I am 38 years old; my WS is 36 (recently turned) years old. We have been married for 16 years and have 3 kids; ages 6 (daughter), 11 (daughter), and 14 (son).
This is the first marriage for us both although I have an 18 year old daughter out of wedlock who is currently married and pregnant with our grandchild. My daughter has only known life with us married.

My WS is in an EA with an old high school boyfriend who was her first love at age 14 when he was 18. Her mother did not know about the age difference at first and then upon learning highly monitored their relationship for the 1 year they were together. My WS states they began dating again when she was 17 (for about 1 year again) but my mother in law doesn�t believe it was possible as she still highly monitored all of her relationships. They recently reconnected via phone through my mother-in-law. He called her house since her phone number hasn�t changed in the 19 years and asked how my WS is currently doing. My mother in law explained she is happily married with a loving husband and 3 kids. The conversation ended and then she passed his phone number along to my wife not thinking anything would come of it. My wife claimed at first she contemplated trashing the number but after mulling it over for 4 days (she claims she told me he called and was thinking about calling him) she finally returned his call. She says the phone conversation was only just catching up at first, but then realized she enjoyed his compliments and he made her feel good and she had not gotten that from me in some time (past 2 years). So, they continued their conversations for the next 6 weeks, talking 10 � 30 minutes here and there about every other day. I did notice some behavior changes, but nothing so pronounced that I was suspicious. She even told me she was talking on the phone with a former female co-worker and a few times she was even in the next room. She since has admitted she believed I was so blind that I wouldn�t catch on.
I discovered the EA on 8 April when she called me to explain she was going to meet this former co-worker because she was upset with her new marriage and was threatening to end her recently believed pregnancy and possibly her life. I got some �red flag� feelings but just blew them off as insecurities. Since I work in the direction she was heading toward, I went to the highway exit to await her so could flag her down, give her a hug and head home. She never made it to the exit and I began searching for her all over the area. I remembered she stated she was at a restaurant in a certain area and I found her vehicle at the hotel beside it. I checked with the hotel clerk for the co-worker and then awaited my WS to exit where I then confronted her and she denied. I took some photos (I always have a digital camera in my car; thank God) of the vehicles in the parking lot, making a few notes and I then went home (she went to work) and I began my snooping. I discovered the phone number she has been chatting with belonged to her former boyfriend and that one of the vehicles had a vanity plate with the same last name on it. I also noticed the vehicle was a truck and it was backed into the lot. I paid for the reverse look up for the name on the cell phone and I went to meet her after she got off work. As she left her building she was on the phone and I demanded her to put it on speaker phone and she hung up stating I�m paranoid. Throughout the night, we discussed it with her completely denying it and then when we went to bed at 2:30am she finally admitted the affair.

I have exposed the affair to my parents (immediately), her mother (about a week+ later) and a co-work/friend (just recently) and she has become FURIOUS. She now no longer sleeps in our bed and has removed her wedding ring. She claims she is past furious and in a place she may not recover from for our marriage/relationship, although she did admit there is a small glimmer of hope still in her heart. She says it will take time and a lot of work. Currently, it seems all is one sided, but I have changed my neglectful behavior, have been domestically helping around the house and have knocked out her honey-do list. I�ve also been trying to just relax and not smother her.

Any suggestions? Help?

If you caught them at a hotel, this is a PA (physical affair) not an EA (emotional affair).

Others will be along to help you very soon, you're in the right place.

Has all contact ended? Is the OM married?

We've discussed it and she claims all they did was discuss their horrible breakup from 19 years ago. She did say he tried to kiss her, but she held to the fact she is married and would not go any further. She has stuck to this story for the last 3+ weeks. Call me naive, but I do believe her. Plus, one of her close friends who she has dicussed this EA with wrote her a letter telling her she needed to pull her head out of her A$$ and in the letter her friend references that they only talked this time, but if she continues there may be a time when talking is not all they do. I spoke with her and she's angry my WW is doing this and says she believes my WW has no reason to lie to her about it and she also said my WW didn't hesitate in answering the question about whether she still loves me. She said, "Yes, I love him and I'm still in love with him". She just claims I've been withdrawn and not Emotionally Available for her for the last two years and she's afraid to give in to the fact I'm alert and she has my attention now. I just wish I could convince her.

She claims she told him on Monday, 25 April that I know and they have to stop talking and she hasn't spoke with him since. She continues to stick with this story.

Welcome to the BH's Club, the club that no-one wants to be a member of.

It looks like you're on the right track so far (which can be summarized as Expose->Plan A->Plan-B if necessary). If you're not sure what "Plan A" is, there are enough pointers in this forum and on this website that can be of assistance. I also suggest getting a copy of "Surviving An Affair", also available off of this site.

Concerning the OM, is he M'd or in a long-term relationship? If so, have you exposed his A to the OMW / OMGF? Your WW and the OM need to have no further contact, and the OM's spouse can be your best ally in that regard.

The OM is divorced with two kids and obviously on the prowl.

I won't make the obvious joke. SadDad, people don't go to hotels to discuss youthful dating breakups spanning from decades before.

Your WW has more than likely lied to her friend about the extent of the involvement because she knows her friend won't approve.

You sound like you've got a head on your shoulders. I'd suggest you do some snooping to get to the bottom of this.

Sad, ITA with marital.

I am a FWW. Please believe me when I (and others) tell you that waywards lie. I stuck to the same story with my H for FOUR MONTHS. I would only admit to an EA and denied the A had gone PA. I also did not discuss the A with any of my friends while it was going on (they would not have approved) and I also told them the same lies I told my H when the A was first revealed. There are others on here who have similar stories. It's called "trickle truth," and it's what WS's do. She would not be meeting him at a hotel if they were not in a PA.

Agree with mb and WPG. They did more than talk at that hotel, I am sorry to say, saddad. I would ask her to submit to a poly.

Have you verified independently that OM is indeed divorced? Because that is oftentimes a lie...

Why? You have a wife that went to a hotel room with a man that is not her husband. Why would you believe that they only talked, coulda done that through email.


The technical term for this is "hooey", which comes in bunches. need to think that the friend is covering for your wife because she's been busted and wants to minimize the damage.

