I found out my husband was having an affair in late March; literally hours after he had supposedly ended it. Thus far, I have been unable to find any contact between them since that day, (including email, texting, phone, ect.) The following week we were in counseling together.

As I stated before, I have been unable to find any contact between them, and he repeatedly tells me it is over. His computers were removed the night of discovery, so only my laptop is available in our house. His phone is now under my name so I have complete access to phone records and texting has been turned OFF (I hated it before, Now I think it should be illegal.) This should have sparked an argument, instead all he asked is that I put his laptop in a plastic bag to prevent dust from damaging it.

He has given me access to his emails and voice mail. He has deleted his Myspace and facebook pages; we have a joint FB page now. He has agreed to purchase accountability software for his computers before they come back. And once they come back into the house, he has agreed to erase everything on them and re-install needed programs only.

I have even suggested that he should stop being friends with some people because I felt he had the tendency to share intimate conversations with them, and I felt that tendency is what contributed to his affair. He agreed to that with out a negative comment. The reason this bothers me is that I asked him early in our relationship to stop bringing a guy friend around (That guy was a jerk) and he went off that I had no say so in who he was friends with.

He is agreeing to all the steps I have suggested. It seems too easy, no fighting about it at all. What am I missing? I want to believe that he truly wants to reconcile, but I still do not trust what he tells me.

Can anyone give me any insight here?

Well it does sound like this is just to easy.....maybe he is scared of losing you and your marriage that he has awaken from his affair thinking.....
Just keep your eyes open and keep checking up on him and be thankful it is so easy to get him back on board.....
It isn't easy for some of us....and remember you probably won't believe him for a long while and that is okay, total trust probably enabled him to go about his affair any way......having him think he now needs to be accountable is a good thing.....

Does this sound like someone who is really wanting to reconcile? or does it sound like someone who is hiding to keep me off scent?

I am so confused.

He sounds sincere, but that means little at this point. His actions over time will determine his sincerity.

You need to do whatever it takes to regain some semblance of security with him. That means snooping to confirm NC. A keylogger is a good tool in this case. It will record all of his actions on the computer so you can confirm that he doesn't have any secret email addresses or a secret FB page, etc. Google 'eblaster'. I wouldn't let him put anything on his computer by himself. You need to do that.

It probably wouldn't hurt to hide a VAR in his car to record anything said while he 'thinks' he's in it alone.

Check his belongings to make sure he doesn't have a second cell phone. Golf bags and gym bags are typical hiding places for those, as well as the trunk or glove compartment of his car.

If he is truly repentent and there is NC, these things will show you nothing. It's worth it for you, though, to be very clear on that.

Are you working the MB plan to recover your M?

Well if he is giving up his computer, cell phone, email passwords, and deleted his FB and MS then I think you are very very lucky, but I agree with MB, keep your guard up, and find out for sure that he has ended all contact with the OW.

I went through the same thing with my FWH. He agreed with everything. I will say this. From my own experience, my FWH was essentially sincere in wanting to reconcile and work on our M. However, I realized later on that he wasn't really on board with alot of the "repair" work that we were doing. And that he only agreed with everything because he was afraid of losing me. I agree with marital that you need to be vigilent in snooping to be sure that he is truly sincere. I would also advise that when you launch your plan of recovery that you do your best not to be the one calling all the shots. You need to be sure that he has an equal say in how to go about recovery. If he doesn't volunteer information, question, but don't make suggestions. MY FWH agreed with everything I said simply to make all the bad feelings "go away" and even though he was sincere in recovery, it came out later on how unhappy he still was with our M and the way we do things.

Hope this helps.

No golf bags, no gym bags, but I have not thought of checking the car thoroughly.

I am currently reading Surviving an Affair. He is currently ready His Needs Her Needs. I am trying to implement as much MB as I can, although I have just arrived here. Most of the recommendations I had already done on pure instinct, including exposing the EA, told his mother right in front of him.

He is currently eluding that he is going to tell his boss about the affair just so he understands the excessive contact he and I have been having (OW was an old high school friend, so no worries about her being a co-worker). Although he has already informed him that we are having marriage problems and trying to work through them. Boss a big family man.

We have began talking about creating a marriage contract, to include things we can both agree on. I have begun my list and asked him to consider writing his list. Currently only one item has been settled: Computers are not allowed back without accountability software on them. Period! End of Discussion!

I am currently talking to him to find out what he actually got out of the affair. What needs did she fill that I was not at the time. Then I am taking that information and looking at why I was not filling that need during that time.

A lot of what I have seen has to do with communication issues from the beginning of our marriage, and the added strain on the marriage from having a new postpartum mommy and a new baby. I try to sit down and talk with him each day, although our almost two-year old does find issue with this. But we are continuing to try.

Sounds like you guys are actually working together And that my friend is very big, usually the WS is angry and upset. So for him acting this way is great! Action speaks louder than words, during this recovery I highly suggest you keep snooping, just so it can be a peace to you that he is keeping his word. I asked my husband last night if he still checks my phone and he said "yes" I gave him a BIG hug and a kiss, letting him know that I am grateful that he is still on the guard I do not want him to stop, EVER!

Im a newbie.

I can tell you though that all the words my WW spouts at me are essentially meaningless. I want to believe her but I know I cant. The KL and GPS I have DO give me something.

Peace of mind.

I dont have to sweat what she is doing while im at work. They keep down my anxiety and lets me have some semblance of a normal supply.

Keep up th

Sounds like you are doing great. Let him know how this affair has hurt you, and that you may take a little time to heal from it. Everything you are doing sounds great. I would suggest putting in that contract, if you havent already, is to spend 20+ hours a week of UA until you fall in love, then 15+ hours a week to stay in love. Fill out those questionairs at the end of HNHN, and read Love Busters and fill out the questionaire.

His actions may be sincere, like my FWW SapphireReturns, she left after exposure on her own accord. 6 hours after her plane touched down in denver she really began to miss me and had a sincere change of heart. It took me about 2 weeks to let her come home, because I knew that I can't work on my marriage without her, and I missed her. She has not tried anything fishy since that happened 3 months ago, but I still snoop on her and she knows it. I want to trust her, but theres a little pice of me that says be vigilant in identifying anything that might be out of place.

Its wonderful if he really is doing these things, and I love that you are using this good moment to try to fix your marriage. Of course there will be a lot of wierd set backs at the beginning, but it gets easier over time.

It does sound easy, but if he is sincere you will be able to determine that over time.
Unfortunately in this day there are ways around the NC he has promised you.
Here are some of the things my WH did:
Wrote and sent letter of NC - NC lasted 3 days
The cell phone in which I had access to the account would be set out for me to see; however he had prepaid cell phones that he gave to POSOW and also went and got an additional cell phone in his own account that he hid from me for a long time.
He deleted his FB account, but simply re-activated it later.
He had various personal email addresses that I was unaware of.
Be wary of how he accounts for his time.

Snoop, snoop, snoop - and always verify. I did a keylogger on the computer, that was the best way for me to verify what was going on.

I hate to sound so cynical, but that was my experience.

Hopefully your H got scared and wants to recover marriage, I recommend counseling with the Harley's. They can help you determine the best course of action and help determine if your H is sincere.

I guess one of the best ways to tell that he is being honest is the way he is acting.

Does he act short or angry with you still?
Does he have unaccounted time?
Does he leave the room often, and disappear for a few minutes at a time?
Does he contact her at work using a new FB, or email account? His boss may be able to help on this.
Does he talk admirably about the OW? (like she is such a good person she wouldnt do that....blech)

There are signs and red flags that will still announce that he is still in an affiar even if he did do all those things. Still use this time when he is willing to work on the marriage to work on the marriage. Show him you do care about him.

^aww...that's my hubby!

Short or Angry: Not really. He seems to vary between depressed and happy.

Unaccounted time: Not that I can tell. I worried about his time on the throne, but he has gotten to the point he leaves all electronics outside the room and only takes in a book. Since I use to work down the road from his current job, I know how long it should take to get there and home. He seems to be getting there in a reasonable amount of time. On the way home he is turning a gps tracker on his phone on.

Lunch: sometimes he eats with me. However when he does not I tend to call and check up on him. I questioned him once telling him that I had only his word as to who he was at lunch with, so he gave the phone to his lunch companion: his male co-worker.

Contact at work: no real way to verify. He works at a big corporate and they frown on that type of info due to patent information. That is one reason I will feel better if he does tell his boss.

Talking admirably about the OW: He did in the first few weeks. But now.......

We had a conversation a few weeks ago where I asked him how he could still see her as a good person. And he told me that he was angry at her, but she had not done anything to deliberately harm him. So I asked him how was it not deliberate to come in between a husband and his family when she knew the entire time we were there.
How having been divorced herself, she would create circumstances to lead her "friend" into that same painful situation. How was it not deliberate that for her own selfishness she would cost him free access to his son?

