My previous thread was locked.
Just trying to get thoughts out and if anyone has anything to share.
I have been following all my EP's. I removed anyone that was a threat from my phonebook and facebook. Every weekend, I let him know of my plans in written form unless he happens to ask me before I send it to him. If he asks any questions like where and who I've been with, times etc, I give him all the details. I usually tell him about my day/night before he asks. But sometimes he wants more details so I tell him. I've only been going out with my girlfriends or having them over when husband is out.
I have been keeping the house cleaner and helping with his schoolwork. Giving more attention to the cat as it was listed in his family needs way back when.
I've also tried to word my thoughts better towards him. The other day he got mad at me and he told me that I think I can do or say whatever I want but he is careful how he words things to not upset me. (obviously lovebusted there...I thought he was mad at me but he wasn't and I kept pushing the topic so then he actually got mad....my fault)
Other than that we've been spending 5-6 nights together. Good conversations, doing things together, SF. He still has nights out but he tells me about them as well. Nothing I can change in terms of that at the moment. Just lucky that he is still around and shows some signs of care and hasn't filed.

I haven't read your other thread but I take it you are the WW?

Both of you need to stop going out without the other, especially if you're early into recovery.

As a WW, you have no business having a FB page. Another alternative is for you to share a FB page.

I see lots of IB (independent behaviors) in this one short post. The road to recovery is very specific!


Here

P.S. I've got to get to work, but please continue to post and seek help. You're still very "foggy" (read more to figure out what this means). Good luck!

Not much a recovery here unfortunately, he still wants a divorce next year and I am trying to do what I can to show him that I worthy of being his wife. However, any advice is greatly appreciated as I am trying to show him I can be the wife he wants and will not shoot him in the heart again.

On the bright side, at least I think I've learned some things about myself, marriage and discovered MB (not the way I would have wanted to do it but trying to look at the positive). If my BH allows me the chance I can try to be the best that I can possibly can.

The nights out are something I cannot change on his end. He wants a night out:S, bringing it up just ends up being a LB because he gets angry that I am trying to control him and this relationship. I have stopped my nights out for the most part as he refused to put any EP's in place and even comment on the EP's. But said if he did he would want me to stop going out (due to a comment from a friend which I passed on). So I have been inviting my gf's over to my house when he is out as much as possible but sometimes we do go out and get food and such.

Any decisions I have been making I have tried to POJA it with him if possible. Other decisions where he will not take part in the decision process, I try my best to consider his feelings and not be the cause of his unhappiness (but like I said the other day I upset him and it was my fault for not listening).

I've also spoken to Harley once and won't be able to afford another session until after our vacation back home. We live overseas right now. So we have no real family or friend support.

I have the SAA and His Needs/Her Needs. I have read all of the site stuff. Unfortunately, implementing some things are difficult (Well as a couple ...cause he won't acknowledge us in such a way...not in words).

I just feel stuck sometimes but I don't want to/and have no right to pressure/make my husband conform to MB practices when he doesn't want to. Although, because of what I have done I have realized he had/has considered my feelings more than I did pre and post affair (obviously as I had the affair and broke him and still don't listen to him 100% but he still listens to me fully). I am trying to work on my listening skills, and attention skills (not sure how I made it through my jobs and school, maybe if I put the same focus I have to those things). I have just told him about the site and summarized the basic concepts when he was willing to listen to them in the winter.]

Oh and for eliminating the conditions, I don't spend one on one time with males. I don't have conversations about my marriage with men, no lunch, dinners, drinks, text msg, etc. BH can look at my FB, email, or phone at any time he wants. I also don't drink shots of liquor anymore. I tell him all the details of any time apart we have.

For the being stuck part, sometimes we sit so close together I feel like I should snuggle up to him and cuddle but I know he's never been a cuddler so I don't...makes me feel stuck and crappy (crappy because I ruined the marriage). But on the other hand I do have the power to rebuild things as much as he is willing to let me in.

I wanted to update. Things have been going better than expected. I think he still wants a divorce but our relationship is changing. We had a discussion last week. He has changed from freeloader to renter, which is better than nothing. Crossing my fingers that we'll both be in buyer mode in the future.

I think the biggest thing was the trickle truth he got over a few weeks and three times of him asking me he wanted to know everything. We did agree the first time he asked me he was unclear as he had bombarded me a lot of questions and that it was confusing. But he still counts it as three strikes your out.
As well, I recently read Hopeful_person's old post, so as she said until he remarries, it's not over. I'm not even divorced yet, papers not filed, we still share a bed, etc. So every day at a time.

In addition, I sent an email to two of his siblings to apologize for my behavior in the past when my husband and I moved in with them. I was quite unpleasant and difficult to live with because things were not going my way. (We moved from our home country to another country). So I am taking steps to take responsibility for the things I have done in all areas of my life. (side note: I do get along with all his siblings despite my selfish and poor behavior to a couple of them in the past).

So Plan A is still going on and here's to hoping to a good outcome:)

hey WW26 - you still sound very optimistic & that's great!

Funny you mentioned hopeful_person's thread - I spent some time yesterday (at work - shhh!!!) reading her thread as well as a few others (Jen_Brown and Lisa in London) that were in similar situations (FWW wanting reconciliation). H_P's thread made me tear up several times. She was amazingly strong and perseverant. I'd love to hear how things are going for her and her H now. I hope that both of us have a happy ending like hers as well!

Keep strong - I've been thinking about you!

Thank you WPG. I too, hope that we both get some sort of happily ever after.

Those old posts gave me some hope and made me sad. It made me stronger in my resolve to continue plan A for the next year and for as long as I am given a chance.

I have been reading your posts as well. I am sorry to hear that your husband has not been receptive. But continue what you are doing, you never know what will happen:) Take care of yourself, daughters and home. Have a good weekend!

WW26,

Time and patience are the key words. Give yourself and your H time and have patience with him and with yourself. He may well change his mind as you have and continue to change your perspective on things and how you react to life.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you JL.

I have a few questions. The other night I brought up where things were going as he was talking about future plans. I asked him a couple of questions before he just ignored me and refused to answer them or acknowledge I was even talking to him. Should I not bring up the topic then?

Oh and these were the questions:
What are your plans with regards to this marriage?
Do you feel there has been any change?
Would you answer my questions in the future?

I told him I would appreciate an answer of any sort as I did not feel great about being ignored or at least acknowledge verbally that I was talking to him. That I wasn't going to push him to answer these questions today but wanted to know that he would respond when I talked to him. And that maybe we could talk about it another time. I talked to him calmly like I normally do when we just chat.
He just got angry and left the room. I followed him where he had an angry outburst, told me to leave him alone and pressed me with my back into the wall (never did that pre-affair). In the end, things settled down. He calmed down but I was crying because I was upset over the outburst and at myself. The worst part is he blamed me for it and said that I should have left him alone. Although he's most likely right.

I am still trying my best to plan A. But when he has an angry outbursts I am sure that withdraws from both our LB. As well, maybe I should have dropped the topic. But I did not like being ignored. I probably deserve a 2x4 right now... Any advice?

I figured stick to improving me, being happy, taking care of myself, my pet and the home. Staying calm and patience. But I've been feeling down and low on energy since the AO.

WW,

Let's look at those questions for a moment shall we. You asked You are pushing him here and it would appear he does not really want to answer. My guess is that he is uncertain. Part of him wants to leave and part wants to stay. He doesn't know if he can forgive you or face his failings. He like most BS's feel that their spouse having an affair is direct testimony that they, the BS are failures. Such a sense of failure is hard to face, and as is making the decisions about divorce. Your question could easily come across as "do it or get off of the pot." Ultimatums will be met with anger and hostility, that is why we tell BS and WS alike to avoid them. This question felt a bit like that. What do you really want to know? Do you have some decisions to make soon that depend on his answers. The apprise him of your upcoming decisions and the information you need from him.
Again, you are fishing for compliments and he isn't read for that based on his reactions. What do you really want to know with this question.
This sounds like just a bitchy question, asked out of anger. Whether it was or not, it even sounds like it to me, and frankly I am not mad at you, or disappointed in you and certainly not hurt by you.