Of course she's angry, they're ALWAYS angry after exposure, because you are interfering with her little fantasy. Exposing is to an affair what happens after dragging a vampire into sunlight - neither can stand the light of day.

It's also called 'fogtalk' and you're getting a lot of it and will continue to get a lot of it. WW's do this well. They also lie a lot. They are also great at shifting the blame for their affair to YOU, so get ready for that too.

Been there - listen to the advice you're getting. BTW - great job of snooping - keep it up. She's gone deeper underground, so you're going to have to get even better at it.

Well, I do believe I'm getting a lot of "fogtalk" but I'm just not sure what to do now. I've been doing a lot of cleaning, laundry, cooking and spending time with my kids. WS and I have been spending time together and everything seems good but then it's time for bed or I attempt to show affection and she shuts down. She says it is because she's "beyond furious" because I exposed the A to her mother and her friend. Before that we seemed to be moving on a path to recovery and had been having very passionate sex everynight. Now it is nothing but "roomate status".

Before I say much more....let me ask. Does your wife know you are posting here? Is she going to read our advice to you?

Mr. W

Not that I know of, I have talked about the MB site, but not about the forum specifically. She doesn't spend much time on the computer and hasn't for about a week. I don't believe she will troll through the forums as that has never been her.

FYI...

My wife and I are fully recovered from a short term affair my wife had with an old high school/college boyfriend 6 years ago.

Good...well keep it a secret for now.

You are FAR more likely to snoop out the truth about their relationship than otherwise. If you just lay low a few days as though you are buying your wife's story that they didn't have sex and they aren't speaking to each other all the while you are snooping your butt off you'll likely have your answers. The biggest mistake betrayed spouses make is relying on their extensive knowledge of how their wayward spouse USED to act. You can't trust her as she's not really your wife right now so all those instincts are out the window.

I suggest reading the snooping forum and most likely getting voice activated digital voice recorder(s) to try to record her conversations with either the OM or some girlfriend-in-the-know. Hide one in the car and one in the most likely place for her to have cell or house phone conversations privately in the house. Also watch out for the dreaded "affair phone" a secret cell phone they use to communicate on. If OM has any money he'll get her one.

Sure it's possible they didn't fool around but every wayward claims the same thing as they falsely believe that if you weren't actually in the room you can't prove it happened. I'd put the odds at about a 0.01% chance (1 in a 10,000) she's telling the truth. She'd have met him in a restaurant if she'd intended to tell him "I'm married and won't cheat".

Sorry you find yourself here but you're in the best place you can be. MB saved my wife and I and it can save you two as well.

Mr. W

Oh, I can forgive and we can move forward if I can get some commitment from her. I also believe there is some tit-for-tat since I had an EA 8 1/2 years ago. Mine only last for 3 weeks with NO PA and no contact upon wife's discovery. I was quick to come out of the "fog" since I realized I had gone down the wrong path with a co-worker. I immediately quit the job and tried to recover with the wife.

I'm sorry but she is lying about this. But don't take my word for it, arrange a polygraph and give her an opportunity to PROVE she is being truthful. I assure you this is not true.

Secondly, I would verify independently that he is divorced. Adulterers often lie about this. He might have lied to your wife and she might be lying to you. It is easy enough to check out. Call his house and see who is on the answering machine. You might be able to find out that way. Or do a search on intelius.com or people finder.com. If he is married, you will need to tell his wife and family.

I would also suggest paying this loser a personal visit in order to run him off. He is out to destroy your family and will succeed unless you put a stop to it.

Good suggestion!

You are more likely to get committment if you a) kill the affair and b) get the truth. Please follow MrW's suggestions and get the goods because I don't believe the affair is over. You need to do some super sleuthing.

I haven't been able to discover any divorce information so he maybe still married although she believes he is divorced.

She did lie to me and said they stopped talking once before and I searched her vehicle before work and found one of our old blackberrys she's been using with a SIM card he gave her. The line came back as his and I have the text messages (four of them) with only limited contact.

Call his house. See who is on the answering machine. Drive over there yourself.


Did you confront her about this? When did you find this?

Does he have a facebook page? If so, I would copy and paste all his friends into a word doc for safekeeping. SEe if you can find a wife on there. Does your wife have him as a facebook friend?

No, she is 'beyond furious' because you put a damper on her little affair.

Sad Dad,

You are experiencing an almost identical story that many of us have lived. You and your wife had great sex before the A was discovered because many women's libido goes into hyperdrive when they are sleeping with two men.

You are on "roommate status" because she probably feels allegiance to her other lover, and doesn't want to feel like she's "two-timing" her affair partner.

She is furious because you have made it more difficult for her to carry out her sexual affair.

She went to a motel to "talk" with her ex boyfriend. Of course she did! While they were having sex.

What credibility do I have? My FWW did the exact same thing to me! You are being lied to and manipulated to believe it's your fault.

Install keyloggers, a VAR and GPS in her car. Get your facts in order, because she will drive the affair deep underground and try to convince you it never happened.

Don't believe it for a second. She is having sex, and she is hoping she can make you believe otherwise. I'm sorry that I may sound like the bearer of bad news.

Follow the advice given here. It works.

Ouch! Also know to calm down and rationalize everything you say. This is a war and wars are won with a plan.
Sorry you have joined us but you are in the right place. Know for sure that you need to listen to the letter on killing the A.

Ok. Time to really really face facts. Ever heard of occam's razor?

It is a way of solving a problem. Searching for an answer.

Here's what Occam said about finding the answer to a question. Your question is "did my wife go to a motel to talk to the other man? Just talk and no sex?"
Occam gave this explanation: "entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity".

And here's another thought on the subject. Another less confusing definition if you will. It simply means, the least complicated or simplest answer is many times the RIGHT answer.

Let's apply this to the "well we went TO A MOTEL to just talk" theory of your ww.

Why would they need to go to a hotel to talk when they could do so in public. Say at Starbucks. Out in the open, having a friendly coffee. Now let's contrast that with being in a hotel room. What do you do in a hotel room. You might sleep in a hotel room. You might disrobe and take a shower there. You might even, if with a partner, and you feel like it have sex there too.

