I found out the first week of December about my husband's affair. I am 8 months pregnant with our 2nd baby and we have a two year old son. We have been married for almost 5 years.

I have seen small signs for the past few months...putting new passwords on his cell phone, email, etc. He had been coming home from work late, *always* on the computer or the phone, etc.

My son was playing with my husband's cell phone and handed it to me when his little game was over. I noticed a text message pop in that said "I miss you". I opened it and read his most recent conversation with one of his clients (he is a personal fitness trainer) and it was very sexual and graphic, but at the same time, romantic.

I confronted him and we have obviously had numerous conversations since then. He says it was strictly emotional. He said they got sexual through emails and texts and phone calls, but he swears it never got physical. He never kissed her, slept with her, etc.

Since finding out, he has ended things with her. She has left the gym and he has had no contact with her that I know of (I have been checking the cell phone bills, emails, etc.) He says he is extremely sorry, doesn't know what he was doing, wants to rebuild our marriage, he is still madly in love with me...he says he just got "distracted".

The affair lasted 3 months. We had hit a rough patch in our sex life, finances have been rough and there was some family trouble thrown in there, too. Our marriage wasn't on the best ground, but I didn't think he was this unhappy to stray either.

Where I am hung up is if it got physical or not. I don't feel like I can completely move on and mend our marriage unless he is 100% upfront with me and opens up about everything. I feel that he has been open with everything but this one area. He claims they only saw eachother outside of training sessions twice--once for dinner and once for lunch. He said they never even "hung out" outside of their training, because he was too scared of getting caught (we live in a small town and many family and friends around).

He trained her 3 times a week and she works walking distance to the gym (where he works and spends 50+ hours a week). She also lives 20 minutes away. LIke I said, he swears up and down it didn't, but I don't see how it couldn't have. And he made a comment recently..."even if it did get physical, why on earth would I tell you? It would just devastate you more and cause you even more heart ache. I don't want to hurt you any more." I asked him if that was an admission and he said absolutely not, but he wishes I would stop asking, because the answer was going to be the same every time.

Where do I go from here? If he is not going to admit anything more and this is how it's going to be, am I just forced to move on and accept what he says, even though I feel different?!

I am depressed, distraught, confused...just don't know what to do or how to move forward.

Best advice I can offer is LISTEN to what the seasoned folks here tell you. I was here two years ago and didn't listen. It did NOT get better and now it is affair #2 and I AM getting a divorce.

Believe NOTHING your husband tells you. It will all be lies or at the very best 1/2 truths to benefit him.

I have been living the hell you are going through for a week now.

My wife tells me exactly the same thing. Unless my wife and your husband are sister and brother there is a pattern here with all cheaters. I could not imagine how much my wife could lie. She is caught and not going to give up the truth unless she has to. They had sex even if they don't admit it.

I beat myself up thinking what if I am wrong? What if she is telling me the truth. Who wants their spouse to betray them?

Do what the folks here say. They are right.

RC

I am not a vet here either (yet), but I can give you some initial observations:

First of all, we are all sorry that this has happened to you, and it is NOT YOUR FAULT he had an affair. I would bet my house that this affair (A) was a physical affair (PA.) Sexual, romantic texts are a byproduct of a full blown PA and EA (emotional affair.)

He is giving you the "trickle truth" (I believe this is what they call it here.) He is only revealing to you what he has to, based on what you know. Don't believe for a second that the A is over.

He is also giving you the "I-don't-want-to-tell-you-the-whole-truth, because-I-am-'protecting-you' line of BS. This is a most basic tactic by adulterers. He is telling you what you want to hear, but certainly not the truth.

Now that he has been caught, the A typically heads underground, because it is an addiction. Your primary task is to kill the A through exposure. The vets will show you how to do that. Also, what do you know about the other woman?

Hang in there. Help is on the way. In the meantime, take very good care of yourself emotionally and physically for the sake of your unborn.

Yes, it likely was a physical affair. Remember that all cheaters lie. It's what they do. They do not tell the truth.

Spare yourself the headache of uncertainty and schedule a polygraph ASAP. I wish I would have done this right away. Don't tell your WH in advance about the appointment.


Yes, this A is gut wrenching, but so is every other A. You WH does not have proper boundaries and will need to establish and maintain proper boundaries if your M is to survive.

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

Exposure has happened. The other woman told a friend who told my husband's boss and coworkers (which includes a few of MY family members).

The other woman...married, one baby (2 years old). I have thought about writing her, calling her, contacting her in some way. I have been warned by several people who know her husband not to do that. They say my husband will wind up in the hospital at the very least. Apparently her husband is extremely jealous, has violent tendancies and is "crazy". It scares me for not only my husband, but myself and my family.

I am done worrying about the consequences of my wife's poor choices for her. I had to let go of all that and pilot my own ship. I am done trying to fix it for her. Did me no good and my payment for it was two affairs.

Like everyone I truly feel your pain.

RC

PS remember take the advice given here it is good advice and the right thing to do.

Don't you think that the OWH has a right to know the truth about what his wife is doing? If your husband winds up in the hospital...well, that is a risk he took having an affair with a married woman. By remaining silent, you are shielding your WH from the consequences of his actions, and even allowing the A to continue underground.

What is everyone's opinion on contacting the other woman?

I know most will probably think I am stupid, but I am pretty certain it hasn't gone underground. He is never on his phone anymore, never on the computer anymore, he is home ALL the time, and when he is at work I get a full report from my aunt (who works with him and has been keeping an eye on him for me).

He says he wants to move on so bad. He tells me every day what a mistake he made and how much he regrets it. He has shed tears, he has looked quite depressed. He swears up and down it is over over over with her. He tells me it was the "friendship" that he was most attracted to.

See, my pregnancies are really rough. I am vomiting 8-10 times a day, everyday, for the first 6 months or so. I am sicker than a dog and completely unproductive. We hadn't had sex in 3 months. I went to bed every night around 7. We were completely disconnected. We were like roommates. We barely even talked anymore. He said it was the companionship he craved and was getting from her.

What kind of exposure happened, exactly?

I mean, what did the OW say to this friend of your husband's boss/coworkers?

* * *

My thought is this:

Given the "I miss you" statement, I would have to say that there is reason for suspicion of a Physical Affair (PA).

Now, granted, "I miss you" could be meant in different ways...but go with your gut on this one.

I would actually say that a person COULD have an affair that was strictly text/chat oriented without getting physical.

Before I kissed my OW, thats where we were--just talking/flirting/fantasizing. So its possible to keep it limited to just words....


I guess I would approach it this way.

"Hey, honey...I wanted to ask you something....the other day you said (quote him). I know you love me, and I know you are sorry for hurting me. Thank you for finally being open with me.

You say you don't want to hurt me anymore, and thank you for that. I still have doubts about your relationship with (her). Things just don't add up in my head and I need you to help me make sense of it, please.

But I need you to ask yourself: What do you think would hurt worse: finding out here and now, from you, that you did have sex with her....or finding it our later after we'd begun to rebuild our marriage?"

Just a thought!

Lily,
Sorry you have to be here. Know you are amongst friends and people who understand and can help you. LISTEN TO THE VETS.

I can't offer any advice to you. I'm in my own terrible mess with my alcoholic WH(wayward husband) SECOND affair. I was here 3 years ago and didn't follow through all the steps. Now my WH has moved into his own apartment, still seeing the OW(alcoholic also), acting like a 'family' with her and her kids, enjoying his freedom and lack of responsibility and I'm left here with two teens and the burden of being a single parent and not knowing what's around the corner. LISTEN TO THE VETS.

I WILL however tell you this. Your husband is lying to you, texting sexual messages is always a sign of a PA. Texting sexual/romantic messages is always a sign of PA/EA.

Living in a small town has it's advantages and disadvantages. I too live in a small town. Advantage: everybody knows everybody. Disadvantage: everybody knows everybody. A #2 is with a local towner. Unfortunatly for me neither she nor my husband care who knows and they carry on like THEY are husband and wife! A #1 ended when I exposed to everyone, including her employer and she got fired and wanted nothing else to do with my H. Exposure does sometimes put an END to an A. Pressure from family and friends can have a BIG impact on the A.

