the situation that you got yourself in, and it's not easy to face the beating that you'll get in here. However, I just want to address some simple truths.

1) Men and women can't just be friends. You aren't in high school anymore. You need to get out of that mentality that guys and girls can hang out together and just be cool. You are an adult now. You need to move on to adult relationships. Men and women in committed relationships should not have close opposite friends outside of their relationship. That's called cheating. You were wrong to exchange phone numbers with a married woman. That's where you made your mistake, and you have been compounding it ever since. If you want to ever have a real, committed relationship with a woman in the future, you need to understand this simple truth. Men and women can only be friends if they are both single. If you want to have close opposite sex friendships, I would suggest staying single and have only single friends.

2) This WW is cake-eating. She likes certain aspects of her spouse and certain aspects of her affair partner. Now she has both. She's going to continue to try and have both. Her husband meets needs that you don't. You have no future with this woman, and even if thought you did, do you really think she wouldn't cheat on you? She's already proven herself to be a cheater.

3) It is that simple to end it. Find out her husband's contact info (probably on facebook), confess to him everything that has happened, and send him a no contact letter to give your affair partner. Change your contact info. Get a new job so you don't ever have contact with her again. The only way to end an affair is cold turkey. Just rip the bandaid off. Otherwise, your affair partner will manipulate you and suck you back in.

4) I know you feel like a bad person, but that feeling with stop if you do the right thing, end the affair, and ask for forgiveness. You can redeem yourself. Part of regaining your integrity is also telling your ex-wife, even if you have no interest in getting back with her. You were unfaithful to her, and you need to make that right as well.



5) One day if you do get married, you need to tell your wife your complete history, including this episode. Before she marries you. In order to give her a chance to change her mind, or accept you as you are. (If you will make up your mind to do this now, it will help you act with integrity in the future.)
Markos, your advice not to have sex unless you are married is brilliant. I wonder just how many miserable situations in life would be avoided if people just heeded that one piece of advice.
Originally Posted By: MrWondering
If she harasses you at work thereafter the only contact you may have with her is by an email saying...

"It's over. Please respect my decision. I have broken up with you and if you do not stop harassing me I will have no other choice than to report this to management"


Mrs. Wondering has made what I think is a good suggestion. She feels, as a FWW herself, that she wouldn't have accepted my word that the OM in our situation was really breaking up with her THROUGH me.

Thus...

After you call her husband you send her a quick email shortly thereafter stating:

"It's over. What we did was wrong. It will always be wrong. I've met someone else anyway and I don't want you interferring. Please respect my decision."

That's it.

It's important to give her the semblance of a reason (meeting someone else) such that she is more likely to accept the explanation and not think her husband or someone else got to you. Absent an explanation...she may just jump in her car and drive to you to get one and I hope you are being honest with us because that SHOULD BE what you DON'T want. Again..."closure contact" is anything but. She is NOT your girlfriend. Regular rules to breaking up do not apply. Ending all contact...immediately for whatever plausable LIE you can come up with to keep it short and simple is the best.

Mr. W
I wish my WH's OW would have been thinking like you and saved us all a lot of pain....
Affairs hurt the innocent and it's not right that someone can think they have the right to interfere in a marriage for their own selfish reasons...
I'm proud that you woke up and feel guilty about your actions, I'm glad you have chosen the right path now and see what damage you could do.
Nothing good ever comes from deceit and lies except pain.
Find a great woman you don't have to share, someone you are sure won't have an affair when times are tough....someone you can trust your life with.......
Everyone deserves that.....
You've gotten some good advice. I'll throw in my two cents worth.

Full disclosure - I was an OM 17 years ago when I was young and stupid. I had myself convinced I was in love with the WW so I think I can relate to your situation.

I really think you need to break up with her, talk to her BH, and tell your supervisor at work all in the same few hours. There is a risk that she will go nuts and try to spin the story where you coerced or forced her somehow, saving face with her BH and maybe getting you in trouble at work.

If you talk to your supervisor, he/she may be able to work one of you getting a transfer so you never have to work together or see each other again. And it is critically important that you never see, talk, email, text, or have any other contact with her. If that isn't possible, it may be better if you find a new job. When the WW broke up with me, I actually moved away.

Give a heartfelt apology to the BH, but don't expect forgiveness. Don't use any language like "I hope you guys work it out" or "work on your marriage". That's not your place...your place is to apologize, give the BH whatever information he wants about the affair, get the heck out of their marriage and never talk to either of them again.

Get an STD test. You might not be the only 'extra' she's getting.

Take a break from dating and relationships for a while and really think about what it is that you want. I suggest you re-evaluate your dating criteria. As others have pointed out, married means married.
Originally Posted By: maritalbliss
Originally Posted By: joey123
I did not come here for sympathy. I know I messed up and am trying to figure out how to handle this. I know I have disrespected her, as well as been disrespected. Telling her husband isn't easy as just calling and telling him. Or maybe it is. I don't know. How do I break something like this to the BS?


I want to you live in his world for a minute. Here's a man who loves his wife. Over the past 10 months she's become distant, moody, mean-tempered, cranky. He doesn't know why. They fight more. She tells him she wishes she'd never married him, and that breaks his heart. She criticizes everything he does, so he tries. He tries to pick up his clothes because he knows that bothers her. He tries to help around the house more, thinking desperately that there has to be something that will give her happiness.

He doesn't know what to do because she's never happy anymore. He takes her out to dinner, buys her gifts - nothing helps. He tries to be more attentive in his own fumbling way, but it just annoys her. He stumbles onto the idea of counselling to save his M. She begrudgingly agrees. Now he has a single thread of hope - maybe a 'professional' can help him get to the bottom of why his marriage seems so rocky.

What he doesn't know is that she has brought a third party into the marriage. That knowledge would change everything. Then he would understand.

Now you know the BH a little better. Knowing this much, call him. Simply say "My name is Joey last name here. I am so sorry to tell you this, but for the past 10 months I have been involved in an affair with your wife her name here. I realize how damaging this has been to your marriage and I'm calling you now to apologize for the terrible destruction I have caused to your marriage. My actions were selfish and inexcusable. I want you to know that I will have no further contact with your wife and will no longer involve myself in your marriage."


ITA with this everything said here, very well written.

Any OP who is able to say this to the BS would truly be a person wanting to right their wrong.

And I agree that "close to divorcing" is STILL MARRIED. Her poor BH probably never even knew they were close to divorcing. I know I never did. frown
Thank you everyone for your advice. I know many people here have been betrayed in the past and despise people like me, but I appreciate all of you with your words and help in this. It is obvious I need to contact him first and lay everything out to him. There will not be a face to face meeting as we live in seperate states. Many of you have said I need to find a new job. Well, I just spoke to her today and it sounds like she is getting a new job with a different company. So I guess that will help things. I will be totally honest with all of you, my first thought when I found out she was getting a new job was "Damn, if she leaves the company we wont talk as much and she'll forget about me and we might not have a future together" Obviously I'm not totally where I need to be if that's what I'm thinking. I know I need to end this, but it's not going to be as easy as I initially thought it would be. A few things that have crossed my mind the past 24 hours:

1) He is going to be devastated when he finds out. From what she has told me in the past he is very emotional and threatens to hurt himself at times. Do I just end it with her and not tell him anything? I don't want him to hurt himself if he finds out about everything. I already hate myself for what I'm doing, if he hurts himself for what her and I have done I will never forgive myself for as long as I live.

2) I know this will sound like I'm delaying things and getting cold feet, but now that I know she may be leaving the company within 2 or 3 weeks I think I should wait until after she leaves before I cut it off with her. That way I don't risk getting fired or creating any office drama.

3) A lot of you have said I don't really love her. Well, I really do love her. I've felt things with her that I never felt with anyone else. I know I'm a moron for allowing myself to feel that way with a married person. But that is what it is and unfortunately I can't change that. Being that I still feel like I love her I don't want to hurt her.

All in all I still know what I need to do. I know what the right choice is. I know what I need to do to be a real man about all of this and try to right all of these wrongs. I think I eventually will be able to do it. I wish I could say I would do everything today, or this week, but I just don't think it will happen that soon. In my mind now I'm waiting until she leaves the company, then things will start to get rolling more.

What have I learned so far? I have learned I am a very immature person and I deserve this pain that feel now. I deserve some of the bad things some of you on here have said about me. I will never, ever say anything past "hello" to a married woman again. I obviously have boundary issues and I wont let something like this even start to happen again. Maybe I'll meet somebody else someday, but it doesn't feel like I will, and at this point that isn't my top priority. However if I do, she will know about this. I have to be honest about everything in future relationships. I wont hide anything. Anyways, I will keep you all posted with future developments from all this mess.
Originally Posted By: joey123
A few things that have crossed my mind the past 24 hours:

1) He is going to be devastated when he finds out. From what she has told me in the past he is very emotional and threatens to hurt himself at times.

YEAH RIGHT!!! I was told the other woman's husband was a depressive psychopath who would stop at nothing once he found out there was an affair and that he was dangerous, and HE was told I was on the edge and should be in the psych ward. Obviously this was true in neither case. Waywards will say anything.



2) I know this will sound like I'm delaying things and getting cold feet, but now that I know she may be leaving the company within 2 or 3 weeks I think I should wait until after she leaves before I cut it off with her. That way I don't risk getting fired or creating any office drama.

Just end it now. You are making excuses to continue the relationship for another 2 or 3 weeks. Imagine what would happen if her husband found out in those 2-3 weeks.

3) A lot of you have said I don't really love her. Well, I really do love her. I've felt things with her that I never felt with anyone else. I know I'm a moron for allowing myself to feel that way with a married person. But that is what it is and unfortunately I can't change that. Being that I still feel like I love her I don't want to hurt her.

You ARE hurting her being in the middle of her relationship. That is something she needs to end or continue because she wants to, not because she's all confused from sleeping with another man. THIS IS THE BEST THING YOU CAN DO FOR HER. Give her the chance to live her life RIGHT and happy!


1.) I still think you need to talk to him and expose everything. I think better now than later and better from you, so he can get the WHOLE truth than from her where he will get lies.

2.) End it, end it, end it. Until you do, you are still involved in their marriage and you have no right to be.

3.) You may feel that way but it is not love. PERIOD You need to check yourself, quick. Reread all the great advice you've been given here.

You're right, you do need to be a man, suck it up. You are worried about you hurting and are not thinking about what you are doing to her BH. Grow up.
You need to tell him regardless of what she said about him hurting himself. That is her manipulating you. And you said you talked to her today. Don't talk to her anymore. Period. Go to your boss today if you have to and tell him you cannot have any more contact.

The reason you are waiting is NOT because you want her to change jobs. It is because you know once you take those steps....it's over. And you don't want to let go. Do it anyway. Pick up the ohone before the day is out and tell him. And then change your contact info. If she contacts you, send her and her husband an offical letter requesting she stop.

I came on here 4 years ago asking about telling my DH. I was really hoping someone somewhere would tell me I didn't have to. They told me I did have to, and I freaked out and told all sorts of lies. Don't prolong everyone's agony. Just do it.

And do not talk to or communicate with her starting NOW.
Quote:
3) A lot of you have said I don't really love her. Well, I really do love her. I've felt things with her that I never felt with anyone else. I know I'm a moron for allowing myself to feel that way with a married person. But that is what it is and unfortunately I can't change that. Being that I still feel like I love her I don't want to hurt her.


It would be a lot easier for you to end this when you begin realizing that you are in love with a FANTASY....she is a LIAR. You only know things about her that a.) she wanted you to know and b.) she made up.

You've had a long-distance A...how much do you really "know" about her? Only what she allowed you to know; she covered up the really ugly parts and hid them from you. Although now you know she is a lying, cheating tr*mp...and you think you "love" that?

She is not who she claims to be...ask any FWS around here; they will tell you they reinvented themselves during their A and were not their true selves.

The sooner you "get" this the sooner you will be able to move on and hopefully find true love.
1. Yes, he will be devastated. You can't believe anything your MOW told you about him. You can't take responsibility for anything he does with the information.

2. DON'T WAIT. Waiting is self-serving baloney, hoping you can somehow have the whole thing disappear without having to face any consequences. That BH needs to know now, today, this minute.

3. You don't love her. You lust her, and you love your own feelings when you're around her. True love uplifts, and adultery only degrades.

4. Just in case you missed it the first time...
DON'T WAIT!!!!!!
Quote:
1) He is going to be devastated when he finds out. From what she has told me in the past he is very emotional and threatens to hurt himself at times. Do I just end it with her and not tell him anything? I don't want him to hurt himself if he finds out about everything. I already hate myself for what I'm doing, if he hurts himself for what her and I have done I will never forgive myself for as long as I live.


How do you know this? Because your affair partner told you? I though her marriage was ending as well? Waywards lie to their spouses AND their affair partners. Many BS's here have been portrayed as the villain to justify continuing their affair. You think she might have told you that to manipulate you into not telling him? Duh.

Quote:
2) I know this will sound like I'm delaying things and getting cold feet, but now that I know she may be leaving the company within 2 or 3 weeks I think I should wait until after she leaves before I cut it off with her. That way I don't risk getting fired or creating any office drama.


Delaying things and getting cold feet is EXACTLY what you are doing. This is just another excuse to procrastinate. You are not going to get fired. Trust us, there are many of us who have tried to get the OM/OW fired and it just doesn't happen unless one is the other's boss, and even then it rarely happens. DO IT NOW.

Quote:
3) A lot of you have said I don't really love her. Well, I really do love her. I've felt things with her that I never felt with anyone else. I know I'm a moron for allowing myself to feel that way with a married person. But that is what it is and unfortunately I can't change that. Being that I still feel like I love her I don't want to hurt her.


