Backstory:

"Met" a girl from my old hometown on FB in Jan '09.
We really hit it off she was very funny and she quickly became very important to me. I had/have virtually no one I would call my friend (another story)for about 15+ years.. But this girl was it...I had no attraction physically to her as she wasn't attractive and my wife is beautiful. But the OW could cheer me up/make me laugh like no one ever could. I really felt happy again. My wife became aware of my excessive contact with OW in March '09 and asked me to dial it WAAAAY back. I didn't and it began to cause problems.

She tried to become friends with this girl as well to ease her mind, we even went to stay with OW & her husband for a week July '09 Up to this point we had only talked like a M/M or F/F friendship nothing innapropriate (besides hours at a time on the phone with another woman)
During the visit things changed, never kissed her or anything, but started to really want to. Obviously it all went downhill from there. My wife decided she couldn't handle the relationship between me & OW, and said if I didn't stop she would leave me. OMG now what do I do? I can't lose my wife, but I can't lose my only friend...the one who really understands me after feeling so lonely for so long. So I did nothing, I just hoped it would all work itself out somehow but knew I was probably going to lose both of them in the end but I couldn't act. The relationship became sexual in Oct. '09 as I was trying to figure out if I could be everything with this girl if My wife does leave. (yes, I'm a moron) Well it didn't feel right...it felt like sleeping with your sister or something, but I still couldn't stop talking to her. I loved her in a completely different way than my wife. Still, after repeated threats my wife moved out the end of Nov. '09 after I confessed everything.

I was back and forth the month of December on what to do and who I wanted to be with. Jan 6th '10 I was having a very difficult day with missing my wife. I took a break from work and stopped by her apt to surprise her...she was just out of bed no shower, no makeup but took 1 look at her and knew I couldn't be without her. I stopped all contact with OW the very next day and told my wife so, and that I didn't want to lose her. We went out that night to a comedy club and she was gleaming. She looked at me so lovingly all night, but then surprised me by telling me just to drop her off at her apt. (we had remained sexually active the entire seperation) Then came the struggle over the next month on whether or not she wanted ME back. Then it got worse and then the 1st of march she said she was pretty sure she wanted a divorce. Told her parents what I had done and everything. I was crushed. A month goes by in which I'm literally begging her to give me another chance but she barely will talk to me. Then March 30th she called me 6 times at work, came by to see me and said she wanted to go to the beach and see if we could re-connect. I was ecstatic and booked us a condo and we left the next morning. That began the struggling with her good/bad days/hours in which she'd be okay/happy or mad at me. Her apt lease was to be up in June and she still wasn't convinced on moving back in. After much begging on my part and putting off turning in her notice on her part she turned it in a month late and moved back into our house mid May 2010. It has been a constant struggle with her moods and emotions towards me ever since. If she happens to have a few good days in a row where she treats me good watch out because the sh*tstorm is coming. I think her feelings for me start to come back and then so does her fear. Now 8 months later and she still doesn't know if she wants to move back out or be married to me. Before she moved back in we did the list of emotional NEEDS excercise and sexual fullfillment was #3 on her list and could've been either 1 or 2 on mine. Well since moving back in we've only had sex about once a week and any more that that is mostly out of the question, whereas before all this she would have never told me no. And would have perfectly happy with doing it almost daily. Also I'm wanting it way more now because I'm so clingy and wanting that connection with her. Obviously thats been a big problem. I've been REALLY trying to not approach her for it which is almost impossible, but even when she approaches me it's an obvious struggle for her throughout most of it. Fast forward to Christmas day last week. (We hadn't had sex since the 1st week of December) She's being very sweet to me and seems very happy over the next 3 days when finally like december 28th I approach her for sex before she had to go to work. She said NO and she has no desire to be sexual with me anymore at all. (this is after 3 days of being loving)
I'm obviously crushed by this...she leaves for work and calls 10 minutes later to apologize and says she's just a crazy b*tch. We have sex after work that night she starts crying in the middle of it and says it would just be better if she moved back out. I went to sleep in the other room she comes in an hour later and begs me to come back to bed where she rubs my back and snuggles me 1/2 the night. Then is distant and grouchy again the next morning. This is our life now and neither of us know what to do. I've read this site for awhile now and know it could take 2-5 years to get over this, but it doesn't seem any better than it did in May and our sex life is worse.