Take care of yourself and your little one(s). Again, so sorry you are here. and again...LISTEN TO THE VETS and FOLLOW THROUGH with what they tell you.

That [censored]! His wife is as sick as a dog because she's pregnant with HIS child, so he has an affair because he wasn't getting enough companionship from her!?

I'll go back to the beginning and post in order. Just had to get this out.

I understand the roommates feeling.

We watched some newer movie a few months back, and in it, one of the couples was talking to their friends separately and they both said "We are really good roommates" or something along those lines.

Thats how we were.

* * * *

My opinion....don't contact the other woman.

From what you are saying and what you are seeing and what is being reported to you, it looks promising that there is no contact.

Its good that he is owning his mistake. Thats one of the things that I've read in Dr. Harleys posts: thank your spouse for giving you another chance, every day if you have to, and don't act like nothing happened.

Introduce him the the MB site.

Have him read the 4 Infidelity articles that Dr. Harley posted, starting with this one:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5059_qa.html

Have him read the Basic Concepts and Emotional Needs.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3300_needs.html

Ask him to do the Emotional Needs Questionnaire, and see how his desire for Affection and Conversation rank. If what he says is true, that his desire was for the conversation and companionship, this will be reflected in his rankings.

Lily, "I miss you" is NOT the message of a non-physical affair. I'm sorry, but that's just your own desire to be in denial of what you KNOW to be the truth.

I'm sorry you're here. This is the club no one wants to join! There are a lot of super, compassionate, wise veterans here who can guide you moving forward.

For starters, try to read everything you can on this site. You need to know the Marriage Builders concepts if you want to recover your marriage. Start by clicking the links on the red-bordered box to the right. -->

Read up on PLAN A and PLAN B. You are going to be required to do things that at first blush might go against your "natural instincts." LISTEN TO THE VETERANS. They know what they are saying!

You will need to SNOOP, SNOOP, SNOOP. All the while you are making like the picture-perfect wife. Your husband will be required to cut off ALL CONTACT with the other woman, and this is best done through a letter that YOU REVIEW AND APPROVE before YOU SEND. An example of this letter can be found here on the site and in the book, Surviving An Affair. Again, the veterans will help you craft this letter if you want.

Come here, ask any question, listen to directions, and vent, scream, wail and moan here -- NOT to your husband!

This is the worst time in many peoples' lives. You need not face it alone. By coming here you have just enlisted a wonderful, powerful, faceless army. We can help you if you let us.

Start reading!

Lily, I'm sorry you have to be here, but you've come to the right place.

Your WH is trickle-truthing you. The A was PA, I am sure. Those nights when he got home late? Where do you think he was? Sitting somewhere, feeling emotional about OW? Nope.

You need to insist that BH come clean with every detail you want to know. His tears and anguish don't mean squat if he thinks so little of you that he would hold the truth of your relationship from you. YOU are driving the bus now, Lily. Not your WH. If he is reluctant to disclose all detais you require, if he says he forgets details, if you think he is withholding information, demand a lie detector test. Schedule it yourself. Within a day or so of the test, the WS usually starts singing like a bird so they aren't 'caught out' in their lies.

And yes, you need to make a phone call. But not to the OW. You need to call her HUSBAND. He deserves to know the terrible assault that has occurred to his marriage.

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in his 'being crazy' or anything like that. And I suspect what you'll find when you DO call him is a devastated husband. The OW always makes sure that everyone around her thinks her H is a nut, just in case she leaves him for her OM. That way, no one will think poorly of her.

Explain to OWH who you are and that your spouses have been engaging in an adulterous affair for three months. Tell him you have details if he would like to hear them. Tell him you have phone records that will support what you're saying. Give him your phone number and ask him to help you make sure that there is no contact between your WH and his WW.

If your WH is truly sorry he needs to start righting the ship and doing whatever it takes to make you feel safe in your M again. His job has just begun.

One of the first things I would put on his 'To Do' list is to go the the OWH and apologize.

Then he needs to sit down with you and write a 'no contact' letter to the OW. You need to read it, approve it and mail it for him. Do not let him mail it.

Please go to the bookstore on this site and order Surviving an Affair, quickly. It's going to be your handbook for getting through this and recovering your M.

I'm sorry you here, but I think we can help.

MB, not to hijack, but question:

Why is it lily's duty/responsibility to inform the OWH of his wife's indiscretion?

She doesn't have proof (yet) anything physical happened...just that gut feeling.

In my opinion, its not her job to expose it to that guy.

She needs to deal with her own marriage, address that, and not worry about what happens with other people's marriage--including the OW and her husband.

Just wondering what purpose it serves to "out" the other person to their spouse...other than to share some grief (not in a good way)....?

First thing first..

TELL THE OWH!! The reason why it is so important to tell the OWH is because you are saving him for long hardships down the road where he could have easily taken care of it in the beginning.

Imagine this....you are picking up your kid you see down the road your friends house in being robbed you see the mans face. do you...

A.) call the police and have this man arrested giving all information to the police?

or

B.) sit there and leave and find out from your friend that everything was stolen??

It is the same thing!!

If you do not tell this man you are robbing him from his life full of lies. Do you honestly want that on your conscious?

The second thing you want to do is schedule a poly test for him, he'll eventually tell you the truth before you go but I suggest still going anyway

Sorry you are here but honestly the one thing you need to do now is to let the OWH know, and I would not believe that he'll hurt your WH if you are worried about it put a restraining order on him or something. Either way you need to tell him.

Maritalbliss is right. Contact the OWH. I contacted the OM's wife after I caught my wife having an A with the OM. She was critical in killing the A. My wife said it was a "texting/emotional" A. The OMW worked her end and she is the one who found the proof of a PA. Even if it was only an EA, shouldn't the OWH know they are meeting outside the gym, having a relationship??

Your most important communication right now is with the OWH. He will turn her world upside down, and it's extremely likely that the affair will be dead the moment he finds out.

Luckily you were dealing with what seemed to be emotionally stable people, Wiser and MB.

Whats to say that lily does what you all advise, and contacts the OWH....and he goes violently off the deep end just as people have warned her about....without 100% proof of any PA happening?

Don't tell me (or lily) that she wouldn't feel some guilt about that happening--consequences of OW's actions or not.

Not saying it would....of course.

Just focus on yourself and your marriage.

Again, just my opinion.

Hi there and welcome, so sorry you have found your way here and in the dilema you are in...........
First of all your relationship and sickness with the pregnancy is no excuse for your husband to lose his boundaries, he made a promise to you when he married you, it didn't say until my wife gets sick...............I think you have to stop making excuses for him. My husband told me at first his affair was just emotional as well, I found out a week later that it was a full fledged PA........the two things you know for sure right now is that your husband will make decisions that don't have your best interest at heart and that he will lie to cover up what he is doing..............
Do not trust him anymore............waywards Lie and Lie to try to get out of what is really happening.........why do you believe him.......he has shown you he will lie.....
I would sit him down get the truth, then if you want to save your marriage, the two of you write a NO CONTACT letter to the OW, you expose to everyone, your family, his family the OW's family including her husband.........
Exposure kills the Affair, it's not that much fun when you have to be accountable for your wrong doing...........
If you need to do a lie detector test............
I would think long and hard about this man you are married to, if he can have an affair while you are sick and pregnant what do you think he could do down the road.............
He needs to get some IC to see what in him makes him capable of this kind of act.............
But if you chose to give him another chance to prove himself, follow the steps Dr. Harley suggests and rebuild a better marriage.........
Take care of yourself and your children, they are the most important part of all of this right now...........

Rush, the OWH should absolutely be told! Would you not tell a victim of a horrendous crime that they had been robbed? You think it's okay to cover this up so the OW can continue on her merry way, screwing around behind his back? You think this is the only time she'll do this? How many other families will she destroy before someone steps in and tells her BH what she's doing?

He will be Lily's first line of defense in helping her make sure there is no contact between the affairees. He can also help her fill in any blanks that her WH is not filling in. They can compare notes to get at the truth of the affair. These are the two people in this situation who are most invested in getting at the truth, not hiding it.

OWH has the right to know the truth of his marital life. He has the right to know the threat against his family. He has the right to all the facts. He has the right to know what skanky behavior his wife has been up to.

