I am brand new here. Just found the site this week. I am totally in awe.

Me BS:32 WW:32 married almost 8 yrs together more than 13, 2 kids. For several yrs I have worked days, she nights, we rarely have had any alone time. She has gone out drinking with friends 5-6 nights a week also. I don't know why this is so surprising to me.

In March she told me she is unhappy and has been for some time (looking back yes she has indicated this repeatedly). I am a recovering addict/alcoholic, sober since that discussion. I am in AA and have a sponsor and am doing very well in my recovery, surprising even myself at not relapsing during this hell.

We started seeing a counselor. She kept talking about a separation. I was opposed. Then I stupidly agreed to move out in June. I came home last weekend, realizing my mistake. Now home, we talk a lot but only agree that I am willing to work on our relationship and she is not. She says she wants to leave. She is done trying, wants her freedom, wants to be happy. This morning I read her diary and confirmed that she has been having an A since March. I am ashamed for reading it.

Her phone never leaves her hand, her computer passwords have all changed. I want to work towards confronting her but am honestly lost. We have a date scheduled for tomorrow night. This my hardest day, so far. I really need some assistance as to how to stay strong and guiding us back on track with her unwillingness to work on a plan with me. This site is amazing and helpful. I'll keep reading these boards.

SO, do you know who the affair is with? Is he married?

This is a big part of the problem: her lifestyle is as destructive to your marriage as your drinking and long shifts are.

I do not know who OM is, only his name, but do not believe he is married

I would find out his name, marital status and occupation. Once you get that, come back here and we will help you with next steps. Don't ask her about it, but do some quiet snooping and get as much evidence as you can.

Can you figure out her email password?

ALSO do you have access to any of the recent phone bills? Can you log onto the online acct? Most likely you will be able to get info on who OM is by the phone #. You can do a reverse lookup and if that doesn't pan out, you could also pay intelius.com for a report (about $15 when I did it a couple yrs ago)...

Put a GPS on her car.

Virtually follow her.

And, click on the link in my sig line.

Welcome to MB

Thank you so much. This is hard going but I am willing to do the work.

Welcome to MBs. Sorry you are here under these circumstances.

Nesre.

Date night went swell, thank you. OK, I now have his name, number and address. He is single. How do I find out about his occupation?
Just the other night my wife called to say she was sleeping over at a girlfriends house. I said "you could be anywhere right now! how would I ever know the truth?" She promptly returned home and said I had spoiled her fun. When asked about another man she said she never wanted to share with me that she has fantasies about other people, how they might love her, how they might have treated her and denied seeing anyone specific. I didn't bother to tell her that I have the phone records and she talks to him every other day or so. I also asked to look at her cell phone. She said that it was a huge invasion of privacy but had nothing to hide from me. Well it was all cleaned out: no text messages, no call history. I told her it was pretty fishy to be so clean especially with her being so technologically ignorant. She just stared blankly back at me and said I can't believe your even looking at it.
Her journal is something she cherishes. If I told her I read it(that's where I learned about the sex) she would never speak to me again. I have spoken with my parents and hers about it though. I feel like confronting the OM but can't see myself doing so without emotion (let alone getting violent). I don't plan on ever speaking with him.
Looks like the law in our state makes adultery (for a wife) a gross misdemeanor and carries a prison sentence of one year, plus a possible fine of up to $3,000. I don't believe it is enforced, however. Plus if I had her charged she'd never want to reconcile.
I will keep up my Plan A and remain strong for myself and kids.

Most of your assumptions about if I do "X" she will do "Y" are wrong.

You need to make sure everyone she knows hears the "good news" about her affair. When everyone knows it's not quite as much fun for them. If you have evidence as you seem to, you should expose her to anyone and everyone who can influence her. You should also confront her about what you know - don't argue about the source of the information.