The he told me she kept telling him "That little boy will love you no matter what happens." (This is where I think the OW shot herself in the foot) My WS was abandoned by his bio dad when he was a little boy. Today he HATES his bio dad because of it. I think that statement rang so false in his heart, that he just could not get away from it.

So I asked him how his thinking of leaving us (me and his son) was any different than what his bio-dad did to him. I could see the bulb come on. Since then his statements about her have been that she is not the same person he was friends with in HS, and he is furious with her for almost turning him into his bio-dad.

So I don't know if that answers your questions or not, but that is what I can tell you.

His A ended naturally. HE ended it. You didn't drag him away at the height of the addiction. So he probably defogged quicker than most. My FWH was similar. He was looking for a way out. Anyway, your WH appears to be trying to do his part. Watch his actions and verify when you can.

Thanks guys.

I think I may do a full search of his car tonight, just to make sure I have not missed anything there.

And thank you for your encouragement and support. I am in uncharted territory for myself and completely lost as to what the sign post I see are saying. Thank you for trying to help me decipher them.

I checked his car, every cubby hole I could find. I found nothing. That is good news right?

More advise welcome.

How will I know when we are in recovery? When did you consider your marriage in recovery?

Hi ElunaInNC,

When my husband disparaged OW on his own without my asking him (said she was boring and ugly and was probably already cheating with another guy), I began to feel like we might have a chance at recovery.

I felt like we had started recovery when I called the MB radio show 7 months after D-day 1 (2.5 months after D-Day 4) and my F?WH told Dr. and Mrs. Harley that he would do anything to help me heal, including delayed exposure to OW's husband across the country.

It sounds like your WH may have avoided a prolonged withdrawal period but I would be concerned about 2 things: depression and underground.

His occasional depression could be a sign of lingering withdrawal.

He may have gone further underground by using his work privacy to cover for another email account or hidden trac fone.

After being busted twice in one week, my then WH appeared to be the perfect husband while we were going through MC, reading "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass and acting like he was remorseful and repentive, agreeing to everything and repeatedly telling me it was over......

...but he had started a free draft/delete email account on his work computer to tell OW when it was a good time to call him at work. (He never called her because it was long distance from his work landline.)

If it's true that your WH ended it on is own before you found out he may not be in withdrawal. How did you find out? Is it possible that he only "said he ended it" because you discovered it?

Sorry to be such a downer, but I'm hoping my horror and misery can be of some help so that others might not have to endure what we went through.

Blessings to you,
Ace

Hi Ace,

I found out about the affair via his email account. As far as ending it,these were the last post she made on her facebook account prior to my finding out about the affair:

"OW: Now I know why I've felt lost...it's over. Thu at 3:14pm � Comment �LikeUnlike

OW: I feel lost and have no clue why. *sigh*March 24 at 10:21pm � Comment �LikeUnlike"


The status marked Thu was posted 2.5 hours before discovery.

This is the reason I believe he ended it. Is it completely over? I do not know. I only know I can find no contact. I did a complete search of his car and several other hiding spots of his this weekend. Thus far I have found nothing.

He also sat down this weekend and began to draft a NC letter to her.

I also installed a KL on my laptop (the only working computer in the house atm) and have seen no activity.

I want to have hope and faith, but each day I feel more anger and bitterness even though I can find no reason not to try saving my marriage. This hurts so much, and I have no idea how to handle it. Is this anger and pain ever going to stop building? Does it ever really get better?

Yes and No.

Yes, with lots of work and intense commitment, your anger and pain may stop building and it might get better.

You need to have a plan or else no, it will not stop building and will most likely get worse.

Is OW married and if so, did you expose to OWH? (Sorry if you've mentioned this but I've missed it.) I came here trying to rebuild trust but discovered (after calling the radio show) that we needed to expose to OWH for several reasons.

The best way for you to get a plan would be to call for MB MC via phone counseling. If $195 per session is beyond your realm, they have renewed the live radio call in show and that would be something you (and your H) could do together. That's what helped us and it only cost an hour of time and a little lost sleep due to anxiety the night before.

I'm late for work but I'm sure others will help you find both resources if you need help.

Sorry I can't post during daytime hours but I'll check in tonight. In the meantime, feel free to read my story linked to my sig line.

Best wishes to you as you attempt to recover,
Ace

It wasn't a sudden "eureka" moment as much as many actions over time. My FWH showed consistent remorse and was willing to do anything I asked to help me.

Has your WH given you the NC letter yet? I am a little concerned that you said he was 'sitting down this weekend to draft' it. Writing the NC letter shouldn't take much more than 5 minutes.

Since we only have one computer currently, his draft is here with me at the moment. It looks to be alot of copy and paste.


"(OP), I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk with you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that (BS) did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay (BS) for the pain I have caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she's been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.
Sincerely,
(WS)

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly my spouse, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best husband/wife that he/she deserves.

Because of the terrible offense to my spouse and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.

My spouse has all the details of our relationship and he/she will also be told of any attempts at contact.

Sincerely,

[name here] "


This is his draft.

Why hasn't it been sent?

We got in a fight while he was typing it up. That fight lasted most of the evening and culminated with me having a rum induced hangover this morning.

That's why you need a solid plan and vision for your recovery, Eluna. It's hard work to squelch a fight with your H but it's almost harder to fight alone when one spouse refuses to engage in (or prolong) the conflict.

Getting and keeping the big picture vision of your marriage recovery will help suppress angry outbursts that often sabotage early recoveries. I hope that makes some sense.

Ace

Ok he exposed to his boss this morning.

As far as the NC letter: he has agreed to write by hand so that she has no question that it is coming from him. We did not get around to it last night, simply because he spent most of the evening looking after our son because the hangover I thought I had turned out to be a fever

We have a counseling session this afternoon.

Good idea to hand write the NC letter. My FWH emailed the first one and because he was careful NOT to make his typical typos, OW thought I had written and sent it.

He handwrote the one that made a difference nearly 4 months later and then she sincerely appologized to me....FINALLY! I didn't expect that but it was nice and helped with closure.

Two suggestions:

Bite your tongue when the AOs start to rear their ugly heads. Even if he starts the argument, YOU can end it by (calmly and softly) refusing to engage. (I know...easier said than done.)

Lay off the bottle when stress rises. You need all your wits about you to deal with things, especially helping your F?WH defog. He seems to be doing fine but YOUR self-induced foggy brain will only lead to problems.

Oops..I lied but this third suggestion is one I (and others) mentioned before: read all you can here, buy/order SAA, FIL/SIL, HNHN and LB books, and call for help with your plan for recovery (either call the MB MC center or the live radio show).

Keep posting, Euluna...you can do this. You seem to have a head start over many but you must keep diligent and not become complacent.

Best wishes in all your efforts,
Ace

Eluna,

Of course your FWH is going to vary between depression and happiness.

Of course you're going to feel really angry and a lot of hurt.

And then you're not. And then you are.

At first, you felt real fear on DDay...huge...so the hurt was just a whimper in it.

So it was for your FWH, too...his huge fear of losing you.

Your fear of losing him.

When really, you both were afraid of losing the marriage.

You are doing fantastic in your choices...even though you feel angry, resentful, furious, frustrated and hurt...you don't react to it (for the most part). You use your mind to figure out how else to verify the truth.

Inspirational, Eluna. Truly.

Now, don't over do your doing...part of redemption is your FWH acting transparent...so you don't call and check up on him...he calls to inform you...two or three times a day...and always if there is a change in plan from where he thought he'd be to where he really is...or is doing.

That's for him...he has to rebuild trust in himself, too, as well as your trust. Give him room to do that. You're a super capable, clear-thinking woman, seems to me. Give him room to redeem, too.

How long did the A last?

You're going to get more angry, btw, as you come to really trust you're not losing him...because you didn't do anything to make him choose to have an A. That's reasonable and understandable, 'k? Don't fight with him.

Write out your anger in "I" statements...own your anger. Part of the process of personal recovery is to not take on any responsibility for his choice to have an A...and later, when NC is fully verified, he's through withdrawal, and you're questions have all been answered, and he knows exactly why he chose to have an A...then you work on issues pre-A in the marriage, the environment, 'k?

I like how you're not hot-headed unless you have a fever.

Ask him to make a list of Extraordinary Precautions...where he won't confide intimately about the marriage or his stuff with any member of the opposite sex. Where he will not email others without cc'ing you (non-work related)...nor will you. You're a team...you are both for the marriage...even when you don't feel like treating your spouse well.

Understand you cannot make him feel your pain...it's truly indescribable...he cannot have your experience, walk in your shoes. He has to comprehend the depths of it over time...share your triggers with him so he is with you through them...even though he cannot undo them, ever.

Make sure to get in those 20 hours of UA time...I found RC activities were the best for that...where you have fun together, get to know each other as the allies you really are...each half of the union...instead of enemies (he had to make you the bad guy to justify his horrific choice...and you know you see him as the enemy because he attacked the marriage with an A)...

