This is sort of a "wonky" thread because it is a merged thread. Sorry. I didn't know to post once originally. I'm editing out repeated parts of posts I made.

What do I do?

I stumbled upon an email account. Accidental on both our parts (he forgot to clear his history and I was trying to figure out a website I had seen in the past).

WS and OW (EA and PA) met through work (not coworkers or supervisory--he's an auditor and audited her). She lives in our town.


He knows I know. He verified. He wants to speak with her for closure. I do not know how to proceed. Updated: he called her this same day behind my back.

Oh, her husband is, apparently, a prescription drug user. I'm assuming it would be dangerous for him to know.

This is a copy of the post I made on this forum at the beginning of December. I think I know where the anger was coming from now. He's worked on that a lot. He was well into the affair when I wrote this message though. I think that explains why all efforts I made did no good. He is/was completely withdrawn from me and in love with her already.

If you notify the mods, they will move this to the surviving an affair section.

There is more traffic there. There is a lot of help for you there.

moved from other forum. bump

Posting answers to some questions I found on this part of the forum.


How old are you? How old is your WS(wayward spouse)? We are both 37.

Do you have any children? How old are they? Two boys are 7 years old.

How long have you been married? Is this the first marriage for both of you? First marriage for both and we've been married 15 years.

How did your WS meet their AP? Through the workplace. They are not coworkers presently. She lives in our town. He was transferred to another location for work last month.

How long did the A last? 3ish months I think.

How did you find out about the A? I stumbled upon an email account. Accidental on both our parts (he forgot to clear his history and I was trying to figure out a website I had seen in the past).

Have you ordered the book Surviving an Affair by Dr Harley? Have you read it? I just found the account very late last night/early this morning. He verified the affair this morning.

Study up on marriagebuilders,reading up on http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html
read the book Surviving An Affair,
google 'phobease' which is a behavioural program to deal with OCD (many hospitals support and recommend the program and there are booklets and
cds to use if you are not near a clinic that offers the course)

and try to believe that you can make things better for yourself, the kids and maybe the H with patience, courage, new knowledge and time.

I have been reading here.
This is a combined thread.

WH admitted to the affair this morning after I stumbled upon email evidence last night. I hadn't told him I knew yet but he figured out I had been on his email last night (time stamp I guess). Added: he found this account too, didn't know that until much later.

My questions:

1. I had no clue. He had purchased a separate phone, had set up an email account on hotmail, was communicating and meeting to/from work primarily (or on breaks/lunch), etc. I don't know how I would know if this continues?? I mean I know of the current email account and new phone...but he can get another of both.

2. He said he is committed to this marriage and will end it. edited: waffling on that some But he also believes she is his soul mate (and he hers), they love each other, she's the only one who could be all to him....etc. How do I get over knowing he feels he's leaving the perfect person for him because he's "stuck" with me via marriage?

3. Her husband is, apparently, a prescription drug abuser. I don't know if he might be violent or what. Does he need to know for this to end?

4. He does not want to write her a letter. He feels she needs to be told it's over in person for closure for both of them? edited to add: he contacted her in secret to tell her I knew and this was over (and they decided to have some contact)

5. I am sick--not just emotionally but physically. Normal? Will I stop feeling gutted?

Please stick to one thread, it makes it easier to follow.

Yes everything you are feeling is normal. The more experienced people will give you great advice.

The advice - do whatever they tell you.

I am so sorry to hear this...I can't imagine how you must be feeling. I don't really have any advise,just wanted you to know that you are not alone.

You have caught your husband with his pants down. Because he is currently addicted to the A, his first course of action will be to drive the A underground, while telling you the A is over. This is virtually guaranteed. You have likely just found the tip of the iceberg.

If your H said the OW's husband is violent, you are getting the classic "he can't be told because he will hurt me" routine. This is classic fogbabble horsesh*t. And the part about them being soulmates, this is another CLASSIC line that is absolute horsesh*t. Your H is out-of-his-mind-high on the drug induced state of an A. For now, don't believe anything he tells you.


When the vets here give you the exact prescription to follow, you must heed their advice, even if it seems counterintuitive. Affairs must be dealt with similar to a drug user's addiction.

You will have to expose his A far and wide. But before you do this, you need to put some monitoring tools in place: keyloggers on computers, voice activateed recorders in his car, and a GPS tracker too.

Put your helmet on and get ready for a war.

Well, he's talked (secretly) to her once or twice since I found out I guess. He's clearly not ready to completely cut off contact. He mentioned something about contacting each other on birthdays because that's important to her and when they might run into each other they would say hi and such. Ugh.

I don't know how to do this. How would I put a keylogger on his work computer (govt/State issued). How do the voice activation things work--I'd need to check it daily? How would I know what he's doing at work?

I don't feel like I can monitor him and clearly I can't trust him.

Sandra2, sorry that you are here and welcome to MB.

Can you notify the mods and ask them to combine your threads to make it easier for people to help you?

Your WH and OW met through work, but you said on another thread, that they no longer work together. Does your WH still work for the same company though? Was he her supervisor? Why did he transfer out of that other workplace?

OW is married, do you have the info for OWH? You will need to expose this A to him as well. There have been COUNTLESS times when a WH says, "But her H is abusive and will harm her if he finds out." The BW exposes and finds out that there was no such abuse taking place. OW need to be saved from their marriages and WH love to be the knight in shining armor. Don't fall for it, and even if it were true, that isn't YOUR problem. OW and WH obviously weren't frightened enough of BH to NOT have an A. And can you imagine what your WH says about YOU?

Have you read all of the info on this site? Have you read up on Plan A and Plan B? Do you have any questions about it? Do you have any ideas on how you will snoop on your WH?

Make a list of all of the people you are going to expose this A to, include their workplace. Also, you will need to tell your children.

All of your instincts about not being able to trust your WH are BANG ON. Also, DO NOT let your WH dictate how this is going to happen. YOU are in the drivers seat now. You will DEMAND an end to the affair with NO CONTACT FOR LIFE and a NC LETTER written by your WH and okayed and sent by YOU.

Please, don't tell your WH about this site yet. You are going to need to protect this resource until you are SURE that you are on the recovery road.

Great! Keep reading. Read other people's threads because there's nothing new under the sun. I am also finding so many similarities in people's experiences, it's unreal. Hang in here. You will be amazed.


.
You can write this into your siganture so everyone sees that on every post.

My questions:


They all say so but the truth is they will not desist until you take drastic steps to expose.


Yes he needs to know!....and of course anyone else who can snuff the life out of this affair. Let the OW worry about her husband's violence. Obviously his violence was not threatening enough otherwise she wouldn't have started the affair in the first place.


No you can't but if you hang in here, you'll get all kinds of ways to snoop. I dont have all the answers but I do know that snooping is encouraged and you should do it like there is no tomorrow.

