Maybe I am not in the right forum but I have a problem.

I have a much higher SF need then DH does. He has been tested for testerone etc. He is also on AD's. He has been depressed for several years due to the emotional abuse of his mother, who died recently. He has never intiated SF. He is not gay. He just has a low sex drive. He also doesn't lead in the bedroom. I have tried everything I can think of to work on this. It's come to the point of me making him happy and then me being left out so often. I have no desire.

I finally had a lot of AO, until I figured out he just can't lead. The bottomline is we had a discussion. He loves everything I do for him. However he doesn't feel he can change. He suggested I go outside our marriage for SF,

He feels that this is his fault and he doesn't want me to live like this forever. I know this sounds crazy, but he has never been a jealous person.

We have gone to MC. He will never do the work and nothing get's done unless I nag him. Which I refuse to do. He needs to do some stuff for his mothers estate and I refuse to nag him about that as well.

I am pretty much at my wits end. I told him SF for me is emotional and he is risking a lot if I were to follow through on his wishes. Needless to say things aren't happy. Okay, here is the part that isn't to good. I decided to see what he would do if this came to fruition. I started flirting with someone never making it sexual. We started testing and emailing. I make my husband read everything. He is now is being more affectionate for me. This makes me angry that he reads me flirting and then he wants me to make him happy. I was honest with the guy, never lead him on and never promised him anything. I have no plans to follow through on going outside the marriage.

I have been lurking here for a while and I knew this was a crazy situation. I just have no clue what to do.

We have been married 15 years. We are 49 and 50. We have one DS 12.

No I am not a troll. He has told me in the past he has fantasties of catching me with someone else.

You've come to the wrong site if you expect anyone here to support your going outside your M for extra SF.

I am not asking for support to go outside my marrige I don't plan to go outside my marriage. My idiot husband wants me to go outside my marriage. He seems to get some sort of enjoyment out of it. I love my husband. I help in figuring out how to save our relationship. I lurked for a long time because frankly this is embrassing to me.
I flirted with someone strictly because i thought he would snap out of this. The flirting was chatting, no kissing just non sexual conversation.
I am at my wit's end.
I am willing to speak to someone in real life, so people realize i am not a nut.

Where do you go to get help for this? I have been doing lots of lovebank deposits. I asked him to do the emotional needs questionaires.

He doesn't want to meet your SF need the way you want him to, so he's taken to suggesting you get it met somewhere else.

That's NOT the same thing as his WANTING you to.

It sounds more like he wants you to quit bugging him about it.

You know what your right. The problem is mine. I am going make an appointment with an IC tomorrow. I truly have no clue where to turn and want my marriage. However, it appears I have posted some place that isn't prepared to help.

Sorry for the waste of your time.

Hey, don't go yet. I know you're at your wit's end, but please investigate the excellent resources on this site.

Don't start with the forums just yet. Read the articles linked to the home page here, and once you've got a handle on the basic concepts, please consider calling the Marriage Builder's coaching center. For $195, you'll get practical advice you can use, no deep heavy psychological stuff...and possibly some good info to take with you to your IC.

What have you got to lose?

Regarding, I can feel for your situation, because I am also the HD spouse. It stinks, it hurts, and it's so oversimplified by the rest of the world it makes me want to scream.

BUT, flirting with, texting, or seeing OM is not the answer. It doesn't matter what your H says. It just makes everything worse.

I would try to talk to one of the Harley's, and I would read everything I can on this site, doing your best to work the entire program. I would commit to doing this for one year. here is why: Apparently, in the vast majority of cases, if MB is truly implemented by both parties, the SF need (which is just as legitimate and important as every other need) takes care of itself. So your problem may very well be solved. And if not....after a year of truly doing your best to build your M, you will have a better idea of what to do, and if you cannot continue being starved of your highest EN, you can take whatever steps you may need to take with a clear conscience.