Takes time, persistence, endurance...and talk about EPs because that's what his biodad lacked...no boundaries, no boundary enforcements. He can never be like his biodad if he makes different choices.

As for real or not real...he has coached himself in fantasy...so what is reality and what he thinks it is will vary...he truly fears you "abandoning" him above all else...the more days/weeks/months that go by that you choose to recover, the less that fear is there...so yes, he might hide, revert, deceive...when he feels safer.

Don't know. Won't know until you get there. Your job is to learn a lot so that you decide what you'll do if/when...and you already did that...you chose to stay and try to recover. You make great choices. Doesn't mean you make the same ones, over time...depends on your own boundaries and their enforcements.

LA

Hey Eluna,

How did MC go?

Ace

LA

The affair lasted just under 3 months before he ended.

Ace,

MC was ok yesterday. I felt we were making some headway. Even decided to stop going week to week and start every 2 weeks.

And then last night, another trigger. My husband is a gamer, and part of us drifting apart was the time he spent gaming. When we got ready for bed last night I went and took a shower. He mentioned that he wanted to game on my laptop, so I saw no problem. After I got out of the shower, I figured he would wrap it up and go on to sleep. Instead I woke back up around 1 am and he was still gaming. I got really upset about it, could not even go back to sleep and when I did I had nightmares all night.

I told him that those actions made me feel abandoned, since that is how I had felt when he was always on the computer prior to D-Day. And that it really hurt me. So now we are starting to work on this issue, along with all the others. UGHHHHHHHH.

For me it is one thing if he is online playing for an hour or so, but 4-5 hours of gaming is too much. Especially when he spent the entire day complaining about how exhausted he was and that our alarm goes off at 5:30 That was time we could have been snuggled up together, or if he had gotten offline before I went to sleep, time we could have spent together.

And before anyone asks, since I was sleeping while he was on the computer, I checked the KL this morning. The only activity was his game.

Did you tell him that you wanted him to come to bed?
"Why don't you play (game) while I finish getting ready for bed? It should take me about 45 minutes. Sound good?"

Also maybe talk to him at somepoint while he is not gaming and ask if you too can come up with a reasonable amount of time for him to game in a day/week. That you two should have your UA time before he games. Or he gets a certain time slot each night to game so you both can plan around it.

Time slots are have been discussed for each of us. However those discussions have revolved around placing them into our "contract."

As far as telling him I wanted him to come to bed, the problem is that he was playing his game on the laptop in bed beside me So the only thing I could tell him at that point was to put the computer away and cut the lights off.

He sat down and wrote the NC letter out by hand last night. I have it in my purse to ensure she gets it. He has pointed out her car, so I think I will take a friend and have them put it on her windshield.

I would have mailed it, but he does not know her mailing address.

Eluna,

Here's a suggestion. Make time to find her mailing address so you can send it with a return receipt required. That way you will get a little green card with a signature stating that she (or whoever lives at that address) received it.

You seem to be trusting your H during a time when he may not be trustworthy. It's only been 2 months and in my experience that's way too soon.

Worst case scenario is that he points out the wrong car on purpose. Best case scenario is that you receive a green card assuring you she's received it, accepts it and you're able to begin rebuiding trust.

In between is the possibility that your H mistakes someone else's car for hers and you never find out. (Plus OW will never receive the NC letter.)

Put her name in www.Zabasearch.com and try all the cities she might live in.

Put her phone number in www.whitepages.com and use the "reverse look up" feature.

Pay for www.intellius.com to do an extensive search to find her work or home address.

If you don't have one, get a www.Classmates.com account and go to her school section where they usually list everyone and often have a segment where it says "what are they doing now"? That's how I eventually found OWH's WORK address and then phone number across the country.

Sorry I can't lurk or post during the daytime but I am praying that you will take/make time to send this NC letter directly to OW with proof that she received it. You can't know if she reads it or not, but at least you can look at the card when things get tough and have something tangible to help you overcome. I did not realize it at first, but that little card helped me in the early days of recovery.

Regarding your H's possible addiction to gaming, that could be an area that spells trouble without your knowing it. My H's EA started in online gaming through their chat feature. That's how I discovered D-Day #4....went into the history and saw all the hours he was spending gaming (when he said he only spent a few minutes). That was 6 months (and 2 more D-Days) after D-Day #1.

Your H needs to earn your trust, Eulana. Giving it to him prematurely could set you up for multiple D-Days like I suffered because that's exactly what I did (did not know about MB until well after D-Day #4 ~ actually didn't know that D-Day #4 was a D-Day until much later when our MC said that if WH was looking for OW through playing games, it was a D-Day when I discovered him lying. WH's intent was to find her and try to resist her, and even if she wasn't there, his intent and subsequent lying was why it was classified as a D-Day for me by our MC.)

Hope this helps, and I trust others will share their experiences, too.

Ace

P.S. ETA: OW had told me that they went to her H's hometown on vacation, plus she told me what he did for a living while we were trying to be friends. That's how I knew what to look for on that Classmates account list of "where are they now?".

I hope you made a photocopy of the letter, Eluna. If you read my suggestions too late (and a friend has already dropped off the letter on A car ~ maybe the correct one, maybe not), it's not too late to mail a copy to her at her work address ~ which your H must know if he pointed out her car.

If he pointed it out at her apt. then you can find her address/unit number by approaching the manager. They are bound by privacy laws but some managers are bored and seeking drama and often have loose lips and willingness to help. You'd be amazed at the odd ways you can find out information.

If nothing else, have a Private Investigator find out for you....you seem to have plenty of tips to make it happen. Keep a copy of his handwritten NC and clip it to the green card when it arrives. I kept all my stuff in my 'evidence box' in case we ever went to Plan D and I needed it for court.

Praying for you,
Ace

Ace,

Actually I have already gone on intellius and found her information. I had just been trying to decide on whether to return receipt or not.

As far as gaming, we are currently talking about my WH limiting his gaming to the console units (Xbox and Wii) , which are mainly 1-2 player games, not MMOs. Although there are some console multi-player games, his current console games of choice are not.

Just curious...why would you NOT request a return receipt?

Ace

It was not that I would not, it was that the thought had just occurred to me. So I was going back and forth on if I could trust the PO to ensure she got it. That was all.


Thanks for all the advice. It is my break time so I am going to get this ready and head to the PO to mail it.

Good for you!

Keep us posted on your progress.

Ace

Not been having a good few days. I have been having nightmares for the past few nights. I am currently looking at calling my primary doctor and hoping she will prescribe something for me.


Almost hoping for Lexapro or Effexor. Last time I was on them, I became an emotional zombie. I could feel nothing; happy, sad, or in between. I realize that some of what is going on with me at the moment is my hormonal state, but I am not sure how much longer I can deal with this emotional downturn.

As for my marriage, nothing really new to report. I have been locked in my own emotional h@ll so I can not move forward at this time. I don't think I am even trying these last couple of days

How's it going, Eluna? ETA: Sorry to hear about your emotional nightmares. Glad you're checking with your doctor for meds.

The return-receipt card will have a signature of the person who receives the mail. If you sent it to her office, it could be a mail-clerk but if you sent it to her home it will be her or her 'significant other'.

I forgot if you've mentioned whether or not she's married or has a boyfriend. Is she married? (If so, exposure to him is the next step to help rebuild your trust. At least, that's how it worked for us.)

Way to go. Thanks for the update...we were simulposting!.

Ace

WS has been at my side constantly the past few days. Even when I just want to curl up and be left alone. He will sit in the room away from me, and just talk to me or bring me tissue to wipe my eyes. Sometimes I feel like he is on vigil trying to protect me from more pain, but that is a futile task at this point.

I want to believe these are the actions of someone who really wants to work on our marriage, but these days I don't know what to believe. He does not get upset with me about any thing I am doing, even when I ask for his keys to snoop through his car he did not get upset. He said it made him feel uncomfortable and he did not like the feeling, but if it would ease my mind then it was worth it.

So far I can find not contact. Not even a hint. what do I do now? I want to move forward, but feel stuck.

Remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint. You've got quite a bit ahead of you. You are still in the middle of processing everything. It's going to take some time, Eluna. Everything sounds very encouraging, though.

Have you gone through the Emotional Needs Questionnaire with your H? That would be a good next step.

Expect to have good days, then bad days as you recover. Meds can help. I didn't use them, although my Dr. did give me a prescription after I told him my story. (I went to be tested for STDs. Have you done that?)

The rollercoaster didn't even out for me for about 14 months. Most of my days are good days now. (15 months into R) I wish I could give you the magic bullet, but there isn't one. Time and a repentent H will help heal you. Read everything on this site to affair-proof and rebuild your M.

I have taken the Emotional Needs Questionaire, but have not discussed it with him in depth. I wanted to wait until he was a little farther into His Needs, Her Needs.