Thank you for your solid advice. I am still absorbing this entire site. Currently reading "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" and in Plan A. She says I seem like I am acting. I know I am, I am sober and have a new outlook on life. My priorities are now in order and I am working on a new healthy lifestyle, whether she cares or not.

Listen, my WW said the same thing, and just railed on me for "invading her privacy" by reading her journal. Guess what? We're still together. It was just a ploy to keep me from getting information. Which is worse? Reading a journal or committing adultery?

You NEED to confront OM and make his life he11 as long as he pursues your WW. He needs to feel consequences for his actions, or he will have no reason to stop banging your WW. Likely, he's a predator that targets married women because they are easy marks. If you apply pressure (confront him with a friend so you don't lose control, expose to his family, friends, coworkers, etc.) and just generally make his life hell until he leaves your WW alone, you can probably chase him away. Quit being so passive. Inaction will cost you your family. Now is the time to take a stand and fight.

What state do you live in? Is there Alienation of Affection on the books? You could sue OM for continuing to contact your WW. That should chase him away. Make a copy of your WW's journal for proof. You have all the proof you need. Now is the time to start using the STICK of plan A. Plan A is not just being a doormat, it is making consequences for your WW's behavior. You should tell her you know and that she needs to stop. If she doesn't (and don't warn her what you are going to do or your sources), then you need to expose to her family and friends. How old are your children? If they are over the age of 7, Dr. Harley recommends telling them as well.

It is time to sack up, be a man, and start confronting this adultery head-on. You seem to have a good grasp of the CARROT of plan A, but you need to now employ the STICK as well. If you WW has no reason to stop her behavior (no you being nice and asking her to stop is not a compelling reason), she won't. Do you understand?

Expose the affair that is your best bet on saving your marriage, affairs thrive on secrecy so the longer your keep it in, the longer the affair will be.

Expose to
family
friends
co-workers
OM
OM's Friends and family
Church friends
Neighbors
etc.

Exposing will lift the fantasy and kill the affair.

What happened when you exposed to the parents? I hope you didn't tell them to keep it quiet because part of exposure is to ask others who have influence to confront WW about her affair. But you can't trickle exposure, it needs to be done in one fell swoop to get the maximum effect.

Do you know if she works with OM? If she does, then exposing to her workplace is not only necessary, but critical!

What kinds of things are you doing in your Plan A? Carrot and stick examples please.

I did not have to deal with the exposure part of the affair and I question whether or not I would have the strength to do so if I needed to but, but I can say these people here have given me encouragement to do create my plan of action. I also know I am new her but it has been said over and over again as I read. Marriage can not survive dishonesty. If you have the evidence then it must be time to pull the trigger and confront. It will not be easy but nothing worth fighting for ever is. If we all wanted the easy way out we would not be here and we would be the WS not our spouses. Ask yourself is she worth the pain? Is she worth the suffering? I believe she must be or you would not be here. but those are just my thoughts.

Okay, I am back after a much needed vacation last week. I exposed the affair to her family and friends last Monday Aug 9th. I told her everything I knew, she tried to deny. Thank you jmcw95 for pointing out to me the simple logic behind which is worse: reading her journal or having an affair. Well after she admitted it we have talked a lot. The following day when I told her that I had informed her family and friends (her friends I cannot speak highly of) she was extremely upset. She tells me everyday that she is mad at me and can't believe I could do such a thing. I told her that I am not sorry for telling people the truth and learned from them the lies she has been telling. Also her friends already knew and got defensive for her.

Two days ago she said she is willing to cut her lover out of her life and work with me on our relationship. Then last night she said that she is unwilling to try to reconcile with me and wants to leave, the love is gone, she is not committed...blah blah blah. I am still doing my best everyday at cleaning up the house everyday, grocery shopping, complimenting her hair, clothes, style, taking initiative with the kids, being reasonable and calm in all conversations with her, and generally being positive and happy.