You don't love her. I don't think you understand what true love is. True love is not the high of a new relationship, the good feeling you get when your needs are met. That is infatuation. Affairs are just an addiction of getting your needs met outside your marriage. You don't even know this person, other than she's a cheater. She just puts on a good face for you. You don't have to deal with her negatives, her husband does. Once you separate yourself from this woman and get through withdrawal you will feel entirely different about her and see her for who she truly is, I promise. There are many former wayward spouses here that will tell you the same.

You have taken the first step by coming here. Now you need to finish the job.
Originally Posted By: joey123
I know many people here have been betrayed in the past and despise people like me,


Guilty!

Originally Posted By: joey123
It is obvious I need to contact him first and lay everything out to him.


If you haven't done it already it's not obvious.

Originally Posted By: joey123
Well, I just spoke to her today and it sounds like she is getting a new job with a different company.


Who cares?


Originally Posted By: joey123
3) A lot of you have said I don't really love her. Well, I really do love her.


You don't have the right to love her!
Joey,

I don't hate you. I don't like you very much, but I don't hate you.

I also don't believe that you cannot lift yourself up out of this mess you created.

I'm going to tell you, you DON'T truly love this woman. No TRUE love allows the object of their love to degrade and willingly damn/damage themselves.

Your stolemeat is just that...stolen. You've stolen from her husband and her children. You steal from them every time you talk to her and through every sneak-thief actions you two do to see each other. Every time she glances your direction is TIME and affection that YOU steal from her family. HER FAMILY.

And she doesn't love you. What kind of woman who really loves a man would deign to let him become a sneak-thief for her?

There is no real love here. Just damage. You two are rutting bulls in the china shop of her family's life...you are ruining good people for hormones.

Real humans don't willingly and knowingly cause harm to each other.

Human up dude. You can be better than that. When you do, you'll probably find yourself a worthy man for someone WORTHY.
If I could follow you around with a poker until you do this, I would. I wasted time four years ago. DON'T put it off.
Quote:
I will be totally honest with all of you, my first thought when I found out she was getting a new job was "Damn, if she leaves the company we wont talk as much and she'll forget about me and we might not have a future together"

Because you are a foggy OM with poor boundaries. Integrity and Stand-up-guy-ness will come as you learn more about how to build strong boundaries and respect for marriage.

Quote:
)1 He is going to be devastated when he finds out. From what she has told me in the past he is very emotional and threatens to hurt himself at times.

I doubt that anything you tell him will drive him to harm himself. I also doubt that his emotional state is anything like what she's painted it out to be. Remember, she had to come up with a little creative fiction in order to justify her affair. I suspect one of those fictions was her BH's emotional state.

Quote:
2) I know this will sound like I'm delaying things and getting cold feet, but now that I know she may be leaving the company within 2 or 3 weeks I think I should wait until after she leaves before I cut it off with her. That way I don't risk getting fired or creating any office drama.

No no no. Don't even go there. TODAY is your day, Joey. TODAY. Don't screw around and get sucked back into the vortex.

Quote:
3) A lot of you have said I don't really love her. Well, I really do love her. I've felt things with her that I never felt with anyone else.

You think that was love? Wait til you really find your special person!


Quote:
All in all I still know what I need to do. I know what the right choice is. I know what I need to do to be a real man about all of this and try to right all of these wrongs.

Cojones. Get them. Do what you need to do. You think it's going to be easier tomorrow, or the next day, or the next?

Quote:
Maybe I'll meet somebody else someday, but it doesn't feel like I will, and at this point that isn't my top priority.

Good on ya. Don't even worry about that right now.
Oh, and Joey? STOP TALKING TO HER!! Every contact is just another fix for your addiction!
Originally Posted By: joey123

1) He is going to be devastated when he finds out. From what she has told me in the past he is very emotional and threatens to hurt himself at times. Do I just end it with her and not tell him anything? I don't want him to hurt himself if he finds out about everything. I already hate myself for what I'm doing, if he hurts himself for what her and I have done I will never forgive myself for as long as I live.


This is all the more reason to tell him the truth. If he knows he can protect himself from you and his wife. It is a little too late to start professing "concern" about his best interest. If he hurts himself it will be because he was screwed over by you and his wife.

Regardless, he has a right and a need to know. It harms him not knowing what is being done behind his back.

Nor do I think you should wait a day. There is no reason to wait. No matter when you do it, there may be consequences.

Quote:
3) A lot of you have said I don't really love her. Well, I really do love her. I've felt things with her that I never felt with anyone else.


Feelings are not truth, though. Your "love" is demonstrated through your actions, not your feelings. And your actions bely your true feelings towards her. That is NOT LOVE what you have done to her and with her.

Quote:
I know many people here have been betrayed in the past and despise people like me, but I appreciate all of you with your words and help in this.


One does not have to have been betrayed to despise adulterers. Anger at injustice and cruelty is the reaction of DECENT people. It is a sign of decency. For example, I have never been murdered, but I despise murder and murderers.

What I do respect, though, is someone who is willing to ADMIT their wrongs and make them right. THAT is a sign of character. And I we will see through your ACTIONS if you have that. I am starting to have my doubts after reading some of your comments about DELAYING telling the BH. There is no reason to delay this other than a ploy to avoid consequences. Avoiding consequences is not a good sign.

I think you did the right thing in coming here and getting honest, but I disagree with others that it "takes great courage" to come here and post about this. It takes no courage at all to post anonymously on an anonymous board. It does take great courage to face the people you have wronged and offer to right those wrongs. I hope you DO show great courage in making this right. The jury is still out...
Poor Joey...

You do realize she's changing jobs to get away from YOU.

All of the sudden...she's leaving in two or three weeks when you didn't even know she was job hunting.

Hope you aren't considering this exposure nice guy route as an attempt to SAVE the already ending affair.

Is she pulling away from you and you don't like it?

Hope I'm wrong about you and you actually have good intentions but either way...it appears to be over regardless of what you do.

The sooner YOU end this the better as you'll be relating and retelling this debacle/mistake the rest of your life. Might as well have the story you tell end well with YOU being the one to end it, YOU being the one to expose it, YOU being the one willing to accept whatever consequences come your way and YOU being the one that FINALLY did the right thing rather than you sheepishly tiptoeing away.

What do you want YOUR LIFE STORY to be?

Mr. Wondering
Originally Posted By: joey123
I have learned I am a very immature person and I deserve this pain that feel now.

No argument here.
You can change this by doing what you know is right, and doing it now.

You have NO idea how cruel you are continuing to be towards this BH.

Adultery is about selfishness, every man out for himself, his/her own feelings, without giving a crap about anyone else.

Go back and read your last post Joey, you are concerned for own well being, at the EXPENSE of a BETRAYED HUSBAND.
You are scared of the repercussions, unbelievable when you consider what hell lies ahead of your victim in all of this.

Tell the poor man now, and figure your own stuff out after that.
I guarantee you, that you will feel better after telling the truth.

Lies make us sick, lies destroy us.

You have no right to love this woman, you have no right to steal a married woman from her H.

Would you steal a child from a father?

Step up to the plate Joey.
Originally Posted By: joey123
Thank you everyone for your advice. I know many people here have been betrayed in the past and despise people like me, but I appreciate all of you with your words and help in this.


I might like you a lot. I simply don't like what you are doing, nor do I like the continuing justification, excuses, whatever.

Separate the two and stop feeling sorry for your self. If you feel bad about what you've done, what you are doing, THEN STOP.

Sometimes, it's really that simple.
Originally Posted By: joey123


It is obvious I need to contact him first and lay everything out to him.


I'll believe it's obvious when you actually do it.
Originally Posted By: joey123


There will not be a face to face meeting as we live in seperate states.



Excuse, you and the MOW live is separate states and you had the time and treasure to see her, so give him the courtesy of looking him in the eye when you tell him what you've done.

Stop with the excuses.
Originally Posted By: joey123


Many of you have said I need to find a new job. Well, I just spoke to her today and it sounds like she is getting a new job with a different company. So I guess that will help things. I will be totally honest with all of you, my first thought when I found out she was getting a new job was "Damn, if she leaves the company we wont talk as much and she'll forget about me and we might not have a future together" Obviously I'm not totally where I need to be if that's what I'm thinking. I know I need to end this, but it's not going to be as easy as I initially thought it would be.



It can be as easy or as hard as you want it to be. Change your numbers, get new e-mail, block her e-mails. (Filters that send them to trash immediately, etc.)

What's hard it seems is for you to grow a pair and do what is right. Once you decide to do that, the rest will fall into place, I'm confident.

Stop with the excuses and start producing results.
Originally Posted By: joey123


A few things that have crossed my mind the past 24 hours:

1) He is going to be devastated when he finds out. From what she has told me in the past he is very emotional and threatens to hurt himself at times. Do I just end it with her and not tell him anything? I don't want him to hurt himself if he finds out about everything. I already hate myself for what I'm doing, if he hurts himself for what her and I have done I will never forgive myself for as long as I live.


I'll approach this two ways. Think logically for a moment. If this were true, would she be having an affair with you? Knowing he's dangerous.

Second, if this is how she treats someone who is knowingly like this, what does that say about her character? What does it say about her concern for those she has vowed to love? It doesn't paint a very pretty picture of her.

Either she has bad judgment, or is plain selfish. Are those qualities you find endearing?

The third possibility is that she's lying.

None of these are signs she's a good partner.

END IT NOW.
Originally Posted By: joey123


2) I know this will sound like I'm delaying things and getting cold feet, but now that I know she may be leaving the company within 2 or 3 weeks I think I should wait until after she leaves before I cut it off with her. That way I don't risk getting fired or creating any office drama.


Excuses, you can cut it off without drama from your end. Simply stop calling, stop answering the phone, stop reading her e-mails.

If she creates drama, then let her suffer the consequences of her decision to create drama.
Originally Posted By: joey123


3) A lot of you have said I don't really love her. Well, I really do love her. I've felt things with her that I never felt with anyone else. I know I'm a moron for allowing myself to feel that way with a married person. But that is what it is and unfortunately I can't change that. Being that I still feel like I love her I don't want to hurt her.


Maybe you do, maybe you don't. My money is you don't really understand what love is about. Why do I say that? Because if you understood love, you wouldn't have been spending time with her, but actually working on your own marriage.

Likewise, if you understood love, you would have recognized that what she was doing to her husband was NOT a loving act.

The mere fact that she admitted she was going to counseling only to say she had done everything is a big red flag. She was doing it to make herself look good. That's not a Disrespectful Judgment, it's what she said in her own words. She wants to be able to say she tried everything. She was saving face.

Originally Posted By: joey123


All in all I still know what I need to do. I know what the right choice is. I know what I need to do to be a real man about all of this and try to right all of these wrongs. I think I eventually will be able to do it. I wish I could say I would do everything today, or this week, but I just don't think it will happen that soon. In my mind now I'm waiting until she leaves the company, then things will start to get rolling more.


More excuses. I can't tell you when to end it. I do know that bad news doesn't get any better with age. Neither do affairs.

At the very least, make arrangements to see her husband, face to face, at the earliest possible time. This weekend if you can.
Originally Posted By: joey123


What have I learned so far? I have learned I am a very immature person and I deserve this pain that feel now. I deserve some of the bad things some of you on here have said about me. I will never, ever say anything past "hello" to a married woman again. I obviously have boundary issues and I wont let something like this even start to happen again. Maybe I'll meet somebody else someday, but it doesn't feel like I will, and at this point that isn't my top priority. However if I do, she will know about this. I have to be honest about everything in future relationships. I wont hide anything. Anyways, I will keep you all posted with future developments from all this mess.


I'll believe it when I see it. How long until there are more excuses not to follow up on what you've learned about yourself.

There is no better time to start doing the right thing than right now.

Until you do that, I'll not be convinced you really get it.
Joey,
Follow the advice given to you on this forum. It is coming from rational people with life experiance.

My advice is coming from the BH standpoint.
If my WWs OM had called me and told me about the A I would have been devastated, but that would pass, and did. I can say that once the shock wore off that I would have had some respect for the OM (you) for doing what is right.

My WW is still wayward, as is your MOW. Once you call your BH, this will end your A. Be sure to change you contact info, but give your BH your email and/or phone number. He will have many questions for you that you will have to answer honestly. I can't tell you how far this will go towards healing for your BH,

You say that you don't want to hurt them. So help them, trust me, if I knew exactly what my WW was doing/did, it would go along way towards rebuilding our marriage (trust), and my own peace of mind. You see, I have never really believed that she fully confessed to her affairs and I have held that over her head for the past 5 years.

Follow the feeling that brought you to this forum and start your thread. Now call your BH. Be the man you are trying to be, the man your mother thinks you are.
I stand by my life's rule, "Look around you. If no one else is standing up and doing the right thing, then it's up to YOU."
Do not have this confrontation in person. There is too much potential for a bad outcome involving law enforcement.

Call him. Now.
Originally Posted By: MrWondering
Poor Joey...

You do realize she's changing jobs to get away from YOU.

All of the sudden...she's leaving in two or three weeks when you didn't even know she was job hunting.

Hope you aren't considering this exposure nice guy route as an attempt to SAVE the already ending affair.

Is she pulling away from you and you don't like it?

Hope I'm wrong about you and you actually have good intentions but either way...it appears to be over regardless of what you do.

The sooner YOU end this the better as you'll be relating and retelling this debacle/mistake the rest of your life. Might as well have the story you tell end well with YOU being the one to end it, YOU being the one to expose it, YOU being the one willing to accept whatever consequences come your way and YOU being the one that FINALLY did the right thing rather than you sheepishly tiptoeing away.

What do you want YOUR LIFE STORY to be?

Mr. Wondering


She most likely already has another new affair partner all set up in the new location.....please do THE RIGHT THING HERE....stop thinking of yourself (that is what you are doing still) and call the Husband today....and then ask God to forgive you for this horrible sin you have committed....JUST DO IT!
Originally Posted By: lurioosi2
Markos, your advice not to have sex unless you are married is brilliant. I wonder just how many miserable situations in life would be avoided if people just heeded that one piece of advice.


