I am new to the site. H and I recently separated, just about a month ago. I found "His Needs Her Needs" at a bookstore and read it twice, which led me here to this site. I haven't read many posts, but am hoping there are others out there who are in/have been in a similar situation and can offer helpful advice. H and I have been married for 14 yrs, dated 1 year prior to that. In Nov. last year a man I dated previously befriended me on FB and chatting began. H found out and was terribly angry, even though it was completely innocent at the time. I was hesitant about even talking to this man b/c of our history, but honestly thought that enough time had passed that it would be ok. The messages and texts continued for 3 months, and I began to develop an emotional attachment, even though there never was any kind of physical or sexual affair. We began having terrible fights and H finally told me I had to leave. He insisted we separate because I was having difficulty breaking off the contact, even though it was not a physical affair. We separated a month ago, even though I ended all contact with the other man a month prior to this. H is so angry and resentful he refuses counseling and says he isn�t sure he wants the marriage anymore. I�ve begged and pleaded to seek therapy but he says it is pointless and he doesn�t need it, but thinks I need to go on my own. We have 2 children ages 9 and 13, both girls. I want to try to salvage this marriage and I love him and our children very much. I have been honest with him concerning what happened and only want him to admit that there were some problems in our marriage that led to this happening. He refuses to accept any responsibility at all and insists he was a �perfect� husband and that I am 100% to blame. Our marriage wasn�t perfect, but he refused to go to counseling before the separation and any time I tried to talk to him about things that bothered me he didn�t want to listen. I am not trying to shift blame and admit that what happened was wrong, but feel that there were some emotional needs he wasn�t meeting (as mentioned in Dr. Harley�s book) that might have led me to look for emotional connections elsewhere. I feel devastated and so lonely, and don�t know what to do now because he is so bitter and angry.
I�ve tried to get him to read the book or even talk to our pastor but he will not. He is a very stubborn man and has always had difficulty saying �I�m sorry� or admitting when he�s made a mistake. It is very hard to try to put a marriage back on track when you can�t have an honest open conversation together.

Welcome teachergirl,

You are in the right place. So you had an emotional affair that lasted for several months. Have you asked your husband what you can do to meet his needs? Some of the pros will be along to talk about boundaries and such. Be patient. Also be aware that a lot of folks here are very direct. Take it with a grain of salt. They stick around because they value marriages.

I am a little surprised that you are so overly focused on getting something out of someone that you have hurt so badly. Your affair with this OM almost wrecked your marriage and you seem to have just swept that under the rug. I see you blaming him for your actions rather than taking responsibility and recognizing what you have done to him. The reason you had the affair is because you have very poor boundaries. You allowed another man to meet your needs.

The fact that you would allow such a relationship to wreck your marriage tells me you placed that affair over your marriage. That is desvatating to a spouse. And here you are demanding that your H perform after you have done this to him?

My suggestion would be first learn some humility and take some responsibility for your actions. Instead of making demands, focus on what you can do to repair the damage you did to the marriage. Have you justly compensated him? Have you EARNED forgiveness? If you have not, then I would suspect that he is very angry and rightfully so.

I would put aside the book you have and get Surviving an Affair because it will help you understand what you have done to your marriage. It will give you a better perspective.

Additionally, I would stop trying to sweep your affair under the rug and show some humility. Read this article and focus on justly compensating your husband. That may soften him instead of your approach which is bound to push him away. Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?


And lastly, being stuck with a cheater feels like being stuck with damaged goods at first. I would work hard on changing that feeling within him so he feels like he didn't get the bad end of the deal.

Welcome to Marriage Builders.

When was the last time you spoke or communicated with the OM? Are you still separated?

Well, TG89, you've found the right place to be. Understand this however: we folks on this site, working with a WS to salvage a badly damaged relationship, without the BS's involvement, is much like pushing a rope. It's much more effective from the other side.

Let me point something out to you, right off the top:

H found out and was terribly angry,.......even though it was completely innocent at the time.
I was hesitant about even talking to this man (but did so)...... but honestly thought that enough time had passed
I began to develop an emotional attachment,.......even though there never was any kind of physical or sexual affair.
I was having difficulty breaking off the contact,......even though it was not a physical affair.
We separated a month ago....... even though I ended all contact with the other man
I am not trying to shift blame.......but (will do so since I)feel that there were some emotional needs he wasn�t meeting

The words on the right side of these statements have NO legitimacy in your BH's mind. None. Accordingly, as you start the staggeringly difficult process of repairing your marriage, you would do yourself a great service if you'd stop alibying your demonstrated actions with horse-dropping disclaimers about your "feelings".

While I'm up (it's after midnight here) I might as well disabuse you of one or two more insights you think you have.

want him to admit that there were some problems in our marriage that led to this happening.
Nope, he should NOT admit it because it isn't true. What led to this happening is your initially looking outside your marriage for something you weren't getting from your husband, and NOT stopping immediately the first time he demanded you do so. THAT would have been an optimum time to find this site, start a thread on M101 entitled, "How Can I Tell My Husband What I'm Missing From Him".

You are 100% to blame for your affair and the breakup of the marriage. So trying to force him to accept responsibility for something in which he had no choice is a losing proposition. You won't win with that crap. Sorry, but you have to man up here, put on the big gurl pants and take 100% responsibility for your affair and the separation.

Wow....where to begin to reply...I have admitted that I am to blame for my choices and actions, and that it was not the right choice to make. I have admitted that to H as well, and asked for forgiveness which he says he cannot give. I do understand that it may take lots of time for him to get to this point of being ready to forgive. I am not demanding that he do so, but other than to say I was wrong, I am sorry, and I want to try to repair the marriage I don't know what else to do. I've asked him to go to counseling but he won't go. I do not "blame" him for my choices, but I do think that the fact that there were some marital problems previously contributed to my decisions. Yes I made those choices and I most certainly did overstep boundaries, but there were areas our marriage needed work on before any of this happened. I tried to get him to go to counseling before and tried to talk to him about the things that were problem areas but got nowhere. I realize that looking outside the marriage wasn't the answer, but he was unwilling to try to improve the relationship or even talk about things that were bothering me. Because I felt very taken for granted and he was unwilling to work on the marriage, it made me more susceptible to a situation I might have otherwise avoided. That's all I'm saying. Keep in mind that I chose to end the conversations with this man before the separation, and there has been no contact for about 3 months. Emotional connections are like addictions, and although I am not an alcoholic or drug user I can relate to being addicted. This OM was emotionally supportive when my husband wasn't. I am not justifying, but instead explaining why it was so easy to get pulled into the relationship and so difficult to end. I didn't go looking for this, it came along at a time when I was not very strong and therefore I made the wrong choice. It wasn't a physical or sexual affair but the H doesn't believe that even though I have offered to take a polygraph test. I know I made a mistake. I was hoping for helpful advice on how to try to save this marriage, for us and for our children. I don't really need to be beat up any more, between myself and the H I have been bashed plenty. I don't expect him to sweep anything under any rugs, but I am hopeful that my marriage can be saved and was asking for helpful advice from others who might have been in a similar situation. If he cannot forgive me then what else is there to do?? I've offered everything I can think of and pleaded with him to try to save the marriage, but he says he isn't sure he wants to. I don't know what else to do at this point. Telling me what a horrible person I am really isn't very helpful...I already feel bad enough.