I still don't want to lose her but am at a loss on how to proceed.
We started with SAA but she refused to finish it.
We went to marriage counseling from April to the end of October. Where the counselor had us working on Torn Asunder, well she stopped that halfway through as well insisting that both books/workbooks just made everything worse and she'd rather just try to not think about it. She won't do either book, won't go to counseling anymore, refuses to get on any medication or anything.

I'm a much better husband than I've ever been to her and she constantly says she wishes I would have always been this way. She wants to be in love with me again, and wants to be normal, but it seems impossible right now.

I have no idea how to proceed...

P.S.
I know I should just let her come to me for sex but it is an everyday struggle for me as this whole thing seems to have kicked my hormones into overdrive. Plus the fact that I constantly desire that reassurance that we are ok.

P.S.S
She seems to love/miss me when we are apart but very rarely when we are together. It's a very normal occurence for her to be distant or grouchy all morning, but then 10 minutes after leaving calling me and sounding happy.

Help..

Questions, please, DJB:
How did you end the A with OW? Has there been NC? What have you and your BW done differently since you began recovery? Has she been told the specifics of the A?

OW knew I had been struggling with what to do the entire relationship. I emailed her Jan 7th 2010 to explain everything. She left me a voice mail saying I wasn't ending everything in an email to call her the next night. I called and talked to her about 15 minutes, she was obviously upset as was I but very understanding. We had an impossible relationship anyway (both married and lived in different states)

No contact since

Wife knows everything about the affair

I'm not sure what you mean about doing things differently. I love and appreciate her much more than I did before I put her first in EVERYTHING whereas I tried to make myself happy 1st previously. I do more outgoing things with her than I used to (never did much at all with her before just stayed home in front of the computer) Other than that not much else as far as hobbies or anything different.

Have you read the Most Important Emotional Needs article on this site?

Yes. I started reading EVERYTHING I could on this site in April of last year. i stated in the original post that we filled out our emotional needs list in May before she moved back in. I forgot to mention Conversation was toward the top of her list and I have been talking to her on the phone a lot more than before as well.

Keep in mind you can read and do your part to meet her needs without expecting anything in return for the time being.
You can even do some marriage building counseling sessions on your own.

There are specific steps to restoring love. Read up on them.
How much time are you spending together giving her undivided attention?

I have read..
His needs, Her needs
Surviving an Affair
Torn asunder
Every Man's Battle
The Five love languages
Five steps to Romantic love
and every article on this website


Actually up until 2 weeks ago she was pretty much out of work the entire time since before we separated. So she's had my undivided attention this entire time. Like I said I don't really have any friends I like to spend time with. I deactivated FB and have focused ENTIRELY on her since January of last year.

I've tried to meet her needs like gangbusters. Her top 4 were Affection, Conversation, SF & Recreational companionship. Problem is once she moved back in in May most of the time all she wants is Conversation and recreational companionship. So I've been talking to her on the phone A LOT more than before and we went on 3 vacations last year as well as doing more day to day things I would not have done before.

My top needs are severely suffering and I feed off her moods terribly so I end up depressed every day. Like just now I left her work where she invited me for lunch, but when I got there I could tell she wasn't very happy to see me...so again I left depressed with thoughts of giving up in my head, but I do not want to give up. Wish I could see a light at the end of the tunnel...

Thank you MB Seasons

Topic has been moved to Surviving an Affair.

Have you (quietly!) ruled out that your BW hasn't started her own A?

Yes 99% sure that is not the case. She is turned off of pretty much all men now it seems.

I would recommend that you read up on Plan A, meeting your W's needs, avoiding lovebusters. Putting your Taker away (that's the one who was in charge during your A) and being a giver with no expectations.

Further read up on just compensation and complete those items, EPs, transparency, etc.

Would your W be willing to post here?

I don't think so...I showed her this site long ago and told her to try it out to no avail. I am completely transparent and practically beg her to check up on me. She has all my passwords, can look at my phone any time she wants, drop by work unexpected whatever. She won't do any of it. I have read plan A, she is in the drivers seat now. I cater to whatever she wants basically.