As far as STDs. One of the first things I told him to do was to go get tested. When I found out that some STDs were easier to detect on a woman, I went to my OBGYN and had a full screen done as well. Luckily everything was negative, but I went off several times asking how he could so callously toss my life and our son's life into potential danger like that.

His results came back the day before I had my panel done. And given the timing of the affair and D-Day, my Dr felt comfortable that duplicate negative results would put me in the clear.

Good girl.

I'm new and just reading threw this post has helped me alittle just because my WH has done everything your husband has such as given up computer, answers questions, and tells me when he's leaving where and when he'll be home and so on almost seems to easy..

Altho he had a PA with my sister that is alittle harder to work threw but just reading through these posts makes me wonder if he realized he just made a huge mistake, I hope you and your husband make it I will pray for you.

I know it's going to be tuff. But us women can be a strong lot.

Hi Jan,

It is tough, but that is why were are here. Looking for support and information. Interesting thing: The nightmare I had yesterday involved my WS sleeping with my sister. It is not reality, but it still shook me to the core even though it was a dream.


Ok Two quick updates:

1. She signed for the letter at 1:22pm today. I am starting to feel like I am taking some of my life back. Am I the only one who finds it a little liberating that the OP has to go to the Post Office and sign for a letter stating "leave me alone" from the WS?

2. I started my anti-depressants this morning. Although it should take 2-4 weeks to reach full effect, I did read that I could see a small change in as little as 8 hours. So maybe the fact I feel a little relaxed this evening is a good sign for this drug.

Ok just got back from a mini-date with WH. He took me out for some ice cream. First time I have wanted any this year. Like I said, maybe this is an upswing. Here is hoping.

Medication seems to be helping. Everyone has commented that I seem more relaxed, so I guess that is a good thing.

WS is down. He said it is because last week I told him that everyday it is harder for me to love him. I did say that, because everyday I was getting angrier and nothing was getting through to me. That is one of the main reasons I asked for medication.

I don't know what to believe at this point. I told him that I am operating under the premise that he was down for reasons other than me and if not then it was he responsibility to prove otherwise to me.

Still stuck in limbo.

Don't try to get a wayward to come to their senses, Eluna. He'll do that eventually. It sounds to me like you're trying to goad him into straightening up, and I don't think that's wise. Stay supportive and loving, bite your tongue when you want to start poking at him.

I have finally reached a calm day.......

Yesterday we started talking about recreational activities that we can do together. We even went on an evening stroll together.

Finally Friday. Maybe I will have a good weekend. Here's hoping.

I should mention that I have broached the subject of WH coming to the forums and posting. He said he has not made up him mind as to whether he wants to or not, but at least he has not shot it down completely.

ELNC:

Have you read MisterJK's thread?

A WH who just came here?

Its interesting. THere is a time for your WH to come here. Don't push it.

An MB weekend may be better for the two of you.

LG

LG,

Actually we both read MisterJk's Thread yesterday.

As far as a MB weekend, although I would love for us to do that, financially it is out of the question at this time.

As far as pushing him, as I said, I broached it and have left it at that. It is up to him if he chooses to come into the fold here. I only mentioned that he MAY be able to find help from FWS who have successfully began recovering their marriages after an affair.


Thanks

So I decided to do a little snooping today on the OW. I logged into my old FB account and went to her page (she has blocked my H from seeing her page, and I have her on perma block on our joint account, but she never blocked her account from my FB.) Looks like she is now in a new relationship.

Part of me is thinking THANK GOD!!!!!


And then there is that vengeful side of me that really wanted to type "Is he married, just like my husband was when you were screwing him?" on her status update. I did check the new guy's relationship status, and after seeing nothing of interest, I logged out and logged back into our joint FB. No comments left, and I think I will keep this tidbit completely to myself where H is concerned.


Progress? Comments please

Good to hear that she seems to have moved on. Don't mention anything to your H about it. You want to keep this snooping tool to yourself.

Thanks MB.

Yes, I agree. I need to keep this one to myself.

As a part time hobby, I make and sell jewelry. So today WE are going to be spending the day at a local arts celebration trying to sell my work. I hope things continue to improve. I will say I feel like the Sarafem is working wonders for me. And the fact that she is now in a new relationship has done alot to ease my mind.

Well that was an interesting day. For the most part things seemed to go pretty well, except once when I came back taking our son up the road to visit briefly with an acquaintance. When I came back he was checking his phone. Having seen him checking his phone, I immediately felt my heart sink. My first thought was that he was in contact with her. I asked what he was doing and he said he was checking FB to see if his friend Jon had sent a notification if he was coming to the show or not.

I found no evidence to suggest he was doing anything other than what he claimed, but it still made me really uncomfortable.

And before anyone wonders if he was texting her..... His phone does not have texting ability, because I removed it from both of our phones when I took over the account.

So this morning it dawned on me one of the reason's I have withdrawn from the situation some. One of the reasons I married my husband was because I felt safe and secure with him. For the first year of our marriage, I could not rest until he was in the room with me.


Now that safety and security has been shaken to its very core. And I am afraid I will never feel safe again because of this type of betrayal.

Has anyone else felt this way? Is there any hope?


I also realize that I am completely POed. How come the OW can more on with her life as if nothing has happened, when WS and I are left to try to pick up the pieces and rebuild something THEY BOTH tried to destroy? It is so not fair! I am so angry. I am glad that she is not a threat atm, but still. Why do I have to suffer this betrayal but she gets to move on as if nothing happened?

Comments? Words of Wisdom?

She is a loose woman. She may just move on to another man (victim) but she will never be happy. She will just bounce from man to man and never have anything meaningful.

In the book the love dare they talk about following your heart in one of the appendixes. Basically said that is a terrible way to live your life since your heart is flighty and just reacts to whatever emotion they feel at the time. Your heart is prone to sin as well.

While you are building a strong foundation of a marriage that will be satisfying in the long run and that will give you peace. That is peace that the OW will never get.

Hopefully that will give you some comfort during the long recovery.

BTW keep checking her status. When they drop out of a relationship they sometimes try to rediscover old flames. Just ensure NC.

Oh, yeah, we've been there. What you're feeling is normal. You'll feel safe again - this is part of your healing. Right after d-day I would look at my H and see a stranger. I would wonder how he could be 'normal' with me during his A, knowing that his head was filled with thoughts of OW while he sat right next to me.

It wasn't so much the safety and security that I felt robbed of - it was my reality. That was what I had to heal from, my loss of my reality during his A.

We talk a lot about the karma bus around here. That's what is going to visit your OW. You probably won't know about it when it happens. But she will pay - it's the yin and yang of the world.

Thank you for the encouragement.

I believe in Karma and I know that it will hit her hard when it does come back around. I just wish it would hit her now.

I guess I am still in this feeling of vengence that wishes she would get hit by a bus.

Part of me understands that maybe this is God's way of telling us to build a better marriage, but it still sux. I spend alot of my time feeling like things will never get better. I feel so hopeless. I can't trust anything he tells me, but have to trust something otherwise I will never be able to move on.

I am so afraid of letting go control of where I am because what if I trust that we are rebuilding and it turns out he is lying to me again? How can I trust that he is being honest with me at all about anything?

I want to move forward away from this pain, but I am scared @#@*%less to do so because of the what ifs........

Update:

So we had our MC session yesterday. We talked about the fact that we do not get nearly enough UA time. And that there were some new hobbies he wants to try.

I explained that while the hobbies themselves did not bother me, I felt he should try to include me in them. I then went on to explain the possible setup that may lead to issues with individual hobbies.

We did agree that since we needed more UA time, we needed to find a way to achieve that. So we agreed to try putting our son to bed earlier.

To that end, when we got home last night, we converted DS's crib to a toddler bed in the hopes that he would have an easier time sleeping in it.

After we fixed the bed together, we went downstairs and had dinner. Then we gave DS a bath and got him ready for bed. He stayed in the room with me while DS went to sleep. Then we went downstairs and cleaned up.

Afterwards we spent about 2 hours together. We shut the TV off and put music on. We just enjoyed that time together.

Romans 12 addresses vengeance.

Rom 12:19 Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but [rather] give place to wrath; for it is written, "Vengeance [is Mine, I will repay]," [fn] says the Lord.

I am trying to fight my own feelings of anger towards the OM. I know how hard it is but that scripture keeps me going.

Well today has been an effing disaster! I forgot to take my AD's this morning and so I have been on a LB rampage for the past hour. I know I should stop, but I feel so much anger I want to scream!

He asked me what I needed to feel better and I told him I would love to hit him atm but he was not worth the price I would have to pay.


GRRRRR. I have to get control. I am sooooooo Angry it is literally making me sick on my stomach. How could he do this to us?

He keeps saying it was because he was lonely. I have been right here. If he was lonely he should have said something. I told him the only reason he was lonely is because he chose to be.

To make things worse, he seems to be expecting to move right past this into a better marriage. He acts like he expects me to move right on. I am still processing. I am still grieving. But as usual I am doing it alone. Where is he? He has disappeared into the other room.