YOu do know you made a huge mistake by following him and trying to push this further. Right? Don't do that. Stop for a moment and ask youself, how do I handle things so that they are done GRACEFULLY? When you can figure out how to be graceful, then do it that way.

HOpe this helps.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks JL for the insight. I have started journaling so I can reflect on things.

I never looked at things from that perspective like I was giving an ultimatum and such (not what I was trying to get across to him). I guess I was hoping for answers I knew I wouldn't get.

Going to try and stay rational the best I can and take a few moments before I do anything in situations.

WW26, I went back and read most of your old thread and all of this one.

I am very concerned for you. Here's what I've gleaned from my reading. If I'm mistaken on anything please let me know.

You dated/lived with your husband for 4 years and have been married for 3. You are currently living in a country that is not your home country teaching English as a second language and your BH works part-time in some capacity at a school there. You are the primary breadwinner. Your BH was a trouble-maker in school and dropped out before completing high school. You know of at least once instance where he was caught dealing drugs, but as far as you know he is not currently involved in any criminal activity. He is working on an online degree.

Two winters ago he told you that you should have slept with your neighbor and later told you that he wanted a "get out of marriage free card."

Several months ago your husband suggested that the two of you should have an "open" marriage because you have a higher sex drive then he does. Shortly thereafter you had a one-night stand/week-long affair (I couldn't figure out how long it lasted) with OM who was at the time a mutual friend.

Husband asked if you were having an affair and you told him the truth. Your husband was devastated and told you so. You immediately cut off all contact with OM.

In the intervening months your BH has insisted on getting lots of "alone time" that he usually spends in the company of other people. Sometimes that alone time has been once a week in the company of one or more men. At others times it has been as often as 3 times a week with both other men and other women.

Your BH keeps saying that he's probably going to divorce you and he calls you his ex-wife or soon to be ex-wife in front of other people.

Your BH has asked you to do physical harm to the OM, but you refused. Your BH has told you of a plan to do violence against the OM but has said that he is unable due to a problem in getting "supplies." You have found a piece of paper where your BH has a written plan to harm the OM including a plan to gain access to the OM's home.

Honey, there are thousands of all over this mess. This guy ENCOURAGED you to have an affair. That usually means that he is having his own affair. You have seen written proof that he is planning a criminal act. He has committed crimes in the past.

If I were in your shoes, I'd run as far and as fast as I could to get away from this man. And I'd be forever grateful that there are no children involved.

If you decide to divorce him, you need to make your plans very carefully and go to a very very dark Plan B. He will try to harm you too when he figures out that his meal ticket is going to cut him off.

Hi Kirby,

Yes you have the facts straight. But people do change and he is no longer a trouble maker for the most part. I had an affair that I am not proud of and he has done things in the past that were not right. But people can choose to change to have a better life. That is what is keeping me going in terms of my own improvements and sticking to Plan A the best I can for the next 12 months or more.

In addition, it is not I that wants to divorce him, he is the one who requested this January so there is no fear of harm coming to me. He is the one asking for it while I am the one wanting to reconcile and make this work. In fact, he wants the divorce next spring when my contract is up in this foreign country.

He is not having an affair to my knowledge or anyone else's. In addition, we have certain agreements while we are living together and still married on paper. He spends a lot of time with me and at home 5-6 nights a week.

Despite his past and the whole mess in which I created. I do love him. We have had good and bad times together. I am at this point trying to do my best to show my commitment and that I will be a buyer to this marriage and hope that he can overcome his personal issues and the affair. If he doesn't, there isn't much I can do. As well, I don't think he is doing anything that would hurt me at this point in time.

He is just a very closed off person and will not discuss his thoughts and emotions with anyone. I am hoping I can reach out to him.

And I'm hoping that your mind will clear enough to realize that it's not a good idea to stay with a man who is planning a criminal act.

I have verified he is not having an affair.

Right now I am just doing what I can. I am trying to take care of myself, work on self improvements, saving money and planning for the future. I will probably have 1-2 more sessions with Harley to discuss things.

Rationally, I realize that he has problems that I cannot fix. In addition, to the downs in our relationships since it began (We of course had good times as well). I am not blaming him for what I did but after reading the Freeloader, Renter and Buyer thread, I realized he has always been a renter and I was the same. That is not what I want as when things got tough before the affair, he contemplated giving up and not dealing with things.

So in the meantime, I hope that he will become a buyer and come out of his dark place (As well as working on improving myself in the long run and gaining valuable knowledge from this and MB). I will not settle for less in recovering the marriage as much as I don't want to let him go. But if things don't change by next year, the papers will be filed and signed.

I am being as patient as possible. If he doesn't change his stance and such, there is no hope for the marriage. I can attempt to give some life to the marriage, but I can't hold it up on my own (nor do I want to).

So since I've last posted, things have been going okay. We haven't been doing as much recreational stuff or having conversations, falling way short of the 15 hours lately. Although we've both been quite sick and recovering from physical injuries from separate accidents we've had. Any conversations we do have is pleasant and there has been no fighting.

I have been reading a new book called Bonds That Make Us Free. It has been a real eye opener (well what I have read so far). I see that through our relationship, that I had created problems in order to prove my distorted reality. I am learning a lot about my past behavior and I am trying to change the person that I am inside and out. Working at it one day at a time:)

I also have been trying not to read too much into things. I am excited as we are taking a trip back home to see family together. So we'll see how that goes. It won't be much UA but it is a trip we're both looking forward to and he's willing to spend time with me and other people together.

In addition, thinking back to all the things that have happened. It did not matter that BH said it was okay. I betrayed him, my marriage vows and myself by having sex with someone outside of the marriage. Another thing is, even if BH did not say anything. With my poor boundaries I setting myself up for trouble (for a while I was using the excuse he gave me permission, but who would want to be married to someone who thought it was okay for their spouse to have sex outside of the marriage and I had poor boundaries and communication with my husband). Reading the boards and my experience, it's easy for someone to fill your LB before you realize it has stepped over the friend line.
I just cannot believe it took a mess to make me realize what a marriage should be, how to protect a marriage, my spouse and myself.

**edit** From what I read up here, you might be interested in this thread.

God bless you, Happyheart

*edit

So it is 8 months post D-day. We went on a vacation for a few weeks to visit friends and family. Got to spend plenty of time together.
In the past 4 months I have been working hard on personal recovery. I read a book on self-deception which helped quite a bit. It is allowing me to do Plan A without less of the taker side coming out. I started the Love Dare as well.
But I am finding it a bit hard to cope at this moment over what I did, the destruction it has left and what I may/already have lost.
It has been hard as when we went to visit his family, which I exposed myself to early on after D-day. They are very supportive of us and want to see us make it work. They treat me like a sister.
Right now BH has said he may give the online program a try but not the coaching. So this week I think we may sign up for it.

I have a list of EP's that he has and that I have been following.

UA time consists of doing jigsaw puzzles, logic puzzles, talking about random topics, daily stuff, watching shows and discussing them, playing and cuddling the pet, short scooter rides, watching movies, eating together, showering together, SF.

We talked and he does care but not enough to put in a whole lot of effort. He does not really want a divorce but believes it is not fair if he is not willing to put in all his effort and energy into recovery. So we'll see how the online program works out if we sign up for it.

hey WW26 - good to hear from you and good to hear some positives things going on. I've not done the online program but I think there are many on the boards who have and can give great FB on it. I bought the HNHN home study course hoping to do that on our own, but we never did. I think the online program is good to keep couples focused on the course and the assignments, and give some accountability, so that may be helpful to give a little encouragement to your BH, and maybe as he sees your enthusiastic participation he'll gradually become more encouraged!


