Hello everyone. I am not new to this forum, I read and sought advice 3 years ago when my husband had an affair with a woman at work. To make a long story short, we reconciled and have been, what I thought, on the right path for the last 3 years. However, last month he began having an affair with a woman we have known from a social club we belong to. My husband does have a drinking problem(history of family alcoholism) and spends a great deal of time in the "club". I do not drink, therefore spend almost no time there. This woman's father was the president of the social club, a heavy drinker and was dying (he has since past).My husband drove her to the hospital from the club a little over a month ago (they were both drunk!)and have been having the affair ever since. She & two daughers were living for 8 years with a nice guy who was like a father to the girls, and treated her very well (house, car, trips, money)(but he wouldn't marry her). My husband is planning on moving into the same apartment complex at the beginning of next month after Christmas. My older son is over 18, living at home and doesn't have a really good relationship with his father. Our youngest son, 15, is devistated. I beleive in marriage, I beleive that "what GOD has joined together, let no man put asunder". I am torn. I don't know given this is the second affair in 3 years and I now know his drinking and his problems are HIS problems, should I let him move out and find himself? She is an alcohlic and takes all kinds of mental health and pain medication. I know I will be fine emotionally. I am a deeply spritual person and have great faith in God. I am worried financially. I have applied for child/spousal support and do work full time and go to college. I am worried that if he continues to live here(sleeping on the couch) and stays with her on week ends(her kids go with bio-dad)sleeping with her and partying/acting like a newlywed he is getting the best of both worlds. I should mention he works shift and only sleeps here when he "can't" be at her place, here maybe 2-3 times a week.I should mention that I took him back 3 years ago rather too quickly, there was no genuine remorse, never even said he was sorry. I do love him still, but I don't know if I should try again. Even as I type this, he is over her apt helping her hang pictures. Is there any hope? Is it better to have them stay or leave on their own? He saw a divorce attorney and won't file because it's too expensive. My heart is broken again, but I don't let him know that. I really, really, really don't know what to do. Sorry for the long post, but I feel lost and alone. Thanks everyone for just listening to me. MD

His drinking is an active addiction. The MB won't work until he has taken care of that issue -- and it sounds like he has no interest in repairing that problem.

I think you need to put him out and let his problems be his problems.

Expose to the boyfriend. He needs to know that this woman is taking advantage of him.

Then seperate yourself. Go to Plan B and cut yourself off from him entirely.

MD, sorry you are back here. Unfortunately, recovery is not possible with a practicing alcoholic which is why you find yourself back in the same boat. There was never any plan of recovery. Staying with him will do nothing other than tear you down emotionally and physically.

Plan A is not recommended with an alcoholic because it is impossible to meet the needs of an alcoholic. They do not have normal emotions and simply use Plan A as a way to exploit and abuse you.

I would try get him to move out ASAP and change the locks. After he is moved out, go into an airtight Plan B and expose the affair wide and far. Tell the OW's dad, tell everyone so there is no misunderstanding about what led to your break up. This way, your H and his skankho will not be welcomed in many social circles.

In your Plan B letter, make one of your conditions that he stop drinking for life and enter an ongoing program of alcohol recovery. Otherwise this is hopeless.

I will just warn you that when you do kick him out and go into a dark Plan B, he will probably go crazy. He is very dependent upon you. But it will be in his best interests for you to RESIST any contact from him. He has to hit a rock bottom in order to want to change.

Just prepare for him to try very hard to manipulate his way back. You will hear lots of promises that go something like this: "I am seeking," "I am trying" "I will try to...." "I am working on..." They are masters at manipulation, so you cannot ever go by their words. You must always go by his ACTIONS.

Don't accept anything less that complete and total sobriety for 90 days before you even consider reconcilation discussions.

your husband is an alcoholic...no amount of marriage builders is going to fix any relationship as long as there's a spouse with an addiction.

i understand your conviction in regard to your marriage vows...growing up my dad was an alcoholic, although a functioning one...my mother never wavered and stood by him for the better part of 22 years...my mother was able to spend 16 years with a sober husband until she passed a few months ago...BUT my mother didn't have to deal with affairs...

the only hope is that he's going to have to get sober first and realize what he's doing to you and his marriage...my advice is to expose this affair...file for a divorce, go into plan B and pray that God will somehow intervene...he's abandoned you...trust in God and He lead you...either the marriage will be restored or in time He will open a new door for you...it's going to be tough, b/c you still love him, but you have to let him go for awhile...so surround yourself with a good support group...

When you go into Plan B, be sure and designate a hard [censored] intermediary who won't let him con his way through and who will pledge to remain neutral.

Then, if he does sober up and wants to discuss reconciliation, come here and tell us what he proposes. Several of us here are recovered alcoholics and see right through the smoke and mirrors. WE will know if he is sincere.

Setting the bar high on your husband could save his life!!

Egg-zack-lee. Immediate Plan B, and exposure.

Since you set the bar too low last time, and the two of you never truly recovered, he's not automatically a serial adulterer. Without addressing the alcohol problem, and him being on board with EP's and leading your R, you never even had a chance.

Let me be very clear: your ONLY chance of R at this point is to block him from every aspect of your life, and set the bar for his return EXTREMELY high. You'll need to see actions demonstrated over time, not just vague promises that never come to fruition.

I'm so sorry you're back, but glad you knew right where to come.

Thank you for replying. The boyfriend does know. He caught her in their bed 4 years ago with another guy and things were not all-right with them. He basically threw her out, but did help her move (along with my husband! all three of them, how weird!)I have talked to him on a few occasions. I think he feels like I do, enough of the boozing and disrespect? He is emotionally tied to her children and was close to her family though. The affair is already exposed, it pretty much was exposed from day 1 with them.They told all their drinking buddies. I told all his family and so did he. THEY EXPOSED IT! THEY are both in love and don't care who knows or what the consiquences are. Although they hid it from their partners and lied totheir partners about it! Obviously they don't care who gets hurt.I Have called her and spoken to her, as she was a friend (friend? friend? yeah right!)She claims her kids are doing very well and enjoying their new life! I know the alcoholism is bad and although he is a "fun" drunk(think goodtime charly with a harley) that is not a lifestyle I want or enjoy nor do i want our children copying. I unfortunatly live in a community property state, and cannot change the locks on the door. Been to legal and not a good idea for wife to file for divorce, there is an 18 month wait period after filing before house and property can be sold if contested(where I live with children-1 under 18). Until then legal husband is responsible for legal wife. They want to marry? they will have 18 months from the date of his filing. If it is TRUE love, then it can wait-right? I've been waiting for the past 3 years for my husband to "commit" to THIS marriage. Just one more Q: If i just want to vent or update what's going on (may help someone else, you never know)should I continue to post under this thread, start a new thread, post under my name only? How do I do that? THanks everyone! MD

It is not illegal in any state in this union to change your locks. You can kick him out and change your locks today! If he has a problem then the onus is on HIM to go get a court order to get back in. So far we have never had a WS who wanted to go before a judge and explain WHY the locks were changed in the first place.

In one such case in the UK, board member DRDMD's wife complained to her atty about the locks being changed. His atty simply replied with his statement to her atty AND IT WAS QUICKLY DROPPED. His WW claimed she wanted to get in so could collect things, so they told her to submit a list and it would be setting in the garage for her.

I am not so sure about him being dependent upon me. For what? Emotional needs - met by her. Money - he controls it all. Sex - her, again. Place to stay - his own, or her apt.I really don't think he's dependent on me for ANYTHING! I must add that he went and his phone taken off our family plan and put on his own acct so I couldn't snoop on phone records, uses computer at work and basically has abondoned his family. He said he doesn't like anything to do with our home/neighborhood and wishes it could be sold tomorrow. THIS from the man who chose where we would live and took such pride in his home. As far as him quitting drinking a little back story: His father was a MEAN drunk (from what little I have been told)and terrorized his family. His dad quit drinking 20 years ago, but his personality only slighty changed. co-dependent mother. His mother had an affair with a co-worker 17 years ago which resulted in father relocating through work to another state. Mother followed, they are still together. He has medical problems and she is self-righteous, bible quoting, bitter old woman. My husband doesn't think he has a problem because he is not mean or violent and doesn't drink hard liquor. My husbands state of mind seemed to change very quickly when his father recently had surgery and I started a new higher position job. I think he looked at his mom and dad and saw what an unhappy life they really have, and how much unhappiness it has produced for everyone in the family(there was a first marriage for dad w/children) and he didn't want that.He's told me twice that he just can't see us staying the way we are for another 20 years. I agreed,the first time,agreeing thinking I was agreeging for the BOTH of us to work on this marriage - NOT ONE OF US LEAVE FOR ANOTHER! WHen he said it again yesterday, I was kind of taken off guard. BTW, changing the locks, couldn't happen, kids would just let him in when I'm at work, they still want him in their lives. It doesn't bother me when he's here, I just feel like I'm in limbo when he is.

Are you going to do a MB Plan, or one of your own design?

Choose.



Depending on you to have weak boundaries.

Think outside the box to get him to leave. Do your very best to brainstorm this.

If that fails, far better for you to leave, even with all the many potential consequences, legal and otherwise, than to stay and suffer a potentially catastrophic emotional breakdown.

You and your health come first. That said, there is usually a way to make this work that involves him leaving, not you.

He is dependant on you. He just doesn't realize it. If WH is a boozer and OW is a boozer it's only a matter of time before he hits bottom. When he does he will then realize how dependent he was on you for the only thing that got him this far in life...YOUR STABILITY AND DEVOTION. That realization will take a while and may or may not compell him to stop drinking. In the meantime, dark plan B. When the realization occurs and he comes crawling back be very careful and stay in plan B unless you get a commitment to absolutely no contact and no alchohol. If you can wait for that...good. Just keep on following the great advice the vets will give you. If you can't or you don't think it's worth the risk...move on.

That is easily resolved. Tell them NOT TO. If you are going to go into Plan B he should never be in the house. He can pick the kids up and take them elsewhere.

If he doesn't bother you when he is in your house and is in active affair, then what is the point of all this? Why not just conintinue to enable him while he carries on his affair?

Thank you all. He did get an apt. Moving Jan 2. Same apt complex as her. Funny thing is he didn't think of his minor child in all this (the other is over 18 but still @ home). WHen I asked him about sleeping arrangements he thought I meant with HER!!!LOL!!!(their thinking process really is screwed up, huh?) He was shocked that he will have his son for weekend visits. MY WH only gets one week-end off a month, and guess what? THAT will be the weekend of visitation.And I will stipulate NO drinking during that weekend. He had no idea. As if he would get this apt and just shuck all responsibilities to his kids. On his weekends off now (he actually gets Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun & Mon off) he pretty much does what he wants with the nights ending in getting drunk at the social club, not anymore.
I am planning on going dark. When I said it doesn't bother me he's in house I guess what I mean it kind of feels like were a family, but were not really, are we? I KNOW that. It's hard to let go and see someone ruin their life. I know I have to in order to save the marriage.
Christmas being so close, don't want any bad memories for the kids. My WH hates the holidays, dad always ruined it for him & sister, no money but lots of booze around.
THANK you all for letting me understand what you meant by depending on me. I guess you all are right (aren't you guys always right?!)he is depending on me to weak. It's funny, but I think because this is the second time around I won't be. I kinda know what to expect. I have a hard road ahead. THankfully I won't be alone. You all & GOD. I really think that's enough for now.

Be sure and get it in writing that there are to be no overnight guests of opposite sex while your child is with him for visitation.

THANK YOU!! I forgot about THAT ONE! WH just stopped on way to work to talk to oldest son about getting a car (his engine blew on the old heap we had given him). Already started with the "I don't have any money" stuff. Meanwhile I know he HAS money, spending it on her I'm sure. Ho's aint cheap (at least that's what I hear, would't know since I'm a L-A-D-Y!)

I hope you aren't waiting until after the holidays to file. Strike now while he isn't expecting it and before HE has he chance to file.

I filed for divorce the day I busted my now XWH. My attorney filed for an emergency hearing for temp support but it still took about 3 weeks to get a court date. I was a SAHM with a 9 year old. The night before the hearing he and I worked out a temp agreement that was VERY much in my favor...he didn't want to go in and have the judge hear the sordid details....I didn't beg or plead...I just told him what I needed to continue to run the house and take care of our son...stressed that it was only temporary until the divorce was final....and told him we could avoid the hearing the next day if he would just go to my attorney's office and sign our agreement. He did it. 6 months later he had an attorney and went into court with little shame and got a better settlement than he deserved....but I had 6-8 months of little changing in my life and our son's life.

If he is really leaving....it will probably be easier and better if you file AFTER he moves out. Just go see your attorney and get your ducks in a row....play it cool---don't let your WH know...and then BAM! Hit him.

Filing for D, if you do that, doesn't mean that you have to hurry through it. It does protect you, and you can take your sweet time. If you so choose, you can also drop the proceeding if WH earns his title of recovering addict, former wayward.

Sorry to see that you are back here...

Have you read HNHN yet? You will see that you do meet many of his needs and she meets some. When you plan B, the OW has to meet all of WH's needs, which of course is impossible as the BS's aren't replaceable!

Most likely you meet the needs of family, domestic stability, counts on you to take care of the kids.

Don't accept crumbs when he feels like showing up in the home, you deserve more! If he has a problem with drinking, do you think you enable him? Looks like from this view from the top that you probably do. Then it wouldn't take a stretch to say that if you did that with the drinking, you are enabling his A.

Own your part and try to be strong. It is going to take bravery, strength and resolve for you to try to save this...otherwise you end up back here again, or worse, emotionally broken down...it is hard, but everyone here will help support you!

Take care,

ba

Yes, I have been an enabler...and a co-dependant. I have read every book printed, I swear, on alcoholism.This kind of life is not easy.
I have been to an attorney. child support/spousal support hearing is set for Jan 6th. In my state, which is communal property, it is actually in the wifes favor NOT to file, as she loses the family home (must be sold or bought out by equity by one or other spouse[which I cannot afford to do]), all health insurance benefits and any survivor benefits(in case of death).WHEN he files(he has seen an attorney also)I can contest it, there is a 24 month wait period until procedings can begin. Once the child support/spousal support is set in motion he has 30 days to vacate home if he is still here. and find appropriate housing for him and children(for visits)or he will be fined per day and could be charged with contempt of court. So he will have to be out. I cannot make him pay any appropriate housing bills (electric, water, cable, etc.) only a small % of the mortgage. Child support is taken out of his pay and sent to Domestic Relations and they foward onto me, so I don't have to worry about him not paying it...unless he quits or loses job, then after so many months in arears he goes to jail.CS/Spousal & %of MTG will eat up half his pay. He is having a royal fit because he claims he cannot live off what he will have left over! The state I live in has a legal code for support and the law is the law, poor baby! I have heard of men in this state being forced to move back in with parents because they were left will only a few hundred dollars a month to live on after support payments! Plus he is still responsible for ALL medical/dental/eye insurance claims for my two boys and I. Poor baby! I think its time to have all my teeth capped!LOL, just taking care of ME for a change.
Listening to Sara Evans song STRONGER, it really lifts my spirits. I know I am strong. STRONGER. I also listen to the old Helen Reddy song I AM WOMAN-love it!
mitzie

Latest goings on. WH has all bank accounts in his name only. He took me off everything about 10-12 years ago do to my "faulty" mishandling of money and is very selfish and secretive about money. I don't have enough time or room to post about his money issues. Lets just say, his money is his money to spend on himself and everyone else be dammed. Yesterday was a rather tense day because he was saying how he didn't have any money to give me toward Xmas. He gave me a about 1/10th of what is usually spent on the holidays. Last night I called the bank and was able to get access to our(his)account. seems he got a check of some sort, I beleive it was through work for over 3grand! it was a direct deposit then immediatly removed it. This was the day after he didn't come home or call and basically changed his lifestyle. When confronted with this information this morn, he ballistic. Screaming and yelling (meanwhile kids are sleeping)about I don't know what the hell I'm talking about, Where did I get such access to such information, blah, blah, blah. I just shook my head and said, "it will all come out in court. you can't just take money away from your family and hide it",Your Royal Highness.(I have begun to call him that in my mind because, although he looks nothing like the King Henry 8, he seems to have the same attitudes of royalty and I think he'd like to just chop my head off and be rid of me!)Needless to say, he kept on it, insisting that he had no money, went as far as to show me OTHER bank account balance and how he took X amt of money out to give me for the Xmas stuff. I'm just sitting there calm, cool, collect, not getting into it with him. No fuel for the fire, as my MaMa used to say. Anyway, When I told him he better give me money for groceries, he went on and on about that, finally giving me a check and shorting me $100!!!He wants to know where all my money is going, I just tell him attorny fees, to which Your Royal Highness replies, "what am I supposed to do, I can't afford an attorney". Keeping a Ho aint cheap, can't have a Ho AND Attorney. Unless they are ONE IN THE SAME

You are sounding much more powerful, Mitzie. No fuel for the fire, good advice, indeed. When you're not doing a useless Plan A because of addiction, for the few days it takes to line stuff up to go into Plan B, your main role is to avoid lovebusters.

Sounds like you're doing a very good combination of that, and calm, loving confrontation.

Neak, just read your story & you give me such hope! I am so very glad to be back on here. I feel stronger, almost as if I have the army of God behind me or something. Oh, I still have those, "how will I ever take care of myself and the kids?" moments but then realise I HAVE been for the last 18 years, being married to an alcoholic is just like being a single parent, lonely and stressful. I feel less stressed now that I know that Plan B isn't too far off in the future. For now I will hold my tongue(I let it lose in the car when I'm alone)and be a good Plan A'er. THanks for everyones support. It does help. Mitzie

God will take care of you, whether in R or D. He will faithfully watch over you even when your own husband leaves you. You don't have to worry!

I have been perusing the boards on BS of WS who are alcoholics/addicts, and I've got to tell you, it all seems bleek to me. I don't really see much hope in saving this marriage if my WH is enabled by his friends and family to continue using and refuses to beleive he even HAS a problem.

Does Plan B work to bring them to rock bottom? I don't see how if OW is also an alc & pill poppin' drug addict(along with other various "illegal substances"), and I suspect he is using drugs also( he could get fired from his job-but that's his choice). Wouldn't she just feed into his addiction, helping him stay just enough above the hitting bottom stage?

Last night he stayed at OW apt(her kids were away)and I don't expect to see him until Sunday night (when her kids come back). I would like to start on Plan B now and go dark,since I rarely see him/talk to him anyway,but don't know if that's possible, given the fact that he flip/flops between here & there (until Jan 2 when his apt is avail). I rarely see him as he works shifts, is at OW house or out drinking. It's almost no different a life as before the bomb dropped except now there is OW & threat of divorce.

I get so sad when I think of what he has done.

I am reading Adult Chidren of Alchoholics right now. I bought it mainly because I wanted to see what effect his drinking was having on the kids. He himself is a ACOA and I now realize because of the issues of growing up in violent/alc. home he was never really 100% present in this relationship anyway. The book does give hope though. It says that when a recovering ACOA alcoholic loves, their love is 100%. The main point being, recovering.

I am hoping because I am more open and honest about his drinking with the kids then his mother was, that they have a better understanding of what alc. does. We talk openly, honestly and I LISTEN to what they have to say on the subject. My oldest DS holds nothing back-even when talking to dad. SOmetimes it borders disrespect, but the things he says to him are truthful and he doesn't say it to be disrespectful. They are allowed to show and talk about their feelings. Of course now that they are teens it's like trying to pull teeth out of them-all the more reason I think they should be allowed to have a voice. Sometimes we talk about the A.For the record: I DO NOT discuss personal information with them, they are not my confidants. Sometimes they have questions about dad and what's going on. No one wants to stay on the subject too long but at least it's outhere and they know they can.

I'm off to work. I try to keep my mind focused (very stressful job-need my mind). Anyone have any ideas on how to stop intrusive thoughts when your at work? Also comments on the Plan B stuff would be appreciated.

Thank ya much. Mitzie

I

Love this Neak.

Mitzie,
I love your sig...

When you feel you are powerless, that just means that someone ELSE has the power. TAKE THE POWER BACK!

That is how I feel only I think I would change it to.

When you feel you are powerless, that just means that you have allowed someone ELSE take the power. TAKE THE POWER BACK!

I am in the process of taking the power back.

You are correct that the odds are not nearly as rosy when an A is combined with any sort of substance abuse. However, Plan B will give you the very best of those smaller odds of R.

Probably the OW also being an addict will keep him from crashing longer than it would take otherwise, however such an evil and foundationless excuse for a relationship is almost certain to implode eventually.

I would recommend the full 2 years of Plan B, and if you are so inclined you can always go a while longer before moving on with your life. (Or not - that's ok, too.)

Plan B is hands down the best thing for you, and the only thing that even might get through to WH eventually. Even if he never recovers, you will. Your kids will. That has to be your top priority.

A few months from now, you won't be able to believe you made it in the days before Plan B.

Regarding the thoughts popping up at work, I would pick something, whether a beautiful song or a Bible verse, and every time those thoughts come into your head, immediately put the other already-picked-out thought in its place. It may take a couple days or a couple weeks, but your brain will make new pathways to the good thought, and bypass the others.

Mitzie, you are right, it is very bleak. The purpose of Plan B, though, is to protect you from him. Sometimes it can cause a WS to hit bottom, but there are no guarantees. But you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by going into Plan B.

Most alcoholics do not die sober. It is bleak.

Back from a busy night at work. Mind didn't wander as much since we were busy. Got some great compliments on my hairstyle (did it in a "Farrah Fawcett" do today)and that lifted my spirits. One guy even told me I was beautiful. Much needed after feeling like the UGLY MONSTER in the house.

Before I left, WH stopped by on his way to work. Of course it was after sleeping at her house. I asked how the memorial party went(OW's father passed last week)and he said it was great fun. I'm sure it was your royal highness. He said he got drunk and passed out. WHen I asked where he said on the couch. When pressed for whose couch, he finally said "K". Why is he so reluctant to tell me this stuff? He knows I know, he knows the kids know, criminy, he knows the whole freakin town knows, I just don't get it. He did tell me the apt is a go and should be moving Jan 2nd. I asked him if he was glad, he shrugged.I asked again, he shrugged. I told him that was not an answer and then said I guess. I asked him why won't he just tell me the truth, asked him if he thought he was hurting my feelings by being happy, to which he replied, "yes". So in other words, he's worried about my feelings NOW? NOT WHEN HE WAS F*&^ing the town skanker? Oh my, how wonderful of him to care!(insert sarcasm).
What I said next, I don't know that I should have, let me know if this is out of step with plan A. " Everything we have, we've worked for,raising our children,All the hopes and dreams ruined because of sex. Our kids will never right all because you wanted to f*&k someone else"

SIDE NOTE: I am NOT a person who uses profanity in any regard,I think it's a poor way to get your point accross.I couldn't help myself by this point though.

His reply to that was "it's not about that." What is it about Your Royal Highness, LOVE?

He did notice my new hairdo and walked in the bedroom as I was changing and saw me in my underthings. I must say, I looked pretty HOT in just that bra & pany. I noticed him standing in there a bit too long catching glimpses. That was one of my WH emotional needs-sex-and lots of it. Well sometimes I get TIRED, just TIRED Your Royal Highness,nothing to do with you personally.

One last thing then I'm off to bed. He was folding his laundry (yes I asked him do his own laundry now, hoping he asks "K" to do it. She won't I guess)and I walked by and said "so this is the end then. Your moving for sure on the 2nd of January?" His reply "seems that way. Why, would you take me back after this?" I did not turn around to face him, but just spoke softly and said, "I don't really know Your Royal Highness."

Had an UH HUH moment at work when I realized that I am addicted to him. I need that 'fix' of him. It makes me happy to see his truck in the driveway when he pulls up. I am all smiles when I see him. And I realized to what was meant by him being dependent upon me. He NEEDS to be part of family unit.Something he never got in childhood. He has basically gone dark on me. From a few days before the first time they were together he stopped all text and phone calls to me. I just ignored it because I was busy or somthing else but never paid much attention to it until now. I now want him to be as addicted to this family and ME as I am addicted to him. I also realize he is addicted to the skankho "K". Plan B must work cause he unknowingly using it on me...and it's driving me BONKERS/NUTS/CRAZY!!!

Too tired to write anymore venting. THanks for listening & sorry if my spelling is off. Really, Really TIRED. Wouldn't be able to complete His Royal Highness emotional need tonight, that's for sure! Mitzie

If you even consider meeting that particular EN, PLEASE protect yourself to the same level as if he was a prostitute.

Loving confrontation is fine, and even encouraged, while in Plan A. Just be careful not to go overboard. On the one hand, you don't want to waste a lot of energy on a useless Plan A, on the other, you don't want to give him too much stick and no carrot for these last few days before you go into Plan B.

Yes, you're addicted to him, and that's something you will need to face and conquer in Plan B. However, the only reason he seems like he's not similarly involved is because he's calling the shots. If he wants to play with his Mitzie-doll he picks her up and plays with her. If he doesn't, he puts her down and forgets about her for a while.

You are likely to be surprised how much that dynamic changes when you go into Plan B. Which is why you need to be very thorough in blocking his avenues of contact at the very beginning.

Are you still planning to go into PB on Jan 2? If he doesn't leave as planned, are you prepared to kick him out?

Thanks Neak for all your advice. All of you here are so WISE!

Yes I will Plan B in Jan. He will HAVE to leave due to court hearing on 6th.

I cannot seem to find thread that is specific to Plan A and Plan B. Can you post where it is located, or how to find it. I need to read it again, as my brain is hazy and cannot remember all that needs to be implemented in both.

BTW i don't think I will meeting THAT particular EN right now. The thought of him & HER-YUCK!! The sad thing is
for days before he told me he wanted out of relationship with me I was very much meeting his ENs. What was that all about?! The last time(met his EN) I remember him saying "We shouldn't have done that" which I thought was very strange, then next day...BOMB DROP!

Thanks, and don't forget to point me in direction of Plan A & B.

Mitzie

Read through this section if you haven't already:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

Also read Peppberband's The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A, and maybe someone else knows where a good Plan B thread is. If not, I can look, I just don't have these bookmarked like some of the sensible and efficient people here do.

Is there any post/thread/site that theorizes or medically knows of what goes on in the mind of a WS that abandons all he knows and holds dear in his life. Yeas I know about the seratonin/dopamine jibber-jabber but I'm asking psychologically.
I have read HNHN and that may explain emotionally why affairs start but my needs were not being met either and I did not choose to fall in love/sleep with another person. So what goes on?

My WH has pretty much placed himself on a Plan B with ME, although unknowingly. No contanct with ME or kids. I must state that my WH is the kind of person that once he decides he doesn't want you in his life, your pretty much gone. He has several friends and family members he has done this to. He has a 27 year old daughter whom he has not spoken to in 18 years(hears about her from HIS mother-her grandmother)and two grandchildren(through dau)that he never acknowledges nor has seen(they live several states away). When his dau was 3 he NEVER spoke to the girls mother again! And I mean NEVER! They had dau while still in HS.I have been with him 20 year and he has NEVER brought any of them up in conversation, not ONCE! He will answer questions if I ask, but they are quick and give no details.When pressed about xmas or birthday for dau & grandchildren it's always "do whatever you want" and he has a royal fit if I spend over a couple dollars on them! There are a lot of friends he has done this to also, although those friends were people who don't condone the me first-family last attitude he employs, but they were still very good friends for a long while until his drinking got to be more than social. I beleive this is what he doing with his children and me. He does not call/txt his boys, stops buy very quickly says a quick "hi" to whichever son is home gets what he needs and leaves, usually without a goodbye.

Plan B may work to help heal myself but honestly, knowing my WH and his "This is who I am I'm not changing" attitude, I don't really see him ever comming back. I don't see us ever being together again. It may or may not last with OW, but once he closes the door, he locks it. And we are being locked out.
I don't think he will ever want to stop drinking. As long as he can maintain a job and doesn't get arrested (he's moving 1 block from the social club he/OW patronize)he will continue to do what he wants.

Yes, he will have visitation, but DS is 15 and once DS turns 16 and drives/gets job he's not going to want to go over there. WH won't press issue either

He promised oldest DS he would help him get a car. Hasn't brought it up to him since. I think he has no intention on it.

Sorry, I'm having a bad morning. I'm just drained from everything that's going on. Last night I had crying breakdown after getting in an arguement with oldest DS over his language. I can't even say "wait till your dad hears about this" or "your father's not going to be happy about this" anymore, because there is no father figure in the house. I just broke down, not in front of them. Went in my room and cried so hard I couldn't catch my breath. What makes me angry is the WH seems to think this is okay? Well the OW THINKS it's okay. She has always said she had no problem being a single parent, her kids don't need a permanant dad in the house (well that's easy for you to say, OW, because you've always had some dude take care of YOU & your kids)Her kids dad wouldn't marry her, her live in BF of 8 years wouldn't marry her. His thinking is just like her's-askewed. She went as far as to tell me one time she would kinda be glad if her oldest daughter got pregnant(girl was around 16 at time)because she would help her raise it!!!IS THAT NORMAL THINKING!!??

