Marriage Builders
Posted By: FightingADivorce WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 06:46 PM
Just found these forums and this site this morning. Lots of good information on the site so far.

My story:

A year ago I caught my wife emailing back and forth with an old boyfriend from high school. The content of the emails blew my mind....lots of I love you's, I miss you's, etc etc. We of course fought about it and I stupidly believed her when she told me it was over and that she had just gotten carried away with the guy.

Just recently I found out that she never ever cut off contact with him and emails have turned into text messages, which turned into phone calls, which turned into phone sex and "video sex" via skype and facetime.

The OM lives across the state (about 10 hours away) and she SWEARS up and down that they have NEVER had actual physical sex. She goes to school at night, and the thought has crossed my mind multiple times that he could have easily driven here and gotten a hotel for a week or so to carry out there affair to the next level.

I am 29, she is 28. We have a 2 year old and a one year old.

We are in marriage counseling now and it seems to be taking a positive turn.

She says that they aren't talking right now, but she hasn't cut off the affair with him in any sort of meaningful way.

I have a feeling contact is still daily.

Am I being naive in believing that they have never linked up for a physical encounter???

Posted By: MrWondering Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 06:53 PM
Welcome to MB.

I survived and recovered my marriage from a very similar situation (old high school boyfriend 750 miles away).

Quick advice:

1. Don't move out of your home...EVER
2. Don't say anything to your wayward wife right now...she WILL lie to you...instead you must get better at snooping out the truth about your life (keyloggers, voice activated recorders, etc.).
3. Once you have the facts about your life we will help you come up with and execute a plan of exposure as it is the strongest weapon you have to bust up the affair.

You can not save your marriage (and marriage counseling is a complete waste of time) UNTIL the affair is over....100% no contact OVER.

THAT is priority number one.

As far as whether you are naive or not...probably, but snooping will give you the answers you seek...all we can do here is guess.

Mr. Wondering
Posted By: FightingADivorce Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:04 PM
Well, wife and I are luckily spending a lot of time together, so her opportunities are very limited right now (at least for physical meetings).

I have been going hard with Plan A and it seems to be working insofar as her attitude toward me is much much warmer, conversations are more pleasant, and even a lot more physical affection than before the discovery of affair.

It is worth mentioning that hindsight being 20/20 I have been extremely lacking in meeting any of her emotional needs for several years....other than financial. The recipe for this affair had all the right ingredients.

She is basically saying now that she doesn't know what she wants to do. She is just leaving me in limbo.
Posted By: imagine Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:07 PM
Have you tried exposure of her or him with the emails. Have you got a list of exposure candidates?

The letter goes : Please help our marriage OM and WW are in constant communication with each other and are sexually explicit. I do not know whether they have met yet.

I would be grateful if you would hinder their association in any way that you are able.

Check for better examples in the "Notable posts"
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:08 PM
Originally Posted by FightingADivorce
She is basically saying now that she doesn't know what she wants to do. She is just leaving me in limbo.

She's probably still in contact then. Get a keylogger program for your computer (www.eblaster.com is a good one) and spy software for her cell phone.

Is the OM married or do you even know his name?

Posted By: TryingEverything Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:12 PM
An emotional affair can be just as damaging or more damaging to a marriage than a physical affair.

Examine cell phone records for texts and calls to OM. (That's how I figured out my WW was having an affair.)

Install a keylogger on her computer. Try to get her email passwords without her knowing. Facebook password too.

In all likelihood, she has a secret email address. Try to get that too. Don't confront her until you've broken into it and gone through it with a fine tooth comb. Save the evidence to your computer. Print out hard copies in case you need them for court.

Follow her to school, if you can. But don't get caught.

Be very skeptical of everything she says.

Posted By: FightingADivorce Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:16 PM
OM is divorced and has a daughter. Yes, I know his name.

Does it say anything positive at all that she has responded well to Plan A tactics?

Before I started with Plan A things were very very cold here at home. Even before I knew about affair. Very little talking, lots of fighting, very little sex, etc, etc. Still no sex right now (and not pushing it) but lots more hugs, cuddling, etc. She has also agreed to go to bed when I go to bed each night, instead of listening to her IPOD at night, which I know believe to be codespeak for phone sex.
Posted By: Wisertoday Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:22 PM
Fighting....