And how does one compensate? There is nothing I can do about what happened, other than accept responsibility, end the contact, say I am sorry and mean it, and ask to be forgiven...I have done all those things and H still is angry, bitter, mean at times. I do understand his feelings, because I was on the other end of the rope early in our marriage. I just want to know if he will ever move from angry and hate to wanting to try to rebuild. I know it won't be an instant fix, and will take much time. Just don't know where to start if he isn't willing to talk about it without blasting me and telling me over and over how horrible I am. I have forgiven him many times over the years (and vice versa) and stuck by him through some hard times, but he seems unwilling to forgive now. I haven't demanded anything from him, but have asked him to go to therapy to work though this together. We are separated now and he doesn't want to end the separation.

I have already read that article, it is in my book. I read it again and still am unsure what I can do to compensate him. I've even asked him what can I do and he says there is nothing. I have ended the contact, unfriended, deleted contact numbers and changed my email accounts. H has access to all my accounts/passwords and phone. I've given all that to him. I've asked him to tell me what he wants from me or what he needs from me and he is just so angry that he won't talk to me. We've tried a few times to spend some time together but it always ends in yelling because he doesn't want to talk about any of it and I think we need to. He has read all the texts and emails, and I've tried to tell him as best I can remember what the phone conversations were about. Although I have been honest, he thinks I am hiding something from him because I won't admit to having a physical relationship with this man (which I did not do). Perhaps there is something more I can say or do to show him how sorry I am and that I truly regret what happened...that is why I thought counseling would help because we could talk about it with a trained therapist...I am reluctant to just do nothing because that sends the message that I am done and don't want to work on it at all. But when I suggest that we do something together that upsets him as well. Just don't know what to do as it seems to be a no win situation. Saying I'm sorry just seems so invaluable but what else can I do?

Just found this site a few hours ago, and have read some of the other posts about boundaries....curious to know more about that. I've offered to establish some boundaries without even knowing this site existed, such as giving phone access, passwords, calling/texting him throughout day to tell him where I am and what I'm doing....he won't answer or reply in many cases. I offer to spend time with him, ask him what he wants/needs, just feel I am hitting a brick wall. Trying everything I know to try but just seem to be stuck.

TG,

Please read this quote from you.

What does his saying "I'm sorry" have to do with this? When did it become your job to educate him or force him to speak with a pastor or go to counseling.

I am not saying these are bad things to do, but I think what people are trying to tell you that if you are saying things like this to your H, he will take it as an attack and he will dig in. Meanwhile you have not said what you have done to address your affair. Are you in counseling, if so what kind. Are you examining your behavior and decision making? If so what is your plan for recovery.

Are you beginning to realize that you and you alone chose to have the affair. Your H got no vote on your choices.

Finally, has it occured to you that you have hurt him deeply and right now he trusts no one especially himself. He needs time to get his emotional feet under him. Does he need help? Yes. Could the folks here help him? Yes. But, HE has to come to these realizations, you cannot force him to any more than your H asking you to stop the affair actually worked either. You continued until you wanted to stop it.

Please read the articles here and try to see things from your H's point of view. A lot of what you have said while right, usually is considered an attack by a BS or at the very least it is consider blame shifting.

Hang in there this can be made better.

God Bless,

JL

TG,

You also said Technically, this is not setting boundaries, these are normal precautions. Boundaries have to do with some would call morals and how you protect yours.

Boundaries have to do with what you think is right or wrong. Boundaries are about how you handle situations that may hurt you or your family. These are the things that you just won't let happen under your watch.

There is an excellent book on boundaries by Townsed and Cloud, entitled "Boundaries" that you might want to look at.

God Bless.

JL

First, watch this video:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi1001_infidelity0.html.

Please stop trying to get your husband to admit he was wrong, to say he's sorry, etc. It is not helping any when he has been wounded so badly. It's like that saying rubbing salt into an injured wound or whatever.

You have to take full responsibility for what you did. Other people have marriages that are not great but they do not step outside of the marriage to have their needs met. You had an affair because you had poor boundaries, allowed a member of the opposite sex to meet some of your intimate needs and failed to protect yourself, your husband and the marriage from intrusion.

You say your marriage was not great but your BH did not go out and have an affair.

When your husband was angry and asked you to stop. You chose not to, that violates Harley's rule of care and POJA. You should never do anything that the other person is not enthusiastic about.

Right now the most you can do is to apologize to him, take 100% responsibility. Show him have you have cut off all contact, give him your passwords to your accounts. Give him a list of EP that will state how you alone will prevent another affair (a list of boundaries). Clean up your side of the fence, make yourself a better person, go seek the counseling he suggested you do and hope that he will take you back. Take care of your daughters, explain to them what you did and your choices.

I am a WW and have been trying for the past 8 months to fix what I did. But realize that the pain your inflicted is nothing you could ever imagine and if the BS does take you back, they have given you a huge gift that we WW do not deserve or really have a right to ask for.

Oh and just give him your list and follow it. Show through your actions you have changed. That is the same thing I did. SOme of the things on my list were that I would spend time one on one with members of the opposite sex for lunch/dinner, etc or even chat in text messages or on the phone. Just follow through on your words because they mean nothing to him. You took vows which you broke, how can he believe what you are saying.

Sorry not trying to be harsh just explaining how I have had to deal with things and the reality when you betray a spouse.

Ok, you asked how you begin to compensate. Well hold on, because you aren't going to like it.

First, you are going to delete FB, and never again partake in any social networking sites on the internet.

Second, you will tell all of your friends and family why you and your BH are separated, and will do so with only this statement; "H and I are separated because I had an emotional affair with POSOM."

You will not justify as you have tried to do here, and yes, you will name the OM.

If anyone asks why, the ONLY answer is "Because I was selfish and cruel."

You will tell this to your parents and his, your siblings and his, and you will tell your children.

You will write a no contact letter to the OM, and give it to your husband to approve and mail.

If OM is married, you will call his wife, tell her what was going on, and apologize for assaulting her marriage.