Exactly. He could have TOLD you.

im niot trying to take the WH side here but did you tell him what you needed tonite? Maybe there is a way you could communicate what he could do to help. If it was just to sit there and berate him say it. He might be willing to do that.

Leaving the room isnt always a bad thing. Maybe he was trying to avoid LBing behavior. I have taken the approach with my WW that id rather leave and try the next day than get suckered into a fight.

Its a marathon. you are driving the recovery train. You dictate the pace of how fast this goes. He needs to be willing to take it slow if thats what you need. Just be sure to communicate it effectively to him.

Did you get all your questions answered for the A? Maybe there is some residual doubt you have about it. Maybe you could ask him to take a lie detector test to ensure NC or that another A isnt going on. Maybe that could give you some comfort.

A little late to the party, but thoughts on this....

I know EXACTLY how you feel. EXACTLY.

Time is the one thing that's healed us. D-day was 19 months ago, and the R really started about this time last year. She has been doing pretty much everything she can to help me through all this.

I know intellectually that there is ZERO chance of anything rekindling, or even anything else of this nature ever happening again, but the rest of me is still catching up.

As for the POSOW, again, I know how you feel. When I exposed to Mrs. Pond Scum (he had been lying to everyone about his marital status, so my first question to her was if she was married to him!) she talked as if she'd bought his gaslighting hook, line, and sinker. She even lied to me about things that were verifiable. (Yeah, I'm the guy everyone lied to about everything. Lucky me.) She did tell me what he'd said about my then-WW, and when I relayed it back to her, any WD she was experiencing ended then and there -- a bucket of ice water to the face, as it were.

It seems like he was able to escape any consequences for his actions, but I really don't know that for sure. I have no contact with him -- thankfully, as one of us would be hospitalized or worse, and the other would be in the graybar hotel -- but remember the Karma Bus.

That POS is overdue to get some tire tracks across his torso. I'd love to be the agency that applies the punishment and have my license plate numbers stamped mirror image into his forehead, but I know that ain't gonna happen. I just have to be content in the knowledge that he's going to pull this crap one time too many, and some other BH with less to lose and a shotgun will take care of things for the rest of us.

In other words, his day will come.

And so will the POSOW's. Bank on it.

He just informed me that he is "willing" to leave the 2 most important people in his life (me and DS) just so I don't have to suffer anymore.......


Does this smell rotten to anyone else?


I told him that first he shows me how little I mean to him by having the A and now he is telling me that I am not even worth fighting for? At this point he broke down and started crying "That is not what I meant at all"

Only a few hours of sleep and now I have a horrible migraine. I just took my AD for the day. Hopefully it will level my emotions back out once it kicks in.


Grr still really angry.

I might have missed a few of your posts, but I've got to respond to this: your H probably didn't mean that. I think he's frustrated over witnessing your healing (and that's what it is, even when you feel horrible) and is at a loss over how to help you. Have you told him things that he can do to help you? Are the two of you working on your ENs?

My poster boy FWH has cried so many times over his actions. His remorse is huge. But I've had to tell him what upsets me, and what helps me.

I had to increase my dosage. Is that something your doctor has looked at yet?

YEG I forgot the medicine yesterday. I feel like this is why I got so down last night since I have not been on the medicine long enough to have a constant level in my blood yet.

MB

Thank you for your response on this. I wanted to believe that he did not mean it, but since this has all started I don't know what to believe.

Well we had a break through of sorts today. I had not mentioned it before, but WS has had an issue with porn for sometime. Although it bothered me when we first got together, I viewed it as harmless since it was just videos and mags. Like many I have had to learn the hard way about the dangers of porn to a marriage......

We have talked about him removing this stuff for a while. Due to how much and how strong his obsession for it was, I have slowly been working with him in removing it from our lives. The first of it was placing a child filter on his phone, and he engaged parental overrides on his IPOD and giving me access to create a password. But having the videos and mags inn the house has continued to bother me. So today he started getting them moved into one central location. We loaded it all up and took it to the dump.

He is down in the dumps now, but that was expected. I am just thankful that he has actually done it finally. It is a BIG step towards making things right.

BTW he starts IC next week to deal with these issues with a qualified counselor.

Well that was a first. He came in from mowing the lawn a little bit ago. A while he was out there he picked me a gardenia.

I begged for the first year of our marriage for him to pick flowers from the yard and give them to me. He never did and I stopped asking. So Wow! It did make me feel good.

be careful about missing a dose. i get VERY bad dizzy spells when i miss mine. Ive had bad days and accidents as well so I know what your going through.

I think the migraine that had me out of work yesterday was a result of both missing my dose, and the excess emotional roller coaster I was on as a result. But at least things seems to have stabilized for a bit.

I am kinda feeling blue today. Have an appt with the Dr at 4 and will talk to her about my medication levels. Don't know if she will recommend increasing the dose or not.

Have been talking to WS via google chat most of the day. Talking about different things. Just wish I was not here and in this situation. The sun is out and the birds are singing, but for me atm I feel like I am living under a dark cloud.

I want to believe he is really trying. I don't have the courage to believe it though. I am just don't feel like I can rely on my gut atm, because I am feeling nothing from it.

We have to show consistent actions to prove we have changed. We didnt even stray. So there is nothing wrong with making them keep it up.

You aren't quitting. You arent closing him out. Your just being skeptical. I think thats healthy. Recovery is a long process.

I have been talking to WS about expressing his honest emotions with me. He responded with this......

"i know most of the time i look like this whole mess doesn't bother me, part of it is avoidance and dealing with small parts of it at a time, part of it is so that DS isn't bombarded by our emotions all the time
but it does bother me but i can't let it rule my thoughts all day everyday....i would go insane if i did."

Umm how should I take this? Is this normal for a WS? Or is this a red flag? I am so confused. Please help.

Normal. I don't see a red flag here. He is compartmentalizing in order to cope. My FWH did/does the same thing. He said he has to put it away or the guilt and shame of what he did would be too much for him to bear but that he remembers it every day, like a trauma. After seeing him crying his eyes out over what he did to me, I accept that. He needs to heal, too. As does your H.

late response but I love gardenias. Their smell is so amazing.

Anyways.


Im sorry for my lazyness but I cant remember the earlier posts. Are you still needing questions answered about the A? If you do its probbaly better to just write them down and only talk about them for like 30 minutes a couple of times a week. Maybe you could POJA this idea.

One of my problems is I will get frustrated and get upset. When WW sees me get upset she withdraws. It kills the day. I lose valuable UA time with her. Im trying to limit my emotions around her. She gets upset because the guilt hits her of how bad she hurt me.

Defiantly keep focusing on meeting needs. It will help. She resisted at first but now because I have consistantly been the only one meeting her needs for a while she is starting to let me do more.

Well that is another step forward.

WS told me that only his parents and I had his work number. Obviously I did not completely believe that one. So after it had come to my attention that he had given that number to another acquaintance, I found myself a bit apprehensive about his work number, esp where POSOW was concerned. Today I figured how just how much it was bothering me. So I chatted with WS about the situation.

For the first few minutes I got the whole, "there has been NO contact" after I finally got tired of hearing that and laid it out as this so maybe he could walk in my shoes briefly.....

"If I was h3ll bent on making you pay by giving you just desserts and you knew this. So I gave ex-boyfriend from years ago my work phone number to talk to him and then "promised" to tell you if he called me, but remember I am out to make you pay. Then how comfortable would you be with the knowledge that he had my work # where you would have no idea if he called or not, regardless of what I say."

He called the group in charge of phone extensions in order to find out how to get his work number changed.

It is a step in the right direction. And while getting the extension changed maybe a pain, at least it is further cutting any possible contact between POSOW and WS.

Like I said, a step in the right direction.

Discovered that one of my biggest ENs is admiration. WS even acknowledged this, but so far he has not been making a big effort to meet that need. A few compliments thrown around here and there, but not much else.


Will have to deal with that elephant later though. WS is sick and running a fever. We were suppose to go to a party from one of my high school classmates this afternoon. But obviously not going to happen.

WS told me to go if I really wanted to go. I told him that would mean spending recreational time away from one another and that was not a good idea esp right now.

We had a beach trip planned for today, but since WS is still running a fever, we needed to cancel that. My parents took DS for a few hours so we could get some rest.

According to WS I am racking up some major deposits in his bank because I am taking care of him while he is sick. I have never been a constant touching person, but I have always been the type of person to care for someone when they are sick. Florence Nightingale wannabe I guess.

I spent a good deal of yesterday feeling down. I realize that since WS is so sick, and spent 90% of yesterday sleeping, he does not have the energy to fill any of my ENs, but I was still feeling rejected because of it. I guess that tells me that my bank is pretty low on deposits?

Thoughts? Comments?

