Marriage Builders
My wife and I have been married for 18 years and together for 20. We have two daugthers, 13 and 9. About 3 years ago we were having some problems and I moved out for about 3 weeks. During this time I had an affair with a coworker that lasted a couple of weeks. My problems were mostly caused my own doing. I told my wife everything and she took me back.

About two years ago I found out my wife had been talking all of the time on the phone with the husband of a couple we were friends with. I confronted them and they said they were just friends and they were able to discuss each others problems. I know he likes to talk for hours on the phone (and is more like a girlfriend) and talks with several other women like that. I meant mention, neither of them work, but his wife does as do I.

I found out last week that they have been having an affair for almost two years. She seems to think they were in love. He has now turned on her 100% and makes it look like she was more of the agressor, but I know he is a lying sack of sh*t. He has really thrown her under the bus. This is a personality disorder he has and he has ruined most relationships he has ever had...it is either love or hate.

I have dealt with her being emotionally not all there for me the last two years and I really want to make this work. I have been faithful for the three years since i did this, and that was the only time. I regret what I did everyday.

My problem is this...i am smothering her right now and I don't know how to not do that. I keep checking the phone records to see if she is texting him and if so I ask to see them. She has shown me all but one, and he is rarely replying and when he does he is kind of hateful to her. I have also talked to him on the phone a couple of times and he is trying to make it sound like he was in it for the sex and because she pumped his ego...and yes I am ready to do some major physical harm to him...and he worries about that because he is not real big and physical, and I am about 6'3" and 260 lbs...he has apparently always been afraid of me. But what I am doing when I talk to him is just trying to get some information...and they say keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

All of this came about 7 days ago. He is supposedly going to try and work things out with his wife, but my wife says she needs to get over this before we can work on "us". I know she feels betrayed and is pissed that she got duped. Everyone that meets him thinks he is an ******. I am trying to not smother her the last few days, but it has been hard. She said she would not ever go back to him because she could not trust him...plus he is pretty vindictive. I tell her they lived in a fantasy world every day...neither of them worked, did not have any worries when they were together, etc. Maybe that is why they never really concocted a plan for their future together.

I know I have neglected alot of my wifes needs emotionally the last three years being caught up in my own problems.

What do I do now? I am still at home, she still says I love you like before...but when I go to work I start to worry and keep going online and checking the phone records for texts, and texting her constantly...she tells me to quit and I can't. I gave my phone to a coworker today and have not checked the phone records. She told me she will tell me if she contacts him...she has been more than honest since this all came out (more details than I needed to hear). She has also been an honest person for the 20 years we have been together and gets furious with people who lie.

I am reading the book Her Needs, His Needs now, and I can see that the emotional needs that I thought that were important are not the same as hers...which according to the book is the case with most marriages...and can be fixed pretty easy.

She says there is no way they would ever be together again, but she is looking for closure and I think she is furious that he turned on her. Might also say that he has had an obsession for her since we met about three years ago, and I think he regards her as an object.

And by the way, if I do see him, which I probably will because our kids go to school together...I want to tear him limb from limb but hopefully I wonlt.

Looking for advice.

Thanks
You might want to click notify and have this moved to Surviving an affair - sorry for your situation!
My wife and I have been married for 18 years and together for 20. We have two daugthers, 13 and 9. About 3 years ago we were having some problems and I moved out for about 3 weeks. During this time I had an affair with a coworker that lasted a couple of weeks. My problems were mostly caused my own doing. I told my wife everything and she took me back.

About two years ago I found out my wife had been talking all of the time on the phone with the husband of a couple we were friends with. I confronted them and they said they were just friends and they were able to discuss each others problems. I know he likes to talk for hours on the phone (and is more like a girlfriend) and talks with several other women like that. I meant mention, neither of them work, but his wife does as do I.

I found out last week that they have been having an affair for almost two years. She seems to think they were in love. He has now turned on her 100% and makes it look like she was more of the agressor, but I know he is a lying sack of sh*t. He has really thrown her under the bus. This is a personality disorder he has and he has ruined most relationships he has ever had...it is either love or hate.

I have dealt with her being emotionally not all there for me the last two years and I really want to make this work. I have been faithful for the three years since i did this, and that was the only time. I regret what I did everyday.

My problem is this...i am smothering her right now and I don't know how to not do that. I keep checking the phone records to see if she is texting him and if so I ask to see them. She has shown me all but one, and he is rarely replying and when he does he is kind of hateful to her. I have also talked to him on the phone a couple of times and he is trying to make it sound like he was in it for the sex and because she pumped his ego...and yes I am ready to do some major physical harm to him...and he worries about that because he is not real big and physical, and I am about 6'3" and 260 lbs...he has apparently always been afraid of me. But what I am doing when I talk to him is just trying to get some information...and they say keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

All of this came about 7 days ago. He is supposedly going to try and work things out with his wife, but my wife says she needs to get over this before we can work on "us". I know she feels betrayed and is pissed that she got duped. Everyone that meets him thinks he is an ******. I am trying to not smother her the last few days, but it has been hard. She said she would not ever go back to him because she could not trust him...plus he is pretty vindictive. I tell her they lived in a fantasy world every day...neither of them worked, did not have any worries when they were together, etc. Maybe that is why they never really concocted a plan for their future together.