Not plan doormat, Plan A.

Stating that your needs are not getting met and that you are feeding off her moods and getting depressed is a very good indication to me that you are not in Plan A...

Stating that you have read up on it and she is in the driver's seat without any further elaboration is another indication that perhaps you aren't taking Plan A seriously.

just sayin'...

What needs are you meeting and how? What lovebusters do your recognize you were engaged in prior to MB? What other changes have you made?

What Extraordinary Precautions did you take? Be specific. And are they written?

How did you confirm this? or is it based on a gut feeling?

Ok it's been awhile...I did almost all of the reading last spring/summer. Can someone point me in the direction of Plan A? Is it in SAA book or an article here?

DJB, it sounds like your wife has fallen out of love with you. How much time are you spending together each week? I don't mean just being in the same room doing different things. How much UA time?

I hope your last sentence isn't too literal. You should not be a servant or caterer to your wife. Most wives don't respect that and quickly develop an entitlement mentality.

I don't know to what extent that is true. Yes you are correct, but I think it's more that she is scared to death of getting re-attached to me and then it happening again. I can see it develop. If she starts being loving and or gets that spark back in her eye for a couple days or sometimes even hours she gets mad for no apparent reason and backs WAY off.

As far as my last sentence it was probably 75-25 before with me getting to make most of the choices, what we watched, where we ate, etc now it's reversed. I'll go out of my way to get breakfast for her sometimes on my way home. Whereas if it wasn't on the way before I wouldn't do it, etc. Little things. But yes I tend to wait on her hand and foot at the house now.

Okay, thanks for your reply. Can you tell me how much UA time you spend together each week?

Barring the 2 1/2 weeks vacation alone this summer, Less than 5 hrs alone time without kids or TV.

I think she avoids alone time as much as possible now because she knows it's going to lead to me wanting SF, and let me clarify...she does still want it, it just upsets her every time we do so she avoids it 90% of the time.

(Yes I'm well aware that I should let her come to me when SHE is ready, but apparently my needs overwhelm my brain)

Also can someone point me in the direction of Plan A so I can go over it again...thank you.

So you're spending no time together alone, and when you ARE alone she equates it to sex? Huh. No wonder she's avoiding you. You both have different ideas of what UA time should be, and SF is evidently not one of her most important emotional needs.

DJB, you're going to have to help her to fall in love with you again. This is going to require a concentrated effort to carve out 25-30 hours of undivided attention each week. You can't go thirsty for months (no UA time) and then slug down 10 gallons of water in one sitting (a vacation.) In order to successfully recover, you're going to need to commit to this time together as a consistent part of your marital life.

My H and I spend at least 20 hours a week of UA time. We are actively aware of UA and are committed to making that our priority. When we get busy with other things during the week and start to neglect UA time, we can see the difference. We get a little cranky with each other. When we try to pack it into a few weekend days and don't maintain it during the weekdays, we get cranky. When we are meeting our UA hours, we are loving and thoughtful. That's not an accident. It's a by-product.

It just works better to spread it throughout your days. Saving it for vacations will not work.

Do this: make a list of things you would like to do with your wife. Exclude any activity that involves electronics (computer, TV, movies.) Keep it simple; it should be something that is easy to implement. Keep your W's top emotional needs in mind while making the list.

Have your W make a list as well, if she is willing. (Do yours regardless.)

I'm going to give you an example of what H & I do, sorry for the wordiness, but maybe it will help you see what I mean:

H & I enjoy going through recipe books and finding a dish we've never made before that requires a lot of ingredients. The more obscure the better. We make a shopping list of the items we need. We go to the store to get the items. Often we will travel 1/2 hour to a neat little market in our nearest big city and will poke through the exotic spice booths, etc., to find the items on our list.

After we get all of our ingredients we'll hop across the street to enjoy a cold micro-brew at a well-known brewery in that town. We'll each try a different new brew and compare them.