If you can't do this you can't be taken seriously that you want to recover your marriage.

Did you send a NC letter?

Unfriending is not an option after you have had a FB affair. You need to shut down the FB down.

There are numerous numerous folks on this site in Plan A, Plan B for months, sometimes years getting none of their ENs met by their wandering/abusive spouse, yet they do not have affairs. So sorry, trying to pin your suscetpibility on the problems in the M isn't going to work here.

You were talking to an old boyfriend on FB, that's just asking for trouble no matter the state of the M.

Okay, after ML, JL, WW and I hit you with the cold-water of "the view from the BS side" HHH gave you the starting points for recovery. Several of them you could have finished by lunch, specifically deleting your FB entry, and informing your immediate family what you did to create this situation.

(If you want to debate the necessity of these actions, please don't waste our time. You've got to consider two things here:
1 - We out here have been through the other side of the hell you're experiencing, and know what it took to forgive our WS's and decide to continue with them.
2 - Your marriage is in the crapper; your opinions about repairing a marriage have somewhat less validity than those opinions you had for maintaining one.
This is NOT an emotional-support-is-all-important feel-good site. This site helps folks involved in marriages damaged by infidelity put ACTION PLANS in place, and follow them, to repair the damage.)

Good, now after doing those two things, contact your husband (phone is best, but e-mail if you think he's still too angry to listen) and tell him what you've done, and what your next steps are going to be (the rest of HHH's list). Tell him you're sorry, that you were stupid, and cruel, and that you hope you actions will help him heal. NOTHING about recovery yet.

Got it? Stop reading. Go to work. Come back when you can tell us that they're done, and how you informed your BH.

teachergirl - I've only got a few minutes as I've got to get ready for work, but I will try to pop back in later.

First of all - OK, so I can agree with you - your M may not have been perfect. Neither was mine. Both you and your BH were 50% responsible for the state of your M, before you chose to have an A.

But - here's what the OP's have been trying to get across to you: The decision to engage in an affair was 100% your fault. I did the same thing. What a crappy way to deal with problems in our marriages, wouldn't you agree?

Now, that said - you must first address the damage you have done to your BH and to your M by your A. Minimizing it by saying "it wasn't physical" and so on is not helping. What you did to your BH is like shooting him in the heart. Now, he's on the floor bleeding out and you want to slap a bandaid on it and tell him to get up, 'cause you are telling him it was partly his fault for stepping in front of the gun.

HUH????

I have been where you are, and in fact I am separated now, b/c my H decided he ultimately did not want to remain in a M with someone like me. And that is something that you may have to face as well. Ultimately your BH is perfectly within his rights to walk away. If you begin to show humility, remorse, and honesty you may have a snowball's chance. But please, please, if you want to recover your M, address the damage done by the A FIRST...

PS - you'll get some hard knocks at times on this forum. But if you are serious about saving your M, stick around. The reason you get those hard knocks is that people here actually are pro-M and WANT to see you succeed - if you are serious about succeeding. You won't find as many dedicated, pro-M people to support you IRL, I can guarantee it.

If you had the affair why does he have to do all the changing? Why does he have to say he is sorry? All you talk about is changing him, but you are the one who had the affair. You sure don't sound sorry to me. You sound defensive, hostile and entitled. And yes, you do blame him. Otherwise you wouldn't be dragging out his faults here. The foggy comments would lead me to believe you are still in contact with your OM. Your H may believe you are lying about ending contact. I know I sure do.

I don't see how that is going to attract him back. There is nothing here, in fact, that would motivate me to take you back if I were him.

So if I were you, I would ask yourself why he should be interested in taking you back and focus on that. Drop the blame, drop the hostility and grow a little humility. You are not entitled to a reconciliation, after all.

I do understand his feelings, because I was on the other end of the rope early in our marriage
Can you elaborate more on this as well???

I made it in to work and had some time to really read over your posts.

First of all:



yes, TG, has there been past infidelity in your M?

Next,


OK...that's where you need to stop. You admit that you did wrong, and you understand that it will take time (and patience!) to possibly restore your M. That's right-on.

But then...


Yes, you are justifying! And please, I am not calling you a horrible person. I am saying your actions are horrible. I am a FWW, I have been there, done that.

You asked about compensation. I hope you've read up on "extraordinary precautions" (EPs). You need to put those into place regardless of whether you and your BH are together or separated. The first one needs to be: 1.) ELIMINATE FB. You showed you had weak boundaries and part of the equation was FB and it's easy access to pretty much anybody you had a past relationship with. I should know, my A started on FB.

A poly is also an option. I took one. You have to understand that your words are worth nothing to your BH right now, and actions are everything. And even then, he is not going to trust/believe your actions are genuine. How much belief he can have in you depends on more than the A itself...how honest are you being now? Does he know everything? I mean everything??? Do not hold anything back for fear of "hurting your BH more" or fear of "losing him forever." Again, been there, done that. It is not a question of hurting him more...you've already dealt a mortal blow. If you're withholding from your BH, you're only trying to protect yourself - not your BH or your M.

Your actions have to do the talking for you. You need to try to meet your BH's needs, whether he lets you or not. And sometimes, all you can do is work on cleaning up your side of the street, and trust me, hon, as a wayward, we all have cleaning up to do.