As far as exposing to her family, they don't care. Her dad just died 2 weeks ago, her brother is an alcoholic who cheats on his wife and her mother is a co-dependent/enabler who thinks the relationship is fine as long as her daughter is happy.

Too much dysfunction around. I will welcome Plan B, it will give me some breathing room. I only hope my husband doesn't get fired. I have reason to beleive he called off again yesterday to be with OW.

Hi mitzie I know how you feel.
My WH is the same, when he closes a door it is closed for good. There are people he has not spoken to for years and years. He could go months without talking to his parents and syblins and if it was not for me who made the calls...he would have cared less about talking to them. And they were always nice to him...
He is able to hold a grudge with someone who has stepped on his toes for years.
He even told me: once I decide something that's that. I am done with this marriage
Mitzie...so be it. Look who are they with!! Your WH is certainly setting himself up with some unpleasant surprices down the road. The OW seems awful, terrible person.
Your WH only sees what he wants to see, it does not matter what she really is. He does not see her. He only sees a wonderful OW he is in love with.
The best thing we can do is to live a good life and forget about those losers. They really are losers, Mitzie otherwise they would not behave the way they do...
I have many bad days like yours but recently I told myself...look Atena, you WH likes to spend all his free time with the sort of people OW is. Would you spend even 5 minutes with OW? NOOO! But he does and that tells you who he is. A loser who gave up a nice family for nothing.
hugs and blessing

None of his problems are about you. None of them reflect in any way who you are.

The way I see it, one of two things is going to happen:

1) WH hits rock bottom, repents, and spends the rest of his life loving you and his children,

or

2) You go into Plan B (if he won't contact you so much the easier), and never again in your life (unless #1 takes place) have to deal directly with an unhealthy, damaged individual who doesn't care if they hurt you.

Either way, I promise you will be fine - better than fine - wonderful.

The only scenario that doesn't come with a happy ending for you is if you remain in contact with WH, who has a documentable illness and whose presence sucks out your life and peace.

You will have bad days, and that's ok. We've all been through them. Keep your eye on the goal, which is a happy, healthy, joyful you.

Thanks, atena. I just posted on YOUR page, how weird is that. I feel like we are two peas in a pod!

Yeah, you are right, but that does not make it easier. I do not beleive in divorce. My husband does not beleive in marriage. What to do, what to do?

My WH too, also has alway said, "once I get my mind on something, that's that" whether it be a new car, new cell, NEW WOMAN(apparantly!). His father is the same way. Of course his father was an alcoholic too. Did your WH drink?

It makes me sad, because I have all these memories, and I know the kids have all these memories and in the end that's really all we're left with, right. When I was little and my family was planning a trip or going to do something (even if it was to the grocery store) and one of us kids would ask what we were doing, my parents reply was alway "making memories". That's what parents are suppose to give their kids, happy memories, right? Not crappy unhappy ones. My WH doesn't have many happy memories that involve his family, so go figure, so making happy memories for his kids wasn't a priority.

Last year I had saved and saved and finally took the family on a carribean cruise. We extended the vacation to visit IL who have a winter home, and do some FLA sight seeing. 10 days of sun and fun, right? NOT REALLY. WH complained the whole time. WHO COMPLAINS ON A CRUISE??ESPECIALLY ONE YOU DIDN"T PAY FOR!!!???
Well, he did. This was this past spring, over Easter. All I heard up until and including the day I found out about the A, was how much money it cost and how he could have had a two car garage built for the money that was spent on the vacation. I told him that you can't put a price on a happy family vacation memory. To which he replied "That's stupid, we could have just went and stayed with my parents for a fourth of what was spent".
What a jerk.

I heard Marie Osmond on the Oprah show say in regards to her failed marriage. "You marry at the level of your self esteem."
I find that to be true. I also beleive that one falls in love at the level of their self esteem. That's why so many stay together or fall apart. My WH has NO self esteem. He is with a woman without any self esteem. They will stay that way together until one grows up in SE or on falls even lower. They may feed off each others low self worth. I always felt he thought I was too good for him, it was a weird feeling, he would always tell me I should find someone else who could make me happy. It wasn't economically speaking, it was more like "your a good person, I'm a bad person, we shouldn't be together." So now he's with a bad person.

My WH exact words!
Also during recent family vacations he was never happy, always in a bad mood...
We had also planned, after his first A, a formal cerimony where we will recommit our vows. He kept postponing it and postponing it.
Just before our separation he said it had been a long time since he loved me and that he let the relationship go too long. He said that after his first A he tried hard to have feelings of love for me again, but it never happened.
I too believe that he spent the 3 years between his 2 affairs looking for someone else all the time, till he found her right next door.
If they never really loved us for all those years it is fair to say they will not in the future. I think their feelings for us are gone for good.
But really, we are better off without them. We deserve a man who wants to be with us, who appreciates us and who would be overjoyed to be on vacation with us, not sulky and unhappy telling us all the time that they do not love us.
Who needs that? Yes, we must have had a very low self esteem to put up with that!
No more
Blesssing

R U sure you're not my doppleganger? Honest to goodness. Or rather, our WH are dopplegangers of each other. See what alcoholism does to children, it grows them into men like THAT. I worry about my sons.

off to work.

mitzie

I like how you pointed out what my life would be like if I stayed with WH. Very bleak and sad indeed. I think the biggest thing that helps me most is knowing that someday soon my two boys will have lives of thier own and fall in love and marry. I DO NOT want them to be the kind of husband to their wives that their father was to me, and his father before him was to his wife(s). I cannot stand here as a grown mature woman and let them think it is "OK' to treat women in this manner. I would be apaulled at either of my DS's if they did to their wives what has happened to me. I want them to respect women, respect me.

I still love the H that was my H before he became WH.

I hurt because I cannot beleive how quickly I was replaced in his life. One day he's here with me (well I now know this has been in deceit for about a month beforehand)being intimate, being 'us', thinking we're doing fine and then the NEXT day he's with her 24/7 and I'm out of his life? Helping her move into her apt, sleeping over, worrying about her upcomming surgery, basically being HER husband! Wanting to be friends with me, give me a break.

Last night I had an interesting chat with an older woman who's son was in rehab twice for drug addiction, now recovering for 10 years. To make a long story short, it seemed to me the BS life is no different then being involved with a drug addict. The lying, deceict, dissapearing acts, promises, promises broken, the fog babble, the blame game, manipulation, telling you what you want to hear, etc...is basically the same. Must we treat the WS as an addict? The addiction being the OP? Cutting the addict off completely from their "comfort zone" seems to work for some, but not all. I guess the best thing to do is prepare myself for "No Recovery".

Yes Mitzie, they are addicts. Basically your WH (like mine) had been looking for his other dose (OW) for the whole 3 years in between affairs. It is interesting to notice that 3 years is what also my H took between affairs.
My gist is that they never recovered the love for us after their first A, and that they kept fantasizing about OWs all the time. They put up a facade with us and plowed thru the years hoping for things to magically get better. Then when they did not, of course they blamed it on us again and finally found another soul mate, this time one that they could leave their family for, a needy b@tch who is as close to trash as possible but who needs their help.
Look, your OW is about to have surgery and is very very needy.
My OW has a health condition and 2 impossible kids who drive her nuts and needs lots and lots of help. So they feel important they feel OW really cherishes them and admires them, makes them feel like real men, really needed.
It boils down to that.
I think.
Blessing

aetna, seriously. I wish you lived by me so we could meet and commiserate! MY WH OW also has 2 impossible teens(girls) & she needs lots & lots help with(driving them around, and school problems ect. fiancially ect.)

She IS needy. Her dad just died, her BS was awful to her(not really, I know him), she has health problems, she has depression problems, she has, she needs,she can't...always drama with her.

But here is the thing. My WH is needy also. Not in the sense like her, but he has emotional needs that I don't think 20 OW could fix, even if they tried all at once! I tried to get help for us, for him. He went a few time until the IC told him what he didn't want to hear, that he was clinically depressed and needed some additional help. He told me to stop my psuedo psycobabble and leave him alone.

Who will help the two needy people? My guess is, since she calls her BS everyday(and he kind of wants her back)and heis stable and has put up with her crap before,it will him she will run back too. That'll be something to wait for.

Its funny you say your WH never recovered from the first A.I was just thinking the same for my WH. I let him back in too soon, his NC with the first OW ended because SHE didn't want to see HIM. She went back to her husband(and still with him-I know cause I checked her on Facebook!!LOL)and broke contact. He has been searching since. Come to think of it, the first OW was needy also, she thought she had throat cancer or something and had to have all these tests done, and she could die, blah, blah,blah. WH never seemed to care about my health issues and didn't want me ringing up medical bills!!

The OW's only family that I know of is her mother and brother. Her father passed away two weeks ago.

I was told that her mother doesn't really care and supports her dau no matter what. I beleive this information is a lie as to protect her mother because of father's death.

I feel OW mother should know what her dau is doing. That she gave her dau thousands of dollars to sign a six month lease on an apt that she is co-habitating (to an extent) with a married man while her granddaughters are also living there.

I do not want to call this woman as I do not have phone number and she just lost her husband of 50 years. She was also a codependent/enabler so I am sure is of frail mindset now.

I could use a public computer and write a letter anonymously? How would I phrase the letter?

My WH I'm sure will know it is me as I wrote letter to his work and exposed first A.

Although I do not beleive OW mother can control or stop her sleazy dau from doing what she is doing, I think she should be told.

Any thoughts?

thanks, Mitzie

Yes she needs to know everything.

Even though I know OW personally I cannot bring myself to say her name. When my WH says her name it makes me upset (I don't show it in front of him though).

I usually just say "her" as in "you said you were going where with her?"

If I use the names I would really like to use when speaking of her, like whore, [censored], homewrecker, slut, skank, skankho, ho, bar slut ect. is that a LB?

Just need to vent some. MIL called today. She wanted to know what was going on. My WH, her son, is very curt and mean on phone to mom & dad. She's worried about the kids. She realizes her husband(my FIL)was wrong to say what he said to me, but he had just had surgery and was in pain and having a bad day...whatever.

She cannot understand WHY her son is acting this way. Seriously? You raised him in an alcoholic home with a violent/mean alcoholic and you expect him to grow up normal?

Anyway, I told her that WH has cut me off from all communication with him. He is curt and quick on the phone with me also, even when discussing things for kids. I told her that when he closes the door he doesn't look back, that door is shut. She agreed and said she saw him do it with the mother of his oldest child(now27). He told her it was over and never spoke to her again! My MIL would pick her granddaugher up from the mother on a Friday and drop her back on Sunday. WH never had to interact with dau mother ever! Even to this day WH NEVER speaks of her, like she never existed, NEVER speaks of dau, like she never existed.

What causes people to be like that? Guilt? Immaturity? Sociopathic personality disorder?

When I asked WH yesterday if his moving day was going to be the 2nd of January, he said he was hoping for the 10th because he didn't know if he could afford it. What the heck? He's the one who brought up divorce, he's the one who comes over, does his laundry, goes on the computer here, spends a little time with the boys then leaves and sleeps at HER house! Does he think I'm just going to let it continue like that? He pays the bills and gets to do what he wants-like sleeping at her house?

The only good I could see comming from that would be being able to implement a good Plan A. But, he cannot be trusted. I think they would be making BIG plans together to screw me over. So I go dark in Plan B. So I never talk to him again. Will I die if I don't talk to him? Probably not. Will I grow as a person and get some self respect back? More than likely yes

Like I said before, I just have a hard time dealing with the fact that one day he's physcially here, acting like my spouse, and the next day he's THERE acting like HER spouse. That is weird. Like he's replaced me, but only with me that used to be me 20 years ago. Does that make sense? She acts now (even though she is 42 with two teen dau)like I used to act when I was in my 20's! I was a fun party girl. I didn't have any responsibilities, I was wild and free, WH and I had a lot of fun and a lot of sex. We were inseperable. It was majical and as a matter of fact we met early November(month out of when BOTH his A's started BTW)and by December we were madly in love.

Should I tell him this? Should I point this out to him, that he's just replaced me with me?

How does Plan B work if other person has totally shut the door on the relationship? It would seem to me better to have them stick around a month or 2 and try a Plan A?

Has anyone ever successfully come through a Plan B when other person is persistant on keepin BS away? I don't beleive absense make the heart grow fonder. I think absense make the heart forget.

Uhhh, Mitzie, given your husband's abandonment of his family, abdication of his responsibilities, and general behavior imitating a rabid goat:

LET'S CERTAINLY HOPE SO !

Stay strong, my friend. Better days are ahead.

"Let it go - this too shall pass", My mom used to tell me this ALL the time!

I hear it in my head a LOT now.

Wish my mom was still around, she gave great advice.

May not have my mom around, but I have all of you here on MB!

Love to you all.

How about just keeping it technically correct and call her "your adultery partner"?

He's stalling about moving out. Kindly and calmly tell him that you expect him to be out by the second. If he asks why, let him know, also calmly and kindly, that you refuse to continue to live with a man who is committing adultery, but that you know the 2 of you can be happy together once she is out of the picture, and he has dealt with his addiction.

He's likely to be very angry at being crossed, so do not allow yourself to be drawn into further argument. Simply repeat, "I expect you to be out of this house by Jan 2." Then walk away and do not engage in any form.

Two big "do nots":

1. DO NOT LET HIM CALL THE SHOTS OF WHEN HE WILL LEAVE. HE IS CHEATING AND ABUSING ALCOHOL, HE NEEDS TO MOVE OUT NOW. HE WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY STALL IF YOU LET HIM.

2. DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME ON PLAN A. THIS WILL ONLY HARDEN HIM IN HIS CURRENT COURSE BECAUSE HE HAS A SUBSTANCE ADDICTION IN ADDITION TO THE A. SIMPLY RUN A GOOD HOUSEHOLD AS YOU NORMALLY WOULD, AVOID LOVEBUSTERS, AND GET HIM OUT OF YOUR HOUSE.

My own recommendation is that you have him move out now, Christmas or no Christmas. His double addiction is crazy-making for you. Until you have some time and space to heal, you won't even begin to realize how damaged you are right now.

The sooner you get your time and space, the sooner you can begin to heal. That is what I want most for you.

NEAK, YOU GIVE THE BEST ADVICE EVER!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE A TV SHOW!

I have told him he should leave NOW. It's too weird for the three of us here with him popping in and out. He just says he has no where to go. I tell him, go stay with her. He says he can't. I ask why. He just says he can't. My guess is the kids will tell their dad that mom has a dude staying there and goodbye child support. Next time I tell him(prob today if I see him)I will drop that on him, I'm sure that's the reason. Well too bad. Of course he's been to an ATTY and knows he doesn't have to leave. I guess I could ask him to not drop by at all. He won't do that.

It should be interesting the week of Christmas he goes on 11pm-7am shift. He will sleep there, but where? On the sleeper sofa? She has 4 rooms, two are bedrooms, a living room and kitchen & bath. I don't see him getting much sleep. I always made sure the bed was made and the curtins drawn so it was nice and dark and he felt like he was actually going to bed. I would have a nice pot of coffee on when he woke up so he would feel like it was morning. That week we usually had breakfast for dinner nights, bacon/eggs, breakfast stuff. Betcha she won't do that!

***INSERT HERE: BROOKS & DUNN SONG: YOUR GONNA MISS ME*** boo hoo!


Yes he is stalling. I don't kid myself for one second that it's because he wants to stay. I know it's about money. Almost everything about the man revolves around HIS MONEY.

The one thing is now at night it is much calmer around here. Most nights I work pretty late, but it's nice to know that the boys don't have to see their drunk dad stumble in the door and I don't have to worry about him drinking and driving or worse having an A!(it's already out there!)

I'm off to see the dentist. Time to get my teeth capped while I still have insurance!!! SMILES EVERYONE! SMILES!

I believe the legal term is "paramour". That is how my lawyer defined her in the court documents. "(WH) has gone to live with his paramour, "POSOW name" at 0000 Bulls__t Drive, Loser, MN". It gave me a great deal of satisfaction to see her forever listed in court documents as the skankho she is. All I could think was, "Wouldn't her parents be proud!" (unfortunately I had no way to contact parents and friends for exposure).

It is not false modesty, but just the simple truth that I've been hanging out with the best for going on 7 years by now - some of it was bound to rub off.

Do you own your own home? Rent? It may be hard to get him out, but where there's a will there's a way. You leaving is the absolute last choice, when all else has failed.

There are plenty of things to try first.

WH took son to buy a car. Son & WH forgot license plate so returned home shortly after I did. Here is a recap of conversation that took place:

WH: I have to come back anyway to get some clothes (for work tomorrow)
ME: You should just get your clothes now, no need to come back here
WH: WHY? (in accusing voice)
ME: There really isn't any reason to come back
WH: Why? (accusing tone, like I'm up to something - Well, duh, PLAN B)
ME: You should probably just take all your clothes now. You should just live with her.
WH: (shakes head scrunches face)
ME: Really, why won't you just stay there until your place is ready?
WH: No (shakes head)
ME: Is it because she'll lose her child support
WH: She didn't lose her CS when she lived with BS that has nothing to do with CS
ME: (realizing this is corret) OH YEAH, your right. Then why won't you just stay there. It's just too painful for
me to have you here and then know that you go sleep with her. I really think you should just take your clothes
stay there until your place is ready.

He walks into bedroom, starts gathering his clothes for work tomorrow.

ME: You will never guess who I ran into while I was out. (told him who it was. A very dear friend who lives down the
road and belongs to the social club)WH: Yeah, what did she have to say
ME: Well not much and a lot. She said she thought you were doing a stupid thing (LB? shouldn't have told him that?)

Then I told him how really hurt I was. That I was just starting to trust him. He told me I wasn't. I asked him how long he
and OW were conspiring behind my back. He said he wasn't conspiring. I told him that I was his wife and I was not consulted
in his affair. I asked him if he fell in love with her on [night he never came home & took her to the hospital], he said no. I
asked him if it was when he had sex with her, he repied "NO!" He didn't say he loved her, but he didn't say he wasn't in love with her either.There was more back and forth about not caring about how I feel, to which he replied "I DO care how you feel." Then I called the OW some nasty names, told him he was going to be sorry (LB?). Told him she was telling him everything he wanted to hear, but the truth was she's cheated on every guy she's been with.
He fluffed it off, saying I didn't know what I was talking about, and should not be listening to her BS.
Conversation in hallway:

ME: What's going on, really, WH?
WH: What do you mean?
ME: What's going on with this whole situation? You can't stay here and you can't stay there, what are you going to do?
WH: Kill myself
ME: Seriously, your the one that wanted this
WH: (shakes head)
ME: So you don't want a divorce?
WH: I never said that
ME: Then you DO want a divorce?
WH: (silence)(shrugs shoulders) yeah
ME: Good to know. At least now I know where I stand

WH puts clothes in bag, puts on table. Walks into bathroom. Downstairs in kitchen, I'm emptying dishwasher, he comes in.
I tell him: "WH, always know this, I love you, I will probably always love you. But, this isn't good. I'm too hurt. I would probably take you back in a heartbeat if you came back (the words fell out of my mouth too fast. He shut the door to the garage and left before I could say but there are things that would have be done before that. So he left thinking I would take him back anytime!)

So there you have it. I don't think he will pack his clothes and go. I think he will just avoid me. I hope Plan B soothes my soul.

I have a lot to say after reading that, but I have to get ready for class, so no time to dissect.

I will just say, some of that was good, some was not good. You can learn from it all without beating yourself up about any mistakes. They're a learning tool, not a bludgeon.

In short, although some of the things you said were good, overall you're bogging down in fruitless arguments and discussions. You can't reason with him, so you might as well give up trying. Fog responses can be lots of fun, though.

You know you can't go to Plan B till he's out of the house, right?

Tell me Neak, oh I do so want to hear your wise wisdom!

Yes, I know I can't do Plan B until he's out of the house.

Remember, I didn't do Plan B when first A occured. I used exposure, got OW fired and she ended A with WH. SHE had NC w/him. He was living with a friend down the road and then I let him come back home. That was dumb of me.

In talking with WH, We looked at each other intently for probably a minute, what to say in a moment like that? I don't know if he was waiting for me to say something. It was almost like he wanted me to say something derogatory, or tell him he was scum.

Tell me how I should have reverse babbled my way through convo.

The road was too icy to make it to class, so now AJ and I are home with no children. I'll check in with you tomorrow.

Last night when DS came home from going with WH to pick up his new car, DS said he thought his dad seemed sad. That was around 8pm.

I had a really bad URGE last night to get in my car and drive past the bar to see if he was there, if not, then drive past her house.

I heard a song in my head for some reason. Beatles, Let It Be.
"whisper words of wisdom, let it be". Song always had a special meaning to me because my mom's name was Mary. "Mother Mary sings to me, whisper words of wisdom, let it be".

I did not go. Got PJ's on, got ready for bed.

Kinda proud of myself.

WH: I have to come back anyway to get some clothes (for work tomorrow)
ME: Why not just get your clothes now, and take them with you?
WH: WHY? (in accusing voice)
ME: You're moving out in a few days. It will be easier if you don't have to take everything at once.
WH: Why? (accusing tone, like I'm up to something - Well, duh, PLAN B)
ME: Because I will not continue to live with you while you are committing adultery and drinking.
WH: I'm not leaving.
ME: I expect you to be gone by [fill in the date]. Would you like some hot chocolate to take with you?
~ End of conversation, do not re-engage. ~


That was a very good answer.

The rest of it, I kind of feel like you were following him around, bringing up different subjects that were bound to take a sour turn. Far better to be nearby, working on something and humming happily, not pushing R-talk or A-talk.

His suicide comment was most likely drama trying to get a rise out of you. This will have to be totally up to your judgment at the time, as obviously if he is making serious threats of suicide, and planning how to carry it out, you should call 911 and have the sheriff or police 5150 him.

If you sense it's merely more drama, consider calmly saying something like, "More likely you'll end up paralyzed, not dead. I wonder if OW will take care of you the rest of your life if you were paralyzed? Changing your diapers - how romantic." And change the subject. He knows good and well OW wouldn't sign on for that.

But again, if at any point you are even concerned he might be serious, call law enforcement and let them deal with it. Don't take any chances.

So basically, don't bring up the A or your M except on rare occasions. Far better to wait for him to give you the occasional opening to fog response, and talk about fluffy stuff instead.

Now as to having him move out, I would say maybe give him a couple of days and tell him, I expect you to be out on this date. The words "I expect" are very powerful. You should use them any time you need to talk about him moving out.

Then, while he's at work that day, pack all his stuff and set it out on the porch.

He might refuse to leave even then, and if so we'll help you cross that bridge when you come to it. Most likely, by you being strong and powerful, he will go ahead and leave.

That's what I'd try first.

Also, good on ya for not hunting him down. I would recommend that to someone who was still looking for proof, but you know he's cheating. You know he's drinking. Proving it twice (or more) is usually a waste of time.

Have a great weekend, Mitzie, and take the time to care for yourself. I think I see a bubble bath in your future.

Thanks Neak.

I think he has bought her jewelery for Christmas. I think this because I got a very odd phone call, I swear the woman said she was calling from some jewelers. i didn't get the name, only catch the word "jewelers". When I kept pressing for answers, she kind of back tracked and something about engraving and this was the number given and I kept the convo going because I was trying to get info out of her.

What I think happend was my (dumb) WH went to the jewelery store and purchased a gift for OW. Could not give cell phone because she checks his phone (btw, she has told him NOT to call or contact me because she'll find out!)Anyway the woman probably thought the gift was for ME(his WIFE!) and was trying to cover.

When I dialed the number back, it rang about 100 times no answer, did reverse search, couldn't find anything.

What's up with that!?

OW kids are gone all week-end. I won't see him. She's packing them up on the 24th and they won't be back until Jan 2. Perfect time for him to stay over there until his place is ready on the 2nd!

I'm just sick of rehashing this over and over in my head. I'm off to bed.

Today I'm feelin' really well.

I think the meds must be taking some effect. Still get sad and have crying fits but not as often and not as intense(as in, "boo hoo why is this happening to me" and "boo hoo I CAN'T do this on my own" and "boo hoo everything is RUINED I HATE that B!&CH and MFer for doing this to our family")

No body likes a cry-baby who wallows in their owns self pity.

Called WH this morning before he started work. Convo was short and to point: "Are you stopping by house today?"
"Yes"
"Can you please put some one's in DS2's lunch money cup so he has lunch money for this week?"
"OK, I will"
"Thank you, bye bye" CLICK. End of convo.

One hour later the home phone rings. It is WH. He NEVER calls home.
"Hello?"
"Hey, did DS1 ever change that tire on his car?"
"No, he put air in it."
"Air in it? Why would he do that?"
"I don't know, wanna talk to him?"
"Uh, okay, is he up?"
"Don't think so, I'll get him". End of convo.

DS1 has his own phone. Why is WH still using me as an intermediary to talk to DS1? He's the one that said he hopes a divorce will make his relationship with his kids better. IDIOT!

OW's SO called me and said OW called him Btchn and Moaning about HIM telling ME stuff and that he better NOT be talking to me and telling me 'private information about her'. She called him TWO days AFTER I had mentioned the 'private' information to WH.

Yesterday when I talked to him I told him I did not want him repeating what was said between he and I to OW as WE are still H & W and what is said between a H & W is private and should be kept so. That I did not need nor ask for a third party to be involved in this relationship. And if he couldn't keep our conversations private I would have no choice but to stop talking to him all together. Also told him he belongs home with his family somewhere in that conversation.

What's going on here?

Someone, HELP, please! Any vets insight highly welcome.

Please read above.

Don't want to get lost in the posts.

THanks all.

Sorry Mitzie, I went to Bismarck yesterday, then we had a blizzard today. Excuses, excuses.

WH senses you withdrawing from him, and is making a few tentative steps in your direction to see if you will still respond.

Although I wouldn't recommend pouring your energies into a wasted Plan A, if you have further conversations like the ones above during the SHORT TIME before going to Plan B, you can be a little bubblier and chattier.

For example, when asking him to put the ones in the lunch fund and he said yes, you could have said something like, "I really appreciate when you help us out with stuff like that."

Without draining your energy banks, if an opportunity knocks on your door to painlessly meet an Admiration EN, go for it. Just hurry up and get thee to Plan B.

Thanks Neak.

Yeah, I am TRYING to be a bit nicer.

I came home from work late tonight(early morning now actually), saw WH had done his laundry. Wondered where the clothes where that I left in the dryer. WH had folded them! I didn't even know he KNEW how to fold clothes. Good Lord Almighty!!!

SO, I sent a quick text:

Thanks 4 foldn my clothes. Awfuly sweet of u! BTW, I hav a pair of undyz missin. teehee

I could always make the WH laugh.

WH at OW house. I'm sure they are both drunk and sleeping by now. Of course he will get message in morn. I hope she reads it, she'll have a fit!

Also, WH is trying to NOT pay some bills due for this month. I think OW is telling him not too.

You can very nicely expect him to pay. You might even proactively say, "Thank you so much for deciding to help out your family. We appreciate how you take care of those things."

Let him contradict you then.

Refresh my memory, did you have a new Plan B date picked out? Still Jan 2? I'm not nagging, really, and won't start nagging unless you don't have one planned, lol. I have a hard time keeping track of the details, so you'll have to help me out every now and again.

I am panning Jan2 Plan B.

I just hope "Mr. I'll drag my feet" doesn't decide not too.

In any case the hearing is Jan 6. They will set a date for him to move out and me take possession of the home until...who knows, at leat 24 months at this point. He'll have to go. At that point, I can change the locks and he can't "stop by" unannounced. Of course I am responsible for all upkeep/maintenece/mortgage/bills!

That SUCKS! But it's a GOOD kin of suck.

I think Jan 2nd really can't come fast enough. I don't know if a Plan B will save our marriage, but I really, really hopes it saves his life.

Night.

Not trying to supplement or supplant your legal counsel, but do what you can between now and then to nail down the proof of his abandonment of responsibilities to you and his children - nights away from home, bills not paid, etc, etc. As a matter of fact, if you can swing it financially, try to avoid reminding him to pay that bill you mentioned. "Buying his son a car" right now would work in his favor as regards family responsibilities.

Remember, you don't want him slowly strangled on 06 January - you want his head (you pick which one) cut off entirely by the court. Judges are by nature risk-averse - if they can find a way NOT to make a decision, you can bet OW's scrawny [censored] they'll take that way out.

Thanks NG.

Unfortunatly Jan 6 is just CS/Spousal hearing. In the state I live in, all CS/Spousal cases are handled through the Domestic Relations of the county you live in.

You are NOT seen by a judge unless there are mitigating circumstances(disabled children/spouse, eldercare,stuff like that) that cannot be handled by mediator.

That stinks, I know.

The state I live in is one of a handleful of states that uses a specific formula to calculate CS/SpousalSup based on both incomes, and INCOME ONLY.

Adaultery does not play any part in this formula.

Abandonment does not play any part in this formula.

He will be ordered to pay bills until I get the CS/Spousal.

THAT stinks,I know.

Also, in my state it is to the BW credit NOT to file for D. The benefits(financially) truly outweigh the post D if children(under 18 or still in HS)are involved.