That will total 4 hours alone (and we haven't even made the food yet!). During that time, we are chatting about anything under the sun. Think about when you were dating - you didn't drive places in grim silence. You were actively engaged with the other person and made effortless conversation. It's like that. I have a need for true conversation (not just check-ins throughout the day on the phone) and it's beautifully filled that way. H makes big deposits into my LB on those outings and while we're preparing our meal.

Makes me all warm and fuzzy toward him, KWIM?

DJB, the key to falling in love again is spending undivided attention time. This program will not work without it. This step will make all the difference and it will do it quickly. I would get the Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook [they sell it cheap on this website] and pull out the undivided attention worksheet in the back and make copies.

Sit down with your wife and schedule 25-30 hours per week of undivided attention time meeting the top 4 intimate needs of conversation, affection, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. No TV, no kids, no distractions. <----that is the key

Policy of Undivided Attention

Thank you for the lengthy response Bliss, and thanks for coming onto the thread Melody...I've been waiting for you...lol.

This is going to be a chore because she recently started working at a Model home selling houses in a subdivision and the owner wants her there 7 days a week. Plus she is trying to juggle her own start-up business on the side. Add the fact we have a 4 yr old girl. I'm a fireman who's gone for 24 hours at a time..We have no hobbies to speak of besides TV we enjoy together. Guess I need to work on finding some cheap free hobbies for us O_o

From Dr. Harley: DJB, re-read my afternoon with my H. Here's what happened:
We both have a need for recreation, and that was addressed by our shopping adventure.

We both have a need for affection and that was addressed by holding hands, paying attention to what the other person was saying, etc.

I have a need for conversation. Check.

H has a need for SF. No problem. We've both had a great day. We've spent the afternoon making deposit after deposit into each other's LB and are feeling pretty intimate toward each other. Right after dinner. Check.

One note: don't start UA time with your W and expect SF after the first few times. She's going to need some LB deposits before you get to that.

DJB, let me help you get started:
Build On This. Skip No. 5

Some daily things that sapph and I do for UA time are very basic things. Like going to the gym together and working out side by side, not separate.

I come home for lunch for an hour, and we eat together. Dinner together is good too. Always at the table with no TV and electronics. (kids are there, but we try to make the most of it)

Going out for hot chocolate in the winter, and smoothies in the summer.

Going to church together, although this is isnt totally undivided due to trying to keep kids quiet, but there are needs being filled there.

UA time should be easy enough to make a routine. I know it is tough with young kids, we have a DS4 and DS2, but we try our best.

Just today we were saying that we get most our needs filled except conversation, the kids always interrupt, it is something we are trying to figure out.

Thank you for all the ideas everyone. I will work on it.

At least SOME of the problem isn't the Love bank deposits though. She gets plenty of those. It's just the fact that as soon as she starts thinking about SF or initiates it she starts picturing me with th OW. And either starts crying or lashes out at me before during or after. And for about the last month she has tried to avoid it altogether because she's sick of it making her upset.

The getting upset during kissing & SF seems to have gotten WORSE with time or maybe it's that it's not any better yet and she's tired of it. Either way it's getting less and less.

AS far as her cuddling or snuggling that has gotten a lot better over the last few months. (which is great, my top 2 needs) But It's like they are going in opposite directions.

Get a babysitter!! And deduct any time that is interrupted by kids or TV.

No, no, DJB. YOU are not supposed to work on this. YOU and YOUR WIFE brainstorm UA activities.

Get a babysitter and get out of the house, man! Or send the kids to Grandma's for the night/weekend.

DJB, if you schedule 20+ hours of UA time FIRST and then schedule everything else around it, you will find time. Put the model home job and the start up business LAST, hire babysitters for the 4 year old and avoid TV and I promise you can find the 20 hours.

Do you have the book Surviving an Affair? If not, I would get that, and follow the program in there. But more importantly, find time for UA time and you will start seeing a great change in your marriage.

And if you are like most americans, you have been making HUGE LB deposits to the TV set for a long time! Just sit down, think about how much time you spend in front of the TV or Computer, etc., and substitute those hours with time alone with your wife.

You can put the kid to bed at 8pm and still have 3 hours before sleep every night.