You could insert me right into your shoes. My wife had a long distance A, that I stumbled onto last year. We also have a few young kids. I was guilty of not meeting some EN's, but otherwise we were best friends and quite happy.

My wife met one of my business associates who lived several states away. I started noticing her on the phone alot texting someone. Within a month or so, she started with the "I'm changing and becoming a different person. I don't know what I want. Etc."

When I accused her too soon of an A, before knowing the facts, she denied completely that she was having an A. She just said she was changing and didn't know if our rocky past (surprise to me) could keep us together.

When I mentioned the OM, she said they just texted some harmeless things about business. Finally, I drug it out of her that the OM was flying into the state every month and they would meet up. Of course, they only kissed (yeah, right.)

So, in the end, they were having a full blown PA (hotels, sex, shopping trips), and the married OM and my W were going to get divorced to be together. But they had to keep the A a secret, so that it would appear that each other's M died a natural death.

Well, I exposed to the OMW and my W's friends, and the sh*t hit the fan. We are now well into recovery and things are going good.

My advice: your wife will look you straight in the eyes and lie. Then she will only reveal the tiniest bit of information because she is forced into a corner. You won't get the truth until you present the truth to her. How do you do that?

Snoop. Install a keylogger. Install a GPS in her car. Get as much intel as you can. If you go off half cocked like me, you will only drive the A underground, and people in A's will go to extraordinary lengths to keep you and everyone else in the dark.

You must have irrefutable truth. Then you have to expose in a nuclear fashion. It may seem strange to you to have to do these things, but they are your very best methods if you want to save your M.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:24 PM
Originally Posted by FightingADivorce
OM is divorced and has a daughter. Yes, I know his name.

Does it say anything positive at all that she has responded well to Plan A tactics?

Before I started with Plan A things were very very cold here at home. Even before I knew about affair. Very little talking, lots of fighting, very little sex, etc, etc. Still no sex right now (and not pushing it) but lots more hugs, cuddling, etc. She has also agreed to go to bed when I go to bed each night, instead of listening to her IPOD at night, which I know believe to be codespeak for phone sex.
How do you know for a fact that OM is divorced? Don't take your WW's word for it.

It's great that you are implementing Plan A. Keep doing that, but you also need to snoop. Get the keylogger - go to www.spectorsoft.com and order the eblaster.

Are you able to access your phone records online?

Snoop, and say nothing to your wife. Keep going on Plan A while you're doing this. If you find something, don't say anything to her. Come here and we'll help you with the next step.

It's great that you feel you're making progress with your MC. That typically isn't the case. Often the WW will lead her betrayed spouse to believe all is well by being sweet to him, while taking the A further underground to avoid detection. That's why you need the keylogger.
Posted By: FightingADivorce Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:27 PM
I know that in the fall and winter I was gone four times on short trips.

Knowing what I know now, I am just about convinced that he probably drove down here for a weekend encounter together.

She denies until she is blue in the face.

I can't stomach the fact that this guy may have slept with my wife in my bed with my kids in the next room. Just sickening.

Posted By: FightingADivorce Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:32 PM
My wife barely uses our computer. She has a blackberry and an IPOD with wireless connection. All her communication that I am aware of is typically done via text on her blackberry and facetime on the IPOD.

Out of curiosity:

It has frustrated me that our marriage counselor has not yet recommended that any measures be taken to completely sever the ties on this affair. Of course, my WW won't actually say that saving our marriage is exactly what she wants. Any reason why this is so??
Posted By: NeverGuessed Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:41 PM
...marriage counselor has not yet recommended that any measures be taken to completely sever the ties on this affair....Any reason why this is so??

Typically cynical NeverGuessed answer:

Because keeping you in "couple's therapy" without resolution does WHAT to his income stream?
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:42 PM
Originally Posted by FightingADivorce
My wife barely uses our computer. She has a blackberry and an IPOD with wireless connection. All her communication that I am aware of is typically done via text on her blackberry and facetime on the IPOD.