To me, the simplest answer when faced with her allegation that she went there to talk is incorrect. Why? It's not the simplest answer.

You go to a hotel room and basically intimate things happen there. Sleeping, showering, at the most innocent. But we also know that people can have sex there too.

At a Starbucks, you can't have sex there. You can't shower there, you can't sleep there, although I bet somebody has tried all 3 at some time or another somewhere. It's not a place of intimacy.

So the most obvious answer is YOUR WIFE went to the HOTEL to HAVE SEX with the om.

Occam's razor applied. It's the simplest and easiest answer.

Might I also add that I believe he is also married (the om). Why? If he were a single guy, what would prevent him from taking her to his place "to talk" (wink wink). Nothing. Why choose a place of separated intimacy like a hotel room unless he has something BIG to hide away (like a wife).

I think you sir, should snoop snoop snoop. Please don't bring your ww to this site as of yet. I think possibly, she is trying to not see her affair partner right now, hence the "roommate" type of feeling/vibe/actions she is giving you right now. You've discovered her secret. And she still seems to think she has an actual chance to pull one over on you. Silly wayward!

Please snoop. And please devise a plan to uncover what is really going on with your ww and om. Learn about plan A, execute it well, and also apply THE STICK of plan A, which is exposure exposure exposure! That means you go to operation investigate, use the outstanding tips there and go for it. You blow the om out of the water with the truth, reaching not only him but family and friends and if he is associated with your wife at work, then go to management, bosses, and ceo of the darn company. You reach as far as you can with exposure.

Search and destroy the affair.

No, he doesn't have a Facebook page or get on the computer for anything, that's one reason she claims she's attracted to him since I'm fairly computer literate and I'm ALWAYS online. Until recently that is.

I plan on having someone call his house because the county records show his wife and his parents are all registered to his house.

Also, I did confront her and have confiscated the phone. There were only 4 calls total, made about 2-3 days apart. There were also 4 texts with no replies, so I do not know what she said to him. They look like he's the only one texting.

See? The razor is usually right (why they call it Occam's razor b/c it cuts thru quickly to the truth!). I knew he was married because the simplest answer was, if he was single they'd go to his house.

Why do you need somebody else to call? YOU call. YOU expose. No warnings are to ever be given prior to exposure. You surprise them, ambush them if it is to have the maximum effect. No warning shots fired. Don't make him expect it.

For all you know, your ww may have tipped him off to that anyhow.

I am committed to saving our marriage, PA or EA. I love my wife and my family and will do what is necessary.

Her explanation for the hotel is that he just got off work and wanted to go there so they may talk. He chose there because he wanted to take a shower and shave to "freshen up" before hand. He lives 2 hours away from us, and the hotel was the halfway point for them both. I have the receipt where she went to Walmart to pick up shower and shaving items for him.

Saddad... believe nothing until confirmed at this point. Tag that cell and give it back. Snoop and let things go back to Normal.

I do not believe it. Simply do not. Again, why does he need personal hygeiene items if he only lives two hours away and that's clearly and easily within driving distance of his home (he shares with his wife)?

I'll tell you why. Again, applying the razor. He wanted to take a shower and shave so he could TALK to your wife?

That is unlikely. More likely was he used those items to wash off the smell of your wife's perfume or from intimate contact smells before he drove home to his wife.

I live in a large metro area where an hour commute is nothin'. So I don't buy that he had to freshen up in a hotel room before meeting JUST TO TALK with your wife.

I've met my friends for dinner after work, and carried a small bag of tolietries with me to fix my hair, makeup, and perfume, etc and a change of clothes and mouthwash, toothbrush, etc so that I looked and smelled nicer after work.

Did I need to rent a hotel room to do that? Oh no. I just used the really nice restrooms at work. I didn't need to shower b/c I took one before work and would take one after coming home.

It simply makes no sense. If he was just talking to your wife, he could have freshened up at a darn starbucks, as there's no need to go and get a hotel room.

Do you really believe this? Seriously. This guy would tip his own wife off to his having an affair if he came home smelling of strange perfume or other stuff.

We WANT you to save your marriage and recover fully. 100 PERCENT! But if you think nothing happened in that hotel room with a married other man, then I have some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you.

A woman who is married with children DOES NOT GO TO A HOTEL ROOM to meet with another man who is married or even single for that matter. You simply do not. There is no viable or good reason to do that.

My dad used to tell me when I was a teenager trying to stay out late with my friends on the weekends this.."Peach, there is nothing good that happens after midnight." Kinda like this situation. You could re-adjust my wise dad's words to say "SadDad, there is nothing good that happens at a motel when a married woman goes to meet either a married or single guy there to simply "talk"."

SadDad, here's the thing. They were in a hotel room together. What does common sense tell you? Please don't let her gaslight you!

SD, you can call yourself by disguising your number with *67. I would also make plans to drive to his house and meet his wife and give her your evidence. I assure you this would likely kill the affair for good. OM rarely leave their wives for a cheap piece of fun on the side. He will dump your wife like a hot potato.

When you call, I would ask for her and tell her all about the affair. Ask to come over and show her your evidence.

I assure you they had sex. People don't rent hotel rooms for any other reason. This is a lie. They could have easily talked on the phone or in the park.. And they would have had sex at his house if he wasn't married.

I am sorry to be so blunt. I know you want to believe she didn't have sex, but she did.

Gotta agree with peachy on this. A married person goes to a hotel to meet another person of the opposite sex to boink - pure and simple.

Keep investigating. Something smells here.

I get it, and understand, but it doesn't change much for me in what I want. I want to save my marriage.

I do know he's a blue collar worker in manual labor (former construction, currently working for a gas company) and is a down for her like I've read in one of the articles here. I'm a professional, white collar worker with a college education. I guess the difference is an attraction too?

So, how do I "tag" a phone. I can't give the phone back as I threw it away.

SO, now what folks? Do I just keep following Plan A's stick and carrot and try to be supporting and acting normal but keep snooping?

Yes, I would keep snooping, but additionally, you should get the information about the OM. Find out if he is married and where he lives. A big part of the strategy in saving your marriage will be to expose the affair to the OM's wife and his family. Can you hire a PI to tail your wife and to get background info on the OM?