Thanks; the advice didn't originate with me, though. It came from a far more Brilliant Mind. smile (Not that I think that's news. But apparently the whole idea is news to some people..)
Originally Posted By: joey123
I will be totally honest with all of you, my first thought when I found out she was getting a new job was "Damn, if she leaves the company we wont talk as much and she'll forget about me and we might not have a future together" Obviously I'm not totally where I need to be if that's what I'm thinking.


Hooray!! I'm so glad you realize this!

Quote:
1) He is going to be devastated when he finds out. From what she has told me in the past he is very emotional and threatens to hurt himself at times. Do I just end it with her and not tell him anything? I don't want him to hurt himself if he finds out about everything. I already hate myself for what I'm doing, if he hurts himself for what her and I have done I will never forgive myself for as long as I live.


Adultery is somewhat like a mental virus. It does what it needs to do in order to survive and keep hold on the hosts it has infected (you and this woman). One of its defense mechanisms is to turn one or both of you into complete liars. You need to understand that she vowed to be faithful to her husband and then turned that into a lie. Therefore everything she says is likely to be a lie.

Do you see how, if adultery was a creature that wanted to stay alive, it could help itself stay alive longer by getting its female host to lie to you and say her husband gets emotional and might hurt himself?

You've got a virus in your mind. You are in the right place to get it out. Going to need to get away from the carrier to make that work. Don't listen to anything she's said that makes you less likely to follow this plan here.

By the way, I've been reading this site intently for only 3 months, and I've already seen at least 10 adulteries where an adulterer told his "partner" that his wife was instable, emotional, might do something drastic, might hurt herself, etc. It happens ALL THE TIME. The virus does nearly the exact same thing nearly every time it infects someone.
Originally Posted By: joey123
Maybe I'll meet somebody else someday, but it doesn't feel like I will, and at this point that isn't my top priority. However if I do, she will know about this. I have to be honest about everything in future relationships. I wont hide anything.


Awesome, Joey! Way to be a real man!!
Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: joey123
Maybe I'll meet somebody else someday, but it doesn't feel like I will, and at this point that isn't my top priority. However if I do, she will know about this. I have to be honest about everything in future relationships. I wont hide anything.


Awesome, Joey! Way to be a real man!!


I agree Markos. Way to go Joey.

FTR: I have dear, dear, dear friends who were once wayward (not to mention a Wookie). What they did does not define them. It is how they made things right that does.
Joey, does your OW post here?
I am reserving my praise for some real praiseworthy BEHAVIOR. I have not seen that yet. As we say in Texas, talk is cheap.

joey, putting off telling the BH just increases the opportunities for a resumption of an affair and increases the risk you give into your addiction and change your mind. Justice delayed is justice denied.

How about putting some ACTION behind all these nice words? Lets see how sincere you really are about doing the right thing.
J6:

You have gotten the good advice.

You know what you gotta do.

Your OW isn't leaving the company. She isn't going anywhere, she smells your cold feet.

Your supposed to respond: "Don't GO!, how will we talk!"

But you didn't.

And your HERE at MB.

Getting good advice.

I had an A with a MOW that went on for 4.5 years. It started with the "just friends" and "chatting" and then it went full blown PA.

I practically killed my BW while all this was going on.

Probably the same reason that your M went down the tubes....

But you STILL do not recognize this. And until you are out from under the spell of this OW, and maybe learned alot more about relationships here at MB, you never will recognize it.

But if you do, If you DO start to recognize the flaws in yourself that allowed you to fall into this EA, then, destroy your M, and continue to tamper with this other M, you will continue on this course of self destruction.

Your 28 years old. You can fix this. The flaws that led to my affair were there LONG before the A started. If it wasn't this OW, it was going to be another. Finding this site before Dday changed that person. It has been a LONG HARD climb out of the slime. The slime that actually looked pretty good when you are in it. It not until you are well away from the slime, that you recognize it for what it is.

Your tied at the hip with this woman. You work with her, and will continue to do so. No where in this thread have you said that YOU will leave YOUR job. She's not leaving hers. So it is ALL UP TO YOU.

Come into the light. Climb out of the slime.

It really is better.

LG
As far as I know she does not post here. Something I failed to mention (which I guess gives me hope, or maybe false hope) is her Brother is very supportive of us. She is very close with her Brother and has told him a lot about us. I've never met him, but I have sent him messages on Facebook. This was about a month ago. I basically told him I care a lot about his Sister and I hope he doesn't think bad of me. His response was he supports us and knows she isn't happy and has heard a lot of great things about me. Her parents know I exist. They don't know the extent of us, but they know she has feelings for me. I know, just makes the whole thing even that more messed up when family is supporting her. I know this will open me up to more criticizing, but I want to be as honest with all of you as I can.

Since I'm being honest, I will tell you that I really want to do something soon, just don't know if I can or if I'm ready for that yet. Every single one of you that has posted has said I need to tell him today, the sooner the better. I wish I could do that. I am still waffling back and forth. One minute I get this hope built up in my mind that she will leave him and we'll start this fantastic life together. The next minute I start to feel like garbage again and want to pick up the phone and call him. I know my waffling will anger all of you, but again I'm just telling the truth and being honest.

Another common thing I've read is, "Why do you want to be with someone who has cheated and will cheat on you"? The answer to that is I don't know. I guess I'm just very foggy now and I'm not thinking completly rationally.

I feel like I'm taking a step forward towards ending this, then taking three steps back. I'm trying to get there, I promise. My mind is all over the place. Melody is right not to praise me. I don't deserve any praise for anything I've done. I know have talked a lot and not taken any action. I've been thinking about doing something for a long time now. Yesterday was when I really got to the point where I felt something had to be done soon, which is why I posted here. Please criticize me all you want. I can handle it. Maybe more of that will get something through this thick head of mine.
You are just making excuses (her family liking you and that you are not ready to do anything to break up with her now).

No good will come out of it.

The further you go into the future with her.....the less likely you will be truly happy. Each moment with her adds to the fog and the fallout you will eventually need to face once the fogs clears and some day....it probably will. It it didn't, it would not change the reality of it. You and she are involved and should not be. Put your energy into a truly beautiful, loving, kind and fulfilling relationship what isn't built on this cruel foundation.
Originally Posted By: joey123
Please criticize me all you want. I can handle it. Maybe more of that will get something through this thick head of mine.


Okay. Is the tail you're getting worth your self respect? Can you look in the mirror in the morning and feel good about yourself? Would your parents be proud of you?

End it. Tell the BH what you've been doing, as well as about her enabling brother and family. Be man enough to give another man the truth about what's going on in his life, and stop picking at his leavings like a jackal.

I see glimmers of hope for you, but like ML said, you need to take action instead of going wobbly. Trust me, the momentary pain, discomfort, and shame of ending it and confessing to the BH is a lot better than the endless limbo you're in right now.
Originally Posted By: joey123
As far as I know she does not post here. Something I failed to mention (which I guess gives me hope, or maybe false hope) is her Brother is very supportive of us. She is very close with her Brother and has told him a lot about us. I've never met him, but I have sent him messages on Facebook. This was about a month ago. I basically told him I care a lot about his Sister and I hope he doesn't think bad of me. His response was he supports us and knows she isn't happy and has heard a lot of great things about me. Her parents know I exist. They don't know the extent of us, but they know she has feelings for me. I know, just makes the whole thing even that more messed up when family is supporting her. I know this will open me up to more criticizing, but I want to be as honest with all of you as I can.

Since I'm being honest, I will tell you that I really want to do something soon, just don't know if I can or if I'm ready for that yet. Every single one of you that has posted has said I need to tell him today, the sooner the better. I wish I could do that. I am still waffling back and forth. One minute I get this hope built up in my mind that she will leave him and we'll start this fantastic life together. The next minute I start to feel like garbage again and want to pick up the phone and call him. I know my waffling will anger all of you, but again I'm just telling the truth and being honest.

Another common thing I've read is, "Why do you want to be with someone who has cheated and will cheat on you"? The answer to that is I don't know. I guess I'm just very foggy now and I'm not thinking completly rationally.

I feel like I'm taking a step forward towards ending this, then taking three steps back. I'm trying to get there, I promise. My mind is all over the place. Melody is right not to praise me. I don't deserve any praise for anything I've done. I know have talked a lot and not taken any action. I've been thinking about doing something for a long time now. Yesterday was when I really got to the point where I felt something had to be done soon, which is why I posted here. Please criticize me all you want. I can handle it. Maybe more of that will get something through this thick head of mine.


Do you know what this smiley face is called? dramaqueen

Just do it already. Rip the bandaid off.

Since you "think" you know how her family feels about you, why don't you tell YOUR family about your "relationship"? Let's see how "accepting" they are.
What her family thinks of you is immaterial. What YOU think of you is critical. How do you feel about the face that looks back at you in the mirror? Are you proud of that person? I suspect the answer is 'not completely' and I suspect it's because of the A. Otherwise you wouldn't be on here, using the posting title you used.

Somewhere deep inside you are the morals that used to guide you. You managed to squash those morals in order to get what you thought would be good for you (a good example of rotten thinking). You temporarily derailed yourself. Do you think you would feel better if she left her husband to be with you? Do you think it would make it right and you could look at yourself with pride every morning? I don't think so. If you do, then why haven't you called him and told him who you are, loud and proud?

It also isn't important what we think of you, joey. But yeah, you're going to get the gamut, here, from people who despise what you represent to people who are totally neutral and who want to pull you off the track of the train that is bearing down on you. Why? Because we know you? No. Because it'll affect our lives one way or another? No. We're doing it because we know where you are and where you are going to be if you continued your course unchecked. We don't want to see that train wreck if we can help it, because we are all survivors, either betrayed or betrayer, who would never wish that on another soul.

Your golden opportunity is staring you in the face, joey. Whatrya gonna do?
Originally Posted By: joey123
One minute I get this hope built up in my mind that she will leave him and we'll start this fantastic life together.
Do you like facts and statistics Joey?

Most men do, I do.

Have you ever researched the percentage of relationships that start out as affairs that reach marriage? Or how about that reach a 5yr Marriage anniversary? How about 10yrs?

You really should, but I'll give you a hint. The 10yr mark is so low, that your more likely to win the lottery than make the 10yr Affariage Mark.
Joey, I'm getting the sense you came here hoping for different advice, maybe that it's okay and that love conquers all, so go ahead and stay with this woman. You don't seem ready to take action. You don't even seem to really WANT to take action. You're just "talking" about it.

Man up. End it.

And if you don't want to, then stop wasting time here asking for people's help. Live with the consequences.
Melody Lane,
I stand by my opinion. He was asking advice, and sticking to that would have been helpful rather than tearing him down. He's admitted his wrong and it's fine to help him see how encompassing his wrongs were and what the affects were, but to just attack him isn't helpful. Jim's post was edifying, it gave him something constructive to do.
Quote:
Something I failed to mention (which I guess gives me hope, or maybe false hope) is her Brother is very supportive of us. She is very close with her Brother and has told him a lot about us. I've never met him, but I have sent him messages on Facebook. This was about a month ago. I basically told him I care a lot about his Sister and I hope he doesn't think bad of me. His response was he supports us and knows she isn't happy and has heard a lot of great things about me.


Niiiiiiiiice, so she comes from a family of adultery supporters.

And if you continue this relationsh*t I am sure he will be just as supporter of her NEXT affair. sigh
You're foggy as all get-out, and yet a small part of you still sees that what you're doing is wrong. If you don't listen to that small part, the fog will only get thicker. It will poison every part of your life.

It doesn't matter how many sick, unhealthy, weak people like her brother buy into the happycrap of "just follow your heart". It's wrong, straight up, with you right there in the thick of it. The fog won't really start to clear till you make concrete steps to extricate yourself from this adulterous mess.

Make the call.
Originally Posted By: kaycstamper
Melody Lane,
I stand by my opinion. He was asking advice, and sticking to that would have been helpful rather than tearing him down. He's admitted his wrong and it's fine to help him see how encompassing his wrongs were and what the affects were, but to just attack him isn't helpful. Jim's post was edifying, it gave him something constructive to do.


He hasn't been attacked in the least. He is the ATTACKER to a BH whom he refuses to stop attacking.
There is a BH on here right now. igrip is his screen name and he just discovered through e-mails his wife's affair. Read through his thread and imagine that he is the BH you're causing so much anguish...who knows, maybe he is?
Originally Posted By: kaycstamper
Melody Lane,
I stand by my opinion. He was asking advice, and sticking to that would have been helpful rather than tearing him down. He's admitted his wrong and it's fine to help him see how encompassing his wrongs were and what the affects were, but to just attack him isn't helpful. Jim's post was edifying, it gave him something constructive to do.


Disagree, Kay; he was not "attacked." Nor are you qualified to tell others what is or isn't helpful. C'mon. He is foggy and that will be pointed out. Making accurate statements about his behavior is not "tearing him down." What tears him down is his scummy behavior.

You are out of line trying to dictate to others how they should post. That is not your job. IF you feel a poster is "attacked" you should notify the mods and let them do their jobs rather than trying to tell others how to post. It is only a disruption to the thread trying to force others to post according to your standards.
Joey, do the right thing here and never speak to this married woman again.

Call her husband today.

You are acting like a complete scumbag.

Are you a complete scumbag?
Quote:
One minute I get this hope built up in my mind that she will leave him and we'll start this fantastic life together.


You would have better odds putting a suitcase of money down on a lame goat ridden by a disabled research monkey at the Preakness then having a fantastic life with this skank.

Fantastic Life! ? ? I'm going all [censored] Mora!

A fantastic life based on deceit, lies, betrayal, suspicion, guilt and the total destruction of another man and his family?? Oh but you are cool to her brother so you have that going for you.

I’m glad we’re not in the same room right now.



Since you and I both agree with your level of maturity, let me share this with you.