The same thing happened to me. OWH filled me in on everything. Thank God! Was it devastating? Hell yes! But at least then I knew. A lot of things fell into place when I finally found out the truth of my H's odd behavior over those months. My only complaint about getting that call was that he waited so long to do it! The affair progressed from EA to PA before he could put his big boy pants on and actually expose!

And yes, Lily needs to call him. All parties need to know that everyone knows.

lilly,

I have been a long-time lurker and knew when I read your story I had to finally come out and "speak". First, let me say that I am so very sorry you are here.

Second, you are in a good place to learn and eventually heal - listen to those who are here helping - their advice is invaluable.

The reason I wanted to speak is to encourage you to listen to those gut feelings you are having. My husband did and said exactly what yours is - had I chosen to ignore the gut feelings I had, I would have accepted a liar's explaination and would now be living a nightrmare. The lies that have come out over the past few years have overwhelmed me but would have been much worse if I had thought we were in recovery. I'm so glad I listened to those nagging feelings!

Also, it is up to you as to whether or not you should contact the OW. Because of the lies my husband told, he took away my right to choose to contact or not. I happen to be the type who would've contacted both OWs in my case - the affairs happened long enough ago that it would now be ineffective and would only serve to make me look like a fool. They have both moved on in their single lives.

You may feel you don't have anything to say to WHs OW, but her BS definitely needs to know.

I wish you all the best. I will tell you what I still wish someone would've told me - you will get through this, you will be alright. Take care of yourself and your precious little one.

I have googled around for polygraphs and they seem to be quite pricy... anyone have any info on them? The ones I am finding are $400 upwards... with baby #2 coming, we are on a budget and I don't think we could afford that.

As lily stated, it has already been exposed. The OWH will find out anyway, and will he be more or less angry if he finds out from someone other than the people directly involved?

If it's not a PA, then let the OWH judge for himself if it's important or not for his wife to engage in an emotional/sexting affair. For him to be the last one to know would likely make him feel the most foolish and angry.

If the OWH is going to be violent, from the information given, it is going to happen regardless.

In my situation, I spoke to the OMW for two hours. We compared notes and filled in each other's blanks. She got printouts of the OM's texts and told me things I never woud have heard from my WW at the time. It made all the difference in the world.

I wonder if the OW ever told the WH that "her" husband would break every bone in his body if they got caught?

He doesn't need to pay a wad of cash to a counselor to explain his actions. He had sloppy/nonexistent boundaries and felt entitled to a little something on the side because "WAAAAA!" He wasn't getting enough attention!!

Thank God you weren't the OWH in my situation.

What's to say the day won't come when Lily and her H have moved forward, put the A behind them and rebuilt their M, and suddenly a crazed OWH shows up at the door because he just found out? YEARS LATER. You think it's a good idea to let that hang over their heads? That deception of hiding this from his victim? The dishonesty of cowering in fear and refusing to acknowledge WH's responsiblity to make some sort of gesture to his victim???

That's a little thing WH should have thought about sooner...that the BH might have a little problem with him interfering in their M.

I would strongly suggest calling him tomorrow and telling him about the affair. Apparently he has good reason to be "jealous" and needs to know so he can protect himself from your H and his wife. Your H should be scared if he screwed with the wife of a "crazy" man. But that was his choice.

The part about a "violent husband" is a CLASSIC wayward wife LIE so don't let it bother you. She is not worried about it, so you should not worry either. I suspect this is a concocted story to keep you quiet.

The fact remains that this man has a right to know what your H and his sleazy wife did to him. Since you know, that job falls to you.

Additionally, I would expose the affair to his BOSS, ALL of your parents, close family and friends. Every one should know of the affair. Exposure is the BEST weapon you have against infidelity. It will wake up him up and make it harder to do it again.

And I would suggest you schedule a polygraph and tell him about the appointment 48 hours before hand. Hand him a list of questions and tell him he has until the polygraph to answer those questions truthfully but he flunks the PG, then you will know he still lying.

Right, and have these people seen said violent behavior themselves? Or is this just garbage that they were told by the OW?

My OW cried on my H's shoulder about how mean and abusive her fiance was and to their other coworkers. I actually felt a little sorry for her. Imagine my surprise when I came here to MB and I found out this is a VERY COMMON TACTIC used by the OW to garner sympathy. I can't tell you how many times I have seen this stated by the OW here in people's stories and it turns out to be untrue.

OWH has the right to know regardless and this is a safeguard you need to put into place to prevent the A from reigniting.

Do this before you do anything else ~ tell OWH ASAP.

Also I agree with the others ~ I would be real $$ this was a PA. Do what Mel said, tell him you are scheduling a poly. That's what my sister did when her H was completely denying the A. She printed out questions written by schoolbus (a vet here on MB) and put them on the kitchen table. He confessed to everything a short time later. I can post those questions for you if you'd like...

Susie,

Yes, can you post those questions? Thank you so much!

p.s. and if the OWH is "violent" then he is more likely to kick your H's [censored] if he finds out elsewhere. Maybe he won't beat him up if YOU are the one to call him and tell him.

However, I don't believe the "violent husband" story in the first place. It is a CLASSIC wayward wife lie. We have heard it a million times and exposure has never resulted in violence in these cases. [it is the ones with no history of violence who get violent in my history on this board] And the bottom line is this:

If she is not worried about it - and she knows him BEST - then why should you?

If it makes you feel any better, tell your husband AFTERWARDS that he should prepare for an [censored] whooping and watch his back. That is a job hazard of screwing around with some other man's wife, though. A RISK HE WILLINGLY TOOK.

You should not protect your husband and this skank from the consequences of their behavior.

This whole thread was lost in the MB crash last year but I had emailed the post to my sister and myself, that's why it looks weird. Here you go!

(t/j)
Rush, this is the MarriageBuilders forum. MarriageBuilders is a proven marriage-saving approach. It is distinguished from your opinion (or mine, for that matter). The difference is, some of us are here espousing MarriageBuilders-consistent opionions, and others are exhibiting the same disregard for truthfulness and decency that caused you to cover up your own affair for months, until less than 3 weeks ago.

Now you are advising poor Lilly to help maintain the coverup of her husband's OW's affair. This is directly contrary to MB principles. If you have questions about this, I suggest you broach them with Dr. Harley.

There is a very GOOD & sound reason for her to expose: The other spouse's knowledge adds daylight & scrutiny upon the affair. Affairs thrive in darkness & secrecy. The way you kill them is, you kill the secrecy. When one spouse knows, the affair becomes mighty awkward. When both affairees' spouses know, then it becomes even more awkward. Awkward is good! Exposure makes an affair awkward to continue and awkward to resume, more often than not. Exposure is a fundamental MarriageBuilders principle regarding ending affairs properly. That's the purpose it serves.

Rush, my affair ended when my OW was found out by her husband. That was exposure for me. I had to tell my wife at that point, because if I had not done so, then he surely would've. This saved my marriage, my family & perhaps my very life. It was the kick in the butt that I needed. It made it too awkward for me to continue behaving like a lying heel. It made it easier for me to put an end to the lies, the deception and the coverup that I'd been living.

A good segue back to decency: The other woman's husband is a human being whose wife has been subjecting him to a lie, not to mention risks to his very health. Following your advice, we would have Lilly treat that man as of no more consequence than the old gum on the bottom of your shoe. Rush, why does that man have no right to know? (Don't bother writing a dictionary's worth trying to come up with an answer. There ain't a single one that's right.) How about you just read up on every thread you find on these boards regarding "exposure" (you can use the "search" feature), until you understand what it's about & why it's so crucial, and save your advice for until after you understand how crucial it is?(End t/j.)

Lilly, I'll address your situation later. Hang in there.

Sorry I got here late.

Rush, you made the following points a while back:


I think the majority of the colleagues here have answered this, but I'd like to look at the two clauses together.

Let's leave aside the "duty" or "job" issues. Let's look at the ability of BOTH BS's with their combined knowledge, to answer the second question, EA vs EA/PA.

The prototypical good cop / bad cop routine is effective because to the one caught in the middle, it's not obvious what information the two poles are sharing. Lily will be drilling WH, while OWH is drilling OW. Unless those two AP's are more organized than the Dewey Decimal System, there will be discrepancies that Lily and OWH can consult on, compare, and act on.