And please keep in mind that the things we are telling you are for the intent of saving your marriage. We aren't telling you these things to discourage you, but to help you see the situation as it really is.

Please go to the forum below "surviving and affair" called "operation investigate" and read and absorb.

It doesn't matter what the om did or doesn't do. We know they usually do affair down in some form. But your wife is trying to sell a lie to you that is simply counter to reality.

Like trying to convince you the sky is green. My xwh used to do that. It IS called gaslighting and is a form of emotional abuse. He used to try to make me think I didn't see or hear what I thought I did and your ww is trying to make you think she went to a hotel room to TALK to a married man who simply used the hotel room to shower up and shave and clean up after an honest days' work so he could drive home all squeaky clean and nice for his wife.

And is she BLAMING you and accusing you that you are all wrong, that you just simply are paranoid or accusatory? That you are just blowing things up out of proportion? Is she? If so, that's gaslighting.

You snoop, you snoop, you GET the evidence you need and you expose. If she goes on and on about things or tries to gaslight you, you do have the right always of course, to tell her that "sweetie, we both know what happens in hotel rooms when men and women who aren't married to each other go into them and shut the door behind them. I'm not a fool." You have to nicely let her know you don't buy the crap.

Meanwhile, you go get the proof. She'll probably get on edge, but do not tip your hat to what you are doing. When you DO find all the evidence, you then expose. Read up on the STICK part of plan A. Read up on exposure after you go to operation investigate to find out how to combat this affair.

Nobody deserves to be gaslighted.

Sad_Dad, I say this with no malice & much sadnesss for you, but you are temporarily the most blind man on the planet if you believe her on this.

I am a man who got into an affair. We met in coffee shops, in a bookstore, at a grocery, at parks, to talk; but the only times we met at hotels it was for one main reason. One time, when we met at a bookstore to talk & have coffee, on the way there, I went to the store at her request and bought her about 6 bucks worth of mundane grocery stuff (kleenexes, dish-soap, stuff like that) so that she could "prove" to her husband that she had been just out at the store, in case he pressed her about her whereabouts. This is the stuff people do when they are deep into affairs. Now who're you gonna believe? Your wife (who has motive to lie to you); or me (who has no such motive)?

I've changed my life now, and your wife can too, but you have to treat this mess as what it is. You need to listen to Melody Lane and peachy and maritalbliss and the others here. You need to expose this all over the place. Yeah, she'll be angry, 'cuz you're busting up her little affair-fantasy snowglobe. But she can get over that & get through withdrawal & then you can perhaps save your marriage. But you'll never be able to save your marriage as long as she stays in contact with him & stays in the affair.

So, how do I "tag" a phone There are many tools depending on the phone. Smartphones can have spyware downloaded to relay all text/email/call-logs to a web site for logging it and GPS her location all at the same time. Go to www.mobistealth.com. Thats one of many.
You can save your M. It will take killing the A first. And no the difference isn't attraction its that he is filling her Emotional Needs (EN'S) better than you are. So after killing the A you do a stellar plan A and fill those EN's yourself.She will babble stuff like "we have grown apart" and other crap. IGNORE IT! its called fog babble.
This is going to be a war that you must win. Be prepared by snooping and getting your intel. Then in one swift motion drop the Exposure bomb. This is a KEY STEP to kill the A! Dont be scared or shy TELL EVERYONE that may influence her or that she may be embarrassed by with the truth. She will be mad. Ignore it! Tell her you Love her and are committed to saving your M but that the OM has to go.
Sad Dad this is going to be the most painful experience of your life. But know this for sure, if your M can recover things will be better than ever before. The principals of DR H when applied work.
I will tell you if you are anything like me and others here go ahead and see your MD. Ask him for something to help you through what is the most stress you will ever feel. Come here often to get council from these fine folks. It will help you decipher her babble and give you strategies to save your M.
Strap on the flack jacket and tighten your boot laces, lock and load! Its war time!

I read your story on the train this morning and feel very bad for you. You stood out to me because of your birth year. We�re the same age.

So now you face the ugly truth and are searching for answers to the path you need to follow. Your head knows what your heart is denying. You WANT to believe your WW when she tells you that she didn�t do anything with this man other than talk. I was there. I too told myself that my WXW was telling me the truth that she limited herself to only flirting with the men she communicated with online. That wasn�t the case at all.

My friend, I won�t beat the dead horse. Your wife didn�t go to a hotel to talk. Everyone has already mentioned the reasons why.

That being said, what you need to do now is follow the advice on this board. I didn�t listen and I did everything wrong. I followed what felt right to me, which is very different than what needs to be done.

The best advice I received when I was going through my own he77 was that I needed to be ice cool. Think James Bond cool, Bruce Lee cool. Lower your emotional state and emulate these guys in order to do what must be done. Do not react to her emotions. She will lose it in every way if you follow the advice you�re given here. She will tell you that you ruined any chance to save things if you do what you must do.

It�s all the blithering fog babble of an addict. Think of it as taking away the crack pipe from a user. The user will be ticked off and come after you.

But it must be done.

A big part of this is making the path of divorce look as ugly and nasty as possible while the path of reconciliation looks better. That means the plan A part, but don�t be afraid to show the stick of plan A. That means that you dispel any notions she may have that you will simply lie down and take a divorce without a fight or that you won�t pursue that path yourself if you feel it�s necessary.

If your WW insists on continuing this contact, then make it clear that you won�t stay in a marriage where she is having an affair. Tell her, very calmly, that if she goes down that path you will file for divorce if necessary on the grounds of adultery and will pursue sole physical and legal custody of the kids. Will you get it? No. But the purpose of this is to engage in psychological warfare. Let her know she stands to lose it all over her lover.

Once you�re done telling her that, let her know that you�d much rather save things, but that it can�t happen unless there is no contact for life with this other man and she must put that in a letter and have it mailed to him.

You will not recover your marriage unless this happens and counseling while she�s in contact is a waste of time.


You also need to expose to your kids in an age appropriate way. They probably already know something is up.

Best of luck.