5.
Have you read Dr. Harley's Surviving an affair? or at least articles on MB re:affairs? Order this book, read voraciously and stay on this blog. Do what you're told. You have a long road ahead of you. Hang in there!!!! God bless you. Know his presence is with you.

I'll ask for a combine.
I have been reading. I am operating on about 1.5 hours of sleep I think and I'm not thinking clearly even outside of that fact.

I have read plan A and B but I don't know how I would monitor him. There is the work computer (sensitive work too so a keylogger would likely be not ok), his willingness to buy new phones, and that she lives in this town. Her husband works 2nd shift so that makes contact during work time easy.

On the work thing I guess I can be plain. He is an auditor and this is a person he audited (prior to the beginning of the affair). He's no longer in the town at least at this point due to transfer. Clearly he would lose his CPA license should he audit her at this point so work will have be made aware should he be placed in this area again.

He's been lying to my face even today. He told me he wouldn't contact her until we decided how and I was involved and he did anyway. He agreed to no contact and then hatched a plan to have some contact.

Here is the thing. She told him today that if I made "trouble" for her in life she'd be mean to me. (Does she think she's been kind to me thus far?) I don't know what she means but I am concerned given there is no telling what he's painted me to look like (not good based on the emails I've read). This came out because he had originally said I could listen in and even talk to her (I declined) this morning and then this afternoon when I mentioned again how to break this off he said something about my not being involved because it wouldn't go well and eventually out came his talking to her and etc.

Read up Plan A and Plan B and get cracking.

You will need to expose this to EVERYONE and you will need to get ready for Plan B in about 3-4 weeks. This means TOTAL separation from your WH and NC except through an intermediary. Would you be willing to do this?

If he believes that OW is his "soulmate" then he will not stop contact overnight. Do not believe anything he says. Do not believe anything OW says.

Do not warn before exposure.

I made all the above mistakes. I believed everything he said when he looked me in the eyes and promised NC. When he broke down and cried and promised NC.

FWH and OW just took it further underground. It is an addiction. You have a good chance of stopping this if you follow the vets advise.

Also, he will stay with you because you are a woman of character and integrity not because he is obligated by marriage. OW is a liar and a cheat... deep inside he knows this.

Lots of love. Oak

Thank you for the replies. I am trying to take it all in. He found this site and my posts here I guess. I thought I erased history but I don't know that much about computers and I guess I didn't. He had opened the file I saved last night with copies of the emails too.

I'm starting to feel less numb and shocked and more angry. I can't see how I can try to start working on building anything back with him. I am in withdrawal big time. He clearly expects me to jump to and get on fixing all the stuff that he thinks caused this.

Per your request, your two threads have been merged into this one.

ok, Sandra, here is how you kill this little affair. Make up a list of exposure targets and gather their phone #s. Plan to expose the affair wide and far on the same day. Here is how your list should look:

1. OW's husband
2. OW's facebook friends and family [copy and paste her facebook friends into a WORD doc and send them all private messages - spaced out 1 minute apart or they will shut you down for flooding - we have a template]
3. your husbands parents and close family - call them up and ask them to use their influence to persuade him to end his affair
4. your friends and family
5. children over the age of 4

While it is no guarantee, exposure can be ruinous to affairs because affairs thrive on secrecy.

Once you are done with these exposures, I would contact the OW and let her know that it can get worse if she doesn't stay away from your husband.

If he has read your posts, then expose NOW, before he tells everyone his lunatic wife will be claiming that Mr Perfect is having an A.

When I found the emails last night (it was around midnight) I actually called my parents and his parents. We all talked. They know the whole sordid mess. There is clear pressure from the families for him to stop all contact. His parents spoke with him several times today telling him that no matter how he felt (he said he loved her to them) that he had to stop. They were emphatic. He "confessed" to a couple of friends who had already known, advised him to stop, told him to tell me, etc. that he had continued after he told them he cut it off. (He said he intended to but just couldn't do it.) I told my friends though, given he's telling his friends I don't think mine additionally matter two hoots to him. I did that for my support.

The sticky point here for me is her family. I'm actually sort of afraid of what she might do to me/my family. She clearly wants me to leave her life out of this and expects that. Her husband is not mentally stable is the word I'm getting. Then I can't see telling my little boys either at this point? One is autistic. Ugh.

And I feel like I can't possibly try to build anything with him now? I don't know how I "reward" him for doing this basically? I guess I have to but I just don't know how I'm going to manage.

Where are you getting this word? From WH? WH are notorious for lying. In fact, around here we call it li-ar-rhea.

You need to get busy exposing this A RIGHT NOW! Make up a list of contacts (her side and your H's side). Don't believe for a minute the stuff they are making up about her BH. You wouldn't believe some of the stuff that we've heard about the insane other betrayed party. It is supposed to frighten you from doing any kind of exposure. Don't let it!

Start writing a list of exposure targets. List ANYONE who may have an influence on either of them. This is not done to be vindictive but to shine a light on their A. Once they know that everyone else is watching, the A will lose its pazazz. You must do this all at once, trickle exposure will not work.

Have you bought "Surviving an Affair" yet? If not, go get it. If you can't get it for a few days, go to your nearest library and check it out. This will be your Bible to help you through.

Breathe....

This is where I would start. Begin with her husband and then branch out to her parents, family and friends. She should be very afraid of what you will do to her. You can do this, Sandra, and should not skip this step. Her husband and family have every right to know what she has done. Shine the light of day on this cockroach.

As far as telling your children, I would tell those who can understand. Can your autistic child understand?

LIARRHEA And liarrhea is so true. If the OWH is such a nut job wouldn't WH be to afraid to park his car in the OW's garage because the OWH would slam his car with the garage door when he gets caught?

Expose to all and atart off first with the OWH.

As to him being resposible to sign off on OW your WH is on shakey legal grounds as to Bernie Madoff's accountant that provided audits to say Madoff was being honest now has the law after him.

Your WH can no longer work at this job to have NC with the OW.

Sandra, you're in the driver's seat right now. Do not steer in fear! OW's husband is your prime target. I wish I had a nickel for every betrayed spouse who was supposed to be demented. After exposure those spouses are all pretty much the same: just crushed, not demented.

Painting the other betrayed spouse as a lunatic is a standard wayward practice that is done to keep the other betrayed spouse from doing what needs to be done - exposing the A.

Sandra2 - FWIW, right now my WW is telling me that my MIL thinks I'm 'off my rocker' and my WW is 'not safe in our home.' She's known me almost a decade and I've never, ever, been abusive towards WW physically or emotionally (unless you count the MB principles used to break up the A as psychological warfare). WW seems to forget that she had the affair - which isn't a sign of mental stability IMHO. So, you see, some parts of my WWs family are trying to make me look crazy. Unfortunately for them, it's hard to reconcile a single event (exposure) with years of behavior. I'm not vindictive, mean or manipulative. I just shed light on what was going on.