I know I have neglected alot of my wifes needs emotionally the last three years being caught up in my own problems.

What do I do now? I am still at home, she still says I love you like before...but when I go to work I start to worry and keep going online and checking the phone records for texts, and texting her constantly...she tells me to quit and I can't. I gave my phone to a coworker today and have not checked the phone records. She told me she will tell me if she contacts him...she has been more than honest since this all came out (more details than I needed to hear). She has also been an honest person for the 20 years we have been together and gets furious with people who lie.

I am reading the book Her Needs, His Needs now, and I can see that the emotional needs that I thought that were important are not the same as hers...which according to the book is the case with most marriages...and can be fixed pretty easy.

She says there is no way they would ever be together again, but she is looking for closure and I think she is furious that he turned on her. Might also say that he has had an obsession for her since we met about three years ago, and I think he regards her as an object.

And by the way, if I do see him, which I probably will because our kids go to school together...I want to tear him limb from limb but hopefully I wonlt.

Looking for advice.

Thanks
Does his wife know everything about the affair? Has the affair been exposed to your kids and family members?
His wife does know about it and they are "supposedly" going to try and work things out. This is a family we have gone on vacations with, etc. As I said before, he does not work. His wife is a teacher, and her family has money and provides them support. This guy has always rubbed me the wrong way and always seems to end up bitter enemies with anyone he deals with. He is always coming up with some Internet business that never does anything, and he is enemies with everyone of his former partners. And he can really lay on the BS. I think my wife felt sorry for him since most people think he is an a-hole and she said that "no one knows him like I do". I am trying to convince her that they were living in a fantasy world, but I don't think she wants to admit that she was duped. She always prides herself on being such a good judge of character. Have not told our kids yet. They told their oldest daughter, but then again they share everything with their kids...even many things their kids have no business knowing.
Yes, your children need to know.

And ~ ready for this one? ~ you need to move. Immediately, if not sooner. You need to put as much distance as is humanly possible between your W and her AP. Are you neighbors or just live in the same town? Not that it matters, you will need to move and have ZERO contact with this family. Your children cannot even be friends, unfortunately.

We have heard all of the excuses, so don't bother. We moved out of state to hide from the OW in our situation. Where there is a will, there is a way.

If you want to save your M, this NC is the very first step.
Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
she said that "no one knows him like I do".

The correct response to this is, "Actually, you are the only one that doesn't know him."
Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
His wife does know about it and they are "supposedly" going to try and work things out. This is a family we have gone on vacations with, etc. As I said before, he does not work. His wife is a teacher, and her family has money and provides them support. This guy has always rubbed me the wrong way and always seems to end up bitter enemies with anyone he deals with. He is always coming up with some Internet business that never does anything, and he is enemies with everyone of his former partners. And he can really lay on the BS. I think my wife felt sorry for him since most people think he is an a-hole and she said that "no one knows him like I do". I am trying to convince her that they were living in a fantasy world, but I don't think she wants to admit that she was duped. She always prides herself on being such a good judge of character. Have not told our kids yet. They told their oldest daughter, but then again they share everything with their kids...even many things their kids have no business knowing.

First off, this most certainly is your kids business since it affects their family. Whitewashing the bad behavior of your wife does not help your children and harms your wife. Your kids should be told TODAY. ALONE, by you. They have every right to know the truth..

Additionally, I would tell everyone in your family. Exposure is like chemotherapy to cancer. It ruins the fantasy aspect of the affair.
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My problem is this...i am smothering her right now and I don't know how to not do that. I keep checking the phone records to see if she is texting him and if so I ask to see them. She has shown me all but one, and he is rarely replying and when he does he is kind of hateful to her. I have also talked to him on the phone a couple of times and he is trying to make it sound like he was in it for the sex and because she pumped his ego...and yes I am ready to do some major physical harm to him...and he worries about that because he is not real big and physical, and I am about 6'3" and 260 lbs...he has apparently always been afraid of me. But what I am doing when I talk to him is just trying to get some information...and they say keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

I would put a stop to her texting even if you have to cancel the phone. Do what you have to do and most certainly continue snooping. When you find evidence of contact, contact the OMW but you should DEMAND that she end all contact. Does the OMW know she is still chasing her H? Has she confronted your wife herself? That might be helpful if she did.

Originally Posted by From the new book by Dr. Harley Effective Marriage Counseling pg 94:
"Granted, there are situations when demands may be necessary in marriage. During a spouse's affair, for example, I recommend that the betrayed spouse demand there be no contact with the lover. If there is continued contact, separation or even divorce would be the logical consequence. While normally demands don't work, in this case there are no reasonable alternatives because thoughtful requests are even less likely to separate lovers."
Dr. Harley on telling the children:

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The same can be said about telling children about an affair. My experience with the positive outcomes of hundreds of families where an affair has been exposed to children has led me to encourage a betrayed spouse not to fear such exposure. In fact, to mislead children, giving other false explanations as to why their parents are not getting along, causes children to be very confused. When they finally discover the truth, it sets an example to children that dishonesty is sometimes acceptable, making them the judge of when that might occur.