I wish I had some helpful advice on how to deal with that. It's something I struggle with every single day, but my sitch is a lot different from yours. And truthfully, even if your M is recovered, there is much you have lost...but I still have faith in MB and believe that if your M is recovered, you can have a M that surpasses all that you had together in the past!

At this point, since your H is still with you and still willing, focus on him. If you are doing the Love Dare, that will help you with that - even though I found a lot of what the Love Dare is all about is changing you and your attitude towards loving your spouse, it keeps you more focused on the here and now rather than the past. Do a stellar job of meeting his needs and - here's the biggie - let go of your expectations. I tried, but I could never quite let go of mine, and that was a huge obstacle in our failed R.

I think - and this is only my opinion, not scientific fact - that maybe when R is a success and both spouses are meeting each other's needs, maybe we begin to think less and less about what we, the FWS, did in the past, and more about what we can DO for the future. I don't know...I'm not there yet, and for me, somehow I have to get there on my own...but I think if you can be successful at letting go of your expectations, if you can continue to be understanding and patient when your needs are not met, that gradually you and your BH will be able to get there together.

Hi WPG,

Thanks for your post.

Tonight I will broach the subject and hopefully he will be willing to give it a go. If so, I am going to go ahead tonight and order it. This course is expensive but I am going to cut back on my spending to pay for it.

I do not know if he is willing but I guess I am lucky in the sense he is still around me most days and we hang out together most of the time minus 1 or 2 nights that he decides to go out.

I am focusing on him and trying to meet his needs and be affectionate towards him without making him uncomfortable. Right now I am still in love with him but not the other way around so I am trying to make deposits the best I can. Like he said he still cares and does not want to get hurt even more but just does not feel like trying much (I gave him a reason to feel this way). Not really a natural instinct to give it your best to a relationship/person that hurt you deeply.

I hope your situation gets better one way or another. Keeping you in my thoughts as well.

WW, it worries me that he still goes out on his own. Is he still going to bars w/male and female company? It is IB on his part and a LB for you. PLUS it is creating circumstances where an RA could occur. I don't know what to advise as you are in a situation where you, the WS, want R and the BS is not committed. Sounds familiar...

Anyway, what I mean is that I struggled with the same things. My H didn't go out, but he engaged in IB, mostly financial sorts of things - purchases that weren't POJA'ed, etc. A lot of that is solely on me, b/c I felt like I had no right to speak up and say, "No, I am not enthusiastic about..." because of what I did to him. I thought that maybe if I was submissive and went along with anything he wanted to do, that he'd love me again.

Well, that obviously didn't work! It drove me crazy and built resentment. I was playing the martyr and that's the wrong mindset - a renter's mindset.

When I was coaching w/JC, she walked me through some ways to try and introduce the MB concepts to my H. I had Dr. H's intro DVD, which came with the HNHN course, and I left it for him with a letter from me explaining that I'd found a plan to restore love to our M and here was that plan. I put it in a little popcorn bucket with a bag of microwave popcorn and some candy. It may not work - I don't know if my H ever even watched it - but if you haven't done a full-on intro to MB concepts it may help...

Again, I failed to encourage my H to participate. In the end, the damage I did was too great. But just b/c I failed doesn't mean the stuff doesn't work!

Hopefully some others can weigh in on addressing the issue of your H going out w/out you.

There is nothing to weigh in on. If you are actively working on recovering your marriage from disaster, you DO NOT GO OUT for RC OF ANY KIND without your spouse.

Yes It sounds as if the only one trying to make a M out of this mess is YOU. Your H is obviously not on board with affair proofing you M and POJA.
I think it comes a time when compensation is being offered by a WW that they may have to also quit being a doormat. It sounds as if he is justifying his action because of yours. Nobody will win if he continues this independent behavior and he is quite likely to justify an A himself.

He did stop his IB for a bit. But then went back to it. Basically, he said he does not have to take any action in terms of affair proofing his end as he was not the one who cheated so he does not have to change.

I have actually introduced some of the concepts to him before. POJA,time, care, protection, etc. So he is aware of them and this site. He just is not motivated to read the stuff, before he told me to just give him a summary by telling him. Not trying to defend him, but he is taking classes that he is on a tight schedule and even then he barely reads it and puts in much effort unless I push him and get him started by setting out plans and deadlines when he should have his assignments done and when he should sign up for exams.

Tonight I am signing up for the online program for the both of us. The good thing is that it does come with DVD's and CD's and such for us to start out with which does not take much effort. As well, hopefully with an accountability coach and the cost of the program it will motivate him to do some work. On one hand it did perk his interest when I brought it up and the fact he had access to Dr. Harley (I intially brought up the course packages that did not include the online stuff which he thought was a bad idea but when I brought up Harley he seemed a little more interested), but at the same time he is reluctant as he seems to worry as he says we have different martial goasl (me: recovery, him: divorce).

So we shall see how things go. I am working on my personal recovery and trying to decide what my goals in life are. What I want in terms of myself as an individual, in a marriage, in a family and where I want to be in terms of physical locations.

So signed up for the online program. Thought this was the next best thing as there was refusal to speak to Steve Harley. If the course goes well, maybe in time we will speak to Steve to help direct us on recovery as we are not even on the proper path at the moment or even in recovery (and if we even make it to that point).

I did watch the infidelity video that was recently posted in the video section. I think every one should watch the video whether they have dealt with it or not. I wish I had seen it sooner. I was the person who thought I was not vulnerable to it and my husband was the opposite. No excuses though for what I did. I cried near the beginning as it really hit me how much hurt I created (and that the hurt I am experiencing from my husband's detachment is nothing compared to what I did). The damage and hurt I inflicted on the one person I was supposed to love and cherish. I cannot put into words the thoughts and emotions that went through me as I watched the video. But it made me feel worse than scum.

Although my BH is mostly withdrawn. He does do stuff for me on a daily basis like picking me up/dropping me off at work on our scooter even when it is pouring rain out and he gets soaked. Shares what is going on in his life. After all that I did, at least he is still around for now and interacting with me pleasantly. We still share a bed and talk. But the physical affection has disappeared.

So not too much new here to report. We got our material for the online course, going to start them together hopefully this weekend. He is reluctant at doing the course but he figured it could be helpful if he chooses to remarry in the future.

Yesterday something happened that made me upset (I know, I should not be affected by it). He told me while waiting for me he met a man and they chatted. Well the man called and he said to him yeah I met my friend (referred to me). Now he refrains from telling people he is even married until he feels like telling the whole story. The fact that it upset me is my fault, I obviously have not let go of all expectations from his side.

That made me upset so when we went to bed I could not sleep, tossed and turned for an hour. So I got up and spent 4 hours staying up (too much was going through my mind) and plus we had discussed it before. Well he waited until I got back to bed to have sex. Everytime he got up from bed he would chat and check to see what I was doing.

I do not understand how the second I get upset and withdrawn he wants to get close. But not the other way around. I got up to clear my head, read and to let him sleep (he does not like it if I chat to clear my head ...lovebuster so I avoided it). And I got up to focus on myself, get my head on straight and focus as this distracted me...did not want to fall off the path of personal recovery. Only I can take care of my myself and my happiness.

I just have to remain focused on my personal recovery, eating well, working out, readings, focus on what I want in my life in terms of career and where I want to be living, etc. My goal is still martial recovery but I know I can live without him, I just want him still to be a part of my life.