Beleive me when I say: I am a BETRAYED spouse NOT a STUPID spouse! I've got my duckies lined up, don't you worry bout me.

I'm trusting you know that I harbored no such thoughts.

Good luck with your hearing. We'll be here if you need us.

Wow, I didn't realize your hearing was coming up so fast, too - excellent!

Piece of cake to either pack up his stuff by the appointed date, or have a trusted and powerful IM there when he comes by to get his things.

If doing this saves his life, wonderful, if it happens to save your M too, so much the better. Even in a worst case scenario where he refuses to change anything, you have stopped assisting him along his path to damnation.

Even if that's all you do, it is enough.

Don't stress it, Mitz. It was fine. If you were in a full Plan A, I would say the same thing. Even though you're not going out of your way to create Plan A moments (not that I would ever advocate someone locking their keys in the car on purpose, lol), it is fine to take advantage of the ones that come your way.

You gave him an opportunity to meet your EN for keys , and that gave you the opportunity to meet his EN for Admiration. Win/win, and him leaving an angry, whiny OW to rescue his sweet, beautiful, GRATEFUL wife was just a bonus.

WhooHoo!

Any advice on what NOT to bring up at tomorrows dinner.

I'm sure he won't stay long.

He'll have to go to skankho-bar-rats before he leaves for work.

WH told me when I asked him to come eat that he had to leave for work by 9? He doesn't start til 11 and clocks in @10:30. Sounds like he wants some CAKE(eating) for Christmas. Sad I don't beleive ANYTHING out of this aliens mouth. He used to be the one person I could count on to always tell the truth.

So, advice?

No R talk, no A talk. Light, fluffy, and chatty. As little stress as possible for you.

No need to worry about what to talk about. WH ISN'T comming to dinner.Going to a Christmas party, then off to work. WH said he
'might' drop by on his way to work.

The friend who is having the Christmas party owns a repair shop and this is his annual christmas party for vendors and friends.
Its usually all guys, so I've never gone. On the way to the grocery store this afternoon I just "happened" to decide to stop in and wish party guy 'Merry Christmas'.

Since I have lost 40lbs since last year(20 of them on the "hey, my husband ran off with the bar skank!" diet)I am looking better than I did 20 years ago. So, I walked in, high-heel boots and all,had a nice chat (only 1 mechanic was there), had a Christmas drink, and left.

I'm sure as soon as I left, party guy was on the phone with WH. I'm sure WH won't care since he's living in a fog.

I know, it's sooooo transparent what I was doing, but, hey. . .

I'm not going to sit around and wait for him to "SNAP OUTTA IT"(from Moonstruck-I love that movie).

I will give him leftovers for his lunch tonight. That'll deposit some tokes in the lovebank.I made his lunch almost everyday since beforewe were married. Memories, memories...

WH just left.

Thank goodness for MB. I knew what to expect.He called me in the bedroom and started His fog babble:

"I just couldn't see us living the way we were living 20 years from now"

"I just want you to know, it's not you. I have issues."

"Regardless of OW, in all honesty and don't take this wrong way, I was just waiting for you to go to work full time."

Regardless of fog babble or not, that last one hurt. He said he was just waiting but I was dragging it on and on. Funny thing is, when he first ILYBINILWY, I asked him if he was just waiting for me to start full time.

WH also said when he had to 'rescue'(his word)me yesterday, it was the first time he wasn't mad or upset to do it. He didn't know why, he just wasn't upset or angry.

He kept brining up the fact that I look good, and am buying new clothes(nothing fits thanks to 'infidelity diet') and doing my hair different(needed a cut and got a new style) and why didn't I do this earlier, that all he ever saw me in was sweats and a tee shirt. And that I seemed 'different somehow'.

OW must have texted him 5 or 6 times(he did respond). I said to WH in a very nice tone:"I don't text or call you when you're over there, could you please convey to her to not text while you are with your family(made sure to emphise family). She isn't your family WH, DS1 & DS2 and I are your family." He still answered her texts though.

WH did tell me it was weird staying there with OW cause of her kids. He said he didn't have a choice because I told him he had to go and he didn't have anywhere else to go.

I did try to meet WH EN for affection. He did respond back, and then some

WH kept saying, "what I say to you stays between us, right?" I told him the same exact thing not more than 10 days ago when I told him I didn't want a third party in OUR relationship.

One of my WH BIG EN's has always been sex. Had I been a willing party, he would have had that EN fulfilled(sorry dear, don't know where or who skanko-ho has been or with). Without going into detail(too racy for MB)he still gets that 'urge' with me although he kept saying he doesn't know why.

WH told me the 1st affair was an ego boost. Asked him what is this one then? He said it's different.

Thanks to MB I know he is playing with me, testing me I guess. Wants to see if things don't work out with skank-ho can he come back?

Says he signed a 9 month lease on apt and has to pay before the 2nd.

Says he's sleeping on the floor.

Says she doesn't cook him dinner(of course not, skank-ho's don't cook) and he eats whatever he can find. I come from a "foodie" family and this is apaulling to me.

I made a joke about him having more kids and he said "you don't have to worry, that ain't gonna happen." When I pressed he wouldn't give me an answer why. THAT was odd. He says no, he didn't have a vasectomy.

I packed him a nice lunch for work, thanked him for stopping by, hugged him goodbye, and off he went.

I was cool, calm and collect. Just let him talk. I didn't press(except about her getting pregnant)for answers.

Sorry this post is so long, but I really want to know what's going on. This wasn't like the 1st A. In the 1st A he wasn't planning on moving out so I could at least implement PlanA. This time around, I don't have a clue.

Any Vets out there, please, please tell me what to make of this. I know it's fog babble and shouldn't beleive anything he says, and I don't. Plus, child support hearing on the 6th. Maybe trying to get me to drop it?

My main goal is to get him to stop drinking. If he doesn't come back, then I will deal with that. I want my kids to have a sober dad, they deserve it.

Will I have a good jumping off point for PlanB? Planning on going black on the 2nd.

Thanks.

Dear Mitzie,


Starting a new thread for each and every question simply to address your need for instant gratification does not coincide with your goal of not being needy.

It is very needy.

No need for a new thread for every thought and sentence...

Point taken. Can I move this post to my thread? how? sorry...
I do like to write, it helps sort my thoughts out. I didn't used to be so needy...
I'll keep 'em on my thread from now on.

It's not easy doing translations on a WH who is also an addict. There are too many additional variables.

Basically, he is wallowing in cake. Clearly he is enjoying you meeting his EN's, while still unwilling to cut off OW even for the brief periods he is with you. (She probably knows or suspects he is with you and is going berserk trying to make sure he's behaving himself.)

My advice is not to get so wound up in what he's thinking and doing. You'll go crazy if you try to stay on the coaster with him, even for such a short time before Plan B. Just glide far above the drama.

BTW, that was very good about the texting. Absolutely you were right to request him not to text her in your presence. It's pretty standard that he went ahead and did it. Since you're going to be in Plan B right away, I wouldn't do more than walk away from him any times he texts her near you.

You're getting there.

He called last night to thank me for the lunch. I guess I'm the only one who cares if he's eating and feeling(physically)alright. It's weird that he calls from his cell, but he always calls the house phone. Making sure I'm there?

My kids are pretty smart. They both told me, "you know dad want to come back."

I think they would like him to.

I don't.

Not now. Not the way he is. I want my old H back. I know to even start he's gotta give up the sauce.

I HOPE I'm getting there.

I just read your story. WOW. You give me hope. Some of the things you said inspired me. How funny is it that I told MY WH: I wont be OW's boyfriends' wife. Pretty close to your: "I won't be the wife of someone elses boyfriend". I am going to use that when and if the timing is right.

Here is a quote from you (circa Dec 4, 2005)"Another interesting thing was how fearful I was when I began to see that AJ was a classic cake-eater. OH NO! NOT A CAKE-EATER! But what I didn't see until later was that it was a good thing he was eating cake. The problem lies not with being a cake-eater, but in being allowed to stay a cake-eater. A greedy cake-eater is much more easily influenced by Plan B, IMO."

Was wondering if you still feel that same way, now, five years later. Greedy cake-eaters are easily influenced by Plan B?

Mitzie,
I made the mistake in an earlier post of intimating a bit of concern that you weren't fully prepared for what lay before you. I'll not commit that misjudgment again.

With that in mind, could I propose a little exercise?

Take your opening post, and read it as if I wrote it. (Okay, change the genders as needed.) Now you answer it, giving me your feedback on "my" actions, two weeks prior to "my" scheduled hearing on finances, which apparently kicks off marital dissolution processes in your state. Be brutal, but fair, applying thoughtful concern where appropriate, and 2x4's if indicated.

Hi mitzie,

You can click notify and ask the mods to connect this to your other thread.

NG,

I don't understand what you want me to do exactly.

I understand the part about reading it as though you posted it(I'm guessing your a male). But after that I don't understand.

Our court date is for Child Support/Spousal support only, nothing to do with the marriage itself. You want me answer each thing said back as though I was giving advice to YOU?

I think he's trying to snowball me into giving in and NOT taking him to court! He's money hungry, his OW is money hungry, and about 1/2 his paycheck a month will be going to me.

Let me know what excercize you want me to do?

Sorry, Mitzie, I was not trying to be mysterious, I just did not want to let my impressions of your story bleed into the fresh look I suggested you take at your own writing.

Someone (Neak, maybe?) kinda gave you the gist of what I wanted to say, which was:

YOUR HUSBAND IS THE PROTOTYPICAL CAKE-EATER, AND YOUR RESPONSE IS TO OPEN UP A 24-HOUR, DROP-IN BAKERY?

WH drags himself out of skank's bed, stops by your house, tries to get a little something going with you in the manner of cheating on her, while he's busy cheating with her on you, and you, like the dutiful little wife, (among other things) make him a nutritious little lunch to send him on his way?

Excuse me, I'm confused. Is that Plan A, Plan B, or Plan WTF? The old joke about every man looking for a mate who is a slut in the bedroom, a lady in the parlor, and a chef in the kitchen is 2/3 fulfilled by your WH in the life he is leading. Of course, he's got to get two different women to achieve what he's got so far, but they seem to be okay with it.

First: let me say. . .I survived Christmas 2010! WHEW! Had to work, so that took some off my mind.

WH stopped by this morn. Looked haggard. he drank & did who knows what all night long. Came in bathroom while I was showering. Opened shower door...moving on...we had a nice morning. Talked about past christmases and light stuff. I was meeting some EN's telling him ILY and hugging him and stuff. I did end up meeting his biggest EN. After which he questioned if I had an ulterior motive, like to call the OW and tell her what we did.He said again "what goes on between us, stays just between us." Is this a trust issue with him, or what?
Second:
I'll make it short and sweet.OW is pressuring WH to get a divorce. OW said friend of hers(another skanky)told her that if WH hasn't filed by beginning of year that OW should dump WH because he'll never file.(meanwhile they have only been in their relationship 2 months) This caused a HUGE argument between the two(followed by WH punching his truck and putting a dent in it and hurting his hand, that info from DS1. He then came home called his friend and complained about it to him. DS1 heard parts of conversation, "everything was going fine and then all of a sudden" "I'm so drugged up(DS1's word, I think he may have said effed up) right now and I have to go to work" "I'm so effin mad I could rip someones head right off!". Later that night I get a txt from WH asking if he can sleep here tomorrow morning after work. I tell him fine.

I got a weird txt from WH around 2am. I txted back. He texted back. Finally I just called him(I really detest texting) and asked him what's going on. After some prodding he told me about her pressuring him. Then he said and I quote "she's upset she's dating a married man and looking like the town ho." OMG ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!! She IS the town HO! And he's the town adulterer.

This is so high school I can't stand it.

He's still moving accross from her on January 2nd.

I wonder if he'll cave into her and file, or if he's beginning to have some thoughts about her being so needy and insecure(maybe planted by me, teehee).The brain fog is still there because he said everything is fine between them. Translation: they made up on the phone while he's at work. Betcha he goes over OW in the morning and not here.

I was kinda glad I was able to meet his SF,(his BIGGEST EN). I thought to myself he doesn't really love this skank. He doesn't respect her, sleeping with someone else(that'd be ME!) while professing his love to her. Then I thought, oh goodness, what if that was just a booty call for him and he used me. Guys WILL do that.

Plan B can't come soon enough

Too bad the Skank is going to mess up his cake eating poor baby. lol

If you still want him & I'm saying a pretty big if. Kind of wondering why you would at this point. This is his 2nd right ?????

Your so much better than this.....

My suggestions is Plan A the Hell out of him for another 6 weeks & then go dark as in he doesn't exist dark.

This unintentionally worked for me. I planned A'd H for on & off for 5 months.
( my taker would rear it's ugly little head occasionally or I would wreck any progress by love busting ) Also didn't realise till after it all , I had to bust through a 12 inch thick concrete wall = to a 4yr affair & skankerella moved in with my H me being totally unaware for 3 out 5 months. ( see messing up his cake eating )

Then I had to plan B & go dark because I had to stop the wounds from bleeding & try to heal myself I was hemmoraging at that point. The only way I could do that is act as if he was dead. No texting , no talking on the phone, noSF, no little wifey duties like making his lunch, absolutley nothing I started creating a life for myself where he didn't exist. If something I did reminded me of him I changed it or removed it from my life. This sounds like eternity typing this but it was actually only 10 days for plan B. But I guess it was enough cuz ........

It also brought my H around realising what he really wanted. We have been back together for 3 1/2 months now. I will also tell you , raise the bar high, do not settle for promises & no follow thru. Be prepared to have a lists of requirements & do not bend on any of those. If he does then he is not worth it.

I'm not telling you this for nah nah this how you manipulate ! Dr H is a very smart man he is very correct in saying, you will be stronger the more time you plan b. You will get stronger everyday & be able to disconnect yourself from the stitch. You will be able too see you are worth so much more than what your H is willing to give.It will give you back the power over yourself & your life & what is really best for you.

If you cannot go another 6wks on Plan A then go dark Jan 2nd as planned.Do not let him have any speck of you for any reason.

Skank will dig her own grave , just bide your time. She's pushing for him to give up his cake eating & I promise you he will not like that at all.

Sorry I'm not a vet but I got my battle scars & ripped t-shirt as proof of this.

Best of luck .... I hope he shows he's worth all of this to you ((((( hugs)))))

Thanks 8.

Yeah, he went to skank-ho's to sleep. He's not answering his phone. What an idiot.

I don't know if i posted this, but Christmas Eve, he took her to OUR neighborhood party! He claimed he didn't want to go but she kept insisting(he can't say no?).I'm tellin' you-that woman WANTS MY LIFE! I guess she felt kinda 'awkward', and I think that's what pre-empted this whole, divorce thing.

I keep telling him I don't want a divorce. I beleive in this marriage.

Just sad that he didn't show. Sad he'd dumb and doesn't know what she's doing(she wants a ring on her finger).Sad he chose her couch over our big comfy warm bed. Sad he's rather be there than here.

I would suggest, in accordance with DrH and MB, that you Plan B ASAP. That means NOW. As soon as you can get it prepared, pull the trigger. You have been here for more than a month so get that Plan B moving.

Of course your WH is using YOU TOO. He is using BOTH OW and YOU. He is going to be telling her that you are pressuring him into staying married but that he WILL file. He is trying to keep BOTH of you on a hook.

And as far as meeting his SF need, doesn't OW meet that need too? What ENs do YOU meet that OW wasn't? Ramp it up for the last few days. PA, DS, RC(even if he doesn't go along) and admiration. These are some HIGH ENs for MOST men.

Do you want to save your marriage? Following MB to the T is your BEST chance. I know it is scary at first. I used to say(and sometimes still do) that if I only KNEW that in 4 years, my WH would come home, I could make it. There is NO guarantees. Believe me on this though, you WILL feel better after some time in plan B. You will be AMAZED at the progress you make.

Scotland, thanks. I know you know what you're talking about. I have some questions though: What is DA and RC? Is you H still living with OW? How long did your PlanB take? I'm prepared to go 6 months. That'll take me up to day after my bday.

OW and I are both meeting his SF EN, yes. That is probably his number 1 EN. I meet the ENs of friendship, security, loyalty, finance, stability, UNCONDITIONAL love and a couple more I'm sure I can't think of off the top of my head.

8thgraders pretended her WH was dead. I thought that to myself yesterday. I just have to think of him as dead. My H is dead and I don't know who WH is.

Yes, I want to save this marriage. I beleive in marriage. I beleive in THIS marriage. I have seen many success stories on this board. All were sucesses because they followed Dr. H's & MB plan to do so. If this marriage can't be saved(WH is practicing alcoholic,so...)at least I will end up with my sanity, and hopefully adjusted children.

Can you direct me where I can find a start for a PlanB letter, and how it is given?

Thanks Scotland

Mitzie, I am sorry, this is going to be somewhat short. I need to jet off to work. It is Boxing day here(equivalent to Black Friday in the US) and I work at a MAJOR retailer.

Have you read all of this site? Here is the newbie thread in case you haven't read it yet. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2370240#Post2370240

There is stuff about Plan A and B and about ENs.

There is so much wrong with what you wrote in your post to me.

DS=Domestic Support
PA=(in ENs) Physical Attactiveness
RC=Recreational Companionship

Are you saying that you are entering plan B and that it will end in 6 months? or are you saying that you will enter Plan B in 6 months?

If your WH is also an alcoholic, MB won't work for him until he has received help for that addiction. In that case, I would suggest Plan B NOW with conditions in the letter about him receiving help with his alcohol addiction FIRST.

Hope this helps

No not waiting 6 months. Planning going to Plan B on Jan 1 or 2nd. WH said moving either one(prob depending on his hangover).

Plan B will be much welcome. I've had enough of the drama.

MelodyLane gave me some hope in an earlier post that WH will probably go crazy when I go to Plan B because I'm his security/stability(she's a mess, none of either). I hope that'll be enough to have him hit bottom. I don't wish that on anyone, but I've read enough and been to enough Al-Anon meetings to know that's where he has to go before he'll get well-if ever.

6 months in Plan B. I can do that I hope.

I will re-read mentioned info tonight after work.

Plan B is the way to go, Mitzi. This guy is pretty happy the way things are.

I caution you: do not hope that OW dumps him at the beginning of the year and you no longer need to go dark. Get your Plan B together and get ready to go dark

Yes, yes, yes. Whether she dumps him or not makes no difference at all. Stick with the plan. Jan 2 if he does not move out on his own, have his stuff packed and outside by nightfall.

Also, I would be the last person to slam you for the SF, but please, please if/when you do, remember that you're having sex with the whole neighborhood and use appropriate protection. (Hazmat suit!)

This little reminder is for any lurkers or newbies who may be reading, since I already told Mitzie:

The reason she is being encouraged to limit her Plan A activities and make a rapid exit to Plan B is because of her WH's alcoholism. MB plans are not effective when an adultery addiction is combined with a substance addiction. Mitzie's WH is an alcoholic, thus Plan A is basically useless.

The only language an addict understands is personal loss.

Didn't realise your H was also a alkie ..... Should of read closer.

Rip every little EN away from him he got from you. As I posted earlier MY H WAS DEAD HE DIDN'T EXIST ATLEAST IN MY MIND. That was the only way I could let him go.

There was no playing nice, he didn't exist so there was no playing goin on. Any wifey duties you played stop ! Any family duties that included him being praised stop !
Do not do anything if his name , or him getting partial credit is attached.

He does not exist ! So stop it.

If music reminds you of him change the channel ! I learned to really like Dave Ramsey you can play hours & hours of his segments on the net.

TV or Movies remind you , read a book empowering you !

Sports remind you , Turn the channel & watch an evangelist ,Fox news, anything but always make sure it is the total opposite of him & what he liked.

I had to do this to save myself. To show myself I could go on without him. I could rebuild my life on my own.I wanted him for the right reasons.Not because I was afraid of being alone, financial security or any other f up'ed reason he could come up with.

As for your reasons for going thru this a 2nd time. They are yours & only you can decide if it is worth it or not. I have friends & family that think I'm totally nuts right now , a weak ,taken advantaged of, fooled little wife that can be controlled.

The difference is the weak ones kick them to curb, the strong ones fight until there is nothing left to fight for. I see us & the ones fighting on this board the strong ones. The weak wouldn't even be trying & would of just gave up.

When R has never occurred from the first A, a second A doesn't automatically mean the WS is a serial adulterer. Time will tell if they are salvageable or not.

Even serial cheaters can be converted, but the numbers are very few.

Am I the only one completely freaked out that she is having sex with this man probably within hours of him having sex with the OW?

Ugh. After I installed a keylogger I discovered that WH (now X) had been with his OW and me in the same 24 hour period. It grosses me out now to think about it...and it was certainly the last time I ever let him have sex with me.

Does it not bother any of you?

No, SW, you are not alone.

My last post, after WH tried to get Mr Happy attended to, attempted to express my misgivings about the self-delusional path Mitzie was on, to wit:
And that was BEFORE she gave in to his advances. Sometimes there is just nothing to be said to those who will not listen; the best that can be done is to withdraw. I'm done with this poster, except to say that in my next life, if I'm a WH, I hope to have a BW who will take care of my SF EN's while I'm still smelling like the OW skank.

I am not freaked out. I did the same thing many times myself. What I want is for her to insist on full protection for herself if she chooses this route.


You say this like it's a bad thing.

In Plan A, you WANT the WS to become a cake-eater. The more cake they eat, the more they will miss it when they get plunked right in the middle of Plan B.

A good Plan A involves letting the WS even wallow in the cake, right in the midst of their A. That is the point.

Where this differs a bit for Mitzie is with her WH's addiction. Because of that, she has been advised to put very little effort toward a Plan A, since it won't be effective anyway. I have no objection to her doing little things as the opportunity arises, such as the lunch, as long as they don't require much planning, effort, or energy.

Any Plan A'ing she does must be with the full knowledge that it's not effective, and as long as she takes that into account AND goes promptly to Plan B on Jan 2, it's all good.

If we see her pouring too much energy in, or starting to waffle on her PB date, that's when we need to break out the 2x4's.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU one and all! Your advice is well taken, I assure you.

Today (12/27) is WH b'day. I always made a special day of it. Not this year.

I didn't call WH all day. Didn't see him at all. Only spoke to him this morn when he called said he sleeping at skanky-steal my boyfriend's wife's husban-ho's house. Said he didn't want to bother me. What bother?

As for the SF with WH. Yes it does sound kinda self skanking, but for me there was a method behind my skanking. 1. To SF to the max on his EN. 2. He was getting 'aroused'(hate that word, sorry)just by sitting by me on the couch. and 3. the most important part of all, I wanted to see if he respected her since in his alien brain he is sooo madly in love and soul-mates. Right now he doesn't respect either one of us. So we are on an even playing field. Guess who's gettin their OWN self respect back? That's right, That'd be MITZIE. Let them wollow in thier self destructive behavoir. People don't stay with people they don't respect.

Sometimes the best defence is no defence.

Can I go 'kinda' dark before i head into Plan B? Plan B is only 5 or 6 days away. By kinda dark I mean, not texting, not calling. I'v already stoped driving by the apt complex they BOTH will be living in, and little things like that.
Please let me know on that one.

I'm sooo tired, just want to crawl in bed and sleep, sleep, sleep.(I can do that now, my MD gave me some antidepressents and help with the sleeping too).

Goodnight.

Don't go prematurely dark, just don't go out of your way to be light, either. Don't seek out opportunities to Plan A, but if he stops by or calls be at your best, without stressing being at your best, KWIM?

Go with the flow. If you can do something nice, go ahead. If you can't, no biggie. Write your letter, have some extra boxes on hand. Maybe the local supermarket has them certain days of the week.

I am at a loss on how to even START a Plan B letter. What I should say, how to say it. Even more so because of WH alcoholism and our seperation.

Plan B should be pretty easy. He avoids seeing me now as it is.

Help with the letter, PLEASE!

Thanks

Getting ready for Plan B
It's a read-only ... in archives

Thanks Pepperband.

That was just what I wanted.

I'm off to work. I will post a draft later tonight/early morn.

Could you pleas take a look at it. I love to write and tend to drone on and on and take the long way around my point. My WH has a short attention span(like remembering he's married? :D) so I need to make it sweet & to the point.

Thanks again.

Post it, and you'll get ruthless editing help.

Hello everyone.

I'm still working on my Plan B letter, so be patient. Half done. Hard to write what I want to say.

Last night WH and I texted back and forth about inconsequential things (kids, lunches, neighborhood things)and then the texting got a little racy(just a tiny little bit). His last text was: "I'm one **explitive** up individual". He says that a LOT. I was sleeping and texted him this morn about it. He was going to stop by on his way home from work.

He did stop. Thanked me for yesterdays lunch. He wanted SF. I gave in.(even giving in to a fantasy of his. Sorry if I shouldn't have, just felt right at the time). Afterward I asked him how he felt after we "did it" and he said weird. He said he felt like he was using me. What the heck? Is this normal? Does he relly feel this way or is this brain fog? Then he said he doesn't understand his feelings, like when he's away from me all he wants to do is be with me, and when he's here(home) with me all he wants to do is leave. Of course he left to meet OW at the bar b/c he didn't get to go have his birthday drinks from yesterday. All this went on in about a one hour and half span. He said definitly leaving on the 1st but he would still be around and see me. . Too bad about Plan B putting a spin on that for him.

I understand Neak's perspective on making him a very GREEDY cake-eater. That is what I am trying to do. I am making these few days count. Making them as pleasant and cake filled as I can.

Neak, everyone. . .Please tell me I'm doing the right thing! Please tell me what he's doing and saying is NORMAL for WS to do.

I keep saying to myself: I'm NOT being used, I'm being USEFUL. I'm NOT being use, I'm being USEFUL. . .

Feelings have no intelligence.
Feelings just are.
Feelings have no moral compass either.
Anytime someone asks something like:

"Are those his true feelings?"
The answer is always "Yes."

But, that's just part of the story.

Feelings are never fixed.
Feelings always change. Always.

The wayward fog we refer to is how their "thinker" is all screwed up.

Having said all that, if your WH is an alcoholic, his development of life skills has been delayed.
No one learns good/great life skills under the influence.

An alcoholic wayward has a double whammy screwed up stinkin'thinkin'.

The only thing that matters are his actions.
Listen to his actions. If you know what I mean.

You ARE being used.
That's what Plan A is.
But, it has a purpose.
You are being used to fill his most important ENs.

Plan A like a maniac right before Plan B.
That is your best opportunity to leave him wanting more of you and what you have to offer.

I would also say that you shouldn't ask him about his feelings right now. You probably DON'T want to know. Remember, he wants what HE wants and right now BOTH you AND OW are giving that to him. He cares the same about you and OW because he is using BOTH of you. That is the WH. That is what he is all about. That is why it is important not to carry on plan A for too long. You will get LB'd by him and you will start to lose all of the love that you have left for him. That is one of the reasons you are going to go to Plan B. You won't realize that your LB has taken major damage until it is too late.

Being an addict, he is already a greedy cake-eater. Clearly he appreciates your bakery.

Don't stress what is in his mind right now. (Hint: not a whole lot.) The main thing is that you have a plan, and you are executing it regardless of what he thinks or does.

The EN's you meet now will come back to haunt him in Plan B. Every time he has no lunch, every time he doesn't call OW and she shrieks at him because she thinks he was with you, every time he gets a call from a blocked number and gets interrogated...again and again he will see how good he had it.

Dealing with that plus alcohol, well that boy has his work cut out for him. Your hardest job by far is going to be not letting him back before he's ready.

bump

My Dearest Husband <****>,

I am so sad having to write this letter. Today is your moving day and even as I put words to paper, I cannot beleive I must write them to you. I truly do not know how we ended up this way and what has happened to our marriage. Please beleive me when I say that the decision I must make now is out of necessity to spare what I can of the love I have for you.

I have made many, too many, mistakes in the past and cannot change those mistakes or take them back. I have made exceptionally poor judgement calls on my part when it comes to money and my total disrespect of it. I have also made mistakes in understanding how important your need of sexual intamacy is, I completely shut you out some of the time, and for this I will be forever sorry. Also, I have not been a very fun recreational partner, I could have tried harder on my part to participate more often in the outdoor activities and the sports you enjoy.

Only now have I been able to recognize those errors in judgments, actions and inactions. I have learned from them so very much. My understanding of those failings has honestly taken me with great effort to take steps that they will not happen agian.

What I have been able to do is recognize those errors in judgment and action or inaction; and I have learned from them so much. The depth of my understanding, of those failings, has taken me to honestly and with great effort to take steps that will ensure that they will not happen again. I can with a clear conscious say to you that I have a renewed understanding of the worth of money and I have come to realize that saving for what you want instead of buying needlessly cannot and will not happen today, tomorrow or anytime in the future. You know you and I have such a strong sexual chemestry and everytime I see you I want you, I ensure you those days of turning a cold shoulder to you are over. I want to fulfill every fantasy and desire that you have. You have taught me the love and how to enjoy the outdoor more than I ever imagined possible, Riding your Harley is one of the greatest enjoyments I think I have ever had. Riding with you once or twice or more a week would be a priority for us.