Told WS last night about how I was feeling, that I felt rejected emotionally. I explained that although I knew intellectually that he did not have the energy to fill any of my ENs, that his actions while being sick were very similar to how he responded to me during the A. So while I understood, I still felt very rejected emotionally.

He told me that he had been trying to make sure I did not feel rejected and that was why he was trying to be near me all weekend. I had to explain that he was trying to fill my ENs by using techniques that would fill his ENs. He is the one that craves physical touch. I explained that most of my ENs involved talking; Admiration, Conversation, Openness and Honesty........

I asked WS what was his goal for our M. He said he wanted us to be able to live together peacefully. I got a bit upset with this statement, because we are still living together. I told him that according that his statement, we have already reached his goal, that that is not what MB is about. It is about falling in love again and learning to put your spouse first in your life. Because if you are putting your spouse's happiness above your own, then you are not allowing your selfishness to invade the relationship and cause damage.

After a few minutes of quite, WS started to explain the things he admired about me. He said two or three, and then got quite again for a few minutes. Then he started crying and told me that he admired my strength because I kept our family together even when he did not want to. That he was upset because he had failed me as a friend, husband, and father. That he did not deserve us as a family. At which point I asked him whose decision it was whether I stayed; his or mine? I was trying to de-fuse the "I hate myself" before it got too deep.....

I then thanked him. He asked me what for, and I explained that for the first time since this horror story had started, he had been open and honest with me. And while I may not agree with his statements, I knew what he was telling me was coming from his heart, I could tell the difference. I told him thank you for trusting me to tell me.

At that point he started feeling sick again (was running a fever all weekend) so I told him to get in bed, and I would get everything shut down for the night and come on to bed myself. So it was not the best weekend, but there are little steps that mean the world to me right now.

And at least I do not need to worry about POSOW for a bit since she seems to be engaged in her "new" relationship. That at least has taken a small bit of worry from me so I can devote it back to my M.

Well WS just let me know that he did get his work number changed. So now I know that one more avenue of contact has been severed.

These are postive steps right? Please give my some input. I feel like I am still running blind.

Just off to bed and stumbled upon your thread. My eyes are too sore to read it all now.

I will read another time, just didn't want you to feel like you are talking to yourself.

You may have already been through this, so don't bother answering if you have, but have you verified NC and are you still verifying?

and just picking up on your last few posts, try to change your focus slightly from what he is or isn't doing to what you are doing.

Are you doing all the things within your control to make sure you enjoy life?

How do you stop the anger from raging? Even though he is doing everything I ask, even if he does drag his feet about some of it, I still have days that I am just angry.

On those good days when things go right, I feel like I am living a lie. WS had an affair, and nothing I say or do changes that fact. I feel like I am lying to myself, pretending everything is ok, when it is not. Yes we are working on the M, EPs are being put into place. ENs are being explored and discussed. UA is being established. But it feels like by enjoying the UA time, and using this time to reestablish a connection with my husband that I am lying to myself.

Does anyone else feel this way? I know I am complicating the issue, but has anyone else felt this way?

Have you read any of the threads of people that have recovered their marriage? Have you read any of the threads on the recovery board? I am CERTAIN that there is a lot of posts out there that deal with this sort of thing. I know that Mark posts a lot about feelings and triggers. Have you delved into his stuff?

Is your WH exhibiting any signs of withdrawal?

Yes NC has been established and I continue to verify with the tools I have available. One thing I have learned is that POSOW changed her relationship status on FB on D-day from relationship to single. The day following her receipt of the NC letter (I had the letter tracked so I know when she signed for it) she updated her status again to a new relationship with a different guy. I have verified that it is not a hidden account used by my WS since both accounts are open to access currently, but I doubt either one realizes it.

What am I doing.
I have been placed on ADs because I can not deal with the reality of the A without help at this point.
WS and I are establishing a daily routine to include UA time.
I created a google account so that WS and I could chat throughout the day.
I removed his computers (the main access for the affair) from our house on D-day (figured I may need the info on them if I went for D so removed them out of his reach before I confronted him.)
I am identifying triggers and attempting to create alternate routines to go around them or overcome them.
I am identifying my ENs.
I have essentially given up my favorite past time, simply because it has become a stressor trying to deal with it and our M.
I have made plans so that WS and I can spend some time together minus our DS.
I had been walking twice a day, but since the heat has moved in (close to 100 over the past couple of days) I have had to let go of that for a bit. Hope to start back soon.
I have started going back to church, not sure how that is working out yet.
I am attempting to keep an appreciation journal of my WS, so that when things suck I can look at that and try to remember the good stuff.
That is all I can think of off the top of my head, atm.

No WH is not acting like he is in withdrawal anymore. He is spending a lot of positive time with me and DS. Lots of play, SF, affection, and while we are at work, lots of convos through google chat.

I have not been reading the recovery board as I am not sure when I should move there? I guess maybe that is where I should be since I am not currently dealing with a Plan A or a Plan B.

hi,
It all sounds like he has committed to you and your DS.....keep checking, keep doing all the positive things and just enjoy the new hubby you seem to have.....
It won't ever be the same as it was before the A, it can be better work towards that......I wish you two the best.....
Consider yourself lucky not all these situations go that easy.........

Completely !

I DO feel exactly like you. I posted this feeling in my thread. That is the reason that I am always thinking about D, the only thing preventing me to file for it are our children. Is is like being trapped in a maze. Too bad.
Courage !

I would stay here. Your in a recovery but your thread will get more eyes on it and feedback on this forum.

You don't have to move there if you don't want to. I just meant that you could read some of the threads over there. Especially the ones of people who have recovered. When you read someone else's recovery thread you may find some helpful advice.

The only reason I asked about the withdrawal symptoms was to make sure any efforts for EN meeting will become deposits.

Take care.

In your case Charles, the affair is not over yet. Your WW still has contact with the OM.

Ok so today was H3ll at work. I have been so caught up in dealing with the aftermath of the A, that I have gotten behind at my job. I had two deadlines due today so I have been extra stressed due to that.

Well somehow I managed to get everything done today that I needed to. However the surprising thing happened when I got home. I had just pulled out my laptop and began to sit down on the couch, when I noticed ROSES tucked behind a throw pillow on my spot on the couch. ROSES!

I broke down and started crying! I gave WH a huge hug to thank him for the flowers. That was a good deposit for me

That is so sweet, Eluna!! I have been reading your thread because it seems a bit like my sitch. Good luck to you, and please keep posting. Your story has helped me immensely!!!

Well work seems to be getting a little better, so at least some of the stress is off in that corner.

Tomorrow is our (WS and I) fifth wedding anniversry. I am not really in a celebrating mood obviously, but I am planning to try to enjoy the evening with WS.

I mean he could have walked away in March, but he did choose to stay. He did choose us over POSOW, so that is saying something right? I just wish I had opened my eyes sooner. Maybe then he would not have cheated.......

Well today is my wedding anniversary. I find myself thinking about WH's A this morning. I guess this is normal, just wish I could have found a card that said something to the effect of "things are tough right now, hope they get better"
This should have been an extra special anniversary: 5 years. Now I just can't feel it.

I had one of our mutual friends send us a congrats on five years marriage. He said we "look so happy together". I wanted to vomit!!

I use to know what happy was, now all I feel is pain and anger. I keep trying to put on a smile, but I feel like this nightmare will never get better.

On my way into work this morning, I found myself thinking about the A and him being with her. These are imaginings I don't want, but yet they are there.

Someone please! Any words to help me get through today? I could really use some advice. I did not expect today to be as rough as it is turning out to be.

well we went to lunch and exchanged cards. I really wanted to enjoy the time, but I just did not.

Please anyone! I feel so alone in this. How have you dealt with your wedding anniversary after D-Day?

Please help.

I don't know how to deal with your wedding anniversary after DDay. I can tell you that I am sure that it is HARD AS HECK. Have you read Mark's thread on managing memories?

It is a day you can't ignore, but at the same time, you must not feel like celebrating. When you celebrate your 10th anniversary, you can erase the horrible feelings from this one. I am so sorry.

Sorry Scotty I have not seen that thread yet. Can you link it for me?

Sure, just a sec. It's in his siggy line. I will just find a post by him.

Here ya go

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2267144&page=1

So I have been lost and confused this weekend. I know that most people feel like they want to know why the A happened. I have not really been plagued with that question. I don't know if it is because I feel like I already have that answer or if I just don't view it as ultra important at this time.

The question that is plaguing me is why he chose to fix his marriage instead of doing what so many others have done and followed the fog. I know to those of you who are struggling to bring back your WS, I probably seem ungrateful that I have not had to go through what you are. But at times I wonder if the struggle to recover your M from the grasp of these aliens somehow makes dealing with the questions brought up in Recovery a bit easier.