An affair is an attack on children as well as the betrayed spouse. And it's true that children are deeply affected by this form of irresponsible behavior. But it's the act of infidelity that causes children to suffer, not the exposure of it. Facts point us toward solutions. Illusion leads us astray. That's true for children as well as adults.
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Q: So, you do suggest telling our 10 year old son? Is this more than he can handle? He never saw any real unhappiness as my husband and I had a very low conflict marriage. I have been protecting our son from this truth. He still has hope that his dad is going to come home.
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A: As for your son, the truth will come out eventually, even if you get back together again. And your son won't be emotionally crippled if he hears the truth. It's lies and deception that cripple children. He should know that your husband is choosing his lover over his son's mother. It's a fact. He's willing to ruin a family unit all for what.

When I first started recommending openness about an affair, I wasn't sure what would happen. But I did it because I knew it was the right thing to do. Now I know that for most couples it marks the beginning of recovery.


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The reason that children should know about an affair is that exposing it to the light of day (letting everyone know), helps give the unfaithful spouse a dose of reality. An affair thrives on illusion, and whatever a betrayed spouse can do to eliminate the illusion is justifiable. Mold doesn't grow well in sunlight.
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2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).
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My basic approach to life is that radical honesty is valuable on many different dimensions. It keeps us out of trouble, it helps others understand us, and it helps others avoid the same mistakes we have made. Letting your children know the details of your husband's affair would help them in all three areas.

The more your children know about your husband's affair, the more careful he will be to avoid them in the future.

The more your children know about his affair, the more they will understand what you are going through in your recovery (by the way, you are doing very well -- keep up the good work!).

Being radically honest about your husband's affair with your children would also help them avoid affairs themselves. How it happened and how could it have been prevented is a great object lesson for children. I learned that I was vulnerable for an affair when I learned about my grandfather's affairs. The extraordinary precautions I've taken were directly related to what I learned about him.

It's the approach I've always taken, and while it's difficult, especially for the WS, there's much more upside to it than downside.

I am not sure if his wife knows they habe obeen on contact. But he has not really replied, but that is not out of character for him . My wife cant get over the.fact that he is making it seem like something so not important, and that is pissing her off. She has trouble letting things like that go. I habe told her that if she contacts hom or he contacts her, then i want to see it..and i can see the phone activity so i will know. He says he wants nothong to do with her and wants to fix his marriage. Remember, he does not work and my wife jas been a stay at home mom for 13 years. Drops kids off in the morning then has 7 hours of free time. I have never trusted him. I think he is getting scared at the thought of "reality"...no jobs for either of them, five kids between both families, bills to pay without jobs...all the crap i deal with on a day to day basis working not one but TWO jobs. He has no education or career to fall back on. I have an MBA so i can usually find something if i ever lost my job. And here i am begging her to stay. The biggest problem is i did not give her the attention and moral support she was looking for...and i see that now...and that is more important to her than a fancy car or house.

Thanks for all of your support...just looking for hope.
Please click the "carrot/stick" link in my sig line ...
hurtinfl123,

Sorry you are here, but I would strongly encourage you to read the articles on this site. I would also like to suggest that you are not at fault for her affair anymore than she is at fault for your affair.

It is hard to have a good relationship when your spouse is in an affair, and it is unlikely that the rocky last two years had much to do with you and a lot to do with your W.

I hope that you have exposed the OM to his W. Do not take the word of the OM or your W that she knows or that she knows everything. Call her and talk to her yourself.

Your W may have been in love/lust/heat/running. What are you going to do if that is true? What do you really want?

Your marriage was poor before your affair, your affair made it worse. Her affair then added more problems and now she thinks she loves OM.

Do either of you really want to remain married? If you do there are ways using the tools on this site to do that, but you cannot force her to do anything anymore than she can force you.

Your W has lied to you for over 2 years and while this is all new to you, the lies are going to be harder to get over than the sex. What is your plan? What is your W's plan?

You both really need to rethink what marriage is about, and you both need to develop better coping skills. Having an affair is not effective in dealing with marriage problems. You both need to improve your communications skills and with that learn how to communicate your needs and your goals for your life.

There is so much to say, but first read the artilces, here. Your W is in withdrawal. Harley likens an affair to someone becoming addicted to drugs. To stop the addiction no contact is required and that means by any method, NO CONTACT WITH OM. Then she will go through withdrawal and it could last a month of more depending on the depth of the affair.

Read, prepare, come and talk, and then develop a plan.

God Bless,

JL
We talked for quite a while tonight. It has been a week since everything came out, and every day has been different. She is tellimg me tonight that although she realizes her affair is over, she has realized that she there is much more happiness out there, and she does not know if she will be able to be satisfied with anything less. Will this pass? Will she ever realize she was living in a fantasy world, and that reality is not always perfect. She says she needs to figure this out before we move on with her and i. Remember, i did this 3 years ago and i wanted nothimg to do with her for about three weeks. She wants me to just let her try to figure things out before we get to discussing her and i.