And though you do have a problem....saying the problem is all yours isn't accurate. I don't care how much you have flirted. I don't care if you have had some AO's. There is nothing wrong with actually wanting SF with the person you committed your life and heart to. So yeah, your DH shares some of this problem too....because quite frankly, no one should HAVE to bug their spouse for SF. Otherwise....I would think that someone who doesn't want SF should probably, I don't know, stay single!

Hello RL, I do feel sorry for you. It's a difficult issue. My opinion is that you should not look outside the marriage for SF or any other major EN until you have decided definitively that you cannot find it within the marriage and need to end the M. (Actually, statistically speaking, your chances of finding satisfying SF as a single woman are not great either...)
Next I think you should seriously consider masturbation as a viable temporary alternative. There are great sex toys that might help. To make an analogy, it's a bit like having a snack to keep you from being too hungry while I understand completely what you really want is a proper 3-course dinner.
The next step should be to work towards agreement with your H that making efforts to satisfy each others needs is a priority for you both.
Then I would apply the MB principles in all area of your marriage including the time (15 hours recommended) allocated to 'alone time'.
Rather than remaining on a theoretical level try to be practical too. Make a concrete agreement each week of what you can best do for each other that week to make each other happy. Start with modest, achievable goals e.g. one oral sex session for you versus 3 homecooked meals for him or whatever floats your boats.
Finally, I think you should schedule sex on specific nights for example every Friday night. I know this might not sound too romantic but it does have the advantage of preparing you both for it. He can get the sleep he needs on other nights psych himself up. He won't feel 'pounced on' on other nights and you won't feel the sting of rejection if you initiate and the desire is not reciprocated.
I think lurioosi's suggestion of giving it a year of really trying is a good one although I wouldn't tell him that. It might not help if he feels he's against the clock.
Don't know if any of this helps but wanting SF is a very valid claim especially as it is one EN that you cannot get satisfied outside the M.
Good luck
Tully

tully,

You need to give us an update. You have many supporters here who would love to hear from you!

Thank you, for your replies. I don't bug my husband and i will not go to Plan D ever. Basically, what I told him is I will have SF whenever you want. However, I will take care of myself from now on. Your right it sucks to be the HD. I big texting/chatting flirting thing was over a period of 48 hrs and I ended it. The reason I ended it, is my husband loved it. I truly thought he would get jealous.

I have ordered the HN/HN book. Thank you again! I truly have no one I could talk to about this.

Well, in my opinion, this isn't the way to go about it. I'm not saying that I am right but this is the way I see it. I think that this puts you into a position of 'begging for anything' and him into a position of 'not giving enough' and I don't think this is comfortable for either of you.
That's why I think you should schedule sex at a level both of you can handle. For example the first Friday of the month, every Tuesday morning (sometimes morning sex is easier for some men) or whatever. That way there is an objective measure and it's possible for him to feel generous and you to feel grateful whereas with your initial proposal, no matter how much sex you have there may be a sense of it being 'never enough'.
And by the way, if your husband liked the texting/chatting/ flirting maybe you could role-play that a little bit and pretend to be dating him by sending him flirty texts during the day leading up to the 'chosen time' and maybe afterwards. Just an idea.

(Sugar, I see you have pulled up an old thread by me. I'll update it for sure. Thanks.)

i think lurioosi2 has some good suggestions this is an unusual problem and the Harley's here on this site might be better equipped to help you through this....every problem has a solution and I think it's great that you just don't throw in the towel and give up, you love your husband and want your marriage to work......
this is a good place to come for support on how to save your marriage.....read, learn and hopefully he will change how he sees things and make more of an effort for you......good luck

RL, when was your sex life the best? Can you give me a brief background?

luroosi is right, if the relationship is fixed, the sex problem usually goes away.

tully, the reason masturbation and/or porn is not recommended is because it takes sex out of the marriage, which is harmful to the marriage. It can also have a contrast effect which makes it all that much harder to develop a healthy sex life.

The solution is to focus inside the marriage and develop a sexually fulfilling relationship inside the marriage.

To RL, I think the solution for you would be for you and your H to resolve his depression problem and create a romantic relationship. Once the depression is resolved you can use this program to create a romantic relationship. It is different from other programs in that it is behaviorally based, not feeling based.