Below is a post from a young BH trying to save his M, from the wayward thinking of his wife and the wayward thinking of the other man, just like yourself.

Quote:
But I love my wife. I value her and our relationship. I've made a lot of promises that I intend to keep. "For better or worse" doesn't just go out the window when "worse" comes along. I'll fight until I can't fight anymore, and hope that she comes around. It won't be fast and it won't be easy, and it'll hurt more than a little. But that's usually how doing the right thing goes, in my experience.


See, I think maturity does not come from age.

I think maturity comes from the more right we do in our lives.

They are directly related.

The more right we do = the more mature we are

The more wrong we do = the less mature we are

You are choosing to remain immature. You are choosing to lie. You are choosing to hurt another man.

p.s. the young BH who posted that, is a few years younger than yourself.
Originally Posted By: chrisner
I’m glad we’re not in the same room right now.

Me too! Thank you for saying that, I find Joey's thinking so mind boggling. MrRollieEyes

In life in general, to do the right thing is sooooo much easier than to do the wrong thing.

It's a no brainer, ya know. wink
Joey

1) my DH's family told me to leave my DH when he was having his affair. They told me he had made his choice, that they wouldnt take sides, that they wanted him to be happy. 2 years later he is happy...with me. His wife. I dont think they are overly depressed from not ever getting to really get to know PQ (his OW)

2) the stats for a successful relationship between you and your married woman...less than 1% that your together after 6 years. Only about 3% your even together after 2 years.

Worth losing your integrity over?

affair relationships
joey, my grandmother had an expression that will fit here....

Stop talking from both sides of your mouth.

Forget this woman who USED you.

Do the right thing and call her DH today.

Have no contact from this moment on. Block your phone.

Who cares you FB'd her brother or that her family supports you. Guess she had the upbringing that brought her to this place.

No more excuses
Originally Posted By: joey123
As far as I know she does not post here. Something I failed to mention (which I guess gives me hope, or maybe false hope)


It doesn't matter if it's false hope or real hope. It's WRONG hope.

twoxfour

Quote:
is her Brother is very supportive of us. She is very close with her Brother and has told him a lot about us. I've never met him, but I have sent him messages on Facebook. This was about a month ago. I basically told him I care a lot about his Sister and I hope he doesn't think bad of me. His response was he supports us and knows she isn't happy and has heard a lot of great things about me. Her parents know I exist. They don't know the extent of us, but they know she has feelings for me. I know, just makes the whole thing even that more messed up when family is supporting her.


Yeah, who would want those scumbags as inlaws!

Quote:
I know this will open me up to more criticizing, but I want to be as honest with all of you as I can.


My criticism is for them.

I will only criticize you if you think the above info makes any difference at all as to what you should do.

You don't believe it makes a difference, do you? I surely hope not.

Quote:
One minute I get this hope built up in my mind that she will leave him and we'll start this fantastic life together.


It would still be wrong, though, wouldn't it?

Look, are you ending this because you want to do the right thing, or because you think it won't work? There is a difference.
Originally Posted By: joey123
She is very close with her Brother and has told him a lot about us. I've never met him, but I have sent him messages on Facebook. This was about a month ago. I basically told him I care a lot about his Sister and I hope he doesn't think bad of me.


What a great guy. crazy I guess he just wants her to be "happy," right? I suppose we should feel fortunate she is not a serial killer with non-caring, enabling scumbag family members like this because they would be blowing her off with inanities like "we just want her to be happy!" sick
A couple more quotes from another BH:

Quote:
I still don't know what to do. This is going to ruin everything as I will have to sell the house we reno'd which is the house I grew up in and always wanted to live in etc. the kids will be screwed up...and probably end up hating her, I will probably end up hating her...its starting to feel that way sometimes already...I can't stop crying about this whole sit. it seems so surreal...if you were to ask anyone from our school days who would be likely to still be together in 80 years they would all say me and WW. I can't believe this is happening...I sometimes wonder what next...all I have left to lose in life is my sister, kids and myself.


Quote:
I just wish i would wake up from this horrible nightmare.


You have already caused another man this kind of pain. Every minute that you don't tell him what happened and then STAY OUT OF HIS MARRIAGE makes it that much worse.

Call now.
Originally Posted By: MelodyLane
Originally Posted By: joey123
She is very close with her Brother and has told him a lot about us. I've never met him, but I have sent him messages on Facebook. This was about a month ago. I basically told him I care a lot about his Sister and I hope he doesn't think bad of me.


What a great guy. crazy I guess he just wants her to be "happy," right? I suppose we should feel fortunate she is not a serial killer with non-caring, enabling scumbag family members like this because they would be blowing her off with inanities like "we just want her to be happy!" sick


Yep. My Idiot XBL was very helpful and supportive of Wayzilla too. Of course he was in an adulterous relationship with a MOW at the same time so he had all kinds of tips and secrets of the trade for Wayzilla.


Quote:
"we just want her to be happy!"
A direct quote of my XMIL.
I may have missed it but does your MOW have kids?

If she does, even more reason to give up the fantasy that you'll live 'happily ever after'. You've just destroyed their family and when they realize it they will despise you.

Whether she has kids or not, you call her BH because it is the right thing to do.

Don't THINK about it - your foggy mind got you into this mess to begin with.

Just pick up the phone and dial the number.

Squash the lying voices in your head that are telling you it can work out with her.

They're telling you "She's the one" "You'll never love anyone like her" "You can make it work". Deep down you know these are lies. Admitting that to yourself and calling the BH is the only way to get her out of your life.

So do it.... NOW

There are other women out there, women you can love freely, women you can build an amazing marriage with based on love and care and a desire to lift one another up and inspire one another to be better. Right now what you have is two children, sneaking around, lying and dragging each other through the mud. It isn't beautiful and it isn't love - polish a turd all you want... guess what it still is...

I know I'm one voice among many but please, do what's right.
She does not have any children, thank goodnes. Neither do I. Everything everyone has said makes perfect sense, and believe it or not it does get through to me and makes me want to do the right thing more and more. I wish I could tell all of you that I will be making a call later today, but I don't think that will happen. I think in time it will though. As bad as this sounds, I need to prepare myself from not speaking to or seeing her ever again. Although I am half of a disgusting situation and a bad person (not trying for sympathy points here) I need to know in my mind that I can handle all that comes with me coming clean on everything. I am already extremely depressed about everything. Not just because I feel like I'm losing someone I care about, but more so because I know that my horrible actions are going to cause someone an extreme amount of pain. Once this happens it will make me even more depressed and I need to know that I will be able to handle that. I need to know that I will be able to hear her husband on the other line and know how I am going to handle telling him all of these horrible things.

I know at the moment I am scared and delaying what needs to be done. I know I need to grow a pair. Trust me when I say I am working towards that. Unfortunately I'm the kind of person that needs to sit on things (no matter what it is) before I actually do something. I need to get things clear and straight in my mind before I make this painful call. I know in my mind I will eventually make this call, just not today. And I know I'm being even more of a horrible person for not doing this already and dragging it out even a day longer...
Originally Posted By: joey123
I am already extremely depressed about everything. Not just because I feel like I'm losing someone I care about, but more so because I know that my horrible actions are going to cause someone an extreme amount of pain.


Joey,
her BH is ALREADY IN PAIN. He has NO idea why his loving, caring wife has become so mean and cruel towards him, why he can do NOTHING that makes her happy.

You telling him the TRUTH will be like a lightbulb going off for him. Yes he will hurt from the knowledge... you know what? When I found out about my DH's A I was so angry to think that everyone else but me knew...like they were laughing at me behind my back!

Right now there is someone is his marriage he doesnt know about, and certainly never agreed to have be a part of it. Everytime he has sex with his wife, he is having sex with YOU!

and vies versa

TELL HIM
Joey,

my horrible actions are going to cause someone an extreme amount of pain

For goodness sakes help that guy out before he has children with that woman, or has your children with him, direct him to this website.

When I asked my wife 20 years after her affair if she ever felt the same sexually for me as she did pre-affair, and she said nothing the silence was deafining. These issues do not just go away they continue to pay dividends for years.

Gamma
Joey-You have already done wrong to this man. You need to make it RIGHT. The only way to do that is to tell him and to stop talking to HER.

I don't know if you have read much of the free info on here. You will see that what you feel for her is like an addict with a drug. That's why you don't want to give it up. You are terribly addicted. And just like a drug, this affair is doing you no good. That's why you feel this way. You need to make it right. Do it NOW. Save yourself, your affair partner and her BH any more pain. The sooner you end this, the sooner you can begin to recover yourself.

You can do this.
Originally Posted By: joey123
I know at the moment I am scared and delaying what needs to be done. I know I need to grow a pair. Trust me when I say I am working towards that.


Joey, courage is a decision you CHOOSE, not something you work towards. You are at a fork in the road and you have the power to choose. Growing a pair is not a process, it is a daily CHOICE.
Joey, you will never be "prepared" to end it. You have to ignore every feeling you have, and just jump off the cliff. Trust me on this, if you wait until your feelings are in line, it will never happen. It's like I tell me students, the reason you do the right thing is BECAUSE it's the right thing.

When I told OM I was going to tell my H (which I don't recommend talking to her again - ever), I didn't FEEL like it. I felt sick, like part of my life was ending. But something in me knew I was at a crossroads. I had this small window during which I could do what was right, or part of my life was going to be over.

Don't say you need time. You really don't. You just need to do it.
Originally Posted By: joey123
Not just because I feel like I'm losing someone I care about, but more so because I know that my horrible actions are going to cause someone an extreme amount of pain.


This is an EXCUSE to avoid doing the right thing. You have already hurt the man, this is only about telling the truth to your victim.
Originally Posted By: joey123

I know at the moment I am scared and delaying what needs to be done.


Joey,

I'm gonna give it to you straight. Life sucks sometimes. It does. I am a BH and lots of folks here know my story. I'm not happy with some of the things that have dropped into my lap, but that's life. And throughout my journey, sometimes I wonder which path to take. Sometimes I don't want to take a certain path, because IT'S TOO DAMN HARD. Sometimes, Joey, I want to sit and ponder. Folks here can vouch for my outstanding ability to ponder, mull, and debate.

I get through it, though. You want to know one tool that helps me get through it? My moral compass. It is my ability to boil down decisions to whether they are right or whether they are wrong. Is an action something of which I would be PROUD? Am I building CHARACTER as a result of this potential action?

Do you think it was easy for me to call OM and ask him what his intentions were with my W? Do you think it was easy dialing that phone when I KNEW Skatt would find out and come at me with EVERY WEAPON in her arsenal? Of course not. It was a bear. It was the right thing to do, though, Joey. Once I knew that fact, and once I truly accepted it, I was on my way. No looking back.

Joey, we all want to be considered decent people who have integrity, dignity, honor and character. Sure, you screwed up. I have screwed up in the past, and I will screw up in the future. Can I learn from my mistakes? Can I turn a negative into a positive? You see, THAT is how I view situations and scenarios. THAT is how I view LIFE.

You don't need to mull anymore, Joey. Just call him. You don't have to carry that burden any longer. You can turn YOUR negative into a positive. You see, by telling him, you are DOING THE RIGHT THING. And that alone, demonstrates character. The more difficult the task at hand, the more integrity you will restore. You know it's the right thing to do. So what if it's hard. Walk a day in my shoes, or countless other folks around here, Joey. Now THAT would be hard. That, my friend, is harder than you ever want to know.

Just call.

TB
Originally Posted By: joey123
I wish I could tell all of you that I will be making a call later today, but I don't think that will happen. I think in time it will though. As bad as this sounds, I need to prepare myself from not speaking to or seeing her ever again.


That's called being a jerk. Nobody cares what you need until your victim's needs are cared for, and neither should you.
Let me put it to you this way.

The victims of rape and the victims of infidelity have said the infidelity is worse.

Those who have lost a child and experienced infidelity have said the infidelity is worse.

What you are doing is emotional RAPE to this man. What you are doing is the emotional equivalent of MURDERING his child.

This is based on what people WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH IT have said. This is not hyperbole.

What would you do if someone came up to you and said:
"I'm raping this girl, and I just don't know if I can stop - I love it too much. I don't think I'm ready to stop yet, I need to think about it."

What would you say? Oh think about it a while, maybe you can convince yourself to stop tomorrow, or the next day, or the next. Maybe if you think about it for a while you'll get up the courage to do it.

Is that what you would say?

Waiting prolongs the RAPE you are committing of this man - to make yourself feel better.

NOTHING justifies that.
or...you're just a troll that made up this whole story.


Until you actually do something...don't say "trust me" again, because I/we don't.

You are supposedly a self-confessed liar and adulterer...why should we or ANYONE trust you?

Seriously...think about it.

Why should ANYONE ever trust you again?

What makes people trustworthy?

Mr. Wondering
As we say in Texas, money talks and bull**it walks. So far this is only TALK. Empty talk backed up by nothing.
Originally Posted By: MrWondering
or...you're just a troll that made up this whole story.


Hmmm. The troll angle is one that initially escaped me, but Mr. W could be onto something....

TB
Actually I don't think troll. Some of this stuff he is ruminating on sounds disgustingly familiar....kind of like me four years ago. That's one reason I wish I could just shake him and express fully how much better his life will get if he will do the right thing. Yes, it will be hard, and there will be hurt. But I'll never forget that first day I could actually look in the mirror and NOT have to push away the knowledge that I was living like a sl*t. Doing the right thing is ALWAYS worth it.
I just read this thread and I can barely type because I am so angry and frustrated. Finally, curiousity got the better of me.

Joey,

There are things in life that define a man's character. I believe this is one of them for you. You are at a fork in your road of life and you can either take the 'hard right', or continue to do the 'easy wrong'. You know what you need to do.

Quit justifying to yourself your BS excuses and own up to your behavior and do the right thing here. It ain't about YOU anymore. It's about the other lives you have caused severe damage to. If you can do this, you MAY be on your way to redeeming yourself if you stay on a better path.

