Marriage Builders®
Posted By: dutchcourage How can I trust her again? - 11/26/10 11:21 PM
My story is a little different to most. For a start this whole thing has happened within the space of a matter of weeks. My wife confessed to me only this Sunday (11/21).

My wife and I have been married for 9.5 years and have 5 beautiful children (4 of our own plus my wife's nephew who we have raised since birth). Our marriage has always been a source of pride for both of us. The sex has been great, and we were both very much in love.

It had been a plan for a while for us to migrate to my wife's home country (in South America) to build a business and live life in the sun together. The plan was for my wife to go first with the kids and then I would follow several months later after resolving loose ends at work and with our home.

We have only been apart since 10/15 and spoke every day either by phone or on Skype. We even had webcam sex on several occasions.

Nothing could have forewarned me about the following events. Basically my wife called me on Sunday (11/21) as normal and we spoke. But I could sense there was something up. She confessed to me that she had become friendly with a man over there. SHe told me that he reminded her of me. She thought they could be friends and even invited him round to the house to chat and to play with our kids. She told me she was lonely and vulnerable without me and just wanted some company around the place. However it was obvious the guy was after more than just friendship. She had plenty of warning signs but didn't pay them any attention.

To cut a short story even shorter she invited him round to the house on Saturday evening (11/20), to talk and put him straight. She says she doesn't really know what happened next as it all happened so fast, but basically she found herself on the floor with him on top of her. Just as he had penetrated her she heard a voice in her head asking if this was really what she was throwing her marriage away for her. She immediately got up and told him to leave, which he did.

This is her version of events. She told me this on Sunday, so less than 24 hours after it happened. She told me she wants no more contact with him, and, even though he has called several times she will not answer her phone.

According to my wife, this was never her intention. She wouldn't dream of hurting me and the last thing she would want is to risk our marriage.

But can I believe her? Although things happened fast on the actual night, she had been friends with him for several weeks before and had admitted that she felt a connection to him. This has completely turned my world upside down. I would never have even dreamed that my wife could betray me like this. There were no tell-tale signs, nothing that would warn me that this might happen. She tells me she is in shock herself. She can't believe what she has done and claims she is full of remorse over her actions. She says that her emotions were all over the place (just finished her period) and she was just looking for someone to hug/connect with.

I don't want our marriage to fall apart over one mistake but can I trust her again? I don't want our kids just to become the next victims of a broken home. My confidence is completely shattered right now. I can't concentrate at work and burst into tears when at home. I want to believe her but the trust is gone.

The worst thing of all is that she is still on the other side of the world from me right now. I am considering speeding up my move to join her and the kids before the new year; how can I trust her when I am so far away? But is this a wise move so soon? It is less than a week since all these events took place.

Right now it doesn't seem like the pain will ever go away, but I know I want to make our marriage work. I've put too much of my energy and love into this relationship for it to be over just like that.

Any advice?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 12:17 AM
Welcome to Marriage Builders, dutchcourage. Sorry you have to be here.

In a nutshell, understand something: your story is not different. You have a wayward wife. Where she is is immaterial. Like waywards from the beginning of time, your WW has been missing something in your M for a while. She was away from you and found an opportunity to get that missing thing. She found someone who was willing to give her attention that she needed. She was able to pursue this because the two of you were apart, which should never happen with a married couple. Can you get down there ASAP? Your W is now wayward.

How fast can you get down there? Tomorrow? LEAVE YOUR HOUSE IF YOU HAVE TO.

Have you read anything on this site?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 12:34 AM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
I don't want our marriage to fall apart over one mistake but can I trust her again? I don't want our kids just to become the next victims of a broken home. My confidence is completely shattered right now. I can't concentrate at work and burst into tears when at home. I want to believe her but the trust is gone.

The worst thing of all is that she is still on the other side of the world from me right now. I am considering speeding up my move to join her and the kids before the new year; how can I trust her when I am so far away? But is this a wise move so soon? It is less than a week since all these events took place.

Dutch, I am sorry this has happened to you. frown Welcome to Marriage Builders.

The answer to your question is that you shouldn't trust again. It was too much trust that led to this sad state of affairs. Instead of worrying about gaining trust, you should be focused on moving to be with her ASAP. And that means going there to be with her so this doesn't happen again. You should not trust her until you are living with her again and spending every night with her again. Living apart like this is an INVITATION to an affair. It is not a lack of trust that ruins marriages, but a lack of protective boundaries.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
When a couple spend their leisure-time away from each other, it is not only a breeding ground for an affair, but it can also be another clue to an affair. That's especially true when a spouse doesn't want the other to be present at their favorite activity. I counseled a man who went fishing every summer for a week with his friends, wives not invited. But they did invite a secretary from work who cooked their meals (and had sex with them all) during the trip.

Anything that takes one spouse away from the other overnight is an invitation for an affair. But when an opposite-sex co-worker tends to join a spouse on business trips, red flags should be flying in all directions. Any evidence that this relationship is anything more than pure business is, from my perspective, a gigantic clue that an affair might be in progress. That's also the case if a spouse and opposite-sex co-worker spend a great deal of time working together.

We are all wired to have an affair. We can all fall in love with someone of the opposite sex if that person meets one of our emotional needs. If you don't think it can happen to you because of your conviction or will-power, you are particularly vulnerable to an affair. And if you think your spouse would never have an affair, you are also vulnerable.