And you need to make the other man's life hell. Find out where he lives, contact his wife and tell her what you know. She will be your greatest ally.

(even if his "wife" is now his "ex-wife" as she still may care what he's doing and more likely cares very much who her xh may be exposing her child to)

Mr. w

I hope we haven't lost you . . . .

No, I'm still here, just feeling down.

Brilliant! I didn't even think of Occam, but you are spot on with the logic. The only thing I'd add is that as a guy, I could never imagine spending 65-125 bucks for a hotel room to talk for an hour or two...

CV

Agreeing with the others...

This is a PA.
It is still going on.
You need to expose far and wide.... not only his wife, but his mom and dad, all your friends and family.... etc.

Let that bomb explode, see where the dust settles.

Update:
Things went well on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday somewhat with just going through the norm with the family, etc.

Then on Thursday, she leaves work and goes out to the bar without letting me know anything and then when I call she blows me off telling me it's Cinco de Mayo and she'll be home later. I went to the restaurant and she was only with her two girlfriends and then I went home and went to bed.

Last night, we are talking while she is at work and I'm asking if she wants to get a movie and she informs me she is going out again with her two friends. Only this time I ask a few simple considerate questions such as: where are you going, can you stay in town, when are you coming home? She states she doesn't know and then has to get off the phone.

A friend and I use her car and stakeout my wife until she leaves work and she immediately leaves town to meet him at another hotel. I'm frantic, hurting and talking to my mother and my aunt trying to determine what to do. After about 30-45 minutes, we decide to confront them so my friend (female who just lost her husband to another woman) convinces the manager to open the door if they don't come out. They do and they are both completely dressed and the bed hasn't been touched. I know I need to face the PA reality, but I still don't believe they have gotten that far YET. My friend talks to my wife for about 30 minutes and then my wife comes down to talk to me for about 15 minutes. She asks for 20 minutes to finish talking to him, and we leave. She does come home about 45 minutes later.

We spent the 5 1/2 hours talking about all the issues haunting us. I've only got the few currently going on but she is reaching back into the last 12 years of marriage. She's clearly far babble. I've read on here about SAA, but I don't know how to counter this. I've exposed to my friends and family and hers, but I have not exposed to his yet. I suppose that's the next step.

She claims she loves me but with me has come some great hurt over the years and she's in love with him. So she's torn. She has stuck to the story that she went 11 days without talking to him, but he called her at work yesterday afternoon to check up on her and let her know he would be in the area if she wanted to talk. It hurts SO much to she her driving so fast last night to get to his hotel room. She's also not accepting much guilty or responsibility for the A, just blaming me and me not listening to her for the last few years.

She says he does only wants her happy, but I hear what she's repeating he's said and he's REALLY working her. If I attempt to do the same, I'm only out for me and not her.

I'm at a lose, WHAT NOW?

If I talk about how this will affect our kids and how she's throwing away 16 years together, she get upset stating I'm using guilt on her or I'm being manipulative.

On another note, we did seem to be on track last week to a recovery, but then I told her mother who confronted her and then I told her co-worker/best friend who also broke down to her. She claims I've betrayed her and hurt/angered her past the point of getting to a new starting point.

I don't think you understand what constitutes recovery and what doesn't. You were not on track to recovery at all and seem to have confused peace at all cost with real recovery. Appeasing a wayward is NOT recovery. As you can see it only led to your wife going off to shag her boyfriend in a hotel room. It does not matter if she is upset. Your marriage can survive her anger, it won't survive an ongoing affair. So it is important that you focus on running off the OM instead of keeping the peace at all costs. Appeasement will gain you nothing but an entrenched affair.

It doesn't matter if she calls you manipulative or if you use guilt on her. You must stop paying attention to that and focus on saving your marriage.

Expose the affair TODAY to the OM's side of the family and anyone else who doesn't know. Raise holy hell in the affair and don't stop until it is killed. Expose to EVERYONE on your wife's side. Your children, her family everyone.

This is the equivalent of bringing in a crowd of people to watch the crackheads get high. It ruins the high and makes the crackheads feel silly. And of course they are angry, so what?

And I am sorry to tell you this, but this affair is physical. They do not go to hotel rooms to sing church hymns.

Ok, did you follow our suggestions to expose to the OMW?

What about all your kids? Have they been told?

If you have not exposed to the OMW, then I don't believe you are serious about saving your marriage and are just wasting our time. This should have already been done. You have their address. Why not just drive there? TODAY.

It's a two hour drive to his house and I still don't know if they are still married. How would I find this out? Call and ask?

I am serious, I'm just afraid of losing her by pissing her off more atm and she's already telling me that's one of the reasons she's drawn to him because he doesn't appear to be hurt her by doing all I've done. I'm trying to enjoy and make the most of each and every day with her.

I love and will miss her dearly if I lose her.

Expose the affair to our kids? Wouldn't that damage their view of her forever? They are 6, 11, and 14.

With that attitude why not invite him into your bedroom, after all you are saying your afraid, afraid of what saving your marriage? You are enabling the affair , get up and start acting and behaving like a husband who is fighting an intruder who is going to wipe your family out, if you don't believe that wait till she divorces you to live her fantasy.

If you can't find his wife track down his coworkers, friends , parents anyone who will make him hide away, everyone who knows him to ensure he cannot walk around without stares and comments.

Sad Dad, please listen to MelodyLane! Please don't be so naive as to assume that this affair is not physical! Why do you suppose they would pay money to 'talk' when they could sit at a park for free??

You're best bet is to expose this to OMW. THis should have been done already.

Now she's telling you that she is 'in love' with OM. Are you waiting to act until she tells you she's leaving you for OM? What are you waiting for??

If you can track her to a hotel and get the manager to open their door, you're made of sturdy stuff. Use that same strength to kill this affair. Expose to OMW, Sad. Save your M.

No, telling the truth doesn't damage kids. What would damage them is if you end up getting a divorce which is where this is heading if you continue to enable the A.

Dr. Harley advocates exposing the affair to the kids. It helps to defog the WS and it also tells the kids that the tension/marital problems are NOT their fault.

It doesn't take a bed to suck face or do other physical sins.

