Marriage Builders®
Posted By: hubb1 Is it reconcileable? - 08/01/10 12:02 AM
I will never post on a forum again.
Posted By: Scotland Re: Is it reconcileable? - 08/01/10 12:58 AM
I am sorry. I don't have it in me to help an affairage survive. Good luck to you. Call the Harleys. They may be able to help you.
Posted By: believer Re: Is it reconcileable? - 08/01/10 02:47 AM
So now hubby has started an affair calculated for the purpose of ending another miserable marriage. And you are dating while married too???????

Affairs almost always end. But around 3% of them lead to marriage. Of those marriages, 75% end in divorce within 5 years.

You came here for help, so I would suggest you call the Harleys. They can do miracles.
Posted By: hubb1 Re: Is it reconcileable? - 08/01/10 02:47 AM
Sorry that my original post may have caused others pain.
Posted By: karmasrose Re: Is it reconcileable? - 08/01/10 02:55 AM
Vindictive?

We're not vindictive.

You had an affair and expect to be patted on the back for it. You're not going to be welcomed with open arms.

Even if your last husband was a beast, it's called DIVORCE HIM FIRST.

I would wager money that he was not as much of a beast as you say, you just had to demonize him to justify your putrid affair.

People will help you here. It will not come easy but they will.
Posted By: lildoggie Re: Is it reconcileable? - 08/01/10 03:02 AM
Originally Posted By: hubb1
I know that those of you that are hurting from an affair will probably look at my post and think serves her right, maybe so but before you pass judgment there is more to consider.


While there might be a touch of what you say, for most people on MB, your story is just the same old thing with different characters. There is nothing new, or different in your infidelity.

Call the Harley's, they have expertise, we're just knowledgeable laymen.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: Is it reconcileable? - 08/01/10 03:38 AM
Originally Posted By: lildoggie

While there might be a touch of what you say, for most people on MB, your story is just the same old thing with different characters. There is nothing new, or different in your infidelity.


Well, actually its not the same. There aren't any "affairages" [that I know of] on this forum that have survived or thrived. Even Dr Harley has stated that he has tried to save them himself but is not successful.

I will copy and paste what you posted to me recently about affair marriages.

hubb, I realize you didn't come here to be "judged" but I would be remiss if I didn't point out that this is what is missing in your lives: a lack of judgment. The same mistakes that you made in your marriages have simply carried over into your affair marriage.

The very traits that made the affair possible, thoughtlessness, deceit and dishonesty have now destroyed this marriage.

You got married under the belief that adultery is the solution to a bad marriage. Your husband is only acting on that belief. You have both practiced it in this marriage and your last marriages. You have both endorsed adultery as the solution to marital problems; he is simply acting on the code you have adopted.

Here is the post that lildoggie posted recently about this:

Originally Posted By: Dr Willard Harley
they are warning you about what happens to relationship that originated as an affair. I have counseled hundreds of these couples and am presently counseling couples that married after an affair, and I can tell you from first-hand experience, and their own unsolicited comments, that if they had put the same effort into their marriages, they would be happily married to their original spouses today.

While it's true that there are happy marriages that start as affairs, they are in the minority. Only about 5% of all affairs end in marriage, and only about 1/3 of those marriages survive the first five years. You probably have one chance in 100 of turning this marriage into a successful relationship, and you're off to a terrible start in spite of your love and commitment.

I have a theory about why marriage after an affair is so unsuccessful, but the fact that they're unsuccessful is well documented. My main contention is that for whatever reasons, those who have affairs tend not to follow one of my cardinal principles for marriage: The Policy of Joint Agreement (never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse). They tend to do what they please without considering each other's feelings. While that may not apply to both members of the relationship, it almost always applies to at least one of them. Your friend's affair with another man in the beginning your your relationship is evidence that she's not thinking about your interests.

I try very hard to keep these marriages together, in spite of the fact that there is such a low probability of success. If I thought I would fail, I wouldn't be wasting my time. And yet, I have had very little success. I keep thinking that I will eventually find a way to succeed.