Just as confused as ever...ugh. But i know i put her through at least this much 3 years ago. I think she is stronger than me emotionally.
Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
I found out last week that they have been having an affair for almost two years. She seems to think they were in love. He has now turned on her 100% and makes it look like she was more of the agressor, but I know he is a lying sack of sh*t. He has really thrown her under the bus. This is a personality disorder he has and he has ruined most relationships he has ever had...it is either love or hate.

I have dealt with her being emotionally not all there for me the last two years and I really want to make this work. I have been faithful for the three years since i did this, and that was the only time. I regret what I did everyday.

That is a good start. Now you need to start meeting her emotional needs. There is a questionnaire on the site you can ask her to fill out. While you are there, fill one out too. I would suggest you also order surviving an affair.



Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
My problem is this...i am smothering her right now and I don't know how to not do that. I keep checking the phone records to see if she is texting him and if so I ask to see them. She has shown me all but one, and he is rarely replying and when he does he is kind of hateful to her. I have also talked to him on the phone a couple of times and he is trying to make it sound like he was in it for the sex and because she pumped his ego...and yes I am ready to do some major physical harm to him...and he worries about that because he is not real big and physical, and I am about 6'3" and 260 lbs...he has apparently always been afraid of me. But what I am doing when I talk to him is just trying to get some information...and they say keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

I would suggest not spamming her with texts. Checking phone records is not enough either. There is a forum about spy software and hardware that would benefit you. As for keeping your enemies closer, think about Julius Caesar. it didn't end well between he and Brutus. Also, having been in your shoes, I would suggest that you not give in to pounding him like he deserves. I did it and truthfully it only serves to fuel your anger more. Keep him scared though. it may be the one thing that slows or prevents contact. Both the OMs were terrified of me, the 2nd used to torture my fww telling her he would "rat them out" if she didn't do this or that. You need to *maybe* have one sit down with him (I would suggest a public place if you feel the urge to wring his neck), talk calmly and get whatever info you feel you need and break all contact yourself. And tell his wife they are still in contact.

Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
All of this came about 7 days ago. He is supposedly going to try and work things out with his wife, but my wife says she needs to get over this before we can work on "us". I know she feels betrayed and is pissed that she got duped.

Of course she does. He is busting her fantasy.

Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
What do I do now? I am still at home, she still says I love you like before...but when I go to work I start to worry and keep going online and checking the phone records for texts, and texting her constantly...she tells me to quit and I can't. I gave my phone to a coworker today and have not checked the phone records. She told me she will tell me if she contacts him...she has been more than honest since this all came out (more details than I needed to hear). She has also been an honest person for the 20 years we have been together and gets furious with people who lie.

I am reading the book Her Needs, His Needs now, and I can see that the emotional needs that I thought that were important are not the same as hers...which according to the book is the case with most marriages...and can be fixed pretty easy.

She says there is no way they would ever be together again, but she is looking for closure and I think she is furious that he turned on her. Might also say that he has had an obsession for her since we met about three years ago, and I think he regards her as an object.

And by the way, if I do see him, which I probably will because our kids go to school together...I want to tear him limb from limb but hopefully I wonlt.

Looking for advice.

Thanks

Beware! She may not be looking for closure. She may be trying to get him back. Objectifying is part of the affair. They both did it. best thing to do is to start reading the articles on the site while you wait for your copy of SAA to arrive.

CV
Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
We talked for quite a while tonight. It has been a week since everything came out, and every day has been different. She is tellimg me tonight that although she realizes her affair is over, she has realized that she there is much more happiness out there, and she does not know if she will be able to be satisfied with anything less. Will this pass? Will she ever realize she was living in a fantasy world, and that reality is not always perfect. She says she needs to figure this out before we move on with her and i. Remember, i did this 3 years ago and i wanted nothimg to do with her for about three weeks. She wants me to just let her try to figure things out before we get to discussing her and i.

Just as confused as ever...ugh. But i know i put her through at least this much 3 years ago. I think she is stronger than me emotionally.

If she was stronger than you, she wouldn't have cheated. She is in what everyone here calls a "fog". She is still caught in that fantasy and hasn't been gripped by the truth of what she's done yet. The fact is, divorce brings misery. She thinks that there is some benefit to the affair.

Hurtin, I feel for you. I was in your shoes 3 years ago. You are in the middle of fallout from a nuclear bomb that just went off 7 days ago. Remember something, we have a saying here at the voyager household... 3 rights make a left, but 2 wrongs never make a right. Your A is NOT an excuse for what she did and is still doing. Your sin was yours, but hers is hers.

A bit of man-to-man advice... Get rid of her phone. Take charge of your household. It won't be easy, she will fight you on it. I suspect since your affair, you have probably struggled feeling like you could do this. but you have to set some clear boundaries to protect her and yourself. Otherwise, you will never find any peace or stability. Start by cancelling her phone. Break contact, make her break it too. completely, No e-mail contact, texts, phone, facebook, nada...