The night before I found out about the A, WH and I had a long talk about how he was so depressed. I had initiated that convo because I knew our M was not where I wanted it to be, so I had wanted to start working on fixing what was broken. At the time I did not know about the A, but I did feel that he was a little too friendly with POSOW. For some reason that night, I felt the extreme urge to pack a bag and leave for a few days. After struggling with that feeling for over an hour, I went a head and gave into it. I went upstairs and began packing a bag for myself and DS. I was upset about WS sharing personal problems with POSOW, but did not guess it had progressed into the PA, so I had no reason to leave other than this extreme feeling.

According to WH, him seeing that bag packed was the catalyst to wanting to get away from the A and repair our M. When I asked him why he chose me (I finally gave in and asked, I have been struggling with this question for several weeks) he told me that I did not realize how big of an impact seeing that packed bag was on him. That he would rather deal with a thousand kidney stones than ever go through the feeling he had in that moment.

I do believe that the packed bag had a lot to do with him making the decision to end things before I found out. And I am grateful everyday for the urge that made me pack that bag that night. However, this does not give me anything to hold onto in the darkness.

I guess maybe I just wish he would pop up and say that he realized he was messing up our M and that he realized he was in love with me and that is why he stopped things. I don't know. I feel like I can't move forward. I just wish I knew what was blocking my way.

Did you ask him?

Thats what Radical honesty is all about. you NEED to know this to recover. If you dont find out it will hinder it. I hope you find the answer you need.

I am one of those people what would love for my WH to come home. I DO NOT fault you for your feelings though, WHATSOEVER. You are going to have a differing set of feelings than me at different times. There are people who have a GREAT Plan A and their WS "wakes up." I know what you mean though about you want to know that it is about YOU. At first, the reason he came back, isn't so important, to your marital recovery(to you it is VERY important). It is giving you a way to recover. It was the door that opened up and you walked through it. I believe that after you recover, your WH will tell you that he loves you and only you and THAT was the REAL reason he came home.

I realized last night that I am not even sure what my biggest 2 ENs are. So how can WS fill them if I can not determine what they are.

I took the questionnaire, but the more I think about how I react to somethings, the more my top five are questionable to me. So maybe now I need to re-take the EN questionnaire.

Am I the only one that has had trouble clearly identifying their ENs?

Ok so we are pretty sure that my # 1 EN is admiration. And of course this is the one EN that WH has trouble with, he does not give compliments well

So I tried to explain to him the frustration I am feeling. I asked him how he would feel if I could meet his #2 and #3 ENs but failed miserably trying to meet his #1 EN. I explained that a big part of it atm is that my self-esteem took a big hit with the A, and that I felt part of his job in repairing the M was to fix that.

He tried to talk to me a little bit about it. He told me about the conversation he had with DS yesterday. He had asked DS if he was excited to go home and see mommy. When DS said yes, WH told me that he agreed with DS. He was excited to go home and see me.

After about an hour of talking, we had some fun and SF, and finally went to sleep sated.

After thinking about the trouble WH is having meeting my need for admiration, I decided to purchase 5 steps to romantic love. We met at lunch today and bought the book. I currently have it sitting beside me at my desk, and I am looking forward to reviewing it with WH this evening.

Eluna, my #1 EN after the A was Admiration and Affection, for sure. I felt so incredibly insecure and unsure and confused. My self esteem was in the [censored]*r, so to speak. That makes total sense.

Can you identify WHAT admiration you need? Like, a pat on the back and a peck on the cheek or a high five for doing the dishes, or for your H to tell you every day how awesome you are, or ... ? That was really hard for me to identify.

Gdar,

I have actually been working on that over the past week. I have looked at every time my heart does a happy flip (you know that feeling) because of something he has said or done. Most of the time it is the tender endearments and loving compliments. Occasionally it has been other things like how strong he thinks I am now since he is watching me survive the damage of his A.

I am making sure to point out to him each time he makes me smile or feel like that.

Admiration is simple since it comes from the heart, but for someone who has never been good with expressing their feelings, I guess it can be very frustrating indeed.

Well nothing really new to report today. WH and I did get to spend about an hour having a great time together laughing (we were watching wipeout together.)

Today he has sent me a couple of compliments over google talk, so I know he is trying.

A few weeks ago when I went back to Dr for a follow up, she upped my dose of ADs. I need to get those filled as I am now feeling like it is time to up it myself.

Friday we are planning to take DS to the beach. I hope it will be a lovely day.

So last night really suxed.

Everything was going really well, WH was on the floor playing with DS and his cars. I was tending our farm in farmville on FB. All of a sudden I see a msg come through on our joint FB from one of my WH's old classmates. She had located another classmate that WH had been looking for.

Ok all in all, there was nothing there to get upset about. Then I went back and looked at the msg again; it was also sent to POSOW.

Grrrrr. I was happy that my WH had been able to make contact with this classmate, as she is someone he has worried about for several years. And I am not worried about her as a threat, since she would be more into me than my husband.

It was the possibility that POSOW could use this new found friend as a way back into WH's life. I sat there sobbing when I saw that potential.

After I calmed down we went upstairs and put DS to bed. Then we came back down and I fell asleep on WH while watching TV. When I woke up, WH sent new friend an email (in front of me) telling her that we would love to get together with her, but it could not be a group thing. He told her in no uncertain terms that POSOW was not allowed in his life and he did not want to talk about the circumstances that have caused that.

Him not wanting to talk about it to an old classmate, I understand to a point. He has put the boundary in place, I just hope POSOW does not try to wiggle her way past it like the leech she is.

I think he handled this well.


Im sorry it hurt you. Its good he is respecting the boundaries though. Just be sure to keep that gap in the fence for the OW closed.

Thanks YEG.

I just hope new friend does not feel like she should "fix" POSOW and WH's friendship. Right now I am carrying that worry with me. I have no idea about this person's personality. Hopefully she will respect what my husband said and that will be the end of it.

I guess I should start looking forward to the beach tomorrow instead of worrying about this right now.

We had a good time at the beach on Friday. We got to enjoy watching DS explore the sand and waves.

Saturday was family reunion, so we were both stressed to the max when we finally left.

Sunday: got an email from WS new friend. She seemed to misunderstand WS's request and seemed to be informing him that should she hear something for POSOW she would let him know what was up.

WS ended up replying to her email that he did not want to know anything about POSOW. That he had ended and affair with her in March and now wanted nothing to do with her. That he and I are trying to work to fix the problems in our marriage.

I think he is showing a lot of accountability by reacting like that.


Me on the other hand, I am still having days I just want to walk away. We tried to SF last night, but I kept seeing images of POSOW and WS in my mind. Every time we would get close to enjoying ourselves, I would have those images pop into my mind. After the third round I finally gave up and settled on snuggling with WS.


I explained that I was having unpleasant images (not what the images were of) and that it was interfering in the mood. I explained that I am having trouble right now, because even though I see that he is doing everything I have asked (and then some) to mae things better, I need to feel like the only woman in his heart. And at this point, I just don't feel that.

Is it that we don't have enough UA time? Is that why I am still having so much trouble? Lately when we do have some UA time, either I fall asleep and/or we end up watching TV. I understand that is not they way to make things better. What can we do to bond, that will not involve leaving the house (typically UA time is after DS is put in bed so leaving the house is not really an option atm.)

Also I have been looking at picking up a book like 101 nights of great sex, to try to kick start the SF back and give me another focus so that images won't leak into my mind.


Any other suggestions? Please help.

UA time is crucial. Even people with recovered marriages claim that their LB gets depleted without the LB deposits UA gives.

Do you and your WH enjoy any card games? Board games? Do you have an Xbox, PS or Wii? I have thought about what I would do with WH if/when he came home. Those are some of the things I have come up with. It is harder to get UA in when you have small children but it is most definitely NOT impossible.

We tried something different last night: cards

WH has never really learned to play poker, so I tried to intrigue him with a game last night which lead into SF.

And shortly after SF: I felt the need to get on the laptop and he felt the need to play video games (single player).

I have found that when I start getting uncomfortable, I bury myself into the laptop. I guess so I don't have to deal with what I am feeling.

However, I brought up to WH that I was upset with the gaming. He is not doing it much atm, but during the A, his gaming acted as a barrier to keep me out.

I ended up telling him how resentful I was of the gaming. That while he was having his A, I spent almost a full month waiting for him to join me in our M bed, waiting for SF. And during that time he was downstairs gaming. At the time I thought I was being a good wife, giving him space, allowing him to indulge in his games without nagging, but at the same time I was sacrificing my needs to do that, so I am resentful of it now.

I ended up telling him that his gaming had made me feel like it was more important than I was. When he games, he feels like he HAS to get to the next save point before he can cut it off, regardless of what else is going on around him. To which he pointed out the amount of time I am on the laptop (again). And I agreed that I do spend too much time hiding on the laptop, however I pointed out that when someone tells me we need to go do something, I will immediately put it away regardless of what is going on. I pointed out that I had done that on numerous occasions, because even though I am hiding in the laptop, I realize it will still be there when I get back.