She wants to leave but doesn't want to write out any guidelines as far as timeline, child care, what the goal of the separation is(all I hear is she wants space, freedom, happiness). She wants to move into our first home which we have had rented out the last 5 yrs. I want to rent it out again immediately to an interested family but she tells me to cancel those plans. We cannot afford both house payments and I see no point in us both having a home to pay for and maintain. I told her to find her own place to go, her parents and a good friend have offered her to move in with them.

I am flustered at the moment but overall I feel great about all that I am doing, mainly practicing my patience, being positive and being the best spouse I can for whoever it is my spouse will be in the future.

Let her find her own place, don't let her move into your other home.

Don't pay for anything! Separate your accounts so she can't use your money.

How long have you been in plan A? You might be able to get into plan B if she does decide to move out.

"S O" you are doing fantastic! As SR states, don't finance the affair. Make her accountable. Just lurking and reading my man. Sober since May 5, 1985. AA is the greatest. Later

Tonight she comes home from work and says she wants a divorce. I didn't know what to say. She said she would be going to sleep in the den. I just said goodnight. I just feel numb. What to do now...talk about confused, frustrated, and upset.

I am so sorry sober, just let her sleep where ever she feels she wants to sleep, if she wants the divorce let HER do it. Have you thought about going to plan B when she moves out?

If so then I suggest you start writing your plan B letter, there are a couple of samples here on this site.

Good luck!

She came and found me at work today and was crying while asking if I am willing to see a counselor. Of course I am! She says she cares about ne and just doesn't trust me or think I am listening to her. She says I take her words and twist them around to manipulate her.
I'm trying to locate the sample plan b letters now.

There a couple of good plan B letters on this site, let me know if you found one, or if you need help.

Can't seem to locate sample plan b letters. Are they here in the forums. The search results are long lists of posts, can't seem to sift through them to find examples.
I got home from work tonight and she had dinner ready(first time since I've been home, home 3 weeks now). After dinner she said she wanted to go to &we girlfriends place. I said a family bikeride would be fun. She had already taken them on a bikeride today. She either wanted to go to her friends or talk with me. I said I would.play with the kids and put them to bed, she could go visit her friend. She came home and went to go sleep in the den again. She was going to move to the other house this weekend but hasn't talked with me anymore about it. She agreed to attend church in the morning. Thank you all for your help and for reading my words.

Here is a sample one I got off from newpetals thread.

Dearest WW,

I am so sorry our marriage has come to this. I recognize my part in our relationship that created an environment where you became vulnerable to another man's attentions.

I have learned from my mistakes, and am constantly working to find better ways to resolve conflict. I want to create a new life for both of us that meets both our needs and creates a loving home for our children. But we cannot do that until you end all contact with OM once and for all, and commit to having him out of our lives completely.

Until then, I hope you will understand when I say that I cannot see you or talk to you anymore. IM has agreed to be our intermediary, and she will help in making it easy for you to see your children, as we discussed. Our only contact should be in the case of emergency about the children.

Please understand my decision to separate from you this way. It is too painful for me to live with you any longer as long as you are also with him and do not want to have a marriage with me. I love you very much, and I ask that until you are ready to end your affair with OM and focus on our marriage and family, you leave our home.

The way back home is simple: end all contact; be completely transparent with me with your phone, emails, and time; and, commit to rebuilding our marriage.

I look forward to the day when we can begin to rebuild our family and begin the rest of our lives together as a family. I want nothing more than to be your partner through life, and your best friend and confidante in all matters - you have always been mine. We can have a stronger marriage built on trust, love, honesty, and teamwork.

I loved you from the day I met you and I continue to love you right up to this moment. I hope for and look forward to a time when we can begin a new marriage with each other.

Love,

Holy moly, this is wonderful! Thank you so much. I will use this immediately.

NP! Let me know how it all works out for you? good luck!