My FWW said the OM told her that his wife was psychotic, had anger issues, etc, and was a threat to everyone if she found out. Funny how he wasn't scared when he was naked with my wife.

After I had a 2-hour phone call with her, she was one of the nicest women I had ever talked to, and she was the one victimized by her angry, selfish husband.

As others have said, the OW's husband absolutely has to know about this. It's almost laughable to think that the OW or her husband will be "mean" to you. Your WH had many, many opportunities to avoid the A if the OW's husband was unstable.

Don't be victimized again by more lies. Expose NOW! It is "your" WH who is the unstable predator right now.

Sandra, telling OMs girlfriend (now engaged wtf) busted my wifes affair in two hours.

Family is great, the other spouse is lethal to affairs. Get it done. I hope he is nuts, that would be really good for you.

You need to do this.

Your WH thinks he is in love with OW and she is his "soulmate." However, if you make trouble (expose) then OW will be mean to you.

This is his soulmate? Someone who will be abusive to his kids' mother? Really??

Your WH is deep in the fog and not thinking clearly. This will continue until NC is established.

Don't listen to threats. I myself was painted as a psycho crazy jealous wife to keep OWH from contacting me to get the truth.

If you honestly think that you may be in danger - call the police. Get a restraining order.

I think she's scared I will mess up her family life (tell her kids, husband, friends, work (her work email was used), etc. Further, husband knows things about her life that her family and children don't know--she doesn't want them to know--outside of the affair. Big things.

Ya, he keeps saying that she would never hurt our family even though that is exactly what she was doing. I listened to a voice mail from here where she is telling him to hug those sweet blessings from God or something and this will all work out if they keep being faithful (faithful to ???). There was lots of God talk between them--that God brought them together and etc. which he can't seem to see for what it was even now.


He did write a NC letter this evening (his wording and choice to do that after reading some articles here) and I mailed it.

I don't know if he can do this but I do believe he intends to follow through. I can't really track him to see if he does. We are donating the second cell phone he used to communicate with her. He's going to call me when he leaves for work and arrives. I hope he'll call and contact me throughout the day but we're both in heavy withdrawal at this point so I don't know how it will play out.

Big question: How do I manage to do plan A? I don't know how I try to meet his big emotional needs (sex, admiration, affection--in that order)? I mean I know why...I just feel like I would be rewarding him for destroying me.

Also, my big need is for conversation and it absolutely crushes me that he spent hours talking to her daily when I was told he just didn't have time to talk to me, that he shared intimate things I did talk with him about with her the very first moment he could, he shared anything I did to meet his needs or when I didn't. Everything that went on in this marriage he ran to tell her. I just feel so betrayed. He's still the person I was turning to in my life to share the most raw things and it turns out he was then sharing those things with her. I think I've got to go vomit.

Sandra, first things first. Call the OW's husband and inform him of the affair. That has to be the first step. I would also let her close family members know of her affair if you can find them on facebook.

The OW's husband needs to know so he can protect himself and his children from your husband and his wife.

You would be doing the OWH a huge favor by letting him know about those "big things." She sounds very dangerous and destructive and he very much needs to know what he is dealing with.

You are not rewarding him. You are meeting his emotional needs. He will not come around if you don't meet his needs.

Betrayal is an ugly thing. It cuts deep to the core. I remember existing on 2 hours of sleep each night and a handful of almonds each day. This went on for about 6 months. I remember thinking to myself "who knew I didn't need sleep or food."

I also felt an anger more intense than any emotion I have ever felt before.

You are not alone. Vent all you want here.

Of course she is. She is also afraid that she will not be able to carry on the affair once the secrecy is blown.

My wife's former OM said the exact same thing. He was afraid I was going to wreck his home life, professional reputation, etc. What these idiots fail to realize is that THEY already wrecked their lives. The truth of the A will come out sooner or later whether it's by you or someone else.

When I spoke to the OM's wife for 2 hours, I told her everything that I knew on my end--how the OM said his wife wouldn't cook for him, didn't take the kids to sports practice, only liked to shop, was going to divorce him anyway..... Do you know how good it made me feel to tell his wife this? She DESERVED to know what her husband thought of her. Knowing what I knew, this victimized woman deserved to know how ugly her husband was. This woman was shocked that her husband described her as a witch, when she was clearly a good person.

You should feel really, really good to expose the OW to her husband. Do not allow him to remain a victim.

And it's ludicrous to think the the BS would ever be responsible for the damage that has already been done. And if either make threats to you, then let them know you will be happy to file a restraining order against them. And you can let them know that this will only escalate the ugly truth to the public, their jobs, and their family.

YOU WILL NOT ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE A VICTIM TWICE!

Sandra2 - I exposed very widely on the OM side, because I didn't know which email address would hit home. I'm not saying it's been easy since then, it has NOT. It was a very difficult decision for me personally, but it also shook things up. If nothing else, it was going to change the dynamic of what happens next. Now, I've gotten a lot of unverifyable fogbabble from my WW - like - she was going to come back, but now she's not. The A was over when I exposed - it was not - she was driving to his house less than a week earlier. She wanted to continue to live this double life and I refused to be a party to it.

Get your ducks in a row and expose as widely as you can - then prepare for the hell you're going to face afterwards. You can do it!!!

Andy, you did the right thing. I KNOW it's right. Any person who uses the "until-you-exposed,-this-would-have-worked-but-now-it's-not" line is still lost in the fog, and frankly is pure horsesh*t.

Until the A is broken, the BS doesn't stand a chance. To wait and hope the A dies is a recipe for disaster.

Thanks Wiser! I'm just to close to it right now - about 2 weeks out from Exposure - the fog is thick with her and the anger is running deep on her part.

Thank you all.

Does it matter that he sent a NC letter and intends to follow through? I really believe he intends to follow through.

He left the cell phone he had used for her on the shelf this morning before he left for work. He sent me an email when he arrived at work, emailed me again saying he would be calling at lunch, called me on his lunch (said he loved me for whatever that is worth (nothing to me at this point)), called me when he has a break in the afternoon and told me he was leaving at 5 exactly and that he will email me right before he leaves as well. He said he would call me several times on the drive home but I don't think that's a great idea (cell phone and driving) even though I know he was doing that with her. I have all his email passwords and he said I'm welcome to check them at any moment. He told me I can check his phone to make sure all his calls are to me.

He actually never denied anything--he told me he knew I knew and he was glad I knew before I said a word to him as I hadn't intended to reveal until I figured out what to do. He's been honest about all that happened to me, my parents, his parents, and his friends.

He (in front of me) deleted all the emails he had saved between them, shredded her letters, and let me listen and then erased the saved messages on his phone).

I don't know. I really think he intends to end it permanently. Whether he can follow through I don't know but I do believe he means it right now. He did tell me at lunch that he was feeling depressed and down and finding it hard to concentrate. He said he wasn't tempted to contact her (I asked) just that he felt really down.

