Hello everyone,

I'm new here, and I wanted to post on here to get some feedback from alternative sources. I found out about this affair about 2 months ago, so I've had some time to digest things, but here's the long and short of it:

I am due in a week with my second child (I am 29, "DH" is 30). DD is 2.5 and I have been with my husband for 10 years total (married for 6). Never has he ever given me a reason to believe that he was capable of infidelity, but I suppose you don't always know people like you think you do. I began becoming suspicious of his behavior back in November. He was constantly texting and showed a lack of interest in his family- again, something that was not typical of him. He also began dieting and lost about 20 lbs. During this time, his mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer. So I blamed much of his behavior on her health. I essentially gave him a free pass on a lot of the red flags that were there.

Fast forward to the beginning of February. My suspicions were building. Although he always came home after work to be with us, he was continuing to text excessively and act strange. He would never let me get my hands on his phone, and basically slept with it next to his head. One night intuition got the best of me, and I was somehow able to (at 3am) get his phone away from him while he slept. It was at this point that I saw about a dozen flirtatious texts. At that time, he tried to convince me that these were texts between a woman he had "befriended" at work and that they would stop immediately. I immediately contacted the woman (she's only 23), and made her aware that this was completely inappropriate and that all contact was to stop. She sincerely apologized and said it would never continue. I made DH vow that if he stayed he would give me all computer/e-mail/phone/bank account passwords and would not use his cell phone in our home again. He followed through. Unfortunately, this is how the rest of the affair came to light:

Over the next few weeks of February, I, through very tedious search processes, uncovered much more information in his work e-mail account. He had been taking her to lunch almost daily through the months of November and December, met her out socially (at the mall once and once at a bar). And he also later confessed that he went "running" after DD went to bed and she drove to the town where we live to meet him so they could "talk" in a parking lot nearby. He confessed to having kissed her twice, but nothing further. (I've gotten STD tests that have come back clean...not that this means that I believe him fully.) I also uncovered a Christmas list of gifts that he had purchased for her. (2 outfits, some cheap jewelry, and a flower.) After reading through these e-mails, it was clear to me that she was continuing to stroke his ego because he was willing to spend money on her. I later found an e-mail from January that she had sent to him, saying that she was uncomfortable with the situation and that it would be better if they remained friends.

After I found all of this information, I immediately confronted him with it, and kicked him out. I changed the locks and sought out attourneys. I never thought that I'd ever have it in me to want to work things out. After several weeks of separation, I could see that my daughter deeply missed her father. He vowed that this relationship was over before I ever found out about it, that he never told me because he knew I'd leave, and that he would never have it in him to do this again to our family. He began going to counseling and reading relationship books. He met with my parents and his, confessed what he'd done and vowed to never hurt any of us again and that it was the biggest mistake he's ever made. Long story short, I was told in counseling that if I was going to try to make this work for my kids, that I needed to let him prove himself to me.

I let him come back, and he really has been trying. No more cell phone at all in our home, limited computer use (he has to use our iPad in the same room as me), and when he goes somewhere, we have to switch phones so I have access to all of his records (his phone is a company phone, so I can't check his bills.) I still have all of his passwords. He does not even have a key to our home. He continues to go to counseling alone, although I will begin going with him after the baby arrives. He makes an effort to go to church every week now, which he didn't before. He does seem much more committed to our family and even e-mails me while he's at work throughout the day, everyday.

My biggest concern is that the two of them still work in the same office together. BUT it's not a large office (maybe 30-40 employees) and there are several things that put my mind at ease about the situation: 1.) His father (who was traumatized when he found out) also works there. In the same area, and can keep an eye on the level of communication. My father-in-law is also her boss. So she has already said that she fears her job is at risk because of this. 2.) There are several other women in the office who know and who have said that they would contact me immediately if they were to see anything suspicious (apparently it was pretty obvious before that they were communicating and going to lunch.) I have been told recently that the two of them have not been speaking at all recently in the office and have been eating lunch separately.

The last thing I want to be about the situation is naive. I know that I'm going to get feedback in the form of: "Once a cheater, always a cheater." And I do believe that to a degree. But I also believe that people can make mistakes. HUGE mistakes. And that they are capable of learning from them. Of course I am still very emotionally scarred, devastated, and conflicted about the situation. I do feel as though his level of commitment is driving me in the right direction though. I just need some feedback from women who may have gone through something similar. Is there hope for him to change? Am I being too naive about the situation? Is there anything else I can do on my end to ensure that this will not happen again?