What starts out as "Yeah, but......" will soon degenerate into, "Yes, and......"

ARe you kidding? So if your neighbor's bookkeeper was stealing money from him you wouldn't tell him because that would be "sharing some grief?" Why would you apply that loony logic to a much more dangerous crime of adultery?

Adultery is even worse than embezzlement because now this OWH might have an STD. His family and marriage are being threatened. It would be callous and cruel to not warn this man that he has been harmed behind his back. He can't very well protect himself from his wife and the OM if he doesn't know.

It is lies and adultery that harm people, not the truth.

Lilly, I'm very sorry life has brought you here to these boards in search of answers, but for where you are in life, it's as good a place as you can be.

I'm a guy who had an affair. It was an EA, then it turned into a PA. First off, I think there are people who make too much of a distinction between the two. PAs almost always start off as EAs. Two married people (not married to each other) don't just see each other from across a room one day and say, "Hey, you look hot, I'm Jeff, let's go get a hotel room & get busy." The percentage of that has got to be down in the single digits. Rather, what normally happens is that people develop emotional connections. The emotional connections are key, because without them, PAs mostly wouldn't happen. By allowing this emotional connection to form outside his marriage, he already broke his boundaries. The rest -- the PA -- was just a matter of time, of convenience & opportunity (or lack thereof) and progressively disintegrating scruples.

If there were sexual banter or texts involved, that doesn't mean it was physical, but it means that if it wasn't already physical, it was surely headed in that direction. I've lived it. I guarantee it. So don't give your H too much credit for not taking it all the way PA, if in fact he held off. He stopped only because you caught him, if he is not merely taking it underground.

On the other hand, it's possible that your catching him was a wakeup call that can allow the two of you to get help, to focus on what was missing in your marital relationship, to learn or relearn about each others' emotional needs, and to build a marriage that was better than the one you had before the affair. I want to give you a flicker of hope on that.

But it has to start with his being honest, and it has to start with your feeling safe. Taking a polygraph is one concrete step that can help you feel safe. It won't be a magic bullet -- he'll need to do other things as well -- but in this situation, where you can't be confident of his basic truthfulness, and where he's even admitted he'd lie to you if he felt like it (under guise of "not hurting you") -- a polygraph may be very helpful. $400 may seem steep, but if you check out what a divorce lawyer's retainer costs, and multiply that x 2, $400 will seem like a real bargain.

I suggest that you both read the book "Surviving An Affair." It has some stuff that was pretty eye-opening for both me & my wife, in the aftermath of my affair. If you do nothing else, that's the best place to start.

Lily, I don't know what the cancellation policy is on these thing,s but I'm guessing if you do it as MelodyLane suggests and give him the questions 48 hours in advance, you'll have your answers without actually have to take (and pay for) the actual test.

Possum, he will still have to take the test. She needs to go through with it. Many WS's use the doc dump in an attempt to avoid the test in the hopes the BS will cancel it. So they hold out key parts. But she won't know that until he goes to the polygraph. What happens is that alot of new stuff comes out on the WAY to the appt.

Lily, would your parents or his parents pay for the polygraph? I know I would be willing to do so if it were my son in order to give my DIL some peace of mind.

That is exactly what my husband says...it was headed in that direction. I asked him, if I hadn't of caught him, would he have slept with her. And he couldn't tell me no. He just looked at me and said "I don't know. I would hope not, but we were headed that way."

My gut feeling is that I caught it in the knick of time...although I could also be being a complete idiot, too. I just don't know.

He said he surely thought about it and was curious about it, but he said he was never ready to act on it yet. He said he felt like he wasn't doing something "as bad" if it wasn't physical.

He said me catching him was the wake up call he needed and he is grateful I caught it when I did. He said he was in such a "fantasy world" and he now sees the light. He said he is willing to do anything and everything to recover from this.

Obviously, it's not that easy for me.

I am obsessively reviewing phone bills, bank statements, emails, etc. My mind wanders all the time. It's just a terrible, terrible thing to go through. I am so heart broken and at such a loss. It happened a month ago and I am still crying and having breakdowns daily. I just hope we truly can get past this. I just don't know how long it is going to take.

I assure you the story would change if you made an appointment for a polygraph.

Did you see our posts about informing the OWH? As long as he is ignorant of what your H has done, your H is free to pursue the OW. But if the OWH does not know, he would never think to check up on her. He has to know what has done to him so he can protect himself and his children from your husband.

here

I cringe when I hear about EA and Gyms. My FWH had EA with OW at gym. Read Harley's why we can't forgive and forget. It will help you think about following a plan to recover your M.

Why We Can't Forgive & Forget letters to Harley

And just becasue your M had stresses doesn't justify or excuse your WH's behavior. You didn't choose to go outside your M.

Right now you're angry and are fearful because the foundation that held your M has been shattered. Sorry you are here but you've come to the rght place.

Gg

Lily, It saddens me that you are here, but I hope we all can help you. You've received mostly good advice so far and I hope you intend to follow it to the letter. You are very young in your marriage and the stresses of baby and pregnancy have just illuminated the poor boundaries your WH has. But this can be an opportunity to have the marriage you always dreamed of. Your WH has some heavy work to do to understand why this happened and how to prevent it. But this is your thread. So if I may summarize what you need to do:

1. Expose to OWH now. He deserves to know.
2. Establish no contact to YOUR satisfaction.
3. Schedule the Polygraph. It's for your peace of mind, and with the jumble of emotions and fears you are experiencing, you cannot rely on your gut right now. If your WH wants true recovery, he'll do anything you suggest.

Just so you know, my DH, GloveOil, jumped right on the recovery train as soon as he got found out by the OWH. He exposed to me, because he knew the OWH would tell me if he didn't. But even with his good intentions and desire to heal our marriage, he still tried to lie, trickle truth, and reinterpret the events of the A to suit him. Only by following the MB plan did we get to the truth and start recovering as a couple. A good MB counselor did that for us.

I would suggest you think about moving. If OW lives close by your DH's place of work, then maybe he should find a new place of work.

Don't feel badly about obsessively checking email, cell phone records, etc. I made GO show me credit card bills and email (he had deleted almost everything); I checked cellphone records diligently for months before I felt sure that nothing was going on. In that initial period it showed me when the A had begun and when it stopped. It also gave me ammunition for confrontations when I thought communication had stopped and it hadn't. Do what you have to do to feel safe.

Maybe I am taking this statement the wrong way...IDK...

EA vs PA doesn't matter in terms of following the MB plan for recovery, etc, yes, I agree with that.

But the reason that folks here push people to get a poly when only an EA is being admitted to (and there are red flags of a PA) is that if the WS isn't telling the truth they are going to remain stuck as a wayward, trickle truth hurts the chances for recoverying the M, additional ddays are very painful for the BS, STD testing has to be considered etc.

I have heard someone here recommend all BSs with a WS admitting to only an EA demand a poly ~ I tend to agree with that as I have seen SO MANY cases here where the BS later finds out it was really a PA...

I know personal trainers who insist on meeting the spouses of the women he is training. I think that's a super idea. Or you could also make a rule that he is to never be allowed to train women; only men.

Happy to clarify, SusieQ: Only meant to convey that lots of WSs will push, and some BSs will buy, the line or notion that EAs aren't as serious as PAs. I believe that except for the STD angle, an EA is every bit as dangerous to a spousal relationship as a PA.

My point for Lilly in this regard was & is that even IF this turns out to be "only" an EA (a determination which indeed she may not be able to make without WH getting a poly), he still has beaucoups work to do to fix his boundaries, and she shouldn't let him get away with minimizing the problem.

he admitted today they slept together. got a hotel on several occasions, etc.

i am devastated. where do i go from here? what do i do?

stay to one thread so we can follow your story.

Has he cutoff all contact? Have you exposed the affair?

Don't answer here. Go to your old thread and answer there. Stay in one place so new people can read your whole story.

Sorry you're going through this.

yes, it has been exposed. yes, as far as i know, contact has been cut off for the last month.