Moving out is, according to Dr. Harley, standard operating procedure for every wayward. Remember always -- to yourself -- that the purpose of separation, from the wayward's perspective, is about SPENDING MORE TIME WITH THE LOVER WITHOUT GUILT.

That's it. "Freedom", "space", "sort things out"... these are codewords for "Be with my lover without thinking about how much I'm hurting you."

She's addicted right now. She claims to want to separate from the lover, but every time she gets her "fix", she wants to be with him more than you. That's why there's a roller-coaster. The longer the intervals between contact between the lovers, the more things settle down before they get crazy again.

Going bat-$%!% crazy on you for exposing the affair is par for the course. Every wayward claims that what you did makes them hate you, and usually they claim to want a divorce.

THERE IS NOTHING UNIQUE ABOUT YOUR WAYWARD WIFE'S BEHAVIOR. SHE IS FOLLOWING THE SCRIPT TO THE LETTER.

Once the lover is forced to meet ALL of your wayward wife's emotional needs -- because if you have a good Plan B, you're not meeting any of them, especially financial support! -- the affair usually falls apart within two years. Some few "affairages" survive, like my mother's, but they are the exception and not the rule.

Just make sure you are completely ready for Plan B. Once you give the letter, you need to stay DARK.

Do you have an IM? Does the IM know what to do? (We have a thread here to help them)

Do you have an air-tight plan to prevent contact??

Waywards HATE Plan B, love drama and will try very hard to break through...prolonging the end of the A...

I do not have am IM as of yet. I am trying to read up on that to find out who may be a good fit. My ww scheduled a counselling session for tomorrow morning. I really was hoping to be the one to schedule it with a pro marriage type therapist. She says she told them she no longer wants to be married, I do, I am a newly recovering alcoholic and she has had an affair and we just need someone to guide us through a civil conversation. I really want to believe that. I also need some guidance on how to talk during the session.

What is preventing you from calling ahead and finding out if this is a pro-marriage counselor? Then if you find out or they won't commit to telling you what you need to hear, then what is stopping you from just flat out refusing to go? There is no law that says you MUST go just because your WW says so.

In the meantime, get your Plan B in order (while still behaving in a Plan A way).

I forgot have you found out exactly who the OM is yet or if he is married/separated? Don't trust your WW to give you accurate information about that. Waywards LIE, LIE, LIE. Once you get that information you need to finish up your exposure by contacting people on OM's side of the fence (wife, job, family, etc.) Is OM on Facebook? There's a great template around here for exposing on Facebook. Start by getting a list of his "friends". Store that information somewhere because you'll use it later to expose and you don't want to lose it if OM blocks you once you start exposing.

Don't give in to your WW's demands. She is NOT your wife. Picture her as an alien right now. That's what she is.

From what I've found OM is single, never married, no kids. She met him at a bar. I can't seem to find out about his family or workplace. He is on Facebook and I will get all of his contacts stored ASAP. As far as exposure- my family, friends, ww's family and friends all know because of my telling them. Ww claims her coworkers know. She told me to stop calling them because I'm harassing them (ive made one phone call to one coworkers, 2 weeks ago now).
I really needed to hear the part about ww being an alien. She is, I just miss my wife. I guess I'll be missing her for a while.

SO

First time posting to you - read the thread quickly - am I missing something? Why is there talk of Plan B this soon in the game? Better read up on it in the website - this is a marathon and not a sprint. There are no magic bullets. Going to Plan B without prep and too soon is the first step towards divorce.


Keep the Plan A going as long as possible meeting her needs without expecting any in return. For up to six months if possible. She will be engorging on the needs being met from all sides, so when you go dark - absolute darkness - even during children exchanges there cannot be any contact. The shock of her needs not being by you will send a msg. Here's the deal - Plan B can take as long as 2 yrs. Most affairs dont last much longer than that.