Hey, WW26 - thanks for your post on my thread! I read your posts and think the same thing, we're dealing with some very similar issues. And it puts us in a pretty unusual position. Seems like most of the people who come here to post are BS's trying to end their WS's A and save their M...there are lots of BS's in various stages of either trying to kill an A or marital or personal recovery, but very few FWS's stick around, the majority of those who are here are in recovered M's.

So, we're kind of in a position of causing our own mess, and nobody, absolutely nobody, is going to fault our BH's for walking out the door.

It is difficult some days to stay focused on personal recovery. I wish I knew what the answer was to make it easier to focus on personal recovery, instead of being dragged into this shame spiral of how I am not doing enough for my H. I keep trying, like thanking him for and complimenting the things he does around the house, cooking dinner on days he picks up the kids - I was never the cook when we were together, it was always him (he's a MUCH better cook than I am, trust me!!!). So I'm trying to meet needs for DS and AD...occasionally he'll bite at little things that are kind of RC. More often I'll try to ask him to lunch and he changes it to he wants to meet for sex. I still am incredibly confused by the SF, so that's an entirely other issue. But if you're like me, it is still hard to let the little things roll off your back...like when you don't get thanked for dinner (I was raised where you always told momma you enjoyed supper!!!). I have to constantly be on my toes to not react to the little zingers and remain open to opportunities to meet needs.

Keep us posted how the online course goes - maybe it will resonate with your H - I hope the course goes well for the two of you!

I suggest telling him you like to know if he likes dinner. I've learned through experience that men don't think about things like that unless it's brought to them directly.

Hi WW26,

The guy who suggests open marriage and wants himself out of the marriage now and then has definitely something up his sleeve. Have you snooped? The guy who even suggests an open marriage surely doesn't have the marital or your interests in mind.

There are people who cannot get over their spouses affairs and that is a tragedy. But I do not think that his devastation is real or that your affair has opened his eyes since he has told and shown you that he has no reason to change his behaviour whatsoever. The amount of his IBs and LBs are not the proof of some sort of crystallization. He seems as dishonest and untrustworthy as he has always been.

You had an affair and you need to do everything to get things right again. No doubt about that. Even though he suggested it, you were the one who acted upon that. But this doesn't excuse you from the right to know what is going on on the other side. For the marital recovery you are talking about you have the responsibility to find out.

And just a word of caution from a FWW whose "H did it too" - whatever you find, it will not make your poor choices less significant or your affair "just a fling".

It is kind of complicated. He was okay with it as long as he never found out. But he did of course, nothing stays a secret forever.

What I did will not be lessened even if I find out he has done the same thing. I made many mistakes that led up to where I am. I take full responsibility for that. I chose to have an affair, my choice, my actions.

My focus is personal recovery and martial recovery. I may not get it all, but at least I can have an effect on my personal recovery and have full control. Like WPG said, the healing would be better if BH took part but I cannot make him nor do I have a say in it as I gave him the pass to walk away. If he walks away it is my own fault, no one, not OM not BH not my childhood.

WW26 and WPG... is there an easy way to find your original threads and read your stories? I seem to connect a bit with your situations, as a WW myself. Trying to get myself personally and maritally recovered. Your posts are helpful.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...in=162055&Number=2445227#Post2445227

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/u...at&Number=2423067&gonew=1#UNREAD

Thank you!

I would do some snooping. Then you have verified whether he has something going on or not.

From your previous thread and this - it doesn't sound that he is honest and transparent in his plans and actions.

1. I definitely view the OP as scum and have a low opinion of the OP as do many of the other foreigners in my city. But this of course translates to well I am just as bad as that, if not worse. How do you stop this destructive self-talk? I realize what I have done is the worst possible thing I could do to someone I love and it would not matter if the OP was viewed positively or negatively. But I realize this type of thinking is also not healthy for me in any way.
2. I do take full responsibility for what happened. However, as a WS do you inform new people that you are/were a WS or just leave in the past? How to approach it when meeting new people?

WW26, I know where you're at. If you've read my thread, you know I have been struggling with a very negative self-image and the concept of "self-forgiveness". It's easy for folks outside the situation to try to tell you how you should feel - for example, my IC tells me that I have to forgive myself (my mother tells me the same thing, and I could have saved a $45 copay, ha!)...but I'm stuck. I believe I will get through this - I know I'll be OK and I will survive - but it's not just a matter of forgiving myself for, oh, I don't know, breaking a piece of wedding china, or even forgiving myself for forgetting to buy a lottery ticket on the day my numbers were winners...I deliberately injured the man that I love. I caused my children to lose their father's presence in their lives every day. It wasn't an accident.

I don't know what the solution is, and I wish I did. I do know that I work to try and keep myself "busy," whether that's concentrating on someone else here on the boards, doing something with work, doing a project around the house, whatever. And I actively try to live my life better than I was living before. I don't always succeed...I still get irritated with the kids and snap at them, for example. I still slack off at work. But I'm making more efforts to get out of my "funk," to try and get involved in other things, to try and find things to enjoy again...all the while trying to extend those olive branches to my H and working on not expecting anything in return.

I am not saying it is easy. I can slip into a shame spiral faster than the speed of light. What you have to realize is that I have - you have - a choice to stop that spiral.

And you're not "worse" than the OP. You were - and the operative word here is WERE - the same as the OP. You both were weak. You both had poor boundaries. You both were sinners. lol you need to read the last few pages of my thread 'cause I am dealing with the same stuff ...the thing is, who are you NOW? I know, in my heart, that I am not the woman I was two years ago. I'm still learning not to let my actions from then define how I feel about myself now. It's definitely a work in progress...



I figure for the most part, it is not anybody's business who or what I am, or was. There are some people who know my whole story from my lips - other than family (mine and H's) I can count those friends on one hand. Others do know H and I are separated but nothing more than that. I'm wearing my ring again now and I present myself as a married woman. Those who do know I am separated know I want reconciliation. If I ever found myself in a situation with a female friend who was struggling with infidelity and she did not know my story, then I'd consider opening up to her. In the future, if my M is never repaired, if I ever end up in another relationship, then I'll need to be O&H about my past - and if that's a dealbreaker, then so be it. But I don't feel the need to broadcast the news to all and sundry...it's not that I am ashamed, it's that I am maintaining boundaries...and it goes back to something that stuck with me from the "Love and Respect" class H and I took, about women getting together and bashing their H's...and I made a committment to myself not to do that anymore.

Again, I am not perfect, but I am so much better at recognizing wrong behavior on my part now. At this point, really, all we can do as FWW's with BH's who are no committed to R is clean up our side of the street, as your sig line says...we can be responsible for ourselves and someday, someday, that is gonna pay off.

Hey WPG,

Thank you for your post.

I was just having a hard time as BH met the foreigners group who arrived like 3-6 months after D-day. They all know about it and most of them will not associate with me or OP. So that did not do much for my self-image. So trying not to let it affect me and be happy with the friends that I do have.

You don't "have" to do anything.
You have the choice to earn your own forgiveness.
That's how I choose to look at it.
Polish yourself everyday, and eventually the dirt and rust will be a memory.

I had some things in mind to say about repentance, and forgiveness, but I see Pep said it better with less words.

Please keep working on it, and have faith that it WILL work.

SS

Things seem to be finally looking up. Divorce is still in the back of our minds. However, we are spending more time together and planning a vacation for a week or so later this year. This is after he rejected the idea of going anywhere together except for the visit back home earlier. ( I had brought up the idea of taking a vacation together since early this year and he rejected it and told me no). I am trying to not get myself worked up over it but it seems like things are looking better but you never know. He even suggested going to a movie as well. Unfortunately, the movie we wanted to see will not be released here:( We actually did something outside of the home together this month too. I'm just doing my best to take care of myself mentally and physically. Here's to hoping things continue in the right direction.

ww26.

don't push be patient for now. he needs to see that side of you, how about renting a few movies, that is what my husband and I did at first, something to do together but not to forced.
walks together. shopping together, simple things..........
the vacation has always been an issue for us as well, my WH never wanted to go either at least with me, we just came back from a week in the Dominican and he said it was the best vacation he had ever been on........
takes a little time to work yourselves back............
in the meantime enjoy every minute, don't get ahead of yourself........
jessi

Thanks Jessi. Just taking it slow and one day at a time. Right now trying to plan this vacation and working on the accountability program. We'll see what happens:)

So as of right now I am still working on trying to save the marriage. Working on personal recovery.