I am more than truly sorry for help create and feed this enviorment that made your affair possible. I am the one person who was responsible for meeting your most important needs; and by lacking the right judgement I did little to help in growing and sustaining our love for each other. I lost track of how important sex, financial security and fun leisurly activites are to you. I lost sight of these over the years. I now know I am more than able to meet those needs and lovingly enthusiactly do so.

These past two months I have had a most difficult time. There is pain and deep sadness as I've learned to fix my failings. This sadness and pain has, dispite the heartache, has made me realize what strenghs I really possess. This hurt and strengnths have caused a conflict that has lead me to this inexcapable conclusion. My strength is my only resolve and that I will old firm to.

<****>, my love, the conclusion I have come to is this, until you end your relationship with <***>, I can no longer see you or talk to you. The continued pain that befalls me everytime I see or talk to you has become unhealthy for me to be the best wife for the one that I love.

Greg, this decision is not meant to hurt you. It is the only way that I can hold onto the love that I have for you. The kind of love I have for you inspite of your affair.I don't want to lose that love.

As soon as you are willing to permanently and unconditionally seperate from <***>, I will be willing to discuss our future.

I want us to rebuild our marriage and our family. We need to build a new lifestyle that both enjoy. We can do everything we can to make us both happy and our marriage blossom. We used to have such fun together when we would go out together or with friends. I want us to get those good times back. I want to be your best friend and lover and wife that man would be proud to have as a spouse.You know I can and would be all of those to you. You know I have loved you more than anything in life and would die for you should it come to that. My love is deep and my love is strong. My love is commited and loyal and trustworthy.

Forever, your loving wife

Quick, you left some names in there- get them out. And, please, before you send this, use spellcheck.

My Dearest Husband Mr. Mitzie,

Today is your moving day and even as I put words to paper, I cannot believe I must write them to you.

I have made many mistakes in the past, and cannot change or take them back. I wish I could. I have made poor judgement calls when it comes to money,failed to understand how important sexual intimacy is for both of us, and I completely shut you out some of the time. Also, I have not been as much of a fun recreational partner as I could have, and to participate more often in the outdoor activities and sports you enjoy. I'm sorry for each of the mistakes I have made. Recently I have learned to recognize my mistakes, and correct them. I have enjoyed the chance to show you what I've learned about being a great wife, a careful shopper, and how to meet your needs in all kinds of creative ways. The changes I have made will carry with me the rest of my life, as I continue to grow and improve.

You have brought so much to my life. You and I have such a strong sexual chemistry, and every time I see you I want you. You have taught me to love and enjoy the outdoor more than I ever imagined possible. One of my greatest enjoyments is riding your Harley, all snuggled up with my arms around you.

Because I love you so much, these past two months have been terribly difficult for me. There is pain and deep sadness as I've seen you go to another woman's arms again and again. Mr. Mitzie, my love, because of the raw pain I feel every day, the conclusion I have come to is this - in order to protect what love I have left for you, I choose to no longer see you or talk to you until you end your adultery with OW.

Mr. Mitzie, this decision is not meant to hurt you. It is the only way that I can hold on to the love that I have for you. I don't want to lose that love. As soon as you are willing to permanently and unconditionally seperate from OW, and enter treatment for your alcoholism, I will be willing to discuss our future. It's not too late for us.

I want us to rebuild our marriage and our family. We need to make a new lifestyle that we both enjoy, where we are both happy, and our marriage blossoms. I want to be your best friend and lover, and a wife that any man would be proud to have. You know I have always loved you more than anything in life, and would die for you if need be. My love is deep, and my love is strong. I look forward to a wonderful future by your side.

Forever, your loving wife

Neak,
I did say I tend to drone on and on....

Thanks for cutting it down to bare necessitities for me. That is much more specific and to the point.

Thanks again.

A question: Why would WH call me this morning to tell me he called off work last night because he got so drunk(celebrating his bday)that he couldn't make it in? He knew I would have a fit because I had one the last time he called off three weeks ago. This from a man who NEVER called off but once in 15 YEARS! A man who proud of the fact he never clocked in late in 18 YEARS! Why didn't he just not tell me, I would have never found out about it. I don't get it.

Stuff like that, just say blandly, "Well, that was your choice. Some weather we're having, isn't it?"

Is it common for WS to show the Plan B letter to their OP? I mean, since they are soulmates and share EVERYTHING, I almost expect WS to.

Will the OP try to use it against the marriage? Saying that's just my way of copping out, and that he SHOULD go file for divorce because obviously I don't want to be with him?

Do they GET it, the letter I mean, since they are under "infidelity FOG?" Do most WS just throw it away? I understand the need to send a PLan B letter. That it's more for me then him, but I just don't understand how it could possibly work to help rebuild our relationship when there is a third party involved minipulating THEIR relationship.

Marriage Builders suggest SENDING a copy to the OP.

That way, they know you are NOT giving up and YOU sent the Wayward away from the marriage until conditions of no contact are met once and for all.

You send a copy to the OP (if you have an address or email of theirs) and put a note on the copy that says:


I love WH with all of my heart and am willing to do whatever it takes to make him happy. I will wait for him to give me that chance.

Agree. Sending to the OP is a good idea, because it destroys the happy little comfort they feel about the BS giving up. They know that no matter where they go or what they do, you're still there, waiting for them to blow it. The pressure wears on them, they lovebust, and things go even more terribly in A-land.

Besides, the soul-meats shouldn't have any secrets, right? Lol!

Generally, the WS does not voluntarily show the OP a PBL any day of the week, and most especially if it contains (tasteful of course!) references to a recent sexual encounter. Generally, they keep it, re-read it many times, and eventually some of it may begin to sink in.

That's the main reason it's in letter form, as they would remember NOTHING of it if you simply told them. Very short attention span, as you said.

I sent OW a copy of the Plan B letter. I put an extra line on the end of it as well. BUUUUUUTTTTTT being in Plan B, I have NO CLUE it's affect on OW or the A. I CAN attest to the fact that the WS doesn't throw it away. My IM told WH that the details about when he was supposed to visit the children and finances, etc were in the letter, he told IMs it was in the car(This SHOULDN'T have slipped through but it DID). How many times he has read it since? Who knows? It doesn't matter to me.

Sending the Plan B letter to OP also shows OP that your WS didn't leave YOU and pick THEM. The choice was NOT theirs. This does plant some seeds of doubt in the mind of the OP. For that reason ALONE, I was HAPPY to email OW the letter as well.

Today I went to the atty to get the papers in order for the child/spousal support hearing on the 6th. I thought I could handle this day. I couldn't.

First it started out the WH comming in the A.M. to get some clothes. He took enough for the next TWO days. This made me sad, as my addiction to him is great and knowing I won't see him left me feeling empty.
HOWEVER...Three days ago I took little slips of paper and wrote different words of endearments/sayings/hearts/kisses ect...on them and shoved them in the left pocket of ALL his jeans, that's where he keeps his money. Soooo, when he puts his hand in his pocket, he will pull out(hopefully)a small little note (reminder of) from ME!

I'm just so sad. I don't know how I ended up here. WH acts like he's a guest in his OWN HOME! For example: he's been doing his own laundry and he asked how much laundry soap and fabric softner cost. I asked him why he wanted to know and his reply was "I'm sorry I use so much of your laundry soap, I want to replace it." WHAT??? MY LAUNDRY SOAP? Well, came home from the attorneys and there was a bottle of laundry soap and fabric softner sitting on the counter. Made me cry.

I feel like we don't exist to him. And I KNOW we don't in his world, but it still hurts. He told me today he felt like he was just waiting out time until he died while he was with me and now he doesn't feel that way anymore.I really didn't know he was that distant from me emotionally, I thought we were just having a bump in the road of life, not a gigantic sink hole!

Sitting there in that office, discussing OUR children like they were things with price-tags on them(yes, I'll have one DS2 for X amount of dollars a month please)was heartwrenching for me.I know that once he moves on Saturday he probably won't come around to see the kids at all. Out of sight out of mind, that's his philosophy.

I think with him being an alcoholic I have been in a dysfunctional relationship for so long I don't know how to be functional. I hope Plan B helps me be functional again.

Just continuing ranting from my post above.

THis morning I awoke in such a panic.My first thoughts this morning were of WH and OW shopping together for stuff for his new apartment. Little things like laundry baskets and plates and glasses, sheets and towels. OW picking all this stuff out for him so he is constantly reminded of her presense in his new apartment. AAAARGGGG! My heart started racing, my head was spinning. They are making MEMORIES!!! Erasing the little bit of memories WH may have of US, HIS FAMILY, and replacing them with memories of HIM and the OW. Out of sight, out of mind, like I said, my WH philosophy of life.

Then I dragged myself out of bed and walking down the hall I passed DS2's room. He had gone to stay with my sis & family about 90 miles away for the holiday. His door was shut. Why was his door shut? Because I had shut it when he left. He had left it in such a dissary I couldn't stand to look at it, knowing I was going to have to at least venture in and straighten it up before he got back. OUT OF SIGHT OUT OF MIND!
But then I realized...sooner or later that door is going to HAVE to be open, and I'm going to have to look at that mess and face it head on and get it cleaned up. So like that messy room, my WH has closed the door on his messy life. That made me feel better. I know, one day, on God's time (not mine) he will have to open that door and get in there and at least look at the mess he has made.

I have the PB letter ready to go. Should I leave it for him to pick up here when he gets his stuff, or should I mail it to his new address? Suggestions anyone.

Hmmmm. I don't know that leaving it with his stuff is the right answer, since you're iffy already about whether he will easily leave. I would say get him out first, and then either hand it to him as he leaves (after he has gotten all his stuff), or take it to him at work the next day.

I would not recommend mailing his copy, because she might intercept it and you couldn't be sure he had read it.

As far as getting her a copy, how much do you know about her? Can you send it someplace where he won't intercept her copy, either? Work would be very good if you know where that is, but I would NOT recommend taking it in person. Either mail it the day before you give the letter to WH, or have a friend deliver it right after WH gets his. Letter, that is.

Deliberately calm your thoughts. God is working in and through everything, and He is doing all He can without forcing WH to choose rightly. You're just about to turn over the whole thing to His care and keeping, which is scary and faith-building all at once. Focus on faith, and refuse to live in fear.

Yes it is very scary.

I know for sure he is moving. He has the apartment key. Gave me his new address. I don't know when I will see him again.

I was going to print the PB letter this morning, but my luck...no ink in the printer (darn kids print EVERYTHING they see on the comp!;)) SO I'll have to stop at Wallyworld and get some on my way to work.

I WILL hand it to him when I see him, maybe on Sunday I can get him over somehow and give it to him then.

OW does NOT WORK(hasn't work more than 15hrs a week in the past 8 years-lazy POSOW)and is TWO doors down from WH. How much do I know about her...uh, like EVERYTHING...she & SO were good friends of WH & I for years & years. I know she is a wackadoo on pills and an alchy with no morals and poor judgment.

She aint got nothing over me. I KNOW I am the better person.

I WON'T LIVE IN FEAR.

Thanks & Happy New Year to ALL!

Can you take it to him at work? Have a friend knock on her door or slip the letter underneath at the same time? Do you have her address to mail it? If you mail it the day before, she should get it the next day, just be sure to give WH his letter early.

Thinking of you today

Stay strong !

((((( hugs)))))

I DID IT!

I blocked WH phone number and txt from my phone. Now I won't/can't check to see if he called or txt me.

I have decided to give him the Plan B letter on the 6th when we go for CS hearing, that will probably be the only time I see him anyway.

I will send the OW a letter. I don't know her exact apt number but I know the name of the complex. Hopefully she will get it. I was going to put a note at the top: 'Since you and WH share everything and have no secrets, I thought you might like a copy of this letter for your records.' and at the bottom: 'I am willing to wait however long it takes for my husband WH'. Too much you think?

I am starting to feel anger toward WH. Is this normal? I think about all the LB he has caused me over the last few months and it builds up until I feel I almost hate him. Glad today I'm going dark.

Pray for me.

THank you.

Well done Mitzie! I know that is not easy, as you want to know that they are trying to contact you.



I think anger is totally normal, as part of Plan B you do go through a grieving process and anger will be part of it. Its good that you have some anger as it will keep you focused in Plan B right?

Just curious why are you blocking him today , but not giving him the plan b letter at the same time ?

I would think both would make more of a impact.

jmho

Funny didn't even cross my mind to block calls or texts from H. I just didn't answer the phone. Guess I still had that desire to know if he tried calling or not.

Me personally , I was waiting for it, my H was waiting for it & my IC was expecting it.
I went to plan b & for each day that passed the more I could disconnect the angrier I got. I still haven't flipped like anyone was expecting, still a little scared of that(shoe hasn't fully dropped yet syndrome). But that is part of the process I am told is anger. And you will go thru it , just not on your time line.

I would like to suggest that you hand write the plan B letter. In your best hand writing.
It took me about three tries to get a nice, handwritten letter (I was SO out of practise of actually using a pen for any lengthy writing in this new, computer oriented day).
I wrote my original, crafted letter on the computer. Once it was editted, wrote in pen on pretty stationary (bought for the occasion).

I also want to suggest you use the post script to the OW that is in the book
It is perfection.

Enjoy your last days in plan A. Plan A to the max before you pull up the drawbridge.

You need to get the letter to him right away, so he's not sitting around wondering what on earth you're doing. You don't want this to be a mystery.

Let him know today if you can, and drop OW's copy in the mail Monday. Definitely leave off the first part about no secrets - that sounds catty. You want to come across as classy.

Something simple like, "I love my husband and will be waiting for him" would be fine.

I agree about that first line. I wouldn't include it either. I didn't remember the one from SAA, so I wrote,
I LOVE Neak's suggestion.

This was a quote by ConstantProcess I found on Wolf_Not_Cougar's thread:


I had tried a couple times at Alanon about a year ago. I really, at the time 'didn't get it', I guess I just wasn't ready to admit I was a co-dependent and my H was indeed an alcoholic. Now,for myself and the sake of the kids, I will go back. Last night my DS2 came home from a week long visit with my sis & family. He had fun with his cousins & did a lot of 'family' things with them. Now he is home...and his dad is moved out. There isn't an Alateen where the Alanon is, plus at 15 it would be such a struggle to get him to go, but I will try to find one when I go back to Alanon this week.

Alcoholism really is a terrible disease, isn't it? It has trickled down in WH family for I don't know how many generations. In my WH immediate family the alocholism/violence/mental abuse was NOT discussed in their home, they had to live in denial and secrecy. Even to this day my FIL's drinking is very, very rarely ever mentioned. I have been very open with DS1 & DS2 since they were small about their dad's drinking. WH would chastise me and say it was 'disrespectful' of me to talk like that in front of the kids(about his constant drinking and drunken behavior), I would tell him "the truth is never disrespectul."

Last night, looking at the half empty closet (he took his clothes but left a bunch of 'crap' still in there)I realized that WH wasn't comming back, I don't think ever. I feel he got his own place to be with OW(have a place to screw around) but more so, I think he left so he could drink without having to account to anyone or be responsible for anything. WH is a functioning alcoholic, or should I say 'was a functioning alcoholic'. I don't know now given his present behavior of calling off work, so I don't know if he will ever hit his rock bottom.

I am sad, angry, hurt, glad to be free of the elephant in the room and the constant worry, heartbroken, and releived all at the same time.

Having WH phone number blocked on my cell was kinda freeing for me, no calls no texts...I didn't have to keep checking and reminding myself that WH just doesn't care about me or his family.

Friends that have seen WH & OW have told me how WH acts with OW at the bar they go to (EVERY NIGHT) and it amazes me that he acts with her the way I act with him! He hugs her and puts his arm around her, rubs her back, calls her sweetie and babe, holds her hand...all gestures I do with him. What the heck? Is this some type of mirroring WS do with the OP? Like, he knew he was loved, he doesn't really know how to show love, so he acts like the person that loved him to the OP whom he 'thinks/feels' he loves? Crazy...

Sorry to be so long and borrrrring, but I just had to vent this morning. Venting and three cups of Costa Rican Dark Roast keeps the fingers flyin' in the morning

Mitzie,
I'm glad you are aware enough to write:
Many people affected by chemical dependency issues never "get" the sad role that inherited inclinations paly in this blight.
This is all the more reason for you to make whatever arrangements you must (AlaTeeen, or alternative) to ensure that the tragedy-line ends with your WH, and DOES NOT continue through to your DS15.

Just sending a quick hug, since I will be gone most of the day. Find a way to get that letter to WH asap, k?

My WH, who is an active alcoholic, has not seen nor spoken to either of this DS's since Christmas. No phone calls, no texts, no 'popping in to say hi', nothing.

Is this fog or alcohol? Both? How to distinquish between the two, or are they both one now?

What has to happen before the 'fog' lifts? Hitting rock bottom and stop drinking? How does that happen when WH is screwing/prartying/'in love with' an active alocholic/dope-smoking/pill popin'/drug user POSOW?

I have not seen nor heard from WH since Dec 28. Dec 30 thru Jan 3rd(today) is his 5 day long week end off from work. He moved into his apartment(same complex and close to POSOW)on the 1st. I probably will not see him until the 6th at the CS hearing. I have gone dark in Plan B for 3 days now. I find it's not that hard for me (yet) I am angry at WH now so that probably helps me stay focused.

Once I give him the PlanB letter & send OW her's what to expect next? I am sure he will contact me somehow and be angry at me for sending to her, how do I handle this confrontation, should he show up at our home in a rage?

I hope some people who have FWS that have had alcohol problems can help me!

Thanks
Mitzie

#2459315 - Today at 09:21 AM Questions about WS & Alcoholism [Re: Neak]

mitzie
Member

Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 148
Loc: western PA My WH, who is an active alcoholic, has not seen nor spoken to either of this DS's since Christmas. No phone calls, no texts, no 'popping in to say hi', nothing.

Is this fog or alcohol? Both? How to distinquish between the two, or are they both one now?

I am going to speak only for myself as an alcoholic.

When I was a practicing alcoholic I hurt the people I loved the most although I would tell you I did not mean to.

I was confused, twisted, messed up, and warped with my thinking and emotions.

When I would look in the mirror I would see a person I hated. I hated the person I became. I had no clue how to get out of it. No clue what the solution was. No direction period.

I �MADE� problem after problem for myself and then blamed the people around me. I took my problems I created and used them to keep a crazy environment so I wouldn�t have to look at the man in the mirror. At one point in my life I would have shot him. ( EX of MADE problems-DWI/A�s/driving with DS in car while intoxicated)

There is a true fog that surrounds the real alcoholic. You will never really know them since they hate the way they are in their real life. They will hide it from you and make you feel like the crazy one. There is a hole in our soul that no person, place or thing on earth can fill. It a loneliness only a real alcoholic can feel.
What has to happen before the 'fog' lifts? Hitting rock bottom and stop drinking?

AIRTIGHT PLAN B. Spell it out as a condition.
How does that happen when WH is screwing/prartying/'in love with' an active alocholic/dope-smoking/pill popin'/drug user POSOW?

Airtight PLAN B. Go on living your life making it better any way you can. You can not cure his alchoholism.
I have not seen nor heard from WH since Dec 28. Dec 30 thru Jan 3rd(today) is his 5 day long week end off from work. He moved into his apartment(same complex and close to POSOW)on the 1st. I probably will not see him until the 6th at the CS hearing. I have gone dark in Plan B for 3 days now. I find it's not that hard for me (yet) I am angry at WH now so that probably helps me stay focused.

Once I give him the PlanB letter & send OW her's what to expect next?

EXPECT NOTHING. As long as he continues using he is sick.
I am sure he will contact me somehow and be angry at me for sending to her, how do I handle this confrontation, should he show up at our home in a rage?

Protect yourself and your children by any means possible. Call the police before it gets out of hand.
I hope some people who have FWS that have had alcohol problems can help me!

I am in the middle of the D process at this time. Currently a BS. There is no rhyme or reason to the addict/alcoholic. Add in A�s you just get downright crazymaking.

Insist He quit drinking and work a continuing program of recovery as one of your conditions. Let him get some recovery time behind him before you let your guard down

Go to Al-Anon. Dr H refers us there when dealing with an addict.
.

Nesre

Time to start preparing mentally for the hearing.

If there is no way to avoid seeing him or doing this separately, there is one very important thing to remember:

PLAN B DOES NOT MEAN PLAN RUDE!!!

By all means avoid every possible C or sighting that is within your power to do so, but when for any reason you bump into him or have to see him in court, be polite. Acknowledge him and say hello if he's nearby, or at least smile if he's across the room. Look and smell your best.

Don't be all chatty and flirty and meet EN's or anything like that. Dignified and classy sums it up best. There is a distance, but not a cold one.

Then, VERY IMPORTANT, go completely dark again afterwards so they don't take these little glimpses as an invitation to resume C.

Most of these can be avoided, but certain things like court dates, very important meetings with the principal for the poor kid that is having trouble in school following a separation, a kid in the ER, all those sorts of things do happen on occasion, and that's what you do.

Don't stress too much what he will do after he gets the letter. If he doesn't make C, then fine, you have succeeded in blocking him. If he does, then each time he gets through he is just letting you know an area you need to fix in order to keep him out. Not a big deal either way.

Very good post about alcoholism from Nesre - learn it by heart.

I'm getting ready for work and the home phone rings. I see it is my WH on the caller ID. I just let it ring. I figured he must have tried my cell and then home.

Not more than TEN minutes later his truck pulls into the driveway! I was shakin' on the inside, but thanks to all of YOU, I KNEW to remain calm on the outside.

He is rather furious/upset, hard to tell the difference from his lying face, about having restricted his number on my cell. Of course he pulled the old: what if I have to get a hold of you blah,blah,blah. I told him he could contact someone else if it's really important, or you could call one of your kids if it isn't. Then this conversation:

WH: I just don't get it(dramatic pause)you're texting me and calling me one day and then (ANOTHER dramatic pause)now you don't, I don't get it.

ME: Well WH, I just don't get it either (my dramatic pause moment)oneday your living here with your family...(pause)...and now your not. I just don't get it.

He looked dumbstruck. No, I mean he looked like he was dumb, like he couldn't comprehend what I was saying or meaning. It was quite comical now that I think about it.

He went out and into the kitchen where I found him. I asked him how his week-end went(just bein' friendly-askin a question) he made a not-good face and I asked why? You were out drinking and partying with your friends having a good time, werent you? He said a sad a little 'yeah'. I asked him how he liked sleeping on our air mattress over there and he said he never put it up. He said he was sleeping on the floor! Come on WH cut me a freakin' break! Your sleeping on the floor with no covers and no pillow, just on a carpeted floor? Yeah, I'm really going to buy that horse crap!

As I'm getting ready to leave, he asked again,this time in an alomost stern way, he couldn't undstrand why HIS phone was blocked from my phone. I told him: WH, I love you and it's too painful wondering if your calling, why your not calling, it's too much knowing you don't care about your family. His reply:
(real quiet with his head down) I do care. I almost couldn't hear him so I said 'what' and he said a little louder,but not much,: I do care, told him I had to leave, and as I was opening the door he said: Can I text you at least? I shook my head, looked right into his eyes (looked bloodshot)whispered 'no' and left.

there is more, but..........

I am sooo tired, long day at work (I work in a casino and boy could I tell you stooories) and just want to crawl into my coffy bed...alone...not realy, the doggie sleeps beside me now (he wasn't allowed before WH left. Hey, I love my dog, what can I say?) ARF!ARF! (dogspeak for "goodnight and sleep tight"

Hey Ritzie Mitzie

Sounds like the magic of Plan B is starting to have some effect.



I have to say you did brilliant. Its funny my WH said exactly the same thing, I just don't get it, one day you want to talk to me and now this. Plan B really throws them.

I love your responses too, that had me laughing.

Keep going, you are in the driving seat now. It feels better doesn't it?

Nicely done, mitzie!

Hey Mitzie,

I see your profile is western PA but you mentioned a casino, do you work at the Sand's Casino in Bethlehem?

I live right near the PA border in NW NJ.

BA

Bravissima!

Nicely played! Mail his letter out TODAY, since now that you've told him verbally that you are going NC, you don't want explanations to wait even a couple more days, as that will (in his mind) open the door for further contact and negotiations.

This little upcoming reminder is only for the sake of future readers, and not to beat a dead horse with you : Plan B goes much more smoothly if you deliver the letter and block/change your info all at the same time. Get it all done at once, and you will save yourself a lot of hassle.

So Mitzie, even though your Plan B started a bit irregularly, lol, as long as you get him that letter ASAP it will still pack a pretty good punch. Do not delay, even if you have to call in late to work in order to get it done.

I just have to commend you again on your beautiful response - he sure walked into that one, didn't he?

Hey, What can I say? I have really good teachers!

I am getting the letter out today. I CANNOT go into work late, we work on a point system, and I DO NOT want any points! I have it typed and ready to go into mail. He should get it tomorrow.

What if he brings it up before/after CS hearing on Thursday? How do I handle THAT conversation? Apparently the court schedules ALL the CS hearings at the same time for that particular day, and we may have to sit around and wait for TWO hours! OH CRAP! That's why I wanted to GIVE it to him after the meeting. I don't even know if he's checking his mail yet, most of it is still getting delivered to our house. But I will mail. ASAP

BTW, I don't work at the SANDS. Sorry.

Time to do a little brainstorming. Who might be able to go with you to the hearing? It will be easier if you have someone beside you. Two hours - ghastly!!! If you absolutely can't find anyone, take a good book.

When WH comes to speak to you as he very likely will, you say, "Have you decided to get help for your drinking, and cut OW out of our lives forever?"

WH: "Blah blah blah."

You: (sweetly and lovingly) "Then we have nothing to talk about. Let IM know when you change your mind."

Repeat as needed. (Within reason.)

I can't prepare you for every happenstance, but when in doubt, err on the side of politeness. And once it's over, go back dark and stay dark.

It's time for you both to see the cost that adultery and alcohol have exacted on your lives. He needs to see what he stands to lose if he holds on to his two mistresses, and you need to see what you stand to gain by not allowing either infidelity or drinking into your life ever again.

This is my FEAR. I KNOW what the cost is going to be, my marriage...

He will come to realize I was the best thing that ever happened to him and I will come to realize that I was a fool to let him into me & our childrens lives for so long with his alcohol problem. two frownies for that

I hand wrote my Plan B letter and sent it out after the last pick-up, so earliest he would get it would be tomorrow. I understand the purpose of the Plan B letter is to let him know exactly what he must do if he wants to save this marriage and let him know I am doing what I am doing (not seeing or talking to him)to save my love for him, but I wonder...

Do WS really 'get' what the letter is about? I mean with their foggy minds, can they comprehend it? Seems they would just read it and say to themselves, "Well, I'm not giving up OP, so I guess I won't be hearing from or seeing BS for a long, long time." How many WS read that letter and contact the WSs IM? Do they try and weasle their way back in? What should I expect? Or should I expect nothing?

Tonight I am going to an AL-Anon meeting. I called the director and she was very nice. She said the one on Wed. nights have a lot of people and there is a less crowded one on Tuesday afternoons. I think I feel better being lost in a sea of people for right now.

You can expect he will try to see how serious you are about the boundaries you lay out in the letter.
He will try to communicate with you, see you, keep you as one of his women.
Eventually, if you are dark and demonstrate your boundaries are non negotiable (he can not have contact with both you and OW) he will try to be a one woman man (probably with OW to try it out) and you won't hear from him until he tries testing your boundaries again.
I think part of them comprehends the letter and the part that isn't willing to face no contact with their OP says....oh well....guess no wifey for the forseeable future.

I want to think that this is the way it IS to be.

They get to experience the relationship they blew their marriage for and we get to experience life without the abuse of the affair.

If a marriage reconsiles or not....only time will tell. MB plans give it the best chance of that. Give the situation a strategic advantage that not following the MB plan, you would not have.


You will have expectations because you have had them during the entire marriage but you will learn to release them as they pop in your mind. It is freeing. Not scary. Freeing. You will learn to expect nothing. That is freeing.

If the affair ever ends and the marriage is rebuilt, you will have expectations again. New ones. Better ones. Non naive ones that help create a good future that isn't as vulnerable to affairs.

If the marriage is not rebuilt you will still be in a better place in that you are no longer naive about how love works (love banks, love busting, etc).

Oh Neak,
I SHOULD have RAN to the postoffice!

WH just did a 'POP-IN' to see if he needed anything else for tomorrow's hearing. And to see if I had an extra pillow and sheets for him!! I told him he should just rest his head on OW pretty little shoulder. COLD STARE from peircing blue eyes. YIKES!!!

Then he asked if he could have his favorite couch blanket(he bought it 20 years ago when we were first together)told him no because it's DS2's favorite blanket too. Then I told him I didn't want skank smell all over it(used those exact words). YIKES!!!

Asked him if he was going to file for divorce. He said he thought I was. I told him I didn't want a divorce, when I said I do, I meant it, better or worse. I wanted him to end his affair and stop drinking and come home. No response from him. YIKES!!!

Some other stuff said and I told him he got what he wanted...his FREEDOM. Icy COLD STARE. YIKES!!!