If she is moving out on her own and leaving primary custody to you - you are in better shape - Do not move to Plan B until at least 2 wks after the move. Why ? Well the excitement and newness of having her freedom, her own place and new boyfriend visiting will make the contrast of Plan A to Plan B moot. Its better to wait after the newness wears off to pull the trigger. Sitting in a house without family and with the family dark = will put more contrast.

Just before Plan B - your Plan A will have to be the best. A weekend trip with kids or a date night with a full courtship press and then the next day - Plan B letter. You have to put some frosty on your cake before stepping away from the table of your cake eating princess. Make sense?

Now lets see - it looks like your exposure may have done some work and you are getting some positive response - why dont you play this up a bit and use the stick and carrot for as long as possible. Once you go Plan B - its a one way ticket with the outcome not so certain.

Want to mention that in some (perhaps more) cases with BH/WW scenario, you are playing with a wife that checked out way before the PA. WW are usually move to sex after the emotional attachment whereas WH in general work the other way. This is what makes the BH/WW situation difficult - as far as she is concerned there is no marriage and so on DDay - you are already behind the 8 ball. Read up on the Walk Away Wife Syndrome on the website to fully understand your challenge.

Best advice is to make sure you are the best parent and father possible to your kids = this will be a majour upheaval and stress in the coming weeks or months.

Give up more information on the current situation at home so the vets here can best advise you. Each interaction with her is an opportunity. Does she still continue to go see the OM on her free time? What is her family attitude to this ordeal?

If in doubt or your confidence in your plan is low - give Harley's a shout for some coaching - counseling is waste in some cases bc they deal from the perspective of feelings of today and not on behaviors that brought you both in there the first place. Harley's approach is more coaching and giving you tips to talk to her and to break down her wall. Your wife is checked out and has built a wall to keep you from her meeting ENs.

Remember and you seem to know it - it took both of you to get at this point in your marriage but she owns the affair.

One the problems that occurred in the marriage is a lack of undivided attention and recreational companionship with work hours not meshing. What are you doing to correct that dynamic?

Quietly find out what needs the OM is meeting. Conversation, affection and perhaps admiration - these needs will get in a women's heart quickly and move the affair to a sexual state. Even if SF is low on her EN list - its basically a reward to her affair partner for being there when you were not. This is the competition and its a tough road.

Good luck and study up with all the free information provided on this website. Fantastic resource/

The talk of Plan B has come up because we own two homes, one was a rental property for the last five years(this was our first home), the other is our current residence which has been on the market since April. Our plan for the past couple of years has been to sell this place and move back to the first house. My WW keeps talking about moving into that home with the kids and I stay here, I keep telling her that is not an option. I want our family to move to that house and WW says one of us should each have a house. I think I should rent that place out again, we can't afford both payments and all the upkeep on two homes! I am so flustered about this.

I do not believe she is meeting up with OM, who knows she might be gaslighting me. She probably talks with him though. She knows I check the cell phone records and now uses other phones to keep in touch. She also knows I check the computer. She did ask for my assistance in removing him from her contacts in email and facebook. I was unable to figure that out though, and she didn't like my perusing her other emails.

As far as her family, they are disgusted with her behavior. They all have said she has not been herself. She has been acting like a robot, no emotions, not normal behavior. Her sisters, aunt, and mother also say when they asked her about anyone else she lied right to their faces. Now they know the truth and are disgusted.

I am still lacking in giving her undivided attention and having any recreational activities with her. Our work schedules conflict and she can't stand to be near me, she won't even let me hug her or anything.

I am exhausted and just couldn't sleep so I wanted to reply to you rwinger. I need to read up on the walk away wife syndrome and then head to bed. Peace

DO

NOT

LIVE

SEPARATE

When she say's this, this means she wants to cheat on your with out the pain she is causing you!! Let her feel the guilt, she is only gas lighting you! You need to let her know that you need to check ALL her emails! I don't know how to to block someone off email (my husband did that for me) but I do know how to block them off FB. Just go to his profile and there is a button where you can "block this user"

Anyway, just remember don't move out!