Stand strong, there's a lot of good people here who can help.

CV
Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
About two years ago I found out my wife had been talking all of the time on the phone with the husband of a couple we were friends with. I confronted them and they said they were just friends and they were able to discuss each others problems. I know he likes to talk for hours on the phone (and is more like a girlfriend) and talks with several other women like that. I meant mention, neither of them work, but his wife does as do I.

This should have been a big red flag 2 years ago. How could you believe this lie?

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I found out last week that they have been having an affair for almost two years. She seems to think they were in love. He has now turned on her 100% and makes it look like she was more of the agressor, but I know he is a lying sack of sh*t. He has really thrown her under the bus. This is a personality disorder he has and he has ruined most relationships he has ever had...it is either love or hate.

Hate to break this to you but your wife is every bit the lying 'sack' that the OM is. She is every bit complicit and is in fact more to blame than the OM. The OM made NO promises to you that he would protect your marriage and be faithful to you till death parts you.

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I have dealt with her being emotionally not all there for me the last two years and I really want to make this work. I have been faithful for the three years since i did this, and that was the only time. I regret what I did everyday.


Well she wasn't there with you because she was having an affair. Again - with your first paragraph I'm surprised this went on so long.

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My problem is this...i am smothering her right now and I don't know how to not do that. I keep checking the phone records to see if she is texting him and if so I ask to see them. She has shown me all but one, and he is rarely replying and when he does he is kind of hateful to her. I have also talked to him on the phone a couple of times and he is trying to make it sound like he was in it for the sex and because she pumped his ego...and yes I am ready to do some major physical harm to him...and he worries about that because he is not real big and physical, and I am about 6'3" and 260 lbs...he has apparently always been afraid of me. But what I am doing when I talk to him is just trying to get some information...and they say keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

If all the main facts of the affair are out, I recommend you BOTH (not just your wife) go NC with the OM. You are and will continue to obsess about the OM and talking to him only makes it worse for you. There is nothing further to be gained by you talking to him. Your Wife MUST be in 100% verifiable NO CONTACT with this OM. That means ANY kind of contact including text messages. Until she goes NC, she will not be in withdrawal at all (contrary to what JL said your wife is not in withdrawal because she is still in contact). The OM's attitude to your wife could be a smoke screen actually and they could even have a secret cell phone or other way of contacting each other. You should be snooping more right now, not less. Just as a matter of interest, do you have ANY contact with your other woman? When your wife goes 100% no contact, I would expect her to be in withdrawal for some months. A lot of emotional investment goes into a long 2 year affair and that will take a significant amount of time to break.

Your wife is also probably telling you what you want to hear right now - she doesn't hate OM she is craving for him. Duped? I think it's an act for your benefit.

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All of this came about 7 days ago. He is supposedly going to try and work things out with his wife, but my wife says she needs to get over this before we can work on "us". I know she feels betrayed and is pissed that she got duped. Everyone that meets him thinks he is an ******. I am trying to not smother her the last few days, but it has been hard. She said she would not ever go back to him because she could not trust him...plus he is pretty vindictive. I tell her they lived in a fantasy world every day...neither of them worked, did not have any worries when they were together, etc. Maybe that is why they never really concocted a plan for their future together.

A fair amount of wishful thinking and hurt on your part here at the moment which is understandable.

What you must do right now is make sure everyone knows your wife is having an affair and that you want their help and support to save your marriage. This means friends, relatives, neighbours, pastors, parents etc. (on the OM's side as well as yours) If you want to keep this quiet the affair will go on. Many affairs end with a good dose of exposure. This will of course infuriate your wife but it can't be avoided.

Next your wife must go 100% no contact with the OM and it must be verified by you. Until she goes NC, the affair is kept alive in her mind and every contact (even an unanswered text message) resets the withdrawal clock back to zero again. There is no real recovery until she gets through withdrawal.

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I know I have neglected alot of my wifes needs emotionally the last three years being caught up in my own problems.

Pep's Carrot and Stick will help you with this.

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What do I do now? I am still at home, she still says I love you like before...but when I go to work I start to worry and keep going online and checking the phone records for texts, and texting her constantly...she tells me to quit and I can't. I gave my phone to a coworker today and have not checked the phone records. She told me she will tell me if she contacts him...she has been more than honest since this all came out (more details than I needed to hear). She has also been an honest person for the 20 years we have been together and gets furious with people who lie.

She's probably still hiding things from you. She will hide contact.

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I am reading the book Her Needs, His Needs now, and I can see that the emotional needs that I thought that were important are not the same as hers...which according to the book is the case with most marriages...and can be fixed pretty easy.

Define easy...... This is a long process to recover from the affair. That book is a good start and will help you build romantic love in your marriage.

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She says there is no way they would ever be together again, but she is looking for closure and I think she is furious that he turned on her. Might also say that he has had an obsession for her since we met about three years ago, and I think he regards her as an object.