I'm an idiot if I were to send her a letter asking her to honor never contacting him for the sake of our children? Her messages and such make me think she does care a bit about them. I don't know.

No you're not!! Are we talking about the OW here? If we are then you should know she cares nothing about your children, otherwise the A wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Look out for yourself and your marriage at this time. You don't need to worry about what the OW is thinking, feeling, planning, eating,going, [censored],puking...anything...unless of course it impacts your marriage.

At this point, you can't drop your guard because H says they're "through." Right at this point, the withdrawal period will start (for most.) AP's don't turn off the A like a light switch.

Good intentions are worthless. Actions over time are the only thing that will prove intent. What your H did was a good start. But if he is like most, he will have incredible urges to contact the OW to make sure she is "OK." Your H having a lifeline to the OW after the A is "over" should be expected

You need to monitor his actions very closely. Mood swings, unaccounted-for time, guarding of phones, passwords on computer/phones, etc. are all signs that the A is still ongoing. If I were you, I would have a VAR in his car to monitor him and give you some peace that he is honoring your M again.

And get one thing straight: the OW is not interested in the welfare of your kids! Throwing the God story in there about the kids is another fantasy aspect of their "soulmate" relationship. If this OW had any brains at all, she would know that the worst possible thing for your kids is for this OW to destroy your M and replace a great mother for a POS skank-ho.

I would commend you if you told the ho-cake to stay far, far away from your kids, unless she wants you to make her life a living hell!

My FWH did exactly the same things that your has done. I also believed that he truly intended to follow through ... to this day I believe that he intended to follow through. What I didn't realize was the power of the fog. That the A was an addiction.

I didn't expose to OWH because I didn't want to ruin OW family like she had ruined mine. Big mistake. This left the door open for OW to continue to contact my FWH. No one was watching HER. OWH was clueless ... he didn't know that he should be watching her.

OW started calling my FWH and hitting *67 so that the phone number would be blocked. It took me a while to figure out that the unavailable numbers on the cell phone bill were her. FWH said they were banks which blocked their numbers for security reasons.

Given that your husband's OW thinks that GOD meant for them to be together, I think that chances are very good that she will try to keep it alive and take it deeper underground.

Like you, I also believed that OW cared about my children. Our children played together!

Although my FWH was remorseful and wanted to break away, he just couldn't do it and caved in when OW kept up contact. You know since FWH was in love and all (puke).

You need to FIGHT for your family. Whatever it takes. Tell OWH. You need OWH to be watching her like a hawk.

Oak tree: the OM used the *67 trick on me when he knew I was on to him. My FWW's cell phone records were full of those "unavailable" numbers.

Sandra2: LISTEN to oaktree! A's are all brewed from the same recipe, and the story plays out similarly across different people in different places in different times.

You must fight for your M! Exposure to the OW's H could turn out to be the single most important thing you do. You are not destroying another family by exposure! The family has already been destroyed by the OW's A. Don't prolong the cancer that exists in the other family by being a co-conspirator with the OW. You know the truth. Tell the OW's H.

E-X-P-O-S-E.

Almost EVERY WS uses that line when exposed. It is TEXTBOOK. It is the rule, rather than the exception. But a WS wants to reconcile, wild horses will not stop them, much less residual resentment over exposure.

Hi Sandra, did you read our posts about exposure? The affair MUST BE exposed to the OW's husband. He has to know what your husband has done to him so he can protect himself and his children from him. You can't skip this step, Sandra.


Did you save a copy of the evidence to show to the OW's husband? He has a right to all that. This is information about his life that is being wrongfully and cruelly withheld from him.

Sandra2,

Do not have any contact with the OW. She is a liar. Do not believe anything she says. She is protecting herself.

My FWH OW looked me in the eye several times and put her hands in the air and promised no more contact. She even invited us over for a meeting with her BH to discuss the situation and offered to get a babysitter to protect the kids. She led me to believe that her BH knew everything. She was gaslighting me with that invitation. She knew I wouldn't take her up on it since I had made it clear that I never wanted to lay eyes on her again.

I later discovered that OW H knew nothing. OW H thought I was just upset because my FWH and OW "went out for a coffee." She was beginning to paint me as a crazy jealous wife.

She would then turn around and hit *67 and call my FWH. Business as usual. The whole thing blows my mind ... how she would manipulate things to make herself look kind and caring. And I would fall for it!

Your contact needs to be with OW H. I would have saved myself a lot of grief if I had exposed to OW H from the very beginning.

Do not let your guard down. Believe only what you can personally verify. Waywards cannot be trusted when still in the fog - no matter how committed they appear to be to the M.

Does your WH have a plan for how he will handle contact from her? And she WILL contact him. She is not going to give up this easily. Especially since her BH is clueless.

I am certainly no expert here - but I have seen my story played out endlessly here. Don't make the mistakes that I made. Why have you not exposed to OW H?

Hubby knows of site so I can't be really specific on my thoughts and plans for actions. So I decided to edit. Ugh.

But this is no excuse to not warn her husband. If your neighbor's bookkeeper was embezzling money from him would you not expose because the thief is scared you will "mess up her life?" See how that makes no sense? The bottom line is that the OW's H needs to know what your H and his W have been doing to him behind his back so he can protect himself and his children.

By not telling him you are enabling your H and the OW in the hiding of the affair. Affairs thrive on secrecy so the ONLY thing that benefits from your secrecy is the affair.

It is cruel to withhold this information from your H's other victim, the OWH. Helping them keep this secret makes you an accessory to the crime and the OWH will not appreciate it if you don't warn him.


Your H is much more likely to be killed if you don't tell the OWH and he finds out on his own. And he will find out. But if you don't tell him, you will have no control over WHEN that will be. You will have to live your life wondering WHEN that will be. And the more time that passes, the more furious he will be because that will be compounding the crime.

Does he have any record of violence? See, MOST OW are liars who portray their husbands as "abusive" in order to a) pander undeserved pity and b) manipulate people like you into covering up their crimes. I would call the police station and get his record. Find out if this story is true.

Think about that for a minute. The skank knows him best, right? If she is NOT AFRAID of him, and she knows him best, then why would you - who don't know him - be more afraid than her? If she were afraid, then obviously she wouldn't cheat. So, if she is not afraid, then why should you be?


That is no excuse to enable an affair. You just become an enabler and an accessory to the crime. Your "fear" does not supercede his right to know what your H and his wife have done to him.

Melody, I deleted those replies you quoted because I know my husband knows of this site and I'm trying to keep my thinking on this area close. I don't want any prep--you know?

I do appreciate your thoughts though.

Sandra2: any betrayed husband is capable of doing this. But, think what will happen when he finds out (and HE WILL FIND OUT) that he was duped by his wife, your husband, and YOU!

You are making a mistake in logic if you think that he may kill your husband if you tell him, but won't kill him if you don't tell him.