He was going on and on about the CS meeting tomorrow, about paperwork, went out to the truck and got the notice(yeah, I got one too WH)and blah,blah,blah...I couldn't take it anymore...I told him quote:"I hope your new life is worth X amount of dollars a month because that's the price tag you put on DS2's head. That's what you made him worth a month to you." end quote. COLD STARE out the window. YIKES!!!

It didn't end well. He left mad after he tried to convince me to let him pay the mortgage on the house. Told him I got it covered. He wanted to know how, and when I told him how much he was going to have a pay a month total(CS SP & % of mtg), he got mad at ME! I told him he started this...he said he knows and walked out the door. YIKES!!!

How many LB's did I commit in that 30 minute period? Now I've got to go and face him tomorrow, sit accross from him and discuss child support and spousal support and mortgage payments...like it's normal everyday business...

I can only hope that his brain fog is soooo thick that he doesn't remember ANY of today.

AND he gets that letter tomorrow, how's that going to go over?

Love busters or not he most certainly knows how he has hurt you and reality is setting in. Some men have to be spoken to in the most direct terms to understand the errors of their ways.

What is done is done, keep calm tomorrow and stay on course, look the lion eye and don't blink, uncertainty will affect him, he will not be sleeping well for a long time and there is nothing the OW can do to fill that gap.

In Plan A you take the stress in Plan B WH has his turn and he has only one person to turn his negative attention to , not you.

Mitzie

You do make me chuckle! Why on earth would your H want to mess around with somEone else, you sound full of personality!

Try and reign it in if poss you don't want to do any love busters, avoid if poss.

Go tommorow be strong, confident, calm and graceful. The best woman you can possibly be. Don't forget to look hot too!!!

Best of luck

H

I AM full of it...personality...maybe...

My WH isn't messin' round with someone else, he's in 'love'.

WH called just a few minutes ago from someone ELSES phone & of course I didn't know who it was so I answered...

Now I've got to screen ALL my calls?

Anyway, told him I really didn't want to talk to him, I would see him tomorrow at the courthouse. Then he starts...

"I am sorry for everything" oh, really? So now he's responsible for global warming too?

"You deserve someone who can make you happy." Maybe I should marry a clown.

"I can't explain the way I feel about her." So now your feelings are just like dark matter, unexplainable.

He was hinting to getting some SF off me, just let it slide by...

Said tooda-loo and that was that. I was nice enough on the phone with him.

Fog babble.

I am sick of this drama. Spoke to the SO of the OW tonight(he calls ALOT)and was told that OW has tourette syndrome(she has a blinking tic, always wondered why her eyes did that) AND she is bi-polar and only takes her meds intermittenly, like when SHE feels like it.

I don't get it. One of the reasons my WH told me (waaaay back when)he fell in love with me was because I wasn't so needy. Now 20 years later he's with someone that needs constant attention and approval, has medical issues,drinks like a fish and does drugs, has horrible nasty hangovers and, and is a terrible parent! And he can't explain the way he feels about her...

Let me tell you something people. This is the SAME rehetoric I remember from 3 years ago. Oh, I saved all those e-mails, kept the secret phone with the texts on them. Yes I did. Why. Call it intuition for myself. He only feels close to two people in the world (OW and DS2[not wife or DS1 or any family or anyone else EVER]) but 3 years ago it OW#1. Go figure. Now he explains A #1 as an ego boost (told me that when I pointed out similarities of A1 & A2). I could probably state word for word what he's said to OW over the last few months. Same crap that's in those e-mails and texts.

It's getting late. Al-Anon was okay. I'll go back next week.

Good luck today with CS! Thinking of you!

ba

Let us know how it goes Mitzie!

This is easy ...





When a person picks out a "needy" individual as an obsession, they are seeking a counterfeit way to elevate their own stature.

"I can help someone"
"I am important"
"I am necessary"
"Because *that person* is so needy, they will only think good things of me"
"Because *that person* is so needy, they will never leave me"

The tricky thing is, if/when the "needy" person becomes better (less needy) the relationship begins to unravel, because it hinges upon the "needy" remaining "needy".

Think about this during your next Al-Anon meeting.
Your WH is probably not only an alcoholic, but an untreated Al-Anon as well.

Hang in there.
Keep going to meetings.


Try REALLY HARD not to attempt to find common sense and logic in a pile of horse crap.

Those confrontational things you said so well, would have made a beautiful part of a Plan A. (As long as you said them calmly and not angrily.) It probably is not what you want your last interaction to be like, so AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE all such things at the hearing. Do not argue, do not allow yourself to be drawn into the chaos.

And starting now, today, you need to stick to Plan B with no little oopsies. First, change your cell phone # and don't give it to ANYONE who might give it to him. If you don't already have one, get an answering machine for the house phone and turn the volume way down so you don't hear the messages as they're left.

Change your email. If you just block him, he may continue to try and email from other addresses that aren't blocked.

If he shows up on your doorstep, do not answer the door.

If he ambushes you anywhere, do not engage in loving confrontation of the sort you described. It's very simple. WH: blah blah blah. Mitzie: Have you decided to end all C with OW and get help for your drinking? WH: blah blah blah Mitzie: then we have nothing to talk about. You need to leave, now.

If, by some freak chance he answers yes he is ready, you can reply, "When you have moved away from OW and joined AA, give IM a call and she'll let me know. We can discuss it more then."

He may occasionally break through your barriers to C you, but if he does you need to see that as letting you know where you need to strengthen your barricades. So far he's had way too easy of a time. Don't waste any time beating yourself up over it, just fix it and move on.

It's time to concentrate on you.

Today I had my support hearing. It went rather well...for ME!

WS didn't take an attorney like I did. His friends told him he shouldn't waste his money on one. Mind you these are the same people that told him he could file for divorce as a married man with assets for under $400! Well, they were wrong.

I didn't really talk much, just to answer yes or no. Attorney did ALL the talking. Ended up with MORE than we origionally thought! WH will end up with under a hundered bucks a week to live off after all his expenses are paid. Too bad. Looks like he's going to have to cut back on his drinking AND buying the OW's drinks too (yeah, she's gonna loooove him even more now, ha!)

WH was hootin' and hollerin' about how was he supposed to live off that, and what about the personal loan for the car that's deducted out of his pay(we have the title, no proof that's what loan is for-teehee).

Here's the clincher that really got him and an attorney would have benefited him... our DS1 was a half credit short to receive diploma, he's taking a cyber course through the HS and therefore is still enrolled in HS and even though he is 18, by state law that doesn't matter, as long as he's in HS then WH HAS to pay cs for him too! He was VERY upset. I just sat there, let my attorney earn her salary(NOT cheap, but worth every penny) and let the chips fall where they may. This time in my favor.

All in all it was a GOOD day. I only got sad about once or twice. It was kinda sureal sitting in that waiting room with WS right beside me(very small room and it was packed, had no choice)knowing that we still love each other, but not saying a word...I was waiting for that magic moment in the movie where the guy gets up and screams "WHAT AM I DOING!!?? I LOVE U baby, always have and always will!" then he sweeps the woman in his arms plants a big wet one on her and they all live happily ever after...

I guess God IS watching out for me. I was so worried I wouldn't be able to keep the house or the car or pay the bills and take care of my kids, and all that's taken care of.

Now,into a deep, dark Plan B.

After the day WH had to today, then he had to go to work in this freezing cold weather, I'm sure my letter will go over real well ,I'm sure I won't be hearing from him for a while anyway...


Oh, this is really weird. On the way out, after we finalized and signed the papers he was walking with me(he kind of just started walking with me, it was in a hallway, I had no where to go, I was trapped...)and he was nice. I mean, it wasn't like he was trying to get me to do anything about what he had to pay, the state sets up formula based on salary-it is what it is. I couldn't figure it out. I wasn't being rude, I wasn't having a conversation with him, he was talking to me, small chit chat mostly, but he was nice. Not angry like when we were in the hearing or right after, It was very strange...is he up to something...YIKES!

It is kinda funny watching the wayward jumpping in front of the karma bus.

Yeah, he's up to something - he doesn't believe you're serious about NC with him. He was reassuring himself that you will still talk to him. Little does he know...

Time to go very dark. If you haven't changed your ph # and email, this is the time to do so. You want to make it so you don't even know if he's trying to C you.

Protect yourself, and get down to the business of healing.

I agree with Neak ..... this time is for you.

I know you will think about him , I know you will miss him, I know you still love him.

But you stated what he has to do .... do not waver from it. Talk is cheap .... actions will speak a whole lot louder.

Keep the bar high & do not lower it for any reason. You will be tempted but do not lower it.

You will only hurt yourself in the end .....

You know, now that this hearing is over and I know I won't have any financial worries, knock on wood, I feel I can handle Plan B a lot better.

I probably WILL miss him, the him I remember in my mind. No, I know I will miss him. H3LL, I already do. His smell, his eyes, that face he makes when I dance around the room like a wacko...like this: seriously, this is how I dance!

But something is differnt in me, I can feel it.

WH thinks I can't handle financial responsiblity. He always took care of bills and payments and anything to do with money. I always thought I couldn't, something inside me tells me I CAN and I WILL. It's almost now a revenge. Not an A revenge, but something that will eat him up inside maybe more than an A revenge.........FINANCIAL REVENGE.

Yes I will think about him, what could have been, what we could have don different, but mostly I'll be wondering if he's ever thinking of me.

" Yes I will think about him, what could have been, what we could have don different, but mostly I'll be wondering if he's ever thinking of me. "


I understand ...... just don't be tempted to confirm.It will only hurt you in end. Just keep the bar raised high. ((( Hugs )))

Thanks everyone.

Here I am up at @ 2:39 because my loveable, adorable little pooch decides he needs a potty break!

Just a quick question, then I think I'm going to take a few days off from posting. I need to regroup my thoughts, take a little time to read(yes some Dr. Harley in there!), learn & get myself focused.

Something WH said to me right before I started my semi-dark,more like mocha-dark Plan B. I was hugging him, arms around his neck, real close. Of course he wasn't hugging me back(saving those hugs for OW I'm sure)and out of no where he gets a...well you all know where I'm going, anyway WH says to me he doesn't know what it is about me, just something about me that has always driven him crazy/wild in that dept. Now mind you, I have NOT been one in this marriage to to very often initiate 'that' kind of contact, (although when I did I made it worth the wait .)and that was a BIG LB no no for his #1 EN to be met. Hence,in walks OW agressive an on the prowl.

Afterwhile (no SF that night, I remember)looking at me like my old WH, speaking like my old WH he says to me, "I think I'm in love with you sexually" Now I know sex and love are two seperate things. I know men view sex physically and women emotionally. I know you can't build or save a marriage strickly on sex no matter how much of an EN it is for either or both partners. I know WH is 'in lurve with OW emotionally'. But...and a big BUT here...and I pose this question to any sucessful Plan B'er out there: Is his thinking of being in love with me sexually a starting point to get him out of the 'fog' enough to start to, I don't know, think 'unfoggy' thoughts whilst I Plan B? Especially since he won't be getting ANY of his EN's from me. Nada, zip, zero EN's (time for OW to fill ALL those).

I'll probably be lurking in and out, checking archived posts for answers to questions and such. C-ya in a few...Mitzie

Most definitely yes. Even the potential for good SF is a good attractor.

In short, yes.

His memories of you, both sexual and non-sexual, will begin to haunt him over time. If I had to guess, I would suppose that the sexual ones would make it back into his mind first, lol, but eventually so will the others. That can be a starting point for all sorts of healthy revelations, and I hope it will be.

Take a break if you need, and don't be afraid to pop back in if you need.

I know I said I was going to take a little break...well that didn't last very long did it?

Going into day 3 of dark Plan B.

Only peep I heard was Friday Morn when WH called the home phone and I didn't answer. Guess he got the letter.

Saw him driving down the main street of town after that. I turned my head when we passed.

WH did call DS2 on Friday night to see how he was, talked for a minute, that was it. WH didn't call the whole DS2 the whole Christmas break, through the New Year+! Now? Hmmmmm

What do WS do with the PlanB letter when they get it, usually? Do they throw it away, hide it, read it over and over, show the OP, what? Just curious.

(**fact** My WHs OW is much like THE BARRACUDA :They are voracious, opportunistic predators relying on surprise and short bursts of speed to overtake their prey.When I thought something 'fishy' was going on months ago I never suspected my WH was being eaten up by THE BARRACUDA!)

I know that feeling! Its addictive I tell you....

The board keeps telling me that they tend to ignore the letter initially and store it somewhere and then when the fog starts to lift keep getting the letter out to check it out...

Dark is good.

The perverse human tendency is to want them to try all the time to break through, but that really isn't best for us or them.

Mitzie, I forget whose WH it was, but there was one WH who's OW caught him hiding in his closet reading his BW's Plan B letter and where he had hidden it under a floorboard. So yes, I think they DO think about it, often.

After my DH came home he later admitted to me that he compared his OW to me in every way and that they (yes two of them) just didn't measure up. I believe he was sincere at that time because he was so remorseful. Had he said something like that DURING his A(x2), I wouldn't have believed him for a second.

Still in dark Plan B and I was going along so well

WH still trying to get a hold of me via home phone. I don't answer it.

However...last night got a funny txt and fowarded it to ALL on my 'friends' contact list...forgot to remove WH from that list! I took his number off my call list but he was still on my 'friends contact' list! So late last night he got a txt from me, inadvertently yes, but never-the-less...

Setback? Yes? No? This is only day 4 of dark Plan B.

I have a funny feeling he's about to do a 'pop in'. All doors are locked. We live sooo far out in the country that we only have one key for the front door (and it's hanging in the kitchen), and no key for back patio door or garage & I don't think he has either of those.I realise this sounds crazy to people that live in/near the city, but we don't even lock our cars at night! It really is like Mayberry(old Andy Griffith show)

BTW, yes I DID remove him from 'friends list'.

Oh, and PM..you should write a movie of the week based on your story...some of the things that went on(!)...happy ending though

Hang in there Mitzie,

Start to think about what you will do if he shows up, get a plan together.
Good job removing him from your friends list..
You know how it works here, even in Mayberry.........loved that show.......
Come here when you get weak.......
Remember your own words about feeling the power.......I often think of that. It helps me regain my power.............

I'm, oh, about 70 miles outside Mayberry, so I totally get it.

You need to use any additional locks, boards in doors and windows that don't lock, and whatever it takes for you to feel confident that he won't be able to easily get in if you're there.

It's important for your rest and recuperation that you feel safe from contact in your own home. If need be, cancel your home phone and only use your cell, which has had the # changed. The kids can call him from their cells.

Things like that will go a long way toward helping you relax and be able to focus on your own healing.

I was reading Pheonixrising65's story and saw this from Mulan. I posted part of it because I always find such comfort in reading others stories and the advice that is given. It's sad but true, I shouldn't be finding comfort in other's pain and misery, but knowing I am not the only one to go through this awful mess of A brings some releif. My WH has never had to deal with any consequences in his life, ever. There has always been some excuse or he just ignores it(like he's doing to me now). I hope he will see the consequenses of his actions this time.

I thought I would get over not being in contact with WH. This is only DAY 5! I have marked on my calander week by week. I figure if I can get through this week, I'll tackle next week when it comes.

I go crazy trying to figure out something to do on my days off. I spent my whole married life wrapped around this marriage and my family. 20 years of no life is a lonnnnng time..

All my friends are wives with families of their own, I work far from home and the women I work with are married with children and busy lives or very young single 20 somethings.

I do have a sister that lives 95 miles north of me. I talk to her almost daily, but she and her husband own a business and are quite busy. I cannot visit her much due to my work schedule.

Money is tight, and single older friends are non existant. What to do with my time? I do enjoy the library, and browsing the book stores...however...that gets kind of old after a while. I've gone to the movies alone, I've even gone out to eat ALONE(that was more of a test for myself, but I did it).

I mean, short of hanging out with 20 somethings and going to bars all night with them, what do I do? (other then peruse the MB boards all day & night :D)

Any suggestions? I don't want to spend any more free "MIND TIME" harrasing my brain about WH & THE BARRACUDA! I have a very active imagination and it tends to run free & wild if I don't rope it in.

What have you always wanted to do? What have you always wanted to learn about? What places near your home could you do community service and help others? Time to brainstorm, chiquita!

And to add to Neak's great suggestions, what language have you always wanted to learn? Do you sew? crochet? knit? You could make some premie hats and take them to a hospital. I have always wanted to learn how to do origami. Think of some out of the box things and you will find that soon enough, your mind will hit on something.

Take a class in something. It gets you out of the house, you get to meet other adults with a common intrest. How about a book club at Starbu&s?

The class could be at JoAnnes, Scrapbooking USA or community college for about $45/credit hour. If that is too costly there are a lot of online things, but it does not help you with real face to face interaction.

Yeah I know about the 20 year thing. I spin around the kitchen all the time feeling like I should be cooking something!

it is amazing how many of us are in the same situation...WH is with a ho after 20 years of M with us.
Sometimes I think I am going to wake up from a nightmare and it will all be ok again.

I always wanted to learn how to swim, so now I am taking swimming lessons. I have some single friends but they are very few and are younger than I am, they do not call me to go out and when I call them they make excuses. I understand.
I do not like to go out with M girlfriends cuz they usually bring their H along and that makes me feel like I can only relax to a certain extent and then some topics might be too boring for a man.
But yes, find something that keeps you active. I bike every day. You could take walks or do excesise tapes...I know...It does not sound exciting.
But sometimes forcing oneself to do things just to do them can be frustrating. So try to do nothing and see what your gut feeling tells you...
blessing

Today was a terrible day for me, emotionally.

Just seems like everything is building up inside. Trying to keep it all together for the my kids and being all Dark and Plan B'ish, it's hurting.

Had to go to WalMart. Terrible snow, but I had to go, just had to get some throw rugs for the kitchen...

Get to WalMart and I start to have some kind of panic-attack. I start thinking 'what if they're here shopping for stuff for WH apartment?' 'why did I have to go out looking such a mess, what if he's here', all kind of crazy mental-stuff spinning round in my head.

Get my da*n rugs and get OUT! Sit in car and...waterworks...

I was sobbing so bad I couldn't catch my breath!

Then I start the screaming(at my invisible WH) as I'm driving down the highway (goodness I must've looked wacko. Redfaced, messy haired lady screaming in her car, shaking her head, driving in the snow like a maniac!) And I still had to stop and get DS2's dinner!

With the way my emotions are up and down and the mood swings...I don't know if it's post A or menopause, lol.

I almost called WH. Almost. However, I did do a drive-by(sorry, it was insanity I tell ya, insanity). I wondered if WH ever takes the long way home from work and drives by on the main road to look at OUR house?

I know this is only day 6 of coal-black darkness and I don't think I was cut out for being a BS.

I don't like having all this responsibility thrown on me. WS gets to live in a fresh new apartment, have a girlfriend(even if she is skanky), have no responsibilities toward home or children. He leaves with all these home improvement projects not done, a leaky bathtub fawcet that needs reworked(my water bill is going to be outrageous), in the dead of winter. See ya, Mitzie! Have a nice life! Take care of the boys! Keep up the house payments! Keep up the house maintenence! Wish me luck in my NEW LIFE! I'm FREE! I'm FREE! YIPEE! I feel used and abused and I can't help but be angry.

I want to call him. I want to scream in his face. I want to smack him into reality.

Instead I post and rant and b*t*h here. I don't care if anyone listens. It feels good to get it out.

Going to bed to read a new book: Transcending Post-Infidelity Stress Disorder by Dinnis Ortman, PhD. I remember when I used to read novels before bed...now look at me, all snuggled up with a cup of tea reading about Post Infidelity Stress Disorders

{{{{{{Mitzie}}}}} One day at a time. You can do it.

((( Mitzie )))

Have you made a "God Box" yet?

I recommend you make one.

You've got a lot to put inside.

So that was you...

Mitzie

Just backing the bus up a little........

Quoted by Pepperband



I am one of those so Pep knows what she is talking about. I love an alcoholic too. I worked on my own sobriety first and then I began the Al-Anon program. I know of very few alcoholics that practice both programs.
I was blessed to find my AA sponsor at an Al-Anon meeting. He insisted when we started that both programs (AA/Al-Anon)are the same and I found it hard to believe at first.

He was right. My first struggle is with alcohol-second CONTROL over people places and things. I struggle more with the second now than the first. If I dont take extreme care of the first one the second one will not matter.

Have you read this?

Make sure to read the whole article all the way through because Dr Harley is talking about US WHO ALREADY LOVE AN ADDICT/ALCOHOLIC. The co-dependency movement may wreck a "normal" M but the movement came about FOR US to PROTECT ourselves from the harmful effects of a using addict/alcoholic.


Quote Mitzie



Just wanted to post to you so you know you are not alone... I am listening.

Nesre

Thanks for the laugh. I just about spit my coffee out!



Thanks Nesre. Yes, WH is an ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics)who is an alcoholic himself. Tried to tell him this, tried to help him with this issue. He wouldn't listen because he does not consider himself an alcoholic like his dad was. He doesn't drink hard liquor, he doesn't get mean and violent when he drinks, he deosn't wreck vehicles...so he isn't his dad therefore he isn't an alcoholic.

I am giving Al-Anon a try again. I couldn't go to this weeks meeting, it's a bit far and we had waaaay too much snow(didn't stop me from going to WalMart though, lol).

I did read Dr. Harley's info earlier. It was spot on.

I'm going to clean out a lot of WH paperwork(junk to me), put it in a box and leave it on his front stoop while he's at work. Declutter, declutter, declutter...

Off to shovel the front porch. The same front porch WH just put on in September(one month before EA started). Of course that's not finnished either.

Hi Mitzie,
you never know, but the EA might have started way before you thought or realized.
I just found out that my WH was already having and EA with the OW since the summer of 2007! And I thought it started as EA in February 2008 (they went physical probably in March or April)

So when he was putting that porch he could have been in the EA for months. I think before the A goes physical the WS really tries to keep his normal family life while thinking and obsessing about OP. I think they hope it will go away and that they will soon get their feelings back for the spouse...

Blessing

Mitz, those thoughts and feelings are completely NORMAL.

Is there another Walmart somewhere else where you could shop? That way you wouldn't need to worry if you are going to run unto them.

Also, have you thought about keeping a journal and write TO your WH(things he will not see though)? Tell him all of those nasty things you wish you could say to his face. I often say, on my thread, that my WH is lukcy I am in Plan B because some of the things I have wanted to say would make his head spin.

You're doing great. Listen to Pep and Neak, they helped get me through that beginning part of Plan B.

Stay off his front stoop. Don't you have a crawl space under the house? That goes under the toilet? An attic? A garage?

Pack it up and get it out of the house by all means, but do not play Ms. UPS Delivery Girl even while he's at work.

WILL DO, Neak.

Although I'd like to throw it ALL DOWN THE TOILET! BURN AN EFFY made of his stuff? (everyone, s'mores at Mitzie's tonight!) I do have a journal and writing is theraputic, will do that too.

@Atena,
Who knows how long the EA was going on. I know for years she would give him that look at the bar. He's always there, she's always there, it was probably just a matter of time...although the phone calls and secret meetings didn't start until October, and going through the phone records SHE would call him...skanky homewrecker sleep around sl*t who couldn't keep a man of her own so she steals another (well, I guess he went willingly to the mother-ship and wasn't stolen, technically).

My MIL, in Las Vegas, divorced 8 years ago due to a WH.
She avoided going out in public for years, remember how big Vegas is, just in case she ran into her XH who now lived on the other side of the city. She obsessed so much that it destroyed her mentally and physically. No one could even talk to her without her going off on her XH.

8 years later she is getting better, but we still avoid bringing up anything about marriage, or relationships around her because she might go off on a 3 hour lecture of her XH.

Yes going crazy and screaming is normal. However, you can't let it eat you up, and ruin your life to the point that you can't go to wally world.

I would suggest a pounding stick, or a pillow. Use the pounding stick to smack a pillow on your bed to get everything out, or do Maritalbliss' thing and ram a pillow into a door frame. After your done you feel a little better. Its just good temporary relief. I want to get sapph a punching bag and gloves because she goes through pounding sticks like mad!

Pounding is a really good source to get all the bad energy out of you, people think by holding it in they will be fine, but festering it inside you is like poison...

Haven't you ever notices if you are emotionally drained, frustrated, scared, etc... you all of a sudden get sick??

That's because you hold everything inside, once you pound it out (what ever that might be anger, sad, depression, frustration, etc) you will feel a thousand times better!!

Every time I pound I hear my 4 year old knock on my door and ask "mom are you pounding the dust off your bed again?" it's cute

FYI

I pound almost everyday, it is nothing to be ashamed of at all! Or to be embarrassed sometimes I even scream saying...

No more feeling scared
No more feeling tired
No more feeling like I want to give up
No more feeling that I can't do this
etc....

What ever you are feeling and want to get rid of just say it, that helps even if you want to yell at your husband while you pound go for it

Sounds good.

I have a problem.

WH told DS1 to tell me that he got my letter(aparantly he told him a few days ago...teenagers!) but 'tell your mom I just can't read it right now.'

WHAT THE HECK?

I have been in a dark Plan B for over a week now and he won't read the reason why I can't see or tlk to him?

Is this typical? Why do WSs do this, is it fear(too much reality for their fantasy world)? Do they think it's a 'goodbye' or 'I hate you forever' letter?

Now what do I do? He has no clue why I won't talk to him or see him

Nothing. You are in PB.

Tho tempting, you should never pontificate about a WS thought process.

I think you know.... there IS no thought process. It would be easier to train gerbils to jump through hoops of fire.

I realise I can never understand WS thought process...fog...

I just wanted to know if some WS don't ever read the PB letter, then what...?

Do nothing? Then what's the point of even sending a letter if it never gets read by WS?

Of course, at the time it was sent I had no idea WH was NOT going to read it.

It's so frustrating. Guilt on his part? An old proverb:

A GUILTY CONSCIENCE NEEDS NO ACCUSER

You are doing very well.
I understand your frustration. This would drive anyone nuts.

That is why silence, (not hearing any details about WS) is better for you in the long run.

@mitzie -

Who is the Plan B for? You or WS?

@ Superman(CK)...
ME! ME! ME!


@ BC
I will tell kids no info from dad unless it's an emergency


@Neak
Made my God Box(I think you said God JAR) and don't think it's not loaded already.

@Harmony
WHERE ARE YOU GIRL?!?!

@Atena
Thanks for support

@Everyone else
Thank you from the bottom of my (broken) heart.

Mitz --

He read it. He just won't admit that he read it.
Because then you would be expecting him to DO something, and he's not ready to DO something.

So he's pretending that he's not on the clock yet....

I think he read it too.
If he didn't......he is super man in ability to resist temptation and we know he is not that.

Exactly my thought.

How does someone get a letter in the mail and NOT open it? For all he knew I could have put $500 in that envelope and told him to go buy a new T.V.!

Stupid mind head-games of the WS...what's he trying to prove?

Now I can go about my day and feel really good.

THANKS FOR THE REPLY. IT MADE MY DAY!

now tonight... when my mood swings kick in...off to WalMart to buy a pounding pillow. LOL

Whether he read it or not(I too am on the side of it was read) doesn't matter. You are in Plan B and you shouldn't have known one way or the other. Plug up the hole.

I think Pep was the one who suggested the God box- it wasn't me.

Several people beat me to it, but that doesn't always stop me. The only response you needed to make to that whole thing is, "DS, I am always here for you to talk about your feelings, or things about this situation that make you mad, frustrated, etc. It is not right of your dad to have asked you to pass messages, and I'm sorry he put you in this position. In the future, if he asks you to pass a message, please just respectfully tell him that you aren't supposed to, and change the subject. Thanks, hon!"

Then don't spend one more second of your life worrying about the letter. Once you sent it, it wasn't your problem any more.

My WH can go days without checking his box at school and at the begging of my plan B i used to put his mail in it...now I just put "unknown" on it and send it back....
Anyway, he would not check it for a loooonnnggg while..He just did not want problems.
Still does not...I let him know today thru the IM that I agree on the price of the offer on the house as he does. I also asked him to tell the real estate agent...and he has not yet called her. She finally called me.
He does not even care about his own $$$$ interest!!! His brain is fried..It is so true...not thought process.
Yes he might not have read it cuz for now he wants no problem at all...but he will read it, I am sure.
Blessing

Mitzie, stick with plan B.
I am starting now to feel completely detached and do not care about WH any longer. I do not think i love him anymore.
However, things might turn out for the best for you and remember, there is no thought process and if there is, it is the most messed up and sick....
Stay dark!
blessing

Here is the Plan B letter I sent to WH. I hand wrote it from this copy. I'm sure some of it was long and drawn out, some of it was misleading and some of it could be misinterpreted, but I wrote it from my heart.

My Dearest Husband WH,

Today is your moving day and even as I put words to paper, I cannot believe I must write them to you.

I have made many, too many, mistakes in the past and cannot change those mistakes or take them back. I have made exceptionally poor judgment calls on my part when it comes to money and my total disrespect of it. I have also made mistakes in understanding how important your need of sexual intimacy is, I completely shut you out some of the time, and for this I will be forever sorry. Also, I have not been a very fun recreational partner; I could have tried harder on my part to participate more often in the outdoor activities and the sports you enjoy.