But I have realized with all the things that I know that there is a high likelihood that we will not make it past next spring. There is nothing I can do about it, I do recall a poster that said we can choose what we do but not the consequences.

I have stopped being needy with him and stopped pushing for things that I cannot have.

I know what I want from a marriage, how I should treat a marriage and my spouse. I will not settle for less or for a marriage to just limp along.

In addition, I am more focused on the future. I am making goals that with or without him I want to acheive. I currently prepping to write the LSAT, if I do well I am going to try for law school in the future. Although spending many years back at school is not appealing, the pay off will be good.

So looking forward to a brighter future no matter what happens:)

And, *numero uno* for any FORMER WW (or WH) should be, the Policy of Radical Honesty.
If you divorce, any future potential spouse must be aware of your past. Before engagement. Not that you need to wear a Scarlet Letter, but you do need to make your potential future spouse aware of any past weaknesses.
It's the right thing to do.


Best of luck on your goals.
Having lofty goals is a good thing!

I am still hoping to work things out with my BH. But some marriages can't be saved. I will find out if mine is one of them in the not too far distant future.

I intend on using the MB principles I have learned and have been applying it to this marriage. If it fails, I will use what I have learned for the next. I would definitely tell future partners about it as it is a part of me that I will never forget and have learned from. I do not intend to make the same mistakes twice whether it be in this relationship or future ones.

When I look at your age, I remember myself at that tender age of 26.

If I had married the man I was dating for many, many years, it is very likely I might have become a WW at 26 myself.

This bothers me ....


What do you mean?

BH has set a deadline for us. I still love him but not the other way around. So if things do not change he wants the divorce next year. It may seem far away but time passes quickly ....:S It is not that I brought up divorce, he did and wants it. He sees no way around it. I can only change myself, I can help myself recover/heal personally. But I cannot do that for him and he will not allow it. So if things stay the way they are now, he wants out and maybe I will at that time. One spouse can help get things started but in the end a marriage takes two people.

Yeah.

I told FWW I wanted a divorce, too. She just flat out told me NO.


... hard headed women... mumble, mumble, mumble...

I'm still trying really hard to save this marriage. But I cannot force him to stay after the time is up. He intends on leaving at that point. I have also let go of my expectations because it causes disappointments on my side. I have no expectations and I do what I feel is necessary without expecting anything in return. I try not to get my hopes up because when he brings up divorce, it just gets me down. And he has every right to walk away. But right now while he is around, I will do whatever I can in my power to save this marriage. That's all I can do and improve/change myself for the better.

2 things.

Deadline:

I set a deadline of 6 months. Initially.
Then, another 6 months.
Next thing you know .... it's been 15 years!

Love:

He has love for you.
You're just gonna have to trust me on this. Don't argue with me on this point.
You will lose !!
But, his relaxing into that love (ie: TRUST that love will not hurt him more) is not happening for him at this point. There is no safety in love for him.

Wait this out.
Be patient.


How are you doing when it comes to quieting your expectations?
Quieting your Taker?

PS
I just read your last post about expectations.

Thanks for the encouraging words. I am doing my best to quiet my taker and just do what I think is best and not expect anything in return. I can only change things within my control. Another thing that struck me was WPG's thread. I want my BH but I do not need him. I can live without him and make a life for myself. I just would like him to be a part of the joys and changes in my life. To share a life with him where we are both happy.

I guess the deadline thing was true. He immediately wanted out at the beginning and did not want to talk to him or be near me. Then after a few days settled, he decided to give it till the end of the month then he decided to give it an entire month (we were actually separated for 6 weeks). Now it's until next year but this time he does not view us as a couple anymore (and has not since he requested a D). But you never know. And again, when I had sex with another man I also gave him the right to walk away.

Some of the things he said makes me think that things may not work out, he thinks he has a better chance of getting struck by lightning then falling back in love with me. So yeah hearing stuff like that sucks. But not as much as what I put him through and what he is still going through.

I do understand the love thing. What I did makes it so it is not safe for him nor a motivation to love those who hurt you. I have not given him a good reason to stay with my unfaithfulness.

If he change his mind, it would be the greatest gift I could ever receive that I do not deserve after my actions. If he does not, he has every right to walk and I do not blame him and no one else would either.

Also, consider doing nice things for your Taker.
Self care sorts of things. You know what I mean.
Self love.
It's OK.
You do "deserve" self love.
Do not argue this point either.
You will lose.





This is exactly why I bother to post to you.
Why I have a lot of hope for you.
Your attitude is correct.
I admire this attitude in both the WS and the BS.
This is an attitude that can be so difficult to understand, much less adopt.
Good job you.




Offer to stand in the yard with him during a storm, so you can be struck by lightening together.
He's unwilling to risk falling back in love with you because he is afraid.
So, he makes grandiose statements like this to push you away.
It's a test.
He still has residual love.
Keep up the deposits.
Little by little.
Once, we had a neighbor who put all her purse change into a big container.
Every day the amount grew by incremental amounts.
Eventually, she had saved enough for a deposit on a new car.
This is you.
Making love bank deposits that seem like they will do nothing to increase your worth.
Do not be fooled.
Every small deposit adds up.

Your marriage is up in the air.
Your integrity is yours to grab.


Keep posting.
You are needed here on MB and you are an important person too.

I am not sure how to help my BH.

He has been in a down mood the past two-three weeks.

He has not worked on his classes for weeks while I've been studying for my LSAT and doing readings for him so we can discuss it and so I know what he is talking about in his papers. He barely even leaves the house except for work. He has not been going with friends even. He just goes for walks or sits on a bench for the night. He lays in bed for hours instead of getting up and doing stuff. I do not know how to help him. He does not want me to hug him or cuddle him.

He actually tried talking to me about motivation and such, but that just made him more down. I guess I used to be his motivation, but not anymore. He just does not want to give anything a try because he thinks that all good things come to an end (summary of what he said). Then he decided to talk about divorce, and how our relationship was never meant to be.

I just do not know how to help him? Any suggestions? (he doesn't want to be touched except during sex of course and talking about it made it worse:S He is going through a tough time and I do not know what I can/should do to help without being seeming pushy.

Any help is greatly appreciated, I do not like seeing him like this.

Oh and thanks Pepperband for your encouraging and helpful posts and everyone else who has ever posted to me.

Forgive me if I've missed it, but has your BH gone for a checkup with his physician? It sounds like he could be depressed. Thinking back on my own timeline, about 9-10 months after DDay #2 was when my H really started withdrawing, and it gradually got worse and worse due in large part to my poor handling of recovery.

When he goes for walks, go with him. Sit on the bench with him. Feed the birds, watch fireflies, count the stars. Keep asking: "Is there anything I can do for you today?" Keep on making those deposits, even when it seems like nothing is getting through.

Also, he could be dealing with other issues, like troubles at work or with his classes (especially since he's not working on them), that are bleeding over and feeding an attitude of defeat.

No and they do not treat depression here very well if that is the problem.

It might be that it is approaching the 1 year mark. He remembers that date but he still has trouble remembering our wedding anniversary and my birthday.

No problems at work or his classes. He just does not feel like doing them. He is not sure why he is even getting a degree anymore, it was a goal we had together.