I am so sorry, Lily!! I am 2.5 years out from d-day and it seems to rarely happen all at once -- you get a little and then you get a little more. I think its part of how WS's work, thinking they are 'taking care' of their spouses, by only sharing what they think we can handle.
Please keep posting; count on your support system and even if you have counted on your WH as your 'rock' up to this point -- he is not a stable influence for anyone right now. Lean on other people so you can be calm and clear-headed as you decide your plan.
And, please, post here as much as you need!! There are such wonderful people here, who know what you are going through.
Some vets will also coach you via email, if you feel you need extra help -- let us what you need.
(((((((Lily))))))

lily, I read on the other thread that WH admitted the PA to you today.

I'm so, so sorry.

This is extremely hurtful, and your entire world is shattered right now.

But your M can survive this infidelity. Many of us here are living proof.

Have you gotten STD testing recently? Most pregnant women do.

i haven't been tested since the beginning of my pregnancy. i guess i probably should though...

i havent gotten a lot of answers, it was a quick 20 minute convo and he had to go to work. he should be home soon and i should get a lot more answers. i just cannot even think straight. i never in a million years thought he would do this. i have no idea how we are going to recover from this or how i will ever trust again.

I know. I felt the same way. My H was better than that ... or so I thought. It's really incomprehensible.

Have you contacted OWH yet? You should call him tomorrow, tell him you're 8 months pregnant and tell him what you know.

You asked earlier in this thread about contacting OW.

Don't do it! She's not worth a second of your time.

You think you'll get something out of it, but you really won't in the end. You'll just be more infuriated afterward.

Don't do it!

I wish I had taken the advice here too. Contacting the OM was pointless, frustrating and of no value. I felt worse afterwards and more frustrated. I now live in the twilight zone.

I am going to get my life in order and move on....that is what I choose to focus on. Me.

RC

Oh, Lilly, I'm so sorry. No one is glad they were right about this, believe me.

Brace yourself, sweetie. He's probably not done spilling the whole story yet. I'm sure there is a lot more he hasn't told you.

For your own sanity, ask him in a calm voice to tell you everything from start to finish. Listen to as much as you want. Stop him when it's too much.

You CAN recover from this. I know you can't comprehend that right now, but you can recover.

Lily

He said all that and none of it was true, as you now know.

How do they manage to lie so convincingly? Yes, we on this board knew that he was lying, but you, who have lived intimately with him for years, could not tell.

I had this experience with my H. Sometimes I already had the secret evidence when I asked him questions, and I would watch him carefully while he lied to me. There was nothing - no blushing, stammering, avoiding my eyes or anything that I could detect, to give him away. He told me things like this with heartfelt sincerity, usually holding me and looking deeply into my eyes.

How did you get him to confess? Did you schedule a polygraph?

I'm sorry for how you're feeling right now, lily.

Lily, glad you got the truth, but sorry for the pain. PLEASE get ahold of the OWH and let him know. He has a right to know the truth.

I am so sorry, lily. ((lily))

This is the next thing. And I am so sorry to deliver any more blows but with newly BSs, we worry soooo much about is whether there is any more contact. Unfortunately, waywards always think they CAN have a little contact and that it is OK...when that couldn't be further from the truth...

How can you safeguard against further contact? First, let the OWH know yourself (please don't fall for the "oh OWH told him herself already" line!). This is a loophole that CANNOT be skipped over. Please let us know whether this has been done yet.

Secondly, is your H willing to write a NC letter in accordance with SAA? We can provide you with a copy of this. No NC text or phone call. A letter that is mailed by you.

Third, if it were me, I would quietly place a GPS in your H's car. My sister did this with her H and it was not too expensive and she was able to track him via computer. Think of this, it is win-win. Even if you don't find evidence of any more contact, it will make you feel better to be able to confirm where he is. This helps a lot when trust has been destroyed.

Hang in there, lily...

Lily,

I'm so sorry to hear you have learned the truth, but it's okay you will survive, you don't think so right now but with a little time things will get better......
Don't fall apart there is time for that later, right now, you have to get a plan together.
You need to take care of yourself first and then everything else.
First of all if you want to save the marriage,
NO CONTACT has to happen or you can't work on anything.
You make sure the affair is exposed to everyone including the OW's husband and family.............
Then your husband should give you complete transparency with all his communication and whereabouts..........
You can save your marriage if both of you are willing to work things out, it takes time to rebuild trust and it will take time to believe in your marriage and your husband again............
Right now just breathe and put one foot in front of the other .......take it hour by hour if you have to.........
Lean on your family and friends right now...............you need them and it will make things easier for you..............
Don't worry about your husband, he has to deal with himself right now.......
You have to be the most important thing right now and your children, draw strength from them...........
None of us understand how the people we love can do this kind of act......
But know you will survive, I was in your place a year ago and I am much better now..................God is with you every step of your journey. Pray .........

Please do this, Lily. This will be your first step in taking the power back in your M.

Don't get overly emotional if you can help it. (I know, easy for me to say. )

Give him the facts: "Hello, is this OWH? This is WHW. I wanted to call you because you need to know that my WH has confessed to me that he had a physical affair with your WW (insert time period here.)

My WH is very upset over his actions and realizes now how wrong he was for his behavior with your wife. We are working to rebuild our M.

I think it's important for us to stay in touch so that we can make sure there is no further contact between the two of them. May I give you my number? I'd also like the two of us to be able to compare their stories to make sure we both have all the facts."

I would make this call with your WH sitting there. I also think your WH needs to apologize to BH.

How are you today, lily?

The best way to do this is without his knowledge and with no forewarning. I like your proposed dialogue, but am concerned about the WH being there. I can see all sorts of problems. First off, he probably will refuse to let her call the OWH and there will be a big fight. That means she either goes against his wishes and does it later, or worse yet, doesn't do it at all. That leads to the next problem, which is that the WS will FOREWARN the OW and then the story will be pre-empted. If she ever does call at that point, then her credibility will have been ruined.

Better to just avoid all that drama, pick up the phone today and tell the OWH and be done with it.

I'm confused about this. Specifically, the confusions stems from the fact that this is not the first time on this site I've read from former BW's that the WH should apologize to the OWH, yet never the flip-side, in which the suggestion is that WW's should, at the BH's direction, apologize to the OMW.

BW's: Would a supposdly contrite OW sending you a note apologizing, as if banging your husband were as excusable a faux pas as dinging you car fender, help? Because, as a FBH, I have to submit that an apology from OM would have been viewed more as a taunt, than true contrition. "Hey, dude, sorry I had an affair with your Mrs., but you can have her back now!"

Remember, as well, we have an active thread in "Recovery" in which the OWH "beat down" the WH (as part of his "Healing Process"?), and might not be a situation we want to facilitate.

I would urge Lily to demand her WH to spend all his time/effort/soul healing their marriage, not "settling up" with the OWH. OW will have to make good with him on her own.

Not to thread jack, but I received a letter from the OW about 8 months after d day and it made me sick! She asked for forgiveness and I gave it to her, but believe me I could tell by the tone of the letter that she was still all about herself and not caring how I felt. I didn't respond until three months later when she showed up at our new church and I wrote to her, asking her not to come back. She was less than remorseful.

Do not have your WH apologize to OWH unless OWH asks for it. Men may be different and feel differently about receiving a letter or call such as this, but I don't believe there is anything an OP can say to repair the damage they caused and they just come off as disingenuous.

{{{Lily}}}}

So sorry that you had to find this out, but you are getting good advice. Be strong and follow the plan; you can recover a better marriage than you ever had before.

The OWH needs to be your ally now to kill this A dead! Tell him today, right now.

I can't believe that your WH told you this information and then went to work. Reminds me of my D day (2 years ago today BTW) when from work GO called me at work to tell me he had to confess something. UGH! After I had a breakdown with my best friend, I called him and demanded that he come home so we could talk. Since your WH has trickle truthed you, you may have already decided some important issues like where he should sleep, what to tell the 2 year old, etc. but you two need to be together right now to hash out a plan. Call him and tell him to come home now!

Yes, yes and yes. That's a better idea.

I asked my H to apologize the OWH for me. I wanted to see him understand and acknowledge that there was a human being he had damaged. That human being had the right to be addressed personally.

I don't think many/most waywards consider the AP's spouse as even existing.

If the OW in my sitch had apologized to me I would have acknowledged the apology but would not have extended forgiveness.