This a will not remain a secret for long, and the BH WILL FIND OUT! I would venture to guess that the longer he feels he has been duped by everyone, the more angry he will be!

You are taking a much bigger risk by not telling him. Let me outline how:

1. by not telling him, you have no control WHEN he will find out. finding out on his own increases the chance that he will come after your H

2. by keeping your H's crime a secret, you make it much easier for them to resume the affair. It is much easier to carry on an affair if there is only person watching. With 2 ppl watching the affairees, the chances of a resumption are greatly lessened

3. your husband can't exactly claim to be sincerely remorseful if he doesn't make sure his victim knows what he did to him. That is not recovery

4. protecting your H from the consequences of his crime keeps him foggy and prevents him from learning his lesson.

Here is what Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders says about exposure:

here

In addition, your children should be told all about his affair since it affects their lives too. Giving them false explanations for the source of tension in their home teaches them dishonesty. It is lies and adultery that poison little kids, not the truth.

You didn't bring him to this forum, did you?

Listen to MelodyLane. Her words above are GOLDEN. This BH needs to know, and it would be best if he heard it from you. You can tell him that your H has committed to NC and is recommitting to your M.

What the BH does after that is up to him, and remember that your H had many, many opportunities to consider this possibility.

Is there anyone you can contact at your old job who can do a background check? Surely if he is this unstable he will have some history on his record. Seek out information on this guy and make a wise choice.

Ignoring the situation will not make the threat go away.

Suggestion: if you have made the mistake of bringing your H to this forum, I would get in the car and drive to the OW's house tonight and inform her H of the affair. Do this before your H forewarns that filthy, vile, skank.

Also, have you been checked for STDs? I would do this before you let your H lay a hand on you.

I found out my husband was having the affair by running across an email account. He noticed I had accessed it even though I had covered my tracks I thought. I thought I had also deleted the internet history and covered my tracks to here but he had other ways of tracing stuff and found this site and everywhere I had went too. So he found it; I didn't tell him but he does know.

Sandra, do you know where the OW lives?

It sounds like he has a keylogger on your computer. Why do you think he is watching you ?

No I don't though I know she's in our town. I don't know her BH's name either. I really think it would be better if people deleted my replies to that question if they could! I've known about this for less than three days. I've got stuff I'm not saying here going on too because he knows of the site. So I shouldn't have posted what I did. I need to keep my thoughts on this private I think. It's a balance now between seeking advice and being confidential.

I think the only part of my replies left right now are your original response (page six on my computer) Melody. Thank you all for deleting.

Keylogger...possible but I don't really think so. I know he knows what I'm doing. He's a lot more technologically proficient than I for sure. I may, though, just be not aware of logs computers normally keep--I'm really not computer adept at all. Further, I have no access to our financial records or anything. I've been way too trusting and let him have a lot of freedom. I was foolish. I know that now.

Actually, I'll just ask him how he knew where I went/found this site. I think he'll tell me honestly right now. His intention at this point really is to make this marriage work.

I asked him. He said I erased the internet history but didn't delete the library. I have no idea what the library is but I don't think he has a keylogger, no. I think he just realized I knew because he saw his email had been accessed around midnight and then he went to the "library" and looked where I had visited.

He stayed home from work (he goes in early) and waited for me to get up to tell me he knew I knew. I had been sick that night (to my stomach) so he was also staying home because he knew I was so sick. When he got on he figured out why.

While waiting he looked where I looked. He also read a lot of the articles on infidelity and asked me if I had read them when I was on the site...that's how I knew he knew of the site. I don't know that he's reading here. I just know he could. For some reason I think he did read my initial posts but I can't (in my sleep deprived state) remember exactly why I got that impression.

He told me (when I asked) that he checked "the phone" today hoping he had a message from her saying she got his letter or something. He did voluntarily leave the phone here. He just checked before work for messages I guess. He didn't think she would respond but said he hoped she would (he's being honest I guess) not to start anything but to know she got it. Is that normal--that he's having trouble like that already?

Please make sure you have 24/7 custody of the phone, forever.

Please to go to your doctor and get checked for STDs. I know it sounds awful I only went because people on this forum MADE ME DO IT! They were right. I sobbed through the entire exam. The doctor made me take an Rx for anti-depressants. I had never taken them before and I am 47, have a doctorate and am a regional director in a healthcare company. I was not immune. It saved me. Please go. The letter telling me I was clean was a godsend. I kept it in my nightstand drawer for almost a year.

Please stop worrying about his "normal" and worry about yours!

Hugs!!

I'm ok re: STD check.

I do have custody of the phone. I wonder if I should get rid of it or keep it so I know if she does try to call?

It bothers me he was hoping she might call. I guess I shouldn't be surprised--he loves her--he's feeling depressed--this is 3 days in. But I guess I expected him to do better at least at the start and I would have hoped he would have told me upfront without my asking.

I have another question. I'm in withdrawal--I'm crushed, angry, hurt, etc. Those seem mild words compared to what I feel inside but I know you all know.

Am I supposed to be trying to avoid talking about unpleasant stuff (ie my hurt/what he's doing to avoid falling back/etc.) and trying to make it all pleasant and meet his needs right now--3 days post discovery. I tried to be affectionate tonight. I found out about the phone check. I don't think it left with a positive balance. I don't know what (if anything) I'm supposed to do right now to help him personally.

Hey Sandra2 (and I might as well say hello, too, to Sandra2's husband),

It may just be me, but something doesn't smell right here. To clear the history...

On Firefox/Mozilla, go to Tools--Clear Recent History--check all the boxes and click ok.

On Internet Explorer, go to Tools--Internet Options--hit delete on the Browsing History section--check all the boxes except the top one (preserve favorites website data) and then ok.

It sounds like he read (and is probably reading) what was said about exposing the affair and is trying to say all the right things so that you'll back off. I hope I'm wrong, but this just sounds way too easy.

I know it's been said before, but this OW's husband must be brought into the loop here. Without this, you're really risking your marriage.

You doing this is, of course, your WH and OW's worst nightmare and I suspect they're counting on you not doing that so that their "lurve" can continue to grow under the radar.

Oh, and you hinted that he worked for some government agency. They should know about his affair and how that really doesn't work very well under audit conditions. His professional behavior is completely unethical.

Here's the carrot/stick thread, you should read over it.

I'm sorry that you're here, Sandra2. Please heed the advice of all the others that have posted. Please tell OW's H about his wife. Wouldn't you want to know if you were him and be hurt if someone knew about your husband and didn't tell you?

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2400725&page=1

Hang on to the phone, but I'd change the numbers.

If he's actually agreeing to NC, then his behavior sounds like normal withdrawal. Odds are high that one of them will try to break NC so you've got to be vigilant.

I'm sorry, Sandra2, for the following, but reading what you've said he's doing (calling you, emailing where he is, etc.) just sounds EXACTLY like the kind of stuff I'd do if I was cheating on my wife and trying to make it look like I wasn't.