Out of curiosity:

It has frustrated me that our marriage counselor has not yet recommended that any measures be taken to completely sever the ties on this affair. Of course, my WW won't actually say that saving our marriage is exactly what she wants. Any reason why this is so??

Try this for monitoring the blackberry:

http://www.mobistealth.com/spy-software-phones.php

As for the Ipod (touch, I presume) either get rid of it or change the password on your home's internet thing that the Ipod uses to access the internet. Feign ignorance when she complains that she cannot get the Ipod to access the internet because the password is wrong.

As for her not saying that she wants to save her marriage, my money is because OM is still in the picture. Sorry, but that tends to be the case many times.

Remove him from the picture and only THEN will you get to have a chance to rebuild your marriage.

Your first task must be making sure he's gone. To do so, you've got to install the software to see what she's doing.

My wife did the same thing you're talking about and she had six secret emails over the span of a year. She lied her freaking rear off saying how it was over between them. Trust me, waywards can lie so well that even they won't know what the truth is. You'll get hooked in because you're so grateful for hearing the news that you want to hear.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:44 PM
Originally Posted by FightingADivorce
It has frustrated me that our marriage counselor has not yet recommended that any measures be taken to completely sever the ties on this affair. Of course, my WW won't actually say that saving our marriage is exactly what she wants. Any reason why this is so??

Our first marriage counselor (while WW was seeing OM and denying the affair) actually told me that there probably wasn't any need for my W and OM to quit working together since they weren't in the same department. Fifty feet away, but not in the same department. Yeah, I paid $120 to hear that little nugget of wisdom.
Posted By: maritalbliss Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:48 PM
Quote
It has frustrated me that our marriage counselor has not yet recommended that any measures be taken to completely sever the ties on this affair. Of course, my WW won't actually say that saving our marriage is exactly what she wants. Any reason why this is so??
I promised myself that I wouldn't be surprised to hear this about an MC again, but

faint
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by maritalbliss
I promised myself that I wouldn't be surprised to hear this about an MC again, but

faint

Oops, marital, you passed out before you finished your sentence smile
Posted By: Linus Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 11:03 PM
Originally Posted by FightingADivorce
The OM lives across the state (about 10 hours away) and she SWEARS up and down that they have NEVER had actual physical sex.

SO WHAT? An emotional affair (EA) is just as damaging as (maybe more so than) a physical affair (PA). I know - the affects from an EA ruined my marriage. The other guy was 1500 miles away, so there was never anything physical. Didn't matter.

Listen to the advice here. Wayward wives become different people. They lie. A lot. They will do anything to keep the affair going. Sorry to be so blunt, but I learned the hard way.

As far as the MC not demanding that the affair stop - fire him (or her). We tried counselling, and that was one of the first things the MC required - no more contact with the other guy. He stated that he had no chance of success until that happened.

Good luck.
Posted By: GloveOil Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/19/11 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by FightingADivorce
Out of curiosity:

It has frustrated me that our marriage counselor has not yet recommended that any measures be taken to completely sever the ties on this affair. Of course, my WW won't actually say that saving our marriage is exactly what she wants. Any reason why this is so??

FAD,
Under a most benign interpretation, your "marriage counselor" doesn't have the remotest clue about how to save a marriage. Here's what I suggest:

1) Take the money you would otherwise pay to him/her;
2) Take a Bic lighter & light the money on fire;
3) Enjoy the 7 seconds of light, heat & smoky frangrance you'll get. They'll be of more lasting value to your marriage than the advice of a so-called "marriage counselor" who won't call a spade [an emotional affair] a spade and who doesn't understand that you can't restore a marriage while one of the spouses is in an affair where she's getting key emotional needs met outside the marriage.

You have to kill the affair. That's step #1. There must be no contact whatsoever between your W & this other man, ever again.

I know what I'm talking about, FAD. See, I was a guy who had an affair. And my OW was a woman who'd also been having an affair with her ex-boyfriend, long-distance, because she'd "reconnected" with him online, and it gradually developed into a physical affair that sent her hellbound into her affair with me & into trashing her marriage. So don't underestimate the mortal threat that your W's affair poses to your marriage.
Posted By: Just Learning Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/20/11 12:05 AM
FAD,

I guess I always am surprised when a young man or woman comes to this site and seems reluctant to gather data electronically, given that the affair started and is maintained via electronic means.