Thank you SO much in advance for any advice or anecdotes you can offer me! I sincerely appreciate it!

Jay, I was nodding my head thinking "oh great! Her marriage is in recovery!" until I got to this part and realized you aren't in recovery at all. Your marriage can't recover until all contact ends. In order to recover, your H has to withdraw from the OW and that can't be done if they see each other. Every time they see each other puts you both back to Day 1 of recovery. His feelings for her are triggered every day at work. Pretty soon opportunity will collide with temptation and the affair will be back on.

What you are facing is an on again, off again affair for several years. Read this thread and listen to this radio clip I posted yesterday about what you are facing: here

This will not end until one of them leaves the job and all contact ends. I would make that happen.

DITTO

Ask her FIL if he will terminate her or ask her to leave.

You are going to have a nervous breakdown if they continue working together. It NEVER works out for APs to continue working together.

I would also ask your H if he'd be willing to take a polygraph. Chances are this was physical as well as emotional. The meet up in the car, alone, is very suspect.

First she has to go. But I will play Devils advocate on some of the other questions. He has supplied you transparency and that is good. Sounds like he is trying to meet you ENs. That is also good. But what are you doing?
Affairs are almost always a result of Emotional Needs not being met in the M and your spouses poor boundaries. Has he set Extraordinary Precaution in place for you in writing with his boundaries? Have you evaluated the ENs of both of you to key in on them and both enthusiastically agreed to meet them? Have you both agreed to POJA and PORA? If not then those are the things you need to do to ensure this wont happen again. As soon as ENs go unmet it will happen again, My WW is proof enough.

I agree with all of the above.

You state that your FIL is there to keep an eye on them, but where was he when your H was taking OW to lunch?

He must have been aware of that, no?

The OW needs to leave the workplace, and boundaries need to be put in place now, in order for your M to recover.

Although we've discussed it, there's nothing that we can really say to her to force her out. My best friend is an attourney and is very concerned that if the OW is confronted, that she may come back with a sexual harrassment suit, since she was punished at work and he wasn't.

Also, I know it's best to have no contact; however, I do believe that our relationship would also suffer if I made him leave a job that he loves. He makes very good money, has worked his way up in the company, and we would certainly face financial hardships, not to mention the resentment if I made him leave the job. It's a very difficult situation, and I'm just holding out hope that in time this woman will find something else (in the way of a job) or someone else, since she's so young.

At this point, I've told him that I really don't believe him about the physical aspect of the affair. I already assume the worst. To go through him taking a polygraph, only to have my fears confirmed, would be even more devastating. Even if it was confirmed that the relationship was more physically involved than previously thought, it would probably not change my current path of action right now, so I see it as being unnecessarily painful. I'm trying to live in the present and go forth from here, making the best decisions possible for myself and my children.

Good luck with your recovery then...money is more important than your M??? There are tons of stories around here of how affairs reignite when there is continued contact. It's too bad (for your children's sakes) that you are going to be another one for asinine reasons such as money and the unfounded resentment your H *might* have if he needs to leave his job because HE had an affair.

Leaving his job is an obvious consequence of his poor choices. You are making a grave mistake in shielding him from the consequences.


Yes, it's better to allow your H to know that he can go ahead and lie to you about whatever he wants because, afterall...the truth is just far too painful. You are teaching him a great lesson here, JayME...that you are a doormat and lying to you is acceptable.

What a sad, sad condition you are turning your M into. You could have so much more but you are worried about the wrong things and you are running from the truth.

Jayme, it is up to you to protect yourself and your marriage from this affair. His working at the same place as her is absolutely unacceptable. It is non negotiable. You have WAAY too much to lose to be taking chances like that.

I would tell your H and FIL that one of them [either your WS or the OW] has to go. PERIOD. That is non negotiable. Don't even consider backing down on that, because you won't have a marriage if you do. In my 10 years on this board, I have not seen a single marriage recover where the affairees worked together or lived close by. But I have seen untold #s of resumed affairs and the subsequent divorce. I have also seen many OW end up pregnant. That is a real risk you run here.