There are so many obsticles to overcome. In addition to failure to follow the POJA, there is also a marked failure to follow the Policy of Radical Honesty. They tend to be incredibly dishonest, in spite of the fact that they start out thinking they can look right into each other's very souls.


Also this

Originally Posted By: Dr Harley
As it turns out, most affairs end within six months of their seeing the light of day (being revealed to their family and friends), and almost all affairs end without leading to marriage. Even those few that end in marriage have only a 25% rate of success.

That's because affairs are based on dishonesty and thoughtlessness for the feelings of others. That same dishonesty and thoughtlessness eventually turns on the lovers themselves, and the affair is destroyed by those same flaws that made it possible in the first place. What drives affairs is passion, not commitment, and once the passion wanes, there is nothing to help the lovers restore their passion. here
Posted By: MrsWondering Re: Is it reconcileable? - 08/01/10 04:05 AM
Originally Posted By: hubb1
Having been through a Marriage Builder course I understood what happened but was totally shocked.


What does this mean?

When did you go through a "Marriage Builder Course"? Where? With whom? Are you saying that you attended a Marriage Builders Weekend?

Did you and your betrayed husband [BH] try to reconcile your marriage using Marriage Builders? Did your BH ever post here?

Mrs. W
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Is it reconcileable? - 08/01/10 12:59 PM
Originally Posted By: hubb1
I’ve never posted on a forum before, but I am at my wit’s end. I will preface this post by saying that my husband and I lived together for 18 months before getting married and have been married for 3 years this October if we make it. And the biggie….this relationship started as an affair calculated for the purpose of ending our miserable previous marriages to spouses that cared nothing about meeting emotional needs, my ex in particular who went through the course with me said it was hog wash.
Last July my husband started having an affair. Having been through a Marriage Builder course I understood what happened but was totally shocked. I was very happy, while he hid all his complaints and pretended to be happy, leaving my head spinning. At first I went into denial. I let things go unaddressed for 4 months, with him leaving and staying “with friends” and his phone turned off, every other weekend. In November I confronted him with proof although I knew who it was all along; a co-worker. He stayed with her for ten days then called and said he wanted to come home. We talked very openly and in detail probably for the first time on his part. However, he went into withdrawal and decided it was best for him to move out after about 2 weeks of total depression. Neither of us knew at the time he was going through withdrawal.
For weeks there was very little contact. All my questions got the consistent answer of “I don’t know”. Then suddenly the middle of January he calls me up and wants to go to marriage counseling and work on us. We did, both at church and a private therapist. It became obvious after 2 months that he was just going through the motions. Again I did my homework and sure enough she was right there the whole time. I confronted him again and he admitted that he told her we were through and told me they were through, lying to both of us and got caught up in the headiness of being wanted by 2 women. It was at that point I decided to change my approach. I started going out by myself and met someone. I did not want to get drug into the whole adultery thing so our dates were always in public. Well my husband went crazy, even following us and yelling at us. I also filed for divorce. It took the lawyer 6 weeks to file and during that time I kept lines of communication open and even asked him if he would come home and really work on us; still the answer was no. The paperwork got filed and suddenly there was an immense need for him to control everything I did by means of verbal abuse as well as financial manipulation. Not having any real connection with the person I was seeing, I completely broke it off to spare me/him the drama. My husband said he was working on breaking things off too by looking for another job and telling me he only talks to her about work at work which isn’t exactly true. He has been working on being transparent, even confessed that she bought him expensive gifts, took him on weekend outings, and paid for dates. I know my husband has had a problem with throwing gifts at problems as a distraction, so she was really speaking his love language. I have no means of competing with that. Anyway, for the last 2 weeks he has been coming over and chatting online with me every day trying to convince me that he is doing things to work on us, but never really saying that it’s over with her when asked and he estimates at least 6 more months of separation are needed. He begs me not to continue the divorce, but states he wants to remain married but live separate. This concept is unacceptable. After reading so much on this site, I am torn. I can see where I must work on meeting his emotional needs,but I also must be meeting his needs for him to not want to end things,or maybe he is just addicted to me, not that he loves me. In the meantime, none of my needs are being met except financial. He does not take me out, stops by at his convenience, ignores me at his convenience, but blows up my phone if I ignore him. The final is in October, but as much as we try to talk, we always end up fighting because he refuses to meet my needs even when I put them on the table in plain words. At this point I don’t know if the marriage is salvageable or even worth it. Thoughts?