He does not want me coming with him when he goes, he wants to be alone.

But I just texted him if he wanted to come and watch a movie so he is on his way.

WW26

I have kept up with your thread for sometime now. I know the emotional turmoil that your BH is going through. I did give my WW a second chance and she never committed and we were in a false recovery and now in a middle of a D. I put so much effort into my marriage, but for what---That is something I think a lot of BS worry about---a re-offender!!!

BS are very cautious, skeptical, weary, etc! And for very obvious reasons. I just wanted my ww to show remorse and to be humble about her mistake-and she never was!!! You are on the right track!

Listen to Pep and those that have been in your shoes.

We also counseled with Steve for about 5 months and as a BH he helped me a ton--for my ww she never bought into mb primarily because she still had contact with the POSOM--something to chew on! If she would've adhered to the mb principles I know our marriage could have been saved.

Is he on anti-depressants? They did help me a great deal!

I wish you and your marriage the best

Thanks InnerStrength for your post. I do recall reading Strugglingaz thread. I am sorry that things have not worked out the way you wanted it to.

I will bring up maybe going to a doctor in the big city to see if he wants to get checked out and maybe be put on AD's. We had previously discussed it before but at the same time he hates going to the doctor.

Just taking one day at a time and doing what I can from my side. Taking care of myself mentally and physically. I keep telling myself, what more do I have to lose, I have lost my husband once so the worst that can happen is he may never return and the best case he will want to work things out. Never know till you try:)

Trying to be supportive and empathic. But sometimes I just freeze up and do not know what to say to him, not because I am scared to say something but I blank out:S

He just seemed so sad and disappointed. He thinks every time things go well in his life they turn sour. He is sad that he thinks that our relationship was not meant to be from the beginning. We used to fight a fair bit at the beginning (not an excuse but BH was my first bf and everything).

"Resentment can often ruin a otherwise stellar recovery" DrH quote

After my FWW 1st EA.......I withdrew from my wife soon (1 year) after the hyper-bonding and shock was over. Once I became "comfortable" I started dwelling mainly because she never set up EP's and EN's not being met soon followed for both. POJA was non existent. So our conflicts never ended or was even negotiated correctly.

I also became Depressed. I didn't see it then but I do now. I withdrew from EVERYTHING in my life. Including my Kids. We had so much controversy over the kids issues I withdrew from even ball practice with my DS. I didnt do anything I use to enjoy at all. Slept way to much, never had any energy. He definitely sounds like Depression is there. He needs some of the less invasive Anti's as a maintenance med for a bit. Take a bullet here and tell him because of your actions you think you have made him sick. Set him up an Appt with a MD for 30 days out offering to cancel if he doesnt agree to go. Maybe print some online Depression tests and ask him to please think about taking them to test his levels himself.

Sounds like compensation on your part has been made and is being maintained. The last part of his puzzle to RECOVER should only be TIME. And to beat the ugly RESENTMENT monster. But if depression is now an issue its a true medical condition that must be contended with or the limping will continue in your recovery.

So I tried setting an appointment for him with the doctor next month. He told me no thank you, what could the doctor do. I told him the doctor could figure out if there was a serious problem or not, and prescribe him AD's which would help. But again he declined, so I have not brought it up since. He now knows that offer still stands to help him. I told him I would pay for the doctor visit and medication.

He does seem to be a slightly better mood today. I think because he got his XBOX up and running (playing shooter games). So I've been watching and chatting with him most of the day.

Wow, talking to BH made me feel so bad. Since d-day I have forgotten all the happy future plans we had talked about pre-affair. We used to talk about adopting a child, retiring in Greece and getting a sailboat. I totally forgot about all those plans until we were talking about the Greek crisis and he was talking about why he would like to retire there. It made me feel pretty terrible that I destroyed all our dreams and that I forgot about it as well. All I can do is attempt to clean up and pick up the pieces the best I can.

Just need to keep working on cleaning up my side of the fence.

I know he has voiced that he thinks things/people never change, he is a pessimist (what he said) and thinks that people cannot change. So working hard on showing him that is not true:) Whether that changes anything or not does not matter...just want to show him that change is possible.

My only question is how honest and open to be. Do I tell him absolutely everything or things out of the ordinary.

So far I tell him if anything besides the normal happens when I am not with him, if I leave my school even for a minute or see anything out of the norm (like OM). I send him an email about my thoughts and feelings once a week. I let him know by text message who I am with, where I am and when I leave.

So not too much is going on.

UA time is all over the place based on when he feels like spending UA time with me. I do not push for it as I know he does not like it. We spend a lot of timer at home together but not much of it for UA. But we do have a couple of trips coming up in the next two months where it is just us. So we'll see how that goes.

Still working on personal recoveries. I think I am have been doing a good job letting go of expectations most of the time. I have also been working through the home study courses on my own and getting him to join if he feels like participating and doing the workbook. Been doing okay not committing love busters and being as open and honest as I can without making him uncomfortable.

It's scary trying to plan a future without him but it must be done and I do need to be prepared if that day comes.

Eeek it is 10 months until my contract ends. It seems like nothing has changed since BH requested that we divorce when I finish my contract.
UA time has been good the past week. He is quite enthusiastic about hanging out and doing recreational activities, conversing and such. But it does not seem to have changed his decision or feelings.
I know that he is saddened by the idea we may not work out.
It is confusing because his actions say one thing and his words another.
He just does not care anymore and I cannot change that. I can continue implementing my EP's and being RH and trying to POJA decisions. But that is all I can do. If that is not enough, that is all I can do.

I just wanted to write an update.
I have decided that the best thing for me to do is to let this relationship go, well there is not much of one and hasn't since he asked for a D. It is not healthy for me. I still love him with all my heart and wish things were different. I still wish I did not have sex with the OM and maybe just maybe he would not be the way he is now. But I cannot undo the past, I cannot go back in time, I can only live with the present and the future.
His 5 year plan is pull off some great crime of the century. No he has not made actual plans but is thinking about it for his 5 year plan. That may be a cool idea in the movies or fun to watch in the movies. But not in real life. I cannot be around someone who does not have ambitions to succeed the right way. I cannot raise children with him.
Another thing, all the UA time in the world and good times we spend together has not changed a single thing.
And I am not in contact with OM. Nor am I being wayward by having an affair with other men and have not broken any EP's.
I just realized that unless he is willing to change and go down the right paths in life I should not be there. It is not healthy for me and I do not want to get dragged down a path that is dangerous and wrong.
My only hopes for him is to find love again and hopefully that will be enough to stop him from all the immoral activities he is thinking about.
I am sad and feel guilty for all of this. But I think the best choice for me is to go through with the divorce when he wants it next year.

If that's what you want to do, then why wait?

Sounds like you're still letting him drive your life, when it might be best at this point to take the reins.

You don't get back the years spent in an unfulfilling relationship. Once they are spent, they are gone, never to return.

True MIM. But at the current time the situation works out for the best in terms of money and living situation. When my contract is up, we are moving back to our home country where we will file.

(((WW26)))

I wonder how much of him talking about this "5 year plan" of his is to push you away. Perhaps he knows how much this kind of talk hurts you, and maybe you're getting to him.

HHH gave me the analogy once of my H having a hard, protective shell. My efforts to meet ENs are like throwing handfuls of rice at that shell. There are some cracks there, and sometimes, if I've thrown enough rice, a few make it through the cracks. At the risk of making a DJ, I'd guess that when he realizes there's a crack there because something made it through, he tries to patch it. I think my H's way of patching is to steadfastly refuse to meet my top EN's of affection, admiration, and conversation. If you are getting through to your H, maybe he's trying to push you away.

I know that's not a solution, that's just me playing armchair psychoanalyst...