As someone who works shifts (I'm a nightshift nurse), I know it can be difficult balancing it all, but you MUST!!! Make your wife a priority, visit her at the model home, bring her lunch and eat it with her, offer to go on walks with her after your 4 yo is asleep. Try one month of not expecting sex but just rekindling the flames with your wife. Think of it as dating again.

Those mind movies are a b*tch, and I don't have a perfect plan for your wife to defeat them, but you can help by telling her how much better she is than the OW, and then detailing in what areas she excels (her body, her laugh, her intellingence, whatever means alot to her). I cried the first time we made love after I found out about the A. I felt totally bereft that he could do that with anyone else, share that with anyone else. But he showed me by his actions that he was willing to do anything to help me heal from the trauma. That's what you need to do.

Bliss - I just talked to her on the phone and told her to start thinking of some things she would like to do besides TV, and she said ok. Good start (if she does it)

Melody - I was positive I had SAA and looked for it this morning to no avail. I found the 6 or 7 other books I listed earlier but not that one? Is plan A just in the book< because I've read so much I honestly can't for sure now that I have read it.

Trust- The TV doesn't get much of my attention unless she's with me. The computer however...

I will definitely try to get off of it even more than I have.
My daughter goes to bed at 8:30 but we aren't strict with it. I will get on that as well. I will try the 1 month no sex again (grrrr)

I have already told her numerous times that she is much better in those areas. I don't think it helps because she knows that already (she knows OW too) which in turn makes her wonder why in the world I would do it, and no matter how beautiful she is or how well she treated me before I still strayed. So why would it be any different this time?

She also says why should I do the special stuff I used to do for you before when it didn't matter?

I really don't have much of a leg to stand on except she loves me.

You are in the recovery phase, so you need to follow the basic concepts that are in SAA. If you have Five Steps to Romantic Love, find the Undivided attention worksheet in the back, rip it out and make several copies. The key is to sit down and schedule out your time for the week. Write out the dates, times, and activities. plan romantic dinners, long drives, shopping trips, etc.


huh?? What is that? Why would you go without sex??

huh?? What is that? Why would you go without sex??

[/quote]

Well this has been one of our biggest problems since getting back together in May. We had a good sex life before, but obviously the separation hurt it, and it has gotten steadily worse since reconciling.

It was a topic at almost every one of our counseling sessions in which the counselor would tell us to try and refrain from it (because it was such an ordeal for her)

The poster above you said to refrain from it for a month.
Like I said in an earlier post We probably averaged about 3 times/week before this. After separating and then getting back together it was about once a week. And even then she would get upset or mad in the middle of it. We had sex the 1st week of december and then not at all until the 29th. 25th through the 28th she was more loving and happier than she had been in months so I approached her for sex the next morning. She said NO, and that she didn't have any desire to do that with me any more. I was obviously crushed by this asked her how we were supposed to live like that, etc and she left for work mad. Calls me 10 minutes later and apologized and said sometimes she's just a crazy b****. So that night we have sex and she starts crying in the middle of it, and says we'd just be better off if she moved back out. I got upset and went to sleep in the other room. She comes in there an hour later begging me to come back to bed with her where she rubbed me and snuggled me 1/2 the night. The next morning she woke up "mad" at me again.

So the sex subject didn't come up again until last night. I asked her if she wanted to and she said "yeah maybe" ( I have to ask now, if I just start rubbing her she just throws my hands off) So I'm thinking "Great!" I lay down next to her for about 5 minutes giving her time, and I'm like "well?" She said "Nah I'm too tired, why would you want to do it with me if you know it's just going to upset me?"

I said I don't want to upset you honey, and left it at that.

So what exactly am I supposed to do? If I approach her I get rejected (which I'm not good with) If I wait for her to approach me, it's never often enough and when we do she gets crys or gets mad which isn't good for either of us.

How affectionate are you with her?

[/quote]

How affectionate are you with her? [/quote]

VERY.

Much more than I ever was before. She will readily admit that she wishes I was this way the whole time we've been together. (8 years) This whole thing has really showed me what I almost lost, and I REALLY want to show her how much she means. I'm TOO clingy if anything.