If you continue to shuck and jive out of what you know needs to be done, you will forever just be another POSOM.

-SoL
Quote:
I just read this thread and I can barely type because I am so angry and frustrated. Finally, curiousity got the better of me.


Easy, big fella. I know this all hits too close for you but don't let it deter you from your plan. All waywards are alike, but their not all the same. Stay focused.

opt
Thanks Opt, and I'll try to not let my feelings taint what I say. I do believe what I posted though. If Joey wants to save his marriage, he needs to step up and that starts with O&H.

Joey, I have no resentments towards you personally. Appologize for coming accross so strong. If an open and honest marriage and life is something you desire, you are going to have to work for it.
Originally Posted By: SickofLimbo
I just read this thread and I can barely type because I am so angry and frustrated. Finally, curiousity got the better of me.

Joey,

There are things in life that define a man's character. I believe this is one of them for you. You are at a fork in your road of life and you can either take the 'hard right', or continue to do the 'easy wrong'. You know what you need to do.

Quit justifying to yourself your BS excuses and own up to your behavior and do the right thing here. It ain't about YOU anymore. It's about the other lives you have caused severe damage to. If you can do this, you MAY be on your way to redeeming yourself if you stay on a better path.

If you continue to shuck and jive out of what you know needs to be done, you will forever just be another POSOM.

-SoL


Perfectly stated, SOL.
I am not a troll, at least not in the sense that I'm making up this story. Everything I have said is true, unfortunately. Thank you all for giving your input. I honestly don't know when I'm going to make the call that I need to make. I hope I can muster up the courage to do it soon. Like I've said, I know a lot of you have been betrayed in your lives and people like me disgust you. Thank you for putting your disgust towards me aside for a moment and for helping me to start to see the light and at least take steps towards doing what i need to do. Everything you have all wrote is going to help me tremendously. Hopefully I'll be updating soon on when I make the call. It will be hard, but I know it has to be done.
Trolls are usually much more inflammatory, and also often have more and more shocking revelations as time goes on.

I think Joey is just another textbook OM. Whether he becomes someone to be proud of remains to be seen.

It can happen, and I've seen it before.
Originally Posted By: joey123
I am not a troll, at least not in the sense that I'm making up this story. Everything I have said is true, unfortunately. Thank you all for giving your input. I honestly don't know when I'm going to make the call that I need to make. I hope I can muster up the courage to do it soon. Like I've said, I know a lot of you have been betrayed in your lives and people like me disgust you. Thank you for putting your disgust towards me aside for a moment and for helping me to start to see the light and at least take steps towards doing what i need to do. Everything you have all wrote is going to help me tremendously. Hopefully I'll be updating soon on when I make the call. It will be hard, but I know it has to be done.


**edit** or get off the pot. Otherwise, start posting on "The Other Woman" forum at gloryb, because that's what you are, a giant woman. I've been civil to you thus far, but my patience has run out. You are no better than any other wayward. In fact you may be worse, knowing you are doing another man wrong, and still doing nothing about it. You don't come here to do the right thing, you come here to lessen your guilt by telling yourself you are doing something when you are in fact doing nothing.
Originally Posted By: jmwc95
**edit** or get off the pot. Otherwise, start posting on "The Other Woman" forum at gloryb, because that's what you are, a giant woman. I've been civil to you thus far, but my patience has run out. You are no better than any other wayward. In fact you may be worse, knowing you are doing another man wrong, and still doing nothing about it. You don't come here to do the right thing, you come here to lessen your guilt by telling yourself you are doing something when you are in fact doing nothing.


QFT
Joey - unfortunately courage won't come until after you take action.

It's a fact of life. Waiting for the courage to quit is like an alcoholic continuing to go to bars, wrecking their lives and the lives of everyone including the innocent victims who just happened to be driving home late form work or just happened to be married to the woman you tramped with... courage isn't found in the bottle. It's found in walking away from the bottle. No last longing glances. No last romantic farewells.

Cut it off. All contact. Now.

Burn the bridges.

The urban dictionary says:
Quote:
cut off all ties in a relationship
when you burn a bridge you can't cross it again. to burn a bridge means to be completely done with something.


Only when you've done the thing you must, will you feel courage. Only then will you feel your soul coming back.

It feels pretty icky right now. But you also hope to get another fix - hence the hopeful thoughts about what her brother tells you (gag).

Then when you get another fix, and the high is over, you feel lower than before. The cycle doesn't end. You don't find the courage to do it.

You just do it.
Courage is a by-product of doing the right thing first.

It is a character trait that is earned by the coward by leaving cowardice behind and taking the actions he fears to take.
I couldn't agree more with the "either --- or get off the pot"...what are you waiting for? It gets harder by putting it off, you can think of a million justifications to procrastinate...just do the right thing and get it over with!

Melody Lane: Still think you could have handled your response better but...moving on...the important thing is this guy do what he needs to be doing and that's the advice everyone here seems to be giving him! smirk
You know those people who put on all the gear to bungee jump and then hold onto the rail saying, "I'm not ready, count to three again!" They never end up jumping. You have to close your eyes, swallow the panicky throw up in your moth and step off the ledge.

As Nike says....Just do it!
Originally Posted By: Gack1
Do you like facts and statistics Joey?

Most men do, I do.

Have you ever researched the percentage of relationships that start out as affairs that reach marriage? Or how about that reach a 5yr Marriage anniversary? How about 10yrs?

You really should, but I'll give you a hint. The 10yr mark is so low, that your more likely to win the lottery than make the 10yr Affariage Mark.
On top of this....



Do you have any integrity?
Originally Posted By: kaycstamper


Melody Lane: Still think you could have handled your response better but...moving on...the important thing is this guy do what he needs to be doing and that's the advice everyone here seems to be giving him! smirk


That makes us even, Kay, because I don't think you handled yourself very well at all. You oughta leave the moderating to the moderators.
I say we all stop wasting our breath on this OM. Clearly he has no desire to actually end it of he WOULD.

The advice has been given, Joey. Be a man and redeem yourself or stop wasting our time.
Originally Posted By: NewPetals
I say we all stop wasting our breath on this OM. Clearly he has no desire to actually end it of he WOULD.

The advice has been given, Joey. Be a man and redeem yourself or stop wasting our time.


AMEN

Notice he's not been around today...
I'm around. Still foggy as can be. I have a question though. How do I find out his phone #? They don't have a house phone and all I know is her cell phone. I did a few look ups and the only number I get for him is there old house # which is disconnected. They share a FB account so if I try to contact him there she may see it and delete my message. Same with email, they share that too. I can't find anything that is just his account. Suggestions?
Do you know his name? Have you tried to find it on pipl.com?
Originally Posted By: joey123
I'm around. Still foggy as can be. I have a question though. How do I find out his phone #? They don't have a house phone and all I know is her cell phone. I did a few look ups and the only number I get for him is there old house # which is disconnected. They share a FB account so if I try to contact him there she may see it and delete my message. Same with email, they share that too. I can't find anything that is just his account. Suggestions?


Excuse, so what if she sees it. If you are that worried about it, call a PI and get his contact info. You can get it for less than $15.

Better yet, send a message out to all her facebook friends. It's bound to get back to him then. That's what we would recommend the BS to do, so you will just be doing him a favor by exposing for him and doing the lovebusting for him. It bet she won't want to be with you after that. Just do it.
Yes i tried pipl and still just get an old phone#. I know he has a cell phone but I know cell phones don't come up in a lot of searches. I'm pretty sure they have Verizon.
Originally Posted By: jmwc95


Excuse, so what if she sees it. If you are that worried about it, call a PI and get his contact info. You can get it for less than $15.

Better yet, send a message out to all her facebook friends. It's bound to get back to him then. That's what we would recommend the BS to do, so you will just be doing him a favor by exposing for him and doing the lovebusting for him. It bet she won't want to be with you after that. Just do it.


Hear hear!
Joey, where does he work? You must know in all those conversations with the OW? Call him at work, find his parents #, call and ask for his #.

You were "creative" in having an A, this should be easy for you.
Quote:
Better yet, send a message out to all her facebook friends. It's bound to get back to him then.


Best solution! She can't delete your post to your wall only her's. Her/His friends will still see it and you can betcha it WILL get back to him.

So, what are you waiting for? Just pull the trigger.
I would send out to all their Facebook friends, but it's not up to me to do that. Maybe he doesn't want anyone to find out about this. I know on here it says to tell everyone to bust everything up, but I can't do that for him. I will let him know, and anything that happens after that is up to him. Any other search tools out there besides pipl?
Good advice on the parents, I think I just found out their number. I'll give them a call and see if I can get a cell number out of them.
If he and his WIFE share the verizon acct like most MARRIED folk, go one number up from hers, or one number down from hers.

EG WW- 555-1234, her BS 555-1235, or 555-1233. We have had 3 carriers over the years, we always had numbers like this GF.
Joey,

You have two very difficult actions to do right away...

Tell your xBW about your A...and tell OWH.

Pick up the phone right now and tell your xBW. Tell her that you spent so much time meeting OW's ENs, thinking and fantasizing about her, that you robbed xBW the chance to have a deeply loving, fulfilling marriage.

You worked really hard on your A...to give OW just the right image, believe all the right lies you both told each other...you won't feel like doing the right thing until you experience your xBW's pain--you won't see the depth of the lies you've drowned yourself in.

You and the OW broke apart two marriages...caused this pain, not by informing...pain was already there. You know that. You know your hesitation is adding to your degradation. Because you're looking at a guy with cancer eating his insides out, you can see it and know it...he doesn't...so he isn't reaching for a cure.

And he's being eaten up while you try to muster up your courage...another lie to yourself...because you know you choose to act courageously...read the posts. You know they are right.

You are in the habit of doing wrong...for three years, you have been actively crossing healthy boundaries of respect, honesty and love...and making up justifications why it's okay...and blaming the victims of your crime.

When you really stop doing wrong and do right (make those calls asap), you will begin the really long process of breaking this horrible habit...and the first step isn't the biggest...they all become big...until they become your routine.

Don't think, act. You already know what to do...don't wait to feel like it. Feelings follow actions. Be kind to yourself and free yourself from all the lies, so you can see straight again.

Get "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley, so you can see how marriages can be saved, how you destroyed your own...and how OW's marriage may well recover, in the coming years...and that would really be the biggest blessing to you that you can't see now.

You already know that if you don't have any contact with OW, you won't feel for her...and that's the truth. Which is what you did with your xBW (if you really are divorced...not sure I know what you mean your marriage ended May, 2009)...you made yourself fall out of love, stopped working your half of the marriage and abandoned her with deception...and blamed her for the failing.

You broke your vows to your xBW three years ago when you spoke to a member of the opposite sex about the intimate details of your marriage and inserted yourself into hers by allowing OW to tell you about hers. That's where the destruction began, the first break...don't do that again. Ever.

That was you attacking two marriages...from the first disclosure you made.

So of course you won't feel like finding redemption...you'll feel like staying a bad person believing they couldn't help themselves (continuation of the lies)...it's your habit, your routine, which you worked so hard for three years to keep spinning, justifying, tweaking, excusing...horrible way to live, really. Takes more and more fantasy to compensate for the reality...until the reality breaks all the way through.

If this had been done to your best male friend...where his wife did what OW did...where she invaded his marriage, tore it up and spit it out...you would NOT like anything about that OW...and yours is her, see? No respect (she doesn't respect you, your BW, the marriage, her BH or herself), though she will say she does...due to a feeling; she does disrespect. There is no future. Never was.

And she was telling her BH she loved him, was sleeping with him, and lying to you, just like she lied to her OWH. You cannot trust her to not lie...to do otherwise is crazy. Nothing about you makes you special enough to get her to stop lying. She's been doing it for three years (probably a lot longer)...it's her habit.

You choosing to believe her is another way you lie to yourself. That she says she believes you, that you're being honest, is laughable, isn't it? Can you see that?

If you want to truly repair what you did, you make those two calls...then focus on psyching yourself up to go to your own HR dept and report your affair...that you used company time and resources to carry it on and you name OW so that both of you can stop lying. That's the hero's walk...and one of you stops working for this company by the end of next week...will help you to not contact her in anyway.

Do what the posters are advising so you can look at yourself in the mirror and not justify who you are...you can truly be a man worth knowing and loving, respecting. Redemption road awaits...longer you take to get on it, the longer it will take to see the end of it...and the more damage you'll have done along the way to amend.

LA
Originally Posted By: joey123
I would send out to all their Facebook friends, but it's not up to me to do that. Maybe he doesn't want anyone to find out about this. I know on here it says to tell everyone to bust everything up, but I can't do that for him. I will let him know, and anything that happens after that is up to him. Any other search tools out there besides pipl?


You can't do that for him, but you can bang his wife and break up his marriage. Boy, you sure have his best interests at heart.

Intellius.com

Have someone else call up his wife and ask for her husband's number.

Facebook message one of HIS friends and ask for his email. Can't you send private message in facebook anyway.

Where there is a will, there is a way. You just need to find the will.
Originally Posted By: joey123
Good advice on the parents, I think I just found out their number. I'll give them a call and see if I can get a cell number out of them.


Bingo...

Do not tell the parents why you want to contact him. Say you are an old friend or friend of his wife.

Good idea about cell phone one digit dfference. That is how it worked in your house. 3 phones all one digit difference
Originally Posted By: joey123
Good advice on the parents, I think I just found out their number. I'll give them a call and see if I can get a cell number out of them.


And just to beat you to the punch, Joey, if you suck it up and actually talk to the parents, and they do not feel comfortable giving out their son's phone number, LEAVE YOUR CONTACT INFO. And tell 'em it's important.

If some stranger called my folks looking for me, I don't think they'd give out my info. They're parents. They're naturally protective.