Where's the best place to hide something? In plain sight.

I really hope I'm wrong and probably wouldn't have even said that had you not mentioned that he had read your posts here. But, you're the best judge as to his sincerity, so please feel free to tell me I'm wrong

To find OWH's name, do a search for her here:

www.intelius.com

and it'll bring up a list of "possible" relatives.

Clearly I've been completely duped for over three months now so I know nothing.

I appreciate your honesty because I'm stuck in the middle of this. I'm not looking from outside experienced eyes. I really think he's committed to NC. Honestly, my husband is a pretty miserably bad outright liar but decent at remaining deceptive if that makes sense. It's just a matter of asking the right questions. I need him to be forthright of course for this to work. But the truth is I never suspected an affair so I didn't ask the right questions about suspicious stuff. I stupidly trusted him. I should say in the past he's been a bad outright liar. I'm having trouble figuring out if this situation (ie his disconnect from me or practice or what) has made him better at it. I think time will tell. But I don't think he's outright lying at this time about any of it--no. He's answered all questions and I believe he's doing it honestly.

I could be wrong of course. I've known him for 17 years, married 15 so I do feel I have a handle on him at least him prior to the last three months.

Is this board mostly for BS's or would he find some help here too to keep his NC agreement? He already knows of the site. He keeps printing out articles. This NC is going to be hard though because he thinks he loves the OW--he thinks he's giving up his soul mate.

You say you have only known about the A for 3 days, how do you know you are "Ok re: STD check".

How did you get into the office that quick? How did they tell you? Mail? Phone?

I didn't mean I'm ok re: testing clean but that I understand the risks and recommendation she made. I don't know all the ramifications right now. All I have to go on for the physical component of their affair is what he told me. He does not think I'm at risk. I plan to get tested anyway--I just didn't want to go into detail about it all. I get it though.

I assume your question is because you think I was trying to brush off the suggestion? I'm not. It was one of my first thoughts/concerns in the whole mess and that's why I replied the way I did. I was trying to say I get and appreciate the advice and am handling that part of this.

No Sandra, you are supposed to working on a plan of recovery. And that doesn't mean pretending like he hasn't just done to you the worst thing a spouse can do to another. It means that you begin work on recovering your marriage. I would start by AFFAIR PROOFING your marriage, ie: getting rid of that phone so your H is not triggered by waiting to hear from that skank, exposing the affair, having your H create a transparent lifestyle that does not allow for another affair.

Here is the plan you should be in:

here

He won't find it nearly so hard as soon as the OW's husband and family find out about him. The OW's H will help your H stay away. This is why you should tell the OW TODAY, Sandra. As you can see, affairs thrive on secrecy, so getting the word out will be helpful to him.

So sorry you are here Sandra. Many of us have been where you are right now.

You need to expose to OWH yesterday! Why have you not done this yet? You CANNOT skip this step. Without it, your chances of recovery are extremely small. Without it, your chances of a FR (False Recovery) are extremely high. That doesn't even take into account the moral obligations to do the right thing. If you continue to ignore this advice I am pretty confident you are going to lose supporters on your thread and less people will post to you.

Dr. Harley explains that there is a "very narrow path" to recovering a marriage from infidelity. This means that you have to follow the plan to the letter. Skipping one step in the process dramatically increases your chances of failure and a lot more hurt and misery.

Do not wait any longer on this. Get it done immediately. It's the only way. It must be done.

No, this board is not only for BS's. There are a lot of FWS's here as well. Your husband, if he is so inclined, can start a thread of his own and people will help him work through the plan of recovery as well. He will get 2x4's for sure so he better have a thick skin, but the advice he will get will be invaluable and more then worth the lumps he will take.

This is pretty normal stuff, Sandra. He's going to say and do some things that may hurt you emotionally while he's going through withdrawal. Try to acknowledge that upfront so it isn't so painful when it actually happens.

Don't get rid of that phone. And don't give your WH access to it. Even seeing it may be a trigger for him. Put it where he can't find it.

This is a critical step, Sandra - you've not exposed to this skank's poor husband yet??

Since we believe that WH knows about this site and may be reading your posts, it might help to just invite him to start his own thread. It is not helping you to worry about what he is reading on yours.

There are many vets that have been in his position and would be able to help him through the withdrawal and see that this OW is really NOT his "soulmate" and that this is NOT love.

Oak

oak, if he comes here and posts it will not be good for their marriage. It it not a good idea for a wayward to come here when his BS is posting.

OK. Just wondering since we believe that he may already be reading Sandra's posts.

He seems to need help with the withdrawal.

Sandra, listen to the vets.

Sandra, please do not buy into the notion that your H has found his soulmate. This is a ridiculous notion. His "soulmate" is the woman he married. The OW is only an illusion of reality, and is a skank. "Soulmates" don't railroad marriages and families. This "soulmate" is a cancer lollipop covered in chocolate.

A great test of how deep the fog is for your husband is whether he indicates the OW is/was a "soulmate," or if she is a nasty, selfish pig.

As we continue to tell you, expose to the OW's H immediately. Your H will be a bit more leery to see this OW if her H is on-guard and watching his W's every move. My FWW's A was over almost instantly when the OM's wife found out. His life wasn't so free anymore when his W was checking his phone, email, and monitored his every move.

You may find out that the OW's H is a nice guy. And he doesn't deserve to be conspired against by you, your H, and the OW.

Ok. I get it. Melody, he can't find support here? What about in the recovery section? It wouldn't help us at all? A big part of me thinks it might help if someone not me and our parents were to tell him he's deluded.

We should get the SAA book tomorrow so I hope that will help. I was thinking he could read that--wrong?

I am not going to lie on this board or pretend I've done something I haven't. I am hearing you all. However, I have not made a decision yet re: exposure. I do have a name now thanks to this thread.

I don't for one second buy into the soul mate. He's absolutely deluded. He can't see this woman for what she is or the truth of the fantasy he thinks was relationship. He is deceived. When I'm posting those things I mean he's having trouble as he sees it that way...not that she really is his soul mate or anything remotely like that.

Sandra, he shouldn't come here until the affair is really busted up. Unless you want him to read what we tell you about putting a GPS on his car and a keylogger on his computer? Coming here while he is foggy will only result in some well timed 2x4's and the loss of this forum as a resource FOR YOU.

We can't help you defend yourself from an affair if he is reading here. Kill the affair FIRST and then bring him here when you are ready for recovery.


Thats nice, but you have to first kill the affair and make sure that all contact is ended. That won't happen if you keep it a secret.


Let us know when you have done this so we can help you move forward. There isn't much we can do if you help keep the secret for the affairees. That is like asking us to help you push a car up the hill with the parking brake on.


There is no such thing as a "soul mate," that is teenager gurl silliness.

Sandra, has he answered all your questions openly and honestly about his affair? Where did they meet, how long has the affair been going on? Where did they meet up? What did they do?