We had our firstborn 11 months after getting married. Struggles began, life was hard as we were both working, babies add stress to any marriage especially a new marriage. I discovered some things about a year after she was born (phone calls, internet porn access, dating hotline calls, etc. that he had been doing while I was pregnant and after having our child. I had the proof, phone bills, internet logs, etc. I confronted him, but he never admitted to any of it or said he was sorry. There was never any resolution. I wanted to go to counseling then but he wouldn't go. As far as I know there were no meetings but lots of phone calls and hits on the internet sites. We separated for about 6 months, during which time I did date another person. I chose to leave, he begged me to stay but he wouldn't admit so I just couldn't. I wasn't seeing anyone while we were still living together. Nobody in his family and only a few of mine know about these things, still to this day. They had been going on for over a year without my knowing. We actually had lawyers involved then, I was given custody of the baby, he had visitation, and we were apart for 6 months. I decided to try to repair then because of the baby and because I loved him and didn't want to be a victim of divorce. It was hard to get over especially because he still denies what happened. There is a lot of details I won't go into because of time and length, but it was very ugly and I'm not sure we ever really recovered from it. I resented that he wouldn't confess and he resented that I dated someone else. He didn't want to talk about it at all, just wanted to forget and move on. So I tried to...I KNOW how he feels because he did it to me. The difference is I admitted my wrongs and asked him for forgiveness and to try to rebuild. He never did that...the anger and resentment never really went away for me because he lied and to this day still hasn't admitted or apologized.
To answer other questions, I have offered to close FB, but he has access so he can see anything I do on there. He says he doesn't care and I can do/see/date whoever I want because he doesn't care anymore. Yes I wrote a letter for no contact, and made a phone call, which there hasn't been since end of Feb. I have written numerous letters/emails/texts/and called H to tell him what I can/will offer to do which is basically anything he wants of me at this point. I am not sure about the boundaries still, need to read more about that and EPs but I am not in situations where I am around other men, and that wasn't the problem. I knew this person, he friended me, it wasn't somebody I hooked up with at work/bar/etc. There isn't a history of getting hooked up with other men I don't know. He has complete access to any account or password, I am not in a situation where I am around the OM or any other males for that matter. There hasn't been a history of other affairs throughout the marriage, other than the above mentioned.
I guess this is where I am: I know I made a mistake. I admitted it, I've offered counseling together because I thought it was a step in the right direction and a place where we could get ALL the junk out in the open, from the past too because I think it all has to come out to be resolved. I never demanded he go, and its his choice, but I thought offering was a step in the right direction. He isn't interested. I think because he doesn't want his junk brought out....so maybe I am justifying, but I think unless you know the whole story you don't understand my situation.....hopefully it is more clear now. I was wrong, but he hasn't been perfect either. I'll agree to anything he is willing to agree to. If I give passwords up, then he should do the same. If I take a poly, he should do the same. If I agree to hand over the phone, he should do the same. I have offered those but he won't budge. Again, the denial and not wanting past brought out is likely to blame. I know it doesn't justify what happened recently....not trying to do that at all. I just don't understand why my behavior is so horrible (it was) and what he did we can't talk about....doesn't seem quite fair to me. He isn't the lone victim here...

Sounds like he has passed on that offer.

You need to take a step back and focus on yourself.

Breathe ... and look at your situation today. He is currently not living with you. You have no control over him. He may or may not divorce you, he may or may not forgive you, he may or may not change ... THAT IS YOUR REALITY TODAY!!!

All you have at the moment is yourself, so what are you going to do for you today? What actions are you going to do for you today? What is your plan?


....so maybe I am justifying, but I think unless you know the whole story you don't understand my situation.....hopefully it is more clear now. I was wrong, but he hasn't been perfect either.

Blaming him, wanting him to be something different, begging him, pleading with him, is no plan and it will only make the situation worse.

There is nothing you can do today accept make a difference in your life.

Stop ... figure out what you need to do to get healthy. What actions do you need to do in order for you to forgive yourself today?

A Plan

1) Just Compensation - what can only you do today to give him just compensation? If that means leaving him alone and accepting his choices today, then you must do that.

2) Read SAA, HNHN, Lovebusters, this forum, and get counseling with Dr. H. Only for you Teacher. None of this will be for him.

3) Take time for yourself today. Take time for you. Get a massage, get your nails done, take a bath, visit a friend, volunteer at the homeless shelter, knit hats for the NICU babies, whatever you do just do!!!!

4) Determine where you want your life to be in 30 days, 180 days, one year, and five years. What are your goals? Find something to work towards (getting your hubby back isn't on the list). What do you plan to do for you?

You need to remove your BH out of this picture and focus on you. If he isn't willing to recover today, then let him be and recover yourself. Only time can give you the answers you seek, so today you must focus on healing you and focusing on what you need to become to be a better person and a great mom.

hooo, boy...ok, lots of stuff going on.

Yes, his behavior in the past - internet porn, dating sites, etc - was infidelity. It appears your M never recovered from that, for starters. You also dated while you were separated from your H, which is also wrong. Separated does not = single. I don't know how serious you were about your dating partner while separated, since you just mention dating "another person."

All of these past issues are compounding your current one, which is your A. It doesn't matter who it was with, it doesn't matter that you didn't cat around to bars and club-hop. My A was with someone I'd known in the past as well. I wasn't a person who bar-hopped. My H said to me that he never thought I was the kind of person who would do what I did. I was the good girl. Good family, stable childhood, parents in a happy marriage (over 40 years for them), etc etc ad nauseum. If anything, he'd said he would have thought he'd be more likely to cheat b/c of his past. However, HE had strong boundaries that he put into place and enforced - because of his background.

All I'm saying is that it doesn't matter who you are, or how you characterize the A. In the end it doesn't matter if the A was with an old flame, a coworker, someone you met in a bar. It is all infidelity.

I know you want to try and fix what was wrong in the past. I wanted that too. But you simply cannot address the past until you address the immediate damage from your A. Having a RA, even years later, compounds the original damage.

What you can do is focus on cleaning up your side of the street. Follow toughlove's advice. Get in touch w/the coaching center or email the radio show. There are things you can do to try and encourage a resistant spouse to get on board with MB. I did 2 coaching sessions w/Jennifer and she helped me come up with a plan to work on my LB's, meet my H's needs, and try to introduce him - gently - to MB. The thing is, though, you can only encourage, not force. Your BH sounds like he doesn't want to hear that right now. Begging and pleading will only make things worse. It makes you clingy and needy and unattractive.

My H moved out almost 4.5 months ago. He has told me he has no interest in reconciliation. It doesn't matter what happened in the past, it is the BH's decision to decide what he can or cannot move forward from. I've had to learn to accept that. I've reached a point where I know that I don't need my H, but I want him in my life. I've reached a point where I will accept what he is willing to give me, without pressuring him to come back to the M. Yes, it's hard. Many days I have no hope left at all. But I keep going. Maybe my M will never be restored. But I will be a healthier, happier woman and a better mother when I get through my own personal recovery.

If your M is restored, then you can start addressing what is not working in the relationship. But right now you need to give your BH the time and space he needs and focus on you. No dating this time around! I'd still cut out FB, allow your H access to anything he needs. Do that whether he asks or not. Focus on being a woman he would be proud to be with - and a woman that YOU are proud of being.

Uh... if you "dated someone else" while you were married, then this is the first time you have committed infidelity.

Sister, you need to correct your rectal-cranial inversion.