Closure means she wants to say good bye (AKA bang him one more time). This is obviously a bad idea. WHo ended the affair? Her or him? Cos they would be together again if they could....

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And by the way, if I do see him, which I probably will because our kids go to school together...I want to tear him limb from limb but hopefully I wonlt.

Hmm. In 5 years time you might still feel like this. But however good you think it might feel - resist it. It's not productive. You in Jail and him with your wife? Um... no.

All the best. Keep posting. I have been where you are now. Some of this may seem harsh but it's the absolute truth!
Man, you are spending WAAAAAAAY too much time focussing on POSOM. Put together a package of all the evidence you have of the affair between your skank-wife and this bottom feeder. send it to OMW "personal, signature required" (using a phony legal-office return address might ensure HE doesn't intercept it) call her in about a week to make sure she got it, and NEVER THINK OF HIM, HIS FEELINGS, HIS NEUROSES, HIS RELATIVE SIZE, HIS FEELINGS ABOUT YOU (really?), HIS SHOE SIZE, OR ANYTHING ELSE, AGAIN.

Your total concentration is to be on your WW, and your joint efforts to repair your relationship. Get her SAA, get her reading the pertinent articles on this site, anbd get started.

Oh, BTW........ twoxfour

That's for implying that your affair had little/nothing to do with your wife's revenge action. It almost certainly did. The fact that WW picked a partner so diametrically opposed to you, thereby rejecting your effect on her self-image, jumps off the page here.

And for the love of God, change the title to "......EX-family friend..."
Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
She has trouble letting things like that go. I habe told her that if she contacts hom or he contacts her, then i want to see it..and i can see the phone activity so i will know.

Why do you want to see it? Seeing it misses the point. You have to STOP THE CONTACT if you want to save your marriage. I would focus on stopping the contact. DEMAND that she stop contacting him. Expose the affair to your kids so she is put in a position of having to explain herself to your kids.

Quote
And here i am begging her to stay. The biggest problem is i did not give her the attention and moral support she was looking for...and i see that now...and that is more important to her than a fancy car or house.

The biggest problem is that she is having an affair, my friend. None of this other stuff you mention will end your marriage. I would stop begging and tell her if she doesn't end contact once and for all, that this will lead to divorce. You need to kill this affair if you want to save your marriage. Make sure everyone knows.
Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
She says there is no way they would ever be together again, but she is looking for closure and I think she is furious that he turned on her. Might also say that he has had an obsession for her since we met about three years ago, and I think he regards her as an object.

She is looking for closure sex. This is an excuse that waywards use to get together and have more sex. Just think how irrational that is? If you are "closing" something do you go have some more? Of course not. If she wanted to close something, she would.............close it. No, she wants to have closure sex and resume the affair. That is all this is about.

You need to get ahold of the OMW and inform her of all this. Step up your snooping!
I have spoken with the OMW and I am very aware that she knows everything...apparently they both tried to end this several times, and the way it ended this time is between a phone call with my wife and the OMW. Apparently the OMW had suspected something and when they were on the phone the OM would not get on the phone and my wife answered the OMW's questions. The OM turned on my wife at that point and started to lie, but she was able to bust him in that and he finely came clean. I have talked to him a couple of times...mainly trying to pump him for information and I do want to keep him scared. I won't do anything to him (at least I hope not).

We talked last night and she is now saying that she has seen how happy she can be, etc. and does not know if that was real, or if she will be satisfied if she can't get that kind of happiness from me, etc.

Will she ever realize that she was in a fantasy world...neither had a job, did not have to worry about any day to day problems with each other...it was like a vacation.

Before I did this same thing three years ago, I went through something traumatic about a year before that when I lost a business, our home and a bunch of other stuff that devastated me. I became lost and took that out on everyone else. My wife told me I needed to see a therapist and I never did. I never forgave myself for what I did with the business and would lash out at others. WHen I left, I told her that I did not love her and I walked out on my wife and kids for about a month.

For the first time since this came out a week ago, I actually felt last night after we talked that there might be some hope for us to try to start over.

I am still lost.
Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
For the first time since this came out a week ago, I actually felt last night after we talked that there might be some hope for us to try to start over.

There will only be hope if she ends contact for life with this OM. That has to happen or this will lead to divorce. I would go to her and tell her this is it. DEMAND that she end contact with him for life. Send him a no contact letter and commit to a plan of recovery. Anything less than that is a death of a thousand cuts that will lead to divorce. Her telling you when she contacts this loser is meaningless. If the alcoholic tells you when he drinks is he sober?

hurt, you need to stand up here and lead your marriage out of this mess. From what you have said here, it is clear that your fogged out wayward wife is in full and complete charge of your marriage and your family. That has to change if you want to make it.

I am reposting what I posted to Shatteredhopes on a another thread.