Only now have I been able to recognize those errors in judgments, actions and inactions. I have learned from them so very much. My understanding of those failings has honestly taken me with great effort to take steps that they will not happen again.

The changes I have made will carry with me the rest of my life, as I continue to grow and improve.

You have brought so much to my life. You and I have such a strong sexual chemistry, and every time I see you I want you. You have taught me to love and enjoy the outdoors more than I ever imagined possible. One of my greatest enjoyments is riding your Harley, all snuggled up with my arms around you.

I am more than truly sorry for helping create and feed this environment that made your affair possible. I am the one person who was responsible for meeting your most important needs; and by lacking the right judgment I did little to help in growing and sustaining our love for each other. I lost track of how important sex, financial security and fun leisurely activities are to you. I lost sight of these over the years. I now know I am more than able to meet those needs and lovingly enthusiactly do so.

WH,we have such a long and profound history together. From the way we met at (edit) house, to our first New Years Eve together at the hotel(remember the mess we left!). (edit) birth, where we thought either he or I wouldn�t make it. (edit) birth, you were so HAPPY he was a boy! Our first night in our new home, building the back deck, even you taking me on my first Harley ride�there are so many WH. Twenty years is a long time, we were there together, and we were always there for each other WH.Because I love you so much, these past two months have been very difficult for me. There is pain and deep sadness as I've seen you go to another woman again and again. WH, my love, because of the raw pain I feel every day, the conclusion I have come to is this - in order to protect what love I have left for you, I can no longer see you or talk to you until you end your adultery with OW.

WH, please believe this decision is not meant to hurt you. It is the only way that I can hold on to the love that I have for you. I don't want to lose that love. As soon as you are willing to permanently and unconditionally separate from OW, and get treatment for your alcohol abuse, I will be willing to discuss our future.

It's not too late for us.

I want us to rebuild our marriage and our family. We need to make a new lifestyle that we both enjoy, where we are both happy, and our marriage blossoms. I want to be your best friend and lover, and a wife that you would be proud to have. You know I have always loved you more than anything in life, and would die for you if need be. My love is deep, and my love is strong and I look forward to a wonderful future by your side.

Forever, your loving wife with smiles and ((hugs))�

I have been musing over this for an hour or two.

I know it's just a ploy to make me feel sorry for him. Here's what happened.

I get a call from my friend, the IM. She tells me she is worried about WH. Why, I ask. She thinks he might be suicidal. Where'd you here that from?, I ask.

WH called her and and told her to please call me to let me know 'He needs to really talk to me sometime' and 'he hates his pathetic life',blah blah.

I told her not to call me and tell me these things as I find them upsetting. IM said she understood but was worried about him and his mental health. I told her I really have no say in it, he doesn't live here anymore and he's not my problem. If something happens to him I'll deal with it then.

The IM thought I was being uncaring. I think I need a new IM. She was the only one who would do it.

on a lighter note: I just ate a Lean Cuisnine knock off called Lean Cafe from....where else but WALMART, lol. I was realllly good. Tasted just like LC, but way cheaper. Goodness, I should be on a freakin' comercial.

Do you think you could find a new IM because this one STINKS. Also, if she were to tell you that again, you tell her that if she is really worried about his suicide attempt, to call THE POLICE. If she ever actually does, then I would think that WH wouldn't try that one again.

So think think think. You need a new IM. Who could do it for you? Someone who could even do it just be email. Someone who would understand what their job is.

I agree! It's called denial.

Guess he read the letter, huh?

Yes, the old IreallyneedmyfixandwhenIgetitIcangobacktobeingawayturd.

I agree with Scotty, IM should have called 911 if she was really concerned.

WH is trying to manipulate in the worst way.

Didn't your letter explain HOW he could talk to you again?

I don't think feeling sorry for himself was in the list of requirements was it?

Stay dark hun.

PLEASE get a new IM ASAP. This IM does not get it. She is not even in the same universe as "get it." I would find someone who will remain completely neutral and who will agree to act as a SPAM filter who won't let any of this nonsense through. If your H calls the IM with suicide threats, she should call 911 and not let you know about it.

A bad IM can turn a bad situation into a NIGHTMARE by interfering and acting on her own accord. She can put you through hell by trying to intervene with her own agenda.

Exactly why I got my FOURTH one for my Plan B. I am CERTAIN that this one is the right fit.

Your WH might turn around soon. He misses you or something about the M.
But you really need a new IM. Do not wait.
blessing

@ ML:

I hope it wasn't ME that set afoot the thread on IM's??LOL. I have a new one in mind. Taking her to lunch on my day off & going to get her drunk then ask her...

ONLY KIDDING!!! I am hopeful she will do it. She's a friend and she is someone my WH won't bother or upset (harrasing phone calls & I don't think she even has txt on her phone) (she is 'too christian' for him, go figure.)

@Pepperband

I thought Scotland recomended the God Box, she said it was you, so I just want to give you a shout out:
THANK YOU!

Been putting all my concerns in there. Went to church, lit a candle and prayed. Gave everything to God's hands. I have been feeling at peace for some reason. Well, I KNOW the reason. I didn't even do a drive-by yesterday after work! Said to myself, 'Self, there's no reason to drive by his apartment. God's got him now and HE knows what he's doing."(unlike me) Thanks again for the suggestion.

Yes Mistzie. When you are in Plan B NO DRIVE BYS. Make me a PROMISE. Dunno if you have read my thread lately but you should only promise someone something that is within YOUR control to MAKE happen. So, NO DRIVE BYS. You CAN make that happen and you will feel much much better.

My pleasure.

Yo babes, I am back in toooon! Can see you are doing a magnificent job in Plan B, stop those dodgy drive bys though....

I have got an IM and have 'briefed' her silly, I think I have scared her off, lol. No I am sure she will be fine.

Be prepared for your H to break your PB terms, thats when you will need some strength.

Got a call today from a friend. Another friend of ours' who has been in a cancer battle lost her couragious fight for life.

I was at work and WH stopped by house. Told DS2 he was getting clothes to go to a funeral. Great. This friend was also friends with OW.

I am torn. This woman was a dear friend. WH and I knew her and her husband very, very well. Our oldest children went to school together and played baseball together. I can not NOT go to the funeral. That would be disrespectful to her memory of her and her family. It is a short morning viewing followed by buriel service on Thursday.

WH and OW will definitly be there. What to do?

oh, and that was the FIRST time WH saw DS2 since Christmas and he stayed all of 15 minutes DS2 said! Hasn't seen DS2 since I don't know when. sad.

wow. you and I are close to same age. How terrible to lose a close friend, I feel sorry for you.

I have no idea how to advise you. But I wanted to mention that I am thinking about you.

Understand that seeing him (and OW together) is really, really going to send you back.

I'm so sorry. This is a hard time for you.

Go to the viewing only during hours when WH is likely to be at work. Do not go to the funeral. Send a note to the grieving family, telling them how dear your friend was to you, and sharing a few memories.

Then proceed with Plan B and your own healing/grieving process.

If you decide to go to the services against Neak's advice, you may choose to leave at any time.

I urge you to make your condolences known to the family, then leave early.
Take a friend with you.
Go out to lunch.

Well, it's been a 'long' day to say the least.

I will compact as much as possible:

Went to viewing only. My friend(who was 48 a year older than me)looked beautiful. Fortunatley I was first in-first out, no WH there. However, my friends' brother and his SO are responsible for helping hide the A(WH & OW would meet at their house and spent week-end there), so that was REALLY awkward and strange.

Spent the day taping off livingroom & moving furniture(how many dust bunnies can one have under a couch!). Going to paint it a nice neutral sand color. Was going to meet some people from work but it started snowing so I was waiting to see what the weather was going to be like.

In throught the garage door walks WH! He was comming to take boys for wings. Boys never told me. It was very awkward and strange too. Like he was a stranger visiting my home. Just someone to pick up the kids. I'm sure you all know the feeling. The conversation felt pushed and small talky chit chat like you make with someone in the grocery store line. Weird. I guess I'll have to slip into darkness tonight, again.

Conversation turned to him telling me he was sorry and he has been feeling very guilty(Thank you God for prayers answered). Then he said he's been feeling so bad he still hasn't read letter. LIAR!

I turned the conversation back to this-and-that talk. WH acting all excited about apartment, he hung his dear mount on his livingroom wall, he got some furniture(from OW, but he doesn't know I know this)and got a working t.v., oh my goodness...

Told him that was great, especially since DS2 will be spending next week-end with him. WHAT? WH has made plans for next week-end(he is off fri, sat, sun & mon). Told him too bad, this is what seperated people do, they share their children. WH wanted to know why it had to be his long weekend why not some other week-end. Really WH? Because you cannot have your DS2 sitting in your apartment all day with nothing to do while you are work. Some other words...talk...WH didn't even say good-bye...stomped out garage door and off with the boys.

DSs told me WH wanted them to come see his new apartment. They BOTH told him no thank you. I love my boys.

I think you all were right about him reading the PB letter. Denial. Don't read it, it doesn't exist, don't have to take any action.

Sending it to him in e-mail. He is on grave shift, I KNOW he goes on computer because he doesn't have one at home. No excuses now WH.
What will he use? He accidently deleted it? Whatever.

I know I shouldn't care about him reading or not reading the PB letter, but I do. I poured my heart and soul into that letter. The least he can do is read the thing.

I can honestly say that seeing him didn't do anything for me. Maybe it's the meds but I didn't feel anything. He is like a stranger to me. I really don't know the man. I didn't feel love or hate. Indifference is what I felt.

Forgot this. WH & OW saw me doing a drive by! I just shrugged it off(but boy was I embarrased inside). I deffinately will NOT be doing any drives by again!

Good, no more drive-bys - they have no place in Plan B.

If you haven't already, DO NOT email him the PBL. You are not his mommy, and it's not your responsibility to make sure he reads it. That is just one more C in a Plan B that needs to be much, much darker.

Being caught off guard by his sudden appearance, I can understand that you handled it the best you could. Next time, be ready, knowing that he is going to do this again.

WH, suddenly appearing: I am here to pick up [the boys, my potted plant, my pedicure set...]
Mitzie: Have you decided to end all C with the OW for life, and get professional help for your alcoholism?
WH: I can't believe you're still harping on that stuff!!!!
Mitzie: I'm sorry, we have nothing to talk about at this point. Please send word to me when you change your mind.

Then go inside and lock the door, leave, do whatever you have to do to get away WITHOUT re-engaging in the conversation.

Be prepared, and he won't be able to catch you by surprise again.

{{{{{{{{{Mitzie}}}}}}}}} You handled your friend's death as well as anyone could.

Change the locks.
Change the garage opener code.

My condolences to you Mitzie on the loss of you friend. I hope your doing ok.

It sounds like you are way past the proactive contact of your WH, now you need to be prepared for the much tougher part of PLan B, the reactive contact (you can't control it they keep contacting you). For me this is the toughter part. How about you?

Get the locks changed for sure and have your 'lines' ready when he turns up.

Listen to me the expert.

Goodmorning!

Herein lies my problem. I was 'lead to beleive'(should always listen to my gut) that OWs mother knew WH was still married.

I now beleive otherwise. OWs mother may have been told WH is divorces or is almost done getting one.

I guess OW was boo-hooing to her mama about WH not having this or not having that because big-ole-ex took everything! That's how she's manipulating her mother into giving her money!

My question is: since this A has been going on since October, 3 months already, is it too late to call OWs mother and expose?
When does it cross over from exposer to vindictiveness?

I would simply call the woman and explain the facts: EXAMPLE: He is not divorced. We have not filed for divorce. We have no future date set up to file for divorce. He is married, we have two children, he has adult child from prev. relationship and has two grandchildren. I want to save this marriage but am finding it difficult when your daughter is in an adulterous relationship with him...

What do you all think? Too late for exposure? Is it vindictiveness on my part now?

I would call either she knows or will know once you have finished. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose by telling her.

I think ~~~> PlanB- 1/1/2011

I am always so confused when people ask questions like this because I don't understand what being "vindictive" has to do with it. Shouldn't the decision to act be based on the merits of the exposure? You have good reason to expose the affair to the OW's mother and should do it. I don't understand the question about vindictiveness so I can't address that.

But yes, you should expose to the OW's mother and anyone else who might be influential.

Hi Mitzie

Definetly expose, its never too late as long as you are still married.

What is vindictive about exposing this nasty affair for what it is? Do you think OW thought about that when she got involved with your H?

Consequences suck for OW and WH but too bad.

It will cause more chaos in affair land. Let us know how you get on.

Your doing great, love the fact you keep your sense of humour...:)

Hey MITZIE

i EXPOSED/REEXPOSED recently when as another member on the board put it "Manna from Heaven" fell on my lap. Didn't feel one bit vindictive-JUST GETTING THE TRUTH OUT THERE.

Deep down you know what your plan is and you are doing a great job following it.

Read your whole thread last night. You are so bleesed with the good help and advice you are getting from posters here.

nESRE

Mitzie, definitely expose and then go back to a seriously pitch black Plan B because you know once you expose to her, you WILL hear about it if you don't have your Plan B gates locked tight.

Don't worry about the fallout from exposing to OW mom's, not your problem. In fact, you should never hear about the fallout until and unless your WH meets your Plan B terms and you begin to recover your marriage.

Don't expose if your motive is only to get a reaction. Be honest with yourself about your reasons. You can't play around with Plan B, it will mess you up.

(((Mitzie))) I am so sorry for the loss of your friend.

I need to add this-

I am not currently in PLB. I would not go out of my way SINCE YOU ARE IN PLAN B to expose to OW's Mother. Remember PLB is for you.

Should the opportunity present itself at some point in the future I would not be shy to let her know the truth.

FOR ME it would be a shot and see if something hit. In other words do I or will I get a reaction.

JMHO should WH hear of it I think it gives him the shot of "Mitzie still cares/ Mitzie is still tyring". Not Plan B stuff at all.

nESRE

Just Be Still



Good read

nESRE

I re-exposed even during my d. It was good imho getting the truth out there.

I don't think it's a bad thing to do. Just remember in plan B, you could care less of the fallout. It's for the OW to have to deal with, not Mitzie.

Keep on being strong girl! Let the ws and ow deal with how to respond to THE TRUTH and the ugliness of their actions.

The advantage of any exposure done during Plan B is that you have protection in place to guard you from the fallout.

This is not aimed at you, but at readers who may learn from this: never assume that important people in your, WS's, or OP's circle already know about the A. Expose to everyone at once, even if you're pretty sure they've heard. Get the truth out there as early as possible, to as many influential people as possible.

Mitzie, since you're basically doing a retrofit, I would advise you to do the exposure, BUT with the very clear goal of staying dark. Don't leave yourself vulnerable to an ambush by WH. Determinedly resist your mind's efforts to be drawn back into the chaos, or to worry about how this will be received.

Do it, and move on. Don't dwell on it for even two seconds once you finish.

BINGO!! Awesome post, Neak. Exposure in Plan B is fabulous because you don't have to deal with the fallout. The infidels have only each other to lovebust!

Thank you all so much for your condolences. They mean a lot. She was a great lady and will be missed.

@ Nerse
The 'Just Be Still' was wonderful. Mom would say ALL THE TIME "just be still Mitzie" but in a very calm reasuring tone. I carry that with me now. Say it at least a thousand times a day to myself. But I always ask myself why. Why be still? Shouldnt' I be taking action? God gives us answers in the most unusual places at the most unusual times.

I was waiting to see what everyone had to say about the exposure. I really don't want to seem vindictive,not to 'them' I really don't care what 'they' think, in the sense that the woman just lost her husband a month ago and why upset her more.

However... that being said...I really think for my own peace of mind, I have got to tell the woman. I hate liars. I hate people that
deceive. I hate people who manipulate and I especially hate people who lie and decieve and manipulate their own mothers! My mother has been gone ten years now and what I wouldn't give to have her back. When a person treats a parent with such disrespect they don't deserve any respect in return, from ANYONE.

I found an article on the 'net that was written by a psycologist about the 'journey' of a WS. It basically said that there are certain 'stages' a WS goes through before, during and after an A. If a WS is allowed, or condoned during any of those stages they get stuck in that stage for as long as they are permitted to do so. I do not condone what my WH is doing therefore, let the chips fall as they will.

Right now I really don't know if I even want WH back. Maybe it's because he's an alcoholic who is probably using drugs and I don't want him around the kids. My home is much more peaceful(well, with a moody 18 year old that thinks he is the 'man of the house' now and knows everything about everything...a little more peaceful, lol), there isn't that 'depressed' feeling that hung in the air all the time. We are setteling in to our routines well. We speak openly and honestly about "DAD" and what's going on.(I don't tell them my opinion of course but they are allowed to express theirs). It's a different life now. A much calmer life. I kinda like it.

I am going to call this evening from work. For some reason I feel much more confident at work than I do at home. Pray I can get the words out in the right way as quickly and to the point as possible.

By jove, I think she's got it!

Finally got the nerve to call last night.

It ended up the wrong number. Apparently numbers on the internet are not up to date?

I don't know if I should send a letter or think that was divine intervention, just let them self destruct. Stay in Dark B.

WH did come by home yesterday, DS1 & DS2 told me. He came to get his rifles. I didn't want them in the house and told him last week when he came to take boys for dinner. WH owes me money for paying the car insurance this month. I thought he might have dropped that off too. No such luck. I'm sure I'll never see that money...

Neighbor called me this morning. Told me the other neighbor down the road (WHs good/best buddy)told her how much WH had to pay me each month!! WH is playing the "poor (literally) me" card. He had to tell the biggest mouth in the neighborhood! Of course he did, he wants everyone to feel sorry for him and make me out to be the 'bad' greedy wife. The nerve of some people!

Guess he's gonna find out how much it really costs to keep a wh*re happy. It'll be more than a couple quid (for you Harmony :))a month I'm sure.

Poor me poor me POUR ME another one!

Mitzie

You don't have to answer this-I am just courious-

Has your WH ever sought out on his own any type of treatment, counseling or has he ever just plain went on the wagon after a bad event?

nESRE

This trickle of WH getting stuff needs to stop. You are not his funeral clothing gun boutique. If there's anything else truly important still there, you may (but not must!!!) get it together and leave in the garage or something.

But this whole popping over all the time to get this, or that, or the other thing, just isn't going to fly.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other about how far to pursue OW's mom at this point. I think if it was me I would try a few basic places to find her, such as Facebook and zabasearch.com, and maybe one or two others. I would not use every resource in the world or obsess over finding her, but make a short, good-faith attempt.

If you are going to think of her feelings, think how she would feel, if she is a decent person, if she has been lied to in her face over a course of months, and grown fond of the person she thinks WH is, only to find out she was betrayed by them both.

If you can find her without excess damage to yourself, she should know the truth.

Enjoy and soak in every moment of your peaceful lifestyle. WH can only come back into your life if he's willing to add to the peace, not break it up. No more chaos!

Nesre: You are FUNNY!

And NO WH has NEVER quit, nor tried to get help. So the answer to your question: NO

I'm sure that doesn't bode well for me...since last October what has?

I have composed a quick letter to OWs mother:(here is the body of letter)

I have tried to reach you via telephone but was unable to do so, therefore I am sending a letter to you to advise you that at the present time your daughter OW is engaging in an adulterous affair with my husband WH whom has subsequently moved out of our family home due to the affair.

I do not know if you are aware of this situation or if you condone such behavior or what your daughter OW has told you about the state of WH and my marriage, however, you should be made aware of the facts of the ongoing adultery.

My husband WH and I are NOT divorced. We are NOT negotiating a divorce. Neither of us have filed for a divorce and as of todays date neither one of us has any plans to do so.

My husband WH and I have two children. WH has three children total and two grandchildren.
The family is devistated at the lack of moral judgement on all parties involved in this affair.

As you know these types of adulterous affairs never end well for anyone involved, especially the children.

I love my husband WH very much and will do everything in my power to restore this marriage regardless of the
current situation.

Please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely

Factual and to the point. Doesn't sound vindictive to me. Too bad of the outcome. The more and more I thought about how that piece of scum bottomfeeder has lied and manipulated EVERYONE she comes in contact with...OOOOHHHH my BLOOD BOILS.



UPDATE; sent it last night. sat infront of post office 20 minutes talking myself out of it. Couldn't talk myself out of it, threw it in box and drove away.

"OH, I'M SORRY WH AND OW. IS IT SELFISH OF ME TO MAIL THAT LETTER AND NOT CARE WHO MIGHT GET HURT BY IT? TO H3LL WITH EVERYONE ELSE, I DID WHAT I WANTED! IS THAT WRONG? SHOULD I HAVE TAKEN OTHER PEOPLE INTO CONSIDERATION BEFORE WENT AND DID SOMETHING FOOLISH?"

*BUMP 4 FEEDBACK*

Are you going to Al-Anon?

I am.

Last meeting, we discussed how sometimes we "give away" our serenity as if it was the salt & pepper sitting on the table and our alcoholic said:
"Please pass the salt & pepper."

So, we do.
We reflexively hand over our serenity and then feel badly about ourselves for doing so.

Isn't it funny how our alcoholic never says "Thank you" when we pass them our serenity out of habit? Or out of our wishful thinking? Or out of our desire to control/manage the outcome?

One of the reasons MY response to your exposure question was to simply remind you that you are in plan B is .......
To me, Plan B is very much about your serenity.
BE CAREFUL how/when/to whom and under what circumstances you risk your Plan B serenity.

I'm not saying the letter is/was a mistake (nicely written letter by the way).
I am saying always keep your serenity in mind.

Hang in there sweetie.

The way I see it exposure of lies & deceit is always good. The only ones who suffer the consequenses are the liars/deceivers.

I am in a very very dark PLB right now. All contact has been stopped/blocked/discontinued. I don't have to deal with the fall out. DS2 going to WH Fri/Sat night...got someone to take him over. Right now I have too much going on here in my own home to worry what's going on OVER IN FANTASY CAMP!(nothing major just unfinished businss & broken stuff that needs done. Thank goodness for dear ol' dad!)

Let them deal with a HEAVY DOSE OF GOOD OLD REALITY! Can we say LBers everyone?

Alanon this afternoon b4 work.

Words to live by.

Hiya Mitzie!

Just a brit popping in here!!

Good job for sending the letter, it was nicely written you came across really well.

Be ready for the backlash (all good by the way) and don't let it break your plan B.

Be ready for it Mitzie!!!

Harmony.

You've already let the letter cut up too many moments of peace. Let it go. It's done; don't give it another thought.

What are you cooking for supper tonight?

Neak...paleeze...I have great teachers here on MB. I can recognize fog talk a mile away!

Its done. I Wont lose any sleep oer it. I don't owe ANYONE in any proximity to this A any explenation.

Honestly I still love WH but this peaceful time(although a bit lonely)is wonderful! My stressful job is seeming less stressful. I've started working out-gettin' toned baby! Going back to school if work will around my schedule. Where as WH chose to change his life the worst way he could I'm going for self improvement.

serenity....

Hey Mitzie

You might just be joining me in the benefits of Plan B heaven...! Its feels good doesn't it? After what you have been through you deserve it, Plan A yourself, have you ever read the goddess thread? Time to up the glamour stakes lady!

Its hilarious, I will bump for you...

Really pleased to see your feeling better.

Bumped the Goddess thread for you Mitzie.

Well, the letter was recieved yesterday. Not as much fall out as far as I can tell. Nasty text from her(forgot to blok HER on my phone) Text to kid to give to me fro WH,(which didn't bother me at all) here is what they said:

OW;Blah blah blah...don't involve my 76 year old mother in my problems...blah blah blah...get some balls and call me blah blah blah...(this after she tried to call and I sent her to vm)

WH; PLEASE DO NOT INVOLVE OW MOTHER. SHE HAS ENOUGH PROBLEMS

My questions: She considers adultry a 'problem'? WHO exactly has the problem WH is refering to? OW or OW mother?

Who cares? NOT MT PROBLEM!!

But Mitzie, you DO have some cajones and you showed the ow your exposure WORKED! (doin' little dance).

Lovely plan B so far. You are a goddess! Now enjoy the peace and let the ws and ow scramble to have to defend their sleazy affair. It won't end good for them.

Just sit back, take care of yourself now!

How weird is this...AC/DC's 'I'VE GOT BIG BALLS' started playing on the radio right after I got that text!And that was a station I never listen to.

I've always known that


GOOD!Just takin' care of business...

That ac/dc song always cracked me up.

But you've got the "biggest of them all"!

Ah. enjoy the peace. Wanna know what one thing I did each and every damn day since I went plan B with xwh?

I took a bubble bath. A warm, frothy selfish bubble bath.

And it was/is good. A goddess "thing" I do each day and have done since then. Hmmm. Funny thing, but the goddess thing stuck with me too!

Translation? Bullseye!!

Yep. You did great by hitting that target head one. You can never do enough exposure imho.

I had to expose before the advent of FB. It was basically me finding out where she lived and had to ask around about who her relatives were.

Found a relative (female) living next door to her. I figured it might be her mom, so I hit that target. Called up, a female answered, and I read her the riot act about monkeyho.

Turns out it was her very sick and elderly grandma, who proceeded to go next door and yell at her ow granddaughter and tell her she was leaving her out of will if she didn't end it! Go grandma! (that's what grandma told me and the ow bellyached to my xwh that I was so mean calling and upsetting her grandma and that grandma yelled at her for several days).

See? Nice and decent folks do not condone affairs and breaking up families.

What are they complaining about!

You only were spreading the good news that her daughter is involved with a married man.

You would think they wanted to tell the whole wide world the news.

What is wrong with waywards or should I say asswards (azz backwardz)?

What color is your Cape of Power?

Right now, in plan b...like Harry Potter, I wear a CLOAK OF INVISIBILITY!

Now you see me(letter)...now you don't(where'd she go?)

Hey Mitz

Keep that cloak on! It definately will help with serenity.

My situation changed this weekend, I can't stay around all of the sick people. No way to get out of the drama and crap that comes with it.

Keep your PLB tight. Son passing through messages from WH isn't good. DD already is passing some to me. I blow them off and just keep reminding her I am having no contact with WW until the conditions of my letter are met.

Good target though. The truth is out there. Whether they want to believe it or spin it around is now up to them.

God Bless

nESRE

Got home from work and I could 'sense' something was weird.

Went in bedroom to change and noticed a shirt was missing. Now this was no ordinary shirt mind you.This was a STEELER shirt that I bought WH. DS1 was up and I asked if he took it to wear to work. He didn't. Asked if his dad was over, he was.

I was livid! How dare he walk into MY home, go into MY closet and take a shirt that technecly was MINE.

Long story short: when I packed (really just threw stuff in garbage bags,haha)his stuff a thought occured.ALMOST ALL OF HIS CLOTHES WERE PICKED OUT AND BOUGHT BY ME! SO i kept the sports shirts and some others. OW likes the way he dresses? She best get used to them, cuz he hates to shop.

Anyway, DS1 had called his dad a day or two ago(something about his car) and he told his dad that the tub doesn't leak anymore. Apparently WH wanted to know who fixed it.DS1 told him he hadn't a clue. I thought he was going to come by to check it out and ask DS2 who fixed it. That didn't bother me...the taking of that shirt DID.

I'M GONNA GET BLASTED HERE, BUT...I SENT HIM A TEXT...I KNOW...PLAN B...NO CONTACT...I KNOW...

Text: Do NOT come to house without first calling me. U gave up just
walking in when u walked out

I don't care about relapse and he shoulda been told though im. I WANTED HIM TO GET MESSAGE FROM ME!

He's not going to get his EN for family met in a house I'M now forced to pay the mortgage on. NO WAY, NO HOW BUDDY. You wanna see your kids? Call DS1 to take them over your place or meet them somewhere.

If you can't tell...I am angry ...sick of his selfentitlement, sick of his I'LL BE A DAD WHEN ITS CONVENIENT FOR ME. ME...ME...ME

And for those of you interested,,,I fixed the leak all by myself !! Pulled out pipes and everything...I was even rockin' the plumber crack!

Be kind with the 2x4s. I'LL BE FINE

Why haven't you changed the locks?
Please explain.

I asked my atty about this. In the state I live in (PA) it is illegal to change locks if spouse is on mortgate/deed without a court order injuction.

At that point I would have to prove he is a danger to people in home and/or would invoke damage to marital property. This would involve hiring an atttorney, filing court papers, court costs and it takes time...unless he is a threat...which he isn't...he's just an adulterer...not a valid reason in my state.

Now whether WH knows this or not I don't know, but I don't have the money to hire an attorney, nor a locksmith, or buy a new front door lock. My house payment is due in four days.

DS2 is soooo desperate for his dad's love and attention he would just let him in and I'm not home 5 nights out of the week to supervise.

If I told DS2 to not let him in, he wouldn't listen(DS1 doesn't care one way or another, he's 18 and hardly ever home anyway), that would just teach him to lie to me about his dad being there. I would rather have an honest son with a father who doesn't understand boundries than a WH who can't legally come into my home and son that lies. That is why the locks are not changed.