Thanks for the comments....I am looking for a counselor but was hopeful it would be something we would do together. Since it appears it won't be then I do plan to go on my own...just looking for someone I can see in person, locally, who has a good reputation for counseling and hopefully I can find a pastor or counselor with a Christian background. I will add that H has asked a few times for dinner as a family with the kids which I've done, and we see each other when kids are exchanged, but it seems to always end in fighting because every time I see him he makes comments or starts in on me telling me how terrible I am and how awful I acted....I already know that and having it pounded in my brain is only stomping the very tiny bit of self esteem that I have left if there is any at all. I wasn't a bad wife, and I too would consider myself a very "good girl". I don't drink, no drugs, go to church every week, don't even go out with friends.
I have been a good mother, pretty much taking care of most of the kids needs by myself because of his work schedule. All the appointments, homework, laundry, housework, meetings, drop offs and pick ups, etc. I took care of. The kids are 13 and 9, so there are quite a few years there I have been a very busy mom and wife. Plus I work full time even in the summer and have just finished graduate school as previously mentioned. I cooked meals just about every night, ironed all the clothes, generally kept the house tidy but not spotless. He would not argue with these facts at all and would tell you I took good care of him and the kids. He has said this to me himself. I come from a terrible background, broken home and verbally abusive father who left my mother with 3 kids for another woman when we were all grown. I also experienced repeated episodes of sexual abuse from a relative as a child/teen, from a family member but it wasn�t my dad. So, my past has been rocky and I have never had a stable male in my life until my marriage. Then within the first year the previously mentioned events with H occurred and I don�t think I ever got back my trust in him. He has lied to me on repeated occasions, not concerning women but other issues such as money, purchases, his whereabouts, and so forth.
It appears that my only choice now is to just let him have his space, but I don�t want that to send the message that I am done and don�t want my marriage back. I don�t want to push him away and be a nagging, whiney, clingy wife, and I guess that is what I have been. I have also been trying to take care of myself. I�ve been working out, lost weight (not that I needed to but the stress plus recent braces helped with that) bought new clothes as I can afford them, and spent lots of time working on the house I�ve moved into. He will occasionally tell me nice things about how I look and he will occasionally hug me. He even says he misses me and he is lonely, but those messages usually come late at night. I try not to contact him unless he makes contact first, so as not to appear naggy or needy. It seems like he wants to be around me but just can�t stand to be around me for very long. I am just lost as to how I should even act. I try to look my best around him, offer to do things I think he would like to do, and anytime he asks to see me I am available. He got very mad at me on Mothers day because I went to see my mom instead of spending the day with him, but he didn�t ask me until Saturday night before and I already had plans to spend the afternoon with her. He was angry and told me I always put everybody else before him. Not sure how else I could have handled that situation. Little things like that keep popping up, and it seems every move I make just makes him snap. I try to not get pulled into the argument but it is so hard to listen to him rant on and on about what happened over and over. When he starts yelling the name calling begins and he even does this in front of the kids. I just try to lay low and not upset him but some days I do it and don�t even know what I did to set him off. Just wish I had some pointers as to what I can do to minimize these blow ups and make our interactions more peaceful. I don�t understand why he would ask to see me if he says he doesn�t want the marriage back. I feel very confused but he says he just doesn�t know what he wants right now. I know that he loved me very much, and think that he still does. I know he is reeling from all this and that he needs time to sort through it all. I just want to know what I am supposed to do and how to act so as not to make the situation worse. I am doing what I thought was the right thing but maybe I�ve been going about it wrong. I am truly sorry for what I did, I have been completely honest with him about the A and I will do all I can to meet his needs but I don�t know what they are.

teachergirl, can you do us a favor and break your posts up into paragraphs? It is too hard to read like that. thanks

You have to do whatever you can to get yourself put first at the moment.

1) I strongly encourage with your background at least one phone call with Dr. H. He will allow you get a good start on a Plan that you need to execute.

2) Until you are healthy your marriage may have to put on hold. That doesn't mean divorce, but a just hold. If your husband is not willing to reconcile, then your only option is to reconcile yourself.

3) Continue to Plan A him if you desire, but keep in mind you need to establish some strong boundaries of your own. Dr. H. will allow you to figure out how to go about establishing these boundaries.

Teacher you are going to have to start today with you. You are going to have to the books needed to begin to heal you. This will be one of the hardest paths you will take in your life.

You need 1) Support 2) a Plan

Stop telling us about how your childhood and your husband have failed you. That does you no good as an adult. What you have to do is recognize you need to work on yourself to get you on the right path and that path is called, "Healthy!"

You can save your marriage by recognizing you are the only one you can control. You have to let go of your husband at the moment, and decide for your marriage, your children, and your health you must start on you today.

In time you will see how that is the most successful path to rebuilding a marriage, a family, and your children. That may or may not be with your current husband.

Your posts seem to be all about you.

You DID act terribly and awfully.

I'm sorry, you just stabbed your husband in the back and now you're worried about your self esteem?

Yes you were. "Good wives" don't get involved with other men.

But you DO have affairs.

If you were a good mother, you wouldn't have destroyed your family for purely selfish reasons.

I suggest you stop trying to convince people how good you were. Your actions speak louder than your words. And it really must turn your husband's stomach to hear you talk that way.

Well, two wrongs don't make a right, and the fact that his prior conduct was deplorable doesn't make yours less deplorable.

As someone else has said, you can't fix him; only HE can do that. What you CAN do, what YOU can control, is taking care of your own stuff. This does not involve carrying a mental clipboard & keeping score of "who's wronged who more." The fact that you've had an emotional affair (which in its breach of emotional intimacy is pretty much the same as a physical affair) speaks to the fact that you've got enough issues to work on that demand your full time & attention.

In this perspective, your stance of "I'll agree to anything if he agrees to it" is imposing a conditionality on your willingness to try to save your marriage. It comes off as sounding like you won't start cleaning up your stuff until he starts cleaning up his. (That may not be the stance you intend, but that's what it may sound like to him.) That sense of conditionality will get you to divorce court, more bills for separate lawyers, separate households, and shuttling the kids for visitations on weekends & holidays & vacations until they're 18.

Speaking to you with compassion here as a guy who had an affair, my first piece of advice would be to drop the conditionality of your approach to trying to save your marriage. Case in point: Facebook was the main instrument of your affair -- how it started & continued. I gather you have not closed it. You say you've offered, but your husband hasn't insisted. Teachergirl, so what if he hasn't insisted? You need to take Extraordinary Precautions against renewed contact with this other guy -- that's a core part of the MarriageBuilders approach to killing & preventing affairs. Look it up on this site. Your husband sees you keeping this avenue of possible contact open. He probably sees that as ambivalence on your part about reassuring him. Reassuring him doesn't mean you do the minimum you think you can get away with doing; it means you go all-out to help protect his feelings so that he can begin -- in increments -- to feel safe, to feel like you've got his back. Cancelling FB is such a small, easy step! It's not the only step you must take, but it's such a no-brainer. Do it already. And change the phone numbers and give him the passwords to your e-mail & phones anyway, regardless of whether he is ready to reciprocate. That's a tiny start to taking care of your side of the street.