At one point I tried to stop the conversation because I felt DJed from him. I also realized that to a point I was probably being judgmental as well. Since he was not seeing an AO he did not understand why I wanted to stop the conversation. I had to explain that DJs were also love busters.

Was I trying to run from the conversation, probably. I am full of anger and resentment and trying not to LB. However I think that is one of the first real conversations we have had in a very long time.

You do realize this was your mistake, right?

If the laptop and his video games are mutual IB, they need to go... for both of you. That's not to say you can't return to them later on down the road, but at this critical stage, they need to go.

It takes 3 days to learn a new habit (or something like that) so the next time this urge hits you (both of you) go for a walk outside (even if its midnight and raining - more romantic anyway!), go to the kitchen and cook omlets together, give each other a shower, you get the idea.

Change your old habits.

Yes I did realize this. That is part of the reason I have been making a concerted effort to close the laptop and leave it closed when it is UA time as of late.

So my car is broken. WH and I are planning on trying to fix it this afternoon.

Since it is the waterpump that has gone out, we decided to carpool into work this morning so that the car will be ready when we get home to fix it.

I took that opportunity to talk with WH. I have been feeling very wayward lately. I have noticed both my actions and thoughts are not even close to those from several months ago. Since I do not want my wayward thoughts to continue, I decided to practice RH this morning.

He told me that he understood. That he was not upset with me feeling this way. He views this as I would never have had these feelings if he had not had the A.

I told him that his reaction hurt me, because it made me feel like he did not want to fight for our M. It felt too accepting. I did not feel like he was even a little worried that I may follow his footsteps and A.

I told him that I wanted him to also fight for me. To show me that he actually wants to be here with me. That I have not been feeling that and that I am wondering now what it would be like to have a guy who would fight to keep me.

Not trying to rub salt in his wounds, just trying to get him to realize that I feel like these feeling are threats right now. That this is not something to just ignore. I have put several EPs in place and put up my own boundaries to stop myself from straying, but the draw is stronger each day. I don't want to be this way. I want my husband, and my M. I need to keep focused on that, but each day I have more LB$ depleted than deposited

I am being honest with him, I just hope he steps up soon. Otherwise who knows what will end up happening.

Any thoughts here?

Got the car fixed on Friday. Afterward I asked for his USB to look through it. I found an email that he had sent to OW before I found out. I read some of it (not all of it) and the contents really hurt me.

I ended up get very angry and upset. I was ready to walk. However due to finances and obligations we had to pack up the car and head to MD for the weekend. On the trip up, we took some time to talk.

I am still trying to get the issue of why he chose me over her straight. I don't know why it is important to know, I just know that it is for me.

We ended up spending several hours over the weekend talking about that very subject. Although I am closer than I have been to that answer, I still am not sure. However the hours of genuine conversation has actually helped deposit into the LB$.

We also talked about a post-nup with the only stipulation being IF he has another A.

Baby is with the inlaws for the rest of the week so maybe we can get some RC in this week too.

Oh forgot to mention, we met up with one of our friends while we were in MD. He is one of the "Friends" I exposed to about the A.

The three of us went to a movie on the 4th, and being a typical woman I had to make a pitstop before leaving. Apparently during that time, our friend called my H out on his wayward behavior. Told WH that he needed to realize how special I am and he needed to do everything in his power to fight to keep me and our M.

It is nice to have the support of real friends. Those who will tell you when you are being an idiot. Those that will tell you to fix what is broken. Hoping that WH really does understand.

Getting frustrated!

Whenever I try to talk to WH about anything involving feelings, I tend to get 1-4 word answers. When we talk about anything else, loads of information.


I know WH is not comfortable discussing feelings, but I feel like I am pulling teeth to get any information. I am so frustrated that at times I feel like I want to throw in the towel.

I told him about how frustrated I am. I tried to explain it to him like this......


If I was to look at him and just say the word "grass" and leave the conversation. That word provides very little information, other than subject. There is no context in which to view the word. Whereas if I said "The grass is looking a little yellow today" there would be more information.



Please help! How do I get him to communicate without having to pull teeth? How can I get him more comfortable talking about this stuff?

Hello, Eluna. I noticed you talking to yourself this week and read your thread, hoping to offer you something. I�ll try.

First, please recognize that you are so early into recovery that not even your FWH�s total and swift rejection of OW is helping right now. Your trauma is still fresh, and there are no shortcuts past it. In addition to the work you and he are doing, you�re going to need TIME to process everything and get your marriage in a better place by meeting ENs, avoiding LBs, and using the POJA, over many months. Doesn�t happen overnight. Takes a couple of years to build (or rebuild) a good marriage. The new habits you create must be for a lifetime to KEEP that marriage strong.

If you�ve read much here, you know that recovery is a rollercoaster, and it whips around pretty violently at first. I think you�re expecting too much of yourself, too soon.

You may be expecting too much too soon from your H, too. It�s HARD for him to express how he feels�it was before the affair, remember? NOW, he�s got the guilt and the shame on top of his original difficulty. Every time he thinks about it, he cringes inside. Talking about it makes him feel worse, even though that�s what he needs to do, for your sake. Be patient. Give him time, too. My H felt all those things, but it was many months after D-Day before he could make himself verbalize it. Even then, it was in short, awkward statements. Being a BS myself, I believe it�s the harder position to be in, because we had no say�our WS�s garbage was just dumped on us. But it�s no picnic being a WS, either. Read some of their threads and see. Just because your H isn�t saying those things, doesn�t mean he isn�t feeling them, or feeling miserable about them.


Can you not see his guilt here, Eluna? He's allowing that it was HIS actions that put wayward thoughts into your head. He is accepting responsibility for YOUR FEELINGS. (Truth is, though, this is YOUR stuff. And yours to deal with. He can't "prevent" you from having an affair any more than you could prevent him from having one.)

What would it look like for him to "fight" for you? What is it, exactly, that you want him to do?


Glad you have put EPs in place for yourself, but I have to ask: What is it that is depleting your LB$? Is he hurling love busters at you? Or are you ignoring all he's doing and dwelling on lack...because you are so angry? Are you trying to punish him?

How is he not "stepping up?"

I see you thinking about a revenge affair�why would you think violating your own integrity would improve anything??? If marriage were a tennis match, evening the score would make sense, but this isn�t a game. This involves the most important issues of your life. Tell me, does your H feel GOOD about what he did? From what you�ve said, he is down�depressed, even. He knows he�s let you, your son, and HIMSELF down. Think trashing your integrity by becoming an adultress would solve your problem? How about having your son learn about it some day, as he most assuredly would?


Why he chose you over her? So basic that I doubt he could put it into words if you asked him.

He knew her in high school, yet he didn't marry her. He chose to take vows with you; he promised her nothing. He owes her nothing. You have five years of married history together�and a son. He has nothing to bind his heart to OW. Those are pretty compelling reasons, don�t you think?

OK, you ask, then why did he have an affair with her? THAT is the important question. It wasn�t HER. It wasn�t ABOUT her. It was about HIM, his poor boundaries, and his poor problem solving skills. HE was �feeling lonely.� He didn�t know how to broach the subject with you. (My FWH didn�t either, nor did most others who find themselves here. And they all made exactly the same mistake your FWH did.)

She happened to be in the right place, at the right time, to distract him from his negative feelings and what wasn�t going right in your marriage.

She could have been ANYONE. You said you knew things weren�t right. He knew it too, but maybe he didn�t have the relationship skills you do. Not uncommon. So he took the �easy� way out, not thinking about the consequences. Bad move, as he now understands. Can you imagine how it must feel to be him, knowing what a hurtful, stupid thing he did? A horror he can never undo? Remember the effect it had on him when he saw your packed bag? Moment of truth for him. Turned him right around. He doesn�t even miss her, that�s how important she was to him.

So, he chose you because you were the better choice. The only choice, once he pulled his head out of his lower orifice and thought about it. He didn�t want to lose YOU. He cannot replace YOU. And he doesn�t want to. That�s the reason he is being so cooperative. His head cleared really quickly, because for him, the choice was easy. Wish that had been the case for me, and for so many BS�s here who struggled through months of their WS �making up their mind.� He WANTS to fall in love with you all over again--right NOW. Don't blow it by nursing anger.


I think that post-nup door should swing both ways. Same provisions apply if EITHER of you has an A. Sounds like that�s an EP you both need right now.

i understand your concern....my WH also was very "agreeable".....it turned out that these were things on his "checklist" to mark off to convince me/himself he was done with his affairs and seemed like he wanted to reconcile....it was more of a "to- do list" than anything....he thruout all this process, was still holding on to gifts from his OW...he himself bought a gift for a woman, even though he insisted nothing was going on....and omitted email addresses and passwords from me....still behaving secretively....so on the surface...he convinced everyone around him that he was working on reconciling....

Hi elsied. Welcome to Marriage Builders.

It would be great for you to start your own thread so we can answer questions you may have or help you out.