I would like to put up an adult electric shock fence around my house, but apparently that is expensive and illegal also.

Just called my NEW IM. Told her what happened and she said she would call WH and tell him he can't come over without calling her first so she could verify if it was okay. New IM is all about me staying away from WH. She said to me "the less you see of him the better you will be". I told her I felt bad involving her in my marital problems. What a nice woman, she said she'd do whatever needed to be done.

Mitzie!!!

Lady!!

Come on what are you doing? You know how much I hate them but no sweet talking is getting you out of it....



Get dark, stay dark and do it for you.

Small slip up...

Get to it.

However...

Thinking of you.

Read your local news.
Look for incidents of crimes committed inside people's home.
Email links of such incidents to friends/family writing about your concern for your safety as your WH has moved out and you are worried that your home security has been compromised because you come home to find things are MISSING.

Write to friends/family that you are considering new locks for security purposes, based on MISSING ITEMS and the unsettling news about local crime.

Of COURSE you can change the locks on YOUR house.
If (and that's a big if) WH asks you for a new key after you change the locks, then you might have to provide a key for him IF he is paying any of the bills/mortgage.
If he is not financially supporting the home, tuff toenails.

Change the locks.
Wait to see if WH asks for a copy.
I bet he does not.
Wayturds are lazy.

Change those locks Girl!

Who cares whether you are not "supposed" to. Husbands aren't SUPPOSED to cheat either. We're dealing with new rules now!

Have you ever heard "its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission". Same deal here. Change them. If he makes a stink about it, give him a key. Most likely he won't.

Buy several of these ....
Like you see in hotels .... a "door guard"



Install one at every entry door and one on your bedroom door, for good measure.

Of course, these are only good when you are inside the house, but you can change the lock to ONE outside entry door and install these door guards everywhere.

That way, you come and go only from the door where WH does not have the key.
You keep the door guards (on all other entry doors) working whenever you leave .
WH has a damn house key, but a lot of damn good it will do him.

ITA with Pep and Lexxxy. I would say change the locks and let HIM ask for a key.

I have faith that someone who can fix a leaking tub can change some locks.

That's funny Pep!

Same laws apply in our state as in PA.... My wife changed the locks anyhow! The worst that could happen was she would have been ordered to give me a key. It was the best thing she could have ever done!!!. I never asked for a key either, nor did I even mention it! I was such an ___ ____ !

Your Taker is the one who texted him, she is poised to be p*ssed at stuff.
Don't let Taker break Plan B. Tell Taker to stop that and let things roll off her back for the greater good.

Okay?

Really, his coming on in and through and taking the shirt isn't that big of a deal, it just showed you the weak part of your castle and you need to batten the hatches so they are less vulnerable.

First, I will tell you I understand about locking the door. This is NOT going to keep WH out of house when DS2 is home. DS2 LISTENS to his father, if his father says, "DS2 you know this is my house, let me in", he's gonna let him in. I asked DS2 if he would let his dad in if I wasn't home and I didn't want him in the house...his answer "yeah, he's my dad"...so there lies the problem...locks or no locks, kid's gonna let his dad in.

Now I've got another BIGGER ISSUE.

PLEASE HELP ME!

I couldn't STOP my TAKER!

Just happened to be checking craigslist to see what I could get if I decided to sell my car and what do I see? An ad for my car! Placed there by WH only 5 days ago!!!!

Well, I'm sure you already KNOW what I did...I couldn't help myself, really...got on the phone and called WH.

Asked him if he was trying to force my hand and make ME file for divorce by putting that ad on craigslist when the attorney told him at the child support hearing he couldn't because it's marital property and that has to be decided in a divorce settlement?

His answer a quick "NO"

Then I just let him have it...it came spewing out like I was possessed. He couldn't sell the car, (he said his lawyer said he could do whatever he wanted), he'd have to get me a car of same calibur(he said no just driveable),told him I was going to have to file and then he'd have to wait 28 months to sell it. Told him that's what he wants that's what I'll do and hung up.

So now I guess I file.

I really am sick of feeling this way. I hate this life. I really just want to start over.

I know you all will say "SEE, WE TOLD YOU, REGRESSION" and I get it.

I can't do PLAN B knowing that the outcome will be divorce anyway. Why put myself through this? People move on.

She's got her nasty ho hooks in him and I know my husband. I know him probably better than he knows himself right now and I know that once he moves on, he moves on. He NEVER looks back. He's done it with family members(especially his daughter-28 years and not ONE phone call to her, EVER! Has only seen her a few times in last 21 years and he has two grandchildren through her)and friends of his. He might try a little harder with his son's but not by much. Don't know if I can live with that type of character trait anymore.

I don't know where I'm going to get the money(heck I can't even afford locks right now )but I'm going to call the attorney tomorrow and see what I can do.

When I file, for myself I will be able to let him go because he won't be able to do anything. Sell the car OR come to home without proper notification.

After tonight I know I can't. I can't let him just do what he wants when it affects me financially. When I file WH will be forced to open ALL financial documentation and all assets frozen (except his personal checking)until D is final. I don't want to play war, but I have to protect myself. I have a fear not only of being alone(I now know that about myself) but also of being alone AND a homeless baglady. NOT FUNNY, I really do!

Sorry so long but I really need help here.

I'm going to soak in a hot tub and then try a pill the DR. gave me to help me sleep. Hopefully I'll snooze quickly.

Yes you could. Of course you could help yourself.

You chose to call him anyway.

I'm not saying that to condemn you because I likely would have done the same in your shoes. "Don't *uck with me!!!"

It was an emotional reaction to his controlling (and cruelly inconsiderate) action.

Just what he wanted.

I'm pointing this out to hopefully empower you.

You do have complete control over you. You can help yourself.

When he pulls a stunt like this again (as he probably will), promise yourself that you won't respond immediately.

Come here and vent. Spew away. Go crazy here.

We'll listen.

First, let me say I appreciate your honesty in recounting what you did. That was not only good and right for you, but beneficial to people who will still stumble across this thread years from now, to learn from your strengths and your mistakes both.

You always can choose. You chose to text, you chose to call. You could have (and should have) allowed your IM to handle both for you.

Also, I would recommend Plan B even for someone who had no intention of R. WS's are too crazy to hang around even if you plan to never ever ever be with them again. Plan B is first and foremost a protection for you.

You keep saying again and again that you know WS, and once he leaves he never looks back. Is WH still breaking into his daughter's apartment, or her mother's, and taking stuff? Does he try and randomly sell their belongings? Because from where I sit that looks pretty backward-thinking. AND IT DOESN'T MATTER!!!!!!!!!!! Not one way, and not the other.

Unfortunately, what you have done is teach WH that you will talk to him if he breaks into your house or does stuff to your belongings. It is going to take lots of hard work on your part, and many more problems that could have been avoided, to re-teach him otherwise.

For starters, even if you have to pick up cans to get one, get a good lock for your bedroom door. Best would probably be a latch and padlock. Sure, he could break it, but you'd definitely know if anything had been messed with.

The issue of you feeling that you have no control over your kids letting him in is huge, though more than I have time to deal with today. Maybe someone else will comment. I will just say that while no you can't stop them from letting him in while you're gone, you can sure stop them from letting him in...without consequence.

Why do you think I suggest DOOR GUARDS like in a hotel?





edit >>>>> REMOVING NONSENSE about a 2 year old<<<<<<

How many exit doors do you have?

Locking devices on the windows too.

She means DS#2, who is a teen.

I'm all in favor of hotel locks, but if she can't afford them all at first, a lock for her bedroom door is the absolute minimum (and not very expensive).

The other locks do need to be purchased, one at a time if need be. Obviously it's best to install them all in one fell swoop if possible.

Bet it's a relief to hear that her 2yo isn't home alone.

Ha !
The joke's on me .... AGAIN !!!

Just a thought, get a club and use it on the car. That way he can't grab it. How embarrassing would that be if he can't drive it when someone shows up for a test drive?

< - - - me laughing with Pep, not at her

If you feel so vulnerable....is legal separation in your state? That would be a good legal alternative to the big D.

Plan B will be good for helping you learn to control said Taker. Taker will not be in the driving seat of your life, you will fall out of the intense desire to communicate with H (all marriages have it healthy or not....it is part of the teamwork) and most importantly you an further sort things out for your future while not being bullied by H.

All together good stuff in plan B.

Tell Taker to take a vacation in the Bahamas in your inner mind for a bit.

Hey Mitzie

A few posts ago (1/26) someone talked about how we (me to-You read my thread) pass our serenity away to our addict as if it were the salt and pepper on our table.

WE just do it. Then we feel bad for doing it.

Im not going to even suggest what you should do. Well-I will make one-

Stay in your PLANB like you told your WH you were going to do in the PLB letter.

I do know that when I am P O'd it is not in my best intrest to make life changing decisions.

Cool down and please come back and tell us whats going on.

Is your WH's skanky POS a ?


nESRE

Hey Mitzie

Whats going on? Love to hear from ya.

nESRE

I have been so busy, haven't had anytime for computer time.

Here's what's going on in REALITYLAND...

The morning after I had my 'anger' call to WH, I called my attorney. There is nothing I can do to stop WH from selling EVEERYTHING and ANYTHING he wants unless I file for D. Here is the catch to me doing that: even if I file contested D WH can just sign off on papers and we will D'd within a few weeks! House would have to be sold, I will lose insurance benefits, ALL marital property will have to be divided...so as far as ME filing-not going to do it...just yet...I'll just wait and see.

Then shortly after WH calls from work on home phone. Wasn't going to answer but I did...sorry..but it's all good...

He didn't mention car, or D, but wanted to know when we were going to file our income tax(he wants money, money,money). WELL, here is the conversation:

WH: Do you have all your income tax statements?
ME: Yes
WH: When do you want to go file taxes?
ME: Oh,I'm sorry WH, I already filed.
WH: WHAT????
ME: Yeah, I did. I filed married seperated
WH: WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT?!?!? We could get so much more money together.
ME: I don't give a [censored] WH. I don't care about how MUCH money WE could get.
WH: I can't beleive you
ME: Oh yeah, AND I claimed the kids on my form
WH: HOW COULD YOU!?! I SUPPORTED THEM ALL YEAR!
ME: It's already done WH. I already filed online
WH: That's not right!
ME: It's not right you left WH. CLICK-HANG-UP

One minute latter: RING, RING, RING...RING, RING, RING...I dont' answer

Now, the thing about me filing seperate is self serving. I really don't care that I'm probably losing two grand in my pocket. I'm getting a lot more than I thought, especially since I took kids as dependents. Before I filed, I calculated how much WH could or would get back with or without dependents, how much we would get back filing together and how much I could/would get filing w/without dependents. It was in MY best interest to file with dependents. It was VERY MUCH to WH disfavor if I did. NOW he won't be able to itemize, he is the only dependent with standard deduction. He is in such a HIGH tax bracket...He'll owe the government more than that two grand I'm LOSING!

Is that being a b*tch?

Last time I posted I was sooo down on myself. I reread it. It made me mad at myself. I read my sig line. It made me feel like I was weak.

NOT WEAK TODAY.

If WH can't live because he hasn't any money, why is that MY problem. Let him get a second job. Let him borrow from OW.

People who have taken a stand in their life: Ghandi,Sojourner Truth, Martin Luther King,Jr., Abraham Lincoln, Jesus all took their stand for something they beleived in and all had at the core of their belief: LOVE

Standing my ground.

I don't even concider it a "plan" as in "PLAN B". It's more of a "I love you WH, you're an alcoholic and you can't be trusted, I can't trust MY emotions around YOU." so I know I won't be calling or picking up the phone or taking texts or texting. It's not even about "power". It's about...serenity...

Dont mess with Mitzie!!

Fwiw Mitzie, I did that too.

YOU rock! I call that definitely applying DA STICK of the MB plan.

And you're right. Waywards need $ to fuel their affairs. Don't give them $. Let them turn on themselves and go dark again.

Ya know I love ya, hun. PLEASE stop talking to him under any circumstances.

(Even when he tries to take revenge for the taxes.)

Neak, I have NOTHING to say at the moment to WH and I don't care to hear what he has to say.

I was thinking about the whole car incident and realised something. This is how conveluted WH thinking is. HOW is he going to sell a car that he doesn't have possesion of? I drive the car, I leave everyday before 2pm and don't get home sometimes until after midnight. On my days off I'm usually running around trying to get stuff done or taking DS2 somewhere.

He would have to let me know that someone was comming to look at the car. His thinking process is screwed up or else I have really been a pushover for him to think I would just let someone come and look at the car and perhaps make an offer and buy it. AND if by chance he found a way around that, I would cause such a scene in my driveway that whomever came to look at the car would surely leave in a hurry!

CRAZY LADY IN THE DRIVEWAY !!!!




I would get-outta-dodge faster than he could say "SOLD".

So in conclusion, I am NOT worried about car being sold and I am NOT going to talk to WH.

Does he have a key to the car?

Does he have a means of getting a key to the car?

If I was you, I'd get a steering wheel or shift lock, just in case. You might wake up one morning and find the car gone. With a lock in place, he'll have to tow the car, which is likely to be a bit more noticeable.

Quote for Mitzie:

Johnny Cash: You're still not talking to me, June?
June Carter: You're not allowed to speak to me tonight, after that stunt you pulled. The only place you're allowed to speak to me is on stage, do you understand?
Johnny Cash: What did I do?
June Carter: I don't know. Why don't you ask your big fat shadow?
Johnny Cash: Come on, baby.
June Carter: [mocking Johnny] Baby, baby, baby, baby, baby!
[June closes the door in Johnny's face.]

Yes I did watch 'Walk the Line' last night!! This quote is apt for Plan B and you right now Mitzie.

Stay strong and you can survive and flourish with or without him.

Till the next time he finds a button to push?

If you're going to make this whole Plan B thingy work - even if it's only for your own personal R and not to R your M - you will need to become completely determined to stay dark.

He will keep trying to get to you, to *make* you respond. But he can't MAKE you do anything. It's your choice always, and you make that choice ahead of time.

If you don't, by default you are choosing to simply react to whatever happens next.

Today at 3:58 while I was driving on a winding narrow road I got a call from my attorney.

WH had filed for Divorce.

He filed at 9 this morning.

It's good that he filed first, according to the attorney. But now I'm going to have to retain her at a fee of fifteen hundrend dollars! If I don't retain her, he can sell whatever he wants and keep the profits.

I'm not protected unless I have an attorney to represent me to stop him selling stuff.

I'm so dispondent

My heart broke and it felt like a peice of me died.

Before he left we said we would wait until DS2 graduated.

I realise I told him the other day that I was going to have to file to stop him selling stuff.

Is this the begining of the end?

Mitzie, I'm currently where you are now. My WH filed and I learned about it on my birthday (and I didn't think he'd get me anything this year. . .).

I don't know if it's the beginning of the end. I'm taking the actions I have to take and have told my lawyer to slow it way down. I want this to last at least a year. My state is a fault state, so my counter-complaint is for adultery, inappropriate marital conduct, and irreconcilable differences. The last one I had to counterfile on, since that was something he filed. When DH filed, we were both slapped with some standard injunctions (state law) that prohibit, among other things, either of us from doing anything to hide or waste the money and assets of the marital estate. Scrape up the money somehow and get your lawyer to file any injunctions he can to stymie your WH. Protect your interests and let WH know you're not rolling over for this.

{{{{{{Mitzie}}}}}}

Good advice.

Don't try to figure out why he filed, whether it's over, or anything. That's not your job.

You worry about you. Getting a lawyer, deciding if you can drag this out or not, and just being your wonderful self. Healing. Growing. Changing. Recovering from living with an addict. Taking care of your kids, getting them help with recovering from living with an addict.

Those things, and others like them are your job.

My state is a 'no-fault' state. If I don't do anything but sign for the certified papers, it will take 24 months from date of seperation for divorce proceedings to begin.(I think, or 24 months if nothing is motioned then the divorce goes through).

So I have at minimun til Oct/Nov of 2012 until I have to actually DO ANYTHING regarding actual D.

Apparently he filed uncontested, quick divorce. $500.00 total.

Ironically, the attorney he is using is the brother of the woman that fixed my mom up with my dad! Her(WH attorney's sister)husband was my dad's good friend. WH atty also represented my sister waaay back in 1985 when she filed for divorce from her dumb teen marriage. He's been around a while but from what I understand he doesn't do contested divorces.

Of all the attorneys in this county he picked the one that knows my family.

Here is the thing I find perplexing. In a million years, TWO MILLION years, I never would have thought my husband would file. I thought I knew him. I know he is an alien. It's just my insticts feel disconnected, ya know? I'm sure trampy POSOW will be soooo loving and nice to dear WH now that she's got him to file.

Getting the retainer together is going to be tough. It's going to take me a couple of weeks if not more. I have a hefty mortgage due in a few days, my electric is due(my house is ALL electric-ouch!)AND my lovely DS1 got a replacement phone and didn't return the broken one until it was too late and now I have an almost $500 cell phone bill!!! Oh lordy, my life feels like it's crashing down around me.

Time to go stuff some notes into my OVERSTUFFED G-D BOX

Ok. What you do after you get the attny is file, and then CITE some grounds even if it's a no fault state. State that the irrevocable breakdown is because of infidelity.

Show ws is squandering assets because he's having to fund an adulterous affair.

Judges hate men/women who neglect their families and pay for their "soulmates" rather than their spouse and kids.

Don't worry. Just retain and respond. Your wh will freak when he finds out you're not lying down. You need time to heal from living with this person, who has believe it or not, hurt you time and time again.

You have the time to decide what it is MITZI WANTS TO DO. I can bet if you countersue and drag it out, the posow will get antsy and begin LB'ing all over the place and then it's death to the affair. Oh yea, also have your attny make it clear they will DEPOSE the ow ON THE STAND.

Yep. Play hardball. It might just send the skankyho running for her mud and slop pit so she can find another partner for rutting about.

I subpoenae'd the ow. And forever and a day she is named in a legal document showing that SHE and the other ow (who I had deposed and named also) were the co-conspirators in the demise of my marriage.

I did that not only to play hardball back w/my xwh, but so that if we did divorce (and in retrospect I'm glad I did), that my son would see the truth for himself, although he's 12 and already knows what his wayward father did.

It is a good way to always keep the facts straight you know.

Don't sweat anything. He is throwing a full blown wayward temper tantrum. Pooor wittle wayward man. Poor skankyho. Wah wah waaaa! They want money.

Make it tough. Disrupt the fantasy. Send them a little truth and reality their way when you get an attorney and make it a bulldog who has a particular taste for fresh blood right from the jugular vein.

Take it from me. Been there, done that, divorced Satan did I! (that was one of my many names for my x husband. Also called him Darth. Feel free to borrow any of my "pet" wayward names for yours!)

Oh and don't worry about the car. Have IM tell crazy angry money-maniac wayward hubby that since you're both divorcing, the court will not let you disperse marital assets.

Bwahahaha! He can't sell it now if he wanted to. Once again, the temper tantrums of a wayward who can't get $ to fuel his selfish silly affair backfires on him yet again!

This is a tale as old as the world itself. Waywards do stupid things and make rash judgements because they are out of control addicts who are SLAVES to their addictions.

Mitzi, I swear, there's a part of me which believes a full blown wayward seriously lives in a skewed version of reality. Like they are almost clinically insane, making poor judgements, split decisions and mostly bad decisions.

It is his anger only talking right now. He is saying "My money. My money. Not Mitzi, but for me! How dare her take that money for herself and the kids. I have TWO houses to pay for now."

That's their crazy logic. No rhyme or reason. Just all "me me me" 24/7/365 until they are cured of their rectocranial inversion.

Wow. I'd love to have 24 months where I didn't have to do anything about the divorce. But you still do have to protect yourself and your interests. I didn't know about the injunctions until I received the paperwork. Maybe this is an automatic thing in your state, too.

Ever the optimist, isn't he? Typical wayward behavior.

Ditto. One million times ditto![/quote]

Borrow the retainer from your parents or put it on a credit card and pay it off with your tax refund. It's a wise investment to protect your and your children's financial interests.

I am beginning to beleive that now.

.
Cry babies. Of course they want money...they are BOTH selfish and want, want, want. Skank-tramp doesn't work and lives off public assistance and her very meager childsupport, yet she apparently hasen't changed her shopping or spending habits one bit.

My atty is great. She was recommended to me BY an attorney who said if it ever came down to a divorce-my atty's the one she would use. SHe looks so quiet and prim and proper...yet let me tell you...she's a RABBID pittbull!

G'night all...

Mitzie
You don't have to answer this but when planning for PLAN B did you

A. Seperate your financial accounts so wayturd does not have access to yours
B Secure tax information past and present
C. Secure all titles to any vehicles or play toys you may have

I know my wayturd could sell anything WE have but to a buyer it is not worth anything without a title.

Should anything be sold it would be a pain in my Azz but without a title the buyer would have no claim. A bill of sale may save them for about 10 days-Thats how long we have to transfer a title-At the end of 10 days being they would have no title I would be free as the title owner to claim what is mine and take possession regardless of how much money is paid or whatever deal was made. The police would even help me since it would then be considered stolen property.

Remember all items are half yours in the M if you live in a NO Fault state. Here it does not matter whos name it is titled in-Mine is hers and hers is mine-HALF.

Personal property is different and there would be nothing I could do to stop her from taking my tools and selling them. Even with that I would in the eyes of the court be entitled to half the money or if all the money was spent then she would have to prove to the court it went to the benifit of the M. (house/car payment/bills/
Not much incentive to do that unless that is what the purpose is.

Are you sure he can just sell items in your state? I need signed permission from WW otherwise and that ain't gonna happen.

Really dig into this with a lawyer. You possibly could have some rights that may favorably benifit you.

I am certainly not a lawyer and I know all states are a little different with their laws. I just don't belive WH could sell items and take the money. He may be able to do that now but it will catch up to him in court.

Please come back and tell us you have all the big ticket titles secure and in your possession.

nESRE

All accounts were in his name only. He took me off checking and savings about 12 years ago because I was bad with finances. He never trusted me with any money since. I would have to 'ask' him for money and account for every penny spent. Dr. Phil calls these people Money Bullies and that's what he was/is.

Since this is second go-round of affairs, I already knew what needed to be done(it doesn't hurt that I have an attorney for a friend. She may not be a divorce atty, but she thinks like one!). So all titles and pension info, 401k info, all papers of importance are locked away...and far away.

You say he couldn't sell without a title? Unfortunately I fear he may have applied for replacement titles. We have done it before when we sold cars or quads or trailers and couldn't find the title. It only takes a printout from online taken to a notary and sent to DMV. Title will be in his possesion in about 7 days. All titles to everyting are in his name only. Although getting the vin number off my car would be quite hard since he doesn't come around when I'm home with the car & he can't get into the garage where I work without a pass so he couldn't go there to get it. Is there any other place he could get the vin number? From the insurance agent?

Although this is a nofault state and everything is 50/50 that 50/50 doesn't come into play until the divorce. The only thing I can do is call attorney and get her to file an immediate injunction to stop sale. Can't do that on my own in my state, unfortunately. THis is something WH never could wrap his brain around, EVER. That everything WE have, We built, We bought while we were married, HALF is LEGALLY MINE. He was always selfish.

Well, I will cross that bridge when I get to it. Right now DS1's car has some type of major problem. He's got a northstar engine in it and I have no idea how much it's going to cost to fix that!

I know G-D doesn't give us anything we can't handle. But goodness does he think I have the shoulders of Atlas?

And the more I think about WH, the more I think I really don't like him as a person and I really could do better.

This is actually a good part of the process. It just means you won't be willing to take him back unless he becomes a person you could like and respect.

He needs to earn his way back in, and in a big way. Otherwise, even if you're alone you're still doing better.

Poor DS1. He just bought this car, made ONE payment on it and it's got a blown gasget(?), piston(?), something major. He was on his way to work and the thing just died on him.

Couldn't get ahold of IM(must be at church ). DS1 will NOT talk to WH about the car seizing up. He knows WH will have a screaming fit on him.

DS1 called AAA and had it towed home. I went out and looked at the engine & tried to crank it over, no luck. Like I really know anything about car engines...well I DID fix my tub leak

So I called WH. WH, who wants nothing to do with the reality of having children or dealing with said childrens problems, was furious. I wouldn't have called him but for the fact that he

1. picked that vehicle out for DS1, to which I was adamant about DS1 NOT getting because it will cost a fortune to fix if something happens

2. He is cosigner on loan.

3. He is verrry mechanically inclined. He can tear an engine down and build it back up like nobody I know.

Wilst in the mix of speaking with WH, I noticed that he is now using phrases and catch words that POSOW uses. Like, ending his sentences with the phrase, 'real nice'. As in "I'm going to have to look at it real nice". Not sarcastically, just ends sentence like that. I think it's REAL STRANGE!

Anywhoo, WH is going to have to deal with it. He cosigned, he never taught DS1 basic car maitnence (DS2 he has), he's going to have pay $$$ to have it towed somewhere and have it fixed because it's a Northstar engine. DS1 only works at Home Depot, and if he can't get to work he's going to get fired, no job, no money, no car payment.

I'm fine. Phone call did nothing but reiderate my stance on NOT talking to WH. THe way he treats his children is terrible.
Right now I seriously cannot stand the man. And after hearing him talk like HER,

Off to work soon on this SUPERBOWL SUNDAY!

P.S. WH- HUGE STEELER fan. Hope we ruined his day...teehee

you didn't need to call him

You are newly back into plan B-ish and want to cling to the old ways

but

so what IM was not available this minute
so what he cosigned
so what he is mechanical

What if he didn't exist on this planet and you had to manage situations? You should aim for this.
Not grumbling or fussing or anything. Just being still and managing methodically dealing with life's great adventures.

Yes, of course he is using verbage of the OW. He is with her a lot and absorbing the terminology......no?!(the ending of this sentence is what my wh took on from his OW so its an example......no?!) LOL.

Just be still girl.

Go dark again
and
stay dark.

I posted this with total understanding of where you are at. Really.

I should not see a post like the above one unless one of your children was in life-threatening danger.

In the event of a life-threatening injury or illness, and no one else is available to call him, then and only then would I advocate a direct call.

This is not Plan B. Not at all. This is Plan WhateverMitziefeelslikeatthemoment.

Yes unfortunately it is on most insuurance forms/apps.

Take pictures of everything and gather as much data (year/model) as you can for your own records. If he is going to sell something there could be side deals-So much cash-so the wife doesn't know-the rest with a check.

Don't know what you have but at least he can't come back and sell an item for $500 that was worth $4000 and show you a check or some other bumb excuse when the item was worth way more. Courts wont let him do that but you need proof if he "underprices" items. Says it was damnaged-defective in some way. Could only get this much..you get it

Mitzie

Seriously stay dark. The deal with WH and son was HIS deal. Let them work it out. Your son is old enough to talk to his dad isn't he? Let your son come to his own conclusions with him. You said your piece b-4 the car was bought right? Let it work out between them.

Repeated contact through PLAN MItzie is only going to leave you POed in the end regardless if you R M or not.

nESRE

Mitzie, what other reasons to call your WH can you come up with? I could come up with a TONNE of things to call my WH for, let's see, what has happened this year alone?

First, he moved in with OW after leaving me and our children, OH I WAS MAD ABOUT THAT.

He REFUSED to use IMs. Yea, I was MAD, but I also thought it was funny, because I knew that the MBers were right.

My computer connection stopped working, my computer stopped working, my oven stopped working, my dryer caught on fire, my bestfriend's father passed away, one of our friend's(orig IM) broke her hip and was in hospital, my WH dislocated his shoulder and needed surgery, my WH was in hospital with bleeding in his belly from a kidney stone that tore through his kidney, the list goes ON AND ON. Do you know how many times I contacted him about ANY of these things? NONE. Not ONE. How many times did I WANT to? ALL OF THEM. He was my rock. My orig IM, on the day of exposure said, "But you guys are like eachother's ying and yang. You compliment eachother so well." She was right. And when something comes up, I WANT my WH to help me, actually I want my DH, but he isn't there any more.

Mitzie, please, for YOU, STOP CONTACTING YOUR WH.

Great advice, Scotty. I've personalized it for me--it will save some time in the future! (Time saved because I won't contact him, not to save you time because I did.)

Sorry for the t/j, Mitzie. I understand the temptation to call. Really, I'm finding it's a mindset you have to adopt. He is not to be called at all, ever. Unless it involves the death or dire health status of your children.

Just to show that this happens to all of us - I have been in a pitch-dark Plan B since June 2008.

DS23 went to the ER one night
One of the pets died unexpectedly
A hailstorm smashed out both the skylights on my house and damaged the roof
My work computer failed and I had to replace it
DS23's embarrassing wreck of a car is still sitting in the driveway and needs work desperately
The washing machine croaked and poured water all over the floor
The pool-vac stopped working
The drip system for the backyard began malfunctioning and leaving puddles everywhere
I needed a 40-foot walkway put in from the back of the house to the front gate in order to prevent dust and mud everywhere


I could have written that myself. But all the things on the list I took care of myself, either by hiring it done or doing it myself (I put in the walkway by myself). XWH never got one call, ever.