A recent affair IS the present...and just because you are refusing to know the truth doesn't un-do the damage.

The truth will HEAL your M, not damage it. Wake up, girl!

Quoted For Truth.


Yes, go over to the Pregnancy board and take a look at THAT nightmare.

Cant we Just Forgive and Forget
and also PORH The Policy of Radical Honesty

I am baffled that his own father would still allow the OW to work under him. so to speak. Seriously!!

Thats ok, as long as you accept that you will not be the beneficiary of that job for long when you are divorced. You are making an informed choice to sacrifice your marriage so he can have a job he loves. That is your right and your prerogative to make that sacrifice.

Yes, you are being naive about the situation.

Yes, there is something else you can do: You can insist on total NC, which means either the OW leaves her job or your H leaves his.

My H's A was on-again, off-again for 10 YEARS because I didn't insist on NC. You have no idea the amount of damage having to endure 10 years of lying and cheating can do to a M. I went through more D-days than a person could count. I eventually lost all love for my H, completely withdrew from my M, had an A of my own, got pregnant by the OM, and am now raising an OC (Other Child) with my H. We've finally established NC with both his OW and my OM, but everyday is a struggle. It's very difficult to recover a M after so much pain and deceit. Is that the sort of future you'd like for yourself and your children? Is a job really worth risking all of that?

I wish I'd known about MB many years ago when my H's A first started. I think things would have turned out a lot differently for me. I consider my life a cautionary tale for others at this point, a definite roadmap of what NOT to do if you want to save your M.

Do you understand Dr Harley's principles? Did you listen to that radio clip that ML posted for you where Dr Harley explains to a WS why living a mile away from his OW will keep him triggered and that's why he was never able to end the A after three years even tho he tried to? I believe the word Dr Harley used was "powerless".

As long as he sees her at work every day, he will be triggered and his w/d clock is turned back to Day 1.

The chances that he will be able to resist sneaking off to see her eventually are nil.

Every day that he is triggered prevents the chance of him being able to fall back in love with you and giving your M a real shot.

I don't think I hear you saying this is Ok with you but rather you think you have found a way around it. It doesn't work that way. It just doesn't.

This statement shows that you don't understand the dynamics of affairs. Your H is powerless to his addiction to the OW. He WANTS to see her everyday even though he wants his family too. It is up to you to demand that he leave so that your M and family have a shot here. He will thank you for this later...

Oh and it is not your fault that he loses a job that he "loves". It is his fault for having a workplace affair.

JayME80

Since this is the alternative source is there a better one that you would be willing to share with us?

Good luck with your WH and OW having any kind of contact and your M working out.

Kinda like putting an open bottle of booze on the kitchen table everyday in front of an alcohlic whos trying to quit drinking... and then leaving for the day.... And then believing to yourself the alcoholic wont drink it....

Whats that word they use to describe that?

nESRE

He did this. Not you. If he truly wants his marriage to survive then he needs to prove it by his actions. The single most important thing he MUST do is establish NC FOR LIFE.

Hon, I say this compassionately, but you are making terrible decisions that will harm you and your children. You are protecting your husband's affair at the expense of your marriage. Your children's security is in jeopardy right now because of the risky path you have taken. You have all but ensured that your marriage never recovers and that the affair will resume. You are jeopardizing your children's security.

Your H is very unprofessional and should lose his job for abusing his authority. He is a walking sexual harassment lawsuit and should be viewed as the loose cannon he is. But he will never change or learn his lesson if this is all swept under the rug. He knows he can do this again and you will protect him.

This is certainly your life and your decision, but you have to be willing to accept the consequences of your bad choices. Protecting his job at the expense of your marriage means you won't be the beneficiary of that job in the future. And you might very well be competing with the OW for child support dollars for your children if she gets impregnated by your husband. You don't think its possible? Go read some posts over on the Pregnancy forum.

Well you are being exactly VERY naive. If that's the last thing you want to be, then please listen up.

Arguing with us isn't going to change our minds about how important NC is or why you are an exception. Some of us have even moved out of state to get away from the AP. It's THAT important.

You may want to consider exposure on her side as well. NUCLEAR STYLE!ALL OF HER family and friends. This also includes at the workplace for the ones that dont know. You may get 2 birds with one stone if she quits out of sheer shame and embarrassment. And you cant be sued for telling the truth about anything!