YOU had your affair. Your marriage may have been weak or vulnerable because of misdeeds & inattentiveness on both your parts, but nothing forced you to look outside in such a personal way as sharing confidences with another man. You chose that route of your own free will, and your husband deserves none of the blame for that choice of yours. Therefore, my second piece of advice is, if you want to save your marriage and restore love for & from your husband, then one thing you must certainly do is own that choice in its entirety. Hint: "Owning it" does not mean saying you're at fault but then qualifying your statement with some weasel-words about how your husband shares blame. Yeah, he may share blame for the state of your marriage; but he does not share blame for your choice to engage in an affair. This "owning it" won't be sufficient, but it is necessary, for saving your marriage. So own it.

Re: some things you said earlier, let me take a stab at an example of what "owning it" might sound like:
I'm not saying you won't need to deal with H's issues. I suggest you get the book "Surviving An Affair." Read the parts about radical honesty. But you've got enough on your own plate to keep you busy for now.

Try ID'ing his top emotional needs. Try meeting them, without making your efforts conditional. Yes, eventually, there'll come a time when he'll need to decide to get back on-board with trying to save the marriage, and with understanding how his past behavior depleted your love-bank. But you have a lot work to do in order to help him feel emotionally safe enough to engage in that effort. And you need to start now, without waiting for assurance that it'll work out. You need to exercise some faith here: After all, you're asking & expecting him to trust you again; and the only way that is going to work (since you've had an affair) is for you to commit daily acts of trust, by placing your heart into his hands, for him to reject or reaccept someday.

After I confessed my affair & begged my wife to keep me, she let me stay. But really, I had no assurance it'd work out. I had no way of knowing that she wouldn't decide, after a couple of weeks or a couple of months, that she just couldn't get past what I'd done, how I'd lied to her & deceived her. But if I'd held back & made my efforts toward her conditional on things she'd do for me, I just might have sealed the outcome I most dreaded.

If you don't want to make beyond-minimal efforts without having the outcome all wrapped up in a bow before you really get started, it won't work, and you might as well dial your lawyer. You're either all-in or all-out. There's no sitting on the fence anymore for you if you want to build a marriage that's better than what you've had before.

Ok, what does this have to do with the price of tea in China? You are grown up now, not a child. If you want to interest your H into taking you back, I would stop with the self pity and start focusing on what you can do to attract him back.

And PLEASE, use paragraphs.

Well, I suppose folks could have called me a "good wife" and a "good mother" too, before I had an affair. "Good" wives and mothers don't have A's. Selfish people have affairs. You want to justify having an A? Here's the only justification - I was selfish, so I decided to have an affair.

You cannot blame anyone or anything else for that decision: your "unhappiness," your BH, your childhood, your parents, high gas prices, whatever. And as GO said, two wrongs don't make a right.

The field of work I'm in, constantly you hear tales of woe used to excuse present behavior. "I was abused as a child, that's why I brutally murdered those 6 people." I'm not saying that childhood traumas don't affect people - but I have a dear friend who was repeatedly sexually abused by her father until she was old enough to move out of the house. Does she cheat on her H? No. She's a gentle and loving wife and one of the very best mothers I know, who I'd trust with my daughters in a heartbeat. I have another friend whose parents divorced when she was young. Does she cheat on her H? Nope.

Me? I was date-raped in college and had an abortion when I was 23. Did that cause me to cheat? No. Poor boundaries caused me to cheat. Selfishness caused me to cheat. Rampant stupidity and rectocranial inversion caused me to cheat. No one - I mean no one - held a gun to my head and made me do it.

It's a choice we made. And choices have consequences, and we don't get to choose what those consequences are going to be, or put conditions on them.

Part of what it means to clean up your side of the street is to fully take ownership of your actions. If you can't do that, if you can't see where you failed to have boundaries in place, then what's to stop you from cheating again the next time you're "not happy"?

I have given him passwords, or at least I offered them to him. He said he didn't want them because now that we are separated it didn't matter what I did or who I talked to. I wanted him to have the access as a way to show him that I am not hiding anything from him. I don't have any other male friends on FB other than blood relatives, and there is no other person on there that could even be considered a threat. All women, most of them family and coworkers. He has read the texts and emails; I've closed all the email accounts. I offered keys to my house, but he won't take them.

There has been no contact of any kind at all since Feb. I seriously doubt he will ever try to contact, but I�ve promised to tell H if that happens. He says he�s worried about later down the road, not immediately. How does he know I won�t do it again? What can I do at present to reassure him it won�t happen? I can�t provide him any proof even though I feel very strongly about doing anything I can to ensure this man doesn�t interfere in our lives again. Contact is broken, and I have no withdrawal effects, I don�t sit and mope and feel depressed about OM at all. I realize it was a mistake, a wrong choice, and a selfish decision. Making the break was hard, and at first it was sad for me because I really had feelings for this person, but I love my husband more and realized that I was going to have to do this if I wanted to try to save the marriage. Each day got easier and I am now moving towards anger at OM for what happened.

I tried in a recent conversation to talk to husband about the Emotional Needs explained in Dr. Harley�s books that I�ve read. I told him that the books explains how women/men have different needs and that we both are/were probably unaware of what the other wanted and expected from each other. Reading that made so much sense to me, it was like I realized what the source of many of our conflicts might have been. (How I wish I�d read that book just a few months previously!) I even asked him what I could do to try to make him happy�what did he want from me now and what his needs are. I tried to share the lists from the book with him and asked him to read them and give me his list.

He got very frustrated with the conversation, said I was being pushy, so I dropped it. I don�t know what his needs are. I know that sounds awful after being married for 14 years, but I would guess he wouldn�t know how I would arrange the list of needs either. I don�t think either of us really knew the other the way we should have. I do know that he needs lots of attention and I don�t, (he likes holding hands, snuggling, etc.) and his sex drive is high, mine almost doesn�t exist�but I can�t really meet either of those needs presently because we are separated. So my question to all the posts telling me to try to meet his needs is: How do I meet them if I don�t know what they are and he won�t tell me? I am guessing at them and obviously getting it wrong.

I am here to ask for suggestions and advice about what I should/shouldn�t be doing at this point. I know it was wrong, a bad choice, my fault and he doesn�t have to try to work things out. I do have resentment for things that have happened that were never resolved. Wish I didn�t but it is there�another reason I thought counseling would help and I do plan to seek that on my own. If he needs time, then I will give him time. This has been difficult for him to say the very least, but it has also been a devastation to me and the kids. I want to try to fix it, to make right the wrong and hopefully give our kids back their family. I understand it is broken because of me and feel that it is my job to try to repair; just don�t know how�.