Just my opinion. Sorry about the t/j, Lily.

lily,

I think you should do what you need to right now to protect your unborn baby, since you are so close to delivery.

Try above all to stay as calm as you can. You cannot change what has happened, but you can take care of yourself.

I think trying to keep calm is of the utmost importance and exposure, etc. can wait if you don't feel up to it.

When you are about to deliver any minute, I think that trying to remain calm and keeping healthy is the most important thing right now. I hope you are okay and did not go into early labor over this.

Take care of yourself, do what you can to protect yourself and kids. Your health, baby's health are more important than anything right now.

Hope you are okay.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

I disagree she should wait. Exposing to the OWH means the affair is more likely is be killed. She needs that added assurance at a time when she needs to focus on giving birth. Exposing the affair to the OWH means he can be watching the infidels while she gives birth. There is no reason to put off such a critically important step.

I'm worried about her health if she DOESN'T expose! The mental turmoil Lily is going through is horrible for her, and can't be good for the baby.

I understand mb, but the drama of exposure can be intense also.

I am more concerned for her and baby's health right now.

I agree exposure is important also. She is very close to her due date and I am worried about what all this drama is doing to her.

I just tried to communicate that she take care of baby and self first.

Only lily knows what she can and cannot handle at this time.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

In comparison to the "drama" of a resumed affair? Because that is the likely result if the OWH is not informed. Affairs are very traumatic, much more traumatic than exposure. Informing the OWH reduces the risk of resumption and she needs that peace of mind while she is having a baby.


Yes, that is why we told her to expose the affair to the OWH - busting up the affair IS taking care of her and her baby FIRST. She is scared to do so and now you have just made it that much harder to help this woman.

Thanks so much for interfering with the goal of helping her. I don't know how we would do it day in and day out without your annual cameo appearances to set the rest of us straight.

Sorry if I offended.

I hesitate to post, as you, ML and MB have such wisdom and I admire you both.

There's not a lot to post when you all have so much wisdom and knowledge for these hurting people.

Just speaking from my experience of having a 6 week premature baby due to very similar circumstances that lily is going through.

Enough said.

I do appreciate all of your hard work here. I agree with exposure.

And I will end the 'annual cameo appearance' at this time. I am sorry you feel that I have ruined your hard work here. Not my intention at all.

I'm out. Love you all, you have helped my on-going recovery more than you know.

My apologies for disrupting this thread.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

I am VERY offended and have been for years that you do this. Correcting those who are doing the heavy lifting when you do none is very galling.

I appreciate the apology.

ML,

Please check my posting history, and I think you will find that is not completely true. I won't defend myself further, this is futile.

Nevertheless, my apology is heartfelt.

Let's return this thread to helping lily. I will no longer post on this thread.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

MissM, I have been the beneficiary of your drive-by "corrections" over the years. I know your posting history. You have a history of jumping into situations to correct others or to interfere with those who are trying to help just as you did here. Years of threads/posts chastising contributing posters to "go help someone" when you can't be bothered yourself.

Now, we are put in a position to have to undo the damage you have done.

See, even though this woman is pregnant, it is critical that she expose to the OWH NOW so there can be at least ONE person watching out for her while she has the baby. If she doesn't expose now, it is much more likely that the affair will resume when she is incapacitated. The odds of that happening are much greater when there is no one there to watch. Affairs thrive on secrecy after all so the more secret, the more likely it is to resume.

So, yes while exposure can be "dramatic," a resumed affair is far worse than that. It is TRAUMATIC. It is all the more traumatic when you have just given birth. Is that what you want for this young lady?

When a new poster comes to this forum, they are all scared to death. Their success or failure is contingent upon their ability to overcome their fear and follow a plan. That leaves it to we board members - the regular contributors - to help that person overcome their fear long enough to follow a plan that seems very scary and counterintuitive. You make that mission all the harder when you float in and encourage a scared newcomer to follow their FEAR rather than a tried and true PLAN. They are drowning and we are trying to get them to grab the life raft; you come in and hand them an anchor.

I am asking that you rethink that strategy. If you are really here to help people, I would ask that you stop interfering when regular contributors are trying to help. It is not fair to them and it certainly is not fair to the desperate newcomer.

Lily, the vast majority of posters who have exposed are glad they did. They took back control of their lives. It was a relief for them.

Please consider doing this now, before you're recovering from childbirth and dealing with raging post-birth hormones.

Lily -
Exposure is the best method of starting the process of ending the affair by eliminating the "we're so special" cocoon in which the AP's wrap themselves. Rather than continuing to see themselves as poor misunderstood souls, meant to be together but kept (at least partially) apart by cruel fate and unreasonable society conventions, they are informed by right-thinking family, friends and colleagues that they, in reality, are skanky, broken slimeballs. As the majority starts to weigh in in that vein, their immediate reaction is NOT pleasant.

Their little "snow globe" being smashed, they will look to find the person responsible, and there you will be, proudly holding your little hammer. Skank-ho will bring pressure on WH (maybe even cutting him off from their previously-committed "perpetual rut"), and he will be very angry with YOU! How angry, and what his actions will entail, will only be revealed then. You know your WH and the prior state of your union better than we do, limited as we are to reading what you tell us.

This is going to happen; it's part and parcel of the consequences of the necessary exposure. Now, Lily, you decide when you want this to happen. All other factors being equal (which is complicated by your nine-month "special project"), earlier would be better than later - no question. But in any case being aware of the likely backlash and "drama" will certainly help you avoid the worst posssible outcome, in which you are struck by feelings of guilt and remorse for fighting with the tools at your disposal, and increase the odds of the optimum resolution, in which WH quickly sees the folly of his actions, and begins the ask your forgiveness. Remember - they began the A, you would be the one trying to end it, nothing more malicious than that.

hey everyone,

it has been a long few days.

other woman's husband knows. his wife disclosed everything to him. he showed up at my husbands work (but never came in, sat outside) and has been calling my husband daily. we arent quite sure what to do or how to handle it. this man is known for having major anger/violence issues (not just from his wife but from friends and people who know him). i know everyone is going to say my husband deserves it and all. but it scares me. violence in any form just freaks me out. especially being pregnant and with a toddler at home.

i just hope the other woman does not reveal our address. she was never here, but she works at the hospital/doctors office we attend and she has access to all our accounts if she so likes. addresses, social security numbers, phone numbers-anything and everything.

my husband is sick with guilt. vomiting, sobbing, hasnt eaten in 3 days. terrified i am going to leave him. he has been incredibly open and honest about every single solitary detail, which i appreciate. we are hopefully starting counseling this week through church. waiting to hear back from our pastor.

side question...of course i am in NO WAY ready for him to even touch me right now, but out of curiosity...when you guys did feel you were ready to take that step, how long did it take you to feel that way? how long did it take for you to embrace, kiss or be intimate with your spouse again? i cant even imagine him ever touching me let alone seeing me nude again. just makes me sick.

oh and miss m...i noticed in your signature that your husband continued contact for another 4 months after you found out...how did you make that discovery? that is what terrifies me the most. is that he is somehow still talking to her and i have no clue of it. i REALLY dont think he is, but of course, i cant help but wonder.

i have blocked her home, cell and work numbers from his cell phone (unbeknownst to him). they cannot call, text, etc. back and forth at all.

but that doesnt stop emails or calls from work...which is where my worry is.

Hi Lily2009,

When I first found out I needed him to hug me when I was distraught, at first he didn't hug me back(he had the affair and was claiming to be in love with skanky Ow) but I figured he put me in this place he should give some time of comfort for me. It helped me calm down and I think it helped us feel close again.........It was our only way of connecting for the first couple of months.........Even though it was tough and it didn't feel real it was a small way for us to feel together.....
Every couple is different with what they can give, you will know what and when it feels right.........
Don't try to protect your husband right now, every bit of stress because of what he has done is a good thing, he is really having to come to terms with his foolish decisions..........
Let the situation just take care of itself...............
You just take care of yourself............and the babies of course.......
(hugs) jessi

lily, I am relieved that the OWH knows. That way you have 2 people watching them from both ends. I would consider calling the OWH and offering to stay in touch and compare notes with him. Tell him you are pregnant and maybe that will help him relax a bit. It will also help you ensure that contact ends.