Look what happened to poor Kathy Lee Gifford. She stated publicly and wrote in one of her books that she trusted her husband completely, that he would never cheat on her. But she should not have trusted her husband. If she would have taken the steps she is now taking to help him avoid another affair, the first would never have taken place, and she would have avoided all its pain and embarrassment. I don't trust my wife completely and she doesn't trust me, and that's why neither of us have ever had an affair. Lack of trust does not make spouses paranoid and miserable, it makes their marriages safe.
Coping With Infidelity

You CAN recover your marriage, if you diligently follow these guidelines:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide. here

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.
here
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 12:37 AM
The solution is to eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible [your separation] and repair the marriage by creating a romantic marriage. The post affair marriage has to be recreated into something much better than pre-affair lest you will just end up with a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 12:42 AM
Originally Posted by Dr Harley on the subject of trust
One topic is loss of trust. How can a spouse ever trust an unfaithful partner again? My answer is that the spouse should never have been trusted in the first place. I shouldn't be trusted by my wife, and I shouldn't trust her. The fact is that we are all wired for infidelity, and under certain conditions, we'll all do it. The way to protect your marriage from something that has been common to man (and women) for thousands of years is to recognize the threat, and do something to prevent it from happening. Basing a marriage on the Policy of Radical Honesty and the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward preventing an affair. Being each other's favorite leisure-time companions, and not being away from each other overnight are also important safety measures. Meeting each other's most important emotional needs, avoiding Love Busters and building an integrated lifestyle, free of secret second lives, are all ways to affair-proof your marriage. With these measures in place, we end up trusting our spouses because an affair becomes almost impossible to achieve.
Coping With Infidelity Part 4
Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 12:44 AM
Thanks for the encouragement.

Maybe I am still in shock, or just being naive, but I really do believe her when she tells me she didn't want this to happen. She says that she missed my presence and affection and attention, and was caught out at a vulnerable time. She felt hopeless because there was no definite timeframe of us being reunited.

I'm not making excuses for her, as it remains a deep betrayal of our marriage vows, but I do believe she is sincere and wants this to work.

I have to finish off at my work, but I am booked to fly over there on 12/23. Is this too late? I know the next few weeks will be a torture for me.

Am I being too understanding and forgiving too soon?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Thanks for the encouragement.

Maybe I am still in shock, or just being naive, but I really do believe her when she tells me she didn't want this to happen. She says that she missed my presence and affection and attention, and was caught out at a vulnerable time. She felt hopeless because there was no definite timeframe of us being reunited.

I am sure she didn't want it to happen. She was probably flirting with him and he pushed her to have sex with him. But she set the stage and allowed another man to meet her needs. He has been courting her and they have been having an emotional affair. It advanced to a physical affair and she is just a little scared.

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I'm not making excuses for her, as it remains a deep betrayal of our marriage vows, but I do believe she is sincere and wants this to work.

I believe her too. But her sincerity is not enough to stop the affair. It was not enough to stop her from having an emotional affair. The affair has now taken a big step in a new direction and will probably go further now unless it is stopped. She is scared that is jumped this fast, but once she gets over the shock, she will miss the affection and companionship he has been offering her. I expect her to invite him back once the shock has worn off and the loneliness sets back in.

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I have to finish off at my work, but I am booked to fly over there on 12/23. Is this too late?

It probably will be too late. The affair has advanced to a new level and it will likely continue until you are there to stop it. OR if she comes back to be with you.

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Am I being too understanding and forgiving too soon?

Yes. There is nothing TO forgive at this point. Forgiveness should be earned. That is in both your best interests.
Posted By: letgoletGod Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Am I being too understanding and forgiving too soon?
Coming from someone who has been in your shoes yes, it is too soon. You can talk to her about what happened in a non confrontational way but there is no way you can begin the healing process until you are there with her face to face. Read everything you can on this site and listen to the vets. They can help you though this. I wish I had found this site 4 years ago.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 02:49 AM
Sorry to say as long as WW lives there close to OM whether you are there or not there will always be the chance for this affair to restart.

That's why there must be NC, no contact for life. Can't have NC down there with the OM living close to WW.

You want to recover this marriage then you have to get WW to move back home to here.

WW complains tell the about the need for NC and that her actions polluted that place.
Posted By: Delta_ Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:24 AM
So sorry this happened to you, Dutch.

You wife may very well be sincere that she wasn't seeking to have an affair.

But her interactions with this man felt good to her in various ways and were filling a void. She continued to go back for a little more and a little more of the fix, likely not intending for it to progress to the point it did. Being physical with this man quite probably crossed her mind before it happened, yet she probably told herself that she wouldn't allow it to escalate to anything physical.

Just like she's telling you now that she won't allow it to continue.

Part of her knows she shouldn't allow it to continue. Part of her doesn't want it to continue. And she is likely very sincere. But a fix is a fix.

What you have to remember is that she doesn't have the necessary boundaries, the necessary tools in place yet to successfully end this affair the way it needs to be ended.

Get your tush down there now!

How will you feel if part of her succumbs to another fix to fill the void she still has?

Your wife did a good by sharing the truth with you. It is her cry for help. It sounds like she very much wants to do the right thing. But she doesn't yet have the necessary tools, and she is on her own.

She may be willing to call the MB Coaching Center herself first thing Monday morning, but if she doesn't, you most certainly should:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html
Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 10:05 AM
Thanks for the support everyone. It feels good to be able to talk about this.

Its not that simple for me to get down there right now. When I go it will be for good and there is so much i have to arrange here first. My fear is that by the time I get there it will be too late.

She is blocking her feelings right now, she says she can't deal with the shame and disgrace, and has to stay busy to cope (not difficult with 5 small children in the house).

She is receiving counselling at her church (we are both Christians) but has a LOT of baggage from her past. Abuse, neglect, rape. Blocking her hurt has been her way of dealing with things.

As for me, I am at a very low ebb just now. Believe me, if I could be there tomorrow I would. I am so paranoid right now. I do believe her when she says she is sorry, I want to believe her when she says she will not allow this to happen again, but its so difficult.