I have told H it was my decision, I accept the blame for it, and that I should have come to him about the emotional disconnect I felt prior to this relationship starting. There were contributing factors, but the choice was mine to make. None of the things that I experienced in childhood or during our marriage made it ok for me to go to the OM, but I can�t undo what�s been done. All I can do is try to make it right. Nobody made me do anything, and I wasn�t looking for nor did I have any physical interactions with OM. H says he wished that it had been a stranger and had been a sexual affair instead of an emotional one, because it would be easier for him to get over that.

I didn�t choose to have the feelings for OM. Having known him from the past, the emotional connection was quick to develop. I did choose the actions that put us in a bad situation, and I chose to begin and continue conversation with him. It truly was an addiction and was extremely difficult to break free from. OM didn�t end it, I made the decision entirely on my own. It just took some time for me to get to the point that I was ready to do it. I�ve always heard that alcoholics have to want to get better before they can benefit from therapy, and I can understand that now because in the midst of what happened I was not interested in stopping. Even though I saw what I was doing to my family, and I knew I shouldn�t be talking to him, I couldn�t and didn�t want to stop. H tried his best to end it but until I chose to do so nothing anybody said mattered to me. Looking back now I realize many things I couldn�t see at the time.

Um... Can I say this is one of the clearest best posts I have read from you? Thank you WPG. It is 100% spot on.

I wish the forum had a "like" button

I read in one of Dr. Harley's articles on this site that a spouse should not repeatedly bring up past events which harm the other and destroy love between them. We both are guilty of that, but he blasts me with it every time we are together. I don't know how to go about meeting his needs when he is still in a rage. His behavior is erratic, and I don't mean that in a bad way but he will seem to be ok, we are getting along well, and then he snaps into anger/rage mode with little or no warning. I don't really know what sets him off. It's like he starts thinking about it and it gnaws at him until he blows up. Sometimes I have no idea what happened to set him off. Does this mean that it would be best for us to just stay apart for a while? That seems to go against the recommendations from Dr. Harley. Contact was broken almost 3 months ago with OM. Read that time frame can be up to 2 years for recovery. Everyone keeps saying try to meet his needs....how do I find out what they are? I have asked him....

So, somewhere along justifying your affair, you fog babbled about an emotional disconnect.

Translation; I only keep my vows when you keep me happy, and I will lie by omission about my happiness, and seek another man if I am not happy.

I'll give you a sad, sad hint at how easily he can be triggered; he looks at the woman in front of him, thinks how much he loves her, then thinks how little it must mean to her, and how little she tossed it aside for.

My H and I are in recovery at this point, and the ONLY reason I am still with him is because he completely owned the adultery. He will offer absolutely no, "well, if you had..." or "I wouldn't have if only you had..." He states that he knows he was a "selfish idiot." If he had not shown complete unqualified remorse, I wouldn't be here. The just compensation has been a must, too. He has worked very hard to meet my emotional needs better than ever. The marriage must be better than pre-affair.

Your H is trying to "understand" how his wife could have done this. It is natural for him to be up then down; it's called the roller coaster, and it's horrible.

As for your H's emotional needs, you already have figured out that he needs affection and sexual fulfillment. According to Dr H., most men also list recreational companionship among the top five. Admiration and physical attractiveness two other common needs of men. I suggest heading in that direction. Be as gently affectionate as he will allow at this time. Perhaps offer a couple of suggestions for fun things you could do together. Just a start. Always look your best and smell nice. These are generalizations Dr. H. has made based on surveys, and any individual man may have different needs, but it's a good start.

I totally understand your resentment about your H's former behavior, but at this point, he is feeling betrayed by your actions. Since you currently have no control over his actions, only over yours, do all you can to completely own up to what you did. When/if he returns and the marriage goes into recovery, then you can both work to be radically honest with each other and on making this a great marriage. But if you do anything other than work on yourself at this time, you are likely to drive your H away.

Finally, although your H did some pretty stupid things, so did mine, and I never, not once, was unfaithful, either emotionally or physically. I maintained absolute fidelity, not because of him, but because of the person I wanted to be.

Quite frankly, Teachergirl?

I'm siding with your husband. I wouldn't be interested in dealing with you at all, because you are looking to make excuses, and to drag him into your blame pie.

I'd do just as he is doing. Say no thanks.

I am sure this has been said, and you know it- but emotional disconnection is not a contributing factor to the affair. It's a factor in your marriage, but it's not causation for the affair.

You don't seem to grasp that. And until you do, if your husband were here, I'd advise him to do just as he's doing. Which is stay away from you.

But you still cling to blameshifting and rationalizations. If I were your husband I would move on. Nothing short of "I completely screwed up and it is my fault entirely" is going to interest most BS's.

From reading your posts, it is clear to me he has made the right decision for now. Unless you can show some real remorse and take some accountability for your actions he is wise to stay away.

But he is not interested in reconciling so why would he follow Marriage Builders?

TG, if you want to pull this out, you need to listen to us. You have given your H no reason to take you back. You would have to make a radical change in your attitude to get the interest of most spouses. What you have shown here isn't working. And we are trying to tell you why.

Should not:

Wear your victim garments.

Should:

Make a list of your H's 7 most admirable qualities.
Use that list to write him a daily love letter for a week.
Expect nothing in return.

Admiration is usually a top 3 EN for our husbands.

teachergirl --

True recovery (of yourself) requires you to take an inventory.
No excuses, no justifications.

I've been in your shoes. It's a painful process.
Be GRATEFUL to those that are here to help you truly see.
And you have some of the BEST people I know posting to you.

Once you have done this work, you will have a new approach to you husband. And it will be one that will let him see that you are not a danger to him anymore.

Be humble.

My H had a EA/PA with his friend's wife.
It was hideous behavior on his part.
Hers too.

Why did I stay married to him?

He was advised by our counselor to say the following as often as necessary:

"I will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes to make this right."

And, he did.
Even when it was more than unpleasant, it was downright humbling.
He went to my family members and apologized.
He went to OW's H and apologized.
He went to our church leaders and apologized.
He humbled himself.
And in that way, he made returning to the marriage worth my consideration.

He was not perfect.
But, he was consistently making efforts to improve himself, not trying to improve me. (Which is what you are doing. Ugh)

Even today, 15.5 years into recovery, he says to me:

"Is there anything I can do for you today?"

I ask you, who would not stay with a man like that?

He's awesome !

And ....

I am 100% certain my H would have liked an apology or two (or more) from me for my marriage blunders.
But, he was not enough of a jerk, or dumb enough, to ask/demand/require I apologize to him during the dark days after his affair.

I've made all my apologies after gaining insight and humility.

You seek advice?
Install some humility into your self talk.
Pray for insight.
And, apologize broadly.