The internet is a wonderful thing. I gotta believe you can find this guy through some search mechanism, but if you call his folks, at least it shows some form of ACTION, and not more of the whole, "I know I need to do it, but I don't know when" type of stuff.

TB
Quote:
Facebook message one of HIS friends and ask for his email. Can't you send private message in facebook anyway.


Ask them for his email and if they don't feel comfortable giving you that ask them to get a message to him to please call you ASAP about an important personal matter concerning his wife. That'll get their attention and probably pique their curiosity enough to pass on the request.
Quote:
Thanks Opt, and I'll try to not let my feelings taint what I say. I do believe what I posted though. If Joey wants to save his marriage, he needs to step up and that starts with O&H.

Joey, I have no resentments towards you personally. Appologize for coming accross so strong. If an open and honest marriage and life is something you desire, you are going to have to work for it.


Limb, I just re-read my post and I can see how my intention could be totally flipped around. Everything you said to Joey was totally right on and appropriate. I was more concerned about you, and your plan staying intact. I shouldn't have posted something to you on Joey's thread - too confusing. Besides, I know better than to think something like this situation would throw you off, even for a moment.

opt
Joey,

contacted the BH yet?
Make the call.

A word from your local internet broken record.
[TJ]Hey, Mel! You can borrow my siggy line if you wanna! wink [/TJ]
Well, I did half of the plan. I told her I can't do this anymore, it's not fair to him, etc. I basically started the no contact phase. I sent an email to her reiterating that we're done and not to contact me, ever. However I guarantee she will break it. I can be good and not break it, but I just don't see her doing it. When she breaks the no contact should I just ignore her, or tell her to stop contacting me?

I have not told her Husband yet. To be honest, I'm still back and forth with that. Part of me thinks it's not my place to tell him. Part of me feels I have already caused enough damage and me telling him will just make things worse. Maybe they have more of a chance at recovery if he knows nothing. I want to be done with it and not be involved anymore. Just break it off and be done. What she chooses to say or not say is up to her. Is that a bad way to go about it? Is it still on me to let him know?
YES that is a bad way to go about it.

YES it's still on you to let him know!

Have you not listened to anything anyone has said to you since you first got here? I think you need to start at the beginning and read your thread from the start.
16 pages into this thread and you are asking this SAME question. Go back and read what we all wrote BEFORE. We aren't going to change our minds no matter what you say. We aren't going to one day say, "Oh, yes, I never thought of that. Don't tell." NOPE not gonna happen.

JUST TELL HIM ALREADY. You are hurting him everyday.

As far as if you are going to be able to hold out and not talk to her. NOPE. You will cave. The fact that she was married didn't stop you from having an affair with her. You went against all that you know is right.

TELL HER HUSBAND TODAY. NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

I think I made myself clear.
Originally Posted By: joey123
Well, I did half of the plan. I told her I can't do this anymore, it's not fair to him, etc. I basically started the no contact phase. I sent an email to her reiterating that we're done and not to contact me, ever. However I guarantee she will break it. I can be good and not break it, but I just don't see her doing it. When she breaks the no contact should I just ignore her, or tell her to stop contacting me?

I have not told her Husband yet. To be honest, I'm still back and forth with that. Part of me thinks it's not my place to tell him. Part of me feels I have already caused enough damage and me telling him will just make things worse. Maybe they have more of a chance at recovery if he knows nothing. I want to be done with it and not be involved anymore. Just break it off and be done. What she chooses to say or not say is up to her. Is that a bad way to go about it? Is it still on me to let him know?


Tell him. I guarantee if you tell him, you won't have to worry about her contacting you anymore. There shouldn't be a doubt in your mind as to what the right thing to do is. Listen, you are talking to a bunch of betrayed spouses, just like her husband. We would want to know. I don't know how it can get anymore obvious than that.
Tell him. Today. He has a right to know. Plus, it will probably help you stay NC. This cannot remain a secret.
Originally Posted By: joey123
Well, I did half of the plan. I told her I can't do this anymore, it's not fair to him, etc. I basically started the no contact phase. I sent an email to her reiterating that we're done and not to contact me, ever. However I guarantee she will break it. I can be good and not break it, but I just don't see her doing it. When she breaks the no contact should I just ignore her, or tell her to stop contacting me? Half the plan is NO PLAN. Of COURSE she'll break NC!

I have not told her Husband yet. To be honest, I'm still back and forth with that. Part of me thinks it's not my place to tell him. Aren't you the perpetrator? Whose place IS it? His wife, the one who is slinking around on him like a barnyard animal? You think she's going to do the right thing and screw up her security with her husband? Part of me feels I have already caused enough damage and me telling him will just make things worse. Stop being a weiner, Joey. This screams of chicken-sh*tness. Maybe they have more of a chance at recovery if he knows nothing. As far as he knows there is nothing to recover FROM. She'll just move on to her next OM. How nice of you to do this big favor for him. doh2 I want to be done with it and not be involved anymore. Just break it off and be done. Grow a set, Joey. Screwing around with a married woman is seldom that tidy. What she chooses to say or not say is up to her. Which, of course, will be NOTHING. (See my comment about security, above.) Is that a bad way to go about it? Is it still on me to let him know? Yep, still on you.


I'll give you another thing to look at, Joey. This will be hanging over your head forever. FOREVER. And that's a long, long time. You'll always have an eye over your shoulder, wondering when he's going to come looking for you. Someone in your company may get ticked at you and decide to blab as a way of getting back at you. Or she may get religion and decide that confession is a good thing. Or...pick your scenario. My point being, until her H knows the true nature of his marriage, you will NOT BE DONE with her. It's that simple.

twoxfour

Now get busy.
He won't. He's just playing.
It wasn't your place to bang another man's wife.

It IS your place to own up to what you've done and begin making it right by leaving them alone.

Make the call.
Joey,

I would like to stomp on OW's face for what she did to my marriage. And you know what? If she had come to me and told me what was going on instead of being a sneaky little b#tch my respect level would have gone up just a BIT for her for at least TRYING to stop wrecking a home. Right now I think she's complete scum.

What do you think her husband will think of you when he finds out ANOTHER WAY?

And yes, she will contact you again. And yes, you will "respond to tell her to stop" and voila, there you are back in the affair. UNLESS you tell her husband.
Originally Posted By: joey123

I have not told her Husband yet. To be honest, I'm still back and forth with that. Part of me thinks it's not my place to tell him. Part of me feels I have already caused enough damage and me telling him will just make things worse. Maybe they have more of a chance at recovery if he knows nothing. I want to be done with it and not be involved anymore. Just break it off and be done. What she chooses to say or not say is up to her. Is that a bad way to go about it? Is it still on me to let him know?


Back AND forth? This is just riddled with laziness and inconsideration. These are just excuses to rationalize NOT telling him. Is it still ON YOU? Well, gee, Joey, did you insert yourself into someone else's M? Hmmm. Um, yep. Then it IS still on you.

You won't tell him. And when she comes running to you, in a state of panic, saying she can't live without you and she's "leaving him", you'll cave. You'll crumble like a house of cards.

Am I right, Joey?

TB
Joey123,

"Maybe they have more of a chance at recovery if he knows nothing"

He does know something, he knows more that he might admit to himself, as long as the secret is kept, they have no chance at a fully recovered relationship. My wife had an affair 20 years ago and we were never right after it although I could never completely understand why that was so, until I read this website.

She will maintain her hidden hope to get back with you for years , while he lingers on as a runner up, you must kill this affair completely.

Gamma
Originally Posted By: joey123
I have not told her Husband yet. To be honest, I'm still back and forth with that. Part of me thinks it's not my place to tell him. Part of me feels I have already caused enough damage and me telling him will just make things worse. Maybe they have more of a chance at recovery if he knows nothing. I want to be done with it and not be involved anymore. Just break it off and be done



A coward's way out. Of course it is your place to tell him; you are the one who DID his wife and intruded on his marriage. They have NO CHANCE of recovery if he does not know about the affair. NONE. Nor can he protect himself from YOU. Yo can't very well redeem yourself and make amends if you don't tell him.

A coward runs from making amends to his victim. That is what you are today. A scared little man who is not man enough to face the consequences of his bad behavior.
This guy is wasting valuable board time. He does not have the nads to do this. Moving on...
Agreed.
Ditto!
Quote:
Maybe they have more of a chance at recovery if he knows nothing. I want to be done with it and not be involved anymore
MrRollieEyes puke

Yeah, right
Be a man and tell her husband. You are not even half a man right now, you are a teenager with his pants down who got caught and you are CRYING because you "feel bad" but--no! You want it to continue!

SH@& OR GET OFF THE POT!
Originally Posted By: NewPetals
Ditto!


ITA. Joey, if you're looking for an easy way out you won't find it here. I can't help you - no one here can help you. Only you can help you.

I'll refrain from responding to further posts because my frustration level has been reached and I'm getting tired of repeating myself. Unless, of course, you put your big boy pants on and take care of business. Let us know when that happens, okay?
My husband had an affair 20 years ago and my sister knew about it, but she didn't tell me.

I think you know the rest of that story.

If she HAD told me, I may not have suffered a subsequent affair because I would have KNOWN who and what I married. We would either have worked to fix it, or I would have moved on.

Make the damned call, already ...
Joooy,
Bottom line, if i discovered you invading my marriage, you would be down on the ground and blank eyes staring into space.

I do not give a gd what the women are saying here, you better pay attention to the men here. And yes, you could be dead by now.

Tom
I'm not sure about men or women or being dead, but you need to come clean. If there is bad fallout, it won't be because you confessed, it will be because you cheated in the first place.
This, from your first post, has been bothering me:

Originally Posted By: joey123
We started to build a relationship over the years. We got each others cell numbers and starting texting a lot. In my mind we were just good friends. I think she thought of me as more at that time. At the time of all of this, I was coming to the end of my marriage. The co worker and I spoke a lot about marriage and we tried to help each other out. I would talk to her about my marriage, she would talk to me about hers. We were both very unhappy and tried to give each other ideas to help save our marriages. My marriage ended May 2009. I talked to the co-worker about everything. She was there for me as she always had been. During my marriage ending she would always say how hers was going to end soon, and that she was planning on seperating soon.

According to this account, your affair was building for years before it became official. By the sound of this, OW was a factor in the break up of your marriage.

Why did your marriage break up, joey?
Originally Posted By: Tom2010
Joooy,
Bottom line, if i discovered you invading my marriage, you would be down on the ground and blank eyes staring into space.

I do not give a gd what the women are saying here, you better pay attention to the men here. And yes, you could be dead by now.

Tom


Joey, just to clarify: Tom's W had an A. Tom did not kill the OM. I don't mean to speak for you, Tom, but I think Tom is jusst verbalizing some potential emotions of the BH.

'Course, there have been cases...
Joey, this is all about your fear, which I couldn't care less about really.

In a years time you will be over the physical bruises if there are any, and your fear won't be haunting you everyday. You will have moved on.

My only concern is this BETRAYED HUSBAND and YOUR BETRAYED XW.

Believe it not Joey, their pain far outweighs your fear, they will feel pain for years.

Your fear keeps you immature, it keeps you doing the wrong thing.

You know what is funny about doing the right thing, it becomes addictive.

When you do the wrong thing after doing many rights, it's hard to have a good day until you make the wrong a right.

You should try it.

You are a chump.

Mbliss, ditto on your explaination of Tom's post.
Vittoria,

It is not about fear on his part, it is about his immorality.

To clarify, I talked to Char tonight, and she and I discussed how we feel now. She told me she loved me so much that I feel like so overwhelmed. I told her about this site and that I would like her to post here for her own sense of well being. She agreed and we will do this but it will be intermittant becasue she is only here a couple of times per week.

I told her about this one story, and she told me tonight that anyone who would really try to go after a married woman should be kicked totally. (and I will not tell you rest of wwhere or what she said). She is a very morale and very honest person. She is also gentle and vulnerable. It was relief to hear her say that to me from standpoint that I felt I was being too harsh. Of course she told me that I would be like a Clint Eastwood and ride him down. But she just told me calm down and she told me tonight on phone she loved me over again.

So, Joey, what about the wives who are not as strong as my wife is? My wife would have kicked your n*ts off if you approached her. I would have followed up.

Point being, I am age 67 and have my wife. She is still beautiful and sexy to me. Do you need to invade a marriage to find a wife? Where will you be when you are age 67

Vittoria, why are you giving this guy the time of day with your advice? I would love for you to talk with Char in terms if infidelity the harm it causes, and to learn that this guy is most likely playing your mind.

Thanks.
Originally Posted By: Tom2010
Vittoria,

It is not about fear on his part, it is about his immorality.

To clarify, I talked to Char tonight, and she and I discussed how we feel now. She told me she loved me so much that I feel like so overwhelmed. I told her about this site and that I would like her to post here for her own sense of well being. She agreed and we will do this but it will be intermittant becasue she is only here a couple of times per week.

I told her about this one story, and she told me tonight that anyone who would really try to go after a married woman should be kicked totally. (and I will not tell you rest of wwhere or what she said). She is a very morale and very honest person. She is also gentle and vulnerable. It was relief to hear her say that to me from standpoint that I felt I was being too harsh. Of course she told me that I would be like a Clint Eastwood and ride him down. But she just told me calm down and she told me tonight on phone she loved me over again.

So, Joey, what about the wives who are not as strong as my wife is? My wife would have kicked your n*ts off if you approached her. I would have followed up.

Point being, I am age 67 and have my wife. She is still beautiful and sexy to me. Do you need to invade a marriage to find a wife? Where will you be when you are age 67

Vittoria, why are you giving this guy the time of day with your advice? I would love for you to talk with Char in terms if infidelity the harm it causes, and to learn that this guy is most likely playing your mind.

Thanks.