Yes. Plan B means nothing if you keep breaking it. What would you do if he lived in China and had no phone?

You all are right.

Should have handled it myself.What I was hoping was that WH would rush right over here and fix the car so DS1 could get to work. DS1 ended up having to call off.

When I was leaving for work I heard DS1 on phone with his dad explaining what happened to car. That was a good sign right?

...fast foward to me home tonight. Asked DS1 what's going on with his car. DS1 said his dad told him it's blown up. I asked if his dad looked at the engine. Then the poor kid looked at me and said that his dad was supposed to come over but never showed. Ferkin' jerkwipe. OOOOOH I was soooo mad I wanted to jump in my car go over his house and punch is stupid face! (sorry,I'm still a little miffed when I think about that look on my son's face )

How could he do that to his own kid? Now he really is 'one of those dads'

DS1 and I discussed options about car and how to get him back and forth to work and such. We'll make it. We HAVE to.

The one bright spot of conversation with DS1 came when he told me he asked his dad if he could borrow some money to buy a beater car til he could get his engine fixed. Apparantly my WH went on a hour rant(probably more like a few minutes but the concept of time exscapes teens)about how he doesn't have any money and how much he has to pay me and how he has to pay for the car I drive and how much his rent is and on and on about how much he has to pay out for phone and bills and that makes him poor. WH must have been very specific because DS1 knew exactly how much money went for what.

Like I say, no money from WH? TrammpyHo go bye, bye. And I think he knows this. As selfish as he is, not having 'extra' money to make HER happy is going to send her back to trying to win her rich ex back (she's already trying is word on the street).

Putting up a new sig line...my mantra...I'll have to say it like 5 millions times a day, but eventually I will get it.

I like it Mitz. Ranks up there with one of my all time favorites too.....

Don't just do something-Stand there!



Good-Something you do have the ability to help your son with.


WH to SON-Blahdy blahdy blahdy blah.

Son thinking-What a duschebag. Will you help me or not?

nESRE

Mitzie, they all do this. There's no such thing as a WS who is a good parent, no matter what people say. They neglect and lie to the kids every bit as much as they do the BS.

This is another reason for learning to rely on yourself - because WH is NOT NOT NOT reliable any longer. As I said, he may as well be living in China with no phone. What would you and the kids do then?

How funny you would say that. DS1 seems to call his dad that ALOT! I really don't like it, my kids talking like that about their dad and being disrepectful....however...

WHAT A DUSCHBAG!

Well I borrowed the money for the retainer and am going to pay her Thursday.

I wasn't going to do it and just let things stay as they are until something happened. But then I spoke to my friend who is an attorney.

She made some good points about cheating husbands. They don't care about you (already knew this, but it hurt hearing it from someone 'live' as opposed to reading it online. OUCH!). They are all liars(ditto above)and if they are with a b*tch, and since all OW are, they will become a 'b*tch' too. She told me to get my a** to my attorney ASAP because WH can and will do things out spite/anger/frustration/apeasement to OW.

I don't know what he's capable of doing at this point so I borrowed the money and I'll be protected from whatever they throw my way.

Plan B seems much easier since he filed. It's as if I now know the invevidable IS going to happen and I MUST get on with MY life. When I called my attorney's office today they told me they had my copies of D papers. Once I get those in my hands...

Valentines day is gonna SUCK this year! Last year I got roses AND choco covered strawberries and we were getting ready to take our family on a cruise in two months. WHAT THE HE** HAPPENED TO MY LIFE??!!???

mitzie - Sorry to hear about your sitch. I'm with you 100% Valentine's day is going to SUCK! Last year was nice, not great, but this year..well, let's just say doing exposure about a week before the day doesn't help.

Is it wrong of me to HOPE that my WW's Valentine's day will also be bad? We had planned on having a romantic dinner at home - exposure kind of killed the mood for that. :-)

Mitzie:

Thought I would drop by your thread after our chatting on H&G's thread.

Please stay in Plan B. Your DS can deal with his FATHER to get the car fixed.

Yes, you will have to drive around DS, but that is what happens. Darling WH can get the car fixed...

There will be a reason TOMMORROW to call WH. So call him TOMMORROW. Not today.

If he only paid $500 to file, why do YOU have to pay $1,500? You might end up with much better representation, but why?

And do not back off on doing what you need to do. And do not be afraid to have your attorney ask for the sums to be garnished from WH's pay.

I can see WH deciding that he doesn't have to pay Mitzie all THAT this month....

So stay dark...

(((Mitzie)))

LG

WH filed a quickie uncontested divorce. Just to get the paper out there. This kind of D is usually filed by married people without any assets or children. I am NOT filing, don't have too for 24 months. The $1500 is the retainer for the D. It will cover me from now until 2013 when I have to file. If WH does nothing for 24 months and leaves me & kids the h#ll alone then the $1500 goes toward D. If he pulls any Sh*t then I have my representation to stop him and she pulls her hours out of the fifteen hundred.

I don't think, no I'm sure, WH knows that the $300 will NOT cover the cost of a contested D, which is what I am going to file. I'm going to be lucky if the $1500 covers MY cost and that's with me doing a lot of the footwork myself. We're no Bill & Melinda(Gates) but we have a few assets that are going to have to be split.
Most of the expensive assets, house & prop not included, are WH's toys and he'll fight tooth & nail to keep them. He can have them, as long as I get half of what they're worth!

WH's pay is already garnished. The state I'm in automatically does that when child support/spousal support/partial mtg pmt is filed.

I used to like to think I was 3 steps ahead of WH...now with whackadoo skankoo onboard barking orders...not sure. She's not intelligent, but she's smart. Like a devious conieving witch smart.

I am NOT getting involved in son/WH car problem. Yes, I have to drive his bum around...I am a mother and used to doing such things...but DS1 is 18 and needs to take on his own responsibilities. Already the last two days he's had to find his own way home. If he's got to pay people gas money to cart him, then so be it. He knows his dad's work schedule, but he would rather walk the 14 miles home then call him. Love that kid o' mine.

Today I picked up the D papers that WH filed. They looked like standard court papers. So&SO vs So&So.

But there it was...his signature...he signed them, he really, really did.

I came home and cried.

It's been 20 days since we have seen each other. We used to never go 24 HOURS without seeing each other.

When I looked at the D papers, the first thing that I thought of was, 'I wonder if she was with him when he signed this at his attorney's office'. Skankella was probably sittin' there with a great big smile on her face. Then she probably took him home and screwed his brains out. I shouldn't have thought that, but it invaded my mind.

Tonight I am heartbroken.

Mitz

Sorry

Try to get a good nites sleep on it before you do anything.

Talk it out here before you do anything.

{{{{{{{{Mitzie}}}}}}}

Your in my prayers.

I'm sorry that you're heartbroken mitzie, but you KNOW things will get better for you. Hang in there! It's times like these, that'll make you appreciate the good times all the more.

The best revenge is to live well!

{{{{Mitzie}}}}

I'm so sorry. I understand. I got more mail from my attorney today and it always makes my heart sink. Today, I got WH's Answer to my Counter Complaint.

One thing I noticed about my WH's Complaint was that his signature was wobbly, as though he had a difficult time bringing himself to do it. I bet your WH feels some guilt about this. He just has SkankyHo bullying him into doing it, like mine did.

Speak to your attorney. If you're going to have a divorce that you don't want, make sure he does, too. Make it long and drawn out and UGLY. If you're in a fault state, depose WH and SkankyHo and make them testify in open court as part of the PUBLIC record of the divorce. The thought of that is making this bearable for me. I don't know what that says about me as a person, but I'll deal with my conscience later. I'm just trying to give my WH time to realize that this is the wrong decision.

I'm not going to do anything.

I just want everyone to know I'm sad. NOT to feel SORRY for me, please! . But because, maybe someday someone might be reading this in the archives and they just picked up THEIR D papers and they are sad and wonder if this is normal.

I hope so!

I know all is not lost. Time is not my friend right now. It is too SLOW...

I'm going to be fine. Right now my life SUCKS, but tomorrow...tomorrow it might not suck as bad

Well, I AM going to feel sorry for you! You don't deserve this, and you're sad? You would be insane not to be, sweetie. That said, you stay strong, woman! Yeah -- easy said, right?

Yep, as many here say...easy said, not easy done. I have no words, but many prayers.

(((((Mitzie))))))

Dear Lord, I ask that you come to Mitzie tonight in her dreams and bring her comfort. Let her know that you are there. Please wrap your arms around her and just hold her because she hurts.

((((Mitzie))))

Time to go run a really warm bath, throw in a bunch of bubblebath, turn on some soft uplifting music and light a few candles. Then have yourself a good old-fashioned cry. Give it to God. He can handle it.

Then come back here tomorrow and let's get back to the business of helping Mitzie recover in the way that she's meant to recover.

{{{mitzi}}}

Don't tell God how big your problems are... tell your problems how big GOD is.
---Fred

Yes!!

DITTO x 1 MILLION

((((((Mitzie))))))

Mitzi,

You once told me that you can't let someone else take your power from you, don't let that piece of paper take yours from you.
Wait until you are ready to deal with it, just because they send it doesn't mean you have to do anything with it.
Stay in your Plan B and just put one foot in front of the other until you can walk again.............
Life happens for a reason and I truly believe this might be a new door that is opening for you with a new purpose for you.........
Look at it as an opportunity to spread your wings, finding a better life than this one,
Your husband is a fool...............(hugs) .......jessi

Hi ya'll.

Guess what? Right now I am getting ready to take my car in for an oil change, and I have 2 new tires that WH bought in the fall and I am having them put on & my tires balanced and rotated.

WHAT? OMG, I am just...A GROWN UP?!?!?

This is something WH always took care of. WH always changed the oil and took the car in for service.

I have NEVER done anything remote to this before.

Just like fixing the bath...I CAN DO IT..on my OWN!!

HOORAY FOR ME!


(Not to toot my own horn or anything.(pun intended )

Great on the car!

My favorite saying since D-day and personal growth and self-reliance is

"I'm a big girl now."



(I just bought a new large appliance last night and thought how cool I don't have to negotiate which one to choose with a spouse!)

Nice job accomplishing that grown-up stuff, Mitzi!

Last night DS1 got WH truck to drive until he get a vehicle fixed.

I picked DS1 up from work and he informed me that he was getting his dad's truck and I had to drop him off to pick it up.

I started to have an anxiety attack. I didn't want to do it, and I told DS1 this.

WH &OW were at the bar(?) so I dropped DS1 off at end of apartment complex and left.

Now I have WH truck in my driveway! WH's parents let him have thier 'extra' car while they are at winter home in FLA! Inlaws are sooo dysfunctional. The whole relationship between WH & parents is dysfunctional. WH has never had to face ANY consequences of ANY of his actions. Partly because of the guilt of alcoholism on parents part and partly because MIL is still a co-dependent/enabler.

There is a lot of secrecy behind how MIL & FIL got together in Bermuda. FIL I beleive filed for D while he was stationed there. Perhaps MIL was at one time the OW? She had affair of her own 17 years ago with someone from her work. The whole family is full of secrets. I don't care if I ever speak to any of them again. How they have ignored their grandsons' is apprehensible. Awful, awful people.

Enough ranting about Inlaws

I guess part of being a big girl is learning to 'deal' with situations. WH & I have children together. THAT is not going to change.

Things are going to happen between kids & their dad. As they get older and become adults they will take on more of their own personal responsibility, and relationship with their dad(perhaps dad & OW).

I have to move on for me. My DS1 keeps saying over and over, "Move on ma, just let it go". I think he says this more to reasure himself that he needs to let it go and move on. But he is right. Out of the mouth of babes, huh? Even though he's 18 he's still MY baby.

So, I've got that gray truck in my driveway. Parked where it always was. On the left side of the driveway. A constant reminder that WH is with OW and not here. A reminder that he left us and isn't coming back. A reminder that it was that truck that drove him & OW around town to flaunt their affair.

I want to be able to 'deal' with it, but how??

Someone tell me HOW.

( I'd like to pull it across the street into the field and torch the thing, can I do that? It is marital property after all)

Ask your son to park it elsewhere.

Up the street, or down the street two houses. Whatever it takes to NOT BE RIGHT OUT THE WINDOW.

Good on his FATHER to let him use the truck. But your trigger is out there every time you look out the window.

Ask him to move it.

He might protest, "AHH MOM, I gotta walk 200 feet!" Just tell him the truth: "Everytime I look out the window and see HIS truck, I think of him and (OW-NAME HER) being on vacation.. And I DO NOT want to be reminded of that. HE wants OUT of this family, so I am trying to get to that place that HE WANTS us to be. Out of his life. Move the truck.

(((Mitzie)))

LG

Mitzie



ITA with LG.

A boundry for Mitzie instead of a constant reminder of WH/OW.

{{{{{Mitzie}}}}

nESRE

DS1 did park truck across way. Only way I can see it is if I purposely walk into living room and look out window.

DS1 hates to be inconvenienced (don't ALL teens?)so I was happy he complied.

Okay, okay so it was Valentine's day yesterday. The first one I've spent without my WH in 20 years. I didn't think about too much during the day but at work when couples started filtering in from romantic dinners...oiy boy...made me a little sad

Of course my mind wondered aimlessly. What'd he get her, did she talk him into a ring since she talked him into filing(I don't really know this, I only suspect it), and other assorted messed up thoughts.

THen I started thinking about some of the awful things he's done to me over the last 20 years. I KNOW the man loves me, way, way, deep down inside. I don't think he's liked me for a very, very long time and his actions show it.

I don't know how much of his actions over the last 5 or so years is due to his increased consuption of beer, his clinical depression(amongst other mental health issues), childhood/teen trauma or if truly had given up.

When I got home from work, DS2 called me in his room. I was going to lash out at him for being up so late but he spoke first. He said he had a delema and wanted to know what I thought he should do. His delema was WH called and asked him if he wanted to get wings on Thursday or Wed.(His days off before starting night shift). DS1 said "Should I go?" I told him absolutely!Right now I can't stand the man (and I don't understand why)but I had a wonderful childhood and had wonderful parents whom I am still close to (well mom passed, but I still talk to her everyday I would like them BOTH to have SOME relatinship with his dad. He is only 15. I don't like it when parents choose to be a parent on their own convenient time. But for right now, I think DS2 should take what he can get, emotionally, from his dad.

WH has not seen DS1 or DS2 in over 20 day, except for the few minutes he stopped to have someone look at the other dead car.


It seems WH did NOT call DS1 to ask him to join them. What's up with that?

AND...why did WH pick today, VALENTINES DAY to call and ask DS1? WH wants to go Thursday, he couldn't call tomorrow, or he couldn't have called yesterday(meaning Sunday?)


I have stayed totally invisible. Not for any other reason except I am a grown woman, A BIG GIRL NOW, and to get even close to anything that at it's core is childishness(and lets face it, WS & AP's ALL act like CHILDREN in the midsts of their affairs)just brings me down

What's eating WH?

I see OW's car parked at her xSO. Each time has been when my WH is at work! He told me 'she's already done some things',(in regards to WH being sorry she's a ho) I betcha those 'things' were with him(xSO).

Before you ramble about me driving past xSO house...I don't have a choice...the only other road that would loop around (an extra mile + 1/2)is closed indefinitly! We had a pretty bad flood in the fall and it washed part of the road away. There are no plans to fix it because of money problems with the state or local government. I don't know. But the ONLY road I can go is one that goes right past xSO's house. And since I can't drive with my eyes closed...I see her car...

so sorry for mispellings & grammar, but I am so beat, I'm looking at my bed and it's calling me, it's calling me....

Hi Mitzie
I think we are in the same situation you and I.
Also my WH has not liked me for a long long time, I wanna say since 2004(date of his first A).
More than not liking me, I think the best description would be that he is repulsed by me. You know that kind of behaviour where he would sleep at the far edge of the bed and withdraw immediately when our feet touched...or if I hugged him he would remain as rigid as a board and not hug me back...?
On one of the MB radio programs Dr. Harley said that when a WS has not experience feelings of love for the BS for a long long time, then chances he/she will experience them again (during plan B) are very slim, just because the memory of the love feeling with the spouse is just gone and has not been refreshed for a long while.
That, coupled with the separation and the strong feelings they now have for OW makes R hard.
Also Dr. H added that he would not want this type of WS back anyway as they rarely take full responsibility for their actions and will probably cheat again down the line.
Trying to explain the reasons why they did what they did is a waste of time. However enabling IL and depression plus alcholism certainly play a role. My IL are also enables and both alcholics.
But it really boils down to the fact that WH do not love us anymore. In my case, my chances of R the M at this point are next to nothing also because I do not think he will ever what to R and do the ton of work required to compensate for what he did to the M.
Also, I do not think I have it in me to go thru a recovery with a serial cheater, who, like Dr. H pointed out, very likely will blame me for everything and cheat again soon down the line...
I agree with you. Move on and keep up a good plan B. It is hard to see car parked. I see that daily and it makes plan B somewhat less effective. But I sold my place and will move out soon.
Could you move?
blessing

Atena,
I've been keeping up with your thread an am glad you are able to move.

I cannot and will not move for a few reasons. My DS2 has two more years of HS and I won't pull him out and move for selfish reasons, plus I'm not giving WH the satisfaction of getting ANY of the equity in our home until I HAVE to .

You say your WH slept on the edge of the bed? That's weird because mine did too. Only my WH did it from wayyyy back, like 17 or 18 YEARS! Does that mean he hasn't like me for 18 YEARS!?

Nineteen years ago I dumped WH. He already had an illegitimate child that he paid absolutly no attention to, and really didn't seem interested in having any more. I wanted more from him. I expected more from him. He didn't give it and being emotionally strong at the time I let him go.

For about a month I heard not a peep out of him. then he started trying to get in touch with me. I wouldn't talk to him. I was pretty much dark on him, only I didn't know that's what I was doing at the time...I just really wanted him out of my life and wanted to move on. THen he wrote me a love letter (I wish I hadn't lost it in all the moving I've done) and sent flowers and finally I talked to him and after a couple of days of talking he asked me to marry him.

So I know a PLAN B CAN work...as long as there is no OW involved! At that time he was only dating around and didn't fall in love with someone else.

I myself personally have not heard a peep, nor a pop, nor a hiccup from WH since...I couldn't tell you...going on about three weeks. I haven't seen him in that long either.

I've been reading, ALOT. Not just affair books but self help and spiritual ones as well. I have gained such an introspective into myself. I've always been one to psycoanalyze EVERYTHING and EVERYONE to the point of over analyzing so delving deep inside wasn't that hard.

I can say that I learned (and life IS a learning journey after all)that I have not respected marriage in any way. Not just my marriage but marriage in general. I haven't figured out why just yet(because I had really good role models)but I have disrespected it. And thus in return disrespected WH and myself and most of all GOD, who joined us together on alter. All I can do is pray and ask for forgiveness. Forgiveness from God and try and forgive myself. So whether WH comes back or not, or down the road I meet someone new and we marry, I know I will able to be a much better wife and partner and hold my marriage in the highest regard.

I'm not saying that WH wasn't disrespectful during the marriage. Obviously he IS disrespectful NOW, but I can't put all the blame on him for the last 18 years for my disrespect.

If we ever get to that place where WH and I can just talk. Where I can look at him and my heart doesn't break. When I can sit beside him and not ache for him I will tell him how sorry I am for disrespecting our marriage, him, myself, our family.

No a peep from my WH for a year and half. This story with OW is serious and he is "in love". Plan B is working for me on a personal level, but it is certainly doing nothing to my WH in terms of finding that OW is not meeting his EN etc...or can't step up to the plate.
She obviously can, otherwise he would have shown some signs of the A crumbling, but, from the little I see, the A is actually getting more established.



I know, I feel exactly the same. Right now my heard will just break if I talked to him or had contact with him.
Maybe one day, many years from now, I will be able to not care at all and talk to him like one talks to a stranger on a train ride.
blessing

There is a Beatles song with lyrics that go "I look at all the lonely people..." when I read the above quote that's what I think of, two lonely people on a train making chit-chat...

Two lonely people who once had a whole lifetime of memories...

Two lonely people who shared EVERYTHING. Now it's like two strangers.

I used to look at divorced people and think to myself, why did they get divorced? What could have possibly happened to them to make them not want to be together anymore? Why didn't they just work harder on their marriage? What about the kids, don't they care about the kids? How do you just throw away X number of years together? Why didn't they just try?

Now, looking back, I think, how naive of me. The why's, what's and how's are easy to answer. When there is only one of you emotionally or physically in a marriage, it's not a marriage.

Just got a phone call.

Sad.

WH & OW got engaged yesterday. I am shaking and feel sick to my stomach and I 've got to leave for work.

So how do I handle this since I have not seen nor spoke with WH for so long?

That must be why he wants to take DS2 out on Thursday.

Please someone advise.

Discuss this with your son before sending your son clueless into the wolf's den.

You're not divorced, are you?

Their being 'engaged' doesn't mean anything Mitzie.
They don't have very high marriage demands.

Plus, its laughable (though unbelievably upsetting to think about) that they consider themselves 'betrothed'.

Hugs to you dealing with the 'news'.

Mitzie, you have it in your power to make it a very loooooonng engagement. Do so.

{{{{{Mitzie}}}}}

Question of the night. What to do if you run into WH in an accidental encounter and he is already in a bad mood?

Answer: ABSOLUTLY NOTHING!!!

THAT ended up making him in an even more p*ssy mood and guess what? I DON'T CARE.

DS2 had eye doctor appoint today and WH was taking him for his monthy (obliglitory :/) wing-nite. WH was going to pick up DS2 here at house, with me gone of course. This was all arranged through DS2 so he could go to eye doctor(needed contacts so had to go)and go for wings.

Wouldn't you know eye doctors ran late and WH (of course, shoulda known)showed up early.

He was looking at the engine of DS1's blown-up car when I pulled in driveway.

Right away he starts spewing(this is the same H I KNOW)about how there was no oil in the car, blah, blah, blah.

I just smiled and waved, shrugged my shoulders and walked in the house.

WH of course follows me.

I won't give the whole conversation but I will tell you what he said. Remember, for most of this conversation I said NOTHING!

WH: "I need your social security number to file my taxes, since you really screwed on that one, blah, blah, blah, we could have got a lot more back, blah, blah, blah how much did you get back?"

ME: That's none of your business(politely)

WH(getting madder by the second, teehee)"OH yes IT IS MY BUSINESS! I blah,blah, blah, this family all last year ( I really wasn't paying much attention)and I'm entitled to that refund money we could have got if we filed together."

What I wanted to say was, "well, we're not together anymore"

WH:"Are you getting back $XXXX?"(some astronomical amount)
ME: (laughing) NO WAY!
WH: "Well I'm going to have to pay,blah, blah,blah, why wouldn't you want to file together when we would get so much back?"
ME: "I don't care."
WH: "YOU DON'T CARE?!? YOUR THE ONE WHO IS OBSESSED WITH MONEY!"
ME: (very calmly)"No, WH, that is YOUR description of Me from YOU. YOU always thought I was obsessed with money."
WH: More blah, blah, blah

WH: "So, you don't call me back when I call you?"
ME: "Oh, yeah, I did see you called, I was at the doctors office. Sorry."
WH: "I see you have me blocked on the home phone! I wanted to talk to you."

Then a bunch more drivel and dumb talk about how I seem so happy and how I never wanted to go anywhere with him(I told him I was going out at 8 because the car is getting towed tonight)and then he said something about my e-mail...okay, I'm listening now WH...

He brought up the fact that on my return address I changed my name from my name to 'Happy in MYHOMETOWN'. Now mind you the last time I e-mailed him was OVER a month and a half ago and that was the NC letter!

Then I told him I had some stuff for him, gave him his bowling ball and his insurance card and I DS2 & my part of car insurance. Well, apparently when I told him I was going to pay it, he thought I was going to pay the WHOLE car insurance bill!

I laughed, "No way"...oh...the anger in his eyes! I'm surprized my hair didn't catch on fire the way he was burning me with them!

THEN, he went on about a friend of ours whom he thinks, although he acted like it was fact, fixed that shower. I wouldn't tell him and his exact words were, I kid you not,

"This is MY house and I have a right to know whose comming in and out of it!"

I just said he abandon his house. More blah, blah, blah, "my name is on the deed", blah, blah, blah, "that's what I wanted to talk to you about", blah, blah, blah...

So, MY take on this conversation is he's hurting for cash, B.A.D. What does he think? I'm going to say "Sure, lets sell the house NOW so we can take our equity because I'm a money hungry obsessed fiend!" Licking my lips and rolling my hands together

He left, I said bye and he yelled loud enough under his breath "F**k you". Never brought up engagement, our relationship, kids or any of that stuff...just about money.

But read between the lines...

OOOOOH, how will end? How will it end? Stay tuned young veiwers for updates as they come rolling in!

Thing is, right now I really don't care. I'm sure I'll be crying tomorrow, but right now...I couldn't give a bucket full of hog sweat.

sorry so long, I'm a droner, I know...

Mitzie, NOT PLAN B AT ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLl. But, I am CERTAIN that you know that.

The real answer to what you say to your WH in a "accidental" encounter is:

WH:I need your social security number to file,.....

You: Are you ready to end your affair with OW and work on our marriage?

WH: Talking about this again,......

You: Contact my IM when you have.

AND YOU WALK AWAY.

Come on Mitz, what has this done to work into YOUR plans? How exactly did this work for you?

Why CAN'T you separate from your WH? Why do you keep doing this?

STOP. reading...between...the ...LINES!!!!!!
ahhhhhhhhhhhh!


You can not second guess WHAT is going on between his ears -- heck, he probably does not know.

We, here, can not tell you what he is thinking... we should not even try.

It will only destroy your love bank, (what you have left)
This is going to take a toll on you. WHy fight with him?

and encourage him to IGNORE your wishes (plan b) and do whatever the heck he wants.

Next time you see him......drive onward for a while til the coast is clear.

Good job on not lovebusting.

You live and learn and he is hissing spitting mad in order for you to be nasty back to make his situation seem a valid situation. Oh he is even madder cause you didn't get nasty with him.

Now keep dark. Dark even if it means driving to somewhere to avoid interaction.

I must say to everyone who has told me to stay in PB...

Thank you...

I have been being a bit introspective these last days.

Spoke with my Great Aunt(who just turned 88!)and HER words of advice to me is the same exact advice I've been getting on this board!

She told me to take care of MYSELF first(just like you put the oxygen mask on first before your child...I've got to be emotionaly healthy for my kids...).

Wisdom.

Actually, I think the gist of her conversation was leaning more on the side of me to just letting go completly and moving on (that side of the family never really cared for his drinking problems).

I'm staying right where I am, feet planted firmly.

Since this town is sooo small, and everyone knows everyone elses business...I hear word that there was trouble week-end before this in affairland.

Am I wrong to feel a sense of happiness about that? It's just when I learned they had a row I was GLAD! Glad to know that whatever it was, it couldn't have involved ME in anyway because...I hadn't spoken nor seen him for a month...

THAT's a great feeling.

I haven't had trouble with anyone (do my kids count? )so it's all good here.

Thanks again everyone. Like every lesson I have ever learned in life, I've had to learn the long and hard way.

I'm glad for you, Mitzie. Keep on keepin' on!

And that was VALENTINES week-end...

I thought that was the week-end for LOVERS?

Hey Mitzie!!

I am back! Where the heck are you? Thanks for your incredible post on my thread.

Oh there is trouble in affair land alright. It gets worse with time.

So watched any Joaquin Phoenix films lately??

4 days no Mitzie....

Hi Ya'll!

Just checkin' in, letting everyone know I'm still alive & hanging in there.

Life in NC sure is borrrring for me.

Just work & home. My hours got switched, so now I start earlier but I'm able to be home before DS2 goes to bed, so that's a good thing. Even though I am NOT a morning person at ALL! I'm in bed sleeping by 10 at night...like an old lady!

Been redecorating & shoveling snow lately.

Been doing a lot of reading also. Switching between several books,including SAA, Infideltiy by: Don-David Lusterman & Private Lies by: Frank Pittman.

I see OW car in front of her S/O house an awful lot. I don't know if her DD is driving and goes over or what. If it's her then it's just a matter of time before the perverbial sh*t hits the fan.

My extra fridge in the garage broke (someone gave it to us years ago and it was like 30 years old then, so it well outlived it's purpose). There was deer meat in there from like, two years ago that H said was still good! YUCK! I don't like the stuff anyway, so what do I know. Anyhoo, when I opened the freezer...OMG! That was a stench I hope NEVER to smell ever again! It's been way too cold to clean it out, then we got a terrible snow/ice storm (took me 4 hours to get home from a 30 minute drive!) so it's still sitting there. I'll get DS1 to get some friends to take it to the dump for me. Nice to have strong young men around to do those things (even if I'll have to pay them $20 each to do it!)

I'll check back when I have more time...

Harm: did watch Gladiator w/DS2 last week. Something about JP harelip.......so.....sexxxxxy

((((Hugs to all)))

Mitzie

Mitzie

Just checkin in on you since we have not seen you lately.

Will you give us an update? Hope all is going well in your life.

Could sure use your help with the high # of newbies every week.

nESRE