Set her down and let her know that you will give her an opportunity to EARN YOUR FORGIVENESS. Tell her you will not settle for a loveless marriage and what she has done has caused enormous damage. You will give her a chance to redeem herself. Ask her to send loserboy a no contact letter that is written together and approved by you. [I will post a sample in the next post]

In order for the marriage to recover, certain things have to happen. This is what it will take to keep you interested:

1. end contact for life with the OM

2. complete transparency - cell phone passwords, etc, eliminate the conditions that led to the affair, ie: delete facebook, etc


3. no more opposite sex friendships - no nights apart

4. complete honesty about her affair � passing a polygraph

5. commit to a program of recovery that restores the romantic love in your marriage

Tell her "this is what it will take to keep me in this marriage." Whether your marriage ends up with success or failure will depend almost entirely on her willingness and ability to make radical changes. Her lifestyle must become absolutely transparent, holding nothing back. She is in no position to negotiate when it comes to extraordinary precautions, because those precautions are designed to prevent another affair and help you feel safe.

She must also meet your emotional needs in a way that until now he has failed. Unless she makes a 180 degree turn in his approach to what it means to be a wife, your marriage won't recover, it will be a crippled version of your pre-affair marriage.

Originally Posted by Dr Harley
My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent
here


[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
We talked last night and she is now saying that she has seen how happy she can be, etc. and does not know if that was real, or if she will be satisfied if she can't get that kind of happiness from me, etc.
This is fog babble, ignore it.

Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
Will she ever realize that she was in a fantasy world.
If all contact is ended, took my wife almost a year to finally start to defog.

Almost three years in and only now would I say she is 100% defogged.


The first thing you must do is expose this affair to EVERYONE!
Her parents
Her siblings
Her friends
Your friends your parents
your siblings
Your church
Heck, even the PTA if you need to.

Tell anyone and everyone you interact with that could put any pressure on WW to end the affair. And do it all at once so she does not get a heads up.

The second is do everything you can to stop all and any contact with om.
Have her phone turned of.
Block Facebook from your router.
Cancel her email.
Anything you can do to stop any type of contact.

Third, snoop!
GPS her car.
Hide a few Digital Voice Recorders around the house and in her car.


Things NOT to do.

Do NOT tell her you are going to do any of this, just do it. You do not call your enemy and give them your battle plan, you act without warning.

Do NOT, for any reason leave your house. If she is unhappy being around you, she can leave, not you. The only way you leave your house is via court order.

Do you understand these things?

There needs to be no contact with OM. Your wife needs to write a NC letter to him and you need to mail it.

Read Surviving an Affair asap. Whatever it takes for both of you to know the other isn't cheating (I won't say trust because you can throw that word out the window) needs to be done, if she has to give up her cell phone, change the number, block OM, you should have full access to cell phone records as she should also. Get a keylogger installed on your computer. You can't restore the marriage until you're positive the A has ended and none other has taken it's place.

Did your wife do this in retribution for your A? If so, it didn't help, only compounded things. She may have issues of distrust with you as well. ALL of this needs dealt with.

Careful not to sling all the blame to OM, your wife shares in that blame and beating him up may feel good to you but won't help the situation (and could land you in jail). You also have to share in it as you've contributed to the setting. Continue reading, HNHN, LBs, etc. Do the EN questionnaire and share responses with each other. Full exposure should be done with your family, her family, OM's family and it should be done all at once. If it makes her mad, sobeit...just tell her it's done to protect your marriage and you need everyone to be on board in protecting it.
You can have the marriage she wants and needs but there is a lot of work that needs to go into it first...
1) NC
2) Her getting over OM
3) Working on Plan A

Read, read, read. Post questions, problems here, let experts walk you through this, but LISTEN and HEED what they say!
Well today i feel like we made progress. She has agreed to not contact OM. She is finally starting to do things with some of her friends, which will be good. We did not have any mutual friends with the OM and his wife because he is such an a hole. She went to lunch with her friend today and told her firend that she was right and OM is a real ahole.

At least she has finally agreed to stop contacton OM.

Progress i think.

Thanks for all of your help and support


Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
Well today i feel like we made progress. She has agreed to not contact OM. She is finally starting to do things with some of her friends, which will be good. We did not have any mutual friends with the OM and his wife because he is such an a hole. She went to lunch with her friend today and told her firend that she was right and OM is a real ahole.

At least she has finally agreed to stop contacton OM.

Progress i think.

Thanks for all of your help and support
Understand that you still need to monitor her. This is very early in recovery - you need to snoop to make sure you're safe.
I realize it has been a week since the discovery, but it took me at least three weeks when i did this three years ago before i would think about staying together...i kept saying i had to find myself. She is still saying that a little, but not as much.

I told her today that if she kept in contact with him, even unanswered texts, i could not stay and basically gave her an ultimatum...she said she would not contact him. I am worried what happens if his wife kicks him to the curb. I asked my wife if she would go with him and sha said she is 99.9% sure she would not...that.1% scares the hell out of me...she said i am over analyzing it (which i do with everything, used to be an auditor).

I got hung up on the 99.9% because i wanted a sure thing. Am i being too analytical here since it has only been a week...i was not ready to say that after a week.
Will she send that NC letter that ML posted above, hurtin? That is a big indication of her willingess to commit to the M and end the A.
The problem that many BSs run into is that they believe it when the WS "says" that they will end contact.