My thoughts ....

"Having been through a Marriage Builder course I understood what happened but was totally shocked"



Really?
I'm "shocked" that you say you went through a MB course, and yet, apparently you learned next to nothing.
And, after going through a MB course, you "never" posted on a forum ?
How is that possible?
skeptical
Posted By: Pepperband Re: Is it reconcileable? - 08/01/10 01:20 PM
Originally Posted By: hubb1
I know that those of you that are hurting from an affair will probably look at my post and think serves her right, maybe so but before you pass judgment there is more to consider. My first marriage ended due to my husband having an affair. In my second marriage it appears his agenda was to have kids, once he had that things changed. He no longer had interest in sex because he was really addicted to porn ( which when you refuse to have sex with your wife but would rather be on the computer or in the bathroom looking at porn, I find that to be a bit unfaithful). After the birth of our second child I came home to be with the kids and completely isolated. No cable, no internet, no friends, just babies and Barney all day every day. I went to church on Wednesday and Sunday and Walmart on Saturday, with him of course. He was passive aggressive and really good at mind games. At the encouragement of our pastor I decided to go back to school. That is when he really got nasty. Every day I was told I was a terrible wife, a terrible mother, all because I went to school. I even got a job and we had health insurance for the first time since the kids were born, but still I was a terrible person. Over time I began to believe him. I was on 2 different anti-depressants a day just to try to cope. I chose to have the affair not because I was in love, but because it was the quickest way out, 90 days instead of a year. Even though I had a job, I had no money to hire a lawyer, and I believed his lies so much I didn't even feel like I could take care of myself or my kids. For those of you that are hurt and think of revenge, I have paid dearly. His father paid for his lawyer, I had none. He got the kids, the house, the boat, and a third of my paycheck. His meanness carries on to this day. He moved his girlfriend in the day our divorce was final and she is just as mean as he is; she physically beat me up recently. So have I paid a price, yes and still paying. I did not start out in love or intending to marry the man I had the affair with to end my previous marriage. It was wrong and I knew it and felt then and still feel shame now.
This relationship started out wrong but grew and was the first relationship I had been in where I was nurtured and encouraged to grow and have friends, finish my degree, pursue a career and my relationship with my children, who actually got to go on their first vacation and got their first game console. I was happy and fulfilled, I worked and did all the wife/mother things I was told I was a failure at before, for someone that actually said thank you. The problem started when he changed jobs. I work days, he works a mix but usually 2-3 nights a week. His job was demanding yet the title and kudos he was getting started meeting his needs instead of me. Furthermore, for him the affair came because I represented responsibility and she was kid free and equal in title and pay to him, so he could go play with her and forget about me and the kids and his demanding job. My world came crashing down last July, and I am hurting. So before anyone decides to write responses that are of a vindictive nature, rest assured I have gotten my payback many times over and still am, so if you can't post anything objective and useful, please do not post at all. Thanks.


On a scale of 1 to 10 ... 10 being best ...
What score would you give your own reasoning and judgment based on your past/current choices?

Same 1 to 10 scale...
Rate your knowledge and use of MB concepts you learned from the "MB course" that you took.


And, while you're at it ( taking inventory of everyone else from your past ) what have you learned are your worst/destructive marital bad habits?
I can spot quite a few clues, but I am wondering if you've had the time for self reflection, or if you've been too busy tallying up every one else's faults.