You can tap into your own WiFi if you want. You can change the password so her WiFi tools don't work, and YOU can as others have already pointed out conduct survailance (sp) on your W electronically. Don't be reluctant to do this.

You need DATA before you can make any decisions. You need DATA before you can take actions. YOu need DATA before you can make any accusations. You need DATA before...

Gather the data, continue your plan A, prepare a list of people you feel will support your marriage or have some influence on your W and get ready to expose the affair. You must expose all at once and you MUST NOT TELL your W you are doing this. Gather your data, prepare for exposure (it very likely will need to be done given that it seems the affair is not over), and you must continue plan A.

Oh, and listen to the folks that have already posted to you, they know what they are talking about.

God Bless,

JL
Posted By: TryingEverything Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/20/11 12:33 AM
Has she said:

"I love you but I'm not in love with you."
"I need space."
"You should move out."
"You're too controlling."
"We were never happy."
"Our marital problems have nothing to do with OM."

Sure signs of an active affair.
Posted By: MelodyLane Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/20/11 12:37 AM
Originally Posted by FightingADivorce
It has frustrated me that our marriage counselor has not yet recommended that any measures be taken to completely sever the ties on this affair.

Because the "counselor" doesn't have the slightest idea how to save your marriage or he would be doing that. That is why. Dr Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, would tell you this:

From the new book by Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94:

"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."

Quote
Of course, my WW won't actually say that saving our marriage is exactly what she wants. Any reason why this is so??

Yes, because she is high on an affair. She is in a fog. A falling down drunk doesn't know what he wants either and your wife has the exact same mentality as a falling down drunk. Until you separate him from his booze. Therefore the solution is to kill her affair.
Posted By: EverAfter2010 Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/20/11 12:52 AM
You need to do serious recon on the OM and do not believe he might not be married. They will (waywards) lie to cover up exposure.

Exposure is the enemy of the affair. It makes the secret crap they do not fun anymore and definitely not in secret.

Is OM on Facebook? I'm sure you can find him. And his family and friends. Facebook is a great method of exposing quickly and to alot of their friends.

Also, you need to put a var in her vehicle (voice activated recorder). You need to hear what they are saying when you aren't there. It will help you understand what a wayward does and help you see how serious a situation this is.

You see, it is HARDER to lovebust (doing things that make a relationship fall apart) for the affair mongers if they aren't living a real life and in person. It's easy for this posom to be prince charming because he really doesn't have to DO ANYTHING. He just talks sweet, lies, and twists the truth.

She is believing fairy tales right now. Smoke and mirrors. This guy probably likes things as they are right now. Maybe getting some on the side with your ww? But he has very little to do. He probably doesn't want to be an instant daddy to your kids. He probably doesn't want marriage or anything, but as good time.

Another thing, you might find out on FB that this guy would be divorced BUT IN ANOTHER RELATIONSHIP too. Those who will lie and cheat and hurt your marriage, will have no problem lying or cheating to their affair partner!

Your ww is probably suffering from what us women get called "overwhelmed". Lack of en's getting met, combined with work, stress from being a mom, and feeling like we come home from one job only to start another job. Cook dinner, help kids w/homework or something kid-related each day. You need to Plan A your butt off right now!

Find out what your ww's top EN's are and also what she is missing and feels she's missed out on. It could be she is needing to feel she's cherished and treasured. This is so silly sounding, but seriously it's true. My sil and bil have a beautiful M, for 20 years now and married when he was in med school. But how they've remained so happy is this:
1)they go on family vacations
2)each year they take a couples' getaway vacation (at least 3 days them alone somewhere romantic and fun)
3)he sends her flowers on special days and gets jewelry to commemorate special days.