Do you have all the facts about the affair?

Yes, he has answered all questions, told me he initiated and how, told me how much money he was spending, gave me specific details re: where they met throughout and how (and when I asked were you meeting her when you told me x--he's answered honestly). He's told me what they did, what they talked about, and what she shared with him. He let me read the emails, read letters (and then shredded them), listen to all the voice mails (that he then deleted in front of me and erased her number from the phone).

He left (voluntarily) the phone on the shelf when he left for work and it's remained there. He did tell me (when I asked) last night that he checked the phone before work to see if there was a message but he didn't expect there to be a message (there wasn't). I wish he had volunteered that information though instead of waiting for me to ask.

He wrote a clear NC letter (I can copy and paste the text here if wanted) and it was delivered. Whether she read it of course I have no idea. He had told her previously (via phone) no contact and then she asked that he contact her on her birthday and he agreed. She suggested that when he called but they had discussed prior as a "we need to break this off but let's contact on our birthdays sort of thing" and she had told him that she still wanted him to do that because it was important to her and he agreed (this was the morning I discovered it). The no contact letter said he wouldn't be contacting her on her birthday or any other time in any way and he did not want her to contact him on any birthday or at any other time, place, or manner.

He's self (I didn't suggest this) disclosed to people in his life who were very disappointed (some close male friends who were spiritual advisers and had believed he cut it off a month in). I disclosed to all family. He then followed up by talking to each person, apologizes, admitting it, and answering all questions they had. He's talked to my parents and his every night.

I believe my husband intends to never speak to her again. I also think he's in withdrawal and this is going to be hard. I don't know if he can follow through but I know that is his intention.

If you knew my husband in real life it wouldn't seem surprising that he's doing this/intending to follow through this quickly.

My concern is his ability to do continue to do that and whether he will be open and honest if he does have an issue at any point.

I do not think he's hiding anything right now.

I've read the information on tracking and snooping and I can't do those things anyway for the most part. His phone is a pre-pay per minute job so not high tech for spy ware or GPS, I can't do keylogger on a govt computer with tons of security stuff associated, I can't see myself (because of my own issues) having a VAR in his vehicle that I can regularly check and the contact they had wasn't in his vehicle anyway. I know where it occurred and knowing what was happening in his vehicle would only have caught some of the very recent phone calls.

Here is what we are doing: he is calling our answering machine as he leaves the house, emailing as soon as he gets to work (so I have exact times) and the same on the way home. He is calling me at all breaks and lunch, and staying on the phone with me during any errands that might occur after he comes home. I have all his email passwords. This stuff is to try to guard against falling backward.

My point exactly. If he believes ANY of this, then he is still deep in the fog. He will be pulled in her direction every day. He's hooked on a drug. It's extremely hard to resist, ESPECIALLY if the OW wants to chat with him on birthdays. How utterly ridiculous.

Everyone here would agree that if you don't expose to the OW's H, your chance of recovery will be slim to none in the long run. You need the support of the OW's H to guard against the A.

You may know your husband better than us here, but we know more about the behavior of waywards. We know what your husband is likely to do before he does. Don't think for a moment that your H is unique, or that the dynamics of the A are different in your case. Your H is following the same tired old drama that is written from the same script.

Yep, he is deeply deluded still about her and about the "relationship" he thinks it was/they think it was. This is why I don't feel I can be completely open about my reasoning and my hesitations at this point. I'm happy to share them with anyone who could give me thoughts privately but at this point, with my husband in this state and knowing of this site, I don't feel I can write anything on an open forum that might get back to her (as she would never, in his mind, hurt this family so he would tell her anything should he fall and they connect again. He's extremely trusting by nature and trusts this woman completely). I do have reasons for my decisions though that I haven't and can't post on this board.

I understand about your hesitancy to post anything that will get back to OW if (or likely, when) they get in contact with each other.

My wife made it a week after NC before emailing OM to "see how he was doing."

There's another thread here by a betrayed husband--Lostintime is, I think, his screename. I think his wife made it maybe a week before texting her OM. Her parents came to visit and took her back with them today.

Then there's another thread from HarleyDuck where his wife's OM supposedly broke it off with her and she just recently tried to re-friend him on Facebook.

See, this happens over and over and over again. There's only so much you can do--if they want to get in touch, they will. But you've got one big insurance policy if you've got several people watching their behavior.

Your best ally in this is going to be OW's husband. If you're worried that your husband will be too weak to resist OW's charms, get her husband involved so that OW thinks twice about charming your husband. Right now, she has no inclination to not contact your husband and she'll do it. But if she's got her husband watching her butt, she'll think twice as she has then found accountability.

hi there,

I agree with Northwood........get all the help you can.......OW's husband.........fight it from both ends......

I struggled with snooping because it didn't feel right to me. I know that probably sounds stupid given that I had just caught him looking me in the eye and lying for a year.

However, once I started to look at things like bank statements, credit card statements, receipts, phone logs, I did find a few suspicious things. It helped me to discover the false reconciliation right away. It helped me to stop his back slide before it got too far.

It was also instrumental in helping me to regain the trust when I could verify that what he said was true.

Think about getting rid of that pay as you go phone. Think about stopping by his office unannounced or any other things you might be able to do. Being able to verify is very healing.

Okay just read GH31's thread and realize that I worded my last post wrong.

What I meant was that being able to verify FWH whereabouts and actions and knowing that he was being truthful helped me to feel safe again.

Just a bit of advice please if you could:

Spouse is in early withdrawal...seems to be doing better as the week progresses though I don't have my hopes pinned on continued improvement for him. I anticipate ups and downs and know this is very early in the journey on a long road.

He's told me absolutely everything re: the affair for better or worse because I asked him too. It's been no more painful or damaging than reading all the emails initially and I do think it's good there are no secret memories that he's holding with me unaware. He and I have been honest with family and friends as well.

He's talking to me outside of the affair confessions too--trying to share his thoughts and etc. We're spending lots of time together trying to meet needs as much as possible under the circumstances and build good experiences. I've also been honest about my feelings (not yelling, screaming...just calmly telling him how devastated I feel sort of honesty) and those conversations along with his sharing about the details, while I feel necessary in this process, have of course been negative in terms of love bank. But from his perspective and on the face of it we're adding positives too.

Here's the thing...I'm not feeling the least bit of anything positive toward him. Even those positive experiences are not helping me at all. I just feel wounded mostly. Anything intimate at any level (including emotionally), knowing he's "in love" with someone else, feel damaging at some level to me.

Any advice?

It will take quite a bit of time to restore the love in your marriage. There is a very narrow path to recovery. If followed,, you can have a romantic, happy, safe marriage. If not, if there is no plan for recovery, you will have a crippled version of the pre-affair marriage, which means your marriage will be more vulnerable to repeat affairs. I will post Dr Harley's words on this issue.