Tell her I love her all the time. Leave her notes. Send her songs, bought her a rose today and left it on her car while she was in a meeting. I tell her how "hot" she looks when she's dressed for work, and how "beautiful" she looks at night or in the morning (with no makeup on)

She even says there's nothing else I could possibly do to try and make her happy. She's just plagued by what happened. Every time I do something like send her a youtube song, or write her a note, etc. She thinks about me doing that stuff to the other girl or wonder if I did.

How often do you stroke her skin, brush her hair, or do other physical acts like that without expecting it to lead to sex and without asking to have SF? In bed, before you go to sleep?

DJB,

I think you have to understand that you have given away a sacred part of how your wife views marriage and your relationship, the most intimate thing you could give to someone you love you gave to someone else...........that is a hard process to deal with........all you can do is give her time, however much time she needs.
Don't make the mistake of confusing affection with sex...........right now she needs to feel important to you and not just in the bedroom, she is comparing and wondering about everything, have you answered all her questions, give her permission to ask, maybe there are things she wants to know..........
Be loving and caring when you answer those questions, she needs to know that you don't think the OW is better than her in any way..............
It helped me when my husband always added me in the mix, like I was thinking about you, what do you think, I need your help things like that, made me feel worthwhile to him. All the things she thinks you did for the OW, make sure you add I was thinking of you.............thought I would do something for YOU......
All I can say is it takes time, she is afraid to give herself to you, she doesn't want to take the chance of getting hurt or feeling 2nd best.............once you have been replaced it's a tough road back.........
Patience my friend......Time heals all.............................
Good luck

The more sex you have, the sooner she will get over that aversion. So, I think the more sex you have the sooner she will get over this.

Some good advive there Jessi, thank you.

Bliss - that is a problem. I do all the non-sexual touching but I find her so much more attractive, and interesting now than before (why?) Arousal quickly follows. I know women don't exaclty understand this but once that occurs that's all you can think about at the time It can be extremely annoying.

IE: Last night...we are in the hot tub just casually cuddling. I'm trying my best to be cool. She moves not so much on top of me but more in front of me and starts kissing me gently. *WHAM* there it is. She feels it and immediately moves away.

Jesus...Tell her that! Good luck getting her to listen to some random girl on a message board when her marriage counselor said to refrain from it.

She sure as heck won't listen to me saying it! She'll think I'm just trying to get what I want.

Need to find a different counselor who has your same opinion..

But then again she wouldn't finish the workbooks because it was a constant reminder of everything

DJB, your WW may likely feel like a sexual object to you, if you are unable to touch her without having to 'finish the act'. That can cause a lot of resentment.

Now, I can see your..er, extra interest in the hot tub, since she was kissing you. I understand that. What I'm wondering is how often you are in an intimate situation, like cudding in bed, where you are sensual with her without having to finish the act. By sensual I mean what I mentioned before; rubbing lotion on her legs, brushing her hair, rubbing her feet - without allowing it to escalate to sex.

Sorry for the confusion, but I did not mean to say abstain from sex for a month as a hard and fast rule, but more like try to be affectionate without expecting sex. I do think you need to be clear with your wife that you desire her, and she needs to understand that you are going to respond sexually to her affection. It's natural and impossible for you to prevent.

However, her aversion to sex needs to be discussed between the two of you, not in an accusatory way, but so she can express her issues. Talking to my DH about what I was feeling helped me get through those feelings of inadequacy.

I don't think forcing sex is going to improve the situation. She needs to come to terms with what you did and work through the mind movies before she can get comfortable again. She needs to initiate and you need to be flexible when it doesn't go as planned.

[/quote]DJB, your WW may likely feel like a sexual object to you, if you are unable to touch her without having to 'finish the act'. That can cause a lot of resentment.

Now, I can see your..er, extra interest in the hot tub, since she was kissing you. I understand that. What I'm wondering is how often you are in an intimate situation, like cudding in bed, where you are sensual with her without having to finish the act. By sensual I mean what I mentioned before; rubbing lotion on her legs, brushing her hair, rubbing her feet - without allowing it to escalate to sex. [/quote]


Happens daily bliss. But it always seems to be hanging in the air like a dense fog...lol.
She said her legs itched last night (before the hot tub incident) I said they are probably dry, let me rub some lotion on them (funny you mentioned that) Sex was NOT on my mind until...I pulled her pants off. My arousal was apparent I just shook my head and continued with the lotion. She was well aware, but I said nothing.