Tom, please keep your sitch on your own thread. Really, the first sentence you posted is the only one that is pertinent to this thread. Joey might be a little aggravating in his reluctance to hear what we're saying, but it's his thread.
Quote:
As far as I know she does not post here. Something I failed to mention (which I guess gives me hope, or maybe false hope) is her Brother is very supportive of us. She is very close with her Brother and has told him a lot about us. I've never met him, but I have sent him messages on Facebook. This was about a month ago. I basically told him I care a lot about his Sister and I hope he doesn't think bad of me. His response was he supports us and knows she isn't happy and has heard a lot of great things about me.
Well, of course her brother knows she's unhappy and he has heard great things about you; after all, that so-called woman (and that's putting it nicely) you love so much "IS" a WW who has to find a way to JUSTIFY this A of yours and hers. Hmmmph, typical WW bullcrap; knock their OWN spouses down and build their cheating counter-parts up "just" to make it look like they have good reason for doing wrong. Yeah, that's a woman worthy of loving...NOT!!!

Quote:
Her parents know I exist. They don't know the extent of us, but they know she has feelings for me. I know, just makes the whole thing even that more messed up when family is supporting her. I know this will open me up to more criticizing, but I want to be as honest with all of you as I can.
No, this doesn't open you up to more criticism, Joey, but it sure as heck opens her weirdo family up to some. What a bunch of whacko's! However, good news is...when your lover-girl decides to boink someone other than her H and YOU, hey, at least she'll have her family's support as they stand in the sidelines and cheer her on.

Tell me, will you be standing there right along with them as she does so or...?

Spill the beans, joey, and save EVERYONE some heartache.
Hi Maritalbliss,

I fully understand what you are saying and I appreciate that.

Reason that I bring up my own sitch is as an example, and I feel fully confidant in doing that. I've had many people tell me long ago when I was young where do you want to be in ten or twenty years, and they have told me their situations. Those situations made an impression on me.

I'm sorry Marital, but this strikes home to me. I used this as a means of trying to get to this guy regarding the harm that he has caused and the amends that he needs to make. I tried to use this as a real expample. It's just my way and I would not do it any other way, but I feel he is just not interested.

Thanks,

Tom
Only the fifth post on this thread:

Quote:
It sounds like your girlfriend did what most players do - she lied to you so she could have two people at her beck and call to feed her emotional needs. And it worked.

Like all cheaters, she wanted the security and comfort of marriage *and* all the fun and excitement of dating at the same time. And she got it.

And you did the same thing with her. You sat on the fence and enjoyed having both a marriage and a girlfriend.

Just as a tiny afterthought - what about your Betrayed Wife? Does she know about any of this?

Yes, tell your girlfriend's Betrayed Husband. He has every right to know the truth, just as your BW does.


Has this question about your BW ever been answered? I haven't seen it. Even if you can foolishly rationalize away what you're doing to that poor BH, how can you justify not telling your own BW? BXW? Whatever the acronym would be.

Make the call. Make both calls.

How long are you content being someone's leftovers? How long are you content scraping the dregs of the Immorality Barrel?

Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone for a reason. Use it.
Joey,

Originally Posted By: Neak
Has this question about your BW ever been answered? I haven't seen it. Even if you can foolishly rationalize away what you're doing to that poor BH, how can you justify not telling your own BW? BXW? Whatever the acronym would be.


Neak, don't you know that his wife has no need to know anything? She's a mentally unstable psycho, she'll flip and hurt herself if she ever finds out. The destruction of their marriage had absolutely NOTHING to do with his girlfriend, or the blossoming of their relationship into earth shaking love. Joey's marriage was way over before he even thought of talking to his fair maiden the very first time. Sheesh... MrRollieEyes

[This post requires you turn your Sarcasm Filter to the 'On' position (consult your manual if necessary), Thank you.]
OK, it may be bad form to quote yourself, but I feel the need to here.

Joey, a while back I posted this to you:

Originally Posted By: SickofLimbo

There are things in life that define a man's character. I believe this is one of them for you. You are at a fork in your road of life and you can either take the 'hard right', or continue to do the 'easy wrong'. You know what you need to do.

If you continue to shuck and jive out of what you know needs to be done, you will forever just be another POSOM.


It saddens me to see you deciding to continue to take that easy wrong. Almost one week ago you started this thread, and titled it "I'm the other guy, feeling horrible, what to do?" on a pro-marriage website. Well many people on here have told you exactly what to do, and yet one week later you haven't done what is neccessary. You have been offered advice from some of the best, most helpful, knowledgeable folks when it comes to recovering a marriage and dealing with infidelity. Quite frankly you were drawing their precious time and energy away from others who truly needed their help only to waste their energies on you.

You have refused to follow the guidance. You feel so "horrible" for what you have done, yet you lack the moral fiber to do the right thing to allow all parties concerned to deal with this situation on equal footing. You twist and squirm to justify to yourself why you should NOT tell the truth, but the bottom line is you are covering your own a$$.

You know, at first I was angry but now I actually pity you. I really do. How can you look yourself in the mirror and be OK with what you see there? How can you go to sleep each night knowing you possess zero honor, integrity, or moral courage? How can you go through life and look ANYONE else in the eye? Apparently you have no character and also you appear to lack a conscious as well. I feel sorry for you to be this way.

Well you continue to shuck and jive so I'm sure you know how I feel about you. Good day to you sir.

SoL......Out.
rotflmao @ lildoggie

Vi - shocked faint my bad! Thanks for pointing that out - all this time I thought there was actually some relevance between the onset of his adultery and the destruction of his M. I might have continued to believe that indefinitely if you hadn't enlightened me.

*shakes head at own foolishness* LOL

grin wink

PS for any liars or truth-hiders who might be reading this, repeatedly ignoring a pointed question is the very same thing as jumping up and down and screaming, "YES IT'S TRUE! I DID THAT!!!"
Originally Posted By: Neak
It wasn't your place to bang another man's wife.


Ummmmmmm did Neak say bang?????
blush

You must be thinking of some other Neak.
Originally Posted By: lildoggie
Joey,


rotflmao

OMG, what is the darn #, even us little girls around here would make the call.




Tom, I agree Joey is behaving without morals.
I also think he is waffling and making excuses cuz he is afraid of the repercussions.
Joey,
What is the story today, have you told the OWH yet?
I found out from my husband's OW's husband that the affair was going on, it stopped that day......It would have kept on going and getting deeper if he hadn't told me....
Joey That way he will have a choice in how he decides to handle things for himself.
He has that right.....
You need to give him that right back....
I'm proud of you for doing the right thing.......you will feel good about this when you look back on your life........
good luck, I know it's tough on you as well......
Quote:
I'm proud of you for doing the right thing.......


????????????? I have yet to see where this BOY is doing the right thing. He'll stay a BOY until he MANS UP to who he is and what he's done.
I'm with PM. To top it off my woe-is-me tolerence is pert near the empty mark...

Talking about doing the right thing means exactly squat at this point.

So I'm taking a line from a recent flick and putting it in plain simple terms.

It's time to nut up or shuddup.
Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: joey123
Maybe I'll meet somebody else someday, but it doesn't feel like I will, and at this point that isn't my top priority. However if I do, she will know about this. I have to be honest about everything in future relationships. I wont hide anything.


Awesome, Joey! Way to be a real man!!


I retract.
Melody Lane,
I apologize to you, I'd thought you were too hard on this guy, but maybe not hard enough! Anyway, I'll zip my lip...I can't believe we're into page 20 and he still hasn't made the calls...
I often think, and sometimes say, that God needs both Elijahs and Isaiahs. (Guess which one Mel is. wink )
Originally Posted By: Neak
I often think, and sometimes say, that God needs both Elijahs and Isaiahs. (Guess which one Mel is. wink )


Which one had the chain saw? laugh

tl
I think he's gone...... couldn't take being told to do the right thing.... crybaby
I feel very sorry for his family, as well as the BH's family.



(PS I'm pretty sure Elijah was the one who needed safety goggles.)
Originally Posted By: NewPetals
I think he's gone...... couldn't take being told to do the right thing.... crybaby


At least he KNOWS what the right thing is. Let's hope he acts on it.
Someday our words will sink in with poor Joey. Hopefully before more lives get wrecked.
Originally Posted By: Neak
I often think, and sometimes say, that God needs both Elijahs and Isaiahs. (Guess which one Mel is. wink )



Elijah was a Texas boy, Neak. laugh
rotflmao I believe it!
Elvis has left the building??
We can all chip in some spare change to use the pay phone.
Elvis has gone into denial that there ever was a building to leave!!MrRollieEyes

tl
He's like Keyser Soze, "And just like that, poof, he's gone."
You are all so suspicious! How do you KNOW he hasn't called???
grin
Originally Posted By: jmwc95
He's like Keyser Soze, "And just like that, poof, he's gone."


lol I had to laugh at this one! laugh

Guys go easy on the kid, he's "suffering," remember? rotflmao
I know a real good way to bring about the beginning of the end for his suffering. Hint: it involves the numbers 0-9, and some fingers doing some walking.

Maybe even reaching out and touching someone.




Oh wait, he already did that.
I'm joey's older sister. I outed him, after giving due diligence in allowing him to do it himself.

In joey123's words, I am now "dead" to him.
It needed to be done and he knew it and even agreed. Thank you for doing the right thing. Who all did you expose him to? I'm sorry he is not talking to you. He'll get over it.
Well at least someone did it. Good on you rltraveled. What did her husband say?
Originally Posted By: rltraveled
I'm joey's older sister. I outed him, after giving due diligence in allowing him to do it himself.

In joey123's words, I am now "dead" to him.


Awesome job. By the way, how much older are you? He's 28, and you've been married 28 years?

I'm sure you are "dead to him" just about as long as it take him to get through withdrawal. Were you the one that sent him here?
Originally Posted By: rltraveled
I'm joey's older sister. I outed him, after giving due diligence in allowing him to do it himself.

In joey123's words, I am now "dead" to him.


Bravo to you!! hurray
Way to go!
p.s. y'all are mean and just "ran off" the poor fella! dramaqueen
hug No good deed goes unpunished. wink
A very rough few days around here.

Like you guys, I tried to get him to do it himself. He did do this ridiculous, poorly executed act, coming into my office and pretending that he had called. I told him I would verify. Of course, they had all their bases covered. OW pretended to be her husband on FB. It was very obvious. But I also let the BS's mother and brother know. In the end, I don't think they believe me because OW headed them off, told them I was a nut or something.

See, I tried to show restraint, let joey do it himself. It sorta backfired, though.


But, where there is smoke, there is fire. Hopefully, this family will figure it out sooner or later.
A round of applause for rltraveled! clap hurray clap

You did the right thing, no doubt about it.
Jim, I am 19 years older than him.

I actually sent him here last year because his own wife was having an affair on him. He was devestated. I held his hand through it. He did counseling with SH.

And what does he do? Inside 2 months he's having his own affair.
Hurray for bravery and good deeds!
Originally Posted By: joey123
The whole time she has said she was ending her marriage, however nothing has been accomplished. She hasn't filed, hasn't done a thing. I honestly thought her marriage was going to end and we would try to build a real relationship together.


Joey (if you'll ever be back),

I bet your WW was saying the same thing to her affair partner. How did it feel? Wouldn't you have liked the OM in your situation to have a big sister that would have interfered in their affair for you.
rlt, I applaud you. You took the high road and gave the BH a chance to pull the knife out of his back before he bled to death not knowing why.

Now Joey on the other hand, well we've found out alot about his character and lack of it.

Quote:
In joey123's words, I am now "dead" to him.


That's so very typical logic for a WS. He was the one doing the crime yet he wants you to pay for it by becoming "dead" to him. Nice. I've heard easier sentences for murderers. Unbelievable. When is he going to put the blame where it belongs? The messenger ISN'T to blame!!!!!

rlt, I know the idea of him being "out of your life" is unsettling and probably painful at this point, but you KNOW you did the right thing by shining the light on this despicable situation. Someday, MAYBE, joey will man up and put the blame for this WHOLE situation and the way it was cowardly handled squarely on HIS shoulders where it belongs. Until then I'm not sure I'd want a relative with that little moral compass around my family and kids anyway.

rlt....ya done good
It's hard to fathom a BH doing this to another man after KNOWING the pain involved. That takes a SPECIAL kind of guy. Geeez
{now leaving before I say something I get censored for}
Quote:
I'm joey's older sister. I outed him, after giving due diligence in allowing him to do it himself.

In joey123's words, I am now "dead" to him.


Way to go RLT!!

How are YOU doing? Enjoying our screwed up spring weather.

I had lunch with DGS at the Morrison Inn a few weeks ago and thought of you.
Hi Chrisner,

Things going well here. How are you?

I am DONE with this snow.
rlt,

Did you ever get a hold of OWH?
This is what happened. I sent messages to the OWH, the OWH's mother and brother. But being that I gave the waywards a heads up by telling joey to make the call himself, or I would, that already had all their ducks in a row. So I received responses from the OWH's page, but they were short and felt like a fishing expedition. I knew right away it wasn't OWH, that OW was waiting for the message and circumventing it, pretending to be OWH.

Also, by waiting, this gave OW time to cook up a story about how I'm some "nutjob with 5 cats." The brother then chimed in asking for a print screen of the correspondence between me and OWH. I wasn't sure, at first, why he wanted a print screen, but then I realized that it would show him that I wasn't making it up. I did sent him the print screen a little while later, but he basically thought I cooked it up.
OK, so the mom also chimed in. Asked if I would talk to her by phone. I agreed. We did. She was somewhat leery of me. (I don't blame her, I guess). I told her what I knew. Then later, that's when the brother started messanging me. They all think I'm a crazy cat lady! The mother sent a message a couple hours after the phone call and told me to "Please leave my family alone!" OK, I said, go live in lala land.

Bottom line, I don't know what OWH knows, if the whole family is protecting him, if OW told him a sack of lies, or what. And as far as joey is concerned, well, he found out and went ballistic, sent me a scathing email packed with lies about me and whing, "Now I can can never see OW again!"
Quote:
"Now I can can never see OW again!"