My WH lived with his OW and acted like they were "Just Friends" Then I found the hot tub picutes, still just friends, then I found the phone records, the middle of the night text messages, the gifts, still "Just Friends".

Do I have actual evidence of the act, "NO!!", but I have been on this sight long enough to know it was an affair. It destroyed our entire lives. My kids and I only have our souls left to start over. We lost everything from my $100k career, *****clearance, our friends, our security, our safety, our way of life. He is losing even more, his money, his military career, and his soul. All because he thinks POSOW will love him unconditionally!!! It is the saddest reality on the planet.

I found all the evidence three months after he left me and my four kids while deployed overseas. He gave me the "I love you because you are the mother of my children crap...."

I not only filed adultery charges against them in the military, I exposed the thing to all their Unit *******My WH has one friend and my MIL that support this affair. The rest of the folks are looking at the two of them in disgust. My WH is super pissed - still wants divorce today, still thinks I am out for vengance, still thinks I am evil, still thinks I am awful.

Their fantasy will come crashing down in July once they return to the States from their deployment. I am waiting for him patiently in Plan B. He may or may not ever see the light. I may have lost him forever, but I am willing to wait and see. I have my timeline, and I am fully prepared to live my life without him. I would still do whatever it takes to save my marriage today because of my four beautiful babies, and my LB has not been fully depleted. I am getting his most important EN ready (my physical appearance) so when he seems me in July I will be the wife of his youth.

That is all you can do is change yourself and attempt to kill this affair at all costs.

EXPOSE!!! EXPOSE!!! EXPOSE!!! IF YOU WANT ANY CHANCE TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE.

Your Wayward is high at the moment. Their brain chemicals are altered, and they are only thinking of themselves. Don't let what happened to me happen to you. It is awful to be in this situation nine months later. If they don't end this affair, your entire world will be unrecognizable, and your future will forever head down an alternative path.

Do all you can to kill this affair to possibly give your family a chance. If not, then go into Plan B and work on your alternative life plan. Life as you know it today, will no longer ever be...

The only way to knock some sense into them without using your fists is to shame them, guilt them, humiliate them all while smothering her with love. Once the fog lifts, the withdraw begins, and their true raw emotions can feel the pain.

Nothing will ever be recovered as long as there is contact. KILL THIS AWFUL AWFUL AFFAIR!!!!

Written by a FWS re exposure:
LINK

My wife had an affair with an old boyfriend last year. I fought back and exposed after some of Melody's "gentle" prodding.

OMW or GF will be your greatest weapon. The affair in my case self destructed immediately when I reached her. You think your wife will be mad? HA compare that to what OMW will do to him.

Want your family back? Get in the car, do not sleep do not eat do not stop until you find this woman. I don't care if you have to drive across the country to do it. Find her today.

BTW I also owe credit to Marital, Wondering, Xau, and a whole bunch of others...not to leave anyone out.

See, your goal is to avoid pissing her off and ours is to save your marriage. Completely different goals. Your marriage can survive her anger, it can't survive an ongoing affair. You are losing your marriage a little more each and every day by twiddling your thumbs. The Titanic is sinking and you are saying you don't want to rock the boat.

Your complacence reflects a lack of caring. You are going to lose your marriage, Sir. Your marriage is being destroyed by an affair and you are twidding your thumbs. You should be getting in your car and driving to his house to see if he is married. You should be sitting your kids down and telling the truth. You should be exposing to anyone and everyone in your circle and the OM's circle.

We don't care if your wife gets mad. If she doesn't get mad, then you aren't doing your job. Be assure if you won't man up and fight for your marriage that you are going to lose your marriage.


Then how about doing something to show that? Do you know that we have saved our marriages? You are arguing with people who have saved their marriages using these tactics.

Like I said earlier, I don't believe you are serious about wanting to save your marriage. I believe your goal is to avoid conflict at all cost. That is a losing proposition.

Her AFFAIR and your lies about the source of tension in their home is what will damage them. You are teaching them dishonesty by whitewashing your wife's crimes. Your wife is wrecking their family and they have a RIGHT to know. Don't cover up for your wife. That HARMS your family.

What kind of lies are being told to your children about this? Can you imagine the confusion they feel? Lying to kids is about like rearranging the furniture in the home of a blind person. You are screwing with their reality and it is harmful.

Dr. Bill Harley, clinical psychologist and founder of Marriage Builders, on telling the children:

here



here

here

Dr. Laura show [4:25 min into segment - 5-15-08]

Caller: Husband had an affair with good friend for 2 years. Her H ws one of his "buddies."

Dr. Laura: Do you have minor children?

Caller: Yes, we both do

Dr. Laura: They are willing to hurt your kids? Why are they willing to break up the families?

caller: Basically, they said they are not "happy."

Dr L: So that is the explanation for being willing to hurt their kids? They are doing this to be "happy?"

What can I do to possibly help you?

Caller: I need to know what to tell my kids.

Dr. Laura: THE TRUTH. They are breaking up 2 families because they have decided.....

See, I am not of the school where you stand by and do pretend with kids where this is all ok. Because this is NOT OK.

The most important story is that this is NOT OK. sit down with your husband and tell him you are going to explain to our children, in a factual, non hysterical way I am going to explain to the kids the horrible thing you are doing to destroy their family. That you are "not happy" is not sufficient reason to destroy 2 families and I am going to make this clear to them because I want them to grow up understanding this is WRONG.

That is my advice. And i think everybody should be clear this is selfish behavior that is WRONG, vows were made.

Not being "happy" is something you work to turnaround, not something you destroy a family over. If both of these people were to hear this was going to happen they will have second thoughts.

DO not think for a moment you are doing wrong by telling your children this. It is your moral obligation to teach them right from wrong. EVEN when it demonstrates a parent has done wrong. The parent cannot be whitewashed and get away with that - THAT IS WRONG and that does not teach the children

I really hope alot of people hear this. Alot of ppl want to whitewash what they are doing. Kids should know that is your attitude.

But to tell the custodial parent: hey don't make me look bad for my own selfish gain is ABSURD! and is EVIL! We are going to make wrong seem ok. Kids will lose any sense of right and wrong. Kids will be taught that anything is ok as long as it makes me "happy." Kids lose any sense of right or wrong. "well, it makes me happy to use drugs" when I am 12 It makes me "happy" to get on my knees and give 4 6th graders oral sex. That is what they teach their kids.