Maybe this is too much for this website (if it is delete sorry) But for months I have been "taking care of myself" before she comes home so I won't bother her with it.
Of course sometimes I get hopeful and don't (to my disapointment) and sometimes it doesn't matter..lol.

Melody you don't have a PHD by chance and would be willing to call my wife and talk to her? LOL. Best idea yet!

Why don't you send an email to Dr Harley about this? He will answer on the radio and you can send your wife the radio clip? I bet he tells her it will get easier the more sex she has! Are you familiar with the radio show? You can talk to Dr Harley free. here is the link: here

I have a PhD in shopping!!

Well at least you'll have that in common.

I am not familiar with the radio show. So if I email them they will answer my question on the radio? Do I have to be listening? If not how do I get the clip. I doubt she would listen to even that advice. She has gotten pretty stubborn. Actually she's pretty sick of even talking about sex altogether.

Update:
So I get off work Friday morning, go to the gym, drop by our daughters doctor to take car of something there, drive home, no more than walk in the door and my wife calls from work and asks me if I can come there. I said "Sure why" The furniture delivery guy is here and he has no one to help him. (She's getting furniture delivered to a model home she's sitting at)
I get there, help this guy unload all the furniture. I stay there until 5:30 putting together the furniture (she had to leave at 4:30) and drove out of the way to pick up dinner on the way home. Surely this is going to score me some major points..

I had already talked to her about setting a schedule for UA time starting that night. (She kissed and hugged me several times during the day also)

We ate, I showered, Our daughter went to watch TV in her room. Me and her layed in our bed, and I started holding her telling her I really wanted to start counseling again, and start having some UA time, going for walks, slow dancing in the BR or LR, talking on the porch, etc. Tried reassuring her yet again how committed I was to her, and to working this out, etc.

First thing out of her mouth is "I think maybe I should just move back out, I am very unhappy. You are being so good to me and It doesn't matter, I just can't get over this. Someone else would love to be treated the way you're treating me"

Of course I tried telling her (yet again) that this doesn't just transfer over to someone else, and that I don't WANT anyone else. I want YOU but I am fed up with this. (The above conversation has went down about 10 times since she moved back in and this is twice in a week)
In the same 5 minutes she says maybe we should move to Florida, and maybe we could just be friends. (yeah I'm moving to florida when you can't even like me for 2 hours straight)

If you can't recommit yourself to really trying to work through this then go ahead and do what you need to do. I went to sleep in my sons room, she wanted me to stay in there with her.
I'm like you can't keep telling me you want to separate and then expect me to stay in here and snuggle you. All it does is confuse the hell out of me. I told her I want a decision to recommit, and I want her to start treating me like someone she loves, and like a husband and not some piece of trash. Until she can promise to REALLY try and do this, I'll me staying in my sons room.

So she tried to hug me after work yesterday, I didn't. I just told her I was serious this time, and wanted a decision before we got all snuggly and confused again and went to my sons room.

She called me again today while I'm at work and we talked briefly again about the same thing. I want a dedicated effort and I don't want to hear "Maybe I should move out" EVER again.



Should she move out because she will never get over it? Did I handle this wrong? Is she a nutcase? Does she just need more time? (It's been a little over a year since the reveal and 7 months back home)

She's certainly not a nutcase. She's a devastated, abused woman who's trying to heal.

I understand your frustrations, but I'd like to hear her side.

Have you asked her to come to this forum?

I'm wondering if she's simply fed up with your frustrations and expectations when she's the victim.

Remember that recovery from this crime takes years, not months.

She's telling you how she feels. She's unhappy, still devastated and just can't get over her H's betrayal.

Some BSs can. Some can't.

Maybe she can't.

I know she's not a nutcase.