She is going to be away from the home all day today (with the kids at her home village). Right now, if I can't see exactly where she is I fear the worst.
Posted By: TheRoad Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Thanks for the support everyone. It feels good to be able to talk about this.

Its not that simple for me to get down there right now. When I go it will be for good and there is so much i have to arrange here first. My fear is that by the time I get there it will be too late.

She is blocking her feelings right now, she says she can't deal with the shame and disgrace, and has to stay busy to cope (not difficult with 5 small children in the house).

She is receiving counselling at her church (we are both Christians) but has a LOT of baggage from her past. Abuse, neglect, rape. Blocking her hurt has been her way of dealing with things.

As for me, I am at a very low ebb just now. Believe me, if I could be there tomorrow I would. I am so paranoid right now. I do believe her when she says she is sorry, I want to believe her when she says she will not allow this to happen again, but its so difficult.

She is going to be away from the home all day today (with the kids at her home village). Right now, if I can't see exactly where she is I fear the worst.

This is why you get the kids and WW on the plane headed back home today. NC must be forever. WW must be moved away from OM.

Why do you think your head is about to explode?

WW is to close to the OM.
Posted By: ForeverHers Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Yes. There is nothing TO forgive at this point. Forgiveness should be earned. That is in both your best interests.

Dutch, ML has given you a lot of good advice and information, but allow me as one Christian brother to another, disagree with this statement. Forgiveness is NEVER earned, it is given. It is commanded by God when a sinner repents and seeks your forgiveness.

What is EARNED is the right to be trusted. That is not the same thing as forgiveness.

If you want to discuss recovery from a Biblical perspective, I will by happy to discuss it further with you. Since you don't know me, let me just say that my wife and I are now recovered from her 6-year long affair. We did so with the help of MB ideas, but primarily by counseling that was focused on being obedient to the Word of God regardless of what we might be "feeling" at any given time.



Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Thanks for the support everyone. It feels good to be able to talk about this.

Its not that simple for me to get down there right now. When I go it will be for good and there is so much i have to arrange here first. My fear is that by the time I get there it will be too late.

Timing for your departure is what it is. Just understand that there are many things you cannot do until you are actually present with your wife. Stay in daily contact with her in the meantime.



Originally Posted by dutchcourage
She is blocking her feelings right now, she says she can't deal with the shame and disgrace, and has to stay busy to cope (not difficult with 5 small children in the house).

Of course she is blocking her feelings. She KNOWS she committed the worst possible sin against God and your marriage that she could do. That is tough to deal with. You can help her a little in that are simply by reminding her that we are all sinners and we are all in need of God's forgiveness.



Originally Posted by dutchcourage
She is receiving counselling at her church (we are both Christians) but has a LOT of baggage from her past. Abuse, neglect, rape. Blocking her hurt has been her way of dealing with things.

That's a good thing that she is receiving counseling, but there is a world of difference between individual counseling and MARITAL counseling. Circumstances right now predicate that her getting some counseling on her own is a good "stop gap," but once you are there, there should be NO individual counseling. YOU must be present at all counseling sessions that you will both know everything that is said and discussed. It will be difficult, especially at first, but it is ESSENTIAL.

Counseling, psychological, for abuse, neglect, and rape is NEEDED. You may want to consider a professional Psychiatrist who for that sort of counseling, at least in addition to marital counseling for the adultery.



Originally Posted by dutchcourage
As for me, I am at a very low ebb just now. Believe me, if I could be there tomorrow I would. I am so paranoid right now. I do believe her when she says she is sorry, I want to believe her when she says she will not allow this to happen again, but its so difficult.

Would you care for a link to my first couple of posts from 8.5 years ago when I was in your shoes? If so, let me know and I'll get you the link to the posts. IF you choose to read them, understand that I was just as raw as you are today, but that now my wife and I recovered from her 6-year long affair. Recovery is not only possible, it is guaranteed IF you are both willing to humble yourselves before God and DO what tells you do.

This is certainly a time when you will both be "forced" to examine your faith and what being submissive to God really means. It is time when you will both examine just what it really means to be a Christian.



Originally Posted by dutchcourage
She is going to be away from the home all day today (with the kids at her home village). Right now, if I can't see exactly where she is I fear the worst.

It might not help much, but that fear is normal and is something that you will simply have to chose to endure for now. It is a fear that will take a long time to "go away" and will likely never go completely away. But there will be a time when you can have a thought of fear along those lines and be able to reject the fear because you will have rebuilt your marriage and have had enough time pass that you KNOW she will not cheat again. THAT will have a lot to with your and your wife's daily relationship with God as a part of your lives and not just as a "nice thing to have."

Keep posting. You NEED the support and place to talk about things, both now and especially when you leave the country and are united with your wife.

God bless.

Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 02:01 PM
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This is why you get the kids and WW on the plane headed back home today. NC must be forever. WW must be moved away from OM.

Why do you think your head is about to explode?

WW is to close to the OM.

I wish it was this simple. They are half way around the world. For them to come back now is going to cost more than 6,000 EUR that we just do not have.

That is what is eating me inside. I know that we cannot hope to reconcile until we are together, despite it being what we both want (I believe her when she tells me she only wants me, that she only ever wanted me). She suspicion and lack of trust will remain until we are under the same roof, and most likely for a long time after.

The next four weeks are going to be torture. I have to bring this to God and pray for her and the kids. Only He can bring us together now.
Posted By: Delta_ Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 02:02 PM
Dutch, why did your wife move to the particular city she's in? Does she have family there?

Has she told her family about her affair?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 02:09 PM
Originally Posted by ForeverHers
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Yes. There is nothing TO forgive at this point. Forgiveness should be earned. That is in both your best interests.

Dutch, ML has given you a lot of good advice and information, but allow me as one Christian brother to another, disagree with this statement. Forgiveness is NEVER earned, it is given. It is commanded by God when a sinner repents and seeks your forgiveness.