Glad you finally posted. Welcome to Marriage Builders.

How to Meet the Emotional Need for
Sexual Fulfillment (Part 2)

Letter #1

Dear Dr. Harley,
I understand that men are the ones that usually want sex all the time. But what happens if I'm the one that wants it and my husband does not. I feel rejected and he's fine without it. There are times I just can't stand it because I want sex every day. But he's too tired, he tells me. When we have sex, there's fireworks, but why doesn't he want it more often? He is affectionate, we hold hands and kiss even after 2 children and 5 years of marriage. He calls me at work to tell me he loves me and I do the same. I just don't understand what the problem could be. I feel like having an affair, but I wouldn't want to disappoint God. Do you have any answers?
Frustrated
Texas


Dear Frustrated,
There are many women who have a greater desire for sex than their husbands. One of my clients wanted her husband to make love to her 3 times every day before she was satisfied. She would keep him awake at night until their third time. Other female clients have wanted to make love for hours or even days at a time. One female client wanted to make love to her husband all weekend, every weekend.
A woman's capacity to enjoy sex is far greater than a man's. While men are usually more aggressive about sex, they usually do not want it as often as women who have learned to enjoy it. When a man makes love, his sex drive usually declines immediately afterward, sometimes for a week or more. But when a woman makes love, it can actually increase her sexual interest.

But sex drive alone is not usually what motivates these women--it is their desire to be loved and accepted. Sex makes them feel desirable, and more secure in their relationship. Some of these women have tried to find men outside their marriage who would satisfy their sexual need. But in each case, there were disastrous consequences. Sex wasn't what they really needed--it was only the feeling of being loved that would satisfy them.

From the sound of your letter, you and your husband have a loving and affectionate relationship. He is undoubtedly interested in you sexually, but does not equate sex with being accepted. So for him, his sex drive is all that motivates him to make love, and that happens, for most men, about two or three times a week. In his case, it may be even less often.

One solution to your problem is to make love once a day, at a time that he has the most energy, say in the morning. Another, is to compromise: If he makes love to you every other day, he can pick the time and place, but if two days goes by without sex, at 7:30 the next morning you've got an appointment!

I think it is your need for approval and acceptance that compels you to make love as often as you can. Another important factor is that, unlike half of the married women, you have learned to enjoy sex, which makes each experience a great and inexpensive form of recreation. Don't feel that your sexual interest should be reduced, or that you should let your husband off the hook. Work out a compromise with him that gives you the sex you want in a form he enjoys. Sex is a great way to keep a marriage passionate and fun.
here

Another really good article about a husband with low sex drive: Internet Marriage

"He has told me in the past he has fantasties of catching me with someone else"

It sounds like he is hoping to find a way to justify ending the marriage by this statement. Perhaps in his mind adultery is the only "legit reason" one can D and so he sees himself stuck in this situation.

Also for him to get excited about you texting another man/flirting and encourage it.....makes me think if I am wrong about my above statement that he perhaps deep down somewhere is hiding another secret....maybe he wants to have 3some's....which in your case would mean bringing in another man for SF...which makes me think he may have same sex attraction issues at the core of this....hence the "excited" reaction to you flirting with other men.

His need to be on antidepressants is also a issue....these meds can cause low desire.

When did all this sexual disinterest happen in your marriage? from the very beginning?

I could be totally wrong on all that I have posted....I am just sharing what my impression is of what your H's words are and his reactions and suggestions for you to step outside of the marriage....I think of it as him wanting you to sabatoge your marriage...then he can justify divorce...or the 3some situation.

I think that applying MB principles to your M with abondon, calling the Harley's, and trying to get your H on board in a low pressure way are excellent plans of action. And they are practical, tangible, ways to build your marriage.