I have asked her to come here, that's part of my point. She really doesn't want to try and deal with anything in the ways suggested here or by our counselor. She just wants to forget about it and be done. But it's not happening. I'm not expecting it to just go away all of a sudden, but it's the constant talk of moving out (out of the blue when things have seemed ok mind you) You can't be committed to working something out when you have 1 foot in and 1 foot out. Also toying with my emotions DAILY..(not purposely) "I miss you today, maybe I should move out, come snuggle me, I don't care to ever have sex with you again, let's do it"

This is my life somedays. I never know if I'm coming or going anymore. (I guess she doesn't either) But that's why I'm here trying to get some help.

I really hope she's not one of the ones who just CAN't get over it....

DJB, you're describing your betrayed wife's horrible wishy washy life of indecision after becoming a victim of adultery abuse. Her thoughts and emotions are on a wild roller coaster ride that she didn't ask for nor deserve, and it's a direct result of your betrayal.

She doesn't want to vacillate like this.

Sure, we all know it's not good for your marital recovery, but this is pretty typical fallout from an A as far as I can tell.

She wants you but doesn't. Back and forth. All of us BSs know the feeling.

Others have suggested you put forth your best Plan A to show her your love her through your actions.

What steps are you taking THIS WEEK to Plan A her?

Forget her response this week (you can't control her). What are YOU doing? Watch your AOs and LBs.

It is your responsibility for your wife to be in love with you; it's not hers. Is that counterintuitive to you? If so, you need to study Dr. Harley's concepts better.

If you fail to create the conditions that allow her to be in love with you, she won't be. You need to ensure she feels safe and cared for.

I do hope you're reading LL's thread "Questions for BS that are still married to the WS": http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2462131&page=all

I bet much of it will sound familiar. Most BSs are all over the place ... for a long time.

(And keep in mind that BSs were likely not as sweet to their WSs as they might let on here.)

Hello. I am DJB1971's wife. I have read this thread and feel that he has followed suit to a point. I am certainly not a nutcase, but should be after all our marriage has been through. Thank you for supporting him.

Welcome!

Now how can we help you both?

Welcome, TB80. Why don't you start your own thread and tell us your side of the story?

I have started a thread under surviving an affair. It has the gist of it...

DJB, how many women have you had emotional or physical affairs with since marrying your wife?

Perfect. DJB, please do not post on your wife's thread, and vice-versa. I would also suggest that the two of you stay off each others' threads for now, okay?

Thank you Delta for reposting this.

DJB, is there a reason you didn't answer this?

I will tell you if you were to do phone coaching with Steve Harley, he does not move on to the meeting ENs part of recovery until the WS has completed some steps to help the BS feel more safe, one being the above.

If you want I can post the youtube video clip where he talks about this (what steps the WS needs to take)...

Please do. I don't think I've seen it.

Hi Delta, this the end of the "Infidelity" video on the home page here and it is also on YouTube. This was taken from my post on the Lurker thread.

Steve Harley (beginning at 4:57):
"As you have just heard infidelity is an emotionally traumatic event. A marriage that has experienced infidelity has been severely injured and must be properly treated.

Can you treat the injury without the help of a coach or counselor? It is possible but very difficult because the actual treatment must be carried out by the one who had the affair. Unless the wayward spouse really understands the details of how to successfully treat the wound, I strongly advise against doing it on your own.

When looking for someone to help your marriage recovery successfully make sure the plan includes at least the following elements..."
1) NC
2) WS assumes FULL responsbility for their OWN actions
3) Reveal Details of the A at soonest appropriate time
4) Detailed Plan to Independently Prevent Reoccurence of another A (EPs)
5) Detailed Plan to Fall in Love & Stay in Love
[video:youtube]http://www.youtube.com/user/MarriageBuilders#p/a/u/0/j3K_0Mte5Sc[/video] [/quote] [/quote]

Thanks. I actually have seen this video. I was confused when you said Steve Harley.

The person in this video is Dr. Willard (Bill) Harley, the one on MB Radio and the author of the MB Books.

His son, Steve Harley, is one of the coaches at the MB Counseling Center.

I had them mixed up for a quite a while.

Steve appears in the video towards the end, I put the time code above. He goes through what the WS needs to do to "treat" the injury...

Ohhhhhh. Sorry.

Guess I was still mixed up.