You might not think things like that are important to us, but they are. When you quit courting a girl, she withdraws. And when she begins to feel overwhelmed, then I think that is when a woman could become a candidate for a potential affair. When I get to feeling that way (the overwhelmed feeling comes on), my dh and I have some sort of quick vacation (we just got back from a family spring break trip).
Posted By: SapphireReturns Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/20/11 04:46 AM
Have you exposed the affair yet?
Posted By: Linus Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/20/11 12:15 PM
Originally Posted by FightingADivorce
. . . my WW won't actually say that saving our marriage is exactly what she wants.
I spent 18 months trying to get my wife to tell me what she wanted. She never did. The reason is because is she answered truthfully, it would be something like "I am very self-centered and selfish, so I want you to be around when I need you to pay the bills, mow the lawn, clean the house, take out the trash, screw me on the rare occasion when I feel like I need it, help take care of the kids, etc., etc., but I don't want to commit to being your wife anymore and I could care less about your needs.". That's called being a wayward wife.
Posted By: _SOL Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/20/11 01:27 PM
Yep. As Linus mentioned earlier, the fact that OM is 10 hours away is meaningless. It is still an affair and a serious threat to your marriage. In fact, since it may be primarily emotional only at this point (if you believe that), it may be harder to fight than a one night stand type of thing.

As JL said, you really need to gather data and find out exactly what you are dealing with. You KNOW You can't trust your WW right now. Get the facts for yourself to determine what you wish to do about it. Listen to the folks on here. They know what they are talking about.

By the way, my WXW started an online affair with a married man in Australia, 10,000 miles away. It developed into a physical affair with him coming here to see her and later her going there for two months. Don't underestimate the power of the fantasy. Fight it now and fight hard while you still have a chance.
Posted By: TryingEverything Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/20/11 03:16 PM
She may also be sending emails from a public computer, like at the public library or an internet cafe.
Posted By: FightingADivorce Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/21/11 09:47 PM
Here is where I am at now:

I have been running with Plan A hard. WW seems to have been very receptive to it, in so much as we haven't been fighting and she is even reciprocating a bit.

Found text messages today to OM (of course she has been lying and saying they weren't currently talking). They are in a little bit of a fight themselves because she feels like OM is starting to ignore her a bit and she got mad because he didn't respond to a text she sent for like 3 days.

I confronted her with the texts and she said the relationship is dying out because now she realizes he has just been using her to get off (phone sex). However, one of her texts read that she missed him like crazy.

I lost my temper a bit and got mad about the continued communication with him. Now we aren't talking and my Plan A is off the tracks.

What should I do? Try to get back on Plan A?

Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/21/11 11:59 PM
Confronting your wife over her behavior is not against plan A. It's normal and you need to take steps to end this contact. It doesn't sound like you've exposed, but I'll have to read your full thread to tell.

But your lack of success in stopping contact tells me there has been no exposure and you're functioning on hope.
Posted By: helpthelostdads Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/22/11 12:01 AM
Ok. I just read what little you've written. Exposure kills affairs. You haven't done it. So you're not on plan A. You're in doormat mode. It's one where you act nice, tolerate her contact with OM, and hope she just stops on her own. Not going to happen until you expose.
Posted By: Linus Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/22/11 01:46 AM
EXPOSE! She's using you big time.
You're never going to make progress until the affair is over, and the best weapon you have is exposure.
Until then, Plan A is a waste of time.
Posted By: Northwood8900 Re: WW Having Long Distance Affair - 04/22/11 05:04 AM
Originally Posted by FightingADivorce
I lost my temper a bit and got mad about the continued communication with him. Now we aren't talking and my Plan A is off the tracks.

What should I do? Try to get back on Plan A?

She's trying to punish you for daring to tell her not to cheat on you. You realize how asinine (yet true) that is, right?

Plan A isn't about being a doormat and letting her blatantly strut around with her boyfriend. To the contrary, it's your job to protect you and your children from this type of behavior.

Tell her to knock it off now. That you won't have her cheating on you while you and your children are in this house. Further, her doing this childish silent treatment is so juvenile that she really needs to leave the house if she's going to be doing that or continuing her adultery. You've got two children already, you don't need a third and she needs to grow up.

Then expose this to everyone you can think of on her and her boyfriend's side.

The sooner you stop putting up with this, the sooner you take back control over your life. And since she won't provide a good example for your children (you know they model their future relationships on what they see growing up) then you have to step up to the plate for them.

She'll pitch a fit, of course, when you stand up for yourself, but they all do it. It's in their playbook, on page 32. smile

Go for it, take back the reins here.
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