Here is the caveat: If you start this today, your DH is probably not going to jump you tomorrow...or the next day...or even next week. For example, not to be too personal, I have not had SF since April. Most people would not suggest not talking for three months, not cleaning the house for three months, not earning a living for three months. So....I have a toy. DH knows, he is highly welcome to join me. I flirt with him, I am available to him. But I do not and will not apologize for keeping myself from climbing the walls. I focus on sensation, or I remember and think about wonderful times with DH. I never leave him our of my sex life -- he chooses to stay out.

My problem is NOT that I want SF three times a day...I'd like to have it more than three times a year. I don't want it for hours every weekend...I'd like an hour a month! So yeah, that's a little different.

So implement MB. Meet his EN's, avoid, LB's, and spend UA time with him. Be radically honest in a loving way. And be absolutely faithful to him. And do not take the full weight of this problem on yourself. Again, wanting to be physically intimate with your spouse is the way it is supposed to be.

A couple years ago sapph and i made a goal to have SF every day for 150 days. Just to see if we could. I don't want to rub it in but SF to us is easy, because it is part of our bedtime routine. I think a routine would be good for you.

I think your H does not abhorre SF, but he just doesn't care for his SF, it's not one of his needs. I would suggest fulfilling his other EN's and have him help you fulfill your SF EN. He soesn't need SF to fulfill your SF. Don't worry about him, but let him help you get your SF. Your needs are not his needs and spending all your time and energy trying to give him SF and leaving you unfulfilled is not cool.

Her husband should go to a doctor and see if the AD are causing the low sex drive.

and I agree, I've read a number of varying threads of this nature where the phrase..."he/she is depressed and is on medication"...and rarely does anyone comment on this.

granted depression can be situational...make the situation better, by improving the marriage and the spouse can come off the meds and quality of life can change...in other instances, the depression can be clinical and a true chemical imbalance is accruing...think "Bipolar"...in which case the symptoms are treated with meds, just as diabetes are treated...

if that's the case, there are meds that can probably counter his low sex drive...so the two of you should discuss this issue among yourselves and both you guys should consult his doctor...

and speaking of doctor...your hubby should be seeing a psychiatrists concerning his meds and not a family doctor...if not, he should switch to one...doing so the psychiatrists will be able to over time determine if his depression is clinical or situational...IF his depression IS truly clinical, then his meds should be working to improve his quality of life...if not...it's situational depression...

Sorry to be a bit graphic but I want to make sure I understand what you posted correctly.
Do you mean any affection, petting intercourse? Has this been going on for your entire Marriage?

Has this been an issue through your entire relationship or just in the past few years?
So you do gratify him and he enjoys it but does not reciprocate?

When we were first married, we quickly realized that our Sex drives were different. Of course that was probably the best time of our sex life. Over the years, DH got caught up doing things on the computer and I can see his computer screen so I know what he is doing. He is in all these forums about computer stuff.

I would dress in lingerie and call him, we would do SF. This was once in awhile. Soon I would tell him I was going to bed for sleep and he would stay up longer. Sometimes I would wear lingerie and call him, he wouldn't even look or say give me 5.
Then I would fall asleep waiting. He would be remorseful and I gave up on this.

He has been to a psychiatrist for his meds. I called today and made a joint appointment for us. Sorry this screen is jumping.

Has this been an issue through your entire relationship or just in the past few years? The main issue of SF, has been the last few years. However, I realized we had a pattern of me having to basically ask DH if he would like this or that. Then he started talking about catching me with a woman a few years ago. I basically told him he was on crack about that one. It is basically like that wants me to say would you like this to happen and then we are busy. I change things up all the time. I am the person who decides what we will do, physically, he doesn't want to be in charge.

So you do gratify him and he enjoys it but does not reciprocate.
He does a set number of physcal things to me in a set way. I no longer respond physically. I have told him this and asked him to help me out.

Finally about 3 months ago, I told him " I enjoy watching you and feeling you be fulfilled" You won't attempt to try anything different for me. We are so set on you being out of your head. That I no longer can get out of mine. He feels he is submissive and can't lead. He feels bad. I said fine, any time you want to play or cuddle I am here. I will take care of my own needs.
He came to me and said that he has no objections and thinks I should go outside the marriage for SF. I told him I couldn't do things like that without feelings. He said he understood and basically if I wanted to try polyamory, then go for it.