I think you and I are much the same, in that we recognize that we can't control someone else, we can't "make" them do anything, and we know that the only person we have any control over is ourself. Hey, I read your posts on my thread! I had a friend tell me that I was just too analytical - which totally makes sense considering the things I enjoy doing at work (I'm a self-confessed statistics geek!). Analytical thinking is not a bad thing - it allows us to look at a situation through various perceptual "lenses" to create a better understanding of a problem and to generate a wide variety of solutions. The problem is that with *this* particular problem we're dealing with - the state of our marriage - is that we're unable to be objective about it. It's too personal, and that causes us to mis-think the limits of our own perceptual lenses.

I'm very good at seeing the logic of the situation - recognizing how my A came about, recognizing the deficiencies present in our pre-A M that I contributed to, and recognizing the effectiveness of the MB plan. But I'm viewing my sitch through my own bias - I am, in effect, blinded by my love for my H. Do we see them as who they are, or do we see them as how we want them to be?

I don't know. How much of the H I saw during our initial R was the "real" H? I believe that the man he was then is who is deep inside that shell of his. I wish I'd been able to reach and nurture that part of him throughout our relationship, instead of becoming bitter, disrespectful, and LB'ing him.

Only you can decide, ultimately, what to do. He has to commit to making you feel safe, just as you have to try to make him feel safe. If you're doing your part as far as EPs and need-meeting, the rest is up to him. You're still under one roof and you still have far more opportunities for UA time and EN meeting than in my sitch - you say your hope is for him to find love again, and that may still be with you. But if not, if he still wants a D next year, you can sit back and feel that you did what you could. At least that's what I'm trying to do. I won't stop my H from obtaining a D if that's what he truly wants, but until then I'll keep doing what I can.

I'm rambling - like I said, I'm great at analyzing stuff but not so great at objectivity - just wanted you to know that I hear you!

ww26,
you should at least separate yourself from anything he might be responsible for, don't let yourself be caught up in anything you don't want to be a part of..
you can't let this destroy who you are, you made a mistake but you can't pay for it the rest of your life,
get a plan for you and just work on yourself so when you come out of this there will be something of you left to move on...........
you can't control him only what you do and think and plan for yourself.....stop feeling guilty.........you are trying to do what is the better thing to do after a mistake and that is all you can do
good luck and I feel for you. i know you are hurting.
jessi

Thanks WPG and Jessi.

I pretty much have resigned myself to the fact I think this is just not good for myself at least unless things change. During the time we have under the same roof, we still still hang out, chat, do things together and I will still continue meeting all his needs to the best of my ability. He meets some of mine so it works based on the situation we are currently in. If by some miracle he falls back in love with me and he does not want to plan anything that would risk his freedom, then I would be more than happy to take the path of recovery.

I know my BH has a wonderful caring side, but that side has slowly disappeared since D-day. I am hoping it comes back but have no expectations.

I just do not know who my H is anymore. The side of him that I disliked or hid from me is just coming out more and more. He has told me before that he tried to be a good person for me. Now he has no reason. I do not like what he is turning to and he knows that. He knows that I do not value things obtained in the wrong manner.

I know he has a sweet, caring side. I would not have married him otherwise. Even if I cannot save the marriage, that is fine. I just cannot stand here and watch him change into someone I do not know. I do not know whether he says these things because it is a LB. So for now, we are together until spring next year. I will continue working on my personal recovery, thinking and working on my life goals and meeting his needs. But next spring if things are the same, and he wants a D and a different lifestyle, I am fine with that. I cannot control him and I do not want to go down the path he is thinking about.

Arrrg. So a few months ago, I got a brand new phone and never blocked OM's number on this phone. I thought whatever why bother it has been 8 months NC. Well today, after 11 months of NC, he suddenly out of the blue decides to message me telling me that a friend was talking about what happened to other people and he wanted to wish me well and hope that BH and I were doing okay. (wanted to vomit)

I felt sick to stomach. I told BH about it as soon as I saw the message. I think it triggered BH but he did not want to talk about much. The little bit that i gathered is that he is still extremely angry and feels like OM has not received his punishment.

Why on earth would he message me after so long? I ignored the text and proceeded to block him. But this kind of set me back on personal recovery and triggered all sorts of emotions and regrets about what I did as well as put BH in a bad place.

Instead if focusing on WHY he called, I want you to focus on FIXING this so it doesn't ever happen again.

Was this a new number? How did OM get it? Why wasn't he blocked?

Not a new number. The same number. He was blocked on the previous phone but not this one as I forgot the password to my old phone which is required to look at the numbers I have blocked. He is blocked now so it is not a problem.

Just a huge setback in personal recovery and the fact it brought up a lot of strong/raw emotions for BH.

Plug the holes and start again, it's a shame that this happened, start thinking it through is there anything else that can happen to set you back if there is fix it today........
Affairs are cruel and have a way of hurting our lives for a long time.
stay on task, kiss your husband and tell him how sorry your mistake not to block him has hurt both of you and assure him the # is blocked and will never take place again and reassure him it had no effect on you..........
that you love him and are committed to him and the two of you, and appreciate the chance..........
jessi

Maybe to have this not happen again, you should CHANGE YOUR NUMBER.

What if OM were to use someone else's phone? If you change the number, you won't need to worry about that happening again. Sorry, but this is an easy fix. It is also something that should have already have happened.

Duh?

All the OM's reptilian brain knows is that he got lucky before.

To any man it's worth the effort to send a text or phone a girl he's interested in. He gets shot down what did he lose?
Not much.

Now an OM will take it a step farther with a married woman that had an affair once, it's easy to jump to conclusions if they did it once they'll do it again. Does not matter if this asumption about you is true. The OM is just justifiying his actions. OM is playing the odds.

Unfortunately many an OM does get lucky with their XOW. That's why there must be NC for life.

Yea I should have gotten a new number when I got the phone a few months ago. Just did not think that he would ever message me again after I blocked him and told a friend to tell him to not contact me again. (this was before I found MB) Luckily this phone is a SIM card phone so I will get a co-worker to come with me to translate what I want this week.
I intend on keeping no contact for life regardless of what happens with BH and I.
We ended up taking off for the weekend and it was nice. But he still wants a divorce. I am just enjoying any time we have together and working on personal recovery as well as keeping with my EP's, trying my best to meet BH's EN and work on LB on my end. It is always the BS choice to walk away and they have every right to do so.

So I recently started snooping after getting access and being advised to a few times.
I looked at an old email account and it's already made me feel ill. He had contacted girls I did not want him to talk to before/after marriage. None of them EA's. But he hid it from me. He even remembered an ex-GF's bday that he did not stop talking for years (an email once a year). There was nothing going on, just a few random emails over the years but nothing suggests that they had talked for a continuous period of time. This is the girl he thought he was going to marry before she dumped him after cheating on him a fair bit. This happened to be the girl he just always brought up in conversations how great she was.
I am scared to look at the other tcurrent accoun. Any ideas/advice?

He was totally on me how he always promoted honesty. But he has been far from it. Not that it excuses any of my actions and choices.
I also found out that a month after dday, he brought a girl back to a hotel but they never ended up having sex but he had the intentions. Some girl he met for a few hours and has not talked to since.
What do i do with all the information?
I do not know if this anything is even worth bothering with....
he has been dishonest. I have not discovered any infidelity but discovered that our relationship has been built on dishonesty.

Well I had been posting on the divorce forum for a bit recently. Basically, things were not improving and getting worse, and I found stbx an apartment. I eventually discovered his odd behaviour was due to OW. I was a bit upset at first and then I was okay after having a week to absorb the new information. (Sept 2010 d-day, Jan 2011 divorced requested by BH, I worked alone to recover and eventually could not do it late summer)

After things settled we starting talking again and being civil. However, this week we were talking about when to get the papers filed (where I am it takes one day as there are no kids).