Fortunately, there is a way to forgive that helps the marriage and meets our Christian obligation to forgive. [a reminder to Foreverhers that this poster is here for Marriage Builders and we need to stick to that] Dr Harley explains it here:

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
Forgiveness is something I believe in with all my heart. I forgive others and have been forgiven many times. God wants us all to be forgiving just as he has forgiven us.

And, as you have noticed, when you don't forgive someone, it can "eat you up." It's not healthy to keep resentment bottled up inside of you.

The vast majority of couples I counsel who have been through the horror of an affair, have better marriages after the affair than before. It's because the affair jolts them into recognizing the need for building an affair-proof marriage, and the safety precautions they use help them create compatibility and love. But has the offended spouse forgiven the offender in these marriages? Yes and no.

First let's try to understand what forgiveness is. One illustration is telling a person who owes you $10,000 that he won't have to pay you back. You "forgive" the debt. In other words, forgiveness is eliminating a obligation of some sort.

<snip>
I'm in favor of forgiveness in many situations, but this isn't one of them. In the case of infidelity, compensation not only helps the offended spouse overcome the resentment he or she harbors, but the right kind of compensation helps restore the relationship and prevents the painful act from being repeated.

In most cases, an offended spouse would be stupid to forgive the wayward spouse without just compensation. It's like forgiving a friend of the $10,000 he owes you, when it's actually in the friend's best interest to pay you in full because it would teach him how to be more responsible with money.

As it turns out, in every affair there is a way to adequately compensate the offended spouse that is good for the offender and good for the marriage. At first, the offended spouse may not want to be compensated. He or she may try to get as far away from the offender as possible to avoid further pain. But if the spouse asks for forgiveness along with a willingness to compensate, the offended spouse is usually willing to entertain the proposal.


Can't We Forgive and Forget?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
[That is what is eating me inside. I know that we cannot hope to reconcile until we are together, despite it being what we both want (I believe her when she tells me she only wants me, that she only ever wanted me). She suspicion and lack of trust will remain until we are under the same roof, and most likely for a long time after.

The next four weeks are going to be torture. I have to bring this to God and pray for her and the kids. Only He can bring us together now.

Can you not go there now? One thing I think you and your wife should do ASAP is expose this affair to your children and any close friends and family who are there with her. It should be exposed to anyone who can hold her accountable. I would get the kids on the phone and tell them about the affair, explain that OM is a bad man and that they are to call you if he comes around.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 02:14 PM
How old are your kids and your nephew?
Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:11 PM
Thank you so much ForeverHers. Your words are exactly what I need to hear right now.

I believe I have been complacent with my marriage and have not thought to cover my wife in prayer, as it seemed so natural that we would be together forever.

It is now I am beginning to realise that our marriage has been brought about through God's grace, and that only through His grace will it be reconciled.

The funny thing is my prayer life has become so much better, and I feel so much closer to God since this happened.

We definitely need marriage counselling and that will be one of the first things to arrange when I get over there. Would you recommend a specialist marriage counsellor or it is more important for the counsellor to be a Christian, although not necessarily specialised in relationships?

I wholeheartedely agree with you statement that forgiveness of my wife is a MUST. How can I expect to be forgiven if I cannot forgive others. My wife knows I have forgiven her already. The last thing I would want is for her salvation to be at risk. That is more important to me now than even our marriage.

Thank you brother.
Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:17 PM
DeltaDriveDeceit:
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Dutch, why did your wife move to the particular city she's in? Does she have family there?

Has she told her family about her affair?

It was always our plan to move there, but we were taking it in stages. That is why she moved first with the kids. I went there initially with them to help them get settled in and make sure they were OK, but work commitments meant I had to come back. I realise now that this was a stupid mistake.

She does have some family there, although most of her family are over here.

No, she is too ashamed to tell her family. She had spoken to them about the friendship she had with this OM and they had warned her of the danger she was getting into. It seems I was the last to know about him.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
We definitely need marriage counselling and that will be one of the first things to arrange when I get over there. Would you recommend a specialist marriage counsellor or it is more important for the counsellor to be a Christian, although not necessarily specialised in relationships?

dutchcourage, I would find a Christian counselor who specializes in Marriage Builders. OR get counseling directly from MB. They have an online program and do international phone coaching. MB is completely different from traditional marriage counseling in that it actually works. Traditional marriage counseling has an 84% failure is destructive to marriages. They don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages and are rarely pro-marriage. They don't understand the dynamics of adultery and fail to counsel the couple to protect their marriage from a repeat.

The difference between them and MB is that the goal of MB is to restore the romantic love to your marriage and implement sane boundaries that protect it from an affair. They don't believe in endless counseling sessions, but in a solid plan of ACTION to recover your marriage. They are action oriented, not feeling oriented.

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I wholeheartedely agree with you statement that forgiveness of my wife is a MUST. How can I expect to be forgiven if I cannot forgive others. My wife knows I have forgiven her already. The last thing I would want is for her salvation to be at risk. That is more important to me now than even our marriage.

The Bible commands forgiveness with repentance. That is what Dr Harley describes. Using just compensation, she repents by turning away from her sin. THAT is the best for your marriage. Please read the article. Dr Harley is a Bible believing Christian and there is nothing in his suggestions that conflicts with our Bible.

The recovery of your marriage DEPENDS on her turning away from her sin and protecting the marriage from the affair continuing. PLEASE don't ignore this step.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Thanks for the encouragement.

Maybe I am still in shock, or just being naive, but I really do believe her when she tells me she didn't want this to happen. She says that she missed my presence and affection and attention, and was caught out at a vulnerable time. She felt hopeless because there was no definite timeframe of us being reunited.
If this is truly how she feels I believe you may have a huge problem on your hands. She's telling you that she'll screw a guy if she gets lonely for you??? Do you see where she is basically punishing you for leaving her to her own self-discipline?