Your H and the OW don't work together, do they? Have you and your H arranged your lives so you NEVER see the OW again? Does she work for your doctor? And if so, does her boss know she had an affair with your H?

I would notify her boss that she is a threat to you and ask that she be kept away from your records. Do you have to see her when you go to the hospital? Is there any chance of an accidental meeting?

At our hospital you have to log in with your code and such. They can't just log into check anyones records. That is a good way for her to lose her job. My WH OW also works at the hospital we attend. B/c she works in a specific unit, I think she can only have access to those in the unit at that time. We just have to make sure that she NEVER takes care of us when we are there or have us transferred to another hospital. I have also thought about writing to the CEO of the hospital b/c she often called my WH and talked to him for long periods of time while she was supposed to be working.

no, she is a financial analyst at the hospital, so deals with the bills and such. there is no way of running into her at the doctors office or hospital...ever. she is in a completely different building.

no, they dont work together. my husband was her personal trainer at the gym...that's how they met. he no longer trains her, obviously, and she cancelled her membership at the gym.

oh and as far as records...i know she has easy access, because back when i thought she was "just a client" of my husband's and didn't have an inkling of suspicion, she was telling my husband she would help us with our medical bills by "seeing what she could do" on her end, since she's so high up in the finance department and such. my husband would come home and tell me "oh i have this client that works in finance at the hospital and i think she may be able to help with some of our debt we have there...she's looking into it..." and over the course of a month or so, she pulled our records several times and sent us several pieces of mail. again, this was LONG before i ever suspected a thing.

You need to contact the hospital. What she did was unethical. I would think that the CFO of the hospital would look negatively on OW for doing such a thing.

+1 for contacting OWH. Get that other set of eyes on these two.

lily, please listen to clark and notify the hospital. If she has access to your records, then she can harm you.

Does your husband's employer know that he has no boundaries around his female clients and is not to be trusted professionally? That is a very dangerous profession for him and I would strongly suggest he either find a new line of work or tell his employer that he is not be trusted with females so they can watch him. He is a walking legal liability to them. Not to mention that he is not a professional at all.

If her position is such that she felt powerful enough (rightly or otherwise) to do something FOR you, she certainly has the same opinion of her power to do something TO you.

And Lily, in a prior posting you said
EXPOSURE is the cork in the bottle of your doubts. It sears the guilt-pain your WH allegedly is suffering into his very soul, and enlists all family and friends into your corps of watchdogs that he doesn�t do anything like this again.

lily, I would put together a letter and send it to the director of Human Resources, a key VP and the OW's supervisor.

I am going to alter BritsBrat workplace letter a little to give you an idea. You can change it up how you see fit:

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

OW and my H, WS, were until very recently, involved in an extramarital affair that was taking place, in part, during work hours. This involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. OW has used her position in the finance department to access our records and do_____________________.

This seems to be a conflict of interest due to her affair with my husband. Since the affair has ended, my concern lies in her continued unprofessional access to our records.

If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find she was spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________

hey everyone...

we are in a bit of a bind. have been trying to find counseling and our church is booked. we then called all the other local churches and they are either booked or not offering anything at this time. we then started calling MFTs in our area and they are all outrageously expensive. our marriage is an absolute priority and we both agree that we are going to have to do what we have to do...but we really can't afford $140+ a week. things are already extremely tight around here and my husband's job hasn't been going well for a while (two of the stresses in our marriage) and with baby #2 coming in 6 weeks...we are just having a really hard time coming up with that money every week for sessions.

any advice? anyone know where we can qualify for or get some sort of low income services? we NEED help. it is so discouraging that getting it has been so difficult. if only money grew on trees...

thanks guys. you have helped me more than you know this past week.

You could start by doing the MB online courses here on this site. Keep trying the MC through a church, i don't really have many more suggestions.

Lily2009,
Can you have him post here and promise to not read eath other's threads for now. This is a great place for any WS or BS.........hearing other people's experience or learning what is the norm for WS and learning what an affair does to a BS is a good way to learn and approve on your relationship.
Take the questionaires, follow the advice, this site has helped a lot of people and even if there is a time where the $ is more readily available you two can book some time with the Harley's ......
Good Luck

Can you go to another hospital? This business of OW having access to your personal info is not good.

no.

thats where my doctor is and is contracted at, etc.

lily, marriage counselors are so destructive to marriages that you can probably do a much better job on your own using the materials here. Marriage counselors don't have the slightest idea how to save marriages and have an 84% failure rate. They have a higher personal divorce rate than the general population.

Marriage Builders is completely different from traditional counseling in that they teach you how to restore the romantic love to your marriage. Other MC don't even believe that is possible. But it is very possible and it doesn't a long time to achieve.

Many people here have done this on their own by using this program. [others need extra help via phone coaching or the weekend seminar but this can be done on your own]

I would suggest trying this on your own and if that doesn't work, then try to scrape together the money for a few sessions with the Harleys. But it is very possible to do this on your own successfully.

Here is what I would do:

1. affair proof your marriage. Your H needs to change the environment that led to his affair. That means he stops training women, opens up his life with complete tranparency. Answers all your questions honestly about his affair. End all opposite sex friendships and stop acting inappropriately around women. He really needs to tell his employer about his affair so they can watch him.

2. get these books, [they sell them cheap on this website] Surviving an Affair, Lovebusters, and Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook and the Basic concepts DVD here.

3. pull the undivided attention worksheet out of the back of the workbook and make several copies. Sit down once a week and schedule 25 hours per week of undivided attention time focusing on these top 4 intimate emotional needs: affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. <------------------this step will make the fastest, most effective love bank deposits - this program does not work without this step. This time should be spent without kids, without TV, giving each other undivided attention. Read this article.

4. Read the books SAA and Lovebusters and follow the program outlined in them. Use the worksheets in the Five Steps to Romantic Love workbook

5. utilize the Marriage Builders radio program. You can email Dr Harley and he will answer any questions on his radio show or via email. You get a free book for the call. You will learn SO MUCH from his show. here

6. Bring your husband here and we can help him too

Have you informed the hospital about this affair so they can ensure the OW does not have access to your private files?

Good point about the HIPAA laws. The OW is in a compromised position as it relates to HIPAA. The hospital should know about this.

Anybody know if you can recover a deleted gmail email account?

I don't think there is any way to recover a deleted gmail account.

I just checked gmail support.

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=7cc8176df2010429&hl=en

Looks like it's pretty nigh impossible.

With the ow attempting to illegally "fix" a hospital bill (am myself in health care) and her purusing the personal information, that is a DIRECT HIPPA violation and she should face imminent termination.

Get the B fired. Now. Send that template letter now! She should have NO access to your personal information if it is n o directly related to a bill or a recent hospitalization.

And her offer to "fix" a bill? Also illegal. Grounds for termination on the spot.

Send letter like yesterday.

For example, if a healthcare provider or ancillary staff decides out of the blue, to access a friend or neighbors' medical history or personal information, there ARE precautions in place to monitor who sees what and there are eyes and a huge IT department where I work who verify stuff like that.

If she does that, or attempts to tamper with medical billing, that is fraud. Tampering or illegally accessing a medical file to gain personal information on her affair partner, or to disturb the wife of her affair partner is the hipaa violation and both imho, are grounds for termination.

well, she claims she went about it the "right" and "legal" way...she said she put us through the low income family program to get us the discount...

ok...i have some questions after a weekend full of more trickle truth.

i thought i knew it all. i thought he had come clean with everything.

i decided to take a gander through his phone (which i have been doing daily-since december 4th...d-day of EA). i look back through deleted items and such and long story short, come across a secret email account he had with her. i decided to look it up and it was closed. this made me happy. but i still felt like i didn't know quite the whole truth.

i told him i found out about it and i was able to recover it, so before i read the emails, i needed him to come clean and tell me of what i am about to read. i was giving him the chance to tell me first.

so, a few more things came out...weekends i thought he was on business, he was out of town with her, etc.

i also found out that when i thought there had been absolutely no contact...there has been a few emails...according to him. i found out on december 4th. i thought he had written her a NC email and that there had been no contact since then. apparently, he said that the first two weeks were rough. they continued to email...he said not consistently, but every few days. just talking about how much it sucks that they got caught, how they missed each other, etc. he said after a few weeks, he knew he wanted to be with me and that he stopped contact.

then, d-day of the PA-jan 4th. apparently there were 3-4 emails exchanged a, nd he told her he confessed everything, i was devastated and things were really bad at home. she wrote back and said she was so sorry and if he needed anything she was there for him. he said he never checked the email again.

he said about a week ago he decided he better close the account all together. because he was absolutely done. he said in these last 3 weeks he hadn't checked it at all and when he opened it back up to close it down the other day, there were about 10 emails from her. she had been emailing every other day or so for the last few weeks. he claims he didn't read them and he shut down the account. (he shut down the account without me even knowing).

so i guess my questions are these...how can i absolutely verify contact is done?! she is blocked from his cell phone, their secret account is closed, she is blocked from all his other email accounts... is there anything else i can ask him, check on, look into, etc.? i am just absolutely terrified of forgiving, working through this, giving my all to him and this marriage again, only to find out he is still talking to her...