Now he is blaming me for the failed recovery and that I was on a trial period until next spring to see if I would keep my words and such for financial and domestic obligations (payments, housing, food, cooking,help with his schoolwork, etc) He is also claiming that he was working on things even though he would not read a single book, discuss anything relating to recovery and told me no chance whatsoever. In my personal opinion, and I hope it is not a DJ, or WW like, he was going out constantly, meeting females and males, he would not want to be seen with me in public in this city and told everyone he knew we were getting a divorced or referred to me as a friend.

I am extremely confused and it has set me back in personal recovery as I thought I was moving forward quite well.

How am I supposed to take all of this? Now I feel like a terrible person as I had an affair, and he is the one who is constantly dealing with the consequences of my action. He even blames me for the failing of his relationship with OW as he has trust issues with women....

I am not depressed, I have been surrounding myself with friends in this foreign country. I have been eating, exercising well and focused on goals in life and thinking about all the mistakes I have made in the marriage and how I can prevent them in the future.

WW27,

Ah, come on! Grow up! You KNOW what he is saying is just covering his butt. You know he had an OW and nothing you did justifies that anymore than anything he did justified your A.

You KNOW you did you best to make this work and he refused to help at all. You KNOW he is a liar. You KNOW he is just making excuses.

Given all of this please explain

How you take it is him blame shifting for his affair.

Move on WW27. It is time.

God Bless,

JL

WW27,

Stop it.



Come on now...listen to JL.

Thanks!

Papers are going to be filed early next spring. He will not sign the papers until I help him get another visa to stay here...good thing is that divorce here takes less than a day for it to be final. I cannot file back home as neither of us have lived there for a year straight and neither of us are returning there the next year or two.

I do not see him anymore, we communicate by email or text message for simple things such as rent. I am dropping off his rent money at a friend's place. So contact is minimal and just the way I like it.

I had to tell him to quit it last week though, as he decided to give me 20 questions of who I was with and what was I doing which sounds bad but is no longer any of his business.

I am making new friends and doing lots of sightseeing and what not. I am focused on my life plans and as bad as this sounds too, I know even if he wanted to work on the marriage I would no longer want to after trying for so long and being rejected and blamed for everything. I tried all that I could with MB, EP's, O and H, etc.

Good girl. (I don't post to you, but read all about you like many threads.)

I am proud of you, WW27, as I could be your parent 2x in years.

You go, girlie. You rock! You know, if this doesn't work (keep at it?), you know what you have learned, and you are so young...you're going to be just fine.

Hells bells, don't forget what you've learned here. Ever.

I will remember what I learn here:)

However, stbx thought he could show up on my doorstep seeking SF. I turned him away for many reasons, first of all we are done and over, second of all he was pissed drunk! I do not want he was thinking, I probably do not want to know.

The next day when he was sober I had to tell him to not show up on my doorstep and especially drunk looking for sex. That there was a reason we were keeping minimal contact. He has a girlfriend now who he wants to marry, and wants to have kids with. What on earth are you doing showing up on my doorstep?? (sorry rant) Even with all of this, he will not sign the papers till late winter.

WW27, can't you get the divorce without his signature? I would divorce him ASAP and cut him out of your life. He is a user and an abuser.

And what do you mean you "dropped off rent money?" Are you giving him money??

No I cannot unfortunately. I cannot divorce back home cause I have not lived there for several years and they will not let me file there unless I live there for a year ( I am not returning for 2 years).

The country I am living in takes less than a day for it to be final, in and out just like that. But he has to be present:(

Since we have been married I have been working and supporting us. He was going to sue for ailmony. So I ended up paying for rent here which is $250USD. I figured that got him out of my hair.

WW27, I would stop paying him ANYTHING. Make him take you to court!! He has no money. Are you saying you can't divorce him in this country unless he is there? Why can't you get divorced without him?

I would strongly urge you to go into Plan B. Chop it up to ONLY say: do not contact me PERIOD. Cut this guy out of your life, WW27. Get your divorce and stop giving this user your money.

He has no intention of signing them then either. He is going to drag this out as long as possible so he can continue to USE you. You are his Sugar Momma. I would stop giving him a motivation to use and abuse you. Cut that jerk off!

I really cannot divorce without him. I just went and re-read the information. He has to be present and willing before they grant a divorce. I cannot go alone. Here are the things I have to bring, my passport, his passport, he has to show up and agree, and a translation of our marriage certificate to the official language here. The divorce here seriously costs like $50USD and takes under a day once the judge sees you and asks a few questions. But he has to be present and if he will not go, nothing I can do about it:(

But yes, I really need a kick in the [censored]. I have been told Plan B and I have done fully gone dark because I felt sorry for him for some unknown reason.

I can tell you this, I am not bothered by him and his relationship with gf or anything. I could care less, just pissed me off he thought he could come by SF. I have no love towards him, I do not hate him but I am glad I have started a new life and it is going well.

Well here is the stupid and tricky thing I agreed to along time ago. I would help him get his visa to extend his stay till 2013 which is why he will not sign the papers. He thinks that if he signs the paper I will not help with the visa. However, if he does not sign it late winter, I am reporting him to immigrations...

What can't you report him to immigrations now? It seems like you have all the leverage here yet he controls you.

I would but he would not sign the papers ever. He has dual citizenship in canada and the us. We married in canada. So if he marries ow...he wpuld juat avoid canada
I just wamt the papers...I cannot start dating without them....I know that sounds funny from a fww.

But if he is deported, wouldn't you be able to get a divorce?

Why don't you tell him he goes for the divorce or you have him deported?

If he is deported, he can still re-enter as a tourist. In addition, they will not grant me the divorce without him present. And if he does not return to Canada I cannot get my divorce either.

I tried to tell him I could get him deported, unfortunately I know him well enough if I actually did get him deported then I would not get my papers and be stuck being legally married to him.

(Don't get me wrong, I used to be in love with him, I made a huge, huge, terrible mistake, but I am not going to spend the rest of my life paying for that mistake after I tried to recover the marriage and it ended like this).

Quick update as I have not been around for a while. I am officially divorced. It took 3 minutes, no joke...and $20.

So I am divorced. My friends and I went out to celebrate weeks later. I have started dating but nothing serious as it is just for fun and to see what is out there now that I am single.

I know how to make a marriage work and would like to be married in the future but not now or anytime soon. I am working on my life and getting the career I wanted started. I am also doing a bit of traveling as well:) So life is good, just getting myself together and planning for the future:)

WW27, thanks for the update. I often wondered and worried about you. Divorce was the definition of success in your case. Good for you!

WW27, thank you for the update. I saw your post earlier in the week and didn't get a chance to respond. I am glad you are doing well in your personal recovery, and Mel is right about success in your case. It takes two willing spouses to recover from an A...I've just taken much longer to learn that than you did. Don't be a stranger, 'kay?

OH wow...just wow.
Talked to a friend today, my ex is married again (did it shortly after we separated). He married the OP and she is now three months pregnant. She is younger than me and freshly graduated. What a shocker...I am glad I am not her as I believe he was cheating on her and will continue to do so if the opportunity arises.

I agree he is not good marriage material. Just glad you are out of that mess!

When did they get married? Your siggy says you were only divorced in 2012.

You are well rid of him.

They got married sometime between our divorce and now.

He was cheating on her before they got married as well and he will do so as the opportunity arises as he believes that if she does not know, it cannot hurt her. I cannot believe that someone who was badly hurt in that manner and betrayed is now risking hurting someone in the same way.

What a mess and I am glad I am not a part of it. I made a huge mistake and will never repeat it again. I know what precautions to take when I am married and what to do to make a successful marriage, not only that I will also follow those principles. But at the moment I am getting ready to return to school in the next couple of years:)