I'm not making excuses for her, as it remains a deep betrayal of our marriage vows, but I do believe she is sincere and wants this to work.

I have to finish off at my work, but I am booked to fly over there on 12/23. Is this too late? I know the next few weeks will be a torture for me.
Can you get your family back here until you're ready to leave? What are they doing down there without you? I would not leave her alone for a month, no way. Especially after she told her that she screwed a guy because she missed you! faint

Am I being too understanding and forgiving too soon?
If you feel understanding and forgiving at this point, I would call you naive.
Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:26 PM
Quote
Can you not go there now? One thing I think you and your wife should do ASAP is expose this affair to your children and any close friends and family who are there with her. It should be exposed to anyone who can hold her accountable. I would get the kids on the phone and tell them about the affair, explain that OM is a bad man and that they are to call you if he comes around.

Our kids are so young (eldest 10 down to youngest of 2). I really don't want to get them dragged into all this and hurt in the process. Right now they are alone with the unfaithful partner and to tell them that mummy has been cheating could have serious consequences right now. What if one of them decided to run away? They know very few people over there and are totally reliant of my wife for their support and wellbeing. I can't drive a wedge between her and them.

My wife's mother is there on occasion, but I can't tell her either. She and my wife have many unresolved issues from her childhood and this would be the icing on the cake I feel. They have never had the best of relationships.

I could expose this to her family here, but I really don't want to leave her open to the disgrace and shame. I love her too much for that.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:27 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
No, she is too ashamed to tell her family. She had spoken to them about the friendship she had with this OM and they had warned her of the danger she was getting into. It seems I was the last to know about him.

You need to call them all today, tell them about the affair without forewarning her and enlisting their help. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping this a secret will ony serve to enable it. Exposure will likely stop this affair dead in its tracks. Call her family and then call and tell your children. The more people who know, the more people to hold her accountable.

Don't skip this step, DC!

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley
The issue of exposure comes up when a betrayed spouse has first learned about the affair. Should it be exposed to others, or kept secret? I generally recommend exposure. When should it be exposed? I usually recommend that it be exposed immediately. To whom should it be exposed? I recommend that family, friends, children, clergy, and especially, the lover�s spouse be informed. Exposure in the workplace depends on several factors.

<snip>

Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:34 PM
Quote
Our kids are so young (eldest 10 down to youngest of 2). I really don't want to get them dragged into all this and hurt in the process. Right now they are alone with the unfaithful partner and to tell them that mummy has been cheating could have serious consequences right now. What if one of them decided to run away? They know very few people over there and are totally reliant of my wife for their support and wellbeing. I can't drive a wedge between her and them.

My wife's mother is there on occasion, but I can't tell her either. She and my wife have many unresolved issues from her childhood and this would be the icing on the cake I feel. They have never had the best of relationships.

I could expose this to her family here, but I really don't want to leave her open to the disgrace and shame. I love her too much for that.


So what you're really saying is that you choose to do nothing to stop your WW's behavior, do I understand that correctly?
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:39 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Our kids are so young (eldest 10 down to youngest of 2). I really don't want to get them dragged into all this and hurt in the process. Right now they are alone with the unfaithful partner and to tell them that mummy has been cheating could have serious consequences right now. What if one of them decided to run away? They know very few people over there and are totally reliant of my wife for their support and wellbeing. I can't drive a wedge between her and them.

Your kids are already dragged into the process and need to be told and given moral guidance. They probably already know what is going on and are very confused. Kids are hurt by lies and adultery, not by the truth. They can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies.

Dr. Harley on telling the children:

Quote
The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
here

Quote
Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
___________________________________
A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
here


Quote
My wife's mother is there on occasion, but I can't tell her either. She and my wife have many unresolved issues from her childhood and this would be the icing on the cake I feel. They have never had the best of relationships.

What other family members are there could you enlist for help? Everyone in the world has "unresolved issues from childhood" but does that really have anything to do with the present? Would your MIL be able to help? Would she be supportive of your family?

Quote
I could expose this to her family here, but I really don't want to leave her open to the disgrace and shame. I love her too much for that.

If you love her, you will not risk your marriage and your children's family by ENABLING the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy so keeping this secret only serves to enable it. Your strategy of secrecy is a bad plan, DC. Exposure can have the effect of stopping an affair dead in its tracks. You have the power to do this NOW before this goes any further. If this goes further you may not have a marriage left when you get there.


Listen to this radio clip with Dr Harley and another betrayed husband. This man did not expose his wife's affair, the affair continued and now the wife is LEAVING the husband. Dr Harley tells the man he is an "ENABLER" and if he would have exposed the affair initially that it would have killed his wife's affair. listen here
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:45 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
I could expose this to her family here, but I really don't want to leave her open to the disgrace and shame. I love her too much for that.

Helping her hide her affair is not "love," it is enabling. HUGE DIFFERENCE. You are enabling the destruction of your marriage and your children's family. You are helping the AFFAIR, not your family.

You are leaving the door open for the OM come right back today. He can come back today and all she has to do is not tell you. That is what is likely to happen if you keep the lover's secret. On the other hand, if you expose it and enlist the help of children and family members, she won't be able to bring him in anymore.

What you are facing is a situation where this affair is very likely to escalate unless you stop it. Once it goes to this next level, she will be looking to replace you. Which will be easy to do because you are not there. Do you want this man to live there and raise your kids? That is NOT an unlikely outcome, but a common one.

Your family is under spirtual assault, my friend. Bring it out into the open. Expose it.