My biggest concern for your recovery concerns the OW's husband. Keeping him in the dark like this prevents your H from recovering and it also increases the risk of resumption when your H is free to continue contacting the OW. Since her H doesn't know about the affair, he is free to continue to pursue her. No one is watching from that end.

What is being done about informing the OW's husband of the affair? Your husband is dangerous to the OWH and his children, and he should be informed so he can protect himself.

here

Melody, though it would be a huge stretch financially I'm actually trying to work out how we might have some counseling sessions via Harley/Chalmers. My main motivation, actually, is because I feel I can't be completely honest about the details of telling the her H in this situation here. I just can't put it all out on a public forum. I have shared with both close friends whose judgment I trust and both sets of parents about what has been suggested here and, of course, they know the details not shared here as well. So I do have advice from those who know but it might be helpful to have the advice of those who've "been there" or are experts and yet who also know all the details of our particular situation.

This isn't an excuse and I know it probably comes across, given what I know is history on this board and so many people coming through resisting advice, as excuses for not following the advice given here. It really, truly is a little complicated in this situation.

But I am listening, considering, and will (if I can manage financially) be getting their advice on that issue in our particular dynamics as well.

Do I just keep trying to meet needs even though I feel like crap doing it?

I guess what it comes down to for me is I don't feel, no matter how much time we're spending meeting needs, that I can build something with him from my own emotional prospective while he still believes he's leaving his soul mate whom he loves. I guess I'm afraid he will always feel that way about her.

In actuality he has said that he felt the same way about me at first that he has felt about her. I think his hang up is that he feels she's not the same person and maybe she would have been a better long term fit even if those early feelings were the same with both myself and her. It's more a what could have been together with memories of what was that I think is his struggle.

And again, I will tell you his brain is working at about a 4th grade level right now. Any adult who claims his affair partner is his "soulmate" is seriously lost and confused. Going on "vacation" with the opposite sex and having responsibility-free moments with sex and communication is certainly going to be a chemical rush.

The mistake is when the person having the affair believes this chemical-induced fantasy is real, and believes that the AP is a "soulmate." This is the thinking of a grade school boy hitting puberty, not a logical, rational grown man.

And of course you are not going to feel love while he is high on the drug addiction of the A. He has not come to his senses, and he won't until he recovers from his addiction and returns to reality.

Reality and affairs are mutually exclusive-- you can have one or the other. You can't have both.

The 'soul mate' reference always gets to me. They ALL think they've found their 'soul mate'.

I understand how hurt this makes you feel, Sandra, but please don't dwell on this. You're pretty early into recovery. Just keep going for now. Don't second guess your feelings or his right now. You've got a bit of a road ahead of you.

Fears of "what if" can paralyze you and keep you from executing your best MB plans.

Can you self correct away from "what if" ?

The best way I've found to deal with the "what if" mental detours is to ANSWER the question.

If you do your very best MB plans, and WH still feels "that way" about OW, then you can always separate/divorce and end the marriage.
You will always have that option.

Meanwhile .... deal with doing the best MB plans to the best of your capacity.

Surviving infidelity is tough enough.
Try not to put additional "what if" problems in front of you.

If there is contact (ran into person at store and instead of leaving talked to "end it well" which he recognizes was a mistake on his part) after the NC letter, what should happen?

If there is an "Accidental" contact you LEAVE IMMEDIATELY!!

Since they talked I would tell him to write another NC letter and send it out again.

found out the day after you so i know you are feeling very axnious. found the site 3 days after, found it very helpful to chat with people that are more skilled than i am/was. listen to them they have alot of helpful information. sorry you are here also. get up, take a shower, kiss your kids, put on your favorite shirt- thats a good way to be ready for your new challenge

married 16ys. fw. no kids.

Ok. So he's committed and we're trying to rebuild with MB's. We've got EP's in place. There are a few areas (his work email particularly) that I nor he can think of a way to make it impossible for him to fall essentially but everything else is solid and he's on board with it all.

We're trying to work on EN's and time. I think I'm doing the best I can and pretty well at his. He's trying to meet my conversation need. He works long days (10 hours plus 1 hour each way commute) but we talk on lunch, commute, etc. so that time isn't completely wasted. We're spending the time here too week-ends and what little evening there is on work nights with special needs kids and all. So the time is in place actually.

Here is my issue. I think my top need is actually family commitment and he's not meeting that in ways that meet me (ie he makes money and helps a ton with stuff around the house I can't do myself for health reasons but those aren't meeting this need for me). In fact, I've got major issues with his discipline techniques and spiritual training (lack of given his own convictions in that area) of the kids. It's always been an issue for me and what I've told him over and over would help me feel closer and more positive toward him.

Every time I mention this (even now..post his affair when I"m meeting his EN's despite nothing positive for me as well as the years prior) I get a lot of resentment about how much he does (work/home) and how that should count. When I explain what I am talking about for FC he tells me that he'll just stop doing anything else around here then. Sort of like saying "then I'll stop working if that's not what meets your FC need otherwise my work should be enough". Well, that's not an option to stop of course but no it's not adding huge credits in my love balance.

Then out comes the resentment about how much time house maintenance and work takes and he just doesn't have time for anything else. He has time of course for his own needs (SF for example) to be met and he somehow found time to pour into a relationship with OW. I'm told I don't get it that he's already overwhelmed and I expect too much. He's angry to boot and resentful. This has been true since the kids were born actually.

What it boils down to for him: It's challenging (parenting) and so he's not sure he can do that.

To make it worse my 2nd is honesty and openness and that's clearly not his strength. He can meet conversation but it's doing nothing for me under the circumstances. Affection means he becomes pushy for SF.

I don't know how to do this.

Did this actually happen?

How long did they talk?
Was the conversation 100% inside the store?

I would be very suspicious this was not an accident.
Are you?



Sorry, I don't know if OW has a husband.
If she has a husband or a live in boyfriend, you should contact that person ASAP and inform him of the "accidental" meeting.

Sandra, I would put all this on the back burner for now until you fall back in love with each other learn how to negotiate. Your need of "FC" is somewhat important, but it is minor compared to what is really lacking in your marriage right now. Before you resolve that issue, I would focus on falling in love again and then the next step would be to learn to use the POJA. It sounds like he has resentments about certain things and so do you. That is stuff that can be resolved when you become more skilled at using the POJA.

The main focus now should be falling in love again. In order to do that, you will need to spend 20-25 hours per week meeting the top 4 INTIMATE EMOTIONAL NEEDS of affection, sexual fulfillment, conversation and recreational companionship. The time should be scheduled and should be when you are ALONE with no children, no friends, no TV, no distractions. That should be your first step toward recovery.

This program does not work without this step. Undivided attention is crucial to the recovery of your marriage.

Then, once you are on the way to restoring love in your marriage, you can LEARN how to negotiate these tough issues, practicing with the smaller issues first.

Another important item is the OW's husband. Has he been informed of what your H has done to him?