He doesn't need to tell her that he is checking all her emails. He is in Plan A which involves snooping and not revealing the fact that he's snooping.

I agree with the advice not to move out though. It's hard to Plan A when you're separated.

We just had a long talk tonight. It sucks because she wants to separate. I refuse to move, she doesn't want to be away from the kids. I tell her she is a great mom and I don't want her away from the kids either. I reminded her that her parents have offered her a room and she says if I move there then the kids are coming with me and going to school out there. It's hard to talk about the kids because I want sole custody but don't want to threaten her.

I tell her that we need to rent out the other property ASAP and one of us can live in the basement here. She says it is too hard to be around me and she doesn't want to be mean to me in front of the kids. I tell her that's the best option I can think of without her moving out separately on her own.

We are going to talk more tomorrow night.

I do check all her email, facebook and phone records. I will remove OM from her accounts tomorrow night when she comes home from work.

So I am moving to our other home. She wants to but our babysitters are here, our daughters school is here, and this house payment is cheaper. I feel like a fool for moving out again when I am not the one seeking happiness, space, freedom or whatever. We are not getting along well at all living in the same house. I don't know what else to do.

Update: My wife moved out. I didn't! I ordered Surviving an Affair and we both read it. She said that she wasn't ready/willing to work on our marriage. She kept pressuring me to move out and I kept up with plan A. She insisted that we need a separation and got an apartment down the road. She moved yesterday. When I brought over some items and checked the place out she greeted me at the entrance crying and actually hugged me(her first display of physical touch since, well I don't know when.) She said she isn't going to be seeing OM and is excited about us and our relationship. What the hell does that mean. I am not putting too much stock in her words or enthusiasm. How can I? She has been so up & down and back & forth lately. She said that she is looking forward to dating me (and only me) she also apologized for adding financial and separation burdens to our relationship.
Do I need to fully enact Plan B?

GO DARK!! PLAN B

Okay, She calls me everyday to chat and/or tell me where to pick the kids up. We now have neighbors watching the kids because my wife's affair disturbed our regular sitter so much she can't trust my wife any more. I don't take her calls and try to just text message. When we do speak she is rude to me. I really believe she doesn't care about anyone anymore, especially herself. All the things she said to me the night she moved out(things like not seeing OM, or anyone else, excitement about "us", loving me always) was just a moment of sanity. She was just scared. I can't stand talking with her because she continues to use and abuse me.

I can't give up on us but she is making this so hard.

What plan are you in? Cause your not in plan B that's for sure.

SO I understand your situation, I just had a baby 19 days ago and I moved out and tried to plan B for the past 6 weeks or so. The ONLY reason it has failed so far, and this is being honest, is for the following reasons

1st I was not prepared BEFORE I went into plan B. I did not have a scheduale for the kids drop offs and pick ups (visitations and holidays and what nots)

2nd I was not strong and did not ignore all texts and phone calls letting my IM handle then like I should have.

I today corrected those issues. I sent an email via my IM for visitations, drop offs pick ups, holidays and all. WH has ignored my request to do so, so I did it instead.

I will no longer answer ANY of his calls or texts messages no matter how much of a fit he throws or says its for the kids that is what my IM is for. I did not do this WH did and my job is to protect myself and my kids from his ongoing affair. I have to remember WHY I am in a plan B. Thanks for helping me..

SO, I would strongly recommend going into Plan B. You are currently in Plan "C" [compromise] which is more likely to end up in divorce.

Do you know all about Plan B?

I'll be scheduling a call with the Harley's ASAP.

You all are so right I am reading up on Plan B and I need to fully implement it! I am in a compromise plan, which is of no use. Thanks to all.

Ask as many questions as you need to in order to understand it, SO. Most importantly, find a good, NEUTRAL intermediary who can remain neutral. Do you have someone in mind?

Please share this thread with your IM: Intermediary Training School