Talk is cheap with waywards. The NC letter is an ACTION they can take to show you that they are serious.

You almost have to believe that contact will continue unless you can verify otherwise. I would have her to send that NC letter and then watch her very closely (snoop) for a while.
Have not asked about the NC letter yet. My wife is very stubborn and even her mom said that she knows it is pissing my wife off that the OM just threw her away like she was nothing. She is very bullheaded you could say. I told her tonight that she needs to be 100% sure, not 99.9% before we move on. She said earlier that the 99.9% was in case something ever did happen i could not come back and tell her she lied. And that is how she has always been. And she says never say never all the time.

I think there is a good chance the OM is going to get kicked to the curb...that is what i worry about most i guess. Will he come for her and will she go for him? They have some pretty bad things about each other the last few days to other people and each other when things blew up...but i dont know.
If you're too scared to do what has to be done then file for divorce now - It will be easier than being 100% sure about everything..

And I asked you some questions in my first post to you above that you haven't answered....
Originally Posted by hurtinfl123
Have not asked about the NC letter yet. My wife is very stubborn and even her mom said that she knows it is pissing my wife off that the OM just threw her away like she was nothing. She is very bullheaded you could say. I told her tonight that she needs to be 100% sure, not 99.9% before we move on. She said earlier that the 99.9% was in case something ever did happen i could not come back and tell her she lied. And that is how she has always been. And she says never say never all the time.

Would you ask the same question of of a falling down drunk? Your wife is no more coherent than a falling down drunk. She is not sure of her own name right now. What you need from her is a committment to recover your marriage.

How about being a leader in your marriage and focusing on what will help your marriage rather the doings of a fogged out wayward. Who cares if she is stubborn? That is irrelevent. What matters is what you want. You can't use that as an excuse to let your marriage go to hell. Go tell her what it will take to recover your marriage. Give her an opportunity to EARN your forgiveness by making radical changes in her life.

If you want to save your marriage, then ending contact with the OM is just Step #1 of many other steps. It is just the start. Did you see my post about extraordinary precautions?
Yes, HIF, you should do all the things Mel suggested, but might I provide you some female psyche info about your past?

Your ww probably was utterly devastated when YOU had your AFFAIR. Do you remember how she might have felt immense pain and suffering yet you carried it on? You told her and made the woman wait THREE WEEKS for YOU to decide what you wanted to do.

Most likely if you did not do everything and I mean 100 percent everything in your power to show humility befor her, show her how you ended the affair and mostly showed her how you loved her above all others and were sorry for the horrible pain of the affair you had, and had a PLAN of recovery for your marriage and worked it 24/7 harder than anything you ever did, odds are she did NOT recover at all from YOUR affair.

I personally (being honest here) don't think there is any bw or bh around here who at one second or another thought about the whole "I'll get him/her back for that affair. Heck I'm still attractive." So she may have had a revenge affair. Or else, it was because this OM simply found her weakness (that you have had an affair on her) or discovered that and played it to the hilt, depositing LB stuff in her account left and right.

So right now, I think you need to do the most awesome plan A on the earth. I somehow feel your ww is hurting, that she had been hurting for quite some time, and that this guy came along at the right time, had proximity to her, and he either found out (maybe from his wife if she told him since you are all friends) or she told him about your affair and he used it.

That guy honestly sounds like a sociopath. He does. He sounds alot like my xh. My wxh only burned bridges with coworkers or x employees or business associates. Life was black/white with him. You were either on team Darth or his enemy. Sounds much like this guy. Therefore it is important to get her away from him and do that HUGE exposure as told you by others.

But my concern is you need to do a huger than huge plan A b/c I feel your wife's heart might have been broken for a few years. You have some hard work to do.

Do you sir, still associate in ANY way with the xow? Do you see her? Is there any residual contact at all? What exactly did you do after you ended that affair? I think this dynamic needs to be explored also, if you do intend to repair your marriage and heal your ww's heart.
Question: Do you still work with the ow? You said she was a coworker.

If you do, that is like making a betrayed spouse die each day by a thousand paper cuts.

If you work with the ow, when you w kisses you goodbye each morning, she relives that pain over and over wondering what is going on each day and that is horrible to endure.
Originally Posted by peachyisback
Question: Do you still work with the ow? You said she was a coworker.

If you do, that is like making a betrayed spouse die each day by a thousand paper cuts.

If you work with the ow, when you w kisses you goodbye each morning, she relives that pain over and over wondering what is going on each day and that is horrible to endure.

Yep - I asked him if he was NC with his OW - no answer. I suspect this is a part of the current dynamic.
Sorry for not repling before. My A was 3 years ago...OW left company about 2 months after i ended the A. Have had NC since she left work.

I know I let my LB account run in the red, and I am committed to doing everything I can to get the balance up high enough to get me in Forbes Magazine.
You should have quit your job immediately when you ended your A.

Your wife should write the NC letter but YOU should mail it.

What is your ideas for Plan A? What changes are you going to incorporate?
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