I did flirt. I did end it. I ended up really angry at him, that he was reading my pretty innocent flirting and starting to be affectionate to me. I mean what was I chopped liver before.

No he doesn't want a divcore. He literally does everything possible to make me happy. I am the center of his world. No he isn't gay. He is just very submissive in the bedroom. He has a low low sex drive.

no I am not leaving him. I will never leave my husband, I am committed to him. We do over 15 hours of UA. I told him about set sex nights. After me being up all night with our injured child, I told him I finally posted here. We went through a timeline of how we saw our sexual fulfillment going through the years.

He apolgized to me for making me feel like a prostitute. His verbage not mine, by reading my chats and getting aroused and out of the blue touching me in intimate ways in front of our child. He was aroused.

I don't think it is sexual deviance, I think he just has some fantasties that aren't the norm. He has flat out told me he would enjoy a threesome for us, with another woman. I said never gonna happen.

I talked to him at noon today and he told me that he realized that he had let me down. He told me he was sad I never dressed up for him in lingerie anymore. I told him I had given up years ago. He says he sees what he is missing. He still says he can't take the lead in the bedroom. I understand what your saying ML about masterbation not helping the marriage. However, I could be waiting 9 months for SF if I left it to him

I have been calling and sending silly texts. Complementing him on how he looks. He likes being taken care by me cooking and having things ready when he comes home. I have been plan Aing my bottom off.

So here I am........ I will talk to him later about calling Harley's. Once again thank you for your support.

Are you SURE your H is not doing porn?

When we first met he had been a widower for 5 years. He married early and she died. He did have a collection of about 5 movies.
He also got two magazines. When our child was born, we threw them out as our neighbors kids found her POSWH's stash. We both agreeed we didn't want that for our child.

Also, he never hides his computer screen. We have side by side desks and he will show me anything I want. He did have a facebook account for sometime. I had a fit with him over getting invites from h.s. girlfriends and accepting them. I made him delete it. I explained how it took time away from us and he agreeed. I suggested a few months ago, he reactivate as our family has been on there. I have the password and I can look.

If he is buying porn, I have no clue how. His paycheck is direct deposit and I handle all the bills. I look at transactions and he rarely takes more then 20 dollars in two weeks. He uses debit for everything. The place he use to buy his two magazines isn't on there.

So no porn, no gay.

RL, I suspect the main problem is that you have both fallen out of love if your sex was good in the beginning. That is where I would start. [in addition to checking into the AD's]


http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5013_qa.html

Glad you are calling the Harleys!

Sex was good in the beginning because it was NEW LOVe, however we are still in love with each other. We did go to MC thrusday night. We discussed the situation. The Dr told my husband he was an idiot for suggesting for me to go outside the marriage.
He said we had to stop it before it started. Hey, I thought he was nuts as well. He told my husband that marriage isn't one sided and that every thing was a choice, even inaction. He really gave my DH hell. His testerone level is normal. My DH confirmed to the doctor and myself I am the only person for him.
He says he thinks talking about sex has increased his needs.

I did admit that I felt there were things I could improve in other things other then sexual. So we are suppose to be calling this other MC. We saw the psychriatrist for the initial MC. Quickest I could get and we know him well.

He says he will continue therapy and that he is committed to our marriage. He asked me to forgive him.

On the way home I told him I had ordered the his needs/ her needs books and I wanted to know if he would book with the harley's. Husband agreeed. We have kindle and downloaded it and have both started it. I had to wait for a check to come in before booking Harley's I just neeed to see if I have enough left for the package.

Thank you everyone for the patience you have shown. I will keep you updated.

It is that "NEW LOVE", ie: romantic, passionate love, that we are talking about here. You didn't feel that way because it was "new" but because you were both doing a great job of meeting each others needs. Get that back and the problem will be resolved, RL. That is what this program does.