I may never be able to make amends to my H. But I will get through this. I will teach my daughters not to make the same mistakes that I made. I will teach them that when they gain the love and the trust of an honorable, decent man that they are to treasure that, because it is more valuable than gold. I will teach them that nothing on this earth is worth degrading yourself for. If I cannot be a wife to him then I will learn to be a better woman and mother for my own sake, and more importantly the sake of our children, who he still entrusts me with.

teach, you do what you can to meet his needs. He behaves erratically? What else would you expect? He has triggers all throughout the day, some that you might be able to identify (and therefore try to avoid in the future) and some that you have no idea about...and some that are so ingrained in daily life that they are nearly impossible to avoid. Yes, he does need to learn to deal with his emotions and his triggers - regardless of what happens with your M - but he cannot be made to deal with those on your timetable!

You say you have taken responsibility for what you've done, but until you realize that the state of your M and your decision to have an A are completely independent from each other, then you haven't taken responsibility.

Here's what you do. You still see your H when you exchange the children. He still eats dinner with you as a family. During those times, look your best. Be warm and friendly. Cook things he likes to eat. If he lashes out at you, do not lash back. That doesn't mean stand there and take verbal abuse, but respectfully extricate yourself from the situation. I'm sure you've heard of "active listening" and the process of validation? A simple:

"I�m sorry you feel that way. Thank you for being honest with me."
"I am sorry that I failed to protect you."
"I am committed to a new life with you."


Then boom, drop it, end of story. No rationalization, nothing further. At some point you can possibly reintroduce MB to him as a plan to restore the love between you and to rebuild your marriage. But he must see the changes in you before he will be open to that. And that may willtake some time - how much time, is anyone's guess.

I went crazy clingy nutso when my H left. I was sending flowers, gifts, cards, CD's of love songs, you name it. I backed off. It doesn't mean I love him less - I'm just trying not to push him away by being overwhelming. I suggest things that we can do together - sometimes he takes me up on them, sometimes not. I will give him little things every once in a while just because I see something and I think of him. I do not bring up our relationship and I try my best to avoid LB'ing him. I do my best to meet the needs he allows me to meet.

But in doing so, you have to come to the decision that your marriage - your H - is worth fighting for. It is not easy. You will not get all your needs met (and if you are still saying that you had an A b/c you didn't get your needs met, then what are you gonna do???). You will deal with people IRL who will tell you to move on. It is hard, and it can be lonely, and if you've read my thread you know I struggle. You will have to deal with frequent rejection. Some days you will feel completely hopeless. Trust me - I have NOT gotten it right yet!!!! But he's worth it to me. Someday, I hope he sees that...but I have to accept the fact that it may never happen. But that doesn't mean I stop trying.

Observation:

The above quote is an example of a *** disrespectful judgment *** love buster. (LB)

You're angry at him.
I get it.
He's made mistakes.
I get it.
He has poor marriage skills.
I get it.

And? Now what?
We can make a list of every wrong thing your BH has done over the years.
And? Now what?

He's still rejecting you because you pose a threat and a danger to him.

He may very well admit one mistake, if you're not careful.

He may say: "I made a mistake when I married you."


He's angry at you.
You've made mistakes.
You have poor marriage skills.

Here is a starting point for you to correct some of your mistakes !


Eliminate the LB of disrespectful judgments (DJ) in your marriage.
I am convinced you are a master at the "helpful" DJ.

Pepper-

My FWH says the same thing- he just started saying it a few months, and he never fails to ask it, every day. "What can I do for you today? How can I help you? What do you need?"

It has been one of the simplest, and most powerful things he has done to help us.

Teachergirl should pay attention.

This makes me very happy.

WPG, nice post.

I'd like to tweak one thing.

"I'm sorry you feel that way" .... Can sometimes feel like a judgment on the spouse's feelings. It can be interpreted as ~~~> "You should not feel that way" , even if that meaning is not intended.

It's better (safer) to say: "I understand your feelings."
Or, "I know you are hurting".

Those are less likely to cause more friction.
I know because, in the past, I've caused damage by saying: "I'm sorry you feel that way."

(((( WPG )))) <~~~ I KNOW you're hurting. I am rooting for you!

Can we back up a little bit?

Who was this man that you dated during the time you moved out? Did you know him prior to your moving out?

Thanks, Pep! Yeah, I was trying to think of good examples of validating someone's feelings without making DJs. And I've been where teachergirl is at - I made a lot of "helpful" DJs over the years. I went back and looked at my notes from my sessions w/JC and she had given me some good advice along the lines of avoiding DJs - Anytime I try to educate H, lecture him, give unsolicited advice, make �You should/We should� statements, �Why don�t you� statements (e.g., �Why don�t you want to give this a try?�) or �Don�t you know� statements...that I need to realize that basically what I am saying to him is, �Hey, stupid!�

Teachergirl,

I have so much I want to say to you but others are doing such a terrific job. I especially want to acknowledge WPG and Pepperband since they are helping me even as I am much further down the path than you.

Our situations are outstandingly similar. I will refrain from giving advice as the others are so much better than me. What I can offer is where I am now... 21 months from Dday

We are still together. His outbursts are less and his erratic behavior has disappated. He has made some positive changes in his life such has learning about Christianity and acknowledging an ongoing depression. He spends more time with the children and me.

He still brings up the affair, he still gets moody, he still gets mean. He still doesn't follow through on things and blames me for his problems.

For my part, I behave as I want my children to behave. I do not blame him for any action I take or choose not to take.

Often my kids will come home after doing something wrong with...the "he made me" or "she was doing it so I had to." I cut them off immediately and let them know...YOU choose your actions regardless of circumstances.

I am practicing the same with myself. If he is nasty and mean to me, I do not respond in kind. If he negelects to do something I ask, I do not withhold from him.

I tell him about my feelings and my life and my dreams. Sometimes, he chooses to engage and sometimes he ignores me. I tell him when he hurts me but I do not hurt him back.

I don't know if he'll stay forever...sometimes he says he will, he loves me...other times he says he is waiting for the kids to grow up and....even other times he mentions finding someone else who wouldn't cheat on him. I validate these feelings. I tell him I will fight for our marriage but I do not blame him.

You are looking too far into the future and trying to predict how he will respond....you just can't. Don't try to educate him. Just be the person you want to be.

He may see the changes and adust his stance, or he may never realize the changes. You can't control that.

I feel so free now because I have nothing to hide....not just the affair, I was always walking on eggshells...I still do sometimes but now I tell the truth and deal with the consequences... the same lesson I am teaching my kids.

Wow, this was longer than I expected. I hope you stick around.

Been there.
Done that.
I still have to watch my mouth.

@ sunnydaze