This is what happens when you whitewash wrongdoing to make no body feel bad which is why I get called MEAN. I get called mean because I say the truth. "Its MEAN to say something is right or wrong; its mean to make somebody feel bad!" Its MEAN to say the truth. People get shut down when they get called "judgmental" when they say the truth. The intent is to shut you down. Well, I don't shut up. Kids don't learn important truths when they allow others to shut them down. We don't help our children when we don't say the truth and support them in saying what is right and wrong.

Hey Sad Dad 1972-
I am a very new poster here. I discovered my husband's ER 5 DAYS IN. If I had exposed that VERY DAY, I may not be in the giant nightmare mess that I am in now. (Four months later, full blown SR + In love) She is telling you she loves him. You have a MAJOR problem. Everyone must know. NOW.

DON'T WAIT.

YOU WILL MAKE HER MAD. DO IT ANYWAY. Don't make the same mistake I did.
Also...Tell your children. You DO NOT want to lie to them. They must have one parent to use good judgement that they can trust. Looking at their ages they MUST KNOW that something is really wrong. They will think it has to do with them. You don't want that.
Good Luck.

No, it's her actions that will damage their view of her. That's on her for slutting around, not on you for exposing her in an effort to end that awful behavior.

Dude, why are you bending over so far backward to avoid placing responsibility on her? How naive can you BE, realizing that they've met at hotels twice (that YOU know about) and you still won't accept this is a full-blown affair?

Sad Dad, exposing the affair to your kids may well be the grease you need to derail this thing. It's one thing for an adult to be unfaithful to their spouse. It's another thing when they are forced to look into the eyes of their children and see the hurt there.

Sad,

I told you last week what was going on and you refused to hear me out.

Your kids need to be told the truth and you need to quit ENABLING this affair, for that is what you are doing.

Listen, women want men who are strong in heart, strong in love, and strong in convictions. You're being weak.

Women don't want the characteristic of "weak" in their men. Maybe it's a primal thing, but it is what it is. Personally, if I found my spouse in the hotel room with the op/ho, she'd have had a taste of "handburger" or else she would have been scared so badly to get the hell out of dodge, that she'd never ever want to do that again.

Why you aren't going to expose the affair to the omw is beyond me. Listen. I told you that if he were a single guy, he would have already brought her to his rutting lair a long time ago. The sheer fact is they meet at a hotel tells that both are married.

You can beat this and save your family but you gotta quit doing this.

SAD,

Big time gaslighting - dont believe for one minute this hasnt gone further. You were handed more proof than most BH get of an ongoing affair. Not to mention meeting the OM face to face - good grief - I could not have help myself from [censored] slapping that POSOm across the parkinglot.

You need to take this down to the personal level. This POS is intruding into your marriage and most importantly your kids future properity and mential health.be a man - be a husband and father - and do everything under your power to bust this non-sense. Kill this affair and once that is done - fix the marriage.. Start exposing now ot OMW, family coworkers - get information on this OM - get a background check.

Report back on any findings so the gang here can help sort thru the crap and guide thru the next steps. First thing is to expose.

BTW - kids need to know what issues aer effecting them. They already know there is an issue but they need to know who this POSOM is whenever the WW introduces her new man to her kids. Trust me that is next on the WW agenda.

You have been handed a lot of good advice from folks who have been there.

When you have time - listen to the radio archives - very good information - I have listened to 80% and slowing working my way - read the articles - its a valuable free resource that is rare. Its a gift.

OK...what a difference the last few weeks have made for me.

First, I'm sorry to have doubted the vets on here for their wise comments. I've been in a fog too I believe.

Update.
Following my posting on 5/7/2011, we have been busy with recreational activities, but we have a lot of work still to be done and I'm not sure where to go from here.

On 5/7/2011, we attended a local MLB game together as that has always been one of our recreational activities. We are big fans. I thought it would be a good Mother's day surprise for her. It was and we had a good time together. Then on Mother's day, I had made arrangements to have her parents come to our house to lunch, that I prepared which would allow my WW to spend time with her mother. Everything went well there also. I took off the next day, Monday, so I could take her to a dentist appointment and then we could spend the day together.

On Tue, the 12th she came home 3 hours late from work, explaining she had again broke things off with him to work on us once more. She was upset, we got into an arguement and then she left, returning home a couple hours later in a decent mood. She explained she was with her female co-worker and had just neto her. I did verify this in person as they were sitting at the restuarant they usually frequent.

Somewhere around the 18th this co-worker and my WW began large amounts of cell phone calls and text messages to which I later learned her co-worker was relaying information between the OM and my WW.

So, I'm stuck here once more. I'm asking for help as I've been snooping and heard converations between this co-worker and my WW and the co-worker is encouraging and sometimes pushing my WW to continue this A.

My WW and have had numerous discussions and during one this weekend she stated she didn't believe she had "a way out other than divorce". I asked she meant and she stated "a way out of the situation because of all the people impacted" currently. I explained we can work on it together and that I can offer a way for her to stay.

Dude welcome back here. Many leave some come back when faced with hard choices and experienced sometimes firm hands. We are the crap o meters on wayard garble.
The fact still remains until you EXPOSE and kill this A your M doesn't have a snow balls chance in the oven.
All this other "a way out" Crap is a way-wards babble right out of the Way-Wards handbook.
On Tue, the 12th she came home 3 hours late from work Do what? She had contact again. Broke it off? That's your Job!
Make her quit her job after you Blow it up with exposure..
If you want to save your M you had better act quickly.

Are you ready to try and save your M?

Yes, I am ready to save my marriage.

She got off work at 5:00pm, then had lunch with her mother (who is pushing her to stay) and she took her co-worker with her I believe to use as a shield. She took her co-worker back to work at 6:00pm and then promptly called him to break it off. She then came home at 7:55pm.

Are we required to type out our posts again or can you just read what we already wrote and put together a plan?

I can read and put together a plan from your posts. I will research the OM and begin exposure of him and working Plan A. Should I also expose her again more broadly?