How about asking him to take a polygraph?

i could, and find out if he has been talking to her...but that's not something that can stop him from talking to her in the future, ya know? and i certainly can't afford to be polygraphing him every month.

i couldnt take it anymore. i wrote the other woman a letter. she was continuing to contact my husband. her and her husband phoned me yesterday. talked for 2 hours. i am even more broken than before. more light was shed on the situation and hearing her voice, listening to her words...broke me down so badly. she was not remorseful at all. she rubbed salt in the wound every chance she got. my husband is so angry he doesnt know what to do. i am so exhausted emotionally and physically. i might just throw in the towel. i cant do this for the rest of my life.

someone please help. talk to me. im shattered.

let me clarify...my husband was not contacting her. i was still checking his "secret" email he had with her (he didnt know i found out about it) and she was trying to get him back in every way. he stopped checking the email and responding to emails in december.

How was she able to contact your H? What was your conversation with OW and her H about?

read my above post about their contact...

she pretty much wanted to know what else i wanted or needed from her so i could move on and not contact her again. she said my email made the crap hit the fan in her house, when her and her husband her mending things (which is crap, cuz she was still emailing my husband begging for him back).

she told me side of the story. that she was in love with my husband but is over him now and he is dead to her. she apologized and said this was the biggest regret of her life, but it wasnt convincing AT ALL.

her husband had a few questions for me...wanted to know if our stories matched or if there was anything else he didnt know.

she rubbed salt in the wound a few times by telling me how romantic and passionate my husband was with her. how intense their lovemaking was. how they had a connection he said he had never had with me...she hurt me beyond words.

ICK! Lily, don't allow that skankho to upset you! Can you imagine how bad her BH must feel to have to hear that trash coming out of her mouth? Waywards have no conception of the damage that they do.

Remember that: she is a trashy piece of scum who does not have the right to be on the same planet with you!

Lily, you've got to get NC/EPs firmly in place. This means changing phone #s and close down the old email address. Close all loopholes so that she can't get through. And if she still finds a way and makes ONE more contact, get a restraining order placed on her.

Lily2009,
That low life woman had no right to interfere in your marriage.....she is the one that should be hurting not you........don't give her any power, all you can do is feel sorry for someone like her, always blaming someone else, taking what is not theirs, being selfish and narcistic . You doesn't even deserve to carry you gym shoes to the game............who makes her anybody anyway...........

(((lily)))

We have all been there...we know exactly what you are going through and what you are feeling...you are among good company here.

You WILL get through this, I know it doesn't feel that way now...your M can be better and stronger than ever but you need a PLAN. Recovering from an A has a very narrow path.

Will your H post here? We can help and encourage him as well. You both need to start using the MB concepts in your M. It is your best bet for fully recovering from this.

(((lily)))

can you help me with a plan? what do i do and where do i start?

we have been in therapy since dday in december...been spending qt together, etc....

Sure...your best bet is to STOP with the MCing. We went to three different MCs and they were all a complete waste of time and money.

It would be better to spend that money on books from this website. Go to the top of the page and click on Bookstore. Order these books:

*Surviving An Affair
*His Needs, Her Needs
*Lovebusters

Read all of these books, beginning with SAA. While you are waiting for your books, both you and your H should start familiarizing yourselves with this site and the concepts. You can begin by reading the Basic Concepts.

You can IMMEDIATELY begin instituting the POUA (Policy of Undivided Attention ~ spending 15-20 hours/week alone together ~ after the kids are in bed counts ) where you meet each other's ENs of:

*Conversation
*Recreational Companionship
*Affection
*SF (Sexual Fulfillment)

That should get you started. Can you ask your H to come here and post too? We can work with him on writing out and living by EPs (Extraordinary Precautions) so that you can start feeling more comfortable and so that he can begin making amends.

Stay here and post, ask questions...start learning the MB concepts so you can begin recovering your M. Lots of us have done it, you can too...but you must ACT and use a plan. This is the best plan I've seen for recovering a M.

thank you so much. i really appreciate it.

you know, one of the hardest things i am struggling with is what the ow thinks. i know this is ridiculous and i know it sounds like the last thing that should be on my mind right now. but i just feel so incredibly humiliated and vulnerable. this woman knows EVERYTHING about my marriage, sex life with my husband, etc.

he voiced every frustration to her. he fell in love with her. he chose to be with her (at that time) over me and the kids. he lied to me to be with her...all of this she knows and i just wonder...she must think he could care less about me. she must think i am his last priority and he cant possibly love me if he was doing something like that to me.

when we were on the phone she kept telling me there was more that my husband wasnt telling me but she wasnt going to be that person to devastate me even more. this got my mind wandering. my husband says she is full of crap and trying to rub salt in my wound and he has told me everything there is to tell.

my husband and i are having some financial struggles and he expressed this to her. he also expressed if he were to ever leave me it would leave him financially strapped. i feel like she must think that he is only staying with me because of money and the kids. that if he could, he would leave and be with her.

i know my mind is just running wild, but i just wish she knew everything my husband is expressing now. i wish she knew how much he regrets everything he did with her. i wish she knew how much he really does want to make this marriage work. i wish she knew how much he hates her now and how easy she made things for him...i could go on and on.

i dream of a day when my husband and i are in a good place again and we are out and about holding hands/smiling/looking ever-so-in love and she spots us. i know it sounds juvenile...

oh and i dont know that i could get my husband to post here...i can try.

but everything i bring to him from this site he is 110% open to using. he is just not big on "talking about our problems with internet strangers". he's weird like that.

what are the list of extraordinary precautions? we could definitely benefit from getting that in place...it would certainly make me feel a heck of a lot more comfortable...

Lilly,
I think what you are feeling is pretty normal in the recovery process....I think people capable of affairs are capable of being very self serving, of course the OW is going to talk to you like that she wants you to believe she actually meant something, but you know what if your husband really thought she was the better choice he would be there right now.......
Why we give them so much power I will never know........I think they feel very insecure about the whole thing, it's the only way they can cope with getting dumped and just being the OW, worthless in the bigger picture of life......
My advice would be to not give her any more power over you, she isn't worth a minute of your time, your time should be spent on you and your family and marriage........my therapist says to "trust until" it takes awhile, just do what is right and good for you and your husband and sooner or later you will have that in love relationship and when she walks by the two of you won't even notice her......
The best revenge is to make that life better than it was before her.......pay attention only to your husband's actions................
looking good lily hang on to that.

All waywards make up lies about why they can't leave the BS to be the AP, and it's usually the same lie ~ they aren't very creative, LOL.


Every BS wishes this. Instead of focusing on how you wish this was the case, focus on how funny it is that the OW was stupid enough to BUY all of his lies. Think about how gullible she is and how your H obviously had even less respect for her than he had for you ~ he lied to her, used her (as someone uses a prostitute, except she didn't even get paid for putting out) and then scraped her off the bottom of his shoe like dog cr*p.

Trust me, it's obvious to her that she meant nothing to him ~ he is with you now, trying to repair your marriage, even though it's going to be an uphill battle. YOU are worth it to him, she is not.

And why do you think she was so cruel to you? Because deep down she KNOWS all of this ~ she knows she is nothing compared to you.