Lastly, having been "recently" beat up by your XH's woman .... What did the police report say? Has this gone to court yet?
I am assuming you called the police.
Which would be very important because that violent women is (apparently) helping raise your kids (XH got custody because ???)

You've painted a very unflattering picture of yourself.
Why?
Posted By: SDCW_man Re: Is it reconcileable? - 08/01/10 05:23 PM
redflag redflag redflag redflag redflag redflag

Hubb,

I scarcely know where to begin and this will definitely fall into the “tough love” category, so get ready. There are just so many very obvious depraved-relationship-busters here! No offense, but both you and your affair-husband (i.e. your current one, H#2 I assume) began this relationship irresponsibly, improperly, and dishonestly and both of you have learned NOTHING about decency, loyalty, standards, and personal boundaries. Predictably, your AH starting cheating on you and you then began a revenge-affair-dating-relationship (yes, Hubb, “dating” someone—even non-sexually—while you are married is inappropriate & EMOTIONAL INFIDELITY). Duhhhh!!!

Insert your favorite trite-but-true expression here about “Once a cheater, always a cheater” & “if someone cheats WITH you, they will later cheat ON you”.

Affair-marriages, no matter how “meant to be” and “soulmate-ish” they feel in the early stages, ALMOST ALWAYS END IN REPEAT ADULTERY & DIVORCE. The failure rate for such unions exceeds 90%. The reasons why are obvious. Affair-marriages almost always take place in the heat of the illogical and unrealistic emotions surrounding a flight-of-fantasy-escape-adultery-relationship and an existing marriage(s) that are painfully betrayed, torn asunder, and hurriedly replaced in the process.

Basically, affair-marriages are the worst of irrational teenage puppy-love + reality-avoidance rebounding COMBINED….with a great deal of guilt, resentment, selling-out, unresolved baggage, and shattered families added in to boot. Relationships that begin with and involve betrayal, deceit, dishonor, secrecy, and values-compromise, unsurprisingly almost never live up to the promises of marriage and almost never involve partners who would have mutually agreed to date each other under different (proper) circumstances in the first place.

It is possible that your story about your original-husband (OH) is completely true in that he absolutely refused in full knowledge to meet your clearly-stated ENs at all. If so, then you should have separated from him, divorced, and taken time (at least a full year) to be alone, grow, heal, and get yourself emotionally stable/secure BEFORE you even considered another romantic relationship. That is the only way to avoid the above adultery-fantasy or immediate post-divorce-rebound-fantasy scenarios. It’s also the right thing to do morally as well (which hopefully means something to you now).

It is also quite possible that your story about your OH is not exactly “fully accurate”…and I am very skeptical of your version. Since you did stray, you have every motivation to follow the standard wayward-fog script by re-writing history and vilifying your BH as justification for your (“don’t look at me—it’s all his fault!”) irresponsible adultery. Frankly, we have all heard that stuff a million times and I’m not convinced that you are being fully honest or introspective here. No one will claim that your OH was “mistake free” or “the perfect husband”, but I doubt many MB-vets here are going to buy your story at face-value.

Thoughts? Well, I’ll tell you even though you are not going to like it and I doubt you will listen. Your current relationship is hopeless and always was. It never should have existed in the first place…and it shows. There is rampant (dual-dual) infidelity here. Within just a few years BOTH you and your current-husband have EACH cheated TWICE…once each on your original-spouses and once each on your current-spouses. The immaturity, sleaziness, and shamelessness of it all makes a mockery of what a sacred commitment is ordained to be. This isn’t a marriage…it’s a Jerry Springer episode.

Get a divorce from your current husband and stay apart forever. Take some time to read, learn, counsel, and grow (up). Your best bet is almost always to return and build a NEW relationship with your ORIGINAL husband. [Yes, that means you need to swallow your stubborn pride which got you into this mess in the first place.] If he is remarried or won’t have anything to do with you, then please stay romantically single for a good long time so you don’t hurt anyone else or end up looking divorce #3 in the face a few years down the road. And…no matter what…don’t ever have an affair again!!!
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