Expose her "AGAIN?" When did you expose to the OM's wife? Your children? Have you confronted the OM?

I would DEMAND that she end contact with the OM and this losertard coworker. She is destructive to your marriage has to go. No more taking that loser to work or going out. What you should be telling your wife AFTER YOU EXPOSE THE AFFAIR, is that if she doesn't lose the OM and her stupid, scumbag friend, is that she needs to pack up leave because this will lead to divorce.

See, your wife KNOWS you are so desperate and needy that you won't lift a finger to stop her. As such, she has NO MOTIVATION to stop her abuse. If you want to save your marriage, you are going to have to give her that motivation and RAISE THE BAR IN A SERIOUS WAY.

You need to show your wife that you are serious about your marriage, because up til now you have NOT. Your complacence has reflected a lack of caring for your marriage. Nothing will change until that changes.

Have you told your kids yet?

Also, have you exposed to the OM's parents and family? If my son were acting so trashy, you can bet I would be intervening real quick. Telling the OM's parents will ruin the future of the affair because your wife will be too embarrassed to show her face.

I did expose my WW, but I have not determined if the OM is married or not, I will research it and then expose to her, the children and I will confront the OM.

When confronting the OM, are you saying confront via phone or in person?

Good man!! I would most certainly confront the OM in person. Leave your pistol in the car. [if you wear a holster, you can keep that on] You might want to bring a GREAT BIG FRIEND with you in case you have the urge to punch him out. Your friend can hold you back.

I would also get the name of the OM's parents and expose to them. Do you have that?

Yes, I have that, but i'm not sure his white trash family would care either way. I will still expose to them though.

I would gather all this contact information and plan one big exposure on the SAME DAY. Perhaps you could drive to the OM's house on Friday, expose to his wife and then drive to a coffee shop and start making phone calls until you are done. When you get home, sit your kids down and give them all the facts about your wife's affair.

Once you are all done, I would have a serious talk with your wife and let her know how it is going to be, that if she doesn't end contact with the OM and her trashy friend that this will lead to divorce.

Sad Dad, you don't need to expose your WW's affair to her - she already knows she's having one. I assume what you're trying to say is that you confronted her with the details of what you knew, yes?

Get this loser's name. Let us know when you have it and then we'll help you with info on how to track down his wife and family.

Please listen to what we're saying this time, okay?

I have the OM's name and where he lives. I don't have where he works or if he's still married or not.

Have you checked to see if OM has a FB page? If it's public you could check the marital status.

Have you checked sites like spokeo and intelius?

Also if you can get the phone number, you can block your phone using *67 and see if a woman answers or what names are on the answering machine announcment.

I'd say today is a good day for a nice little country drive. Or city drive. Or whatever drive is required that will land you in front of loser's house. Knock on the door. If a woman answers it's probably his wife. Have a chat.

If there's no answer, listen. Is there a dog barking inside? Good. That means someone will have to come home sooner, rather than later, to let the dog out. Look around. Do you see any toys in the back yard? Bikes leaning against the house? An above ground kiddy pool? These are obvious signs of children, who may well be school-aged. Go kill a few hours or however long it takes for school to let out, then go back and knock again. Ask them if their mommy is home.

Sad, we've had posters here who have managed to expose to the other BS when they lived in different states. Surely you can take a short car ride?

You may be able to find out if he is still married and to whom by exposing to their mutual friends. If this is an old boyfriend of your WWs, they should have some mutual friends. Have you checked classmates.com?

When you expose to his parents ask them to pass your info onto his W or girlfriend and leave your contact info.

I would also give the affair-supporter-friend a cease and desist call.

You know that you need to expose to everyone at the same time, right? And yes, you re-expose to everyone you have exposed to. Time is really of the essence here, you need to do this today.

My H's A ended the day I nuclearly exposed. You can be done with this drama today if you do this properly.

His house is only 16 minutes from my work place and I just drove by while on lunch. His truck was there and there was a kids playset and a kids bike by the steps. The place is such a white trash palace just off the highway, down from an industrial area. We live in a nice suburb of a small town an hour and twenty minutes away in another state. Why the hell would she stoop SO low?

Does anyone have any ideas about how to get rid of the toxic friend? My WW told me (about 8 months ago) her friend (let's call her Amy) has been chatting with another man and couldn't get rid of him, but looking back I believe Amy only corrupted my WW.

Though this is an ex-boyfriend of my WW, they did not go to school together. He was only visiting some relatives in the area when they met and then continued dating for about a year.

Also, he does not "do" computers in any way. I've researched it and haven't found anything and my WW stated it was one of the things she found attractive about him since I'm a bit of techie.

Okay, Sad, where there are kids, there's a mom. Did you say you've got the house telephone number? You need to call her.

I do not have the home #, just his cell phone#.

Did you knock on the door and tell the wife about the affair???

No one answered the door. I took some photos and then went back to work.

Make a plan to go back on Saturday morning, do not give up , persistence will pay off.

What if the OM answers the door? Should I confront and drop the bomb that my high maintenance WW (for him, it's within our means)will not be coming with any $$?

I have listened to her Fog-babble for weeks now and it's been spot on from what I've read on here. Things have changed a bit in the last few days, but I'm concerned it's just a ruse to get me to relax. I'm not sure.

Ask to speak to his wife. Have you exposed to the OM's parents yet?

Please take it from me...I learned the hard way, and I still didn't do it perfectly...expose to OMW / family.

In my case OM's mommy called me -- we spoke for @ 6 minutes -- and she was not happy and wanted NOTHING to do with my W...even asked if she was in counseling and accused her of "leading on" her son...OMs sisters and brother weren't too happy, either, I bet...

AND, as Mel reminded me, I think, at the very least this put the kabosh on W being 'welcomed' into OMs family -- in essence, the A is dead without 'support' for the relationship...(I think she joked about W not being invited to the family picnic).

Expose. It works.

It's called affairing-down. All waywards do it. Stick around long enough and you will see it in every.single.affair.

It is not uncommon. When they de-fog they are usually mortified at who they had an A with. My H is so embarrassed he has actually turned bright red when talking about this aspect.