Mission Accomplished!!
Originally Posted By: princessmeggy
Mission Accomplished!!

There was a flaw in joey's strategery.
Originally Posted By: rltraveled
OK, so the mom also chimed in. Asked if I would talk to her by phone. I agreed. We did. She was somewhat leery of me. (I don't blame her, I guess). I told her what I knew. Then later, that's when the brother started messanging me. They all think I'm a crazy cat lady! The mother sent a message a couple hours after the phone call and told me to "Please leave my family alone!" OK, I said, go live in lala land.

Bottom line, I don't know what OWH knows, if the whole family is protecting him, if OW told him a sack of lies, or what. And as far as joey is concerned, well, he found out and went ballistic, sent me a scathing email packed with lies about me and whing, "Now I can can never see OW again!"



That dog. He comes on here, all repentent-like, and we all tell him what he needs to do. He knows you did the right thing!
Originally Posted By: Gerkaguards
There was a flaw in joey's strategery.


rotflmao
Originally Posted By: rltraveled
Also, by waiting, this gave OW time to cook up a story about how I'm some "nutjob with 5 cats.


dis is partly TRUE! grin
RLTraveled,
You not only have good character but you're smart too! (And hey, what's wrong with cats?!)
You did what he was to yellow bellied to do.
Now Mel, be nice to the felines.
I remember my wife's line to me after I exposed to the other man's wife.

"Now he'll probably never talk to me again! I love you, but when you do things like this I hate you! I hate you! I hate you!"

Yep. Mission accomplished. Felt like crap, and still feel like crap when I remember those words. But... well, the OM is out of our lives, and despite the very hard days recovering, that drama is over.
Originally Posted By: rltraveled
Now Mel, be nice to the felines.


sigh
Good job, rlt...you rock. wink
RLT
rlt, your are an example of what a good sister with real love for her brother does. Oh, that I had had a "meddling sister" four years ago!
Rit, you are awesome. I hope that Joey sees that someday.

Originally Posted By: lurioosi2
rlt, your are an example of what a good sister with real love for her brother does. Oh, wish that I had had a "meddling sister" four years ago!

flirt Is that what you meant 'Teach' !
RLT, you absolutely did the right thing. Joey doesn't realize it now, but you have proven how very much you love him...so much that you don't want him to do the wrong thing anymore and that you are willing to do whatever is necessary to steer him back onto the right path.

A couple of years ago, I exposed my DD to the MM's wife. I don't think the affair really got off the ground, but I sure nipped it in the bud. I told the MM that if he didn't cut off all contact with my DD, I would be on the phone to his wife every single day!

DD was furious, but she got over it.
Originally Posted By: rltraveled
I'm joey's older sister. I outed him, after giving due diligence in allowing him to do it himself.

In joey123's words, I am now "dead" to him.


And I ADORE you even more now RLT!
rlt, thank you for sharing this awesome story with us! I hope your brother sobers up some day.

Based on your experience, I think I've concluded that if I ever know about an adultery, I'll just expose it immediately without warning. It could help the wayward to do the right thing, but waiting seems too risky. I appreciate you giving us the chance to hear and learn from your experience.
marcos,

yeah, live and learn, I guess. I appreciate everyone's kudos, but deep down, I feel like I blew it. I should not have given warnings about exposing. I should have just done it.
You should have, yes, and that in no way negates the wonderful and brave thing you did.

Live, learn, and share. I'll bet more than one person has read this who will remember and apply the "no warning even if it's just your family member and not your spouse" recommendation.
RLT, what do you think about starting your thread and titling it "Why you should NEVER warn before exposing!", then linking this thread?

This is incredibly valuable informtation for anyone getting ready to expose, IMO.
Originally Posted By: rltraveled
marcos,

yeah, live and learn, I guess. I appreciate everyone's kudos, but deep down, I feel like I blew it. I should not have given warnings about exposing. I should have just done it.



But you didn't know that at the time!!

Steve Harley just told me personally less than 48 hours not to second guess myself for what I "should have" done in the past. smile [I was remarking that I wished I'd brought us to Marriage Builders five years ago.]

You did great. You struck a powerful blow to end the affair and HELP your brother, his OW, and the betrayed husband. We can analyze exactly how you did it and learn from that, but that doesn't change the fact that you did something powerful, courageous, and loving.
Quote:
You did great. You struck a powerful blow to end the affair and HELP your brother, his OW, and the betrayed husband. We can analyze exactly how you did it and learn from that, but that doesn't change the fact that you did something powerful, courageous, and loving.


ITA. Your brother is incredibly immature, cruel and VERY wayward in his thinking. He will have to answer for himself on Judgement Day and I, for one, am very glad I will not be in HIS shoes.

You did the right thing, RLT. YOU took the high road; your brother took the cowardly road.
I hereby re-christen this thread the RLT Admiration and Applause Society, or RAAS.
Originally Posted By: Neak
I hereby re-christen this thread the RLT Admiration and Applause Society, or RAAS.



clap hurray clap <-- the applause wink

Way to go, RLT! Regardless of the outcome, you did awesome!! He was too cowardly to do it himself, and I'm proud of you for taking action!
And of course the OM is nowhere to be found.

I'd bet money we'll never see him again.
Originally Posted By: karmasrose
And of course the OM is nowhere to be found.

I'd bet money we'll never see him again.


I don't know about that; he'll probably have another relationship again some day, and he will remember that we are here.

The question is, will he tell us about his past at the time or not?
Or he's actually here reading along...
Nah. His nasty big sister who damaged his adulterous relationship is dead to him, remember? :P I bet he's staying far away from here.... hoping to "someday have the courage" to end his affair.... hahaha!
Originally Posted By: markos
if I ever know about an adultery, I'll just expose it immediately without warning. It could help the wayward to do the right thing, but waiting seems too risky.


Ditto.
I was avoiding this thread out of disgust but seeing all the posts and activity, I couldn't help but take a look. I am glad I did!!

Rlt, you are AWESOME! I can plainly see who got all the honor, integrity, and courage genes between you and your bro. Guess there wasn't enough left for him.

Your 'dead' to him now too. Wow. Well, you know how I feel about him. Waywards, go figure.
I found out that that blistering email he sent to me was actually a blast email to several people. It was just horrible, the things he said about me.

Famly members that I've spoken to agree he was wrong, but that I was wrong, too, for outing him. One member actually said of the email that he "had a point." UGHH!!! And, of the waywards ending up together, she said, "Well, stranger things have happened." Like, it would be just fine and dandy with her.

They see me as some pious, sanctimonous and meddlesome person. But, whatever.

They will never get it!
What? WHAT??? They said he had a point??? puke

Wow. Some people amaze me. I can promise if my sibling had an affair I would not think they had a point. And I would be on them constantly to end it. It's wrong, wrong, wrong.
Well, by sending it to several people, he confirmed the A. No denying it now.

And I have believed for a long time, its not just the active infidels that have wayward mindsets.

You still rock!
Hi rlt,

Well, you may have noticed in your brother's thread that I am the person who profanely denegrated him.

I haven't looked here during the last week but I saw this thread continued and wanted to see what the hell could he be saying now, and that some of the people here are accepting.

I saw your action, and all I can say is that you are a hero (heroine). You stood up for what is morally right and you got slapped in your face. You knew what the risk was before you took your action, and did the right thing regardless. THAT is a hero! You may have saved a family.

Someday your little brother will grow up and he will recognize what you did for what it is, and hopefully he will apologize and reconcile with you.

I am a BH, but thankfully it didn;t last long (so good so far), but I just wish you could post to some of the husbands here who do not seem to have the courage to conduct themselves the same as you did.

Simply, you are to be admired.

Thanks,

Tom
He does too have a point, and I found the picture to prove it.
Thanks, Tom. And everyone.

I haven't been on MB for a very long time because I was simply just beat up with my own situation with this crap. It's been four years since I learned about my husband's affair, and then learned about previous ones. It was heartwrenching. But my husband is repentent and works everyday to make it all right. We, and many others here, are living proof that you can get through this.

I've learned so much. I am ever so grateful to MB and the wonderful people on this board.
That's great, Neak!


Ha Ha !
My DD used to call them "the head cones". grin

What happened? skeptical
I go away for some R&R

???????
....
I am thinking maybe this thread got my "rant" thread shut down???

Oh well ....
>shrug<

I'm happy. That's what really matters.
So .... my "rant 'o' day" is here, on this beaut MrRollieEyes of a thread ...

I do not have thick legs, but I do have large drawers ! blush
rlt and joey,


As I sit here reading the thread, I think about my own brother who had an affair and betrayed his wife; I consider my husband who betrayed me; I think of my BIL who married his affair partner; my sister who slept with her daughter's husband; my niece who gave birth to OM's child and left her husband for the OM and is now in an affairage; my sister who left her husband for OM - and the OM did not divorce his wife for 18 years....and then never married my sis....but cheated on my sis....ultimately they broke up after this VLTA.......the list goes on.

Then I see Joey here, who knows that rlt is a BW. He sees nothing wrong with what he is doing? Of course he does.

He came here ASKING how to stop the affair.

From my perspective, Joey knew exactly what needed to happen. He knew MB principles, knowing what rlt had gone through, and reading the website.

Could he not see the path? He himself asked how to expose this affair!

rlt helped joey, from where I stand. She only did WHAT JOEY HIMSELF TOLD US HE WANTED TO DO HIMSELF. The difference - joey just lacked the testicular fortitude to do it himself.


joey, as a typical affairee, still wanted what he wanted, when he wanted it.

He just wanted to do his thing - with impunity. He didn't want anyone to judge HIM.

Sorry joey. People DO judge you.

Joey, you were doing the WRONG THING. You know it, I know it, your OW knows it, her husband knows it,

and rlt knows it.

rlt just had the courage to call you on the carpet for your behavior.

You should thank her for grabbing you by the collar and shaking you into consciousness. Instead, you are acting like a spoiled little child who had his toy taken away.

Grow up and meet your moral standards, Joey. What was good for other people in your past - is good for YOU, too.


Schoolbus
Quote:
I found out that that blistering email he sent to me was actually a blast email to several people. It was just horrible, the things he said about me.
Somehow, that doesn't surprise me; folks who knowingly do wrong just seem to have a knack for putting others down. Even worse, they do it all for the sole sake of picking their own-selves up. Argh, how totally pathetic!

Quote:
Famly members that I've spoken to agree he was wrong, but that I was wrong, too, for outing him. One member actually said of the email that he "had a point." UGHH!!! And, of the waywards ending up together, she said, "Well, stranger things have happened." Like, it would be just fine and dandy with her.
Yep, stranger things have happened alright but, then again, most strange things don't tear families apart and leave victims in their wake like W's and their cruel actions do.

No way were you wrong (in any way, shape or form) for spilling the beans. Heck, you should be given a medal!

Quote:
They see me as some pious, sanctimonous and meddlesome person. But, whatever.
Would you prefer your medal in bronze, silver or gold??? ;-)

Quote:
They will never get it!
Probably not, but I'd bet my bottom dollar that if they were in the same boat as most BS's they would be wishing they had brave, courageous, honest "YOU" in their corner to fight for them. Honestly, it's those people like you who make this world a better place.

You did good!

Er, Neak.....

HA HA HA HA HA, that's fricken' hilarious!
bwah ha ha, Pep!

I think that it is hard to remember - since we all are so enlightened smile - that most of the world just doesn't "get it" with regard to infidelity. I am a member of a "Christian" site, and a guy came onto the marriage section asking about confessing his affair. There were people telling him that confessing would be selfish, that his W didn't need to know in order to continue loving him, etc. I have also seen people chastened for outing a loved one. I am usually vocally incredulous about all this and get rebuked. Oh well.

So I'm basically saying you all are superior!!
Here's to hoping that someday...

Joey and his then legitimate wife (and children) raise a toast to you for making it all possible.

As for now...Joey should shut his mouth instead of adding to his future regrets.

Mr. W
Originally Posted By: rltraveled

They see me as some pious, sanctimonous and meddlesome person. But, whatever.

They will never get it!


When there is name calling I rather be called pious than a pig; sanctimonous than sleazy, meddlesome and caring than self entitled and wayward.

If more people "interfered" in a loving way the world would be a better place.

You chose love for your brother and one day he will realize how much you love him.
There is NOTHING WRONG with large drawers!
Originally Posted By: rltraveled

Famly members that I've spoken to agree he was wrong, but that I was wrong, too, for outing him. One member actually said of the email that he "had a point." UGHH!!! And, of the waywards ending up together, she said, "Well, stranger things have happened." Like, it would be just fine and dandy with her.

They see me as some pious, sanctimonous and meddlesome person. But, whatever.

They will never get it!


I've sadly come to find that very few people every really get it unless they have been directly involved (or in very close contact) in a marriage tainted by infidelity.

Good job on the exposure. Hopefully your brother will get himself out of the fog and realize what you did for him. Not to him, but for him.
**edit***
RLT,

smile Ya done good! Don't let any family criticism cause you to second guess yourself... Your motive was pure.
Here's what I have to say about the personal attacks:

Edit, edit, edit, edit, edit, and ESPECIALLY edit!

tl

P.S. Just thought I'd save the mods the trouble...MrRollieEyesflirtMrRollieEyes They can thank me later.
Originally Posted By: thndrnltng
Here's what I have to say about the personal attacks:

Edit, edit, edit, edit, edit, and ESPECIALLY edit!

tl

P.S. Just thought I'd save the mods the trouble...MrRollieEyesflirtMrRollieEyes They can thank me later.




rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao rotflmao
Originally Posted By: schoolbus
rlt helped joey, from where I stand. She only did WHAT JOEY HIMSELF TOLD US HE WANTED TO DO HIMSELF.


Yes, he said it needed to be done and said he wished he could do it. So what is he upset about?

You did the right thing, rlt.
RLT - how are things now with OW and Joey and OWH?

Have you heard any more?
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