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11

Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:50 PM
Here's what you wrote:
Quote
I really don't want to get them dragged into all this and hurt in the process.
My friend, they are down there right now and up to their eyeballs in it. You don't think they're confused by meeting 'uncle John' and being sent to bed early? Because that's what will probably be happening soon.
Quote
I can't drive a wedge between her and them.
No sweat, dutch. OM will be able to do that for you. naughty
Quote
She and my wife have many unresolved issues from her childhood and this would be the icing on the cake I feel.
Dysfunctional childhoods. We've all had them, dutch. That should not dictate your exposure.
Quote
I could expose this to her family here, but I really don't want to leave her open to the disgrace and shame. I love her too much for that.

This is faulty logic, dutch. You're saying that your WW is threatening your M by her actions, so you're going to hide her actions and enable her to continue her bad behavior because you love her. What?? crazy If she were drinking and driving would you not take away the keys and remove the possibility of her harming herself or someone else? Or would you hide this behavior and pretend everything is fine, and let her keep the keys?
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 03:56 PM
Quote
I could expose this to her family here, but I really don't want to leave her open to the disgrace and shame.

If exposure to her family will result in shame and disgrace, they should be first on your list of exposure targets.
Dutch, you want her to feel shame! You want her to feel disgrace! You don't want her to feel entitled - you don't want her to feel good about her behavior! If no one knows but her and OM, believe me, they won't be feeling shame and disgrace.
Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 04:08 PM
Quote
What you are facing is a situation where this affair is very likely to escalate unless you stop it. Once it goes to this next level, she will be looking to replace you. Which will be easy to do because you are not there. Do you want this man to live there and raise your kids? That is NOT an unlikely outcome, but a common one.

Really? She has told me she has had no contact with him since it happened. She says I am the only one for her and that she is living under Grace at this moment, because she knows that to now willfully disobew God will lead to her going to hell.

I know that this may sound ridiculous and crazy to people here, but she had been warned before anything started about the dangers of men using black magic to get women to sleep with them. There are a lot of spiritual forces out there that we do not understand. Black magic is very powerful where she is, and is practised by many people. I am not saying that this is what has happened, but it remains a possibility.

She was warned of this by her family, and has received the same message from the Christian counsellor she is seeing. It happens more often than we would like to think. The men prey on vulnerable and lonely women and use potions to control or pacify them.

Am I in denial? Am I just making excuses for her? Only God knows.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Really? She has told me she has had no contact with him since it happened. She says I am the only one for her and that she is living under Grace at this moment, because she knows that to now willfully disobew God will lead to her going to hell.

But she knew that when she began an emotional affair with this man and allowed this to happen. She knew you were the only one for her and she was living under God's grace when this happened. IT did not stop her before and it won't stop her now. You don't understand what you are dealing with here. If she decides to invite him back in, you will be the LAST person she will tell.

Your wife has very quickly developed an emotional affair with this man. He has been allowed to meet her needs in your absence.

He has probably met her need for conversation and affection and she has slowly grown addicted to him. The affair took a jumpstart when the OM had sex with your wife and this frightened her. But once she gets used to the idea, she won't be frightened anymore. And she will remember how good the OM made her feel when he was meeting her needs for affection, admiration and conversation.

He will be back.
Posted By: Delta_ Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Am I in denial? Am I just making excuses for her?

Yes.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Am I in denial? Am I just making excuses for her? Only God knows.

No, we know it too. You are in denial. You are making serious strategic mistakes.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 04:26 PM
What is really scary is that this guy has been able to move in for the kill with your wife WITHIN one short month of your separation from her. He must be really smooth. This is a full boat emotional affair that just went physical. It will take much more than your wife's "WORD" to stop this train wreck.

HOPE is not a plan, DC. You need a real plan to stop this affair and keep it stopped. No plan is a plan to FAIL.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"As you already know, I�m a strong advocate of honesty and openness in marriage. I call it transparency�letting your spouse know everything about you, especially your faults. But should that level of openness carry into the public arena? I believe that it should in cases of extreme irresponsibility, and that certainly includes infidelity. When you have done something very hurtful to someone else, others -- especially those who care for you the most -- should know about it. Such exposure helps prevent a recurrence of the offense. Your closest friends and relatives will be keeping an eye on you�holding you accountable.

Many betrayed spouses are afraid that exposure will drive the unfaithful spouse further away. While it�s true that unfaithful spouses usually feel betrayed and angry when their affair is exposed, I regard that reaction as being part of the fog that most addicts experience. When the fog has finally lifted, and the source of addiction no longer has control, the value of exposure is usually conceded by the addict himself."
Exposure
Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 04:39 PM
Quote
No, we know it too. You are in denial. You are making serious strategic mistakes.

Strategy indicates that all situations are the same and can be dealt with in the same way. In know that you are far more knowledgeable on this than me, and that you are trying to help, but can it be so clear-cut that the affair will continue if nothing is exposed?

I can only go by what she has told me until now. She says she has learned a very harsh lesson, that she is now allergic to the attention of men. That she wants no contact with this OM ever again.

Is it so definite that the affair will progress further?

She tells me that she will submit to my choices, and if I decide that her and the kids should come back here she is willing to do that. Great you might say. But we have had this plan to move for 6 years now. I know that if she comes back she will be willing to make things work but how long before she wants to restart the plans? I'm not talking about the affair here, as that is something that only begun within the last 5 weeks; I am talking about our dream of building a business and a life together there.

I realise that I come across as very naive. My world has been blown apart only 6 days ago, and it is all a bit much to take in right now.

I appreciate all the comments and take what I can from ALL of them.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 04:47 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
[
Strategy indicates that all situations are the same and can be dealt with in the same way. In know that you are far more knowledgeable on this than me, and that you are trying to help, but can it be so clear-cut that the affair will continue if nothing is exposed?