Ok, after the overwhelming responses from, what I consider to be the utmost reliable sources (people who have suffered through the same), I am starting to see that maybe I am being too naive about the situation. I had initially given him the ultimatum of leaving and he did seek other employment opportunities and even had 3 interviews. But after seeing a therapist, I was told that HE has to change his behavior and that regardless of the position that he's holding, there will always be a woman like this around to stroke his ego if he's willing to be unfaithful. That sort of made sense with me, and I wasn't as insitant on him finding another position. But more and more I'm finding myself not being able to get past the work situation. I'm realizing that it's unfair to me for him to make me go through this day after day, and I also don't feel right in watching his work e-mail like a prison warden. I don't want to live like this indefinitely.

ITA. In addition to demanding he leave the workplace, I would also call up and schedule a polygraph. EAs rapidly escalate to PAs especially when there is opportunity. I would be surprised if this wasn't a PA.

Your H will stay foggy as long as he is hiding things from you and your R will stall out. You can't sweep this under the rug. Get the truth out.

So many people come here and the affair has been thriving while they have been following the advice of their therapist or MC, who unfortunately don't understand the addiction of affairs and don't have experience helping people recover their M after an A. *sigh*

Please find a qualified "therapist" because she doesn't know what she is talking about. Your H is not addicted to any other women but to the OW specifically.

Changing his behavior is HALF of the equation, the other half is to remove himself from the woman he is addicted to.


Watching his actions will BUILD TRUST in your marriage and help you prevent this from happening in the future. Watching him helps you hold him accountable.

Welcome, JayME. I've only gotten partway through the responses on this thread, so you've probably heard this question already: which is more important - your marriage or his job? That's what it comes down to.

Your FIL is in a sticky situation. He's going to have to find very legitimate reasons to let her go, or he'll be risking a lawsuit. But make no mistake: she DOES have to go. Either that, or your WH needs to. They can't work together.

My H had an A with a co-worker. Thankfully, she left on her own. H has told me that he would not have been able to work with her. He couldn't quit the A while she was there.

Also - I don't want to be the bearer of crummy news, but please understand that the chance that they have been alone together and 'just kissed' is pretty unlikely. I suspect this was a physical affair, as in more than just kissing. My H's A was 'just kissing' in the beginning, as well. When he finally came clean he confirmed that it was a sexual affair.

Please listen to MelodyLane, Maritalbliss and the other excellent posters here. Your therapist doesn't know squat about A's. Yes, there will be women in your husband's life forever, but there will be exactly ONE your H is addicted to in the workplace. The bond they have formed is very powerful, and it's only a matter of time and opportunity before your H will find himself in her arms if they continue to work together.

Give yourself a fighting chance by separating these two for life.

And the "just kissing" statement is the first lie about every A. My FWW also claimed they met for sex but then "stopped because it wasn't right." Big lie. She also said they couldn't be having an A because he lived several states away. Big lie.

The OM hopped on a plane and flew a thousand miles at every opportunity to have sex with my W, and they got so deep that they discussed ending both M's so that they could get married to each other.

Take extreme action now. You will thank yourself later.

Well, in case you're not yet sold on their painfully-acquired wisdom, this is the part where a guy who had an affair (me) steps in to tell you that... these people are right about this "no contact" thing.

See, I got myself into an emotional affair. I could see where it was heading, and OW kept pushing, and I got cold feet, and at one point I told her it had to stop. Trouble was, though, that I kept seeing her on a regular basis through church. And I resumed taking her calls. I bought into the myth that people who form deep emotional attachments can "maturely" revert to being "just friends" and "stay friends." I hadn't considered the addictive nature of affair situations, where a person is having a number of important emotional needs met (whether attention/admiration, conversation, or recreational companionship), and the difficulty of withdrawing from such a situation. Long story short, my resolve didn't last 2 weeks. The affair resumed & became physical. My temporary pangs of conscience & desire to do the right thing turned out to be worth diddly. And I almost trashed my marriage completely. Because I stayed in contact with the other woman.

"No contact" is non-negotiable. You can't rebuild the kind of wonderful marriage relationship that it is possible to build (even after an affair) as long as your mind is preyed upon by the uncertainty that's a natural consequence of your H's remaining in touch with his affair-partner.