Yes, it is clear cut because nothing has been done to stop the affair. When an affair is not stopped, it does not stop, it escalates. Unfortunately, that has been my observation from posting on this board for 10 years. Your wife's willpower did not stop the affair in the past and it won't in the future. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so keeping it a secret is to enable it.

Did you listen to Dr Harley's radio clip?
Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 05:02 PM
Quote
What is really scary is that this guy has been able to move in for the kill with your wife WITHIN one short month of your separation from her. He must be really smooth. This is a full boat emotional affair that just went physical. It will take much more than your wife's "WORD" to stop this train wreck.

That is what is so confusing to both of us. She cannot understand how she could allow herself to put her marriage of 10 years at risk for a man she barely knew and did not feel an attraction to when she first met him.

That is why, no matter how far-fetched it may seem, we are not ruling out the possibility of black magic being involved in this. When we were there together she was so powerful in her prayer life; up every morning at 05:00 to pray and worship. But after I departed she felt too tired, and too busy to pray. She was having to deal with the kids herself, as well as getting all official paperwork in order and trying to build a business network. She made excuses for not praying and left herself open to spiritual attack.

I read the article on exposure and do agree that in most circumstances exposing the affair is required to stop it progressing. But it talks of the risk of driving the WS away. My wife is already on the other side of the world, feeling lonely and alone. If her family were now to turn on her and attack her for her actions, what will this do to her? Won't this drive her into the arms of the OM? I don't know this guy, she knows very little about him herself, so exposing his part in this is not really an option.
Posted By: Pepperband Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 05:06 PM


Quote
That is why, no matter how far-fetched it may seem, we are not ruling out the possibility of black magic being involved in this.
faint


And ???? Then what?
How will placing the blame/responsibility for your wife's decisions on "black magic" protect your marriage in the future?

Posted By: Pepperband Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
She cannot understand how she could allow herself to put her marriage of 10 years at risk for a man she barely knew and did not feel an attraction to when she first met him.

Quote
If her family were now to turn on her and attack her for her actions, what will this do to her? Won't this drive her into the arms of the OM?
Quote
the possibility of black magic being involved in this


Look at these quotes.
What you are saying is illogical.

WW is not really attracted to OM.
Black Magic is responsible, not WW.
The light of truth (exposure) will drive her to the arms of OM, to whom she is not attracted if it were not for "black magic".

Say, what?

It seems to me that if you really believe it was black magic that caused WW to fall for OM, you'd leap at the chance to give black magic the middle finger by virtue of EXPOSURE !
Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 05:20 PM
Quote
And ???? Then what?
How will placing the blame/responsibility for your wife's decisions on "black magic" protect your marriage in the future?

I am not trying to relieve her of any blame in all of this. She left herself open emotionally and allowed this other man in, no matter what tactics or tricks he may have used. She has to accept her role in this as well of course.

The main and most crucial factor in protecting our marriage and preventing any repeat is to get us reunited as soon as possible. We have been living a long-distance relationsgip these last 5 weeks and that has been proven to possibly be fatal to our marrage.

The sooner we are under the same roof the better. That is the plan I have at this point. That and prayer.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 05:21 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
I read the article on exposure and do agree that in most circumstances exposing the affair is required to stop it progressing. But it talks of the risk of driving the WS away. My wife is already on the other side of the world, feeling lonely and alone. If her family were now to turn on her and attack her for her actions, what will this do to her? Won't this drive her into the arms of the OM? I don't know this guy, she knows very little about him herself, so exposing his part in this is not really an option.

What exposure does is enlist the support of your family members and "lift the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery." Your wife is in an affair FOG. The more people who know, the more people to hold her accountable. Affairs are much harder to carry on when there are others around who know about it. Exposure will wake your wife up and give her some much needed support from friends and family.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
"The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight."

It is silly to say that it will "drive her into the arms of the OM" because the problem is that she has been in the arms of the OM. She is already there.

Quote
She cannot understand how she could allow herself to put her marriage of 10 years at risk for a man she barely knew and did not feel an attraction to when she first met him.

We are trying to help you understand that we DO understand how she allowed it. It was not black magic, it was a garden variety addictive affair. It is like a starving man who is suddenly faced with an all-u-can-eat buffet. The temptation to eat is overwhelming. Your wife is so addicted to this man that she allowed herself to enter an emotional affair, risking her marriage and her children's family. WHAT I AM TRYING TO MAKE YOU UNDERSTAND IS THAT THIS IS A POWERFUL ADDICTION.

Unless you understand that, you will not take proper precautions against this affair. PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR WIFE'S WORDS: "She cannot understand how she could allow [/b]herself to put her marriage of 10 years at risk for a man she barely knew and did not feel an attraction to when she first met him."

She cannot understand it because she has been overcome with a powerful addiction. The feeling was so powerful that she has risked her marriage, her children's family and everything dear to life. It will take much more than just her "word" to stop this train.

You should equate her to an alcoholic who sits in the bar looking at a glass of beer. He has the opportunity to pick up the drink and he wants it sooo bad. Eventually, that opportunity collides with a weak moment and he grabs that beer.

Your wife is the alcoholic in the bar right now. She is surrounded by people who have no idea that she is an alcoholic so they will do nothing to support her in her abstinence.

What we are trying to tell you is that you cannot count on her to stop this train wreck. An addict has no willpower. Your wife HAS ALREADY LOST THAT BATTLE. And not telling others leaves her VULNERABLE to spiritual assault. Your wife is under assault. The devil works under the power of DARKNESS. But you can halt him by turning on the lights!

Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. Ephesians 5:11 (New International Version, �2010)





Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by dutchcourage
I can only go by what she has told me until now. She says she has learned a very harsh lesson, that she is now allergic to the attention of men. That she wants no contact with this OM ever again.

Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Won't this drive her into the arms of the OM?

This is contradictory.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 05:30 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
The sooner we are under the same roof the better. That is the plan I have at this point. That and prayer.

Hope is not a plan. And no plan is a plan to FAIL. You are making critical, strategic mistakes, DC. frown

We are people who have saved our marriages using these tactics. Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist who has saved thousands of marriages over 40 years. He will tell you that keeping her affair a secret is to ENABLE the affair. What you are doing is allowing the affair to thrive and grow since there is no plan to stop it, OTHER THAN THE WORD OF AN ADDICT WHO OPENLY ADMITS SHE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND HOW SHE ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN. crazy

Surely you can see how foolhardy this "plan" to do nothing is? If you cannot, WE CAN.

Originally Posted by Dr Willard Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders
"Exposure is very likely to end the affair, lifting the fog that has overcome the unfaithful spouse, helping him or her become truly repentant and willing to put energy and effort into a full marital recovery. In my experience with thousands of couples who struggle with the fallout of infidelity, exposure has been the single most important first step toward recovery. It not only helps end the affair, but it also provides support to the betrayed spouse, giving him or her stamina to hold out for ultimate recovery."
Posted By: TheRoad Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 06:01 PM
This guy is more worried about starting a business down there then moving his WW away from the OM.

We know where his priorities are.
Posted By: Brits_Brat Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 06:03 PM
Dutchcourage,

I am assuming from your user name that you are in NL. By any chance do you work for a large Anglo-Dutch company? If so, are you being transferred to the South American country or quitting your job to move there and start a new life? I am asking this because I may be able to offer some unique insights.

Regards,

BB
Posted By: EllenG Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 06:26 PM
For a woman caring for 5 children, making the opportunity to get together with an affair partner takes thought and coordination. The kids have to be out of the house, or asleep, the WW and OM have to be quiet and sneaky, and she has to be willing to face the kids the next morning with this secret. Even her relationship with the kids is being damaged, because shameful secrets stops loving communication.

I agree with the others, that exposure is necessary, and the kids are your most influential potential allies. If she truly wants to avoid more contact with the OM, then she should surround herself with the kids. The 10 year old can be with her until bedtime, then she can have a couple of the small ones share her bed. Heck, it can be hard for a married couple to finagle enough time and privacy for sex with five kids in the house. If she stops plotting to get the kids out of the way, her opportunity for adultery diminishes. She should be accountable to you, and to the kids, for her behavior.

Do you see the point, that she has been actively making opportunity for alone time with the OM? It is not something that keeps happening "by accident".
Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 07:28 PM
BB

I am in the NL. No, I don't work for a large Anglo-Dutch company. No I am not being transferred, I am quitting my job to start a new life over there.

I could use your help and insight whichever way.
Posted By: dutchcourage Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 07:33 PM
What gives you the right to pass judgement on my motives and actions based on a couple of messages on an internet forum? Everyone else on here has at least had the decency to offer me advice and encouragement.

Posted By: MelodyLane Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 07:44 PM
That was uncalled for, TheRoad...
Posted By: ForeverHers Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 09:53 PM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Thank you so much ForeverHers. Your words are exactly what I need to hear right now.

I believe I have been complacent with my marriage and have not thought to cover my wife in prayer, as it seemed so natural that we would be together forever.

It is now I am beginning to realise that our marriage has been brought about through God's grace, and that only through His grace will it be reconciled.

The funny thing is my prayer life has become so much better, and I feel so much closer to God since this happened.

We definitely need marriage counselling and that will be one of the first things to arrange when I get over there. Would you recommend a specialist marriage counsellor or it is more important for the counsellor to be a Christian, although not necessarily specialised in relationships?

I wholeheartedely agree with you statement that forgiveness of my wife is a MUST. How can I expect to be forgiven if I cannot forgive others. My wife knows I have forgiven her already. The last thing I would want is for her salvation to be at risk. That is more important to me now than even our marriage.

Thank you brother.

**EDIT***


God bless.
FH
Posted By: Brits_Brat Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/27/10 10:49 PM
Dutchcourage,

I asked because I work for the big Anglo Dutch Company in a pretty senior role and in a position to help if you worked for that company. Since you do not, my only advice to you is, if your wife has family in NL and you are Dutch, I would move your wife and family back to NL and get her as far away from OM as geographically possible. If, in the future, she again suggests moving back to South America, you tell her the answer is no, it is non-negotiable and if she wants to remain married to you, she has to forego moving to South America - it is a consequence of her actions. Anywhere even on the same continent as OM is too close.

Regards,

BB
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/28/10 12:57 AM
Originally Posted by dutchcourage
Quote
What you are facing is a situation where this affair is very likely to escalate unless you stop it. Once it goes to this next level, she will be looking to replace you. Which will be easy to do because you are not there. Do you want this man to live there and raise your kids? That is NOT an unlikely outcome, but a common one.

Really? She has told me she has had no contact with him since it happened. She says I am the only one for her and that she is living under Grace at this moment, because she knows that to now willfully disobew God will lead to her going to hell.

I know that this may sound ridiculous and crazy to people here, but she had been warned before anything started about the dangers of men using black magic to get women to sleep with them. There are a lot of spiritual forces out there that we do not understand. Black magic is very powerful where she is, and is practised by many people. I am not saying that this is what has happened, but it remains a possibility.

She was warned of this by her family, and has received the same message from the Christian counsellor she is seeing. It happens more often than we would like to think. The men prey on vulnerable and lonely women and use potions to control or pacify them.

Am I in denial? Am I just making excuses for her? Only God knows.

Dutch, are you kidding me??? You are actually BUYING THIS???
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: How can I trust her again? - 11/28/10 01:03 AM
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Strategy indicates that all situations are the same and can be dealt with in the same way.


Really? cool Show me where strategy says that all situations the same. That is totally wrong.
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