Well, the therapist had one point right, to the extent that, yes, your husband needs to rebuild his own boundaries in order to prevent recurrence of this affair or prevent other affairs. However, that doesn't mean that you should back down re: the job! (If that was your conclusion, please think this through. If that was your therapist's conclusion, then fire the therapist!) People who've manifested weak boundaries ALSO need to implement what are known as Extraordinary Precautions (read about 'em on this site) to guard against resumption of an affair. The single most important such precaution is that he must end contact with the OW permanently. They're called "extraordinary" precautions for a reason. Not "I'll-adhere-to-them-if-convenient" precautions. He bears an obligation to go to extraordinary lengths to protect your feelings, to reassure you, and to protect HIMSELF against the danger of resuming the affair. Insofar as he is still in daily contact with her, he has yet to even begin the necessary withdrawal phase. Building personal boundaries and adhering to extraordinary precautions aren't mutually exclusive -- they're mutually reinforcing. So you're not only within your rights to insist that he find another job, but you'd be silly NOT to insist, if your goal is to save your marriage.

You may not have to do this indefinitely; but in the early parts of recovery, you'd be a fool NOT to monitor what he's up to. He hasn't taken the most basic, fundamental step that needs to be taken after an affair, which is to cease contact with the affair-partner.

You said earlier that you believe "to a degree" the saying "once a cheater, always a cheater." I'm here to tell you simply, that's a crock. Believing that "to a degree" is like believing in being pregnant "to a degree." You either believe it or you don't. If you believe it, then don't waste any more of your time and sue him for divorce.

I would sooner cut my own eyes out than cheat again.

It's possible for your husband to feel that way, too. But you can't take his word on that; he is going to have to prove it. Going no-contact is Step#1 in proving it. And without no-contact, he'll never be able to prove it in a way that will make you feel completely safe.

P.S. -- Sorry if I skimmed your thread too quickly, but have you read the book "Surviving An Affair", or has anyone advised you to read it? It is a book that my wife & I will both tell you may well have saved our marriage.

Jay - I am so sorry you are in this position. I hope you are taking care of yourself and your precious child. I don't have much to say other than, from my research, affairs are addictions. The chemical reactions going on in your husband's brain are no different than a drug addiction. Seeing her gives him a high.

Your counselor is right in one thing: there will be other women out there at any other job who will be willing to stroke his ego. He needs to have strong boundaries to ensure NO woman is ever this close to him again. He does need to work on that.

However to use the drug analogy - your husband is addicted to alcohol. Yes, it is likely he could become addicted to cocaine or marijuana or heroin - so he will have to protect himself from developing those addictions, but he has to nip the alcohol addiction in the bud first - working in a bar is NOT the way to solve the alcohol problem.

Right now he is an alcoholic going to work every day in a bar. EVERY day. It doesn't matter that you have people keeping an eye on her. SEEING her is enough to get his fix. Sending a work related email is enough. Eventually that fix won't be enough - they'll need more. They'll buy a secret cell phone that he keeps hidden. He'll make a secrete email address. He'll slip away for a work errand. He was caught once, he knows what you are watching, he'll find a way to hide it - because just the seeing each other every day won't be enough - after a while he'll want more.

He may be repentant now. He may be horrified about what he has done. He may begin to actively dislike her - but it won't change the fact that he crossed a boundary with her - one that cannot be uncrossed. Over time the repentance will fade, dimmed by his still present feelings for her.

And over time, you will come to resent him. You will go mad knowing she is there - seeing him every day. You will see him leaving every day to work with her and you will be stabbed in the heart again and again, the jealousy and wondering if somehow they're slipping through the cracks in the armor will drive you mad. You will never be able to move past it because it will be present every day he goes to work. So you will be at home, wondering, thinking about him and her. You will not be able to rebuild your trust. And it will eat away at your soul.

There was another poster here who endured her husband working with their OW for A YEAR. She was in so much pain that when he finally quit that job she was sabotaging their recovery - she couldn't get past the year of pain he put her through. It was torture for her.

Here is her story if you want to read it

You started off strong - you stuck to your guns and fought for your family, but there is more to do.

It is promising that he had 3 other interviews - pursue them. A job is a job - but a broken family is another thing all together.